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FROM; m s AMERICAN BARKERS ASSOCIATION THE NEWS BUREAU George J, Kelly, Director A.B.A, Convention Headquarters Room ¥402-^0^, Statler Hilton Hotel Washington, D. C, Phone: Executive 3-1000; Ext. 1053, 1 5 1 0*- FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE TRANSCRIPT OF A.B.A. PRESIDENT KIMBRELBS PRESS CONFERENCE Sunday Afternoon, Oct. 6, 1963, Michigan Room, Statler Hilton Hotel, Washington, D. C. The press conference was held as a part of the 89th Annual Convention of The American Bankers Association, MR. KIMBREL: you here. I am delighted to see so many of It seems, during the year at one time or another, I had occasion to exchange glances and visits with most of you. I would not be rushing you for this occasion but they tell me that the Bears and the Colts are playing football this afternoon and those of you who are interested can pick it up over the Baltimore TV station if you don't keep me too long. Gentlemen, you can fire away. QUESTIONS Mr. President, you get around the country, all over in different states. What is the outlook for business? MR. KIMBRELs My observation is that business, generally, still has an optimistic appearance, coupled with some degree of caution as we move into the new year. I think that the manufacturers1 orders and the automobile 2 outlook all generally appear very satisfactory. The trend of employment appears to be relatively good. More importantly, with me, is the psychology of the feeling that I observe in that businessmen and bank ers generally, although we have been clipping along for quite some 32 months now, still have some degree of con fidence that we may not have any particular upsurge but, at least, the future seems to be rather optimistic. All along, I have detected still, though, a slight degree of caution. QUESTIONS How about interest rates? MR. KIMBRELs I am inclined to think that interest rates are likely to remain stable for the near future. I see no movement at the moment that would seem to indicate any substantial change, frankly, in either direction barring some other developments. QUESTION? Mr. Kimbrel, the question of bank underwriting of revenue bonds is a debatable one right now and it has been discussed by the Federal Reserve and also criticized to some extent by the American Bankers. Are you in a position to say how the bill was introduced? Where does the need seem to arise for bank underwriting of revenue bonds? 3 MR. KIMBRELs We gave a good deal of consideration to that particular bill when it was introduced. We recog nize that national banks already have the authority to buy and own revenue bonds. It seemed rather logical to us, after the discussion arose, that banks would be given the opportunity to underwrite, to deal in those very same securities that were eligible for ownership by the same banks. We felt that it could provide a broader market, with some degree of competition in the market and, in the end, develop a better market for the outlet and be in the public interest. g-± 4 QUESTION: Is there any body of opinion in your industry which is opposed to this and, if so, what are its reasons, and are they valid, in your opinion? MR. KIMBREL: I guess on any issue of that size, there would certainly be areas of differing views on its extreme need. Ibviously this would be limited to a relatively small number of banks which would avail themselves of this privilege in the event it were granted. So that, in turn, would be limited to a relatively small number who would be interested. There could conceivably develop in the smaller communities some individual bank, interested in local securities, which might for some reason have some minor difference of opinion. But, by and large, we have had no substantial difference of viewpoints insofar as the banking community is concerned. QUESTION: The state banks are also permitted to own these securities, are they not? MR. KIMBREL: Yes, they are permitted to own them. QUESTION: What is the difference? Why should the underwriting privilege be introduced just because national banks have the right to own these securities as well as state banks? Neither type of institution is disadvantaged by the present status, is it? g-2 5 MR, KIMBRELs No, neither is disadvantaged« By the same token, it would appear a little awkward, wouldn't it, that banks are permitted to own them, to put them in their portfolio, and yet they cannot provide the market the advantage of being able to trade and deal in them to broaden the market? QUESTION: They are also permitted to own corporate securities, aren't they? MRo KIMBRELs QUESTION: Rather limited though* I was going to ask you if you are saying that you can buy these bonds for their own portfolio for being able to deal in your underwriting* Do you object to the historical reason they were limited to buying for their own portfolio? I thought the reasoning was if a bank'- were underwriting an issue and the issue turned sourt that it was possible for the bank then simply to add it to its own portfolio and thereby put itself in a rather risky position* I thought this was one of the reasons that Congress in the thirties took away this underwriting power* MR* KIMBREL: On the contrary, I don't believe there were many revenue bonds in existence prior to the enactment of legislation in the thirties- The difficulties that came about at that time were because of difficulties 6 with corporate and foreign issues. As a matter of fact, this is a mode of financing that has grown up substantially since the enactment of the legislation, so I do not believe that the history of the legislation that precluded this dealing in them could pos sibly have had relationship to experience prior to that time* So w must also broaden this to suggest that the ones that would be eligible for underwriting are also the ones who are eligible for investment. You still have certain regulation as to the issues. It could not be just an operation in any revenue. QUESTION: Are you saying that there is no little or no support in the banking community for Chairman Martin5s warnings with respect to revenue bonds? PRESIDENT KIMBREL: I don't want to phrase it in that direction and I don't know that Chairman Martin is com pletely opposed to the idea of underwriting so long as there are certain — and I believe his new thoughts on this are if there were certain limits, certain latitudes prescribed that he might be more receptive to it. However, I want to say there are undoubtedly some people who believe that there should not be any bank's permission to underwrite them. QUESTION: When did Chairman Martin express these 7 new thoughts. Has he expressed himself since he appeared at the hearing? PRESIDENT KEMBRELs I donBt think he has indi cated that there would be any substantial disagreement with the whole idea even in the hearings. QUESTIONS He opposed the bill? PRESIDENT KXMBRELs As it was then introduced, yes. QUESTION? lation And he suggested that further legis be introduced to nullify the Comptroller's specific ruling as I read the accounts of that hearing? PRESIDENT KIMBRELs I am not at all sure that he has changed that part of his views at all* QUESTION? Mr* Kimbrel, I c®me in late. Do I understand that you favor bank underwriting of revenue bond issues? PRESIDENT KIMBRELs QUESTION: this: In the Yes, sir. Mr. Kimbrel, I would like to ask you South,which you come from, there has been a great deal of industrial bonds issued to bring in industry which would bfting in great tax exemption^ and all the other benefits that go with municipal bonds issued actually in the name of the company involved and, therefore, it would 8 seem that bank underwriting would encourage this sort of thing. Are you in favor of that, too? PRESIDENT KIMBRELs There you have a bond that be eligible for investment purposes by the bank and special benefit bonds are specifically excluded under the terms of the legislation. I would question very much even if enabling legislation were granted in that area and even if it were specifically spelled out, I question very much that the average bank would involve itself in any such under writing. QUESTION; Mr. Kimbrel, just to clear up one point, when you were asked did the ABA favor bond underwriting, were you speaking in the limited sphere of national banks or national and state banks? MR. KIMBREL; QUESTION: Because the legislation direct itself Beyond the legislation. MR. KIMBREL: OH yes, we would certainly expect that the state banks could and should have the same privilege, though I don't want to get into saying that I am telling any state what he ought to do. QUESTION: Mr. Kirabrel, there is a great deal of talk and feeling about a schism, if you will, between the state banks generally and within your Association perhaps, and a lot of ferment along those lines. I wonder what your vies of this is, whether you thinks it is a real conflict, whether there are real differences, and if there are, how do you think they should be resolved? MR. KIMBREL: I think it would f e less than o honest to suggest that there have not been these differing viewpoints. I think it is also something that existed since the beginning of the dual banking system, though and I rather anticipate that they will continue. a sign of progress. I think it is 10 I don’t see, on the horizon today, any differing viewpoints that are of any tremendous consequence or items that would cause any real difficulty with any association. QUESTION: Mr. Kimbrel, what are your views on fixed condition call dates versus the surprise dates that Mr. Saxon wants? MR. KIMBREL: I recognize the possible advantages that the Comptroller envisions. I recognize there obviouslyv would be some merit in what he suggests. Nevertheless, the supervisory agencies have right along known those banks that are, as you point out, window dressing. They are not ill-informed about the particular banks that are doing it. My personal views would be that the acquiring of the information, the processing it on the various electronid data processing machines and furnishing it probably outweigh the advantages of shifting the dates. I don’ under t estimate some benefits that would come from ita I don’t, personally, view it as a very substantial item. The end result would seem to me to be accomplished if constant call dates were observed. QUESTION: Mr. Kimbrel, Congress is considering giving savings institutions wider and greater lending power. 11 Do you have any thoughts on that? MR. KIMBREL; We have no objection whatever to these other financial institutions having the broader lending pov;ers if at the same time they are subjected to the same taxing requirements, to the same supervisory and regulatory branching and chartering, the same liquidity and reserve requirements and to the same conflict of interest. In the meantime, though, we feel that such special purpose lending institutions should be con fined to the field that Congress originally suggested. QUESTIONS Mr. Kimbrel, would you follow up on that same question? MR. KIMBRELs QUESTIONS Yes. Are you not really saying you are opposed to this bill? MR. KIMBRELs The bill in itself has no real objection to us as it is because it is so small that it would be of little consequence. It is, however, opening as far as we are concerned, a tremendous new field. It is the beginning of something that we feel if you are going to consider even this small change that the whole field should be broadened and considered and that decision made then. If you want an abrupt answer, yes. 12 QUESTIONS T he b e s t k i n d of answer, Mr* Kimbrel, savings and loans w e r e of the savings originally, formed as a p l ace for the small p u r p o s e Co n g r e s s granted tax exemption, y e a r s a small a m I correct, that the for the d e p o s i t i n d i vidual and for that these o r g a n i s a t i o n s c o m plete and since they grew to suc h a size in r e c e n t income tax w as placed a g a i n s t the group. D i d n ' t they a r g u e , a t the time that t h e y opposed the tax b i l l , t h a t t h e i r sole p u r p o s e w as to m a k e h o u s i n g loans and for this t h e y had a d e f i n i t e p a r t in the overall economy, h e l p i n g c o n s t r u c t i o n and so on and n o w t h e y are a s k i n g to go into c o n s u m e r loans. Is this y o u r p o s i t i o n or one of the reasons y o u oppose the b i l l ? MR* KI M B R E L s QUESTIONs W o u l d y o u c o m m e n t on that a little? MR. K I M B R E L s QUESTIONS Q u i t e w e l l stated. O f course, MR. KIMBRELs QUESTIONS Q u i t e w e l l stated. I d i d n ' t a s k the question. I can find no d i s a g r e e m e n t w i t h that. Mr. Kimbrel, h a v e y o u found that c o m m e r c i a l b a n k s h a v e b e e n going in for a c c o u n t s r e c e i v a b l e fin a n c i n g in a n y g r e a t e r extent than r e c e n t l y ? H a v e they inc r e a s e d that p a r t i c u l a r area of a c t i v i t y ? MR. K I M BRELs To be p e r f e c t l y h o n e s t w i t h you, I 13 c a n ' t answer. I d o n ' t know. T h e y are still field and they are d o i n g a job, b u t honestly, in the I d o n ' t know. I d o n ' t k n o w if there has b e e n a n y increase or not. QUESTION? I understand » *P 14 QUESTION: Are you still opposed to the granting of Federal Banks savings fcsnks charters? PRESIDENT KIMBREL: We lave not been convinced that any need whatever has been shown other than a few, there have not been any new ones established in the whole country in nearly forty years and some of those States that have permitted them have restrictions against any new ones. It is our feeling that the savings and loans to home owners is now being taken care of. We can3t believe that the Congress would be interested in creating any relatively new tax exempt organizations to compete in the field where the need has not been established. QUESTION: Mr. Kimbrel, how do you the proposed interest equalization feel about tax? PRESIDENT KIMBREL: We had some misgivings about it when it was originally pronounced but we conceded that if the Treasury and the Government 'felt that this indeed was an absolutely essential tool for the accomplishment of their purpose that we would interpose no objection. We prefer the decidedly over-direct controls. QUESTION: Do you have any comments on the balance of payments and exports problems and is the ABA doing anything about either one? 15 PRESIDENT KIMBREL: We are doing a tremendous amount of work, frankly, on both of them* The balance of payments particularly was almost under continuous study. We are not yet convinced that the trend is so significant as to indicate any improvement. We are very hopeful that the tax program might suggest some improvement in the area. In the meantime, we are going to continue our efforts to suggest that the Government give it * number one priority and that some of our military spending be adjusted to give consideration to that problem, to our foreign aid, and in turn then that the Government utilize its full resources to erase some of the discriminations in our trade programs with other nations to give us an improvement both in balance of payments and in our export operations. We also feel that the Government can exercise a good deal more initiative in helping the small businessman to cooperate and to participate in some of our export programs, QUESTION; Mr. Kimbrel, I understand your associa tion has favored the tax reduction but with a limitation on budget spending and that that has been eliminated from the House version of the bill. Do you your view on that ceiling of spending? think you might change 16 PRESIDENT KIMBRELs Well, we very much want the tax reduction. Nevertheless, we feel that it should most definitely be a fiscally prudent tax reduction. We believe that the President's statement, when a new budget is submitted that this would be given consideration. We are very encouraged by Chairman MillS of the House Ways and Means statement that the passage of this tax reduction measure would obviate the necessity of increased Federal spending. Accordingly, we are still very hopeful, and will continue to pursue the policy of encouraging our restraint on the Federal expenditures. QUESTIONS To go back to the question of balance of payments, there have been numerous suggestions that we should drop the 25 per cent gold reserve What is the stand ing of the ABA on that? PRESIDENT KIMBRELs Well, of course that involves itself so much with the man on the street views. The psychological effect, if I may word it in that manner, has been very difficult. I think most of us are agreed that probably it does not serve any particularly useful purpose other than mainly the psychology. We have not taken any vigorous views in any direction on that, though. QUESTIONS Do you believe it is important to get 17 the tax bill passed this year or do you think it will be all right if it goes over until next year? PRESIDENT KIMBREL: Well, obviously we would prefer to see it passed this year, I recognize that many things can happen in the meantime, but our own feelig at the momentmis that whether it is passed before the end of the year or early in 1864, that it most likely will be made effective January 1, 1964 so there again, though we are thinking in the long range benefit, the sooner the bill is passed, the sooner we are going to be able to have the long-range benefit. QUESTION? If the ceiling on spending is the thing that stood in the way of getting it this }ear, do you think the bankers would be inclined to forego that? PRESIDENT KI BREL: I would doubt it. That is purely speculation but I would be in doubt about that. My travels around the country seem to convince me that bankers are equally as interested in the Federal spending as they are in tax reduction. QUESTION: ized questions Mr. Kimbrels I have a sort of special In New Jersey there is pending a referendum for the issuance of $750 million worth of State bonds to take care of the State*s fiscal troubles and it would be paid off they hope with receipts from the Mew Jersey Turnpike five years and hence. This has been called silly by Governor Scranton of Pennsylvania, by the NewYYork Times ddiborially and by the executive committee of the New JerseyBankers Associa tion. Now I was wondering if you know about it and have any comment on it? QUESTION; Unfortunately I am not familiar with that situation and I can't give you an answer that I think would be very helpful. QUESTION; Mr. Kimbrel, what is the latest on the proposal to permit national banks to have branches within the 25-miles regardless of the state law? I have leard that Saxon wants such a bill as that introduced. Do you know, will such a bill be introduced? 19 MR. KIMBREL: Well, to say whether it will or will not be introduced is a little difficult to speculate, but the position of the American Bankers Association would be if it conflicts with the state law, then we would obviously have to oppose it. If the branching powers to be granted by and to national banks is to be greater than or different from that provided by state law, this crossing of state lines or metropolitan areas, or whatever it came into, then we would have to support the theory that the local states are in a position to know that* QUESTION: Do you know whether such a bill will be introduced? MR. KIMBREL: QUESTION: No, I do not* That stand was in the resolutions that you passed last year, was it not, Mr* Kimbrel? MR. KIMBREL: QUESTION: Yes. Mr* Kimbrel, almost twenty (20) Federal agencies here in Washington now stand ready to loan money to private enterprise. The latest in the news, of course, is the Area Redevelopment Administration. you have anything to say on this? Washington itself? Do Is this a trend within Is this negligence on the part of 20 private financial institutions? MR. KIMBRELs What would be your thought? It certainly appears to be a trend that continues as subsidized federal lending agencies continue to move into areas that we believe can and are being very well served by existing private banking. Obvi ously, in some of these areas we have some difficulty in competing when some particular government agency is able to borrow money at two per cent, turn around and lend this particular money to build a ski lift. Maybe at four or four-and-a-half per cent we find some difficulty in being able to compete. We feel that it is grossly irresponsible, and I do not believe that the Members of Congress intended that any type of operation of that kind should be permitted. I certainly do not believe that it can be accepted as an indictment of banking in failing to do the job. I feel that it is an operation that has grown up like Topsy and we will probably have to live with it for some time to come. QUESTIONS When you began, you talked about optimism mixed with caution toward the new year. What effect would the passage of the tax bill this year have on those attitudes? MR. KIMBRELs Well, possibly some of the benefits of the tax bill have been anticipated by business already. 21 I do not believe there would be a particular spurt in business, but there again I come back to the premise I suggested earlier that our concern is not nearly as much for the short-range as it is over the long period; that we believe the substantial benefit that would come would be from the long period rather than immediately. I do not anticipate that there would be any substantial upsurge with the passage of the bill. 22 QUESTIONS I will put that question in a reverse frame if you don't mind. You suggested that we should be cautious about the first of the year. I assume you mean this is getting to be an old recession? MR. KIMBRELs QUESTIONS Not an old recession. I mean an old recovery. on my mind in this question. I have recession Would it not be most unfortunate if this tax bill were put into law at the start of a recession where it merely helped tolerate a recession instead of encouraging or stimulating a real expansion? MR. KIMBRELs are quite logical. Well, yes, I think your conclusions Nevertheless, I would hope on this that the Congress will demonstrate their usual wisdom in arriving at some satisfactory conclusion long before we start that recession. QUESTIONS Mr. Kimbrel, do you feel that the wave of new national bank charters in the last year or so is a healthy situation? MR. KIMBRELs I am sure that there are areas that have needed many of these new national banks. Some of the others, only time will be able to register whether the judgment was good or bad. somebody, some group. It is always easier to second-guess I would think that these have been 23 based on side judgment and that they are determined based on facts that justify the issuance of the charter. I can only hope now that they will be completely successful, that it would be most unfortunate for banking if we were to have any difficulty. 24 QUESTION? Do you or any other leaders of the ABA have any appointments with the President this week? MR. KIMBRELs QUESTIONS No, not to my knowledge. Mr. Kimbrel, if we can just come back to the tax question and try one other thing which seems we didn't quite get to, is it your concern that if the tax bill is not passed within the next few months that we may very well go into a recession? MR. KIMBRELs No, I wouldn't want to say that because, in considering all of the factors that contribute to the continued rise, if we had been looking to this a year ago, we might have suggested that it could not possibly last this long, but it seems to have baffled many of us and continued to go, so I believe that there are many factors. Getting back to my other comment, my observation in traveling around the country, businessmen and bankers still feel that the outlook is reasonably good. So, I don't think that we are likely to have any leveling off or downturn particularly anytime in the reasonably near future with or without the tax bill. It might come sooner than we think if we do not have some adjustment of taxes, which I think we all recognize is very necessary, some complete overhaul and some reduction. 25 QUESTIONS Mr. Kirabrel, can I come back to the question I asked you before? I just want to ask you a hypothetical question in your capacity as a banker. If any state--not New Jersey--is faced with a broad-base tax, does not have one but is faced with the necessity of enacting one, do you think it is justified in going into debt for three-quarters of a billion dollars plus another one-half billion dollars in order to avoid a broad-base tax? MR. KIMBRELs I think it would be better for me to utilize the experience of my own native State with which I would obviously be more familiar. We used revenue financing for roads, bridges, and hospitals and paid probably from one-half to three-quarters, to some speculation as high as a full percentage point interest premium because of the revenue financing. Taking the total financing in which we engaged and calculating it over probably 15 or 18 years, or maybe slightly longer than that, you can readily appreciate that that runs into a terrible amount of interest that our state is paying for the privilege of saying that we are debt-free. We are taking a new look at it, and I would think that our own state is now looking to general obligations in attracting the most interesting interest rates that we possibly can to handle our financing rather 26 than, shall we say, the backdoor method. So I think it would be preferable to face the issue squarely and to finance it with something that would have taxing power back of it. QUESTIONS Do you have either a sales or an income tax in Georgia? MR. KIMBRELs QUESTIONS more question? We have both in Georgia. Mr. Kimbrel, may I ask you one When you run around the country talking to bankers, when the question of employing Negroes comes up, does the question of lending money to Negroes also come up, and could you summarize the reactions of you and your colleagues? MR. KIMBRELs This comes up frequently. I think the lending is such that we could be perfectly honest in suggesting to you that I have observed at no point anywhere in the country where there has been any difficulty in the lending. I do not think there have been any different standard applied. When the appraisers go out and make an appraisal, they apply the same set of standards on loans to every individual regardless of their color. 27 With regard to employment, some problems do exist. I do net think they are confined to any one geographic area, but I am extremely delighted to see as I have traveled around that in those areas where problems do exist and where progress is being made that, frankly, bankers are right in the midst of it and have been very close to it and have provided a great deal of the leadership in some of the progressive movements that have taken place. QUESTIONS Has the ABA been doing anything or is it about to do anything to help bankers resolve this problem of discrimination in employment? MR. KIMBRELs The ABA is doing a continuing study and no one is more aware of that than you. But this gets into an emotional field where the ABA has difficulty in dealing with any prescribed recommendations, just as we would if we were to get out and tell this bank or that bank that it should pay this white color worker a certain salary and that one a different one. You are getting into an area where about all the ABA can do is develop information and send out certain facts, but we certainly cannot make any recommendations in the area. QUESTION? study-- You said something about a continuing 28 MR. KIMBRELs QUESTIONS Yes. in g e t t i n g information. tell us a little b i t m o r e about that, MR. KIMBRELs Can you please. By that I m e a n we are o b s e r v i n g the d e v e l o p m e n t s t hat o c c u r in a ny p a r t i c u l a r area w h e r e there m a y hav e b e e n c e r t a i n progress and w h a t c e r t a i n g r o u p s are d o i n g to improve, as an e x c h a n g e and we are m a i n t a i n i n g t his source if o t her b a n k s are i n t e r e s t e d and r e q uest it. THE PRESSs T h a n k y o u ver y much, Mr. Kimbrel. . c.The Press c o n f e r e n c e w a s c o n c l u d e d at 2;45 p . m . .. # # # # # # # # # # #
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