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REPO :R T
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COMMrr1u OF THE ~ENATE
7
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T&STD10NY TAKEN BY T.BE OOMMr1'11:JL
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IN PIVE VOl..1U ll'ES.
IDKBEBS OP Tl[B 00VICITTE&
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48TH
,C oNP·P PM.,
HENRY W. Bl~AYKi, of New Hampshire, f!a,m■t'WI
WllJ JAM MAHONE, ofVirginia;
WARNER MILLER,,.,of New 'York;
NELSON w~J.LD,R IC~ ot B'h ooe IaJ.na.i
THOMAS IL l30WEN, ofco ·o rade;
JAMES z . GEOBGEi, of Mmiseippi;
·WJLK:DlSON CALL, of 'F lorida,;
,J J.HES L. PUGH, of Alabama;
.JAMES B1 G · OOMF~ of llaryland..
m
VOLUME II-Testimony.
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:, W A.SHINGTON':
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· 90VBBNJfEN~ PRINTING OP"BIOIJL,
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TES 'T .IMON 'Y
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THB BERATE C'OMllrlTE.E ON lmUC.ATIOlf
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WILLIAII. WBtHil
sworn and. examined.
By Mr. CAI&:
- ues· -t-:o~·n - W.··h· :t- 1·a· vo··-nrooo
·-. :upa
, ,If:•:1.•o·nt
... _·n s~~- I am
- a· boiJ
· a~• Aft.m. ,-,,_ :J:::L
Q
monly called a p•u ddler.
... ·
Q,. How loo· have you been in that 'b usineaal-A. I have worked in
·t h.e mills-since 1862.
Q. That i::1 since you were ·q uite a,boyt-A. Yea, 1&ir~
_
Q. And ·t hen y-o • hav,e, grown u.p in fhe. buaiuess I-A. From tbat
time I have, been contiooally worki·n ~ in the ·m ills..
Q. · · ~ you eonaected oftie-ially with. an_y organization or association
of workingmen t-A. ~ e~, si'r; I -m connected wi'th the Amalgamated
A.saoc,-1ation of Iron and Btee W orke:r s, an.d I am at present a member of
the board of irost,ees.
Q. 'W bat other pos1·bion do yon hold ·i n ·t hat aaaooiation·l :-A. Ko-position. except as a ·trustee.at tbe pr-esent tim&
Q. Are ,roa not ·tbe presidenteel ~etl-A. Yes, _ir; bnt I do no·&·take,
possesaio,n-,o f the offi.ee until some tim.e in Oetobe·r.
~
Q.. B·nt _you have been e,lected president of that 88IIOCiat"on and will.
take your office in Oeto,ber.. _Now, what is. the condition ,o f the laboring
people, skilled :and unskilled, in that· pq;r sait, i,o res_pect to their sar~
roundings, their ma ·,n er of li·vin.,g , .an,d . the tftdeqaaey of' their eompensati.o n to, provide for them comfortab.Jyt-A. Te Isome ,extent th.e ir eoodi.taon is goodt a,n d to some ex·tent i.t is not. Aa a rule, we ltave a BCale
~
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of prrces,
au d.. we govern omaeJ\;"89 aee.ord'log·1y d. unog
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Jue ~ear; d:-....
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ent branches of the wo~rk.-~ i:v.l'og ddferent ·wages per tou., some more
a d some less. Some b.ran.ebea are more skilUbl t·han o·thers, and ,p t
ill,
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RELlTIOJf8 BET'WEEN LABOR AlfD CAPITAL .
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A .. We11, on the aver&g~. in certain. sections ·t is -very fair, and iD
other sections it, may not be fair" What I mean by fair and nufair ia
thi,s : Where a mill. 1-un:; ev1e cy day· men 1c aD, mak,e a better living than
where the miH does ·not, rnn every d11y. It ,d e·p enda, upon tb.~ _ome~
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of eoorse, the meu. employed in a looali·t y __ h.ere ·t he mills mo replarly
reeelv e a bet-te.r oompeneati.on, that is, t•AY mak·,e m.ore ,money during
tb,e year than othe·r meu who· :a·re •employed where, the mills, are more
idle.
Q"W As a gen.oral rule is i ·t ·c ns,t omary to ran. the mills only a part of
the year, or the . hole y,e ar.-A.. Some firJD8 ro.u onl,y a part of the.1ear,
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otbe,n;, mo thelll lll 0re stead·i ly.
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Q. You cons,i der the wages ·v ery fair, then,. for the work really don-e t,A . Yea, sir·; io view of the prices of iron. at the ·p,r-esent ti-me.,
Q.. Give us an idea of the p,ric.es paid ·t ili the :m en.
-:PHE W.A.G ES O . IBON-WOBKEKS.
A, B,oilers, receive t5Ji0 a, ton, or 82.50 ca1-d.--rate,.
Q. At that r.lte· how much ·w ill tbey m . k,e per ,d ayt-A. The . mak,e
fi.T•e heats it_-the boiling· ,1epartme·n t for a double turn and six :heats a
Bing·le tarn, and the 'beaters make ,e ight on each turn.. ·'fbe. heatera
·work ·t he irou t'bat the pudd.l.e rs have m,·de and make it into tbe finished, bar. Io som . . milia tbe-y c.h arge 'h eavier than they do io others,
bu·t the aTerage ,vould be het.w,een 1:3.50• and 14 ,8 day for .a fair hand
10 'the puddling departmen.ti
The forem.e n genera11;,- .a verage ' 25, but
they ha e 't o P•Y their· be per ont, of tha·t . The balance rema ·os to th,e
boiler.
Q" What wi'll those ra.tea ebsble them 't o a;v erage. per month 1-A.
'W heo. tbey work a double turn they work eleven turns in t,wo weeks;.
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Q.. Wha't will your wages tu,r u on·t to you ·by tbe m.ooth 1-A. Well,,
I don'' t beli.e ·,e that you - can g-o mo:r e than about nine, mout s in. the
7ear in a mill tbat, rans very·-steady,., Some, m1l1s ruu less ·a ud some
again a lit ·1e, m.o m tb:an that :; 010ie months, however:, woold 'be the
· ·-·. · ··· a ·
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averar,e•
run
ppr year
a ve13 st.ea ·.'·..:Y. m1
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Q .Aud t3,.00 a day, 30n say·, would. be t'b,e average wages of a pmldler t -.A . It. might ·r each a li.ttle higher ·t h.a n that where, ·t hey charge
hea ier.
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. . en you e__ y ch.1t1uv a . _ay is a ·f,a·1r. aver.ages-J.&ll'
a:verage •OH the lli.00 a.too bwd s..
- __
Q.. Wlaat wooltl be a fair .a,v ei~ge, potting both togetllerl What~
a s,kiHed JH1dd)e:r reaKOuabJy ex,pect to recei.ve at the p,r esent, 'r -&te of
pay, on an a . ,erage, .as the, mills . on I-A. H,e could not ,e1xpeet any
more uuller p,~esent clrcu.m staoees. The scale is made for ,one year an,d
tbere is, 110 change ,du.rh1g the, year~
Q. But I u.udet~.taud y·o u tos~y tb,a t OB,e mill will ,d o more t'han anothe.r and that the com1iensat1on will vary in that way t-A. Yea, sir.
Q. Iu the ease of a D1ill ru.uuiur; s,teadily what will be, a man's wages
in that de·p artment on an ave·r age 1---A,, 13-JiO a day..
~ What will 1't amou1at, to per montlt-l3.5U for twmity-six: days. .I
anppose, wiH give 1.t t:._A. They could not work twenly-aix dasa a
mouth; ·tbey oould on·ly ·w ork ·tweo.ty ..t ,w o day&
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RELaTIONS BE1
-Tw,, -.B ER LABOR A.ND CA'P ITAL
Q.. Them the men ·would,011Jy· get '3~60 a
day fo · twmity . two ,a ayat1
A. ·y es, sir..
Q.. And that, yo:1 say, wo·oJ.d be the average wages ·t -A. A 1vetty
fair av,e rage.
_
Q. Is that a reasonable com.pensation I Does.it enable- a.man to live
eomfortab,l y t-A. It·a man got w·o rk all the ,ye.a r round it would,, bu·t
the bnsio.ess is very laborions and the men that work at i.t have· t.o Jive
on su.·bstant"iaJ food, and in ,con·oeetion with. ·t ha·t tbey must make a little mor~
Q.. ls that, the reason ·w hy the1r wagea arc. Jarge,r than t:.b e wages of
others f-A .. _N,o t exactly tha.t. Tbe r-ollers,are supposed to• · ~-ve miore;of
the responsibility oo them, and ·t heir wages, will average a little more
tor -tb a·t re.a.son•.
Q. ~he rollers, t.b.en, .a re. the highest pai,d !-A. Yea; that is,, they
1
mak,e·the most.
Q.. Wbat ,d otbey ·m alre!-A.. J ,coold not tell you t'hatexactl,y.. Som.,e
of the niiHe are 0 f greater capaeit) than others, bu.t the mJIPn ave.rage
from '15 to 86, a11.,d perhaps f7 a d.a y. But bere is onl,y 011e rolle·r at
,eac·b mill, 1:ba·t 1s at one tra'io; .an,d .lie bas a number of wen und•e r him
that be has cb&rge oi..
~ Then h.e i: ,a kind o.f soperio'tendent!--A. Be workahi:mself,. bnt
the ,s ame, ti:m e he has ehar:1?8 ut· these.mie n. under him.
Q. ·w .b at otber cla ses of woTkingmen &re tbPre in this businea. ~
.&id.es ·t'bose ,you ha:v,e enumerated 1-A.. There are, we heaters and tile
:roll-bands. Q~ What d·oes. ab.eat-er get t-A,, F-or a certain brand of 'iron. 10 cents
·• ton. Som.e, get m:o·rn for wor:k such as sbeet~iroo an,d 111ilate-·iron..
Q. What does that rate yield .a mau. ·t -A. They generally ave.rage 7j
toua a day,.
Q. ls that very· MVPm laborf-A. Yes,, ,s ir; _,·eiy e:xbaust~-;; ,:.
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Q. Does i~ require _a11y gr~t dejtree of skill f -,A . Oh, ye&
Q. Then the :man has to be:.a tra.ined, skilled laborer·f..-A. o·h, cer'"
tainly; a man. could not go to an:y bran.ch o-t· the wo_k in a rr,1111g.... · ill
an<l do it unless h•e bad got some know·l edge or ex.p erienee hel,o re he
went there by· workin_
g at, iti
.
Q. How d.o on regard ·t hat rate of wages; 70 cents a ton t-A. W ell,
.I tbiu·k that at the present pri-ee.of iro·n i.t ·i s obou·t fai.r•.
Q.. Yoo think that that rate of 1~a.y will enable a man t,o live eomfor·t ab,l y w·i th b.Js family, do :v·on, particolarl3r on·t iu that ·r ~,g ioo of oo,u utry
·,vb.ere reu'ts are lower tbt1.n they arefa.r tlier eas·t !-A. Tbe rents in the,
city of' P .itt.sbnrg:h are .mid.d ling high; outsi(le of ·t he ,ci.ty limits the,-·are
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not.
Q. They are ·nothi'Dg 'l ike as,1i:i gb .a s the rent.s in t'be: ,e astern ,c ities, :1
suppose , ,.:_A.. But,the easte,r o mauo'factorers do not p,v·those prices in
a11 •ihe, mills. Tb,e easte,r n m en have an ad,.,a:ntage. Their :food .m ay
be,as expeos,ive, but 'tbeir clothing is a ,:CMMI deal cheaper ouit t·his w.a y.
1
DESI BABLE LEG:1 94~IO'N·.
Q.. Is. t ere a ytbing special which you .d,e sire to suggest in the way
of legidation or otherwige, for the;'improveinen.t of ·tbe cond·ition of the
workingmen in that husJn~s t·..........A. Yes, sir; there ca-n be ,so,m·ething
4o,ne ·b,y 1eg/1slatn•u. D~ring last, winter I .' as a, member or the legi•
·1atu-1.- of Pennsylvania,., a·u d several law·s, were passed there. ·t hat are of
benefit to the wor'kio_gmeo, eppecially tbe Ja,w i'n regard to convict coatract labor and th.e m:iniug la;w•
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Q. Those laws are satis.fac,tory ·to the people, that you :represent~ an,
t:h ey 1- .·• . W -e ll, the eon · ict contract labor law· is. not as satisfactory
1
as i.t migb't be. The minin,g la.ws aoo,in regard to securi.ng ventilation
for , be 'miners, to, give the, m'iners an op,p o· mnity to hav-e. better air in
the min.es.
Q. Tben. 'those are Ja·wa, desi,g ned 'for, the p:r eservation of' life and
health t-A.. Yes, sir.'.
__ _
Q. Yon ,d on't earei I BD.p·pose, to state,_'the apecific, p·rovi;sions of those,
law ·.1 A~ Th.e y will only become eft'eoti'"'e ,a t a certain tim,e, and until
'that tim,e, ·we are unable to say jus,t what tbei.r :lfee·t will be"
,Q. .Bow,e v, r·,., yon say tbat is legi9,J.a·tio-n w·hieh. h,as been, adopted b.y·
the State pf' Peuus,ylmnia1in response to the de,mand ,of the working
1
people t-A. Yes, sir.
Q1 And, in. the fo·rm demanded ·b y the represen.tati .· es of tbe working
J)eo
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Q. · . ·'hat else is, there i.o 'tbe1way ,o f rem-edia1 measures that you can
t:Jugg1es:t .I- A. In r gar,d to the truck sys,t e·m,I they had,a bill which they
vt re trying o passl bu·t it fail.e.di 'I.b e workingmen d ·· ired that the
truck syst~m. s'ho 1ld be aboli:sbed and a pay system esta'b lisbed re11oir ..
ing tbait tile ·men shod)d be paid every two week~ . and paid ,· n United
States m.on~y·" That bill passed one house 'bu·t failed ·to pass the otiher.
Q. And your, ·peop,le ,s till d,e sire thei pass.age of that ~ill t-A.. Yea,
sir; for 'Various reasous. There ar~ meu ·i n that pa.rt of the. oon.n tr1
hat get,pai,d only once a mo:oth, :aud t'hat have to d.eal in the emplOl"enJ'
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stores.
f s man goes to w,o rk on the first d.ay of one m,o nth he will
ha,ve to work until the third Tttesd,ay (I thiu.k it is in some places,) i'n
the fo,U.o win,g 'm oot'h befo-r:e he receives:· any p ·:,.. That is nearly se:v _o
week.s. Bethrn that ti1n,e, aniv·es the men wiJI haive bru:1, of oomse, to
"' t he ·t1- ore, and.·. t b
-,.· e · a-ges 111
., th
- eing,
~
. ~o h-,··1- gh· as m
d.e aI , 10.
, _ose p ·1·aees no~t b
others, it u -ually tak,e s ev·e_
r y ,dollrir· that a man ea-:m s to pa,- hie bills
in -the sto,r:e, by the time, ·pay•d· y aniv·es,, and oonset1,ue.n tly Ile 11ever
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m.a kes one cent advance in tbe direction of a , better oooditiou.
Q. Then, tliat law is, desig0ied to ,r,equ:ire t'he r,aym·· D't of t.be men in
money, and .a t, .' hort. int.ervats,. every ·t wo w,e ,a, . ·· Oll .s ay T-A. Yeslf ;s ir..
Q. Are there any, other pro:,~Wou,s in tbe law ,d esigned to cany that,
object into effect 'l :......A., Yes.
Q. Whait, other sng,ges.tious have you, to make. in regard to an)"' form
of action, le.Q'islat1ve or, otherwise, ·for the benefit of the wor:k iog people
that y·ou re11resent 1
,A NATl:ONA.L B.U RBAU OP LABO.B ,S TATIST'I CS.
A. To -e stablish a. oatii0n1al bare.an of stat1sti.es. The-re is such. a bureau in the State o,f Peo118:J lvauia now, wbicb bas wo:rked W'e ll., It ool~
lects informatio:o fro,m the various brauches of labor :i n the State, and
distributes,that information in i.ts reports.
Q. T h.e laboring: ]Jeople generally in yourtrad.e ,d esire som e acti,on on
the part ,of the Go·. ·eroment loo,king _to the establis,bmeU't of a bureau of
ind uatrial ,s tatisties1, I believe t-A. ·y es,! sir,
Q..
tbat des1 - · very genera{l amona them 1--A. Almost nuaui'mooa.
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I ·have nev,er h.earitl a dhJseuti.ng voice ye·t in re.-rdnl to it.
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Q . 'W hat 0th.e r 'l egislation do yon thiok would be. desirable 'f or t·h e
benefi~ _t-lf tbe workiu~ cl~sses 'T'- A.. Well, .I conld ~,~'t ,s ug_g~~ a~ytbin\g
more JllSt now,. There have, lweo so many suggested th.at if we, could
carry ·. ve·o a few of ·t hem rn,to effect it. would do grea't good.,
QI I am ,a sking uow only abont t'bose. which have a-ssumed. a dein·ite..
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
5
RELAn•O'lf9, BETWEEN LAB.O R A.HD ,C AP) rA.L .
rono in your assoeiation-tbose .measorea, that have been talked ,a bout
to bav,e d,0·ne
aa, a meaus.or·affording relief' from. t'b.e e·r i·ls, 'that the wo,rk1ogmen no
nffer" .D o you tllink that ·t 'h
. ose measures that y.on. ha·v·e sn.ggested.
are, all that your association at pretien.'t think- desirable t-A. As
far as t.hey .h aiv-e gone in that line they are s.ati · factory; but certainly
·t he)' desi1·e to ba,,. .e improvements. m.ade in other directions if' they see
a ,chance o avi:n_g the laws properly carried out,. The great trouble is
·t hat wbe·n there i,s a la·w tbere is ·n o one to enforce it in many cases,
.a nd the work·i og cl.as~es g:e11 .ral1y canuot en-foroo it tbemsel .es, and
nd agreed upon a . something that it would be d.e sirable
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eoo,s eqn,e n·t l,y tb · law i .' often evaded
Q. llow wouJd l"•on. remedy that f,- A. By· Ja,b or organizing aod, educat1n;g the me·mbers. o.f'" tbe organiza·t lons np to tha·t point, so that when
a law ia e ·. atletl they· ~an .aet in ha.rm,Om)~ to stco.r e its enforcemeD'tii
Q .. Tbat is a V'e ry wi,s e mode of action-by briugiug an 1ntellig~n·t po,~
lie,opinion to bear upon the. tribunals chaiged with the exec:utio.n, of ·t he
law·;, t.bat ia. the, idea, 1s ·• t not !----.A .. Yes, .~ir.
Q~ Then thi·re is_ no form of iegislat1ve a"Ction w·b ich yon desire in ,con .
.nectio.o wit:b that ,,_ ,Al! No,, ~tr.
Q:. ln other word.a,, yon mean tha:t yon. want an or·g anizatto wbieh
will er; . atet~ pubbc opioiou ,v hic.h will eoabl e.· so·u to hold a jud_ge respo s1bl,e ·fur .any unreasonable Judgment or for failin.g to execote ,or,
carry out .the Jaw I
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F■XECUTED,•.
LA,\\VS POK THE BENEFIT OP ~HE WOBXIN'·GMEN NOT
A. Ye,. , sir~
·Y oo see th,e re is a certain class of unskilled wo,r kingmen
·wh,o neve-r ha"7e an,y power to have, laws enforced whieb eon ·- m tbem,
an.d they ar,e the people th.ll·t are, gene.rail.. mos.t imposed upon. Laws
have bee,n passe ·.· · or th1e, beue·fit of the wor:kin.g people, but,·they, ha.ve
uot.been generally carried oot,, a.n,d, aa.I ha . ,e said, v,e ry often the ·work~
io1t·mcc ba;ve no n1.e aos of ba,·iu a tbem enforced.
,Q. We shall be glad to h.e,a r any other suggestions tbat 1~00 may ha;ye
to make on this general sobjeet,-A. ·.-: ,ell, as I hav,e sai.d before, ·t he
t'bi·n gs that ba"-e been. sugg-es.ted. here alread,J ' are perfectly in ~mony
·w i'th our .. i ws gen, cr-auy, an.d w,e ·. ould like to see tbem carried out)
and to see, whether, by sn.c h m.ea,n s the working cJ:assea wonld not be,
pu:t i'n a better :positi.on tb.a.n 'th.ey are in now" A ·t tbe, .sam,e timre, of
w. -:e
. not e:,mi!(l ·t-.•·
e· d.·o,n't 'Want ..,.n . do DA.,
,........,~.1i.:u;n;1, . ~ a~o
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Q" Hav,e
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to tbe importati.on
of labor fru1n ab.r oad o.odcr contract-skilled. or onskilled labor t-A.
We have no ohject1on to hiborcomln·g ·b ere,, ltut we d,oobj,e e:t to its belog,
Imported to take the place,. · of ,e itizens of thi ·•. coon.try. \Ve.d,o not tbiuk
It is right toimpor,·. 1•1bor from tore~@ countries to su.pers• .de theAmer~
'J"On any ,s111g·g,estio,na ·t o, make in regard
1
lean wor ·ingmau ..
Qi ,v.b,11t is 't he difte,ren100- in e.ffect be··- ween importin_g labor· and its
oou,ing voluutaril,y ! -.. ·. ~ 0b.,, there is s gren·t d1ilere-'ue&
Q,. I know there i,s. a ,flift"erence 1u fact iu tbe manner of its comin.~ ,.
bot :in effect,, does , ot a ma , who eom,e s b re volttnta.rily as trntcb 111pe·r
Bede an Am,e rican laborer as does a nia11 w:ho- is i:m potted T-~ But,
when they are. brou,gb.t h · re they are brooght for, that 11urpose; while
on the oth . r band,1when ihe·v oome, ·v o u11.tarily,, ,Yon can 1d,o sou11!:tbiug
·w ith them ; y·o.n. can ed.ncate. them- But when th~y are 'b rought h.ere iu
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V·
·1be way· that baa been described to you by other· w1tne&SeB yo·o eannol
educate them untU a , 0011s'"derable time has elapsed,. and in the mean
1
while the .American wo.rki1.1gman has suffered a great deal from their
1
oom~~~L
Q.- Those w'hom yon rep,reseot, as I understand you, have no o-bjeo,.
ti-ob. to the vo,l nntacy immigration here of' people fro·m any country. --A..
No , 18ir.
Q., I have no other special ,qoestioa1s IO ask you, unless you eao. give
·n ,s ..some.addition.al fac't.s i.n r-egard. to the general eoud ttioa of the peop'&
engaged in the different trades, their mode of life, and the aoffleienoy or
1osuftieiency of their wages to gi~e them. a oomforta,b le, ,s npport.-Ai
OD.mi.de of the ,branches tha·~ I ha·Vre worked ,.in I eoold n~,t _say ·v~r.,
10iuch, becao-. I ha·ve not, ,;1.ven mooh .attent10,o to any of the 01ther:.
trades~
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ht·- .a..
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.
Q_., V.a..011 )-,."tve 1n
. 11r...,;.,
·- es, ar.
Q. Do yon. eo·n slder tbe ge:n.e ral condition of the people engaged m
the trades .and. wor.k.i:u.g in the factories, the~ as ".fa'v,orab'le and comfonabl ·· i0oes l'- A. I.n ·.ome braocbee 1t m · y be so regarded,. The un~
a.kiDed .l aborers of Pitt bn.rg·h often ·a re not employed all tbe year round,
.. oond..,t
_. 18
. no t.· so g ood
. t . o.f. those w h_o recetftl
. ·
an,d o ..•· course ·t·h•e1r
1~100
·-~•· aa t,1.ill&
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steady ,employme·n t..
Q.. Well is their eondition positively bad 1-A~ In. the, winter
1.t is.
-
mon.tb■
,Q. Gene·raHy·,. or· in exooptfio·n al eaaes f-A. It ,depends on the con,d i
tion of the market generally.
,Q. Putting as;ide tb.e question o,f the coodi.t ion of the market.,,is there,
or .has tberie, been a good deal o,f want ao.d destitution amoo.g those peo~
pie. a:t any season of ·t he year durin.g ·t he last. sev,eu. seam t--A.. ._· ·ell, I
could not say exae_ll,y tb it there, was a great deal of waut among 'the,~
Q. You tliink, th:eo,, tha.t as a general rule they· ar-e not 1n absolute
want at~ seaaon of tile year t-:A. Not in that section.
1
(1JDLt) L ,A DOJL
nAAf.. to
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Q ~ In
. ·, respwu
-~- ~ cb"ld;_:__ _· .Ia . · r, 1s ;tL.u.ere any part·1coJ'-._ ar en
,. a,t ,req·m.re.1
examination. and 'the • ·pplication of a rem.-e tly t•~ A. Ob,, ).,88~ · do n.o l
tbio·t . that children. sbou.ltl be introdaeed into ny wor:k s on:til thq
reaeb .a eertain age, say fro,m tw Ive to fourteen~
,Q. What is the ·p ractice .in t·hat re _·p eet now t-A.. They bring ·them
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there into the glass- ou,ses at eight, ni:ue aod ten. years of' age.
Q.. Aud you tl1ink there should be Jegis]a'tion to prohibit those children working in factories before, the age of twelve. years!1-A.. Some,..
tbi.n,g lik,e that.~
Q. Bow·wonld y,oo do 1n. cases w·he:re they have notb:•nfr to eat unleaa
they work ·t -A. \~1'eJ'I, if th.e parenta_wore p'laeecl in snch a positio~
tbat ·t bey could. ha,'\; e a f·a ir rem nu .· ration for t-heir o·w n labor t'bey would
be, glatl to p·ro id.e fo·r their· eh1ldreo.,
Q. Yes, but would 3-ou. .let tbe children s,tarve until ·t he par~nts go&
plaeed io that 1,ositiou I-A.. No,, sir. I ·would, ha,v e the Government;
clothe ·t hew ~nd 1>rov1de lbr thetn .he,re it was .necessary.
Q Yoo tbiuk,, then, that ,,Le.ne:v~r a man is u , ble to provide for 'h ia
children, ·i.ustead ol le: ting· them go into a facto;ry the poblio a.bonld ed"'
oeate tbe111 aod take care: of ·t hew ~A. Y , s ; and if those• children.
w:e,re kept out or thoSI! th~to1·ies u1,, tu a · . rtaio a.ge r,ou see tbere ·w ould
be rnO're ~u1p,lo3m,e nt -for o.lde1· pc.ople, an,d the.v ·wo11ld get better' oom.p ·nsatio,u. anti would gen.eraUy be .able to provi,de for their fam,ilies.
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B'E·L ATIONS :e .E T'WE.SN LABOR AllD CAPITAL.
Q. 8appD88.that a,m&n has .a large family and ~ye, '' :I oannot feed
aud elolbe. my ehildl'leD unless I pot tbe·m into the.- .f a0tory," and. yoa.
aay th,a t be shall not put them. into the faotoey, and prevent it-that,
J ou. say, will increase your compensation and hiseompeo _a.t1on so,·mrurJi,
'b ut wi lit increase bis compe·u · a.tion in p.r oportion to the number of
ebildren be bast-A. Well, no,, not in that ease; butsuchioatancea,are
very few . .
Q.. You think that such a a:w w·onld have a teodeoey to relieve your
people generally of 'the e·vils, ,of which they eo111plain ~A. ·y ea, air.
1
TBB ·a :otJBS OIP LABOR SHOOl,D 'B B BEDU,QED.
t~
Q. ~ t, have yon to say in NSpeL~ the ho·u n of labor !-A. Well,
we thin ·. that . he boom.of labor· should be reduced.
·
Q,. How· much t-..· . Our mem.b ers. io thie. ·rolling-m1U _, could not.veey
well do i·t, but o;otside of tha·t branob we believe that it migb·t , be ,BO
·maioaged. · bat the boors of l,a hor could 'b e ,c urtailed..
Q. Yon tb1nk i.t impractieable in that bmncll 'because of the nature
0 f the basioess, I suppose,t~A .. Yes, sir.
_
Q" 'Then your own idea 18 t- at differeo , eoniploym,e.n.t s have ,different
• t 'ha t . respect, ·wL""
. . . . ev·aded'
A
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uich-. ca· not , .w
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....
QI. I: don.' t know o'f' any other questions th.at 1d,esi.re, to, ask, but ii
•ytbi'o,g else occurs,to yoa that y on <lesire tu,eab.mi:t,yon maf' state.it.A. I don't th.ink of auy·t hing else just now.
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IMPOBT'E D L ..&.BOB AGAffl.
By the OeAmXAN' :
Q• .Abou·t thi -. ·i mported labo,r of which you epei.ak,, you make a dia. t"'100 UIS t_ween ·t ·h-,a t· w h': 1e
• h- 1s 1mpor
..
•
t me
- :· aud th
- _at- w b'"'.tc h. eomeR h' ere 1n
the way of voluntary immigration T-A. Yee, sir., ,G e·otlrd,Jly tbia labor
that. ·is impo,r ted is of' a lwl. quality, aod g00d. w·orkingmeo, I don't believe, will I ·t t.bemseJ,~es[ be imported., It is the scuff, the, bad. specimene.of 'the working olaaees, ·t hat are usually selected to be, im.ported.
Q. They are not 1selected, .I ,U P.P O®, because ·the;y are bad, bat ·~
eause. tbey are ·poor· and cheap T-A. ~es, ,;i r :; a·, .d ·becall8e they ,probbly can be oseo for' a, purpose when they are brought here.
Q. Am those unported laborers, :a s you. have ,s een them, ae a ~It\,
laborers that could h· ve go,tt.en. here witho t assistance t-A. I don~t
belie,v e1tbey are; tbere may be aome, i~s·t ances of a better elw,1but
very ~.·. w., be.lie_
_
_
Q·. And therefore, left 'to tb.e natural lawa governing im.m igration,
·the;y would n .o t be here at al,l ·t -A Not .unless they came in the.wa7
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·they do. • · ··as
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- T·h· -•.e· w.-.• h·O
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to , tart]w··th,of course 1-A. Oertaiuly. Tha.t is what makes me thiak
that these men mu t be o.f tbe lowest-grade, wh,e n they can ·1,e, ,g ot to:ge~her ~n the way ·t b~y· are and brought here in the manner they an.
do,n''t l,e:lieve tha·t skilled workme.n who looked to their owa .··oteresta,
_ ill
. .
0
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u,uld. be ,g,ath.ered up sud broug ·"t ,ov : r here in th at w · ~·..
_
Q. To wha·t e·x.t ent is. tha·t impo:rted .labor brought, to thit1 eotlllteyl.A~ W,ell, when a strike oocors, ·t he e.mpJo.\~en, geaerally go, o·v er to Euro~· or ,s end ageu~. to briu,g over tb:iis labor.
·
Q. Have these laborers oome in large numbers at,ao;y time 1-A. They
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8
BBLATIONS BETWEEN LABO·R A.ND OAPIT'AJ,,,..
have11 In 1867 ·tJJ.e employers, brou.g h.t qoi.·te. a number of Belgians over
her&
Have aoy othen. been brought there th.a t you know of· in tbat
in.terr est,·t -A . Not iron workers.. These. tbat I spoke -o f were il'on
~
1
workers.
-
Q:. Wha;t w . . d,on·e with them I A.. Th,ere was a strike in the ·i ron.
·millsi and the manu.f actorers ,o f that district sen·t agents. to E·oro_pe and
1
brought over these Belgians.
_
Q. Bow extensive was the stri'kel~A. At that tim:e it,was a strike
for Pi.t t .'b urgh only·,.
Q·• .Bow many w,orkmeo do ,Y·OU think were ,o·o strike at that time I A.~ I su1111os tbere were fi.v e -o r six tbonsao.d men tb.rown out of' e.mpl.o ym nt by tbe. strike.
- Q. · - o,v many· laborers we:r e imported at that time f-Aj!, The n·omber
I coo'Jd not .s tat,e, bot tLem was ,q_u ite a, n.nmber, ·p erb -· ps 2,000.
·Q.. En,onnh to e·n . ble t'he mann.lootnrers to ge-t along withoo't, re-emplo~ring the .Am.erica.n. laborers T-A" For a while ·t hey dhl, but the
:foreigner did not prove .a 1S l1et. ·. ss"'
Q. \Vb~ 1 A TbPy w-e re not swift wor'km:eo.
Q. Did tb.eiritDl)OJitatioo operate,, t·b ongb, to break down tbestr1ke!A. T,o a c.rtain e ·t ,en.t it ditJ.. They· w":re em,pluyed un·til it Wil-8 found,
C
that t'b y we.re not .atisfacto1'31', and th.e n of' course the 'be· t of ·t he old
hand.s, were called upon to work aga.1n.
·Q . Bu.t tht; a,erage bands that, bad been.in tb.e strike loot ·t heir·plaeea,
I .SDJJJMJ&e· t:-A.. Yes,,sir:.
Qr~ Tben tbey must. l.1.ave been. d.eserted by their leaders,, were they
not 1--A . Well, the org-anizati,o os at1that time ·were not as. com_p lete aa
the_y are. no,,...
Q. Do t'hose. Be1gian,s still remain in that employment there 'I -A. I
be .i.e.- e tbP..re are very fe·w of them tbere: now.
Q. What bec.i,·m e ,o f th,em t· Did they go i.oto the iron works or did
tbey g,o into other Ilmsuits,!--A~ They- . ent into ot:hier wo.rk., ontdoor
work, an,c h as st.one quar.r.i@s and other things out ·t hroo,g h the ,c ountry
districts.
Q~ Tb.e n.they· do not rem · in permane·o t enmpetitors with tbe.,s killed
wo .·km.e:o of P.itt burgh 1-A.. No; tbe~e m.ay· be-a few of them there ,y et,
but very few.,
Q. What, sort of men were the:y ! A . Some were ,y oung .and so·m e
were 0.l d.
Q~ Bow were they as to i.n ·teU'i.Jen.ce aud as to having some .mean.s aocom111lated t-A.. I don't believe. tbey weTe an edo.c ated class or· peo_p le·
1
at all~
Q/11 They· W ~e Belgi · · s, you. aay·t - .·.. Tb.ey ·w ere ~lgi.- ns.
Q. Were they a he.a1.th.y aod vigorou .. peo-p lel-~ On the av·erage I
1
·t hi:nk t ·-,e·y · er,e
- Q. Phisical.ly, where the ·- about ,- he equals of t'be men who were
striking f ..........A.. Ob, yes :; p-h ysicallly t.bey were.
Q.. Did you ever nn,lerstand fr om them or any of them how they got
here t'- A. I ·u otlersrood that they got hen ·b y ooi.n g imported to take
the places o · the ·meu ,vho were out 0-01 ati-1ke..
Q. Who ]>ai(l tbe expenises of bringin,g·them.here 1:._A. or·that I b.a:ve
no de6ni.t e knowledge; but I know it w -:_s done_.
Q.. Yoit only k·oow tha·t tbe employers go·t them here t-A.. I know
· theJ ,g o,t , tbe·m here;, wbe.tb· ·r t'b.e y ·d id it ·a s a bod_y or acting separat6ly
1
.BB
individuals I could n.o t say.
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
...J.."41TC!i!D
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Q.. Bave. yon known any· oth@Ir instances in P1·t tsb&Fgh or· that. ·v iein,
ity o,f .su,cb i.m1m.0irtations of foreign. labor when. AmeJi,ean la'bo:r en llave
'been on strike t·- A ,. ~-- ot any -.1n.,c0 that ti.m.e. .
Q. Hav,e the·r e been auy· i1npo.r ta ..".o ns of· foreign. laborers who have
'been. introduced into the mills in the o-rdinary ooorse o t:he busin-e as,
w.hen tbere ·was. n.o tronb.Je am-ong the work1n1gme.n., ~ -Ai No,. sir·~
.
·
QB
. _ ave yoo k__ nown auy oth
_. e1 sue.h cases of unportat1on.
o1·..1a ·b-orers
.In 11u ot.ber·porsui.ts or ooonpati.on !- -.--i7 . believe that .a t one time they
b.r ouglrt some for,e igners o:t"er to the. mining re!tiou in Western Pennsyl
va·n ia; that, was s.i - o-r seven _
:,:ears .ag-o.. I. bell.e re th.e 10·· ·u , · re Italians. Wbether th.ose men were importefl dir• ·_ c ·_ or whether the em•ployers.came to•J.: ew York and got tbem I do not know., but at any rJ.t&
thPy· wer-c brought. there fr-om ,- on1e ot'h , r Jlb.tce.
'Q. Do you know anything of the ,c onditio . of tb.e m.iue·rs. t-A" Not
very much
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'IHE 8'.HA..LL V.10.E :S OP TDE WO·R KI!f,f;,ME:N.
Q - T'o what extent d.o tb e evils of drinking, ,s okin.g,. and ,o ther small~
V1ces, aflec·t t be work.iugmen, to :ronr know iedge.f~A"' lo oo·r assooia ...
tion we ~o.eralls hy· to 1,-r ohibit an tha:t~~ V.1 0 'b riu.g ·t he snbj •t 01) i.n
fhe lodg~roo~:8 and. warn th.e men to avoi.d tho ·e tilings,. and '\\"e have
been succ~~sful in a .!T-ea t .m any in ·tan-ee.s in getting people, ·. ho ·:.ere
iH tbe b.a bit of u i.u,g ,s timulants, to a band.o n the habit, or to use them to
· . 'b-··ef1ore•.
a,m:ucii Iesse-x te
_ n t__th
.. an t..bey-h
. a-d b- e- .e0 .-d 010,g
Q·. 1 hen, tb,~ _g,.oe:r.al attitude of J.,our order,is fl vorable to-temperance
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!n .such. i.ndulgenoes.! -.A. . ·e~, sir
Q,. s yonJ." ord-e r m:ule. use ot" for tll,e 1>ropagation of ne.w a.n,d uno ual
tbeorie~ regar-cl'ing the tenure of property !-A~ W-ell, "they 'b1in,r np· all.
ques·t ions tu.a" perta-l'n 'to, tbc bra-n c'b cs, of labor tbat are •e ngaged in the
Iron a.nd stel mills..
.
Q~ That is,. _y ou. diseo.ss th.o ~ prac.tieal questions rather than qu,estio-o:s
relating· to tbe -o·,rrnerNhip of lan_d ; changing th~ fm;m of government,, or
introdnt.~.n g .new aud. untried theo:ries 1-A. We do not take those up
much; w bavenot _""et atau. ._ rat,e ~
Q Y·:-:-o_-·u n ~ ra·t -tie- r p·'1t,1t.1..\JL1 "'tnq:I
· he·rwi
·. ~gae·-_ 1··n yo,un r ob~in.nr[le~
an·- ·,d' di
.,
~ I. .. l,..a,,o ot
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-~ SCIJ.S·
aions,:_A" y ·e ·, 11r·.
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Q.. Have .·nn ma.de a·ny statement.in regard to the. eightrh.our law T
A. Yes.; Senator C'.all. question~\ me on th~tj :as-I 1&aid befooo,, :Mr. Jar. ..
!@tt had g:001 · over' all those s,nbjoots very flll[y, aod .. ., I ,spok-e o,f ·tbem
I w-oul d ·be only going· ov-e r the ,sam.e ground.
~ I understand th(!.~ you assent-to a11 · that. ba.s been stated by 'him
on this au.bj1e ot!-.A. Yes, 1S ir..
1
A TARlPP NECESSAR-Y '-fO PROTECT L .& B0B ..
1
Q~ What is yo:a ·v ··e w as to the necessity of a tarilF to Am,e rican wor
ingmieu !-A To protee.t the.m.
-
Q. _',ij, a :prote1J"ti.v0 tariff :necessary i·n this -co-uutry, or w·on.ld ftoo trade
be _bettrfn.' .t Qr the workin,g mao t-A .. Oh,1a protective tariff 1s ne.eessary.
,Q.. Wh3?!-A. To 'J)Foteet the in.d us-tries of American ·w orkio_g men.
Q,. , ,ow_many of th.ose e-ogag,e d in your in-d nstry w-o uld ,.a.y t.h st free
trade wou.l.d be better· for the American workinguian t'ban a protective
tariU"t -.A . I ba.ve never be.a rd -o ue that ·w orks. m. the iron ,o r steel miJJa.
.say bot · hat .a.tari.t I is neC:!SS&ry,"
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10
BELA:TIONS BBTWBD LABOR A.ND CAP1TAI.
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1
NBW You:, Be.,tl!IMlJer 7, 1883.
JoHR I. DAVJB, swom and ezaminoo.~
- •· m-:.JQ.A.J."'t
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Qa,estion,. Where do yoa livel-Aoawer. At s·ha·ro·n,, Pennsylvania.
Q~ \\rhat is y.o nr ocenp-~ti,oo·f -A • .I am a puddler, or al H boiler,"· .aa ·wt)
are ·o ow called,.
Q. . ~!-e y'Oa con.n ee~ ·• rilh the Amal,gamated ABSOCiation of· hon and
Steel '\Vorken·I -A.. ¥ea, sir; I am.? :mom.h er' of 'tba·t society.
Q .. ,\7 bat JH>Si't ion c:lo you 000npy in the, associatioo'I -A. I am wha,I
iii, termed viiee~.p resident •Of tbe distrim:.
.
Q,. Are yon one of t·bo ,d ,e legation _ap,poil!_ted to ~ppear'before.this •committee to represen.t, the wwociation t-~ I am,.
Q. Just go ,o n and s·t ate aioy matte:ra that yoa ·desire to lay be·fore the.
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A •. Well,, sir, as a rep,r,ese ntative of the, Amalgamated Assoeia.t ion of
Iron an.d Steel _Worken, I am ere to testify tha.t the ,object o:f our·aaso...
1
1
ciation iti_t:he ele.'\"atiou of our membenbip, mo.rally, 1111entally,t and flna..
cially·.. Our cardinal priocip·l es are that we ask n,o·t hing u~just,and aub-. - 1·_lce..
mJ,~t to no lDJUS
Q~ You ·w·ere delegated with ,o then, I ondersta,nd, to lay before thia
committee eertain e,u.gges,tiona w·b.i ch m y be of service to, t'he laborin1
m.,eo ,engaged i·o y:~ f:J_" n oocu·pation. as w,ell ~e, to others, but
yoo d,o I.hat I would Uk:e y,011 to state what is tb,e gene· . l eo;nditi.o·n of
c·h e workin.g people i·n y·o u vicinity aud elsewhere 'in the ooun.try as far
as, ) on know it.-~ The condition of the members of our association
genera·11y, that is t.be. 'iron. 'Workei~s, is fair; the wages we recei_vl~, are. re,,.
m.une-rativi~ oocordiog t.o tb.e &'elJing prices of iron and steel and. tbe
general state of ~ _le,. As has been s:tated here, we are gove·r ned by
what we term a sliding sca1e; tha,t is,W·e a.:re pa'id t51i0 a ton w·ben iron
Mils at 21 oents a pound, and. we reee1ve :a n atlva·n.e.e o·f 10 ceuts a t:on
for every one.te·o th ,o f a cent advance in the price. of 'iron per ponwl.
Q. That ·is arranged by a permanent agreema,n.t be'tweeu your auo.
eiat io·n and the em11·, oy,~rs f-L Yes, sir; a yearly greemen.t e·n·t ered
in:to by oo.r reilreseotativ,e s with tb.e represeut.atives oil' the employer&
Tbe ,9;ystem baa o·rkecl very harmoni.o usly so fa-r aa w.ages.are coneern•e d
.a fter 'the, ~me.n.t ·haa. been ,entered i'nto every year. Of co,ur.se there
is aom.e d.itremnce of opinion at the time when ~e are negotiating· 1a regard to wages, but after the agreement ia made everyth·i ng is harm•
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~ ABtd both aid.,e s observe. the arra,ngement for the year~A•. Yea,
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Q:. 'T be general. condition of t ·ose io. your oocupatio•n is good. No",,
how about ·-be miuem I' Do,yon. know anything abon·t their con.ditio·n 1-,.,.A . I ha,",e. some acquaintance among the ·miner&, surrou,o diog our vicinity\, Their con,dition is dep).ora.ble, to sa:v t·he least. Fro·m t'h e small
pay tbpy· ooootve, the freq1
11e:ot lack_ _o.f_'work, a11d 'tb.e grea.t ,a bundance
of l11bor,, there is a ,g rea,t deal of ,s uffering am.o ng the~.
.
.
Q. Of what natiouali.ty ,a re those miners, usually I A. They ,are. of all
natio,n alitles nearly; iu our sect1on they are mostly·Eog·l ish and 'W ,e llh.
.
1
~
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
Q. .A re them ·n atiV&born Americana among them f:._A.. I now of
none; -bere am a.Jso Scotclt. among them.
Q.. W .b at is their pay, generall,y ·t -A. I believe. they are paid at the
ra·t e of 00 cents a1 to·n for' ,digg1·o g· coal i'o that section!!.
Q!! ~ yon know w·b.~t \Vage& _per day ·t hat price ,g tv~ t~e-m 'l ~A.
When they wo.r k a full das's ·w ork 8 tons a day, I gness, is .a bout tb eir·
a.v era~ work.
Q,. - o,w mn,o h idle time do ·t h,e y have t-A~ At present one- .a1t.
Q. Has. it bee,n so for about a yea·r t-A. It, has been so for a long
·time;~I cou'fd no·t state th~ len_~ h of time it has been so.
Q~ They do the m.iningfJf coal .for tbe. h,eavy iron ·work8, I suppose I-I
1
1
A,,. Yes,, sir~
Q. Aud for th.e stlppl,1 of fuel to ·t he. people at target-A. Yes, sir!!
Q. Bo·w as.tot · ,ose coall•-·m.i'oen being organized I Have tbey·u ·.· iooK IA!! Not that I am aware of in ,our seotion. - T.hey are. endeavo-ring· to, es"'
tab,l ish unions.
Q. lo that, effort do, they receive aesisi.nce , rom t•e on·iooe of other
·trades 1-A.. Not tba, I am a,warn of.
'
Q,. I do· not mean pecuniary as.s1&taoee, bot other· asaia,t anee. in ·tb.o
.a ctual ·form·a tion or· the'ir onion· .-A. They do,, to some e:x,teut.. They
are encouraged to, form 11nii0n1s ·.o r the, bettering of their ,condition..
·Q;; ' ,o,w •· bout t'he prtvileges tha·t ·t hel" enjoy in the way. of scbooHu.~
for thei'r children !----A. WeU,. they b ·,e. th.e ir small 1
sehoo.m
.- ouses iu tb,e
a.ections of ooau.t ry wltere they a.r e •e mployed.
Q" Do yon. kn.ow an.y th·m g .about the coodit·on of tllose schools 1-A.
I do not.
Q. Where tho parents are. fore1goen ·f rom eome of the continental
oati.ons, of coune the e'h ildren mu·_. t ba·v e. dift.i,c ulty 1n aequirin_g our
langoage.1--A. Yes, Eur; as a ni'I · they do.
·
Q. n many instances the parents,, I take it,, are not famili
.· it our
anguage f-A.. 'T be Welsh people a.re more or· less .f amiliar with the
anguage before they·-come h.er-e.
·
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PBA.m.IOAL, OPB&.i.i'ION 01' TBB SLIDDIG ;B (tlLI:.
Q. Wba·t can y.oo .say abont- ~be. wo king of your' system of agreement or arbltratio;o a·t,any tinie ·i o ,the past I I think. _you so,:gested to,
me. :ia. oonv,e rsa.t.io.o that it, .h · .· . helped yo·u. through. what ) ' OD. ealled. th.e
., ·ooo,m" in 18'7,8, t-A. Yea, sir. -
Q. Wh ·tdo1on mean by that term '·' boom"'I-A• .A·n advance in
the price. of iron.
_
.
Q. 'W hat eau,sed 'that adVi ,nee !-A. It appe,ara that the demand a.dva ced at tha,t ,time aod s,ti.mulated pr.ices, .and as the price ,o f iro,n 1-er
pound r-ose ·we. received a pe.roo·o ta;g e of ; \" · nee.aooordmg to our agiee.
ment _
u,-ntii we ·~ ched; ~ believe, 17;;75 per
Q. From what point1di1d that start:f-A4 From.15.50.
Q. .B .o w loo.g was it from the be·.Jo.o iug of the boom u·n til it reached
the bighes:t . point 1'- A., If I :reoolleet, correctly it was about is ix ore1ght
1
ton. - .- . ... - -
weeks.
~ . By· reaso11 of' _· o r a.greement with t~e employers theadvanee waa
made without opposition. b . ·t hem t-A.. Yes, 1Bir; wit'h ont ,any·op1l0si•
I
tion .at all-witboot question.
Q,. \V.h en t e hi.9 b st point w·a s eaehed b.o-w w:as it in ·t llat respeet tA. The ,p ri.c e as p•a id. as long as iroo ·.. as seibt1g· at the. uones_pond1ng
price.
Q,. It w,e.n t down afterw; nls,, did it I-A. It weu.t d.o wn IDlmediately.
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
1'2
REL.A.TI0N8 BETWEEN LABO,B ABO C,APIT:&L..
1
Q How was it, aa, to your wages tll e11; were they ·red.ace1dl by the
1
&ame scale 'f:- A. By· the same 81'8tem exactly.
Q .. Was there aequiesoonce or wem the men di,a posed 'to ineiaton tho·
·i·nereae.ed ,compen1satiou 1-A. There was perlect ba~ony~n,o ta,word,
not a ripple. Th.e redn,c,tioDs, W'ere accepted cbee,r folly, ·and aooording
to tbe agreement.
Q/E Bow low down ,d id tb.e pri,ce got-A. The p _.,ce, went down. to the
poiut where it now is, 815..50 per ton ..
Q;'" ·Do _yo·u remem her how long it was in getti.n,g,back to that point tA ·' cannot rem,e mber the 'ti.IDe, but it was a, very eh,o rt. time. I th.'i nk
18 -i x weeks would cover the wbole ooriocl.
Q: How was, it iq olber :p ortious of the country w·h en this,,,boom•
took place f-A,. Well, where ou,, organization ,existed th.e same state
o tb·io,gil e.x.is·t ed; the ad,·auced wages., were given ,d uring the boom,
ancl the retluctions were ooeepited in tbe same s,pirit-.,
,Q. Do 3ot1, know an1tbiug about ibe- state oft.be case whe11e your org&u·1zntion did. not exi:,;t-·w ~etber th·.re were d·i sturbauces at su-c.h
·p]al4!es ·f .-A. Befom · . the es'tabJisbment of tbe organization tbere was .not
tba·t equalization of 1•rice&-the dHferen.t .m annfuct:orers pai-d. ditle,r ent
t)ri·ces. ,
- Q.. I J1ave·been :i nformed by llr. Jarrett tb/a t w bile, 11uder tbe operatio,n
ofyonr agreem,e ntin itt,· ht1'r gh aud, th.at ·v icioitytbe adrn:noo ,,·a s pa",d
,r eadily by t'he manufacturei·saut1 then the reduction u1ade.and ;we.e1Jt ·· _·_
,q uietly· by the workingmen, in other 110.rtl,o ns of tbe couotry (w'h ere the
t· course ) th
same boom w,a,s I.eIt o_
.. ere w ..m d"ffl
_1. · enIt·_1es b.et w~11 t·. ,he- em
ployers and the em·pla;y,e s; do Ji'Oll 'k n,o·w·auytlling about,t·h.at 1-A., i o,
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Mr. ,J ABRE.T.T. I wo-n ld sta;te. i.n the 'premises (as Mr. D ,a yis ·iij not,
·f olly ~.·c,q nainted with thefaets) that the boom in pri.ooa co · e,,red a ,streooh
of o,v er tive mouth.& lron remain ··d at 4 -cents a pound anti 4½ cents, a
pound ·£or two, mont'hs a:otl a half~ On tbe 8th. day of ·p ril, it · egan to
dec]ine and on the 8th o-f .·: a.y it bad goo .· trom tbe 'top to the bottom.,
from 4 eeun, to2t, cents a pouu,tl. ·•·· o that the advance ooou.p-ied some
a ·•.·0· mon
· · ·th··
· ,d. t-·b.·e·., ·reune"1ou
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··· k· p··Ja,ce in ., oor we~,, a__
ud , , _';. h as
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been st11ted, there wa. never a · ortl. or ,complaint,, not a 1ip·1>,l e in our
m'1lls.. 0 tbe other hand, i:u tb~Q,C mills 11ot cootroll.etl by· t he 0,rganj..
zation the ad,Tance ·was in ,some of 'tbem 20 pe.r-ce,- - t. and in others less..
T ,bey bacl DO't been advau.eed in }lroport1oi0 as our m,e n were,, ,an.d wben
t·be, omplox~rs weDt to n,,lnee those wages, ·· trikes tO?'k place.,a ]J r-ound.
The, GU,AIRM.AN1 In how :b ,r ge a 1JOrt1ou of tbe miJJs t
· • I. n no,· , · · t e1n
·-. · -·
I,. · · were a11~ 1'"',.n-- t·..-'h_e·. · ·eas,
· t er.n
· · ·,
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Mr. J-.. D-RR,
JJJ1 11·
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aeetioo. of the oouHt~y., · coub.l name you mills whiclt dor.in.,g that boom
did not a<lva ce the wages of their m . u, although i.roo adv·a nced fr-o m
2½, to 4 cents a.nd over 4 cents a Jnuod. \'-lben ii-o.n was, sold at 4: ce nta
iu the market the,y did no-t ia,l, ance, wages one cent.
T h ·• CRAJBXAN, T 0 'Wha·t ,tlo yon attribute thatfactl
Mr. JAR&ETr. To ·t be fact fha,t there was, no orw n1zation am,ou,g the
men.
The CHA.IR AN. ,So t·h at tbe mauufae.tnrers took all the,benefit of the
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took it alt That
in eom.e mills. Sonae
other 1nills paid their men as hi,g h ,a s 20 11er· cen.t. ad:vauce, and otb,e rs
- h as, 10
as IJng
; . per c,eu t.... ., b. \a.t. some pa1"'d'"' no a d vauce.
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
13
KELATIONS BETW.E EN LA.BOB .&ND CAPITAL..
Kr.. J 'A BKE-r • F ,O'rty-ei,gb.t :p er cent. in some ca:ses. If ,you ·will eEa·m i.ne. tll.e ,scale you w'.il'l no.d th.at it runs from 30 to 48 pe,r cen·t!! io the
different bra-ucbes; 48 11 the higbest an d 30 is, the lowest.
1
J ,o aN I . DAVIS, exa.10:i uation resumed.
NATIONAL· BUREAU OF 'LA..BO'R S-~ A~IS,T.ICS, A.MD COXPU.L SOBY BDU(J'A~ION.
By th~ Cll,\IK '[AN•
Question. Ar ·. th.em au,y measure·. of legi:s.Iation w·.h1ch ynu or your
order wobld li.k e to 1S ee ad.01Jt,~d tor th8 bette,rmen.t of' you·r co·o dition ,o r
of the coud.i tion of otber ·w orkingmen 1-Answer. .Yes, ,S'i r·; there is one
. 'nggestio-n. that our craft woul:d like to see adopt-ed by Con_
gress, and
tb.a t is. the e tabhshm,e11:t o:( ,a na.t1onal 'b orea , of labor ~tatisties for the
eocou.rag,e rneot and the edoca·tion,. as, I 1na.y· call it, of the laboring·
classes~ We fiud to a cous.ide1'8hle extent th-11t w·e ,a re uot as en.ligh·t e·n1e d or as, 1.nteJHge:n t , .. w,e wuoJcl ·u k · to be, au.d tor· that. r-eason ·we
would wish to see, such a national burea.u. estab Usbed, aud we ...oo.ld
abffl like to se.· - a system of eom1ndsory edo,eatioin adoptal. Also we
wo:a)d. lik,e to seu, m-eas,u ·reM adopted. ·f or the care of thoie who, on. ae..
count of po·v,erty, cao11iot educate tb. ~ir cbHdre-n. We feel that that ia
· · · -s:i'. . t.y,, be·
· ·· e we t·•ee· ·1· t-h.a· t· as .. Ca_
·1~ · s W•
·e· 1ac.
·· ·llik the· ~lllr
. . . ...1 ·ea,t·,,_on
i ,,,_~-.b a t
a• neees
. C30
·· e ou.g ht to &ave... Althougb we, h1ave w·u rkiugm "D among us tha·t are
men ot· ad~anced intelligenc~, yet A,s, ··. rnle we · _re :o,ot ~and.~~ would.
li.ke the. adoption. of some law tbat ·would eom1>e·I men that would.,o,·t btt•
wise ne2·.lect thei.:r fa:mUiea to have them ed.ucated1: Around some o:f oar
niills w,e find bttle boys ,emtlloyed when they sboold be at school ge't .
ting an education. These are thiuga that society should look aft,er, we
think, aud we would li.k.e: to hav,e so1u,e 1neans .ad.o pted to ri ·,gulate them.
Q . Bav,e the members of ], our association ite.nerallv a feeliu; tbat
there sbou·[ d be nat,1.oual legisl~tiou to w;s_ist 1u thi.s matter of edueatiug
anid disci pli niug tbe miodtc of t b.e , ·row·ing ,gen. rati.on 1- A. y ·e s, sir:;
l18 fit.r · as I am. aequai11ted wi.th tbei1•· thoughts a1ul feeli0rgs on the :sub~1ect there is. c\ d:~ ire that, our people ·· boold teet!iil"'e. .a better ed:o eatio,o,
a.ud that the c-b il,t lren sbonld be be 'tJ3r· taken care· of~,
QI. I su:p_pose tba.t th. local au.tbor:i ties.wher,e you live make, provi,ion
so that f o ,chiklren could be educated it'" tbei:r parents we-r e dis1·.c>sed to,
hav-e them ,o! A. •. There ar :· ·i n our vicinity ,g uod comm.o n school,, bu.t
the eh i ldt~en don't all attend them.
Q_ Js it 11ot the faet that many of the ·p arents feel obliged to ·p ot their
children to work at a ·very tent.l er age, in or,d-e r to ,ge!t a sap,por.t for the.
lau1ily t-A.. It is 1SO .10. some 1ostances, bu·t in others there is n.o neeeasity tbr that.
Q.. Then you think tbat many ').l&reots, send. tb.eir child.ren 't o, w.ork.
when they might have, them atten ding school !~A.. ·E rxactl,y.
_
,Q.. Then tbe people tbemsel,~es don't fully appreciate their need.at~
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A. Not i.o that res1,1cct.
Q~ Do Jou kuow an.ytb111g •-· boL1t the condition of workingmen in
other pnrs■its, the common ·11nskille.d laborer.s·f - Ac11 No; exeept so far
.as tbe:J,- are 00111nected wit'b our mills- I know tbe'i r wages, are eom.p arati ·. e·l r small, Ju •-·t bare living' wages
._
_
·Q. But as a1role orking _people. are better ,o ff 1·0 y,o ur sooti:on,, . tak,e
it, tb -·n :i n 0 tbe.r · parts of t.be country!-A... Yes~ sir; lhecirco.mst.aneea
surroondin_g a plaoo ·b ave eonsidemb,l e to do with. those matters. 'T he
littbi town in w·b icb I am located h• some advantages that P .i ttaburgh
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
14
RE,LAiTI0:58 BETWEEN :L AB,OK AllD CAPITAL .
"'aa DO"
tu'li'The· or
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·•ug-men
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wh·1Ie in oo·r town the reuts ,a re. m,o derate, and to,a consider.able ex.te11.t
the workio,g.men ,d w·ell iu th.eir· own. houses.
·- t- wha
'" -· ·t b: e pop·
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o.·f ··s··..•'h a;ron I...........A.·.. B-c··.,. et_ween
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,-· .e re 1s
work·
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Q.. Do yoo know aoytb:i.og about the: c.ond.itio of a.g ncultural labor
in ·t hat part of' the State_f- -.. · don'l~ 'k -ow much, sir; that is, ·t o he in.-
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telligently a.equatoted with i.L
_Q. As .a ·1·u.le, I sup-pose·,,tbefarm'ing·pop-ulati,oo ·.s tbebe: ,t o,f rthere·~
A. I presume so.
Q You 1Jou·1t hear auytbi.ng to the contrary, do you t-A. No., s.ir..
Q. You l111ve spo·ke·o. of tb.e d.e sire for 't'be establishment or·a natioual
·b ·m eao of labor &,ta'tistics. Tbat seem,s. to be a general. de.man-d on. the
part of the laboriog ·p eople of the cou.ntry·.~ Do y.oo. hear auy dieene
,sitn1tS among them of the-hours of labor-the: eigbt~bonr Jaw 1-A. I have
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Ali' EIG·HT-BOU'B LAW WOULD NOT APPL,Y 'I N IKON' WORKING.
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Q~ But there i'R.n.o general demand, I oppose, for· 1egis1ation in that
re., :ardl t-A. Not in our immediate loealit:r,1from t'be fact tbat .a n eig'htbuu·r la · could. not :ap,p ly·to ,o ur· bu ·.iness~
Q~ Why not t-A~ F 'r o,m the. fact tba.t we ·w ould hav:e to qo·i t e1th.e r
betttre ·t he ,ei.ght b.o urs, were. oonsum,e d or else would ba;v,e to w·o rk
lou~er.
Q How is that!-A. Our work isd.i ~ided o~ into :fi~ve b,e ata or charges.;
ea(jb ,o f those will sometimes take an. hour and a half aud. sometimes tw,o
ll••u1· , Ju~t according a,s, tbe m.ahrial 1s a the ·me. Beuee ·t o a.dopt
the ei.: ,:h~hoor la,w in our b0_a,i ness would oft-en be to cu·t off the fiilb of
the d ai·1s w·ork.,
Q". You work by the h-our_t-A.. Yes, siri.
_
Q. Bo,w many hours a day do you generally work.I-A.. ·w e . ark
·fron1 11ine to eltit"en 11ours a day ; w,e a'f'.erage ·abont t•eo ; that is, a,e ..
cordi.u.g to the quality or·t be material we. have to work. lio:m.e iron tak.e a
longer than othe·. iron.
Q~ ls a day's ·w ork. five charges 1-A. Yes, air.
Q. And each of those, y,ou say·, is longer or aborter, aceordmg·to the
,qnaJ:it.)~of tbe materiat ·t - A. A.ccord·iog t·,o the ,q·oal1ty of tbe i.ron.
Q. Your day',s w,o·r k ranges £rom nio.e ho11re to ,e.leV'e.n hours,, and the
·a verag~1 ,yon say, ·i s a·b out ten boors I-A.. That is about the avera,ge.
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THE T.ARIFP NECE'S SARY.
Q W.h at ·is ·the general feeling or your· people i·n regard to the p·roteotive tn.r ifrt-A.- Tbey are nnauimooa. on the gu,e stion; tha·t is, the
i rc111· workers, e.~ p ~ cially.. Of eon rse we :b ave d i:Jrer,ences, o,f··opinion~ In
our l,Oc·i,et~r ·p olitical q ne~tions are. ·n ot di scussed.il
Q, But this ,one; .I nnden.ta1Jd, you co a.iii ·r thait so m· .ch a, aettJ:e d
qneMtion that Jta.rti,e s do n.ot divide. upo•n it a.t all ·in. your .a ssociation t A, w ·e d.o not ,d ivide u11on i.t as iron ·w·ork·ers.. We d.ee:m 'it essential to
tbe i11tereMts ,o f our· trade. t,o have prute,c tion, and w,e wo·u.l<l ·be Vrery
Jlad to have more of' 1t,, especiaHy on the tin-pJ.ate,, the cotton-•tie and.
the wire rod. Our bosine: · w·ould then e-mploy a great. many .m.,en that
a1-e no,v a ''sorplu•" on. the. labor ma.r ket;, lt would. emp1oy ·m.ien not
,o,u ly in tbe immediate manufacture o.f i.roo., but. a grea.t maoJ".m ore, also,
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In the ooal re,giOllB and in the quarries producing tboae. th·i ngs that, ,are
requimd in t"h e iron manufacture, 1RO that, it; would hav,e a beBeBoial
eDeet upon a great number of men.
Q., Women and, girls are not, ,employed at all in your business t-A
Jtot in our vi.c i.nity. Q. There cannot, be ·much ,o ppmtn,n'ity for female labor in that kind
(Jf ·wor·k f-,A . No, sir.
Q. Wbat heeomea ,o f the. womie n ·t here 'f .-A. Well, they work as domesti~, i.n t'b e stores, and wherever there is emp1.oyme·n t for them.
Q. Yon doii,'t kno,w anything about 'the wages they receive f-A. ,I do
not.
Q. Are tb,e·r e any other suggestions yoa wish to make to the eom...
mittee I
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PosrAL BA.VDIGS BANKS.
A.,. T.bere 'is one snggeeti.on. t hat I heard a. gen.tlem:_an fMr. Livinton),
,apeak of yeste·rd:ay in. .r e., :ard to the adoption of the postal &a'v iogs
baok system. I 'k n.ow a little about it, :from tbe experienc.~ that I had
in E·~ gland,, and I believe. it to be.,a great, ~u. ce or help t·o the people.
·The de·po&its that are rreceived in t:b1ose bauks a.re ,ery small, com. .
mencing at..a, shillin,g ; and I .reme ber bow, whea. I was a boy, I d&posited ~y fit:-t , 1shilling .~~ ~. ,e pos~oliee sav1~gs ban , and I re~e.m·h er· t1lat 1·t was V'e r . grati.fy1.11g to met ·e next ,d.ay or so to wce1v·_ a
eommu.nication from Lonidoo saying that, my shilling hall been reee1ved
there. I believe the 1&3~,.s,t em is a great ·h elp and ,e ucourag.e ment to the·
'Working classes ~ - _sa,,e__the.i r smal!, earnings. . T ,b e rsmall. de.poJsita
accumulate .a nd e.ncoura.g e the wo,r king people, to save their money.
That, i :. a Py· tem tba't I w·ould like very much to see o:pent-d op bere.
It was ·i n t.ba't ay that..J l&Ted a little-·money to come this country on.
Q. Bow J.O'DJ? ago ·was that 1-A. lt is now se· ,euteeo. years agu.
Q. Then tbey have had those banks estab•lished a long , ·bile in
Eng.l and !- •A~ Y,ee, si'r; tw·e nty years, I think.
Q. Are th.ere ··aviug, i ban'k s, pri'. ate or na:t ional, in ;S banm.t-A... No,.
Bir;. there am national bauk . there. w ·e had a savings bank there, ·b ut.
j ,t failed, .ao,d a ,g rea.,t; any of the men los.t tbeir mon:e;3~.
·
,Q You think, .I a.n p,pose, tbat t:bere woald be complete coofidenee in.
& Govern1D.e nt· 'i nsti1utlon. such as the postal savh1gs bauk would lJe f:A,. Y'e s, sir ; l believe that tbe 0006.d ence that the people ,o r .H ngbmd
bad ·i n those banks waa ,g reate.r th ·'D t'bey- bad. iu any ,o ther bank~, from.
tbe. fact that th.ey feJ.t that the G•o,ver.o.me·n t was at the bM,k of tb,e·,m aud
tlJat their •ouey was safe.; and that feeling, of coune, encouraged ·t hem
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Q., Do you k.no·w whetber them have been any large accomuJationa
mat.le in tbat way b:y the workiu,g: pe£1ple of England!-A. Yes, sir·; as
I understand it1 t-he_a,ooomulatious have i.nereased an'til theJ ha,v e now
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goue up into the millions.
Qra ·w ·b at does ·t be1Gov:e mm.e n.t do with 't he m:oney l~A. '?hat caooo't tell yon.
Q. Yoo don't know wbether· 't he money is. mveflted in Qovernment
fa.ods. or appropriat,ed ·t o Gove·rnme·o t uses,. or wbetb.e r i't goe8 i:n to, the
hands of trustees wbo in,rest it 1111d.e r 't he direction,of tbe go~ erument ! A. I c.aooot say what. nse tbe,y wak:e of it,; bu·t l kno w that the people
have perfect ·COD'6dcnce ·t hat the m-0 ey is saf&
Q. The Go,v ernmect guarantees t'be ·satecy of the deposits '1 -·A. Yea,
sir.. '?be interest1they pay on the money J8 81Dall, bot still it1ii 18Dr1& ·
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BELATI0 .· S BETWEEN l4B·O,B AND CAPIT..AL .
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,Q~ What ia the 1'ate of i.ntere.st t-A.. It ·was only 21·per eeot. when 1
was there.. I d.o n't know whethe;r•tbere:bas 'been ~Y ,,baoge.
Q. Do, you tbi-ok tbe working peop·le of' this oountey ·w ould care .ror
th,e, es:tablish•e·n t of a system ,o f (JOStal 1
savin,gs 'banks where tb.e int-er•
eat would 'be so Io·w a . 21 per· ceoL !-1 ooul_d not sa,y .aa. to the peroen~
age,, bot as to, t·he seeu ity I know they W ou1,1 be satisfied..
Q. H·· v·e you eTer·he rd any talk am,o·o g 'the working people as to:t~.e
rate 0 t· int;erest they would ·oo . illing· to acoop't 1.f' they could maketh-e ir
d•epo -. its in a1Govern.m ent savings bank !-A. No,, air.
Q,. Do, JOU rect1Ueet, what is t:he legal rate of intere~t in_Peonsylv~
o.i a 'I -A. Six per ,eeo.t. mthe legal illte.r est in Peunsy.lvani:a,. altbou.g ·b
the b·au'k:s pa_y on'I.Y fon.r now
Q. B,o't the Go,l'"ernmeut is getting on by paying ooly 3i per een't,. yon
.k now T----A. Yes, I kn.ow tha.~
Q_ ···1ul I soppo . e the Gov,e mment ·w otdd · o-t wa.nt ·to guarantee a
runch :h igher mt,e,,o f interest than it has to, pay ·OD its ·O wn securities,
woold it f-A. I beHe:\"C the wo.rking people, f:rom the coofidenue, they
would .h ave in the Government an d- the feeling they 'Would have that
their moo.e y· would be safe in its. keeping, ·w ould ·oo satisiied wi'th. -that
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percenta.ge.
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Q. You think th.at would besatisfaetory to them and that they would
be wi.Uing to take the s m,e ra'te of interest that the "' 'bloated hood..
hol,d er" gets,, .a nd le't, it go at that 1-A. Y,es, s.ir.
THE TABIJ'.F A.GAIN.,
BJ M
, lr.
o·,A-.J,L,:
1s31y tnat yon an.d your a8800lates are all in favor'of &1protect..
ive ·t ariff;. do yon wa·o t any more protection o,n steel and, iron ·than yon
get 110w .~A. -.W,ell, tbe peo:pl,e.woald be bette-rsatisfi·e d if it waa a lit.
. l.e h'igb.er ; tha;t is,, i-r it had r-emaiued al the po10.t w·h ere 'it, was previous t,o t:be last session of Congress..
Q.. What other articles do you, 'Want protection.on besides thoael~A..
The tin teme~"Plat,e, the cotton-tie,,, and. t.:he wire•rod.
Q. Tbose are all P'enns,y.lva:nia,industries, are, they· ·n ot I-A. Not n . .
QI J. on
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elnsive:l y.
Q" Largely so- Do you want any mom prot,ecti.on on sngar I Do .you
w-:1nt to r&'ise the price o-f sugar 'f:_..A. Well, if it would ,gnar.antee
faction to those t ·&:at p roduee it and ,g ive them _good ·wages,, w e, would
be willhig to pa:y more for it in order that ·t bey ahou.ld. hav·e that.
Q. How about clotbing·t - ., l bel'ieve that, th.is, ,c ountry ·produeea.
elothing g,ood e,, ongh for us,to wear j at least I ftad it, so.
Q~ How m.a cb ad - antage ha~e ynu and you.r people if you simply in-crease the, priee of all these thin.gs I Wh.at woul,d be tb.e ben.efit. to you
of tbe tarilf on ·i ron if, at the eame 'ti'me,, th.e more wages yon got the
more ·yo11 would h.&'V e to pay for your goods and for your pnnrisiona
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.,.,,_:l;...,;.,nence
in.·r egard to that, ·~ e. find that when w·ages are,.b igh we can do better~
Q, . ,am. not, talkin_
g now .about, any eJXperieu.
I am talking abo,u t
Jost, tbe condition of things that, I have. Sta'lecl. Suppose. you were, to
get ts a day fo,r your work n,ow, bot at, the same tim.e the prices, of
eyerytbing that you oo,nsum:ed. -were, proportionately increased,, how
m~ch betie6t w·ootld the increase of wages be to yon 'I
~r. JABRE,t tfl., If there be. no objeeti,0-01, I will answer the question.
aati~
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Mr., 0 ,A.L .L You,·m ay answer it.
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17·
RELAT,IONS, DETWEE.N LABOR AND CAPITAL.
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1'fr. J .&'R RETT. When. ·e -orked under free trade. n this oountr3-- Hr. ,C ALL,. [lnterposi'n,g.) T.ha· i ·, not answ,e ring :m y question ..
:Mr~ J.um .l T~·- I will aus er ~t.. In 18liD th,e. number of hands em.pJ~ye() in our business was 22,370; th.e capital 'invested. was 116,370,700;
·t he wag&s pw.d was ..7,165,US; the co . t of t·l le materials :was . 43,79f, ..
854.; the value of the prodnc · w·a t83,9M,529. At.that time ,y on 00~d
ba.y floor, meat,, and vegetab es v,e ry cheapl:y,1ba.tolot•~ g, sugar,.coffee,
and those a.rticl,e s ·t h t wer:e not produced at ho1ne . ere real lm::nri.es"
By t •h e censos of · 880 rt app ·. am that the number of hand . ,employed
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~1~h:
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Thus
ill lie seen. th wages have._ i:oereased.
604,553,,t oo.
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in.
much grea,ter p.r oportion than the valo.e of the,products, and I claim t:hat
that, ha .· been largely brought aboo.t by .P: otection.. I will state fnrtller
hat white the w i. g,e . g1v,e n U'. by protection have increased more than
100 per·eeut. be oo t of living .bas not increased liO per cent.; he.nee
there i an ad.. , nta~ to those working in th.e iron. and Mteel trade of at
l1~a .t 00 per cent.,. ,aud,, as Mr.. Dav"., was gomg to say, 1t i's a s1gnifiean.t
fiiWt that wheu. wa.ges are high the men can sa·ve a great ,d,eal mo·re than
wrhe ·w ages are low·, even. taough the eo .t of liviug i lower at the same
t1m.e ..
Mr. CA.LL, \Vhen ,.,,,as i.t tha
e li,,..ed UD1der free trade in th.is
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Mr. J 'A.B'R -,- . · -:-om · 856 t,o 860--free trade, v.irt.nally.
Mr~ lllLL.. Wha·t ,d o you call free trade virtoallyf
K.r. JARRETT~ Tbere. was ·no tariff on iron and ·_teel or ma, ufac,t ures
thereof at that time, Just a · I n. Jan,l to-day has free1trade.on hon 'be·e aose she :p roduces t'h.ree times. more iron ·th.an she oonsnmeA, we are
protec,ti.onis,t s o·n iron_"be,c.ause we 00~snme more than we.prodoce.
Mr.. CALL.. Well, of course, I do not wish to ,d isenM the general theory
of ·b e tariff wit ' you; I simpl.y wanted an answer _tomy question, how
mo.el1. benefi.t 'tb.e workingmen.in fhat busines . , ~outd derive from ·. oomi.nal increase of ·wage 8eCOmpan1ed by . correepondio,g increase in. oo ~ t
of a l artiel1es., of oo 1snmp1tio . i •
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Mr.. J A BltE'TT·. ·T be q o.est1on pn.t i:n t);tat way woald hlipl:y con\: ey the
:i dea that that was ·t he fact in ·he ·p remises, an~d t.bat i · .n ot, the fact,
OALL .. Lea,..e out of ,c onsid ration the ,q o.e sti.on wbether i,t is tile
fact or not, T ere ma •. be many .other factors. ·w hich enter into th.&
question. of the ,g eneral aggregate wbie · yo . state, .and which it will not1
be. n,e cessary 'to discuss now. Ae.cording to t e theory of many economist . bese: ge,n e I propo -.··t io ··s . re -liable to be :i afluedced by .other
cause altogether. Th e point I wanted to get• at ·w as whether· · ,our,
people, the workingmen in your business, limited their· idea of .a1-pro.
teeti -e tariff to a ·t ari« on the manufactures prod·n ced .in any one J,o eality
.i n this country· ; but I ·u11de·r1sta:od from wha.t yon gen·t lemea say that i.t
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is the idea of the w·o·r kingm.e n yon repft'seot to have .a, high tarl.tr gen
e.r ally.
Mr.. JABBBrT. Exactly. Our idErc:1 goes farth:e r. Our idea is tllat if a
farme,r thirty years &jt,o sold his wheat for 55 eenta a busheJ, and he .is
now getting lliilO for it, that sho,ws ihe..ad:v antages of the :p roteetive
sys·tem!li
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. :ig. pro~
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tariff·I
Kr.. JilBE~T. Tbat wou·l d ha e a good deal to dn with it. Another
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point iB this: That wha·1: we pay in t,b~e markets .f or our commodities is
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2, C2
(5 :LAW)
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not oependeot altof:,~tber upon the question of tantr 01· J'IO tariff, IK'~
·caWJe. specoI ·t-ion · will,, to a certain. exteint, go,v ero. tbt~ '(lriceH o,f •,be·g(_•
-articles. Ben,~ , I say, I d.o 'D ot believe ~ lb one 1Dan controlU·o g tou
much, 'b ecause, if' he does, he can fix tb,e price. to th e det imen.t of
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others.
· ~r
I do n.ot wisb to diseu···s the genemll q_uesttonlj I sim,1,ly
0 ,A LL.
,va:nted to 'kno·w .hether you entertained tbe, idea tk•,t the Wgh.e r the
du.t·ies are the better off' the coon.try· is g .oeralJy·, ,o r . be.t ~,e r y_o~i; 1.d ea
,vas that _p rotection wa.s i·equired only for the industries io which. you
·· re yi0urse·1~ es_ ·Dg$.ged.; but I on •,e rst nd you t ,o say· now ·•l lat the
h.i gber the d n.ti · ·· the 'better 0ft" w · ,:ha11 ·11 he .
llr,. JARRE,T T .1 0; . dtd not say th.at. I saitl that as to thi·1 ,p that
,ye. Jet,r oduce ~e.r~ - as agains't _,hose l)'ro ·.uc~d !n any other oonntry, w ·
, er,e llrotect1001 t -~ - E·n glan,I was protect100.1 ta~-long as sbe n,eedetl
protecf 011 ; but directly she got alll to JlrodILce more tha.n ;be ,could
oonsu1n h .· chau,g ed to fre ·· tr; . de.,
~ Ir CA.LL... "'\\Tbat di0e it u1aitt 1·, abou'i
n,gJ,a , ''s 1noti,..es ' We ar
talking about pmsen fact · int is. count1y, and about the future •
.Mr. JARRETT , Certainly;, bu·t we 'b el"eve that a, tax O·b im·o , wb·icb is
:1»1,i.d by the for eigne.r who plae · .~ his iron in our mark:e t for . a1e, will
not, iucr ·a . e t·h e cost generall ·. o b,· oon· om,e r in tht ·. country, because .
lie tloes not ·p ay th. ~t tax di:-~ ·ctl:v to th,e Gove1.umeu.1t ; i . i . I."' id. by t ·be
ln~igner.,
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llr.. CAL:L .. Tb :·u 3:~our th 0 r:r :1~ that .b, :ftllo - tb~t ,con _umes the
Jrou tb · t you make ought 'to be tnade to :p •·v , ·b at tax ·~
ll'r. JABRE
o, sir; m.y th r." i t-~at as labor produces all
·,vealth w,e ,o ngb· to ·produce ·t he . ·e ,fe1·1 commod.iti.eiri, her-eat h.ome and.
-increase our weal b 't h : rebl"' ri:'. tb r than increase ·t he weal,-b of other
.J1atio·n · bv importio,g th . "r· mannfa~tures..
}Jr. CALL, How aboo·:- the man ti,at make wheat and: pork and sells
~it tu yo 1; , -our idea is, tot . 'k e trom him . rbitraril3 so, .m oeb more of
·his, wheat ot pork or .corn as will pa:y this, tn1· - ·
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.· r. J ·nu, -T7.. Ob,, not at all ; because the p,r iee of hi oommodi y
'\17ill be lara-ely go,rerned. llv the law of so-pply .and de' a·n d .
llr•. OAL,L . l:f tha·t is so what do ·., ~ou Wdnt a tanff fo·r1
Mr., 1J .· KRET~r,. The tariff is wanted. ,. · a a.inst other na"ti.on· .· • I •
-in. favor of' fr-ee trade. in our own ,ooou 'r-J, bot I a·m not in favor o.f free
foreign trade·..
·
}l'r . CA.LL. .aDl :u ot talking of free trade no w. I ,d on't k:uow ;t hat l
am in ta,. or of· free tmde my · lf., l on.l y , an·t to ge.t .a t )"'o ur iclea, You
think it i .·. a g00tl tbio. - to impose on · ome b,r anchea of ". · ~ostry an.
arbitrary tax for the benefit of some otl · 1~,s,'! '
ltlr. J · 'R BE
belie . ·e it is a, go0<l thing to tax com moditt.e s brought
from o• her coon · ies so that we.. r ge, to producmg them hem. It will
red.a ce t'he, p,r ice of t.be articl,e s. h . r .•. in rlle 'tu.tu.re, a,n d will at tbe same,
'time ·place . s in a po 1tioo. where other nations will not control our
,~mark _te in ··hat respect
.Mr. 0ALL. Then you want to make things ohea,per instead of' dearer,.
_·..1ow, bo·w are.you golng to improve wages by making things ·c heaper!
{Not answered .. )
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The CHilRHAN. [To the wiltne~r~ .] Is th.ere an.ythiog further that you
care to s.ugge · :t ., ,
The WITNESS. '. . o, sir; nothiu.g ·turther,..
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19
RELATIONS BETWEEN J.,ABOB, AND CAPITA.L~
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NEW YORK, &ptemb,r
T 'H o · · . M.. llILLEB
7, 1883.
s,,. om and examined.
By the. On AJBMAN:
Ques,tion. Yo •. are the ge·n eral man.ager, I belie,ve, of the .Atias w ·or:ka
in Pi.t tsborgb 7-Answer.. .I .abl11,
,Q~ W,b at- do yon man'1faetme. 1here,I-A. Rollin.g~m1II. marhiuery,
~blSIJ-work,e ·m a,c hlnery, ao.d other 'k inds of heavy machlnery;a,
·
Q.. Do yo·u have. occasion to employ a good deal
labor, to deal
J'I"tty large]y w~th ·.,he workingmen, and to observe their ooadition ,~
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..,.\,. To a n1oderate extent.
Qi Ha ··e yon been prese-n t here ,d uring this,fo n.oon.T-A~ I have..
Seeing that some of our·Pittsburgh me · were to testify, I felt mtmes,ted
iu hearing· w:h.at tb eJ h.ad to say..
,Q. Yon have heard the ,aecount gi,"en by th,ese gentlem.en oi the re-,
l;11"tio11s. bet.w .·. o, employers and. empJo, .ed there, and ,how they get on.
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nuder the sy,s tem they have de c,ribed., Won''t you. gi,Te us, t'be. beoie fit
ot~rour obser,atioo iiu.d experience of 1:be matter., fro.n yoor stan,d~
1mint!
·r&u ·m oN·- woRKER- ,., UN1O ..DE,T .RTM.E NTAL, To
~H',
, ·· .. UFA,0 TURING
.INTEKEST1
.A.., W ell,, I ,h a . ·e not :had experien.c e directly i,n th.e mauofaoture of
l-.ar 'iron or 1S teel for so:me tim.e, though fiormerly· I was proprieto,r of ar
large rolling .. m.ilt _ think the as ·. ocia 100 of ·t he m.e n together for, the
1mproveme.n t of th.e ir, condition i,s,,a.,.,,err good scheme in m,any respects,
though i:n othen, it 1n~,y not be ,q uite so good.;o, Io ·t b.,e nu1,t ter of making
an arbi·trary demand, for wage , while :be m.anufaeturers, g-ene.rally con.
,ced.e to such demand, "irod as a role would rather tr-eat with the asso. ti;o, on th·an, w1,,.
•t,h- in
" d.
,., l ual -,, s1·11
d' t- .o... th,e d. etri..1a\·:
. 1,~1c
1 1'"'t· .•eem.s tI o ,me to t-en.J
ment, o,f man·u facture to some e·xtent.~
think tlJ. t as a rule the manu ...
·1 ltcturer ··. like to pa:y their ·.en goed 'WSl?fes if tbe · tate o.f the trade,
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Justifies,it; though, in some instanc~s of course t'hey do not. They a-re1
like o-tbe:r men in that respect, fOT' hu:m an nat~u ~ is abou:t the sam~ on
the whole, an.d some of tbe,mannfacture1r, are liberal , :'bile. some othen
of tllem ,a re close . Tbe, liberal m,en get :he best labo?, pay the best
')1ri.oos, fo it. Som,e of the empJ03·ers, are co,n tinually disputing wi,tk
·:heir .m,en,, while o~en, rs ubmi.t to tlieir demands immediately o_ p~
sentatiou In our, deparlm~nt of the busin . 'S we are,.go¥erned. by tb.e,
associa.tlo,n of molder,s and macbiul8ta; t RY , ·a, ··e. an assoc·iation ,o f
tbeir own., aod a . a general ·r ule W•e . let them do a · t·b,e y please.. We
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don't have. m·o eh trouble, e~oe.p t tha't we sometimes, cannot get our work
into I he Eia stern market~ to where labor,is cheaper; we ha., e to do wi.th-·
on.t _tbat,marke't, aJJ.d therefore ~ .e m:eo_~a:ve some1times to, do, wi.tbou.t
work-go i,dle. Tbe prices, they demand do not, seem ·t o be exto~ionate
as a rut& They· seem to ·want.to meet 1rbemark,et generally, but they do
not know 88 the ,manufacturers kDO'W just what the state of ·tile trade is,
·. nd ho,w it is goiug., tb,o u _h. ·t he•· do ,seek 't o kn.ow it. I t~in'k the, sym- .
pathy of tbe man faeturers is Largell~ wi.t ·b their men all through the
country, particnlarly iu the iron and steel iodustries, . d that they
wool1
d like to 1see tb.e men improve their condition· 'b:Y any legitimate
mean.s they can adop·t , ei.t be·r by legislatio•n or :association,, or any other
way wl1ereby the3" can do better for,"themselves and "th.eir.' familie& ·
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20
RELA TlO·NS' BETWEEN IAlBOB AND CAPITAL.
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Bat the law ot· su.pply and demand ·is the gr-eat law ·t hat governs tbe
whole business, and in. the end all h·· ve to ·oo·w· in obedience to it"
Q. If these unions were.m.ore general I suppose. it would produce s
uniformity i.n the wag,e s demanded b1·th•e m e·n in. th e sam,e. branohes of
trade, an,d that, I 1snppose, wonlid be better for th.e maoufa,c.tnrers .A.. f the wage .· w·e re uniform al-, o -er t'h e .,eonnt,ry in an .· p .·rtioolar
branch of business, tb,a,t branch would be more pre perous for the m ,employed in 'it1. Whether the people a~a w.bole w·oold ·be. bett ·r served
.i t would be difllcu·11, to ay .;. bu , at an.. rate, in ord r to, ·b e of an a,(lvan.ta,ge to the m :_nn.facturer the r le ou,g ht to b. universal.
Q. !!.'hat ·s th,e point t'hat I wish ·t o ha· e your ,opinio.o ._ bout,._ •.h ether,
if trade · nn"on' exi~t at all, it i better· or w·orse for tbe manufacturers
that tbe;y sboul,d be.general throu,g hont ·t h .•eonn _r·y·!-A. Oh, nndoubtedly it, would ·be.·11etter that tbe.y _hou d be g·e ueraL
Q. FincLiDg them. exi · 1ting in your· locality and in your businetis,, yon
wonld prefer, if' they mus,t co tinne to exist there, that they sbonld
spread ,au.d 'become general f-A. It ·woold be better for os if they w ere
gene·r at I h.a ve just come fro·m ·.· · asbington, where I went to bid upon.
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a Governm.ent oontract, bo.'t th,e work came Eas; because 1a·oor IS cheaper
in tbe Ea _t. It is not necessarily dearer with , son aoooun t of th.e union,
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but it,is dearer because labor ·b ecomes,sua1~cer .a s you go l\Test and pnces
are better.
Q. In wb.a t w&y, ·t hen., would. the extens1on of the trades unions eastward 'be be.tter for yol1 _s m.an:ufae;tnrers .-A. If the men could arbi
tranly, b,- association.,, m -ke the..Prtces in the E - ·,t ihe sa·m e as mt .e
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west, it would ·~ be:t ter fo,r u.•.
_
Q. And you believe they · ··ould do thait if the .a ssociation . . · e re extended. to the East t'- A. They would. try to do it, bnt whether they
w~uld. succeed or not I don't know. I thi ·.k they would f '· ii, because
labor is so much ID·o re ,a·b ucn d ·. - t ~n the East in proportion to th · d -mand.
for it than in. tbe We -. t.
COMP · RATIVE CO.ST O,B LIVJNG IN THE E S~ A. , D
· ·. <HE WEST ...
Q. Is tb,e ,o ostof living greater or les. 10 the West than in tbe Eae.t t-•
.A .. It is leu :a s regards articles of .tood, and ~eater as regards · rti.cles
,o f clothiDg, and ·i n some cases the en·ts are lligh in the West-. The·
. Pi
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:ren.ta m
.· ttsb_argh'. are qmte
Q. Oan yon tell u . whether1 on ·t bt · wbole, livin.g · is, cheaper or d.eamr
in tbe ·w est than in the B~st ·. -A. I think, on the wh,o ]e,, that liviu.,g i:o.
the West is cheaper.
·
Q. Then, if thait is so, th.e w,ageJ.J, .or la~r·, beiug ade u.n.ilorm. by
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reason or·the extensious of th.ose trad,es ·unions, woold n-ot the tendency
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be. rather to help the Wea,t , amd. w,o uld oot labor naturally tend to ,g o
West,,where it •O•nJd get the same wages as at thie, .~ ast an.d oonld live,
clleaper 1-A. There would be that,tenden1?Y.:, j~,t as immig.ration sbows
tlJ.e same tendency at the present time.. One of tb.e. ad:v antagea ,o f our
protective tariff:,, I th·i nk , is that it brings labor fro.m. abr,oadl to this
oonntrj to build it ·up.
ha;ve an j1nmiense amount of '\l'kgin soil
utoaeh.e d yet, aad the, protective tariff brin,g s labor llere from. other
tM.nmtries--:brings the people here.to fi.n.d homes and to help 118 to build
We
up our country.
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21
BELATil ON9, BE,T WBEN L,. lBOR AND C:A PITAL
~ 'BE .. ·BLING BBTWEE
EMPL,O YE&S AND EMPLOYES.
Qi I soppose that your situation as ·t he general manager ,o f a muu..
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factming establishmen·t gives you opportunities to kn.o w a good deal
about the. relations. bet~n 'the work·ing:men and tb.e.t r employe?,,_ ~
to judge whetbe~ tb~y are ge·n e·r ally friendly or ~lterwise.----A. I •~ Oll't·
0 n ·u'"'1n.ntil b•vo t-.--- e·irirf.A'
il, UDY
L . .. ne
llilil'i
end]v
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th
- ·mk' t'I ..h,'it":;)y
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'.V&U:11 '9'1~ ~ l l . : l:J'I Dbliebed.
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..
as. ·t hey were befon;. ~he emplo1en a.re inclined to treat the .m en ~
an organization and n.o,'t as individuals. They·do not have that persona]
&)1 mpatb,y that tliey bad before with ,ea ch indi.vid.nal workingman;! That
·is m;y idea",
Q: Do you think that change hH beeu th.e e:ft'ect partially of the o,r.
ganizaiion of' ·t he men., or rlo ;y<!_o attribute· it _wholly to ~bat 1-~ I
think that bias been the ea11se., The employers. deal with. the men. now
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as a, whol.•. .
Q. Hsv _· .. you all . •d.o obt ·bat the existence. of these o~nizat.ions o,f
the. w·o rkiogmen gtv,e s them some a.d·, -a ntage in .·· xi.n g· the, prices which
they shall receive for their laboT .:- A. There is no d.on.b t, ,o f that, and I
tbin'k..it is.·p roper that they should do all tbe~y ca~ fo,r the improv,eme,o t of
t'beir CO·D.d1t-ion., a·n.,d. should get a -, ·11igh w.age - aa. they' ean.. Wh_e tlier
fhat is.'the be: ,t w~y of doing it, whether· tb,a t plan ·will ~timately ~
•w mplish it; or w·h ether the q'[n_· ._ stJ.on will be d,e.t e~.i ned by tlle law of
~upply and dema.nd, I am. not certain.. · The num.ofacto.ren do ·~ find
fault with ·t he m,en on accoun·t o.f their· organization:. Tbey only llnd
taitlt- with th.e m wben tbe·,J'Y\" cannot m.e et the. ·market.
Q. A d.e seription has been giveu. us. of how they arrange their· differ~
. uces, bJ"' a eonfemnoe between ommittoois re.pre en·t ing the workin,g~
m,e n and the e:m ployen respectively~ Are the msults so attained.. gen•
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erally· eatiefae,t-0ry ·f -. · .. They· are so .g enera.l ly, iu the iron and steel
branches of i.n dastry~
·
STR.JK~.S ..
Q;. Do: '· .y ou bink that, ou ·t he wbol.e, s r1kes are doo.reas.in,g in.that part
of·Penns'.yl1;r.a nia ·,1_ . · ~ Well, I eannot say exactly th t they a.r@. They
come up, e.very season for . short i'me,. more or less,, The coal miners
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are th e mo ·.t troubles.o·m e. •e las · in regard to .s.t rik . . 'The ·i ron and st.eel
men are a moeh more intelligent body, m,en ,of more education. and bet~
ter kn.o wledge of atrairs, so it is more .among the coal DU.Den than in
tbe.iron .a n.d . stool ind.a stries th.at the troobl,e, ,e·n st.s. Among the ooal
·miners. there is. continual turmoil.
Q~ A ·rie there labor nnio~s, ,e.x isti.n g to any great extent among the
coal mio.en,f-A.. Tbere :are.
Q. Bnt the ·m en, J,Od i&ay, are muc.h le .s. intelligent than ·t he iron a ·d
tee.I men t-A. The:y are wucb less in.telligen.t.
Q.. Are yO'u able to state whether on 'the wh.ol,e. th.e ooal m.i ner · are
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improving or ·not.,:_A,. I tb·1nk th .y .are, I think all the workin gm ;n
are improving in this countr ,•
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Q _ There· is uo,t sue-, an iDtu,s."o,n of ignorant forei. n labor aa to keep
them..a• - th.e1r .former Ie.vel or preve,n:t their' improv1ng ·.-A., l o; but, I
:think the greater part of our tron.ble com,e s from foreign labo,r that has
come to 'tbi·. coo.ntry.. Forelgn 1a·bor, a · a role, has m,ore of a tendenc~
to orga ize into trades ou:"ons than nati' e labor haa.•
Q. Do ·. on find nat1· e labor emplo· ~,e d to an .· cons.iderable e· .tent 11·0
the manufruJturing regions, ,o r to as great an ,exten.t .a s. fBrei.gn labor t:...._
A. The .native Jabor th.at i,. , employ·e tl there is more prominent among
the 1rou and ,s,tee, me·o tbaY
n.among the coal m:iners. As.a role, the ooal
m1u,en ar,c foreigners.
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2'2
:R ELATIONS BETWEEN' LAB-OB ilID 0 APITAL.,
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,Q. What can ,y on say u ,to tbi, inclination of those foreigners to t.isd_u.
eate their children !-A.. They h1ave a great, desire in t at difect-io-n.
La:b orera •·-·, a rule have.
CHILD LA.BOB.
Q. Pe, haps yon baiV,e heard the tes'tim.ooJ W'hi.ch has been gi·ven h,m e
tb,a t oftentimes ·t he children of· the working people, are put 'to labor at
,a te·n.d er age in onler to help to eoppo.r t 't he family; ·have yon obser,re"l
.a nything of tha,t !-A~ Yes, a.ilr.
Q. Hav,e y·o11.,observed that that evil exists to an)· gr,e at extea.-t t- - ..
It is n.o t so prevalent in. the, West as, i.t is in th.e East; in the g1Mss
houses, ·h t the H.g bt work there,! .a ,g nat many gir ·,s are ,e mployed, aoll it
•·n: a·_ :e.,o:ood'
- ·v oth
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."' ..k· the
aADeral
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gv l..:
' .. m41ln..
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_ Pnit
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,_ 1t.. I tb·,
.m
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girls ·w ho have got a coD1moo.~scbool education and feel like .. ,o rking·.
Q.. ~hey a~ gen.e mlly tb.ose W'b o ha·v e got, beyond the age before
which it is injor1ons to work !-A. Yes, ir; I think so;, ·t here is no,t a
ve,cy Ja.rge num'l>er o-f them in pro1JGrtion to the. w·.h.ole nn.m ber of working people, and then the laoo,r is ligh:t.,
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,Q'll!iii'.Ji.
;l!lljj ·-·
THE OONDITl0N OF' T.H E COAL HINERS.
1
Q;. Have you, any perso · al k·o owledge of the condition of the. coal
miners f. . . . . A ,. I have110-t been. mnch amon,g tb,em... I was director i'n a coal
miaiog co·mpany at Oastle Shannon,, ·where the men had their homes
n.e ar ·t he :mines, and it ,s eemetl to me that tbey could liv,e well if tbey
wished to. They earned large wage _,, those ·who worked stead.iJy.
Q. Oan_they ha:ve an opportun·i ty to work 1steadHy, thoae W'ho w'lsh
to ·-A.. In. some min.es they ean work· al't the y,ear round un1ess th,rr
strik~ It is a ,qoestioo of .h ealth and strength. a·n d of the oonditwu of
the trad·e~ When trad.e i :.- dull toe men ha,re to be thro,w n out of em,pJ.oym,e nt in tb,ose m.~aes that are harid..ro ·wo r·k, on aeeount of t,be ,q uality -of the coal or the di· tance fro·m tbe, river~ Ne ~~r · he riftr, with good
coal, "the men have. emplo,yment all the. tim.e1,
·Q . W.hat, wages, ,d o they· rooeive --A. Three and ,a q_u,a rter cents a
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bushel o.ow,, I believe.
Q. ··· bat will that ooable-a,mau tomakeioallay'swo!rkoflO,bours !-A.· Some miners can miu.e 100 bn.sbels,, and I have ·b eard of m,e-n tloing
as,·much ·as 125. -. think, however, ·t hat on an a,v erage they don't · ·· ine.
ov·e r 75,.
Q. That wool,d giv-e i ,2'.25 a day or over,for -· fair daiy~s work·, I sopn!Dn
A 'Yes
s·I'"'-r ;- I' ' th_!'n·
·o
p ~~
~
I t
_ Q;i, s ·t11at ·work t· -at boys can do 1-A. No, si'r; .J.t requires _trong,
hardy· men. to do i·t1right..
Q.. Are children worked to any extent io t'b e .mines t A., Oh, no ;
there. are very f~w of 't hem working the· .: ; ,s ome boys drive ·mules,- boys
of fonrtee·n or fifteen years, of ago;: hint it is very :r arely· that ,sm,a.1.1 cbil..
dre·n are emplo,yed ; there may be 1some, bo·t _g,en . rally t·hey are quite
lar.g e boys, that ar-e emploJ.,ed "tbe~e
·
Q, What, mines do rou 1Speak,01•· partic1darly '! -A. These are, what ai~,
called reef mJnes; ·t be v ·ins, along tbe hillsid,e near the-Pittsburgh bot_·
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,Q. Op~ated b,y large .e ompa~iest-A," By indi11i,tlu.als and oom11a- nies. The·re are se-..~e:l"al co:mpani-es there at, Castle. Shannon,, and there
are a gi~t ,many along the Ti er,, Tbe larges·t is, the -_- ew York and
Cle ·e laud, G·as Coal Company.
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
Q~ Bow .m· ·oy wo,r km~·~ ,do they .m p,Joy ! -.A I suppose th y ,-m.p loy
400 o,r 500 mi.ne ·•, possibly more
~
tJ. Of w·h at ·oation,alit,y are those miners ·t hat yoo speak. off-A. Tbe·
ID in ~ y of _t·hem are . \V-:el h. Tbey are Welsb" ,Soo~'h,, and E·n glish ..
Amencabs mine occa:·. 1.ooaU~: ; when farm work 1s doll they go in and.
u1ine, those w1'10 u nd· · : ta nd. it, an(l it is, not a l ery difficult bn.siness. to.
learn.
Q. Ho · con·t iouou i~. the emploJ .raent of those ,nin~r, I _ •. I tb.n.1k
they ·work on an av,erage two-third . of the , ,.ar.
Q"' Atl2o,rf2.25ad8\Y . - .. · . ~ Ye. , .ir. Someti.m estbeygetmuchhigher
. _ages t-han tha ' and -ometimes lo,w·e r • it depends o, . ~he mar.k e·t They
have
a .· big'b as 5 cent ~ ,& ho hel, and 11:robabl.y hi.g her·"·
Q. ·, ou obser,ec.l a,vhile a -o, thal- it seemed to yo,n tha.t tbey mightdo w·e ll if t.'he . saved their ,,·ag-e .', or ,,·or ed industr1oos1,~,. or Aom .t luu•
or·that ktnd.- ·· .. .. Ye· . sir.
Q, What ,a re tb,e personal babi't .·. of the miners ·with reference to ·t hriftJ,
and eoonom. '! ·- A,. Th.ey ,'_re not .a thrifty set o:r people. T'h y · s.p end . ·
their m.oaey Jarg:ely for ,d rink.
Q. Do tbey contract that habit ,o u·t there, or do · hey bring it, wit
· hem, ·from their home.-: in the old eountnes f-A. I tlliuk it is im,p orted
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_ • Does it increase upon 'tllem or doe .. it seem to be lessenin1g f-A.. I
lar~-e)y.
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t-bi.n k i't is, tending to dimiD'i ,h, thoogll the ·procession. ·t hat w e had the
other d.a y in. our eity would not.,s o, indieate. There was ,a proeessi n.·o,f
the beer-sellers, whic-, •CODtainet:I about 100 carria.ges, and from 75 to 100
wagons, showlog the number of ..'fore·1g , "beer-.s eller.s, in our town4,
Q. In i'tt bnrgh t A .• Yes, sir..
Q. They do manufacture· ·. little beer the.re,.then !-A,, Tbi · , .. for eign."
beer, as they term 1t . j ,, · ) . H.wac Spee ,a nd Cincinnati beer", T'll se bee.rs
are 1n. grea·t dema-nd, and the men who sell them a.nd our ·home bee ·.
manufacturers have rival proceetdona, a.n d this one th ·t 1 ··. 1,ea ,o f was
a proce .sioo ot" the " fo,rei,gn" beer ·men.
Q. How did the "foreig ·ers -, eom•e to be. 10 'P ittsbu·r h 'f.........A.. They
,. ent m.one,y there to 'their retAil dealen. to get ·u.p frbe p,roee :'sion.
Q. Then 'i't was a procession of dealers 7-A•. Yes, sir. "
Q. Do the ri' .al beer-sellers also must,e r ·t heir dr"- ken ·r espectively ·f . • • The;s ha~,e the beer o,n ·t he groo·o d seon after th.e proeession is over.
Q., To be ,seriout1 about it, what is the o.r igin or ·m ea·o:i ng of tba,t ·
=it"tution · What 1 ·., i 1or ' -:A ,! Tllere are 'bre .er1. of beer in Milwau~
kee, ~n. Cinci u ti, and in 01.e,.,.eland, a d t -ey send th·e ir beer to P~tts
bUJ'lh to be· sold.. They Jaave estab:l isbed sneh a .re,pntati,o,-· for thei.r
heer as to ·. ·II it ery ex·ten.sively· in P.itteburg·b. 'lhe local brewers.
·ome time a,g o ga., e a ,d,e.m onstration of their stn!o.g th and had a, procession, in whi,e b they· had an i01m ense. caravan of ·w ago .- · ·ith tlleir
drive.r s aud ·t be part1e ·w ho, sell tbeir beer~ The "foreign" brel\·ers
, letermiaed to .i mitat:e and r·v..al tbat demonstration, and they employed
all the carriage and wagons tbey could get in the ei y, and h ·_' a,p,rooossioo of their o"~H t-0 ·1iow the strength with which tbe3-· were ho'Jd1og·
outo the ·ittsbnrgh peopl iu th • drinking haunts. nd - ellin .- - them
this," foreign ·' 'b eer..
Q. Bo . · formida'b le a. p·r,ocessio
as 1t !-A. There were about one
buod·r ed a·~ d fifty two.. horse carriag,es1and an immen.se striog of agons.
lt occupied tlle · treet for nearly· an hon · in pa . ·ing.
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Q~ Are. there •.· n.y tinrt-h er sug·g estions that occo·r to, you that woold
be of va·111e to the committee ,
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24
BELATION8 BETWEEN LUOR AND CAPITAL .
"l'BE lNTEC.E STS OF .A.LL l'.B E WOBKINGJIE,N SB0 ·. LD 'B E CON'8 1DEBBD..
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. A,. I don't know tha·t I _could make ~,ou any valuable 1BD.g gestiOD1..
I t'h ink the, legi&lati·v,e wisdom of 't he country will take up these q,nee't1ons in their proper,~light rm.d ,d eal with. them~ I w,ou.ld li'k ,e to see any..
t];dn,g done th.at would ~advance the i'n.t eresh, of' the American ·working .
men. as a w·bole-•- the w.ho,e body ,o f' t ,em i.o the oouotr) ,.and not,m.erely
the iu.t ere .ts. of any partie1llaT clas~ I th.i nk th,e re is no country where
the 'int,eoos,t s of 'the 'Workingmen are as w,ell taken care of as they are in
this conn.t n..---na.t urally so from the nature, o,f ·t he oouotry i.'t&e.l f and its
nooessi iea. The de·maod for la,b or in this ~untry· is alwa,.-s as a ·~ le
.greater than. the snpply. Tb .· t is, the eause ,of h11migrc1tion1:h ~ The.
agrioultural interests, ,of the eoun.t ry req,uire to, be ta.k.c n c re or as well
a, the m,a nnfacturin,g i.nterests~
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THE 'TARIFF·.
I an1 a mannfactnrer, an.d I belie,v e io the. ·tariff, but I belie,. e only in
. och a ta.rift. as wilt properly de.vet.op the ,c ountry· 'wi.th.o ut makin.g any
l;, ts too
" k·.· our 1-.n
; ,. • 0 0 s~
1-.n.A.]- rau· s lB
.. awn.
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effies,
o.f· ,c apt. tal.is
.. · ..weal"-'L
wf.. I th
·_- ' . 1n
..nu,
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.r i.g ht ;: th.e 't.arift'" on iron is abou.t rigb·t , but not p~perly ·p laced. Tllere
1.~ oJd be
.• pa
I te.· a.od co,tto
- a t'· a·n,j!.,1,.,.,1 on
. uon
..
s.uo.
. ·... a tan,.fl·'' on tin
_~n- _: .e s 1,. f th- ,e re- 1s
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.... - _.....
Iar:ge ID
. , dU8t rleS
. , h,av,e been
-h
&t ·w_
~n,-e,.
· ·. ":_ b01~It_ lip •I.D th~Ole ,.._,.1:
·t1.ciu6S,·W)'h_1.C
are now idl,e a8 a ·r e +ult of the :m odificatio,-· of th,e tariW.. I think. the·
1' w·~en
. ,coming
..
h we •Can d
~w ao d
:ti
_,me 1e,
·er)- rap , 1y
· ·. o wi~ th
•_ ,ou t ,~ 't, ar1u.
.·• ea:o d-1
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foreign con1petitiou; we probably could do it largell :uow..
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THE BOUR·" Q,P LA.BOB.
Q. I wi0uld like to ,a ve you ,give yoar ideas aboot le·gislation in. re;o
gard to 't he hours of .~abor t~A~ _'\I\~ell,, 1 tllink that all J,egislatio,n on
that\ point 'W.ill be futile. While i - mig.ht be direcm .,'Y and m.i ght i'odi;;
,e at,e to :h nm.au.e emplt)yers that ten hours or eight houriS ._ da~ would. be
~nougb, still I th.i nk. the qnee,t ion sboul.,_ be le'l\ ,~ ·be d.e alt witb _by tile
business, people of the. cottn.tr3"' I don.'t tliio·k that Iegisla·tion b1 tha .·
line will eff'eet anything su'b atantial, ,excei,·t in a dirootory manner.. Men.
will work lon.g er hourti where they can earn more. \ olders, get done
work now at 4 o'clock and machinists at 6 o'clock. Sometimes, however,
the molder ·, have to w,o rk n tH 7 cr·c100. ·~they have to ·w ork until their
,d ay's 'W ork is, done. But we _im generall:f at the ten.-hour syatem,. I
tbfnk. ten hou .·, a day is about right for a daJ ' s lab6r1 _wisb the w,o rk ..
1ng day wer-e shorter ~n winter, but for six months i.n tbe · ,e_arten hours
a d,a y, I tbin.'k! i~, a fair day's labor It tlo ~ seem too ,h ard in winter,,
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Ji,,owe.v er .
QI ,F rom vour ob _er,~,a.tion a111.oog othet ,classes ,ot· .11e0Jlle,, those i H pro~•
:fessi.on .-,1 life and 'those engaged .i n .r-eodering ,•.,e rv:ice to, the pnbli.c in th@
=~:! ':[l ib~;n:O:{ sooft{t f:a~~o b:::1 ti':!il,"s~~e a~~I1:::
0
a 'b oy I worked from 7 o'clock in t'b e morni, ·.ty until midni.~b •for four or
ti.Ve mou.th.s in the :rear!!
Q,. What were ,ron doing -A. Manifesting.. I wH,8 a ,shi.P.ping·-cJerk..
As, I ad .aineed :my ·bo,urs. of :l abor werie ·.· bortened by m,-- securiu•g better
poidt~ons,1 but wb,en. . ,q.u1t workin.g for a salary , think I was, working
abont teo 'bout , a da::r..
Q~ Yon are in b11siness youi~sel.f nowf·-A. Yes, :sir.
•Q
-: •·. H·o,w tn1: 11.J hours do ,~oo ·w nrk dail,,r now·,,-. do, you 'think f-A,. I. am
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KELA.TIO·NS, BET\\"EEN LABOR AND C.APITA.L .
at. my ,~.ork, as a rate, when ·th.e men oom.m~nee work in the m_omio.g
and I •o ften stay lon g after the) hav,e gone ·bome".
suppose, tho11.,ghT
that, as a 111I~ I work aoont te-n b.o nrs a day.
,Q- - no. oo, find votn:welf under the n,eceasit·J'-" of
aivino- - &
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often. Oeoo or twice a ·- __ eek I am. in at night, meet1·og J)artitm at the.
hotel's and maki'ng contracts, ~metimes u late :alfl, m:"-l'night. It all de1
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r.aends on eircumsta_nces.
Q. A.s a nle-. do you. thin·k that the wo,rkin.,g people devote more time
ro ~a~r •o r les _. , time than the employers t-~. :LesA, I think. . _
Q. Ou the ,oth r·:baud, I suppo~, fb.e worL.;ng peo,ple ·-ave less, to
hope for from the res~ts. of thie ir :J.abor -.- •A . That is true,,, ·u nless, they
are sk.illed and ambi.tious. I .tlud,,at lr,aat. i'n ,o or ,ci.ty, th.at nearly all tile
n1en ·w·bo are no. capitalitit~ 1iave been. ·workingm,e n•.
Q,. Bow bave t'hes com•:-to be eapitalists ·f:__A.. B.y evolotion, developmen·t,. accord.i ng to capacity_and. opportnni~y.
_
Q~ It is the result of thrift and baro ·wor !-A. Thrift, bani work·,
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,._,,",.-1.o,n O·f- ·th
th-:e p:r esent-,manager 0.1·
I :th
and -eeooom:y. A
- -. -_,s an 11
. a t,- -_
.-, e
Edgar· Thome&n ,S teel W_o.rks.. Mr. Jon.ea, was an ordinary workman,
and he has DO·W eon·trol of tho,Sfl · -·_ •a rks as general manager·, and is. receiving a ery· large salary 120,000 .. year. B ,e grew· ·u,p,from being a .
onlinarY roller.. Being more s·ldll,ed .and ambitiou-s than ,o then, be.co.m.maud,ed be·t ter wages wbeH he wa a workingm1an, and finally he reached
the hi,g hest }H>S1tio'D ia th.e tra.de..
Q.. 1 suppose, 'bowe·,..er, you W·Ol1ld not present .such a case as illDBtrations of' what the m888 of' the -._ nrkm.e·u ,c an do, because the •condition o.f'
the .m ass of he men. must be regnlated by ditrereut consi,d emtions•.
TIiey cannot all e -peet. to be ~n.perintendeu'ts. A .. -•,o.. That is the
reason tbat I t'b1nk the regu.lation of tbe. hours of Jabor wiU. ,opera :;e
~dinst the men. th.emselves instead o.f 'b eing a beDefi.t to ·th.em,, except
where. they may hav·e ·bee·n required to work exeess1·v·e -,onrs.
Q. Do yo __ ·t hink. the.re would be amy difficulty io enforciog· a law
regulating t :.e hours. of labor by 1~eason ,o f the· un·w iJlingnees of the
workingman himself to be restricted in tba~ regard :-A. I think there
would ·b e. I think sncb ,a ]·: -· coul,d not be e.nforced. Ultimately I
tbiok 1.t would. be .a deatl ·1 ette .-,. like the -_ - of 1198 in re.g.a rd to, the
obsen .atio-n of' the Sabbath i:o our State.. It m.i .gb., --•-_well enou,gh in
-he abstrae.t, bot i·t woul,d be. im.possi'ble to carry it out 1n all ,cases.
Q. Yo11 speak of its, bene·Aeia'I in·ftuence being cli'rectoey; you mean
as an indication of tbe judgm~nt of· tb•e· com·m unib'" that eJi ·. bt _.1 011.lS 1s,
lon.g euoogh for a day·'s work 1-A. Yes,. sir. For iosta.n.ce,, in the. oortou facto1ies ti· e .g irls who were worki g· there rears ago worked four een bou·rs a ,day.. The. ten-hour law wa-s pa,ssed, a -,d the hours.of Jabot
w,_.re ~Deed to ten ad~, but, if I am not incorr&'Jt (and I ,do:u'·t t·h i.b k
I am), t·h e,,. W'Ork t,vel_ e hours. uow." '\-Vbile the sentimeDt i • agains·t it.
t,· nd ha,tl th ·-_ hou·rs retlHced. ffom fourteen to ten a day, they ba·, ·e goll ~
ll.J) a:-ain to t·wel ve.
Q .. Tbere ha - been :01oe testimon.r befo,re. us that in. -ome ·-_'•ections~
- _-.veH wl1ere there i - no suc·h la , tbe wo:rkin,:meo,. b·J" rea, _on of th. •-~!·ha,viug ·become organized, baT•e been a:ble to •e,_>tablish the ten~bonrrule
1)y 1•,efnsing· to ,vork an3:· ]ouge-1". -A. v..ell, I think that is ve·_ - proper
1f tb.ey take tbat , -: iew.. The,J sbonltl ·b e the judge of that themsel~•es..
thiuk that "'-_a snfti,c ient length of time,. - -ith tbe - odem improv
m~ts .an('l 10,entioHs and the pre.s~nt ad,·au.ced state of the art.s, [
tllinh t-ha: ten holl.nl · work a da~ would gi\"'e everJ,"·botJy iu t:bis eonntr,~
a. good. fa.ir liv·iog,. that i.s th.o~ ·~who am strong·;.i Hl hearty.. The poor
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BELATI'ONS .B ETW'E EN ,LA.BOB, AND CAPJ'TAL.
1
and 'tb,e weak have 'to 118 to the wall to som.e extent, of 0011rsc. That ia
one of the natural laws tb.a't,we caun.o _ get over excep·t by p-roviding for
them bJ charity.,
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-:Ult AU OF ,STA1:lJ:S.T IOS.
A NA'llON ··
Q. Have 1·ou iu 'View the establishmeo · of such a natiO'ual 'bore.au. Oi'I
statistics w:hich has been spok,en of here!- . ·_ . . sbou.ld. t'b ink that wou'ltl
be a very ,desiEa1
ble. ·i nstitu.t i.o n 't o establis11. Any informati.on that could
be obtained that w·ould 'ten,d to advance the interests of the workin_gm4:·n
as,a,mass,,ars,a.class, not as,i udi.vid 1111Js1not as iron and steel w~rkem, oo:r
ae any o:o.e. particular class of· l bor,ers,, bot the ·whc~le ma -,· of workingmen, the. m.en. who di,g with th.e pick, who ,d ig on the ,roads st. 7~ Cents
a day (as th~y do i.J:! many parts of ·t he, country) as well a,s the other,& " that'
Id_.a.o.rn.
~
towa rd
,.
anyth mg
_-- wou_~
1~ sh a1.,d._ ...
-_ t"~,h- eimprov~e
-t.o,;r· t'-.,h:ecoamt·
·_·ion
of 1a·bor gene.m1'1:y· wonld ,ce.rtainl . be ·.- ery valuabl,e to ·t he peopJ.e.
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- .E .J ,O INT 'P BODUO';f ,O F C'A PITAL A -, D L1ABOB.
T:B E DIVISION O .
Q.. Tak,e. those meo. that ·, _ork at 7,5 cents a tlay,, fo,r ,io,s.~ oo, what
ooenrs to ,yon as a measure that mi..ght be adopted to increase the ·wage ·_
of tllat class of L1iborf-A,. I don't think .an,y thiog oonld be-,d one 1n 't hat
way. The·lowest class of labor · .ill get the lowest pay inevitably,. The
law of the ''survi"fal of' the fittest"- governs that. Where;labor is very
.carce ·t hat same kincl of la~r will sometimes get •12 a ,d3:y, as it _does.
in some places :i n the West; but where it j - so.p erabnndaut it, ill have·
to accept 75 ,c ents a day, ,o~,less~ I don't _thin~ an,y ki~d of legislation
wi1I ap_ply to such ,cases. Tbe best thing that kind of Jabor can d.o is to
-- d~J,-or 1·. ~
go, Wt
es,_ , w h ere +-'1 tb. ere,1. .-.. n.eed
~-:-. 1 and- .d· eman
Q~ If those labo-ren, were or,· anized au,l in a IH) ition. to, -_ ay ·w hetheI
they ·would or would ·n ot work for a give , price how ·woutll tha't o_pe ~-te f-A. Then the ~pie must pay or-e :for the 1>,r oducts of' tbeir labor,
and in retarn :mus·t charge more fo,r w,l tat tbe:y sell. ·Tb.e groo.t ·m,a ss ot·
tbe peopJe _o f tb.e oonntry ~ laborh1,g men, yo11 know~ . Th,ey· can ODIJ .
get,.a certain amoont oif ·food to eat. If ,cro1J:S-are. poor they will have to
S11bsist on short rations _; i:f ',c-rops are abundaut i't will be other,wise.
Q. But, ove·r and above 'it~ .11, ·t he co ntry accomu1nte . fro,111 ,year to
year, an,d wba't is accomalated is, invested. in busl~ .
Now if this,lower
grade of labor go,t better pay, anti .all grades above tba·t a~ the sa,me
timerwere. eleTated. in proportion, m.i ght no,t th,e re_-ult ·be 'ba't the ac"'
enmnlation of cap,i tal woold be t·l istribnted .·t ·t he thne .~ustea(l or·be·i ng
saved up for the, inture _-A. It n1ight-·b e; bot tbe re ·ult of' t' ,e .accn~
mnlation of capita] is new and further tle,~elop1uents of incln tr3r.. Mi".
Vanderbilt is 'b uild·i ng a ~ew· rood f.hro1~g-~ o~_r ;~,.~ te ~n .Har1 "sbu.rg
l\lMl\ .
Tha·t ,.r. .·a·p1· "Al
to Pi'••t~:tsburg'b ·t,O ·wh·1"'Ah he: ha.e
~ ,S D b
- cr1-·be
·._·. d · ·'2··r::
a,utru,
,■
IOwhich baa been accomula'ted, will _g ive employDJe1ot to a · g,e nt1mbe1
of people, ·a nd be red1 tnbnted am,ou.g th~m, ,'~ m_atter ,vhat per, oent.
't he ca,p italis,t ge-t s. It mi:ght be. bette-r if capital got a, Ie·.. , ,PB ce, ·- t.
and 'th,e balance we-u·t , direL~ly to ~ ··e people,, b11t I clon't ·k no,v :h o,v thn:t,
could be acoomplis·b ed by legislation.
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•
QI! I don't k ·n ow· that, it cool,d be done bJ ·1egis1ation, but let it be
tlone.by wba.te~er meanrs m.i.g ht be found p·raclticable. Don.'t yon think
that the m0"1"8 intelligent as a class the workingu1en are the more.wages
they e.ao com·mancl f-A. I ,do. I t'bjnk tb _-_ ,comn1on sebool system in
Hlucat1og 't he ,c hildren of the laboring peo1,le will improve their· w~es,
because the ditlerenoe between coD1n1on l:a llor an,1 Nkill .-~·-.1 J- ·bor, so
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:27
RELATIONS .B E.T WEEN. LABOR A.ND C·A P TAL.
termed,. is r-e ·Jty •neh 1less tban the common laborer thinks. T'he oo,m .
mon laborers a.re kept b,y these assoe1ati.ons ou·t of many·branehes which
they ,ooold go into, and 1.n ·w hich they· coac__d.,e arn large wages. _
Q~ Do you ·t h.·ink that an. increase in tbe ·wages.of the common labore·r
·woo.Id necessarily imply an iuerease i.o ·t he wages of tb.e e ~ abo~
h·i m ,~A. u ·n1ess it w,e re taken oft: the classes abo e, w:h1ch would
have to be clone in order to benefit ·the lower classes, I 'think i't oould
,ool!ld resolt in. nothing, ·~-xoopt increased p:r iees,..
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Q·. .B,n t migh.t not some o:f that increase of wa,ges come from the pro
po·r tion ·w·- ieh capital tak . · of th.e joint procl'net, thus lessening tb,e·
.,_ r th:e~tu··t- ore .-a nd.,·di stri'"' b·nt1ng1t"
•- 1m·o iec1·
'"-l'ff
aeeumn1a·~..on,o:·f cap1'"tal.1.o,
·· ·1.aw,j,&0
as to ,s a·tisfy the ·.ants of the1waJ,e-·1a·borers. ._.- A. If that oonld be don~
i , ,ould be 'b etter. If th.e parties controlling ,c ·pital were ,employed:
simply as superinteud-ents, a.imply to distribute 'the prodoc,t of labor., 'it
•ou'ld be ·b etter, .a n d p.i~ba-b ly would be. righ.t . Bnt, y,oo. must have
~ome incenti·ve to acti,oil, an ·· unless capital can get a rem.un,eration of
4., or ,o, o,r 101, or 20, or 100 per aen.t ., as, the.case :m ay· be, we..sba l no·t h.ave,
auy io.d nstrial progress.
Q:. No; bu.t ,d.on't you thin~.that.if th_e laborers, without,whom. capi!3l
woold not be employed a,t all, were able to ma·ke a geneml demaad fo,r
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m ore. w ·ges and to, ·r efuse to work unless tbe d.emand w.a s comp,J ied
with, th.e N$n]t. woold be that capital would beJ1U ·ti as eager for·in.ves't ..
•m,e·n·t · t 6 per cent. as, it i1 now at 8,; that,1s,. when i"t was once satis~
tied th.a t it oollld. do nothing unless it agreed to pa_y· the i.n oreased
w~ges..· - ~. ..It ·m 'ig~t., b.e· soJ bn..'t I think the:resul~ of the accum·o lation
of ,c apital ts industrial d.evelopme·ot.
Q..-·•T'h.eo., in what ·w.a y do yo,u think tba,t the education. of the masses
is to be of any .a dv.a ntag,e to them in gi'ving them high.e r wages t-A.
In the distribution of tb,e wages .a.1nong the, laborers., For inetanee,.the
rollers iu. the rolling-mills,. som.e of them m.a k~ from. 120 to 130 a day _;
w'IJe:reas, tb,e laborer, :b '"s ''heJ.p er,"' makes o,n ly·... 2 ,o r ts a day·. Them is
~at complaint,amongst. · -em oo. acoooot of the roller making so m.uc.h
·more wages. Now if :you could break n.P that,and bring up the genera·1
average it would be. a good th'ing~ It,18 not that,ieapitalists live 80 much
better than the workingmen, bat it is, that so·m e ot ·t he wo king.m en ,a s
.. b· o•th_en, ]'1"' .v e so muc , L1re.1
.... .U..,., " "'Ln; ,
--h , . nels:u:
~ni1.,·b~ o:; r&
oompa:red ·w1.t
11,,~r 'ibllii.D t_c__etr
~ Jaly .idea is not intended ·t o be confined to •·· ·n y one, class of labor,.
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all Jabor tha.t p-rodoees anything. Now, if yon. imp~ve the co · di.tbJin
:_f tbe common.:people, they ll"ho are at the bottom will g,e t bei'ter pay·,
wQl they not 1-~ Yes, sir; · I thin·t . so~ I think tb,e co-mm.on laborer
will g-et better wa,ges, when ·h.•e is bettel' ed:ncated"
Q.. Then will not the r-esult, be thatJ o,f' ·t he, price realized for th.e. joint
·- prod.notion of Jabor a1n d capital oonioined., lt1bor will be able to ·t ake a
Ia-rge:r·share t-han.- it now gets; thus lesse,n in .., it may be, the accu·mula,...
ti.o~ of' ea·pital 1-··· ··~ Yes, t·h ·t . ·is true; bn.t they would ·have te pot 'it
in the, saving . bank·.. Or else, if t'h e Gotv er.n.m ent debt was paid off, it
would have to be :in1t ·ested. i.n de.velopment in 1some way.
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thiu.k ing of wa.g ,es incr . ased -to, soch an ,e xt.eat as to be e . peoded in the
im·provem.e nt. o·'" th.e c.on•dit.ion of the laborers themselves, ,g iving t·b em
'b etter home ~, better food., bett.er clothing, and. better eo,nditions ,geo1e mlllr .·t ·w ould 1seem tbait there are vast 11umbers of labore.rs ·h o are
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oft-be land are the sufferers, from all tb,e se orga:nization.s •Of skilled labor•.
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
28,
RELA:TIONS B,E TWEEN' LABOR .AJID CAPITA L.
Tbe paddler· ,teb ,13~50 a ,lay, whereas the ma:n. who works uud,e r· him.
geta only 8,1.25. There is ao t-end.eney whatev er in. the onions te, ad~
vanee the,-oondition ot tlOBB· men . Tb.e unions.a re. combinations a·moo·- ·
,1'ertain cl.w ea of the w,ork:ingmen to adva·oce tb.ei!r ,o,wn peculiar inter~
,~ sts .a n,d wages, and ·t he,result is disaater to· those laborem wh.o are not
,~o able to comb!ne. o ~ ~tn mllinga, lH1:e ·m ~., that ~ , men en~,r:ett
,n tbe.sam.e .bamne.s s and iu tb.e same branch of the btunneas,. get d·iiler.:·D't rate .· of' wages ,800tlir ding to th.e ir s.k"ill; but i' rolling· iron it ia the·
$BIDe as in di,g gin,g ~oat, a man gets so ·much a ton wllet'ber he 1s ,a good
workman ,o r· a bad workma n. Bnt a good · -or.kman will ·· ake more
tha11. a 'l~ad. one, by no·t ·b urning .is iron an1I iu other ways.
·nes ..
·.· We are ver, glad toha -:-e ,y ourvie·w--- o the .• · ,q_
., The OHAIR.M A.
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'T he WtrNE -·· __.~ Well, I wish it uaderst ood thait I did not come, here
,:"olnnta rily ,a s a witness.
Tile UHA1:a11AN~ No; yon took. ·t_h~ s,t ·nd at the re~,ues,t of the oommi~ because,, after oonvers.i"n_g with ,y ou,, I thO"llRh·t yon were a very
in'tellig eut g,e,ntJ.ema,,· ·w ho ,cool,d make 1&0me valuabl e su.gge ~tions.
Adjourn,e d.
1
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N 'E W YORK,, Monday,
..
&p·tembet lO, l ,883~,
'T be commit t _ .· me : a·t .10 o':clook .a.. m.
I
BEL -T1'0N OP LABOE, '1 '0 LAND.
J ·. K. :·N,&AL1,s. sworn and examined;.
By the ·O:H.Am,HA.N :
Qoestion. Wbere do you reside - •A ns ·.•e:r.. In t'h,e cit~.. of New Yor-....
· o·n
·· o•
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e· 11.·• v. mt,
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to·r the last th·i r1~y years ..
Q. Yon present · : wri·t ten memori.al o, etatem . nt to th.e commit tee at
son1e le·o gtb !~A;. Ye ·, sir. .
Q.. T 0 • what does]i·t relate , · Aj! It relat.es. to the qu.e .tio,n of ·t he re:li·•
ti.on of labor· to the land.
Q.. ~ .0,1 m~y ,Atate in brief tern11s ~ ~ur ge·n · · al vie1:v,_ ,a nd, tbe sub,~tanee
of the. pa.pe·r yon. d1~s.i r,e to file.-.. · We start ·w itb ·t he. proposi tion ·t'ha·t
nlJ sustena ,ce to hnman lit1- and t'he satisfac tion of all hnman wa,n ts
lr .· deriv·e d from. labor upon the laud ,ao,d the spon·t aneous product ions,
,of the earth; 'that ,a ll social w,e altb 1s the product of labor upon lancl
.a ud the opportu nities which oocnp.a.n.c y of the land. afford . ;. tha·t ·w ith•out t , ·e la·nd. labor is simpl.y a,n ab,·:tractioo .and. can produ~ nothing ;
.: hat ownenh i.p of the land ,c a·r ries with it, the ownel'Sb.i p of 't-he persons
'\\"11.0 mu.s t liv upon the land; t,bat 1abor h,• s, been burdene d au.d d,e~r~oiled in a]l ~ ·es of the worltl; in barbaric. t'"' · e. 'tb·r ou,g b ownersh ip
of the ·1>e•r .· on of t ,be laborer, "· .m ore ei11lized tim.e s tbrou.gh t'he owner..
~11i(l of the land, We d.e precate ·t be :i<lea o,f pri·v ate prope.rt:v in. th e
laud whic'h is not lintited to occn1>ation cl,Dd ·improvement., :an:d ,es.peeiall.y
:_;..Ueh owoe·r .ldp,of the I·. n,d ,a .' enables tbe O'WI1er toe -clu.de fro . access
to t'ba.:t which he do : . not want those w·h o do ueed i't. We · •-gard this
Jnesti.ou of ooufl.i,c t be•tween labor and its employe rs, ,a s, far d · :p er than
th . mere stn1g·gle bet,ween them. Th.a.t i the poin:t merel ou w_bich
.be fricti.uH: of our. s·-[s.t em of t.r ade a ,d in.d nstry comes. Monopoly orf
·be :1au(l g11:- es JJ.ower t,o exclu(1.e· men from1the 1.;-n d. •· ·n d oo,mpels men to
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
KBLATI0:1''8 BBTWBBII LABOR Alm C.APITAJt.,;r
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n-o freedom of •CO.n tmct,, because there ia n 0 liberty on the. part of the
w•o rkman -rto ,e ombine h11 labor· wi.t h t.he land or· with these ,e lements
w.h ieh enable h:im to produce. ThiS:, of course,, iovol·ves rent, and by
its rnlationshi_p 'to money· ao·d the circulating medium involves 'interest..
Bo,t h of these. in this country am.oUDt to hundreds. of millions of doU.ars
each y,ear, ·which are a\•str.ac.ted from the _p roductions of labor, .and for
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which no return ·w hatever ·is made and for which no service is re ·.-
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We. hav,e. dealt v·e ry uni: irl,y with ·t he public land question. in this,
country ;. we h.a ve take that whie'b w·.a s giv•e,n to ·a s as. a ·t rust for tile·
r a,paeious. ud greedy
n'b orn g-eneratio.ns. to ~o,me .. and ,:iven :i t ov·e r to,_
corporations and speculators and ta 18,tates. ; ot. only am vaat tracts
in States h.e ld by our own people, but. th.e .mone;yed nobili.ty o:f E ·u rope
are .fonn,d ing in thi .' coun~y large estates, upon hicb American cltizens cann.ot eJJter withml't the privile,g e •Of the forei,g n, au.d . perhaps the
absentee .a ndlonl.
Qfii What evidence have yoo of that assertion ·:- a., I have no pos
iti,,.e ,e vidence in regard to ·t he ·1wst statement, because: I h,ave taken it
1.oerely fr.oni the reports · ·bich I hav·e seen. in tb.e _
papers.
Q. What .reports h.ave you seen -A. That there. was a p~ty co·m}lO.Sed or··L ord D ufferin aod a number of oth,e rs, whose names · do, not
re~ember, in this coontry prospect.iog· and taking up•lands"
Q. An item thajt we bav,e se en in eireulation in the :p apers reeenflJ,., f,_
Ai . ·. es; and also some time ago-some months ago.
Q. Go oo.-Ail• T·bere..a·r.e many·large estates iu this oountry. I ·w ould
Hay tn ·t ,there seems. to be a sort iaf s. , pers,t1t~on. that tbtse large estates
break. ·u p and fall ultimately into the hands of ·t he people; ·b,u t i: ·hat is
n.ot ·t rue ait all. Such •C _ es are o'OJ1y tbe e . ceptions. The role1is that
""°e., __·re oou·...:.
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- d,. increase
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t·'.h-. oonsl\01.l.
.t.n.-t11iY·
the.se: ].a- rge. e -·- ta..,·
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Q!!. W .l iat illustrations or evidences are there of .that assertion..-A.
The evidence of the large es.tales in this ci.ty., as th.e Ast.or estate,, the,
Lorillard estate..
•
Q. Those are n.o t a,g ricoltu.ral in their character7:........A.. Not agrtcultural, but 1t depe nds upon their powe·r t.o mouopol.ize the land..
Q. ,o you ooosider t lb e mo-oopo,lization of land m the,city the s.a-m elA. T·h.e sam,e p. recisely.
Q1 The same as the m.onio1loli.»atio:n of agrie,11ltu·raJ t111Cts,t Which is
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·tween them-they are. ·p arts of the same system.
Q. It depe.nids upon the ahilorption of ·values rather than of surfaces t!1:·.Yes, it d~~8 UJ!Ob their abilitf t,o control wha~ I think St~ Mill
terms ·t he rmeaned mcrement, wh1c . means the mcrem:e·n t tbat. bas
be.@,n robbed from.labor"
Q,. What iostanoos of such absorption of large uneam,e d i·ncremen:ta
are the~,_ia thi&i oityl-~. I was iJODlg to men·t ion the A.&to:r estate,
th-e Lorillard estate, the Rhinelander ,e state, and a l~ge n·u·m ber ,o f
ot'here.,
Q~ How extein,eive and hurtful do you take these absorptions of' the1
land in. this city to be that y,oo 'h a,v e. me.n tioned t~A~ I .I IJll no,t ,.a ble to
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,Q. What _h urt bas the _Astor·abs.o,r ption, for· insta11ee, done,_ or what
bann doee. i.'t ,do·; w·here is the evil f-A.. It prevents the workingman
from. obtain'i'11 _, a-·home without nm·l in.g.
Q.. Does it, The work.1ngman obtaiDB his b,0D1e,by ·b uying .i .t, does h.e
not t ·w onld not th'is land haw ·been just as ·v aluable at auy given.time
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when the workingman o,r any other man ·wanted to pu_rchas~ -~~,i"f the·
owuershit) bad bee.n ont of the As,t ors, u in th.e A.store t-A.. With the
,sam.,e ~y~tem,. yes~
Q. I ,do, uo,t mean with the sam.e sy,s.tem; but ,su.p,pose.tb,e Aston :had,
owned onI.y· the h-o'lues they lived in, wnuld ·no,t · he concentrati.o,o. of
oomm,e:ree and wealth at this, po,io·t , which. is, the result of great events,
the.develop,m,e.nt of the-wb.ole continent and worJd .. wide changes, ha:ve
given t.h e same val:oe to•th,e land witbont referenee 'to the ow.ne·nthi.p,
wbetb,e r in the AS'tors or somebody else 1-- A~ No, sir·; I ·t hink not. Q.. Do )"On not , -· u.p_pose that to-day.all -'~be land- in this c'"·•, · would 'be
jnst a. . v.alo.able if' it. w: ··-, equallydi'vide,l am.o ng all the inbabit ·nts. of
tbe ei't,y as it i'.- now ·v·este.d in large trac~s_in single in_d ivid·~ a1.sf-At
·T hat, 'is 01ot . e JN>i ·t I make,. tba.t it sbon1.d be equally div.i . ded. There
ate,la.r,ge :num:'ber.s of lots e•:--·en :in this ei ty w bich :are n noeeup,ied,.and the:v
·would be ooenpu~d but for the power ·t o monopolize tbe·m.
Q. You d.o not contemplate ao. .arrangemeut ·b,v ,vhieh a m.a n can. get
a P:ieoo of land without b·u ying and 1•aJ i ,g fo:r it :·- A. . ?ro, s.ir.
Q,. ·y ·o u say· that tbe fact that t 'h e Astora, o,wn -o much land is, an .injury to workingpeople in gettin.g honses. I am nottryio,g·to controv,e rt
yo~r idea, bot to see ·wh.a t i.t is based n.p ou.-A~ Witbont Nnt,
Q And J our re-p ly is that -be.A .to•rs ha,Y-e eome to hold this nnearned
·
·i t: is
· a va·1t1.e w·.h'".1ch increases
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e -· t m
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a t'lme goes on, 1·
A. That de.peod,s on ,oireum. -,tauces;i
Q·i It i: _doing so in 'this city .........A. . ·es.
Q. Now,. sopp~ _a t _a ny particular time a. workio,g man . · ants 'to get
.a home. :i n New York City, ean he 'b oy it just as cheap1y of the Asto.r s,
or of these o _her la-r ge owi1.~s as he could if th.. · Astor e ·tabe a.n-d these
other. large esta'tes <lid not ,e.x ist a.tall under a single owner !-A. I tbi.nk
none of these estates sell any 1loos~s..
Q .. If tbey did ·n ot own · bis. la.n d would it not be jrust as , aluable :in
the ha·nds. of anl.bod.l e]se :·-Al th:ink not, bemuse then i·t would be
·in the m.a.rket .
Q.. W'h at ground. · a-v·e you fo saying it would b · -. in the market at
any low,e r price 1---- .:. It. i.s, not in th.e marke·t at an.y p·riee now.
Q.. I do not know in. reg.a rd. to that1! A. The la·n ds are w.ith'be1d.
Q:.. That ·is the reason yon ·.- uippose they will·not sell tbe, land at ·t hat
mark.,e t price w·b ich other or ijmaller holders would ·b e ·w illing to take..
Do_you say tha·t !-A.,. .es, sir..
Q. How do yon know tbat·t Do you know individual owners would sell
the land a -, - chesper !-.A.~ I l<now that from the general law of trade,
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supp1;_.-, ,-. nd,' ,d.eman.d,:; wh ere a part o~t' a th·'
. 1ng 1s,
'u.ue
. i_ ·e price
JS.
rai ed.
·
Q - Now,, -__ s1unin,g th ·.t, w1m:_you , tate is coneC"t, is i·t no · a faotthat
the.:Ast.ors, the Lorillanls,, and . be Rhinelander family o .· · .- , oompa:mti,..ely, bn·t · ery· small portions o.f the ).a nd of th"s city t-A. No; the
Astor'1s o,wn a ·v·er1"·J~,r ge -·hare.
Q Do, ,you. mean ve~y large in re_g ard to•it- surface o · onl.y· large,in
,alu _. !-A.. I :m ean a large e · .tent of surl1·,cet
_
_
Q. Do tb,ey own one.,twe.ntieth part of the surface •Of Manhattan
l'"land _! -A., Ye~ ., . ,i r; far more than that..
Q," Combiped., w'b at proportion of th.e entire. surface of thi~. island_do
those estates you l1ave nam·e d.,own T'- A.. I bave not examined ,carefully.,
Q. Do you :feel coufi,lent ·:hey ·bol.d ,ooe~eighth !-A~ I say I have not
examined that. carefuHy.
Q. Jf ·the3~ d-o :n ot hold more than-one,.elghth part ,o :fthe-surfaeei0ftbe
1Sla:ud they canoo,t do great. harm, can ·th,e~r 1-A. I think tbe with
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
,..
3,1.
RELA.TION·S BETWEEN LABOR. AND C.AP'I TAL
tlrawal of 011e..eigbtb of any· commodity from the market •. ould create
ilist,1,1rbanoe.,
Q:. Here is Brook'J)·u,,, · · ith oommnni,cation by ferry· for a _g reat man,y
)"e&n and .·ow l)y 'the B,r ooklyu bridge, and here are ferries tot'· .e Jersey·
shore an,d the opJKISite side ,o f t'he B 'o dson, and e,v,en if the Aston ,an.d
Rhinelanders an.d oth~r families did not own land h,ere in New York,
would it not ·be tbe bet-ter way for . orking people to avail themeelvea
of ·t hese means, of transit and _g et homes · ery .1n.och cheaper a little
fo:rther ofl"!-.A... Tbat · he:J. hav·e done for the las.t :f ifty yea-rs, and as fast
as they ba;ve •d one it the laud around them i ·o oltght up by·s1l001llators
an,t l tbey aN sbo · in again.,
Q. Through 8J)OOU1ators -~-A .. Nearl,7" ftfb..· :years,ago tbe.price of land
on Long J ·.·Jantl was as, high as it is n.o w..
Q. Tbat bi, a fact, that you kno , about, that fift:r years ago the 1•rice
of real estate ou · ong Isla11d was as high sub .tantiaHy .as, it now is!' In
!C:!Jnmo,
I F!k~-11 Ila 1Lifti annAD
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,
au'
V~r~ .-_., 'b
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Q,. W}l.at parts d.o you meau ,f -A. · he 1,arts no·w ocenpied.
Q. Of course the thickly· SC't tled parts were -:·, .·Joab'J!e, then a;~.they ,are
no,w·, 'bu.t bow ,vasitas to tbesuburbau.parts and. tbe cheaper po.rtiom-s !----A. 7be priec oi" the laud in tb.e ,s uburbaJJ part . wa:s a.bout ·t be same ,as
it is n,ow.
Q. Do ,you .1nean that t..be sam . identical land wa1s as , ..a].uab'le then
as no·w !- .-·. The same ·1aud.
Q.
Is not a1ut of the Ja·nd. ·mor .-. ,Talnabl,e n:0,v th.au 1t was t ·en 1'- A,
Oh, yes; 1n.nch more ,,.·a1.oal,le ,, be.r e it i · bn'i lt u.p , of coarse.
Q. Then it tbllow·s tb,a.t th,e same 12111,d , or some of the same land, was
less aluable 8 ' that tim,e tbau i 1s, now I A. Some of the la·n d was
held -then at ,~111rice eq_na'I to what ·,t would now 'b ring. ,
Q. I sur•Jklse :·he gro, th of Brooklyn. has, ,g one ·i n anotber direet:"on,,
and left th,,t Jaud ,a.bout a it 'Was - .;t\ ,. .;.;1 o ; it i ,. entirely b1uil't u_p
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DOW.
Q.. Th.en :uuoccupied land, or laud tha. \¥a1.: . nnoccupied twenty ,~rears
ago2 ·. as, then hel<l at as bigb 11,ri.ees a _ it now br1ugs : Some unoeou-•
J>ied I ·ud was, then :b eld at as :h igh a pnoo a,.·. tbe sa·me land now will
brin._g, although ,occupied and :im,proT'·e d by cit~ building1s t-A.. I d.o not.
mea,n the im1Jro,rements. I. m.eau . he ).and.
Q ~ Although the. l :ntl 1 · , occupied!'--A. I ,es\i
Q~ Bottb~ 1,lTOund re11t •. 'onld ·11ave been tbe -:am · then as,now. , :ow·
e ~tensive i• , that fac't !-A. I wisb t-0 ,•-BI" that that wasoonnected . -i'th
the, lio . of 8P ciolatiou of l83!t
Q~ It ,vas .au .abn.o.rma.J. stat · of 'things . A. 1 - nru,s. probably an ab..
normal s,tate of thingsi
Q. Ancl ,d uriug fitl.y y·e ars,tbesame land bas beeo ,..-ery much cheaper!---A~ At times it has flo.e tuated up ancl d.own.
Q. I . ·a · _p eaking of a 1iermauent state io f 't hin.gs fifty years ago as
,oom.1.ared with t.be permau.ent condition of the prese·n t time f A. There
is no tlermauent condition of the priloo of lan·d any mOM. th.an ·t bere is
1
,o f oornmodities..
Q _ You . ~Sil to de-r,e l,o p the fact that _hese lar,ge OWD.erships ·reaU.y
do mischief - ·A, · es.,
Q, If they do .n ot clo, an~'" su'b sta.o tial mischief tb.e 1•ublio ought .n.ot to
get that im1,r,essiou. You ma ,go on further · ·ith the other poiDta you
ba.d in mind.. Yon were s_p eaking of' th · •absorption of the ]and in .single
ow.nershiJJS, and i'ts injurious eJfeet.s. in city a:u.d. in a.gricul.t:u ral regions
alike.-•A . · .· e e ·il Hes ia. ·t he, nature of real estate. as property.
Q Is y·o ur theory thi.$, that indiridoali sbo11ld n.ot o ·. n real estate,
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32
KELA.TIO .·
B'E TWEEN'
.A.BOB . ·ND CAPITAL ..
co•mmuni·t y ~o·nlill own it - .A . N~ ;. my th.eory ~s _that the
in.d ividual should o,w n that which he needs; that. the use 0 land beJonga. to th,e man. ·
Q., Would ,y ou g1v·e hilB what is called ia ·t ll.e law th fee ..s.unplle, the·
t,i.t le abso·1ote io bimsell and heirs, aceordin g to th . lee,o.-. =nheritanoe .A. .. o ;, not according to the rules ,o f inheritance·.
Q. You would no · gi ,e 'h im the chance to dbJpo.'ie of it. bv will. '· -:-A..
:·o; I would . s~te 1 . regard to the .e large _estates that ·oine of them
ibut tha;·; t:he
1
are sobstan.tially _enta:Hed., as far _~
m informed ~though Id? not
know o,f my own .k nowledge), by thus proc.e'..s, by the tatber tleeding to
the, 8'J,o ,vbil he is l e·t living., and throuw:h fa·m ily traditi.on aud parental
iulloe 00 insisting ·t hat ·t hat shall be done again it can be pe.rpetoated
to the latest enerations.
Q. Assuming that the fa·tbers conti' ue 'to produ.oo sons, an.(1 that the
so,n s continue. to do :as, the. fathe.r s, ba, ·. don.e ;, bot is it not the general
fa,ct, ·t hat real e ·.tate, likeperso:n.al p•.o operty, nnlle.r the uatu . . o,p eration
of the laws of inbeT.itance. and of d vise,, breaks up a.n,d i·•· redistr"'b<!!
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nted·l ~A.. Eo, sir; those .aF .· the ·xee·p aons to · · e rule.
Q. Ar,e J, 0U able to me , tioo. a great many insta ees, asid.e from the
.Aston and those _yon have gi've.n. ·here, ta ing th.e. whole oou try t ·•,g ether 7-A4 I ean mention a num·b e·r in many part of th.· country.
- Q. Do ot1 ,soppoae 500 oonlcl :mention a hundred ,-A. Ye ., si.r.
Q. Oir · t . at :L on. could m. ntioo . · tho ,1saud f-- -A~ Ye ·. ,s.i r.•
Q.. W at relative proportion , ould 'tho~ · ·tho-n. · . nd O· D.ershi.pg 1 _ , r
to the great masa of real ,e smte in the oou·n·t ry 1-A. I · ould. say tbat
iu. cases wh,e re, those estates ai-e broken up, they do not pass into the
hands, of the peop,l e, · hey pass ·int-0 the ·h aods of the class to which they
belong _; the), p~ Wtto t:he .· ands · ·f tho ·. wi.th •capitJ!il and .means
enou.g b toabsorbt'heminto·aooth.e:r Pstate.. Th .··t is, h·· t I mea.n to say..
Qi! What would )Oll do · i:th man',s ._ state - b.- he die - ·- A. I
·o u]d have hlt, executo~s giv·. u a certain J ngth ,o f time to di. pose of
that laud 't.o tho :'8 ho ,e d it for oocnpati.on, of eour. -e to ·be divi:,le<l
amon,g ~e bei:r s .a · d legatees,. wi·thoot _xceediug the lim~L
Q. Wha·t would the e eeutors do witb t·he proc-e ds . -· ·.• 'T11e proeeeds I should not obj ··_.·· to goiu.g to i -be. heirs
,Q Soppos.e they 'take those ·p roeoods and bo,y u_p 1001. •· land. '--Al!
Th.e y cannot do tba·t unde·r the Jin ·1.t ations u hi.c·h I propose. I pr-opose
limitatious which ..·'ill no,t allow tba-t to · do·oe. Tbe difference be-·
twee·n. real esta : and person.al p.rope·rt3 1 . well kno·w·n, I .uppo." , ,g enerally.. In the ftrs.t place, land is, not ·1,>·r o Jetty in an,y . -u.~&. ,s ense as Wtd
own personal prope-rty; i.t is no,t the prod11ct, ,of a ;- y :1abo,r ; "t is n.o t •
18,ubjeot w·hi,c h •Can be i.nereased .a s produc.tions of industrv ean. be in..
•c reased on.demand bei g· ade, buti . lim1ted,.abso,lately limited. Tbe·
d.o main of ev ry to·wn, ,ci.ty, and·,o ountry is limited :; it is a limJted e _~ten
which canno·t be added to,.
.. . p rod
.. ·ed
"' I ts p1.-uuoe
-..3
t'"'tvene · ·- 1s
,. not
Q• B', u t- J·,. its
.·.· _o.c ti"' ven.ess, 1·
. 'lmi.t
· -·. .-.o..l!\
Q. In the .ame sense you .··ght . · :Y that the ttize of piece. of personal property "'s l1uutool ;, it can occupy only .so, much paee-A. I cto
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not mean th,at..
·
Q~ Go ri . . · ,.t o · ·~t ,y,ou.r e:x planation..-A. meant that there ooold
be -no inc~ of supply, as in commodities. Whe.n th.ere is an. ,e
~ i . -e demand it produees an ,excestdve sup,ply in response"
Q., If you ,c an increase the p ,r od.n etiveness of la .d do you uo-t ,inereaae
the aupply -of Ja·n d, in one sense !-A. The supply ti.lat eomee,from laud.
Q. If you make an acre p-r oon ~. ·• twice as 1o·u ch. as, before yon have
two acres of land, _p ractically·. ~A., In that, sense it can be increased.
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
33
R'ELAT O S BETW£EN LABOR AND CAr1TAL1
- Q. Is not that the preci-e se11se in wb·ich ,yon can increase JJerso11al
pro1Jert3 ,:......_A •. No, s·i r; ·l on can add another thing of the same size and
Nb.ape el·ei:y wa3r.•
Q. Precisel1·; but th-en you b.3ve got two.. Have y·o o ·not, got twn
acres. of~ lantl by makin,g · the one twice as. v.a1oable. .as it, was, before;
aud t~,at ,y ou can do by ~ml?ini.ug labo,r with it •' A . Wei.I, it maybe
d.one,. but I b .. ·_, e not · .eea. ·i t (loue.
Q. It. is a ·,...e.ry common thi.ug.. They have d,one i't up i_n .·· ew Hamp~
_•.bir•c by putting .m anure o-n the ground, and plowing it in~-A~ lf that
fact, that a m,~u can double bis ]and would. preveut. b·is w.a utiug more,
or· " ~oolid iuduce 'h im to part with ou.&half ,o f it.- "
_ ,Q. That .wa,3 'be, if h.e had no·t th.e means of' i•proving the ·w·hole of'
it.-A. l.11 tllat .. use it might be &dd to ·oo.increased • .
Q.j ~ ·!1:t suppose that m .- y·o u sp ·.ak of~ whose estate you are dispers,.
ing, sell.s t·be land, .aai yon wisb to ha -,e bin1 or his ex,eeutors do, ·when
·OU ,consi-cl.er· his power to increase the ,-alne of the la-nd., shonltl he not
be all.owed to reinvest iu land., boy ·· a1111're an.cl pot it on ]and tha.t is
"~o:rtbJe,s~, it. may be · -A. I 1S,ee no objt.~tlon to, that. I d.o no-t proi,ose:
a limit of · ha·t kjnd.
_Q. I tboog·b t yon _proposed. a limit on tb.ie a·m oont of land a man
s.h ould. oc,cu1~.l .. Yoo do not object_·to the rein,·estm nt. in. real estate,.
'then, if a11nan makes it valuable T-A . .Not wbere ·i t is opon the sam,e
tent .n.f
....,-.:l.'".a-·-~E•e
v . .· ~w--1r
Q!! Why i.s it .n ot just as well for hi.in to keep bis p roperty i.n ·t hat
sa1.ne 1•ieee of land
to sell that piece of land and buy anothe t-A~
It ·11 a~great tleal better, so fa·r a,s fhe 11,n t~lic 1.u te,r est i,s., concerned.
Q. 'T hen w·bJ· ·i1s, it n.eeessar,y or·rigbt, if yon are to allow· tbe· reiD.-est.m eo·t , of the estate in Jan,d, to oompel the e tate to sell that wh:·rch it
al~ady has f- A. Only on a question of p·nblic. poli~y.
Q~ That i ·. ju ·t what I am. as'king you;. why a a qoesti,o n !)£_pu'b lic
policy ought i.t, to be.do,n e 1-A~ It 011gbt to be dou.e.bee~use w'bile ther-e
are peo·ple w:ho.·need land and have not 1 · nd,, t'b ere should be ,, ome :p ro1
,11 :IJ
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as
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or our 1,·oblic policy h:y· ·wbi,ch it could be obtaiued~
Q. - ·u , the ,sam1e parties w·ho are to bo3 this e. . ta,t e •OD sal,e may jiust
as well take tbeir ·money .a nd put it iuto tbe other l.an.d i"n wbi ~Ji tbe
1.,ro1.erty of' tbe estate wi.ll 'b e invested a.fter 'l'be sale is made . Unless
thiti 1~ to be a ,g ratnito 8, distribution or a vesting o · the 'land in the p·o b!:i,c and. re11:ting it ou.t by t h.e p·nblic I ,do not see.th.at: anything is,gain•e d ;
but there ·m ay be'i! Yon ,c an ex.p lain i.t , perhap-· . Yo·u would ba~•e the.
lant'la of the es:tates sold within a lim1.t ed t1m.e. W.h at else would you.
do in 'the ,di'stribotion of a ·man's pro·p erty·$.hat is d·ifferent from. th,e pres.~
eut •Ortl~r ot things ·-A"' I wot1ld put real estate upon the .s ame hasi:s as
_p er!. onal property is 'held.
·
,Q, Is it-not now , , A. No, sir•
. (). WhJ, nott·- A. It reguirea, a certa.in process of law to be gon,e
llis:1 00
thrioo.gb..
·
Q Very slightly different t:........A. Tbe recordm.g o,r deeds.
·Q . .B u·t is thet-e an.s substantial dUference !-A. 'T here is,. It is u-,.
snm.,e<l that a man is
sion.
Q 'l s not· ,g ma·· o
- !I!
-·.
I'.'
0
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"
in possession of that of w·bieb he 1-s. not i·n
-
·
1._. . l of'
l,o;D ~srADC1
l..•-1V~: ~~ '"'00
·.-. t~·_•{U e
. :. :. . ]nnd
l'
' -
I
1. . . . - '
thn·
t· he
ooen··p1·:e.al
' ai
..
-
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..
··' · . ':I&. ,·· ·.. _.' ..
I~
possesA· "Tot
-·.-
· 4!
~ , . · ._r
no.less he oooopi.es i"t..
Q. Is be not ]os.t · · mncb as a man. :is in posses . ion of a horse 'h e owns
but that another man is_~ing and paying ltJre ~r l~A. N?+sir•.·. .. .
Q~_ Why notT-A. -t 1s 1 , th,e .natore of the thioa 1t.sel£ ~1 11e b.01-sem
a, val,u~ whieh baa bee~ produced by labor, ll;y care,.by e.xertion., the,
,3 -(J 2
(5 LAW)
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
BEI.AT.10:r.iS BETWEEN L ,ABO,K AND
CAPITAL,.
pu'ttin.;: forth of•'human efforts. The ]and is a thing ·which has.not been
so prutlnce il.,
(~.. s tltere mueh substance to th.at d:istincti.on !'- A,. I tb1n·k there.is.
Q~ '\ .?'hat is, the land w·o rth before labor, human effort., ha ., been pn.'t
on it ........... ·. .. It is ·w orth in some places 810 or ·15, .·. o acre
QI Tb.at, is beeau . e, '11:abor bas been put- on Ja.n d ,so, ,1,e · here el·e c.]nse
,
.
,• t·, b een
· · 1u1.
, t·., 'b
· .. ·, · ,, , ..o· ,"
. , , t·.ue
'L ·
bJ . - -···. • Y·.·.·e·· ,• b 11,'t" 1..:"'·t 'bc.. t'ii,Q!B·· u,o
. y· · 't.' h e.. ·owner
c·1,.a1ws
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lan,t
l ·i t essential who pn ts.it, the·re !-A, Y,es,; I think it shonltl belong to tbe one w·ho 11uts 'i t there·.
(l..
Q. Th:at may be; bn.t the fae·t tba;t fhe valu.e is there •.1.o ~,s not tl :pend
on "Fho did. the Jabor~, That is,com'bined. with the land. n other · ord,s,
why is not kbor.,, ho·m· .n effort,,jnst, as, n . eessary to make land ,o f any
,--a lne as it i.s to, ·ma.ke a hoe band le or a ·p low,· hare or a domes.tic ani1nal of ,~aloe T-A~ It is undoubtedly, but 'tbe p rice which land .•. iJJ bnn.g
<·oe•.. 11 cit I u \"'ol 1 ... th rt t, bn t in v,nl ves ·aDot h ,e r ·t:h i u g en ti rely·,, ·w h.i~Qb i the
. 0.u,, or·
"' g t hi. 1e II an d i,om
4t..
1)1.''.1 \·1,. 1... ge o··f ex·cI_ns,1
• excIud. 1n.
oocnpaucy 'b, ,y t-hi· e
Jl~ o 1de1
- Q . It ma;y be easi,e r· to avoi d tbe e·fTecbJ of. ex•c1.usion from t 'be. nse of'
1>e1·8onal propert,y becau .·_ other JJ · ople ean produce li.ke person.al property 1nore rerdily, but in tbe· principle itself is there any difference A.. . ~10 not , '!Ce any 1n the pri.ucip]e itself, oD]y in its app1i.c atiou.
Q •.Then it 'i s , dHference in deg.me alld not in priuei.ple, an,d that is
w'l1at I W'a~ askiua you abont., We have occasion to use ,d iffer ·nt policies i 11 rrfe.:rence to the one from t.h ose 1 n re·f erence to t Ile ot b · r - i ·t m,a y
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b·-, and on.r laws recognize it to some extent, but it; is,_a.·ma.tte·r ·of d tail
ratber than of principle,.
Now,I had yon other points i'n your a 111d 'that
1nay not ·be touched upon ·in root· pa;p r !-A.. No,; I 'tbiu'k not. , I wi~h
to a:v that ,v . regard ·i t a. . pos, ·ib.le fbr Congress to revoke the J:anu.s
·h i ell. have be-e'n .sq nan deraed n.·p on tbe railroa.d .• , . ·speciaHJ , ··h ,e re they
hnTe bren forfeitetl by DOhm
COtnpHa.nce 1\;i.th the 'terms.
,Q. But whe•r n l'he gI"antee,s have compH .d W'i'tb. the term,s of th . ,g ran.t,
d,,o )moo under , taod thHt tllere is au.,- J) racticabl.e wa,y of reeo,~,e ring them
to t:he ·pnb1ic -A,. Only ·,,th re1 tbe ·• gra.:o'ts, we.re not in gootl faith. to
·t be pu b,li.o~Q: \'\"here,.by the fitatotes that a.re np.un tho :r eeords of t'he il~'O'n11try, and
in aceorda·n ee \Vl_b those statutes,, tbeeom:Jta.nies hav,e eutered into posse~sion arul lu,v .~oomp'l fed with · be conditions imposed, tlo, you under ..
derstnnd fh.•. t fh~re i:s r1ny wr .()~· to get tb~ lands, fro,m tben1 again __ .. ,.
I an1 110,t a ,cons,titntional lawyer, iStiH I ,s nppos.e that the righ ·t of ,e:mi'i ~
neut domain ,voul.d io.chllde that au tb1ug:, .h ich was in. th line. o·
equity and just.ice1
Q~ Bt1t you 'kDO·W that i;be rigl1t of e·mine ·t domain. ia nev·e r e.xem•i,. ·•· 1
but b,'J' con1p •'D ation. to the 11,.r ivate owner wb~e Jan or property is
ta k~n ·f or 1u1blic u :!e.. ,•. ow,, is, it auv ndv~\.nt'a,g e to the, 1n1bl1c -A.. I
uud . rs.tand thatl and ·w here the, ·•. lands are in the. hand 0 f inn,ooent
partie~ th y can_no,t be reacb ed, of' course.
Qi .. u1,po,e that there was fl"aud in the original ,g mnt,. which, as a
niatt,e r of·1hct,. onl,d have to be .sta,bl1~bed,0if course, and suppose tbat
the pnbHc •. hould hav·e k11own of the. fr.· n(l since thestatote was ·p assed,
aud h·•_, e .s lept upon the fra1ut, .and meanwhile allow,e d t.'he .·· nion Paci' ,• llailro;ld Oom,J)any to mortga.ge it-~,lands to other pa·r ti .s,, who 'b.av·e
.ad,~iH eed heir ,c a,1,ital iu good fait,h , is 't here. an . w~r of ~ -tti.o« those
J.·1uls bu· b,~', pa. ·i·n g off th•e innoe ..ra·r. 'ffi ortga,gee · ~ - bold·~r~ ·. - ·A .. .No,
1~erllaJlS 11ot; st1Ht if the.principle ot"li.mita·· ion eou·l.d be · ppliled.it would
mm,e dy these resultsil
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
BEL4TIO:NS BETWEEN' .LABOR A'ND· CAr'JTAL.
·Q It mi_g ht be app'lied to all lands w_h ich lla,·e bee.n forfeited. and to
a11 :l ands remaining in tbe pobUc . .-A.. Yes~ Our poiut. i.s 1speciall,y lha··
the ·n.usqoa.odcred lands sh.oold be placed. nuder the homestead act
wh.olly. We llave petitioned f7or t:be last t i ty or forty years re,g olarly
to Con,gress, a od ,e ,~·,e n w he1~ tbes.e r.a1lro-.ad g1-ants · ,e1e J>a ·.ed. to bnvc
tbe railroatls,required to sell only to actual .s tt·i.e rs, but tb.e ·. h.o le thin,g
was i~oored~
Q, ·w e willexa
1.n e
yonr paper carefnlly an.d give it conside ·.· tio · •-
A. Than.ks ..
The memorial presented by MI·.. ln,g .a lls. is as follows:
· · -.· .. 87 ·. .. UDSO
s--- T,! REET,
·. ·
....
, · - --c
,,1.1 1EW
·y·, o-.1t.,.
V'
J;!'"'!'n•- 'I...-, 1-10
-.
. .Ill
~~M;o.ml(l'OT
l,~
~'
.,
To rh-8 &1u1klrial C.O.mitl.u :
GENTLEMEN:
I . ·m. · ~ q,u .t ed by the ,e xecuti:V'_c co~m ~t_tee o:r t:l le, N athmal Land Re...
form A.saouiat:ien to submit to your att.eotio·m.tb,e follew i11g proposi·tione .and suggestions...
(1 ..~The &11 · tenanee of human r :fe .andl tb ·. :s atisfaction o:f mate·ri~l wants are whol' y
.e pplied b:y lum1a:n ls bor row the l n,d amd its natura'l p,1 odlnc:t 1iona.
.
(it~ )-AU soeia1 . -· alth is tbe prodn,c t of labor, in:telli ren : y directed; but ~epriv,e d
,o f land and the oppo:r"t"uni-ie&' .·. bi•c·h oocu.panc_y of 't.he ·iand afi:Ol"ds ma:u''· exm ioDh
,o an. 11:r oduce not h.+eg ,o r +i'\"cn he 11,u t ftirH.11,
Cl )-Ae .a neceS&1r,; deducti,iJn from th a ho ·. e a::s'.'ionui,. the rigb t; of any and very
'h · n:nan bclug to Ii~ · depe·o d;5:, ultimately~ up~ his ri• ., t m oc up,;; ·. be la1~d · -~d to _ujo~ "the opportnnit~e - t~ la~r tl ~erooo _. It alm.neee~rHy Collo.ws that ,vhoover ·1 · ve.e
wl.t bout ltL u ,o f h1. own l1
n .. _s from off' t,h . la.bor f othen..
_~ ron,t tbe ru1rrHt■st t iw. · ., pr .1!~.e ttv~ I_bor b _~-~-'been. hnnl~e.d ~nd de.sJ:t.OUe.d , owner-sllu p of the, Jat.o r w ais: 1b~ met hod 1n bar bar.il.C- day.s hy w Inch the d,o.nn nu.nt clc M a.pp,r opriat ed to irtse1f th · greate·i- sbar,e of al I in(l e:t rinl rod.net-ion~. w··f b t·he dis.ap,pea.l'ee of1:;hati fo-l'm o_f Mt'\" it 11d.t. , lw.wev. -r·, t.'he appro·p,n ation of tbe p,r od nets of 1:1.hor ~y
thoM ·_- ho do no labor bas uot ceased.. For the, man who owns the la.n(l\ ev ot· , y
fnvna those who· ]i ve· and la!tor · itpo.n it aud is :a.'ble b · 11easou of 'bis e .eln si ve ,o,wneTabi p to approp ht , ~ l;ltg:e ,a, share of· the p,r odn tiot1 aB if be owo.e d _bli!·~·r pe180n . .,
.Fr_om onr l'a :w.s o, JHi ,~ate 1,,m peny in 1and grows the lordly· pri .i lege to e·x,c lude a l
other persom1 an(l tu proliliblt t-h _ app,. i,e ation of labor cxoop,t ·tt1KJ.n aucb ter1us as .shall.
please ,he, owne·r~
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The1fouuden ef on:r Govt"mme.11 t e 'Jlpos.ed they ·h ad remedied ·t,b e · ,ill a·t tending
Briti b land]ordism w Jr u t;hey 11MhibitJ@d t Ities of no,b11lit.y a.o-d abo.1 i.:s bed t.he right
of ?rimogen i tnre ~nd eJ:!taH;. bn tho poteoey of all th . .· !ti II ~.ad.he! - to the system .of
pr1 vat e pn.perty 111 I and,, w hu,h "! .•~ave reta1:o. _ , 'but wb~~ 18 ,su.bJect Jo noo,e ,o,f tl!lo
r.ei tm-inte or nsponsi bili ties wliieh e'h meter· zed the feud,a.1 BJ,s te •. Tbere are 11:-·
merous ~ta.ks Ill this. C(~ 111-ry fJJ' grea m.~ ni tude, and '&rhi?n u . gro"!·h1g larger e~b
_.r.. They · te hack. for a century or m,o.r-e. I ma::v me nt1on as an 10.stance one 1n
-m:bie: . i -y, w·b ich has f!fl:ea.d~ ·1y ad 'f'anood. for t,hl:00 C),Qartiers, o.f a century.. I", is now h1
the p · . ses.sio~ o( tb~ ·fourtJ1 wmer ation, and if) -v irtuaUy eut aUed in the family thro1ogh
a ti-atUtion " ht -h R ,qn1 res tL.,e .. · ··. _, sor to d . d,, iu his HfeUmc,. the es.tate to, hie ehl.1
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monopol)- of la.-n d enforces, ren.t , and which ·t tbe st-art takes ftoi01 Jabot"
more than t' ent.y-'live pet cent . of tbe·earuiugs of labo,r. Aside from wlla·t is. urro.aHy
e . 1braced in ttnt . ra -~., Fepain, and im.p,r ov,1::numtsll! the-.a nnual rental 'i , counted by
h.u ndrede, of million ~, and for whi.c b no latlor or r . ci pmcal service ·wba.te,v,e r is ,g. veu
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Throug._ a:ws f,oT ,enf-orcin~ ·p ayment of de'b ta, exac11:ioo of u 1lll'.J, and m.a'Di polated
1c11rreDcy; q uib~ ~ J rge ~oms ar,e eons _ nt I ahsorhed as,i·nter.est, profits ·O·f corner&,,.i,n
trade, atoek gam b~ln,gt ,&c... 1.bt>se 'h a va all to b _ ·bstraeteu fron~. the aonnal pr0tl.111c~
tion- ot'teo ·b'>;ortriun- the -~~hol,c plant; n'[l ui whicb im11ortant industries d,e pend and
·t hus as ma cri is, throw.in,~ mucb labor out of e1u:p loym_e ut alto;B e her.. 'T hen th@ffl
JJs th share hich fa ls to t b, -, m1p.l~J·ff and o .u,e r of ·th - pl a t b -fore it cu be dl~
·t e ··i ed w ·h a·t w ·• -.· a. sbnl I be pai.d tlu~ la,'bor,e:r.
Tb.•Friction of th i.~ w I o, 1s y~·m ·tu. lls ~111.. t bere-be,t we . n t h_e -~ :ployer a·n d wage
.. ~or _er:·· Th_ press re !IDde· w ilnch
h t t 1me~~ en~e.1\ and ~ hie be~lftta, th : - ntag
ouu.uu. bet. een t he:m, ,.es far ~ ee.p er tllan a_ny d I B("'" r1tr or coru pe,o, _'t1ot1 wlncJJ. fb ·.v·
respee ti·,~ely rec ·i v,c ; .f'?r 11nless t~,e employ · r is,a _ o,cap,i t.a1ist 0 _1· l:1 ndJo.rd,, or ,ccrtm hi ne~l
•. if ib thmn,, he ea·o ot, l ow v . r 41 · pe - -_ . ,. ,g rea.tl wrong th • other~ 'T he ,o rker ,cou1!d
not, be tse ·on lr oppressed but_that 11!- Jtt, lan(Ue~ and h:~~e e· 8; '!,ecao.~ 't-.he only rnC!OU rse for .s elf~ mplo3,1ne·u t . the, land, 1s. mo1Itopol1z:ed. ~rlb1s Jou lH'od.uees t-h a eou1tn.nt- "ncreae.e of the ,c lass ,o f wage-w·o rk ·r s ·fo:r ·,:v.hich. t.be:re iij 00 eoitl'esJlODding in•
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BELATJONS BET'W:EEN. L · ,_ BOR ARD C'APIT..lL.
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of t'he· dem,a nd. _I have fonDd,_from 10m ·.. e"bse!Yat.imi,, tba:t fLe employer ,o,f ;1.
1e . meu ,o btains JU,s t a'bo·nt a mu.eh in1oome t'o :bimeelf ae be p111 'iD .. ages f'o hi!+
work'me11. ; but I a,m~ . h,.ii,ed, t.b at t:h i - (1 is,p ari tv in t he1,r :r-emo neration ,a,loue , onld:
en
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not ca.nee. the lli• tisfanion aud. ·-e,p reas·on bich exi,·t ,
,I ·h a,~ thn& l)ri,t~.Oy • - -,e tched ,-he can&es w,h ich operate to pmd11rt~e tho poveriy and
distre· of tb,e d16inherited 'toHen, ho by pa.t ieot e·ff'o,r t ,d,. v,elop ft,ou1 out' eommeu
paitr■i!mnny f.b 11eces.sar-i:ee, and, lu ~ nriea ef life.
That perso,n al h1dolenen .and impmvideu~e contri bu .e largely to,·t he. •~l@atiJ.t utio~ ~od wffering which e ·. ~ st I ,d,o no't deny;
but there, can "be ·no don b ·t heaa a e li'.H~ ~,ul iudueed ltJ' 't he v-ery _: -)~stem ,o,f w ,gee
i· _ ~u; wb_ich ,d ivoreee the wor er, from an,.; personal iote:re-Jst .·o. ·t hatwlnch lte,_prooucee ,
and also ·by the epectaele ·. ~b,i,c h our societ,y pr - sent•, w b N?i:n .honest labor ie deapi.; ;I
an,d 111:x:u:ry is ·t he mwat"d,. uo·t of ton, bn t of idJe ie88 an.d, vice.,
1 d,e em i't usel,e .· to d~ .i.e, aebem,e111 to reIDeily t,beae ,evil& _No league ~tween e,·-,-,
ployed a·o d employer, Jwwe.v er ,c onlial and faithft Uy canied out, could be -o,f more
tban t,empora_ry benelit~ o~ ly a return to ·n atural law, a, eien tiiic ndj,unment o,f the
't w,o prima) agen;te 11,0 pl'oduct-100,, Jandl. and l a'lmr,. ,aiul the 1 ·. tomtiiou of man to bis
no,f iilal •nrirollfilent,. and f ', - o.•n of actio , h ,·n-:hl- can ,~ · : ct an y Mlotai,- eba,n ge .
d,oma:n of' our nation ~,s alrea~ w_e11~Mi~b glven o\·tr- to mo11o~i0-IJ.. Eti~u_ffh
t-0 f,o nn. sev~n S,t ·ate:s ~f ·t he : 1ze ,o f .1.. e. _ York nae. been heet,o,werl 'Upon oorp_omt.1ous,
· 01 no 1.egitm:m ate eontt1.d e,r.a1 ion, and t he oa tiolU' ·r igb.t o( -m_i·b,e nt do~a.i ra ·11as he.en
uea'I' ly a,h dic · ,ted by 01lt Con~l'e88.. Tbe, r,oads seU th,e&, ]and to ee:t,ders,, it is . ru~,.
lbot_~ ,ey ahw sell to spooulaton .i n ]arge b'J,oc k 9. They eeH on time, a.t i1nte,re Jt which
wil · · ·~ p tho· :s et ler, 1n bondag,e fr-(uo genem,tio1 o ,g n r t,i ,on,. 'l°lbe lands nr: ~ ol'ten
taken. bac __:_ with. improvement . o - ,forec·I -_:ore,. ao(l ·w,b e·n only a part of the 1um-ha~
money renuun doe 't he entire propert'y, as in tim · of de,pre88ion,1is taken to, M 'ieiy
·t he. bl;onga _e
But in ,a fdltion . o the home .a ristocracy, w·h o, affect )and m,onopoly1 -e ]aa·. 't he
t1t],ed ·JJobili'ty. of Euro11e foundin,g v: a,', estat s; ·f ro:m w·h i . b th Am ·n ,c.an citizen ·i s
to be n,mver debarred., ex.c pt 98 a te ant or· serf' of a fbl'eigo an,d. perh·llips ah&e1l.teo
I ndJord6
I bold this tend ncy· ·. ve:n more dan~eroue to oinr national weU-be.i.n,g tba·o tbe wi Id
spec. 1 ·ta one: _w h ieb. ,00] zed Olli'' men ,o f , _ealth at · h - close of th.o last eent,u r'J':, and ,oecu:r red.often in 't h,e earl J half of t-h·is. Those efforl;s ·. _. ,r e ntcC"nded.mostly as ,o owme,r ci I
speculatt,io11a aud fai.' ·. d, as t ·ey' . er~ q'n i te ,iHl re ro do.. Th11e,, however., :is ,a m,a t.ure·r '
po·r pose to establish J~:r:ge iam ily n ,t atee, _· ..mt h a ge,n eml. system of rentals, or of ~
·n a·n za farmiag or e,t-oo.k r.aiaing,, an(l. w:b ieb .ma ,-'8 the tu ltii ,rator ueeeua;rily a tenanit ,
or · . ·a,g .·-wo,r ker,, wi .b prec rio:08 em_ploy meu t a d n. neertam l•lage&a -. o, fa 'b .. the
,s:istem sbeadJ" p,roeced d, to redu.ee the· · ta us of "t'he la.bore"' tbtLt our 0011.)0Ja-tion
wage ates, aod e·v en yo tr con1mi·tttee, seem to t biink i"t w•o-rth.y of rem~rk 1, if fm:u.1:d that
lailx!r is betb~ paid in this oou ,t ry · ban, in tbe tax-'r idd,e n and Hl-gov,e rned eo,u •tries
o·f .E.. nro,
-~ ·•t
_~~ at ~ a~ds .m.ay '!~·~in cliea p in e~rta.i 1! _looal1 ~ i.es g'_ive~, ~~, reli.e t or, retn.t otiob ·t o
oor t.hftD,Jl·.. ~he p·n - le .· , h)~OCC 'LP.Y la_n d 19 w_:bat am,1 axe ' ,~nee~ 8:upp,l y a~4 d~a.u_d
,o_~ ate :h.e,re ·t o ma~!', that r.rure '"' l ~e 'traffl_
e w1.ll hea,r .. ' a_nd wheth,t-,r th.· pn~ ~~
big' , O'r lo.,w m kes b t-tle ddf~:renc . The need..r a:,e - el oded J11st, tbe sa·m e: ,. :ud u,
s,hoo.ld..aliso he bom in mind. that 't -llle e'bua 1-e,r the lao.ds th _ ·more easil_y a,r-e theJ m.ou..
opolized by ,c apital, and are ulliualbr so'ld only i .·. la:r,,.,e, o,loeks, so tba't i.t is almost 'im})OS3i ble to buy a. s 1all farm u,t a ,c hie ap ·r at .· even in tbe So ,'th,, ·_. · · re titles are oft ,
mnnd de,feutiv,e"'
_!h~ ~nJ_y ~egie[at.iou~we w ,o uldl &ngg - t i:s the repeal of' all _l . · ,· (1 ~Si . -~8 ;wbi~'~ ,~ ve
_p ro,tec twn to 't1 tles to,la~dl D1 ,t ~Mt~~ on persona . OOcl1 pancy. T.be p,n nm.p le of ,bm1tat iou to privat prop_- rty in landt or its l'u duiction t~ tlt eam . ata~~:8_aa pt"l"W:ll l prop~
er~y," c8\n b .. re&U:zed !i.t h.o nt any d~rangem~n.t , to ~usiue~ or i'ndi:viduaJ d i • ~ - lfi
c, _,
made prospe ~ t1 e,,.
· ft, "'r 11i cetta.111. ( ato I t no, title be, recomed. whreh doe
n,@t spee-i(y that, th .• said ·t ract iR, w1thu1 th~ presc,r ihed J_1mi'ts, and 00·1~ ,req,ni.red for,
o~c,n paucy an(l cultivatt,ffll by the owne~.. . Let t~ie repeal not opera~e,d~nl?t'h e lifetim - of any present o -ner n. to, Janel .a.lriead.y 1.n po , · 10 ·, ,and. let him have, f.he
_pow_er ~o transfer his land to otbers nuder tlie. pre.se-riboo limit- Let the,1exeootors,
Q,n tb . dea..tl · of lar e land'h olden, ha·v e o -,e or more. ye.am 't o diapoee of t ' · e eurplna,
after·.heirs and I··• atoos have recei v d their proponioo1 under· t!J.e _Umitatio·o..
. _By stu;;h a eha·n,ge.. in 't h . syat ,. of l nd._ ten nm no,_~ u -, ·w~11 Id --~ wro~g~t to a'~ Y ~
It ,vou1<! ~c~T _the p ,ateat heuefi t, to all who a~e ~ee~ou.s of makio,,g_for therneelv,ea,
and,_ Camurea '1Ddeptsud nt .h ome t am ea,p able, of - lf-ew ployment,. and are willing i,o,
wark ., ·
_ It may· be ,a, q_u e tion bow far' · he refo·r .m i'ndieated. could 'be inaugurated by the
~e'!e.ra~ Gove-r!Jmen f-, ]!lut :it. can, .as i n_d,~ e~ i t al!ead.,■• has, r1'eog11ized. tb,e pr1nei p)e of
~1m· t t u~u to, the. acq 1~u·emeut, ,o f 't,he p ~ b] 1e l:iinds1, .as unde.r t~·e .homestead act. Bad,
tbata<rt been framed 1n aecotdanee mth ,on1; ·r-ecowmeuda't O'
nd'. heen ca ,tied out
in good faith,, the "iote1teet o· · 't he, ,.ountry nu,d the e,ondi t io n of labor would have b~P.11
grea tl,J improved 'T he, lsnd,s ,vonJd hav,c been taken up eooseeuti.v,e]y, ao tbat the
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paticn·t aod iodutriot1s Mttler' would. ha.v e been near to markets and aU -,ei.a l and
edueatle,nal fa ci.Hties Railroads would llave oo~n l)uilt M fast M needecl,. ·w ithont
M1bsidies and ·w ithout t e revo1ting spe.etacles.ef oornptien we ·now beltold.
Coogr•~ss ,c an at~ 'l!e:.ast nndo eome ,o f i.'ta u u fortunate work. It can, put what land
3,~et
i~,s umquande~ whoU... ' ~oder· tb.e bo~estead. .act~ 'T:he.,pan·ta made~in befir _:y;a I of that ·troa:t whleh. ceromitted the patru -OBJ' of the ,o ommg generatioas to
·t hei.r care ,q n all he ,d eclared forfei led ert,pecially where atriet compHa.noo w 1th the
~~~=-oomplied with, and where the land baa not p&1111l'd
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In view ot:t~-·p11&t, he·,. e'!~,,,t he o~tl~k __isno·t ~!llragiug,, that. under th_e sway
of party peht1,cs O,,n gttu J,11 do aoyth1.n,g but. fo&ter giant ooipOrauous, grant &Ubs1d_i .. an~ ahape legi&lat'io~ .WJn~~lly to favor ea.pi.tal 1etio ad.Y•eDtUl'e1'6, ~~o. o~· . to
ther lob~y ~d cq: ,u,g .,ret g,ve ! .r n 1,1!-t, 'Who ·= re 'I n .~, ~ volnoteer the ad.v u~ that DO _
legudabon ie tequtietl, te,_ protect Gl' inform the ·\ . or:kmgman tha·t h.e has · bbe_rty of
1i1.1,king· oootmcte and fnll frieedonJ. to work andl ·:yup bi& earnings ·ad beeo:me o
miHio1ia1m, and ~ught to ask oothin~ m.ore, amd tbat the only· · ay in w'hicb 'h e ean.
be poasiblLt
·· benefi.t ed ·· , to have ·t he, Government seen.r e capitalistaan.d luge oorpo,r -· t1e:ue, 1n t _. ~ ~pol.1ee _b y
prorect-1ve tan~ ~ab~ eu~id~. -~ •lroad
a ·r au , c_n d &:me~~ and pnvllege t!<O• hankers, to funueh a ,etteubit1n.f emed.uim. to
the peop c_, &~,., while 'keepiu. ·_o·p en ·t he dool'8 of the nation toi the wllo · · le impo,r -ta.tion of the impov,erished. and demoralized laho:rem of n ,other eooh·u-f,ee,., to ,oom·p ete with onr·-own.,
_
.It wiU he well.for u to re1lee·t that we _·re rapidly ,~~u•·og tbeaame oowa_wbt,ib
~.bmugb abfMOlj)tiOD. of'the land debased the cit'izeusbip e·f tbe Bmnau. repu.blic, a1 cl.
-- aved .~th - w y· ~or the emrp1,1·e ~n~~ t~e Cle&.118, Dih~~ hu.ndawl
.~" . ~ years ago. u.cT'lle~ thia COUD18 ~ ~BJ'!,ged ~ l!MDC&t]Otl8 are,that tbi eoun:tr,_Wlll D'86 ~ _ w:,.y
hem _ n orga·ni:zoo. oligarc:h:r rileoot:rol our Government who:U,; o:reoneprre for··ttJS
overthre • The h · .·r t &icke· e ta ,c on tempi te in au:tici.-. · ·tion 'th@et1'11- _gle ·w bi-e h the
m ~ :'led people are ee-r tain to make to regaiu tlieiir sovereignty when they enoo clearly
a,ppreb,e ntl, t'be peri to which it ie, ezpoeed...
AU of which w respeettnll7 sobmitted.
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LA.BOB ORGANIZATIONS
GEORGE B ,L AJR s. om aud examined.
By the 0&..UBMA'N :
Queistion. You reside in this city·1-Answ,eT·. Yes,, sir"
Q, W:h at is,yoor. bosine&S ·r- A . I am a manufactnrerofpacking boxe .· •
Q- · O · .· 1011g .b a:,.·e you :resi.ded i'u ,···~w · r-01.k an.d h.o w Ion.g baa that
.
t-: _. • b. ave re ,'"d
"' city
•· ·thirt
b eeu your h:.u 1n.ess
L_ d'"·
_1n ,th'1s
_
if..~.
uv·e Jears.
Q. ··a. t'b at J;~oo.r whole lite ·! - A .. •···o, 1 am i.u .m y thirty~h'th year.. l
h eve· 1.. ... ........- 1·n· buc,~;uaa... . S' 1'1 n· o~ 1· g:•II"!',_...
. Q,. The .same business '!- .· -. • Yes, sir.. I ba·,..e p·re:pared. a statement
that I should lib to make .i n ·v iew of the .f act that ,~.ou, req-oes.ted me to
call.
Q. You may t>i.ther r-ead it to us or give us tbe subs.t anee in y,oar own
wa.. ,. as you choose.-~.. _· 't'h:o ~gbt,i't was better to eo¥er the gronnd, as
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I might not, think of all the. tb'ing · here•
.Q.. ·Perhaps your better a~ . .· ill be to tak,e y~ur· ti~e ·a nd. ,g lance
-- "' an-·d re·.,ad o·r· Qlta·· te
· ,,.er
· ·b·a- · l ly as-. y-ou- ·p l0 "'~ .i;::.A the po11 nts Oil! I ·m,a:11,
alo'·u
want to, b1'.'eak 10 111KJ,r1 3;-ou with gu,e .tio0<s now· au.d then. State pre..lhniuar.H~ yoor co.nnection with la'bor organ'izatio_o : and with labor
move·· ents, and your i,d entifi.eation with. them as fiill]y as yon see &.t to
gi, e it, and what yon. may have done fro·m tim,e to ti·m,e w·l dcb is calcu~
Jated to give y-0,11 a 'kuowled_g e of the labo SJ,t;:tem aud of th,e la.bor:i'ug
JH~ople, the relations betw,een capital and labor, wages and the d.is.tri n. ·iou of" ,vages, strik _. , th.e11 causes au.d fbeir rewedie~, and t e like.
Gi ,re us a :1"1dl ij.t ;rte1nent iu. that re ga.nl before you ·pr-eceed with ,·onr
1>a:1w.1 . -• · .. 1 ha,..,e 1:mrtly covered that, in tb is s't.atement.
Q. Vtl'):" ,iell,. th.en ., go o.n .-A. I entered the labor movement w·h en
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•
I :·as eight ·en years of' a_,.., , iu 863, o,r th rea onts... I , . as naad,e se< . r(itiu·:r of the Box-makers a1 ·I 1Sa ,.; -:;- ·r :,' ·. 11iou at the ve·r: . -·· r8,t rmee·u;u -~,, hl
l 63, or i:n t.bat n ig·hborh.ooct. I aft,e wards, becnn1,e pre ulent; wus
deleg·tte1·1 to th _ Trade,s? Council of 1h1 , ,cit:r from. 1871 to, lSi4, and I
rep1-e' ented the ,organ.iz.e d lr·o.rk·1og. e - of thi city· in the ua ional ~~tl,T,e.ntio11 at . ·oeb 1e ster in 1873.. I jo,i ne · t e Knights of LahoF hen fiE 1t
organiz-ed. in 1874 in this city; b ·lieve the Kui.,g hts of· Labor i3 ·t he ooly
movem,e nt h t can noite all el · me1 ts seek'i.'D.g the same end. Tb - m•e r1
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•Cha·o t a·n d mauufacturer hav·e: the same opportunity to join. t·b.e ord.r r as
tlle m _cha11ic aHd labo ·>r.
•tartetl bo ·foe ·.._- on _ J ' •O· _· aucouut ·i n
1874,, and1 uHli ".e nearl - a]] who ha,·e adv·anced tbe·o1sel -ea t:ro1n the ·
wo.1k ..be ,c b, I remaiu aeti,Te ·10 't e w-ork of la·b or orgauizations I eu1~
plo.. and pai•l la ·t p,• y ..da,y s.i.xt1"' men, ·m y ~e k] _pa3~-roll ooiug about
'8800~ Thie a -rage year.ly earuiugs. -ot" WJ: emplo:y es l8 about ,_iOO
am now t'be chairman o:f -he- - ·ew Yo,r k 1S tate. Co,n 1mittee of the Labor
Party, which show.s, about .bo
I ·t• ud int · e ,wo,,.~u1 1it tb1·ough'>U.t th L St - te.
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-- I rtcognize
that the ~;,tiounl Governmeut e·a n do a ,t"OOa
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l -~'1sla-
war,I imp.ro -.1 1ig th_e co· ,d it-io ,o f i s p O·Jl•le.. I look H()On th ·
tive 'b ranch of the Go,·ernnient .- ·. the souroo fl""OD which 1ut:'uRur--es in
th -interest of t ··e peopl - .should sprin,:c.. Y 011 tan -·-,.,,e nM 2!1 in,;0111re
l' x; it i - popnl _r ·n ng1and; nnd- if tbe ricl l"Etfu · to ai(l ju prd1~eworthy -etlorrs. to improve the oo.udi'tio , of s,t.r ug -l •i.u g labor, they·8bou1d
be· compelled by 1a , · to take f1om · ·be shoulde1 ~ of tbos-e ·w ho ~au ar·
the least taxation a.n,l J•l~t!e it u1,on tb ·l1ould~r.~ of ·t}!ose wbo ca· ~ I
would e e pt all unde.r $lH,,(NMJ, inoowe; ahuv_· that,, I wonltl graduate
the· ta.x, and be. or ,s he w·l10 .. ineo·m1e wo11ld be O\"er 8·I 00,000 per =inn um,
I .. -·ou.ld tax -o be ·1dly tba t ·n-.i. lhoni iii s 1\1ou'hl be impo , -lble.
rnain-tain ·t hat a per on can go, throug,h tlai~ lif ~ \\Tith ~1U1 income ,of 125,UOO
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per a.no-nm very con1fortal;.Jy.. lncrea ·_ ed ,,·~alth t nds to .aris.tocri ·_- .
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· -inety per cent. of tho~ _- _-ho, in lterit th~; -am · a·1 - tbe styJe of -he 1·is
to .racy, and th y dr pise · he 'l abor r, the mecba 1c, and in 1som-e ca ,i
the. mann-factnrer tn'1tl m _rchant.
Q. 1 want to a· k -ou if ~on b a,- in mind aDd. i.f yon 11', t of it furt · •er o, , soroe way to reach tl1e hi com. of corJloratfonsll lndi ,,. ~<1nals
-_ "OU deal wi·t b, .a nd. there is. a. , " y -~ .-can reach h. .·- m J.•roba hl~r.,1bu· _tak th · income of corporation ..-A. The iudi'vidoat w·bo 1 · ·k,e up these
cor1l()·r ations pould be reached.~
,Q. You wout,,l no pro\•ably JnPke an·-- eft"ort to collect its i.ncome tax
di rec 131 front t be tr·ea su 1.·_y o-~., 'the corporation beyon( I wIt a ' ou . .ht to ,■r,o
in a fa·i r ,d ividend -- - ·_ . l ould n.ot int rt,er-e with that because thbt i
au 10-sti-tntiou Jik an¥ othe:r tha is euiploy.i ug labor aud distribut"ug
n1,on ~y th1'."0ogbont the oomm·nr1i·ty,. bu those· who earn o mHch tro.u1
tl1ose corporation. as individuals sbould b -· taxed.
Q ·OH treat what co ues from -_- .-porate :p roi1erty lik • 1n1y oth .-r ruul
as. eon· r1buti.og to tbe pel'i onal ineo-m,e· of tbe stockbo,lde~ - 1-A~ ·-. e __,
sir; e -peciall3 if a corporation j a bOfla jide· in itn.tion · D d not sosta·i ·e d_by any sr,ecia'I. 1,,r ivileges obtained from~- legi]atnre"'
Q.. Ver~,· well,, go 011 -A.. The rea --ou I referred to --be Jact -.-bat 'thtkie,
wb.o inherit -_ .. ~alth rd "p-ise the mauu.t~lctu.r.e.r and the mecb uic i that
it is wt,JI known. that tbe aristocracy of Eu1ope iH a great meas 1r •refase ·t o azs' -, iate • 1t_ - w-ith a manufaotuL ·r·t oao se uo reason whJ' Goverom,eut boods sb.ould no:t 'be taxed. Ii -e
o'lh(.,r roperty.. People · -- 110 bold t es ·_ boud _-hav. t _-_ 1,rotec.t ton ,of
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39
RELATJ,QNS BE,T WEElf LABO,R ilD CAPITAL~
pol,i ee :,nd fire and other tl · partments, to stts,t ain whi,e h they ,c ontribute
nothing. Legitim · te ·b usiness suffers to, some e . tent- Moch, of these,
tiuul . are, looked up, owner 11referriug 't o draw interes·t inste· d of io.1:,es:t iug in business that "ouJd cmplo,y labor·.
EDUCA7l0.N IN .D U'l'IES, OF CITIZENSHIP.
Yon can ins,titntea, · ·. st, m of e~lu~i\tion "'hich ould ser1 e to ·i:ustruct
th ·. mas ,-· sin their· po'litical duties uucl rigbts.. The ,p,rese.nt school ~lS..
'tem is sil nt oo educating the fut1r.11·~ ·~itiz~11., Ne,g lect upon this ~ul~jeet
.s no .. appa.reu ·;. Tue man wbo enters pub) ic Ii.te. bas l'er:.,:· little encourog" ment., lt. req U'i res a In'".· n of ,~t1,,>u g ,,.~ill IJOvter, to stand tbe u bu~1
and mi r p:r eseutation.s matle ilail!f ahout. bis rnoti\"'"es.. 'l"he g, "Deral
opinion is-tba't tbe man goiug into ·11ublic Jile cloes it for personal ~1n.
H ,e receive . v·e ry llttle o.red·1t for 1n1 rioti,sm, ,a nd .h is near t"l·iends. t · 11.
him if he is,a patr.iotaud au honest man be had. betterleav·e 1,ol1tics.alo e,
88 ,i t is m,ooopolizetl b,\'" men who · onld betray bi!D at c,~ery tu,r-1 . '\Vito .,
ure 1n politi.,., , fbr all the.~\':' ,c an make.. Sometimes I a.m forced to beli -,~e
the st ·__ te:m eut- when it is ·1 notoriouti :f act tbat man.y mien ·i u pllbliclife
a.re ri,c h to-dal W'h o were poor ·w hen they st.arted in. Tb~,r:e,-are nta,u.s
ca:ses in tbi . cit:f "··here me:n spend a grea't, d,e al more. t'ban th ···i r , nJary
amounts, tu to s~cure their elooti,on, aud yet take " so·1e1nn O"' th w ·. ei
sworn. in tba·t they ne.v er s,p ent a doHar. Education ·wn:t cur-e. this :if
th ·. ahn be t.o enlirhten the citizen as to Lis rt!:Sl_
,on.s:bilitie~ T'h c
National Go,·ernm.e nt ca.n do little ·with the question of convie;t c.ontrJ.c t
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labor~
Q. In re,g anl to education; tbe 1S tntes, of oo,nr. e, as W8 all .k now, ,a re
· upi1Hed ruore. or less fully 'w ith a common school g5stem alread~ -.
oo
speak of :natio,n al help,or · _ national .sJ tem of educat ·ou, and, of cot'lrse,
JrOU 1-eeo,guize 'lb ill tellect.n.al ,cou \ iutio.us of a gr·"'<l't ·p art of' our ,country tl1at the mat,ter of education 1 a St.ate, w tte1· properJJ ; bot I see
that you hold, what I beliet ,e , tbat the nat"on is :res1JonNible, if uo one
else ed11cates the chiltl, for its education its 11~, .No"·, tlo yon tbiu . it,
wou Id be, or not, a ,proper th i ug a od a ,g ood th:ing to, do for tbe .' ·.,atioual
. ~ov.crom,e nt to make approp1.,ja·t ions from uational fnu(ls LJ a..~s1st in
the eulargement a. d e .tension and i'm,pro\·e,m ent of t.he 18 ,t:ate s. stems
,o f co, ,n-ion-se'hool · dueation whe·r ever tbey seem to waut i.t t:........A. I heh .· v . tba,t would be a, ,-e~ - ~ood scbem.e~ - Begide, 't he Governm.eHt has
eS1tablisbed the p rece.d ent of helping States hJ' g"viug thPm lan,d for
sc'bool. 1;1urpose
The poiut I 1nake -b.· re is that ·t ·e ,sel 00·1s ne~.loot to
·ren tbe, boy and the girl that the;y area part o,f a, grea,t cowmonity, and
that -r11 ben they become of ag,e lhey ba:,re certain responsibilities, antl i.f
i_ bese re po osibilit1es are not look lif.1 a.fte.r it is ap·t to react upon the
iudividHa.1s th.at oompose the corn wooit~"', autl. my point is thnt t-hrough
he Nation~l Uov .-rDDlent the St te ,'~o,·erum1euts wigh·t be u.r,g ed to do
.s omething in this direction. It wouJd. be simpl,)· adding a. branch to the
xistiug syasbeui., Our school Slstem, \Y"i'bh 'th.at exce,p t· on, bs e ' ·,celleint,
,anfl I con ider that it ii... tb,Q ~rrea·t , safet,y tor our iust·~tutious.. They
shoubl be encourag J. ,ao(I ,d e\·eloped, and e peeially· in the South,,
Q~ ·Yon mentioned the fa,c -that,you were ,c hairman of tb.elaboror,g an
iza'ti on of this State. Tba t 'm atter of ,- _,~onal aid to ed"11cation is ,p end in_g in. Congress no,,. ; 'i t will be acted u,pon fi - ,o.rahly· or nuf~t,,.orabl3 hJ'"
the p -e seut Ciougress,~ ·ao.d would it not be within the de,~;i:re, ·l t ~,t!:tlJst,
o 1· iatnl wit.biu tbe 1,10\\"''eF of' your, organizatioo to ·make it'" ~If ~elt ,d ireetl:,- upou. Con,~r, s.s -~itb .refer nee ,to ,bat tbiog l'- A1 11 1 cuuJd _g et
tllc contr-ol of' th,e scheme wy idea is that there ,s hould ·be some manua1
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tnry provision that ·\vould co1npe'l the school sys:t em to turn .its atlention
to educating the fub."' re citizen-not aloo,e. .appropriation for· school
pur11oses, but that it should. also b ·.·Ip to edncate. the citizen :i n the •d irection that be b~~ uot ye. been ,e ducated.
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O· .•
CO .VICT LABOR.,
A. Tlte N'ational Gov,ernm nt c~n do little with the. question o , ·con-
,ic·t contract labor, as, tbese, m.a-tters are re·g nlated b)r the States; . .et
tl1e GoverH1nent payei for its oou,.. ict . in · .b e AlbanJ prison ond the sauie
are Jet, Oll't aga.i n b:y cont·rac't1 Some e'lfort ~bould be ma.d ,e to learn to
wh., t e -•tf.!nt the Jaborers or convicts of tbe Sooth are db;posed ot: l
have i·t from uuoffici.ttJ..sou.r,oes, that the ,c onvict labor of se,~eral o the
South~rn S,t att1s is. let ou.t 'bJ·· ooutrJ.c t fo,r a non ·i· al suni and that judgeN,
senteuoe pr1son~.r s for trii iaJ o,ffenses.for lon,g tenns iu t e :i ut ~rest of
contracto1 ,,-, J , igbt, add here th.at contract. w,o tli i - in the 1 · ,tl"rest of
cbe~tI> labor~t he· lowest ruan get . the job ;: heuce onr 011•1Mlsitiou to ,con•
tract work b·,.. the· Gov,ern. m,e n't . Prison 0011 tracts ,g i , e tl1e cic,nt1.·aetor an
rulvantaa-e o•v er out's,id.e 01.anutacturer-s, and to tbe extent of the number
o t:" c.onvictM ~ mployed i ujw· ,s outside labor in Jowering wage • ,v "· ;clcl'it t.h~t tb JJ·riRo,n - . -~·u be 1nad.e ··e·l f-sustaining, b:y doing tlle ,vork ou State
account a11d ,gi,~ing each convict an allowaoee for bi's .l abor anti sellin.;~
th · gootl'. 11n1,tle at th: · . n1nie 11rice outside m ..mufa · ture "harcre_
Q.. lu 1·eg~1 rd to th · t matter 1 would say bat I int.roducetl 10 tbe hist. ·
Con:.·ress a bHl bear.hig on tliat subject,, autl I s·hould lik.., yull to look. it
np aud see bow i"ts ·provisiou1s suit yo-o·
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n,o u·a s OF LAS.O K..
A . ours of labor should be reduc -d. to n1.eet the iucre~d pow -r of
1uachine·ry~ No ouc State cau do thi~. lt m.ust be don a · ,o ne 'tnnre by
the \V bole country.. 'l'be bD"i l.diu·· ~ trade~, of ti.Jig city e.11,ji >-yed the ei,g bt.
hour ,s,y ~te·m up to the panio.. Since th.en ten hour,s, h~I.M b aeu ·t i u.. role,.
e_cept Sait nnlaJs. The stone,. ,c utt·r ,s ha.ve 1naintaine,d the ei,;bt.hour
.S•!t ~t~·m np o ·t he J)rese,· t. ~lbese trad.e s hav ·. au ad,~an.ta.ge o,-e· wanuf'u.ctu·11os.. ~Jus·t s troon as. me· en.,ff'a,ged. iu manufaetu·~ s as.k-ed anl
struck for the ,e ight hours otber- States .s ecured tb.e ti·a(le wbe,re. t n and
t,:t"t .J\-1.i hou1-s ,,
1ei (Inv pn.~,-ailed.. N'o o.ue 1nanu-fa,c tnrer cau redo.ee tbe
i
bours.. of lubor nu less it betr.omes ."1 ·11 .· i·a), for uch 1·nun mi,:bt a~ w·ell ~o
out of lnl'~iu ·. '·· nuder the 1>re ~ut shartJ competitiou. W ,e ln,.v·e iu tbi, ·.
~ta-fe o,. er 50.000 o ier.ati.,. . es, ,,. ho wor ~:. nearly tw,,l \ . 1. boors per tlaj·..........U7
hours _Jl . r wt:ek or eleve bouu:i 1nor per ,v.-ttk tlJun th~ fae'lory opera..
ti,-es. of the la·r ge cotto d.istrii.c.tij of Engl ·ud.
Q . Froai .l oor 'k nowledge of tbe subJcct, has tb .re been any tliffl,c ult,y
a,ritfrug in tbP- administ~ _-t ion of laws fixing ,, tsborte · period of Jab0ir th,au.
prtniously obtai:ued, b.Y reasoo or he inclin.,1tion of' the workers, the
lc,bore,n; t'htnnse·l ,·e , to be · m·p loy d to sonH1 e.x teut l~youd fhe Hmita,..
ti.o n!-A . You 1nea-H tbat ,s ome of tl1 c men want to ,vurk looge·r hout-s I
Q. · _ e .~-Ai Wi!H, an retorme1·s kuow ·t ba.-t huuian 11ature is .s eltis.b ,
aud t b n , i8 al,va)".s a ~rta in. 1,ercenta · o .meu 'arbo tlo n.o·t recogniz, .
D)O\r me.ut for tbei.r 0\: D beue6 t1
w ·e in this ci.t, iu 1.s:13 hacl a Coll"rt ~·ional iu, ,e s.t i~ution of tbe ,vork on thi.~ ntilt1.in.g·. There was a
trrcct \""iolation of the ·. i:;cbt-llon:r la . ·, \Ve dre,v (Htt tb~ testimony
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'T b·"· C,r1.g res ~·i onul ,c <Hnmit.tee ~t 11d bere but: about ·i gbt hours •. ncl .. e
·1uul tH~t t i1n~ to get ou . . all our l\?'itne.s .~e-~,, I.Jot
tire.- o -it at ·t hat t :tne.
~l- co . 1ft. ss :ou oD t he part of ou . of· th _ uou traeto N h·1. , be. charged t IJe
Go\'" ernm ·ot .f.dr ,_. 1gh '"" llonrs' '\l"ork aud bit;; men wor.ked ten hours. In
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.41
BELATJON.S BETWEE •. · LABOR AND C.APITAL..
1
,o ther words, be got th.e adl"anta: · of tw·o boo ., 'The 1,oi ·t we m.atle
tbeu was that the Gov,e r me;'ft't hoald ot 10 ke nns cuntnJlet _, t uit, to•
lated t.be la ·", ·b ut op to the })re~ ·"·nt we have bad. tbat ditlic11l'ty witl1
tll:e Gov,e.rument right through. Wher ,;per the Gov· .rnn1ent ga.¥e ont
oontracb; the3 m,ade no provis..ioo iu the ooutraclM tb.a the eight-hour
law sbou Id. ·be re~o.gnized an(I 1susta,ine.d~ ' I," bey a lli0\1~ e1I tbe oou t racto1
to work hi: ·. m·.•.o jus:t as, muoy boun, as lie ·11leased, and in th:a.t w.a y tl1e
Go,·ernm -Dt avoi,le 1 the eufo,r oement of tbe ei,g h·t hour b,·w Ther~. ·i -,
no re·• _~on wh.y the Go,rerument ,c annot tlo the wnrk 011 :i ts owH ~J,t,~onnt,
anti then the -me:n ,rould bal'"e t be benefirt ,of tl1e eig'l1t our,~,~lnl t t be
\: · ·y I owent.the eig t -=bour ystem wa i' t~oduced ,c ontracts iiH!~a., d,,
and 11 ... . ibly the Go,~ern~eot had the work ,d one for a little ·1.ess. Sor0re.how or otber it seemi to ·be • · fact that Govern·m eut work done diriflct by
the Go,~
·'t?rnmeut " .' more eostly ·tbau ,c ontract ·w or: and more ,ex1, ·, DMi., . .e
t · tbt,.people, but• it is JargelJ ·bet.anse men. who are e.m.plo:',ed bi _
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Go,v,e rum,e ut are mo,1·e or let1s ·: nuder the control of politieal or,g aniza-
tions, and men w·b o 8pen. l tbe1r time an,d mouey to maintain political
orga.niza,tion.s and get poJ.i t~cal place i·11 that way ~enerally ·m ake · he
Job last at1 long as fhey can,. I think there i,s a, radi,c al. change · 1eedet·l
iu.·t hat d,irectiou. before the Gol'ern1ot1,nt wor·k could be made · •roft'tab]e;
yet. the Uov .11· · 11·t 1S · onld -1·000. uize tb.e tact t at ·it- b ,.s 1•a ~. ·-d this
law·and it should enforce it, amd no contract seh me should be 1·esorted
to. I i am·· ao.,I hypocritical m·e thod, to my 1n'ind, of et",a diug th . ..i,g b·tihonr la .,··
Q. ltr the Go,·· r.nment finds it an advanta _.e to do its ·work by eo,, tract,
ra't her 'th· n h:)' i.tself directly, for the reasons yoo h .,•·e mentionetl,. ,vould
it ·1-each the :p oint for the. Go,v ernmeutstiH to employ contracto bu·t to
make an expre s J)rovision in tbe. contracts that labor honld. riot. wo··k
m,ore thau. eight b.oumt-A~ Tbe,re. w·ould not be anit tSerious olgectioo
to that, but OH gene_· ·1 princip,I es I am opposed o, co-ntraet ·Or "~- .I
have. in m.y own bu . iuetSS earned out, the d.ay' wo.rk system,, and ··ine
1s the onl,y shop in this cit~v ·t bat 1s rnu. on tl1at system.. I do n.ot suppose it oould be mad ·t o 1•ay uules _ it '\ Va ·· J. th.at conducted i
Q . t.af.e full, tben, .~-oor sy.s.tem an.d our e., per.ienceof it ', results.
You app·l y ·t be· edgh't-,l1onr or ten-honr l: .· f-A., I ·· 1fpl3" the day's work
yst e1n, · ··l1ereaa al I. other shops i u n1y IIue ··. Of" pi.ec@-1\"&r'k.
Q. Ho,v uaa.n J· houn~; a ,d ay do your mt 11 work · ~A.. Ten hours.
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_e.· ·· co· ·Jte1
11rers has to be met.
Q .. It has -_ eeu Cjlai·med,, or at I . st tbe OJ)iuioo 'b as been ex:1,re-·· . db
·, au3, tba ! _1gh.t boon;' wo1k ga ,e as much produ.c tion . · , ten l1our ~,
· :ork- ls tht t true at the p:reseu1 time, do yon th.ink 1-A. Tbat ... as
:; o·'' ,8 w,3
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··· th a· ·t q ]l-18!ilit
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done 1n · be. Go-vern-- ent armo~y,. that a . cer·t ain kind. o.f wor:k mer, do
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.as mucb work iu. e·i gbt boars as · bey fbr1merly tlid in teu; bt1t I do not
tbin·k th.at th.a wo 1'l d hold ,goot ;, in. ·t·a e · i't bould uot-, bee u. · the
aim. of the reduction oft.b e boUN o·t· labor 1 to gi\··e u1ore employ1neutand if a man ca:n do a much. 1·0 eigbt h-ours J.rS he formerl},. 1.Hd, iin teu
tb.1r 1 is no real hen : fi.t . Tbe design of the reduc· ion of tile hour of
Jabor w,as to meet tbe .10.ereased production of 1ua,cbi1 ery, in oru.e r that
·t he m,en. w.b o _re thrown ou:t , of e.w p!oym, nt b ·m a ·hine?)'" ea· , be •· mplojed, and if the man. ·who wor·k, eight hours ll 1es as ·mncb a he tor..
merly· d·id ·1 ·t en, tb· re iis no re•: l b .ne1it, .·. x:•. ptio,g to gi e him two
hourr, mo ·" .· I i:su1~, ,vh~cb, of' coni "tt :is a 1~doomi.11.g feature,, and ,~~t. rhe
de :. ign of" the agitation fb.r the reduction of the, h.o urs of labol" is to 111cct
:the increased. p~oclnction of machinery ..
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-42
RELATIONS B -TWEEN .LAB·O R - ~D CAP'ITAL~
Q. That, you fhin.k., is the prin-cip'le t-A,._ ~.at i.s. t'he p,rioeiple!@
Q. T'uc11, until th. r11le is. g,eneral, no ind.i,Tiduulemplo)·e1~ ,c an e -Jl ct
to m ·Tiutaiu b·i tu;~ elf in co.nip •titio,n ·w ith uth.e rs who ,vork their la bot'"
beJontl the ei'g ht hours !-- A~ I would :hav•e to go out of bosioess if I
- orkcd. onl · e1gh hoo~ .,
Q. I see the lloint. ,Go on ..
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A ._ Trad ,organizations should be a11,.nved to ineorporat under the
-;·at1oual"Go, e11unent1, I rtgard t .,. ma . ,.he must useful institutious ··o
our laud,ao -~eucy· tbrou.gh . hich the workingmen a111 w·,orkin.1:,.,rwomeo
can m.aJ, -_ theu· ,v·a nts ·koo,vn, and they ,s bo lirl recei', e the same en.coura~1n n · bere as ·i~. gi'veu them. in England~ I kuow thev ,_
dl'en rnake
otistake ·, bn -. uu~.u do HO · drop• t·h .ir tools and t:b6 ,cb.a nce of l)•r oviding
th: · in . lveij and tamili.es, with the necessaries. of life to,r 1nere :-eirtiwent..
They are often catT.i.ed awal b.)~ some. pretend~d fr1e.ti,d who has a eom·
mand of la11g11age, but ha· nothing· to lose.. Sncb a· ·e soon found out,
and the n1ov::_m -· nts. amou_g · tbe workingmen wJ10 -~uect'ed .a re 110 longer
car1·H!d a.'\l,ui~· by sp~ead-eagl,ei.sm.. To get a cor1 . ct id.e a of tbe u,s ,.JnlnesJi. of uoioni ~m you mu~t ,s tudy the gro,w th anll 1 'If' gr .· -·. of the EngJisb trades UHion., tro.m b.ich the .l abor 1no,Temeut iu this,oounrr1 ti).)ftlD~.
There they a,:-e b lo. tbe , object-of :p arlia;mentarJ,.. .iuqniry.. 'T be Titish
G , ov>r1u11 D ; ua . cQnceded. to o- gaoiz,e d labor miu cb thnt is yet to be.
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obtau1ed fi,10,m this, Go,~e.r.nment, :. ntl I qu .stiou 'l'lheil1er tbere 1:-1 • (H1.b·
·1ic 1nan in Euglanfl of any :p.rominerJ1ce -- ut what will agr(•e ,~ith w - that
'laho " o ~.gauizatioo ,, ha·vo con -riboted la1:.gt-ly to be u~e.1 l being and p.ros ..
ll rit) ot~ tl1a· : coont~y..
abo1~ 0,1-gauizaitio,n ~ pff.,~t~·ut. 1•aop· rIso1 antl
c1imc; they tend to u1ake 1•atriots of their m•e1nhe-rs bJ urging leg.it;h.1tion io th ir in! er st,, a.ud sut11l legi lati-011 a ·--. teuds to ·io11•ro,.. e the 1·oudition of Jabor· tend , to im1,rove tbe pro~(t~rit~~ ot" tbe· , h,,Ic 1,eo1,1 , .'
-, be3r help the sic ,.., ht ry the dea;'d,. pro,: "dt!. uu't-of~~\\"01·k reli . f~ a1ul ·•·t
pe1~sion for old age, ! t~ey abhor strikt! s,._exffpt us_ a last reso1 t, aud I
bel1eT - that methoo of settl1n,g l.abor d1spuleij will soou pass •.twav.
The poiut to be reached is 'lo sfop comJ}ot:itio,11 as to tbe 1>rice o...■• ]abo.1·.
When maoufJ£torers will come •down. a little in thtliir di.g1iitJ' an,d 1·ecog
nize that lab.,-r is hurnau,. " nd no a cooimodUy Jikc the 1·a,v materhtl,
ther .- ,v.iU be fe : 8 rik
Q You ai■,
.r~_· familiar · itb. t · e ope ·. ion. of trades nniont; 1.n this
Stab~.autl iD 1·b e coo.ntr:y, I sn1lpos~ .- A. Y-=8, Mir, I do u.ot thiuk the1•, .
1s a.u,y 'Ulan 111ore fam i.1 iar with I he1H.
Q~ .· . . on 'koo·w th -~co111p1nin t~ of ·mploye·r s in reg.u111l to t·be1n-t hat
tbt~) iute1· ·e·1e "~itb bu~:i.n~~. ~.,, hrea l'i up tJ•t i ,~ate conti■nctK aod ruiu tll,Obewu o ba lle .·ntt~., d into theu.1; and. t be1•,e.i ~ considerable W.IDJ)laiu.t iu t hi~
city at tb e :i>r, ~.i ot time. J u,s ho\\··'fa do :fon tlnnk au or,n\..1n iztd ·1ra(l -s
uui.ou.s ha ~•: rig'b.t 01· outih tu J!U .i n -the re.- rnlatiou ot .the 1u·icu of h1lJor
and t e con'tro_l of .b e ,c outrncts or· agreeutt'Ut8 w'l1icb way ha,~e been
ente-I~·etl into by emJdO 'l l"S witb those \Vho arc ,d irectl3" ,e1111J1~~:r~d ·i n C~lfm
ry j n g ,o ut t'hei1 cou t _nets - · .. In the tir... ·t place, an em 1•• oyti,1~, '" heu lie
eut,eI"s into a contract, shouhl take ·i uto con:,;i<leration tb~. w~n .ho J• . ,1~tor'.m the la,'bo1. of !,~ttm u ·,,~ tl1 e ll rt iell'- on tbe 1u iirk -t ; if' t be. coli tract i,s,
of .au.3 w.a guitod.· ., or· rnuni.11 , iu'lo :I n,g tlt of tim ~, t.bt")i ~uuu.l,l be ,c unsul1 d,. -__peeiall:,. . where th ~ nu1uufactn1er bappens to be.i a mHn w·llo
ij.--· cou ti:u uuJJ:r iu trou ule w ~ t bis men~ 11· he i.8 wan w.bo i:iJ di ·. }lO · ,·- d
to do tln1t ,,·hieh 1g re·1son·:1.ltle and rigbt to bis m,,e, , llD(l be ma.l i~8 a
~outra. t, bu cau 8't1el.y go on ,vi.thou.t t·~a:riug trouble,. ·iu n iuo caseg
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out of te·o. .Tb.e only men, in my experi.c uce -w ho hnl""'e e.,Ter hatl a111·.v
tronble . -itb tb.e ir men are those wlto, recognize ,~or, ingm1~u and ,-ror'k:i ngwowen as mere machines, wh-o ha e. no reg.a.r d fo,r their f -eliu~s,
.1 ud 1 ho .s ay I H rSu.b stauce, " 1. ·b o). . my labor in t IJ e ch, •a 11e~ t ·,narkitl't in
tbe same- w~a_y as I b~y my raw material .." Those men,, when tbe;J ..u ..
ter .into ,c ontracts, tbat. a·r-e of long· duration, and ba,..e inen wo1~klu,: at
a Y&-Y low rate, of wagpsi_ must exp.ec,t ., if bu ine - is Ii,: el,· an-,l tbe1
- th. s, 1·· b at- ti1e mein w h o ar,e
h ave
p 1_-_ n t.y o,r·. .· ~. or th
__ ree, ti•O lli',, OE fi ve mon
ietting tarvation w·a..,ge - will ask a , r,ertai.n advaurn.•·; aud my c.:xp~1-i..-»1u,e1
11:as btae·o , and I can ua·m.e ·. -o• :m anu:t actui r. , all. through 1b'i.s State,
·t hat i _is o.ot so ioucll the qoe · tion of' wages as it is tho. qu _·sti.on of
treatme:o ·i and the question of recognizing t·b e rights of the man ·wh,o
performs l.a'bo,r . M.os;t of the .s trikc·s ha .e gro ,n ou't, o-r·certa111 circnm.u.._•,u · . tb,r,i;,iel ·t t· ba. e"mp·~oye
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tious. I know th.at 'there are some-very good men who somct1mf!:s ba,m
e
trouble · ith tbei'r· emp)oyes., bnt such g,e u~e rallJ reaets ·o poo th. , 1reu and
in a little while they .l earn to appreciate :a. good man~. Thn't of'teo i " tile
case ·;, but ·t h.e ecy·aga~·o st the trade organizations is raised by tneu who
do not de ·. i1e. to develop a sentiment in fa,,ro,r of doing .Justi ~e bJ labor~
To -~reat.e·a sentimeu·t jnst 'th~ otber way·i .. th - ~tle ·i1gn ot" tbe· labo, 01ovement i.n. this- co n tey, 'b ~oau -·e i't tend· to ·p ~pPrity· a,·~ b _t,,.e,~n then:1,..
The more a m.an. re ·~ives, the ·more ·money lie earn. speu.d,, th . larger tbe
mumber of articles that are mannfacturetl, and tbe. mo:oo of ·t he ,,-a ts of
labor supp,l ied ·; but you reduce wa"e and you red.u.ce th~ ,ralne of e,·erJ'
property in. tl.Je couutry;I
- ·Q.. Wbait interference do the trades ·u ni.o,ns actuall)· ex rcise u·i.th the
bus.ines - of contractors .- .... Tbe buildin,g trad,e s reall,y .a1-e th . mo ·t,
a :g-ressive .J\u,,- · soo1etimt>S, make a _g reat ,deal of trouble for contractor~.
I th.ink th - greatest comp,l aint come _. from tba.t ditPctiou. J\. ,nan
ma:k es a. ,c ontract for a building and hi e· .tim.a tes ,a re :,!i\,. . u in and ac,..
oopted. The ar,chitt · ct sa.. ·s . '·' Go ahead." He starts. his. b11Hrlh1~~ an(l
before it ls balf-:way finhdied ·be find.a tha tbr-ough tronble.s ·,, ith h'is
mtJD bis. e -11ense is, 'i creased by bavi i met a stroug 0 _
gan1iz~if.iou, an.ti
he comes oot ,0 0, tbe wrou_g -·.- .nd of the horn.. Then, of counw, the contractor eom·p laiu.s fiuds .f ault ·with th.e t1ades on.ion., f the coo'tr.actor
befo,oo. maik·ing·.l1is arrangem eots bad consulted. the men, "'no:wiug· inti
well that tbe m,en in the building trades are the most agg-ressiv-e -t1·.ad~.s
un'ionis.ts tb~tt . e ha _e, there · _oo1d ·no·t be so much tmu.b Je; ·b ut if ,:,,~on
ba..v · 'been in bu .· .ine.si ~.:roo must know tlutt tbe, oomJ · 'titiou ani·o ng cootracto-r, _, and ·~os·in.,.,,ss men ·i s even greater than among ·workin2n1en in
cotting down ·figures~ They get the :fi.gure,s do-wu so low that someti.mes
'th,e y are unabl ~ to, rm.. ev. u wbat is reason a hie a-n d fa.ir.
I~- ex1~erience, and. I be'lie·ve the. ex(lerienoe of nearly all in the bniltli-n.~ . ra'1es,
i: tbat the.)"" h.1.ve ]earned a les on.. The building trade·s ba,.··e made re~
duction.s, in the past, and I belie e,. from what I I ar.n "d at th : last
nat1o·o al convention, tbey propose to mak:e .• 01,o v·e n<":x.t y·-e ar, a.n,1 they
ha,re. already notified thei'r· empl.oy,e rs as ea:rly as thi · tin1 that n ~x t
Jear at a ce·r tai - time tbe,y propose to do certain ·t hi gs,. so that tbe 1nen
---ngaged ·in the ·b oil.d ing trades who are maklng eontrach; can be go-,-..
erned.accordingly.
,Qii The, wi)I h ;ve not.ice i n ad.v ance ·w hat w.af!eS they ·wi11 hai, ..e to
pa5~in order to avoid tronb1.e ··.-- A. Yes, sir, .and. of th,•· hour . or Iabo:r.
Q,, Tb.a·t ·w ould gi··,e, them reduction in hours without legi ~latiou
·p robab1,, would it not! ·.. ·.. Ob, 3·,esi! Thie me•,, i.n the. bnHd'i.ng t ad . s,
.h e·r e, ba, ·e mor,e: or less secu·r ed . re<loctloo. · ve·o a.J.'ter tlae · , ~i,-al :i n
bus.iness.. They· 'h ave the eigbt hours on Saturday all through. the
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b11i1ding trades; b:n t the building trades, are alto:g etber different ·r ro,m
othei -,. In a maunfile'tnnn,g town, if tlle two hours are mken. off tbe
labor would 'be increased and.anot,b er ci.t_y ,could nianufactui·,e.
-the goods u.nd.er a te·o or e·l even hour ss.s,t em and tbe trade of tbe tou'" ··
would. go ,a\ray.. They cannot bring bu1lding·s here. A builcliug that is,
wanted here &"lu·n ot be built in Jersey· or in ,O hio as maoufactured aF.ti ..
cle - ~ub~
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,Q.. Tbe building trades really work upon real ,e state.!-A~ Ye .
Q. Is th re a t e.nde-:ncy a-u1oug all trades to .this, u.nificatio-n and gru~
eral 0 ,1~· 11.a t ion.al u.ctio,n that 3.~ou speak of as already taken bJ tbe builtl·
ing trn lf• ·-A;! e the Knights,of Labor are .f illing that bill b3 takincr
iu al. I tr-dldes and operating UUrd,e.r one head.
Q~, D•,~ th . y include agrieultu1t"al labor,e rs also t-- A~ Y.· --,, ancl ,,·l•ite
aud black, ·too,.
·Q. Aud yellow· -.-A. Not exactll,.·
Q. l undemtood _yo.u to say· that they· iuclude emplos,e1•s, 1dso ·•.'- A.
Y t!'. ,; ' tsir ~
Q. All classeLS -of emploJters 1---A. Yes,, sir,, excep·t rum -seHers a.n d
Ia,,yers.
Th
_. _JD emp,101 ..rs
. -ere 1s. oue ot-ber ~1ass J. oo
Q. D-o ,y ou ,c un.s'"id- e th
'h a,re not n.a. ,ed... . - • D,o ctors a.ud. bankers. '\ e may gratify thew
som,e of' these dilys,,, but the w.1y •e. Joo at thin.g s now· we think those
~'tJ) . use· of
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bis fee fi.x,ed by law.
Q. H ,e o ·n11ot alw·3 s1s coll,ec.t it.. I h 1,ve noticed t-hat m,y,self~ But
the poiut w·_ ot 'to get-at is, bow in. this Ko'igbts of Laboror.g anizatiou
the eruplo~rers get on.! Do they come i, - · .'illin_gly,, aud are thel· reeog·
nizing it as a good 'thing· for th~m Y- A. Iu the s.w.a.11 to ,- ns ~he, do,,
in the West es1 _- ci,tll~y,. but he·r e in tbe Eas,t~the, 1nen 'l ook upon..·m1t]oy ers ,vi.th .- uspicion and th i■e i,s. a kiud of f eling llev · lopetl.- it i. ', uot
1·eal or genui:ne~ ye·tt.wtai11. iudi\'" iduals are ,a fraid that if' rSOme ewplo,yers
g·e t in th- y will i11jeet som e _
g ood tomnmon sen- e.and their little influence
would b ,vi11ed ont j btlt we ur,g e tb.ai. the ain1 of the order i8 to gi ·t . tbe
two- to,:tet be.r as soon as 11ossib!e,, heeantie we reco.gnize, that the i ntt-:t1
1
ests of both are ide-ntical,
·
Q Do -·ou thiuk that. the Kulg·li,t , of Labor -. ·ill aeoo, 1Jl·li' h that ob. .
Ject a4lld secu.t-e som,.. thing JL ~e uu.i·t.y 01· acti.o o bet,veeu ,e nipl.Oj"'eJ ,, a1id
em1,loye,s f -. ·_ . 1 -· wa_y nut iu the near ft1 l nro, but, i't eerta.l u'IJt is a 1St,e1,
in t.bt, riglJ't dir~ution, a~.1d. it it; best to go u.p fhc hill the righ.t road t.ban
tu .1 0 np the ,vr,ong road.
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Q. Yot ·maJ." ,g·o on with your statem,e nt.-A. acbiuery has a teude11 F.Y to ch ·.apen labor. I reooHec·t ,, lien w,e n in ms;, ·trclde of box-1oukiug-l"eeeived _ln-ee tlol.larrs _p er .houdred making oil ca ttS. To-tla_y. with
the aid of wach·i uer), t e nianufaetunar gets, oue houd.t td ta es uaruJ,e.
for tu"'·· u t ~ -two cents4 Formerly, ten 01. t,vel ,·-e. yeol'r s, a,go,. beJ w,e re
paid 'three dollars JJ r buudr _ti for· uailin.,g the cases together·. . - No·"·,
witll the aitl of a uail machiH ·, th.ey are made tor t"·eu:ty +t?t. o cents, a,
hundred. Tllis ser·,res, to · bow that the sa ,e. ioftueneets are ·work ·in
otb r tra,t les.
' "'noo tbe a1 ,e.ra~e ea1i11iugij of labor are abo11t ~ ·400 11er
y~ a r..
1cu ,,.- or but halt" ·t i lll e.. I kno \\~it is ,l iffi.cn It to, app,l y a .re.m.,ed_
y
Jere, bu.t if the Gov6rnme1J't w;its jostiJied 1u f1•,t!e.ing tb.e Hlaves of tile
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
'South upon the sa·me ground it should come to the relief of labor.. These
ag -oeies, are more :p c,werfol to eosJave labor 't b,a n tbe ,s lave dril',e r's
whip,. ':I·be:m'!,chine-eats notb~ng, wears no, clothes, yet it does tbe _orlr
al:1~ost a,s, good as, i.f ma -.e by human band1s~
Q. '¥on do :o ot o,ppose these im_
provem.ents in machin •·ry '! ~ A., We
tlo not oppose them.
Q Wh,a t wou)(l yon do to ooable, the laborer· to get his ·i ncreased.
. proportion. o,f tb,e prod.uction of the labor- of the maclrh1e with the
em·p Jofer I-A Reduce the hours of labe,r all over· thi··- country o,n a
certain d,a y by a ·natioDa-1 act.
Q, AIi classes of 'l abor aJik,e t-A. E ,v eJything'.
Q. If yon oonld make ··.b at measure a,s you thi:n.k it -·hooJd be to aeeo:m plish t'be en1d, to, what point wou.l d Joo make t:b e redn,c ti.-o n !-A..
To jus,t that point tha·t the d!e partment of io,anufa.ctu~es, or labor t·ha't I
re,t,e r to atberw.ards w,o uld be able to des,igna.te by a oollectiou of fac-t s
to be neeessary to-,rive employme nt to the people of t:bb;, eonntry·,
Q.. I -uppose as - pa1·t of such .a law you wou.1d intnJduce a pro,..isio11
tha.-t, no ~ lingle laboNr' s,h-ould work-more tba; - that 'ti.me 1--- · . Exactly..
I took the gro-und during the 'Wa:r that the ·people of the South. bad, oo,
right to buy slaves~ It ·w as a mdi,c al pro11osi'tio·u., Jet the peopl.e of ·t his
country,d,e termined · '1,at i sliouJd ·be·~ I know that 'this is a radical propositi1on, and 't llere. are lotrs, of people wbo - ould want to w,o,r k, tw l1 ·e,
tbirteen_, fourteen,, and sixteen hours ai d.ay,, an·d if they we·re. pre -entetl
by thbJ law tbose people who a,r e in 1-,a;v,o r of ·t be fi~e age cy ,of the .rn:di-vidlut1, a.ud ,a ]I that ,ort of thiD,g, woutd protest against it; but it ~ll'D
be; demonstra ted by an :inve .:tigation. that ma ·:h iu.e rl~is,di1s,pla.c1og labo-r,
and 'it is-th.e,du.ty of the Go,rerume nt-, based. upon the _p~ncipl'e on wh.ieh
th is Gov,e rn men t is b ·_se~t!°' st. p 'i u and 1ak.e care, of tho e poop1e who
are tbrown out 0f ork1 ~l.]Jereare 0th.er .' ·a J~S ofreac'h ing it, but I think
that is, tbe m.o st practical "Way.. I r-e co~nize that it i8 ,a very l'ad·ical
wa.y,. howe _,e ,,i
·
·
Q, Yon. think it -the same, thing· "n effect to the laborer to, co,m pel him
to work. an:d. do w 1 at labor there bll -for no:hing, that 'i -, i's to take· ·1he•
labor itself aw·,a y so that there: i - but ..,e ry h1tle for him. to do~ -A
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Q.. lf 1.he im·p .roye,m,e n ts in maehin,e ry :8-ho~i.Jd go out i , would. 'be 11eeessa.r,.
· from tin1,e to time to m.a ke stil.l tbi-tl1f.l'r rt'dut!tion of t·be laours of
rJ
labor, would i , 11,o t.T--A~ Exa~tly, an(1 the more lei,s nr,e the· ,~ei·a,_. e ~!iti ..
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z~u " ·oul,l b.a\'"'@ the better· citizen be: would beoo,me by ha 111.g aH. opJJor. .
tut1 ity to edoe.ate I ·im;self~
,Q,. I belie~e Dr. , Frauklin h 1d that four· ho,urs 'W M, enough. time, for a1
m1a u to wor-k if e,Tery man d.id ,v-orlr; but tb.e :msnlt wonJ1d be, ,i f iwproY-e•
we ts. go on~that, the period would h · , Te to be reduced to six ·h ours and
perhaps s·till low~r,. would. it not!'- A.., y~ ,. sir; btl't I am willing ,t osee
Roruetb'ing in m .Y lilel'time.. J will ],e t people 'W ho ,eo,m,e after me fight for
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wh:at more.can be ha,d.
Q~ Yon th.ink they can contrive ways to get on aceordin.g to their o _,_.n
conditiou !'---A., •es. sir..
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By .- - ,. C,ALL :,
Q. Suppose we. ·h ad. your idea carried. ,o nt and we bad, brougb.t m.ai-ebineey to sueh a 1
&tate of perfection that no ma,nnal. wor ·--_ ·a t aU w·as, required, that the ·production ,of the, couol,ry - . _a~ snffici.,e ut for ,e·v en 't he,
oo,1ufortable and luxunoo_s, su.pJM)rt ,o f ,e very man in i.'t, ·t hen \,,e sbonld,
h,a ve a qnet.ti.o u. of tbe ,di;s tribution ot" it, how macll each ·m an could
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gra,b or get, should we
'D,ot
t ,B ow ,a nd by w·h at
p1'0Ce88
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would you
:- s·. .· BETw
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regnlate ·that T Of course logically it "s '\-ery clear .if these ideas are.
oo,n ect ~ and I do not,. dispute. th.em-that tbe t•roducti,·en~Ks caused. by
iuveDtioo is ~o grea·t t 'b at there is .n ot empluyme:u t for th.e manuei'l labor
or·the country..
'T h.at is 'the p ropositio,n upon. w·bi ~bi aH tbe· e tb : orie ·.
Let ns ~up pose,, as may very w II be if that t;11te of thiuor-s
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are ba ed.
1s to•cootiune 011.ti.l the amonn·t of bnma,n. 1abo.r requ~
site will be the
minimum, there will be a \"a.s t nu:mber, a - the argnm,e nt now assumes,
o.f un.ieniplo,·ed people.. The question tbe:n, of course, ·will oocnr·,a,s to
the d·istri.butioo of th.is proclttct·i.0,01, w'ill U. not, t;O th.at ev,~rybod., . ,s hall ·
get his share ¥:._A., I do not propose 'to :i nt,e .rf'tare. with the JJrest-·nt ,sys-•
t'em of proonctiou.
QI 1
0 f course yon ,d o not, but .y our idea assumes and the very Ilroposi•t on · ou .ha,r e made here is 1:hat 11r:chh1·_ r,~bas ·impro,"'e(l so m.ocb tba.t
it Juts 'b ecome a substitute for large am onnts of un mployed labor.; is
it uot ·t -A.. Exaetly..
Q~ TJ1at i.is the fonndatio·n of a]l . ou sa::r
11· it. has ,d one so in. the pas ·, .
of cours ~. there ·i s e,fer:y rea on to assume it, ill con.tinue to do so, iti
there :11 ·. t- ·~· l\f achinery wi:I continue. to i mJlrO ·e 1nore .a n,l more h .·· re,..
aft · · r, it being substitute for labor·'. -A. I thi:n·k i has reached its
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Jimi:. : i.n some brancbes..
Q~ '\ V.b y a.nd upou wha data do -oo assume ·t hat it has, reached it.:s
1huit i.u nor braacb .- ~\.. I spea l" from m3 · o·w n ex:perience. ·w e ba,··e
a nun rn ~1eh·i ne iH onr U.ne of bt1siu.~ss, and the.} •c annot n.ail the boxes
to~etber· aa:r faster.
Q. ,;\ e s.ball not discuss th9t; but why cuu]d you not nan tt1i· m an rf11st r · -A Because the .h andling i . ·ffldoced to tlte minimum ,u1.d 'the
na11ing ·sjus as. :fJ.s:t .a s 1·he macbiues can b - dri en..
Q~ Is it not possible it might be im1•ro·, ,ed so that ~..-on ·would not have
to do any bandHug at alJ I For iue.t an e, I sa.1,v· ~ mac.b ins tb.e other
da,y h}" vrhicb you p•n t a bl.an k piece of paJJer tn a p•r ess and it ea n1 out
.all beautin1Uy engra,-etl and priuted-a IH) w ·p ostal note; and the machin · is. •c apable of be:i n.g s1ihstituted for tbe "~ur k of tb irt. p OJ• le.~
A, I i~resunie there is ti uhan.,· ..· of .redu.ciug the handling.,, bot tliat. I
think,. bus got down to the rnioimu.m.. .' .f .i t goPs in .raw and eotr1es 0ut
al riih· for- d li,•,e ry, I think ·.· l1at bas. reached it · limitt
Q. I do not know ; or·co-tu·s.e · ·e can no·t tell a.bout that.
merely men ..
tioH that ns a new thing. I would. not like to ,say that even t:hat harl
reaeb.ed it8 rnalXimum.. We· n1ight fi1.1d one ·p . rhaps. tba·t \1·,ould m:a·'.e
the 1ta1, r an l do this. work t'oo.. The.re i : uew issue or Government
work. A 1nan has inv·e ntcd a m1achine by wbieh what wa,. · put in a
blau - pil ce ,of Jl~tpe·r com · out at the :r, te of twenty S1beets of thes .
e,·eQ" nd~11tc.. [Exhibi ·in.,g a postal uote.] A .. It d.isp nses wi 1b seV'E
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e,r al 111ach1ne,N~.
Q lt is a rsobatitnte. fo,r tbirtJThan<ls Io ·ly sa.1~snppose it _wns re~.
duce,. to a m1nimum-i.'t ,du .·· . 11ot ma -t er·how .m uc.h-sn'tbo tbere was a
, :iis _ u,nount ·.· f sur1,,luH labor., as .· •ou. ilia •· th . . re is 110,v·, itod 'Ke ll~ill a. ·.,~
,8'ume it to go ou, the ,q uestion will be hat to•do ·w·i th that )')rod.net.ton,
l1ow to J!'·e t it ··uto . f",e r:rbodJ's hand :-A. I can usw- r that.
Q . , T b a't i- .· ·w ha I " ,t •i. to,k uo,v . - .A... If 26 per eenL.ot tbe p·p;opl. .ate
out of wo k, and, unde·r the :reduction oft e bo1tr . of labor, that 2 '"" 1,er
een ~ get to work and earu wag,es,. tb •y t.(!ll urne th.at whi.c b l ou ,e·l~ti u1~
Q . Bnt SUJ)IJOSt:, they are all out o:t" eln.ploy1nent.. A .. I do not ass.nn1e
tba-t.
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Q,. It oulJ ,.,ends to show tbe.force aud oot·rectn ··.· .·. of' ,yonrideas.. Tbe
que~ti oJ1 of di~ tri bu ti~-u, w·h · t.I1e1· there ate one.~b a If t J1e Jteop h:. ~ 1n ll ·OJ ed.
,or oue-th.:l'd or oue-fou.rtl1, the guestion bo·w to .g et this vast product
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RELA.TJO'NS BET'W E:E N L.AB,OR AND CAPITAL.
equally distri.'b uted ,so that every man sl1all get bis reason. ble sl ar,e., is
what .1~on aoo, arter.,, is i 'Dot · -A. Yes, sir·.
Q. ·You sa.y do it by Oh hour, t\ro hours, th~ee bonr.s, si houris, or
eigi1t bours.. If you ca1 get th.at done it i'8 w "1at yon waut ·_, A . ,,. ""
l'rOU Id. uot dis tnrb, the e.-·s'ti ng lU(!tbods of ,d i' ~ t'ri butioa ; \'\" . Yf Oll hi t,.i ma
ply pnt lll0re ·m en to \\'ork, ·.:o that, tbe surplus, oo·n ld be distributed and
cousnm.ed.
Q. You reco,gnize tbe ·fac·t that it is a q._ estiou not of piioduet.ion, bo.t
of 'I he distriho ti:00 o,f pro(Juction, how to et it so ,d istributed th.ut ta'"ach. ·
man shall h.a.v,e a good boase, ;i. gHod coat-, and hiiZS ,,rife .and ehildren tbe
necessaries and comforts of li·, ,.ing~ Is not tha the. id,e a .·- A. Bn·t
there would be mo.re 11rodoced under the eig.b ~honr syste.w.
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POWERS o,F GOtVE'R NMEN.T •.
Q.. I merely ·wanited to see wht,tb.er or not the sa-- e ,eoono·mies, rego~
latiug the di.t itribntio,i, .are 11ot t ·h e e _._sential part. of the J.•roblem at last..
Now., ~~ou ·N!ooguiz.e the fac~ t'ha·t your theory of natior~al leA:islati.~01.
redu.ci 111 the hours of" 1a·bor· in all pr.iv ate employments th.rou:g hont tb"
-.
· h ,ol e
· cn, n.ntn,
· - "' ·requires
.- · I ch
·,.- ange
· ·.· 10
r m o,f gn . ernme 11__ t , d o-"' - - a·. ·r · · I~
,..· · ·o-1.1r flo_
w
_1ca
you. not ·~· · · ou .a m aware ,of the fact ·t hat. it Congres ·•· to-dai p,a ssed
,~ucb a Jaw as, yo-1 .s peak of, i't , ou.ld be utterlJ uugato:ry t-A Uule ·, .·
i.t eam,e i.n the sbape of a co,nstitnti.o nal a.mendnu~nt.
Q.. Precise·1,-.- a cban,:!C by ,oon . titncion.a.t a1uendui nt of the- eJjsting
to;rtn of'" ,co ernment Well, do I 1nde~sta.nd -on ·t hat l ott and tb.e
opinion that )~Ou represent--w·bicb., of course, is a v,er-~ .· aluable 'body
ofpublioopin,iou, an~I oug'ht to be cousidered and oonsulled- : r-e in favo1t
of a radi,eal cba.nge iu the ,existin.g form ,of go,Ten1tnent bet.w·ec n StutP
and Feder.al JlD\\'"er !---A.. Under the ex.isti.ng· form of gor-ernment..
Q . OU .kuow OU.l" e,x isting fo,rn1 of governm nt d,e pri,~e8 th.e. •• atioual
·G0ivern·meu·t ,of' t.b ·. sc pow.ers and remit::1-, tbe·m to the States !-A. \Ve
·fart on t with th is. 1,ro1 •osition, that t bis GO\'ern mcut is 'ba.sC?d ,o n t Ii c.
principle fha·t i·t is. for1ned in tbe i.ntere t of tb·e, people, and th~l· I.he
law under which we live. to~day may be . o a1neuded as to sa iiis fJ' tbe.
wisheg of th .· people of to-n1o·rrow.
Q.. under~, ta:nd. that you. think that would b . ·be...q.t , but I am asking
;ll 'ci ft,cu lly d,o 3' 0U.think that the pu'l1lic opi niom you te()~ . e1l . bOYl d.e s
m1auds a11 eot.ire ,u bauie 1n the form and structure of tbi.s Governm.e nt -._
A~ I do uot a :su:me l at we ins'itst on the im1n0di -t,e. ste1> being taken,
but we lead :UJ> t·o that voiut and hope in time tode,,..el,op a. stroioa-·enongb
1u1h!it .. nt:imeut. to reach that, · JHt w ·e hay,·e 1seutse en.OU:,!h to kno,v
ti 1at vre cannot revolution iz-e the worltl i.n a ,d a.y 01· in .a 11100 th~·
Q,.. I und, r8tand, 1 am onl\7 asking as. to tne opinion. Yo11 tbin.k
tb~u the opioi,ou i.s :growing that a nationa·1oousolidate<l aud oentndizetl
1-epnbJi,ca.n go,~·ernm e11t sbould. be ,created. iu place o.f Ille exi~ting oue f .~ T'l1at is another question ..
Q.. · hat1 I nnderrs tand t.o be a. conso1hlated. or ceu.traHzed national
gO·\?e·r'lln:1eut is, a govurament that has. power to le·g i ]ate iu 1·egan.l to all
tl•t~ 1.•, latio1 .s of tile l,)eople. ·t ht'1ngbout the ,vhole ter1·itory of ··. tat .~,
T'hat is the · rclinar:r n1eanin1? w , git'.- to su ,. h ,g ovs· u eu·: t------A~ But
that is, uot the 01.eaning I desire to convey. 1 des~r 10 L·ou,Tey tbe
lH ean iDg' tba.t the peO[lle a re the, po \l er i.u t It i,s CO uutr5 ,, autl th Mt j 1· t 11 t!'
Gov·e1"ume11 ls oo:otr-dlized under tbi:s se.he1ne,. u·· :ron a,s u1n : ,. it '"~ould
be th .- wi h of th·-, people.
·Q.. Undou tedly,. bnt still tbe J<lea. re·ma.iusll The Ileop .e n .,v ,g o\ ern,
bu;t tbey go,~e, .o. in a dufe. · nt waJl•. T·bey gov cru tbroug b S tat~ s. cl 11ll
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tit . y go .-.rn tbroo.a b .a F'e d,e ral Go, . ,e rnm:e nt.
·:·· o,v, we am talking ..· bot\t
a respect in which you prop ,e. to ch.~ugethe po er ,o f gov·ern:m. nt aHd
(}-0,n f . ·t 0 the National Congr .ss and Pre·s·i dent to make a law r go)a ting t e co t ~a ~t wbtc'b. ._ ba11 be ma,d :·· between two indi,. iduals.
Under our p·re eut fonn of gove·r nment th.a t pow -r i in your- 1St.11te of
New York, if it ,e ists at all; i.f it is not p roh_ibited h,y ,you:r Stat,e bill _of
rights i:t ·i s i . ,. l ou.r 'imm diat ., le,gi .Jat.ure~ 'T b .·. ·r .·agoo I as'ked , ..ou the
question wa , to ·know -,, hetb,e·r or n. t , tbe opinion. that yon ri .p•r e · e nt itJ
·iookingf-or . ard toachan . .· ofourf:orm of government in tbatre · peetlA . Io that ·r espee·t we clairn that th ·_ States oould 1m
nch law
We
'h ave one in oo.r State, but it is virtu&lly -· uJlifted. Jt. 1s impracticable
to make or to com.pet any rS tate to m.a ke thi . la ·. ... It m.ust be a narioua'l
Ia .., because oor _ nteres ,·, all over · be country are. ",deo~ieal. _T.be
1 uufactures of '. e _ ·. ·o r·k and. the manulactu·r e of otber I rg · citi . .
. ""O a1 I O\' r t -e eonntr\", and i.t must b - a natioua,1 law.
Th . re i • ·n o
r0'tl1er way to reach ir.
Q.. ·y o,i 't11.iuk ·'heft' is · ue·h -·u opini,o :· growing up favor."' hie to such
form of go,· :rnment ~• 1vill be abl to exe:r t th _t resul · !- A. Favorable
to that proposi't1on Ynn ·°'-r e try:ing ·t o g t m · ,c omrnitted. to a centraJ ...
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:ized go,··er1·tmen't..
Q. Ne,, I 110 not wanr, t · ,e ommit 3~ou to aoytbi,n ,g, Ism not discuss
ing your id aR~ We ,,·ill u · e. a,notber phrase; w will say "·:favor..
able to th., ~xer.eise of Ueh a ·power by tbe. ··. atio a\ GoY" roment as
,,. iU do that"'.'' ; -ou m.ay ,~all i.t centrnJized or m·p ublican,, or a.nyth.-i ng
) on 1den e..-il, If the n tional l egi~latore hould. pass sn act a -ting
the 'lt'"'ghilato.r e" l of th . .· tat-: ,. to · ot for .a n ameod·m:-ut to tb . Cou· 11tntion~ l ·u·onld oonsid ,r that the a.c t of tbe peopl.e, and not tli'e act of'
a .··~utraUz .d g,o,;ren1m,e t.
Q. \Ve will not ll'i.scus• · about that. Of coorse it 1s th,e act of the
Jleople·. \\f- e are on'IJ" que tioning ow the p< ople cboos·e to brin.g it,
abou ~ I a.ni a ki.ng w'h t 1s your idea .a: to the manner in, whic th ·
i,enpl : sba I c oo, e to bring about. tb.i .··. Tesnl ·!-Ajj, I ba,··e jas.t stated.~ .
Q . That, I unde·1r,s tau.d ,you,.! w nld ·1,e by thee ·eroise of author:i t.v ·h3'~1
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the :ati.oua1. Govemm1•nt T- -·•
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hat lie national !egi laitu,e s:ba;u say
to· 1. h.a var.i.ol»J Stat ... that a con ti tot.ion"' l amendm,e nt sbaH be ad.op,ted
1·
1lesignatiug ti .at the hours of 1-bor all oirer this co _otry· ,s ball be so,
· ueh, or the hours of labor shall ·be redo ced i:rom time to time ·_ a ce,r..
tah1 rt1 partment, w·h ieh w·o uld_be charged with ·the do.t •. ·of in·· t2Sitigatl'ng
the a·1 oouut of procluction and th -, maHn .~r of its di tnbotion, 111 onld be
., 11) to llesienate., If · h1s de1m;rtment di co,..t . ~ that there was a great
•l e;d, of" 110,·ierty anll 3 n-eat ·m~·n rr 111en uud women out of ·m.plo_men.t,
it wuul,l be in the po,ve·r of' this d.·. partllieut to reeom.m end to-Uoo,gress
tl1a the ho 1rs of labor should be forth ·r redaced, so that tb,e people
oou·l d be al ays emplo:red.a-od 'be comfortable an,d prospe.i~ons.. - Q.., I ••OM tar ~·s you do, a11d Is .· .··path11ze as ·mo.c h as you or any
oth~r man. to that cud,, aud I am wtHing to go for anything·in the world
'tbat -will. 11ract.ically brin.g t.bat about, to wit, the general comfort of
·v,er1 man, worn.au.~and child. in the cotio'try". Now, I wan.t to sho . yon
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that .I do not mean. by· - is qo.e· t'iou to ,d iscuss or oppose your id!e a; I
onl_y· want to fiud o,ut,w·h at the tb,eor3 ·is. Would you beeHiti'rely. w1Jli.ug·
to commit ·t he ·welfi __N , of 1J OU.1-family and your· b·u,s iuess t,o tb1e decision
of' t e commi . · io -er ,o f some bureau aa to th,e amount of work that
ought to be done by each man t - As an. ·-•conomic matter, · onld yon teal
sare ·- -A.. If ·.•·ou were to ;n t that qnestion io another way I w,i ght an1
s . er it.
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Q. ; und,e rstand ,~oa are a build.e r ; that is your ·business. Yott contra_ct for building,, ,d o y-~~ n,o t I A. No; I am a box maoufactnr-er.
Q. Would you be willing to, trust auy othe, ma_n bu-t, ,yourself~ say, a
commissioner_oft'heNati onal Go·vernment, to sa~ how many bo.xes j ,oa.
should man.ufac·t um, or, bow much work, yon s'hO'old do ,o r, sh,o-old not
dot Wou_ld you feel satided tbat y·o ur busiaess could be eo:ud11cted
with. safety by anbs,t itoting his judg,m ent :l'or yours. :i"n regard to,that!---~ lf I were to be s,ingled.011t, of course I would ol)ject, b'ltt if the pro p•
,o s ,tion were general and everybody 'Would 'be put o:n ·tile .s a·me .le,l'·el. wi1th
myself, I would ·n ot object.
Q~ What secarity w:o uld you lla,·e that the propo .itio,n would be ,an_y
better· _g e·n erally than it w"Ould be, indiridua llyl-A. B_y the la,wdeelar1
in_g it.
[ · .t thi r.oi D't fbe e a· in·~·t ion. -. -.·as suspended foT the present in co,n1
sequen,ee of the, engagem~nts of anothe,r witness, who bad been ,sum
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mooed and was,. in attendanoo .]
By· the OHAIB'MA?f ,:
Ques'lio.o., You are the --
: Hi'
tant g:e neral. manager of tlt.e Western
Union T:eJegraph Co,mpany !- Answer. Yes, si,r,.
,QI! How·Jo·n g ba e you held that position t-A. T . :o years,,a.-nd. a half.
. . .•
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tr'PQ-p' ',h-.y 'PA 'IC V]vg'31
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I entered tbe tele_g raph business, in It09, and have occupied various
positio,n s in it si'uoo theu, from that of operator to my present position
of acting vi,ce-presiden't and ,as ,istant general .manager of' tile. w ·estern
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Union Te·t egraph Oompany1 During the war, ·was in charge of t ·he
War Depart1nen·t telegmpb oftlce under Seereta~y 8'tantou, w·i th Gea,e ral Eekerit aa my ao,p er-.or, and I 'h a-v e. ·r e.m atned with him ,p ractically·
as hi assista,n t eve·r a.in.ce,
,Q•. With. wha't O't her oomp ·ui ·· _, bave, ,y on been couneeted ·t -A. With
the Penn ~.lvania Ba:i lroad Company·, the Atlantic and PacUlc Telegraph
Compa.ny, an,d the American Uni.on Telegra,p h Company. I have, also
been ,eon-u.e eted 'With ·v arious local o,r g~n~ation s-.:for· insb!nce, the1
American. District 'T elegraph Company of' th'is city, of which I am. ,no·w
the v~,cell' presid,e nt, a:nid also the, Holme _, E lectric P-r otective Oom_p any
of this e-ity, a company, ,o r~ .· ized for protection against burglan.
Q. y ·o11 ·were wi.th the W · ·.·t em Union Com:pan_y in the disebarge of'
t'be do.ties o.f your office du.ring the late str.1k.e , I suppose 1-JL I was.
,Q. G-i'v,e us ,a history of the strite. froin your stand_point, in your ,o wn
way,. That is, a q;ue ,,t i,o n calling fo:r ae mmnte a s'tat.em,e nt as you may
see · - t to make, Yon ean com, ence with. the origin of tile 1st.rib and
gi,v ,e us its full h'istory·, wi'th the can.sea which. led to i.t , aa well. aa ·t he
-A. For 1everdl years
w'h- ile tbe stri.ke wu pend.ing.
actual ooco:ne:-ces
the Western Unio -·, Telegraph. Company became -w gnizan't of eflorta
bei G'' 'mad.e by so·me of its employes to ,organize, them.eeltt-es with employe ", of other companies 'into wba i i.s, kno,wn aa 't he Knight.a,of labor,
_he. telegraphers~ bra,n ch be·i og ,c all.e d the Brotherho od o,f Telegra:p hera
of the. U.n ited ,S tates and Canad _- , wbic,h appean t.o have been.organized
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,aa Difstr,i ct, Asse-mb~v , ,o,_45 of the K·n igh,ts o ·' .L abo·r..
It would -~ , dif..,
&cult for me, to make any statemeot of the causes o( t-h.e strike,. except,
pe-rha·ps, ·t o, rel te as brieft, v as may· be the ,h istory of the a:tri ke as I am
aware ofit.
4-0i 2,--(_,5 LAW)
"'
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
During Ifay of tins ·y eay, in the d·i!s charge of my duties as viee--presideo.t,
oflbe American. District Telegraph.Com·p a. : y ofthi1 city., I learned ofdi-f:llc.nlt1es tha.t w-e re growin_g np amongst the men i:o the tlis.cba.rgeoftheir
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dutitaa in the line ser,'ice. In the -case o:f one of the.men,,William S-ulli1 a•,
who had been em.pl,oyed. by ~b,e A ·m erican DiRtriot Telegraph Oom.p any .a
num.ber of years a.go to perform services :a s. carpen·ter, he was gradually
tran fer.r ed to re.go Jar du y as r-epair-·m•· nor l'in.e·--man-, the carpenter ork
not.taking all of his timei. Bi .aaJar. , i75 _p er month, was greater bl,"' 8J>
or I IO than tbe regular salary of 0th.er liu~men in th.e District Company's
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ser,·ice.
Duriu.g th -· mouth.
~r·xa,y JJ,e ·w as call.e d ·n poo to ·p erform dn-t.~.-
as carpen·ter iu on.e of'the offices of tile oo·m,pan1y in a·n emerge:noy. Be
1
r-efn:sed to com:11ly with 'the order. Upon 'b eing asked -for his. reason · .
he s.t a·ted tha.t be was no . ·in the line · .·rvice of the company and be
dtd not pro-po . . to tlo ny more work for the eom.p auy exceptiog in th, ·t
·p an1oular d i.1~-artm ~nt. lnquirl developed the fact t-b.at be ·. as a me·m.be·r ,o f t·be Brotberbood or 'T,elegraphe· ·., and th.at on,e of ·t be principles
1
of th.at. orga.ntzatiou was t,o ,e on6.:n e the doti s, o( tbe respecti·ve· mem~
hers to a p.artieu·Jur JiHe o,f duty .in tbeir e.mployment.. Another of
·t b-e ir pri ci'p,J,es, was · .o t to teach others t be bu. .,ineas so- ~r as tbey
-oo .Id prev .- nt.. U'(JOio being 10 ormed. that uu]ess b.e obeyed. 1: be ord-e-r
to do carpeut :r ,,~o,r k, ·l or ,tl-oiog ,vhic hi · a3 ha,d een ti~ed. at t,·5,per
montrh, i.n conuectiou n"ith. h:i s ot er duties be would be redue . cl to line
pay·, ta or '"'O p r moo th Jes ·, he tendered 'his. resi.•. ,n a i-ou,. which ·was
at once aoaeJlted In .a.twm1,t·ug to fill his phwe by. a ·-"igning t ·· gro, .
iug sergea.u l in tbe. compa.n3, who had had. some little ex.perienoo 1n
the bus1nest1- ot" tine ·.. ork, tbe forema~ tn uh _rge of the pa·r ticular department., Mr. Sw.ansoo,, decliuecl to, gi
·the ap1)motice any inforn1ati.on about. wire or the dutie . of bi... ·. p,r opos d posi'tio:o , and inform ·. d .
the oompan_y th · t be: did not 11ropose, to teach an:vbody anything in re,.,
garo to ·n·-e w·ort, Inquiry ·1e·veloped the. fact in this-case also · hat
Swanson wa . a ·m e. · her -o f the Telegr,a phers' D,rotbe·r- ood, a ·d npun
his .a bsolutely re·fos.ing· to obey o~de:r s, he was disebarged.
A ,eo py· of t:he constitnt.ion aud by--J · ws of· th .· Brot 1erbood of Tele_
,:-..
rapben eame into my po .-•ession about ·this time,I .and in explanation
oif Sullivan',& and 8waosou'~ refiosal to obe . ordera:, a _reference was
made to ·t be b,y -Ja,ws refen · d. to, article 15, section. 1 of which. says.:
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Ho member of tide org=i,11ization aha-I inetmet · ny perMn in the-art of te]egrapb.y
aui U Lhe. lo 1 · _~ UIbly o.f w bicb 'he i a em her · haU have ·f irst. g .mn:ted per.uliMIOD
to (lo 68, .a nd ont U said perm]Nion shall have been ratifi,ed by the ,u .ecative board of
Ul di tnct, ~mbl _, .
-
Jt. was e .ide-nt that tbe bu-si'ne ., · of ·h e company·could not be carried
on if we. yielded to the dietatioo of ,such absurd and arbitrary regula4•
. .I110
• a, 1ew
d.· al"·- a 1·"~r
~. . . 8·- ..· auson·a
' d.,.. ,sc
.,. h
-' .. rge, · 1.m.o st: t. h-e ,. ntin,
..
tions, ,· . ·o d wit
li:ne force ot" tbtl Ameri:,eian. D1stri,c t Com11a.n y left their pos.ts of dnti~"
witb.00&1notice., ·w itb·o n·t an_
y app·Jio ·tioo for tbe :r ·. dre_ .-iug of aoy 8Up
pot!ied grie: an,ces, an:d, .a s •. a- _! a\f ter~~rds learned, ID obediea.ce to al
aeer,e t order from tho Brotherbood o,f ~elegmphers.
Q.~ : ·o,w large a force was. th1st-A~ It :n umbered fro·m twenty ft . e to
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forty men.
Q. Wbere was the. seope of their work t:_A.. w · ith.1n the cit .· of New
Y01 k., a11d. t elr work ·p ertained to the keepi-og i.o order of the Arne:r icao
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Dist.riot ,Q om,p-a- l'' wire oonnecti'og with the o · ces, houses, an(l factories or the sobscribe1s to the number of .a bout.12,000. Bo that ·i t was a
v ·e ry 1m1,o-r tant matter to tbe company to .k eep its wires.
operation,
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as you .m ay nnderstan,d .
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
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Q", These ·B ■bseribers w,ere business.men arcely t A. Busin1:ss meu,
ltott,ls,. exchange ·, private houses, all ,c lasses and departments of busi~
ness aud aoeiety made use, ,o f tbe.distn.e t service to eaJI messenger boys
and, IM)Hoemeo, announce a ftre, or, call for a d.oc.tor, or ·use the ·igua a.
for iuuumerabl :uecess,i ties.
.After the Jinem1e n of the •Co.mpauy .h ad left their posts of dut • every
e'.ifo.rit was of oourse ma,1,e to fi.H their place , fi~ t by· th.e employmeot or
ex1aerienced Hne·mt\o from. other cities, it having been ,ascertained that
tht,.rep~ ir m.e n of ew·y ·o rk Ci~y ewJ)IO)!~etl by the var.i ons eompauie~ aud
11nmberin,g in. all lbree or foor buudred meu were, also m,e mbers of the
1. •
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T~legr.aphers' Broth~rbood. Ai1nost .immediate:ly th"re eosned. a BJ t ,e uu,tic eutting aHd crossin,g o,f our district, wire ~
QI ltVbat is the ,e.ffec.t ,of tbe.crossing·of wires!-~, The urossin.g of 'two
wires causes the electric cu.r ren'I to be d&vertetl from one to the other
at the point of crossin -. BO a to either oeot·rahze or eoofase the e1goals.
Thi3 cutt10,c of wires l>eca1ne a mots·t sei-ious matter to us, and., ,u ,
stated before, we ·w ere eompe.Hed t,o emplu . a large num·b er of men fro.m
ulber companies, and prdc;tically ueceeded iu ,overcoming· most of the
dHlieulty; whereupon, about the, 1st of J11ls·, a, COWDlb 1ieation
86
received. fro·m ,J ohu Campbell, re11reseuting the Teleg 1~hen' Brother,h ood,, adtlr _ , d to Gent!t. l Ecker', or the Wes,te:rn Union Cou1.pa11J"',
,a ud statio.r thatTb,e Brotherbood of elegraphere. look npn·n tile in·Mi:m - ·nee. at olieen or .YDDI' ,com.
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p _·DJ _ii · be difflcul~Jr · .,PJ~niil - _ ctw· n •-he A.werf . n Di t~ict Telegraph"c~!)lpany
and 'It&, ew.p oy&, ·t ile, bueweo · f New Yor·k• as 1 :1bwananted~•nd un1~ast.. Wea.tern
U11ion lhiemeu h· , e he~.o brrongh.t &nm,. broad [nm · niog ,o·tlher cities ht the .Uuited
Sta · ] a!ld compelled t,o take t ·e, places ,o f fai.t hfol meo wbo , · · eng~ned, in a atrug~
g,lo to nnnet an ·o:oneeessary reduction 0 f wagett..
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The only reduction ~of wages that we b.~d any "know.edge or·waa th.a t
of the fl.ve. or ten ,d oll :.~ ·.• p r
oIL,1 · i
the ea .. ·. of the f!arpent' .
· nd
lineman~ SoJlivan, at, the lime when he refused to do the w,o rk for which
be w.a s original'ly paid the larger amount ..
Q Wa , it distincfly unllerstoud w.ith him in b:isem1ploymen . 't hat this
other duty was ·i uclod.e d if you cho e to tlevolve it upon him. 1-A. I
ah011]d hardly lit.a to answer· tha't a·f flrmativ . Jy; but, the fact tlu,,t he
was otigioally e·mplo ed. as, carpenter and a·f t,e·rwards assigned to Jiue
,luty ten1porarily., and ·1 ate·r on perman.eutly, with no redol.-tion of wag,e s,
·woob _seem to be sn.mc,ie--,t;i
Q. , Was b,e receivi.ng ·m ore tb.an h,e naturally or·ordinarily would have.
,ecei,",etl as a lineman perfo.n omg tbe same work as he ,d id-before 1-A.
Yes, ir.
Q.. The fiv:e dollars ·i n exces . that yon speak ofl-A... Fiv,e ,o r ten dol
larn. .11 some caBes 't be linemen w·ere getti.og 800; 'in other cases 165
or 170.
_Q.. · hat ·w,as. be receivi'ng as earpeuter 1-A. Sev,e·n ty five dollan,,as
alrieatl) st . 'tied. Of coorse,l iu making tba't . ta tem,e n·t ,, it. a·hooJ;1I be remarked that while h e · as empliO)?ed as, a carpe.oter he was not em:p lnsed regularly at carpenter ~ ork ,. t .any 1i:m . .. ,- i,s skill as a earpe , ..
ter was on]y caned.. , to requitdtion i.n maki.u,g c'hang&c ,o r ftttin,g _p
coourers an(l partitions, and beoche· · i:n oor various district offices,-ana
·. ·bile do·o btle. .· ·. for a lo . g ti:we be d.i«I 1ittt.e. bot ca·11le11ter work:, 'till
,ht.ate· were many hours, ol mauy day 'tha.t be did. not do any work at all,
but bi pay ran along by· t]J,e mouth rie,ralarly~
Q", A . t , e.~1me of this reduction. he bad beea permanen.t,Jy, assigned
to dut,y as a, lin,eman 1-A. . ot b;y au,y fol'mal order,, bat u a ma!t ter o,f
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fact.,
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
5,'2
RELATIONS BETWEL'f LABOR AND 0,APITAL.
1
Q. As he understood proba.b ly -A . I cannot tell whether· he ander'"'
a,tood..it or .not.,
Q~ He ·a s understood 'b y 't he company to be permanently &Nign.e d
to lineman's ,d ntyt-A. No; I shonld. not sa:y tbat.
Q, The poiut wish to ,a rrive at ia this: Do you tllink that the linema,n h'imself unden:t,ood when 'the red11ction ·w·.as mad.e or proposed, of
i5 or -t-10, that be was tben r-e ceiviog compensation for 0th.e r ·t han lineman's duty, and was he reooi _io,g an3- more than some. class of linemen
w,ho periormed the sam,e serlice substa.n tially that be did,·- A.. I can
answ,e r that best 'b y sta't in,g '~ha _ so long as 'them wa,s, no ,q uestion be1
tween him anid the,-co.mpa,n_
y as· to the service be.performed be w&e. oon.tioued ,a t the hi.gber rate of payt The moment he indicated an onwill1
ingoess 10 do work outsid,e. o.f the. me•oo routine o:f the lin.e d.e partment .
'then he was informed that he would ba.i,·e to be redoced to t he stand~
of pa.,y givell to linem.e n.
Q.. I onderstan~ yoll to say that so.me .linemen :reooi,red ,11·0,,and tbas
he was, receivin.,g , ,75-1-.· ·. ~He was rnc,eiving ,18,75 at the time spoken of.,
Q.. At the ti'me of the proposed .r educti,~o l~A.,
•'r . _
0 • d@c·
!!ll.._t t· he ·t1i"'me h·Qo 01 th1'-lir •·h~ne---_... -mq,II 's. d·.oty
,:
Q _ A·. od
_I ·_.. 4'11
. .....~ -1,1;o ned
. ·.. ·_ to
'-··· d-1
q,n l1~
, .·.
, ·.:. ,~ ■-i!i nd
res, .
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'· _ _ . · .
.
1_. _
i:11 •-C-
. .1 ,;.. . . 11;\
,p ,D'. _
at tbs ea·me tim.e ·were other li'n.e m-e u receiving 1,7.5 t - .·.... Som,e of them
may have been,. I am ·ot,·in·formed as to ihat~, but-linemen of his a.l ass
1'",e re rece'i.ving 15, t.10, or ,816, per mont'h less ..
Qi That is the ,pomt; linemen of his,class, were. rece.iving less 1:- A«,
Ye ·, sir"
QI Go oD.~Ail! Leavin,g the dlffico]ty ·oo,tween the District Company
an.d. tb,e. lin.e men and the T,e l,e gra·p bers' Brotherbood for· t'h.e time. be-·
ii;ag, I ~ould ad,d that rumors ot a11 imYpending strike of the "W'es.t ern
·on.ion Com pan). 's employes bee me more and more frequent, towa.rda,
the la ·t of Jone aod earJy io ,J tdJ .,., a ud on the 16th da,y of ,J uli a committee consisting of seven meu ot" t.lte execatilv·e bo-ard of the B.rotllerhood of Tt!legrap·b.e rs ,c alled at th-eoffiee: of the Western Union Tele.graph.
Company '"u t'bisci.ty, and. prese·otetl wba·t they termed a'' me,moriaL"
Q. Have you a copy of' it I-Al! A -c opy of i.t I ·will hand you~,
Q:. Please ,s;tate the substan'Je,of it an.d tben lea,\"'e the copy with us.A. This me·morial calls for the, total abolmti.o or S'01lday 'WO.r t, 38 a
compuJsory duty nnles ·; 0001,p ensated as extra s···rviee; ,d,e mands that
,e.i g~t hours s'h all t.'Ous.titor~e ,& ,day·',s ·work, and seven hours a ni,gbt'a,
work; ·t hat both sexes, shall reooi,~e equal pay fo,r equal wor·k, and a
universal .i ncrease of 15 per cent1 on all salaries; that line~en. shall be,
allowed t · ·o, d , ·a' extra. pay for Sunday w,o rk.; that ·t:he 1,o·w est sa.l My
)!&id _a regol _! li0i~m~o shall _ ,be 165 per month, ~n,d. ~e'l.pers ,f150;, that
lineme.n's duties, sball be eonfined solely to th,e ir Jeg1timate work; that
tJh.e salaries of Wbeaitsto,ne ,operato.rs. 1SbaJI be increased in the ease of
first..,cla88 men to, 1'7ifi ller mon.th ,; aeoo ,d,rcla&S, 160 per 'W ODth; .~·nd Ill
ad,dition the la per cent.. increase asked for ~D. tbe gene.r at 1Se,rvice. I
,now _px-e&en't ,a copy 0:f he " m.e morial" i·tself.
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CENTRAL OFFICE, BROTH RBOOD OP TBLEGRA.PBBBS
01' THE
Umnw
STATES AND
c· · ADA...
Te:os,. T Eco RT, ,E sq.,
Oa.-al Jfaru,F aJ1d' Act·ing Preaiden t JYeskrn Un.io Telegnqil,,. ,t:Joapa11:y,.
1
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ATeta Yark Oitg •
._SIR: ~ undlers:i.gnedJ' the E1xeou ti y }!oar.d ol ,the .B rotb ~hood o~ Tel~gra:pheN
,o f the U1nted States. and. C ~nada, acting 1n aeoorda.noo with 1uatruct1e.n1 fro·m ·t hal
boo.;. , respectfully petition your fa·YOl"ahle ooo lderatioo of tbe folto,,w ing :m emorial
mnbodvi111g the, desires of au claue1 of e ·plo,y es.·t · 't h~ , .e.rv ice of t·h e W:eet.em Unaen
Tele ·· ,r apb Con1pauy:
8scr10~· 1.. Belle,Ti ng that, m ·.
1.
, physical
:l!
d .m,en·t a . w·elfare. req·w us that at lean
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
53
RELA'TIONS B-ETWEEN LAB,OB A.ND CAPl'TAL;a
1
eue ,d ay in sev n be accorded him fof' rMt aBd ner -ation, ·w e req aeat the ·t etal. aboli-•
of.Sonday work. as a eom,p·~Jeory dut:f,, nuJ~ ~mpensated as e:s:tra .a ervi~.
B&CTIOX 2. That ·. 't ght hoon,eha]l e.anltl'tute d _ytswor ·- ~•·o d&even houm a.night~•
~
work•.
SECTION 3~ Both .se. ,e s sh ·U receive. eq_o ~ _
p a _ fo.r ,e qnal . ork,.
.
SECTI0- 4~ That a anivereal uraereaae qf la per cent. on all ealar1ea now paid "be.;
panted,.
LINB• IHi',8 INTEREST&.
That eigbt hon.n sbal l coolti tu te a regal -~ da. ·'e wor: _, and. that. oom...
·p ensat.ion at t·h e rate oft · o day1s' pay be all_~wed for all ~o:Dday _wo :k ; ·t ha~ the low~
•eat salary paid a. regular lin,e man s.ball ha 16:, per mo:nrb, and _fol'· helpera '5ll ; that,
·t h . dot~ea of linemen ·b e confined tw,l ely to their leg.i tjmate work ..
SECTION' 1..
1
WHl!A TSTO~"'E, IN'ST'.RUMKNTS.
18 CT.ro~ 1 Tha·t be salaries of in~lass Wheats o.e-e ,operatolll be :mnerea&ed to
,175, p . r m.011.t h. and seoond-d ·• _, opera to~ to IOO ,•. r mon.t h,, and! t'hat th,e , ·r eoei.v e, ln
addition the l-5 per· ooot~ incrttasA, asked .fer .. one operaten~.
_
iS cnoN 2 . Tb· , th~ ff-Of' .bi hours o,f Wh,e au.tono ,o_
p em·t ers be th-a samo as, llot"88
1
m
opera.tors.
A
l1!;~~1t~t?ofl!rih e moment
M •ei
d,
EUG·E·. E"I J·
. .
.
o',c·o· .· -o·e•. 1.;!'lliU1,f9a•~
~-"' ._, ,
MOR.TIMER D.. SHA.W., ,B«ntarJt
J·0 BN c -·.·. __ 'P BELL,
, _
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'R OBE,R T EWING,
.HARRY . ORR.
ROGER J. MOLLE•· ,
.J OSEPH K . .i'0~
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••
· .RMUfi,t:Pe
• •
,
Boa.rd.
LNRAT'f:a.N HOl"EL,, CORNER BpoADWAY' AND C,x..,~AL 8TBBBTS,.
lwns Yori City_, Monday·, Jwly 16, 18&1..
As be ··t. explaio.i:og 'th.e posit·on of t .e com:p any wi.th..referencetothis
n1emorial, l ha · e bc:for,e me a copy orf' Gener.al Eckert's telegram to the
general sup~oteudeut . of tbe com1~Y, dated N:ew· · ork,,, July 17, the
sobstance of w'hi.ch is t'bat the executive oommittee of · be T.elegmpbers''
Brotbe·r :bood, which had c ·11:ed upon 'h'lm t.be day hefiore, bad beeff·asked
if t.bey repre: ,e·o·ted t'h e e·0111Iose-· o:f th,e •Company., and.,. ·opou repl,yin._g
affirmativ l,,f, tbe:y were asked to flornisb ,a list of iioob employ~s"' They
w,e re told that the company did ootknowthemeu~bersoitbe ,co■ mit'tee
personally, or ·w·h et·h er its mem.·bers had a-othor1t'y from. t~e ·. •.·. estern
niou employ-es to p·resent any· d,emand,, .and that we could .a ot d·eal.
with outside parti.. s..
This is a. ,copy ,o f General .E ekert's telegraim ..
1
General· S perintenbnt, Gll icag~ Ill~ ::
G.. W ..
~n~red_S•~r-i1Jte1uleJtt,..!failtr,~~l~, ~ Ten · ~ J
C. A~ TIN . R, Gmer::a l /l,r1,pm 111.,t~ndtn t, ./!t eu, . ·ork•..
A eO!ftmi ttee. of · ix pe-rsons. ,call@d npon m : y ternia . · and. prea.en_ted - .m emori l ad~mesed, t·o ·t h,e Westem Unio.b T .,,leg:ra,pb Company,, and e.i,z-ned b · themulvea ~ me~
'hers of' the e .e en1ivo, eo:m·m·i ttee of' the Bro herhood of Telegraphen of tbe Un.ited.
St t ·.· Bll d. ·Ca.nada.. Thi memoriall eal _a upon the company for ~~rtaiu ooncest1i0.n a
in regard. to llour _ and ~at :_ -o f p .·y, .snbsta;!ltia.Uy in accordaooo wi tll. the pmgr.mme
with . -bioh · -,ou ha,v e be~n1· amiHar since th ,~r March mee in -. in Ohi,e ago•.. Tb~ par...
ties, were asked if they riep,r esented em:p l0,yes ,o f tb.t · enimpany,, and opon re:plyini!,
a . r .m ·-. ;] v•e y. th y w ·r e req ues.ted to fn n1i sb a 'U . of . u.ch. emp'loyea.., Thi9 th~.Y saili
·they ·.. ei:e not ab e t:o do, st ti g t ~.a t 'it wool~ .r equire a long· tim - !~ ·1,-re·p ~m a H t,
.e nd they were h~ on ~ pense. Th · · ·w ere tol-d th~t t.he co,w pan y_did not :l:no,,-r the
··omm.i ttte, or whet b.1er. its :r utm em had authority from Western Utnon employ& to
present .:1ny d -.niau.Jl!t · ·d that w .·. eoulld ·11ot (1@-a l w·tb 011tside1pa:rtiea.
- .Asid,e fr-0m1the q Dle&t ioua.b le .m·a nn,t t of p, . sentiu, · so<t'h memorial, the .foUo·w ing rem 1:b upon imi terms . sent tor you• ,coneidem.Hoo a d en· ... . estii.ODB:
'One do mand :h1 that 'bo1 h e-exes ehaJ. .r-e a,iv·e ·qual pa; · for etf D&l work, '1 and
.a n~ther fur 15 per e_ Q't., inonmse on .~-~l e~lar1e& An operator D~W: .r eceiving a ~l;a;r.y
of es,} wonld by bis plan get ,&ma,U.· r lDerea. . tlUUi. one feci@iT.lDg 880 er $Si, tbo1
widening the, diJfe nces uow· ,e xistin,gm
Col. B. 0.
CLOWK ,·1
'~ ~BDH; .
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54
.UI;iiATl'ONS BETWEEN' LA.BOB A.ND CAPITAL.
An :ISO operator· at preeeot w,o~lr• ·n in·e ho'D~ d~
aU,y·,, twenty-sir days per montJi.
eiiRal t~ :_14 . 18 cente ))Qr b.onr.. ·u nder t.he scbed:ole in the memorial tbe sam . o,p era.
tor wonld neeive 19".! per DJoot · fo,r ejglit :houre daily.,,eq al to · ,hout 30 per eent., ·•·o...
ereaae, lD addition lio :the St nday allow·a ncejoat g·r ,aD1.e4 under the new-role~ Thi.al
ia ttm amalkst inereaae ~nded~ In cw of a Wheatstone operator now reoo;:::5
1,58 per mou.th. for twenty~11 wo:r-ku11gday:a, equal 'to 21. .. 36 ,fle'QIH per hour,, ·t he pre ·. · .. ''
ecbecdole would give b m 41.46 ,c ents per hnr, an increuo of'ever 94 per cent
Anotlter demand hi th t Unemen &haH, be aH.w@d two d_ y,f/ pa, for SoodQ work,
and. tba·t 165,elu,U bft the lo·w m :rat.e of pay,. regardle88 of' Ioca·t ian or im po•r t- · · ce, ef'
eer.v.ice1, and that tbe d11ties of ).i-i emen ~hall he co,nflnedl t·o , , le~ritimate 'R'lWk,"
Not.bing ia :m entioned. a·b ont t.h e •d uties ,o f ot.b~· claseesof .· mploy& 'bein,g••ft8.tT.ictNI to
thei,1 ·p art.i cular Une, of employme t, but if aue'h oonc.. ion were aUowed one clam
1
there ie no :r eason for w.itbboidio.g·itfrom othen, and, •h:,hneme:o ehouJ:d..have illfhel~
ers·' ' is not undcistood.. Agai.n, aou ble pay ftH~.S unday ·w ork would offer tem.p 'talioa
to the ~en to sl •tt'b t the,i r Saturday d 11t,y to create uecessi ty for· Sunda,.v .. ork .
Tho demand ·t hat ·1.t,tb. seu shall be paid the Uille for Hite, ae.rv1.ee looks to the,
mi viog et w,o man 1- bor from. the, ranks, as were, the eompany to eoneede it, i would
be to 1,0 1inteRSt to prefer men optratom. who, can be availed. or for a ~t.er variut7
efs.e"iee th D women. opera.ton 1t·b o may be eqoaUy capable far gent'"ml duty•.
D a pubU medl 1JDterview with , 1uewber o·[ ·t he oom,n ntu~, be et ated tba.t siuee the
organization ,o:i the Baytherb00<I petty" w·ire tmnld~s and mistakn in mf:aaages llave
praeticaJlw cea&ed, and that, 'b oslneu llJaa been greatJy facilitated, t.heae, ff8Ulta being
attri 'l!.,uted,idireet.J.v to the, [act of tbe o,rga- i~atioL, The teV'erea i1. the ~~ Ope·r aten dee Uni n,g ·t o joi.u the lea,g ue ha,v . ..n io:terft;:rrnd w itb in ·t beilr tlu ··ie ~ ,v·i rea bavei
be~o ·t bro,w o eut of working· eo,nd itio,n~ · o,d io, numerous C'aseB the oflhJia1 ho sinetia
th.e offl eers of t,be eoniran,y baa been. 1n oti l!atecl and 1ierio1ut'ly d.ebyed.
A atrike of A., D T . Jiuemen,. memhera ef ·t he Brutberhnod, took: place, in tllia e1t,
reeently,, ,sio.ee w·hich time t,ho strik.e:tH b.a:ve been eugagedl ie entt1og··w iree dai~y 11 one
man now bein.g under arrest odl indictment for eoeh t _wlesa ·w erk - With tht1u1&udl
ef abl~·bocUe(rm n out of ewploymen·t ,an over the country,. many of them ap,pi.)"ing
·t o 111, for· workt 1s uch a dem,a nd ie rem& ,·. able..
·
I~ is known ?-tat: a .Ja·rge, proporticm of O_lM:·m,ton, ha e, b9!n I~ ·to join the leap
·u nder· com pula100, ,amd otl!en uode:r the belief that, the e,:r. _..an1.Zat1,o n _w u , ~o~·n ti ve
for le:gi.t imaJe. and be._,oevoleot purposea, .m any ef wbom liave stat ·d they ill 1ep11..
di ·ttJ1any arbUza.ry aoti,o n •f t6e etlik~ ele·meut~
.
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'T &·o s. T CKERT,,
,Gm1wai Mawag.,:r~
On the 19th da,.. of J ·u ly a further ,oom~muni,cationi ·w as received from
Jo·b·o Caulp,b ell, of ,·h~ TeJegrapbers' Brotherhood, calling attention to
t:b e memorial ·w hich had been presented on the 16th, .and in terma
threaten~oit a 1& trike of our empl0:yes. Th.-is oom·mo·oieation ·was re-,
ceived ,at 10 o'cloojk oa the daite nam.ed, and two .h ollffl la.t ar 'the &ignal
was gi.ven, in ·res1ponse_·!O which~ eral _thou · od operAtors aud. liue,.
men employed by the We~tero Union_Oompauy., and a large, number
eD11ployed by· other· oo:mpanieJJ 7 left their 'J:>OSts of dnty~
~his] is a copy of Campbell's oomm,nnieation:
1
Ou 'Mon•da:Y, the 16th, a eommittee, o~ t e'l egraph ope.m to1'8. 1t1.hm1tted to 7our eon ...
aid ratio,n a petition . tnaated ·to ·t h _m for ·preset1tati:On to,yon by tbe Brat'b erhood. el'
T@'l.egrapbera.. Y~n e x p ~ y•o ur ,d o,u.b , ~ - to the ~~uthonty· o•f that comm'it!~ ·t o
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anea.k for t~e.,emp,loy.& o.f your .coml"ll:I :, _a~d bave .fa-d!f) to ll88~D~ to
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·tba,
~ ·t ·11m1L
Yoor.lettel" to R. C. ·C low,r y., genera, S,tlper,t:ute d~t, d1ttel08t'S to the pohbc die :fact
t•:a,t :yo,n ·were ioforme · of the n~1t11e of J4?ur 1emploJ!'8' grie~nees1bef~re they· w,n
Un&,r otd:rnary ctttlamstance.e _1fi ~eurd nq:o_i:r:e hut a, abert time to· arr1ya
at a con clu.ei.o o 88 to ·wha:~ ,ste:,s, yo _ would ·t a~e.. But k!low i t1g aa ·. _, _did, thait thia
,natter had been thomugldy ,d1seneaed_Ieng b: fore e, watti00. on you. . 1t wu not un...
reasonable, tee ·.1M,ct · ,n ea.-rJ;, : ~ply~ .I t is-d e to _the io.tefta~,s you, r•e present,. to, 81lr
orGan.i!ati,o nl ·. od p~r M~u1.&r1,: ·~? ~ tbe .,;,en,e ral. ·public,_ that this ~a·tJter ~ e.peedi T7
ad~u·1 ted, amo tbat the I' pon11b\Jl t.J or any ru·t nre act1ou ·ma,y re t _. here :at, prope~IJ'
belorug&. It, i · with an ram _t deaire for ·the, .h_
armouious. Rttlemnt of diOl,e uJtiel
, d ~ganl lor ~be aoci~l a1;1d .bU&ineu inter.es.~ . of' the~ people tha we · .-.· nd thi& ~ppeal
for the reoogn ~tton of the rights ,and retirees,of tb,e grro,auee.s.or y·o u employ~
Ver, rea.pecffDUy,,
JOHN O.AMPDE,LL
Dilfricl Mat.er fYorhlaa.
'To TBOJfil T.. ECK , ,
Genwal Man.ag• ,t1:11d Aeti119 Praridmtl of WesUT11 ,U11io.•, Teleg~pi Co-mpea, .
i,tesented-
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55
wa B
- E
-- TW·E•• L_,u~-·.
·11 Bo
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• DJ'
B,. EL'a.,Tl.-0.~·-1al10
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Q., Wh.ere w:tere the
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men employed who left th,e ir poats 't -,A., lo the
vario·n s, of&ees, o,f the compan,J , here and io, other cities o,f the la_n d, !In,
many ooses leavi.u,g .messages!partly 1sen.t or' reoonl.ed wit~h no informati.on,
by which the CO'm pany oou.ld d .e termine which ·p~ rticular messages .b ad
beeofully ,eo-mpleted before, the.·m.en left tbeir ,d,e,s t& :I n the case of the
lin.eme,n:,-aln1ost without ,e, ee,p ti.o n d·i a,g rama of' the oo, pa-uy',s wlres and
poles on the V'a rious streets,of the citi . s ,and along the ,111.r1ons,m . tea trav:..
by the ,compan;y''~ _lilnes were tak,en by ·t he men, t.ea\""ing the eo~-pauy i.n. t he. position of beh1g 'N q1Iired to ins·t ruot n-ew ha,n ds a ·d m.ake
ne tliag,ams, a1labor involving sev,eral days, or,Jin some, ,c ases; a week.
- the w ,e ·11 time,
iaexperi.e n.e ed linemen had to be emplo,· 00 to 'PMke
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necessary re,p a,n.
Q,. Abou.t , ho\v many lio.e men 'h ad strnck t:...........A. Probably
to ten hundred. in tbe ent",re coun~y.
abon't~ eight
-..
. ., ' :- ··• ~A -most,Q ~ A. bo
- =nt w b at proportion,
o f ' th-em ·_·e re 1n '"h
~-,e ctt1es
th.e enfue number of those w·ho etr;ock were employed in the v,ario·ulfl,
large t:ities.
_
Q. Relatively, h,o·w embarrassing to th-t!i com1p · oy was this 1stri~e of
the linemen 1 -T,o what ex.tent was, the cessation of the service of liue,lDen 1 A. The effect of' tlt.e lioem,ed-s strl, ~e was ,,ery small ■pon the,
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mpan,y's bl18iness, because we were,enabl.e d. to employ riggers, honsepaioters, roofers, tiuners, and ,o~ther men ~~om arious lines of bosin,esa,
some· , -~ t familiar with the. olimbiug of po'lea or, buildings, and we,
were tb., ·... en,a bled. to ·k eep our ·wo,r .k m.oviu1g with v,e ry lit,tle ,diffieo'lcy·,
especiall,y w·h en ta'keri in oo,--·nect,ion ..it · tbla1 fact, tbat,I fo:r se1·me time
,p rior to the s,t rike, i1u ooosequence. a we are inform,oo and believe, o_f'
tbe connection of the linemen with tbe TelegrJphers' B.rotherhood,, efforta were, made by the m,eo to restrict 'the amo,n ut of ·work to be done
by them during , 1 y partic-u lar t "me,I ,so, that it' was found t 1b at 't~be ~-- ·
paoy bad ,employed a · ·oside.r abl·_ larger fo:rce of men. to kee1, its lioea,
in. order than would haiVe b@e:a neee-&Bary bad each man done ,a fuir
share of work In New York. City· al.one,, for·iua'l:an,ce, fe rty~igh.t Hoemen ,o,f the Western Un.ion Oom1pauy· station,etl :i-n •·he city joined the
·atrikem, n.ot one of ·who,m ·has eiuce ~n .~.em,p loyetl in the eily, not
more t.han ouerhalf or two-thirds of as many men haviu,g 'been 'PUt OD
-d uty to do the w·o rk.,
Q. Is the, wor'k ,a s well ,don,e nowt-A. Wo 'b elieve it is ·be.t ter done..
Leaving out of the queatiou. th.e large a·w oun.t of tro ·ble ca'Used the
00m·p any by fhe cntti.u,g of i·ts. wires'io ·t he ,e ityot ·N ewYork and vicinity,,
which for several days caused a great loaa. to the. ·b usiness interests of
t:h e. oonntrJ,, the wires of the ,e ompauy during tile strike .·. •' d sin-ce, it.a
elose have worked .a s a rule better than before. • loch tbe aa -e elfect,,
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bn.t.in a _,d itrerent direction, was eaased by the operator& belongi·n g· to the
~ele,graphers' Brotherbood, many ,of wh.om, accontio to the best in•
. ormation we ka,re, obstructed our business, declined. in ·n umeroua inataneea,to ·w:o,r in ,con oeetton with a non-me·mher,of their league, or, if no,t
decl.ioing ·practicaUy,, ~yeotted him, 1
so, tha,t our boaioess ·i n. very_many
~stan~ waa_delayed, 'b adly done,, aud. iu some cases ·m utdai~" Since
$h,e strike ended,. oor bt1siuess bas ·raeached a.n d exceed,ed its former 'VOlbetter than ever hetbre, and with a mncb
I,
:::nea;i:a::i;':r':;~:,~~
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Q~ ~-_ou are referrin, ~ now to ,o pera'ton as well as liuem-e n:1-A~ Ye&
·Q. Oan yon state about what, the reduction. io the oom.ber of em. .
p,l oyes, operators, and Uneme:n is
ith which J'Oll uow perform the &a'm e
,o r ,a larger business t-~ I cannot deft it.elf. S't atistiea a.r e bei '.I pre-
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
56
RELATIO.~ S B,E·T WEE . . LAB,OB AND CAPITAL.
pared. in that oonnectioo, and I would hardly like to mak.e any s,tate-
m-e ut in advance of their •c o·m·p letion
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,Q, Very w,ell, 1,,roeeed.,- A,, Immediately 0 n,t ·e occasion of the atrike,
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on J 'u l,y 1'9, an
01
ued 'b y the company antbo,r iziog to the faitll-
d,eF wa.s i
~u1 ·en1:pJoy~s, both opemtors and linemen, e -tra pay for ,all work reu.
,dered,, their regola·r pay 'b eing contino.e d as a bonus~ "'This ,had tbe
,eftl ct- of' drawing i.nto our sen""iee from. othe-r lin,e s of'•·b usiness. a large
-puul°ber of ope.rators who b.ad for.rmerly been 1n the t,ele,g rapb business,.
but had left it to go i.o to busin.e ss for themisel .·,es, 0 r to act a · confidential c]erks, steno,gra.p'hers, or a,gents of co·m.pani:iis or :ftrms, many of
whom ha"re remained. p rman,ently ith us siuce the strike closed;; Th.e
num her· of these Toluntoors in the .a_g gregat,e .·as ·· ery large, and.a great
d.isappointm1en't to th.e I :a,d ~ n of tbe st.rikP, as w·ell ,·,s .a ,g rati(vi.n,g sur·p ri · -to the <.dficers of t'he oompa.uy . For ,. ve.r al days after tbe st,r ike
the business of tbe.,companJ b tween ·i ts p.1incipal offices ·was con "id,er•~
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ably d ··ln:yed. ou account of the short ·f oree on duty, but by ·,. or "'in,g ,' he
faithful meD 10 ~ome cases more tbau. double tune, payjng t'h·"m a·mply
and liberall:y, aritl furnishing, in many cases, meal1s, a d- lod,g.ing,s, w·e
wer,e enab... (l aft r ~ while to tiandle business as. betore ·tbe. S1trike. One
oftbe eft•o,r t~ of tb e 'leaden of the strike _.. s to "nduce railroad operators to join. their r ,a nks.
Q, P]ea e stat· right there the numben of those two ,classes of oper-•
ator . as ne ·. rly a: y,o u can ; thos . _p roper)y known as the ope:r ator.s of·
t,b,e compan:;"', and the raHroad operators,, and about ho-w tbe·. . · are dist"riboted th "Ooghou·. the country~-A. St .t.iBt.·,cs. are being prep•a red in
that connection.
Q.. Ca.n not yon ,giv•e, .a general n.otaon of it! I. want to get a·n id.e a of
it as, we go ··long,-A... I suppose that ·mor .·. than ·two-thirds of the
,operators of the Western Union Compa y to-day ar-e paid by railroad
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oon1panies wbollJ'..
Q.. In, · ·ha-t class, of offlees; what locations are their posts of dot~ ! -
Aji lu ·v ari,o us railroad tations througbont the ,e.o,n n.t r,!'".
Q. In thic ·- ls· settled. pl'-100 ., ,o r· ra;tber· in the roral d"istri.ets nnd
sparsE\ly eettl,e d portions. of t.be country I A. n both. Take t : e line·
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,o f the New York Oentr,aJ Itailroad, for in:s tance·. All. o:f the operators at
the stations,oo t'bat road between here and, Bn1falo a.re paid by the railroad company :; so the New York, Laike Hri.e and W · stern Roa,d ,, the
Delawa1·e; Laekawan.·n a ,and W te•r n, and many others,. ha\"e op .rators
at each of tbeir tl@·p ots,, or station h.ouses., wb.o reoeiv,e, transmit, and
de]1ver public or commercial tel.egrap'h bu~.iness1 the receipts of 'Which
accrue to the · ··•e .,tero. Union Company,. tb,e s Jarie .- of 'tbe, oJ•emtor ·,
being paid io almost e · ery case by the railroad companies, nnde-r onr
cootr.dO.ts · _itb th.o .e eumpani.e ,·.. The . ame is troe of 95 :p e,r cent.,, I
sbou·1d think, of all tbe railroads ,o f the .. ·u ited States..
Q. Do you have a·Jso 1~perator1s paid by the ,com·p a·n y· at the sam-e
r& tations in many i:n t : n,oos, o'I~ is tbe se ..ice exclusiv,e ly rend,e red. by·
th.e J&Uroad ,oom,1lainies ·w here railroad. operators ren.d.er any of' it '! ' A.•
In som.,e few cases ·t he Western . . ·n ion Co·m pany tim.p lo ._. . 1&epamte OJlerators, the terms of contract Ta,r yio,g i.u &Ct'.!oroance with the requirements. of the business ge·nerally.. At some stations where the tellegralph
bu ine .s lar,g ely ,_·xceed~ th: -· t of the railroad compan,y., the Western
Union Company e:mploJ1
S an. a.d ditiooaJ operator·.
Q,. Give some. in'. tanoos of , ,; tations or offices w'her~ that is the ca ··e,
whe,r-e the ·,es:tern Union bnsiiness largely exceed1s the railroad bu,si~
ness,,, ·if' au:y J· ,in.ts occur to you1-At T~~e. N~w~rk, ··. J ..1 depot of t-he
- Lni.1k·aw
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
Q. What cireume,tan.ces lead to tka't fact 1-A.. Tbe passag~ th.rou,gh
·t hat
office of ·a ve y large num'b er of cross con .OO't1n_g W ,es,t ero. Union
,.,
wires.
_ Q. .· ··ud _that is, ·t;be reason which leads, to this fact wh.~ ·v er it ext ,ts,
I suppose , -A.. Genemll:r .· peaking, y,es..
have ,a copy before .01e rece"iv·e d .rrom l~,e sident Sloan, of ·t he Delaw,a r , Laekawa , naand 'W estern
Railroad Co,ml,an . ·, of th ·: mem.oriid prese11ted to him o,n August 4 by
the Telegrap,h ers' Brotberhood, asking for a general increase of 1110 per
m,o utb on t · salaries of all the o ·rat,o_,.· of th .t railroad ,c o.m p n,y, and
that ·n o ,s alary hall be less thao 150 per m.o ntb This is i,t:
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JsROT
RHOOD OF TELEGBAPBERS OJI THE · .. ITED S-TATE8 AND C · NADA...
MAN.B A.T T
HOT
' ' OO·R
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·R .B ROAD
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A . Alfli~,
iC'AN.A L STREET,.
1felD Yori: CitJh ·. fl- ,t 4., leBL
Es.q.,
Prrs.iden i Dela-ware, Laclanr.a11na a ·d : ,. tern.Railroad':'
Th . 'tele,·. ·ph o,perarors in ou- enndoy ha,v · im·. tructed ue to ma -e the following·
reqo · s:
~
(l~-- Tha·t a -en'.e ral increase ofllO permont ' on -i sa1ari _ now p · ~d be gm '. ted ..
,c:i , That ne salary 11hall he leu than l50,per month..,
(I That the above ehangi; take e,fFeiet ba ,·,:nn:in Miio nday :n oo~ A · gnst i , ·i rSa
A. _
pro111p~ rep~ i desir-ea..
iS illll'EL S1'D A .,
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EUG·E, E J ., tvCOl."JlOR,
Clhi.irma,a ..
Q.. As far a yon. know, was th.at the fi·r1S,t d.e,man,d m ·,de by the, operators, in the service of railroad compauie for ,a n red.r&i.s of grievances
or increase of' pay ,,-A.. I do n.ot .kn.ow· definitel ~ ., It.is the only·for1naJ
co11y of a · , morisl I hav . .· eeo,, although at t~ -- time it as announced
in the n.ews,papers th . t demand, bad. beeo :made upon various, · esteru
1
railroads,, I beli,e\'"e , ncb d maod
ere ade about hi,_ tim.,e.
Q. W•,_. . th re any elai se,. up by tli.i committee,o,r by .anJ;· COllD't oit.
tee or individua]·· who claimed to r preseo.t t,be ope tor of your oom,P ~Y, t'1at tb. J ' ~1-~o,. to a ce·r tain. e~~nt, repre~ ted th.,~ operator:_s of
,r allr~d companies, or who, w:re paid by railroad compao.1e,s,'I -A. I do
no know that get the drlfit of yo'lu qoestion.
_Q., Was any· representation ~m ad.e fD, your oompany 'b .·.· -~ e committee
-·.~-~ d L.;'8
0- f ' the. Te]earaph~f:!I,
•, . e... . •· . """u.:,, _B...ot··be-·r·h-·ood
. .·. . ,, M'i:'I!
. •. .'a. ·.-mp'l..~11
. . ue: ' an
w ' ~ ]'a,i,.,.,..,.,
-' -~I'
that they also re_J_Jreseoted operator:; who were employed by the rtt,ilroaa.
CODll&n'i.es 'I - • The m.e morial p ,·. .· nted b.: Campbell's eommitt•·e on
the !9th of ,J lllr is. befo~, you, an~, I thin.'k ,,~ -. oot m-entioo. that facti
b"u t it was g,e nerJlly und , :r tood. th t, mao.,y · a·1lroad operators belougea
't o ·t he B,r otherbood, aud that demands upon the r.aUroa,d companies
w,oold be .mad .· froll;l thne to time as occasi,oo warranted, ·in the judgment
of the ,e x ··. .uti · . commii ttee of th,i~ Tel,e.g rapbers,, Brotherhood_,,tbr in.creas
' ,• ,·. pay,
·,· · . l. .~
.,e. •,creas
·. _., . h"oun,
" , . of
.· th···.·
· . . ~ns.
. ,. .. ..
.
.' ~ra1hn
u or,. a·.
. n.d·, o
. er:.con
Q. •ll- to ·t he 4th of .August, the d.ate of thi,s, m,e morial, do you know
whether a11y such demand , had been mad,e, upoo :r ailroad companies of
a like character to the, demands made. upoa your company 1- .A . I 0011,
state gen . mJlv, J'e s; such d emands were. m"OO.e npou the Cbicago and
.A lton Railroatl Company, upon the M.-1,:_souri Pacific Railway Ocmpany
and it controll:ed roads,, upon ,·he Che apeake and Ohio Railroad C'o m
.
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pany, an,d
upon
a namberof ,other , ·whose names I cannot now recalt,
Q~ And op to tha·t time do you kn-ow whet
·r , aD)""" such. concess.ions
as r-eques·ted were made, by th.e companies t'- A. In no case were an,y
eonee ,_,_1ons ·m ade.
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
58
BELATIO'lffl BBTWEEN 'L &ROB Alm CA.PITAL.
Q. Before or after that time ~A. Before or after, in oompllimee ·w itb
th,e ir demaiods..
_
·
·Q~ · .m ean befDre, the termi.n ation of the telegraphers~' strike, so
ealled.!-A. No conceuions tba·t I k.now of' have been.made in aay ,ease
to any ,o f them.
Q" Eith.er by railroad or other companies f-A. With th·e exee.ption of
on.e. telegrap'h company~
.·_ .~~- ·w hich was that-I-A. That' was, tl1.e A:merioan. Rap,id Treleg'.r apb
Oompany.
Q. Wit 'i tbe exceptio,n of tha·t oompan,y ,,then, you cao ma o ·t he state-
ment genera.I, as I understand you, tha·t no concessions were mae.lo. by
railroad or telegraph ,com1
pau'ies 'to the demanJs of the s,t rik.ers lwforo .
the tenoiuation of" the strike of your em:ployes.1-A. Yes, si·r ; ·1 bat 18
trn.e , and the re~nlt in the ease of the Am.e rican Rapid Oou1pau1·, I
think,.s·hows,tbe folly· or absnrdi·t y ,o f tbeir .h a1 ing made a:ny concessiona
at all.
Q~ · .· e·r e you des.i,g n·i ng tiO make 11om,e statement in regard to tbattA. No, sir.
Q<I! 1~he11, perhaps, yon may as well g'i.ve your· reasons for thi .opio100,
the facts that ioftue.uce you ·to, a fo~matiou oi tbi~ opi:uiou, oow 1-A.
Before a,n swerl.n g that, and as havin.g it in p,r oper order, I should 'l ike
·t 9 1,resent tbe, reply of President Sloan. _to the letter·,o,f ·the committee
before mentioned, ,d eelini'ng ·tbe.i r d.ema.n1ls~
Q. 'Y on ean do so.--A. ~hia ia,.a copy of' .Mr. S oau's reply:
DE.LAWARB11 LACKAWAKHA AND WKfl1!:RN' RA'ILROAn il!o,,.,
P ·BU1D&.:Wr1T'a OrnOE,11
~ - Yort CUD, .dll§a·1 t 6,, 1.883.
8nw. :· Yonr latmr ofth.e 4th instant was le.r t a:t. ~J ~·~' ·ce on the d ·,: , :ifi was written~
The, petemptoqr tooe of the ,,, request» ·geeme to imply consequencea.w·h ich I nooo,
f"ail to, undP111,t aod .~ d appreci •t e 11 .- , .k i ,gfor a p.1 empt r.epl,: ,·, and that tile ,C flangett pn►:~
may take effect a,t n.oon to-day...
_
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.
-. ~· am. not aware, that •etnr ~pen~-~ . m_~Ul&D·t iale~ wi·t h_t~eir 11aln:1iea • ho~~
laoo,r.. No demand,, so, far· as I .a m 10:fo:~ed., .b aa, ~ m,a.de for any change 111. ,e i her.
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or
~~i:~: ~1!:r~-il~~~~i,:::::~o: ~:::,~.~1:e!~;.la: ·~~~,~n:nre;:~~~-=
co.mpany, t eir pay :increa&ed,, and p;ro.m.otione .m ade, i.thont eoUc1tat ion. .A0 1 oper-ator bu become enr s1r1peTh1tende·n t Qi'.f our teleg,ac ay ·tem. In all brauehea of I be
,-rvice abi ity .a nd dev,o tion to the .inte re&ta of t ; · ·. oompany am reco~i1..ed. Tille
:m uter· mechanics, of ott1"sbops _lla,-e ri.11n1 fm . fOfl!.DleD a;nd · ·1 gi:nee_r& T.bo. general
enperi.ntenclent o,f the company has risen lro1' a brakeman.. Men look :forwant-,a pmmot.io:o, and a:r.e not dieappoin1t.ecL
.B :a vin.g fo·r more than tbirt,y yean been actively emp1oyed1 orld'Dg bani. 88 an e:E.ecutive et11cel", closely· w.at.clun·g all tbeae pat in.femets, ,a ympathbdng ,n the ·v aried
cba·o ga 411f labor·an(f eapital,, I fee.I the oommubi~:!ltioo,you ha ve sent, me a. mista~ on.
7e.11r part. I ·tllerefore promptly .r-ep,I J, and dool1ne to accede CO roar .r,equest atated
lD your I.o tter referred to .
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You.rs, &c .
SMIUEL SLOAN.
11.eaam. O'Coso.a, ·C.&.IIPBELL,, an~ Ona,
ea..u•.
[At tllis point ·t he e:xa~inatio~ o,f the witueae was 18 118pen~, to be
resumed at a conveo!en.t t1·me.subseque_ntly.J
i
The ,c omm:i ttee, took..a
78 C--11(6 LAWJ
re.ee&B, for
one. hour.
.
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TELRGBAPII OPERA.TOBS' 18 78,JKE-
~ -• :f ollowing· l•e tter, anbseqoently rece'i!ed, 'Y',as., ordered to be added
to the t.eatimons" rela,tive to the a-trike. o'f tbe telegraph operators::
January 10, 1884.
NEW' Y ,O RK,
)ly D.EAB ,S ENA.T OB : I · res,ponse to yuursrof 5th. IBStaot~
, I have had
the data y·o n asked for gotten up,.,. as nea-rly as we can .ea.t i.mate, to ,abow
tb,e damage ,do,n,e to this company by the strike of' its. operators last
nmmer.
· A singular and ratbe·r o.nexpeeted feature of tll,e ,e · bibi't,is, that tho
los_s was ,a -reater in increased exi:,enses than 111 reduced rev,enne.
The strike, eom.menee , by the operat.o-rs' ,q oittin,g· wo rk on the 19th of
Julr, aud te.r minated,by·t'b.ek application for re•e·mploymeot on t'he-18th
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of August. _
_ __
_
The loss of mven.ue in.,July,.as,00mpared with the co,r res,p onding month
la.sit year, was 1117 ~ , ,a nd in August ll58,.800 7 m.a'k iog· togetbt~r .an
aetoal falling otT of 12'76,300., By the same comparison the •expenses
were in -reaeetl l19f'l., 3~ _in .J .uly, s ·n d 1235,700 in u.gost, ~1.a.king aa
11 · ,,,lli'll!!.:li - . ... -·d
99 000 wh1'"'-- h added
.·.
.· ·d_·~1,.~1tore
-- ·· o_
·. ·f .• •Ai~
·-· ·t,_e
h · J088
· ,. o·f re·-.,.'oU
° o e,
·10......~a.se · . expen
, .. ; .'. C ,I ' .. - ·-·-.·. -to
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- tha'Q """'·
. 'O:9,Offlij,
9':n.r--~
.
m- ak'ae
.~ ~·
w ta'
, I- !I11 o;~s
: ~ ,.,
Tbere. would naturaJly hav·e bee,n ,some i'ocTe&Se ,o-f expendito:res with.
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the _g rowth of the company , which cannot w:e ll be estimated, and. ag:ai:ns·t
t'bia would naturally have i,;n. so,m e inereaee, of revenoes for 'th.e, aa.me
reason ,; so that the actual. loss ~~ ·p robably ,g rea·t er tha~ the figl!re&
given in revenues, an,d less than the ·6.,=uries given in ex.p enditures. But
·t he da·m age suffered. was aboo·t 11,00,000. Th I was partiall.y made up
in -the q~rter's return,;. by la:r ge·y· 'i.ncreaeed _dividends .aooroin,g to the
•· t e·1eph one aud_ otb,e r corporations.
..
eompan,Y. .fro DI Il■ ts s tock
. .s 1.n
It, may .ap·p ear 1Singular that havi.'o g con ·1idembly less than a full corps
of ,o perators in ,s ervice ·t he. e;x penses shon d. show soc'b considerable 10A .......... e-y·
I .1or
I.
.
cre'.we ; b_u t_. ·th·e ·men 1.n . erviee ~ere ,p al'" d·- h anuz,um:
,e xtra
.h·onrs
of seni~-.,. an,,d in most .la·r ge. offices, in onler to ge~ ·t he mos't 'po86ible
boors of 1erv1ee, we h.a d to provide oo, feed and lodge the moo i·n the
.b:u ii-di,- ogs.
. . .
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I beg s·o:n will. consider' that this .informati.on is :for, the ·WJe1of yoor
t .1or
I.
1-- ,_a
oomm1·'"tl,,n.n.
.~,an d·.. no~,
·ne_wepaper p11.b.Ji,c&11i4-J,,1on, exeept·,as 1•t- may 11a.....-·
. 10
.. Ieg1s
~· Ia ti'"',- ve p~eed.
ptre
; 1ng.s..
I am, respeotfully :a nd traly yo1111J,
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NEW
Y
_-··o~I,·
~
10·-· 1883--1· p. m
M ,.1.n.,, '""'J"~
~ " " - " ' - -__: ' - · . --'.
Vrnnli:,'•
BLilB's examination reau·med.
By Mr. CALL:
Question. Have yo · .anything· further to suggestf
...
ill
· · ,II
GBOBGE
1
80\
.
Q. ,Qo on with your own statement, 6.0DDectedly,•
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4.n8m;al!iV~~
i-aa_
-~ -·1g&11
BO·UJt·S OP LABOR,
A. I have divided. the eubject, eo ·tb.a~
t you may question me as I go·
a·to.o g. The last point I was ,o n was as to ·t he hours of labo,r .
Q.. I uodentand ,y our theory· to be t'h.a,t a red:oetion iu the hours of
.l abor by· any autho.r i·t y, no matter· whet'her State ,o r uat'",onal, would _b e
efficacious i.n bri.oging abou.t a :r esult tha·t would _·produce a general incr-ease iu. the comfort o.f the Jaboring cl · _·es. Now, I eho·a ld like to
1:.o ow ·i n detail ho · that would produce,that effect Vt7bat.is your idea!
So.:p,pose there ·was a Jaw to day by ·which every :m an should be,required
to ·w ork. oHly eight, six, or· four,, or any o,t her nu.mber of boon, bow
would yon expee.t rtbat to i.n8uenee the amoun.t ,of'eompensati.00 that be
·w ould receive for tho.se fou·r, six, or eigbt :h ours of labor·t-A. I hold
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that by the. ~edocti.on of the bour,s of labor a large percenitag-e of those
oat ,of e•pli03 men.t would obtain employm,e·n t, au,d in obtaining e·mp1oy .
ment they would secor·.· the means t~Ji pur,cba~e 'those things th.at we all
lik.e to erijuy more or J,ess, the necessa,r1es of life, and .-s much of t'b em_
.as we po _· _.i bJy· can... In -th t way a l rge percentage of those ou'\ of
em·p]o,:m,e nt would be bene1fited direotly,aud with the de_p artment th.a t,
l 1epeak of afterwards, to a 4Jerta-i n how many hours ·.- oold be requiood
to keep the peop1e constantly employed at sueh wages, as would tend to
jmpro -_ e their condition, it would- be, a matter to be .· ached very easily
as to the improveme11t of th.e ir eond1ti,ooi If the redaction of tbe h.onrs.
of labor to e.ight would not eon.tribute to givin.g all employ~ent that
are oml't ,of e . ployment, you would bav•e. to go ·•till lower.
Q.. And k,eep, on goin_g :Jow·e r·t -A . ' -. eep on going until y,on w,oul,d
:h ave the ooamonity emp,l oyed., These may soand .r ather li'k e queer
otioos.
Mr. CA.LL. We waut. to have all ideas on. the subject... That is the
only way we can airrive a't co:uclu•.ion,•
By· the CHAIRMAN:
Q. Tb.e prac ica·1 tlifficulty, as it 1se · m.s to m,e., is.t-hL :: E ·i ght ho,n r1s eon~
stltate, we. ,vill say~ a day's ·w ork ; a ·m.an t ,allo\\~ec.l to work eight hours ;
but bow i,s Jt to •be ar.r anged that when be st· ps out th nnem1Jloyed
portion are to st ·•p, 1.0 for that particnlH.r· day;, Tate f'aetorJ~ work. It
might not be so difficult to take n'oi·k on bnil:d.io,gs... i 1ake your own
tr.,Mle _; t·'.ke empl,oymeD't on. a tarm, and so on t'- A.. be onl -· ,s ee~iog
obstacle there ·w ould be those e11gaged in. the tran._1,ortation bnsiness
and in. a.grienlture~ O,f cor. rse bo,t b tl10 . ::: clas es could be · aken care
,or. That i _· a matter of d•e t iii The t;?1erieral .P ri.neiple of m.lucin.g tbe
hoo·r .: of :labor· is. what I am getting a.t. The - iJroad ,emp,lo:ye is e.nga.ged in a concern tha·t mu.st run day anll aii,:tbt..
Dctead of oo .pell.i ug
am.an t-0 w,ork ten, tweI,. ·e, foartee1 , 01 si · -teen hours,~ is th. ·· ea· : iu
fbis ci'ty 'ill many instnnees., if tbe da.y fixed ·were eight bo·o rs there
would be a chane.e for ,100 _her 1nan to com -~in; tw·o men would be used
w·J1ere. one: man is used no,v, ·, v·here s,i xteen .hour -. i- t.ba rul~.
·Q Tliere wo11d be~- mucl. greater production.1 -A. '11his extra man
who would ha;,.@em1~loym,en wotdfl receive. · age~, and con '__ :qn . n ly·
be ena'b l -d to purchase prod:o. tions, and tl1at won.Id be moueJ gi _- .. n
,eiruu.lation; a.nd as the number n1cr,ea ·ed. alt _ha·t cla"· s who are out of
employmei- t wou]d ~e~ur,e eo1plo ment tb~ougli tb - Feductioo of the
hours. of abor; -~t would te1 d to inerea - ed produc~ion - ~ t~.a t. extent.
It is as impl,e as A BC.. lVb@:o a per-.:on is ~ett.ing (13 a day he •Cao
buy more than wheu he is get.tin, - two, and he buys ith that, e .tradollar ar icles, 'that he could not ·p orcbas·e ·w h.e.n..he . as recei.vin.g only
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BELATI,ON1S BETWEEN LABO.B AND C1AP1T.A L,,
61
t:l,l.a nd those articles are p1
r oduets that could. n,o t find a market u.o f· h.e
was able by ~is increased wage . to pureba . e them. Coosequentl,y it.
stimnJates industry·, a,n d gi u increa ·ed e · ployment, and cironlates
money.
B V . I r o· jl1' .,,
Q. w ·oo11t you be, .iJlin.g to ·ru_t tbe support of your t ·: mily to that
theoiy th · t w . e·m a man 'M g , ti g '_ 3 a d,a y, instead of t2 before,,
be w·. nld have a dollar to · pare,ftom hi . . e ·.p~nses -A. . do not u·nderstand you. ,e xa ·tly,,
Q. You s .J that if a man j.~ ettiu. ~ 13 a ,d ay ·w,here h · waa o,nly
ge.tti' ,g e,,2 before,, by virt-u e of' that 'fact h.e ha a. dollar more to spend.
than he had be .01e i , buyin.g what, he wants to bu · 1-A. \ "es..
Q:. _o , sop1JO . , there were enacted som,e leg·siatioo, either State or
F , d ral, to da:y tba~ ~very· uuw should gie.t 13 ior' two,, foot', six,,or eight
llours' labor .'- A. I do 11ot think snob. 1,egi ·latio· · would be practicabla
,Q. · d.o not knOi'W' bat it would, either, bn.t does, not th . t illus,t rate
th .· idea t-.A. · e e .p ect the · ·ages question to re,g oJate it&elf' by the
.,
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rednction of ·t be hour, , of labor..
Q. We 'Want 'to know exactly ·why ·you. thiok· o. We ~ant, ·to 'h ear
the details of i -. -A.. Because it ta es so many men out of competition
wit , he men who are at work. t 'i s 1i , e an articl · on 11 be m ·- ·k et i.n
cpm'{)8tition with. some ,bio.g else of the. same 'k ind; when 't b,e.re, is too
m . c·- of it, ii fall in. prlce·,. It i·s tbe iS me with labor, and if't.'he article
is on the market _ loog while. i.t depreciates. som,etimes belnw its actual
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cos,t.
Q T.hat ~ "hat I want to ftud out exactly, whet'ber it JS , rne i' yonr
idea, absolat-ely troe, that because ·-bere is ooo much of a, thing on the
:m11rk,e t,, th -refore alone it 'i s ,go1 g to fall 10. pri.oo, 1
S uppo~ here is n.o t
any more•of it going to be prodneed, what t-ben I' n other words, do yO'u
Dot have to co.n sider not onl .· t·he qu . ~. tity of a thing the:r e is on h, n.d,
but the fin tore means and. probabilities of produutioo ·.-A. That som,etimes ,.. ., taken into eonsidemtion.
Q~ Fo,r inEdance, if tbeN, was a vast snrples,,q,o~an.t ity of wheat upon.
the .m arket 'to-day~.and it ~ e an ,a s~rtained tact 't ha1 11.0 ·m ont wbeat
. oold be 'pNNl.o.eed u\e xt year do ,y,oa think the presen·t urplua p,rodoe..
tion, alone w·o uld create .- difference in the price of tile commodity t~ A.
Yes; but you_do ., o,t m.a k,e any distinction ·oo w·e en the raw ma;terial
.aod · 1uman labor..
Q. What 1s the·distinction t' I thoogbt u · ·ere, treati■ig it aa a •com..
m,odity·in 't h,e market f-A. I was oom,p aring the effect on ,an ,article thaG
is, on the, market, · d there is a! lar:ge ,quaot~tJ' of 1t manufactured, wbi.e h
som,e.times, by reason of tbem bemg no demand for, it falls in price and
aometi .· es below· cost. Bot I did not cite that 'illustration for· the pnr..
pose,of eon■ec.ting it,with th.e effotts of tbe ..workin.gmen.to, ,p rotect their
interea;t an,d to d estro.. · the com.petition as mo,e h as. posei'ble by tlle re1
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d.n ction of the b.oura of labor.
I tilaim that ·b y reducing tb.e, hours oil'
bor, yon 'take 0 ut of competition so ·much labor tha.t i _ eompeting with
that,already employed,and m ma'k ing that, 1
B'tateme,n.t l ,d,e ein,, to be, dis. ~n,c t]y an.d ,e rstood that I do not place labor on t-he eam,e level as an.
article manufactured. and put u,pon the -marke ; or, in ,0th.er 'WOrd.s,
do not•put labor on the sam,e Je·v et as raw material.
Q,. You. need :ha\l 'e no "'eositiveness about t'hat. There is no1>ody m
the world 'Wllo ·11aa a.·o y· sense .a t all -·ho does, not know· that a man as a,
man has, faenlties and properti.e s t.hat, a brick or a piece oif ooittoa :~ as
not got. or oourse ,e,v ecybody that is not an idiol kno·ws that. The,
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162
RELATIONS, BETWEEN LAB,OR A D CAPITAL..
labo,r er i,8, a mao, a human,·being, and, under oar,ay,stem of govero:men·t ,
h.ati a ri.gbt to !111 legi la.t ioo tbait■ ma:y ben,e fi;t him ; but in oon,~1dering
the g,oe·a tion of oor1omie law w·biclt, )>0o. propose to ,consid.e r here. of
cou se ·t be qoestioo a.rises, whether. or O't a, s11perabnollance ,o f labor
in o,ne or another direetioo ,eao be remedied by this, that, ,o_ tbe other
speci 6,c m,eaa . • n all aspects, of tb is q uesti.on., ·-ve,r:y rea _oniu,g mau
m:nijt assu1ne tba1t a labo:r er, is not a 'bric'k, ora stooe, or a p,iece o,f wood,
'b ut a bu au bei.ng wi.th facolti,e s to be :imp110 ed a·nd edoeated,, an ,· enj,05 t11,en ts t,o be pro,.v ided for. NO\\"', 1the q u.estion i·~, how are 'We g;o ing,
to do that" I tuulentaud. you to say that yon p ropose to do it by gi,iog
emplo•)""'men·t to ever,. man in the world,, or every man in .. 'O U.'r own eountry1 or in aoy community. N,o.·. , S'D.ppose ynor .ideas. a~ ear.ried, out and
w·e bav,e pro,·i,detl by a g~ eral .l aw, a chan,g e of _the goverom,e nt, that
11,obody shall ·work. m.o re ·t h,aa t ·- o, four,, si_·, or eight hours a da:\! or any
ot.laer number 3·ou _-. fit to provid.e ; we have a Ja·w to tl1at etlect that
tb~re shall be on·ly that nn1cb work doue.. I ask )"OU to say ho, .· th.at
b,.w is going to regulate the price of that labor,, the a1Doo·n t tha't am.a u
■hall get for t ·w·,o, tour, or six 'h ours' . ork t-A. T.h at is 'Dot the point
·!n t'l1i~ proposition. We expoot that th.e queation. of wages will regu1
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:m Hth labor out of com1,letition. \Ve find .e.mploy.ment tor it b . taking
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that number; of .b onis oo't oC those .a l~ea,ly emp'loyed.
Q,. Do yoo Ollders,ta11d itto be a rol. of eoonomJ· t.ba ·. th,e priee of a
mau':s labor increases, just ·i n pro1,o tion to the quantJ, f of addition.a l
Jabo:r )~Ou give 'f -,A. Some·w·b ~ t.
Q Th~,se are mere qu .· sti.ous for coos1deratioo.. We all wan, some
pr'J" ctical way of iwproviDg the qnaut.ity of the comforts of this life th.a t
e.,,.e1 :,· laboriug 'm,an ~hall Ref" 'We want him, to hav,e 'b etter booJies,1better clottmes for hfm.~e]f and fami1x, more healtb.y ' "" ditions ot· life·, better anti 1norie abundant food, and to get a_
U these with just as little work
as JMlMi hie. 'l'hat I nuders.t~btl to be tbA object t·ha:t all people of be1
netieeuce and with l),bila11thropic ide,as hav,e in view·. .Now, you pro:PoSe
to i1cl1ieve that re, ol 't 'b y prov.id·i ng that evecy m.a.1 , sh.all work onl3, ,s ix
oi eight or SG•me other 1111.mber or· ·hours per1tay. We hav,e got that law
in ,loice,, we wiH e.uppose, anti all the people of' the Uuited State.& are
aultiect to it. No w, W'h o, is to dec,i de how mu·ch of that labor aha.Ube la
ag1;ic:ultnr,e, bow :mncb in ootton m,an1uf&eturee, bow •ocb in ·ron m1annfnctor¥s, how we shaH.distribute it t A. Every :m an.and w,oman shall
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be.hi11 or her ·tree agent.
Q Sn111JOs1og it t,o be so th.a t every m.an. and woman shall be a fre.e
aae·u·t and, no ·man Mhall w·,o rk more than six o,r ,e ight boon a day, and
e,~er,· t.r,ule shall be opeo to eve·r y man wllo wa;ots to go ruto it~ bow are
JOH goh1g to tind ont that ti.ix bour•l or two boors' work·, or four 'b oors'
wo1·k, wUI be ,sutli:cient to fill the, needs a-n d ,g i,v,e emp1o,)·meot to ei,ery
mau \vl10 has. not f(Ot i.t in these tlillerent trade~ t-.A. BJ ach a departDJtt11t of intlustrJ, as I shall md·i ca,t e belor,e I get through, whose special
b n .1. bes . 1~ t sha 11, be•
Qi J UlHler~tand that yoor ide,a is to give to, some authority 1&ome•
wl1 . re, e"tber a hnreau or an i.ndividoal, 0 r a collection of i~
udi'f'idua'IB,,
t11,e uutbo, .ity to, say bow many· m,e n s.b.all wor · in thia, trad,e, bow :many
i'u tl1e othtr , how 01any ,cottoo ,manufa,c. urerd there, .&ball be, bow many
s1, ~ 11111e1· .I-A.. Oh,, no
Q~ I w·onl<l Ii,, e to :know how ,you are going to,regulate that qoesti,on.
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d our, how·shall ·• -,e apporr ion_the,I , ~r
aad distribute i'tf,......._A. We shall. .i:pect that 'that will regulate,1bself
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63
RELATIONS BETWEEN. LABOB, AND CAPIT. · - L.
largely. l'f 't his, ,depmtmeo.t J,e ame by the eellec'tion of facts and 81:atiHt 11,11, t·b orou,g h and 0<l'm1plete,. no one-,sid.,ed _story,., bot a co plete inv~ a,, 1gatiQ,n,. that1the redoetion of the boun,of ·1a·b or to eight is not suf..
6.c i,~·11t to ktwip the. people 01:· this. •Country e·mp,loyed,, it shallreoommeod
tllat 1he3~'be further ·n !doced.
,Q~ ~ow, Jet us exa·mioe that a.nd see h.o w tha,t ·will. 00:m e out.. A·n o·l d
pbi!loso1•h~r said t:hilt error alwa~·s lnrked in general ,asRertiona,. but if'
3·,oH \1ra.ot to find ou't1the trutb oif a. thing you mns·t , come down to par·ti,e11ln1'"8.. Now, talke. the , ·-1anufacto. e of goods on·t of eotton.. Suppose
tbHt•1here. a,r e in t,llat puli•·uit 1,0 0,000 .a n•,_aos-for tba,t will d,o as well
•~ uu,~other D'Umber--and a buriean of industry· ascertains th.at :i n order·
io ,:11"e· them work it ·wiH be Deee&.'ffl;ry to reduce the boors of Jabor
dow·u to two orfourai:dece, dOiJt lU. thiok t-b at those two or four- boors ea.eh
1\:u1:1ltl gi\"e a man exactly the same amount, of oom·p eosa,t ion in 1·espect,
lo ut·ber ind.08-t ries as if he wo r-ked aix or eigb.t f-A. If' tll:ey afre all
·f hll~,. . e1oplo3·00, there is no reaso• · by 't h~y should not be comforta.bJ.e.•
Thal is ·th~ ,poi · t.
Q~ Here, is a man tbat :ia engaged 1n the bard . are i · dustry, and there.
are jn~t enou,gb .'meb at · ork to ha·, e em.ployment-, tbe bureau of ind.ustry
,leuidea, at ,e ight bolll"S of lal,or per da) ~ _You are going · o have some·
i11st1tutiou by which ,· 0U will ·. ay th.at the man w·bo work.s onI.r two
h,oun1, a d&l" in a pursuit 'Where, there are. 100,UUO me·o1 en.g aged shall.
g~t 1~~•Ji.'" e.'ly ·t he sao1-e pay, or the Mame a1noDD1t. of goods, clothes, &c..?
tin, maH who · .· orks. eight, hours iu the ba1rd.warc bus:i'uess. Huw
W'o ohl he lik.e 'tbatt .A . \Ve w,o uld ,o .ot d,o at1ything lik,e that..
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Q Dow would )"Oil regulate it II-A, We. would say e, er)·bod,y sh,oukl
w.01·k a. ,c ertain uumber of hours" We woul1l not single on.t any pa1 ti,ou ~
Jar t 1,1 de·.
Qt Bnt I understa.n d you to say tbat the h,nreau ofm,tustrJ", when it
ftu'1ud there were more men in. ,o ne trade tliao eig'b·t bours a. day wou.ld
g1v0. ('!H1J1loywe.nt to, H1us·t reduce the non1b-tr of hou·r s down to si.x if
J,1ee.""9.aJ·)· ·f -.A. .No, ·rr ; if those people could not ftud em,p•l ~ymiPnt ·i n
tllt-ir 'tmde., l(U, them, try· their bancl at, sometbin,1 · eme. We ·want to
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111, ,ttta1·,·e tbti, iudividn,a l ri1ght .as. maob. as ·p ossible. 'T hat is tbe l\"3Y I
look ut, it .
Q~. You w·ou]tl gi\""e 't hat,bureau then the authority to,,say, ''Youha,..e
too :u18H)? me111u. the. eotton. tratle; ·n uw w,e w1·n put so nu1oy 1no•re in
the irun tra.de1"-:A . Oh, no;. n.,ofbiug of' the ldnd,
Qi I am. ,011ly asking how wo,o d i·ou regula·t ,e that matterl:- A.~ If
tt1it1 tle1H1rtment of indus,t ry· found after a f~w years that tber,e was a
cert;, iu clit.eonten·t and misery, and o'lher difficulty., connec1ted with bad
t1.01eM, that, so many people were out of emplo:. meut, aod 1·he3'· l1ad. oon
ti1111ed ont of em,ploym,e·n t for a reasonKble length or· ·time", tbe,n 'th.ere
,1--buuld ·1,e 1
eome rei01edy applied to gi,•,e ,em,p l.u y.m ent to ·1·b at element
out .of eu,,p loyment. I do not mean that. because. we ,s honl,l have tl11l'l
11,n~s fur· &, · 0i1 six weeks, ,a nd bJr Ue(?essit.y a large numl,e·r of people
w1 ,:re tbrow·u out of em1),lo37meut, ·the departmen·t •houl,d take as .mu.ch
J1•1tioe of' that .a s :i f tb .-y fon nd that j·o r thr,e e or fbor years UH!n w~re.
ou.l, ur e·m11loym,e nt,, a,large nun ber ,o f tbe:m., and 't hat Wiage.s were so
Juw tba · they oould not buy all tbe-necessaries of bfe aud Hve aa tbey
on;Jbt to li.\",e, then I say t:h,i : bureau shonld ;Btep in aud reoo111m,eod
th at. 1[1 e boors be fu·r tb~r reduced.
Q. WouJd you. no,t bare any aJ>.'p re,· ·ensi,,on that m,en en,gaged iP the
eotton ·w,annfootnre that, migh·t be doing w,e ll, and where there ·w,t're
'llt,t 1uore mn1,l0Ji~e«1 thau were ueecled, and who were gettio_g rie'h at t'he
IJutiine .·s,. would. use some 'infl.uence with that bureau to make, it, dis1
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RILATI,o · s B,E 'fWEEN LABOR AND C'A PlT:AL~
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criminate, a,g ainst other ·•n,rdus.tries and in fav,or·of their own •f:_,A. We,
shoold. bav;e. to ·ta·k,e a little cbauce 011 that., but if we ever su.ooeed in
accomplishing this, idea, tbere will be such. a, h·i gb _standard of patriot.
ism in tbe com.maoi.·r that i·t ·will be im.po~sible for any clerk., or· a·o.y
1 " ·to
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whie'b. tb.e ·p eople wish.
Q,. Does it not occur to· ,y on tllat, tha·t kind of .a otoera;tic power in any
bureau, composed. either of one man or man.· · men, is precisely the form
of .a.de9:potic governmeot, such_as ·h~s exis~ _for ·t he last tw~ thoo~.
yeaiiS in. man,y instances 1---A. Not if c.r eated by 'the will of tbe people..
· Q .. The ·w ill of ·t he. people created Napoleon -the Fin~,. you koo,w ,_
A. ;,_ otund.e o ·r system ofgovernm,e nt.
Qj. He took a vote of .all the people and ·they ,e lected h·im:, and Na;po ..
Jeon the Third professed to do the. ,s ame tbing.-Ali I ta·k e exception to,
tha·t" I do not think. ,o ar ·p eople ·w ould e·v er consent to t·bat. As l said
previousl,y , if ·we got to tba;t_~int ·w·b e~. we could. kave legitilation ot
this, t·nd ca .· •·ed.out s.uccessfully, I wou1d OO·D Stder the standard of ·patriotism so high in the comm·unity that it would be impoulblle for any
boanl to be porch.a sed..
Qj!, 1 uuderrs.tand yon would be willio,g to trust yoW'· wife a_nd your
ebildr,e n .a nd your·:m .· an . . of support, to the ,decision of a national b~u
o·v er a VSB.,t eoontry of 1'00,000,000' people, saymg how many men should
wo -k. in one trade, and how many in an.0th.e r, and y,~• ·woo.Jd have perfect ,co:ofld,enee in its JD .·t ,an.d . bene6~ot discharge of·that duty t-A. I
do not concede anything or tbe. kind. You are. trying to draw me ioto
some.thing th·. t I do not understand.
Q.~ No; I only waot to get_yO'ur idea.-A,, I say the.·p eople ,s hould be.
free agenta aa ·m uch as pnssible.
Qi" How· much do you say is possible t- · .· .,. This bnrea·u wouild be
overstepping its dnti.es, if it should. dictate to, m,e -or my· family wha·t .I
eb.oo~ _do; · hat is,. single m.e out. _ _
Q. No; n,o·t single you ont.-A4' That is tbe _w ·,y you pnt ·i t.
Q. No ; I . ill snp,p ose tha,t this bore-au would say : "·In the ,eottQn
manufacto.re there are 100,,000 employes; 00,000 mw;t get ,out, ,an.d yoa
draw lots, only 00,(N)O can. 'be :· upporited, working at six, e1,gh.t, or t1wo
hours a day , "- A. That is not the point~
Q. I ,s,bould like to know wba,t is ·t he point t-A. ha. e expla·i ned ii
m,o re than. on,ce. 'Ibis bureau, after i.t discovers that men are oat o..f
emplo1yn1,e nt for a Io·o g while, · u.d discovers tbat1'it :is n,e cessary to~
omm,e d a further reduction of the hours of labor, shon1d ·d o so...and it
should be done. It should not a1Ject any partieular b:ade,Iand if there
are more ootton"'lsp,inners,, or more men in tbe hardware lille. than those
particnlar in dustries. •c an take. care of, it is ,e ·pected th_·t those people
will ba,ve good se.n se enough ·to g,o ·i nto so.me ,o ther· ·bas1nees.
Q. It is ~to be a v:olontary action. on their part whene·ver the bureau.
recommends 'that so m.an,y shall get out T---A. They _do o.ot say "get
on~," bot they say '' ge·t in,,"' by reducing the hours ~1·1a~~
Q, B·u t suppose the bonl'8 of Jabor are reduced,. they will not, ~ect
to ,a.uy •e xtent toe demand for so . ·uch ,cotton goods .• ·t here may· be a
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emp,l oyment) ·h ave they not an opportun1~y to ·b uy more 1·
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Q. Suppose it i·ocreases, them, it ·will not dimiDis,h tb.e demand 'l '- A.
It will increase the d,emaod"'
Q,, _Suppose it in.c reases. the de · and, still it dCJeB D~·t necessarily fol.l•ow that there mig:b t be, too mu.c h of eo'tton good,B or iron goods or aQJ
other·sort. of goods made for· the present. · ou think,[then,. that simple
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RELiTIOkS BETWEEN LABOR. · ID CAP'l 'rAL.
thing would meas,nr.e the Q.nantf ;y of prod ction ·t hat would l>e n,ee<led
in. any km·d of manufacture ·. ·- A. To a large extent.
By ·the ·OHAJBMA'.N:
Q.. y ·ou. th.i nk that their ear- in.g s would be equivalent to what tbey
"\l"ould oonsu e.; t.'k ey w·oold make .a market ~or at Jeas,t as large an
a. · · ouut. o·- good.s s.s. the,i r wa.ges . . ,oold. re,p resell't ! A. The m,ore em•Jt.loymeot the ·ore opport1J uit,y to pu-re'base the goods that are mann•f;1ct u reil.
Q. lf the ·peo1,1e that are unemploJed eam $ 00, they take tha t 8,100
to api1l.J to thei necessities or to conisume .somet.hiug 1·- A., Certainly.
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may be very dull .. oout it., but. I am trying to ge·t at, your- i.d,ea"
S p·potSe l 011 h:ad. your la . passed to-da;y, and ev,e·r y m,a u aud ev·ery
won11au io the United. S.t ates was allowed to work on'ly ··igh't hours o.r
six hours, wbatev'ftr the num.b er .m ight be, would it follow from that
ti.le that the q,o ant,i~y of·,ootton ma·nufuetures. made. to-d ·· io. ·t.his countr.?· uuld ·be dooreased ·t -A. It would iuer-ease it.
Q.. How ,vould it increase it !-A. By giving so mauy ·mo.re me·n em11.J-01· · eu t.
Q. Ho-w would i.t be to~day I It migbt in. th.e future. Of oour e tb.0
p1-e~eut 1sorp:p,Jy would be the sa·me !- A .. As :, oon. as these men would
get mou~.·y and .pt"Dd 1t,, they would have the goods.
·
· Q. .1ow,, w,e ·w ill sup.po .e that 3700.r bureau of indu··.·. try says ·" the.re
are 100,000 men engag·ed in the co ton manufact-ore; they were in. it at
tbe 1in11:e thi11 law passed.:;. we produ.ce of eotton goods, a Vet") ·oonside.mble swplos more than th.e ma1·ketrequires." Your men ha:v enot ,g ot
tlie cotton goods yet,, ·b ut no ·. to bel(in, tb.t-·r e baviu,: been a reduction.
to •e ight hours' labor your bureau saysl "th . 1ne11 who•are now in .b: · .· ·
m.auufactories are suffieierit top od.u,ce a·Mthat i,s. needed. and the quan..
t'i'ty has n.o t decreased so sens.ibly a ., to affect the market; so you have
• g,ot to reduce the hours o,f labor 1sti11 ·n1ore.; there ·is too much .Pl~oduced.;
more than we w ".nt." Then you most •d o that i o ,d :r to g:i,Te employ~.
ment to tbe_::m other men w·ho are out of' en1plo~ .ment · -A. ,,,·e cannot
p·roclnce too :much ·wbeu e.v·ei.ybody 18 ·no't•employed.•
Q.. All are not emploJ,-ed yet. There i _ a 11e:1.i od u,,.·h en th.ey have gnt
to be emp,l oyed. -· ma·n does not booo•e a. cotton~sp,i'nne · r.i.ght awa.y ;
he b· · got to be p·r-epored for- it. Do Inotuudera.taod ,3!ou to i:oeao hat
your bureau of indos·; y s. all say to• · eae peo1,Je,. '' the,r e 1s too much
oo·t ton goocls .P:rod ue.e,I ; these ot he,r 1n:e n 'h a ,9.,e not 1.ea,m e . . their trade
yet ';, )"uu must ma.ke 1·oom for them.; yon. 1n.os·t ·Dot w·or·k ·b ut foor hours
a daJ ..'' Is :n ot that so .-A. . ou mean. to single. that trade. on ,
Q.. No,, I mean. it o,f any trade.-A . I do 11ot.propo&e t hat .a ny 011e
tra_do .~hal~ be siu.g led ont, ba·t it shall be made. ge~eral ;. if there is. a
reduction 1t shall 'be g . oeral.
B ,y the OHA.IRMA.N:
Q~ The day'·· woFJ~ n.ow is ten ·h ours !-A. Pret~y genera]ly..
Q. I am assum.ing that be c]a)"' work i , ten. hours. You. would.
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shorten those hours to eight,, an~ aUow 011e
1n.i1n
to work eight bours
pe·r d.cty.. Som.e body el88 co.m.es 10 and wurks the other two f-. . .. \Ve
won ld. not have ·that~
Q. How· woul.d you arrange that 1-.··.ea Eight 'b our,s 1Sboul,d be fhe
ll as's "'- ork.
Q.. T.·'he other· man would... ork eight ho·n rs, a.lso ' '- A . Yeis, sir.
· mpl0•'1:"ed
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REL!Troi:·· s HETWEEH LASOR !ND ,OAJl'IT:AL.
1Stead of ten, a now ,-A. •·-o; . ight hour,·. s:bou1<1 be.ada.: · . ·. ork with
the ,exception of bu inesses tbai·t am eixtra pusbed in busy ea,son - or
trans·p o1·tati,on, or t11,··... · mig·h t b ; · an exce·p,tio n ·a,d e ,of agr1culrore 1.n
,certaiu season,s of the year.. The)"con Id work a l1tt1·e Jon.~er, or',average
their ·w ork tb -y .··..r ' through ·-.. icrrb• ours. I tl 0 no·_ think they work
more than ·i,g1it .ou~-· tbe year through,,, consitlerin the. .amouut of
machinery intro<lnced.
_
,Q~ Do 3~0 1n ·a n that on on.It\ hav · tbe machiu ry i dle all b,u t eight
hours of each d av _ In " bat: ·wa, do :\70D iv,e eH11plor-meo-t,to more I:"'iiiar
""' .. ...
son if eac'b .ma11 i.. - to wo, 'k ei_
gl1t hour , or \\~ould you c bauge that I-A . By tbe eigb.t~ho11r -__yst -n1, b,. fixing t;b · limit. a.t eigb·t hours, ,20 per
nt.; or cert ain'15 lo per cent. , mor-e men •. -•oold be p-n t to work~
Q. They ,vould be. at w,0rk ,durin_
g tho.;;e · :rne ei_g ht ·ho- rs - A .. Tiea..
Q. The , aohinery, then, would l'UU OHIY eig .t hours of tbe twenty;.
four .- A. i'g h · boors,, it run 't,eu now,, exeep t in. e ee·'pt1-onall - busy
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s ,a ,o,ns. l · e;·b av·e 1seasons her-e when for four or,five mo.n·t bis iu the) •_r
the.re is, har,d ly anything doin _,., while in the months of September and
O .tober an,l a pa::rt,of Augo .'t 't b.·_ y ha -e to work som,etim. s to lOor 11
o'clock -t. night ..
Q. If tbe 1naobiniery is ,·. o·r ked to its capaei :y,, already wnrtiog ten
houm, ho'\V' can ) ·011 wo,r k a, greater number of han.d s d lrlog eight
hou . -·! -,A.. B ~•l' t be. m,etlJ od, I incl ica.ted,
Q,. You v.-.ouhl Ir --· ·-to p-it io more machine.,- ·.-A. TIie present m~
chinery would Rl\90 em:11.loytuent to more en,
eau ·· we have 'tim,e.s in
the 3~ea,r wbe·n tb .t mac:bine s i .- standio _~ idle sometimes for two or'
tbi·ee days, tbree-fourtbs time,. on -half ti ,e,. and RO on.
,Q. Th~ ·t Jlr. opip _•-; -. · th ·_ n that the t me is not no·w fu11y ,o ccopie I.,
y ·,ou would wor' · on. Saturday , you would work on holidays, and work
all. da5 s, ,vbe.n bv rieasou of d . 11,ress1on iu bu ,iness aod tbe Hk.e there is
now a s j1~,pe1 sion ··- ,A . I wouJtl no-t 1vork lloHdays..
Q. I di'l l not kno· . but th t your id, a 'W a - thai.t ·b y shortening the
hour_. of' labor yon won ,d -_ork. rel - y of bands;, one w·o rkina eigh't,
hours ·nd then au.otbercomHng ·n · ud workrug· wo, 'four, orsi - Jo·o ger,,
and b,,, :P.t'p"ng the. ma.cbine·r y at ,vo,r k ,louble. or·a con .ide.rabl.y longer
t1n1e, sou would largely incre ._ -6 pro1luctioo. give ,e11~plo~meu't to ,e·,·ery;; ;
body ,w·h o w,__ uted .b1ploy1n :ot,,_ ~dn - the pr-ice of goods, a d mak,e
the nee~ ·,a1--t : nfl cowtort ,o f nte the more abundant. l ,1li•l not
·~n,ow bti-t that yo11 bad. hnit 1d · a, but I , · -__ uo .- that yont· plan 1s the
ot.b(lr war :----A. Eight boo-rri,- hould be the limit ·
Q. E~or rnaclun . F\·' a.s Wt!U. a~ ·m,e u . -A.mEt rythi.ng e .oopt in exeep '
t•i:ouaI c«t~ ,, an ti I 111ai. n cl in t'h,::it 15 per ee.u t. 1110,r e Jle01>le c .- n be pH t
to work. l.n the cot.ton -·1ni'II : of th~ s Stat a1ul l\.la,s sachtisetts, it-would
ent into then1 f,eg f'ull ·-~ uot so 1u,n ch in Ma sac ' 11s . 'tts as in thi ·: State.
·w" have oU,000 op rat··v s, largely . hUdr,en., in this S,taite t-hat w·o rt
tw l ve bon.1· •. a da,y, ,o r ue.,r t n bo11 · · '°c· - we~·k more than tl1,e, factory
OJJe "ati 1t e _of l ~u r,Ja11d.
Q _ .I t , oult11ib rate t ,o s,e ,e l1il{lren -_ nd ,g ive employment to ~own
peg,p le T-A. Y s, ,,ir .
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Q. '\'"on]d ,) ot1. h· -_ · tlte cbild.ren ont to-clay T- i\ . We are trying kt
•·1o tba,t now in tb'h; Stat . l · e snoceed ·d iu ,;ce· tiug a bill onle1~ed to
a 'lhinl, rt a.din.~.,, aud tl1c11 lte ·auutncture'I ~,got to · or'k and broo,g.b t
t illt>ir litt],e i uflut,•n _., to b(~ar.
Q, Sur•PO'~•·- yon had. . ,, law and took t.he'm all out of tltie factories,
wonhl not ·t hat p·m duee ~ di tft-1·enee , U.av yon the skilled labGr
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.UJELA.T.IONS hE.twiE'.M LABOR
67
J.!m· CAPITAL.
t Sun~
1· 1~ ~~·- •,··ou take ·t hem a.I t out lomorrow, b.ave ~·ou ,tot the· skilled labor ready to stefl' in 1·beil" plw~es,
s·t ep.· in th ir .places ri.g.· .b .t
&Yray
~
,g rown adult labor 1-A~ Wit'b the reduction of the- hou-·~ of labor w·e·
would, and in a. ve·r,v little. while t'bere would be su.ffi.c.ieut
Q. 1f' you redo ~
.·.··ii th .· boa·:rs. of labor,I aud red ueed rb. qua nt"i r.,--- anti
DD'ln.b er of the. laborers at t be same tin e·., does it folio-.., that tbe 1,,ro-•
JlOrtion can be. kept up sou, to kee·p up the status of suppl,.r of 1uau11factnre,l goods just t·h e .am,e,!-A .. Oh., y@s.
111 l ..unm!Qk
s·u1l:
p
·--·- e.·. . t'_. b·e}ail
-....-..,r·of"'ab1~i
·_.. ·.■ - ·A:··- · "' I·t_ ·1s_-· m·or-e·
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· · 1\1 · .l t1
"1 - · - m ·'OrC!il
·~G -.5pe·rft~nt
. .·
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than 'that in t'bis . tate.
Q~ What ii& it,. 20 per ,oont 'I -A. In some lines of goods more.
,Q Tw'ie ntysfive or 30 · A. More.
,Q. Forty I•- .< .. ·. es, over 40 ·. between 40 a,n d. 50..
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~ears
Q 1Say., .oo t-A 1 ape·ak or cb1klren fo~rteen
D
y
- oJd
. a.nd
- - nnd,
- - -'er
Q~ The pro · or:tion of cbildre11''s labor the111 is 50 t>er oo ·t. ~- · · - I
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woul,d be safe.-iH 1say'in ~. 40 per cent...
Q~ 1S ay 4 • To-morrow· we. ta'ke oo·· . 40 pe·r ctu_t from the l abor th t
_,..J , . ,- ·
-,',e, pres.en
,_ -.. ', .t A'ffl·
,' ,,. . e amonn t' , of .maoo
-.. , . _ct·,ure. d. - .a·rt·.1c
• ., ...es!! ,.,,
Jl'lreuuDceSi th
J.,o,' .. , .we,
will ta:k e out 10 ooditloo to tbat two or t'hNe l1onrs of labor, or one,
bou·r per day,, or any q11.an.titJ yon ,choose,. from t,h e adol't la.b orer; does
it, follow that tho status o,f production, th.e qnantity of 1n.auufactnretl
~ s of th.at i11dt1stry will be tbe, sam ·, after that great ~eduction tlt'a·t ,
it is now
Yes; tlle redoctio·o . of the boor,s w ultl off'se.t , what yoo
woul take out i'D chiJ,d labor, .a nd we would not object to, haJf' time as
· · ...
· · · ·•10 E·
-1·. n·d. - Ior
f '· _· c·b-.·.1·Id·
· · '°o·. ,.f"' a:. e..e1
· ·· · :+~10
in •· · a,
·g
·. e
· · an
: · d
· t·.,h·
. · ·1.-t1. mee·t_
th_ey
uave
.. .ug
. . ren
.a,ti wou
that red. .c tion, and stUl tbe. tactories, make the same amoo.Ht of ,goods,.
I do not ,sa.y the .·· could make· 'the· sam .·..1un.ount of good,s in the sbot"'t
hours as they could in the Jong 'hours, by takin.1 · the cbHclren 01rt, 'b ut
it would eventuallJr come. to th.s t by· their· beiug compelled to employ
adult labor" The capacity of the mHht . •o old be only· tempon.ril · af..
fected.
Q. You ·;-hink,, the-n, in ·tl1e coune of time it wou'ld co:me to that re .
sult., but what, will you do in the .10-eau time ,v.ith these people nntil t ·hat.
,eo·mes about 1'- A. All great C~.a ng,es involve some li.t tle SU' _erin.g. I
think we could p,r ovide for t:h a·t witbou.t any ·v,ery ser.ious mi,s fortuoe.
It ie. a :m atter· of ,d e·t..ail.. Th·i s j .·' only a g-enera{l p·ri ue.ip,le th.at I am as,1Berting. The tDia.tter of carrying it ou.t an1d prov--ding tor details. is a
•· t·, he m.easo.re 1n,,
. t· o
10.atte-r th
, -___ t. w1"II. be
. . nooessar -_ ooo 1"'d_er 111 carrying
effect.,
Q., Does any further w~y ~ .o,g aest i t ·.elf to yoo of p.-r o . ~din.·. tb,e addi+
ti•omal adult, labor for that particular branch of basi'oe :..s, aDd also ,o·f
tak1·o g cai e of t'bose. t'bat .ar-e ·IIJrowu. out of •emplo:ymeo't, ·th.e ,e bild,ren ·1 A., I would do as we b·... e tlone [· 11 tbe suppression of the ei.g ar tenement, facto:ries in. this •c ity;: I ·would ft · .a certain time, a·o d .atlier a cer..
ta.in. ·1hoe have the law take effect. Tbe.11 the manufautorer ,c ould ,shape
bi's arrauge,11e nts aooordin.glJ,. t
,Q. Bu·t who is goiug to sup,p ort th··s · peo1Jle !- ·A . Th~ 1uills go right,
on uotil, .-bat da·r ,"
,Q., ow a11e.you ,g oing to support 't he . ehildren --A~ Yon are spea'lt ...
ing of 'the chilcl~]abor questiou.. W ,e want to g et th ,c ondltiou. of tile
,rorkiug people iu. that shape that a fa .ber a-11,d 1notber c .· n take eare
of t..be1r e.·h ild reH w'i tbout -endin:.t' them1 to work.. 'I tind that ·i s tbe
gffiatest oi•J'.MlS,ition with me in fb.~ cbHd-·l abor agitation, tha the,father
an,1 mother want t11•e lt1 bor of the ,c hild.
Q .. We atre ,agreed about that:; bu·t the question iiA, if to-1norro·w the
Ja·,v too,k them •o ut,, or a ~·ear IJenc~., o.r t ·w~ ,y,ea-rs heotW, tbeJ are with... ·
11111·t any preie:o·b meaua of 101,port; the8e ohildren ·who ba;.ve been, earn•
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RELATIO ~s BETWEEN LABOR AND C.!Ptt.il.;
68
.. th
,. own I..1vrng·
..
h.·.av·e n.o I.on·· .er th
·
th ey can_no
t. 1-auur.
1,,....,.
1ng
_· e1r
_ .at.• ·m.ea.ns;
Now, do 3~ou.coute -·p)t te that tbei fat~,e:r~ aud m.o tben would of oeoos ..
sitJ" int.hat. ti.me b iu. . coo· .ition ,s impt\" by ·T irtne of a ch.an.ge in the
ho-u i : of labor to tak care of tbc1n aud su.p,porit them. without a-n,y other
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assist &HOO 9--A. I thio k by th · fite:t tba t the t··o mpe·t i.t ion ·w·ith ont.si.d e.
laborers would I.le r.emo,retl to ,a large ,ext-en t ; t'h·. .ir wages · oo.ld be inere.a sed ; tlley "'1',ould be in a. posi· io · to ta.ke ear,e o.f ·t heir ,c hildren w·h ere
thes· are not How .
Q . Do 3.011 )'JFOpO' ·. e to prevent co.mpetition ,vith labo.r·'. -.· ·.• T'hat JS
our point. I do not bes:i tate to saJt it"
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Q. ·O f oour.s •. :rou d.o not propose to
pre·,~ent it in one ·t rade only·,. b-o·t
in au, cloth ·-n111king 11.d e,--. 'l 'ytbing 1 : e; --A.. Eve•rJtt- ·i ·1 l g.
Q. So tha.'t the JJrioo of clothes,. aud tbe price of ·provisions, a•nd the
price of' eve.rytl., iu~: _b.aU be regolrited in .o m,0 ·wa.J 3 ou d.o no· e plain t -
at' w ·-iL~
i II .a,r~nm•
J . '°' l~ t s!'!le·lt·•
A ' ,nl.
.J. l,t:_
ll,'IG,6U ,_C.,.:
I
ir.:!11, · &,·
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•t...■:om 1,eti tioo
s ball baV' 11otbin_g to do ·1 -A. Nu. I
meai11 to ties.troy com pefition in bu man · ·esh.; ·· hat is tbe point..
Q._·, ·. ,e wi_l.1 _~all it , .. hon au flesh" then. !-A. ln clothing·, let that
rega.l ate ihitl.f by t H! ·na1·I e,t , ..nine.
Q. If w-e ,can get at fac · · it does not matter·by wb ·t na;m,e we call
tbe1n. I uudergta:nd 'the fact that you propose .in this new · ooiety
is th.at th · re sh.all e no competition. "n ·r .· ·,-~poot tolabor ·.'- A. We ·want
to ded troy hat. OOUJ)'>etition ~-, .. rnucl1 as 110ss.ible. ,, e do not sa .. · tha:t
i _ 1Jeri.ods. of d~p . ssiou the lnw may step in and. fn.rni~b. .a remed.y· i.mmemli'a:_elJ, bu.t if tba1 d 11.r ,. ssion were cou.tiun d,, and certain inflnenoos,
1 ere oontinuaUy at work t,o keep a larg · number ol workmen. ,out-· of
emplo3 n1e.o t, and thns J',entl · r tbem coo1p.-. t:itor .· of those th.at are at
work, w·e ,s ay ~owe power shou·l d ste.p in to take care of . hat eompe..
Q~ But in '" hi.ch
tition~
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Q.. ·T hat i an vei-·y _g ood ; and I
sa:r
so, ,oo.~ 1f · . . an fi.o.d ou·t the
pow·e·ir-. Now, let u Slll)l>O · e the ]~1w adopted, ~ ud there i,s no eompetitiou h res-p·:c·t , to l.abo ~ 01· the things 1Dad , by labor, and ,re have th.e
tbh1gs all 1nad~~ , , •t·;re a 1.nao b•·._ s a clothing st.ore,, a-nd ·be say ·, '' I
haV"~ nu1o~_ged, by· bei.ug .· litt'le sha.rp.e r in tnuliug and cl aliug ·t han
ot ber J)eo1 >le, to _g ,e a .l lf'e t-Ja --ood s -[oek ,o f tbese things OU hand ; I
·w Ul tl.11 tbe~e tbiugg a rttle ch.eap. r than anybody e]·. e."-A.. Tbat hs,
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hi , ln ,s·i ues .
Q.. . er · i,s .a feno,v o,·.cr here ,vho say.s, " ·· Oll forbid competition ; I
ha ·e got fl Iu- of th
goocl ; I ll' 'fe n t. wo1. k,ed ·m y· hand,s but two
or 'tllr-ee hou~, aud I b a ,. . e 1iai1l t be·m. their ,vages, u:oder the l ·. ·..."-A.
W , . do uot fix wi1,ges.
Q,., u .l.1 i.s .fello1tv is ~.11a p . r tha1.1, I [uo, and be has beaten me tradi -,g..''
You .fix t-be 11un1ber of hour~ be has to \17ork, and ,yon say, "That is a
day'~. work,.." I do not ·. , ,,~hat. _g ood it "i\"''i l be Ubless you fix tbe wa~
and say·'they ,Sha11 beth · sa1t1•e for .~i:x hours' ,. ork ~l's,for ei,g bt B-u t Jea,ve
th.at o· .t of ,~ie ·. ;, thi8 fellow sa -~8,,, 0 'fb.e ot'ber fe1l.uw has undertmded.
m ; "be is slu1:r,p~1, aud has brok n. 01.1: upl' Has uot the tell,ow ·wb.o bas
'b roken 'h im UJl a n1ono1.-i,ollJ of tho nn11·k .t, antl.can h oot-charg,e wha't, be
plea es f- · ·.. '\ \re do not w=1nt to ·i nterler - .. · it'h that ki.nd o:f comp·· ti, ion. Auy one cau 18 II at a losij if be i,leases
Q. Then th6 conipetitlon yoR pro1,os.· to de·istroy .r -}ates. only fx>, the
bouts of la or '! -A.. Th~ - is so.
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CHA.IRMA ·- :
Q. I nnderstand,., th.en, that yonr position is tbi·- 'tba-t before capital
is allowed to accumulate, as a primar3r condition labor· shal] be.:reason.~
ab·Jy· cared for.~-.a.. That ls the point.
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
6'9
BELATIOX.8 BE1T WEBlf LAD,O·R A.ND CAPITAL.
Q. First,.. there sha11 be.a reasonable pi~visioo for· 'the laborer·and his
fami~y·, d.i stribut,e d in the form of w ge,s , 'b efore there ,s hall be an aoou. .
moila.tio-n for capitat
Mr.. '0ALL~ .B e doea not mean th · t _
; he. means there shall not be com
petition in hirin -· ~·,.
The C · -HA , . think thait posi'tion involves what I say, that th·e
laborer ei~aill ~ taken ·care of; that the.bnman being ·wh.o has ·,, .· ~se,,and
body, an·d so,ol, sball h;a.ve a chance before tb,ere is an aecu·ma.Jation
beyoiuL
Mr. OJ.LL. Wh,y not h·· ·ve a,law; then., sayiog ·that e ~ery laborer shal
have~ good house to Ii: e in, good cloth.:·.. to wear, an.,d good food to ,e at,
and wbatev r amount of money· rep•rc·sents that.
The W1rnss~ 'T his proposition 1s the mo·..t , direez way to reach tb.a.t
result in my m·i nd.
Mr. OJ.LL~ If you. can mak•e such .·_ laiw,. and make il·t ·w ork, llt ough.t to
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be passed,,bot tha·t ba.s nothina to do with the means you speak. of, ·p reventi.n ,g ,o ompetition, to 'b ring about t'bat result. If' you employ a 1abo.rer
you ·haJI give J1im. enough m.on y · to bny him a g,o od hoa.se. to li ve. in,
good clothes to w·,e ar, good food to eat for h.b nself and ~i. , family, and
bbt boo ,e ,s hall be he . , IthJ on.e; it shall not be :-JU:rronnd .d with bad
air or any of the concomitant · that produce. pe _tilenee :a nd il'I health!!,
If yon l!tH1ld. have a law· directly to .-_mrm 'that, of course we sbon1d h.ai\"'.8
t'bat question se tied without relying o~ ,e oonomieal a; · .d po.litica.l quee,• tious as to competition, or su.:pply .a nd d.· ·mand..
Tbe · . ITNEss, I ·w.a.n t to make, correc'tic.11 there~ You as .nm•e. that,
I stated th\3t I w.as, in fa,,:or of regulatin,g- the price of clo·tbing aud th,e
price of e er.·. thin.g.
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Mr. C . .· ·., O.. ,. no; I do not. I do not assume tba·t you are in favor
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of anything.
The W1TN s~-· Yon ·made the statement in such a way as if I w.as. ~
,sponsi.'bl e :fo:r i. t.
·
=Ir. OALL. .- ;,,ot at all.
The WtT _.Ess. I ,d o ·not ·w ant it to go down in tliat way.I
llr1 ,c • -L . I au1 no loo·k in:rr· at yon · s .a n. individual; I am as.k ing you
.._s to these ideas whieh lTon.think ar•e afloat.and ar,e iDtloent1al a:mongs·t
t,he working ·peo1>le.
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PUBLIC TBLE·G RAPHS A.ND RAILROADS.
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e. C ··.· ii ·-- -~. Proo .· · i with your state1meo.t.
The WITNESS. The tendency to ·01.onopo)y in all branches of trade i:s.
growing more M]l'i dl.. bere tlian ill an.~,.- country 1.0 the•·world.. I question ·_·hether there. ar-e men in tb ··. ,O·l(l ·, .·0 rld, with all tbe.ir .aecumolat1ons, th· .t ·p os ss th@ power,- which, o,t:1r· cbiefs of raiJroads .and tele
.bTapbs,poMsess, yet .sorne peo1,lea1'e willin,g , hat such power be ,continued~
I 'believe the great m,a jority of our 1ioo,ple ·onld at'or ·t he. building of
indepen.d .·n t t legraph line - a:ud -ra.ilr00.d~, ·w hite the objiecti.on t,o this
comes maiioly fro1n those who fear an ·. xt o.sio-n of public pat'ronai:e,
yet J can ·. e no reason wby that .· hould be an objection as the p~~ople
ooulcl better, contro'J. a res_
pOD'. ible rather 'tbao :an irresponsible inst~tu.
t!io11, •e .pec1aUy w·heu tht' COst of eryioe would be la~ly reduced with ..
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out. rednit,\i n~ the pay of tbe emplO) •e~
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By,
,., the. CHA.IRM:A. · · :
Q~ · · Olll. 1>r-OJlose to i.n v .· st an additioDial -amoun·t ·or capital equiva.Jent
to ·t hat already in vested 1u tr~ .nsporta1·io- , -te)egrap· ~-;, · nd tb.e like, to
be owned. by ,be poblie1, and opera:ted b7 the pnblicf- ~ Ye.s, s.ir.
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70
'R-E L &.& T'l'ONS
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Q_ Tbat woo Ill be equ1valeut ·then, ·\1101 ld 1t. not, to tbe destruetion of
lhe e ·ist-ing fucilitieM -A -- o ; I would uot in terfure ,v ith tbe prie'8eut
:r oad -. ot 1v·1tl the ·_•-xi~t:ing t .· leg1·.a.1~hs.
Q." ] :f ti 1ose fhci Ii tie · for 't au ]lOl' -~ t iou, teleg c1pbyl, a.n d the 1ik,e, are
noul" s.u.fflch~n to trnu -act the JJUb•Hc husin ·_ :M, 1\"'0~~ld it DO't be ·b et·ter,
instead of lll\ ~~ting ati 1nuch more· w·bicb all eome,s ou·t of' labor in .he
eod., fo·r the 1:u1bliu to take vossessci.ou of -e istiug ~fa,cilit~ es, inakin·~ fair
oom.pensatiou 1hr them and run them iu beb:1·1r of the 1n1blic,, 01,, to,, bJl
Je_g islation, Uu-1t . tbe fares and. tbe, freights, tbe ta,x •eR, ,vbich these. :pri.vate a._geucit-s :1n·1y iHlfJOse oo t ·.e l}UbHc tor their serv:ioe in such WAY as.
to rieach the reijult .ldob. you. Lr ., e in y·.e,v l ~ A ." I would ha ·e no oh;jecti,o u to tl1at if the Go,·erument would pa) for the actual co.st, -0011s1,ler~
i1n g Wt3ar a11 d teal, &c.; and it strikes rtle, tak iug tbe b-road view or·thls
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q u~s.t i.ou, and 1' be
11un111 er
iu '''tb icb these iu.stl .ut1ons hav·e possessio to
a 111ore or less ex tent. of leghda.tion, or t be means of legi,s]ation, that it
would J)a.J bettei· in the end for th •Gove1·nm.ent to bnUtl tbese roads
anti tbtse telegrA]>h liue ·, from. the ti1~t · ba.t a price ,v·ou.ld be ·p ot. 11pon
tbe exis:t ing companies. tLat would ·be, i. n IDJ op,i n100, fiye times gwater
than t lu~: origi11al co ·- t .
Q. Do yo11 not understautl that the Go19e:rom,ellt, if it can legi late on
th .-.·•.s ubject nt all, m.ay coude•' 11 bis p·r opert,y,, and pay what it i.e. re•
sonabls· wo,r th f-L\.. I beJieve it bas that .rigbt..
Q.. But .suppose it is tb.OoJtbt be' ·t to h~·t these ·11gencies con.tin oe in
pri,·•,a te h.a·nds.; ,v.ou]d soa not reach the same Fe· .u lt b,y limitiug · he ·
charges, by J.··tw wbicb way be ta-k · n :f nnn the po.blic. for servi0e !-A.• I
,. k · 11
~ ,i.
tt' er t Jo, mak.. uo .h a I,,..,
,. . ...,:-- , b nt.
th 1u
~ won Id
. -De 'lt.,.l:16........
1-·• ·ay mo\:"•e ·i. n ·th· a.t .d·_· .1reeL!-10·
to either take pos .es·, ion ori ,,.:~yio,g wba.t the .foad: ..and. ·telegraphs ori_ginally -eo:s,t o,r to bu1hl th .-· m b,y -the Governm -·u·t -· _ire.ct.
Q .. Do J' OH 'thiuk the Gov .rument coo.Id o,perate the lines of 'transportati.ou bJ land and water, te'l,egraph)", and ~be like· a . -,c b,e aply as priva.t,e eori1oru tious. car do it ·-- A. I ha-l"'e :not taken in. the water-wa~ &
·~ ,v·eu, : win La e tho,se o it then. , -.• I consi,d,e r· that tho. G,o· ern..
men,'_ could do it mueh cheaper..
.
Q~ .••-o't m.och ,cbea,1,>er than hese companies ac.-tuallv render··the serv~
ice tbt'-■ It ur1i.gllt be reclueed. b:y law, b-u·t ,do yoa not und.ersta.nd tba:t,
tu; a rn le .a p rl va te in~i v~dual can do a oorta1in piece of w-ork more ,e·hea1>Iy
than it cau be done by the public _-- A" Yes; 1f it is ·, lsgi.tima.te b11si..
11ess, n~t. de· .· -infr an_J ,special pri.1lileges; bfrt when we ta·~e -into consideratio'D. · ha _these, oo _paoies pay extravagant sal _rieg, i.ssue nnlimit .,J ·p a:· .s , and. hav," fine, ,expensive b-njldin.g,s ,. and carry a lar,g.: atnount
of stoe.k that re·poo e11t- not.bing, it strikes me t·bat when they .· ~ ,k 5, 6,
or 10 J>er ce t.. on that 1't would see.·m tha·t th ·· oost of servioo co,o ld be,
,cousid ·rablyr.e duc ·d h3~the Government taki.ng hold of the :mattertbemst'J,~es an,l working al telegrap:h. ys,t emor building a railroad t·b at ·wo,n ld
(~ : "t .about one-fonrt'h or one-fifth of what. these. roads are represented.
to be l\"Orth.
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I believe your com1n1ttoo 1S bould ha ,e, a comp,l e:·t e knowledge. ,of the
rate of ""'ages ·pa:id in Europe as. compared to tbis ,country, a:nd its purcl1.asin.· ; pow ·ri .. fuoh has bee..n fULid that Olli" work--people .a re ·oo better off th ·_ n ·the wor·k-people of. Eu,rope. I was ,determiaed to ftod ou·t
if sucb ·,,-.ras t'he ,ease,,and ·j, ·s.ned a1eircu·1ar to our co·osoJ,s in. Eu.rope la.s;t
,J nly..
b ..l·,-e r, .·. -e·i v~d rep,l ie· . from .nearly. all the prin.ei1ial tJoints
\\rbence our 1m.n11gran.ts come,]and find tbert the oonutries from ,vb1eh
\\" .·. receive t;he .J ar~t nnrqbe-r ot i111migrants are those where the wage1
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a:rc o,west a 1d pop,11lation thi ·."k
The 'facto.r31 OJ>e1ati'\ eH of En.g l.aotl
are better olf 'tha · btar 1 bu i ~ i:s tl1e ouly xce;1tio11, I nui ])rel) 1,i g
rt table 1. por1 tlti~, 1•o'in't. . Ir,. «Jo..~.]Jb ~im1no, Jr.,, ,~
biet of the llureau
of Stati st i ~s, ac. ! U O \ ·. Iedged i 11 ~-. h ~t t.~l'" 't O 'I ll >- th« 't Co ugr ·SS1ll ~u,. _1S eua~
tors, a,n,cl ,t.~nunitteeN wer . contiuua.Uy a.,.;,,. r. tu.u hirn for informa.tioo re~
lutin~ t.o 1·,,1. t e of \\ ,tJ ges J.r l id iu E 1n 1·op-e ~~s,com IHlr-e d to this coo.u tr}", a.o,d
, a. --• eoufd. th ~1· f h .. .· · o,~l~r,u :u1 ·;n ·._ hail no ,s n.c h i11.form" t10 u, ne.v -r , hav
i11g ap1•roprlat . cl. a tloll,al" for the purpose. I a3k••tl the State Dt'partn1eut to nrg-· the cousnl::, to g ,t the iuforma'tio · ,.. · vr _- a.fter, and the
Departu1eut t ·JlHt tl that th~i· we~e abont to i~t;ue, a circular co, ·ering
tbe '1 "uol . sul~j .t,
here tb,e. ,\·ages and 11urcha· 'iD,g J>0Wer of ,mou y
are ,q tuil tl1:~ro -· honld. be free ·tratle, but uo arti~t.e 1
Should be pot upon
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f.b e f1~.e li:st, n11uDfact ured ·n a country ,v,h ere ·t be wag, _s are- :'."O Io·w 'Chat
f \ o,ultl ·,Iri.,tc our ioods out of our o, ~n m,arket., Our o·wn market
1-1:hou]d be. l)rot,rctetl, and .· nu1n.ber o · a ticl ;: _now on the free U,Kt ,s boul.d
lla,' e
clu(x Li ___ b -~n,,ugl.t t,o keep on.- fo~ig11 .. m.a d . goods.. _ No _ag,e nt
sbo·,Jd be a:J(ow,etl to briug iu1migra.uts unll~~s th . y OO'me of their ow11
,1· ._ will
n ti. J_ta~r tbelr o · ·n pas g , . ;\ rm.any ,1Italy,, S woo.en,, Deo•-a,·.. , S,w.itzerli1ud,. Au,tria, and Eurrlaod ca.n all snccessfuHyt;@m,pete
·w.i'th us \V'itb ire . t _ade, to tbe e tent of their mana:fa·u tnre -, 11.nl,e:ss
w"t1g · s a - -..lowered. here to th san1e l~vel tha,1t the.v an, in other couu-~
rJet;,
cnttou gOO(I s exeepte(lJ c·an ad
. _.a11_1..uce.1"t h as b. eoome ,l,i 1~rotect.1.on'.st
conntl"J-, bas grown wo11d Tfu.11.· • U oder free,·t r.a de England supp Ii .·
Caoada large)y ·with. e,·erything; now 'they sup:ply th . ,mselves wi:t h
n arly p,-ery t b iug.. Tb.e m.an.utacturer, in rwany i:n -ta·n ces, t· 'ke . ~he
lion_,,, share of the p.rot.~ctioo,. bu't a -fast as _labor be,eomes educated"i.t
ecures it1S sh.are be_·ttes empl.o:vment-,1which the A .m erican wo- kman
wonl't l uot ha _· if '1be good - ·_,ere · _ade o.n ·bre other !.ide.
Q. D"tl J Oll get data of much \l-alu,e to yoo from tbe other sid.e '! -A..
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Q, Yoo. have n·._ t got them o that xoo can gi -. e them
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bnt I find that 11.u.gland is, the-ou'l1r CdllDtrJl
I
I bav,e the:m DO't comp,l et 1
where tbe workingmeu are rea _- onabl,y well, off,, and y,ou find by tbe,im..
mi,_g atio,n that th ~e ·•rie no t many oo·m inJ di·r ect, from Eugla'n,d..
. t.l Conl.d loo !!j'V~ the COUJmit'tee, at • later tin1e,1the 'benetlt of tb,oac
data!-,·· Y . ,. --- 'ir~
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_
Q. p r .h api; you ,d e, ire to make U e of the , in some . pec1al w~:v JD,
tbe fir,st iosianC!e ·-A. I I ,ro11osc to make use of them,,and ,•,e y effe:e~
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Q. Wbe ·. do 'YOU tllink th._ y will be -_- vailable to give to the po.blie A,. I have so l1tt-l -• ti.me, and I am .receiviug re.plies e,~er)~daJ ,, thait i,t
ma~ be two or three w · k.s ~ ~et.,
Q. WJleo ~foo ~ re , "b,Je. t.o gi e 1,bem to th.e p,ubl'ie 'i f you ,desir-e to Kive
them iu 1some foi:~ m to :rour,own or~ao,i zatjou first; we bc1v-e no objt~ti. t11,
bu.t , we , hould like to place the1n O' ·- he r-eeonJ. . of· the ,t!cnnmi'lt -e,..- -A.
I nod in Germa,ny, that th··, 1v.orki.uan1.e11'@S agitation there has forced ,&
pretty good syst -m of st.atiHt1rn,. They b•._ v·e i 'Sued there. ev·tt:"ry month
'I D som,e pa.rt __ of German_
y full and co:m:pJete s:tn-.t:msties of tbe condition
of ·t he _ ,orki.o:g people., ,wa e -, _. arned, cost of provisiou . ", :r,e ~t, autl Id II
those item ·, w.h ich were forced, no doobt1 bl•' the agi1at1011 of · be work~
i111gmeu of that ooun·t ry., There are ,some .:ipecial triMle that are ootter
off in -. urope · ban h _~ bot 1 hav-e llOt ·bacl " chan,ce ro io·, r,esti;:rate; bu't
I ,know the.t."tt,on OJ'l rati e are ·better o!I i Enrope than he~.
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Q,. All ela .ses, O'f co ton. ope ,--ti V ' s ,, _ · · e •rly all cl a es ; ,a otl eapooiall1 cW to chil4'~ the ~w is v·er1 sev,ere. fliµder, a ~r~n age,n9
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72
RELATIONS B,E 'T WEEN LABO'll AND CAP.I T'.A.L.
cbUd JrS allowed to wor .. in the factories, an,d between ,certain ages th n,,is
halt..ti n1e~
.b e factorv inr pectioo .la _ is enforced pret~ t ·orongbly,
ancl the Gove·rnm· ·nt -reoomizes prominent m_- n in t.b.e labor mov,emen.t
o,·e-r· ther,- bv Uf).p ointiug them fa~·t ory ins,p ecto a, and, ·u that ,w ay th~
· t e1·t 1·•·n .hav1n,
- . g t·.h- e .I w en 6~.oree
· · -d- a.re p -Iaced
. th ose pos,1~
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why
referred .:•· -, my ea lier 1s tstemen.t
bere to~dalr to the fact that we bav ; yet to receive fcon this Gol"'ern-
me11 i ma.nv
tbin:g s th _:~t the British Governm,e t ha _: conceded t,o labor
,. t ~'"
·org nmza ons.
Q. Do -., on understand. the ·Oouditio:o o:f th _. factory operative to be
bett t1,r ban in t:h:b;, ,o oun. ·'Y an~w. her-e 1S a t'"e in Engla.n.d ' Ali 0uly in
Eng aud.
·
,Q,. l.t is u.,ot bet~-._ r "u Franc,_ , or- ·in Gcr_m.auy o·r Be1!?,ium.!---::A.. No;
I _IJinli: there is a 1it,t1e better situation. in I ranee, but the iact ·-· at the
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h,ere in. lar.g e :unmbers hale, gone to S,w·eden.
and to tbose countries ind'iClL't -es tba th.e.~ co J,t not g . En gli ,h ope,rat1,·..-~~. ·, on w.i11 re.co loot tha. , soinewhere in the neighborhood of ,yonr
ho1ne, or, clo e h,v , they hav·e bad a.n importation from S·,,.e en. W ,e
would ui~e to strHt,e at that s~ystem of immi,gratioo too.
m,e n 'Who bring labor over
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ow· e. ·te.nsive. an evil do yo11 tl'nderstand oout1:act imm.igra-tion to
be -A. t i.s, growio.g eve.ry day,. ,Ever since, t -e. workingm,en ha,ve
1
been begiunin,g to orgaui~e and booonte acti v,e _,a,od bu ·ioe s has stirred
up ·. Jitt.le in. fhi oonntry,. the deman,I in some of tho ·'.e lines is,sue·h that
tbt"y ";ould not shi.P labor,,, and wh,, ne,,.er ·t bere is any· trouble witb Oll ·ra~
ti,~e - t-bes-- · entl ov rr to · o rop :,, or tel ..graph to so:me reliable party to
get them people, and t.he:v are williug to advauee the, mon~y to pay
th , ir fare and make oontraet , ·w.itb them O\"e.r the~
Q, Balie)oaknown thatto be.doue iotbts, Stat-e '_-Ai Ido:notknew
of 1ny own "'.Uowledg !l: iu this, ,Sta"t.et ·b ut 11r,e snm.e if you \\"onld. call
- 0O1,e of tb.e operative.·, in Uoh.oes, or in the Utica ,d.i strict, yoll wonl,d
get ~o,1ne intormation on tbat point . .
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QI Yon mad.e an allusion. to p,roteetion as,it has operated. i'n Ge1·many.
,vin1t are y ur Yi · w1s, or t~·e, v1ews of those .Jou re11resent, on that ,sub=
ject in thi , · , untry ', •- A.. \V'ben I spok,e of Germ,a u - I said that there
w·as a sjstem o"£ •tatistic~. gathered there. for the ben ·fi·t of their own
people..
Q. It was. ._anada ,:ui to _'b ich ) ,o a s11nk,,e of' benefits of protection,
Ho,v iM ,it in, · ra,rd to that matter in tbi_ couHtry .:- A., I know rn:aun ..
1~1cturer - that cannot _ell any goods iu.Canada iuce. they havf' pot dt I ~._ \S t1JJ.01 several articleS". Of oo,u rse · · ditl not ·i nquire very fnll,J-, but
it, inll ·cates that i.t is prietty ,geuet . t Besides, trades orgaoizat·ion s
o\~e1 there. ar, ) :~owing t""ery r& pi.dly, aud th.at always indi,c ate,s that,
tbere i .., some p,ro.sp · i .~. Tb,e -e. ar,e some town · there that had been
doiug hat'dly anything for ove.r _igbt.y years that are uow growing· up
, -_r: I"apidly since the. ·p rotectioni,s t polic~v has 'b e n iutroc:lt1eed.
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Q. , You do not uuderstand ·that Caoadi.an goods are 'brought to this
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, •,ou n t y to a:u -"' e.x ten't 1- - _ ., · . o.
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Q What al'e :your v,ie-_ -s as, to the effect of the tariff upo·n our own in1dus-tri •"S, _ ud the intere .t · ·• peciaHy of wor:k1ng people f-A. You mean
a tari·Won forei.g,n-made goods ,;
Q. Yes·t customs, duties.. A. As I stated, where it is discoTe~ed tha.'t
n certain 1nanufactnred article is made in anoth.e r conntr;y bat mai,y b ·
made he.re tbe dut,- &h.oul~ be 18 0 hiJh as to keep, that artjcJe out ~ocJ
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
.-.,,
BELATlQ,. S,
·TWEEN L,ABOR AND CAP·I TAL.
giv .· otrr own people employm -·nt-. Tber · ar.e lots o,f arti.cJe on the free
Jist now t.ha could. be ma.nnfuetured here and wonl d give em·plos-1nent
to per'b&))S, t'hr-ee or· ·1001· hood .··d tbonsand uu~n.. The .· ,to,r eahonses. in
this c.ity are increas.ing .·-.very y ear- where go~ are pn . in bond and. remain sonietim,es three or four mout.bs.
Q,. Good ,tba't might b manufact ired int.his.connt13· 1- . ·y es, that
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might be man.ufaetured b :re
,. pose tar1
. '" t1t u.pon ta\ materia.. l s wh'"'
Q . Y.ou.won Id_o.o , o.f cours , 1m.
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,cannot be p,rodncetl in this coun1· rv .'- '.. • ()h, · o.
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A .. I belie.,, ~e the ··. atioual GoYern.meo·t , _-.b ,o nld .·top ,giv-ing :a:wa. ..an.y
~ore land,.. x · ·Jl't 1hr actual settlers, ancl should f1 -cover all la11·d s for·..
feited by the rajtroad· -. ~ U ni"mJJl"O ec.l propertL s·b oold be.taxed the sai. e
Thiis ,vooI<l dri ,e. the id.le ,land ·. into tb market.
Q<i Do .· -,on mean thCi_t unim11ro,. .ed. land,s sho 1(1 bet xed ,so 1:110.cb per
~ere·, or· 1S o mueb in proportion to th 0 surt~u~e of each o·wnershi·~ ., ,_ A.
Eitber it .sbot1Id be n.s ed by tbe o,wn r or it should b . •P'U t on the mar-·
k ,e t :f or sale·., so that peop·l e ea.n use it..
Q. Or beeom,e. estecJ i11 th ·. G·o,ernn1.ent ·~ o you not tb'ink th.at the
oper,a tion ot · .b at ··. ould be to ,- s·t large tracts of )and by tax ales in ·tb.e
.. o·verum: ·nt itself·f- A. 18 0 w uc·11 the bett.er; the·o the Gov-erume,n t
c011ld di '(Jose of th lands. to parties who want,e d the' · .
Q... S!1PJtose that to be d,on · ·in_what ?.r.ay woo.ld you bav,e t'he Go ern-·
tj'b e·.· l ,. iir'.Hl,,;:
.
To". 8 J1 t U' ·l . t ·t·1e·~
H":lle·D t dis~
:y:w..r.~,....,, o·.· f !ti.
Q. B ,y ,re"Dt or ·a.le .·-A~ Sale,
~
Q Gi.\"ing fee-:5nmple 'titl.es,, as we ooJl then1 f-A. Yes,, sir; I w,~ nld
not -wau· th · ,G overum.e nt to · · 11 mom land to one indi,..idual t,han just
enougb to give him a cba11c• to make a good li,,.iug on. it•, aud,..if it it.1· a
,oity la,w autl the city gov•e rflmen.t is compeU.e d tot k it ,- '. ~eason of
the ta •· not being 1:mtd., l,e t it be so]d t,o an inrliridual for his use a a
hom•e~ Let .·. here not be a large, accu·m ulation of lots and ae1~; of land.
io a fe~ 1neni''s 'handis.. ·w ·: are growing t•o that. ·p rett).. fast iu the We1
s.t.
Q., H •. ve you. au. · data on t.b a't et1bject,of the i11crea,s e of wba·t one ·w itness called bonanza f: rms, large ownerships ·i n private. bands, •- .~ ... I
have r-ead a good deal on that point.,,:a:od ·. · e ba,•· some :1ieople , ·ho .· re
t~mtt)· ' . el~ posted on it, bu~t h -\ 0 not ba.d ·t he time,exeepting to notiee
tha.t. there is a gr,eat deal of land 'i n the ha1ods, of' a few m.· n, aud a,great
aJJ. jm,J)•roved..
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deal of land g,e ttiu,g i'nto tbe. h ud·.. o,f fure:i goers, lords and. du.k es, the
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a n g•to·cl'iac•y·
Q:. I haV'e , en tba . st tem,ent, nd b ve. made 1some effort to asoorf ,_ iu wheth .· it is · - ,c or uottJ I am oot in posses• io:o of a,ny ·v ery detiA I upnnQ!a
il'l,o·d
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nle4r.~n d. "lit·a o·,f ·tbn,
o..t . k;nd
. _ r . . . ~ ,t·.h.
u . · . ,o · m
u:. · ··1· ·. .I·on
. ·e·.• r
could t-ell.
Q, ~T.h e land ·r oight not be pat.e:oted to foreign o ·ners, and probably
would ·n o·t be,. and .o tbe records.wou]d u.o t sho · it I
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A. In View of the fact that the product of m.an.,n faetures is three times
greate in ·, alne tbau that ot agricnltore a depart1 · e1 t of 1aoufactnres
and Jabot~ should he cre __ te<l.,. i.f for n-o otber· 1·easoo. than to furnish :in . .
1.~rmatiou not uow in posse .· ion of th.e Governme.nt. Tbe De11a.rtmeot
1
of Agriet1[t11re was form.,· d tor th . same ·purpose.. The departm· ·~tt I
p.ro.~ .e \VOnl4 oot be .0 exrens~v~ J h : v,e referred. t9' t!t~ . ·d•e.rartme:pl•
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
7&
RELATIONS BETWEEN L ·B,O B A.:i.~D CAPITAL .
1,~,viou1.dy on t be q ut~"stion of t)1e bou:r s of' labor. I 't ,,,·o uld ba;v,e,great
iuflu,ent.~ ·i u oonec1tug fac1· · aud figures, and. gi,,jng our peo11.l e inform&tioH 1 ·11 ot on Iy u-01·ki 11 J mn u. but lna u u tact u r ·.r~.
Q~ JJ:o ,,·ou mt_-1011 to Iuclud . i11 t l1ut ,,. Jutt other ·1·it11eH8eS 1neludc in a
stafsbcal b1u-eau ·. . . . . A. Y~ti-,, 8ir; e:x actly.
OVER,CRO'WD.IN'G OF LARGE ClTIES.
Tbe Ol"crcrowdin:z of large citie~1 especia.lly tbe cit)' of New York,
sliould re-cei,~e lh~1 alt~ut.ion of b,e alt JJ boa1ds., 'l"b~re i~ a s1,1lt.1ndiil OJJ1101.•'E UHit)~ l'Ol' rich 1nt~n to do ,.,otne good ror tnankiutl here.
The .l abor
Jl,t·o b]ena, 1n nt>,t lat: g~ly be sett lCitl b ,~ t be i.~eot de ·1bc'm .., ~l,.. l\~ A •I is})Otsltiou on f bt' JJ.a 1.·t of t Uose \lm ho H11. . b . tJt~r iJtt~ to bel, ,, f bei 1~ D tore 'UH torto nu te. a.ssuc iHt~8 iu buUdiu,g luJm.~s, 1.•, . uted, or sold n.t a su1all udl"'aaoo
.t ,bovc co~t .. aud ,e x,~Ha).):t f1 om taxcl'tion t In~ l101nc ot tho ,,. 01·lri11gman,
Cli~) t•Jl•o· t ' ,.:t:- ("lift ti .. ''
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\.• a 'II,oe·d' 'a .,", C'' ru
O 41'0, n,u, ue ~um c 11,S Ul ' •JiI la',tiS3CdU~,
zs,, l\: OUll.l ~, lU
Dt)" o 1:n H ton, sou C
~tbi n g t IJ at,. '\\'"bi l tJ .-i,s cournra,i l I ee b ~us no 110\Vtn'" iu t b c
p remi.tie,s., ir,11reoorn meudat1.ou \\-•Ou!d, I pre.t:1um1e , ntt1·ac,t attention a11(l
hel·p tbe eao~.
Q. You w·otdd exemr•t th •. homestead to, tbe amount o:f f1·om iJ,ooo
to 1011\000!-•A.. Yes, ,ir..
Q.. Would you exen1·p 't the Jlet'sonal l)rope·r t5 , , I t.bink you. s.u ggested
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earlier au :i ll ;01 ,e tax ,~ A. ·, ·. es, s,ir.
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Qi 'T o otr ttt f'or the. in.crewse th~tt the public trea1s ury rec . iYetl in that
,vay ~you w·ould libeiate t~e sm,a nerpropertiesoftb~ J)Oo · ·,-A .. Yes, sir.
· Q. In persoual as well as rea·t et!itate . ~ A. \ ell, to that e tent;,
efforts. sbot1l.d alw.ft.)' be m,ade b, .· me·n of it,th1euc · to Rllow that the
workman hi the greatest su·f li~RI'. by b·td law&, I ha,. ~ b: ~n told that,,
by :1aborers inLna, ,i ng · the~ r Vf, · ges , - 1011gb org.a n iza t io11 ;,, ;I he result itii
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t t h "ll,1·t· m
...s, o, d_,oes not
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. rant
.d .tll, 1a1.
. at
gi, e the, ma k, · r a chance to rS 11 an art itle fbat be otlier,v,ise- could 11ot,,
and tbns, gi\"e · ;tD1~lol~meut to 1~1bor : T.IJe n1an ,,r-itb i j: Jt'. r day can ·
'boy mor•e thau wi -b a dollar, an,d if tbe \vage •·, of 1,000,tttJO '"' 01.. k.i ugm,en
.. re i nerea sed 81 J>er week, it ill ~reases, th~ (.{ re.u Ia tioll ,, or· th t!l J:i fe-blood
uf'the nation $32 UfJ0,000 per :fear; and if' 5,0o0,000 seeu1·e an advance
tbere lis th · tSO,ID be11 eftt to ·;be countrv 'IU the. · a. r11c rati.o . Dec.r~ase
wag,~ as tbey \\\~,ere doliug the p·. nic, uuder tl1e.,contraction bartl~money,
~.u t 'h e
· Ian d_t".." : l . th
..s
po..•~.1cy~ aD d.
, e, er,y propert~ 1
_. _e en•.· c,t:..
t h.111k . th
, e"r e 1
·m,o re .- ·. oue.y in cireulat,ion to-day, growi.:ng out ,o f increased wa.ges-, tha'D
at any t.im,e. do1in g ·t be, history of tb . coontry ~
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POLl'TICAL PARTIES ..
101cone1usion, 1 deMire to sa1r tlla t working 10,eu aHd , u.1nen and tbe
· ·i·ielldt>of ~U(!h are or,g aui·z iua ·i u. t.bi=s.ounniry very ra1~idls, lfauy ),ears'
,e .·periei 100 ba:s tau~b t them a le :-son, The 1•ulicy of' tbe ftt. ure of these
orga,nizatioHs ,,in !Je to defeat ·t heir ·~ uemi an,\ sustain their friends.
Tbey a1e begi.un·i ng to, le~lru tba.t · h1,· . Goiernmeu·t ;w as created tbr tlte
beu •. ·6 t of the pt-:c'rt.l 1,Ie an issue tht·~t'" o great parties a void, exce1•'t when
they .fiud that the seuti1neutal er· ,vHl not ,vor,k~ The 1-lepublicaina
ra-isecl the cry of protection fo,r l .bor at the ,1as t, n,atioua I campilign,, )"et
placed oH tbe fre li~,t . nuu1y articles tl:i at could be manufactured her.e
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i:utStead of io auotber cuuntr~f ,, Tbie. D~1.nocrats 1norn,1secl to wi1:.e ont,
coo ,·iet eout ract 1~1 llor i H tbi8 Sit ate u utl fu-i led to kee.p tht:"' iT ·p.romiseS,1
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T 'h c 0.1,iaDizetl .01,0,·ernen . n·iU r~Ct>b,'11iu; 110 p,arty;, bn·t titrik .. at men who
betra~· their J>ledGts, Iµ th•s 'Wit;e . e e,xpec.t-noii'n.ti).e large oitiea--·19
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
75
B.BJ..A:TI.ONa BETWEEN LABOB A.ND CAPITAL.
b-r in · out a clais s of mer.1 lo ng ign_,ored by the machine po1i.ticia•~ " ·ho
·w1·11 ~.tatHl by t be p ~ op:J.e's 1n·te1 ijts, who ·w·ill I. f{isl ateior the masses aud
not the fe·\\1'.
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Q . . .~re 3:ou mem/be·r of the. Kui~hts of'Labor ,_ ·• Ye_., sir,.
Q.. Ila ve you auy ftrrthm- st.a.temeut to mak<"-, or au,y other sug_g es. ion.
1
to submit 1..........A .. I think I have co'\i ,e red the ground pNtt~'" fnHJ . . J hope
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·, au,·- d t:h-~
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some f.l00-'-d, 'w1·1 11 res,u
_ 1rom 11n., es 1ga.. ions,
. a-. m3. 11 'dli"e__ euor
_ w1
eootribute in help ·n ~· to solv _a thi~ gr-e at proble-- • I realize that 1t 1s a
great gues.tiou., and on, of tbe qu · tions tba.t must be-m4Jt in the u.e.v
totuFet aud ~ I look at ·1.t it is, the o-n ly live quegtioo that i~ before t.b.e
peo1•le -to-da> .
QI : oo coosid.er, I su.p_pose, t.ha __ tb-e trades union~, which represent
the or ~ani~ati.o n of' worki.ug· people, are. your cbie-f ageney iu hrio_
ging
about rms-ult .- ·. ·-'- A... Yes, ~Jr; I th.ink that through tbH trade. organiza"'"
tious and tbe Knighu of .L abor, p-r opei·ly ·h s.o,Ued,. pnbli,c eutiment can
be ,de·,• ..lo-ped i u ·ia,. or of 1oany of the .e pr,opo8itio us. , ,. ·e all ha ,Te OlU"
ideas, a -d I may ent rtaiu som.e t'hat a praut1eal te :t mig'bt up~t
altogether; set l think I refloot v,ery strongly t·be seut1men.t of DlOijt of
..
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th~ m-e n w·h.o are associated with m.e and vfho h.a~·e been. in thi . ruo,,e ..
ment ·£or ru·a nv 1,e ars, .a nd wh ·n we .. ge legi la.tion io tbeiuteres:t of ·tbe
people ,ve expect to have the supr.ort -of the peupl,e. iu whose behalf we
labor, aud as the labor· rno,, -ement aims to ,e dueate tb.e. masses it should
be eucoumged in e,. erv way ·poss.ible inste.ad of being· dlsoouraged. I
s.t ated ·ir1 tbe beginning that among m..anufactnrerl3 and among bu.siness, men th ere seems to be .a deep-rooted Jlrejllllice a_g ainst any· effort
that is being made by workingmen" I reoolleet in mJt own. h1: tor) \'ery
ofiteo a man goeN ~tn1ong my eusto mera and says, "· Well,. wb.a·t is Blair
drivin:g at now ·, Be ought to attend to bIS, ,ovrn bnsi·ne ._· '.'·/" T'.be_ im~
p~s.i on is that I · m neglecting my busiue· :: .. The fact :is I am al waJ,s
on ha·n.d an•d atte11ding to 'busin.es ••~ About four or ·fi,7·,e years.ago a mer.
eantih-~-agen-c:y of tbis e.i'ty tried to suppress :m-e, ·. -.hether It was. inteB•
·tional'.or not I do not kno1';:- by ex·h ibiting •· tatem-e nt.abont my·efthrt&
WH1I sayi.ng, '' .M r. Blair is a mau who is, a promi,ueut m,an in. · he· labor
moye· e. t ..»· I saw thi . report by· oue of the le.a.din.a wercamtile a_g eneiel
four y,e,ars ago,. "M.r. Blair i,a a m.a.n .~ho- i .prominent in t -b e Jaibor .mo,.,e,..
1ne~·t , n ·-.glects l1is busioe~s, and it suffers consider.ably on ae.oount of bis
aci_ ivity in the ·movement .;:" and it ,,ouud ·0,p l,,y saying that they· did
not cousid@r I wa a safe mao t.o ·t rust. At, the same. time I never
as.k.ed auy· one for a dolla . k worth of er-e dit fr-om tlH! ,da.v I 1
s tarted. to
the prese:n·t.. 'fbts. only indicates b.o w d i.p .a 1>rejndice exi .ts and ·b ow
qoick. · ·ople assum - ceTtain thiug,s., tba·. refer to, a ma·n',s-conduct and
action which are not, tme-. If that agency 1\"'0111.d harl'. e ta'ken any JJains
th.e'l eoald hav·e found 011t from lD!f ne·i ghbors. t·h at I am alwavs in m"V
shop and 1 am always a·t tend.ingt:.o business; and. perhaps I ijl}eod
--, -o
-- d·ays 10.a
r y ear,,some ti. mes -teu alt·
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·• . away
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. . "' b. us1ness,,
,-_.- ,-----,or
_·\'"e
_. oge
d·i stn·b ote,l tb11oog·h the y,e ar, i.n th i.s n10,-em. .u t ; o.ud when I leave I
lea_.,..e my busio.e -, ~- such s1hape that . am ha.rdJ'y mussed. I have a
olft.tis o~ me ·, with one or two -' xceptio.os, that wo,r k b,arder- wh ·,n I a·m
.away than ·w·beu lam around1 l simply Hlake ·t his statement to show
how tloop-rooted a prejudice ,e -ists :in. the co·1umu.nity ; and so:metimes it
is done with a motive, too, to s.trii"ke down a .man · -·ho 1s aiming to or~
ganize a se.n timent that tbe:r,, ·i n some way, do ·n ot care to recogni.ze o,r
appreeia,te~ While I kad a prettJ" hard s'tru,rgle to, Hft 1uy.self np, con-sidering· tbe-competition and my .auxie~y to treat men ,,·tri ·t lJ in acco fd .··n ee with. m3,. vie . s.. To ha.Ye an 31!,enC.J" circu.l ate lies about me m,ade me
feel pmtt,y bad at lbe time, but I ba,;t, m,.an.ag-ed to li've through it1 -aa,4.
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76
BB.LATIO·NS BETWEEN LABOR AllD OAP·I·TAL.
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I ean .say··now ·tha't I am the second Iaigest manufac,to.r-e:r in. ibis town.
1
in my line, anr_ I had all that~ oo~bat., . .
.
.
Q:." Yon •employ ,oo men, [ think you said · •- A. Some 6U • ~
LADD TAXES AND BJRN'TS.
1
EDWARD KING· recalled~
By· the C11AIRXA.N:
,.
Ques,t"on. I think you were asked to prepare a·o answer to a certain
question. What \\ras the point !-Anis. :er. It ·r lated to the land q·n.estion. I •_ ·as asked if a nnifi.ed tax on land ·w unld not, 001Bpel tb.e producer of 'food to pay all the taxes.. That,, · belie·v e, waa the que tton
put ·t o me. by one-of the me·m bers of ·the eommitt -~ll!
_
.
Q:" Which m,e mber; ,do you recoll,ect --A. I tbiuk it was, Senalo·:r
Georg,e,. '' Is it not -_faet ·t hat the r-eut, w·b ieb is now tbe bea viest ·t ax
,o·o prodnc.en, is for eity lands, miniu.g lands, ·a nd lands nsed for manufac.tures:;, an,I woo'ld mot Jhe appropriati.on. of all ren't -to po.blic oses, re-lieve. ac;tnal. produce.ra of alJ kind ·. . "- 'Tbe question l ·-_ put in the for1n
ofao argum •·nt in fa: or of' llr. Heury Geo1"',!?e's t.be.01~, wbich ·w .a,; being·
attacked at that time, I believe, ·b y .a member of the committee, a wea·k
point in. h·ia _heory· hei.ng 1shown np.. T he gentlen1a _ ·who wrot,e the
qnestio.u. tl . sires m •·, I pre :ume,. to.sa~:. what I th.ink of th.at airgum,e ntwould no-t that be t'he ,ease I From m,y p rsonal point of, .iew I would
say that it would. be the. ease if "t bappoD ,t exasetly a.s descr,i bed, but
it is a question wh.icb I r,e gar,d .as a pnr,ely .rela.tii ,e queBtioo; aud when
I ·was speaking o-t the matt.er be·fore t -e co1B1nittt!e 1 was. ·.tating the
view& that. .I u.n1derstood. to· be held, in(le ·- d that _l know· to1be be1.d,. ren"tl....J<l..
'luf
o· _· 'eor
e,~ 1"'·'t . b..,.
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to,!& ,.;_io:'I;;;.,
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so 1~·.·:tr .as l.. 1,.u ·w aba
accepted by o:rganizecl workingmen w-ith whom I acted, and wa not
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00.g anJ io
~:iv1,"'dHa11 ,:,1ews
or· my own.. mi.,._
.1,uere1or,e I.. .1~ll s11np_
oont·i uue that.. I find tha1t -· . llr~ Geor,g e'' - vie:ws a •: ma,king very rapid
propess; ·that ·in the orgauized bodi,es of labor whi,eb a1~ not rega.rd 00
as stric.t oouservati1 e trades unions the ideas areaecepted witb '\"'ery lit.tie
d'i.scussio n... It ·is a gener:ll ·entimeutsimply, and o widespread is it that
a pub1ic. SJJeaker in. ew ·-.··or:k. Crty-I ba.\"'e fou.nd i't, tile case else.
where-if be l1esi?:ed to staud. well 11rith , .is aodi• qce· at th. ··. st . rt,
ooold. not do 'be te·r than to ~•art witb .a gnotatiou tr0iru :- ,.e nry Geor,ge's
'-'·P ·r o.g ress. and Poverty." . am n. o·t prepar~. to ,s tate t at t.be ,aooe1Jta;,;
ti,on is ba ed upon a t~.o~ougb untl ·-~tandi.n.,g a.nd. .study of 'th ._book ;
but I d.o 1nean to sa:y th.at t11.e o:rgau.iz·tt1011 ~f the labor· mo,, . ._ men~t, iu.
the broad sense wb.1ch. 1t has now as umed., 1s v ery mo.ch all@c'l:ed by·
tbe feeli.ug - and opio.i.o:ns of a larg-e body of people io. this. country organized in the form of land J,e ague,s ; tha the ioc.r ease in the . e.r.f'.·. tion
of tbat OJ!'g auization .a11,d the .i'ocrease of the agitation 1s aifectiug a .large
part ,o f th.e Jabor mo :-ement aHtl _
mu~t be -~ keu. accoun.t o·f~ Not o:nly
18 0,, bu·t I find tha't ·1 0 tb.e Jn14dlo clas -··. and in. the oooupa.tioos, not gen ..
er.a lly at,knowled.g ed as labo1ers, the views _o,f .M r. Geor,g e are ~eooiv;a.
ing a more tho,rough we·loom,e than they· are in he stl'iet trad,es unions..
Jus:t let me ~ ·v here that wbe - we s.pea·k. of the .s trict trades un.i,ons
we mean org;;·uizations of Jabo-r which for pu.1-po• es uf ,s.tFata..gem. e-x ..
elude ·no·t on.l.y tbe laud.question ~o·t e· ·~ry q_nes:tioo that is not speci.a·n y
oon· e.cted with som,e. branch of tbe1r labor or tb.eir 1S-p eclal ·i ot.erest a.s a
labor o.nion~ Therefore., the rejection by t\vo bodies -of wo1~kingmeu in
this ,c ountry of w·:h at was ca,Hed _ Jat1d plank, with a resolution. 10. favo·r
,p f jbe la·nd ,qu,estion.,, might lead to mis,Ul)d,erstandi·og 0in tba·t .Dla,tter.~
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
11
JlEt,ATioN·s llEl'WEEN LABOR A1UJ CAPITAL..
·_t is &imply the policy ~fall. well organizool trades nnlo1ts to e, .clnd,e as,
far as pos .ible all questiou upon which t'bere :i s ·o t a thorough under~.taadiog a'Dd so,me d,eci,Bion come to to take-action U'p D ··• Therefore,
for s.t tateg1c reaaons, it might appear that the o ganized ·w orkingmen,
tbe trades-onion 'men of _his coun.-try, were not as m.ueb in fa,vor of 'tlds
id,e a, ·or Be:11.ry George. as the laborers, are.
:ow, :i o , ·u glaud, - -.r ..
Geor_g e's tboories were accept.ed very rapidly and aM, malting ve-ry
great pnlgress, his boo·k being pu.blished at the _prie,e of 9 cents, anil
sell.in like ·h ot cakes in Lond.o-n- Its aeooptauce would be ,ac.cel,e.r ated
by t'he lan.d agitati,ou. in Scotla·nd, wbe,re there ,w·,ere ,so .many ,evi.ctioos,
a·u d quit,e an enthusiasm created on the v-e eysamequ :·, ·tiou asis.,touc1h ed
b_y Mr~Geo-rge'ai book. The. general feelin._g within tbe.laei~ ten y,earsin
BuQ:laud a1oongst the working cla8868~baa bee _ ver:, much in f!iv or, of
such broad remed1e -, and with a socialistic tendency; not socialist·e in
the ,s1>ecd·O_c sen~.of·an)"' party·orga,oized on. a platform., bnt-in. th.e sense
in which. John S:tuart ·-· HI described himself as a sooiali.st,, w·h o, never~
theleMt bel·iev,e s in fb.e value of oompe·t itioo and its power ,a s an. ed.o . .
cator,, and .r egards. the a.,dvocate ,o f any practi.eal form. of socialism as
being .s omewhat in the distance,., b.u:t ,y et always to be kept, in mind an.d.
w,o ,ke<l for,. l -nth ·t s ·. n. e, within.the last ten.years,.iSuch has been the tend n y the- .· . M:r .. Sw.into.n, who w.a.s,on tb". s.tand, has put on reco::ni his
011inions and hui obse:r . ations i - London. When Cwas ·io. London there
was nothi ·g· of the tud e;x:cept o:oe lit.le ba11. in a public-· alley.. way; I
forg~t ·. hat they called themselves, bu.t they were. so very Hmall in
no.tnber an.,d 1So i: si~IifieaHt. that it woul,d fo·rm an o,1'Ject of rid~cule.
for any ·w i~r on the pre . who wa.n,t ed a good su. bj'ect and ·b ad nothing
else to do.. No1w~ I say that to-daJ , aeconling t,o M·r~ ·B winton'H testim,ony and that of·otbers,,a;od wha·t I know, from. other &oorces, there h,as
been a ,·ery :r apid cha"Dge of o,p1n.ion, a very ra:p·i d ,c.uauge in the. point
of ·view, a·u d that must be rookoned. with because; i.t a:lfecta op-inion bere
to a very re:markable degree.. The interna·tioni1l s,p-iri't is,abroad, and
it cannot be )ald . ·t rest_; it h~, gut to be-rook~n~ '"!th.
N0 w,. in r, _lation to th· s pa rt1co lar aspect ,o f' the land q nestion amongst
the ·work·m,en tha:t . assoo:· ate with., I find. that among all ,o f them here,
·w hile D ot prepa.red. t,o go t ·h e length of H -en.ry George's ·oniflcation of
taxation, 'they ,still beli.eve t'ha . som.e modified form of bi -.- d.oc.triue.must
be r,ut in fo.ree.. For instance, .so.me I haTe heard .advoca,t e a.t a meeting that, the principle sb.otild be s·im·ply ,a.pplied to a mnni.ci.pality.,[and
that the city la,n d, the I ·_o d OD w:h ich ·_:uch high :r ent 1~ pai. ; sbould be,
the land tb,a t, .__ b,oold ·be·,c overed b,y an,y such. legislation.. Theo another
'"ie:w :h:as been partially e.xp.res ,ed by Kr~ 'B lair io th.e same s11-1'ri't; tbat
i ', _that there shonl,d be a modiHeation in the direction of :r eli1e ving farms
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or land up t-o a certa'i rl valua '. ion from. taxa·:.·oo,, in t 'h e same s,p iri't i.'o
wltich the E.o.glisb Gover1.1.ment retie, es work.men with wa,gea u.nder ,a
cert~-i'u amount. I ·forget .now wb.at tbe a.mount is, but. the income tax
in Huglau I ~,s1, of ~,, ,0 fo,rce 'b elow a ce.rtaln year.ly iinoo•~ I nev,e r knew
an3 ~of my aeqoaintauoos to pay an1~·iu,eum,e r,-c1x; it di(l not come ,down
our I.e n.·.tlL 111 the same S)lirit .: s tba;t · ha,,,e fuond t'ba-t th t is. a m.o di1iea· ion of Mr· George''.s ,~iew,s which is, favorably received ·; but th.e re is
·no, use eon.eea)ing, t:bie :ftw·t that 't'bose opi11ions. a.r e ma.king very rap·i d
progr,ess,, and 't hat ,s ome nieu who are leaden, and bave responsi.b ility do
no·t d.esire. to plaoo theDisel ,,,es on reeo~d, l>eeause the)· do no~ d.e si~ to
create d·iviaion in the r..4nks of organized labor; b·n t this d esire, which
ia a very wo.1:bhy one., to preserve the contil1'oan.ee and nnrcy of all organizations so far as, they· ,exist, and to a _~id the intruio_n of qnest~~a
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llEtATio .-·s BEf'wEEN 'LABOR AND C.APrfAt.
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of M'r. _ eu.r y George,
orgauizati·o n-1 ~a~. th.at while a good spirit must ·not be allowef;I. to
00il\"e ffH) ])t'~ .OIi S'S to
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tb.e· ~·p read -of those vi.0 'W 8
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· belit~,e a~ .a r~·•..sou-one of th .·· priucipa1 :r eason~-w·by they a.re. so ac•cep ..1hl,t"', according tu a t ·c.t :referr-e,l ·t o h ··re sev ral times~, is that .~
Jnrg f . part of 'th - laud of"' 'the U11ited _- ta.te i , 1m 'iog 1oto tbe. hands of'
·jor(~1~1,~·rs., lt 'is bclJeYed by lar~•e mi.tsses or·the.w,o.r kiu,g class here.,_ bat
t'lie toUo,Tin.1-r ge ·1tlewe11 p~ss -s:... 'tbe ~()Uowiug· .amoun.t . of land. ·tba~
811· ·Ed w11.1·d llt~ed, a u1e1ru her of Pa:rliam _·nt., bolds 2,000,,iOOO acres •O f
1· ·nd in this couut1~y..
,Q. Do J'on , no,t: fhat .......... .:\.. I •lo not .· now· exactly tha·t, bu·t I saw it
iStated in the pnllic 11ress bere, a:nd of course . t.he p·r ess ueirer lies, as
,va ·. said the other dnJ ; :i t ha · l,een eopied i·n England, aud is. acce·p ted
:i:u En,glantl, ~.nd it ir.ertainly· ,vouhl ba\'"·e been contradicted if it were
not tru. . · · Vl'"T,)~ re11u t · ble ~·ng'li.sh m,at,Zazine. oopied the stateme11t
t.bat Bir E,1 war1t ·ieed, ll.i! >.,Ihas .2·,000.,,000 acres. of land ; 'the Dn~.e of
Sontherbind. 400,,000 acres; . ord Donmore 100,000 acres,; Lord. Don..
rav-en 60.,.0 00; ant a gentleroan by· the name of Dalrymp,Je, not a1 foreigner.,. a1nd I believe a lawyer,, is eb,a rg.e d with ,a v,in.g 300';,•000 farnliS
which have tallell to him by forec]o~ur-e and other mean·. in Dak,ota"
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Q. Thriee. bundred thousand m.ust be all the farms there, and 11rob..
ably more..-A~ I understand. that~ .H e. is .uppos . d to be t.•.e Jwges.t
land own.er in the worlll.
Qi It ·m u -t ID •.an , nrf:-~ce suftic:ieut to :n1a ~e 300,,0oo farms, becau.s e. it
i.s a question wbetber there are a,s mau,y as300,000peopl.e in '. tt·k.ota, ·men,
omen, aud ohild.r en . - A.. Tbese t·orec~osories.happ~n when people bav·e
left the land.,, ·. ud the 1mpr0Yed land fa lls into tbe. bands of · om,e body
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ge.t ·i t.
Q~ lt, would. be \"·e ry diffieult, to ·_l lpJiose 300,000 fa-rm s. laa,d gone over
to the ,sheri'fts 't·o be sold-.A. If ·i t. is an -rror ·i t should be co,r ree·ted..
Q.. The nnmber stated woultl b $everal fuFrns, for ever,· mau who bas
bee tbere with a family. It is doubtful ,vbe.ther tbe:v have 300,000
people in Dako~~,, iu •·l udh.1g m _n, ·,vo,n1eu, a.nd cbildre'D. I believe th~)"
ulai.m 350,000 people in Dakota. Do yon k:·~ow ·wb.e re this Mr. Dalrynipl: liv~ ,_ · . No. I Ct-"rta.-inlJ{ ,vou.Jd u·ke to fi.nd ou.t rn~r -elf.
Q . He must lr . , prnmiueu : real-estat l ·wye·r .. l . bould be glad to
have him brought JH hera.-A- k11ow 1 have be.arc.I .his. name held up
to, execratio.n ill man,. .11laces, and. so rnany· times, that be ·. -.oold. n.ot, ·ftae I
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oom.t ortable.
Q. The.re ha-s b .en testi n.o ny here in ·r.e gard to a Dalcymple bo■1anza
ill rm in Da t.. ot.a o· · Mi r.i nesotc • 1\1 r.. !ttnot),~ te .ti fi@d i 1~ganl to it.A. It i ,q,Hite J)mbable that b has .a equired this, J•ropertv, and .b as acqu.iretl wbat ori •~'i11al :ty· 1· se1mrate !arms, simpJs· w11ki11.g · one, large
whole,. ale firru1i.ng btu~ine ·. s o'f it~
Q. ·i t is a great. IH'i t·: k,e, of cn.t1-r~ . - .A. Tl1,e s.imple fact is fha.t when
state1n,ent . ucb as tbt!se, ,Yhetll er tbt~,Y a:oo true or false, are made, they
ar,. b~H t ,•· d.
Q . Do J~ll. tllink that. th las 8t _te1n,en is belie ed ·t ~A. Oh; yes;.
t11e ,g entle 1.e·1 ,vho to1·l l m•e belie,·td it very· moeh; thought he •COald
p ro,. ,·e it, t o.
·Qm1. r·bl~· i~ abl<:, to in 0(1 nee the Jlroof, ,ve Rhnll be, glad to receive. i~-A - - he [m llOrt· 1nce of' the s t,:1 t m,en t i·~ tb u~~ e · I · · • •ialJy rit-g-c1rdin g tb e
foreiga: clu . ij of wbom i't i, berev·e d; no• n ..fnta.tion has lieP.n made o.f
these stat,-:rments pnbhclf, uul '\Fhc•n Hn,r thin,g o.f l:la,~ 't .- iud ;l'0't$ a.broad
it- ·i s '1Dlli-t,l'tI a Il U'\'l'l·r t II ti 11>• t g~ ot· t b o U 11·itt ,~ I Sta. teN ; it is ,cop1ed. i u. Europe,
,; lnd. it h~iH. its. , ~
·fft·ct, t~ d~t o 1~ t rtU:' . Tb~ 'h1. O-t 11 t~ of t~,rei ~o ca:p1.tal on
corpor.itiontJ. in a1.uerica au tl 011 la.u,l is one of' the featurett, one of tile
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points.,. in ·whic ·. agitation mainly dw·~lls on the ~and ques.tion ·i~ ·t his
country, and sueeessn~Jly. I do, not think it need.s m,u ch spe.3kin~· o·n
m.Y pa·r~ to s,bow how in t:he presen:t 1
State of o·pinio,n an,d the oond.itiou
of tb,e 1a·bori1mg ela - al'I over, .a·n agitation. of t'be ·1and .qnes.tion ·w bich
n ·tilize - facts like 'tbese or· statements ..ucb as, these.' 'iti ap,t to tnake very
great progress, indeed, antl to amu.s e that kiud of sentiment,which.
D•eceuaey fo•.r the adoption of any dis:t inct views on a. ques;tio·n lik~ the
Jand que ._ tio:n.. .A s for tlae •COITectuess •of the1e statements of'cot1rse I
h.a ,. ·e no knowJ edge myself. I si·m ply te · ti(,.. that t · . y are widely believ·ed, that fhey are reitemt'ed ov,e r and over .agaio, ·week after week,,
and. mouth after m.o o·t b.
Q,. l>o . ou not thi.uk th ·t tbose wb.o make the statements and ihose
·who reiterate them ,ougllt to tak,e some pains to verify 'the1u !-A. Y'e s.;
1.shonl,d .thi'Dk so; bt1t f·bey are tmined in the habi'ts -of poHtical agita ..
tion, and. up ·t,o this period them has been , ..,e~y little oonseien.ce o,n ,s,uch
m.a ters,. Io. a-,g ita·tio11 ib po1 itics. the people are im'ltat.iug all 1·be time.
Our greatest. ·t rooble in organizing · be working classes i ·. 10 'b reak.them
oft~ tbe·i r bad h3btts I: arn.ed i u poli tica:I agitation.. Of course. hobl tba't.
the labor mo . eme.nt is mot• responsible for a·oythiug tbey eatch. like a,
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disease.
Q~ Why do yon. &a~. that yon do not hold men who .are ,concerned in
the labor move·ment .r esponsible for statem.e:nts tbey D1ake like other
people!
llt. .\"'e heen~herei and they seem to be a ·. intelligent-yon
aJlpear to be a ·. intelligent a man as any o-ne who ·bas been on the ,s tand.;
and do .,·ou not bo,l d u1en responsible. for anyt.bing you assert as a .
rhe·• ··
.faett-A" ,Qh~ I never· wa. , in polities in this, etJn·ntr~...
Q.. You. ·t hink an)·body w·b o lias been in politlcs and dews tbat tb.in.g
is not re.~pous.i blet-A.. I believe the in·Oue·nce of political life iu this
C!ountry has a most, c•irrupti.n,: effect o,n the moral e.ba-raeter of all men
enor-a,gi d "n -j;t,, and. wbet·e · a good mao. is i.n it .bis reputation. is ntilized
b·\t a b.nndred villains and tr-diled upon, an.d I say i~ ·t he labor mol"e·m.ent
w , ba,..,e tbc. greatest struggle to an.l:agonize habi'ls or·,e xaggeration:,
gro.•·. ex.ager,galion.
Q. Do yolt f, ud a·oy tendency a1Dong those w·h o lead the mo.vt!ment
to ~rreet fbat babit in their own cases I-A. Un.doubtedly.
Q. Thtin the folks ·wh.o· m_·k ..· these statements 3Dd repea.t 'them, OH
,-.out.· 01 'U theory, shoold take ,some pains to verify th.em, ,should. they
uut 1-A.. . ·. ndoltbtedJ_. ,.
,Q.. ]Jo the .lea,d er- in the Jabor movem,e nt gi',. e cnrre·ncy to tllese
statem1ents w·ith.out tak.ing auy paius to ascertain whether 't e:y are
true or ,o t f......... .• ~o.
Q. Do not your followers belie·ve in their- leaders ..-A. Not ent.irely·.
Q. .·_ 113· :s hould 'tbeJ" not ·-- .A " .B eeause the .· ool,d tbrow .aso~ea.lled
leader o·,~e r in. a week.
Q. Would-tbe3· tbrow o,~-er a leader who sbould try to venfv t,hese
sta e1ueuts anti 1ay th y were fillse if the ·. ·. -eref-A. If be WP·r e .a ble
to Jlro,~e it.
Q.. Do you mean that tbe:r believe the statements be ·m akes, au.d if
they are e;ta.f!'ge·:r ations the~· b .lie :· . the .··x:ag,gerationa too,. bot tbey
\\"Oold not ·beli:e·ve him i.f be ade. a ,c ontrary iSta'temen.t 1-=-A.. U ndonbt ..
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Q~ They .are inclined to beli e,,,e exaggerations ,·~ A. If th "y go witll
their f,eeli.u,gs. For i stance, yOlt ba~c au int : 0 . · ·· a1lti1H1t.'hl Ju~:t 110w
abroa,l on th.i -_ · latu1 question. 1 au1 ou·Jy tet.tiiy irig to the .· ·i~t,euoo of
a •os·t i.u tense au t'i patb 1,,
Q., An,d tendenci,e11 .o f ·mi:ud.-A. Yes, sir; as I find them. I find.
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80
RELATIONS BETWEEN. LABOR ilID 0 ..APIT~
~hat facts like these a;m repeated in magazines of such reputation. a . t'he
N ortb Ameriean Revi.e·w~
Q~ Was that. statement i.o regard to M.r .. Dalrymple in the Nurtb
American Re·v iew -A. Nottbat, but similar tacts which at ·:6.rs't, glaoee
I would :m yself regard as gross exa_
ggeratione. I sboold have ·m make
very· strict in,quicy befo·re I would a . .. rt th. . m as. facts, bat then what I
claim is that men wbo are sn.ppo ·ed to be )eadin,g · men i.n ·t he l.abtlr
·m,ovemen·t have n.o t the time to make the in.ves. igati.on necessar ·· to fin.d
out 'tha:t t.his 1S ir Edwarid Reed, l\
does uot ·possess two m1illion
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acres of land.
Q.. It might be vecy difficult -for th ·m to learn. that was not the ca .· ,
and tb.e assertion does. not see·m to be ·-0 unreason.a·ble. I am only
speaki.og of the Dalrymple. assert.ion w·.b. ~ ch a ·. ems to be on:e o,. its own
kind a.lto_g ether:. -A. And he being a na,t i.v,e, of ooors .· t'b.e objection to
his posses,· ing so m.u,ch. ]and is not so great.
spea· . of it simply as au
example of ·t b,e e,o:n centration. of' power and wealth ·.·n•d sw ·JJ.owi,n g up
the. Janel, tbe land. bein,r rega!ded as tb,e .source ~f _all oor su·bsistenee.
If I were.to rea.d to yon the platform of the Socialisti,e ·L abor ,c enter, the
platfo·n n of' the Kn·i ghts of' Laibo·r, and. th.e plat.form of the Coolral
Labor nion, yo . ,· ,ould nn.d th.at th.e re :is a recognition of th .· doctrine,
fnndamentally a doctrine, that the,Gov·e roment or tbe people, the whole
_people, own the land.. That is an idea which ma .· be safely said to be
accepted very wid.e ly..
Q.. ···ou. may· pu·t those platform.s in erv1dence, if ·you please,. without
reading· ·t bem.-A. · ere is a cop,y of the Socialistic Labor Center's
pla. form..
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Q. I think. th~ t ·was gi·. en. us.~Ai .A u.d I 'think the pl atform. of tbe
KnightB, o.f Labor was.put i.n evidence 'b y M . McClelland.. I do ,1, o,t
think. ;,; . on 'ba-:,,.e that of· ·he Oentra.l Labor Union, bu·t , you are to h .·_ ve
the seeretacy befo:r .•yon, llr. : .a ttbew ·.·, agoim ~ Q" You: ec'lin go on wi•·h · our 1S_a.tement.-A. In r-e]ation t-0 fhe labor
movement, and. the ·p ress, and the- pulpit, I ave al.read.. stated that
the ·middle classes are now falling in with the •__ n i-monopoly- mo em.ent.,
and that very ·1ar,g e class of ideas._ is, fiodi ug great aoee1>'lianoo amo.nggt
tbe middl,e cla,ssest Qu.ite recently a labor p_aiper was started,. and it
was asserted by the ed.i tor of that paper in this •C itiY th.at the paper vta .
1e upported not by ·the trades un:io:11ists aud the so-,ealled ,vorki.ogm ·n so
·moeh as by tJrofe:sional ·_nd middle-cl.as·": p ·opl , Tb. · pa.1>eratl,·oea;t«l
very large'l y th~ views of . , enrj,. ,G ,e ~r.a e, and gave gr,e at ·p ro·m inenoo to
the land question, a.n.d to tile atta,e k u.pom t-be power ,of concentrated
wealth, 10.onopolies, &c. · bis ba-, a ·v·e ry great-encottmging e· ·ect upon.
·t h · strict labor movement, and has to be takeu account of~ The stri.,t'tl.)'"
IrL·b m,ot""emen.t iu this.con try is, also of t·he same ki11tl. It trains man
·i·n. orga.uiz: tion; tra: n: •! them to habits of discipline anti by the. 10,g ic
imp1i~d 1n _·he, prin.cirtles . bi,ch. are accepted bsr res_
pec:tal>le. ·11eo11lo and.
JHtople w·bo, are. re arded as sober-•miu.d.e d people·, as t h 1niddle classes.
and proi ssi.ous, · enerallJ are rega1.ded by tbc working cla : es,, there
will be anti ·t here. ); a ver:y grea t d i. ,_p osition now am.,oug-:t :peotll,e who
h1a,'e beltl back from any ·_· ·sooiation · ith those broad,e r an.d dce:1Jer
gnestions---qu'ite a clispositiun no to favor 'ben1 :aud t.aike part in the
mo,~en ent. That, of con~ e,, ha to b t k, n ,ccouut of also in dealing
·w.ith t.he labor m.ove1n · ut, strictly ··o call.e.d .
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RELA·' rIONS OF' T'H E Plt,E SS · 0 L A.DOK llOVEMEN S.
The rela .i.on of tbe ptt,ss to the la.b ar 1uovemeot of uoor · e lS a ·. ery·
bitter· one. The, la.boriug elasies, as ·bas beeu al:reacly testified here,
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RlltA!l'IOtf8 BBTWE,E B' LA.BOB A.HD CAPITAL.
have great antipathy·to the newspapers, and not onlythose of N~w-¥ork
interrogat,e d several of 'tbose who w,ere present at 'the la.bor
-co:u·feren.,oo in the ci.t., here to see if t'he same ;s p·iri was _i·o. tb.e otbei:
cities,. and I fonnd it was. tb.e very sa 111e. Tbe view that the CO'l l'n8 of
tbe press is deliberately the resu _t ,of purchase m,on.~y . I believe myself
to be, .a,n ,e.xaggeratiou, and I think also that :i t is ·p erh.a ps. an exag_g er...
.ated form of 'that ,opinion. The general! bebe-f is that, it is, the .result of
prejudice, tbat the. i.o terest8 of new,s_
p aper proprietors are a_g ainst favor....1 f
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iug a.n,J k tUlJl
o orgau1zatJ.on
wh"'.1011
may pu·t ·th
·. :-1 e·m inth.·.e sa:me,PI.ace some
of tbese da;ye as it plaoe.s some of the~: ,- anufootoreE . and_e -mploJi 6rs who
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aro not i th-e ewspaper bnsiuess.
among the workiug classes that you sh.oold not, believe anytb.ing yo n
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trnthf-uln.ess, or literary m.e a i- one of the phases, of the labor mo,-eme·n t
that I co111sitler very ·re. -arkabJe iodeed. Th.e feeling is, away beyond
what ,could be a.ccot111ted for, ·b~t a11,·tllin.,:t,w ,e lse than verv
ros , cases, of
._., _ " --:- g:ge
· · 1,,a:liDU C380S
of- ~' o·ppo
audc- th-e-·
m"'1sre·pfti6Du·u•,a~t1'"o··n a-nd '!l"'l'Ary
'I:._-· "" e
'~
. ''' ' · sition
laboring men transfer a ,··t ale of J"eeling hieb belon1,,1); to a pas,t , peri.o d
of newspaper attack to the prese:nt.. I belie.v,e.'that at present t•e :newspa1rer press,, as it has for' 1SOD1e time back, is 't aking qu"te an advanced
Jtosition ou the labor question, and that it is onl_y in so~e sigual ,eases of
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111isundentauding or mi, ,re,pre ·. · ,n u tion. in the press, tha·t the working
cl ass.ef! wiJI I esolv·e to, boyeot a newspaper, as they freqn-ently do.
Q .. What is done w'ben they hoyoot ,a ne,wspa1Mr !-A. Tiley organ1ize
,c ommittee.s ·i n every district of ·t he ci.ty" exercise their iuft11ence a.s pur,chasers 11:'pon news stands-the men 'Who own n,e\\;S stands an,d they
also ,resolve not to purobase suc'h papers as are bo.Jl eott ed, 1Jo t :re...c;olv :
to read tlH!:m without pu.rebas.ing, them.., lt is, bel1.el"cd, I know ·b y t,be
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__ __ they
_
_ _ . b'
_ r.ongll.'t
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wurkin
"men
in 't_b1s. ,01.t y..,. that
have.
ne\v
.-_p·ap·. e-r_ to ter
, .- 1_.
once or twice ·b y that p,rooess ;. that is, tbey ba, e brou)!ht tl1,e m froH1
blaekgn.a nlio.g them. in t.h.e most disgraceful sud rid"cotoos ·w,a a,ron,n d
to a state ,o r mind. wber,e they e,,.ideutly fi . bed for their pennies or
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tbci_r iufloence, whi,c'be,..,er it ,v~s,, aud that stat-e. of·min,d amo-ugst the
wnr.k ing ela:s s causes tbe·m, of conrse, to- ta'ke very strong ,01•position
now aa,I ag ··.io aga.iust the 1>re s.. · t is \'."' ery n -tural that the p,ress
shoul,d ad.opt th.e sao1,e pirit; ·i t is quite natural that th@.J sboold. be,
irritated bJ what theJ · r -ganl tLS ,a ,g ro s n1isre1:,resen'ta tio · of the case ;
but I say t.b at it i.s a 1,n ost unbea/ltbv state. of· ·t:hin_g,s that a pow,e r such
as ·t he y,·ress should be beli,e , ed b~l· the ·w,orki."ng cl888.e8 t-0 be warring
,vitb tb e1n aud a ~aios.t t)1cir i nte,1~stsjj,
Q,. To \vhat extent is tile labor rnove1oeu, de.\i .•_loping 'a p-ress of its
own _-A~ Oue 11 · ,w,. 1nt1Jet' lost J',000 s11bscribers,.
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Q'~ Is that ti well-au benticatetl statt1"11.1ent _ A. I think it co,mes from
oue of t·be men who di(l it, a.ud I tbiuk thait is p retty good :au.t,hon·t)'"'"
Q. Ba __ ,~o r i.n to,r mantan11,"' objoo:tio:n to the paper being tneutioned ! 1
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AJ ~~-:~: ;~;:J !a~!!~1~tJh~ 1s:::.l!fu!~;:,!~t~ ~=;!e~~:t
lost. tile 2 ,,000, and tlle ~~aHiza'tio~ of a sooialistic-nem,p aper might,
ne,, er ha~,e taken J>laoo if there bid 'been al dece.n t, ·wh ··:t one might
ea1l a, strategio, reeognitioo, of tbc la'l,or movement.. I. ba,,.e myself had
. -eTy great ditllcolty iu ecpin,g a, motlei·ate tone and holcling a Oh.ristian
state ,of f . J1ug reg _nling newspapers. The _general mistake is t ·h at i't
su.pposed that,tbe 't hlugi. . ,d onefro'ln m_Uee,. whereas I belie·v·e that it is,
ec'\used bJ the exigoncu~s of space, which is au importan't thing
a,
aewspaper,; by the. fact also that reporter,s. s.ometim,e s 1n.aik,e out as] lo:ng
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on
a,·r eport as po ·sible in the hope that :i.t,may be.:accepted, and their ·pay
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82
for a ,d.ay',B labor ,··. a _ ·' be sometbi.n .~ tit ct n·t ; but '" tb.e. fi ud w·ith tl1e blue
pencil" who ·1tr,es,1d!es in ·nearl:r e,,~·r)~ue,v- pafl l' office c11tH it do,t_H co,nul ·r,a b'l y,, a.ud uot. be i 1g pres ·ut on the o,·ca sio11 \\."bt'n 1h ~n tunt uts
are .r eporlecl,. eanu ot be e~ ])ec.tl!tl to kno,,- the :z,eneral d 1-ift of ,,~bat_a
speaker maJ Jllave, l,eeH Na,:111 ·r, a11d wJ1t."!11 tlte abbrt-,-iat-...d re11ort of ·tl1@
:reporter has b1::en b a.ud ed in. u. th fiend" u a tn ra] l]f mu k ~8 •o 1n e 1--0.■s
wheu he l'Niuces. tluit to n t-1tUI le~s co:nJ:ltils ~,. I 'btfHt-\.~e, ·howe,~er, that
there i ~ a -eeru1 in ele.' ·Deu t of DJl pm,i1ri.i·•u in t b· · p • ~ s,, a 11, l it eo1ne . from n
the busine •s, 1,art of th~ co1H!~r11.. The 'iuflo~ nee. of .~ pit;d u1•ou the.
foorfh ·state I 1•,e aard as 'm,o . t oorrur.• t aud flttal, aud a tbin_g \'"ery 01ucb
to be rt' gret t · ,I. be c4:1 u.·e '\\ h ··n. ) ou 1~cogn i1.ze· 't IIe ·t act th at 'tI1,~ ·· infllut"bef!I
ha -e uo · tba t hold they ouce hall on th · tb1'1u.U11·10 H ot · the °'I •i,ui,,oot1_o,f
the ];te0'1Jle, u11tl ,vheu :fon remnemlwr th-" t tbe p·n1ss -h~. ra·1iidlJ.· takir,ig
tb.e place nf ,,.. bat th~ pol1,it OHL~ t).Hl, I think 1t 1s. .a 1uatt ~rut· ·, -er. · ,g~J.,~e
t,011cern ·t but ar1:y 1arge bodJ· ol" the p ~uple ~il1uul.d lo --e r~i' h in the \"l'nlCit,) ;
and jiu tice of a po,ver hke the 1n-ess~
Q. To ~~h.u. e·,x:teut ha la-b or, a [Jre 'Sot" its o,,,n. and. \ that ts the. t,e.ntlenc_y :in J\igard to its p·r o,:·idiuJ.? itself " ~itb ori.c1u1s f- ~-. The 'leud.1;,1ncy
·i:.i · hat- tbe.y 1u11,s t du it1 The fact is that t)L J' cnnn.ot ,tlo it to: u,T
J d.-e ceut,
~xten·t.. It den:uu1ds, uol\ co-01> rati,on.. ·. ·. t one ti n1 . it;woo Id liit\"''e bttH
flOssible tcH a single man \1 ell known iu ·' he ·1abt1r m:o,,-e1:u~·n t 80 to be
beftiended b)' some bene.,,ult nt ffll,J>italist a,s to be fur11i~.h.ecl .· itb fau1d,s
tor startiug ..nch ane . sp~,p~r; i-~ might have been ffoa.ted, an,l it u1igh·-;
ha \. .e sueseeed,e d ; but. - .·' ven I 11ews,111tipe s ha ,~e been start,e d anti. stolen,,
a't ,least fhat is l\f'hat the \\"Ork iH_g clitss, who ,. ,tarted t he. m. bel iev ..., and
tbe. ten,de1 c~y now : .Jnongs;t, the p· Opie is to be]i . \r,_ •. that all t,tlOI IS ill tha,
. ay o,gt, ·be failures, exce:p t co 01-lerati·,te,,.ltuder < la'\V which Jlre,,,t-nt.s,
·. 'be- ca11tore of the pa·pe·r b~f the sliare,hold~rs, au,l prc,bibits a·n y p -.rsou
from ·h a, iu ~ 111:ore t bcin 011e 1share1, & •• Such
law is held a · guar~
an teeing that if i.n a co operati,~e w~ _y any body of ,,~o,■king 1-•·ople.. ;.,an
start a new~1.mper _nd keep, it gouig for a certaiu len ,th. of time, tht\\
bel1ele it ,-_ i11I succeed; but unfortunately th '. . · cannot k ~ep 'i t goin·g
for tha·t rjertai.n l.e·ugth o,f ti 1ne · _· 1· h the exee_p -ion of on.,e or t o ,·ery
signal c:·ses,. Tb.e Vol .s-Zeitnng, of COllffl ~., ap·peals to ,a Sp .· eial natioum
alit,y ; i1· iK J,lrinted in a fo'l~ei.~ u taugna.ge, aHd that nat1011iahty are ,dis-tingnished t~o'l~ their cob·. -·i,,,ene ~s, distiu gui8bed for fbei r dispos.i tiou to
gather tog~th·· r and hold tog~tber; aud ·. orkingm..n who d es,i're a la.b or
uew··. 1•t.•11t".r u,ekno,v1edg:e. t'hat th~y do not~-···· bow 1t, i~ ··. ob~ got. w ·hen
you u1eHtiou t · e 11.~cess of the Volk,s ~Zeitung to 't ·e·m the . s .- · te ~ - its
ea.use th~, : the_parp r hatl peculiar ~ircumstance · i ·i ts. ·s ta· t, and. also
~.. ))@CU
' ""·"')'J~lr
~, ..c1,
·'" rcu fflSif. an.ce~
· · R lD
. . f·~
.,. ··.· Ot· I'"' t--g, I-:-.,.,·;'.
,·,t~llDtru.
. ~ . .i'lo-a,l
N
·' . I. 'b. ·.,·._
e'· h as
al-Or
u.,IDg llS
.1.. OW
liu.v,e be.roud question that the. working class believe they mo·~t ba1 -e
pape~, of t IH~I r o ,_ n..
.,
Q~ Ttt· \\"hat exteht ba,ve tbe. 11a.p r ·. oif th···r o,vn 1-A. I 'ba:,~,e not
the. t _· i ·tics aH<l an1. not ve· y wen J,M>t.;.ted.. A ge:nt'I .111ao "~ho i's oo,,n
n~tecl witlJ th ·volk:s-Ztaituu_g ijtates, that th r-e a:--e. tbirty . :6,,.·e 1•.1pers
~,It OJ;l!'t lu~r that w ~\~l be r, . ga.n led as wurk i Hgm eu ",i j ).ta IH~Fs i u t;b 18. con.utr:,\' J.t ~,s a •·aru1,,le, of tho di:~'J)O ·itiou to frow11. ou aoy efltu·t ,e x0011t a
~~o-01>et'"ati-re ~tfo1·t "11 .he 'De,vspa11e, litu?.
Q;, 11~l\"'!~ tbe,~ an\~ da.ily 11ew·rs1,ap(li•r s ,. A, Tbe Volk~Zeitu·ng 1.8. 3
claUJ pa1,er~ ,H Chie~~o I tbiuk there ore, one o,r t\\~o daHi t and in
~ai 11 t J.,ouis thl~·r e ttre se,-eral dHil~t" pa11er .
(~., Out~ of those ·11a Jle'r · i.1. ,~e n1s i · in the Ger1nan langaage.-A. Ye~i•
Q'~- Are tbef\e a.uy Bngliah tla.-il.iies.~-A. I a·1n not a\,·ar-e of an~· m'\ ,s elfj.
Qt Ua.n your ir.ieod Rtate I-A~ I ana told tbere is;; the Albany ·onion,
also the . -tit:a~Da Uy ~-.~e,ss.
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83,
RELATIONS, BETWEEN , A.BOB .A.ND CAPITAL..
.
koow anything of t-he extent of the dai'ly circulatiou of
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·Q. D 0 yon
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,au\ o't" ·rh~n1 ,.-A. Tb- Vol'lt•··.Zeitu11~,~ I a:m told., ha .- 30,0mt-- 'th" bil:ad l1•bin 'l. aKt·blat, bas. 2!,000; tlu~ ·U hica1go A ·rl: -·it er Zeit:n11g 20,,000.,
Q~ These~· r,e iH the Ger111a.u language !-A. Yes, sir·.
_
('-., fl· ,,e t be t.rat Ie:s n nion s organs . a :r n le. f---A. Tbere is s tr.Jdes
nnion org<-111 iu .Pa.te; .~0n, JHintt~d u1 ·n ,lisb, There a.., e g~ t man ,
\\rorkh1gHn~u who llo not take an3 s'too·k i.u it.. s, HI 1t must be a -·
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tn~. ~-~o - e a11 orgau·o1 tr~1.de:.s nnion:i ,,n of a certain pllase of opinion.
Q. Witl.t the ,e xeep· iou of th,· 1,up·~ Wt"· 11·ioned, I su11po n1os of
th • remaiu_i:ng thirty= '"·,,,e are in the E,ugU b htoguaie.-.A. Th _ Gerllaan·· (Utt '\ · ~st are ,~~r,y Ktroug., and I ·t bni1k ,·ou. win find t;ha the·
1
~n · 'Ji . l1 ~s1i..•aki11~· J>3l)f'rs a1··- ini th · minorits·, antl hat a c ·:s when~ be··.
are able to hold up t tlaily is av :ry· rare ca . indeed. It muis b " ap
J>are u t t h~ t the Vfo1·k iLng c] · s~e, ~ 1\~a Ht t b · 11 -w ti, and :rou ca ·1c1 not fi·n d th u
nev.•-. in a JnlJMl r jui~ sta~tt l is not ~in.~J· 'to get into ·t he Asssoc.iat,r d
Prt;a ·•,~,a:~ has.bee·n t,e:sti'ti:etl b~re al:~adJ·.. · · bU ·the working classes "·aut
their trad O(lws, want a, labor paper, till the,· bave a burniu,g tJ.e,..n-e
to k nu,, ,,~II u · has lta-11pe11 .I con nee· ed ,-··i th otb .· . r a.ffn iri b .sitl . s trc1tles
otta1rs, .u,1td ,, or -ingm n cunnot be. oonuted u1,on as wiUing to tluo
O\"'er their interest .h1 ev·e rstldug else tu•r tt.e sake of a trad~ ·1)aJl -r11, The
wa11t t,r ·.·.,a11,1tal suf6.c ient to a1l\'"'e,r tise a dailJ' labor ·1 >a~r is ·t he po.int ~t
" ' h i,eh 't la e ~ttbrt g·e neralli- ta1 I ,.
Ti1en tbe influence. of theotb . r ,r rgan _of publ,;,c opinio11., such. ~1·· .· he
1•ulpit a 11(1 J.ect11re.platform,, litera·t ure, ·m araziue .\., &c. will probti b'I.\ be
\r ·f J great
belie,.: ,e m)~self that in the agit tiou of l~Oent yta1.·s tuel · .
.·¥ere '1et\·
.xt1·i10irdinarv·soeialii
ti.· , ntim ·ots exp·ressed b·.,r- c1 ,_ J'"tnen
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itl1i.11 s,h e la~t five :rear ·!tb ·. •ha-,"·.. beeo w·o r·k s publish · d.,vitb 1snuh ten~
deuci . Dr,; ·a: lauc -, oft bis city,.an Episcopaha . iniuister.,,has, a book on
ct,m:muDi ,·rn and SOf!iahsm; .al.. o .-, ·eber .· e1vton,, anotber· l"!,1liscopalian
1uiniNter.. Dr, llcGl ~fnn, 0 f St!! tr · pbe·11's, h,aH ta . ·u 1,•art iu ·va1·i.ou .· pub~
Jiu mooting,. and prou~ouc~.d .himself a di · iple of Heur~'f Ge<n :b~ out and
on· , ant1 bas exp - ·ed h h tieIf o•n the ln,.bor que ~ tiou in , uclJ ·t way a<·
to en.c<ntrage other cl rg,--m n of l s caliber o far a: 8'tandino- hi, t:be.
c.~h 01·ch i . eon c rn,cd. ; a.nd ther ·. are indi.,cations that a blrg·_ I._ ~c: ion of
tlH~ ,,;,orkiug c]a ·e , ,vb,o ·h a,·· held aloof from or-ian1z d effort."'" a the
labor u10V-t!ltl ut, , . . . ~ sober, ,-.!ry eon . ·:r~ti.tive, r-eligi.ou in n, a -.. ·. uow
b i.11,r inoculate l ; and. t-be 1>heuomeuoai a.ppeured in t · is ci -. · quite re=
.. ntly of cl rg, :1uau apJ)eariug before .a large bodJ" of workio,gmeu aud
1u\.'" iti:o~ tbe.m to go to ch·n reh as be w·. golug to pr -ach. OH the sho.r t&
hour 111,ove.m,e u ; anill b ~·:b imse]f ·hap11enetl to J)Dt in a, w nio th• . evecy
year a a machiui·s - a ti the ~ '.t of· the time a a J}' :eacber, com.b ining
in hi ·. own ,cba11acter the t,vo fuuct-ion •. That _..as. oomm!euteml u11on and
its, exanlple 1nu ~·t be counted Dl>Ob. I believe myself that tho ·mou1ent
tlu~ Jabor 1no,~eu1ent .i its o~gauized coo.ditioo solves the proble,o of'
co-OJ ·ratiou without conipromise, f a·t :·,. solv ._ tb proble10 of 1~eoog·niz1u ~ tb di ·,·reuces of 01 ·inion among · t tbe va1~iou, . sections or t·he
·,-orki g ula·· e.s, arran«-iu.<? so1ne n1et l1od by · bi.ch tbo~e •lio act ua!tr
do agre · 1.pou a.nytbh1g can act npoo that withoo.t beiug ,eompro111i~e I
i.n an,.. oth r re ··p ect, th · re will be a la1·ge .a cce· · ion, 00itl a religiou ele.~
.inen.t will eu .: r :into the moveHHJD':t t bat I regard ot v .rJ.· great , ·aln,.,
altbongh i i' not o .r gard.e d by th \"8 ,t m:a jo:r it ol people ·i n the
labor ove.men·t. I believ•e. tha·.· if you •tlesir,e to a• ,· rbun- fl e real
d.e1>tb and ext ·u·t ot th.· ant.· path,y felt to eapital, the autip~tby to the
upper· cl~~ , HO ea.lled,I and discoote 't ith th ir ,c HditioH,, i ' i , J)er~
hap · ·. tt;); niirrored in its effect upon reii,f,o us organizat-io1• tJu,n in
auy othe:r ·wa.)";;
·he beli.e f amoug~·t many, .m any larg,e. masses. of men
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
w·b o nominally belong to different C•b ristian den.om•inatioos, of tbe
po\ver of' moues· as ~.t corrupting in.dnenee o.pon. th.eir . 0.h urcb is, ve~y
wide. .indeetl. ; and. the _faith in the, I wou]d not say vera,cl.ty, hn·t in
the eoorage of 'tbe belief,, i .. at a v,eTy low e.bb~ I regard that as, of veey
great importance m} sel·t~ altb.oogh it 1s not so .1· . g.a rded by workingmen
generally~
Q. Do you understand that t~a-~extend,s to both Uatholie. aud Protestan.t org uizations · -A. Ye: ·.
Q. In about th . · 1same d ·gr- ·e to each !-A.. ·.- o~
QI .D oes i:r, dominate. 1n one .more than in the o. her ,.- ·A1 I believe the
c'b.arge agc1.i11 ~t the, llethodis't 0ongieg ._tional, .at1 ~ti wbat w,e re once re!.mrd .d as ,1en10 .ratic ·rel·i gious bodies, de10 oeratic form of religious organ i:z ation, i -... t h.a·t t b \, in fl uenee of wea I.th is <lisa ppoi:nting·in i.· .. .r elation
to thost. d • non1iuations,, andt as you mi:ght observ- , there is a great elfort
being unul · by the ·L1ghly· o·r,g auized Uhri .tians, tllllCh a•· the Episcopal
,Chu'l~ch .a:ud. tb ·.·. U.a.t.holic Ul1uruh, to 111.ace hemsel ,res 011 tbe sid.e of the
people. In au Epi.scopalia-n convocati.o o last :r .ar, I think, or the year
betoro l.n!St;, tu ' (_
Juestioll of soc:ialism and th : l(·, bor question was. a ma·t,.
.
. leg1t1mat-e,,
. .
I l telore.
. t 'h6 con, oeation,and... 10
. .- ngIan d,,
teTup fi. ur (I_1~cu~1ou
wh1ett Il~·ur~;r G o.r_g e wen· . o -·e r there, bis gre~ ··t addr,e ss was made befor,a.
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a con.·\"'Ot!Ulton
of E11i~copa]ia.n clerf!J,":rncn.
Q~ A 't " ~hat p1ace ·· - A,., In Londou . .
Q. Do yt,n kuo,v vih .ther it was; a SJ mpat'betie :a udience or otherwi.set-A . I u.nderl'!ta1 d. ~t wa . I unde·rstancl ·t hat :Mr. George was
bighly delightetl ,vith tile recepti.on he met. It ,.·i ght, be that he was
O\",e r _au guine·,
ag .anthor generallJ ar ·- .,
Q. You ha ·_ ·e i1.I your remark , on the1 pre.ss and pu1pit used the ex: ..
pres --iou of'·' labo.r 010, emeHt"' main, t'im ·•. Wba·t is the labo move ..
me.nt ,. I slmoulrl like yon to tl fine i .- as you understand it.-A~ I h lieve · he lnbor Jno, t:m,~n, inclutles all t'bese fo,rces in 1society wh ieh a·r e
first of·~. reli_gious. kind. and w·hich 110.b:Ucly 11Ia.c e tbemt1el, es on reoord
on an occnsi.ons of . · cri i · and combat between labor and eapital as
modi(ying· tbe ·po\Yer of cn1)ital, or s - king to be]J) labor to com ba,t ea.pi.tat~
.
Q T 0 com.llat capitiil in 1 hat was.,. and for what end T'- ,A . For the
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end of obta101ng cou11 omic~ j Uti i.oe.
Q,.. \Vbat du yon ·inean b~y tba;t '. -- A. A .sam11,le o-f t'l1a-t ,viii. be tak-e n
from a. ~ermon pr ·:t.acb· d bJ· thH- ne,· D r. Pullman,. of' tb · U·niver,sa1ist
Cburch i~1. tl1ts ·ity,, on. tl,e t~legraphic strike, · ·bo sh1te1l that the telegraJ,1be1·s' .:trik A "~a;• syu_Jnttliizctl i.n, tlu1t the .:trikei■s were ,s,ymp~tbized
with, by =i bug··. 11u1nb~r ofindt\;iduuJ ca1)italists ·. ·1th wlboro be had taken
th:e t.rouble to ,~1,,a'k (1U1 . i1 g tbe week 'Th··_ ~.ronnd on whi~h.t.beysym ..
pat bi.zed. ,,,i. t Ii t Iu~ st 1.·i k{11 s 1\"' n .., tbat the ,s'trugg l.e of the te legra1>.hers was,
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witb a corr,oraJion, and t.lurt a , iudi,·hlual t~-tnplo.re•r s of labor, a.s manu~
fa ct u •· .~rs, t Ii tlly 1~ ~ ti J"ded th t n 1l-', I re~ a . in ao.otl1 er category al tog,e-ther,
a.nd tht.y :s-v n •1.•u th izl ~ l \\"i't h 't i bo:r ,,TL,~n it wa ·. -cou1 ha.ting the co r•orate
r,o,:r,e r of ,vPait 11, but1th;t·. it ·. _ as a d.itJ'creut m,a tter al.to _. etbe·r ·. ben th~y
l\T ·. r - uni tE'd ~ 1s t'b ey ht.. Id :he 'h •'t c r - t8 of t II e . n1i)lo,y e a.nd the ·. ·,m 111.o yer
as t.b . ~-•1 Ult~.. ·rr hi -. re,.. rend gentlt'tn an stood u 11 on that oocasioo for
i11 st i-c e to the Iabori 11 "". man, tll at he s'hould have a
fai~ da1~5, \\"tl•.A'O fo1 a fair c1a);; '·~ ,vot-k.. ·
·
·w ba· he 1.-egt111,.1ed as
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Q. Aufl_tha~ be ,vas .n ot g ·M ing it n.ow '- A, In the case of the teleg
rapheli the ·r e .~er11ed _
g utl .· men did not state wh -t a fair day's w·a ge
,vas,, and t.be~~ lU! V(lir do.. As a g,~ neral rule they· a·r e \"•e ry careful to
.avoid stating ~,n~~thi.n.g like t.hat, b ... c. use that of cou .·.·e ,vonld plaee
them too detiuitely o.n record; bnt tbeJ~ have ooura.g e en,o ogh to say ·t his
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85
BELATIONS BETWEE'!f L.ABO,B AND C1.AP1TAL,
.
much i'n tbe faee of the ·w :alt.h repres,ented. in their pew , :n d cllu·r r.bes
mainly depenid. on it,, tor they have t,o be rnn now oo b11sine ·pr1nci~
pies; _a t leaa,t so w·e a·r e told. I saJ t . at · be r.onrag· · im·p lied lll a staJ,e-·
meut lik.·· that bJ a c'l erg) 111a11 r .~gard as tJ · ,~ ry ,grieat a1lva( ,e e indeed
upon wha 1nigbt arr, b eu expe,c ted om e tw · ,.ty~tiv,e l " -.ars ago,
Q. , Have the wot 'ik iu,g people a;u ·iw11ressio,n that the.re is mo1'e mo uey
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pu.t into churebe ..·t h· _u .-.._. re 11eed b _·; · m an. into th ·. edi·&.ce··and de .oted
··'
to
' ''ma.in
" . ·t..···~n,· .pn iu' ~' •o.··· .f·. tb·
·',, or-u.1nance.s,
,' . .A i1 "' ' ,'' ' o_
' f "ll"iit..]"1gi
- "'o·u·
·m
- ·1· n1s,
' ,•· ··te,
',' ' ,'· .·. ·t h e.
, .,e
.· ., ad
....
,- re' d"'. t ·.· ere
.A .. 10 f ,couri .· ,I th~· b:av,e that i101n~f! .· ·. ion.. · he 1.UlJ)r ssioo generally, as
I believe in a ·most exagt' .·~ ted d.e goo, i oppo d to ttie ·p o er of w ealth
in the ·m anag ~men,t of c rcbcs.. I belie\"e that in the pre · · ·o t s·t ate of
a...."' ' ~e I~
~·
. "'
aunlT
_1g1ons.
organ1zat·ons
a.1 . n f"'. gr a t_va 'I,u . .
Q. Wba,t propo:rtion of the people · in .
York CitJ, in your jotlgmeD't, at.te11d r ,e Hgimt , r iee on the Sabb·1;tb ·, -A I ha~,e not1the
slightest ide · ·.,
,Q. Of tb wo rking people what prop rt ion !-A,. l ·h ai, .. . 11,ot the sligb'~
e ·t idea.. TII~ workio.g ·1>eopJ,e that are ,acti,. · in the ]a'l10,r · oveme·u t
m, .· y b ..f; _1rly cbarged, ! think,[ with being · -ery bad. cb.n wh attendan.t s.
Q. Why isthat t-A. A .s f.aras Iha:~·e in,~e ,t igated the watte.r , I belie·v e1
it,:i s because th · · e.onside:r t ~ ·t · 110 p,o]pi.t is not free to s,tate the truth
01 th 1u·b or q,ue ·. · ~ ,u .
~
Q.. Do you think there are such a,eeomu1odatio1ls i' ·. the wa4t of houses
a·ot'I 1>·· ws and so, on as ·tbt1'y· d · ire ·,-A. 0 1b, . -, ·. s.
Q.. · · leoty of them -A.. The e ar,e. plent,· of ehuriehes, . here l:rou can
put l our· 0.01 brel I . , and . ~·o ur hat and your ,coat 1n a ·.• p.arate 1iew,, .and
haY"e roon1 lt.ft.. The'l'."e are 0ul3 ·. f ;'W c.hurclte w'h.ere el,erg~ men have
talent for ,dmwinl', cro . dsQ T·h .·r e i . uot any la k of church accon1mod tions, in your o·p ioion 1'A ■ NT10 .
. . . Is the la .:k of ~ittenda ce · ..,au:se th ; re is a·n y i1n11Ieasant com. .
pa1·i~on i t be ,c s 'om -.· ·-A. T: ere i.s . ~r-ea;· d.·al of it 0i i'ng to tha·t
1 belie\"eii I think th•e, fact is t'b:at, the 1,rorldng cla ·ses. :a re get11ag new
ideas and gett.'h• ·. a mor,e. iin.d~iten(le.:ut s1,·i1i1, u. ucl if 'tbel·· go an,.wbere
wl.~ re tbtAJ" are e _mpared ·to otlu~r tleople they d ·~ire to be just as well
fixed ancl look as well a=s other· pcoriler. 1 thin.'k. i·11at bas a. great i nflo. .
enco, m1>eeh lly 011. ,~01ue·1t aud, ebihlren~ You ,viii obse:r,·e that. ·t hat
mu·"t be true ."~hen you. tak i1 ··o cousi.d ·r ··ion lie progre ·, of th .· Sa~
b,a tb .. ~ '. •thool. n1oiement ·.u fhe , .·it)' a..~ •oom11a.r ti \\'ith the progt'eSs. of the
c . ur ·h '.: ., so far a th ,,"'." ai . ,1tte dee by the ·orkin,g classe ,. Some of
tbe ehurcb . II.ave v ·rs Jlopular "' titbl,ath-schools, and th pa -nts lavi~h
ain tbeJ" ean on t be •Cbffd_, n ,v 110 at t~ncl 't heu1 ; theJr Ii k
b . dr~ssed M
well aM other cbildreu,., and. tbe ~ go to Sund ~-school,l .an<l ev . 1·y effort,
;1,~·
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to
th.at can. be .. J)"J,r ed ·"s 1uru1 - tu ha\ e 'tbe. uh1ldrcu ·o · hat bey C3D ·. o to
Suuda) -~choot Lar . ,e nn.mber, of n1 n and w ni n , bo ne~er go to
church . ·tall an.d w'ho,arn opposed · u it, a.1~ ,s.tiU in fa:ror ofth ·. Sonday, :chool and like tbeii r cbildre-n to go to S~nda1;-scbool Tjhey belie.v · it
b.a, , a ,·erv good iudH ue and th·1t i i~ ~os i -.· to a chi.Id.
·
Q., You . ,n,ean that ti1ey fi nll beir m,ea u~ ad .. q ui1t, to sen 11 their eh.ii•
dreu,. but do Du' - feel able to . lotbe tbe.m · ·1, in ·. ocb a ·w av tu · t bey
,vouhl te In home in , 'h ur, ,b, · '- A. ···es; and.then there is the de ire for
taking da:~·"s rest. Yon n1u . ·. not Jen ·, e ont of ne.eouu t tlie I rge d•eca~ of be,lief in ·b :. theolocical co·nce(l•tions urtd.e rlsiug· thos.e ,churcb orgaui
zation ~- That h,t1.~ a,. ri" ~rreat d ~ I Jo do with it also.
Q.. W .b nt,, i.n. sour 01l·u1on,. l ,.id · to thatd ea •oft·· . th in th ordinary
te ets o,f the vaugeli ji l churcheN 1--- · • I beheve ·t b · n w1papers, .I ai,e
had more t,o d · ·w ith it t·h.a.n anything else.
beJie,.· e that tho puhJH•·1
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tiou of extraot _-•-from -,cieotists and, from rueo o,f p,hilose,pb.ical repute
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. anti ltaruiug 0111 ·tlJe variou ~qu.e stions tha't lie. at the bottom ,o f cbu11ch
dogmas, tha.t the. ,vide. ,s prmd systrm of qootnt1on and the cheHp re1,r.ihts ol" all the W'o r'ks beariu,g o,Ji these matters have 'b ad a great deal
to ,d.o ,,..i.t'I I creuti.ng ,s ometliing 'Wore tha·o me-re sk,epti-cis m-in fact, I
thin.I'"' a decide-cl unbe:ner~i11 the fuud,a m,e nta id,e as upon w:h ieh evangelical churobes ·re,st..
Q.,.· o __ h1r,~e,l,Y do these 'ideas of atfil1Jlati \ e unbelief, if I may so express Dl)~self,, ·p r,e vail; .bo-w e ,t ensi,~e 1s that getting to be!-A. I do
- n,o : thiuk that i,· i,s, ,_ o ,e~ ·tensive as, appearances wou.Jd iudi.ca.te.. I ·re..
gartl. Hiyse·l f as not .a competeut witness on that _q~estiu • _
('Tlie cx11.mination o,f the witness was, suspended at this _
pomt to ·be
re· ometl bereaft,er.)
Tbe. committee adjourned until ·, v,e d esday m,o rnillg D : xt,at 10 o'clock.
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:,- - -sn-"
-,.
W EDNE
A 1:'
&
- -•
- -- ,. - .- .p
w,Buer
Tb.e committee ,met at 10 o'clock, a., ·m,
JOHN Bo,·,_. ·a r-ecalled,,
j •
12
.· ~-,
-,, 1aoq
I ,~ .
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B,. - the CuAIRM.AN
:
Q.n l - tion.. Please re.snme yourtes,·imony·a.nd _go on i.ny,our O'WD w~y. If
the·r e are a:ny·nli6ap1•,r ehensi.ons of y,oo.r , itate1uen·t s the other day·· _ hi,c h
:rou. wonld Jike to eorrec·t, yoo ,ean do ,s~·) first,
M.IS -_- . PD.EBE -810 : S, CORRECTED.,
.A nswe:r. - fter givin," te ·t:mon:v befor~ ,: vour eomm.ittee last week., I
found, OH takh1g, up t,he mo1 1nD1g papers I he ne 't ,day,, mau,y i.ncorfeet
· tateweuts matle ,- ·-1000,g tho -e :sta'lement - was one 't bat .I 'b ad said
-- hi()H couh] be built in tbl . oountry ns ,c heap as they could 1n an,y
,conn try of the \\"orltt
di,l Dot say tha.t., Wbat I ditl say wa ,. _t bat th- .
,c oal, t: he ore, the lime toue in 't he n1i,ue, au,l the ti1ol,er in tbe forest
were as, cl1ea p in thi8 eountr) lie.fore labor w ,_ s a:ppJied to t,liem as, in
uu:, o·th?-:r· couutr,r in the wo,rld, and that DO country had opr>ortunities
bett~r tbau \Te had fo:r tbe bnild'iiog np Ahtl dev~Io1,m· nt of an int ·re,s,t
of tha,t kiud ;, but thi \ raw uu1terial of ·w btcb r spo'ke,,, , ,J1Ue in fbr. ·mine
nud fin~ fo~st, ouls formed 10 ptr· ce,nt~ of th -,,,.alue ot 'the shi11 complete,,,
r1utl '00 1•rr c.eut. bad to ·be a,ld._ ,I.tu 'that,, ·w hich was e~tirely labor_f tbat
·" IIi1e ,)·011 ,- ,n, -'e fm1n GO to 70 ~ ~e·r cp,n t . mor-e 'for th,a t 90 ·p er eent. of labor
than '\\•as 1,aid in n11J othc-r eo.1ntrv, the :ioisll ·, ~bip Clm.t uiore. When
'We p,a.y 70 'P . .r c _-. 11t. n1oro for 00 pe.r cent. q'f , .. hat composes tb,e. va·Jue of
tb shi1t tl1c1t is, H1 chfflcnlt'l we encounter; but fro,m the fact that our,
labor i ~, b -;t ter in1id,, bet tt'r fed, b tter clotbed._ more int.tJli,g ent, and that
t Ii ~re is les,s. of ccun hi'nation hem fha. , e 1sts1 in other ,con ntries,, each
111an is arubitious, and is "rj1llin,g to perforu1. a fair day's ,vork for a, fair
tt1ay'''s 1n1:r ; autl t b-· int Pit·gent: w,or.k.ingm,an kn0 W'S tba,t ·; he has eome
f 1·om a 11 1u1 rts, ot" the e~irt I1, to betteir h, i' cou.di tion here:; he is. oon -_ c1 ent iuusls ·u·'il lint[ o perforn11n,ore for the com1pP.us.ation he ·re(•ei.ve-1 than he
di0e8 i11 oth<::r ttour1 rrieR. Bv tba;t RD•i by means. of impro·,:-ed macbi:n.ery
,"r" ·• redu , t~ the <~O...i;\t of t ·h ~ ,0 ni8bf.1I ~hip ,luwn to th pohlt whe·r e, th _- _ di ff _Fif.ntiP betv.'"e -n tbe fir,s cost of' tile - bip,when eoinplete, in this country
cn1rl in Europe, 011ly t'oi·m ,~2(1 }ler cent. So much for t;he i.mpro ·e d eondi't:i.on of laho.r from its amb,i tion · nd its hopes, of the .ntnre,,
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iiii;.
RELlTIONS BETWE.E~: · LABOR A.ND CAPIT'AL..
,g7·
'T hen it bJ, not the first cost of 'the ,s hip that prev:e·n·t s 11 · from being
sb.i,p . owners. It i.--. the in creasect cost of ea]Jital io the.in,"e&'tment:; it is
·t ha·I during 'the ooo.strnot100 of tbe sldp,. trom t :b e mine t:o the ,·, n'ished
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ship, tbe Dllmber ofda3 · 'la'bor is or1IJ'' th·ree times tbe amount of 0iue.
year's l1&b0' , in run.n·i u,: i.t. .-· et W't~ am tweoty-fi'v,e yean ruoniu,g the
,ship and payi _g Am1·•riea111:labor on tbe ,same conditions:, aud., 'th.ere-fore,
tile cost of operating ·tJ1e sbi1> after sb,e i,a built-, in the labor question.
:alob ., is wbat ,vei:a·b~. u .-. down. Unless )~on reduce A·merican labor· 011
·the sea "to tile .- arne condition tha,t it occupies in other oountri,es, Jt is
.i lnpossible for you 'to tt.n the ~hip. The shi:p , , .· fter she is, bu'il't, and put
into eom ··is,dou to ,d.o ·h er work, :is a factory to all intents · nd. pu1 poses.
The .manofa,ctnrer b~e cannot ltO to wnrk and take a factory, i:f you.
give it to .him for n,o thing, and fil'l that factory··op with .Ameriean~·p a·1d
Iabor,and. run itin competition withaman ·, ho pay.s,fo.rll,i s factoryand
gets. his labor for li1alf tbe 1,:riee.. 'T hat. is my correction ·- here.
PROTEO .I ON.
1
To s_
poo.k. :no,w of ·protection.,. to encourage labor- to ·tb.a t-develop·ment
of natural resources ,of ·wb ic'h I ·h a . .· s.pok.,e·n, a Ia.w co■es into existen,ee.
........
- ..-.. ..,;I and
. . . '"liz
. be
·w'h_1.., ch, has.1...lJ!t"eD
om:m
. app I"'1ed: btr
: ~ a1-mos;t~. a1-1 c1n1
: ,ed.. na·t·
_-10:n s--t,
la.w of p~roteetion.. Proteetio,g what ! Protecting :abor~ ·T be, most
plausible and tit manne1 to po:t, tha;t iu at first was. to po.t on .a, tax by
wlll.ich a. re.venue fo.r th.e :suppo:r t of ·t he.Goverom.e nt .m ight he collected,.
.a nd appl:r that as a p·:roteeti.on for tbe developm1en.t of ind11· ·t ry. That
,ftJ,~;stem ot" p,r otectioo was a·ppH.ed by almost -al ·t he. civihzed .n ation·· ,
. a po 1.tion.
. -.
·"t.,.1 00.. W
until
· t-b.ey w·e re 10
wh··e11,e ·tb
·. -ey eou.Jd
: · moot .compet 1
· · ,e
·ha,~ e triet'l thait,.and. ·the simplP ,question th.en is\,, ·. ..i ll that 1,-rotect Ameri,c an· 1abo1· ·in ·tlJe condition that it ,ooonpiest Isa._· no;. and let me give
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.rou. my reasons.
I (l.o not wisll to intrude on the committee, aud. I do not ·w ish 'to ha·v e
!'. t undentood. that I am here as ·t·be ad.vooate of any me1~ theory or any
ind.ivid1_1al interes.i·.
come here taki'og a broad view of this ,vho'l e
subj,oot, .l ookin,g at .a ll labor,, and I ·vri.U. uot ma.ke a sio.g le state01@11 _in
m:1 testimony·that h ·· .> been. t:ake.n from any ,.·i lonary id. -as of m1ue, but
wiJ.I keep to tbe. ae.t ual reeord ,o f what is takiug place e .ery d~)...,
DIPORTA7J:ON;B OF POREIGN GOODS.
There has been. 'testimon,y· given here that the·r e .a: _, a great deal of
depresaion in tbe ,c ountry at present, th.at :l abor was, depressed,. men
were oat of empl.oyment, a surplas, p:rotluct o:f ma.nnfactured g-oods w·a · ·
:in the country, that tbere w ~ re more goo,ls mao11_
f actured than our own
people con]~ ,oonsu·me, and t·h at ot1r oHly opportnnJty· or cbauc-e was to
tsee·k a foreign ·m a·r k,e t. .I h.ave tak•eo tbooe. indns.t ries, ~o• as. not · o b,qr ..
den the oo.m:1nittee by· «oi ug ov,e r a·111 to sl10,v · ·l1at lb as t;akeu plaoo in
those h1dos:tries, an.d " T·h l weut are idle.
Io 1880 we 'i:mJ_
)ort·ed of ootton 1:?ood,a i.o to this oo,n ntr .~ . 20 9.29,,:JafJ; of
·
·
·
i
good
··
·
·
•
•1:-Q
· · · .. "-10,,
:-.: 0 "l·,,,
... oo
·· '. -•
R, ·nue
... l · · our
· · · . twoo. en . ~ .·. s, ~,.9··
·. 1,o·.93:.; a,u- ·d. o· r iron,
p,i,esen
~:151:~l ';re i:;::r
8~
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:t~;~{:¾~ ,rind j~ ,::1~~=
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$36,853.,'689 of cotton g,o ods; • · : 21 · ,9o2 of wool-n g-oods; aHd of irD'n,
· 40,tKNJ 000..
'T here ar · ·1·hree ind o tri,e·~, :an(I. tor t be past ten ~rearg we have im
ported sttuiething like . 11,000,000.. Here weire millions -of' money sent
out of this ooaotry· to purchase wha,t I might eall clotilin_g to •c'lotbei tho
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88
BELATIONB BETWEEH' LABOR A.ND CAPITAL..
-A·meriean people ·w onld yon eon.si.d .e r· th ·.t . the.re
.
was an o,verproduc ..
tion if ·~ e ·te9-oired tw,ell"'e million.s' w~rth or grain here ro f~ _odr J~•ple·
and only ra1,s ed te·n and had to buy twof Wonltl. that be 0\"6?p·-rodu.e-•
tion I What,, then,. woultl.yon think o_f tb:e,con,litio:o or t in.gs, whether
we were doing wb~ t ·,,le ougb·t , to do iu _tJJa·t great interest of bread, if
w·e luid tb:e 1nos.t fertile prairies, aud ,y et om·e~h.ing or other w.a s. i':"dus .
piring·by w·hich wo cliltnot raise our o,vn bread~ 0 . n yon .say that tbl!'re
ie.O\"'·e rprodoc·• ion ·w hen we raise the eotton in 1.he Ameri,c au ootton-·f ield,,
1vl1en we cnt the wool from the A·meiicaH sbeept Cao Joo. cumplaiu,
tbe-u1 that. them is overprodnc lon wben · e have beeu. bt1yi g tb.ese
mill"ons, of dollars' worth ,of clothing to clothe!o,or· ow.n people! Thi .
·m,ooey w ·o·t _to employ fo~i.g n labor, while you are complai_o iug' ·to--day
that your· o, . o. labor is idJ,e ; and. you :a re talk.i ng of what! Yon are
ta.l kiug of ' 're·,~enue. refor.m ''; l0U are talking a'b oot cutting down.
Woy · ·as 11ot this, mad .· at bo-m.e l Where i,s ·t he 111onopoly w·ben
-~.1,000.,000,000 of mercllautable articles have to be imported where 'God
had gi.v eu you .aU t' e ravr .m aterhll t,o make i.t, where you :b a,d the clean,;st
heads. and th.e brightest mechanics in the. w 0:r1,1 to produce it't· WhJ ,,
then, are · .011 oomplainwg· t~at there,is ,al monopoly·t· . · oney was ,aeeki11g an in, l!strnent at 5 and 6 Jler eent. aud .a, lower rate of inte·r ·. st.
WhJ' clid it not go into this mvestme.u tl Simply because tllere has
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b~n a terrori.s m.- and I ·w ill trae.e ·. ·her-e ·t ha·t ,c omes fro.m-tba.t held
the :ax to ,cu.t do,vn. .· ,very Jt ar the· ax was held over t·h e enterpris.. ~
iH,:· o;ipit·.al.iis t anti ,vork man and h.e w.as. threatened with "re.venue
reto.r1n..'1 llefom1, indeed ! If you red~ee the tariff ,yo11:_ would only bri·o g
n1ore mouey into a11 alread.y · Ol"erdowjn° Treasury and. mak· ·more i,d le
.,v,or-kinirmen. a home, becaose s-o.n ·r0old imJMJrt ,tuore. When a.w3;y
i"ro·m conai:tious, called a u;tonopoly, that :b " was laboring under, he eonld
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not kee1~ tba-t foreign article ~ut o,f , he market., aud labor wa . gi.v en. to
otb,e·r men. Tl!e w·hole cry of t'his "'·moHo,p oly" to-day is to ,bold u.p a
u1on,o poly that I will, ,·· tate.. Tb.,e wurkin,g meu are divided; ·t hey ,d o not
tiee 't-heir,r0w.n iooo.r-est. That, policy, which is ready t,o be sprun.g upon
him, is wba·t tb.e ·: o~kn:a,an.ha,s to tear, and to~day it robe bim of bis labor,
'1,eca 0 . e the think be i . too well pa.id.. A man. lenvea his bon1e abroad
if be-c · n ge't the n1on0:y to come to tb 1s g1,·eat eon ntry . here :he.is paid,
and then be gl,·1~ · bi . ·money to pur,cbase the. ll•roducts of labor b·r ooght
iu b -; re Jrom. abroa,I!
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NO MO "OPOLY.
I deny· th.at there i . nny monopol3r '\ \'P.hat i.ij this 10.onopol,y ,of the
1nant1ii1ctu1·ing interest . i~rom the ver~ found atioo the law i .' th-a t these
1ndust1·ies u:r e open for all~ .· re not tbe. 1n1ne, tbe fa.rest. . · he workshop
as :free to day t~
u r eapita.lis.ts to eot,e r as are fbe pm·1rie and the cotton-.fi.,e·1d:,.
It i:M onl)' · ·1natt,~r o:f cboice, a .d ·tbe·r e is no 1no·1~ J:DO'hO·p oly in ooe than
the1 ~ i~ 111 ·tJ1e othe1\. Tbe di'ffi culty to•dav is that in o.oe we have tbe
uc .,·au _·1gr : ,1\f e. 1·a.i .·e euough to,teed our own 11co_
ple, b,u t we ,do, .not clothe
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,vi-I.AT THE WORKI-: GMAN SB·0 ULD F ,E .A R ..
1 am no,v ,go~ng tu poi11t 0ut ·w·h at;, in n1y , ri,e ", the workio,g man ba.s
to lear1 ~bet~ it1,a blO\\" to _™3 st~~k at him ·bbat,be does not o:o.den'tand;
and the e1:.g ht-bo~r hl~v, wb1eb I w1'"l l call_atlen.tion to,.and all tbese 'things
are, kept UJ.) n8i a bu~bearbefore h~m·. The· ,g r 11.-t. m.onopoty th.at is goiu;:
to ~la11 ~I~ ter bi 10 i~ 1'.)i<l ~3- din.:--eting h iis aitteution to ·t hat. Tbe·r,e is a
gr, at u1~-1~,e ~, in_g of~the Ia bor ,q u.e ~tion a]I over tbe clv~lized ·w orld. to-day,
an,l ~lie lmgbt ~that 1~ !~~-o·wn ,o~.t
tbi_s country,, unfortuuately, I may
a,:, 1,H not qn1te as bnll1ant as, 1t shonJd be.
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RELA:.TION8 BET'WBEN' LABOR AlfD CAPITAL~
I have ·m ade i·t my· bu~ ioess to see man.y of the lettera written by im
mi.~ dts, and 'lo see..thoosa.ods of_im:m·ii!rants wllo ·h av,e eom.·e. be1-et a.nd
w:h o •d.escriil,e ·t be ad,ran.ced ,c ondition t!1P)... oeeup,y b ·re over 'that wh1eh.
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th,ey .held abroa.d ; .an.d that ,great Jlght, the position the laboring man.
or· A•1:;:riea is, bolding·, is revolnti,o.oiziog the
w bole.outside \f'orld, m.o re,
w·hero ei,~Hizati.on 1s 01:ost advanced- This
particularly t·hose nation·
revo·l utiob is ~ ,i n,g on _q nietly·, aod this great country b1 the Jight of th.e
workin,g man of a.II nations..
F .R EE TBAD'E ARGUMEN·T;S~
Now, my ,o ·· n •c onvi,c t,i.ons are tb:at ·w e sboo·l d do :n.otb.i:og that W•o nld.
]O'wer· the cooditi,on of tbe laborin, .· ma.n here.
hall bold HP both anus
for tree tra,le with aoy nat-ion that fi:r st est.ablishl.~1 .1:for111 of g'O,. -rumeut
similar to ,ou·r own in tbo io.terest of ·1abor, and. fba.t. ,rtll :r ai·,·_th laboring man s;traigh.t u.p .a.nd glve hi·m tbe same pay he get . · h.ere, teed him
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as he 1s fed herei educa:te l1ia chHdren us thev ar ... edu.c af -d. here ..
shall be willi.n.,g, then, to go, into that fi o:llt, certain tbat the · .me1ican
m
man will win;. but I am ot wi.lUn.g to see the
ueric· u
kinJ{Dlan
and thie enterprising· meo wbo , ..e.nture oo·t to ,;ri.,~e em11Ioym:e11t to that
w·o rkingman bron.g bt,·i n. competiti.on. ,vitb wlJRtt With au a .istooracy
of the olde:r nation,s . w·b o are the owners of tbe forest, the·owu.ers of the
soi1,, the owoers, of eY~ything.
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T'h e work.in.~:,m an 'bas tbere no ,-oioo-'in 't-he law ·t hat 1s DJade, 'b ut y ..·t,1
WO
from the.inftoe·nce o.f this. great COllot1 y, be is .risin.g aiul pre.ssi:n g for~
ward. and ·m aki ,g his d.,e mand, ·b o·t , w ; are es,t o·p ped. Thi arhstuc ao ·
will nev,@r ,give him an ·i ota; they will tr)· ~ .. 11 other plans firs, to t.le,·ote
bis condi'tiou before they give u1> ans o.f their own w·ealth. What is,
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the·i r plan.·.· To=d . y, 1 'h oe _.er · . . ·ill ·. atcb ·t he. p:r ogress of thin,:-. a.n d
watch. the migb'ty .1nu,~,e meut tha.t, is on foot., ,,ill find tha.t tbere is_war,
tb.e . most fi.er.oo , .air that ,e,.,.er too·k place ; ·b ut. it i.s a ,v·a r of· tliplom•· ~y,
it ii1. a ·wa:r from ·t h,e pulpit, i't ill a ·war of ·fdlse prea•cbiu. , it is a. ,i·a1 by
w·h ich fortunes are spe11t to give , ton . to a oootlition of" things wb·ich
an1ts them.. R· ch of ·t he nation,s, i .. .making·a de8pente strt1gg1·. · tu Jr.re~
serve i.ts o·\\'D market tor its owu labor, and ~they are all riencbh1.~ out
witb all trbat ·d iplomacy o w·b i,c·b I ,s,p oke, w~ith all their skill to g1~.p1,l0
and . ;: t hold of as much of their n. ighbon' market as tbey· cau .; -but
this is th · «reat market, tbe battle~ground. of all. Tbe g1r~at uttack is,
made in 1be iut.e~ -t of _
aJ for,e~gu labor,,_ and for its el.e·¥a·t i 011 ·ttack ii .·.,
made on tbizs,great.1:epnblic aud the position. tbat we •OCC11py~ It i.s ma.de
10 a thoneaud way . 'bat , ·ou ean·no nud . rstand
The;y buy onr cotton.
,oo - bread., our ·etro1~om; Jhey buy those tld1.1,g _which. tbc) cuuno·t J)rodnce. the1nselves,, aud. which man cannot, exis . ,,ritllout. ·. r t-t..+es..~lty eom~
pe]s them t,o bu)- suc'lh arti,c)e . , bot we hear the ,~·er~y ·ditns~,~ arn-u1nen·t
gii ·,e n in some o.f our Ne'\\" York pape1"s ~ ·. iooall,r, ·"'·It w·e do not, 'bu~
from t·b.em., they will not b11;J from 11&11" ·w ill any 1na11. of co1n10.on .sense.
be1ie1.e for one mo,1 nent that tl1e 11roduoo merchant of L1,.- er1lool who
bDlS our bread.,, our meat, OOF butter, our cheese, and our 1•etroleum
will ,g o ·to the iron-maker of Grea - B ,r ita1u,, and say· to, 'b i·m, ., ·. lf they· do
not bo5 · yonr iron. iu th ..· Unit ·d States, I Wlll not buy the:1r br, ad. f1.·om.
them·" ·! Do you belie·v e, ;gentlemen, that i1s• the ·r ule.pf' tr.r:dc:. Wl1Ht
sen,se is ·tbere in s11eh an argom.e nt t Do sou believe the)' " ~ill ~Ffl to the
man wbo supp.lies the cotton factory, aud say to the oottou 1nian111~1ctu rer,
'' U·1t'less the .Ameri,oon 1•~ple buy yoL1 r cottuH good.s., I will not buy an,T
bread from them .,,,I Gentlemen, they· bav,e. got to_·IH\t"c our b1~ea<:I, autl.
we do ·n ot thank them tor buying i't; - they have got to have ola r• food;
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f
KELATI,OlfS B,E ·r·WtIEN LABOR AND CAPITAL~ .
they cannot. l.i,··l~ withoo 1t,, they eanuot ·r aise it th :m el · es, and they
cauuof to-d:ay 1•~udut.~ th :i ro,,ru cotton,aud.th J mu . t bav·e onn~ We ,d o
11ot ·wau - tlu.: i r ,,·oolen o:r •Cotton gtXKlti, or iroH ; we w.a nt tb.eir gold,,
uutil we ~·• t s uch a. sur1•hH~ iu the 00 t1utrJ' thnt II OH -l . ·all be a.s cl1. ap
b,ere 11~, it is in l~n"'lmuul .; tl1eu · be work·ingnian \lt'"lll get t:beaper rent
n11tl cJo·t luu~, 1J1t1 ca1.1 idl'ortl a reduction of ?tinges.
A ,~ti<1•, igui,16 .~u1t flun,g look 1~la ·" th o .h r ~lay, when France. was
ou tin~ poi.Ht uf g·c·1t"ng into tronble 10 China, au ,l the English Go-,,.,ern-•
01 t e;:i:1ne for\,~ard a .11 d sai,tl, ,.., , VI Ir• t ~fleet "~ ill tin · · have oo oor co,t ton
butnUt ~s! \!Ve 1nu t look int that,"
Enghaud' ~wa·t p:ur.110 e now n1a,- b : expres · d in thi wa~: "'We
woultl Ii ke to pa)' !t ou b-dck for all the breatl ~ ud. all the prod act . we
_·b ny of 3·00 in th · tt-0th1c:ts ot" our t~wtories; take them in exchange;"
• t'bat h·II~ i . afl:i!Jngl 11d i8 o, er' .t o ·k d ia~itb the e J)M<l cts to~day.
i'ln1 . is t J1 , Jlol 1c) to get t.he1n ·into tbi , .m~-rk,et, and there·is.a powerful
iJ1tl r1·t ;·1 1~ l1rou.~ b't to btaar on t.h.is. cou11try ht t bat direction.. Th.is lutln~
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euoo it i1s tbat ·floods the conHt '~r ·,,1th free..trade. tlocunie·its, Uobd,en
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Ulu.b 1mm1>l1let:~, ,&c" Free,~trad.e clubs · broatl and advucami at home.
·11a ,.· ,!ii,1.1 •u t 1u ore- rnoney ev,c ry· yeat th.an. wo lid. be . ee1led to org&·nize .a,
co1111>1l.U~\ t:o 11nt up a. cotton fa.c or:f in AJaba·1na.. 1 ·. n,l! other Stat,e
,vb . i·e ~•bn.utlitHce uf' coal aoc.l water pow1 r ,eo1dd. be hatl, aud the raw
cottou,, ·•U free of duty, wit:b 11 h.ome mark -tat hand. The great.est
argn uor,t th~ :f rce--t1-ad,e r. , co · ld g t woult1. he to Hl bscr1be ,e nough to
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sturl ·such a. ·t:,,ctory, J~a.Y A rnelicau \l a:es, au<l at the end of tbe y~ar·
n 1~or::· 1lrloi,r 11rotit anti. Io· s. · ut tbes uien ,l·iH uot risk t •e ir · . oneyi
11 -iM ,?b n1• ,~ to talk t11onse.11 :e;. Uo1ui11,g down to oor pre·s ent eo:oditiou,
I b 1Ht~\ ,~ this <lo ·tri'"". . ;, i _ may
an e·x.tre1ne ooe, but I am a satisfi,e ll
n . that I nn1 ·,. it.ting in tlti .thai tha if th · eX[H~rinunlt 1.s tri~d it . :ill
cou1~ to,, hn ! 1 a1 · going t·o si y~thr L if a isyntl.i0<t·t of eapi.tal.ists were
to contt" to.g etbe .,, ~,nd out of )Hn~ . r ~ titudu io1" tb wnuderful wealtla
tlu~J h.~1d acctunu lat ~ti 1•rithiu tJJit 1 -~.1H1.b li.c, \,, ere to bny and store up
lb~ GH\"t•·rH1u~;1•t houdt;, · on~ to giv . th m :a s · ,r louat,ion t,o tbe " ·01king}k10lile of ·th(. l uitcil S tates-;. if tl1 ·J sbottld >ile 011 e, ough ,ca·11ital to
JJ«tY all 'the l."C·\·eu u "c a.1 e talking of, anti · be xpen es of tlli1 whole
Go1teru1u .ut,, iu order thut no nnn1 sboltld be tax: d, a cl 1sbou1d. 1S33f.
' 'Thi1N111e~t·", cl'II t.he ,.1eu1· ud ~ of .aIJ J,~our re,~euue la11t1": ; we will 'blot out
tbc: itle., fa t .~1 fo1· re,,c .1n1. e- or nytlring :.cl , ior al time;" 'if t'l1i · were
doue, 1 hc.'li,evc 1bat i11s,itl c of' two \eR ._ from tba·t d.ay· a powerful c-~Y
\,·onld ,,01n1 froin the j~·hrHler, tb · cottou~gro· . er, and 'tb.e . hole ma . , •Of
t.l 1e 11~01JJ,-~, u·\\ ca1111ot li•re. ua,.e .· 'tbo ~ eondition ,:; oar conn·tll,. " "ill
be d.uo11,~,1 '\\'iitl• t 11,t• Jtro~lncr~ of "beapcr n · .uo.u .-, aud our o ·o h1,o or ha .
g·. t 1o lte ret1Hctd, ;J,utl ,ve ,,ill 110 go iuto the A1ne.rica:11 mine .•" \iVbat
"~u,dd htt ti l l l"t•:suU,. lt ,,,011.l,cl bring loi th a calamity· th.at woolcl be
,;~01'"NC t I tUI n111ht~ plagn , s or '\ \".nrB the wo J,,I ever t.\l w; 1t ·\\ oult:1 drive
tl1ls ~1·t at, in.rs~ of Jtt•o111e lnt,~lt to th ·_ ·in·a'irie an~l to the cotton-.liel1l, aud
" •t - shou1 I I. ..~ 1•,ttdnt"~~.l to :-nch n condili.o n .as I b · , .. · p()ken of before, a
uut1011 of' t·•1o l t.o u iuul corn gro,\~ers .nud =tn O\ · r11rodu~ti,r,e agri.L~ll.nml
uati,o n ·t bat \'ro,11,1 h ~o 1bt1t1 of ttll it~ wfal.th iu gold taken. on't, of the isoil,.
:inti. lJy anti bs 01 1· \\·lutlt, tl~vclopn1ent ·\vouJ~l stop.
l
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UOS,l
. ·1~ UO'l 'l ON llAN F · · GT ·n,E HERE .AND ABROAD~
tlult w bav·e :i,d le workmen. Som e
nuu1 ~;.11, I tu 111,e ·1~,,t fo1i~ :si tH:•e , " ,,. . 11,., if ,,:e ou Ir h;ul free tr:1d.e i.u ·wool
\1-~ eon 'h l nn1k .. th·· t, ,,·,n1h.~u b i1,1~iH~ ·~ so, that- ~t \\"OHie.i l . a gr ~l ·t ben ~lit."
iii. But, t
,.aid J,. " ~.-o ·1 ba \ mC f1·t~e l ade 'i'b C8t,ton, and yon. have impor 00
,-re iu·t•
,ttJ"t
to~,1t1;.!t~ coH11tluiniu:r
01
-
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;r
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:RELATIONS, B~TWE,EN LABOR A.ND CJ.PITAL.
,~
mom. e.otton KoodS ·d uri.n g the Ia ··.t Jea,r than Ji'"OU ,d id woolen goo.1s, and
'it took about tlu~ Manie 1a bnr to prodooo tl1en1. Tba·t . ba,s 11ot biu g to
do with the ,qtte·- tion." '' But," 1n:a-11 saJs, '·' ,v,e oAgbt to ·ue alde to
comp~te · . 1th all na'tiou·. in t e rrod.a et of .a r11ic1es nr,a ..le from cottn11
becao : · we ha,~,e th e eottou at hom,e." That ·rooks very pb1uN1ble on
th1e 1SUrfa · ·_· ; bot tbi.s is a que :t.i on. the{ - i. of great i1n1tnrti1.uoo to tbe
nation, and ever~ mau w·ho offer · nu o.1duiou OH it s.1ould go ·way dO\:VD
to the botto1n and get the bottol facht. I hav·e uot got .a dollar ·i u the.
cot,t on ·b u iness.·;. hut ·wl1at :i ,s the. ad., ·antage to ·t he .· · •· ·rica.u rna intact...
urer ·t ba - tbe ·c,otton i growp.at bo,1ne f ,oue advauta.~·is th~at in 1.·· a,ee
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or ·, var be ·b· __ l.11s su1•ply at ho -.· ~ , and that,ts..iibont =.di. All ·t h•e, otlJJer
ad.,,.autage - do not: an1011nt to HDJ"tbii1g~ Wh~ .: When tbat. ,questio
came UJJ, took t be pai.oa to ,,. .ei gll a ya-rd of cot ton .g otrds to fi 1Hl it · .
actual weig11t1 and .. to 1ud that . l'.anl of ord~uary eo,t to·o goods ,vei·g hM
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tbree ounr.e s and , fraction, or ~rt 1e.,ost it ·t·ook liYe )~ards of co tou goods
to 1nak, one. pound~
bale or·,001 ton i · 500 IMlo.nds, aHd it ,Tou'l,d 1na..ke
2,1800 sanl of cotton. good~. The eottou grtla~er iu the South prudu~s
tl1e oo'ttou ; i.t i ~, broHgbt, to . e,:v Yo.rk fb.r tli-·trU.>otion, an I it oos.t:s t· · e
Am,e,icau ·cotton-weav,e1 · soniet bin il1t to t:·1ke it t:1•,. ·ru New York to New
England, au(l i. cost·· 1· he Euglisb 1na11ulactnrer· sotn~'thi11g to take it
aornss tl1e oooa11~ That cost -""s flbnut .·_-·a a b;;ale. .D·e dnct fron, I.bait the.,
cost of tra.usitortiug i·t 011 to .··,ew h:ing'l:1utJ, auJ. lbe N,e\v Euglancl 1~abo..
-&"l,ett1 rer h ;;t . 1ro n1 ad '\ '" an tage o,·t~r th c JE ugl isb cott,011 -·, en, .·'t~l of a.bout
•_.3 ~ bnl . Di ,.·'idc tbe .2.,800 ) ard8 of· cotton znade by the ha]e of cotton
~ ud look ,•{b a't ~ . s n1 ,d l frac.~·inn t.he 1.na nt1 t·act 11.rer a · bn1ne h:rt.~
. go. by
reusoo o'f the eot ·on being .g rown in this eountr:r,. outsi le of the pus.itire.
k:nowJ.edig c t u1t, 11e ean ha,.• it. in J>euce: and ·w4,r.. It, is. au iteu1. ·t hat
,,··utdd uo · begh1 to ·m a--: e. up · be ditferen,~.e b t" eeu ,,t apltal iu·, ~ t ~d h1
th is; ~onut.1,\ and 1·11 England, ,r itbout t,ak iug at all i u to a.e<ronut the
JJ
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ld~ber cost of l ,_bor
.N o,, let. us tak,e up tbe sn.~Ject of a "'taritf lor :re,~enue on.1~r,'" a.nd
a ·1,ll;Jy it. to tb ose i ud u st r1t= ~.. I ha v-...1. sbo·w ~ :)~o u u 1•d~·r the 1n . se·1 •t )aw
tl1e ,euo:r1nou:s au1onnt of Ul'O.ney sent ou1· of the conn.try 't.t, wt,··c ,t.~1111loy1ue t to for,e1gn Jabo1.. I ba,·e sho\YH thatr .tlu .re is. no lni,v to prcv ·n t
capital 'b eiug in,. est;ed i.n tll~ p,r oduots •.. t home, but it is 'f~,untl tbttt
it is not p,r ofi table, I ·\ i iU ta'k e fbr the bit sis nf an arJ,:nin.en t \\~b i,el1 is
·v ery nea correct, t bat tu ·r e i ·, about tlu~ .~au I e. .an1 ou Ht o t: c t1Jntu l i 11·. ·est'ed in 't hr·. ·mann:l·nct1uing iutf.res,t iH rb · United S,tat,f-\,· that there
is in G:t ta B,rita.i u, and I ·w ill t~1ke tbo f gnres a ··cording to tbe l,,~t
ce:u sus, ,,rb ich .a·re ,. ·-.·•~ near oorr(:ic •·t,.. Tl Iere· nre @-t,(M.H t,tMJO,.UUO ·i11, · ~t ctl
in tb·e 1~b1nt ., H(\ ,vor.k ing Cic;11,ital of tih ~ maHutaet 1ri11g i.ntt
tS uf
Orea Britain, and sa,)- a s1n1i1l~n ~uoouHt, in th - 1·•l'itct1. Sf atl•~ - JL·,0,1' I
am ta1ki:ug not for one l)'il1t'icnb1,r 1titatl'', nor ft 1· any ouc 1•urti Luiar ·1ocrt1~
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tion, bu't I .an1. ta] kin· • for tin~ i ut1..1res·t s of ·• I l.h.
t tltes, a · ,d H1ore
11art.ictdarlJf for •he tle\,.,eln,1nnent of our n.utl,t .,·c.lo1,l td ~tnte~ r ,vr,o,fc
to th · ections of the •eonuti") " ·h: re. SOJ:u.e of' he~, article~ ··· ha:t .I :~1•·•·jflk
of cot1l1l lle 1>•roflit_abl,., 1nnn:11f1,,'tui cd, anti 1 found t J1a't tl1e1·e "·as a dis.
position t,o I•a · aln1 ost an;\: fa i.r i .ate of in h:n ~t itH t.h,e c •.1.11i ta I 1·tt1J u1 ttl,
8. or 10 11er cent.. if n •._,,_.s; _ar:{, i u :U1 e Son t b antt J~on H,g ,·1· State,s~ ~u u I
th.os art~the ·.· . tu'teN, ,re bn,. · to t}1ke c:11'"e··or: l)1J1~J·.~ IJ.:t\~c. :,:11,wu 111•
· o t ltnt tli1ey a1·. · ~ _JJO\\" r in thenuu 1,·e.s -1 rP't~r non~ t.u 't b.. ~ 1-~·il:-;t t 111 ~nul
1'l1()1tlle Statt.8-but ,,,.. • ulus1t tal,f care of' tbP Stan·t]a; \\"·e 1i·111st t,1k.~· tu1■e
of that 6t•ct tnn or tl!e couu tr•\r. "~h ich ·..:, , e'f. u ndl'. ,~t~lo1,t rl ~nu! rif \Tc . ~u n
g-et "lloub \'1"ith lt .~s hen•,. 1 ,e IH u~t t~diu C4n~, th}! f. \ · ~..~i ,. . thtHld H ch.,a nee
equal · n t lie tJuuLet:; ,ve J1ad. .r.11 onr early c~lft•t'"t to •.ltn-eloJ,. T'h ~lt fou1·
thousaud . -1i1Hous of ca1•ital would be ·1· 01 th in tbia. eouut1~
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av,e mge. in those. S,t atee '1 pe·:r ,cen ,. ·which wo~d make, .a n inteN&t an••
nnally of two, hundried and ei.g h :y millious of m,oney., T o handred
and eighty mlH.ioo.s of money would be tb.e intere"~'t a·t 'l per eent.. pai!,l
upon a ,c apital of four thoosan,1 million . 1 vested i ,u our fJctorieB botk
iri capi.tal and plant;. lt may be a great de-· mom th.an that.
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wealt ,· aDd ha no outlets for it, woold eost a per cent., or 1120,000,:000.
· ·.~uc·t ~~e. ,120,, .00,000 from the 1·280,ooo,ooo, aud ,yo• ha,v e the sum
of tl,60,000,000 a year iu fbe rate ot ln.terest a1 one against the . · msrican
manufacture1: on t.he ca.pit ·t inir,·s,ted.
T.a ke, then, 'the amonut of m.one tha .· is DeceMar, ·t o p~ the ex·penses of the G'.ov,ernm .nt, ,· 1ao.,ooo,uoo a rear; raise this 1100,000,,000
a yea . fro · be · 1ticles that l on impo.r ·, nt that - · , a ,d uty ·nr~ou the
mauufi1etored .a1 -iele1, to b paid befo.re it e·n.ters, our maTket ; add that
to the 1120,000,000 t'bey· pay ~~ interest, and .you _ba,·.· e , ,~·oo,ooo.,,000 as
the d~ty aud ·i nter to ._ th · ~ugli, - •rtiele .a coordinr to ·t he n.~ t·i oos of
.a ·t ariff'·tor re.ven.u ; 3 ··t there is on t-ke item of intern t alone eao,000,000
BJ·ear _g jnst th.e Am., ricau nl · ottfaetnrer,ab(l tb. -_. w,o r·k ma .,whoseoo·n ..
dition you are tryiHg to · l _ate to-d~-l, is entirely lefit oot. It ight be
,s aid ·t hat in tba·t t -,- - souu, di8~rimin tion ,s hould be used, a - d i.t sh.o nld
he ap11Ued to cert:ain articl -S, which ·would neetl proteetion; but ·whoeiver,
inve,: tigat , the great articles ·w· icb. we need and i'mport w11 find that
1here a ,e ,·er . f _w of th•• ·m where 90 p -· · cent. of' the1·r value w· ·e·n. p o~
···t 1m....·bor
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under ·Jie· ·_ contlitio: . ~f ·w bic · liB.p eak.; ye·t, ·t hewor·k man whose case is
brought up, 1,ere t.o..day is left, out in the eold aotl reooiv·es ·no eon: ide:r ation in ·t hat ·calc..ulation a·t all. The m,ere intere . ·t on e.ap1tal . · .o ne dis~
poses of tbe w·bole.,subj ·tf, A. tariff for re-venuie,only would m :.k•e com..
pe,t ition with for . ign ·p rodnoors impos·-- -ble•
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No , I will loo - at, the w,o rkma '• , sid,e of tile question. Take ·t ho -e
three articles I ·1ia _e n.ame . ,, w·hi h are · oolen goods, eott.oo goods,.and
iron goods. Suppose tha·t three es:tabliah -- eu·t under this, law are '•
st rted io this country ,a nd 1n Engl·-, n,d , wi It tbe amount of _ro'teetion
afforded ·b y a tariff fo . re enne ouly.. One is ,s tarted w1th.on·t taking
into oous1de·r atio ·. the differen.c , .as I. bav,e sho _ 'before·, in the inter-,es,t a.nd the plan ., but tb· · me-; ..Qetn.a:I pay of the. workme, ,.. From all
·t he ·testimony th~. t I ba,~e seen here ·t he a erage pa~ of th: ekiDed la..
bor ot this ,c ountry ·has been about 1,9., and , ,000 men emp, oye in, a
woolen factory or cotton faetorJ ·, a s·hip. yard or a. . iron. establiehmen·t,
would get •12,000 ·_, week. - be ·· vera.g - pay for the.sa·me ,c· · s.of labor
in.,Sheffl.el.d or a_n y [Jart of E1urope would be, say·, ten shillings a day. That
is tbe lar,g est average th.a t I uuderstan.,d they are .a ble to earn. This
would m ·_ 'k e ,87,200.. ~o tha·t in the A:rnerican factory· there would be
paid to the sam.e nowber or m:e.n t4,800 mo e per week than would be
1,wtl on the, otber .'id,e of the water lar doing t -e same. thing.
- ,Q. _How _m~ch difference -A. A diifere·nce of 14,800 in one week.
At tbe ,e nd of t·he y ar tbe account in each factory would stan~ thus ..
,1249,600 a year more ·p aid in the Americ . n factory for labor than waa,
paid -in the forei,g n. 1·a ctory,, If ·'. h.e American. factory bits, go:t to live,
·w hat has to ·b ed· ne·t · -· 011 .b ~ve got to m .··.· t thh; labor qnest.i .u square
n ·t he face; and. If my COil \"ictioo w·, r· : hat ,·b0 ·o,rkin,gm.ao·'a position
ought to be no better h.e re th.a n in any other conn.try of the world, I
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BELA!I'IOMS bTWnk l,ABOR Alm CA.i'r:t . L
1tould go manfully before. him, call a m1eetiug· i"D the Cooper · sti1ute
or elsewher,e, and ,say t,o him, ''God, has, ga·,,.e.n u all th.e. griea.t adva11,.,
ta.g es be has gi ,en . ny· ·people on earth, all the raw m. ·teri .· Js that are
necessary to give us .an th comfort . of life ·;, bu· , yon occupJ a 11ositi:o.o
that doe . , not belO'ng to ):OU as, a wurkingm.au, a po~1'tion not ut~,e utlied
'b y any· m u of your pro-Cession. I e II ' l.'e; and in 0rde1' that nre ~11001,ml
.make. use of the fiel,d of 01 ·. n competition with. ~ he nat~ons, of the "'~o,r,l d,
you ba~e .- ot to oom,e, down to their ,eonditio11. God · .··_. g1,~t!n us all
thia ma,t erial 'f,0 do · .· ith, but yonr fal e uotio s aud 1tleatS, are i tbe
. ay ; ,y on ha:v e too many of the. good tbi, ,I,,~ of life, you·r ,cb·mlrlfen spend
too many days iu the sehool-hou·· e,I your ·wife i . too w·e ll dret;setl . and
· on eat, too good f-000; you ha.,,. e. got to come do-wn to the couditi.on of
the meu of other na·tJon1 of ,i our lass,, and th.en we can .ton1pete·."
am not, talking· here in the intere .t of a.n y particular class, creecl,, or
politi.eal party, ·b y advooating th · ·e priuetples.. T'b e, man · -ho publicly
ad ..oeates tbese. priuci1,les., ·w bic·b I speak for, l . t him be a De1noo ·. t ,o.r
Bep·u bliean or -. bat not, is thre man ·t o.r m,e , because belie,Te he is, the
man. for the country Time,· . ill prove these ·p rinciJll" to be 1·i _-· ht, and.
when · his, whole thing irs n·n eiled a.·11 public men will h· \le to come to
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If free trade is to prevail_and the A:merica,o factory to ~main npeu,
th e workman 'b as to come down to the condition of and take tbe 1l.m e
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pay a.s tbe foreign workman I ·aye J~o··~,ed at ·t hi 1su·bje -~t wiL h a·n
·u uprejudieed mind, a.ud there is uot a 1single instanoo iti all ml~ lite
wbere I belonged to the part... tl1at be 1nau bclougs to, who a~:l\ooate
tba i doctrine of crusbi11,g· (IOWU labor,
- b: · ve sbo,vn b .· figu.res wb_y men a-re idle.. I snppos · it et.1111es with iu
the ,scope of the rcso:lntion unde·r vlhich yo·u are .a cti11 , ·t hat ''fhere1er
d,e.v elopme_t · •-11 rake p'l ace by · ic , , 'labot can be e·m.p.l· ,y ed iH 'JJ,laoo o
bei:n,g 'i.dl , it-i · ,,roper for yon to,hear ·the te ·. timony whtch llOiH'ts ·i t ont.
T.k e gore , ha·..,e gi,'f"-en di,s po e of that ·~«bjeet . · to tb.ree grea ; indqts1
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Of all intere ts hat ca.II for· the gr · ates.t a~mount of labor an,1. briug
the gre . e .t 3010lltlt o;f we .t'l tb to •·. -couu tr , Wit.bout iwpove-r.1~11 iug its
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soil,, the ahipping i.H'terP t ·.tauds. first. , am going to be car-efu1; \Yh . t.
e,; er testim,ouy I :m.ay ,:~ .1.v ·· he:re to-d "''· -, I lul,·v e beeu. car .ful t , get the
offl.ei.al fact to , u.stain me, so tlult thi 1 - shall be no dou b ' bou't the
·~·. r~.ons I · . ke. The la t ceu~u ', .bo:,..,~s fb=f -Great Britain had oue
thou,s a;n,d millions of mon ' ·, i v~ ted
Ji ' r 'hipping; and ro sho _:r s•·ou
the wouderi"ul wh;dom:of lier rwlicy looking,a.wa,y oft"iu·to the fut"ur , and
see·in_g the, troe w y to occupy h r ·11,r op r· 1,ostti ou, I will. give you the
o cial. figures. In l~OO ;be hall IC,,30 men en1p·10,etl in aiUug,sbi.p ;,
in
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t'be , a-m e years,. :e _b . ,d onl..
\700 i,n st .a111-l .2,730 n1en in ~anino--shipg
an1d 8,.700 io 1:;teaim ! I .. .i n JU mp ti g nre·s for t'be sa k.e. of ,s a:\;'iD." ti 1uf!-.
ln 1882 be had 166,lMJO m n iu t awi, hips~, Look at the wouderful
·. trid , the gre t re · oht ion, ,> nc.l Eng·la"D( w:as the on .y 11.;1tiou in the
world that foresaw tlla· st ea ·n1 " as goiug t,o tlo t be ,vor k.
Th . s,i ngle qoestio11, th >-n,,is,,'\\~b·i. · ,, as he,r 1>ohc-l · in m:1kiog that mighty
revolution, ,cban,g iug the team ft'1m 8700 1neu in 1850 ·to 100,( . O iu
188~ I She· bas~ as I ha·ve st ~tei ., . J,OOO,,OU0,:000 of cd1•·ta1 iuvest~d IH
he~ sbi (lp ~ n_g ,;. aud.,,·fir·-. t, \\"" h, , t is t b s ,J,OtMl,000,0011 of cn,1,,i:ta] com·posetl
,o rf '!'hat brings ,us down to th(. lab . r qn · t.·tion a-g ain~ All th · t vn1.,_, iu
·t·~h·•.ll,t', •1· ,m
~u10·,·.,oo
·•· u,000. o· f l'f . alth
1:•o·t· +li
- eo froDi hl\r oorn-fi eld h I
-·~l k
ootton•.fields, o - he - gnun. fiel,d ; !She im._pov,erished not one, acre of her
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Rl:LA.TIOMs. BE1'WEE,N LABO.R AND CA.P.l'T il.
i to tl1 .. earth. · .· here · ·b e son
soil ·t o prodHce it·; she went a, • y do
never sbone, but,·wherie the ele .Lr-b .aded..m1e1 · o1 G·r eat B·r itain ·p i.e n~,
, itnd · he brought out t.be m. terhtl to 11, ,- lu.c e tlus ,vith,, il,nd from tb.e
knowl "d,:te I lia,·e of tbi,s material..iu the State of our tri.end from Ala ..
ha.ma to&day, Grea,t Britain. ·h as uo'thiug a:t a.·n to 00· -lptlre ~ith it. The·~
that ,: ealtb lies buried awas- down, :a -1 \d until ver~.r ·r,e eently men. scarcely·
knew t.bat it exi~tedi Theo, to put t'llat . 1,000,000,000 into h.i ps--all
that t,h is miue.ral w· J:'t worth · a • probably· t·rom 5 to 10 per 000 1· _:.j t required 1995,000,,000, of labor. Loo,k at it.. $993, 00,000 of l bor pro..
doeed fur the wor ·~i ,J;men of G·1~ 't BrUah1 out of that oue.ide al,o e'995,008,0001of l bor' Who, t·heo,, will r ..~kon up the JJro6ts of 11rodo,e.
tug ·t bat thing· at l ome and ,ReUing · t to other uat100 .·0 . n in ·-. it herself!
·. ho ca-11 tell th . choo,J.. bouses and.
s ·h e llas used it heE ~- 'I f principally...
churcb,e s ~1nd public ·b uilding - au,l oth ··r thing ., that l1a -e ·b .en: created
out of the proAt .a nd tbA expenditure of' th _t $990.,,000.,,000 ; That oons,titutes the p,r ofit. Tbere·, titer ·m ·n iti fed aud. clothed, is w·b at oon.
sti.t u.tes t.be we _·1t·h of a na;tio·n ,, and t 11e n ··_tio1l tla at ·f ries 'to . ·. · ,. p,that at
home i.·, the nation that is rieh ;, and the i1ati.on tba · tri s to send its
m .ne.. broad and will not p,roduoo is tb. n.ati.on ·t b -t is, alwa,J s a beg·..
gar ·. nd a borrowe:r. It i,s a good deal like . n1an. ",The man · ho does.
not h.el_J> 1.Ji'mself, bot, ,a l,,ayis, look · to , om•e body else for help,: 1s al.ways
1l()Or and a ·b e.g g" r ,o f mo·, ey o, · som. thing 1 e.. England' ·, . h'ipb,n ildiog·
es em11l.oyment ·iu ·the constructior . and .altoa-etber it gives per an nt e·m·p loy.me ·t to, 2·40,000 :m en 1.e_g ol ly in coun ction with the run·oi n g· of ·the ,sbi JJ afler s.he. is. built..
Ag1ain, iH 1 .. 0 'be gros . ,e arnings ot · bat fle t; w,e r, · ,350,,000,000 o,f
mouey----$350"000,000 of. money earned · . · · ·bout impov ti' bing tbe so·1,
in doi'ug the bu in ssofher own. anid of utli ~r ua·tions1 ' 11 l ·.Sl the gross
e _·r uing,s. ·were ··376,,0410,000, a d j - 882 $400,000,.U00--1400,000.,000 of
money earuetl b.J tha,t one ·i ndustry. Otl'tof tbat who]e 1-4 00,~,,0 00 of .
money,. le s, t'h .·. divid.end8 pai.d to eapi'taUs,t ', all ,vent back to labor or·
the 1,rodu.ct. of labor-; i.t went i to the 011 factoFJ·, it w nt into ·t he coal
mine, it we11t :in.to . l-e·r y i.nclus,t ry. It Wit all expeud,e d with,the ·, eep
t"'.on. of 't'be drvi.dend and. W•e nt back to labor a,gain. ··. ·h ·. a w,ond.e,rfnl id.e a th ··t is. that, th . .-e Jleople b•. _v ·conc~i,:ed :!
' nder the u ual custo s o com . .
u.rther "than th,a-t., \Vhat ne.x:t
mercial uations atod. safe bu -iu. ss,1:.eor1 e, f.ho~ ships a-'r · insured., aocl or
· ha .1 On an averaige the i surrance iis 5 per c nt , a.nd if be,) we.re all
·in. ured tbe i nisuranc~ would be 5·per oon t. on .,1,,ooo,ooo,CK)O, or,100,000,000
insurance alone. This iosu auoo is c.b~ige· l to toe poople of 0 · h,eT nations wb,1ch she does bu·. iHes -~-for., antl all ·t hat -c a·p ital ,comes hom.e_to
E ;n gla,n d . It tu.a ke . Engli .-h e . pital ch·· a;p, und. ch•ea.p c . pit ·l enables
tlhe unde elo,p ed eoontry ·t o de,; e·lop i'tsel:f,
What~i··. tbe next gre ,t at1vantage •· The nece sity· of reconstructing
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.. op . . ·.t·1,on 01: ecy year, t·.o ma. e up 1or
,., th'
vesse_
-. ·1"'s .ft ~ e·t 1n
an d k··ef-ptng
t11 _t are )o..'i't" to k·eep up with the ruod.e rn :i111provem .·uts .an.d the e•- ·...
,J>ens - of r ~.p ain, requires an e·• -penclitnre of IO 11 .:r cent mom, ,e:verv bit,
o , wltio'h g oe back to l1abor exoept 10 per ,cent., the valoe of the material
ln he mKJe,,and to· su1>·p l,y it, to t _.d..a]l i · at labor, and to teep ii in em
plo ~ment, aud to, brio,g home to tha·t on.e country ·t his enormous .. ealth
i'- -be polic:r of England.
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Tbe questiou th.en tomes, up,, Wha. were h · r ac1,~·, ·11tacre' over otber
nations iu doing that f Wha't, were the ad· ant.ages ·t hat she had ,over
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
BEL!:1''.IONS !ETWEE.N LA.BOB
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all o-t1her nations in 1,r-od.u.eir1g tba r;e:sult '! ··one whatsoeve1•", H ·r an
vant.af?es are les·~ than tboSP. we lut¥t-•.. There are only 'two adva11ta~•es.
a.be bad, cbe·.Hpe.r labor ant'I ebeaper ,c a,pital;, bot", tlu1t ,c.b,e-ap cu.piit~tl. is
prodt1ccll b.~ the ,re:1•J"' l)Oliey of,, hiit~h I ba,.,e s,1.,uke·u.•
Our atllc:tHtctges ,ar,e superior to be11
s ; we lul\"e Iii~ 00=11,, · be or ·, the
forest, the cotton~ tbe 'b r, afl, a1ul the iut;elliienee. We bav·e not OiHlv.
·t he tbi.u.gs to build the , b· p, but tile freightK t 0 oa<1 it, ,\~by, tl1eu, bas.
Euglancl acc.ro1n11H~betl tlds ,voode1·ful r - ult ·\\~l1ile we tn:-e a,. we are t·
Wber,e .a re we ,. Ate .,· ,·ear8 a.~'ll \l"·e ·w·ere. a,nation, the _proucle,s t o _·the
ea rt b,. the second O)lOll thA ~ea, ;l .nd f"d 11i,llv ,a ,i-lpiri.n g to I the· first.. To;;
da~ in the_foretg11 tra.d.~,tom.parat.i ·el., :-,. peak'iug, u~·e ar-c no,,:be1·e.. Wl1at
is our puli.e.~- 1' Some, bow I do ·u.o .. un d-e rst~_ud it, au.ti I ne,~,e r ,c.onltf u na
derstaud w h~·
J •th,ie J) .· ss of t.h is coon trv IJ a~ 11ot ,l011.e its dut 1J t iu this re ..
s:p . -ct-, more 11ariie.ularl3 the 1.•res -- of .N e~ 1:·o rk wll i- •b ought- to be· the
gU'clnli ' II of t'Jl:_ nation,, looking ,Ont and sbo ' iHg '["bet-e ad·,~atit,iwe is to
be. takeiu for our Off n country. an<l it deT lopru~nt1 a1Hl t·be , u1t11ort of
our owu. labor. The ,e-0 urse t la e t)r- -ss doe take m n R't be taken bt~N DtH.J,
·t ha1S not in,~e.st:iga.tetl the 1Suhject.. ,¥e have l1ad dns.t tbrown in our
eyes ; all the little shilly--sb a.lly u1ea11 , 'ha•re b . ~u ad-01>-ted to, try to d . ooive the ·poopl,e wben t·11ey as.k, ,h Ho,w· d.id E·ngJa.1ul accomplish. thu,
great resn'l t T" Wlu~u a n1an. b,-·), ,n g· tuds .and p r .·eYera n ~ .. gi ,,.H g a
life to it, risk i.n ,- his 1ifti, ·do1 ng· e . ery t·b ing to .acoom1r1lish an o\tject,
.reaebes anti gets fast _itb'in. bis, clutch tbe l)OWer he has b _en .a fter, you
must 1uark til . t - .a n, a -tl if yoll ·_ .a.Ht to get ,y our share of tb ·..ri.c hes. h ha _laid up by u nseroi,olous roeaus i:tD.d ta.kin o- .ad \"aotage o:f you, l··o o
mlMt allow· tltat .· nu ha.-v e got to p,repa,l"e your~elf, autl no sbHly--. haHy,
fSmall, twopenny id·e a. wiH make him ,surrender to yoll..
First,, to a-ceO'mplish tlJ .· - result J , -~·. ak of~ bistory tells tb.e. ta]e.. For
tw·o huudretl ,years Euglis.b statesineu have \1 atcl)ed tb.0 ·l\:orld. 1 has.
bttea their dream, the·i r amb1tioo,. their aim. ti0 contioJ, th · sea. Tbey
hav,e._made· war upon other nations for that 1n1r110~e. T·hey trh.'- tl i.t on
ll8
_nd. no man wiU deny tha: they trie d 1t in 181~~!'. It ,,a,s tbe i ue
he.re.; it w.a s t'he po~i.tiou _bat w· '11' 1 rapid.I, gabnng u1>0n h.er, and
wboev,er will look. upon bis.torr wHI ti.nrl tllat ber 1States1neo saw that
and told the plai u troth., tbat tb .·y 1u1u1t not let tha . , .·ouHg ,g ia l'l't rise
and cru,s h th•m out 011 be ocea.11, and all 11:r etexls w · re pu.-t out for the
11 .·r pose of Bl ._ :t-iug case to ake ·war uimu t be 1· oung·r , .1n1blic. .E 1·1 gJa..ud ~ -ri&eed her 1nillion ~:in that ,'.Wa·r , aufl Jet ,s be accou1pU1:;bed noth~
in.g.. What is, m:o '" t bu.m Uiating to th·i,s great ,couo try is t be fact that
· ·w e have sae1-..i6oed our Ii -. e:s and 0~11:· u1iHitH1~, too, ratl1 ·r tha.n ~nu re,n der
to her : hat sh,e hati complete contr,1I of to-t1~1~~- the oo·.·an-aud 1'1Jere
it is To-day bistory and the fa ·t~ t .n y·ou t11at ·8 be 1nt1.r ob es 101 t l1 aud
says, , , Under :m y ft,1g is ooe.. ))alf the 001umerce of' ·t ,he ,, hole . -o:rld cat.rioo. ·n· ,S he has bet::u. reachin,I { · out and c·ryn1g to ,es1 abli~b a. 1,01.icy 10
thh, count·r~', teHin_
g a 11atio11 th--ct h-i~ :di tbe geuiu~ to IJHfld sbir,s, that
has be-tter un,te1lal 1:ban b .r,t.s~u; •·' lo 1ny , ork~hoJnJ :must "· uy II ation
eome to ,g ~t th tuol c~if :i t lnt·r:·ntl - to UCCU[•,! f ·God.'~ ooe~n1 and. pa;rtici
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pate iu it ·with me."
Du:s t i.s thrown iu onr e3~ps ht>.re.. If any ,;ta.I or an1~1,?reat flrt'S~.o.1e
is broug'b·t to bear i.u ·\, r,c,ucbbi~ thut et.~n1u1•.~·r oo h'tnn ht ·1. ., ,i·ho \\:111 eor1tradiet n1e. in SlJ:i\'. iug tlu1 t . ·h Ls go:i 1n g to 1u;1'kc ft dtm~s11~r·1te figbt to1r· it f
Ou,e ho11dred .miHi,ous, of u1u11t•y '-'ill 1n~ke itself 1.~lt., l cau ;,lo \\"ithh1
te.n u1inuit.,H1 tnue fro1n t.be ·11,lace " ' ht~11~ I ant tHnrt 8ittiH,:Z an,:1,,·.alk j ut.o
offi ": },.s, aud count ,vbere -~ to, ,ouo,uuo of Dione\,,: :,u~e hr,•·t-~t" t~d in that. '" nteres. , while scare(i]y anyf 'bi·1.1,g i-s i ri,~ested i11 ot1r tn, 11 by 1.\.umt"I"Jt!iH·1 s.
'¥ho \\'ill tell nu, tba t tha,t $10010001tKHJ· i0t moue.J,~ w·be.r u i.t set~ fit to·
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ean·no·t make itself felt t Who wHJ tell. me that,·wlien you strike
it that, l:I00,000,.000 of money and nnd,e rtake to depreciat.e its ~lo.e bym
eo,mpe·titjo.n, there "Will not be .a JMlw,erful ioterest brooght to bear om
I.l ie oomm·o uity-on tha t snbJeett The . asiest way of all to deceive the
A.m,~·rican 11eopl . 1s to feed ·up their' id.eas with.1small trifting' ·t b:in.,gs to
catch the mintl ot.' 't he man wbo ·h a . not inve tig.a ted the subject
We are told ·t bat the rlgh't1to purchase ships. in the tthea.p est market
will do all that is needed to regain us our place as carri,e ra on the sea....
1 ha e ts-bown J:ou ooncl.u -,i velJ that the man who pa,y s 7 1Je,r ceul for
bis ca,pi.tal cannot euter iuto eom.p eti.t ion · .·ith the m.au who pays 3 per
00·0.t.,1and that t ,e man w·h,o hire,- Jab , , where it is required, at 6(1, per
cent. 'mor-e than the man ,vbo pays tllat much le .s, caooot enter1nto thia
t>o. f~,l t
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·...tition.
·
ENGLlliD'S, ·p o,L'IO ,·. ~
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· '. ow, what did Englan,d do when she had 8,700 seamien in her steam1
abi.p -,t EngJand oo.uJd build an iron steam·.hip -cheaperthan a y other
naition in tbe wo.rld,, ~nd ·t that t.ime s.b e w·as tbe only nation th · t was
bn.ildi'ng an. iron sbi.p~ She had c eap ca:p ital an.d cheap labur to
operate and run 'th" ship, but she foun,d th.at France had cheaper labor
't ha:n sh·e. had; s'be fou d that Germany, ·. orway,, and s.wede1t had
ch.ea1ier labor to u the s·b ip upon thew t.er,than sh& 1S he kne11t that
it was not 'the first.oo ..'t of' 'the s·h "p ha• ·b wl ·,n ·.,thing to d,o with it; it was
the, running of the ship, for all time after,! an,d sl~e n1ade her provbidous
,,r will
to meet tba., c_ontingeocy~ 1S h,e ·.,t ~·r ted ·ollt,·with tbe, purpose,
ro1e tb: · ·-·ea,;, I have t.."i.ed it by armies, I ha,,e tried, it by 1t·a r,1 ; t.h~y
were the 1nosteoa·.- 1y exp T'i e, ts, that could be tried.; hnt I h. ve n.e.v er
sn~ceeded.. .I wHI try· another policy.." And s,h e struck. OU't that great
'POiicy of' peace ·b y .i.nst1tuti,ng leg,i slation ,vhic'b h.e ld ont encourageuie-n t to her ,ea.p it ·lists; w·h ich sai,d to bem, '·' Yon put the ,capital in ther,e
and I 'Will give :you :ucht legislation as 'W "I.I g·uarao.t,ee you divi,d euds ·that
·l\rill J.)&y so tkat .Y Oll OO'D ,c ot the I tes ot freio: t and b,rea·k down any
op11osition that comes,; and I will g.i v e · ou. ,·. ffch t . polioy that tb e ci vUized \\.Ol'".i d and th ., m,e robants of' all na •i,on _ w·j ll distinct1~y- unde,r stand
that whoever fights G.reat Britai.n on the sea does :not :tig,h t Briti b mer,ch:a nts, but do ... ftg'b t ·, be E glish treasmy"
. I bave the ~pape111.co.ntaini g ti ose ,·e1·y identical la s, 11nd pro,ing
tha:t 'tbese thin.g s I ha,~c stated to, you w re the statutei I~ ws of Great
Britain, and sbowing the· s,p iri't in wbiob they were ca.rrjed ou~ I will
s. nd 'th papers to an.y of :,.ou. gentle.meu who may wish to xa,m1.ne,
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tben1.
Tbe CH ·.mJllN. · ile them ·w ith th~committee, a.nd we.w.i llma·k.e th.em
a part of our record
.
The 'W ITNE'SS. All right., sir. At tbe commen,eement of h.er caree·r
with a steam marine, in 1850, England., .aw t.ba,t fhat was, the l,)Olicy to
pur-N,UP,. and b tween the )"'ears 1850 a d 1882 , · .e, ha.s 11a1d to subsi,dize.1 use th · ,_,ord in the ve:r y langua:. ,e of th.,• I~ w, withou.t feai- of' b -iug
coutrJ.dlctt~d ·;: it. 'W M n,o t -for ·t his service or tha ~erv ice,, or tbe other
,servi.ce,, but lt was that ·w : requi~ . yon to do oortai.n things anil we , ill.
-:ub 'idize you and .; ive you certain amooD '_ .' of n1oney 't o-euable i ou. to
put sbips u11on tbe. ea that ·will ,d ri .·e. the ships of o· he1 nations off,
Tlnt•t it~, hat it, m,e ant-"'·subsiclize"-and. ,eao s o · yoo. the figures ,o f
th .· mnounts pa..id in order to accomplish th· t t.hiDg.,., because, a ·r evolo~
tion wa_s,go1~g,o~ b tw,een sail and s,team.t and moo did not want to ·t bi;ow
a.1 ·a,y: the. old,;,fa.shiooed sbip and take th: .·· new, an.d Engiand. \vao.ted to
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get t.bat new tool in ,pos.sessio-n of th.e B:ritish a.atio.o before ,other na:'ions
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RBLATIOJH J BETWREN' L · BO·R AND CAPITAL.
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s·he ac.t oally d·i.d go to work, and- ,y ear after year ior
the _:firs , ~eoty·. five y,e ars, while ·th.alt experi.ment was, going on, she
pa·i d m.o re than 25 per •c en.t . out of trhe EngHs · · treasury upon th.e eapit.aJ
i.n v·· sted in everi iro ·. s·t ea·m sbip s·b e hMI · doat~ To ge..t them aft.oat
abe pai,d it, and sbe, used it wi.tb the same military discip'lin,e that she.
used her guns"' Where t·b e. opposition w.a _ most fierce,. there ·wu-n t the
mos.t money;, whe~ · the oppo.eiitiou wa ·. least, the~ :· w•· nt 'the maHes.t
su 1, ·nd wb re no op,p o .itioo at all e · isted t:o her aet'ting control, none
sa·w her pol.i.e y.
w ~11t!!•
Not only ·t hat, bu.t ·F ran : began to · .· • thait the ·r oad for :1,er ·ma.nu-
f~ctored goods to the m.a rk,e ts of the world lay on ·t be sea,, an.d undor
this ,!'er . .argu:m eot used in ·t he En1gbsb Parliaw.e nt, that Frauoo ·. as
goin1: to outstrip Engla: · ,d -..I will -&e·n d you a 001,y of the la .-s--a coin . .
mission was _ppoi. ted toi'o esti.g at ;,the condition of e•.·rain 11or •. wb~oo
Ena;lts:h shipping was running·, to g,e·t pos· ,e._- ·ion ,o f their books,, to i'n..
quire into ·. ·hat tb.e v got for freight;, wltat they go-t for pas · ~_ge, wba·t i't
,c ost to ·r un t 'he shi.ps, and. tbei.r ,e arnings.. '' Strike i' he. balance~ and
then. we. will .o-ive yun a. gn , r.antie~a of 8 .P .·r cent. di videud on all ·tile
capital you iav,e, .t, un,der a ,c out.r a~ct from ·,he English trea ·ury, an.d
wbenever the di,~id . ·n d ·i s beyond 8 pe · cent~ oue-tbird o:f 1i has t-0 ,ro
·b ack to the treasury)' •Tba t . blow trnc·k te·r ror ·t o the capi li,ts ,o f t ·h ·
-~ '"' ..J. o t- h1a ·t· t 1,id. e.
.. t10 ,compet1t1on
,., -g 1u
.• a:_ho'D·ti, e·nt1:enu,
wo,r Id
B,esides that, to ,s,bo,w you the ·wjsdom of tbe IK)li.c.r, betw~o those
J ears that I spea- of - 1one. she pai.d one no.d: d and ixty-three miII-.•
·· · to.·· ti,.
~9 l!r.:'}, gr.:n I·n a dd
'°'0 ..· · ·1ULJ.~at.m~
·-· ·
.- ., · - · · ·. ..
- . · •· o
_11a(I,
. 1·t:--.ion
,-· .· 1-10oo.G,
. _ to
mones--.it1rom
1.ons
we paid ·to bier for mail ser,,,iee, 16·,000,ooo,, making over e10·9,ooo,ooo~
That fl L69,000,.000 J,ookB like an enormous ttm to pay ,oo·t of the Bugl.i ·h
~reasnry· for the en.conragemeo·t ~f one br~u1ch of u1d.ll8try, but from the
ft.g ures I ha; e sh.o wn you th.at .,1eo,ooo,ooo of mou y is les . than o,nehalf' the earnings in ooe year of fhat flee·t ·wh·icb. ,Sibe has built op ·b y
that policy. lo 30 years ·t he .· e ·.,.169,,000,000 we.I" •paid. in subsidies by· a
uation that coo.Id build the ,e·he ·_ pest s.bi:p.
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:AKE,llICA.N DIPO·LI.OY ..
look,e d at-w·l~.a·t is,·the mat-•
· ,ow, t - -. question 'is an.d :i t o,o g·b t lo oo
..
h
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b
more eoa1-_, more o.re,
ter w1·t -·. us; w · .•·re a·re we ·· .·. nation · avuig
1110-~e iron, more fores,, toore.. urplos, p,r odoct _. to sen.d ioto ·t he m.a;rkets,
of ,1 he world than a.u:,y· otb.,e r 11 t.i,om on ·· ~a,rth, Yet tbe. whole surplus.profl.nct of this .oa-tio·- i.~ going abroad in foret --n shi11s, and shou·l d a foreigu
- th
"'
. , ese
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:,.th a"t a:re •c arryin.g
occur, th_e 1-ery· ·· . h'l(lS
war cQm _ ·u p or _ er-uns.
prod.t1ct' ·. •·.·re Ii.able to be destroyed and. you have . no means of g~io.g to
u1a1.ket yo,nrsel'f~ ·.. ·- h o s113 man att ·· ·p,t.ed to go to work and .sho·,F·
bow \\1,e wer-e robbed o.f th11s, ho - b!,. a, pol.i,ey aift.er· ,- h.e war this bns:inesti,
wha.. · ..as the opposition that, b,e met. with i_
was wrencb.ed. from
Le·t me picture wba·t w,e. ha,"e been doini ·while m·illions have. 'been
paid out, on the other side . · ·•·e are .a . · though we n-e.v er ·k uew·. nything
abol1t trader we h.a·ve ·b een loading down and crushi.n_g any ,en.t•erpr.hring
man who undertook to do .· uythiog: ·w ith this tbio._g;o w -. had ·6 .. t .a
series of lawa h.Y ,vhieh ·t he America _ sbip was ta~ed by State laws 7,00
per cent.. more th:1.n the tax upon .any other ship that. ·lloots. ~be tax.
upoo tbe Americao ship under ou State J,a·w was 21- per cen·L,, a:od
that tax ahe .h ad to pay· ·w betber s'be earned fl or' not. The .S tat . of
N ,e w· York repealed that tax th~ rear before la.c..~;. but it.·. .xi ... ~·in ot·b~r.Staites. T.he rep.&1.,liHg .act ,s,houl~. be. a n.ati.o,nal la"!.. While the. ·.··.me:riean. ship pa,y s 2! p r cent. , tbe Euglish abip is ou.ly paying· a ta.~. of l
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98
REL,A TJ01.·s, BETWEE!rf I-ABO·R .A ND C.APlTAL~
~r. een.tli upol:1 her ,di_villendi- if sb.~,,•e arns one, .and !f · he D!)"" ':r earns .a.
,d1vid.e,o d sh.e 1s free from al t ·,xation Tbe A.m erican ship .1s loaded
down ·un•ler our system of m•easu.r .·me·nt, which. ·th.e other civilized n.•
..
b'~·'I.o tt. ed
t: .l o..ng ago, b ·r,· w .b..1e.h ·t 'I......
- o-e
1- 1ns1.
. '"de o f: h~e ~t1111.p
L ..
tions.
• __ on·_
'.tm w b
·1s
meas -red, 'the spaee for m.acbin.e.ry·,,coal bun·ks, tbe offieers' quarters, an:d
all, .·;a d tbe Americ:an ship · as. c·b arged with that mea ·..uremeot .a nd a
tonn.age ta.x la"'.d on th·e wh.ole size of t e ,shitt,, To illu .· tratre it ·more
plainly, a 2,000 ton American ·Jt '"p was. char,g ed equal to tll,e t : .x on a
3,000-ton E.nglit1h shi Jl, the ,differ,e·nce bein~ 33½ lJ.er ,cen ~ That law was
rep aled. last 1rear, but '\\",e ha, e been ha dicapped. with it while .Eoglao,d
was getting all thi advantage. · hen 300 s nt your coo&ul abroad he
·. ent the~ to repres ~·u t tbe s.boe trade ; be went there to repre _e·n t
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eveey Ame.r ican citizen. and. all in · ·rest-8,, but his salary was paid. and
charged by our statute laws to the s.h1p i.n the foreign trade.: tJie httle
fore,i gn trade ·we had,. bad. to })a. the consul fees.. While Great B,ritain's
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foreign trade was. 700 time'~ large•r than o .s ,. - er oo,o.so1 fee were J ·.s ·
tha,n un.e-tbird.
Tb•:n, when we tl .il..- cl and made an ,eifort. to estab,l is.b . ·t rJd,e with
forei,gu countries where. no, nommuni.cation exLted., and. ca.p-i.tal wa,s.
p .:, into the. shipping bnsin ss, under· on ·. o.f our statute law,s that shi.p
engaged in th.e foreign tra.d . ,,.. . . 'board•ed at it~ wbarf, before i't could
depart, by a Go,~en,.m ent oftl,c er ; I 1nigbt, : ay th.e ___hiJ> ,,as . · ized. '" · on
·. annot ge the 1•rotec ·,ou of 'tbis fl'o,-ernm,e11t a1.1 tl 3·our shi. J) c·· nnot sail
·11lntH -yon take the mail matter from the •. uited s·- at.·_s. po ·t -offi,ee nnd
pu't it on board your ship,,. an.(l at w·bateve·r port ~ on ma.3P' stop wh ;•f1 .
there. iH au iuericau consul you must take thi~ Ul.a il,," and. fOll must.
tak, · it to,r- wl1a.t _ For thr~ . · ,_ ntS'. ~, l. ttr-r.. \\.,.hen ~·on go to tbat port
1~00 canuot clear from it withont tbe Jl ·•·rmissio11 of tim
e Amei·iean consuJ,
and ,y ou ha.ve .g ot to ta "'e the ma n a,g aiu.
In my· e,XJ>erienc -· b tw·.·. -n here aud B.razH,, wh ;'II I look .d at th ·
bumiUatiu , ti,ond1t1on w w·e r·e in, and ~aw the nainis, t·r of the , nited
St.a;t e - "~itb hi' · statl' and ha ·g age goi11g· on oard t: n E,n.glish ship to go
to En . .land in ord :r to ,get back to Amcr1c~.:1, be cau-,e th.ere· ·wa,s n~·~mntnHic~t 1011 bet een b'i.s °'"~·n ,c ountry H1ud - ra zd , and · · ben I tried. ·to
. stabll l1 a line by putti.ng all I had into it to build it up, .and when I
tr1.ed t.h . e . perirnen't and .sk d.- .1 defy· any m.31u to ·· a,:\" I e e1" asked
tbis Gov·e·rnm,ent foi a subsidy;. I a111 Ol)J>OSed to tbat- that the l w
~bould be re-p eal .cl ,vbic- c•on1·p eHed m to do tbis, thi.n ,g ; that if the
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Government and tb -. people of the United Sta ·:,- ·waotetl hat .ervice
they s'bou1:c1 t·b ro i· in.to competition; wb •-n I dlid this., ·who· bas, n.o•t
read the. New :· ork. ·pa11er, anf1 seen nu~ hountle I do-wn :tor it .as, a '' , nb~
aid.~. be.g gar ,~ t ·, ·p·a s it a so bsidy for m,e to ru:,.. tll at · · .boold ha e. .· be
aa·me r1gb .· t.hat th _ wn1na11 ha;\i 1ng a peaun t stan(l ha .·t \V ns it a snbsid.v that ,s.boulcl iuik the rep · al of t'hi · law · ·h1.•c h compellM 1ne to do
a serviee I did not ,,.un·t to do, a1ul Y.Thich it .. as, a loss, for Dle to do, as.
l'hown. b,y th .a,:tual 1· co.rt1s of m.y O?. n 'books ·w·llich I ·p roduced.. In ·t he
li'oe . ba,-e 11Gw to Ha,~.ana I am compell,e d to dot.be sa1ne thin.g- to t .· ke
those m.ai I~".s,,v·e ar toy capita.in that be ill fai thfuU,y perfrrm the servicet
and w·ben the quarantiue s a on comes I hav . goue to,"\\r~1,.s· ingt.o n. and
,rone to tb.P Post-Office D· pi"irtmeot, and I have lai..d the question beto,t e
the Comi~1itte 011 J)ost-Offi·ce,. and Pos~.. Roads, aud.sa.i d, '' 'There are my
bills void to a tug front New York t,o l1ri.ng· the m ila tr-o:m quarantine.
a Hd deli1"er them in tl1iis ·post..office; " and my ·bills ha-re boou larger ·than
tbe ts.um be ..oited ,S tates 0t)ve.1·ument baa paid me for' bri , ,g mg tbe
wb_o,le matter froH1 ~a., . aua, .and I ha~e beea the loser.
Js it not strange that, t,bis.. ,g reat p:r ess of New y ·ork., 10 tbe interes.t of
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buildin,g up this grea oo,m mereial city, could not e that it was n.nthing
m.ooe th.a u fa,i r play tbat commun1eatt.on ,b ould. reach tb.os, . connt1'i~.s,
·', . "· su
· _-b... st,
-~d ,··-.,,, · .t. th"
· · ·,t ·1n1e
·· · I. h. a·d, capt
· .. , "' ·t···,a1, 111
. · , .', ..··te·' d. ;-, 1n
·,
Th'a t. . as, , ca· lied
. e , am
ship . "in tbe _coaat: .ise trade, an(l to bow· yon.. be 1nJustiee that was clone
to my capital ancl my enterp:n · ·. ,ou one ·1de, and the fair pla.y tbait wag
,d one · D the otb ·r, I ma men loo t.'bat- wb . n th,· shi.'p in the ,o oastiu."
trad · before.the 1otrod.oction of railroad. ~ nd •·ince th 11 wr.re qoir d to
carry the mail ·wh m po ta.I eon1n1unieat: ·on v. .t ·. ece s~¥"Y ·111 on·r co1i11try,
imm etliatel}~tbe ser,1e w·,11s atl ,-ertised or and gi ren to the lo .··est hid ..
der, and a fair t+on,pensatio-n "·a.a allowed for the s ·r··1ce ; ·b llt ,Th .re. ~ •
foreign country bad to b · . @ac etl aud ._. h
....\.meri u ea1pital wa ~ in
·eo1np . tition with fol'\eign capital the· rig.h t was tleni . d a-n d \fe ,vere oom.,., ,o,
Q
'" . th.e
pe11 -d
. ·- t o fle1.-I':1.orrm t 'h'. e service
no .b"·1-n g, th
, oog1h- .• th.,e same ·t 1m
,e rr eapital iu,,.·estecl in th , hip-, , of other conotrie .. was ·.nbsidized b~_
the J>Os'tal contn1ct s or ·hich I hav, . spok. ·n~
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I am iuterested p.robaibly in more , '11ip , in the tbreign trMle tb,,n ,lHY
one m, ·o in America, and I · biok .'· t i,1, a great wro- ,g to (..t0mpel 1n to
p rform that - ~moo..: \Vhile the law ,eom.pels ·· ie to d,o tlds,, rt doe . not
trouble the n1ercban.t. The merebant does ·n ot tak · auy interest. i · i ;
be gets his m jJ~, carried;, but repeal this law·,, an.d when the,Government
···~ ·,~n·.·s, to'~me;
--..··and · ·&J s,· '"I wan
- t-. yon
· . _ t ··. t aa..
· 'L e· t·h•
· •i i"
.- wer, ·''I
,is-. mat
, .I ·w1~·11°·
ans.
;vUI not d.o it;, put i.t up for CO·m p·. tit.ion to th .·. w·h ol,e Uni·t _d State .' and
Jet the lowest bi,d1l · r in tbe ,, ·hole United Stat . ·... g .c t itl' Theu the merchant will come fcn·th ,,_:nd m··k,e :h l , deman1I for the ex · usion of the
trad·.·. by fast mail. The Govem.meu mnst provide it
be com.pens.a•
tion paid for th, ·. , er,;eic . ha b :n Joss to :, ery l rson wbo b· _ , pe.r01rm d it.. Engl ud ..·is I,: , ·:.; n to work,, and wbe she ,got the oomplete
co·n trol of a trad,e Uk ; itb .i orfh Atl ntic,1 be ~;• 1cl, ,c. I d.o not want
any u1.or "· ,c ontraet , ; w-· c . n d•o awa ~ ith. fhe snbsi:ds; fh, oompe:tition
be'tw ~ · n· Eng11.sbmen fhe·mse v-e _, ·will d ,~·"· lt i1s l1k oui· ooa~ tiug bnsinP :. Th J7 w~, · ex.p eud.1ng their ca1>ita~I iu comp·. tiUon with on ·. another under th :. . ame law, ·uud r the same rate . oftax;!tion,, i11!tere~t, and
I bor.
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GROWTH OF CO· ST '
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C
TRADE..
· en. tbe railroad ·b usines~- foi.· iu ..
st nee, or t h1,. niauufacturing bu iue._.1, whicl1 ha~ had an,_ · such ~r,o,vth
in pro11ort1on es t..be. shi(Jpi.u g busin ··s~ . on our c ast, and l l.aave ·om1efb1ng fbrther to .·a.r ·o -:~·-011 .. ·ith 1·egard to the great ad;. au'tag,e to the:
c.on•..mner tbe (lrodue , r,, anti tb . ·. merchaut 'from ·t he re .olutiou -.hat bas
b:di:eD plac .~in f · · ch ract.er of ·e ~el put Jll to our eoa ti ug bu,si ne. s.
T 'o.. day, thou.g b it is not g -ueraUy ·know_n, \\"e ha.V"e more ir _u screw
, h111s, of grea·_ ,s pe tJ, n,or in o 1noor antl. t nna.a , all fitted for ooeau
service, than. any· nati.on in tb,e wnrJll ·:Ut$·id@ of Gre · t Britain. Take
Gal,,.,e ton, · ._ vanna.h, all be 8011th ru points; look .a t the line: w ich
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her . is no bu · ln.ess to-day, not
·ba1 . •been bni'l t u.p here whicll! lu,,-e redoe ~d tbe eost of · ·an1sportation
throu.g·b Arn~rica.u comJ)etitiou..
bosiu . .· _ ·. a: began by nie ten
,3"ea--- ··go t'bat di{l scaroel,.r xi .t bef•)re.. Wh ,n the sldpa that are ·i n
·m.v y:Yird. (01 e of whic I ·will latulch to-01orrowJ are c.o.m.pleteil there
-·iH. he t ,(K; sbi:p s in tha·t t-rade Those ,,.,es els are makiu" all the coo..
11ections between t.he South c\Dtl tbe E · ·tero cit ie ,, a1ul ti-0 m3· own.
kno . , ·1 ~ge,. b,y the co.mpet1tion 'th y IJ ·v-e. brought oat the i·mpro,Teme,o ts
made, tbe oost of tra-n, portat1on 11as been reduced m ten year" .o er :JUO
per ce-it. Wben I began tb,e re, . h ~-- l ere- two or t-llree· littl: · shi'1,1s rounu1g that woul~I rarry a.bout l,,500 bales of cotton each.. Nov,· tbere are
sbi.JtS running int,o .., a:1,ve ton that brn1g a a ~ 0,000, bal es · t oo Jo-dd.
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1. 0.· ·o_..
B'E''
TATIO
· BE ...I.1' W
· .EE11.T'"
LA"n,.o·
,.,. .J.·' ND. . c··J:I..
a.p··1
£1.L,
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E,-.. · rybody bad an id a that with the \1~on.derf11l growth of the SoD'tb,
with Te:~as multi.pJy.ing., a powe·r fnl .monopoly woul,d. grow up in 'the
tratle with the North, ·b ot ·t o tb.e su:1-pri .e of e,Terybod.y the mono11oly
Ila. 11.ot growu up, but _the hu1,ro, ·eme·n~ haT · been s11c1! th?t · grea.t
re1ln-ct10.o bas. taken 11ltLt.~ or· f1·01n 200 to aoo per cent. in -tbe cos·t of
trara -•}lOrtatiou, and ir e:ver that cos't of trausportation wa·.. ·co·mpleteJy·
.so1ved it w.a s by compet··.tion b ; tw •en the Am ·r.ican. peop'le tbem s -lves
Whoever in·v,estigate~I th.at sul~ject ·will find that there i~ no cbane-e to
[s ustain a monopoly ibr any ti.'me· an1,oug ]1ese fif_~ mil JODij of people..
· b : momeu it is iouo(l that there 'is .m oney to be u1a,d e. in an~· par Je.u]ar bnij.~nebs, capital will come forth. ao.,d .i . will 'be done1,
\\.,,ha· . i~ the res.ult o1 w·.h at has been done· ~'T_in ty :P :r cent. of he~
100 :ships. and 100 mo1·e bu]t by otber: , is la1bor,, t king it from. the mi.ue
to h e s.b ip., The cry to-day irs about bLidd~ng DJl a nal"'y·. . A yea·r a«o
wnen lJersons were brougbt before tbe. Naval Co·1n.mittee au.d la· ked
·. ,]1:etber tb,e proposed bhips could be built in our na ,-3~~yards tbey an·sw·· retl, '" No, th.ey e·oo]d n.0 be ~uilt in our I avy-J"ardsl _
v ery well ,vi~h •
out going 1 ·to a large appropri ·t.ion to get .eady." ·w eooitnotfot
that ·.sta: t. ·w hich Wll made t 1
e n lye r ' . a.-·,o, w:hen y·ou. wanted an. vy a1
:11 •w years ago a:nd started. it, ~you would. have bad the sffeets o,n the,
Clyd.e placa. ded iu.vitin,g meu to come to this, coltlltry, ·b ecauBe tbe
s.killed labor did not ., xi t here. G,entle.m,en.,I in ten ye · rs th.e skilled
la.ho,- ha . been educ.ate.d here·. F'rom n1y own ,s.ingl yar:d-and others.
can d.r0 uearly tbe same-last ye., .r· th re · as one · hip delivered in t e
iei.ty o-f New ~ ork n:~ arly every month~ T'b ~ · -m,e will. be done this year,
liVe ha.v·e now· _got tbe labor n·t ho. ·. ,e. Thhi labor· has. 'fbe.9n. edo.ea'ted...
We ha\"ie. ge·t . the t~orests aud. the mines, and we have to.day a p-ower
b ni 1t up, in this cou:n try in. case o·f an . mergenCl",, in c ~e of wa·r., in the
. n ati.on. which h~0 co S. t. ·the·
Go
-, i .e. 'P
lll :- ,,Q. -- t U1.. o.·t.·b~
Pr,1~ ,a.·..-t.·e··. w·o~rk- ,ho·•·ps 01· f thi
~
~
.1 i'.ufflic.D
ju.g, 1forth io skilled. labo.·. more than· the whole, one. bu dtttl m·H iioos
~foll ·h a.ve i~.·. es:t ed ·i.n n.a ) ,. ·.. ardL I _a.sk t e _question_if these school~
• bon -·es . for labor ,e re not started., · ha:t \l·o uld be t.h.e ·ral.ue of youi~
na,ry~lards _: •ntil ,100 put la·b or into tbem y,ou mi -ht as w·eH h .v e so
m.a uy church.es as to ha,e ·t b ·se navy-ya-rd .· , and wh.erc would th!e labor
eom . fro1J1. 1f' these sc'hools, did n.o t exi ..:t _o dncate i ; · A,e tbey not,
·.hen the cri.sis comes, of .as ·m uch importance to the nation as ski.Uetl
,s oldiers f,o-r· a.n ·· myt·
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Tbe1 · comin.g· to the qoe:-;t''oo off · e eigbt ...ht,ur la'Arl, l think .I sol,"ed
fbat question with. m.)"' workingmen. 15 ,Y ea?R a.g o ~o their- e· ·til"e satis1
fa1ction~ I · e.nt into my :workshO)l on ·. morning and
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saw .a quarter of
, million cloHars' worth. of tools and machinery s itnd1n.g idle.. Th _re
was uo more prodocti1le ·power in them than 't'bere ·was m · o many tomb
stooe .•·.., Tlle id.e,l is truck. me most for,c ibly, '·'·'Wllere did all this. ·w ealth
oo:me from,. and what are
these tools and maehiuerJ wortb with.o ut
labor 1 1 ·,v . n i out of the 1shop ,·i th my head d.own, and I looked around
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the coroer of the street and I ~a.w from _:veto si • butJ!d red men s.i ttin_g
do\,9.D~ They might a~. ·w,ell be tbe ,oorptles boned under the tombsiooes.,[
for tbey were :n.o-t produciug aoyt'luug- Th .re wa·s.the cha m-labor aind
cap:i tal at war, .n either 1~rod11-ciog anything. It bas been stated ·th.a t
say labor· mu t uot antagonize capita),, and c:ipital mns.:t not dare au.tagonize labor; each m.u st
lba:,~fi!. that right v.,.hich belongs to i.tli I called a few of I he. leatlin,g · wen
to)?•C..the·r.. · be iss-ne ·w· ; ·not wages; it wa · who h.ad a .r1.g·h t to rule;
I sai,t labor· mos~ not anta_g onize oa:pital..
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101
RELA:1.· IONS BETWEEN LABOR AND c / ·· trA·L~
·whether these men were to work for· me t en · ·o,u rsor ~ .etherth ·y were.
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to work eight..
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I _said, ,.,. will. _adapt ·m.y •·.·.·If to sn1.t ·.-our ~D~itto·n :for
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·perim.e nt." I found tha . the only . :·3;y to get alou,g mth labo:r was
to be kiad antl geut-le and. to discu•.· . su.b jeets wi bcn1t '.6• .- u. g o,r p,a ssion;
<1.scu ··. th.em .··th th ~ i.dea that th . y mii gh · be ri· ht, and were.certainly
going to ba,,.e fai'r pl·•·y. "I •hall,. tb n,, for·an experiment, ring th ~. bell
for quittin,g .· ork twice a •d ay for th · tntu·re.. Go bac. to_you:r ork.
~.ball ring it a ,. ei _r1b bou.r ,, so, t at you can q-1it at iubt hon_ ., and r
s.b a I r:ug i - at. t,e n hours, ·t o gi... ·· ,e very m·. n his choiee who "Wi ·be·. ·, to
quit at-the _·nd oft n bour,s, ·bu·t I rs ball pay b the boor" I shall giv·e
~igh 1101.r.s '' p·a y to th
1gh ·-hou ·me. a.n d ten hours' p · tn th ten;o
hour 1nen. " The~" wonld not aooe1>t that propos1.tion; tbe-;s: must luive
tbe teu bonr .~, J1a::,:· for tb . tiight bou: ~-·work~. ,e;. plained to fhem, u · -on
a . only :,. ll"n . two hour . of ]ej, ure time to :•ncrease th · ,oost of J'our
li'fing ·20 per cent. • yon are o.n a , king 111~ to ooucef1 ~ to you t, ,o
liours mo1·e lei. · u1 ti1n . · and a.dopt a pol1cs th.at would m1ake yon r,a,v
.JO 1,>er cent~ more 'for a1. yollr liv in,o-..' "'' How i ,that . " I took up•a pa}ler t-r/u1ilar to that I s.h owed you h re, ,rf,·iug a s'tat -meut of ·• ·lutt 1':a ·im1·•orted into thi country-·i t ·was true 15 y eara ago .as Jt is, uow-and
I J>Ointe<l o, t to t h,em t be hand·1 ~ · of million.s. o · dolla.riS' ·wo•.tlli of to:r,eig11 inantU~;H,tored good8, .uch as I and, other manufa,cturer ' 'Qr · r8
mak·iu.:' , tba1 ,x . re 00•1nin: ·"· .to thi'. coo.utry at that ·t ime under th._, t. u.
e ·is ·ing law-.. ·" If,," sa-i.d l,. ·' by :ronr eig · t.~bour la . · y:o ad.d 20 per
,.en · mo . to th. cost of lte home 1irodo.ctio , bow mocb more will come
in I The v·,e rv i<l · of hat -·ight-honF law, 011·1 s. our r v nu _ laws.
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r · could not be
wer ,changen, would ·lose every factory in the ·iandi
It " ~oulcl add. to ·b . ,e n t of -h - arti . Je, ncl if yuu in ..titute
t'bis e'i,g: hour 1S.tem, you. .must call fo another Jaw that ·ill gi¥e you
p•r otection agw.ust the iocretUed •CO t o,f w·b at you are prodnoi.n g.
i he car1 · · nter, t,b · -- ason, ..h• - laborer, the 1•a.i11ter-, the 1,lorn her, a.nd. .be
ga. -fitter who do tbe ,r,or·t .u.pon yoor h.r0use only work eigh . hours and
demand te . hour 'p -Y, wil'I not our rent iocreaA '" ,, Yt"M.n ·" Will not
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the. ~os.t of the clothiHg on our ba~k iuc.rea _e f ,,, '' Ye. .'" " . bil•e J·Ou
are t~Jkin,g of f.'he '\1i onderful im11:rov,e m.e nts :m ade by 1nacbiu ·y, ta,k e ··oto,
,c,o. · •·. derat100 that th ~ r.· m.e r' man has a ., mu.ch of a. right to tb ·s laiw·
a· yoo. Can such a law be made expre,s sl - for~ roiuori y of labor·, or
shall it he ·m ade for all It bor f · h .n .u.p pose _y ou d •·rnand tba·t tb,e man
sw·ho cultivates and. w·o rk . on •· fa'lr111 · 'h all be redu.ced to t.b -:ight boor
· ,3· t . m, sim1ply because the m ·. ,~10.0-.. wachine,. the thras'hiH_g -maehin ,
and the ·r t piug-maebine ha~e don.e the work of lots of :men, will uot
tba t 1 .c a ·. the price ,o f l our· food " '' ·,e s."
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TJ .e question wa ., le.ft,an o_
peo question with th ·m, ao(I aft er the mat.
t r ·. as e . plai . e(l ·had. no, more ·t rouble of th·- t kind, and ba, e ·11ad none
, ioce.. The .n1en went .to work and they preferred ,vorking t,e n honrs'aod the· better ,e las · of them are ,,.ery a • iou .· · to work twrelv·e. hours,. i' 1
th y· oon ,g ·t tw lv, bonr, ~ pa for twel e· :hoo1Y ork.
· ·.·ow, •COm1ng t~ ~b t,ottom of ·t his :snbj oo·t_,;to ·the qn,estion of' l.abor
fhe amonn·t of labor tbat c1aim , to be dissa.tis ed i · oul a . m.all .m inori. 3".of tbe ~ -h.o lel_'bor. l _say ·~o ...from. my o.~o. e J)e·rien~,_ eou6n'i.ng
m . .· If to the Iabo:r fro . t e
ne to the ··.., · ·u fa1c·t ured artiete, that all
the men w.ho are enga_
ged in lu,t ooonpati:,on ,do not. ·b e,) eve th.at it is.
~el I for tb.-m. t,o ha·. e. 0111 ·. eight hours. So that out of hat cl ass ot'" 'Ja..
bo
].one th ·. :re ·i s on·l y a small m"nority 'in f: o of' eigbt hours~ Tak ..
iug he Jabor class of the Un ~t,ed States, in 1880, there were on the farm·,
e.n g ged .in cnlti,; · t1on., 7',070.,493 labore~ ·, w·b ile in e er1 .· .a aufa-etur""
·iog interest from 'the min.e np to the cotton factory there were 3,83,7, 112_
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102
l:EL -·· TION -. BETW.E KN L -~·BOR A.ND c . ·.PITAL..
· ere . .as Jes,. 1,,hau one-half of the · bol,·· laboriog po-pulation engaged
in 1nannfactor111lg indo tries, and more than ,one.-balf of t'hat minority tolla,y does not believe 1n this gre~;t 01 _tcr, abol1.· i m.a 'k in.g l:aws to suit
labor.. It is only in the onll a 1Sm.a ll n1ino.r ity of tbe class su.p posed to
b ., ag,i rieved that i~. .a ·.'t.iurr for 'Je.g~sla.tiou o the q_n: :,tio11 of labor, a1ul
th .~u if yon analyze a.nd IDl • ,. tigate aud. go throu, .h t.hem. a.s a class you
,,. :i ll :find. · bat, n1an:f of tbos ·. wbo c;ry ou·t a,g.~1.iu, _·t _great Ja.ud monopolies
.a:n tl a I 'those thiug . . ~r•H fhe last peo1llc on •· a rth ..~h,o : , er· ... ant t.o go
and. ,occupy tbe 1aud anyhow. I ,,~ou.ld u.se all t he iuflu.eDce I ha.,,.e _
got
h1 urwing the Sena ors anti Repr seuta.tives from this State. ·t o secure
the J)il~ ~ ago of a Ju w to ,N. pproJlriate and ~i,Te IOU acr s to men who oti'ld
~ettle u1_,,J wnr1~ on the laud ;, but n1J~bones· ._01,i.o ~o · is th at the fc ··e st
of he 1ne;H "?l10 \\·oultl ·be i~oun:d to tak.e that ]au,1 for nothia:g an(l w-ork.
it "'onhl be frozn that cla~s ,,Tho c.ry out , l;u1d 1nouopoly.r.
THE WOR.K fNG'l lAN S DA.--GER.
The P'teatest ,t lang~r the ork1ngu1an of tbis country has to guard
a.gui nst i tbe · ont1'erru·1 war I s1>oke of that t". ·no ,. 1naugi1. .· ted all o·v er
the ci·\":iHz1ed. wu1.·1d, tbe 10.ightl n.p·r i io,g of labor, and the pressure that
·i s lnuugb · to 1,ear ou t.he a1·mtocracJ"of the older countries who own
tl1e 1nin.e, the for,e.s.t,, nd the soil, and p~rticllht.rly among those ua·t ions
where the 11eo1>'le h=1,~. n.o ,..01~e in tbe la·w. That 'i.nfluen.eAl is reachin.: ·
h:h bea·, .ancl i b.~h1ging about a m·ight.y upheaval of lalior, and so·Dle-,
tbin.g haM got to be. d.o 1e F 0ftli.g n nation,s are reachin_g oo·t with Itheir i ·geuoi.ty, with all ·t heir <l~·pto·maey, with all their influence., to tbl'
Jifte1·ent ·m a.rkets th ·t a:r e uitable for th.e m to r,e acb,, .· nd through tbe
J)Ublic pres :; aud otb.er ·Le tlley are gettiuu 11p, p,iau ible arguments,
·v..~JJicb l"ery often am honestl.)1' ex11re :. d ·p u.b Ucly by our papers, that
fall into the trap beean e the rt -J m.otives are not understood., 1f h .y
are ,c ootend'ing with one - uotbe,~ ; each nation. is, trivin,g and ~trng=Hng
to oontrol bis o,wn mark et for his own labor; he is os.in:- 11 mauuer of
d :11,Joma~y to con -rol -th.a t m _rket for hi . la~or; and thi,s is the, great
b··1t~·1~ ,gro110itl, the m:arket t 'he~ - woul,d a.II lik.e to g·.-t, aud they -,ould
all lik.e to pay for ·tbi,s euor·mous, a1uou.nt of raw m.ater.iaJ, of bread and
cotton aud o her prodn,e·frt.,, w · ·,c'h t'b .· . mast ba\",e from u -,. in the goods.
of their own c,ou.otry.,, in pla,ee of sending us their gold,.
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ENGLISH ;S [PPI G DRA.WBA.C01
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T'b ere i one tbilu,g :m om in regard to En,gli h sb.i ,p,p,ing that I would
like to ,suggest. · ,o show yon ,vhat ·E.o,g land has d,one to establish her
s.b11l'pin.g, beside · ·w hat l have already mentioned~ she p ·· ifl. oo,t i.n one
year,, l867, o .e r ·t _o and a half million do1la1Y in dr.a,wba,e·k - . D.r.aw·back · hav·. boon talked of to aid, oa.r · 1sbipJliug,, The drawbacks. Ob. i10~
port · d goods obtained by th.e hipping of Grea.t Britain i.n '86:7 amoutrted
to ·2,638,76,2. This large · um wa taken by .E ngland from her ·t reasury
,. 1 Jlr1v1.ege
'" h-,e·r 11:iiue
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.t o b-.·er ~ b. 1· pi~ . g enga1ted.,. 10
with to·r·ei,gn, countrie , It, was as mt1ch a. system of 1>rotection .a gain .t
the natiun ·be ·w a , running in cnmpetiti.oo ·w ith a ·, our ·1),r otectiou Oil
th .· land. White sh,e taxed her ,vork1uan. for the 'Use of it, · ·I Ue she
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axed everybody· ,o f h r own popula·t ion, yet to aid that ahipping .s be
ga,~e o-nt in t .at y~a_r .alone S~,1638, 762 in the fol'lo·w.in,& ~rticles: Uocoai,
,c offe , ,corr_'! lts., .,m1_1ns, 11 ., brandy., ·· uga.r (refi:n ed )i, m!l L _.. .et, tea, to-
bacco, &c.. W.hJle the workman could n:o·t ·t a-e his enp,of -ooifee without
11,a yi.u,g ,a, ·t ax, upon it, yet .he oheerfoll) paid the ooflee tll1ty.. ' ·bat was
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in fact a law to aid the E1ngli h 811.ip-own,er to feed his crew che-..a1ier than
tbe sam.e number of men could be fed iu . ·, ny o,ther ocou:pat1on. She con~i ved th idea of maritime supremacy,,and wa·r a·n.d ~liplo.macy were to
be 0_sed, · ,e altb aud.ever..- tiling were to be sacriti,eed to ae.eomplish t'bat
(lbjec.t . · Sbe left nothing on.d on · to attain it; sht, ·1ias. attained it, she·
l11u g,o t it, a ti sb. will no-t 1e ·1 it go, anil t'l1e ,s-biUy~ ha,11 talk. of gi,··in_g a little pig-- irou, or
ogle-iron, or S0·1oe other kind of ir-on to a 1oa1a
here duts· free, 'to boilfl a ship to ,e·n ter into com-peti·tiou with her.,,is aH.
nonsense-. ·_ ·-·_e cannot ran the ship i.n competitio n with ·h,e r cbea11,,e ap~
'i·t al and cheap labo~.
y Mr-. C_At.ii" :
Q. ,vhat do you un,d erstao,d the m,e aning of the word -' d·r awbac - "
in t'h -En · Uall la·w·t;c_·1 b ·· ·-- A. Thi - ·is - ·hat was done. und •-.r the u d:raw·..
back" .law .. Goods reqoir~d for sbi·p - engage.-, in the foreign tt"dde ,o n
,. Jlicb ·t h ~rn w.a - a do·t y to tb amount of _·· 3,·638,762.,, w, re taken. frou1
hood fr-ee of duty· to euable the ship-owner ·i n the foreiga · rade to feed
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the crew and. pas eng-e rs -heaper, and. 'th'ns ·-ail the ', ugU - ·- ship,,c h ape·r
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than other nation . ,c ould sa,il t'beir s'hips~
Q. Does11t uot meaiu for ·:rie ~expor~tio n -. . was,•· Ho-- ed to, take it
for re-•e · .p ortation out of England.,. not for ho:m,e consuwpti ou..-A. No;
it as, t'ak,-D for the use of the en3w·-o f the ship.. T·h.e sbip p·r eseutoo its
r,·_ qnis.ition t 'h ait ,s be w.a oted under proper ,g uarantees giv,e·n that -__ Blount
for the use o.f the--crew.
Q But it con'I, not be used -or· bo·me oonsnmp·tion !-A... It, oold ·be
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no ad.--antage for England. to import that from a foreign. -coun.trJ·., bring
it in·to her co -tom-house, take carie-of it, and re.ship it~_4u.ty· free ..
Q~__ E ·n. -J , nd would not allow her sbi.-p owners to sell :1.t in Englaud --A,
,oh, no; of course not.,
B-y tlte CKAIB.X&N ;
Q~ It was to saiv-e so ·much of the running: ,e -pense+ -, of the .ship 1-A
It, was actually a bonns giveo to :aid in ,oo,mpeti·t ioa with othe·r- nat.ion~
w·h en. th .__-. bad all tbe. adv.ant& ·, e -, of' wb"i.eh I .h ave ~]ready spoken.
.M_rl p- UGH·:·
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Q. It wa - not m -_, -good forto.ne to, be. ·p resent w·h en yoo were fin·t e ..
amined. I tlo not wau~ to d.i&cniss. with you the. correctn-e -~s. of·any of
,YOU opinions on ·b ese important sobJ@Ct . , but I desire to ask you a
pinion and. of your i'ufor111a."
few ,q,u tione. to get the be·nefit, of )'ODr o_
tion ior pu.bli-c as -s"' I u.o:derat-ood th.at ,yon s.ta-ted whe-n. you we r e ·f irst
-exa, -·i ned that s -011 coald bu.i1d a ship i·n -thi;s ooo:o try and pot ·i t afloat
ready for the carrying trade as cheap - _- -, they could in SootJa;nd., Did
)"'OU make tha..t s·t aitement ·_ - .A . . •·:o, -s ir·.
Q. It was published tha _ w y ! Ai l ourreeted that :b e:r e to--dar~
Wb _- ·t I stated was that we bad r_ be ,ooal, the ore, ·t be lim,e tone,. the,forest.,. and l-n the 1nateriails to bniltl tbe rshi.p in t'heir uatural state as cheap
as any other ooo:n try in th -_ worl,d and of better q:uality, ·b ot that raw
material befo . ·_· la·b or wa.s ppli d to,it wa!S onlly 10 periC!e·nt-. of tb0 value
-0f the co upleted ship, and · bat, to makei it a sbip w,e 'had to ad,d 90 per
"''" - nt. of l ,bor, aud t.hat 00 p r cent., .o-f l _b o, co t us 70 ·p er eent. m.o re
than it did any ot·her country in ·the world; consequently., when the
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slli'p wa-s eom.plete od. ftni bed --h e cos;t ·m o,r e D1ou y he.r -e tb · n in anv
c·haraete·r of our labor' and _· b.e
G•t ber country of' the wo-ld; bu·t by the 1
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100
RELATIONS BE1·w·E EZ, LAD-O n A.~ D CAPITAL ..
__
El-ery body had an i,d ea that wi.tb. the ,vou.d.erfnl growth. of th.e Sou.'t h,
1".ith Te.x,as multi11lyin_g.,. a powerfal monopoly wonld _g row· up in -t·b e
tra,le with the Nortb,. but to the sui.·prise of e,. ery bod)~tbe monOJlOIJ
1
has. not gro .. ·n up, but the itn1i ·o,·em-en.~s haT·e been such ·t hat a grea·~ -
reduction hns takeo place of f ~ou1 280 to ,300 per ,cen ' in 'the cos;t
or·
tr.;;1u· portatiou, a:o(l if ev-er tl1a-t cost of trausportatio,n was com1lletel,y
solv·ed it ·wa, by competi.tion be tu een. tbe American. people. the~nsel,res .
: hoover in,· tigat@M that sub•!ect w1l] find that ·t h · re i' no chance to,
so.s tain a mouo11oly for nn~f time among these 6fty mUlionij o:t· . eople.
The ·mom.:n·t i.t is iou ,cl tba··. th : re is money to be made ·i n any :particulat'" bns.ine&s, c : p.i .tal ,1.-i I ~ome forth aod it will b -: done..
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\Vliat is the .r,esult of~ what bas been done •· Ninet,y per cent. of these
100 ships and. 100 :mo:1e built by otbers i , labo,r , tak.ing it from. the miue
to, tli.e ship. The cry ·to-,day is a~ont bui1~_1ng _01•. a na,. . J A year ago
. l1en 1,erso,n · .·em broug'bt before ·t he N ·.ial ,C ommittee : ud a:s·k ed
whether tbe pr,o_po~ed. hh.~ps cottld be built, in ou·r .nav·y-yards they an ~
s.we·redt ,., ~ o., thsy con1d not be. bui.lt, in our na,,.y·-yams ,-ery we II ,:vith ou·t goi· I" into a large appr,01,,ri _tion to get .r "ady." · · ,e re it not for
th.at start . hic·h wa" ma,1,e ten y . a.rs ago w.ben yon wanted. a 11.a·v y a
few· l . a1"1 ago and started it, you would 'have had the ·~treet-s. on · he
U\}'de placard .· d in,titiDg· m·. n to eome to this countcy, becau,:.e fhe
,k dled. Jabor did not exist- be.re. _,, entlemeu,, in teu ye~r,-, tbe skilled
labor has been educated b re.. ·F rom nly o,w n ·. ~ugle y ··rd----and other ·
can do oe · rly tbe ,s :ame-la~t _·. ear t'bere · as oue ship del1veftfl. in the
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ui ·• y or · ·. •e ,w York nearly •~ very month The ·• · •·-we w'ill be done tbi:s year
,v have now g-ot t,he labor at home. Tbis labor· b , s bePn edacated.
W ha·, ,. e got ·t he· fore t · ,a nd the .mines, and we have to~day, a power
built up in 'this country in case of an. mergency, i n ~, of war, in the
. crnst the Go,.·. rumen', noth~
skilled labo,r· m.o ~ than· the w bole one l1u:J1dred ·miUioHs
pi--ivate ·w orks.h ops of tbw ·n ation,, which. h
iug,. worth ·in
:ron have 1nve~1ted in na,V) -yanls
I ask 'the qu tiou.1f these so·b ool. houses for Jabor w . re no·,t ,s tarted., wh t \\"ould be tb '1a'l ne of your
na . 5 yanls ~ Until , Oil1 }ll1t 1abor into them J'"OU migh't ,a s .. , e ll have ·~,o
many c'b urcbe .' aa, t-0 bave ·t hese, o.a,v y~yard.s., and where would. b:e labor
come rrou11f these scbools, did ·n ot ,exi.st1to edncate it . Al'·~. tb1ey· not:,
w'.ben the c:ri b1 com,e s, oif as much i · portance. to, t·h e nation as ,s.'kiHed.
soldiers for a1u, army!
.
THE EIGRT~BO . B LAlV.
Then coming to the qu.e:.\tion o ·· tbe eight h(Jur hi,v, I
thi'ok.
I sol,,?()
that .question with mJ," working,01eo lo years ago to, their entire aatls""
fliction I '1 eot in.to W)''" _w ork ·bop one morning· and 1 -s aw r. q_u a ter· of'
a m1ll1ou dollarrs ' worth of tool · and niacbin -ry standio.g idle. Tbere
w:as 110 m.o.r e. producti.v·e power:in th . ·m ·t han t'b re was fn so m.any tomb.stoHeS.
he •~ea.~truck m ·, m~
ost to-rci.bly_,1,, \V ltere did a.II this ·wealth
oo·m e fror , · nd w:h at a.rie all tbe ~e tool , and machinery ·. urth ,ithout
labor ·..'' 1·,,,e nt oat oft. · e sbo1• ,wit'b n y bea,d do:wn, and I looked.arouud
the ,c-0rner oif the s:tree.t. and I -saw from fi\''e t,o ,si ·. hundred. men aittlng
d.o,1·n.. They migbt as welt be the corpse · buried under the tombstone,s.,
for to ·y 'W eie ot ·p rodu,c ing anything.. Thet e was the cbasm.- J.abo:r and
capital at war, neither· pr,0 tlocing . n.ythiug~ lt bas been . tated. ·t h t
I saitl labor must D·O't antagon.1ze: capit:al.. I say labor m.ust,11ot autago~
nize, ,c apital,, and capital nusit uot d.· re antagonize labor; each mlfflt
baYe that rig'b t whic'b beJcwgs to it. I caJled a few of tbe. leadiug men
tUJ?'~ther. The issue wa..~. not w·a gea;: it was. ·w ho, had a right, to rule;
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RELAY.ION ·. BETWEEN LABOR J.1'"D CAP·I'rAL~
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·w·b ether fh@se m,en we~e to w·i0rk for ·m.e ten h,ooE or whether 'th.er · ere
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to ·work e.i,gbt..
I said.,, "I ·Will adapt. myself to s-u.it your ooa,di.tio-n. for
a.n -~- perimen· .'' I found t at tb - ou·Jy way to get along wi.tb ·1abO'r was
to be kind and ,g-entle and to discuss subj,ects without. feeling or ·passion;
d·i scuss th ._· 10 ·w ith the id·, a. that they mi,gbt be right, aud _ ·re oortai.nl:1
goiHg to ba1 e fair play.. '' I :s hall.,. then, for an experiment,. ring· the· hell
(or q_uitti.ug wor'k t~ice a tlay for the into r • ~o, ba -_k to _y our ·wn~k-~
I ball ·r ing i't a ight. b 11.r s, so t .a t yon can quit a·t ·.- 1ght boo.- ., .a nd I
shall rlnig it at, ten bou·r .-·. , to gi,~e e1;:er:r man Jilis choice who ,~; -,bes. to
quit a:t, th · ·• -n.cl , ·f ten bol1r.s , 'b ut I Hhall ·p a;y by tb,e. honr·. I sh~ll give
eight 11oor-- ,, ·p ay to the eight-hour men a.n d ten. hoqrs' pa._v to the ten;;
bot1r 1nen," T ~b eJ· would not .accept that proposition; tbeJ, mus. b· ·ve
the teu ho11r8' Jlay for tbeeig.h t hours' work.
explai111ed to them, "'Yo·n
a e- on],~. . s lUn.ni, two hours, of lei ure time to increas · the cost of Jtour
H¥in,g :20 - er cen ·~; you a , · onl:f a king rn~ to- concecle to :rou two
liours mo1e lei ,nre tiu1e an.cl ad.,opt a policy that would ma·k · ,yon. 11a\.2,o l - r c -nt _ ·m o ·· . for al] ~your living.'' "Bow is t .a t -_· " I toot UJ) a. pa~
))er shnHar to that I showed ·1~ou .he~• . il'"lng a ·~tate · ent of what- waa
~
d. 1n
. t o t bi 1"· conu·it ry-i"' t. was tri1,e 15· _. -ea.r ~ ago a· . 1t
. 1. .. now-and·
1n1J)Orte
l tta•iint~cl ont to them the hundred ,. of DJi1lions of dollars' .orth of for ..
eii,gu inanufnetnred goods, such a _ aud 0th.er manufac-~ uttr-~ " · •re
makiu_g,. that \Yere ,001niug into tbitt cooutry at tbat tim _ on.der the t ·eu
. g l.aw.. I.' If"
. h -. h our ·1aw yon add
· . pe1
. x.1. t1n_
. ,,,. ""'r-,.' sa1..d- I 'b 3,our el;o,
. -. .20
•~ut. wore to t.h · cost of _,b · home Jlrod.n-ctio:n, bow n1uch ·m · re will come
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'The verv ·i(lea of that eight-boor law, unless our ret'eno ·. laws
ere changed, would clos · ,e very factory in fhe ·1a.nd.!! I ,. could not be
oth,erwise. It ·wouhl .ad,d to tbe oos 1· of the article-,, ancl if you in ·t itute:
thi.s. eigh.~bour syst-e , 3,ou .m u -,t ea,Il for anotb.er law that willl ,g iv, .rou
J)rot c- tion a .ains,t th e iueri -a~ed oost of what you are producin,g, If
the ~'lr_pe·nte.r, ·11 be mason, tbe laborer,.tb.e paiuter, the ·p101nber, and .· b~
gas .. fitt •r who •d o th wor·k .o:poo. yoqr house only work ,ei_
g ht honrs and
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d,emantl te"n. hour,s~·pay, will not your-rent inereas.eT" ''· Yes..'' "Will not
the cost o-f the-clo.tbi.ng on J .ur bae.·k in . , .· · ·..•t" '' Ye -•" "" Whil,e yon
are talking of th.e ·wonderlo.l imp·roT"ements ·ma,d e,bJ, ~acbi.nery·, take into
eoo8lderat io:o. that t,h e farmer's man has as mucb of a ri,g bt t.o tbi·. I _w
as .Jl oo.. Can sucb a law be :ma.d e. expre,s sly for a minon.t y of l a:bor, or
sh.a·u it. be ·m ade for a1·1 labor, -· ·hen ,s.upp-ose you demand 'that the :m an
,:h o cultivates and wnrk . ·. on .-. farm sha.11 be reduced to t.b . i.g bt--b.ou.r
- SJ St ·:m, sim1ply because tbJ~ mowi.ng-mach.i ·,e,, the. ·t brasbiug~mac'hin ,
. ·ud he rea.piug-~m.achiue . :av·e done the. work of lots of men, will 11ot,
tba t increase the price of Jrour food,..,, '' YeB.''
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The quea .i.on . -as l . ft a·u. open 11oes.ti,o n. with them, n(l after th . mat~
ter was ,e xpl l in.ed I had no mo·r e trouble ot· ·t ba _kind, and bal·e bad none
since. ~b.eme·~ went tt? work and they pr-efcrrett ,vo,r ping· ten hoam,
aud tbe better cla·._ of tb, m. a~e ve.r3-,. anxious t.o w-ork twelve hon~~, if'
·t b·e·~V h'■;;g.
!]!i,n .'.get
- s,,,· wor
.k
:· ._ twa]'l"'Q,
· --~ T~ bou
_•.. ..~'1p·ay ·e.or
u _ . t W·elve 'h_onr.
Now,.com1iug to ~b,e hottom of this s:nbject~to the question of·l.aborthe amoon.t of labor that claims to be ·,dissatisfted is oul1 a small miu.ority of ·t he whole labor~ I . ~-Y ·n,ow from. •Y own. ex:peri,e nce, coufinin.g
m.y,self to the labor from the mi.ne to the ·manufactured article, that all
the men . ho are engaged in that ,o ecupati,o n do not be)ieve that 'it is
weH r,o _ tbem to have,only· eight houn.. So t 1hat ont o·f ·t hat class of labor ~ lone there is. only a smaJ.I :minorit)'" 1n fa or of ei.ght hours. Tak..
i11g· t e labor class of the United States in 1.880 ther,e we·r e on f'h.e farm.,
engoged in cnltivat1on, 7 ,670,,' 93 laborers, while in ev·er~r manu-factnr . .
10,g interest.front t'be m·i ne ·1 .p to 'tb.e.cotton factory -the·r e were ,3 ,837,112.
.LD
·_ . .. ~--
Ai
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l02
J:ELATJONS, BE,T W'E B: _ L ,ABOlt AND C PIT -L ..
Here was l ss, tha.11 one . . bal,f of tbe whol. Jabotiog popu.latiou euga ,ed
111,,•· t· th 1,.
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t ufl. n g tn.
,., d u : t'r1e·
,. s, an d, m-ore ·th'-. an 0!).0·'b a11
..
...
in 'ID an niao
o _ 1-., _m1Dori..
1y t o..
<lay doe..s not belie·_-e bi thi.s gr .a - ontcry about. making laws to suiti
'labor. lt is onlJ JH tbe c1nl a sm l'l niinority of the class supposed to
be aggrieved that i a. . kin« for le"gisla.tion on t'b.u questio · of labor, and
tb _ri,Jlf if ,,·ou analyZi: and in,"e tigat - and go thron.g-b them as .·, class _y ou
,ri.11 find that, m,tny of those - bo cr5, ont ag,rtiu .t ,g reat land monopolies
a 1ul all t bose thing,·- am th , bl' t 1►eo,11lc on earth 1\~bo e,Ter ·w ant to go
antl occupy tbe Jaud :au,y·uow,. I would use .11 the iuftuenoo I ha;, e got
i 11 u r,gi n.g- t-be enato-rs a1u1 Reprus.e u.t ati ,~e~, from thl S,tate to soc11re
th CJ 1)assage of ·t la,v to ~ p J)ropria·te a ud gi l~- · 160 a.eres to m n \V ho won Id
,~ett:Je und wo1·k on the, h1-ud; but n1~y honest 01►inio is that the fcwe.~t
ot" th •" 1n ,u " ~h.o \\·oultl he foinnl to tak,e th a I.an,] fo£' . otb ing an,d work
·i t ,vo ul d, be fron1 that cla ~s
o cr,·
out ' and •no.u.o,poly."
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tbe greatest dang,Pr the ·w ur -iug .·utu of' this G~nnt.ry ha _to guard
a_g ains·. i~ the ·onderful war I si)o ,.. e of tbat i~ now·inaugurated all over
tl1,e eil~ilize<l w,orl:d, tl1e 1nigh - ~' o_
p,r ·~fng of labor, and tb,e p,1essure tba-t
h; hr,o ug·h t to bear ou the Uil'istocracy, of the older coo·n tries who own
t I 1e 1nioe, th,e forest,, a1:1d 't,b e soil, and particnlarl3· among ·t hose na't iou -,
wb re tbe ·p eeple ha,.,.e no ,~-01c,e i.n. the la,w, That influen00: is reaching·
.h ither, and, i bringht , about a mi,g ht,3, upb,ea\'-a.l of lal1or,. and so et I.ting 'ha " got to be done. Forfli.g n uations are reac- ing oo.t with. all
tb . ir in,g ·unity, wit'h all. th.e:i r' flip,l omacy, with .all their in~ L1e:nc.e, to the
diffei-ent markR .. that ,a re suitable for them to, reach, and thron,g b 'b.
publi.c p,.res -, and otherw11
se tb _·_- are gettina np plaus,i ble arguments,
Vfhich v ry o£ten are honestly ,e ·11reased publicly by our ·p :p ers, that
fi1.ll in·to the trap beeau ~e th.en.al motives are no-t 110.d,ersrood, -Th y
ar,e conteud.'ing .itb on~e au.other ; ea~ nation _ii . triving and ,~,t rogA'liug
to ,ttt1ntrol his owu ma.rke't for hi -, own labor;: be is using all ,m anne'r ,0f
di1domacy to con·trol that mal"k,e t foir his, labor; aud, this is, tbe great
ba,ttle ground,. th.e market they would all like to get, ~nd ~b _:y would
all 1.tke 't,o pay for this e.n.orm ons .a1uouut of raw 111aterial, of brea1t and
,o orton and, ot'b er p,r oducbl, 'Which tb.ey m. st ·h ave from us, in. the goods
of tbe·i r owo eou.·o try, iu place of s.endin,g us their _gold.
-. H. SHJPP'JN":-·G D
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- "l·Q·L,--.I S
EN
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Tb · re is, one, thing m,o re in r,egard to Eng'lish ·-_ hi.p,p1og that I would
like to su~gge.st. To show you ,vhat England has done to establish her
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h t l h a,e _,1.re~
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shi11p1ng,
,D tm,l - ,e s w ,- a
'ID --~~•oue
pa.1"'d..
_ out in
one
year, 1867, over two and. a ,balf' million dollart1 ·in d'rawbm,ks. Draw-hacks 'Jave been talked of to ,. dour shipp,i ng,. Tiu, dra,w·b aeks o,n import -d goods obtained by the sbip,p iog of Gre _t Britain,iu - 867' am.ou.nted,
to $2,ir u8,762. Tbis lar.g e. _. um was ta en by En.gland from her treasury
and given ,as ,a special pr1vi 1eg,e to be·r ·:bip_pin_g engag,e d in her trade
wit'h tb.relgn oonn'tr.ies. It wa-,_- as much a system of protection against
tl1e nati.o,n ·hew.a s running in competition with as, our prot ction on
t11e la, d. While ·e ta'- .,etl her work1uan fort.be use of it, _- bile sh1e
t~ ·; ed e,,.,e_rybody of her own po-p olation, Jet to aid tba.-t shippinfl!' s,b e
ga,, re out in that y·ea.r alon,e 12,,,638, 7'62' in he;folio ing arti.cles: Uocoa.,
coffi _-_ ,, cu.r,r an -.-., rai_:ins,, ru.m, brandy_,, -•~D.b~r _r('refi_n ed.),, ni.o l ,:ses, tea, tobacco,. &c, Whil.e the,workman ,e onld 1u),t ta.k e bis cup of coffee ·without
11arin,g a tax up0n it, y,,-t lie ,c heerfoll _ paid the coffee tluty~ That ·w as
t'!il
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REL,. T.IONS BET\VEEN LABOR AND c :J .PlTAL.
in. fact . ,law·to aid tbe IInglish ship.own,e r to,feed
5
his emw chea1.er than
the sam,e u.umber of men could ·be fe,I i.o an~ o,tli.e r oooupation .. She oou ..
e.e.ived the idea ,of maritime so,premacy, and wa·r a.'o d diplomacy were to
be used, w .alth and e·v,e rything·were to be sacriJlood 'to acoom,p lt h that
obj,ect., Sbe left nothing nndone to attain it· sh~ baa attained it, she
b,is go,t it,, and she ·wHl not .1,e t 'it go, a.ad tlie· .shiHy-shal ly· ta1k of ,g ir. I of
"'
. 1,. r011, or angle-1ron,
~
. .·.· · mJo ·t o a 1.n an
or so1ue ot. h- er k"'.'!Die
. • p1g-·
a I'1." ttle
1ug
her,e dot, 'free, to 'b ·o.ilcl a ship tu enter into eonipetitio n with h,er, is ~·11,
DOD sense., \Ve ca.n not :ru u the. ship i u competitio n with ber chea1, en ll i W · nd1ebeap lab-0~.
By :Mr,t ,C ALL :
Q., What do yon. undersbt·o d the meani,ng of the wor,d ''· d1taiwback "
i.n the •ngHsh l · wto be - · · .. Tbi.s. :i s ·wba.t was, do ··,e onder ·t be''drawback .,,, law: Goodl .. required for ships ,engaged. ·i n tb fo,reign trade. on.
i ·hi 'h there was a dntJ to . 'be amunut •Of
3,.638,762,, w,~ re tak,e n fro1 .1
buod free of tloty to nable tbe sbi.p-o·w·ne·r in. the forei.go trad,e to fl· ed
the orew and passenger s cheaper., n.d tbus ,s all the English sbip·ch.e aper
thia o otber nations COltld. sail their sbips.
. e. was _· Ho··. •·ed to take it
Q .. Doo . it not mean for ·re-expor~ tion !
for re0ce.x por~tion Oltt of· ; ·g lan.d , no~ fo,r .h ome con ·umptioo. -A. ,.,o;
it was taken for· th. ·. ~e ,of·the ,erew of the sh·ip.. The ship,·p resented it .
requi. ition th . t ·. he .. anted und r- proper guarantees. given that amon t
ihr t·h e use of the e.re· .
Q.. But ·".t could not be used for home· con umption !-A. It would be
110 adv·a n·t age fo · · ·n.g land t-0 import that from. a foreign country,, bring·
it i'Dto h.er ieostom ;o house,, take care of_it,. and res,b 'ip 'it ~ ~ty free.
·Q - England would not .· llow·h r ship-o·w ners to sell it i .·. · ugland -
A,
o,:h, 'DO; of course not.
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B,y the t)BA'IB AN':
Q. .I t was to :s , ve so m.neb. of the running expe ses of the s·hip ,-A.
1.t was aetltall.r a boons . ·.iven ·to ai.d in competition ·. 1th other nation .·
·w·beu t 'b ey had all the ad.vanta.g · of ·which .I have already spoke·n..
OOJrPABATIVE COS- OF s.H IP-DiUILDIN G•.
By l\Jr. PUGH•
Q. _t . as not my· good fortnn•e to be 1,reseut when yo·n were firs.t exam iued. I ·tlo not . a-n t, ·t o tliacu:s wi.th · on. the correctness of any of
J~onr opinions on. these i:01portant subject· , ·oo, I desire t.o ask you. a
i . w qn.e stions to ge·. the be·n e.l it of your opinion an.d of your iofor.ma.understood that. yon ,s,ta,t N w·ben you we·re first
tion. for public. uses,
-e:1.amined. th.at y~),Q. could buHd a .· ·ip in this eoun, :r,y aod :p ut it .a·f toot
rea,d.y for the carcy·i ug trad,e as cbeaJJ as they·•could 'in Scotland. D rid
:,ron make that si- tern -o,t !-A~ ,.o,. sir.
Q.. It was .Pnbli,shed th·· t wayT-A~ I OO•roocted tba't here t~l-da:Y•
Wbat I stated was. tbat we had the coal, ·t be ore, the, lim~e .tone, the forest . a d an fb mat -ri __ ],_, to•b11.il(l the:ship•in tbe'i r .a tural state as.cheap
as any other country in t'b ,. · ·,orld and o,f better quality, bat that ra
mat~riaJ before labor wa-s ap·pJi,ed. to it was. ouly 10 'J>er·L~nt... of the value
-0f tl1,e oou1pleted 1ship, and that to make it a ship w,e had to acld 90 per
t ·. ·nt* of labo:r, and that 90 per eeut. o'f' labo•r cost us 70 per cent , more
tb n it di,d .an.y other co .u try in the. world ; oonseq,u,e ntly., when ·the
niil1hed sh,e ·Coat ·mo.re moHey he,Ni than in any
ship ·. ,,R.lj oomplete and. fia
<atber· country of tbe w,o Id; bttt by tll.e c·h aracter ,o f our labor and tbe
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RELATJ'ONS .B E,T WEEN LABOR AND c ·: PITAL.
dig,posit,i on of our people, many· of tbe.m ,com'"ng· from ·t~o othe'f side of
tbe water, I pot it iu. this way, tb,at they ,con ider themselv,e s better fell,
better :_d.-u,c atd, a:n.d bette·r clad, ancl t,bey are wUUog to do, whi.a · is
,c all. d a square. day's work for a square d.a.y'' s pay. A .H I , -how·e d here
a fe·w dal s ago, most of tb.e men working for ·me own. their own houses.
· :beJl have tha.t .as a-n object.. ; r th ·superiorit - of our laborwe reduce
tbeeost of the completed iehip do,vn to a ma-rgin, s~ tba t-here is only
from 15 to 20 per eent difference, tlto-ugh ~ l .i ug b.e se l · rge wage · , betw -·n. the cust of th,e finished.s·hi:p in th is country_a11:d in. ,Great B.r.it.ain .
' -~ . Pu
-. as -1. 0.- ·t•h ea-ti
· ,. .tna
- ··I cos
- ·t- o-· r··t· .'b.e· I···a.,.b·or.
· ·._ ,ow,
·• are
,. there
.1.u.r
. ·.' -- GD· ... 1Fb
..L a··t us,
,_ - ·. ·
no credits gro ing· out of Americani ad·v antages th.a t you. ar - otitled.to
on th ·t h bor oos:t T
The WITNESS,. , -o,.si ; no more ·t han the: sope,.r ior· quality ,o f the mat~.ri,ll \lb.en it b:; produced... Oar ir-oo is better..· It m1i ·rb ·-. b : well, bow
,e ,r ·~,r ,, for me to s'h o,w you a, disad antag,e w ·labor nuder.. I am satisfied
that the people o •· ,y our State (Alabama)1will b · ·v · i·y much int~ested
in tbe ,ex.planat-ion I ·, viii give yon ou that su'l~j ct.
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r ·.re,·ious to th.e meeting·oif the TarUf Commis .ion, in. order 't-hat mi_gh.t
'b a,.,e accurate information on that s11bject,, au,d bat I might be ·bl, _. to
gi\~e correc·t information, I sent a competent engineer ab:r oad to 1.nvestigate t b,e iron interest, t,b e locatio,n of th : coal, tli e ore.. th Ii rnes'tou ,
aud the m ean.s. of transport•: .t io·n, to k@e, wll at ad\: "1nta.ges, if any, Grieat
'·'ritai.u bad. over us in the produetinn of' iron. I have tak -; n a great
ia:terest in tb· production of i on.,, for the rea ·- on t'hat I believ·e it is oue
of .1ua11's four gr,e at Hece~8aries, and i.-t is1important to have the material
'31.t oo.r o . n comm.a nd awl ~-.. sv of a.eeess to us a all tim.e
Ma.n wan -,
l~·read, he w&nts ~lothmg.,, .he ~ ·a'D ts fir-e anfl .s helter, a ud tb,e ue- t t bing
lie wa,nts is iron _;: and It is an i1nport.ant question to as\k . .h at .· ad. iron
to do witb. .aiding him tu shorten the holl'ra o.f labor aud top 'tldnce all
· the e otber ·thiugi1. ·l lan, before. th. disco, ery au.d t'be ap pUcation ot·
steam and iron-I was living before that time-\\~a a. _good deal of a sJa·v,e·
to laboriog an.d. toilin -, when he bad. only h.is old. i1tow share, and when
J1is ,rrife. had to tread awa _ .a ll day at the -pioniu,g -m
whee1~
Well, I 1Se-ot abroad to get those facts to see 1vbat t.be. rela,tions were,
to ee -b e: advant.a,g .· ·t b -_t couutry had over this. in an. article that ·w ·_· ·
so i.mportau.t to the d.evelopme.nt of tbis _g reat ,coontrr, for iron has a
great ,teal to do with the development of the to&n..r5"1,
had that snr. .
,ye·:v ma.d ,e , had tb,e n the official geologists to certify to ~.t. I found
that the d.e.posits of coal and ir, .n and lim _stone in Gre -t Britain vrere·
most .r emarkable, and tbe -me coudition of t'liio,g s does. not exist, so fti ·r
as has been lle\'"'·e·1opetl, in an,y p .. t o-f ·t ·1111,e wo-rld1 It b;. in y,o ur State (Alaba:m· ) to some e · "t:e11t,. but it iis n.o . de·v·e loped. \\7 e ba ve ·i · here, h_'Dt
e ba,~·e yet ·to reach it. What di.tl tha.t. discovery re. .· nit in,. It ,.howe,t
the fi et t b.a t'he c9sJ, t be o, . and tbe. lime tone were f out d o c'l.osely
JJ,iled together vti'thirt a nair.r-ow sectiou .as though ,dr-sign,ed. to be the cor. .
n.e r~-tone or England's ,, e ]th,. f all the ,c oal and. iron ot Great B,rit~ih1
to~day were. 11iled u.1l "1--i.thi·n the State o:f New J 1n·sesr. free of·aeces-s to
tbis to u, wbat a v.,-,on derf:u1 p;laoe N w Jersey wou.Jd be.t ' ·a.king se·veu
of ·t be lclrg .st i.r-fJn -p ,.r oduc1ng du~tnct.:s in , -· al~ .-_ Sco'tlan.d, and. .England,.
I found t.hat the av-- ·rage cliis t nee betw _-u ·wb.ere. the coal.,. the ore, and
trh e rmestooe· w -,re. found to the tunnel head of the furnaces \\"here it
,:ras. to be smelt,e il wi1 ._ · not over 7 .niiles,. Tb :. furnace c,onJ,d al ,,~ays, be located 10 0 that tb.ose three material . need ne:,rer be.hauled m1ore than 'l miles..
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10,5
RELATIONS BETWEE~- LABOR AND CAPITAL
1
That ·w as tb.@..av,e rage. Then the dis,t a.n oo from where th· · pig w.as made
to the f:~tory w·ber-e it was wnrked. a.p to the m·1ckmbar, and from the
mnck-bar tio th ··plat.e or the rolled-bar for meroh.ant u . e-foo,m the ttlD·
net-head of ·t he fu·r nace to wb,e· e that ,vas mado w _ not 0iv,1;r 5· o.r 6
1o'Ues; io fact the ore from the m'i.oe i'ts ·•lf was corn.,e rtoo ·i • to tb.~ watch,~p.r ing ·. itbin 7 in.i.Jes, of where the or•e . as fo.und. ·. · hat I t"hund O•n e
important thing to be. obse.r v,ed in regard to this iron interest-the cos·t
of tran ,i iort _tion1 I takes .2 too.s of ore of the ,9.erag qnalitJ , l ·t on
of' lirn ·stone, and .a tou and. a half of coal o.r coke, or 4j t ,01u1..altogetber,
to produce 1 ton of pi_g -irou. Tbese 4l tons b · ve got to be hauled -from
where ·t h -: material i.. found, aud the _a·,. .e·rag,e cos· of that ·i o ,G reat
Britain ·w,u,. on] ··., · 2~50 to the - i tons~ Then it was. po· in'to tb turnaee
ao(l smelted, a.n d the avera.g e oo ~t of tran -,portation to tbe great ma1~t .e·t
wbere it :1~as CO'D ,nme.d w&s not o--e r 50 ce'Dts, so ·f.ha,t t.he graud total
for tr.J.J1sportati,o n fro·m tbe. mine 't,o tb,e fn ~.u ace ·w here the pig· was made
and from t,here 'to ·the s·h ip-_
y ard was. ouly .. boot ..3. l\la.k iug· tbe s31me
in,.,.esti.gati.on. in tb:is eou.utry, and loo·k i og olter m.y· o,v.n hoo:k . to ascertain. the cost of i: bese· m,a tenals io my own b)ast-furnaces, I fon.ud from
tbe manner in whiob these deposit·. are situated in. the ,_- 'nit .. States
,. t. ance t ..'heJ mU"St. b e t_r&nsported
. flrom 30
·.. ·. t0 w
t; h
- ~ t- th
_ e avemge ·.d IS
. -.JS
. ·..·· Dll'" Ies,
a.od. ·t he ,eost of bringing the 2 tons of ore, the t~·n of lim•eston. ..,. and the
lj 'tons of coal to, t'h.e furnaces in the U .n ited States was ,o,Ter 80.i50, or
ne·arly· thre.e. times as, m·11ch a in Great B ri.taiu... Deduct the co: t of
t-r-.a,n · po·r ta'ti.on i-.1 Great ritai'n from ·t he. oost,,o f trans_
portatio11 in the
u ·nited Stat>s antl the ·w hole protection on th.e pig, then,, is. only about
equal to the differ·. nee in the cost o· traasporta't100.
·Q . What i tbe. cost. in Ei1gl ·n d. of a ton of pig. irou. -- A. About
.q1-!,1.3·-. ·. IAJ
:::. 1o
- ,iltl'A
. .. 'P-1 ·2ti
Q, Wh ·r e is pi,g -iro~ ma.d ,e ·t h.e ch.e"pest in this countFy f.- A. I have
a.n .i nte.r est in ll'orth Ca..rolina where it can be made for ll6 a ton. I
ha1·~· au interest in.Virginia.in. a large enterprise started there a ye · r or
two ago, wa re they are going to be able to make it for i.14 ,a ton"
Q. Do you th.i nk that is .a s cheap as 1t can be Ulade -~11 .wher in this
couotey 1- •A . It canno·t be made for less than that, and it ca·noot 'be
m.a de for ·t hat exoep t iu ~ verJr fe,w places.
f you had one aere ,o f laud
produci.o ~;•40 ~nsb.els of gr.a.in to t.be acre, a,.-od had a;no-ther acre t,h at,
only gre.w 30, it would u.e ver d·o tu sa:y w·e will cultivate on·1y ·ba·t prodnces~40 bosh ls. We must average. it all aro ·o.d.
Q. You would be 1
snwrised to learn ·that 'th,e:r can make pig~iron in
Birm.in.gbam, Ala. , .a t 1 10 a ton,. ·w ould you not hat tbey can do .i t t I
do not know wheth.er the:y do it or not, . . . . . A ,1 That i .· discussed and talked
of a .O'TAait de • There may he cases of that k.iud~ aud. I .am discuss.in.g·.
·t ba ~;bject a. grwl't deal with Mr. Shelle:r. Wh.~t are the adv.antages
tJi.a.t poin't bas got!
ii·. I,-. PUGH. Th.. ·. proximit3tof ·be ore and the lhn.e stone .and t.he food
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and the ell eapoess,of rents~_
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. .. a t . 1~ t·h e oon d~tt 10n of l a bo
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Kr. P U,G H. do a.ot thio.k th,e re·is much ,dufereqce between the price
of la.bor there and here .; bo·t I am. not w,e ll enoug,h .1- formed as to the
faets 'to state1
The WITNESS. So.ppose I concede for argumen.t 's sake tbat w·· ., find a
p ~ in thi~ oon1ltry tha.t has .· I the advanta.g,es of ·t raos_p ortation anti
,o therwise that Great Britain haa in ·mla king iron.; I will. th@D reduee it,
d~wn to the eos:t of labor; ta.ke1it that I concede 0111 but one ·t hiu_g. I
will een.cede that Y0':1'. 'h a,~e the ooal, th,e. ore, ,an,.d. ,·' l.l ·t h.e materials. as
closely together· and ha'vli as. cheap transportation to the furnace, · will
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JlE,LATl'ON'S B,ET.·WEEN LABOR AND C.APlTAL.•
1
couoode that the cost o,f labo.r is, the- sam.e, and then I ·HI come to the
t1i advantages tb · you labor -uud.e r iu getting the p,J'a nt. A .modern
fnruaee so buil ~ s to have all the eeono,m ical mlvantag,e - of labor to
1nXJd •o .·. a large quanti 5· or iro.n, ·,anno.t be built in. A.l abaoia or anywb •re · :l•". , Dnder . e. present price of ·.· nr labor sh.o rt of e250,,ooo.. I
bnilt ,o ne two ·..ears ago, ttnd it cos.t that. Thi~ foruac•e in 1ny locati.on
" ~a:- com )Osetl o,f ·. toae, iron, brick, and/ litt]e timber. Wh re 1aJ· this.
stone ·w'h.en I c mu1 . n d to build ·m y furuaee; · here lay tbi . brick, his
i' ·011 · Tb iro: was in be mine; tl1 : tone was 1n the ,q uarry; the b -.~c
'\tlls ,: _ 1nass of clny in tb,e lot. Ea.c h b.a.d a m.et'"Ply nominal ,;-alu · of'
J>r.obabl1 not O'V r 5 or 10 ller eent.. of th - et.nat of n1 fnrnaee.. '._ then
l)(~gan to app]y lrt or to th s ma.teriaJ , ~nd be,g an to app1.r :Jc .bor on.
thu A1n ,rica11 .I>.ri:uciple. That labor tirst began with the ,cion1monest
, orkingu141.n to (U1g on I the c~lay. . t w nt fr m the-re to, fhe bnelr-y.ardt
f[OUl tbe l.►.rick s y rd i.nto th ·· bri :k, and from th · re. ·t o b •. located :i n the
fu nac-e. '"fb. .·. stone wa:R a rook iu tb.· q0,arry, anti the iron wa . in tile
n1111,.,.. Tb w·hole p.:rtJ9oe'tion, like the shiP,, 1Jrobably was. ·90 per oent.
or ·iabor. ·, here I ~:·m located- ·. nd I d.o, hop .· that labor · i1l rise to that
- «rgntt,_-· in Alaba1111a,. for I ,v.aut to ,see the wo.rki.n gma - coi- e up-, aud.
.. -~on are going on · ery · ·e ll tb ·. r · ·. now-th.at is ·rtb~ eoud·ition,1autl when
yo·t l (,~hU! o.p to tbst coud ._ ion he labor will
the same. .
Q
·_· want :ron to ,come d.own th.e .. · a, d hel.P to instruct· us.-A. I
\rill.
am. going ·t o mak -· you a visl't..
n, typer ceut. of this wltoJe
"~a ·,ooo w· ·.. , l . bor, and ask you to.-da.s would not your lloopl,e. i - Al.al,a ma b . glad to borrow money on tbe ·ourl'ty ot· 'he inm:a ee to con.. ttfl ,~t ,a od de·v e'l op th t iron .a nd pay , ·p er ,o ont. fl'· r it•
Q.. :up,posc tbo:t ·. ould be a \"'e rycheap rate of ioteres··in Alabama!~
"'\. Then, o · b . e200.,ooo, of . ap:i'tal in .· · I~,b · m._ you would. be ~i1Hng to
1•·l · ,_. 17/iOO a y.ear, g1,;·n ,, tbe furnace as seenri.ty for the money. ·You
lra~ut to enter· into cou111etitio,n and. have all the other thing~ · equal,
f:'·xc -pt tl1nt, with tbe man. 011 ·t ·e. oth r s·id · of the water. Tbe·r e ·t he·
s~~,0:e :ide.nti.~a kind of furnace, owing to ·t he che pues-: of labor, cost·1s,
la.ho a.bout , . 1 1,000, and he pay, 3 per .ut: iutere 'ton tbaJ,, or· 8 ,200
a ~~,ea.r . rf ber•e ,,-ou ba, e a ,diYid n.d 011 that ~ap,i ·_.· I alou of .•··13,000
aguJu _t .l on ·i n th ._ rnern m.a tter o i tere t on -ap'it I.
10 , the·n , ~
Y~n• goin,g 'to con J>e e with llim ·•
__
Q., - ou a. s1t$1-king of borro,red cap,·1taJ, bot :uppo· ·· · be 0\1· , er of
e~11 ►ital ,:rant>· tu iu,.. . ·t in iron m kin.
he1·e had h , better' ,g b to do
it 1--•A., H . · had. b. Et r go to, A 'l abatna.
l Tba , i . n1y opinion.- .,. ·~ut unl,es- be ean -o, ·t o work ,and get a
1t-nn1n ,. - ti're iu.tcrtst for his capital be will ·n ot go, to Alabaru.a..
Q.. Wba·t , in · our jndg en.t~, would re1 , nr1era.te capital i that .iudut,.~
tr:.~ •-A. Th . r .-.· J".. _notbe.r· qoestion1 then, that has to eome in.. V. b.er. ·
is vour· · u:a.rket 1n .. ·· a ba:ma tor the iron yo-u m.ak,e ,• , .· bat l;'OU have got
ti, tak,e ·i nto eous1de:rJit ion.
Q, T ·esa. -· .e as .·ittsbttrgb t - ·. ·.. ow· far· i ·. itfro1 'P ittsburgh to Ale ..
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ba1na ·.
Q.. To
·-.•
the mining· region of Alabama s.upposeiti . · boot500miles.•- ·
. is, safe to ,s ·.y th.· t ·n o m.an ·ho11 l(l oomplai.o o·f ~ · . tra; 1 portatiou.
oos. of 9,1 : ·. ton for .a llundred miles. That w·onl be
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to for
·tbe. traus~
portatiou of a ton of pig-iron from - abama, wbere ,~·ou. ·m.ade it, to the
:m,a;rk.e·t of eo-u, 'UD1ptiou · he 1n,odern fu.rn·ace t'ba,t I s,pok,e of .b as a,
c.apae'itJ· f7or m . king lOO ton · a day, and . ~.. that fbe .freight ,Jooe on
the prodnct of Alabam ·, - .odiug it ·t o thi , m · rk t, would be. 9500 a day
against ,a,freigbt1n.·Englandl. of 50 cen· ·. a to ., which.woold be oo.l y ,~.00..
If _y ou mtdtiply the. difference each d . by the numb ·r o days in the
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BELAT'IONS BE,T WEEN LABOR A,.. .D CAPITALt
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year l on will fi.nd whe-e the Ala·bam.a ma 1.' s P' ·ofit wuuld b at the ,e ad
oil 'l
e year~
Q. ,c an · .en.o t 1.ncrea · -- tb lio ··s of · raus.portatio,n antl Ie· .eu the·oost
of it · -A I never saw that qo~tion, mo,re thor_ougbly a-nswe·r ed tban
l>y ·· ndrew, Jack· 'On,. F'irst ea.ding on - thiug that ·h e · -id •c a.u . e,l me
to look into thi , ·m ~ tter..
a Sta.e fair in TenHe ~-·_ · ·,, adid~essing hi .~
neia·hbor , 'h.e - id . "
il,d\ ,your ia tori - ·· ·, clo:·e a , you can to l."Our
plautations, supply ,v our own wa-n t . . to your owu Jle0Jll.e ·eep all the
mone , you can within the ,c ircle o· ,y our o - u Ioca·-ion, aud you will eou fer a g >c ·t ble _sin,g on t e huma1 :r 00." Tha. ,,,. as s,:11o'ken son1e. fifty
J 1e ars 81J!'Ot, Now,, to a11,p,IJ· . -nd·rew Ja,kson' 1.de to labamu--n v· r
mind i ts·b or: ·h-1f J·o 1 cann,o buUd op a big fhrD,a(;'@ at first that
·m ak ., < 1.00 tons~ build 01:1e la-rge euoug·h to mak the il\o:n for . \:er-y .1n1-Uroad iu Alabama; build oue · -rg,e enoogh to 1na.k,e e·v ry I lo,vsbare ;:
bnHd on 1.arge elJ,o ugh to 1nake ~very wagon tire ; ha' e all tb1 ~,tlon at
home a11d c .·. -,,.e the i5 a ton to ,P 'itt-.,burgb,.
Q. Is tbe differ uce b··t\\"e@H the. cost of pig-iron io E1ng'lat11d <1nd i o
t 'h1s oooHtr,, O'win,g, entirel ., tot · ,e di.Jfer · n •· in the co - of labor :- ,\
P 'rineip~ Uy to the ditt re.nee 1n the cost of labor autl. cost of cap,i t· I.
Q You , a.y·, theu,I that in E,n gland 1t 1 . w rth from ,l ,13 to , .1.3/ '.' ), :·t
ton !-~ _. . ,, And from ,.bat ·0 1) 'to 115 a ·1 ; o"
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QII You say it cao. h·. made for· from 114 to 1.:16 in this oou1ltry :-A .
11 . ce
t:aio looatio s:; bu.t Jabo rlng "ttnd _.- tbe dift!ieult-y Iba, · · ,p ok 1 of,
t at tber-e ig bo market for, 1t 1n tho - e , . .ery fe . - locations wh re it is
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1nade so ,e ry, ehea·p!!
Q.. You tarted ont, I think, with tb,e co t or sb:iJJ ~buil io_g iu , b ~s
country f- _·.
did uot 't ake that n·p fir, t, bee. use ,d id not care to talk
D(lOD. a ,s u bjeet that I w ~ 11ec1aU;,.,· en!!nlgetl in wy . ,'~If,, but I too·k. n.Jt
the cotton good,• and t,he 9roolen good .
(·T h.e committe he _- too~. a reeess for one b.o~, ,at th _. expiration o,f
which the exami ·ation of Mr,. Roach was~ -•·- lim d . ]
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COST O,F TR ,· NS,P OR'rATION.
By ...r.
UGH '~
Q,1 Cao l oa give ·uR the gene.· l :1~ tei-i o , a ton of p,ig•iro11 .bi.pped _l,~- ·
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ra·il in this cooutr .~ .A. I eannO't po · iti vel.. · gi v,e ,¥ 0Ll tb a ,, thongb I
p .~r a great deal.
suppo.·-e frou1 -· ttt ..burgh to ·•--·ew 'Y ork it11ni,0 ·bt be
' '3 Ji0.
Q. Is it not aboo·t 75 cents fore, er , :hundred u1il s.. -A .. From that
t-0 a dolJar; 1,robabl _· . , doU · :r, for eYe1~r hu.ndr-ed , , ile -~
Q ~ W'b ,r e tbe 'tr.an _
p ortat,"on is by ·,vat r i..•tber-e any diffi renoo; aH('l,
'if so,, what is, it 1-A~ I ,c a ,100- s ~J iu ,g ard to pig-i on, but I should
_jod,g th.at, witb prope,r facil.iti - , tJb _ co . t of water transrmrta.tio woul,l
'be :1.ess than half.
Q., What would it oost to brin_g ·_ tou of'p1,g iroo f10.n lfobilt!j, Ala . . to
Wilnun.gtoni, Del.., by· w.at.erl---A, That ·. 01thl ,lep~ud a great deal on
the ,· m.ou-ut of trade built op,, If ,,,., , .s •· l could be · ure of · full cargo
both ways the frei,g ht would be much reduced.
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Q. M.__ ck less than h.a,l f th-e co_·, by rail 1- ,A .
-: re ha · n in :n11y
ow1} experie ,oo within th·. J._ ,s,t wel,,.e. ye· -rs a s·tead'.\''"' reduction in
fre1gbts 'W·be.re a trade has been ·b o·i lt op so• bat ves · ·Js ean _g e . ca1:go,
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Q,I What is the dUI~':rence betw1
een tbe ,oo .t of carr "'ing a ton of iiou
,o re and a to,n of pig-i.r,on, b . rail,, if there i , ·. · n:r ·_- ·.· • I ,do bo·t ki o,v
tllat -thero i __. a·u yj I a · a puI"cbasSer of ores, and if there i - auy 1110,:n i"n
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my bosiness that sbonld he a. free.. trader I am. the man. Last year l
J>Of•Cjha&ed over tl2,000.,000 wor h of material o.f one. kind and another,
111-100 which. our present ·t ariff' laws lay a heavy duty, hi•c·h ooo·l d have
l.>ee:n pumhased by me abroad m.ueh. cheaper th.an iu the United State ~
bot I wdl give IOU m,y e.xperi.enoe oo tba·t s11~jeC't, shO'wing w·hy· it- is
prefe .. ble to me, as .a eonsumi@. ,o f larg,e quantities of mate·r iat to 1,no·,,...that I · an get it a.t hou1e. I woo'ld not :in.\~ . ··ta <loll -=-' in a ship-yard to~
day if. f koew th.at I h,ad. to de,p eud upoo a foooigo produ.c t for n1y hHt a
teriat I should. be su~j,·_ · ·. t to tbe •oouting·eucies o-t war .; I s,boold be
··u~j-eet 'to tbe oo.n tiugeneies of the elements.; I should r-equire at least
to double m,= capital tor the ·r eason that I ,e an make o:s e of my·own credi·t
at bo:me to a better adiantage than I can .abroad., and I save oom1nbs~
~ions ·b pucc·h asi.ug beia To i1lH•8 tl'ate to sou no,"iv "bat .has tak.cu
11b1ee ,vithi.u the Jas·t t, ,o Jea-rrs I bal"e lost- over 160.,,000 by depeu di ug
on. a fo.reigo marke· 1111de-rce·rbtn1 oircu·m ~ta.ne,e,s. for materialR. I want,e~L
I have a large mill i· r rolling ·rail& . m1a.d ·:. a. contract wi.th the ~;or h a
ern PacHi.,c Railroal Uo-mpaiDY to furuis\h thew 15,000 ·to:ns of :t,ool ruH -~;
·,nd that 00:e transact.ion o.c,mpelletl e to put a plant w.h ere, if' that c·h•m
_io..m.s tanc,e e, er took plate a-gaiu, I shoaltl know what. r· ,vas going to
pay a.t bom ~. · t that time I ,:ot the price of blooms in th <n :. hsh
market, and I mad ·. m.y contract for 1.5,000 ton• of bloom1s in Engl.and*
got the price. before .I made t,be ooutract, sappo·: iog I c-0nld ai,\;·ays.
,o btain them at t'b at figure. I had a hope ha.t I eon'ld get. the bl( .. 1us
at home, in Aw rica, bot th .· · ~: ·..l bosine -·, is in it · inf . ncy anti
th ·~ b'loom.-m.a ken of tbe country wb,o h ,:--,e the fa-cilitie .. for 1nak~
ing s,teel bloomus ba{l all the.1r own. wUls going aud. could H ak.e
no bloo n1s for out s.1de 1>arties. .A.t that ti iue th.e.r e , as a defi ui~u e in An1erica iu the ,ea1>aeitE to n:make 15,(KJO t.o,u·· ot blooms.. TJutt
· a:, , oou disoo,Tered by forei ,b ·1,geub1 here.,
ma.de my contrJ:c t, ancl
without an·,· cbau:ge i · 'the. E,uglish inar'ket, without auy reason tor ·i·under hea,. eu, only that they .-u-·"· blooms \\7er-e ·scarce iu AmeriCH ., l
~ad to p~.) for the •5,,000 tons of blooo1 s · ·. .n, toll 1~ore than t ll.e J>.1.i co
I ,,··a s 6rst oder~I then1 fot·,j The bloo.ms cos inc . :,60,0UO 1nore t bau l
eouJd hav go, th~ul for on month before.. 1:hat lee hle to a fnrthe1·
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inq ni:ry as 'to tlte. cbeapuess of mo1i l" i.o E111glaud. The 1naking of iron
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is, ·i t .e the so,v1ng of a crop ,of J:rnio..
Yon c~_uuot 'b ring forth tbe ·.~ro1r.
of iron in a day~ ,or in a \f',eek, or io a- mouth!!
.ron h _·ve .!!ot t,o .b'Y do\\rn
into 'the .w ine and mine the ore, aud J·ou have go 'to m1u~ be coal, au.ti
you bav·e g,o t to be sure that you h,l\'° e .a ,s tock o-n 'baud before ,~·o u put
lour furnace in b,last. T·h is. ·r equires lurge ·capi'tal. Tha . ca1.d tal - ~·~:
ha\,.,e not got.. T .heJ,~ bav·e it on the otJ1e:r -. •:itle.. \V,e go iro n1 ha,n d. to
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mouth miuing w·'ha.t · ,e want, both in eoal and or ... .a1ul l\l'bAn tbe il1ruace
blo·w s, o:n·t the-re is not ors on han.d~
The 1nan · <hot s,~s th · o.r n 'h as uot
tb.e ,ca1,ital to .bo.y it and st.orie i·t U'(J·., au d th.e m.au hat mines it has not _
the capita.I to d.ig it out and ha,:re i ·t r _ad.y for hi 111 .B y aull. by, i u a,
·new oon ntr:r Hk.e tbis, full of vigor, w he · w·e get O'Ve a little Jlc ·n ic we
bring into 1)1ay all our e . ,e rgies to build more 1-ailroads, and then c.0111 .· ·
a ,d e·w and fo:r iron aud st.eel.. It is not in ha.nd.. J tak,es a y . ar t . bri U (W
'it np.. Hogland ha :· •:·tudjed that matte1. tho,rou.gbly.,. a; id there. is no
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he hits no.
full snpp'I~- on ban!d.
Wb ·n th.e market ig
flooded wit.:h iron, capital being pl ·o·ts there, she ,can.go to ·work tligghig
out the ore, _·ad.the man bo makes tb.e i.r ou can go 011 -n d r.nake ·i·t l ·can · ·· he c . n cou1vert the ore into iron,. and ,vben t.he iron is niade lle
ea;u bypothecate tbat iron for three-.q.uart-ers .its va·1,1e to a ba.nki11ghonse. on his n.ot.e, giving him time to · ll, nod he )lays hut 3 pe-r c~nt..
iut~t. Thus he is able to carrJt that iron until a dmnand for ir,o:o
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BELAT'IONS B,E TWEE,N LABOR AND (ll'PITA.L~
oom,es from Ameri,e a again. A.'lwn1t 1873,, to, ,m y own actual knowletl,ge,
the profit made by 'the English iron--master by hav·"o . stock on hand to,
apply the American 'm arket,, was over ,30 ~ ,c ent. Abon.·t everY. &e\"'en
years th. ,y make ·o p ·in one yea.r a divid .eel for the. sev,en years, because
of th.e iucreased price in eonseq,11e11,oo of the sc 'r,eity in the Ani nean
market., This market is closely watched o,n el"' ryth.ing,, not only no . ·,
bu.t before we -ot to be as strong as we are in the manufacturing in~
't erest. Th.e En.g .l ish policy~ .' to combi.ne, and eacb mill-man pu~~ forth
a ,!;hare of capital to ,send good~ ·• ere, under our tariJf laws, ro ,sell them.
lo·wer tban tbey could poss,ibly be llrodoeed. here, aud thus brea. oar
n1Hrket. Tbere 'is no end. to the in.g ennity of tra,lers iu tn,~lng to Stl8tai n
co:
their bus,in.ess
Q~ Goin,g back to the ,oo:it of 'tra.n ,port tion,, is it the. ·. ame on l)igiron ,a.., on ,iron. o.~ and if so, bow is i·t that the furnaces,in the Xor -he.r11
St tes ar,e ab1e· t.o b,r hig a l.arge q 11-antit:f. of ·i ron ,ore from ·Ja.ba1ua. to
tbeir furnaces,, m.ake iron of it, _ud sell it :·- A . I ha·,..·e not kno,wn of
anJ large quantities coming from there.. I lt . ve kuowu of .orne quanti tieii, t,Oming from th -· r. ; o·f .a ·p eculiar charn.c ter, tba.t f - to ,say 10 ,or 15
per, ceut of those oies was, requisite to mi.··. with •ome other o~s tbat
'Weire vei·y· cheap a.t bome to 1naike a, peculiar class of iron .
Q . , Do you say it is limited. to tb . t sort of iron.t-A... I thihk it ·is
limited to 't ha·t kind to make up a mixtu~e..
, H 'PPING.
• :STOB ·TION OP · MEBlC . ,
Q. N,ow I wish tu 001ne to ':!biJ)-,buildin,g, with wJJicb ,~ou are ,so familiar.
You have tboo,g ht a great d,ea1 about the legislation thai l\iould aid o ,l 1r
ship- buildet'i .in. restoring Ameri.c an s.l1ippi og upon. t be _e-a.s,.:._A.. Yes1 sir..
Q. Uongres_s has 1~pealed the I.av. in :retereuoo to a cert ining the
tonnage, o-f a, ·_. 'hi11i b _ ·01.Pa 'OFe:ment,, ,so · bat fbe. to.una~e is ase.e,r ta.iued
DO'W by tbe s·.me, rules here as in. En.gland,. . ·n,d the State of Ne\v York
bas r,e pealed the State tax upon sbips. NO\\" what proportion of the
carrying 'trade of tbis ,countrJ·, in aud. out, is, d.one bs this ci't.,:r f-A. ·r
sJ1oul,d say probab'I y more. than h -If~ I eau -,o t ,s peak po~;i ti •rely, but I
should jodae about tliat..
'Q.. .hen, 'there can be a great, beneli' . ·d •e rived :f om tbe rep al ,o f th:at
x in a S,t ate wh,e re ore than oue-h11.lf tbe shipping is a1vned 1-A.
Unques'tionably,. one. b.alf tbe sbippin.g is not ,o wued iu ...J"ew York State,
but oue:half the ,s bippin:a j,g •lone in N ·- •w Yo-r'k;, hnt I \Vant to ma'k a
·r e·mark tlae.rn. One thiug J"OU must observ•e, there 1s a gl'eat determi~
nation on the pa;rt of meu ·w ho haY'e posse,s sio, ot· a, trade to.l1old ou to
1t., One of th ·· great llifficul ies in gettiH,g ea1,ital to go in.to tl1e foreign
,carry i.ng tra<le liS tb e tac.t that to rei,g u CHfli ta],, a n<l esp.·cial l3;- En :"'l is Ji
ca1,ital, nlread.y .h a8 soeo1nJll te 1108~ ss.100 Yet] beli,e,"e capital could
be.fouufl to make, an eutering "-~dge i11 -.be way of oom.1l0tttion, e, en. on
the -·o rt,b . -tlautic, if ,o ur Gov·ernu1 ]kHt ,vere to pnr;'"ue · ncb a 110li.ey aa,
Eog'I. · nd ,pursuetl to'\1~ard lier slrippin,cr \\"lten she aitletl the i..~eat
stea.m sbi'p I b1 ,s to establ is11 ··b 1 . sel \--es. ~ ~o-r nee<l th~• t nt.uc:b be d,o u e ..
'W e do not ·wan to .snbsi.thze lines, 1un· to guarantee a Go,~ernment d'i ~
idend. The Jt"reuch 601. ernn1en.t just tl1 is lust year' ,·,otecl a sub . idy ot·
•uoo,ooo .a. y,e{ ·r bl· the . tausatl•, U tiq ue Ii ne, 'to incren·. ··, its ,Ship8 OH th:e
North Atlantic, and tbat Hue is gr-o,viog.. If ,o ur Go,..erom . 11 · w,ere siD1ply to pa.y a, fair ma·il compensation, and gi,--e a maH oontraet tor a ter.m
of years to a line tb t sboold co:me up to all the reqoireme,11t:s or speed,
1safety, a.:nd aiecommodatious. that are- m,e t by any fore1,g n Hoe ,, 1. believe
capital ·.. onld be, ready to put 81firs,t-class Uoe of ,\merieau ste,am,shi.ps,
,o n the .N orth Atlaot,i c; while tbe . ame Just and wise policy would pot
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Ameri eau ships on tb _,. South. Atlaut·,o .a nd the Pacific, to the great a,l~
v,:,utage of this oontry in < ·\ er.r way,. Stop :m a.k ing· the Amer-:i can sh'i p
,c arry ,i h~. ,mails except by vohinta,~y ~nt.raet,. pa1" as f.airl~.. lo~ service
ren,de.Fed on f.he s a. as ou tbe .l and, and that 1 · all tb · Jeguslatt on nee..
,esStiary. Then let ·i t be kno,vn that the: matter of'·• free shi11-•." is sett1.ed
for good, so hat, en pit.al maJ feel t:b . 18 0 rety of a tixetl policy, and
American shipJ)in.~ '\\·ill ba-v,e -- chance~ To bnDd the mil:roade, and to
bni.ld up the facto1·i~s we lnl\ ·•· tax,ed the 11eo,plell .AIi 'We want i .. top~
tect , ta-_1,i ta l ·1.nd ].;;fbor upon the sea a , we have. prote ~t,e d.it upon.the land ..
i · on.1cl not Onl' ))eop·le willingl · stand su•
c·b. a tax to - _ore us tbe safe
,e arryi.ng,~ of onr pNMlu ;ts to mark.e·t a.u d all the ad,.an tage·. a 1onnn•n"~
The peopl would. rE.'ffll benefit a tbou1·a nd tb1d from sncl1 an. inves:tmeut.
Q. Tl:1en tha. 1 iR your re·m _dy in , hr · Uoe of legisla:ion - ·A~ Yes,; all
thin.gs ·be,i ng eq nal 'the A 01: r1can citize,n does not _want any· fa,. or , he
i~ ,vining to ta:ke his chauce in ~11 ,e ompettti.o n of tbe world. I have
ju~.t r ,e ceiv,e tl the official ll(kJ,nm nts w·hich show tbe p-0Hu: tbat ·n f"laud ha.s pursnecl 'to built1. HI) tb.e su1p,pu1g i'ut .ret:rt:. If I see a n1an
in ·m.l '°"'n 'bu -._ i.ne ·•. · ta.rho i ,, -'." lipsing all competitor~, a.ud I ·w ,~nt. to
learu ~o ·et.h~ng thir' do not kuow, tbe ·ftrs,t thing I wonl clo would
be to ~tudy 't ha - ma ',s CO:llr,s e a (l l ~hould g, t th . practienl iuforu ation. I.. e ns look at wbat fr, trade in ng·Jan.d bas d·OJle th·rough her,
·1.a n\S1 I ha\T_her _· official eopi s of tb -- act. al biv.
T.h .. C .HAIRllA.N~ · ·.· e should like to ba,~e all that Engli -. h. ]egisla· ion
put a,t the servi,c e of' tll comn1i tee, ff Ji 011 ,c : unot giv us. copi -s of :i t,
·uow let us ba,~e t em later~ · _.- ·• sh.o nld lik,e to ha't'e it go into t-he rec~
,ord,,. wh · re it may ·. e _
a ,. ai.l a'ble to the. couotr1 1n rmanent form.
Tbe WITNESS~ · will only' gi.,Te on.e. qu.1· tatiou out of the whole, w·h.1eh
,1;·ill settle th1s question . , Erug]and. i . a nation t at has ,c heap r ea.1]it.al
tban w ··. hav,e , a nation far i I ad,; ance of all nation,s in t'be wo -,Jd in the
co•n stru,ction of sh:ips,. a d t . at can. produce the:m cbe.tt1Jer,. _,e r labor
was cheaper th, n our labor~ And yet befo1e sbe could gain ·t hat woo ..
derfttd ·p osition w·h ich I have d scribe(l,, doi · ~, one~ba]f the wbole:oarr5 ·i ng tr-ade o_f th~e wo~·J.tl, '! bat ,(litl · he ha,,.,e to do -· Sn,m : bod.J may te·11
you 1Sbe built th . ,s hip, a little cheaper, and that her people h d. the right
to buy ships in tbe cheapes't 'm ark. t .· in the world, but th.ey ne1er bon,g bt
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·B e:f ore tba·t s.b e oogh.t
any fr.om the. tim.c she be -._n ·t o baild iron ,hip~~
shifJS from us, .a nd bought them from others :for _, bri,ef peri0tl,, and ·we
·,,{,e re dri ,,.i ng her from the iSea under thozse conditions,; bu·t w boo. she
dlsoo,.. ered tha:t .- b.e could build a -~·b ip cheap · r sbe discovered t 1 e gra ·d
s :_c,riet of all, that sh·· coul d DO't enter iuto competition wit.· cbeap labor
to run th hi11',, and he kn w the wonderful. ad anta.ge of cheap labor
in. ronni.ng, th - snip,, au. l therefore ,she. at once became the m.o at d.etermin ~ d. }J1·otecti.ou iis t of ,an :n ations on earth.. : o, otbe·r nation ev,e r went
so far i.n protection as, ··he weut in · be p'rotec.·ioo of her own ship after
he built it cheaper than other . a'tions could build it
How was this . She firl t be, -an h¥ the ,system of .s ubsidy.. They
w,e re not. •_t!ai(l ther,e o~ the, word u; 8'itbsldy ~" Tbe: language subsidy "
hi used in the l:aw·. What else did she do . I w:ill read :
1
1
1
i,
Bi ,. ~.r. ':. rms of th~s oontra~t cone oded. 'V. i·th. tbe Peni nsnla an. d Oriental Steam.
Navigation Company on t.h 17th (la ·_, o ' -.. ov~ · b .r.,, 1.86,7 -
A t tbat ti,me ,s be b:ul risen to her bigbest :v.os.i'tio.n ; sb,e had swallow,e d
up all our trade duri.u g 'tJ1e war._.
foR tl1~ East, Ind ·a, ·C hina.., aud J a.·pa.n m -i l t.tervi ce; of
11dtsidy , u be paid-·
'bieh oopie.a are inclOB.ed1> the
T.he snbs.i dy i 1n1:t do,wn at £400,000 a year,, or 12,000·,000 to one
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oompan , or a snm. equal to .22! per c .n t, ,on. the whole capital in~
v,e -ted.,, with a,stipulation on the on,e. hand that whenever the annna'l 'incom•e of ·t be company from .a ll sou·rices, inclnding ·t his subsidy, ,doe not
admit of the pa~m,e.n.t ,o f a, ,d ivid,e nd of 8 .p er cent. on the capital. emploved., th,e Sllh.qjdy ·,b~l l be increased 'b y so murib,,, subject, b.owe,..er,.
to a lhnl , of £100.,.0 00, · r • :5 00,000 more; a.nd hen. a ,o om·m·i ssioo ap~
pointed by P . rliam.e nt shall examine tbe com.p_an.y~s books an<l decid.0
that ·tb.e.re.·i s a surplus o-ver 8 per cent., one·. tbird of tba.t · 11er eeut. goo ·.
ba:c k into t;he tre
nr·.·.
Wh -n th · y found that ai11 tbeir laws did no .• answer,, that _ca1,ital
would not go i.nto the bosineSis, t,ben tbe.J gua-. nt · ·· .a d·,.vidend OH tl1e
capital that would gff in:, and it wa . u,otice that ,s rock terror :n1to the
c- , pitali=st of' .a ·11. o,t ber na ioua. wheo •he. ·di,seo:,..
· .d that i't was not- the
·p ri ate. enterprise of Grea B,rttain the,. had to eont,end wi,·b; but it
·· a . thie Governuient of Grea;t Britain, ·w i·· ~h the t.reasury of .-' 1: . t Brita.i n
at th ..E,o.g lish capit :list',s b~k .
ean bow ,you in. anoth r part of the e oo·o .r acts tlia · the a · ·tuu. 11,~
paid so mu ·b a mile for th number of' miles a ·.te-· ms'h ip, ran, au<l it
amountcid. to over ':400 a day, '\l~hich was eq.ual to ·t h ··. cost of running
1
the ship;. 'b ut ·n nd
l"
he couditions of that . tipul~tioin tbe ship hacl to
ru1 · betw ; ·n certa·in longito,de ~.and latitudes. ait certain . ··-a~on •·to mo,--e
certain crop·s~ so as tp bre : · .. u .P· · b · . trade of otber nations.
That is tbe Eugli h poliC:Jt• That is tb,e policy· of" l .,. r . ·¥erJ J.· ·~1.slati¥e act... _. itl1 ·• J,000,000,,0 00 of 1uoney, ·t he ·i n · e tecl annua1 earning~ of
thi . greal' fl.eet,. with frotn ,1 350,0~,000 to 14:00,000 000 a year mor_. gi \"en
to labor t;ban io. all the other i.ndnstries, how p•r oud n1ns.t the Englis .
work4ngman. be to know b. t he had a p11 · · , th.a be had 1edslaJor. - w·h o
stodi.e d-the .nbj,e ct and. k:new bow to, tak:e care of him I
By lfr-.. ,·uGH··
.
Q.. You · y that b. this system of gol er11menta.l aid England ba - got
1.f l.J'C,0\7.~. -sion of the ocean e rryin,c tr.ade A. Yes, sir.
Q. I. unde~tood . ·011 to .sas,· that the ad, antages which E1ugland has
now in · . e. oumbe.r of <hi1• , aud in ·t he p session of all th _ . llines and
all be oth .·r .a d,~aitta.gc-s, · be ha , enabled her to o,·e·rooroe tlte be-n~ti• to
o~r shi11ping of a repr-.al of the S,t.-t,e tax. iu N w Y•Jrk t- ·. Ob., ,re ,
i!
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Silr
Q,., _ou ~·a·. t.bat E ,n g'J a·o d ·h as poss.essi.o n of tb.e car.r ,1ng trad .·, ou the·
ocean. ]lo · sn.ppese w,e ente·red. upon thaYt•li.n e or syst ·· 1H of Iegislatio,n
w·b tc·h ,e nabled her to att:: in it, ." ·bat pow· -.F ·w ould En," lantl b 1ve. now to,
preve·n t the soceess of an· aid w,e ttQul.d fnrnish from the Government
of ,b e ame character- !'- .A~ will · e·11 ..,,vou. ·w hat I 'think.. b would. do .
If she ·m ade opeu w·a r u.pon l ou. wi h her gon, , and if Rbe only had. as
man,y gnn,s as you, itnd ··oon.d s,be bail not, enough, she would m.o ·t. as-■
suredly get ·more.. Tha - i.s about · ha.t s.be would d<L
,n
, How ucb aid bas the. Britisb Go-, er.umen·t a temp·tied to g·Jve ·1w
~
· .· hat is calJed sub~.i dy ·1egislation ·- ·A. I will gi,·e you f,h at to a· frac tion. From th oonl'n1encement and introtluetiou of steam o:n. the ooean
np 'to ·t he pttsent 't1ime, in that one 'item of' subsidies. alone,. witbou:t any
re.g ard to the dividend contract\. wi ·- hout auy re,g a,n l to tbe other great
advantage , .glle bad, E1ogl . ud as. paid oot fro1n 1850 to the 1,r •· · n·t
time 1 163,653,356 in mo:ney~ ·•
,Q. R ow m1any li.nes did she gi've i ·t to, - ·A . Sbe used 1t. precisely as
I .s.t-ated before,· the ,s ame as she used b ~·r military· JKnver Where:ver
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it w·a s ~ec.ess&ry to defeat op.position to Bngli.sb interests ,a. large sum.
&be pai,d tl1ere.
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112
JlELATlONS, B :E TWEEN LABOR AND CAPITAL.
Q.. How much beuefit did the general shipping interests get. from the
s.nbs.i die-s paid to ,g i.v,en lines 1
• She pa-id su·bsi.d.y·until very r ,e euotl,y
on th ~ North Atlantic. until -be ,g ot eom·p lete poss.es -·ion.. Be 'ides, tbat,
'111:!"e h;qva
· . sh'1"'pga1 q:,~a-.·,uvv,
,fUl,A ooo
M " 1rr.,q1~
.;,,,11,i cl
. tn her
..·.·. , ma
: ..•-1~ 1_]116 •1,·
• v.::9·, 000
. ,,, i. .. ·u: ndar
•
,~ . .
theSJ ·· eootracts1 which 'I h ve tri.e d to est· blisb in this eonntry, s:he sent.
out 'h er enterprising ·m en, b · r p:ioneei ·1, w·h.o weut into the countries o_
f
,S ou -h Arnerica a.nd ther · ·ried. to estQ/bli -. ·h trade a.nd build up s.t ·am s hip 1·.nes - Io ev,e ry oue of those countri.es wbieh wanted communica
tion with the ouhride w·orld aud had it not her e.1 't,e rprising -i~o.p le ,g ot
contracts. a .-iu Br.azil_ Those line .- were e,·tahl.ished.. tried tbe same
·plan, and supposed our country would do it-.. We have wonderful a.dva tag,-s in developing a trade of an~ kind.. For ·n tan,t,_, I am uow
interested ·where there is a line of steamem ·r o·nuing from here to Ha~
·:ana,. and w·e ge . near·Jy all ·t hat-trade.. The uearne_s l1el1>s o to 1Send
ont ou:r manufactured ,goodSi tbu-e in advance of EngJa.od.. - entered
into a;o arrang: .men·. vl.r th th ,_ o, :- rnmen·t u·f Brazil for· the purpose of
estabJt,,Jring maH communication be·tween the United.,States aud Brazil
I got. a eond.i.tional contract. I came to our own country a.n1'1 if' e,¥-er a
man w41s, vilified b th · N w · or·k p1ess an:d 'b y spe . eh ·s made 1n Congre s--caJled "ajobher," ,eall,et,1 ' - ~ subsid.· l obb,f h,t '-! was.that man.
I 1_1 1t my m1oney into lhnt line to Brazil. started _he line, a.od m,a de it a
suec·· s; bot the . e·ry ,·:pe · :b . mad·_· in tbe Hou•·,e of ",epreseotati,r.es
iu w ·ashi.ngton aµ:a.iHsrt ·m e wt.re trans,Jatti··d into the Brazilian I ngua~;;e.
and eopied into the 1; razilian pope.rs, an~I. ·when the ap•p rop,ri.ation bUl
cam.e up to pay me my mone,y it w·as 1- id on th.,e tab:le, a.nd the coot.rd.ct - as wir tlraw:u, tlc suppos.ition b .ing that the American people
w.a ntell nothing to ,lo, with llrazil, 'tb.on.,g·h a.t tbe· sa.m,e time w,e ·w ere
purehasi ug ,160,000,..0 00 ·w ortb of coffl'e fr-on1 Brazil ; and it is to tb ~
shanie of 1bis great.natiou that, you cannot buy a ingle b:Hl of' exobau,ge
and seud.it to Brazil direct and ,g -t. it casbed there.. If y·o u want to b03
coffee from. Brazil 3700 mu .'t ~end 3·onr mO'ne1 to England .and there
draw· o 'bHJ.. 'T b · e·o,mmh,sioo,s pa . d antl the exch.au,g e across, th .· w· ter
wonl,d pay for the mail ser 11
0 0 lil e 1i.mes o, er, but I w·.a1
s defeated. AJl
no· tC.'!iC!-ll 'lb ·le· W ·re no·t
1·0 t·h
;i\,t- '"1·0-11 S·o I w··thdre
d i.M!C
11.W "Ult1'"e~
, -·
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. 1e. wa
. . ·.· ·of
... · ] .~ .g1'
· ·s'1h,e
I . _ . '··w
'.
·m y shi.11s, sold ti e.m at a sacrifi.ce,. and dro,11ped the enterpl'ise·~ I mad ·up my ·m ind, bow ver., t. , at I ,~ould es:t ablis1h. that tra-<le yet. I took
tl1os•0 sbi1ls and boud~,d t 11em to m1ys . If at hia)f' w bat tbey .. ere • _ort'b.
:My eredit w·as attacked in this V'ery· ei.ty~ because it _as1s.itd I ·w.aa en..
g.a,g ed. iu. a wild ~c11 : tne tha · no or n could su "·Ceed i ..
.inally, ·w hen
the enterpriise. was wiihtlra· ·n the. old. circu.J -r route was fesorted to
again, so ,ba tbe American ) .f i.uist -r h · d to ,go 1'rori ·_ · ew York to Li,,.·~
. rp-0ol and from Li,"tn·pool to B.razil.. " .R ,e had 'to ~o out o·f ·· - eriea to
get t'o America, and our owu ·( _o¥e-rnm.c. n ·· w.~ paying more b~ _- seod.ing·
·po.ss ng, rs couu ·ct ·•·d ·,vitli th : Na, y ·, a.ucl ·i ts sttpp.Hes, aer-oss. the. oeea1l
to go
he squadron in South .A ui _·· 1·ican waterS:-p.ayingdouble freight
aeros . tb.e ocean-more than woultl pay for t'be whole m1aH ser,v100! .
Tb ~n :a ·r. ·. w· slo" t~1n1 ·:r8 w ·re Jlut on, - . o that they took flour out there
:ancl nothi g else, but ht · be time those EJ)o . · steamer made- a 1nan o.f
bu io . ss could g·o to Li,Terpool atul g•e t to :B·r.aziil befo · . 'b e eonld r ·ae:h.
ther,e cli.n~Jt ·t row b · re. ·Tb.e B,raziliau peor1e saw ·tbe .mi ·take t'b at ,,. as
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road _·_ nnd I
nterecl into n ·w arrao,g e1neot · wit.b them.: ,g ot up a line,
a:nd tha1·_line is ru11oing to-day. I bav·e seen manv a 1nan 111 Virginia
i:o ·t. 'b e floor 'b o· ine s come p here. · ith 5,000 to 1O,UOO bar~els. of ftour,
and if he had. to put his. tlon1 on 'b oard a little sailing vessel, o. to sen,d.
to Liverpool in 0 rder to go to .B razil, h ·w ould 'h ave t,ee,11 ko}Jt ou·t of
--- on~y~
I,b1 _ T . ~~~
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at·. 'it·L~
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113
RELA,TIONS BETWEES LABOR ANl) CAPlTA'L
.,
bnng bis 3,,000 ~ l s of_floor to New Iork 1n rhree days, payio,g the
freigb.t op from RiC?hm.o nd to i. ,ew York , here pnt_it on ~ d , hip get
a reeeip,t for it, and go baok to .Riebm.o nd .~. leas than ,48 boors with his
$20,000 in money_. gettio,g an ad,,.·auce on :hi& bill of Jadi.ng ! No that
the line 'i, , ,.tarbid .·nd, rnnomg· agai , look at, the compet"tio,n there is .
to break it ,d own again, and to :lessen, ·t· · e ,compe,n ·at.ion that I with .m y
assooi ·t es get-fo,r bringiu,g th t fi, .igllt. Tbere are what is kno·\\rn a _
· tramps ·p ut on the d.oeks.. I ·b,rought; coffee to" . ew York from Brazil for
:.Ui cents a, bag-t3. 7J, a torL for- a,t...00 mil,e s-aud a barrel of flour from
Ye.w· ·. ·o:rk, 0,,000 miles, for t ,1 . I am going to appeal to the American
Cong~., · do ot ask :for a ,s,u b$id.y ,, b' · I do a ·k .hew_to repecl that
obnoxious,la•w· which lets a Un:imd ,Stares offioer oome on board my· ship
and make .me carry the man, aucl say~ ' This ship ,c annot clear unless
· . oa tak.e. tb ,, mail at t·h a;t pay which I choose to give yoo."
Q. •·. ow . u,ppose Congress shoul d ~peal t-ba,t law; !;'OU s <J that the
H1ail &en"ice ongb, to be put out ·to the ·1ow,e st bidd r f - . 0 -r itainly.
Q. Wh.en tlle low st bidd.e r gets .1c there··wHI be. one Jiue to each port
t.hat will carry 't he mail. and get tbe be.nett. of thus l•··gislation. H,ow
•·ill that b netit Ameri,can Rhippin gen r&l]y an.d a1d ,-he r estora.tiou
of American shipping t:- A. That is only ae · any a compensation f~,r
doi · g a se,rviee that tb~ nation ants. I do not loo ·~·o pon t as an_y aid
at ,alt The fas,t , H.ne is ,a means of ,communication necessary to facilis•
I ~1 te 'trade, j nst ·. · · t.b e [l ·•htning train oo. the land earries the orden &JHl
mail from. Ne·w York tc0 Chicago,,by which the,freight tra1n.s are loaded.
St.op t.h e ·m ail train ·b et.ween tw great citie ·, ,a nd will you n,ot stop
trade ,
,Q So.·ppose i.t is j1nst compen . tiO'D :for aetn~ 1 service do,ne, that . e1·,--iee will be done bJ· one line of s·b.i ps to ,e ach port ·f -A .. Probably "f
that ser'["iee was eo,m.peDsated ·. here.. w,ould. be two lliines inside of a ,y ear.
Q.. ow would .· at atfoot the flOWer of t ' ·· ·. · li - . tha,t carried th.e .mail
to root oot •he other Elhip . -A. .l't , .1l'l dect i't i .· tbi •. way . The fonr·
hor .·. w·a go,o on. t:he ·p -u blic ·r oad i~ d•ln··· 3\l"B ,J" · ith. ·h.e mil.road does the
b-· in.ess., -. -nd l 'believe -uohud.,~cnan:p lain. of that Doe, -, the fast 1nail
traiu on th .' land do til\r,·1, ,vltl1 tb . freight uain_t Some men ·eem to
i-h~n·k we donotwa.ul fd..~t m ii :tud passen ·.ie r·aooonunod tions fo trade
on the a'te:r, ·while the t1· lde ou the land cannot tlo, wit.h oo ~· it-. In
IMO, before }JD<rl~nd fuUy oom ~ne:1c~ tbe . ntroduct1on ,o f team, sbe.
fitr;.s1ghted., saw· tba .teamn : as ,goi u0 • to take the place of .ail. She
·w ent on, s :nd. ac'tua.'. 1~ ubsbUz tl ..· . .·am lin s a1,.rainst ber o . n sailin,g hips. Sh.e luwl 14:!, ...J ~ :men euiaged in ,~1Il·i ng hip,-,Ibut; she s _. · that
if she did no·t start. .-, 11t', policy so1oe other uat10 .·. wo . ,d ;et ahead or
he·r . T .h en ·be_bad oH s .~~JOO men ·i u tean1 \"'e~sels.. Now, by 'th.e eacoorage:men.t o.f Bn a1u. ~tu• ·has ov -r 100.,ouo me · ,e . •ployed in steam
Veti&el and b{t.t B V ' r~~ ~t 11· 1U un,mber in ailin · a.~laiJ)~.
She has aetnalJ.~
leghdated her own iSail111·. ~sl11Jt~ oft tbe ocean, bot 1he benefit 'has all
,c om•e bom.e ·t o Engl:trul i11 t:u, t."ad. Wbat, sh · lost oil one side she
gained on tbe oth~1~.
I reme.mb .· . r once H 111,;11 1 ,~,01u.·1•&! ht ·m.e _in a sh;;p-•y ai•l and wanting
wore ,actual pro'fectioH tor ·1h lnuhUn;r of' wDCMlen ships, bnt be :had a
mau ·m the 16a,'\V-pit;, HH(,l out 111aH nn 10,1, of' th•~· log, itn,l auo her on,e·
runn,i ng _,h at saw· op ~uni •lu.wu6 I, , -d,I h; bin, 'Iii (Jorn. re ancl J!t•·t a steaniengine and pn·t it t b~na.,'7' 11(~ 8: Ii, I, "~ ·rbut \ti: I kllOt ~ k aJ l Cbe fellows,
·t hat ·w or·k u,p aad. (lo"~II ont 111" 11,1,~i, n~u•~k~"' ' l h. ti wa~ l1is idea,. So
·t&ere, .i s the crl'"', that it: ,·,,u ,;,11 ·jo1u 1:,1•· Kh,.1t1.:n )"On ·will interfere with.
1,
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·,saUin,g•-s.hips.. There c,•a ,,1 he un 1110Ho1 H1{r h,·re :for certain reaso•s., ~e
minate you ma -e a thi.ug 1.aroliuiblu utber people wiH step into il
8-c 2,-(o LAW)
.
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114
RELA'TIO' ·. ·S, BETWEEN LABOB, AND ·C.AP'l!J'AL~
1
T.he, ship ·t hat carries the mail h,aa to ,p erform a service that an ,o rdinar.r
carrying sh,i p does not4 She; ha8 to ha1. ·e greater speed; she.baa to mi,k,e
stops at eeir tai'n ports whether ahe haa trade there, or not, which mi.g ht
'be required in girin,g .a mail oon.,raet. _ You im.pose dntiri; upon her·that
do ·n ot upon the other Mh.1p,. All ,g reat commercial houses, b.a,",e
their traveling agents 'to drum up trade. Th.e faat mail shi.p,is the. trade
.Jrnmm.e:r o,f the nat ion. f the· fa.st mail line was 1tarted, 'tbe trad,t
would iuerea ,. ·, ,a;ud the in.creased trade ·would increase the de,man.d for
J"'OO
1
1
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.ships~
Q. Now, sup,poae we restore our sb:tp'(J,'i n,g, wh.a tai:e, wegoiugtocarry
_on the se&~ to 0th.e r countries; how are we going ·t o freight the ahi'ps I.A . I will give y'0ll my ,e:xperienee.. 1 am, enga,~d DOW' in tbia, ·B ~H
,line, and. I will .gi~'ll yon a mco.r d o'f :the eairps back and forth. Tb~,
1
cargoes out- .a.re cu,mpo&eti of Oonr a · ·t1, .breneral meroha di86.
Q. l\'ha,t sort of merchand.i se ·~-...~- JJ,oots aud shoes, dl'J'..goods, iron
·11,.or:k,,&c~
Q.. re we exportiog those t .h1ngK '.f -A~ ~s.., The 'F-~rba.uks ·Company, · believe, 1Snpplies ,alm,ost all th~ scales,used. in ~razil and Boen.~
Ayreslll We bring back coffee, '1Dbber,, dye.. woods., and eug.a r., It,would
be an ad't'antage to our count~y if' w~ could 'P a). for the, too,000,000 of
130:tfee , ve buy ·in Brazil in flour aod general merchaodiselll It wo·u·td
'bring t·hat much ·more money 'home; it w·oold put so ma,03· mo~ of oo:r
· p-· so
, u uiait··. WO
pP;odu;r.u,
- ·e!o!a,
d·, a,v e·u···,t·uaU·Jv by
0_ -w
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o ·. p·_., 1
.·.' ."rk
·" · to
._·..··,
. a·
--"""' tb
. -~
. bioa.
.1__:_a~,
. _ th
.'.· •t
a .
·policy, tarried out, for a certain :number o · years, you would bfleak.down
t'be grtat ·d iffieolty in. the wa)· of cbeapening' money.,
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118
·t·
THE
mo ~· AND
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STEEL INDUS1·BY,
Q . You mentioned, this. morni11g tb·ree of oor industrj.es, the woolen,
t 'h e cotton,. and the irou . ·nd steel.. Yon stated tbs 1t w. ·. ~•e ry impo1
tant to k,e· p the one,r that was pa·id ·by the coosume·r, for what 'he hail
to consl11ne in · ,'bi• country by pa;3dng it to Am•e,r iean producers, Now,
take tb .· iron a d, 1steel industry.. · .··ha't is oo:r eapacity to ..day eom.p ared ,vith ··he ,eous11n1pti,oo .· .How do our producti,o n and our consnmptio,n
,compare I A. We ]:ave £"teilit·.e , to ,:roc:10:ee w'h at , ,e should wa·u·t 1f
·w e di.d not import.. Tbere would ·oo no over~·p rod,uetion if we supplied
oo.r · wants at hum,e. instead ot buying· iron and steel abroad.
Q,. Why was the. iron i'odnstry depressed mu:ch m.ore from 1873 to
1879 than it is now, when th· re ., a . i.n 011eratioo a tariff entirel,). . satis~
factory to the iron prodoeen. -A.. A ·b usines_ eould :n ot be d,e pressetl
wl1eu its product iucre.as.ed 1,00 p ,r ·" n·t. 111 tbe tim•e y·ou peak of.
Q. l't, •. eu on and 1>rosp _r~d nJ) t-o 1880, when ,SO many· railroad . '
were beiog built in this country· 1-A... I had the num·b er of tons ·p ro·duc .· d, a,ud it increased in the 'IJeriod you ~pea.k of . ery hearly 100 per
-eent. A bo!siu,e ss oool,d not have been in a v,ery depressed condition w·b eu
it grew u.p so · _s to ine,rease 100 per ce1~t~, employi11,g 100 per ,c ent ·m om
labor and more capitat.
Q - What wa.· th:e, mount of i~on anid steel production .i n ·t bis coun~y
-last y,e ar .; tilo you kuow t-A... I bave not fhe figure here, bot I can ,g et
the, .
,Q, The statbJtics &av,e been pubJi·., · ed latel\y,. an() the amount ·iR
4,600,000 tons,, aiod a Jitt1.e OVier, of ·pi,g..iron, say, of whi.ch over a milJ1on
1
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't ons ·w ere nu&old~
There were· a tn,illion ton , ·more prodaced ·t hajn were
1
sold in the market last Y'e ar f-Ai I ,d o 'DOt question yo·o r .figures as, to
the 0 ver'-Pl'od.uc't;,100,. bo:~ I ,d,o know this,, tba,.t we, imported last y.ear
1,335,371 tone, of irom in formof11ig- ·i ron, miJroad bars.,,-ofiron an.d s,teeJ,
1
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
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at,eeI. ingots, &e, 'lhiis rep:~ uted~11 la~r ,7alne on the other side the
sea or above..t67r,OOO,OOO. The pig~-iron ·· ■- the haais 'from whieh all the
other p·rodncts oom.e. ll w,e had used.onr ,0 wn pig•iron iaatead
in,g a , million tons of ove~protluctioa,, we ,s hould ha:ve , ,i mp,l y met the
demand, and k,eip t Ameri.ean :labor w,ell empl.oyedl and recnJarly paid.
It is better· 't o ha,v e overwproduotion , ban O'Dder-·p rodoetion, for surely
there can be no monopoly whe re ,o ver.. pmdnct10:n prevails..
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PBODUCTliO N A.ND OONSUMPTIO'N AS .A .llP.i ICTED BY
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d_.:steeJ
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. . n .e tha t_onrcapac1_y
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.. exeela, tu
Q~ If
l~DSum·p ti.oo,, how would that affect tb.e ability of the prodacer of i;r on
and Rteel to- pay the. laborer t A . The capacity to produce ia ,g reater
tbao 'be ca:paciiy. to oonsome, as lon.g as yon allo·w' 16·7,000,000 worth to
oome in here, but why is, ·i .'t that t ·67,000,000 wo,r t·h was not m,ade at
home t Bimply ~use, under your pre1ent Ja,w· ', it eoold not be madle
be.re with oo.r rate. of•wages..
Q~ Then yo,u wan·t the d.uty on it ine.reased so, aei to prohibit tbe
im;pt,r.tation o.f ·tll.e 16,7,ooo,ooo worth.l~A.., No; but do want some
settled policy b:·. which w,e can ·k now what is to oome, and keep a stook
on hand from. a falling to a rising mark,et~ Iron will n,ot spoil.. But
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wha·t , oompaBy will ,go,~ ·w or·k .tu~dil;y and make a, million doUan' worth
,.,
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. g nex1t ,y ,e ar to
of ll'OD
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. · e tarift'
Q. 'The tariff that wa& revisoo. by ·the laa,t Ooogress,. you &aiY, ·is not
high. enou~b, and oug.bt to be 'ioc.reased to enable the man·a faeturers ·to
,s.o stain these ind·o s.tries.----A. Yet tbe next Oongress 'talks ,of ·t aking up
the tarltt" aga.i o ior- furtber revision.. lt is the u.-n certa1ut. ,IMI· to wha't
the result of t,aritl' tinkering will be tha't , ooeettlee trade ao.d ·w,ea·t e·D' •,
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,Q4! I want ·to know how the power to produce atiects the abili~y of
them n _fnoturerto pa .-even the present rate of wages.. If this abilit:r
to p·r odoee g,oos on iocreasiug b,y p otectton and by i.nd.oein_g invest-men' . will not the prmluctio:u be increased so that it will run ahead. of
,,onsum_p tion •01: ·. thau it ,d oes now·.,[ and. red nee the p·rice, of 'prodnol i,o n
and affect the po,wer to pay wages,!-~ There wou·ld be no ,Q'ver,.p~
d.u etion 'if w·e were -oot importing,. as I said.; cap,i tali .ts do not want to,
iuTtest capi'ta·1 in. a thing that 1s goi'og to be-legislated a.boot ·nex·t y,e ar..
Oo the ta-r itf ~JJlltallsts ·w ,a ot ome, settled Jt0liey so ·.. to kno·w w'h at
·the:v ,·'M doiog. The growth of ·t he. conn,'try ·will m,ore than keep np
- ,e. 1ncr
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,Q. Is it your o:pinion. that the woolen a.nd ,e otton and iron and steel
indostrle .oftbi,- oou.o tryca.n :p ro peT by being·coutinedaloneto American mark·. ,t s.1--A . . o m,ee.t. that ,ques·tio·u w·e,··sbould ·_.t least be able to
supplJ' o:or -own wantH first. .l f l 011 do [s omething that will enab.le ns, to
sopply ,011r b.ome ·. · ants you will give labor to thou .and, · of men who are
complaming of idl · ness, a11d you will call forth thousand . . ,o f ,c apital for
inVfL't ment,[ and yon • ill get it in Alabaaa-capita ·t ·h at is erow,d in_
g
itsel.f ro-d•y in G"o,"ernment bon.ds a·t a low rate of'intere,e,t.. If you will
do ._- om,e thing of tllat kiud you. will 'b rin,g forth that condition ,o f thingrs;
t,he 1oillions' worth of iro·o , ,oo·t ton, and woolen procl-ncb imported last
year would be rnade at b.o-me, and our idl.e labor be emplo:yed.
- Q . ·ave. ·w e not powe enough. .no . in all these cotton,, woolen, au.d .
iron aud 1
Hteel ind1u~tries oo produce ab,undant,1.J all tha·t we need '!,- A.
llo, s:i r; not if w,e do no·t import.
Q, You say then that tbe ~woolen-:m il~
,· .' the cotton-mills, ao.d the "iron
an,d steel.. mills, ue, not able to, eup,p·Q' .· · · 'merie&'D eonsnmptioa •, A~ I .
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'116
RELATIONS BETW'E EN .LABOR AND CAPITAL.
have a s,tatemen·t, sent ·t o me
.f rom
~
the Treasury Departme~t si~- l
,h ere. last, certuymg that, that eon·d iti~n of . things~ h~ taken PbMle•
Taking the avem,ge for ·t en years on those.three 1n.d·a 1tn~ 1t woo.Id .make
an ,e xpenditure o.f .11,187,000,000 of ~on.e y sen.t oat of this oonn·t r)... to
b ;o y iron and cotton and woolen goods to clothe th,e. American people..
If those ,1,.1s1,ooo.,ooo were spe~t ~a t home bow many churches, schooJ.hoases,. towns, a.n.d cities, __ ou.ld they have built up, · nd in the building _given emp1oy -.e nt to thousan.ds of peop·te · I cannot "illo trat.e tbL
,, n.J ore forcibly than by po" ·ting· to two see't,ion.s of the country, o,oe
where the policy -I speak of ·wa8 adopted as a policy, and ~mpariog Jltt!
wealth .a nd the. amount i.1; has _p ile ·u p, ·w ith th .- t :section of tb•e -con .tr,
wh·i ch thooght it - a a better _pl .·. . t,o ·b uy· iD England · ·h e ploug~hare·
that ploughed its, own soil, rather than to eoe.o~g~ the makin,g of it at
·h ome ,o ot oif its,own iron. -There is a &,t riking fact before ·n s, and.it •com.es
down to the very ffrst, p,rineip,Ies, that where yon have the ra:w ,m aterial
1f you d.o not ap,p ly la.box to 1t there comes ~o w·ealth.. In that section
of the ooun·t ry called the South the mo re labor ·t hat is .applied to, what
God .h as gi.v e,n it, and ·w hich is buried in the earth, tbe sooner it will 'be come ·wealthy· and rich, because lal>or applied to,your natural resou.r-oos
is the fo-un.d ation of your · .·ealtb11 'Y our mountains of ore in Alabam· ·
are worth little or nothing to you onl~s something JS don,e that will
,g ive labor with ,c apital encouragement to go in and deve op .1t•.
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POLI0Y A.B TO SHIPPING .
By Mr.. CALL,:
Q.. You ·will not .let us h.av~ a.n_y· shi'p ..yivda down t- ere. You have
taken .away t_he. ,only on,e we .h.ad at Pemsaool~ !-A. How many· ahips
did y·o u ,e v,e r build ·t here · 'T he_y ga ---e Jon a fair chan.e e ao.d you did
n.o t do .any·thing.
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Q. You would not co·m e dow.n there 81ld hel.P us.-A. Oh, ves, I
would; bot I am, too old a man to get replanted. I do not like to ,d ig
np ol.d t ,r ees and replau.t them; I ha,v e ·t1■ied it .
B_y ·· r .. PuGH:
Q. It 'is dan.g eroos to transplant an old. tree I-A . It i . Now I will
make. a sog_ges.tion1 I would. deal more with the.shipping ,q uestion, bot
I thin.k I have said eDough about it. Bot wou.ld it not lle w:iae for oar
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at ,o ther nati.ons, wbieh ·h a e .m.a de the. effo:r t after they had studied bet·
polie~r'' Franoo .h ad the prt ilege of buying ships in E•n gland in the
cheapest market.. .S he bou.g ht them., bmug · ·t them home, :a nd 't ried the
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experiment 0 f running ·them .; she d'id not su.cceed; an-d Eogla11··~ could
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not succeed m r11uu1ng them. atter ·t h•e y were built until she ado_p ·t ed
the po icy of protection to the ship on. the eea. France then passed a
la- · to meet the case. I ,d-o not want to see an.y law passed by which
the 1B•h~p-bui~de.r is ,g oin~, to p ·t.any bounty ~e ,d ~ not wau~ i~ · ·t?U
may give all the bounties 1n the world ·t o 1bip..b mlderi .-, aad shi -a _·_· :l
not be built. T he demand has got to, eome for them flmt.. The man
wh.o wants the aid is, the man who owns and runs the shi.p9 and who
pots his. ,cap~t.al into tile ship tor, the twenty~.ftv,e :yea_
ES ,o f her .l if~ The
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hi 1s built
"'"'"'I ~-·n~d ~ ,~ •--d
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._- •d_ear' cap11a
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and muat be ·p. rot;eeted ,-e;
AiY,a-JRst cheap·
··: ital and cbP,.:SUlJ
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Fmoce h.as, paued a general law, leaving it open. to all citizens,,oJfer~
ing: to enpse ships for .a certain nwnber of years to run in ·t be, foreign
trade and develop for-eigo commerce for· France, opening· markets :for
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117
BEL1A'T f,O:IS BETWEEN LABOR .AN.D CAPITAL.
th_.
Fnmch m.au.u.f aetored goo4a, in Sonth. Ameri~ and othereountriea, amt
bringing back
prodoc~ gi.Vln so muell a mile~ England went
.into.this m_tter and taxed her ~·WD peopl~ ~d _sh~ has ·Jl!lid out tbe:
$1.w ,000,000 I halve al·r ead_y s:Pt?ken of ,n.t hln the last, ·t hirty ,y ea&.
It. was not " bapi:elle; it was only·half w·h at she earned Jaat y,e ar~. She
J>aid ,1169,000,0UO to haild. the trad -_. u:p, and 1sb.e, brought back last, year
-$300,,000,000 of' ·. mings to her w•o rk'ing peo·p le, Look at it and ,see. if
,olt ean adop·t any pt1licy, wiser than that, acconl'ing to the last year's
statistics, encou ·. -~~: g capital _ to go, in~~ sbi.p pin_g,, _givtn.g so m.u eh a
,··c a,r , p&)iog in t-h irty· y .- rs f 169.,000,000, and oot ,o f ·t hat poli~y bas.
:,:row.n up .a fleet that brought :her bac 1 · 300.,ooa,(KN) l&st ye.ar.. This is,
•·he resn.1t of .- ngl ,n d''s radical protectio to her OOJ:Htal a·nd labor·ou.th e SP& Wh.e n. tb.e questioB tomes up with regard to cbeap mone:Y there
i:s the grand secret of it- 9300,,000,.000 o:f moue~ e,·ery ~""ear drained into
England's ·t reasury on.t ,of' that o.ne identical interes·t alone, wbe·reby she
does not impoverish ber soil one iota for wb ~ t p-r odnee it.I and it gives.
em.pl,oyment to her o~n. peop),e. S·oppose that Englaud was payiug oa't
·_,1,00,000,000 of' tlt:at for doi11g her c~rrying, as we are doing a.eh y,e ar,
,vould m.o ney be cheap iu E11glan d !know we often 'h ear of · _011.e.r
being cheap :i n En.g land b cause E11glaud. i,s free 'trad,e, and •d· a.r in
America because Am,e rica 1 . protection. I will auswe.r tha;t.. England
·, ..a.s a prot ~i e oou try of the: mos·t ri,g id ."nd ntil she made mon.ey
•e heap lo 1680 she bad i ta'.x upon ev,er5 ton of pig·- iron that came into
4,·reat Bi·it :n of 120 a ton . which is 00 w y·ery near double what it
eost • ·. be foUo ·ed that poli~y of big·b ll~otec,tion u:ot1l 1867., · be -.· ·. an1e .· free-trade nati.on. then.. _.-i y · · Sbe. b.a d heriro · inte s , hicb
l' - the comer- tou · o,f a.11 lu~r wealth, d.e v loped to sneh a condition b.)
t.11e ad. antages of which I ha.,..
1,oken, of low tmnsportation, of 00111-•
,-enien 1-a. · · material, u·ntil -h • could ·p roduce ehea:11er iron than au,~
n~ tio11 in th~ world.. T.hen she ,vas for tr-ee ·t rade in iron and free. trade·
Ju sbi.p_. ·w ell he could b nild sbiJ ·. cllJeaper th·-·n any otbeT· nation, and
tor n~e trade in ·b read wben sh .··. eonld ·n ot rdise enough to feed :h er own
peopl,e a1 .d had no more -·.oil to dev·eJ.op, · ·ntl when a igJi pru,e for bread
wuuld iucreas tbe ,c ost of manufacturing. She was for f:ooe trade itt
b1~ad and free tr, . le in cot ou when -1ie had h r oonntless millions. in . .
T"ested in cotton mills, because s'he coultl not raise 'the •cotto,n her1s J.f.
It ·.·. as, a ·m at,t er o ·necessity with be.r . She was.·fo1" :free trade .in lumber
when s'be eo- -.Id not produce lom _.r herself. Sbe is for 1ree trad.e in
a- )Tthing and everything that 'D. la.nd cannot Ilrotluce, an:d for fi. ·
trade in ·a11 those tbin.,g s that ,be can produce ebeaper than other people.
Sh · W&S for th,· . rno - t rigorous kind of p,1-ot~ctiv JlOlicy in tho e thing.s
wbere she ,oon]d ·n ot compete ·w ith :bP. ,other Hation .. Her ,. ealth ·h as
eoni.e from protection. She. baa gual'ld.ed it by th.at puli,cy. It i · liko
~owi g a crop of' grai11 A man o« rriea around on his si! 1oolder a half
bushel antl scatte--, · 1 0n th - ,grou.nd, bot wb.en h , e-001 · back on that
swne ground to t,h ra ··h on t his gm.in, l,o o k at th.e ,c rop. ·T he fe · millions
England pai,d out to, subsidize .her _·h ips was 1SOOD to be a. productiYe
crop. She ue, er d"'d a iS ingle thing in the 1utereat of an, country but
En.g.l and When I se t to get the information to which I peciall~..refer . obtained t·b e most inter.~s t~ug informatiom you could p.r obabl;r
hat"
I en.t ove:r ta .•. old statutes., o · ,G reat B·rita;in and h · .r poli~~t-0wards tb'is 00-ontry. I deJy any :m an to say ·hat 1t'he ·waia not• our
deadliest ··nemy i.n all onr struggles . I eao p.r oduce to 3:- o u a statute
wherieby it was a ·penal 011;-euse to end modern roaohine11· to Amerira,
the machinery was ·coo.8scated Jrom th - owner aJJd he was sent to jai1
nnder· a :penalty of 100 pounds foreommitti.ng· tbe ,erim.e. I eonld point
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11•8
RELATIONS BE.T WEBN LABOE..A.ND CAPITAL.
out ..n manner of legislation.that ·was instituted for the purpose of p1,e.-
venting this country from bein.g able to ao.p pl,y its own wan·ts.. ·1 can
·t ell yon to-dar that th'is great hue an.d cry tb,a :t is got u.p about '-'·1u<►no.p oly" in · ·his con"Dtey is part of the same policy. There is n1omo~op(J)y here. The eey is, got up, to, .h ide the great blow that is_going to be
stmek :a t the industries of tbis oouutr:y by the..E·ogU.sb policy. It ·was
mad.e a crime for au enterprisin g meehani.c in. Engl~_nd to put o · board
ship, bound for Am.e nca an 'imp,r-oved m,achine for fear e W'Onld teaeh
Americans to mak·.. •it I hav.·e seen in my own da.y1s, the first 11·· ti. · tn1n ing lathe and. the firist little p,laning macbiu.e b-rou.·b·t to .Ameri~ anti
we im~rted the 1na;u. to mn- it, and. ·t hat man came ov r nd we·paid
:Jiiw double psyfor·.a ttention totbe twomaebin ee. A schoolboy ·w ho ,con1:~~
out of the, public school .· to-d.ay and goes into my· workshop, · i.t h on ·
or t .w o years' ,ex1,eri,e neecan. do a:· mneh as. that man w·b om ·.. ·e i'lu1port· d
at that time,11
·Q~ You. are a friend of ·t he En,g lisb syst·. ·m o·f :p rotection, but yon al' : an enemy of the .E nglish eyste:m of fr-ee trad.e t A . The m.om.e .t th.at,
E 1n gla d es:tabl!she s a form. of govemm,e n;t whereby tb.e ·workingman i •·
brollght up to the sam e plane that he is he.re,, then am. ready to, bol,ct
up 'both hand_1s for free trade with England, but•I do not ,approve of a
poli.cy that allow •. the products of tl'lat country·, of ·w'blcb 'IMJ, per OOBt.
is labor,,. pro<lnced by ·t hat.ground ..down labor, toente.r into ,eompe·tition
in t'ltis Ul.arket _. ,i tb the p,r odnots of our own wor ~.in.gmen.•.
Q. When wi11 that. condi.ti.i00 of ·t hin.g s.cease;, when will the nooessit,·
for tbi ., pr-otection. cease iu,·t h.i s country t-A.. Th · t will eease when. •. -e.
bold firm. j1nst wbere w,e are :now· and by tb.e great light,w e,ba·v e throw.a
out ed.ucate tbe great mas .·. of ·the ))e9pJe all over ·the world till they
come up t.o that, .standard where tbey will dem.an.d the _ame rights as
the workiu.gman has here. The· tim,e will ,com.e then.
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P.'.Kl'CE OF MAN · .P'A CTUltDlG LA.BOB ..
Q.. I will tro·o ble you with a few ·01ore i'nquiries. on •·nother -matter.
I understood. you to state that in 'the woolen mills the :pri.c.e of Jabo
paid was ,2 a day !-A., No,I,sir. I 1Spoke of the a·ve:rage price of lal)or
io about tllat proportion in. the iron int-er.est.
Q. Do ,y~n. : y· that in tbe ·woolen miHs tbe ·;verage wage is. 1,2 per
d n.:v 11 A N' 0 1· do- n·o-·,,_ t"hi"nk
- oo1
- t'·rade
__·. . th
_ _, · t·', "o !OU' 1'"n
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there are many_femal,ea at work tbem. The ave.rage in. the iron 1nd11Stry I said. w.· e 12 a d.ay here as aga;in· t t:L25 in Engla,n d.. ~e .a · erage·
would bold good in the. cotton facmries.tn the,same proportion. It m:ay
u . otl be as, high as ·t he big ··est.
Qj I happenecl JD a v·ecy larg~ woolen mill th,e o ,' h.e r ,da:y at Woo:· ao•,ket, a.nd I ·t bi·n ~ you wil_l · nd tbat they pay there fo,r ·weav,ers an.d
spinners about a.dollar .. nd a quarter · da ·.. A .. T .h at is eorreet, bnt
the sam:e c]aas of ·worke·rs in E·urope w-ork for- 60 cents a day. ,
Q. And it, · a . not more than a dollar and a quarter al 1d ay in he s'ilk
~anufacto ry of the Cbeneys iu. Oonnecticu.t.-A. · ·be ame ,c·1a ··: of
"-ho
.,. ... : r 1. .·..· wor:k"'
, .1ng ·1. 0 E::.. n..ro,p e .~.a:or· 160
~ ·•-.· cents.
. Q.. ··.· on sa-y that th .· operatois ~ ·tt.ing t .:2 a d.a:r ·i n the iron a1u,l st,e . l
indns~ry ,a nd :runui·ng it, out into woolen and cot;to,n industries , an(l
there getting .t :2 a day e·o ables.them to h.ave better hon.s es, be.t ter cloth
in,g, to ·be bett,er fed, a·nd to have more comforts than similar' laborers
get. in Eng-'fand. Now w.i ll tr2 a day . . thi eicy enabl a :man. to Ii-~e
out11ide of the tenement honses '! -Ai ·_ . man. doe.CJ not work.·for . 2 a ,day
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11~
KELATIO·N·s BETWEE·N'· LABOR AND CAP.I TAL.
~ere. I p·r odn~ my pay-roll b ·.re la.Rt week., _au.d the a,..emge. wage -.~
of' a mecbanrc here, taking· thie w·bole scale, is from t4 clown to f2.50.
Q. If yo·u have read w11at they state, they all rs ay that theJ am not
able: to li.v,e on ·t he wag·es they get -_D.Y'be~te·r thJan they d0r liv·e, and thac
iis i'n tenement ltou.ses, with 110 , entilati.on no comforts no luxuries~
They tell ns that the ab ,olute nee•e ,-_ ·ities of liJP cannot ·be proc,ured in
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this mark t ·w ith
bat ·t h~y ,g et~ ·t hat i's wh ,t th y all say..-A.. With
n1y ~xpmience I will tr1 to explain th · t. I belie.,,,.e that a pro.lieut, sai-..
ing ·man can ltYe more oomfortab1~ in t 'h i - ooun.tr;'; ·t.h an any,vhe:m else
1
in th.e ·woi;ld., and ·w ith eare •Q- n sa,-e moue~·~ Tlter·,e · no better ··y -t.ea1.
of edaeatio in ·the world than 1s offered to th. humblest :m an's cllUd in
·th_: country free to all.. To 1sh,,.u- you what an. im.prove,m. :nt our .s ystem
i - o _er a_
nd aboT'e what I ,:ot w·be·n I - a a boy I will tell. you what is d.one·
JD my workshop.. Wh n I '\Vent 'to 'le.1:t.1 my trad · iu Ji: C _York . got, 1..!
shillings a week till I w.a t ent,~ne,, and I 'had to woi-k overtime an<l
otherwlse to try to pay :my board.. b'1. e now to &io · ppren.t ice when he
e.omes ·t·o ·work f:3.00a ·.- eek - 'T h,e id.e awa -_ ··toe"tab1i .,b ·. ucbapol'ie ·os to
ttllow·the bo3~1:o be no ·bnrd,en on his parentB during his ap,prenti.ce .~hip,
but a he,l p..
hen b _rec ~1.ve an ad·vUJ.e e e _ery y _•. ar ,o'f · 1 till b •·i t-~euty.. ~ne, from th.e tim e. be i'• sixteen, 1So that. really the a emge of
h·ia pay d·o rm2 the ft.v e.,years h.e m learning: his trade is f5 or •6 a w ._- •
111at e.nables him oo pay all. :11s o~n expen es,,so ,as not t-0··be a. bur,Ien1~•ud in fact it enables bi·m1to lielp bis parents~
Then, here "J . ~ .:"d ·-.- -. 'hich it would.·1,e a wise ,kiu.g to prom,o - .·t hrough
the press .aud pulpit. Thi a te .noon I suppose· there will. be 100,000
evening papers sold i'n fbe city tor a penny eac_b, mostl,y t tb -. work·ng .
·men. ~ - p.ress l1w;. a wonderful chance 00 d,o_g<KNL f in it th.e peo.
ple, could onlv- read so,me·t bin.g lik·e thi : "A·t the age of .s t teen e ·erJ;·
.onng . an abould. rna·k e up Ju min.d. that he is going to ·1r,e old; th.at.
o1.d age .m us, oon1e o . ; th.at rainy d y will come ·, that bad h. - _-Ith will
•co,me, ancl be ought to think that 1·. e mu t aecompli b ·· ·_ methin•."
Thou·._-- nds of young m~'D tbiok ,o f it~ I ·t u.o w .tba.t man.. _un rlertake t•o
.a·,e t an etl cation beyond what our p 1blie .s chools. giv them~ If' that
pictore wa drawn for tllem it .m ight do a great deal of ,gooo. Before a
·man bas, to go to .a tenement house to liv,e be ongbt to hav·e m d.e som ·provndo~, be ought to have had somethings ved. ·op. A great d,eal of
f,hc troubl · - that are eom1._ la1netl of eome from i.dl ness and want of
econom1y; and if. ou were to go amon.a these me.n ·w ho make t;ho _ .com..
1,laiu.t s .YOD speak. ,of 1 ,011 would .fiod Ollt t.h a,: there is oue Ji.ttle extraT"aganre an.d another little - · travagance that ,o ught not toe- i ·t .
w111
iHostrate that by t , ' O boy .., oommo,n ·. 1boe. blacks oom1og acros · on the
fe,rIJ1-boa ti-om. I~ ng Island.. I me·t . little boy, a s.b.o e-black Of
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conrse be came p tosee.k em1ployment. Said he, ''Bo:·s, a _bln •.." I
pu out my foot and he ·aid do•w n tile traps th t he -, ,a d.
ie had a ,
"igarette
hi. month s.moking. W.hlle he was shi'ning I ask.ed hi:01,
'·'How old are you .- " "Thirteen years of' ag ..'' "Have. yoa ·b een to
'"' chool ." '·' ·y e , I " -as t school till was[t el ,et" I pn.l I·· d out of·m..
side-poo·k et. a la:r g,e wbjte eo\"'·'.")OJle. aod pencil, and -aii.d I, "How far
ha.v,e ,y on ad _.. a.nced in your education -~ Said be, u1 ha'f."e 1.earned to
a.gore/~ ''\Ve.H, I want to put. 1·ome questiOll!S to you; 0, swer the
questions/' ·T he boy ·t boagbt b - ·_ as lo .· og too m.u eb. time ,o·n that ·
0 · e sbin~, .a ·. I _so f 8 · id,, "_
I will. pa.·. y ,o tt. and Dl.ft~e it a profita.b le as
any work ,you ba, . dnne f"or a long tim_e. Now, bo _· many cigarettes
do you smoke ·i n a da.y .. " "J mok,e foor." '" .__ -ha d.o yon give for
each. cig:ir,ette T" '' 'One cent." "Multi.p ly that b:Y 4 and that is I
cen : . :. L O , how ·m n • days are the11e in a •e ek t" u · v n -" "And
in
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BELATION8 BE"rWEE
1
.LABO·R .AliD CAPITAL,
you 8Dloke Bandays too!'" ''Y8ij." ''_Multi'ply that b:y
_"i
and that is
28 eents. No,v, how man.y ·weeks .~~ there .1.n a mo,o t ,p "'Dime are
.our weeks tn a month." ''That ts 11.12 cents. How muoh. are.all the.
clot- es yoa h· ve ,g ot on :9 our baek worth ! You are the poofflBt dressed
boy a1most eve-r saw.." He ,said, ,,...;,..ot ove·r a dolla_r.," hanging his.
head.. '·' Then you 1s,m oke out a whole suit of cl.o thes ev.ery four
·weekJs'!" " · -res " " _ o·w ,'" : i,l I~, '·' I want to en.ter in.to a contract
with you~" This i . not- the w~y ··wtth all. the ·.·,hoe-blacks .; there are
other clear..he:uled shoo- .la.c~.", but I stal,d to t~is ,one, ''·1 ·w ant to enter
into a con tact with ,y on." and pu.t mv band. into my· poeket and I
fartunatel,y b.atd a. 'b ig round ,doJlar~ I~ ga'.v ,e hi'm the dollar and said,
'' Now, tbis i th·e eond'i'tion, that you wiJI .smoke n.o niore _ci.garettes. If
J~ou, do not keep your contract I wilJ .s ee if' there i ·. not • · law to, ·p u.t you
iH jail." He 2rabbed th · doJJ_a r and went.. Ne ·t morning I caru.e..along
,,ud I will . bo · . ou what h.e ·1 ar1,ed, as young as he was. N x mom
i"og wheo I eam:e· on the ho . t .a.,g ain 1·, . w himl> Whil,c I was at o.neend
of th,e boat be was •_,, th .· othe.r ·~bot he had a cigaret.to i'n his mouth~ ·
,vent to .im an,d took b '~ b,v the ,. ~boulder and · . . id '' I am. go1ag to look
tbr a11 officer to _end yon to Jail ; ,·oo bave committed ,a ,c rime; yo , en .
tcred into a. oou ,.r,act which ~-on ha,~e not kept,:' "·W'ell,'" said, e, ,,,j
had s.i,m lef ·...!t · ' Th. . n I will let ..ou go, if you will promise ·m,e yo
,,HI noi bu. · .auy mor .., He ,· ent ott: · . ~.-· 't day I caught 'him .agam
and tben I wa · d termi ,ed to frighten him.. Sahl ·h e, , , I do not knov.y
· · b,at to· '-!od1,,. ·,. ·"We11 : ~1"•!.I1 I ,,..";V, m ·m1y do'llar" '' I 'l,,,II a-. •- pa not· aio~t 1'"t •·
ft. i gone.' .. ~.~ b,a,;t ~d, ~on do · wi·- 11 t ! l'f ·,rou made good 118 of it J:
do not know tbat. I .ball be erT" hard on you.'' S , id he, u1 wentdo,wn
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to tb.e min~trels and too · t110 other ·0 0,1 8, and. I spent .5 0 cents, .a nd
gave the oth r 50 cen "to 1uJ.. n1ot.her .." '' 'T hen,- aid I,, ' 'I will onl:r
inttlct. on.e~kalf · e 1,u.ui ·b m ·. nt on yoo . ,,ive me h.alf a dollar and 1
w·i ll let :v.ou go . tr Of ,ool1rse h · went., I hav .. oo.n1e ov·e r ·o n that boat
t1:,· 1·y ·morning regULJarly.,, nd I a ked ·t be wan on. th, boa · 1f tho boJ'
before ,g ·•·n · rail · as a shoo-black!! , e ,s aid h
l1a1l been all the . nm mer. but now be had de~rted the boat an,d goo ·_
a, .ay and sought .a .noth r ho t rather · 'b an face me or .g i,-·e ·u p h: ,
ci~ar, tte. If he on y hn·. h :· ,cons ti :u.tion to,- tand 1t he is going to be a
''fond.c rml co1upla1n · r about l .gi ·I· ·t iou after awhile ,
'Theu,, eros in.g th.e Je ~,y CitJ" f rrJ a y :r ago,. _o ·~o ,dow11. 'to
t1
l1c ship-yanl wh·.re I go eve·r y wee·k, I , et a, shoo-b·Jack t,bere, an
iute1ligeot,, bright-lookin<:r la.d aboui, ·s i ·.· t en Y'e M . of a.ge.. He wanted
ajob to shine my boot-.. Of course I ga,Te. it to hi.DJ, and he we·u t ·to
hlackiog them~, Wbil . b ,e ·. · ·- ~ :a't wor I · . ••:k ,e d, " · , ow old are you 1 ·
Such an a,ge~ ,.Yott look bette-r el.o ,b ed than t e most of sboe. bl.aeks
~ ,i l)V' ·· you bee 1 to cb,o ol . ,..
,~ :.,. e . . · "l\ by do y,o:e follow thi uooopa~
tion 1" '' Becaose can mak ·. m,ore money out of tbi- than I ea11 out
of an,, ,· th1 g l · .." " · · Ily lo )'Oll want- ·, his 'Hloney ·~ ·" I have a pocJr
mother and s little .i et r .r, , ,; '\\'"'ell, b io w· Dl.U1el:1. do , ·o n n1ake ~n a w · ek !"
'" I ave.rant·. · d.ollar a d.ay, ~ nd · ca1111ot get a dollar a day at anythio_g·
else, but do not inte, d :o . 'tick · : o this, a -l · _y life.." '' ,No,v,. tell me,
wbat your -. tock i"n tr .de is worth.. 'Ibis is, a ·woud.e rfully profit.a ble
waH tliere as h ·· had. 'b een
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busl n .• ·s,. ~ dollar •.· d · ,y for :. _ boy of youi size. i want to -,see what
ca.pita.I ,y,oo h: ·. · investe ill your .·tock.~' .' .•e sat d,o .· , :and p,n t,,d own
bis bo -. , and gave me the p· :i,ce he paid for the box,, .and. the }lrice that
he pai,d for hi , brush, and th.,e l)rice tha.·t he paid for blacking I asked.
him th.en b:o·w many .b.ines 'he made· ou _of ooe box. · -_ e rold m.e, and
it s'h ow·e d th , · barpnes . ·\\~it'h w'hu~·h that bo,v watched th.e business he
wa.~en~.g ed !. ·~ r am goin~ to wat · la h ·110. I a;m ,going to see 11im
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· · d·!Or1ng ti'oecnpy a ,di_,ll.1!r...,.
u:~rent JNl81tion
· q;,. H." e sat··a, ,,· 1 ,eaa mak
. ~,e a. h-JUD·ielnxl abines out ot·t'ha .· box_of blackio.,g ; tbat ho .· will .s hin:e .a hundred
· · · · - O·f•· 'i,.,..,,.
..... t ,s.
, " ·S
•·d 1··,, ''q'th··
"',.- an· eno.1,u110ua
.·,·.
·p·•-at-. o·'··:". D a·___
fi·va-,n,ant
pairs
uuu
. ,aJ~
~- a tl. 18
rou
·. ~ ___boX.
of blacking ; 1t, ia as profitable as, a; drug sto·re." ·" .But,'"· the boy said,
• "'·I ,d o not m.a ke that on all shilu~ii Once in .awhile,1al·mos..t -every day,, son1e of tbe ·. e me·o from the in't,e rior tbat ,come. here ba,"'e a great big·
flat 'boot, that has not had .ai 'b it of' b,l ac:k iog ou it from the time I shined
i• - last, ifit was a month ago, a·od once in aw.bile it, takes a whole. box
to get·such a man :r igh't, .and I do n ~t ake a · y ·pTO·fit. on th.at."
Here were two boys in th.e same ·bns·iness in l'ife. Oae was able to
tell .a lie and ,g ave op the ·b oat h.e wa.s working on.an,d w:en't off ~mewhere.
else to .a void fa.c10,g m.,e~ Th.e other made. a. careful investigation of
foots, stud1ed out what he was ·m aking, knew aJ]I about the bnsines,. ·b e
was ··o.. ,viii you. tell me that witbouitany advantage. on earth, with.
onJy a fa'ir chance, ·t hat one boy ·. ·ill ·n ot .g et along, and will yon tell me
w·hether, w'ith all fhe adYsnta.g es 1'rou ea,n pile up, this other boy is DO·t
going to be fau-od io. th.e ·very re . erse condition, and a~ some fot;ore _ti.m ;
II·
·C WD111J '' 'l"ii:i
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be found ualling for legislatiot1 and demanding a fair di.vis.ion of thP.
pro,fi-.ts '..
_
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Ji ' eo~. -s.
1,·e·,11,,, again,
.loo
.· , ·'k· a~·t· t ·h..e •1~.. .s,
.. bon°i;:!'t
. ~ y.- m:1..e
.1. u , E
.·.-v·
. ·.,·n 1~ng
. : ·. ~e·H:
•
·~ ouF. work8hop e,..,e ry -~~fternooo,. and I get a ,d ~l of infor.m ation b~ ·
giving ·1uv atteo.tion t.0 the ne-wsboys. 'T hey generall,y come with twel v·e
1~,a pers each. They start ou.t with tw lv : pa.per •· Tb.ey· giv : 'for those
twelve paper ., as the:Ytell me, 10 cents. Th.ere iJ .· a profit O'f 2 cents on
the t . elve papers if they s -I all oot.
·f orgot to ask ·w b.. ,tbeT the sur~
pln stoo·k on hand was tak en back.. Onee :in awhi1e I ·buy t·be ·whol •·
twelve and give tke lK>y I~ cent-s.. The:o h.e bu made his tran.saet1on ,
and I s - ~ to him, '' Now·, I ·w ant .. ou to take ; b,e se papers.and sell them
and I w.aint _you_to, bring m.e back one.ahalf m·. · .ooe and pay it to me
so tb.a.t ·i t wi'tt be a dead certainty that, yon ha .e a sa1'e for' the whol~
stock at a.profit." I have had boys com.e back &ibd p_J m,e the m.oney,,
and I have had boys that did uot eome back, an.d ne"f "·,,r appeared there
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any more· to sell any papers.
· · EEDED LEGISLATION.
1
Let -th.e.re 'be sonte -~-Heral ·1aw· passed _th· _t ·win :hold oot enooum.g·e·ment to the shipp:ing in't.eM :·.t, C·· Ilital is, cbeap ·now to fb,e capitalistfil
1
Give them a. chance to develop trade·. I ask no so.bsidi:~s,or privil·· ges for any ela R~ Pass ~om~
gen6111d. la.w·b.v w'h ieb yon.can give capital and 1 . 'b or on the sea th,e samflJ
protection yuu do ca.-pital an.d .l abor on t,he land, ,and bring into requisition oue hundred mi.lHonjs O'f capital t-0 open to the ,c oun.tr:y new ·mw-ket~ ,
put e .· erythiug 01.•· to competition; in,·ite ·he who,le ation to compete .;
ancl some of those 1.eo,ple who are willing to inv st ,heir money iu . · o-\··
ru:·u·me.nt bonds. ·. t 3 ,a r 4 per cent. , which i n-ot much of a pro6:t, , ·ill l;~
willing to emb,mce t-be opportunity that y-ou.will offer · hem 'b y ope.,ning
u.1) and developing · ,w ·11 -~·rke · if t -, e · ·. is an, ki d of .·. fair C ' ·o.~
of the nation. who a.re ,d e irons ,o f
11 •.i ng
i't.
1
giT"en; and I cai~ a . sure. you that in o:ne year., out.side of the:opening o.,.~ .
trade, otl' ·ide ,of g1,h1~· emplo.. m ,o .: u,, peopl'e, outside of bringi.n _g 011 ·
from Uni·t ed ,S,t ate •., bon(ls million-. or mone · .· bat will open ·o p mi:ne.s
and buHd up ]abor, there ·i11. anotb·e r· great. sa .ing· tllat wiU be aooomp,l ished. You. will create a power upon the sea that will in the hour· of
i1eed aud trouble IJe fa.1" MUperior to the Navy yon ba~e at piresen.t, I f
1
an 1nc]i1idoal enters 1o'to . mig:b y · confl.i ct in a brauch of bnsi.neu, or
in a11 ,~th in.g i·ou m,a.v ua1ne ·with ao opl}Oneut of gre~ t power,. hi~ first
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
d y tb
. to-·•--st 11"' man., 1s
.
.. d ~ :if.. b~_!'I&~
ue uJ go.1ng w ,oouuun,t _· e power "L..
wise
1·
wi-th. ,:, 1 will not.·meaa-11re a.w ords wi'. t h you until J 'k now .I eau h.old
my own.:'' That :is ·the id.ea.. It is for this nation to ,show a power that
~ll oompel th,e nati,o oe ,o.f the ·w orld to loo-k . at 'it and 88¥ they· will not
1dare strike it because i·t isl p:r,ep ·•red.. Now ·be great question is to pre-.
pare,.to pot onrse1.ves ln tlJ, ·_·t ,c ondition wit.bout .. ·. great cotd~to the Go•v ·emmemt.
I am not apeak1og· th.is with tb,e 1,dea, tha,t th.e re i's goiog to be anJt
,var. I hope.in Godn.o bl.~ wille er again bespiJled 111 .. ar, hu.'t l say
it is ·w ise ·t o be prepared against such .a time, and wise 'to ·oo ·p repared
with a con.d1tinn.ofthi nge th t ,c ostsou peopl ·_.no-th.i-ng.. Take .;ngla·o d.
·t o-day ; all me-~ ·w~,o baVte read.hi- to.r y kn.ow that abe was a.aatiou that
_,_..,. . . pen·oo
- war · p to. a, OO.iwa,l.D
-~" 10
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·_T•O-- d__ ay _'h_~e 1. . t e.
:
o I v,eu..
was mu ch invmost peaceable nation on ea:rth~ With all :her· wondertu.l ·power•. th ·tre
ie .·0i n,ation that ·u se . more inffu,e.nce to p,ret,"'ent .a ny war in Enrnl}e t_h at
would draw her in, than she doesjo Why-is alt that f It,is wise for ua ·ro
see ~at we can protect ourselves against tba -_ -ond,e rful po·w er b
know."n.g be.r · ·- e.ak position and .a t .a small expens.t}to i0urselv-e · protect
DI, against her~ Sb.e h.a s. a 'thoosand millio·n dollars~ wortl1 of ·. hips on
·t he ocean to-day~ It 'i . not so much th,e val:oe. ,o f a thousand millions in
'~e
th
,. on ·_
.,,. _;;:1i1 to. mark· . t- 1s
. h. ·er on·1y roadb-,u.-ti 1·t· 1s
.... 1....
~ .er·:r oau
; . ·, mark~let-.. B
'. to
e.uips,
The b.r ead th.a t feeds h.e r peopl
grea,-t ocean that belongs to Bil ·n ation,
hastoloome throu.gb thatchanDiel. The raw m.ateriala togiv·e ·work ·to her
factories moat, eome tbrougk that road~ 'T'he prodnet to -·eep her thou-·
mmds of artilaus at work and keep,her great footori-ea in open'tion has to
oo:me o·v er ·t he same road.. Itia.a dangeroua poa.it.ion. Sne keeps up to,d ay 480 great ·w ar-ships t,0 overawe other nations 80 that they ,shaIJ ne.,,rer
fee.J that it is safe for them. to .s,t nke. her "trade. Our ey,,es ,are dazzled
here because we see a :t.· w great steams:bip s ot gr,e&t speed. and. great
s-ize an,d great magnitude. ·w ,e see them. al.I described-lo ·the press of
Ne.w Yol"k, but 80 per oont. ,o f th . t ·· · hole pow,e r which ,c arries back and
forth the p~ucts upon w);lic.h her e.xistence must _depend, co:o sists .o f
eh·i.p s that have not . · speed of ov·e r eigb.t or nm,e knots" ~f we bad. a
merchant marine to,,day·, _wh1ch mi_g ht be ealled the "militia o · the sea,"
wbat great,er·power could you ·want than to know that,every W•eeik th~
was a de~ure , nd. arrival of a number of ships m~n ed and.eqnip1ied,
and ·t hat all you wanted\ was, to put the goois on board. tbem a.u d • ·Y
'' go e:trike ·t his commeroo ;" wit ·_ h. y-ou put your _·-lf in tbat position nations will respect yon~
If yon will bold oo:t ,encourageOJent 3,on can ,c reate a ·po,w·e r n·p oa tbe
sea. It costs ~ on nothing, and tllroug·h the littl.e enc,o nmge,me:nt yo1r1
give,, the. result is t 1be: ope·n ing· up of n.e·\\" markets, digging out your
mines, tea-!iog o:p the raw m -~rial tha . ia.only worth 10 per cent., a·nd,
. . ~ empIoyui·_.nt,.to-_ you1·
• giving
,. to
.. ·, g 1'"t· b·y '.I,abo
:/,· a h·un d.:. red•- .·pe,r c'!:n~,
_.- r 1n
po·ttin
people.. .It. is only secu.r in,g you. against a1terrib! · calamity that may
etri'ke you. :a t an,y mo·ment. Tb.e best authoritie s in E'luope to,. day,. watch-•
ing· the ·oooea of tbe higbes t tatesmen i.n. those I ·nds, tell you of the
n.u mbers orf millions ,o f ·m en that ate paid for .. oin:: no-thing bnt dra -. og
There is only a :m:i litary truce. Yoo do
swords -· nd carrying mnske _·_
not know ·w hen the da:y of ac.t inn will come,, and ·. ·. hen it ,d oes come there
m.ay be a great European ._ .ar and y·ou :may see tb.e .n,a,d.es, of' England
the navies, o,f F.r:a.nce,. and the na .·ies of G,e rmany knocking one ·~nothers
shipa ·t o pi.ooes. ·-on m y see th,em outaid.e ,o f Sandy :Hook here 011,, the
gre&t th.o roughfare of tb.e ooe _n ·w here your mereh3nd ise i,s, going.
·.- .. e-·d. 1n 1tore1gn
'\ - ,c· arn,
. -- . .1 -.. ·t 1s
· -. I us-· p1.'UUOC
.. h·. -0-·,-1e-· urp
,-, · · ·-w
•·] your
· · ·t b··a,
·-. -·· now
· · 1ee
Y on
ships; ,yoo see that yoar flag d.oe ·•_n.ot float at- its]n1a . t -b.ead; :rou see
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128
HELA.TIOMS :B E1T WBBN LABOR A.llD CAPITAL..
·t hat yon hav,e. no right to ,c ry out 'for protection for y,o or property, be~
ea.nee
~·L:::,. ·.' lD
, ·
- --- y·ou do n.o t own 't-he- ship's•.
- , and-- "~on
--- .m-a·_;y~ ~ ,t·.h: e, ·v·.-·e-·:ry, BJUl)S
wbich your 1
snrplus 'prodo,et is carried,., by tb.e ·whim of European
powera,_:to mo,~'W mndered uselees to _yo,n by ,a great war.. Th,e n ·
should like to know w·ho 11 going to eu1fer. Tb,e n w:b at will become of
:rour imme , se crops of oornaloog th-e l·i ne-o f'yonrroads. ! They will perish . .
T·ben 'What,wi11 become, of your cotton.. It may go ,d.own to tbe. botto-n1.
of the sea.. And yet, 'OD d,e pen.d upon .a .1B al.e for these .· Drplaa prodnct .,
in the, markets o:f' the world for tbe whole tlnancial condition of' your
ooontry to~ay. Destr-oy thi , break it up for ~ne ;rear, :and . hat will
ap,pe:u,'I lieu are talking about" su·b.sidy,." and ta.Jki g abo., t '-' bonn·t yl',-and talking·abont tlliis foolis , thing and the other,and t .,· y do not
take into, e-ousid,era,tion w·b ,a t that wonderful nation Eng)an,d bag done,.
s :he has not cotton nor eo.ro, bo't she bas,coal and iron., The policy that
,s he h.aa, plll"Saed with coal and iron is the policy for us to sto,d y ,
11~
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I have ,ofte·n heard the suggestion. thrown out t'bat t'he ·men there a.n,
,iJS, well ojf aa. ours ,are herei! · Wb.at is ·m eant by that t ls, it .m eant that
the foreign 'WOJ1kro1an. ts, as well oif in hm own country· as b.eret .If
the English. work1oan had not a Government a t h·is head t1:tat stopped
1
1
a·t noth·"ug, that re: pooted no, ·n .g hts,, that bad. no, regard for, ~th or
anythin,g else w'here Eµglan,d's. m.terest was at s,t ake, the worldn_
gmau
of En,g land would 'be ,a poor man,, ·fo.r th,e, last statistics sbo·w that, E.ng•
)and go ·eroed. a populati.o:n ,o f ,362',000,000 'll60Ple., She went to w,o rk
~ , d,oo,n,quered .a na too.k a hol d on ool.o mes that sh,e might get a , mar et
for her p,rodnets, till ,s he main.ta1os a, population of .36,2,000,000 ,; and yet
England, W,ales, and Sootlan., l together· bav,e, only 21,000,0(N). _ '~ ill
.n ot pnt Ir-eland in.. ,G od. kD.o ws t·b ere _ie, no_~ny go,v emed wo•r se tll~n
it-·haa bee-IL Ta,k e out the 27,000,000, and, wit1h the exception of the
colonies io A.meriea, where tbe. Oa:n adas have profited by th,e exam.p ie
we h,ave set,. 't h,e bulk of tha-t whole population is ,ground @ow11. by h.e r
law 't.O· a oon.d ition, of things where e erything· they had has _been
screwed ou1t o.f them in order to keep the 21,l!f)0,,1~ population.of ,Great
B,ri'tai'n i'n its present oo,n ditioo,. Tbree, huo.d red and sixty·- tw,o millio,n s
of peop,le1are -legislated for· in. the interest of !-li',000,000,. All these people are governed in tbe interest of Grea~ B'r ita·in. Them. is free trade
with all these ns~on~1 a d vast lines of' -• ~•1?)•hips. a1:9 snbsi.~ ized to·
make,the oommooication between Great Bntain and ·the: oolon1e1 eu.eh
as no O't ber nation oould oonfer-snbsidies given to England',&ships run ..
ning to her o;wn colonies, so tbat her shi:ps may carry freight ch~per
'. . 't h~.a,n
. ~ ot·her
P-!iLJl'rV
.pB'l!iilli, to
''·. '· .
c·OD.''":rol ·t1·hat muket.
th an
va,;;;;, ot
. ··. :
any
...· _ .· n·• a,-4,.;o.n. ann
~
- • , , J' l~t
. . ·t.h
Well mas, th,e manufacturers of En_g l . ·n d submit to a tax to, sn·bs~dize
sbl!pB to foree.their goods, beyond tbe possibility ot" 00111petition, ,almost
equal to a prohih,itocy law, into those nations which 8 Le gov1e ms
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PB0 TECTION TO LABOR.
1
B,y .:Mr. 0 .A LL,:
Q,. I do notwis'h toi"D t imate.aoy,opin1onabo11.t what Jou havesa1d, but
yon b,ave rµade 1eom.,e points that there may be som.,e inquiry in regard.
to~ l ondentand you to maintain tb.e opinio,n tb_at there can be no ade1
1
oo,m:pensatio-n to the American.arti·san or l_abo-rer without as_"'stem
of p-rotootion; that 'is to ,say, you cannot pay him good wages withou •
a tari:trt- A.. Tba,t iis my bel1e£
Q. What is t ··,e precise effect wh.ich you oou_. ider the ~rifr to, ha.,,.e,
upon the American Jabo,r er; iii it, to, give, more sbUity to the ·manuiaet-urer or the e,m,pl0;yer to pay, by gettin,g a higher price ·for his goods,!A. Ye,;.,
quate
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124
BBLATIONS B,ETWEEN_ LABOB AND· CAPITAL.
'
Q.. Bow· are.:yon enabled to pay 'b etter wages to your laborer with a
ta~ tllan wi'thou~ it !-A. Beeaue,00· per •cent of the goods I make HI
labor; I' pay that Jabor' 60 per cent..·more tllan is paid ·to ·t be same class
.a broad; witbo·a t a tarl:f rth,e foreign maker·oould nnd.erselJ me an.d there
wonl,d. not ·oo a ·w otkshop i·n the land, u ,d I sbonld not be iu the ·busi1
ness at all,
.
Q. Do you..mean to say· that yon could not ·m ake ,:oods at all T-~. l
eould not ·mak,e tbem at, all an.d pa.y the. prese·u t prices of labor.~ When
00 per cent. ,o f :a n .a rticle i ,c omposed o-f oue commodit3- and you. ·w ant
me to eompe·t-e in that article w:bere I __ ave t,o PB:··.· :for tha·t 60 to 70 per·
cent,. n1ore tba:n anybody else, how can I d,o itT· That is the wbole
secret.
Q. Yon mean to s~y tba;t you caoaot make. goods at tb•e same price
tl1ey· ·m ake them abroa ,. 1-A. I eannot.
Q~ Th.e·o the etfeet ,of a tariff iis to enable yon to get a better price for
goods t'han they ge abroad !-A. The general idea is t,h.at prot,ee.ti,on is
i11 tbe iot,erest of ·t he workingman, and that t.he manufacturer, as a gea.;,;.- I 1-,..............
. . ~.
eT,&.,. Ui t b"'·
:tug, onl y rooe.1"' ves.;a&Ir compensation on b- 1s capita
, ~ose t'b-emm.
11te l e g'.Oes beyond that, nnl,e ss there are pate.n t ri.g.h ts ,or,. omethiug ,else
oomi'ng in, e~mpetiti.on 1S,p rings ·o p, and there is uo shai:peroompetition in
the.world than there is be.t ween the Ameriea·n manufacturers 'tb,emselves~
Q. T'h en the idea 1.s that that protection ·will ,e nable 'the .A m.e n.can
man.ufacturer to ge't a bigbe.r price for his goods than he c~ultl ,vitbA Tbe· pro+n-+-=on
~ to iga•
v '0 t '
--~I.II. I ·, ·w
·. -.1"'l
, 1I. e·n°b
_, - R ' 'I;,] b- Im
:~·" an
< . ~- enl,,n.nce
:_" ; llwu ·.. d pr~1ce
' ·<.: 1·n
proportion to the amoun·t that. 'he,·p ays :for the labo·r· to produce th•e, a1~t1e;le.
Q"' And th.ereb~· be is e.n bled to pay be'tte.r wages -A. He is eua-bled to pay .a better p,r ice fo,r 'l abor.
Q.. · understood yon to say this mo .ni•g 'that uud.e r the.,general economies of EncJand her man.t tfacturers w,e re 1n a very prosperous. condition and ma.Ue :a good. d.eal of money-more than w~as. mad,e elsewbere ;
tha,t mo ne:y· ·. ·~a s low there, and tbey· made iron so m.u eb. ,cbea·p er tbali
a11y where else ·because they eonld g,e.t ca.p i ~ l cheaply an(I. ,easily.. I '.
.o t the.English.man, under a, s.·ste ·. of free ·t rad.~, abl,e to pay·his,wor .. -·
nia.o better wages,, even, tha;n w•e .are with ,· protee~ive dntyf-A,. ~ o,
sir ; n.ow yon are referri'og to ·the ,cheapness of c ·pital.
Q~ I am 1-e:f. rriDg to ·be ,xen.e ral condition of th - economi •·s of busi
nese, 1n En°lamtl,Iwhich make 1t the ge.neral nu1uo.facturiug centel' of th~·
wor·l d~-A. If you were ·t o take fro·m Engl •nd the marke,t w·bhih . ·b e cou.-rols by being t·h.e ruler of those oolouies .ao.d ,co-mpelling 2-00,00(J,,000; •o f
11e0iple in India to work for ·b : r at the rate of ,$ 3 a mon·t h in.·the i:n teres,t
,o f the Eng'li ·hmau~ th .·1· Jou would take from her a lar,g : .Portion o.f ·h er
present .m.a nufacturing intere.,t. She Jeg11slate1s tor that interest.. Take
that away from h · r, take1aw~y tbai tM>rti.on of sbip,p iog tbat 1Sh.e · 'D d,~,
t.bere, and 3rou taik e from her a large portion of the position ,. :be; ooou
pies . If you. we:ve able. to con : ne En.gland to h.er own resourees .a nd
tb.e govemm,e nt of her o:w.n people proper, ancl ·m&ke her treat all ~er
1:..eople alike,. as w,e do here, s ··e · oold not be. what s.he is to~y. S~e
makes slaves O'f ;~ v-en eights of her population ·i n th io'tere t of h,e
0th.er ,eighth.
1Q . 1Still,. as a. fact I understand yo,n to 83)Y that ·& om so .. cause· h: ·r
:a bility to pay a lligh rate1of wa,ges is 11-1qn,estio~ab·~.e !-A. No, sir; the
t"·e ra.g e· wag,e s he pays, at least in. ship-ya:rd , is 7'0 ~r 00 t~ less th~
I pay beTe :; a.nd I thi1 k it is safe ·t o s~y that ~ to 00 per cent. is, th.e
difference. in all ot:h er business, Therefore she ,does no·t do .1t.
~ I. am no·t asking about the fact, b,1lt about her ability,;,;
. uoder1
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125
R'E LATION B ,BJt,r WEBN LA · Q,R Al4'D C'A.PlTA'L,.
stand you to wan·t a system of protecti on here in order t.o increase -th.e
ability·to pay· good wa,es, and I ask yon whether., und:e r the :p,resent
prosperoo ·. ,c ondi:tioo of Eng., 's b trade ao.d manufactures, she is no-t
able -t o pay· any :r ate of wages that might be ·.· ithin the limits of
4
No,, sir-.
'-A.
Q. Why·t-A. Under the pfflBent conditio n of' thi'ngs, I thin'k if · -ou
profi.-t
we·r e to ad,·ance the wages in Great Bti,tain 2ff o·r SO per cen.t. above
what they aue. t.o;oday .. ou ·w onld Ji.n d th ·,f"a great ma-n y of h er factorie s
8.he woul.d be s.h ot oo·t from m:a.ny market .•
w·o uld close. 1
Q. I do not ·u.nde .stand, then, wh,y 1·- 1s, yon ln,s ist ~pon it thatthe re
,( ~n be no oompeti·t io,n betwe . n this country anti 'b er if that ,small ma11Hgin of 2-0 per cent. is ta:k en otf·_ Ai I cannot undent ··nd really what
:you w'a nt to ge · ou·t..
Q. I do not ·want to get ou.t anything,,. only wish.tokn-ow y-our idea . A" Hy· idea msimpl _-· this,, aa far .as, prot.e c~: o-n is oonc.erned, that the
mom.e·n:t any nation cJJaa~ her laws and in t-ito-tions SO· 88 t,o bring
her laborer to the same level that the wor·~°='~ oocnpies here, a·o d to
pay_bim as we ~Y htm liere, then I do no·t think we sha11. n.e ed an_y pro .
~
tection again.st that na.tion,,
Q. The.o I lmderst a· _,d you to · ink that we art1 pretty· nearly on an
av·erage with Great Britain in o,ur .bility to mannfaem:re cheap,l,y 1-A..
No., sir., by o.o means.
Q. What strnek me w .11, that J'OD. wantedl .a sys,tem of p:rotection, io
reg.ard to whic,h I have no opin-i.on now to expreu, in onler to ,e nable
manufa cturers , ·:n d othem io pay a high rat;e. or .a reasonable rate of'
was 1!11
wages here, and then_ I w~t.ed t.o_ know, i.lf th! _ability ·t:o
tbat was necessa ry,, why tne English people did :not do it · A.. I will
now pu·t -rb.,e question in the:mo .rt practical way · can.. Take two,farmI-...
Le·Jv -~ bo
ag the Da:m e aa d
l'l ·,thin
.·· •·.4-l,,.ll
-..-:--....,; - -~ iPnoa'
'. _ t·-'tor
·1ue.an
"'·~·..s'-, th
~~
___
,.,,.,. . ·-. l a- '.d-. a'
~
. - e·. mnil
raising crops to go into the same. m.arket If one man pays 78' per cent.
mooo for laoor on his itrm than h1 .· aeighbo·r , how long can be compete
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wi.th him. in the market ,
Q~ I only· wante ·. to know if t · .e two ma(lc ·1be iSame pront,. wh_y one
could no·t p$Jtbe , :aime wa,ges as ·t he otber·~: -.. \ . ~,nppose-the conditio n
of la:w, the condition o,f socie~y was sucll t !lat tb.ere was a lino •d rawa
between the two farmie· Q.. That is..jost what want.to,kno-w, ho," · the condi.tion of society is
_going to ailect it,-A1 If you will get Great Eritain to e-noonrage all :h er
workin·_. people at houte and ·i n h,e r oolonies, .and Ie,gislate in the interest of labor, and pay them the sa1ne as we do,. we should want no
protecti on..
-~ ...4.PPENDIOBS' .TO MB. llU:AC11"·s TEBTIM.01,T..
TUB L&·.
OF FBA.NC'E t:-PO~ Sl.l IPPING.,
1
[ It, will be nmeed that Fmuce ·f or uxt-eeo . : ,ea•·s print t , •· t lac J!WBS@ _or ·t hi~ ,& d=h 'Id
· ,·~ tile ~Uc:, or '' free •~P!" ~• '·' free raw wa _ l l•rtal,'' aJdl f€nmAi tbe poliey to be
a faUmeia lthough her la.bo:r u ch -- per than c1U:1M.. l
trill, Htr "Jtapt,';1 Ea-_
ea.~ .. No . 8 (1881)~ _ (~--4Jl.e!l!l•~-) .P•t"'.tler c-·, r,rir,tptt:fJd -~1·•,.-,:,u,,rt,
d to· bo.tl 1o. . ., of
N,Stf·'" Pmil r,1.GfiN 19 tu '~~ lleN?aft_file 'IRtl ri,.c· bi;,·.
1
Par,00J1t.Mt by eoa11a.d oJ H,r .JlajatJ1t 1881..
f Trnuala .- ],
.
....
The Senate ;-, d the ·Cllam'her. of Deputies l:tav,, &lil~,pt,v-t'l~
_·. -.11::h li,c. , ,r omd ·. ···tes · he. 1~,~ . " ·l1~r!1 _1b_n ·1·,;":-:·t f. 1l!:0Wt1·:. .
Tb.e,Prerdd&~t of the_&ep
A.JrncLB, l. 'T he ngh·t of free ·pil<J"tage J8 grantttl to ~•JI -~ •1 . 1 1u• \~•~•J- not, meaaa:rin,g ,o ver· 80 tone, ,and[ to st-eamers, wboeu ·m easunme nt does 1111• •·t, 11 ..:. c1.~ul lUU to~ · ,hen.
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12i
B.KLA.TIO.i. S BETW.E EY .LABOB AND C·J .PITAL
ev~ they run rre.guJa:rt · bet .. oen port and poft, ·-nd habit-uall.y freqn.e.11.t ·t he entranom
u, 11.vera.
B'n erthelesa, a·t th.e request of the chamhem of ,commen=e,, and after .an in11~ in
t;h,e u , al form has been made, p· ,1Jli9 ad.d uniatr.ati.ft, ~
-a _iom, ab.all dt,-t,emiine
. _-,· ·. lbe
modilcatio:u, ot·the ,e xisting· rult . hieh may ibe oonaidered. neeeaary in ihe intereat
1
of naviaatien.
- ABT. 2. or fol'mp .._going v;e.aeela la.e · lei~ of i ~ e D ~rlibed bJ a · "ele1125 of
the commerci.aJ code for • ·&Mb. ea~p loaded in Fnince ,ahaU not be,o·h ligator,- onlM8
.m Gn tbao ab: moo.t h ·h ave e]apee.4.1-iuea the, l .·t butpee. 1.ou,. ·uDleae ·t he ·N88ls Bhall
llave 8118ta·i ned damage. _ _
.ABTM 3. . ·-or.the olleial doeu~nta or pr-aolt,., N"Nn ab.~wing· ih · elump o~ ewaen
,o f the, ebip, either t-0tal or partial, a :l ized ,c harge sball be ·m id.e for ng11tratton el 3
franc.& Article 5... ··. o 2, o£the law of the, 2et·h Febl'DUJ', I . . ·9, ia repealed • · far as it
i8 contral'y to ·t he p·r eeeot p•rov1sien~.
A.BT~ 4. 'T o ,eompeo&ate elti.p..1bnildem for t'he eharges.fix.ed l)y tbe cu ta - -heu1e,wuf
tbe ·foille•wing alloWDDees ehaH. he made to them :
·
1
P:! ~O::!uRv'!:~~~t!~D=
=~~:a
f:ea~eamreroent.
For wooden. vesaels of 1688 than 200 roust 10 franm .
Foreom,os·te v·e6601a, ,40 franc .
. _
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Fer en.,;• nea.p.11ace~ on ho_ard teame~ a,nd for a1WJ_liaFJ app -ratue, .sue~ as ateam,-
pn~pe, d°ttD_k, y-eogm. · , wwc~ :t veotd __ t,om . or od by
, a 1nery1 , lao tbeir' bo:1 len
and -pl~ 12,fraDC!J pe~ 1~ _k ilo~a
_. .
. .,._
..
.
_ _ _~ .
.Sh,pe, plank d. with timber:, haYiDg beam · and nba.of D'0.11 or steel,. .a re to, be OOD.814-..
ered M eompoa·te ·v ~ .
ART. ,5. Ev,eey ,clla~ e in · ship by whicb an inc~ . · :i me - mement ia 1 - ined
• · give rigbt · ·o•a ooun.t y, based on tbe• above t - Hi, ceorcbng to ·t he increue of
toDD&ge gain __ .
Tbe bount7 eball beg, · ·nted .f or ,d l'iviog-enginea and auxH ~ary app · ·Ins plaeed on
boanl ~ r oamjpleti,o n 0·1· the shi.p,. _
·
.
.
.
.
O·n change, ,o f boil ra the o . · er · b 1.l ·he al lowed . cempen ti.o n. allowanee of ,8,
franca per -100 kilograma on new boilen, weighed without the t ·nbe8, i.f fJf French.
1
mak,e .
ABT. ,&. Tbe ale · -auces ~nted ·b mic1.e s4 .a nd 5 shall be pai.4.,on delivery ef the
French na~ater, by tb . ·. . _ ·l '!e1" o·f customs a·t t'be nearest ,p l··· . ·.•· of eonstra·c tieo,j .. _
.ART. 7.. The &y.etem ,9.f a.d.muMJ.on. dn:t y ire , fi ei \Jy ,a·rt1ol · 1 of tbe law of the 19th
11.a;y, 1866, an4 by anicle 2 of th · law of th .· I.7t h 11 · rch, 18?9.,.l • abolish ·-.
AR . 8. · hip-builders.,. hall t"eCeive al.lo . ·nces er v .. .· Ison tlie e1oo ·S , ·· the ·,1me
w·h en the ·pre&e'Dt la ehall come into :force, as. atipnl,!l.t - in 4rti le 4,. after ,d ednc_~g
the a ·. ount of Cllstoma _duee. fi:x,ed h,y the ·CODvenl,~,o nal, ·t arur qn..foreign. im_p orta 'W.l lic&
may have 'b . D entered free of duty for · bip-hnild'ing :p nrp .·s.
ART~.9..
, eo11tpen1 • ,t ·on for ehargee. :iim.poaed on the m rcantile n vy for th"' ree.rnit
ment a·u d
ice of' tbe miU·~ ·.na .r . , , . - viption bo-unv &hall .·be granted:,. ~ming
ten 7ea·n from. ihe da,t e of pubHca·t ,1011 of th·1s law. m, all .F rench v _· .~ Js.,,&ailing· er,
aer
I I •...
Bt .am11
Thie ben.n.ty· is a·p p lie~blei only to, foreign goin v . Miel .
.
It 11.:h ed at 1 frane 59' eentimea . ire,g ieter tou and per· 11.000 miles"' nn C.or v ·N 8e)8
o,f Fren0h oon~truc~tion freab. ,o ff the ato~ks .:wd deere~aae_a, nnu~l~ by 0. ffi. frau,cs fo,r
wooden veeae.Je, 0.•015 fl',a n for oo.01posd,e.
. ·Jet ,~:t05, fr.anes for 1ren VeMe1a.
For forei,gn ..bn:Ht v·esae · · the ·o oilll y i , r,educ d 'bl) o e•h lt of t ' e al,ev·e ,ae,ngned
1
amo , nt. V _ _·ls taking out Fre , ch Tegis;t·ers before 'the ptomnlgation of t,he p,rreaent 1a are
aas-i ·ii ted for on n y purpo: . · to vessels of I rencb oon Ullc.tion~ T -.e boaot.• i.tJ increa
b~ . .· S p r cent. for steame g b tult aeoord"ug to pl ns pre~
·oualy approved. of b . the ·-·_·rine De.p arlm1ent..
_
The nnm ber of Jl!ile& r:un i~ ,c aleu I t ed aecord1 g: to th - ~i!tan~ from tht' point of
departnre to the poin.t of .a ~val, :me _ ored on a dj rect ma·nt1 me bne.
l , e , of wa:r mere~ .t ship ea.n be mqu&dtioned by the .·ta ..•
Veaels eniaged in the ~.fom1g:n aa.d om._ ~sleries ("' •. ~ grande .·, 1~ ·1 etite plche"),
those belo,ng.n1g to 1s uba1d1~ed bne .aocl Y.~~hte iW. ., . cepteo ffOII! :reee1vmg the boanv.
ART. 10. Every master of a v -~ ·1 roo 1. 111,_ -one of ·the bounties ·fixed tiy article 9of
the present law· , hall - - oblig ~ to, carry, fr - of o' arge, mail · pu.t nnder hi& ebarge
by ·t he poeH:l loo au.tborlties, or to be deUveffld t-o that adminietratien, ae preeeribed
·i n 1.he co u I· ·r decree. of tbe 19t h. .· nnin.al; y . _r .L
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RELATIONS- BETWEE'N LA.BOB AND CAPITAL.
12'T
F:BE:SCB MAIL COlft'BACT&~ IF
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-114;GIN ■
!!tQcii - WI~
•
816.tm ,.
"','000.
7:9t\651.
472,,:111 ,511
00 000 ill
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ENGLISH CON RA:C~,S~
FoD.owiog are e.xt_i-ac.ts fro:m some of tb.e law - pa.ssed by ,- he B·ritish
Govero,, en,t to establish i'8 ·m erchan.t marine, as ·r eferred to above. The
lawa, ·were varied a~.eord.in·_ - to t·ke. conditions ,o f t'lte routes. 'Whe.r.e the
eom.petition w ,3 8 _g reat tbe aid was proportionately l~ge.. 'T he q_uota~
tio,n s _g iven from the la\vs a.re b-u t c·h aractel'istic samp)es o,f hlaft)R· ·t hat
were patl ed.
The ,o riental Ste.amshi.p Company· (English) o · ned thirt;y-se,ren s.hips
an,d .h ad a ,~ubtdd3- am.o unting, to 82',200,,00(), a year, or 1.2 per cent. on
t'b eir whole ,c apital, but this w,as, no,t sufficien.t ·oo meet the Frenc·b o_p
pos tion. Tbe ,oom:pany de.cided to witodraw tb,e ir tleet aud surrender
'the trad,e to, Frauce,. Tbe En,g lish GoYernwent ,at once. ordered a eom~
mis iou to in ,est1 - a:te t;h e a · jr-s of tbe com:p an~ . T.h i _commiss"on reported · ba·t to wak,e the company's business pay a ,g uarantee must be
give:n to pt .Y tbem .S per ce1.1t. d.u riug the F renc'h op,posi't10,n. The great
lioe ,vas saf',e d and the compauy's sh'ips kept in oommission., This was,
a, notice o 'he ,c api., _·list:s of the world tha1_ tbe English tr-easu.ry was
at the back of her ocean carrying,.
Let u . _· rate the O' · :cial d,ocumenta iu support (>f th.1s. The one, for
exa·m p]e, with the ,e11insular' antl _,O rien'tal Compan... --' · &de with the·m
in 185.3 for au annual subsidy of' 12,500,000 ·w·a s to expi~ January 1,
186·7~ Febroary 27, 1866, a new, contmc·t , 'Was 01ad.e1 u,- der the con..
tract the compan),. agmed 'to ,-.-.obmit its 1,lans 'to 'the Government ,0 0,mmls •~og.e.~, and to ,c onstru~t the h~te. · ·_ ,·ya _an.d other_parts of its abipa
as .m1gli1t be ueoossaiy t.o the carr\'JDg and firing of a _Ilea· y· ar.mameo,t .
That made the , ..es .,e.l81mmedia-tely --_-.. •·1abl0 fornavalpurposes,aodfor
defen·- -_ -, and th ·y '1 ere at the Gove,r11ment',s d·i posal iu case of n,eed,,
a , d .-em osell in the Orimeau ·w ar, in a way that opened the e3:·e· _of th~
French to the g.r ea' import.an0€ o-f tb · merchant. marine manned and
·eqnlpped, aud at the Gov,erumenit's diis posal. This m,er,c,b aut ma:rine,
.dlad.e -a ·p art of th -,' O'\ilernment as i"t actuany v.r,3,s b,y the ter.m - o-f co,n ..
tmct added a, wonderful treugth to its na.val forue ease.of ,ex.tremity.
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l.'28
REL&.TION8 BETW.E E . LABOR AND CAPITAL1
With the same compan.y a .n.e·w eontrac was 1oade .in 18,70m Iu '' ,_ rticles, of a,greem.e nt made tl1iis 6th d~y of ugust, -S.70, between ·the,
Bight H .o n. Spencer Oompto·n Oavendish" commonly.' call,e d ·t he Xarq·n is
of Hartington,,, her Majesty's Pos.tmaater-Geoe a·1, and the Pe11insltlall:
an.d Oriental Steam. Nari_g ation Company," I find that for carrying_·t he
mails, a·t a 1S,peced not ,exceeding 10 knots .a.n. hoar u the :Postmaster-Gen1e ral doth h1e reby OO''fl ·-na.nt that there shall 'be paid to tbe ,c ompaoy (ont
of such aids orsup_p lie - as ma;·lltlm. time to time b ~-p,r o,ided and appropriated by ~ ,a.r.liaw~-n t for· that purpose)i the sum of £400,000 [82,250,000
11- ........ ..-l :_
o ,,nn
-- :n ·■ ·n ,,. An
'· d·- 1"' n· o,oo
· . ~OD .. G. ·t h-e co
..... nt of
'•. .. 4 1S
'_d
·:.: •m1.~
a- nnnl
·..
pe-:r ~
. · llt,.1.CM.i
·.· 1186
. ' e--c
_ _c_J __ led
'· a,11 cla·i ms of 'the company in respect to the 8Ub. idy therein mentio0ied
~ving been full3 satisfied by· the- pay.m ent of ,a sub · 1dy afteJ· the. rate
of ,£500.,,000 [82.,500,tNJOJ p . r ,an.nnm .."
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A D·I VIDE,N.D . UARA..NT ED~
lu an official. report,. dated JnlJr 20, 18'.iO, I find thi .. sig·n ificau·1· pas...
sage~
B:f th_
ter~,,u~ of the oont,r act .,~ n~lnde · . w~ tb the Peninsular ~'1:1-d Orien.'t al ~t&am.
avi_gat-1on C-nmpany on the 19th o · November1 1867 . ·t he au.h 1dy
be pa·- d the
,c.,<t1n;paoy 'is ee.t dow.n as £400;,~ L82,.000-000J a year, w~tb a ,s tipulation -o n 't he ooe
hand. that when.e,ve-r ·t he annual iooome of the conipany from -U !H)llrees does not .ad
m1t of' th.e paytUen·t of di videDdl of S per cent . on the ,e apit ~I @1Ppl oyed the wb ·dy
,1man be inorea&ed by so muoh-~subjee·t to a Umit of £100,000 [$-500,000 -as is 'ret]U~re~l
to, make op sneh a dividend; nd, o:n ·t e, otll,e.r, t.bet whe:n.ever be incom _ is si O •eie.nt to-aUo\v a dividend e · cwding : per ceo.t .. to be.deck,red th eoro.pan_
y ·ball ·p ay
f',o the, Postmaster'4Jeneral one.-fonrth of the e.xoees .
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Here is not on.l y a subs·dy but a Go·,. . -rnment guarantee of an 8 per
,oent' dividend to the ,co.mpan_
J ,'·:. st.oo ho- d,ers. Tb.~ com.p~ ny estimated
that ,u the recei'pts from the _p as .ng~rs aud cargo m, at,. for .a lon.g time
to ,come, be great'I-_. below the . xpenditum ab~olut.ely nece · _ary for tbe
maintenance of ·t he sen .i e .· " -. gain t the yet, 1uore bi,ghly · li.°bsidized
F .r e.n ch Jine; and the .--~o,rernm ~u . promptJ. .,· raised the annual s - bsidy·
i...
i•:k t o
. ··. ~
,.e,A ::,-,.
.·.,.·. IIJ!I
et-2_ t 200
o. eon ld · he Am
Ff-an
· Pli1li~
~ .c,.· .J\11.m
...n,•11.
IU....
DU
,000
_
' 000)
. . . .·
_ ·. ·r &'-"<
__
'°"" ll
Line eompe'te or increase it& fleet again · t thi -Hue, , vbich wa~ gllHraoteed
8 per oo t. b .· t:b e Eu_g lish Government, while our Government com ..
peHed the Pac.in,-;, Mail to carry t.be mail ag ·ins 'its will tor h · JlOs,tage,
uod er the following statute :
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[Unit.ell State& Reviled S ·. tote
· . tlon 39iti. ']
The m,ast,er of · ny· veeael o the United St tea, hound ·f rom · -n.. - ,p ort tlii.ere~u ·ito, a y
·f oreign po,rt, 8! &om an,y fore.ig,o ·po·r t to, any port in the u·n!ted Stat;es_~~
-~orre
clear.1uu1e.,, JleOO·l Ve 0~
and secure ly COD e~ _ 11 sneh mail~ U ' he P:os~O , ice D~
partmen. or ~ any .dlpln~a,tio . or COD8,n l;u" agent abroad■ sball offer; and . he ~ l
promptly deUve:r t-h e eaf.11& at the port of aestination, to the pm:pe-r olicer, fer· ·wh1c ·
he ebtl receive ftoo, om·t.s· for every l,e tter so deU.ver-ed; ,a ud upon the entry of every·
BUCh veasel retominf from any_for~iga port the mast.er the_roof shall make., ,o ath that
~e baa promp_'tly deli ve·roo..
t~ m"il plac _. ou board .sa,u1. · e · ·_l before ~learanee
fram. the Un1·t ed. Sta·t ea;: a·n d if he fail tu make eneh oath tbe vessel eball oi, be en....
titled to the ·p rivileges of a veuel of the Uoited State.a~
hoam
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The ,ease of tbe ,E ,ngl.1sh Governmentls. contract witb the Roy,al 'M ail
:Steam Packet Com:pa,ny· 't o, Brazil, da~ _,~·on.e ~'6, .186ts, 1s s,t ill more
stziking. That contract gnanmteed subsidies.I1Suffi.ei.e ot to yield 8 per
cent., d'ivid,o nd o · a capital of £900,.10 00 (14,500,.0 00).. An e·· tension of
the period of the •COD't ract wa.s, ,as,k,ed for ·in consequence of se ions 'loss
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
129
RELATIO •.S BETWEEN LABOR AND CA.PIT.AL..
to the company by hurric-a·n.e, .i n order to enable it to get on ·its le.g s
ag:a in. In view of t'be F1'"ench •COw.p e·t ition, 'the Goverum,e o.t ~Uy
_granted it. - Tl!e: fact was :fran:kly admitted l>y tbe, compan,y·'s, secret.ary
.i u :1867 that" d.o ring the Ameriea.n war,. and before tl1e competition. ,o f
the .h ighly·,. ubsidized F.rench company,, th.is ,co,mpany eamed sufficient
to yield a sa:t-is.faetory di ideud to 1t:s. s.bar bolden, ·b o:t tbe ease has
be~n very· di:treren.t dnri.og tbe las.t 'lw,o y~arsl'
I call 'our attention to -a. featu.re in -the, 803 al. Mail Steam Pac.k et
Co,·m panJ's co.otract,. herewith submitted, ordered b•y the. House of 00,m .
~ous in May, J.85.2, . n,d executed by·the CommL1si.ooers of Admiralty. Jt.
is for a term ,o f ele·v,e u year,s , aod ,e alls for a payment to th.e com.pan,y by
th.e Gu,rer -ment of a, sub . ·dy· of · 1,,3,701000 t:>e,r annum.. B.y· the terma
the compainy was comp ·. lied when ealled. on to furnish s.teamera,'to tra,.. el
tie : een certain de;gre.es.•Of latitude, t:he 1>ay for ev .' ry mile ,so traiveled
to be l :~l.50 _p er mile besides the· ~ ubsid · At tbi ~ rate if a vessel
s.teamed 8½ knots a~ bo~·r · ,a.be wc_,uld earn $500 a da,y ., exclu: iv,e of sllb.tt,"tly or m,ercantil.e b•p siaes.s. This, contract was eqiual to 40 per ceut...
J>e1· auuu,m on th.e eapita1 invested.. A.nd when a serious ilisast,e r be-felt
tile com.-pan.y as t:he result of a b.urri.cane,. the contract was, e· te.nded
two J~ears; also allowing , ,225,000 for insurance and vorking expense&
(S .-. contract" w ·e st India and Brazil M:aU
dated Jone 2ti,. 1.868.)
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Pl!tr.."!QNSULAB AND OIU2-
AL STEA'M : .._A VIGATJON COMPANY',.
qf' t-le hon·orab.le th .·· ~.,.., of ,Cammon,, ,dated 3 .Febrwu, . 1879, for
,tx,p,t/ ., ~/' OO"Qtraet doted :tlt·t 1th ilt1,.g of F-ebirt1arg·, 1819; ~tend' iRto iNtA :t he Pertin,•lar
,a r,d Oriental Stea·• l{at,igaffma CmR._pa11.1., Jo.r tA,e eonr.eya ,e , of· tll•,c, m,a-Ht· l>etlt'eell itu·
oo,q n:t-ry· ,dJlld I1t.tlta ,a ~a CAi.1t4, -ioge.tkr ·urn A oop,y o/ a ~ , y ·m i,u, tc dated tie 12tA day
•OJ Feinuzry, 1819 Urerma.''
.Rrtu·r·n lo· an
~
TIHt&SURY. CBAMBKRS, 13, FEB-R OARY,
PENINIULA'R A.ND· O:RIB:NTAL, ,8 TEAX
1879.. H-
S1u. WIN-·I DDET, ON.
B,
_·a.:VJGATI.0'N' COMP.A.lff .. -CONTR - CT O
R ARY?
?r ' FD.
lij:79•
.EAST IN.D IA AND CHIRA. !IAJI.B~
•NT. uo.der Seal made .aad ent«ed :i nto tnie Seveortk day of Feb..
roarry 1819 'h t e n the Ri gh.t ·a onoorab' e. ,J ohn J amea Bobe:~ : · annen ( c~mmonly
·~aHerl Lord John Mann n) H,e·r Ma.i1est.y's Post·m rt-er Gene~ for the time hein_
g on
beb~lf of· , er· · .· aj · ·sty (the said Lord John M.a11 . _n an.dl '· •8 oc_Ce880nt Be·r Maj
-es'iJi11 :Postmaste,n. ,Qeu,e:r a l fo:r tbe1thne being bei D, _· ·:herehudter· inc lHde in the t.enn
·t he Postmast,e r Gener.a .I ) of t h e one :p art · ,n d tbe Peoinsu.lar and 0 ·r i,e utal Rte m
Navigati,on Compau .· ( ereinafter· ea1 ed the Company) of ·t .he other ·p: .; rt. Tbeae
pres.en te i tn .. · that H -'r M:1jes.t y'a P ,M tmae.t er Geuer I :fur hi u.i tJelf and bL ane-,
oessor:s Her M~iesty·~s Postm . tel8 ,G eneral for the. tiLn1e being ( u to the oo•le-!lta.nta
A.RTICU!!S OB A ,G HER
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an.
, gre.~m~nts
stipulat:o:ne, p,reinafier •oo-n tained ~n.__b_i~ ~n~ _
!~e!·~parts) do~
h.e reby oovenant
d agree · 1th the Company and tbeu· aucce8801'8 and tb.e, Com·1~au y for t.&emsel ves their sueoosson and. assigna ( as to ·t he. oovenanta. agre.eme:ota
.ai~tJ stipu ati~_n s here~·nafter. ~Dt!li~ed on their p~rt) _do ~he~e~y--'o oven.ut sud. a ~
w1 t b the Postmaster Ge·n eral andl h HI, sncc'tssom H . r MaJ e . ty'e. Poetwastien. General
fur the time bemg 1n manner followi · g (tha1 ie to 18 y) : ·1. For all -the purposes ,o,f these presents the term ' mails" eba.H be unr Ie.rsto.... - m
aon1prnbend. all 'b o · · hags or packet o,f let.t n pew, papen books or _pr~n.te papera
a·n all other art■icliee ·wb.'ich under the regolait i.ons of ~the Post Office for the time being ar,e tmnsmiuible ·b x the post w1~·t regat'd e~ thtt-·r to the ph:ioe ~ · . hich they
m: y be addrea8.e.cl or to that iu . h"ch they m&v have,o·r igioated and all emp,y ~.-~ p
efLO pt boxea and. otller -t ores D:d articJ :· .-used or to be
in e·. t"IJ'llllt on tbe Post
Oftiee ..··rvi c.e w hicb. ehaU he seut by ,or ·'t.i,) of from the Ptlst ,o ,·oes in .any •coDD ~,· o:r
p·m
, e to ,o r from wh.i eh. mails, .a te io ·oo, ,c oo . yed in punm,anc.e ,o f tbie Agr«ru•e n.t..
':d. The, Company.will at all ti: - es, tlormng, the.co~t1uua.n ce..~f t~~ , A,g reeineHt CO?vey
-on the1Mviera.[ rout ,. .and .. bet ween 1.he ,s eve,r.al places spec:tAed. 11.1 the Seb~ ule ~
9-c 2
(a L .A.W)
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130
B.ELATitlNS BETWE.E N LAB,O R ANO C'A PITAL
nnder · .ri't~n and. at an avenge rate of speed of 11 knote per hour bet wee~ Brio~ial
and A.I,e ·• audria a.utl between Snez .a nd Bombay and at ;a n a~~me rate or speed or
1'81 knot.e per hoU'r betw · _n S.nez a•n,d ·• hanghai. a. l m - ils w b'ieb ~he ~ -.. tma&rer G.en.eral or an.y or 'b is o , oem ,o r a.gent-a, 8baU t·rom tim.e to t.im . and. , -·t any ti b16 or t ·H .uN
~ urin to- be1eon,·ered, ·i n _i tb,e r ,d i:r~ti,u n b.et\Teen Brio, is.i and B - mhay er between
'B ri ~diai aJld,_ 'S b n,g hai a:nd ,g enerill ly bet een an!" of the por~ ,m- p ,1ac@a, m~Liooe•il
in t-h. 8aid Se.hedol b~ n11eans of V·~ .· · l,R of ·be Compauy 1,•lyin.g bet etn1 .B'rindi~li.
a.n d A'I :sandt1a , nd bet we · n Suez -nd. Bombay . nd. between ,n ez, and Shanghai ill
c:onnedion, w 1t th,. land! cO'n ~., auce ,o f maU.6 throu ,;b. Egypt.
a. 'l'"he_Com_p~111y -•_ ·11 a,t an tim~s duril!g the conU .nan ·e of tbit:a, A.gr.• went ,o r so
long as 'the w~ole Ot" q·o y pa·r t of th__ sel''\f~.ces ,hereb: -' agree~. to be ,erformed ought to,
t.e 11erfonne.:l 1n ~urs anee th.er-eo,r pro, ,d e keep . wort ,y .a n, 111, ,eom,plerto, repair
.a n _read i.neM to, t l1e utbdaetinn. of the; Pc.,stmas~er Geoeral. .tor the purrtese of 0tl!Q•
vey io1g aJ:t, l!H~rei oaft~r 1,rov1dt~l all mail a · .hi.eh the Postm rt.er Ge eral er au:;:
b ia,
o:ffie@rs or rigente sllaU fnm1 time to til ,e and at auy._time. ·reciuil·~ ·t o be oouv.eyed. ae
.bereio provicl d. a aufficL nt n~m·~ ·r C?f g~d ,s.ubstauf:ial and et!i,elent et-eam v~c,~sele of'
!1deq_~1ate po _er ~nd Hp.eed and eoppll,@,t fw.1_tb finf....r~te · pp~pr · te are n1 ,t ·n gui~ a ,d
m aU respects sn~ted to t:be perfo; ma11,c e o.t tba service~ ,t !te1·0 - greed to ht~ r.ert•o•r.med.
within the -·-_ pective t ,,.m a, h · i 11s Upol ·ted ..
4~ T'.he Co.m pany K'haH. land. a.od embark at. Bomba all.m.ane,ooove . ed. ur.· iht'enc1oo to
·b e oou.vered by· th.em, in. pursua_n.ce of this Agreement by· me,anie o:f aeman erteau1 vessel
and aceo11hugiy the Compa:o.y ,hall 1n u .,d it,i,0 ·· to the ve · .Is ,erei , oofom ntent,ioned
p10.v.ido . 'ti Bo,m bay a emaU steam. ,, ·_ e&el hereinafte·r ea! d tbe Bomb y suhs.idi·ary
_teamer ·w hich !oihaU t, - ao eons:trn,c, d as ·t o b€1, .able at · n stat a of ·t ltc "'U,le to land
and ~111 b3r-k tb c ail21,.a t ~in.bay and s~ll a,t aH
·t eer _such v ·- _ J in ,omnpl ·-tie
repa1r :u1d r;eudy for- laud1n.g and en,bark,1.0,g· th@ ·m ..1ds acconbngly.
5'~ Tbe Company ah.a'H ,a·t th ·_ ··ro,w n ,e osts. l,and_a- d embark at mails oonv,e yed or in,
tend·~ ~o be con \ e]·ed by th m, io 1m , __ :~_·nee ,o f thi,s Agr _. m.ent at aU ilOffi-or plaee.s
at which. &1 ch. .m ade are 'to be lan.cletl. 0 ,r embark . d abd, shaU ,acmndi.ngT., at their ,owo
coats pN>\"'iue eui a:bl ID(l'3W\ for In- ding ' niflembarking the mans - 't ;u) Ii , eh port.a.or
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6~ The ve~ls t'o be provi,-ed nnder thie agreement shaH e ahvaJB finl'.niahed wlt'h
an liH~~sazy and proper taekh,.1sto .-
lamp _011. h,llow ·( oe,.IJ provieions -.. •·-~ i·o.e ry en-•
ines auehO:n cable _· boats tir-e-pumps and all otker p,, -oper a.nd. mquisite means for·
ext.ingn tmiDg fire lig·h nin,g ,cond.1us:to,, ~,h art, ebrio11ome·t e , JlMller na:ntical iua r ,1-•
mentlt a·nd_,a lt other r11rn.1t11r•e and apparel and. w~tsoever else ma.. _be req,nm&ire .a nd
n :c~ey· for ,e qu1 pp1ng th · ea1d ·ves&@l~ ao re:nden(!g t m eo:ostao,t l, cffieion t tfor-· 'f.he
eau;l · rvi.,cfts. and r;ban· be ma.nn.e d · i tb .g U.f ,q ualitied a·, d ,co, _1,, tent o.iBCt-.r ..i, ·wtth
~pproP:ri?te cert,i'ft,eM. ·• . granrt a ~u.rs11GD.· ·t o -~he A_~ O! Acts tn foi-ee_for ~he tin.-~ llP1ug t@'b1t1ve o Uu, granting cert·Jicat _· ·;a officers LD tbe le:rc ~ .n t 1Serv1Joo aud also
wl t b ,r.om : -tent e111,ti n.eers and a, su ftieien t crew· of' ab~,e seamen a1ul other men and
,._ i th a comp ~tent snrget.tD to he ,s ubj· ·_ "t .o the a.1p proya] of _tb,e P ,o stmaster G@o.er-n,;l.
'7 ~ If tbc .P o~truaster Ge·eeral. sh::i ll consider a.Py of t be Com.p an :W 1R V@Me.l s Db fit for.·
tbe ,ou v yanoo -o.f lll ·Ha I e mui by· \-V.! th ~ n:•" 'l lll~ :r :tl'iis ha}'d ,o r u ndl@r tbtt h~-tut of one,
of th,-, Secret nri,ee ur J.ssi.stau t -.·-_ ttl"f'taries of t be Po.et Offioo req ire t,be Cum·paJ1~ - to•
e.bo:w" canse why ,s uch , •essel sboukl no,t l:J__ .. itbdra,wn. from. th ..-. e,e;rviee ann u.plea
within si.x weeks after lle·b F qu,iettu:n, "tlle Co:· :p an;. e· ,all ttho · ea.use t-o the e·o ntrary
to ·_ he sa~i··fact~oo oft~ ·· Postm~ ,ter ~ -_n erid he .DJJ1J at any ti.me nft _'r- ,fh: expi:rdltiou
of the .a.u.l per1ocl of sr weeks bi wr1t' nu- l_lnd T_1 1 h n.d: or nd-e r 1the ba d of on,e
of 't he'. .ir.,l1 • -ries oir ,A iKt.au St"eriatnries of the P,ofil.t Offiee ,d eclare soieh vessel' to be
nn.fh fo:r th.e eonve·\Tan ee o't rnaiil s .a nd. r.-fter uc , dfl'elar· ,ien abaU ba ve 1·:e@:n ma.de i·t
•h~I not b . la~.-·ul ~f~•r·tl1e C'om:pa~y to emp.lo,y soch v· _esel in t ,e per.for.man,oo of this
Agr ·men'lt. and 1b ,o rder o det . no1Jne whetb r t ·e Poatmaater G@ner.al sh.all oo j'11 tified. i.n d,. elaring a· y ·v essel unlit for the couve . 1im,ce of' r1u1.Ue, o.r w·b et-l'mcr tile Coin
pa'a y ball b .. a,blt to show e~,,1~ . "to tbe colt" r ry ,a,. speeia e - a1n ~nation 1shaH b6 made
O•f the hull and macbine.r y of an . 1n.ch vie,ssel by sach. person or penons as may be
ae·1 ct;e<ll Jor t b -·t, pu pOH.e by th , P -o stn1.aster Generat
8.. "fhe eqni1r•m ,.nt _offie '11' en.brineers · ncl orew of each ves · '1 wh.e n euch ~ eset~l i&1in
u1 Brit i.sh P ·or.t shall be su h ·ect at an thn · e. to t.he ·i n.spect.ion o.f th .' .Poetrnae,t e,1" Gen-•
eral or o,f u.c h o,t her· person or p · - nos as he shall .a,t any t ·ime or ti111.1e8 autbo-ri.se to,
m~ k es r It iuspoot'ion~
__
__
9 AU mads eon·,--eyedl .from B,11nd11u to Bom,ba:y. in 1•nnuance ,o f this Agn---orneni,
abat 'be oouv·eJ·e d by ·t he Company _J ro,m..Brindisi. to Alexandria a·n d from Suez to • ·ombay a1Hl the, voya=~ fro· s . ·Z_'OO Bu~,b a,r · ,~h&ll _bei CO'bi~leted .in 368 ~houre_ from tlu,oomro~ucem'.@Dt o.f tile voyage frr0m Br.1ndun ·t o, Alexa.od:na ood the :&04 penod. or 368
houm, shall include 17 ho•U .· for th.,e convey aoce _o.f eueh ma.i ls by land i rom Al l1,a-n1d ri _ to Suez · ndl 6 ,h onm for 1be etopJ~age at, Aden of the veeael by , -hic.h th·. same,
■hall he eo:o.v,e yed r--rom iS:au to Bombay·.
_19_. .AU , · aiiht oon veyed from Bomb~y to Br1·nililli ·i ptt .ua'l1ce of th is ,A· [iOOiD n,i
maU be con. e,y ed by, the Co,m pauy from Bon1bay to ,Sne.~ and frem Alexaadd,., to.
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
131
Briodie:i .a nd tbe VCJ:J · ge framu. Atex:- dria 'lo .e -r·i nd'i,i Ehan 1,~.. eon1.pJ eted in 4:'l!-111,,ct -,
(during tile l':~ •v · leuoo •J·f the sonf,h --w~ m~•~ ~n) a.n~l iH _37;", ~ · n.friB ~~al! othe~ ·t irnes
fro · t,b,.· e.o:m:meneeme'D t of be ·v orage :f rom Bomb~!"' to Suez and. th.e , ·i d petiocht .of
4113 honn, and 3,7 5 0ll~ a:haiU iu,e lode. 6 h •O UOJ 'fo.r tb e etop·page a·t Ad,,e ·· o·( tbe '- ~
'b y which the sann:, sha,U be eon'!eyoo from &HJhay to So.@z an-d ~.4 bo.un fnr tht"' t;u:n ey.anee 0 1f tmJch ma 11 s by la u~l fr, 1,rn_:Sne·J to Ale ·. · -·b ria ..
l'I~ AU maHs oo·o,y· ,ye..i from. Hriud ~si to Slu1n.g b __ i in ·po.rs 1ance of t:bis .A, ,.n,t 1net11t
l!llllaU be ,e onveyccl hy t.be Coillu lliUl ·. :If om Bri tad i · i to A16n.odria .a nd. ·f rom SHez to
Shanghai and tb voy,ag, · from liuez to Sbang·hat =shall he oomupleted in 9-17 'b ~)Unt
l durilu ! ' t.lae prev.a lenc,0 o:r ·, he uott !h-eai::.t moutru0:o) aod in 87~ bcn.111:t, - 'l. all o-th@r tin• ~ · ,
from tlie comn1 1'DO ·Alm ,~ nt of' t.he voy a~· f~ .m Bri o.d i.si to A1· xa&dria. and t-h ·. . ·~id ii~
riod:fJ of 9',i 7 . ·,o un an cl ff:'itll ho llts sh·~ 1 in ,.hH11@ 17 h~· n rs for· the ~on ,rt yanc· ,.ii;f ueh
n•ails h) 1 n,d fr-0111 AJ.ex:..ndri a to Suez a d Ii ·h ours fo,r · ·t he · toppa.tre at Aden 24 :h oum
Cor the s:to1,,_p age . t P 1oiut ~le Gu.Uc o:r C 0Io.-m·hu, G ho~rrs for ·t he sloi>p-a,g e .a t .P -maug U
bou.ns.·{or_t-b e stov-~a~ at ·.· iM.g. po·r ~ au<l t4 h<1u N fo.:r ~,b · sto ipa~"' a.t,. Hon,g Kou.~ uf
.
s-nez to -~1hang!uu ~
t e :ve ~1 bl:.. b:tcb tb ~JH ,:;hall h C~UV'C J ~
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12. AU ma I I· 0011 voy, . '1 from Sh f) · •a'1 a1 to Brn1dun
tJhall be1con V1" yed by the Con1 p u.y fron1 Sh ng.ba,i to nez and .f~o.n1 Al . ··andri a. to
Briuuisi at d. tba V0J"a~ f r.uut Al~xau.dri a t ,o, B-rh1di i. h H 'lH., co:m i'l'leted ·i n l ·Mlt• bot n
r( during tbe p:revaleue . of'' the tH>lllt.h-·.. ·. ·· at liH~n· oou)i -~.'!LL 910 .hou.r · . t all. oth~r. t.ii11t"s
:i rinn the com ~enoem.eot. 0,f th,~ vo,age f,·ool Shanghai to Sn,e z an1l ·t b.e _ ·1d. p nods n.f
1.,:003 ho 111~, and UlO bo11 r.~ Rl• aJl in chul ·. 48 hours for the sto11••1t:1ge id Hong K g 24
bou11s for t b atoJ~I · &re at 8h1;::aporn 6 hon . for t b · stoppage ·~ t P n 1_g ~ bcnu·!!,l, fol'·
the ti,t op,·via·"e at P :u iu t d~ GaUe qr Co,l ow bo 6 hon~ fur 't b .· to· ,,.11age a ·t. .Ade·.n .~f' the
w IJ. dch tbe rsa.:01 .ehan be conveyed from Shanghtli to :·u ez aud ~ bours for'
v•e .· l
the eon e . a:oe · of s·uch mail ,by land fro ,·· .' nez, to Ale n1Hld.a, P.r:nTi1led rilwil,·~ t;bat
t ree .a ld1 ti H ~al hours sh.all be -a .lowecl for 'the ,o ouv ·. yao @ of "t,be m Fii I~ ·f'rom Hri n• [it1i.
:t o 8baugbai ·,ud. firuru Shanghai to .Br~DtUsi. . ttspecti.ve:t if autl wh Dt!V'cr Uoh 1ul o
Poi U'G ,d e GaUe.,
s.baU bo utbt&ti t l ted as a port or e.:all ) u lien
:J-75 bo1lrs 94"1 hon:re. 8";5 ho,mr." IJH' ·,
boura
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f
1:3 'fhe · veral Jtt~·tio(l~ ,o
houm aHd '9UJ hour;· hereinb fo,r,e meuti.o , -4 ,n . hereinafter caUe.◄1 ·1,eriOOH of 1rr:.:1uti~·t
~,nd 8ball in aU a.sea b · ·, _okoned fr,o m t.:he comm neeo1eu· •Of the ·v-ti.yag of t.he vu,~• ·b y ·bi.e:b · .h · m t r•art o·f t;!be t.11a.usit- abaH be perfonut-~. ·r,o the co1111,l "'tio11 4· - i b•voy ~ of the v · l by· w hicb th. lBst part o,f t;h e· trau s,t sh aU be p.e·rfor-m dl a u:t. r he
times o:f th . ,ct•n1m, Ln,e ruent. an.,1 e0m1•l -tion of e,rer. snel1 \l'··o~ .a g~, B-ha.U l\e asee·r t .•dnl"'l1l
&mid.recor~ed by o:~ ct{rs ef the P .. t11oast,e r Generali io 11u.hn3:u .•t' of. -~ff'Jin.;fl 11 ·e! ts tcii.
be fro · , tnne to b me made by ht fo·:r so eh pul'l · se and. the dee11i1(J u ot the l!io;st-.
1naster Ge11~r.a l .a to a.U q u,e stions relatio·r·t;o periods. tmmei t .shall be Ji tud. .a1:i,1I ~4 11-~1 u~ · ve~
1·4. '\Vit,b tf', poot. t,o, ·o,v·a1~' e<nnm,enciu • 01 t. rmhiati'ng at Bu1iuba.y a ·v uya~t~ t·◄ 111n ..
1oonc1n, at B01nhav ha l l1e clee.m d. t.o cnim111 e111ce · .11 -_n th &:mul,aJ sub H.l.iat'\r
.s team r wi t.h Oie m.a.ntt on. lJoa·r d a·r .r i v·~s alu:o ·~aide ·t h · v,t•,e,:sel by ,v b'ic'b tbe , ..ox a;.r ,.8.
s ho U ~ clee:me ( 'to
I ntend,ed .• (~ \,. perfV 1"1lll ed_ and a vo:r g . te!l'Dd D,at. . ". ,t Bot111bay 1
· (im:p le't : d '\V hen the Botuh ·y ubsid iars et~am . ·r a1 ri \''. · .:.tlo:0 ·ide Uu~Vl~l bx ,v:l ueh
and with. :r,e 11 ct to "loyages co1u1neo ·:·in_g ov· t~rn1,,..
tll.e ,roya~c: has b@ "-JII 1u~·r.form
naUng at IJ:rintl.L ·· ol" 1S h Lu[ll,bai..a, vo,, rago (:.-Olnmeneiug·st ,H;rindis1 or Sha.:ug·h ai, .-'11.:!lll
be deeuLetl to e ,o w ni~1ic -· :~r,. soon afre:r. t.he t I Hi · appoi n tied by 'f.b Poidrua s ~· r Gt~1H"·r.: d
fo.r 1 ke •~01Hme.ueeu tent-· ll . fil.■0f or· a tl ·•1" the .. •or ,pleuo.u. of the eru b;,t rkat ion of th~ 1na J11
o .·. board 't ltfj ,~ess.e1 ~l hich tb4l! ,.,uy age . is i11te:od~J4l1 to·. ~he per~~m1~tl wb ieh~ ~~r ~11 an
1 ·t hap 11eH a • b v In . ,. n·g~ r·d to pn1c·~·1ea1 cu1• ·ado .a.tmons) tire an~1,or uf 1·bt. , .,.. ~ .t
cau b _·_\V@iglu~l ,or the ves.St.'1'1 can _he. 10..Jsed fru;n it." moo:rini,.rs ·. n•'l a_vo~-a.b,c -·~em1in_:1tiog at Hr'·m1di. ·i or. Slu1n1,thai shall l · . ,d.,~.1:ne~l t;n l~ eoH1pl~,~ d ,vheD th~ .,~,c ~ ~ by wbieb
t.be · OJ ~ll~ · bas _ n 1101. rfurr.u~tl. h.t.S iii'! 1ve,l n·· a 1•u iti"'oo h .1 th pu:rt. 011 fiual t: t' ·r iua·tiou..lrutu ,,·lii ~h 't,lu. 1.naU~ can be cou,~euienOy J.e .ii"T n.~d at d 'b as dn p11e•l its an·. nr
·f tf bet•n attach~,l to Us. iluctot· Jt~
15 1t tu: COIi\ ,(~) ftUCt '- h.: . ·1• "nd b@f.we-.~,. Alt•·X31.Ulri.1 .1lHI Smit;"~ of 1nni]. r(~~n\·f•y~I Cl? ·i nt4':t~tl ti t.o- ·11;e. eo-uve_yt'tl nm·1• 1n;u.a.De . ,._f f ll'is A~rrJ-een lloi n t sha 11 bl'-, n ·u der t-l1c ·4"h n·~~t1101· nf
the Pti~ttHa..~'ler Gt~Hcral aud wh -u \Te:r. flu, t hnfjl tK:' ··Hpi.etl h)· tiuc.h land. colil\"C;\·nu ,.,.
.1:d.ud:I . -~ ·d t btJ t iu11 1101:1 ~in:E1etl•1e =ilt.l" ··U1 .-41 in t b- t b~.h alf an e,1nh·:d.cnt l lditi.01:
. haH l ~ 1H.,1d111, to th · 1wriotl ur rat 'iit <l.unn. r lYhi .•·h ~o .•b t':ic•~ -14. HbaH h:i., ~,e un·uTn·~t..
lti~ Ou.., of tbe ,r ~...:.el!i!! tu bi, (lil"flV ··d,e-d 11 udt'. r ·, h iK Agr-t~t':n11 ~u t sh ~d 1 at ~ncb Eu t•··tv :1 ]1 ,
.:18 ar• "IU."'citi~~l iu th~ 8t.d_ed1dra her:t•ood,t -r '\\"l"iUto and on ~1u, k days of t·lu~ i,•·~ ·k :;Mtd
at_sucb h.ou rg a ' t be Pu tn s.t1t :r G 111eral ~hall a IfI" 1in'fi ,( ui t-h~, h~· · i I i.trm· t'a &1~ uF tbl16
la.h~s t.o ht' trotJJ t'itn ,. le), imue avpro\·c•l by bi1u iu aceof\1:1,i UltC \\-it-11. ., h~ le:n~u, t ►f f bi~
A&"l'loemr.u t or -o-t,h,,~r·w isc as. ho sbaU t hin t fit.) aud im1H11,,.~1 i.a tel) · - fter tbt,. rn,a i 111 ar . e10~
ba rrked 1~11Jt to sea from t01.1c 11 a Du .·rr·i . e at t.h,. e.ev ·, · ,1 pnrtM or 1111~ ~sa.·•-et h ·ly
t;he st1J1ulati,0 01.· matt'4jrs and thin.g s_t.lm.en:■-i11
m1 nfi.on .d. i.H ·t he .a ,'I Sc.bed111.l~, an.d
cootaiuw &b · Im. form. part of' t hillll A,g~men ~ R~cl 1 e. 4lt b$CTVOO . n t J'terfo,: rwt-d by 1he
Company acoonl'i:n gly And the Ct•HI]J· uy sb a H c~o ~~@,y in ~11eh , ess ,. It:, to a ~•d. frnn1
a.Htl ca. -~ t ~ be d~] nrt ·n~~1 ruHl l'l"C.•t.'" h : t',fl at tiU C' b of tit~ JlOrtS 01" p ,}aCft!C nlP'U t 100.e~I ID
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
BELAT.f-ONS BETWE,EN LJ.BO:K AND CA'PJlTA. .•
the said Sohe,11n le ·fro,'tn or· at which the said vessch re to, start touch
d a ~ _o. in
tbe perfom1ance c,.f tb ·R Api -e:men t a.H sueb mails a:e .eh ·11 or may· be tendered or
d · ~ ,··e . d to or received by the Comnpnny or uy of thei·r agents officem o.l' sen.a nts
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,;;, ..
uy the Po~· master General bia
offi.cers or agei1ts requi .ite
for the public scrvi~o th..'i't nli1~Y vesae'I to 'b e • m1pl.i)y,ed. u . ·der this A.f:l' -- ldent hou.ld at
p;ny t,.j m - or t ·i m.es d ·lo_· heT d•e ilarture :fron1 any pnrt front wbieh t ·he, m.a il ar~ to be,
con '\~eyed nn.,d . r tl.-h, .A gr omen t bey·o o d 1h . p ri od - ,ppo:i.nt 1hr h '"I' de [)~ rtn:re th .
from ·t he ost 1n , te·r Gen: ·al bi.s ,o-ll:i0ers vr a;g( nts shaD have pow-e·.r to o d,e r .sueh ( &lay (not lun~ C\" ·r exeeet.lin.: ll'4 hour,s) lt- 'l eUPu ad(lre. · d by hhm ,v r· thein to the
u as:t ,,r ,o f ;u1y su lJ , . .e . el or i1erso,n =• c't.i ng .ns such an,l ~b.i ch e;h l1 be tlc~meid a s m..
ci,e.n t authorir'ty 1hr sue'L detc,uf'o n ani,l in =i1 ,\r snclJ ease an r,qnivalecnt ad,lhion haH
be n,. , to t]1c ·p en.o d, of trn11sit cln.r ·i ng "'·h~e11 ·· 1u::h tl~t·enticu11sl1.a.H takt~ ·pla.ec.
lcl.. lf nt nuy t1m.e or.· t'.h.nes t,be P·o:ittum,· ·e r Ut'oeraJ 8baU ether on account of ,a;o)..
.a Ire r-l.t i.o n in. t.bo: poi·ts of ·an or fur i n:r ,,t be I!' .[t"a:son w hate .. r cled re · ·h alter fhc p1 ri,c :1 la·r da ~r,s ti u.:at s or ~ours o. f cl~p~1 rt tn-e fron1 a.ud a.rriva 1 at any ol' tlw Jori.rt or·t•l aces
to. ,o r frnnm. . hieh 1u;ul ::ur,o for-· tlHi ,r i 1nc b~in. rr. tu he oonv~y@tl u1:ulor tibi~ Agreement,
he eb o.U he a't Ii l1' . rt y .e,so te> ,d~, ou gi \' i ug to tbG Cotnpa.uy thtee ,c .al.·1.uilar 1nun.th' n~
t ie , · n wri.t . n g of g1'.1,c h bL9, ,1 s1 re 1.n-ovitlm •· . s ru,c h alt. rat 10.l!ls,<lo m.ot, Heeies:si ta tc a, .F ~te,of
e] e (l 'lb ,yontl tbt~ rn,1~ ,o f 11 kuot~ pe·r ho 11 bet,~eeu BrinrdisiJ ·ud .AJ . xandria. ud\ bet1'.Toon S,nez; a:11.tl Bou1 Im.. or Ley,oud the rat orf U)f kno-t:!::J, ptr hoQ.r· 'be't,ween. SuetZ aud
1Shangbai..
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19. If at a ,y ·Hn1e o,r thu ·s f he1Po -tm3 ·ter Gt u :nd ehaU clMiln otherw i- to-modify
tl1:-=,1serv h.::es, 1 ercb.J agreed ·t u ho perforn1ea ( as fo,r e .:un-ple,_ t,o i·n c,r ease o:r decrease
the .fre,q ueocy of· tlto oon.\rcyanee nr· 1uaUs he't \ ·eioo ,au. ·· of the ports or 1]aeies t-0 or
fl'om ·w·bich sue; 1 niuil .are tr., ·b e eo,1,ve,,'.'c u.:1u1~ er tbil Agreement o,r to e ·te1 id the eon ...
·ve.; · · c1re: · of ,such mails t.o an,v o her ports or places not Bpooi:ti.ccl i D fltd:s .A gr-e emeu t or
to di conti u,me tln~ ,e on veya.0iee of s.H,c h 10 ti s to ur fro - any po,r t or pl a.et., s_p eci fled i o.
this A,g~eme11t) be ehall be a't; lib . rt:~ ,s o to do on .n iviug II aao _?,bl .· uot_ice t-0 'tho ComJ>any· and fren1 anci aft r the. e .piimtion of a.n ,)" sneh no·tEee the s 11bsidy herein.oft ·r
agreed to, be, pa W. a3 t be •o. ~dd,e a tio for t 'be 11 · rfonoaoee I•y 'the _C~·ml!_ n.y of the
&er' .aces her-al,y agreetl to :te perform~d abaiH · erase to be payahl · 1utl tile P~tmM r.
Goue·r al shnll t'h.e~e,eforth dnrln..· 1he oontiou· noo of bis Agr ement p~)~ to tbe Cow-:,
pauy ill Heu ~ hete-?f·a S,11 b~id.5 ·i 1l C(Hlt;i'1leratinn ,o,f t'h e ' ~rro.r mancc hy ~be Com paoy of
Bl .eb muo=tl i·Hed ,s c.r viees of -: u.1ch ~-·m.ou 1:1 aa shall be all_Fr,ee, I upon. bet l\1"ee· ·. the P·ost master
Gt·ueral and. t be Co.m.paD)" or· fa( ii o g snc·h A.~rieem.e nt of ie.11,c h n monn.t as e.1 all be tle-·
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t ,e:rmi ned. by .a.:r'l>i rat ion hi mn nncra herein ,ft.er provid~d
~nu
th is, .A ·, ~-. ~ -Dt shall
theu(';efort h operate and tadke e, ect · 1;· , e, ··.
. -:- ,a u " . r in 11 :,espe ts as if t , · · ou:n t
o(' a~•c ta a.It red. Mu b:s iuy had _been in~r.teJ. i t'b "s J.greemen t i tead of the subsidy
heti i narter o~ed t fl· he 'l,ttl'idl.
20. Th particular da~ -~ t ~mes and htlorn of depa,r tttm fr.om ·nd · m ·v al at any ports.
or· rlaeea. ,o r of other · er ,:ii . s ( 'fan,~) which may lH arpoint ·d u:nder the pre~er ing
clause~ or any of tht:m. shal I Jor t be tiu1e ~ein. , be ,dee_med'. to _ha, ·t he days ti mea a.nd.
ho ors, of .:'.h, 1 tn·tnro sud .a·r·r ' val ,(!rf maU a.ud o he·r se·r v iices, u ,d er t · · Ag • · en t and
shaH Iao ,ol)ser, etl and 'kept ·b y the Contp.ari y aecordiu~ly ~
2'1. Tho C'om1paut sh.an r,eooh,. ·. an<l .aUo to rew.a in- on board •o f ,e ach. of 'tit ,.. id.
vewlM w·b i ~e e1np lo.ye.d i o t-he pen.or.mane - of J_iis Agw. ~eut betwe -~ Snez ~and
Boin l a.y· aud also . .hi. e ren1a i uiug .a t Suez aoid w . 1e tbftr ., uch v ssel sbal be " :~th. o
·v,r ifb~ ~u t :m ails o board an ,cd6e. .r ,o f the lu(Ua.n Pt~ ,t Office to take c:bu,g -e ,o · and
urt t'he . a:id UUlHa And the Co1Hpany shaH ooeeiveand , ,Holl· to I1en1ain on. bo,· rd
P.:t Ch or th · ..:( d v .... . Is ·h Ue om pl.01,ecl in the -performau.c;te of this, Agrecm,e:nt b . t\\i ,een._ Siuga·po _, . and ff;on g Ko1~ g s.n offiC'-er of tbe Hong Kung P~st O·ffiee to take ,c.Jmr.ge
of a·n d son ·r,b 0 Ho . ~ Kon,g .1u adz:1..
2-J·. A .u1,t,ahJ.e tir.,t class eahin ~'!i'th apr1,topr:ate _ . d _l·_ dd~n:g and fnmitore haU at
t.be co·~ of t 'h . , omp@·n ho 11ro\!'idc·tl anti ap11r.01'lria,ted 'Lrv 1.hem for the e e h1sive 11se,
nnil a·ceor11unodat~on of cverv nch officer a.n,l e,,erv oft-be sailrl oftilc' ·r s s.ba.11 l-.e-victnaHed by the Corri I1tn1 · ' 39 a ch.ief cabiin p:1.Menge.r withon Ii any charge eith, ·r fo:r bis
p.3-.S.,J...~ o.r vicuudl ing,. ,
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·2:J., The Coo1 piU ny ~ha 11 also ·rece1.ve antll sUo iv to :roma1111 on Loa:n] each o'f tbe ga._(l
v : ls "~11:He emp.!oy, din t.'b c rnrfcw.o,ancc of 't his Agreem,0:ut to the -ast of Suea a1ud
a1ao, '\JrhilP r ~nr ~1dng , t. Sn z. or at any port ,cn: plaes e:1. dof Snez and. wbet'ber such Vl!'See1s s:baU I e wLb or. wi1-bout u1ads cHi bo:n,l ia adui.t on to· the offiool' in cbarge.,o f ;t he
ma i 1ft ucb a no 1n her o,f offioors ··n the serv ic-B of the · ost O&iea as· sba.1 l b · reaoo,n ably r iJ-niretl :fur e 'f lU pose_of ,sorti11g ao,1 wi::dtiug up, the mads. conveyed. or to _be
eon\" r ..~·ecl 'h y s1ur-.b essa·~and ebaU ~it.hoot any cl:ii r:=· v•r-oylde suita.h le aocom D·Oll ·1
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ti.on ~• ~1 vi t 1aJU n ~• fo,r Em ch ·.1,r Hon al nffi,c em ei t.her as, eh.ief ,oarll)in :p asse.qgers o,r ·!t
for.~ ca 1,h1 ·1',a .ugt"-TS at the ep.·f ou of tb ttaid I ostma.s: ·r Generat
24. 'rhc. ,cotupa'!D y .ball .u t their· ot n enit p o itle o ., Mch of th veSSGl.$ to he en 1rp,loyffl.1 1u uleir t bl~ A1;,,..., ~cm ·•n t ~ . ee1~a.ra te· ~u,, con ve 1ie t rnoro for the oon·venien't- au~l
BC~· u1· <1 p.rl! i.'f. of flu, ·ma.Us u nde·r.· loe k. .:ind. key and shall also at the, Hke, cost 1:f and.
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
REL.A TION,S BETWEE ·.
133
LABOB A.llD CAPITAL.
wb.m t.be, • ibaU be 'lrequi.red 80 to do by· ·t i e P . tmaate·r Ge; eral erect and pro hle ou
,e atb o,f tba vessels to !be emp}o,y,ed o:nd rr· tbis Agreem_f\nt bet, eeo_Sn, _z anti Bonibay
a separa.tt, a d eon:veoie:nt. l'.-oom on. the npp.erm .. t, d.e ck a d o· ach af 't e ·. ~ }tj to
be,emp~oyedl under this ~gmement he~ween S~gap~re and ~ g .Koo;.g_ a .,~·=•P arat ~ud.
conv,-. ni- nt room, fo tt0rt1og and maku1,g 01p 'tbe :m ,ns · dB · all prov1 ll . · •r\"S ch
room aU &TI43h 'fuin :n tn.re lam.p . fi tinge and e't,he·r couveo1ences as ~:h all h neee.ssary ,o.r
oonven~ent for the p 1nrp.ose ,o f sorting .aln d_m~iug n.P ma.i'ls .-·ud · ·n sue iumiture
1
~amp , fitti.n.gs and •~ t~er ·. onveo ien.c · ~baU ·• · ft.om time to thn~ · lea·~se(l. -, d · epli
in r~pair and the cil f&r· the lamps eupp•.l ied by he. r,·a·om and at 't'he coat of tbs
Company and the servi,,ce.s, of the ,rew o.f ever . s.neh v ssel 1::1b ·1 from ti ·e to tim, ·be
,· "'v·, u in the· oonveyanee of the mailA 'b et .een tbe mail roo·, · · and tl1e ,s or i ng room.
·25.. A.t ea.ch port. o·r pl- ee ·h :r e mail :a re to be deli-v tt( a , d em& rk -ll 'the, o,l:i,, er
having cllarg . ofma'i.ls sball whenever: - ;nd as often as by him shall be d,e emed ueee~
·,·· _ .·· for t 'hie ·p ublic ·. ni · . b e ·· 11 eyed on sbo.re and aJso, f:r,o -- th,. 8 o - to -,e .•c· . -I
e:~ p o,red for the. tJ"me 'b eing "n the performance ,of th1 Agree · · _ut togetb r with er
,( ·.·r s , ~h oftioor s~'l I ,c on i,d it ee _· ·r y ~r t_he purp · · e o:f th·i e Agreemen.t · · · to
do) without _·m U~ in a soitab)e atHl sea .ort y hoat_,o r Dot I
than four oan, to 'be
fu·m ··.11 d · ith effectual covering fer the ma,Us, and p,rr0pe·r s·pru,·i.d ed ·manned ,a nd
cqnip,p d by ·t he Company~ _
·2ti~ ~be master or OORlma.n d.·r_of ea.c.h of toe sai,d v,essel,s employ,. d. in the pe·rt,:nn.
:a.nee of t 1e · .-,- . emen t shall wh.e.n,ev r req o.ired b:y the Poetmute· Geuffl."1 1 or 11 ie
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ag -n•s ,. ithout, ·ny remnneration ot·h er than the sn1J1idy h ,r ein provid •I to be paid
to tho Coiupa _ .·, · ·ke due care of and t:be Co ·. • ny hall be, reepon1nblo for tile em..
hark.a ti,oo . ··o.d (le]:ivery of the maUs1o.
27. Each or s 1ch ma tel'8 or commanders e 'I mak,. toe, nsoa1 d,e _lamUon ,o r tl · . Ia.·r ations ,quh~ d er ·w h.·ch may Ill.e re ft.er _ required b,y t · Pastmaster Gen ml in.
8acb and e·"i. llar cases and fllmish iS'D.c h jo ·m als. ret.u m -. au.d info11I1at-ion to .a nd p ·r -,
form euch service& .BB, tb.e Po t1naste1" Ge:n,e ml or his · -~e·n ts, ma.y req ,ire and. every
eoch master or eommande:r ,o r .of6eer · ol,v anthorised by him ha, mg ·t he charge of
ma mls tmall him. -- lf· imm -d ~ ately o,, the ,a rrival at any of th- ·. ·. id port or plact ,s ot
a.n y such v ~ ~ -1 .· Jiver all ma.Us fbr sach port or place into t'h e hand. o:r the Potmas ;Cl or other pei,;soo at ane·h, ·p ort o,r place w kom th~ Po ttlaster Gen · ml sba U .a n ...
thorise tor eei.vet e Mme re.eeivi.n i· like manner all the ret m or otltt:r nun . t.o
1t · fo,r ·· r-d ill. due c&ntse..
28.. The Company ·_ hall not nor ~ball any of' th mast.ere or e-0m·m a.nders nf _an:., or
t'hc v·eeselle, erup lo.y . · or to he employed un,d er th.is Agreem Dt r.Pcei ve 01r 11ermit to lul
reeeived on bo,a rd .: :ti of the '-e ~. a em p -O)~ed nn.:ler t-hls A~reemet.1·t an.· ]et't . · . , for.
oonveyanc,e other tban ·, ho.• eonta~n -d iu 'Iler Ma: • st 'smalls and. such l ·. -tem , '. ,a-re
O't · . "quired by la to pass t broog:h . be Poa,t Ofice no ii,h all. the Compa·1t1y or any
sno · muter or eo:mmande'!r I c.eive or ~:rmi to, he recei,"t;d o,n l-oaru any o,f ; oeh vessels ,a ny maUs for eon· ·e an~ .·. on beb lf of .a ny colony DI' 'fo •. i~ coo D try ·. it-ho,u t t'h e
.·,o nseo of t ,e Postnumt r Gei1eral..
W 1,he Compaby Dtl. · U .·-.· inmanding and ot.b r o,ftice;r.s of the ve · lsenlployed in
t.he performanee of 'tli .· Agroenumt and nil .a gents seamen a~d ervants or the uomlf•&ny sha.J at an tun_e ' pl.U\C1 ua.ny a,t t nd to th,e Ol(l~n. and. diroot·O' 8 oft e ' ,oat,.,
1naster General .is oli ~rs OI' agen.t.s - to, the mode time .and place of laucbog del i.v r ...
i ,;:c · nd ,-muarl(og · H
30,_ Tb.e Co · .pan. . ,h all .an( ·. v."ill wh .n an,d. so often as th y or the, Mast rs o,r Com..
uia -dera nf the·i r ,· . · · · Is ,s hal · - . required in ·, T·bu~ fiO to do by th : Pt.stmastier Gen. r - or by a,ny o ,_ C· r , or .ag' _u.ts act:iina uu(ler his a
orif y (such wri.Ung to. 6Pecify
t e r,a'Ok or d seri pU'.°n ~f ·t be· perso·, ,o r p rson I to be _on·v ,~ yed and the aecommodat ion to. ha pro \i id .cl for hmm or· t h01u) r,e . iv,- ·pro vit e fo,r ~ i to a I .a nd cnu ve,y t·,o from
and be.t . een a11y of: the ports, or lll ·1.e s b, fr-om and betw-e@n w bic'b • u · o.f · th _ said
·vessels a.r e to 1 roce d l t:&e perfol"m.a nc oft.b i A 1'.reem .· ·t i 11 add iti,on to any ,offio ra
nt· t:he Post ,· lfice employed in ,c o , , t.~on ·w bh ·t.h. mails cnn,~yed or to h o vf'yed.
1111 d,e,r t hie A.g reemeut any n nm her o,,f n val mi Ii t4 rry or · i viiJ o·fti:e rs h1 the service of
II- f ' .M ajesty not x:ee d·o. ~ ight io any ,o ne, nip ,vit'b. or wkho t _'tb ir ·w i~es, aud
childre.., as chief eabin. or tii ··t cla cabin y,a ngen, aod any .n .m.ber ,o,f non4;0n,...
·H1··· s'io ,e d and. w~.rita n t oftic ·
no;t;. ex eediug· fcnU" u1 an one s·:b i 11 . · it & ,o r· w i.thoot
'l·beir w:ives nd chil,clren os fore e· bin o- - eeoud ,e .a :, pa .sengen to=e· ber with ,e,,erv ...
a.n'te of both c.h1,0 f and fo .. e bin ·p a .t rngers, and any nu her of se ·m en n1,arillea
goldicrs en: rti oen, iu Her . ·1aj,e st . 's .· ·. rvice not e.x~~i "'1:0 in , ny ,o n ship wi·t h
, t wi1tho,u t th ·r ·w ives ao.d cbHclre as tl~ck ,1r tbittl Iau passe gers to lJe ah,,~. , ,fl
1,•rov"ided w'i · h ,~ft~' ~c tu.al protection _from raio ,11 u OO·t l bad . eather ~
not e~po:sed
•t u d ·. k . ·w i tbout su. - , eompe,te;n.t sh l •··· • . d to b,a ve bam·m ot..·k:s or lum ·· , ( &Q.bJrect to
·tr be a ,p proval of' tb . Lnrd.s Co ,·m i· ion n of th Ad rui ralt:y ) p,J , - 4 ·b etwce·o d~ 11 •· •
31. lfb.· pa .• ·n gers who, ,··h aU ·. · ,oo,n \. ·yed ~n pnmuane .· of th~ Jo.st prececHog ela~
(who are h.e:rei:n alter d _ ig1u1tcd Go ~erument pa ... D~·r-s) wi h tl1 .i r iamili~ shall he
l~ted io 110 re 11ec't wbetb· r as regnrib& food e3ibin or other ,a,eeo1n1nodation or aH:.,1.h~
••l _ · ta a. 'way uiferior to that o.f onb:o l')' pusse'.r iageq of the sa-· · cla • or. t.b , t ~
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
J.~,4
RELATIOXS Bl!TWEEN LABOR AND CAP'J TAL...
q !1 i ~.~crt. by th~ B :::n bdioo . of Her Ma.J1esty',91 Transport Se:rv~ ce~ The m _ iog or ·t,h e
first n d, seeond•- -1 · Govenunent p _ n gers eh. U incl~d in eaeb. day an. imperia'I
P.int o,f
'!°OD,c!, hotUed or ,d ra~bt u}e,or '~ r and tba't, of' the first-cl~, 'I D addi~
t10.lll ~u 1m.p e.r 1al (>Hl,t of good fo~1gn 1,Vtne. ~rbe ~v~ml cl _
~f p
. · ~~ hall
hies& ui sep ra'la. plaeea aud 1ued1eal a.t tendllnce, .m edictn . aud med11e I oom1o:rta, 1ne.
u t . an and _fi't'Un •!'S _cookin,g 11 b1nsj la a~tiel . . f~Jr ble, -, . · au~ m -. , places fu ·1 Ugh.ts
rtqn1site,articl s o bt:''1• li11g a'nd au other neeem.tie& sb U b - pro•Y1ded for hem ~n
bko wanner az:J, fc,r o~diuRry 1"1.8580' era er the like c l ~, ne.pecta.vely.
_
_·~- l:h·e pa _·~ _gc nw1H:y for Oo\~ rome t passe.ogem anti 'their fam11 ~ea,. · pectivel:,
b ,~Ibo . e .e.an1,e .a s thn~ eb~r~d b • t.heC'o.mpany forordinu-y passeug~for-thesame.
-1ia · and aha 11 · u cl'nd . all tbo particnla:rs 1nentjou.ed h1 tbe la.sl ·p reooa'iog elau58 and
w.b eneve:r a,o y uH,e r,a tiun of -nte9 fur or1l.i nnr:y pa&1ieD.g"eN m a.y be made, ·t he Poatrou,...
ter G ueral - c' t u,~ ·. 1:11nl . Commissione.m et ·t e, Adm "ral'ty ,Esb _U ·1,e 'i1!llmed iately a.p,..
; pr.:1,i ·. d ,u f ,s11cb Uilterat ion_
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.'t:L ·,, teh1me. of l'he en1lunka'tion and disemba:r.'kntion
Rha Il
or ·di
Gov mment ·i , · . u . -· -
be fumidled t:o the Di rector ef Traus.1u,rt Services imrued.iab:tly after the departnu· nd arri\'·,I nfea h v ·. . t.
:w. ,P , Jmeuts for :1>=Htsi11ge-mou y for· GoV•B ·,ment passen,;,"t!·m ahall be applied fur
'l~,- i Ill vomcctt w..-eordiug to ·a fo,r m
't,u her e 'b tain d lrem t be office of t · 0 Director of
1.'rana,110:rt 18.ervicee and sb, 11 he, ,uatl 111..on t.h6 Jlr,od.uct ion, to · 1:u~b · irect.ol' of th,e
orderis iov ·t ~e pa.RSa.ge to ,uthe,r . w i· h ~, ~~tt . '6eate under ·the hand. of th.e C'om m~}!H11ng
,om c r , 1.~c:1 (vu1g t b,, :n 01 be of f.he ·t h1nl-class, i,nsaengere (we · . em ,o and ehddreh )1
~ ;li ,;~ yeti wj lh m
ht1 ugt,8 antl se es o,f t:ke J. ,tt er and et;a ting: th· , l*riods d urin which
1,1lu,~y ba ',,,ti been .il"e pteU ,,e·1;y re,gul arly s,u ppli~d w bile ou-hoard -•1th pro is~ one and
ul~o oil'~ oort-if a,,u• 11ndcr th baud of ·-•ae..'h 11_rat and.secou,1 cliuJS,passenger of huu,r·h~r
)la in b@ .n lancl~l a • t 1e ·p )a . of (l.e:stinatiou and of_ b _'\; :i' g 1,ee prop.ei-ly aec-0mm~
datt~d aiul DI~ th1ring, tlie voyage and specif · in,c th · d ;te from a_nd t-u which · bey
, ,e.r;e· tSO m~tiZWtl. co , ~pnted fr,o m. t J) Ur:,t, to t'be Jost dinner ID.c al~
:J5,. T e Comilamy sbaH con ve1 .for' e,, C1l' Go,vem .,UJ,t _p{t.88.euger free •Ol ,c.hai:ge the
q11:,11nths
l,:tgg-~ge ( w~. th _.~ sneh qna~ Jty shall ~ ~ ti'matal o,:r a~ertain~ by hulk
ur ,n~1J,thi.) 'tn, w·b1eh b . n,, e.nt1·t1 d under the Regnistu>,ns,o:f Her Majeat, e Tra·o apon
:~.... V i1
c e .f or 1hertin1e being in fo·reo and fr igh t ehaU 'be1p~v·a b,l e for PJl,y e tra ha, "';Di ~•e
tt f ~ Gu - e'.r ow~nt passengtJr a'f ter· the ~awe r~te. M 't he freight pay: bl~ acco~diog to t:lie
llr,~, 1lat.ioo s or i:he Com imny for t·h.e l iwe be1 o.g f o,r extra baggage of' an ordinary p _st!!~ u •'' t·r •o f 1· ·e ea :ne c :a-ss.
:Jb., The, passag, . :mumm -y for the w h,.e..~ a1.ul fam1H · of commiAiuu d and.ci'v.il ,ofll.oe·n
w lieu ,n,t. ,vrtlt'Too to I: co,urvt'yed at tb.., 1•0 bUo e,. pe1tu-we 1baU be t mid tt, the, Co mp•a y
'b t t l o offieeis th -mselves.
~
.. ~n· .I n u n eases w.h ~,e u , o ~ cer· in tb civil o -.rtl or mUit· . y let.' ; ice of -- er Majeaty
'Who 1na y oot. be , o ti thul to, . , ~
.g e at, t -,er p bU.c ,Q :pen _·. shaU -req o ~re .a p _ · ,., e 011
l>t,artl any ,t1f' the ve~l!i\ ,e ·, ,1.loyed in-·t he p@~.to:r~nsnee of 1'.birc AJtree teD't the c ·omp&n;v
1th ·d I be bo . ·od to•11rov itlle, a 1ia68a~" fo : u ch Qfficer iu pref~renoo to ilDi ' . .• - tie pa8
· .11 ,~ ,r and. ,-haU ch rge. no h.i g·l1ur· rate for 8ucb })ass.age tban i eh,a,n.-eabJ,e for· an ,o r th.oa1·:v p.btse ; ger.
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.:18. 'f.lte C-0n 1pany aha n rec -u e o,n board each o,f ~he_ ve els emplosei in the perfom ance of · his Agreeme:n t and aball oonv -_ on behalf of th·e Lon .s Co.,1 . ,,i, ·one • .f tbL·' Admi,ral ,J DD)~ emaU 1•ac.kag, s which. mn.J' l,e ordered for coma·v y.ance and abo
1( 011 1~ .· ei virng lrom the Post mas ·_ r GcnL-: ral ,o r h is · ·-_ 'c , , ,o r ··gg~.t . or from tb.e_Btitis na,,. ·I offie -m iln coou1u1n,d of ,uny oa?t"ld statbJD t.wo days pr-evions no:tice)i shall n,ve·i , ·,t_i on ho~rd a.n y naval ,o r o'lbe,r 8,;t,o~ :not ·x c · d.ing iO. 1l•tJJa weig : to. · · 5 t.o11i nr 40
~obi · feeti · a ,b in mea ur.em nt at nnv o·n e t:ir ie ha & 'u v one, V ' 1!~1 an __ baU conve
a nid dtJ ~v .. r ,r1e , Mm all pack ag s a.otl Bh>,:res at th lo, es rate of freight e ba.rgf'd lty
th~ Cow1lo.ny Jor pri _ate _goom ,e, o,f a e·ndlar cb,a -aeter o·r de.escd,11t1,ou aod tb-, Co1np ·, y·
··'haJ I if ve, i rumt!dttnt notice to 'the Postmaster G ·n · ml an.ti the Lords Coonni io, HS or
the Adtniralty orf - ny · He,r ntion ·mn st ch :m'te of fr i,gbt t d ,sbaM i'u all eues · re. po, 9"ble for ·t b - custod.)' n.nd sufe nnd sp. ed;v d lh,ery· orf .eneh paekag s a -d storie,.
;t9~ It M1b sll be la'\"v u i. :fol" th Posto a .tc r Gen ral at >ny t ,i nm a.n d from tim to tjnu,
t , du legate any of t b.e po . 't>I'S ·, ;> .tecl in. him uy vi,r;tue of theBe presents 'to such persou
, If I' ' rsu -H, a~ be _
DB I bink tit-~
-J:0~ Th.e C,ontJ.MlnJ ,_ ho.U not e.oov ;,y iu any ve ·_, e111,ployed. ·ty th 01 in p·'llni,nanoo of
th hi A •rr c'lrH::~ t an ·. nh ro ·T'l y · ri nu, or· a,'DY othel:'· artJci - w , :·eh eha U ha,. e be n le,g aUy
dee1a, ---i ,Sl)t!r.ia'l l1y darnge:ro,ui~.
,41. Tho Com [mian v· ·,shal I nnderta.ke for t bent 1ves . U · t t. .Ket: ·t, · t rel ti 'V'Oi to
q uan uti he.
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4.2. Tbe Lord Commi .toner of ·1·he Adm "'ralty s'
a,t an~ t.i1ne aurim1,g U1e con in-•
uance ol" this Agr,e-e,n1ent, l f t hey shall oonsidor it 11.eee~ ty for the puhJ,10 i n ·(lirt•e.~ ,s o
to Jo ba\··o I ow'e:r and b _ a. Ube·r y to p11rcl1a,_ - aU or o.ny ef ~he ,~es.-v.l fen· thR titno
being ,em,11loyP-d or u.-tendle'-- t0r bo em1111l0Jed 't lnde·r this Agreement , ·, v~hu1t1on or
1
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
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HELAT'IONS BBTW.E &'i LABOR AN-D CAPITAL.
135
to charter t 'h e ume· :!1'.Closively for Her·:t.laJ_ t7"a __ nice, .a t a rat.e flfltire to·h e .m uta•UY fixed :and • ~ e n by them an d the Comp n7 or in e · se of di:fferen,ce ho deierm.i n~~ by ubi'trat10~ and e·ve11 or •~Y ,dUfereu_
g~ 88 !O -~ e _·rno•n t of· .,:a,IuaUon OT
1 · td et him M · to be paid .ijb ·U be,determ D · by · bil tr ··t ion u:i .m anner henu oaft«r ·p rovule4 And th.e,saidCommi . ionen, in t.bec - ·. of'biri1 gan.r en.c h ft88e) ehaH mt·u m tbo
same 'to_th~ Company- 1.n t·he : ·. .m. e e.t ate an eondit1on. as the · me _·'ff', i · t . tbe_timeiof
an,y eneb lt·i nu - Jiea80DaJhl . ,oo·r and teat - 001~ie.1 And i1f any"dif6' i, n ·,. should. . ·r .i •
11 ~tfi t · t ·po~o.t ·t h~ eam.e sb U _
be det~i_oed hy ar h.i·t ra~io· i ·, · ·ma,,·~11er herei,o ilfter
,1.d ~d -. d 1 IS fort her &DOOd. ~ · t u1 the eWie o.i .en_,c h p mha88 or- .h1r . . th.e _serv1eee
h@n,b_y cont,r __ · · ;,ed to be pcr?ormed shall he perfon11ed hy ot er,..easelsof the Company
of a Bimil ·r d:escriv.tio-n to the \"e&ae1 or ... ·. It p1rarcb.~d or hired 1f they c: .· in doe aua
properr ·'time firtmi b th. m And in the ev,. nt o:f the ·C o,m panJ being : ·Uowed by the .Pue~
nuwter ,G ene· al to continue to ·p erform. ooJy a portio ·· of 1sn.c'h servl(:";ea tbe:te. ~b I be
p id to t_h e ,Company eu~b nnual 11111 _o f money as s_ba'l! be ~ ·· · . · upon hy the .Poa~
m.a ster ·G eo,eral nd. th,e Com.p auy : nd, m ·.- · of the,1 r d.1~ .r~~g , _ · to tb.e amount the
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,dUJ~nmoo shaU he d . termined lty arbitration iu mau.ner hereh1after provi.ded;i
'tHK -: TB 0. 8UB8.IDY ..
4..1.. I consitle:r.a tion of the d~e aud :f ai thfol perfo-rma,110 . by tile ,Qompao,y nf the
ee·n icea b ; by a J"eed t~,be performed. by i em there ahaU be pate abl . ·t.o the Com.p any
d. · i ng t·h ·. oontinu.u·nce of ·:thie _greeme,n t ( out of sue.JI aids o s ·p!iHe as_may from
iiiDlH t-~· ·t ime he app~p,r i ·ted by Jluliameut foT ·t h _t purpose) _y~ar ·>' sn.b_idy or anm
after the rate of 37.0J)OOL pe·r aDDl!HD 0:,r · ( ·.u the,,e vent of any aueh d'. · ult or failure .u
tu~reinafter· 01eutioned.) so much ef ·t he, said •~ baidy er om ahaU re.ma·i u ,p ayabl-,,
· - peet of any year afte m ·. 'i' ·· qcb deductions, t ,b rre.f~n• (.if any) as herein,a fter in
that behalf men lo'Ded in ret1pect o_
f any ~neh defa ·1t or .Ii Ulll'8..
•t .4.. I( a·t, any time the, Cowpa:o J s.bal I fail to p.rovide an eftie ion,t 1"88Bel at B-r iudiei
&m1lay or· Sh.anghai ready t.o pot 't·0 ,eea en an.d ·.t the . ppointod.~lay and :hour then
and so, oftt-11 , ·.. the :s am.e , ehall ba;pJ .o. then, shall be d dneted ·f rom th. ·subsidy whie·h
would. in ·t _h e a,b · -nee,•O f ,fJD·c b defau·l t be p ·y~abl tG_the Company for tb.e ennenly~ar
·t bl"' ,s_om ,o f_50CH.~· ndl also the, m
__rth~r snm of_, 1_001'... fo_"rev ry.s.u•t088SiYe_ 24 hon· . which
ttbdl ela ·, . ·. . · ntil ae • v= _l actu. ·~IJ' Proooede· to, ·. , · on. lier voyage 1n ·p ~D~ of
tbi Agre.emen t Provided al waJ ,8 that the tot.a] amouo·t of the n111a deducted.aa lut
alornuid shall o, ·· tb .· aggriegate excw-d :t·be part of the sa "cl su heidy er·37·0",000J ,
for the CUTffl'Dt, ye~ · . hich. &tiatl be ap~U,c a~le ·t o the v-o.ra.ge ,-,- cko~rpd tm_m 't-he firn
port ,e f d ·. partum to ·t ile, l · t port of arnval HI 1'88poot of . h ,eh.defa1dt 1t1ball ha·ve heftn
mBlle bj a, sum g'.reater t:han the ,.am of 1,0001
,4.: ~ If ~t any t.in1e or t-imos Her :J.Jaje tyt . maUa _ha'l l no•t b - oove . d fl"OID Br-i.n;diai
·to, Dow bay or from Brind i i to >ban, ba i w i.tldn b · respe ti ve periods ,o f b.au sit her.ei·nbe·Core lt1pulated in that b ..-half t.tie,n and se,,often as th .· aante shall happen i ·bere.
ahaU be deducted, rm, . the su'b idy w:bic'h hnt re, 'l:f 3 provHJiOH would 'be p · ·i ·able to
the Com.pony Jor the cu:rren·t J"t!a·r a sum of 1001. ro.r e,, . ~r. •con1p . te period.ttf 12 :bou.n
by \Yhiob, the t· ~ e, · tu.a.Uy ooeupi d in t ·h u eon,Teyalh:-e t>f . Heh 1naU , fr.om. 'Uri di~i to,
Boin.bay or from Bri-nd b~ to Sha , h i as t hf11 ta.sa n1ay h · {~ ·ko11t=t<I fro•m the com-•
mei:ooemen.t of the oy ·,. Crom. llrindi i .to A I xA nd ri a t•~ 1:l~ _,c~Jnp'l,t -tioo c,f 1 In YO)~
:&em Suez to Bomb •y ar)ld iShaug·l uu .a s thP e ··. 1na \" It6) .t;hall ha ,~e t -. ceed,e I t be 11eriod
-ef trau1it; h.e ~iube[or:u eti p, I ~ted i thu ·· ua:balf~
4 ~. Ir ,a t aory t~
1oe or ti m.es Her Ma.jestf'' : u1 ai I sh I l uo;f be ,convey~ -il fruni Domhay·to
Bri.ndi,s i or llom S,b aogbai to Bri,ndie1 withi~ th.· reM . •&1'\" Jl rifMl of trJ;Jlis.it h rei.~b.
fon, Rtipula.tedl in t hat he'b.alf then a.nd ,BO often . 'th sa.nte sbaH · pp . n them &haH be
deducted from tbe su·b sidy · .. h11c h but for this,pfO'\~lttie wo11ld be J>a-y _ble l'o tb.e Comp,auy fo.r tbe CQJ'l'•fn1t yenr a 18Hm. -u f 2001 .. ior every eo1n plt··t . per:wd of 12 hou:n by
- hieh the time ac ;ua.Uy oo -•up·~ed h, he ,ccH1vey.0,,_n ce ot sucb maila 'from Bo~ .•aJ to
Hrin,lbd or from baog·h ai ·t"• Bri disi · the c . m1ay· he (~~u · · from. ·t he com...
e110emen.t 41.f-tho yoya.oo from Bo,mbay to Suez or fro:m Sb ·ngb ai to SaPZ a t·he case may
bo to tb oompletio~. of the ."Lo,·a.ge fro , .·~~le ·anmia to, Brindisi) ~ball have_exEeeded
tho.peru)(l oftra.n&i.t b.t■reinbetore :s ti.pulated io that bellalf P1ovlded alw.a y3 tba _in tbe
,e,v ntofthe late.&t-r.i.valo.fa v@ lat B:ri ,litti ha!il:lg'ou boar--dma.Us_ . o,n ve . ,e d Iron ~t:b
~m'b ay a .d Shanghai. on_e l1 dueti,o n onIr a~ t_h~ _,.ate afore aifl ~1 . _be mad~ o,n der
th 1s cl tHte al.thou fb th · ·t i m
.· naHy occupied 1'0. t.h e co · ,1eya· oo er each ma1 ls both
from Boroba· _oBriodisi.audl froni S'b an~hai to Bri·nd.mi ~ yhav0 he.en i . e --· ~esaof the
Rapuet1,v e pctilM,8 of t-r· n:si·t he , in·befo:r stipula·med. ii o that beha.lr _- nd saebdeductle.n
sbal J b . caleu1ated on t.he longer 0 f .snch pe·riods, uf e:~cess.
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47. --: .r ovi,d e ,a l.way," that tho·t~, al un ou,o . oft he,tnr1ms de.d.n.e te4 i.n relf)eet of any aucb
4efaq I'&er· faHur.e u - herein be (o,n1 mentioned hi th ·· d.e li 1ui:r o,f 1maUzt shall ot; xCMd.
the. ;•art of the . "ti ,e ub idy of : ;ii0..,0001.. fur the curre, t yearwhleh au be pplieable
&oi'h.~ ,ro.ya.g ea bothe&HtAncl w·- stof Egi ·p t which hav ol"'@u;bt.to lua·v· b en pu ,. formed
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rlD tfie eon V•er,aneie of :8 . Cb 1na,i ·1· ..
48 Ea.ob. of th · d@doctiou::s, be·r enihefo,r e ·m e.ntioDed. ba11 be
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
ade and tbe 7early
136
■
LA.BOB AND OAPIT'AJ.,,.
'K E.IAT'J ONS BETWBE. ..
NnbsH1y or 370,~t be Tedne-ed accordingly from wb~ ·tever·eaose tbe (lefanilt or,t:dluf.'f'! rn, respec,t . of which the aame are made _, aU have an . an,1 ltboogh uch _db..
fault or Ei1ilnre hnH bave a:riaen · holl.r .or· ':n partirotrt , ·11y ea,u~ ,oreanscs altogether
ooyo,o d. U1 . control of tba Compa~v ;:~nd .a ltho.1;gh no, daDlalJe or loss ,slha.H have beeu
sns:taiB ~il b,y r,eason or i conne hou 'With _neh default and no, - nch d.e duct.ioo shall
in t1r~y ase t, ·. . ·ah,-, d or th,e· ..arme · fh . reef remit'~ - - by the Po tan .·. ter Ge·ue~-1 or
he, dee·tn -.d to E1 . a p11. a.ltv O'r 'i.n t:he natnre of ,a penaJ.t,y and. the paym :.'Dt by ·t be Postmuter t;P.n~ral of \\' Ii at. Bhan .f.tom time to time remain d ne i o, resJ)eet ,o f the sai4
,s u~uly ef 370 0001.. atb~r makh.1•"'. an)·· such <lednct:i.on as aforeulu huU ·i n o,o case
1,riljn,d ic ·t he ri 41•ht of' the Po, .,tm· ter ·G~n . .-~l t'o treat tbe fa1luN of' the Coru:pa11y t&
1irovi<e an. np,p t.opria:te ,re - l a:t :uiyappoint tl place or time or to perform any serv·...
ice ,a,·t or ·w wt fifn t h,e appoi mted peri,od a , .·bre:1 eh oft bu, Agr .· ment.
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49.. . n aeecun1 ut~ i u. : ·• Iat,iou to f'he said ru1 b:Jhl . and the ,t i . ,ctmo:M ·tt,hereftom eball
be Juade o 1t. and lt . tl up t,o and on or·as soon as co veoiendy may be .a fter tbe 31s,
clay of larch ·t he :;}(),th da of J,1ne th · :SOtb ,d y of ,& ptem~• t _and t·t e •. let tla,y o , De..
eem bcr ii ea. b year and t be .;uio.r nt o,r balance· i r any ~c.h sba.H be j,uet ty d n e to
t.h Comp.a.ns on each eueh q n 'f · :r]y ae oon t sh l he ·p aid by ·t h , Po tmr ter Genera.[ out of'~u,c•b · hltt o suiplie. ~tt aSo- ,~ id. u\M!n the &.et1l1e~e.nt ,hemo·f and for tho
pt'HlM> . g or & neh ae ·oun I s t :e: auJ. yeu· iy subs ,d y of 3:70,0001.. ,h all oo d D ed to ac ..
c:rt a from day to, dar so.bJ ttC't. to the ha hihty of tbe ea.me to be reduee : by eue b d·e 1 •
JP'
dnctinn as: afore . - id..
50. 'r.be Po tmast l' Genttal m.ay ~-t au . . i.. · e 'b efore th . 118,t clav of ·eb:runr:.· 18.!D·
· l.e~t b,y n o,t i.(~e hl ,vri ting on d th hand of o:u . o'f the ~c e __ J( ee or A ~ ta·o t Seem~
t'.QlitM of t be :P'o t Office to pay ,d ,u i .·~the cont1 nnau~e ,of ,,bis A. ~teement
early s11h1id,y nfti~r the rate•,o f :100,0001,, p r ~n ·um. ,only htL tead o.f the so ~ .~dy of a10.tOOOL lu:;re
inhefo,ro mcntino c) o:r :So m· 1clrt of su b retloeed snhJdy· a.a ~h Ur 1n ·1.u J}Dya l · in
respect of any yea·r- aft r m.a,k i !!' sueb ,d,ed.nct iODM 1'h refro,m ( if an1· ) as here n·b ethr&
i:n f.bat b h lf e.nhoaed in -,es}t .t of' any Rnoh d,e fault or laH ·r e at\ . fo.1,e: -14 ,r o·tdet . aJwa.;rs .Aud it 1& hereby d ca . tl tba·t in the e.,,.,en.t of the Po tmaster. General
m -king ·. oc·h l~ction as afo·ft'..Ha'~d. _no uedl_,otioo ehall b mw:le from _tl. 0 ~i,(l redu(tJd
eubs.i(ly bJ rea on of any· · nob default or failn:r e , in Artielt!!s ,45 4.f" :tll(l 47 r . pr ~
i·v·cdy re.en ti,onell w hie h is p·rove.d to the, ~ a.t isfact ,•on of ,be .Postma .,er Gen~ral to .Ila ,.,
ariseu w hoHy o·r :in part from : nJ cau.se or ea use, alto,g ether 'lbey,o od. t e ontrol nt"
the Company
51. Thi "'1:,CTJ'l· me t shall . .m me·n c • on or- ~ f.m m the. 1st d y of Febrn rv. l _ ao l
E1hal1 eont 1nu . in fore . u ti the .: Its · d &~l 0.f t . ,a i1 u _rv· t~ aud ehaJ l tl,en, d.eter1n1 oe
i.f the ·P oatmat1ter Geueral ha.U by ·w .r 1ting 11111.,cler hi hand or I d the h:nul ti.f <t, e
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of th ·. ···. ~-re · riea or· Assistant: •. c1e·t arie1 ior- · ,be tiu1e be 111 • of the Po~ ·Ofiloo h~ .\·o
gi .. n to fb.e ·C.on1pa.ny or if th. Cowp,a ,Y shall ha\"C gi v.· n tu the ·p · m,: t r Geu ·ru l
twPuty four· eale:nd , · 1 oo,tl1 'notie.c that tb:e A:::,~mt-ut .. , all ~°' detem.uu · b11.t 1f
·nei tber 'the P,oP.tma ter G ·. nem I nor the Coin pa~· · eba U ,:i ve any st1ch n.oti,oo tllis
Ag.ree11nen 1 shal1 con.tniue in force ,nv@n aft _f' t-b
·,1 3 · t, d y · of J· n11· ry l . · · n 1tU
t11e exp1rat1ou of a ·t weot. ·-fo11r cal ndai~ months' not.tee :i u 1 U,lD1,g as ,a lilresaid ·whicl.l
m,ay: b given ilJ, @'ith ! of _th . par1i _.· ·. h r to, ·o the oth~r of ·t _mem a 1d ·. ·bicb J · ~
:m•~n,t 011 eid. no ice m,ay be gi v,en .on or at any. time ,; dl e·r the 31st du , o:f January l .. ···...
f'iM. If t'be Compa.ny h: n f.u.U to . 0 ·1, 111ee, 't e perform.an ~ of the ,·r ri es, .ber..-by
..· . ,· t-.l to l~ · :rformed on th • I ·. day
. ,0 f ,1'71 , bi1.·11a · l880 o:r. on. th , tint dav the · ~ f rw· ·ieh t bt•i. .P o tw1ut er G oe·:r al , . . n ti ,. as t be. day for th · comm o eute·n t o· · ti• · pt:1rJ.b.rma, oo of nch 8e,rv ices t b . Corn pany ~ ball pay to, Her lilaJ eaty Her lu;irs or su ~
ees~or.,,; as sti puJ: tecl or asccrt Iued d~m a r, -e, ·n re 'll et of sn,c h defa n t the sn , 1, of 1001.
nd a-lso th , t"E1rU1 . r sn ,o f 1 . · l. fhr \"(rr,, n c- ssh"e n r ~od of ·U boun ·w bi,e b f\haU
elap~. before tbe .11omp uy ~b ·11 ,c om men . e th@ p . rfhrmane ,o f ~ucb ,Bt"r ·•.Ile~
1·rovid.e d ",lw~tJf8 that "the total amo·rn1t w·t i,c h .b 11 lo ·co:na. ·p ay _b1 · hy he C'o }HHlY
· n n .· peet of such defall ~t as, aC.oresa.hl sh al I not b t-h ( , aggr1gate ,e xceed tn~ =,1101 of'
40 0001,. P.r ovicl .. d al so tha.t . the pa .· w u by the Company of' tb ato • ~ .·cl un t1 b)·
· ay of st..m·pnlnte(l or a -eerl1,ined dam~"M in. ft"S(JCCt ,of"amy ,Jefa;u t i 'D , he l."Ol~n11,11 • ~ men of the pcrtonnauce o:f t , a id ,ee. ·. 1,r ic · ban not .p· •t:d ud.i ··e tb.e t'.iJbt of·th ·.·. Po~tmu1~ter Gener· l to in, itt . on. au y dedaetiot from t.ho said st1 b , hly o·, "' 70',lKMU •. o, :lti0,0001..
as, th ca- may b • to which he 1ay be @n'titled in rrespec of : e same ,d · fa.ult uud r
the ·p ro i· ,ions be.rein1, •fore ,c o,u t1nucfl,
53. If on tbe ·d t . rm11n · tion ot thi A.g.rnemen·t a·ny v .· ~1l•:r·v·es.s.eler s.baU 'h a e started
OT ,KhaH •:tart-on any vo. ,a 0 ,e, or ·. ·O~·· . .,.es~ ith the 11_aU ,o n bo r, I in eonformiry with,
thl~ A,g reem~nt sneh voyage or voya .ei, :hall .h , · C(Ul.t i.u~ed .. · ll performed. •~·~ t~,e·
m a1 l ~ be lle,h vereu and em b3.r ke.d d .t1'rt g an l · t t i ·.· t, . rw 1nat 10n o·t t 1e · 1 tt 11& 1I t hH11
A~em,e:nt, ~utd remained in. foT.e wit .,l nra:r(l to nn,:v-,sncb_ ~r~sse·l s ·~ d aervi~•- .. 114
wit b , · JK"!C t·,o sn.el1 vessels :1 od .. t"rv t . . .· . • .·· , 1a.=11t afo,r-esa.·1.I. ·r es,: , .· ct1velJ· b 1. , ~
men t ·baH be ,co:n,dderedl M , bavu1,g· t rn1inat~d wh n such :r s . .et:h ·e easeh:1, .· baU
have reachetl their po.r t or ,p lace of des, in~tion :aad su ·h ·r es · c i.~· ,- 1&e . v·c ""s s.lnill
.have bt.-en '[~cr(o,r n M lnit the Coitnp~u :v sb,a U not lit: t~llt i· 'I(~ te 1'@(•1dvo anv pi:tl" tne u I
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
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,54 . AJ uoticee or d.i rretions which the Pos,tmaater Gener-al bb, otioon agents or
aervallt. or· ~n-enta
othe·r t.hao any D-?ti,ee of ·t ermioa.·tion e~this.~~meut ~,y , t_he option of the .P ~mu.ter Oeuetal h1s officers age_n'Cs or ,o thel'8 e1~er he delivered. to tlIB IWUder ,o f auy ,or
the icl v,essels or· aor other offlwr •o r a.g ent of the Company 1n the-~harge 0 r management o,f any ve~l ,em1,l10J"•; dl :in the pe f.orma nee o,f tbi:s. Agn,eru@n t, o r 1eft, -fo, 1 be
c ·ompan,J at ·t lleir ,0£6.e . or ·h ouse -of' buine$8 i o Lo-.·· d,o n or ·. n,- otb .rr ·p a• ..· and any
ot'ices ,o r di~ction.s so gi ve.o _o.r left ahall be binding, o·o t,h e Uom1u1t1y Provided
at ways t-bat .a ·y no.t-:ie _ of te1·minatwo ,o f ·t .hie Ag~~nt s'h an oo ~~r·,~·d on th,.· Com~
pa·ny their officers. ssrv~ts o,r -~~uts at~tb ir oftiee or b,st kno ·. o offi ce i ··. Londoe..
, 55.. 'T be~~ ,t nupany .ball uot ass~go .. ucl rl.e t or dis.pose o~ t ,~ i!' ·$1" ~tn~,~-t o,r 11y P~!'·
tbenof w 1·t.hou t th.e cnn~D t or the- Po , tw u.s.ter. General .tn~1ui1ed I wrmtlng 111 ntl,e r hm
baud or and ·r the ban<I of' ,on.e -o f th Secootari ,o r Ass·.· tao t Secret-t·r ies of th~ Pos1,
Offl,ce, and i1n Ca86 of title same or any part thereof being M&i,g netl underlet or otberwiee dis.posed of·or ef' a ,.y g at or 'b ·bUn1al ·i.:r~acb o-f thile. Agreement ,u r·any oovt~laant,
m,a,·t ter •D F thing bereih. ~on t .ain.e d on t1:'te part of the Oo!°,an.y t beh~ offioery a.ge11Jts or
se-rvauts it sh.an
1 wful fort, a Postmaste·r General 1f he shall tJnuk nt UJnd uot-w1th t-anding there .may or mfy not ha.v e boon any 'fo:nne.r bn-aeh of th·i s Ag .e01e.otb -y writing ·e nder bis '· an,d. o,r uode·r the baud of one of the Seer.i tariee or A&istan.t
.s ··c·r etarietj oftb.e p·, st omc:. to dekrm.i,:ne t_b ~:8 ~ ·!?Ieemen · itbon auy pre iO'll8 notice
to tbe Compo y or th:eir a a . ·n -s uoT ebal I tbe Co1npany be ent,itled to any co,m1,umsa-tio · i resp. et or so,o h de.t erm:inatioo an•l sncb ,d e·t:.ermioati,o;D &ball no,t dep,r i · e 'the
Postm, · ·te·r ·G eneral of a0;y right or n1nedy to-· :ll.icb. ha ·w otdd 0 ,1herwilst.t he ~hti t]~
J RaSO:t;'Jl u~ sn~ ~-r each or any pri~r b,r each of tb~s A,gree· ent an- _ io ease_a~ Y ~uf~
ferenee sh, ·H arJse bet-w een the ·p art,., s hen..■to , as ·t o _tb,e su m~u ·.ocy ,o f · n:,-- nc breae~
ae-.afor-esa.id. toj atify· t'be Postmas,f er Gen.er.il in ll ·. wmlining tlus Agreemen't such
diffe.ren.c e sbalf be :referred to and determined hy arbitrat·.o. in. ·m, :oner herea:ft r· pro-ays after ·ser·viee on t!1•e C'omp,aoy
·v ided ~.m vi,ded. a~ rays th_at in case wit · in - -ven d_
o,f a not10 . dete'.l'm1tomg tb1 agreeme1it au the grou.od o~ o.ny g eat or· ,,■ lutnal breach.
o-r breaches t:hereof th e Company give a,notice ·in writirng to the P:ostmas e·v Geneml
(by drH •v.,e ring the ·awe or · • udiug th'. same iby post t,o o~.•e •o f tbe Sec t r.i · of th, ·.
P . t Office) ~-hat they ,w spu te. ~lll.ie sufficieney ,fllf such b~aoh or bre~h~ .. to justify the
Postmaster ~eneral i . de·t er ining this A.greement .a oeh dispute hall be re·~riet\. ro
arb~trati~ in manner ~ . reinat)e~ fH·,~v«loo and i~ such~ c~ th• e .Agr-e·,. ·ents"ba·t ! _no,t...
wltliata11d ng sucb no·t 11c· of · e ·.erm1oat-1ou eo-nt1oue in fot-r e unless aud nn1 l a1r ,
1\• . ant ,s hall 'b e made. to the e .· ct tba.t such. breach or breae·h es .;,. as OT were,:s u · •C ifflt.
to,j us, ify tbe Postm,u.ter General in .•.·.-v in . sueb ·no·t ice of det-e rmi nat.i,on as af'ores<t id.
5'·,. AU ·n:J:t1t16.d w hic'h in pursuance of the pruvi riou ··, h0·N i11 he fore oo.nta ined .a re to·
be. determ i1ued by arbitration 8haH be- referred. to t,wo a:rb ~ t:rators or their umpire•
parsna1it to and so,.q ·w it'h regal'd to th . mod od oo:osettneneie s of' the, :reference and.
in aU other respects to oonforw ta the _p,rovisio,ne. in t. : a,t bellalf oon1ai1,11et1 in the Comm,o n 1-'aw Proood um A ct l8i"i4 0.l'· · uy th . n s11b · is.ting ;S ta· u-oor .· · odUlcat io,n thereor
ana open every ,o r an~ such r.e':;renoo the_ arbttraron a.n d. um;ptoo k l! reepeetirely
ba \"e po-w er to e, a n1u1e the P.' ·r., es aud wi tn · , 11pon oatl1. o.r a.·ffir • t ·! on and ev·er~,
or any is:oc·h :mfe-renoo may hem d,e .a rule or ortler,o f any di:v isio:oo,f Her Majesty .s Hi_g h
C 0 ·rt of .J:ust.1ee on ·t h,e application ,o f ei t hfir•party and such party may instru.et eouo1 to eon.sent thereto, for ·t he. other party.
,5,7_ In p,n rsuanee of the provm.sions £ontained in an Act of' ·arUame11t passed in b&
~nd :y ,e ar 01r the 1-ei,g n, of Ki.ng George.-th,@'Eh~ rd ~ntl tu led ~:., A.n. . ct for r~straiui ng an.y·
' ·~pe~ co.noo~n~~---h• ~ -~ -~Dl~~ra~t C~mmiss~o,n or Agree,~ nf. mai1e , for tb -1,,n b Mc.
'' &eTVJJce, from be1 ng elected or s1,, t n~.u . nd ·v ot n1g .a s a , em be·.- ,o,f the, House-of' ·0 0111-" m,one ,,, n.,o Member·of th~ Hou86 of Cow,moes. ball. be admit't,e<l t'o an,y @hare or pan..
of -t'.hie A.g ~ent .~t' _tio any bene·t it te a:ri,s e therefrom contrary ·t o ·t he ·t rue!.i ten 'b ·nd
m.ea.Ding of the said A.c t..
,68~. Thie A~_m ent shaU not ·b e biud1ug until it has,·b een a.pp.roved. &y · ·resolutaon
of the H ·O•'QS .c ' of Commons~
:59.. And lastl :v fo,J" tha d ne and fa ~tbfu] perfo,r mance of .a ll and &ingulat: tbei oovenantsconditi&ne. pro-vi~ ciau~s .. rth.~ le .· and agreeme:n ts her.ein1b@fore oo· :t a·· Jed ~"bieh on.
·t he part aud. uehalf of the Company are ,o r ought to be, ohs.er. ell performed fuUUle4
and kept ·t he Co · pan ,d-o hereby hind th.em·s et,~cs and th@ilr suooessont. unto (ii'Ol" Sov·...
ezei. ~. ~d. the Qu~n in.the ,o, i of 40, Offill ~f Ia. ~nl. mon y of t ,e ·u nited ~iogid•o_m
to be paul to 011:r e:ud L~.Y the ·Q ueen Her ~en•e,.a nd uooesson bJr way· of et1.pul.a ted.
or a~ert.ained. 411.an:1 - ·ea he:reh_y agreed 'RJlOU ·~ tween the Poatwa.s .· General and the
C'o m{l3Qy iQ ,;i · · . of '- e failure oo the part of' the Com.pany in the due execution o,r
·t his-Agreemen or , ny part thereof~
.
In witness ·w hereof the . ·hi John Ja,m,es R.o'.bert Ma.1n1e.ra commonly ,c alled IAl'd
John ·· anneJH Her Majes , ·"e P0tttmaste:r Geu,era.l hath ·h ereunt,0 set, bia hand and "lleal.
nu the P,m11 iotntlar and 0 rieD' ·· St,e am .N.a viga/ ion Cou1pauy have caused the-:ir oumc,th. n , a ,_ bereby authorized t.o, giv·e . ·t o tbe 0ompan_
y t 'h e1r o,ftiool'&
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mon eeu.l 'f.o, he :hereunto a·f fi~·ed, the. day· and. year fimt abov4J, writtea
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138
- BEL~TIONS
BETWEEN' LABOR .A 'D CAP[TAb ..
T ,R R, 8CHRDULR 4DOVB REl"EBRED TO.
F.r om B,r iudim. to Ale~aodria ,a nd. back from Alt,xandrl · to Brindw...
Prom SuH to Bombay ealling
Ad
&i't
Adell ~nd. back from. Bombay ·t o Suez calling ,a t
Ill~
.R otJT
..· ·o .. 3~-0,:u;:c~
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in ,er__,, hro wuks·
Prom S i'lU?.i to Sbangb.:.1.i caHiog at. Ad b Poi1lil't de G · ne, (Ot' . t t-h e o·pUon of tbe ~t-,
maHtt·,r Qe.u eral to Ile e ·ereig.oo .at any 'h me and fr:om tirue to t-inie at ColoJJ•bo ~ll. lieu
,et"' Pt1hit de OaU · ) :u1d e:alling al
a·; . Pe ·· n~. Si gapure, and Ho,n g Ko,n:g a·nd t.aek,
&om Shao_g bai to, Suez ,c. l inr" at Houw Kong Singapore Pe11ang Pon1t 4 · Ga.lie ( N' at
·Oie opt io,n ,o,f the Postnw.t«ter Generai '~O Le ex . rcLqed at m y time and from, t.ime, to
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1im~, ·t Colombo in Heu of P,oi1•t. de· G·alle,), and .A,d&b.~
JOHN MANNERS.. [L. 8-]
Signed 1ealed anti deli ,·~r1!d l,y th . said. ,J ohn J .a.mes, Ro.ber't Maunen ( com1Uonl7
,..,lh,.~I ,L o,d .Jobu M=.tDnel"B) Htu· Majffld,y e Posttuaat :r Ge · er. l in tbe p,rese; ce ofHB~RY J... L~ G·RABA.M.
.
ij Prineea Gatie .~. JY~ Dam.s:.l•r-ot-La.u.
The Com.1u.011 Soa,J of tbt,, Pe i, , 8i'td.ar and ,Q ri,e ntal Steam Na viga:tiou. Oo111pany wu
lleJ'ie,U'll to a_ . ·,e d in ·1tb0 J) rwn ce ofED.W ARD 'THOR·· roN
THOSSUTHERLAND
I~. ,R. .E NG .EDDE,
Hr. BAY.L EY
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MAIL CONTRACTS (IND~ CHINA, AND JAPAN),,
Guaran.t eea a d.i \ridend of 8, per ce.nt,.
Suhsi.,dy, 12,500)000' per annum.
Ir th.a eu bs;idy or l2,250t'OOO :111 oot ,n1ffieieut t-0 pay a.di·v1dend of 8, per cent•.·• furlher
allo·wance, i, made to th.e com·pan~ .
Cun-tr-act -commeu.eed .tint day 0;.( .Apri] lt'J69 and oontinued in foree until firat daJ
-of April 1880.
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RETURN to dh' ,Ord,.,. of the HoMNrable fie Hou.e ,o f ,Common.,,. dated 8 Augwat 1870; Jar
cnp.f/ '' of JJtao Con,tra<,-l trifh the l'minnlar ,a,u.1 0nen tat 8.t.eam. ·. aviga,tioli
for
11,,.r: Con.~gaiwe of Mau, brt.u-~ this Couqtry a11d I :nmo, CIU-1:u;,1 ,a,u~· Japao.; tt>g~ ..aA
t:op_
g of llepo.r-l from i'hc l'oatmaater G·euer-al nlatia:,e I htrdf>..:u
eon.,,.,.,
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A.RTI c1~xs OF AG·f tK2 · ·1:NT' made
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·, ·.'
:M&n..s.
·t hiis 6fi h day o.f Au.g ust
18i0 hetv.reen the Right Reno irrahle. S_ uce-r Co1u.pt·o n ·C a,v eudisb i!mnmooly ,c all~ M "1rq1 .'b1 ,of .H.arting;'~ D He·r
li aj c · tt's r ·o suna ~ta Ge·Hernl for_tht, -U me .. in" or ~he one ·p ~rt, a d t.J~,e P:e ni naular
a 11 cl Orie·n ta! 8te3m Na.v~ga t ion Cn1n pa;ny of t~.e other part Wi.t.ness ·t ~a-t ~e, Com1,~t ·1,y for ·t hen sel v·es I hen· sncoesso, s a. .·d au,. ~" · , hereb_y ~ov,eoa1 -t v.;.1th. the Poatiu.~~.Rt · r O nern I hhi cx~u,t on, admi.u1str:atom s 11oot:&WN, ancl ~i_gn 9 Her MaJee't:J~e,
P.t,N,t1in,as;te~. Gen <·· l for )t he 'time bei.ug i.Q manue 't'oUo .i 11,g ( tlla t i · to say) ~-1
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an tbe JHI111u1sea of those p,rese1Hs t
1•n h·.@11 d_.
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u maiJa.tJ' tt.:. ,a ll be u·l!1de'r.stood ·t o
nn
W!l.ll,
n a J'iD~- =ka,
1L~
11.,1,·v _ Qr"".
,--"' .. u 11u,-vu
u o•
~ o-nn
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r-r--
e ter ·
.,., of·. 1ct1·e~
.r_.,,,. k.lill,*
"""~
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Jlli'"ll,,n,
li,!I
::aud. all uther arti c.la · , ic b ·oder 't be exis.U ng rer-Pw,a tiooa of the Poa.'t ,O&h1e re,
·t raH tt1 n i,~ b le by the ·p o ,t ·ithou t , r~gani ei t'he;r 'lo t•he p1aoo f;,o 11· bich trhey rn y ·be
tld.d1·t~1Sect_01· to tha't in. wb"'ch _~they Wia.y hav~ origi ···· ted 11nd . a.1 empty ~JIB ,e1_
11J!b
b1 t , ,es all ... ,o tller stores a d a.rt ;,,cieS! Q ~ or to be ~ HI CaI'l"Y'ID,g on t-hu Poet
-.e1·viee w.h i,ch. shall t"' sent by o-r to o·r ftrOllli the, Po ,t Office..
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l89
HE.L A.· r10Ns B.1-:"'fWEEK LABOR AND CAP.IT.A L .
! .. ' .r at a.ny· t1 m t·he P,081 maref;er ,( Jenera l ,&ban d,f ,ti"M ·t o ll1 oo.i rv ·t·he e "i8thi·• N",1(11 la.fiODI as to , rti~l~.s. ti'\ umi•ih·1 , b _ t.h - ·p ost · "ithtu· by probibif'i ng tbe t :11sr11i ten
~y· the )'.oet o,t· the \Ft iclM ·w ~ich · re, n.o·w ·t nm8mi1M i bl , 't hereby or brv 'Q tb:ori.ei n,g
U1' tmnamiee ion hy tbe post of artietef:I, w·hi,ch are nnt now tranemiss fb,t .. thereby he
.abal.l 'tm at Ii b rly so to ,d ,0 ,o,- gi. i :og reaeona blc not,i,c e to th -, Co1npalirY aud iu C8,,fijO
i ·b e,. ffect,of an,e h modi.fie.ation ·..all lte ·to dimibis'h t·he burden of ·t he ser,~ices · reib-·
to be, performe d a d ,_dol.-t:i.011 shall he m __de from tbe annHn.l ~ul, -·idy he~
af•er a.~
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-~ ·be. ~aid f,o t~e C~mpany ~ -d ·i~ _c ~ 'the _elect ~ - 1snch ·01ooi~~~
ll.oD 8haH be to mcf611:Se _th . bardeu o-f ttlie ,S &I'Vl~ hell:'llDat ter agi_:eed t,o, be111erformod..
an addi1ion aball he wade to aucb. ,s1ll~sidy aud the awo.-t w.t of eu:ch dool · ctiuo . r additii011 as th~ ca m _y ht sb _U be1.s etl:led by a~me:u t 'b et,,~n the ostn1ai:;t(lif 1GtD~
-ien i Q . mau ner hereill!af1 er 1,,ro.
era1 li . d the Co,m pan1 or faUiug agr-eemeu t by ·rbi
viderl~
,"I!! 1 hu Comp y wi 1. at . J l · i~ea dlori,~ g Ul.e ,c on'tinuau ~ of thig 2'grum1.eu t (!I" BO
,u11g as t ,e whole or any ·p rt o.f the-serv1c.es_be~br .agreed ta he per.for.m ed ou~h, to
be pert,·n-_me,I i:~ p~aaanc e tberoo.f p,r o ·~ide k - _p ~a,yortlly a'!d iu eo n1•le.t-e ~pa:~.1·
an~. reaa.1~ for the pnfP?(ffl of oonvo .n1g: u , ~-e·r eniafter pm,vJJd d all H,_r M.1 jeaty'a
ma1 ltt, ·w h.ic.~ eh U at .M.1Jly time a:n d from, t1 o.1e to• t.11.m. by th@ Pe tmn sm·e:r Gent :ra.1 o'!i"
•ny uf hi1 ,ofBoen,or a!ftllta be req,uiroo to l-.e eoh.,,..e ,ed ·-s. h re,i uafter provi<loo ,on all
tht- ro !IUJ8 ,specified'. iu the &:m t Sch dul - ht=r UDde.r written a 8H.dlci~nt number of
goort 2iU bata~l't·al ud efficl n t sf eam vessel·. of au~ uare power ·nd er Pd a o.d fJtt ppHoo ·w it'h tiTitt: rah Ap.pro,p ri _. - steam enght.f"~ and i.D -,n respects 8llit-ed ·t o th.- perft,m ao,ce- herein agreed to be performe d ·w itb ln t,be RHpet:.-ti ve ti -·e--S h~rein Btipu-
i~~!:u~r atipoJ
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4.~ Tbo v-e _,L t to be pro,•,i:ded ond~J" tbi ij Agnelllf"n t eball be ,a,) waye fhrni~hed with
. . cy and Jln?flet ·t.ac·k l · s.toms. oU 'tallow fuel p,r ovudous io.a,c11.·ugr)· , g nea
-• cu•.h01'8 C ·bl,ee boat __ , fim pumps Uld U oth .[' proi>er 8 :IJd l\eC}QU~ite ·m e· n · for ex:trngui~,h iog tire UghtniuJJ:· •0.t)n11n,. ·tors chartl •c hmuome ten p~i~r aau ical in t.rumenUJ.
qHi8He. an,d
aud 3U othe.,r · t'u.m ·1tu·re and apparel a ~ ·w luusoove,r e.m-. ma. · b .
n~essaey :f or eq_l1.i ppiug th ·: • ·i d. ,·eiasels a.ed Nl d,~rin,g tbe111. ,con .t'ant .y - flicient., .C11t:r
~· · e ,B i hJ services a -- d. tu n ued .,it h. ,e~mpe-t,e n t oftleers wit.b App1r,t,p ··at c,e·r t diea tea
o r ·t ~ llw _Act ,o r Acts in force
graH,b -.· d. purs~1 ~ -t to t.~ A.c t 17 &.. I 8 V i~t,o d a C~f·~ UJ4., _
for t.h~ urue be111,g ·m l, uve to• the grauting e.ei:t,I: , cat s ·t o, oftieem 10 t·h.~ · er hant: Ser·viee and ·fso with cow.pew t e ugi neiu·s. ud a, nffici : nt ere . •· of ble seamen and
•&tb·..,r .m~·n and wiJ · b a competen t surg-e on t ,o, be subject to the .a ppr,o'\'"al or.f the Poat..
,.JI _n ·. -.
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m ·· ter Gen.e r.at
!i . i'rbe Company ahaU. land and en1hark. tbe nt ·iJ9 .a t -ombay by nu~ 11 . of a umaH
•team V·ee&OI aod..accordi:o gly 'the Ctt!IPpany skaU in addition to thu v ·- . ls he·r eio'b&fo~ 111eDt~.o -n · · _p rovlae a a.m all a·teame:r whicb shall be kept a·t Bohl hay in efflD.plete
_
_
rep_- li.r f!Dd ready "for· nd.iug aud. enii'barki nw t'be. 1na.i.l:s..
ti.. If Her 'M:aj • y',e PtiHJtmas. · r G n ·r I eh l ,ooosidor any of' f.h · Company 's, ·v ~-1 ■
111n lit -foT t,h o ooov - yen.ca o,f · i ls he :m.ay b,y writh1,g u uder bis :b · nd or 11nder the•
hand ,o f the 1Sooretary· -o.r one of tbe Aasis,t an t · ' _eretaries o,:f t'be Pot1t Offic.e req uiil·e
y sueh l"'l ~ l ~bould nut be wi·t hdra WD from the
·t h.e1.. o.id Oom ·any· ·t o I how canse1 w.h_
tiervi · and onleM, within ,s i -. _·. -_ee .fi ~~c,.r -~uc'h -~qobd,_~iom t~ said. CornpanJ sball
e'lliow ea11ee to -~.h - con trnry to the. 88t1stact1 on of tho 1a1d Pw ·mm'iter Genera I he-ma1
at uny time afWr the @. 'pimtio10 . ef 1,-.aid peri,o d. et e,i · ...•e _ks. b:v writing 1H1dA,· his
ha:n,I or uDdbr· t.be hand ~•f t·bt} Sooretary or •OO · or th~ A~tant &-cret.ar:i~. of tho.
F~t ,Office deelnre. · 1,c h ·,re ·· ·l to be unit for t be con veyau ee 0£ w; .1 ls and :aft.er e.ae.h
decla( a1ion shaU hav _ ·b een ma.do i. . .b · JI. not. be la\vfi11l for th · sai•l Comp _ny to tmlplo,y :s ell v _ l in he perfnnoao oo •o f th.ii C,ontrac·t .A nd h1 _or-d~·r t,o. d-e termintt
w hcrt,h e·r the u ·i d Postmae:t er Genna.I sbalJ be j ustilied 1u deel aiJ·iu~· any vessel u · fit
:f or 1be oonv-1~1·.u1~ 0.-f niai1a or w'bethe tbe 8lli.tl C0.· p ny shall be,ab,'le to show canM,
to 1.lu; cou · Dl'J a speeia.l, t'; ·and uatiio:n e.b U be rnade ,o.f t.he 1i a~ I an• I macb i uerJi of any
~u•ch Vlt'..& l by auch. 1,tenion oil" perso1 e. - -, may ~ eeJee ,~d. fo·r th :l't 1n1rpose by tke
PoRtma t ·r . ~·11 ... rat.
7.. ~l'JJe ,equi1u11eJJts. oWceris ._~Ub,ti,ueem aud ere· .- of eaeb v,e .., _l ·w h en 11c . v~l i.s iu
.u y llriiUsh .i u,rt ~l1all 1,-. , ai,n bj ct at an thne . to the in pee i~u o'f th su i~l Posunaal er
·pemo·t1 or P. I'SU·llU'.11 as he .shaH at, any t.11n,e or· trJne~ u111 t hori'~
otbe..:r
G1t,Utfral or 01·· Rueb
.
.
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t.o Q.lH.. 6 tlll ll HlMJM:.~t''I OU.
re,. The Cowr•a11 y &bi1 i I l.'"'IU I v·t'iy the, ~nd ,m ai I~ at a tip ·ed w , ieh o:u the u v,e mge of
8'Wh voyage or e.~eh Y rt : ~ ~ba,U ·11ot h@ 1~.M ·· b · Ul 'kn,ots. J> r hour •~u1 time ro11t. .
per l10iur o,n rn1u . ~ Haat, t1f
*·w.·~t ol' ,A t ·xau~lt'ia u;otl .b ut 1~ tlia. 11 bin~ ao,t l-•bau· ktJJ~)t:,t _
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One o'f aue h ·,· e ·. ls s · an o,n an-e h tla.J.s of th~ ·":--eek ~nu:I. at sue; b h9'n ff.ii ~ · -4 flu:, Post...
1na.'lt•e r Gen :ra! e·htaU appoint .- od i mtned i at;eJy .ft'er tho .ru a1.la ~~ - ~m harked pn - to
aea; frcunrtouch a1td. a·rri:vu a't the . ve.r ·Lports or pla-eee mspttc ively nJ,- uti••· ue(l iu tbtt
,t;aid. lint Schtdul h~r under· wrlU Ii aud all sucb v .ssels s.hnU couv,t!y ·t h,·~ d 1uada
u !'I 1u.@n t ioned i tiuch Schetl l,e ~u•d aU t.h6 ti. i·p u la.ti.ou.~ 111.a U e t'l& .uu t_h h11b~ t.h -uiu
contained sh ·U form 11a11; of\!' tbi~ Agifli t:.H H!nt , nd, be ot»&er,~ed and p-trfonucd brtbo
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BEl""ATIONS BE'T WEEN LABOR AND CA.PIT'AL .
Company ~ec~.i:ogly And t~,e Co,~ pany .,ll~n oon·v ey in 801eh vesae)e. t ,o ~-ut1 from
and c.ausecl to he ,ded. v~red ud rece-1ved t sue h. of the ports,or ·p lac.es men 111um1t1d i 11
t b-, ea id nn.t Sc ,u..h1 ]e ,i r,o m or at bich th , e0iid ,e s.ela are. t.o start;, touch aud =·• rr v·,e
· o the pt!rforwan,cc u:lf thi11 Agreemeo.t an lftu.:h il:DW It u sb· · 1 or way ba tendered tfr·
de)i,·e~, t~, gr .rece'iVe(l _by tLe Con1pany or· aoy_,o,f ·aheir agents oflicen o,r ~ a,nu,, by
or f:ro.m the P:md'mast@r· G·· D@tal ,o r any of h!ts oSic nor a reu.t~,
10. s ·b n~ld 0 , ·t,e d emed l,y. the ··01 tm· -.ter Ge ra.l . , i!i, o~cer · or a,g eots roeq·.r~i~U: •
for t:h;e 11n bU~, eerv i e~ t ha. t a11y V68Rel to be, emplo:y . d ~nder ti(' ~~m~ht sh.on Ilel _at
.u uy tnu o,r b es_delav herd, ·p arture f~ auy .P ·r t from ,,.· Inch the mail ·trt-1 1,0 be
,con,- yed nnd ·.r f'hii . Ag . · n Le-nt b~. ,o:nd the pt-ri!ld appoi :o"tetl for :h ~ depart'ru :r~ tt l•1,~h1 •m 1b, Po~t mast er· G t~n e1ra l h 1s offi eers a. .d c1.~~1 ts b1aU :~ a v,e pow · -r lo ordt"r ~ 11 e b
d•~ lov 1( not llo\V.@V,g r c.xeeo.d i ng 24 hounJ.) h;v letter acldr~ · d b:v .Id 1 o·r t.betn t •t r.l1t,
1u· _ t.t:r 01 .a ny 9!1· •h ·,;
1 or J-e.hon ,-.<:rt h~ ~ ~ s·, _c'h and ·.. hicb sha,H he d med a ~n r·t iici ~~-n aH 1·hur.i t y J·i )r snch d~ten tion.
I :i. If .at a. v ti rue the Co I fMIDJ' shan dC$i re 10 n1od.ify the set vict\l I
l•)· agreed •w,
·be. perforn~ed hy· ~u b~t it 11th, ~ L1 v-erpool for Sout ba n111to.u or. -ont~ of t] · .. 11-nrts tu u.od
from . hi,c·h ma].s a·r e to b
onv!li,yed t~1 1der this Agn:D-Hl "D't ·t'bey ~ba.U · . , at Uhcrty
8U t.o do on gi,: ing th r@e eal,,rular tu o,n ths' no h~ 1n wri'ti ng o.,f 1 1
t h.eir de11 m an,I
.i n. ~u:cb ca~ a:o~1 ~n 1n .a ndl a fte.r the thne il umed fo:r t ·,·_t 1"• ~1 t[JO~ i.n snc b n.oUoo the
,se1 vices S[.;ecified u:od.,t:,r the h.earl route No~ 1 in th · :ii:"· t S ·lu~ch le hereUm)Jtler ,vi-itt.•u
1
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iJ.liaU no lr.nger- b .. 1~el'fo·~nu~tl und in. li~u of ~n b 8al\"v·ieP~ thrfic shall b@ , Ql1Stit tied
t be twrv ice~ H] :I('. · fi td i 11 'th .• see.o: (l : ·: hed dt b~re1 _1 · d r ·-·"ri.t ten ar 1d t"'X .·Cflf ~1o, b,ert•·in
<111t't1c.~l''\\~i~ ex1n-e . d~- rruvicled · 11 1.Le t'.Jirov·is" ous of ·tb.t~ .· gr,~ n1~nt ~hall tb~ri~afh-~r · ·1,'Jtll · ·f o. t be, liihJt-rnet1·f:ioncd se.rviees iu tbe san1e u,nn r in,
rt:t)pr:t: l ; ,: ts U t b ,iscr,·
i~@s :s pec i1:i le{ 1o ·r on·t . No. l ,o f th@! s:ud fin~, · 'ehedule .lb ad 'IJ,een ,,1ui'n r.d them u·,u ru an 1
the ,St- . ·i1ees ~Mi
· n the ,fl=aidl second Seb~ule bad bee11 iu '. r-t-t1it in rhe 1dace
the'['eof' Provided a'l.wa... s that t e . nto.unt of t,he, con:sid,e :ration or- subi:;idJ, to he p·,id.
to the Com pauy ,a ., bereanafw· Jno\fid d sha.11 n,o t he :i neNased o,r d.11n.i nished b,1··
"'t·ut10,n
.
&'.
·reason of- 't h c en b..stt,
ad:ire.sat•• l-~
12.. I'f · ,a ny t i:m e 'the P .t m ·.:ter Genera sila.H ,d eeire to, modify the ·• rvieee h re hv
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apeedl ·to b~ performed b.y substitutiug B,r iodiai fo,r · ·ammHes o,ne of ·the, port · fb.
an1l f~,o ni wh_,clJ mai Is are to be con-,reyC?d ,u nd!r t~ i. Ag~e·11t he .sh· n b · at- ·11i lJ et! y
10· to do o,n g1 v ~n, , three calendar :mont.bs' not.100 ·1n wn t1 n .· ef 1
&.nch his de~ure Rll.d I a
MO~: · caise · ·nd from and ~
-titer t o ·t in c n med_ tor th.at- e,1trJ.N se in tlineb no ico the ~.r-vlCH specified uu,le-r the, head rou'h,. . o. 2 in ·t h,_, ·firr~1- Sebedu1le he:renu,d er ,v.r1tten sb11li
no Ion "'er 'b e perfo·r-me( and. il'n Ue I or tin~·h services, thti!ore ,sbaU h · a1: bsUtuted h ·
1t1rvie.es spti:c1rti.e.d in tho t,h ird :S ch.e d:r lo h.,er@u~1d r ·w ritten and e · cept as berci n of h~r--wise ex pre . ly ·prmide..d. , .11 the pro· jj ions of thie Agreement _ball ·there.aft a pp l1y
to the las~menti,c~ued ,s er, 1.ces in ·t be 83111 · .rna nuer h a11 Ft"fl11)ec.ts, as if the · rv Ioes
specified in route :N10~ 2 o:·• t'he Mud ,· 1,rst Sched,118 bHd b@~u , nuiU·e<l ·t l erefn.,nli 1nct tlu.,
,s ervi.Ce!J speciifi,e il HI tho said t-bi.rd Sct@d.nl had. 11 e11. in ·, ·rt,e ,l in t.be )llacr th .. "or
Provided ahvaytt 'tha · th - Cu·nlp.1t:1 t1y s ·all :no, l•,y virtu .· of an,y 11ch uo·tice·. afore.·. Jd
be bound 'fi,o tS,n bsU tate the St,l'Vi c · s ~t·-.,: e· n Brhl1lir.d ~tud lexand ria. fo.1· the N J·v u;;eb
bet wee o .Mar,S@:i I ies and Alt:x;;uul ru, ;tS herein l>efo1-e tn·o\' i,d m L u tu i1 the lion t .··cu i
'~ n11el i~ e.ompl~t d a;~tl t;be r::ri~\\"~Y ·t hron~h snch t r1un ~I is a,--nii~,blc tor.~~ be en~ovey
anee o.f Her M~1 ~, y's n1111 lK PvtlV ul •,el a 1so that the _"111oun t •rd· the e~ 11 ~ l8ul ttrahnn cr•J'lr
eu·b sidy to ·b J>"'J1.ild to th . ~otHpau,)· .u~ ht-renrn.fter pro,vhlt~d sl al-I nut b • in •1
-~tl ,u1
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d .i uaioishocl by rca:svu. of' tb •· , .ub ti.tution aftM·~-~.11.d l>r,,\: id .liil ai~o tha :. ,ti1fh r Knell
1sn b ti.tut it'n1 as at
i•tl th, Catu pally shall con·t ,e.y tbe s:did ·mai Is be·t v.""een Bri11d hri
and A'I x aHd ri::~t i.n . ·a c h. <lire .·t l(tn ~1 t a, spt eel ,v hicb on the. ~n,·erage of enc! v·•t1y·a,g . ,o:f'
4
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each ¥e~JJ ~all l~ uo ..Jes- than 1.1 knortg per ho·1r~
13. If
3 ;{. 1UJJ:"
d~uc or tiiu ~s
lar da,: s t-i ue~ c• . h~n · of
tbi:" Pottt~n.1.s.ht r I
,tlc1 •!" rture. .fnD.01 au d
cner:d. s!haU desi.r,e to allter tb 1~a.r.Ucu -
urri val a·· a ..Yof' the ports u.r· J.d ac,;t to
or t'mimn '\' bi,c h ih·r ~lnJ ·ti)·'s ninils are :for ·t he, tiu1,i! heiu,g to be eon·vp,yecl rn.M ~r i ·hi!i
Agreetne t. he. !1a.H bt: a:t. Hbert:y so to do, ,o n givh.1:g tln,ee ,c a endar months' notiC6 in
w.t i r i1 ! g of 8,ll · h 'I · ~ de~ ··re to, t'be Cor:•~·p anr 1)1--ov.i,d ed such ~ 1terat1ons do, no , ne:("leSRita t e o..b i: en n~ of ~-r,t!. .tl_
14.. J. f a r au J ·r·i rae or 'limq the Postmas,t er G neral sha] l desire otb@r~' i~ to 1u,odi fy
1, cs ~vices lum:1 :b:v agv,;•eicl to I _p ~rtorm.e(l i(a. tor exa~ple to iner-ea ... ,o r decft •a:,,t . 1 btt
freci in~nt y o·:· 1' b~ ,on.v •-yau ce or mads bet,,·een an o.f /b port . or plaeet, to or 1·m-rn
·• h ich Hn •h 1nai lili a.r· t'ci) E,c., on v .••·~et u:nd .r t ·is Agr-e emeot or h1 ~xte1 •d ~ he con,. , 3=-nee-of ~uch tna.i hs tto ain :r ot het porb or pla.,o · not e11eedied ·i D t.bis A_
g ~meni 01 to
1
disuoo U1u1e t !tJt! coo,·~~ aue · of ~u h mQ·iiJti to1or &u1n .any Jl0,1 :t or Jth1ee s1 tee · lied hl. t bi , A ~rt- tt:m c•11 i ) I• .. eJ1,:il I. b :1't U berry ,S,O 1·0 d,o on giving :reaaoHa bl ·• ·1.o f i c to t:ht>
Comp~111y :~nfl ,o u paynlg to 1hem fo-r kUe , i~er·-~
or s:tended ser , ices_s1r_· b further
ooninderat Jon ,nu.I l n th • e ·v n t of the IM!::r v 1,c . , her-eby aff'reed to. be 'JMrrfaru P,(I hM-ng
Rdnoed ou 11~,~ 1,aying to t&ew snch reduc~d oomh,id~rJ.ticnJ a _may in ,e~uu~r of tsu •.L.
· · It" • 'b,., u~1r1tu·
a.g ~ d npon b \ve~111 1· h; Compaoy uud ~ l'os·t master Gt!De~..d or
tai_ljng 'He.h _Hl!rtnnl a~r:re~rn_@D.t, by· :tr~U!a!iOll, ·1n .. ~e. 'I U n ,J;LC . liereinaft~~ 11rov1d.,~ _, . '
1~... The part I ti td ar Q ~ .• ·n ,, ,ea a · 1 ho 'l 'B of cle1unt11re- frum aud a ,r: \- al at aHy uf
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141
'"~ch port.s nr pl11res o.r of~b e! ' .~·),, i rff.t. ( 1,f
an~~) w'h -:(·•b bl&,!t· be n,11vnin ted -~,y aDl"_,alter~
.atum \UHler , be t ~o p:re,ced 1ng c 1attSe • or tl1 i ·he·il" ef t brrn tSb· .l r for 1b@ ti nu, be1 ng· be
d.eem1erl to be t b.; du -s t.intrs un-d bonni or d epa·111ue and arri., al of 1naUa and oth6t
,1,erviL+es_uuder ·• biti Ag.ret:u:_, ut abd t'lhull bl' 01J:ise1(\: ~ alJd. k ,e.plt by the CompanJi ac1
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-com i.nn- r~
JU. If ,nn an.y ,~0:O1. ge it• ~itl1er direction Ml\reen Brin(lisl an,d Alexandna the Co,1npany ~ aU hti'I to dell ver Her M~je-srt's ·m a Hs ·t the p.on of' · es.ti nation ( "~h: t her
thtHt.uua ·b~ Br-iudi i or Alcxand.na)1for l't .bo,u1'8 or u.1om .a11er the tiu1e .at _ :bich tho
•. _· ru u uwihi ~to ~ ,( lei i ~·~1 aoourd i:i tg to.. th@. prov:i io,us ,( d this Conti act "'!'h icb a :u.~I
:&tr the t I Hl, . 1.1e1ng ~e 1n t, rce· th · n an,~ ID e,•.e·r y soc h case ·th~ C,o:Dl'll any shaU forf~it
a.n,I po,y. to Heir Ma. _t.y H ,e r hcnrs aud sut"ee~rs. the. lHM11 e · ~O.l . for every ,eo,1oplet-e.
pr-riod nf I~ bouM durnJ,g ·w·&i,f"l· the .deh,·e1·v of' enc,b mails, ei.h.a.l :I b delayed beyond
1
1he t1m.e a 1· " rhich tbG sau.H~ uugh·t to bti d·~Hvered .a s .a:to:reaaid\ Pr-uvi•d. · d alwa.?t,"B
1ha;t t ln~pa,\~·, nt:ut
.a uy e.ucb peual ty as uftn-e~ id -·b all not~be eufo,r,ee · a,g ainst tb ·
C on1pany ·i f it· be 8 o\Yll b,y them to tbe sa i, favetilo( of the p ,· .h n .tttr Genel'.al. 'l:ha.t
Hie de-1 as has a risen from ca.1!1Se8. ~ver w h:ich th -·.v t be Co pany had uot · nd 0011 ld not
bav·-e b ·. a11<~eon · rot
l1 . l.f 1:u. any -c ~. no herein.b efore provided lo,r tll . Company 8baU fail to dleUv-e:rH-0 r .M:aj,~ ,t:y's wails at any po:rt at W b.ieh the same o.ug·b t to
delivered i p llr&Ua o,ce of this Contractt 'fo.-r 24 hours-or· mo(f aft r the ti · eat ·..-1.f .c , t~e sa e 011ght h"
1i;e de H \"'er-f'n acc(u•,fil.iing to, the Jlro·viaio-ns, of this Contract w hi1
cb ehall for the 'ti me1
·h eing _l, • in i't!·roe then and in every ~web e .. · the Comp. ny e -,a 'forfei and paJ to
Her !tlojesty H r b~i1rs a· d sueceMOn the. sum
Ml . for ev,e.r y comp,l ete Jt.eriod. of '24,
:b,un·tt eluting ,vhi ·h th d lh·~y of Rueb man -shall be dela,y,e d b :yon~1 ·_ he. , ~·w e, a;t
wbich t·b e eam.Qongh _- to be d.erveredas aforesaid. Provi. ed alway.a ·t hat t;be 110.yment
of auy ~.ucb ptroalts · s a.f u~ . · _'i_d .-~ha.I l not be, ,enforiceil against the, ·C
."oru pany ~ f It. be
.ffhow·n by 1them to tm, eat ~r· ·ct1on of the Postm-· rter General that t&,e ,de.Ja,y bas
n.r i~ =1 ftoJ•~ ca:o . 8, o,.-er w h ieh they bu iC'o m pa:oy h ·_,d. ot a d eo'Uld 1iot ha17 -· had
.a DJi eon tro I.
LB. If' the Company .. hall 1lebver. H.el" . ' ajre str.''s wails · , any pori .a t ·w hi ch t .,;same
e11gb.1; to h . d~H ered in ·p nnnonce o,f ·tbi.s Con · .c t 24 houm er· more befo,r e t.be t ·me
at \\ht h the Comp· n:vi's oou d to deli\·er · be same aceonHng to tbe p.m,, •i_ -ions of'tbm
C011tr-ac _ whi ch shaU fo·r the tb11e bc[n ,. be 'in J·,o rcc th.en and, i.n ever.y !9!1leb ,eas,,e l-1,t r·
Maje · tr s Pu. t~a t r G ncral r~haU ·p aJ to t~•e Cump~·o y a. ·p.r-¥-miu·w, o ·f ~l . for· e·v.:r:y
,com plote p::i:ri ~d of 24 hours hy w b ich · be de U:v rJ or .uob m. · "ls ehaU ha.Ye been acce le:ra.:edl as afo,resai,d,.
U•~ Pros-id d always a:ud it; ."'· - herellJ d ecla1red fh .t ·n~ · . tra time to be allowed
-d11riu.o- the s.easona of the .c,utb-wt-:st au,l nor·t h -ea., monsoo,01 shall be ta'lte into
.11000.uit in .a.H ~neat.ions, ·r el ting to pen.· IC s but ·•h n bot Le tak u :m to account in
er
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a.n y .qnestion _·~Eat1ug to premium~..
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20.. If ·b . •C ompo , . fum l to p,r o\.~1t1 :.. an ,e·f fl.eient v, . I at any of t be. several 'JMi>rttl or
pla.~ at ·w h .c h e.ueb ve1eel OH ht ·t o be {Jrovitletl i u .a eco,r dauc . wit b th~. tenns o:t'
t:hie Agreement ready t ,o put ·t o se·a on and at tbe appo ~nted. day and hou.r then
a111I so often ,' s t-htt ,s ame 2il.aH ha ppeu the Cc:unu.a ny ~s.iud'l lorfe.i i an · pay unto H-e1r
'Maje ty Her heirs a·o d s oc .. ssom the anm of 600( and a iso fh,e :fbrth.er s · m of 1.001., fol"
e ~-'·- ,8J eeesei. e :24 ho 1m whui.h. ebaH Iapse un tU ,s11•ib
1i act11Ja1J, pr.oe d8 tn - 0t:1 lier ve~ a,p in. pumnance of tbis Agre~meb _ prov'ided. al '1-a:y s ·t h.a the tetal · mount
of t:ho p81la[Ues last aforesaid. sha~l riot :i the aggre ... ·te e · ce.etl. ha p ,rt of the .s nbeid)" o•f 400,.000f. ·h ereinafter made pay ab·l e to the t:001po.nv w bic11 ·•bai I h atl[tUcablo
to the voyage in :res,p eet o,f . hich de ·.·t11.t ah·· I b ,v,e be~n. made h.~ · .sum gr-e-a ·te:r than
tbe iSl.ru of ). tooot..
21.. The ,C',o mpa y &haH whenever required. by· · he Pos.t' 011u)·t er Gellt'.ra'I so 't:o d,o rie~ei ve an-d .a llow to n1111aiu 011. b,o.a.n l of each. ,o f the said v . ·. e s _·bi ie emv loyer:.I i·n the.
performance ,o f t'h is A.~ men.t on ~ ny ro . te east or Sri uz on(I a Iii• w ld le ·re:.tlul ioiing
at Suez o:r any port. or ·p lac· e . · ,o f Sll•ez and. ·whetber suel vessel sha ·1 be ,,. i, & nr
·w iitbon · mad .. on boam. n Offi,o er 'in. her Yajest'.f''a,: .· aivy 'to be ap.poiot-t'.'d h J the Postmaster ·Gene.i:al t·o take charge. of the said. run.HM .u.t ul a~ .a Sf_f\' ant: n f ao.t~b um~r (if
l'eq uif!ed) .and every 811c,h oitic.e r shall be reeog,oi se<I uud , •(1,'tuiid~r,ed I y t I1e Co11 pai~1:y
t-he:i1r offioor.e, o_ent,s. and · amen a· . ·t ba a.ge:n.t oif th Post.Hu• ter Ht•uer~d ir1 ch~.Fg•(~ ,of
uttHs. am,dl as wvin: fu ··1 tho:rii. ty in all · ases to eq u i·r e · <h and s· ri -·t pe.1.i iurmanca
• •f rids .~ em.en~ on the pal"t ,o f -the. Company ·t heir tdliters, • ~ut.s nnd agenb..and
t-o d,,t,,tiermine 1(,s o fi ·r as r-el tea to the levyi n •~ of .l...en· 11·ies )1e.,-ery {l.u . stio.· ,v beD.e v·e r
· !iid·o:g· rel,t1ve to, p,~ n ; to sea, or 1u1 ·• ting ~nto har~our· or th.e u~ees.s,~ty
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Jn1 lltil ll l 1fe au d th a --cH1uln tJf auch
~ffi,~ r a:s aforesai,d shall in e ·,ery s•111,ch ca.Sf!' be linal 3--r1•l. biud in,g on the c~·•1npaoy uo
le&t. th,. Post1iu ·· ,t,er ·G enerat on -Pl~ •al l,y ·t he Cou pan~~t 11·~11ks :rm>,p er ·ri_o rlec:ildo ot:herp1 n l".
w asswt an v vessel · d1 s·t .ss ,o r to · · ;•r
,v ise provided. ho\,· 1v - tha . · b.,e. words, ,h to ti tetu1in0 every que,sUo.11 '" shaH uot (.;oq..,
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142
REJ.,A.TIONS BETWEEN LABOR AN,D' CAP.I TAL..
Hbert., to ,11i'n.b1Utnt-e for ,sncb naval ,offl,eer· a civil offl.ecr in the 1.erv·iee of tbe P t
Offiettto hB. . e el arge oft ·e lffl.ld ma·ilB 8 -;-d, t~
li . reupon. and ·1n e'Vt"J"Y caee ffl wbi~b a
,m vi l offiee·r aball be appoi oted to be in cha r.g e ef ma;U1 eueh laat-me1it-io.ned offic~er
,ttba]l be received &bid . be aUo . ed to re\m ·i , en board e· eh of the sai.d v ~ s as beJ'CI .1 befo.r,e .P T~'fided with resp~c·t t,o, any· f.Hltb naval otli~•e r bt _t when ~•i ei";.il o ·· · ~~r in
tbe senriee of the Post. ,O,.Dioo shaH be in e.h&1:ge ,o f the said 1n,11ls hle d 1i1ee ,1 ball be
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confined 1 o th@ P0&t Ofti.ce 'b u i DeM..
·
23 . A fJnitable ftrst-"'clmm, ca.b in :wit~ a.p-propriate ~ed ,h.e dding.. and ·f om1itnre B~all a~
th~ ,e oat ,o f th,e C~m-~ 01y be p,ro"..r-1,de.d and -,ppr•~pri~ted by them · or _·he exc~~111v! u-,
,aJld. aeeommot:lattou of every ,s oeb :ni - ·v · . or Cl vi I offier r and. every of the Bald offic'. em
ebaH be vjc.t uaHed by t::be Co,n:pa .. as, a chief cab i11. passe ,gei· _ itho1lt~ aol" clia:r ge
,eif-her .f<n~ bi~ passage or vi.e._ uaJUng:~
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2'4, Tb. · Coropan shall also r c. 1ve .a, ·,d a Uu , to ·r -ma.in on rar-.d ,o,f he. tmHI ·v ~
,eels whHc emplO)"t!dl in the perfol':maoce of th i1s Agree1uen t ,o u 3uy· route . ut <t·f ~ ,u.~ ..
an,(l ~I.so, whH.r,, 1.~m.~ huo_g at S,1u·z or: ,any por Gr pl'. af\8 ~~,t of 18.uez and w_bet'h Jr sncb._
·v ~ls t,bnH .· · with or wit'bont mails ou boar,d u1 .a dd1t1on to th,e offir,er tn ch&rJi,tc o.t
·t h . ma i 1e anch a n n mher of' officers in the . rv i1e oft be Po..t, Office a&.1,Alla,n 11: e re~nably r •q nirt-dl for 't ho po rp · · of' ,s o,r tin,g ' and n1ak i ng 011 t ht nu1i Ia conveyed or ·t o oo·
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aPd shall prnv~de, ,&tdtable · ae omwod _tiou an(l victuaHin.g
f~r nt~.h nddi tional officers c it'hur o.s r.:hi f · tbh Jlasseng ·n ,or a1:dore ea b.i n passenb•l"II
t the ~p ·10'0 oftbe ·s aid Postn1aster ,G en -rat
·2a... '.11.be Cmmr,any shaH a :t th : mi· own , •oa. · prov·i de ,un. eacb of th vesaeila t~, lm e·m.'"'
[.tl,03:~d. , . -~~e~ tbi~a ~-~ree1?1en t .a ~pa1ra te a.nit! con v!,ui ! :n t, ~m for ~·be _conv • .n .~'t, a ~14
8t!enr, dcpo ·1t o , -the. nuu)M ~, d. r lo •k a11)(I k.<!')l and tih.all a KO · thP.: bke cost ( f an~t
w Jl ,'ll ·t bey . .a_l b r :q Ji r-e d so to tlo by t be a1 d Postn1a Jcr General) •~rec t ,21 ud, 11:rovid . on E>uc·h or ,so eh vesse1:e. eW'lll n:rerl u n(ler th i.. . A !1:"ee:ru,ent o~ any ro·n.t~ ,e:. of Sn~ z
a eep:rrat .· a11d c,,n,..,e nieut t<HllD for so1.1 ing and 'm aking 'U.p th isaitl 1nai'I • and i,ball
p,11,,\ 1d.e i o :such roo11 1 a U ,1 uclt f nrniture ·1amps ·tit ti u "ij and o't.b er coo,~en iente_. a!it, stud I.
be u ,fle:1·r ary or con v -m ie·o.'t to,r t l1ie pn rpn ·c of ~.orh Illig .:uHl ma k.iug ~• r• n1e said m.a ils
and a.U sut·b f~n·11it'lt'to · amps fi itim,gs · ·nu ,o tber •;01rn ·e:ni<·mcfl'S e:;h•tll lm fro1u Urtl!o tot il1nc
cle,s11.JB{;!d a.ud k ~pt in. -r, pah• ~n.rl th .· o l for the la.m ps a11·r,pl ied b,. tl1c 8erva.nts .u d 1:t
toe . O!;t' e,f 1·be Cow.pnny a1nd th-e s , r.vices ,o f t-'be c1. .w· O•'t· every encb ., .. · · .. I .;lian •··n~111
·t ime 1'.o Uwe he giveH in -ho con y :n,ce of~·t be m1:1,ils hetw~h. tJ:, · 10~ n ru•l.iblJ .¥rul t.he,
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26 . A'1 t•u,c h port ur ·p laee. wlteTe_t'he ~ id n,l!Jtil ..ar, · t-o l1e fleHve· e<l .a ~d l'l!ceii.rt•tl thi ,
officer · 1a.vl11.g '. •barge of m·a i 1A ~han ,~be·n ·, re:r an,.1 as oft ·, : ~ ·1tv h.in t;IJ.;,·11 be, ,t !,t •cu (-d
n~ssar5 :h lr the public Kervicc an.(1 ,, ith . r w,i th or V."i'thout 'hls: assi.l!ltW1t or 1~ -rvalll
he convo;\~' ·<I ,o n bor6 aud n:1,
fn_1n1 tb .-ho ·. ·t o the ve l ,employe~l fo,r the t.imtt
beiug int 1,e _pex-Jo•r mance ,ot· this .A greement 1ogt1ther with or (ir smreb officer ,i;ha.H
eo __'ltrl r ·i t neee ·,3JJ."1 for tb ..·. 1n~q1 · ·· · of ·t.'bia .. ,
,ie nt ,1 0 to_do) wi.thoot madls. i.o a
ni'ta le and .· awot1hy bo,a t of no·t Jess . lJa.n four oars to . ·. farn1is -oo witb ,efrec·f.ual
eoyu.ri_
n g for· thP.1 maHs., and 1•roper _y provide_
, m1.-~Iied .and eqrdpped b.3: t~e,C,on1 pany ~
:.!7. The :nuaate.r or co:m man.der of each of ·_h-e -.1.d •vBfJ8618 employed 1n 't he pe·rfo.rmance o.f tbie Agreemen , Oil any ro,n te W·~s,~ o.f ·.~nez and i_n ,a n ~W:leB where the offloor or
,n,t ber p rson appcnntetl t.o ha v,e cha,rge, of tl:1 _ a.U _ ehaU be ab5ent the mMte:r or oow ...
mand.e r o·tea.c·b oftbe ea.id.· .. se·1i1 employed ·i: ·. the ))erfonoanee of th.is Agreement on
.a ny· l'·O n .a east of Suez eb ll . it ou.t any .r emnu,e ntioo (other tba tbe e·n:m :b erein.
·pr-avi~ed to, be 1·.a.id t~ the Comp~ny) ta: _~ due ~aro o,f_"°'.d th _ Com.van.y aba._ll be r&aponEubl.,e for ·t h • rece1 pt ,a nd. de 1· er: · of the aaull m LUJ. and eae-h
such .m asten o:r
,c.omm.a udem sha.l~ ma.Ice the. n .ilal . ecl~iration. or declar-ati,ons~ "~9tuiroo or wllieh .m a.1
hereaf ,e r· b :_ . regnired by tbe Poafmas,ter- General ln ancb. and eumfar'casee,and furnish
e.neb. jova -.Js, retd.lD8 and informati,o,n to ,& nd perform. euch services · ·· the Poetm, fer
General or his a,gen't~ may ~equire and ev ry su.,c·h b'i ste,, or :e .ommande'l' or officer
d·o'l.y o.ntho·r ised by hit°; ba~ing th.@ ,e bar,g@ of Dl ,Us, &hall lµm_~
immediatel1 on 'tbe,
aniva] at, .an.y of the sa1ll port .· or p,l_'.a_ ices of . , y. _u.e.h VN&ele d liver .a ll mails for s11eh
port or place into · h . hands of the Postm aeon~· or of'her ·pel'80n at eucb. port, or place
·. :h.om the .· ,~ stm _ .rer Gent-iral eball au't.boriae t.o recru.v•e t'be, 1
same receiving 'i n .1.ik.e
Dlaline.r .· ll tlle -· llm or otoer· ma -l.s to be fo:r-wan)ed in due eonme ..
28. The Company ball not nor shaH any of th,e maskrs of dDY o,f th,e veBBele em·p•loy d. or ·t o•·o e empl,ay@d under , hi . 1.p-eeme ·t ,r eceive or pe·r mit to, be He&lved on
'b oard ~·n y of the ve~la en11>'loye~ ,,111tde~ twa Agreement : oy lettcmJ.ior oonv~yanoo
other t.ban th.oae duly 1n e. · ~a of 'the &Hl navaromcer ,o r ,o ther peno' u tho1"1.sed. 'f.o
:~ ve charge of·the sai. ·. 1nails -or whie'h an, or may be, p,r ivile · ed by Jaw nor any ma.ila
for oonveyance on beha. -f of ·. n.y colony o,r ro,r eign eoon.t ry w-1 thout the ,eoD.HDt ,o,f the
~ -- t:master· G . u . ral aud in ease of an.y sucb · ·_ fa.ult respecti· · ·1y the Compa; ,y ebaU be
JialJlle to be p,mceed.ed against fo,r breach of th.i s A,greemen.t..
_
.
29. Tb.o CowpaHy and aU co:mman-dincrr and other _· · e:em or the v ,e&MhJ ,e mployed in
·t he p .· rrfomiaue@ of _tlli,8 A.1:,~meo:t ancl ··U _,geD.t s seamen and &erV.antH of' ·t he Com
p,a·- y ha II a,· all ti.DJ e pnoctuaHy atteud to- t&e ordcr'B and direct.ioue, ,o,f toe Poltmaster ,Gene·ral hie.officere.or a1,rents ae to tbe mcCHle tim,e1a.id p,Jace of lantUng deUveJ"
mg and!. rece,i.v iog :mai LB..
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143
RELA TI0N8 BETWEEN L.lBOB. AND, CAPITAL.,
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30.. Ttf.!. ·C ompany sba11' au◄l will when. an(l 88, oftc.n as in writin~ they 01" tbe, m=»;tcn
,o f their rea~ctiv,e vesael~ . hall ~,.. rceqnired eo ta do by· the ea.id Postmaater General ,o r•
by &D.Y' naval or other offlce1's, o·r .a, ,en.1'e, -. -ting ·u.nde:r h 'e uutbority (so.ch. writnig to
specify the J1U11k or d,·aeri,p·tiou.of the penou or .J,en;one to be ~Ol!IW)"ed and tbe aoco11r-1uaclatioD to be pliOvided itlr bin o-r· t.bem) ·11eee1v~ pro,~'id,e for vk·t ia.1 and oon·v, 1 1
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and from ,a nd betwe n an.v of tho plaeee to ·which auy ef f.be rm.id ,.. se ls an to j,ro,..
~ _ d in ·t he perf<n·_
rua.n e of . hie Contract ( in additi.o n to., f he ~n v·a.l otlic.•e r aHtbor.ifll?iAl
to ·h ave nh.ar.ge
tbe aahl maUe a d t ,ei o.tlioenJ of tlltc Po t Offiec 'mfl,oyed in eob n!!ct1on 'WI th. t bu _malls eo,n · ei·ed. h1: ,t\tnch vessel) any n.u m.ber o( na.va .mitu htnr:\' .and.
civ:1I oiBcer,s 1n. t b.e1 ser~ee ot · Her II rj .- y no·t ex.cee~u ng ~ ight in a.ny one ,s hip, '\' ith
nr withou~ th• ··ir . l ea amd, _cbi.rlreo as. eh·ef ca.bin or tit-st-class pa&weugers and a :a y
D'Dmher of ~on,-eomm1es.iloned and ·w an"mlt o:OiceT&, not e e~;dU ·g four j a.11 .. . . on . Bhi1p
·w it b er· w .i'thont ·t heir wives aud, children. as f~:,ire cabin or second class paue.n gers ·to..
,, ethel' _itb eerv ante of both cb1 ~
! a.tu.I fo:re eabiu .P ~D ••e · a11d any 1.1 a u 11 · o( &• • m '"'il
marines sol,d.ilcm,o.r ,ti rti fi.eet"A in Ber llaJ e1t-y's ser,11ee.not reteeodin.g 10 .i o any on ~· sb i.p
·w ith or wit;b e.nt thiemr w·i ' e ' ·d ' hildren as deek. ,o rtb·i rd-ehlMJ) ' ,_·, .ogera,to 'be always
provided with. e& •-tnal 1nrotection from min. aun and bad weather .and. qot• exposeil on
dee k wi,-:bout ~u ·h oompe,ten~- s.~ . It · r an,d to ha,~~ h~lllmoo:ks, ~r_'b1nib, (sni'b jeet to tbe
a,p pruv~l. ,o,f t 1.e Lords Comw I} lOI CTfJ ef t b Ad mi.mlty )i placed. b61t ween deck&
:~:J,. The: ~n,ie·re w h_o shall . -•· rJBn eyed iu pursuance of the I -·. t preceding chutse
( ho are b reinafter cl i_gn~ted Govern: - en - passe:.n g rs) i':th the·i r 1·a 1nilw ,ab.all be.
t rea't ed , n - o :r .. p ·ct 'W hethe,'r·as mgar--d e food eab·in oretber aceom·m ollation. or nugbt el8e,
in a way inferio1" to ·~.'h a·~ of' onUna. ,Y p~ _- _ get' o-f the same class o.- that,r-eq 01 red. _;.y tho
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Recgu f_a'tion!!i of H r ·, · ujesty'HTnuut,port Serv·i c~ The messio,g ,o.f t-ho fin1•aut'I ~ .eOHd
class, G·o,"'Cl':nment p~nm f'S s'b~lll inclH -~e j11 e··· ,· b da~, an in11p~iull ·p iut oJ goocl Ko11Qd
hott-. e-< · or drangb.-t ,a le or IJeer· and tb: _t of tl1e. 6.rst c·la.ss in :uld~·t ion au impedal p:i I
of g -o oil tore-igu, " ~in~ · .· itber po:r.t ·or w'h ite. Th @~vet.al classes of passengers sha.ll :m ea
i:o . 1taTnre plac.es and medieUil ,a t:oondanee n1editic ine :md medical oomfort . m~s, nff'nsi 18,
anil\ tit tin.g s,cooking , teu _ils a rt icl a fo,r table US6 and :mess,1>la · e fuel U,g lde re.i]u ism:ta
.;ar -1,c _.es of bedtl'inO! a:-nd all o'lbt-·r n ~ eessa:ries ,- haH ·' ·· - p,r ovided for them iu like man er
· as for·ordi uary pas~ngen. oft llo Ii k _cJa. . . re peeti. el ·._· .
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pas .. ere mo ey ·or G1 ,v
·r n:m ut P' , -n . -:rs and _their famUi.~ , r,"tipec ~i '\f~;ly·
slud 1 be the ..-:we as. 'th• t c·baI'lgedl by the Company for ordhi~ry passenge[l"ij, _nf a esi mtihu·. ki d .- , d shall Ul~H:d~ :.tU t-~(~· partu~ro'la~ +merdion.,e d. in ·t he la~ prooetliug clau. se,
and .· henever au y at t r;a.t.u,n ·, of :r-at- . , for onl nlar:iv pasaeogen :mas . " ma.1 le nu~P ,u st
·m.aster G ',. ti l ' d t bc Lo·nlR,Conun,issio em of' tbe Acbniralty ~haJI b@ -hu111edi,:11feh..
. l u f oc b ,-.1·terat 100.
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3.1. Returns ,o f' t be .~mbar'ika·t ion and dise01 ba.rka1~ion of all Government palSSI' 11.·~ n
shaU be. fnmiis'b ed to th" Directo_ of Tran~p 1r-t Ser,riiei ~,s i.uu ccliatt:ily after th ,. ,le.-part nu and . -rTl va1· of _3,eh f,' . , , t
34-. Payan . ot, for p ·.. -·r.w~ ·, 011ey fnr go ~e.rnm.ent p:!l686n~:rs ,M al~l ·oo pplie~l for h.f
in velces aceo1iHog o i f~ •rm, to be o,b - i:nee fr-em tho oii:ee o 1· the D1 rector of Tr:■d n&-~ort Se·r'1 ieee a' . ti shall IL :tiu ad-e o ~ th.a p,roc_hi,c ti on kJ, ,s uch Dil'1 •,cttH.. o,f th ... order&
ror tipe ,:ass.ages tog, th y ·w itb & ~rtifieate undt 1" the bJtncl ,~)f the eom11nan~.in,6 offit.~ t:
flpee1fyu1fl' the 'D1r1m =e:r· of the "thJrd-cla.ss. p ·. --. oge : , ( · e n wopren .::uid el11l411r .. n) con-eyed with tb - .~ cf';ancl . ·. . es o· · the lat tev a.nd ttC adog t;b periods clu in w h i,c.h t bey
have been ~. -)le -ti :,e .. -:gnJ dy 1Ril)•P,l1ed \Vbile. on hoard, with pro,,,. i;siou~, aud aJ:sc 01
a cen i:&.c ate. _lraud.er the hand of eai -l\ fimt · ntl seen:ud cl~, passt,0gcr· ot Jug or he-r
having· be H an,de,d a·t the pl=-.tc ol 4Jl · .ti · .t-ion -~'] ,o,f havi ng bce.o prop@rly a ··cor:nmodated a n,1 me _ d d u.r h1g t-lie- voynge .and Bpeti fyi ng the da t.e8. friom. and to "'"l I ich
'f:be:v were, ,SO messed e,omp1.1,·.ed from th fim·f. to t,h ,o la1st diio1n - mP.a J
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as.. Tbe Company sha.H co,n vey for ev,~ ry· Govemm-~ nt p umenger freo of cbarg th~
same t1nan t U y of bagga.ge ( ·.. h.e tb,~_r ~ ~,ch q_
naut.ii. ty Bhall he esti 01 • ted or· aseert a.in,ed
by bulk ,o .t· w,eigbt) .. hum. according 1o the .r.egolat:- ons of tb ~ Oo,m11a:~y f,ir the time,
he'i'ug they , ·onvf•. - free of ._ b rge for ,a n md.inary pa.ss.e:ng,er· ,o'f tbe s;une class and
freight, · b · II I~ payab'J - for an.:. · e -tra b~gage-ot· a Gevem.ment passe-nger .after the
&11rue mte as tie fre·1gb t pa. a,b e .· . . otd in _~ to t he1same regn lati,fLIUif:I for· mi: t ra bil:J!~age
of a..n ,o.r.d."'·u ary pa.sse:ngcr o.r tbe 63:me e·1,~ ~o; _
361. The p a ~1·mo.ney fn-r t-he w i -cs. .a ,t ul fa_:ui Hes of 00Qlo1 i&ri.o n~d and ,ei ,~ il offi ·en
w bt b not order -d, to 1J - cou ve ii at the p11 bH "' expe.nse- sha.11 be paiid to the Co1 11an7
by· the ,o:ffl ee t h•e msclv·ea..
·:.11. In · ll,cases wh.e re ,an nffioor ln ·t he ri,. il naval e,r JDiHt&f'J' t1e·n ~iea of H·e r Baj•·.i•ty
w'b.o,ma.y 1not he entitled o • ·11at.Ha. .o at the pu blie , pen '- ,s -aH require a p.a6f,ag. on
hoard. anv of t.he ·~esselit -e1npl0,y. in t,h e perfonnauce. of t~iSl,Co:ntraet the Cowpan.y
.11boll be ·~ nod. w·b eo diey ha"f.e r,oom to liro-v.tde ~ passage for sncb officer in 1~reti ren:ee to,·p n va te p _ .. - og,er:s and 18 · 11 eharge no higher rate for· ucb passage. than i&
cltar:gea.ble ror an a-:rdinarry p,i1,.,...en,gert
·. :·. The, ·Compa:, ·y ,s hall t i 'I\C@1.\fe on 'b o -· ru e ·: - of the v,e -· ·ls e,1nplo,, :cd in ·t be per:£•nnan.c e o-f this Co,n tra . t and sb911 oon V(\f •On bcbal f ,o,f the Lordi Commise~ o'" iere ot
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NMiving from the Postmaster Geno-r ,o i his of6cen ot agen:t:e or ltom tile Bri.t itib naval
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efflcl~'r in _oowuu1ud of the .s tation t·wo day ' pnri'io 11a nuHee) sbal' ree.eiv,e o,u board
fin,\7 na,ral or other :s to~ not ,e xceed.ing 10 tons weight ,o r t.5 te ,. of·40 c·n bic :O~t e-aeh
i.n 1ne.aeun1neni at any one time in any one .eaael (pacbges and store11 of -· _d a~~roOB
er da.maghi..,t·, a.ture e:x:oo,p ~ in aeemdance ·w ith t'1e, gene:...ra·11:regtdati,0111 of the Com..
pau)~) and. :s hall t."ODVe.J and deliver slUili small packages and etoree at the lo .. ,e st rate
of freig;nt eb:ir:.,eil Ly the c ·om-pan · foT 1u·ivate g ,t Mldl of a, ,simHa:r ebamete·r o,r de-..
. · .ri' 1_ ioo and the Corri pany·shall give im ediaite ,oot:ioo @· the Postmaster Genenl . ntl
tbr l~o-r,,~s.Co~nmi~. ·oner.i of the Adm.iralt'.f ,o,f any alteration 'in sn.eh rat.e1_o f :frei.ght
anrl alt . M in a .I I ca.s.us ho mspouei hie /or the, nD8tef · and eafe. · nd speedy d . Ii VM'J' uf
anc h J>ackagc..-s and eu,r~
THE AMO'O·NT O
SUBSIDY.
~)'. And i oonside.r a,t ion of the dne and faithful ·p e·d ormance by t. .0 Company of
all tb.e &crv'icet:t, bereh.Y eont.r act •d ,o _·be by them porfor.mc.d. the Postmas,t er Geu~ . I
dot.h hereby eoveuant that thoro shall ·oe pa.i,1 to the Cornpa,ny (out of sqch ,a ids or
en ppl ies a1 may from tim.e to time 'be phr.V ided and ap·(U'Opri .,ted b,y. Parliaineat for
tba~ p-1,rp , . ) ,s o J:oog ns, they perionn 'the whole 9f 8U1Cb se~ice9 in manner and with.
auclb _essei - as J.enf o heficu:c. ttfl.pt-ctiv -ly :p rovided the, ,swm of 45.0,000 l~ per annum by
«JU~.J quar~~ly pa:yn;i nu1 .-~~ the ls.t ~ay of January ho t · -~ ,u _y o·f .· ·[!rL tbe let day
.or J nJy ' ll(l th.a l~t da,. ' of Oct-0 b r 1:n @V, ry year 311d. so lll propo,rt1on ro:r any 1689
per10t I th an a,q 11arter.
40. O.o or .a s .s oon as eonve.nien tl_y may 'be aft-m- the l st day of April and ·t he 1st day
of Ot}toher· in. cYery , .. aF· duriu,g ti :e ,con~'i.' · .ane- ,o f 't his A~reement an ace()nnt eib all
be u~a,le 01r~,t , of the ,a mount payable to the Co1npa.ny or to the P0stmaster G~neTal. on.
acw1lnut of' prem'i'nms ea,ued. or ll . ,alti,es. incu:r.m d. hy· t,he Oompauy ao:d if i ehall
appear hy such. acco,unt •.h ~t any f-1rth . aum i . due, fro.m the Postmastet Geo.era'l to
tl1c Com r,:n1y th • ,sa1ue a:ha. · be. pai<-l ihrl h w I h to the, Com'plHlY by the P . tmaate.r
Ger · :ral ,o ut of such a:id or eo·p plies as af'o.reani(I and on t · e other b_a~d if it ehall
:ap:pt--ar t b~t~any B}UU is f1n.e fr,on1 t hei Qompan y ·o _b · Postmaster Ge ·eiral_th.e · · me &ha 11
l ·r1 for h.wi th pa d b, the, Co,m r-any the Postm,aster Genem1 or a·t his o_pUon ·ma,y be ,{ ledueh d fro1n the ,u sxt qrar1 _d.y pri,)~m nt ·· u , to th~ ,om11an. •
41. E ,·ce1, · w hero ot bcrw'ise -,e , -l)f't:ssl,y rrrovidcd n.one of -~he Bffl"vices,perfo.·r med er t-o
be ·,,. rformod. by tho Company 11Jnder t bis Contrnct eh:t ll en tit:rc t hc!ft to an , r.eruuue.1·
at 4tn bt:,a·o ,( I 't ' e 8:l1id s ·IJ::; ~ dly of 4ii0 ,OQO l. }l "'l " au ll um anid .s ue lt. other SU IQ o:r 8ll1iDS of
n1ou.t y ( i r au, ), as,ar,e h Tei 1before ·. 1:1,re-a~ly ·tna.do J~a.ya.'b le .
And ·i it i~. 'berel>y fu:rtltct agnt: d · ·nd. dncla~t:l b •.h ,vL~n aud by the partiee, hereto a:tt
fo:uo \\"H .:: ( r'h at 'iB ·t o ay)
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,h t lt sbaD he lai"wful fort.be Postmuter Geue.r.al at any ·t ime amd f.ro.m ·.. in1e to -ti.nic
to d~ ·l e ~ate auy ef t b~ iu~,we:m ·v sted il 11 him 'by virtae of the-88 pres.en ts to sueh ~qou,
or 1• rsuns ns he s·hall tbink fl. t.
4·:e:,. The Co , pan ... eb -H . n.dert ,e for them he,s an ai"r-ang61nen.t,. ;r~lativ·e to ,q _u a ·.a n f I ne as connected . ith the dt e nd re,g u lar per for.R!unJce of tt..be, e 0Hd ltion s ol tlli s
Cont~t~
44. T'h e Lonle Com,1nhmioo.e:ra of t:h e A,d.miridt~ · shaU at ._uy tune (JnriuJ· th,e <~o-µtau uauee o.f 't ~is Co J a: , t ~f they 1l!iha]l cousid ~r it 11ecessa.c y for the pub i.c inter-est ha,,v,e
pov."',e•r and. 1,e a 't Uh rty to purchase aU or any of' th.EHiaic] Vf:L - ,""ht, ut a . \ uloation o·r to
ehartM' tbe ,s am, ·. -e xel ·ui.i v. 1,y fo:r Ht-r Majicst y's srn:•v'i,oo a. a J."a te. of biria to be uni l!lally.
lixtd aod. a~reetl ,~u. b-y th · m and tbo sa'id ·C ompan, but .if any ditl ·rence shoe. Id _··t aniy
tinH or- t.im -~ arise as to ·t be afflOnut of valuation or hue o, to be pat il su,cb. Jiff. nee
eht1H be sct:tled h,y arbit.ration in .1 nanner berei n after :p ro 'iided a n·d t _h e, .s.~-i•1'l C onm uissio ers in t:b~ case of bi rin_g· ,?iDY a ·eb 'Vessel -ball re·~~tu the sam~ to tho ~a id Co·wp a1 1y·
i.u the :ea1-ne state and oondition as ,s he, was iu a.ti 'the,1',im.e of.·· o.y ,s ch 1ir."'11.,w re· souab @
w,e ar anrl tear e - cepted aud. ~f any diJfercn,e e sbouJil .ariau npun that point. the- sau1n
shall be . rt.Jed hl tbe aame mauuer as, the amouo.'t for ·t be b.",, jng i:,s to bo. ~-'ttled 1u.
ease of di:.rerenee Autl 'it j9. far ber a~r-e~ l that 1u ,cnse; of 8,l!C h 'p,nn,huse or bi.m the
.Me·r-v i1 ·e he:re·b.y contr4ct . dl to be pen, n:med ha U b • p rf01·11l1.t ~d, by o ;'he - V\e , _·1-:t of thfl
C'on1ponv· oif a simUar des.eripti5in to,the ,ressel (?r :,,teasels purchased.or lured i.f they c..,u
in du0 an•t (t~p. r t-i •~ fnr i b ~hew an .. ht ·t.he ,e\"'ent of the said Company- b i.u,g al lo·w·e,l by t~e Pos~t 1:ui'tj~l"' ·· · e~eral to ~onf." · ne to perform only a__porUou_, oftbe ,s ervi,c ~
tb re ► bal I be pa~,. t,o tile sa Hl Oom1, ~ny such a!)ID ua] so Ill of mo,n o. aH ~Ii ~I I be. ag·t,e~tl
npou by th Post;ma.,ter Genc.~r.a and the: sa:ild. Compru1y and in . ·· · .· &'[ t-'~ eir ,-un-,•rirg
as to the, amoH ot t&e d itieren_ee to b'ti settled hJ t w,o. arbi tr·a tor;- or an omilire. to ha.
cbo ... n r1'!,SJlect lJ Ml aforresai,d~.
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45.,. Th is Cu-nt:rac:t ,sh.al I commence ou or' as fro· · t · . l t day of A·p.rU 1869 auil eh al
cont.i nne in force nnt " I th · ·. l t;; .Ja v or !,,e brnar- l ·· - 0. and ,shn1 i th .n , t: ·er. d" u.~ if thE
Po1t.ma.ster.·Genernl Hhall by writing un1tler us hind O' under ·t b,e ha'Hd of tlme ,... cret:•ary
or o e of tho .r-\.sshdan Sec ta.riles, ~ r tbe ti.rue b. ing of t.'h e .P•o~t OtD,ce ba,..,u gi,·eu t,
the C.0P11paoy ur if ·· be C,o mpany 81.al.l b:a, e,,n'l '\i •e ll t-o t~e, Postma._s·· el" Gt!inei:_:ai ~.IJ c;a]~u1hu·
,Dlon U1a' noti c~•· that t bis Contrac · sha l so .E) eteru ~.ne IJiu.'t, if neitb.er t be Post 11u1at.,r
Gener~d nor the ·· •,un pa.n v K1ta1 lgi v . any sueb_:n1ot ieo t_h ~ s C'oo tract sha.1 [ con tin uc in for-e<;
,,w.,~1111.fter f,hu ~- id 1~· ,d ay of Fehruary iSt,O uo 'ii 't he expiration ot' a '24 ,oa:lendar·
months' 00Uc~ .in wri'Ung ,a s aforesaid which mar he given h.y ei tiler of the,1u1rtiee :oore1
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lo to the o ,b r of _tnem an.d w·b icb ·1aat..me-nti.onoo notice 'may be given at-any time
.
after the le~ ,d ay rO'f Febro.a·r ,L 1678.
4.61. The Co n.traet, dated tile 19th day· of' Ne, -ember· IBb.7 and. made, -- et,w,e en ·t he
Pos.t1Dastier General of the one pa~ &nd the Co , p&ny of the other p~ e~ll be, d~uted
a·od considered oo have ramai1i@d in.fo~ unt il the sai-d. ls,t da -. of April 1009 and oo
longe! and as from the last---m -nti.,o ned date the sam-e is bereb,v termi,na,too .and a.n,...
·n ulled all claims e,I the Compa,n y in Fesp ct of ther&Ii : · -dy therein. m . n.tieued ba:vt ,
been ·f aU)" M!ufied and . dt h r , e · u.p to. the said _let day of April 1869 by ·t ile pay.
ment up to that,date of ..· subs,i .· afte:r the rat.e o·f soo,.ovot per annum as tih,e C·OJn•
pa:oy do hereby_.a.,kno -le.dg,e .
47 ~ ~_r ou the ~-~te:r_o1 ina:!,io~ of th i ~ Agir:eem~nt, a~, · v .. .. 1 m vesee:Is shall ha\re sta.rt@d
o,r shall a .• .rt~ wit~ the _ma1!·-.1~ conformity·wJJt~ thi• A,~ _']) nt ~nob_vo,-age et·~oyagea
,a baU be ,c ont1nued anrd perform . an. them · ·1!e ibe deliv red and received durtn:·~the
,u me as, if tlJi.s A ~- emeot batl mmained in foree wit-h reganl to a·l!ly such. , essele .and
aervieee. _ ~nd , .1t:~ :r e petrt _to e~eb. :ve.e~ls _a nd se v ieee, a.,. last ~fo:re~i~d thie A.p e::men.t ehall be contndered as ba.v1ng · •· ,m1nated when ueh vr·. ls shall have reached
rv.i 009 'b aU h a·v e been ,p e,formm. but
tluri l" po.rt or i1t . o or dJ.p · tina.tion 8 '. d ,B llC
the ea;id Comp,a nr shalll not be euti tied to, r ·oeivc &D) pa,: m.eu:t or compensat i.,o n Cul'
·t he same.
4S. All aud every the suDlB, ,o f mon. y· he11eby stipulatecl to ~ paid hy the Comp · .J
~~to B~ Majes~y Her heira an · au•ccesso.rs shall be ~liderid. u eti:p ul . t~ or _asoe•~
·t aioed damages whet-h er any damage or _loss has or.· baa noJ;, been. anetai 11:ed a ·d eba
.and. may oo _re.mined by 't he Postmaster Gen . raI out of , ·ny ,mone~.·s ·pa:~able or w'h 'ich
may· hereafter ~m_o pa.y.a ble to 't h,e Co~p.an.y or the paym.e nt m~J 1J . e' fore .. · aa
a ,d ebt due_to, Her Maj 1:ty witb fiuH cos •. of so:i t .ait the- diBCRtion of the Poetmaster
·G enera·1 Provi.ded b.owever th . t ·t he, pa;yment "hy th · ·C-ompa.D,;;v of ., ·., sums. of' money
r( by ·way of. penal tie _) ~-ball ~ot in any toan·ner prejudice th.e :r ight ,o f the_Poetm. · .ter
Gener. I to trea.~ the fl ilnre ( 1f a·n y) on ·t;bo parj; o'f the. Company to p-ro -.1.d . a p,mper·
vessel er to perform any· v0;yag · .t o·r within the ·t · me for tihe t'ime, beiog ap,p o.inted
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fu,r tb.e _performa~n ce thereof as. · breach of · hi.e A areemeot..
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49. .J .Il no,t i,ces, or di · otio.as wbi,c h the Postu,1 . ster Ge-n
otbera_am hereby ~nth()ti · · ,o giv·e 'lo f:h,e c ·o mpany their offieei:9 servaints. or·agent1
,o ther than.· uy~ot1ce,o f termi:oatioo.rofth1 Contract ID.sy · _t "r h . op ·o , ef Nie Pu tftla8ter
a~nts or ,ot11.·.rs, -~ither. be deliv~red to ~he. mae.t er of any of tbe
~ne~al ~i1 offie
I o:r. ,o1,b.er oaice.r. ,o r . ,a,ent of the Company m. the ,eh · r ge or· mana~mrui t of
,N l·d ve
~n~ · . -~1 e_ml!l-oved in th~ pe.r1?~man_c ,o f fhie A,;-re_e~ent or Je~t .f'lllr tll.e ~~in~u, _· t ,
heir· o8ioo o:r noo,s e -o r bu u1e , 1n Lo.ndon or a.u y <.-tiler place .a nd an_y ·u ot1ee.e.or d1recf;1oue: so.given or· [eft alt_all .J>e _bi.m li : . ~n ·t_b~ Compa'fl\Y Provided. al. a~ a t:h:a,t any
not.ice of temtina.t :1on of ihi s Uon~t sh.all be :e er·ved on t.he Compauy 1iheir eDic._..m
aervan_s or agents ,a t th 1.r offi.,ce Ot' l ·s koo,w·n o,ffi.c . i:n. ~n.do ...
., ,51L 'Th.e_Com~a11 , abal' not ass.~~ lmderlet or d'i · po~,~•f t1!ile Agroom_~t or any part
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tbereo-f w!lthoo.t I h,e co ,sent of U1e .Poa master· Ge:neral s1g1:n6t.i-d n1 ·w :r~t1ng 11Dd . r l:us
Ii.and or· nnde:r the han<l e.f tlu, ,Secre,ary or one.of the,. AMiat n·t Secretaries of the
Poat. Of&oo and in ease, of lb£ rs ame (H" &'DY part thel@o"f beirn g · ssi .. cd underl.e t ·O.r
otbenrise ,d.is,pose.d of o.r ,o:f an .· gre_·, or h ·bitna·mbreach. of 't his, ·.£rreeme-n t •O~ an7·
e.o,vt.raa·n t matter o · th iug h@'tci n_. •,o ont . ,u1ed. on. tlie p•a:r t o.f ··h . Co1upany 1h .i r· o.f lcem
age.n ts o·r servants a.n.d .rhether there be-o:r be not y ~ualty ,o r s11m. of m.o ney pay-
abL h,::. he, Coal'p8D)'" ·f o-r .· ··I! ' bre ·' ~ it •~au L ' la £6.r for fb ' P:o tmasteT rGe rp·ra I if'
he e.baU think fi. t ( and. notwit-h standtl!lg the:r . ·m ay ·o r .ma}' not~h : .· ,e _bee D. a11r¥ form r
b,r eac'h ,o f this.Co,ntrao.t,)r by w.r i ting u nd, ·r his ha:n d or o nde r th · hand oft hf'- Seefftaey
or one o:f ·t he Aasistan t. S e~,e taries. of t.h:. Poat omee 't -0 det ;:nni u _ ·t hi.s A.;grooo ·. ot
witbou.t_any previens. notice io-tbe Co1-up.·ny rft•r ,,eir agent& nor. ebaU t~e Company
'he,,e:u 'i"tle.d ·to · y CODlrpensation. in • .spee'1 of e ch d,e ternu.n at inn .a.11d 9. ,e; 1 det ·rmin,.. .
ation sbll not ,d fpr~ve. !be Poatmas_,ter •Ge,n eral of' any 1igbt o-r r ~edy t0 whieh:.h.e
·w ould otherwJ.&e lbe ·. tttled. by naao:u ,o f r&ueh breach or any pr!lo•r breach of thie
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51m Ir ,a t any time, d nng the eon t;inuanc . of tbie Agreeir _nit or after 'the d terrmiD-·
•tiou. thre reof ,a ny 4m.pnte. 8haH arise bet w,e.-en the pa rti _ hereto or t;h i r ,tJeeeu.on.
reapeeti · .ly eoneemi , g any breach or alleged breach, by o.r on tbe p rt of the ,c om~ny of~lde~em ent ,o r the ~u .; ci__ ncyo1a~y-~~ch lire· eh toj nst~t ·1he.P~f,1n.~tel'
,G eneral in pot·mn an ,e nd to t:be um or ,oonee.n:10. . th . ,a mount ,o,f eou ·1d~rat1-o·n te·
be pald to or allow d by the Comp.any aa the easer may· be for such altered se-r,i,o. :· as
he•r,e in before, ht ·t ·11a·t beba'l f ·m.e nti onoo ,o r concerning any of th · oovena~ts m_at■tieM or
'i h.i ogs herein. oont.a,in,ed. o:r i_u an1wise :rie.l ·• i'D' ·.'th.eNto. and , otwitbstand ing·t e po'w er
:h e~-i n c&n.t a,ined to,,deternl'(.o.e t _b is, A;reeme·u t and. any ,exe~!1t1.ou or atte.m:p~_e.x:e~
,c o.t1on of ,e ach ·p ower sncb dispute shan. be ierred to, ·t wo arb1.t m·to:rs O· e ·t o be chffi!eD
f-rom time ·t o time 'h y the P: .· ·tm.a ster 0eoer l and the e •t ber by tb.e Company and if
t1uch arb.i trators. ebould t 'UJ tim • or t:~mes not ~ io th .· matter or quation 1efened to them 1·11e- e ~obqq,;ei,tion ~n diifereuoe ahall_Do ft!fe·fll'e.d. by them to ao umpi.re
te ·be chosen by ,such &llhi.ttatom_ before they· p ~ d with the iefe·renee to them ~•·
tiler joint and. conc-nrrent .a ...am ,o f tne said arbi'traton ,or the, separate award of die
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BEL-A TIONS BE_.tWE£N LABOR AND C.lPl~:. lL.
•id, umpire when tbe-aaid arbitratom c nnot agree eball be binding ,a nd concl'oai.v e
upon both patti ·
~2. ~ny aabm i•ioo to arbi'tratioo io pnnuan.ee to this_Apeemeut may he 111ade a
role of any of Her _Majesty' -co,n.rts,o f reoord p,uno t to the statute in that cue :made,
an,,l provided, on the &J!phcation of eitber ·p arty•
. 53. l'o ·p u~aoc~ of ~e J!?O'r isione c_.on.t~Df:dl_ i!' ~~_o Act of ParHa!fJen·t p~~ in the
22nd.1~ar 0f the re1p el King Geollfe the 1: bin!, mt toled i,.Ao Aet tor n&~1n1n_g an~y.
"Peraoa ooneemed 111 any c ·o n,t racL Comm1ss1go ·O•r A.g:reemen,t made f,or. the Pnbhe
,~ Service from bein · · elected. or Bitting andl votiLog · 8 a Member of ihe Be1ua of
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of the H ,o uae o,r ,c om
ODS
sb3ll be admitted to au,· ehare or
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J>u:t of lh,~s, A;pe~men~ or_·t o any benefit to, arise them.fr-om coutrary tG, the ·tJ-o,e i:ntent
and. mno111.g or,·. he. .-id ,e t-
54~ Tbi~, agreement s'ball not -~ 'b inding- until it 'h M ~n upon the T: ·hle, o,f ~
Holl.Ile of Com:monsfor o~e .m onth w _.· tho11·t d1aa,pprovaJ uuless 1,t be p,r e,v iouly approved
'by a :resolut1011 of ·t h.~ eaid Honse or ,c om moo&
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56.. And 1•tly_for · he due1·and faithful per.fo,r manee of all and ai'u plar the co-v e·n suts
eondlt1on1 pro,·i.aoee clau - , arti.c les aod ~greements herembe,f ere coo ained. ·w hich
on 't he part,-and bob If of' the eaid Cempany are or o·~ ght to be obiened ,·• rfonoed
faltilh,;d and ke ·,t th.a said C.om.p aoy do hereb,J bind 'tliemselves, and, tbei r tiacceseors
unto, ,o:or ,S ov-e roign LadJ -th,e Qnee·n in the .s um o,f ,4$,tH)(H. oi:f lawf1i.l mone.y o.,f the
United Kingdom to be paid. to,,o ur ubl LBdy the Quee11 Heir heirs an,d e.,u eee880n, by
. ay of' ati p~atetl.,o r OSCEll'mH1ed dam=-gee.hereby agreed upon be.tweeu the Postoiu.1eter
General aitd tho Coi:o.1pany' ., ease of the faUum oo t.hG part of tht'- Ce,mp ·n y in the
cine oxeeu.ttoo of tbi9. Conit raet o·r any part 'thereof~.
__ ln ,wi~n~ _·w hecreof_~:he_ ~ai,d ._ Sp,t,neer Q.orupto,o. Cave?J,dis~ Mar,g~is of Harting~n
H-e r ,MaJes ,,,, P~W1,te~ Gen ~al hatb _her,e unto ee·t his baud ,a.ndl seal and the, ,s aul
,P euiunlar and Oti~D.tal. Steam. Navi,gati.o-n Cwnp1u1~v .b ve ._ aused, their· ccn11mo n 8&al.
to be h.enunto, affixed the day and year ti.I'd a,b ove Wl'.i .t teu~
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'T BlC D1VlDESD CLAUS& ..
Report ,o f ·,lt1 Poatma1.ler Q,-e,al.,.
PO&T 0FP1CR, 20 ,Jtdy 1870;;
M· .· LoHDS: By the 1. ,· e of the eontrac:t, con,c luded. wit.b th Penioanla.r audOriental_Sjt eam.Navig:~t~on(~o:mpany ~ , the 19th ,o~ ove.m't1er t~i, :f or ·t ~e Eas~ Jndi_a, Ch'ina,,
and Japa~ .M ' .d ' ~rvau::e, (l~ whiie ' ' copy !~·!' e·~ el~., ~h-~ ,1n1b11d1 to be paid,to 't
Company is set ,do·w_n._ a,t 400,000t a, year, with a 8t1pula'tioo, on ·t e one baud, · bafi,
. lleuev·e r the a ,- ,r 1 in.c o,m e of the, C '<HDi . ny fr-om aJI · ~ure d .
o.t ad ·. it of the
pa,y·we:ot el a,di.vidend t?-''~a per· ceu·t... on t. "e c~·p,i~al mp~,oy(!~' 'tbt1 }JU.hei<ly abaH be jn-·
e1,e ,a sed by eo, mneb1 ,sobJeeti, ho,we er, to a hm1t of .UJO,tMJOlt .,.1s mqun·ed to .m k ,e
'DP aucb a divide1nl ,; a~:u:I,. on the other, that , -benever the in,co:me is.au, "'cien,'t to allow a, dividend · ceediu . ,a per ,e en't.. ttO, be declared, the ,Com.pao7 ,eball pa:, t.o tho
Pos.t1 ,uter Gener.al ,on.e-f<nuth of "tbe e •cea.,~
·
Any hope ,o f be-n e6.l in.g' ·b.y _t_ -i~. _
1 ,st pro,vieo hae, J: mgret t-o AJ1 been. uecesurily
abando,n 1•d; a.'Dd, :m ore 't ,_an. tlns, 1t bas fell'" so1110 time..appeared th at tbe D partm.eni
weuld probabl,Y' be called upon ro eay a eum mom, 'ne -ly app,roach'iug, the m.u:imo.01
G1~NERAL
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tbs.a t11e mi o u:onm an1ouu·t of s,u bsidy.•
i:o fa .t~ for t.be fourteen months mHled _the .31st of .Hareh 1869,. ·payment at, the luU
rate ,o f ,5001,0001,I. a year, is admi ct dly d. _a to the C1o mpan_y , ,e v . · i·f certain claims
w bhib tbe De·p artnie.nt hae. sati up., a°'re dec.jjdell in its f~ vour~
•Ow i°m). , ·t o 1:11tageation ,o f t -r.ade, ,a nd ·lio se, eru eom·p etition 6D t.be part ,o,f the ·F nneh.
Ma.i I, Pa,ok-e t C,o mpany7 the fi , ,a nci ·1. 'POBi ·io,H ~f the Peuin ·. hll', · d 0ri ·. 'tal Co p ny1
einee. the ,ccn1!•ract ·w,a eoteredl into., bas no~ ~ -1:l so_tlourishio,g·as ·w as autici:pate -:,
in1d th.e ape1u Oct"' Qf tb~ S~1ez Can~l, 'tbe eucee~a, of b'ICh w,a s ~ J DJO meana oonsul~rnd
,c ert aiu ~ 11 l8b7;\as ,eti n forit_ller d 1sturh - d th,eJr pioapeete by tbe,eucoun.gei__11eu t it bas,
gi veo t_o British and. 0th.e r· ahip o,w ne,m to oowpete with the Company for the ooo.v eyanee of cargo.
.
'
It ir trn.e · hat, the, ~contract has, eeve . I years to run, and, that a C'o m1pan:, eo w,e ll
mau agec~-~ancl 80 p,r odeut as, ~be _P~nin&"'Ular an( Orien:t:a l s~ ·_m Nav. i,~a:tiiOD -~om·p·l!DJ'
~ n o , )1ket to )e1t a~,y oppoi:'0:n1ty ,o.f . eove~~.gth~r·p os:ttioo ese.···pe. S,ti_H; tak.i1
n,g.
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tbe must favour,.ble ·. 1,e w ,o f tl1e1r, ·rospe.cts, I th:i n k lt . on Id be over aan. u1oe to e · . ·
peen tb:~ t th.e horee _vib_icb _en entertained w·ben t·be pres.e·n t oon·tmctwasconcladed..
are, l Ul[e ly to be .r e ill i· ed.
To ,e oa'h]e1tbe De:p art·m ent to uoo·r ta " · what,pa:y ment eh,oul'd be made, i,t was :nee,..
ary ,, as rs ti p ulated by tbE, oo,n tr.act.,, that :i t;9 ofticeq shon ld .ioepee·t the hooks of the
Compa,n y, anti ·t his ilr1 ,p · tion has, given rise 'to oomp'licated ,queatione,withr.eer.ect ·to,
proft_te. ~erived_from ine.11tai·n,ce=; ·t o 'the mo~tle :i n W'h1oh tbe ain-o unts, 1et ap ,rt ft,r· de- ,
'p reci at1.on are,_ t-0
.ap,pJ 1.e d ;: and to_ ·t.h~ nghti of the Company ..to h1cr.eue their geu,emll reserve fUDd,. wb.1.ch ere descr1bed. eomewhat al leogt\h m the .nclo .d. oor.m~
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141
RELATION S BETWEEN LA.BOB. AND CAPITAL.
1
apondenee, .a nd. tba settlement et· ..hi~h,,, by ·dbHratien1 the mode appoin·t ed 'b,J the
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,eo.~tl'ac·t , would .i nv,o lve .s erious delay,..
Ubder these eiftamst&nces I took ad·v • ntage of aa interview· which I ha,d meentlr
with a ,d eputation.ef dHectoq of the Company to ln'timate to the e.hair.ma0i that if h'.8,ras dea1roos of ·m aking a, co"Dtraet on a ft . ed buie. and. coo.Id see hie w·a,y to pmpoae.
one·, ?he adopti~n o,f w~dch I &hou 1.4 ~ ,j astined 1~ re_co•m~nend ingit I would oo~tdde r it.Tina 111,ggest1O0 'bav1.Qg been acted upon, n~got1at1on1 .h a?e ta.k en ·p laee, wh~.c b have
1i88QJ:ted in.·t he enel,osed_lfemo,r andom pm ponog · b ·s i, :fo::r a new OODtraet, whieh will
Dot o.~ly ~~t.J.e. ·t ,~ eouitUct.i , g ·l 'iew.1 of ibe t.•o pa·rtiea oo tb.e _severa. que&tione. mieed 1,
'bu.t w.d l d.e term.1oe ano-ther ·p oint or 1:,rreat Jm·p ortan~. me th1 Dep rtment; and one
whir.Ji ~st ~t a ,rery~ ea.~ly ~date .have ~u b,, o~ght forw·a ~:, -'Yi~ .1.·t be p,riee to,be P_"aid
for ·_ubst1tuting m ·•! sen1ce_bet~~•-A.lezan.dna andl Brandi·m m:r tb.e pretJEmt serv.i ea bet -en Alex -nd·n a .a ud M ,r ae·1Hes..
,. oo gJvi.n g.1 o.fflcient notiee.. ·t o
The Company are willi.u'i'i, poo,v:ided they are a&l.l owed_
mu.b ar . ·ad 4isem barll 1·h e heavJr portion of tbe l udi;au~ ,& e., ·m ails · · t Liverpool in•~ad ~f at _Soa~hampro~, t4>~eeep~uo~fhe ~~tof Ap~l .1869' a eommu~_·~ arment ,o f
450,,0001.. a J •e&I' ; nib paiJ meot to inclnde a woo ly .I1 ·. · to aod. r-rom Bn od.uu, as NOB
u t;.he tunnel througb.-M oni Cenus ,i i, completed, aud. atrangemonte. can be made for
aentliug: the .m ails hy tha·t ronte .
.
Tbb1 will probably 'be hefore.1t'he eu.d ef ne· ·t y,ear~
. '~ he ·um.,o f 450:,000.l.. w·_n also in~huJ.e ,c-aUi ,g· at Pen_ og, for ·w hi•e h eeniee an addition al ·p ayment of 4,0001. a rea·r · i8 ·n ow mad-., t,0 the Oom·p agy ~
~ookiug at aU the.,ei r,c umetanees e.f t.he f. , a . the ,dilti.c a lty-of'esti.'°"ating the probable ·f uture reooip,t a or 'the Con:1pauy for· ·t'.be eon eya·oce ot· pasBeiD1g en and. ~ •o, an,d,
1,it the nn,c erta1nty which .f!1ue1t attenid. a refereuce ·t o a!hlt~tian~ on points .i n _dispute.
I haveeome to the eonclns1,o n, after peuwnal comm~uueat1on wi,th ·t he Reeeilver ,u4
A.ceou:ot- - t Gen F,aJ,, by wbo:01. the booke, of the Company h.ave been ,ex ,mine.:1, and.
wi t-'b the Poet, Oflic _ ,c ·unael., ~ ho b·, ppeo · ·t o have a g;re- t . CaciH t,7 in. dcalin,c ..it'h
1iptt'8, tllat tbA·,o,:ffi r is one w·h ieh :is favourabl,e,·to. the1Depar~eo:tJ an~l that it.a ac·ee_p tonce ill relieve t..oth the Depart-me t .· ,d the Cowpaoy fro ·. mue'h. embarr.aumcnt~
I de no·t be 1tate, tllerefore., to noomm.e nd your LOl'dPbipe to eaneti.on such aeceptanoo,, and tio a•rt'b oriee m,e, t,o, ,e nter ··. to a ne _. Oootrae.t1aceo11dingly.
·
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{S.i go,ed.)
The LoKDS Covv1ss1o ou ov TBB TRBAS'lBY, I& fe.. I&
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WEST INDIA AND BRAZIL IIAJLS..
lllhln to an Onln- of tire H9110ara.bl• Ti·• - Houe ef Co.nut1n3,, daW 29 J•u 1868t, far
Cop.ie,8 , , ef a Con:troof. d'a.te.d tA_e •2tii.f• dalJ of' Jtt~e lf.,&t:J.,, e·11tered i,iw. hlrNlm t,A,e l~oali.-teadi~ tieir Contraet1
•oster ·Gtmeral an,d' I.lee Ro.t1a I .Mq.i'l. 8tmm Packet,
.Jw t·Ae Co,RNJa ~ · of tAe m t 11.ttfia ,ana Brazil Maila ~for a jurdta PtJnlld :·" '•..4 d,
·
·
-·
qf Conoponde.nce rel_a ffng tA:ento. ''
T11B.1.sonY C11.Ave RS, 29 Jrn leGS.. ·G·. Seu.ma-Bo om.
(AB extra allo -ance besides div·dend..)
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to
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. , pnuWCQ,
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,O·U le O_.
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(Commen,c,e a·t ·p age _1.. _~ repOirt o·f Comn~i sioners appointed by P.arUament,ton:amine the ,c amp _ y' .. booke,, and. with tho m '~sid:· . co Id not pa,f a di v·i d. nd. The1
~po~t reoo~me·n ded a ,g uarantee of' a.di videod. to the Company b:y ·the1Go·yernw,e nt Ol'
th.e lm.e. could not g,o on~ 1
1
,tJo:n of ,Can.trael,. dat«l 2616. Ju1'8 1'388, MlerM ,·a·to kl•MJt ·1·le. PoaffNit·t«r Ot1teral
a tJ ,the B.o.gal' Mai~ 81tMM Paeif;I.· 1 Co■pa"! e.$1e11ili:■g thrir Contract. for tltf! co,rr-Pg..
,o·,~~ ,o f the Weal India ad Brazil. Ma·Ha /fll" a fu-rt,l cr Pwiocf; wi'&A, Ut,, Xr:ean.r..ll inu t'e t.Aer•n..
No. 'I...
·
C'OPY o• CoNTJtA.~.
IBDlA AND B ,R,&ZIL M,1JIJJ
m ~e ·t bis, '2 6th day of June in. the1,year 1868: be·t w ~ n ·t lle•
.Mc.n,t Nci._b,Je James Duk.a of llu:otnHte u· r M. ajesty's. P:ostmas.t,e r General of t'lie oue
part ruut the R,o yal Mail ,S.t eam Packe·t Compa·o y ( ber-eina fter called the C.o,m pan,y )
0 f the· ,ot.her part:·. Wbemas by ·r1icle~ ,o f A , . ·. me•d~ u d,ei- Seal ,i _a:.ted t~ 13t , day o·f J1dr l ~ •
Contract was en tiered. ·to be.t ween. tile Postma&ter Geneml anid.·t bo -Com:p.any (heJ'e:m~
ARTICLES OP _ GB -R ~ _· .
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·t 48
BELA.TIONB BET·W EEN LA.BOB. AND C.A PITAL.,
1
after :ref'enea'. to,.u the1Hrazil Co,n tract) for· lhe cen·veyanc.e b'y the Ce p_DJ of _
Her·
llaJ sty•, Maile -tit ween s,n1:~bampton and Rio de. J .an;eiro .a u~ - ueuo-.~yrea and'. for
the perfonnaoce ,o f other aerv1oea upon the te:rme ·therm.n me. ·ti.oned and 1t waa by the
·el· no . in recital provided t ha.t the ,s aid Con:t mct ebonld commence on the _l a
d Ji of J .a ntuu:v l8'34 and. should eon ·inue in force for· &eVen years and, then dete.r min•
iftlle · ·ostmDJa~r General should. by writing· under his ba'Dd er ·nnd. r the hand of the
Secretary ,o r ooe.of' ,_ he,A68i6 · · t Seer taries,of t he.Post 0ftice for t~b& ti.roe being ·b an
given to the Company er· it ·t he Company is.ho . bl,h · · · . gi v·e n. to t:be _J?os~ ..1t&te_r' Gen.e ral
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'44•ealen · a·r .montli8" .vrevioltB :noti,co iB writing t'bat,a.ueh ,q ontract should RO det,.er111ine
1> _t .ii f ne1tb r■ p - r1\J ttho, 'Jd .i ve a~y 1sncb. n.0 1100 1·· at .. cli Contra.c .· al!ould eoot mu ··•
1
i 1 1orce ev,e n aft ~:r ·t.be saiid te:rm of seveo years uotd the expi:r tion. of a. 24 calendar·
month&" uoti,c o in. wri ing aforeeaid... iv•oo · t : .. y ·~ime by . ither of the pa1tiee.tl1erete
to t:be other of them ; ... n d whe1·eM, by artic ee ef agreement; under · . ·1 a ted t -· e 22nd
d,a y ,o f Jruy 1863 . OoDtT.aet aa n·~ d into betw ~en the said P'°st,nuwter GeJJ." · and
1·b - Company ( be~inafi ~r referred ·t o as t·be . _· at India Contra. :t) for tbe oo:o v . yance
J> - the Oowpa~y of ~ .e·r ll~esty~e M.~ile betw~ Sont,ba!Dpton anti tbe I laa.d of Bl
T 'homas and. di . ers other plae.ee 11n tbe Weet .Indies, .a nd :tor th.- per.forman.ce of et-her·
.· -..rvj.ees upon. · lie term1_theran .m entioned and it waa h,y tb~ rtiel _ now· iu nolt.al
.Jlro,v ided that. tbe aaid Con.tract ,e bould oo,mmence on. ·t b.e 1 _t day o·. J a uar7 1,864 and'..
1ho.,nld co,u tiuoe in forne for Bl'. years ,1:a;:od lb.en d.e tennine lif the ·ostmaater Geoend
~1 oo]d 'h y ri t.iu . under bie band <ir. undel[' tli.e hand of th .· · . ret ry 0 ,o ne
the
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As~i~~Dt Se
. ' cretarie&r oft e Post
for· the time .•. iog·ba·v;- r~~~ y 11. ~tl!e Compan7
or tf the Compa.~y s.h oul ave g1ve·n. to the Poatinaa·t,e:r O e . :!,4. · · ·L ndar montlul
p,r c : .ious notice, io w·.r ltto,g that sucb C'o t,a~t should. so det.erm·i ne hurt ~f neither tb1
Po. .tm ter· Gener.al nor the C·o mpauy bou1.d lla.v e ·~l"ven .a.ny uch. ..ohee th t eacla
Curl' - a; ebonld c-ont1nue. 1·0 force even afte1:r t·he 831d term of six years uot l the ex~
pirat:iou ,o,l a 24 c l~ndar ._ ~nth 'noti.ce in l!rit·o•.: . as aforesaid ifven at ~o.y time , ·fter
tb e ,e,· ·p·i atitm. of the fim fi . e yea.h t from_the 31at day of· December Ull3 by eitb.,e r of
tbe parties tbereta to the, other of tbe·m: Aud. ,vhereas the 1u~iuci_p I and e ntral paekel,
e.ta _ion and · · bUsb ra_t of the Oow:pauy- in tb.e West I d~es in. con~~·c1tion wi . · tha
1aet..hlentiooed ,c o·n ct ·i· at p,rfli- pt .a:t the Iel 11d . n,1 Port of St. Thomas an,I i't 11,
.a pprebended that, b ·.· re son of the un·h eaJthioese of the aid island or tbe port t.'henof
it may beeome deair.bl to .ren1ov~ the sai.,d ~ 'tr.al st ··m.o ~ and , . t _, H hme.ni to wme
o·t her I landl and port: And wh. . as, it has been a1:ree.d be·tw.·e en t h e parties hemi.
th~t t'b · uid Co, tractse~aU be modified in. m nner be C•iD:a ·ter · ppear··:og: : _crnv beN
:rresen. · .'l,·itn,ess: And 1t is hereby.a.g r ed 111.d d,e clared betweoo ud hythepart1.es,herfJN
t'- foi -OYf$ i(tbat is to• .):·
1.. With ft! .poo't. to each of the h ..naubefom .mentio,:o.oo. Contracts it i8 he·reb,y agreed.
au t! deela1t■ed:.. t bat the eame shall oo tin oe i u Co.re.a 11.D.t il the, 3l&t d y ,o f Dece her 1874
incln i.ve and. ·s ha I · ·h en d,et.enui ne i.f the Postmaster: Gener.a l shall by w·ntin.g nn.d er
his ·1:ra aiuds or und.- r tlie b - nd of · he seer tary or. one,of 'the aali.etan t 1seer.e,t ariea ·fo · tb•
time being of th F,ost Otliee have,given to the Company 0.r if the iC·ompa.uy·Ihaµ haft
.g iven to the Po-tm _ ter G .·ner, 1 24 calendar months' notice in writing that euch Oon~ra.c·t uaH ao detenn iue but, if ·o j:the(f party flball have given aniy Yu.c h .n .o tice ,au.ell
C.ontr~ct shall con·t ioue 'i.n f~·roo ~fter· tbe ♦-3~s da:y·of ~e · ~r 1'814 u.nt1_l ·U1e ex-P,ir.
t1oi0 or a , 24 calendar ·m on h. , no ice JP wn·t mg · ·.s a.f oreaaJd gtven ,· t any · one by e1 their
of he parties hereto to th .• u her of them..
2. ff '\ . y y ...ar d1 riug th.e ,c outinu· ac o,f th , hereu oofore-mentio,n ed Contraeta or·
either of them t:hc en tin., fa u<i .arising from ·the subsidiesor sulmidy paya:mtle tlleren:nder to
~b . .,Compan11 , trow tr.a _· e reecijit&,~MD d by the.(:~~p uy ~-, eo. ~eeti•o .di ·. etl . or
1ndi _ectlJ~~1tb v,o yage ,mad .· or ebi.~ ' dep6~·8or es.t a bluah'men ts used 1o t-be, rfol'Dlauce
ef oc.h Coatracta or Cot\ tJ.'.a c t u ,d t rom 1u.teP ·· . - o any 11 . ,.rvoo. fo.n,d w h1e -. sllall ~
cru after tbe date ef these .Pr · ~n·ts aud fro m aoy balau.;e tb t ..may ha,,-e bteu l.e ft
v ··1 bl . for fotu:rie d.ividsnda ft r h . lae1 de 1.a.Fatioo of ,a, diVJt .e nd. shall .a fter de,dueting worki °'. e .p . - in.c urred •4 nring e ,c it , .- ea1~ i eluding t e llS ial allowance
f~r d. pr,eciation and rep m,and _·renew·a l e eeed t.'h_e , tun u _ · : -·iry fo:r b pa_menl
o,f a di,rihnd of .~. pe·r ce t. on the capital emp,).oyed. by the Co --1p· D.J int . pe form.aooo of the eaid Co tracts er Contract then a.nd iH. ev~:ry Yuc.b ea · .· the Co.mpau3·shall
p _·y. · .o ·thf.11 Postm .t ,o r· G,e era _tilUll equ if ·t.o ooe-h _·I f of ,_ u.eh e~e , 3, For ~h · purposes of th · las _ prooecJing clan ·. ·t he capital employed by the •Comp · ·n. - in the perfo,1'1~ nee •Of the her.eili.'b efore ,ru.ention . . Co·n traots.sh - U be taken to be
the anD1. ef 900,0VO l...
4.. The ·C ompany ehaU be a·t lliber'ti tto, i clud ·. i · their" . orkmo.,g .x.pen s any 1Sll1111.
not exceeding tbe yearly 11im o'f ~,.000 l , ,( w·hethe r :the s.ullt sba] · be,_ aetµally :p aia or
m~lY 11e·t apa~ a& an huHmr~nc f,ind) i o ,~~pe~t o.t' th insurance ef' ebip · em pJo,-e4
·u ndeir the b re·iu before ment; oned Contr eta and tbe Postmaa .r Gen.e - I 8b H not be
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ui an:, ,e.aae .......
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any 1neoraace,
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apart · conformity WI' ·.h the provisions. of th ie el· ,uee,.
~ Dmi J.g the eonti·n·(! ~ · ee 0•f the ea,id.Comtraettl or eitb r ,o f tbem ·the Cu.mp y shall
keep thei'r· aceounta, a.nd boo . ,o f aeeo :nt, .and tatemeD.18 o,f eapital _venue and o,x...
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CAP'ITAL
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pendit,nre in ·t he,·:rnamuer i;q which 'the said book _.aeoounts. and etat-emen:t1 a·re ke:p t at
the ,da.t e of tb ·..· p,r,eseuta.
6 .. Th,-e P·o stma te-r Gene:ra.l and his ef&oors and. a.gen.t s sh r at aU reasonab_e. 'ti1ne•
llav·,e acee - . t-0 t he hook1 of acooun,·t and aeooo.ots of t'b .. Oomp · ·y in 1.be same manner
and to the san1 extent as ii f be and they ·w ere di.rectors of tbe Company a_nd. if at a:1y
1..i m,e .a ny q uem1<l111:s s·.b:all a·r ise bet·w - o t be Post ma ter General or h1e offiet"rs and
~ots _and .·t he:_ on pnnJ: · · to ·t h,e atDon+nt. ('if .an~ ) to b ·· ll' ·i~ to, t.he Pos'h naster
General und r tile. 1iu·ccedu1g c au .. s o :r th,, contra.et soeb q _,. t1en h.aU be refer-red
lo, a-rb.itraUon in m11uner provided b the 27th, claP , orf'theWea.t I · ~a Coutm ·.
1·~ 0 'u. ~r· as won .· JJ. eOJ:J\ ~u.i entJy .m ay b@· after tbe 1st day ,o f pril iu ,.. ery rear'
unng Uie ,co,nt~u uance ,o f the &dcl eon f,m ts or ~ i 1 her of tlb em ,·n · ccount sba n he
· · ade out ot' th " auuin:nt. ( ~.f uy} pa.fable tot.he PostnlaB'ite:r Ge.ne·r al nnd•r this ,Cou
~raet and s11ch au1ouut, ( if a.1 y) 11:thaU b ,t lede,e ted fro,11:u t 'h e ue.z.; q 11,arte•r ly payment
410.e to the Oo1upany~
P:~ The Co ·pauy s all n po,n, the reqoieitiio,n of t,h c Poshuaster ·G eoen,I a·t any lime
iur~'ll, ~ t e cout ·i11u1q,c e of the West lnd i _Contra.cf; ,emov · .thei'r ·p rin,ci pal an.d ce·o t:ral
id to
pae,k et stati,001and. •e'. ta.b Us:buu·nt from mo~ iis.la,n. · -nd po ,t of St~ Thomas a.fi
,1n,eh ,ot·b er ·i sland and, po,1·t as. t'h : ,o,stmaeter Geo ral ,&ball dir,e ct · ·nd , haU effect au4
,eom1.1l ·t _ uch re111uv,a l ·witl.Ji- · re ·• nabl time after the Pos.tmas,t r· General shall
av~ g.hT·e n them no~ce ,·1u . -riti.u g rcquiri:1D,g the'm ao t,o- ilo, and auy sucb :oo,t ice m y
he u n ii. ·r th. h u di eitl1er of tho .P o una.s,t er Ge, era! or of th,e . see:retary· or ,one ,o f the
IMistant ,·ec1e·t11r1e1, oft. ,.e : ·me b ing of t'he Pest om .·.-~
of sueb removal i·t sball be )awful for the .Postmaster Gen,eml to
9§ In, ·t he e·" ·
make eoch. :r:e · -~ua.·b le od··o,cat-ions of' t:ba ,s ervic -· _ · ·g : .d to be p!tfonned bf th
West In~ is Con~act. as b _sh.all e-o,:nsi,tl,er n ,,1 sary or ex . ed·i eut hy sn ,b nunov,a a ,d
the CompaiilJ ab ,H o be ,e'f!Mf.i tled to a.u:y -m-ncr · . d su1J:&i4y or ·r rem~ueration m ,_ peet
,if a·o y nch moditi,eation.. P.ro•v ided .a lway t ' at t,he Postmaate,r General shaU. by .u.o tice ,s igned 111 aforesaid give at le st ·."·. ~e eal@nd&r ruo,n th '.' notice tot.be Oump~ y of
&D,J' m ,c h intended, modifieati,o o as aforesaid. Provided, also t:bat if the Co,m pany and
,he P _:tm , ·t er GeneraJ shan differ as ·t,o the naeonable.ne ae ,o f :a uy·1/ueh proposed m.od. .
~cation sne dUfe.renoo haU be ,s ettled ·b y a·r h1tr.: itioo in m ·u ,e r1nuvided h · tlle 27th
,. iauae of tba said ,C ontract.
l D~ If •~Y such ·r emoval eba.U ·t ake place d urib: ·t he, ,e ontinuan . e of the said. Ooni-ncur .a ny ad d:iti• ~oaI outlay of
iract aoi if hy reason thereof' e , aid-,Ciompa,n J s1
cap~-ta1 tb,e Poat·mas.t er General bal 1 after s11ch , - 'moval .s hal, ha .-e la.k en place gra·~·t
tile the eai,,d. Contn,c t u ,1fball
lo· the iCon1p.any eneh fiirtJi.e r e:1te,nsioo o-f the term
affolr\d. them a _·r air ,oompensathiu1 ior rme:h ou.t lay an.d in oaee of diffeMaoo the tMm _of
■neh e;xtended Cont_raet, ah.all be M:ttled 'b.. arbitration in the manner·prov ided. by the
·
17th clause of -tbe said Contrac.t .
In witne111 wher -of the said P:ost1maete.r Geueral bath hereunto eet, hie band and
auJ an4 the said Royal Ma~l Steam .P acket Company have caused their CfJmmoo 88al
·1,o ·h e hereunto a·f lised. the, day and yea·r ,._ t . ·oove ·w ritten ..
MONTROSE. [P,ttffMASTB B GENEJtM."8 1S UL]
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8'i,g ned aealed and delivered bJ' the within-named James Doke of Montllll& Her
Ka;esty'a Peatmuter General in ·t 'be presence 0,f 1
.J .. L. Dv PLA'T. TAYLOR,
Prirat,e 6.,ere.la.rf, Gfflffal Put. 0 ~
De ,e om~tin , · · _ of the .. it'h i:n-natn,e d Royal Mail Steam Paaet Company ·w u
Jaue.n nte ,affixed in th.e presence uf_
,.. [ CoMPANT'a 1SE ·Ia]
-!~ !f. . LLoYD~ ~
Zt BROOD~ .8oliedar'a. JJtpart . en:t,, ,G·,menz1I Post· OJlk,e, Loadoa.
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Let a copy of the above Co,n trae.t a·ntI of t·~e 00ln8pOndffl! loo relating tbereto,,wlalcb
mffleiently se·t a, fort,b the groun.,ds upon w'bicb t'h ir Lordships .have ·nthonfJed the
Cent.raet, be laid upon tbe Table of tlhe Bouse of' Commo,ns~
. ~fonn :Po _tmas.t er _~aneral of the date when the Con-traet, &.,e. m 'laid n.pon the
Ta'b,l e,,or t-' - Hoiu,e of C.O·m mo:u,.
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,BELATIO.NS, BE'I:WE£lf L ABOB AND CAPITAL.
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con· 01' co·m sro•~RlfCB
:R ELAnn ~o THE E ' T&NDIKG OP TRB ·OORT.RACTS Ol'
'T UB DOYAL, MAIL 6,T BA- . P.1.,c m co P 'A NY FUR THE CORVETANC.B OP TBB WBS.-T
INl>IA AND B,BAZU. MA1L8, ._ OBA, PUHTBEK PEJDO,D,.
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TAe. &tntor; to 4e. Bayal.MaU Steam Packd' ComJ7Gny to t&e Ba:retaf1} to tAie. ~
BOTAL
ILuL
ST&A.H PA C
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55, IIOORG.A'.TE,-STREET,
.Lo.ftdo:n·:t E 0 .., 20 l\lo,t,em,l,er l~.
T COMPilY~
S.1a:. ·HeT Ma.jesty'a fJovenment have-:,· ·w ith,o nt doubt, become aw,am of the.Mriou
dbiast:er a d con . -uen·t heavy Joe., _·whieh has befallen tbis Com,p any t,. ·
,g h tile,
resu its o:£' the r-eceuli burri.cane at a'Ddl near St.,Th.oou1a...
Full particulars of tius eveiJt h&.'·. not yet, reached the Diroo-t oq, of this, Coiup -ny,
b . t t"hey l.,,ipw ·t hat four a'hipl', w b ich o.ri.giooHy· cost 181,!>26 l, have b ·--- 11, wree],'td,i
and. th_ .'t 't wo, io th,en :bav, been dls11u1Stoo, · and ·a lar: · e am.01Jnt, of' e,'~
bnildin:g1,
.a nd other proper1:y in 'the harbour ,a,nd ou .bore d,e stm:,ed..
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To replace P·FOJMJrly these v ~ and prcopeny,, an. expen,d i'tnre of not much i..,.
tbau. 2&0,000 t w i H be rer11uis ;t.,e.
- .'Tlie Co1lrt a,£ Dtmetors ha,_ o. bad nn,d er their m,o st auxious eo,n elderation th · oonna
which, Tin~r these cir-cu'llUltaueee, they on.,P-lit, ·1,ot,h in the i tere8't oft'he p blic rvice B'Dd ef 'their rrop_riehu·y·,, to tak~ '11 ~Dd. _it will ~ _manitea,t to Her M.sj1es.ty~a GoY...
emm:e:o t that,, w1 b C~ntrae re only h ,v1og two i( aud, to a emal1e:r· ex tentt 1.b:ree) J·e.am
to nn,. it _'ODld be uu . ,:ise in t'be ,Oourlli to :i ncur.a largeen.pital~-~.P,Ddit-o:re,,e .peehilly
in tho way ,o f· constrncti,e n ,o f new eb'ip&., S, .c.h ne,,w ·vesse]s, oould not be, plaoe.:I ea
:_II~-atation for at ·1east a J 'e ar 't o oome, and tbu migbt 01117 b6 ,e mp·lo,y,e d for a Uttla
moN th ·,o l2 m.o uth .
Tbe oidy ,o oulS(\ thorelore, available fo,r the Di:rectcus, in y·i e·w of the t -rm ~uation.
ef the Jmse.n t Cou·! ract,,·w ould be t'h e, expensive and 1u1satittfactory·one of '°'lnu1ering
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veu,e]e, 'for ·t he Bf rv1c.e~
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u·:der· these cireamstanooe; and feeU.nd that 't-h a ,eervere, blow w hic'h has faUe,n on •
mool
C,ompany di·s tin,g u· sbed -for th@, punctualit,y of its serriee, a.ud 1te readio - .•to
the , i,&hee of Ber Majes,t y's ,G overnment at all times, ~il give i1t · '. vali.,d claim for
eoosi"der:at:ion, the, ,c ourt, ~,f DirnecroI'8 bave1resolved to aak .H er Majeat3'·s Goverttmeni
~ ~et the Comp.a11y a ft ve year's ex tenSJon of i trt present_
Cont·raet,, ·i ., , •., to t'h ~-,en,.4
,o f lt:17'2 certain,, and ~henot,forwardl to ho at t~o yea.rs' notice~ For a portion of 'the
1 en j,ee this wou1d be, 01dy foe r y,e anl e. ·. tension, but ·t he D1 .- etom co,11001,·e that i·I
·._ oold W, m,on CO'l!li'v·e ient 't o the,,Governrnent aud. to the Co,.m.p,any t:hat the eontm.ei
for the · 'hnile,,service ebould bee'°me termio.a ble, Himnltaneou!dy., I am. desired 't o add 1hat th,e Court of Dirooton have fel 1t, onw h eftation in makiD.I '
tb.'iS pr,o,p ~l in · ·e . .· of th,a pr sent state o! '~ e C'o~1.pa oy'e i neome: _~1·,hou,gb,,d11ring
the Ame·n can ·· · -r, aud, before 't b co,m . et1t1.on of the h1~Wy subs1dued French Compa~y, .t.bie, Comp., a~y e.~med. au:ffi.,e ie~ ~ to y i~id _,a -, _tis.·f.aet',o ry d.. 'i vide.· , d for its -. ebat►
h •o lden, the, ,eaae has beeu 'V ery ~dfeNnt d1tr.1ng the last two ,,.ea-- Io 1~,. the
~ a t e _p11otit after w:ritiu1:: off tbe, customary per ce.n ta,g e for d -pnei.a tion and.
~D8U1'-~D~z was OD~J '79,,689 t 7 8. ~ d,.! ,a nd t~e €l~vidend waaJI wmt'h 't he oo,gnizanoo_or
the. Hh ue·a o)d.ere, 1nc:te&St'd. by b 1n. 1.ng o 1 ·. s a id ·p art of a f n4 c . ated 't o ·p mvid•
against: IOM,on t~e _,s al ~,f ol~~ ship _ In ~ho fi!'8t :h.al f ,o f tb.e curreD! year ~b.~ p~ti.ta
Wl-"'m enly l;ffl, t 5 , . 5 .4., and ,a simdar ,o perat1on was , ft'eet d 1n : 1,i ef d1V1deo.llt a
reduction also, being made, in the, amount ·w ritt -n ,o ff fo,, , d ,i ,r _eiatiou~ 'T he income
. of the uubeeqnent quart r, viz.,.11·a ~ to SeptP-mher' last,. uowa, a ,s t,i ll furtberredu.c tion
of ~ooi.p~tet Bo't tb.e direoton ·t ., at ~h,a t -su~b a geue~al ,,i m. pr!>vemeut 1n. comniercial
strain. will en.oceed to tbe pre&eD't to ,d, ·pressunm II M wdl, 1f a ti.·_ e ·. ears' eJ..teD8lon be
eem11ed to tho Company, .&Jl"ord. 't.o the orop,r iet. y the pro .poot o. a. moderate ·tie of
p~ti't.
"
, In ·o rd r ~ :h at, th.e ii: eta'tem.eot,_ of' the present *position e.-f the .ComJ>aDY :m ay 'be ve~
fied, be Dn:oot-ors. will be mo ·t ha·ppy to eubqnt t,h e boo-ks to the Gove,mmen:t on t.ho
llll.d tntf!,,o(l i ng ·t ha.t the .in ve tilgatiou i made in,view of an e•·
ion of the eon trdeta.
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(Signed)
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151
BELATION.S BETWEEN LABOR ..L.'1D CAPITAL.
·.. ·JE'W
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·T h,e CHA IDIA.N presented the. followi'ng co.mmnuieation. fro-m ,coL
.D ex.t er A!!•Hawkin~, whieh. ·w as read and ordered to be ptinted with the
tes;timony :
111 BROAD·WAY, NEW 'Y ORI, _
Septe·mlHJr lO·i 1883.
Tio the honorable 86'.na:ts Oommitt.ee on; .EduMtion an(l' Labo·r :
In oom·p,lian.ce with your mvitat.ion I submit th.e follo·w ing fact.a. and
views ·:.
Every· person wbo performs a reasonabl-e amoun·t of daily labor during the period. that Ile. is-competent to . ork is e:n.tit1 etl, as, th.e fauits of
that, labor, to .a reasonable support for lite for himself and for ··h ose . ho
cannot labor tha·t are-depen:de:nt upon him. Those who can. labor ·b ut.
won't are. not entitled to anysupportat all out o.f the fruits of'the labor
of tbeir- 'fl Dows•.
Whene·v er the natural conditions in a count-cy are such t'hat i't will
not produce ,his aup,p ort wb.· _n1inwlligeotly ~orked ·t ba · raet may safe'ly
be taken as a hint from Provid.en,ee to emigrate. Bot whene¥ ·r the laW: .,
or 1&00-ial or,g aui,sm in a . -011n·t ry ·is. -uob. that fhe'ir l.egitimaw. effect is, to
prevent an.y portion of society· fro,m obtaining such support from suc'b
labor it is clear ·p roof that the law or social organiMm s.hJul,tl ·be. modi ..
fied,, . n the end tbey . ·. ~ m.od.i.fied always in sneh cases, either peace-,
ab,l y and. wisely., t.hroo._
g h such investigations as.your co,·mmit.too. m ma·k . .
·ing1 or bl.indl .· and by vi.o leo~
·T he :face of ·th · •e arth i, not a dead level; river •are not,of·equalsize;
t ir e . s, ajr e not of .a uni.form height or bi:gn~ss, and men a;re no ex.cept1on
to tbis u.-oi.ver,sal la·w of 1Ja.tu.r, ; tb,ey dimer i·n capaeity, pby,sical a.n,d in•
tellecto,tl. U1a,d er any .J1nst. and equal laws some ·mus.t , bet!.o,m. and. will
become rieh and othem ·p oor·, but the poorest, to ·t be. extent that they
are · . i.Uin.g to , _ork, a·r e ,e ntitlerl to food, clothing, shette·r , · nd -e d.u,cation-a li,-..eHbood; and the wealth.1es:t., so far a-" ·t bey •COmpl).. with. the
Jaws,, are ,e ntitl .rl to tb.e. full nn.d oomple.te protection ·_··nd enjoym~ot .o f
all their pos·se.ssions.
The function of bum.an la,w,s, in this. re.g.ard is fr1lly performed. when
tbe.y enable the i11di,~idual, "'f hem· 'k@M the ·b e~t use of his faculties,, to
·_. . ;.. th·e·, same
- ·, . pro
.. -n
nrt" ·. ·,· f; th· ·..· .
,1• th.· is
··. wor.11u,
. .·, 11~11 1n
- - -acquire au·d.·~euJoy
re1,v _,100 o _ e go " _s o
lation to his fellow.s , that bis fat011ltie~ and the use he mak•&J. of them
bear to those of .h:is, fellow~. All ·b e, ond this i .- out .·ide of 'the function
of' human laws,. , ·h nece sarlly .· ·ves the £ollest and wid.e s·t scope for
'thP legi thnate ex .·rei ~:e of .i.ndi.-, idual pow . rs of aequi ition, po ;session,
~nJoym,e-nt, au d disp08ition.
·
Thirty· , ·ea1•,s a 11:o I mad,e s careful ,s tutly oft.be t\ond1.tio:n. of labo,r i'D
the-va,rious oonotri.· s of' Europe and of t'hP- Briti.s h Kingdom.. .Food
·t here was no uh.ea.per tha.n at ·t ba;t tim,e, in thi.s co11utry.. Ulot.h'ing was
about thirt~ 1,.- r cent chea.per. Shelfer was abou·t .twenty. .five per cemt•
.cheaper. B,n t w ·ge'. __ ,e re not more · b _n oo -.. Jialf wb· -t the¥ ·were here,,
a,nd t-he-educ.at.ion o.f ·t be laborer was far below that of t-bosie i.n our ·then.
free State,~. (Orir slave labor was far more i,gn.o rant tha , ·t beir labor.)
Bnt a sooial orga,nism exist -d t1 er,e, 'tbe ofti~,p ring of the feudal sys
tem,, that im.posed b·· a.v.:v ·burde.0 - upon la.bor, aod :marle it abnormaHy
·d iffl.c nlt for I"· bor ·t o itm·p rov ·_ ,. ita,,c ondition; bence ·"- I bor·orgaoiz ___ti,o ns" ~
or ' liu_nious" a-od .a _:,oeial wi,.r be ·w·een. these 0irgani.zat1ons on the: o,ne
side .au.,d capital and the ruUn.g classes, 011 the other.
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152
RELATJ,ON'S
n --TWEEN
LABOR A "·n CAPrrAL.
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·T he oond1.tio of free .l:abor in th-i's eoo.-try then w --,
the wbo·Ie,
nearly :wfoe as good as tbe·r e., The g~eat emigration from Europe iD
tb.,e las,t thirty y · ars, a;nd t'he addition iu tba·t , period o,f so -e. thir tJ p r ·
cent, from the min _s to the . took o·f silver and go](l mon,.y in the
~orld,. bas rai ~d th~-rate of ·w ages, all ove·r Europe. Bot the-price of
food, of c.]ottnng and of , elter ha ru1en. there a·tm.o t equaUy· as mu.c h,.
10, that th · condition. of tl1 e ·1a·b or r th -re t , oot much im11,r oved in t-:
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three item _. Bot in tbe education of the 1abor~r t,bere it bas, _pea:tly
_·· d.v.a need. England, Sootlaud.,, I ._- land, Wales, Fran.ceand. taly tlteo
did not ~o.g n·ize tbe d.n _y of the property i·n _h·e S,tate, w·b,oeve·r owned
'the prope . .• -, to provid.e fort.be ednoK1' ion of· al.I chil.d ren i.n the .tate,
no matt :r to whom th - chdd:ren be]onged. Those oountri . s do now
each recogniz,-- this d:oty,. and ba - e p:rovid.ed by· law fo,r i.t s _performance,_; a din he inter ~-t ot"soci ty lb..y require ,e v . ry child to be ed-·
neat· d at least i11 toe e]e1nenta-ry b'ra.oc'bes. of both knowledge and
'indo ·try. This Ila - , improl"'ed and is fast improving and e1.e _ating tbe
chari - - te·r ahd condition of labor in th.ose countries.
Tb va t imuli -"ration to tbi . country of tbe last thirty year,s w,onld
hav,e tended ·o ·r ednee wag -· < and lower the condition. of lab8-r he-re,
had ·n ot tb _ ad.d ition of 90,000 miles to our rail way, . jiu tl1at time
opened up, as it we-r e, a ne· . con 1rent to labor, nearl._ a larg A8
the whole of E1nro11e; and. bad no-t th.- stimulus of a p.r.otective ta-riff'
10 the last twenty· _.,.ears, by giving our own m --~-ket t.o, our ,own. peo,p1e
in•tead of to Enrop :·ans, dot1bled th .-protluc.t of oorma;nufactureri ,
T.bese. two th·, gs. ba;T ~ in t'b is oou·n.try a~s -._ whole .ma-de . he de and
for labor keep pace with the -_op1Jly,, 'tho-ugh 1ncreased from.ab·road no,w
at ·the rate of th.ree-~quarte·rs, of a m~·uion ·migrants per year. The di --tribotion b _- means ·fthe railro.a ds of ·t his increase from. without of two
thousand a day s11eedily dra·ws off any tem1,orary exce_s of laborer in
any locality.
--- ided 'b y tbe above fa -o __ bl _J> e-0,n .d ition·•-, the pri eof abo.r tu_this,country instead. of decliniug tor 1,he la· ,t; thirty sears has, ·as
a whole, steadil,y advanced;. wbUe: the price ofnearlye,; ery thio1gt, at the
laber;er n-e eds to consume or to n -e has, ,owingto th.e ,develop-went
m1acb "nery and bom ·_ tnan.u.fac·-ore: , steadily d. cl:ined. Scaroo-t · . n.y'"'
thing except rum .and tobacr·_ · Ji,a,s increased in p·r-ice; a ;.· d the laborer
i8 oo tbe. whole better oft'" witbou·_ tbese than with tbe.m.. .· ood products
,a re c · . eaper · n tbri' country than in Great Britaio,,Frnnce and German.)t,.
for ,of our snrplus we export to tb,em nearly fl: e :hundred million. dol~
l,a rs' orth per year. Shoes and hats are cheaper, ·,n d also olothbig, of
all kind,s\, except th _:· finer and hi b .er grades, which ar-e not necessa.
ries, b·o.t Iuxu·ri -. Shelter is d ,e arer, ·becan . ,e· w nquire u.el\l bou a
for at least two- ·miJJiou1e of poopl:- per .e r, and n:ine·teeo,-·t wentieths of
tb,e.,cost of a b-ou·se ·1s 10 ,som -- form labor ;. anti the pri, . of labor is s,t ill.
o -. the ave:rag, , about tlonble ~hat 'i t i.s in G!43a.t Britian, Fi:an.c e, G-e r..
m__·n:_ 1, and Italy.. Th.e inv·e,.ti,gat1ons made tb1 -• year by m:·r. Porter·and
reported from w,e ek to, week in th · Tr.bone dem,o n -,trate thi .•
Jt.'fol.Jo·w· from the abov:e· facts, that the relations of labor to capital
_·r e more favorable·to laborin tbi . co11ntry·on, the hole than i anyo he~ •.
lo many oountri,e a ]aborer, disc 1arged without a recommendation
or e -rtmca.t e,, a1 not get employment fr-om a otbe:r capitalist.
here
&Drf:h i ·.. th ·... rule tb ·. re _- onl.d. -- : -u1 to be.-- prop _-;;e:cy i·n aillo";ing- l .bor
uni,0,111~ 'to d.1.ct. te to some extent w·ho should be discharged and who,em:p 1oyed. But wb:en, as, in tbi eonntry, eap-1 tal oes, not possess, ,or- ,e
cise any S'Dch. prero,! !ative, such dictations a!re injinrious to 1abor. In·
som<:, countries no one ca-o @.x erci -e a trad.e till he bas,served an appr,entiee hip ,; nd obtained his ee.rtifieate :a s jo rn,eym _·n or·m -te:r-wo:r k -ao..
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REL,.'TIONS BETWEEN LABOR .AHD CAPITAL.
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'In those 1oonotr1e~ there would seem. to 'be 1so:m1e re.ason iu allowing
trade , onio,n s to dictate tbe nu,mber of· apprentices, so a , not to ba.ve
the tntd es ,overo,owded ; bo.t :in. thi · ooun~ry a: ·
no such apprenticeahi p or certificl ._te i . . reg nired.. The only e.·ffee·t , then, ·b.·. ·r e of trades
onions dic'tati ,g the number of apprenti,ctm a mechanic may L'lke and
i etroc·t ". to lo·w er· t.he grad · · -utl num. -·. r of our ,s killed workmP.n and
~u,e e the a·bility of ·1abor· to compete.with eap,i tal and t-0 gain a li,;;eli1
a,, role
. ood,.
The trades un·,on • we.re er . p·roper .· n.d nece·· sary in Europe under
a ,s tate uf , ociety , ery diffi rent from ours But in this OODD'try tl1 ry
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are iutroduci g and oforeing for-ei.gn and de potic rules and . gul~-'i.ous
not in harmony with the coullitlou of , ·tfairs here, aHd tha·t a1mou.u t often
to s ·pos1~i' e tyranny 0¥-,e r labor·; and, besi_d e , th y depri,v · t-be la-
laborer of .a tlel'C ntage of h1 · e·arning .•.
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I ·ill state an in -taoce; The . t1mbeJ land coal mine,r . a few ye.a rs ago
were indueecl to join one of the _ ,o rgani zations, and ea.ch one ·paid a
portion of hi'~ wages into it , _r.easory~ Th -· 10.anag,e.rs., w- o were not.
them l es 'l aborers, ,s electing .a t.ime. ·.. be.o the eompanies bad ·n tered
into l ·r,ge eontracts ·to deli· er coa,l, o:rdered the .miners. to 1strik.e uu·leM
an. increase of' 30 per ,cent~ on their w :,: .s ·w as ,g ranted.. To •a,~e a
greater J'os front. breach of ,o ontracts the 001npauies sielded to tbi- _extorit ion; but a _oon .a.8 ·t ·e ir cont.r oot; ·. - ere -11.ed th .. y··e xplained · o tbt·~
m,anage~ tlJ · t tbe price must go bauk to tbe former ra.t-e oo a, certain
da.y or the wines would be closed., fo,r ev ·ry ton. m.i ued at ·t he exto·r tionate rate.'bronght a Joss. When tbeflay a
ed ·t~e . ,manag rsord red
the w·.hole three thou.-~__ nd miners t.o st1·ik.~-, . ·nd.J"or nearly five .m onths
lib .· y d ·i d not mine a to . of coal, and t :h ey and th•· ir families we· .· - ~
duiced to the reatest straits for their dail.v bread. Then tbe ·manag,ers
allow·• d tben• to ,·.· o to work at the old rate all the tun.e o1rer•e d bJ tbe
companies~ B ,e re '1 a,s a positive 1m.m,ediat.e.lo .,. 'to the la'borer1S·of i1ea1·ly
a miHion dollars, of w-agt.lS, ,a. lar."'e los : to the capitalist , and a dnviug
aw~,y of busint-- 8 to other ,e.oal regions which will d.~
labor for·
many·.years in tha·t. regio.o,. thos brin,g ing a. large fntore lo.ss upon tilese
laborers.
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'T.bis is bot one of many simi'lar cases tllat I ,could name. Labor
anions freQ.·o e,n tly dem.and t'h at the.len.g th of a da3 'a . ·. ,o rk and the price
of it ·houl.d J)oth be re.gola.ted by .tatu.t~. _ This is. the sam.e thing in
principle as n.-in=- b,y :law the p ice the laborer -hoold pay for e·v erything .h e co,nsum.,es ,o r uses,, a·od ·t b,e.,q uanti·~y. he tdionld eonsnme or use
each day·, wi'tbont, ally regard to his ability or n.eeds. Such tbiug,.· are
o,,t-side of and beyond -the sphere an(l pro,i.n ce of stat t.e law. Tb(}:y
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are, and, from the •.e y i he·mnt n _tore,o ··t-hiu,gs, must be, regola·led ·b,y
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supply aiocl d•e manll, •·.· nd no,t ~y ·..ta:tute _ To regulate both t.' . ·.-. len,g th
aod price or quan·tity aod price of a day's work bJ statute is as .absurd
oo-enact that w,· ter
should ,o f ib:,, own acoord :r uu up hffl. One laborer' may be able to •d o twice as much. work in a.day· as.another, To
FeHtrict all to the saw .aimount (wh ·ch, is. necess rily tha.t of th lea~t
eftiei,en.t),, a, some oft -,ese orgaoizationsdo,is as. absnrd. as to gi ·. e ouly'
the. same. amount o.f food. for a, meal and cloth for a suit to a gi ; t a · 'i~
required for a pig·m y. It i · atte·m pting to be . · ise - tba- the Creat.flr•
.Labor or.,,anizatiou,.· in harm.ooy ·. ith our fr-ee institutions. and social.
CODdi. ·i ons may do m'ltch good; bu· thosethus fir ·mported fror~ · uroit ~
as
are quite a ·.• m.uch out ofp]ace here as wo:old be nrope ·n gov,eJ·nmenta
an,d metl11odw.: of admiuistra.tioo, They mean w·eu., bu.t lack k .no · ledge
of American affairs, a·n d fie - io· ·t itntions. Toe c·b ief cause of s,trike ·. ~ .·
ignorance ,on the part o,:f laborer:_. of' 'th.e .m utual exigencies o:f capital
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RELATIONS BETWEEN .LABOR. AND· ·CAPITAL.
.and labor. Capital requires, safety and a rea:s onable 'increase.; labor~
'41t1ires constant e.m ploym.e nt at rea :on.able wages and su:re payment. .I t
is ior t'be iut,eres.t of t be laborer· that hiH employer, ·wbetlJ.er a individual or a co111orat:ion, should ha~•e am·p le cap,1 ~ ,a nd that thi.s.ca1utal
should i.11cr-ease from ye.al'· to l'"',e ar from -tho prooeeds of the bus:ine -& ,
'Ibis, secures sure. pay and stead,y ·e·mploymetit, .· . ud a proS,Jlf!c.t of· a rise
o,f' wages. If t ,e, ca pi t;aJ is, not aru pl,e the pa:3rm, ' n t ,is, It neert .· ''i D . ; aud i.-f
the: bn~fness •does not increase the ca1dtal, ·wages cannot,ris ·~; in fae&
·t hey will fall or th. · ·c apital ,-iH seek other ao.~l mo:re JJ~ofitabl.e in~
vest tneut Tbe stl.'ike~~ so~etim~, a·. ' .a t Pit~s·burg'h a fe· J~,ears a.go,
·d ._stroy cap.ital :; this is. _riUing the_,goo~e ,hat other .hie co old 1 r·
tu~ golden eag fo,r them,,and re alts.from ignorance of th ·. wutnal ilot-er,e t aod fi ·.latious of capital .ancl labor~ Edue-at . d labor would never, t,o
raise wa~.es, re"o-1-t to the deatruction of capital,, anJ mo-re than a hu.o,gr1 ,cr-owd wou)d destroy food in order to incr-ease their supply of i.t,..
The bett:er llFO~i .rion .m ade by laiw in .E urope for the oui~e:rsal educa-
tion of labor there is steadily but .surely i•uttiog labor here at a disad-·
vantage. lf w,e do ·o,t, tSOO'D bes.t~-r ourselies,,, the superior trainiing
. . . t 'h·e1.F·
. peopI,e .-11
"'JI I,ea:~e~o rs.10
. •b
+ ""t"'1,~
th y are no . giving
1l - ,.e oompe,1,
e race,
·. itl• , hem. baodica,i1ped with a bac'k load. of igo.oran.ce.
11teJli.~e:nce 10
toe lnho~ -r ·i stodiuJ •e ~senti :d to a high produ.e ti.~-- capacity~ Former'lv,
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wl1ur,e. Jittle or no ma(~bin.erv or s~:i,e ntific proce ~-·:_e ~.were used.,. it wa . not.
v.;,e must. enable ou:~ ·1?bo,r t ,o k ·· P· abreast t .f ~be pro_g11e ~s of' the world.,
or·our ,country ·will ra·11 to the rea.r~ Igoo,rance bt'gets ignorance, and.iti
1s a . Ion~, slow-, · _od a:infnl ,. .tro,g gle to ri s . • from i·t whe · ke ·. •t dow11 by
•eorn:1ietitiou wir·h fo-rt'ig.n. 1ut ·•JH,genee. T.he labor unions and er·ends of
'labo.r tbrou.,g boot this oountry see this ; and th y a·r-e making a wise . nd
j1u~t de.w and upon the Go,,.ernmen·t for laws t~at 1-ball seeure to,,ever-J
ebi.ld in this countr.. ·. a good elemeuta-ry education. Careful expeJ.imeo~
and ,e xa·o1in ._ tioo. a.nd comparison of resulb;. has dem,o nstrated 1:h at a
good elementary education., such. as s·hou·ld be • tren to ev~y you.th in.
the. free co,mmon school, add·s 50 per een.t.. o•n th.e ·•v,erag ·, to his. ,ca...
pacit)l as a ·m,ere pro·doctive m.ac.biue o,..-er what it would he if be re ..
mained iUi'temte. .P ,a;n.peris;m and crime .add bea; .v bunlen!s ·t o labor,
:as t-be pauper1s m ·n~,t _be su:p,p orted aod c i_me detected and pnnished,.
and .society protected against- c:nm1na.ls; .a ll at t-he expeDse. of labor or
the fmU s of labor. The ill.it rat -s 'i'n this coun -,y· produce nine time&
as, many criminals aod thirty ti.mes as many paupe-rs,. according to tkeir
n1rn1 her, a do t · literates~
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In the_United StaJe:s. tbe·!8 we·re,_:aooorcli.ng to the cen ·us of 1880,
4,404·,~·l62 illit ~rate .adults.. -be miu1.mum1annua,i .Joss to t.he couutry OIi.
the labor _of t.bese.by reason of tht:ir illiteracy is not..le •-·A than ,8aO ,~ h,
or 81~10.,2'19,1100,; or mor · than tw:i ce a.s much as the &11,nual cost of our
whole .y · tem ot" pnblte edocation in the e.ntire oountcy ~
If special p,rov1s,ion i :, not made ·b y law to 1secure ,gen,era.1 education,
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t-ie arm.Y or-ignorance
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. . . u1.crease
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1 t o .a-·v,e m1.1l
..11a·11··.ons
th
_-·1.s g1ga:o
·w h'" 111. .b:y 1°\fllo
_om1 ,~
of human b.~·ing~; enoug·h .uo· only to JJros,trate 1ndustrJ·i.n this,,co11.utrr,
but to destroy in met, if not in nam · , all f1:ee go,ve·r n.m-e n·t . ~ . ee. gov;..
erurnent .a nd ign.o rant citizens. ·~ire uo, mor:e. compatible 'than fin!: an,d
water. One or the ot'ber m·ost cease to be.. . f free gove-rnu1ent takes,
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. h l t.; b·. o t·. 1.·t· ·. 1.t d'" enliJ"'S
, .... ·too
h_ OJJ'd, ,o r·- J~ 1.11teraey
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season 1• t:· ean ex t..1ngu1s
',~ ~ Io
, . ng
it will it elf be tum bled into tbe gmv·e.
·• L bor is in fa; or of free gov,er-01 - e:ot · _·n d prosp _:rity; hence it demands
·u ni.v,e r -al ed·ocati.oo.. AH iutelligen·t ca·pital join -! this demand. The
-. · ationat Trea ury is. ov :tftow·iug; tlie Nation _l Go,v ernment is, respo.nsi bl.~ for precipi·t a ting o pob ::'h e •c onn trJ-four milli,o ns ,o.f illitel-ate ei.tizen&
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8e]f~preeervatioo. is the first law of ,g overnm.en.t s a .• weJ.I aa of nat11:re.
Ther,e. caonO't be a reasonabl~ doubt o't"' the 1>ow·e r of' tbe Goverintr1 .· r1t to
ap·p,ro,p riate •be.moo.·· y from the .N ational Treasury su8icient to•elim1in.ate
this illireracy .a nd to -s oper,'ise it .. pro1le.r exr1enditure.
Labor tbQSrm.ade; intelligent will harmonize i.ts~lf with ca·pital, and
Q,m·
a
w1'·;"',~L"!l\e
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~-. 3D"t"'
_ 4 · .a
~ ·.e·nf.
· ..:i 00 ai
...·p
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~ · ,·ab•. 11.1.0,
. ly
. •· ;a;nd 1\0!...!liPP.~
r~~,.,,:iR-11v t.·o
inaio.tain its just rights. It is my •delibe·r ate jndgmen·t tha.t ,y-our honorable. c1Jmi'mittee eould
not do a . ·iser thing th an to gi \"e t"on.r i .n fluence to secure 'f1~on1 the
Natio.nal ,Government the demand of labor for o.ni v,ersal edueatio11 in
the elementary brau1cbes of' knowl,e dge. and iud.ustr,:y. After the nati.o n
. ..ask.ed~. , t·..b-en ,t·he. ,Sta
- -n- I be..a· .b
- .l.e to·. --preserv:e.
- · · · , supIi_as ..d one w..h a t 1s
·.· .· tea
_. w
port, a\n d enforce. o.01t,. .ersal ed.uea,tion.
.
Very respec.tfiully,.
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V .E WS OF A TRAIIP.
The. ·O HAIRKAN. I also J'>r seut a comm.uni.c ation from. an un'known
pe._- ·ou who signs himself '" A Tramp.'
Tbe. comm'l1nica.t ion was read as. tollo·w s :
~ nai o··
· . •
2lo tie
_ . 0.·rmgres:sw
. •. , ommi. ,..ree
GENT.LEM _E N: Your ta.sk of ii'nd.i ng out why laborers a1:e discontented. with the p,revailing couditiou of affairs will n.ot be CO'WJ'lleted
unt.il yon have .b eard from tbe des.pi erl aud ootla,w ed. indt\'. idua.l-tbe,
tr:am~ud RS o~e of ~t. clas ', and , · ,g eonioe native, ·w.bose 81~C~,~ ,ra
for ·t hree generations first b . beld tbe1sunsb.ine in thi ·. 001 _n.tr1, I ·voluo.teer my· servi00 as s w1.t n .·.· ·: opon tbb;, importau·t subject, ·well knowing
that you.r lofty b.ighnesses .ill not Jo,ver .you.1r (li nitJ as statesu,eu l~y·
ealliu~ upon a;ny of my cla.s'S u:11less they ha ·• e become millionaire ship
bnilder · or otherwise disguised tbem .el, es.
Now·, as one of th.e undisg 1i~ett tramps, I wi~l proceed, to inform ,y o,n
what,, in. my hllmble opinion, is t ,e secret yon have ,s et oot to,fintl wl1y
_hose who prodnoe everything ha.v·e nothing., an.d those who :tlrotluce
nothin.g have evecytbing~ This is the condition of affairs now Mtariug·
yon in th&u-face, and it 1s n:o use to beg· ,b e. q'l1estion in your i·~ v ·stiga.tion or in. your ·r eport. We a:re cons1h ln···1y told by tbe pre . s that there,
is no .re·medy for tb.e ·p resent condition,, which. is the so·Ul"Oe o.f thu diseoD'tent yon are · B,k in,g the wurk~ngm.an to ,ex1J,l ain t,o yon; that t;IJese
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great. contrasts of·conditio·n ·a mong men am eau,sed from. the ditlt•reut,e
i.n me·n's m.e ntal capaclties.. On the da.y that llr.. Gould ·m ade bis. trial
trip from Cramp's .:hipy.ard down the hlstoric IJelawa.re on bu;. 1500,UOO
steam-yacbt,. I bought, a 15~et>nt e.x.cursion ticket ftvm Pbiladel:1,hia.
to ·w ·i1m1.ngtoo, Deli, after w'h.ich outlay m,y total capital, "watered'
sl:ock" and all, was just 32 cent·~! As I sat out · ·1 100 t~at steawooa·t
doo.k a:n d cast m , ey,es fro
shore to s·1,ore,,, uotbing did .I s~e
p .r &-·
::i;:gi::t:v: r::sih:sof :b!':!~~~~!'~ t':::~i:~ 3:n:~~~
00
Th.e ·p ,i ous hypoor.i t,e d.oos,no go so much on tile bnna
theory, but maintains tibat the .e inequalities are due to ~rol""i·dt-"n~~, ~Tho•
distributes ·1s favors, to those most worthy·, and that it's hi. ,,b)y bias•
phemons to point to 'the gigantic detaultets, · · ho also bt,lieved thiB Frov•
~a.rl o,f Dudley.
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15 6
BELATIO . S BETWEEN LABOR .A N.D CAPI.TA.L.
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iden,e e illec·ry, and built a churob or run a Sunday sehool. ·B ot, gent'fem,e n, these theories w·on''t do; and th:e rising inteUi.gence of mankind
cond.e·mns tbem1, .and these ad·vocates are but mental dwarfs, I care not,
ho·w they s.t an.,d before the corum1:1.nitf,. whether·the;y make tbe laws, run
the railroads, or preach fbe sermons.. .
The most in't1e1ligent wri.ters ·u pon.social ,q ue,s,t ions do · ot attr•·bo.t e the
causes that prodnce tb,e discont,e nt w·hie·h yon cla-im to be inv,e stigating
to either of the a.bove theories,. 'b n - ista.te mos-t posi.ti vely that it l . the
1
system of cloin.g business which. i.s at fanlt.
ow., a system tbat prodncea .such a tondi.tion of affairs as we behold
·,· 1
in Great ·n ritain, where Jess t.han..so,ooo own the land, the s.o,n rce o-f ex. istence,. and · ,e.ss than .300,.000 are ·th"- :possessors.r0f the v.ast wealth there
amiaRsed., bas tbro . .n our Repu.blic into the difflcalties now eon.fronting
the ''t-ra.mp" and. th,e "' · tates:.man~"
It is estimated. that 'h ad tbe amoant, 816,. ·w hich old .· ,· illia·m. Penn
pa.id. the India s fo Penns3 l a:n "a 1n 'U~bi 'k s ,. b ad ~., .a nd b1!aiuke't :., been
pu.t _out at :interest:, and a-Jow·ed to remain, it would t0·da y equal the
wealt b. of the entire nit,e d ··.tates.. Thi~ syste- , is s, dl at. · .· or· , a; · d
Jlt-ld . fa·buJon.s ·r,es.ults. to ,"ueh meu as Va.udetbilt and. iibe bondholders,
the As,tors,I and. the la dlor<ls in 1reland.. In fact, it is the fulc:n un
which .M r Gou·Jd .· o glib]y refers to as hi . potctrr of increase,; I a.tn no
e·nemy to M'r~ Gould~; on th .. cont1·ary, I . ecy m.u ,cb admire. bis abilities;
but it's bia poirer of i:1re:r&ise· I am after~
:S:ow, ,gentlemen of tbe co·mmittee, with. .a·11 respect for· your' wisdom,
I wi-sb to SUg'.g e&t ·t hat w·h eo you are snfflciently am ·sed t the ,c onfo8i'on. a.mon.g· -the trade unionists abou·t tbse ma.th31·s, you go 'ha.e' · to
W asbiog'ton a·n d int:l'IOO'llee a 'bJ.11 to p _t t'ba-t ptH~er of ifi.crea8e on labor,.
and twt on ·t he results of· labor,. tbis ,S5,st.em has i.t ; and it is my ·oo·lief tllait 'tb·e statesman ·who a,eco .··plishes, this will e1e _ong be J)Oi.nted
to as ·t.be ema.n cipator of' the hu·ma.n. race fro:m a 1SS1S tem more vile than
human slav,er.r, a11d. wiH wjpe ont tbe a~snrd condition of affairs which
·will one. daJ produce its t,e rribl and d,e vastatiug re --ult.- .ju t so sore
aa the sun .shines,.unless attended to before it is too late. migh't point
o·u t the particulars cover -.·1, but it is unnecessary to d.o• so,. as yon on1
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der&taDd tb.e field cov·ere.d by· the po1oer of increase,,
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P. S. lo o,rcler that y,on m. y n,o t cond,e.m.n me as som · dnioken 0 ·1 1teast, _ will •1 'tha·t I have. a t;rad,e, and au1 tol.e rably industrioum . and ·
e,t ri,t ily so,be-r., lly ca· e does .,o t stand alone;, witness •the tel.e .raJJ:h
ope,aton w·bo,, in three w·,ee.ks' time,., were p11ope·r1S, or tramps, if· they
b.a1l the ·O OUl'age to cha.nge thei·r 1ocation, and · , .e other trades a,r e .~·l>0n,
t.he same with their .a:vera.g,e 'intelligeuce to back ·'he:m up,. And wben ,97·
per cent, of th ·. wea.Jth is i - the ha'l1d2i. of 3 1-ter. ceot of the popob1tioo,
wh,a t else can ·we ex1.~ . A·n i qn"r . i to what's th,e matter . "'ith the;
statesmen oif the tim1e.s wonl(l p ove h·i gllly ioter s·ting: ·t o 'the a,verage
Ame·rican abo11t no·w. Be b.~ . ·, va:ndered ,o nt 3tnoog the people to be
enlightened., au,l if he gets bis 'iHformatioo, w·ill. go back and vote an:d
act jost as before. H.i_tory will ha, e to repeat itself before the -law..
make. -· w·i]l · .hi o k ·. : ort·h w·bile to li8teu . o th,e c.1aoks.. The shi.P .b,uiJ.tJ ..
ing tr.a.imp should ·h a.,;e :i nformed you th.a . si1100 hiH. walk across, lHinois
the wbit)le aspect of' bu·.ines·s ha. . ··h ··nge<l.-, as it was. prior· to the a,ge 1
0f
Corporation , w·b ·u tbere was, sow,ethio,g· lil1:r ·. equal opportuni't.ies ;. but,
tbis is not the ease to-da1.v-.. · he ti · e that m .· · e· e~~
O'Q.ged.
in bu.sine, s
wit'h a iew· d.o llars, i ·. : gone, ibr a _:.y qdicate will immediate·I.Y wipe bim.
ou ; and I behe,·e th . e i!s, a coI"'Uer · u. ·t he. pea.nots and gom for bo,y s
alreatl)
,·erythiu,g must be cornered now~
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
15'7
BELATlOKS, BETWEEN LABOR AND CAPl'f,~
Tbe OBAIBKA.N,. I ,c an. only 1& ay that if any man of·th.e ·t ,i nd wants to
!,e, heard as a witness, he has only to ,app.l y to tbe committee to be al[.
lowed to,present Ilia idea8.
. ~
·T h.e eommi-t ee adjourned uutil to-morrow at lO o'clock ,a., m.
t. · r
· saay,,
..:1 .
~an"'_,._ 1·..'3-·• , 11000
.·· · ,, T'. _riti.
NEW YORK.
~_pKfffWT
ooo.
The eammi·ttee met ait lU o'clock a. ·m.,
I
LABOR IN THE 1S OU!1HWEST.
"ORN OAJ,.D,W EL'L 0.4.LO:OUN sworn an,d examined;i,
B,y the OHAIRllil:
QC1estion. ·w here d.o yon reside1---Answer. fn ,O hioo,t Oonnty, Arkan-
.
sas.
Q,. State. to the committee, if yoo please, whe·r e yo: . were born, of
what famil · connection you are;, and what ha .. e been your oppaT.,tunitiea,
for. lwooming acquainted. with the past and the ,p resent condition of ag ricultnml labor in the ,S outhern St ·tes..-A. I was bo,r n in Maren,g o
Conuty·,. Alabama. Hy fat.ber ·was a plante·r there before. tbe war.
Q., • :e was, a sou. of John O , Calhoun, 't he statesman.,~A. Be waa a
~on o · ·. ,- r .. John 0. Calhoun, of South ,Carolina.
Q~ Yon ar-e his,gmn ·· son, then ..-A;I Yes, sir; lam b.1s grandson• . _M7
fa't her wa.s ,Col. Andre· Pit Calhoun.. I wa,s reared in South Carolina. In 18M my· father remo,v ed his resid.ence from his plantations in
·.· -labamato Fort Hill, South Caro1ina, near Pendleton, where I was rai.sed .
I have been 'i,d,ent"fiP.d, with the. ag1ijicnlt11mt interest of the South from.
1ny earliest ~eool1eetio» ••, and ha·v e boon a practical ·CO'tton pla ter ~ny,sel'f ainee the war:, givin.·. 111y owo 11enooal atten·t·on t.o m-,y interest.s since
1869
1
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·Q. Wh,en di,d. you
Oarol1oa !--· .. . I .removed from,
Sooth Carolina to· Obicot Oonntj, A·r kansas., ~n 1&69.
Q,.. Until 1869 yon had been a resident of &o'bh C,, ·rolina 1-A. Yes,
.s1r..
Q.. And of conrse, ver~ . ta·mi.l iar 'W ith the ,c ond'i tion o:f things on the
Atlantic. coast-.. S,i .· 00: tb,a t time you have ·been. in the · issi .:.;i ppi ValJ.: :y t'- A .. Yes, sir; mye -perience as, aeottonp1anter .a ud wi't b the1ahor:. ei . of the Sooth i. oonilned, I .may say, almost entirely to the M·1ssi&,s ip·p1. Valley, for I left ,S ooth ,C arolina so soo·o afte r the war that, tllin,a,
had :hardly· shaped themsel'ves there so tlla:t 1 ,could for.m an accurate.
es.timate. of the-labor or the condition of affilin in. ,South Carolina or
on. the Atlant:ic coast,.,
_. The CH ·I JUI •N.. Not ·h aving bad. a ·p enoo 1 aeqnaintaoce '!ith llr..
t. i
Mmove. from South
..
-
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-Oalhonu, ,a od learning of b.i s rare opport,11ru•• ies. to give v · Jua·~1.e i . forWii!'li .o.-t1.,on
~ u.
.... - "D
a ,-· d_ o.·f b,1' "'s 'i:J)nGC!!A, . .Nncdl
.ILUGIJI
_. '.
•tA
v t· hA
~ commi.
. ~,
'.L~QQn no.
~ 1
... B t· hn c1'"'ty· I add-.
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llim a letter, calling atteution to the snbjeot-matter upon which we shonld
like info-rmatioo, and whic·h I ha.ti reason to -thiok he conld giv:e ns het-J
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ter than almost any one e:lse, i.ndieaiting certaio qo.e, ·t1o·ns w:bicb I ,would
like to have him 1:1re·p ared. to ao:sw·:.r , and ~ivin_g a ooar~u~ _reply,
-expr;essing a willingness to o;bllge the ,committee,. I have called. him be~
.for-e t11e committee, and will now read the. qoe8tions:
.
1st. ~hat is the. condition of the laborers "n your secti0in I
.
2d, u ·nder what system are the laborers in you·r section e·m ployed ·t
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
·
3d. Wb,e n hired. for ·w ag s .' hat is, paid f
4th. Wbat ,di lsi.on i , mad.e between labor and e.apii'tal of tb,eir Join:t
.
prod.uetion when yon , ork on. -s hares t
l'ith .. When :\"'OD rent what d.iv1,siou 1a made 'I
1
6,tb~ Bo,w· many hoo·r s do th-e ia'b oreri _ wo.rk ,
7th~ Under wba.t :Etyste·m do yon. work t
8th. Wb.at is the relation e-x isting between the plante.n and their
1
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_
en1pJQy,e ,
_
0th~ l\"'ba·, dan,ger is there of strikes t
lUtb. . .,ow· can fb interes.t, ,o f th.e la1bore.r.s of yonr section be best,
111bserved t
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Jt· ,y on ha ·e· prepared ans ers to the e q_u est-ious, ~ nd can giv y ·o ur
answe, ..· con ·ecnti·. ,·ely, ·· onld like y0i11 to,,do, so•.
Tho WJTNESS.. I , ave 11rep-a red, rep'I ·e ·· in orader· ·t hat I might sav·e tlle
,eom·m1ttee time. as well as. conde·n se my ideas.
Q. J., What is. the condilion of ·t be labore.r s in your secti·o.o.!-A. The·
h"·
.J.•
'" "' v
... ~ 1. ~lpJn.
.., t'h e 1ul8
.·1.t es, are
w1
·1~ura1··"' .B··- o t-.· iew
·. -·-a..1-1,e;y are agrie.u I"·
lab orers, 1n
emp:loyed.; t.he:Y >oon. beco,me ]and ow.n.ers or tenants. · our question,
tber etore, ·reduces itseJf to, · · ha"t, is th~ cond·i tion oil th.e _·n,e,zroos I I
s,h ould sa,y good, a.s compared with a few J 'e ar8 a.go,[ and improving .
Y,on must recolJeet that it, ba . . ,only bee.o 18 ~years, since. the. nPgroes
,e,o ·rged fvo1n slavers without a dollar and with no ed.n ea·tio.o,. and that
for JteneratioD ' . the3· bad. been ta.og"b·t to ~ly eo.tir-elJ upon. others for
l?uida ,ce · _nd support. They beeam ·, th.erefore·, at once the easy prey·
of t10 il:eropnlou . men,[who used t~,em :for their· ptnouaJ_3=:grandi,Zement,
we. re s ·hjected to e-,; ery e\'"·il loduence,. ancl did n.ot discover for yeam&
t-be impositions practicetl upon ·tbf!Dl, They w,ere iu.dolent,au.d ex.travaJ!U.nt.,. a·n d eager to boy Oil a, c~ dit everytbiu« the planter or_1nerc·h.an.-t
woultl sell th,em. The planter bad. oothin,,: eX:cept the land, whi,c.b, with
'tb.u crop to be grow, ,, was mortgaged genera.'11.y fo,r ad·v . · -ooa~ If he refn&t1d to indulge his Jabor -TS iu e·xtravarzant habits darin,.r tb.,e yea·r, ~y
crediting tbem for art1.cles not absolutely necessary, his action~w , ·. re-ga.rd~d as, good groo11d1_, fo,r _tb -m to quit wor:- ~., and there wer _ tho ~e
p.reiseut · ho were a·lways. ready to, use this, as an· a.r gument to a -r&;y the
DeArO ·. aga,inst-th.e prop,n ,eto ·.. Th'is, of ,course, den1ora·1ized the CO'U ·..
trJ" to ,a v,eTJ, ,great exie,ot, and it has: out,· been in the pas.t :few y ears
tbt· negro laborers 'have .r ealized tb · "r true eond.iti,on and gone to wort.
itb a v iew ,o f making a support jor th.em,sel.vea an · fam1lie& There
is xe·t m.n,eh room 'f or lmpro,·,r~,en ·, but, t-h ey will im,p rove just. aa th~y
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gain. ,e xperi,ence and becom,e aelf-rel.ian.t·..
'] nencea
• ft
t.,·1,oo an.d, th;·e e·VJ.-11
~
~ aft· er emanc1pa_
"' der1•ng th
' ., n.s1·
1 1u·
-~eir con d· .1"'t· 1on
"'0
· o whiub th,e y h··· .·e been. subjected, ev·e n t.he small advaoeemeo't they
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ha \"e. 1· ade &.eeUIS sorp,rising"
Q~ 2'. Under· what ~sttmie are the laborers i' · our section em-ployed f-A .. The,r e ar,e tbr, e methods· we hire fo r w.ages,_ for a part
)
of the cu~op., or· we re·o.t.
Q. 3. Wbe- hired tor waaes what is paid !-A. Wlaen hired b:y· 't he
month ·we pay unskilletl. Oeld.-haud,s from 110 to· e20 per ·moo·t b and.
bou.rd. When hi.r ed by ·t he day,]for u·n sk'Hled laborers" from 75. cents to
I I. T,eam -ter , :1 ,a day and boanl. ,A rtisan ., firom f2 k, ,15. .In..ad~
1
ditioo to their w . ges · net boarcl,. he la ooors· ,a re tn.r nisbed, free of
cost, a house, fu,el,. and a garden ·. po"t v~i,,, g from ½~ , 1 acre; __ so
t)1c nKe ot wagon a0id team with which to haul th,ei'r· fuel and supp,l ies,
autl .f)astu'~Age, whem. they have cattle and hop, whi.ob theJ are enoour-..
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• ~·ii, to... r:ai
a ,7 ..."u
.~,.
_. . . . . -se
,Q. 4. Wbat division is. m.a d,e between 1abor and capital ,o f their j1oin.t
--,r.i,
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
RELA.fIO'NS BETWE&N' L-ABOB. AND CAPITAL.
}.59·
·ri:o"n'!t~oo. .. hen. y,ou w~.r k ,~o shares.7~A .. . I d 00.b,t if th~ is peater
liberal1.: y shown to . aborers 10 any· :po•rtion of the world than 1S done
1
Tbe p·r o,p rietor furnis'b.e1 t.~e land and : ousest iRcludin,g ,d we1.ling, .stables,,and 00 ·1houses, pay·1s the tax,es,.m.akes .a ll neees.·~·-. rs unproveme nts.1, · .,e eps up, repain .a-n,d insu.ran-oe, gi,-- es.free of eost
.a,_ gardeo. spot, fuel, pasturage for the ,e,tock owned bytbe·.laborer,s, aod
lll~·wa, tbe. u .e of his teams, for .h auling Joel and famil,y s.o ppl:i~~, proa,
vides mules or· ho: .- ... wag,o ns, gears, ·imple m.ents, .f eed for teams,. the.
ncce6~ary· macbinery fo·r ginning, or, in sho·rt, every· ,ex·peuse. of maklng
the er.011 and p:rep~r-IDJt it for ·m arke·t , a·g d then. divides, equally the
·wbot,e gross proceeds w.i th tbe 1-abore·rs. · n additi.o n to .all this, t·be,
proprietor fl"ef)ue.n tly mortgages his real estate to obtain means to, a(l ..
·,~ance to the. laborers soi. plies on their port:10.n of the crop yet to be
and.~ this 1s_y.s tem.
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mortgagin g what h : _actually possease~ aud taki g a se,.
.. . . ...
...1.,.,. no t. on I_
'. .ch.· .d,e11e11w,
~ te nee, an d whi
~
·. •.0 v.1ciss1
y upon ·th
exis
cur1.~·t· y no t. ·-et_10
tulles of the seasO"us,, but the fai bfu]oess of the laboren themsei~:e s.
grown,
thJDS,
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·~Ju4er this s:ylitem tbmifty~ ·~dnstriou s. laborers ought: soon to becouie
land-o·wners. But, o·wing to indolence, the negroes.,, except where ·t bey
are •· ery judici•o·o j~ly managed and ·e ueouraged , fail to take ad :aul age
o:f the opportu.nit.ie -·.. offered th.em to :raise t·be.ueceasariea of Jif& Tb.ey
idle a·w ay all the time not a.ctnally nece,. ., ~1·y to mia'k:e and gather the-fr
corn. and cotton, .and i pr,ovid, ntlly· speed what balance ..may remain.
after payi111g· for the adva.nce · . made1to th.em .
Q~ 5" When J!·OD rent, wh ·_t division i.s ·m:ad.e.1-~ Wbflre the laborer
o·wns his o,vn t,eams, gears, and hnip lem. ·n· s oeee · ary tor·ma:k.in.g a crop,.
he ~~ts 'l''!'o~thinl - or three-'foor ths of ·t h crop,, according to th _ qoalit,y
:a nd location or the land,1
Under· the rental as stem proper, where, a laborer is responsibl e .a nd.
owns bi~ team, &.e'., fi.rst-class land i~ r,ented to, b.tm fo,r 18 or 110 per
acre. With. the land go, ,c ertain privileges , sn,1:ih as tboae heretofore
enumerate d"
Q. 6~ How man,y ·h ours do the laborers work T--A.. Thia is .au. ex"'
tremely tlifficult question to ans er.. Under tbe. wages sy "tem,, from
sunrise; t-0 su.n. · t, witb a :r est for dinner of from on _ and~one-half to
thn-e ~one_ , acoording to t'be. sea,s ou of the year.
Uude·r~the -bare or rental F-y·. -teu1 tbe·re.is. :ucb tim•e lo, t,;. forinstauc e,
thPy ,seJd,om work on Saturd·· y · .t all,. an,d as ·t he hmd is fertile, an,d a .
living c n be made on a mu,ch smi1lter· acre ·ge t.b.an ah ;n,d cau cuJti·"'
ti,-r, te, tll,e y ,,_· · : e'r all.y c. ·oose. ou&-third le· .. than tlley Bhoold,. and. it is
safe to s_.v tba·t o-ne third of· the time, which. ooald and w-ou·ld be util . .
lze.d by an iodustriollis laborer m ·w asted in 6shi'ng, huo·t.io_g , aud idlen _ .'.,
Q. 7. U ·o d r w.h at ·, ys.t e·m do y·o o. work !-A.. We, are t~I. to ad.o pt
all of th.e ssstems heretofore st.:,tedAI We pmter, however,, the ten·ant.
kystem, W -e w.i sb to make small farme11J. of ,o ur laborers, and bring·
thetn op aR ne : ·1y· as ·po-ssi.ble to the ,s;t andani of th.e small white farmers But this ,e at1 only be do · e ,g rad·o ally, beean · the larger· portion
or· tbe n.egroes are without any :pe·r ·. onal propert,y. We ·o onld not idfo.rd
to seJt ·mules, implem.ents,. &u., wh.ei,e:a 1abore1· bas nothing~ TherefoTe
the &n.t . year we ,c ontratt;· to work with him on the haJf:-sbare sy.s,tem,
and :require him tD plant..a portion oft ··e Jan,d he eulttl,,,a.tes 10 eo.r a,
'L ay,. ·p otatoe-s , ,& c. F 'o r this ·p orti.o·n w·e ,c harge him a reasonable re.nt,.
to be paid out ,o f' b.i s part o,r the ,cotton raJ . .ed on the remain-der" In
-~bis way all of f,he · oppUes raised belon.g to h.i m, and a't the·end of the
fin.'t l"ea? be win, if indostrioo,s , ·find himself ·possessed o-f enollgh supl>lies. to s11pport and :feed a mnleJI, We then sell hi'm a ·m al.e and. impl&-·
men.t s,, preserving , of coorse, liens. until pa.id~ At the ea.d of the seeond
1 •
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
y·e ar, if he, should be anfortuna·te, and not. ,qu1·te. pay on~, we ,~
the
balance o,ver to the next, year, and in ·th·is way we ,grad·oall,y make a te~ . .
W
. eve·r.. w .a y 10
. our power t··o be
'"'
·· _, e enoourage b"'
·uu 10
•·· · eeonom1~
.a nt. of'h~
. 1m.
ca.I, iud.nstriou.s, and ·p md.e ot, to.surround 'h is home with oomforta, to, plan·t ,
,a n orchard .and garden, and. to raise 'bis own mea ·, and to k•ee.p biil ,o,w a
.. h
• t· 1e
. to
•e ows, 1-.
ior w -h1.e
, .h ,e. hi as. fre
· _. e ~wmge.. o·· ~.r o 'bt,ec
:,- ·. Bittach
. -<,_
~.h.,1m Bl
·much. a.s possible to his bome1 Under· wbateve·r system ·we work, we
·r eq_o ire th~e l~ borer to p1ant, a part of his land io food er-op . and the bal,a nce i·n cotton wit'h. ·which to pay hi s, rent and give him ready money.
We consider· t'b il system as, best ,c alcolated to advance him. Beoognizing him as a citizen, ·w,e t'hink we ,should do all in ,on.r power to fit. him
.for the doti.es of citizenshi.p . ·w e tbinik the.r e is, DO better method or
do,i ng this than by interes·t ing him 10 the prod.o,ction of the soil, su.r;,
rounding,him with _home co111forts and imposing· upon 'him the responz h-ts b· o,E·uoess. w
-:t: ma,1~"" e ·th
81·•b~•
·. 1l.i.ti~
_- es o.,
. . ·h
-~ o Wtll
·_,e be
·. . .t·. ,c .tiz
·,_., ~ eo.or .Iabo· ,rer, h•·e
who goes ·to a home. with a w,eek's ·rations,, wages spent, wife a,n.d.cbilare·u hired ont or he who retums to a, borne surrounded with the ordiDary OO'mfort-, ·and wife and ch·ild:reo helping him to eojoy tb.e products
of their joint la'ttor·t We recogo1ze ·, bat no country can be prosperous
·u ole e the farmers aue prosperous.. _ u ·ndei:_ our system, we ,seek to ba:ve
our property colti.vated. by· a reliabl.e 1set of tenants, who will be-able to
alway·,s pay their re·n t and 1ave a 1Sorplos left.. _
Again, .a, large ,portion of the cotton cro_p of the country is made by
s.m all ·white ·tarmers. 'rhese to a ,g reat e ten·t am• ra1 -.ing t·be:ir' own
,._p
· :',p1·.I.e··s, an
,-.. ·d· ma
- ··. ki', ng
-· · co
,: ·.· tton
· · a.
· · ·surp
· · · I_Os ·C,~ro·'p·· • nr,,
· · Ii,,'""'.; wh 0,,,do th
811.
.J. b·e
' ·'· uomue:r
I ..:.. .. '
will increase ~r,ear by year~ It must be, apparent that 'th•e large, planters cannot afford to hlM- labor and eo.mpete w~th tb.o.se 'W.bose cotton
costs :n othing except the ex_penditure of their o,vn muscle aud ,e nergy.
The n ~ toral con eqoence. resulting from this oonditJ.on ,o f things, is that,
the negro, if he is to _prosper, m:uat grad,ua'Uy ·~ com~._a s~ll. farme.r,
-e1tb.e r· as a ten.a nt or the owner o,f the so.il, and look himself upon cotr
I
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ton as. a 1Snl1)li11s crop.
Q. 8~ ····· bat ia the relation exiatiDg between. the planters and thetr
e-m11loye 1-A. Friendl,y .a nd harmonious~ Tbe. planter feela, .a n in·tie.r
e t ·in the welfare of his. Ja·bo,rers, and the latter in. turn 1ook to 'h im for
........,i, ·•·
d
~t.an,oe~.
m.it 100 an · . assis;_~
Q 9,t What dange.r :is ('h ere -o f ,str1kes.!-A. Very· litt.Je. A.a a rule
t'he laborers, a;r,e ·i ·t .· ·re.sted. in the 1>rodoet1on of th,e soil, and a .s·trike
would be as di ·as,trous to th.em as it, would ·b e to the proprietors. There
is really very little oontliot betwee·u labor and capital.. Tbe conflict in
1
my se tion, ~f .· · ny should come in the fotore, will ·not assume the form
of labor agaios.t capital, bot of race againe,t race.
_
Q. .101 How can the iotere ,t of the labore.1d of your section.·be beet sub..
serv,e d f-- A.. By tbe establi,s'hment by Ole rStat,es of ·i ndustrial achools,
by the total elim1.nation from FederJl polities or· the eo•-c al'ed negro
question., a-o.d by leaving i.ts solution 'to time, aud a iiednetion of taxatio,n,
both indirect and 1ncid,entall. It is a,noteworth,y ·f aot tha.t the impro -~
~ec
.. k. ep
' ' t. pace·
. , pan .flll.Ji<Jil! ' .Wit
' '" -h ·t·'
a t' :"o'"
i n.. of
'· ·t h•
ment
, ~- . ,' ,o
... .f m·.· y. .· °"
...· ,.t:_.1., o
~~···n. b as
. . h,,·e nAl!l!C!,
~q
.. ..
agitati.on of race 1sso.es. The laborers 8hare eq _ally w.ith the laud owaers. the adva"nt.agea of th,e i-mp~ov·e meut, and them. j, e~erJ"rea.so,n to
ex~t i_ucreasio,g and perman.eo:t prosperi't~"'J' if all questions between
·t he I ·nd..owne:rs a.nd their labor,e rs in our sec . o,u are. left to the. natural
, 1ustme~
n-t· of. . 'b ad·e·•G_n·d
·,.or labo··,r F·'or· ·m, any VP!I.J'iA: the· ne
--,.·o~•
~
ad
a
~' ¥'~ re._.
garded themselves as the war,d s ,o f the 'F :ederal Govero·me,u·t , and it were
well tor them to underst-an,d,that they have nothing more.to expect from
tlle Federal Govemment than the white Dian_
, and that, lik,e. him, their'
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future depen.da npoo their own energy, :industry,,· ud economy. This can
work n.,o bard -bip. ·T he "onstant demand :for· th.e ir labor aftonJs them
the a:m·plest :pro,tection. Nothi g, pro,bably·, woald oontribut ·. so i-mme.
dlately to their p.ros1r,erity as the ·reduction of the tariJt Th ,y are tbe
p·nKll1eers of uo 111~teeied article _··., The ooerons bord.en-s, ot· the ·t ariff
1
-naturally fall l1eavies.t upon those wbo are large con some.rs.0 f p,roteeted
articJ~ and .pr-oduoo. •o"Dly t·be gre . t staples, grai1t an,d cotton., w·b ich
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-form the bae,i s o,f our •export trade, and which ean, ·ro-m their' very .na·t..
ore in tbie. country, reooi.ve n.o protectio·o ·from a. tardri
Q.. In your ow.o. ·s.taoo,, Arkansas, wbat pro,p ort1on of 't he land cnltivawd and wh..at proportion of the aerea,:e.~of' the land cultivated i8 in
the form of arge plao·t atious !-A. T .h at lying along th - M'is -_issipp,i and
A1tkm1 .as Rivers, I would be bani for me to estimate the proportio,n.s •.
I do no know· tllat I ha _e ,e ·er con id )red if. b·n t. the port.ions which are
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th.e trout of tbe S,tate of Arkansaa and o · the AFkansas, l(i· ·er. The
rest of the State is cnlt1·-. ated very muc:h bv small wll1t··. farmers.
Q. And a.re; t ·i e-p•rodo.etious, of the email holding - and large holdings,
~~dmdar ,; Iiuq,u ire .a s ·t o ,c otton particularly -A_ .. o, sir.. In the iuterior
of the State cotton is .m at ,e al 1snrpl0,s cro·p en·t1rely.
Q,
·ha·(; a'I~ the, princ-i p, l crops t'h eret- -· ., Our peo,pl,e are nnsing
their own sup1>1ies, fruits .and vegetables. For in -tan~, it was, st1ited
by· the land agent of the lro.n • ouotain Railroad a·t a public meetiBg in
Little Book. some eek.s ago that that road had carried on.t from the
Stat~ o,f Ark-a·usas in o·ne, .ee·t ..soo,ooo poonds,of green peas and. stra -..
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Q. To ·w hat marke·t f-A. To Saint Looi~, e:oin,g to d ere:ot .m arket&
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·T he section of the s .t.ate lyi.ug bet een LitJ'le Rock and Fort Smith is
pecu.1iarly adapted. for growing fruit-, and there is a ve-ry large .fruit
trade.
Q What kinds of fro it 1--- . I n1ig·tit say almost all. kind,s, bot par
tac~1a1ly apples; that &et1iion of oonnt·ry is n.oted for its apples.
Q. Are peaches raised there .·-_l - .,·- A .. Very tine, indeed ..
Q. .Plums!-A~ Yes, 8ir.
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Q.. Are ora··,ges raised there l'- A.. ·_-. ·o, si ; v e do Hot raise .a ny·of' the
tro·pica·· fruits, such as oranges, b.ana.u ;·_·- , a11d lemons,
_
Q, Ho in regard to o ts, r:,e, co,n1, - beat, Potatoes, and ero,ps, of
that d,e seription1-A.. If on,, exhibit,. ·wbi 11 is now bein._g made at th.e
Louis·vtUe Exposition, can. be seen, it w.ill ,oompare favorably with that
of any other po·r tion ot , be .· ni.ted States.
~
Even with the . ·-•orth·w _- t !-A.. Even wiith tb.e North.w·es·t•.
Q;[I W.o'Dld youjlldge. tllat on _· .. half tlteoolJvated su·r fa >· of Arkansas
"s ·made up, of the .larg,er plaot·-&tio,ns !'- . o,, sir:;
hould not say
mor, . thau a third, as a rough. ,es.timate,
Q. Upon these 111a·ota'ti.ons ia there a , cro1, raised for ,o o~omp,t ion
anywhere bot 11po11 ·the.pJa-otatioas, save the.oo,tton '! -A. 0nlY in a. very
limited wa3r. We - _ise Irish potat.oes for the aortbern .m arket t and. it
i · an extremely profitable and product1, e crop with us..
_
Q _ \-Vhati tbe-homemar et p,r iee -A ·w e do ot ,s ell these potatoes
at. ~ome at all. -·~get 'them to sa·. t _Lo-ui-:1 ·CbieaB'o,, aud. ~locin~ati
be1ore the ,grot1nd. 1.s really thawed ont up lbere. '1" e get from •5 ·t o
810 a r».a r·reJ for th m..
- Q,. A barrel of _•boot .3 bosliels 1-A. A barrel of abon.t 3 bushel&
That of course is. a fancy p,riee, and only last -_ until the product, oomes
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in from other source~
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Q. That is an advantage no farmer .has elsewhere lo the United States
ll o 2
(5 LAW)
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
t11an 1n Arkans as !--A. In ,A r ~ansas ,i[1nd. Lou.isia na,. on the Jlississi. l>pl
Ri,··~r.
Q. Ar,e potatoes raised l arg:el,Y in Lonisi~•n a ! - A~ Yes1. sir :; i11 parts..
The cul · i,-atioo oft.be alluv1ul Jands i , Louisiana is very similar to wbait
_
1. am ;~pe"C kh1g of' io Arkausa.s..
Q,. 1~ th._. r1ot0i·t o of good quality raised on those rich laodsf- A"' 0 f
·. ery line qui11lty.
Q Can ou g'iv . the 3il'erage crop of ·p otatoes per acr,e. !-A. I ,ea1n·n ot,
as I h: , . : never r.ai. ed a.u.y n,\~ ·. _·1r for mil'rke·t... We leave .i t almost en-•
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tirely ·to our· small faranen to d.o fba;t · ort of thing~
,Q:. .· . ·bont 300 bushels per· ac1'" ,. S nato Pugh says., Th·is i .· the I1ish
potato you ·peak of, not the sweet .- A. ·Tb ·•. lr-i :b potato,· We :r ai~ also
the s,w eet pot · to there~ I ha/\"e raised sweet })Otatoes.that weigh.e d five
pou1:1.d,s"'
Q. Aud of' good ,q na1it~· t- A. Of fine qoa1ity.
Q. The size d oe,-, not de·preci"_te th . ,q uality, then !-A Not at alt
Q.. The~. ~ I .snwose, are raised. fur exporta tion fro the State 1--A.
.o, sir; tbey are ra.i ed ,a lmost -ent1rel . Jor home consum,p tion by onr
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farm,ers.
Q.. Do :· ou.r people,at hi001e prefer th,e sw . t to the Irish.potato for th.e ir
OWJl n "e f- A ,. I cnHnot say they· do!! I. think, tbey raise botb ]ll equal
pro·porti.ous.
Q;, _Whic·h, on_t ·.e w·bole, is the most p~ofi.table crop, to raise of pnta-
toeij.'f~ A. The Iri ·11 potatoes ,, b . cause ·w·e eXJJOrt anti sell th.em. Th ._
s.wret potato , Joes uot matnr,e until tbe faJI of tbe Jear ~
Q. [lo:o 3:otlr pL _-otati.ons you eneourag·e the 1--ai "ing· the ··ari,t:v of
,c ro 1ts JOU ba,·e $;poken of :f or t,ObSlltt lption 'by· t . e laborers , and .-to,r t'he
u""e of th ,,1• _nter,. I s,up1,ose, bu't.not tor·e.xporta tinn .a nd sale !-A. ·Nni.
for sale. \V,e m,e1eJ3r r,rlse the·m for home cousum.ption. io case of ad.is ..
Ih,e. ,co,.~ton e-rop i · s11l~eeted to ·l'ery ma.Hy
asr . r to o_ur ,cotton crop
,ricissta·ud~~, and ·. e want, to .brave a.I.I onr snpp'~ies at. bom ,. so that f
case of a ihil:ti~e of the eottoH crop we ha,-e our Ii ~iug made at leatst.
Q. i\ re the planter,s and ·t bose ,vbo labot upon the Jtl.autat ious sub..
stau ti aJ 1:v ·iintlie:pend e11 t■ of tl1 sill all fulr:m t ·r s aurron~d iu g··t h en1, or tlu t ht ty
ton.K,t ittu·e eonsumers for' the snian~r· 1armer.s i·n ti.I ~. interior· - .A •. We
ry
JJa,·e on r ·Owu ,gart1 . n.s, aud gen rall,y raise, our own su J)tJ,l ie ··, bot
r1'lcu te.r iu!.,ere-.; ts, bimse1f to Jiiu-1 -= ··. iuark,e t for all tlrte i,rodu.ctH, of hi .
labon: r~. 1 or instanc ·,, we encol1rag-e t b ~n1 to rai. e ·1 •ooltrJ to a greirt
extent. lf fht ·y J1ave a .s.nrplas. of 1•otatoest o-r eggs, or cbicke:us,. we ·wiD
bu~r it and create fl market for it, .a11d g,b ip t e a.rt.iell S , oD( 1.'U, order ·t at
if.th~y lu1\: e· any blnrplns, they w~1.3,- r@ah.ze oo it. On. tbe Mississi ppi
Ri, er wu. Jaa,. .·e near)_·. '" nil. the mark t ·. Boats are Jt.· ;"'• iug tbe-r e tr,e·ry
tlay i ·oing directt.,~ b~y tbe ba-nks o,tt·the ri,.. f'~ W .. bav,tt th - ma1k,e ts of'
··ew ()rJtL:ius, , ·ick~·bur,g·, len1JJb1s, Saint Louis, Ubicaigo, and. we av,e,
, ··o u 1-n.11,. ~.. ·1J, the wbo~le couutr~~Oft.en be fore us wh_re we ,c an ure·a tie a
1111ark ·. t.. 't\·c ine-k e the best. inarket w·e eau thr the prodocts of our
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(J J>o you 'kuon~ som· tb·i ng uf the Jl·tice8 in t·b e :.·· ortb for the ,.,.anons
Cl'OJ}S JOU h,i:re n1e11.tione(l, ,antl,I if ,~ 0,1 bow do the.,~CG mpare With f..be
pri .~-. realized by your la.bore1·,s , a..t borne! - · . Oor lab-0,r ers realize t·he
~ 8hiJJ ti e ai'"th}les. for· tbe.m. Fo,r instance,
11riues of_ be NorfhweL ·t.
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l coo ~i•n th.en, t 0 n1y mercb outs
ue a·ro II i-1 .
1n ,·.aiut J.1.oui~, autl h~\·e iheu.1 '. ol.d for hit1. :account..
(!. 'I here :11,~ uo unddlen11 n 1 ~an~ :; you trausH c·t this bosi·n ss :for·
tbeua ·, -J\.. I tn nsact -, hi~ ·bu··i ue~s. f 01~· t ht"u1 direct.
'Q. lih.urgi ng t llt! w. t,;·i ml Jly t I1e cost o · t ·1n·n ".P ortat ion ~'- A . · ·ou are
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asking me tb,e re]ationship,between the pmpri,e tor and. the nPgro.. Th -re
are .a great many ·· to,re - ,on the ·: issiSS1'ppi Riv-er, and neg:r,oe~ ,so1neti1'.n es
.. rect_
- Iy.. Th
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.go an d_ ,t-ra d_e d_.1
--__.e_, . are a great. many properties
tt,i l)Pl Va11e5 owuecl bs nou-:r esitlent ·• T.h ere a.re some.plauta.tiou ~ rented
oo.t to negroes t.b at t -,i e·,·e is 110it, a w:bite, man on. at all1, Tb.e ·pn,1u-ietor
oomes. and collects b·is rent,at the eod of the rear _-·-.hen the crop is made;.
or it ma3'." be his negro tenan.t oon,s.i g.os the cotron to a facto, - i11 .:s·ev.,.
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Q. Where is ·t he p,ro1)ri,e tor llimse'lf usually resitle.nt'T -A In d1trereo·t
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S,tates. \'\ :·•-have people ,vho are-proprietors o:f real estate w-Jio li¥e out
in Orange, -ew ,J er,s ey • Stl'me li1te io Sou'th C·. aroliua; son1e li,:e. in
Georgia, in. the \:,a. ri~u~ States, bo.t tb.ey own p1.-operty ""'1th us, and 'this
properi,y -jg ·r ent.,e d d i1rect1,. to the negroes. G·euer.al 11·,. tbo,n gh, there
is, a re~pous,i b e Dlanuger in Cb.arge ot· tbia, pro 1·e·rt:r, bnt there are ,n..
,s'tanc.e1S "·here tbere i1s n ,0 11e,· n ,a wb.'i. ie man on ·t he ·1tl,uce at all~
Q1 lu ti.lose iDst n:ces, ho _ do n1atters ,orkt .Do the· n, groes con
,!uct affair " with reasouaible prudeo • &., and con sul't the int · re.st of the
O:W"1te s ! -.··. . No, ,s.i r;, in tbese ins.tanues tb e p1·01, · .t3 ,b'E-Der"'ally ~oos to
,leeaJ gradually;. the :negr-o will not make an improvement ou real estate
at alt.
Q~ In these cases do, tbe· 11:egroes work tuge,tber and ,c arry 011. the.
plantation as a whole, or iti the plauta.'tion eot ·11p .i.11to s.ma1I b.o l-liugs
aud rented out to ·n egroes t'- .A. • .lt is cut ioto small l)Ortious aad rented
accord .Hg to the si.ze of the fdmily. So·me me:n work two :mules; so1ne
four.. It is u _g ulated. better by th. .· noH1ber of ani'ma)is he works- For
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A man witb two m.ules would work thirt,y ael'les; a man "~1th
acres.
tour., sixt.y, antt so 011,. I know some ·negroes, who work -·. ·igbt a,ntl t en
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n1nles it.bat th 1-y ·h av,e paid for·; but I will say thi.s rig·h t ber, ., and it
shows, the n.ece·s~ity of tbP education of tbe 111e.g.r o autl of 16tting bin for
fhe condition of bein~ ab,l e. to take care. of himself and 1nak,e· bis own.
.outme.ts and sign ') Jig ow·o name to a contract: 1 hat" -.k.uowo.of uum,e r011. . instances where ne,groe.s, · ; orking nutler tbe mauagemeut of a
p,r o1u·ietor of' a 1,lantatio11, ha -.- 1nade -enough 1none1· to buy a hom . ;
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th- e b L. JIs., ti.18 ,S ect"'JOO O1·, OOOH1t 11 l.sing
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baek. of ·tb.e allu,..inl lands, antl buy a hoinc.. n t'h.~e or··foo . ~·e ars he
w.i11. ruo\ e. ·b ack 'to r'be river again., haf'i11g lost all his _pro1,erty,,. 1niortga~~d
it to ,_ ou,e ,s,t rekt ep r,, beou·m,e e.xtra~-ag;int, a n<l that storekeetter i u
a khor ti10ic~three or fou·r y ars, 11ro,bab)y·~ w·i ll lull! .· absor'b ed a.'H he
:hat e,a1·ne,I 1111dcr t l1e managemr 11t of a. ·planter,.
Q. Ahoal't rlnl't ,k foro sy teo1 ·; how . _ t,~ n iir,e, is i, and bow grea·t an
--~v1
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c,,ituuot 'b l,une the storekeeJ>er for lt,, for tl1t ,- ·reason, 01'" he c.au only be
hln.1netl JlnrtiH'Us ~ ,U;1pital i.n thjt (~o·ntr)'.'' i~ very lhuit . l, an,l e~ipital.
in -~ .. ~, ,r 01~Je~111s i~. \"tJlr~ lilnited.
·-. be11 yoo cons,i d·e r the t~1.c t tiurt · Tew
01~le-.1·u11-, whi'ch lu-nid]e.s. tbe cotton, ,cro1• of lba.t couutr1, 11:as a 8m!all~1.
buuk·i~!~ c1111it,1l -~11u11 a11~,. ooo of yo1u" little tow·11s 'iH · Juisalf!l111setts or
~ -t'l · 11~1 · ,.J).-..hir~·, i -boivs .,. t, •O nee t ·at there is ·, o ·t ,, .1 ouA'h capital to be
cU I'fUUt~tl to tl1e (~ouutr,~ ll~O)Jl,1 at re,_souabl~ euoo;:b rate 011· .1nt~reS't
~.n~ tli ~ pee ~1 ~ I ~ 'to oon ll nc t • ,s t I icti :\.. I ll,gi ti:m ate bn:si ness. I l.1 a \-e l{H0\\7 u
,cllu~ital to tos :- in New l)1tJ,eans, counting th~ co1ntHi si~ uR~ or~(! 1>.er
·C f 11t.• to,r n1011.e,.. lo.aoetl. The tore'k eeper ·w hu borro,v·:s that tnouey to•
uo1H,l uct 'hiti 'bu sine -.s '\ lith has to buy his, goo,ls from som.,e ID~roha.n t at
~OEllC point ,:rbo lnll.Mt tnake his 1,root!!
.C, can.not gu direetl
to the
producer, bt"c 10. ·t! hu ba:s .~ ot to ·a \'e ~omellocJl,x to I eli1 l1in1 out if his
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
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ha'""e ,c ost b·im ·p erhaps 30,, ,40, ,o r 50 per cent. 'm o,r e than the &rat price.
Tberefore., be, has, t-o tack on · n ,enormous p,r ofit to brio,g himself out
whole ancl ·p; a . · his CXl"W".'
r"W' O ses i'n ord.e r to ·mee·t his oblit:rations with the
factor in. N,e ·· · 01 1·e:1ns. Tber,e is,. howeiver, amoo.g a certAi:n class, as
·tbere ·woold be in all sectionsof th:•· OO•n ntry,as exishi,righthereinNew
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York, or ·· 1ywhere lse, a _e·t of people who will alw.: ~s prey ·n poo ig;..
norance, The be -t protection th.at ,can ~ afford~ 00 tbe l a ~ of that
country i ~ education ; ii"t him for his conditio.n of life, that he ma3.,. pro.
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tect Iu1use
Q. D,o you u1ea.n to b .· understood tha,t these tr .- ders do bosiness upon
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borrow ·d capital. !-A~ Almos,t entirely.
Q. Their cap1tul is :hired in _·_ew Orl ans .·- A. Or any poi'nts, they
may go for it1;. I merely 111-ention ,N ew Orleiiins. as one point.
· nomber
of our people borrow money in :tiemphis,, and so-me borrow mouey in.
·v i,c ksburg...
·
Q. J)o ,3i·on kDow wbetber those people to an,y extent borro·w eapital.
of ·· ortbe.rn capita.Ii ., .s iu New Y ,o r'k and other porit i.ons of the ~orth.t A.. That class of p ople do n.ot;i In t e last 'few ·ye _1'18,- I might say almO'st 'Within the hist two ;years- , ortbern ea.pita.I has, be·g ,tn t.o · eek in.vestm·· D·: iu ou:r •· ectiou of t:he country,. but o· ly· ·u pon m.o tgages on.
real es,tate . T ,e clas-s of storeke ·11en: I allude to generaJl1· have ·nor-ea.I. ,e~ ,t ate at 1111 they or. ly have their stor ... .
,Q.. · our y,.·t lD ·by ,vbi,c b tbe. pl -_ nter mak :iS a ·m,a rk,e t for th.e surplus
prodnetiou . ot· he laborers o·pon. bis p1antation d.is,J>eoses,'Wit'h .a m.iddlem.a.n,l and: enabl·. s th,e laborer to m1a.k.,e ,· sav.in_g, · :hereas if he goes tu
. ·e 1·:._'1_1!11JiQ
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As :l ong a. , h.e is under t'b ·• .- .<,u idance and care of the proprie.tor of the
pla.utation h - prosp rs, the planter, a . we express it in that eon,n.t ry·,
1 1 · '
",n,
,
'' 1·o. a n· .~.n"
·"
h
i 1··m
.
,o ur
, a.."',d
_ "·:,, w
. _•.·, ·m
.•- 6 ke.-,0 \
.
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-
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~ n~..a.r.,,
,"!li" 1'""r ,t'Ps1
. ve to·- 't he n·e·-t:"i
n"'l'ft
........... , ·w
. ..e
·
1'"·i·-_
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_
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lo.an him our a.id, that is,, lie 'DJUst follow our advice., and he has ]earned
to d,o tba:t, aud by doing that be accumulttte ;, b ·u t w·b en thro wn upon
1
his own r,e souroos-th .• re afe ·i ndhtidnal exceptions, of· course, where a
goo] mauy negroe · pro, ,p er b ·m.selves ·wben 't hro~n upon _their· own
.
. i"_·1 ...ar
.ii.
k'·a·__n~g ~
but as a g- D eWHII,]
whe/N'.l,
:resour,
o' os
c;~ _ .e.ac
I~·- ·t
~tj ha
_ll!!V lea'llr.aa,
' ' l."m t' he'
goidu.oee , ~11(1 car,e of th · J>rnprietor of a plantation. and subjects himself
jo t- ~s nn:; one else does to the. com1nou trading with store -eepers, in a ·
iC,
.. w h
..tA,,..)
tei-J ,ou
l ears be.· 'l ose~
,.1 .a·t. h,.e. h .· · · cum111a.
,e u.
_
,Q. Under these fitYorable cili.-cuui tanoos which nrroon,d the 'laborer,
on. tlr 1•l~1ntatir0n oue wou·l.d think .b-, ot1,g b·t , "to aooomulate; but I ·nndertStand 3 ou tb.a 't a8 a r;td!e lie is rathe1i i1oprovid,e ut &'Dd fail · to ,accumulate. To what. do son a.tt1ibute tht t hup,:oo ideuce on th.e pa.rt of the
Degro la'l10rer ~-A~ It. i . simply 1i:01n tbe v.rant of a pr.op ·r appreciation
of the 01,pori:tlnit 1,e s.of afl \'l' ancemen t f1 O't n his ,o oudition.~ Th.e uegr-oes. are
Jo' t be_gloning, u,s I expre, sed it,, to realize the r•espflnsibiJ1t1es of life,
aHd j nst as t 'hey b . ,rin to realiz· tbe responsibilities of life b -.· ,e they
begin to priONP :r. 'rhe pros·11eri ~~: of the, 1
South ha,.- onl~y begun. i:n 't he
las,t few .) ears and i h.·1.s begn.u to ·1 er-ease just as. t.11 ·_ race is ·ne baa
ceased~ : will <le1nou~tr:lte tha:_ to you by ·nttl _paragraph 1· C[!t OO't
of the 1YtnfJ. York. Her,ald las.t 1ugbt: taken f>om the New Or!ea-ns, TimeBDem,ocrat(j If ,vou tak tbe a~se ~sed v·a luaUo,n of re.al ._ ,, tate in. Alabami , in 1870 it ·\ ,as as .... s -,1 at $111,486.,581; in 1883 it is assessed at
$15l.,9.::!:0, 115, Thero has b . :n th~it iuerease i u tour·J ears f1~ Ill7,000,, ·
000 to Str>J,L00,000~, No - let,u,s take the State of Ar'k,ansas . ·in 18'i9 ,oor
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· ,a ·- , rac'
.· ··] a~t" .· .· IQ,~,
~,,,. va
· I ae-·d:. a·· t., ,-•":1
··''.
"'PfiOILl
~ - ,eK"'l"'
.at·,·e w
. .] net
au,,8·9··
· -,1
ut:.4.· 1· ,.. 1,....n .s.:I'•>
-. oo 1' ·t. · is
.• ·36·-·,,ooo
. -,,000.-. '. ,.
It goes on just .in that same proporti.ou. For· instance, 't.his shows tha,t ,
in eight of the Sonthern and Soo·tbwestern States there, baa been an
l,
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
BELATio•s
~·n~~
:n :.·. .D.Eiii&
.l!dkl'I
..
'I'
lRO-' ·.-a--:c·,_·.
~,~
1
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-
.l vn
iA-11.S.,
165
C~
,l'DITJ.L
· · · ·•
increaae of'near]y half a billion dollars-tibat ·is, t ,94,836,,6 86--in ,,,atuc,
of' taxable pro~rty dori.o,g the !s hort penod of tour yea·rs.
I .h appened to pi.c k op, this book last 'n ight. If I bad, au op,p o.1tun-ii ;y
I oonld have gotten. som,e. .tatistics ·t o &ho,w yon, t:b e in•ereased production
in the ·e, different .S tates, and _how oompletely it bas takeu. place, as the
laborer ·has begun to re.Jy ,on, himself and been t·brown on bi~, resource,s~
Q•. .a·a ve yon ob erred the origi- ,o:t·t jb ese stats, · cs.! .- A. Th-,)! come
1
1
1
fime, .. IJemocrat.
from tbe New Orleans
I will read this. ·in ord,er that
they mar· be k.nowD, ·T.h.is 'is ff-om the Heraltl o.f y,es:terd.ay·:
SOUTIDHtN' P·KOGK 'SS,
The lfe,w Orleaue, :_,mu-Democrat h e g.. the, d fmm tmstwo.r th7 soere.es and given
to.··:the pnbUc !a.lu.a ~le statistics,eho•wiog t~e industrial ·p l?~ J11adei i:o. the Southem ~tates ,d ~nng t ,b e p_Hit ·foo:r years r-.b1e co ·.. em tbe pe_r1od noo 18•79~ the, Jetarr to
w'bich the. fignrt"' · of the, lat:eat n -t.ional •OODsns ·pply.. Tbe censli.ut ntur1us show a
·111uve.l ou, material grow t.b i Ill tb .· South dnr1ng t'he ·pl'@Cedi.ng teu. year.s~ But., .ae.1
;;::tt:;,~~agna
.-,~D~M!~ :ro::~!~~je:tb!~1!it::r:v~ ~:.! •r~ce!!
ade 'b etween the te"os · , yea:n ,
Taking tb . 'im.p or ~nt if.em.o_l ~~i ·'Value ,o f property~ a compariaon bet .een the
yea . , ltri9 and l ~ gives lhe follo.win. . <remark~ble :m.e,tdts •
AMe88mnt,
.,~
~,I__ ___
AJ\ ham• -- --- --- . _,__,__
,_T. • • r+
Al'bmAM ... ...... -... ".. ~ ......
•r -
••T. h .
.. ,..
~
-
-
p
.. .. . . .
......
~
:J'iori.:lla,.••,..• __ ••••.• ----·-. _,__.••• ~ - ·-·•T.
~~
_ -
T.
-
- - .... -
-
-
-
--
.. -
• • •
~~
T. . . . . . ., . , . . .
~
1
, 152.
-
..
I
];~
· · T.
T. 1
•H
.. - - -
~ ~ ~ ~
-
-
~.....
•
•
■•
•
•
•
• • •.
•
•
•
• •
•
r
-
r T. •
• •
T.
•
•
•
■
wn.
115
ooo. ooo,
==='
11 fiw, 288. 81()
•r
TeDlli.e&aee- _~~. ~ ............ ... ..,.. . - - . .... . --- ........... ,.._. . . . ..
252, '280 ff.i
1•
,-------·
-
A
nte..
oo~ oroi; ooo
~::.=.-.:::..-.-.-~-----.-:.-::::::_::::::·:::::.:::··:-::::::
'Vjyj11.mppi .;, • • •••• • • •• •••• •• ■
.,
Ta:s:
000, 000
. -_meat
61
,.
'I i
21.,, .1 1• .ws
p
!
2~
rz
::t;:;=: :31
2.
3
£l. _
'Fax
rat•
.,1~'1, ~ ' 581
86_,,D Z,Ml
1
..,_....,_,,,.
I
- - Ii
1871.
1 [
5,
~1:
~
l~.3~ 3'5
223 ,'2Ji.l, 3'5
1
34M .t ,'it°" 73'6
S
=-
11. 215. 111<:R-J' ) " "" :
I ,.,, - . , ...,..,...._ -
@Q
.c■,
j_
_
This sbows th t m eight Sou the~ and Southw,estem S · ·tes. there has b ~ _D an inereue ,o f' nearly h.a lf a biHiOO: dolla;ra. 14.94: t!36,.~
~n th . ,~alu~ of , taJ..a,blle Jr.rop
erty ,du:dug the sher pe ·oo of foor years, wbd ~ i·bc rat~ of ta:xauou IJiatt.bee11 act_u,all:v red need.., A:t the sam ti me Hbttal a.p ,p ropria.tione ha .. e been. m:M] . for i8eboo·l ,
·p ,o.b liic impro ·emeote,, and other nsefnl ·p urposes.. ii, Nor i8 tld:a m · ,elooe ·riJ\"8 'lll,c e
in valuati,on,"' says,the Ti1'fi6',..~a! · ·~·· tbe. ~resu lt of an7 '" nflatio,u in. value, bt1r~. the
nat_or,a.t s,eq e,~oo o:f';ra~~ ,crops., new md.111s,t1"1es de . t!l0poo, ne .· n1,ao,uiaetures, Qu.nee,
,and I.um he·r mi Us esta,h,h .·b• d...''
1
Th . esteueiou ofraUroad&'b as __ barol .. l . ,astonisnin~.. In ·t he ei,g 'ht Sta.teeuibove
- ~-..··1 n· ·.J.Dif
:1111J!-9. 1·.1·t'UU~·
ti.!'n. ..- m1·1'
'1.1 vnf· . . . Wlfl,_..1
mT
.-. 'r';e- now ·t"¥f' ·t.on.1
-a!\11,,
en·qme,rated .t·he:,11,~ W~;;..,
· · °um
'11'ii:HJl.,..
· ·he
' ·o.U- m1··e
ahowitl', ,· · ·u iln~re~ in fom yttare o,f· ~,281 ~~~ .· ~ ~e ~~icu ~tnrnl 1n·n.~ re~ ·~ ~ule _iis,
abo·wn tty the faret t-h at t be value •< f ·m w prod a_c te ra i~d 10 t ·e _ Sta t~a, ~ .,eJ 111dui,g all
OTO,p s, bunuer !attle . and ·w ool,,bu. ad va eed fro,m · 398 uOO,OOO in U:17~ ta 1,567,~,UOO,
io 1:t:re~t,o,r an inc ··aee of ·t~,UV0,000.. _Doring this period t~,e miHe·m l otrmtpot ,~ f Ala~.
bamiA alone has b1cr-ea.ed f.ro:m IA,000; 000 to ·_19:,)000~000~ and the hnn her product of
Arkausa1 fro. ,..$l 1,79{),000 to $BJ OOfJ,OOO,,
T·:be tmde of N. ·w Orleans is .a. haromc·t er of ,S outhern indostrf and comme·ree.. The
v _J11e of d.o mes ic pr,rM}, _ce iu tb ·t ei yin 1881-~62 was 8,159,,000.tOCMl'; ·,o 1~'81 :H w
fiOO 000,000~ TIie ·. alue ,o f e.x ports ,o f ,dom,eeti6 pffld uce to foreign. eouotriea lo tbe
farmer year: amo,unted o .166,000:,000; in the la.ti.er. ii.t ·rea.choo.185,tOOO,,IOO ..
..These ·~ gn~s ~1 a remarkable. s ~ of recen~ prognss !n ·the_,~ ~u th~~,. S~~~
AJ -. . y, , rt.c h 10. u a.tu ral t ·CIO :re.es, ·t e Sou th has lo.ng been. poo,r tbroo: h lac..k ol de,..
' .... ,,, _,- •. "• ,+
".,...
.. d~. DlpeD.
. ·, ,a-, new
,•·. ,. ~
.in'P-oi O
·f lm u_··dns,
. . ,l 8·"vii&,
~Vit
· . a._nA1
"' - - QW
- .
Vw10pm.en1
v.., Itb
- -,,_....
as au;,, ii.11,&8t en1
~. . .rt
a . ,
-- t-ri•_U,I
- .,, :,
g IS
ma mu,g npia ,s trid_es t-0'! . rn_a _~ e of m~~ial. pros~ty ,oo,m mensur.ate with its
grea _natural w~alth . -.1\eu, York .. er.a.ld, Septem b r I~., .U ~.
Now, he·re is, q,n itc. a remarkable fac.t to ·w·b ich I wi.s· to call yo ·r at1
,!!f 'V
11,
:
11, · ·
.
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1
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tention, to sbow you tbe o,ppo:rtuuities for labor exi~tiog in •lie. South
and w'bat is the condition of certain counties io the South.
holtl in
JDJ baud ,l l· bo.;,k that is, eompil ed for t1'e benefi.t ,0f tbe Ge~·gia Pacifi,c
1
,■
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
16'6
kgLA"'l''IONS BETWEEN LABOR ·Al1» CAPIT1L,.
1
1
1
Railroad,, bo·t I happened to find it im my room and t·hoogbt these mat;,,,
ters would be iuterestin g,
Q,. T.h -. d.a t · yon oon~.d.er' :reJiabl . ' '- A.. Wbait I read. 1 t,bin ~ comes
from. the cens,nt;, report; _ tbi.uk t-h is ht rehable ::
1
In this .·o- -n . ·l io.1i1 :t et Ut1 gl· nc
at llou tgomeTJ Count .. , Ala ha.ma, w hieh;. alt..ho11 h
not _i~ the ~h. n·e are study.in '\_i~,o? t~c~sa~,e, prairi .. for~1u1rt-i~.o~ ero ·•· ·. ·d ~y the Geo,~~:1a
P ' c16 c Ra 1,~;wux 1, on tl~e edg(~ (t:t }I 1, ~Ut,81 pp1. Com pare , t .· 1t _!l Butler ,c oo o ty, Ob1,o ,
" hi.ch • sbo,x~, the Letit l'eto,~cl of auy euun r;y- bi the ,,re _''- lu Jive . t,ook Mont:,go-meey
hu . 1 ?'4~,,'2 7a; lint Jer, · l,3$3,5~.J.
Tb.at is, th . largP.st producing county 'i'n Ohio as 0ompared with Mon~
gomery Uouu~y, Alabama, be-t7ure ·t he- war..
•10--D t .-r.
_
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,
er"'-~
lli,.li, U!I :, l Q
" _1o.u
, ·6__40.
A
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d"1i
_ O .. , :,'" Bn._t,J,ia,
. ""' r
- , 51
.
__ ·Him
_
w
9H,,,, Brul · ·:r, .·:J,lt,,~;,4.
~
oli
';ii
fll"h"J
nt .f!"Om.a;
l!i ered
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In g.rnin BuUe·r .. as co,nsiderably ahead, but 1n roots
lloutgomery donbled Butlt.f.' in t:~e prod.-oc1iio,o 0£ ·w oo)t awl .bad,
its ootton e'lrop ·to, ij]l(J,\;V i •esiu ~. Tho 1: ota l \ aluo of the c1-o:ps of }lontgomcry ConotJ
··J 2'!!1 .170" tl1u-·•· ot. Butler ,o o]v
,· l U1 I:!!'-I~
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lf'oQt,g ,oim "1i.Y l~t-..
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-
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Tbere i~ _fontgoruery Cou.uty,. A.I·_· bama, eompared. with. the Je&dio.g
·p rodutillg (..'OUD'~Y :in 01110.
- Q~ Do ~you k11ow as to the relati.'t e size 0f the ·t w'O ,counties 1-A. I
thi uk 1t \\''a s g-(xeu here ;
1
A, hand ome h :h1mp,b fbr- the. Ala·b ama oonuty :!
A;n,d yet Montgomery ie, not 'OP to
the average of the p·r aide counti s ef Alabama..
I do not kno:w t' ,e re]ati,,,e size. He·re is a £act,to w. hioh I ·wish to call.
JJ,articu1 a.r a tte:u tiou ..
We bni \"'e e " 1~ed t h:o ,o rt al Hy table-a o,{ I be United St ate-_ , ceuBU.8 for 1880. and
Hind tbat, nrs rc,gLi rd · h al th ,G eorgia, Alabama,. · , d M i,SSi ~ippi DJ alt.e a better , ,o . iog
than some of -t he old.est a ia d moat densel,y populated, Northem State&
Tbere is gene.r-Ally an. idea prevailing· that th,e Southern States, are
·._. erl'" 1L1.u'healthy,~ .It is a point that, bears dii -et1y on our labor question,,
~11d for th~t reaso~ I whsb to caH special attention to 'this table,. W'h tch.
J,s taken d1r,e et ly f1'"0m the censns :
.AnnuaJ tlea.t"li,-,,ate /or- eaeA llt"Hucnui' ofpoptt,la.ti,m ..
i\:liMSi1sip1pi has the smallest average of death rat,e of any of ·t hat oum.·b er of 1States, which I ha'f'e enumerated.
· ,· ·. - e··. th
~·
,.,11!111
th
- . ·, · e ,d, ea
··· th, ra··.te
·.. . 1s
" 1
--arger
,.
Q,. .I suppo
- e·· cu,"omR"'°"oce
, a-t- th·
.. e·. averag
111 citi · s_()ug)l~ t~ be. taken i~to -~u.nt, th.e S@uth~,r n JJ.o,pnl:a.tion. being
mostly rural, 1 • 1t_oot!-A. The Sootbe,rn population 11 to a very, great
·e,x tent rural.. StiH there are citi,e s i~ Georg·a whi,c h I ,s,nppose iu pro..
portion to our rural population 'WOold .not ma·ke the latter i:n ex,ee.ss of
what i't is here., Jf yon tak.e your, rural popu.la·t ion here aod in New·
,J erse:t, where J~Ou am densely popnla.ted,. we are no more dense,Jy popalated in the p~oportion of our city population to the c~iiontry ·than you
are-h .-.re, I thi·uk1
·
_ Qli ,or the population, wh'i eh is,
a rule, t he m,o re .:healthy in the
,Sou.th,, the colored or 't he w , it,e population I
By Mr.. Pu·G n:
Q,. Tue . · mRS't ·be some qnalificati,on of t'hat differeoce 'betw·een the
(\eQ.tb rate bet,veeo au~ S"ta~ ,a s _· -~~usette, for in
ntl
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
•ee
-1,;
•
J.61
RELATIONS .B ETWEEN L :.·. BOB AND CA,P ITAL,,
...
Georgia, on. account nf f e fact-which I su.ppot10 ·in·ost be <;)nceded-
tbat in tb~se uew ·S tateR popnlat-iou is youugei~ a.u(] tnor~ ,·i.g@rons than
:i'o tho older State .~ Tbe , mi,rratiou to tbese Stut,es bas been of the
you.ug,e1· a11d 111ore ·,·.1.=-orous J)opulation, not; so Httble to die as t,bose who
r,e tu ·ill b .~bind. •1ud are o1der . -A. T'h~l-e b·· s bee11 but ,~ery little mi.gri-_ 1·ion iuto these 8 tatt's, op to tl.1is cen~usi,
1;:lr-• . 1· ·~ - .• That i · . 1h f~ct to some .~octent,. suppose, any .ay..
1
The 011
IRllAN~
1
In t'bat same eonuec·tion, I sup,po_· ··, should be borue
iu 1nin(l 1·be fact l,bat tbe po: ·ulation of th,ese E,a.stern States is largely ·re•
e11force:d b3t in1 n1·igrat-io11. frorn E.o~rope, and fhat.1s of the l"!l~n.~e.r and
more , 1brorou '"..Enro11ea-n population, and do not know bot what th.~
11eoplP- iu IIuss .· cbnS t'"tt::; will nisis:t upon it that they .a m. as young ao.d
as · ~igorous a .· anybody~
Mr. -,. u·Gn. I have no doubt.
saw·. _great many very old people
there,
T.h . •, IT' ES, ~ .. I merel,y m.ent.ioned. this, because I v.ranted to do aw.ay·
with tbe im1)r,e.ssio. which generally exists _ba,t the Southern 1States are
t'er, o Hheal tb ,...
.lfr. PUGH. ~! bave no do·u bt that wha·t you state is true as a gen,eral
1
1
fRC.f .•
The \V'itNE.ss. No·w·, tu beu ou·t the assertion which I mar1,e that 'the
pros11erit-y of the negroes. b .~an to· h1crease ,vith 'the cessation. of- m,ce
i~oes in lhe118 ootb, wb1ch has been so apparent ·t o me. tha.t _ ca·o almost
u1ar'k 'the 'th .,, that it began, ·look at the. co,ttoo crop that 'is, being made
to a ~r~c1.t , 't lXtent, by so.1all f:arn1ers; look. at th.,e increase o'f the cotton
c:1--,op 1·0. the d i.trereot States in th,e, .l a t few :y ears.. Fo,r inNtaraoo, ·t a.~
' e
Georgia: in 18'.itt she. ma.de 473,934 bt1l~s. of cot'ton; 111 1880 sbe ~1ade
s ·1. ,«t, .au increase of ,-5 rer cent!! Alabama io 1870 p,r oduced 4~9,.48:~·
·baltis ; iu J.880 s.he produced 69D,ti.1:4:, au increase of 62' ·per ,cent~ J,I:i,s~
Bi~s1pp·i in 1870 priudnced 664,038 bales; in. l880 1
s'be. produced U,jJ,,,8 08
bales, an increase o.f 69 J.~ ·c nt ..
H, re f -: a. very ·tgui:ocant fact a,lso with regartl to the condition of
our laborers "u the, South, and ."·t sbows. o e oif the di&.1.d.vantages we
l1a,~· .h ad. oo la •··_ r un.cler~ Duriug the w,a r and from. the 1~sn)t1t of the
war nearly all of ouii•Ji,,. · ,s.t . c1 "' wa~ de8,t ro:\Ted, a grea·t pot tion. of it w·a s,
destro:y,ed, whi,ch left, us after the war ·w.i thout the meao.s o,,C 1·aisiug ou·r
1
owo meat and sucl1 upplieis at ·h ome·, and took a.w aJ f1·01n the: Soutl1 a
great portion of our v.ealtb, for· ·w~ 'know 'that eattle, hog . &e.., increase
in, arlt-hmetb,al pro:!!Tes· • If yoo bave a o·g, 'this year s.be bears, so
maD.Y pi 8 , , an(l in a OOUJJ1e of years those pig-, bear so u1auy, anti NO on~
But w·e w·ere 'Jett ~itboot Ii _·.·· stock. I have here a table ,vhich slto·,rs,
e·\'"eu under those diffic,olries,, tl1e increase in tb.a·t rfispect in the 8001·.b~ru
I
1
States of Ii . e .s.·o ·k. Tbese a.re ,rery 11igni6.c aut figu·rc_- s" It ·is eutirely
1
Tbe .live
stookof Ne.w Yoi··k io 1870 was 5,21l6.,42.I .; in 1880.,,5,J.22,238, an 1n~rt~dse
of 2 per cent.. In P . u IJSJ I\"auia. i..-,vas -, ·. tt4, 748 in I H70; 1n. 188-0, 5,:!'oo,,.!U4..
.an iner-ea.se of 17 per ~cent. J'n Geor:,ria,. ·in x70.,. i.t ·was :!',275,137;
lSBO, 3,139., l0l, a11 iucr-ease o al· per cent-. In Alabama ·i t ,vas 1,000,200
i.n 1,g70, and in 1880, 2,5'86,221 1, .a1.1 increase of' ,Gl ·p er ce11t ,, and in llis09 ... au ·nu,·r ease
- • ~
· 10
• 1.-s·..u,
.,. lt
· wa,
- s 1,·,,,,. ~.
..1 20~·
., I,:·ss
· U,· li'~.~~es, ,~,
s1ssiss1pp1,
, - ·a, an d· li,o
~f' ~811e:r cent. _ T~iij sbo,vs that ·with au the d.isadvautu-,ge.s the, South
h.atl to con'ten,d ,vitb of their stook catt]e being destro:v·ed, the atur.af
a.d.v anta.ge.~ of climate aull pastul"age, to ,v:b ich I attribute it. e · h1t.iug 'i.o
the Sot1.tih IJ;.i·, e enabled them to inc1~ease more rap'i.dlv their Jive stook
than .any other of the S'tate,s or the IJ1nuu. ~ That show,s, clearl,y the act .
· 41nta~ w·hic·~ t~at coa·~ trr o~ . for .i mmi,g ratio~ .~t;1,d labor~ Tbis is,
an .aeci,d e·o t th1· t
'bap11eoed ·t oge bol'd of 1bem last n·i,zht..
in
iii-;)
I
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168,
BELA.TIONS BETWEEN LABOB AND CAPITAL.
1
,an advau.tage to labor.. As I sta·ted in my wri'tten re.ply to your au·bmitted q_
uestiooe, we, 'W Ork bo.t few whi'lie laborers in _my section of the
country.. Whyl Booanse they soon become Jand-ownem with the
opportu.uities which. present themselves to the
The white m n will
not be 'the~e mor ~- thaa two o . three years be.f ore be hu, bougJlt and
paid for .hllS laud. in almost eve.ry instan.ee.
By the ( Ju:A.JBMA.N:
Q~ And he become . an e, ployer himself~-A .e ·e become& an emploJ er biwse'lf.
_ _
_
Q Does he u. oa .ly locate upon the plantation Jaads along the
rivers.! - - _:~o, sir; be cannot buy tb·s Jand, beeause the,planter wool,d
not tli .ide alar,ge p,11'. ·o ta io 'intotroots; he-would not .·- Uoff ,a portion
1
1
1
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•
;
the ·w hole.
Q. ,1 n h.ow large trdcts are ·the plantations be1.d 7 Just mention tile
,o f hi.s land wi·tbou-t ,s lHo,g
acreage. of som.e of them t,hat you. are aequain.ted wi:th ..........A .. I would
say vari,ously from 500 to 2,ooo acres in coltivati0D..
Q~ How 't'aln.able are the -··pl.an tati.o ns per,acre t- A ~ That is a ,q u.estion
which.,c annot be answered detinitely·,exeep,t in this,way: wbere a p]anter·
o,wns tb ._ land, an,d he i out oif de.be, the land is .u o,t fo,r sale,, beP.anse h.e
cannot invest h1 money in &nJ~b"ng that i1s so profitable; bnt w'h ere a ,
pla,nter's propei:ty 1s m-ortgaged,, and th.re I ortga-gree want ~,to foreclose
,a nd •-ill forecl,ose,. ,··nd there. is not in that count?,'.y ··be Dloney which the
pla-n t,e r can borrow to reliev,e himself of'bi1S indebtedness, he, will p,roba'b ly .seII ,·.isl ·nd at a 8ID.a ll exces , of his, deb,t in onl ~r to -a,~e som ~
thing,. You see there is a waut of ,capital in that country,aod if'a p'J:auter
i -_ in -· ol etl., as, many· planter a.re and have been, ever s·•aee the war, he
mustd.o the best he e--an The~ are ·· any planters :in that eou.u try wbo
B're notbing but a,gents of the factors, from tbe fact that the inter,e ·. t and
1
1
,c omm·i 's ions they pay nPou. th ,d eb _- amount to more t.han t-he re11 · for
the property, and tbey hold on. to it as a home. Therefore,, a planter .lo
1:bat ,c ondition 'Wi.ll sell at a nominal price, whereas a plan ation own,e d
a.nil paid for is not for· sale.
By Mr. PUGH:
Q . There is ]}eany:n o e ~ tablis .~d market ·p rice ! - Ai
one a·t all, owin,g
to t-he .ueoe · ·ity of t:he on.e to sell and the desire ,of an.o·ther to 'buy~ ·
By- the· OH -"tB·· P1~.. .;
Q A't what rates per acre ha e yoll known the title to ,cban,ge io some
i.nst~ -c -~1-A... I ·h av·e 'I mo !)t lands to be beugbt there·, iuelnding, woodlanclH and cle, r,ed land ,r-, at,from 120 t,o 1125 a acre, W'hicb would b~,
S'a.J ,, 140 o,r tau . n ac-r e for the cleared land, aud. I have knowo otber
planters to refose 180 an. acre, cash.
Q - D,o you. think that ' 80 or •1,0 0, per acre would be a reaao·n able
p-ri.rce for these plantation l nds'I -A., They sold before,the war for 1120
]•" '
.
"
_·
@-
'!l\r ·" , ., •
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an.acre .
By Hr~ 0A.I,L-:
Q.. Yoo. a.re epeakm,: now· of tile allovial laodsl--A" I a·m speaking
of' the allovial land , on the .M is issippi River, oleared,, .r eady for ,c altivation, with the impro'V'e ments existing opoa them,.,
B,y the C·a AJRVAN :
Q. Im.p ro,ved. 'p lautations,t~A,. Yes, sir..
Q. Upon what price per· acm d,o you think ·t hose lands would pay,, one
pe.r ce,;a·~ t-~ ~ \tjll bes~ a»swe~ th~),
.,1;:,ar wi~ ~n.other,. an '·u.teres~ of 6 _
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169'
BELlTlO:l f,S BETWE'EN I,ABOB. AND CAPITAL.
.
qaestlon,'b y t , e fi,gores of reot:s which I bave ,g1ve~.. ~ he rent,, wit.bout
au.y nsponsibdi~yattaehed to the proprietor at,,· II,. is from i8 to 8,10 · n
1
acre.
Q. In 1noney !-A,. In money. I will .say, further 'th1i-t I have been
li'vi,n g in that conntry since 18G9, a;'ud. I h,a , e ne ·. ,e r yet known a year
whr..en ·1t.he~e has. •, not beeD a sutlicie1it crop, made to llKIJ, the. ·r ent, witbol1t
a smg1e except1on~
Bv,
. Mr. 0 ,. ALL:
Q. What ialeftto tb,e te.nant after he ·pays thiR$10 an ae.re!-A.. That .
land produce . on an a . ·e ·mC!e 400 pooode,o,f lint "ott-00 to tbe acre, which
at 10 cents a pound is i401,
.
-
~
B.y the 'C B'A IB~lt·AN :
Q"' To what extent is Northern capital availi'ng 'itself ,o f op•p ortuDit.
to inve,s t in these plantatio0isl-A;, I n1,ig'h t sasit is limited..
Q. From what foot does that ariise '! -A. F.rom the fact that the ,sarety
of in . estn1,e ut ,,the~e is Jo -'t beoomin, 'apJJateDt. to ea.pita) istJ'j Capitalis _
op to this •t ime .have ·beeu afraid to go to the Sooth, owing to the di.atnrbed eondition of affairs J)olitiea,Uy and ,his ve1~ raee. .issue question.
A ,man.. d~s no~ wau~ ~ car.ry ,h t m~ueJ do~n th~ere and p~t it into :a
1
,c ,uotry that m1g,b t be involved 10 .n ots o,r disturbances. Tb.ose q.u,estion ·. a:re ·n ow,just beg.i nnin, to ,settle themse.,·e ., and ,c api.t al is be .iu,ning to .f ind its way;.
Q - Do yon anticipate in t.b near or 'r emote future an,y further difti ~
coJty from the race que:s.tion T'- A. ~ot at all, ancl if we, ale left to ,oo_r..
sel'v e ·. thing·~will 1 ery soon equalize tbemsel~ee.
,Q., ·Yoo are left,to .yoursel,.es now, are yun notf'- A . We ai~ now .
,Q~ All 100 ask is to co)ltio11e to,be. letaloue,1-A. Jo,s t to 'be l~t aloo• •
The Sooth,, with her natnr,a l resources . u1d ad.v antage -·, of climate and
soil~,f~lls, that she is,perfectl,y at?le to take eare,of herself and her affa.irs,
an,il all sbe wants,is 't bait. the legi ·•·1a/ ion of the ,c oun·t ry, both Fed,e ral and
State, sboold be that w·hich will mete out jo.s,tic.e to all her citizens, eo,1nFed a,s '.'ell as wli'i te.
·
Q. Does the ,Soutll fe,el as though all s,be had .got to do,·was to, ta·ke
care of be~. elf, or does she feel a little responrdbllity tor the other section of the oou.ntry, ..~ S 1e feel . mor,e 1mmediatel., . now ,r espons,i bilitl
for t-ha.t ,section, for 'this r,e01Son,, tbat the ne,g ro ,p opu,la iou, oft-he; Soutb
00 mpared · ·it-b. t:h.e white pop 1ation ,o f the SonU:1 might be a l1a·n .g erous
ele·ment, bnt,the 'Degro population compared with t,be whole white popu-·
,~ _tio,n of' the United Stat.es as, an iotegral ·b ody sinks into ·ns1g0Uieance..
The1e-fom, the foree·s which are at wor·k' in the Soot ·, to~day. mak,e, us
1S.t1"ongly' Uniou" - T~hey ·, re ,U,r ectly contrary to .·what were eiistin,g be:ftn~e the wa.r, and tb,ere are no 11eopl,e 'in tbis Go,ter ·ment t~da.y who
hav·e the s,a m e iute,r est in th.e Federal ·u nion th.at the JPOO.Ple of't he ,So. th ...
em States hD.v.·e, ,and t bey ap,1J1~ciate it
Q,. Yon. feel that i't is to your advantage tba't the negro population
s~oul~_ be dea·~t 'W itb 'b ~ t~~ f~y or Jif~~ miD,ion, or~.w.hi'tee, that,_ ~be
races,shou]d be balanced 1n th.a t proporti,on rather t,ban JD the proport.1on
that exists bet,w een tbem n,d the white population of the South ulon.e !
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A~ Yt·s, sir.
Q. 'T.b e central id·e a of the South is, a oatio'D l ~dea, t-he·o .. -A. The
ce.ntra.1 id · a of ·t he Sou .·· i . m.o re a national ide ·· now tha:- it bas llee,n
in this resp -et.
_ ,Q. I · ould use the word '" leading.., ra·t ber than ,,,c eo,t ral " t bere-tilt1
l•ing· i,dea,'! -A. W ,e, of' course, elai.m t'hat we. want to manage the
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BELA.TI0 . ·. BETWEE
1
T
LABOR A'ND C.AP.ITAL~
1
internal affitirs, of our :S tates just .tts 1nnel1 as _ e., York., or N e·w· Ha.m p .
lihi1-e, or Massaelt.11. etts ·wunl.d wa11t to H1aua,ge tbeh s, but thlLt i't is
necessar.,~tor us to Ju,. ·. e the gni<lauc~ an.d 1,n•,oteetlo11 of the Go·v ero·m en· :
:i.
w,e want it jut1t =ts u:1·nc:b a8, e·i ther of ·t bose :Sta te,8.
Q~ H.ave :.·on traYelt-~ coui~i(l~:r ably· t.h tougb 't-hP- North : A I haxe,.
Q. Wbat Jlo11ions of tbe Sorth lu,,-t~y,011 \'is.ited within tbe las·t f"-''
,~ears J-..i\., l ba\"e \~i.:sited. Philadel,11 1ia,. Ne·,v Yo1.·k., lloston, Hartford,,
and 1 ·mi~:ht s,ty a 11001ber of' ot.he·r :poi.uts in the State:s of whi-ch the. are th cbi~f eitie,ij.
Q. While ,ve are s11t,a'ki11g of · bis matter o,f ·r eciprocal feeling between
'tbe rSectious o:fcouu.try·, a~ you :h c11·,!'·e 1neu'tioued tb~ attitu,de of tb~ South,
I N)uHdd like to k ow lron1 )"O!l l, :f rotn yonr 1,.ter8onal. observ11t1on and
knowled-:e, wliat l~oo fin,I. to be that of tbe Nor·t'h to·,v.ir-d the South . A .. I tbiuk it is o.f the lti · dUest clu,raet ··rt I ha,-c 11e,-er in ut1y life b e,o
t1· ated. w·itb more consideration tba II I ha,.e bet:n ·b l .b . ut],·.11nen in. th.e
Ea,s t w·bo , ,11·e mo .t oi~·posed to tlJ~ .. South du1·i11~ th~ ,1,,-ar,.
. :·t rc1er
11,II. - ·~"' ..
.. , o ·r-· ptrson1lll
. ~
"' 1 cot1r1ie~,
·,.
b·,, . an
.- .
Q- 1ii •··Io no
s.1uJ,JlIj ·t, .o. ,'e-dses
..n t I tu
the ~x111-e~tHou of fer,liu.g as 'betwee11 th :•· Nt ct:'"oos,, tlu.-'! g ..,neral t ·udenc\·
and drift of' Northern feeling towar-~18 t.be s~,utl.teru 1•01ti,ou of tbe cou.tl~
t-1')·, to tbe people o.f tbe 1Soot b -A~ I t b iuk, NO ft1r a - I hll ve b eu .a ble
to observ,e, that the ft~I ipg iu the l:!} 1st to va-r, l '" the Soulll is , · g~urtiill
attx·iet.Y for ber•p,rosperty..
wu Id go o fi1-r us to s.11ea of i : ,'tt · H-Hxirt,~
ior her '1,ros~r1·v.
1"'..,.
Q - You think. fhe w.a r of seet1ons, 1s. prettJ muelt o,~ei,r · -A . I thiuk
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·• ! i , · . r
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1t fs obHte:rated., aud tor that reason I go b~,ck to tll'is, 1•oiut, that our
pro -1• .r its i.u•the So11t·h has, be,g un.
Q. y OU ba'\. e rd,ests:ribed with -o·m ' rn [nnten ss th . Cnnrlit·i,on of tb.ing~
a1noug tbe-piautersaud th~ \\"ho w~u·k 01100 th~ plautatiooSi. I shoo.hi
like b•· H~,k tl1is qntstiou t'urfbe1 " jP b. . th: 1. any o·t· the uegroet-l a.foug the
alluvial bo:tto1us ~re obtai.11ing o·\vu~rsbi.1, of lan.ds 1n :fe~-si1n1.,l.e ·•- .i\ . , Iu
, ie1·,,~ft,.w ius,ta11ces i H the all o \ i.a.l lauds . '\ Vhen the,~ muk e e1 •011 "'b. n• o 11 t"\·
to laui~ a bou10 tb .y g-enem11y go to the bill euuutry, wb ere laud ca.u be
1
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·b oo~ ll t at a m ncb morie i·easoual.de p. -i.,ceE
Q.. Witl1 , bat a:1noun.tor .accn.mn'IH:tion will a, neg10 ~ret up HO,(\ ,go
to
tbe billlfl 1--.A~ '.rh·_ oo al"e negroes rig·bt lo rny section of' the c~tuntr:r \; ho
1
I, a,. ,e au aecu111olatio11 clear ,o f all expen.s es of f~o,n. a tltoogaud. to ·.3,500
a year
Q.. Do tbe., ~re 1u1'iu or do theJ go :. 11d bus homesteads for tbe1n elveK A. Thr3~proba-by re1naiu until t,he) aecn1nnlate ,,
tbonsa · d tlolh1rs,
and tll }au go arid buy a ·borne. \\· e enc~ou:m·"t, it!\, from tbe lact th· tt
'\1'e wa1rt the 01bers. bebiud to
s t. im·ulated t,o do tbe .iiw,e thiugil
wUl rSa"t •·11 ·. hat ~onnect.ion that the f1itnre of the, ne·g· ro of the Sout.b is
~
t. 1ue
a ) II u VUl.11ll 'I,all('·1,S!!
Q. Tb _,- sc J)I anitatious J---A.. :·. ot only these pla-utationg partico larl:,-..
Wln,t l 1nea11 ·b v :1Hn,:1al ht.Htls a1.~ the aUn·,.ial lands on the coat:1it. and
te ·
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1tbe aUu,·htl lauth, of the Mis~,i.· Mil•tli Valle.3~, the rieh lau(ls ·,v.he1~e t ,·e
n~~grn relit~S
OU
hi .' ow·n e11~rg)
~I
Del e . . ·tiou
- rat ,-,er tbalJ ,on hf~. bl'J.iu~~
'I' ere iK all iunnigrati.ou c Jn1ng i.uto the older States n.ow.
Q.. T ·b e ohler Sout 1.er11 tntes ·.-.t'\. Tbe older Son·. b · ·r u Sta'ti.~. As
tlu~y come iu the uegro--K, gratluall~"' gi ··e wa :"and go to tbe,ticher land.s.
For in~tant~e, 011,c .n l'ilroatl b,st 3 ear brough.t .i oto tb.e Miss.bl .·ii,1>i. Valley
O\" r 1 1 tOO u~gru i ID ll Ii g1 an ts.
Q.. Froo.1 ":- but- Stutes •.- ·. 4 rom1the Athintic aud G·n·1r States.
Q. ·.· ha b~_ictu ·1u,.i. of t'ut■ n11-A,. TJiey ,v~re scattered along the allnviul lu11dtt, ot ·1·b·:· lliKsissit,pi. V.,Jiey.; .· \. tbe u~gr,oes of the 3'1issi~gj,()J)i
V:all~J:· ei th.er emit;rat~ frun, t .la.at ·, alle~ and go in d~eren t ~irec~tQDS1
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l 'll
RELJ..TIONS BETWEEN LA:BOR AND CAPITAL.
a d buy land, the p1aoters of tbe. · · bisissippi Valley :end ~o-o.t to the
older S,t ates and ·replace tbe• w1tb labor from th.ose States. A. n ,,g ro
in the o·l der S·t a tes, ·1•-r obably, ·to wa'ke bh;. support ·. ,o-nld. ha;v,e to ,e ulti ..
vate lo or ~o acres of laud, whereas a Hegro in f.b~ : :ig:,issi.ppi. Valley·
MD
·m ke b.' s Hnp1JOrt, oo 8 or O aeres, of laud.
,Q. 'Y{ill this re8ult in tbe ownership of the allnvial land.s, being tmns~
ferred to· the uegro !--A. ~ ·•·o, sir; because as he make~, money he goes
oJl:
·t,
~,a., •o
--..ea,n
. . ··· · by ~, goes
• - - Ou
· ..,,. h•_ce· ·.does
· - ·· ·
- , a_e· -is
Q
.· -•h,.1. ,n~ 1m1n1gran,1 - .A , 1 .m
-ot go ont O'f the.,S ,t ate, but he goes to ,·he hills.
Q. Aud to smaller ownershipij 1-A.. To smaller ownerships..
Q A1:ul the aim of tb.e Soutber.n i•;Ja;nter i ·.. to acoo1nmoda"t,e thia. teo.1deDCJ of' thiHgs to smaller rentiugs :- .A. Yes,, si.'r .,
Q. . o you ·1b1n·k a v,l antat·io,n r · more p,rod.uct.i ,,,e ·wlJei·e, under A ,gen ..
era) sn11e1·v:is·oo by·tbe p]auter or the owner.,,it is le't 011t ·u small aectionB
to the negroeM to cu.:tiv.ate, or is it br.tter to coltivate the p1autation a.s
a ··who.,le ~-A~ lt is bette1 to ·t et it out., ~~ I sta.ted in my written w1swe,r.s;o
The ,eotron. crop of 'bis couu.ti~y is being rdised 'to such aH ext~ut by
i:.nnall. w bite rJirruers that the lar~,e Jlhruter ean no lonaer- a:fto,n l to hire
.and compete "'itb that clas , _of labor who only expend their own energy;,
,conaeqne11t.ly the t~JJdeuc.y is to wake farmeir.s of the u .l(COOS.
Q.. W.b at.chanoo is tlte·re of the plaut,e r secnriug w·hite labor to earry
,011 these 1,lantatiou . f-A., 'Ibere is so.c h
sma I p.roport:ion of wb.ita
l.tbor in the South thrd; it w:oul,1. be diffl,e nlt :to.r :h im. to find tbam., and
the tide of jbreign i10migi-at1on is ju.st begiuniog to, oo tu.rued in that
di1iectiou. Them has been a prejudice. a.gainHt white e migrants. going
to- 'tb.e Soutb, ou acoount of' goiu_g among the uegroos..
Q. Do, yon think tha. is. dbninishingT-.Ai Diminis.b ing yearly·~
Q. Y,ou mean tbat im.migrat·on from Europe is bein_g ,employed. on
the plantation ·. t-A. Bot e.x aetlJ upo11 ·t he J.a1'"ge cotton ·p,lantatioos,
but the ama·1ter plantations are now bein,g converted into farms"' For
instance, there 'bas been a lait2'ti imlD·i gt,ltion of Enropea.H e1Qigranta
into thHt St!Ctio1 of the co,un.try· l,e· ween Little Ro ·•·k aud Fort Simi·· b ..
,Q_ Do they, upon thege tar.ms or smal.l JJlantatioud bei.ug oooveJFted.
i'uto farms, work in eoir.panion.sh.ip wit'h tb.e DJegro laborer,·- A, No;
tbey geuemll.l"' boy· the land aud work it tben1selve!.; 'they niay bire a
ne1ro and work \\·itb him., they are laborers themselvee.
,Q . Is there, .a,v teodenu.. among th.e w :hi'te ,a n.d •cu,lore«l laoore·r,. · of
any class. to W'Ork iu compan1oasbip, o,r to frat . rnize at all in labor!A. I ,c annot say that. there ·is. A white wan would ·n ot ·t ake a, . ·.e,g ro i.n
as a.1>artner to wor·k with. him in ·be. field ..
Q. An•d .·. ill a. white man ii'u,l a-uy difficulty· in hiring anotlHff w·h it,e
ma and. a ne:rro t,o, work together side 'b y ,s ide in t ·e fie.Id ~A. N·o,
sir; .I. h.av" th.em. myself working side by s.ide.
Q.. There i.s. no p~judice. of the.it k.i.od t·- A. No.ne at aU,,
Qi · o w·b ite man. inquires ,vhethef' he •Ca-a ·ork by bimself or is to
work in compauy witb .ai oe·g ro t Do tbtrr e· s:·hlbi •_uy reloctao-oo to,
work in Cf)'mpauy with the negro !-A, The. class of w'bite people that.
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w,o rk in -ou.r Cl•uu t1·y for w.1ge . COlP.es from. Olno. aod l\lissou ri, and Indiana, and th.at section of coo·nt:ry, and I find. 'tbe1-e is some prejudiee
among that class of people so1netimes,, but still tbere arie instauees-as
I sa:r, I have men frou1 Indiana now ·1nyself h :i red ·orhtng .r ight in a
tn1..ua
°-v·~e~·
.e with
·- · _; - n
- ~e-8
"""'v ■,
-
Q., T'ber-e is, ao strou_g teu(len.cy in ·t hat w., ,y, I snppo · ·f•- -·A . - o .s trong
tt,p,dlenc1 in tftat ·way·. T.laere ~~ .no· white 1a·oorers from the, South
,.
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
11'2
BELA.T'IOliS BETWE N LABO.B AND CAPITAL.
proper·; at least the nu ml1er we can hire for w ·ges is so, small tba·t it is
n<1t sufficient to call. i't a Class..
1
.
1
Q,. In tbe Soutberu States. p•roper about two~thir,ds of ·1be popub1ti.o·n
is white, 1s Jt1uut ·t -A. I do :not recol ect. . . 000rding ·t o tbe ·een,. us re-·
t·arne I tbln'k tb~e ·,r . about seven millio·os of negroc--sil 'Tb.e censns
wool d g1ve the exact statemen. ..
Q. }ij1ot 'far i roio 't wo-thirds of the populat ioo, I tl1ink, is white., In
the Gulf' Stat-es proper at ]~1st one•-,b alf the population most be white.
In. ,w·ba:t · .a:, is t he wh'i te laboring pop,u1at1on ,o f th~ 1S ontlt.em,p loyed t A.. The.y a.1e em·ployed. a~- small farm ers nearly al,most entirel,y,,
Q.• Not l,o u great e.x tent as meebanics and a'l1isans..- · ·,. I aup·pose
there is a liberal proportion of them. to the :popo1atio.n J we ha.ire 'to
ha, e 01tr· artisan .and mechanietS; but as, a rule 't be whi·..·:· ·po,p ulation of'
1
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tbe Sooth a re s,mall farmers, either ow.uer-s of the land themselv,es or
tenan.ts ..
Q. ow as to their material .POOS,per1t;:v ;n d thrift and saving !-,A.
It varies 'Very m,nch. For iust.anoe, take the State of' Georgia--and I
bebeve it is admi'tted that Georgia is one ot" the most thr.i fty and prosp.ero,oe of a.l l the SoH1,hern States-I think the smal farmers are generally self,sustaining·;1 they· raise tbeir own sup11lies..
,Q. Do, these ..m,a ll white 'fMme --·, em:ploy n.e gro he'l p to any ,es.tent ;I A. To a certain exteot. If a .man has .more land 'tb,ao his family can
work
he
Tu'°~
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•-•·st·- h·,1_·s-,
- .·. wUl ht~
- _.., ,..., a ne~
,b......... laborer..
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_ _ _ nrAii
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,do:10.g so ei.tber on the part of the farmer bi.ring him or the negro b.ired•.
Q. Be 10ay· hire som,e white an,d otb.. colored ]abore:r s, I snpposel•- ·
.A . Yes, sir.
Q. . Do tbey w·o rk togetberf-A .. Yes, sir.
Q, B.ow :r ·garo to the ·value of the biH. lauds yon have spoken of
in. the State of Ar anisas; as compared. ·. ith. the alluvial, w·h at is the
ditTerence in 'V.a ln,e1- :.·... It 'is ver:y . ·, ·.= ' .·t. T.he.re. are farms in .A rkanieas that cain be bought, partially ~leared up, with stfme impro,. . m,ents
opon th.em, for fr,0 01 : 5 to _,20 .an acr0, les than. 'the re.n t of fair lands
o,n the. river~ There is no ti't1er ,section of country i:n the wo1ld- l .say·
't bait unhesitatingly-for a,, forei.,g n inl'migra'D't,1or t'he i1nmigra.nt from the
East, or from ans where, titan is ,afforded to~day in .Arkanistts and exa
Q ,. A.n tl political db;turbanoes, you thin:k -are at an endl----A . We a11..
pr-ebe..nd nothing at all; there, is no, rea,, on ,,l1J,'' we ,should.
Q You were ,s pea'k ing oo· the necessi~y of tbe edncatiou of the:l ho·r ·
of tb.e So1Utb, :be ueg:ro especially~ Will ,Jrou not d - cri.be t:o, us tbe
act,ual wndit-ion of the masses of tbe colored fl ople i-· the 01atter of
education., to " - but ex·t ent it bas J>rogressed, ,a ud what fi1c ·Ht1es and
opportonities exi . t, au,d. what additional are reqo'iredT-A" lt varies iu
d:ifterent sections.. For inst.a,oce, Georgia nd Teunessee a1e. 11,robab,l y
,a b.e ad of any of the Southern. State8 iu po"'n.t of ed11cating the colored
people.; th . y ba,ve more faceilities; the·y have n.e g,ro prlmary sobools
an,d eolle.ge.,s where ·,. man is eduea"ted. The educat~on tbait I \VaR spea · iog of,, more partic_ularly for 't'be :n.egrn,, is a plain .E nglish education,.
,s u·Olc.ien·t to en.able hi.m to read. and wr·i te.
Q.. Wl1at we cal~ op . o.rth ,a. c11'mm,on~ohool educati,on 1-•A. A common seboo:I ednoa.tio, · I will illu.str•te that!! Suppo5e a negro comes
to m,e. to . · ake _a ~ntract that I ha ,e written .f or him, and h.e cannot
read. or writei. I otrer· that contract to him, and I read it 't o him:;; , 8
touches a pen. ancl signa 'h is mar·k to•it; ther,e is. no obli,ga.tion attached
at an. Be, sa~ iB at onoo,,, ' 'That ·man i$ an educated man;, be hag the
a.d·v antage of w.e ; h,e sho\\~ m·e. that oontr.act; I do not know· what is in
it; I eauno,t ev·eo read itrl' Tb,erefo~ a OO.Qtr.a et made with .a negro in
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
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__co. ._ n tmet
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and sign his o n . .n.• •e to it, i't,·w ould be a ver:y •d ifferent thing. .r · ne,..er
allo-w a negro to, ei,gn a written contract wi.·t h m.e before 'be has taken it
·home with him and had some friend to- read it over·a.od consult with
:h im about i't, beeause I want so·me obligation attached to m.y oontract&
,. necessary
· -·f1or
· you.
· as w,en
-- -- T, _ A.
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..·· _.a-.s, the. negro
-- --. .eoossary
. , n. as we II as .-b-· 1s4
~
my proteotlo.
Q., How 1nany· of the negroes.on the plantations ,c ao com·prehen.d a
..... ..,..,.,,_ _..,,,.,._ a meL
' ·- •e so
wn·tte
- -_ n. con t raet..',by rea.-di"',1 ng i"' 1f,■_.,, 1-..~
-~gu ma·y- b
. m.ewh__ a.- t · edocated and n.ot be able dec.ipber a. contract I-A.. l cannot give .YO'd an.
exact proporti-oo,, for it vajries to a great extent. I can only say that.
thait number is increasing rapidly ..
Q~ From wbat •Ci.rcuwstan.ce ,comes tbi.& incre_. __ ·:_l- •A . From.· their
desire to gain k-oo-w·Jed_g e•.
Q. Do you fin(I that desire strong .among the colored ·peo:ple't -A.
VerJ 1S trong· indeed_; and the.re are two, ideaa whie·h a, negro possesses,
that giv·e me great hopes for bis future - Ir .I did. ■ot believe ·t he oegro
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.
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w~ ca,pab].-e or·
_. so.I' -c1e.n"t d
. ieve ,opmen
_._ ma
-e b.
_1m. a respons1.
farm ·· r, I ,s hould not ·wan·t to :r emain in. the business tha·t I am any loqger,
beoa:use I believe th.at the de .elopmen·t of my bosinesa is necessarily
based upon ·t he developm-e.n t of the negro a.n d the cm1tiv ·tio,n of my
lands.. The negro poss .sses. two remarkable qnalifieation· ,.: ,one is that
b.e 'is imitative, and the O·t h~r is _hat he _.b~ · _got _pri.d e; . he wants to dress
well;. he wants to do as well as an1'body else does ·when yon get him
aroused., and with tbese two -qualUieatio.n;s. _. have vecy great hopes for
'h im in the. future.
Qi What do you think of his io.t ellectnal amd moral qualities and his,
capaci.t y for develop,m eot1-:-A. There are io,div'i,d ual instances . know
I
. d~~an dtak
f ., herenegroes.bavereceive
o_
... ___ en.a gooded.
. _ocation. A.
- sacB88,
'it woo Id p.r obably be-.s everal genera"tions, at any rate, before··t b~y woald
be able to ffll ·pete w.ith the Caucasian. I believe that tlle ne_
g ro,is capable of recei,,,ing aJJ ordinary E glisb. educ tion, an.d tlle:re u - ins.t ancea
w.here tb.e y en.t er professions ant:l beoome _good la·w.rers. F.or·instance,.
I kuow in the town of Greenville, Miss., rigbt across. t'be rive-r from
me, a negro attorney, w·ho ·i~ a ~ , inteHt ·eo·t m~n., and I beard one.
of the lead.iug attorlleys in Green,1 ille say he woul,d a.Im.ost ha·v,e a-nybody on the oppos1t-e sid•e, of · · ease rat -er than h.e would that negro,..
of mycount
Ohio,
be- im a man
·.·The.- · h~rilf
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.
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· from
- - - - ' and
--- a
- n~am
- """1:ili• --,-and
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whom w-e all ,su.p1JOrt in. bis office, beeause he i· _capable of administering
his oflieell w ·o are, anxion .· that the ne_
gt'IOes sboold hav,e a fair represe11tationa1 For ins;tauee, you .ask for tbe feeJing existing 'b etweeD. the
- - . p.r1,
_. e_-to
' ·.r ' an
.. di
·,· ,· ,-T_' h-e.proua
-- ·"--t";e•JD·d,· ge_,~
--- . · . fi". my
- ' conn
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.. . .
1,ro_ th··-.
...e .e.groes.
a 'oegro
a·otl one o:f my,· tenain·ts,, an,d I am ·here ·now in_;NfJW York attending to,
iutportant business for my county· as .a n .a_ppoi.ntee -of' that to .· n. Be.
ba8 ·o pon him the respoos'ibi'liti,es of all es.tates in the 0011.nty; he is,1>rob ·te Judge"
Q I~ be a capable man ·..- -A . .A very capable man, and an ,exoollent,I
,g ood rnau, aud a very ju c,t one,
.
Q,. .D o 3 oo ~ee auJ'·reason w h.y, with f ir oppoTtnnities assured to him-..
~ -lf a11d to bis cb'ild.r en, be may no·t become a -nsefnl an.d. compete t
A1nerican ciit izen ,._ ·· .. We already eooside1 hi.m so..
Q .._The qu,e.i.~tio . is settl-ed !-A. ·1 thoogbt you -e re speak.in_
g person.
al I -., of the m.ao I referred to.
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mng__qk-1'"'u· g o·f ' ·tIbs,
a-.a,
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ie
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Let me und-eri taod your question exactly.
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tbt~ American popnt1tion, may not, with a fair chance, ,oom,e to be useful_., i,udntittiou~,,.;._ ud uonapeteut to the discharg~ of t he.doti.es o'f eitizen ·
khi1,,·· -A. I thiuk the,y Hlay as a classt but it will t:ake. probit.bly generations 1tn· them · o .arri ,-,e at tba staullal'\d."
Q. I t ·has ta.·· .en u ·· g . 11 1-1•atious to 1 _.. ,r·e ·~t the standard, baa,it not!A 1:._..~, sir.
_
.
Q.. Tborc is. t,Ome ta1k abont ot ·r a:oce •.tors, ha.Ting been p·i rate·s , I. bes-,
lie:,: e, N'ow·, \1,i II :t·,o u ,S tate to us "~:11 at th~ C.Xl •ting~fuci Ii tiets for ed 'D·. "&,.
tion are among ·t be 11egroes -A~ I ,eau only s,pea.k as regarids Arkausal\l,.
Of toorse I do not kno,v u1ucb ol' t-b ·.· otb r - States. lo Arkansas we
ha,··e iu e, -t;b county n suhuol boa.rel.. 'Tbeoo boards e~amiue ,_od employ tea.cite.rs.
are ta ed for :_:_. .•c.hoolfnnd, from wbieh these·tt!ache·rs are 1•a i,d .•
Qj What llroportion or· the col!o red chi'ldR · ,·,ttend sc ,ool, do you
th'iuk )-A. o,u. .·13,. own 1>ro11e:rt1 theie aoo .fiv,e sch,oo .- , and I tliink
the la.r,g ~ portion, I might say near·l y alt that are eapa'b le of going to,
school, -do go to reboot
Q. , How·
o·w n propert.y
1-A.. I COlll«Jl
"' m.auy- children a ,·. tbere. ,on your
11
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,
-- ...·\· .form au idea,
,Q. There. a.re n,,.,e ·~ch,oo)H ·, -A., Ther.;e ar~ :live scboois,, aud I 1sboold
~
.
-
from 300 to 5tt0 cbildre.n.
Q-. Those are. educated in pub. ic schools.,_ .· .• Yes,, sir.
Q.. I. un.d,e rstood you to say that nea,r ly all of the,m attend · :- A., Yes,
&UJJipotie
sir..
Q. For bow loo,g a ·Ume '.acb year is school 'k ept open ·- ·A . Tue
se·bools ex.tend all th :.· sear· exce1•t \ aca.tio.n, I tb'iuk,. w.b ich is, about
t'b ree mootbs;, but a,nnwberof the negroes. will ,vit'h dm,¥ t,h e.i r ehildren
:"" ·_"' -· - -. -- t ·. 1 -I th
- _1m, sch- ooI d. ur1ng
·•· cot t on })ICK.1.nes
~ - ·• rr season,
·• 'k.. t h, e crop.
fro
o ie p _ m pie
Q Between 1\ba · age~ do t.bt':Ji ' autu.allj~· attend tl~hool !' A. Fn•:1n G
to 19. I k.uow a g~at 1uauy of them1 v.·ho a.· . guiug to St!bool wbo
a:re 11·, 18,, aHd. 10, wbo,,c<"IU j1us t, e,g in to 1 ead and write a little.
Q. Du yo,u fiud any iuc1iuatio.n among tbo. ,o lder negroes who are ft _ t
rscbool ag t,o endeavor to ~ad aud.·,vri.t e ',. A. Not ery 1noc·b , but the~
0 ·'1'1e a
- nx1·0-0 , , ·b
· 1.reu
r .. .n.·1.11, , t a·r d a1•'fWl,ll']j,,,
..,11,. them
In ul
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instaimce wh r a ,au bas a cbUd. ,~.rbo ea n read and . , rite, be will bring
him along l\' i th bi1n whe,H he .ma.keiS a COH tractr., Tbey are very ()fOOd
of their chi.l<lrou b~•i ug t11bl~ to J"t"ad aud ~rite.
Q. Are they · uti ·Hed, as a rul~, wit'b tbei1· simply b ,comiHg able to
read and wri ·es, 01· do t hP) · like to ha,,.e t.1ll1'H) rua'k e a litt'le further· 11rogre ,· , 1u m:a thenurf ·. ~., •' 11 -0~ 1·a 11hy, ,& ,~· I-A. · ·s .a class tbe,y ·bx,-,~. to, t:hem.
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simpls to re:a I au,d wr1te1 T .h ... y , .b1nk wh~n tb ·,y ha¥e got that fa::r they
kuow 6\"erytl1iuo·; bu·· tbeu t;her,,. , a1le certain oues w'ho have a·mbitiou,
j11 · as it 1:s, \Yitll our o,vn ra ce. 'fbt~re are ome men who b:3.ve ta;stes
for J1terttture. and. r~eeive .,, bctt -:r dueation thau. ol'bers do. bnt i. is
not tbe sa1n~· 1u·o1,ortiou ot :rhe uei!r,o i·a.;e.of course that it is··with our
own. Tber ari :i ustanees ,vhere uegr,, s are al~o an·~ ions to obta,i n a
colle.g iate etluc.Jion, and becon1t Nchool t ac)1~r
Q. I ll·o uut k1H1\v ·t lu,t ~ou • re ahl e to 8, a.tt): to wb ,t e·xter1t the,y· ac1
11
11
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t.nail . at tend s,~hool i u t b _ bill. di . ·t.1:·ict~ .- .-\. l atH not.
,Q. Yon ~11ca k both , , f ~\ on1· o,,. n J>l· utatiou ·'. a.ncl of other pla,ntnti.ous
as w :· 1 ns J 011~ own i u tlurt 1·~.~~,-u'(l . -.\ ,. · · , 01 p a king of tho alln,;>ial
lauds alon.i~ the l'is~ iss.11 pi ll?i.,··er,
Q - In Arkansu:s ..- · .. . Not ou\y iu _\rkausas, but in I,oui.s,'i ana andl
l\lhs ~1~sip1li; I \l''i'H .s~1-'·· t ht"I aHnYi•1,I nutls on the llu, ·JMs,ittJd Rive.r ·be..
·t.w~~u Me1n1•hi ·' umul \·a•ict,~'l,nr;._.
Q.. .Are tbu ueg1,-oc~, u ·, 'those.hunts. ,g · n :Arally hCJ riog tbe, aame oppor.
1
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
1
to.Diti,es for education that they do on yoor· plantation 1- A. Oh, yes,
them-is a COID WOP school S,) "'rS 'ttam.,
,Q:. A.n d it i:s; as prevalent iu Louisiana and. l.l:is issip_pi as in Arkan.sas !'- .A.. I ·_hiuk· 1t is
Q. Wbat is the nativity of t ose teac·b ers, as a rule,1-A. Tbey are
generaHy eoloretl peo1:>le fro1n e1tb.er the Eas·t or,the .Northwest. T.here
are. soule fe wbite t~a.cl1er~., but v-e ry lew.
_
Q.. Are- any· ot the ,vhi,te teachers 1S outhtrn in bi.r tb 1-A. There .i s
ot a. wbite teacher on wy own property _; tlJe:y are aH colored -r~acher& o·a
1ny owu 'Pt+oJte1-ty. The 11roportion ,o f white teaebers i8 ver3-r sul,aH.
Q!! .D ow ·n iul!b do t .bese colored teachers themse1.,~·,et1 kuo,w !-A. :3ome
Sir ;
of tlt,e:m are remark,a bly 'Well educated.
,Q:t A id ge01erallyearuestlyde·,..01@d to their work ·,- A. Pe·r .fectl3" so..
Q.. (Jr u;, it silu.ply to get tbei:r mouey 1- A.. No; I thiuk some or them
really ltav,e a deidre to see tbeir scbolaris advance,~
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Q :some _p ride in tbe.ir race, to ha¥e theDI ,g et, on~ I suppose 1'- A.
I think there is, a certain ·p ride ·i a that respect;, aud, a.g ain, 'th.,y want to
,.a iu rep II ta-r.io11 a :. teach.ens\.
Q '\Vhat co·m1 en~atiou does a teacher get . - ,A . I 'tbio·k: abou:t from
. 00 t·o e ,100 a motatlt ..
Q. Do tbe.J paJ" th.ei.r own expeo~es, board and sbelteTt-A. Yes,
sir; bu. buart) IS v-ery cbea·p 1ner,ily bOIDibal.
Q. ..·~.hour what mouut f-A. I .s bould r,, __ y tbese teae'h ets ean. get
bottrd tor $.10 a H1on1 h.,
Q. ltl •·h.e c.o~t ,of clcJthiog 1n your pa.rt of th.e, conntr;;\ about the .s ame
as lle1-e t- A. Thi- is our market. "' gen.
_.e. c Ior h'"
,1ug Iar,g e,Iy {!or t·..he popuI,a t"'100 111.
Q ., .. on l Ull t 1-_te read y mad·
erdl,1I 8Dll,11ose f-A. W,e bt1y both ready-mad,e ,cJo··hiug a.nd ,c loth ~lo
1uake up.
Q .I snp11-0~e the eo1ored po11ulation hard•,5· bo ·-. e.nst-001 ,goods '! ~
A . rn~at 1ua:n,y of t.hem. buy t:be cloth, aud sowe of tlleir wo1ueu arc as
~ood t.ai'l oress~s at1 ) "OU y.~ould find anJwbere. The)- buy tlte c]uth aIMI
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a e. 1t ·n p t1Jeo1~elrts:
Q .. Tha·r, uau.st briu1t a s11i't of clothes pretty cheap in a ct'" lored fam•l)";
lht\r 1· ~aUy e1qJet1d uotl!iu_g but buy tbe clol'h tbems~I., t!'S f -l \ ,. Tlle5
st~ll \: ~1 J; ~uod jea11s cloth there at 35 or 40 ceut s a ,ya1 d ; t heJt ~ 'n erull:y
,,.,·ea,. jt a11s.,
Q.. .i\ II e.,t8on~, of' tbe , ~ar !-A.. Generall J11" iu all seas,ons.of tbP :rear.
11 thie ~lunu.1 r titne a J-1boi-in1r maH hardl, ~ver w,e.ans a coat at alJ.
'Q t W bat do•:sou tlli u'k u.n. a V'~ t age •~olored Sour h~ru l.;1bore.r Xl)ends
I' r a.nuu10 t~or his clotbiug, ay t.be :h ead of th faul1ily.'! tb1e milH- ·hat
do ~s i't e~t Ii m tor ,~Jot bi 11 g ~ Jfear,t·- A I eaun-ot gi ,•,e Jou .a tlt:'flrn ite.
a.u~·,ver.. I \,~u1 only sa,. that \\'e ,vbo are, the ·p roducers of cutton ar,e
,-crs gl iltl 'to se: ti• t 1u ,g,et· in R pros,1) ~ rou,s condition in or le·r th·1t th ere
1.nay be more eon un1ption,, and ,vheo .a mall is .1•rospe1·uos be wHl buy
two ~uib; of t,.lotbe, , wb ··r•:'- if he i.s uot pros1>er-ous hl" ·" iH n1ak(* ou ·· do•.
Q. '\Ve, h: ..'\'"e l1ud a ~00tl deal of testtmo:n. • a-s to w haf it .actn ·']I)· costs
a ·N orth ~rn Jabort r .: )~ear for clot bi Hg . I b ave ·· .o deRil1) to show t b11 t
nuy laborer . dres:..q cheai)IJ' or i~oorlll,-; I n•e~lr , a:nt to, g,e t an i.dt~·, o,f
the ri . 1at,i, e cost of :ht, labori og m~ n liviu g· N·ol'·tb or South., iu tlle item
.of ,c lotbinu :- · .• Io· n seH and do sell il uian a puir of jeans pants aud
~- •coat fron1 $7' to ·_· 12 11 .r suit!!
Q,.. Ho' r many ,s nits. ·w ill he want in a yea'F T- A .. Tbat wUI. tle1wncl on
his C:011tU.t ion and II is a,hilir ,~ to p-A,.. 1ne;i If b ·_ 1.M I - l'lfOt-.rJ-lert IUS 'mU H and
be,g i·u.n iu g 'to aceu m1u Int e II o ,v. i ·1I- 1n·1li c one do I Ii 01 ~. - \V ,Itert•\'"i ·r a uo~rro
begins t,o aoeumulate he,,goes to extre1uPs; b~ dots not want to buy auy ..
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thing; he \\,.,a : ts to aocu · ulate rap." dl,y . W .h ere a m .a n1i1-not d.o ing so.
·weH, and there is little doubt of· .hUJ aibility to pay, he would probably
want se, eral .sui't, ·;· bn '. I w·ou1d confine hi·m to one ,o r two,.
. Q;; The same is trne, I so.p,pose,. of ht . w'ile and e.bild-reo ·-~ A. .es)
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y,ou 100· · on the matter of clot&ing as a mo.c h ·iess, ,expensiv,e
itern in the laborer,.. acooo-o.t ·i.o y,onr country thau here in the, North
·w here tbe, cli'mate is ,-,older, I snpposet~A.. Ye-.s, .siril! What absorbs
th.e profi· of the laborers] • ,ith ns, is their want of providence;, that is, •
if' th0\~r _ge't surpl:u s money they throw it away for useless. articles.
lt, has 'b· en sugg,est,ed that a postal sa· "ngs ba·n.t might he a good
thing·.aa a place of de.p osit of' the gma11 · avingM of the colored population
of tbe: Sooth; they. :might feel som,e confid.enee in an institution of tbat,
kind, and th.at,·i t, would be :··, beneficial thing to them.. Wll at,•is your
,o wn judgm,e nt !-A.. I advoca te it and , pprov,e, it, an.d indeed p,r opose
to eta.r t a savi.ngs. bank in oar own neighborhood1 Io this eonnection I
will mention another import.a:ut f.eata·r e. In the Mississippi Valleyand when I spe3k of the Miss,i ·sippi Vall y I ·mean. ·ooth sides. ,of' the
river, Arkansas,and Loni sian a ,on one.side and l\lississi_p ,p i on the other-there are numb -rs of negroes who have,oonsid.e rab,le.aoonmula;tions and
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use the.i r surplus to adv.anoo to other negr.oes. ~or i~stanee, there afe
negroes ·r ight on ou propeTty .ho have acco·m nlated . nough ·w. help
out certain. o,'thers, as th,~y ex1ll'esB it, m1,,d tbey use, their money, as an
investment iu that ..ay For instance one negro wb,o has got 1SOmetbing
will ad.,~-ance ·i t t.o a.-oothe·r n ,gro and t ··k.e a · ort,gage on hi.s,crop., ·Coo~seqoent1y there are nmm'b er . of them. who are getting ad .·. anees from
their co~ laborerst an.d I al~ya icive them th.at opportunity ·w hen they
want 1t Ky idea of the..adjustment .i n the ,; i:ssi,ssippi. Valley, seeing
what I eau. ·m ake from the me.~cantile portion. of my· busiues.e, is. that
it ts. · impl,y my revenu.e that I g·e t fro,m tbe rent of' my· Ian.d as a·n in·v estment on my ,c apital;, and whencv·e r a negro ,can get hi.a own mex-ch,a ut in New Orleans-a. number of tbem have ·very g-ood factors in
·. ,ew Orleans and sbip thei.r cotton d·i rect-1 encoura_g e i~ When one
:ne.~ o wants to help out anot'ber-,, I giv·e him the p·rivilege of doing 1t
an.d eHcoura_g -: it. There a·r-e several uegroes, a great m1any,, no·t a few
i1 · Chicot Oount.y· t~-da_
y w·ho b ·· ve_t1=ieir own thctora in. Ne.w Orleans,
.sb.ip their own ,g-ood.s,. and reeeive their own aooou.uts of sales..
Q., Tbey aTe n:ot owners o-f allu-,'ial land. T-~ They .a re· not owners
at all ;, the, .are tenants•.
,Q@I . snppose 1&0me time t ·h 0y will be liable to ·m ake som.e. ac.e-nm.ula,.
tiou .·, ,. an,1 the.l r will uo,v ancl tben own. a pla.ntat"on !-A. I d.o k:now o'f
one instance
'th · .ive-r belo _ icksbnr,g wh.@re the old llroperty of'
llr.. Da,·i was bonght by a former slave of' bis. .
Q~ Is that tb,e onl i'D' ..taaoo .· .1.\ Tbe 01dy ius.tan.oo I koo . of..
Q, One question 1,e ba,e 'b 011 aoousttHned to (lnt i. · ·a s to the actual
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11erso al 'feeling tha·t e·· ·ists. bet-ween_tbe labowrs., ud ,capitalists, of' dif~
fe1ent pa,r ts of the couutr!l• ,,. . ha't is tbe feeling b .. tween the laborers,
colorf)ld Abd bite,, an.d the own~·r s of' th _ bthd. :and of capi.tai. at tb,e
1S onth 1 At I conftnc iay re11Ues 'to my owu aectio·n, becaose I a:m..D.O·t
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f. , 111il·i ar w·i th tbe others~
have aus·w er d that q11es1t.1on in t.'he w1itten
l1armo111ions and go d,. as I have expressed it
ans.,rers,.. The feeling ·is
ther,e. The neA'ro :oat.uralJ:,~ looks to tbe ph,nter for adv,ioo and fo,r as,.
sistance, an·d tlie p'lante,r loo-ks ·t o .bis la-borers for· the ,deve1•o·p ment of
:bi ·, prop·_ rt.y. Con.seq u.e:n.tly tbeir i ut -rests. a:r e identical a·n d their· fee] ..
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i,·o g . good~
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Q. You have alluded ouoo or twice to the, pressure of out&lde, and
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:BELATI,ONB 13-ETWEEN LABOR Alt» CAPITAL.
suppose North.e m, opiniO'n; I assume that, yon, mean ·politieal opinion
iu the IKIS,t and t , e desi'm .bility that, it should cease. What is tbe fact
as to a ·p rogressive.disi.utegra.tion of the solid Be-p nbliean or· solid ue,l!lO
vote. of th.e South I ·.. · hat .are the chances o,f' its (1.viding, and of the
white vote dividing I We bear no· - of a"' solid Booth," 00l01ed on the
· one si.do and white on the other.. What pros:p ect i . there o,f a ,tivi.sio,n
I'_D.
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1"'t. exis
1s
on.t- A._ Th
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ne,:rues ot" tlie Sou't'b ;a re already div'idoo. in t'heir votes. The11e are a
great man,y who , . . ote ·w·it.h. the proprieb1rs of the _p roperties" Ther,e are
instance · wbere t'hey vote with what t'hey call their' Bepnbliean friends.
A fe'w years ago i'D be Soutll any man wJio,was an, escaped oonv·rct fro-m
ouc of l~oor peniten iaries :be.re w.ho, would come down to that eountry
ilnd toll ·t :l1e ne_
groes that be w,a,s one. of General Grant's soldiers, and
1ought, to free him,, w·ould vote the last one o-nt ~ but any oft·b ose negroe,s ~ 'O ll ~d eome to me at ·that ·.·ery time with hi'',mo.uey arul get me,
to s _'\ re it for bi•n, and tak .· care of it for him. H,e would. put all .bis
confidence i11 me , o far ,as, his ,monev Waft concerned,, but when it came
to tlOlities be would vote with this man, who prol,ab1y did. no- O'WD the
l~O-d.t he lu1d ou 'hi _. ha.ck·,, Those kind of inte1.ferenees w·r re ,,.·h at did do
us 1n the 1S ouf , _ery 11uiteriaJ da.'mage~ Let me illustrate that by a 1iot
bi. 1oy ovlH cou n't.y.. Io. Chi.cot Coo utJ , in 1872, there was a proposition,
to im1,ose upoH the ,ooun't ~' a railroad ta ·-. of 1250,.000 for the ·porpose of
'b uil'd 1ng a r,ailr-oad~
Q~ What propurtio·n of tbe ta.x·a b,le p:ro,pert.y of the. county WO'u1d that
IHl\"8 lwe·n !-A.. Our whole B6Se88ed valnat1ou wars a.boo.,_ 11,,5 001000 at
th.at time~ This was 'b rongbt out by a 1,romh;e that if the ap·proJtria.tiou was n1ade the levees oo our river s:bou.1-d be, built aud this ·r oad
wou]d run on the le, 'H S. -· · t t'bat time r'b e "~bole of the local goverq ment in Obi.cot Count~l' was i.n t,be 'h and, of m,e u "ho did not o .n any
pro1.-ert.y in the coontJ, and hadjost ,c ome down ·th: _re a11d 'b een elected.
hs the ue:brroes, w.ho bar e. a 'rery large majority in t-ha·· oooot~r~ Th is
tax wa~ a, ,·cr:.Y- ,g mat, imposition upon us.. · .t tha.t tiu!•S tbere was .a
n egro attoro~y at Lake Vi.11ag .1 who wa1S ,oue of the pri,m · m,o·V"ers in.
this thio,g, Tbe p·l auten kne-,,. that tllii s ,va. . on1y 111t . ,oded as a speeu1
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lation 11.pon tbe coon-:,~, for t'he lote ·. as after ,¥a rtls tak,en,, tl1e ap·prop,riation ·was. mad,e·, and B:ot one foo-t o,f levee wa - p,nt up, au,I ncJ't one
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or that raHroad. 'Wa..~ built i.o Cl1ioot County.
usetl now
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S,tUl \\",e a 'r e. mandampot oo us 'by that 'k ind
tbe iHterest on tba:t de,b,t that \l'as
of' i.nfloence. One of our pl :nters, "1"88 nmoostmting ,vith this n:egro
attorney, abou.t, this debt, and told hi.m 'it wa~ au 1m,position.on the 1•rop.
~rt.y ov.:-uem, and fha't 't he thing oug'h·t no-t t ·. be ~oue, when the ·man
beea;me l .i olent an;d inso,Jent, and, it, r . sult ·d in a difficult_· betw,e en th:,
p,l anter autl tbe negro. Tbe planter had ,a lit.tie pen~ knit,e,in his JJock,et,
tile b1• de not longer ·t han my little, ·f inger; , e 1Strnek the negro wit'h it
and Jt :happe.aPd HOci,dental.'ly to hit him on a ·._· ital point and killed
b,im. The .s berili of t:be county W'88 a ne,g.ro,. The 11Ia,n.-ter,,, with two
~ 1i nilhoc:ra
ho-1aa
t th1e- coun
-- t.y~,
I•nnAnAn t pa"'•1"'
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1 .~ t· ,b. ;;, ,C'i,AA,il 'l 'i!iil'!l,O,n.i!ie too
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seat,, in Lake Village, was a;rrested and lodged in jail., A fe·w days
stt.e,1·wards-probabl3r not-mo~e than 't wo or three-nearly every neg.ro, in
tl1atcounty · as 1summo 1.ed to La'ke ·v illage, and they rose like so many
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locusts, eomin;g i.n from e,v ,e ry direction., took. those tbn-A@ m n out ofjail
shot the• to pier.es,, .·unlered tbe1n. It was,1ucb. an outrage that th.e people from Memphis and V.icksburg,and from the hill_eou-ot ies,oommence<l
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ii.te
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t_o ,come 1n
_,· Cfe \l·t·th
.:_ ·. eompan1es,
SMf
".·. , I_ d~ ,own , ·1,. th
. companies.
inveatigatioo we found out that ·t he sheriff o,f the county had exereised
bis authority to ,s end Ollt to the ignorant negroes of the ooun.t y· aud
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somn10:n them ·t o the ·· i.l'Jage, aHd these. fe)loars wen·t 1,,poause. the•.· · ere
afraid uot to obey fbe t1Jand ate of t.he s 1Jie1·itf. ,\ t that thHC' -~ eli n,g was
runuiug l ers· h i_g b, :a.all t be·.s e, peo11le w-ere .,1 n xiou~ to icom@ i H aud 4oell.
'this 1i;o-:-t, ba · a fe·w o:r us who wcrie more. 11ru.d,.~nt, ;t (\\"of the lt!ading
p,lau t,e rs of tlle con u t,y , 00u · to,g ·~ • her, · eH t tll est, d iffer~.11 t com n 1u1.olCMwonJ not to oom,e there, tibat ,,~_·. did not ,,·au·t the:n iu the t~unt3 ; ~omo
of the cow.panies w·,ere ah·,~atl.r on tl1~ir ",..ay to Obi.c ot Connty, 'tbin'k1ng
the peo_p-le the:-e ,vere going to be u1a8$1Cf,· ct A great u1:aHy of our
people i,ad ro run a·,vuy fl"o.w tb ·i,~ ho:·11~:1 to1-- sevt~ral tlays; ·bu.t 11.-e
took the grnnncl tlF t ·we ,vould Je:,,t, tll, fhiu,:: tak it'. 11aitu1~J ~onne,,
As soo11 :a·-~ th i••gs qniet,._ cl do,,~11, ,,thich t bt&y l1 id tlo 1,art iaDy i.11, t hr,ee
or tour da3 s, sou1e of' 001· J{ -.·utle1ueu ,:vho h:uJ _g onu off w·i tlt tbeir la·mi~
lies retnruetl, _· .· ud it rt1sult,1ti in our a1•r,t•s.1·i11," :a ·t· .·. ,;v· of 1hu ri11,rle:Ml~'!r s
1.0. tbl' count~··. Tb.e courts a1u.d the udu1iHi.s tn1tion ,ve1~, all at tbat 1ime
iu tl1.· ha.ad~. of person·· not bl,&ut·i tt ·d. wi·tla the in r .- rests of the county,
aud it, , .as ilnpussi ble fo.r Uij to, g~t jus'ti ce ,01 · tt" d out. \"V ~ su ,·ed a. 111 as,
sacre of" the negroes of ·tl1 con 11t),·, but .~,_, never uould bri Hg tho~ m.en
'to ,a ny . n1d of Jlnui~.ho1~,u t beti,m the ton1·t~, ,i 11d ftuallly l\'" e ,e~1,11e. to
a uo1n I •rorn ise w i tb tlt t11n, t b ~1 t if tb ~ y ,,~on 1~1 l >.a \'"•a. 1h~-con u t _y ,ve, \VOnld
witlulr,,w th :: snit aga.iH~t thtrt.,m, utnl th.at , ,,as tbe. '"·f ·y tbe thing \t';tS
ended. No,,~, I ,d o not behe,·e )~ou ,t•onl,l ,:et 01, a riot iu Obioot Connt,Y
beuan · ,e I f hiuk ·t bt-~ a1-e 111a1,y i,nt,elliJ:,t~nt 11egr-oes thcr ~ who wonid.
not IH:tl wit it.. T IJ os~ n r0 't.11 e k iud. of i·acu issues t ba:t I re ft-rre.d to
B,e.Ji ~ ,~e ns 01,• hat · .ort oi" t bi H_g ,i and lea, ~t.-1 ou1· ,~-o,~·e1·n 1neu t to 011u·se.l ,r s
;m, I. on r 1,.>eo1,le, a od gi ,-e to the uegro the sam" Jn·, ,tect iou tile whit,;
mc1u bas,, bu do Hot giYe bin, nny w ,o re. .D o uot ·1 t Lim iel"'l thnt- he
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hiLN tJ•,~ U11i ted S1·t1t~s Goi ern 1uent ,sta11,ling belli1Hl bi1n, and t bat be
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is 1be child of t.b o Unit~tl ,~t~atcs Gu, erume·11t to be ta.k,e u -c -1•e, , ~f. but
that he 111ut1it n~·I,~., ou bi.s O\f·n r,e~ou:rers, a11tl tla.....rgy fbr Id· U·,. i.ng, a.u d
tho ". ,vi II ~Iv·e lbe ,q ues'tiom ,, and. tbe dtmaud for hi~ labor w i l I In:"Ot•e et
'b.·.1
"'.m.
Q. Do J"'OU find that the feeJi11g among the negroes which. resnJted in
·t he ~xodu~ of few Je:l l:r~ a~o luts heti":1t aHa.J 1e◄ I and ·ppr-ln1 ps .has dis8)Jpeared ·-A" I "tlill f,e ll ),"OU some'lhh11g fl1at is rather amusiu,g ab.out.
t but., The ti 1~t t b d) t I lu.~ait.l of ·. n~_g ro ex011lus iu lH,y se,1tiou. of t'he
eouutry-i't ,, as, to K·1nsas-,.....,v.us my u1anage.r 00111i Uf! into my morn ouei
DJ,o rtnug au<l ·. ayinf[ tha:~ the 1Ie~.roes Wtire ,g oing ont to tlu . 'ir i.v r to go
to Kans~s I ,s aid, '' lt ·i8 ·. e,:- e·r nl mH ,.s, to tbe 1iver; liow a1·e they go~
in g 1" Sahl he, '' Tbe;y a1~e. toti 11 g t ht1i.r th iu.g-M ottt on their· II 8lld .•"
81;;1-id. I,, , ' Go rigl1t at once tbere rt ud oft~r the.in t ht:- wagons on tht, ·p lau-t :,tiou 'to b, ul tbe Jliug,
Wha~ i tlle mattert·» Sa'id he, '' I don't,
k11ow ; l ·~,-ent 011 t thiH rnorniu g and sn n1tnoued the h:1 ods to tbe -fie.Id.,.
but 'the,~ say ·theJ are all :.c,oing to Kaus.as~" I got ou n:•~r ·11orse and,
rotle out and met a 11egro ·who, ·h.a•l hel•H mir enJrin . ~r.. I ,sai.d. to hhn,
'' \Vhat ia the matter; where a1·u ~·ou all gob· g ·;'' Be stoJtJ.led right
on the road and :~aid, ' llr. ·C aUu,nn, yon ue\: er ha,.,e d.ecl:'i, ,e d 1ne:, and.
1 a10 going to t J l yon ,·l1a. t i~ tb e I iat ter~ Th ei-e l\'e.re, two m:~n came
tb.ron gu be1"e ·1a,s t ·week,. 0-1 at 111 g ht. a O.ll sai, I ·' I on see t bi~ 11ict nre,' There
bs a. 1~,i ,c tnT0 ot'' a filrn1 iu ,·.. '1,.11sas, fot'" me t l1at G t nera I. Grant, ha · bought
out tbere fur n1 ..
b·•1t i ~ 80 be,ra11~t~ 1ny uj1m, ·_ is, 011 f he back of if~, aud
b · Jr~ i~, n1J i•·k et; th.at c~irri.e s 1n · to K·nu~~-,~}' S,a id .I , u LPt me Hee it."
H ·: sl1owt?d :rne· a 1~i·ece of l,>«1:st~hoaril thjit hi1 d 1•riHti!d on it h Good ·t·o r
one. trip to K.an~~•s. . ,, S a~d I,. ' ~\Vlutt. di.cl you 1,ay bun for fhis , .,, He
,sah1,, " \\,~e· 11aid h·i mn ,$2' Hr,i_,(:lle.e . ' '-'·.I I o'.U·· nt.•u1y of ,·0:n are in th is thingt"
"Oller e.ight-v ,o·t.. u~ a.re in. this thin~..'" ' ·_ ai-ll I, ·, That 1na11 then sv.·io dlec:l you out of 8160 ; .h. was an iw.posto:r i ·1he1·e is no farDI ·ooogb·t for
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
you in KanNa&"
· sa:w that ·tbe time; for, me to remonstrate with the111
·w as uot then .; they we·r e ,on thei·r way to, the Mississi.p•p i Riv,e r, aud r
.l et ·t bew1:all go~ After th,e3t got out there I w~nt and ex:p ostulated ·w itb
the111 ; told th,em ot" the ditrere11ee in climate, soil, aHd everytbi,oa else
t·b.at they were aooostomed to, .a nd that if -tbey we11t tbe·r e many of
·t hem ·wuol~l lose their fa·milies a,n,d children. They " ould not listen to
·m e. They weut on to the ri,e·r bank, and ·tbo . e negr-oes who w ,e nt- out
t'here. owed. me o·ve·r ·l •t0,:000 .
Q...Ho,w many of them, w·e m. lllm:et Eig.b ty· I think yon said.!-A~
O ft l1·t~~f
- 1"' - o·. n•~
. ,ui.~hap._ a,
T.'h-:ea-~ ' V-we.·liia
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_ 1· ...~ , , tbare,·we·~ 1n.o I J ~Ut~JCJ
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u1ore,, on tbe, bauk or the river. They wtn13 not at a regular .landiHg..
The " went out to the iuter.u1ediate poin.ts where -~' boat would ·n ot be 0001 ·
pe-lletl to hiud. We 11oti:fied all ·t he boats comi'ng or• th.e ri,"er not ·t o Jaud
at this pdiut. - did not wau·t these negroes to go oif, being sa'ti ti~
th.at thes · ,ere going·to tb.ei.r ruin if theJ"' did.; ·t hat ·they were leavi.ng comfortaib le hom.e s; many of them had sold. their mules or giv.·e.01fbem a.way
at a me:m sac,rifiee. One oe,g ro .sold a mule.worth -1,100 tor ,·-:15 to get ol'f.
Tll:e;y· opened their potato..'bouses, they· opened tbeir e.orn-cribs ,a.nd scatt ie red tlie oorn., giving it away to e~e ybod.v that w·,ould offttr then1 fi"'We
' ,' .'- a. b·ushe..
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,· .. .e·,.u ·t,wo
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. ' th
' peop_,e
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.. JLet:e
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,· f_ 1Bl,IJ
'"'-d· , th_1e
eents
. ese.
prodoctioos o,f all ,of w'h ich ther were to have for bringh1g :L into cHlti.vatio-n atad. imp·roving it. Knowing ·the negro n:atum as I ,do, and k11ow-ing tha-t be would n.ot want a11ybody t-o d.,e rive th.e beue6,I of somet.hiug
th.a·t he tbo1 ght ·be. was entitled to, I got t ·wo w·hi.te 1nien in tb.e count1y
to, come aa<l offer m-e to take tb.'"a piece of land and colti·, rale. it 011 rs hara;
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witll n1e,. gi.ving 1De one-half its pmd.llct, whereas with. t.he·m I . a.sen~
titl,etl to-1:o tbiug. A -- soon as th:ose t·wo•fellows found out tlJa,t I bad
mrul~ a. gOOfl bargai.n for tb.eir land they ?tent back h ,o m·e from the ri,-e.r
·bank, an.d as ,soon as they weut back all tb.e .r-est tlJ,l owed.. Theo I
called. the whol,e,plantation up aod told fhem 'to ap,p oiut t"·o repr-es I ta,~
ti,"re& a11d. tba.t I. would seud the:m to Kansas. at my o , n ,expense to exam1oe into, this 11u1tter au report, to rbe:m,. 'fhese two 10,en · ~·n ti to
Kanttas, came!back, aud reported the true eood·i tion of ·1,ffa·i·rs; ;i1nd now
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if what they call in that country ''a poor white rua11"-the. ne_
goo's ex.. -..,Hl),Q
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woe
-,_ ro·u g·h t e aag ot•e
Kan~d
.,. , :'Ii, ·• I·i.Dy 'mo
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='"' -o·n d govs U, ~ s,
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want,.to 1nob him. Tb:at was.. the teii.n.lt, of 'tbe :Kausas mo-,. :11ue11t1
Q. What has. become of those who w·,e nl to Kan~gf-A,. lla11y of
tbem
returned a.n.d ma·n y b.a,..e tlied; numbers of tbem ha,,.e died.
Qaite a large nu.m be.r ·wenl from · .·.· ash·i ngtou Coo11.ty, M.is.sis• ippi, just
op(Hltdtd to me.
Q From time to time, at-Was·bi:n gton, eff'orts are heir•:, ·n ·ade to seeore pnbl ie landg i II the T,e rritories, the Indian. T:e rri·t or,y and ,e lse 1· be1·e , for
tbe. fJUrpoNe of 00·10:nizi.Hg such tracts. ,,-~th negn:ws. Do you thiu'k 1:be1e
ht a 11 ~~ sort of occasi.on for· that ,-A.. :N one 1n the. world~ I 'f' tb.e :a llu.~
·v ial lands on the ·_ ·,_ is . i '"Sippi Ri·,,.er were protected frou1 o, ertlo,,~ aud
'b roog r. into a oondi·ti on W l1ere they oould be ,nl ti l atie. 1he~; won Itl a.fm
fo,r d all -the ·11omes,, and of tb.e bes.t cha:ntc.te-r,,that t'h e u.e_g roes cou.·ld postdbly· want iu th·:· &utb,, arid t ,,e nat11ral tend ency i,s, to con:1·e to Jllst
sucb lands .
· Q And the. negroes. prefer to be there to anywhere else·! -A, 'Illo~e
·f bat corn.e, I not-i ce, He,-er go back.~
·
Q. Yon suggested. tl1e imp,oveuient of the levees. \\""J1 41t i1., tbe neces~,ity, and. iu w·b at d,e gree is it, ,diffi:cult for t-huse res,i,1l1ng nloug the river
ba.oks to protect 1he1 se11-es ·t- A. I a.01 tbe p.r .. ·ld•e nt of t be ~1, , ..ee boa r d
of C'hiw·t 0ouut1.. 'Tb@. pliln whicb bas beeu sug,: . .s,t(ld by ,he l\l'i . issippi Ri,~er Commisstou .and Mr. Eads,.as ·t heir ehiei engiueer,, is,unqoes~
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
] ,80
'BELATIO __ 8 B,ETWIJEN LABOB, AND CAPITAL,
:1nnab·13 the correct one for the improvemeot of the MissiSSJppi Bi.,··er .
'\ \' .·• kn.ow tbi ·, not only from. theory, bn·t ·f rom lo, ·g e •perience with t:h.e
ri.v ,r,, tbose of u.s w·bo ba,,,,e Ii •ed there. The Mi . ··is,· ippi River being., as
it i' g·e n.· ra,lly termed, t'he '' at h . r of Waters;" and :p ass,i ng throo_g b several State, it i ·. ~tlmost a I ational sy tem. and it would be in1po •· bl for
an · s:. stunt to be ado_
p,ted b,y the -States ,vbich would be: locaL, Oon ..
seqnentl~· .i·t is im.perati -e]y the duty of the GO\;>ernm, n't of the Unit.oil
S,t ate . to ta'k e care o'f t ,e imp,rovem nt of th .· :ississi11p:i J ·. er. There
,e, ce.r taiu se,ctious o,f the · [is ·is· 'ip1•i li,..er tbat, are naturally above
overflow, made 80 b ·. cnt-offi, Tb,e fall of tbe Missi . ·s:ippi Biver is abou't
four .ioclies to th.e mile. Consequ ntJy, , he:n there i. o,n,e of those larg,e
bend ·, , Ylhe1 e the ri,.. er rn us a·ron.nd w he ,e tbe cnt~olf i ·, no in crea ·e. of
water is needed. Tb ·· f~l beiug four inc.bes to ,.ibe mne, t.he lands Jll8t
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abo\-e the eut-otf ar mad ·· bt-·h. rand .hove ov·e rffow, whe eas ju t be~
lo .· 'the l·nul .a:re O·~ .rd.on,. ti or become. liable to o\.er.duw. , The im.p.ro: &
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'l fll> f"or ,c o:UJw rL"ta
. . 1 purpose .,.. ~ : ·we U.. as
meot o f tuo
11 I'. · uuup1n
tb e protectiou uf the land!, is depend.en1. upon tbe buildin,g of' t'b·· .· le,vees,
ibr the I ·., ·. ( s of co 1r~e oo-n tiu .· the "'T.a t r with· · its, ba.u ks,. aud. gi e not
only a greater volu:me ot' ,vater, bot greater \ elooitJ" fo~ .seonrin g purpo~•~s, w· 1.c b scour,s out. the s . ud ban, tba~ a.1•e torm,ed oontionaHy ,o n
the rive.r. Oa11,ta~n E d.8'S plan of fo,ro1·1ng jetties w ere t'he. bank8 ea·,. e
a,"'es tld deposit a. it vtere in the 1\;ater, hic'h makes the sand bars.,
A mattre~5 is pn .again ·t the ea ing b nks whic·h pr;e1,:euts t'he ,a lluvi _1
laud eavang i11to tbe r1,·er ,vh1ch fo.rms the ,sand bars belowil, Then the
increased voh1r.oe and increased v elooity or the. ·ater wash ontthecbana
nel. and in11tro,1'·e it fo,r comn1erci al purposes, answerina tile object of
pro,t ectiug the land, and.at the ·· am.e time opening that imm.e ose eban·o el
fbr 4!om·1nerc0.
Again, there .: re ve:ry i1n_p ortant line.s railroad that are bei"ng··b uilt
111, and d,o wH e ~the.r bank of tbe Mi · is· i1.•p· :Ri·\ ;er, and it is, nece . · . ry
th · y .· •.hould be 11rotected for com.m,_·. re1a.1 purposes, as ·well as that ·the
Kit;· issi_f•()i lti\"'t~r should be imprio,ved for commercial ·r,n po e ·, an.d they
,e a-0, onl) be protected b,~ the building o.f leve~I
\V8 wllo have been
on 'tbe _ix r, and who feel that ·. e are faw'iha·r with i't-, have closel,J
,vat ·b ed :be cour · ·. of the Connnissiou, ai ,d I CtlD ool.)" ,s , as an ex,..
pre~ ·ion of t'ho opioio ·. of the peo_
ple, that we iudonse· wht ,t the Oo,muli,~s·iou arc doiug.
Q Arul de.~it·e litill more of' i ,. T-A. Y .· ·. ·, ·. · r; it is abso ote]y ue.ces[~ary. \Vbnt bas. been already :x pend.e d by t'he GO',·e1:0meut would be
absolutelJ u~ le; s uul:.ss ;Hlditioual ap1Jropriatiou are · ad • to oomp,lete
the. work - l would U.k . to c=ill yu ·r am tent.ion to•this. lloiut. Th .· - ~. ·chafah1 --a, in Loni . Jaua, i u. , tream which 1·uHs from.ju,s t abo,n.t ti: e mout
ot·Re.ti Ri,;-- r i11to tb · Gulf of ll ·· _ico!I The ihll froHa he JDouth. of tbe
Atehaf·day· an•I 11 d lti.\", r to th . Gulf of Mexioo i , very n1 •h greater
tban 'the l'"aU 1ron_1, the montb of Red I iver to t:he Golf by the '\1'3)'~ of
Ne-,,.. Orlen . dov;n · bu i\U o.i ~ippi, lti\~ r. A ft! - Je~u.··s a,g o the Atchaf'idaya ,va8 a st1 · a1u which ,,ould be waded across, but owing t0r the
Oltrreut gradual)\ go,i u._ ,, t hrough i , it commenced to ,vash out until now
i.t bas gu . to \Jt; ~1 s l reau1 100 f::e et , l eep.
Q. }ij · he:re or not an -- perceptible iucre ·e or d.imi unti.011 of the voluule ,o f tbe :i\.11~~i· ·~iJtpi its lf a . co-01p· ·. d witb 2'5, or 50, ,o r 100 ,y ears
aign!- A W e tbiok that our waters are bigher now'tbaH.tbey h~ve ,e.v er
been be lhl'\ ·•
Q . t.,1-eater extre1ne .· , or ·i ·- there a uniform flow .-A. A larger uniform
floW", aud mt, is a ' .1:ibated to tb · de tructiou. of the. fo .~sts, tbou=ll tbat
i~ JDOfie theory. ,Qoe of th,e arg·u ments at. ,&iny rate i that it .is owing to
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
-
R'ELATIONB :B'ETWEE.c LABOR AND CAPITAL.
181
tb.e destruction of' tb·· forests in tb.e ..·. orth.west, whi.e h cause . more 1sin
stO'rm,s and g1ves a Jarge rai: fill.I.
Q. I have heard the idea ad ,a cetl tb.a·t the destruction of tbe woods
and timber about t'be 'h eadwaters ,,ould, io case of r.aio - lea.d to lts.
mo.re rapid de110 .i t in tbe .tream, i.t nuld not be h ·J.d back by the
swampy nature of the ~oil . a11cl so Jou nd_
g ht hav·e more sodden rises
nd falls ·"n ·t he ri r e r than form :rl without ·t ho vo u ,e. of wa.t er or the
uni.form flow beiog increased or l -''Sfned. ·1 --A. I think-at lea.. -I · aLve
b,e ard it so expressed by 111eu ,experieHeeC:I on t.b.e ri.v·e r-tlu1t tbe flow
of the ·. ississi_p,pi Riv·er i . gr, at r now tht10 it wa , form .rl.y _
Q. That, one -, ear i b .. not her 111ore water ru.n . down the. ·cha · nel.! A.,,, We can ee a -ligh t iuerea ··e of' he ·_ at,l.r of the -ii ~issippi River.
I d,o nut kuo w 0W 1t way i·ncI~a:se in tbe future, or if it will at .all, bu't,
t,b at 1 : tbe opinion of peopl . tbe1~· no • The point I w·ant· to ca.JI ·our
atte t1on to p cificaHJ, i· 'the nece . si. ;y for the _
pre .·eo.ti.01 , of the water
o.ftbe Red Rivergoio,g dow throug'btbeAtchafal~ya., or ·i t t.hcAtchaf: .·.la~r.a. ·w · bes ou,: it ·1e.il\""es ew O:r lea.11N .a J~a r,ge ,commercial eity upon, as it
were, an inland e-a~. Tb . watie·r s l!.-hicl1 o,ye.r ftow from the ban'lt of the
. · lbt·sissi-ppi. l~i, er on the f~ont of' .A rkan_·~. go, O\er 1:nto th · Red Ri,.- ernd uevi~r e.001e bac . "'u.to tbe · fi :,: is :il>Jli Rive.r an.) ·m,ore until tile
oome out at tb m,o uth of Red ·i.Y '. t~. Ju ta · he. mou't,h of Red Ri . er,
and before Red R1i~er reacbes t'be :is .is iJ),pi,1~s _,be .A tobaihlasa. Bo
that all of t,b ·i · o,v P..rfl.ow .· te1· that CO·n ltl be kept 1n the Mi sl .ippi .R ive.r
by bui .d ing ·t he Ie, ·0 0· on the tro,n t of .Arkan "ag, now goes in'to Red
Ri·rer an◄.l helps. -o wa.sll out the Atcba.f alaya, wbieh will ·r uin the city
of' ... e. · 0 ..lea. · i ·that is n-ot preYented.. It is a ,~ery strong co-mmeJ'lcial
point, for the 00mn1 .re : of • •· w 0 rleans is , · outtter to b1e c.onsidere«:I. in
our affairs.
.Cl~ I suppose there IS uo doubt that ·the Atc'hafalasa furnishes a.n
outlet, whieh r ,eli.e· ·· s ... ot1r p lan.ta'tio.o ·. 1 · "ry moc · f-A, .N o, sir; it does
not affect wber,; I liv at an.
Q~ BeJo,w the. Red B1\'"'er, in Loui ·iana,, is i.t not a reli,e f in ease of an
O\r rflow -A . .A ).Klr· iol reH f; bu-t in , -onisia.na, -v la.en ·yo·o ge · ,d own
tha: far, t·he:y p, ett~" moch ha -e 'their s,y tem of le,~,ee . buil.t , w·bich pro;;
tec't ·t bt. su,rar •d i t1i,c t ; -there are 0111Jr probably a few· gaps , a.n d, the
Miissi '" s,~p,p i Ri ,.· ··r . w heD it g~ts tbat ta;r dow.n,. does uo . :r ise io. · be same
J .raroportiou 'tha it doe.s · . her ..l H .,. e 500 miles a ~ oy· ·, The month of i ·be
, ·.. tcbafalara i .• 500 miles belo,. whe.r e I aim .
Q. Bas. th.is inerea . d draiua. b~ f1om th.e ·. tcba·il lasa re ulted man,y
iujurs to he navigati.o n oft' er ,...-e:r as far uorth !'- ·.· , Not a .· yet; but
if it i Dot · to;p p• d-the, comm'itisio - r,eailize tb.e fa,r\•t I am u.o,r teHiug
_y ou-·1f it i.s not c . eek · d:, tbe ·,1;bo,l · · -is~1.ssiJlpi River will natnral]y·
tu.ru throug·b the. Atchafalaya,. b :ca.use the fan is w much ,gttater~
1Q I low do th~y J11·r o,p o ..e to cb ~ le it r-A.. That is .a matter- the. oom.mis~ion and 1sei,eu titi c en gin . rs ould 'ha,~1e to d,~ci,d . ..
Q. ·Cnn tbey block i't -1 th~ outlet of the Red River!-.. ·~ They pro-•
·1,,0 : c to check it priu,~i1.,idl.r by -to1 J>ing t · .e ·w ater hom. the . · ississ1p,:pi
.i,:-ei.i ·t hat goe~ iuto t-he Ii ed Ri·r , .r · lie.re wunld in fbat way 'be an
t-uo101011·: <1u~ntity of ,,,. a-ter keJ>t ou·t of 1~ Bi' er. Th ' would be one
uu~tltod.. W'h at t-be r,ugineer• , · oold oo _. ider · nffleient o · ·neeessa 1y to
be·done., of eourse I would llOt .·:·nt11re to (i·xp-1es , a.u opini.o n upon.
Q.. What dau,ger is there to• the large m1t s, of e-apa.tal in,,'"e · ~ in
th.etie . D.u11al hunJs, u:n tes., . sometbb1g is done to 1>re·vell't the overflows.
of" wbi,eh J ,t)n .: peak t - A,. The lands ·tha.-t are no · Hable to o-v,erffo .· a ,e
almost eutirely abaodon.ed.
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
1.82
RELATIONS, B'E TWEEN L~BOK AND CAPITA~
,Q,, To 'h o . large aln ei:rt nt ,a re t·h ey ·n ow abandoned !-.A. 1T,a king io ·
tl1e whole of the llissis.sip,p i V',ailley proi> r from lJe-m1,bis down.
Q, Has 't he·r o been any ,c om,p utt.tioo or reaRoua·ble estimate fha·t you
kno . of tbe ,··,nlne of those 1nnds, aife.eted by tbe overftow 1-A. I b.a.ve
n ,"Ver heard or it, hnt · wi il say that those laudis which. are liable to
o,,.erffow non , if brought into col 'ivat·ion, am Jnst tUJ valuable as any we
arc ,c ulli · •ting; JJrobably more ·:o,, because the:y hav-e the allo .··a1 ·d &
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There. is a ,d eposit there :f~·m 3 to inches!!
Q.. You IJa,ro Ju) 1dea of th.e .·xt nt of tbose.la11d1s 7-A. I oaonot ,g i·v,e
.,.·ou. th•··. pro1J-Orti:o n. J will simp.lJ- say it is a v ·ry larJ:e proportio,n~
Q,. A. "thinl, or a half, or :a_qnarter '! -A.., Kore tbao a half. I 1&aw it,
estimated sum time , go, at letLst I will gi ,,e i as & ,s tatement ·p ublished
JlOSi.ts, tlpo11 tl1em:
in the Planter,'' Jo1trnal, publ1_bed in Vi.c ksbur,, that tb. .re are th1r-teeu ,o ouutie on tbe _ is:;i& ippi River -~ b1ch, if all clea,r ed. D'P aud
pu-t into ,c ultivation,,,· re cap:rble oil' producing t'he ent'i re eotto cro.P of
th .· U nit_;ecl States, and . haT."e lieard fhe qn -~stion discussed.
,Q. Wbat p1tl V ·~uts.. heir being· c1 ea~ed UJ1r and ptlt into cultivation t. . . . .
A.• Shnp_Iv the o,erOow..
Q. Ha, e t.heJ ever 'b een cleared as yet f- Ail A gre.at portiou. of
t·b m; autl uow destroy,. d b can _e t.he leve .· .·ystem. is not com·1lete. On
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'tile e land, , all 't he ne."rro labor w·h ich ia not foo.od p1oltable ,o n the.
poorer lau1I.~ tn the ,olde, _ta'te ·. eould be mad. _ext-remel,y 1,ro:litable·,, not
Ohl.,· to th·: 1,1,rO'()ri,t tor~ of t lie land . ,, bu·t it o 't'be laborers themsel'v·es,.
Q.. D:o, you thiu 'k it would he \l~itbin l1m"it to say that one-half of t e
allutial 11lant~· loo landa sncl.l as
\"Oll
·have described i.n Ark,aueas, .11.s-
si~ . ip}li, anti Lou·is iana i~. now ·p 1acticaUJi- des'troy.ed 'b y· reason o.f 't'h1s-
O'\rerlli0w oeeasio, .ed
·uy ,. be des,trnet1on of" the levee
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·.•ystem.!'- ··.. Yes,
·•·
sir.
Q.. A ·t least one~half - A..~. A·t least one~half of that ·w·bieh has 'bee·n
iu ~"olti,fation ,, tt1Hl. which can b . brought into -c-ultivati.ou.
Q 0 f t.bat ,vh1c I is bu us less no . , w at portion has been formerly
be. impossible for any o.oe to form an
undt~r cul'tivation, ', - -.t\.. It Oldll
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be
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1e stu»a·t t
~ ·ant. rt l'_ 1S O ,·ar1eu.,
Q - Th '· amonut of Jaud · bat 11,as beeH im1lro,~ed and which is n.o w ,de~
stroy,e,cl by retuio11 of tlie o,:- erflo 1 you canaot ,-•ta\te T,- A., l cannot · -· tate
it, ruceurat -Jl ;, I ·will state it approximatel,:r ; I ·hoold ·•·ay at least one1
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third.
Q. One-thir,tl of the -otire a·mount that. has been. improved 18 ll0 W de'St ro1~-d 1.l )~ rea on of tl1e overftiow resulth1~ from imperfecti ons in. the
'
..-- 't·O-'88-1.
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•·t JS
~-· ~·t enl·.,'·- .' .. ---.-e " rE,·nr t t.''h·
]_l . \ ..l -C' si
a·t· J' ...an
W·h'~
. ,a
Q. An,J of tba·t ,rhicb ha · . no:t been 1mpro oo.but .ig.bt be imp,roved,,
·
ltflw mncli •-A. At least n half.
Q.. Do :you t1dHk it Jl088ible to pr···. ·ot these annual -overflows by the
le\""ee -systet11 - -·. • l do; I thi11 -: i't is tlte ou·1y system 'for protecting
th:at lnnd an ll for th ·~ i 1n 11rov ~ ·meu ;_of tbe channel ,o f' tbe, n ·_·e·r ,•.
Q. You arce not fri~bteued. ·v ery 1nucb by· tl!le idea that the. bottom of
tbe. ii~rea~, will .g raduaU,y be raised, auc;l that by and by we ,sh 'JI 'h a·,·e
tbe. riitrr in. tho ,a ir ·. -A.. Not a an, How v·er, the Biss· tsippi Rt,er is
Yery llifrtt1~~ut fro1n •.· b.o ~-ile in. that respect,., The Nile is a, very alng ..
gis'l1 stre'lDl.. The , Ii ·si '"s'i1•,1~i ha .a very s·t1-ong·under-curr ent, so ,s tro ,C
t'hat it t + one of the roost ,d ifficult ,s trea1u to ·. wi'm in ..
_Q. The uud ·r--cur1- _nt is more rapid th.au tbe surface! -~ Yea, sir;
there ii , a ,·er,. st1•,011g- u , der ~cnrre-nt, It takes a · ery, expert swimmer
to 8\,rhn 1n tbe '! Ii :~dssi1,pi"
.
,
He is,. 1 pt t ,~, be dr~11vo n,1~u~e1~r~A._Yes,, sir. _
Q. And 1u some porttons, o:f the. iS tream the under-curr ent .18, m.neb.
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
more rapid than in others'- ··... Yes, sir; owin,g to the bends in ·the
river anti otJ)er things~
Tbe committ . ·~,took a ,ooess of·one hour,, and :reasse·mbled at 2 o'clock
JJ,. m.
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JOHN OAL,DWELL CALHOUN'iS
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,ex,aminat.i,oa res11:med.
· FFECT OF TARIFF L'EGISLA:TION·.
By the cu . 1 _, AN:
Q State., if you ,a re able to,,, what proportion of the. cotton crop, ·i s
markete. iu thi :•, eountr~ ,, and whaJ b, ·· Id abroad . -.A . As those are
matters.of 11n blic recort1; I · oultl pr ..fer to refer to t be, st&tist1es OD, eo,,
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ton..
c uot; k.now· that I could s at . accuratel,y~
Q. J lt you1 i - I:>'' s
101.1 th.~ , more t.ban balf is,,sold iu
A~ I think n1ore than balf i11 this cot1ntTJ'~
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tbi eonotljr't-
,Q. ~~ou ,1ould consider the llrospe·r ity of the manufacturing i'ute.r est
o:f t.he _oitetl Stat ~ , wher,e , ..r it mai be locat d, as ,o f', err great bos1ne ... s 1n1portanoo to tbe Sou b,. o,f ,onr~e · •--:- ·· ., Oerta·i uly·.
Q. You ·made ,som ..: aUn Joo to free t:rade or protection.. In so far as
Jaa.. s of that d e·~er11>.tion are ·p rotective of th.e bnsine . interests of that
seution of t e oountry wh.i.cb atfonls a market for ·the produeti.ons, of
the South, th·.··Y p· ob~ b1y woDld be. hen . ,6 cial, would they :n ot., to the,
South -A.. J ,. ·o uld ,saJ this, tbat th ·11eople oi the South b ,~e 1,ar ·ed
to ·be ver3 conser,,..ati.v e, and wbUe :ve ·wouJ,d prefer that tbere should
be no tarllf ,e xc •pt tbat needed tor :te\" nne, we W'Onld of coun;e want
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to claim a I of the privileges whi.ch. utber maonfactunug iudnstries in
thi ~.0001 11 ry a, . enti·t l . d to..
Q.• Would. sou ca.re. to ,s ~ .at the p resent timie a course of legislatio.n
1
adop't,e d which · ould d1.miui · b _the capac.itJ of the No1· Ji toaftbnl a mar
ket for tbe production , of 1he Sooth 1-.A.. I .. hon·Jd not like to, aee any,,.
th i g 'i,n a agur.ated. in tbe , ·~• , of J.,e.gi.s lat ion or otherwise tllat ·. ould in.
the sHgh test d, g.ree retard the, prosJ>eritJit" of this country, or bring
a·b out a ,co,n,·ul~dou.
Q. Either No1th or Sout·b 1•- A. Either No,nh o ,South.
Q Sot at., ·w hatever·re1narks you ·m -~-. lia~e made tou,c hing upon the
ta1i - in ~.-our te tunouy t i ·~, forPnoou,, !•Ou d ,e sire to ba,y - eouiudewd in
,oounecti,oo w·th this geue·r al criticism -A• .· · U(l as o.ols•' on.e of the ge,o..
end benetils to be. dPrived b3 otr1r labor
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Q~ At 't ho pr s nt ti,- e .· hat do you r e-c ~tte from Europe in considerati.ou or in pa -n1e,n t J·o r th · co,rton which you , xport to 1he conntri,es of'
that oont~.11 nt . -·. \1 I will confine· n.1:fself _to, my ,, -•tion of the eouutry
and to the busi11ess wi.tlt "· bich I am 1Y«1rticn)al.'l,y acquainted. We se·11
all onr cotton ·i tbi , countr.v·. It ·.· oold bean
,e xception JJf a ·in,:1e
J)lanter io, the ~ i si~i 11,p i VaHf-y sh i l'Jle'l hi ·. cotton to Eoro1ie. , ha·t
1s all sold in thi, ~ ~...ouutry.. If it i~ slii1 pell a.broad it i , bl the buyers
Q.. Then take. tbe i\l "., ·i ,. iJl·pi VaU e,·; "·hat thi·n g do J'OD ~iTe in
return .tor your euttun . Ju the first place, is t :ere nineh paid you. in
mon y, or is it u.1.a.1uly in liroduetious oi" the ,ortb - A. "\\re are paid
.money for 00 r cotton, IJot ,te pav ou.t that mone1 tor · large qoautity
of pi , duce ,s uch as ,ve consu.1.ne aud do not rai se-.
Q lVhat kiucl of ,p,rodru . ,f~A. Suc]1 ,a;rf~c]es .a s, wou·l d be used by
i),r dioar~r farm.ers,i If I w·e1-e ·t o designate -bem. 't bey would run inm, all
bt~ucht!S of · rad ..
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Qi Do ) on ree..ti , . ,e wheai 1-A~ No, sir;: wl1at
,ean i · s,neh arti,c les
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as 'We import to our country tor con,sun1ptiou, mt.ats, door, corn., where
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
there is not a. sufficien cy raised in our· ,c ountrr. Then onr ,e lothin,g
coui~.... to UN. We im11@rt som•c machiDcry, 'from Europ1~, Tbe.11} arc
1
certain gi.u~stands we. eauuot bny in fh.i"'l counti'Y~ Tho...~ ~om,e fnnu
Eorope to us.. J' t n oul ti b . ,~:ery tli ffi.eu Jt. i11 au examinatio11 Ii.ke 1b·irs, to
sa) · e.s:a,c tl,. ,vlu1t nrti.cle · ·w consume. · ·. e consume wluate,-~r roay ·
needed to ad ,. . a,11cc the interests, of tbe farmer..
Q~ The only object 1 bad was to ascertai.o ns, neartr a~ I eonld wl1at
things necessarr to tbe farm1er are produced at home, anti .··hat things
you i"eee. i\T,e fro1n otbe1~ portioua of -the oou.ntry w.hicll you 11a3- tor by·
sourstn11J,e crop.. .-ou ba,r . mentioned, .·. r:,-- Iar:g;ely what yon r,e ce:i ,~e,. ·A . Our 1nachinery IJarticnlarJy, \\rhicb I dhl ·not pi e.ntion~
Q. Most. of tlJa.· coMe from t.he North 1-A, From the North an,d
Wet,
Q~ YoH say UJa.t son1 ., formr of uuicbiuery· you, import from. Europe
beeaus · t.ber
oo obtained iu this couot·r:v ~ · ·.• ·Certain kiuds of
,J caunot ·
giu . ,s tan d.s .; n1ac.h inery fo gin.n1ug cotton.
Q~ Is tbe:Fc a lar.g e e-.x11e.n ditu1 . t·o r 'tba.'t kiDd of machin.e11 ·. -A. . .Not
very la1 ge, for we geocrall:t-"' patronize boo1e industries, and buy moat of
our mgcbinery or that kind. iu this cO'ln o·t ry.
·
Q., Agricultural iw:plements of va1iou·~ ·ki·od·~· a.re m.ainly bonglrt in
this couutrv, I snppase 1-A. · · es, sir.
Q.. If the po,v·er 1o mannfactnre these va1 ioo,s utens.ild and things of
·•··.·o rtbc, u 1n~dnc.tiou, aside frotu .g rai:n :a·o d. the like, depends upou the
ex.iste·nce of' a tari'ft~ you won Id.look u1,011 ta,ritf le.gi ·lation on, the wh.ole
AS beoe ftcial to t · e (l,tlUDtry, w ou1d you not T-·A . No,]sir. O,u r people,
I tlm-ink, re•<ratd ·t be tariff as]a ~1;1rdeo ,o n th.e ·mas~_es, who, ~100. fhe l~ _.b or~
~ug ~1ass, uod ,voultl not be in fnvoir of a tariff ~yond a
for revenue·.
Q'. \Vould, they be in ftl\ ,or of a revP,nt1e to th.e exten. that th.e bu .i
.u --s of the Gove.rnm,e nt: required!:- .·.·. . I thi11·k they would.
Q . Ancl fot" sueb an adjast1nen·t of t: e tariW as wonl,l p-rotect ·those
iudu8tries. most n~eoin , protection., if any ~-A.. As .I ha·l"e. ne,er em,. .
har·k ~d in. ·pohtic~·I 'lite, J ooo6ue tDl-" au .· ,ve.r ,, to those points th t o.ome
nio.r . i1nn1•etJliate1y 11nd1 r 1n.y owo.: kuowletlge, I sbottld no like ·to enter
into a di.seussion ot~tbe tariff' •Qll "'S'ti·o n.
Q~ I om notuski1_g for tlu ·t, but simply fo.r, the fact as. to ·t be ,liHJ)OSl..
tiou of"' lour J)eo.p lc. - uO'wing · hat a tariff is, to b imp06ed for i>nrp ·~.· · ot· rt•l~1euue,l antl so to w·b at exteut tb~t re, enne is reqttired-that
you say· is tbe in -Iination ot yo1 -r p··ople~I am. a.s'kii·o.g ,;ts a ·1oa,~ter of'
ia t,, not 1vi1 j;th . r it i.s right or wrrtug, us it, tl fia.et s.ti11 forth.er tbat th · .v·
,vo,dtl tu~.~1t~ntral y inchued 'to 1See ·t hat 'L~rift. .so .aqjus;te.d .as, to ·protect,
aN i~u·· ~•s n1i,gh t lfi .. suth iodnstr.i ;· in t·Jd~ oount.rv. as. most needed p .r ote1ct iu11 ~l 1 a1u~.t · hr.~i,g n p~oductiou ! -. I will un~,v ·1~ that· que tiou in
tltis "·~•,.•1;\· : ( htl' 1>eo1•le \\'." Otdd be in fa·, :- or of a ta.-riif simp'l_y for revenue,
; 111c l \, ~ 111.t· t IIt~ · ~a 1110 J~rote c :ion t I1:. it i ..~ a.ti.O'rded to other· ·tniannfactorinig
in~lustril~~, ju 1'1 is COllHtl'J· \ 'V·. teel that, t.bo natural adv: ntage we ba1re.
i u t-b~ ~01 th . ln iug at the bo:in ~,of the aa~tic'J.es,prodnee(l, a·r e so.tlicieut to
to eua'bl · n~. · o col.!lJ}ete \l itb · uy ot·h er 1>art of the world withoo't a tariff~
CJ.. Io fll),p ,~~t·· hHsluuent of manuta ·tores . -A . In the , tablish.111eu·t
of 1uaHut:1ctu1, s,,. but, rnarl1. you, ·i f' there i~ au:r prot e-ct·ion to 1.il3buft1c · urc ·~ a11y" h ·I'e .,.ls◄ ..10 this. cooutry our peo1,lc ,vould ~laim it-.
Q~ \ ·. ifb tbe ~e supe.r ior ad.,auta,ges v.·hich J :nnde1stand are pos ~es 'etl
through tl,e Sou b lbr m~nufactur.Jng s., \\"ell as. for t'be raising o:f ,ootb Ht, '\\" J1ut is, the ·reaR:ou, ·1n :\ our jud.,gm.,en· as a, bush1.e ss.·ma.u.,. that 1naioufactur:ing il;$,a, busi.ne.ss interest .h as not mo:re lar,g ely dev~IO[JCtl I I snp•~
1,use it is, do,relop'ing, is it not !-A. tis developin,g· rr1.pidly·,,and it .has
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not more larrcrel,y de,, reloped n:p ·t o t'hui time from t.be f~1,c . that ea1~ital
:bas. been t-h nid abou.1. s·ekaing i.n.t eis tmrut ·i n the ,South.
Q.. Your .fer to'tbe 11eri.o ll ,t:1h1:ce tbe , -:11~ .-- A. 81u,. e the v.~ar.. Before
the wa.r onr industries · . ·,ere socb that. there wer,e. ·,·er}~f~.\\ · in8titnt1onK.
of that kiud. started in tbe .S outh.
Q .. Do you. think 1bat 'f.be la.boriug 1.101101.atioH in .t\:rkanSc151 c ntl lhnt
})()rt.ion of th _· country wiH ta.lt.e r •ea:dU\" to -h · . ducat-ion u~bicl1 , , uu1.uu ..
:f acturi u,g po,p ulation ueec.ls iu the baud.ling a:n.d o.•·e of uu1chiut;rr !'- .·,.
I tllink tbe · wooltl wi ' a uertain. amount of · oltu·r · ·;· they ·1 rollld ha,·e
to 11 (..tt1ltiva·t ed up-to it~.
Q;i, I st11,pose yonr wl ite popltlatio'IL there-woHl'd be moi .· J1k~Jy· to
t k ·•· t m.auu.factnriug ·t han I.he ·•·olored .J lOJnda'tiou, -,~rou'Jd tb ~ u,ot !--A.. I hav·e been snrpri~ed at the ren1a-r·k.ib I : l1Ul1DH ~r in 1\' hi~h our colo .ed
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la.bo•_. ·r 1. ··h a .· "; a,da1~tetl th . n1s .1,~es to imp:rni ed 1uachh1 :rl··
Q,. , · hat forn1 · tlf 1ua,c b.inerJ ?
o·r instance 1-l.1.e· itupro,T,ed. 1,low8
for the 1•repa1~ti.on of land, au 1~·ind.s of iu1 ll'O\~etl imp'le1 ents, sucb as,
are u ·eit. iri the · .orthwest tor ·mbe u'ltixatittn of corH. aud wh c-Ut.. \'Ve
are 10 trodo c1 ug all th.at ki od of in nc bi ner,~i111to our t·,oun try uo1\'", I
:6.n,1 that t be n1ore intelllgeut c·l ass, of our ool.oret1. labore,1-g u:re a,d apting
trhem _elYes to it :td,w irably.
,Qi ·, ,-, 1tb as m11ch ap11ar .nt re=:ldines.s antl faci.11ty as. tl1 .~ whit bi'bo,r . .
,e rs. pe1t"haps !'- .· · . I could hardll~ r . tnpa.1 · tl1e two.,, beea.use, as I said.,
we ha,,,o bia i v ~ry f6 -. w bite laborer, -: in our· ,co,nnt,r ,....
Q~ Is tbi·- labor,saving agriet1ltural mac.b i.uer:s a.1so being iut.rolln,c·.d.
ao1:o ug the s , all farmers !-A.,, 1 thiu·k ,so in a li,mitetl ,ra3,· .
Q. I --! tber-e .any eotton. and w·o ol.· o mat1t1factoriog b .iug· intro~lneetl
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in:to Arka.nsa.s ·f
A. UnJs rto a l"'ery s:niall ,ex.t .- nt ..
Q·, · 'Ow of the. iron and ,ot.ber or,e ·~ sources of J01rr S *at, ~f:- A~ I
thh - they will compa.r : j·avo-rably ·, ,·ith any o,ther· porti-011 ,1f tu~ 18 00th,
· .. peciaJl:v oui.,, t.im.b er· interest. . · _ urin,g tb .. 1 · ~riod frou1 J.t,70 to J.88:! the
min,e rid. ou~put of .A labama aJonc has iucreased tro1n fo111· 1nil:1·on to ni'ne,.,
'teen, autl the Iuni her t>rod ucts oif >r.kau ,at, from . ..t, 700,000 to $-Si,U(M],,O(Kt
' ~k. I, JOr
~ -th
. ·_·be
- ... . r..
~ .
A"·.. I ·t· go
-'', ' .s. d.
. -T.·.,t11ere
. , ':
' b,·. ., .--.re' .'is;, th·.. tna1
Q. W
. a _lum
__ o,,·'" n.
i:. a v.a -- t tlemnntl for it in T :xas. F'o r instauce I bea.r,d i.t ~.t Ht . d iH a
speech. t a 1n1blic meeting in. Littl Rock.,, -to ,,,llich I :all~1de(l thi~
mon·1iug,11Jy a gentleman of i.n tel11ge ,u c, a ret;.ide'lrt of Little· It ook aud
a busiu1.~~ -s. 1__nau, that tit , ,s bingle tmde a'l oue of Little Rot•k go·i ug· do\l·11
iu to 1."exa . ,vas worth ,$ 1,000 a d.aJ n<~t pro·:f it to tl1e· cits of Little R-0ck.
Q., B,J-~ wb.at 1 oute du ·., i' g~t tbere r A.~ Ry tbe l1"0u ~.Jountoi11 l'fJJad
and. the ,.ariou ·. b-r anches that ® OH · from. Little . 1-o~k. Ju µ;oir1g f1~on1
)f' ..mpbis to Little :ock, 011 tbe ;1~mpbi ., an,1 Li .. l e lto,!k ltailroacl, lOU
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'"ill s •e a.ere . t'4l\'"ered ·with
ClJ1're,'. s shin ,_Jel'.I real} for t,r.a~.sJlOrft1t1on.,
a1ul tlle. CJ' :. re-s. is a , '~ry vi1luable ]umber, l bicb ·s Hot so rn,ble to 1,01,
~,nd -tltca.)i'" as, oth .· r· woods. It e i.sts iu ,··a st qua.n litit s iu .!\ r!;:;usa~ ..
Q,. .I t 1s used for boildiu,g purpo:e -- maiuJ,~ in .· Ol r on·u 1S tatt .-A~
l'9;p building purposes, not ODlj in our State. but there is. 110\\r H tl~urrit,)lfl(
for. it. s1,dog1ng
UJ)
in Cbicago.. People. fr,010 : btcago an~ ·t liat nort·~-
weijt:.ru couutt), where the timb . ·F intere· 'l is beco1nin~ ~xliao~,t el to ·t
certain _;_. ', -e nt, are rapi l'l y s ~-•-kin,g in ·estmeots in the tiu1ber laud~. of
. · rkansas~
Q. Is this, wood to someiexte,n t a substitnt ·· foi' t:'be -lrite 11:n .. of the
North I- A .. '\-r~_rv much like. the p,i nes ,of the North, onl,y a -more solid
wood.
,.,
"'
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
18.-~
11·· ,~ 10
Q .A·n d really J'OH ha¥e a reniarkablv valuabl 'W ood for building
honses,f-- - . It iN so eonsi(lered.
·
Qr Bo\ a to tbe existeuo . of CJ'P'r¥8S. .f orest , i'o otbe'I Southern
States. -A. 'Them·e arc ,·a ·t (lt1.n1.titi~s .·catt,e rt~d thro 1 ghout the o-otb.
lliss:i~ ~i(lJ>i bas Jarg,e ,c:rp,re s bra.ke , as th ~s are, termed; Florida bas,
iuul I SU(>J')os _, ou will 'nd cyp1·ess in idmoijt a11 the tS, tea, J>articularly·
thmJ.e bordr.1·i11g 011 tb.~Gulf an,1 ·tl1e eoa~t.
·
Q~ H.a ,re the':- ~ ey p:r e _ forests been ,~ucroacl1 ,I upen for busine ,
u, -•to any J:reat extent as y -t -A . They ar al 10 t in a ,. irgin state.
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Q. U o,, v htrbre doe th cy1>re -~ tree gro"· t '- .t\... Tb ere ~re cyp-r e. _·
tree iu ms immediute seetiou th=1t w1U 01 ~:n ~urie 5 f~et in diamete.1.a.t
t-b,e butt aud 100 tr i1;~t a.t the fi.r~t Urnbt,
Q. Is that an3 tldug uuu~u~tl · -A. That i _ consi<lered a good. qnalit:y
of c,·pretss-would be co S'idercd 1 -- JH08-t secti.ons rt'1th r aho,..,e the
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ave m -,,re·..
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Q. \Vhat i0tb ertimber 18 tbe:re 'Wliicb is a, ai1'able for ,capital as an. in .
, ,s tmeut ! - A . One timber tba • u·e ha, .·_.i'o ,~ast q antities,1w·bich i _
oomiug i:nto lUltl',, iH the gum, 'Which is a ...·1bstitute fol ,v.,Jnut. It cn.n b
u1ili2}ed 10-r n1aHu1a.c turiug tum1itul'e. \V,e ha, e aH the ,·arieti -•of oak;
·,ve lu1,: _- th · sas ~atrds ; wt · have~ t 11 - J>eean ,,, e ha,Te 'l arge- pecan
gro, es itJ m. · :•tioD, , . e1·:, much h .e the h "ckor,- The peca,DH 'ID my
s c·t iou are 1~ortion of our ·b u, iue _- a.n<l 'trade. · .'b y grow n.atur~lly,
aud the,. a~ gatb ·red up b _tb,e ue~roes uud brou.gb·t 10 to lW,1 We
buy tb,e m f1•otu t.b
, and the5 a:Burd tl co u~iderabl:. r~\",e nue to the uegroes i1n mil sect·ion.
Q. You hu,. . e large coal and 1.ron tle,1msi'ts,, I thlnk you ba1re , _ta'tedtAi Iu IHl~ Stat th . 1 - a , · large coal aud iron depo ·its.. I tbink th.e
- 1: ~i.me11K ot both out mineral 1e opr,ee and ,rood that we av·e ou - xh.ibitio n uo,, a _ Lonis,·ill~. \l~ould. con1pare favora.b ly wi ·h ho .~e of a. .y
ot.ber JMlrlion of t be ,couu 'trJ,;.
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REL ATIO ...llS OF THE RACES~
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Qj Speaking of the 1nn·Houal 1eeHni ·- b -twe u the ,,.,b ite aud 0010-red
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r,uce iu cliD-...rent pa t-t5 of t be Sou -l1 ho ·hKve those teerngs been in
tbe Stat·e ot· ... - rkau,~ ~ a" tt,on11u1rt~l w'itl tl1e -~a.we in. other Str,tes, -now
and h1fherto . - A.. I d not kno ,v that I eon 1tl dl""d!W a11 v distinetio11. I
d,o not tl1ink 1i isl 11articu··arlv different in 1·ka.11s~ ftroom what it is in
aoy of tbe othe1· South,, ro S,i ate;..
Q. IH the t' s,tiuiou,) beio,re 'th,e 1r roc]u, Commi't tee, of" which I was a
me1D'l1er,I 111auy of the witne~e,. testiti.e l ·to a better condi"tiou of things,
so far as they· w,ere eo 1c 1·0 - tl, ut t.bat ti'n1 e ( 1t ,vas iu 1870,. I think,) in
Arkan~s thau iu some ot er Bout Ir rn St.ates. - · .. think t e ~a,,, e
rule ·t hat ap,11lies to alniost, , ·u th ,valks of life goYerns t ere,, w,bich is,
t·h at it i - "_. n1,a tt.~'r of iuteJ/ , :-·t ; and I ~,1,o 110 ,s ee wh,· the.r e ,sbonJ,, l oo
ao~" di,Oereuc,~ of ff ,l ing i l auy other .S,t ale ft■o1u what there is tu Ark; u a , • Tb~ intt:'1· ~' of th lallorer a:ud t e iut st ot'" the w .h ite m.a o
a re id .ot,icaI ; t 11 e~~ 1n~1 ~,t ta.ke c: tro of ·)ath ot'1er,.
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Q., Do 3~ou t.b i u k t.b ,.~ 1t·c Ii u g,;· b · ,r ee n he planter and the colored
·1abo~er, -, a rule. ar - more auncab, e nud 'f rieno1v thau on the 1n1r1' of
the small wlutP 1arm. r ·sl to\\ ar-d the uegro ])Of)Ulation ,;1 bow )81it 'iD that
reganl !-A,IJ I th1i·11k tbat the'" bi ·e fi-1r1nt r is uot liO de1teu•le111 opoo tbe
11eg1-oes., as tbe la1•g'e ·1,,lautc~r i:s t·o,1· hi·,-labo1·, au,1, be is no brot gbt so
u1ucb iu contact ,,Iith fhe negro I· h )1i _ r a~ tll ..ht:rge: 1•r0Jtr1e.tor~ · Probabl_y .be lnu; not th . ~uunc e~ 11erieuce ,,rith bhn :;, bot if a 8ma11" w·h ite
tarme.r became~ pla:n ter and would .h ave to emp10:y l~oo.rers. I do not,
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18'1
B.E L,.A.:T IONS BETW:E BN LA.B OR AND C..APITA1~.
kno·w tha·t there woJild b ·. any difference in hi'. tr atmfn from. th1a ·t of
an ordina:ey planter.
Q. Mutna'J ·rel.atiou · d.epeDll ,,-,ery 'l argely ou 1n n tu.a: I inte1·est s there a ·
.e,,.,ery,·w here. else·, ot conr.s ~ , - ·A .. y ·e ~ ..
Q~ What-·•s tile .more1l ooodit'ion of tbe negro pOJ)ola.tiou
110w
as coin-•
·p ared. ·w ftb wb.a t ·i t wa.s before· the 1.bol lion of: ·ha\-~·,~r,.- · - · .. l think fron:1
the end of the ·war ftio1n eruanciptt.itioo ou, ·p robablJ-·flie IH~~roPs became
demo·ralized., they n.· turall~ wouhl~ A g~: ·• · tn.~111.,.r th · m , . cn t off' to
cities and tow nR who had. b ;en. in th(~ <!Ou11tr,·· btfo1· : nu d wet\~ n1,t .~ub
jected to evil infl.uen:ces; were n.o t led. off h:.·· t, n11·1 ,tatiou~ nucl all 'k ind,Si
, ,~1·y in.nth
of extra,"·.a.ga.nce., I th·in'k.,, therefo,e,, the. deu1oraHz11tion
,greater in their moral ·.. Their morob~ are uot as good as thP.,r ,,~ · r,e be·
tore the ·w.a r·; but l t'hiuk tba·t a -. th - Degro ht ig•i u~. to aeuuu1 n'hit'e son1e
lit.tie property, and feels the mpon~ibi Uti.· 8 of citiz.us·h11·1, ret.-1'liu,g 01,on
b.im,. and begitns to a.cqu·i m ·i ofornuit.100 , I i.s 1uora)~ il1u1~ro, 11!: ~-long; g he
beeomes able. really to t.a k,e care of" 1l'i m.s 1f a 1ld ·to think ftJJ· li ith se•If.
Q~ Taking the ,co,lo.red ·rilOJlnlatiou .at1 .~ · · ·11ole-, so fJ.r a .:.on 'k no,v t hena.,
are ·t h y i.n a m:a terial and. ment.11 .a1ul n1oml co1:uHtion g,etti11g ootf er or
gettiu.g w,t~rse t -.Aii Dec:id. dl.y getl.ing lletter.F
,Q. In e e·r y .r •e.SJ~ect !-A.. ,·~es, s.ir,,.
Q.. Your a.ccount of them. i.s, maiuly of a , ~rl hopeful1·c.lH1racter ' -.. . ..
It i:s.. I d·O u.ot ll ish. . o bu conAt r11ed, b ,o,, ,~,.· ,. · ·1·, c;\~. co 01 J.l,u r'i. n g t b ,·~ tutu·; e
prospe•ri.ty, of the negro if l •tt to his o,rn resources. .azs 11.e i-s. tu that or an
indu;Kt rion.s bite. man, hecau5e he bas uoi . ~ot t b sa. 111 e q utt 1iii "at iurl' •
.I tbi.u k t.b~ t ·t be negro., ith bi · surrouadiug~., bis ,ehf1r.actfM•r, and hi.s
habit .·, will make stride toward in1pr0\~•ern,t ut; bnt- that be 1·ill i1n11,.ro\1e tot.be ame d.e gree 11at .. white ·popolatio.n woHld, plaeed uuder
siloilar circo. mstanc4:,s, I do· not thi'uk.
·Q. ln otber word , yon. fl1ink tbet'e i .... me natural diffi' ·r - o e in ·tb.e
qualities of the two races !~A. I c1o•
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Q. Speaking of the matter o,f . du.cation., anti remen1berio.g tl1a.t ·we.are
sent as-. com.mittee 'for the ·· ati.o ual Go,.- eJ nm r.rt to uia 'ke 2"1.U.~h i'o q uiries .
an.rt rooommeu dation .•, as oocttr to us, art\ there anJ~su:.:1: ;stious yon t_!'a
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make to us in reference to tbe IHatter of tbe e(luca tiou nf' ·t bie1coloF d ·peo1tl0
or of the nnedo.catetl ·peo,ple. of a11y or al.I ·1u,r1~ of tbe ,~ount'l:V t-A.,., If
tih em was a :s nrplo,s in the · 1 ,a sur, ,o f the U1lite:«.l -,h1te~ I ChiHk it
should he distr1bo.te d. back to the St~"·t e . ,p ro ro··tti aecordiu~ to tbeir po11nla·tiou for· the benefit of the States, and it ·c ouhl Hot be ap1lli.ed to a bit~
te·r · purpose · ban that of l~n·ation ; and. I 1·hink fu·rt.b1:11i•·t ,h at ·.·o l~r a.R,
a negro is ·ignorant 10 ·t he South, ,vho wa~.emuauci 1.>dltetl ~nd ph11·~ . 111·M>n
h.is own ·r esoarnes, it is em1nt-utiy proJ>t-:l" be ,ed1ould tlerit' all the beHefits ,of an education, .and t-o facilitate - the :;tates it \'f•nd.d be emiue11 tly
proper 'that the ' '70,000·,.0(lO ·w l1icll ·ha..~ ll t n pa,Hl iHto t be Tre,a:,,;.n rJ:· b)
the ta , on cntto11 after· 1he wa·r·, ,v.bi,.·•b '\\"~K rn.•rlainl,- u11con·. tittitiooal,
f:5bould be. given back to tbe States ro,:r ed.oeat.io1 :•ti purpost's~ I do not
believe that tax, if .efund eil, ,voul.(l e,•. . r ·, aclt t'ho lleo1, _,t!: frorn 11 bom
it was deri . ed on _~iually ._ a;od I do ·H,o t th.ink it ·"~·oul<l be au .· D1or,e than
justice to tb.e Sontbern Stat:··. · tba·t that 111oue,. , .b ould be J)aid back., and
1t ,e oul.d not be app,1.ied to~.· bette;r 1,urJlO·· C t'ban to tbe education of the
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Q. lle,. euforci'ng tbe com·mon sc·bool ,sy ·J.ems. of the varioo· States.TA. Yes,, sir..
Q~ Do anJ other su:1_1·g estious.oceo r to you to 1n. ·• k e to th u con11nitt ·l!. f- .
A .. N·one at all,,exeep:t,tor1Jpeat w·bat have sa.i.d, t.h;;it we w11nt,no legisla..
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ti.on ·in the South for our affair,s further than that which can he gi;ven.
to us by our States a.nd the natural pro·tec:t1on w.h ich the Geueral Go,v ~
erume:nt ·.-,0'honld
f.., .' t'h
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of this q.u estion an1l to the demand for tbe lalto.r .. hich ex'"sta in ·t h,e
South as th. · bes.t protection that can be atiorded.
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B Y. JH.r
..·A' -1-iL,
Q. ·w hat i.s, yunr busio.ess !-A. I am a cotton p·l anter.•
Q, Baivl~: you ,ev·e r b,el<l offiee or been. a candidate for offi.ce t-A.. · ever
in. my l1fe1 I ba1re ,confined myself ·xc.losiv·ely t,o my bosiness affairs.
Q. ··•t lU speak eotir,e ly ·t hen fr.om your observa,tion as a business
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Y,es, sir,
HENBY PALMIEBI
afli.rme-d .and examined.
By ltr" CALL •
Question.. I und,e rstand tba . you 'h av . some.facts to pmse·n t in regard
to tbe interest of Jtat 11t~ and the relation·· of ,c ap,i tal and labor· to mat.
ters coo.n ectetl ·with them . .-Answer. ·Yes, s·i r..
Q~ 11·a te your statew,e nt.-A. fly statement .refers to R ct"on 8 of
articl · I of the ,o on~tiitution, in bich is .. :r itten hat" ·Oon.g ress shall
1Jave power- to 11,romo,te " - Q.• A i-·e you connected with patent:' in any wayl-A. I .have been :in-•
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terested ·u:1 p . te ··t · ·· ince 18[72,
Q~ Bow·t· As a:u i veutor·' '- A. As an inve·o tor and solicitor or p·afr
ents -
CongreM sba.11 have po, .er •· 11 .... to pl"•cuno·t ~ tbe progmaa of eeie.ne~ and nsefu
,a rts, by ecur.il.n.g fo, , limited. timea to .a utbo,1 . a·nd 1nveDtom the ex,e ].a aive ·r ight ·t e
thei r ref.:pec. i v·,e wri imge. and diJeco·v·e rie .
. ba·v e wntten a statement. w1tb. ·r egard espeeia'll,y to, inventors, also
tonchiog u.p on the labor question genei~atly.
Q,. ls y·our·s:ta,tement one of facts or op·ni.on!-A.. Foots.
Q. Give it to us1- .A , Mr. Cba.i rmant in this great b,Ioodless wa.r between. l bor and ea.JlitaJ, an.don the Jabor si'de of the q0re8tion,. we Aod
the inventor, the creator ~f all _imJlroYemeuts .i n th,e_arts, and sei~·oces,.
the fa .her of progress, .a nd for all that a mart3° · to a beartle· s a·n d ava..
ri,cioi1s oommo.oi J:, T·bere .aire a few iuvent-0r1 who 1110000-d. in ,o·btain..
iug payment for tbei:r· · ,.· r,"ices.;, there are thou ands who spend their
-ubstauce mentally and p .ys,ioally pro bo·no pablico and ge·t starvation
for tb Jr :pains~. Some dass ago Mr. S,vinton,, who posed as ,a, labor reformer before your com.·m.ittee,,ti ta.ted that all patents,sboul,d he free, i~ e.
that altbougb th •Jab .· ~.. r· was worthy of his hire ·t he iuventor was not.
I ·will ·u ot d w·e ll at lengtb upon the incousis.tency o·f t·h is ·m a,n's views;
the) ar;e unjos:t, a-ud nnwortby of notioo1 History has tan.g.b t,u that
tyrann.y i' poses its oulra,g es upon the fleople gradoall.y aud s.ystemat..
ieaUJ, its shackles being welded liok ·by liu·k~ ,So gmdnal is the impo.
,s.it. ion tbait it ofte,H m ·m ains onno.ti.e ed until the borde·o becomes e. .i r,emely DJJp1~ssi,e. To,.day the. people are gasping for 'b reath u.ude.r
the. at roe.ions · ·e ight, of ·mono.poly. Every ma . ·ho · ·o rks for his daily
bfead bears bis · bare o.f' t·his. im-perial burden.
Mr. Ubai.rmau, tbe ,gue; tio.o is not, "·A re we wisely go,:reroed I" b11t
ogieall and effecti ely.,, ' 'Do ·we enjoy p i~sonal freedo·m a.nd the trait
of our labor!" Of ,course the las·t qae·. tion must be answ,ered in t'be
u,e.,1ali,Te~ Tbose who enjoy most n.re tho '. e who create least of the
·woil.d.' s goods, How tl1en do ·we beneAt bf the leadership o.f tllose
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great lights upon. sooial science, po' ·it.i.eal econ.o m, and refo·n n'
ou
do w,e ben.e ftt by ,o ur ela~rate and e~pensive legis:Jation, .- odour· Go'f...
erom.ent mac\h ines. tha(i drain. ft<Hn tbe oonsomer •· ·250,,(KlU,OOO a l·ear ,.
lVhat do onr ex_oon ive libraries, wi -11 t'heir ·b riHiaut s~ndi.es u po~• 10 au;o
kind amount to! ·Tbe facts. aiie g1arin.g, they stare reform. out of oonu-
t-en·a nce ..
M:r,i C•b airman, the ,science of accumulation has defeated al attemptSi
in the direetion of justioo; practically the ntasseg are mere tools, beasbs
of burden; ·t bey work, cra;w·I alon,g,, sufte·r, or strike ·matily at t·beir 01,J'.lressors in. their de..~peration" 'llhis, is hi1s·t o:r·l aud .i t is ours to--tlay·.
The monopolist says: ,,,.W ,e .are ·- ell enough. \1J.hy not. Je·t 111 ell enough
alon.e.:;"· or else they ·•:--.Y: u·w eII,. what are. yon go·i ug to do about. 1t · _,,
M:r. Chairm,a n:, I cal I yo11r attention to t'he rela.ti-on e,xi,s t,i ug bet . ·-· een
o·n r Declaration of lnd.epe0idence of 17·70 and tb.e preseo·t issues between
labor a,nd_c.a·pital.. :s trange indeed is the fataHt..: which com.peJ.ij us,.
aft-er a period oif one hundred Jear&,. to bor.row from the protest, of o.o.r
forefathers. aga.i nst a fo.reign d .,spot word.~.- an.d ,s eutiments ·w·ith which
to, characterize and de·nounce a ,class of our fellow -citi.zens w:b o ha~,~
bni1t up agalost, us (by· :·peei 1 leg.islatioo and tr-eaclter~~) a de~JK>ti m
greater th.a·n ·t hat which eaused the ropt ·re betwee .E ·-gland aud this
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By be C.D i 1a11A.N· :
Q~ Do yoo n1ean that w,e are wo ;se otr than our fath8rs were t the
outbreak o,f t,h e Revolu1·ionary war - ·A .. P .r eeisely ~ we .are worse otl:
But you may··. ·a y how ·can io,·11 _idnal · hold ~-he peop{e in ·~ uda,g,e, My
answer·is tha:t they d.o -e ecti ,,.eJy, and the G0Yernu1ent of' fhese u ·uit ;tl
1S t:tes is. behind the mono1~Iist■, tbe capitali ·• t. The demands of ·t -r. e.
lobb.,y are re.s pecte,I, wh·ile the ·p rotest _ and 11elition~, of on:r opp,r essetl
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people are destlised, ignored, a~,,l pigeo~hol · cl. The :pre'• ·, _the.pulpit,
th.e bench., preach ))at:1enoo to tb·. · peopJ'e.. Our rever, n<I. :fri.,e-uds sl10,Y
u.8 ho·w·,. b·ooa.d and \~ ater i •.,a possible diet., aud in point of fac.t i'_is a popu,..
Jar on--~ Pa:tieuoo may be a,. v'irtu .· b l't, me · oe~e to be Jla.tl nt ·, vben
they begin to, starve.. '\ _.· hen a£ter ~ h· ·r d week's u·ork ... ith bend .· d back
they reach their m1se-rable llome '\\1t-h mon ·y e:o ough to J>B·Y their ·1and. Jor-d ·· nd a Ii ttle. balance u1i t.11 w h.-ich to IJ•t .i lct ice s J ni-s.ta t"\"at iun OH the
eomi.n g ,veek, bow oan n1en be paticn _! This. is, a true J)ictnrc1 I t ·_ II
you, J:lr. Chairma:n, that tbits, tal abo - t flie wo.1·kn1a.H · ,e·t t.mig a ou . e
of hi~ own is, bosh, a:od it is a tbeor~ ·peculiar to ee-r t:aiu 1ne.n whoo1 fortune has fal"ored.
It ·wou."t wasb fo·r a cent, 1f I ma1 a,toi1t :a sla11g hut
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e &~yi H <'-',..
Q:. W.b.v· ·s.lt bosl1. -A. Because tb1ere .is 11.o t oa:e man in teu tho11sa11d
who eau r a ~-h tbat, poin ;, ; ihr i.-r he b . , n.ot . non~l1 to pa3 fur h ·i s rent
a·n.d his 11ece.ssaries he et1nnot bl"" b,y an,~thh1,g, and. ·i f lie cannot lay by
.a inythi.ug b.ie oannot buy . house~
Q. Areyoua,laborio_g man -- · .··es,sir; .lam e .. ent,iallya,l1atMJr.•I
ing mao,.
Q.. Yon .a re an inv,e nt r '! -A. Not only au io,,.entot, ht1t I am a man
who works mJ ·j oveutions.,, works them into shape and brio.~_tb · m t-o
perfection ; not an inventor wbo)ies. on hill sid .and m. rely tell · tlt'op,e
I ha;ve done &0 an,d so,, go_ahead and com 1••1ete it-; b'nt I ha.v,e z,erf.ecte,1
myin ._ entions and worked them. ou·.•
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By Mr. CALL:
Q~ ·, v-hat is. your 'i.n e1ttion .: .A. I am coming· to it pre ·ently, if yon
will permit. me.
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:IELATION',S .B,ET'Wl!lEN LADo1t &'11> CAPITAL.
B,y .· be1CRARHAN :
,Q. I ,. oul,d. hk·e to a ;k a ,q uestion before you go on; I .am not ~con~
T'ertiu - your poRition,. Yon say· that t.b as .ertion that a w·orkibgm.an
can get a hon.~ , ftt-·r au~bile., th.at b.e e·\n boy a hon~e from h~s savings,
is all. bosh ·t -A . l say a,s a 1'11le it is bosh, und.· r the pr;esent regime. _
Q.. Your circum.stct11oes1 J'onr kno,v],e d. ge o.f' sour ·o.rroundioga and .
the-,oo-udition, of otber wo1·k1n.gmeo is the basSi.s upon wbicll ,you fuund
that p -opositiou , ,_ _._.· ... Pr. ci,sely,
__
·Q~ ~• ow state what tba;t k uo·-·le{lge 'is, a lit1 le in de ta-it-A,. Will ,you
all,ow me to proeeed tw·o pages, furtlier Hnd tbeu I will ,come to that,,
Q. Very wfjlin.. I do not wish to, interfere ·wirth th.e eon·t ionity o.f your
statement, bu. I 1Sbou Id 1ik.1e .:r-ou. to e:x:i,J.a io ·th at,, beca!1se ·that is ,a, fact
we want to kuo,v r1bout if'lt is so.- ,.. ·yea,, sir; I ,viii proceed: P ·ec>ple, say the in,..ontor is'' 811-ck a bad 1n,aM{Jtw, you, know,"" tha,t be al.ways
makes mi. tak:e=s in business, alwtiys.Ja;ils. Wh·o, I a; k,. woul,d not. be a
bad manager with a monopoli, ·t as it partner· · r., Gonl.d., for instance., if
Jrou w'in al.luw m1e to uten.-. 100 uan1,es h:e reTbe ,C Jl'A.m~AN~ We a·1~ :n ot squea:mi.sh about that. ·
T.he WIT.NESS. Hr~ Gould, tor instance; who cau save· bis interests
from the cunning gra ·. p, of ;S oeh ·meu.,, especially when that partner o·wns
two.-fbirds interest, :.· c. ·The in,rentor n.iay be a bad o:r g:ood. manager,
but never can ba,, e auy ·voi.ce or po·w·:r · on der soeh eond1tJ.ons..
B Jv Mr
- __ oi: · A.LL'"'
Q~ Tell ·me ·wily Ir. Gon]d ·would not ·be a goocl partner·l -A. He
woo.Id. not ·be a goQfl ·p artn -r beeau · .· ]ie, would ,s,wallow ope., erything.
Q.. Dow· doe,s fltat ba1•·P .,
·. It happeus. because be pa't, m all the
mo11ey aud ·w ould ba,..,e all the . 3J-"',
Q.. Is i.t not a good. thing to ba,fe. moneyio bosiu s f:__A. l tia a very
good ·t hiug, bu.t :it ,-,i1npl,y etreets t.hi: -: tba the ID&D ·w ho pots in his
bra in..K ,1-gai o · t mou · y i '" o nt -r,■ozen ,out.
Q. I d.o 11.ot see bow th.at ·h a.1•pents.. It ,seems to me.'it would.be a firstrate thing to ba,,.·e a partner who ha,(l money in tb.e busiineBS.,- A., That
j - invHri.~1.b ly tb .. ea · e11,
Q. '\ \ ·ould you. prefer to have a p.artuer haviug no money t-A. Oh,,
no,; I am not fighting 100,nopo'ly _
;, I d.o, not propo,. e to, figh.t monopoly..
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All ·ioveutor~i who pot up their brains a .aiust :money w·ill btt fleeced.
Q. I thou ht that was ·w ha·t ~u i.u .lentor al·way ·. did, pot his brai.na
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up!-A . Then tile) arealwa.:vs_fleeced. Thereareso•m~ ex:eep·tions.,, but
tbe , a.r,e so rare tba tbe, .are hardly worth talkin.g of•.
Q~ Is, not tha.t ·wba.t tbe p,ro,iijion in the, Oonstitutioo is, that a man
sh.an lla., "e th .· exelosi ve right to bis 10~ ·eu·tion for the purpose of pr-o,,
motio_g the ,,rogre~,.s of th~ · u: eful art ~- ~A- Precisely ;, bot Oongreaa
has los,t sight of the fact that 1•rogr• . sand tbe regular· ooune of ·t rade
and ·t ht, Ja,.,v of accou1ulatio:n ·. ill defea;t that., and Co,ogres-s, s·h ould.protee.t tbe: iuv utor tuot■e than it doe . , and it•is for that purpose that I am
a~ 11,r e~ent addr,e ·s1ng , ~ou
Q. Go on - .A. , looopo:li, l ·,viii tell Jtlill tba't, the ·pe.o,p l,e are satisfted,
b 1t that 1t is. the. 111ternaJ. a 0 itaton ·\vbo do a.II tile talking and all the,
m·is.;1,hief' le _u t Uyon t,hat th r•- are no-t enough .agitators, u·p on this
quet;tioH,. and the. reason is, tbat tl1e world i8, ·too selfish and too conaen,...
a.t:i ,.
1'he1·e ;1 .l'e a _g reat rnan) n1en " ~ho are so oonservati.v e that, they
oldec't to aJ">pear and.11u1k'-a state1ner1t of ·t his kind; they do,uot ·w ant to
be laugb~d at; t'hey do uo,t want to he bootP-d as "'com·monists,"' &c. I
am 110-r .a co1nmnuigt:; I do not a1a,pr·o,re of communi.s m; at the same time.I
want to tip~ak· o..i· u·.!et· . · as t·11eJ· _ppear t 0 me. A.--'ssoon as an ag1..t at~rap-1
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
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J)ear.s .·b odis,p lay , -~001 ability, mo1101MllJ 1mm ed·atel1· tri,e - to bn},: bi1u;
if t.beJ' c= noot bu bi'm tb ,n. tbey ·· in u ·e him. u11,11· p,o 'S-i hle; that i . tbt\ -~
'WHl _g et hirn out of the waJ~ lt t . :"ery ea.s il,· don..,., I wiH gi,-c J·ou au
instance where t'he impos'i tion conu~s, \Vb~,1.' · I 11:a\"'.-- h·ul soiue experience
of :it. The l1orse-car co . pauic . entoroo i rule coit npeUilig th't'lt men
1
to remain sta.11diog al~ daJ-; l'·heD , __ clri1:- er 1•,eaches bonl ·_. he•~ ,p:r · att,· fX hau,·'tttd If an J of these Inen a:re .l am ~ti for IiJ ·,. So1u e.)."t1ars a.go I t1..i.etl,
to in:trod,n~e ,;1 seat for them., ,Qui·· pbd.a u·· ·b rop·"_st, l\Jr., Bergh, came t·o
my as istance, but I bad to gi,·e i: n11•.,. the bosses ri .tin~d to, g-raut tids,
humaoe ,req nest ; whl· ' . B -~au.se th )' ea1 . _,111or,e for tbe J,os~ of a, bo1 ·s e
tha11 for that of s man; a n1an f.; O ·t8, nothing, clt h~t .f. uot a n1uch. us a
horse.. ,vbeu a honre dies it is 11, J)rntc t .1.cal lo s ; \\' h i.u a nutn die . tb,e re
i ., another :1nau to tak . his-1,lace,, au,l so, i.t .i!OOR~
1
No, sir I ,(lid no,t
1 have not tiu·i5b.ed. uiy zstatiewenr, but, I a ..
Q, w ·us tbat an i. I ,r·e ntiou-a p.ateu t
claim .a uy iu-v ntion for it
1N .ill ., _ A..
i
at Joor d1 posal.
T e CB ·-m .·· ~. P' rbap s yon had bett,er go right tbrough w.i th your
1
s,t attamen ,..
The \VIT! Es . - er~ w -11, I ,,. in 1,ro00e'd.
0,1 talk about you1~ei,-- d
t«J n_o the m,eu of' a r.ailr-•md con ~
rig.h'ts.
9
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\\'"bl'·, at an eleotiuo a J'e.&1 or
pan\," i II t hi . t,i t3· \\r,e re n1arc hed t O the 1 ol h, Hk .. cat 1 a II d co 1rpcUe.d to,
vote oue tick -t; and thh; ,vas done uuller'tb~ nose ,o f ) ~ollr disrr;ct attor . .
D~'•) ',, l'. ·ho cou1ti no-t ; .... HD,l· t bi Hg be ro11 d 'It ti 1.wn this. 1
SJ wcial occa~ion..
Lib .'r ty exits a1 o:ng th~ workm n biere, if i,u lil:wrt~~)·on im1dy ·r.he
right to clo ·e by eui ~ide. a i :rable e:x:1.s·tenoe,
·_ hen a 1na , 1s ;v,el.l
fixt-tl he imagiues, that all around him are ha.1,py becao · e be is. Inebriates t-:~l tlta1. wav- too ..
llr1 C-hairn1au, I am uo't Ii . .-- former; I am what is kuown .a s a g owle,r .
I gro\vl b eauzs.e I lu1, e bt eu hurt. I wonld. bit: , hut that. wou id ouly
make m,a tters ,Yo~e,, 'W heu I wa·l t aloHg our t nroughh1re , and, see
the e.x tent o " mt1 1rork,1aucl when I eonsitl r that nig pafe,it iN free to
the public (a.s Mr.. Sw.i nton d~tiire~ all ·p atents to be)4 and 'W.be11 J realize
wl at a ~plrndid thh g l i 'o b , a. 1,u.bli,c benefactor, ,_· peci.aU)~, llr..
Cllairn1an, \Vh ·n w't, are b u titing a r alth,,•· aud pro.·11erout1 b.r aHch of
t:ntd ., a . eusataou of 1•leasure ,cra,,Tls, do1wn 011e''1tS bu _",k~ and a tinge ol"
11rid,e li_g hts op · \..en the coH.nf .nauct. of a hungr~ i1rieufo.r. Mr. ·C.lJair~
rna n, I c~· en late: that si uco t be Chicago tire 1( w lieu I Hrst: brought to,
practical - istence n11y systemn of iron hose for bi,:h. bn1Jdiui~)1 t~ o
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ow·o er .. of our w·.1rebooses. in ·t·hiis couutr,. o,we me ut l .as $1.;000,000.
,)11 G·oul.tl thiuk~ that with per~ e,r-c1n : and grit a in.au is buuntl to
succeed. W •I.I, if }1.r - Gould had mt..t t'be ,ob -ta,c le that have, 1•re.~ented
'th ·msel, e-, ·t o m·e I ~a·n teU hhn tbat be nd~ht _yet be pbddli11g . t~
t.r-a. Jffl to t bi . d ~.Yr or 1u ilk in_g (,ows u 11011 t la e. oIrl ta1►w Q- Do you tbiuk that. 1t is either '""i~e or courteous to -·._. loot ,som. ·one
•an · hen the1-e ~ 1•,,. hun(l.red ' i u tbe co11utrJ that a·ou might ~ Leer to
pe,rsoni(}"' all th e\T'ih; of' 1110 011oly -ihnt , ·-on are ~uffi -, ,~,-g lroru and
against t . hich yo«i \TOtdd cou11~,b nn · - ..· . x ·o., sdr; 1 1Si11rr>I ,. u1t-ution Mr.
Gt:nll,I bee o,· ~ h · i. , t: e hts man I htJi,.ard he1..,.., Hud l lul',-,e :1e=1d bis
statf meil'ts an(l ~cognize tJ1 ei tu.accnracJ",. .·__ t t l1e ~u 1n e ti ru·1, I sng~
ge ted 't o you tb=1t I - bo,uld uot n1t uti.ou aul· u·uu~-. 1 eM~ .a . y-o u Ill ease
about tb, t.
The ( }H IRll · N .. I ,Jo n.o oh}ect- to tbt.; anent.ion of" u~na~s, but, I do
not \\·a Ill' tbe l~Cord~'" of tbe coru uii ttce to be ~:int 1•l,·· =1 \"'eh i1el f~,r the en ·
\"'eJ· itnce. of w hat · on Id he i u1 ll·rO) >'t'F i u t .1"00u l"ti~ he t ,,. et:1' n ,:·~u I I mP,11 ,..
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Tito \VI ~.r
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do I... T ,l I hi i -~ u1io1-e of a J)o] 1mie,a,I aud ,geuera.I
&b.tt,eU1e1l·t tlu10 a persoual one.
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
l92
BELA.TI.O·NS BEfWEEN LABOR Altt.J CAPITAL
The~CHAIRMAN. ·Go on.
.. .
1'I:r . Chairman, I desu-e to corr-ect a pi-evailing m.iiaap~
prebensi.on on the part of the worl(l in general rega.r di · g :·o .opoli s,t·si
It ·i s H-tpposed th· --~ these men are ·wiser~ s·h rewder, and more :i ndustri-on th.an their impecoo;oos. neigh.hors.; Mr.. Gould's Wo.rJd ~y,s o, and
llr.. Til(ten',s Son affirms the same th o.ry.. •Ir.. B -one•t'a Herald. be~He·,,. · : it, .aud }(r:, Villard ·s P 'o st .c ban ts, it poli ti:e~ ly., w'h ile llr., Mil l"s
The
W17NESS ..
Tribune· chimes i·n i.ts " ~Y? ay·f" Yoo see there is no .especial :1}erso:n
m.e nitioned there... I might niention · Ir . John K.e ly's Star,. 'b ut tbat
is 1mmateria1~
T ' e On · ._
think I
-• · -o·o ba~e it very equitably distributed now, you
The WITNESS., I tbi.n k n.ow I have· got it S,p read. out generall,y. ' Kr.
Chairman, disclaiming any intent-:io11 to depr -eiate ·t be virtues. ofa"Dy ,o f
th e-.abo, e~m\ntioned mou.ey kings, I t!Jink ,,hat, t'hey ._ill no·t compa:re
fa: om·b ly in.bn-..·nes · tact an,d . knowledge wttl1 many of our merchants.
1 tbi k th.at, iutellectu.ally .·peak1ng.,. th -y cannot hold -_caudle to o,n r
-· verage s.t ates,men.. One ofthese. gentlemen of'tbe.guilded sph,e re, fac-tiousl3· re,1tHed to yottr in.quiirie·· , regardin,g the wor,"io.g c:~as ·,·es b1·stating
·t hat tbe 1~eopl.~ llt _tl a fair ,c.h.ance to maike a tortnne, wheo he does not
pay li·v ing wa_
ges to his. emplo1·es, .an,d to cap th ·_ climi x of ab· u·r dit,··be
ml'viises tbe ·people to'' go get edu1eated." .l lr.i Cha.ir.mao,, the p.-ractice,s
by wh.i ch ou.r capitalis,ts, have fallen into ·w ealth, I think,. had better re:ma'i'n a part of th.,e ir private and. un.seeo life, for ,certainly mo -•. Ji.ty cannot benefit by· their exa1nple~ _ Tbe111J is notbiu.g as suooe~sfol as .s ue.~
cess., and it is the opportunity that makes t'h e tbief, as it is th·._· oppo
t:nnity that makes the bloated ono11oli, ti f yon will ,oon-•·ult the sta-t'isties yo-u will observe that, a very small pro11ortion ,of our merch,a ots
acquire large fortune •. ; ):-OU · •.-..ill -also .n otic •· - th.a t our s.brewd,est, most
indo.s,t rions and be _-., t bu .:in,ess. me:n re. continually failing,, which goes
to prove that there ·is m,ore good. Jue - t1ha1l good mana:, -Dlein t iu this
·o· -." -.,r co·· o•C!a 1"'nd11~t"'" a- l"l,d 1
-,er- - ,B i'l!ID ·n eAos•
Dl 1l1~0-na'"'1re· b·t s ·1n11Di,£
sa1iy qualifications for_sucee··-· sful bu.s i:ness, ·b ut the k·"ntl of bus·iness done
by -· be mooopolists refe·r red to is not-·i oclnded in the cat· gory ,o f geu.eral
bo ·in•·. s. A business. wbieh p ; rm.i .s ·•· man to aoo.11· - -111ate $·'.l00,000,000
in a 1scnre of 3·ears i.s a bnsin - in which the Government shou·ltl take
ah.and. Congress wilhin the last tt·w ~-.e .. rs bas I.1i,:1shed public favors
Hpon these mouopolis.ts, thereby g.re·at]y increasing the ceutralizati.on.o.f
·i ndlv·i dna' powe .~ This 1n1i t.ake on the riart of our legisbttors amounts
to hi,~h treason against tbe peop.1·• I _predict that if a rem.ed.y to tb.e
e,.x.1sbu,g ev-i l is n.o t forthcouung th.e re will arise a cyclooe of \"·@.ngeanee
and retribution t·hiat will .level thing r~rett3i"" generally, incl. <ltn"-' Congress an,tl its wealtby ward,s. You. will plea,s~ oh•-erv.,e, Mr,1 Chairman,
th.a · I am not reproaching our monor,olists for t·b e ·t~1te of ~Wain in
which we find ow.s ·J.v-es. . lono_
polists. i re httm:an an1d. se]fi -11 ; a.11 men
work in the di1'.,e ctioH of monopoly fro:m the ,s cav .- oge·r t,o the hig·b es,t .
n1ortnl. ; all .are stru_ggli11g to obtain m.ore goods, n1or-e pleas or,es, but
le -- can su.cce. d.. :lly re·proaehe ·. are uoequi,:r. oc;:111:v mldm~sed 'to our
l gish1tnre ·, gene·r al - ncl local, and I , a · .a unit i u tbe grea·t nation . I tribunal, lift up my ¥oi·,e for 8·,000,000 ,,.oters.1to bnpeach this ·Goveruwen·t
for ,crbniu.al negli,gen.ce. of ·i ts tros for it·-,usu·rpat'i-o , ,s 0 f 1>o·wer, and its
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con fiscat1on of national pro11ert.Y
To obtain a pa.t:ent 11owrul.~:rs i~ eqniv·.i l,e nt to walking· out .- ·t n:q t.b t
ninong .a ]lack or· wol,es ·wra.pp£.IA in a sh -·t s.oaked in gore. Th.e.
i·1n.pos1t1ou. . 11m• ticed npon. tlJe invei:a,tor 'b egin_ in ·t he _Paten·t Offl,ee.
T er,e is e11tirel,y too 10Ltc'b red. ta11e abont the Patent O·f fi.ce-a great,
!!
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
RELATl0 ·lJ.S, BETWEEN' LABOR AHD CAPITAL.
1
193,
deal of unnecessary quibb1.ing and. soperfloons corres.po,ndeoce. The
•examine.rs are very parti,cular 011 so·me oc.,casio,ns, and ~xtraordiua.r:Uy
ea.r less upon 0th.e r& They g.rau't, paten.ts t-ha.t _infringe npon others,
an,'I retnse1claim. that ·· re novel • . ·whe-n an :i u,..entor ap,pl1es fo r a
patent be bas to 11a:r his atto.roe:v 120 to mak,e ~irnwing and._ peei6e.
tion ; bile mod.e l ma;y coijt from to to 1100; h.e then send,s a m!JD -J ord r tor t ,'l5, (fl.m t Go -e rumeot fee) to- the Oommi · loner of Patent&
, .1suaUr ln=J applieatjon i . : rejected., and he is referred ·b y the. examiner
te some p:·teut upposed to a ··ticipate bis. It often happen . 'that tbt1t
ef'!rence re·tates to an. in·v eution ,e t.irely dlfrerent.. .·. lt :r. am~nding
tb·~a.-1111 ic .· ti.on to conform ·with. the whims ,o f thee. am ·uer (whose iufaJHbiJity mos·t no·t be que tioned.) the peli1.tio·u er returns it to the Paten.t
Office,,with some u-uim·p ortantalterations. 'f'h petit~on ·is tbeo granted;
bu·t . accom_p an .·_ 1ng tb ·._ grant i , a not1ce, ca Hing the i.n.vent-0~ s a · t ntio
to an interr rence on tb.e part of a co·. t-empo:r ary petitioner ; this ·involves. a cost of about . ~oo; unle·s s, the pa.r ties ba:ve the matter .setlJ.ed
by refe.ree. lt freq oe.n ·ly happens that the two applications for p tent;
r ef r to· invention,& whic• do not eoufilet. Tho uunecessary time,
labor, and money· is ·wasted~
Ju case ·the app1ieation goes through s,mootbl_
:v· the Gove·rnment asks
$20 :m ore, ain.d our· p,r oud inve:n tor ·b e ins to look ,a round for eapi · al to
J.dace bis J.m·p:rovemeot on the market If the in veo tiou i,· ,raloalll ·, tha
inventor · 111 easily find a capital" .. t, who wi11, make tbe following pee-uhar arran_gemen·t with h1m: Tbey fo m. a stock ~om·p ·ny ,o f 20,000'
~hares, oo.t or bich the in·_-· ntor rece1.v·e s 51000 s'bares,, ri · preseutiug
half' a million dollar · at par, all nea.t'ly engra,ved, and legally drawn, in
do~ed, ccrt1·6.ed and red taped.
_
Tl .e m is a paicl-in working capital of eao,,000 for manufacturing ·use,
to ll~ y for building, machinery, -material,[ and Ia.bor. The:n they a,gree
t·o 'b uy a fe·w e'bares o 1he in ,e ntoi' . tock t.o help him along and. re.iml)ur, . :·. him for · is long years of labor i.o. perfecting the i · ll ~ovem:ent..
·T helr ,,. ry li.'bemlly ag~ee to ta'ke of him.500 bar·. sat., ·:10, which about
Jl· }Jl tbe in l""e ·tor for the time, labor, and mo11e: he_has, ex1·t entled in
◄le,..elop,i ng the im·provemen·t.
This is an t e. cash he. may expec't:..
J)u.ring ·e e.ral years th ·. com.pan, remai s at, a , .tandstlll ; nothing ia.
◄lou : exoopt1 o::,· pa1
yiog on't s,iu e.u~e ,salaneti. Tb . inv ntor beoomea
◄1 · sJJonden, :; _hinks be hatl better sell out ; does so ·f or .a song, and t · at
-closes bi .. iut ·res · ·it1. the invention OYer·which he spe· t so 1nany sleepletis .H igbt and upon whic-h hie d voted ,s o many laborious days, 1SWeat..
i~u,g bis blood a wa~r ~u~ s.tiutiug bis stomach _to euece ·d i·o. bis tas'k..
Di-d e·ver one uf our ,,r.atl street nabob do su-eh work T O.h, no; ·t hat
i . iaot hi .. bn,Joe .· s.. He waits 1mtieu.t1y· whil.e the inv,e ntor is u.nmveliug -the s ieotific tbr: ad which arc soon to 'be wo-v·eo into go,lden and
im :.eri:al garment~ for moo,opoly to . ear. When the capitalist bas se..
-cured fhe inventor's st,ock a,n,l rid himself of that erratic in.dividual
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(,,rho everlas 1in,g ly wan·t s to borro-w money before any m.one); is mad •
-0u t of' the con foand,e d in ven tio11 ).,, then ·t e c p,i tal.'is t cha oges his. taetics.
Ht i1mmediate·1y sets bis macb.i.o.e-ry· to work and doubles bis ~nv,eslr
1neHt over and over again.. 111 the .m ean t.inHJ onr poor iu,~eutor· is polling tb.e. de oil. by the tail and 1scratcbin.g hi.s head in deV'is.i.o g new
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sch ·mes, 1n which he. is deomed to be swindled. e.v ery t1 ·,e -
I
T. ·ia trick played ·opo·n 'inventors by meu -o f means, is so well ooder1
Mtootl, so freqae ·. ,tly ·. ·itnes ·- ed., th.at its victims cea- . _ to 'i.n -•pire a .J m..
i•oth.f'~ Th.e p ._pl.· loo ·.
.
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-c!OHOJo· ion.,
an in,,.entor' misfortu·ne as. a fo.r egone
often that it no, long,e r· inter-ests any one.
01100
It bappe·n s 1SO
13---C ,2,---i(t.J LAW)
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
19'4
a ·E,LATJ.O -" S BET\VEE · LABOR AND CAPITAL.
The w,o·r k,man'' s ase is precis 1y the sa,me. and lo e . notice through its
monotony.
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Mr.. Chairman, ' res,pectfnl1:.· subioi · to yo1J.r com.m1ttee a 11Iau, or
rather a sketc·h thereof; by' which boit'h 't he in.¥entor and ,oonsnmer w·o old
be b . oefttet1.:
Tho ,·Tation.aJ Patent A.ge11cJ·, headquarter :, Was'lllin.gton; ,sob-offices
at tbe pos~,office of each ts,t . f,e.ca11ital in the United ,S tat,es.,
To 'take oui. letters~paten.t £or in·,..eoturs at a cost of not ov,e r· i:5 to rbo
io\9 ntor,,, to ad,rerti:se the sa:me with deacri.p tion t·b,ereof eac.b .m onth fo.r
one y:;,ar. To ofter tor ·ol.e ma.nn£aet 1rer,s ' H,~ n es a:t a modP .- ate roy ..
,a l .r (same .r ate for an 11urcbasers)~ · o aooowJ)lisb . uch ales bJ,. selliu::
suitable stan1ps or trad . -mark~: to the· manufa.ctorer as be. ,ma,l req_o ire
them.. 'We ,g iv · the. i.n ,·entlon to fhe public in -tba·t WBJ.. ,Au,l aDo,v any
.man.u:faeturer to ·anufactore on }l.aJiug us 5 ·p e.r eent~, or one •·- r ·t wo
oe t _ o· · each article be m nu.fa tures,, ha•.iug stam,ps :for th.at 11ur.r,ose.
To i,m pose a beavy _fine for •Connterieit,1ng or using an ·, pateut ,vitbout
said. '",t am·1>, and to oWer a lar_
ge :r ,@\l"'ardfor th . tletec'tion o.f a'Diy ·vio]at:ion
of 'tbe law-t·
To stop infringer,s _with. preH·m ina.ry injunction, regardl ··. "S of bonds.,
and prosecnte all i n1:~iogero.en· .-. to al ,fin.al •-. sue, pa -...ot,agency ~t ntl in ..
v·e utor di.,idiu,g r-oyal ties.
· fr.. Cbai1 man,, f~1ere are few iu,,.entors,, if an,,,, 'Who 'Won]d not glaotva1 ail them-··lves of sneb serr.ites a, · this ageDC) would afford. It ,,~o-uld
be a source of' large r ,eve11u ., to the · · -overom.entl!, And v .ry tew in., gers;, W·OD ld
' be ore in1,e h,. a pow~r~
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f:r1D.
... t a'k ea st' a
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Goods manufactured und ·. r ibi pa.tent ·• ,,oold reach the co.ns.um,e r at ,a
reasonable ad\'ance U'poH oupatented _
goods.I
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Any m.anufac _urer cool(l handle t e in·,..,,ent.io ·.s becau •e t'be sa.m · · tax.
woul(I be 1udd by· aJ1. The inereas d ma,nniaetnre ·won1d realize to t1le
tll' entor a larger re,v enoe than he could obtain from an exclnsiv,e mauufac.'tu.re o.f Ids invention .
I think tba;t tbe·se de _· itlera.t _ are-wort.h, the t,-onsideration. of Con1
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~,., Uonclu(bn,g m._ stateoi1en :, Ir,. 1 .,ba1rm.an, ,and tba·uk"'ug yoor com.mittee for its,polite attention. to •·he sam,e , ,vou'Jd ,e ·p~es · th .. biO(le that
th ·. peopl. · of thi .· coon. ry will .ucceed in obta;iniu_
g legisla'tive relief..
There are Jaws upon oDr statutes that give the lie t-o our·Const-itutioual
prerogati - es as, citiz· ns • there a,re others wb.icb are specia·1, exeh1.Sil9,e.,
aud incompatible with tlJ moora J,e J)rioc.ip'Jes. Tbe }JOOP e 1nust- take a
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·b roadler 1,-ri . ,v of their affai .s. The.r e i -,too much individ.nal 110Hti,e s
uowadays.. : .e11 should disappea-r ·behind principles~ Wba1t i ·. man,
,«t -r aJl--a verJ fallible and perl _hable thing a;t. 'b · ~ t.. Princi11Iea wi.ll
. ta·n d engra,,.if41 on t.h e roo·k of ,ag,e •, ·while g ueration arter genera·tlon
pas· es, into o'b 'Ji.vion.
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Q. I~-bould lik · to get your· idea. of a national J»ltent, agency. E ,x
:1ltain it a little fu lier v.e,rbally ~A., · think that ougbtt to be dra:w n u.:p
v,eJ .Y. caren lly.. I l a·v e nn11,l y ,g i,·e-n n. s'k ,e-t cb
Q. Is the 'i dea t'hat. tbi .· . be a 11atioual :ins.t i utioo !- ·-. y ·es, · ir•.
Q:1 Est·1-blit;,b. •d by la·w Jl-.,,A. E.stablisbe,:l by btw..
Q. We ]taV8 the P·a tent O,ffi.ce now~ Would. J"Oll abolisb thatt-A.,.
B:r no means.. I tbiok t.b at gradually t'he Patent, Oflice would go ou.t
. k~ t·b1··
,. .. woa. Id sopel'Sede
- it,
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of.. e-·.. i _tenoo. I th1n.
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gradually·.
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Q. o·w ·wou].rl you ,e stablish this agency!-.. ·. • be idea ··s -· imply· to
a ·o rd to the iov·e nto.r protection against. the impositions, practiee(l upon
b'in1 now by agents aud 1nen of means,, also to protect th.e ,eons11m,e r
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RE.LlTIONS BET\V.EEN LACOR AND CAPITAL..
195
ag.a.·j ust exorbitaDt a.d \"anees, For i.us:tan ce·, ce.r tain _pa.tented artic·l es
sell at ire1·:f exorbitant prolits. Ii" the thing was giveu to, the pobHc tor
,a ,s mal) ~oyalty·, say 2 or ,3 per cent., or 2 or 3 cents on ...a.ch articde that
'Was, ge·o erally m,ain.ofac.tured, ·:rou ea,n see that the. re·i euu1e would be
1n uc b larg,er,. ·. speci.alls~ if the i~'t'en t ion was ,--a Iu abl,e,. w. ·He a great
m.auy iu,-- entious would not be tali.en u ,p at a·11..
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Q..- 'T he p oenrement of' the paitent itself is to be through the opera'ti.011 of f'his, agencJ f ·Y ou ba,re struck upon one o,f he wost &erioos
gr.ie ,aoees of the tim : "' T'h1s is a very important mat.te.r, and I do uot
:know what y'Oor .- :ngge· ti.o n may be ·'Yf~ortb ;, but, the men who do t.he
thin'l iu,g ancl the iu,~,e oting ,r-ery· seldom. get a ·pro11e-r reward for ,11tat1
tl1 · y b al e done ;. for the 8el'·,~iee the-y ha \'." e l'e:Dder,e d the eountr3. !-A.,
V ·l,rs ._ • :ldom..
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Q. How ·woultl yon ·h a·ve this n.~~tioual agency operate! It is to be
an i of;titn · iou, to, w.bie-h · be 'in \"eotor may apply tor 11.raetica.1 · · . i •tan ce
in tb,,e way of securing the ne , ssary ad, aoces au.d belp,i ng hi_m to
11ros. ~:et1.te hi.s claim for a patent befo,r e the -·a teut Offl(,,+e i.tself ! -. ·..
Yes, sir~ If I ge.t up a .:·,e,r taln i.n , , .n.tion;-. instead or a1.11dyin g to ~lie
Pa.tent Oftice nr taki.o g out a eaveat fo,r ·i t, I , ,oold a'Pp.J:v directly to the
n ·.·tional JJ .·tent a.geuc3~, .aud theJ "o.nJcl mak.e a ,··eareb iu ·the P,atl-"nt
Office anitl .a set!rtain whether that _p atent bad. been an.ticipa.ted or not.,
If uot. ·the.:r w,oul£1 be bouo d then. to tak, out a ·p aten't at their exp u:se...
Therefore '"e would wairt a, fund to _tart on. I shool,d tb'iok a ,.-erv
,s mall fon,I would suffice; probablr t2ll,OOO or - ·ao,ooo wou·l d. do to stnrt
ou.. Then tbey wonlitl tak · ont this, llateot in the ua·m,e o:f t'he 31Jl)1ic.a nt, tha, papers would be m,ad.e out 10 ·he usual wa,·, only going
through the patent 3:aenc3. Ins.teatl of being i _.•u.e d to the iD\"eutor i't
would b issu:ed to the patent a,ge·n.c~- in tb(l\ nan1e of the in entor,, a.n(l
this ageucy ·, -onl.d teeowe h.a·1r p a.rtn ~·r · ·w ith the 1-0.vcotor in t,o at ·i1.1,·e11tion. Tben tbe·r e ·wo11.ld be a , publication. ·mon,hly of this patent ageucy
gi iug .a deser.iptiou of th . vanons ~o,--enti :u. ·· ·1 1ateuted to ,d at\ aud.
offi ,.r ing·the sam· ior , al.e , and specifying what :ro~ al~y wool cl be cbai·g-etL,
This w~u.~d b_e seot tbrou., ~bout_th · country, aud iu fact - anufat~turers
tbrou.g hont tbe count-rv woi1ld be very 2lad to exa.10ri-n , this report a.nd
see whether th . re was anything in ·•'heir bI"ancb o-r tra.d e t'bat woul,l be
useful to them, in: W' _· ie.b ~a "'e they ,,.ould m.ak.e au a · :p lie t-ion to tbe
JrrJitent ag~nc,. l:o r a n1nnutacto1"1 .
lh}ense, w '· ich would be granted.
und r certain conditions.. I , oa,gest 1be ~tamp bnsinP.ss,,, wh.i:ch I thiu k
·w ~u·l d be a good ·p ]au, to seJl th· ·m bJ the: tboosantl, or by tb,e. buntlttd,,
wi tbout diseoo11t ; 'tbe'l~ rnnst be ,o ne price, so that there " ~ii l be o
·•- prefere:uce. for one mauufactnre:r or another..
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CALL:
Q .. Caoinot !{UH do a:11. that now undeT fb . 1aw a· it is,. -A. ·N o, sir~ _
Q. I ou ca\ 1 ,:er. up ag many patent aieucies ; , ,. yoLt ·p lea ~ \-A.. So
·•rou cau .. antl so ·tht1!,. told n1e bl!re wben J had to go · · o, tbe d.ill~r~Ht
i>a ll . rs .· pu tali ·:h C: letter ~, \1\ h.l tl'on't JO\ Eh a.rt a fHIJ~r of your own ;
then yon ,viU g·e t .. our ,~ie-\v·~ ,-:-entilated-and t'i'rculatecl .." It ·i s 1,,reeisely
~o
an analo:,:ooi-:= -a.( ·~,
Q. Yon 1nean :ron · nut tbe Go,. ~rnm eut to tlo it -.-A 1es. sir.,
Q · b ·1 .'rot1 ,:vant to change the Uonstit11tiou ::-A~ ••· o ;, I w·1n·t to
s"1·. to,.fl1 · Gu ,,·ern.ment,, •' H ,e r,- 1s au opJMtrtnnity fo:r 3 on to m· ke money·
enon~h to J:l .it)'" t b I! uational delL-."
Q~ Read the CcnJ-'"titn. ion and see ,vhat it say ..f-A~ I know·, 'bn· th •·n
,ve are· UO'f, l.touud to si·t on t 'be Con . titotion and rem ai.n there :r om,·er..
,v·e _go, on 11,ro.~r · ~~ing :, WP ,v111nt l~gisbl'ti:nn .
Q. 1:b ·. Uo11stitutiou ctt111 be. cha111_gftt'l uudoubtet'Uy.-A, \\·e req_u ire
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f,urther le,g i . lat.ion~. I do not p•ropose to ,ooofi'lle myself tu old la·wslt Ne·w
~ssues :r equire .u ew la ··s , a d ·, ,e bt v - bad.pl nty o:f Ia·ws la:te·ly,, special
Ja,vs,.
Q. . Tb : J>oople ha e O·Dly gi,,. n to Cohgre~s po·w er to pass law securi'Dg tbe excb1si·f'e right to tb·e invent-o J- - ~ The fi.rs:t and el•me·otary
_!
fuudamental prlncip e ,o f· the Ooustitutiou is.: "We, th.e people of' the
Un i.ted State~, in 01·der to • • • ,estabH.sh justi;ee, insure domestic tran ..
quilli.t.;r, 1>ro,·ide for ·t he com!mon ,defense, promote tb . g.e neral ·.. ,_ ·.Jfalit!,
• • • do ordain.,,&c " .:._ ow to , ' p,r(trauote the ge1·1era I welfare,'' Cou gr,e.Ns
h.a~ a rigb·t to leg1sh1te. · obody denies tha .
Q .. I tnJl,.,e r h~ard t~i\~ heforo~- ·. . \Vhat is the u·'"e of a _on.gre~t Ily
Cougr,e .s and t\vo .. tbircl~ of th · S.tu.tes yuu can. c·h ·-._ nge ·t he Coutititu.tio1t,
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can ,~on not ·.
Q.. Ob, Je:·, 3011 cau an1e1ul the Cou~ti.ttlti:uu.-1\1 I s.,iu11,ly make ·the
tS ogg·e stioo tu you _
g eutl l,l uen, ·O f con rrl\e l . .1n not · _(j OU gr-e.ssman., I
submit t'he tlnng to ] ;OU as a cit:izen~ I tbiuk it, wou.ld be to the b ...nefi't
o:f the Go,vernJueut Mnd ,.f tbe 11eoI>1·. o organize·'"om ·..t.biug or t b1s kind..
Tlae, UH'AJRJd
Sttcb an a:,·O'r~ llC,) " ootd·l }J(:I. incorppr-«1t~d undoubtedly,.
amtl liOUld go into busiuess,. and do bns1ness like any o:the.r co111om.t e
inst itn ·ion'" and I do not kno,v ·, ,,hy the pro\-ision in t.Jie Constit.utiou for
securin,g the exclI1si1:- right to inv, utor . of w·bat they m ·')l 10 \"•e nt is in
any w.ay in ,ool.H.sion ·w ith theh-- righ:t to · -e·h nquish aul; claim of a m,e re.
royalty Hpon tho arttcle t.bat 1nay be mauufc1c, u.re.d.. Yoo ,e,ould 11n ·
donbt,e dl,; do tbat u.od •1 the Con~.titntion as it i. .~ I do uot kbow bot
what yoor ulea m1gbt he pra.et1eab,l e. without .· ny cb . ng,e 1n the Con~
etitotion, the iu\ ·ntor - liuqnisbio 0 • .a ri.gbt to auytbing but .a royalty
·u pon th : piiteuted .article.
The ·, v·1TNESS"' T ba,t i , al ..b · ,vouldl practically bate.
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Tlie Ce·. ·. JR'll.lN .. That is all b.e would b~ ~.e -uuder your plan. I do not
ee ). wh,y any ch~l'n,ge ·i n t e Con .· 'titution 'is ·n ·~cessa.ry to do that..
}fr~ ·C A~L.. Because the law· is i'm1lerati_\"",e aud. ma;odator:v·, au(l i.f t.b.e
Jaw savs that. if a man chooses to d.o ~o and so ·b e ma)'", it i~ no la•w at all..
T .he Con·.:titntion ,sas~s that Co ugr,e .• . may l)HISS I ~w ·, securing the e .c)or
si,,,,e ri,gbt of p.r opert,y to e.~ery invenb1r, bllt it doe · not•· ay that Con.
gress 1.oay pass law8 securing the right or Jlroperty· to an:_:body buti· the
in,. . ~n tor.
The Cu·A.1RHA · .. Tb.e great ·r alway,s .includes the Jes,- .
Mr-. '0ALL.. J.f the. inventor . au·, to gi\"•e.. i away, o.r 1sell it, he ean do
so :no1 wit.bout anf chang-e of the Coost,ituf"on.
The CHAIRMAN, That is p,recisely what I was saying. The right to
secure ·t be ,g reater' ,e,ert~ '"nty ·1 ucludes the iigbt to ~nre the le - ~, and
t·b at r.i.,g ht_by_way o:f rr03:alty ·is no greater·aD.d .may be less thall a. rigbi·t
to the exclusil"'e use of he in·,·eution . ,
Tl1c W .I TN.E ss., The in·,.,ent,or could ass:ign the entire right to the United
Stato_; and ·r ecei¥e fro·w the Uuited S,tates, therefor a, ,c ertain ro.,.-,altJ'"..
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B.y Mr;. CALL :
Q.. Do yoo know any provision of our Go·veram · · nt by ·whic'h th~
U ·o ited ·S ta ti - •· ·m ay receiYe an1Ysuch assignment, a,s. tllat a.n d go iut.o the
patent bosiuess !-A. I do n.o t see wh · we m :y n.o t 'legislate. to 'that
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effect,.
Q.. Then we might ,go in.t o fhe grai'u-aP.lling business, or· an1y other
kind of 1.,n iness ..
By the CHA.IRMA -~,
Q.. Wbydo you neel .t ta1l_y .a nyor,g anizatio.n connec.ted with the Unit.eJ
States 1 '\ \"by could not au o~ganizatio:o be incorporated ha; iog ca,p ital
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KELATfQ,NS, BETWEEN LABOR AND CAPITA·L..
197
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to do business an:d
.
take its share -o f the profit that mi~bt result from
tile 11Snal de'\elopm:e ut of' the .-·nventions 1- A. It w,onld uot be half
as popu]ar in. tbe first place~ It ·w oald be looked upon as u great 1no .
nopoly·. It -· ould become m.ore. pow-erfnl ·tha-n the. Gol•"ernment aft-er
awhile.,. and. that is 'tb.e. reason obj,e et to i.t. I tbiuk .such an organization is as.i.w1portant a,s. our ra-1lroad i.nte·rests,, and I think 'tbat there. is
only· one 1rowe·r that sbould 'h a.n dle it1 an,d that is tbe ·u bi'ted States
Government. It wonl,d be ·i mmensely vain . ble. You ean see for . our·self our great inventions, and. 8e8 the tortuue . , the miU·ious that are ·
bei.ngqiade ·from them.. Take.the telegra-ph, onr diflE. ent iwprovrJm.· uts
on rafi:roads and _on tbe s.ewiug m~cld11e·, and_so ,on.
Q• . 0 .1.r plan i · to e~eet a d.i,st1i.bntio.n of th.at wealth a.mong th,e Jleop)·· at large. Then there ·is no :reason 1_- hy the or .antzatiou Rho 11-tl bee-om,e nndt1l5 w·e altby; th p-r ofit .· lfould go to the peor,Io.-A. If this
thing was in the bands of a :p rivate co111orati.on the .ro:t~alty ,voul,, n ~ oes~
sarily inL'TI008e; tbey wonl,d · ·n(l ·i t to 'their interest .;: no law· ·w ould bind
·hem to n1ak,e it lower. Hit wa . under the Go,~errimeut tbey eould affilNl. to do so,..
Q.~ I was only d,e sirous of developing you~ id.ea so as. to, be su-re to
eompreben.id i.t. Have yon any 0th.e r sug_
gestio·n to make !-A.. ~-.othiug
at .a ll, excepting these t ·wo.
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D,UBEAt1· OP LABOR S'.l'A~ISTICS~
ELisnA WINTER
sworn an.d examined.
B-y the CHAIRMAN:
connectiou.s T-Ans·wer~ I~ m e.m...
p1oy·ed in tbe Delawar · and Bud on C:aoal Company, ·in the auditor's,
office. I a. ass.u:·t ant aud.ito,r, an(l interes,t ed in ,a su.bject whi.c b is, be•
fore this eonimittee for h1"t·e.stiJ?3tio,n.
Q S·t ate tl c parti.c ular ma·t ter that you ·h~ 'f'e in, mind •.- ~·.. . wish to
add n•y feeble testimony i.11 favor o:f the idea, w·h.icb thiuk lnu~ alrea,•ly
been brought before t -· is i.o ·,e,s ti_g ating· oomn1ittee, of· a national bt1ttao
of labor statis ti<!.s 9 od p-r ot,e etiou to fo-reigo bnn1 i g1 a't ion." I wai,t to ~ul(l
ID.Y indor&em.e11t to much. hat bas been _said.,, ?H(l :il:o pns.~ibl}· :add
a-omethiog that ma)"' be of ·,ralt1e to that idea.
IJ 'llemonal .•· .,11erier1ce
here in the eit - in helpiug 1~e.0Jde iu ,e l1arity-:a eed and JHIDple lookiH .
for· wor', 1as. got me int~~f sted in th-e itlea of the labor cla~s being as*
id tP-id, an,d as everybody uo- o.days see-.m s, to think t'Ji · U,o;,~.~rHlueut
ought take. care of evel)thi.n.&r,, ,town to ooo -·in.g, a man's ,~ictuals, l 1-lU ppose I ha,-e, natur.aU:y fallen ·i nto tb · idea tlurt it u1ust he done · lY the.
Go-vern1ner1t" I do not see my e·1r, l1one .·•tly., auy .ofbe-r way of' getting
at tb is i nii r1natio11 t II at w·~ need t ha o as a 11 ati on~ 'T he i.nlli Bereu (~e of
States to ea.ch otber .aind t'he ,,atural srJiri of j ,e.(1l0LU-lY be ·-,,~·. u cUi :
ao,l Sta.t~s is such that ti .ey will uot give hlllHtrth1.I i,uformation · ·\"en
aoou ·1 tbeo1 ·. ll"'e~. 10:ueh le s u.bout ta ~-11 otb r,,an1.l I h.~1,-eeo1ne to pl:ad
iu beha'l f of the Nutioual Go, r1·11111ent taliing 1ap the idea of furnislti1·1g
to tb.e world 1brou,ill a 1u1tional bureau., ·i f you plea~P·, all the 1nto1nu1tion that is n .edt~-d h:t people ,·r ho ~ome :lurre to settle fn fhis ounutry.
People ,oo,m 11,e-re front Euror in a. 1.· -r~-~degrndtd · .tuf'.e. of n1iud, oftea
k.uo,.,.ing 001'b in,g· of our I"esourCf-i.sr;, antl. tu .,~nre oftieti the
ti ms of land
agen·ts, railroad ~,Jn~cn;I~ tors,, or an,:'i·body into ,vbose bantts tl1ey b;11~p-e11.
to filllt \~ · lia·ve u bnr, .au. at C'us,tle Gi.lrd.eu t'ba. ·· ntt to_p ts to 1~rotet~t
t'h _rn afte-r i·b ey g-et her~, but only to 11,artiHI ext nt. lt is ·, ~ery ic1r-tnnate that 1no·."t io1migration las ·i ts destinatio . fixed befo1:e it eoml!s
Qu.est.·"onj "\V'b at am your bns.i.ness
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.B:ELATIONS BE1TWEEN .LABOR AND CA'PlTAL.
here·,,b,u t the ·infor·mation on ·, hich they base:_ t·beir deeisii.on ~a eome~
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tmough ·t he iufl.uen.~ of 1 ··n d 18pecu.llato?1 and J>eople wbo a.re interested
in a eertain 1.ooality.. I argue 'in favor of the National GoVie·r nment furnishin,g im:p artia,lly tbrougb pob.Uoation that sball be recognized a·11
OV"@r the world as oomiD.g with tlle stamp of this Gor- ,e rnment information of everJt Sta:~e, county, .a nd t,own that may be asked for.,,and giving
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a
i't, ·t horoughly a·n d ace·o rate).y.
Q~ _ , ee that . he idea ·wl1·icb. yo·u are. a,d vooating ·b. r,e i.s the same as
tha~t in ·w hich tb,e B.r itisb Gov ~,.n·m,eDt has so largely interes.ted itself
and b,r ought to the attention of onr ,S,t at,e Departme·n t,, and. which. has
been :indorsed by t1,e B I ate Department,, and i rS real ls- an i,d ea of vecy
great importa1 ce A. Ye , sir; e,..en 'the is.l and of N:ew Z ~laud and
Canada both do this. We a.r e beh'ind the whoJ,e,world in furnis:h iug this
iofonna'tion, and..Y· ·t there- is more importan't information ·w ·. n·t 00 from.
tb:iSr country tban t.b ere ·;t of 'the world put together, and they can ge·t
less of it from th.e Governm nt of the United States.
Q.. Wbait is, the name of t·b at Eng Ii· b gentleman largely· con.nec·ted
with tbe G,o verbtnent ·. bd 1S0 _p rominent ·i o t .b e discossi.on of economic
qn . stions T- ~ George Jacob Holyoke,. as I -.call. it... He ·w as here last
~,ear ~isi tiu g· this cOllotry i0.o that •e.... press miss.ion. I saw 'that;our Pnsi •lent ·:~nd _· ooretary of St.a.te ga,""e him great e ·courage ·~,eut,. ,a ying·tbat
our (:ruvern·ment, &IS far as the. could assi st it,! would be i ·tavor ultiuttely 0 £ do,i u,g something io this li.u e. Wbile ·w e 'have ,he p '!N lnd ditttinct:.on now of comin,g· up a·t the foot of aU the uation.s. of t'b.. world,!
'i i · " 'b e -ter .late t ban ne,,.er,'"' _nd it is hi go ti:ioe,, I thi_u k:1 that the ~u bj1e et. ,.bould. receive tbe important attention wh.icb it deserves~ I ·was
:fl.r st ·interested in the subject by see·i11g how igno:rant pe-0ple ·in. these
cities,,a re, h.ondreds1a.-ud. thousands ,o f tben.1, a .. 'to, what i' best ·f or tb.eir
ow11 con<litiou. 1 found th . .tor .ign _
population do.mped into this. ci~y
)ike a congeist,e ,t ma s of' rotting i,gn.ora,noo, 'W itb lack of self;..p,r ot1e etioo,I
v.,itl1 nothing to give it excuse ·tor beiu_g bere xeeptlng that they had
to Ji,,.e a-nd they h ·· d to work,. and. iguoran:t of tbe tact that ·it.bin 100
n1il~s, of th.e city of . e,v ' Ior·k .s even ou·t ,o f te·n of f Bm could estab'Hsb
ind, pendence and. comfort in ten rears, a11,d b.e y· tlo not know it, and
oft en when you. tell it to them thes do not belie,. . _~ ~-ot1, T.h.es· think you.
~ t·;er,es.t e d in .s ome .Ian d specu Ia t.10
· ..,, or h a . e .som,e .Iot,_,. to
. s.eII , aud
a.re in,
t · e~r do not care to li..:ten to you ; bo.t I think, coming from tbe Gove·r .n•meut, with th.e ·tam.p of aotbority of Uncl,e 1Sam ou it, it would pass
tii·e-ulation.,. ,and w.ould rec _i.ve, that credit w·liicb it no,w doe ·· no·t · get..
The areat J.ack. o,,f ,sucees I tb.ond in help,i ng people in this city .and ·_·be
great soece:· s in, help1ug tbose ·.. ho wuuld ,iet ou of the L1ty on to land
e most
·as, \Vha"t ,g a . e me lirst · ·n ·i nterest in tbb1 so'l~jectw. I ,oonld
amu .ing a.ucl niost &o.r rowfu] exa111ples, of tllli ·, but have :no't_tim,e,.1.a11d. I
do not think. 10n h.a·ve to Usten. to it. Onr ,-d.u eation ·1a.c·k s, ~natnre, and
o~tr labor is ·t oo fon d of' cit) rte. That .i s ;· he first poin·t I ·v.-ould li.ke
to bring up.. llo·n el 1S}Jeu t h _re in the ,c ity in eharit3r, in my op-inio11, I •
am sorry to 1sar, only uuwufoomres paupens.m.
Q. What :bas been ,our eo11niectio,:n with ,c·b .aritable work io t 'h ia eity
and vicinity f-A. l am snrr,.\ to say it has.been :m ore uns.uooess·ful. th.an
s11ccessful.. I was chai.r.rnau of the .missionary oom1ui'ttee of the B,rooklyn .Sui d ·y School Uuion for a eoupl of Tea.rs, and( I had a good deal
to clo in iruluciu,fl'• Ir. Seth Low· to .ass:is.t m orgauizing a Brooklyi1
·1 ,urea.u uf" cbaritie
At one of those. meetings I introdtuied .a. resolu'tio11
that s.ine.e w-e nt th.·r ough the Sitate l,e:··_ islature, aud wen:t t'h1-ongh Cot g, . ·s s las,t ye.ar, tor the appo.1ntm. nt, of .- . na'lional com11ds ".iou ·•>f. 1m·1uigrati,1n, but I th.ink i't~· ent through ie such a bony that i·t w.as .oot
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
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BELATlOBS .B-ETWEBN LI.BOB
AND
] '99
CAPITAL.
,.,
properly dig~t~, al!~ I hope this ~-~ ter Oo~s w.ill b~.g ~e -~hiDJ
up and ,comb10.e it vnth a bureau of labor stattstiea a,nd ass.m ting UD.mi~
__
gration.
.Money spent in .au.sistiug·to 00110.t ry 'homes is,.n ot" bosh," as o,ur friend
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who basjust p rooeded
1
me said~
Myperso-n alexperi,e nceis right to the·
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oout,.ary of b'ia te,a.timony. Not ,only out West, 'b11"1t within 100 miles of
New York Ci' ·. is,to be.found the v,e ry·best obari."tabJ,e expe·n di.ture that
can be made,. in my opinion, ,esipeoially g,e tting children tbere when they
are old ··nough ·t o wo-rk. If you get, ,o bildreu tbere when Y,ODD.g tbe_y
are pretty· apt ro stay, ,a.nd often. through the children. you can ge·~ the
pan?uts.. I have taken great i .t erest iu the Tribune f~esb-air fnnd . I
ba,~e ]s ent out p-a.r ties this week ; one is going out u ·.·. ··t Saturda:v, and it
see the iuff.oence it llas -J. · ,some few eases-fe·w, I. am
i .· deli,g htflll
s,,rry to say, bnt ~-ood, I thiuk, wiUl oo, e as t e tbiu,g gruw.s --from tile
·influe·nee the o'b.ildre I coming back into the eity have to get ·t heir
·p areuts into tbe country·, and. in a ·few· years, · have no doubt. io tieu
~ea·rls, m~n who w,oold li'v~ and. die here and ·never hav,e euongb money
to bury tbe.m C · n .b--O into the country, and in ten ·yea·rs. own better h.om.es
than t.hey now rent, and tb e mouey they now pay io r.e.n t ·w.il'I buy t_h e,
:,llouse. If I had time I 0011l.d give the figures oo p,ro, _:e i.L All this 18
111ot kno·wn.. You woi1ld. tliinkit w.a s konwu, b·o·t it is not .. '.M:en are as.
·i gnorant aa horseso,i.tsid,e of the.smoke oftbeir own chimney and the circle in wbicb the.... Ii· e~ Theyw1llnot·roo.d.a pape·r that.does.notgi '\"ethem
th~~·ideas 'the5 have .already through edoeatioo or prej 11dioo, and it is almost
imposin'b le.to get men to look at the other side.of anything ·t 'h at they have
.acei dentall..; · fall -n .in·t o by inclina:ti.o u, prejndioo, or ea .ly educati,on.
!l1.y op,1oion ·is that ·people look to n.o,tbing bot t·he-Govermnent for im . .
partial information.. They consider the G,overomen·t i·-. oo·t a party,, is
not a IN'Jss,. and is nnt a monopolist. Almost e . eryboml.y else. nowadays
is accused o,f 'b eing 1som _thi-og,, . . itb.er a .m onopoli ·t or a oommuois.t, .:,r·
being some ·powerful ioftuenee for evil in the ooo,utry, and wha.t ·t e:._ do
recei , ..es ·n o 'k ind .a tteoti-o n ; but what OO•m es from tbe Gover.um , nt d oes
or •· · n receive the attention ,o f th-e whole civilized a'Od a good part. of
flu_"· uncivilized woTJd~ I magnify· perhit'p . ·t he importance o.f the id,ea,
but- I m1ost say I fir. Jy beli.e , e th.at if t hi~ Go,·l!.1·n.men t take·s u r• the
cause of a. •· is;tiog the foreigc im,· i_g·rau t he~ ,. protectiug bi:1u .atl er be
gets here from. him . elf and from each ot'b er, tbe.Y wiU adJ tl to tl1e ninet.:enth oontory one of the grandest thiugtr. th·is cotnit1y .h as l ~-,·- ~ done fo,r
dign.ifyio,g Jab,or. I ha :-ea v,eey great deal of iaitb 10 t'he idea,. I · · -nre
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One great adv-ant. · ge, I think, tbait ·.. ould come .f.rom this is that i
wou·l d d.isa.rm local goo1rapbica·1 JJrejnd10e... It ts. sorr-owfol and._ yet
·1 angha'b le to see ·bow one little town ,..~l4ha.te another]little t.own three
or four miles off. •. ou ·tni.g·b t -oppose ·_bat a w,.h ole State ·_. ould naturally
h. ·~e a great feeling·of prid. e i.n e1 ery part of itself; bot wh_T a little bit 0f
towu., and somet.ime a ward in .c.i ty·, 'b ould be jealous -o f i"tlt nei,g bbors
is str.ange. Tak, · th eastern dist.riut of Brookly·n.. If' anyt.bic- g .1s
started in t"b - w·e s;tert dislt riot, a.nd. if tbe people of the eastern di.stric,.~
haT"e no·t their foll 1sbwe, they are ·_ -· mad. as mil hensf, If they have
an id-e a of anytbi g goi.n g· to hurt t'be w·es-tero dis·t rict,IJ,;;-O ll will see tbe
:B :~ ol:J~n Eagle &J1,d_?th~r ·p apers go fo~ i_t an.d~ki!l it? because it _,d oes
not help tbe·m . Tb·1s. local geo_g rap,h1cal prejudice is a bug·~bear,. a
st111ubbn_g ~-b lock ·i n the way ot national progre•-·.
'!he Gov·e romeut pro·t ect tbe population that is, here uo·w fl'Om. that
\l:bi<~b .hereafter is com·i og by mea s oif' Nati.ona-l Commissiouers of' 'lEmi1
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'200
'RELATIONS Bt..T ·\ VEEN llDOB A : ·o CAPIT'. lL~
gr.-tion., and tba.t ·i s perfectly 1--1.g·b t
It. eLould .a lso protoot th.e po,pala--
tion that itS be'f-e now from ,each. ot.ber,, a.nd often. from tbemselxes.
Genuine protection fv bom.e iullu·:try· demands the exterrniuatiou o,f
aect1ou.al geogra_phical prejudice.,. and the National ,Go-verumemt. aloue
eau do this~
·
Tbe~o are tbe J>oi.nts I . ish. to ,e ularge on to the :· tent of ,~,o ur :p.a.•
tieue.e and ·m5 thne.. ·i .. ·p ersonal ,e pe1 ieuce · 'ha..,~e ,g iv·eo.. "be bill
1
·t hat we t throllgll Congres · last yeur ear1~ietl out 1r.,ar.t~.alb~ t .e. id . a
ag'ita:'ted ·111 tbe Drook lJ n T1m,es last fit'lt I took it down to a me .tin.g
of the bureau of ch 1.riti.es antl I , ·o·t ther 11 -,e tty J.a.te. J ist. a,=s i t adJou:. -ned
I ga\"e .i t to Hnn. 1,:i·1ll t\ .· !?opes. He. was very much pl.eased · ith the
id~a .a n,l ju111pcd u·p, und iutrodoced it•, but tb.ey ha,d a~jourued, and he
uid., u S ~nd it 1. p to the S· ate boa.rd of' charit" s at A]ba11)· ,vith ·my
ind.orseut,·ut, a1ul ask them to put it tbrougb the legislatllrel' mhey
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di,d put it. through.- It ~ce·m -d th -y bad the id ·- u ·p i .ah· udy at Bos.ton,.
a.t , tbe ,con gres • of cbarities. It went tb.ruugb the Stare l.egislatore fly
iog,., Inf~,. t, it weut 'throu.,g h too quick~ It tl m
~l not ge·. iu tbe p,r oper
lll.':lh
· . t·. h;, ~t
o; ,t·, ·l"·t_ Otl,1'g 1-.l ,_t t·
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11.0Fe
u·, · W38electetl to Con gr,· s ~·, prom.u~·e d n1,e ·__ arm l:v th.at he · -onld hid.orse it., and
he did. :_:_e·prese~tativ,e S . S. ,Co _: a.l'so did. 1S enator _l _:"arner ~lill. r iu.
tr-odu.ced i. · into ·tlJe Seuat .··, ·ind it 'fvent through · .IJe : on~e l ·it.b "'!OOOti
tLe same s11~d ·11t went tbrongh our S,t ate legitda ure•, ,a nd . think, in
th, ·. sa1ne \l" eek~
11
· .·... e· o· -r· .R·-epresen11a,
· -· - · 11• ·t'..1ves
~ · · a t_.
·r atl.c_
·h·:1Hgt.on,
·Q,,. n -~1t-1 1. 11.H! b·111
pass t1,,,11e· u.. ou
did 1·ou tsnY 1--;l;\ . ·. es,. 1iilr ·,· ,a:-J,Hlo1ntin t'I!•
~ com1nissiouers of immi~tioo1
~
t'ii
Bot oo·,n 1d ai H t bat it was only e.» pa.rte in its, in ff ue.11 ee, an cl I hop.-e th is
Con -,ress '\_Till con1bine, tha.t 1:vit,h ·•ir.. G oorge Jacob ·, ol,):oke':s. :i d,ea of a
bu rea.n of l~,IJor stat i .·ties and prot eeti on.
. d"ee,1unn.
· ., g h
- ¥re aniou ;it ...t:1.ffl
.,
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'VI
R o ra.] 1t f.e 1.s
·r1cans"',
~ a:r1ns Hl J,,;; ew ~n . .
gland anti the ) :f iddle Stat,e s are faU1og into the ha-n~ls of i.guor.· ·1 it thr..
eigner,s6 S;tagnn.t'io.n of prop·: ·1.ty aroutul N,ew· ·Y ork.~w'i bi1 a n1tU.118 of
.ftft.y ·mJI es, betl.ts .al.l .1.1·n a 0 ·H1:atiou +n1d belie t: y ·e ars ago 1,eo1~h, iu i"'e~t('. d
in ru l"itl 1)rope.rt y .. Ir· they Ii atl a 11 y idea of i't to . d . ay tb ~y ,l'ou 1(1 no . put,
a <l.o1h1r in it as a11 iu· ~es,tuieut. In. YoHktui,s, almotSi;t within the·corporation or this c.i t y, " be, .1 1-r. Jay G,ouhl:''s aec:retary Ii,.es, fJ"ropert:y is. t be
sa.me .H t ,·alue t ,( l tlay tba·t it was teu ,)~ears ago, because the ·r nr.il spi.:rit,
seems, to be so declining a.od p -OJl1C are getting into cities, aud ,c it1··Jif~oplt,i are: rnorc i g 11uran t geogr~.[l,ll ic~11 v than an~,r class, in ·t be. uountr}l because t:beir 1rn~.:iutht
~g au! :s.o 1u111·ow they
ta·ke iutere1st 011l1r in ·" ba.t
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•
p~n1tlic .- cal s tor,. and tlu~3"" ha,. . e I.es , pnbHe · ]liri.t , I beliete, tha.11 uul.ny
baek·wootlg farr- er,s r.bat tlo Hot , ee ,a tit111e:r once a yea.r... My·ex.periP.,Dc:a:
is that, those latt~·r peoJlle kuo,, more about,the countr;.,, geo,~raplli.c~n'lly
tba.11 the ]le-O pl,e I 11 eet b re in t e cit·, • Tbe lack of iu formatiou a1nd of
figures ~ ·11 ti s tatj 8 ti es I th i 11 k is d.epJora b le, for the :re-Jso11 tba t if t i u~y
•· g 10 t-h JHtJte t h.e:s w1· 11 not 'b e J'H!\
"' e . .1t.
"'
I. k now b~ ut t 1- .r ee
&et, HHJ; t h n11
ed i I01·8, i u N e,v· York a1ul '.· roolt 13,·n th at a re free trou1 s o.~()i•c iou. Si] 1.~V, ·
s.tnJ)id p lopl say_
,,,,, thu;; ecHtor ln1a a collar on him,'-' or i · tb - m,1.u'~ dag;.
"'Do ., ods gi ~ ets hhu credit" fo.r truth. l nfor.w atiou in the. press floes not
earr:y Wftig·h t for the reason tb.a;t,·1) · ople se n1 to tldu'k ·_ pa1Jer t'ba:t bas a ,
great h'istory or· natioua·1 reputation 18, small euongb to g t dowu and be
a n1at tor sum . n1iUionairo to wipe his i-·-~ on~ I ha\re n.o titith in tbo
pow,- _ r of tbe. 'll'3J)ers ,h . re nruusio,r an~"' iute.r e·st in the ·sobjiec·.. nud I
turn to the Go-,:·erumcn ~ b canae pnbliic spirit iu the citie,s i8., dead, anti
I know or no other re:sonn~..
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Q., ,,~hat ,couhl pco1il.e clo for a living ou the plaee,s 'to which )~·on 11;,v&
referred, or ,~·i thin a ra.d i.us of fifty rn ii.cs of' th . ci't3 t - · ~ . p us l~u- aa
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
201
RE,LATIONS BETWEEN LABOR AN.D, ,C J.PIT.A L~
:llaini:'i, if yon
o.d Jnst. Suod/__ y's Tribnne,, yon will find w·h ere a maa
representin g a b,ig fir.m on Broad.Wal~ put op one bund:red or- two bnn~
1
.
box: a.: nt it to llaine, . nd those back.w ood .. 'farme·rs"
wives. there sew· at. ui~ht and ·Can. beat.the people who wurk here in teue,.
meurt house ... They have less reot to pay, on.d all t- e: expense is the
freight, wbieh would not. be 25 cent· oo a 1snlt ,of cloth ·s.. I saw "i 1ha"t
confirmed by one member of the con1m,itt:ee who 'h as,'beeu down east and
came bac ·. and reported tba . the peol,'tl.e who lived i.u th.e·cou.utr~v,,those
died suJJS
10. a
1
wl10,·· we·re labore~, a.nd mecllani,cs, w·ere iu J11s op·:"oto11. better otr tbau
peop1.e .1 i ving right here i11 t · e ui.ty. 1.: hi coul d be .a1 pH:: d to ·t he ~ ub
urbs of ·.. _e·w York..
Q. What is. the ·r eason tbat ·-:t1rse available la.nds are not appropriated
ae. the homes. of mecba,ni:es. and la.horerst-A. 1. ,11orauoe .a bd S.'IUJi.idity 7
p:rejudioe .a.ud. lazioess., I am sorry to Sal, toalargue.xtent.. .· : m~th·ans
do n.o t . eem to ·,,ra,n ·t to work a fttrm~ The.y tal . tbout the dignity of
h.oman labo,r, and tb~y· seem. to think that ·10 wo1 k wb re you see the
most, bean.tifnl handiwork of 'UJatn·r e is d,e grading; but · 01king in .a
dirty city,. wl1@re tbere is ootbiog but artifieial 'life :and w·b ere the ·eo:1
forts of hom .• are Hot·bi.o,g equal to wltat 'they are i.n the ~un · ry, that is
digoitJr _nd t-lu,t is, the J>er.feetiou of human exi'steoe:·. ·.. : sa~r tbateonu!s
from iig norauce,, and. '[)eoJ,Ie ,,ill :n ot lb,teo to tbe cl,e rgy or to tue t•r~ss,.
and. I am in bo1>es be Go,1. ·ernH1ent ea.n lHJond info1.1oatio · i11to fb ~·mit
Home lite in cities ,does uot torn out g'l•eat m n~ ·Our gr . at ,e dito~.
mini~1,erit4, an,'I fina0ic1ers come front the. ba.ck,voods; even .J ar Gould
cam,e from Del· war ,Cor.n1t:r,. ,-ew ··ork Cit)" raise s n othiu,g bot gio.•mi'II
etatesuien, dudes, an,d otber· cri1m .i nr. ls.. I belie,. .,e. in a ],o \"e of nature.
T.he Br1.tish and Germans, eultivat.i.ng a love of nat:u e among us,, ar .· _oo_r
princ1.pnl retsnu1~ee. I ·w onld. rll!tber lif~~t foreia;niers 11.a.ve ou.r laud.,, 1f
A.merica;ns will not ,a.k ,e it For· t.wo IJnud, d .J ars tbe G rmau Go,· ..
eTnmen t , Juts take I up the cultivation of its tot~:sts. V. e do no,t kuo·,v
h.o-w man·,~ or bow mnc!b are _ of tr · ··s w·e 'have~ T 'be1~ is not o- e 1nan in,
a thon~and who can t,eU oue,tree.from a·n otb. I'",, w·hereas. in German.~ the
lo,v e of naito.re i so r:es.p eeted bat t'he:v would not <;.es: r.oy a tree u.n.y
more th.an t,hev ,vould destroy .. ou.r · ouse. Tb.e peo1)le th· re ba\"'e IJad
ingra.inem1 into th . m · love of na · u.re.. I am a good sti:tr Dutch Reformed
deacon, but I beliel'"e the Jove of ·n ature is the bes t religiou v. . can h:1ia
in this conntry for the greate . t unmber
beli,;1,ve it. ougbt never to beseparated fforu t11c c·b.oreb, antl. onr education. ou.g ht to have nature io
i.t as ·i ts 'f'tus fouLtlation teaching., It is being ta.ken Hll', I a· glad to
-.v, by the kinf'l e·r garteu, and should.ba,,.e a]I ·t be impo1·tauce it dese1 \~:·:4• .
The native .· merieaH imitate fo1 .dgu life at London and P ·~, is, but
not 'tbe c.ooutrJ life of Eur . 1,1e, whi ch i , the only part. worth '"·m1tatiog...
Assisted iu1.migratioo by '•. tate and National Gover·nment, it ·will be
important. to onderta ke, not only on account of disrr .·i• g llreju.dice, btl't
I am 1sa.ngui•oe that we a.r e as a n · tioo to be fh ~ great inter.11;,,ti,ou3I
factor iu briu,gi 11g about i ute :Oatioaial r .1>ul)lica1li:s1n and the ~om.in g tederation. of ·m an aucl pa.r1ia.1nen·t o.f the world;. a-ud ,1 . our Pres.i d nt G~rfield bad Ii v~d I b Ii _:\ "@ that id.e a woo1d.ha,rD had au i1n petus. that wu11l(I
by this time b· V'tl been ackoo,\lrledged aod recagnizoo b ·t he ,e flnntry ,( t
large. I am afrai d we los.t ·iu his death ,years. o.f de-relop.ment of' t.J·at
idea.
The G·o¥ernu1ent should fiorm .a u.ationul bureau or immi1:trra.tiou autl
labor st.ati:sti,es,. .'P"i\"i 11g in11Ja;rtiul. statistics. of .·'f,ecy" State, couuty, aud.
town when ask..~tl for,, to be '"''°rk:etl out by makiug continued rc1>01·ts ..
Now, sonleof the States 1nake repmts to tbe·msel,T,es. Tbe Gove.r o · ent~
I su1),p ose, eo:o]d . stabbsb an iote~tate a-g e·~cy. . ha·v e no d.o ubt the
postma.sters 'have not en.ongh. to do som.et,imes to keep the·m awake..
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,Qio····2·
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RELATIONS .B.E TWEEN LABO.R ABD ,C APITAL,
_1
'T ey could ta~e full charge nd ..ery likely furnish. all the information
at no expense to1the country at1 larg-e e.xcept fo·r postage.1st.amps an1d
w·h ite paper. O.anada aud even New· Zealand, as I ·have said, have
gou abe _dof us ia t is idea, bu·t theeomin1g of_George Jacob Holyoke
to this coaotry,, backed 1p with t:500 from Mr.. Gladstoue, the expre .
ion of our ·reidden·t and State Depar;tment, the man,y evid,e nces we
.
- peo.p,I. ,e' min
• ds,
ua·,. .e h"""""
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t h"'J1S comm ..'t_t e _·_. 1Sb--ow 'b
it a t 'be 1"'d· ea JS 10.
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.aod it will be :m ade a,tracti, ,e I hope a·t tbe next, . ion of Coogres ""
Q P erbaps you a:re· aware that Mris., Elizabe·t h Thompson ha ·, taken
..con .iderabl,e interest in the ·wa _-· of -b e .· romotion of -bis same.o~jiootof
._curing· . tati tics by national ·i ndors ment, to be di tribn d throughout
tbi8 ,coo11try and Europe a,] .. o.-A. She h _ done g ndly..
Q.. I ha·ve 'the im·p ression,, bowever, ·t hat y,o u may ha~ e be. u. the
•Ori, .-lnator 0f the idea. A, P,e rhapslmay be.1 ade out a liarou that,,
but ut1til I am I am going to c1 •.im 1b · t I am the in,.,eotor of the idea.
Genuine proteeti,o n to bome industry demands. tlie tl termiBa1iou. of'
sectional geographicail pre:judie;e•, and- tbe · ,atiooal Governm.e nt alone
,ean do thi -; not, o:o ly t.bat, bot $ystematicaJl,y cul ivate a national. love
-of the _·hole 0 .1, mankind ..
..11, 1n your own. min d. ·th e ·m,et ...,.,.1 "1
'"' 'h_·. t 'b__•1.s
Q . H~_ave ,y ou ,e] ·'b··.o at_, ut
0 w:b 1c
ioform,a tion 1e honld be collected and distrib11ted !' -A. . ·o, sir; I ·h ave
no:t gi'ven. it that a.tt-e·ntion yet. I am gat'he·r iog 1nfo.rmatioo now conti -~Iy. I hav·e little ,tiuie from my · bu ·iness..
do not allow :m y
-famil.y to sullfer, a.o d therefore this thing goe on ry slowly. I have
had to tinker at it as.I get an opportunity, but · hope to ,g t.it in .hape
to lav hefor-e our peop,I e iu ·t be ,c onntry·.. I am interested now in. ge ting
tben1 to , tartlit _l,e .r o~ l im.p ro,v· men ideas. The St. te o.f ,Conn ·et.ieut
.J:1.a· 'h ad i't goi . g for years.
ant people to be aroused to tbe impe,r tanee ,of ,d ignif, in,g countey life and makion: it w·h at it ought to be, t ,he
gr-c1udestiustead of'as n.o · 'the most ignorautp •rtof Ame.r iean i.nteoost.
Peo11le are le vin,g ·the country and comi11g into ,be ·c iti·., ., wbere · hey
:are not - a ted, ,aod land is ]ring 1dle tha . eould sup.port •~- popnlation
-0f a thou ·aud where th · re are now only a, hundre,l, or · -en ten. They
growl heca,ose there is not ,enough to ,d,o he:rii ·, wbere ·t hey a -_n.o t wanted,
·wl1en 'there is. ,enoug·h to make them rich if' they would go w·h ··r e they
are wanted If the <¼overument cannot kindle this 11ub1ic interest I
-do not s e what iu ·t he _. orld ·tltere :is for us ·t o do, hRt to allow those.
bi.g '' mo ·opoli,e s " w·e talk about to take all the land., because ten yean
a.go · berew»s not one f: •· rm of a tbousa d. acre , where 'th.e re are·
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-ni,po e, a doze• o,r · hundred Tber,e. are farm. of ·t 01t aoda of acrea
ithi'n a h.u udred mil - of New· York.. Mr-.J ohn Roach has a.b:i g 'farm;
llr. Bordeu, in U]ster County, has a bi.g farm of a thousand oores.. M,en
buy lar. ·_· farm be.cause th.ey ro- · - lose.; ·t here is nobody to wor - them
and the someti•e , hav,e.to take them; they cannot unload ..
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Q What is your emp,l o mentT-A - OoaJ. We have. had the same
inen. We cannot ge·t; one. Toi hman in a doze·n to
pa-l · tor a house atter be buys, it; h ·.- _will wol'k on i't ·~elve, tw,e nty yeara.
b c:-tn , tbe.y. do not, eem to ear•e t.o own ~ li'ttle J)la - that, tbey· can.
iar1·· ~ 'T .h . y· would ratber p _, some man rents, so ~1 'b at he can get on
"trou,ble am1ong ou·r
th .: ~r bac,k , and the oor -·. r grocer and ·v erybody they ·m eet ean get O~!
th.eh." back: .a od ride them an l get two. prices for· eTerything tbey sell
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them.. T e
bu throw away money no , ouly in uaneeessary pleas..
nres b t un.nooes · _rv ,expenses,, which would., 1f sav·efl., give: every maa
-of them a home in a few years.
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
208
B 'E LATIO'NS BETWE,EN' :L ABOR AND OAP'l :TAL.
AKTBBA,O ITE CO .AT, pp,,O DUCTION.•
By ·t he. 0BAIBMAN:
11. You are conueeted wi·t ll tb,e ooal business to some ,e xtentt~A. I
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Q.. How largie a bnsiness do they· ,d o in the. ,coal mi ing 'I -A.. 'T hey
ilru-l ooo
· -.. - ton,ga ia.. y~,
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C'a':.
Q.. Where is it sold principally 'f -A. All over the cuunl:rJ,", from Maine
tn Sa 1ot flllis.
Q. .·· hat, ,coal CO•lnpan.i es, are. there that ,do a l ,e ry l ge business in
b line of S'D pplying fnel 1-A. ~ .h ere .a m· aboot seven o,r ei. ht o.f the m
that IJrobabl,y control the ,a nthraclte business.. T.h e Philadelpbia and
Re:ad:i'11g oont,rols 53 per e~·o t. of all the .· 11.t hraeite bu. 10.ess . Q. What proportion. ,d oes your· company oontrolt-A., We, mine
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a,ouo,ooo out of 30,ooo,ooo,,,a boot one~tentb1
·
·O. What ,o t.ber com_p anie , ·ha.ye, larg,e iuteres.t;s 1-A. There. :b 'the,
Delaware·, Lackaiwauua.and Western.
Q. ·-_ ow ·mo.eh doe -,. it cootrol·t- A. / .bou.t the same as ,oors; a li. tie
ahead of us, not .much~
Q:.. What, are tbe ntbe·rs,, and what is, the peroon~~, oif tbe entire
.i'1!101 ou· bt '1t h at enl.r-:.,h OD ~ b
o-r ~A·n tro,Jie, ,_:' 1· Jil 'li•a n, o··,n l-y·'' a- ppro·'1'1-'f flJ the·'
fig11,res.. They are published ev,e ry week i.n tbe trade journal:s.. The
PenHs~ Jvania Uoal Oompany is a 1:imaHer oompa.n y ,, · , a- iis the "Plt1ts ..
ton coal," as it is, call,ed. The largest, as I said, is the Phi.l adelphia .a nd
Bea•limg11 . _, 'e t oom,e the b1gb companies; th.en comes, our eomp61ly
,a nti tr.b e DeJa1ware, Lack wan'Da- and ·w e .tern, and ·t he. Pitt -ton ,oom111n1 y, then swal:t operators.,
- Q.. Where 'i.s the cb'iet point ,o f d1strib,n tion t Tbis ,c ity, or does, it go,
direct fron1. th,e mines to those portions of the country wbere it is osed'I ~
A . It scatters no,w to all points.
Q, Scatters from the ·m ines themselv:e s t A. Yes,, ,!dr,; in all direc ..
tious,. north, south, east, and ,west.
,Q·;· D, 0 T."OU Dal" Jvo
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farther.
Q. How· far·t-A. I t i'Dk we have sent a 1,o t to tbe Northern Paoifte..
Q. Is this •coal all. mi ed in, Pennsylvania,f;_A.. Yes., sir.
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CONDITIO,N OP ,COAL MINES.
Q. You ,m ost know., 'then, t"erJ ·mu.eh i11 'r egard to t1h e actual condition
of the ,c oal wining ·p opulation.-.. · • .I think I do. I audit every, b,iJI the
oon1pan._y pa;ys" I know wb -t the me·n get, but that, of conneis private
bu-in@s ., a.nd d,o not ·. oppose the· compaJiy would be obliged to me if
I a .. ·e it.
·Q, Tb · rat.~s. of wag,es. ·pa.id, to miners is not pri·vate bu iness~ That
i:s the imnied iat-e m - t:ter w _·. are inT"f,&tlgati'n:g.-A. I sh.onld he:d.t ate to,
give a:n:yt,IJiu(I" cou11ected with the. ·worik:-i'ng of the compauy wltboo,t
tb ir, con, · -u t, ,~"-cep't in g -neral t,e rm,s-, as i't is now known in p,r int.
,Q. I ,do nu·: ask for a'Dy· secret wor.k ing of ·the com.pan,~, bu.t I ·want
to know w:bat }Jj icel' rtri.·· gen _·ra.11y paid to 'the a1·i uers for the working
of ,coal miae . -A. That iR publi.c information. The m,en avera(J'e from
70 ,c ~11ts op to $112'5, miniug coa. 'T hat is w·h at t'be. ·m iuer gets.
By .M r~ 0AL1L ·:
Q.. s that per day t -.A. ; o, per ton. ,o ne miner gene.rall_y hires two
01 . n under, hiin; one boss an,d, two assistants.
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204
BE,L ,A T.IONS, BETWEEN LA.BOB AND, CAPITAL.
Q, How· many tons. •C_n he 1'm1oe in a d.ay !-A. sup,:pose · ome ,o f
tbern mine ;wo tons a day per mau,, good handy wor, in,g men. ,I t depends on the coal; it depen,d" , on th.e ·t'•eios and t 'be.situation for. its,1•rep
arcition. Some ·veins are wo,rkt!d, un<J.· i" grea,t difficulty, and to othem
they· can · . plf machinery that eannot be applied, ,in. oth•. r places.
Hy the UHA1RnfA_ :
Q. Do you know th.e Dll mber of n1in ..rs ·. mp'lo,y d in w·o,r · ing the
anthracite eoal ·1niues. of P ·n n,st ],rani ·. 'I -A. I do ·ot Our· eon111any·
mus·t emp]oy, I ,·. 11ppose, · wo or thl' e thoosaud, an<l as ,ve n1io · one~t ,nth
oif the ,coa1,, I , uppo ·e ~1't~ a rough ,g oe . · there mu t be thirty or forty
1
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.
·
Q~ Hn,.,,e · ou, isited 'the mine: yuurselft-A. Yes, s1 +
Q. · ha.t 1s the actual r•hr~,ieaJ cou J1:· ion of J i! • 1nen w· o wnr .. ia
the1n t 1: ow well nr . ti y cloth d. a1ul how ,veH arie t:hey feel, a.Del how
tl100.s a
well Dr·0 th .. y c~bPlt ~retl, bo,, HlSn)~ boors do they wo1··k, a.ud 80 ont
Gil e us so1n , ·,~ It..a of ·h ; ir real . tate. .A . It clepends on ·tbe rac ~·~ Tbe
w~lsh 'lHin .· ~, 1 thi.u k, are 'llni,;er r ,n .- pros,ii •·~ou ; 'in fhct I t ,i,nl,t
t'lu~~r ovrn huuseSi. In tracin,g · the real ,e . t t.e ~eeords l find tl1~v g, 11er-•
ally· pa) for . ~ oir .h ouses j the ' are not ·t or -cl,osecl aiul takeu buck;, b 1t
amon'." so1n . of fl1e ot er eJa · :, esp cian amoug th lri b, th e1 are
not o fortunate in. pos . P1ss.i n a: tbe1r botl' e ., and 1.b:e hottsfs th a are·
tak,f'!n. b•1ck I notice g,eneraU3,. are in Iris'b IJ'A.mes, though I <lo not think
Wll ha\·e an" 'troubl,e with. 0 11r Iris.b workin:o-men. . think tbeJ are
go-od, steady 1n D,, a11(l I think w · ba"V as good a e'las;s, of ·workiug101eo
as tbere an~ in · be oouutry; bnt I 'Dotiee iro10 th · reco.1ds, that , he rish
ar: not a 1.hrif s in ownin° 'boo e as oth _r race..
fi.0:tl i.t 'b y the
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,
Q. uutl .· ~tooil you f.o say yon bad been on ·t he, ground among them
pergonalls ~·• Yes, 1Sir
·
Q., , ow about tbc· scb.ooling of tb -ir ch11t1r, .n. ·f'- A. 'T he cb'ildret1 all
go to ,_ebool; a number of tbe1n 'Work in the 1.nine , , bu· 11ot un der tw l_i.e
,0rfhur.tee11Jet1rsof ·'.lge .. · think. .- g-reat ma.n~f of th .· •· ;e mi nen1plo their
c.h Hdr II there pickiuw coal ancl I.lrepa. .h1g it for ,uark.et · but I thiuk,,
as a rn1e,, tlt.e,y all go, to 8,cl1ool nQw.
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Q. Y,ou do no , kno·w· to hat, ext('in·t , ,_ 1 , • ·o,, tf r.
Q.. ·, 1ul ·, ~011 do no·t know bow . ·.en tlut a e a<·tu.ally cln ate<l ''- A~,
I do not.
.',, 10 tie ar, ,~ ~ry int ]li~nt,, goo<l sob ~r c,itizens. I
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apeuk of onr mi:u :r s.
~r,ea-k of tl1e. chance t.h - cb1ltlre1 a-re gettiu.g in the
Q.
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of edo:-
~"ltiou.--t\, I onli· k110·~ t b y go to . choot
Q. Do . ·n1all chiltlren ,vork in the miues, to any· larir extent I- A ..
T'bt~y v.·ork outside tbe n1ines in pre,p.ari11g coal.. T'.bey d.o oot do any
nu.1,nual '\\"Ork in n1iuiug coal.
Q. ·t 011.. aitl that ·_miner ha., ou.e or two working under· him t-.A.
'\\"" ~ ll aY th · m ,i b. t , a)".. We 11ay oo man .a ud be di viiles with t o,, . ho
wo1.k uuder l1i1n,
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Q. J.hu~s lie dil.h]e . qni1.lly with the·m ~ ·. I suppose ,o~
Q. llu't Yon ba,. : no rr1e,. ns, o,f k'nowin"T'- .A . -o.
k ow it is the
~nn~ ,,·~1t\: ,vi'th our
e ·h awk, Jl sbo1 elElt .. I 1lay all tbe m n there.
Tlic bo,·~),·>-rs,nr,e Jlaid io gaug of three., I have soou th. . m g,o to lagerb · t r s 1·1oon . untl tli \T· d•e I he.: mo:ne·, ,
Q. 'r,) wt1a't .~xt ·11 ·, i8 tl1ere a dispos:it1on or i.s it a ·ma,t t ·r of fact tha.t
t'hei · arnings are expe·Dtled iu the way you "·p eak of, ·. n10:kittg anll
dri1 _f.i·,1g f'-A. Id,, not, t.bink to any Jar« _e . tent I rlo not ·. no-w·whn-t
fbP~ •1( ► spend th . ir m,oo ·y for, but tile id.e a that so mnch mon,ey is .pent
in ·w his, :-) I think i5 ~, ·m1 ta eu i dea.
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· .d.. l ou aw t·'I..
Q~ Y_ on
u --m- ,g· n,
eqnal1yi I d·id not k.no·w 'b ut that
T:b ey pay fi.ve ,o ont for a glass, of
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- .~ou ·m ~ nt to im:pl., _umethin,g .-A.
beer, I snp,l)O$e, b·n t they are ,sobe·r
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Q. You do no me-an to ,con -. e; .· the imp:ression ·t ha't tlt,ere is. anJ general \va ·t e. o-f tb ·._ ir -r·ag ·s ywbatyooba-·- esai.d !
. ·-.- o:' to anr·ab=nom1al ext. nt-, because I. l,now our people would n.o t hire t·bcrn unless
the! wer 1ndn ·· .rious, temperate me·n . TheJ , :o t .ere more for eou veo.~
i.e-uee.. The money is paid in lar_ge amounts and tb · go to the beer
saloon _11eeau:se the beer saloou p,roprieto,r wi.11 cb.a nge it for' tlle.m, and
th~~ 'n•·UI g t s gla . ot· beer wh n. it ·i -·_ d:ivid.e d.
·
Q How eont1n:nous]3" d·o ring th.e year d.o the min.ers wo k t I • p
poe . 1~-o u make ome reg11latioo in reg.a rd to the ou-tp·n:t from year· to
yea .-.A~ It is ,p ractiea IS' oootrolled by an :i maginary board oif control,
.a .;··.' -· e are -orki.nn· pretty
gnl · · :J.rin 01ir1nine -., I do ·n ot know - hai
tim,e is. Jo,s t,, but I do not believ,e the iners lose auy m.o re time than car•
-penters or labor,e rs ge ,e,raJ.ly~
Q. Eac'b comil'ao··- u11d,_. rstan.d _ 'the amount it JS, to mine ,and pat 011
t-he. n1a.rk, t e-acb , ea.r t-A Ye , sir~
Q. It is determined. on. "l:wforebamd b ·v th:i ._board of control and a~
po.r tion d amoni_g fb@m -Aii Y , sir; it is ·n ot a,.· ed., iron-clad thing,
b1rt it is-understood a·n d. agr< . d.
·
Q . Under ,t ood in an bono1·.ar1~·w.o y t. . . . . . _-- . Yes,, s · ·; there .is ·n o penalty and no attem1~t t biocl.
Q- Wba1 is th · object of tha ··_ ·i mitation upon the output 'I' · ·.• h,y ·is
itT~ ... To pre,;r ent o eql,r odoction Coal is a t'b ing that canuot ·oo
,e x1,orted ·, ery \lrell.. Ir· thP- market is ove· stocked · here :i nothing to
<Jo bnt to br I .- he I a:rli: -;t o,r limit p,roduct!on.
Q. J)o 3 o-u mean th t t.ber .· is dang -_·r of a la1:ge·r oa· .p ut th.an. can be
f!uu~ u.n1 . d t-A.,, .·· ·s, ·i r; t;rea ; dang r~
Q. Then there i no difficulty iu OJJ ra ·ing the m,i nes to tb e e,xteD't 0:f
ge tJ:ug out av ry IHDC~ larg .r am1ount of coal tb· D .be country e.'\n
burn !-A.. _· nidou·b t~l3· tb y conlll incl'e ·se their output; mines are
b -iu.g ope·netJ. all th t·i m,e.. ·
Q. If that 11'a . done would tb,e result be tbat cool would 'be more
generally di ·t ribot~d and bur· t tba·n 'i't i n.ow, do you thi.nkt-A., I ,do
not see ·wf11-. it ·~h.onl.d be.. · . e have .sold ore co,al thi· Jl'ear· at ll'i:=;rher
·· priee . People 'h-· v·e :-·t o ha e coal; they have to burn abou. , so muck.
lf the tariff.shuts up manofacto~rsyoo ·m i.ght gil"e then1 c~ll for-not.bing
an.d th fiv· W'Onld not take it. Cheap coal ·would ·m uke more mauufac.tur..
i11g to, som. e- teot, but I do not imagine the x·11eu e of coal i suc1l a
JarO'e item in manufa.cturmg _-- ~xct·pt in iron.. Tbere undoubt dl9 ·wonld
be a dHferen ·- , but I gu,ess , · .· pl,e, mu· t havo abou·t 1S O mt1eb coal.
Q.. If . 'b.e p1":ice ·w: . reduced do you. ·t hi:n k it ,voulJ. ·b e dist .ibuted
o·ver a-Ia·r- er extent o,f ter itory ,-A.. Y,e ,; further est ooiewhat
Q. ~ nd Dort.band east :._._ - u ·n donbtedl ..
,Q. Are he miues o,f P _nnsylva.nia controlled b_y the" comp11ni,es
th.-_ 5ou speak of-those w·Weh .h ave · o·t a ye·t been de1"e·101_ ii as well
.a ·_those which ba't',e bee 01-A,. Not, e'Dtir _ly; a. great uany of them ,a,00
leased from. iudi\i.d·u al owners. Oompani.e·B I.e ase ·t hem a,.n d , a_
y them
royalty or boy them ri.gbt out.
·Q.. So that wb.a t _·· v ·:r m1oin,n: can be done is really ,c ontroll,e d b_);- 'th se
eou1paini · s, or most of i·t '-A _.t o. 'Tb· re~ re indi, idual o,p ·rotors who
.m iu itbei.r owo. oo· l and Jla.y their freight and seU it in t.he m.arketil In
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Triuil:r Bod1d i.n g, 111 Broad a&, you w·il.J find Jots of them,, m u who
are 110,t 110d ·r a·u·· obligation to: n,y company.
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·Q.. Who own coal udne · and work them themsel v·e s ! -.· ·. Yes, sir;
·
bn:t i.t is not a large part of the tonnage
Q. .s there any :relatio:o b · tween the coal uompan.i. ·. sand. the railr,o ada
"in re~a;rd to the :m att ,'. _ ott a,n ·p ortation '1 -.A I suppo e, there is.
,Q The coal oo·m·paui, ·s a~c somew·.b at uud.er the-control of the transportatio n ".· .- p n.ie·s , I uppo.se --A"' I do not k.now ·l:IJ.ether· it is that
w.ay or th~ rev,erse, wb .tl1er· th.- ,coal coJBpan:ies control the traBsportatiou or tran~po rtatioo controls the coal ,c,om·pani.es. I ra·t her think the
ooa.l co.mpan:ies are th.e masters,of·th,e si·. (1at1on and oo,n trol tra·o ·port.a-,.
tiou.
cao· : tl1eJ:- have ·r ailroad of their own. We
Q Bow is tba. 'I -A.
own 700 ·m il ·S o.f ~oad.
Q~ Have an_y of t'b ---._-. com11ani,r . a lin . · reaohin g · '° N -·w York C·i t : ,,
for ins.tanoe ,_ ··..• · es·; sir; the Readiug JJ.as. Our compan_y ha,~- its
caua] to· R ,u clont and it ... railroad. to Albauy ; he-o. it ba-S its ftti:.:b t ,
oon· racts wifh oth ·.·r railr,oa-ds1
Q. O·w ning the mines a111d 01 ni·n g the 'h ig:hwa: s that Jead to tb m., ,o f
co rse what, yon. said i'n tbe fir,s t 1•Iaee ht ap1larent- that tb.ey must coHt.rol the coal m.arket bo~ll in output _nd t.ra.osportatiou. - A. The coal
ma:rket cou]d be brok,e n in thirty da:, s, boYt,., .,,,,e·1, by · n · party. o-f c.apltalists w.bo wanted to do it ·. · 011 could no more stop it thau :voo oould
stop th sun fro,m rising to~m,o rro _· morniug .
Q . Ex1,·tai.n ·bow· tha,t can he do _e b.v ahy ca.p italist who cb.ooses, to
do it..- · ·. Ir. Ja~ . Gould cooId do it in tbirti dayR. He 00 Id. . -reek
the ,~ al market, bea.r the ·-t.ock, ., and. sa-c.rifice ·m illions of do.l iar . ,, it" he
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Q . How eou.ld. he d.o it t-..1f .. Be could shove the coal ri.g 'h t iut,o
m.ar·k et by· the .mil1ion tons.
Q., Does h own coal . -A . ..c o .;, but if he c·hose to go into th.e· c,o al
bn ·iness be coold do .·t ..
Q., .I f he was, d.i sposed to go into- t.he coal bn.siaess in op_posit1ou to
f;· lt U.ke tioin,g
th· e -~.i sting· oom.-painies !-- A . ... .,e s; or a.n:vbod yelse..
Q. _ow could be get the: eoa.l f- A. Be eou.ld bllj' out the _toe
~
of
the, compa-nie - and op n all tb.,e mines he c-ould Andi
Q. There probabl y ·would not be m·u.eh. i.n,cl.i'.nation. to do i.t o·n the partr
of any eapitalist,. 'for in destr-oy ing others he. w,oal.d destro ·. 'h im· .·_ If,
. onld he not ·. -A. ,o h, they are burnt al.ways in tkese fi..g h.1:8. t is ar
kind •O,f insani', y fo·r railroad s to be fi · ·hti.ng each other. I nev·e r ,coo.Id
underst and my · elf wb,y ·t hey -do 1t.. It 1s, ne,-ert'heless, true ·t hat, they
seem to mike :m.on,ey on ·. ·a n street if ·t hey ,d o n.o t maike ilt oat of the
oom:p a. ie ; th.ere are ,:, ways that are ,d ark :an.d tricks, that, &M _ ·n"
there~
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Q. In W · _ll. s,t -Peet .---A . Yes, sir; the coal compan ies hav,e. ·t o s..ta·o d
it aa mu.ch a• other·people.
Q. The true th eor.y· is to 'k eep out, of it, ·i s lt not !-A Undoubtedly.·.
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By Mr. PuGH:
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Q . Yon say the m'inem are paid from 60. ~nts to I .J.25 a.ton
o r oompany ~m '1'0 cents~ 1 1126. ~o; it is m.o rethan. that, beeaose
o~
tli.e y a:l'e p ·· id also for preparin g the ,coal and extras in o,p ening u·p head . .
ways and extra work. I should judg,e tb.e average would be ·v er).,. nearly
a dollar a to,n. I should. roughly aa.y th tis ·w'b at the min.e r gets him1
~!
,~A.
.
Q.. What pro:porti.on of the miners torn out two,tons a day !-A. I do
notknow.
Qi ·.·· hat is your best estimate 1--A. Prom the w~y tbey am pai,tl by
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.B ,t ?LATIONS B.E TWEEN' LA.BOB ,A ND CAPITAL..
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the,·m!tntb., I shoold tbiak mos,t of th,e m did; that ..· onld be too,a inooth,
workin,g foll time
Q.. )lostofthe:o;at rnon:ttwotonsaday!-A.. Isbouldfh~nk:so; that·
·.. ould give them 160 a month on full time. Some of them mak.e much
more ; ·. 'Om.e of hem •ak.e a t .l 00 a mouth, but they ~ re smart men,.aud
the coal i . ver:y fa1 orably p,laood~
- ·th··e mark' .et va'Iue per ·to· :o. o,f-i, :an.tt..
·t ·1~ s
· ·•· at.1s
·oraei'"te
.··· eoaI w·1..
,ue·~.·. 1·:.
Q. Wh
mioed. a·t thi · t1.me,t-A. I do not ki;,ow; I should not f~e·l at libert~y to
go into that, as my information migbt not be very· r,eliable.,
Q. Wh.' t ia your· best information as fo,·the p·~.. eot market, alue 1>er
·t on of .a nthracite coal wb .-re it 'is mined,~ · I s·b onld tb.i u'k fro,m ·2 ,o
12.50 a ton. The tran •·. portation bringerit u·p to aboot.83.50 or , 4 at t ·ide
· ater. w ·b en freights .· ··. lowe·r it co .ts,·1·.·.. s.. .· . s ·t be price of ,oo -J ri "es
th •·~co .t ·cales · p. Coal oo ·t , le · . a·t one ti,m l than a·t ano·t her..
Q. What otker items of cost are there in a ton o,f coal ·m ade ready
for market except the. labor t~A.. It nas. to be p r . pared alld separated
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Q.. · ou ,s . y it i ·· orth fi~()'m •2 to 121160 a ton · . h,e re it,is mined.. ·· ow,
1 bat other items of 00 . t, enter into a ton of coal where, it is mined be ..
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·ide . the Jabort-A. There is the it.em. o:f' cleaning 1·t , p'ick1.H1g ou·t fbe
SJate
Q. hat is part of the labor, i it not 1 Yon sa.v ·the:y g,e t a d,ollar .a
ton for all thatwor'k , on -n average~ .. Yes,sir; for mini'n g i, bu not
for preparing it.
Q. Nuw,, outside ot t , e la'b o:r 1t .m, ,he dollar a ton ! '- A The· tr.~tn portation..
Q.• Wi.'t'h o·u t re .•. 11d to tran .portatio ·, what ,other items of eost. in a
ton of' ooal ·wh . re it i . mined are there, 'leaving out ·t he east of labor·! A.. The.re i · royalt where th.. y lease the .mines. upon a ~oyalt5 of some~
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ti'm,e ,, half •·. · dollar a ou,
Q. As much a ,. half a dollar a ton t-A. .Sometim ·· •
Q.. Tbe ·m arket · '.. lu,e of 'that ,o oal wb.e re it 'J;s m·i ned yon ,'& .· is from
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12 to . · 2Ji0, .and · h ·. 3 pay·half a dollar a ton ro .alt3 1-A. I do not know
th.a ; my ."nformaition is reliabl.e, bu.t, my impre . sion i , tba·t 812.50 would
cover the. e.· . p ·.· u·... ·. of getting a tou of coal on the ear.,
Q. It is worth that at the depot, w·h e~ it is .hipped t-A!! Y•e s, sir; I
· !h ould think .2'..50. At ·t he farthe: t 13 would cover :i 1. roJ·aJty aud
e . e.r ything..
·Q . Wb:a t pro:porti,o n of tha · t2·. 5.o a ton is ,c lea'r profit to the man . ho
sell . and (_)WDS the. coal; wlJr '. t a.mount of .p,rofi·t per ton, in your belt
i.udgment f- ., Po .·,. ib~y 25 per eent.
The commiit tee a.dj10U
until 10 o'clock a. m., ~morrow.,
ned
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NEW YoBx, Friday,. 8ep·t6mlJer 14, 1883.
The oommittee met at 10 o'clook a. m..
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PROP RTY IN LIT·ERA..BY PRODU·CTIONS.~
llA.UllIO ·
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'A ..S.KOPP swum ··nd examined.
By the ,c u·A RMAN:
,,,
Question~ Are y ... ll tbe autbo.r ot· the mem.o rial whick you. :n ow p·resent to the committee .. . . . . .•·.· nswe:r. Ye , sir~
Q!! l\'"bere do loo reside .-A. At 41 Ohee,v,e r Place, Brooklyn..
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2:08
RELATIONS BETWEEN' LABOR AN·n , CAPITAL,~
Q .. What has been your, ·p unu"t i'. n life,f -,A . Doring ·tbe day-time I
.a m selling goods, toe . · n my living,., and I ,am maki.ng dramatic oompoaition,s and otber kinds of literary wor·k in ,a ddition!!
.
Q. Whendi,d y,oo lea¥,e Geff!]auyl-A. ', left Germany in 1852.
Q, Bad yon op,p ortu.nities for study and education in tbat co ntry'I
,A. oue at all.
Qil Yon submit thi - m·e .mor1al to the committee. Will yon ,s tate ln a
few words ·wba.t .r our idea is ,--A. My idea is prin:e11lally tlut't every
pe :·on b.~s a oou101on;o property righ·t , iu C\"'~cy ]1'ter~r3· ,llrodo.ction tbal
is original, and that the ac't of the Honse of 'L o rd -: declaring that th.ere
ii&, no ,eommon.-l .~·· · property right in a Jitemry work is, an annulment ·Of'
the ruu<i, :m ent upon which the· ,s ociety of the people, of ·the U·Dited,
States rest ,.
·Q . Yon desire legi la'tmn · -hich will better protect the original ide&a1,
and the expression of those ·ide,,as. ·b y Ji'terarJ:- menf-A Pre.eisely.. __
,Q~ Antt i .11 t.bis,· · ·e•morial hav,e you. fully se·t out yoD"r i,deas!-A.., Yea,
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Q. The eo·m.:ndttee will ·reeei.\"e it and. giv;e. carefu.1 attention to it
T.b.e m.emorial i., as, folio ·a:
,41 CHE ,· VER PLACB,,, B ·n oOXLYN, N. Y.,
-
September 10, 188&
Tu the United ,b"tate..s &ma.t;e Committee on .La'lxw arul Bd.ucatimi:
Tbe undersigned, a citiz u uf th _ Unit· d, St te~ . , mos: , re·~P .etfol1y petitiuw; :;,ou to take into consideration, ais biog in connection w·i,t h edoea t i.011 aat d tL rlgbts ,o f l abo.r , and. to tet,om mend ·t o th. Congre, .=s of the
·United Stat .. ~ eo11et:rniuc~ the rights, ·. f liteTary prodoc·t ors a'o d tb.e 'De•
,e essity of i ON 11·i u g lto11es,t:~ i u Iiterature,i
F irst. ·•-' . bereas tbe society of t.Lr t)eople of t'he ·u nited ,S tates as yet
re ts upo11 uom.m oo-law J.lroperty excl.u.s ively,, to wit, upon the :p rio:c.i.ple.
that c,-ery· pe ,.on ·bas th~ ri:glrt of' acquiring, by m.eans ,ra.Hd, oud -r· it,
the e,:xclusive rig.h t of utiliz:iug, eom1n1.ercial13:e, or· in a.u ~ m~DUf.'l, ot::er-.
wi ·e, be properti -s, of an:; tb ~ng, or of auy ut1lity nrisiug out of, and . ,i..•
iug in an.Y manuer connecte,d 111th anythin,g or,tb1ogs, and al,so the right
of -.b olding such. ri _- ht ·f-c,r bi,m,sel:£, - eirs, or as ·1gns, unlimited in time aa .
J,ong as, the thing or tb e utility so eoutrolled continues to be e iste.n t,
and-also the :ri ·ht of acq,uiri.u,g such 1ights in as many· 't ,! ings, and ntili'ti es as be can aeq.oire h means valid .a't comm,on J:a w; and v. l1eN?a8,
tber-e ,c annot be und,e r tile eou1n1on ]aw anyt'bi:ug or anJ~utility that i6
commerei·a lly, to W'i t, money~earnin,g 'ly,. utilizabl - a1nl, not. be, b~y sonae title or ot~b.er, · be prop. rtJ of sou1e ]ler,sou or,other.,.,rea:l or artiti.cial ; and
wh :reas, wh n·~ver ,~\ thing or . ut:Ui'ty is the prodoot of au,- · ind of homan 'labor, cor1 oreal or mental, I •·wfullJ p rtorn~edJ such tbin,g t)r ,sucb
utili1. : is sel evidently bl'" tht\ ,n.ost- valid o:f all t ·t1e . , to \Vit, tb&'t of
labor, the p,r op rtY of its la1 ft1l prodnetor .; and . here.a, , there not be,ing a·s y · t an)· ot er t~a.n common-law Prfl!IJert.Y as, th.·. fondau1e-u't of"
:eoeiety, such labor p ·r odue.t i· . neces . arily f.he ,c ommou -la ·. i1rope1"tl u,c
the pro(loctor; _aud w'h,e~eaB that priueipleof eonrmon-la·w propert}~ i~,,
as ,e m11basized by Bin k. tone, held as being so, fnndamental ill ~oc'ie ·:Y
that even public nece8s:ity cau·oot ainnn.1 it, bot tan, at most, by ~.pecu1l
]egisl•. tive ac rnnnpel i, be prop,r ietor of ..· thin \~,. or of a uti.lit.) uuai\roid.ab,ly necessary for the i►nbli,c w . al to sell i . to the State or ,c omn1uoity;
and wl1 r,eais . l~teraf3· wor 1s . prodnet of human labor, an,1l is a ,c o·m ~ ~
m,~.1· iaJ 11ti'lify, ·.·· n,l therefore, until aba11doued ·b y its p,r oductor, bi in al.I
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209
RE.L A'rlONS BE1T WEEN LA.BOK AND, CAP.ITAL.
that is in ·i t lawfully original. by bim!I•his common. . Jaw prope:r ty; and
whe.reas the enactment by A British House of ords of the last ,c entury
deelario.g ·'- hat there :is n.o ~m10on-law· property in a literary ·work·, not
havi'ng been accompamed by aio announcement of a. 'h igher property·,
tiln.dament u.nder ·the principl,es of whi.ch wbatsoe,. er is lawfully origi~
nal. in . liter~tb.e p- ,.r o:nerf
\""
- ~•.J prodn,ct could h.aYe 'b een he1.d a ·. orim:naH1··
il!:li.r
l!!i
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cll,i
with certain limita;tiou,, ,. of its a.u.t1ittr, placed literary labor .Produet: .' outside of' the fnndame t: o,f society, and ,e stablis.b ed a Jtrooed,eot th.at. if
equentia1ly appli d to all sp ies o.f labor produe · and. oti~it ie,s, wouJ,d
f\orre der society to tbe aoa.rehy of a vile com1unni•. ·m.-· and wh reas
Iba· preootlent baa been followed ,o oucerniug literary works in th·.. Joris•
1••r11d enee of the · nited States, a:od apparently·even in 'the Constitotio.n
of the ·u nited S,taites,, i is therefore n.e eesi· ary to provide that ,said
·precedent. be of no e~eet in th.e United S,t a·tes; tha.'t the Constitution
of the United St.ates, if its ·c lause r,eJatin.g to literary· works is n.ot con•
s,truabJ.e 88, not resting upon th·· '. ·t preeed,e nt,, he .i n tha·t, amend.e d; that
all acts of·Con,gre -s re:Jlating to literary works res,ting, as those .acts do
res , upon that p.r ecedent, be._~pealed ,; that.it ·be d · cla·re-.l that any·per .
~,Qn.·w ho origin.ally .a nd l.~wfhlly, to wit,, without violating tbe ®m·mon .
law- propet1,iJ of any ,otbe:r per,s on i)ll a.prio:r li_terar.y work 7 eoncel,:e _ autl
rnak es a literary work, whetberiu e -. te· ta line,or avolom,e , or a seri a
of , olumes, sball h.a ve,, until other ise ordained ~y the supeooession
· ·th i•eal-pr-ope.r ty·law, wi th1n the j~risdietion of the Uoi.ted States, and
as far as the power of the Uni.· ed S.tates by treaty·or otherwijs e reaches,.
a. eommon~law property· in w·hatsoe\'."'•er· j ,.· in his wor·k l.aw.f o.H.y on.g ioal
by him, .an.d is not coinci,denta[~y iden.t ieal ·with or m.arkedly· similar to
any pri.o r w·o rk or part of an,: p, ·"'o r work ~by· an,y o·t her· person; and. tbu;t
sue·h. oommo n-'Ja·w properl)i" b ·· held in Jnrf··,p,rudenee as .an incorporeal
bereditam ·nt arhdug, b) labor title, ou't of' the person of it -_ author as the
thing corporate and atta.ebed to hi'm, .a nd oonsisting of tb.e rigbt of exelu
si'l'"ely oontr,o ,lling unlimited in. ti • · .nd location for himself, b eirs, or
ass.igns . the utiliziition of all !he commercial •?11.d other pro1,erties of'
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whatsoever is in h'iis litera~y labor p•rodnt1. la,vfully· original by b1m.
Secondly._Wbere-as it is, on the oue sid.e , se1f-e·v ident that a, per&)ll
who,. by the lawful exercise of his pe·r.so·1·1al mi od propertie, -, oon.ceixe .- ,.a nd
·ro.akes -a litera.-r ) '\'Or·k be mate1~iatly and ideally rowar-d~d for h·is laho1
it is, oo the other sid,e, a]so self e ·ident that ,common~la\\" 1,roperty i.n
literary T·o- ks, when carri d ont to, t.he foll, is, since lite"r a·f l' labor is fo,r
'the most ·v.ar:ia:ti,. .ely· repr-oducti",.e, an ,e normous. hindrance- to tbe freei
e·xercise of tbe literary labor· properties of t'be p,nblie.; and whereas it
is also ,s elf~e·vi.d,e nt that it is utterly hu.11ractic ;bl : 'to vemov,e that bindrance by the co.1q111ou~btw ri(J'ht by ·whicb the:State ,cau, when ti epub..
Ji,e w,eaJ de·m,an.d· , •coerce a :p trson · o se]I bis, private property to the
IMi'bli.c;: an.d whereas, while on the one .· ide the p:ri.n ciples of oo:m mon-law
1,rope·r~y, be1.ng,, as, th.,ey are, tbe formulated efforts ,of h.um:au. sooiety ·to
build its.elf, live, mov ·, and ha·\~e i·bs, being upon the basi·,_ ot . h·a t 'ii
1,
conceives. to be. right aud Jo.st, and being, snch as. tbey al'e, the best
which sooj.ety co■ld attain in its .Pri1niti,~·e .aod. later degree .- ,of et·b i,c al
know·Jedge and social architec _ure, hai,e in them.selve ·.. a W;arr-antee of
being a fundament d:e jur,e,, as well ,as by ile facto·, circnm1stanee, ·t b:ey
o•nw""er
m tbn,
d~rlD
lf'U\'" ts
' · · ar
tta..
a'.,:l\e
, , ·o·
: .'D· 't-h.Q
~~ ·_
.· flid'o,
v h'l!' -,h· ~ :t. ·;etbi
: ■ owI B~D
~ 1:n01 ._b
'.Y,
~Ii;
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oompam·t i.v ely s.,p eaking,, a few peraoos,I and eap,,,eially from that of the
· aste.r who is, crowned. as the. Chris.t' of the ,g lobe, only rela·t ively de
ju·re, or, i.u other w,o rds, o:f a low·degree,of et~i.cal_i~v; an.d w~,~~86, '!bile,
·therefor-e, the comJ"mon..Jaw prope:rty ,o f society· 1 _·. , 1n. the d1nn~ o.r,d er ,o f
oosmos, onl,y a transient one awaiting··t be diV1ne app::roach of' t.b.e·higher,
14
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21.0
BELATIONS .B ETWEEN l:JBOB AND CAPITAL.
~·
i't. is. also self~e·v ident that neither in ethieali.t y nor iu MJCial 1ttei.e1100 iM
the bomaD ,race, or an,y ·nnmerica'lly not.able purtion of it, advanced to
tbat degree that that common-law p1operty ftwdameat can, ·w1tk safety·
:to,_ so,;,iety,, ~ aooalled, exeept. .in a, few certain, apee·~ of thin.,g a and
ubl.ities.; &Dd whe~, the li'tera.ry species,,o f utilities is o:ne of these fe w;
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and. where,aa, ·n ot only the material interests o.f sooiety but also the
highes·t ,ethica:l verities de,mand t-hat on. the a.noullment of any porti.oH
of 'Che •oorumon-la'w p~perty foiu.lameil't ethical.. property law mlldt take
the pl~e of the· annulled po,rtiou; an.(I ,v·'bereas it is 't he higbest ethiea.1
Gr ideal property o.f tbe homau. race,, gained iby the labors of ita past,
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'b at its, ethical progressions, oo mad._- in the ma.J .. -ty of law, and. with ,.
doe rooognitiou of what is tho rigbteousD6881of' its past, 11 i.s tberefoff
nooessa1·3, afte:r .11eh rooogu.i t·on h:w been. ren.d ,e red to the pas,t by re ~
p11diating the afo.resa·d enactment of the Britis.h. Bouse of Lo.rds, to pro~
vid~ th,~ t C?D and after a certai.ai date com·w ob~Jaw property :i n literllry
works. shall eeaae. by ca·uble ot ethi,eal ,e:,;piration., and that, etll'ical-propertir l_aw shall be, conoorDiog lit-era1:y Jabor 1,rodue~ i·n tome, to a, cer~·
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tain de· :r es in the ·u nited St.ates, to wit, ba't . a'II tlie rigbts. of oommon.1. , , propert:y shall ·be poStSe·ISsed bJr a person is whataoov·e r is- bii .la,w fol
~1.i:terary t•r_oduct only d 01·ing fitly ·vears,. begiun.io. g· f~uw the time of b·i ·
initiatory hibor thereon,,, aud. that alter i'11e lapse of s·oob fifty , eam,, 1f
no,t previous bJ an31 · act of its prop,rieto:r ,-,-r■.utin: ., or fot~feit:i ·g it to tbe.
po,blic, it.shall be,pub1ic ·p.r opert)'",p.rovided that ·i n any utilization thereof
by an~y pe.raon the idea,, p·"'-opertg of th original author, W· wit, the ideal
-distinction as the.autbor tbereo.t~, be formaJ.1.y rooo.g n:i zed duri:o,g · all.age·
iuto w·hich it may be carried by· the course of ho.man event:s.
Thirdly. Wbe·t her under the ,c ommon law or under a ·o 1 18 .J _t.em ,o f p:r in .
ei1>les, of property, it i& absol tely necessary tha·t poo1al legislation be
dect~d .f or the pcotecti oh of th@ literc1cy product.o,- a .. well at1 'for the houor
.and dignity oJ" die n.atio.n. If the ,d iguitl~of th.e State.is violated by tbe
the.ft of a thiug that its••c onsumed on being utilized, and thereby ,c eases to
exist-if to receive so.ch stol :n 001,1,orenl property, is a felony, it is a~
moch morn a violation of the di:« uity of tin, ,s,t ate. when a person steal.·
direc't:Jy or i directl.J" fron1 au aotbor'~ w 'l ltal p,rod.oct., or :m entally·co·n ..
~n•~ soch stolen product, k.now·iug, or hav·i ng reasons. to belie.ve it to
h. ·~e, boon st.ule~t or eom.f!1.e roiaUy or in an,y uther manner~·- ilizes il, 1t ~s
· -· ot only a \·1olation of Jln,-;ait-e prope·r ty but also a burden1.'o,g of wba·t 1s
the abidin.g id,eal wealth of the nation witb ,a n k.eirloom of t-hef:t. The
race bas, in-it masseli, not yet reached tbat ethical degree that, on ~being
. of"'.,c e1 taio wo,r k ,. k-·now.n 38
.reach- ed.,,.11 · a k-~s t b: .e g_ uestion of t· h. ,e.~tut·nors b-1p
,,,Sbakespeare's ,' a for m,o st oue iu in.telJectual life, and wbe.re,; ,e r it is
~ h -d there, is no cau_re to be grateful to fbrmer 'timee tor ba· ·in,t be .
queathed to posterity a le·g cy of •t ·oubt and. an heirloom o,f tliscouifort
in uuoertaiut.y· as to the au.t borship tber-eof., At p•1~e.se·n t there is.no mo.re
p,ro• isi.on on that than the-·· haM ·been Jbrmerls ~ ·w ·h ,e tberth.e.r e ,a re.o,rw·i ll
not be an,y .m ore aut'bors of the hei.g bt of b.im,I ,vbosever·he has ·beeu,
<>u.t ,of whom ,c ame these works or the 'h i,, best part -, thereof, i not in
i)oestion Assumin:g that no wore tbero will be, autho:rs of ,a ny degree
·of lawful origiuaJit!·· have ethi~al r.~g.b.ts to 1'1 ·ha't 1s their own,_and. 'tbe
'CO'mmunal conscie0ice has a rig.h t to .i ts ease·ment on qoes,t ions of au.thor~
;abip of 'Wor'ks of .any degree of originalits.. Ye·t who cau deu!r to Nature
·pow,e r to e, en exool t'hose \\'. orks, or· that there is ,less, 1· v.t lessll@SH no,w
than fo,rmerly I , ·. ator . , when she acts, her 'pote.Dci•es pbenome·n all.Y
ori:giua:I or·in any degree of originaJi'" ~ 9! ~ does,oot n.rst steal.berselfio visibly
,thr,ough the rauks, of' th.e 1 a ·_t regi.men.ts, of_pr~essi~:o~a·1s ~ - fin.(l some
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RE1LATIO!i8 BE,T W.UN LABOR A.N D CAPITAL.
She. 1s inv,a·riably first an amateur.. In.deed, ~e remain . trne to her higbes;t only as loug a.s sbe remain11 amateur, •. ·n d ·i s in her· lowest when s.b.e
acbJ, on.der the pro&MionaPs trade-animn& .And goverrnnental pro;tee.
tioo, ~~ far ~88 i.t C'&n_po88,ib'y (le given, ia, n~sary BO·t only as between
profesmona.la,. but .aleo, aJid mtJBt~g sa., for··t be protection of -the..ama·t enr
a,piost t,ie p•rofessional, so called, for, as to lawlessnee·.·. in t-be literary
.s phere of labor, it m,a y be said that in these times, when literary ,o rig-ioalities ·11ave so.cb an enormous money value, copi-d ity is more than
formet"ly a factor ·i n ~eansJng ·a nk·n o·w n original ao.tbors to,be p1.on.d ered,
maltreated,., and extingnished.
_
In. legislation thereon, it. is, abo v•e all, necessary t-0 provide ha:t any
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person, on oonoeivio,g or on hanng made a literary onginali.t-, 1. may de~
llDBi~ mth 'the. Gov•ernment a esuop:sis, of the o,rigiuality· or a .foll cop:r
of the . ork, and that be must d.e pose, uJNW oath., tha;t wba·t he claims,
.as being original with 'h.im,. i . i·n fact and. lawfully original. with him, an.d
whence w·bat~ .-er is in. his work not o,riginal with him has been taken.,
and that it b,as ·bee,n1Ja.wftllly take I and utilized., to wit, that it i .· eitbe1~
p blic pr•o pert)"', o,r , w'h en :n ot public proper J ., tbe ,c onsent of 'the la .. ful
pro,p,riet.or :b.as been formally obtained .for the utilization, and that the
utilization itself' is n.ot •.. copy of the original ondistingui,sbed in an:v
manner as ·o oing a oo,py, bot ia ,ab ori,g inal variati0D tb.ereof.. A ·f arther
·neces·-_.·,i t,y thereon. i a,formal ,declara ·. ~o of any vi.o lation of an author's
ri._g ht_.· a telony against.the S'tat•e. . Other necess:~ties ~ere are, an,d your
petition.er· begs. 'to refer t.o ,a bill thereon,. m:a de by·'h im, ,· ·n.d iotrod'i1ced
into t ·e House or »~.r esentatives o "'tbe Uni.ted 8.tates by Mr.. Wm. E.
Robinso'D, and refened by the Hoase to "it .• Committee on p ,_· ten.t , with
orders to· bave it printea.
Witbont so,e h provi··ioo there is no,pr-otection 011 that . .· here it i .. most
need,· d.. For:,.w bile io _be literary profession, and i'o the \'"'&rious,branches
of co · · ·-eroo. arising out of a,n(l connected with it, ·m an.y persons. tbPre
are to who .·e moral res,po,n ,ib1lit: an 11okuown author may lea·v,e. h:i s
onginalities~ i , is .a l oaf· ·'t that they contain n:om'ben tba·t a.r e thieves.
aod tools,of outl ·_ wi· m "Tben au on.known author ,grl"'es hi1. mao.oscript,
oll't of 'hi · :11 n.ds-a · be mus· gi . e it 'b efore :be
.r each the publi0
arena of Jiterabrne -its, Cff·h te.n.t,, ·i f ·o ot alwa.y s directly reached by literai," tbiev •·-, e~an be readily eom·municated to,·t hem and iLq original ·ties
utilized.,, and held on._grou-od .' l~ke those of tbe. burglar, wh.o, after havibg
brok,e n. into ·:\n iron safe and plundered it, cladmed right•· of labor, an.d,.
•~ usequeotl. .·, of'personal property in the plu.id.e-r bee use ·t he.eon ooption
of the ac,t w... ·. original by him, and the act itself a feat-of m,e cbanieal art..
-·a:-ot ,onl,y doe:s tho hone .-,t aothor· know himself' t.,o oo ·p lundered, and his
w·ork~ eve·n if he get , heJ:o re the IJD.blic, d.e t,e riorated in value, beean&e no
mtore ·pos; . s . in:g that newn.~ that is 1Such a great, factor in e .tablishi:n.g a
work in the soil of literature, ~-·nd giving it, •c ommercial ·: a1u.e . bo·t , he is;
w·h en poor. unable to ca.r.r y on legal proceedings against the tbi. ··ves,
.a'°d is lik,eJy to be cland,es:tto ·I,y operated agajns,t in any e:frort to brio.·_·.
his workt1 before the public le_,t, the. si·m ilarities bet .· een his own
original work and the 01igi.~ally stoJeu: work m.ay b:r and the author
-o.f the lat,t er ag a thlef. .· n.<l when to those persons are a.d ded newspaper Geslers, capn.cio·o sly arrogant,.. and newspaper thugs n1aliciousl_y m" ·ebievoos, and , .e ·.· s1>aper Hessians,, venially servile, pouncin.,g
oo the poor, awuggling··w or.ker-an(l pouncing tbe more th.e more. genius
or· tal,e nt or ·h on.e st aspirat10n he e1lidenoes-and wben, abJo,. fan ti,cs ,o f
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caste and creed and tyranny ad . . tb.e,mselves to the clandest1nel ·.· con-ducted operation ·. .agai.o s,t bim, it .needs,, in.d eed, the strong~st arm
-0f the majesty· of the ·nation, in law and govem.ment ieo•n stituted, to,
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
212
BBl,ATIONS BETWEEN LABOR A.ND CAPITA.L .
lift itself .in ~efense of viola·t ed. person 1 anti national rights,, and. of
material and ideal property.
Your petition.e r :has, since ov·er tw·ell"'e, Jears, with a few b,n ef intenuisili:!'1~o·n s onJ 8 ,3t i~......,, .em
' Vlng. he-.IID.
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mate bran.ch of eommon law CCJmmerce,,devoted ·the b.ours usually given
to recreation aft-er the ,d a~'s ·t ,oil to th,e arduous tas,k ot literary ia·bor~ a ·e
·h as discovered vast tro·ths, ba1S gained great conceptions, and bas made
s number of dra.ma·t ic compos1.t ions of _g reat originalities. And yet 'h is
exper.,ie:nce.is only of there. being .s:o,ch a 1 ·.,wlessness ope'li1tive a,gains,t
him. that, be dare not submit a.·n y new literary originality, or aught else
n.~'W in t1Je world of thought, lest he be pltlndered tb,ereof, and t .e
plooder seattered, even. as fa;r as Europe., W·i thont here ente·r ing into
details,,of that experie,nce, he simply insists that if what is his experi·en.ee ev;en be held as i.mprobabl~ the 11.eoossity for, Iegb1la ·on o:o the·
subje-o t of authors' ri.g hts, of labor is i·m perativeJy self~vident. Th.e
ftmdamental .Principle in t'be ,governm,e nt of ,society is to, the effect that
the ,p rotection ,o f rights of perso:ns and prope,ty be not given over· to
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even if' 1,u cll !actorsbip be etbicall,y· .m,o v•ed,l ·t o formolated Jaws and
,offleers 9f _govero~,e n't ,, Bta't utorily· :i n.v_ested with power of law., It is
expected that all factors in &0e·1e,ty,...activ,e under th•e ·protection of statutory la,w , ethi~ . Dy ai,d , to the fol •e .t of their power, the administration
ofla,w,,·b otno factor, under·our system, of government, outside of s,t at .
u.t orily established office, ha.a, arbitrary :p ower in any function of· gov.
emme·n.t.. This. refers e9:pecially to newspaperdom as a foremos.t factor
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in. this, city and iu New York. Th,er-e, is ·n ot one of them that does 110-t
k~ow where protectio,n :for ·u oown, or, as tar as concerns ·tllat, auy
originally prodn,c ti'v,e per-son, i- most n,e eded; y·e t not OD•e , of' th:e m, to
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fa.ct. ,o ,n ·t he occasion of the.introduction oif the bill on litemtme, abo·ve
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.mentiO•Ded. , one of th
ii em., 1n malmo
1v,e aga,1~ n :,t:- your peti't10.oer, m ad ea
~agra-0.efnl ons!, ngbt -?D tbe H~n,. Willli,a.m E. ~bins.o ., and the others,
µt.e ~rnerrboys on~ f~nce, ~oyed _that ex,.hib,ition of be chivalry· ,o f
lie·w York uews:tmde~om. _ To cri.ticise me·n and · ·,easnns is, in democracy, a1~ absolute right, but there i ·-apoiut - ere criti,ci m ceBSesand
malu. .e ,o f the ri,gh·t of criticism beg.ins When tha,t point is reached. it
·beoo:m-es treason againtst the press,; ._gainst what is,, iD. ,d emocracy, the,
,e onnter-.g o'\er.omen·t to •rba.t ma)r prove itself as being in repnbli.~o
forms ,o f gove.r nment ,.,estiges of dyna .ts ism in the abuse of powers, of
,g overument by temporary ineumbent.s of its offices . It ·i s then dynas,t y·• If~
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iau1 1n t h.·e press lte
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·. t ·· e eapnoos.,i
· .1ces,
ab.uses, and
peYsonal .m almotives of that of former times ..
Your petitioner is pre.pared to submi~1 if d.esired;,,,demons,t ratio_ns briefly
made on the t .o necesuti,es .n a·med at tbe 'b eiJinning of this,petiti.o n,.ao,d
also any .:furtbe·r sta.tements that may be d,esired on the Jas,t .named. And
he will ever p,r ay..
M. KBA'U SKOPF.
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PROBO!flYE TABIFP POLIOY.
_ The OBAmll&N., I ha -e .a memorial from. William ~a,wreoce, First
Comp,troUer of the Treasury, with r,e solutions adopted b3" ·t he Assooi,a.
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-_-_ ·OD, an assoo1a..a lt1rge no·mbe.r of pro ·,-·"n,e nt pub,l ic men in Wasbin,g to n and ut"h er parts
of the.CO'UDtry, wb.ich h.e desire.s to lay before tbe commi.ttee, the-reso-·
lu,t ioos and me,morial bearing· particularly on the subject, of the t-aruf~
!he paper will be :received and illed.
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
.R E.L A.T J,O. ·"S D ·TWE,E N L·ABOB
21.,3
.l'lfD CAPITAL.
The doeomen.t is, as follows:
1
ABSOOLlTION OP .A JIEBICAlf ECON,OJDS.T.S.
[ ~.d eat, 'William La·wrence, Waabin~n ,, D. C.; First Vloo Pruideot, Jobn C.,
'New.t 'Wasthiu,lf,on,_ ,D. C.. ; .Tr-easnre:r, ~J . B.,. Boda~, Waehm,g ton, D . 0.; Corrcspoud
._, . -t a~1ng·Se.er,etary1 Edwa. rd _Young, 1431
. .: San.Jal, New Yor__c.·~1ty ;.· _K-eoo
ing :~ retary., .L.
Q· ,etJeet., Wash1·0,no · D Cm; Vie - Preside ·m: For Mwacbo ~, George RaaiJ
Di~~,, Boston ; ior. Rhod · I 'land H - B.. Metcalf, Pawtut, · t; fer Vennon:t, Redfield Proctor, Jlnt~and; for Maine, Frederick ·l:lobie, -··ugQBta; fo,r · Penos.y lvauia,
..J.oaepb D. Week.8,, Pittabul'gb; fu 0hio, Celumhu Delano, Mt. Vernon; fo·r ·minois,
.
D.a:VJd H. Mason, Chicago. ]I
W ..a....qn1NG~ON, D . 0~, &pt61nl>er 10,. 1883.
DEAR Sm: We ·t ake p'I -.. ure 1.n info , ing yon that in ad•]ition t.o tbe
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other work. of the ass~iation, ~r:iff cln:bs have rooeutl.y beeno:rga0iized.
in various cities ,o f Q,b .io, chiefly by the oorrespo,u ding secretary.. It i1,
belie.ve<I ·t hat, th,e se clu.bs ,some of whicb already consist,oil' 300 m,em~
bers---an,d 0th.e m soon to· be organized, ,vHl ,_ert a powerftd indoenee
_
_.
State during ·t b,e.•ensuing ,:,,.,eeir~
in that 1
You .a re respeetfolJ y invited t,o atte:o d a Tariti Couveotion at Oolumba/s, __ T~eeday, Sept,e mb r 18th, at wbi,e'b d.. l gates fro.m the ·v a·r ious.
tari« clubs, and other· fn•end& of p.roteetion to American indastcy ·will
be ·p resent. There ·will be a Republi~a n mas . , meeting in the e,renin:(,(
of ·tlle.;s a,me d~y, at which •wiU also ·be ~·~ ut hundre~ of m~ ·, an,d
workm,e n from manofaetu .ring ,e stablishme nts in dUferent parts of
the, State. General :Raumt la·t e Cemmis~ion .·. •r of In ••·mal ·neveo11e,, exSena-.tAi>r Brllce, and o,t ·h.er eminen·t speakers .[ ro.1n other S,tates, as we'll
38, fr,om Ohi.o,, h. ve OOD e- t ·d to ad.d ress one. or the other ,o f these: as1
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0
Shoul•l son
be unable to at·t end it is hoped that you ·w ill in a letter to tb.e P1-es,ident,.
to be read a,t tb.e ,con·ventton., ,.· trongly indorse the work of the 88sociation, tati"g tbat, .· p~oteeti' ·•· taritf is. now ·t be issue o enhado·wiog all
otbers,. ete.
A ·p relhninary draft of· a platform to be snbmi.t ted fo:r ado,p ·io11 ffi,
ap.p ended here.to., aud you a.re respeetfully asked to .g iv it, your earnest
C0 Dside:ratioo, and to suggest sn.c h a.ru .udments, addtt.i,o u ',. etc., as IDc f
seem to yon desirable"' To seeu.r e a Congress f:.·vorable to protection.
f:ltlZt year,, tt is importan·t tha.t O,hio 'be •c arri,e d tkis get1r..
Addreu either of the ·o ndersi.g ned, pre .·"ou.s to the 18,t h instant, at
the Neil e:ouse,.Oolum.b us, Ohio~
Very rnspeetfull,y yours,,
WM.. LA WREN0E ,
lie'mblag:es ,; Governor Port·,er·, of lodia.o a, ·is al6o expected
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r ·T ~ 1
EDWARD YOUNG,
&cord-ng &e.reta.ry.
E
DRAPT ,o p RBSOLVTIOH~
Wbereaat on the 8th. -f pril,. 17.89, J, · - :, Madie.o.D, "the father ,o f tbe ·Co11.stitutiou,11 deel&Ted th.a t before its adop·t ·io - 1-h e S.ta~ · 'Jiad tb .· pow,er. to protect. a11d.
,eberi•1h ,,, Dia ·uf: _ ·tnms~ and '' that man.ofactn . · h.ave ·b een re · red up by the foster
ing· can ,o f S,tate legis!3tures," and 1:,ba:t_'' ~ adop,t io . ·t he _~onstitorti,on they h '\"'
t~wn the, ,e x.e reise of thi po, _, r ·i nto'' the Cengr·eae,. "' ·.. ith an e:-.p ee ·,t -i on tba·t
those,mteresta ·w·ouldl n.ot be neglected. here ; .,,
.A n4 woe~ a& ibis power to eaa·e t a prot <~ tarur 'l ~w is f.01r1n.d ID the autbori.t~·
,g i·v en to,Coe~ ,L, tie, lay an,d. oo .e tt 'taxes, d:otiea [ nd] im:posts," and. '' to, NgDlate
eommeree w~th _foreign n ·tion9 and among tbe several. State1 1' (.Art. 1, &:c· ij); in
puranance of wbich the second. act paued by the tint Congress, o,n a daywh1.eb.l!Wlde
.it a aeoond Deelamt.i,ono,f' l~t epen~enoo---J'u]!' -1:, ll't!9-·! V• ~.'An act forJ.aJ:ing ,duti'3H
on goode, ·~area, and merohandute 11n1H,,J te4 1.n to, the U 1nted. State .;:;, thc _ptt.alll.b le to
,vbtch declare . tlu,t '~i.t- ~s nee · _c. ry :ro,r 'the ,euoo·1rage·m eot and protection ,o,f man.n .
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
2l4
KELATION19 , BET·W EEN LABOR il'D CAPITAL.
faet , . _· P ( , Stat~, 2-1) ; a .d the pew .:r to, levy ·lrDtective 411tia hD·B, flinee, 'been 1811&~
ta;iped by the Supreme Court (G1bbone e,4, Ogden,, g Wheaten,, 196 ;. Un.i1t.ed. States,
M ·ngold. 9 . O· ard,1666):;
.
Auel whareae, a p,wt&cti:ve 't ariJi 'ls eesential to :aooure prospel'
_., -·~, ity and ha.ppine&S to
a~l) the poop e 4il'D,d - '1. ·. . a~ ' 'tai'D Dat·· '
reve ue.s., i de_p ' den .. aud power for t•h .
foUo . ing, among other Feuons:
(l.) I~ ,~ t s trom _furei _g n. pmd.--.c:e n ~ pa_ . · ·t ,o r the pr-'v ilege of seUln_g their
oommoditiee, he~~ and.thus gi.v ,e s, to, American prod Dlcen, e.xe.mpt from . o.c h pay.men t,
an ad vantage which seelll'.'@ ,@m.·p loyme,n t to, ca1,i t:a1l bare,, d-i vend:les o~r in d-nstri . · ..
~n.i .ds up man'ti:fac nre11. ,e nlarges &omn1e·roo, bni da, 1l p., c'i'tiea, ad.dB, to 1-he vaJ~.e oi,•
fann:&j, gi'v ,u , empl~u1,e nt tu ,cM1r peomile protected .· ,·.-a·i n t oom·pet.itiou wit-h the1cbf!:a.l"
p ··npe.r ws«ea ,o f Europe, ,a nd t'hereby sec~res an · ones~ ,da:y s wage1 io.r an hone l
flay e 'Work, and reoo1,i.,;niz;es the rig;h te of [a~m- and the d~gn i ty of la. beren t
( 2. ), I protoote fro1n fo-r-eign oompe·t:iti·o n tbe p.rodue'ts o-f America.a :farm ,a,n d seonr :::,
ft?r th,e m,,a ~HOME llA RKET w~icb is,~mianent,,., llnfailing, and ad.eqnat:e, and t-hne, pl~es
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i~' 1::~:e:!;:r:~::s-:~Ti ~b: -:::n~ i;:!~~-r!adi~:~~r &:;;:~~t1tlu, ·~~ - ~ i ·,JJy ~Y s . o the fam·er aud . gardener a m~rket .f or produot& wbich
r.ould no
, . pon,ed ,
_
(:t) It brin,gs to our sho s the a iHed mech~ i s , man ufaeturen, · H(l a:rt i.san:e., · ·od
f.be ho~est toUer.e of ~ther Janda, ·tbns,taki.n g from ~11ropean natll.,nbs, tnt.ir 1elemenf11 9j
at:rtNgt,h and p&Wt-r, and planting the.m on A..mie:ri,c an .so~I, ·t o become .andl win -,l e with
...,\meri.o ao eitizeo , to , . en.re for t h ~ v,e s 'indep ,n de·u ,0e111 competen,ee, . eaith and
happinees,, and for :he Bepo~,lie the u11lite, of their eot.eirprise and .industry~, in a laud
· _'h ere tbey BR) woloome-where employment and th.e jnet ·r-e,w' Ris of labor· a w,ait-
t.bem:
(4.,>" It- bri s ,p,ro~pe _•,t y to onr ,· , tlostries., th mea'DB of oomlort, ple:o. y, and "
oompetenee to every •.-itizeo able and willing· to, labor!, wi·t h ever . · a,v enue to, wealth
eq,uaUy open to ,he ~nterp-r ise o( all, aud_a oommon. sc·nool edihe.&tiou. for' all the e'hi.1d.ft:,!J_oi ~h~ la __, wi'~-~ no 1:~1 u.s~ioo t~ _~ ~di criuduat'"no.ag · st any o · e,on account l~r
... 41-•n-- i'!IIJ ..J,,IIJ,J.,,
,+.-v ";n,'1-1 '~
· ii 0~
~ in ~
n .A-Wv.ua
I I -,, ;iflir&.11,d jl' oo
.
. 'llt o/r,I' coi.....-:1 •t1-v..:u.,
(a ,) It seen ·_to · merie u co,n su ·e .. , a, a pply for, t 'h.e ir 'W Bt:ir!s, at encb :r ates ,a a ,doe8
ett ua and ·_ :uct ·ue.tiee to all.. Under it tb . prices ef au oommooities llear .j Mt, rela,tion to eaehothea.. wbich does. no w1ong to a.ny~ Und r p.roteetio~. pr~,erl:v sustained,
tb_e coo of ev ry ~rt:_1ole to c otbe the body -· ,d ge~Uy to soppJy aD hmuan want.s
h las hMD: 'lle'Dd~n·e,1 C. e. per.. Free trade or ,& 0 . . _If . 01dd destroy ,Ol!ll" ma:uofaetw,
ures,. a~d. the,· Europea·n, manufacturrem,, ' ..-·,v ing ~he, only grea,t -work-1bo,p1 of' th
world.~~~ nHeved, o_~~ · . , e~e~ . ~orupetiti~n,; would ~ , _aoe the price °:f tb.ei:r prod~
ucts,1n ae llin.g to Amenca,:o c1 t.1zens, and redH10 · : the pnce bey w. ou ld otherwi&e p y
for Ameri,can. &Jtt~icol t _ra• :pr-oduets;
·
· ·
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. ',II
.
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ro;:,·L!:;;::sa1!1d ~i:':f:~a;~:t!J:!rr:;.eu7!t;~;ib=:a~
~~0 eac~
_:mn~. peoCnee
and fm-·_ na't1ooa~ def.ense JlD wa.r; ·t h:na _g ivn~g
he Republic~ pe~t
all otber nation . , a.ndl the :means by· ·w hich 1.t may en.d.u:re thro gb
me ;
,(7 .. ), It 'has, seet'ID(l i"n every period -o f onr· 'h.i:&~cy pm ·p e·r ity for .l l on:r 1ndustri.e.s;
a souudcu·rrency, abW1,dant na,tion J'ievenne.s, hlgh public credit, __ ad. rapid grrow·th
in wealth. E . -ery _p eriod i J CfO'I ' hiatorv UJ,d er fl e ttad@. ,o r a I-ow· t _rift b~ ,s b ·-·. , atten.ded wlth hard t1me~ em.b armssed indl1,etrles, d.is.o:rdered Cll.JTeue:v, de:6,eien,t rev ...
-onnee, de-p~ciat-ed. pnblie cre<U t , and. _b M ,. been . j t:bo~n.'t ,_ma~ial p,~o · r,esa, iu we~l~ h ;
And · bereas the Cobden Cl.ub,i a free-tr-d.•le 38800l&tion j)n En, land, and Bn:tiah
~ D' factnre
, an uaUy . ,. din," · o J e .. nilf.,1s States f:re&-trade dooumen , .fo1·
,U ~tri bution amon, · the peOp·lR . ,and money to aid. 1n. their object• to, sooum a, ,,'t--a.'rift•
tor 'r e ,enue. -only/' thereby to b111i'ld np a Enrro.peao :m ooopoly ,o f· man:nfac ·ures and to
d :_t-r oy · ,e riean i: d.u st·riee, iD. whieh w·ork they am aided b .. 1-b - American Fr-ee
1 . Le
··1 J·
· A a ,·l( ,S·"'.Ht
. • t11on1
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··· .. ·1 ,.-, Tb e1.•
,~13.0r~,
.•· '
Tr -~
tHle
.' . ... gue
o. , ·· N·. ..,w ~_,1; or
L __ , 'I_•ar 'assoc1a
e l-s.e·, ·h.er,
&to.1lt:t.d, That it ,~ · ·t he d l"d ,. as. :it is he intere. t-, of v . ry .•~mbric.an oi t :zen o a id
:i o eon.nt rae: _'tng th: se alien inH.nenOO!S:, ah ke bo til,e and ruinous to th su ceess ,and
p ,rosperi'ty ot: A.me:r ican in lu_tri :
- Rf'llf>lrm.1, That we ·. ,@lill&~d &I Congress that it ~~ I per.f eet and, ac:lb1er.e to tba,t f oir m
of 1-gi~lation whi,e h
fos.tM,. p,rot,ee , antl eneou ~re the Jab.o.r of the 1 - eehaoic .
tbe, ma.unfn.ct urer, the a.tt1sa11, artul o · ht lbor i111 a'll furms~ and, secure for iLt just rew.a r~ls; a.nd. 10 onle: · to aocom,pr b th·is, it is i:ndisr _neably neces.sar "to 1,rotec·t a.~ r· cuJ ture, mnnu1·a . tun?s, :mining,, ehipp,.·ug, na v i_
g,a tion, and · U the in duetn s ,o,f o'fn·
peo1>le..
·
- .ll.u-ol f'!ti/,,. Tbat as edu cA tio:u el-e\f'a'tes, iwprov,ee, aed dig . Ui,es. the eontl 1tion of men~
and is, .11Hal to make labor etrecti,:e in all for,ms,, we demaudltba.ta.n nosectariini
oom on-~.l iool ~, ·,t Ht ~ ,h a 11 ·oo maiutidned in e-,··e ry S 'Bite a d Turi • orv ad•~q na te to
gi,re ·t he ,1ui, ..·a nt,ages of edueat ion to ,ever.;y )"OU th of the l:an.d of p.roper 6ehool a,rre ,,
with no discrh11·0 ,'Uo:o a1:,a Jnst ,o r on ~oono_t, t>.f ra .. , c.r:eed, co,l or, or. eoi•dit-ion.. A~d
'WO fa\·or ai,l and cncoura,,g ~ment to ,scboulA, forr i'D,)\ ·rnction iu such :i ndu"t r1.al.
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
KELAT'JIO,N S BETWEE
LAB,OR -AND CAPITAL,
may _l?e· neee.sear to . ~ure t~e hig'l est de,elop-m,e nt e,f the e~parlty of
011r· pen,p l,emul the ·resourroes et t.he eonn'tr:r- ~
ltao~, That . . e favol' ~ ooh ~leg.islat.ion in the tates and by Cong.nJfJB as wlll ad-va.nee. the i:ore:nssts, 8801!U'@ t'he,.r ig6t or a.nd JB _tl,c e tow 110 .a:r . engaged in indus...
trial pomuiu..
B - •olr.,ed, Tbat w I.Hie.w -"'~~1,com · to on r ~horree,·t "he Pnterpris.iing and .iud.ustrio·o.e peopl .• of Emop · who, vo,J nnta:rily choos~ t -o beeo e -~me~can citizentt . ,e Pc-rotest&pinst
6Dforced. pauper ·. migrat ion from (Jtber lands to thi:s, and . e especl.aUy oppose the immi·1__!1'atio.o trero .A.siat1,c countries oif tho : w'iboBe pre-.senoo wu _Id mtrud.u ce cheap,
l.1h0irb - a c-L'lSS uf ,p_
eo:ple .b a\~ing no senti_1nent 1_o, e.o,11unolll • :i.tb An•~ric·a a
11iio11s
~r of· th - 1il.i!!!Di'.it,!t of ,a nd mspeet dne to- t.h ose " ·bo~ t-t1H is ·t he · lli~f ,s on, -e of wealth ..
Rt-M lud t ' . . at _e .are · u 'fav,o r of al· l isbiug·,~hfi prioou ,0on·t ract, 'btboT · .ystiPm,. ~ _'.IHI ·
''" - ,o,p-pose very system of ·p riNn .!ht hor t bat win 't~·llHl. to• 1-e.l uee ihe 11r,• ~ · or ~ HHt; re...
w .a rd& _
o f l bo1\ or ··1u1tair i · dign if:.'t',.
Remleed, T'.ha:, ·w ., are op·~ t1 tu · ' n 1:t. l'li fr for re-ven ,1e only,,: oeea·u e i't will de~
.,f ro_ ~mt.rti ,·a-, ind•L~t-ri -~.ilepriv1e -o nr ·peo~~e °1: ·. lll'p-lo,71neot., redo~ tbe _ a~ o,f
la \lOr·, 1n.t~ne~ aH the _,e ':lls ef 91n ru~~ -1nm11~t1on, d.e:pr1v-e the na~n of &d,'. q1~ate,
w- veil u,e~, 1.mi atr the p11 ·. b lJ<I ered 1.t e n•l: 11.gnr ·tne pay 1n . nt, of t. @ ·p e·m 1.o ns of S4lu.ben..
,an
b,-u
1
,tcnn· ·p~opJe fo-the ,ff•n(litiou. of the starvh~~ ·pop-
aud sailors, .a.nd red11 ·, e nn11!tit11,des
ulation ,o, .· .Europe..
Rnol'rt4" Tb 1t. · ~· d,e
1
1· · d. tl:1P.
-
or t.ht1 \\"1>01 tariff" o,f 1807 ..
r,p,-;f,o ralio
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-·-,c· TlVE' "',ARTnll;l!,
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OPl!UOX OF JUDG. ~ LAWRE,XCE .. .. IRST CO.J.IP'IBOLL K OF' T,H E TJU-: A~,CRY, OX THlt
CONSTIT ~TIONAI..ITY OF A PltOT.BCTI. .. .B TARIF
E
A so IAT'IO·. -~ OF AMERIC'A._ ' Eco .O'll]S,T S,
Waski,ngf;Q-Jt, D. O.. , A1t9 ust 1, 1.883..
,o ne of tbe ablest a:nd ou· . of the best me1J ,o ~ the eountr,·, whose patriotism. is no•·- doubted and ·w hose integrity i•. uoqo · stionable-Sen.ator
Haya.r d-in a lettie- dated Hay ~,, 1883,.
called in question the eoo-..
.stitation - ·] ity o·-· a protective taritf. As he is a prominent, if not ·the
~ost p.~ miueot,, Eae:tern Dem,o oiatic.can.didate for_the Presiden~i&I nom~
i11a.tiou bi . _, utt,e·m-nces on all subjects are entitled to profound :respeet
·;ind. attention. I odeed the,- are so without reference to tlH~ latter fact.a
His. v-ie·,vs are d.oubtl~es ~tltoRe of tbe ,g reat body of the 'D emocratic party;.
lo kis l e'tte·r he sa~,,·s :
The 10,o ~ hDl)f!Jrtaut th~- 111t • tia11 the grea:tert'h c ne~ty io.,dealing '1c_ith ~-t g.rav~y
O 'F P,I CE OF T'HE
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_.a·'!~ werth.1ly
~nd a yth 1n ~"-_hke fineMe or ihe appe;irance,of -~ ~ or tnck l!) dealmg
\1" lth such an issue as ,a, tarfil for rnvenue o.,r a.tan.if for· t .h e prvteetion of ,c ettan~ e la88ie&
,Hf our c:i ·. i1?:.eue w ilI 1,,-reatly weaken the pa~y resortiing to,· it..
·Q uite 1 ud@pend,e nt ,o f the e •on~ , y to t'h e Treasney aud iocid~n,ra,l beneAt to ..lmer•iea~. prodt1Jf:6rR _and m n.ufdc.t urenw, ·:i... ·- ich_~.s to 'be e~cted
_. -_by,a h·i,g,1:ter or lo·_, e1· ·r ate ,o f
ta.riff tna·t1on uJ 1 he more profound q Desi ,1.en. of pobt1cal .n gbt .&Q.d po Pr.r to la~ : .a._ ,Y
)lnbUc bn:rd n npon th. en irt. p 01~le for t'be beneftt or '···pro,·ooc.t··,on ' of 1,,r i v te indi ...
, .. ~dual~.
·1
1
Jf~tbls c.l ··1111 b · atbnht-ed, aa on · of right, · hen pr1. Ue~e.d classes do e%;ist in tbia
~uo, ,tf!f :- and a1.t'hoogh title, ma -_. not be .a llowed 'b_y ~the Conetl't tion ,.~et all the ad,.ant.ages aud pri vi _~:r . or rJ.n will ·· olJt:ainedl · i thou . 't~e .-· me.•.
l · - o·._._, of no ·pos-i.tu:> - · - o,re il'm,p1reaoaJJ]e, ,a;nd npo~. which •it is mo, i · .p o~Dt fOt""
t be D · JnO{!!'._ - ti . , part)" ·_o fi),f Pl 'its Hn@f;. ·· ban tbat pu&ti·c p i~@perty OOR,no.t be take■ for pri.n• te UN· un4u an·g pretQt.
"'f he, ·C outitntion of' th Uni+ · d State - and of cv- Qr ooe of the Stat,e _so unitoo.·p rovl,d es fo:r t.b .. t-akhi_g of private _
p·ro,1, rty for pr1blic d,&e on.l!J· upon be rendition ef
i JUA,t com1• . D83ti o,n " to ·he ov.:--p r - bnt ·n o\\~
here _in th ~ , eowntrv and now here \\~'here
t~ ,-.. ·_ in stit:u tions. b.a. ,.~ · recogni tien. . : t e. SO'\"·e reigu pow - r ta~e pu · Ii~ ~ r t y for
·p rivate use 01r the. pri ,~a t.e pro 1ert ,o f _.\. t.o be 'betfto·\ved upon B, will, or w·itAio•,tf. t oom•1
r
peu•tio-o..
·
- The only ,ground np,n1 \\"bi,ch _a Dy i ud i ,~ id oal ea.n ~ d •-pri ,:eu. of his pro,. ert_,: _i _·10;,
,e.:n · , t th oo:nnunn1t:r, and , I ene,~er· ~·111ch. an mug - ney aru~ · be m~t (und,e r onr
gnu.mu.tees) be Jo .tly ,co,inpeusa. ed.
_
.
_
The Jona e.f the. ex - -_ t,iou 1~ -immateri J-M m _uh so . _, -ibe place.- · ud ,a, tax collected.
1n tb.e interior,, or at, a ma_
n s rea.i,d ence, Of' a;t t.he i,eaport ,01~ entry and Ulldijr · t.arift
la ,:,.--
au.
i .a H t.b e· ,same; a:nd -to be ju~t{flftl. most be ·i • U..name a11ci·fur tfre iure·of the G ,n~er1im -11:t ,11f tbe Gnif-Nl Stat-P.s.
~-·•ise o,r n d m
rect tax ]aw- it
Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml
..2J6:
REL&TIONS .B ETWEEN LABOR A'ND CAPITAL
Witb this pr~neip e. on~ I itld.own th.e rate of ta .ation will be easily m.e aaured. h .·
the pnbbo ,exigP-.neies, and 1eoclt a epec~·-e .a1 ~as ~1ne8file.d at the last ~ • n ,~
~ ~ ~·f a baodfal of men repre1ent-1ng· _pnv.a:te 10.t e,RSts and eonttolling and
molding public lawe of t x.atiio:n to suit t o _-.in'tel'iffilts.-w.iH n vcr·.- pin 'b e tolerated
ll,Y bo111e:-1l public ee.nt imen t..,
1
. n tbis .s.t atement oue obJection i.s urged to a pro'teeti.ve tariff' wiihoot
sayin.g· 't at it goes to its eonstitut10,nali.ty, to ,,. it,, that if the '' political
right· and power to lay ooy public bur,den upon tile entire people· for tbe·
beuetitt. profit or ·'p11Jteetion' of pri,·ate i~_dividn:a ls • • • be ac:1 .
1nitted .as one of right, tb,e n ·p:r i~iJe,:ed. clas:t: •·" do, exist ·i n this conn.try..";
.A.nd the letter saiy s that under· ~nch a -yst,em '' al] the ad.v antag,e s a -.d.
Jt·rivi1leg,e s. of rank win be ,obtained withoat 'the na-me-/'
u this the two pr-on1in nt but both eironeou.s declara,tion,:; are (1 ),
that a.:p·rotective tar!tr 1mpoHe·: a ''publi.e 'b urdmt npun the entire ·people
for tlae benefit • • • _of lri\"a·t e individuals," .-nd (J) t'b.at the _·"',pri~
vate indiVJduals.·' thu:s ben.c·fited Hr ·p.r oteet,e d. eonsti'tute '·'privileged.
,classeB..:"
l,et ns exam in tl1e e idec1ara tions~
l. B.Y ·• 'private individual ," m.u.st be under tood classes. •o r ·p ortions
of tl1,e entire Jl6•pu.lati1on, e ._pec:iallv tho~-e private i.:ndh,"if uals engatred iu
mannfactorin,g.
Now a protecf J\"'e tariff Jias nev·e r been urged ezclwtiJJe~y· o·r churfty for·
t11e benefit of 1nanufa•c tnrers or foT· the sole bei,1efi·. of any partienlar·
pri _a,~ 111.d i,-idoab.~. .Rewe-nue·is g~nerall,y HR object of' a. protective tariff
and. this is e . pend. ecl for th.e benefit of aH tl ,e Jteopl,e But so far as a
JH~-otPcti,·e to1~UI" law· h:as :an obj,e ct additional to re,'l' e nne 1t .bas alwa:y -.
been urged andjns.ti:6 ed on the ground tha;t it would be "for the bene .
lit or )>toteetion of fall tbe] pr· va te indi \:idna] Qf the whole country,
And. u.c h ·h as bee.n the effect~ Tbt .assertion, of course,. 1n olT"ee th>
,10:e .tion, how l1as.·p,r,ot,ecti.on. operated I which is 1n ·_. 'Jair.ge .m easore a
q,H~·s,t1on offact det,e.rminable by th e t!Olldi.ti.on of the ,people·.
If it be neussacy to .sbow thi;., by ewidetUJe .a n.d b,y a~gument,, the ,d iseu · sion mus t be reserved for anoth rr ti -e.. But th.e pohl't whic·h iis o.o w
1n.or,e particnl~r~
ly affirmed is,. that the lfJ:.(J,i tlat • e purpmte· of enacting a
1irotecti,re tariff law has, ., Iways 'b een to beue fir · not ,,, cli s ... s " of '' pri..
·l ate. iodi'viduals" but the whole })Ublie·. ~be point affirmed in. the letter
uuder· <liscossiou is in eftoot that to .a dmit 'the ,c ons,t itntional power to
euac a p,r oteetive tari« . a · is to say ·t hat. the l.egista-tive P'Wf'JIOl'fJ•of su,c h
taw i,s to benefit, ·p rofit, or protect ,ome priv.a te individuals-rather than.
the ·w·bole J>Ublie. An alJe,g ation ,o f this obaraeter .requires m.o re ·t han
. es pl!OO·f.· _ Th~.e o,n.us ,o f. , pro,n..ng 1.t•
. 1s,
. .o•n tb
as·,i m~t..on; 1~ _ requtr,
·-'. ·p arty w h.o
asserts it. No socb proof is offered. It mB;y ·b e safely asse:r ted that it,
-·".on
,.. ·.w·h·ch
·. !..,+ ·b.·e. pro
·d·
iz.,; s _mere a,~~nm.pti
_, 1, •Mn e·rro
.. ..1,
I.: ·_ cq·
. • nno
. . .·· . ·e.-.
II. It IS equally ,e,r1~onoous to as .ert t~ia t und ·_f' J)rotooti.ve tari·t r legisJation u p,r i _·1eged: classes do •~.x i·-t :i n this ,conn try.."
What is a. pri~ileg·ed ela&t I Jt 1s a portion or· t ·b e 1,eo.p le for whom
tb.e law ·pro · ide · so:me privile.g e, right, benefit, or immuni ;y, which the
law d,eDie ·. to all otbers.. l\-ben tbe la µil es all an equal ch.a.nee there
u;;, ,eq.uality· l~fare the law.. No,w no proteetive ta.riff. law ba ·. ·p rovi,d ed a
.p ·ri·vileg-e for an,:r ma. n, or ,c lass of .m en, •'hic'h i'' d,e nied to- any· ,o ther
man ,or elas8 of men. Every· ,citiz·e n of the 'U nited 8.tates bas. always
had., and nov." has, .- right to .ava:fl himself' of the bene.t it •o f every protective law.. All wbo choose can, on. equal terms, eu1bark io -·· ny bosi
ne-ss.aifeoted b:Ytariff legislation~ . ·t is ·not: at all correct 'to sa_y, then,
that under a ·p roteeti _•·· tariff la,v tl1 ,re is any privileged.class OT classes~.
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RELAT.IONF; .BETWEEN LA.BOR A
1
:rn
,C APITAL,
217
If it be said that only tla.ose engaged. in. man·ofaetn:ring· are benefited
:!s~ro:"f:i;!J:.itf
l~ffeti~:.-!
:!3~::::3':yti:n~lt
~e~~:ti~~
Bu.t if only manufacturers are benefiteil this is no o·bjeetion to such
legi:glatioo,, whe-.n no other. c]a·. ..·. , is inJnred bJ-"" ·it.. .A nd,, in. any eve·1tt1
11earl. a]l I ·gislaoon benefit . some class The 'lawil which gav,e far.m en,
~, right to own lands· and exclude e~ery oue el,se·from the po. session and
u·.·.e of tbem, . xeept by- conseut of tb,e o,wners,, is, in one ,sense., •class,
1.e,gislation.. I am a-farmer, more deepl,y intere .ted in tb~ ownership,
c:llltivatio~.,. and nse. of ,and than in all other objects _combined,., We .
ba\"ie legisla; ion 'i.o oor faT7or. All the lands-O•· .n.e rs ,o f the · , nited Stat.es
•_re a, -class. of people,. and. ,· s ro tb.e ir lands th.e y enjoy ao e - elusive
pri.vile·ge, We can manufacture if w•e wish, bot m.a nufactn;r ers cannot
farm o- r lauds if they wiBh.. ·.·. ,e t,·,r.oold any man re1,eal all la·. ·. s for the
protootioo of I .·n d titles and. the po .·. , .· ssion of lauds ~,
'T be school laws beneftt cla·' '· · .. of people a.n d give p1i'vileges lfhich
all cannot enjoy; bot would .a n:y statesman for this reasou abolis.b
schools : Th . object ·o f all legisla'l;ion is to benefit .somebody·,. It eee·mA,
J.ik.e a .- trange object:o·o to · law that i·t will benefit peopl,Rm The letter ·nuder consideration .gra-v,ely a.rrai , 11,s. protective tariff
J,e gisla'tioa .,·_.· ·unconstitoti.on.al because it. ta·kes .pub.lw.prnperly· for pri~
i,,ite use~ This is not tbe. exact form. of espre,ssw,n used, ·b ut it 1s the
.: ffect of w·h at is said,! else what is the sigoifi,ca:n ce of the words'' 'IJl·,a t
public p·rope.rty cannot ,be· tal"ffl for :,,r ~tau,-use.·u u·der a,iy pretext·."
· ,g ain. it may ·t ,e saicl tha.t he who .. · :erts a co truverted .P'Mpo ,ition
sh.ou.1d. oWe·r some proof of it. . ertaioly it i •. nots .o•, ,n how .a protective. ta.riff law 'bas. e·ver taken ,o r e,rer can take pn"blic property fo·r p·r i ·, 1a:te use. lo the ab•.euoo of an3 e·.· ;•·d enoo in support of' so.ch complaint
it m·ay be assumed that i ,, is n·n lbunded.
There are laws and wise law,s · -bi,ch d.o tak,e public prop rty for p -iTate use, because the ·. result io public benefit. Pn.b lie . .·oneyisapp~
priated for t~be p,rivat,e nse and ·b enf.Ji't of the childre·o io the pobHc
schools. , Will any one objoot to tbi1s -~ Pu.b lic money is.ap_pr-0:p riated to
buil.d · . p the levees of th . , l -·•,i.ssi·ppi Riv:er to s.a,ve from ruin pri·vate·
pr,o perty· and pre . ·~·rv,e, a D.avigable .r iver for the public.. Is this, obJec~
tion.abl, ·. because it benefits.,clasRe> . or take public money for private:
nse .. What legisla'lioo ,e xists tha·t does ·no.. beneft·t some ,elass I .A nd
.s hall all such be repea.l.ed ! -~- milr:oa,d cha,rter gi:i ,e ;. to ._·_ class an ex•ten,s:ive privilege.. Shall t~.e p·o blic do with.~ nt railwaJs, 'b ecause they
.·r,e· built by cla~ses.! Such charter gi·v:es public propt:rl!I' for a pri.v at :
use-for tbe. franchise is prope·rty, and it is gi.v·en b·•· pnbli,e ao.tboritv~
Yet shal.l a11I such franchises. be ,d ,e nied l1eea-a se they give pu'bli.c pror,~
erty for private ose ,
~
1
I\7 .. A
p ·g o,1 Eor1VE TARJFP
LAW
is
CoN -. TIT .. ~IONAL.
The letter u:n,d er con -id ~rati.on assi_g u no reason in support of tb~
objection i.t ma'kes,. be;yond w t bas bee.n con1sidered.. I _ is mot n.nw
iute,o ded to present a fuU ar,gu.·m ent in support of the proposition stated
above. On,ly a few poin·t s w1H be br.ie:t ly p,resented
Tbe ~onstit1iLion provides tha.t '' the. Oon,gres~ shall 'l•ave power to
regulaf1' .com1nerc,e, w:ith foreign n .·· tions,, an.d am,on.g tbe se,~ S.t.atieB,
. . d. w1.·th ,,' he l. n d_1a
.,. .n tr•
ai.. re·.
an
_. ·11,..._....
~s.1' (.Art
· · ·-~ , gilille,·_ C,. s·_• ): 'T. _,hi
.·. "' 8
_, .,
, · .· ...""'
tu Co,,
. 0 50'1"W¥:Cll
.. ----"'
the power ·t o e:o aet ~ Jlrotecetiv·e tariff law.
1~ The 8111•reme Collrt bas so dec]ared~ Tbus in. G-i.bboos, 1'1' . ·O gden
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218
llELA.TIO ·S BETWEE ,_ LABOR. AND CA:' JTAL.
{'9 Wbeaton, 196) the eonrt, referring to the cl.a u .·e o-f ·t he Constitution.
abo·v e quoted, say:
th"'
Whal is ·t hia ,po:wer. I It is th~ po ,e _· _to regu.la _~·. t'.b ti ,. ta. p ~ ~·
mle b·,
which eom·merce. 1s w,be gov,emed.. Thie power b . e all ot-hera y·eRtedJ. ·m ,C ougreu ..
11e _,.plea • · ifN,l f, ru.g &e .ez . rot " to, ,it3· MHMDBt .t flle.t, ~Hid a I newledgee wo. .fnaitatiotl •
otber·lhan am pmecrihed in th · Con .t~ ution. ·• ~ · I£. as 'has alway■ been 11n...
de ,·.,t,ooa,, tAe ~eign:ty ,o f Co■•gf't!A~' tbou•fi'll Ib - ·i· ed to spec.Hi -· o .de.ct , i:s p'/,P«-rM· B-l·
'la tAOaO ol>joct,, ·t he po er ov (I' -oo.mmeree i th foreign nationa ao.d ajm ong the se·.vera I
State• is v·e&ted. m Con - . . as absob1t ·l y a - it Wf!iold be hr, a ,_ in,g l · go,~emme1ru .
Ila . i·r_1g in. i.ta oonst!tut~on ·t-be .s ame !eetr.··~t i~d 011, ·t1he _• x ·rei . .nf_·tb~ ~'!-_
! · as _or .
found to he Uonet1tot o.n of the United State -the wutdom .· nd the «~etw.a of C-0,:1;
Y"M. . ·t heir jd@ntit.,y with 'the poop _ , and ·t he inftnence wb:i b ·t heir ,t.on1titu.e n - ~~
_•_ · t elections are , in tlil, as in man . · ,o,t _b t" u1s,t ances--u that, for example of de:clarin, .· w,a r~th·e ~oft JTatraiJt-ts on w llich they ha·, e relied to ;.;cure t:b&r111. from. bn ·.
1
Here the Sop.reme ,C oortd,ee]:•res i · effect that ·t he kind o'f'a ta.rift~ Jaw
whi,c h Oongres8 m -y enact, whether '' for rm1enue onl11', or .for reven 1 .
and.proteetioa,, 1!., olely i.o th di· ·e retion ,o f Oo .g ress "
_
In the •ea&e of ~he ·u ited States]• ·•M._ :rieo1.d (9 HowaNJ, 566). the Su •
1
preme Court ,M id:
,ee
v · _ted .ith the llO .. er to re_ late · , 1nm-E; -ee · 1 t 'I!.
ft.N.i p na·t .i ons; and, bow,ever at periods of excdimient; an -a.p pli eatiion of the ·t.enu ·
•• . - gulate eommerce,1 , · euob as w·onl<'.I. emhrae _· ,absolMt:e pmlfbitfo•: may liave 'b een
qiieatio ed:, ye·t, ,s ines tbe p ,-_ ._. or the ,e ab· rgo, and· ••...i•t.eroo.rae ~aw,., attcl tle t""t:"·g reM ;are:ll b . t-~ . Oon1t1t.Qtion
pmlld jmicial, ,n,ction, _t·A1ose .1tat•k-f Aa.t:e retrired, it cau scarce] , a .: t'hj day, ~ open
t-0 doub1t ·t hat ev,e ry aabject fal lin ·~ w jtb'io tb . le .~'timate epber-e ,o f ,com·me.r,c · al re.g o.lation ma, 1M ,ariiaHy ,o,•· whollJ' acl uled: wh1eh ,either. meunre _baH. be aeman.d e4 b.,
th ,safety or ly :d e i_ :JWrtarn 1nteNEJt.s of t·h e en Lire, , at~on. Soeh e1:clu&ioo. ,c annot bt:'lm1ted to partiew_lar era,., or desc ·p·t ione of oommeRial &objec. , ; it may em.b raet
M4J1-.fact.ra, bullion, eou1, o.,r . ·BJ"" o~ner thing~ Tlle power o · .· ,e oncede.il, ·1 t ma,.
,o perate on any· and ev, ry - ai'bject of commeroo to which IAe·~laJi:r;e aisenffolt mr•y
apply it.
1
There.are many other :. ··- · s v .hie:b may ~ cited, all supporting the
opinion. ·t ba .. Congress. has pow·e·r to .··nact a protectiv.·:_· tari'if. When
· -lie Snpretne Oonrt ·b ~ . ·. o ,decidecl, th.at 11bo11ld be the end of oontro~
1
v:ersy•
., .. -The ·p ower of' Cou.!?.'f:ess to ena.c. a pr-oteeti.v .- tan I' Jaw exh;.t, ·, 'be cause 'its power to nagnlat· . oo•mmen.-e is ,g1v·e n ·~• unlim."'ted term,·. It i _
not a power to r-egulate com: erce lim1te<1 to, lev: ing duties/or re-oen11e,.
It ts a 011i'vers -1 rul,e, . npported by many ant ,o rities, that. a pow r gi.v eu
in general term ·. u1 · y be excrc . se 1 · 'be discretion of the· legislature..
3, 'T .he Uonsti'tut1on i · to be read i.n t ,e Ji.- bt of' bi.story.. B ·fore it~
a . Iop,tiou the Bri't~sh ··arlia.m·eo1 Jl&ss .<I law,·., to prot . ·. ~t and enco·o·r a _-~
n11an11fact uresi.n Engl.-: nd, ··nd l:od~.soonrage n1an11t:aetures in tbeooloni ·•· •
lt'i- , unre_· -ooabl,e to RUppose t.bat the peo11,Je of th 1St.ates.,, when .mak111g a Constitot·.o,u, d:id 11ot intend "t:ha.t- Congress ·. bonld. ·h a,·e a , · 10uch
1~ower as Par1iam -n - to bnil,d np an,d p,roteet ·1Haunfactnres.. ··. n · otbe·..·
oo,nd1:tion wou](l J,e a .,e Parli .· n1entarm.ed with fMJ\V · ·r to, ruin our ."ndu~ ·t ri , nd Oon.gre s with no Jtow · o · ~ talia~
4~ Tho ·e w,.ho fa· -or a taritt., for re,~ ·. nue on·l r concede that it may be · .•'O
'framed a. to affo,r d .~acidmtal protectio,i, Yet it .eems to 1ollo ·: f the
po er exists to afford. in,cid ,ntal protecti.on rt m13,_. 'be. ·provided for tli~
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nct·l y . .
5.. . tariff for revenue an,d protee · ·ion is t.be. usual : O' 1n i_11 ·which a.1.l
nations ba·ve ·t hrough c ntnries I vi~, , <lot.ie_ The framers of' our Co
M itnti,on kn.· w th'is, and..gave Co ·gre
@FedFRASER