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REPORT
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CODITfE,E OF THE SENATE
'U PON TBB BV.A'l'JOJl9 11:K'I.W,BB:N"

LABOR AND CAPITAL,
A.ND

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TOIIPIM .I , II, III,, . , •. IV, AlfD PART o Voi.mm: V, rmrm.OlffJ
VoLu.am V,, REPORT ov Coi'1
. D111Tn.,
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IIB](BEBS

0r 'tBE

uov. ,1~r:a&

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481n COHOBUS'".

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BBKRr W. B1,AtR,, of New Hampahin,. 08:.tJKK&lff
1

WlLl,;,LlM M.lHONEt ef Vi.r mu.la.;·
WARNER, ·u rLJ,/BII, o,f New York;
KELSON W • .ALDRIC~ of Rhioda &lad;

111\'1:1011.11
BO
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ftTE!I.
f ~I, ·-rc··,
0 .-. G1--.:1
VJ..-..,0·•
;
JAJIBS Z. ,QEOBGE, of lfl•ieeippi;
W)J,.KllifSON C·· 4 JJ,.,, of
-- F'lori.:11·- ,..
..J'AME8, L. PUGH:, ef Alabama;
.JillBS & GROOME, ,a f .l luylanl.
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'V ·O LUME IV-Testim.ony•.

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WASHINGTON:

· &OVBBlfM:E,I(!' PBlll-:f IIIG OlPJi:IOJI.

1886,.

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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RELATJ.ON':S B'E""fWl,EN LABOR .!ND C.A PITAL.
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Q. Is he getting that })ay u.o·w t-A. No ,; he is goiog ·t o school now,,
but whe.n be; wor... he can _
ge·t lha't.
Q~ y;o·o.r wife does not w·or·k. in t·he factory f-A. No, sir;. she w.aahea
an.d se·w s som& The wllite peuple that. raised her showed 'h er ho·w to
sew., and sb.e ca·n make a.uy kind.of ad~·.
Q. How l,o ng have ,you ~ D married t'- .A.. Teu year~..
_
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Q.. Dave yon. loat ,aDT ohildreu. t A. :ies, sir ; six. Bu·t , there di,d n'·t
none CJf them. com,e to time~ lly wife is not very strong.•
Q. Is your ·wife growiog ·.· ~u er·1-. • YM,,si~; she.is ,s tronger than
when she was youug; bnt she was ··Jw~ys v,e ry deliuate, and t~e whi;ta
peop,l e tbat raised her· kept .he:r in the botn1e and learned_her to ,sew.
s·h.e baa had whooping· oou.g h. ii- d asth.ma; ~be. had &1,t hma when I married. her, b'o t sh~1,does. not b.a._ e it no~ b1a t onoo a, year.
_
Q Do the colored people ge1t1erdlly .h ave large .fam'ilies t-A;. Gen
erally so..
·
Q.. How, r1.bo11.t their· losiug· a _good many of bheir obilche"n t----A.. Bame
is tba;t, way and aome not. All wome·n is oo·t weakly ali·ke, yon know;
80018 is ,s tro·n,ger~ _
_
Q. Do, your childre - go to aeho<,11-A. U1,e of them does; ·t he OD8
that is eig'h t, years ol:d..
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SCB.O OL ATTEBDA.lfOE, IN LYN·O BBU.RG..

How is it generally .a s to the attendance at school of the·cbildnm,,
wbi'te and colored, io and. a~b out,~yo,c hburg I-Al Wei_,, they 'b oth seem
w·.attend school pretty well, both, col.on.
~

Q_ B ,ow long' ,a re t'b e schools kept open ,eac'h year 1-.A .. I think tile
8818ion is..aboat nine mon~hs io the year.. They hav,e .a vacation of about
thme months,, I thiu·k ; l don''t believe now b n·t it is, only t ·w,o moot.,
beca111e I kind_of .remembe that m.y little 'b oy di.d u't stop goia,g to acllool
till so·me ·time in .Jone!!
Q. Are the ·teaeh,ers wbit•e or ,ooJored !-Ai Som,e white and eome
colored.
". . D,.\;li,
· u-- - V·v.'°' oo-·ilored, •~~L-,
n
a Rl'lliU
~j.,.ools
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l 'al
r-' pJo.rl --A. There 1a one ., art w·lrite and another part colored.
·
Q. ? the achools mixed or aepa·r at~ f-A. Tb~y are ae,p ante.
·Q. 'Th.e m are no white children ia_the ·eolored schools, n.o r· colored
ehUdren ·111 the white sehoola 'I -A. No, ,a ir; no't one.
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,~ _You d~'t ~ ,a nt to lta.v e any '!h.ite cbild·r en in ,y our schools, I ,. .,...

poae1~A No, m.

Q. .~ ow d.o he oolnred peop~ generally feel about th_, at_I_ _A~ TM,
w~t their ,e b~n to go to thmr own ,sehooJ& J ·n e.v er Jaeard one eoloftd man 811\J' that he wanted 'h is ,children to go to a w·h ite aellooL.
Q. Why not I- A. Well it?:a jut this.: them children woold nol,do to
go to aohool te.g ether anyhow.•
Q W)l.y n.o t!-A_. Well, now,. l'I.I telly,ou. The w·h ite children, them.
thatris, big enough., knowa w:e have been ala,vea ·t b·a t belonged tfl,theil'·pa1 •·
· com.
" - · ·t'~
a ,-.OU.
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' ata-1..-· t on·
· t-. 0 ·f· ·th&ll.
.., ·T. .,·.·b·e 11' b"'te
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es a l)e&
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drea trill. lhow authority over the oigp:r, aud I don''t belie:ve they·'h aft
any 1Ju1mes&. toge to sohool topther. That la my idea. Now, .I
IQiaaty atnmge man. If I am worki·o g fQr·YOll ud yen treat me ,p od.
:11811,., ~ that _is all ri.g ht, bot yoa ooaJd not llave me uome, and lit
down w. your diaing.. room, beeao,ae I have never been ·a eed to it, and I
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

BBL&Tl'ONS, BETWBBB LJJIOB AlfD CAPITA,L ~
COLOBBD LA.Jm-C,WJIBBB Dr vm&DlU..

Q. Do. the ,colored
., · people own
..· .mnab ~ ~A. Y~, air.; a.gre.a
..· .··t many·
eotored.people have ri,ght smart little. farms in Virginia. I tllon't 'knoW
·how mBDy,, but :to~Jf 'there.ia a good man,7. I bow a. man named
Jackson tb1a t baa bad three1farms, and he has two now·.
Q. Do yon know what, he paid for them I ~. No; I don't Jmow W'hat
they ooe.t him,, bnt I know one of them is 300 ~ ,. It.:!I in ,Qampbell
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. "- -· T .:'ITTll-'L·b __ ·
Co
- DDt y,,, be
.--yon- d-- ' ·ampbe
~ -' . 8, J.U.00D1am, - or . ' ,l !W.Um llvm .a..q,g,l JU urg.i
Q. Baa. that man ·p aid for his land.T-A. Yea._ sir.
-' »~d
h- e-, b···ave·. anJ
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l!Wf eDvj years ago ,___
...~Jr l.Dlll
he did not.
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Q.. He.·was a ,slave. then, I .&oppose t -.A Y~ .Bir~
.
Q. He did not have e·ven himself then t-A.. No, sir. he •did.not llave
blmeelftbe»~
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Q. Have you any b:ro:thenl-A. _-Yes, Bir; I _have oo.e brother in
Prince.Edw.ard.County. Be has got forty acrea of Jana and a,team+ .He
'h aa got 6~
'" ...:'L.1,1-1.ud • B "e· r ~
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L-t and- to,..__....___
,~
. n1.a1.
WDCD
.·. •LRl!UOU an'd_ ,c· orn,,
Q-.
. Bo<w· mneu.
--·· 1.. wh·
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-- - , be·
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Ei:"'ai't..,t,
_ea
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a ,maD!Cil t
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Q. What is 1t worth a 'b oa'h el th.ere.I-A.. Sometimes. tbeJ ,get l •l for
.,1t,
.- an~·
d someti.me1,
· ,_·125
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Q. I su·p pose they eat it themselv,e a :m.o etly , ·.A .. i'_hey dou''t sell mueb
·w beal, .B y broth.e r bas, his wheat groo._nd np into flour, 'but. he alw•ye
keeps eno11,·.'h for, himself..
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Q~ I see that these oo1ored people about the mil'road stations dreas.
a.boat u w·eu as the rest ,o f the ·folk&. Is that the,ease genenJl~-- through.
·this part of 'the ~ountry I-A,. Yes, siri,
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·T HE COLORED P.B OPLE WBLL OPP lN VIBGDnA.

Q. O.n th@ whol --, bow are the colored folks generally getting on in
Vlrgi11Ja t-A. weii', some parts of Virginia is very poor, you know, but
I believe that gene,rally th·e oolorecl people 10 Virginia beats t•e·m ·i n any
of the ot·her States.
ma,r be ·wron,g about it,, but that i1, ID.Y op:mlOO.
l ·mean ao . other State where ther,e is so many col.ored peeple.. Some
parts of Virgin'"a. 1 good and some part& ia poor.. I know two colored
men abou·t n.miles from, ·where my brother li'vea, ,a nd each one of th.em
fellows ha ·_· a good.,, big fal"m, .and &D. ,orehard,1an•d two or three horses
and. buggies an,l all those things. Th.ey are d,o iog well.
Q.. Tlu?n you t-bink. 't bat the oolored. ·people geuerall.y iu \: '~ 'inia are,
getting alou,g ·very w ,ll and am, :p.retty hap:py I-A., Ye", sir ; they are
gettiui along \"ery well. generally.
Bette1 tha·o they ·usec:1 to 1-A.. ·O h,,ye~ ; ~ tJ~i.u k ·they_g~t along·now
a good, d.e.al be.t ter than 'tll.eJ~u8f-d to. I think the people in the oou·n.·t ry, ·t h,e farmers,. know better how kt, go to work and bow to li.ve, and
at tbe end of" the year now they have g-ot eometlling.~ There is v·e ry few
of them . o·w th.at hasn't g-ot somethin.g at the end ,o'f the .:vear~
Q. Do they save 1t.f-A. Yes, air~
Q. What dot.hey do wit'h it --A., Well,someof tbem ·t bat .haa enough
to do it with gets them little places They have :· uta good many placffl
·now in. Virginia-the colored folk1&. B ·a t1some of them undertook 'to
~ ··p ~ and they ha ·e lost them booaose the crops 'h ave failed; tbey
·11ave 'bad bad oropa so.m.etimea.
Q. Wbat did y,oo._do before ion wurked .at the robaoco boBioesat~
The flrat work tbatl did after ,e maneipation was, for ·th.e man ·t hat I be1~

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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BBL4 TIOJf& BBfWil1Qf LUIOB, AND CAPITJ.L ..
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longed to. l staid witll hirn about a year,; Then I ame to Lynehborg,
and-'tend.ed a garden for a gentleman that now lives,in Danville. I w·orkefl
in Lynchburg at that al)oat a Jear. . I wu pin,g o~.b> aboai seventeen
seam,of age thea, and. ~ gave, lll8 ,I & _a ~t~ and board,. . After that,
.IIQIJm~r I went oot on the MM1m1 ~ ,, and worked there from
Hount Jackson ·to Barriaonborg. Thea ,a fter tha·t I wen·t to Lynell,..
burg ,a t Ohriatmaa, and I went down to .
_ depot;, and w~ked there,
aboa't n·ine monthe. Then I eame baok to Lpcllbnrg, and. went in.to
tbe tobaeco faetoey, and I worked ·there, off a~d ,on, about twelve yeara.,
The tobaooo factory oomm~ ~eea,_ahortly after the, aarremler.,
and it waa, run lip to,abeat Octoeer; then tile tubacoo buam.eJII waa,mill
and them oould. nol 'be not.bing don.e for three m:ontha or ·ootter, 'i n Oie
year, and I ·wonld go oo.t on. die-railread to work and come back.to the
~ in the ,apriag.. I dose ~ 't o pay ,e·xpeaeea, and :i n tba,t tiJM I
aaved up a good deal of mone,,..
_
Q. Wllat ,i id, .Joo. do with that,t-..L That w,as money that I ke_p t baa
ermipau,y with • • throwed a--,~ I ·waa,JP,a king ten. or ·twelve ,t fe~
a week and I thmwed. that • .,.,. alo.n g with i't. .A fter I got, married,I
eommen~ _saving up ~
and ,as soon_.• I got .a couple ,o f
11:ondn?d.,do.Dan ahead~f OOlll'88 1t took me 1some little time to aav,e 'l lf'
II08 and. k,eep mJ little eQeD8N1 ping. Wban I got ,a coop~ of
dred dollars ahead I ~ t . thitt lot tbat I' told you about. I hoagbt,
it ,on paymen_ta of 16,,112, an.d 118,, ~IHI ~ paid for, i.t an,d got the deetl
1· p:ve a, d,e ed of tnlM .after I ,ewe the firs,t payment and th.en after I
made my :last payment,'[ got a deed of re,lease. Th.ere waa,.a lot ef w►ite
people that carried, on a hoiLtiw,_g .aseoeiati.on, and I got in·t o that u well
ae ,o ther people. I hormwed 836.0 eut of tbat, and I atiot ·• yaelf io ille
way of· &&ting and clotlH..w and everything of that &Ort to eave : oney.
Of ~ I' had a s~t of elothes ~ go to eharch, 'bo.t my .workiag
clotlles,was p·r ett, bad.. I pa.id my 1200 .and I mckoa nearly l50 infer..
eat,1and tile ·man gnt ·me to aign eome pape,m thait waa ,all wrong.. That,
ii, w·:here a man that llaa pt an -edae,ation eu1take ad·v autap ,o f a man
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tlaat haan't.. I gOt
WU with that mUI that I thought it WBB all
rigllt, but it wa not. ·-- ~·t building loan. aaaoeiation not only rohhed
the poor ·1ne.n ba.t it robbed, tae rich men too. They got me 'to aip
aome paper:s, an.d th•J' wan'ted ·ta take my place~ and the!'" would have
takell it only that I got, another 1111,n to pay the l,27Ui I paid that,·m •
·■p, and no·w I bave got a ·hoaae tbat oos,t me about ,9800, and I 1111p·p o1e I ·h ave paid nearl7. ll,OOD fo,, , that place, aud I ,owe .&Jbout, l,ISD •

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it now.
Q. :But, u ·hh.e ~ult of it all~,,JOO have got J'DRr hom~,1-~~ Y~ . ..
Q.. Yo·u are a little orver tb1r-f;y years or age.t-A., YM, mr; eiadJ
~birtv,
... -fnur~

PB'E EDOM BET'lllB THA.N 8Li.VBBY EVEN 'W ITH A ,G OQD llABl'JUL

Q. I s~pJN!88 you bav,e bad · - pretty h~ time • ~ the amrend&
Do you think yo wonld have been better If you bad staid a alaveaeel
let ~nebody ~l~ take +~
,o~ y.~u t . A. Well, I would noli like to ..,
that. ~use l Like to b& boaeat ID what I sa;y,,.and of coune a maa ·U .at
is fme iB be,t ter ,d ' ·t han. ~ ala~ .I . bad a ,g ood maa·t er w·Jum I WM . a
elave, as many . e,re. perhaps ~ not.. He had a,nomhar of old pe•lt
on hi• phu:e, aild he would gi e dmm a holll8e w a n ~ t1Jet- ~• f
.I ,e up~ he ~ad about fi.ve ntm4red. people ,~ ·~ r , - , ,_ Jae 'b ad flll---•,
faartee~ o r ~ -~ aad d~lhten,,,and all '~ 181,Jiad llavea,and,k'
was., all eo.omd@red to be good people., Bot ,otJaer ,-ople, wu,_aoi h';e

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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RE·L,A TIONS BETWEE,·. T· LABOR A ... D C.A PlTAl,-

·t he·m.. Be didn't; pu.t none of the bo, ,s out in t,be field ·t o w·o rk until
they w.ere seveotee·n year.s. old ; ·h e kept them doing light work around
tb.e iranl I ·w • not old enough to be p11t to ·b ard wo:r k,. but even if. I
bad been, my maater w•ould not have put ·m e t.o it, because he.·was .a good.
w.ao.. .H e would not allow the o .emeers to ·. ·hip oary oue of the slave .
He uid he · uew how to treat, t·bem rigbt, and. if he d.i dn't punish 'the,m,
be w·ouldn'·t a.How anybody else to do .it.
Q.. Sttll, yon th.i'nk .y ou are better off on tb,e who·1e than you we·re in
slavery 1-A. Ye,e, Sir
Q. Is that the fooling of tbe coloretl people generally ·f -A. ·wetl, y,a,
air. Some oft.he- colored .people in the. ·t,owns and i ~l the count.ry, too,.
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aint &mart :; tb y do,n''t work ; they JaJ"' around a·o d. get·_ .a su~t ~ cl.0th.PA
wberever th.e:.,;- cao- ba·rdJ.y that sometimes-bot I don'· •c all them~·
ple smart. They don.'·t deserve .· · ything. U I had been a Blave I ooakl
noi ha·ve done. ha.Nier work "than I. ha .· e done aiooo. I have been free.
T.he inapeealir 885",8 that I am the bo&a porter on this 001apa.ny'a can,.
and he kllowa. tkem alL
Q. Yoa have alwa,s co,ntnved to k~ at the bead of your. p·r o&.·
lion t-A.. Yes, si'r·; that II the way I do. That is the way .I done •
· -I,,.,,-...,.1-r-:- I B'l~n·t •eD·.mDO'
ftf,__.... bona.at.
0!.~10t
ant·- o a· - -.
t.·_·~L-.
a..e ·t o
U ~ bo·
. - "'1·oe· ...r... ;f, *·o '"u1·•
. ~-, 1· ·....
_ ,ft'¥
bire m.yaelf to B man. I have got to w,o r~ I hav,e n't got n.o edaeation,
and if ,an.ybod_ was ·to gl\T·e. m.e an .oJlioe at
a year I could, not ..
Ill it.
·Q~ Do yoo think that .i f ,you had edacation you would be better off·t A. Well, I don~t know. I eee aome people ·t hat have t.>lerably be ed,,.
nea'tiona and. they are no better otr ·t 'b a:n I am; i■ fact the,. an,:wONe oa
than. I am.
Qi, Do you &nppoee that if the;y ·were .:like yoa in 0th.e r reapectl. taey
w·o uld be better o~for h.aring .e tfncation'~ A. Well,. I oppose 118.. Of
conne I wobld have known better what I waa mgoing for ·t hat man if I
.had an edl'ncation.. I th.o ught he ·waa doi.n g honest wi.t h me, bas be
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Q. Yoo s~·k of~~ng some_~

,c lothes ~ .~ · to choreh .; do yon .g o
to ch·nreh n .g ht a ongt-A. Yea, sir; I never· fail tu .K0 to,charch ·t luee
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times •OD S·o nday·~
·
Q.. Whatehuob ,d o you go ·b>,t- ~ .~ Tbe~t ~~tell~. H .l 41id
not go to ch.orcb t·b:ree ti.me1 on Sun.d ay I would feel that there.was
IOIDethmg that I lladn'.'t d.one. I know ·very well that if it ,doeen't do
me no pod it will not do ·me no ·h arm certainly~
Q. What is.all this nmse abou·t tb,a t :n otice at theae. stations as '"'
.P8111 along~&his shouting and ma.sic and gen.e ml •exoitem•e nt,I-A. r
tllta·k. it ia about tbe election. They have .l &lned Virgania, yoo bow,
_~d it is nat;mal, J"Oll know, o either aide to give a J.rttle. teea, aboat,it~
If theoppeeite ·p arty gem a man of eoune there ia just. as moo1l joy on.
hat aide.
Q.. Which way has it gone he·re I-A. l thiak it ia Demoomt·~cl
Q. 'l'llere need to be a good deal of trouble here ten ,o r Bfteen 1e&nl
l:i--1 -= -u:n
Y
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M!Wiiip1:a-:, n•·w- tL .....,,
go .a ,.,___t
uvu 'IIV'i.ut-ilftlil
JA"'M,~ 1· ·'U!6IJll
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UUII! •h·
It __ e
.
ve OOlb .· to have more sew aa .a genenl tbia,g . Yon know the colored.
le UI a ~ o m u t people abeut Oonpe88 a.ad au the haalBIIII
t; may be ,·· · · · then; tbe1don't koow i·t ~ th~y havn't .1 ~ ■
,. t · ·oowledp t• read
11Ddentand i'L ao.e.of them do tvw
w· to _read. aboo.t it now,, but, I don't know whetller th~y uaderstaa4 i&
getller or not11. A heap of tllem nau tba& •«loeen't
Q~ Well .·yea doa't,have aacb ller8 u you.·. ..t to :have,
. oppoee 1-A. No,, sir.. This thing at Dan,ille &his laat time WM tae
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·•aden·lar•-

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

11
.

RELA:TIONB BETWBBN LABOR ilD CAPITAL..

1.

Q. What have you observed .a s to the condition of the colored.people
in Louieian& t-A~ As to Louisiana I can't say very ·m.uell, beeauae I go
right. through the swampy part of'the _conntr:y, where t-b~ is not•·m nch
farming, but I no,t iee that the oolored _people at Ne.w _Orleans seem to
ge·t along very well. The ,,. travelers/'' w.a gonen,, and draymen. ·t h,e re
get. more pay tha·n_anybody else that I · ~ow ~f. T:hey get from. trt5 to
e1ai a ·w eek, and the fell,o ws that work along "the ·w.h arves mak:ie 11SCl,metimes from 118 to S.20 a week in the &pring· a1nd falt But in th.Et part
of tbe B.tate that I go through on the cars tltere's ·oot ·mneh farming; 1.t
seems to be all ,swam(J.
Q·. How is it .·.. ·i.tih the colored peoplle in Alaba.mat-A... Tiley seem to
be doing v,ery· well in Alabam~. I bave seen colored men that ·fa_
rmed
d0iwo. there come, to Lyncb:bu:rg,, and tbey had ~ore money than &nybod,:v ·t hat farmed a.ooot .L yocbborg.
remember ,o ne tha· · :b ad 'b is
moth.e r there at Lynchburg and. he had some 1800 or I -,OOil. He waa
.sold down 10 Alabama in slavery ·t im,e and be li·ves there.now. I know
of .a nother man in Uontpmm:y,, ~ , ·t hat makes money.. Be was BOid
down there in ,s lavery time and he. ,stays tbe:re yet. But in Vtrginia
the eo·loretl people seem to g et on very well~ I a·m sorry about th.at
littl.e "sturbance at Danville, bot that 000ld have beea d.oo,e ·w ith:o ot,
and that is the-only· 71aturbanoo in Virginia ·f or some ti·m,e-pas.t.. 'T.h is i1
a rich. part of .· ·irginia along here and tbe 11oople get along very eilL
Q. Wba.t put of Virginia ie this 1-~ This. is 1Southwest Virgin'ia..
Q. A.bon.t how ·f ar am we f.rom Bristol, Te-n IL t:.-.. ·. We are about, 60
miles from Bristol, now
Q. Do you. tbin:k of' anytbmg else yoo. can state as to,the oon,dition of
·t he oolored fblks,~ ~ ,i _o, sir; :I d.o n't thiu.k of anytb'ingelsejoet, now~
Q. What are the. young colored men doing, ,genemll;y t-~ Some of
,,.,
...
_
,. at work· ,, some teach"1ng aw100
., .....1.. I, some tums
.
..-em 18
oot.- to be
.· .·. · mmmters,,
Mme mail agen-ts, and some in the De;partmen.ts at ·w asbiagton.
_Q. Do ~any of -~ em work _o.n t h e ~,orplan.ta!ions'f _-A, Y~sir·:;
;t here is, a lot of colored people workmg ,o n :p lantations, .arou.nd Lto,eh-bug~
Q. Are th.ey generaJ.ly (!if steady habita I Do they save t_
heir money·
gen.era.11.y t-A. 8om.e of them. is very earing, and again. ·t here is othen
tbat waste ·w hat they makea.
q,. _Bow is it about the young· women ·t -A. W·ell, they don't do very
well in. the town.; io the ,country· they am moch better. They like to
d·r eu in. the towo,1 1Some of them. goes to ,aell.ool, aome takes in ·wash•
.
.
1ng,
an..d eom,e. goes to
·. · ,s ernoo.
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WAGES AJfD MOBAl,JJ 01' Y 0lJJiG COL0BED WOJfEW.
1

1

1

1

Q. .What :wages •c an they get in senioo 1-AJ; Some of them.m Lynch•
bu.rgh geta _f8 a mouth; some 1:~ some t5,, and some about I~ When
they· work ~y the da, they ge,t 00 cents a day; most all of th.em am
with some family in town.

Q. Are the yoong colored women generally inclined to work !'- A~
~es. )?retty mn:oh .all of them worka a·t se·r rie.e in private families..
Them ~hat doesn't, their ~other-a tak~ i~. ·washiu.g an,d 'they , elp them
to '1P'&Eih. Tben, som,e of tllem work 10 tbe tobacco factories .
Q,•. Do the youn.g f.o,l ks. many and settle d.iown,, generally·t - .· .· A
peat-many _get;~ ·married, bat a grea,t , many lives .single,, too.- Some of
them '' b,reaks ~e. ~ne down• (aa th.e old 'm an said),. and. everybod_y is
doWD on ~em 'f or a long time. A girl like that doesn't get any reapeet,ahle J?WPle to pay any attentio~ to her, 10 she often goes w.b~re ahe can
be patd attention to.. Some of ·t hem recover··f rem.·t llat etep :after·awhile

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

BBl,ATIONS BErw-EEK LABO& A..i..,tt CillTAL..
1

13

BIBMIJfGRill, ALA.., NO'lfflilJw 12, 1883.

B. KYLB ,sworn ,a nd uamined.

BoBBB!'

1

B ,y Mr~,PlJGS: ::

Qnest:ion~ Where do, yon residef-,A ·naw·er~ A.t Gadsden, E 'towah

Oounty, Alabama.

_
Q., Bow Ioug ha.ve yoq resided ,a t Gadsden t:..._A,.• Twenty·-six ye.an.
Q, Bow old is that city ·' -A. T.he ·town ·w as located abou.t thirty-one
:vears ago,~
~ Q. It has railroad. eooneetion with the .··. I .bama, G--reat Southern, I
belielel-Ai! Yes, sir ,; by the East Alabama Railroad.
~
,
Q. And i·t baa •Jso navigatioa on t·b e Coosa River I-A. Yes, air; it
baa steamboat commonioation with Rome,. Ga.,,and wi,t b ~naport, on,
. the C-ooea River. The navigation baa been 1lllin~rt11pted ~II thia y,e ar,
and I bel1e,ve that ie the only·ri'Vier in tbe Sooth,that has hatl oo.ntinnoU8,
navigation. We e&n7 the -,m ails there '.,··~th almost 38 miu ch NgnlaritJ·
they are carried by t· e railroadls~
.
Q. That 0oo&a Bivo1r mns sou·t hwest into the .A labama, which.empties.
· to :Mobile Bay I-A.
·yes, ,air.
·
.
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LUJDIJffl..,

Q. Pleaae t:ell ·u what indostriea arei carried on in Gadsden, and if
.JOU .a a, personall,: eoon~ted with aQY of them, s,t ate1which 't hey ,a r&-·
-. I am ,~
_ _........,.
. . .;a, _.t,.,L
L .- 1 - 1-......,_ • ,._,__ _.. th
~
~w11i11. ....
iW
G _umum: m..,1.-ua• _ ·ere. .o__._· -.,ne of
-·, th
~em,•·n, ,be
-_,.,
.IGDJrl to me. ~Jun
-_-:_ -- are tllne laqe miHa,:a t Gadsden. engaged in saw:-

•~•
1,
_ amber, yellow pin&
_.-·_ What is the capacity of those, mills in 't he aggregate!
1

-A. .A.boat

eo,OOO ·l eet, of'lum.bet"·a -day.
_
_
Q. _"'here do~yoa get yo~~o.pply of lumber t~A.. From the.fon&ta1

on the banks. of the Oooaa River.,
_Qa, Row~,,do thOle timber forests ~ d I-~.. We draw·our •P-·
ply ·f rom tbe foreats at ,a ,diatanee,ef ,f rom 8 to 8 .m iles on each.side of the
J?•• ;, we have foond onr sapply within that,distance np to the,PWDt

time.

-

Q. You mean that distance back from the. 'b anks of the river, not e:
or -8 mile.a up :an~_down 1-~ Oh, not 16 or 8 miles op ,and down.; "81
- .b-·.-_
er.uiuu:i
.A...,.......,..1'00
.
.•,I d
"'
get_..::
...u·
-_: _.- mii
__ ea np ·th-e nver
an d 30·
~
mtea,
- •_·own £'Iib. -e nver.
Q. Bew IOQg have, thoee, ioil.LJ been ronn'iog in ,Gadsden t-A... Abeat
·~
yearL T.hey oom,m,eoced. there .i n 1870.
Q.. What is y,o nr means o,f tr&uapoTtation for your lumber t~A. It
goes. ~Y rail.
~ Where are yonr marke·t,e l~A.. The_ma ket for the greatr 'bulk of
ou·produet is pnneipally n,o rth of tlte Ohio Biv:er. We exporG nearly
.f ~lftha of our product.
.,
Q. What ia the. ooat of transportation of your prodoct b,- nil to mar.t et.~A. The ,coat of tnos,p ortatioo to Olneiunati (which ia, the ob.
~~ve point sin.ce the OO!Dpletio~. of the Oin-•ti Southem Ballroad)
18 18 cents per 100 pounds upon box.ear material an4 26 centa on :latcar,.
_'9-· ~ they ~_gh yom I~~~ ~A. Yee,. Bir; they nigll it. ~ ·
~r_oad_a get abGut as _m1och out ,o f ~be transportation aa we •do,,o ut or
tile lamber; and when. 1.t goes beyond. Oinemnati the .raalroada ,get ·m,m e
1

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than W,8 1get.,

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

19

RELA.
f f01f8 BETWEEN
LABOR AND CAPJ·TA.L.
.

Por instance,. a. man comes wi'th his team ana wants to cultivate t~·ntyfive acres or land; be will probably have to pay a reut or two•·b ales li'f
cotton, and for that he· will ha.:v·e the nae.of the houses and of tbe la·o d,
but he ·will. ha .e· to pay the .l an,dl0:rid the two bales of eotto.o before he
can sell any portion of bis crop.
Q~ Wbat ought ·t hat land to p•rodooo . on an .a verage f;_A. It oogh·t. to
·~roduce 0n an av,erage .abou-t lo bu. beb ,o:f ,corn nd a bale ef cotton on ·.
-"'u-1
~,o-.-m~· tb,ree
· ·. Qil'!i~s
. t·wr,o to
1

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IQ

' -

. -·

a1'1.1& ,'Cr

!I

.i . m,ION
1 G
Po·.'DTT'llj
~ U.JIJAn&
- . - .piT:lin
.a:,_nLi""
· -· IU.i1'1
.· .
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'D"'G!
"V
D . . D\-\I"
. 1E
~ w
.Di"I

'ft"'GI,
i.D..D

"b
A · ,n'iE"·~
~ D •)

Q., What is the, relati.v e proportion or ·w hites, an,d blacks. in your part
of the. State fi-A, l'n 0 llr section the bla<,ka a·r e from one-fffth to one--..
s·ix,th. ,o f ·t he population.. .F or·instance, our cou.o ty votes about 2t.Soo, , nd
the ·n egro vot.ers, a.re fto·m 450· to 500..
Q. ·W hat. is the feeling betwee.n tbe whites and ·tbe blacks, in your
:pa t of' :yo11·r · State,. so :f a aa you have observed. i f-A. It is entirely
harmo·h ious. There i.s. no ·t rouble between them at all.
,Q. Hu there ever been anJ"1-A. Tll ere .n ever .h1as besn any.
Q~ Waa.t. is tbe oond.ition ,o f 'the laboring populati.o n there, wbi.te and
b:lack t-A. Do you. mean those. engaged in agridb.lto.re, or the other
laboring population~
·
_.
.
·
_ _
Q. Yon may state fi.rst. the ,c ondition of the ag.r ieoltnral laborers,- A..
.•. -I c-anno
· ·, ,· -·- t_ .s ·.ay- th
: - are·. pros
·· ·.·_ p· .·.·e· ro·us··
-· · JDS
•.". .- t. a ho
W e11-, ..mr,,
.... a t. th
. ,....e--W
__ , th·-,
____cey.. are
-.·__'"rft.,.
,u.u
making .a Ii-·ing, an,d that is about all tbey .are doing"
Q. Is there any reaRo·n why they are nut,prospe.r ous '! ~.A . No reason,
e. oopti.-o g w.ant of in,dusttY\ ~hat mthe on]y reas_oo I can see..
- Q. Wha,t i,s the1· . :sstem or·cultivation generally '-A. It ·1s ,g radually·
imp.r oving a Jittle. They are u ·ing more i.mp·roved i.'m.plemeu·t s within
the las.t two or tb~e.e years, and to, ·t hat erteu't, · h•eM is a change for the
be. ter.. Men w·ho ~xeroise .a,proper amount of industry andj'odgmeut io
the manage·m ent. of thei'r farm.s are d.o ing pretw ·well,. bnt those · ho do
not are not doin,g well, which I suppose is the ca~e in a11 parts of the
1

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Q.. In ·view ,of -the natural conditions..and advantage:-- of that portion
,o f be, State, what ought to be the ,s uccess or· th.e flll'.mers as a •ClaM ! A.. In my· judgment.,, it ougb.·t to be good, .aa, good ae anyw.bere in the
world!! Everytb ing ·is there that.is_req u.bdte 'to l!J&ke a p.r osperooa . ,grow..
i"og country·, ex,ee·p t active .a nd ·weJI applied iodu,s try., bot that ti.;y ,d o
not have to the ,e xtent, that they oug'h t to bave 1.t .
Q., Has, tbere been any improvem,e nt "i"n that respeet !-A... U · til the
las:t two ye.an there has been very little, A: · I have said, they are im1

1

· ow
Oi"Ptting
imp
.·- roved imp·Iements.
•ettin.
t-·D·p..roviu•
ei a · little
· ·
, I.:!!·-··
·
. , .e
- - --- g·• steam
· · -..
· _
· . .or 1.nstanoo,
.
h •· g 1
;"'ti'
ginea
for· t 'h·eir
gins
and: s~owin
some l 1.;i; ttJ
1 · 1· e d"'11pos1
· 0n to,
.i'mprov,e their resid•enees and t'bei'r 'b ;. ms, a: d other buildings. . For
·t he la t two, years the eou.n try is · oolting up ,somewhat, in. that respect.,
'B y the CnAmllAN:
Q. T.h is section of which y on speak is jnhab'i'ted prioeipally ·b y white.
men. I nderstand t-.· Yes, Bir; the ,col,ored. ·p opnlati,oo. is ,only abont
o·n&ftfth or· one~s1.1th. It is the monntai·u region of Alabama, aod the
population is principally white.
·!

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EDDC1ATION.•,

Q.. Have you paid ·aQy .attentjon to the, educ~ tion,al condition and
,o pportaoitiea of tb'.e _
people theref-A. Yea, .sir, .somew:ha·t.
,.

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

37

BELATIONS BETW'EEN .LA.'BO·R AND CAPITAL. ·

Alsbam.a i.s the d.a.aghter- of' Geor·g ia, Alabama reeei",'."ed a :form of
govem~eot :Lod a coost!to~on .frt?m _the ~ed,~ral G:overom~nt at Wash-·
ington i.u 18,1'9 ; we had.·t b.ela_!].,d sales lJ.ere in 1818ii. Tbel~nds sold then.at
from 1140 to ISO, per a.ere. I -'h ave s remembrance of tho eland .s at~.
The cooi·t itution was formed in 1819.. T·b e re.a.son tbe ·1and sold so-hi,g h
""·as -that there w· an impre .·s ion ·. Jl alon.g the ~-alt · J of tbe ·enne.s see
tha·t there was almo~:t no, oth.e-r land iu the country that woold grow·
<~Otton. · ·t that t.im ..'. ,, in a.11 t ·is coll'D.tr) , we ntade ouly from one bnntlred thou .· ·a nd to two ho11dretl. tbousand bales of co~ton ;. that was not
long betore Whitoeviu ·-eut.ed .hi . cotton-.-- ·n~ rrhel.an.d8 ·were. sold by the
. -ational Go,,.ernmen.t, anti. tl1e. people v.~ere mi . led a:s t.o their ·v.alue, ·ooeaose th~y thiongl1t they· ,vere fhe onl~ Ja.nds1that ·_ onJ,d grow ,cotton~
Tb.e cotton crop of tbis co·- utrv 'b.as but .a ·v ery brief · istory; six.t J · or
~even ~y .. ·ea1·s ago we 'l.~aisetl little or no -cotton ;. but, our pro{loetion has
gradually in-c reased u.n til now· i has got up t,o sev,e n million bales. .
The l~mds ·w·e re · , ld oo t b .-~ terms of one-quart.er of the p ·re.b ase
1»oney dow · .aud the bala.nffl on cr~it of one, two, aud thriee Jei!1'8 ;:
. 5,000,'000 or $16-,000,000 wort.h of land. ·w·as, eol,d on ._,uc~ termis. Tbe
Gove111ment. foand. ont tba:t there ba.d been a great mistake made as to
the produ.eti--eness of those lands, or, rat'her,, as to t'heir being the o,nJ.v
1
";l;D lUf!I
A :.... ·t_h at_ · ·o uld
· ::- n.n.t•":"-n
~ it"_
~..:1 tb.
··. fl.at,
.1.t.._ _·
p ro·d.' ·uce
~ tiU _ ., ,..0
_ it
_ _ ~v......
teu
__ e
... ~ _, U~IWl,
~ -_di. _, an·
. ·d
third pa_-·1ne-n.t s, aud tb.e· foo:r tb payment, w ,JJ m·ade th,~ settlin.g op of
the Ja~tl. Very lit.tle of that la.n.d., e·v,e n up in he wood,s, HOid for Jeu
·tha.-u i40 an acre, and much. of 'it sold for tSO an. acre. At that time
we we·r e in our infancy as a cotton--gruwing oouutr,~ Tbe production
. '·~4-i'iJ,, ''i i"con
"- - ,-. ti~··.
. c·. reaae
. , ,' .. .r,',..
- . ·. ._- .. , ,•• : ·t·.
. ··,· - on.''t_i~:1
. . . ,rrew
:,· ·. -. 'th
'~e
. .. l.,.lfFt;,
of·, COc,MJD
. nu, to
. _m.
u ,om
year _.o year
. we
. ..:,u
year 'before th.e war over eight h.u ndred thoasaod baJ.est Thiit, was, the
i-eport of tb.e. -c rop• that yea,r~
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~BE

-oor~o,~ oaoP-rrs: mca .·ASE.

o o· D'AIB:~..,
By
- - th
l..· - - ~
_•A.fA •iflA"'I •
Q. You raised .abou·t one-.ftfth of ·t he. w·h ole ero,p of the eountry, did
you not t-A. I believe we.di,d~ ·T he production o-f ootton oon.t ioued to
increase .endo.a11y. In 1818, at t'h e time -o·f th.e land B&le&, ·t b.e ·whole
Amerirtan cotton. crop did not exceed ·t wo b.n ndred thousand bales,. and
the. ge~eral i"mpressi.on was that ·i f that crop ehoold run up _and increase
to•'h alf a million ba1.es,. we would not know what. ·t o do with our cott.o,n. ...
It is a personal matter-,, ao.d. a triftin.g matter· to mention, but I am an
-o ld· m!a-n now, a d as I am _iving you tbi 'k ind o,f 'talk a·b out old. tim68,
I may a8 w,ell tell y·ou. that this scar· on. :my b.and [exhibiting it] was
made _by the ·ae. · ine. t at ,g inned the. first cotton that was ginned by
macbinerr in .A lab·ama.
Q.. Wha.t y,ear was th.at •-A. That was, in tbe winter ·Of 1816 or 1811~
,Q. Where was .it !-A At , ontsrille.. •. be _.· · t ootto · ,grow·n in
Alabama. was grown io Madison. Coo·oty, ·u nl ~ :s there w.ils a little grown
b;y the S,p aniards previously down where Mobile is now.. The:r e was, a
m.on.~ 1 popu1ation,,half negro an.d half Spanish, -·ho were settled de,wn
there before -o ur S-t ate constitution was form ed ..
_Q. Was cotton gnnrn in .any· of the othe:r States .at tha·t thne·:-AA
~o; Mississippi at that, time was. part of Georgia. The te-rritol3"· of'
·Georgia,, ae, one1of the ~ual States, extead:e d ·t o t'b.e ~ls.~issippi. River,
.and the States. of Alabama and Misaisaip,pi. are. the daugbters of old
Gemgia.
.
.- Q.. WB& the first cotton that _was gro·wn ~u this country grown i.o AJA.
bama f-A.. We. gre:w· cotton here as -e arly as anywhen ~1&& There
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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134

BELA.TIO·NS BETWEEN LABOR AND CA.I ITAL.

o,v,e r the: ground. ·v ei,· tboroughly we made u,p our minds to pnt i,n 1t.t
ne.g ro.1 We sbut our teetb,'1 wen"t to ·w,o rk,,, anti put him iHto th.· mni.~:,.
We di~cllarged. e ery ma11 we h,a tl about the mill and put the colorr-1
m en into 't be pu.ddHng,, aud ·i.nto the heating, and int,o tbe roUh1g d.-.
partm•en ts-into, e,.,,.ery· place ·b . ut the mi JI. 1'7e got a few w i te mtlft,
who were sk.i lled to w,or·k along wit'h 'th~ · , anti now w·e are workiug Un·m
right along '~ .gula.rly anil ~er1 en,~ s.fully~ W~ fintl 'tha~ t~e 001on,l
men., ,a s t)nddlerai (a very large cb1ss of iron worker.s,) are iully as g,r11 -1.
as white mt,n ; thei"r yield is as good, ;: they are ns steatly workme11 ; t h1~1are as ·r eliable in e¥e1:,- way,. ,a nd their 11r(Nl11.ct is, fullJ: as good a~ at1} ·
thing · ba-t we ha., · · got fronl ·white labor In other departments,. tool~·,.
ba,.e worked t'hem g·euerans · with ·. bite weu., We wuuld ha,e,'foi u•staoce, a · .'b ite ma.o ou. one side of ·t he ,r oll .: and a colored man ou 1:~1 ot.lier,;, w , wonl(l work them in pa.i~ in that wa_,. , and ·w·e have ·no ~litt1colty ,&bout it. 'The oolo~ed men have worked in there,. and I beh1·\·1
·t hat the futttre labor o,f tb is e ouutry in . 11 tbe- industrial departm,,· uc"
1

1

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mns't be ,colored.,

Q,. Skilled Ja.bor n ,- ·w ell as com · on labor·•·- A. Yes, ,s·r.

. .

Q Y , 11 'm ean in t,be, ma,n nfact11re of ir-ou t- A .. l es,, sir; I tbiuk u ·!...
oo,m ing to t b a·t ., a11d I fl'm · ers w 11 sati .· fi,ed..
_
Q. · oo anticipate finding iu the colored man as good ~-_ laborer as tli_t"
01 e for · · ·bom ·b e i.s to be 11b -titot· d ·T----A. T,h at has been. our es.pt"I Lenee at K ·o .· ville. W,e have, neve-r bad. more inr1ee.essiF' u] working of thr
naill than donn, . ·t be la t t o year ,, w·b en w·e. bav · bad ,c olored '1,d 1~ r
al 100 t .•xelu··. i ,. .~Ir. Tb · co'lorod n1 ~·n ,rork steadil·y a n,d there is a .to,n ,iJL
a·b unda 11 c _ of th e.1u. \ \-c ti U(l t'ha t In. ,t . atl of g-oi u g 1~ou nd and tu. hIi.::
sbort of .rueu, ,as we 1.1 ed to ·be.,. t be.! are al l\",3 J" bnlt4 a do,zen 1u~··t
standing ~ady to tok -· fbe 11,l a.~. if RD)- one ge,t s sick or di.ops 0111t if11·'
a:nv re·a~ou., aod the\· nre ·nrefu1 an I ~m eieut in, their ,vork~
Q. Ilow ·w ·,1 uy -- olored 1nen ha,me. yon emnplole(l there now ·t .......,;i;\m I
:,l ,o nld say ,._~e 11~1,-~ t ·\vo h 111tlre(l of tben1 in b · roHing~milI •
1

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. '· ' DLE.. t\ CHING1"

Q,j ··. her · are he, fro1u ~- ·\,. Fr, ·1,11 all u,- -ll"· that . ,ctiou of country;
ht fllct, firom all over tht- South, bn. ge·o erally from Eas Teuue~~p.
Yon take th coloietl meu nutl '"',~ou \\?.ill tiud cousiderab),·· differet('t,;:
auioug tb Ul. I tlnok you ·,xiii fint1 tlul i.u this, nru·thern ti r of S,t,au j
th•. ve bus been 1 ~rreat ,l_eal of t'he bleacli iu.,r J)rocess g,oi.n g ou for n g_rl"'l ·~
u1·tn~~ ,~ cu·~. a nd. tbere i~ UO\\, r,eaUy a great ·d eal of verJ· goo,]. hlt1u:l
n1n,n I g colo ril~f'l I ·.1sol ~ l.e ·i1l l f -- . •e, noi~t b.~ 'r l 1 Stntie~. , 'll n tl \\m fin,l soine fl ;t\'l•ti i..
l nt r11t~u u tuon~ tl 1{ 1u.. 'f i t ke ~l ( ~on~o ntigro ot' Jlur .~A ft·icuu bloo('l~,·•n•l
b, i.A ou ·· t11·i11g ; bu·t out t,f tht .s (., ,t~tl tn ~1·1 nu::.11 ":·it 11 tl ]utgP infnt- ~, n 1·~~ood w·hitt : hlnutl is anotlu.: r thi11 Cir-~1 ~t 1'·) · diff~1•,t· i ~t so1·i of u1an.. tM
, onm·~t ,rt· Un,1 thut ti e 'h ~fi; t dlno1 g th~n1 ~u· , tlu 1nen \\·ho n.t e pn. r1.r
~ 'l I Hl i Xt.it l ~
(~. .I lo you tJ i l~ -rrh1·1t th · . st fl ntiol1 of t l 1e ·1~1·1: 1or 1u ■o1J1eru lies in · h'i~
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hl~·i !•·ll'i u~ . 111·0,•,t•~...; ! - .\ _ ·o · h 11 t I ""-nY ·Illt l1 •:i.' 1 · · 1 .I, ·. ··t· , . .. ,.:;.,,..
onr • ■.X ·
J
1•r·]"I. ~uctr. ;..oli'S,.
1u· nt b~ a ~t l" ' :~ iH (· 1~1 s~.. ·1u .l ,., , pw:l"'t 1y t·tr~l· (•; ,a s:,.; o f t·t•l·
on_·I i llU-")I i u t'1 Ii.~ llo~·l l l( rn t U. o f th. :4n tU tu.'E"h ~ r at(·"'~· u~IJo ] Hl ,r,p, gt ( ?·~'
nn 't•h r-!'~! 0 tl hloH_tl i u ~ ht·1n~ or 11.1or~ ~o ~,l blood in ~ lu.·tn;, tbn1 the ,,-b U.,
pt:01tl "•·t o ha v been l'iYiug lu~1·t iu i~'t10:t"·:n1te ~,ud a1uong these 1nouu.tain~
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1~t ~,~ 01· . nr,"i,l!'t ~ '.,,. or .1111,v cT u111.·t tel
g ·t• '[ c,~
,t ~I l ~he ·' ,]ot·t~d Hl t· ll o f \'\"~~ I ,, l ~i,,~ak lHl \ - ( .i re:aU,r u1ui·· · nnttj,~"h I
to htu ]t t u1_ _t ha,n. t h<~s, . , \•rlri r i , I ◄ 101 ](. 'hn , rt.1 ,;; ~nu l ·i t ot·ru rs to 1n tl.1 n-t t h~,t
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.

223

BBLATION8 BE'TWEEN' LABOR ARD CAPITAL.

of' the. W~rrior· B·iver, a·o d more especiaJly· the upper part of ·th.at river,
I dPSi'm to state to the eommittee now that 'the Warrio,r and the Oahawba
and ·t he Ooosa were, l~y an act of Con,g reu passed on tile :23d. of Ma~ ,
1828-, during the Preside~cy of General Jackson, ,d ,e elan!d robe practically a public highway,. free 't o all ci.tizmts, of the. U ited States and. to
a11 .PropertJ1 of th.e U·uited Stat.es.. T.h at a,c.t further presoribed that no
rolls Rhoulrl be el er ~har:ged ·n pon tboae ri'vers, except h:y the di.meet sanction of Ooogress,'" Tba·t law may be ·foun.d in the Revised Si't atote ,
section. 4624, entitled ' 'Ri · Prs a: d h·arbors,11" As early a& the a.dmioistrat~on of' G . neral Jackson, a·ppropriations, were ·m ade for these .r i, ·ers
iu tb1a way: The~ was. a portion of' the pob11.o lands of Alabama,. set
i1part,, and the proceeds of the sales of those poblio ]ands, were set apart
1

1

£or the pcl"}lORe. of ·first building :a caual around ·t b,e. Mussel Shoals,
·,l"bich ,vork, I understand,,, was aooompliab,ed. B t the work did not
ilmoont to mucb, because it was not large •enough to admit lM>at of the
s·ize that ·were built ai\.er th~ improve.me·n t was ~ompleted, and the act
of Congr,ess ,vent on to p,rovtde·that any part of the m.ouey left after th.e.
i,011ro·v,emei1t o t be Mus~eJ Shoals should be d,e,voted to the boprove,m ~ut of t-hese rivers, the Cahaw·ba., the Coosa, and the Warrior.. . ow,
I undern.t and that,,u.n der the pro h1110ns. of t·h at act,. there was t.,I~,OOUor
1no1~ e ,.peuded away back as far as 1830 O·r lS&J· i · th,e improvem.e nt of
tbe, Up1 ·e1~ Warrior.9 by w·b ich hnp,r o·vem.. nt, 1 am informed by t,he old
J~eoplc wbo live there an.d who reoolle,,t i·t., flat boats ·w ereenabled to go
do,vn wi't'h coal.. .B efore tbat time not.b ing oould pass down at all.. But
bl· the im.p,r ovemeut that was t.ben mlMle ·O n the. Sq,naw Sboal,s aud on
tbe UJ•per Warrior ·fl.at boats were. enab]ed to ,g o down to Ho'bile 'With
eoa·1, cotton, an(l other prodocts, of t , .e country. At that time that
·regio,n · w·as perfectly sealed to oomm.eree,. hemmed in by :rugged mountains a.nd physical harr.ie.r s. almos,t in,p enetrabl,e., an.d it so continued o.ntJI
t.he Ollis,,·ille .aod. ,ash. ··111e Railroad built its line t ,11rongb. there and
,10\\~n to Moutgo:1neQ.:, thus giving the peopl,e ·r ailroad. facilities within
40 miles. The war ensu.ed a11d the ·bosi11ess of boat~·u gstopped, because
the people p,r elerrNI to haul their e.ottou aad other ·p roducts to th.e rail. oad rat.Iler than to run the risk of tbedaogeroos na · igatio: .. T,ha-tis,the
reason that. the bu joess of boatin,g ,ooal dowu 'the Up'J,e,r Wa·r rior ee~d"'
A ·· first aft & -th ·• war the-re was -no money·; fhe people that did this
basiness before tllA-'War ~were broken up and. some of ·tbem dead, and
:r. · .-. f rom
. .ti ·t.h
-.···.·
-. !'l.roa·d'. .cam.e
-_· , ~· so
. i- near,
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-· ·h· th···,
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ard1J--:
y
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h w h I"'Ie to
~ort_
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of· ·t...
ooaI d., own t·..h-,e n,er.
Now, I node..n ;tand that. e ·.· ecy time a-u B1p,propriat..10.n is asked of Con,.g ress fo,r tbe iiu1,ro'\"'"e1oen.t ,o f the .. ,p per· Warrior,, th.e· obJection is, mad,e
fhat there is no lKn1t·iug on the rive.r.. In faot I ba·,...e i.t from !erf bigh
authority that that obj~tion bas always 'b een made; tha.t people say the,
impro•v·e ment i8 ~ wurk of a pri,a·t e character, and tha't t'bere. ·was a
charter granted. by the State to a oompan.y· for t-he im1,rovement o:f tlle
"' .
T'h'·.at, 1
.~,s. a,
... .1act.. ,S"·. ac.b' a; c.. ·h,·a,.......
· . w,.a s gran.t~~-.:1, 'an
... ·d..·. was
. . .".. ,,- W·' .arrtor.,
U~
pper
~er
t1 ,icereoe .. ed by· the legislature;, but fonr·years ago,, when it . as u 'k ed
that it should be again renewed,. Jndge Adstill, of Mobile, a .m.e mber of'
tbe legitd.at11re, discot.,ere,d.this section of the Revised S,t atot,e s to whicb I
ha,r,e.called ynur attenti.o n, absolutely·makin.g tbe Warrior'River a public
higbw~v for tbe ben.efi.t of aII ·t h , citizens of the cuuntcy, an.d ,d eclaring
it i Hega1 to char.!?ft. auy tolls 't tpon.it ; and for that.reason. the legisila'tnre
refused to .g rant a reue·wal of the charter of that ,company. I d:e sire to
1

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bl.ake this foot public so that, it may be g,e ,nemlly known in ,case the.
s;tateme·n t ebonld agaia be made, 'before Congress that the improvement
,o f the Warrior i · a .P rivate wort... .Io. view of thia act of' Congress any
1

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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CAPITAL.

RELATIONS BETWEEN' LA.BOK AlfD

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work all day and. go t-0 school at, nigh.t for three hou·r s and ap pl3 them•
selves to the stu.d3' of those 'bmoob.es which wi,U improve tbf}ir· qualifieati.on ·• for tb,e work io w'l1ich they are, eoga;g~ Tbe scb"CH>l is atl'p..
ported by tl1e State..
.
The WITNESS If t,be teachers.in this S·tatP llia,d tbe.oppo1tlluits ·t here
would ·b e a ,,·e ry gi~eat impro .· eme •it in our sc.hool system,-beyond ·doubt,
l1ut it. requires m,one;y to giv·e 'them an opportunity.. So,m e tim~ ago I
bad quite a uu·ml1er o·r teachers eome to set me. to make inquiry· as, to
the best ,. -ay to imp.r .o ie ·t'bemselvesi They wanted t.o improve their
1

caJJaeity for teaching.. I have generll.Uy ffferted ·t hem to th.e oormal
schools, to Pi:of •·sor Patte. ~ ·on'· ·-cbool at Marion, aud Professor W a.Mb·
iu,g ton's at Tu . keeg',e& It was fro-m dow·n in tbat section. of the 1
S'tate
that these a1,,1llicatioo,s came to, me~
By tbe CBAJRnAN :.
Q.. D,oe . ..yoor calling br.ing you in cunt.a ct t-0 any e . ·t ent wi.tb the edoeators uf other States 'I -A.. No,, sir, boi I ,e xoban°:e with a good wauy
education.a l pa JJer.s. in otb .· r StateSc.
Q. 'T h··re are other edueat·ional pa:p ers in these Southern States,, I
R.111, .>0
~~ Y,-:s, sir1
Q.. Do yon ex,c hange with them t-A .. No, si.r ;, I don't remen1:ber any
in ·t he 8outl1 tbat I e. " -.a nge with1 1 excban:!e with one i11 N~wYork.
a:bd o·b,e· iu Boston~ 'T here· a~ . ,~ery itiw 'w eekly educational. pa.p ers·; I
bU.eve my own is the fourth in the United States..
Q.. d.o not wish to inquire int'o Joor Jlersonal ·b asioess1 but as, a
meanis of jud.gi ug of the intere·s t .felt by tbe, public in t be, matte·r oif'
education., I wUl ask you wbt!tber yot1. :find a geueral dispotsitiun to sust.ain t,uch. a paperl-A. Not so much .as I had e. p~otetl. · llaie been
'T,erJr much disappoi.uted iu that.. I l1air ~ suspen,led. uiy paper ·f or a fe,w
we. ks, bu't I sh.an begin it a,g ain next wee·k... I sltall begin. wit-h about
fifteen .h undred , ubsclr'ibe , _, ·
Q ls not t'b~'t n very good numb r to co:m.men.ce with 1- A~ It rs a
very good. n u ·ber,,,but tho• :e are not all teaobe,rs..
Q. '\Veil, ~t i . not hu,11ort·ant or de irable that all ou,r · subscribers
sb:oultl. be teacber.s, becanse it is, wen to fiud HU iot',e rest. i.o the subject
of etlneation manitest,e·d among other claLSS ·, ;, i ·. ·i t HO ,, _ ·_ • ,c ertainly..
.I did t hb1k of su,s1>eutl i ng the paper pe,rruane·Htlr,, bot I ha,'re ·hail :so
1

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many appl·i catious, and requests to •COnt iuue it, a11 d so ,rut.HJ"' nssnra,nees
that it had dooe a ,g reat d.eal of' good. tha·t I could not 'think of giving

it n11
Q~ Then the s'tate of tbe. case ftrst d.isoonra,ged J~ou, and then ,e ncour1' aged. 1·o u,. so tb at yon ba,.. e 1lriter1uined to resnme the J)U blieation of
,y our pape·r ·. ·- A ·y t!S, sir; I .h a,:-e lleeu so, n1uub gratified by tl1e interest
tlla·t has. been manife~ted in the 1Datter since the,sospec·t:;ion of the p.u.per
tba't I laa;i ,e de.term1n.ed to ,go ,on . ifh it,.
Tile CHA'IRUAN. They fel't the value of )~our labors all tbe time, hll't
the.Y did, not, saJ so until it beeamt'- 11t.--eessa1·y, an<l yon will probably
find t'he general interest, ao(l ap1-~reciatioo iueiyas1u,g all the time•.. 1"he
aupr hensioo that you may .o pend tb.e paper again. 'Will 1>roba'bly lead
to some m-orn eo.e rgetic efforts to sup,p ort it.
The ,vi~NES& I hope so~ If w·e ju,St bad. the m,oo·e y I think edncatio'D woold be. on a "boom,,. in thi=t State.
PEDEBA.L AID lJUT NO FEDERAL S,U PERYmION.
1

The t :aA1n·•&N11 And yon want an app,r opriation :from the Nationa'I
m-..-..
. . . : - . i_O~
·1r ·e_.d-11;ca.
;-=~nal
· purpe
-- -- - - , ses
.&.1.~DrJ
_ j"11V
__ __
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

\tr BHI A1rp' ·" He seu't ni-e a ,OOl)Y' a.t the ,san1e tiw • _that be sent it to tbe
pri ot~r', I te·11 yon tba·t 1etter made uie s·hed as bi ter tears as l e,l ,e r
1

s,hf-11 in Dl,J Hfe ,, ben. :r ealized. that I bad uo Jon! er a bO'me~tba I :as
ju~'t out in tbe wor:l.cl. I had a horn .·· the-r e in Rom,e, bu·~ I eould not g,o
·b ack t-0 it,,and. I · Vt"t0u1d ••'t ha e gone if I could" I s,t ai,d about two weeks
and then weu't back to, · tlauta. Jobn .. tou bad. been fallio,g 'b ae all · he
1,;bJle and ,Slaerioiui ha _ been ad'\'"auci.ng and. t'be Soutb _rn iteople ·f elt
mo.1,e au,l m.or-e d.i .conmged~ TheCe,nftu1,erae:ywas,l,eing 'Darro·w eddo·· n.
Teoue.ssee and Kentu-c .y 11ad.·been taken, and. the Yank.ees were ,o ver
in Geor,-."a I so1i,p086 Alabama, had its share of the trouble,.. but in
,G eorgia we thongltt vte bad e~r,,yt11iu.g and ,ever~ body from tl1.e otber
State& El"'er3tt-ui.ug and ,e ,·ery·b od,y .seem,oo to ha.v.e co.n.centrated in A~
l.a uta uutH the tu"rn. was :immense; ,people w-ere oro1vded .l ike sardines
in a box·, ~"inaU5 tho thne cam,e \Yben ··e eould hea.r S'he,rnrJan's gun.a,
and wben w·e kue,v· that it would be ouly a matter of a few daJs uHtil
he woul(l occupy 'the city·. Tbe gentlemen 'Wer-e all awaJ,. a~d the Jadi,es
of several :f amilies held. a consultation as to ,v·b at we s'b ould do--w hether
w·e bould go on 'further without, kno\\~iug whe1:~e to .g o to, beeause w ,e,
had no ,n ~,11s. of kuo"""i.u g tbe ront that 8her1nau was, goiug to take.
If be hail ontr beeu conisid(~rat~ enuogh to lot ns kno·w 1is int ..·otiona
.· e coul,1. ha\·e ~1cteruii11~d ,1th at to do, but we ,Y ··•e. all iu the d,a:rk., We
held ,a cou ·-· ultatiou,, nntl .m y .m other aull I ,tl~cidt!d that ,~e w·o uld just
stay wbe,r--e. we 1 er,~:- \\rc ~ .- ere ,~·ry ,c o1ufbl'tabl , aud 01y mot ber bad
her thi 1g . . th .. rt!, a.nd ,· ~on k.uo,r wo1nen are pro\"' e rbial fur· their'desire
to star \\ it1J tbeir " 'tilHng~" •. I had ft lt the bard . hiJ> of h _iug vla rtetl
frou1 iny t b:iu g . i1t Roni . , ,au tl I tli(lu't fee.I 1n.u-eh like goiug oJr a gain and
l a·, . i ng, lf anrma's t ldng~,,, aH<l ~- be di~ u · e1tber,. ,, \Ye just · . 'h ougb't ,, e
"",o uld be Y-er.r l.u.~t '\'e u1u.l ".ta~~,,·itb th . tn.. ll:r father bad ga:ue to Au ..
gu~ta ,Nonie tilne h~fure tbat, thh1l iuJ that this clima ,vats-oo i,[lg, a.ud
he had 1, titt,e u fo,r · n ~ to lca,,e evei,, -thiu_g and ctune. to lihu, but m1·m other was Y n~ n1ncb OJtJ)Osed. t.,o, that, and, as ba,,'e s · i-d, we tleci.d~l
to stay, T .bel'e· lti· er,e . e ,~era I ra1: 1i H,es t b '"t t ea me to that d~ei · iou .. By
anti by we got. .·11 tel .-.::ra1n. from my fatber ~asiug, "Coote on. the. first
train ; ba ,T . uo idea oil" ba viug· m,,T :l awi iJ~ depend,e ut -u · · .a.ukee aener..
oslt) iur br-Ptul.P l bad J1 ..a)'S been accns,tou1ed to do hatever my
father sai,J, t.iO I told my u1o'ther 'tha;t she1.uight do a-s sbep·lettSed, bn . I rvas
goin,:;·1 and I took 1uy cb ildreu and. w ~nt d.o,\v n to the train for Augusta.
'T hat,,vas. th . da.;., ~that 'that wot111les~ negro ser,r- aut Jim that I htt,:- e t,old
you .,ibout bt •:ked him e1f onto me aucl uuu.le me pay his fa.r e. 1\JJ· 1no he_r
.s taitl a \V ..eJ louge.r, until, ll).. appl,_yiuw to whoever ,va. ~ 'in c'h arge of the
-railroads, 8,h e ,sn,ooeeded iu ,bre:ttiu.g .·· 6".lr to trtu.1spo,rt ber inrni' ur . and
F

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things to .• ugusta, n.ntl then of coo · ~e.1s'h .· had 110 ·mo1~ rea,gon for sta1"ing
in Atlanta. lier ad,. i '" e·r in th·is was, ,au ohl Rome 11i ud,. a Ver.m onter,,,a
, e·r y br~r,.c- soldier ,,.,·ho bad be n Yvoutided at G·ettyij burg and .,~ ho lived
iu my family for a long 'time afterwicrd•. Ile, not beiug Ua.b-Je to servic-e
at an, was, j uttii' tb _1-e l'D the- bou~e ,vi.lb 1-ny .m other aud n1ysel£, a 01,I h,e
succeed.eel in getting her transportation to Augusta.. \V,e went (l.owu in
July, 1864, to Au._gu.sta, and ·nved th _1 o huddled u1,,·vt! ry uncon1.fortabl5 ~
'T.befl : w,a s no iet-½ to be had; the ·w a -. r in Au~u,s-ta i . oouxey,ed through
WOO(leH pipes, wbicb bad become d.,eeayett and were d ·cayiu_
g more and
roo1·e,, and there. ,,.. as a great deal uf suWeri_ng therie,, ,e specially am&,"g
tbe reiug·e es from ~·· orth G-eo~gia V."bo had be, 11 accnsto:med to· a higher
altitude1 a b~tter atmo -.p 'h ere, and pure1 \\~at-e1·. . We s11e·n t the ,s uw:w er
I;--·.. bu
u~nlillll,,0Qi
.o.red
tb
1,3 Iir,,a,', t-·her
'',' was
,, _·'d'0)m
· . ' Mt, n , fi'.,u;r~ . good
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·none
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•b·er· · peop
, · , I··e· d"d
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· t a.ll. ·~
h·e-.
. _e· 1•r1va.~1.on
. 1 . ,. w,i'e s· pe,u
_· u.
made·, I suppose,.. but we had all that tbe mark.et& affo·rded~ The p,ricea
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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BIBIDBGIIAK, .A.LA~,

...

485

:KBLI.TIOllB BETWEBN LABOB: AJm, CAPITAL.

li'ownlJJer lG, 1883.

ZE-KE ABCBEY (colored) a.worn and examined.
By th.e-CBUBMAN:
Q.u estion. ·W here did JOU live before you.eam-, to the mmea l~Answer..

In Selma, Ala.
Q~ Hp·w lo_ng is the term fo-r wbich .:rou are se·otenced l~A. About
, ix years, and three ·m onth.&, I have got about two y:e an an.d six months
to serve.
.
Q., What were _you. ,eonft'Ded for 1-A. In tbe one ease for gambling,
three-·months, an.d in the other for being .aece880.ry ·to a borglary,, ai.J:
year&
•. Q, Bad you ·a trial in either-easel-A. Yea, sir;: I was~ in both,
I think.
Q - Bow have y-o:n.been. treated mnoo you have been hem-t-A., , bav•e,
1.,....,...,,.0
~
......._..II prettv
e_·ll- ,'J., b
' ..e,t te···r·- ' th: a_·n 1·
· -. ·to· .......
a.AD
..,.,.,
W ,Cc'lilai.
_ I__ .
't .1· 'fntl!'·
-_ .ov·pented
ut:, ~Ated
LL'Cia ··...
· ... ·1· · n
_:__ p..i•
,,
Q.. Jut describe to us· how you. bave been. keated. What baa been
~

~

~s&. _ .

. -.-.· . I_.

&.IQU'

,.

·tbe ,co·u rse or lite that yon h•a ve led throa.g h the ,d ay._. and through the
week, a.n,d throu_g h the month, ,and thro~gh tbe. yea:ri--A. I came here
and staid until t:be 4th of December, 187'9 , m which_m~)!tb I escaped, .
but. I was a.gain -c aptured about t.be. 9tll oif llay, 1882~, Up to the-time
of my esea.p e-I b.a d ·been getti:og along very well. The work was,such
as I conld do" I had five tons of coal to ge·t out a day,, and I oonld
generally get it d.o ne by 9 or 10 o'elock; if .I felt like going· to work
·righ.t aw.l\V I could get, done by· ,9 o'~look. _ _
_
Q.. Tllat ·is, yon •c au do yODF da 'a, task in two h ,01irs, 'T -A Yes; sir
I never star in the mine after 11. o'clock. unless it is on my own acoooot.
Q.. Then.-yoo can. ·work faster ·t han ·m ost of ihem.t-A. Yes, sir; bn·t
all .6.rf't. ·e lass men gets ,d,one e.a.rJy·.
Q. Then the ·f irsklass, men get through fi.-r,s t~A. Oh, Yes.
Q. W.b at do, you do the. rest of t'be 'ti.m et-A.. Som-e.t imes. I eome out
and wa.sh and p,n .t oa. my clothes and. lay dow. ,, in the uelL Sometimes
I cut. :five or six w.ns formyself at 40 cents a ton.
Q. What do you do•wi.tb the moue. !-:A. Use it to ·h o-~- little extra
luxuries to make myself as.eemfortable as poasi'ble, pa.p e·r s, books,,pens
and ink, and so o:o,.
.. co
· LOa:"lli':'iln
opm'l"IU'T•
· ·»o":t.,s •o·T' Bf, :~0 T T'D/lff'D
.I. '"U""ii'Ul""l!
.a.
: ·.·.•
.· :·• ~ -~
a l l . ~S
·- T-' weo
,__•
..-~ 'li"M S'·, :O.'l~'tl'Uli!
1

1

1

~1_,.

I

... _I

~

..

,

, E i ",· ·I

~

_:

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'

,&l;"'I

Q.. Do you. save any o,f it 1-A.. No, ·. ·r.

Q,. o you not think you could save som.•e. of it 1f you wls,hed f-A.
Oh.,, y~a ; I could..
_ _
_
Q. Do•you. think it would be a good id,e a t~A. I ean always ·_ nd some-thing·to boy.
Q. ·y ou. :60.d. tbat there is -·. 1w.ays ,s omething that y,on have not
bonght'! -Ail Yes, sir,. always somet.bio_g needed
Q.. And :y our idea is that as fas;t ~ yon ge·t your·:mon.~y·, you most buy
something and keep on hu3!ing u.n til you ha-v e everything boughtt-A .
Yes, si:r ; e.veryth1ng I need.
QI Does it e:v er occur to· yon that it would be a good. i.d ea to-save a
~it~e-money for yourself when you are- older or· for th.e sake of some~Y -that. y-oo want to help t-A., Sometimes~ ~ ha e got .a mother
ttlat come.ft from SeJma to see me ,aometimes,. and . give her shoea or a

ooaple ,o f d·ressea sometime.a..
·
Q. S~e i1 getting pretty- ,old., I i&uppoae I' A.. ,Quite old..
·~ She ·m.~y :oeed m!J&eY more 8 1little. furth~ onr and ·woohl n,o t it be
wen fur you to 'h ave a,little ,s aved u·p , for··h er ,aake if not for your own ta. I alwaya preserve,a little,for her.

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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-

570

.U LI.TIONS B'E TWBD LABO& ilD CA..Prl'AL.
1

they are really bonest i.n. tllese th'ioga I really believe~that they think
us, inferio , .a nd. th,e only thing that we have. got to do is to prove our..
ae·1ves not inferior, and ·w,e hal"'e go·t t ,o do 1t ·b y our ,o wn foroo of char•.actei- . .B·ot it ie go·in,g to, ta'ke 1SOme time to ,do it. ·w e.cannot come up
all at 0000. with tbe load of ignoranoo, that we have to, pull against. I
a.m treated as well in ·t~bis town as I waut 'to be.or could expeet to ·be
under the cirenmstaooee. . I h ·v_e g_-~~-a _~a·t maoJr whi'_te f1:ieud.s , .and
1 ea:o get favors from the white people when I need ·t b,em. I go,
on an I try to make ·t he most ,o f mylielf; and try to behave :m5·s elf so
that eierybody will Hk,e me.. T'. ..at is. my pla·
do, not hate tll,e white
peop:1e. Of ooorse,. I fl el. sore some't:imea because. of the way I ant
treatNI, hut.it soon pa.eses otf. I -:hink it is goin.g to be a Jongtim:e·yet
befom t be oolorietl man •CO.m:es, up·, beca u.se he is very i,g noran t :a t p•resen·t ;
there is no doubt, of th._ faet but ·tJ1at as . mass onr colottd peo,1,le .a m
v r3 ignorant. Mr. . Peabody's. testimoH.Y iu .Mgard to them w.aa very
true.. There waa only one tbiBg· in i't ·t hat I woo1d venture to oou·~radiet ..
I tb1u·k tl1at the oolored ·m an haa a Jitt'le more ambit1o·n th.an Hr. PealJ0tly cred·i ted him w·itb. Some :lew of t'hem. ba,·e uo~ but certainly they
Hre ,?ery r wi! ,o f coane, if i·oo take a n1au without ednca·tioo he can..
not, well have moeh a1mbition, aud, as bas 'been said ·berelt it. is true of'
1110-11·,Y a color,e d man that if' be gets oo't, of hiti year's work p,l enty to eat,
plent:.r to '\1\ear, .and a good_u,·ely tjme a;t Ohrist1aas,., he is re:uJy to :_o
to wo1·1t. tor .a nother year.. Mr~Peabody drew the. picture v:e ry ri.vid'ly.
Jam compelled. to ,g ive him e:r edit.for that muc.h knowledge of' the negm
char,1eter .; but I wan·t to say that. I am not o·f that clB88.. I wa·u t. ·t o
have a.11Jt'hing t:h at any other m.a n :bu. I want to 'be what any· other
can be. Tba·t ·11 my ambition.
Q. \Vbaft bas rn.a de the. difference bet.ween yon and ·t he rest O·f thei
eolored me11 'in tha~ respect t-A. Well, yoa see I am andeJ" the ban,,
and I am compelled to '·' gallop,." M we stQ" ,down be·re.. I eannot get
out of it. I am a ~·olored .m au and I ha:~e g,o t to make the best of 'i.t-.
Q.. Bnt what .b as mad.e tbe difference bet.w een you. 1n 11espect 'to ambi
tioo,. ao,1 tbe other low@r and ·1ess.,a m'b itioos class of •colored people '!- A.
.
I. ,_ am of- m1:Xeil1.
"' . . ..11 bl- --.:1 myseI"'
I_ rec,_k-ou 1··t_: 1•._, my w1
'h 1te
'"
I d-1 0,n"t k-.now.,. sir.
- uuu.
!I.
blood ·l ighting against t.he e.olored ~lood. I don't know what it is; I
josit know 0 ne thiu,g1 tb.a·t I want to be 11·hat any· other man can be; I
want to be an honorable citizen1·; I want everJbody 'to respect me, and
I want to, be. as m.n eh tllonght of .a s any otb:e r man can oo ·tboogb.t of~
Auel so far as havi11g· mo11ey, I wi -h the Board of Education would give
m:" a 1ittle n:1ore 1
sal'a ry and I would. show them how to accumul.ate som1e
·i •

1

1

1

1•

1

1

1>ropert·.~r.
,,

li

Q. Uo you want F,e deral aid for the. education of your people t-A.
Yftl air; I want a,1 the m.on.ey I eao get. I wa·o t to be paid ju11t u
mnub 38 my Jabt r it1 worth
Q~ Bow bav;e you been trea't.ed by tbe, trustees 1-·A. I ha,v e been
treated spJ.endidJy. I 1t,.a1 e n.o etl'1n11laint ·w hatever to make against the
tro -.tees. or·.coune oar people ·p ay bot very little tax, an.d the burden
of sap.p orting the pn'bHe schools faU,s ou the white people,, aa ev~ry rsensible man knows ; of C011rse we do not get as mne~ salary as the wbite
!Deni. ah1n d under the ctd.._med:
don't k11ob": 'tb~h-att ~•f-~t• ~to
-_ e~~td~~-to.
1t.
._,ave never etu -_ 'l _ u;..1a IQ&ii11e·r very m.nc ·.; _·o _. 1 '1 •. 1s · ·~ w
mined •On the basis ,o f taxa·tiou, we, cerhlioly. are, not eori·t led to it, 'beeaase, we do not pa:y ·n ear so .m uch ta1:e1 as ta~ •~m ~pie; we a,re.
oot able to pay ·6 0 much.. :B ut, ever,thillg een,11dered, we,.have the W
1

1

•:y.~t&o~!
1

ill

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6.tO

1

BBL&:TIOlfS UTWmllf LABOB A!iD ·CA.PITA,L.

day-•work .and oigb.~ .. ·o. k too.. I have got the. oontrae:t or lighting· ·t h~
city,, and do that. of ni1hts, 18 0 tb;art helps m.e out .r i,gb:t smart, bu·t I
h.&ve to lose right smart of sleep to .a tte·n d ·t o ·t as it abonld be done.
Q. What iB yoar age:l~A. I am tbirt,~··-seven ,y ears ,ol d. I registered.
1111 oa•m.,e..as ·t hirty~ix, bu.t since then I bave come 'to be thirtJ;;·eeven
,yeam,of ace.
1

1

COLUMBUS,
STAT.EMENT OP KR. W

GA., NmJm116er ,28,,, 1888,.

i'. POOL.

I approve of tbe idea1of our Government ba.ving a committee. •OD ed.ueation and labor, and think th.at pe-rha·ps it is, possible to ~o more 'to
beneftt onr· coo·n try ·i n that w~y than i:n any oth~r at the present tlme
A pr,o per ditfu ~.on of knowledge. pplicable to each indns.t ry :no the
Untied Sta:fres would d.o more fo,r labor than .a fJrotective ·tariff'.',, I think
a hundred fold more.. .· . soffic.i e•n t reward by tbe. Go .e,rnme t for the
best and. most eom1p1ete ·iuifo,rmatioo.on each. industry uow iu the United
States, or· tbat is derdred b~re, and socb iuforw.at'i.oo ·p ublished by· the
Gove.rn1nent .and dis.triboted to the ·peo1lle ~ould,. perhaps, be the best
investme11t, that, could Joo. mad,e for the 1.eo,pb,..
.
1

I have no doob,t th,a t , ehools. of industry witib competent teachers·or
one. or ·t wo good meu. added to ea.oh. of ·t he many State. and other uoi.
vendtles ·would a,d d still mor-e,. ~nd perha.p,s one good lectnre·r on each
1·... borer
,., 1 •'illstry
to
-· e;-'
a.-a fro
· ui ■ ,p·I•·~. . . . . . . ..1,.1,V
. . . pl·
d!DA wo
'lm"onde-'·'"·ID.f.u.1
. ·.. ,_;
__ • u,~
·;--n.1
_ -,d
·., _; ·1
_·u1·or
. · -.m
· ·the
, . u._i
: .
.., · : . 1·i.u l. ly
· ,.
1

.

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-

COLUMBUS, G .,
1

Nor,em,'6er· 20, 1883~

H .. -w,. B .ATTLE sworn and examioed.
By the 0HAIBMA · :
Question. You .a m· a res.ideot of th.is c.ity an.,d .a l•e aeher, I believe,_,
A.usweril• Yes, ,s ir; I have b . en ht'ing here iun.ce 'ten years ago the 1st of
las.t October.
THE sox·o ots: OF COL UHBUS~
1

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II

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-

-

Q. What is ~·oor relatiou to the scboo:Js of the, ei:ty 1-•A. I am P.•r ioeipa.L or t,be .2 ir'l,s ' wH'ire &cbooL
Q.. You hatv • llean~ much of the testimony that has been given here
and u.nderstan.d wba·t kind of in.form.atlon w,e . are seeking:. No·w, we.
.sbaU be obHgell to, you ·i f yon will go, O•n _nd make snch a s,t a.temeut as

:vou think proper .·. bout the 1Mehools o,f this t,1ty, y,onr own in parti,cular,.
1tbe. COnd'ition of ~the schools of tb.e B,tate ge:n era·11),,, 80 far as you know
:i.t , both fhe whit .· and. the black schools,. and also~ any 1 og.geetions that
OCCur to yon as. to uhanges. th.at are desirable in . yoar edocational 8\'s.tem., anti-as~ an)~a.id tb_a,t ma~r .be _needed to pro_mote t·he ,e_a use of ed~
ocat1on in_·1his S,t ate..~A." W,ell, sir', our _eiry school .here ia lq)er&ted
upon a ditrerent plan trom the oommon schools of the 1S tate,. Our aye,.
tem. is. a. good one, ,a nd is. wo.r king along very nicely .and. pleasantly._
1

1

1

HOBA.L ·T BA.INING WOT IGNORED IN ·T BB SC!HOOLS.

I w·a a present when Pmfeasor Glenn .gave bis tes·timeo5" in regard .t o
the schools, .a nd in an1,wer to a qneation.as to the moral trai11.ing .amd d&

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.

7.52

KEl,4.'.' fl,ONS .BETWE.E N

LA.BOK

. ..;

A.HD CAPITAL.

Q. If you shoul,d make tile Px.p erim,eo.-t "'OD tb · redueti.o o of half &11
h
-'-our,1
.· . ' ,......._..._i.,'P,
'
'·t"h
-'.. lll1J,' I-an.•
'' d, a. half
' ·d·.a-i;].' . 101
• . tealfl,A
.. ·•·f..
e1
-·, eveo
.• Io-.....,
'h 'llrl,l_ ..
do·.
UHffi,Joig
.- e., ho
toD an
...
-_. M1 o
you believe t~at ,y our ope·~ tivea, under the _etimulos of getting ano~er
ball_hoar, ·m1.g ht work a1little bU11.er than they do nowt-A. Portions
of them .m ight; bot t'h~se who woT~ by tbe piece are auzious to
make all U.U,Y _can. I can tell 3;00 of a little _e:1perimeut that we did
for ,a certain time. At 0in,e penod,. ·fo,:r oortallD reasons, we ran onr mi, I
du.r iug tbe time aUow,ed for •dio·o.er, forty minutes. Oirou:m.stan.ees mad,e
111 think tbat1that was. ·n.o•t politic. Some,of the girls brought tbeir din,.· ·
ner with them aud. woTk.e d during 'the whole hour.. A . good rua.n y of
f ,em pro·~ested. ag~lnst th.e -.toppin.g· of tile m.ill during· the din.Der 'b oor
beeaw;a.se- .· hey •c ould, keep on worki'ng,. but "the clren·mstanees were such
tllat we did n~·t ·want to 'f flD. the miH dnri,!ig th~t f9)1:J minates, so w e
ampped i't, .a nd I dou't, thi'ok w e lost a smgl,e y.ard o,f cloth by that .at(Jp,
I

'7i

1

1

,-,e.

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1

Q. lt wooJ,d ·be 'l ik,e ly to 'b reak up the health of a ·h uman being to
work and eat through the dinner honr r,egularly, wonld it ·n ot f-Ai We
d·id not nm.the mill for the sake of the cloth -that. would be prodoced
in ·t bat time~ \Ve. ran it, because. it waa a, d.i fll,e ult ·m atter· to sb- t down
the w·beel, bn.t w·ben. we ·p ut in new ·whee·1a we, were able to sh.n.t them
do,wn., and w,e did so, a-nd · . d,o o't think we lost a yar4 of cloth by ·t b.e
aoppage at noou, because I thi.nk it•was made clear that tbe help di«l
more. work iu tJJe e·1eveo. boors than they had ·b een doiug· formerlj in
the eleven hours, and fort...· m.io·o tes..
Q .. Working bl" the piece, au, iudivid.ual is as li'ke,ly to O\""erwork him.~
. -to 1os.s·
■,
,
h.,
aeJf·.. 88 h_1s
em.-p Ioyer 1s
t l1pon overwor.k.1ng
. im, •. h e not-.' .........
1

1

1

E

1

.

1

A .. Possibly..
Q.. What ta your ,e xperimice . s to the empl~yment of 0hild labor~
A. What do you .mean. I
CHILD' LA.11O·& .

Qj I mean 1s, it a goo,t thiog aooordiu_g ti0 your experience that, cbil~
1

dren of from ten to fifteen year,s of .are should work in "tll.e factories!-

u •OJ
Di,r"'
I th;·o·k
· 1'"'t l~gj
A_ Y···e·,iv,
· '
~ Do you think it is a good thi11g that they should work eleven hoon,
a day all the year aroond !-A~ think it would. be better for· them if'
they were not compelled to work at all,, butj!!!!!!!!!O!!!!!!!!!!!!!I!
_ ~ (Interposing.) Yon would want ·t hem to work a part of the, time
in order to Jea,m a business for life,. ·would. you :n ot !-A. Yes, sir. Oir.
oumstances now· force 'them into ·t he mill . ~ They oome io wi'th their
m.other&
Q. .I understand that, as a matter of fact,1in the ·p resent eondition of
theee people. i.t is a neeea ·ity tba·t they shall ha . e employment■, and ·t hat
tbe employ·m ent of the, ehildEen of a family ofteot,1mes prevents the
whole.family from 'becoming pau.pers.; l1u"t setting aside, tbia•te·m porary,
neceui~y, do you. tbink it w·eil that children between the a.gea of e.ay
tea and :f ourteen y,e an ,s hould be required to work more than aboo,t half
the time ·in a factor · I-A. Well,1I don'·t kn·ow· that I can .answer that
question aatnifaetorily.
don't know whefber they shouJd ·oo ,comP8Ued to work at all in ·the, footory u.Ble.sa cireomstaneea.made .i t neces11ar_y,.
~Q. You think, I anppose, that it 'Would _be better for, tb.e children to
bave a ehanoo. to be on.t.doorsT-A1 Yes, si'r.
Q. .B •u t the teatimoo,: , is tllat many of those ebildren seem. to enjoy·
'tJ1eir work in the. fae.ro,r y·. -A. t _)h, _
yes. lt .is. n·ot laborioaa. wor •, and
i ·t is Dtl·t contin·uo·a s ,; here is m,ore or less rest. u tbey go along..
~

<__,

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•·

BBLITI01'8 BBTWBBlf

u ·aoz

AJrD CAPITAL.

845

.,,

wife, "Yoti mnat, t,eJJ AahJey why tile govern.o r beb.a:ved in anch a
w.a y.• "-No,• aaid ahe1 '·' ·.I shall m~e no, ueue whatever for .i t; I ,4G
!),Ot appm·ve of 1~i I n,e.ver to11eh it; I ne·ver tha~k anybcxly for ,d ri.nk~
1ng my health; 1r _y-o n wa,ut to make .any e1:pla;oat10os, niake tbem your-•
selfl' Tb,e father_undertook to exp·lain to•the son, aud &aid, ".·\ abl,e y,
di.t i y.ou. &Pei ho~ the governor beh,a.,•,edl at ,d i.n n.e rl That • ·• because
lie t~·k four glasses of ·w ine, ao.(I it1·m ade. him drunk." _''Then.," said.
the boy, ,~you.took tw,0: gluses., father; soyoa w·e re balf drnn.k." ''·N·o,.
nu," said tile -fathe~, '' ,I was not half d·r unk; you. must not say t'ba·t
about ,y our fath~r;" a.~:~ tb.~·o _h e sai.d to .h is wi.fe, '' Eva, do tell b~.mE
I do not want h·1m to. think that v.. . ay of me." " 1 have no e•x1>la-uat-1on
t_o ·m1ake,"' said she-. '' I do n.ot make aoy explanatious.ore coses. fo~
dri.n kiug one glass, OT two glasses, or ·t hree irlaases,, or· four ,g lasses.''
So,:b.e signed the pledge. Tlt~ey wefe going to have a: dh1ner' SOOn after,.
.and lbe sou ,s aid,, "Pai.ta, are· you Hot goiu · ·to,have any wine t" "No,"
said tile father,.,, we are. not going to ba,,..e any wine; I bave ~tgned
tbe pl,e d ge.'" ,. Ob,, I am 18 0 g Jlad," said the son., " for ,yon uever will.
be half drook again.'' That fatlu~r .sai,l to me, "I coo·l d not be. fore,..er
dodging my boy,aod I woul.d. u.i ve 1·100 if be wonld forl{et that nia'tter..~
·0 th, .l thiuk t.hey have a ireat educat:ioual iuftu· nee, these Bands of
. Dope, 18 0 01an,y bo,y s come i.ot-o tbem ji T·heu w~ ha\"01a deba'ting sooiety
in oonbeetiQ11 with the Band or Dope, an,d we ha.v e blackboard exer...
etses1 a11d ·we .i hMtruct the ch'il:d.reo 1n p.bysiology and tell t-bem.of the ev·i.l
ej[ectM of al.eobol, an,d then 1: h~,■ .h ave a r•lk about it and a de.b ate. A
~ntleman ,came ia and gaT""e lb,em. a subject .; oue ,s ide ·w as ·to ,Rpeak
against te·m peran.c e and the 01 her for ·it. Tbe hoy t'ba-r. w.a s ·t o s.pe,. k for _
it came- to, me..a11d. aaid, '•·)lr&i C,h apin, 1 . it ·not a very ,s ingular thin=:
:for a grown man to tell a boy who is not «rown, '·If I was ,-:■oa I would
raeher be ou. the other side, beea·ose. y.oar·sbl~ i,s so trite t'" Bo _·e ,,.er, he
went ahead and made. his. sr,eech; _l toJ tl 'bho w:h~t to, say. . e said,
1

1

1

1

1

1

''·You bo)TS, e.ach ,ot· on,. wi!I probab·ly take .a prore io,u. 1: ow, if you.
want, to be- lawy·e ra I woal<I advise ,y on t·o go a.ga.inst' t-empemuoo, be..
!

cause .a lmost all the ernnes t-bat 'l°be. law)~e.rtl .a·r e emi"p1oyed. to, d.erend.
people for are the result ·!Jf i11tem1lera'tH,e.. Almost all the murders
com.e.from. ·i otemperaitce·. ·11eu do not, steal unless they are i.utemperate'" ; anti BO on. '•Then the dootun: if,yon W!1Dl t .o bedootora yon ought
ta go aga.i"nst temperan.e e, becau.se. ba:lr tbe di&e88PB, in the world l~~me
from dri.uk. Theo the 1n1·i,niHters.. Tbere. ,v·ooJd be uo neet'S11ity ·for
p:reaehin_g· but,for·intempern11ee, because then ·en and tbewomeu aud the
ob.i ldren wonl-d . be BO· happy tba.t the mille11·o in.-m wuul.d come, · _ntl. there,

..

would ·!>e oo u~ for m:ioister& 'The~H all w~n ~
l'ove to hav,e womanly·,
gentle. loVt,·l y wives. The bes:t trait in ,a, w·u man's -olutracter·is alfecnion.
No,w,.. how· beana_fol :1·t is to see a. lo\"ely 1,o nog girl, when her hlhbaod
com.es 'iu at 1~ o'clock, after dra:ggin,g all through, ·th.,e g;orte.r, wi:pe. ·t be,
mud r-rom bis face, and pu.t.a pill.ow :u nder· bl bead when :i t-1a too bea\"'y I

And I would. atlvise the uoytt not to become tem1.temn.ce boys, bPc.i1.-use,
·i f tbe)9 •d o tb.e y cannot ha ~e t_be oo 1efit of so.ch at·r entions fmm. their
w:i'vea . " He 'w a& delig , ted. and be maile a splt•ntlid t1-peeeb. lie tbou•rht
it,was bis ,o,wn, yon.know., bot I gave him the ideas, and he worked them
., to
·.··,
8nP.Mr
.~ ,b,
m
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,A

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Q. And so the work g~ on t-A. Yes, I witnessed .a very sad ,e ase
tlla-t 1ou1de. 01.e leel that the wo,1De·n ought u, go "nto this wo·r k. People1
aay, what have women got to do with itl Why, it iH more Jor the hen-...

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