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ROYAL MEEKER, Commissioner



No. 2 4 7


N. Y ., M A Y 9, 10, AND 11, 1918






Opening remarks by the chairman, Ralph G. Wells, assistant chief employment
manager, E. I. du Pont de Nemours & Co., Wilmington, Del......................
Roland B. Woodward, secretary, Rochester Chamber of Commerce, Roches­
ter, N. Y ..................................................................................................
7, 8
Capt. Boyd Fisher, Ord. R. C., supervisor, Government courses, Wash­
ington, D. C............................................................................................. 8-10
W. H. Winans, employment manager, National Carbon Co., Cleveland,
Ohio...................................................................................... %................
Training of factory health officers, by Dr. Kristine Mann, health supervisor,
Industrial Service Section, Women’s Branch, Ordnance Department,
Washington, D .C ........................................................................................... 11-15
Dale G. Steely, general superintendent, W. F. Schrafft & Sons (Inc.),
Boston, Mass.....................................................................................
Robert L. Wilson, assistant general superintendent, Westinghouse
Electric & Manufacturing Co., East Pittsburgh, Pa.......................... 15,16
G. L. Sullivan, employment manager, Worthington Pump & Machinery
Corporation, East Cambridge, Mass................................................. .
Mr. Lang, of the Crown Motor Co., Muskegon, Mich.............................
Government course for training employment managers, by Prof. Meyer Jacobstein, of the University of Rochester.............................................................. 19-24
Presentation of diplomas to graduates of War Emergency Course in Employment
Management, University of Rochester..................................................... « ... 25-27
T H U R S D A Y , M A Y 9 , 1918— A F T E R N O O N SE SS IO N .

Absenteeism, by S. R. Rectanus, director of employment, The American
Rolling Mill Co., Middletown, Ohio................................................................ 28-35
Standardization of occupations and rates of pay, by Walter D. Steams, secre­
tary, occupation and rate committee, Westinghouse Electric &, Manufacturing
Co., East Pittsburgh, Pa................................................................... ............ 36-42
Cof-t of living studies as a basis for making wage rates, by Royal Meeker, United
Plates Commissioner of Labor Statistics, Washington, D. C......................... 43-50
I estructive labor recruiting, by William Blackman, director of labor, Shipping
Board, Washington, D. C................................................................................ 51-54
L'estructive labor recruiting, by Charles T. Clayton, assistant director general,
United States Employment Service, Washington, D. 0................................. 55-62
The ].resent labor situation, by Morris L. Cooke, of the Emergency Fleet Cor­
poration, Washington, D. 0 . . . ........................................................................ 63-65




General discussion:
Dr. Royal Meeker, United States Commissioner of Labor Statistics, Wash­
ington, D. C........................................................................ 66-71, 74, 79, 82, 83
Capt. Boyd Fisher, Ord. R. C., supervisor, Government courses, Wash­
ington, D. C.............................................................................................71, 72
Ethelbert Stewart, chief statistician, United States Bureau of Labor Sta­
tistics, Washington, D. C......................................................................... 72,73
Henry T. Noyes, treasurer, Art in Buttons (Inc.), Rochester, N. Y ............
Mr. Elliott, of Boston, Mass........................................................................ 74T, 75
Peter J. Van Geyt, employment manager, Rochester, N. Y ......................
F. W. Burrows, editor, National Industrial Conference Board, Boston,
Mass......................................................................................................... 75, 76
H. E. Parker, employment manager, Fore River Plant, Bethlehem Ship­
building Corporation, Quincy, Mass........................................................
Dudley R. Kennedy, industrial manager, American International Ship­
building Corporation, Hog Island, Philadelphia, Pa.............................. 76,77
Charles T. Clayton, assistant director general, United States Employment
Service, Washington, D. C............................................. 77, 79, 80, 81, 84, 85, 88
Charles B. Barnes, director, Bureau of Employment, New York City........
Robert L. Wilson, assistant general superintendent, Westinghouse Electric
& Manufacturing Co., East Pittsburgh, Pa..............................................78, 79
Mark M. Jones, supervisor of personnel, Thos. A. Edison Industries,
Grange, N. J............................................................................................
W. H. Winans, employment manager, National Carbon Co., Cleveland,
Ohio.......... .*............................................................................................ 80,81
L. Palmer, of Buffalo, N. Y ........................................................................
L. S. Tyler, vice president, Acme Wire Co., New Haven, Conn...............
P. W. Kinney, employment manager, Gleason Works, Rochester, N. Y ... 83,84
S. P. Hall, employment manager, Morgan Engineering Co., Alliance,
Jacob Lightner, director, employment bureau, Pennsylvania Department
oi Labor and Industry, Harrisburg, Pa................................................... 85, 86
Alfred Thompson, employment manager, American Brake-Shoe & Foundry
Co., Erie, Pa............................................................................................ 87, 88
F R I D A Y , M A Y 10, 1918—M O R N I N G SE SS IO N .

Management of foreign-born workmen, by Helen Baron, director, Mayor’s
Americanization Committee of Cleveland, Ohio............................................ 89-95
Dr. Winthrop Talbot, adviser in alien education, New York State
Bureau of Industries and Immigration............................................. 97-99
Ralph G. Wells, assistant chief employment manager, E. I. du Pont de
Nemours & Co., Wilmington, Del.................................... ................
Capt. Boyd Fisher, Ord. R. C., supervisor, Government courses,
Washington, D. C.............................................................................
Psychology of tlie Negro workingman, extemporaneous statement by Eugene
Kinckle Jones, executive secretary, National League on Urban Conditions
Among Negroes, New York City.................................................................. 101-105
Standards for woman employees, by Hugh Fullerton, service director, H. Black
& Co., Cleveland, Ohio............................................................................... 106-111





Classification of personnel in the Army, by Mark M. Jones, supervisor of per­
sonnel, Thos. A. Edison Industries, Orange, N. J ..................................... 112 -118
Women in industry, by H. E. Miles, chairman Section on Industrial Training
for the War Emergency, Council of National Defense, Washington, D. C- - 119-129
Job analysis, by H. G. Kobick, superintendent of employment, Common­
wealth Edison Co., Chicago, 111.................................................................. 130,131
Job analysis, by P. J. Nilsen, of Arthur Young & Co., Chicago, 111............... 132-134
The Rochester plan, by James T. Hutchings, of Rochester, N. Y ................. 135-137
Mr. Hutchings......................................................................................
W. H. Winans, employment manager, National Carbon Co., Cleveland,
Ohio..................................,........................................................... 138,139
Charles B. Barnes, director, Bureau of Employment, New York
City........................................................................................ 139,140,141
A. A. Doucet, employment manager, Laclede-Christy Clay Products
Co., St. Louis, Mo.............................................................................
Ralph G. Wells, assistant chief employment manager, E. I. du Pont
de Nemours & Co., Wilmington, Del................................................
Herbert E. Herrod, president, Mahoning Valley Employers’ Associa­
tion, Youngstown, Ohio....................................................................
Capt. Boyd Fisher, Ord. R. C., supervisor, Government courses,
Washington, D. C................. ......................................................... 141,142
Dr. Winthrop Talbot, adviser in alien education, Bureau of Industries
and Immigration........................................................................... 143,145
Meyer Bloomfield, head of Industrial Service Department, Emergency
Fleet Corporation, Washington, D. C............................................ 144,145
F R I D A Y , M A Y 10, 1 9 1 8 -E V E N I N G S E S S IO N —B A N Q U E T .

Outline of a national labor policy, by Ordway Tead, of the Bureau of Industrial
Research, Washington, D. C....................................................................... 148-155
Problems of industrial management, by Meyer Bloomfield, head of Industrial
Service Department, Emergency Fleet Corporation, Washington, D. C___156-159
Labor program of the Department of Labor, by Hon. William B. Wilson,
Secretary, United States Department of Labor, Washington, D. C............. 160-171
Educational aspect of the national labor policy, by Charles A. Prosser, of the
Federal Board for Vocational Education, Washington, D. C...................... 172-177
S A T U R D A Y , M A Y 11, 1918—M O R N I N G S E S S IO N .

General discussion:
Dr. Royal Meeker, United States Commissioner of Labor Statistics,
Washington, D. C................................................................................. 179,186
Mr. Davis, of the Retail Dry Goods Stores’ Association of New York---- 178,179
L. S. Tyler, vice president, Acme Wire Co., New Haven, Conn...............
Capt. Boyd Fisher, Ord. R. C., supervisor, Government courses, Wash­
ington, D. C.................................................................................. 180,193,194
W. H. Winans, employment manager, National Carbon Co., Cleveland,
Ohio.................................................................... 182, 185,187,188,189,191, 193
Alexander Fleisher, superintendent, welfare division, Metropolitan Life
Insurance Co., New York City............................................................. 185,186



General discussion—Concluded.
A. A. Doucet, employment manager, Laclede-Chnsty Clay Products Co..
St. Louis, Mo........................................................................................ 189,190
Mr. Hewitt.................................................................................... . ........
Dr. E. B. Gowin, of the New Y ork University School of Commerce, Accounts,
and Finance, New York City..................................................................
S. 11. Rectanus, director of employment, The American Rolling Mill Co.,
Middletown, Ohio................................................................................. 193,194
Utilisation of men past the prime of life, by Victor T. J. Gannon, manager,
Employers’ Association of Chicago, Chicago, 111......................................... 197-199
Industrial restoration of disabled men a conservation of power, by Charles H.
Winslow, of the Federal Board for Vocational Education, Washington, D.C.. 200-202
S A T U R D A Y , M A Y 11, 1918—A F T E R N O O N S E S S IO N .

General discussion:
Ralph G. Wells, assistant chief employment manager, E. I. du Pont de
Nemours & Co., Wilmington, Del............................................................
W. H. Winana, employment manager, National Carbon Co., Cleveland,
Ohio............................................................................................... 203,204,205
S. R. Rectanus, director of employment The American Rolling Mill Co.,
Middletown, Ohio...................................................................................
H. G. Kobick, superintendent of employment, Commonwealth Edison Co.,
Chicago, 111...................................... ......................................................
Roy W. Kelly, director, Bureau of Vocational Guidance, Harvard Uni­
versity, Cambridge, Mass.............................................................. 206, 207, 208
Wilson C. Maston, of the Eastman Kodak Co., Rochester, N. Y .................
Dr. Royal Meeker, United States Commissioner of Labor Statistics, Wash­
ington, D. C......................................................................................... 208, 209
A. A. Doucet, employment manager, Laclede-Christv Clay Products Co.,
St. Louis, Mo.........................................................*............................. 209,211
Ethelbert Stewart, chief statistician, United States Bureau of Labor
Statistics, Washington, D. C................................................................. 209,210
Capt. Boyd Fisher, Ord. R. C., supervisor, Government courses, Wash­
ington, D. C.................... .......................................................................
C.M. Brading,superintendent of safety, Wisconsin Steel Co., Chicago, 111. 211, 212
Maintenance of existing labor standards during the War, by Mrs. Clara M. Tead,
supervisor, Women’s Branch, Ordnance Department, Washington, D. C ... 214-219
Mrs. Tead........................................................................ ......... 219, 220, 221
Capt. Boyd Fisher.............................................. ....................... 220, 221, 223
Mrs. Anne Hedges Talbot, of the New York State Education Depart­
ment, Albany, N. Y ................................................................... ......
Robert L. Wilson, assistant general superintendent, Westinghouse
Electric & Manufacturing Co., East Pittsburgh, Pa..........................
Adolph F. Seubert, assistant superintendent, National Malleable
Castings Co., Toledo, Ohio................................................................
Appendix A.—Labor turnover schedules of the U. S. Bureau of Labor Sta­
tistics.......................................................................................................... 224-227
Appendix B.—Register of delegates at conference........................................ 228-249

U .

S .


NO. 247.







January, id 9 .

ROCHESTER, N. Y., MAY 9, 10, AND 11, 1918.

[The meeting was called to order at 10 o’clock a. m. by the chair­
The C hairm an . Before we call the meeting to order I would sug­
gest that we get acquainted. One of the greatest values of a confer­
ence of this nature is the acquaintanceship of the fellow who has the
same problems that you have. I am going to suggest that you make
yourself known to the men on both sides of you and in front of you.
Get so well acquainted that you remember each other not only during
the entire convention but for the coming year’s time.
Before introducing the secretary of the Rochester Chamber of
Commerce, I want to say that there will be considerable informality
about this conference and about our program. We want to get down
to work and get some real value out of this discussion and out of
meeting with each other. Figuratively speaking, we are here 44with
our coats off,” and are going to get down and 44dig in ” for the next
few days, so we can accomplish something and each man will go
back with more than he has carried from any other conference.
I take pleasure is introducing as the first speaker on the program.
Mr. Roland B. Woodward, secretary of the Rochester Chamber of
Commerce, whose hospitality we are enjoying.
R oland B. W oodward, secretary Rochester (N. Y.) Chamber of
Commerce. I told Capt. Fisher that I would do what I thought was
unnecessary—tell you in the name of the chamber of commerce
and of the city of Rochester that you were welcome here in Rochester.
I hope your conference will not only be pleasant but exceedingly




profitable. The country needs the most intelligent service on the part
of men and women in your particular jobs. It needs not only expert
knowledge but vision; and I am sure that your knowledge will be in­
creased and your vision enlarged by this exchange of ideas and this
conference together here in Rochester. We hope that you will find
your stay a pleasant one, and if there is any service which can be
rendered by the Rochester Chamber of Commerce, you have but to
command it.<
The C h airm an . I am sure we all appreciate the hearty welcome
that has been given us, and I am going to ask Capt. Boyd Fisher,
who you all know is chairman of the program committee, to ex­
press to Mr. Woodward and the Rochester Chamber of Commerce
our appreciation of their cordial hospitality; and also to explain to
you the details of the program for the coming three days. It gives
me great pleasure to introduce Capt. Fisher.
Capt. B oyd F isher , Ord. R. C., Washington, D. C. There were
both an announced reason and certain reserved reasons in my mind
for persuading the national committee of the Employment Managers’
Association to change their meeting from Cleveland on May 30 to
Rochester on May 9. The announced reason was the desire to have
the convention celebrate and criticize the first employment manage­
ment course established at the University of Rochester as well as
the first established under Government supervision. The reserved
reasons included a knowledge of the ability of the chamber of com­
merce to house any convention and also the other excellent facilities
of the Rochester Chamber of Commerce, and the splendid organiza­
tion which Mr. Woodward has assembled and which is competent to
handle all arrangements of the largest convention that the town will
hold. I have in mind, too, the industrial spirit of Rochester, and
the atmosphere of this town, which, to my way of thinking, has so
far got along best with the labor problem under the stress and strain
of war. Rochester is the “ top-notch” city in the handling of its
labor problems to-day; and you can not be here three days without
learning something of what it has accomplished. And so, on behalf
of the convention, Mr. Woodward, w^e wish to thank the chamber
of commerce for permitting us to meet here and to brin^ this fine
body of people into contact with Rochester’s labor problem and its
In a sense this is a celebration. It is a celebration of what the
University of Rochester has done for the Government in establish­
ing the first course for employment managers, at the request of the
Government; and it is a celebration, on the other hand, of govern­
mental recognition of the professional status of the *employment
manager. The year has brought changes in the status of the em­



ployment people, men and women. Many of our problems have
been rendered acute this year. You may recall it was at our last
convention at Philadelphia a year ago that we were thrilled, and at
the same time somewhat shocked, by the announcement at our ban­
quet that the President of the United States had just read to the
Congress a message calling the country to war. That was a call to
our soldiers, and it was especially a call to our employment people.
We have learned—we had learned before we entered the war—that
this was an industrial war, a war of machines. We had long had
the view that American industry was perhaps the most efficient in­
dustry in the world, not excepting Germany. We rather had that
view, and we called upon it pretty strongly when we entered the
war. Now, we submit, is the time to prove that we have that flexi­
bility, that ability to standardize, that ability to change and to adapt
ourselves and yet to work close to limits, that ability to train workers
in new lines of work, which will enable American industry speedily
to win the war. It is not idle boasting—we are not talking to any­
body else, we are talking with our group, without any intention to
boast—when we say that upon American employment managers rests
the burden of a proper selection of the men who are to carry on
American industry. Therefore the effort made at our first conven­
tion last year to get us together along new lines made us aware of
the importance of the employment manager’s job, and presented to
us the problems that we are here to-day to discuss.
am very happy that I was permitted by the Departments in
Washington for which I am working, to serve as chairman of the
program committee. I feared at first that it would seem a bit ir­
regular, but I have been privileged to express the point of view
somewhat of the different Departments which I am serving, in mak­
ing up this program. I came near printing on the program this
caution with regard to speakers, that you should remember that
most of our speakers represent Government Departments and that
they are at the call of their Departments and that we are likely to
have more changes and disappointments with regard to speakers it
this conference than usual. I don’t recall that we had any last year,
but we are likely to have several at this convention. I finally decided
not to print it upon the program because I did not want to put a
premium upon changes; I did not want to encourage changes on the
part of officials, changes which I feel sure may not come. There are
some changes, however, which are unavoidable. Dean Schneider
can not possibly come, nor can Prof. Walter Dill Scott, head of the
committee on classification and personnel. However, we purposely
made the program full in order that we should have plenty of good
material even in case of disappointment. I hope you will accept
changes in good temper and will believe that no name has been put



upon the program without the acceptance of the person named—it
is not a tentative program so far as acceptances are concerned—and
that any changes made are the result of the exigencies of the Admin­
istration in Washington.
With regard to the “ round table discussion” this evening, and
with regard to the program generally, I may say that so far as I
know this convention is absolutely free from any “ cooked u p ’r
scheme. There are no resolutions drafted. There is no political
scheme afoot. No one has tried to express in advance the temper of
this convention; no one is organizing it into any purpose; no one is
aiming at any office from this association; I am sure of that.
The C h airm an . Before announcing the first speaker, we will at­
tend to one or two technical details. As you know; at the last con­
ference there was formed a National Committee of Employment
Managers’ Associations. That committee consisted of one repre­
sentative from each of the then authorized associations, and I am
going to introduce the Cleveland representative of that committee,
Mr. Winans, to make an announcement regarding the meeting of the
national committee; and also to make an announcement to repre­
sentatives of other associations who are not yet members of the na­
tional committee. I take pleasure in introducing Mr. Winans, of
Cleveland, Ohio.
W . H. W in an s , employment manager, National Carbon Co., Cleve­
land, Ohio. The national committee would like to have an informal
meeting at the close of the afternoon session. The representatives of
the New York, Rochester, Chicago, Newark, Cleveland, Philadel­
phia, and Boston Associations have all been appointed. Any official
representatives of these associations are requested to meet with the
officers immediately at the close of the afternoon session at Mr.
Booth’s office. Any representatives of other associations which have
been formed since the last annual meeting—I understand that Buf­
falo and other cities have organized—who can attend that meeting
for an informal discussion of business details that should come up
at this time, we would like to have them present there also.

The C h airm an . The subject of our afternoon’s discussion, “ Train­
ing labor executives,” includes within its scope the training of women
for various work in the handling of female help. For the training
in hygiene of women charged with the care of female help in fac­
tories, the Ordnance Department of the War Department has es­
tablished a course for health officers in factories. Dr. Kristine
Mann, of the Woman’s Division of the Ordnance Department, will
give us a detailed description of this course.




I do not pretend to understand the problems of factory or employ^
ment management on their financial or technical sides. My ap­
proach is from the human side. But when I say this I do not mean
that I am an “uplifter.” In my extensive contact with the industrial
woman for a number of years, it has seemed to me that uplifting was
really not what was needed.
Nevertheless, I do believe that if industry utilizes woman power
in such a way as to cause physical deterioration, it has harmed
rather than benefited the community, no matter what may be its
record for economic productivity. The most obvious measuring
rod of the success with which industry is using women to maintain
or increase output will be the women’s continued good physical
Yet, although my approach has been from the angle of the physical
well-being of the woman, I do not believe there would be any diffi­
culty in showing precise money losses from ill health, and the only
reason such losses have not been extensively tabulated in dollars and
cents is because everybody admits them so freely. Absentee lists, bad
timekeeping, and large turnover are all connected up with a factory’s
health problem, while well-kept hospital records show how much the
petty illnesses of employees actually decrease output.
The trouble is that these losses are regarded as necessary. Many
employers take the attitude that people (particularly women) simply
are sick from time to time because that is the way they are made.
Our standards of productivity are defined at present by low stand­
ards of good health. I f all industrial women maintained unbroken
records of good health and felt continuously well, our day, I venture
to say, could be shortened to seven hours and output kept up.
There is then no use in emphasizing the cost of illness to a firm.
We should rather stress the fact that 75 per cent of these illnesses,
among women at least, might be eliminated if the conditions of life
of the workers could be made more hygienic within and without the
Of course, I admit that I am speaking without carefully tabulated
statistics. When I first took'charge of the hospital of an industrial



plant employing 2,000 men and women, I gathered figures to show
these points.
I found I could practically prove from figures that there was a
great deal of illness, and that about 75 per cent of this illness was
due to unhygienic conditions of. life.
But I could never prove by facts (and I don’t believe it is sus­
ceptible of that kind of proof) that the money expended in improv­
ing hygienic conditions would, cent for cent, more than balance that
lost by illness, and since a chain of evidence is as strong as its* weakest
link, I could not hope to carry my point by figures.
What is needed in this instance is not complete proof but common
sense. How can it be expected that a young woman will work ef­
fectively and with unbroken time if she is undernourished; if she
takes no interest in her own health, but lives on pickles and sweets;
if she is kept at work for such long hours that she does not fully
recuperate at night, but fatigue accumulates; if she sits or stands
in the same position eight or nine hours a day and gets no exercise
or play in the evening to counteract the effect of monotony of pos­
ture; and if she is admitted without physical examination and
placed from the first in a job that is too heavy for her?
In order to increase the productivity of a factory by decreasing
illness, the living conditions of the workers must be hygienic. This
1. Hygienic factory conditions:
(a) Good ventilation, lighting, protection from the health hazards
of fumes and poisons.
(b) Hours of labor within the capacity of the worker.
(c) Physical examination on entrance, not only to detect disease,
but to estimate physical power and suitability to job.
(cl) Good lunch rooms, adequate wTashrooms, etc.
(e) Suitable uniforms for the women.
(/) Skillful medical care in the case of illness.
2. Hygienic home conditions:
(a) Wages sufficiently large to enable the worker to maintain
wholesome living conditions—good food and clothing, enough recre­
ation, etc.
(b) Adequate transit and housing accommodations.
And on whom does the responsibility rest for maintaining these
conditions? When examined closely, we see right away that the
employer can not be made solely responsible. He can supply a
lunch room; but the employee must choose his own menu. The em­
ployer can supply or help supply houses; but the employees’ wives
must run them. He can supply caps; but the employees must re­
member to wear them. The employee must in the nature of things
be responsible for the amount of sleep he gets, the food he eats, the



recreation and exercises he takes. Of course, he can not regulate his
life if his hours of work are too long, and if his wages are utterly
inadequate. Long hours are bad, not so much on account of what
they do to a man as on account of what they prevent him from doing
for himself. The problem of health is then one of cooperation of
management and employee in the interests of greater productivity.
The health problem could be scheduled and its responsibilities
apportioned fairly easily, were it not for another difficulty. The
medical profession does not know with sufficient surety just what
constitutes a hygienic life for the average individual.
How can an employer know about safeguarding his women em­
ployees in the interests of productivity unless he knows authorita­
tively that, say, an eight-hour day produces more than a nine-hour
day, with less strain to the woman. What constitutes good housing
facilities? Should a factory have a rest room necessarily? And if
so, how large should it be and how many couches should it contain
per 100 girls? When should rest periods come? Or would exercise
periods be better? To all these questions the medical profession has
given no definite answers.
Considering the tremendous importance of the health of women in
industry at the present time, and the physical readjustment these
women must make before they are satisfactorily absorbed into the
occupations of men—and considering that successful readjustment
is practically dependent on their own intelligent cooperation, is it
not most desirable that any factory employing women have from the
very beginning a trained health officer (not necessarily a doctor)
whose duties would be (1) to see that the hygienic conditions under
which women must work and live are made as satisfactory as possible,
and (2) to educate them to their personal responsibility in the mat­
ter of their health ?
• The British Ministry of Munitions passed a law to the effect that
“ lady superintendents”— as they called them—should be appointed
in every factory employing women. This worked well in those fac­
tories which secured the right kind of a superintendent; but was
resented by the employees in less fortunate factories. The lady
superintendents were, for the most part, untrained and inexperienced,
which accounted for their failure, in many instances, to fill the bill.
England has more recently started courses for the training of her
“ lady superintendents,” and what we need in this country right now
is a school to train health officers, or woman supervisors. This type
of executive is not only what war industries need, but what other
industries will come to, the employment of a health officer who would
know how to interest the industrial women in maintaining a high
standard of health by wholesome ways of living—sensible clothing,



nourishing food, adequate exercise—and in general to establish an
esprit de corps among the employees regarding health.
What would the course of training for the health officers involve ?
Primarily a knowledge of those things that pertain to the physical
well-being of industrial women.
The woman supervisor should be able to advise the manager with
regard to rest rooms, canteen, the physical condition of individual
girls—not as respects disease, but as to probable physical power and
efficiency—and should be able by keeping closely in touch with the
worker, to observe early signs of undue fatigue and to suggest ways
of obviating strain and conserving power, as by the maintaining of
good posture. She should be able to advise the girl as to diet, recre­
ation, exercise, thus supplementing the work of the doctor. She
should be in close touch with the employment manager, advising him
in the placing of girls in accordance with their physical capacity.
On the other hand she must know something of factory problems
from the employer’s side in order that close cooperation may be
The ideal course would perhaps be the first two years of the
medical college—that part of the work that pertains to normal body
functioning—supplemented by a course in labor problems and prac­
tical work in a factory. Such a course would turn out real “ in­
dustrial hygienists” capable of planning healthful conditions in
factory and home.
But we can not wait two years for the graduates of such courses.
We need trained women supervisors now. We, in the Women’s
Division of the Industrial Service Section of Ordnance, have, there­
fore, been planning an intensive course this summer at Mount
Holyoke College. We do not mean to take inexperienced women or
young college girls and train them completely. We mean to choose
those whom we train from two groups of Avomen:
1. Those who have already had successful experience as indus­
trial supervisors or social workers, and supplement their practical
experience by courses in physiology and hygiene—these courses cen­
tering about the question of health as it particularly affects the in­
dustrial woman, and
2. Graduates of physical education colleges of four or five years’
standing, whose training should be supplemented by a study of
labor problems and by practical field work in factories.
Our first course for health officers opens June 26 and will last
eight weeks. The circulars will be out in a week or 10 days. We
plan to certificate by August 25, 30 to 40 health officers trained to
examine girls physically in order to estimate their capacity, to judge
which girls could be put on heavy work, for instance, and having
also knowledge of the effect of different types of diet, exercise, recre­



ation, and posture on the normal body, together with knowledge of
the usual health hazards and ways of minimizing them.
The health officer should go into the factory uniformed and she
must be in good health herself. She will be fitted to advise the em­
ployees in their individual problems, to organize gymnasium and
drill classes if needed, to know housing opportunities, and to utilize
town facilities in other ways. On the other hand she will be fitted
to advise the manager wherever problems arise in connection with
the substitution of women for men in industry. She will be a
trained or professionalized supervisor of women.
The stimulating influence of a wholesome personality in a small
community of girls can hardly be overestimated. Granted healthful
conditions of work, the industrial woman, if her mind were once
turned to the problem of increasing her own physical power, and
her ambition aroused to be well, can do for herself more than can
ever be done for her.
We desire to place our health officers in plants by September 12.
Our effort is to turn women from other vocations into industrial
plants, that they may, through the assistance they can offer in im­
proving the conditions of women’s lives, increase our woman power,
without injuring the woman, and so help in America’s present crisis.
The C hairman . Gentlemen, I am going to ask you to ask ques­
tions. Now is the opportunity to bring out further points in regard
to this plan.
Mr. S t e e l y , general superintendent, W. F. Schrafft & Sons (Inc.),
Boston, Mass. What is the best uniform for woman workers?
Dr. M a n n . I think that question has not been decided and can not
be at present, because it must be decided from experience and from
the character of the work. It will have to be worked out in some
factories first perhaps and tried out before it can be standardized
and unified for all factories.

S teely.

I had in mind the overalls for women.

Dr. M a n n . I feel that the chief requisite of the uniform is that
it should be hygienic, that it should save the woman from the hazards
that she would have been subjected to if she wore her regular cloth­
ing. Personally I see no objection to the overall uniform, if that is
the thing which best answers for the particular job that she is filling.
R o b er t L. W i l s o n , assistant general superintendent, Westinghouse Electric & Manufacturing Co., East Pittsburgh, Pa. I was
very much interested in Dr. Mann’s paper. I would like to*say that
we have about 2,000 women. We have endeavored to obtain a



health officer who would perform the functions outlined, and who
had the technical training. We have had several, all of whom
seemed to fill the requirements so far as technique was concerned;
but we have not yet been able to find one of the right personality.
Women are very temperamental, and we have not been able to get a
woman who could handle them. That feature, it seems to me, should
take a very prominent place in the course of instruction for the
health officers. I don’t know how it can be done. However, I want
to emphasize this particularly—the technical training is not the diffi­
cult point.
We are also trying to determine the proper garb for factory
workers. I tried personally to have the women decide that, and
they had a great many ideas, but I believe myself that the question
can not be settled in any definite way, because it depends upon the
character of the work. A great deal of our work, upon which we
have used women for years, is such that I don’t believe they need
any special garb, and as the chance of accident is very slight, they
can wear their ordinary clothes, but the present campaign to put
women on machine tools and such work emphasizes and almost
makes necessary some particular sort of garb. An overall of some
sort is the thing for that sort of work, and the women seem to favor
it. For some other kinds of work we have tried the “ cover-all”
apron which does very well. A great many points like this have not
been settled, but I would like to ask Dr. Mann one point and that is
as to whether, for most sorts of work that women are engaged in in
factories and manufacturing establishments, she would recommend
as very desirable or necessary a rest period between starting and
stopping time; that is, in the middle of the morning and in the mid­
dle of the afternoon?
Dr. Mann. I would like to reply first to Mr. Wilson’s comment on
the problem of personality. Every person whom we train in this
school of ours is to be personally interviewed. We are going to
make no arrangement by letter. The women that we train this sum­
mer are going to be women who have already made some kind of
success in the handling of girls. I admit the personal element is
basic, fundamental, to what we give them on the technical side.
Then in regard to the rest period. The question of rest period is
intimately bound up with the question of length of hours and time
apportioned to luncheon, I fear. In general, I think that the 15minute rest period in the middle of the morning has been found
successful where tried. And it seems to me that in most processes
it is advisable and it has given effective results. But that is one of
the questions which has to be definitely worked out by the medical
profession. There are no experiments, it seems to me, complete



enough to prove it. I think the only way is to try it out and see
how it works; have some one in the factory who can observe the
G. L. S ullivan , employment manager, Worthington Pump & Ma­
chinery Corporation, East Cambridge, Mass. I would like to ask Dr,
Mann with regard to the duties of health officers, particularly per­
taining to the hygienic conditions. I would also like to ask Dr.
Mann with regard to the instructions in gymnastics. What period of
the day is best to divide.
Dr. M a n n . My idea of a health officer is that she will have to
adapt herself to widely varying conditions. I f she is in a small
factory, she can do more supervising than in a large factory. I f she
is in a factory the home conditions of whose employees are un­
satisfactory, she would probably have to have under her a visiting
nurse to visit the homes. The visiting would probably be done by
some one else but under her supervision. That is, it would be a
part of her responsibility, and she would have to approach it with
the utmost tact, I grant.
I am a great believer in the right kind of exercise for industrial
women. That is because I have had a good deal of experience with
it. After a woman has been standing all day doing a monotonous
job she must have exercise if she is not going to deteriorate. Of
course, the best time for exercise is in the morning. If, however,
that can not be arranged without completely upsetting the factory
organization, and she is not too fatigued, I believe that exercise in
the evening is better than no exercise at all. I think if a girl can
take her evening recreation partly through gymnasium classes or
dancing classes it may benefit her considerably. If she benefits by
that evening work, and if it is impracticable to arrange for such
exercise in the daytime, I believe that evening classes should be or­
ganized. But I think the ideal time is in the morning. Setting-up
exercises before work would be very desirable, I think, for the ma­
jority of women.
D elegate. Does Dr. Mann have for her object in these recreation
periods diversion or rest, entertainment or actual exercise of the
body? I mean by that do women get as much recreation out of
the dancing as they would out of physical instruction or physical
movement ?

Dr. M ann. That is another point on which I feel quite strongly.
I think that we overestimate, perhaps, the necessity of actually lying
down—rest. That is, with young people it seems to me that fre­
quently exercise is what they need. I f they were left free to play
ball in the rest period or run and romp and dance, I think the ma77920°—19------2


t r a in in g


e x e c u t iv e s .

jority of them would be better off for it. I think that depends
on the age of the women. But for young women I believe that the
rest period is better freely spent in exercise. At least, the oppor­
tunity should be given for the girl to take her choice.
[Answering of further questions was deferred until the session of
the following morning, at which session the specific question of the
introduction of women into war work was scheduled.
[It was moved and seconded that a committee be appointed to con­
sider ways and means for publishing the proceedings of the con­
vention immediately.
[Capt. Fisher suggested a change in the motion to the effect that
the committee, when appointed, should include Mr. Ethelbert Stew art, of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, in order that the Bureau might
properly be represented in any decision made.
[Mr. Stewart suggested that the Commissioner of Labor Statistics,
Dr. Meeker, should be appointed in his place.
[The chairman appointed as the committee, Mr. Winans, of
Cleveland, Ohio, chairman; Mr. Booth, of Rochester, N. Y .; Mr.
Lang, of Muskegon, Mich.; and Dr, Meeker, of Washington, D. C.
[The committee made its report at the evening session.]
The C hairman . I would like to make a speech at this point, but
inasmuch as I would like to be on friendly terms with you for the
next few days perhaps I had better refrain; but it seems to me that
the subject on which Prof. Jacobstein is going to speak is of impor­
tance because it not only shows the need for the work which he has
been doing, but marks a very important stage in the development of
employment management. It shows that the Government and large
corporations are realizing strongly the importance of this work and
of having general light thrown upon it. I am now going to intro­
duce Prof. Meyer Jacobstein, of the University of Rochester, who
has been conducting the first Government course on employment man­


As I am to talk about a war-emergency course, I suppose I ought
to give a war-emergency speech, and that is exactly what I am going
to do. I shall use an outline, however, very little time having been
given me for elaborate preparation. But I do hope that if I
do not cover comprehensively the subjects which you may have in
your own mind you will ask questions regarding them; I will
answer them to the best of my ability.
First, as to the origin of this course. From the outset every one
in this country realized that the war must be won by labor, and that
the problem had to be studied scientifically and sympathetically;
and for that work all institutions had to be utilized. Now, one of
the newest institutions in industry is the employment management
institution, and it is a very promising one, for the discovery has been
made that where it has been installed along scientific business lines
it has never been abandoned. So that here was a new institution
that the Government officially decided to study and extend and
apply to industry as far as possible; and when people began to make
demands for trained employment managers, officials at Washington
realized the scarcity of good, experienced, trained employment or
service men. The question then arose as to how to train and develop
men so as to have a reserve corps of these trained and experienced
men. Germany has been training her men for 50 years. We must do
it in six weeks, and necessarily we can’t do in six weeks what Germany
has done in 50 years. Therefore the Government hit upon the training
school or the training course, an intensive course which could be given
to men who had business-trained minds, but who were not espe­
cially versed on particular problems of service and management.
And so, with the cooperation of the several Government agencies,
the War, Labor, and Navy Departments, all cooperating and acting
through the Storage Committee of the War Industries Board, of
which Mr. James Ingiis is chairman, a course for training employ­
ment managers was established at the University of Rochester.
A word regarding the training-school idea. I have heard business
men say, 44What a foolish notion! The idea of trying to train a
man in six weeks. It can’t be done.” We can’t make men over in six
weeks, and it would be folly to attempt to develop men in six weeks;
the scope of such a course must necessarily be limited. A six weeks’



course necessarily involves many limitations. And yet, even though
I went into it with many misgivings and doubts, these doubts gradu­
ally were dispelled as the course went on; and I am surprised that
so much can be accomplished in six weeks’ time. I can say that
without egotism because the success of the course has been largely due
to the lecturers and the character of the men in attendance and not 1he
directors. The Government submitted to us a definite curriculum
covering the following four divisions:
1. Employment department practice.
2. Labor economics.
3%Industrial organization.
4. Statistics.
We were also instructed as to the method of presenting the sub­
ject, namely through lectures, visits to factories, assigned readings,
classroom discussions, and personal work. With the permission of
the Government Departments we cut down on the amount of theo­
retical subjects in the original curriculum. The character of in­
struction and methods of this training school are making the Ameri­
can college and university more practical educational institutions.
Why was Rochester selected as the location for this first training
school ? Not because it is the most wonderful city in the world, which
Rochesterians readily admit, but largely because we have here in
Rochester some well-organized plants which the owners gave over to
us as laboratories for our students. We have used them as labora­
tories to good effect. We also have a college in Rochester which was
visionary enough to see the value of such a training course. The
University of Rochester offered its services to the extent of bearing
the expense in the operation of this first course. Here at Rochester
we have been able to combine the college and the factory, and so
Rochester was selected as the starting point. As you know, a course
is now being given at Harvard University.
The Government agencies at Washington did not pick the students
who entered this course. The Government merely offered the
manufacturers of the United States a place where they could send a
man to get training. The students were selected by the general man­
agers or the employers because they gave promise of being able to
assimilate ideas in this short time and to achieve some success in their
particular line. There was no compulsion.
At first 20 men were allotted to us. But so many factories wanted
to send men that we increased the number to 25. We are actually
graduating 24, that number representing 8 from shipyards, 2 from
arsenals, 1 from the Navy Department, 2 from the United States
Employment Service, and 11 from private institutions. I shall not
read the names of the firms represented, because as the students are



awarded their diplomas this morning you will learn their affilia­
tions. As Capt. Fisher reads the names of the men he will doubtless
read the names of the firms they represent.
These students are not students in the ordinary sense of the term.
They are not boys; they are men. The average age of the students
enrolled is 35. Two-thirds of the men are married. A ll are practi­
cal experienced men.

Some of the men told me that in the first two weeks of the course
they lost from 5 to 15 pounds. I won’t tell you how much I lost be­
cause I have not had the courage to weigh myself. But it is serious
business for these men, because they are going back to prove their
Now as to the course itself. First, as to what we are teaching.
What is the content of the course? I can’t tell you in six minutes
all that it has taken six weeks to teach, but I would like to run over
these subjects briefly.
The practical nature of the course is indicated by the subjects cov­
ered and our method of instruction. A list of these subjects is printed
and will be distributed at the close of this session. We have been
bringing the factory into the classroom. We have had lecturers from
the various factories in the city and from out of town who are prac­
tical men, experts in their lines, to talk upon themes very practical in
themselves. For instance, we were to discuss the subject of women
in industry, a vital problem; Miss Mary B. Gilson, of the Joseph &
Feiss Co., came here on two occasions and presented this subject.
Miss Gilson is a practical woman, and we had a fine practical discus­
sion on the problems incident to this subject. On the subject of safety
organizations in industry we had three eminently practical men: Mr.
Robertson o f the Eastman Kodak Co., preeminently an organizer
along safety lines; Mr. C. W. Price of the National Safety Council,
and Capt. R. R. Ray, formerly of Dodge Bros. These three men gave
us the benefit of their years of experience in this work. On the sub­
ject of medical examinations we called in Dr. Cadmus, who has had
three years of experience in medical examination in a finely organ­
ized department in Rochester. On the question of interviewing the
prospective employee we had talks by Mr. Kinney of the Gleason
Works of Rochester and by Mr. Armstrong of the Bausch & Lomb
Optical Co., who have interviewed hundreds of thousands of men.
So I say we have brought the factory into the classroom.
In addition to this we have taken the classroom into the factory.
Although we had only 35 days of instruction we put the men 4 full
days in the factories. We placed them in the employment depart­
ments of factories, where they remained for 9 hours. They saw how
these employment offices were operated in Rochester.



In addition to this we have had some intensive reading on the
subjects discussed in the classroom. Our library consisted not of
theoretical material written by theoretical men, but such literature
as the proceedings of your last convention, and the conference pro­
ceedings at Boston, Indianapolis, and Philadelphia.
Perhaps I had better give you an idea of our course by reading
a portion of the schedule. We carried this program for two weeks
but dropped down a little because it was too severe.
W ar

E mergency

C ourse


E mployment

M anagement,

U n iv e r s it y


R ochester.



Tuesday morning, April 16.
9.00 to 10.30— Lecture on Complaints and grievances, by Prof. Jacobstein.
10.30 to 11.00— Relaxation.
11.00 to 12.00— Reading on Complaints and grievances.
Tuesday afternoon, April 16.
1.30 to 2.30— Reading on Complaints and grievances.
2.30 to 3.30— Lecture on A suggestion system, by Carl S. Hallauer of the East­
man Kodak Co.
3.40 to 5.30— Gymnasium exercise.
6.15 to 9.00— Biweekly meeting of Employment Managers and Service Group
of Industrial Management Council of Rochester Chamber of
Wednesday morning, April 17.
9.00 to 9.45— Review of previous day’s work.
9.45 to 10.00— Relaxation.
10.00 to 12.00— Lecture on Women in industry, by Miss Mary B. Gilson, of the
Joseph & Feiss Co.
Wednesday afternoon, April 17.
1.30 to
3.00 to
4.00 to
5.00 to
7.30 to

3.00— Reading on Athletics and social activities.
4.00— Discussion on Athletics and social activities.
5.00— Student conferences and assigned readings.
6.00— Gymnasium exercise.
9.30— Assigned reading and notebook work.
Thursday morning, April IS.

9.00 to 9.45— Review of previous day’s work.
9.45 to 10.00— Relaxation.
10.00 to 12.00— Lecture on Safety organization, by J. A. Robertson, general
manager of camera works, Eastman Kodak Co.

Each day we worked up the problems lectured upon or discussed.
These men are practical men. They got together in little groups in



their hotels and if there was anything wrong with the practice or
theory that wo have given them they are going to see it and discard
it. So they are able to sift out the material for themselves* We
know they are men of judgment and able to do this. I regard that as
one of the practical methods o f instruction in this course, to stimu­
late the students so that when they go back to serve their respective
firms they wTill discuss the problems with their colleagues.
We would have given more attention to the theory of labor statis­
tics, labor organization, and industrial organization, but we have not
had time to do it. And I-want to say also that we were able to make
our instructions practical by virtue of the invaluable aid and coopera­
tion given us by the chamber o f commerce. We have an employment
managers’ group, which is one of the subsidiary groups of what is
known as the industrial management council o f the chamber. This
group meets every two weeks and at its meetings hears problems dis­
cussed and presented by practical men from here and elsewhere. So
with the aid of the chamber of commerce, the cooperation of the
Rochester firms, and practical literature, we have, we think, given a
practical course here.

What are the aims of the course? What are we trying to do?
There lias been so much publicity given to this course I must dis­
illusion some of you who are. here and some who are not here. Some
have the idea that we have taken the men out of collage and put
them through a six weeks’ course and then sent them out to manage
some large manufacturing establishment. We are not trying to do
this. We are not trying to train or develop business managers, but
employment or service men, men who will spend their lives handling
the labor problem, who will bear the same relation to labor as the
financial man bears to finance, as the sales manager bears to the sub­
ject of sales and as the production manager bears to production prob­
lems. This is what we have attempted to do. We have a few men
who have come to us with little experience, and by literature and lec­
tures we have attempted to show those men the best practices. The
experienced men w^e have tried to broaden. We have one man who
has been in one industry, who has never been able to get away from
his plant, and who has never read; we think we have broadened his
vision. To both of these classes, experienced and inexperienced, we
have tried to give the idea that the service manager has a bigger job
than the business manager or the general manager has conceived o f
prior to this time. We have attempted to impress upon the prospec­
tive service and employment man that he has a big job, and that
opportunity awaits him in industry, and we have attempted to do this



Jby pointing out to him the various opportunities for service—service
to labor, to capital, and to the community. Our idea has been to give
the practices as well as the principles. I make a distinction in my
teaching between theory and principles. We have talked principles
in this course, though we have not taught abstract theories. We have
given some o f the principles that underlie industrial management
and factory and labor management, but the big thing that we have
tried to “ get over 55 with our men is to give them all a bigger vision
o f their job and the opportunity that lies before them.
You might ask, What is the job of the'service man in industry?
I can’t tell you, in so many words, what we told them, but I will say
this first by way of negation: We have not taught our service men
that they are going to “ bust” labor unions; and if there is any general
manager who is going to put a man from our course into a job with
the idea of eliminating trade-unions from industry he is mistaken.
That is not our function. We are not propagandists for or against
unions. I f any general manager, furthermore, thinks he can put
service managers into industry as a substitute for fair play and
justice, he is mistaken if he takes any of the men from this course.
We have taught them that labor and capital have duties and responsi­
bilities and that the primary function and obligation of the service
man is to study what these responsibilities and duties are and explain
them to labor and capital and thus bring them together harmonious^.
W e have taught our service men to regard the laborer, as he has not
always been regarded, as a human being with instincts that are essen­
tially human, and with aspirations that are some times superhuman.
I f our service men have carried away this idea with them we are
confident that they will do justice to the ideals that we have pre­
It is not for me to say if we have achieved these aims. But I ask
you to get in touch with these men who are wearing the yellow ribbon.
I ask you to take them aside and ask them confidentially what they
have learned from this course. I want to tell you that I have seen
some of the letters sent home to the managers; I have seen some of
the replies. I f you want to know whether we have accomplished any­
thing practical, talk to their general managers.
I wish to express my sincere thanks to those who have helped make
this course a success, first to the lecturers who have helped make the
course practical, then to Capt. Fisher, and to the employment mana­
gers of Rochester who have taken each week three or four men into
their offices at a time when they were swamped with work, and finally *
to the chamber of commerce. We hope that out of this emergency
course will grow such interest among the big business interests of the
country that we may continue this course in time of peace as well as
in war.


[The presentation of diplomas to the students who had completed
the employment managers’ course at the University of Eochester
then took place, Capt. Fisher presiding. Capt. Fisher read two let­
ters, one from the Secretary of War and the other from Chairman
Hurley, of the Emergency Fleet Corporation, congratulating Presi­
dent Eush Ehees, of the university, upon the successful completion o f
the course, Capt. Fisher stating that the letters had been given to him
only that morning and that he had been unable to present them per­
sonally to Dr. Ehees and asking Prof. Jacobstein to do so.
The letters were as follows:]
W ar D e p a r t m e n t ,



Washington, D. G.

R hees,

President University of Rochester, Rochester, N. Y.
My D e a r D r . R h e e s : The graduation of the first group of students in the
war emergency course in employment management at the University of Roch­
ester is an occasion worthy of notice. It has a relation to our successful con­
duct of industry in war time which the national committee of employment
managers’ associations has been wise to recognize. I hope that the conven­
tion will go further than to celebrate, as it is doing, the completion of the first
training course for employment managers, and that it will give helpful criti­
cism and other assistance in enabling us to improve these courses as time
goes on.
The University of Rochester in giving the first of these courses under Gov­
ernment supervision has shown an insight and vision which is in itself some­
thing of its own reward. I can not help feeling, however, that the Government
owes you and your trustees a very definite acknowledgment of thanks for giv­
ing these first courses without cost either to the Government or to the stu­
dents. I am informed also of the great amount of attention given by Mr.
Henry T. Noyes to this matter, and the personal sacrifices made by Prof. Meyer
Jacobstein in giving the course.
I wish you continued and increasing success.
Yours sincerely,
N ewton

D. B aker,

Secretary of War.

U n it e d
D r. R u s h


S h ip p in g

B oard,

Washington, D. C.

R iie e s ,

President University of Rochester, Rochester, N. 7.
D e a r P r e s i d e n t R h e e s : The Emergency Fleet Corporation is proud of
having' so large a representation in the first class graduating in the Govern­
ment’s war emergency course in employment management, given at the Uni­
versity of Rochester. I am glad that our shipyards, upon whose industrial
M y




conditions so much depends, have seen the value of establishing employment
departments and giving their employment men the benefit of the best thought
in this important field of industrial endeavor.
The Emergency Fleet Corporation is especially grateful to the University
of Rochester for establishing this first course and, at a time when it is meeting
other burdens, that the university has undertaken to give the first two or
three of these courses without cost to the Government 01* to the students. I
hope that your courses continue to be successful, and I want to congratulate
you, Prof. Jacobstein, and Mr. Noyes for the accomplishments to date.
Sincerely yours,
E dw abd


H urley,


Capt. Fisher. The giving o f these diplomas in the presence of
this convention may seem a superfluous ceremon}^. It does not in­
struct you directly in anything that you came to Rochester to hear,
but it does instruct you in something that you had to come to
Rochester to appreciate. It tells visually and in action more than
man}^ a speech could tell in words. It is a visible sign that the
profession of the employment manager has come to be recognized as
a separate profession, somewhat similar to the mechanical engineers5
profession, or the physician in industrial practice, or, at least, a
trained nurse or the college professor. We have catapulted these
men into the employment profession. Hitherto a general manager
or superintendent has grabbed a paymaster or assistant in the costaccounting office and said, “ Here, hire some more men; we need
them.” But somehow or other within the last five years these men
injected with so little ceremony into a place in industry and with
so few instructions and with the slight help of the idealism o f the
best in management have themselves visualized what their jobs mean.
As I told you when the course was opened, the chief job of the em­
ployment manager to date has been the saving of the soul of the
general manager. And these men, and those whom you will find
sitting beside you th^re, are men who have lifted themselves .by. their
own boot straps by virtue of the demand for their particular service
in industry. The opportunity was there, gentlemen, and you have
risen to it. The idealism that has grown to surround the profes­
sion of the employment manager demands that he be put through
an apprenticeship starting with six weeks—I hope it will be six
years. However, I am not going to put that period as any measure
of what the gentlemen taking this course will achieve, because, as you
have reason to demand of the profession, the gentlemen in this
course have realized that we are at war, have realized that there is
a need o f more trained men, and realized, furthermore, that tl^ere is
need of their demonstrating an experiment in the training of the
employment manager. And what they have done has been mag­
nificent. Many of these men, for years out of any student course,



have been -wrenched from a practical life full of activity and been
seated at a school bench in a “ little red schoolhouse ” for 9 or 10
or 12 hours a day for 6 weeks; and all but the man who was com­
pelled to leave for pressing business reasons on the first day of the
course have stayed through and become enthusiastic employment
men. I feel it is worthy of this convention that we recognize the
first men trained in employment management, slight though the
training may be.
[Capt. Fisher then made the presentation of diplomas to the gradu­
ates of the course, comprised of one representative of the following
companies or departments:]
Barrett Co., Philadelphia, Pa.
National Malleable Castings Co., Indianapolis, Ind.
Watervliet Arsenal, Watervliet, N. Y.
United States Employment Service, Department of Labor, Washington,
D. C.
Johnson Shipyard Corporation, Mariners’ Harbor, S. I., N. Y.
Frankford Arsenal, Philadelphia, Pa.
E. I. Du Pont de Nemours & Co.,1 Wilmington, Del.
Baltimore Dry Dock & Ship Building Co., Baltimore, Md.
Packard Motor Car Co., Detroit, Mich.
Pusey & Jones Co., Wilmington, Del.
Brooklyn Navy Yard, Hull Division, Brooklyn, N. Y,
Maryland Shipbuilding Corporation, Sollers, Md.
Merchants Shipbuilding Corporation. Philadelphia, Pa.
Passaic Cotton Mills, New Bedford, Mass.
Hercules Powder Co., Wilmington, Del.

Merchants Shipbuilding Corporation, Bristol, Pa.
Henry Disston & Sons (Inc.), Tacony, Philadelphia, Pa.
Mobile Shipbuilding Co., Mobile, Ala.
General Electric Co., Schenectady. N. Y.
Morris & Co., Chicago, 111.
United States Employment Service, Department of Labor, Baltimore, Md.
Central Employment Department, Rochester, N. Y.

The C h airm a n . This has been a most delightful and impressive
occasion and I am sure we are all gratified in witnessing the pre­
sentation of diplomas to the men who, we all realize, are going to
do a great deal to bring about better conditions in the plants and
industries to which they are going.
[Session adjourned at 12.30 p. m.]

1 T w o rep resen ta tiv es.

T H U R S D A Y , M A Y 9— A F T E R N O O N SESSION .

[The meeting was called to order at 2 o’clock p. m. at the Rochester
Chamber of Commerce by the chairman.]
The C h a ir m a n . It has fallen to my lot, and I consider it a great
privilege and honor, to preside at this meeting, as I happen to be the
chairman of the industrial management council of this chamber.
The council has as one of its most important groups the employment
and service group. This has existed for some years and is doing
excellent work, and we feel sure that as the result of this very grati­
fying convention, and the very gratifying attendance at it the coun­
cil will do very much better work for the employers of Rochester in
the future. The employers of Rochester congratulate themselves on
the opportunity that you have given them to entertain you here at
the chamber at this time. We understand that it was 3’our intention
to go elsewhere, and we count it no credit to Rochester and to our­
selves that you are here ; the credit comes by way of Washington. It
was the decision of the people in Washington to place at the Uni­
versity of Rochester the first national employment course instituted
in this country, and we presume that is the reason why Rochester
was selected at this time. Nevertheless, whatever the reason, we are
very gratified that you should come here.
One of the most perplexing problems of the employer, and one
which he finds most difficult to meet in a treatment of his labor dif­
ficulties is that of absenteeism. We are privileged this afternoon
to be addressed on that subject by Mr. S. R. Rectanus, director of
employment, American Rolling Mill Co., Middletown, Ohio.

Absenteeism is such a comprehensive word that it seems best to
define it in a general way and indicate the special phase of it to
which I will confine my remarks.
Absenteeism is the antithesis of organization. I f you have less
men than you really need to do the work assigned to you for the
winning of this war, you suffer from it. I f your men are discharged,



or quit, you suffer from it. I f your men for any reason are absent
from their posts of duty, you suffer from it. If you can tell that a
man is present only by seeing him and not by the result of his labor,
you suffer from it.
When all men are absent you have no organization. When the
men are all present, physically and mentally, every day, some plan­
ning, some directing, some executing, then organization is the word
we use to describe the condition which results.
Absenteeism in all its various forms is Germany’s chief ally on
this continent. It is the “ Old Man of the Sea ” of every employment
manager, the canker in the roots of our strength, the blight on the
fruits of our labor.
Let me assume, however, that you have a going concern, produc­
ing material needful for the speedy, successful conclusion of the
war; that your plant is consequently well designed and properly
manned, equipped and managed in a way to secure good working
conditions; that you have a moderate turnover and a reasonable
supply of men for replacement. Still you find that the charts of
progress and output show disconcerting variations from those de­
shed. There is a spirit of uneasiness abroad, a restless tension in
the air.
This gang is behind—because Jim, the regular leader, is not at work.
That crew is slow because there are two new fellows on it. You see
a handy man at a lathe because the operator is missing. A foreman
is in a stew because his instructor had to be sent to another shop for
the day to fill a temporary vacancy. When you go to the time
office and check over clock cards, you find from 5 to 15 per cent of
them not punched that day. To-morrow approximately the same
number of cards is not touched, but they belong to different men.
Those are the men I want to consider, the men on the roll who
work nearly every day, the men whose output is needed, who can
work and should work, but who don’t work; not the few who won’t
work, but -the many who. don’t work.
Detailed statistics are frequently uninteresting, and I will not
bore you with any now. Information which I have secured from a
considerable number of necessary industries, quite widely distributed
through the country, shows that every day about 10 per cent of the
men who should be on duty are missing. When you* consider that it
takes 10 workmen to back up every soldier, you see that‘this army
of slackers approximately equals the army of men we are to put on
the battle line.
No accurate information as to the extent of the malady is avail­
able, nor do I think it is necessary at present. We all recognize its
existence and are anxious to help eliminate it.



In order to suggest a remedy, it is important to find the cause of
the trouble. All of the many causes which have been stated may be
grouped under a few heads. Hardly any of them are reasons, and
most of them are mighty poor excuses.
Accidents had been generally taken for granted until a few years
ago. We all sympathize with the unfortunate individual when he
is hurt, and with his family, if he has one, but if you think accidents
are unavoidable I can only refer you to the National Safety Council
and the splendid results they have been accomplishing.
Illness, in various forms, either of the workman or his family,
also excites our sympathy, but the doctors now are finding that it is
better to keep a man well than to cure him. If typhoid can be mas­
tered and tuberculosis made to yield, why should we submit to any
disease ? Cures have depreciated, and an ounce of prevention is now
worth several pounds of cure. I f we are careful and moderate and
properly advised we can avoid illness. I went to a doctor only this
week and explained that I felt weary and draggy and tired. I
thought my nerves were run down and needed a rest. After assisting
him in a ritual designed to impress me with his wisdom, I was in­
formed that if I did not let my fishing tackle alone I probably never
would get well; what I really needed was about 10 hours a day with a
sledge in the forge shop, but he let me off with an hour before dinner
in pretending that seed potatoes were Germans and playing at
burying them..
From the published reports it seems that the Department of Labor
is now so organized that it wTill soon remove one of the principal
causes of absenteeism. The work of the Federal and of the coordi­
nated State free employment offices in controlling the distribution of
idle men, finding work for them, and in placing men where the^ are
most needed, together with all of the other functions which the De­
partment must perform to accomplish these results, is reducing the
number of men who lay off with or without assent to take a look at
another job. We realize what an enormous and difficult task this
Department has before it. We know how scarce are the trained men
needed actually to execute the work which has been planned. We
are gratified as well as amazed at the progress which has been made,
but we would respectfully suggest that as soon as the service can be
enlarged to make the plan possible all advertising for men by pri­
vate enterprises be stopped, and this work be carried on altogether by
the agencies of the Department of Labor.
The chief cause is much simpler, and consequently can be more
easily and rapidly eliminated than any of these. The principal ex­
cuse that men give for laying off is that they do not feel like working.
There is no question that wages have generally increased more rapidly
during the past year than the cost of living. Men now have to work



only five days and a half and probably only five days a week to live
as well as they did formerly on the earnings of six days. It is be­
coming popular not to work steadily. Popularity is the expression
of a sentiment. Proper sentiment is just as easily created as im­
proper sentiment. The solution of the biggest portion of the prob­
lem is well within our grasp. Make it the fashion to work effectively
every day. Who now is working for money; who for individual re­
ward? We have a cause to work for; a cause worthy of our finest,
truest, sincerest effort and energy. None of us can do this thing
alone, of course not. Who is selfish or stupid or thoughtless enough
to want to do anything alone? All of us pulling together, knowing,
understanding, realizing that we—all of us together—must win this
war, we can accomplish our purpose.
How can we do it? We have to create so powerful a sentiment,
have to make it so popular to be present, that any one who does not
fall in line will be crushed. Coercion? Oh, no. Education, adver­
tising, example, salesmanship—we have an idea to sell. We have to
put that idea all the way over.
To sell the idea of maximum, continuous service as an idea is diffi­
cult. Most men, particularly the doers, want and need something
more tangible than that. They have to see what they are working
for. The goal must always be clearly visible. Then they must know
why they are working. A sound logical reason is essential. I f man
be but boy grown to larger size he wants to know why. Manage­
ment, superintendents, foremen, mechanics, helpers, laborers, all the
way down the line must know and realize that we are all needed in
fighting a common enemy. They must appreciate that a huge man
power is needed across the water, that lives are being sacrificed 24
hours a day. Here behind we must have speed, output, enormous
production and everyone must help. The problem is to make each
single individual realize that it is his personal responsibility to do
his level best all the time.
To that end he must be provided with steady work. As always,
the brunt of the burden must fall on the planners. Of what avail is
it to have a group of men keyed up to the fighting pitch? They are
trying their best every day, observing the regulations of the Food
Administration; saving money for investment in Government securi­
ties; aiding all administration policies to the best of their ability.
For a time things move smoothly, production far exceeds their ex­
pectations, then without warning they are told that there is no work
for them for a week, even for a day. How can anyone explain away
fully the causes of the delay? How can anyone expect these men
to retain their enthusiasm? Sometimes we say it is impossible to
maintain the continuous flow of work on account of reasons beyond



our control. Grant that it is impossible, still it must be done. The
line must be held.
A gang bonus, depending for its amount on the skill of the crew,
is not only a splendid incentive toward steady attendance, but also
a working example of the effectiveness of organization. Wherever
the nature of the work will permit, small groups of men should be
united to perform a definite task. They will soon know each other,
accommodate themselves to each other, eliminate the slacker and be
ready and anxious for competition with any other similar groups.
So ready and anxious, indeed, that they must frequently be re­
strained to prevent them from doing injury to themselves through
Some of you are probably familiar with the process of manufac­
turing iron and steel sheets. You know that bars are heated in
furnaces and then rolled back and forth through heavy iron rolls.
In spite of the water-cooled floors and furnace walls, cool air currents
and boshes of cool water, the heat in the summer grows unbearable.
The men are handling red-hot material with tongs. Behind them
are the furnaces, before them the rolls so hot they are almost red.
To endure the heat at all the men must live very regular lives. Their
rest periods must be long, their food carefully selected and prepared.
Any excess results in heat prostration, dissimilar to that brought on
by exposure to the sun’s rays in that ’it is usually accompanied by
severe cramping. There are some plants who make no attempt to
run steadily during the hot summer months. Some always close
completely during July. But there is one plant that I know quite
well which always runs to full capacity during the whole year. The
men work in crews just as at the other plants. Each man has his
carefully planned duties to perform, each is needed. All must work
or all must stop. It is true that in the summer additional help is
provided. There are a few more men than in the winter. Reserves
are carried on light work which can always be abandoned tem­
porarily. But the important thing is that the mill runs. The men
have decided that they can and will do the job, and they do it. The
plant medical staff has to be on the alert, the foreman must be care­
ful, or some man will work beyond his strength. Sometimes the boys
from the office have to strip off and help; occasionally the foreman
or the superintendent takes a pair of tongs to tide over a rough spot,
but the mill runs.
When the work is of such a nature that the men can not be grouped
for the performance of a certain task, an individual attendance
bonus may be offered. The most prevalent practice where men are
paid weekly or four times a month, is to offer each man who is
present every day of the pay period an additional proportion of
his wages, frequently 10 per cent, as a reward. As far as I am



able to learn, this plan is securing only a partial success. The
principal fallacy in the plan is that it involves no element of com­
petition. I f a laborer is earning $24 a week, his 10 per cent at­
tendance bonus amounts to $2.40. To miss a day’s work costs him
$4 plus the $2.40. Now the incentive which will make him sacrifice
$6.40 for a day of leisure does not seem to be much stronger than
the incentive which makes him give up $4. Besides, many men see
a splendid chance to beat the game if the pay periods are short. You
know that most men take an almost childish delight in beating the
game. Instead of laying off a single day every so often, he works
steadily for a week and then lays off two days the next week to catch
up. Just how he beats the game by losing money is beyond me, but
many men seem to reason in that way. To lengthen the period for
which the bonus is paid defeats the purpose, because the reward is so
far off at the beginning of the period that it is a very vague some­
thing quite unattainable and consequently not worth working for.
The simple keeping of complete and accurate records of the men
who are absent or tardy will help materially if the men know that the
records are being kept. Most men are proud of a good record. If
the question of steady attendance is sufficiently important to record
it is also important to the man that no absences are recorded. That
record is his reputation, and most men are careful of their reputation.

These records lend themselves to another use in helping combat
the evil if they are published. The spirit of rivalry is keen and
men, particularly in groups, are anxious and very quick to attempt
to prove their superiority if they find that their excellence is recog­
nized, We are told that within the past month the number of rivets
driven per day was trebled in one of our eastern shipyards by the
simple expedient of posting in a conspicuous place the records of
the previous day’s work accomplished by each gang. A trip to
Washington or some such inexpensive, but appreciated, prize was of­
fered to the winning crew. Men do not work best for money alone.
Do not misunderstand me. I am conscientiously opposed to any
form of reward which does not compensate the worker for the re­
sults he accomplishes. I am heartily opposed to any attempt to
exploit any group by substituting a tawdry prize for their just wages.
But don’t overlook the fact that some of the world’s greatest ac­
complishments have had as a reward a simple bit of ribbon for
the buttonhole, or an inexpensive medal.
The results which can be obtained by properly induced competi­
tion between departments or squads are remarkable. In a plant em­
ploying 5,000 persons one department in which 500 men are en­
gaged started an attendance campaign. The men were grouped in
sections, and each week a report was published showing the total
7 7 9 2 0 ° — 1 9 -------- 3



number of men in each section, the total number of man days which
were possible, the total number actually worked, and the percentage
of actual attendance. In addition, the money value of these un­
worked days was shown. All of the foremen responded, and the
results were, I believe, worth the effort. In January the attendance
was 90 per cent, and the money value to the men of the hours lost
was $4,300. In March the attendance was 94 per cent, while the
money value of the hours lost was only $2,400. Those figures cover,
of course, only a brief period and it still remains to be seen whether
permanent good will be accomplished. A New England concern
employing approximately the same number of men,„ but making an
entirely different product, has been using a somewhat similar plan.
I am reliably informed that their attendance for the last five months
of 1917 averaged 97 per cent of the possible.
It is not fair to try to shift the burden of responsibility to the
man. Remember that it is the job of the employment manager to
sell this idea, and he can not expect to be successful if he tries to sell
his product to an insolvent buyer, so that all the elements of proper
employment enter into the problem—proper selection and proper
placement of men from homes where conditions are good. A com­
petent medical staff that keeps the men well, a ventilated and clearly
lighted plant with guarded machinery, and an effective safety sales­
man are presupposed. The man must be well paid, well instructed,
and well trained. He must receive the promotion he is entitled to
and be transferred, if wrongly placed, either at the first selection or
when he has developed or when working conditions have changed.
There are many angles from which a man can be approached. If
he had the correct viewpoint he would not be absent willingly. Why
not assume that the customer is right and sell him the correct view­
point? Follow up the absentee while he is absent and talk it over.
I f you make this follow-up from the viewpoint of investigating the
absence you will probably antagonize your client and minimize your
success. Assume that the man would not willingly be absent. I f
he has not arranged for a furlough beforehand, assume that he needs
your help and go to him to offer it.
Be careful, of course, not to oversell the idea. You can be too
anxious to have the man on the job—like a business man I heard of
who had great trouble in securing a messenger and who finally in
desperation inserted the following advertisement in his local paper:
Boy wanted.
Young or old.
Either sex.

In a large organization the problem of securing complete enough
information quickly enough to permit these visits is a serious one.



Means have been and can be devised to permit you to know before
noon of each day the names of the men who were absent during the
preceding 24 hours, where they live, and whether the foreman knows
why they are absent.
The foreman is quite largely, almost entirely, the man upon whom
the success of the undertaking depends. He knows the men, is with
them daily. The foreman is the leader and sets the fashion. IT
your plan of organization is so functional that you have several fore
men for each gang, then eliminate your discipline foreman and sub­
stitute in his place a moral foreman, an “ esprit de corps” foreman.
You can not possibly reach each workman personally, but you can
reach each foreman or each general foreman.
You know that it essential for every man to work every day. You
believe in it, you practice it, you convince others that it must be done.
We can make the idea of “every man on the job every day” a popular
idea. I f you can interest a man sufficiently to get him on the prop­
erty, you can interest him enough to get him on the job.
The C h a ir m a n . We are now to listen to a paper on another sub­
ject in which you are all tremendously interested. I know little has
been done along the line of standardization and rates in Rochester.
We are to hear about this from Walter D. Stearns of the Westinghouse Electric & Manufacturing Co. of Pittsburgh.


It has been said time and again, but it should be repeated over and
over: For the present our one job is to win the War. All energies
should be used for this one purpose. Anything which does not in
some way help win the War is out of place at this time.
We have read, but we are just beginning to realize what this War
means, not only in the supreme sacrifice of our boys who have gone
and are going “ across,” but in the immense amount of war supplies
that is needed. We are just commencing to appreciate that the
mines, the farms and the factories of America must be as well or­
ganized as our military forces in order to supply them with the
necessities for winning the War.
Certain words have been used until we are all tired of them, but
they embrace so much that is of vital importance that we must con­
tinue to use them. I refer to such words as organization, coopera­
tion, efficiency and one of the newer ones, though by no means new,
Mr. Herbert T. Wade, in Industrial Management for April, makes
a strong plea for more complete standardization either by the Na­
tional Government or by the general cooperation of all interested.
I f this is not done manufacturers and consumers generally will be
at the mercy of the large corporations who can establish and en­
force their own standards, developed only in regard to their own
large establishments and special methods and needs. Mr. Wade not
only suggests more national standardization but urges especially in­
ternational standardization.
We have done much in this country along the lines of standardiza­
tion. It is not unusual to see complete factory buildings erected in
from one to three months. A gang of 120 men can erect ten 5-room
houses in a single day. We think nothing of being able to buy
standard parts for our machinery. These things are possible be­
cause of standardization.
We have standardized buildings, materials, machines, methods, and
products. These are of vast importance in winning the war, but of
vital importance behind all of these is the man power of America.
Why not standardize men? At first thought this does not sound



pleasant and may seem unreasonable, but as one studies the problem
he realizes both the need and possibility of standardizing the man
power of the country.
Our chief problem to-day is, after all, the efficient use of men. The
Secretary of Labor, William B. Wilson, has said: “ The available
man power of the Nation serving as the industrial aim in warfare is
not employed to its fullest capacity, nor is it in all cases wisely di­
rected. The effective conduct of the War is suffering needlessly be­
cause of the decrease in efficiency due to labor unrest.”
Perhaps it would be better to say not standardize men but stand­
ardize conditions having to do with the human element in manufac­
turing. Something has already been accomplished along this line
through our State laws in regard to working hours, health protection,
accident prevention, and workmen’s compensation. Working condi­
tions are more or less standard among the employees of the govern­
ment and on our large railroads, but little has been done until very
recently toward making any attempt at standardizing occupations
cr rates of pay.
The real labor problem to-day is not so much a shortage of men as
the difficulty in keeping men with any one concern long enough for
them to become trained and to absorb the spirit of their employer
and feel that they are part of the organization.
It is only human and right for all of us to want to improve our
own condition and we are always eager for the new, for the untried.
There is the instinct in everyone to trade, to bargain. Much of the
present abnormal labor turnover is doubtless due to these inborn
tendencies which lead the workman to “ shop for jobs” ; and just at
the present time the shopping is particularly good, for all concerns
have much to offer both in opportunity and wages.
Anything that may be done to reduce this constant shifting of the
workman from plant to plant is of especial importance now.
The workman doesn’t know how his conditions in one plant com­
pare with what they might be in another plant. In fact, the em­
ployer himself has no means of comparing his own conditions with
those of other companies. It is very difficult for two industrial man­
agers, even if their product be similar, to talk intelligently regarding
occupations or rates of pay, because they do not have a common
nomenclature. Different words are often used for the same occupa­
tion and what one manufacturer might consider a first-class operator
would be a third-class operator for another concern. Even if stand­
ard names were used for standard jobs and each job were classified
according to the skill required for that job, there would still exist
the inconsistencies between plants regarding rates of pay. Part of
this difference in rates of pay will be due to differences in local con­



ditions, but if there were a common language in which all could dis­
cuss these differences, many of them would be eliminated.
The work of standardizing occupations and rates naturally divides
into four parts: Determining standard occupations; dividing all
employees into classes based upon their relative value to the industry;
determining what class of man is needed for each occupation; and
determining rates of pay for the various classes.
1. In determining standard occupations all occupations used should
be listed. These should be subdivided into separate occupations only
so far as the work is distinctly different and requires different opera­
tions and a worker of different qualifications. These occupations
should be carefully defined and given standard names.
2. Dividing all employees into classes based upon their relative
value to the industry is the most difficult and at the same time the
most important part of the work, and as far as is known has never
been attempted before. The scheme is to place all employees in
classes, grouped not at all according to occupation but according to
the value of the service that the employee renders. The measure of
this service, among other things, may be based on the degree of
mechanical skill, supervising ability, initiative and judgment, phys­
ical strength and endurance, or willingness to do disagreeable work.
Five divisions have been adopted for this classification and, in a very
general way, what these divisions are intended to comprehend may
be obtained from the following descriptions and examples:
Class A.—Leaders in charge of groups, experimental workers,
and those on the highest-grade production work. Those possessing
general knowledge of the manufacturing operations, methods, and
materials used. Judgment, accuracy, and a high degree of skill and
dependability are necessary. Examples of this class are engine lathe,
planer, and boring-mill operators on very large work where great
loss is incurred if mistakes are made, and instrument makers and
Class B.—Accurate, dependable workers with considerable ability
and experience but without the expert knowledge and experience
required of those in Class A. Generally, operators on accurate or
heavy work which is usually repeated. Examples of this class are
engine lathe operators, work not especially accurate but laborious,
work on smaller lathes where responsibility is great, as on commu­
tators and collectors after being assembled on shafts; planer op­
erators on medium sized work, much repetition; and vertical boringmill operators on large work, accurate, difficult work on small mills.
Class C.—Workmen who have become proficient on lines of work
which are usually repeated, such as engine lathe operators on repeti­
tion work and on roughing shafts, planer operators on rough work



such as roughing stock for poles, and boring-mill operators on small
repetition work.
Class D.—Workmen who can be brought in a short time to be
efficient producers on lines of work which are usually repeated, such
as employees learning to operate engine lathes, planers, and boring
mills, and learning winding.
Class E.—Unskilled workmen with little, if any, previous train­
ing, men on work requiring a small degree of skill, accuracy, or
knowledge, as unskilled workmen, like truckers, sweepers, material
handlers, and machine helpers.
This broad classification is based upon the employee’s relative
value to the industry, regardless of his particular occupation. Each
class may include a variety of occupations and many occupations
may require employees from several classes. For example, we may
have toolmakers, lathe hands, and boring-mill hands all in Class
A. We may also have lathe hands in Classes B, C, and D.
A man may be of value not only for reasons inherent in himself
but for reasons inherent in the occupation. The work may be espe­
cially dirty, hot, cold, unhealthful, or dangerous, thus giving em­
ployees for this occupation a classification higher than they would
have from any personal qualifications.
3. The class of man needed should be determined from the nature
of the work to be performed. For example, suppose the occupation
to be that of engine lathe operator and the operation be rough-turn­
ing shafts. A Class C man would do this work satisfactorily. Sup­
pose the occupation still be engine lathe operator, but the operation
be taking the finishing out on shafts. It would take a Class B man
to do this work satisfactorily.
4. The rates of pay for the highest class and for the lowest class
are determined by the labor market in the special locality. Having
determined these two limits it remains to distribute the rates among
the various classes.
much for the general scheme. Now for the specific problem
as found in the East Pittsburgh works of the Westinghouse Electric
& Manufacturing Co. This company employs 20,000 operatives.
Their product is a complete line of electrical apparatus. The plant
is made up of 16 departments, each being practically a separate
factory, with its own superintendent and foremen. All of these
superintendents report to a general superintendent.
Because of the nature of its work this company uses practically
all of the occupations common to the metal trades and many others
that are peculiar to the electrical industry. Many of the depart­
ments have operations that are very similar and often exactly alike.
I f an employee in one department is paid more or less than an ern-



ployee who renders exactly the same service in another department,
then there is much dissatisfaction and a decided tendency to shift
from department to department.
Labor turnover and all other statistical data, to be of greatest
value, should be kept by occupation.
In an attempt to overcome such difficulties an occupation and rate
committee was appointed to study the situation and devise a method
of classifying and standardizing occupations and rates of pay.
The occupations in each department were tabulated. It was found
that different names were often used for the same occupation. These
were all given a common name and after they were all brought into
one list, still there remained more than 400 distinct occupations.
These were finally grouped and condensed into a list of about 200,
which was adopted as standard. Numbers and standard names were
assigned to these occupations and care is taken to use this standard
wording on all forms and records dealing with occupations.
I f the work had gone no further than this it still would have
been worth while, if for no other reason than to have all statistical
records on the same basis, and for all superintendents to be able to
talk over their problems on a common ground. With a well-organized employment department something of this sort is practically
indispensable. Such a department also demands something in the
way of an occupation analysis card and this again necessitates
standardizing the occupations.
The next step was to determine the number of men in each occu­
pation in each department and the class in which the men in each
occupation should be placed. For example, a boring mill in one
department might require a Class C man while a boring mill in an­
other department might require a Class A man. Likewise one de­
partment might itself have several different kinds of engine lathe
work which would require men from Classes B, C, and D.
After all the occupations in the departments were placed in their
proper classes the prevailing wage scale was applied to these
classes—that is, the highest wages were allowed for Class A and the
lowest wages for Class E employees. Suppose, for example, our
highest wage on a daywork basis at the time the scheme had been
incorporated had been 50 cents an hour, and our lowest had been 15
cents an hour, then Class A employees might have been rated from
40 to 50 cents and Class E employees from 15 to 20 cents. A “ key ”
sheet was made up showing the range of rates of pay for each class.
This range in rates allows for normal increases, due to increased
efficiency, long service, etc. The minimum rate authorized for a
class is, in general, the maximum hiring rate. The higher rates are
to be used only for the most skilled in that class. The higher-class
occupations, requiring skill, experience, or special ability, should be



filled by promotion or transfer from another department wherever
An occupation and rate book is made up for each superintendent.
All occupations in the entire factory are given in this book in alpha­
betical order. The classes authorized for each occupation are given
together with the various departments which are authorized to use
that class of employee.
The occupation analysis cards are made out in triplicate; one for
the foreman, one for the employment department, and one for the
occupation and rate committee. Each foreman has only the cards
for the occupations in his subdepartments. These cards show what
classes he is expected to use for the operations he has.
I f the occupation is properly classified in the first place, in gen­
eral the classification should not be changed unless the nature of the
work or operation is changed. I f the rate allowed is not high
enough to retain the employee in this occupation, then one of two
things should be done. Either the man should be promoted to an
occupation which requires a higher-class man or else -there should
be a flat raise in rates for all the classes. The chief advantage in
using a “ key” sheet to show the rates paid for the various classes
is that only the class letter is used on all records, so any changes
in the wage scale simply means issuing a new “ key ” sheet with the
corresponding new rates.
It is the duty of the occupation and rate committee to establish new
occupations and rates, approve changes in rates and investigate any
unusual conditions that may be due to rates of pay.
The two fundamentals of this plan are: (1) The determination
of standard occupations and the choice of specific names and defini­
tions for these occupations; and (2) The classification of workers in
accordance with their value to the industry, regardless of occupation.
The two ideals of this plan are: (1) Uniform rate of pay for uni­
form service, thus preventing the discontent that might arise due to
nonuniform wages; (2) Maintenance of wages for each occupation
within a certain range, and when an employee reaches the limit of
that range, the facilitation of his promotion to an occupation of
higher value.
This work has been growing at the Westinghouse plant for about
two years and has proved so very satisfactory that it is being ex­
tended just as rapidly as possible to allied companies.
It seems logical to liken the departments in our company to the
various companies in a given district. I f all the companies in a dis­
trict were to standardize their occupations and rates in some general
way, as has been outlined, they might be able to get together on com­
mon ground and do much toward reducing labor turnover.



The only way to make this effective would be for all companies
in the district to be working on the same fundamental scheme and
using the same standards. This could be accomplished through a
small district committee. Such a committee should consist of a man
of very broad experience and familiar with manufacturing opera­
tions, and a statistician, who should devote their whole time to the
work. In addition there should doubtless be two or three representa­
tive men to act in an advisory capacity.
This work might very profitably be taken up by the employers'
associations or similar organizations.
This would help to solve the problem for an individual district
but the labor problem is no longer one of individual districts. The
ultimate aim should be such a standardization for the whole country.
Standardization of this general sort is surely coming for individ­
ual plants and for plants in a district; why should not these indi­
vidual standardizations and district standardizations all be made to
conform to a national standardization of occupations and rates? Tn
other words, wouldn’t the gains be sufficient and isn’t this work im­
portant enough, to be taken up by the United States Department of
The C h a i r m a n . Every employer who has had to do—and no em­
ployer has not had to do—with the matter of wages in the past three
years has felt the need of some yardstick by which he can measure
the adequacy of the wages that he is paying. Very few if any com­
munities have a local yardstick by which this can be measured, but
we have a national yardstick which is given us by the Department
of Labor. We have with us to-day the head of the Bureau of Labor
Statistics of the Department of Labor who will tell us what the cost
of living is and how it is determined; because those figures are the
ones by which every employer should judge the adequacy of the
wage he is paying. It is my great pleasure to introduce to you Dr.
Royal Meeker, United States Commissioner of Labor Statistics.


I did not have time to write down my extemporaneous speech. I
just have some notes here, which I won’t use. The trouble with a
three-ring circus is that so much of interest always goes on in the
two rings that you can’t watch. The advantage of a program ar­
ranged as this is—maybe you don’t think it is an advantage—is that
you can listen to but one speaker at a time. The temptation to
digress and to discuss the two subjects presented by the pre­
ceding speakers is very great. Especially would I like to dis­
cuss the question of standardization of occupational names and
wages. But I am going to stick to the task that was assigned to me,
and it is some task, believe me. I want to start out by saying that
cost of living studies are fundamental. Most labor disputes center
around the question of wages. A very large part of labor turn­
over centers around the question of wages also. The more accurate
determination then of what has happened to the cost of living is
absolutely fundamental. The statement has been made that there
is no doubt that wages have increased within the past year more
than the cost of living. That statement needs more verification. It
needs a more solid foundation of facts. The working people are
not fully satisfied with the statement that wages have advanced more
rapidly than the cost of living. I may say that quite early in the
game I recognized the fundamental character of the cost of living
studies, and I have attempted to interest Congress in cost of living
studies, thus far without marked success. The Bureau of Labor
Statistics is at present carrying on cost of living studies at the re­
quest of the Labor Adjustment Board of the Emergency Fleet Cor­
poration of the United States Shipping Board. I want to repeat
that cost of living studies are fundamental. A very large propor­
tion of our labor unrest, of the slowing up of output, is due to dis­
putes as to the questions of increase in cost of living, of the relative
rapidity of increase in cost of living as against wage advancement.
It is fundamental that we settle those questions as accurately as pos­
sible. I am as fully aware as anyone in this room of the great
difficulties confronting anyone who attempts to investigate the cost
of living. What is a living wage? Have we any basis to start




from? We can with a considerable degree of accuracy find out by
what percentage the different items of family expenditure have in­
creased. But what do we know about the adequacy of the wage in
1913 or 1914, or any other particular year? What do we know about
a living wage? But little has been done to standardize budget ex­
penditures. More has been done to standardize food expenditures
than any other item of expenditure. Probably the studies made by
the Bureau of Labor Statistics are the best information available on
that subject; at least, we are willing to accept them as the best that has
been done along that line. Now, it is interesting to compare some of
the results that we have found in our cost of living studies, be­
ginning with the Philadelphia district. The families studied in that
district numbered 512. They were workingmen’s families; in our
studies we took only families that consisted of husband and wife
and at least one child at home not earning money. There was usually
more than one child. We tried to get recognized standard families,
with the emphasis on “ standard.” We wanted to get at something
that was get-at-able. We took 512 families, mostly the families of
shipyard workers. We did not confine ourselves absolutely to ship­
yard workers, but I think that in the Philadelphia district, more
than 90 per cent of the families actually were families of shipyard
workers. The workers were both skilled and unskilled; what pro­
portion of skilled and unskilled I don’t know. Do any of you know
what a skilled worker is ? If you do, I wish you would tell me. It has
been proposed that in our classifications and descriptions of occupa­
tions we separate said occupations into highly skilled, skilled, and
unskilled. I f you can tell me what a highly skilled worker is, what
a skilled worker is, and what an unskilled worker is, I would be
very much obliged.
These 512 families taken together had an average expenditure in
1917 of $1,398.83. Increased cost of living in 1917 over 1914, which
was taken as the basal year because that was the year that the Wage
Adjustment Board wanted us to take, was 43.81 per cent on all
items. It is rather interesting to note how the expenditure for food
has gone up, relative to the total expenditure. I f the total income
per family, $1,399, is taken as 100 the expenditure for food amounts
to 43.31 per cent, which is high for food. I f you will compare this
with budgets taken in normal times you will see it is considerably
higher for food than in normal times. In the New York district,
608 families were chosen in the same way as in Philadelphia, most
of them families of shipyard workers. The average expenditure of
the families amounted to $1,348.64. The percentage of expenditure
for food was 45.01 per cent. I am skipping through these because I
know that you are anxious to hear the speakers that are to follow.



Now, skipping over a few hundred miles of intervening territory
we land in Beaumont, Tex., and we find the white labor there, taken
in the same way, shipyard workers mostly, had $1,284.27, average
expenditure. Note how close the expenditure corresponds with that
in the Philadelphia and New York districts; and note also how closely
the items of expenditure correspond. Expenditure for food in Beau­
mont, Tex., made up 44.72 per cent of all expenditures. I think I
neglected to state that the increase in 1917 over 1914 in the New
York district for all expenditures was 44.68 per cent. The total in­
crease, 1917 over 1914, Beaumont, Tex., was 43.44 per cent. There
were only nine colored families obtainable in Beaumont, Tex.
Thereby hangs a tale, but I won’t tell it. The average expenditure of
these colored families, all unskilled labor—no matter what they did
they would be unskilled because they are colored—was $932.97.
Expenditure for food made up 52.08 per cent of all expenditure for
these colored families. The increase in 1917 over 1914 was 48.79 per
cent. In Houston, Tex., which is very close to Beaumont and to
Orange, Tex., we took 91 white families, with an average income of
$1,255.88. Expenditure for food was 46.28 per cent. Increase, 1917
over 1914, was 44.89 per cent. No colored laborers in that district. In
Orange, Tex., the average expenditure of 45 families taken was
$1,188.47. Expenditure for food made up 49.96 per cent. Increase,
1917 over 1914, was 48.26 per cent. In Tampa, Fla., the 51 white
families had an average outlay of $1,116.62. Expenditure for food
was 44.67 per cent. Increase, 1917 over 1914, was 39.64 per cent.
Twenty-eight colored families in the same district had an average ex­
penditure of $836.43. Food was 47.21 per cent of all expenses. The
increase in cost of living was 38.67 per cent. That is for the colored
families in the Tampa district.
Now, I admit that the results obtained in cost of living studies
depend substantially upon the accuracy of the method pursued; and
the only way that we will ever get accurate data upon which to make
wage adjustments in conformity with the increased cost of living is
through just such cost of living studies. The men in the Philadel­
phia district submitted evidence to the Labor Adjustment Board in
which they claimed that the cost of living had advanced 132 per cent.
They listed prices of things to show the correctness of their claim.
The trouble was that they did not weight the different items of
expenditure according to their importance in the family budget so
that ginger snaps and nutmegs counted as much as beans and bread.
The items of consumption must be weighted according to their respec­
tive importance in the family budget if we are to measure accurately
charges in cost of living. Our results show an increase of less than
44 per cent in the Philadelphia district in 1917 as against 1914; and



substantially the same result is shown in the New York district. And
it is most astonishing, to me at least, the degree to which other com­
munities conform to what we found in Philadelphia and New York.
The cost of living has increased with surprising uniformity through­
out the country.
We have the food budget for a workingman’s family standardized
fairly well. We know how many calories are needed to support life
and activity and approximately the kinds of food from which the
required calories may be obtained.
You will no doubt be interested in standards in other lines of con­
sumption besides food. Almost nothing has been done to determine
what kind and amount of clothing is essential in order to enable a
family to live on the far-famed American standard of living. The
only thing so far as I know that has been done, the only attempt
that has been made to standardize clothing expenditures, has been by
the New York State Factory Commission, and that was confined to
the clothing of women. We in our Washington study, the results of
which have been published in the Monthly Review of the Bureau,
have checked up the results obtained by the New York State Fac­
tory Investigating Commission. We find that for food—I am revert­
ing to food—the adult man can not be fed for less than 80 cents per
day; and that connotes a knowledge of food values and a scientific
utilization of all the calories bound up in the kind of food products
you buy in the market that very few housewives possess. I don’t
see how it is possible for any family to be fed on a basis of expendi­
ture that provides less than 30 cents a day for every adult, and I
will not stop to explain how we reduce all families to the adult male
basis. We allow a certain percentage for a woman, 90 per cent, a
smaller percentage for children under 16, and so on. Assuming fam­
ilies reduced to standard adult males, nothing has been done on cloth­
ing except as it applies to the clothing of women. The clothing of
women was of especial importance because of the importance of the
independent working woman in industry; not so numerous as men
but of immensely greater importance than their numbers would indi­
cate because of the effect of industry upon women and the effect of
women upon industry. We determined from our Washington study
that the independent working woman could not clothe herself accord­
ing to the standards prevailing in Washington for less than $125
per annum. When we go further down the line, taking up housing,
nothing has been done. What is the standard house for the standard
American family? We speak of the American standard of living.
What is the American standard of living? We do not know. We
know something about the standard requisites for food in the Ameri­
can family reduced to a unit basis. We know much less about what
is requisite to clothe an American family according to the much men­



tioned American standard. When we come to housing, we know
almost nothing as to the house that is adequate to enable an Ameri­
can family to live on this American standard. Should we have a
room for every member of the family ? Do we have a bathroom ? Do
we have more than one bathroom? Do we have stationary tubs?
What do we have in our standard house? I do not know, and if I
do not know, I know you don’t. What about fuel and lighting?
Again we are up in the air. What about rest and recreation? We
are just beginning to understand that rest and recreation are just as
much an essential part of the standard of living as are food and
clothes and a house. We are only just beginning to learn what Dr.
Mann has known for a long while, but unfortunately there are not
enough Dr. Manns to go around. Not every employer or establish­
ment is aware of the fact that rest and recreation are necessities.
What about vacations? That is something different from rest and
recreation. I, for one, don’t believe in confining vacations to those who
don’t need them. I would like to see everybody have a vacation. And
that means for the men and women who work with their hands, a
vacation with pay. What is the minimum of vacation in order to
enable a family to live according to American standards of living?
We don’t know. What is the minimum of medical treatment and of
medicines that is absolutely requisite to the American family? We
don’t know. We get the items of expenditure, all these items of
expenditure, in our budget studies but that does not give us what we
want. I am convinced that very few, if any, laborers’ families can
expend enough for doctors, dentists, and medicines to meet the require­
ments of a minimum standard of health, under present conditions.
What we want to know is the norm, what is requisite for maintain­
ing a minimum standard of health and vigor. We do know that in
these shipyard workers’ families there is too little expenditure for
the services of a physician. There is too little devoted to the expendi­
ture for vacations, and for rest and recreation. We can see that from
looking at the schedules. But what is the minimum we should exact
of employers, or set up as a standard to be achieved? We don’t know.
It is up to us to find out, and we ought to be on the job to find out.
What is the minimum of insurance that should be carried by the
American family? What kinds of insurance should be carried? I
can tell you some of the kinds that should not be carried. I can tell
you that industrial ifteurance is the most expensive luxury that any
American family can indulge in, and it must be put off the map and
cheaper and adequate insurance substituted that will give to the fam­
ily the assurance that it will not be driven below the poverty line by
reason of the ill health, sickness, accident, or the death of the bread
winner or winners of the family. How much reading matter is the
minimum requirement of the American family ? We know how little



was the expenditure for newspapers and books, but we don’t know
how much should be expended. And the miscellaneous items? We
know very little about them. Those are some of the difficulties, some
of the things we must do our best to find out about.
Briefly I must tell you what we are doing. First of all we get
budgets from these families. The agents visit the families, talk
with the housewife, go over the income and expenditures of the fam­
ilies. Some of the families have kept itemized accounts of the re­
ceipts and income of the family. Some have preserved the pay enve­
lopes, so that all the agent has to do is to copy the amounts down.
The income is obtained with fair accuracy in spite of the fact that
there have been enormous increases in wages in many of the ship­
yards. The income account is obtained in that way. The expendi­
ture account is gone over carefully, item by item. The different food
items are listed, so that the agent will not overlook any item and the
housewife estimates as accurately as possible what her expenditures
have been for the past year; the same is done with clothing, both for
males and females; and the same is done for house, fuel and light,
furniture, furnishings, and miscellaneous items. In that way we get
the quantity and cost of the family budget for 1917. Then in order
to find out what has happened to the cost of the family budget dur­
ing the four years covered by our study it is necessary to get itemized
schedules from the different stores that deal in the different articles
included in the family budget in each community surveyed. We are
taking our monthly retail prices of foods as giving us the most ac­
curate information obtainable as to changes in the cost of food.
Agents visit the representative stores dealing in clothing for males,
and for females, and fill out schedules for clothing. They visit the
stores dealing in house-furnishing goods to fill out the schedules on
furniture and furnishings. They visit the dry goods stores in order
to get the prices of drygoods through the period covered by the
survey. They visit the various stores that keep coal, kerosene, and
wood, and so on for all the articles of importance in the family bud­
get. They visit the real-estate office in order to get the rents in the
localities studied. In that way we get the changes in prices of the
different items of expenditure. Then we weight those different
prices of the different groups of items by the percentage of expendi­
ture for each of these different .items. In that way we get, not a
general average of prices, but a weighted average of prices which
shows with very much greater accuracy what has happened to this
thing which we call cost of living.
Now, in this brief presentation that I have made, it may strike you
that there is a large amount of estimate, and that a hundred per cent
accuracy is unobtainable. We might as well acknowledge right now
that the absolute does not exist; certainly not so far as cost of living



is concerned. But this is the only way that has been yet devised of
getting anything at all accurate or usable in determining what per­
centage of advance should be made in wages in order to make the
purchasing power of wages to-day what it was in 1914, let us say,
before prices began to boom; and when we have got data that is
usable, that will give us the knowledge to enable us to make those
wage adjustments, we will have done the biggest thing we can do
toward stabilizing labor. As for the importance of the other things—
I have left out of my remarks reference to those valuable things which
have been touched upon and will be touched upon by preceding and
following speakers—but I repeat, the most important thing that
can be done to-day is to determine with greater accuracy the advance
in cost of living—not for the shipyards alone; we need to do it for
every industry. We are just simply frittering around the edges.
We have covered the shipbuilding centers of the Atlantic and Gulf
coast. We are now on the Great Lakes and eventually we will have
to go to the Pacific coast. If we don’t go something will bust loose
there. We must get a more accurate idea as to this thing that has
been mentioned, the relative increase in the cost of living as over
against the increase in wages. It must be done. Then, incidentally,
if you will quit stealing each other’s men, quit advertising in the
newspapers, quit patronizing private employment agencies which
are playing the devil with you, and rely on the public employment
offices you will get laborers who will stick. Get behind the public
employment offices, and if they don’t fill the bill, why. get behind
them all the more until they do fill the bill. When I was in Cleve­
land I proposed this modest program, and I was completely swept off
my feet by the way in which my proposal was received. It was pro­
posed there seriously that at once the Cleveland employers cease
advertising for one month and get all of their help through the pub­
lic employment office. That rather scared me, because I was afraid
of what might happen. Don’t expect miracles from the public
employment service. Don’t ask too much of it. Get behind the pub­
lic employment office and support it, but don’t go to the public em­
ployment office at once and say, “ We want to get our help through
you. This is our order. Fill it.” They can’t do it. The Cleveland
office can not handle the work it now has. You must give it time to
expand. You must enable the Federal and State Governments to
put more funds at the disposal of their officers before you go to them
with the demand: “ Here are our various orders for labor. These
are the kinds we want. So many hundred of this, that, and the
other. Five hundred Class A mechanics,” and so on. I f you will
get behind this thing with the determination that you are going to
wipe the private employment offices off the map, put the newspapers
77920°— 19------- 4



back where they belong, so far as advertising is concerned, and quit
stealing from each other you can make it go.
Capt. F isher . I told you that nothing was “ cooked up” about this
convention, especially with regard to organizing future meetings,
and place for holding sessions, etc. I made an error in regard to the
latter point. We are fairly committed to Cleveland for next year,
as Cleveland was appointed for this convention and gave it up be­
cause they wanted to bring home to their own people the discussion
of these problems. I hope there will be no milling or attempt to get
the convention for next year by any other point. It belongs to Cleve­
land for next year. But the various local associations want to meet
after this session to consider the next year’s organization. You know
how loosely we are organized, half a dozen local associations elect
a delegate to a national committee of Employment Managers’ Asso­
ciations, and that committee has had no other responsibility than
arranging this convention, and has in large part dodged that. Some
people may feel that we ought to have a national membership asso­
ciation. So far there is no opinion about it, nothing “ cooked up,”
but several associations want to get together immediately after this
The C hairm an . I take pleasure in introducing Mr. William Black­
man, formerly of the Department of Labor, now director of labor of
the Emergency Fleet Corporation, who will address the convention
upon the subject of destructive labor recruiting.












You will note by these two cards I hold in my hand that I am
not going to make much of a speech. When I accepted Capt.
Fisher’s invitation to come up here, I told him that we were pretty
busy in Washington, particularly in our end of the job, and that I
would simply make a little talk. It has been stated by Dr. Meeker
that he is making a particular study on the cost of living for the
Wage Adjustment Board, connected with the Emergency Fleet Cor­
poration. It might be interesting to you to know just how that
board is constituted and what its functions are. About last August
there was considerable grumbling among the employees of the ship­
yards, then a new industry in this country. All of the iron trades
that were organized got together with the Navy Department, the
War Department, and the Fleet Corporation and agreed that some
tribunal should ascertain what the increased cost of living was upon
which to base a percentage increase in pay. The federated
trades, as I have stated, appointed one man through Mr. Gompers,
]resident of the American Federation of Labor; the Emergency
Fleet Corporation named one man; and the President of the United
States a third. Those three act as a board to listen to grievances,
gather data in regard to the cost of living, compare the different wage
scales, and in that way set a wage scale for the shipyard workers.
Before they started out on this work there was a firm on the Pacific
coast—and I don’t want to criticise that firm, for I live out in that
country myself—raised the wage rate considerably over that pre­
vailing in the vicinity, and boasted in the newspapers that they
were making money and could pay these high rates. Immediately
the union said: I f this one firm can pay these rates of wages the
other shipbuilders in the United States can pay the same rates. So,
when the Wage Adjustment Board arrived on the Pacific coast it
found itself “ up against ” that sort of thing. The wage board set a
uniform wage for the entire Pacific coast for all the leading trades in
the steel-ship yards, such as riveters, machinists, blacksmiths, and
boiler makers, of $5.25 per day of eight hours. Then a little later a
bonus of 10 per cent was added for six continuous days5work in each
week. On February 1 that rate was made permanent, making the




rate $5.77|, or $5.80. The board held hearings in the Delaware dis­
trict, in the New York district, and Great Lakes district, and the
entire South, and endeavored to make rates that would fit into the
various communities, taking into consideration the cost of living, and
possibly the difference in the cost of living in different communities.
But after it was all gone over there was only a slight difference in
the wages scales for the Atlantic and the Gulf coasts, including the
Delaware River. So we have one scale for the Atlantic coast and the
Gulf coast and one for the Pacific coast.
The subject given me is destructive labor recruiting. In the ship­
yards to-day there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 270,000 men
at work, and when the yards are fully completed and running full
force it will take 400,000 persons to carry out the program that is
outlined. And to us employed in this work, giving our best efforts,
humble as they may be, the building of ships is the all-important
thing and I know it is to you, for I think every manufacturer here to­
day, or his representative, is in some way doing something to help.
Now, what do we find with regard to the stealing of each other’s
men? While the Wage Adjustment Board was sitting in Washing­
ton trying to make a $5 rate agreeable to the wood mechanic in
Houston, and in Beaumont, Tex., and all through that country, some
of my friends from Puget Sound were offering $7 and free trans­
portation to the “ beautiful climate of Puget Sound.” Now, you can
imagine how a $5 rate would make the men in Texas feel.
I am giving you this little explanation so that you may under­
stand why the Shipping Board was really compelled to make an ap­
parently high rate.
Again out in the West the Manufacturers’ Association—composed
of the owners of boiler shops, engine shops, and repair shops employing
from 5,000 to 100,000 men—got together the4other day and gave the
molders and boiler makers a minimum rate of $6.60 and a maximum
rate of $7.25. Now, there will be no danger but what all those shops
will be fully manned. But shipyards are going to suffer. So far
they are not suffering out there because labor has been recruited
through the Labor Department’s agency. So the high wages on the
Pacific coast were largely due to this one firm that I spoke of in the
There are other firms who have increased wages by stealing the
men from one another. One division of the War Department, doing
some special work, went down into Florida and offered $3.50 a day to
the colored help, and succeeded in taking away two or three train­
loads and closing up one or two sawmills. The sawmill is a very
essential industry to the Emergency Fleet Corporation, which is, to
use a vulgar expression, “ pounding it over the back ” every day for



lumber, attempting to get lumber for Atlantic coast firms without
paying freight rates from the Pacific coast. Yet one department of
the Government will go and deliberately do that. So I say that there
is an abundance of proof that there should be one recruiting office
and that this office should distribute the labor to the essential indus­
tries to-day in America. The Labor Department has the machinery.
Mr. Clayton follows me, and will tell you all about it. They have
that machinery, they have some money, and they can get more if you
gentlemen will get behind and help them. And I want to say
the first office was established in Seattle. The reports came in
that all of the shipyards were using the office. They had plenty of
men and the turnover had decreased very considerably since the men
had all been coming through that central office. There are many
things that the central office can do, my friends. Things have been
said here to-day about the slacker. I shake hands with the man who
said it. He told the truth. We have lots of them. There ought to
be some way to make every man who works with his hand or his
brain remember that we are in war, and the worst the world ever
heard of, and that if he doesn’t do his part, no matter in what walk
of life, and do it well, I am fearful of the result. A central office will
catch the slacker.
Pardon me for speaking personally. I have a boy 22 years old in
the Aviation Corps. He writes his mother that his duty is flying
over Paris at night, and he tells her: “ I see by the papers that Mr.
Hurley, of the Shipping Board, has a good organization. I can not
knock the block off the Kaiser. I can shoot bombs from the air; but
it depends on labor at home to win this war.” I hope you will par­
don me for mentioning that from my boy, but it is the sentiment of
all those boys in the trenches; and unless we wake up to the fact that
they must receive the proper protection, I have doubts about the re­
sult. Labor must do its duty. It must give the employer at least six
days’ work in ev^ry week, and I believe it will if the problem is put
up to it in the proper way, and if you gentlemen will get behind this
clearing house and make the clearing house meet the needs. Every
firm and every shipyard in the community in which you live should
stop its advertising, stop its own hiring of men, and put its own
agents into this clearing house, and let it be one big clearing house.
I am going to close with one or two words more. I have come to
the conclusion that the thing to do, particularly as regards the ship­
building industry, which includes all manufacturers manufacturing
essentials that go into these hulls, is to make a uniform wage rate, and
make it high enough to meet the needs, as Dr. Meeker has stated in
regard to the increased cost of living, and let it apply to those who
are building the essentials. If they are hurt in any way by it let the
Government pay the difference between the present wage rate and



whatever the new may be. Then say to the employees of this coun­
try, “ For a like service you will get a like pay; and we desire you to
work at least six days each week.” And say to the employer, 44I f
you dare raise your minimum and maximum wage rates above the
standard we will take your contract away from you and paste it on the
billboard of the country, and show that all you are doing is to give a
high rate of wages to finish your own contract regardless of all the
other builders in the United States.” My friends we must look at this
as a program covering the whole United States. So far as I am con­
cerned, so far as the rest of my colleagues in the Emergency Fleet
Corporation are concerned, we can’t look at it in any other way. We
have got our hearts set on a certain tonnage to meet the emergency,
and in that way we believe we can get the tonnage.
I am here to answer any question. I am more than pleased to have
had the privilege of saying these few words, and I hope and pray
that this may be a beginning in making this splendid meeting of men
and women further realize that we are in a crisis, and that this is
the plan to meet it, and meet it as Americans always meet any crisis—■
in the right way.
Capt. F isher. It is a great pleasure to introduce Mr. Charles T.
Clayton, assistant director general of the Federal Employment


The war has brought new and strange demands upon the pro­
ducers. It has made proper many things that in peace times men
would have resisted. Upon a few things, which in ordinary times
we did not heed, the war has thrown a blinding flood of new under­
standing and shown us that we can no longer tolerate them.
One of the most interesting of these new revelations is our sudden
appreciation of the age-old existence of anarchy in the labor market.
It is well that we recognize the fact. Nothing so evil and so ex­
tended was ever remedied by accident. Action is called for—in­
formed action. Suppose we consider for a moment the problem as
it is revealed by recent experience, and try by the test of examples to
learn how, why, and how much this anarchy in the labor market
affects our industrial power to wage war to-day. From our con­
clusions we may be able to infer the extent to which this anarchy
will, if permitted to continue, be a handicap upon our industrial
defense in the peace competition we must meet after we have cleaned
out the Hohenzollern rats’ nest and freed the world from the Hun.
A few weeks ago a skilled machinist came to his employer, a
manufacturer of central New York, bearing a letter written by a
Rochester manufacturer, offering the machinist a job in the Rochester
plant, on war material. The letter, in glowing terms, told of the op­
portunities of Rochester. Skillfully, it referred to the patriotic
value of the work being executed by the Rochester firm; and in con­
clusion it summoned the recipient to report to a named recruiting
agent on a certain date, under pain of being reported a slacker and
a traitor to our country. The machinist is a young married man,
with a little home not paid for and a couple of toddling youngsters
to cherish. He wanted to be loyal and his quandary was perplexing.
So he consulted his boss, an old schoolfellow, who sent the letter to
Washington, wrathfully demanding whether it was an order, in view
of the fact that the man was already engaged full time upon equally
important war work.
Not long ago a large corporation near Philadelphia inserted large
advertisements in Ohio newspapers offering certain classes of work­
men a little higher than the normal wage then prevalent in Ohio, and
added, “ and double time for Sundays and holidays; plenty of over­
time all the time.”




Hundreds of men left war manufacturing jobs in central and
northern Ohio and paid their way to this plant. A very large num­
ber of them were of crafts not yet needed by the plant, although the
advertisement had called for them. These men were turned away.
They had thrown up jobs on war work. They had lost many days
and wasted considerable sums upon travel and subsistence. Many of
them were left destitute and hundreds drifted into near-by cities,
broken in spirit and embittered against the Government and our
country. For several weeks during the early spring the municipal
authorities of these cities were compelled to feed and lodge large
numbers of these broken men and there is reason to fear that
many of them have become casual workers. Those who were actually
hired found the promise of “ plenty of overtime ” was not kept,
while the locally impossible housing conditions and living costs soon
disgusted them and drove them out to seek more congenial, even if
nominally less well-paid, employment.
An enterprising labor agent of a Government plant in the South,
desiring to build up his organization, hired a brass band and sent
it in a motor truck to visit points frequented by Negro farm-hands
on Saturday nights. Torch lights, promises of a month’s annual
leave with pay and a little fervid oratory built up his needed force
quite rapidly. It also shut down about 75 square miles of farms.
A trainload of workers came from a western point to a new War
Department construction job on the seaboard. The Employment
Service brought them. The War Department paid the bills. The
job is vitally important and must be rushed to the limit. Like many
other jobs now being done by the Government the lives of many of
our men and the time when our full strength can be employed in the
War depend in part upon it. But bright and early next morning the
agent of a firm which has a Government contract and a plant a few
miles away came over, offered the men 3 cents an hour advance, and
took the whole trainload away.
A very enterprising labor agent in Tennessee showed his apprecia­
tion of the situation by sending, with a trainload of workmen dis­
patched to a Government contractor, a special agent, with instruc­
tions to deliver the men, take the contractor’s receipjt, and then bring
them back to be shipped elsewhere for another commission.
Hundreds of other instances occur—some scandalous, some trait­
orous, and others merely humorous, like the case of the zealous but
absent-minded young labor agent at Norfolk, who not long ago suc­
ceeded, by raising their wTages, in hiring two men he met on the
street, away from his own firm.
Now let us analyze these examples of “ destructive” labor recruit­
ing. What effect do such conditions have upon our industrial power



to wage war ? And what effect may be expected upon our industrial
powers after the war?
We note instances of appeals to workers on patriotic grounds, with
offers of comfort and ease, with lure of higher wages and of bonuses.
All these appeals are to the workers to do a perfectly lawful thing—
quit one job and take another. All these appeals are based upon
perfectly lawful grounds. Patriotism is all right. One may pay
more wages or give premiums or vacations if he wishes. So why
is this wrong?
Because no longer can the business man consider his own interests
solely. The interest of all must be the concern of everyone. The
domain of the individualist has lost another province; there can no
longer be anarchy in the labor market because we are all working
for one customer and that customer embodies our own rights to life,
liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness.
The wrong, then, is not a wrong per se but a wrong because of the
results it brings. What are those results?
First, a terrible and terribly increasing waste of human time.
Men lose time between jobs and lose again learning the duties and
the methods of the new job.
Second, an enormous waste in spoiled material and great reduc­
tion in output. A concern in Connecticut, engaged in a most deli­
cate piece of ordnance manufacture, makes one part costing about
$1,600 each; and the slightest error wastes the whole piece. New
men usually spoil half a dozen before they learn. It costs that firm
over $10,000 to hire a new man; yet another concern recently tempted
one of their men away by higher pay to do much less important, al­
though war, work.
Third, a huge waste of public funds; for at last all these wastes
find their way into the accounts and are paid for by the Government.
Fourth, a dreadful, disquieting labor unrest, a deep suspicion on
the part of the workers of the honesty and good faith and essential
loyalty of the einf)loying contractors. This is the worst of all.
Labor waste is serious; but delay, while bad, may not necessarily
ruin us. Material and money waste is an economic crime, but not
all crimes incur capital punishment. But when the wage earners
of this country, because of their employers’ blind insistence on an­
archy instead of order, upon their own way, waste or not, and with­
out any regard to the national interest, lose confidence in the good
faith of the employers, our industrial power is not merely weakened,
it is destroyed.
So we have a very serious condition, not mere theories,'to discuss.
And we need now, not recrimination, nor mere polite and meaning­



less resolutions, but real counsel, sound thinking, and decision upon
a course of remedial action.
This is, perhaps, the body of men best fitted of all Americans to
understand the problem and to propose a sound solution. I intend
to offer some suggestions for your consideration. It is my earnest
hope that you will later give them very serious study and debate.
There was a day when education was only for the rich; when the
poor man’s son went untaught and even the Bible was chained to the*
altar, a closed book because most men could not read. Society built
the public school and to-day the key to opportunity is free to every
American who wills to grasp and to use it aright.
There was a time when only the powerful had highways; when
transportation and communication were a prerogative and the com­
mon man was a bond-serf, bearing a brass collar and thralled to a
fixed estate. The spirit of liberty cut the gyves and threw away the
collar long ago and now our roads are public property.
It is but lately that it cost as high as two dollars to bend a letter
within the boundaries of the United States, when the carriage of
mail was unorganized and we had anarchy instead of postal service.
Now^ the postal rate is three cents, and one cent of that is contributed
to safeguarding liberty. The difference is because society has substi­
tuted order for anarchy in the postal communication.
In like manner society has organized markets for money—our
great banking systems—and every kind of property has its well-de­
vised market, except the first property of all, a man’s right to sell,
his labor. So in proposing a remedy for the present intolerable
conditions in war employment, I#am also proposing a very funda­
mental and urgent reform—that society provide order instead of
anarchy in the labor market.
1. This is a war matter, and war is not waged by individuals or
by States of the Union. The Federal Government is the proper
agency to organize the Nation’s labor market, just ^is it conducts the
Nation’s postal service and its financing.
2. This is preparation for national unity and efficiency after the
War. On every account it must be treated and handled broadly and
considered in the interest of the whole country.
(a) So first we suggest that all firms engaged in war contracts
agree that, as fast as the United States Employment Service pre­
pares itself and advises them that it is ready to assume the responsi­
bility, they will cease individual labor recruiting and take all their
labor through the Employment Service.
(b) That common wage scales be agreed upon by competitive dis­
tricts. It is not well to have such districts too small. Areas com­



parable to those within the employment districts, covering several
States in each, are suggested. These wage scales should be agreed to
by the employers, the workers, and the Government and be formu­
lated with regard to the changing cost of living.
There is not and will not be a shortage of man power. We
have 42,000,000 wage earners, and the transfer to war industries now
calls for about 10 per cent of that number. But there is a grave
shortage of trained man power. Every factory should commence
intensive training, first, of its leading men and foreman and then of
the rank and file. Efficiency is a much-abused word, but it deserves

It will not be necessary to suggest to trained employment men
that turning the job of recruiting labor over to the Government serv­
ice will broaden, rather than limit, the opportunities of the employ­
ment manager. The field for your great profession lies within the
plant and among its personnel.
Recent events have forced many employment men into the role of
labor recruiters—wasted their time, which should be employed in de­
veloping, training, satisfying the personnel. The employment man­
ager is the modern substitute for the ancient personal contact be­
tween the employer and his individual workers. To force such a
rnan---the embodiment of the sympathy, the regardful wisdom, the
conscience, the human relations of industry—into a competitive game
of piracy in which every industry walks the plank is perverting the
whole aim of the profession.

Much is to be done before the Government Employment Service
will be efficient. It is now quite extensive and rapidly being spread.
But it is in a state of flux and of construction. Since February, over
200 offices have been opened. The country has been apportioned into
13 employment districts and administrative superintendents ap­
pointed. In the 29 cities of over 200,000 •population, main offices
are being moved to central points and branch offices opened; 111
such branches are outlined and 36 actually open. An expansion of
force from less than 150 to about 1,000 in three months and of out­
put from 40,000 to 125,000 per month, can not be carried through
without some blundering. Yet the Service is making good. Its
personnel is afire with enthusiasm, and trying to keep step with the
vision of service it sees. In another 60 days there will be some 350
offices; every city of 25,000 population and nearly 100 cities of less



than that size will have each an office. The Public Service Reserve, a
branch of the Employment Service, now has 14,000 volunteer agents
covering nearly every village in the land and "coupled with the
Service. Soon will begin the struggle to secure efficiency of
May I tell you something of the Service’s plans for promotion of
efficiency? You may contrast them, if you will, against the private
employment agency of anarchic experience.
1. Knowledge of the employer’s needs is first in importance. The
employment office is not merely an assembling, it is a sifting agency.
When a wage earner is sent from a Government office to an em­
ployer the introduction card should mean that he has been examined
and has demonstrated competent knowledge of the occupation for
which there is a vacancy.
We project:
(a) A dictionary of occupational titles. This is now in course of
preparation. Each occupation is being analyzed in terms of duties,
and copies will be furnished each patron. With this in hand, cer­
titude of the employer’s wants will be easily attained.
(&) Specialization of examinations. Examiners in the offices are
now required to confine themselves to a line of trades and regularly
to visit plants to learn the duties of men in each occupation. You
may help in this phase by inviting our local men to visit your plant
and learn, first hand, both your labor needs and their own work.
Reporting of supply and demand of labor is being adjusted as
experience indicates, the purpose being that local supplies shall first
be canvassed and then successively each more distant locality until
every employer is supplied and every workman busy.
This, then, requires transportation of labor. Labor carried for the
War or Navy Department, the Emergency Fleet Corporation, or the
District of Columbia are transported upon Government transporta­
tion requisitions. Contractors doing war work must either place
the money to defray this travel cost in the hands of the Service, or
agree to see that it is refunded. Upon such an agreement being
made, a fund for advancing transportation becomes available and
the Service’s officers will secure and bring in the workers asked for.
There is an enormous transfer of* labor shortly to be carried out.
Anarchy exists in the labor market. That is only another way of say­
ing no means of labor exchange exists, for anarchy means absence of
order. Individual efforts, praiseworthy enough from individual
standpoints, are now criminally dangerous and must be merged into
common effort because this is now a common problem.
This is a rough outline of the present need:



Number of

War construction_________
Army personnel, civilian__.
Munitions_____ __________
Railways, track and shops.
Farm labor______________

7 0 9 .1 8 4

2 7 8 ,1 2 5

30, 000
878, 800
165. 916

1, 646, 931
3, 928, 956

Such a demand, added to the Army and Navy displacement of
nearly two millions, totals up 14 per cent of all wage earners and
makes it evident that the Government must assume the responsibility
and risk the occasional failure to secure full supplies of personnel for
some war activities. The present turnover waste is probably 15
to 20 per cent of all productive output, maybe mpre. This must be
cut, and soon.
The transfer of this labor can be had only by exercise of the
Government’s full powers. Manufacturers can not longer depend
upon the lure of wage raising and other temporary expedients; and
are playing themselves to a standstill. Industries not engaged in
war production must now be called on to resign the necessary com­
plements for the general good. But only the Government may do
this. Which industries must give up, what kind of labor must be
given and in what proportions, must be ascertained; and mistake
may bring on national disaster. Guessing or biased judgment would,
with such vital interests concerned, be criminal.
The simple and practical way is first to select the industries to be
fostered and to aid them; and to discourage extension of industries
evidently not necessary to war production.
Through the organization of a priority committee, to which all
necessary information may be available, using the powers of the
War Industries Board and the Capital Issues Committee and execut­
ing its decrees through the machinery of the Employment Service,
this problem is going to be attacked and will be solved. The only
question is how soon it will commence, and how heartily the thou­
sands of manufacturers and millions of workers will cooperate in
putting this essential program through.
Every man who hears me knows the situation. No one doubts that
present conditions are intolerable and are tieing made worse by the
zeal of individual efforts. In this time of national peril may I not
appeal to you to sink any pride of opinion, sense of individual gain
or advantage and do what our boys in the trenches and on the sea
are doing—unite behind the Stars and Stripes?



Capt. F i s h e r . I observed in Detroit, when I was advising a num­
ber of managers of industry, some of the personal methods of the
general managers, and I formulated this as one of the rules: The
general manager speaks last. So a man who is really the official
general manager of the United States Government is going to be our
last speaker, this afternoon. Mr. Morris L. Cooke began as a scien­
tific management engineer, and became at a later time an adviser to
colleges on the efficient conduct of the university training; then be­
came director of public works at Philadelphia, where he made a re­
markable record; and is now devoting his services to the Government.
It is a pleasure to call upon Mr. Morris L. Cooke.


It seems a crime to prolong any program at this hour of the day.
There are two or three things, however, that it may be worth while
to pass over to you. With two months of day-to-day contact with
Government problems in Washington I am led to believe that no
amount of preparedness, as that word is ordinarily used, would ever
have prepared us for meeting the great military problem that is be­
fore us. Obviously I don’t mean to say that if we had had more
foresight we would not have larger sources for the supply of guns,
clothing, perhaps have provided ourselves with some plant facilities
that we have found necessary, such as storehouses. But given all
those things that our advocates of preparedness had in mind, we
would still be pretty much in the same position as we are to-day with
regard to this problem. We are a nation of individualists, and it is,
I suppose, largely on that account that every time a new problem
comes up in Washington we have to spend weeks, and in some in­
stances months, in getting the desired cooperation on the part of
those whose cooperation is necessary. I don’t mean the situation in
Washington is different than in any other city of the country; but
after you have the desire, you still have the problem itself to carry
out, you still have the problem to work out; and perhaps that is what
makes some of you in the provinces away from Washington feel at
times that the Government at Washington moves rather slowly.
Now, because employment management to me is a scheme of coop­
eration, it seems to me that this gathering here to-day, and the spirit
that so obviously pervades it, is an omen of a better day. We have
heard the cry for a national labor policy, both in Washington and
outside of Washington. I go so far as to say that in the absence of a
considerable number of industrial establishments having employ­
ment departments, such a national labor policy would be almost fu­
tile, because it seems to me that the employment department is about
the only medium in American industry through which anything like
an adequate national labor policy can be developed. For that reason
I am going to suggest that the time is not far distant when j;he
United States Chamber of Commerce, or some other agency, will list
the larger industrial establishments in this country, and ask them the
question, “ Have you an employment department? ” and social pres-




sure will be brought to bear on those that have not these departments,
because they will have become a social menace.
Now, it is not enough in this situation for an employer to get freed
from labor troubles; it seems to me his industrial house must be so
ordered that he does not “ get by ” by accident, but that he “ gets by ”
by design, by having planned for it, and applied the formula which
the most general public opinion suggests is the one that should be
used in order to prevent labor troubles.
Now, there are two things that stand out to me as important in
this situation—one, the responsibility of the management; the other,
the responsibility of the men who toil with their hands. As for the
management, the matter of publicity with regard to the pay roll is
of prime importance. At a time when in so many branches of indus­
trial activity wages of the workers are made a matter altogether of
public concern, such as in the railroad or in Government contract,
where we have access to the wages paid, it does not seem to me that
it is inopportune to suggest that we are pretty nearly at the point
where every pay roll is more or less a matter of public concern. And
as for preparing for it I personally urge every client of mine to
carry quarterly, semiannual, and annual pay rolls and to attempt to
get the workers in the habit of thinking in terms of income. Piece
rates are futile. What you and I are interested in is what we earn in
a given year; and the ups and downs of the work in an establishment
should not be allowed to affect that. If you will do that, if you will
get your employees to thinking in terms of income, then the fluctua­
tion in work will nofc have serious effect, certainly not upon labor
troubles. It is the next step, because obviously if your actual incomes
are all right, and your people are only allowed to work two-thirds
of the time, from an economic or national standpoint the situation
is pretty much the same. And as leading up to that attitude toward
the pay roll you should make out periodically, certain not less fre­
quently than every three months, a list of those in your employ at the
several rates of pay, and that should be submitted or should be
inspected by somebody outside of your concern—the local chamber
of commerce, or some Government agency in which you have confi­
dence. But you need it; the employer needs a check; his own judg­
ment is not sufficient upon this point. There should be a line drawn
at a dangerously low rate of pay, and everybody who falls below that
should be under constant surveillance, because people, whether one
dozen or five, who are paid too low wages, are a demoralizing influ­
ence in any establishment. If, after this war is over, we have not
learned the technique of paying high wages and getting returns for
them, industrial America is doomed.
It seems to me that the great responsibility on the part of the
men is the fact that, man for man, the output of our shipyards and


other factories working on munitions of war is still going clown. I
believe the forces are started that are going to send that output
up. The fact that the output is going down is, of course, obviously
not the fault of the workmen. The management has broken down*
We must admit it. The variable supply of essentials or materials dis­
appearing overnight in certain communities is a mark against those
communities. The fact that towels for a ship are delivered before
the keel is laid is the fault of the management.
Now, I believe that organized labor is going to discover quickly
(hat production is labor’s responsibility, and that in a democracy*
no matter how desirable it may be to have schedule and planning and
the control of output, the leadership, in the hands of the manage­
ment, the “ pep,” the force, the driving force that makes for pro­
duction, must be labor’s responsibility. Nine out of ten men who
have discussed the subject with me claim that if we introduce piece
rates or set tasks where we have none now that would answer the
problem. There is an argument to be made for both. But it seems
to me that, in this crisis, when time is so essential, publicity, the good
old tried friend of democracy, is the only thing that is going to an­
swer the problem. We must in the first place after your job analysis*
or whatever you choose to call it, have publicity with regard to the
wTork that is to be done by any individual or group of individuals,
and give the utmost publicity to the daily output of the individual;
and allow shop pressure, social pressure, whatever you choose to call
it, to bear in such a way that the slacker is driven out; that the man
who wants to support his Government, as the great majority of our
workers do, will realize what his stunt should be and will be aided
by the management to do it.
Now, we are fortunate in having at Washington in the War De­
partment, the Department of Labor, and the Navy Department or­
ganizations being developed that can cooperate with you; that can
cooperate with anybody who cares to carry out any part of that
program. It is 'going to be brought about through myriads of ex­
periments being carried on in shops located all over the land, in
many cases one group working absolutely without knowledge that
another group is at work. But if we are going to learn to support
the large and ultimately victorious Army in Europe it is absolutely
necessary for us to increase the output of our shops, and that can not
be done except as management on its part uses more intelligence in
planning; and on the other hand organized labor, labor of all kinds,
gets together and makes this matter of increasing production its re­
[Session adjourned at 4 p. m.]


[The meeting was called to order at 8.30 p. m. by the chairman.]
[Mr. Winans, of Cleveland, representing the Committee on Printing
©f Proceedings, reported that owing to the lateness of the hour and
the expense involved, the plan of getting out proceedings of the
convention day by day had been abandoned. The committee re­
ported, however, that probably some arrangements could be made
to get out the report of the proceedings within a week, financial ar­
rangements for such copies as were desired to be made by the indi­
viduals desiring them. The committee reported that the material
would probably be available to the delegates in printed form be­
tween June 7 and 15, such printed report to be published by the
United States Bureau of Labor Statistics.]
The C h a i r m a n . I f there is no further business we will proceed to
a discussion of that phase of the employment question which is
affecting all of us.
A great many people are considerably aroused over the fact that
there is a great deal of promiscuous recruiting being done in various
parts of the country; that we are suffering from constant shifting
of men from one section to another. I think that many of you feel
that if the men would work the full six days, that if we could have
every man working all of the time, instead of transferring from
one position to another and losing anywhere from two or three
days to ten days or two weeks, there would be much less danger of
a scarcity of labor. Various questions have been asked on this sub­
ject, but I think that the best way to get at it will be to ask Dr.
Meeker, of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, to give us the results of
a recent investigation that he has made on the subject of turnover.
Dr. M e e k e r . Here are the results that came in yesterday and the
day before and the day before that. Here they are in rather an
undigested condition. I can report, however, that to date we have
received returns from 135. plants located in Cincinnati, 16 in
Rochester, 31 in Chicago, 1 in Pittsburgh, 3 in Rhode Island, 9
in Baltimore, 2 in Dayton, Ohio, and 1 in Syracuse. This inquiry
into labor turnover came about quite spontaneously. Capt. Fisher



came into my office and said be wanted me to speak on cost of
living. I said I was interested in labor turnover. “ All right,”
he said, “ I appoint you chairman of the Committee on Labor Turn­
over, to report at the Rochester convention.” That was a week or
so before the conference date. I said, “ All right, I will send out
letters right away to all the employment managers’ associations.”
I did so; these are the returns. It shows pretty quick work on your
part. It shows that you are at least interested enough in this ex­
tremely important subject to keep some records. Let me repeat,
“ Some records.” The more you study them the more you are in­
clined to emphasize the “ some.” This was not an investigation; this
was just a tryout. The real investigation is yet to come. “ Cheer up,
the worst is yet to come.”
I have here a schedule1 I want to put into the melting pot. The
bureau made a study of the turnover in 1915. I always feel of a
contrite spirit when I mention this study. It was made in 1915, and
nothing has yet been published. We got a lot of most valuable in­
formation, and believe me, the study w^as well worth making, even
if we never publish a scrap of the facts we uncovered. We went
out as missionaries in the great field of labor. I think nine out of
ten employers that we approached at that time, even the better class
of employers, the employers that were really awake to labor condi­
tions and the necessity of dealing with labor intelligently, did not
know a thing about labor turnover, and had to have it explained to
them before they knew what we were talking about. We went out
as missionaries. I don’t mean to say all the awakening of interest
in labor turnover which has occurred since 1915 was due to the
Bureau of Labor Statistics. Other things have happened besides
what the Bureau of Labor Statistics has done; and labor shortage
due to war conditions has put the employer right up against it,
and he is obliged to take thought where in former years it was not
necessary to take thought. You would have had your attention in­
evitably called to the importance of labor turnover even if wTe never
had gone out and preached the gospel of keeping your records so
that you might know what is happening to your labor force. But
with all the labor shortage, through cutting off the supply, that
unlimited supply that we have drawn upon in previous years, the
foreign immigrant, in spite of all the shortage of labor, in spite
of all the preaching of the gospel of keeping records of employment,
our records of labor turnover are not satisfactory; we still are feel­
ing around as to what really is labor turnover. How shall we com­
pute the percentage of labor turnover? Shall we take into account
only the leavings or shall we take into account only the hiring; or

1 F o r rev ised sch ed u le see A ppetulix A .



make a general average of both ? Or what shall we do in computing
labor turnover?
I wish that I had enough copies of this schedule to distribute, so
that you could look over it and criticize it and advise me what kind
of schedule I should substitute for this in making a fresh study of
labor turnover. I don’t know any better way of discussing this
schedule than to refer to certain items that caused me a good deal of
puzzlement, and ask you to advise me in regard to the inquiries on
this schedule. The first one that I want to call your attention to is
No. 7 on the schedule: “ Labor Turnover, year ending May 15, 1918.”
I have determined to discard May 15 because all the employment
managers I have conferred with say it is much better to have the
year end with the month instead of in the middle of the month.
I am willing to end where you tell me to. I don’t want to ask you to
give me anything you haven’t got. I have frequently been required
to accomplish the impossible, and been left free as to the method
I might pursue in accomplishing the impossible. I am not going to
do anything of that kind with you. I want to get what you have
and everything you have, and get it in the most intelligible way.
Now, gentlemen, the labor problem is the big problem before the
country to-day. There is but one industry in this country to-day that
has any claim to being called a legitimate industry. There is but one
business, but one science, but one art, and that is the business, the
science, and the art of licking Germany. As I had occasion to say in
a letter to the President some months ago, the labor problem is the
heart of the whole situation. In fact the war itself is but a tangled
mess of extremely complicated labor problems. This new industry
of fighting the Germans face to face in the trenches is merely a new
industry we have undertaken—an extrahazardous industry, we will
admit. From the front line trenches back to the least of the essential
industries the most important problem for you and for our states­
men to solve is the labor problem. There is no dispute on that. Then
why not handle our labor problem in an intelligent manner? Why
not get at the labor turnover, this thing which is cutting down pro­
duction, which is injuring our industry and giving it cramps so that
it ties it up in knots.
Labor turnover is injuring the individual workman by subjecting
him to perfectly needless accident hazards, and needless illnesses,
largely because of shifting from place to place. The worker who
has to work at unusual occupations and under unusual conditions to
which he is not accustomed is thereby subjected to new hazards of
accident and new hazards of illness. Why not agree to handle the
problem in an intelligent manner? Why not keep your records of
employment on the man-hour basis? This is the basis I am insisting



upon in accident reporting. You must compute your accident statis­
tics upon the basis of the man-hours worked by your establishment,
because it makes a great difference whether a plant works 120 days
or 365 days in the year, and whether eight hours or 12 hours consti­
tute the working day. In order to make our accident statistics com­
parable, industry by industry and plant by plant, we must get the
man-hours worked in each plant. Otherwise, the exposure to ac­
cident will not be the same for all plants and our statistics won’t
mean anything. For accident statistics it is absolutely essential to
have the man-hours worked in your establishment. For employment
statistics you need the same man-hour basis, but I shall feel that I
have accomplished a great forward step if I can induce you to keep
your employment records on the man-day basis. The man-day basis
would be accurate enough for the present. W e must agree, however,
on a standard and this is just the convention to decide what is the
proper standard upon which to compute the percentage of labor
turnover. I leave that to you to chew upon. I hope you will have
a good chew.
The next query that I want to call your attention to is “ Query No.
9,” which is entitled “ Length of continuous employment of persons
on the pay roll.” That should be supplemented by a similar inquiry
as to the length of service of those who leave, because we must have
the length of life of the “ dead ones ” as well as the “ live ones,” so
to speak.
The schedule calls for those who have been in continuous employ­
ment 7 days and less. Is it worth while going to that degree of re­
finement? The men in the Chicago employment group seemed to
think that this was a query well worth making. Most records sent
in don’t go below one month. It seems to me you are losing the
thing you want. You want to fix the floating casual labor, don’t
you ? And you are doing your level best to increase the number and
proportion of the casual laborers. You will go right on stimulating
the growth of the casual labor until you get behind the public em­
ployment office; until you put the private agencies off the map;
until you eliminate from the columns of the press these long and
most attractive “ help wanted ” ads. I have often looked them over
and wished I could lay down the burdens of my present job in order
to undertake some of the seductive jobs you picture in the Sunday
press. I would like to try it out sometime, anyhow.
I am of the opinion that we should refine as low as “ seven days
and under ” in order to determine the degree to which labor turnover
is a casual labor problem. I want to make this study as useful to
you as possible. W hy don’t you applaud? That is the place for
“ applause.” Unless I can do something to help you I will go back
to Washington and take up something else. Unless this study of



labor turnover is going to be of assistance in cutting down labor turn­
over and solving your~problem, it is not worth doing.
O f course similar queries should be answered in regard to those
who lea ^e. W e want to know the length of service of the fellows
who depart from the seductive jobs they have been induced to take
through advertisements in the Sunday papers.
The thing that interests me more than anything else in these queries
is the causes of labor turnover. That query was not included in the
original schedule, but it must be included in the schedule in order to
make this study worth while. When I speak of causes of labor turn­
over I don’t mean 66drunkenness,” “ unsatisfactory,” “ good of the
service,” “ trouble maker,” and the like. Anybody can answer the
query in that way with his hands tied behind him, blindfolded.
That does not tell anything at all. W hat I want to get at is some­
thing more fundamental than that; something concerning the
policy of the establishment. N ow , if we get these returns, we will
get them as the Bureau of Labor Statistics always gets everything—
under seal of confidence. W e are not going to reveal the identity
of firm “A ,” “ B ,” “ C.” W e want to publish the information with­
out revealing the identity of the firm in order to do your souls good.
That is my sole object in life : To do you and do you good.
I want to know if there is something the matter with your estab­
lishment that you can lay your finger on to account for a high labor
turnover; or if you have a low labor turnover, how you have achieved
it. It is more important to explain a low labor turnover than a high
one— much more important in these days of accelerated turnover.
A s a matter of fact, I think we get much more good out of holding
up the deeds of the righteous for admiration and imitation than
holding up the deeds of the unrighteous as a horrible example. I
want to hold up the optimistic side of labor turnover as much as
I want you to explain, in answer to another question, just what
you are doing about labor turnover, how you are dealing with it. I
know some establishments that seem to be working under very ad­
verse conditions, where one would naturally expect to find a large
labor turnover, which actually have a labor turnover of only 30 or
10 per cent, even in these times of high labor turnover. How do
they do it? W hat are they doing to hold their labor turnover down
to 40 per cent, when the average for those who keep some sort of
record is certainly above 100 per cent? Some employers keep no
records of hirings and leavings. There is a reason. Either the labor
turnover is so great that they don’t want to be comforted by the cold
tabulated statement of it, or it is so great that they have not clerical
force enough to keep tabs on it.



Are you giving sufficient attention to the feeding of your em­
ployees, to their healthful recreation, to their housing, to the ade­
quacy of means for getting to and from the plant, to industrial
hygiene, including safeguards from accidents? A ll these things I
have enumerated. The core of the labor problem is industrial
hygiene, which includes everything that makes for the safe conduct
of industry or business. It is just as unhealthful to fall into a ladle
full of molten metal as it is to breathe nitrous acid fumes or get
toxic jaundice from handling trinitrotoluol. No sharp line of distinc­
tion can be drawn between safety and hygiene. I should say that
the most hygienic thing you can do for your employees is to pay
them a living wage, if you can determine what a living wage is. I
want you to search your hearts and answer frankly what you are
doing to cut labor turnover; what further policy can be inaugurated
to reduce it still more. W e must reduce this waste in order to keep
product turning out of our factories, so that we may bring the war
to a successful issue. This brings you right up to the front door of
the general manager. Is the general manager behind the employ­
ment department, or is he in front of it? Is he supporting you in
your dealings with labor or is he obstructing you? W hat are the
relations existing between the general manager and the employment
manager ? I f you have no records I don’t want them \ if you have, I
do want them in order to do you good. But as I see it, the most use­
ful thing that can be done in this new survey of labor turnover is
to select the typical, representative establishments having the best
showing as to labor turnover, all conditions taken into considera­
tion, and a few showing the largest labor turnover, and get at the
true inwardness of the situation in both instances. That means send­
ing agents to camp down in your offices until they do get at the true
inwardness of the labor policy of your particular firm— the explana­
tion of your extraordinarily high or low turnover. Does that meet
with your approval ? Is that going to help you ?
I have made my complete statement. I am not going to say an­
other word “ though the heavens fall.”
Capt. F isher. Does Dr. Meeker want me to answer his questions
with regard to admitting women to the courses on employment man­
agement, now?
Dr. M eeker. Yes.
Capt. F isher . The courses are open to women. The first course
was strictly limited to pupils sent by manufacturers on war products.
It happened the question did not come up, because no manufacturer
certified a woman employment manager. A t Boston it came up in
this w ay: The management committee, feeling that all of the uni­
versities cooperating had taught only men to date, gave the first six



weeks only to men, because it was sufficiently a novelty to give a
course at a ll; and they did not wish to combine with that the novelty
of teaching women. Henceforth both in Boston and in Rochester
the courses are open to women on the same conditions as to men, al­
though we don’t expect that many' women will have as much experi­
ence as men.
A discussion is taking place in our committee as to a special course
for women, say three months, in which we would give them some­
thing of an industrial background as well as intensive training on
employment work, but that is an exceedingly delicate question, which
showTs we are giving extra consideration to the problem of women in
the courses. But be assured that women are as welcome as men if
they have had the proper industrial background. I have wanted
several promising plant women to enter this course at Rochester,
but unfortunately they had a different kind of training than the men
and were not certified by the employers.
Several successful women directors at Washington agree with me
that women must have shop contact before they can do as well as
men. No discrimination is being practiced.
E thelbert S tewart, chief statistician U. S. Bureau of Labor Sta­
tistics, Washington, D. C. In the description of the course which we
had this forenoon the professor stated that the question of tradeunions, trade organizations, and statistics had been left out of the
course as originally planned.
Now, I would like to ask this question: Isn’t it true that most of
the employment managers have that question of trade-unionism to
deal with immediately and all the time, and that it is the most puz­
zling thing which you have to handle? I think the experience of
every concern that has an employment manager or an employment
office and favors the open shop or distinctly nonunion shop is that the
friction from first to last is more or less upon the question of trade
organization and trade-unions.
In listening to the professor, when he said he had left out all
courses on trade-unions, I felt very much as I did some six weeks ago.
W e employed a girl clerk to help us temporarily in our statistical
division. In an hour or so the man in charge of that division came
in and asked me to transfer her to another division. I did so think­
ing perhaps the girl would show more aptitude somewhere else. Soon
the head of that division came in and said: “ You will have to take
so-and-so into the chief clerk’s office. I can’t use her.” I said to her,
“ It seems you can’t do our work.” She said, “ No, I can’t.” I had a
page of her work in front of me. I said, “ Is there anything that we
have in our line of work that you can do? Apparently you don’t
know how to multiply.” She said, “ No, I was sick the week they
l 6ai*ne& the multiplication table.”



Now, if I mistake not, if your students were sick the week the
trades-union situation and ppen-shop question were discussed they
would not get very far on an employment job. And when you leave
that subject out, aren’t you leaving out the only way that a fellow
can get a milepost?
Capt. F isher . I believe Mr. Noyes can explain Mr. Jacobstein’s
H ekey T. N oyes, treasurer, Art in Buttons (In c .), Rochester, N. Y .
I am sorry that Prof. Jacobstein is not here to answer you himself,
because I judge his remarks have been misconstrued. In explanation
permit me to say this: Our courses to be given in connection with
this work were outlined with a great deal of care. They were sub­
mitted to the university for guidance. A course on statistics might
have properly taken two or three months of time. I am sure there
was enough in the outline and enough importance attached to the
points particularly to have justified that time. W e felt that this was
a wTar emergency course and limited to six wTeeks. There was a course
given in industrial development; a course on the cooperative efforts
on the part of labor, going back to the guilds of the fifteenth and
sixteenth centuries. In giving the course we found it impossible to
do all that we would like to do; and of necessity, this being a war
emergency training course, we found it advisable to confine ourselves
to the practical things so far as possible, and also to point out to the
men what they might do at home. I am sure that the subject of sta­
tistics was handled in the classroom and the men that took the course
allowed for that fact. W e tried to handle it from the war standpoint
and the practical standpoint. W e emphasized the importance of
statistics. I am sure that if there is one thing that the men have
gained, it has been an idea of the importance of statistics in connec­
tion with labor turnover. W e did not go into the different theories
of statistics to the degree we might have; but if there is one thing
the men have gained it Jjas been to know where to look for informa­
tion. W e could not give it all to them. W e could not give them
everything in six weeks’ time. W e have had the advantage of having
a man in the library who has been able to give the men the methods
of searching for information which they can use in the future. I
think by looking up the subject of statistics in the future they can
gain more than we could give them in the classroom.
The same is true of the subject of labor organization and the his­
tory of the labor movement. W e discussed these questions through
all the lectures we gave, endeavoring in doing this not to take too
positive a side on one subject but to present the various sides, so these
men might use their own good judgment. I am sorry Prof. Jacob­
stein gave the wrong impression to anyone, particularly considering
the fact that it was a six weeks’ course.



The C hairm an . I know that some of you will want to ask Dr.
Meeker some questions. But Dr. Meeker has one or two additional
points that he wishes to bring out.
Dr. M eeker. I want to apologize for being obliged to go back on
my word so soon. I forgot to make the main speech that I had to
make to you. I want to say that as soon as we can get through with
these returns of turnover that you have sent in and the other returns
that will come in later, I will put them in shape and print them in
the official proceedings of these meetings.
D elegate. I would like to ask the doctor a question: Is he in favor
of abolishing the private employment offices throughout the country ?
Does he or the Government include in that category all the free em­
ployment offices conducted by the employers’ associations or other
organized bodies of that kind ?
Dr. Meeker. I would like to abolish all private emplo3Tment offices
conducted for profit. A ll other private employment offices would
necessarily have to be brought under very rigid governmental super­
vision. Otherwise you are not going to have a central agency to
handle employment. Great Britain entered this war with a tremen­
dous advantage, or rather, we entered the war with a terrific handi­
cap. Great Britain had a national system of employment offices.
Without that national system of employment offices it would have
been wholly impossible for Great Britain to put her army across
the British Channel in time to block the invasion of France. The
only thing that enabled her to command the force of men necessary
in order to move the guns, ammunition, and the other impedimenta
belonging to an army and to load the ships, was this national system
of employment offices.
The Government appealed to the national employment offices;
they drew the men from Leeds, from Sheffield, and from all points
©f the United Kingdom to the points where workmen were needed to
load the guns, munitions, and foodstuffs required by the army. It
is the only thing that saved the day and we have got to have as
complete control of the labor market in this country if we are going
to carry this war to a successful conclusion.
Now, the employment offices that are conducted not for profit
may well be left in the business so long as they are an integral part
of the national employment office system, and only under those con­
M r. E l l i o t t , of Boston, Mass. As a matter o f efficiency in conduct­
ing these courses, I am interested in arriving at a definition for labor
turnover. The Rochester course and the offices here may suggest a
definition; the Emergency Fleet Corporation has suggested one; and
nearly every magazine that deals with industrial management or



.similar matters contains a definition for labor turnover. I move that
we appoint a committee of five to confer with Dr. Meeker and report
on Saturday morning concerning a tentative definition for labor
The C hairm an . W ith the consent of those present the chair will
take it for granted that it is the pleasure of the house to do so.
[The Chairman appointed Mr. Kelly as chairman of the commit­
tee, with power to appoint the other members of the committee.]
Peter J. V an G eyt, employment manager5 Rochester, N. Y . I f it
is not too presumptuous on my part, I would like to say one word
more in regard to what we have had in the course. It was my
good fortune to sit under Prof. Jacobstein for a year in a course* on
the study of labor problems. In substance we got as much during
this six weeks’ course on the history of the problem in England and
this country as I got in this whole year. Not all the details, but the
sum and substance of it. W hat Prof. Jacobstein meant this morning
is that he did not give us all the things he would have liked to give,
because the time was too short. I know that is true about statistics,
because we did not get as much as he wanted to give us. But we got
the information which will tell us where to go to get more informa­
tion. The same thing is true of industrial management.
F . W . Burrows, editor, National Industrial Conference Board,
Boston, Mass. One thing that Dr. Meeker said brought up an ex­
perience o f a little while ago when I was in England where I had
been sent to study conditions just before the war, In Bradford and
Leeds they were attempting to do what Dr. Meeker has described.
There was a demand for 8,000 girls in those places and the govern­
mental employment agency had been asked to supply the need. They
could not do it. They had been working on it a good many weeks.
The reason was obvious: The girls would not go; would not move;
although they were nearly starving and needed every spare shilling,
they could not be induced to cross the border line between Lancashire
and Yorkshire. But the war removed all that and they were able to
accomplish their end. To be sure they had the machinery; they could
not have accomplished the result without the machinery; but they
had to have the spirit.
One other point: The feeling that the English had one single cen­
tral organization was quite as important in reducing the problem to
a scientific basis as any other. In fact, the problem becomes scien­
tific the instant it begins to center about one central agency, and the
moment you have a central agency handling this thing, this labor
problem, complicated as it is, difficult as it is, full of psychological
elements as it is, becomes a scientific problem. The problem of
human life and death became an actuarial problem the moment there



were combined insurance societies working on one principle to make
it an actuarial problem. The labor problem will be a complicated
one, impossible to reduce to a scientific average to-day, except as it is
reviewed from a single standpoint for a single purpose by a uniform
method. I hope that this war and the spirit from it will get into
everybody’s heart and urge him to do this in the right way and do
it now.
E. Parker, employment manager Fore River plant, Bethlehem
Shipbuilding Corporation, Quincy, Mass. I would like to say a few
words, since I come from a plant that has used the employment de­
partment of the United States— both the national employment serv­
ice, and the State employment service— for the past year. I will give
you a few figures to back up my statement. The Fore River Ship­
building Corporation, now the Bethlehem Co.’s Fore River plant, a
year ago last April had in its employ over .4,000 men. The manage­
ment decided that it was policy to discard all other means of recruit­
ing labor and to use the United States and the State employment
services entirely, which they did. They increased their force in one
3Tear to 14,500 employees in one plant. They built an entirely new
plant, with an executive force in charge, and put 2,200 men in that.
A ll this was done in one year’s time, with the aid of the Government
employment service. The entire recruiting of the laborers was han­
dled through its officers. W e used our representatives in its offices;
all advertising was directed from its offices, supervised from its offices,
and all applicants for employment at this plant were directed by
the advertisements to go to these offices. I merely wish to say this in
appreciation, as representing a plant which is acquainted with the
results that have been achieved by the United States Employment
The C h airm an . Is there anyone here who does not believe in a
centralized system of employment offices? Would anyone like to
defend the continuance of tlie private agency? I f you want discus­
sion, here is one question you can discuss. I would like to ask
whether it is the sentiment of those present that we would all be glad
to be able to have all of our wants and needs met through the United
States Employment Service? Is there anyone who dissents from
D udley R. Kennedy, industrial manager American International
Shipbuilding Corporation, Hog Island, Philadelphia, Pa. I am
coming up here on the platform to tackle the question that every­
body seems to be afraid of. I have had at least 12 people say that
they were not going to sell themselves to organized labor. Now
we are in war time. W e are here to talk “ brass tacks,” not theory,
and I feel that I can bring this up, because we have at Hog Island
put all our eggs in one basket with the Federal Service.


Having justified my coming up here to bring this question before
this audience, I think we should have an expression upon it and a
definite assurance that in this crisis, whatever our private views,
this conference goes on record that if it does use the Service, it does
not use it as a medium of unionizing men or concerns who don’t
want to be unionized. These things ought to be discussed here
openly and frankly, without rancor and without prejudice; and if
they are discussed here instead of being carried away and mumbled
over at home, we will know where we stand, and know what we have
to do; and now and here when we are together is the time to
find out. Can we find out ? Doctor, do you know ?
Dr. M eeker. I would like to ask if there is any attempt being
made by the Service to unionize plants.
Mr. K e n n e d y . Understand me. I am putting the question that
a lot of people have put to me, and that they are afraid to ask them­
selves ; and the question ought to be answered.
Mr. C layton . That question is a fair one. I will give you a
straight answer. The policy of the Service respecting that ques­
tion is this: I f a closed shop employing only union labor calls upon
the United States Employment Service for labor, it will send to that
shop the kind of labor that shop is taking— union labor, and nothing
else. W e have clients who have such contracts with the labor unions
and we send them the kind of labor they have contracted for, and
nobody else, because that is made by them a condition of employ­
ment. I see before me a good many men who represent open shops.
They will testify that we send them without any discrimination at
all and .without any record whatever as to union or nonunion mem­
bers the men they have asked to be supplied. That is our position
and our policy; and that is all there is of it, so far as I can say.
Mr. K ennedy . I brought the question up because I felt free to
do it. As Mr. Clayton knows we have turned ourselves over to the
tender mercies of his department. I believe that this department will
do exactly as we say and I believe we are in a crisis where we have
got to take a chance that they will do exactly as they say, in the
spirit and not in the letter. I know how Mr. Clayton and Mr. Densmore feel, how the Secretary of Labor feels, because I have per­
sonally talked with them. But I wanted you to hear it, and I was
afraid somebody would fail to ask the question.
Don’t let us make this mistake. W e are in a crisis. W e are doing
things we never would have dreamed of a year ago. W e are build­
ing in size and with speed we would have considered impossible a
year ago. Don’t let the desire to reduce labor turnover retard the
speed of Government work.



Charles B. Barnes, director, Employment Bureau of New York
City. I want to give you a little history. W e have had the State
employment system in the State of New York for three years and
in that time— wre now have about 11 offices— have filled over 100,000
positions, and I don’t believe we have ever had any trouble with
labor in any way in all that time. W e operate under a law which
says that in case an order for employees comes from a plant in
which there is a strike we are to post a notice to that effect in
any of our offices. W e are to give warning that we occupy a per­
fectly neutral position,, and we have carried that out. Three or four
times we learned after we had started work for a plant that there
was trouble there and had to stop. But following this policy we
have obtained the confidence and respect of both interests— we are
in close touch with unions, and the fact that we have filled all these
jobs will show that the employers have had some confidence in us.
I want to speak about something that I have heard mentioned
here. There is in operation in Rochester to-day an employment
office which is carried on under a system called the “ Rochester plan.”
I understand that some mention was made of that plan in connec­
tion with the course carried on for six weeks. From the way it was
mentioned it occurs to me that there might be thought to be some
connection between the “ Rochester plan ” and this course, and I
want to ask whether this body is in favor of the so-called “ Rochester
plan” of having an employment office entirely financed and run by
The C h airm an . I s there any comment on Mr. Earnest question?
I think perhaps it would be well to have some one here explain the
“ Rochester plan ” to us. There are several questions regarding it
here. I think then we can answer Mr. Barnes better.
Mr. W ilson. I am a little bit afraid that there is room for misun­
derstanding as to what the question of opinion just made really
means. I would like to ask Dr. Meeker and Mr. Clayton a question in
regard to it. The concern with which I am connected has used very
largely the State Emplojanent Bureau; in fact, practically all o f our
recruiting is done through that office, but that does not in any sense
mean that we do not have an employment department do our work
at each place. W e employ very largely applicants who appear there
o f their own volition. I would like to have it explained to us as to
whether, when we say we are in favor o f a central employment bu­
reau, we mean to cease employing applicants at our own doors, for
instance. I would like to have that explained.
There is one other point I want to ask Dr. Meeker. W e all agree
that what he is after is the right thing. I have within the last month
written several letters suggesting the same thing exactly anc{ making


recommendations to the various State and National authorities on it.
Each reply I have had in regard to it states in one form or another
that it is a very desirable thing, but they don’t know how to do it.
That is, they do not know how to do away with the employment
agencies. There seems to be no legal way of doing away with them.
Possibly we must put them out of business by not using them. A p ­
parently there is no other way. The Government does not seem to
have a wTay. I took that up with Mr. H . M. Hay, Secretary Daniels’s
Expert Aid, as he is called. He said that while it was a very desir­
able thing, it could not be done; and it could not be done by a procla­
mation because he wTas sure such a proclamation would not be made.
I f Dr. Meeker has any suggestions how to do it I would like to hear
Dr. M eeker. Use the other agencies.
Mr. C layton . Suppose I answer the first question by telling some­
thing about what they are doing in England. The British employ­
ment agencies are to-day used exclusively by a considerable majority
of the business concerns of England. They have a metal sign with
white letters on a blue ground, which states: u Labor at this factory
is hired only through the Labor Exchange.” It is optional with the
manufacturer whether he uses that sign. It simply means that if he
wishes to relieve himself of tramps, of men who go from agency to
agency, and to send them all to the employment office, the employ­
ment exchange lets him have the sign and he tacks it on his wall.
The applicants go down to the employment office and he gets them
from there if he wants to. He does not have to do that. That is a
question for him to determine. I think it is better if you do that way.
The Deputy Minister of Munitions, a large employer of labor, told me
when he was here this year that he had adopted that policy for his
own business after much experience in other means, and he did not
hire a single man, even at his gate, because he felt it better for his
business to send them awray to the labor exchange and get them from
there when he wanted them. But he wTas not required to do that and
we would not require you to do that. I do think you would find it
much better for your business even now, as rapidly as the offices can
be equipped in your vicinities, to turn over to them all you can, as an
incentive, and take only those that come to you of themselves.
D elegate. D o you think that would apply for a concern a consid­
erable distance from an employment center ?
Mr. C layton . Probably not.
D elegate-. I have in mind a place in California where there are
five or six copper smelters. Probably there would not be an em­
ployment office in that district.



Mr. C layton . That is a local condition.
I could not answer that.

Conditions will vary.

M ark M. J ones, supervisor of personnel, Thos. A . Edison Indus­
tries, Orange, N. J. It might be timely to ask Mr. Clayton as to
how the men were appointed from the employment offices.
Mr. C layton . The men in charge of our offices are called “ ex­
aminers in charge.” They don’t differ from the examiners in the
offices under them, though they are selected for their greater expe­
rience and are promoted from the ranks to the charge of the office.
Formerly all men in the employment offices were appointed through
civil service. Those were transferred. A few we got from the Immi­
gration Service as civil-service men. It appeared then that we must
have a large number of additional employees and we could not get
them except by waiting for an examination. W e asked the President
if he would not give us the permission, through waiving the Civil
Service rules, to get additional men. He did so. Under that arrange­
ment we are not appointing men from the Civil Service. That
does not mean they get into the service without examination, but the
examination application which we make those men fill out before
appointment is a pretty complete history of them and their expe­
rience, and when they get by that I feel fairly safe that they are
competent men. I want life history and experience and references,
and I look them up. That is the best we can do just now, when we
are appointing men at the rate of 25 or 50 a day. Later on we will'
get back onto the Civil Service examination.
D elegate. I think it ought to be brought out that when Sir
Stephenson Kent came to this country he was surprised at the indus­
trial conditions here as compared with the capitalized United K ing­
dom. The labor of Great Britain is 90 per cent organized; in the
United States it is less than 20 per cent organized. There is con­
siderable doubt as to the fairness of the treatment which the free
employment offices, operated by the manufacturers throughout the
United States, would receive. I don’t see that it would be dis­
loyal to permit those offices to do their bit in furnishing employees
to the firms connected with their associations. I understand that the
Government would like to have control over these offices.
The C h airm an . I think they merely want cooperation.
D elegate. There is a distinction between “ cooperation ” and “ con­
Mr. W in an s . I think that some of us are going to go home not
altogether satisfied upon this question of the United States Employ­
ment Service. Unless conditions are vastly different from what
they are in Cleveland, 1 think you will find it necessary to weed out a



large number of the men sent from the offices. W e find many of the
men sent out from there entirely unsuited for the positions they are
intended to fill. I think Mr. Jones’s questions are entirely to the
point. The difficulty with regard to the Cleveland office is this: The
office is situated on the fourth floor of the Federal building; the
room is such that a good many men would not venture into it at all.
The office is not open at the hours that the average employment men
are putting in. It is often closed in the afternoon and not open at
7 o’clock in the morning. Under those conditions we are not going
to get men in that way. I think this is the time and the place to say
W e put in a requistion to the Federal and State office for men, and
50 per cent of the men that came to us were unavailable because physi­
cally unfit or inexperienced. The men had not been selected; they
had simply been sent out. I think Mr. Jones’s question and the sug­
gestion raised by Mr. Wilson are very much in point.
Mr. C layton. I think that is a fair and reasonable stricture to
make, and I am glad that the objection was raised, because this is
“ in council,” and this is the place to raise the objection. I tried this
afternoon to bring home to you one request, and this gives me a
chance to repeat that request. W e are organizing offices so rapidly
and appointing men so quickly that we are getting a lot of people
who can’t give us the service.' Although the officeholders are better
than in some other services, yet they are not what they ought to be.
Although the salaries are not perhaps all that they should be, I will
tell you that the men we have are fired with enthusiasm and learn­
ing their jobs very rapidly. That Cleveland office we have not taken
up yet. Just now it is exactly as it was in the old days before we
took the service over. W e want you to help us and we want you to
help us help you, and here is the way we want you to help u s: W her­
ever there is an employment office, send for the man in charge of that
office to come to your plant, invite him to come himself, and teach him
and his men what you want. When you s a y , “ Send 10 machinists,”
they can’t tell what you want. W e have machinery never known be­
fore this War. How can you expect these men to know the machines
unless they see the machines? W e on our part are going to do all we
can to make these men efficient, in order to take from you the respon­
sibility of hunting up labor. When that is done, we will have sifted
the undesirable out and will bring to your gates for your examina­
tion those who seem to us probably satisfactory. W e can’t guaran­
tee that the men we send will be satisfactory. So we are going to
leave the final determination of those *nen to you. W e are going to
do the sifting and bring to you as nearly as we can the men you
probably will want to have.
77920°— 19------ 6



Mr. L. P almer , of Buffalo, N. Y . I have been much interested in
the question this evening. I had been in contact with the Federal Depa rtment o f Labor and their division o f employment. I come here
from a State that Gen. W ood says must furnish 40 per cent of the
vital munitions that are going to win this W ar. W ithin the last
week the governor of that State has authorized the department that
I represent to enter into an agreement with the Federal Department
of Labor on a cooperative employment basis. I don’t think there has
been enough said about cooperation among the various States that
already have employment agencies. W e have in a number of States
some very effective organizations. I don’t know that our own is
just what we would like. But, working with Mr. Clayton and Mr.
Densmore, with the backing of the Secretary of Labor, and the
governor of our State, we hope to be able to handle the employment
problem of our State satisfactorily, not only to the employees but the
employers. W e are a balanced organization. W e are a department
of labor and a department of industry, and we maintain that we can
not serve one without serving both. W e have confidence in the
organization with which we joined hands at Washington. W e be­
lieve that you men who represent the employers and you who rep­
resent the employees will be well pleased when once this plan is put
into active operation. W e will have to try it out. Some have asked
what are we going to do with the men who are rejected. I don’t
doubt that when you bring your laboring men in there in the way
you are doing it now, you are rejecting as many, and perhaps more,
than those who will come to you after being surveyed by the Federal
employment agencies. I just want to bring out this point from a
State that is trying to do her part to win this W ar.
Dr. M eeker. Mr. Jones asked whether I wanted the Federal Gov­
ernment to take control of the employers’ employment bureaus or
departments. I don’t want it. I think that the goal we will ulti­
mately reach# was very clearly stated by Mr. Clayton in answer to
Mr. Wilson’s question. Eventually you employers will come to the
Federal-State employment offices to get all of your help. A s I under­
stand the situation in England, it is a little bit different from that
indicated by Mr. Clayton. A ll of the Government establishments and
the controlled establishments get all of their labor force through the
employment service. And it practically amounts to this— and 1
have talked with Kent and Curran, and half a dozen other people
from Great Britain— that the only way that an employer can get
employees is through the national employment office. He can get
material only through the priority board, and employees from the
national employment office. It absolutely freezes out the nonessential
industries and puts the priority industry in position to get materials
and men. That is the ultimate result aimed at.



O f course, now, neither the Federal nor State system can handle
the employment situation, and we have to make use not only of the
employers’ employment offices, but of the private employment offices.
W e have to put up with the infernal nuisances. But eventually I
think the problem will solve itself. W hy worry about it? Use your
employment offices with discrimination and judgment. And if there
is any complaint in Cleveland let the complainers bring the com­
plaint up to Mr. Clayton. Clayton’s business is to see that the service
in Cleveland measures up to the standard. May I repeat my remark
regarding the fright that I had in Cleveland? Mr. Fullerton boldly
suggested that for one month the employers of Cleveland stop
advertising and go straight to the employment office for help, and
I cried for “ help ” at once because I was scared to death. I was
afraid the employers of Cleveland would put an impossible strain
upon the offices which would not only crack them, but smash them.
And then the employers would say, 44That is the Government office,”
and go back to stealing and the other things that all of you do.
1 want to get Clayton interested in dealing with the Cleveland
situation, and I want to get him interested in every city, too, and
improve the employment service until you are obliged to use the
public offices because they give the best service available.
D elegate. I f this convention went on record as indorsing a
national employment organization as such, would that also involve
a standardization of wages to be paid to employees coming from this
organization ?
The C hairm an . It was not the chairman’s intention to put the
convention on record here. I simply put the question whether there
were any who disagreed. I think the gentleman has brought up a
point which we may well pass to, if you gentlemen are willing to
remain. It seems to me we have a very vital problem here.
L. S. T yler, vice president Acme W ire Co., New Haven, Conn. I
would like to ask Mr. Clayton if it is the intention of the Federal
bureau to give any information to the public as to the affiliation of the
managers with the local board ? The charge is freely made that the
bureaus are in the hands of the union. Representing a small concern,
as I do, we are absolutely tied up to what the larger concerns do in
connection with these Federal employment bureaus. I f they don’t use
it, we can’t, simply because the labor is going to large munitions con­
cerns where the high wages are being paid. I f those concerns are
not using the bureau and we are, we are going to get very few and
undesirable workmen.
P. W . K in n e y , employment manager, Gleason Works, Rochester,
N. Y . W e feel that we have a very easy employment problem, chiefly
due to our reputation with mechanics in the city of Rochester.



They feel that they will get as much money as with any other firm,
and. fair treatment. W e have been building up that reputation for
a good many years. W e have more applicants at our door than we
can take care of. W e have many men come to us who are recom­
mended by their friends. W e believe that they are the best appli­
cants ; they make the best help. Up to the present time we have had
no necessity to call on sucl\ a bureau as the United States bureau.
I f we did have such a necessity we would be glad to call on them.
But, owing to this policy that we have had for a great many years,
we feel that it would be an error to limit the employment of men
at our doors, or to limit the employment of these men who come to
us recommended by their friends.
Mr. Clayton . There are two questions. I wondered what was in
the back of somebody’s mind a while ago by a seemingly irrelevant
question having a bearing upon appointment of employees in our
service, whether they are appointed as labor-union men or not.
There are some labor-union men in the service, some in the offices.
D elegate. Are you going to let the employers know that ?
Mr. Clayton . W e don’t think we should be required to give a
bond or become indorsers of the affiliations of our people. W e want
people in the Service to give service. W e don’t ask them whether
they belong to a union or not. Some of them do; some of them, I
presume, do not. I remember some who were sent to me by the
Bethlehem Steel Co.’s employment manager. I wanted some men of
a particular type, and he said he had some. I don’t know whether
they are union men or not. W hat I want to know is whether they
know their job. And they do. One came from the Brotherhood of
Carpenters, a first-class man, doing good work; I don’t know any­
thing about his union affiliation. I wanted a man who knew car­
penters, and he does; he is a first-class judge of carpenters. Whether
a man is a union man or not is not the business of the Employment
Service. The only place where that does count is where a man
has a closed shop and asks us to get union men. Then we have to
ask the question.
W e have one office at Seattle which supplies only closed shops.
I think nearly all the men in that office are also members of some
union out there. Those men are put in conjointly by the Shipping
Board and the Employment Service. The Shipping Board pays
one-half of their salary, and that office supplies all the shipyards
around Seattle. That office carry out that rule, because the
yards themselves won’t hire anybody but union men.
D elegate. Mr. Clayton has opened an office in South Chicago,
situated in the second story, reached by a winding stairway, and at
the rear of a hallway. Nobody knows it is there. And the class of



men sent from that office has been very inferior; we have been able
to accept less than 10 per cent.

C la y to n .

I did not even know it was there.

The C hairm an . It is a pretty large job to build quickly such a
large organization in 48 States. It would appear that the thing
to do is for the employers in each locality, if their Government
employment office is not satisfactory there, to report such fact to the
employment department, in order to give an opportunity to straighten
things out.
S. P. H a l l, employment manager, Morgan Engineering Co., A lli­
ance, Ohio. I also have a complaint to make. I am very busy steal­
ing 2,000 mechanics from the rest of you. I follow the lead of any­
thing that develops in regard to getting mechanics. I started a cam­
paign in Ohio. I received three or four letters from a certain com­
pany. When I was told to cease, I did. I wrote to the Cleveland
office and my letter came back dead. I wrote to nearly every city
within 500 miles of Alliance, Ohio. I received just one answer, and
it took me a day to answer the questions. They wanted me to go
back to 1917.
J acob L ightner , director employment bureau, Pennsylvania De­
partment of Labor and Industry, Harrisburg, Pa. I have been
listening with a great deal of interest all day long as to the causes
of labor turnover; how the study of statistics is going to overcome it,
and so many questions of like nature that I am afraid that you are all
going to get tired, as I am. The cause of labor turnover lies with em­
ployers. A steals from B. Do you know that there is a trust among
the paid employment agencies— a paid agency in one city, and an­
other in another, and so on all over the State ? Do you know that you
are buying the same class of fellows that are passed from hand to
hand? You do? Now, how are we to overcome that? Mine was
the first experience in organizing the employment office of the State
of Pennsylvania. It was the first office organized up to that time.
No man who could get a position free thought he was anything but a
charity patient. That is what the workmen thought. I recognized
this when I went out to talk to employers about supplying them with
labor. They said, “ Mr. Lightner, it is all very well, but we don’t want
just cripples and consumptives.” I don’t blame them or you for
being skeptical; and I don’t think it is in the minds of the United
States officials to deny you the right of having your own employment
office to give to the men a second examination when the men of that
service send a square peg down to your office to fill a round hole. It
is up to you to make that peg round. You can’t make a man tell the
truth. Many men have come into my office. W e have grown quite a
little, and, with the cooperation of you employers, we are going to



grow more. And you don’t need to have one bit of fear. A man
comes into our office and tells me in answer to the question as to what
kind of a mechanic he is, “ a first-class carpenter.” W e have no way
to disprove his statement. W e can put that man through an ex­
amination. Suppose he is a good liar. He will say he fooled us.
The time comes when he finds he has fooled himself. It takes time
for all the people to “ get wise ” to that fact and play fair with us.
And when they do come and start playing fair with us we are going
to be in a position, with the aid of the National Government, to give
you the kind of a man that your specifications call for. I f it is for a
union man that is what 'you are going to get. I f yours is an open
shop that is the kind of man you are going to get— what we can get
and the best we can get.
Now, as to how to prevent labor turnover. You are the only ones
through whom labor turnover can be stopped. W h y are there so
many calls to our offices ? W hy, they have run up into the millions in
the whole United States. W hy is it that Jones over here is asking
for 2,000 men? It is because Bill Brown stole more than that away
from him, and the pace agent hoodwinked him. Now, quit stealing
and patronize these offices; and I will venture to say that in one year
from now not an employer of the State of Pennsylvania will be
compelled to ask for as many as he is asking for to-day. Neither will
the turnover be so high, and you will get better results, and your firm,
instead of spending five or eight or ten thousand dollars a month to
keep your plant supplied will be spending only five where it is to-day
spending a hundred dollars.
D e le g a te .

W e have been attempting to do some business with

the employment agency at Youngstown. W e asked them for boiler
makers for a month. I f I had waited on the State employment
agency we would not have gotten them for a month. A s far as the
Pennsylvania State employment office is concerned I have had some
experience. For your personal benefit I will tell you what I found.
I went to Philadelphia for some bricklayers. I went to the employ­
ment agency in Philadelphia and told them what was required of
these men. They immediately told me my wants would be supplied
and requested me to call around at 2 o’clock. I went around at that
time and found in the first place that there were ten times as many
men as I wanted. Most of them were of the hack driver type, and
never saw a brick during the year. They were dock hands, and their
principal equipment to do this kind of work was a hatchet and a
trowel. And you men know about how much a bricklayer can do
with a hatchet and a trowel.
A s to the hiring of labor through the United States Labor Depart­
ment, I would like to know if we are required to accept those men on



their introduction from the Department of Labor. The reason I
raise the question is this: Our chief product in Youngstown is steel.
It is something like the Heinz district, there are 57 varieties, and a
man who has had experience in labor wTork, which is very expensive
through there, or technical work, that fellow has no idea of what is
required of a man in a steel plant. There are certain classes that fit
into certain jobs. There are certain others that won’t do on other
jobs. They are one hundred per cent efficient on some kind of jobs
and no good on others. W e are making munitions, and if we are
compelled to take these laborers upon the examination of these labor
bureaus, you can see how far wTe are going to get with our W ar if we
are not allowed to pick our men. Must we accept these men, or can
we pass on them ?
The C hairm an . I am going to suggest that you ask Mr. Clayton
M r. A lfred T hompson, employment manager, American BrakeShoe & Foundry Co., Erie, Pa. A question that interests me has not
been mentioned at all to-night and that is this: I have 7,000 men to
get and I am going to get them somewhere. I have petitioned the
National bureau of labor to supply that want. They have not done
it. I have petitioned the State employment department and they
have not done i t ; and I am going to go out and get them anywhere
and from any firm not making munitions that I can find. The city
of Rochester wrote me a nice letter and said I was recruiting labor
here, and asked me to withdraw my men. Gen. Pierce wrote me to
stop, and I said, “ I am going to get these men if I possibly can.” I
will not hire a single man working on war work if I can help it.
Every man I put on the road has positive instructions to hire no men
working on war work. And your Symington Co. wrote me here that
I was hiring men. And I stopped. But if any one of you men will
not get back of this job the Government has given us to-day he is not
a man. My grammar may be “ bum ” but my heart is in the right
I went to Washington in January and tendered my services. I
have been a production manager for 30 years; have had charge of
some of the best shops and put them into successful operation; and
I am a successful manufacturer, if I do have to come here and say so
myself. I am no novice. I have hired labor for 32 years; and I know
how to get it, and I know how to take care of it, and I know how to
fire it. I have a regular man’s job. I have charge of housing and
welfare work, and everything that pertains to the care of men and of
everything that makes things pleasant for them, that goes into mak­
ing a man’s life worth while. I am sincerely interested in every man
and woman on our pay roll.



Now, you are criticising me. I do not want to talk all night, but
I want to tell you gentlemen that I am not a fit subject for criticism—
not the way you are doing it. Up at Erie we know that we are in
war. And we are going to a knock the block off ” the Kaiser, and we
are only going to do that when every man gets back of this game in
the proper American way. I sent my boy to France, and he is in
the trenches working there; and I am going to work 24 hours a day
to make it possible for him to do the job he went over there to do.
I f any of you manufacturers in'the city of Rochester have got a man
on your pay roll that is not working on war work send him to m e;
1 will use him ; I will give him better wages than you. I want you
to believe that what I say is true— that we will not hire a man who
is on war work. And we feel that we have the privilege of hiring
everyone who is not on war work.
Mr. Clayton . I f my friend from Erie were not so hot I would say
he made me think of a fresh cool breeze. I like the spirit, even if
he has got it wrong, and he is wrong. He has one thing: Every man
in the United States ought to be on war work, if he is not already
there. Let me say that the American Brake-Shoe & Foundry Co.
does not need to feel that it can’t call on the Employment Service and
get real employment service. The United States Employment Serv­
ice does not expect to send men to employers and require them to take
them. W e send them to you and you hire them; and we want you
to keep that up. I am going back to Washington and I will be there,
or somewhere where I can be reached. When anything goes wrong
with the Employment Service let me hear about it. W e will get busy.
W e are in the business to organize the labor market for the United
States of America, and w*e are going to do it. W e have got to have
a real organization to take care of labor, and we are going to “ put
that across.” But you must get behind this service, and that is
what we want you to do.
[Session adjourned at 10.30 p. m.]

C H A IB M A N :




C H IC A G O ,






[The meeting was called to order at 9.30 a. m., Mr. Ralph G. W ells,
temporary chairman.]
Mr. W ells. I was going to suggest in regard to the continuance
of the discussion last night that there are a number of other phases
of that question which I think we should take up. I should think
that instead of stating specific instances where firms have been doing
destructive recruiting, or where firms have been securing the co­
operation wanted, we should confine our discussion this afternoon to
the question of general policy. I think we can more rapidly arrive
at a conclusion which will be constructive by making our discussion
deal with the general question of how we should handle advertising,
the regulation of rates, and other similar questions which have an
important bearing upon this recruiting of labor during this present
It gives me great pleasure to introduce as chairman of this session
Earl Dean Howard, of Hart, Schaffner & Marx, Chicago.
Mr. H oward. I have to apologize for being late in arriving in the
city on account of my train being late. Therefore, I am quite as
much in the dark as to what is going to happen this morning as
anyone here. I am told, however, that the first speaker is Miss
Helen Bacon, executive secretary of the mayor’s Americanization
committee of Cleveland, whose topic will be “ The management of
foreign-born workmen.”




SE C R E T A R Y ,



C O M M IT T E E ,

OF C L E V E L A N D , O H IO .

I had prepared what I thought would be the best sort of taJk to
give you this morning, but after listening to the very excellent ad­
dresses yesterday, I decided to change it and fit it more closely into
the rest of the program. I noticed yesterday that even though the
program was for employment managers, there was no attention
paid to the foreign workman as a special problem. I feel that the



things-that will apply to the American workman are not as effective
with the foreign workman; that he needs special attention, now that
so many of our American boys are leaving for the War. It is going
to leave in our industry a shocking proportion of men who are for­
eign born. It is up to us to make these men just as American as
we can.
Some one said to me yesterday, “ Don’t you think that now that
there is no immigration we can catch up during this period ? ” I
wonder how, after 20 years of comparative neglect, of letting the for­
eign born go their own way, we can expect them all of a sudden to
change their point of view, and to react in a minute’s time to the in­
terest given them. It is impossible. There has been no apparent
need for them up to the present time to learn the English language;
the}^ have had their own community. I wonder how many of you
have made it a condition of employment that a man should learn to
speak English. Now, we must convince them that we are sincere in
our demand that they must understand and speak English if they
are to become real Americans.
The average foreigner does not know our America. W e have taken
no pains to bring him into American social life, or even to acquaint
him with ordinary American institutions. W e have left him to his
kind and practically excluded him from our society. There is a fine
Polish lawyer in Cleveland. Instead of calling him an American
citizen of Polish birth we say “ A Polish lawyer ” ; and have set him
apart from our American institutions. He is far superior, in his cul­
ture and ideas, to a good many Americans. I was interested in talk­
ing to a man who was a member of a league formed by the Commit­
tee on Public Information at Washington who has got many of these
foreigners interested in America, and got them to take out their
papers, and got them to consider America as a permanent place to
live in. He said that foreigners have felt this attitude of aloofness
on the part of Americans toward them so much that they have gone
back into their settlement. As far as the mutual benefit societies, for
instance, are concerned, instead of bringing the foreign born into the
central organization they start a foreign branch; and the foreigner
is kept with his own people from the time he leaves his country. I
think we are to blame.
It would seem, as a matter of fact, that the factory is the only im­
personal institution at the present time which has a natural contact
with the foreigner in America. You often object to the foreign
clergymen being all-powerful among his own people. But, with a
few exceptions, these clergymen are the only people who have inter­
ested themselves in their people. W e have only ourselves to blame
for the fact that we do not mean any more to the foreigner than we
do. O f course, there are exceptions. There is the occasional man



who, after he has finished his day’s work, will go out and find a night
school, but he is all American in spirit and will get along without
our interest.
I wonder if any of you, in looking over the foreign people in your
plant, have taken into consideration whether there are any divisions
among them. Do you realize that the only people in the Central
Powers who really have any voice at the present time are the Austrians, the Hungarians and the Germans ? A ll the rest are as antago­
nistic to the Government of Germany and Austria as we are. Those
oppressed people in Europe have been fighting that Government for
centuries. I f they understood our attitude, if they understood that
they were making munitions in your plant to fight the power that
they have been fighting all the centuries, what a response might be
gotten from them. An experiment was tried at the Chillicothe, Ohio,
camp for drafted men, where a third are foreigners, many unable
to speak the English language. A t the time our country declared
war on Austria-Hungary these men, men of the subject races of Aus­
tria-Hungary, were declared alien enemies. A t that time there were
at that camp about 1,500 men who came from the different subject
races of Austria-Hungary. O f that 1,500 there were 800 who had not
taken out their papers. Men who knew the languages of these people
told them the purposes and aims of this W ar. After the conference
was over, 90 per cent of the 800 enlisted as volunteers in the Army,
and most of the 10 per cent who did not have dependents and had
not known that they could claim exemption on that score. I want to
read a little selection from a letter. The letter was written in
Slovenian by a man— just an ordinary laborer— who was drafted and
sent down there. When the order was given that all of these men
were to be relieved from service his brother sent him a suit of clothes
to return to Cleveland in. This is a part of the letter which he wrote:
I received the civil clothes sent me from Cleveland, and at the same time
a thought occurred to me, which never left me— that I should feel ashamed to
leave the Army and go back to civil life. I am a Slovene myself and my
father and grandfather never had any opportunities to fight for liberty. Indeed
they fought for hundreds o f years under the command o f the Hapsburgs to
continue slavery and tyranny. Dear brother, the suit o f clothes you sent me
I sold to-day to a man fo r $30 who thinks less than I do.

I think that that is indicative of what we could get from our for­
eign-born people if we put ourselves out to get it.
W e wanted to know, in our study of the Americanization prob­
lem in Cleveland, what other people were doing. O f course, many
of the draft camps have foreign workmen in them who speak very
little English. W e sent to these camps letters asking them what
they were doing along this line. Nearly all were teaching English,
but only in the most perfunctory way. They were teaching the com­



mands of the officers. They should take up the explanation of the
causes of our war, in foreign languages, if necessary. Absolutely
everybody ought to know why we in America are at war. But you
must remember that these people have not the sources of information
we have, and that they do not know. A great many of these men did
not know that conscription was something from which they could
claim exemption. They assumed that it was the same as that'in
Europe. In many cases we have had to recall men because they
had left their families, which made a bigger burden on the State
than if the men were at home and somebody else had to take their
places in the Army. It is said to be true that the Italian failure was
due to the fact that Italian soldiers had not been informed by their
Government what they were fighting fo r ; and propaganda was given
them by the Austrians through Italian papers. That destroyed their
In some cases— bringing the subject back again to your factory—
the placing of certain nationalities together might make a big compli­
cation in a department. I f you have an Austrian as foreman over a
gang of Slovenians, you are continuing the same feeling of antago­
nism which has existed for centuries. I f you put a Slovenian over an
Austrian, I venture to say that developments would be just as bad.
I don’t mean to say that you should know everything about all the
different nationalities, but there are certain elemental things about
each one that you should know if you want your shop to be a place
of contentment for these people. Unless these things are taken into
consideration, you are only considering our side of the problem and
not theirs. That has been the trouble with most of the Americaniza­
tion work throughout the country. W e have said, “ They must do
things exactly as we do.” But many of them have as good things to
offer us as we have to offer them. Unless we show them that they
can give equally with us, they are not going to be American. They
are not going to take a real interest in our Government. Many of
them are a little disillusioned. They have not gotten to know7 what
America is. Hundreds of them now are preparing to leave. A lot
of them have their transportation. Some of them are going to get
back their holdings of land; some of them are going to find their
relatives; some are going because they think if their country is freed
it is going to be a,paradise. They don’t know the circumstances
under which they will live. That is our responsibility. W e have got
to show them that this place is superior to that country, if we need
There is another element in the situation which you may not
know. How many of you have men working for you as laborers
who might be used in something much better if they understood our
language? One of the inspectors in a Cleveland company had taken



an interest in a certain laborer and found that this man could read
Horace in the original, and was perfectly marvelous in his enthusiasm
for the classics. I don’t mean to say that just because that man could
read the classics and was a university graduate there was necessarily
a place for him in that plant where he could use these advantages,
but it seems to me that his knowledge of his people and his interpre­
tation of and to the men of his nation in that company would be
very valuable. I don’t know anything of greater value to the men
than an interpretation of what the industry was accomplishing. How
many of you have possibilities like that ?
There is another question— the question of advice. The foreigner
has the same military and legal problems that you have, only inten­
sified. I f he gets into any legal difficulty he must usually depend
upon a stranger, often upon a shyster. He is left entirely to their
mercy, and develops a bitter feeling toward our country. There is
one of the biggest fields for the employment department— to give
these men accurate information on the draft and other war meas­
ures. Many of you have a company attorney who might do it.
Others might be sent to a legal-aid bureau. There is some sort of
place where each one can get a legal answer to his question. It is the
doing of something definite for them, some definite thing for them
outside of their factory life that wins these people. Rest assured
that any information given will spread around your shop.
You can’t expect these people with untrained minds— because most
of them or a great many of them are illiterate— all of a sudden to
acquire enough English to think in it, but you can teach them the
conversation of your shop, the names of tools, and the names of the
operations; you can teach them the conversation they will hear on
the streets; how to get to certain places around the town. The gen­
eral superintendent of one of our large industries in Cleveland said
the greatest trouble he had had was when he had a rush order from
one of the departments. They had to rush men into that department
from the others. The men did not know what to do when given in­
structions, because they did not understand English, and they were
blamed for their poor work. Those are things which come up very
often, but which can be done away with by the teaching of English.
The men who will work all day long and go home and get
dressed and find a night school do not have to be looked after. It
is the men who do not have that ambition at the end o f the day—*
and such men compose the vast majority of the people in your shop—*
who must be looked after. You must make it possible for them to
get a knowledge o f English. Organize a class in your factory and
have them go in as they are. A lot o f the men are diffident about
going to school and sitting in the same seats that their children sat
in during the day. . There are all sorts of psychological reasons for



their not going to night school. You can make it a possible thing
by having the school in the daytime. Most of the places in Cleveland
have it at the end of the day, anywhere from 3 to 6 o’clock, twice a
week. An hour is about as long as the men can be kept interested.
The question of incentive to make these people join the class is
one that must be considered to get them interested, in the first place.
There is one factory in Cleveland that makes it a condition of em­
ployment for the men who do not know English to learn enough to
get along in the shop. A few^ of the factories supply the facilities,
but the man stays over on his own time. There are a few plants
which pay for the whole hour. But the most successful way seems to
be a part-time arrangement; the factory pays for the first half hour
and the man stays the other half on his own time. You can argue
about the ethics of paying a man for learning English, but it is a
practical measure you will have to consider, at least the work we
have done indicates that you must provide some sort of an incentive
until the man is convinced of its value.
One of the things that is quite necessary is to have teachers who are
trained for this work. The ordinary teacher who teaches children
during the daytime will not do. She must have some sort of special
training. These people she is going to instruct are not children
and can not be reached with childish things; their minds are adult,
but their language is simple, and the teacher must be able to hold
their interest.
There are some things that can supplement the teaching of Eng­
lish, and one of them is a good library, a plant library not run by
a telephone operator, but taken care of by a person who under­
stands the situation, who is interested in the people and can give
them advice on books that will help them— books in their own
language. There is no other thing that will draw them closer than
to feel that you are sharing their hopes and aspirations. These
people have slaved for centuries, they have fought to maintain their
own nationality. They come over here because it is the one place
where they can do it. Eventually America will assimilate them, but
meanwhile the quickest way you can get to them is to have some ap­
preciation for their struggle. It is marvelous what can be done if you
speak their language. Their faces light up; there is a bond estab­
lished that you don’t get ordinarily.
Another thing that will help them is to get them interested in being
in places where English is naturally spoken. See if you can’t get
them to go to an art museum. A lot of them know more about art
than we do. They are perfectly able to enjoy the things they can find
in such a place, if they can be made to realize that it is public, and
that they can go to it. In this way they naturally are going to be­
come acquainted with the customs of Americans. You can’t expect



them to acquire the habit of speaking English merely by attending
a class in English twice a week if they never hear it spoken during the
Yesterday afternoon Mr. Cooke made the remark that labor’s
responsibility was production especially during the W ar, but that
production was falling off. I firmly believe that if these people could
be made to understand very definitely what this production means,
you would get their cooperation. It would do away with a great deal
of friction, a deal of misunderstanding that exists at the present time.
It seems to me it is up to us to consider whether that is not necessary
now, and whether we still want them to stay with us after the W ar.

The Chairman. A s employment managers and directors of labor
departments, I am sure we have all realized long since that what we
need and what we want, what we must be looking out for at all times,
is opportunity for contact with the workmen over whom we are
placed, and the excellent paper of Miss Bacon has, I am sure, given
us some ideas along that line. I might give a bit of our own expe­
rience in that direction, suggested by her statement. W e have found
that the liberty loan offers a splendid opportunity. W e stumbled
upon it. W e really did not realize it at the time. W e found our
people lukewarm about the first liberty loan. W e wanted to get sub­
scriptions from our factory, but the response was not good at all.
The people were indifferent. W e did not know exactly what the rea­
son was. W e knew that a great number of them were inclined toward
socialistic ideas, and at that time the socialists’ idea was very much
against war. But it was an interesting thing for us to study that,
because, after all, that idea was something which interfered with con­
trol. There was not the proper understanding between the company
and the people. The first thing we did was to try to discover some
plan to get in subscriptions that might be more appealing than the
ordinary plan offered. It is perhaps worth while to consider the
question a moment, because we will have more liberty loans, and we
have used our plan with success. It is an inexpensive scheme and we
have already felt it has more than repaid us for any expense we have
incurred. W e gave them not only a long term in which to pay for
the bond— 50 weeks at a dollar a week for a $50 bond— but also the
privilege of borrowing against their subscriptions to the extent they
had paid. Ours being a seasonal industry, that was necessary for a
good many of them. W e also offered them another advantage. That
was, if any of the subscribers died before the bond was paid, we would
turn over the bond fully paid to their representatives. It proved to
be exceedingly popular, and I think it was one of the things which
started the movement in the right direction. Then we hit upon this
little device: W e made addresses to small groups of our employees
upon the virtues of thrift and the advantage of saving and pointed
out the significance that a subscription to the loan would have. The
main thing was that every bit of the transaction, whether it was for
the postponed payment or cancellation of subscription or anything
of the sort, had to go through the employment manager. This gave
a contact with the people, and we found that from that time on the



interest was greater. In this last loan, in quite a number of shops,
among several hundred people who were formerly against the war,
there was a 100 per cent subscription. The contact which this plan
has given us with these people and the chance to explain the war
and what it means have been a great opportunity for us. And those
things help in this American movement.
The remarks that Miss Bacon made will be discussed very briefly
by Dr. Winthrop Talbpt.
Dr. W intiirop T albot, adviser in alien education, New York State
Bureau of Industries and Immigration. Representing, as I do, the
Bureau of Immigration of the State Industrial Commission, I wish to
express the appreciation that must be felt not only by those who have
to deal with the immigrant worker but by every citizen of New York
State, of what has happened here in Rochester in the graduation of
this class yesterday. Surely it means much to the citizens of this
State and of all the States that those who have to deal with the em­
ployment of immigrants coming into this and other States shall be
trained men. Allow me also to express my personal appreciation of
what Miss Bacon has been saying.
W e have in this country 60,000 manufacturing concerns, employ­
ing approximately 2 ,000,000 people of whom 1,600,000 are foreign
born. Eight hundred thousand can not speak English, and 400,000
can not speak or write in their own language. I could take you to
factories within 30 minutes’ walk from Broadway, which employ
1,000 people, of whom 800 can not speak English and 600 can not
read or write. I know a girl, 22 years old, born in a town on Long
Island, who has never been to school; she can not read or write in any
language; she does not know one word of English; and she has never
ridden on a trolley car. A typical case is an Italian man, for 18 years
employed in a factory carrying cans. I f you ask him how many cans
he is carrying he will tell you 4. He may be carrying 14 or 2 , but he
always says 4. He wants to assure you that he knows how to count.
He can speak no English. It is very difficult to get an idea over to
him in Italian. Such men can not read danger signs. They are them­
selves a source of danger to others. It has cost the city of Bayonne
many thousands of dollars, and has cost the refineries of Bayonne
nearly three-quarters of a million of dollars because they neglected
their illiterate aliens.
It is vitally important to get hold of a means of sharing thought;
this is fundamental to every one of the problems which you gentle­
men have to deal with. For the past 10 years it has been my business
to establish service departments in many large organizations, and I
know some of the difficulties you gentlemen are up against, because
I have been up against them myself.
77920°— 19-------7



One of the main difficulties, I think you will agree, is the difficulty
of getting an idea over to somebody else, whether it be your general
manager or whether it be an alien workman. You have a better
chance, perhaps, with the general manager than you have with the
alien workman, but I can assure you that it is no small job in either
I f you have not a common language, as is the case with alien
workmen, you are in a dangerous condition. Out of the 13,000,000
aliens, who have come to this country from 1900 to 1914, we have
over 3,000,000 who can not read or write; 75,000 in the State of
Connecticut; 500,000 in the State of New Y ork; between 350,000
and 450,000 in Pennsylvania. I f you will send to the Superintendent
of Documents a‘t Washington, D. C., for Bulletin No. 35, 1916, of the
Bureau of Education, you will find the data with regard to adult
illiteracy and the prevention of it.
The first thing to do is to devise ways and means of getting the
American language over to the illiterates. I f you will send for Bul­
letin 39 of the Bureau of Education, series of 1917, you will find
listed some 400 good text books for teaching the American language
to aliens.
Now comes the question of getting down to actual methods. You
will find that in the progressive establishments— and they are increas­
ing very rapidly— they are having the largest success in teaching the
English language to non-English sj>eaking people, on the factory’s
The evening school does not reach the adult. In New York City,
in 1914, there were some 10,000 adults registered in evening schools.
Less than 5 per cent were illiterate aliens. In other words, we were
reaching at that time only one-third of 1 per cent of all the illiterates
in New York through the evening schools.
There are practical methods of reaching the illiterate such as can
be carried out in A^our factories effectively. Non-English speaking
illiterates can be taught to understand, speak, read, and write 500
American words and phrases in 10 weeks by 1 hour’s instruction,
5 days a week, on factory time, at a cost not exceeding 20 cents
an hour per pupil. This is not a welfare proposition. It is plain
dollars and cents. In this State we are paying nearly $40,000 a day
for accidents which have occurred to illiterates. In New York State
377,000 persons applied for compensation for accidents in 1917. O f
these 70 per cent required the services of an interpreter. Is it the
illiteracy that causes accidents ? I can only say it seems reasonable to
suppose that if a man can not read a danger sign he is in more
danger than a person who can read a danger sign. It is a purely
economical proposition, in my judgment. W e can not look at it in
any other way. W e have worked this out for the last four years. W e



know what we are talking about. W e have worked out the methods,
and if you gentlemen are interested in the details I shall be de­
lighted to meet with anyone at the close of this meeting to give you
any details that lie in my power.
In closing I want to say that it seems to me, as an American and as
one deeply interested in that sharing of thought which is absolutely
fundamental to democracy, that we must have a common speech.
You can bring about unity in the Nation through teaching the Ameri­
can language to your workers. You can lend your assistance to unify
the Nation. Is it not your patriotic duty to take an interest in getting
hold of the means to do it?
The C h airm an . The proposal of Dr. Talbot to meet with anyone
who is particularly interested in the ideas which he has given raises
a suggestion which may be of some value. I have not consulted with
the officers of this convention, but I venture to say that they will
agree with me, and I presume that most of the speakers will agree
with me, when I say that those speakers who have presented some
concrete ideas which are of interest to any particular group here
might be glad to organize a little round-table discussion, of an in­
formal character, with the speaker who has first discussed the sub­
ject as chairman.
A s you all know, conventions are valuable to those who attend
quite as much, perhaps more, on account of the informal contacts
they get with those in the same occupation and having the same prob­
lems and interests, as on account of the formal meetings; and, inas­
much as this convention is so large and well attended, it has a disad­
vantage in that the discussion during the meeting must necessarily
be more formal. W e can compensate for that by having small groups
informally organized, and those who are interested in a particular
subject can apply to the speaker who has presented that subject, and
I am sure the speakers will all be very glad to organize these dis­
Mr. W ells. I want to announce the committee that was appointed
as the result of the motion last night; that is, the committee to study
and report upon some methods of computing turnover:
Chairman, Roy W. Kelly, o f H arvard University, Cambridge, Mass.
E. II. Fish, o f the Norton Co., Worcester, Mass.
Wilson C. Maston, o f the Eastman Kodak Co., Rochester, N. Y.
W. R. Kitson, o f the Solvay Process Co., Detroit, Mich.
Hugh Fullerton, of H. Black & Co., Cleveland, Ohio.
S. R. Rectanus, o f the American Rolling Mill Co., Middletown, Ohio.
Roy S. Hubbell, o f the Bowman Hotel Corporation, New York City.
Hon. Royal Meeker, United States Commissioner o f Labor Statistics.

The C h airm an . In order not to break the continuity of the sub­
ject too abruptly we will interject here another talk along the lines



of the last two papers. This talk will have a special reference to the
Negro in industry. I present Mr. Eugene Kinkle Jones, who is
national secretary of the National League on Urban Conditions
Among Negroes.
Capt. F isher . I feel it is a little unfair to Mr. Jones to drag him
from the train, after coming here on a sudden telegraphic call, to
address a convention he had not heard of, following speakers he has
not heard, and not knowing who are to follow him; and with your
permission I will make an address to the speaker, instead of to the
audience, for two minutes.
This, Mr. Jones, is a convention of the employment managers of
the country. They have to do with the management of labor in
factories. The national committee of Employment Managers’ Asso­
ciation, representing delegates from a number of local groups, have
called this convention, the second national conference on the prob­
lem of the employment manager in industry. W e have had discus­
sions so far upon destructive labor recruiting and similar topics.
The question now is man power for the war. You, as secretary of
the National League on Urban Conditions Among Negroes, know as
well as we do that we have robbed the farms of the South of Negro
labor and have introduced hundreds of thousands of southern
Negroes into our factory organization for work hitherto unfamiliar
to them. They are meeting conditions to which they were not ac­
customed, and are working under bosses not acquainted with their
psychology. So when the delegates of these local groups met to­
gether in Philadelphia some time ago it was decided that we should
have some one tell us something about the psychology of the southern
Negro worker whom we have put into our factories in the North.
Mr. Winans, of Cleveland, said that he had found that not precisely
the same methods which he had been using in dealing with hired
labor could be applied to the southern Negro not accustomed to
factory work. Some of his foremen wished to use force, and he was
reluctant to permit that; and yet he did not know how to get the
maximum production and steady attendance in the factory and the
proper spirit between the white and Negro workers without some
such method. And he said if we could get some one at that conven­
tion who could tell us how to resort to Negro labor without resorting
to driving methods it would be a great favor to all who have occasion
to hire Negro labor. I made several attempts to get such a speaker.
I attempted to get the supervisor of the Negro schools of Virginia,
and Mr. Scott, Negro adviser of the W ar Department; I attempted
to get Prof. Haines, the colored man who is advising the Labor De­
partment; and at the last moment Prof. Tyson, of Pittsburgh, tele­
graphed for you. I t is a great favor that you have done us in
coming at such a call to make an extemporaneous statement.

B Y E U G E N E K I N C Iv L E J O N E S , E X E C U T IV E




I consider this opportunity a privilege, inasmuch as the problem
of getting the greatest man power to become most efficient at this
particular time in the world’s emergency, and in our Nation’s emer­
gency, is one which is as close to the heart of the Negroes of America—
for they are good, full-blooded Americans just as you are— as it is to
you. Speaking of the migration of the Negro prompts me to say
a w7orcl about the point brought out by Capt. Fisher relative to the
farms in the South that have been robbed of Negro labor. You know
that some economists say that labor is a commodity, and the supply
and demand of labor is what determines its course. Now, Negro
psychology is the same as white psychology. Give them better school
facilities, so that their children can be better educated and trained,
and help all you can to reduce the lynchings and burning and tor­
turing of Negroes that has been allowed to go on without proper
judicial action for years, and you will find them respond as the white
race responds. Some of these things I speak of have crept into some
sections of the North or where southern influence has had its effect,
but mostly they are in the South.
In regard to holding these men after you get them. Let us assume
that }Tou have obtained competent, efficient men for unskilled labor.
How7 are you going to hold them? How are you going to make them
more efficient ? 1 read an article in a newspaper the other day— the
Evening Journal of New York— in which it was said that the com­
petition by employers of labor in the market for skilled labor can
be greatly reduced if opportunities for advancement in each plant
can be assured the men through the establishment of a school or train­
ing center in each large establishment, where unskilled men can be­
come skilled workers, rather than bidding for the skilled labor in an­
other plant, and thus raising wrages and increasing labor turnover for
each plant. In the past the only way that colored men were assured
advancement along their particular trade was to become efficient as
skilled workmen. They then centered their minds upon certain plants
scattered throughout the country where Negroes have been given
special opportunities for becoming skilled, and then they left the
plant where they had been employed and went where they could be
employed as skilled workmen. Every employer who anticipates em­
ploying Negroes ought to make it a part of his program to give these




Negroes tlie opportunity to become skilled workmen if they are com­
Let me explain some of the vices tliat Negroes are supposed to
be addicted to. One statement is made that the Negro works until
he makes enough to live for a while, and then quits until he is out
of money. He works three days and quits for the other four days
of the week. You know as well as I do that if }rou increase a man’s
wants liis standards of living will rise; and if you take married men
with families and see that they are provided with decent houses,
which you can arrange, or if the community gives them an oppor­
tunity for decent housing, you will find that they will need more
than they usually earn in three days to keep them. Select your men
through an expert who knows human beings— not Negro psychology;
because the psychology of the Negro is the same as the psychology of
other human beings. I f a Negro has had no opportunity for educa­
tion or training; if he is illiterate, if he has been kept down, his
psychology is the same as the psychology of some of the South Euro­
pean races. I f he has the same opportunity he will behave in ex­
actly the same way, unless we enlarge his opportunity. No psy­
chologist can tell you w7hat to do for him, because there is nothing
that can be done for him unless he is given an opportunity and train­
ing and instruction. Every job that has been assigned the Negro in
which he has been given an opportunity in this country has been
filled properly and efficiently by him. I f some of you were asked the
question whether you would trust yourself on a train operated by a
Negro engineer you would hesitate to reply. Yet it is more difficult
to drive a motor car than an engine, because an engine will stay on
the track if you give it half a chance. And yet Negroes are not
given a chance to become engineers but are employed very generally
as chauffeurs. I was in Detroit the other day, and I tell you the
first time I rode on a trolley car operated by a Negro motorman I
hesitated myself, simply because I never saw a Negro motorman on
a trolley car before. And when the conductor came to ask me for
my fare I did not know whether to give it to him or not. I was
afraid I would have to pay a second fare. I know that 75 years ago
the discussion was not whether or not the Negro could acquire a col­
lege education or not; it was whether he could acquire any knowledge
at all. And if you had asked some one in 1850 whether a Negro could
become a college graduate the reply would have been 44No.”
A lot of colored people in the South don’t believe Negroes have
any capacity at all, simply because this thought has been drilled into
them. I might tell a story that used to be told by Booker T. W ash­
ington. Four boys, English, German, French, and Negro were telling
what they were going to be. The English boy said, 441 am going to be
a statesman. My father was a brilliant man and I shall be a states­



man.” The German boy said, “ I am going to be a great soldier.”
The French, boy said, “ I am going to be a scientist.” When the
Negro boy was asked what he was going to be he said, “ I am going
to be nuthin’.” “ W hy is that? ” “ W ell, my father he is nuthin’.
He only works one or two days a week. And mother is always saying
to him, 4You ain’t never going to be nutliin’,’ and that is what I am
going to be.” So it is with the Negro in this country. I f you tell the
Negro he is going to be unskilled and incompetent, that there is no
opportunity to go higher, because he can’t be a skilled working man,
he is going to believe that himself.
W e often say the Negro is not dependable; that we can’t count
on him ; that he will not stick to his job, and will come late; that
he will leave early if he gets the chance, and will draw full pay.
How can we say a person is not dependable when we have not put
our trust in him? The Negro does not think he has the confidence
of the white people; they don’t believe in him. The Negro, on the
other hand, believes he is being robbed at every point. I am not say­
ing that this is the proper spirit for the Negro to have. The proper
spirit is the spirit taught by our Father in Heaven. But, unfor­
tunately, human beings in large numbers do not have that kind of
“ psychology,” and the Negroes feel as though they are being under­
paid, overworked, and that they are not being dealt with fairly.
The Negro has a very sunny disposition. He is happy at his
work; he sings at his work. Some of our white bosses do not like
people to sing while they are working. They say they get less
work done. I don’t believe it. I think Negroes are trying to get rid
of some of their jovial spirit in an innocent way.
I had an experience down at the Bush Terminal in Brooklyn,
where we had a colored labor adviser appointed to try to reduce
the labor turnover of the colored people working there. There
were some cars to be loaded. They allowed 15 minutes to load a
car, and they allowed four or five men for each car. The cars came
up, were loaded, and passed on to be made up into trains. Before
this man went there the foreman could discharge a colored man on
the spot. A ll he had to do was to say, “ You are discharged.” And
he had to leave. There were numerous such occasions, I assure you.
But when this colored man came to take charge of the work, one of
the first provisions was that no colored man should be discharged
until he, the adviser, was consulted. A few days after he had come
on the job a foreman came up to him and said, “ Six or seven of
your men are around the corner there, laughing and playing craps,
or something. I am going to discharge them, but I want you to
know it.” Collins, the labor adviser, saw the existing state of
affairs, and at first he said to himself, “ I had better say 4all right;
I give up. You had better discharge them.’ ” But he took second



thought. “ Men,” he said to them, “ why do you throw me down like
this? I am here to help you, and you are loafing and stealing away
the time that you are paid for. You ought to be working, not
fooling away this time.” The men started to laugh. He saw there
was something that he did not understand. “ Here comes the car,”
they said, “ we will show you.” They all grabbed their picks and
shovels and filled a car in half the time allowed for the job, and
then they started skylarking again for the seven or eight minutes
they had left. A t once Collins saw the situation. Those men had
not been given the proper supervision. The time was reduced one
half, or the number of men reduced one half, and from that time on
Collins had no more trouble in dealing with that kind of question.
To sum up in a few words, let me say this. First, in handling
Negro labor be sure that you select the proper type of men. Second,
be sure that the men are given an opportunity for advancement.
Let them feel they have a chance, and I am willing to trust the
future to Providence. In the third place, let your attitude toward
these men be as fair as that of the American Federation of Labor
and other unions that are entreating Negroes to join them. Fourth,
remember that Negroes are American citizens, who have contributed
their part to the success of every war we have fought since the
Revolutionary W ar, men who are contributing their all to-day and
will continue to do so, and that they deserve a man’s chance in a
country which is taking its part in the great conflict to establish
democracy throughout the world.
The C hairm an . I am sure we all realize the appropriateness of
Capt. Fisher’s introduction to the last speaker, and we have all en­
joyed Mr. Jones’s excellent statement of his case. W e must all of us
as employment managers be interested in any man or movement
which will help us to elevate standards, and help men to become ad­
justed to the environment, and the movement which Mr. Jones repre­
sents is distinctly and peculiarly one of that kind.
Capt. Fisher. I have just met with the delegates from the different
emploj^ment managers’ associations, who formed the national com­
mittee of Employment Managers’ Association. W e told you yester­
day that nothing was “ cooked up.” But something is now “ cook­
ing,” and you may sample the mess this afternoon at 3 o’clock. Last
year we decided against the formation of a National Employment
Managers’ Association with individual membership, because the time
did not seem ripe. The national committee will place before you
this afternoon at 3 o’clock the question as to whether the time is now
ripe. There were certain advantages in the continuance of a national
association as at present— not organized, with the local groups man­
aging the affairs. Then there are advantages in an individual mem­



bership organization, which gets the man in a small town who can't
belong to an association. I would not have 3 011 rush to conclusions
until you have heard the arguments on both sides as to what should
be done. But if the Employment Managers’ Association, or whatever
we like to call ourselves, wishes to get behind the National Govern­
ment, the Department of Labor and the W ar Department in the con­
duct of labor problems, we need to formulate something definite;
and we are not going to permit this large body of intelligent people
who have primary contact with the labor problem to disperse without
giving them some chance to express their point of view. Washington
and the people who have the programs for labor in charge will listen
to us if we put our point of view up to them properly. And if we
can sift the various points of view of you men here and get & sound
basis upon which our association may stand, we will get something
across to Washington that will count. Let u.^ try to get our meeting
this afternoon at 1.30 started promptly so that without cutting our
speakers short we will get through our speaking session at 3 o’clock
and then get to business.
The C h airm an . W e have with us to-day a representative of the
very successful and harmonious application of the idea of close con­
tact with employees, Mr. Hugh Fullerton, of H . Black & Co., of
Cleveland, who has been engaged in this work for five years and who
has approached the problem of employment management from that


W e may well begin any discussion of the subject assigned to me,
“ Standards for woman employees,” by asking the question, “ W hat
is the fuss about?” W hy are w^e worried? Aren't wTe talking of
equality? Aren’t we talking of equal suffrage? Aren't women in
increasing number entering industry on a plane equal with men?
W hy is there any talk of different standards for women ? W hy is it
necessary to have a different standard? Is it a return of the much
over-worked age of chivalry, or is it because industry is changing? I
am going to pat you and myself on the back for a moment. You and
I are bringing to industry a new social conscience. W e are beginning
to understand that industry has two fundamental jobs: The first is
to make the product, whether it be reapers, tires, or clothing, or au­
tomobiles, with the best labor possible, as cheaply as possible, and
give as good value for the merchandise as possible; but there is a
secondary function of industry and industry is getting the vision.
W e are incidentally making citizens. Women have a larger social
value to the community than men; and I can be perfectly frank with
this audience and say that a woman who is weakened by industry, a
woman who is a potential or perhaps a prospective mother, is a
larger social menace than a man so weakened. And so we are begin­
ning to see that we must throw around women in industry some un­
usual precaution, in order that the race and the community may be
benefited. It is industry's contribution to the welfare of the Nation.
I have attempted to divide the standards for women into four divi­
sions: Standards of employment, standards of work, standards of
health and sanitation, and standard of wages. It sounds like a long
list, but it will not take me long.
First, let me discuss standards of employment. I want to stand
sponsor for the statement, and I want to emphasize it, that the man
having a large number of women in his plant needs the assistance
of a woman interviewer. W e talked a little bit yesterday about
getting the right personality, and that is a big point. In the em­
ployment department the woman who interviews the women there
should be made to measure to this standard of personality: She
should be a woman who could easily get married, but somehow hasn’t.
She is the kind of woman who has the sympathy and the tact with a
group of women who come to her and so impress those women with



her sincerity of purpose as to get from them the kind of information
that is of value; and a man can not ask a woman questions that are
necessary for an employment manager and a production foreman to
know. Especially do these woman employees need some kind of a
medical investigation. W e must be particularly anxious not to put
women on jobs they can not do. W e put upon our nurse the respon­
sibility of seeing every woman who comes into our shop within the
week, to see if there is any reason why she should not fill the position
she is filling. That ought to be done certainly by a woman nurse.
Another point I want to emphasize is our opinion, and I am giving
the organization’s opinion, that no woman under 18 should enter
industry. I think that is the public opinion as well, because prac­
tically all of the State lawTs throw certain limitations around the
work of women under 18, and the public seems to express that senti­
ment through its laws. Until a woman passes through certain physi­
cal changes, entrance into industry is a dangerous experiment. One
thing, a technical matter of employment that counts a lot with a
woman, is introduction to the job. Do you men remember the first
job you ever had ? A t 15 I went into a tool shop as a tool boy. I was
employed by the timekeeper, who took me into the middle of the
shop; then went out and left me to be introduced to my job, and
the men looked me over as a curiosity— the new kid. I don’t know
whether I am particularly affected by the unfriendliness of people,
but we have found it valuable never to do that sort of thing, but to
take that girl from the employment office, introduce her to the
superintendent and foreman, and as you walk with her through the
shop explain to her some of the unusual things happening in any
shop, unusual noises, and just a bit of the type of work she is to do.
Introduce her to the girl next to her. Then appoint as a sort of
monitor some one in the section in which that girl is to work to take
her out to th€ lunch room, show her the wash room, and the coat and
hat rack; in short, to make that girl feel that she is a part of the or­
ganization from the minute she arrives. W e have felt that the suc­
cess or the failure and happiness which a person has in any job comes
very largely from the first hour’s experience.
I want to talk a little bit about the standards of work. Take the
important question whether women should be supervised by foremen
or forewomen. There are points for both. Our experience does not
indicate that foremen are more efficient in that work. I don’t sup­
pose there is an employment manager here who has not had the most
distressing experience of hearing some story about the relations
between a foreman and a girl in liis section. Sometimes those stories
are true; sometimes they are not. But it points out a tremendous
danger in permitting foremen to supervise women.



The advantage that the foreman can take, if he be so minded, is
great; and it seems to me that if it is possible to select from your
women the type of woman that can successfully manage women, it is
safety itself that a woman be put in charge of women. I f I were
putting a group of women into a shop where men had been employed,
I would not scatter the women throughout the shop among the men.
1 would decide in my own mind what operations of the shop and
what parts of the work women could do, and then I would segregate
and separate that operation, if possible, in a separate room, and I
w^ould put the women there all together without the men. It seems
to me that if you scatter women among men in a shop that you bring
on them the displeasure of the men, who immediately believe that
women are taking their places; and the women themselves are un­
comfortable. Put them in separate departments, and, if possible, in
separate workrooms.
Now, with regard to tlie question of hours for women. There are
no standard hour laws. State laws are in chaos. Perhaps 48 hours
is a sufficient work time. I am going to tell you of an experiment
that I thought I would not tell about, until it was sufficiently tried,
but I find my speech does not have enough point, so I am going to tell
you what we are going to do in our shop. You folks are talking about
the labor market, wondering where you are going to get additional
help. There is one field of search that we have not yet touched, and
that is the half-day woman, the woman who is either just married
or who has very few home duties, who does not care to take all day
to go to a shop and work, but can go to a mechanical job for a half
day. W e are putting half-time women on machine operation where
one woman takes up the work of another woman and follows it
through. The first shift is from 7 until 12.15. A t 12 o’clock another
shift comes on, and the new worker stands behind the chair of the
old worker to get familiar with the immediate job, and then sits
down at 12.15 and works until 5 o’clock. W e are going to get 10-liour
runs on our machines with 5-hour help.
W e must allow for the woman not being able to do extra heavy,
work. A woman should not be required to lift more than 25 pounds.
That is the thing you and I must watch in our shops. W e must
watch also that only women of particular types have standing
jobs. Whenever you find out what kind of work women can do, be
sure to find out whether it is a sitting job. I f it is a standing
job be sure that the women you* pick are carefully supervised by
your woman nurse, to see that the standing strain on a woman is not
more than she can bear. Certain jobs in our factory are standing jobs
filled by women, but they are supervised by our nurse to see that no
injury is done. I am talking a little bit about standards of health
and sanitation. O f course, we need separate toilet and wash rooms;



we don't need to talk about that. W e need the kind of health service
in a factory emplojdng women that will take care of minor ailments.
I want to have you carry away some figures in your head. Fifty-six
per cent, roughly one-half, of the folks in our factory are women. O f
the people we treat in our clinic 76 per cent are women, showing that
women need the care of a nurse more frequently than men. The
nurse in our factory is not merely binding up the wounded and
broken, because our industry has little hazard. She is in charge of
our health education department, and she talks to every woman as a
woman can talk to a woman. She is doing a tremendous work in
health education. Women seem to suffer fatigue from the monoto­
nous operations more acutely than do men. In the early spring we
started an established rest period in the morning. W e were not just
sure how it would take; so we began it hy degrees. Between 9 and
9.30^ our women may leave their machines and go to the lunchroom.
Lunch will be served; coffee, milk, and crackers. F ifty per cent of
the factory employees take advantage of the opportunity; of these
80 per cent are women. It is going to result in our establishing a
15-minute rest period in the morning and afternoon. W e find that
the girls who go to the lunch room come back to their job more effi­
cient for the remaining hours of the morning. The labor laws of
England now in force as a result of the conditions there, show
that women should not be exposed to excessive heat or cold; that the
temperature must be an average, and must be maintained, if women
are to be employed successfully without injury to their health. W e
must raise the question of exposure in our shops. I am not going to
expect much mercy when I talk about the style question; the women
are wearing shoes that are not fitted for work. Some of them are
made out of paper, and on a particularly rainy morning a girl will
come with shoes not in repair and her feet will be wet. W e have a
supply of dry shoes and stockings, and we are sure that in this way
many colds are prevented, and it is good business. Although we are
not doing this in a business spirit, it is good business to keep your
help on the job. The lunch room is necessary especially for women,
a place where they may sit in pleasant surroundings; and it should
be in the building.
W ith regard to the standard of wages I must consider that subject
briefty. The cry to-day is “ equal wages for equal work.” I am
not going to deny publicly that women are worth as much in industry
as men; I am going to question some things, and hand them out to
you to mull over. I f you establish a piece rate in your shop, make
it the same for women as for men. But consider a minute the value
of a woman on a straight week wage, taking the place of a man.
There are some drawbacks to the same week wages for women. First,
is the length of service. W e find that 48 per cent of the men in our



shop have been with us five years and over. W e find that 24 per cent
of the women, just half of the proportion among the men, have been
there five years and over. A woman, particularly a young woman,
takes the job as an interlude until she may be exposed to matrimony.
That is, the accumulated value that that woman has to the employer
is lessened because of the knowledge that the woman has necessarily
a shorter life at work than a man. The average life of women in in­
dustry is less than five years. Ta*ke the social significance of it. Aver­
age up your women and men, and you will find that the men have a
larger financial responsibility. Without arguing the point, the ma­
jority of the men are married and have financial responsibilities. O f
course, we have widows, but that is the unusual case. Men need a
larger financial return than do women in the majority of cases. I f a
man be inclined to employ women under 18 or women at all, he is nec­
essarily restricted by law to shorter hours. In case of a peak load in
any department it is easier to work tliat department overtime if men
are employed in the department than if women alone are employed,
and it does upset the arrangement of the factor}7, especially if over­
time is to be taken into consideration. As much as possible we must
struggle along without working overtime; but it is sometimes neces­
sary for certain departments to work overtime, and if that can't be
done by women, their value to the employer is somewhat lessened on
that account. A curious thing, we find— I am interested to know if
this experience is borne out elsewhere— that the absence record among
women is double that among men. It is hard to tabulate figures on
reasons for absence; but we find women stay home to keep house—
for no other cause apparently; they simply do not want to come to
work. W e do not find that so much among men. W e find that women
are less adaptable than men. There are only a limited number of jobs
we ought to put them on. Women get a sort of an affection for tlie
chair in which they sit, or the girl next to them; and when you trans­
fer them from one department to another, they w^eep. But to a man
all we have to say is, “ Bill, we are stuck. Can you help ns out ? ”
But you must argue the whole case with a woman and tell her she is
coming back tomorrow to sit next to Mary. I am telling these things
to suggest to } to u , not to deny that women are worth as much as men,
but to suggest to you that women may not be so valuable on a weekwage principle as men. As I mulled over this speech last night, I
said I must work up to some flight of oratory as I finish. A man
ought to do that in giving a speech. I want to say just this, as a
mere man, as a man who for two years was a common laborer in the
lumber mills of Colorado, and apprentice in a tool shop, janitor of
a public museum, that as to standards of workrooms and standards of
work what I have giveiv you applies, for the greater part, to men as
well as to women. You know we heard a lot yesterday about the


I ll

slacker, about the fellow that works one day, and then goes for an­
other j<*b; in Cleveland we call him the “ industrial tourist.” W e
heard a 1dt about that fellow, but let me say to you that industry is
responsible for the industrial slacker. I defy any of you successfully
to find, as a principle of anthropology, that man is a migratory ani­
mal by nature. W e have fostered that spirit and that sort of thing,
and you and I are going to judge the efficiency of our work by the
reduction of the “ industrial tourists.” W e are expecting something
from workmen we don’t give ourselves. How many of you men and
women from the organizations represented here give a month's
notice or a day’s notice to your employees when you fire them? Yet
we stand and kick because a man leaves without giving notice and
goes somewhere else, when we ourselves don’t give him any notice.
W e ought never to fire a man without three days’ notice, and we
ought to pay him the wages for the time of the notice. W e must
emphasize that when we employ him. A girl called me up not
long ago and said, “ I have been offered a job to which I want to go ;
but you have been so decent over there, and you emphasized the fact
that you would not fire me without three days’ notice. But I am
afraid that if I don’t get to my new work on Monday I will lose that
job.” She appreciated the good will of H . Black & Co. Quit your
foolish advertising. Don’t care whether you are alone in the city or
not. Quit it, because you are bidding against one another, and you are
taking men from the east end of the town to the west, because of your
adroitly worded advertisement. Put your emphasis on your employ­
ment standard. Don’t say to me or to anybody else that you have not
been able to convince your general manager that standards in your
shop are wise. That is your job, and when we say that it is difficult,
it is true, but that hard-headed president or general manager can see
the good business of keeping people and cutting down labor turnover.
I wish somebody would say again and again, “ Keep the help you
have got; you would have less turnover.” Establish certain stand­
ards of labor; standards that we are beginning to establish, standards
for women that Ave should have; and standards for men. Sell that
idea. That is your job and mine. Five years from now we will not
be talking about the “ industrial tourist.” W e will begin to talk
about human efficiency, in terms of incentive to good health, and in­
centive for clean living; and the “ industrial tourist ” and turnover
of labor will be greatly reduced.
The C h airm an . W e have been fortunate this morning in our pro­
gram. In fact, we have not time to finish it. Miss Obenauer, of the
Industrial Service Section of the Signal Corps, and Mr. Carpenter,
of the Recording and Computing Machine Co., of Dayton, Ohio, have
been obliged to decline the invitation to come here.
[Session adjourned at 12 noon.]

F R ID A Y , M A Y 10— A F T E R N O O N SESSION .
C H A IR M A N :






C .,




W A S H I N G T O N , D. C.

[The session was called to order at 1.30 p. m. by the chairman.]
The C hairm an . W e will come to order, please, gentlemen. Mr.
Kelly has not appeared upon the scene yet, so I think we better get
under way, and I will be glad to turn the meeting over to him on
his arrival. W e will start the afternoon program by listening to Mr.
Mark M. Jones, of the Thos. A . Edison Industries, on “ Classification
of personnel in the Arm y.”







OR A N G E ,







In the absence of Dr. Scott, the gentleman who was to have ap­
peared before you in this connection, I want to tell you something
about the largest single job in history in the selection and placing of
The advance of national standardization has been very much ac­
celerated by the W ar. W ar standardization has been heard of a
great deal. While as a Nation we have frowned upon great concen­
tration of capital and great concentration of power, it now seems
clear that as any one thing increases so the methods for controlling
it increase at the same time.
The relations between functions in industry must be very carefully
analyzed, standardized, and made available; that is, the concentrated
results must be made available in some form that is recorded
for the benefit of all individuals in the organization. There is a
great deal of knowledge in the world; that is, there are a few new
things. There is, however, a tremendous amount of information
that has not yet been reduced to paper, especially information with
regard to the selection of workers.
I started out by referring to the magnitude of the job of the Com­
mittee on Classification of Personnel in the Army. That committee



was a civilian organization appointed last summer by the Secretary
of W ar to consider the formulation and adoption of a plan for select­
ing officers for the Army. They developed a system the fundamentals
of which were devised by Prof. Walter Dill Scott, who w^as made the
director of the committee. The duties of the committee increased so
rapidly that it ultimately expanded into a tremendous organization.
Congress declared the policy of the Nation to be selective service;
in other words, every man should be given an opportunity to use his
own individual talents to the best advantage, not only in civil life
but in the Army. As soon as the selective-service act became effective
the problem of carrying into effect the policy of Congress faced the
Administration, and this committee was designated by The Adjutant
General to solve that problem for the Army. The committee consisted
of 11 members; I believe a number of the members were professors in
colleges and universities, and several were employment managers or
personnel executives in large institutions. The committee faced not
quite such a serious problem as w e have here because it did not have to
go out and “ dig up ” the men from whom to select; fortunately that
was not a consideration entering into the work. It was simply a mat­
ter of sifting those who came to the Army, sifting them by various
methods until they finally were put into the right place. Selection
after all is a matter of sifting, and you may use various instrumen­
talities for that purpose to assist you in fitting the right sort of a
scheme to your own organization.
Before the members of the committee could start sifting they had
to have an inventory of qualifications of the men who came to them;
they therefore used the idea of an application blank for mili­
tary purposes and developed a classification card for the Army. The
classification card provides space for the man’s name; his occupa­
tion; just what the man did— for instance, a man might say that he
was a machinist, but you would find upon further questioning that
he had simply operated some little machine on a production opera­
tion and that he was no more a machinist than he was an administra­
tive specialist; how good he was at his job, i. e., expert, journeyman,
or apprentice; the name of the firm; that of the department or
branch; the address of the firm; the man’s vocational assignment
with the A rm y; his military education; the record of trade tests;
whether or not the man is married; his race, age, height, and
weight; and a list of important occupations, those in which he has
had some experience being marked with a single check, those in
which he is an expert with a double check. The reverse side of the
shows the man’s education, language spoken, military experi­
ence, place of birth, citizenship, the local board from which he came,
his signature, and provides a space for records. A number is placed
77920°— 19-------8



opposite each occupation and across the top of the card. That num­
ber is also recorded. Tabs of different color are used to indicate
different degrees of expertness— a green tab originally meant an
expert and an orange tab a novice. A black tab covers the man
who speaks French and German or who has had previous military
experience, or has other important qualifications you would want to
know if you were selecting men. Thus, by the use of these devices
you can definitely link up the whole file with the qualifications of
the man represented by the card. In other words, you look down the
file and over 22 you find the tabs covering chauffeurs, and of course
it is apparent to any of you that that expedites picking out a man.
This may be an old story to some of you, but if your company is
after men, these facts apply to your business and these are your
problems, notwithstanding the difference in size between your com­
pany and the Army.
Since it soon became apparent that this was a war of specialists, it
became necessary not only to make this machinery effective but to
make it reach the highest possible degree of efficiency. When the
system was started it was used in connectiQn with the men who were
drawn under the selective-service act, later it was extended to cover
the National Guard and Regular Army, and now all the military
forces of the Nation are covered— not only the enlisted men but the
officers a]so.
A t the time the system was started I represented the committee at
Camp Upton, Long Island. W e conducted what I think was one
of the largest employment offices ever known; we had 372 people in
the employment office alone, and handled 3,000 men a day, assigning
them to the right branch of the Army and getting them on the pay
roll. Our problem was simply that of bringing the job and the man
together, and the handicap was determining the value of the man.
The man would state that he was an expert and you simply had to
take his word for it. O f course, the weekly earnings that he received
in his previous position gave you some index to his skill. There was
not sufficient time to take that matter up or get in touch with the pre­
vious employers; but it was apparent that something further must be
done, and we saw we had to have a national job analysis, so far as the
Army was concerned. W e then had to formulate the standard trade
specifications and occupational index of the Army. I find that it is
an idea that will probably be carried out still further by the Depart­
ment of Labor as it was referred to by their representative in his
The trade specifications are simply military specifications. They
represent the ideas of those men in the Army who are responsible for
results, as to just what qualifications their men should have. It is
nothing more or less than a job analysis that covers a wide expanse



of territory; it sets up a common language throughout the A rm y ; it
puts the same name on the same job everywhere in the Arm y, and
presents an opportunity for requisitioning men on a catalogue basis.
The specifications have been drawn up to carry out that idea. W e
have a book arranged so that the occupation is stated on the side and
the symbol number appears over it, and the code number to the right.
Each paragraph also has a number. The book shows the duties,
qualifications, and substitute occupations, and is just as brief a de­
scription as is possible of the military needs in that connection. I do
not think it is ideal or that the descriptions are all that they will
ultimately be, but I think it represents an important step forward.
This work has, I believe, been taken up by the Department of Labor
and wTill be extended on an industrial basis. W hat the Army has
done is not new; it has just been done in a different way and for a
different purpose from anything done before.
Some one asks, “ Can a copy of that book be obtained ? ” I do not
think so, but the idea will be useful to you. So far as individual
concerns are concerned, I think the value of this would rest in the
outline of a method which they may work out in a similar way in
their business. Not everything in it would interest the average em­
ployment man. A great many of you have a job analysis, and if you
do not have it, you ought to.
As soon as you have the job analysis you have the first working
tool of the interviews; if you know what job you have to fill, then you
can start out and find the man to fill it. The size of the requisition has
some bearing. You are fortunate in not being in the position of the
Army, because officers receive requisitions from 1 to 10,000 men.
That requires pretty fine sifting, and you then appreciate the great
value of a tab system.
When you come to fitting the man to the job you run into a rather
unknown quantity, because we have been depending upon the general
experience of men who as interviewers concentrated their previous
mechanical experience at that point in the interest of the organiza­
tion. You usually only cover four general needs: ( 1 ) The personal
desire of the man, (2) his personality, (3) his trade knowledge, and
(4) his skill. O f course, the importance of each will depend en­
tirely upon the job; they will have to be balanced to get the result
you are seeking. To work that out on a uniform basis it is necessary
to have a measuring instrument of some kind. The judgment of the
interviewer has been the measuring instrument. In the Army it was
found that experienced interviewers were not available, so it was
found necessary to devise a system that could be used by men of ordi­
nary training. Naturally, you will not go in your own plant as far
as the Army has had to go, but some of these measuring instruments
may be applied in a particularly useful way during these times when



experienced interviewers are not available. You can put a tool of
this sort in the hands of a man of higher intelligence and, of course,
get much better results than if you left him without any other tool
than his own judgment.
For military purposes a small handbook entitled “ Aids to Inter­
viewers ” was developed. It contains a set of questions covering 120
occupations of first importance to the Army. The questions are de­
signed to show in which of three general groups— apprentice,
journeyman, and journeyman expert— a man should be placed. The
questions are not yet perfect. They represent, however, a distinct
advance over the methods used by interviewers prior to this time,
and I think the presentation of the Army experience in this con­
nection will be helpful to you. The questions will be useful at the
start particularly. When you put a new interviewer on the job he
will have a reinforcement that will do much to improve the results,
and after awhile he will not need to refer to the questions, because
he will hire men only for a limited number of jobs. They are most
useful, because you have to put new men on and you may have to
have a substitute do the interviewing in the absence of the man in
The important consideration in formulating material of this sort
is the manner of stating the question. It seems, for instance, that
a man should not be asked the question, “ Can you operate both a
hancl-screw machine and an automatic-screw machine ? ” Is it not
far better to state the question thus: “ W hat kind of machines have
you operated ? ” In other words, do not state a question that gives
the candidate the answer. Personality depends upon the position
and is something we might not attempt to measure from a trade
standpoint. W e have proceeded further 011 the question of checking
trade knowledge and at the present time are working on a system
of combining oral questions and photographs as a step further than
this. The idea is to have photographs of all the tools of the trade
and on a separate sheet a number for each tool and a statement of
what the tool is and how it is used. Foremen who have used this
method claim to be able to check about 90 per cent as to the candi­
date’s ability when he appears for examination. The photograph
method should, of course, be used in connection with the oral ques­
tions and the two will work in together excellently.
I f I were in the average industry and thought something like this
would be helpful I would get trade catalogues of a number of con­
cerns, cut out pictures of tools and machines, mount them on cards,
and place them in the hands of the men in the employment office.
They would thus have something that will often serve them in a
most useful way.



The problem of the interviewer is to measure the applicant’s fitness
for the job, and the more nearly the tests in the employment office
can be made to conform to requirements of the job the more success­
ful the examination will be. I show you a photograph of the tools
of the sheet-metal wrorker. Here are the tools of a blacksmith. Here
are the tools of a wire-rope splicer or lineman. Here we have the
lathe, the various tools around it, numbered for identification by
the man who says he is a machinist. W e have an automatic-screw
machine with cutting tools fitting it. You can vary that and put
a number of machines in one photograph. You may go a step
further and have in your employment office a photograph of a man
working on a machine, and if your job is located a great distance
from the office you might find it helpful to take the job to the office
instead of taking the applicant to the job; it will save time and you
can get excellent results. Photographs can be supplemented still
further by blue prints. You can have a wiring diagram in your
employment office, or you can have a pipe layout; and you can carry
the idea just as far as the needs of the situation may demand.
When an interviewer gets through with the question of trade
knowledge the sole remaining question is that of skill; that is, as to
how expert the man is who knows all these things about a job, and
whether he has been primed by some one and is there simply answer­
ing, parrot like, questions that he has already been informed on.
The only way finally to check that is by measuring his skill, and, of
course, in the average industry that is determined by the performance
test the man is given on the first day or first w7eek or first month. In
the Army we go just as far as possible definitely to determine the
ability of a man so that he may not be sent out to do something he can
not do. It is more important in the Army than in an industry to have
this knowledge. The ultimate scheme for measuring skill in the
Army seems to be to have, at various points where large military
forces are concentrated, testing laboratories, equipped with the ma­
chinery and tools with which to give the tests that will determine the
man’s skill. Just how far one should go naturally depends upon the
predominating occupations in the territory from which that point
draws its men.
How these tests can be adapted to the average industry is a ques­
tion. Some of you have tools in your offices now, and the man has
to demonstrate what that tool is and how to use it. It is very seldom
we go further than that, but it is possible to carry it further any
time when you are warranted in sifting fine. In these days it is a
pretty hard job to find the men to sift at all.
r The line of development of “ Aids to Interviewers ” will depend
upon the class of positions to be filled. This work for the Army



simply indicates that the problem in setting up machinery for selec­
tion is to make available to the interviewer the information you
already have. As I see it, the idea of “Aids to Interviewers ” can be
developed on a pretty broad basis. These “ aids ” will help in setting
the standards for trade education in occupations that have been
I f you can use any of these ideas, I place them before you for
whatever they are worth.
The C hairm an . W e will be glad to hear from Mr. Miles of the
Council of National Defense.


H . E . M IL E S , C H A I R M A N ,







E M E R G E N C Y , C O U N C IL OF N A T I O N A L D E F E N S E , W A S H I N G T O N , D. C .1

I am asked to speak on “Women in industry.”
This is a very interesting subject at this time, but a year hence it
will be almost commonplace.
M y real interest is in intensified war production, in saving the
lives of allies at the front, and advancing the day of victory by the
more perfect use of our factories.
This larger view and the study of foreign experience justifies the
statement that fundamentally production in the machine trades is
not a matter of sex, but only of skill and numbers. That we have
thought in terms of sex betrays our passing ignorance.
This does not mean that we are to hurry women into our factories.
On the contrary, the cares of civilization have been divided between
the sexes. Men, by common judgment, have been the fighters and
the economic producers, and will continue so. But we must regard
womankind with a new appreciation, with a thorough-going reali­
zation that women are able to do almost anything that men are now
doing in our factories except where brute strength is required.
Says Mr. Kellaway, Secretary to the British Ministry of Muni­
tions :
No limit exists to-day to tlie capacity o f women in the engineering [i. e.,
mechanical] and chemical industries, and the adaptability o f the m anufac­
turers seems to be equally great.

Says Mr. Ben H . Morgan, specialist in industrial training, of the
British Ministry of Munitions:
By the process o f dilution, we have been able to place in munition works
$bout 950,000 women to do work from the heaviest laboring unskilled operation
to the highest grade o f toolroom non repetition work. * * * After a few
months’ workshop experience, women are to-day building the greater part o f
one o f the best high-speed engines in the country, each woman setting her own
tools and work, and able to machine any piece o f work that the tool she is on
w ill take. * * * Turning and finishing test piece in various metals to a
five thousandth; making tools and gauges of all kinds to fine lim its; all
varieties o f bench fitting to drawings and marking-off work of every descrip­
tion. * * * Women are doing magnificent work both as regards accuracy
and output.
1 Since this address was mad« the Government lias established at Washington, D. C.,
the Training and Dilution Service, with Mr. Chas. T. Clayton as director and Mr. Miles
as chief of training.




W hy are women doing these things in England, France, and Italy ?
Not because naturally desirous, but because—
Had tlie women o f Britain been unable or unwilling to step into the vacant
places, the war, first lost in the workshop, would have been finally lost in the
In her hour o f greatest need, Britain has called to her daughters. She has
not called in vain. By their industry, their efforts, and their heroic sacrifices
the women o f Britain [and France and Italy] have saved their country and
have saved the world.

There is ample assurance that these women will withdraw from
the factories as happily as the soldiers will withdraw from the
trenches with the coming victory. Many women will be almost as
unwilling to continue their factory work— many of them are deli­
cately reared— as the men to continue in their present occupation of
Meantime, the factories of England and France are operated
mostly by men past the draft age, by the physically unfit, and, in
very great measure, by women. O f these three classes, if any excel
in accomplishment, it is the women, not in the least because they are
women, but because they are young, strong, open-minded, and desper­
ately in earnest.
The wonder is that production is not less but far greater per
operative than in peace times.
Sex has no more to do with mechanics than eating has.
This being so, are not those employment managers who do not
know this and do not have this in mind in case of necessity, a
possible hurt to their companies and to the cause of victory, because
they are unprepared, upon occasion, to use exhaustless forces imme­
diately at hand ?
Such manifest qualifications of these general statements as that
of the greater muscular strength of men and the finer touch and
sensitiveness of women’s hands, etc., I leave you to make.
Let no one assume from the facts stated, however, that women
may properly be rushed into our factories.
Our situation as yet only remotely compares with England’s*
England had to use women.
W e must prove the need as we go along; and no man not now in
essential war work may shirk a factory job on the ground that
u some woman can do it.”
Women are to supplement men, not to supplant them.
The section on Industrial Training, of which the speaker is chair­
man, is composed of equal numbers of representatives of organized
labor, of leading employers, and of experts in industrial training.
It is the judgment of each of these groups and the pronouncement
of the section that our first duty is to train every unemployed wage



earner for an essential trade and preferably for a job of correspond­
ing value to the one he leaves, and to give preference to the men now
in the factories before bringing in either men or women from out­
side industry.
Also, the representatives of labor and employers must go hand
in hand in this work. Said a great member of an English labor com­
mission, “ You can not go faster than labor can see the way.”
W e are all fighting as brothers in this war. Every employer owes
it to the cause and to himself, not only to deal fairly with labor and
not to use the present situation for temporary advantage, but to
make his position so clear in this respect that none can misunder­
stand him.
Few realize the strain that is coming upon industry in the next
few' months. W e should seriously consider an army of 5,000,000 men
as probable by 1910. After debate, Congress struck even that number
out as a limit.
After the additional millions have joined the colors, we must pro­
duce not less but very much more in our factories than now.
Authorities who should know say there is a shortage now of 250,000 common laborers and as much more of skilled laborers.
It is estimated that from 600,000 to 800,000 must be brought into
our factories by January 1, and taught to perform skilled opera­
tions. This is an estimate only, but it is by authorities who can
judge as well as any.
You, as employment managers, have the task of getting them.
You can not continue to gamble on faces at the employment gate;
you can not continue to advertise promiscuously; to “ scout;” to
spend from $20 to $50, as some of you do, for each new person of
whatever ability, whom you get upon your pay rolls.
The old order has passed away. W e must develop now methods
as scientific and intensive as we have ever developed in other fields
of production, and by these new methods we must make the skill that
will make the product. W e must a£t upon the proven experience of
nations that have been longer in the war and accept that experience
at full value, with only such modifications as may become necessary.
The foreign experience is a written book, England and France
first “ mussed along ” as we have done. Then they resorted to their
trade schools and found, as we will, that those schools had to be re­
equipped and the school instructors replaced almost entirely by
factory foremen and factory mechanics with production experience
and minds free from the burden of “ related instruction,” and all
else not necessary to instant accomplishment.
England is using 60 trade schools to decided advantage in this
way, but they give her only 1,700 new workers per month, and most
of those for the simpler operations.



She has also five instructional factories that accommodate 800 per­
sons in courses of about six weeks.
W e already have in the United States a few schools doing war
work of the highest order and examples of what -dozens of schools
should be that are now as dead to industrial service as if they were
in China.
Instances of these splendid schools are the Worcester Trade School,
which will cooperate with a group of Worcester factories through the
Summer; Pratt Institute, of Brooklyn, which is training for high
factory service two or more shifts daily of men from the nonessential
trades and others; the State Trade School, of Bridgeport, wThich
is training men to be high-grade machinists on special operations;
the Boardman Apprentice School, of New Haven, and the Cass
Technical School, of Detroit. The director of the k-st-named school,
Mr. Allen, says:
W e have taken high-grade machinists in Detroit who have been in the shops
for a couple o f years and were fam iliar with the use o f drawings, decimal
equivalents, etc., and made tool-room machine operators doing work o f con­
siderable variety, each on a single type machine, almost immediately. In
three or four months, by continuing to watch and instruct such a man, he has
been able to run almost any machine and do on it almost any work laid out
by the toolmaker.

Great as is the service of the schools in England, and great as it
will sometime be in the United States, it is necessarily slight as com­
pared with the total need.
Remember that there were only 488,000 mechanics in the United
States in 1910 according to the census of that year, and that many of
these must be in France for maintenance and repair work; then re­
member that 600,000 more than we now have must be brought into
the factories by about January 1 and made skilled.
It was such a situation as this that caused the employers of France
and England to see a new obligation resting upon themselves, collat­
eral with the contract obligation to deliver the product contracted
for. The necessary skilled help was not in existence. The schools
were inadequate. Each factory had to train the skilled operatives to
make the product.
Training rooms were established in many factories and the success
exceeded expectations.
Soon the British Government made the establishment of these
training rooms a part of the contract obligation.
The French Ministry of Munitions appointed a commission to
investigate and recommend, and upon the findings of this commis­
sion required every factory in France employing 300 workers or
more to establish a training room, preferably near the tool room,
for its employees.



It w&s no excuse for a factory to say that it had plenty of skilled
help. In that case, much of its help would be taken away to other
factories that were in need. Smaller factories were excused from
training, as they should be in this country, only in case they ar­
ranged with a public school for the training of their help.
So many great factories in America are now putting in these
training rooms as to make it no longer experimental. It is already
a moral obligation upon every employer and we need not be surprised
if it is soon required here as abroad.
One hundred and fifty factories in this country will spend many
millions in training their workers. These are only some of the first
to begin. One is spending at the rate of $457,000 annually. Another
includes in its annual budget $750,000 for training departments in
two of its plants. Several will equal these*. Others will meet their
requirements most moderately.
This outlay seems large but it is virtually no expense at all, because
the training rooms are production departments, as later explained.
Contrast this expense incurred for a good return in production
and the stoppage of labor turnover with that cf a factory which has
spent $750,000 in the last six months in getting 15,000 new workers
on its books, two-thirds of whom have since quit, leaving many ma­
chines still idle and not a few broken, and with no adequate repair
force to put them in order.
The instructors in these training rooms are simply skilled men
taken from the operating force— not foremen, who can ill be spared.
Often an operator can teach better than a foreman. The instructor
must have the teacher’s instinct, he must be able to tell what he knows
and be patient and sympathetic. He must be of excellent character
and able to deal with women when they are to be trained.
It has been surprisingly easy to find and develop instructors in
our plants. W e have, found, working at machines, men from techni­
cal secondary schools and colleges and men who have been teachers.
Any man selected should be watched carefully until proven fit. Pie
should immediately visit successful training rooms and begin by
using their experience.
A training room may well be called a “ human tool room ” where
the human instruments of production are made especially fit and
happy at their tasks.
Among the principal functions of a training room are these:
The “ upgrading ” of present workers. It is an industrial and
social blunder to go outside habitually for new workers for superior
places. In some of our factories the whole spirit has been strength­
ened, the output increased, and the wastage diminished by a policy
of promoting wherever possible and using the training room as a
means of advancement from any place to the next higher.



W e need high-grade mechanics.
machinists’ union in a great city:

Says an able president of a

I used to fasten engine cylinders to the floor and rig up apparatus overhead
with which I rebored the cylinders, measuring them with ordinary calipers,
and I did a good job. Men of this sort can be trained for high-grade tool­
room work in short order.

So, men are being upgraded through training rooms by intensive,
scientific instruction in production on the job they are to fill. The
results are in happy contrast to the old way of simply pushing a
man from one machine to another.
To illustrate: A man hired as an all-round toolmaker was set
to boring a 75-mm. cannon. He called to the job boss, “ Come and
give me some pointers.” Said the boss, “ Weren’t you hired as an
all-round toolmaker?” “’ Yes.” “ Then, d-------you, bore that or get
out.” He got out, and later explained that he is an all-round tool­
maker, but had never seen a modern cannon and did not propose to
spoil the first one. He could have been trained in a single day or
less, without cost to continued high production. As it was, the compan}^ lost a good and conscientious worker, and also $50 spent in
securing him.
Five years ago one of our expert directors of training visiting
the Krupp works in Essen was told that that company let no new
man go directty into the shop. It tried him out in the training
room and then placed him just right.
Men from nonessential industries, the new “ work or fight”
men, and others are being trained with such dispatch and success as
surprises the factories that have these “ vestibule ” schools. I have
given you some instances. They can be multiplied indefinitely. A
butcher was quickly trained to be a good bench hand and is now an
instructor at the age of 55. A masseur from a Turkish bath quickly
mastered a No. 3 Cincinnati horizontal milling machine. A carpen­
ter, aged 61, took a longer time, but acquired very general ability.
A laundry shirt ironer after three days operated a screw machine
and produced 25 per cent more than had been estimated by the
makers of the machine. A t the end of a week, he took the machine
to pieces to get acquainted with its entire mechanism. A plumber
quickly became a milling-machine operator. Also, a wagon driver
at the end of a week could read the blueprints of his work, and oper­
ate a milling machine.
7V o m e n . — As regards women, the training room is almost a nec­
W e are treating women like children. W e are giving them tasks
that boys could do, and “ fool-proof” jobs. But their intelligence
is naturally as good as men’s and we must not forget that an un­
usually high class of women are offering their services, women corre­



sponding to the venturesome, courageous, far-seeing men who first
Mr. J. J. Pierson, dilution officer of the British Ministry of Muni­
tions, Lonclon district, says:
You can train a woman for the tool room in three weeks. I f you can’t do
it in three weeks, you can’t do it at all. You have simply gotten the wrong
woman. Pick out a long-fingered, sensitive, intelligent woman, who is doing
especially well on a simpler task and upgrade her in this way.

Do not misunderstand him. He is a great production man and
knows from extensive experience. He also knows that it takes many
years to make an all-round toolmaker. In England, however, it is
not permitted to use such a toolmaker except on work that only he
can do. A ll the simpler processes in the tool room are segregated
and given to newly trained operators, each operator is quickly taught
to operate a single machine with precision and accurac}^. Thus
quantity of production is secured equal to that of the all-round man
because the latter is relieved of simple work that would take him as
long a time as the new trainee.
Some shops are disorganized with poor spirit and confusion. In
some there is opposition and prejudice regarding women. Many
women wTill not go directly into factories. Many tell us that they
came because there was special provision for training. When tho
time comes for women, begin with the ages 20 to 35, and preferably
with women having relatives at the front or recommended by your
best men. Insist upon a war spirit; require production from the
first, averaging up with the factor}^ with 100 per cent accuracy, no
wastage. Women, by the way, refuse to waste anything. Boys are
. careless. Keep these three daily checks on the training room:
(a )
Number of trainees passed into the shop daily. I f this were
the only check, they would be sent in too rapidly and not sufficiently
Cost of training per operative. I f this were the only check,
good workers would be kept too long in the training room.
( c ) One hundred per cent Government inspection. No wastage.
Follow up the trainees in the factory for two or three weeks to
make sure that each feels at home and is doing as well as expected.
O bjection s to the training room .— Some employers say their
factories are so crowded they have no space for a training room.
This is impossible. The machines take the same space in the training
room that they would take in the factory. Some say they can not
spare the machines from production, but they produce as much in
training room as they average in the factory and soon greatly
increase production throughout the factory except in rare instances
where factories are still perfectly organized with the best prewar
rate of production and accuracy. In one factory, eight weeks after



the training room was started, 10,000 old operatives speeded up
materially. Where the factory morale is low, the training room
seems almost necessary for the development of a war spirit.
It was probably with the latter condition in mind that Mr. Pierson
said that an increase of 25 per cent in production could be depended
upon. W e know of much greater increases, and we know of no
increases in a few cases under exceptionally successful managements.
C ost. — One factory is spending at the rate of $30,000 annually in
its training room, but this is only $3 per trainee. A s its entire force
of 10,000 workers speeded up in consequence and as each trainee
is above the average shop worker in production, and as the new
workers must be trained somehow, in any event, I leave you to figure
the cost.
In one factory about 3,000 persons are employed monthly, and half
that number quit. In this factory less than 4 per cent of all who have
entered through its four months old training room have since quit.
Figure the cost.
In another factory I would estimate the gross daily cost of train­
ing at from $50 to $100, and the reduction in wastage at nearer $5,000.
Consider your own expense as employment managers, your inability
to man your shops adequately, the old “ hire-and-fire ” estimate of $50
to $150 cost per man for “ breaking him in,” and against these ex­
penses put from $3 to $10 as a probable cost, net, per trainee.
W a g e s .— Pay good wages in the training room. It makes little
difference to you how much, for the period is short. O f course, you
will pay women according to their production and service, the same
as men. That is now everywhere agreed.
W elfa re w ork .— This is now understood. Women especially must,
be amply provided for. Woman is the more delicate instrument and,
like the Kentucky thoroughbred, if I may make the comparison, she
needs grooming; and good care pays.
T he sex problem ,.— There is none if you are wise. From the first
instant provide against it. Let “ Mind your business ” be the order
to every operative. I like best a Philadelphia factory where many
women of a splendid type are under the supervision of one chosen
from themselves as assistant to the superintendent. This assistant
knows what it is to work at a machine all day; she knows factory life.
She is high minded, quiet, and well balanced. Under her direction
no woman recognizes any man except the one in charge. The men
like this. There are no implications and no complications, no glances,
no smirking. Not even does a passing clerk or friend stop to gossip.
H alf our troubles in this matter come from suspicion and curiosity.
K ill these, set the highest standard, and the shop tone is better for:
the presence of women. Trifle or neglect and you will get your due.



N ot a panacea.— The training room is not a miracle worker, neither
is it needed for instruction on the simplest processes. A s heretofore,
the ordinary drill press, the turning of a shell, and many fool-proof
operations of great accuracy can be taught on the machine in a prop­
erly organized factory. Every factory, however, needs operatives
for the finer processes, and the higher the process the more the need.
For all but the simpler processes the training room is necessary in
this crisis. Those who have these training rooms already see that,
like their tool rooms, they have come to stay.
I have shown you, as I have talked, many pictures in substantia­
tion of my statements. You have seen women rather quickly taught
to do things that in peace times we thought that only a few men could
do. You have seen how and why England is winning the W ar in her
factories. W ill you win it in ours?
You have seen men from the nonessential trades performing the
highest sort of service in war production. W ill you help them per­
form such service in your own communities?
Training must be made a community matter as it is in Worcester>
Buffalo, and Detroit, and is coming to be elsewhere. Factories must
do different^ in different communities, and each must plan with tho
others in the common interest.
Above everything labor men must be consulted, for they are making
great concessions here as in England, and they must know, as trustees
of a great interest, what is proposed and what is done.
I am asked to answer the following questions:
What adjustments are made necessary by the introduction of
women into employment?
Answer, (a ) A woman assistant to the superintendent or “ shop
mother,” with no power to give orders, but with full power to con­
sult, hear troubles, and advise, and mighty keen to detect and prevent
sex influence.
(b ) Bloomerette costumes (khaki) and low-heeled shoes; rest
rooms; doctor or nurse, etc. The doctor will be called upon less than
you expect if the welfare conditions are right, for a great many
women thrive on factory work of the right sort.
(c ) Good, hot, midday lunch at cost; 10 minutes’ rest mid morn­
ing and mid afternoon, and either an eight-hour day, or nine hours’
maximum, with Saturday afternoon off. W e are speaking now not
of the basic day, but of the actual limitations in hours of physical
exertion under any conditions.
(d ) Seats with backs to use occasionally or usually.
(e) Ages, preferably 20 to 35, serious minded, recommended by
the best men employees, preferably “ with relatives at the front *’— Or
war spirit.



2 . W hat steps should an employment manager take in getting the
employer to use women in his plant?
Answer, (a ) Before taking any steps, make certain that male
w age earners can not reasonably be secured and that this is evident
to the working people and others. Then get the literature of the
Section on Industrial Training for the employer, including weekly
bulletins on new developments.
( b ) Pry the employer’s mind loose from tradition and inertia—
some job. Turn him from the inclination to cry for assistance and
to the determination to help himself as far as he can— to try, even if
not cocksure.
( c ) Get him, or a constructive, determined, production man from
the factory, to visit two or three of the present best training rooms,
particularly one in a shop very like his own.
(cl) Make a joint and community matter of all this. Some shops
should not use women at all, because the work is unusually dirty, or
excessively heavy, etc.; others in the community can, and must in
some cities, as the situation becomes acute, both for their own produc­
tion and as a relief to those who can not.
3. To what extent do the principles involved in training women
apply to the training of unskilled men to do skilled work?
Answer: Forget sex. Training is training, for man or woman—
brains and hands in either case, and woman’s hands commonly the
more subtle.
4. W on’t industry be flooded after the war by the great numbers
trained for temporary war production?
Answer: From a deep religious sense or otherwise I dislike con­
sidering conditions after the war. I am absolutely confident that the
man or nation who submits to the highest known obligation will be
protected somehow in his lesser interests. There is but one supreme
obligation now— racial salvation through the winning of the war.
Those who are able to win the war will be able at its conclusion to
settle other matters.
I would train women, so far as it is fair, on war specialties, like
time fuses, light shells, rifles, and other things never to be made
again, at least in our generation.
To that extent, these new workers would then be taught only to
make war materials, and the only utterly nonessential occupation in
tlie world a short time hence will be the making of munitions.
The English labor unions prefer that women rather than boys
shall be brought into the factories, because boys will stay and women
not. The wage-earning period of a working woman’s life averages
Furthermore, there will be millions less of able-bodied men at the
end of the W ar than at its beginning. There will be an untold



amount of reconstruction in the devastated countries and of re­
plenishment everywhere else, for all the people in all the warring
countries are doing without many things, are wearing out old uten­
sils, clothes, etc. I f, therefore, some of the newly taught people stay
in the factories we need not expect an oversupply of workers. W e
have only to continue in the present spirit to get better wages, better
working conditions, and a general betterment applied in all present
endeavors in the field of industry.
This is certain: For the first time woman is put where she belongs,
in terms of her indivdual aptitude, not limited by the mere conven­
tions and traditions of sex. Nothing can be better for the race, and
we need not trouble now over details of adjustment.
In conclusion and to repeat, don’t train women or men from out­
side industry if there are wage-earning men idle who can be trained
to do the work. One heretofore idle should never be allowed to
crowd out a deserving worker, possibly one on whose income others
than himself depend.
77920°— 19------ 9


Yesterday Mr. Stearns, of the Westingliouse Electric & Manufac­
turing Co., of East Pittsburgh, spoke extensively on job analysis with
respect especially to machinery and lathes. H e told us what the
Pittsburgh company had done in the matter of organizing their shop
help into classes A , B , C .3 etc. The company I am with in Chicago
felt? the need, more particularly, of classifying its various occupa­
tions. W e felt that our work was more or less specialized, though
we have a large number of trades and occupations that are in some
ways very common. In the organization we have approximately
5,000 employees. Several years ago we started out to find out accu­
rately what every man was doing, so we sent a form, a written form,
to every man in the organization. W e asked him to tell us just what
he did and to what foreman or subforeman or head of department
he reported. These various forms were all assembled and classified,
and like occupations were then assembled. W e found we had about
450 different occupations.
When we got these blanks together we found that there was a con­
siderable amount of correspondence. W e then took these various
classifications and got them in shape. I have a number of them, and
will read them to show what our people really do. You can see that
the job of finishing of poles is that of an ordinary day laborer. W e
have a number of employees doing this kind of work and felt they
comprised a specific class. The duties of another class involved re­
sponsibility, some familiarity with special conditions, and some pre­
vious experience, but did not involve the exercise of systematic judg­
ment. I could go on and specify 50 or 60 cases like these. W e classi­
fied the positions in each department. They were given to the head
of each department so that he would know what he had in his depart­
ment. W e then found that the job was only 50 per cent completed,
and we are now “ hooking up ” the kind of man who is best fitted for
that job. This is a big task, because there is great difficulty in ob­
taining definite information as to what occupation a man will fit.
We are getting along fairly well and hope later to have the entire
shop classified, so as to know what is what in each department. The
system classifies every man in the organization in the specific depart­
ment, and as changes in the organization come along we have a form
prepared. Then the employment department renews such record



and if we think it is proper we change our records and establish a
new job in our shop. Almost always it is possible for us to go right
to the man on the job. I say to him, “ I want you to tell me just
what you do every day.” I ask him to keep this form with him for
two or three days and tell him I will be back in a week or two and
want that he should make a card record of what he is doing. Then
I collect the records. That is our system. I have treated it from
the point of view of its practical application in our company.
The Chairman. The general subject of job analysis will also be
discussed by Mr. P. J. Nilsen, of Arthur Young & Co., Chicago, 111.

JO B A N A L Y S IS .
B Y P. J . N IL S E N , OF A R T H U R YO U NG & CO., CH ICAGO , IL L .

Whenever I think of job analysis I am reminded of the expression
“ square pegs in round holes.” You are all familiar with this ex­
pression. One of the speakers last night used it and it is a favorite
with writers on vocational guidance. Of course, the holes referred
to are the different positions that go to make an organization. If the
organization is represented by a chart, these holes might be rep­
resented by circles or rectangles of various dimensions depending
upon the importance or the kind of position. The pegs, then, are
the incumbents of these positions, or the persons all the way down
the line from president to messenger boy, who fill, or try to fill, these
holes. Now the number and kind of positions, or holes if you please,
are authorized and provided by the management and are fixed unless
changed by the management in a more or less formal and definite
way. These holes exist whether they are filled or vacant. But the
number and kind of pegs to go into these holes vary considerably
and depend upon conditions not easily controlled. It is the func­
tion of the employment department to keep these holes filled with
pegs that fit and that will stay “ put ” a reasonable length of time.
But you say, “ What has this got to do with job analysis ” ? Simply
this: I f the employment department is going to select pegs that fit
and will stay put (perhaps by the use of the trade tests that Mr.
Jones has told us about) it must know the dimensions and other char­
acteristics of the holes that are to be filled, that is the employment department must know the duties, the responsibilities, the compensation,
and the posibilities for each of the positions in the organization be­
fore it can set up its specifications for the kind of persons that should
be secured to fill them. In other words, job analysis is the first step
in preparing specifications for hiring.
There are several sources from which the information for job
analysis may be secured and each source should be fully utilized, even
though this may in cases mean some duplication of information.
First and foremost there is the original plan or intention of the
management that assigns certain responsibilities and duties to the
position. Then there is the established procedure or schedule of
operations (if the concern is far enough along to have established
its procedure). This may often be found in the form of rules,



regulations, standards, and other routine guides. Finally there is the
information that may be collected through actual examination into
the work being performed by the incumbent of the position. In
securing information from employees to be checked by their superiors
and to be matched against the data independently secured by the
management we have used what we call a duty sheet.
These duty sheets, or questionnaires as they might be called, con­
tain a series of questions on the duties of the positions analyzed and
are sent to the incumbent of each position. It will be found that the
usefulness of the answers received will depend upon the thought and
care taken in selecting the questions. I f the jobs analyzed occur in
a machine shop, the questions should be so framed that they may be
answered by “ Yes55 or “ No,” by entering a check mark or by insert­
ing a few figures or words. I f , on the other hand, a clerical position
is being analyzed more latitude may be allowed, for clerks, as a
rule, are more able to put their thoughts on paper than are mechanics.
There are many benefits, both direct and indirect, which should
result from a thorough-going job analysis. I will mention only a
few which to my mind are the most important.
1. The employment department secures a systematic and accurate
record of the duties, responsibilities, compensation, and possibilities
for each position.
2. Lines of authority and duties, which before were perhaps vague
and uncertain, are definitely established.
3. Wage and salary schedules are more completely standardized.
4. Blind-alley jobs are discovered and regular lines of promotion
are established.
5. The preparation of the duty sheets forces the employees to think
seriously about their jobs and this leads to intelligent interest on the
part of the workers.
Perhaps an illustration of the job analysis and the job specifications
might be of interest. I have chosen for my illustration a job about
which we all know a little rather than one about which a few of us
might know a great deal. The job is that of meter tester with an
electric company. These testers come into our houses to test the
meters and no doubt you have watched them at work. A job analysis
sheet for this position would be about as follows:
J ob A

n a l y s is .

Official classification title:
Departmental division:
Duties of the position:
Plan in line of authority:
Position of the next higher grade in the established line of promotion:



Standard schedule of compensation:
Starting rate.
Next advance.Maximum rate.

Tlie job specifications based on this analysis and used by the em­
ployment department would be something like this:
J ob S p e c if ic a t io n s .

Official title:
Departmental division:
Duties of the position:
Place in line of authority:
Position of the next higher grade in the established line o f promotion:
Limited schedule o f compensation:
A. Personal data:
1. Physical characteristics:
Preferred age.________, Height________ , Weight________ , Nationality
______________ , Appearance________________ , Bearing_______________ ,
Hands_________ , Eyesight__________ _
2. General character:
Honesty, integrity, responsibility, etc., loyalty.
3. Mental characteristics:
B. Training and experience:
1. Education (academic training).
2. Experience (practical training).
C. Knowledge and skill:
1. Knowledge of electrical circuits.
2. Knowledge o f measuring instruments and meters.
3. Manual of skill and dexterity in using small tools and in repairing

In closing let me say a word about the use of these job specifica­
tions. They really form the basis for the examination to which we
put the candidate. But we must admit that we are not very far
advanced in this work of examining employees. In the civil service
and other Government employment and in many public bodies the
technique of mental examinations and practical tests have been
brought to a high state of perfection.
The civil service commission in Chicago has a motto containing
words spoken by Fire Marshal Horden shortly before his death in
the stockyards fire:
“ We spend large sums of money selecting horses, why not spend
some on selecting men ? ”
The Chairman. I will now ask Mr. James T. Hutchings, of this
city, to tell us about the Rochester plan.


I think many of you have heard or read about the Rochester plan
in a great many places. It has been outlined in a number of maga­
zines. I gave a short account of it before the National Chamber of
Commerce in Chicago. Since then I was asked to describe it in a
general way before the shipbuilders in New York. There is nothing
new in our so-called Rochester plan. All there is to it is a question
of cooperation among the various manufacturers, having in mind at
this time the winning of the war. The problem was put up to us
last August by Maj. (now Col.) James, of the Ordnance Department.
Guns were to be built and two shell plants were to be equipped in
Rochester. Since August they have added a shell and a fuse plant
to manufacture fuses for the two shell plants. He put it up to us to
see that when these plants were occupied no time should be lost in
supplying the tools and that the guns should be produced in the
least possible time and the shells made as fast as possible. It was to
carry out this idea that a number of the Rochester manufacturers
associated themselves together to do what they could to carry out
that program. They thought that if the workers were to be paid and
the work was to be done and done systematically, it would require
an organization and there would be expenses. To meet these ex­
penses it was decided to assess each manufacturer in proportion to
the number of men in his working force, and since the greatest de­
mand would be for skilled labor, to make the assessment on the basis
of the number of skilled workmen in the employ of each manu­
facturer. In connection with this proposition a central employment
department was organized primarily to take care of the help in these
war industries. As the buildings progressed tools were brought in.’
Up to about the first of March* we were able to obtain the employees
required by the manufacturers without drawing from our other fac­
tories to any extent. The first move was to get from the various
manufacturers of the association a list of the applications they had
from men desiring positions, with the qualifications of the men.
These applications were classified. The Various employment man­
agers were asked to send to the central bureau any men they did not
need in their work. We also advertised in the surrounding cities and
brought in a considerable number from the neighborhood. I under-




stand tliere lias been considerable discussion about tliis. We felt that
the taking of help from one city to another is a mistake. I think
that the Government is trying to place the work with the men in­
stead of moving the men to the work. That is going to be true, except
in the assembling of ships. They must be assembled at the water
front. The problem is to use to the best advantage the available
help in our committees.
We can not expect to win this War—and that is the only thing we
think about to-day, and that is why this meeting is as full as it is,
1 believe, because we are here to win this War—we can not expect
to win this War, having everything we had before the War started.
We can not expect to have every comfort, we can not expect to have
every luxury. We can not expect to have every necessity or what
we thought was a necessity prior to the starting of this War and our
going into it. It can not be said that we were not lazy in this coun­
try prior to the War. What were we doing ? We were manufacturing
and producing the things that we all wanted and could pay for.
We were not equipped to send away a million and a half men. Now
they are taking off 5,000,000 men. To do that and to plan for a
million and a half or 5,000,000 men we must forego some of those
things. It is going to be necessary for us to see to it that the men
are well fed and clothed if we want to win as quickly as we can. I
feel very strongly that we have got to bring that about, and if we do
bring it about it is going to be by cooperation on the part of em­
ployers and employees in the placing of men where they are needed.
I f that has been effected thus far, let us do every other thing that
can possibly be done. Let us carry on business as usual and turn over
to the Government everything that we can get that can make it
possible to win this War. We have arrived at the point of greatest
difficulty in handling our local situation. I want to say right now
that a Rochester plan or a Syracuse plan or a Buffalo plan will not
necessarily work in Harrisburg or Pittsburgh or Philadelphia.
Up to July I had no cooperation with my employees. You can
not adopt a plan in any one place by making it similar to that in
any other place. You can adopt this plan of cooperation. We
brought in from the outside about 5,000 people and put them into
these industries. We now have between five and seven thousand, and
they will have to be taken care of when the situation becomes nor­
mal again. A large part of these are not highly skilled men. They
are skilled in a particular process, but not in any particular line.
Our problem is very similar to the shipbuilders. They have been
severely criticized for not having brought out more ships and we
have spent a tremendous amount of money, but when you recognize
that we are building 30 ships where we formerly built 1 and when



you recognize that that means 29 to 1 in every skilled position.
While there were plenty of hands there were only 1 to every 30 that
were needed to do this work. This has been done through teaching
and training men for these various skilled occupations. They have
had to use this one man to teach 29 more. That is the problem we
are up against now—-to take those men who are not organized to
bring the War to a successful issue and show them how to do it.
It is a question of cooperation, of getting the most work out of what
help we have. I f we can only stay in the War 10 years, I think we
can win the War by producing material.

D IS C U S S IO N .

Delegate. What steps are taken to control floating labor?

Mr. H utchings. It is a very hard matter to control floating labor
when advertisements are appearing for 400,000 men required by the
shipbuilders, and in all these advertisements which we see in the
newspapers every day young men who cover their families when
they put on their hats are going to move whenever the spirit moves
them. I do not know of any way, and haven’t heard of any, to hold
them. That is the ultimate problem we have—to control the men in
that situation. This question is a hard one and it always was a ques­
tion. Men like to see the country. We must catch a man as soon as
he comes to our country and get him to work as soon as we can. I
think our statistics show there are very few men that are not working,
except when on the road.
Delegate. How do you prevent competition between p l a n t s , pre­
vent men going from one plant to another?

Mr. H utchings. That is a question of cooperation.
Delegate. I would like to ask if the Rochester plan is merely the
organization of the employers and employees, and if the forming
of a central bureau was not a duplication of method, and why you did
not choose the Federal or State bureau to work with?
Mr. H utchings. We have used the very steps advocated by the
Federal and States Employment Bureau, but we have gone some­
what farther than that. I do not know that the Federal bureau
takes up the question of employers not entering into competition with
the Government in getting these workers. We have used the State
Employment Bureau in many instances to great advantage.
D elegate. Y ou said there was an expense in forming a central
bureau. W hy go to that expense?

Mr. H utchings. Each of the factories has its own employment
organization. They will not take an applicant until they have gone
through their list, in many cases because they do not want to
bother. We are in a situation to fill the jobs.
Mr. W inans. The reporter advised us that copies of the proceed­
ings in mimeograph form will be available within the week with
R. C. Bovit, Chamber of Commerce Building. If you will leave your
orders with him, they will be mailed at $5 a copy. A summary of



the proceedings will be printed in the Monthly Review of the Bureau
of Labor Statistics in the June issue, probably between June 7
and June 15.1 A special bulletin of the Bureau of Labor Statistics
containing the details will be issued during the summer. This is the
best arrangement the committee has been able to make under tho
Mr. B aknes. I want to speak of the Rochester plan, because I feel
how easily it could be applied in other cities. We were talking just
now about machinery and about cooperation. The Rochester plan
simply means the central organization of manufacturers and the
recruitment of labor under one head to effect maximum output of
war supplies. We all listened to the address last night and I believo
wTe are all in favor of building up a central employment system.
Whether you believe it or not it has got to come; we have got to
have some sort of system through which we can work the country's
labor supply as a whole. Therefore, if we are going to go into tho
War and produce the best advantage by the help of employees, both
men and women, then we must have a country-wide employment
system. At the present time we have what I believe is considered to
be a fairly successful system considering the amount of money
allowed by our legislature—that is, considering what our product is.
I f we have the Rochester plan, we have each city sitting by itself
and saying we will keep our men in our city and take whatever we
can from other places. You are talking about competition and how
inadvisable it is and how wrong. You all realize that any say that
within the city limits it is possible to steal. To my mind the Roches­
ter plan simply opens an opportunity to steal from another city.
We are willing to turn over all our machinery for the benefit of this
city and every other city in the State of New York. If they had used
the same money and put it into the machinery of the State system,
they would have had more effective work done. They say they have
used us. That is true.
They have. We have been willing and
anxious to be used and would have been willing to have them place as
many people as they have employed in their so-called central bureau
and to give them full power, provided they knew the difference be­
tween a lathe hand and a farmer. That is what ought to be done. I
am going to speak frankly. In maintaining this Rochester plan, they
have rented a building right alongside of what we built up to save the
farmer. We need farmers. I believe that although you represent
factories you realize that unless we get seed into the ground now we
will Hooverize next winter because nature requires it. For that reason
I have, through the Food Commission, got the power to call for 30
men to appoint food specialists, people who might be used in farm

1See Monthly Review for June, pp. 1G8-177.



work. I am also doing some work to help in the shipyards. I know
how necessary it is that all the shipyards get the proper number of
men. This season we consider it is better for men to go on the farm.
What I do want to say is that if we are going to get results, we must
have one piece of machinery. The best thing would be to have a sin­
gle system that will cover the whole country. The State systems are
going to do that. In order to do that they are not to cover such little
places as are considered in the Rochester plan.
Delegate. For three and one-half years I was the labor commis­
sioner of the State of Ohio, conducting the public employment offices
in that State. Besides that I had the supervision of about 143 pri­
vate employment offices in the State of Ohio. I am to-day connected
with a motor company, of Cleveland, in welfare and employment work.
As such, I have been in the employment offices in the city of Cleve­
land and picked the men to go to work. I am not the only one who
has been looking for recruits. There are others from Cleveland doing
likewise. We have in various locations as many as 200 men employed
in the public employment office in Cleveland. The point I intend to
make is this: You may establish as many employment*offices as you
like, but that does not put the men to work. That is my experience.
The public employment offices in England were held up last night to
show how successful they were. In England they are 15 years ahead
of us in America. It is only five minutes since a speaker said that
the Legislature of New York had not seen the necessity of aiding
the employment office of the State. So it is with the funds that have
been allowed the National Employment Office, I believe. The arch­
enemy we are fighting to-day is Germany. Germany has prepared
for the War and has skilled men and women between 18 and 55. If
the work in a factory is not productive, they compel John Schmidt
to go to a factory that is productive or go to jail. By conscripting
everyone that will not work you will eliminate all these troubles.
A. K. Doucet, employment manager, Laclede-Cliristy Clay Prod­
ucts Co., St. Louis, Mo. I want to talk about the Rochester plan.
The advantage of the Rochester plan as now managed is this: When
you get a man into your employ you do not classify him once, but
five, six., seven, or eight times. When you want a man, or 10 or
20 men, you can go to the files and get them. I had occasion to try
this out and found this to be so. As to the State employment bu­
reaus, they are as good in New York State as anywhere. From St.
Louis in 10 months they shipped out 5,000 men. Here is an employ­
ment office that confines its work to getting men and keeping them in
Rochester. I think if you men will'think over this plan, you will
go home and think it is the best possible plan.
Delegate. I would like to ask Mr. Barnes what plan he has to
keep the men in one place?



Mr. B arnes. Tlie plan we have for stabilizing them is that we ask
that no advertising be done in the particular city in which the office
is located. We refuse to send out of town any workers of the kind
for which we know there are orders in that city. That is the only
method of stabilizing you can have. For instance, we kept Syracuse
from having any orders until Syracuse lost over 8,000 men. That
was only about four months ago. We let some of those men go out,
but we advised with the plants whether or not we should send out
certain men. As soon as trained men began to be assembled 111
Syracuse, we began to let the orders go, and our office is letting any
orders go to any other cities. I am sa}dng that if you have any sort
of a plan that you call the Rochester plan it is better to have one
plan than tAvo. I only ask that you work it under one management.
We are trying to get the best way of dealing with labor. No dis­
tinctions are drawn.
Mr. W ells. The committee having the matter under consideration
recommends that a national association of employment managers bo
organized at this convention. You have heard the recommcndatiQn
of the committee. The question is open for discussion. The com­
mittee would like to know whether you will authorize it to proceed
and prepare a definite plan for the organization of such an associa­
tion and report at the meeting to-morrow morning. That question
is now open for discussion.
H erbert E. H errod, president Mahoning Valley Employers’
Association, Youngstown, Ohio. May the committee formulate a
plan of admitting both employment managers and individual em­
ployment managers where no central association exists? It seems
to me from experience that it is necessary in order to obtain the
greatest good from an organization of this kind. I have watched
with a great deal of interest the growth of sentiment and whether or
not we can agree with all that has been done here; it is a method by
which an expression of the sentiment from all over the country can
be heard. I think the committee should design such a plan or a
composite plan.

The Ch airm an . The committee submitted this plan in order that
it might be recognized.
Capt. F isiier. There is no doubt about the need of a National asso­
ciation. We recognized such a need last year. As the development
in employment work up to that time had mainly dealt with local
troubles, it was considered advisable to make a start at a National
association. I should like to see such an association formed for sev­
eral reasons. I should like to see the employment manager able to
receive help from the employment office, in order that what action he



takes may be authentic and authorized by employment managers. As
other departments of the Government aro assigning men, I should
like the employment managers’ association, if one exists, to assign a
man to work with the committee when that committee brings in a
plan before the convention. Then, if it is necessary to cooperate with
the Federal Government, the association ought to be able to as­
sign some person representing our point of view to work in conjunc­
tion with the Federal bureau. "I think it is necessary that men who
are on the job should have their opinion heard in the National Gov­
ernment, that an association be organized for that purpose. 1
should like to ask if the committee has formulated any plan of
representation in this proposed organization. Is it going to be a mat­
ter of representation as we have it here? Is it going to be open to
everybody who may happen to be an employment agent or a repre­
sentative of a State employment association such as we have in a
number of States ? I think the committee must tell us something of
what their plan is going to be, rather than ask us to organize an
association without much consideration.
The C h a ir m a n . I might say that the committee considered this
plan and prefer to hear the discussion on the floor. It is proposed
that we have a National association composed entirely of managers of
firms. I think the committee agreed that it should be composed of
individual employment managers and also of managers who might
attend this convention. One plan was that there should be a National
association composed of membership by firms. Another plan was
that the present membership by local associations should be continued
and that there should be added to that membership all firms who
would contribute certain sums of mony. There was a slight difference
of opinion as to whether after the association was formed the mem­
bership should be by firms or by local organizations.
It is moved that we accept the report of the committee and pro­
ceed to election.

D e le g a t e . Before we adopt this I would like to hear some one
ask the right to direct any gigantic movement of this kind. I have
not heard, and I do not think any delegate has or any of the mem­
bers have heard, anybody say who has the authentic right. I want
it recommended by some one close to the Secretary of Labor.
D e le g a t e . Has anyone more right than one of the managers them­
selves? I represent one of the managers of Pittsburgh. We are
trying to start a movement, if it meets with the approval of the
people here present. I f it does, we propose to get the managers
representing the various associations of the country together and
present a report to-morrow morning. Personally, I think it does
meet with your approval.



The C h a ir m a n . It has been moved and seconded that we proceed
to the formation of a national association of emplc^ment managers.
The Chair will state that when that motion is carried definite in­
structions will be given to the committee or to some other com­
mittee to formulate a plan.
[The ayes have it. Motion carried.]
Dr. T a lb o t . In 1910 I had the pleasure of establishing a great
many service departments. At that time we were interested in wel­
fare, and the service department I had was new. I wijl follow the
history of that move since that time. Firm after firm has become
convinced of the advantage of that service. In 1912 I published a
list of 200 firms that had service departments. Since that time the
number has been steadily growing and I venture to say that we now
have in this country 20,000 firms that have service departments, and
this is no small matter. It has been a matter of State education
since 1910. This meeting augurs to me the widest and biggest move­
ment toward industrial democracy in this country and real de­
mocracy, American democracy, of any that has been organized. I
would suggest that we make our membership just as democratic as
possible, and, in view of the fact that the matter has been gone into
in the utmost details in the experience of the National Safety Coun­
cil, I think it would be well for the committee to take into consid­
eration the organization of the National Safety Council, which Mr.
Palmer will recall was started in a small way. At the second meet­
ing in Pittsburgh there was only a group of men around a table.
If this organization is going to do a large amount of detailed work,
there must be money to do it with. We have to have a large mem­
bership, and that the dues may not be so excessive as to keep out
members that organization should have perhaps fifty or a hundred
thousand. Therefore, I would recommend procuring sufficient funds,
as the National Safety Council has done.

D e l e g a t e . I make the motion that the national committee of
employment managers be authorized to take into consideration the/
membership of local employment associations and of members of the
State association.
[Motion seconded by Mr. Gowin, of New York.

Motion carried. ]

The C h a ir m a n . I think there should be a discussion as to whether
or not opportunity should be given for members in localities not
having any association. It has been moved that the individual em­
ployment managers comprise the membership of the national asso­
[There was no second to the motion.]



D elegate. The term “ firm ” has come up so frequently, that I want
to ask if the managers are going to fall back on the firms for funds?

The C hairman . It means that if the individual changes his posi­
tion or is promoted he is a member of the association, because it is
making him more valuable for the work of the concern. I believe the
majority of the concerns have no hesitation in taking the costs of the
membership as part of the legitimate expenses.
D elegate. D o you gentlemen who represent firms want to repre­
sent your firms Or by members individually?

The C hairm an . I will take the liberty of saying that the national
committee would like to meet immediately after the banquet.
The suggestion has been made that the membership be made up of
managers, and then that it would be a question of accepting indi­
viduals, whether members or not.
M eyer B loomfield, head of Industrial Service Department, Emer­
gency Fleet Corporation, Washington, D. C. I want to say one or two
words which may be of some use in the plan of the national associa­
tion. It is certainly very gratifying that a great many visitors here
present are delegates who do not happen to be members of local
organizations. There is not the slightest doubt that they are as wel­
come as the members of associations, because, as the meetings are con­
ducted, I suppose everybody stands on the same footing.
I would like to point out how a national association may vastly
promote the growth of local associations and strengthen the already
existing association. I urge upon you gentlemen to consider very
seriously one of two lines of policy because what you decide to-day or
to-morrow will determine the fate of the local association. In my
judgment the great value of a National Association is in its rep­
resenting the force and the strength of the existing and new labor
associations. I f it becomes something else to the detriment, to the
weakness, or to the obliteration of the labor associations within a
'year or two, we shall have the following situation: The National As­
sociation, so called, will be fighting for its existence as a National
body with its own system of plants and its own internal affairs, and
local associations will have to decide ultimately to abolish their identity or to be replaced by a new local body or plan some countermove
to keep themselves alive. I think the ultimate determination will be
the extermination of the local associations for this reason. We have
a new situation with a new version of the labor problem which must
be solved locally. The local association is 011 the job all the time.
The National Association will have one annual meeting and jubilee
and the directors leave here appointing a committee. Many of the
members of the employment managers’ association will comc from a



widely scattered area. The largest contribution will come from the
associations on the job. Also, as to those who have no opportunity
to belong to associations, I would suggest that the committee that is
planning this work make provision to include the membership of
those who are too far away from existing societies. We want their
brains and counsel. If there are gentlemen who will be in sympathy
with it, we want them to join the association, to change this if they
do not like it. It is their duty to join those associations. The Na­
tional Association should represent chiefly the combination member­
ship of those associations with the additional strength of individuals.
I want to caution you against adopting any resolution that will
weaken or undermine the strength of the existing societies, and I
might say the National Safety Council offered its services to the
Government a year ago, which services were accepted. I suggest
that the committee will find it of value to get in conference with
the chairman of the National Safety Council.
Dr. T albot. I would like to call to the attention of Mr. Bloom­
field the experience of the American Medical Association, the exist­
ence of its own membership and its representing the growth of local
associations[Session adjourned.]

77920°— 19------ 10

F R ID A Y , M A Y 10— E V EN IN G SESSION— B A N Q U E T .

The C h a ir m a n . This day is a day memorable to you who are inter­
ested in employment management. It is a day memorable in his­
tory from the standpoint of several nations which are now engaged
in the greatest conflict of all times. On May 10 , years since Charles
the First signed the act that created a perpetual Parliament for
England; on May 10 , in the early history of our own country,
Ethan Allen captured Fort Ticonderoga and struck one of the blows
which laid the foundation for this democracy in which we live; on
this day the Franco-Prussian War in 1871 came to an end by impos­
ing upon Erance an indemnity of one billion dollars and taking from
that country—for a while—the Provinces of Alsace and Lorraine.
This has been in many ways a remarkable convention. I feel that
all of you who have been here have been impressed with the spirit,
the earnestness of purpose, and the character of those who have
taken part in these meetings. The attendance at the convention has
impressed not one, but all of you, with the fact that we who are
here realize these are war times and that we are in earnest in our
desire to serve and do what we are told to do. This convention has
significance from two standpoints; and I want to emphasize them to
you. It is of significance not merely from the standpoint of war
service but of the future. Out of this tremendous world upheaval
in which we as a nation are now taking part, what is to come?
I question whether any of us really grasps the significance and the
import of the forces that are at work. One of the oldest and most
experienced and ablest of the statesmen of Japan, who is viewing this
world conflict from the other side of the globe, says that this con­
flict marks the death of European civilization. Is it true ? What is
before us? This is sure. We are not going back to the time and
conditions of the past. We are going to meet at best new orders
and new conditions. It is wise indeed that we here firmly resolve
to devote ourselves and our best energy to winning the war, to dedi­
cate ourselves in the presence of each other to that end and to pledge
ourselves, ere this convention draws to an end, that we will stand
united till the day of victory.



Nevertheless, in the particular actions that we may be called upon
to perform in order to win this war it will be necessary that we be
governed by policy that looks far into the future and that we con­
sider all the lessons, the struggles, the suffering, the successes, and
the failures of the past. To guide us wisely now it is essential that
we have the highest talents of statesmanship. We who are particu­
larly interested in the problems of labor are met to-night to con­
sider a national labor policy and to consider the various phases that
weave themselves about that policy.
Many of you lost a very warm friend in the death of Robert Val­
entine, one of the most noble of gentlemen and one of the highest of
idealists. We are privileged to have with us his associate, a man
who not only belongs to the firm of which Mr. Valentine was a mem­
ber, but who has rendered service in other lines as a professor on
employment in Columbia University, and as one of the editors of
the New Republic. I take great pleasure in introducing to you to­
night Prof. Ordway Teacl, who will outline to you some thoughts
that he has on the subject of a national labor policy at the present





P O L IC Y .


There has been in vogue in New York this winter the parlor game
of “ Telling the Government how to run the war.” The chief
qualification for playing that game at after-dinner parties has been
a complete ignorance as to what the Government is doing in the war.
With us who are administering the Government labor policy in par­
ticular factories, this is no after-dinner proposition. It seems to me
that if we are going to discuss the elements of a prospective labor
policy for the country we can do no better than familiarize our­
selves with the situation as it stands at the moment, because I think
most of us who have been at Washington since we entered the War
and who have been watching developments constantly feel somewhat
reassured that a national labor policy of some clearness and definite­
ness and of some effectiveness has already been formulated; I would
like to take a moment to trace the way in which and the success with
which we have met the situation to date.
It is astonishing to realize the extent to which the Federal Gov­
ernment has been able either directly or indirectly to come to work­
ing agreements with the trades-unions of our country. I wonder il
you realize the extent to which that has already taken place. The
cantonments were all built on a basis of a memorandum between Sec­
retary Baker and Mr. Gompers which called for the preservation of
union standards at that work. The longshoremen who load the
ships for Europe and the seamen who sail the ships are operating
under collective agreements with the Government. The ships are
all being built under an agreement between eight of the Interna­
tional unions and the Federal Government. All the leather work of
the Government is being done under a collective agreement. The
fuel for our industries and ships is being mined under similar agree­
ments. The major part of the railroad employees are organized and
operating under collective agreements. Since the investigative
work in the West done by the commission so notably headed by our
chief guest of the evening, the President’s Mediation Commission,
there have been set up agreements in Arizona, St. Paul in the North­
west, and in California. The victory of the workers that took place
in the packing industry was accomplished through an investigation,
the machinery for which was set in motion by Secretary Wilson’s



commission, and now the great packing industry of the country is
operating under virtually union standards.
And finally we have had a bringing together of all the threads, a
national embodiment of our whole policy, the creation of the socalled Taft-Walsh board, equally representative of the employers
and the organized labor of the country. It is the task of the board
to decide the merits of all disputes for the handling and adjustment
of which there is no other provision made. How many workers
these agreements represent it is hard to say, but it is wide of the
mark to think that the Government in respect to the basic industries
has not mapped out and is not operating under a policy upon which
it intended to proceed.
The several items upon which there has been a certain agreement
running through these several documents and negotiations are worthy
of note. In the first place, they all embody the principle that all griev­
ances—all matters upon which there is a difference of opinion be­
tween workers and the management—shall be considered by joint
bodies representing both workers and management. Almost all of
them have embodied the important principle that minimum wages
should be paid in some correct relation to fluctuation in prices and
the cost of living. Almost without exception—there are- some ex­
ceptions—the important industries are operating under a basic eighthour day. The right to organize has been recognized, and the other
principles, drawn up under direction of the Taft-Walsh board, the
details of which have been so recently in the papers, are already
familiar to you.
The significant fact about the Government labor policy, so far as
I have outlined it, is that in these industries, with two or three com­
paratively insignificant exceptions, there have been no cessations of
work since the undertaking of these joint arrangements. Instances
will come to your mind at once, instances where there have been such
cessations—Norfolk, Bethlehem, Bridgeport. In all of the cases
which you will call to mind I think it will be found that they are
cases in which the several policies that I have been noting are not
and have not been enforced. There had not been in those cases
a contract for joint negotiations. Unfortunately—and those who are
close to affairs in Washington will agree with me—unfortunately
within the War Department itself it has not seemed advisable as yet to
set up complete joint representative machinery for the settlement of
grievances, similar to that machinery which there has been formed
in-respect to the longshoremen, the sailors, and the shipbuilders. So
that these three instances—and others might be mentioned of work
that is being done for the War Department—are cessations which
have taken place because the Government labor policy has not yet
become operative.



So important, however, has been this shipbuilding agreement
which 1 have mentioned, that it is not amiss to understand what
gains have already been made in the adjustments made under it.
This has an interest quite outside simply shipbuilding circles. You
realize, of course, that to-day there are over 240,000 workers in the
shipyards, which are scattered geographically, so that working stand­
ards set in these yards have their effect in communities adjoining.
After all, when we consider the labor standards and policy pursued in
the shipyards, we are considering not simply shipyard work, but the
standards which the Government has set, and which by virtue of its
example, are having to be adopted in other industries in near-by
What has the Shipbuilding Labor Adjustment Board done? It
has now adjusted and given out awards respecting the conditions of
labor in all the shipyard districts of the country, so that we can pass
in review the policies which these awards represent. The most im­
portant and the most far-reaching of these policies is this: There
are now in the shipyards of the country only two wage scales, one
on the Pacific coast, and the other applying in the Atlantic, Gulf,
and Great Lakes districts. An astonishing degree of uniformity of
scales has.been set in force; and for reasons of reducing incentive
for any movement of labor between shipyards. These wage stand­
ards have been set on the basis of the cost of living. Just now the
rest of us—those of us who are interested not only in shipbuilding but
in the War Department contracts, in the Quartermaster's Division,
Ordnance Department, and Aircraft, and those who are interested in
the Navy Yard—are interested to understand how all these Govern­
ment departments feel that they are going to hold the help that they
have without that uniformity and equality of scale which the ship­
yards have established. We know that the rates set up in the ship­
yards are in many instances higher than rates already being paid in
certain of the other contract shops. That is one of the matters upon
which our policy has not yet come to a complete clarity. We have
not completely sized up the situation. But the shipyards have the
men and are offering inducements to them. The only question is
the work incentive and some sort of uniform scale for the other de­
partments. Shipyard agreements have all said that a maximum of 60
hours a week with not more than 12 hours a day is a desirable stand­
ard of working hours, the idea being to keep efficiency as high as
possible. Each one of the shipyard awards has specified a careful
procedure under wdiich grievances are to be carried through commit­
tees, coming, if necessary, to the board itself. The awards have set
minimum requirements of physical working conditions and sanitary
equipment that must be provided. And finally they have done one
important thing, they have said that in those yards where piece rates



are in vogue there shall be no cutting of the piece rate during the
War; and have required that a notice to that effect shall be posted
in a convenient and accessible place in all yards.
All this is a very remarkable achievement. It is a remarkable
achievement to have accomplished a definition of the policy upon so
many important questions. Whether we all agree that these are
desirable policies is another question, but the fact remains they have
been adopted and those standards are operating for some 250,000
men, which number will have increased to nearly 500,000 men by
the end of the summer; so that this is not to be ignored. These
labor standards are something that you and I have to reckon with
whether we agree with them or not.
In the carrying out of these awards there have been certain dis­
crepancies noted which it is not amiss to consider, because it seems
to me that they point in the direction of the problems we have
been considering at this convention, and they point to those features
upon which there has not yet come complete clarity in our national
policy. One of the burning questions brought up at the adjustment
board’s hearings has been the question: Who is to determine and
how is it to be determined who the skilled men are among those
applying for employment? So far as craftsmen are concerned there
have been two classifications made—that is, calling them first and
second class mechanics. When a man applies to the yard, who is to
determine whether he is first class, second class, or a helper, or a
laborer? That is one of the questions which the board has not yet
answered. Who is to decide—who is to make the effort of getting the
union men and the men with whom the unions are in touch, who are
admittedly skilled, from the nonessential industries in the Middle
West into the war industries? Who is to see to getting these men
into essential industries near the coast? The Department of Labor
has told me officially that, in the past, refusals of employment have
sometimes confronted such men when they have been brought to the
coast. What is going to be done to effect the most proper and the
most rapid transfer of skilled men to the right places in essential
industries in the East?
Another problem which will require the consideration not only of
ourselves, but of union officials, and upon which the board will have
to pass soon, I believe, is the question of the differentials in the
rates of crafts. The Shipbuilding Labor Adjustment Board took
the position that in cities where, for example, for various reasons,
the building trades wTere strong and had high rates in comparison
with the rates paid in the metal trade, it would preserve the exist­
ing differentials. It now develops that some of the less-favored
unions are coming to the board and asking for increases that will
make their rates the equivalent of the higher rates in their districts.



The situation where the machinists, the boiler makers, and the
plumbers get different wage scales will, I believe, eventually call
for definite action and agreements on a national scale between the
employers, the Government, and the union officials as to differentials,
that will preserve on a national scale the proper relation between
the rates at the different trades. For example, boiler maker in rela­
tion to machinist, and toolmaker in relation to coppersmith.
A further question that we in this convention have already con­
sidered, upon which it is going to be important for the board
to make a decision is this: At what rate and on what conditions are
the men in training going to be introduced into factories and yards ?
It may be that we will partially train so many men that after the
War we will have an extraordinary supply of semiskilled and skilled
mechanics for whom there wTill be no place. What is to be our policy
for those so trained after the War? How will we safeguard the
opportunities for employment for skilled people both now and after
the War?
And a final problem that has not been met in the shipbuilding
situation, and certainly, therefore, has not been met in less organized
industries, is the securing of the active, positive, constructive in­
terest of the unions in shipbuilding efficiency as such. The fact is
that we have not yet called a national conference largely representa­
tive of organized labor to draw out the utmost interest and skill,
in order to pool that interest and skill and to learn the best possible
working methods and tricks of each trade from the people in each
yard who have them for use in every shipyard. We have not yet
called in the national labor leaders in the shipyard unions and said,
“ You have expressed your willingness to help in securing a supply
of skilled men and have been showing what is the right way. How
is production being hampered; are methods or ways affecting rout­
ing of work and various other questions of practice and policy being
introduced that will get results? What help can you give in the
criticism of production methods ? And then what help can you give
us in assuring that your men are living up to the promises we have
had with regard to a full day’s work, more apprentices, etc. ? ”
Because, after all, we are not going to get interest, we are not going
to get cooperation, we are not going to get maximum utilization of
energy until we get some sense of responsibility in the minds of the
people whom until now we have called in in a half-hearted way,
called in and asked to help in the shipbuilding program without
realizing how that help is to be best secured.
The thing we need is not to go back on our policy; the thing we
need is to go ahead with our policy. We have a national labor
policy, a policy of joint representation, a policy of conference on
these problems, and the only trouble with the policy is that we have



not applied it enough. The basis of our policy, and the basis of a
successful future policy, is the inviting into and the requiring of joint
conference and joint consideration and joint decision of workers and
management alike on our problems of selection, on our problems of
training, on the problems which will come up for consideration after
the War, the problems of getting our crippled men back into indus­
try, the problems of getting the maximum of efficiency out of our
equipment and out of our workers. Upon all these questions the
only way in which the maximum of interest is to come is by that
joint participation in control.
Now, I am confident, and am sorry, that some of you are probably
feeling that this development will not be in the direction of wisdom;
that it will be a policy of knuckling under, of simply accepting the
inevitable. I assure you it is not that at all. The situation and the
demand for a new policy are dictated not by any demand to knuckle
under to anybody. Our policy is dictated by a far more fundamental
demand, the universal demand of human nature to express itself with
maximum effect and to the best advantage. To-day if we know any­
thing we know this, that human nature does not express itself with
maximum effect and to the best advantage unless it concentrates its
energies under conditions where it is asked to assume responsibility
and where it has some guaranty that in so doing it is not endangering
its whole position.
It seems to me, therefore, that the basis of a successful national
policy is to continue as we have been going, and to secure as rapidly
as possible its extension into other fields. And so I say that our
national labor policy is one that requires consideration by workers
and management alike of the question of training, of the question of
selection of workers, of the question of definitions of skill, of the
question of uniformity of wage rates, one that brings them into com­
mon council and decides them on a common basis; because after all we
have not only to consider the practical question of best mechanical
methods but the equally practical question of the way in which human
nature works best.
But we are pursuing this policy also for another reason equally
far-reaching, equally fundamental to consider at this hour. We are
doing it because it is thus that we foster responsibility, arouse intel­
ligent interest, and create the sense of participation in control,
Avhich is the very essence of democracy. I f we are fighting for de­
mocracy in Germany we are fighting for democracy in industry no
less. We have had a strange notion all these years that democracy
was confined in its expression to the ballot. That is not so. De­
mocracy, if it means anything, in its application not only to industry
but to all human activity, means two things: A spiritual change and
an institutional change. It means that we are going to treat people



as an end in themselves, something to be worked for, and something
to develop as individuals, as personalities. And it means that our
institutions in politics and industry must be adjusted and reorganized
to make possible that participation of individuals in affairs, which
constitutes real democratic government, which makes real develop­
ment of personality possible.
The only way to go on and fight our War in a big way, in a way
that meets the demands of the future, is to fight it on the basis of this
representative control in industry.
And, finally, the point to be remembered about our democratic
government and our democratic future is this: Democratic govern­
ment and democratic control are not to be exerted by people who are
dumped into the middle of industrial control all at once. Respon­
sibility is to be learned, acquired, and intelligently used only by
people who have had the chance to exercise responsibility. People
do not have that chance in industry until they secure it ; and they do
not secure it until there is representation of the workers in the local
and national government of industry.
Our policy is in the right direction. Let us go on with it. Let us
carry it through to the end, and we will win the War all along the
line, from the outermost trench from the frontiers of freedom to the
humblest workbench, on this basis of assuring the worker that he is
going to be actually a partner in industry, not only a partner in it
during the War, but in that era of democratic expansion which is
inevitably coming after the War.
The C h a ir m a n . This convention is of deep significance to the men
who are here, in that it has tended to stimulate the recognition as a
profession of the task and work of an employment manager. This
convention marks the completion of the first course in employment
management given in our university. Most of the people present
are here in the capacity of employment or service managers. Their
standing is being recognized more and more and the hope and aim
and aspiration of those engaged in that work is that they may come
in time to be considered as essential a part of industry as the me­
chanical engineer or the chemist, or the highly technical men who
are called in to advise and assist in the direction of industry. These
employment managers are to become the industrial counselors, the
industrial engineers of industry. That fact, of course, means a great
deal to all of you who are here in this convention. It is with particu­
lar pleasure that we have with us to-night a man who foresaw this,
a man who has contributed much to the end we are now attaining.
Tonight you have heard groups from various cities expressing them­
selves in one way and another. A great many of those organizations



came into being in the last six or seven years as the result of the
activities of the man I am about to introduce to you.
From the industrial standpoint one fact has impressed me more
since the War began than any other, and that was the recent launch­
ing of the steel vessel of 5,700 tons, the Tuchahoe, which was launched
from a New Jersey shipyard 27 days after her keel was laid, that
vessel which they promised to deliver in 15 days from the date of her
launching. We have come to realize the necessity of ships and that
we will have to bridge the Atlantic with a line of ships to win the
War. We have been long in getting under wTay; but that fact brought
home to us a knowledge and pride in the fact that we w^ere beginning
to adjust our industrial condition to the accomplishment of this end.
And in the bringing about of those conditions which have made pos­
sible such an achievement as the building of that ship, Mr. Meyer
Bloomfield has had an important part. Mr. Bloomfield is the head of
the industrial service section of the Emergency Fleet Corporation,
and it is with great pride and pleasure that I introduce him to you to­










Tlie past 24 hours have been eventful in the history of employ­
ment management. A new profession has come into being. The
inspiring graduation exercise of yesterday and the spirit of this con­
vention have sealed the fact. The American people especially owe a
debt of gratitude to Mr. Noyes, to the Rochester Chamber of Com­
merce, and to the University of Rochester, if for no other contribu­
tion than that of turning out nine men among the number to go back
to the shipyards as employment managers. We shall soon have 18
men who have finished these courses at Rochester and at Harvard.
They will have work enough to do. In 1916 there were something
like 36 shipyards with less than 65,000 workers. Last October when
we began to keep the shipyard records there were something like
100 shipyards with 100,000 employees. There are to-day 152 ship­
yards with 280,000 employees, and by next September we shall prob­
ably have 400,000 workers.
Now, this is “ some ” problem in human management. The rapid
inflow of so many men, with the effect of necessarily lower efficiency
and necessarily large labor turnover, means—if we are to have the
bridge of ships across the Atlantic, if we are to maintain that thin
line from here to the western front, if we are to supply this vital
need, a need which touches the very life of our war program—
that we must have more employment managers who are trained. So
Rochester has made a very significant contribution to the most neces­
sary part of America’s war program just now.
It is well, while we take satisfaction in the birth of a new profes­
sion, to pause for a few moments for some rather sobering reflection.
I f this be a new profession indeed, as we believe it is and must be,
because men who work in the twentieth century will demand as a
right that they shall be supervised and aided by trained minds and
humane spirit, if we have a new profession it follows as a matter of
course that this new profession will repeat the history of the ups
and downs of the old professions. And what is that history ? It is
one of gradually increasing standards of performance on the part of
the practitioner. It is the history of divisions into schools of thought
and practice; and finally it is a history of gradual subjection to



public and social scrutiny, if not control. Now, that is what you
must look forward to in your profession as employment managers.
As much as any existing profession, and perhaps more than any
profession, the handling of men is, in legal phraseology, “ affected
•with” a public interest. The employment of men, the supervision
of the industrial bargain, has become a matter for legislation, for
social supervision. This convention, and all that it symbolizes, rep­
resents infinite advance over conditions 10 years ago, when there were
no employment managers’ association, no employment managers’
convention, no modern handling of men, and no public pronounce­
ment, so far as I am aware, of the fact that selecting a man to do a
piece of work called for high moral and mental qualities.
Now, it is a long step in advance that men from important places
of employment should gather to demonstrate the fact that we have
here a serious business calling for straight thinking and high pur­
pose. If 10 years have done this what will you be thinking of, and
what wTill others be thinking of in this field 10 years from now?
For this reason I want to propound two or three questions. I
won’t attempt to answer them; I don’t think I know how to answer
them. I do know that these questions are going to confront you,
and that you will have to take a position with respect to answers
to them. This profession will not stand still during the years
that you will be busy perfecting your technique, your apparatus,
your relationship to the management and to the men. The fact
that you stand in a unique mediating capacity, in the capacity
of interpreter between management and men will pledge you to
make the effort to find an answer to questions such as these. If you
are a common denominator between management and men will it
always be the case that the management alone shall pay your salary?
I am not pretending that I know the answer, but I do know that if
there is any life, any dynamic spark in this profession, some such
question will arise in the upward development of your practice. If
your service is of as great importance and value to the masses of
workers as it is to the management, is it too fanciful an idea to sug­
gest that perhaps the workers themselves through some form or an­
other may choose to look upon you or some representative of your
profession as one of their allies and associates quite as they have
looked upon the lawyer or the physician or any other specialist whose
\services are open to all who seek that service ?
If employment is a semipublic or public function essentially, what
is to be the public’s and the Government’s ultimate relation with the
men who follow the principles and the technique of this very vital
and industrial service?
Now, these are just a few of the problems which will face the
growing movement. They will call for insight, for vision, for a



freedom from prejudice and tradition quite as much as these quali­
ties have been called for in your establishment of a new profession.
The capacity for your growth, and of the growth of this movement
will be fostered by the response, the absence of resistance to funda­
mental tendencies, and by the ready and cheerful openness of mind .
to face the utmost challenge of your position and of your philosophy
at any moment.
These are some of the problems. I had no thought of any solution.
But they are to be thought of by men who are growing in a grow­
ing profession. With that growth of the spirit of progress kept
alive, whatever the ultimate challenge, whatever the ultimate de­
mand, if you are true to the vision, you will make the contribution
which this movement is making more and more to industrial peace,
to industrial prosperity, and to industrial justice. It is my feeling
that to-night, that for the past 10 years, we have laid only the
corner stone of a great industrial structure, the final aspect of which
the future alone will disclose. We need to pray only that the spirit
of workmanship and the spirit of progress may guide us in laying
the other stones and rearing the structure to come.
The Chairman. I had hoped that to-night we could clearly see the
tremendous significance to us, individually and as a nation, of the
decisions that we are making at this time in connection with our
labor and industrial policies. Not only do we have to make these
decisions in order to win this War, but in the very making of them at
this time we are determining our future and, perhaps, the future of
all countries. We are going to face either the death of civilization
or the creation of a new social order, and the acts of this moment are
those that are going to determine that future. Are we to come
through with a social and political reconstruction, or otherwise? Is
it true that society is to be reconstructed as a result of our efforts
through this War, and the necessary efforts that we have to make in
order that industry may be devoted to winning the War?
We were told early in the conflict that victory would rest with the
nations that had the greatest industrial resources. That fact has not
yet come home to us in America, as it will during the coming 12
months. The conditions of the past, when we might have an army
in the field and yet carry on “ business as usual,” can not prevail in
this War. The essential of this War is that nations $iall be organized
to the last unit for the purpose of the War; that everyone, man and
woman, shall be organized to devote 100 per cent of their efforts to
the common purpose. This is not a War merely involving the use of
troops. It is a question of guns, of munitions, of airplanes, and of
ships; and, more than that, it is a War of the morale of the troops,
scarcely less important than the morale of those who are assembled in
industry. Last fall, following the disaster, the temporary disaster,



to the troops of Italy along the line of the Osonzo, what was the
danger to Europe? Was it that we questioned the morale of the
troops of France or of England or of the other countries of the
allies? No. In spite of the insidious propaganda of the Hun there
was no question as to the morale of those who were at home. The
morale of the working people and of the nations at home is every
•whit as vital as the morale of the troops in the field, and that is what
we are concerned with, wliat we are facing, what we are compelled to
determine. We can feel to-day that many of the steps necessary to
the winning of the War have been undertaken. We have no question
as to our supplies of munitions. They will be abundant. We feel
now that the gun program is well under way, and it is no longer a
question of worry. The shipbuilding program is a matter of almost
certain accomplishment. The next news will be that the airplane
program is in force beyond any question of doubt. But we are
coming to one, the biggest question of all, to determine the labor
machinery and policy necessary to carry on all these activities and
to support life and existence at the same time. That is what we are
facing. And to-day the Department of Labor and the ministers of
labor are the men on whom we must place a great deal of responsi­
bility, and the men who will determine a great deal for us all. Look
back in the history of the War for a moment. The significance of the
Department of Labor to this country may be emphasized when we
think of Lloyd George’s work in the Asquith ministry, because, in a
sense, Lloyd George, through those days, was the minister of labor
for England.
We are very fortunate in having to-day with us the Secretary of
Labor of these United States of America. He is with us at a time
when our national policies regarding labor are whipping themselves
into final shape; when we are bringing about the final union of all
the resources of this country that will mean victory for the Allies
beyond question of doubt; and he is here with us to-night to tell us
of the program of the Department of Labor.
I take great pleasure in introducing to you the Secretary of Labor,
the Hon. William B. Wilson.





W A S H IN G T O N , D. C.

When the Continental Congress adopted the Declaration of Inde­
pendence a new principle of Government was proclaimed to the
v orld. It said, “ We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all
men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with
certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and
the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments
are instituted among men, deriving their just power from the con­
sent of the governed.” Out of that declaration has grown the most
perfect democracy that has ever existed on the face of the earth. It
is not absolutely perfect, no one has ever claimed absolute perfection
for it. It is a human institution and partakes of human imperfec­
tions. But for the first time in the history of the world a govern­
ment was instituted that gave to the great mass of the people the
opportunity of working out their own destiny in their own way.
That government has been threatened from abroad. The institutions
built up under it have been menaced by an autocrat, and if I were
to confine to a single sentence my conception of the greatest need of
our country at the present time, I would say that our greatest need
is the spirit of self-sacrifice for the common good—sacrifice of our
pride, sacrifice of our prejudices, sacrifice of our physical comforts,
sacrifice of our lives, if need be—in order that the institutions handed
down to us from our fathers, through which we have been working
out our destiny in our way, may be handed down to our children to
enable them to work out their destiny in their way, unhampered by
the mailed fist of the German autocrat or any other tyrant on earth.
We have entered this War for the purpose of maintaining those in­
stitutions, and there can be no other issue than the winning of the
War; and we must not allow ourselves to be carried away by our pre­
conceived notions or our prejudices into a position that Avill in any
manner interfere with our winning the War.
In all of the great conflicts that have occurred in the past the
methods of conducting war have been such that it was frequently
possible, in fact generally possible, for an invading army to main­
tain itself upon the country through which it was fighting, drawing
only upon the energies of a comparatively small number of people
at home for the purpose of supplying them with munition. That



condition of warfare has been entirety changed and to-day it is esti­
mated that it requires the mental and physical energy of from
6 to 10 people at home to maintain one soldier at the front. And
because of the great necessity for mental and physical energy at
home in the production of material a labor program has become
an absolute necessity for the coordination of our activities in pro­
duction. The Government has been devoting its energies toward the
building up of a labor program. There have been those who have
been impatient because progress has not been made more rapidly
than has yet been demonstrated. Those who take that position fail
to realize that we have not been fighting under an autocracy; we
have been fighting under a democracy. And you can not take the
mind of the American employer or the mind of the American
workingman and mold it as freely and easily as the artist molds
his clay. They think for themselves, and to me it is one of the
gratifying things, one of the things that has demonstrated that we
have been making progress in the years gone by, that no single
individual has been able to take the American mind and mold it to
suit his own fancies. Our Americans think for themselves, and it
has required negotiation, it has required the presentation of the needs
of the country, it has required the presentation of facts in logical
sequence, to convince the American employer and the American
workingman, when previously they have felt their interests diverged.
But in this great crisis, no matter what their individual interests
may be, no matter what their individual influence may be, the in­
terest of the country at large is paramount to the individual opinion
or the individual prejudice.
When we entered the War the first thing that became necessary
for us to do was to convince the American wageworkers of the
great interest they had in the issues of the War. Subtly all over
our country there had been conveyed the idea, there had been pro­
mulgated the thought that this was a capitalists’ war, entered into
for the purpose of enabling the capitalists of our country to exploit
the workers to a greater extent than they had ever been able to
before. You heard that in this community, and in every commu­
nity in the United States it was persistently presented, thrust upon
the minds of the workers. We organized in the Department of
Labor a systematic campaign against that and some of the other
propaganda that was being put forth by our enemy. We pointed out
to the workers that if the purpose of the Government had been to
advance the interests of capitalists of our country and enable them
to gain greater profit, we never would have engaged in the War.
Prior to our entrance into the conflict we were supplying vast
amounts of material of every kind and character to the belligerents
77920°—19------ 11



of Europe. Our manufacturers were securing the highest possible
price for materials they were supplying, and there was no disposi­
tion, and would have been no disposition on the part of the Govern­
ment or on the part of any considerable portion of our people, to
interfere with the profits that were secured out of the needs of other
Governments with which we were not at that time allied. But the
moment we engaged in the conflict ourselves the situation changed.
One of the first powers placed in the hands of the President of the
United States after the declaration of war was the power to regulate
prices of certain commodities, and that power is being extended. In
every measure considered for the regulation of prices there was
carefully excluded from them any reference to the establishment of a
maximum rate for laborers. And that was not all. I f the purpose
had been to enable capitalists to profiteer then there would have been
no increases in the tax on profits, nor on incomes, upon those having
great earnings, nor would there have been an excess-profit tax. The
Department of Labor has been carrying that message to the workers
from one end of the country to the other, and demonstrating to them
that this is not a capitalists’ war, but that this is a war of the
people of tlie United States for the preservation of their institutions
against the aggressions of autocrats in Europe.
Among the other subtle things represented through certain organi­
zations that were in close touch with the Bolshevik element in Iviissia
was the idea that every man is entitled to the full social value that
his labor produces; and if they had ended with that kind of a decla­
ration we might all very well have subscribed to it. I don't know ox
anyone that I have come in contact with who takes exception to the
declaration that every man is entitled to the full sociai value ox
what his labor produces. We may differ as to how we are going
to determine what the full social value is, but the opinion is almost
universal that every man is entitled to the full social value of what
his labor produces. But having laid that down as the basis of their
statement, then they carried their reasoning further, and they said,
“ The only way by which you can secure the full social value of your
labor is to have the workers own all of the means of production and
distribution collectively.” Now, that may be a solution of the prob­
lem. I don’t know. It would certainly be a great experiment at
this time. But they go still further with their philosophy and say
that the way to get the collective ownership of the means of pro­
duction and distribution is to destroy the profits accruing from the
property, that property’s only value comes from the profits that are
accruing from it; and if you destroy the profit, the value of the
property is destroyed, and when that is destroyed then the work­
ers can take it over and operate it collectively for their own use
and benefit. Then the next step in their reasoning is that the



way to destroy the profits is to reduce production. That if you
reduce production the profits must of necessity be eliminated, and
therefore you should reduce production by any process—by strikingon the job, as they say out in the western country—that is, reduc­
ing the amount of production as far as you possibly can reduce it
and retain your job. It is what the English call “ stint ”—putting
sand in the bearings, breaking machines, where possible, driving
spikes into logs and into fruit trees, or any other process that will result
in additional cost to the employer’ or a reduction in the amount of
production. That is one of the philosophies that has been taught
by the Industrial Workers of the World, particularly in our west­
ern country; and part of the labor program of the Department of
Labor has been to combat that kind of a propaganda. And I may
say to you that it is not a difficult thing to combat it when dealing
with men of ordinary intelligence. Most of our people not only are
able to read, but have read some; and all we have had to do in that
connection has been to carry their memory back in history to the
period before we began our modern industrial development, when
everything was done by hand, when the amount of production per
individual was less than anything that would occur from any
system of sabotage they might introduce now; and in those days
there were still profits for tlie employer. The property still was
valuable, but the result was a lower standard of living for those wh«
toiled. And if these people succeeded in carrying their philosophy
into execution, if they succeeded in reducing the amount of produc­
tion, instead of eliminating the profits of the employer, they would
be reducing the standard of living of the wage earners of our coun­
try. Consequently the wage earners are more interested in com­
bating a false’ philosophy of that kind than any other class of our
This, then, was the first step that had to be taken. We had to
bring our people to a correct attitude of mind toward industrial
questions, to bring them to a realization of the fact that even in
normal times, if we had no war, labor and capital have a mutual
interest, not an identical interest—mark the distinction—labor and
capital have a mutual interest, not an identical interest, in secur­
ing the largest possible production with a given amount of labor,
having due regard for the health, the safety, and the opportunity for
recreation and improvement of the workers themselves. If we pro­
duce nothing, there can be nothing to divide. I f we produce a
large amount there is just that much more to divide. The interests
of the employer and employee diverge oidy when it comes to the
distribution of that which has been produced; and if they are wise,
instead of resorting to strikes and lockouts and thereby limiting
production j they will sit down around the council table and work



the problem out oil as nearly correct a mathematical basis as the
circumstances surrounding the industry will permit.
If that be true in normal times, then how much more true it is
during a period of war. We are spending as a government billions
of dollars annually for munitions. The other countries of the world
are spending billions of dollars annually for munitions. And those
billions of dollars represent expenditures for supplies for our Army
and Navy. That means the labor of millions of men in the production
of material that is to be destroyed without giving any physical return
to mankind for it. What we hope to get out of it is the spiritual
return of the maintenance and the betterment of our institutions.
With that tremendous expenditure of material, with the tremendous
expenditure of the energy necessary to produce that material, it
means that but a small number of people can be utilized in the pro­
duction of those things that are necessary for our everyday life.
If we can not have the maximum of production then on the part of
those engaged in the production of those things, the time will come
more speedily, and it wTill come ultimately in any event if we con­
tinue long in this War, when we will be compelled to reduce our stand­
ard of living. And again, the wage workers are interested in main­
taining the highest possible standard of efficiency during the period
of the War. We have been meeting that problem, and I think those
of you who are observers of the trend of events realize that we have
been meeting with a great measure of success in wiping out the
effects of that kind of a propaganda 011 the part of our enemy.
Having provided the methods for meeting the propaganda of the
enemy, it then became necessary for us to turn our attention toward
the adjustment of labor disputes. There has never been a time
since the close of the Civil War, at least since our great industrial
development began, when we have been free from industrial disputes.
We had them in one part of the country or another at all times.
Some industries have gone on for almost a generation without hav­
ing labor disputes; then they had them. Others have had them-more
frequently. But we have had our labor disputes with us at all times
since the conclusion of the Civil War. Those labor disputes have
created prejudices on the part of the employer and on the part of
the worker. It was necessary that these prejudices be eliminated
as far as possible, in order to reduce our labor disputes to a mini­
mum. The first step we took in that direction was to endeavor to
create a labor adjustment board that would be representative of em­
ployers and of employees, and then have it written into all of the con­
tracts that the awards of the adjustment board wTould be binding
upon the contractor and that the workmen who accepted the work
from the contractor wrould be also bound by the agreement to accept
the award of the adjustment board.



The plan fell through because of some minor contentions in connec­
tion with it. Other adjustment boards had come into existence in the
War Department, Navy Department, in the Shipping Board, and in
the transportation s}Tstems of the country. But it became apparent to
those handling the adjustment problems in the Department of Labor
and in the other departments that there should be a centralized
direction, that there should be a common policy emanating from a
common center. The Shipbuilding Labor Adjustment Board would
render a decision establishing certain rates, and certain conditions
of employment for the shipbuilding industry. No sooner was that
rate established and those conditions brought into existence than the
workmen in other industries adjacent immediately set up claims for
similar wages and similar conditions. What was true with regard
to the Shipbuilding Labor Adjustment Board was true in regard to
the cantonment adjustment and other adjustment boards. As a
result of this the President ultimately came to the conclusion that a
general labor policy should be worked out and placed the working out
of that policjr in the hands of the Department of Labor. That was
last January. We have been working upon that policy since that
time and out of the work that we have been doing has grown the
establishment of what has come to be known as the Taft-Walsh Ad­
justment Board. That board was brought into existence by inviting
the Industrial Conference Board, a board composed of 20,000 manu­
facturers and commercial associations, to name five representative
manufacturers, and by inviting the American Fecleration of Labor to
name five representatives of labor. Each of these groups of five
named an additional member, the manufacturers naming Mr. Taft
and the workers naming Mr. Frank P. Walsh. That group of men
came together and worked out an adjustment plan, a method of labor
adjustment that should be imposed only in the event of the work­
men and their employers being unable to come to a mutually satisfactory agreement. We named as the adjustment board the same board
that worked out the plan and that board is now actively engaged in
adjustment problems at Washington. We hope to be able to take
another step toward perfecting the efficiency of the board, and that is
to adopt the suggestion offered a year ago of having written into the
contract a requirement that the employer shall abide by the award
of the board, as shall also the workmen accepting employment, in
every case of dispute where employer and employees are unable to
come to a mutual understanding. But frequently even that will not
work a complete solution of the problem, because we will still be con­
fronted with the question of one set of wages being paid in one place
and another set of wages being paid in another adjacent to it, and the
uneasiness and unrest that result from two separate wage rates for the
same kind of labor existing in immediate contrast with each other. We



have been giving our attention to the question of establishing not only
a minimum wage rate, which we have to a considerable extent done,
but also a maximum wage rate. But that is not quite so easy a
problem as it may seem on the surface, because, after all, wage rates
can not be properly measured in dollars and cents. Wage rates can
be properly measured only in what the dollars and cents will buy;
in other words, the purchasing power; and our tendency has been in
the direction of higher costs of living and with the higher costs of
living there has been 011 the part of workmen a demand and a justiaable demand for higher wages to meet that higher cost of living.
So we have been going around in a spiral upward and upward with­
out anyone securing any benefit. It does not help the workmen, it
does not help the employer, and it does not help the farmer to have
the prices moving continually upward; the cost of living going up,
then the wage rate going up to meet the cost of living, then the cost
of materials going up to the farmer because of the increased cost of
wages; and the cost of living going up and the wages going up and
the cost of materials going up to the farmer, and so 011 around in a
spiral continually upward; and if we can establish a condition where
there will be a limit to the increase in the cost of living and then,
having done that, stabilize our wage rate, we will have accomplished
a great deal toward eliminating the element of dissatisfaction in the
minds of the wage earners in our country. Unrest is always produc­
tive of inefficiency; a dissatisfied workman is not so efficient a work­
man as a satisfied workman.
One of the problems we have had to deal with for years and years
has been the turnover of labor. Our people are still in the migratory
stage, and we have a greater turnover of labor than any other coun­
try in the world that I have any knowledge of. It was nothing un­
usual before the War to find establishments having 200 and 300
per cent turnover per annum; and there have been a few instances,
not many, since the War started where we have had for a month
or six weeks at a time a turnover of a hundred per cent per week.
Now, you can't have efficiency under circumstances of that kind,
and yet few of our people realize that. We are horror-stricken
in this period of war, when we need the full effectiveness of every
man, when we hear of a strike occurring, and we immediately
condemn the leaders of the trades-union movement for permitting a
strike to occur during the period of the War. We are more than
horror-stricken when, spontaneously, without any previous organiza­
tion, a strike occurs in any industry at this time when we need every
particle of energy we possess. Yet the turnover of labor is the
individualistic strike.* The individual, either union or nonunion,
becomes dissatisfied with the conditions existing on the job—it may
be the wages, it may be the housing, it may be shop conditions, it



may be the sanitary or hygienic surroundings or lack of them, or
any one of a hundred other reasons—and his going off the job rep­
resents the individualistic strike. It means loss every time it occurs,
and in the aggregate, with millions upon millions leaving their jobs
during the period of the year, there is more, much more, loss to our
country and our industrial production due to the individualistic
strike, represented in turnover, than to all the trades-union and
spontaneous strikes that occur during the year. And it is one of the
problems that we are turning our attention to.
May I say at this point that I want to congratulate those here who
have graduated into the employment-management service? That is
the one great reason why there is need for employment managers.
We have been paying attention to the development of our chemistry;
we have been paying attention to the development of our mechanical
engineering; we have been paying attention to our method of plan­
ning, routing, and so on ; we have been paying attention to all of these
elements of industry that deal with the inanimate, and we have abso­
lutely lost sight of that most important element of them all—the
living, thinking, sentient human being, without whom there can be
no industry and no machines. And the development of employment*
management is for the purpose of making studies of man as the indi­
vidual and man in the mass; and those of you who have given even
a slight consideration to the subject matter know that the two studies
are quite different. Man as an individual and man in the mass are
two entirely separate psychologies and need separate treatment.
We have needed, by virtue of the great centralization of our war
industries, to develop methods of mobilizing labor. We have estab­
lished machinery for that purpose for the movement of labor from
those places where there is a surplus to those places where there is a
shortage. To do that it has been necessary for us to overcome some
of the prejudices that have existed against the Department from the
time it was created. There were those who believed when the Depart­
ment of Labor was created, and who still believe, that it is a depart­
ment of organized labor. I have no hesitancy in saying to you, as the
head of that Department, the only head that it has thus far had, that
I have been and that I am now a trade-unionist. Just as every great
manufacturer in the country believes in organization, so, too, have I
in the line that I have had to follow believed in organization, and I
have been a trade-unionist. But the Department of Labor has not
been a department of organized labor, but a Department of Labor, as
its name indicates. You who are employers of labor may have
prejudices against union labor. You who are members of organized
labor may have prejudices against the so-called “ open shop.” You
who are nonunion men may have prejudices against these “ closed
shops,” so called; but so far as the Department of Labor is concerned



It can liave no prejudices in the matter. The manufacturer who has
prejudices against organized labor is a citizen of the United Status,
and as a citizen of the United States the Department of Labor can
deal with him. The trades-unionist who is prejudiced against the
open shop is a citizen of the United States, and as a citizen of the
United States the Department of Labor can deal with him; the nonunionist who has prejudices against the closed shop is a citizen of the
United States, and as a citizen of the United States the Department
of Labor can deal with him. In handling the labor dispute existing
in the copper regions of the West we found that prejudice existing—■
the employers’ prejudice against dealing with the union and the
union’s prejudice against the open shop. We did not take the em­
ployer by the nape of the neck and the trades-unionist by the nape of
the neck and bump their heads together and say, “ Here, you must
agree.” What we said was this, “ If you, Mr. Operator, feel that
von can not deal with this representative of the union, have you any
objection to dealing with the United States Government?” And
they said, “ No.” And we said to the union representatives, “ Have
you any objection to dealing with the United States Government? ”
And they said, “ No.” Then we said to the manufacturer, or the
operator, “ Will you make a contract with us, as representative of the
United States Government, along certain lines?” And they said
they would. And we said to the union men, “ Will you make a con­
tract with us, as representative of the Government, along certain
lines ? ” And they said they would. They did not contract with
each other, yet they contracted with the representatives of the United
States Government. The strike was settled, and copper is now being
produced. And the same policy was pursued with regard to the
packing industry. They did not contract with each other, but each
of them contracted with the United States Government.
Now, in the same spirit, we have been approaching the subject of
furnishing supplies of labor. It has been very natural that the pro­
ductive departments of the Government should be anxious to secure —
an ample supply of labor, and, that being anxious, they should go
into the common pool of labor and seek to secure all that they needed,
irrespective of its effect upon others. They felt that the responsi­
bility of making good rested upon them, and, this responsibility
resting upon them, that it was their duty to go into the common sup­
ply of labor and get all that they needed by any methods that were
available to them. The great manufacturers in our country have been
in exactly the same position. They have contracted with our Gov­
ernment to deliver certain material within a certain time, and upon
them has rested the responsibility of delivering these goods; and
they have felt that they must go into this common pool of labor and



get all that they needed for their supply. The result has been a
competition that is deplorable. Let me illustrate. The War Depart­
ment's needs, the needs of other departments as well, required the
bringing of bricklayers from some place in the United States where
there was a surplus into the cities of Norfolk, Washington, and
Baltimore. The Department of Labor having established offices and
getting its report daily of the condition of the labor market, went into
the market wherever there was a surplus of building laborers, and
we brought a supply of bricklayers into those three cities. And then
immediately following our bringing the labor from the Middle West
into these cities there came into the cities I have mentioned agents
of a corporation doing some building for the Government, recruiting
bricklayers to go into the employ of a southern company and work
for the Government down there. We have taken metal workers from
the Middle West, where we found a surplus, out to the Pacific coast
to engage in shipbuilding operations, only to have agents of corpora­
tions having contracts with the Government step in, take the very
workmen we had brought from the Middle West, and bring them back
as far east as Milwaukee to put them to work on Government work
there. With that kind of competition there can be no proper labor
program carried out, and we are rapidly remedying that kind of a
situation. There is a sympathetic consideration of the problem going
on among representatives of the War Department, the Navy Depart­
ment, the Shipping Board, and the Department of Labor. I don’t
think it is going to be very long now before there will be written in
the contract a provision that the contractor on the part of the Gov­
ernment shall not go out, independent of other agencies, advertising
for labor or sending out his private agents to secure it ; but that when
labor is secured for the private employer doing work for the Gov­
ernment or for the Government doing its own work, it shall be
secured through one central agency having a sufficient number of
efficient branches in all parts of the United States.
With the going into war we have been taking, as I have said, large
numbers of our workers and putting them into the trenches or into
the camps. We have been mobilizing other large numbers into in­
dustrial activities in which they have not heretofore been engaged,
and there has been a feeling all over the country that there is a neces­
sity here, or soon will be a necessity, for drawing upon the women
of our country to assist in our industrial pursuits to a very much
larger extent than they have done heretofore. That time may come;
it is not yet here. One of the fallacies that we have had has 1been
that whatever Great Britain has done successfully it is necessary
for us to do. In other words, we purpose to do whatever England
does. And it makes a decided difference, because we have a different



situation liere from the situation existing in England. There tliej^
have a much denser population. They have a much smaller country;
they have very much different customs from our customs here. Some
eight years ago I was over in England, and I was looking into some
of the industrial establishments at that time; and I found women
working out in the pitheads dumping coal out of the mine cars onto
cleaning tables. I found women working at the cleaning tables them­
selves. I found women working in the brickyards, wheeling bricks
away from the molds, and piling them in the kilns, and then, while
the kilns were still hot after the bricks had been burned, removing
them and wheeling them out into the yard. In the neighborhood of
Sheffield, England, I saw women with forges and anvils in their
kitchens, so that they might utilize their spare time in making chains.
We have never had that kind of a condition in the United States,
and if I have my way, unless it comes to an absolutely last emer­
gency, necessary for the defeat of the Kaiser, we never will have that
condition in this country. And,yet it may be necessary to utilize
the labor of our womenfolk, and if we are to utilize the labor of our
womenfolk, then we should have an agency established that will give
an intelligent study to the subject, so that we can make a proper selec­
tion of the kinds of industry that our women are going to engage in,
because our women are the mothers of the future generation; our
women have the burden of rearing the population upon which our
future civilization depends; and we need an organization, composed
principally of women, that will give intelligent study to the matter
from a personal knowledge of the physical energy and the physical
weakness of women to aid us in utilizing the labor of women to the
greatest advantage and with the least detriment to their physical and
mental development.
There are a good many phases to the program wTe are working out,
but I will not take time now to go into any further detailed descrip­
tion of the general program we are endeavoring to carry out in the
United States. We are endeavoring to carry out a unified program
that recognizes every legitimate element in the United States which
is engaged in our industry—the employer and the employee, the
employer who recognizes union labor, the employer who does not
recognize union labor, the workman who is a union workman, and
the workman who is not a union worker. We have about 85,000,000
of our people who are engaged in gainful occupations. Of that
number there are approximately 13,000,000 who are engaged in oc­
cupations that lend themselves to trade-unionism. Of the 13,000,000
there are about 4,000,000 who are members of unions, and about
9,000,000 who are not members of unions. Of the 9,000,000 there are
many, to my own personal knowledge, who believe in unions. We
need the labor of all of these people; and we need every energy that



the Labor Department can put forth by which we can secure the
highest standard of efficiency. The great spirit of cooperation will
be put forth to the end that our Army will be supplied, with all
that it needs and we will be able to spare more men to increase our
fighting forces at the front.
The Chairman. We have upon the program for to-night one other
speaker who comes to us with a knowledge and a training that
makes the message he has to give us of \ery great importance. The
next address will deal with the educational aspect of our national
labor policy. I take great pleasure in introducting to you Mr. C. A.
Prosser, of the Federal Board for Vocational Education.














P O L IC Y .

W A S H IN G T O N , D. C.

I have watched with great interest during the last few years
the efforts made in organizing the Employment Managers’ Asso­
ciation. The association is rising now into the dignity of a pro­
fession, because of increasing numbers, because of the solidarity
of action and the spirit of cooperation, because of the development
of at least a beginning of the ethics of conduct in relation to each
other, particularly where managers are associated in local communi­
ties, and because, as in the case of all other professions, you are now
establishing training schools for the training of employment man­
agers and have begun out of these local associations to organize this
Xational Employment Managers’ Association.
Now, the employment manager, in my opinion, is, both from the
standpoint of the operation of the plant and from the standpoint
of the problem we are sure to have presented to us at the conclusion
of this War, to be a figure of ever-increasing importance. The time
will come, in my opinion, when no man will be hired in the shop
without the action of the employment management, and when 110
man will be discharged from the shop without consultation with the
employment management. I believe the two will go together, that
the time will come when the man who has secured the worker will
pass in review upon the trouble that may have led for the request
for his discharge, when he will be allowed the opportunity to adjust
that man to some other department of the shop, and when the writ of
discharge will not be written until the last possible effort has been
made to adjust that man to some employment within the shop at
which he can work successfully and efficiently.
Xow, I take it, Mr. Employment Manager, that any successful
scheme of hiring, training, knowing, and firing men, has within it
all of these factors: There must at the outset be an intelligent, suc­
cessful scheme of selecting the man. There must be arranged some
proper method of adjusting the new workman efficiently and sympa­
thetically to the demands of the first job. There must be some sys­
tem established by which, after training, he may be given an op­
portunity to realize all there is in him for this and all the other jobs
in the line in which he is capable. There will be the necessity of
adopting any method by which the result of continued training and
17 2



earnest effort will be recognized in better wavs and by better posi­
tions than it has been in the past; and along with that a system
of evaluating the man in terms of wage satisfactory to the work­
men themselves. And, beyond that, opening up wide before the
man a vista of hope for the future; and a necessity for cooperation
within the plant which will earn for the firm the loyalty of the men
from the outset.
Now, it may not be possible for the employment manager to be
the chief figure in all of that work, but certainly he must be con­
nected in some way with every one of these steps. We can not con­
fine him to hiring the men and let him have nothing to do with
all the other steps of conservation within the plant without cutting
him off at the point where always he must rest under the burden
and mistakes of errors that follow. If he tries to hire he finds the
man prejudiced because of the reputation of the shop. If he hires
the man, he should hire him with some sort of understanding of
the career and processes of treatment which he will go through in
the shop. So it seems to me that the employment manager is vital
in every one of these steps. But the one I want to talk about is the
step of training—training a man on the job. I want to call your
attention to this situation very briefly.
I don’t know how many men are in training in the United States,
though there must be more than half a million being trained in the
corporation schools and under special schemes established by manu­
facturers here and there throughout the country, under the special
schemes set up by the Army for training its own warriors and by
the Navy for its employees, by the shipyards for their employees,
and by the Federal Board for the training of conscripted men in
evening classes back home to take positions in mechanical and tech­
nical processes in the Army; and coupled with these, in the constantly
increasing number of evening and part-time classes and day classes
throughout this countiy. When the report of the Federal commission
was written the statement was made that at that time there was less
industrial and trade training being carried on in the United States
than in the city of Munich alone in Germany. That can not be
said to-day. Now, this is the point: We are doing those things
to-day because we are pinched, because we are threatened, because
we are facing an emergency. I have repeatedly said in public that
I did not believe the American manufacturer would “ get down to
brass tacks ” with regard to the problem of industry and trade edu­
cation so as to give it something else besides mere surface attention
unless he was pinched in his plans and realized that the men he was
securing were not adaptable to the new conditions; until he found
our system of high specialization of labor to minute processes would
put him in a position, at a time of great crisis, of not being able to



do his work, because he did not have the men, and because in the
years preceding he had killed the goose that laid the golden egg.
It is enough to make one weep to know the kind of young men
between the ages of 21 and 31 who have gone to War, not because
of their physical manhood, their courage, or their willingness to die.
but because of their lack of mechanical and technical knowledge of
things that every boy in Germany had when he went to the front.
This is a War of mechanism and we are not ready, partly, because
of our failure to train our own people in the years past. And if we
don't learn the lesson now, when will we learn it?
Now, you employment managers are going to face just exactly
that problem in the shop where you select men. What are you going
to do about it? Establish your own schools. I know of a Federal
fund that is available and I want to tell you one or two things
about it. The National Government passed the Smith-Hayes Act a
year ago. Under that act $500,000 was given for the establishment
of schools for industrial and trade education by a special method
of apportionment that became operative in the year beginning July
1 , 1917. By the method of apportionment provided in this law
$500,000 becomes available for instruction in trades and industries,
such sum of $500,000 to be increased at the rate of $250,000 each
year until 1925, when a further increase of $500,000 becomes avail­
able for the two succeeding years, after which the annual appropri­
ation for such purpose shall be $3,000,000. That money is to be
spent for the salaries of teachers of trades and industrial work to
meet the necessities of the country; and every dollar of it must be
matched by another dollar spent by the State or local community, or
both of them together. So you see that the fund will amount to a
total of $0,000,000 in 1921 and 1925. That fund is distributed
among the States in the proportion of their urban population, mean­
ing by that those people who live in cities and towns of more than
2,000 inhabitants. The result is that the great industrial States have
the money, and the agricultural and small States have not; that
being compensated for by the larger amount which they have used
for agricultural education, a similar amount being given for agri­
cultural education.
Now, the law7 goes on to provide that one-third of the money—
that is, $160,000—must be spent for part-time education, or not spent
at all. Now. the trouble is that in this time of war the program of
compulsory part-time education, which I believe is coming, because
1 believe that this Government, to save itself, will ultimately under­
take the conservation of every boy who works, until the age of 2 1 ,
rising from 16, 17, and 18, the only limit being what period is re­
quired to save him for himself and for the country. That can not
be done at the present time, so we are back on the voluntary basis,



largely dependent upon the mercy, the intelligence, the foresight,
and the vision of the employer as to whether or not he wants to
make now the investment that will come back to him in deferred pay­
ments in the future, because of the training he is going to give to his
young people at the present time. That money is not being spent b}r
the State in any great amount, partly, I believe, because many em­
ployers, many employment managers, do not know of its existence.
I want to call your attention to this thing for one reason because
capital and labor, employers and tradcs-unicns, can and are getting
together on at least four things. The first is compensation; the second
is safety regulation: the third is part-time or evening-school in­
struction for men who are already employed in shops; and the fourth
is the vocational rehabilitation of the disabled soldier, restoring him
when he comes back from the War, so far as training will, to take up
and follow regular industrial employment. You can get that sort of
support in your community. Are you interested? Do you want
some of that money spent in connection with your plant? Let me
tell you some of the things }tou can do to get it:
First, see the superintendent of schools in the community in which
your plant is located and call his attention to the fact that the
school system in the community and the educational fund owe just
as much obligation to the young fellow who has gone out into in­
dustry as to the boy and girl who are still in school, and to men
who have been injured in war service, and obtain the appropriation to
match this Federal appropriation for carrying on this work.
And, next, a schoolmaster can not do this job. The first thing we
want to do is to bring into this work the practical man along this
line and put him in charge of the “ part-time” education work.
And the third thing is that the thing to be done shall be done by
the men experienced in the trades and industries, not manual training
teachers, but men who can apply the mathematics and drawing and
the trades science to the requirements of that trade.
Next, go to your employer and call his attention to the fact that
we are going to have a labor shortage of the right kind of people;
and tell him that if he wants new leaders with breadth of training
and adaptability he must lay his foundations deep at the present time.
I f he says it is difficult tell him “ Yes, but you can measure this diffi­
culty whereas you can’t measure the tremendous difficulty and losses
that arise from your failure to have constantly at hand an adequate
and capable labor supply for doing your work.” If he refers you to
the foreman of the department, who says, “ We can’t do it, because it
will make some machines idle, because it will cost for power,” tell
him, “ You can’t figure that insensate thing you lose in poor leader­
ship and workmanship, and lack of hope and vision on the part of
those young chaps in your plant.” There is not an employment man-



ager in this room who can not use that part-time educational fund
111 his factory. Now, if he wants it, let him go for it in the same way
he goes for any other concession under the city government. And
the other idea is that when the smoke of all this War is cleared away
we will find this world turned almost upside down. I know this is
the age of the common man; I know that, after all, the outstanding
characteristic of modern democracy is the push upward of the com­
mon man from the bottom. He is going to be heard more in in­
dustry than ever before; and that brings us at once to the difficulty
between the organized worker and his employer and the unorganized
worker and his employer; and the employment manager will, I
believe, be the center of that problem, and he may find himself com­
pelled to face the question whether he is a timesaver for his em­
ployer or a constructive agent in democracy, trying to save it by
bringing these people together not upon the basis of the employers’
or employees’ interests but in the best interests of all. Victor Hugo
has it when he says: a The workman would be a leader of fraternity
and equality, and there would be green branches upon the threshold.”
That means we all are hewers of wood and drawers of water in a pro­
fession of untold opportunities. I would hate to pass out into the be­
yond before that conflict is over without being able to see some of the
problems that will arise, and some of the solutions and some of the"
new dreams that are to be dreamed. When you men as managers
think about these pioneer days and the early struggle to bring for­
ward the idea that there was such a position, and that it wTas alto­
gether worth while, you might whisper to yourself some of the words
from Kipling’s poem on the The Palace, which runs about like this:
When I was a King and a Mason, a Master proven and skilled,
I cleared me ground for a Palace such as a King should build.
1 decreed and dug down to my levels. Presently, under the silt,
I came on the wreck of a Palace such as a King had built.
There was no worth in the fashion, there was no wit in the plan—Hither and thither, aimless, the ruined footings ran—•
Masonry, brute, mishandled, but graven on every stone:
“ After me cometh a Builder. Tell him, I, too, have known.”
Swift to my use in my trenches, where my well-planned groundworks grew,
I tumbled his quoins and his ashlars, and cut and reset them anew.
Lime I milled of his. marbles; burned it, slaked it, and spread;
Taking and leaving at pleasure the gift of the humble dead.
Yet I despised not nor gloried; yet, as we wrenched them apart,
I read in the razed foundations the heart of that builder’s heart.
As he had risen and pleaded, so did I understand
The form of the dream he had followed in the face of the thing he had planned.



When I was a King and a Mason—in tlie open noon of my pride,
They sent me a Word from the Darkness—they whispered and called me aside.
They said : “ The end is forbidden.” They said : “ Thy use is fulfilled.
“ Thy Palace shall stand as that other’s—the spoil of a King who shall build.”
I called my men from my trenches, my quarries, my wharves, and my shears.
All I had wrought I abandoned to the faith of the faithless years.
Only I cut 011 the timbers— only I carved on the stone:
After me cometh a Builder. Tell him, I, too, have known!

[Session adjourned.]

S A T U R D A Y , M A Y 11— M O R N IN G SESSION .
C H A IR M A N : R A L P H

G. W E L L S, A S S IS T A N T


M A N A G E R , E. I . DU


[The meeting was called to order at the Powers Hotel at 10 a. 111.
by the chairman.]
[The chairman announced for Dr. Meeker that copies of the pro­
ceedings, when printed by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, would be
mailed to every one registered at the convention, and that the June
M onthly R eview containing an account of the conference would also
be sent. It was stated that the proceedings would include everything
except unnecessary and irrelevant remarks, which would be omitted
for the sake of condensation.]
[The chairman then introduced Mr. Davis, of the New York Retail
Dry Goods Stores’ Association.]
Mr. D avis of the Retail Dry Goods Stores’ Association of New
York. I have attended a great many other conventions of an entirely
different description. It seems to me that in view of the fact, as I
understand it, this organization is more or less in its infancy—if I
am wrong, correct me—it would be a good thing if to the names that
are added in here there was added the names of the concerns, they
represent, the names of concerns that have thought it worth while to
send their men to attend meetings of this kind. And I would like to
suggest that it would be a very good plan for the commissioner, or
whoever is responsible for this Bulletin, to provide in or on a separate
sheet the list of the names of the delegates present at this convention,
together with the names of the concerns they represent. Some of
these we might like to get in touch with whose addresses we might
have difficulty in finding.
One other suggestion. I don't want to be misunderstood about this.
The other day a showing of hands was requested of those men inter­
ested in mercantile lines. I believe there were two people, myself on
the main floor, and some one in the balcony; we had a discussion later.
I realize that the organization is in its infancy, and can not be ex­
pected to do everything at once, but would it not be a wise thiiig in
considering the arrangements for another year to attempt to get some



larger representation from branches other than purely factory, and
so-called industrial lines ? You see what I am driving at. I do know
that we have our own problem and I believe some provision could be
made for such an organization as The Retail Dry Goods Stores’ Asso­
ciation of New York, the City National Bank of New York, the
Guaranty Trust Co., and other institutions of a similar character.
They all have their problem, and are doing splendid work.
The C hairm an . I think those are two valuable suggestions. I
don’t know whether Dr. Meeker would like to print that list of
names, but I would make this suggestion: That with the permission
of those present the chair will order that the new executive com­
mittee arrange to have printed and distributed a list of those who
have registered at this convention. We will need it if this organi­
zation goes through. It would serve, as you all know, as an ex­
cellent inclosure to go with the letter. It might be put in the June
M onthly R eview . Dr. Meeker, we would be very glad to have you
publish that also, if it would not crowd the proceedings too much.
Dr. M eeker. Six hundred names is a mere bagatelle; I wish there
were more. One point I want to present to the conference. I want
to be sure that there is no misunderstanding about this. I think
that I am not stating any state secret when I say that this organiza­
tion, or whatever it is—this thing in process of becoming an organi­
zation, let me say—has always side-stepped when it came to a question
of publishing the names of the firms represented. I never could quite
understand that. I did not see what there wTas to be side-stepped,
myself; but I want 3^011 to be perfectly sure that you want the list of
firms and representatives published. I am very willing to make the
attempt to publish it in the June M onthly R eview . But if you are
going to send out this list, I don’t see that it will be of any particular
value to do that, but in the published proceedings decidedly the list of
delegates and the firms represented should be included as an essential
part of the proceedings.
[It was moved and seconded that the names of the delegates and
the firms they represented be published in the proceedings. (See
Appendix B.) In the discussion that followed the statement was
made that in the Boston association a list 01 the delegates and the
firms represented had been of great value in stimulating interest in
the association, because the majority of firms, when they sent repre­
sentatives to conventions or a meeting of this character, wanted to be
sure that they were going to meet other people who had the same
[The motion wTas carried.]
The C hairm an . The suggestion of the gentleman regarding a
division at the next conference for commercial and mercantile



establishments is a very good one. The lack of such a division has
been one of the weaknesses of some of our local associations. 1
have heard the criticism before from department store and bank men
that they came to our meetings and all they heard was a discussion
of problems relating to industry and production. I will pass the
suggestion on to the new committee, and ask that in arranging
for the convention next year a definite meeting early in the convention
be arranged for those who are interested in problems of that sort.
Mr. T yler. May I suggest that manufacturers, especially those em­
ploying large clerical forces, are in a way interested in the same
problem ? Most of our discussions here concern the man in the shop.
That is a part of the problem which the commercial man is trying to
get information on. Would it be wise to broaden the scope of this
convention and make it include salesmanship and commercial inter­
ests as well as industrial interests?
The C h airm an . Can we take care of it by passing on to the com­
mittee the matter of providing for group meetings? Let us have a
motion which will cover the entire field and insure that the program
committee realize that next year we want to go not only into the
problems of industry and mercantile establishments, but into those of
any other institutions: The clerical force, the sales force, and perhaps
the problems of contractor, which are quite different from the prob­
lems of industry. The turnover of contracting firms is much heavier,
and they have a much different problem from those operating along
industrial lines.
[The motion suggested was made, seconded, and carried.]
Capt. F isher. Maj. Mock, of the Surgeon General’s Office, who is
to talk on rehabilitation of disabled soldiers, has a series of motion
pictures which he is showing in connection with this topic, and ar­
rangements have been made for the exhibition of these pictures at
the Strand Theater, opposite the chamber of commerce, beginning at
1 1 o’clock.
[It was moved, seconded, and carried that the session adjourn at
quarter to eleven. It was suggested by Capt. Fisher that the dele­
gates should reconvene at 12 o’clock and work on until 1.30 p. m.]
The C hairm an . We will now have the report of the committee on
organization, and then if there is essential discussion on it, it may be
necessary to postpone the discussion in order to complete the organ­
ization before we adjourn. I think it will be necessary to get through
with this, but we don’t want to railroad it through. I am going
to read it through and then ask you to act upon it in the usual wa'y.
The vote of the committee was that the national association should
be informed along the following lines:

O u t l in e



O r g a n iz a t io n .

I. N A M E .

Tlie name of this organization shall be the National Association of Employ­
ment Managers.
II. o b j e c t s .

The objects of this association shall b e :
1. To promote and foster interest in and study of employment problems
throughout the country.
2. To stimulate the growth of local employment managers’ associations in
industrial and commercial centers.
3. To encourage the installation and development of functionalized employ­
ment departments in public and private establishments.
4. To act as a clearing house for better methods for handling problems of em­
0. To work with governmental agencies to bring about closer cooperation
concerning employment problems.



M E M B E R S H IP .

Membership of this organization shall consist of the following classes:
A. Group members.—Local employment managers’ associations approved by
the executive committee and conforming to the constitution and by-laws, who
shall appoint a member as their representative in this association.
B. Sustaining members.—Employers who may designate an executive in
charge of employment as their representative in this association and who are
approved by the executive committee.
C. A ssociate members. — Individuals interested in the object of this associa­
tion who are not connected with employers eligible for membership under
Class B.

A. Group membership. —The yearly dues shall be fixed by the executive, com­
mittee of this association after consultation with group members.
B. Sustaining membership.—Yearly dues shall be $100.
C. Associate membership.—Yearly dues shall be $10.

1. There shall be an executive committee elected at the annual convention
made up of six members chosen from and by the group members and three
chosen from and by the official representatives of the sustaining members, to
serve for the period of one year or until their successors have qualified.
2. The executive committee shall choose a president, vice president, secre­
tary, and treasurer from among its own number.
3. The executive committee for the first year shall be chosen from and by the
members of the organization committee submitting this report. The executive
committee so elected shall complete the constitution and by-laws to conform
wit^h.thls outline of organization.
4. The officers shall perform all duties usually pertaining to such offices.



Mr. W in an s, chairman of the committee on organization. This
provision [as to clues] was worded in this manner because it was
felt that no one here had the authority to commit their local associa­
tion to higher or other dues than those which now exist, and it will be
a matter which will be adjusted by the local committee in connec­
tion with local groups.
The C h airm an . That, gentlemen, is in substance the decision of
the committee. The suggestion is, you understand, that if this
meets with your approval, that the present organization committee
will proceed at once to the carrying out of the outlines of this con­
stitution, and the preparation of a constitution and by-laws which
conform to this; and, of course, will provide means whereby that con­
stitution can be amended so that if there should be anything not satis­
factory it can be changed at the next convention.
The Chair awaits discussion or a motion as to our action.
[The question was asked whether a person who was an assistant
of an employment manager would be eligible to associate member­
ship, since, according to the outline of organization, it would seem
that such a person would not be so eligible.]
The C hairm an . He would not be. It would be possible for him
to be a member of the local association. The intention of this is to
encourage and foster, as far as possible, the growth of local associa­
tions, because there is where the person gets contact with other em­
ployment managers. But that assistant would have a perfect right
to attend conventions.
[At this point in the discussion the convention adjourned to the
Strand Theater, where Maj. Harry E. Mock, of the U. S. Surgeon
General’s office, gave an illustrated address, and Charles H. Winslow,
of the Federal Board for Vocational Education, spoke. To avoid dis­
turbing the continuit}^ of the discussion on the organization of the
proposed National Association Mr. Winslow's speech is given at the
end of the proceedings of this session (see pp. — ). Maj. Mock’s
address is omitted, as it was not possible to obtain the manuscript.
The meeting reconvened in the Powers Hotel at 12 o'clock.]
The C hairm an . I s it the wish of the convention that we proceed
with the discussion of the articles of organization as read this morn­
ing, or shall we have tlie report of the committee 011 turnover ? The
articles of organization should be completed in time for the organi­
zation committee to report again this afternoon, and if it is agree­
able to the convention I would like to suggest that we ought to make
some headway 011 the articles of organization. The organization com­
mittee that met last night consisted of the following members of



the national committee, which is the only official organization

Dr. E. B. Gowin, of the New York University School of Commerce. Accounts,
and Finance, New York City.
Ralph G. Wells, of the E. I. Du Pont d« Nemours & Co., Wilmington, Del.
Elmer F. Harris, o f the Mesta Machine Co., Pittsburgh, Pa.
E. H. Fish, o f the Norton Co., Worcester, Mass.
H. G. Kobick, of the Commonwealth Edison Co., Chicago, 111.
AY. H. Winans, of the National Carbon Co., Cleveland, Ohio.
Raymond C. Booth, of the Rochester Chamber of Commerce, Rochester, N. Y.
Mark M. Jones, of Thomas A. Edison (In c.), West Orange, N. J.
G. P. Berner, of the National Aniline & Chemical Co. (In c.), Buffalo, N. Y.
Carl J. Parker, of the Maryland Shipbuilding Corporation, Baltimore, Md.
George B. Meniam, of Brown-Lipe-Chapin Co., Syracuse, N. Y.
C. W. Storke, of the Employers’ Association, Auburn, N. Y.
W. R. Kitson, of the Solvay Process Co,, Detroit, Mich,
T. L. Weed, of the Stanley Works, New Britain, Conn.
George H. Stone, of the Locomobile Co. of America, Bridgeport, Conn.
S. R. Rectanus, of the American Rolling Mill Co., Middletown, Ohio.
W. A. Grieves, of the Jeffrey Manufacturing Co., Columbus, Ohio.
Mrs. Jane C, Williams, o f the Plimpton Press, Norwood, Mass.
Arthur F. Jones, of the Jersey City Chamber of Commerce, Jersey City, N. J.
Capt. Boyd Fisher, Ordnance Reserve Corps, Washington, D. C.
A. A. Doucet, of'the Laclede-Christy Clay Products Co., St. Louis, Mo.
P. T. Johnson, Seattle, Wash.

I might explain that this plan was necessarily a compromise in
some ways. We had this proposition: None of the delegates here
were authorized to commit their association to contribute a definite
sum of money for membership. It was the feeling of that committee
that this organization should now formulate a definite plan, and
should have a constitution with which it could do constructive
work—which means the providing of*a permanent staff to do the
work. And. for that reason, it was felt that finances were necessary;
but. in assigning the dues for the local associations, we left that
open for the executive committee to decide upon as it says: “ The
yearly dues shall be fixed by the executive committee of this asso­
ciation after consultation with group members,” because it seemed
inadvisable to set any fixed method of doing that until the local as­
sociations could be consulted and their official sanction secured for
some definite plan of assessment. With that explanation, I would
like to throw the matter open for discussion.
The statement was made, with regard to the provision for annual
dues of $100 for “ sustaining membership,” “ that it was assumed
that there were a number of firms which would be glad to contribute
because of their interest in the work.”



The C h airm an . I f the points of this outline, with such other
suggestions as may be offered, meet with the approval of the conven­
tion, it will be necessary to formulate a definite document to serve as
a constitution and by-laws, which can be changed in any convention.
I may say it is not the desire of the old committee to perpetuate itself
in any way; but it was decided at the meeting last night that that
was an existing organization through which we could easily work,
and there are several members of the old committee who will not be
members of the national committee this year. So that I don’t think
there should be any fear that the national committee is trying to per­
petuate itself.
[In the discussion on the outline of organization the question was
asked with regard to section B of the article on membership, pro­
viding for individual membership, whether the persons designated
in that provision are to be members of a local association or not;
that is, it leaves it open in the outline of organization that any firm
can come in as a sustaining member whether a member of a local
association or not.]
The C hairm an . It was felt that probably the local association
would be a member. The matter was left open because we felt that
there wyere a great many firms in local associations who were suffi­
ciently loyal to be willing to contribute $100.
[It was suggested that a provision be made that firms may send
any number of representatives to the annual convention, provided
the privilege of voting be restricted to the official representative.]
The C hairm an . I suggest that this convention recommend that
there be a provision in the by-laws which will permit “ sustaining ”
firms to send as many additional representatives to the convention as
they wish, but who are not to vote on matters of business or on elec­
tion of officers.
[The motion was made, seconded, and carried!]
The C h airm an . That provision w7ill then be inserted. Is there
further suggestion?
D elegate. I f I understand the first clause correctly, it spoke of
employment managers, but made no reference to representatives with
experience in employment departments who might like to join the
The C hairm an . Y ou mean under Group “ B ; ” a sustaining firm?
D elegate. It was worded aan executive in charge of employment*”
We thought that would meet the condition, because, if they don’t have
an Employment Manager, there is probably some one there who is in


charge of-whatever employment managing they may be doing.
not have it a representative ?



The C h airm an . Because it was felt we wanted the man directly
in charge. The general manager would be an executive in charge;
so would the vice-president of the company, or the president. We
did not interpret this as meaning that it applied only to the fellow
doing the actual hiring, but some executive under whose supervision
employment 'work was being done. l3oes that explain?
D elegate. Yes, sir.

Mr. W in a x s . It would perhaps be better to pass on this by sec­
[It was so moved and seconded. The motion was carried.]
|The first section was moved for adoption. The motion was sec­
onded, and carried.]
[Section II was moved for adoption. The motion was seconded.]
D elegate. I would like to suggest three or four word changes in
that. We are interested in more than employment problems. We
are particularly interested in human management problems.

The C hairm an . Shall we say, “ the study of problems of human
management” ? Or, may we say, in “ the study of employment, per­
sonnel, and human relations problems ” ?
D elegate. Let me suggest 64industrial relations.”

The C hairm an . We thought “ industrial ” was too broad.
[The motion was made, seconded, and carried that the first clause
of the outline of organization be changed to read 44in the study of
employment, personnel, and human relations problems.” ]
- D elegate. In regard to No. 3, 44the installation and development
of functionalized employment departments,” we might disagree upon
the meaning of 44functionalized employment departments.” Does
that include the fire brigade? Should we use the terminology as in
the first clause?

The C h airm an . Suppose wre say “ employment and service depart­
[It was so moved, seconded, and carried.]
A lexander F leisher, superintendent Welfare Division, Metro­
politan Life Insurance Co., New York City. I hate to quibble this
way, but on account of the organization of my company, Section
III B automatically rules out some members of the company who
might Otherwise be eligible to membership in this association. My
company has a committee of a board of directors, which is in charge
of all health and service problems, so the only person eligible would



problem s



in d iv id u a l .

be tlie chairman of that committee. So, I, myself, am not eligible
for membership.
D elegate. Who will be the person to determine what are “ better
methods for handling problems of employment” ? I think we might
improve the word “ better.”
The C hairm an . The point is well taken. Is there any other word ?
Dr. M eeker. What is the object of the association if it is not to
“ better” management of labor problems?
[It was moved and seconded that the word “ better ” be changed.
On being put, the motion was lost.]
The C h airm an . We will leave the word “ better” there. Let us
have a vote on the entire “ object.”
[It was moved, seconded, and carried that Section II, with the
exception of the changes noted, be adopted.]
[Clause “ A,” “ group members,” of Section III, was moved for
adoption, seconded, and carried.]
[Clause “ B ” of Section III as to “ sustaining members” was
moved for adoption, seconded, and carried.]
[Clause “ C ” of Section III as to “ associate members ” was
moved for adoption, seconded, and carried.]
[It was moved, seconded, and carried that a provision be added
to Clause A, of the section on membership, that the local associa­
tions may send as many of their members to attend the conven­
tion as they may desire, but that there shall not be given any addi­
tional vote on business matters.]
D elegate. I s there any provision made for the man having no
local association available, and whose firm does not choose to become
a member of the association as a firm? I f he wants to, can the
individual be a member?

The C hairm an . That matter was discussed. The feeling was that
if we provided any means whereby the individual connected with a
firm could come in on a different basis from that which his firm could
come in on, there would be firms which would take advantage of that.
It was also felt that the purpose of this convention was to encourage
local associations, and that the dues of the local associations were so
small that anyone could belong. I know that in NewTEngland and
New York there are men who travel a hundred miles or more to
attend meetings of these associations. And, furthermore, by not hav­
ing a provision for these individuals it would stimulate them to form
a group in their own localit}7.
D elegate. Take a plant we have in southeastern Kentucky.
The C h airm an . What is your nearest local organization?



D e l e g a t e . We are the o n ly firm there.
Mr. W in a n s . May not this be suggested? So far as I know there is
nothing to designate the size of a local association. I might say there
is no intention to exclude anyone from the convention.
D e l e g a t e . What about persons who do not wish to become asso­
ciated with a local association ? Some firms do not join any local asso­
The C h a ir m a n . Under the provisions, as read, any firm, whether
or not a member of a local association, may become a sustaining
member. Any firm, under the action w e have taken this morning, is
allowed to select one official representative, but may send as many as
it wishes; but such additional delegates can not vote.
D e le g a t e . Suppose a man who is in charge of employment is not
a member of this association.
The C h a ir m a n . There is no provision whereby a man could be
taken care of unless he himself might want to pay the $100. This is
a point we ought to decide. There are a number of concerns who
have not }Tet seen the light.
D e le g a t e . I f you are following the policy of allowing men to come
here and take part in the discussion, whether or not they are mem­
bers, that will cover the point whether their firms belong or not.
The C h a ir m a n . There has never been any suggestion that anyone
should be excluded from the convention. The sustaining member­
ship practically carries with it no other privilege than representation
on the executive committee and the privilege of paving $100.
D e le g a t e . There is no objection to a firm’s paying the $100 and
appointing an individual, who would go in as an individual, even
though that firm does not desire to take out an associate membership ?
The C h a ir m a n . I don’t think so. Those things can usually be
fixed. I know a number of local associations that have had to meet
that. I would suggest that the executive committee, in drawing up
the constitution, without changing the definite policy in any way,
so word it that it will be understood that the privileges do not include
the voting privilege.
D e le g a t e . I want to make a remark about the membership.
As I understand it, the associations are allowed to send one repre­
sentative. There is nothing said about the size of the association.
I was wondering if it was necessary—I am not proposing it—to give
any different weight as to the vote of a representative. One repre­
sentative-might represent 70,000 workmen, another one 500. Is there
any difference in the weight of the vote of these delegates?
The C h a ir m a n . That matter wTas discussed in committee and it
was decided that what we wanted wTas the viewpoint of the localities,



but that if we gave voting power according to the number of
employees, certain large centers would dominate the situation, and
that it was of greater value to have an expression representative of
the entire country rather than of a few large industrial groups.
D elegate. That is the point I want to bring out.
The C h airm an . The section for consideration is now Section IV,
dues; group membership. As explained before, we felt no one had
sufficient definite authority to pledge a group to a larger sum; and
it was better that the delegates have a chance to consult with their
group, and that the matter be taken up with the executive committee.
.[It was moved that Section IV, relating to dues, and the three
clauses thereunder be amended by striking out the three clauses and
substituting for each clause the provision that the dues of this
organization shall be fixed by the executive committee of the asso­
ciation after a consultation with group members.]
The C hairm an . Before that question is put, I would like to ask,
do we go back to our firms and local associations with a clearer idea
of what the job before us is? Now this outline of organization in­
dicates what we really have in mind, and if the thing is left to the
executive committee it is up to them to spread the information, to
get the report back on an intelligent basis. That would need some
work; but starting out 011 this basis you will really get quicker
results. Is there, further discussion ?
D elegate. That raises the point of the whole thing. What is
the machinery, what are the actual operations in fulfillment o f the
purpose of this organization, and what are the dues going to for­
ward? Now, as to the purpose of the organization, you can conduct
a clearing house that is actual or potential; and in your consider­
ation of all these purposes, you can have machinery or not. On the
other hand, it seems to me that when you begin to talk about dues,
you must define more accurately what it is all about, what the thing
is to accomplish.

Mr. W in an s . As we looked the situation over it appeared that
a very capable man should be secured as executive secretary, who
should be put on the job as early as possible, probably at Washing­
ton, to confer with Government officials, and work with the depart­
ments there, to give to us in our local groups a real, established 11a-,
tional association. Next year we may be able to get it done by the
annual convention. It was hoped by those who were talking over the
matter last night that that may be possible during the next year.
You will have to have a man, office help, traveling expense account,,
printing, bills to be paid, and that .sort of thing. The committee
figured roughly that $20,000, but probably not much less than that,



would cover the expenses. The committee, so far as I know, does not
even know whether such a man can be found. The whole thing must
be worked out, if this convention decides to put an executive com­
mittee on the job with these purposes to work out.
D elegate. What does that fellow do ?
Mr. W inans. I confess I don’t know; but we will talk about it
anyway. The. job he Avill have to do at the outset, of course, is to
find out wThat the local associations want; what the employment men
in localities without an association want; what should be done; talk
to the people in Washington to find out what they want; try to help
put over a national labor policy and work out a national association
which will help to gain that result. That is all I can say; But it
seems to me it will take money to do it; I don't know how it can be
done without a man’s traveling expenses, and that means money.
Mr. D oucet. I suggest that Wells tell us something about the
duties of a managing secretary of an association. He is more famil­
iar with them than any of us.
The C h airm an . I can only repeat the things said last night. As
1 understand it, the intention of this organization is to form a more
compact group through which we can work for the various purposes.
It is realized that in a convention of this sort where nothing lias
been “ cooked up ” previously it is impossible to provide in the time
allotted a complete and accurate constitution and by-laws. If this
thing had been worked out by someone two or three weeks in ad­
vance, we might have come here with some plan that could be rail­
roaded through without much difficulty. But, we waited until the
meeting yesterday to decide why such an association is wanted, and
though we utilized the only time available, which was after adjourn­
ment last night, we realized that the only thing we could do was to
provide the machinery with which the work could be started. In
view of this situation we will have to trust a great deal to the work
of the executive committee during the next year, chiefly, because we
did not want to do anything without considering it. We wanted the
executive committee to consult with local groups.
Now, as to some of the duties that a secretary of such an organiza­
tion might perform: First and foremost, of course, he would have to
plan his organization, and secure the cooperation of the local as­
sociations. He would have to get in touch with them and find out
their views., and what they desire. Some of the things would be the
establishing of a clearing house through which we could exchange
ideas on employment problems more regularly. There would be con­
sultation with members on employment work, particularly with newer
firms, not as an expert, but merely telling them where the}Tcould go
to get information which is necessary, which will answer their ques­



tions. I know that has been done in a number of associations. I f an
older member who already had a department established were to raise
the question as to how he could handle his absenteeism, the secretary
would not attempt, of course, to tell him how he could handle the
problem, but he could say, “ Why, Mr. Eectanus, down in Middletown,
Ohio, has been studying that problem. Get in touch with him, and I
think he can help you.” There will be a number of activities of that sort.
At the present time the Government is also calling on the employment
managers for assistance in developing the work at various plants
that are being handled under the Government. I lmowTat present that
the shipping trade would like to secure the services of men to assist
in some of the shipyards. Now, it is barely possible that it is not
necessary for them to take a man away from his 30b permanently,
but perhaps it could be arranged that some, good man could be re­
leased for three months. There are some situations in the Ordnance
Department and other places where I don't doubt that a secretary
in touch with the situation throughout the country would be of great
benefit to the different departments doing actual work. Those are
some of the things suggested and talked over last night; and it was
felt that if we were going to do anything, we ought to provide a good
man and give him the necessary paraphernalia to do a good job.
The idea was that this should be done not hastily, but through an
executive committee, which would have an opportunity to consult
with the local group, and would cut its budget according to the
amount of money that it seemed possible to raise.
Mr. D oucet. I would not like to be understood as being unfriendly
to the question, but some sort of talk is necessary to “ sell ” the
thing to our firms. So it is worth while to go light on the $100
proposition, because if you need a budget of $20,000, it would seem
quite evident that 200 firms could be gotten to give $100, and you
would have your $20,000. It would seem really quite necessary to
get up a preparatory interest; it would seem to be a grave question
whether you could get your financial backing. So that throws the
thing back to the motion to leave the determination of the actual
amount of the dues in the hands of the executive committee.
The C h airm an . I don’t know that there is any further explanation
needed on that point. That was the idea of the committee.
D elegate. I don't know to whom the national association would be
responsible. There might be firms who would give the $100, or
various groups. To whom is the committee to be responsible in the
The C h airm an . As provided in the outline, six members of the
committee would be responsible to the local association; three only



would be responsible to the sustaining firm. That seems to carry
the control with the local body.
D elegate. Would the gentleman suggest where we can get funds
to start the association, if we don’t set some figure?
The C h airm an . If 3^011 will permit me, I don’t think he is ques­
tioning the desirability of raising it; he is simply suggesting that
the executive committee should take the matter into consideration.
D elegate. H ow are you going to go ahead without some stand­
ard to go ahead on? We can’t go ahead without dues coming in
from these people. How are you going to get them into the mem­
bership unless we set some sort of standard?
The C hairm an . Suppose we were to suggest “ such sum, not to ex­
ceed $100, as the executive committee may decide upon,” changing
the wording on group B to read, “ The 3?early dues shall be fixed
by the executive committee of this association, after consultation
with group members, at a sum not exceeding $100 a 37ear.”
In regard to group C, can’t w7e leave those dues at $10 ? Then the
situation is this: The yearly dues for the local association are to be
decided by the executive committee after consultation with the local
group. The yearly dues of the sustaining members are to be set
b3^ the executive committee at not to exceed $100 a 37ear; 3Tearly
dues for associate members will be $10 a 37ear.
[The motion was made and carried.]
The C hairm an . The next thing is the “ officers.” Section V, 1,
“ There shall be an executive committee elected at the annual*con­
vention, piade up of six members chosen from and by the group
members, and three chosen from and by the official representatives
of the sustaining members, to serve for the period of one 3Tear, or
until their successors have qualified.”
[The clause was adopted.]
The C hairm an . “ 2. The executive committee shall choose a presi­
dent, vice president, secretary and treasurer from among its own
number.” A suggestion was made to change that a little, and we
might as well have it right now.
Mr. W inans. The suggestion is that this section be changed to
read, “ The executive committee shall make nomination for a presi­
dent, vice president, secretary and treasurer, to be submitted, along
with nominations which may be made from the floor, to the official
delegates of the convention, to be elected for a term of one year or
until their successors qualify” ; the effect being to take the actual
election of officers out of the executive committee and put it 011 the
lie 0 1 *.



The C hairman . The question then is, By which method you want
your officers elected. There are two plans. Under the first, the execu­
tive committee elect from their own number itself; under the second
tlie executive committee bring in nominations which are voted upon
together with other nominations made on the floor. Is there any dis­
cussion on those two points, or can we decide which one? Will it
be satisfactory if I ask all in favor of 1 so to indicate, and then take
a corresponding vote on 2 ?
D elegate. Does the executive committee comprise officers?
The C hairm an . Yes.
D elegate. I don’t think it would be a democratic proposition to
have the officers and the executive committee nominate themselves for
a successive election. It would seem to me that the more democratic
way would be to have the entire convention appoint a nominating
committee, and have that committee submit the names of officers and
executive committee to the convention, and have the election made by
the convention rather than by the executive committee.
The C h airm an . I might say that the members of the executive
committee will be selected by representatives of different organiza­
tions from over the country; six will be chosen by the group mem­
bers, three by the individual members who will meet before the
convention and select their three delegates. Those men should be
chosen with much care, and they should be chosen with a feeling that
these nine men will elect those from their number qualified to act as
officers, and it would save a lot of unnecessary work. I f left for the
next meeting of the executive committee, it saves a lot of work when
they come to convention.
D elegate. I think we may copy the successful method of corpora­
tions, that is, of course, to elect a board of directors, who, in turn,
elect officers. This conduces to unity of responsibility and power.
There will never be any question as to whether it is the directors or
the officers who are responsible for the success or failure, and the
directors will have real power and the officers real authority.
D elegate. I still submit that the democratic way of electing officers
is on a convention floor. I had the privilege during the year of at­
tending a good many national association conventions, and I can’t
recall any convention the members of which are not given the privi­
lege of electing their officers from the floor of the convention. The
gentleman who just spoke to us said that it was a fine thing to have
the responsibility and the power given to the executive committee. I
think the power, at least, might be given, and the privilege given to
the general convention.



M r . H e w i t t . I b e lie v e v e r y s t r o n g ly th a t th e e x e c u tiv e c o m m itte e
s h o u ld b e th e o n e t o s e le ct th e officers. I w o u ld lik e to m a k e o n e
a m e n d m e n t. T h is q u e s tio n o f th e s e c r e ta r y is a v e r y s e r io u s o n e ,
a n d I c a n see v e r y r e a d ily h o w o u t o f o u r s ix m e m b e r s a p p o in t e d
b y o u r g r o u p m e n , o n a c c o u n t o f p re s s u r e in t h e ir o w n p la n ts , n o t o n e
o f th e se s ix m a y b e a b le t o a ssu m e a g r e a t b i g jo b o f s e c r e ta r y , a n d
I t h in k it o u g h t to b e m a d e p o s s ib le t o s e le ct a p e r s o n o u ts id e o f th is
grou p .
T h e C h a i r m a n . I a m g o in g t o ta k e th e lib e r t y , w it h th e c o n s e n t
o f o u r m e m b e r s , o f a c c e p t in g th e a m e n d m e n t o n th a t p o in t .
D r . E . B . G o w i n , o f th e N e w Y o r k U n iv e r s it y S c h o o l o f C o m m e r c e ,
A c c o u n t s , a n d F in a n c e , N e w Y o r k C it y . .T h is w o u ld b e th e e x e c u ­
t iv e s e c r e ta r y , n o t th e s e c r e ta r y ?
T h e C h a i r m a n . T h e e x e c u t iv e s e c re ta ry . T h is w o u ld b e th e c le r k
o f th e c o r p o r a t io n ; I a c c e p t th a t c o r r e c t io n . B u t th e re w o u ld b e a n
e x e c u t iv e s e c r e ta r y h ir e d in a d d it io n t o th e c o r p o r a t io n s e c re ta ry .
M r . G o w in . I f th a t is th e ca se, I w it h d r a w . T h e e x e c u tiv e s e c r e ­
t a r y is th e m a n I a m a ft e r .
M r . W i n a n s . W o n ’t it c le a r th e s itu a tio n i f th is s e c o n d s e c tio n
s im p ly b e c h a n g e d t o r e a d , “ T h e p r e s id e n t s h a ll a p p o in t a n o m in a t ­
i n g c o m m itte e ” w it h o u t s a y in g w h o s h a ll c o n s titu te it, “ w h o s h a ll
p r e s e n t n o m in a t io n s t o b e a c te d u p o n o n th e flo o r o f th e c o n v e n ­
t io n .” I s n o t th a t a ll w e w a n t, a n d w o n ’t th a t a c c o m p lis h th e
result ?

M r . R e c t a n u s . T h e m a in d iffic u lty seem s t o b e th a t w h ic h a r o s e
la st n ig h t in th e d is c u s s io n . E v e r y b o d y w a n ts t o a v o id th e p o s s i­
b ilit y o f a s e lf-p e r p e t u a t in g , g o v e r n in g b o d y . I f y o u h a v e th e
p r e s id e n t a p p o in t h is o w n e x e c u t iv e c o m m itte e y o u h a v e a n o p p o r ­
t u n it y f o r su ch a p o s s ib ilit y a r is i n g ; b u t, u n d e r th e p la n as p r o p o s e d
h e re , th e e x e c u t iv e c o m m itte e w ill c h a n g e e v e r y y e a r , b e ca u se th e re
are m o r e lo c a l b o d ie s th a n th e re a re r e p r e s e n ta tiv e s o n th e e x e c u tiv e
c o m m it t e e ; a n d t h e y a re a ll g o in g t o h a v e a c r a c k a t it. C h a n g e
y o u r e x e c u tiv e c o m m itte e e v e r y y e a r , a n d c o n s e q u e n tly y o u r officers
e v e r y y e a r , a n d y o u w o n ’t h a v e a s e lf-p e r p e t u a t in g b o d y .
T h e C h a i r m a n . To s i m p li f y m a tte r s, le t u s ta k e an e x p r e s s io n o f
o p in io n . A r e y o u r e a d y f o r th e q u e s t io n ; f o r th e d e fin ite q u e s tio n ?
P la n 1----- C a p t. F i s h e r . B e f o r e y o u m a k e a d iv is io n , m a y I p o in t t o th e
d e fin itio n , t o th e d is t in c t io n , b e tw e e n th e t w o p la n s ? I f y o u m a k e a
d is t in c t io n b e tw e e n th e w a y th a t th e officers f o r th is t e n ta tiv e first
y e a r s h a ll b e c h o s e n , a n d th e p e r m a n e n t m e th o d o f e le c t in g officers,
77920°— 19-------13



I a m q u ite s u re y o u c a n r e a c h a b e tte r a g re e m e n t. W h a t a re y o u g o in g
t o d o ? I s u g g e s t th a t y o u h a v e y o u r e le c t io n o f n o m in a t io n f r o m th e
flo o r a n d n o m in a t io n s b y y o u r o r g a n iz in g c o m m itte e as M r . W in a n s
s u g g e s te d , a n d t h a t y o u p r o v id e in y o u r p e r m a n e n t m e th o d s o m e
su ch t h in g as y o u h a v e h e r e in y o u r w r it t e n in s tr u m e n t. D o n ’t y o u
th in k th a t d is t in c t io n is w o r t h m a k in g ? T h e r e is s o m e fe a r in th o
m in d s o f p e o p le th a t t h is o r g a n iz e d c o m m itte e w ill step in a n d d o
t h in g s f o r th e c o n v e n t io n w h ic h a p r o p e r ly e le c te d b o a r d o f e x e c u ­
tiv e s w o u ld n o t d o .
D e l e g a t e . W h y n o t u se th is p la n o n ly f o r th e firs t y e a r ?
T h e C h a i r m a n . I t w ill b e u n d e r s t o o d th a t i f it seem s d e s ira b le ,
w h a te v e r p la n is d e c id e d u p o n c a n b e c h a n g e d a t th e n e x t c o n v e n tio n .
M r . R e c t a n u s . I m o v e th a t th e o r g a n iz a t io n c o m m itte e , im m e ­
d ia t e ly a ft e r lu n c h , p r e s e n t n o m in a t io n s f o r th e first y e a r ’s e x e c u tiv e
c o m m itte e , t o b e a d d e d t o b y n a m e s fr o m th e f l o o r ; t h a t an e x e c u ­
t iv e c o m m itte e o f n in e b e e le c te d f o r th e first y e a r , w h ic h sh a ll
c h o o s e its o w n officers.
[T h e m o tio n a ft e r b e in g s e c o n d e d w a s a m e n d e d t o th e e ffe e t th a t
n o m in a t io n s b e m a d e o n th e p la n o u t lin e d in cla u se 1 o f S e c t io n V ,
a n d w a s c a r r ie d .]
D e l e g a t e . W e m u st h a v e a n o r g a n iz a t io n o f lo c a l m e m b e r s in o r d e r
t o g e t th a t.
T h e C h a i r m a n . I t h in k it is th e se n tim e n t o f th e c o n v e n t io n th a t
th e o r g a n iz a t io n s h a ll m a k e t h a t s e le c tio n th is tim e .
D e l e g a t e . T h e o r g a n iz a t io n s h a ll se le ct th e se m e n ?
T h e C h a ir m a n . Y e s .
D e l e g a t e . B u t w e m u s t g o b a c k t o th e p e r m a n e n t fo r m o f th e
c o n s titu tio n . T h e r e a re n o s u s ta in in g m e m b e r s a t th is tim e . T h e r e
a re g r o u p m e m b e rs b u t n o s u s ta in in g m e m b e rs. H o w c a n y o u s e le ct
th e officers in th a t m a n n e r ?
T h e C h a i r m a n . I w ill s a y f o r th e o r g a n iz a t io n c o m m itte e t h a t
th e sen se o f th e c o n v e n t io n is t h a t th is o r g a n iz a t io n c o m m itte e
s h o u ld fo r g e t t e c h n ic a litie s , a n d g iv e u s re su lts. I s th a t w h a t y o u
w ant ?

[ T h e q u e s tio n w a s ta k e n o n th e p e r m a n e n t p la n f o r th e in s t r u c ­
t io n o f th e e x e c u t iv e c o m m itte e a n d d r a w in g u p th e c o n s t it u t io n .]
[U p o n th e v o t e as t o th e m e th o d o f s e le c t in g officers P la n 1, th a t
o f s e le c tio n b y th e e x e c u tiv e c o m m itte e , wTas a d o p t e d .]
[ T h e q u e s tio n w a s th e n ta k e n o n th e t h ir d cla u se o f S e c t io n V . ]
T h e C h a i r m a n . T h is h a s ju s t b e e n ta k e n c a re o f , a n d I s u g g e s t w e
m o v e t o s tr ik e th a t o u t.



[ I t w a s so m o v e d , s e c o n d e d , a n d c a r r ie d .]
[T h e fo u r t h cla u s e o f S e c t io n Y , “ th e officers s h a ll p e r f o r m a ll
d u tie s u s u a lly p e r t a in in g t o s u ch offices,” w a s th e n p la c e d b e f o r e th e
c o n v e n t io n f o r a c t io n a n d w a s c a r r ie d .]
T h e C h a i r m a n . B e f o r e w e a d jo u r n I w a n t t o a sk w h e th e r th e re
al*e a n y fu r t h e r s u g g e s tio n s th a t y o u w a n t t o s u b m it t o th e o r g a n i­
z a t io n c o m m itte e ? I f so , c a n w e h a v e th e m in th e f o r m o f a m o tio n ?
[ I t w a s s u g g e s te d th a t th e c o m m itte e p r o v id e a le tte r b a llo t f o r
th e a s s o c ia tio n , f o r th e p u r p o s e o f s i m p li f y in g m a tte r s f o r th e c o n ­
v e n t io n p r o p e r b y d e c id in g q u e s tio n s d u r in g th e y e a r .]
[F u r t h e r s u g g e s t io n w a s m a d e th a t n o p r o v is io n b e m a d e as t o
w h o m th e officers s h a ll e n g a g e .]
T h e C h a i r m a n . T h e r e a re s e v e r a l t e c h n ic a l d e ta ils w h ic h s h o u ld
b e p u t i n : T h e r ig h t t o c a ll m e e tin g s , a m e n d m e n t o f th e c o n s t it u t io n ,
a n d a n u m b e r o f th in g s w h ic h m u st b e p r o v id e d in e v e r y w o r k a b le
f o r m o f o r g a n iz a t io n .
[ T h e c o n s t it u t io n as fin a lly a d o p te d b y th e c o n v e n t io n w a s as f o l ­
lo w s :]
C o n s t it u t io n ,

I. N AM E.

The name of tills organization shall be the National Association of Employ­
ment Managers.

The objects of this association shall be:
1. To promote and foster interest in and study of employment and personnel
problems throughout the country.
2. To stimulate the growth of local employment managers’ associations in in­
dustrial and commercial centers.
3. To encourage the installation and development of employment and service
departments in public and private establishments.
4. To act as a clearing house for better methods for handling problems of
5. To work with governmental agencies to bring about closer cooperation
concerning employment problems.

M E M B E R S H IP .

Membership of this organization shall consist of the following classes:
A. Group member s .— Local employment managers’ associations approved by
the executive committee and conforming to the constitution and by-laws who
shall appoint a member as their delegate in this association and may send as
many representatives as they choose to the annual convention.
B. Sustaining members .— Employers who may designate an executive in
charge of employment as their delegate in this association, and who are ap­
proved by the executive committee, may send as many representatives to tho
annual convention as they desire.



C. Association members. — Individuals interested in tlie objects of this asso­
ciation who are not connected with employers eligible for membership under
class B.


A. Group membership. — The yearly dues shall be fixed by the executive
committee of this association after consultation with group members.
B. Sustaining membership. — Yearly dues shall be fixed by the executive
committee and shall not exceed $100 per annum.
C. A ssociate membership. — Yearly dues shall be $10,

1. There shall be an executive committee elected at the annual convention
made up of six members chosen from and by the group members, and three
chosen from and by the official delegates of the sustaining members, to serve
for the period of one j^ear, or until their successors have qualified. Meetings
of the executive committee may be called by the president and shall be called
by him on the request of any three members of the committee.
2. The executive committee shall choose a president, vice president, secretary,
and treasurer from among its own number.
3. The officers shall perform all duties usually pertaining to such offices.
V I.


There shall be an annual convention of the association at a place chosen by
the majority vote of the voting members present at the annual convention and
at a time to be determined by the executive committee.



The executive committee shall have authority to submit by mail ballot to
the voting members of the association any questions requiring action of the
members as a whole which may arise between annual conventions.
V III. A M E N D M E N T S .

Amendments to this constitution may be made by two-thirds vote of the
voting members present at the annual convention.

[T h e c h a ir m a n th e n in t r o d u c e d V i c t o r T . J . G a n n o n o f C h ic a g o ,
111., w h o g a v e th e f o l l o w i n g a d d r e s s :]



J u s t 20 m o n th s a g o th e r e w a s o r g a n iz e d in C h ic a g o a c o m m itte e o f
b u s in e s s m e n t o fo r m u la t e s o m e m e th o d o f c a r in g f o r th e g r a y -h a ir e d
m a n , w h o , b e ca u se tim e h a d fu r r o w e d h is c o u n te n a n ce , m a d e h is ste p
le ss s p r in g y , o r d im m e d h is v is io n , w a s a t a d is a d v a n t a g e in s e c u r in g
e m p lo y m e n t , s in c e th e t e n d e n c y o f th e e m p lo y e r w a s to e n g a g e o n ly
y o u n g m e n , n o t r e c k o n in g th e u ltim a te cost.
T h e w o r k o f s e c u r in g p o s it io n s f o r m e n p a s t 45 y e a r s o f a g e w a s
d e le g a t e d t o th e E m p lo y e r s ’ A s s o c ia t io n o f C h ic a g o . T o te st th e
n e e d o f su ch an e n d e a v o r , a n a d v e r tis e m e n t w a s p la c e d in a d a ily
p a p e r , a s k in g th o s e w h o h a d fo u n d it d iffic u lt t o se cu re w o r k t o w r it e
t o th e B u r e a u , s t a t in g th e ir a g e, q u a lific a tio n s , le n g t h o f tim e u n e m ­
p lo y e d , a n d th e n u m b e r o f d e p e n d e n ts . T o th is a d v e r tis e m e n t 2,600
a n sw e r s w e r e r e ce iv e d .
I b e g a n im m e d ia t e ly to ta k e ste p s to in te re s t th e e m p lo y e r in th e
g r a y -h a ir e d m a n . W it h th e a id o f som e k in d ly p u b lic it y , p e r s o n a l
ta lk s w it h la r g e e m p lo y e r s , a n d c ir c u la r le tte r s t o th e g r e a t m a jo r it y
o f w a g e p a y e r s — th e s m a ll m e r c h a n t— I d e v e lo p e d a n a p p r e c ia t io n
o f th e m a n b e y o n d th e p r im e o f life . T h e ta sk Avas n o sin e cu re . I t
m e a n t 14, 16, a n d so m e tim e s 18 h o u r s ’ w o r k a d a y t o d o it. B u t in
20 m o n th s I h a v e p la c e d in g o o d p o s it io n s , a t m o r e th a n liv in g
w a g e s , o v e r 18,000 m e n . T h e n u m b e r o f p e r s o n s d e p e n d e n t o n th e se
m e n w a s in e x ce ss o f 38,000.
T h e a v e r a g e a g e o f a p p lic a n t s p la c e d w a s 57 y e a rs . T h e y o u n g e s t
g r a y -h a ir e d m a n I p u t to w o r k lo o k e d t o be 60, t h o u g h h e w a s o n ly
42. T h e d e a n o f o u r p la c e m e n ts w a s 92 y e a rs o f a g e, b u t h e p o sse sse d
a s p ir it o f a le rtn e s s, a m b itio n , a n d s e lf-r e s p e c t.
M o r e th a n 90 p e r c e n t o f th e m e n w e sen t o u t w e r e p u t t o w o r k
th e sa m e d a y . O v e r 97 p e r c e n t o f th e m e n p la c e d m a d e g o o d , o v e r
$ 3 ,0 0 0 ,0 0 0 in sa la rie s h a s b ee n p a id to th e m , a n d th o u s a n d s o f e m ­
p lo y e r s a c k n o w le d g e th e v a lu e t h e y h a v e r e c e iv e d f r o m o u r w o r k .
I t d id n o t ta k e lo n g t o e x h a u st th e first lis t o f 2,600 u n e m p lo y e d ;
sm a ll, d a ily “ H e lp w a n t e d ” a d v e r tis e m e n ts , a s k in g th a t m e n p a s t
45 a p p ly to o u r office f o r th e v a r io u s e m p lo y m e n ts o p e n , b r o u g h t
to u s a to t a l o f o v e r 30 ,0 0 0 a p p lic a n ts .
JA t t h e t im e t h i s a d d r e s s
A s s o c i a t i o n o f C h ic a g o .

w a s d e liv e r e d

M r.


w as

m anager


th e

E m p lo y e r s *




T h i r t y - f o u r m e n w h o m I p la c e d a t m o d e r a te s a la rie s a fe w m o n th s
a g o fr e q u e n t ly c o m e b a c k t o h ir e so m e o f th e o t h e r b o y s . W e h a v e
s t r iv e n t o e s ta b lis h a s o r t o f c o m m o n g r o u n d f o r th e e m p lo y e r a n d
th e u n fo r t u n a t e s w h o w a n t o n ly a ch a n ce .
W e h a v e n e v e r o ffe r e d a m a r r ie d m a n a jo b p a y in g less th a n $15
p e r w e e k , a n d w e a lw a y s e n d e a v o r t o se cu re th e h ig h e s t r a te f o r th e
a p p lic a n t w it h w if e a n d c h ild r e n . N o m a n s h o u ld liv e m o r e th a n
4 0 m in u te s ’ t r a v e l f r o m h is w o r k .
I t is ju s t as im p o r t a n t th a t a n a p p lic a n t b e p le a s e d w it h th e w o r k
a n d s a tisfie d th a t h e c a n liv e o n th e s a la r y o ffe r e d , b e f o r e s e n d in g
h im o u t, as it is t h a t th e e m p lo y e r b e sen t a m a n w h o is c a r e f u lly
p r e s e le c te d a c c o r d in g t o th e jo b a n a ly s is fu r n is h e d us.
N o t o n e c e n t w a s e v e r c h a r g e d t o e ith e r a p p lic a n t o r e m p lo y e r .
T h e p e r c a p it a p la c e m e n t c o s t, c o v e r in g a ll e x p e n s e , w a s 89 cen ts.
T h e fu n d s w e r e c o n t r ib u t e d b y c o r p o r a t io n s a n d p u b lic -s p ir it e d c it i ­
z en s.
T h e a p p lic a t io n b la n k s w e u se a re s im p le . T h e sa m e c a n n o t b e
s a id o f b la n k s in c o m m o n u se b y n e a r ly a ll o f th e e m p lo y e r s w h o
b o a s t o f m o d e r n m e th o d s . W h a t w e w a n t t o k n o w o f a n a p p lic a n t is
h is n a m e , a d d r e ss, p h y s ic a l c o n d it io n , a g e , c o n ju g a l c o n d it io n , n u m ­
b e r o f d e p e n d e n ts , th e n a m e s o f h is la s t th re e e m p lo y e r s , a n d th e e x ­
a c t d u r a t io n o f s e r v ic e g iv e n t o ea ch .
D u r a t io n o f fo r m e r s e r v ic e is o n e o f th e g r e a te s t fa c t o r s in s e c u r ­
i n g a p r o p e r in s ig h t in t o a n in d iv id u a l’s a b ilitie s . I f a m a n h a s
b e e n e m p lo y e d b y o n e c o n c e r n f o r 2 y e a rs , a n d a n o th e r f o r 1J y e a rs ,
a n d a t h ir d f o r o n e y e a r , o r t w o o r th re e y e a rs , I a r g u e th a t th e m a n
h a d so m e q u a lific a tio n w d iich p le a s e d th o s e th r e e e m p lo y e r s , a n d
r a r e ly h a s m y d ia g n o s is b e e n in e r r o r . R e fe r e n c e s a re p a sse. I h a v e
k n o w n m a n y a n e m p lo y e r t o w r it e le tte r s “ T o w h o m it m a y c o n ­
c e r n ,” s t r o n g ly c o m m e n d in g a fo r m e r e m p lo y e e , a n d y e t w h e n t a lk ­
in g o v e r th e te le p h o n e t o a p r o s p e c t iv e e m p lo y e r g iv e th a t sa m e
in d iv id u a l a n e n t ir e ly d iffe r e n t “ c h a r a c t e r .”
S o m e o n e h a s s a id , “ H u m a n n a tu r e is th e sa m e th e w o r ld o v e r .”
T h a t is n o t th e tru th . I h a v e m e t o v e r 3 0,0 0 0 p e o p le w it h h u m a n
n a tu r e s w id e ly d iv e r g e n t , a n d a m m e e t in g th e m e v e r y d a y . S o m e
p e o p le a re im p o s s ib le . I n th is c la s s ific a tio n th e v a s t ly g r e a t e r
n u m b e r a re e m p lo y e r s . I f e m p lo y e r s w e r e o b lig e d t o d o th e t h in g s
t h e y ask th e w a g e e a r n e rs t o d o th e r e w^ould b e less la b o r u n re st. I t
h a s b e e n n o c h i ld ’s p la y t o e d u c a te th e e m p lo y e r a lo n g th e lin e s o f h is
o w n in d iv id u a l lim it a t io n s . L e t su ch b e th e e m p lo y m e n t m a n a g e r s ’
w o r k t o -d a y , t o -m o r r o w , a n d f o r a ll tim e . T h e m in d o f th e e m p lo y e e
is r e a d y t o b e t a u g h t th e e m p lo y e r ’s sid e , a n d th e ste p n e ce s s a r y t o ­
d a y is th e fo s t e r in g o f th e e m p lo y e r ’s in te re s t in th e in d iv id u a l e m ­
p lo y e e . T h e e m p lo y e r h a s n e v e r t o ld th e e m p lo y e e o f th e v a r io u s
c o s ts w h ic h , c o m b in e d , ea t th e h e a r t o u t o f th e s e llin g p r ic e . W h a t



does the employee know of overhead expense, raw-material figures,
production costs, advertising budgets, sales outlay, and transporta­
tion tax? What does the employee know of the difficulties of com­
mercial financing? Nothing; yet he will be found to be as keen in
an analysis o f such matters as the employer, and oftentimes more so.
The employer, in filling his plant with young men, does not figure
on migration, a glaring fault of the younger man. Nine out of ten
employers do not take into serious account the cost of hiring and

G e n e r a lly s p e a k in g , w h e n a m a n h a s r e a c h e d 50 h e s h o u ld h a v e
e s ta b lis h e d h im s e lf fin a n c ia lly a n d s o c ia lly . S o m e o f th e r e a s o n s
w h y o u r r e g is tr a n ts h a v e r e a c h e d th e la te fo r t ie s w it h o u t a c o m ­
p e t e n c y a re e x tr a v a g a n c e , th e c o m m o n a n d n e g le c t e d ills o f h u m a n ­
k in d , m a r it a l tr o u b le s , in a b ilit y t o k e e p a b re a st o f th e tim e s , la c k o l :
v o c a t io n a l g u id a n c e , a n d a t im id h e a r t. G r e a te s t o f a ll is th e la s t
n a m e d . P a r e n t s u n w it t in g ly b r e a k a s o n ’s s p ir it , a n d h e c a r r ie s
t h r o u g h l i f e a c u r s e h e c a n n o t ca st. T e a c h e r s o ft e n c h id e th e le a r n ­
i n g m in d a n d th e s h a d o w g r o w s , c lo u d in g th e fu tu r e . E m p lo y e r s ’
g e n e r a l cu sse d n e ss a n d e r r o r o f ju d g m e n t o f m e n t a lity h a v e s tifle d
e m p lo y e e s ’ a m b itio n , w h ic h , i f g iv e n sc o p e , w o u ld h a v e e n r ic h e d b o t h
e m p lo y e r a n d e m p lo y e e .
The war, damnable as it is, is surely a cleansing fire. It has mado
junk o f old ideas, and has proved that the old men of Chicago have
come back to stay back.

W A S H IN G T O N , D. C.

T lie F e d e r a l B o a r d f o r V o c a t io n a l E d u c a t io n h a s b e e n e n g a g e d
in a c a r e fu l p r e lim in a r y s t u d y o f th e p r o b le m o f r e e d u c a tio n f o r o u r
r e tu r n e d s o ld ie r s a n d s a ilo r s w h o h a v e in c u r r e d h a n d ic a p s b y r e a so n
o f su ch s e r v ic e . T h e s e s tu d ie s h a v e b e e n p r in t e d as S e n a te D o c u ­
m e n ts 166 a n d 167, a n d a re a v a ila b le f o r d is t r ib u t io n o n a p p lic a t io n
t o m e m b e r s o f th e S e n a te .
I n th ese s tu d ie s th e p r o b le m w7as d iv id e d in t o t w o p o r t io n s , th e
first b e in g th a t w h ic h h a d t o d o w it h th e t r a in in g o f te a c h e rs f o r
o c c u p a t io n a l t h e r a p y , a n d th e s e c o n d ta k e s u p th e e n tir e s u b je c t a n d
d iscu sses r e h a b ilit a t io n v o c a t io n a lly as a n a t io n a l p r o b le m . T h e
p o s it io n is ta k e n th a t, s in c e th e U n it e d S ta te s G o v e r n m e n t w it h d r e w
f r o m in d u s t r y t w o o r th re e m illio n m e n , it w a s th e d u t y o f th e G o v ­
e r n m e n t t o r e p la c e t h e m in in d u s t r y , w it h d u e r e g a r d f o r th e c a p a ­
b ilit ie s o f th e in d iv id u a ls a n d t o n e u tr a liz e s u ch h a n d ic a p s as h a v e
b ee n s u ffe r e d b y th ese m e n in th e ir p a t r io t ic se r v ic e .
I t is n o t b y a n y m e a n s ta k e n t o b e a p h ila n t h r o p ic p r o p o s i t i o n ; it
is e n t ir e ly g o v e r n m e n t a l a n d n a t io n a l in its s c o p e . E lim in a t in g
a b s o lu te ly th e s e n tim e n ta l a n d h u m a n ita r ia n a s p e c t o f th e q u e s tio n ,
th e fa c t s a ll p o in t ir r e v o c a b ly to th is w o r k as a p a r t o f th e g r im
b u sin e ss o f w a r , th e first c o n s t r u c t iv e ste p a ft e r so m u c h d e s tr u c tio n .
I t is a s a lv a g in g o f p r e c io u s m a te r ia l o f w h ic h th e fo u n d a t io n s o f
th is N a t io n a re a p a r t — its in c o m p a r a b le m a n h o o d .
T h e r e a re a n u m b e r o f re a so n s w h y th ese d is a b le d m e n s h o u ld b e
g iv e n su ch e d u c a t io n as w ill e n a b le th e m t o o v e r c o m e th e d is a b ilit y
th e ir p a t r io t ic s e r v ic e in c u r r e d f o r th e m a n d a c h ie v e in d e p e n d e n c e
a n d a c o m fo r t a b le liv in g , d e s p ite th e h a n d ic a p o f m a im e d m e m b e r s
o r w r e c k e d c o n s titu tio n .
V o c a t io n a l r e e d u c a t io n w ill r e e s ta b lis h th e d is a b le d s o ld ie r o r
s a ilo r as a n in d e p e n d e n t, s e lf-r e s p e c t in g e c o n o m ic u n it. A n y o th e r
p o l ic y in e v it a b ly w ill in d u c e e c o n o m ic d e p e n d e n c y w it h its in h e r e n t
m o r a l a n d s o c ia l e v ils . F o r th e se m e n a n d f o r th e c o m m u n it y a ls o ,
m o r a l a n d s o c ia l, as wTe ll as e c o n o m ic , w e ll-b e in g is in a la r g e m e a su re
at sta k e.
I t is t o b e n o t e d in th is c o n n e c t io n th a t th e a g e o f th e A r m y — 21
t 0 3 1 — i s SUc h t h a t th e m e n a re y o u n g e n o u g h t o b e s u s c e p tib le o f
t r a in in g , a n d t h a t th e b e n e fits o f su ch t r a in in g w ill a c c r u e d u r in g a
p e r io d e q u iv a le n t t o th e n o r m a l e x p e c t a t io n o f l i f e f o r m e n in e a r ly
m a n h o o d . R e c o g n iz in g th e v a lu e o f v o c a t io n a l t r a in in g , s o m e o f th e
m e n w e r e t a k in g su ch t r a in in g w h e n d r a ft e d .



E x p e r ie n c e h a s d e m o n s tr a te d th a t d is a b le d m e n w h ile u n d e r h o s ­
p it a l tr e a tm e n t n a t u r a lly t e n d in m a n y in s ta n c e s t o f a l l in t o a sta te
o f c h r o n ic d e p e n d e n c e , c h a r a c te r iz e d b y lo s s o f a m b itio n . T h e d iffi­
c u lt y o f l i f t i n g th e m o u t o f th is w e ll-r e c o g n iz e d p h a s e in c re a s e s
r a p id ly d u r in g th e p e r io d im m e d ia t e ly f o l l o w i n g c o n v a le s c e n ce .
I n it ia t io n o f v o c a t io n a l t r a in in g at th e e a r lie s t p o s s ib le m o m e n t a n d
p e rs is te n t, s y s te m a tic d e v e lo p m e n t o f th is t r a in in g a ft e r c o n v a le s ­
c e n c e w ill a v o id th is d a n g e r o f v o c a t io n a l d e g e n e r a tio n .
O n c e th e m e n h a v e fa lle n in t o th is sta te o f c h r o n ic d e p e n d e n c e o r
h a v e d r ift e d b a c k in t o in d u s t r y w it h o u t t r a in in g t h e y c a n n o t e a s ily
b e in d u s t r ia lly r e c o v e r e d .
W it h o u t th e p r o t e c t io n o f v o c a t io n a l r e e d u c a tio n , t o g e t h e r w it h
s y s te m a tic r e e s ta b lis h m e n t in w a g e -e a r n in g e m p lo y m e n t, th e h a n d i­
c a p p e d m a n w ill d r i f t a b o u t in in d u s t r y , an u n s k ille d la b o r e r , a n d a
s u b je c t f o r e x p lo it a t io n b y th e u n s c r u p u lo u s a n d th e r e c ip ie n t o f p it ­
ta n c e w a g e s.
T h e p o lic y o f v o c a t io n a l r e h a b ilit a t io n is o n e o f c o n s e r v a tio n . D is ­
a b le d m e n s k ille d in s p e c ific tra d e s w ill b e , so f a r as p o s s ib le , r e e s ta b ­
lis h e d in th o s e tr a d e s b y v o c a t io n a l r e e d u c a tio n . W it h o u t s u ch
t r a in in g v a lu a b le a c q u ir e d tr a d e e x p e r ie n c e w ill in m a n y ca ses b e
lo s t, a n d th e r a n k s o f s k ille d la b o r w il l b e t o th a t e x te n t d e p le te d .
I n c id e n t a lly , th e d r i f t in g o f h a n d ic a p p e d m e n in a n y c o n s id e r a b le
n u m b e r in t o u n s k ille d e m p lo y m e n ts w ill o c c a s io n d e m o r a liz a t io n a n d
im p a ir w a g e s ta n d a rd s .
I t s h o u ld b e b o r n e in m in d th a t th e d is a b le d m e n a re, in m a n y
ca ses, s p e c ia lly tr a in e d a n d s k ille d . I f a llo w e d , t h r o u g h la c k o f su ch
r e e d u c a t io n as th e y r e q u ir e , t o s in k in t o th e r a n k s o f th e u n s k ille d ,
t h e ir p la c e s in th e N a t io n ’s sch e m e o f e c o n o m ic p r o d u c t iv it y c a n n o t
b e fille d . N o s u p p ly o f s k ille d m e n is n o w , o r w ill b e a ft e r th e W a r ,
a v a ila b le f r o m o th e r c o u n tr ie s , sin c e e v e r y c o u n t r y at w a r is e x p e r i­
e n c in g , a n d w il l c o n tin u e to e x p e r ie n c e in th e y e a r s f o l l o w i n g th e
W a r , a g r e a t s c a r c it y o f s k ille d la b o r .
V o c a t io n a l r e e d u c a t io n o f m e n d is a b le d f o r m ilit a r y s e r v ic e is,
t h e r e fo r e , a m e a n s n o t o n ly o f c o n s e r v in g tr a d e s k ill b u t o f c o n s e r v ­
in g it in a tim e o f n a t io n a l e m e r g e n c y a n d o f p r e v e n t in g in so m e
d e g r e e th e s c a r c it y o f s k ille d la b o r th a t is c e r ta in t o d e v e lo p as th e
W a r p r o g r e s s e s . T h e n a tio n w h ic h d o e s n o t c o n s e r v e th e v o c a t io n a l
s k ill o f its tr a in e d w o r k e r s w ill, to th a t e x te n t, w e a k e n its r e c u p e r a ­
t iv e a n d c o m p e t itiv e p o w e r a n d to th a t e x te n t w ill c o n s e q u e n tly f a i l
to a c h ie v e th e im m e d ia te n a t io n a l r e h a b ilit a t io n o f its in d u s t r ia l,
c o m m e r c ia l, a n d a g r ic u ltu r a l p o w e r .
T h e r e tu r n to c iv il e m p lo y m e n t o f la r g e n u m b e rs o f m e n u n d e r
th e a b n o r m a l c o n d it io n s o f th e p e r io d o f d e m o b iliz a t io n w ill o c c a ­
s io n fa r -r e a c h in g e c o n o m ic d is tu r b a n c e a n d m a la d ju s tm e n t o f la b o r
s u p p ly t o d e m a n d , u n le ss th a t r e tu r n is m a d e u n d e r s o m e c o m p r c -



h e n s iv e sch e m e o f a d m in is t r a t io n . V o c a t io n a l r e e d u c a tio n w ill p r o ­
v id e o n e m e a n s o f so d ir e c t in g th e r e tu r n o f m e n in t o c iv il e m p lo y ­
m e n ts as to o c c a s io n th e le a st p o s s ib le d is tu r b a n c e , a n d w ill g o f a r t o
a v o id im p a ir m e n t o f e s ta b lis h e d s ta n d a r d s o f liv in g .
I n in d iv id u a l ca ses, u n d o u b t e d ly , n e w v o c a t io n a l c a p a c it ie s w ill b e
d e v e lo p e d in h a n d ic a p p e d m e n b y s y s te m a tic v o c a t io n a l r e e d u c a tio n .
I n m a n y ca ses th e s e le c tio n o f w a g e -e a r n in g e m p lo y m e n ts h a s b e e n
o r ig in a lly a c c id e n t a l a n d w it h o u t d u e r e g a r d t o n a t u r a l a p titu d e .
V o c a t io n a l r e h a b ilit a t io n b y t r a in in g f o r n e w e m p lo y m e n t s f o r
w h ic h th e m e n h a v e n a tu r a l a p t it u d e m a y d e v e lo p e n t ir e ly n e w v o c a ­
t io n a l c a p a c itie s , m a k in g th e m e n e v e n m o r e efficien t p r o d u c e r s th a n
t h e y w e r e b e fo r e r e c e iv in g th e ir in ju r ie s .
T h e in d u s t r ia l r e s t o r a t io n o f m e n h a s b e e n f o u n d a v e r y im p o r t a n t
fe a tu r e o f t h e ir p h y s ic a l r e s to r a tio n . T h e first a im o f th e d o c t o r s is
t o in s p ir e in th e m in d o f th e m a n a b e lie f in h is o w n a b ilit y t o liv e
a n d b e u s e fu l. O n c e th e m a n h im s e lf is c o n v in c e d th a t i t is w it h in
h is p o w e r to r e c o v e r a n d b e c o m e s e lf-s u p p o r t in g , h a l f th e b a ttle o f
th e d o c t o r s is w o n .
A m a n ly i n g in a h o s p it a l m in u s a le g a n d a n a r m , o r b lin d , te n d s
t o w a r d t a k in g a h o p e le s s v ie w o f life . B e f o r e h e e n te r e d th e m ili­
t a r y s e r v ic e h e m a y h a v e b e e n e n g a g e d in a n o c c u p a t io n s u ch as th a t
o f an ir o n m o ld e r , w h ic h o c c u p ie d a ll o f h is lim b s a n d sen ses. H o
k n o w s th a t h e is in c a p a c it a t e d f o r th is w o r k ; c o m p le t e ly sh a k e n
p h y s ic a lly , h is m in d a ffe c te d in g r e a te r o r less d e g r e e b y h is a w fu l
e x p e r ie n c e o f b a ttle , h e sees lit t le a h e a d b u t m is e r y a n d d e a th . H e
d o e s n o t fe e l a b le t o h e lp h im s e lf.
F ir s t , th e d o c t o r o r th e te a c h e r seek s t o in s p ir e in th is m a n a h o p e
o f fu t u r e life . T h is h o p e it s e lf is a w o n d e r fu l r e s to r a tiv e , s u p e r io r
t o a n y s k ill o f th e p h y s ic ia n . W h e n fr o m th e d e p th s o f b la c k d e s p a ir
th e m a n c lim b s m e n t a lly in t o th e lig h t a n d sees a fu t u r e o f u s e fu l­
n ess, o f in d e p e n d e n c e , a n d h is v a lu e as a c it iz e n e n h a n c e d , h a lf th e
b a t t le f o r th a t m a n h a s b e e n w o n . T h e n h is m e n t a lity is g u id e d ,
a n d h is r e m a in in g c a p a b ilit ie s a re g iv e n th e first, k in d e r g a r t e n , ste p s
in o c c u p a t io n s , t o in c u lc a te th e h a b it o f w o r k a n d c o n c e n t r a t io n a n d
t o g e t h is m in d o ff h is tro u b le s . T h is , as h is c o n fid e n c e r e tu r n s , is
g r a d u a t e d a n d h e p r o g r e s s e s t o w a r d th e p o in t w h e r e h e ta k e s u p th e
r e a l w o r k o f th e r e a l o c c u p a t io n f o r w h ic h h e is t o b e r e e d u c a t e d
a n d in w h ic h h e is d e te r m in e d t o “ m a k e g o o d ” as a fu t u r e a v o ­
c a t io n , a n d w h ic h h e w ill u n d o u b t e d ly “ m a k e g o o d ” in a n d s lip
b a c k in t o th e r a n k s , a n h o n o r e d c it iz e n w h o b e a r s e v id e n c e o f h is
h ig h p a t r io t is m — a m a n w h o g a v e g la d ly f o r h is c o u n t r y , a n d w h o
a sk s n o s p e c ia l c o n s id e r a t io n f o r it, b u t o n ly t h a t h e m a y c o m e b a c k
in t o th e r a n k s o f th e “ S o ld ie r s o f R e c o n s t r u c t io n ” a n d h e lp o b lit e r ­
a te th e sc a rs o f w a r .

S A T U R D A Y , M A Y 11—A F T E R N O O N SE SSIO N .


C IT Y .


[ T h e m e e t in g w a s c a lle d to o r d e r at 2.45 p . m . b y M r . W e lls , a c t in g
as c h a ir m a n .]
M r . W e l l s (a c t in g c h a ir m a n ). T h e first b u sin e ss is th e r e p o r t o f
th e c o m m itte e . I t h in k th a t it m ig h t b e w e ll f o r som e o n e to m o v e
th a t th e a r tic le s o f o r g a n iz a t io n as a d o p t e d s e c tio n b y s e c tio n b »
a d o p te d as a w h o le .
[ I t w a s so m o v e d , s e c o n d e d , a n d c a r r ie d .]
M r . W e l l s (a c t in g c h a ir m a n ). T h e c o m m itte e h a s m e t a n d s u b ­
m its th e f o l l o w i n g n a m e s f o r n o m in a t io n f o r m e m b e r s o f th e E x e c u ­
t iv e C o m m it t e e :
Ralph G. Wells, Wilmington, Del.,
W . H. Winans, Cleveland, Ohio,
H . G. Kobick, Chicago, HI.,
Raymond C. Booth, Rochester, N. Y .,
E. H. Fish, Worcester, Mass.,
Elmer F. Harris, Pittsburgh, Pa.,

Representing local associations;
Mrs. Jane C. W illiam s, Norwood, Mass.,
S. R. Rectanus, Middletown, Ohio,
Capt. Boyd Fisher, Washington, D. C.,

M em bers at large.

G e n tle m e n , th a t is th e r e p o r t o f th e C o m m itte e o n N o m in a t io n s ,
a n d it is u p f o r y o u r a c tio n . H a s a n y o n e a n y c o m m e n t o r r e m a r k ?
[ I t w a s m o v e d a n d s e c o n d e d th a t th e r e p o r t b e a d o p t e d .]
[ T h e q u e s tio n w a s th e n o n th e m o tio n th a t th e r e p o r t o f th e O r ­
g a n iz a t io n C o m m itte e b e a c c e p te d , a n d th a t th e m e n n o m in a te d b e
e le c te d to s e rv e as m e m b e r s o f th e E x e c u t iv e C o m m itte e f o r th e c o m in g y e a r . M o t io n c a r r ie d .]
M r . W i n a n s . I m o v e th a t th is c o n v e n t io n g o 011 r e c o r d as r e c o m ­
m e n d in g t o th e lo c a l e m p lo y m e n t m a n a g e r s ’ a s s o cia tio n s th a t w o m e n
e m p lo y m e n t m a n a g e r s b e in c lu d e d in t h e ir m e m b e r s h ip , o r be a d ­
m itte d t o m e m b e r s h ip .
[M o t io n s e c o n d e d .]




D elegate. H ow about the assistant employment managers?

M r . W i n a n s . T h o s e s u g g e s tio n s c a n b e in c o r p o r a t e d in a m o tio n
t o b e a d m itte d u p o n th e sa m e b a sis a s m e n .
T h e A cting Chairman. T h e a s s o c ia tio n s , as I u n d e r s ta n d , w o u ld
b e v e r y g la d t o h a v e th e c o o p e r a t io n a n d th e m e m b e r s h ip o f th e
w o m e n a c t u a lly e n g a g e d in e m p lo y m e n t w o r k ; b u t th e r e is a te n ­
d e n c y a ll a lo n g th e lin e t o e m p lo y w o m e n f o r s e r v ic e w o r k . S u p p o s e
w e p u t it t h a t w a y : “ W o m e n e n g a g e d in e m p lo y m e n t o r s e r v ic e
w o r k .”
[M o t io n c a r r ie d .]
T h e A c t i n g C h a i r m a n . I m ig h t s a y th e re a re t w o o r th re e o th e r
r e s o lu tio n s b e in g p r e p a r e d w h ic h w ill b e p r e s e n te d b e f o r e th e c lo s e
o f th e c o n fe r e n c e . I t h in k th e re a re o n e o r t w o c o u r t e s y r e s o lu tio n s
t h a t w e s h o u ld a d o p t.
I s th e re a n y o t h e r m a tte r o f b u sin e ss th a t y o u w is h t o b r in g u p
b e fo r e w e p r o c e e d to th e r e p o r t o f th e c o m m it t e o n t u r n o v e r ?
D e l e g a t e . I w o u ld lik e t o a sk w h e th e r it w o u ld b e w e ll t o lim it
th e w o r d “ s e r v i c e ” t o “ in d u s t r i a l ” s e r v ic e ? I t h in k th e in te n tio n
w a s n o t t o o p e n th e w a y t o w o m e n e n g a g e d in o u t s id e p h ila n ­
t h r o p ic w o r k ; th e w o r d “ s e r v ic e ” a lo n e w o u ld m a k e it t o o b r o a d .”
T h e A c t i n g C h a i r m a n . I t h in k th a t is a g o o d s u g g e s tio n . S u p ­
p o s e w e s a y “ s e r v in g as e x e c u tiv e s in e m p lo y m e n t a n d p e r s o n n e l
d e p a r tm e n ts .”
D e l e g a t e . T h e s e a re r e c o m m e n d a tio n s t o th e lo c a l a s s o c ia tio n s ?
! T h e A c t in g C h a ir m a n . Y e s .
[T h e r e c o m m e n d a t io n w a s th e n c h a n g e d t o r e a d : “ W o m e n e x e c u ­
tiv e s a c t u a lly e n g a g e d in e m p lo y m e n t a n d p e r s o n n e l w o r k .” ]
[ A n a m e n d m e n t to t h is s u g g e s tio n w a s o ffe r e d , m a k in g th e o r ig in a l
m o t io n b r o a d e r in its s c o p e a n d r e c o m m e n d in g t h a t th e “ lo c a l a sso ­
c ia t io n s ta k e in w o m e n o n th e sa m e b a sis as m e n .” ]
[ T h e a m e n d m e n t to th e o r ig in a l m o tio n w a s a c c e p t e d .]
D e l e g a t e . T h e o r ig in a l r e s o lu tio n r e a d s “ lo c a l,” b u t n o t “ S ta te .”
W o u l d th a t a lso a p p ly t o th e S ta te e m p lo y m e n t b u r e a u ?
T h e A c t i n g C h a i r m a n . T h e q u e s tio n o f th e p o l ic y o f th e lo c a l
a s s o c ia tio n w it h r e g a r d t o th e m e n w o u ld h in g e o n th is n e w w o r d in g
e n tir e ly . W o m e n w o u ld b e a d m itte d t o th e lo c a l a s s o c ia tio n s o n th e
sa m e b a s is t h a t m e n are.
D e l e g a t e . W o u l d th a t a p p ly t o “ S t a t e ” ? D o th e S ta te b u re a u s
c o m e u n d e r th e h e a d o f lo c a l a s s o c ia tio n s ? I n R o c h e s t e r a n d A lb a n y
t h e y h a v e S ta te e m p lo y m e n t b u re a u s w h ic h a re d o in g s im p ly lo c a l
w ork .



T lie A c t i n g C h a i r m a n . T h a t is a q u e s tio n f o r th e lo c a l R o c h e s te r
a s s o c ia tio n t o d e c id e . I f th e y a c c e p t th e m e n fr o m th e S ta te b u re a u
t h e y w o u ld th e n a c c e p t th e w o m e n fr o m th e S ta te b u re a u .
A r e th e y g o in g t o a c c e p t th e m e n ?
T h e A c t i n g C h a i r m a n . T h a t is a q u e s tio n f o r th e d e c is io n o f th e
lo c a l a s s o c ia tio n .
D e l e g a t e . I t h in k th e S ta te a s s o c ia tio n s h o u ld b e r e c o g n iz e d b e ­
f o r e th e lo c a l b u re a u .
D e le g a te .

T h e A c t i n g C h a i r m a n . Y o u a p p r e c ia te , o f c o u r s e , th a t w e c a n ’t
ta k e tim e t o g o in t o th e r u le s o f th e lo c a l a s s o c ia tio n b e y o n d r e c o m ­
m e n d in g th is o n e p o in t . I f w e w o u ld ta k e u p th e q u e s tio n a n d
s p e c ify , a n d a tte m p t t o c h a n g e th e r e g u la t io n s o f lo c a l a s s o c ia tio n s ,
w e w o u ld th e n g e t in t o a n e n d le ss d is c u s s io n , b e ca u se it is a p r o b le m
t h a t h a s t o b e h a n d le d lo c a lly .
W o u l d th a t c o m e u n d e r cla u se 1 ?
. T h e A c t i n g C h a i r m a n . T h is is w ith r e g a r d t o th e n a t io n a l a sso­
c ia t io n . W e a re n o t t a lk in g a b o u t n a t io n a l a s s o cia tio n s , w e a re t a lk ­
i n g a b o u t lo c a l m a n a g e r s ’ e m p lo y m e n t a s s o c ia t io n s ; as f a r as th e
S ta te is c o n c e r n e d , th e y c o m e in as m e m b e r s o f th e n a t io n a l a s s o cia ­
t io n b y p a y m e n t o f $10.
D e le g a te .

[T h e a c tio n o f th e c o n v e n t io n w a s th e n o n th e o r ig in a l r e s o lu t io n
o f M r . W in a n s w it h r e g a r d to th e a d m is s io n o f w o m e n as m e m b e r s
o f lo c a l a s s o cia tio n s , as a m e n d e d .]
[T h e r e s o lu t io n w a s c a r r ie d .]
T h e A c t i n g C h a i r m a n . A r e th e re a n y fu r t h e r in s t r u c t io n s ?
M r . W i n a n s . W o u l d it n o t b e w e ll f o r y o u t o c a ll a m e e t in g o f th e
e x e c u t iv e c o m m itte e in o r d e r th a t w e ca n d e c id e o n som e fu r t h e r
s te p s ?
T h e A c t i n g C h a i r m a n . A s c h a ir m a n o f th is c o n v e n t io n , I w ill,
th e n , c a ll a m e e tin g o f th e n e w ly e le c te d e x e c u t iv e c o m m itte e t o
m e e t h e re im m e d ia t e ly f o l l o w i n g th e a d jo u r n m e n t o f th is c o n v e n t io n .
M r . R e c t a n u s . T h e r e is o n e m o r e t h in g th a t is im p o r t a n t , a n d I
w o u ld lik e t o p u t it to th e c o n v e n tio n n o w , i f I m a y . I m o v e th a t
th e e x e c u t iv e c o m m itte e b e in s tr u c te d to e m p lo y a n e x e c u tiv e se cre ­
t a r y a n d su ch s ta ff as m a y b e n e ce ssa ry . I t h in k th a t th e e x e c u tiv e
c o m m itte e w o u ld lik e t o a sk sp e c ific in s tr u c tio n s fr o m th is c o n ­
v e n tio n .
T h e A c t i n g C h a i r m a n . M a y I m a k e a n a d d it io n t o th a t, “ not, t o
e x ce e d su ch fu n d s as a re d e fin ite ly in s ig h t ” ?
M r . K o b i c k . I f w e g e t th a t k in d o f a n e x e c u t iv e s e c r e ta r y th e re
is n o t m u c h in v ie w f o r a g o o d m a n .



[The motion was seconded, and, on being put, was carried.]
[It was moved, seconded, and carried that all names and addresses
o f a business connection be printed in the report.]
The A c t i n g C h a i r m a n . Y o u all know of Dr. Gowin’s work in New
Y'ork City, in connection with the executives’ club and in New York
University. Dr. Gowin is scheduled to act as chairman and I am
going to ask him to take charge now and introduce the committee
that is studying turnover.
Dr. E. B. G o w i n , of the New York University School of Com­
merce Accounts and Finance, New York City. We appointed a com­
mittee some little time ago to take up an old problem, that of turn­
over. The committee intimates that it is ready to report. I under­
stand Mr. Kelly, of Harvard University, is going to present the re­
port. Mr. Kelly, o f the vocation bureau of Harvard University.
B o y W . K e l l y , director, Bureau of Vocational Guidance, Har­
vard University, Cambridge, Mass. I wish it understood at the out­
set that I do not purpose to answer detailed questions regarding this
proposed standard method of computing turnover. After wrestling
with 21 managers sent to me at Harvard to learn something about
employment work, I found out that many of them knew more about
that job than I did; and I am determined not to be stumped this
afternoon with questions of a technical nature. I am going to leave
to practical members of the committee the answering of such tech­
nical questions as you will probably ask. The committee has con­
sidered the various methods of computing labor turnover, and has
likewise considered the methods which were in use by the nine men
called into the committee. The committee took the liberty of inviting
in more men, in order to have an adequate representation from man­
agers with regard to the problem of computing the percentage of
turnover. Our committee thinks that the principal reason for any
computation of turnover is that we may procure the reduction of that
which is computed. In other words, it does not do much good to put
down a figure which represents the amount of the.loss, unless we fur­
ther analyze the problem. Our committee has not gone so far as to
say how you are going to analyze the reasons for turnover. I can say
for myself, I think, that it is absolutely essential to have a separate
report to deal with absenteeism. Our formula for computing turn­
over does not take into account absenteeism. It seems to me essential
that some separate report be made oh that subject. An account should
be given of the reasons for it, and in the same way some account ought
to be taken of the reasons for turnover. I think that one other
matter ought to be made clear to you and that is this, the report
does not represent a “ high-brow ” effort; it represents the consensus
of opinion of men who have been figuring on turnover for a good



many years. In some of the discussion the other day it was pretty
clear that reports w^ere being received at Washington which indi­
cated that the absence of an}" standard was creating a considerable
amount of confusion as to what actually constituted a reasonable
amount o f turnover. There are still a great many firms who obtain
the percentage of turnover by taking the number of people 011 the
pay roll at the beginning of the year and the number at the end of
the year and dividing by 2 in order to get a basis. That, of course,
although common practice, is an absurd method.
Having found what the denominator of our fraction should be, the
next problem wTith which we are confronted is to determine what the
numerator ought to be. I think it unnecessary for me to enter
into detailed discussion of the reasons for arriving at the conclu­
sions w^e are giving you. I am going to read a paragraph which
we have set at the head of this paper which will give you the exam
pies which we set down to illustrate our methods.
A good many people state that their turnover for a week is 1 per
cent or less. It seemed to us that if we arrived at a standard method
of computing turnover, and then let everybody state his turnover
for a certain length of time in terms of a yearly percentage, there
would not be confusion on that point. Compute for a week, and say
the percentage for last week was “ so and so,” and this week it is
better. I f we multiply that percentage by 52 we get the yearly rate,
based 011 that week.
I think it is quite significant that we should propose this standard
method immediately after we have completed our arrangements for
a national association of employment managers. The profession
of teaching is an old profession, but only within the last four or
five years have teachers been able to set up a yardstick by which
we can say that boys and girls of 9 years of age in the schools of
the city o f Rochester compare more or less favorably with the boys
and girls in the ninth year o f age in Boston, Cleveland, and so
on. We have developed tests such as the Curtis standard test, the
Holmes reading test, the Thorndyke writing scale, which have
come into common use within the last four or five years, and by
which we are able to say with a reasonable degree of certainty that
our children are up to the standard or not.
It seems to me that in this standardized method of computing labor
turnover you have a mere beginning. It is highly desirable for
this association to set up standards of hygiene and health for work­
ers which will affect the health, effectiveness, and contentment of
your workers, and the success of your own employment department.
I am glad to be able to submit in behalf of this committee the be­
ginning in that kind of work.



D e l e g a t e . I f that report is open to discussion, in the second para­
graph, I note hirings are equal to the total. We are considering

Mr. K e l l y . I refuse to discuss the technical aspects of this ques­
tion until the other members of the committee have been heard. I
am sure there are managers of long experience on that committee
who can discuss it better than I can. I f they refuse I will meet the
emergency. It is up to the committee.
W i l s o n C. M a s t o n , Eastman Kodak Co., Rochester, N. Y. The
members of the committee decided that it is up to Dr. Meeker to
answTer all questions. This gentleman wants a question answered.

Dr. M e e k e r . I am not attending a school on employment manage­
ment, Mr. Chairman, but I am learning. I knew I did not know
very much about turnover before I came here. I have learned that
the gentlemen I have met here don’t know any more about it than
I do. I came here with the idea—I*am not sure whether I have it
now or not—that the object to be sought for in computing your per­
centage of labor turnover is to get at the net hirings. I suppose that
if the committee had had more time it would have turned out a
better piece of work. I think it would have started out by defining
labor turnover. The thing I am principally interested it, as I have
said, is to get all to agree to use as the denominator of your fraction
the man-days worked by your establishment. I f you have not the
man-days worked, then there is something the matter with your es­
tablishment, and there is a job for an employment manager and a
full size, thoroughly vigorous adult employment manager in your
We have all agreed that that is the proper denominator. Now, the
question is brought u p : Have we got the right term for the numera­
tor of the fraction? I am not sure about that. Others can speak
with much more experience; I will not say knowledge. I would
like to hear from all who have divergent opinions upon this. I have
been converted several times in several different ways; and I am
a little bit uncertain. Now take this from me on the level: Don’t
attempt to make this formula for computing your percentage of
labor turnover a universal panacea, and don’t attempt to find the
absolute. There ain’t no such animal, as the Irishman said after
looking at the giraffe for 15 minutes. But I do hope that in this con­
ference we can formulate a definition of labor turnover that will be
adopted by all. You can do it. There are here approximately 250
men, which means there will be about 250 definitions of labor turn­
over ready at hand now. Let us have just one of them. Let us
agree upon that. Then we can agree upon the proper method of



computing the percentage labor turnover. There is the point, and
a very good point, made by the gentleman who is waiting for me
to sit down. What does it cost an establishment when an employee
leaves, voluntarily or involuntarily? It costs money every time a
man is separated from his job. I have been looking at it from the
other side, the education of the man to fill the job. You shake your
heads. I am well aware that every man in your establishments rep­
resents an investment. Thank Heaven the employers of the country
are beginning to consider their employees almost as intelligently as
they are considering their machines. When we treat our employees
as well as we treat our mules, then we will be on the road to the
Mr. D o u c e t . That did not answer my question. I figure that
you may hire a thousand men and not lose one, and you have no
turnover. According to this method of computing turnover, you
Dr. M e e k e r . H o w do you make that out? You are absolutely
wrong. You have no numerator to start with. Mr. Stewart of the
bureau has a story about how to juggle statistics: first, get your
statistics. Now if you want to juggle with your labor turnover,
first get it. Labor turnover is something positive; it is not this
formula; you can’t evolve labor turnover from this’ formula unless
you have labor turnover. I f you have not lost any men you have not
any labor turnover.
Mr. S t e w a r t . I would like to say two or three words on this
point. When we first started out on labor turnover we attempted
to get the number of jobs in the factory. We were told we could
not get it. Now you tell me you can get the aggregate of your force
for us. Divide that by the number of days you run, and that is
your one-man days, and that is your number of jobs.
Now, then, the turnover is the number of men you must hire to
fill your number of jobs. Your replacements in your plant are your
turnover. As regards net hirings, say your concern had a thousand
jobs—a thousand one-man day’s work to begin with, but the num­
ber of jobs was decreasing; in that case you would be hiring a great
number of men as replacements, and yet because the number of jobs
was going down so fast, your net hirings would be less than nothing.
In other words, on a net hiring basis, on a decreasing force you do
not show your turnover, and unless your turnover means replacement,
it does not mean anything. Now, if you are on an increasing basis,
if there are new jobs and new men, it will cost you as much to break
in those new men to the new job as it does to break in new men to an
old job. So that is not turnover; that is starting industry in the



sense of calling one job an industry, and I am not satisfied that you
are going to get what you want on a basis of net turnover, with the
shift o f jobs in the plant. But if you wTill keep this in mind: That
your average one-man day is the number of jobs, and the number of
men you must employ to fill those jobs is your turnover.
Now, the Bureau of Labor Statistics wants to know the number
of jobs and the number of men who have quit, and the number of men
hired, and the bureau will do the rest.
Capt. F i s h e r . I promised n lady I would present a point I don’t
understand. Miss Huey says she feels dissatisfied with example 1 , in
which, after you get your average number of men and the working
force by counting up your employees each day, say 1,050 people,
you proceed to take the number of employees at the end of the week
as the basis o f getting your net hiring. She says the number of
people on the pay roll at the end of the week (Saturday) is likely
to be very much lower than on Friday, especially if you pay Friday
night.f The number on your pay roll Saturday is less than Friday
night; therefore, if you use that as your subtrahend in this formula
for hiring you will get a smaller number of net hirings than you
really have had. What you should use is the average of your weekly
force. One thousand forty is the figure you could use there fairly,
and therefore on that account your percentage of turnover would be
higher. She feels that the number of employees on the pay roll
Saturday night is misleading because that is not the typical work
force; that you should use the average for the week and substract it
from the average of your previous week as a basis for getting your
net hirings.
D e l e g a t e . What is straight net hirings? I know of cases where
we have had people that filled the same job three or four times a week.

Capt. F i s h e r . I disagree with that: I dont think that a man
who is actually given work, and has made “ scrap” of a job at a ma­
chine and has left can really be counted in turnover. The object
in finding turnover is to find the cost.
D e l e g a t e . It is the loss of men that you are ‘interested in, and not
the hiring of men. And it is loss of men and not the addition of
men that we ought to figure as labor turnover.
D e l e g a t e . I f you have lost your men you have your turnover.
The discharge of employees at the actual completion o f a job does
not constitute turnover, but “ lay off.” In other words, if you build
a house you employ carpenters, and the various kinds of workmen
necessary to build that house. You have no men quit you while you
are actually doing the work, and while you need them; but you lejt


the men go when your job is finished.


Then you have had no labor

Mr. D o u c e t . In figuring labor turnover, it seems to me we ought
to consider both hiring and leaving. The net number of hirings
during any given week, the net number of leavings during any given
week, could be computed. I think you can arrive at a percentage
there. I f a man is once hired, if he works five minutes, he is an in­
vestment. He has gone through physical examination, gone through
the employment department, he costs something. This plan does
not give us, so far as I can see, a formula to use for the hiring and
leaving and putting together the number of employees on the pay
roll at the same time.
C. M. B r a d i n g , superintendent o f safety, Wisconsin Steel Co.,
Chicago, 111. I would like to give the idea of the Wisconsin Steel
Co. in figuring labor turnover. Our turnover is computed by taking
the number of positions vacated as compared to the average force
on the average pay roll. There is a vast difference between the aver­
age force worked and the average pay roll. It is the average number
of men worked and not the average number of men on your pay roll
that is the important point. There may be 200 absentees every day
in a large industrial plant with three shifts of eight hours each.
May I ask some of you who are figuring labor turnover in lines
where there are several departments, and each department stands
by itself, how you consider the transfer o f employees from one de­
partment to another, either by way of promotion or to put a man
in a job he is better suited for. Do you take that into consideration
in taking a plant turnover or do you use it as department turnover?
We have 31 departments in our plant. When we transfer a man
from one department to another we do not count that as turnover.
It is not turnover for the plant but it is turnover for the department
which releases that man. I f a man is released from one of our
departments, what we call a “ department release,” goes into the
labor department; where he is interviewed and sent back by some
other foreman, it is counted against the department from which he
came as labor turnover in that department.
Most plants drop a man from a pay roll when he has been absent
a certain length of time and they don’t know whether to bring him
back or not. We try to keep our pay roll alive by not carrying a man
for over two weeks, unless he has reported for work or is injured
and can*t return. Suppose, for instance, in the plant that pays every
two weeks and keeps the time in two-week periods; on the 15th
o f the month the man has a full-time record. In the next period if
he does not work full time he may be kept on the pay roll if he comes
back within a certain period; 10 days is allowed to him to do that.



Then a couple of days later that man comes back, and in the mean­
time his job has been filled. But even with its being filled we still
can use another man, so he is reinstated or rehired, goes right back
in the same department, and has the same job or on a similar job
under the same foreman.
Now, if 3^011 take your figures for that, or for the period you set,
you don’t know whether your man is coming back; and so you can’t
say he has left. Next month he comes back, goes through the employ­
ment .office, is rehired, yet he is not a new man. How would you
consider that as affecting turnover? I f you deduct the number of
rehirings from the number leaving, in figuring the number that ac­
tually remain with the company, what length of time do you allow a
man to be off without counting him dismissed?
D e l e g a t e . Can’t we eliminate all refinements in the discussion of
this proposition, and come to a decision as to whether or not the
exits or the hirings are going to be the foundation? I move that it
be tlie sense of the meeting that the “ exit” of employees is the founda­
tion o f labor turnover.
|The motion was seconded. During the extended discussion that
followed, a suggested amendment that “ exits ” be limited to “ the
loss o f employees, except those discharged or laid off for permanent
reduction of the number employed,” was rejected.]
[The convention finally adopted the original motion that turnover
figure be confined to “ exits ” without qualifying phrase.]

The C h a i r m a n . We would be remiss if we were to leave without
paying our respects to the host. I think that we are also greatly
indebted to Capt. Fisher for the work he has done in arranging this
program. Every person on the committee was very much absorbed
in other work, and Boyd Fisher practically did all of the work on the
securing of speakers. A ll we did was to meet with him one night and
decide in a general way what the program should be and give him
permission to get the speakers. I think you will agree that he did
an excellent work. I don’t know how much you have enjoyed this
conference, but I personally have enjoyed the convention very much,
and I trust you have all had as good a time as I have had. There
has been more inspiration, more good fellowship, and more solid
work done in a friendly and whole-hearted manner than it has been
my pleasure to experience in any other convention that I have at­
tended. And I think we are greatly indebted to the city of Rochester
and to the chamber of commerce and to the University of Rochester
for the cordiality with which they have received us, and for the
excellence o f the arrangements that have been made. And, there­
fore, I know you will join with me in presenting this resolution
which, with your permission, I will read into the records myself:



Resolved , That the Association of Employment Managers in convention as­
sembled extend to the United States Government its- whole-hearted support to
the Government in the important work of stabilizing employment, bringing up
the efficiency of workers, and making for a better understanding and more
harmonious relations between employers and employees, and this association
offers its cooperation to achieve those results; and, further,
Resolved , That we extend to the Rochester Chamber of Commerce our cordial
appreciation and hearty thanks for the helpful cooperation and generous hos­
pitality in making the arrangements for the second annual convention of this
association; and that we express our sincere thanks to Mr. Raymond C. Booth,
the secretary of the Employment Management Group of the Industrial Manage­
ment Council of the Rochester Chamber of Commerce for the support that he
has given u s; and be it further
Resolved , That this association extend to Capt. Boyd Fisher its sincere
thanks for his efforts and his work in securing the speakers for this most inter­
esting convention.

[The adoption of the resolutions was moved, seconded, and car­
The C h a ir m a n . We now pass to the last address to be delivered
before the association, on maintenance of labor standards during the
Avar, to be presented by a woman. I trust she will look at it from
a woman’s point o f view. We commenced Avith an address concerning
standards for women, and we end that Avay, which means Ave have the
ladies with us first and last. The subject will be presented by Mrs.
Ordway Tead.




W A S H IN G T O N , D. C.

As Dr. has just said, the Government has called upon the
essential industries of the country for vastly increased production;
at the same time, the Government has enunciated the policy that
labor standards must be vigorously maintained during the war. It
is the particular effort of the Industrial Service Section of the Ord­
nance Department to interpret these two facts and their relation to
each other in terms of actual practical results in the plants workingon ordnance contracts.
I am going to limit myself to a brief discussion of the work of
the women’s branch of the Industrial Service Section of the
Ordnance Department in relation to the maintenance of labor stand­
ards for women. First, what is the women’s branch? second, what
does it do, what it is function? third, what is our working plat­
form? fourth, what are some of the standards, and what do they in­
volve when applied? In order to define the women's branch I must
define the relations of the Industrial Service Section to the office of
the Chief of Ordnance. The office of the Chief of Ordnance has
five divisions: Production, procurement, supply, inspection, and
finance. The organization of the office of the Chief of Ordnance is
divided into three bureaus, and one of them is the Control Bureau.
The Industrial Service Section is one of the sections of the Control
Bureau; and the women's branch is one of the branches in the Indus­
trial Service Section.1
What does the women's branch do; wliat is its function? The
woman’s branch is charged with the responsibility of advising plants
which employ women and which are working on ordnance contracts,
about all sorts of problems relating to the employment of women.
These plants may be grouped under three heads: Government
arsenals, plants working on a cost-plus basis, and plants with straight
bid contracts. The branch acts as advisor for ordnance plants em­
ploying women. We advise as to how production may be increased
and maintained over a period of time by the establishment of the
right sort o f working conditions.
1 Since this address was delivered the Industrial Service Section o f the Ordnance De­
partm ent has been made part o f the Production D ivision.




I am going to emphasize four points in our working platform.
Maximum production over a period of time can be attained and
maintained only by providing the right sort of working conditions.
British experience gives graphic illustrations of this. Second,
maintenance of existing local standards in war crises and under
war conditions is sometimes insufficient to insure the health and
the productive capacity of the workers. In certain instances, addi­
tional safeguards must be created and adopted in order to meet a
particular need. I will illustrate that later. Third, it is our belief
that women should not be used to replace men on men’s wrork un­
less it is necessary. I f a shortage of male labor arises and we are
advised that men can not be supplied for the work, then the situation
must be carefully analyzed .and the wTork on which it is proposed to
use women must be studied and analyzed into its various factors be­
fore the w^omen are put on the job. After we have the factors and
the various elements involved in doing that job determined and de­
fined, then we must find out under what conditions women can best do
that job. In other words, analyze the work, and then, on the basis
oz the analysis establish your conditions. Let me state clearly that
we believe that women should never be introduced on men’s wrork
to lower rates or break strikes. The fourth point in our working
platform is this, that the maintenance of standards reduces itself as
a practical matter to handling the labor problem in a plant In the
most effective way possible; and the wTay to do this, as you know, is
by having a special department in the management which is charged
with the responsibility of handling all the problems relating to the
selection, training, and maintenance of the working force in each es­
tablishment. It is my belief that where Avomen are employed in any
significant number, 011 shop work, a woman should be in this depart­
ment, which may be called the employment management department,
or the service department. In this woman should be centered the
responsibility of maintaining the right sort of standards for women,
and the responsibility of seeing that each woman is placed at the
work she can best do over a period of time.
What are some of these standards and what do they involve when
actually applied? These standards may be grouped under four
1 . Wages.
2 . Hours.
3. Adjustments that may be necessary in conditions of work.
4. Health and sanitary provisions.
Mr. Fullerton, in his discussion yesterday of standards for women
in industry, brought up the question, in regard to wages, of whether
a woman should have the same weekly wage as a man on the same
kind of work. Mr. Fullerton was, of course, speaking of the gar-



mcnt trade, primarily known as a woman’s trade, and I am not
going to enter into a discussion of tlie rate of wages for women in
trades in which they have always been employed. The thing I am
interested in at the present moment is whether women are to be paid
the same wages as men when doing men’s work, and put in definitely
on work previously done by .men. The Government has been ex­
plicit on this point, stating in General Orders, No. 13, issued by the
Chief of Ordnance last October and addressed to commanders of
arsenals and manufacturers working on ordnance contract, the policy
that when women are used to replace men they shall be paid the
same wage for the same work. Equal pay for equal work is
the slogan. The Quartermaster General issued a pamphlet, ad­
dressed to commandants and to manufacturing concerns with
Quartermaster’s contracts, containing suggestions as to maintenance
of labor standards. This also included the equal pay for equal work
policy. The Taft-Walsh board has taken the same stand; and the
packers’ agreement, which is now in operation, maintains this policy
of equal pay for equal work.
Now, in all of these instances the policy is not the most significant
thing, although it is very significant. It is the application and
working out- of that policy in the individual plant that is really
the significant thing. And in order to apply this policy of equal
pay for equal work— and I realize it is a very controversial question,
because I never go into a plant where the question is not brought up—we must consider several things:
First, when a woman is put in on a man’s work, does it necessitate
the reorganization of the way that work is done; and if it does mean
adaptation in method of work, how much do these adaptations cost in
terms of the unit cost of production? In England they have hacl
some very unfortunate experiences, because some of the manufac­
turers in trying to apply this policy made slight changes in the way
the work was done, and therefore called it different work. They
thereby complied literally with the word of the law, but broke the
spirit o f it by paying the women lower rates, simply because a
minor adjustment had been made. I fancy from my interviews with
manufacturers on ordnance contracts, that the same thing will bs
tried here. One reason that it may be tried is that we do not always
stop to think what it means to have a policy of “ equal pay for equal
work,” and w7hat it means to apply it. For example, if you pay 10
women working on inspection of small gun parts, which has always
been done in a given plant by men, it may be necessary to have
one or possibly two men laborers who will move boxes of in­
spected parts about the room, and the manufacturer will say:
“ These women are not doing the same work as the men, because they
do not lift the boxes; I have to employ one or two men to keep this



group o f women busy. Therefore, they are not doing the same work
as men; and, therefore, it is justifiable, even in the light of the na­
tional policy, to pay them a lower rate.” That leads to a very im­
portant point, which is this: When you take such a step as described
in my illustration, you simply functionalize your process further.
Now we know from industrial experience where scientific manage­
ment has been introduced that increased functionalizing of process
does not necessarily mean a less output, a lower output, a higher unit
cost o f production. But on the other hand, from studies that have
been made, and from the experience of employers who have intro­
duced scientific management into their shops, functionalization means
increased output per individual, and a lower unit cost of production.
And it is on the basis of the daily or weekly output of the individual
and the unit cost of production that the standard wage should be set.
Now all this means in application that when you put women on
men’s work, you should compare the output per individual for women
with the output per individual for men. In many plants where
women are being put 011 inspection work, special assembling, etc.,
the women are showing an output which exceeds that of the men, and
in some instances where the women have been 011 such work for six
months the increased output continues. We must study these things,
and we must find out which kinds of work women can do most effec­
tively in comparison with men.
Then comes the matter of hours. The policy stated in General
Orders, No. 13, which is significant, and a resume of all the other poli­
cies concerning hours, is this: That existing standards must be
rigidly maintained, and even where the law permits a woman to work
0 or 10 hours, every effort should be made to reduce the hours of
women to 8. However, we are in a war emergency, when goods
must be got out and individuals must necessarily make some conces­
sions, and must face varying conditions in order to meet the emer­
gency. As regards night work for women, we know from experi­
ments that night work for women means high unit cost of production,
largely because of the increased supervision that is necessary, and
because night work for women seems to lower hourly production.
The time may come when it is necessary to use women on night work
even though they do not produce the same as on day work. When
that time comes each situation must be analyzed as a special situa­
tion. The fact of a bona fide emergency must first be established.
When it is found that we must have women on night work, specific
conditions must be established, providing for supervision, for proper
feeding, and for proper transportation facilities, which are especially
important for night workers.
In regard to adjustments which may be necessary in the condi­
tions of work when women are introduced on men’s work, certain



machinery which is supposed to be safe for men may not be safe for
women. An occupation which may be safe for a man with closeclipped hair may have a real hazard for a woman with long hair
which may be easily loosened. Machines may need to have extra
guards. All these things must be considered by employers who are
putting women on machine work. Then there is the matter not only
of having the machine safe but of making the women as safe as pos­
sible while at wTork at the machine. That reduces itself to appro­
priate shop clothes. Crepe cle chine waists are not the proper kind
o f garb for shop work. When a woman handles explosive powder it is
dangerous to have her wear her street clothes at work. The way to get
around that is to have a practical uniform, good looking enough so
that the women will be glad to wear it, and wear it with enthusiasm,
and at the same time adapted to the particular kind of work. The
method o f adopting the uniform is important. We have had reports
of cases where firms put the women into uniforms, and the next day
many of the women left. That has happened in several instances.
One method of adopting a uniform and getting it into use in the
shop was used with success at a Government arsenal. A committee
of girls w7as called, and the girls decided that they would draw
up a design for a uniform, which they did, and had a sample made.
The uniform which they first designed had ruffles around the ankles,
but the girls felt they had participated in planning their own uni­
form. Then we had a designer and manufacturer of men's shop
clothes come to the arsenal and give them practical suggestions, the
safety engineer of the arsenal made practical suggestions from his
knowledge of machine hazards, and the Women’s Branch helped
them in every way it could. The result was a practical uniform
which, I believe, is adapted to both machine and powder work. An
arsenal is, in some respects, a cross section of the munitions in­
dustry, and if we can standardize this uniform, and if other plants
that are working on ordnance can use it, we can get the uniform
cheaper, which is an important factor. I have a picture here which
may interest you. The furnishing of the proper kind of shop clothes
to women, either on machinery or handling explosive powxlers, is
an important matter. We will send this photograph to you if you
write for it. Another point which should be noted with regard to
uniforms is that, in order to get the maximum value out of a uni­
form, it must be laundered regularly. That is the only way you can
establish a common standard o f cleanliness and that esprit de corps
which is one o f the beneficial results of using uniforms for women in
I went to visit one of the largest shell-loading plants in this coun­
try. They are proposing to use women in the loading of amatol
shells. They adopted a uniform with three pockets on the outside,



which happened to be supplied by the same manufacturer who
worked out our arsenal design, which shows you can’t always .de­
pend upon the manufacturer. For it is fatal for women on powder
work to have open pockets on their suits; powder gets in the pockets.
Some powder when dried will start to burn. I know of one case
where a girl had been working with inflammable powders, in her or­
dinary street clothes. Some one rubbed against her going home
in the street car and she burst into flames. Get a uniform adapted
to the particular work on which women are being employed.
In summarizing, the following points are to me the most im­
portant :
First, the value of a national policy of maintaining standards de­
pends on the application of that policy in each shop.
Second, the intelligent application of such a policy must be worked
out in each plant by a department manager to administer labor
Third, where women are employed it is necessary to have a woman
in that department.
In conclusion, I want to say that although many women are now
in war industries, the number is not significant in comparison with
the vast number of women in war industries in England. The num­
ber is being daily increased, however. Women are being introduced,
and are engaged on work which they have never done before, and
which involves new responsibilities. And if women must go into
industry in the great industrial army behind the lines, let us see to it
that they have a chance to make their contribution in the most
effective way.
D e l e g a t e . There is one point that I know employers are inter­
ested in. They are interested in having some one who will take
charge of all this work in the factory that is done by women. I
have myself been fortunate in securing as assistant employment man­
ager a matronly woman with considerable experience. She has had
rather exceptional success perhaps in handling the women in our
factory. What I want, and what our manufacturers want, is some
woman to come in and “ put across” these various standards- How
can we get that woman?

Mrs. T e a d . I am very much concerned as to where we are to get
the women to do this work. I have referred that question to Capt.
Fisher, who, as representative of the Ordnance Department, has
charge of the employment courses, being given to train people to
do this work in the Ordnance Department; and Capt. Fisher is
formulating plans for the training of such women. Dr. Mann men­
tioned the courses for health officers, which is not the same thing



but which will give us a small number of women to clo health work
in plants. Capt. Fisher is at present working on this proposition.
D e l e g a t e . Capt. Fisher the other day seemed to be a little luke­
warm about women in the co.urses. Could we have a special course?
Capt. F i s h e r . I will say that that question is being debated and
being strenuously opposed by the head of Mrs. Tead’s department.
W e can not admit women to the courses unless they have the same
qualifications as men. It is a big experiment to have a six weeks’
course, and to admit women without sufficient industrial background
to 1<1lese courses would be further to trifle with what is already an
experiment. It is out of the question to get any results out of a
six weeks’ course if the standards of the course are lowered.
Please don’t mistake my reticence for lukewarmness. I can not
commit my superiors, and it would be to reveal too much disagree­
ment with them, perhaps, or a disagreement that does not exist, for
me to say there was strong oposition before they had taken action.
1 think it is quite possible we shall have a special course for women.
That is our next problem to deal with. I hope you will not con­
sider us lukewarm about the matter. We are in favor of increasing
the number of women used as employment managers as far as pos­
sible, but we do not wish to endanger the value of these special
courses by any hasty action. To accuse us of lukewarmness in the
matter is to accuse us of something which is decidedly not our feel­
ing. We are anxious to train women for jobs as well as men. There
is a need of increasing the numbers of women employment managers,
and we are going to stimulate the demand for them; but so far we
have not had any application from any woman with sufficient in­
dustrial background who was desired by a manager in a war-contract
plant, no woman equipped with sufficient industrial experience for
our first two courses. And our first problem as teachers, so to speak,
is to see to the qualifications of our entrants.
D e l e g a t e . I want to tell Capt. Fisher that he has brought out an
important point. A large number of employers want to put this
across and they would like to have the women. Would it be worth
while to push this point with regard to a course for women ?

Mrs. T e a d . I have been very much interested in this part of the
discussion. I have been asked by a great number of college women
how they could get the experience that would fit them for this work.
With rare exceptions, the woman who has had from four to five years’
experience can not handle this kind of a job. She is not the type of
woman wanted. There would have to be some arrangement to get
the woman who has the right background, even though she has not
the shop experience. At present we are facing the problem of un­
trained women being placed in positions of great responsibility. For



instance, in one plant there is a woman who has been a librarian and
who has had a few weeks’ experience in a social settlement. With
that as the extent of her experience, she is determining conditions of
work for hundreds o f woman workers employed on hazardous w ork!
In another plant the woman in charge of the women’s work has
always been the private secretary to the head of the company. Until
recently she had never been through the shops, because in that plant,
although half of the force is made up of women, it was thought
not to be the proper thing for a woman in the office to go through the
shop, “ for fear of being insulted.” That girl, an able woman in her
line, is now determining the conditions of the work under which we
must get production of an absolutely essential product in ordnance!
D e l e g a t e . I have got to the point where I don’t care how they are
trained or who trains them, as long as we get women with some
knowledge of women’s work ir a factory. It is not simply a matter
of trying to forecast the need.

Capt. F i s h e r . I am quite sure that we should not lower the
standards of our courses now established. They will be maintainedat as high a standard as we are able to maintain a six weeks’ course.
And if we find that women will be admitted into industry in such
capacities in order to meet the immediate need, we may have a three
months’ course. That will give us three months of training. Only
for such an important field we take large risks with that, and, so far,
we are meeting a certain amount of resistance from the head of
Mrs. Tead’s department. I don’t know what will satisfy the demand
being made. I know one thing that will satisfy the demand: To
throw dow^n the bars in this six weeks’ course; and that we can not do.
1 think perhaps we shall be able to devise a separate course, and I
shall propose such a course to our committee. I am for it, myself;
but I am ready to be guided by the point of view of the wise men at
the head of the committee. Dr. E. M. Hopkins, president of Dart­
mouth College; Mr. Tully; Mr. Clayton, of the Department of
Labor; and Mr. Howe, of the Navy Department, are some of the
members; and I don’t want to commit them before they have made a
decision; but they have discussed the matter informally and are
ready to take a formal decision on a course for women—a three
months’ course—which will give them an industrial background at
the same time. I think perhaps that will meet your emergency need.
D e l e g a t e . I would like to ask Mrs. Tead regarding equal pay for
equal work, when the question of overtime comes in. I f a woman
can produce as much as a man, say, in operating machine tools, sup­
pose it is necessary to work her longer than the regular day, it may
not be desirable to ask her to work overtime. Is it not a fact that
a man might produce more because of his ability to work overtime?
Is not that something in favor of a man’s receiving higher pay?



Mrs. T e a d . That question brings up the matter of the relative flex­
ibility o f women as a working group as compared with that of men,
and I don’t think I want to go on record, as a Government official,
as to just what allowance should be made for that less flexibility as
regards overtime.
Mrs. A n n e H e d g e s T a l b o t , of the New York State Education De­
partment, Albany, N. Y. I would like to express a woman’s point of
view with regard to the kind o f work that women may do in this war
emergency. Would it not be possible for employment managers to
take those who have not the good fortune to be in industrial work,
but for whose assistance they* may have need, into some of these
courses? Don’t give them the certificate if they have not the neces­
sary entrance requirements. Let them go out without the certificate.
Some English colleges give certificates for attendance. They don’t
give diplomas, but they give the training. Let these women who
take the courses prove they are equal to the work.
The C h a i r m a n . Now, we have an interesting question facing the
employment manager himself. W ill anyone tell us his point o f view
regarding the entrance of women into this line of work and the
method of teaching her the job?
Mr. W i l s o n . That is the way we do it. Take the right kind of
persons, intellectually, physically, and morally, and train them; put
them in the shop. But it is a little difficult to keep them in the shop
long enough to learn. It seems to me that these Government agencies
might do something to recruit young women; possibly ask the manu­
facturer to take a few into their shops; possibly let them spend a
little time working in the shop. I would be glad to take a few of
these, and I think very many manufacturers would be glad to do so.
I f we did not use them, we would not lose anything by it.
Mr. A d o l p h F. S e u b e r t , assistant superintendent, National Malle­
able Castings Co., Toledo, Ohio. We encourage our girls in the office
to go through the shops and note the operations in the shop. We
don’t discourage i t ; we encourage i t ; and take the stenographers and
cost accountants through in groups of from three to five. And I
don’t believe any manager would make a mistake if he were to pick
out a few girls and take them through to view the various operations.
I believe that by so doing he could find the girl he wanted for his
assistant. Then he could recommend that girl to Capt. Fisher.
[At this point Dr. Gowin resigned the chair to Mr. Wells, and the
discussion closed.]
Mr. W e l l s . I think the time has come when it is necessary for us
to stop. I am going to ask whether there is anything that occurs
that wTe should do before we close i



F is h e r .


The members of our executive committee are—

Elmer F. Harris, Mesia Machine Co., Pittsburgh, Pa.
Mrs. Jane C. Williams, Plimpton Press, Norwood, Mass.
S. R. Rectanus, American Rolling Mill Co., Middletown, Ohio.
Capt. Boyd Fisher, Ordnance R. C., Washington, D. C.

Iii order that we may get prompt action on the matters which you
have discussed here concerning organization, etc.,. this executive com­
mittee has elected as officers for the ensuing year the follow ing:
President.—Ralph G. Wells, of the E. I. Du Pont de Nemours & Co.
Vice president.— E. H. Fish, of the Norton Co., Worcester, Mass.
Secretary .—Raymond C. Booth, of the Rochester Chamber of Commerce,

Rochester, N. Y.
Treasurer.—W. H. Winans, of the National Carbon Co., Cleveland, Ohio.

That committee will at some early time select an executive secre­
Mr. W e l l s . I think we must stop.
[Convention adjourned.]

A P P E N D IX A .— L A B O R T U R N O V E R S C H E D U L E S O F T H E U N IT E D

In tlie investigation of labor turnover in the United States the two schedules j
presented in the following pages are being used: B. L. S. 160 and B. L. S. 161. !
Schedule B. L. S. 160 is being used in the more extensive study of a large num--;
ber of establishments whose records are such that they are able to furnish only j
a limited amount of information, while schedule B. L. S. 161 is to be used for an j
intensive study of a limited number of establishments that keep their records in j
more detailed form. The establishments selected for the intensive study may
have either an especially favorable condition of labor turnover and may be able !
to present methods and plans for reducing the turnover, or, on the other hand, I
they may be establishments that show a very high percentage of turnover and |
may have no well-defined plans of handling the situation. The two schedules i
B. L.—S. 160


W A S H IN G T O N .


1. Locality______________________________



3. Firm__________________________________________________________________
4. Industry or business------------------------------------------------------------------------------5. Character of goods produced____________________________________________
6. Name and title of person furnishing information__________________________
7. Average number working during the first week of the period covered_______
8. Labor turnover, year ending pay period nearest June 1, 1918:

hired during



number of
days worked
during year.





Laid off.


Entered mili­
tary service.








9. Average number o f male and female employees on force report for one w e e k :

Average number for week ending nearest June 1,


Average number for week ending nearest June 1,1918





10. Who has the power to hire?______
To discharge?_________________
31. May discharges be appealed from?.
If so, to whom?_____________________________________________________
12. Length of continuous employment of employees on the pay roll during the
year ending June 1, 1918:
Employees on the pay roll
June 1,1918.
Period of employment.



Employees separated from
service during year ending
June 1,1918.



One week or less............... .............................
Over 1 week to 2 weeks..................................
Over 2 weeks to 1 month...............................
Over 1 month to 3 months...........................
Over 3 months to 6 months...........................
Over 6 months to 1 vear................................
Over 1 year to 2 years....................................
Over 2 years to 3 years...................................
Over 3 years to 5 years..................................
Over 5 years.....................................................
-------------- 1

13. In what occupations is the labor turnover greatest?.
Give reasons in each case_____________________________________
14. In what occupations is the labor turnover least?__________________
Give reasons in each case_____________________________________
15. How do you define “ absenteeism ” ?___________________________ ___
16. How do you define 44laid off ” ?__________________________________
17. What distinction do you make between “ laid off ” and “ dicharged ” ?.
77920°— 19------ 15



B. L. S. 161.


W A S H IN G T O N .

1. Locality___________________________________________ 2. State___.-------------------------3. Firm____________________________________________________________________________


Industry or business-----------------------------------------------------------------------Character of goods produced-------------------------------------------------------------Name and title of person furnishing information--------------------------------Average number working during the first week of the period covered___
Who has the power to h ire?----------------------1------------------------------------- '
To discharge? ____________________________________________________
9. May discharges be appealed fr o m ? --------------------------------------------------If so, to whom?____________________________________________________
10. Labor turnover, year ending pay period nearest June 1, 1918:


hired dur­
ing year.



of oneman days
during year.






Laid off.











Length of continuous employment of employees on the pay roll nearest
June 1, 1918, by sex and occupation:
Period of employment.


or less.

weeks month months months
to two to one to three to six
to one to two to three to five
weeks. month. months. months. year.

M. F. M. F. M.




















Length of continuous employment of employees separated from service
during year ending June 1, 1918, by sex and occupation:
Period of employment.


or less.

to two

weeks month months months
to one to three to six
to one to two to three to five
month. months. months. year.



























13. Proportion of male and female employees on weekly force report for one



Average number for week
ending nearest June


Average number for week
ending nearest June
1, 1917. '







T o ta l.

Percentage of in­
crease or decrease.

M ale.


14. In what occupations is the labor turnover greatest?____________________
Give reasons in each case____________________________________________
15. In what occupations is the labor turnover least?_______________________
Give reasons in each case____________________________________________
16. How do you define “ absenteeism” ?__________________________________
17. How do you define “ laid of ” ?________________________________________
18. What distinction do you make between “ laid o ff” and “ discharged” ?


Abert, C. F., Eastman Kodak Co., Kodak Park, Rochester, N. Y.
Adams, A. L,, employment manager, U. S. Envelope Co., Worcester Mass.
Adams, C. W ., employment and service manager, Bridgeford Machine Tool
Works, Brighton, N. Y.
Agge, Franklin, manager of works, Republic Metalware Co., Buffalo, N. Y.
Agnew, H. D., employment manager, Western Electric Co., Hawthorne Sta­
tion, Chicago, 111.
Ahara, E. H ., manager, Dodge Manufacturing Co., Mishawaka, Ind.
Albro, Mrs. W . L., Independence Inspection Bureau, 137 South Fifth Street,
Philadelphia, Pa.
Albro, W m . Lu, engineer, Independence Inspection Bureau, 137 South Fifth
Street, Philadelphia, Pa.
Alden, R. H., employment manager, Denby Motor Truck Co., Detroit, Mich.
Aldrich, H. J., employment manager, Spencer Kellogg & Sons (In c.), Buffalo,
N. Y.
Alford, L. P„ editor, Industrial Management Magazine , 6 East Thirty-ninth
Street, New York City.
Allan, A. Maude, assistant employment manager, Hickey Freeman Co., 1155
Clinton Avenue North, Rochester, N. Y.
Allen, Chas. T., manager employment department, Roessler Hasslacher
Chemical Co., Perth Amboy, N. J.
Allen, C. W ., Quartermaster Corps representative, 1028 Sixteenth Street N W .,
Washington, D. C.
Allen, FrankUn S., Barron G. Collier ( Inc.), New York City.
Allen, Herbert W ., the Allen Studios, 156 East Main Street, Rochester, N. Y.
Allen, L. B., employment assistant, Solvay Process Co., Detroit, Mich.
Allen, Luther E., assistant works manager, Goodman Manufacturing Co.,
4834 South Halstead Street, Chicago, 111.
Almy, C. E., employment manager, Columbian Rope Co., Auburn, N. Y.
Armstrong, E. E., employment manager, Bausch & Lomb Optical Co., Roches­
ter. N. Y.
Arnold, D. D., labor supervisor, Fairbanks, Morse & Co., Beloit, W is.
Arnold, B. H., General Electric Co., Erie, Pa.
Artzberger, A. L., shop manager, H. K. Porter Co., Pittsburgh, Pa.
Asbrand, H. W ., employment manager, Eastman Kodak Co., Camera Works,
Rochester, N. Y.
Ash, W illiam C„ principal, Philadelphia Trades School, 828 Wynnewood
Road, W est Philadelphia, Pa.
Axtell, E. EL, secretary and manager, Masonic Employment Bureau, Buffalo,
N. Y.

Bacon, Helen, director, mayor’s Americanization Committee o f Cleveland,
226 City Hall, Cleveland, Ohio.
Baer, A. K., general manager, Strouse Baer Co., Baltimore, Md.




Baker, W . E., employment manager, Dayton Engineering Laboratories,
Dayton, Ohio.
Barker, Jas. P., president, Mechanics Institute, Rochester, N. Y.
Barnes, Charles B., director, Bureau of Employment, New York City.
Barrows, W illard P., manager, Emerson Co., 2015 Land Title Building, Phildelphia, Pa.
Bartlett, B., employment manager, Glenn L. Martin Co., 16720 S t Clair Ave­
nue, Cleveland, Ohio.
Batsford, A. H., employment manager, Utica Steam & Mohawk Valley Cotton
Mills, Utica, N. Y.
Battis, Joseph T. W ., employment manager, Standard Woven Fabric Co.,
Walpole, Mass.
Baynum, P. H., manager of employment, Wellman-Seaver-Morgan Co., 7000
Central Avenue, Cleveland, Ohio.
Beard, C. R., employment manager, Sears, Roebuck & Co., Chicago, 111.
Belcher, Geo. M., employment manager, W . H. McElwain Co., Manchester,
N. H.
Bellows, W . S., general manager, Walden-Worcester (In c.), Worcester, Mass.
Bemis, Wm . C., employment manager, Wright W ire Co., Worcester, Mass.
Beres, A. P., employment supervisor, American Brass Co., 446 Military Road,
Buffalo, N. Y.
Berner, G. P., labor supervisor, National Aniline & Chemical Co. (In c.),
Buffalo, N. Y.
Bertram, J., superintendent, Rochester Spectacle Manufacturing Co., 242
Andrews Street, Rochester, N. Y.
Berwick, Clara W ., Berwick & Smith, Norwood, Mass.
Birchall, Geo. W ., employment manager, Willys-Overland Co., Toledo, Ohio.
Bitner, L. S., employment manager, E. I. du Pont de Nemours & Co., Hopewell Works, City Point, Ya.
Bixby, A. S., manager, National Malleable Castings Co., Indianapolis, Ind.
Black, Corwin, manager real estate, American Express Co., 65 Broadw ay
New York City.
Blackman, W illiam , director of labor, Shipping Board, Washington, D. C.
Blighton, B. C., employment manager, American Car & Foundry Co., Depew,
N. Y.
Bloomfield, Meyer, head of industrial-service department, Emergency Fleet
Corporation, Washington, D. C.
Bockstedt, E. B., employment superintendent, Washburn-Crosby Co., Michigan
and Ganson Streets, Buffalo, N. Y.
Boger, Dr. C. F., employment and medical director, Continental Motors Cor­
poration, Detroit, Mich.
Booth, Raymond C., secretary employment managers' group, Rochester Cham­
ber of Commerce, Rochester, N. Y.
Boughter, F. J., employment manager, Electric Auto Lite Co., Toledo, Ohio.
Boulton, G. C., factory employment manager, Larkin Co., Buffalo, N. Y.
Boulware, A. M., manager civic and industrial department, Cincinnati Cham­
ber of Commerce, Cincinnati, Ohio.
Boyd, Joseph B. D., employment manager, Carborundum Co., Niagara Palls,
N. Y.
Brading, C. M., superintendent of safety, Wisconsin Steel Co., Chicago, 111.
Brady, E. L., employment and welfare manager, Ferro Machine & Foundry
Co., Cleveland, Ohio.
Brasher, Philip, employment manager, Braden Copper Co., Chile Exploration
Co., 120 Broadway, New York City.



Breed, Howard, factory manager, Crane & Breed Manufacturing Co., Cin­
cinnati, Ohio.
Breeze, A. B., vice president, Cincinnati Ball Crank Co., Cincinnati, Ohio.
Brooks, Chas. S., assistant, industrial department, Emergency Fleet Corpora­
t o r Washington, D. C.
Brown, F. H., sales manager, Davis Machine Tool Co., 305 St. Paul Street,
Rochester, N. Y.
Brown, F. W ., employment manager, Lincoln Motor Co., Detroit, Mich.
Brown, H. W ., employment manager, National India Rubber Co., Bristol, R. I.
Brundage, Edward, employment manager, Columbia Graphophone Co., Bridge­
port, Conn.
Bryant, P. F., employment manager, Department of Labor, Washington, D. C.
Burnett, A. V., employment manager, Butterworth-Judson Corporation, New­
ark, N. J.
Burnham, R. F., employment supervisor, Hercules Powder Co., Kenvil, N. X
Burrows, F. W ., editor, National Industrial Conference Board, 15 Beacon
Street, Boston, Mass.
Burton, E. R., engineer, industrial-relations staff, Independence Inspection
Bureau, 137 South Fifth Street, Philadelphia, Pa.
Bush, S. L., assistant treasurer, Chemical Paper Manufacturing Co., Holyoke,

Cameron, W . H., general manager, National Safety Council, 208 South La­
Salle -Street, Chicago, 111.
Campbell, J. Clyde, employment manager, Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co.,
Youngstown, Ohio.
Capels, E. H., employment department, Halcomb Steel Co., Syracuse, N. Y.
Carman, E. S., secretary and chief engineer, Cleveland Osborn Manufacturing
Co., Cleveland, Ohio.
Carpenter, A. V. W ., employment manager, Linderman Machine Co., Muske­
gon, Mich.
Carr, William L., supervisor of labor, W right W ire Co., Worcester, Mass.
Carson, Chas. M., industrial manager, Cadillac Motor Car Co., Detroit, Mich.
Carson, W . R., assistant chief engineer, Grasselli Chemical Co., Cleveland,
Cartii, E. Lu, assistant superintendent, The American Brass Co., Buffalo, N. Y.
Case, E. B., employment manager, New Departure Manufacturing Co., Bris­
tol, Conn.
Causeman, Jos. J., employment manager, C. Kenyon Co., Brooklyn, N. Y.
Cetti, Carl, head of service department, Bethlehem Shipbuilding Corporation
(L td .), Elizabeth, N. J.
Chadsey, Mildred, Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio.
Chance, Albert, superintendent of factory, S. S. White Dental Manufactur­
ing Co., Philadelphia, P*»
Chandler, H. R., auditor, Washington Steel & Ordnance Co., Washington,
D. C.
Chapman, E. D., employment manager, R. R. Donnelley & Sons Co., 731 Ply­
mouth Place, Chicago, 111.
Chesney, J. A., employment manager, General Electric Co., Pittsfield, Mass.
Chiesa, M. Joseph, Department of Labor, Hotel Gordon, Sixteenth Street
N W ., Washington, D. C.
Clark, J. P., Rochester Button Co., Rochester, N. Y .



Clark, Montague A., employment supervisor, B. I. du Pont de Nemours & Co.,
Arlington, N. J.
Clarke, Chas. K., superintendent of employment, Smith & Wesson, Spring­
field, Mass.
Clayton, C. A., manager employment bureau, Alan Wood Iron & Steel Co.,
Conshohocken, Pa.
Clayton, Charles T., assistant director general of employment, United States
Employment Service, Department of Labor, Washington, D. C.
Clearwater, Geo. W ., superintendent labor and safety, Halcomb Steel Co.,
Syracuse, N. Y.
Clemens, W . T., superintendent, State Employment Bureau, Syracuse, N. Y.
Coburn, John R., employment manager, Corona Typewriter Co., Groton, N. Y.
Cochrane, C. J., supervisor of labor, American Car & Foundry Co* Detroit,
Coleman, Paul, recording secretary, Employment Managers' Association,
Pittsburgh, Pa.
Coleman, Robert F., employment manager, Pierce Arrow Motor Car Co*
Buffalo, N. Y.
Collins, Chas. W „ General Electric Co., Schenectady, N. Y.
Colnon, R. T., welfare director, The Standard Parts Co., Perfection Spring
Division, Cleveland, Ohio.
Cone, Reine J., nurse, Taylor Instrument Cos., Rochester, N. Y.
Conley, William, employment department, International Arms & Fuze Co*
P. O. Box 1846, New York City.
Consler, R. E., employment manager, Art in Buttons (In c.), Rochester, N. Y.
Conway, T. E., employment manager, Ingersoll-Rand Co., Phillipsburg, N. J.
Cooke, Morris L., Emergency Fleet Corporation, 1319 F Street N W „ W ash ­
ington, D. C.
Cooke, R. O., treasurer, Jos. Bancroft & Sons Co., Wilmington, Del.
Cooper, W alter G., secretary, Atlanta Chamber of Commerce, Atlanta, Ga.
Corning, H. L., superintendent, Solvay Process Co., Detroit, Mich.
Cornist, C., employment supervisor, Pratt & Letch worth Co., 189 Tona wanda
Street, Buffalo, N. Y.
Costello, H. F., employment manager, Halcomb Steel Co., Syracuse, N. Y.
Courtright, Mrs. Jocelyn, employment department, Nordyke & Marmon Co*
Indianapolis, Ind.
Cousins, Thos., superintendent, Passaic Cotton Mills, Passaic, N. J.
Croal, Madge, employment manager, Bastian Bros. Co., 69 Mount Hope Ave­
nue, Rochester, N. Y.
Cross, Maurice F., welfare superintendent, Grasselli Chemical Co., Cleveland,
Crossley, J. H., superintendent, Pass & Seymour (In c.), Solvay, N. Y.
Crouch, F. M., cashier, Eastman Kodak Co., 348 State Street, Rochester, N. Y.
Crowell, Edith H ., woman’s welfare department, T. A. Gillespie Co., Mor­
gan, N. J.
Cullen, C. P., safety manager, Gould Coupler Co.*, Depew, N. Y.
Culver, Chester M., general manager, Employers* Association of Detroit, De­
troit, Mich.
Currie, Y. R., head of safety-efficiency work, The Texas Co., Houston, Tex.
Curtell, L., office manager, American Can Co., Boston, Mass.
Curtis, G. H * employment manager, Semet-Solvay Co., Syracuse, N. X .



Dahlgren, C. J., chief clerk, National Malleable Castings Co., 2610 W est
Twenty-fifth Place, Chicago, 111.
Darrow, M. S., manager, The Barber Asphalt Paving Co., Madison, 111.
Davidson Jas. L., secretary and treasurer, Alabama Coal Operators’ Associa­
tion, Birmingham, Ala.
Davidson, Margaret, secretary to director, Women’s Educational and Indus­
trial Union, 264 Boylston Street, Boston, Mass.
Davis, Albert S., superintendent of employment, National Cloak and Suit Co.,
207 W est Twenty-fourth Street, New York City.
Davis, Franklin L., assistant general shop superintendent, Northwest Steel
Co., Portland, Oreg.
Davis, Ruth M., employment and welfare agent, Aluminum Castings Co., 1095
Niagara Street, Buffalo, N. Y,
Davoran, M. F., employment manager, Crane & Breed Manufacturing Co.,
Cincinnati, Ohio.
Day, Carl, assistant industrial supervisor, Spanish River Pulp & Paper Mills
(L td .), Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.
Day, Paul W ., welfare manager, Pennsylvania Seaboard Steel Corporation,
Philadelphia, Pa.
Dean, Harriet M., assistant superintendent, State Employment Bureau, 387
East Main Street, Rochester, N. Y.
T>e Mocher, R. C., employment manager, National Brass Manufacturing Co.,
193 Mill Street, Rochester, N. Y.
Dickenscher, A. A., employment manager, Buffalo Foundry & Machine Co.,
Buffalo, N. Y.
Dickson, Robert J., industrial manager, Spanish River Pulp & Paper Milis
(L td .), Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario.
Dillon, Anthony F., employment manager, Barrett Co., Philadelphia, Pa.
Doerr, Josef, employment manager, Leeds & Northrup Co., 4901 Stenton
Avenue, Philadelphia, Pa.
Donning, W . H., employment manager, Bridgeport Brass Co., Bridgeport,
Dooley, R. C., manager labor department, The Standard Parts Co., Hickox
Building, Cleveland, Ohio.
Doolittle, Capt. F. H ., employment officer, Watertown Arsenal, Watertown,
Doran, H. F., employment manager, Saco-Lowell Shops, Lowell, Mass.
Doucet, A. A., employment manager, Laclede-Christy Clay Products Co., St.
Louis, Mo.
Dow, George C., superintendent, Sikes Chair Co., 500 Clinton Street, Buffalo,
N. Y.
Downey, Maurice, superintendent, Whitcomb Blaisdell Machine Tool Co.,
134 Gold Street, Worcester, Mass.
Downing, George, employment manager, W . M. Lowney Co., Boston, Mass.
Dryden, E. A., employment manager, Packard Motor Car Co., Detroit, Mich.
Duffy, George A., efficiency engineer, Stein-Bloch Co., Rochester, N. Y.
Dunn, W ., superintendent welfare and labor, Republic Rubber Co., Youngs­
town, Ohio.
] Hitcher, George S., employment manager, H. H. Franklin Manufacturing Co.,
Syracuse, N. Y .



Edholm, 0 . Lu, executive secretary, National Americanization Commission,
25 West Thirty-ninth Street, New York City.
Edwards, R. W ., employment manager, The American T o d W orks Co., Cin­
cinnati, Ohio.
Egge, K arl F., employment manager, L. Bamberger & Co., Newark, N. J.
Ellerd, H. G., law department, Armour & Co., Union Stockyards, Chicago, 111.
Elliott, W alter
employment manager, American Tube & Stamping Steel
Co., Bridgeport, Conn.
Ellithorpe, John W ., assistant employment manager, Pierce Arrow Motor
Car Co., 1695 Elmwood Avenue, Buffalo, N. Y.
Embler, H. W ., superintendent, Coe Stapley Manufacturing CoM Bridgeport,
Emmet, Boris, special agent United States Bureau of Labor Statistics, W ash­
ington, D. C.
Erickson, John E., employment supervisor, Norton Co., Worcester, Mass.
Esch, C. W ., employment manager, Continental Can Co., 4606 Grand Avenue,
Chicago, 111.
Evans, F. C., employment manager, American Ship Building Co., Lorain
Plant, Lorain, Ohio.

Farnham, Dwight T., industrial engineer, Third National Bank Building,
St. Louis, Mo.
Farra, Howard L., A. B. Kirschbaum & Co., Philadelphia, Pa.
Farrell, J. El, chief of employment bureau, Republic Iron & Steel Co.,
Youngstown, Ohio.
Fennell, D. D., manager, Belmont Packing & Rubber Co., Buffalo, N. Y.
Fischer, F. W ., general superintendent, Liquid Carbonic Co., Chicago, 111.
Fish, E. H ., employment manager, Norton Co., Worcester, Mass.
Fisher, Capt. Boyd, Ord. R. C., supervisor Government courses, 606 Council
of National Defense, Washington, D. C.
Fisher, F. W ., employment and safety manager, Rochester Railway & Light
Co., Rochester, N. Y.
Fitch, John A., industrial editor, Survey Magazine, 112 East Nineteenth
Street, New York City.
Fitterer, J. W .t chief clerk, E. I. du Pont de Nemours & Co., Parlin, N. J.
FitzGerald, Edward, employment manager, Bastian Bros. Co., Rochester, N. Y.
Fleisher, Alexander, supervisor welfare division, Metropolitan Life Insurance
Co., 1 Madison Avenue, New York City.
Fleming, R. Bruce, supervisor employment and welfare, Burroughs Adding
Machine Co., Detroit, Mich.
Ford, Dr. C. E., director of medicine, General Chemical Co., 25 Broad Street,
New York City.
Forster, H. W ., general manager, Independence Inspection Bureau, 137 South
Fifth Street, Philadelphia, Pa.
Fosdich, F., president, Fitchburg Steam Engine Co., Fitchburg, Mass.
Fosdick, A. H., assistant superintendent of labor, Bethlehem Steel Co., Beth­
lehem, Pa.
Foster, R. T ., employment manager, Springfield Aircraft Corporation, Spring­
field, Mass.
Fouhy, C. E., employment manager, Curtiss Aeroplane & Motor Corporation,
Buffalo, N. Y,



Fowler, R. L., plant manager, Barber Asphalt Paving Co., Perth Amboy, N. J.
Fox, W . R., proprietor, Fox Machine Co., Jackson, Mich.
Frankel, Emil, special agent, United States Bureau of Labor Statistics,
Washington, D. C.
Freiburger, Adam, general superintendent, Lackawanna Bridge Co., Buffalo,
N. Y.
Fry, Albert, assistant employment manager, New York Shipbuilding Co.,
Camden, N. J.
Fullerton, Hugh, service director, H. Black & Co., Cleveland, Ohio.
Fulton, Paul L., employment manager, Standard Underground Cable Co.,
Perth Amboy, N. J.

Gaeger, E. P., manager, service department, International Correspondence
Schools, Scranton, Pa.
Gallagher, Rachel S., women’s employment, State Employment Office, City
Hall, Room No. 108, Cleveland, Ohio.
Ganno.p, Victor, manager, Employers* Association of Chicago, 139 North Clark
Street, Chicago, 111.
Gara, T. J., employment manager, International Harvester Co. of New Jersey,
McCormick Twine Mill, Chicago, 111.
Gaylord, Gladys, service secretary, Clinton W ire Cloth Co., Clinton, Mass.
Geek, A. A., superintendent, Colburn Machine Tool Co., Franklin, Pa.
Gibbs, Raymond B., secretary, Lockport Board of Commerce, Lockport, N. Y.
Gilchrist, L. J., industrial manager, Morgan & Wright, Detroit, Mich.
Gill, J. S., secretary, manufacturers' bureau, Lockport Board of Commerce,
Lockport, N. Y.
Gillie, Robert B., employment manager, E. I. du Pont de Nemours & Co„
Haskell, N. J.
Gilliland, W . D., supervisor, welfare and employment, Selby Shoe Co., Ports­
mouth, Ohio.
Gleim, F., employment and welfare manager, Detroit Pressed Steel Co., De­
troit, Mich.
Goldstein, Isadore, secretary, war emergency courses, University of Rochester,
Rochester, N. Y.Goodman, W illiam , assistant to vice president, Worthington Pump & Machine
Corporation, 115 Broadway, New York City.
Gorbett, F. J., employment manager, Chandler Motor Car Co., East One hun­
dred and thirty-first Street, New York City.
Gould, Ernest, industrial engineer, Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co., Youngs­
town, Ohio.
Gould, Morris, employment manager, Electric Cable Co., Bridgeport, Conn.
Gowln, E. B., New York University School of Commerce, Accounts, and
Finance, Washington Square East, New York City.
Graef, Max, employment manager, International Harvester Co. of New Jersey,
1734 Fullerton Avenue, Chicago, 111.
Graeff, Paul D., purchasing agent, Coatesville Boiler Works, Coatesville, Pa.
Grant, David J., employment manager, Campbell, Wyant & Cannon Foundry
Co., Muskegon, Mich.
Green, C. L., director, employment department, Consolidation Coal Co., 212
W atson Building, Fairmount, W . Va.
Greene, T. O., employment manager, Graton & Knight Manufacturing Co.,
Worcester, Mass.



Gressle, E. W ., employment and welfare superintendent, Warner & Swasey,
5801 Carnegie Avenue, Cleveland, Ohio.
Grieves, W . A., assistant secretary, The Jeffrey Manufacturing Co., Columbus,
Griffith, P. Jeannette, director, research department, Duffy Powers Co.,
Rochester, N. T.
Groves, J. T., The Texas Co., 17 Battery Place, New York City.
Grzella, Paul M., employment manager, Cutter Desk Co., 14 Churchill Street,
Buffalo, N. Y.
Gunn, Miss M. L., secretary, Rochester Machine Industries, 601 Wilder
Building; Rochester, N. Y.
Gurley, Franklin C., production engineer, National Aniline & Chemical Co.
(In c.), Marcus Hook, Pa.

Hackett, Allen F., employment manager, Rochester Button Co., 800 State
Street, Rochester, N. Y.
H all, Robert, treasurer, American District Steam Co., North Tonawanda, N. Y.
Hall, S. P., employment manager, Morgan Engineering Co., Alliance, Ohio.
Hallin, L. C. E., employment manager, State free employment office, 8 Kneeland Street, Boston, Mass. <.
Halliwell, T. D., jr., superintendent, Barrett Co., Thirty-sixth and Gray
Streets, Philadelphia, Pa.
Halpin, W ., employment manager, Eastman Kodak Co., Premo Works,
Rochester, N. Y.
Hanley, Miss E. R., supervisor juvenile department, State employment bu­
reau, 219 Franklin Street, Rochester, N. Y.
Hanlon, John C., employment manager, International Harvester Co. of New
Jersey, Osborne Twine Mill, Auburn, N. Y.
Hanrahan, D., manager social service, Wilson & Co., Union Stock Yards,
Chicago, 111.
Harris, Elmer F., superintendent of labor and safety, Mesta Machine Co.,
Pittsburgh, Pa.
Haugh, A. T., employment manager, King Sewing Machine Co., Buffalo, N. Y.
Hayden, A. P., employment manager, National Carbon Co., Niagara Falls,
N. Y.
Haylett, H. H., director employment and welfare, Benjamin Electric Manu­
facturing Co., Chicago, 111.
Hazleton, R. T „ works manager, Cincinnati Milling Machine Co., Cincinnati,
Hebble, C. R., executive secretary, Cincinnati Chamber of Commerce, Cin­
cinnati, Ohio.
Heimsoth, L. F., employment manager, Felt & Tarrant Manufacturing Co.,
1717 North Paulina Street, Chicago, 111.
Hellenschmidt, Miss R., employment manager, Michaels-Stern & Co., 317
Child Street, Rochester, N. Y.
Helton, W . R., manager employment department, elevated railroads, Chi­
cago, 111.
Hemphill, James, employment agent, Carnegie Steel Co., Duquesne, Pa.
Henderson, W . L., production department, American International Ship­
building Corporation, Hog Island, Pa.
Hennessy, M. M., employment manager, Corn Products Refining Co., Argo, 111.
Herrod, Herbert E., president, Mahoning Valley Employers’ Association, 716
Stambaugh Building, Youngstown, Ohio.



Herzberg, G., supervisor of labor, General Electric Co., Harrison, N. J.
Hess, H. L., general manager, Hess Steel Corporation, Baltimore, Md.
Hickman, R. W ., jr., employment secretary, Y. M. C. A., Philadelphia, Pa.
Hicks, Robert J., assistant superintendent, State public employment bureau,
120 St. Paul Street, Rochester, N. Y.
Hicks, T. K ., manager, Manufacturers* Employment Bureau, Rockford, 111.
Hill, Walter C., vice president, Retail Credit Co., Healey Building, Atlanta, Ga.
Hine, Charlotte, manager of welfare, Hudson Motor Car Co., Detroit, Mich.
Hirth. Miss E. P., chief, information department, Intercollegiate Bureau of
Occupations, 19 W est Forty-fourth Street, New York City.
Hoadley, Horace G., treasurer, Waterbury Tool Co., Waterbury, Conn.
Hodges, T. V., safety engineer, Semet-Solvay Co., Syi*acuse, N. Y.
Hoffmenter, Roy L., employment chief, Bethlehem Steel Co., Bethlehem, Pa.
Hogan, B. J., superintendent of safety and employment, Brier H ill Sted Co*
Youngstown, Ohio.
Hogg, Leon C., employment manager, American La France Fire Engine Co.,
Elmira, N. Y.
Holdcraft, Charles A., employment manager, Welsbach Co., Gloucester, N. J.
Holland, Joseph A., supervisor of employment, American Sugar Refining Co*
90 W est Street, New York City.
Hood, M. E., employment manager, Chester Ship Cambridge Co., Chester, Pa.
Hoskins, Jean, Clinton W ire Cloth Co., Clinton, Mass.
House, Norman R., employment agent, Semet-Solvay Co., Syracuse, N. Y.
Houze, J. O., employment manager, National Malleable Castings Co., Indian­
apolis, Ind.
Howard, Earl D * director of labor, Hart, Schaffner & Marx, Chicago, 111.
Howes, G. W ., general superintendent, Philo D. Beckwith Est. (In c.),
Dowagiac, Mich.
Hubbell, N. D., industrial engineer, National Carbon Co., Niagara Falls,
N. Y.
Hubbell, Roy S., manager, Bowman Hotel Corporation, 405 Lexington Avenue,
New York City.
Huey, Katherine, supervisor of instruction, Central District Telephone Co.,
Pittsburgh, Pa.
Hughes, E. J., manager sales training department, B. F. Goodrich Co., Akron,
Hulverson, G. R., employment manager, Burroughs Adding Machine Co.,
Detroit, Mich.
Hummell, W . H., superintendent. Grant Motor Car Corporation, Cleveland,
Hurter, C. E., division superintendent, Dennison Manufacturing Co., Framing­
ham, Mass.
Husband, A. A., superintendent women’s department, State Employment
Bureau, 387 East Main Street, Rochester. N. Y.
Hyndman, George B., employment bureau, Newburgh Chamber o f Commerce,
Newburgh, N. Y.

Immel, R. W ., safety inspector, Baltimore Copper Smelting & Rolling Co.,
Baltimore, Md.
Ingersoll. George B * assistant general manager, Fairbanks, Morse & Co.,
Beloit, Wis.



Jackson, A. C., works manager, Miller Lock Co., 4523 Tacony Street, Phila­
delphia, Pa.
Jackson, Florence, director appointment bureau, Women’s Educational and
Industrial Union, 264 Boylston Street, Boston, Mass.
Jackson, Newton, assistant district production manager, Emergency Fleet
Corporation, 826 Weightman Building, Philadelphia, Pa.
Jansen* H. H., secretary and treasurer, Tri-City Manufacturers* Association,
Moline, 111.
Jefferis, S. E., employment manager, Pennsylvania Railroad Co., Buffalo,
N. Y.
Johnson, A. E ., United Press Association, World Building, New York City.
Johnson, C. G., employment manager, Quaker City Rubber Co., Wissinoming,
Philadelphia, Pa.
Johnson, W . F., employment manager, Taylor Instrument Cos., Rochester,
N. Y.
Johnston, Paul I., cost engineer, Barrett Co., 17 Battery Place, New York
Jones, AMwyth C., employment manager, Halcomb Steel Co., Syracuse, N. Y.
Jones, Arthur F., employment and welfare manager, Jersey City Chamber
of Commerce, Jersey City, N. J.
Jones, A. H.. superintendent, American Wood Working Machinery Co., 591
Lyell Avenue, Rochester, N. Y.
Jones, Eugene Kinckle, executive secretary, National League on Urban Con­
ditions among Negroes,.2303 Seventh Avenue, New York City.
Jones, Ernest W . J., employment supervisor, Crosby Co., Buffalo, N. Y.
Jones, F. W ., superintendent, International Harvester Co. of New Jersey,
Auburn, N. Y.
Jones, Mark M., supervisor of personnel, Thomas A. Edison Industries,
Orange, N. J.
Jones, W . B., manager, Rochester Spectacle Manufacturing Co., 242 Andrews
Street, Rochester, N. Y.
Jones, W illiam H ., superintendent, Crosby Co., Buffalo, N. Y.
Judson, L. R., employment manager, Timken Detroit Axle Co., Detroit, Mich.
Junkin, J. L., safety director, La Belle Iron Works, Steubenville, Ohio.

Kauffman, T. J., treasurer, Square D. Co., 1400 Rivard Street, Detroit, Mich.
Kaulbach, George C., employment department, Watervliet Arsenal, W est
Troy, N. Y.
Keith, d a r e M., employment manager, Advance Rumely Co., Battle Creek,
Keith, James P., office manager, George E. Keith Co., Campello, Mass.
Keith, Roger, assistant treasurer, Brockton Webbing Co., Brockton, Mass.
Keller, L. M., assistant employment manager. Rochester Railway & Light Co.,
Rochester, N. Y.
Kelley, W illiam D., general superintendent of meters, Consolidated Gas Co.,
of New York, 130 East Fifteenth Street, New York City.
Kelly, Roy W ., director. Bureau of Vocational Guidance, Harvard University,
87 Concord Avenue, Cambridge, Mass.
Kelly, S. T „ supervisor service department, Union Carbide Co., Niagara
Falls, N. Y .



Kendall, Harry B., superintendent. M. W . Kellogg Co., Jersey City, N. J.
Kennedy, A. T., employment manager, Forbensen Axle Co., 1115 Bast One
hundred and. fifty-second Street, Cleveland, Ohio.
Kennedy, Dudley R., industrial manager, American International Ship­
building Corporation, Hog Island, Philadelphia, Pa.
Kersburg, H. E. V., employment mauager, R. H. Macy & Co., New York City.
Kershaw, S. H., assistant supervisor engineer, Independence Inspection Bu­
reau, 137 South Fifth Street, Philadelphia, Pa.
Kershner, I. U., special clerk, Pennsylvania Railroad Co., 351 Broad Street
Station, Philadelphia, Pa.
Kibby, W . J., head of department of personnel development, C. E. Knoeppel &
Co., 101 Park Avenue, New York City.
Kilborn, Geo. W ., employment manager, Wilson
&Co., Union Stockyards,
Chicago, 111.
Kimball, Edw. A., secretary, Georgia Manufacturers* Association, 604 Cham­
ber of Commerce Building, Atlanta, Ga.
Kimber, W . M. C., manager, Leeds & Northrup, 4901 Stenton Avenue, Phila­
delphia, Pa.
King, Edith Shatto, manager, National Social Workers* League, 130 Eiist
Twenty-second Street, New York City.
Kinney, P. W ., employment manager, Gleason Works, 1000 University Avenue,
Rochester, N. Y.
Kirk, W illiam F., special agent, U. S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, Washing­
ton, D. C.
Kitson, W . R., superintendent of labor and safety, Solvay Process Co., De­
troit, Mich.
Kline, A. L ., employment manager, International Harvester Co. of New Jersey,
McCormick Works, Chicago, 111.
Kobick, IL G., superintendent of employment, Commonwealth Edison Co., 72
W est Adams Street, Chicago,. 111.
Koch, Edw. H., superintendent, Republic Metalware Co., Buffalo, N. Y.
Koenig, H. J., employment manager, Armour & Co., Chicago, 111.
Kolb, Chas. J., employment manager, Pierce-Arrow Motor Car Co., Buffalo,
N. Y.
Kraemer, E. H., employment manager, Dayton Metal Products Co.. Dayton,
Kreglow, W . M., employment manager, New Jersey Zinc Co., Palmerton, Pa.
Kutz, Frank E „ assistant to manager, Ingersoll-Rand Co., Phillipsburg, N. J.

Lackey, Robert A., vice president, Payson Manufacturing Co., 2920 W est Jack
son Boulevard, Chicago, 111.
Lamberton, H. H., superintendent of personnel, Champlain Silk Mills, White
hall, N. Y.
Lane, Nathan, jr., auditor, C. Kenyon Co., Brooklyn, N. Y.
Lange, F. W ., employment manager, Grant Motor Car Corporation, Cleveland,
Lavery, Teresa, industrial nurse, Rochester Spectacle Manufacturing Co.,
242 Andrews Street, Rochester, N. Y.
Lawrence, Chas. M., manager, Thomas G. Plant Co., Boston, Mass. .
Leavenworth, H. T., general manager, Bridgeport Testing Laboratories,
Bridgeport, Conn.
Leavenworth, John H ., department head, Wallace & Sons Manufacturing Co.,
Wallingford, Conn.



Lewis, C. J., employment manager, Barcalo Manufacturing Co., Buffalo, N. Y.
Lewis, L. R., employ., Taylor Instrument Cos., Rochester, N. Y.
Lewis, R., employment manager, Pfaudler Co., Lincoln Park, Rochester, N. Y.
Lewis, Rachel, employment manager, Lewis Manufacturing Co., Walpole,
Libbey, L. W ., employment selector, W illiam Filene’s Sons Co., Boston, Mass.
Libby, H. I., Saeo-Lowell Shops, Biddeford, Me.
Lightner, Jacob, director, employment bureau, Pennsylvania Department of
Labor and Industry, State Capitol, Harrisburg, Pa.
Lingemann, E. F., supervisor of labor, Hudson Motor Car Co., Detroit, Mich.
Little, Jas., employment manager, Westinghouse Air Brake Co., Wilmerding, Pa.
Lorent, Theo., assistant superintendent, M. H. Birge & Sons Co., Buffalo, N. Y.
Lott, M. R., manager personnel department, Sperry Gyroscope Co., Brooklyn,
N. Y.
Lovejoy, P. W ., general manager, Eastman Kodak Co., Rochester, N. Y.
Lunt, H. S., employment manager, Gallaudet Aircraft Corporation, East
Greenwich, R. I.
Luther, W . L., manager service department, The Cleveland Metal Products
Co., 7609 Platte Avenue, Cleveland, Ohio.
Lyle, J. D., employment manager, National Malleable Castings Co., Cleveland,

McCarthy, Elizabeth, labor department, Dunn & McCarthy, Auburn, N. Y.
McCauless, C., employment manager, Potomac Shipbuilding Co., Quantico, Va.
McCure, Charles E., assistant manager, Standard Underground Cable Co^
Perth Amboy, N. J.
McHugh, Edw. P., E. I. du Pont de Nemours & Co., Wilmington, Del.
McKenny, J. H., assistant superintendent, Premo Works, Eastman Kodak Co.,
Rochester, N. Y.
McLaughlin, A. L., employment manager, Jones & Laughlin Steel Co*,
Pittsburgh, Pa.
Mc^Laughlin, C. R., employment and welfare manager, Dayton-Wright Airplane
Co., Dayton, Ohio.
McNamara, Mrs. W illiam E., field secretary, National Civic Federation, 20
Ashburton Place, Boston, Mass.
McParland, J. T., general superintendent, Ross Gear & Tool Co., Lafayette,
MacArthur, Mrs. L. B., welfare department, Armour & Co., Chicago, UL
MacArthur, W . S., office manager, Armour & Co., Chicago, 111.
MacBain, J. T., assistant superintendent, Union Carbide Co., Niagara Falls,
N. Y.
Macerod, B. C., superintendent’s private secretary, International Harvester
Co. of New Jersey, McCormick Works, Chicago, 111.
Mackay, F. T., employment manager, Timken Boiler Bearing Co., Canton,
MacLennan, J. F., assistant to president, Yermont Farm Machine Co., Bellows
Falls, Yt.
Madsen, H. T., director of employment, Westinghouse Electric & Manufac­
turing Co., Essington Works, Essington, Pa.
Maguire, James H ., assistant superintendent, Saco-Lowell Shops, Lowell,



Magunder, H ., secretary, Johnson Shipyard Corporation, Main Harbor, New
York City.
Mahoney, Miss Florence M., manager, State Employment Bureau, Buffalo,
N. Y.
Mallett, H. K., employment manager, Crane Co., Bridgeport, Conn.
Malpas, C. O., supervisor of labor, Sherwin-Williams Co., Cleveland, Ohio.
Mann, Dr. Kristine, supervisor, Industrial Service Section, Women’s Branch,
Ordnance Department, Continental Hotel, Washington, D. C.
Marsh, D. C., employment manager, Gas Defense Plant, Long Island City.
Marsh. Prank M., superintendent of employment, Walworth Manufacturing
Co., Boston, Mass.
Marsh, R. J., department supervisor, Wallace & Sons Manufacturing Co.,
Wallingford, Conn.
Martin, G. P., employment manager, E. B. Badger & Sons Co., 73 Pitts Street,
Boston, Mass.
Mason, Charles O., employment manager, Frankford Arsenal, Philadelphia, Pa.
Mason, H., manager of employment and instruction, Pennsylvnia and New
Jersey Shipbuilding Cos., Gloucester, N. J.
Mason, Samuel R., secretary, Manufacturers’ & Wholesale Merchants* Board,
Cleveland, Ohio.
Mason, W illiam B., employment manager, National Aniline & Chemical Co.
(In c.), Marcus Hook, Pa.
Meader, John R., manager labor and service department, Brighton Mills,
Passaic, N. J.
Meech, S. D., employment manager, Yawman & Erbe Manufacturing Co.,
Rochester, N. Y .
Meeker, Royal, Commissioner United States Bureau of Labor Statistics,
Washington, D. CL
Melaas, Esther, employment manager, National Knitting Co., 905 Clinton
Street, Milwaukee, W is.
Merriam, George B., manager of labor, Brown-Lipe-Chapin Co., Syracuse,
N. Y.
Messerschmitt, George, superintendent, Rochester Folding Box Co., Roches­
ter, N. Y.
Metcalf, H. C., professor of economics, Tufts College, Tufts College, Mass.
Miley, Charles T., superintendent of labor, Carpenter Steel Co., Reading, Pa.
Miller, Paul A., employment manager, Worthington Pump & Machine Corpo­
ration, Hazleton, Pa.
Mook, M. B., service manager, Hydraulic Pressed Steel Co., 3180 East Sixtyfirst Street, Cleveland, Ohio.
Moon, C. W ., employment manager, R. K. Le Blond Machine Tool Co., Cin­
cinnati, Ohio.
Moon, W . EL, employment and welfare manager, Signal Corps, United States
Army, Dayton, Ohio.
Moore, Horace E., assistant superintendent, S. L. Allen & Co., Fifth Street
and Glenwood Avenue, Philadelphia, Pa.
Moore, John C., employment department, Henry Disston & Sons (In c.),
Tacony, Philadelphia, Pa.
Morgan, H . J., assistant to labor manager, Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co.,
Akron, Ohio.
Morris, Le Roy, chief draftsman, American La France Fire Engine Co.,
Elmira, N. Y.
Morris, Miss Mary L., service manager, Connecticut Mills Co., Danielson,



Morrison, Stuart, assistant employment manager, Emergency Fleet Corpora­
tion, Washington, D. C.
Muhlhauser, A., employment manager, Baltimore Dry Dock & Ship Building
Co., Baltimore, Md.
Muhlhall, W alter F., assistant to vice president, Tacony Ordnance Corpora­
tion, Tacony, Philadelphia, Pa.
Mull, I. E., assistant employment manager, Packard Motor Car Co., Detroit.
Mullen, E. A., employment supervisor, A. P. Smith Manufacturing Co., East
Orange, N. J.
Munro, D. Elmer, assistant superintendent, Auburn, N. Y .

Nagell, W . H ., supervisor of labor, International Harvester Co. o f New
Jersey, Auburn, N. Y.
Names, J. K ., branch manager, Underwood Typewriter Co., New York City.
Naylor, A. H ., Atlas Crucible Steel Co., Dunkirk, N. Y.
Naylor, J. R., director of employment, Heppenstall Forge & Knife Co., Pitts­
burgh, Pa.
Neal, George F.., employment manager, Todd Protectograph Co., Rochester,
N. Y.
Neale, Margaretta, superintendent Woman’s Division, United States Depart­
ment of Labor, 22 East Twenty-second Street, New York City.
Needles, I. G., sales employment manager, B. F. Goodrich Co., Akron, Ohio.
Neese, F. G., employment superintendent, Pusey & Jones Co., Wilmington,
Nelson, N. C., employment superintendent, Armour & Co., Chicago, 111.
Newcomb, Charles L., manager, Dean Works, Worthington Pump & Ma­
chinery Corporation, Holyoke, Mass.
Newcomb, F. W ., 120 Fuller Street, Brookline, Mass.
Newman, R. H., employment manager, Liberty Ordnance Co., Bridgeport,
Nicholls, J. H., better service department, Halcomb Steel Co., Syracuse, N. Y.
Nickerson, T. K., American Writing Paper Co., Holyoke, Mass.
Nilsen, P. J., Arthur Young & Co., 1315 Monadnock Block, Chicago, 111.
Nock, Arthur B., employment manager, Electric Controller & Manufacturing
Co., 2698 East Seventy-ninth Street, Cleveland, Ohio.
Noftzger, F. C., employment manager, Poliak Steel Co., Chicago, 111.
Noyes, Henry T., treasurer, Art in Buttons (In c.), Rochester, N. Y.

O’Blenese, H . M., Carnegie Steel Co., 1027 Carnegie Building, Pittsburgh, Pa.
O’Brien, John J., assistant shop superintendent, United States Navy Depart­
ment, Navy Yards, New York City.
O’Brien, R. A., assistant employment manager, Bridgeford Machine Tool
Works, Rochester, N. Y.
Odencrantz, Louis C., superintendent, New York State Public Employment
Bureau, 312 Jay Street, Brooklyn, N. Y.
Oesterling, T. J., assistant works manager, Herman Pneumatic Machine Co.,
Zelienople, Pa.
O’Neill, J. T ., Eastman Kodak Co., Hawk Eye Works, Rochester, N. Y .

77920°— IS-------16



Orr, J. K ., ex-president, Atlanta Chamber of Commerce, Atlanta, Ga.
Osborne, Louis A., manager library sales, International Text Book Co.,
Scranton, Pa.
Oswald, Jacob, works manager, Fels & Co., Philadelphia, Pa.
Otte, O. W ., jr., employment manager, The Domestic Engineering Co., Dayton,
Owens, W m . J„ assistant superintendent, McIntosh & Seymore Corporation,
Auburn, N .Y.

Paine, W m . J., employment manager, International Arms & Fuze Co., Bloom­
field, N. J.
Palmer, Lew R c o m m issio n e r of labor and industry, Harrisburg, Pa.
Palmer, V. M., engineer of industrial economy, Eastman Kodak Co., Kodak
Park, Rochester, N. Y.
Park, L. L., superintendent of welfare, American Locomotive Co., Schenec­
tady, N. Y.
Parker, C. J., employment manager, Maryland Shipbuilding Corporation,
Baltimore, Md.
Parker, H. E., employment manager, Fore River Plant, Bethlehem Ship­
building Corporation, Quincy, Mass.
Parkinson, Royal, employment manager, American Optical Co., Southbridge,
Patterson, J., welfare director, Hydraulic Pressed Steel Co., Cleveland, Ohio.
Perkins, A. W ., employment manager, Revere Rubber Co., Providence, R. I.
Pettibone, W . B., factory manager, W illard Storage Battery Co., Cleveland,
Phelps, R.
employment manager, Eli Lilly & Co., Indianapolis, Ind.
Pickrel, P. C., employment manager, Symington-Anderson Co., 1044 Univer­
s ity Avenue, Rochester, N. Y.
Pipping, Henry H., employment manager, Slatersville Finishing Co., Slatersville, R. I.
Place, W . B., employment manager, David Lupton’s Sons Co., Philadelphia,
Platt, Robert E., employment manager, Scovill Manufacturing Co., Waterbury, Conn.
Play don, James, jr., assistant employment manager, Worthington Pump &
Machinery Corporation, Holyoke, Mass.
Plumer, E. G., employment manager, Emerson Brantingham Co., Rockford,

Poole, W . W ., secretary, Rice-Lorin Co., Muskegon, Mich.
Powers, D. W ., service supervisor, E. I. du Pont de Nemours & Co., Carneys
Point, N. J.
Pratt, E. S., employment manager, The Celluloid Co., Newark, N. J.
Price, Miss E. V., employment and service manager, Narrow Fabric Corpora­
tion, Reading, Pa.
Price, John Ti, employment superintendent, Worthington Pump & Machine
Corporation, Elmwood Place, Cincinnati, Ohio.
Primmer, E. F., employment manager, National Cash Register Oo., Dayton,
Puffer, H. E., employment manager, Larkin Co., Buffalo, N. Y.
Purdy, W m . B., employment manager, The Atlantic Refining Co., Philadel­
phia, Pa.



Purse!!, L. P., assistant employment manager, Merchant Ship Building Cor­
poration, Philadelphia, Pa.
Pyle, Edwin L, employment manager, Heppenstall Forge Co., Bridgeport,

Quaife, T. R., production manager, Bastian Bros. Co., Mt. Hope Avenue,
Rochester, N. Y.
Quinby, Dr. R. S., service manager, Hood Rubber Co., Watertown, Mass.

Radcliff, W m . J., employment manager, Tacony Ordnance Corporation, Tacony, Philadelphia, Pa.
Ramage, E. C., employment agent, Carnegie Steel Co., E. T. Works, Braddock,
Rapp, Perry, superintendent Rosenberg Bros.’ Co., Rochester, N. Y.
Ray, Louis A., superintendent of employment, Carnegie Steel Co., New Castle,
Ray, Capt. R. R., district supervising officer, Industrial Service Section, 82
St. Paul Street, Rochester, N. Y.
Rectanus, S. R., director of employment, The American Rolling Mill Co., Mid­
dletown, Ohio.
Reed, Edith, welfare department, Notaseme Hosiery Co., Oxford and Masher
Streets, Philadelphia, Pa.
Rensenhouse, R. A., employment manager, Fairbanks, Morse & Co., Three
Rivers, Mich.
Reulbach, Edward M., assistant employment manager, Submarine Boat Cor­
poration, Port Newark, N. J.
Rice, Edward E., supervisor, North American Insurance Co., 31 Liberty
Street, New York City.
Rice, W . E., employment manager, White Motor Co., Cleveland, Ohio.
Richards, F. C., employment manager, Lackawanna Bridge Co., Buffalo, N. Y.
Riddell, W . A., superintendent Trades and Labor Branch, Department of
Public Works, Ontario Government, 15 Queen Park, Toronto, Ontario.
Rieder, N. M., Ordnance Department, industrial service section, Frankford
Arsenal, Philadelphia, Pa.
Riemenschneider, R. R., personnel department, Canton Sheet Steel Co., Can­
ton, Ohio.
Rietschlin, O. R., service manager, Aberthaw Construction Co., 27 School
Street, Boston, Mass.
Rissberger, A. C., manager Central Employment Department, 1044 University
Avenue, Rochester, N. Y.
Ritter, May F., employment manager, E. Sutro & Son, Thompson and Clear­
field Streets, Philadelphia, Pa.
Rivers, Nelson F., employment manager, Kelly Springfield Tire Co., 711 North­
land Avenue, Buffalo, N. Y.
Roberts, Mrs. A ., visiting nurse, Taylor Instrument Cos., Rochester, N. Y.
Robinson, A. L., consulting engineer, The Barber Asphalt Paving Co., 1900
r^and Title Building, Philadelphia, Pa.
Robinson, Burr A., manager industrial relations department, United States
Rubber Co., New Haven, Conn*



Robinson, H. L., manager employment department, Crompton & Knowles
Loom Works, Worcester, Mass.
Robinson, Hugh M., employment manager, Bullard Machine Tool Co., Bridge­
port, Conn.
Rogers, Ethel, superintendent vocational department, State Employment Bu­
reau, 387 East Main Street, Rochester, N. Y.
Rogers, Mrs. L. Tarbell, woman farm-labor specialist, State Food Commission,
Binghamton, N. Y.
Rolle, Sidney, cashier, United States Metals Refining Co., Chrome, N. J.
Ross, Arthur W ., manager labor and service, Westinghouse Lamp Co., Bloom­
field, N. J.
Ross, Raymond J., assistant employment manager, Remington Arms-Union
Metallic Cartridge Co., Ilion, N. Y.
Rossiter, Leo B., employment manager, North East Electric Co., 348 Whitney
Street, Rochester, N. Y.
Rothenberg, J. A., employment manager, The Standard Parts Co., Cleveland,
Rudd, J. H ., employment manager, Remington Arms-Union Metallic Cartridge
Co., Ilion, N. Y.
Ryerson, Carl, division superintendent, Willys-Overland Co., Toledo, Ohio.

Salter, W . G., supervisor of labor, International Harvester Co. of New Jersey,
1734 Fullerton Avenue, Chicago, 111.
Sanders, Edward W ., assistant purchasing agent, Passaic Cotton Mills, New
Bedford, Mass.
Sandmann, H., superintendent Spencer Lens Co., Buffalo, N. Y.
Saposs, D. J., New York State Industrial Commission, Capitol, Albany, N. Y.
Saul, Harvey, superintendent labor and welfare, Taylor Wharton Iron & Steel
Co., Easton, Pa.
Sawyer, W . S., employment manager, The W illys Morrow Co., Elmira, N. Y.
Schaap, Michael, director of personnel. L. Bamberger & Co., Newark, N. J.
Schaffner, Joseph H., Hart, Schaffner & Marx, Chicago, 111.
Scheele, Charles A., assistant treasurer, Buffalo W ire Works Co., 498 Terrace
Street, Buffalo, N. Y.
Schell, Erwin H ., assistant professor, Massachusetts Institute of Technology,
Cambridge, Mass.
Schiele, Carl George, general foreman, Cincinnati Milling Machine Co., Oak­
ley, Cincinnati, Ohio.
Schneider, A. J., employment manager, The Cincinnati Planer Co., Oakley,
Cincinnati, Ohio.
Schoenbeck, Gertrude, employment section, H. Black & Co., Cleveland, Ohio.
Schwartz, H . A., National Malleable Castings Co., Indianapolis, Ind.
Schwarz, E. N., employment manager, Buffalo Forge Co., 490 Broadway, B uf­
falo, N. Y.
Schwebemeyer, R. G., employment manager, H yatt Roller Bearing Co., New­
ark, N. J.
Schwenzer, Frank G., manufacturing superintendent, Ericcson Manufactur­
ing Co., 1100 Military Road, Buffalo, N. Y.
Schwind, E. S., employment manager, Tidewater Oil Co., Bayonne, N. J.
Sciutto, Frank, assistant employment manager, E. I. du Pont de Nemours &
Co., Haskell, N. J.



Scott, J. A., employment and welfare manager, Cleveland Osborn Manufac­
turing Co., Cleveland, Ohio.
Scott, Tom J., superintendent, Alvey-Fergnson Co., Cincinnati, Ohio.
Scrimgeour, B .f general manager, Gas Engine & Power Co., Morris Heights,
New York City.
Scripture, La Yinnia, sales department, Taylor Instrument Co., Rochester,
N. Y.
Seams, Jesse, business manager, American Smelting & Refining Co., Perth
Imboy, N. J.
Searle, W . A., employment manager, Niles-Bement-Pond Co., Plainfield, N. J.
Searles, Rose L., service supervisor, Eastern Manufacturing Co., Bangor, Me.
Seaton, S. B., superintendent, International Tag Co., 652 W est Lake Street,
Chicago, 111.
Seller, J. T „ manager industrial relations, Greenfield Tap & Die Corporation,
Greenfield, Mass.
Semor, Thomas K., employment manager, The Steel Products Co., Cleveland,
Seubert, Adolph F., assistant superintendent, National Malleable Castings
Co., Toledo, Ohio.
Shaw, G. E., employment manager, Dennison Manufacturing Co., Framing­
ham, Mass.
Shearer, James, special work, Industrial Works, Bay City, Mich.
Shedd, C. A., superintendent, Walden-Worcester (In c.), Worcester, Mass.
Shepard, Jesse C., employment manager, Shepard Electric Crane & Hoist Co.,
Montour Falls, N. Y.
Sheuring, Phoebe, forewoman, Hickey Freeman Co., 1155 Clinton Avenue
North, Rochester, N. Y.
Shimp, F. A., assistant employment supervisor, Hercules Powder Co., W il­
mington, Del.
Sigsbee, R. A., employment manager, Emerson Co., BO Church Street, New
York City.
Simkins, J. W ., superintendent of employment, Merchant Ship Building Cor­
poration, Bristol, Pa.
Simmons, Helen A., labor department, Dunn & McCarthy, 41 Washington
Street, Auburn, N. Y.
Simonds, A. T., president, Simonds Manufacturing Co., Fitchburg, Mass.
Smith, George F., employment bureau, Henry Disston & Sons (In c.), Phila­
delphia, Pa.
Smith, H. B., employment manager, United States Cartridge Co., Lowell,
Smith, John M., assistant superintendent, H. Black & Co., Cleveland, Ohio.
Snyder, C., general superintendent, Hinkley Motors Corporation, Detroit,
Soults, T., superintendent, Sill Stove Works, 524 Oak Street, Rochester, N. Y.
Sparrow, F. S., employment manager, Hood Rubber Co., Watertown, Mass.
Sparrow, John, employment manager, Cleveland Welding & Manufacturing
Co., W est One hundred and seventeenth Street and Berea Road, Cleveland,
Squire, Samuel H ., president, Milwaukee Electric Crane & Manufacturing Co.,
Milwaukee, W is.
Stafford, J. P., welfare manager, Swift & Co., Chicago, 111.
Stamm, F. H ., assistant to general superintendent, Sears, Roebuck & Co.,
Chicago, 111.



Stamm, W . R., manager welfare department, Sears, Roebuck & Co., Chicago,

Stanley, Geo. J., district manager, Aluminum Co. of America, Pittsburgh, Pa.
Stearns, W alter D., Westinghouse Electric & Manufacturing Co., East Pitts­
burgh, Pa.
Steely, Dale G., general superintendent, W . F. Schrafft & Sons (In c.), 160
Washington Street North, Boston, Mass.
Stephenson, H ., industrial engineer, Eastman Kodak Co., Kodak Park, Roch­
ester, N. Y.
Stewart, Ethelbert, chief statistician, United States Bureau of Labor Statis­
tics, Washington, D. C.
Stewart, H. L., employment manager, The Columbia Axle Co., Cleveland, Ohio.
Stewart, W . J., assistant to superintendent, By-Products Coke Corporation,
South Chicago, 111.
Stigbert, A. O., assistant superintendent, Stromberg-Carlson Telephone Co.,
1050 University Avenue, Rochester, N. Y.
Stone, Geo. H., employment manager, Locomobile Co. of America, Bridge­
port, Conn.
Storke, C. W ., secretary, Employers* Association, Auburn, N. Y.
S to well, E. A., general employment manager, Manning, Maxwell & Moore
(In c.), 119 W est Fortieth Street, New York City.
Sullivan, G. L., employment manager, Worthington Pump & Machinery Cor­
poration, Blake & Knowles Works, East Cambridge, Mass.
Sutton, F. Cherrie, assistant superintendent, State Employment Bureau, 120
W est Jefferson Street, Syracuse, N. Y.
Swallow, W . C„ employment manager, Amoskeag Manufacturing Co., Man­
chester, N. H.
Switzer, E. T., general superintendent, Aberfoyle Manufacturing Co., Ches­
ter, Pa.

Talbot, Mrs. Anne Hedges, New York State Department of Education, Albany,
N. Y.
Talbot, Winthrop M. D., adviser in alien education, Bureau of Industries and
Taylor, H. C., superintendent, New York State Bureau of Employment, 122 St.
Paul Street, Rochester, N. Y.
Taylor, J. E., employment manager, Mobile Shipbuilding Co., Mobile, Ala.
Taylor, T. V., assistant superintendent, Buckeye Steel Castings Co., Colum­
bus, Ohio.
Taylor W . J., employment manager, American Can Co., New York City.
Tead, Mrs. Clara M., supervisor, Ordnance Department, Wom en’s Branch,
Seventh and D Streets, Washington, D. C.
Tead, Ordway, Bureau of Industrial Research, Washington, D. C.
Teele, W . R., publicity engineer, General Electric Co., Seventh and W illow
Streets, Philadelphia, Pa.
Thomas, L. I., managing editor, F actory Magazine, A. W . Shaw Co., 5 North
Wabash Avenue, Chicago, 111.
Thompson, Alfred, employment manager, American Brake Shoe & Foundry
Co., Erie, Pa.
Thompson, L. W ., employment manager, Wagner Electric Manufacturing Co.,
St. Louis, Mo.
Thompson, Ralph E., Gillette Safety Razor Co., Boston, Mass.



Thomsen, May, assistant employment manager, Joseph & Feiss Co., Cleveland,
Tolsted, Elmer B., supervising Engineer, Independence Inspection Bureau, 137
South Fifth Street, Philadelphia, Pa.
Torrey, Arthur M., secretary, Employers* Association of North Jersey, 45
Academy Street, Newark, N. J.
Townsend, S. Paul, secretary, Boston Employment Managers’ Association, 201
Devonshire Street, Boston, Mass.
Trevaskiss, E. F., employment manager, E. I. du Pont de Nemours & Co.,
Parlin, N. J.
Trimble, H . A., assistant superintendent, Bowen Product Corporations, 7
Canal Street, Auburn, N. Y.
Truesdell, Marion, Independence Inspection Bureau, 137 South Fifth Street,
Philadelphia, Pa.
Tuck, Nicholas, superintendent, Rosenberg Bros. Co., Rochester, N. Y.
Tulloch, Donald, secretary, Worcester Branch, National Metal Trades Asso­
ciation, Worcester, Mass.
Tulloch, Donald, jr., secretary, National Metal Trades Association, Boston,
Turner, G. B., employment manager, Hartford Rubber Works, Hartford, Conn.
Tuttle, Harvey N., employment manager, Poliak Steel Co., Cincinnati, Ohio.
Tyler, L. S., vice president, Acme W ire Co., New Haven, Conn.
Tyson, Francis, professor of economics, University of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh,

Vail, R. W ., employment manager, American Ship Building Co., Buffalo, Dry
Dock Co., 301 Ganson Street, Buffalo, N. Y.
Vander Pyl, John C., employment manager, American Hard Rubber Co., Col­
lege Point, N. Y.
Van Geyt, Peter J., employment manager, 110 Augustine Street, Rochester,
N. Y.
Van Riper, T. C., superintendent, Morris & Co., Union Stock Yards, Chicago,

Van Sickem, E. G., assistant superintendent, Jacob Dold Packing Co., Buffalo,
N. Y.
Van Valkenburgh, R. M., assistant general employment manager American
Ship Building Co., Cleveland, Ohio.
Varnum, Earl F., employment manager, Commonwealth Steel Co., Granite
City, 111.
Ye ry, Edward M., manager, Lockwood, Greene & Co., Boston, Mass.
Yickeys, W . H., employment manager, Bartlett, Hayward & Co., Baltimore,

Wade, John F., works manager, Bristol Brass Co., Bristol, Conn.
Wagner, R. J., employment manager, Kilbourne & Jacobs Manufacturing
Co., Columbus, Ohio.
Walker, Clara G., assistant supervisor, State Employment-Vocational Depart­
ment, 387 East Main Street, Rochester, N. Y.
Walter, H . H., assistant general superintendent, International Nickel Co.,
Bayonne, N. J.
Walton, E. C., jr., assistant superintendent, Ault & Wiborg Co., 432 New Street,
Cincinnati, Ohio.



Warner, Ruth, employment manager, International Magazine Co., 119 W est
Fortieth Street, New York City.
W ay, Edward A., employment manager, Aberfoyle Manufacturing Co., Chester,
Wayne, B. P., employment manager, General Railway Signal Co., Lincoln
Park, Rochester, N. Y.
Weakly, F. E., employment manager, Montgomery W ard & Co., Chicago, 111.
Weed, T. L., employment manager, Stanley Works, New Britain, Conn.
W eitz, A. P., superintendent, National Brass Manufacturing Co* 193 Mill
Street, Rochester, N. Y.
Wells, Ralph G., assistant chief employment manager, E. I. du Pont de
Nemours & Co., Wilmington, Del.
Wells, W . S., assistant employment manager, Newburgh Shipyards (In c.),
Newburgh, N. Y.
Wemple, J. H ., industrial service department, General Electric Co., Schenec­
tady, N. Y.
West, Chas. H ., employment manager, W est Bros., Syracuse, N. Y.
Westerman, Miss S. A., office manager, Farm Journal , 230 South Seventh
Street, Philadelphia, Pa.
Westphal, Elmer, employment manager, Ericcson Manufacturing Co., 1100
Military Road, Buffalo, N. Y.
White, H. H ., employment manager, Harrison Radiator Corporation, Lockport, N. Y.
White, L. M., assistant manager, Roessler & Hasslacher Chemical Co., Perth
Amboy, N. J.
W ilcox, John M., employment manager, American Ship Building Co., Cleve­
land, Ohio.
W ill, Philip, vice president, Sill Stove Works, 524 Oak Street, Rochester,
N. Y.
W ille, Henry, employment supervisor, American Locomotive Co., Dunkirk,
N. Y.
W illey, C. E., vice president, Jas. Clark, jr., Electric Co., Louisville, Ky.
Williams, Mrs. Jane C., personnel manager, Plimpton Press, Norwood, Mass.
W illiam s, Whiting, director of personnel, Hydraulic Press Steel Co., Cleve­
land, Ohio.
Williamson, D. V., production manager, Detroit Gear & Machine Co., 127
Franklin Street, Detroit, Mich.
Willingham, W . B., secretary and treasurer, Willingham T ift Co., Atlanta,
W illis, L. J., employment manager, Rochester Stamping Co., 12 Saratoga
Avenue, Rochester, N. Y.
Wilson, G. K., employment manager, Devie & Co., Moline, 111.
Wilson, H . R., superintendent of employment, American Smelting & Refining
Co., Perth Amboy, N. J.
Wilson, Ralph B., chairman of faculty, Boston University, 525 Boylston
Street, Boston, Mass.
Wilson, Robert L., assistant general superintendent, Westinghouse Electric &
Manufacturing Co., East Pittsburgh, Pa.
Winans, W . H ., employment manager, National Carbon Co., Cleveland, Ohio.
Windsor, B. G., superintendent of labor, Continental Can Co., Twenty-second
and Halsted Streets, Chicago, 111.
Windsor, M. V., employment manager, Yogt Manufacturing & Coach Lace Co.,
408 St. Paul Street, Rochester, N. Y.



Winslow, H. C., employment manager, New England Structural Co., 110 State
Street, Boston, Mass.
Witte, F. W ., employment director, Emerson Co., 30 Church Street, New York
Woerner, Otto, superintendent, Edwin J. Schoettle Co., 533 North Eleventh
Street, Philadelphia, Pa.
W olf, Dale, director employment and service, Miller Lock Co., 4523 Tacony
Street, Philadelphia, Pa.
W olf, W . R., assistant manager, Central Employment Department, 1044 Uni­
versity Avenue, Rochester, N. Y.
Wood, R. T., employment manager, Standard Tool Co., 6900 Central Avenue,
Cleveland, Ohio.
Woodelton, Geo. O., employment manager, Thomas-Morse Aircraft Corpora­
tion, Ithaca, N. Y.
Woolford, Cator, president, Retail Credit Co., Atlanta, Ga.
Worthey, C. F., employment manager, Gray & Davis (In c.), Boston, Mass.
Wright G. S., employment manager, Vacuum Oil Co., 926 Exchange Street,
Rochester, N. Y.
Wright, H. A., sales manager, The Hindey Machine Co., Torrington, Conn.
Wynn, Elmer E., labor manager, D. Goff & Sons, Pawtucket, R. I.

Yeager, H. M., assistant superintendent, Fedders Manufacturing Co. (In c.),
57 Tonawanda Street, Buffalo, N. Y.
Young, A. H., director, American Museum of Safety, 18 W est Twenty-fourth
Street, New York City.
Young, H. G., employment manager, Cole Motor Car Co., Indianapolis, Ind.

Zabel, Wm., engineer of production, Union Switch & Signal Co., Swissvale, Pa.
Zeller, Wm. J., employment manager, Duestor Gear Co. (In c.), Syracuse, N. Y.
Zimmer, V. A., superintendent, Newr York State Public Employment Bureau,
Buffalo, N. Y.