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COllllrrrEE OF THE SENATE
'UPON TBB DLATIOJrB BmwsD

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48tH CoN·G BESS.

BEBRY ·w. BL.AJ~ o,f New Ham~ ·OatJIUl'.tMI
WILLIAM .M"ARONE, of Virgin.la,;
WARNER MILLER,. of . -_ ew York _;
:NELSON 'W ALDRICH, of :Rbod,e Ial1n4;
TB.OMAS U . BOWEN. ofColot"ado;
JAKES Z~ GEORG·E, of'MiMieeippi;
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J .AMES :L;o PUGH, o,f Alabama;
.TAMES ·n. ·GROOME, of'14u-Jlanff..
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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AN.·o c·AP·1TAL
TIB'E• RE·· LAT·10·-· Ns·· B
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THE SEN -- TE ·C 0MMrrtEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR .

.Feln-aary ,5., 1,883,.
The eom,mittee met at 10 a'". m.. Pres~~ the ehainnan, Mr. B,l air, and

WASBIN'M

·O'N ,

· r. George.,

Tbe CEATR.MAJr . We have_met this morning to proceed with~ jn..

't"estigation directed by tbe Senate ·m the foll,o wing i,esoJ:ution:
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S1Df..&.TE 0:P TIIB UlOTJtD 8 h t .A-up.d'71 1881.

Buol~, Tba · the, Committee :e n Ednea~ion and ~ahol' is_henby authonmd an~
dii ct-ed to take into, ooneiderat~on th& enbjeot ,o f be ,n ,Jat:ons, 1
betwoon lalKn~ and!
ca.pitaJ, the waps and. hoDJ8 of labort the, ,c ondition of tbe laloring cla8888 .i n. the
·u rd:ted State~.a·n d thmr :N lla" _·e condlt10:n ad 1',SRM aa eo~_p ared wi~.similar c'!aeaes
abroadt ~ -d to inquire into the division of' labo-r and capital. of then-·joint procl-11(1110113
i o th@ United States ; alao,,. t'he au'b j&et of' labor 11t:nkee; and. to-inquin into,the ,~ Q868
he~of ~nd_tb~ ~~nc_i,ea :111vclac-i ~g_tlle a.me ; and ~ :r eport: wh _-~ l~t~en ahomd
be ad,o pted to, modify ,o rremove saoh can _ and provide agamat thlm' continuance or
1100. rrenee, as ·w ell u ,a ny other I -,gialation ~c.tll :te.d to _promote harmoniom relations between ,e ,p,i:taliata ,and. l a ~ and th,e iDtereata of both,. by·the,impmvemenfi
of -the con.di tiou ,o f the induatrial classea of the United ,Sia.tea. ·
Seoo mid Said committee ahall 1Ja·ve1leave to ait in _·acaoon,, _114.·by ,snb...e.o-mmitteea
~-o _·v ieit noh pl e.ea.iu. the United S:tatea as t '.he.y ·m ay deem p.m pe,r , to -o btain n ~
i'nforma-t ion •~d,e r these .resolntioD1 ;, ad said eommittee ,or au'b-committeea ahall have
po ·__·er to send for· pe:raons and. papen, ·t o admiJJister oaths, and to
and,er- oath or otherwise,, and. to eao.ae deposi tiOl18 to,be takeri .a nd cert:Uioo - _. er each
'f t!jt~latious ._ · they IOay adopt..

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Thim., Said. committee shan have power to ~ppoiut a elok. at-a •1-J·efl6 a day,
and to employ,nch__ataograp , i.c ·'i d as may be Deceeeat7, and. to appoint; a ,~geant,.,
at-arms fro.m 't be ,o meen or em.ploy,' 8, of the Seu. ·:te ; .a nd t he acitJ ._ and neeesaary
e · p n ·· , ,of' said committees, 11roperly incurred 'in the execution e.f theae-nso 11·tion1,
ab 11 be paid, e.nt, of tbe ,e ontiu,g'6'.Dt frtod o-f t:he Senate.,
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W A.&UJINGTON, F ~ 6,, 1883..
. ·olJE&T D.

· - -YTO ··,. sworn and examined.

By, the O:aA.IRHA.N ::
'Q tt,C$tion. W .b ere do, yon reside t'-Answer,. In Pittsbw-gh, Pa.
Q. Ar-e you oonn.ooted wrth any of the labor o,r,g anizations of t'b e
eonntry I' If so,1pie se tate w,-hat. your connection i ·, anrd wi h what
org.a niza'tion ...........,A . I am. connected with ·tb-e .K nights of ,L abor 01.. North.
Am.e-ri.,c a ; I a:m the Grand Sec,retar:v of' that order.
Q. What :1s t'h e extent of that- o~ganization I D'ttes it ioelu.d e o:u ly
this country,, or does 1t, extend to any territory ou.t side of the United
1 O,_,,,(fi .L AW),

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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~·. ATIO"Jl]I'~
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Bute~ •·- A. . O,u organ"zat11.on extends over the Uu "ted States and
C.aoada"
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Qi Without asking· yon to go into any matten1 wh·i.ch yon may thi.o.k.
proper not to me·nt10D h re, I wi11 a k .· ·o u. to gi,..e n , if you please, a,,gene.ml idea,of'the objec. .. , por[POSes, .and e. t.eut.of tbe organizat~.o n know·o
as tlte Knights of Labor of .· 01t.b America, M ke tbe,statement i'n your
o ~n w.·_ y, and as {iu1ly as yolt ·..·.e, fit.- A .. Perhaps I can give: it to you
10me fnHy and ·more accnratel.y by r 1 ferrin.g to a. ·pa:mphl t which I b __ ve
herr~, which se.ts forth. our aims aud objects :a nd what we .h.ope nlti~
matel,. . to aeb :,eve.
llr.. GEORGE1 I that an ao.tborit.ati -·e atatem.e nt t
The \V.t:T1.1: ~ss . Ye ·, 1S.i:r; I will read tbe p.ream'ble. 0ur objects are,
as stated. in tbisPreamble:
IF To 'brin_g . ithin. the folds of organiz - t· oo every· dlep~ment of' p,NKl:oc -~ve, ·in1

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maki k.u ~, ~edge&•!JU!l~poln1t ~er ~ti-~~n, _an~ i_n~u~trial, mo ·
wealtll, the true 1ta11d· , of 1nd1v~dual_and..national ~tne88..
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w,OJ'tb,. not

II.. T,o see. re to the toners a proper ebue,of t:be wealth that t&ey oreat:e ; more of
the, leia111re tbat n ,g h.tfoUy be,l oop to, ·t hem ; more ,aocl.ety adV'antace& ; more of th~
be!!~&ts., privile, _· , ~D~ ~l~en.t s of the_w~ld ; ~ a. ~ ~ thoee -~ hta ~d
pnvileg ·neeeaea:ry to make them_eapable of 61Qoymg, appneiatin,g, defendlng, ana
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pe~tuating the bleuin,ga,of g~ gov~ment .

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m~ Te arrive •~ the -t:nu~_.cond ··t ion of ·the~ p~nei.ng~mlll58e! iu t}leJir e.duca ona1,
moral 1,.nd fioue1al oombtion by demandmx: from the -vanou, Govemmenta ·t h ..
- ·. bl-ebment 0f Bmeao.e of l ho:r statistica.
IV~_1he eB'tabliebment of co-operative m_
stitutieu1, pr9(1.uetive and d.istrihut1ve.
V The reaon· g ,o l the_ pu b:lfo ,l and.a-the .h eritage of the people--:ro:r ·t e ae. .a l
•tiler ·; n,o t another .acre fo~ railroads or 1,peenlatonL
VI~ The ~ tlon of' : _I laws ha do not bear e1~ upon calrital and. labm·; the
'!"111,~ ,a l of ·DBjae . tec~ieal1tiea, d,elaya, an.~ diaorlmm•tica.,n in fie admi~istration of'
Jumoe,; .a nd th adopting of meaames pmVlding·for the health and aafety of ·t hoae
-~ ·~ J u mining, 11U1Dnfae,turing, or bu·ldiug panmia
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· ~·~r~ The e~~·- ent O! ~•~ to compe~ ehariired oo:~ ~tio~ to pay ·t •~•emplo,-6-.

weeklv, m fnH, for labor pemhmed Efurmg the preceaing week, m tlie .l awfol .mo;ney.
of the oouotry.
VII:lp The en .·. ,· Ont ef la,wa giving :m.eohrmi.oa • nd ·1aooren a.fiat Uen on their
,o r · for ·t heir· ftt1l wages. _
_
ll., Tbe abolishment of ·t he eontraot aJB(iem on natie.nal1 8tate.,, audl municipal
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Wot'

L The 1suhatituti,on of arbitration for 1Btrikel\ w'h.ftll.ever and wherever emplo,ers

and. ,employ61 are willing~ .mee•t on equitable ~onu.
.
, ~· ~e pro,b i.!J,·i tion of·~the emploJDlOD.fi of clill.dmn io. w,o .rbhopa, minea,, faoteriea11
&.e., beJom attaining ·t lleir tou.m1entb year..
.
XII. To .abo.1~sh the system of· Jetting uu - by oontract ·t he,labor ef OOllTI.Ota in our
~118 and .r eformatoey iutitu.tiona.
·
Xlll~. To aec._ re for both auee equal pay Cu ,eq_ual work~
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XIV.. T.h · Nduction •f . · 'h Dnn ef labor to eight, per da,·1 ao that the _ boren may
have more lime for 80Cial enjoyment and intelleetoal im.rnv~~t, ~• .:W,. en~bled ~
rea,p the ad an tape,conferred by tbe 1 oor..y,viag machinery wbieb their bmine have
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XV . To prevail upon Gov,emments to,eatabliab ·., pn.re1y national cirmtla~· medium., iesued directly to t"he :pe-op,1e, withou·t tbe intervention. ef an.y qnem of l)Anl:;....
~g corpora 1en1, whi.c h mon . J shall be a legal tender in payment af all debt&, pub1

lic and p,n vate.

By the OitURH&N:

Q.. Is . ba·t a seere•t.organization f;_A.. It is..

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,Q. How lo g has 'it exis,t ed 1- ·. Thirteen yeatS.
Q!!. Is it ori_g inal in this coun.t y, or is it a.n offshoot fnim a like institu.t ion ,elsewh.ere '! - A.. . t is ori· j , al in this cO'ontry.
Q.. Where was it organized 1-A. In Philadelphia, Pa.
Qi lease state whether· -there are 1111b..org,a nizatioaa m the ,differe.at
S tate· ·, an,d go on an.d dese.ri.b e the organization fo.Uy, aa my ori,ginal
gu -sti.on cout·,e •plated ~A~ ·The organization originated 'in Philadel•
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REI,4T.lu·5 8 BET.WEEN LAB.OK ilD CAPITAL.

phi&, a;o,d at itti, beginning the vari~ trades formed a Tnllle Union,
an.d th-en formed a die.t rtet., Five looal. auembliee- we call lodges loo.al
assemblies-are entitled to a charter. They tben become a district as.sembly. The limits, o.f a. di,str1,e t aase,m.b ly· have no·t , beeu yet •cle.arJy
defined, .as ~ - how much of t~k!FY each auemb)y shall. embrace .
IA·cal assem.b lies can determine for themselves ·w·k ether ·b hey .are able to
bear the expense of sending their delega,tea to where th.e district assem'b lJ · i ~, :h eld, aud that consideration bas berietofore. d.e termmed t.be
amount of t · rritoey to be :included in a.district. There. bas been no
definite u.u.mber of local asse·mblies fixed upon to be attaeb.e d to a distri~- ; _ maJly. .a _. fi.ud i con·v,enieut. can belong to it, or there ean
be :n1ore than one d·ist.riet 'in a cit-y·.. All that has to be. determ_in,ed bJ
cironm1stauees.
soJated .a ssem·b iies which eann.ot join a district are
..,ttaehed d".rectly to my o,f60e or to tbe genera] assemb)y.. Oncea 3ear
we ba¥•e a meeting, •e ntitled ,a grand assembly,. in which the law.s, and
re.g ula:ti,oo· . for the year are made. Del,e gates are sent from the distrie·t
asse·mb:lies to the general assem.b ly.
Q . From all part.a of ih:e country t-A"' From. all parts of the country.
Q. At,what tune ,does that general assembly meett.........Ail• It meets on
th. first Taesday in rS eptember of every ,year.
.
Q. Where does it meett-A.. At any place ·t hat, may 'be ,d ~igna:t ed :
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By . ·r. GEORGE:
_Q~ Y.on mean whisky d~ers,t-A. Yes, 1:dr;1 ~hose _are th,e, only
three cl.asse~. t!1,.at :a.re ex,cLuded from the organi·zatioo.. llanufacturers ·\·
-can belong to IL
By the OBAJR'lll.N:
Q!I What is the number of YU1:Jr me~bei;ship, _approximatelyf-A..
Our reports, as far· mr· tbey·were in at the tim,e w.beo I last atteDJ:pted
to aecertain our· numbers definitely,, aho,wed. that ·we had a mem.b enhip
of 17,,00D•.
Q, AlKlut how is your membership distributed throu,gbout the eountryt-Ai. Th~ are ,some States in wbieh we have no organizations a·t
all, and in othem we are ve17· strong~ We have no organir4fion what,.
ever mNorth Carolina; only ,a.few in South Ca_rolina; on.e in Louisiana
and quite a number in 'l'exas, and so tbf01lgbout the ,o ther 18,tates•.
By· Mrjj GEORGE:
Q.. Have y,ou any in .Misei&sippi t-A. Yes,. lir; we b.ave,one m:Mi,..
&issippi..
Q. W .b.ere·t At Vicksbu.rgt-A. Yes.
By the 0BAIR:IIA.N :.
Q. Have you an:y in Florida 1-~ No, sir..
~ Any in Teu- .essoo t-A. Yea,
Q~_Ba~,e you any in Arka_n sast-A.. We have none in Arkan&ae,, bu..t
we have 1n Alabama.
- B-·ave· ~ou a-: n~ y-: l~R --e-n•tu:
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of organizations in -.en·tucky.
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Q~ ' .o .· :i s it .a s to, N ,e w England !- A. We have organizations in
Maine, tJonne-cticot, New Ham·pshire,[ and Rhode Island,, and also _ju
Dela;ware ancl Ne·w York ..
.Bl·· Mr. GEOB,G E :
·Q,. Have you .any· in Ha888ehu.eetts !-.A. Yes, sir..

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BELATIO'~ S, BETWEEN LABOR A'· D CAPITJ;L ..

By the 011 mMAN:
Q .. And in tbe WesteJ"D States. _- A. o·h, yes.; ,clear to tbe extreme
west, and in t'h e Indian Territory~
~ . a-v·e you. anJ,T on ·t;he Pacific eoastf:- A, ·Yes,. sir·; we h.ave about
tbirte o lod.g es i.o fhe ci.t, of San ran.c l ·oo alon.e.,
Q:. I suppose yoar organizat,ion irs quite stro11g i'o.·p ·enns,ylvania t~A.
e· , wear,~ ·,'"'"ecy· stron« in Penn.syl a·nia, ba·t not more so than l'D New
Yo,r k

Q" Au.d m.Ohi.o also -A" Y,es,. we :hav:e a ,good mauy organizati,oo.s

··n O·'hio.
Q.. And in Indiani1, 1.Ui:uoi:t;, and all tbrou_gh that belt of State.s,I I
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suppose,1 -.A. Yes.
Q~ You ha,v e mentioned ·t he classes tha.t ar,e ex-clnded from your or1a1uzati1o n; do son aclmi't men an,d ·w omen alike to· memben,h i.p !- -· ·. .
Ye .;, we have womeu in. our lodges.
Q. Is th.e re any· qoalifi-cation .a.a t,o ag,e 'T -.A . A person must be ·eighteen years of age ·t o-be .a·dmi.tted..
Q There i18 ·no restri,ction in the matter of wealth, I s.u ppose-no
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propert_ q,nalificati,o nl-A. No, sir; if a, person has. been a wagework,e r .any time in h.is, life, he is ,en.t i.tied to be ad.mi.tted.

at

By )Ir,

GEORGE:
Bu.t be must be , wage-,wor kerl-A ..

Y •:·,. 'b e ·· ust be,, or mos·t
,Q.ili
ha .· ·e been at some. time, ·.. w.age-wo,rker.
At
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By' - th
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Q. .As a matter of foot., what classes am mo!-J,t, nnme~na m. ·. our·
~rder-agr ieultural laborers or those engag,e d in manufactu res I~
~hose e~,g aged. in manofactu rea, :i f you in.clnde the eoal miner uader
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th.a t. head.,
B,y . r .. GEOBGE :

Q. By· tae "eoal mmer·' ' you mean the :m an wlo digs t e eoal •o ot, or
the earth t-A. Yes, sir;. the:ore miaers o·n the Paetfic ooa,a t belong to

the same class.

By the ,o .a AilUI _· :
Q~ Where is the real power of your or:ganizat ion--w ith. what elw of

m.en t w ·110 oontro'l the-orgauizatio,n f-A. It would be pretty bani for

me to dete.rmiQ ·. w·h ere t,be strongest, power would come in~ I cannot
,a nsw·e r that question deftnite.l y. It mig ·t ·possibly be with the t.elegrap'b.et"S, OT tb.e. mineri:~,. or·the p-r inters-1 coul,d not tell . ·i'th oertaint)·.
Q., ·T hose several oooupations,, however, do o•t aot in _your meeting
:a~. ttepa.mte ·.·l a ses,, oue , et-0lDg· · be ,o·t h1er: but Aach man acts as an in ..
d1,"l' id uaJ, with.out- :r _:fe~e.nce ·t o t .h e ,ila. . , h· b long· to., a1J1d easts his
vo,t e independe ut1.y1-A. ,ob, ce·rta.io·iy.. The factofyou r callin,g being
diff~re .t from min:e wou'ld not bav,e ·_nytb.1ng to ,d o with the qu.estio.n.
Q Please t,e·11 us, as fa-r as you feel at :libeT~Y to do so,. the ,c ontrol or
discipliuei whiclll,, a& an organiz · ti.on,, you exercise. over your indivi,d ual
members,, .·.·~od wh.at dir,•. ctiou1 if ,a,-nJ:,. you, aa • .n or:ga-nization, give to
the indo .t:lal condu.ct or the freedom of action of 111dividoal working ..
·m e in their relations. ·wi h other individual workingme n. Is it simply
ad·· iso,r y.,, o:r is a. ·man. pn.t under an obligation to .espeut and perhaps to
compl,y .a.ctuaUy w1tb the ge.ner l or the specifi.e reqoivem.en.ts of the
oriler 1-A. : e is e.xpe.cted to com11I:v wit'fb tbe specific r,. qnirement s
of the. order, under an. obhga.t,i oo th.at he :assumes. w'hen h · becom.e s a
me·mb@r. ·•·.·. o £iJr- a.s discipline is con.cerned, ·we ba.v·e 11ot perh.a ps been
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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qui.tic as ri.gid. i~ that res~ct a ... ·.· e ·m iJht b.ave been. ~n.d er 'the eir-

cumstauce· . Thts action ·i . ehietly ad v1sory ; al.thon.gh, 1f .a ·m an as ..
Anme~. a po,,s'itioo and then, ·with.out any good can e or provocation, so
far n! w·e can. s · o·r lea n;, deserts i 't iu a coward]y ·m anner and cau es
others to be •, m'i. :•tiuuzed, we nndoubt ·dly b1.in.g as .mu.eh moral pr-essore
to lwar n11on .hi'ru a ,-r . can-fhat-_ is, .e os.tr?-cJze h'im; we ha~e· noth·infJ' to rlo with him in the work· . do not :peak to, bi'm,. n.o.r render him
an,y a.s ·. ·i· ta nee 1110:re 'ban 1 ·. · a~ol utely ne..ce · , a . ·. W do not e.on .itl ·r
• · man of' tbn.t kincl to 'be a mH,n.
t\.1, • son .f. of ..~our members. employer_· of ·1aoor.- -A~ We ha .ea
h · ·.. nuinb r of en ploy ··r among u ..
Q ·· .on1e, I suppo~. . wbo 1 igbt b cla.,ssed as eapitali tl:i a·, well as.
lahort·r · ·~-..A.. II b · ~ _r uapitaliis.ts, t.bey deny \t.. The:Y do not as ~
snm · th ,. po ~ition of a ,cr11>it~hs't ·n 'the sen e in wbich it · ,gen raUy
uud. l'8tood ..
Q. J->. rluip,s I u ll th word io a se.•nse d"'tfereut from that .1n 1 ,bich
:rou
nse i :. I mer .ly u . an by "eaJ)italist" a man who•handle . cap..
"'
~t~ll iu · e t · lJ>10iyn1,en of labor . • Well, of ,course, it i , n~es ary i'f
l on .~1n1•loy labor·, ,e ,·en to t · · smanest •e ·te.nt, to baud'l e hlO:re or less
eaJ•i al, bttt in tb ,s ense in which '~•,c apitalist ·" i,g generally unde tood1.
we hav not an, ,capita.lists. in our organization..
,Q. ....ou,., baYe no Ul n :.hoareat the bead of large es,t ablis mentsl1

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Q... or n1.en ,vho ar, ·. leaders. i.n corp ·r, tio,n or anything, of t'ha,t deseri Jl ion f·- A... O, no
Q~ I st1ppose the ·main objoo:t of the organization is to comb,ine. iud1 ..
, i,d ual laborers in ai bl ··. s,. so 1'~at th ~Y ·ma,v ·he able to protect themelve · by the joint strength of the w·ho)e. again · t any aggressions of
em,1,loyers or capitalists whi•,b ·m,i,ght deprive them, or mi.,,;h t ha.v·e a
tendency to d priv ~·t'hem, ,o f jus·t compensatio for the part which the •
take in product·on; that i , of eom,poosatioo fo.r their labor.-A.. · bat
i· . on ·· of tb, .· main o•bjiects W•e ha; · e, in view while w·e remain .age . .
worker,s ;. but: w•e are stri.,1n _· to:w.ardl oo-operatio -., and ar ·. trying as
mp1dly as w .·. Cc"ln t . introduce arbitration as, _· ,s ubsti·t ute for strikes
wheoe r that b, possible.
Q.. w· at, a . you unde~ . ta,nd tt., i '. meant by COmoperation in the sense!
in ·wbiob it is eontemplated, by your order t-A., We, aim at oollecttve
and d1st.Tibuti,;;,e co-operation. That is, if we, as meml>ers, st:a.rt a store,
.a nd if non -m,e m hers deal ,•tith u ,.. at the.e · •d of'tbree mouth.s we d,oo]are
a divid nd and give those who ha,'re assisted us par' of the p,rofita 'b ook
again, . . -er though th .,-y are not mem hers. ~ ha.t 'i ·. our ·,dea of co--opera'tiou. It s uot. oou'fined ex,c lnsi, ely to meu1bers of the o•r:ganiza· ion.
Tb , idea is to as· i •· t others W'hO a i,s t os.
,Q The illu .t ration that you. gi~ applie to the procurement of t.1i:e
ueee lfflrh.~.s of li.14 ~. I did ot kno bu·t you mPa1nt by"' C•o--opemtion,"
t bat you · 7t re ain1:ing to i&ecure a division of t be re ·ul ta of the joint inv :~s, ment of' •c apita] and la bor.-A. · •e do tl..sire th t a1nong on- ll e _,
bJ ._oiog· into busi e, ·- for oursel.Y ·. · ) oontribnting onr own monev, a 1d
starting a1business of our own.
Q~
a , tha ·b e n tried to an v te t t-A .. ~ · '." sir, many of ,o ur
l~d· ·. s Oi'WU their own buildJngs, aud ha\ e ,stores. w ·. have,a COsO- ,r4t1y·e pot~t _ry at East Liv rp ol,. Ohio, and there ar,e a nn,m ber of' other·
,eo-,01,lerati,~e ·- tores, I thi:uk th •r, ~ are 6.fcy or st t~r under way at tbe..
prestnt ·t inl in di1f rent placeN..
·
_ ( ', Thi 11ott"·rl7 1s at a t Li,..erpool1 ,Qbio~ are tbere ot'hers •· ngaged.
·i n .he sa 01e bu,s i · ess in tbbi oou.ntry f-A. o,.. ,sir;: not ·. D.J · others ·belonging to t:o ~ K ·n igb,t s of Labor..
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6

RELATIO · S BE TWEEN L&BOB AND CAPITALt
1

Q,.. Please state, as _fully ~ they occur to, yoo, all the, oo-operati.• e
in~·titu1'i.0D of tbe Kni1ghts of Labor _
i n.other kinds.of bus.ines ., tb~ug:hout the country.-A. T.be co.o·pemtiTe establishm.e·nts are p:rinmpally
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WA have a nnmbe·r of
ations th t are buildiu.g th. ·. tr own lodges wtth the ., ie.w of start1orgau iz~
i11,g . totts 't o uppJy t'henuw., ,es. . · ·t 1Shawnee, Ohio, we haive a fin: i '11e.d building, a l'a rge opera .house·, wit.h istore~rooms, and .a lod_g ing. .
·. ltou ·e·, aud a readingTroom 3:bo~e T·b at i. ', 1:.erbaps, the coDlpletea·t
.g .r oc,e,IJ~ or flr)- goods. tor,e s and ,c o~u.t ry 1Stores1

· ht1i.ld.i:ng of the kind we ba.ve in ·th.at line. The ,coaoperative pottery at
Ea t , Li,erpool. ,O hio, i :pe-rha.p s the larges investment that we ha:-v&
Q.. Gi, e us a ·.• ,d efinite an id.e s a.s you can. of th.e extent of that estabbshm.•· nt and its bnsiness,.-A. Well, I have n,e ver b@,on. dow.n ther-e ·t o
se - it•; I bav.e 1~ev,e r ,~isited th works. It hacs oost the org~ization,
I know·, abou·, i50t000. That is tbe lowest b•id I have. htk'U'tl, of in oon!

Hectiou- with it.

Q. That i:s .a pJaee wbere they manufacture pottery·f .........A . Yes, sir;
1rb1t ~·w are-tab e-·ware.
Q~ .ow long has that, been. 1n. operation '! -A. Since alx,ot las.t ;Se·p ..
tember, I think
Q. . Then 1t ha not been at work long euongb to show results to any
g.reat extent t-,A,i ·· o,; hut 1.t ~s s,t artiug ou.t with very flattering pros ..
pects, owing to the cessation ot··w ork in the. other potteries, there.
Q. Explain. as. wsll as ,J,1"00 can ·t he org.auizatioll. of that pott.eey ent,er.
p,n ~. aod the plan of pr,o oednre; bec __ nse I take it that that is pi:-obab.l. a good illostmti.on of your general idea of 00-0:p eratioa.-A. I have
ne,er bad the plans s11bmitted to me for exam·ioa·tion. They w,e re 81lb~
mitted. to th.e execotive board o,f our ord,e r and aot to me, and 'for that
reason I cannot! t-ell y·ou.jnst exa.c:t ly what the. mode of O'per&tion ·i s;
but 1 ·u ndentood that the intention was, to adopt as, neILrly as possible
the system. which baa, been. adopted at Rochdale in EngJ~nid, that is, ;is
n.e arly a&1i't could be made ap,p licable to ,t 'h:is count-ry·. N'e arly· ,a ll our
,s.tores a:re adoptin,g that systemt or 'will Adopt i't when tbey get goio.g.
,Q_ Do y.oo expoot that that sy:ste.m of oom.b ,i na)tiou and co-ope.ratiou
among t ·e laborin.g men ~iJI be extend~ to 0th.e r ind~s~es in all
parts of t'he. country .- A.. We ho,p e so.. We · re working· .i o. tbat directi,ou as, fast as we ,can.
Q. y ·o n speak of the, phms of the c.o-operatt ve pottery ·h aving· been
subm1tted to ,y our executive boa_r<L Fo,r what purpose was, that do -e f
Did the.y have. to obtain a license tro.m the ex.e cntive board., as repreESenting the whole organization T:- ~ Ob., I presnm•e.it. w:a a -simply to
ha, e their o.pin,1on and judgmeo.t-more an advi.s.ory matter than any ..
thing el. e.
Q~· · ·be,J would ha e 'been at perfect liber·t y ·t o organize wi.th.o ut sncb
,a ~" a.p1JU~e ~~on_t:-A. Ob, yes 1 tb.ey· could.. do ~ii on ~t_h eir C?W~ res~!nsi~
bth ty. Vt, e haiv,e a oo'" op ·rat ve ft1.11d. ·wh1,c h 1.s -o,ption:al 10 th ord r~
llembeis ~u subsmiue to tbat ft1n.d. once a week, an.d it is ood,e r the
~ontriol of a well -t1.elined co-operati., . .e board... It was only started las~
,.-ear, bowev:r, and. bas not taken ,d efinite shape ye·t~ I do not kno,. ·
t.ha it is re.all~ se tle,l what ctn1rse will ·be ·p nrsued w·ben. snffi.e1ent
fnnd·· ·ba\\""e aocumulated. to wttrr.a nt inv·estment. I could. hav,e gi,re•.H
yon a vast a-mount of information ou tb:is, subjeet if I bad known tba ·
yon would. des-ire. i.t, aud I ·will st1b1nit it to th, •· oommitt . .· 'b efore tb·is
i.n-.: istiga.tion close .. We have .a sta "is -icia.n of onr order w·hose. business it is. to collee't stati . tics. from. all the ubordinate Iod.g es. His re,.
port is _in, print now.,. and 'i~iel~u~es, O'!er a tho~and locaHties ·io the
. •:n ited StateiR nd Cauadt. I held it back nn-til i.t became absolut.ely
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RELAT.IO~S· BET'W EEN. LAB,O B AND C · PIT'AL,.

n eees ary to send it to pre s as it . as part of the p~ingi of the
I s.t general ·.. · m·b1.Y, nd_it 1s now in pre . It will gi~e you the most
,definite hm, rmatiou as. to th.e condition oft.b e or~•.nization.
Q.. ·Gi.ve us what iofo,mia.t.i.on l·on ea·- abou·t other labor organizations
than yonr own and tb.e ir extent in th.is coontry..-A. I could hardly
_give you an:y defini:t e information .as to the .contliti.on of others...
~
Q. Can you give o •. the name .. of ~me of the·m T-A. I wi.ll do so as
fnll · , ; can rooaU the a't t.b1s mom.e nt., altbou.g h ,here are gentlem·e n here represeu'ting other t·rad ·· organizations ·w ho could. p robabl.y
1'.!;ive. you •ore aoonrate information. Tbe.re .i s the Amalgated Assooia~
tion -of Iron ahd Steel Workers. of A~.e riea.,, the nternatioual Cigar~
:Maker ., Associati.o u, the International Ty·p ographieal Union, t&e Lak,e
Seam,e:;,._ UnioD, the Iron Worken' Associati.o n, tbe Mole iSpinne:ra' A ~
aoo1at1on1.,. th · Cutlers, th . Carpenters' Intema '"onal Brother , ood, ·t:he
Tiusm·i ths' A . soo1at''o,n,, the Boiler-make fl' s.' -ssoeiatiou, aud other,~
Q. or all those · arion:s organiza;tions which haA the ·m08·t n.om.eroas.
m.e mbenhip at the p1··-•· ent ·time.t .A . Tba·t would be pretty· bard to
determine, b::Ut . I thi~k ~m1a lpm ted. A ociat1on. o,f Iron and Ste 1
Workers a:nd the Kn1,-.ht · _, of Labor .•··re· the t·wn Jarge ..t I think the
:Knight: . of Labor i _. coo,· i,dera.bly la.~ger than anv of t&e othe.r or:ganiza tio - .
Q :i s the member,s bip· interohan,:ttabl · that is,, may a ma belon."'
to sever.ii of_tb•:· o ·gauization ., ·-A. Oh, yes; .i t does n.o·t aff'ect..· man's
.standiug with us at all tbat ·h e belong .• to o e o:r·more of these organiza.
tion .
·
·
Q. Please ·'iate, generallJ, · .·. itbont ,g oing ioto pa.rtieulars, in what
.seetiob' . of the countr.< the membership i~ mos,t noroerous.-A.. Illinois,
.. P ··no· 1~1··v .~ . : , .· ew Y
" ,. •.0·aH"
. an.d· C.·-• ana.d_al
Oh
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.. ork-~W
.·. ·es v
·.·.
1rgin1a;
-.orma,
probably those wouJ,d represent tbe largest member . biJ).
Q. Is tbe. ,0001aection of th~ Canadian. organ:i zation with. the organization in, the· . nited. S'tates a close one !-Ai Yes, ,ir. it 1s just the sam~
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. Q!! Tha;t is, you do not recognize. .i.n ~his matter·the political booodary

liue betw·e en Canada •.Dd the ·ni'f:e(l 1S tates f.......... . .• · ·iO•.
Tbe Clllm.MAN~ I s.nppo, · . you ·b a~e •. ,.· mined since ye terd.a y morn..
ing t.be re,s olution of in trocti.o to thi .- committee .i ulopa,d by the
Senate. I will now ooll y·our att..:n tiun to several c.lanses in it We are
instructed, ill the first place, to tak,e. ·i uto con ideration the sobJ:oot of
the relation . be.tween labo -and capital, · e wa_Ees and b·oors of la1hor.
the •CO'Dditions of the laboring cla&ees. 1.11 the United S,tatea and ·t heir
relat . . ve, eondi'tion and wages as ,com1,a1·ul · ~tb the same claws ., ·
·O'tbe·r countries, and to i0:q.u ire iot:o t.k e d1vi.810n between labor and
-capital of their joint prod.uctions. in the United S,h \tes, The. pith of
our •·· .q·nir)-- i p,r obably in tbese cla ses of tlte resolutio··1. , . •. ow w·i th
regard to ·t he .r elati.o n · be wee ·- a.bor a:nd capital and th - wa_g es, and
hours of ~bo.r, _you are a n3:pres.entati e of one of the lead.in,g labor
organizations of the conn·. ·· ,an org, niza1tion formed primarily fort.he
deft n · e and pro·t ection. of' the :r igh . of' the laborer as, socb. I will
the:r-efo•r - ,ask yon to s.t -te to the eomm:i ttee th :_ gr1e .· anees and bard.•abips. that the laboring m•en. ~eel and sn:Jfer in. their rel tious to e.apital
1n fhi .· oonntry ,and in C nada also., gi¥in,g your , . i wand taei.r vi.ews
in :rour oll·n way aud as fo)I .· a , you can. ·.. on may pmooed to co, ~
th.e .g rou~d ,e111bra-eed in the first part of this f1e&0b1tion at such len gth
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as.. ;Ott t.b1nk fit.i
Tb WrrNEss . You.. -ish m · to speak of the . lation·s betwee-n ,c api~
"al n,n·i!.:d- labo
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BELATJO·N _.· B·E'I\\'T.E'?{ LADOR At.1D· CAPJTA.L•

C"
· -.· y ·es_,,
-· :?,~·d . th e"' gr1e
- "' ·· aoce,
· . · . wh· l··--Cb , ·88.-, a
.- Jn.)..-nn"'
. BAmM.AN..
wuu :__ ·g· m·a·n-·
and a r,e presentative of Jaboring m n., yon think. you and they slillfer
u1Jder, aotl for whieh ., . on won ,d see a rewed·.. p· oo,v 1ded .
he w ·1TNESS~ WeJJ, I find in the firtit place tha;t in nearly every· in.stance tbe relation existing between ·m1,loyed. au.rd employers, with
few .hollorabl e exce·ption .., ili uot o that cordial nature that i should be..
l .find that he mere idea. of ,o r.2aniza.tion on th .· part of the laborin1g·men
is repugnan.t to the n1anufactu.r e:r s and e11iploye1.· ·. as a el ., . . s, an . vi.•
deuce of that l w·o uld state, before goi' · ,g fnrtber, that we have ha.d a d.ifli..
culty at East Li erpool, Ohi.o,.beginniog las,t rspring early in :May and con..
·t.111t1iug alon,g., in ·wbieh no't a oo.nt of' moee,y entered into tbe oonte .t at
alt The: mere fact ·hat t.he men JJa.,cl jo:ned the. Knights of Labor was
dee med s.nfficient rea.~ou b.. · the potte,riea tberet .a nd their aasoeia.tio,n , to•
decl re th , me·n dl c·h r:ged a d to lfb .t down th · ·o~:k s nntil ·t he men
would. agr,e e to go back to work, not · e membe .- of any labor organizat,ion. w ·e have resisted. that action on tbe pa.rt of the employers, be.
tb
'"+,;1.zen . we h a e a rig·
. ht to JOm
~ ~
··
ti. on
)1. ,e , 1ng·
_, &t- as A
.· mer.J. ean c1·,t
an assoo1a
for our own d,e fense, our ow.n adva~cement; ·w e have resented tha~t.
a-etion of theirs., and th,e struggle has been a 'b itter one .od is oontinn..
in,_· ~ et. We are .slO'wly gaining- a few points, b,u ·t the ,a troggle, as I
ha¥ ._ said,, bas been Ion · and bitteril That probably is,t e latest and
most prom.inent issne t·h at we have bad with the employers in whi.cb a
large number of men ha e,been.engaged, but ·we b,ave thou~nds of iso•
lated case of ·ndivid:uals woo have. boon victimized an.d •driven from
their hom and early aasooiations. simply ··.·.. ea1ll88 of the.fa.et tha.t th.. v
bav,e bee-n mem ben of' 1abor nrganiz.ationsli , n many eases no other·
cause.was ever . · · igned, e er after ~b· y _had done everyt.bin,g p - . .i.b le
.rr1..
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.s elves together and put men on what they call ·t he "black list," ·merely
f~r bei'ng members of labor orga·n izations-:not t'he ni~~ts. of Labor
alone-but othe-r organ1zations, and have,preViented them. from go_ing 1o
work at t11eir homes or anywhere within a reaaonabJe distance. of their
works, I have 'know.n o,o e bo·v el manufootnre~ to eep•t 'w o sober., industriio ne. Jl!e~., v.'ith famili 8z '.&om_:~ tting work fo,~, nearly two Yeai:8•
Be 1i0Uowetl them from the city of Pittsbnr,gh. ,clear do·w n to Am,e s''sl m
Mas .acn.osetts., · od all ·t h,e way baek again+
_
Mr. GEOKGE. I won~d suggest that he.n yon get through. wic·b. your
general s,tatem.e nt on thl8 poin.t o,f ·t he relations between. the employers.
. .i 1t
..
·•· d"'i'I Vl"'dual 1n~
Ioyeu
an d the emp_
wo--old.
·_ b_e we11 1·f you won'I d·. s·tate m:
sta.oce · ·. in th ·. case·~· you havejust DJe.n tion.ed. _
The WI.TNESS. 'Well, I aui going ov·e r tbatpart of the snbject lightly
n.ow ·becau. e otheru, can give you more direct infonn.ation a.bout it. -_ y
,r • B
·• -1, .h- o . s hem no-w 1n th·
,. .a ·v tc
. ti_m1z
~ ed
frien.d ,.i..u.r
. •a11.-u,
.__::_1s room, 18
_ me.mbe
- ·r
of a coal organ·zation, and will probably enlighten. ,y ou. more upon that
qn .tion than I c.an. I know of -the existence of several su.eh cases in
tbe region where be comes, from, A ·.o the oondl i.on of' labor in oar
]ar,ge labor een terst I do no tb1 n k tbi.s state of atrairs _e~,t.8 to the same·
extent, but my frie·n ds Gompers and Foste:r, who, live in Ne.w York. City
and in. Bosto ,, can sp~k m-ore definitely opou that branch of the .s olr
ject, and therefore I w.ill go ove.r 1t ligh·tJy.
The 0114IR · . , _·. Proceed th .n, in your own way.
The __ ·~1r~:mss. As . ba:v,e. said., I know o,f these instan.cea having ooeurroo Mauy of our s.t rikes, and difficulties with employ,e rs hav,e n,..
suited fr,01n obnoxious rules and re,g nlations. establisked in their work~
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RELATJ,O . S BETWEEN LABO'R A D CAPITAL.

although tbe majority of tk_e·m h v,e arisen fro,m di:fterences as to l];be,
·wa,ges, tba should be paid for labo,r .
Q. Cao ,_~oa gir·,e, ns som.e instances of the obn.oxioos mies o,f w·bich
, . ou 1spe;1 k -! -A~ . ·es ; one_instance ~l!S ~CJD 't he ,p art of a l ·rge. firm, of
ca.r1·iage 1uanufactnrers at Rocbester, }il, Yt-James, C ~nniug·bam, So ,s
.. Co~, Jn~t a irea-r a,g o this month their me-n rebelled a,ga,i nst ce·rta1n
ru1 s that th ·:y 'had esta.blisbed in their wo,r ks-rnles degrading to h·1
m ..1u na.tunt·. For in tanee, the faneet ., in the water s,i nks were locked
01,,. and wb . u an ernplo_,e, wanted :a drink of .. ater he had to go to the,
foteman of b1. departwe·n.t ,an.d ask. for a drink; the foreman wen·t an,d
ur1locked the faucet and g.a , e him a enpfnl of water; and wbetber tbat
was ~:11otJ,gb to atisf'r his thir t or not-, it ,vas ,a ll :he got~ Whe.n tbe
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tbe morning th.ey· were num.b ered h;y check . A ·m an
lost 'his i<l.enti ,y: as a man aud took a numbeE like a prisoue·r in a penitontiary,~ The cbe.cks ra·n, up · o .f ive hnndred and so:m.e thing. If a man
'Worked in th~ tbi~l or fourth story of the. build.ing·('it was a large, high
bnildiug),. and if he was, an old ruan-thr they had a, _good ·m any old
.m,e n doing· li.gb.t work-when the bell ra.ng for di'on~r he was obliged to
walk down &e\'"'eml pa rs of s;tairs,., take oft: his cheek. a:od. then walk up
stair ·. again to ea·t .h is. d1uner') and w·b eu he· got done, ·be b,ad to ·w.alk
down agabi antl pu · on the cheek befo1~, the bell rang for afternoon
work.. In that way th y kue·w ju -t wben a man ca-01.e in or we11, ont.
Tb.en, if a man was a pi:eee--work.e-r there, ,and got tbron_g h ms work at
:b alf~·p ast 2 or 3 o''clook, be ~as not permitted to leave th.e ·b uilding
nntil the Trego lar t.i!DP:........,/6 ,f?'cloek. No ma:tter· w·h.en he got through with
bis work, be, had to s,tay there in dirt and d·mcomfort, and could not go
bo1ne or go out uutil 6 o'clock in tbe evening~ A 'n other obno,xions, mle
·was that if a man was 'h alf or even quarter of a m.i nnte late be ·was
shu, out Tb .,y h~l a ga·t e and it would be shut ,d o,wn upon a man
e.¥en ,•hen be wa·, going in, sometimes so, quickly that he ·w oold, hardly
have time to draw bis foot baek to · oop it from being ,croe,b ed hJ"" the
gate, and. that man would be ke·p t 01i ~ antil 9 ,o'clook, .so that h,e wonJ.d
,m ake onl_
y three,- quarters of a day's work .. The rule W:as that the, men
had, to be in 't he work befor-e th.e whistle b,lew,,
Q. 'Whait was the, hour·at whi.e b they 'Werereqllired to be tberel~A.
Seven o'cloo,k in t' ' e :moro1iog., Ten hours, I un·d entand, was the length
.· ·ese ru I_:es were. ex~ini
---.;r• g Iy o'b·o,o:oous
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to
of- a,d'
'. ay,,s work' th
·_1ere. -Th
.·_ t_-h· e,
.~en,:- As. I 'b ave said,, e~,e n the pi~ee--w~~ker '!as loo,k ed o~t -~~ ~~~, ~~
·1n tie mune w·,a y. T e, time of a p,1ece-worker ts supposed to be his own,
tu a considerable . ~ten:t,, aud if he works slo·wly and does, not ,g et o-nt
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a piece of w,o rk pi:omp,t ly, o,f cot~e_ he does, n,o,~ get paid for it;, bot
still, they w,e re tieated in that es·ta;blishm-e nt ~ I ha-. e stated. Tbat is
one instance, and .I could ·na1ne others of •'. .- 11milar' char.acter amon,g th.e
miners. Only r,ecentl,. I received a letter from a ,check -w eigh man n_p in
the second pool, I thi' k iu the Honongahela1River, asking, me what I
thou,g ht of a firm that would have ,a sliding lin.k ,on the" ·w·e igb stale&
Q~ .· sliding liuk-vihat is that 1-A.. All he as.k-ed me 'W as, w.h at I ·h av·e
stated~ b·u t I pre ume i't i . a liuk by which Y'OD can .r egulate the distance
from tbe · , eighing poiut to the end, sUpp,i ug tbe. link ·b aotw.a rds or fo:rw·a rds ju _·,_ as~ 011 .· iRh, so as to cheat in the w·eight.. ,Oar miners a'lmost univ ~,1•1Ja'Dy eomplain ,of bein, • ebPa.ted i·n the am,o ont of coal that
t;ber take ou.t . Tba't 1s another cause of great ag·g ra·vatioo and ,Hsturbance, In some .mines, tb.ey di · and get, pay for the "ran. of the ban'k "
-that is, slack aod lump and. nut coal all ,go1 in togeth.e r at 1SO much a
ton. ln other mines the miners are.paid, fo~,simply the lump coal ; an.d
a] tlu~ rest is dedoc:tedl! The men.have t,o, dig the other·kinds for noth-1

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RELATIO~S, B'ET\V~"'E · LADOB, A ·:D CA.PIT.AL.

~,. g, get ing so much ·b u· ·h•4 for ll1e lumJ> coal only-coal ·t hat ie not
large ,eno:ugb t-0, go th.rough the sereeui! · be :ize ot" t ·h e screen is mgo.lated by law in , 'e un ·ylvan .a, bat as :roo p·rooeed.i.o this inves,t igation
we wn p,r odnce witnes .~'.. wbo will prove that, th.e sereen,s. are. often
'h alf .c11n. inch large1· t an the size tbe law· ·p · .· seri . . . The sereen is made
of loog bn1· . of iron., au<I the coal ~ons down,., over·,, and between them .
(:l. And is the miner .allo.wetl on)y :fo:r t .at coal ,vbich. 1 .· too la.r g,e to,
pa: s thro gh 'I -A.. Yes, ir, the. miner 1s allowed for that; toe res·t ·h e
lo ·e,. ; a t\ i_n ·n1any·instances the. screen . , . I ·b a,·e sa ~ t1 ,, do not conform
tu ·t e l ,w. but a·r e 1ar,g er than. th · prescribed size4' 1n. anch eases they
I t ,coal t.b1·onih that ,doea uot go luto tbe w,_ight below, and the miner
In e . t.hat.. J; goe,s by ,d fault u. ter1y, and there is a great deal ,o f slack
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wast .,_,.
. take it from wha.t yon say., then, tba:t the min,ers are :p aid for
tb amount of coal which they dig 'f -.A~ ·Y,es.
Q:. Au.d each. m.a n's work 1s kept separa,t et--A. I think that t.wo
work tog · tber.
.
Q. Go on and gir,e ~u, the'' true inwa,ntness" of tke thin.·., so far as you
ca.u, in your own way.- ··. .. ·.· s to w~e, I pre ume there alway,s has been,
and to a cerb1iu extent al.way ·. . will. be, al difference as long as self~int ,e rest, eontrol . The average wages. uow,, .a ud tire.. _ erage . ages a few
Jean .. ago a~e all mat~ of sta'ti. ,tics wb1.cb. are to ~ . fouud in various,
reports,, ~Dd know of n.,o r~porte,fai'r .·r than tbose ~f the bureau of ,s taf'is.ties o,f ·M as . aehnset ; but upon that por :·on of the ,subject onr frie , d
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Jlr. Foster will enU,ghten be oo:mmi'ttee, It

nnd.era:tood th.at I
sboold a.p eak upon the organizati,on as it e.xiste~ a.n d thArefore I did not
pay much attention to the. other branch ~ of·the sn~jec·t ; the cooditioa
of _.he 1aborers, the. ,e·m ploym nt of child labor,, and ,s uch matters_; ·be10,g
J,e ft t-0, others. But so,far a we can nndersta11:_d our want&,, and d.e seribe
th ··m,. as I learn from geat1emen with whom I am ·i.n oomm·n nication,
fhere ie a larg,,, lac.k of eonfid.enee e · isti .g betweea the employers and
the empl~yed.. It is, a truth so ,s elf ev1den.t that there is no bidin,g i .· a,t
a.11, that a a, rule the employed ean never g,e t an advance in. wages
-u1itbout, eitber enter:i ng ·n.pon a s~ke,oflongero,r shorter· duration, ora.t
1east threatening a trik.e. That I believe w,o old ·< tbe universal testim.ony of an who ha,"e ,e ver been e,onnected with labor organization -,.
\\y·e baive kno•WJ?I tll · emp,lo·. ers to go on. p,r ospering, to grow ·r icher and
1.icber, to 'liv-e in large·r residences an.d travel •or,e ex,tensiv,e'ly·, with their
fami'Iy· expenditures constantly increas:·og, et a.II the time, wbe,, ap~
proached for an 1 .c rease of wa.ges,, they wou1d d~IAN t·ha't they were.
1a&king n,othing. That on,e fact _lone de ·troys the oo·n fideace that
..:hould ,eXJst bet, . .oon em.ployer a.ud ,employe ., and causes m.a.ny ,of th.e
at,rikea. in th.is ,country..
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BJr Mr. GEORGE :
Q. ' ,he emplo3.e thinks, as, I und.e rs·-· nd you, ·-· at. his,pros.p ei:4tyought
to incr,ease, with. that of bis ,em,ploye.r 1-A.. e n~t o~ly thinks so, bt1t
he ~bsolutely kno w_ that ·i t should.. T'bat t~oo.gbt, bow.e vert ·is ne·ver
:r ealized exeiept by e'ith,e r 1S triking or tbreate·o inc to strike. Th.e great
majori~y of' ca es are eon trolled in. tb,a t way. B --~ll.~i , m, ny •·, · st·a nee .,
,lfter a strike b.as, been · njoined, ubitra:tiou eommittee,s have beeu ap . .
·p ointed and the d.ispu,t e has been ,S ·ttled.. Onr desire is to ·b ring arbitrat.i on fo.rw . .d a m.uch a , possible as the best mean . of settling these
conitrovers.ies, but we fi.nd tbat the eropl,oyers generally ,are, jus.t about
as iguoran on ~he tiUbJeet of .~rbi.~ '.tion . as t~.~ av·e rage w~e-work,e r.
and about a ,Mtver,s e to adopting it for the. adj,u stm,e nt of differences,
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RELA.TIONS BET\V'E EN LABOR J.ND CAPITALil•

l't is a ·m atter·of educatio'D,. and we hope 'to discuss it .and bold it 'hefo-1~
tbe ·people until it~~advantages; shaJl be generally appreciated and
strikes. done RiW•Y ·w ith in a lar_g e measure or aJtoge1ther. While ·w,e
hold 'tbe right to .s trike to be a divi"ne right., a club b)~ w·h ieh we ean
enforce our just claims wh •·n ,o ther· means fail, yet, we do hope the t-im.e

w:ill eome wben strikes, wil.l eeaae.

Q. The labo.riers go into a strike _wit.h relu,e tance, th., u I-A. Ob yes~
Q~ And only ,vben oth,e.r means ba·ve failed 1:- -A"' Ye_, sir _
; w'be,n idl
other means have fail,e d-eonciliation, arhitmt'iou, .andeve~ythiog else,.
As_ I have ·aid., arbit~ation is a :m a:'ter op to which t·h e people have.
. .Jl "11,ud W"°'
ll1o·p
·0' 't;\J.
-...lg,t.H'
. lte
···· no
t:be'
· ·r 1.fiJ1"'·e·r bot
to. · be •1d11
.1.-•i\lnt-·
'-'G . ffl.l,1
~Iii'
·.·. ,,e
·.· 1
~
·- ·t onlv
· · -~ · ·
. · .·' · aa4:L.wo
· ·
tbe emp,l o. .er, so that they· .in both -uuden:tan.d arbitration and it · ad1

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van!ages, bette·r · than they do uo,. : •

Q. When negotiation has ·failed, wha·.t is tbe. p·:oocess by which ,5 -00
enter upon a stl'ike ·. Do tb.e _employes, through a ,eo,1B1D.ittee ,o f th. ir
o,wn . whe . tbey are dissatisfied with the 1sha.re of t'be.. jo-int prodnc.t o-f
labor and capital that fulls, to their portion1, wai.t, u.p ou the employer
be:fo,re striking, aad p,r esent tbe.i r views on the su·b jeet t-A.. Iu every
instance, as tar as, I k.no-w,. in othe.r organizations,, and certainls in oon,
a eommittee is, appoiuted to wait ltpoB the ·lirm. or tile ind1vidoal ,emploJ·e r aud state t.he gri,e va-n.ees of the wor'k jog men and their demand ,,
and ,give. t·be e·m1-•loye·r reasonable 'time tor cousi.d emtion.•
Q. Do the employer.a,. when they .a ssert, that the, ooodi._ion. of their
business wilt not perIDi~ them to ma .e an ad vaoee..in the rate of wages,
ever p·ropose to show tb.e ir book,1 or an a'bs'tract of _"their 'b ooks 1-A
~o,_sir _;_if they· did1,,stri-~es _i~ nearly ey!rY -ease,, probably·_in~ e:~ery
- case, would eease. ~.i·.b.at :18 one of tbe tbm.~H that we are trying to
have the emploYers do-sho,w ·us their books, and ehowthat,they cannot
aff~nt the advance.. ,f they would do that, there wollld be no strikesQ. Do, tbe committees, ask that f:..-....A. T.h ey have asked it iu some ·i netanees. That_iis,, a committee ~hat is extremely impudent may· ask to
1see, ·· be bookst b1it the ru.le is th.a·t the books are never .s bown~ We
have to take the employ,e·r 's word that he cannot,aJf-0nl an advan.ce.. The
employ·ers ·will say· "w,e a.r e selUnJ: too •elo·- eJy ' '; or, "competition i:s
too great, we cannot affoFd it"; bnt .at the same time they will be increasing their '9.l'Orka ·OODStan't,]y and increasi'og tbeir ·p ersonal e pend.i
tnres,t -we know aod , ee aEI that, .a nd of 00"11.me i·t des:troys t.h.e conti.dence w·e might o,t berwise have in their state,ment,a.. I ne ver in m_- li.i
app~ed. a manufaetoft,r on be'b alf of bis em11lloyes 'b u:t w'h a:t he
protested that he was making· ·nothing. I have known. some of th _ ·
me·, to .·priog up from the pos.iti.on of wa·rehouse clertis to that of great
m.aou.f acturers., and yet it is. not on record ·t hat, their' employes have
ever approached tbe1n for a adv.ance in wages,. bnt they protested..
against paying more ,· -bau the:y were payiuw, on the _g round that they
w·ere ·too poor, aud tha.t it wa · . " no·t i·n the business. ."
,Q. D~ 3011 ,k now of any instance in which &!) •e m,pl0:y~r, in order to
satisfy the committ .. . ot th . re:p.reseotati-r-es of the emplo_y es, ha_s. nu~
dertakeo to make an exhibit of bis busiuees,!-Aji I kne,w that to be
done ·rn. one 1nst.~noo. I knew a case w'here some firms in the coal b118.iness exhibited their books to a committee..
·Q. WL.1tl e 1 . re,g ar•.d· t o. . ·t_h
. 'a t_i:I n·
'. : 111y d_, . 1 o.r.
_ uu •i .. ·t h
. o th;__,e' y,· genera_
do t.hey ,:enera1ly refuse!-~- Ob, the3 .alJSolutely refuse .as a g-en.e ral
rule1 I can ool:5r uam.e oue instance w·h e e it was ,d one, They say that
tha,t · ·. their· private, business_,'t~at _the.·i r books are .secret an~ tba.t tbe··,
,d o no•t pr-opo.se. to expose tbe~r business, aad ·t hey do not •d,o 1.t-.
Q. .Do ·t hey ever·make aa abstract or an exhibit of their books to sho·w·
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tbc ,co11ll1t1:ou oft e bo ·ne ~,'! -A., ·. o, .sir; they have never done that
to rnx k·n,owl d,g ~.
Q.. Theu t.b · . g·enerallJ end the ·m att r b~ · · Jior,. "We are not ruak-·
ing an.: 1t.bn1J("!-A_ Ye ; th y ju ·t deel re ·t bat th y. a . making noth~
:i.r1,gt S11n1et1me -~of oou:rse, \f,e ,are mistaken in regard to · be profit~ of
tbe busiu ~... ~, b .~cause som1· ti.toe _ the . 01 · ward e-=- ibitilons. of w'hicb I
ha\:- e , pok.en ar, · no ,e iden-ce of _ubstaotial wealth
Q, In wh.a p1·1.·i" or ·t emper· a-r e t ese application, on the ·p art of the
.m:plo,~e~ . reooh-. ed b · the etupl,o}~~r · 1· What i their manner in d,ealing
with the r pre~entati,·er:; of the .m·p loy·e s · -A.;, Oh, they are 11suan·
tb y · 1eet 11 . ,vith ::_ ,;ery· pob.'t e bo . aud ,a,
, er:. affabl an,l a1:niabl
·ye 'Y firm refusal The,y e.xpiress .. d .-·. i.r e to 'bi ·ve good re·lation e1:ist
b~t -~ en tbenl .·e l . ·e s a1u] th ir .. mploye . , but th .·y a ·b solutel,y refu e t,o
~bov.· the coudition of the."r b -·. i,11 ·. s while at the .same ime they t Jl us.
tbat th · y· are no d oi11, a business, 'to jus .ify •_n ad:rance of age
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Q. Is I bere any bing· fu·r ther th _t yon .ish ro state a ~ tn the preH1ninary efforts that you as ·w orkingmen make to secure a.n advance of wag ..
,v., hen yon think yon ought to h· ve i.t -A.. U inan · in such ca · .· ou:r
hltlJtes oon11e•tog 'ther and deter·m·ne that, owin,g -to ·t be cond'i'tiou of bn ine·~.';,a '' b om" :o ·t h.e marketan.d e·\""'erytbing goiogup, inclndi ,g the ."ost
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of Ji,:in(C1 they _:, ieve · ~ey o_ug~._- to '11..a \ e ~-rc1i se in wages, and !he_ ,qu -s1

1 dJ' co ,.ed frou1 time to tune and voted u.p o • If a, maJont¥, o ·
t ·o-th:n d ., de.clam in. fa:\. .n · of asking for .an adv· nee, then a committee
is appointed, a, m ~n commi'ttee or a mh1:e OODlm'itte.e,. or a faeto.r y com~
mittee, ,a··· ·t he ease ma} h ., to,wait upon the manager~ o.r whoev,e r i -.· the
prop r pe son repr,es _nting th other side, and submit the c se and
gi've · . hatever reasouabl ·, length_of ti.me i · ,d e. med necessary for·conside e1tion., if any i . ~-._·;.ked for,. Then, at tbe e-xpiratiou of th.at •time, t e
com1 ·ittee gioes, .again to .m t t · e repre ·e»tat·ve o:f ' the ot-ber side.
Sometim.e s little further time 1s atfted foit the. ,00insiderat1on of the
·m atter,.ou the. grou.n.d tha.t the e·m ployer·wishes to consult bis other 11ar~
n r, . or Jl · rhaps becau · e some im:portant members of the fi m are Oll't
of town., and in soeh cruses time is alw .•YS granood~ Then wheu the demand -of fhe workingm.e n. a.re ·:fto. -. lly refused and ·t h,e men still adhere•
to ·ibt, d ·•mand for an advance, .tb.ey . trik.e and refuse to ,g o to w·ork
· until ~he-y can rec i,~e ·w bat ·t h,ey regard as fl ir· re.m. nention for their
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labor. In 't'be strike ,· in some instances viole:oce is,resorted to, but never

re ..ult, of ·be ·w~eb, i .h er·e pre sed. f>r ·i mplied, of
tb.e lodge .amon.g hos .
mbers be rlole. oo bas occurred~ I oe .er'in
my life have 'known -violence to be ,coanteuancetl in -any 1od,gei ·, ve
h·a v ru?la;:'f tri. .d !u o conduct ouri · ·I,,.e • as to carry public op,i nion
ith u •.. Th~-t i · al,, ·.ay ·. our desire and our endeavur. Ocoasio,,any,
how,e v r., bo -h·•· ad.·. 1neu ou t · ·*r own :r e pon ·ib,i'li~y will break tbe
la: .· , bnt tihese caaes are very rare in proportion to the unmber of in"'
stallces of ·tn.k _.·. ; :.·, tbou · h. th.ere ha ."'e beenc ·. ··._ wberetb0employ ·rs- .
ha,l . .· tt.e·mt•tecl _-0 i.nc·i t ~• riot and b · .· e call d ont the military in tlaeir
behalf, , e b.ave k ·no"Vvletl.~'3 of ins ·. nces of that kind wh.e:re ·w itbo t
tbe Jig· .t · . exh'ibi :ion or i.ntima.tiou of · ".olence on the part: the men,
tb.e e·wployer.s 'h" .ve ·take· thos · t.ba·t tb.ey ad proe1 red oo take · he
place of th · ~,trike s, and ,a;rmed tbem, ebl:imiug tha..t tb y did th.is for

to m · k.no ledg·e .

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'' se]f.protection", alt.bon.gh no , . . io'lence was offered or oon.templat.ed or
enacted. by the 1neu strikin,t·..
Q. ln th• ·: or.-·· nization of .a strike,. ·t he ac.t nal s;trik.e, as I 11od,ersta1 d
you, is iuiti . ted b:v a vote of ·t ,he lodge f:_A" Yes, sir ; a two.thirds
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Qii So th.at :i'n . uch cases ~-u . bave tbe judgment of two-third_ of· the
membership of the lodge tha-tjos,t ice to the Jabore·r requires that posi-tion ·t o be taken. · . ·o ·w, of eourse, w·b ere you in that way abandon y,o ar
em.ployment the em1lloyer seeks to eopply· yonr·plaee :from outside,, does
e Dot, !~A. Certainly..
Q. Tha·i_ J _ ordinarily his remedy I-A. Yes.
Q:. Tben y·o n ha~•e _t,o make provision for ,s ustaining the strik - and
snsta-ining r. ose of the strikem who are of such ·u mited meanie that
tb:ey cannot li,~e wh~1e 1t i~ ~ing ~on, do- you nott- A. Yes, 1Sir _
; we
assess our membership for their maintenance..
Q.. I so·ppose that th.ose who have sufficient means to maintai·n. tbe·mrsel -es with.o ot calling npon the lodge, do maintain themselves; or is
e,;er5 one dis.po• _.· essed_of em:pl'?ym_e n:t l>cy the ~-t rike entitled tG, a p,r o
rata easure of the .· ·._ smen ; I-Ail B ,e would be,]on ge.n cral principl . ·. ;. but nsuall_y those wh-o a~ ·k nown to he possessed. of sufficient
·· means to Jiv ·•. through a struggle do n.ot :u;'k for assistance.. That is
t e role •o far as ·tb.e m.atter has com.e u.nder my ob&ervation.. There
··· ow . t,ho-0 lf!ii.
ma1:· p·. rb.0 •p s be~.-instances ·to the contT'G.·~ b. nt so far as,I kn
who ar,e able to li've upon their own m,eans, do so.
Q,. I.s this bmd,en of the sustenance of ·t he men thrown ont of ,employm,en.t by· a particular strike,, and requiriDg help,]'thrown upon the
organiza tio,n in th · t immediate looali:tY, or is, it di .tri bo ted.over a larger
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area, or ,over tlle · hol -•,~rganization !-A. In our organization w·e have

. a.netiooed but one strike at large. 'l llat · as, the Roches,t er strik·e
a-gains.t the obnoxions ·r ules of which I have spo · en. In. the t.b irteen
years of tile exist.en~ of our o:r-der, that, is the only strike that the w bole
ord.e r has been taxed to so_pport. As to loek.-outs. we have had three in
which w,e bave taxed. ours.elves for the s·o pport of the .men.
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manwac
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Q~ Turns his help off !--A. Yes, sir~,oolares.that be must hav,e more
money, tak,e n from t'he wag,e s of bis . mploye· -, and that t·h.erefore their
wa,ges ns.t go dow.n., Iu sueh. an iusta· ce he giv:es, bis employes one
oft o al~m: _tives, itber ·t o accept_hi. te~.ms or to go,.. That, m1 I u ..
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derstand i.t , is a strik•e. from the o he·r side. A look-out, as we ·onders tand it, iai . he.r-e men are discharged for belonging to a,:l abor or.,g anization~
Q. Wh.Are they are discharged for being mem ~ , ,o f an organization.
~ud not :for refusing to ae.c_~pt lower ·w ages t- A.. Yes, sir ; that is ·t he
di ; •1nction .as I unde1 _tand it.,
Q,.. .,our d1ftical .,i,es, then, are of these three de.scription .: (1) where
the laborer feels, that he does ··ot get,enoug;h wa,ges, and ,demands mon, ·
and :i.f h.ts, d,emand is refused., strike .' .; (2) wh.ere the ,emp'loy·e r claims
tbat he i . not making a fair p -olit and demands, of the laborer the .acceptance of a low,e r rate of wage ., ; (3) where the men ar-e looked out
for belonging· to .a labor organizatio-n t-A. Yes, sir. In a look..ont,
prop.·r, money does not •e nter into, the q0,eation at all.
Q. ,U nd . r· tbe,s e three classes most or· all the difflcnlties between em..,
p1oJ~er aud emplo . ed oom.e, as I understand ·. ,on t-A. Yes.,
Q. ·y ou ha,"e·stated how·the laborer m supported durin.g the pendeney
of these ,d ifficulties; state no-_ what means yon re.sort to of keeping th.e
.s trikers 'them•·· _ .l,.: -s united and making the e.trort, contin.non;s. What
measures, if .a.ny., do, you p,ursue to prevent the emplo~· r from getting
1

h.eJp from outside 't·be organization.I-A. Moral snasiou. That, is all.
We often ad~ertise in the papers, notifying eraft .,men of the trade to
stay away f10 . the place. ·where a strike exists.. If ·they ,co.me t . the
plaee . _n.d w· can see them, we w.ai.t upon them at their boarding..bouses,

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HEL.ATIOXS, DET\V.E . ~~· LJ.DOR

1.4

·. •D' CAP·JTAL

lay our grievances b ~fo1~i ·t hem anll ap:peal to their manhood n.ot to,
:help the employer,, aud i.f they a,gree 't,o, lea· -e. w,e nRually pay titeir wa,
:honl e a-gain.
·Q. T.h.en ,. as I un.ders,tan(1, 'these •eh.n.rg·es that we ~e fro.m time to tim,e:
tha·t you tb:reaten violenree and organize vio,Jenoo to prevent the emplo:v·m en of u·ork.rn n outsid,- of your ord r, at~. nnfo.unded ! I nnd.,erst.and
3~ou to sa1 that sueh meas.ures.are discountenanced, asaroJe ·t -~ · · es,
:dr; sue.b n1ea :nres are uo.t on]y .n o·. enjoined, but tb.e3 are neve · eYen
tak n into· oonRiderat.ion io R.-·1od,ge1 I ne,-rer 'knew of au. io:stanoo w·h,ere
'\ 101.e·nce wa- cont 01 plated or ev n tiisenssed. It is al wa,ys the acti.o n
of iadividaals,, for which 't'.he individua]s alone are. r ponsible,
Q• ..·· . ·11 ·t b·e means, then, ·w hic1l you as an order contemplate and employ for 8ecaring . our ri.g bts, are s·trictly within th.e lawt-A. Yes, sir;
~:tr'ietly within the 1a·w·
Qi ·. ·d tb -· cha·r o,e that , onr organizati.one, hav,e .•._ te·u.dency 'to pro.. ~
t1uce rioleuee and insnrreetion are euti.re.lJ · untrne.!-A,, En.tirel,y untrue, ·-0 the lws• . ,o f .m y 'knov.,.l· dge,. I ne·v er knew of an instanoo. wherei
that was oooutenanced or (li ·cussed i'n alodg .., and belong to several
orgauizat'ione.
Q Those org:anizations.of labor, as,I und:e rstand you, are ain1pl,y com.
bi atious amoug· the labor,e rs, to seeure from eap,i tal what they judge to
be a fa·i r distri.bntio,n of the p·ri0fits resulting from ·tbe Joint efforts of
ea.pital ~ud lab<Jr !---A.. Yes, sir.
_
Q. Whatever sha;r-e yon as laborers get of· the prod.netio,n ts io. the
for·m of wi.!,-:e13:!-A. Y,es,. sjr~
Q.. The ·ma.nofaseturer·ta.k,ea tbe artiele procluced.- tbe actual physical
n a·t erial ~es.n it of you.r labors ·re·m.aius in. the bands of the employ,e r'l :.A
•
~ - Ye
- ·.·
Q.. So th.at you cau get no'thing of the re-SUit ,of those labors exoopt
'i:n the :f orm o:f wages
Nothing e,xcept m ·th.at, form"
Q... .I snppo
·•· your existence ,d epends, on your wa.g-es," docs it not,~
,.
Y
A.. es, mr.
Q. -Tberefu~, as I undentand you, these oombioatio~s of Ja~ren to
e·xaet _a fair 1Share of the results. of p•rodnetion are.simply organizations
·i n se-.Jf~defense 1-A. They are absolutely in self~ .efense. I kn.ow of :no
labor organization or order tbat is not an organization for self..defen&&
Q. _But for these organizations I suppose ·t h.e in,d ividual laborer would
·b e left to •OOntend singlehand.e d with t,b e. capitalist, tbe capitalist having· in his.posse-s,.don ·the thing p.roduood !-A. Oertainly.
Q:. The capitalist having in 'h is possession the product w:bich is th1e1
result of :hi.s eiTorts and those of tbe la.borer co:mbined, suppose:he should
deny to the 'Jabover his wages. or retu e to give him just •C Om~sation ibr
bis, ,contribution ·to tha·t result,. what re1nedy would. the laboNtr haVie,
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1
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,-A.

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bot for these org.anizati.ons !-A,. None whatev,e r.
,Q. Ye -· '; he would ha\"e a rem,e dy 10 t'l1e law, would he not !---A. Oh,1
yes; bo.t be: ~1uld not take advantage of it at alt
1

Q. Hfll won.Id b.ait""e simply 'b i ··. right to a la.w suit, would. he not I - ~.

1 dou't know that he would 'haYe .a ri,rbt to sue in t.hat case.
Q,. Wen, assum·1n.g tl'.lat be would .have that right,, what would

~-*,. ·

it.

amount t-0
t would not a·moo.nt to· a·n yt - ·•og.
Q, That is the poiut I want you to bri.ng out. I want to put clearly
before the oountry · lie positi•on that tb.e laborer ooeu.pi,es a-nd to let it
appear that but for thetffl labor organlzati,ons,. w·h.ich you 'testify to 'be
a d •..hich I believe to ·b e wholly within the law and oontempla.ting
notbiu~ but l,e,gat means, the workin,gmen would be helples1.-A. That

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1

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1:s t'he ,case. The law is .so expensi,. .e that we caono take, ad.vautage
o1 it
Mr.. GEORGE. The trouble generally· is not about wa.ges, a·lready
earn.ed,, but abon.t wages that are to be paid for work to be done in the
·f ntu.re..

T.he CHAJK'MAN. My question. i8 this.. Here is eapi'tal on one si,le a.ud

labor on the other, and here .~,s ·t he,thi·n g prod.need by· their jo'"nt eflbrts ..

Tl1e cap·i t.alist alw.a.ys has that produt!_t io his possession and the Ja~rer·
·h as no share 'in it except hls ·w ages. Now·, so.ppose the cap1,t.alist,, ,d ,e alin~
witb th.e laborer single~_h and,e<l and not ,com'bioed. into, any trades uni,ou.
or organization,) after· the laborer has given bis labor an,d ~t has ·been
embodie~ in tbe thing produ.ood, refu;s ...·. t-o pay t~~ stip,u la ed wag,es;.
then the Iaiboror is heJpl ess, or at least be has notbing b ut his right to
~ue for the w·a ges that ha, e been ,e arne<t
The W1TN.ES ··•. If the wa.g-es have been agreed ·upon..an,d tbe emplo.y er
refuse 'to pay acoordi.Qg to tbe agreement,, the laborer has tbe ri. gh.t
to sue for the wages~
Q, But would he, have any· other remedy t-A. None whatel"er..
Q, Now, theu, I ·. sk 3rou ·w hat tha.t legal_reme~v is worth really to
tbe laborer und,e r such circnmstaneee,!-A, We do not. look 11:pon it .as 1
worth anything.. We ex,p ect no protection at all
the law as a
g,eoe·ral rule, beean·. e it. is so expensi.ve tha,t we caon,ot take advantage
of it..
Q. Tha,t is the reason why )"'ODr' trades, unions a·re o:rganized t-A.
1

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mom

That is not the r ~.o.
Q. T , en what is tbe r-easoo.f-A.. I don't.know how·you eould cheapen
aaythin. _; iu connection ·w ith the law so as to give us any real ad:vau.tage
fro• lawsuits.,
Q~ But my queatiou is wh.ether th:e fac.t that you have no practical
:remedy b,y lawsu.it, because as individual la.borers ou have n.o - the
means to ng~t the capi~lis,t ,in. the oourte, ia ihe reason ·why you eom1

1

bioe 80 aa to fight tb.e capitalist,by your oombin.ed i.nfluenoo an.d powert A~ No; I d.o not unden.tand that to be. the reaso.o. w ·e have uot .relied
upon, the law at all to, co:mpel the •employers to, giv,e us our ri,g hts,
although ·b~ere: migbt be ins~an~es w·h ere we could take advantage of
tb.e l~l'W~ If I agreed to work for ,y on for a oo:rta:in am.onnt, aud J 011.
should refuse.·t o pa,y m ,, tha,t ag,g reem.e nt of coume would hold good
in h,w.
Q. But suppose the eapltalist refused to pay ·w hat he batl a,:reed
to pay t-A;, We1I, I s•y in t.b.a·t ease tbe laborer would have a right to
go to law.
Q.._ ·:hen._I ,• .'k yon a.~ in wbat; ·wou'Jd that righ·t , be w·o rtb to the individ.'ua.l Jaborer!-A., It ·would be, worth ·, ~er).. l;; ttle or nothing at all.
By· )Jr. GEORGE:
Q;, Your organization,. as I understan,l i ·,. i - no,t desiguetl to en.for,e e
tbe 0011,eetion of wages a1r·eady ea.rued, b·u't to p·rooure]ust. wages. fo ·
~

1

labor stiU to be performed .-A. That is.th~ i.deat, 'V'bate\ er we.agree or,
sti1,u·i ate to work fo,r we alway .'· a.ecept., ·w.hetber ~t is su -m
1cient com1,en ..

~atio II or .u.otQ,.. ··" our o,rga·niza:ciou, theu, has reference to th• . future t'- .L\. Y . , , "ir;
011r· aim is to secore a larger proportion than we now get of tbe wealth

that '"~e create.
Q You bave uev,e r seeu. aoy la;wyer, I think., who knew of · uy legal
m:eans by which to compel ,a n emplo,y er_to pay you :m,ore wages Utan be
was. willin,g to·PD:Y t·- A., Ob, no;· nothing of ·t hat kind was ever contemplated,.

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16

·CAPITAL.

RELATIONS BETWEE'N .LA.BOK AN'D

The CILUBMAN, I d.o not seem to ba·v e made. the p,n~se of my quea~
tion. quite clear to you. I wish yoo to ·tate Clear:ly in J-our tes,t i
m.ony,, rSO· as to make, a11pare.n t to those w~o read it, the condition
1

in which the individua] labo,rer wou]d be, but for the existence of your
organizations, those o,r ganizations bein,g law£ul in th,e ir ,c haracter·; and,
to m.a ke·that ap,p arent, · . ha·v e.sup:posed.the ,c ase of the capi.t alist ta,k ing
p.o~-ession,, as?~ a]w~ys ~(!@s_und.e r'th~exts ~ orde•r~f sooiety,.,of t~e.
th1ng procluced by ~he Jo1·o t effm~t of h1~ capital a·nd. the labor of tbe
workingmen,. and then what I wisb to b ri11g ont -c learly is the pow-e r
which tb.e ea:p,i.talist, with his money and with tbe :possession of the·
th.io:g produced, would ha:v e over .h.e in.dividnal laborer b·u t fo:r the ex~
1

istenoo of ·these :l abor organizations.
_
_
Tbe WrrNEs · ., L t me state e plicitly be-re that for wo.rk already
done,, if a manufa,ct:urer or other· employer we.r e to refuse ·t o giv:e the
price agreed ·npon in advanee, ·we oonld have a redress, of' onr· wrongs
1

.a t law
The CILUBHAN~ I undrs,t and ·t ~s·t , and then ,a sk yon of what ~eal
va.lue, aa-. general thing·, ·ould ·t hat tight of redress by law, which. is
simply a right to a lawsuit, be to the indivi.d ual laborer in. this country 'I
The W1.mEs.s;; I -d on't kn,ow euough of the caaes, tho,t have been de.eided to be able to determin.e.with certainty·w·.b at real virtue the~e would
be in a ·1awsui't1oft.h at kind, or ·w hat advantage woold accrne in the
workin1,t1Dau ..
The 0HAJBM4N
don't know whether _y ou bave had m·uch exper.[..
en-e e or opportun~ty _for ~bserv.ati,on in, that respect,, bn.t, I ~-·. ow that a
workingman's snit fo · his ·wa. :e s has, generall .· p,r oved to be more expensive to hin1 than the loss of the wa_g es, would have been~ I thwk
there is, really n.o ·p ractical remedy for the individn ·l laborer in tllat
direetion ..
The WITNESS,. Tba:t-.18 true,. Bu,t wbere a m1an. refneee, to ~y wa_g es
that he,·has agreed "to pa,Y h~-is generally n.o·t wort, sui'ng . because the
employer knows,that if~be refuses, to P•Y the wa:'._~ .· · and ho\dtJ the prop
erty it ,c annot be sned ~r; altho~gh, so ~r a.a I know aJIJtbing ~bout
i~., the cost of :et,tin,· . it would be generally greater tn· ·n the, value of
1

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the wages.
By the OBArlUU.·N·:
Q.. In what way d.,o you m=11ke your or,ganiz:ations ,effective in eeoormg
a larger proportion of the joint p,r oductions of labor and capital.;. ho-w
do ,v.oa. aooompH~h :y our end !-A. , •Y oombination ; by oombining our
crafts.m en into organizations,, so a to be equal to the capttalist on the
0th.er side, ,ab.-d "if ·. e ean not ettl.e the m.a.tter by eo,ns.:uJ ta,tion o,r arbitratio-n, th.e n, as a las.t 1-esort, we .sto:t1 11roduction by refasing to, work
W,e say that our lab?'r is w-~ rtb so ~ -o,c b in th·•·· marke·t _i_we h9'.~e .a right
to say that, 1u1d W',e do Ray lt, and lf ·we cannot settle ·t he matter by lH!.gotiati,on or arbitrat:ion t.hen e , rike., When all qth.er means cease to
)lave au~ pJlect, w - 'have. unthiug else left us, bn·t to .s trike. We kDow
we have produced t;)ie wealth antl that we are e·nt1t1ed to a fair pmportion of' ·i t, ,re beli 1,,e,, o·\l·eve . ,, t.hat ninetv•nine e-as.es -ont of e "'er,y
hun.dre<l conld b··. ·_ ·ttletl if arbitration were fairly entered into by both
parti.f.'...•
Q. Is i_t , . .,our i.otenti.on to make any stat,e:me ·t · in re ,a rd to, the 'h olll'S
of labort.........A. Yes; I can gi~ JOtll some information npon that point1
In t b coal mines th · men wor.k ele,re or tw·elv hon.rs, a d.ay. When
the.v ure \\·-orking by t.he piec..~ th:e y work a - loug as t·h ey please, but,
t1te day la borer works usoally t ,en. hours a day.
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17

"TIO
··~
LA' 8
- 0°
A'-TD
'
. -...., ,i0,;p 'B' E'ilr'!\'l'f-£
·• .lat 'fl' ·' 'E
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. L. ..
R 'L·..:.1..
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'

Q .. I .' all or roo5lt of the coal mining done by be pi,eoo !-A. )lo.s t of'
it is tloue bJ: the too .
9

B . ilfr~ GEORGE:
Q,. Cau . Oll t ·11. us the 11r1ce p :r· ton tha : th · me · a.r e 1>a ·:d for that
work -A . I cnnno ..
't t'a.r ie-~ ae.eor-<ling to tbe thlc'k D< s of tbe ,s eam
1

the dan_ger att · ndaut 11-1101 ietting the. coal ,oot.
Q.. J . o e u ·u1ng aI,so d ne 1,,~ t he 'l•i _ . - • I J) ,. SU', ,e j i i _. I
dou know n1ueh about tu 1t liou·e-rcr. I tlou'-'t k.uorv tl1e b.o ur ·• if labo,r
H'n

·11at kintl of work
,Q,.. ·C a - ~-on t, n .1 a·n. ~tluug in r .ganl to fh -· l bysieal. condi. Jou . and
.~ urronndings of t e l orkiu ,r Jleo11 le, their footl,, l1ei1 clothing, aud
" ·Jiat 'l"er ,o ccu sto .~t"Ol lle1·tah1ing to their n1otl· of H. iug f-A .. · .b r · 1 .·
Ill

1

I

dift"' r ,uee -', of our ., in tbo./e 1 s11ects, ,Iep aclin_
cr upon tbe a1nount
flf w·,a01es 1udd. Th . d.any I~i or~r 11erbap~, li -c· , rnoi- poorly than
··111.v of tbe o _ · er:., ha, -. th · least bouse 1~001n c1nd th ·· most illr~t"fii:11tilated
r-001 1 .· the lea t rnt'aU of dncatin,_,. his child en, and the le.a ~t 011portnu1t~ for oc~ l,tv .ancl other ad . · ll' ag·e s. - It n eom _·. the ,c oal mi oer.,1·,
~rho, reee1 V', c ' 1no1·e \\"'~-CJ' s, hut,. ' ll? g~nera]lr liv in 4: ~ittle tw?-room I
bou..- , Tb :, .e houses are bu1l . n1 loug row"', not 11 11 · a, 1v1th no ,
g1·0\~U1Is a:~_
d .D O fen~ ' 8 ~b{)-n.. the ~10~.S . ~' a~d .th,~ ~ I ii ~e-~1 ~ u.tb,~ ~om...
1,an1 - to1"1 . , ,r o t x them. about all t.h. . s can e~ rn ft1r th ir A"ood.s..
0. Hat"e any of ~ on ,ge·otlem ·D. any· , pecim, ,ns - f th
·"'kets, or
"- ··uiuplaste1's," as ·e c, II th m down Son ·h, wh·'ch the 1nannfi1.c.t11rers
i.~..~ue · o th · ·10ie:u ·- li
kav . not any of tbent. now,, btt', I now wha.t
the,· are.
1,

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By tb CllAIRlliLN:
Q~ Bow ext : u ·f --e ils J~'° 1.r 1rersona.l kuo·wJedge ,of tbe co,udition of the
110111,e of the Iaborjng p _· pie _- . •· • .· .··ell, my kuov.~ledge is,mo tly local1z~c.1.
kno,"' Uttl . co 'PHrativ, tr o-f the coudit.ions ,o f th :· labo,r in~ peo
t•le in ·re Ea t ;, I know more abont ·1teir eon<lition in the mi.ddle and ~
·,v(:l-i;tern port on of -nnss.li ania and in Obio and i*rrther \\"'est ..
Q., H xe you ·, -j ·ited t1,-e bon1 .· of tbose ·1l ople I bit\"'e.
Q,. lu ·w hat )lla.ces, - -. n .P nn , (y·a iia prb1 -ipally.,
have left
the snbjec _. .· f the 'l aborer no"'" how . 1. er nntl go 1· to t'he n1in r
Q. Dou 't ,-ou cons1d ·'" · him, a labore1~ !-Ai ,, ell, 1no1~ kill :.nters
into lus oo . u:pation. .. -_ u , 1~1 bot-er is not -uppos tl to b a ininer o.r to
lte able to tUrt uo:d. A ina.u mn .t lui,,, . been tangh·t the bu, in ss;before
lu~ cau be I'f_g ard, cl u: a ·1n11er, ~ n.d th ·. bu··. ines . is, more intricate aut1
di -fU ·u1t, to lrarn :n1 so:10 plac s ·b ~· i ,o thers.
Ill C - . lRJJ. . 'N. A _s I a.t.n UNing the term laborer, it 3[}•li ;s to all
c I· a~ e:, who perl·o nu 1n a u uaI '\\'" Or· ...
'flte \\_I.TNES - It is a,11 Jabor; but ·we usually di \"itle it l · to 1lled
and. n11s.·ilh-: d lalmr·. _ b : work of t·h e .1nin r iij. kUl.d hi'bor to a .··. r ·a.in
exh~.n
I ln1,·~ ~tt.n the h1bo-re·r:s along the l\lonoDga.hebt and tile ·_
glutnJ·· R-1,vers, ~111d do·wu tb ~'a n-Handle. llaih·oat'l toward ~ -11 . -_ lin,g,
anti ·u fa,e t at all :11oiuts on the ·roa<ls I atli.n,g ont · f Pitttsbnr~ h1 Th .·
l1un:s~, of tllO ~ inen flt:; a rnle ··_ n~i:st,, as · ha,~e ,s aid, of two 1~ouu1:,j-Oll
nit '"tai.rti anti the otbe tlownstair: , Tb hon.. es, ·re buni:, JD 101 :" row ·
witbot1t J>aiut ou tlle outs1d _,. The k'itcben · nrnit-ure con~iat ~ ,crenerall~..
ot" a tov,e and some di 11 :s, a ft' , -cbairi. ancl a, ti.t.b l.e. They :ha~,e uo
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earJlets on the floors 1SO far .a s I lta ve ~ . eu. I ain spe · king ow abou.
th lower r.arts of' the. hou ;es; don'' t know about U:_p tairs.
B.r ~ Ir. GEORGE!
Q. Is the k.i tchen in. t,be lower ro· m of tbe hon e or ·is it separate f-.2 C

•

Ca LAW)

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18

R .E LATJ,O NS 'B ETWEEN LA.lBO.B , A.ND· CA.PIT'AJ.,j

are u,o ,c .1I.ars u.ncler·
Ir fh -re'\\~ ·re tr I~ rs the ·01iner.s · oold ba enabl -•d to J.a.y

A~ In th . lo·w.er room,. In 1nnn ··. instanee_ t.her,e

the loo~•

t

stock of ··n1,,pHes.
By t}1e CllAIR ..t lAN •
Q, Ot" , ."hat null , ri 11 nre ,JJe J1ou~es 11s11aU_ bnilt t-A. Tllev ar - al.waj~ frnnu ; 11ou:st
l cauuot recall ::u1 instan.ee of one being built of
aD] of' ,t lr n llt~,rJ.,1l thiu1 ~~ood.
B . ." ..1t'I r~ G''EO
. . .·~''RG
"'.. ' :
Q. Arc tit y. Jt.h1ster,etl itusltl.e f-A., In some 'i'ost·ances t'bey are aod
• otlu 1·s ·. b J .·u:e uot..
, \" f~e
RlTAN:
Q ow· are tlU:\Y llS to warmth .- ' . Li in,r as tbe·r e )leo·p)',e d'o 1n the
coal re~i.oIJ ~, ·t h J.nh.lrtan cnn 11'- u ou1 untl gatb .-r t"noogh fue·1 to kee'l>
·the ·hon ..:e s ,r n1 rn., .a.u,l I uev,e r -u,ew any of t.hem to uft~e'l~ from colt1~
B . ...fr. - EOR ,G :
Q. an '~on d~ ~c:r"~ h tbe. fnra ture a little m1or•e fully!-.A . I tbu1k I
lla·\"0 gi , ~t~H ~\ on ln·. tts llt orly n111 he a.rti,eJ'e . offurniture that they ha _r0
ju tbe 11' bon~ ·~-a, .- to\~. and t11e nteu ·iJs t.hat ,g o with 1t.
Q . T 1e _lt!-e pin~ ap·~u :t1urnt J up,. tnirs I sui,p.os,e t-A. ·y;e,s , · fr, but
in on1c nistnnces \Tlle·re t'be famil.,,, is J.ar-g·e tt js down stairs in ·t1Jie
k i t.ub~;n •
.By t1l .· CHAlR,MA - :.
Q. ·"\\--h~t 'kiud of bed-,,!. -d•o the. miners,have !:-A•. I never slept a 011g
the1n nn<l do unt kuo,v..
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_ Q, I ·~tl1e 'kitclien al ""·O ·1l1 e si _ting r11om of th.e famiJy·1-A~ Yes, s11r;
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it i tli· ·• ~ittiuc:ir 1·oon1~ kitcb n u1 tl Jlai■I r.
Q. Anti hur,1r,r·, _ -· , And libr·1~.r. ·. · o: · etimes th0y have some liiflo
p·i.c tu re · on th · ·. "~ a· Is•.
B

the =nAIR}I N:
Q, ~ ·.Jt ,t t ·,. i·t 1.d of I, ict n I"· : s f-A. 0 b, som,e little cbrom os or ·p riints.

Q.. Doc ·. t1_1( 111.i1u~~1•·u~.uany have a uews.pap ·.-r ~-A. ·. e~, ·ir; wher,e.v,er
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be ,e~n .,Oortl it.

Q. He

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usuan,.. an int 1110: nt man 1---A. Yes; he g·enera.1Iy· ca:n

: read~

·

Q·. Ho'W aro thr ,y· snJlp]ie(l as to c.l othing f-A. W .· JI, it ·is. absolu~ely
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neoes=s.a . 1·'.(,r a rnin :. .r to lut \-e two sui Is The oa.e tha·t .be · ,e ar WlieD
wo1king ;> n the nii.u, · is ,o,f tbe 11oor,e st qt1ality, anrl usually very b1a.ck
· aud tlirty ,. n1ul t.beu he lu1 · an 01:tl1oa.1 · ,sni.t of clot,bes. be .·ides.
Q Ho,\' are hi:s " ·ife aud. ebildc .n clot- ed ... T ,e y a·r e clad i· the
p1<] i u · -·t 11ossi ld ,. ga rmnr n ts,, a:s a rul · ,
Q •. \VJJ·rtt WflJC s do ·a th • n. "o,er get ge-nera.11.~· ·I -A. Tl e wages ·ay
avera~~ -.·i o $.t60 a day; bn. ,. d aling i tb~se ·truck· s.tor~ _when the
eu.J of · h" u1,outh c-omea around he ,generally ha.s, very little left. I
lu1,-e k·oo·wn ~ om ~ of then, to receive iu ae ua-l money at. the eud of th&·
m.o uth. tl.Jirt-y-ft \·e oen ts afler the rent ·_•as taken 011·t .
By · r .. GR011GE :
Q. Are. they· charged rent for those,houses t-A. Oh, yes.
B,y t. e1CBAI'RMA.N :
·Q \V'.h at amo11n·t , o,f rent t -.A .•. All tbe.·w·a y from t4 op tots or· a
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

+

RELATIONS B,ETWEE,_··. LABOR AND

,u.· .PIT.AL..

19

mouth., Som,e of the, houses,·hnve 1no~ riooms than two, but in the ma..
jority of ctu::es t'l1 ,e y haV" · onJy two :moms,.
tition d don ~t kno .. tlie fact.,

If t e u,p,p er floors am par..
1

_.y· , 'Ir. GEORGE :
Q~ What i~ tbe u ·s ual size of tt.e low · r room · - · . A 'b ont 15 by 18•
feet or 18 ·h.Y ,20 t~er., or on1 •thin:: of tlaat kiurd.. I hav ·. no d lstin ,,t
·:reeol] ·!~tion o:f (;,..,, r se~in,, l one of tlio ~e 11:ouse , ·wii 'h ,11.i e@llnr uu,1,e r it .
Q , 0'1 nr,1. they n. 'Dally wa.r .m ·. d,, '"Rtth a sto,·c or w··· th a fl.1•,e~l)lace !'-,,. u~ uan:r bv a cook·~ toYC11
~
,Q.. ls,· b .l t th only heatin ,a- a11pamtus t it y ba · f-A. Gen raH\·, I
think.I!
don' k.uow u hetlle1 the~.· ha'\"e any upstair,~ or 11ot, toi~ I
bay,e n~T" ~· been npstai.r .· n an, of the 'b ou ~e. , IJnt that is th v.~hole
ot~ the Ii · ating nppnra. ,' D~ down. ,·t .tics.
!I.

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By 'tbe Il lll:\I.A.N :
Q.. - o·w are t ose J•eo1•le 1,tuat ed at:; to ,sci.tool r•ri, :1 ~es,! - · .. lJ ,~u ..
aUy t e uliner in the. oft-cool rei.•([l'ions., r.uul I tbinlt' h1 our hanl-c · l
region~, too, ·p ut h " ~ bo:r1s o ,, 01·1~ in the inin.e y·e-r, jOnng.. I Llrt ,re
ol,~e1·"ted bo~ ,8 of fron) eigl~ ' to tou1 tl'en y · el'F ·: ,of ·•1.. ~e worlciug· in ·,be,
ha .d,~·Coal region, aod ui tbe ,~of.t codl n1iues l,oss of te.n or tw,e l\~e ·, P:tra
of .1,ae are nble to a <,,i .· t. th ·Jr ,~[U" nh!t. r11a't,er1~1nv iu the win.e, a1. ,d uu.le s tl1 ni·ntr l.Jag, a Jar , nuuibfr or them bi,_'bors
are us:uanu
rn1J
11"

f t'bere ~lr,e only one Ol' tll o
J)o3,~. :in th ·.· tamty 'the f■!t'ber ,·t.euer11Iltv takes tbe1n j ·· to the mi e ,, i.t b
bhn. '"fbey go to , ··hoot. rsowe, but their meaDs of education is Yer.v
plo) t! ·, l in f a

:i ~-

·he:i1,•iug th l.ir fatber..

liruite,l.
Q _ ls that l>ecnu,_e be father J)refe · that the hos .sboul<1 as; i ,t. hitn
in his "~ork or b. ca u s~- of a la k , f choul pi-i ,9.ile ges .. . . .,.;
The scl.t,oo l
J)J'l\ JJ.lt1',ge · are gei eraUy goot1 enon,flfb but absolut · nee ~·~sHy cou1pel ·
th iii b~r 10 muu,y mustnn ~. , to tnk t.be chilli iuto the mine with l.ti.m
to assi~'t in wi.n1tiug bread for tb .· fan~ .ily ..
Q, _Th ;- e i. no con·1p,ul ry ,se, ool l .·, 1 in p ,, n _s.ylvania-1 is there,'f - A,
.· o, ,s1r•
•Q Do 'f on tb1n."' of ani~thi u.g further tha·t , ~on. ar ; able to s,t a.t e a ., o
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the oond,i tion of tb> · u1iu~:r nntl hig tau1Hv ·- . - ..

· b· k I ha\"e cove.1·~~:l

I ha\. alr,eady : tated .
Q. u,·e th ""Y us uaul~un,y lc:u ·t!l ntbl:Che"l to tbe1r 'house,s , ~ A ,. N·o
sir. In tbe m.a jori J uf ,cases they b«l't"·e, no :ti ·n .ie a.round tbe hon,~e -'".
Tb · houses ar bull iu lone~' r,ou· · set .r ig t ou· n the -un ,vithout i
tree or anJ,~thi.ug to sh,el e them.!t They are usuaU - close to the c-0ttl
mi.nes.
Q . Do auy ,of' · bo e .1iue s ever .a -0cuo1ulat ans 1 oney '! ~ .A. Tbe~e
are son1e in8taut.~s of that,, e ce1,tion.al C,i ,·~ ,. -as, there ilre in ahno :, t
e,-c..ry occupot:ion Ccl,ses wh . 1•·. milH:~rs hav e a •cunru]at,. d ·• Ii. t:le f1n1d •·.•,
Q., ~ · bu.ta.re tl1e lerwn:71.l bu·brt~ of fhe 1niuer- ~eneraHj'"' a:~hi~~onoin> 'r
or a d1~po· 1t1,o n to s~1ve. b1 ~ •'a ~,· ,s. -A. He A' ts so very, Jittl t ·. sav
frou1 that be rurel~ 1-\:·es an,-; tbintr. Hi~ d · -he m,' l' b to economize,
bu.~ bis op1>ort~~~iUes f~r ~t ,are _tiO 11oor t.l1at ~1e seld.om i-·. able to arcu- .
mu.late any sn.v1n.~rs,, Jet h1s d_e 1r · tor · conoJB) b · ,~ -r so < a:t..
·
Q . Yoo ,c all the win I a -~killed. labowr to some exte t - ls h,e,re aD'V 'I
,o the·r el=tts:, ot· labo· "'t·s iu ,o·r about the 1uiue8 wbose '\'fa,ges, are still lo·w er
than those of the , · in.er !- A...
,; bnt such wo k ~s, usually done by
young bo~a Su.· b woz·k a , dri· .ill" tb,e U}ole& in the pit i d,oue gen- [
- entllj b.1· the, cbih]re11 of the :1niners. I am sp ·.aking of :p laces w'l.1ere ,
th y use, mules Some places the ·. . do 110 - use them., -bot ,d.i p t:be coal
a,n,d p rm·i t tb · miuer to ,11u ,. h h l. ea r "llOn(!,·.

tb.e ground pre·t tJ fu lI.,~in

ll' hat

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Q. ls tli~ie .a uy just c.ause for -on1p1a'i.nt that t11 · 1r1n1r.r spenlls in J1is
J>t11·son.li1 habit , inunry th:· t he 11n~J1t save ·a/-, - -· ·T here are iustances
,vb .~,r e tI1e Hl n dri.uk "Tbi',.1 k,r ·o excc,iss.
Q Ilut y.ou do not think tba that is ch . .r J,:eable upO'n them .as a class
ruo1.~ 't .hnu.w; upon other J eo1.1le · ,_ _-. .:'o, sir; I thiu 1_ot,.
T

Q.. So iu t.bat regard you ,vould not say that their con(lition wh.i,e h
you hn ,~e ti ~seribed is. ovrh1g· 'to an~r great • · f,u1lti'aess ·i n _tbe matter of
J)ersonnl l1a bit - fhau perta i HS o tbe rest of ·t he v.rorld f-A, No, sir .;
I think not.. I have kno,,vn n1eu to quit co .1l~·n1ining :a nd ~·o i.uto <1t b >.r
a vocution~ i 1 ]ife and prt~s · ut 110 tte ·u.li.~1r cbtn'•net ri.sfics tU~.t iuguishing
th ,1u f1·01n tlie r,e· t of ln man ~t',.
CJ.. l n t ll e en! l~\ 11.a r or you 1· examination yo,111 sa itl that \V(Hnen are
1nen1 berti of yon 1.. ord Pr. or 111 u,, llo 1111, :. n: b r.s I 8 i t 'the 1)'U f 'JlOS · of the
order ..,ud of~ tlu.~~ - labor Ol"~tni·i zation~ .~'t:H ,r aHy 't o ameli,orate the con1liUon of 1~1.Joriug ,vom u us ,relJ as of I ·1bor.i11,g,1n··- u -- .i\ ..., Yes; s.ir;: that
is outt ot~ the o! 1,icf~t~.
'fbe . 'HAIRJ,I A'N l notieiP t.,\T,O lndb.~.s 1,ri ·r '_ ll ~ this n1ornin", and it has.
occ111·1 l l tu .1ue t lu1 t t IE ·Jt un1y 1~el" ha 1•s be *Otu1ect C"(l ,,:it h. yon , order.
O·u of tb · huU., ;),N here int1,oduci~tl herself" a~ 1\l1•~,. E ,., A, Bry i nt, and.
stat -:d tli a . ~ht, ,,~as a .1 ntm ber <~f he .K ui,g llt of La.. orl'
T be CnAI.RlIAN~ 1[To, llrs~ llnY AXT .. ] I erba11s you would be ,vilbng to
t:n.1;- or flu~ c;o.111 u11ttee \\ Ith your ,Tie,v·s of the su·bjee't uud., ,r i.n \"re,sti,ga..
tionf
Mr . DBY ANT. lly ocqt1:ointnn,c -with tbe or,ganizat· on h,a - ·n ot 'been
of ,~ er_y Ion g ~tan,,u Ug. I cl U1, I~
Yer, pei·fi ct l ~t ·11 HI di 9 l.. wit'h. tb 8 0 bj ect s n.iu1 -,,iLt ~- o~ tb.e -0:rg-auizatiou,. which conunetuled tbemse1 es t,o my
jndgrnent uutl ,also to, iuy ~y1up·tthie ,. so 1 became a 1nember a ,)~ear
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Tbe, C11a1u1-- .. For rny o'\1:- 11 part 1(and I bn,"e· no uoubt tha Se ator
G€org -agree with, u ,e) I sbould be Y~iy glnd to ·b ear frotn. the ·m em·b e,n; of t.he order of ooth ;; •x:.r s nny int~ormation tbey may be able to
give bearing ui•on tbe ,o,n.d i.tion of the laboring ,vomen of the country
fl)r

1

·w,~n a~ npon

tllat of the laboring 1uen.
),Ir, G EO R.GE.. l certa ~ ll ly thiuk _hat is
ou r inqnir1 ...

'·ts

very iru p-0rtant bran·c b of

1

Jlere. the counui t,e~ ,Jt\iou1·n tl until F brnary 71

W ASHJ:NGTO ."',. February '1 ,I 18831,
lloDE111.~]).. L ·-. _,.- ·o --- ,· call,e , e ' .., u1 ~ na. t ·,o 1 ,e outinul ~cl ..
r lie UlIAlltlIAN. - on HIU~\"' })VOCee,I With your .._tat -·. 1nen't in our OWH,
wa:r, .1\Jr aytuu
'f.he '\\ rrNE ,~. ,\'hen the. hearing closed yeste,n l,ty : was spea "in1g

of the d.omest.it, ,c:oullit-ion,s. and s,nr.rountliugr of our nitn~1~s,.
nu~ CHAIRllAN.. - es. Yoo n1!1y m,o , f you p1:•· as , extend ,J 'O Ur
sta- :meo·t to the con,lition antl d.01nestie tl~tuation of' the workin,g c·1asses
,~1.u~ra1J,1r so 1ltr :a-s -ou ha-\"e. kno·\i·l _dg,e ou tbe ubj : c.t .
The \V1TNE s., \Vb _u you leave the n1iH,. r aud go to the iron work,e r
·t h ·• man ,vl10 ,vorks ·1u the irou-1nUl~,. you :6ud the 1zsocia.l eondi,_ 1on. and.
tnur.onnding:$ somew·lL"l _ i1upro,. . ed-:1oole home comfort ,, more of tbe
Ji tle thin"'-~ tb~lt go to make a bom.e oon1f"o.'rtable aud 1> easaut.. ' ,be
-1~on-,rorker h·· , isu~,uy mo - r-001n and_·b etter ft1i'ui'tnre,, ear1,ets, aut'I so
on, a11d h.is c.hHdren arc better clotbed.,, in gnrw,··-nt~· ueater and of better
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

2,1

RELAT'I O~S BETWEEN LABOR AND CAPITAL.

qoalitzr. The iro·~-.workers, ha.\:e ~~e ad.v ao.~age~ of' the nu1rkets in the
]arge center . of 1uduRtry, the .c1.t1~·.s , ..~u tb~t t?e,y .c3;n .ge~ a grf:at .·r
varlet~
..,. of footl a.n d ar uo - confined, hke the ·min r ,. in i olatk ·d ·1
- .tuoJ~ .
tious, to pcrbap,s a visit f ou1 the butcbe.r ou.ce or twice a. •.·. ese:: ~,. 'I.Lu.:\\.r
,e at mort fresh bet fas, a general tbing·, und a': I ha\~ ,.aid., bat"", usnaU.~
more ltvi11,g 1·00111 a1u.l that n1ore . '"O·r nrurtald}"' fur-111.sbe(l.. Dut. if :, o·;, g-o
among tbc L"l.'boi■, : riS ,en1pl· ·,sed ·n t . e .·1on-rnills 1-,o n will firul th ni ]1utldled tog .,t ber in te:uen1ent hon.~es and no more t=omforta.ule than tho

·11;·

B Mr.. G 'QRGF~:
,Q. Plras · tatl~ thr _distinct· o~ b~twP ~ n tbe irou~ :-.·or·k er aud. the
)11,bor F in t he ~ron 111ill s . -1.\.. 'I hre labort"'r tbt:r.1• _ pt1"rtorm~, the. ht1n y,-y
,,·01•k·, the uns i ~Ued 'Vrork, and ,rair s 11110n the ~killel] '\'.\"'Ol'"ker, the :ronWftltker, Tb@ la ho1-e1'$
·etvt.. froin $1 to , ,1.25, or perhaps som .1ti1n
11/1'5,, :ll d1:1y.. ''{heu "-. ~ l)()ak of n "-1abore,r "' in the i:rou-,vo1ks . it ·is
4

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nntler~~tood tba ·-l\'e ,lo not :1nea n a n1an ,vho per:form,s, auy .' ~nied ln bor..
,vhen yon get, abo,- , th ·, lahurt r-· the ni II ilfl . desi.,:natet_l by tb .· cha1 ~
ac'ter of the purti'cnh1r work 1n v.~hich tl1ey are engaged; tbel· are callet'l
u rollt:rs,'' ' linL·:bers," ,&c~, and nro ·. -iUed laborers.

Bsr t be CH.AJ.Rll~~ =
~

Gi, e u. ,~, if you c-·111, the rntes of wages that those di· ere ~tclusses
of' vlOI kers. r. cei ,·.e .-A.. I cau refr~ ~,b my m.e1nors- npon tb~it subJect ' tutl.
make my .staterueats nior ·. definite 'b ) ret~n·ing to a lis of pri,ces vrl1ii . h
I. :h a,.·. ] :ere.,. 1•repared b3 .l ll' . . \'Veek.~,, of .P iUshux:glt., w.h o is: ootl "'luth orit:r, ,aud ·wbos), sat .meut . · ,re ,vol b3- the atteo··ion. of' the ~ommit -ee.
Befo . , preseuti i ·r tb,La,se fi,g ores, ho,r,e ver, . bave a reqo,et~rt t.o n1ak · of'
tho commit ee., ~ 1n uUoH~d :ye,s t rda -, by "·ay of illustraftin rr- some of
our difficulties, t -, t1_;o uble that '"' ~ hatl las..t, ear ,;with the firm ot· J·a1u . •
unni gham,, Sons ,& Co. I should Ir".,e to ha,-e the name of fh: tir.n t
om.it ted from. th.c r,ec-0rd,, becauise '"'e do not wish it to ap1iea,r tu a't we
arc dispo..~ : ll to exult o\·er any victory 1bat•w,_: may ha, e J?aioell, and
also ·because the rel~1tioll'=s bet,,t,eeu, Mr. ,cuunin:c1:han1 anll his err1Jlloy,e·s
stnee they car.ne to an untler · taudiug lu1 ,T· beeu of the most pleasa 1:t
e 1aract r. I us . hat tbe name b omit-t: tt
·r, GEORGE,. The ,~alue oft.he s:fateme.uts, tbat are made befor,e tl1:.
oom1ni _t,e · ,v ill be gre;i t IJ: ine.1 eased.b,y h=1 \; i _.g tJ1 en1 d,efi n ite and .s peci tic,
and I th· nk tb · recortl had bette.r rem a.in tUi, i't -was made y st rda.,~·;
bnt you· rt-qu . t to ha,,e the name omitted will a1,pear in our pr,o c ·~·. di11gs t.o~day"
The CHAIRMAN. ··•es; thie name 'h ad bett,e·r a:ppear.. Your reqn. .· . ·t
to ha ~ it struck out ,vill ,a1JJ1enr also a;nd. ,vd.1pm-et"entany 1nisconstrue.
tion ,o f :,.-our mot.l ,7.e in m:Pntiou i ng t be u ain e of tbe firm.
The ,vrrNES \ W e'11, I laonld pr fer to .ha1 e the name omitted ; bot
of course it-r ts with tbe commit.tee~
A 1n1dd]er "~ i JI 1ua c- on au average,. $3.a0 a day. H,e bas to pa.:,,- a
''helper" son,etbiu,g out of tbe price. p .r to11 tl1at hl' reeei,. .es; wlJic·h
n~c1uoes bi ,~ o·"T n co:ru 1,e n~a "on o u llo11,·. $3.uO i d a•.7 autl bo work .s on
an al'"era,:te ahout five da· ~'lj ·in the "~ eek, lleea.1u;e ther,e is :nl '.\\\ays sometl1iug to be done to :fi1s furnace that require··. Htbout a day otr.
Q,~- ,··. s l u 1ul,··r ·_ tand ~ ou,, t be 1it1d.dler hire the '' hel11er" him self ~
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A. Yes, s·ir.
Q. ,S o that he heco1n~s an eu111loJ,~,e,l~ of labor to tb.at ext~nt
!\.... Yes,.,
l 't i: . absolutely u~r.es ·,~1r:r that c ij.b ouht If b~ tlid uot·J do it the firna
1-

wonl,, l

h ,._ll'\re

to do ft,, tuul iti ~H-\""es them

t1·01 ,.

·le

O

luind 1·he matter o,-er \."

to h iis. clut rge .

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

22'

REL --T,1 0 ~8 BETWE,E N LA.BOR ,AND CAPJTAL.
1

Q . About "·bat wages tlo tbe tlnddl~rs pay tb:eir hel11 r.s ,~A. I don't
---

k now~

- · ·Q~ ~J\'b out ti} sam·e as tl1·e eommon Jabol"er wceiv,es : A ·. o; tbeJ
get--betb'!r lay t11an the con 1no1t Jai'b or, ~r~
_
_
·<~~ Dn, --·011 call tb -.n ski]letl l:,t ·)ort~r~ ~-- A Not necessa.rH,~.
,(l,. I)o ~tl1,~s· ::rtt from $1 to .s~ a day·-~-A. l tl!i1(~ ~bout~,82 1, day~
Ju the hn1· he~JUng tnul in tl1e glide n1ul 1"0Uin"' uiiUs ·· c;;. -o·n ot tell wba _
the.:y Jct, hut' I kuo1 hn · u fore1nt-1 ,. ur i ho 1nen ,,. ho h.- ve cbarge o-f
·t he 1011.s. ron h, the ton~ Tb ; y hh· . the ni-en ,,·ho work at -the r-olls .
~lntl t hPy inul~o thru1~P~ \~e:s. front -· 1~, to 815 a day b.r their contract.
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l[r. (~ RO :.. f"l•:.. _, :~11!u ~n, t ha a I ittl . n ore fhH,). . -

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·T b . \V1 XE
1·01 ·i nst lllCC. - S[lll]lO~o l l1ave charg ., of a. -t.r.a-in of rolls;
I t~, t~ tl1·e couf'r·tct lo f \, ll th - ~ron bJ' _be ton, null. I hire m,F help,
,, h;tt ~\·,e r Ul·1.:-r bt 1·1 }ces:,,-try to nruut~ tl1e lt-- a.t iug nud. J1e 10l1:iug a.:od
ti., tJi:ng up aut'l tl1e bn itllin• · _- .ntul I JJay tba.t uel1) out of the ,c outraetJ),r·i ee fhat I 1·t Llii>i ,·c. ,,hn t ,~( r ig l,e ft is uJJy ou~n com flensm.tion, my
J>•ro tit... I-· i!S ~k i11 eel lal1or a 11 tl re(l n i1· , -.s .a .A'r;e rl . <1 ~al of e -perience. A.u
i ne, x ·p erj e need in an ct u Ye1~y cu sit · spotl t.h - ~ or li: . .
B,:,- th C -,AlR IA ··:
Q" 'l IIt~ 11 :i ii ~1 dd ition to t1 nt, it rPq u i r~s t 11:e power of co1nm anding
0 ·4 ::-;,.

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nu,l c!o1J.trolh11g· JUE n.,

· upJ)os.e . ·- .1\, •· o so u1ucl1 ,of that, ·b ot it n,~
t_
Jn i.1 _- • a ~r · at ti(Illa I of xki l. Ther-e, ·i s noth i _1g but the er.auk that ·t be ·
tut·n ·m
·o tigbteu 'the~rou~, to,<1(=-teriuinc tbt; \\'id . h o,t" the b,.n·r t:hlrt t~e. iron
i.s to be rolletl in o ., ~nu.1 it r,equi~es. a g;l~J.t de.al of ex1le1·ieoce to do t:hat
l\ 01..-k. l_lrof n 1.-I .-··, ant I fo1~ tb n t 1·en son fh e nu.1iu get , iry b •."h p.r:ices. _,
J1n1vo ut,Ye1 kno,vu. fheu1 to ·11 orlc i'or Jess fh:.au the ·u··~ges, ha.-v,(, ,s tated.,,
am d l b U,\O J;.,nowu th 1n · o make 1nor Tlr. e n1en liv better-,. of
· cot rse,, iu 1n"o11ort.ion as hev reeeiYe inoro !non -Y tba l the otb rs . ,
1' b~··y oft,en oc~cn11,y nn entire I ouse the! J~.elv-eij nn<l ba\·r. it .n atly for~
11hd1ed ; ,(t-1ul. if the,r l•il ,~e cl1ildre-n that can play the ]nsu o, or if tb y
]Ht\" -· nJn ,p,,ar fhr nn1si t, tlle.t ,-ri.ll in 1nani instnnce·s lu1,~e :a. flit; ·n.o in. the
h0118'f', an(l geut:r·a ny hti,Y l~·u}o.~· lif. ' 11n( ty ,ven. ' '"'hen yon lea ,,.e bent
=·n il go to ,c le.1:ical htbor :i.· is not ~o ~a-~,--· to t ell the ra _,e, of eon1.pen nti,on .,
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an t'he ,,~.ay h~n1 $6 ll, ,, -· ~k. to 8~0 or $2;.\

it ,,. arie ~o 1nuuh

cl ,;rks,. grtn\·n 11u.·u, ,,rho ai

I kuow

_l ·k ing fo,r $1 a ,l . i.k.
i

Q. Are: .r ou speJ · h1"· now of clei•k.~ in fuctorie~ orof eler1~.s in WPr~'ln-tih~ eStitbUsbm,e uts .. - _ .• In inereantilt, t•stablit)buu~nt , ·1n -u who are
n1~ n1,~n11her.s of o-nr 01·ler.. Tb >- te1r-gra11h ,r~ u1 our o der mak : from
E;OO to $UO a inon tb a t•cordh1 g· to ffH:~· r ski U a 1ul ,ex pr ri "'ln~et \:V"" bat I
il.a "-e u o ,,~- ,s tn ted. co,~~1·s i u a, g~u ~r~tl \\"tly f he .l ~1... -- e· , th a _. be]o ug· o OU'r
onler,, btit, l do Hot n ulPftal.~ll to go into au tit(~ \"'. ·r rions braucht .S, ."'n tiet~1-il, b(lcnnir~ ~ onr f'1·i _nd· , b ..lon~ing· to the ilift(~•ren ~ trade· ·-au,l ooou11,at ions \\" i 11. u1e. t v.· i tb yon ,1u1i11g t be Jl rog,res·t-1, of tu i ~ i o Yesti.ga t ~on, and
'\\' ill be abl:.. to ~-ntei-· n101+e ~1~(1' i.fi•t!,~d1~- into tbe,i:r o·,\~u Ii.ne.·,s of bn h1e.s _
thnn I eoaltl tlo, so tlt.ut rt ,\·ould bo a ,, ·•-t,ste of -hue fo.r 1ne to atteUl'(J·t
to dt1.sc1·1be· iu 1b.1.tail thei1r ,~~1rio1 s •eo1uHt.iions~ I woult·J .~tate-, ho·we.\T•e r,
t 1nt th re i:s a glol:._ 1ng desir OH the iiart of our order, which. is enterta.illt ,l nl~o largelr, l tlunk, bl 1nnny of the other labor 01 O'.anizations
oif t'he ~fn1nt1 y·, tlu1t. nrhiltrc,ltion hall 1_1re,. . a.il us far ns, llOSsibl - as a.
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me:111~ of' sc·ttliu 0 •· dispnte,ij be·· ,,:-een ,e1n1l loy ·-Es an,1 th ·_ ~i r e:m11loyes'fhat i~,, 1:rbere·\"er t.Iu:J 6'1,U me j\t ou eqnitu b1e ground~ The, ,"mployer
k ·110,~ in~. just wl1at ·,l-e n1ukc, \\~e natn1.JllJ- ,van .- o l"uow wl1a.t h.e
Jua.kes., nu<l
we t'1-1u1.i0t
tlu,t J.. no·,, l.~d., - -_ h has an n:tl i"~1utage
O\ ·P r us. in. oU onr U(}ogot.iatio-n - W r. ha, · no n1,...ans of telUn;, -n~hetber
hi·s .·•ta.tcwents in 1ega1•,d to llis bnsineiss a1•,e true. or uot, autl. t.h oul7
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ba.,~c

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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23,

REL TIONS BETWE1E, 1P" LAROR A -D CAPIT.AL..

\1'8\Y the. ,difficu'Jtv ,c an _b e sol . ed io 1na11y insta~ces is for the ·wo1·kiog,..
1n.an to str.i ke... ' I hen if the emploser can~pa,, ~ t e wa_ges tb,e_y dem:and
'h e pays it, :1 nd if be ca.nnot, he does. not, That is generally de1nonstr ttf.d by the strike. wlu~u it oecnrs; but I luive no hes.i tat1on ·i ns yiu_
g that i_
f m~1nufactu~. r~ a-11(1 _other ~~nip1oyers wouhl ,con.fide. more !ll
tbl ir . ·u1p,lo -~_s an<l exh1lu.t their books to th. 111, or to sorne Jlerson u1
whom the 1neu .ha.\'"',C l",ootid,nc@, strikes woultl be .a,V"oid.·).d in nearl,y
ev . r,.- case.. \Ve do not c ire au~"tll1u~ abo1r: th·· pro,:6;_ tl1e e nployers
111ake; 1re do not 'W ant tben1 to ndver't~se their profits to . llu v.·orld;
but if th :y would 1nnke a.rrl~tnf.[ern · nt,s \\'f ll ,r bl ·we ."nnld be · ·nabl d to
know bat th y wer~ uot able to _ur e·t the de·:ouujds. uf' tb~ir me~ all
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th st, qu.e~tious c.~n'ltl be arranged witbou ..re· ortin,g to strL:es. T,ha.t
wonltl be true in. mo .t instances, and.,, I believe, in e1:ery i.n ~tance.
By .. lr. GEo:n ,GE:
Q.; ·w hat i ·, the process of arbitration,. as , ·o n .speak of' it! D~senbe
1 e moil-us opera.11di~- ,., I would 1,refer no arbitration ,o f t'hl' kintl ~ tbat
u certain numb ·r of e··11)loscs ,should.01eet an eq 1al nnm heroi em 1lloy(ir,s;
1

tl.1,p':,, ·to select a

· un plr,e , , llose deci:si,o n should b· · fioa l. · he le' . t be men
1n~lke, tbeir (lemand,s~ aud let tbe e,m)lloyers J)roduce their books, and if
it ;1pJ1 _ar _ th·~rt tb,~y caunot aOhr<l tu co·m 1l·i y u·1.th tb.e men',~ de·m ands,
that decision w·UI he made,; ft1J1d mnst be fi D.ilL. llut ·e hold t h1 t we
can not ha f"O arb ·t.r.r, tion ou au~ fair basi ·_ wit bout. ba,io,g organ·zat ion.
oornbi o d with i.t, as · e :i nti' t have some dele,g ated bod au tborizetl to
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aceeJ>t or refuse an~ oft· ·r tbat i,s .,na,1,e ; so,, e.veu for that reason alone,

-OrJia nizat ion i :i:;, a bso lutel ,~ uece~sa1·y . .

I thiuk it hns got to be pr,_ tty gene-ra·u y understood
that the oul. . sat'ctx or }lrot· c.tion of· tbe. · .orkili,gmen iu. these large
8IH)pS, aud manufacturiug ~s,tablishmen.t> is by cowbination,.
'Ibe Wl7NESa. Yes. ,vhere Or"auiza.tiou does, not existr, if an ema
Jllu:.Y r's greed diet t, · .a r, . u.ction ol' wage , h.e wi.U ruak it L:.· piece meal..
H. · . will take one departm. ·nt ~l.'t a timP-, sla:p his ·11a.ocl oo your shonlcler
]Ir~ G .EO'R G.E -

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nnd ·v... a.y · ,: oes 10 }>e.r ,cent.. off" tb.e wages in •'b at d.epartment,. I ~ai\"'ing
tue others to go on tor a tim: undistarbe(l, anil takrng· tb ~m oue bv one
in detail; bu·t ·,vber-e orgaoiz· tion exi:,s ts th~ depa1. tn1-fn't:s a: l ~tan<l or·fall.
tog-e, ber, and. tb.e ,emp'l oyer cann,ot t·1ke tll Ul in d,~,t iu l ,ind ,~(:it the 'm.astery of tbem in that, wa,J~- The nr n ~:n tl1c· di.Her~ut dt""partun~nts of t'he
busine.ss, · ta.n d b ,y and support. one nnoth).r..
1uu .s1.>enking of 1
course,1
of cases of the red notion of wage:s.. 1f ;t nia.u i ~ inco w11 . tell. . or dr u:n k·. n
or negligent so tba,t be doe..~ uot art,-'ll<l to bi work, th ere is no or;g:l'uiza.tion whicl1. desires to protect him; but if n ·1nau is,tliscbarg d just~
uause it i . diSCO'\". ·red that he be ong,s to a lab~r U"o.iou, he itS protected,
,or ·r bi~ wages ar-e cat, d.own witbont any good reaso.n being giv,eu,1he

is J~rotected.

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By the CB'AIRHA . :
_ Q~ And yon 11ro'teet bim by maktug common eanse ,,ith him 1-A .
Yes, sir~
Q~. And bj. . obligiun- tbe -emp1o~yer to d.e ran.g e h ·i s business, ·i fhe abuses
'th,•at 1~an ,._ __ ·.• ·. es.. sir; a work'ing man sin,c:,le a.nd a.lone cannot JJrotoo · l1imsel f; ]1.,e requires tbe uombi ue, l eff'.'o t of all to protect h.hn.. ·w e
ar,;!; aoousecl mnuetin1.es. of taki11 g mijn into, our o-rga.nization ·who are not
_
g ou,l ,, orkm n,, bnt th.ff _ h,, reaHr- a ·m.a tter of eom.pu]sion ·w ith us, be·c:1use if' w.e ditl not ta '" e th.em in, then, i.o ease of' trouble,. the mannfaet-nrer 'W,onl,l take tbeu1 iuto bis ,emJJIOJ~meo t and nse th.em as a club to
knuek Olll" 11 ,~•ds o ,: Therefo·r e we ha.v e to !ak · tl1eiro in to )lUVent,,

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

th~ - ~ lf tlie emplo~ er would rl e abo ve that 01 t of thing and en1plo)
1s'ltHled labor alone, we ,c ouhl ,·ery ,soon ,g t ri.,cl of tbo~e i~Uow ~ w · o are
not good : orkmen,. a-11(] tll ,y vlonhl ha,e to turn tn .on,e of.lier oceu1>a,
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tion.s. for " 7bi th. th .y are he .t 1~ titted; hut as n1att rs. ,. taud no\"' . e
:h a,re to•ta ·e tb . rn iu ,o oar nuion~.
Q. }l(l '1\r 1rnnerou ·, h~ : i cLa k; ..
1u ~au th e. m u that ore obj ·e 1nnw
abl ; and tb,1t- you arl3 ob1i~ed to take ca.r , of iu tbat way - -A~ I presume you ·v.·ill tiud usuaUv about h:ilf U.i dozen in any J.arg . work.s . .
. ..~ 'l \lr.. G E OR·G-E :

Q. , Gi ~ t 1.,e 11eree1 tai1 ,., if l ·OU cau - ·.·. ,,Tf.11, to , "ve yon ·in actual
case, otl of 108 1ntu iu ~1. eonte 't ,bat ,e bnd two y .ic r "'t o,, the~e ,, . re
13 _tha , we bud to gi,e ( lit·t le bonu-" to to keep tuen1 fron1 taking the
reducetl ""' n ge -_ .·~
~
D:y the . -H.A IRM . N:
Q. Supposin,g tl1at so . 1uaH a uum.her hull taken tl1e r du e ,tl "R~·1ges,
1

woultl it lni.v-e ·nabl d the employer -o contiune ]us \\~O' ·l ! ,\[I In n1auy
i.-nstance::; tbo~,e 3

'IOl('Il . ~o rd d. l~a \re

taken in . fh r me·n flUd 'h U1gbt them

a _d '" i "tetl thcn11, aull '.Oo could lull" k.~Jl o:ft• the finnl 'tttl

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nt ,o f

Thl~r•e :al'o Jlortious of the bu ~·iness .hu.t 1·t quire onl~r .a
,eoopl~ 'f " .. ~ks 01. so toge into the 1'".:1·y of doing ,a sort ot' a job l\'bicu
the manufi.1 ctu1·et v.··nI JJnf. 1p , ~
tt b for tbe snk,e ot· t e 'h :;,p~ of achi,e , ing· a,. etoi· ,"., Iu stt<:-1· a (~O,Si".·- tb n1:u1 1ta ·turer "·di aec i)t ,, ork ·t io.n
· hose mien t hat lur~ would 11o·t accept a.tan frtJm hi.s regular workni,eu,
but w nld llf "c. a.rg • tb · , or km n if they 1,roduc ~ il ,u eh :Yo1·k .
·
the q~ . ·s·Uou.,

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BJ 1\lr~ G - OR.GE ·:

.i:

Q. Describe th mod.u . ope an(U

w-bith. the manu.factur r i . a.b,J. .
to waken.. of thiti un kiU, tl htbor·. - -.\.. ,v·~n, the 1nen are no , always
uutikil ,~d ; t bt--y may b • skiHed m~11, · ut not good work m.en :; autl ,so·w times their mo1als are uot eou ~itle,, .· u oodQ . H ,o w do fh ,m.a nufarturi ··~ ~ nK , , tu h m . - l . They go out aud
solie.it thenl to cou e to '\\~,01·k-s,0Ucit then1 h,:'t· button-h.oliug them 011
the eo.1-ner . or in tl1e1r home.. · .u<l oft : r.ing th~n1 a bonus to eou1c to
,Y

wnr·k.
Q. Yo11 mean

urin.g a strike ,of th• reo·ular ""~orkru n 'T -:.\ During

a , trfk.e.
Q. TbeJ do- no t1o ·t ba:t at otb ~r time~ f '.........A., N . ,t a.t ot:he·r tim ~ .
Q. Th.e_:r do 'i ouly in orde,1. ·10 s l})J1ffly· t 11 labor lo •t. b,.. a strike ,.,A .. Ye·s, sir; 'iu ,cn·der tool"' reome · he diiliculti •. tbat "-X.i st in · -arrslng
on b~i n •_ · s, 0 ·9.,~i u g lo $0 ru · d. ifi.er·e,n ~
b fhei r 1n u. l · i,s a cem nion
proeed ure with tl1e t"D. i"ployers u1 d · r ~"'uth eb·cum,_ ta , es and we n1Jproa .•:h th u . u •O H •. nr sit.l e to ·., .p tli iu 1i·,o nl going to w·,ork~

,,·it

By th · ,C BAIR'lfA.N,.

Q. You ar, • 0011.ged, "Von say, to take tho ·e men into )·our union i11
ord r to pr ¥ent tb ·ln f ·uni h n1P- 1se,d 1n the " ·n,· J'OU ha, e described I
- .A . Y . . , srr.. I 11:1ent1011 this lllo'w· be••nu~ .· , ou w·i n b . told b~
r manu
factarers · :roba.bly, dnriuJ: tho course of l1i • inv, 'R.tignt1on, 't h a't th y
are •"!01011~n~-d. by th~ ui trad~ . . ~union.s to em1,J.o y a1Hl tlay· tntu ,v·bo a1e
not conit·)etent \\"'•O rkn1e ·1 , 1i~. mu ·"h as those, who are ~om1•~tent.. 1v,re do
not adu1i tha,t in niu, t~·~ ni , , cas. · out. o.f one huudreil ;- lJe eomnpe't t..nt
man ,g et , a n1neh flN, be i , ·,yort h, u,; u w·hen tb
1 · no llilbcult,y h ·'tween t e 'm.en ,u1d tbe em,pl!oy~r; ..itnll tlu~ 1 lcontpettin'. nJen tlutt tb '.I;
em,ploy · rs ·11 . ak of do not get u l r , no,ngh either. i\ muau , bo \,-,,1·k~
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tor· a mouth antl ·. ho.,, aft ·r having pai( his hiUs and lu1, ing li,.~..1 ~ -on-

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

om·i cally l\"'itb a fam ly of,, .s ay, · -· v~ persons, ha not more tb~in $2'.liO, $3,
or $,5, l ft out ol his I onth's pay is in a pretty ·b ad e.oudition _
·
B,y f·r GEORGE1•
Q. Uan yon give ns, the proportion ,of n1.en ,em,p·1oy. d to wor: :~ by p1tce
work, ·as co1npare,l ,ri ·ll 'thos.1: e:1n1).loy,~d to work for daily oi- '\\", ckty
v.~n gcs · Of eon rs . \l e uuclcrstantl tba.t tbe piece-wor]~ zn, l,u make UJ 01·
or less mon . y, ac~on:ling, to tbe·r ~d,JlL Do fbe. m · n '\¥ho r,ec iv · r,c:rtllar, we~ s ~ the s~ll.'me a1nount dailJ, - Wbnt p,roJlOFtio:n or· 1, ~ t•ce,voi-k men u·oultl be · niplo_\cd iu un iron factory or a cotton factor,, ·o,r
e a · :p l an,l v.;Jua"t~ pr-01lC!_rtio 1 , f nu~n . wo1·king .for ~-·a ges --.L\,., .A'"· to
th.e cotton f1t "tor1~, I couhl no ,· t II~ o I t.he proi•o.1.'t1on. But I wHl t•·tke
for an iUnst1·at1on l~1,y O\\;-u busiue,ss,,a ~e 'IDa irng~ In ,o ur bn . 1ne __ there
is, no , kiUe,tl htbo1' tloue bs t h e tlav; '""'',e r). bit of i't is <lone by the 11i~ · ..
Q~ Is. it -he 1·:nle ·i n manuli1 . tu1.·i n,.-~ -:o.r k ·t hat 'wl11.·1 -1:er the ,,~ork cau
be done b.,- th td c: it i~ done bat ·,, ayf- . btl.it:.\~e il is, to a grt. .•:·t
e t ut.. The cn1i1e-n ters or tbe Jli" t , ~r11 - ~ ak,e rs d.o not wo:rk h)~tb ~ Jl·j~l~
hecan_·e their ,,~ork \"ari s so n1uc'b.; b1 t, \\"her -, ~,_.rtb _, w·,urk: is un ~titrn ,
it is usual to wo1~k l)J tb.e 1,ie~·, ~rntl the 1n~n are iuii,tl ,u:col'dir g to tli ·
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·,\ ork t- er Ilrotluce..
'Q~ 1.~hat •~iodf! of , n11>loy1nent is a,{!; · ~ abl · to the, In bor uni .·n~, r ~ 111,..
pose _. . . . . ,_ I b.tt'\,~e ne\:er hear(l au,~1 ser"ons. obie,ctions to 1.>iec,e w,ork in
our mi.Hs-,. Iba\~·e lu~art _it ollJfC'1.Ctl, to ,st1·~unr.,ns.ly b~~ • be c.1rpenters a1ul
Jlat tern uul 1,..,e,:r . au ,I. Dl1e n who work in '"' ooll, u en u-~e tlte)~ ha,. . · w , na nr·
d~tferent kinds of ""or ·~ to do that tlle~ canuo- . prolitauly ·work. b:y th~
i

piece.
~

Bi the (~H ·. IR'l,I AN' :,
y :ou \vef ·- pror etlin,g before th"~ tl igr~sio · took 1,lac , to speak

of the domestic co1ulitiou of eJ,erks and p rso-ns \lhose ,,~ag,e vn1·:r t'1ou1
tl6 to $25 a we,ek-tbe·ir dwelHu ;rs,! their borne stu·i'Ou ndiug,s,, and tbeir
social eonditiou g n~ ally.. .· on Ulay J>rioceell wit-h votlr &ltat l' eant ull
that sLtbject.-A... . \\'"
a 1nan 1 . eeixiug bu+- $6 a u-:.ek tts a ~let"k usu~
ally ha · so,m , otb r me1nb rs of h.is fauuly en,µ a~ed in -some oc-ca11ation
w·he~eb,- the, cuu as~dhl: hi,rn iu th~ s.n1>po1i:t of the fan1Hr" 'Iht m"tY
.r ent a large hon~e «ind, ,s ublet r.oom . , ·uid in that wny ·. tl.uce; the ren't
of the roo:m - they occu1~Y, nud th l~ muy also ntnk, tt Iii tle n1on y b~~
letting roomis to lo,l,r;r.r~ and wattiu __ · _pun ·bem. Iu tlt ..,t wa,
eu-n
liv-e prett-y ,c omfortably in n!aUJ, cases;, but if th y ·lunl tu rely , l' tt~e her
on the fatber's, \-rag s for sup1•01t,. tb.cy 'V..'Ould. starfl~ or go to the. poor.

en,

1~~-

he:r

,1 100s ·.

Q. 'T he cases wbicb yon. have n11entioned.,, where a nuln has ]efi at the
41•
~
Q ,') ,....0 t'
it!!...
ll...
t u.
I!..
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dQ:pe,n ds u'"hoHy o:r a'lwos,t wb.o·n y ui.>on th e rntre d~'s eil,ruin: sf-A. Yes11

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,Q. Hov.. is it as to ·, a.,m1ilies of fhi . class, of wo:r-k.ing 11e pie bci1-:.· ab e
to secure outside entJ)h~Jmcn ; 't(? a g, •e ater 01 Jess extent, a~,you t,;~1y the·
famihes of the c·J,e rks do!--- 'l,,. I a~f tlnl'1 a n1an ,,. hl1l \\"Orks for - U ;~
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wee·k- ,w'lu), is, able to l ·· :bi:s t'i 01e g;o fo tb,;;it au1onl'it of ruoue,~, JJntl,
gener,ally some other members of his, family ,e mplosed .i n sonu~ wa an(l
co.u tribatiu_g to the g ·ue1·al sra.p:f)Or ~
Q. I !IIDders.tand your stat~ment as. to th . families of clerk.s; but I
a·m. n.aking a .. to 'the otl1er uI1en of , _b om 3 ,n u spok,. some ,·.flue. a..~n,, ,,.. L.o
at, -fbe en<l of' a nuJ1 ·tb :ha,•,e ,so Jittl,e left,!und '\ tbose .ftuo.ilv i.n each casa
:may consist of fi.,. per ous, ; do not the fan1ilie, of tho~e men ,g et enlp,1,oyment, t,oo, as, well a : tho.so of eJerk ·f:........A~ I ·b a\"e kooR~u iustances,
where other memi"beriS of the f:inJ.·1~- \\~ere eu,g aged in the, same bnildiog

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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RELA .'IO"NS BETWEEN LODOB AND OAPIT ,L.

or btudne~u,; bnt I have lrnot n ·~n·iners with ·· f~mn:r of four or five
1;m,::1U children, with nobody but tbemselve ·• to rely 11J)On., to come out
u . the eud of tin,. inon1b not only withot1t an•· money ,saved., but actuallt
in th~·ht-, - e au~e the op ;rator o·wus the .h ou ,s these meu live i and
tlu :store t be) deal ~J t
·Q,. r ha is ju: t su ~h , case :a · I would. Ji ~,e to bat"e Y:!)U. ana1~ze fo1
u~ ,,7 bat ··-.. ;1:r would th _ otb r n1~inbe.rs of the f,uoily of th~t .man
l1a,~ · eHincd duiiD~ th .. , an1t. month - .• I ·~un ,peak ~u · no'\\~ of ca e.s
Tr. ·p1e non ·. but tb · Lead of the fitw1U,, .· e~nns anything :for the support
of fhe famil:r, 1;l1 :~ the fatl1 r olon ~. W·•· 1·1-ing .arul bas, n1<i with a
1ni.~J1n 11 of sumn kind pe1·ha11s wag delast,d in ou1c w···is t"~o day · 1n
tlu~,iltl-.~ t.l1us.1-- tluciug h "s. e~1ruin,gs bJ so 1unc -. to 1bat \lhcn 'tlJ.e ti1ne
·:t'nr n . c'ttlern nt eame l1e "r~ls h d bt and lit ra.U~f ·,vor8e off t-han ·t be
chattc:1 · la,"e who~ t the end · f Uu~ in'.o utb, ~·be ,,·a : no en.titled to any
1nont J , at least did not owe · uythiug.
f} 1."h<-se lahor~rs of ,Yhon1 you SJ•eak,Jt .ou.,gh, reeei~e muc·h larger
}')ay thnu be · _. r-k at $0 a ,t·e~ k · - ~ ,., Y - ,. , ,~i.r _
__
,
,Q:,· Tlu~. Jloint ,o f 013-- it qnir \· was ,,·hy tb ·· fiunily of that laborer should:
be ,,,hoHy tl 11end ut upon hhi li\"nges for a H.velibood wh11 - t·11 _· fc1iwily· of
t 11 I· rk ~hou Id 11 ot b · ~ ·bol 1, ,!,e1,endP-u t u 110n tbe .. a n-e.S1 of ·the,ta:tb e.r,
the. •1 ).rk hhn!Sclf Io _receiiri1'1g ru.ore tban half o.r o,o, -fou~b as ·m, .c h
1,a:.~.1s ·· he ]al•orer -..-""\" \VeU, tl1a. _is a~ k1ug . hy sboul.d not t e father
lua v,e bad bi~ <·-hild1 (n 1n both i.n·sta.uee·
The cu·A m .t.:. , quality :in that resp·ec.- ma:~· he, a,s sumed wh.en we
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ESS. , ·nt
h, ·ve b ·en ~ J)eallriog of intli·vidual:s who llave
con1 · uod r n•1y •O\TU obstn·,Tation. Yon asked me for · .p eifio cases aa.

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f:t _. as I ~ou].~ give. theu1,, autl I , ·1v ~ pec.Ui.c ,uas -,R. Jf I · e.r e to gener:~1lize,, I shouhl broaden na~- 8tateu1ent conside.n ibly·..

(~ \Vell,, ·we "ff"isb ,o get. a gen~ral Yiew of these men and their Pitual"
tiou i.n masses Of t!Our 8 there ar · c- ,~ ;pt-ions anil ·a , e, . o.f bards.h ip
in all ~I~ sses. I have . know'· lawyers' farnilies. to be ery hungry, an.d
l have kDO\VD tbe fiim1hc . of la o ,lng m o to live •in very g'rea.t oom•ort; but those ca~es nrt f cer, 10 s to th gen -ra.I rule~ _ luit ·we de
sir~ in tb~.s investi gntion is to ,ge't at the a i t1rage condi ·ion, ituation,
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relations, of the working cl ..1l-s . s . - · '\ , . 11, in t-b .absenc of a na..
tionnl 1bureau of' 1a. or 1ijta.ti~tics it is impo -.sible to l{i\•'· , on t . xacs
condition ot~ th · difli rent cln s s. I ha ¥C b · en 1pea'king bc~e of isoiat.ed
instau~e·s thnt."" Tnow·of, "~b r · 1naus· in .n... ith tamili·.- s · re gi·,;in "·tbe1r
~r\·~ ees for 86, t,7, •t k, or $.19 a w~ek,. fUHI lt ·i s a eommouly under tood
f~u ·, that t.b - e ar .m~n~ clt"'r k ,] , ho b ,~e famHies.depeudeut upon them
'Bl ore or le~s.,Jin some eases inuch 1nore th, ·u in otl ,e r,~, wlJo ha·. e, tu ·w,o rt.
for· less tluu1 $ 0 a. w~ek.
(·~. I · !n11pose, then, i,t many in .tances 'the cbildr n,I where the father
i$ engti(red in iron .. ,ro1.k ,o r ,o thfr m . chanicaJ 1n1r u ts., clo al. o a•s:, is.t i
in·(~e l'in g a J1,,.i •~ g for he fa n1i lr T'----A.~ Ju some inst r1nces they- do.
_(~. As a rul :·,, i, t-here nn_1·eason . ,hy the ian1il·~ ·o f a. cle.1 k should 'be
abl ,to aiil,111 it own su1),1 ,01twl1iletbe flimHyof an JXtn-wo·r ker _h.o nld ooC
do th ,. -. ame tbin f! · .i- A~ I l> •liev·e that a a :1ule in the iron,• ork there
.ui ,· rnore ch~ldren nss·ist.i.HJ their p ,a rieuts. t ·au outside, fo~ t~e reason
tha the e are more Gern1.ans .and other fo reiguers e·rnployed there, who
take tl1.eir ·· hilureu to ifo1·k v.!f itb th iu u1or,e than . ~ieaus do •.
,Q. Ii" tbat is. so,..and tbe v. aa~s., of ·be iron-l,~orker are .so much bigber·
than the wages of the clerk, what i th · reason. th·· t as a rrde tlle.ftHniliM
.,,- the iron ~t"Orkers nr,e not better· 01,p.ort.ed. tha.u t'hose of' the clerks,t. . . . .
A. -·.s a rnl.e they a:re.
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

K.E .L ATIUXS BET'\ V.E EN LABOR AND CAPITA.L,.

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,Q. T.h en are uot 'tbose emplo:red in t'be iron indu~try better off, on
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,:r.our own s:tate~eut,, than · b · n1en ;p..i_1,gaged. ~s clerks in 1nt-rt. an·t_He 1n1r-11
,s uits ,_ • Wen, I W0 b_Jd ·1n S," ie.r t bat q ue, 't lOH S_e~, and Uo.. l n rner;;.1
cantile pursuits th em.11J.0;ym nt is steadi.er; t.be e is little or no 't hn . . loRt. : ·
Ju ~1 mmer the '" ron wor ;.er loses a great dt·al of thne which i · u?q.nil·ed ~ 1.
fur re·tla.irs to, fhe ma .. ,hine.r r·; tbeu tb r-c an: brenk~i~e · .1·n t'he 111 ill~ con ..
sta~tly occurrin'1Y l,y ,v~icl~. a ,·:-reat deal of tilne i~. lost... AH t ~e 1e tl,ings
.ma Ju~ 'the ca:~e such t l1 a't t b - \'"era ge, laborer ·" ~d I ca rn ou .n n a ~er·i.go • .
on1,~ about $300 a Jtiar,. although b e r e i,~ ·.: nominaUy -.9 c "~ .ck"' The
clc1~I. . tloe-"'" not ·1 0 ·et "it.h tl1i .·, dehtJ, or loss of tim,e
ulting front break"'
a.g,t--s or any o,tber ·. n,eh ca.u~·es
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B.r llr. G -o ' -GE.:
Qi When ou peak of' . 11 .· e.on< ition nf' tb.e iron-wln~kers · ·e1n:. etlier,.
as =-t generaI'ruJe,, tbnu tlJie condition of the cle-r'l'-s, yc;,u ,si>cak, a I undemta ntl sout of .kH led i rou-1' o:tl"~H~ uot of hi borers . . . . . A. l\ heu I ,s ay
iron -TI:- ork.e rs,. I ·1n . .~ n ~k.iU:ecl l·iborers in th.at Hn · .
Q ~ ,vbe · , er lOU u·.e th · t .r1n iron,-,workers, ,~ou inean skilled la.b or
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al,l·ays t- A. Al w ·ty· -

By the OnA1n:1,1A •·. :
Q. Do you meaH that the ~kiHetl Jabor r rec ires on the av•· rage
ahofft 8300 · y . a.r·f-A~ •· o,, sir; I mean that stat · m1eut to n1,,1,I.r to the
·"' h1 borer}''
·
Q. \1' ba -~is th> ·1Ye1~1ge com1len ntion ., ~ . boul:d you th.i nk, ,o f the iron.~,r~n·ker,'- A. It. ,,.·o uld be i11. about tbe &:'lme 1n-011ortjo11, That is, if a
labortr recei'\·td ,$,!J, av.reek when be worked.a full w· ek,., and at tbe e,u.d\ of flte .3ea.r :b ad · · arncd abou·t $300, the deficit w.ou·1t1 b·e iu a'bout tba
s,.11n 1n~oportion of the wages of a man ,g etting $,15, a wee-k, when be,
\•roiks a full \\ ·~ ~k..
By l\f r .. GEOR, :E ::
Q.. nnd ·. rs:ta ·d .you to :snJ t'h,a t the loss,of ti me r,esultin.g from break...
aae,s, repa1 · •, .&c., falls upon tbe oper.n tiv•e ! - ·... Yes, slr; he cannot
· ··or·k during s.ncb :periods,. nnd tile time i,s lo,s ·- to lrim;I
Q~ Ai~e there any holidays.aHowetl :i n tbo e ,em11loyments., e - ct&p ., Snnday.s t-A+ Tb ,:v u llow no J1 olillays w·bateYer. No ti e t lta't is Jost is
.J)aid for. T'be tuen are.paid a per diem rate for ·,c r,·i.ces,re,ud ··red"', witb ..
ou·t any aUow.an,c e hnt,ever for hol·doy~ . If am ·u takes ad.as o~ o.r
:a half day,, or any other J>roportion. of the day,, so much t.ime is lost to
hrm,.
·
Q. Y·ou a.re an a :«mak . rt-A-. Yes, sir.
Qi A.nll y,ou li¥e i.n Pittsburgh !-A~ In Pittsburah .
·Q , Bow Ion~ hn:r,e you 1.i.Y. d tbere -A.. T\ e_
ntJ-uin y ar~.
Q. \Vbat is )"our nge ·: · Tbi rt-y .ft Ye J .,.ars.
Q. Bow J'o ng h.U\ 'C 3~ou been iu- 1be
bdsioess!-A. Off' an.d OD·
.since m3~s: ·re· teent.b year, l ha,e not beeu t"'nga1,iar:etl constantl~•r a;t tha,t
wo1 k during the whole pe1tiod, howev,e r. I ha,~e eugag,e.d ill other busi1

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ness..
Q~ y ·o u br.tl"' . · spoken o:f the oontlition of tbe labori.n.g·,e1a ·.es an,d their
moJe,s of' lift~. I s.up,1>0Ne you kt10'W' sometblng n.boiit, the ,couditiou a:od
IJiode of lite of tl1c ren11>lo~yi.ug cl.as . · · :- A. Only .ns cau s,ee it e·x ter~ ,~
n· l l ly·. I have ne,..er mingled with. tbem to an,~great e,x teHt.
: ·
Q. State the external O})llearaoces which .. ou-·bave obser\-. Ll in con~
nootion with tlr ,i rmodeof )ite~..........A- vrell,. S'(>eaking J;{lADeJ·aU~-., t:lu.\r '\1··0,u),d,
indicate to me, ~, .a c-nperfi.cin] observer, the }lOsse~sion of' consi,d e'fable ,
ttf the goods of' th iH li i"e.
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

28

RELATIO~S HE·T \\1 EES LA'BOR ASi'D CAPITA.L.

u

Uinp:s n1:ul out itl.c HJ>p,e..a:ra.nce geuer<lu,~. so
i1rr -a.. 1·h1 - 1Hl re ~_.on1e 11udt. r yon1· obsei·,-ation" ·. on see them l" .. t-r,day I ~u I~11 •~ t_~ ~ ·'Y, . · ; I ·et; fhei r \\1 int,e r res.i.tl nee , but , ry rart."l:r
tb . ir su1n1uer 1·esi1l .~·ut ~es for a i:reat in· ny of theui. a.s11 ··re · o ba,l' two
·r ·e side1 ct.~L: , ouc Jt r " ~i11 t t r u u t.l ,011 .· i,ctt· .. u l l u1~ r.
_
Q.. ·, ,.t ·U! dt ·scrH 1c. thEYtu :1.:i t lut,.. a ·e '~O f.·:1r u.s yon ha ,e. seen tJ1en1 ..-A~ ! 1•·1 i~·li . dc~ci·ibc in · · ;!' .. 1u.1 rnJ \'\ ~, . · sou1t of tho .· . tll~1t al' a1-ou1ul tht .
city of 1!ittg\n1r~.rh.. ·( ln i.:j1 on -Hu1 · h. rs H·, r 1n rnnu y ins. au eR--tl1en~ u1 ,·i~b .,·a t'c·"~ excei)tiou ·. "l1ttl . · thci1;:-.~-: i1ii",iifio11.• ,tlo not fi.n<l v,e nt in t'l1 ("r iii~
1 ~ctiou. hu.t, as ·t, ~l"lU~l'";ll tl.tiug, t 1.u~y Ii,.
in ,~er~t r..,} wa.·.1 .1 palati··,l 1 "·· ·id1nee~,. t hPy ba, e c··n-ri,,~·p,; . ant I ·h ,rs is . au ·1 'ti 1e ,gronntJ~,. and er, an ,.
arul .veryt '· ing t11at a. pe1~0.n " -< nhl :·uplH)s · woultl go to mt ·~e bfe ujoyable. 1 k uo,~ a Ul"l l ·w.ho r \rt • in t but co1u.li 'tiou n O\V " . ho w ii 8
wnr . boo - e cl : r ~ at l1'i.tts.ln1r:gb at t ht on tln~e-·tk o-f the rebt~n ·on.. Hr now
owns t.br - irou-miH. ; I tbiuk ht_., o,\ ns thr e , ~d.rt.-, 01··k · ior 1na king·
ba.rbetl wire; nncl lie cont rol~ •o.r o,,··ns 1uoJSt of' the ·~ ock in. one of oa.1
rail o~u1 ·. in th(•· c jt:r.. I kuu,v I bat to h ·t- t~o~itil • '.f~.t,(~1"..
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da t hi au ,t • \'. ·t-•I) ~OUi i . (!"l ' ~( ' 1S lt 1 1()f, .. - .~ -~ ~ (:· '."' SU ·, . e IH t.uo
01 ~ly uuu l HCJi\\. u·ltbi IL u,.~- 1·ct:0Ut~cti.ou \\ ho, h ls . lH'. nng u1) to t ll is cotu l i ·
tion by 1.~·1~on of being .· n _ ~u1J toy _.r; ru (1 o:f ioui:·~ the t i1nes \;r~l"t! pro·
pi" IOU . fi)I' tlu1 so,r t of tUl\r UlCt!'l1l u.t. . I know il.1101 hem man u·bo iu I "O:!
Wtl~, 1~ orkin~ fo,i- $3 a d·1.:\" n •· n. ~l,v-1naker-.a.. mau w·ho i · 1 o . l"'l ' co~11izell au1on.g bis felio,Y-linf•D .~enrran)~ as posse~·~iDg ai1-r ~.uperior ab1U :•y~
who 1; "' ~tlw • p.1rt o\vn I n1 ·1:11 rt, l ;trg .·. ,e. t:ablh;,.hrueut ·.., who liY in a
,--err ·tint~re.snlli.nce n nd b~ s e,~l rv'tl iu •l" i bout bun to 1na.ke lite • ou1fort~
-·tble. aud c j .. .:,~ hh:". On tlu:~ o,tl.te1· baud., ,· may t,;.tat~ t Itat I ha, e kno,¥n
som,e of' his, en1 lllo, to h.·1 , . t · {1· n'ned nic.~ co1n fort 1.b] u1ode·~t. horn es of
fi,·t . or~ix l"OOl'lM, tntl to b··~y,. 1,,•1it:l f :u.--tlu.u1 a .d nlt');o , ducat d their chi.1-dre ,velt.

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Q. , -ldcb t .o you belie\-e i:, tlte haJ.l J.>ie1 1u·1n, th -~·nltllO·y e or ·t h
mnste-'"""-Whic- ,g · ts tbc mo8t ou of this lifi ·~- \ . I can.not f!:ive any
po iti\~6 iu1OIW'. . tioll on that J.>Oint, 11int l ca:u. ,s t· tc wy b ~ru.r~ lf J weto
t,o judg · by t.h4j action •·f the ·e n1e·n I wonld •COUsuJ.. ·r th.c1t f'he in.au
- th.at hud 11c H10· - won y \f·.·1. tho llJ<.a.l)JHer, fru1u t.li~ ·•\ta:,: t~n y ,_r1~ab at i
.;, _ :iu.d th .. ··-01· lhl 1 ~•,nt; th<.,t 11~1 to gic t it
T'ltt~ ()11 ,AIRJl'AN~ r11 .· 011 ..stion befor:. ns is, .iu ·wh:tt Vfll•Y can ~. man
f!-0,ui · to be ha:pJ:tie,st- i.n thi. ' ,,. ,·1·hl, not u •ce·~sari,ly ricbt: ·t ; bnt. 1Ja1lI~in ss
is a o:t"th~ of i:uiutl \\~hft·h d ·-~11(ltuls., of eouu~e, tu a cou ·i'tlt1"ubl _, e.xteut,
u11ou tlr ·. bodi.J~v e uu·1i iiL1 111
,.. h
IT~l'.! · · '" , ,~. ~ U,
urir4,, l t s:ns on tlJa.t 1u,int- tbir the n au is hall ..
piest. ·,rl.10 i.:uc~; ro l1,i!t18c~f !f~l~ al[ tl1at · It~ tlic ·1r~,s,, '" ho is ·udetH:~;ndeo't or
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ll.v ll .1·... U E : ·
Q. l1'o Ute n11ill-o\, ni ~J-s gi\ 'C t I ir pt-r~o11:tl a ·it11rfion to the wor-.. in
tbe-h· ~. ~h1hli.·lu. · nt~ or is it ~.t ·cudr t · o h,.r .·n1te1-i-nteu.dents. ~tud agentg f
- \. mh - 1n·n(~t h~ -~ is ,·ari~ us n ... to 'tl~u t. 1 ake a rui,u ·w·l1:0 has been a
loug tinl .. i~I t l1t• 'b1 ~i·11• s~., ti~ ll \f 110 i~ nbl 't~) =sn l~- riutt' JU1 IJiS bu ·. ln.ess, h
wUl be the u1·u,~:g,.. 1· hirns,"Clf •.n ,l ,rnl lutv · a, :snpel'1nt n(·1 nt tr 1,der .- im"
~ In ru•:1 1.r ir~tauc,_1-.. tli:b nuu1u~(~1· t nt)ctinte Hl th -~bnsin~s d.aU.~-cau~rtot t : I yon jns · lh I J ►rt 1}01 ·uoi of l\·01·k~ ti ~rt •u_r.. 1ui1Jrlt! l iu 'tlutt ·,,:.-ly·.,.
but e~u~h of t ht:: lnJ!" ~-- work . ha;-, _. su t~ttliutr 11dew ; ns
tlte 111e1n be.r
of the· Hrrn \'\ ho hn: ha l tht1 .h u '_""( ~t . XJH,"r.w.UC iu t )1 1Jn8i ie s vriU b41
the 11u1 n-l,t1·-th~ u1(111 ,,. lu1s,e "Tord i~ nr •1 UJ>f~n anJ· ~ul~j, ret.
Q~ Il'O l Itu in;; 11 •l .. ~r~. go i u to the ,~1 1'. io 1::; shop~ au t.l i I us i:•t! ct the opera,..,
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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] ·. as em.ploJ~~d i H I· IS t t IHi! lfUUUt g air dj,tl tl1 .•f.. H (. lf~S Oil f of f I~ e em..
11l0Jer , 9nd. l1l1i u ~t.·11,t '"1i·otn:ul. rt Ju.hu·l} e,,.. r.) da~· l''lnle he "-a.s 111 tl1e
cit,,~~ \Vl, ~I] e \ rr I 1, I,1~ iueist-t ~ I.ifl uot ca 11 lt1i IH el :se,,,·bere }1 e 1\-a ~ ll :t o I utl ti 1,e
woi•1~is, su11l~1intl.1 n~Uu~ luu(ness a, niuch as he '!tossibly ~ou.ltl
Q J)o rhe ]ahort· •ij iu l">'ittsh 1 ·g'h own 1beh· d.,,·enin;.f~ .~ -tju~ .1.·;1 ly 01
tlo J.u~:r 1·e11 . tuen • ~-.A~ I u so1n· hu~tant .1.s t Lu:"y ovtn t bPrn ; bn.t thP'l'''t,
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fe-Wco1n11•a)·;ti"iYt. ly \tho OW~I t ·mc~i o,\"'u hon, ~s j t 'h ert~ ell'(_~ Lonie,
bowe,-- ~r~ Ho"~ 1· 1e:, have olltai1i~tl t:I_• 11 .tnlt~~ ·t o nwn their 1101~ .."es. I
linow· uot.. 1 do not think I .know in a sh1g] ins,tance ho,,· th moue;y
·,\:as }ltocu red... . .
.
_
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....
,QE T·11.e :s. :·t1·1e(1 1abore1.i, ,, bowe,·e r, gehera.lly ow.ll t l1eJ·r 1l·\veU1ug,~~ d.o
1he~. not -A. N.o ,s ir; :n o , as. a rnl, \ They are gene1·nHy reutei■ ex .
ce1,~t ,•,li ere t b,e. ,,·or k :.,. a:re o iL1 t, :i n a vil la.g e ,,. here propert.y is cbea1> and
, ·her, tb.e chances tor owni.ug bow .·. are mu.ch better than in a cit.)· Hke
l itt ·bnrgh or Pbilaclelplda, or an,.. o:f the lar(J' ·.· ·Cities where re·1 l •s'la'.· e
i YeJ·:'+ valua bl,tl;.
Q~ Ba,. .e you eousid.ered t · e qne'~~·i o, ,enough. to• be .a ble t,o, sav
1l.]u t'her 1t i.s 'better for au. em11Ioye to be employed in ,it large city or h1
a yillage .~A., I cooside1 that ni:,ou tbe whole i · i· · ettr·r to h1t,Te tbe.
u·o1 Ii :. outside. of a Jarg-e city,, because. the mPn ha-\~~.better air and bett ·r chances fo1.~ ga rdeus to rai :e · egeta.b 1e ,. aud. u. _uaUy 10 th'is f!oµ.ntry
,our ~cb.ociI privil · ges are sue·h 't hat el1ildre:n do, not .lu1Ye UJ· g,o a Yer~r
101 · g d,ista1100 tu ~,chool even in the smal-er p~ace . lu a. 1,lac~ near w - ere
. ~n·ge iton ,.,orl;;:s- are ,s ituated sclJ<uJls us1rdl~:' Rpring up quite rapJd.l y,
() .. ~peaki11J o~ the dwell"ugs trhieb tbe~e Jabor,,.rs,, skUletl and. uu':·'ki.Ded, 1~ent iu tbe C'ities, gi,·e u·.· 180111.e idea as to wheth r they are
:,.;,t ·1•.aru _e and indep : ude11t 1011,, es~ ,c.,l ~in1ply ,l'OOUJS, ·iu Jiirge lrdlding~.--...\ . Jn Pitt burglt, 1or example~ on tbe south ··id{I,. ,,.ber, onr· m1~ll a'r e
11 1n.u~
rou , :rou wil1 ftnc:t 1·ow aft,e r 1o,,, of hon.,-s tl nt ·ire siugle. ten~~
rnents, each oom1)use(1 uf tbr,ee·1oom . ~ and a ba~eolif:\ it. kite-hen. Again,
tb{~r· · ,a rc other· buih.l.iugs,. lar,g e ·tt"U(~ures in '"bi.ch .roorr1, ure rented
bnt fhose hous ~, a .., ct geue,ral. t11ing, ar . ·, ~t.l~~t close to th . work, , I
kuow of 011 . · inst.au~ ,,~here I tailed u )OD n iidoud at bis bonse in. the
8 llUl l 1,e1. ti!!],e w·bcn the door~ \rPre OJ)eu, ~u<l we had. to talk v ry loud
to he l1eard. on aetount of th nui ·.,. of tll1e mi.Us. Iu such. a ·i1_nation ati
tbn · siekneij':,iu tb ·· fiam.Hy ·i s t . nibl . ~
Q, Do"~urar ar,e tbo e l1ou . to each o,ther!-A. They are in one
cuutiJ1uou.s Un .. al join · cl t,o,gethei.r, jns · n J arti.tion separa.ti1·1g f . m
.. Q. Th n th ·:'t. a.1· . --imply on J.on.g house di .·1de1l bv ·1~art.itious i- A,
Xes., . ir; ditidetl into a.part1n,:.nts .; but eae,b has un iudependen.t ent1au ·e of it,•, o,ru .
.-. :r the . ·HAJ.lllIAN :
Q. Tl1ey are ~iin1,,1, . ,locks. like .,·.it,y· residences, on'l y not, of tbe, same
<J u\]iity f-A.. Y · :·,,. it·. Here and there there n1ay. be an alley. . wa.y bet,veen the house ,, but there are no : man~r -ucbibrea TK,., Tbis. I ·seriJi .ion
is t1·ne of a1I tba t 1r1:1t of t·he •c ity down . ,bout our· plaeei .It i . more,
d~usely popu1ate,d -ou the flat th.an 1 p on the ldll1

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By· lf'r.

GEORiGE :

Q Bow are . e bonses in the othe·r parts of tbe t!it5 t-.A~ Tltere
they run i.n blocks ;, the hou~,e s, are Ja.r«er·, a.ud. in inan.,y i:u.stan:oos eaeh
hou . e ha,s, an all yRw1l.J b;r ·w hir~] you can take yon:r coal, or"au. t'bi'n,g
else that. Yon wish, a1~uHd to the ~'l•ek. In the 01oredenselypopul ted
:::e.antl e
that ha to be carried out mu . t go

~;l.!::ht::e

eeytl1in"

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

R'E -

'.r,10~ S, BET'Y lEE -_ LABOR

--ND CAPrrAL .

Q . W]iat ·, ~au ,. to kno,v h; '\ 'fbefher in -tbe oth,e r parts o'f th•e, city
oue. f11m ily occn1d,es a hon e from ceUrn· to garr ·t,.or w:het'her the famU'"es
liv·e in ilpurtme ut~ , -f. \ ..eral famUie: , in ,o,ne buihJing -A.. · am.. s.peak.·i hg
no D of JoC"n lit itt·.s u·he1·e one. fa mUy oc!cU. pies t be w bo·1e house.
Q, In all nst ancP·,R!----...\.1 No I can nam;e Jou other 1>ortion· . of our
c·i f ~i l\~uei·e th~re ·"' iH be fi,,e or six f~t:01.Uit_. s in oue hou~, some in the
e,e llar,. some ou the r .- t, .~e,cond.,. thhd .. and fourth floors.- .as high up as
tbe bou:s · goes."
Q~ ,v1iat is ~-our ohse1·•1-Rf on R~· to th:e eti'ect o.f' iron l\rorking on the
b~alth of the ·1)e.1·. · on·s eng;l~··~tl iu it •t - -\i It u~ua'lly l•--'aves them wit.h.
- leg,n ·\f ot r lu.:tun :rt i~ n1. ll.s to t IJ cir , H.~n ta1 t~1cul ties, I do not, 'k uo
that tb~y n.ro ··1.fti~l!ted uufii,~or;tbly b) the busi11e~s a.tan.
Q., I atH s,:i1t aking of the 11b,3tt~ienl coudi.tion. of fhe men.-A . w .e,U,
th t y rn n lty In at:,;:, an fl 'f b n it is uec(>s . u1·y to coo1off bet,wee.n the h at~,,
a·i ul the cou~eqn e·1lce i - tlla _ tl1t;y are sul~•e ct to 1·henn1uths,m.
Q .• ,,that d.o l,·ou 1n,an hy 1·1uu1ht~.,· by b •at8 ~-A.. TheJ' nH. ·t heir fur
nace - fn'll of hon ore uud re1lnoo i,t to ·i ron b-r beat. a11d w·b en that i&
don · the·i fill it ag'riu, and so <tn , nnd. ·,-.; 'hen the furn~,oo ·is re:fiUed,
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the 1uen ltul\r . llH op{)tn tuuir~? to .sbl'l) hi.I, ~- res. ~·· ud, to cool oft·..
·Q ll.01~- ~ s tho •1 i 1uo~pllH~·; e o •· those \\~o ·ks ;, i.s there.. not du t n,,in,g
all Uu; tirn - - · \ ., ·O yt~.. ; tbe1.e Lllii du:~t flliug con~tan tly, bnt I ne, er
k.-u:?w nn,, ju~jnry to :r t ~ult, fron fhiJ · . The buiil din"s are, usuaHy open
plaet.s \\" it h lar~c \\~id · l oors tbr t i~ott ·· 111tl di ire a team thron:;fi~
l11e,·~a.ll:C uot closetl ui., fo ·t he sake ·Ot · t"at, yollll kno,,.,-.. That iiS uot
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Q4 IIo,v ·i .. L, as to snm.n1 -r ·. ork ?-i\. Tbe ruins are usna1ly 1s hut
do,,~n 'tl~roueb ,J u·l y,, tli the inteu:se)J-- hot ,r .- atber" Bllt1it 1s avers oon1.·1non thing to pick u1, a 1u11,er ,u ,d - to rea.tl of fi'("'e or ,six m.· n b., ,. 1ug
· l~e-1 · o,~..,.ircome. b,., tl1.•~ J1 _~~1 :t 1n a sin~le da3r.. Many .. f he. men work
·oaJa.~d to the u·a·hs t on ace .1u1 t of ue bea ·•
Q.. '\'\ hat ·s tlu~len~·t h of lHe n1uong ·iron-work ers,, as a rnle.t-•· . I
1>rcsn1ne tl11~v a \~erage as '\\ ell as in ot b~r a,. ocatious. I nie t a great
ui au y ,o hl 1ne n v.<ho b ~.,Ye s,p u t t lte mn f~jor· port io us or t beir Ii ves in i.1·00,,~or k i:n,g·, and, with t b ,t.,xccption of 1·heuol:atisn1., and some injury to
the t. , ~e:'igh.t bs J.nokiu r: iuto the lu~ at,, they anej a.pt to be a W•e ll 1u-e~
serv,f:!d as other rnt~n or tlu 1 age.
Q . J:s. tbt 1-e any danger nf ll •· r~o al i11~ary from molten. iron ,or a.nv·..
thin tr o'f fba t s.:,or ·f A~ Y ,:-;1 sir :; i.l •· re i -d au g, r.. 1Some port ious of
the ,voJ"k arc 1nor-c th nge1•,o ns rban o '11(-l'l'" ·•.• Tbe n1an who takes tl1e baH of
·t1,o t i1,o n on tl1e Uttl ca.r, ti- '·'sc1ne z.e·rs.''' as tt is ca.H d, a 1nachine ,vhich
rolls tlle iron into a h 'bh, 1m" to he tittetl for flu~ .roUer,.is. liable to i:n
jn 1·y, a11d I l11i,t ,.·o li.uov. n ,.•, gre~it ·n,au:,,· nis.tancr s ,v beI"o accidents. IJil-\•·e
-oceurr tl., 1':h e b·1r that tlu•·v aro 1~r.e~~.111g ".t iu is liable to lr "caught
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a. id ·to hu1·l t .hi.ngK aro1 nd

J)fie·

1·3 ,,~ic'kedl.v. A grea.t manJ· aecid.ents

oceur,, too,, f1~0:rn tbo ueg]igen c,e oi· , ngineer s-i.ucom petent engineer s.

·wbo are ,e1upluJetl bee~ us .·. they ca.n be ldre4 cbea.pJy.
1

They often

b1o \ f u 11 the .- n U:r.e \\~01· lus a ud ma i u.1 anti. 'k HI a grett·t ·m any peop]e•.
1

T11ere is Ho ]·1\t', you kno"' .,. c.ompeHiug · : - tationa.r y ugineer to get out
a Hcense, and in inany i ustu uce . meu are II ir,e(l tbr tba( busin.e.ss wit:& ..
0ll1 .a~certr iuiu ;g t h~ir· ~1 bihty t 10 tn l e charge of an. e.n gin or machine ry.
A ·m an ·mn th~t- liue is UO! nqnireu to be li:ten1ed like a •, tt-amboa t or a
ste:am1~hip, engineer, and maoy a man ·"~ho bas. served :in the works
awbi:le \ fi'~J hire a . an en£!.ineer,, and by hb; ne;gligeuce or ignorance
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·w ill blow up thing~.. a]thoug b. snch accid -uui uan geuenH y -be1·p :r event,ctl1 We find tba·t skiHed eogi.ueers 1Seldom. ,o r ne·ve:r have any s0:c·11
tl'OUble.

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Q.. To go back to, the h.ouses,. yon b,a-.;e de ·crib. d tbe1,1 as bein,g· in
ver:.v clooe Jnxta_p o -.ition aud. v FY uear th . wo1ksjj ,vb~lt gron uda
hav,e tht-) arnund tb m, l\~ba.t, tf iadc, wba g1·a,s,s,, wh·1t op1•ortnuit1,es
for · l1 c. chi ltlr,e n of t b.e ram ily. to ba-1,- e on t door .JJ"eere.a ti ou t~A.. 1:f t IH_.i·r e
'is an~ _
grass on tlt , , out b 8idc of :P ittsbur.id1 a ttacbed t,o a, tt uc 1ucnt
hou. -, :· tis 'i.n a Ir .t. o box s.itth1g on the 1\~indov.r-sUt I do uot kuou of
any ,e xisting o-n the ,~arth. Tb ... . \\·onld have to tal"c uit u: lu i,!k ·t o
10w t l.te -~ra~s, if they ha.d auy. I ·k now 11.,unh<: rg o,f l11011se ~, --1-t-r,e t bo
back ya1,l. of eO(!h .i s uot 1nol' · 'thffu 8 feet b.r 10, anti th~l.t is allo,viu.g
m.ore ter1·1t O.r\~ than nun.l,~of the Iaud .on l . ti o.
,Q,i ,vbu·t o_]l portnuf i,ti,S ha,.. th~ cb·:o l<lren nnder t, n or t\,--~1 ·\T •
'r s
of a gt',, w l1 o are too .:. mall to work. in t he factori~ s, for on t -tIoor rec l\!:tti.on ..· \\ ba·t play--grounds ha·\~e they - i- ,A .. The~~ hcl'\ c to play ribht oo
the, street.
Q. 'lltey are street cbildren !-A. They are con1·1 Ued to 11I 1y on the
etre -f s.. They h.a \·•e no ot h~ r tJ la ~e,. For ou t~d oo r exerch~e t 1 •~ 't' ·t k e.
the paYc1nen 1n 'the middle of the street. , , hat httle bull~Jt ·t~\:i 1g
the:;· in lul~e in i:s, dooe ,o n the s'tr ,e t .· at · he ri.sk of br-eakiu:11 wu1do~~s
and being stopped summal'ily by· ·t be police..
Q.. Tbt y are e ·~posed to ,l~iu ger,. too,, from, ca.r1 ia_get;,, wa,~ ons, and
il '.... ,JOUrm.l
-'
.
I ac U~ l_~ U1t S.
d-,.ra.l S-, I Sl1ppo -·. ·-,- 1l· Y
1· tr,,
au d. t. Itere are OCC,I
u~u.uHy, though, tbe rtfe L<SlUJ'f~rs are on the look-out for aus bin~ of
t'ha t k ~ nd. and oon tri \·-e t.o n l'"Oi d :i t.
.
. t 'h.e s t ree .-_ '" s common ..- A. . '· ·, es, sir
" . th
. . no 1> ~1 ace
Q I ·1411' n1~,
n1
. _ere 1s
e]~e to ]')la:~tll ,,7 1.J ru tb "'Y go to ,s chool they ba,.,.. e a lar:b:e yan1 t ·_, play
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in clu1iug tbe rn<:,e ·s;..
_ ~ -~-ha t oppo:r tnnit1es have me1 · \\~ho li.v.e n1 the·se teneme·n t. bou~c·s
and t'b ei r f:._tn.d.i es for ·r ecreat i.ou on Sund~ ~ s an<l boliJ nls .. '\ \ ~ lh1 t 1· . ..
,s ort8 ha:\\:--e they f \\ l1t::m•,e do tbe, _
g,o to -, Do tbey ~tay ju their llouse~,
or tlo tbel~,g o on ·i n o the conntrs,, or n1to the 1►a1:k 1-...'.\. If tb ·~v f' 1ke
'tile atrc . t ca.rs ~111<1 go, o th Hrnit.s of the. cit ".--our Jine:s g~ ne-ral ly 'r nu
to tb . _.uburhs,- tll:ey cau go out iHto i:be conutr:y,.,
Q,, ·,vaut to kuuw ·w1J~l't they u.suaUy d.o .-'- A~ W,_ .H, Ut-i-u.nJJy t b y
a-re ti red and t.he y ~rt =i~•f a ·t ltom,
T.hey 01.a)~ ·,Ta I Ir a rou u I l ~-on1et ~ .1n · s on
Su.uda.y to, ·· · e. a fri nd, or theJ may go to ,clrur ·h,, bnt, if thPJ don;t t.lo
th.a t hev ~ta~r at lJ on] · u nd rest•~ The p n b he Hbrrn:i a re clost:d on
Sunday, and ,our Jloor n1,en caanot ge1 iu •-o th ·m to :react or S' ·u.,ml J,'t1 1\nrl
our shop-keeper~, "V\?110 baye prett) Jllt'tures or ]l9inting ~- in their Um]Um
dow·s, usuall,r hang- so:m,e tliin.'J' o:~er t he1n in obs,e r,..·.anee of the Sa.llha: b,
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so t11at a inan en,-·agetl a ,f'ork all tlirougb the ,r . kin t·he min do ;~8.
n,o:t. g t a cb.;iuce fnr u.uy· • oter :.ainmeu't ot'' that k .h ut If our lib1·ru.,. .,
were opeu on tl1e Sabbath so that the workingn1en could go i·11 nud
read, it would be b tt-e r for tll1e 1nor,1l of the co1n1nun~ty; there. is no
doubt about tha~ Herc in ,vasbiogton I bad the pleasure last Suudn,y
o:f' look·i ng, at, som,r, pretty ))ictnr,es ln wiutlows, tb.at v.Te-r e Hot eo,Tered
over, but wit · us t be ~-b.o-w~ " 'iD<lows ar~ ns'f1a l Jy· cov,·re1l on S:u:otlays
,an ll tbe l i.brar1es, are locketl n11.
Q~ What ar,e the cfll·ct ,u11011 tbe 1.>-rsonal habit of the men employed
·in coal mines a,s to cleanlineMs or t'be contrary! Describe their ha.bits and
condition in ·t hat rnspec·t a , well a. · you er n. ~ Ai A far as t,be pecul:ar
dus,t of the min,,~~oa'I dng,t-'is,eoneerned it is as tllitk as .~'t ean. be llJlon
the pe·r1son and not fall oft~, The little, lamp,s that th .· ineu ·w·e ar u·p on
'their eaJ)S.to- g1., e Ji•uit alw ,ys leak mor, · or l .'SS, 11n<l keep t'bem..smean. . d
with oil,, aHd the oil and the dust together do ,e.erta-iul_y com.biue to Dl.''1 ke
a miuer present a fenrfnl P'i cture so far as, blackness is.co-ncer.ned1 The
men are ,oom.pelled, to bathe ever~r day on returniug from tll-e ir wurk;

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

32

RELATJ,Q NS BE'r :VEEN LAB-OR AND C'A PIT L·~

it is-a.b :olute1y ne.e saryi · n some 1:nines. they ,vork where tbe ,ei.n is.
·7 or 8 or '9 fe 1.t tl1 i·· k, a1ul tll ••· wo1·lr 'h ere 1 · comparativ .ly ,c om-·
forta:ble ·; bu · wh re it is only 3} o ,4 feet t'lli 1~ it i . ver:r unoomfort~ hie~ Th nth ya~ cou tnn lJ·-in dau.~ cr _
; ne,~er ot t of ,d nn,~ er; they
do uo :· knuv.,. at \"lui t t nHe a J? itiifl ~ of " borse fla,g " ·m ay fall and cru b
t ht"-l'D to d,~•l t b t it ih.H ~ ·v.rhen 'it- i ~ leas -e~· 1)ect d;; 1f" it ,,~t' r
x peet,e d,
J•ti: para'tious could be .1nad · to l \:oi-tl t l1e. dan~ -r 1n 1n~.n1,~ ht tan.c . , but
tlurt c~llU not. bt·. doue.. -~fh -~ uliu '"I" ~.oe · to ,lro:rk i.n the· 1uorn ing j ,~ as
th :i ~uu is, ton1i u1,.: nJ.~nJ)o·,~·e the horiz,o u, and he eonH.-is out of tbe. 1n'ine
)a

:

i I the ,cve11 i ur,~j n~,t as .it. 1s .t:oi ig tlo,vn,. 80 tlur - his Hfe 1s, i>retty neax'ly
· ,. 1I. uigbt.. 'Iln, , ,~ork ix v<~r_\ .ba1·t1. ,11ul cxlun:u~ting.. The· men liaYe no
i ,tt \~auta~·("~ of~•·. ct -ty, or '" r Uttleii Coal ·m ines are.not si.tn:ated in busy
4:t nt,e r.. ~ tb<~,~ ure out i n ·j ·ulat d 1~t. ees.
The op·. ra: or d.oe~ not, live in.
, the .mill ·t of tlie 111ines in 11inety-niue cases o,t t ofone hund' - d. Tbe m-en
1 1 nii I gle only " ~i b t beh· fel 1o,\s. ._
·. i u t I · .~r O 'W R ·1ittle, , .. i.JJa,ges. a 11 d comm.unii ties., .In th~~ nine~ tbe.v ·ma.v work ·two tog·e ther. Tb;:it is p.-rut't:,.,. nearly
j
the extent- of the minet's ~oc~nl hal1it, . In ,viuter it, is uigb . to him all
: ti e tinie~ ·~ rorn the shorteni11g of 'l he dnrs tot.h e lengthoniug of ·, hem
.ht'- ~eldom see~I be sun; it, is ·11,g ht a.II the t ·~me, a-nd tl1e only -co _
p any
h(ii , a.sis fl1a t he o ,b . r miners.e11gagetl with bhn in h.:s n·ork. The h.omes
@f tbese n1eu are 1sncb a1· '" e tleseri.betl to you le·"terd &), though t-b.ey
'\;\,· ill be n1,o r , n.dlv aud bett , .r ,tl@s •ribed by llr~ a·i rd be-.. ,, ,vh.o It ,e s
.a muon g t he1n ancl ba .-, fu 11 per-~ou'" l kuo · led_,tre.of the.m.. Th .·. miner, un·1i ke otl1e,r met11ani. •:s, · ·xce11t mr11eaters and patt··1n-ma.kers, i:- required.
to fnrnish his owu ools,. and b 1y hi _, own ,oi , pO'wder, :and lamps~
1

Br the CH1 :RMA ~ ·:
Q . Ari yon sy, ak.ing 1110w of' coal miners\, or of t'b m and ·iro-n m1in rs
.ifl ~o t-A~ I ~nn p u klng of fbe coal miners I do uo·t knoi1w any·t hiuy:
1i bout the irou 1n'i11 r 8-. .A 1 103 i,enia -~ks, apply to the miners of coat
l,y }Ir. •'ORGE:
<l. Thos . thiugs that .· O' 1 sa _. t miner bas. to sup,p l:v are usual1y
bought : . SU Ill)O' ' ., i:ll. the o~e;~ ot t be ~·,n1)l03"'e rs,, _ ·. ,., ~.~es, s . r·; i D t,he,
store of the , operator,.?' 3L'I tl the m n bav · to P' y,, i~. som,e 'instan6Cs~
1nor,e th an O p "r , -nt. ldglter ·1)ri,~ es han tb , y would. have to p~y for
ll'ie ,-arne artic:I, s nt oth~r stores; ·b ut theJ are no-t permitted to d l in.
otl1,e·r stow~;, tlley a •e eou111eUed to d .:al with the men for whom. tb:e,y
,vork o-uder -tb, · penalt•,Y of being ,d ischarged,, The dea'lin.g· ·is co,mpu),I

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sory.
Bs th ~ Cu Am IA'N :
Q.. J)oes tb a,-i' requir _1nen t exte·nd 11:ot m -rely to, tbie tools of ooonpa..
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tion wbich th mnin~r ueetls,, but ol .o to the ueoo=sRa.ries of ifi , , A Ye ...,,
H~.r-., Au 011erator hal. ing a st,ore cx:pect's his ,opera'ti'\'."es ,'o deal with him1,
auLl i ~ 'tbe1 clo uo deal ,,~ith biu1 he d -s uot ·\ vant tbe1n ~.n hi empt~~:
: 'T ba.-t 1s thr- rea ~ou thu1 a nn111 wi H often n~-01~k tor _whole n1ontli a-n t1
· bn,:~e but, ti.Ji, . y.. \VO cents co.aning, to brm. at t.he end.,
Dv l\lr.. GEORG-,,:
Q... , b a ,e ;1 n id e· ~-·. ha . the. Ii fe of·the t'AJA l min r is v ry disag.1·ee:able.
Now, wh:r do inen go into tbat but:i,h1,ess ;. Is it because of the hi,g h
., a_g es 11rull, or wll _t i~, be reason -A. \\· e1l, som,e person has 'to (11g
our coal, antl the ouly way to ge·t it u·. is to, go down into 't he bowels of'
the earth after 'i 't.
Q. Tlten is i.-t t e e .cep,tion.a1.ly bi git wa.,ges t bat i ntl oee mefl1to engaF,
i.n the business '! -A. o; me · .1re. born to it;. their filthers wo,r ked iu
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ihe min.es, wicl tb.e y began life in that wa-- and neve'r did anything else:; ! \ .~
·\
they ·i nberited it, as yuu m&iJ say,.
By the 0.HA-IK?t[AN :
,Q.. Reall_y, tbe,n, they are. ,a'n utterly helpless class, so far as. they are
themselves ·cooce-m ed; th.~y must remain, in their present 'positi.on.DD·
Jess. otbers lift them ont t- A.., I do n.o t Im.o w,ho,w you ca'll lift them out,
of.the dirt of the, bosiness\■ I d.o 'DOt• 'k now hOW' coal can be _
g ot out
cleanly.
By Mr. GE.o BGE:
Q.. I ·h ad the idea t'h at, men we.re seduced into that ,sort of employ•
ment by ex.traor-dlnarUy remon,erative ·w·- ges 1--A. Th,e avera,g e min,e r's
earnings~. a.s I think_ will _be _shown to_7ou, do not ~mon_n t to m.ore
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tban 1350 :a year.. That~ is ·the sed.-o.o tiv,e. compemaation given to ·-1i,e,
miner for spend'ing the .g reater' portion of his life :i n 11tter darko ess.
Ju Pe-n nsylvania the mioers1and o,tber ,citizens had a l\aw·,e nacted at the,
last session of our ge·n eral assembly pro,h ibiting "these truck stor,ee of
wbtc'h I have boon apeak1ng-'-'·plook~me" stores., as the operativ·es call
them·; they a.re known uui,,.ersa~, by_th.at nam,e in the m.h iing regionsW•e ha,d a law passed, I say, to prohibit suc,h. stmes,1bnt, 0 1
u r able co.n,..
1stitotional lawyers, I 'believe, fouud h,o les, in it, aud I he instituti.oBB con•
tinne·. We want a htw maki,n g it a ·m·isdemea,n.o r· for, an operator to ~
to his men th.at if they du not. deal in bis store h.e will ,discharge them.;,
·w e wan · such. a law passed,, with a penalty behind it, so that s man
violating the law can u· prosecuted and p·11t in prison-a law which.will
pr,. ven.t the operator fro1n ,c ompelling· his w,o.rk·meo to accede. to his de.
,m.ancls or •e1se lose tlum work and s:tarve to deatht
'Q. .A re opportuniti,es furnished by th.e operators 'to other pemons to
bnild ,s tores at the mines in, eompetiti.o n w·i th their ow.n 1-A. I never
kne~ of' anytbing of· tllat kin.d bein,g attempted, for the si-uiple reason
that_i( they w,e ~ built the operativ·e s could not d,ea] with them; t·bey
'W 011ld be eom,pelled to deal ,a t, 'th,e "'plo.ck.. me'' store or else to quit the
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Q.. Is that ·w •11 u.u dentood t-A~ 'T.b at is well U'D,d,erstood.,
B ,y the OH.A IRIIAN:
Q. BWJ y·our or_
ganization established co-operati\'",e sto,res, in any of ,
those plooes!'- A. Yes,, sir.. At• Shawn~, Ohio-, we have · -. fin.e large
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store.,
Q. Qne of the objects of ,yo•n r ,onJ.er, as I understand, is
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to enable th.e

~perati.v•e to, protect 'hhoself by patroniziu. • a. store of hia owo.or beloug-

in:?' to the ,o rder f-A. Yes, sir,1
By . Ir.. GEOR:G.E ,:
Q" How is, t'he ,c apital fornished for ,a co-operati.·ve store '! -A. By the
m . n. They booom.e equal sha.reho.lde·r s, in ttie bwdoe - s ..
. Q.. ]flow -is the store manag'e d; do tb. ·y ,employ· · storekeeperT-A.

Tes, 81r.

Q·. Is h~e genemlly from their ,class or from some ,o"tber 1-A · . 'au&ny
from thei'r o,wn ,cllass.
Q"' Does,he reooi ve a salairy t-A. Yes,. sir.
By the 0 ·0:AIRMAN :
Q, The effec:t of these ,,·plo,e:k .me'' stores is, I anppose, to largely de~~ th~ actual rate of wages received b,y tbe men, ')>:y reason of the
h1 o,,ber 11r100.s that t bey are e.ompell.ed to pay 'fur everytbin,g ·t .be3"' buy,,_
3 C-(3 LA,W )
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RELATIONS BET\VEEN LABOR AND, CAPITAL-

iit i.~ abs oh1t,el;r nl~c~~~ary. In ~001c 1nint1;s tb.e y vror w·b ere, t-h e vein is,
; or 8 or O J·t't•1 1:hict~, and the ,-ro1·l- tbe,re is co1n1n1rnt1,,el~-- com-·
1'orta bh?' •, \Jn t whl"rc it is on Iy 3~ or 4 fe ,., thick it i · v.er~r iin eomfort~ 1h lc. ThPn tlu~-v ,~u~e con~tautl.~, i.u d.aHg: r; ne,·rr out, of d.· ingr~ ·• 'hey
ti•, not; '111.non rt t ,runt t in1,t:. a 1,ip • .~ of · · I.tor~ , J·l ag ..: tna., fn{ll and ,ern8h.
t luinl to d.ri1tl , itt fn n~ ,,·11en i · is I. a .-. ex:·1l · ctetl. It" it , ·f1:-e exi>ect:id,,
J~rp1~nrnt ·011,:s, ·"'(,n l,(l bt~· 1r1n•Je to a \Toid tllt da1·1_-!el~ in n1 ~1n.v in ·. t1uteis, bu.~
t h~.r t canu) l1P 4.h~u,ti,. ''f.b .~'1u·i ut r got. to ,,·ork i I tho 1aoru1 u,g just .as,
t hL ~lll.1 h~ cun1 h.1;.:- :u p above fb~ lu~·rizou, Rm d lu: contt· .. out, of the 1nine
+. It t'he f'Y,t-~11i1~~ ~··11.st j!1s it is. ,frOitl,g · ,lo\\"1', , so tl~a1- 'l1is l ~f:.. 'i -'" Jl,.r et v nearly
al l 11.i ,j' ht. 'f !1,t : ,., ( Jl'k i~ 'l -(•i-, I I u1·,1 a 11 ( I e.xbu us't i .n ◄·r.. The u1t:11 11 axe uo
adva11t,.·1gt· of soc:iet~ . or , ,ei--y lit.tl~... Coal n1infs arc not, ~·taated in busy
· ,_ .i.itltel's~ th(y nre onl in is l1atetl Jt.la!(,es~ 'T h· - 011• ·rator does no Ii\. · in
tl1 .- 1nitlst of' tile n1in · s .i n 11,i111~t)·-11i1H ens.es ont of om ·e·hundretl . , Tbe men
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1uin~le on·i r ,~r.i tb tlu.ir fello\\~.,. in theh: owH Ht-tlo. ,~u1a,g s ,nHl commu.nit ie ~.. In t 11 P ,n ine:s th• JJ.:.•· ma.v ·\l~tn· 1~
o ·: nge111 er. Tu u.t i ~ ]l tP t t: )" u~•-r ly
the · ·x . eut of the u1i1H: r''-~, socinl Ila I ih;;. l11 ,v1·1, t .-1· it Ls 11~ h to hi, aH
the t "rue., 1~·ron1 th · shortt?uin,g of the dclY ' to the leugtb •_;u.in.g of tb ·m
ll··· ..i.blorn ,ijee.. t b · ~nn; it i .', iuiiJ1 . n U ·.he ti m~,,, a-ntl the only co1npaoy
11.,(M ha .. i~. t hut, tl.u~ otbc1 1.nhiers e1 ·gag d with hi1n h1l his, ,\~or· . . The bom,e&
ot t ,e,se.1neu. are Knell a.s u. e d,e ~cribetl to Jon i ·s t · n:l .r, thongh tbe.v
,,·:i.11 be nio,i•e, f1dl~ a ud h . t-ter describetl by- 1Jr. Bairo liere, ,vho lives
·t 1nong tl1t. .1n urul bn>'. ildl p rsoual k.uo,vled.g e of them., The m.i ner, un;,
Hk. ot hf.I me Clut n ~ c~ e rel. ll't ·1tr() ut, _ and pat te "11-mak,e.rs is l'eq u·ired
to turni h his o1"·u tool , a1ul buy lds own on,, }Jowder, anti lamps,
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Q .. Aro yon Rp~n1~1n,g now of coal nli.ners,, or uf th 'm and iron min~ E
QJ~o ·f -,A.• I ·11n gJH.~:!1 . . iu~ of fh.c ,coal 1uiu ,rgf, I do not kuo,v auythiu,g
a.botrt tht, ito u iui ·.r~, AU 1uy renun ks arpl_y to th@ 1nine~s of coal..
] ls' :\If.. G -..OR G·; - :
(J: . Tiu - tl1ings thn , y -011 Sil~' tb · n1ine1~ l1a·· to nppl~v nre usu.ally
hongbt, I , 111.110 •·.. ·, i'n the tore,~, of the cn11>lo>- Ii :' f,.........At ·. :-.- ·.· , sir ,; iu t- te
:,,tore ot· t'b ·• opel'i!ttor,'' nnd .h - :n P.11 ha,~ · to pay,. :i n on1e instances~
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than. -0 Jlt!l~ c· ·nt., hig-h r prie~.' tl1an they would b, veto pay 'for
· lu~ Niune arti., ilt..,s ,T . otbt r ~tol',e.s. ;· but t ,e y a · no ·p ernt Jed to dei I in
,t ~t b er ston ~ ; t li@:\T ·1 m eorn 1,el I d to t lea ,v ~th tb.e in ·•n for w bom tbcy
·w ork under tl1 11eualty of b .-tog dischar~.e d. The de.:"l.Hng is com.1n1I~
1 florc

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so: y.,

By the CHAIR11IA~:

Q,, l)oes that ·ref] u :r · nH':"n 't

ex r•el ul u ot merely to _he tools of occn pation wl1i .·•h t:h-~1ui11er:need~t bH't nl _oto the 11ece~~a1ie.8 ,of'lite · '- A,. Ye,_· ,
ti,i r. A11 oiterato ha,. inga ,i jtore <-XIH_
•cts his 01n!ratirea to deal ·w itll him,
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and ~:f the, . . do uot de~,l vrith l1i1n he does not ,,::in·t tbe1n ·i n .h i employ.
Th~t.t is tht1, r n ~on thut t un1u win often ,rork for a ,.,~hole niouth aHc'
baxe, b I thir ,r~t-".. o c ~,u t1 uon1ing· to bi.n:1 a, the -e nd.,

Bv· ·11r. G ORG,JA :
Q+ I l1rl"'re nn idea that, the Iife of the r..oal :m,iuer i,s very, ,dfsag1 eea-ble"'
:So,v.., why llo 1neu go in o that busine · '- Is i.-t be "U:u · of ·1rbe big 1
~ ages :pait ·., or w ha . 1~ th .· r,ea.~o·i • .t\1 \Veil, some pe.rson ha: , to dig
onr coal . , .iid the only way to .g "t it ou·t is to go down into tb.e bowel2S of
tb · ea _;-b. afiter it'
Q., Then. is it the exoeptiouallr higl1 wa,ges that induce m,eu to engage
1n the ·b usi:ne.ss ! --A-.. No ; 1n -u ai· born to it ; t 11 i r fn tben, "rvor··., ed in
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RELATIONS BETWEEN LABOR A.ND CAPIT~
A.L

sa

tbe ,mines, an.d :th.e y began life 'in.that w.a.y au.d never ,d id a;nytbiag else;
th .-Y inherited. it , as,. on ma,y say.
By· th.e OHAIRMAN:
Qil Beall .· ,, then, they are an utterly belples elass 10 far as they are
thr• mse1v,es~,oonce·r ned; they mus - remain in 'their presen·t position DD·
les others. Ji.ft them oat I- . · I do not 'know bow·you can lift. them out
.o f tile ,d irt of the business. .I d,o not know ·h ow ooal e.an be g·o t on·t
cleanly.
By Mr:. GEORGE:
Q I bad the idea tha,t m.e n 'Were sed.aeed _into, that sort of employ..
ment by •e xtrao~i~.ariJy _~mnnerative wages t- •A. The average mioer',1.
earni11gs, as l tb1nk will be shown to you, do, not amount to :more
th···· n i350 ·. ye.ar. That is the seductive compe.nsation giv n to ·t he
miner for spending ·t he greater portion of his. life in u Jt\r' darkness.
In Pennsylvania the miners. and. other citizens b.ad a .,a enacted. at the
la. t ses: ion. •Of' our general a· se·m·bly ·p rohi.b,i tiug these triuok 1S tore& o:f
which have been a.p ea'king-'·',pluck•me" stor-es, as the. operatives call
tbem; _t.he:r are known ·oniversall,y·bf :_hat n,~ me in.t,h e ·m ining reg1ona,e ha.d a la,w· passed., I say, to tlrohibit su:ch ·•,tores,, but ou·r a-ble ,con·..
stitu'tional lawye·rs, I belie e,,found .h oles iu. it, aod the inst.itotions con•
tinne. w ·e .·atl't a la makm.g it a misdemeanor i.or an o,11erator to say
to his m.e n. th.at if they do not tleaJ. io his store he will ,disohargie them;
· ,. e w:a.nt such a law pass .·d,. with ,a pena1ty· behind. it, so ·t hat a man.
violating·the law ca.n b pro~eent.ed and. pU'& ·i n pnson.- a JJ · w•which will
prevent th,e. 01,erator fNnn eompelliu.g bis workmen. to accede to his demands or· ,e lse lose . 'h eir work aud 1
starve to 1death.
·Q.. .A re opportnuitie fo:mb;hed by the opera,t ors to other persons to
buil,d rs.tor-es a· the .mines. in. eompe·t itio:n ith their own!-~ 1 ne·ver
kn .· ·w of anything· of that. kind being att~mpital,, for the si·mple rea_aon
that 1f they· we.re_·b uilt the operatlv·e s could not deal wit:b ·t hem; they
woold be eompelJ,e d to d.ea'l at the ''pluc·t-me" st0ire o·r else to quit t'he,
ft1la.0&
- Q. Is that well uuderstood.'! -A,. Tha·t :is well understood~
By t'he C·__ AI ·
·. :
ii
Q. Has, your o.r ganization established co-operati~e stores in any of
those Jllaces -A. -'es,, ,z;ir1 At ,S haw ee, Ohio. we hav,e a fioe large
.s tor ·,
\
Q. One of tbe obj cts of your order., as. I un4 ·.rstand,. is to enable tbe,
~P rative to 1>.rotect him ·elf by 11atronizing a store of his own or belong..
111g to the· order t-A!i ,..es, ir.
By 'Ir.. G ·o GE:
Q. How is, the c p1tal for·n·is,hed for a co-operative sto.re .- ..•. By· the
m.eu. They become. equal sbareholders in the bu · iuess.
. .. Q How i.s t'be tore .m anaged; do thev employ· ~ storekee)) rT~A.,
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Ie ·., sir.

Q. Is h,J!, g.•·.oerall . from ·t beir class o:r fro·m eom,e, othe·r ,._ ··. . sual]y·
frow1their own elas- ~
Q . , Does be receive a salar.: t-A Ye~, ,s ir..
By tbe OHA.lR - . ... ,- :
Q. T~@ e:tiec ~f these ''pluck.me" 1tores is, I so.1,.,pose, to largely de·
erea · the .actua·1 rai.te of wages received by the men, by reason ,o f the
hi· her 11rice th. t theJ · re compelled to ~y fo,r evecyt'h1·ng· ·hey buy·t3 C-(5 L W)
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8,4

REL · TIONS. B,E TWEEN LA.BOB A.Nb, C'APl'TAL.
1

A. Yes, sir. I know a ·m_ine,r who told me that when ilo·q r, ·w aa se]llng
foT l,'2 a, s~k in the cit.y be was paying at on.e of t,llese atores., 8 miles
from the city, $2'. 50 a, sack ..
Q Ho,w many pounds are .i n a sack,,_ ,~ F'ift,y .
Q. Tba;t was, a difference of 25 per ,c ent ·1 A~ Ye·s , si •
_Q,. The. trft!JS.portation that distance ,eonld acareely amonn.t to any~,
thin,g !-A. No, sir; tbe cost of it :m ns,t ha·v e, been very sligl:i't .
_
Q,. I snppo .·e that tbe ·~ ,eats a,n~ provisions ,o f ,aU ·kinds,. the clotb.ing
and the materiaJ.. for c1otbi1lg, and. all the neces ari.es of life are sobject
to the same rule,!-A.. Yes1,
~,.
Q. Do the operators furnish ,e veryt.bing 1-A. ·y ·es,., ,s ir; everytbing
~ that, the miners may 'DeecJ, their g:roeeries,, boots a.nd shoes, calicoes,,and
~ ev·e:rytbing of that ki.nd. The.,, pluck-me". st,ore, is a general st-0re.
i Q:1 I sup,p ose there may be a~~ . •, 011 for tbe existenceof "opera·to,r ·s."
st.ores.at ,. 'M il places,, owing t9 ·t·be isolation of t·be sitoatio,n generally,,_
A. The want would 'b e supplied. by outside parties if t,h ey could, haiv,e a
ehance, to build stores in enm.petitio with lh.e "pl,n ek•-me." s,tores.
Q~ T'hat would, undoubtedly be the ca.se in many instances,;, but ·w·h ere,
a ·n ew min,e ls ,o penetl it would be impossible to, proceed with. the, wor'k
unless, necessar,·es w·ere fornisb.ed by the, sa·me ,capital that emplo3:,ed
t'be m,en,. wooJd. it not t-A~ I ne.v er 'k new ,of a ,c ase of the o,p ening of a ,
mine for coal operation ·w bere no provi,si.o n was made, 'b y th,e operator.·
fo,r .a store..
Q. I say tb:ere mn:st. be a necessity t-ha.t he, shoald provide means of
snpplyin,g h·i s ·help ·with tbe necessar·~ s of life,, at least a·t tbe begin..
n~g, until otber e ·tablishments _could grow up, because tha·t would
t,ake time, and mean hile a m,e. 0 . has to eat two or three times a day.•A. Bo,t it· does ·n ot follow ,t ·h at the operator mus,t n.ecesaa.ril,y keep tbe
stor-e. Tb.e o.p emtor k.no~ thait he has a 'bi.g· percen~ge of pTO'D.'t O·i f
his me · b:y maki g the, deal in his, store, and he builds t·h e store .as
soon as he build .· his workL
Q. Bni is, it not uecessa~y 't hat he ahonld do that f-A.. No; he, need
n,o t do 1t. 0th :r peopl · would ,g ladly do it ·i f tbey had, an opportunity,
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or the men wonld do it tbemselv·es.

Q1 Do yon th.ink that.acapitalis't wouJ.d set o~'t to ,o pen a mi·n e at a p·I ~
remote fro,m a vUlage,,, or a·ny ,meroanfr~le ea,tnblisbment, without ,a t the
same •im.,e. making ,•.ome p,rovis1on to k~p his laborers supplied w'i.th
tbe m.eans of li·v ing t-A.. ,O ther kinds of works do. Y'ou seldom find a
grooer:y at'tacbed to, other works" Sometimes y,o,n dot b,o t not as a rt11P.·.
Q. The.n yon think there is. no reason. why the cap,italist opening a
m1 :e should. mak · provision for the sustenance of his laboren u til t-he

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oo·m muni y s'bon1d. have bad an opportuni·t y tu, deYelop so, as, 't o induce
the ,e stablishment of otber stores. -A. I tlilok tbe,re is no good reason
w·h y the operator , houl,d start a ,tor.e. Wben tbey begin to open a
mine it is done slowly, and tbe men employed can ·nso.ally find boarding_-Jiouse .· io tb.e nei.g hborhood . .
Q..
tb1at nso,ally the case!- .. Y'ee, · <i.r; I should say so. There
m no ·place so isolated that .rou eannot, .find a boardin.g•-,bou&e wi,l hio
reasonable reaeb ,o f the
n, and, if you cannot do that, you can. put
np · shanty and Ii·v e in it..
Q. ·r t:hat is, so,, what reason is there why tbs laborer sboul.d I,e ave
wherever be m,ay·be and ,go to this iso:l ated spot W'here there a·.r-e alread.y
other stores, and s, bmit to an emp]o .ment a eondition of which is to be
''' plucked" of' hi -. wng . at these ''plnok-me"' storest-A,. The fact is.
almost universal that there i.s 110 c.boice. :B ut even i.f a, necessity d.i.d
exi . tat th@ begin.uing that fhe operator shonld put up a s,to.re,. non.e of
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35.

RELATI0NB BETW'E EN .L ABOR AND ,CAPITAL~.
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those. reasons e · .i st now in any loeali.ties of wbieh I am speakin~ The
necessity has passed long ago ~.
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. _
Q. That ma,y be. I .was •c alhog J'Of!-r .aittel:'tion., bo·we.ver, to.t~.e rea,,..
sons 'W hich may have led.to·the est.ablish~e·n t of these stores on.g1naU.y"
Bu.t, .ad.mittiog that to be the ~so-~ of_thmr origin, it ..i , of· ~urse., uo
exe,use for tbe practice. o-f ·. •. tortion 1n tha·t .-A... Oertiunly not..
Q.; ·v on ·would bani.ly d.eny to men. w·.bo a.re to invest ~heir capital in
a n,ew loeali~y, w.h.ere ·t bere is, !10 ~omm.o uity e~tablb1;"hed, the ]lJri vileg,e
or ftu.oishio ... · the means of l1.v.el1hood to the laborers ·whom. t.hey em
ploy·t-A. It is im,m aterial to tb.e m!ner wh~m. he buys from!. so long:
as he does it of his own a,ooord and 11 treated as O·t hers not m1uers are,
an.d •allowed to boy at tbe same lltiees,.
Q. What p ··r cent. do you think those ,stores, as .a role charge. ·more
thaa t'be surroan.d ing stores not, eon·n ected with the ope.ratoris or capitalists t-A.. Of m,y own know·led.ge., and from w·h at I have. been told,
I should sa.·.·. ·t bat the ,excess ·w· s, a,bou.t 10 per cent.. on an ave-r age,, all
·round.
Q!! How do tbe. goods. they fior.oisli oompare,, as, to, quality, wi:th those
sold ,e]sewhere ! A. Tb,e quality. is. very seldom equal to t 'h at o'f ,goods, v
of low•e r prices elsewhere..
Q.. I jiudge., from tb,e ·, vay yoo s~k, that there is a mark.e d difference t-A. Tbere is a ma·r k,e d ditference~
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Q. Yon apo:ke.,y,este\r diy ,of' tbe system. em·pl0;yed. a.t Roohdale,, Eng-

land, in eonnect10 · .·~th the plans of your eo operative establis.bmeots :
as the testimo y w,.h i ll y,o u. are ,g ivin\g is to be mad generally, please
e .·p lain that ,~.Y "tem. ,so that the people of the count;ry can understand
i't.--- ·· ·.si,d e from.the other features of a purely 00-0,pera'live &,t ore, as,,g en.
erally un.derstood by th,e.public at large, the, ,s tom on_tbe Rochdale.p~
gives its pa· rons,le,;en those who are not mem'b ers of·the society, ,a divid,e nd upon their purchases during each quarter. There,is a i,1nd set
aside for th·_t purpose-. l'f, for example, I had a store, au.d you were
t-o d.e al with me, although you ·were not a member ,of the ,socie.ty, you.
would get a :fair proportion of the earnings of the a.to.re-not so ~uch
aa if )"o_o.. w:ere a stoold!ol<!er, .bu~ stil~ a fair Jll'OPOrtioo-you would ~
~ealt w.1th J_llltly., ao,d fair d1Stribut1on . .ooJd be m ·d.e after the divui-1on among th.e stookbold,e rs .
_ ,Q. There .· ost be. some rate ,o f ·p,rofi.t ·fixed npon in. a store .o f th.at
~ ; n · hat
-l e- ·rat
A it· varies
- .. 10.
•· ,d, Ikereo
. -... t, 1DS1.1a1BOOS~
.. ,.A,
A.tJ.1.u
. . · . 1·s. th
r • · '✓- I
Q., What is ta.e profit d,esigoed to cover-the rnnning e.xpensee, ,aod
interest on •Cap"tal, of ,c oorse--i s there anything else 1-A. ~JI roonihg
~-.. peoses~ Tbe id.e a is to g,e-t your goods as cheap .as possible ao.d to
handle them, and, after p_:yiog tbe n-eetssary ex.pe11Be8 of that, the1
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'ftj!

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profits, are ,d i'vid,ed.,

Q. There is a JPtoVision also for a.,d ividend to the stockholder. Is
the:re any to c.ov.er tbe. in.t,er,est on his money in·vest~d I What am the
~oal dividends '-A. I hav,e know·n di'ridends as high as 5 per cent. to
be pa-id to non . stoekbo1ders, on th.e ir purchases.
Q .. What ha · e ·b een th · dividen-ds of the stook'bolden 1-A. Tile
- olde~''
·vt'"dend' b,ga b' neo a- u 'IIt ..l~ eD'b6 and
-- t
B·tockh
. ,•~·. ·-·~
..:, ·. ;-_ .;,g 1· .di
. ;_ ~
r:.~ 1-1 rr
ii ,l'M>f
~=~ een:
Q., There h9:s not be ... n any 'Very _
great· d.ili.er-ence, th.eu, be·tween the
dividends 'to the toekbolders and those to, tb.e, non -stookholder& 1-A.
N·o t a, very great diflerenee.
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B3· Mr.. 'G EORGE:

,Qa The istock.bol.ders get ,heirs as interest on. tbeir·.m.o·n,e y I-~; Yea,
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, ir.

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86

RELATIONS BBT-WJ~EN LABO,R, AN ., CAPITAL.

By· the CBAIRIU:N:

'Q.. And. tb,e dividend to oU'tsi.de patrons i-s subject to the dividen.d u,,

1 d1
"' so.'b-~,ect
"'
,.,
the ,stockh
~ -·. _, ·. o,.
ers . - A
· - ·Oh
. :. • , ye . ; 1"'t, 1s
to• th
:- ,e. s t oc,kb
· o,1..1.....
u..;rs'di
--,. .T_I-

dend.

Q The stookh,o1der is usually

,a.

p ··tr-on of the, stor,e as, well, I ,s up -

pose t-A. I ne, er kue.w of an ~nstanoo wh.e~e - e went elsewhere to

de , 1.

.

Q. H,e. dra.wi& his dividend as a stoo,kholder,? does he. a.lso dmw hb1
di1 idencl _ a, J>at,ron 1-A., I d,o no't know ·whe't-ber they do that or :no,t .
I have nev,e r been JD't im.ately connected ·. •.·.t h these st-Ore& ·T here ia
noue in our commnni.t y,, altb.ougb, we ,purpose starting two a:t,,o~ce as
soun as ·t he spri.n g ope·n Q. Are the,re;L any other featu~es in,connection with the Rochdale system that you, tbin.k the 'p ublic woald be interested 10 t-A. _ ha,v e
stated. th.e only feature of difference between tbe Rochdale system and
the ordi'nary plan, of OO•oper.atiou.
Q. Wha· 1s the oroin .-r y ·p1an or oanal method. o:f p-rooeeding in eo..
1

,operat-i•on ,~Ali u ·pon t'he ordi11ary plan all the profit.a .are divi.ded

among the. ,stockholders"' lu place of •Co-operation ii becomes .a corporation. In the Iroehdale system ·t h ·y assist those,who are oot m.emben
b 1.t wbo-.g l.ve th ir trade to th,e s,t.ore. In tb.e o-t her ca.se the busiu.e ss

merely reso,ll'·es itse·ir into a corpor,ation . _
·
'Q . An ,o rdio :,r y association for trade; t-A~, Yes, sir; it :a.moo'Dts to
tha

~

,QI! Have you had. occasion to observe the etfect. ot ·t be introdue ..

tion of i:mprov,e d machinery· upob labor 'I -A. Machinery baa lessened

th : demand for labor in, 11u1n-- in ·tauoes,, bot i"t has n,ot lessened the

hours, of labo·r at all; while th,e ability to produce wo,r k haa,been t.rebled
anti. in many eases mnc.h m,ore than trebled
Q,. This matter of machinery· 1s one of the great disturbing elements
i tbe ind.ustrial qoe _tion, and w,e sboold ·oo pleas~ to hea:r your views
~n r ,g ard to it. Are yon, as an or,der, fa, orable to further d~y:eJ.o pment
in that direetio, .1-A. Yes,. sir,; if we ,can. get the benefit of i.t .

Q In oNler to ret,the benefit of it w'hat,would 3rou ba·ve done 1-A,,

would have the boo.rs of J --·b or shortened.,
Q., Withont a diminution of ·wages, of couMe ·t --A. Yea, sir•.
Q. T.h.e ordinary laborer who i acc,usoomed to certain, rooesses of a
p.articnlar industry would of oourse be uo:killed in the oae of new
machinery, and unable. to ·work 1t soooessfully in theprod:nct.io:n of the
sam .· _rii,ele, which he no . . p,rod.uees,on 't he old plan~ -.Upon th:a.t poiat,
W

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wl1,ere the labore·r is disposse·ssed, aot only of actual t,mploymeat, but

of hi~ capacity to o, k, because th ·. work th.,a t he can d.o ·b as been abolj __bed by the iutrod11c iou of .a ·machin,e, what is the.vi.ew of your order I
Ba,v e you th.oog·h t ou·t · hat qnestion, and 'h a·v e you .·ny plan 'b y ·w ich
yon would prol"'"de for th,e d.iffi,eolty I ha·,·e angges·ted t-A. Tha-t i.·- :one
of t~e most diffi,e ul·t probl _uis~ Yoa ~ aw~r,e,:no doub·t, thatt~esJi.oe .
m.a~1ng "trade _.a s a · ade ha . g,ou,a. Machinery has,superseded hand-

work, and to-d•y •hoem.alk ·rs as a class are for tbe most part cobblers
confi.oed ·t-? tapping .a nd half~soling and repairing. Som-e are, of course,
em pJQyed .1.0 tba·t wa .
Q. But is it not a fact t·h at t h ·. great mass of tbe.m are tbarown.o,ut of
emplo~·Jl!ent alto.aether, and in such a case, what ar,e men to dot-A.

Tbose who retain any portion of t·h e trade ar,e engaged in the b118,i neu
of tappin.g and ·n i p,a iring ..
Q. And what are1nen to d.o under eucb cireumstauces ·f -A. The:y a,n ,
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31

BBU'TJO,NS .B ETWEEN L,ABOR AND CAPlTAL1

tbr-nw.n upen the general la~or world,, and they bring in a new element
of 00U1petitio.n with other labor..
Q.. It is the introduction of a great m,ass. of' ~.n&killed labor a,mo-ng
t'be labor eugaged. in. othe·r pursuits 'I -A. Yes, str'.,
.
Q~ ~- ow, when fhat is done., bow is it _
possible to avo-id a I'ied:nction. of
wa -,.es in tb.e otber porauits thus__ ~nundated with ·t his ne:w and un
skilled labor 1-A. It is _not poss,ible, on.less we shorten. tbe b.our. ot
labor,I .aud giv,e the surplruJ a ,c hanee. _ ~ ma · ~o,r king -e ight hour.. !''
day·, i.l] not do a.s much as a man . ~rk1ng t en hours., and therefore, if
,J o• s'ib.orten tbe hours o,f Jabor' you, gtve the surplns labo,r ~h. opportni1ity for employment.
.
.
_
Q. Wages now are tt,gu]a.t@d by deman.,d and supp,ly, ,and by the _price
of the , ·rfcles sold. The more, laborers, you ,employ in, any gi.v ,e u ·wo:rk,1
,o f course the le e wages 'W·i ll be paid to ach. individual.. Ooe.tbousa-n.d
ni,en doing a gi.v en work for l l ap'ieoe- -·he.n yon torn in. two thou · a,n d
men to do the same .a· ·ount of work, as things at I resent range in th.is
·w~r1d.,_tbey will _ge·t butr 50 cent:1 apiece. i o~·, ho'! ean ~ou. reach that
diBi.c ni.t1 ,- A. , T'hat re .ult which you ·m ention might follow to some.
e,xtent - Bu.t the p,rodu.ct.i¥eness of la'b or has greatly increased.. »y
'father made sev,eu dozen a -e - for a day's work,-while I m,aike, 145 ax,es
for a ,day's ,vork.
Q:. Well, tbe de,m aatl has increased oorrespondingly~A. But the
prie s bav · n.ot iucveased. ,oorrespondin.,gly·. My fatber received. eon..
siderab]y more wages than .I do. Be Ji·voo. in a house at, a rent of
a month,, ·rv.h ich is now renting, at 121 ,a mont.h.; he bought tbe bes.t
beef a't 10 cents a ·pf!und, while I ha,re to pa;y .·, 9; he boug·h t_eggs, a _6
ce·n ts a dozen, .and they ,are. now w,o rth 32 e@uts; be bought flour at :-4:
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and .fl5 a barrel.
Q. How long ago was th t f-A. A.bout 1855 nr 18~61 I do nearly
twice as much work as .he did in a, day·. He received 12 a d.ay, and I

can nuikn :tt1.boot· '17
,a,3.,v~o- ..
. Q, .A n~ the, cost of living is about twice as mue.b to _
yon as. to him r. . . . . .
A. Y es_ s,ir1
Q. What ·bas ·made thie ebange t- , _· .. T,he be.atin,g dow,n of ·. ages
upon one. 11.de aind the mon,opolists raising· 'the cost of livin,g u_
po,n the
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other.

Q.. -ow we a.r e. rlght among the. things that trouble ·people. I do
not ask yon ·' bes.e question s with -· n idea of d,0ing a.uything else than
·t o draw out 'tbe plans that yon workingm,eo have thon,g ht of .and th.at
seem to yoill to pro:mise a r.em,etly for these difficulties. : f you an
ma~·e any su."'ge -•tions i'n that direction they ·w ill undou·b tedly be ,~a..1..
uable to the co,mmi: tee.-Ai One of tb.e suggestions tba.t I, as, an. indlvidnal, would ha ,e to make _would, be t e esta·blishment of a national
bureau of st ~t.is,tics, I would sugges,t also tba,t 't he question of \"'Olnn"
tar:y arbitration. bou1d be 'p laced before ·t be people.and kept steadily befo,r e th ·ir mi.n ds.. I ·. ould haV"e co-opera.ti-on ,as another .means of remunerating fairly those b.o take part io the p,rodoeti,on of' wealth,., and
I would bav·e i.t ext,end. to maebn1e·r y .an(l e~erything else, thus ,eman:~
eip_a ting fbe -ork.ingmen :from the condition of wage-w,orkers.
_ Q,. E -. plai' tbat more folly..- ·• , . · _ II., when a ma.n enteris upon bus..
iness for himself he ,ceaseiS to be a wage-worker subj ec.t to the di.ctat1on
of the bosses, and. he co.n not be th:r o, -n ut of empl0Iment. In like
maun.er w , want to em.aueiJJate 011r?e'lve,s f1--om the con.di tion of wa 6"8-1

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·worker8, and fr0,m .hat Habflit~ · to b .·• thrown out of' employme·n,t which
is one_~f the coucom:i tant ·.· of wa.g e working..
Q. .H ow do yon. propose to pass from the. co,ndi.tion of the, wa1re-

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

wo,r ker, a.£ross the chasm to tbe con,dition of the capitalist 1-A. T .:at
is a process o,f educa.tion. in · .hich uo legislative .mean.~ can be adopted.
, :·b -, ·e stated th ·· tbi ogs that ·:. e are hoping &Dll atriving for. I ·would
like t-0 see a law 1,a .: ed, too,, prohibiting m en from speculating 'in the,
necessaries of life -whea,t, fore ·.ample.
Kr'l 'G EOR-GE., That idea i · no,t confined to yoo·r order.,
The WITNESS .. :N o,;. l thin'k it is pretty gooemlly dHfu ed11,
_ The CHAIRMAN~ You a.re aleadi ·_g r-epresent ~ ti·\ ·@
. of one of ·tbe. leadin,g labor or,g aniza ions of' the co-nntry, ·nd we ·w an.t to squeeze out of
1

yon all tbe inJormat1on or soggestions101t id,eas, t-hat, Jro,a may· .hav:e

upon tbes ·. ,· :ubJ -~cts.

.

The · .· ITNESS~ Ver · good~ And J ho_pe yon will sqneeze the Senate
and 'the Hoose io · be same. way.
The OHAIIWA.N.. W,·n, yon, know tbe Senate and the Hoo.se are mad,e
up ,la.rgel:v· of' l~·WJeT •-', and they have uo-t had the bene,fi.t of the thou_
gbt
that ]ton wor'llcin.gmen h · ,re -". ·en to· this subject. They ,are only a set

of :buman beiog1s_· absorbed to a ,great exte11t io tbei:r own busjness, a,n d

,y ou gentlemen '· ~o h · . e been. snffer1ng and thinking are probably able

to make valuable suggestion.a, upon tbese points.. All the great ideas

o:f th~ world hav,e, come from_such sources; an.d in W'h at pertains to
Joor iotemsts ,)'"OU are m.ore lik.e1y to ha·V" · truck upon the right- I,e ail
t han ,othe~s- are..
Tb · • WITNESS. I w·o uld 'like to digress for a, mome-nt to say that some,

1

lawyers know a gOtld deal ,about tbese matters. If )"'00 ask Bn1y,Wallace wh.at he know .. about ·t he grievan.oes of' the work1ng·men I think
..· · .n,tlii
n· ,!~triv,
moo··. d.· ,d,e- ·..a' l, ·.··o" f 1~n
,Afiu- d m·o·"·,PGJ
·he
~ ,·
... e
. · ,yon
' _. a
· . ,~·
,- ~o
U·.·rm
, .aqti/o·
l . .n, ,~
11·or be
- ha,
, ~ pl'lift
.
eaaes of conspiracy ag.aiust worki.ng~men · than any o,ne else. that I
kno,w of.
_ The ~ -H AIBHAN. Well, be .. a;s in Oong.ress six o,r eight years, and I
do not know tha.t he, ever, did .a nything· about it. H,ere uow is a com"'
m1·ttee that wants, to,,collect all the ·i ·form.ation and ,all the i(lea.& that:
it ca·n upon this subject, and I trust you will give. it, .a ll the aid in your
power~
_ Th.e WITNB;s s. Well, hi ~ega.rd to, i·h e hou·r s, of labor, we ask the en.•
fomem-e nt of the nat.iona.l ei.g ht.. boor law·.. That law, was passed, b-nt 'i t .
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bas, ·n ot ·b een ~nforced.•
The CBAIB. · · '., nt that applies only to Government wor-k~
The, WITNESS.. T'b a't is, all •
.
·B v the CDA.lR,M Alf:
Q~. Bow do yon pro_p ose to reach. the r-elation be.tween t.h e private
,e mployer and his laborer in tha;t ree.pee·t 1-A.. Those are matters -o f
-•:: t·i o 1.......
t b.· y 1me
..
nA.ffl.
Th
,ed
_ ocawou,
oo wol"·k ·,e d
··. on·"
.a n d.~- ,e x~.enee..
-,
,'·-e· e are some
I. ., .

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littl.e re·medies, ho·wev·er, fo.r exis,t:i ng evi],s that ·we ca.n. take advantage
of at on.ee. Among thoge ·would be th·e abolition o,f the "pluck me"
~,tores by a law t .h at could not be pnnc:t ured, o·r o·v-erridden, ,o·r evaded
ID
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&;D'11:1· ·. W<lly
P,l · :•

Q~ Those stores ar-e local ~ nstitn-tion,s in the ,S,tates.. Is there a feel- ·
in.g -am~ong yo-ur order·that the National. Governmeut l!ot1ld aboli ·. ,h. those
stores I- A. When we come to ,oo-ns.ider the relations and d.ut,ie . between
t · eGov~m· ent and the indepen-d.· ··_,·. St~ tes, ,a nd.t~e.oontrolofthe Sta'tea
over their own a~airs, ·· e know that the General GoT"ernmen-t ,c ould. not
pass BIJJ such. ]a:w; bat. we tbin.k the States can, and ··· beu we talk on
th.e su'b jec.t b.e re w·· know ~e. .re· talki.ng to 'tb,e 11 ·ople of all the BtatM
that f'Ompose the ge ,e ral Gov~rn.meut. We. do· not l,eUev-e that Oongr--·• , can by Jaw prohibit ,op rators from eis tablislling these ''plnckmei"
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

store ; bnt w•e do 'k now th.at t ,e Jaw _of Pennsylvania is. .a fa-100.,, an.d
we wish to e, pres -·, our vie -· s b.e re that.they ma;y be o.nd.e ,tood throu.g h1 -

OD t tb
..., . C.0"·u
. nt·
..· r'l:r
_11"'
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,,D;

Q. -_ -·o·n think tha. - in t ;·b • _way· you can rea.c h and mold t 'b at ·p ublic

OJlinion which m~st be behi'od every law .in ord.e r t~ ~nre its e~foree,.
m•e nt!- -.. -··.· e think ,so, and _e hope, fnrtlter, that the G· nera-1 Gov ..
e:rument will rut i.st os in reganl to al 1 those ma.-tters which are general
in their nature, and in w·bicb the rig.h ts of· the States. would 11ot 'be. in
t ..r:fered with~ I ·ref. r ,, for instance" to f ,e e foroe~eD.t of t ,h e .·ati.o nal
eight.hour law,
hat is a matter resting_with the_Gen.eral Govemment,
·n.ot with. the '- tate&, and ·w e kDO·W that that la·w baa be.en set aside in,
the n·av3~-ya.r ds and in 0th.e r places w·he~e labor is em.ployed. under the1
General Go: ernmen't.
Q Ba .-,e ~T
on eTer tak,ea. into oonside t·on the power oft.be General
G·o ernment o ,e r labor em.plo _ed in commerce, int~a~_and e.xternal,
and over' transportation ro · f,es. by land and water! · ave y·o u e·v,e r·
considered ·whether the National 'Government ·might not legitimately
l gi.sl t in th_at dil~ ·_tion !-A. ·T he -· at1.onal _Go·\"'ernmen.t ean as81Bt
us m· teriaUy in that way.. W,e thin.k tbat, it baa, jori. dictioa over the.
rnoilmads. of this ~nntry .; bu · the vas.t monoplaes have swallowed up
,e , er..vthin.g and ·11ave soch gen.era] eontrol that they no·w are, virtually·
the Government, MJ th.e case. appeam, to us.
Q.. What about tbe day o.f r,e st, the Sonday of - be labore·r in thia;
eoantry; is it ·iute·rferred wit:h by employ~s t - We .know that -tile railroa,(~ em.,.loy~s
on
Sabbath' as ~ I~ as 0 'D_the 'other· days of .~he
"«'· _k.- .• Yes, s1r, and tbe,y d,o not receive an.y extra com,pensation.
But usu Iii:· in. the.man faetori ·.g estab,l ishmenta if a man w,o rks on th.e
Sabba'tb he is paid fo r it, and ,s o if he works at,ni,g ht he is paid extra for
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tba1.

Q" Setti.og aside the reli,g ioos view of t'he qnestion, .a ■d regarding it
solely s an economic, o e, if you coo.Id b.ave your own. way woul,dl yon
pern1it labor to be em.ployed o,n the Sab~"lth. at all t-A. We'll, ·t here 18
work that must be done on Sunday
Q. ·-ut those cases are exoopti,o,n al, a·r e, tbey not t-A,. O, ,yea ; that
'i , exceptional, and where,v er ·i t, is IlOSS.ible for .a,mao.to rest a d ¥ .in the,
·w eek:, w e wuu. d rke him to, do ,so,,and also t,o ha,~e a half holid-, on
Satunl ·y ;. on •d.ay is not en.iou '.h- · Our libraries •~ not open on Son..
1

1

day, and. a man caunotgo anyw·her-e to e:ojoy .himself mentally on 8,llD..
day; all he ean do i· to ·w,a lk out physicalJy on the s;tr,eet..
Q:. From the way you. ans,wer, I take it tha,t the labor unions, have,
not giy:e , uc. thought to the, q,t1e.stiou. of t he powers of the National
Go\ ,ernment. -A. ~he Grange' ,,I think, h.ave presented _that.as folly JUI
pos ""ible in connection wlth tbe ,e stabU ~bm.en.t of ,e quitable prices,for tb,e.
trau -portatioo of th lr prnducts. We know tha~ we_ha-·. e to, ·pay the
ex.oosa which tbe railroad compauies ta'ke from the farmer for .moving
bis crops . .
·Q. .B ut I .am speak.ing of the oond·ition.of labor as,em11loyed upou the
1

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1•

1

routes of tra-c- sportation ... w·eu, -ince the railroads are. granted
SJl , cial pri vi1eges. 'they sb.o uld not he allowfd to .ta.x. the people at
the enormous rates, they d.,o, :for earrying b:ooad• tufts and tlle .h k .·, and
it s.b o ld not be optional with the·m to form pools artd rings..ag.a inst the.
ioteres.ta of the people, so a , to rai .. e the pnoo of the,nooe ari,e s ,o f 'life.
'
By 'Alr. GE10RG ..
Q . . A.m ong tbe C."l)l,i tah ts that ·i call · . · "pool,,'' or•' yndieate," but
a-mo.ng the labor-e· ·t is a '' oon.s,p imey"'1 --A•. Yes, sir.
1

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40

REL,ATION'S BETW'E EN LABOB ,J.ND, 0A.PITAL.
1

B . be O - AIRllAN :
Q Have ,~on ,,isited the other sections of the country,,60 that you ,c an
,d escribe the condition of the laboring people in hns'b ndry as well aa in
niecb.anioal JJursoits tn · ,ew ,. ·ngl .nd, and :i n the · esta.n.d Sontbl- •. ·.•
I was in t.h .· Soofh as a soldier; bn't of conr,se &oei .· ty was disorganized
at that time. I ha·ve. , ot traveled among the agricultural people in the
West, an•d w'here I have friends n,~ing in the co.nu.try th.e y live in an.
oJ.d, w~JJ.es tablirsbed co muni ty, wber ·. I ba e not seen an.y· suffering.
Eversbody bas pl'. e nty to, eat aud to ·w·e ar•.
Q Which is yonr native State !-A,, Peonsylvam&.
1

By 'M ri

GEORGE;
Q.• Ar~ t 'h ere many agriculturttl Jabor,. r ., in your unton·T A. Tbey are·
com~ng i'n fa, ,t, Tbe Granfr•e as a body· is coming in mpidly.
1

By the

Q,.

CHAIKJIA.N:
Do, t'bey r organi.ze or dot-he indi.,·idual mewbeNJ, ·b ecome m

bers of the Kniahts of Labor ·- · ·· .. 'Ihe iudividnals,beoome

e· b -r ·. of

1

the Knig ts of Labor,,

Q.. Tb ~·n their lodges ,a re extendiug· into the agricnltnral
A. Yes, sir..
-

,Q An,l yo a •e
Y e '- oir
'
__ "'
1

I

'l

~

r:e,g ious .. -

har ony or symp.a thy -it' ' , . .'h e Gra,n gers,! -.:\.

-

0

. Q. S·pea,k ing of' he wa~: in · hich. a .. au organization you protect t.ke
ind~vidu,a ls belo ·gi:ng to the order, do yon m '°',e any pr-ovision for the
laborer .. ho is,'tempora.r ily thrown oot of emplo~ ment by reas.on of sick•
neBS or casualty :for which t,be employ - ~s no·t ~ : poo ible tb t
is a local matter vibich is s ttl d looal1 · b.1· ·the various lodges an<l a-ssem..
blie ·., ·S ome have local sick b · n.t fonds, ot'hers ,to nof, 1.t ·j ,- ,an. o•p,i\

t-ional ·m atter with them, Jost as they may· find. it nee · ssaryii 0ne of onr·
1

objecta is to ex.ten~t ab · lping ba\'n d to·t.'he ~nemployed laborer,, wbet , · ·a
memb :r•of our order or not. So long as he ie, a bu.man be·,init w·e reco,g. .
nize 'bim, as a ii llo·w-man .- nd lend him. a help.I ng lia:ud,.
__ r-. GOMPEB.s. ': .cep,t wbe , 'he i a'' sead."
The W111NEss. Ye,s ; except when be i.s a ''sca,1,"' and e:v en 'then we
11.e lp him~
By the, CuAm.11A . :
,Q. What is a'' . ca(l''T- A .. Heisaman who take . the,plaee of another
man who has been _discbarged, by· the emplo ·er· without,jost cause, If
he is among t ·e prin'te s, h • is ca1led a "ratl' among ,cigar m ·'k rs and
carpenters, he is a ,. scab" or " 'Cad,,,. and among iner,s be is a •Ii•'b lackleg~"· b . he .i s a very oo~.t, mp ti.bl~·per :~on in any class ; at least . e .' hi k
he s, _- nd we t_cy to make the worl ,I think. so.•
Q. ·w hat aid do yon ,e xtentl to ~·our :members whe, they are unemployetl,, to obtain eniployment in th. -" r ,o: n 1.ocalit.i.es or elsewhere f-A.
W'h en a m . n. ia ou·t of work, if he i.s a, member,, w·,e assi t him..
bat is,
volu.ntary, howeYer; nothing inore tban the fratern!}l spirit which exists
amo g brethren ,o f a fratern1 J-we a ··sist him · _, n<l get 'h.i · ·w ork if we,
,can.•
1

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B
Q. Do you, ··1k:e ,o,t her s cieti. ,, ha~e meaus of T•e eognizing · be ,e m
hers of 't he hrotberhood ' ·- ·A. Y,es, sir; ,ve have a way o · reoogniz,ing

a brother,"

D·-o any otb r matterrs occur to you tba.t yon would
like, to state at tbiis, tim.e 'I
The CHAIR. A ..

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

Tbere muy be, other suggestions t'bat
I shall des.i re to, make. before the in,restiga.t ion clo .es"'
w.i sh to have
'T he. WlTNESSjl, NotJus1t, now·.

another op,potitooity before I go away.
MJoD'med.

K .. Fo,S TEB S'W OrD
·•·y .Mr. GEORG1 : :

FR,ANX

W AB-B lNMOH, D,. 0.,, Februar,y 8, 1883~
and exi, mined.

Qu ~,tion. Ho

old aire yon 1- . n,sw, r·. Tw,ent:y. ,se,..en.
Q. Where w• ~e . -,o n born - .A In llassa,chnsetb.111
Qt · ·'hat. i .. '\""our occuva-tiou ". -A. ~'. 'ri"nt: r~

Q, Ho- · long have you. been engaged in it ;J-A. Te·n years1
Q. In wl11at.. Jlart, of Mas, aclun~ett do yon re '.jde ! A. At OamhI"idn-e•.
Q. Bow long :bav·e ,on resi.,led .be' e ·- Ai ~.early four year< ,
,Q. A ,e you a m ·m ber of a11y of tbese labor org.aoizati.ons th~ t. ha r.,e
·t,eeo tie ewitbetl by M. Lal~tou · -A. Ye•.·, sir.
Q. Of" ·wl1J'Ch oue !-A .. Of sever.al. I n 1n a mem·b er of two luibor soci,eties anil two del'e.g ate bod.ie.s a men1b~r of the Jnternationa'I IJ5~·po,gra,p -.ieal .· ·uion, of the Kn·;_g hts of L~t.uor of the Uentral T.1ade·s uud
ii•

1

Labo:r U niou of Dos ~ou, and of the l ,[ as·"acll1u -~,ett.s F ederatio.o , f Trad -: •
Q~ Are, 3 011. acquainted witll the ··ocu1l and. linencia 1 co-nd1.tio11 of t lie
'laborin,g classes ·i n .l \la sacbnsetts or hl nt,y 1wrtion of th.at .S tate, the
rates o.f wag, s they rece.i.,~e,1and their geue1·.a l cond.ition -.-- A. To soroe
extent-so far a.s I have had o,ppo11.uui1tiezs, for ob~ervatio,n.,
,Q. So! iar aA . our o·hser _atiou extend·R,. i .., their condition about nnifo,1·m 'throughout the State, or is it tlrtJe:re-n , ·i n (ltif ·. :rPnt portions oft he
St.a·t e ! - It ,,a.ri~s Jo some respects i·n di.fferieo.t portions of the. S,t.ate.
I think that the larger nianu.factll:ring cent.eris J>.re -ent mo,r,e of th extremes, of n.eee s.ity a,nd 'W ant than the agricwtnral regiou.s .f tbe;
1Sta.t.e.
Q. S'tate Arst the. cou.dition of the. tr-ade or occupation. to wbi.e b yoll
belong, t-he soei.al nd finanichtl co.ndi 'ion genera.Uy o,f tbe printer ..
The inquiry exteuds. t-0 the wh.ole range of their condition. We want
1

to ~now your, gain,_., your prospects i'n life, ho· _.· you are lodged,, fed, antl
•clothed, what sort of soeial advanta.g,es ,ou ba, e, · ,bat, 0111.,ortnn1ties
the families of' those. eug.a._g ed in that oecupation. h :a'\"e ; iu short w

wis·b. to i.nquire in.to 'the w·ho1e sttbj et.-A." The :mem'bers of the pl'iuti.n g· trade in . 1assac.b usetts occupy j n the· tratle q tJite a large 1;.ariety of'
positions, 1~elat · _-eJ,y. 'l'be wa.,gelS pa:i(l to print~rs f.bere ,; .a n ,a II the
:W~Y from 88 o-r $9 a . ·e k to $2@ or ..·2u a w · ek for' ,m ale labor; tbe
last-named ,~nm 'b eing, of oour ·. , the wa_ges pai1l t'bose ho liold, esi)ecian,., remt1nera,tt.. .e. situatio,n s, and those working on the moruin_n; neu?.S-·
pa.pe . . The special :r easoi for tbe dHf rence ·in, w ~g .· in. th : e in~
1

1

,stances matJ , perhap ·- 't be o .. ing c·biefl.r to the uubealtbi.ness of tbe o ·cnpation, an,d. its tendency to shorten li'te-tb · train on th · ,~itality an<l
pbysic~l w · ·11-b . in.g of tbo .· e e,ng ·ge.(l in nigbt work.!! Then aga1iu,, the
~ucb more seve ,e ,c ompetition tba : those ~nga,~ed in da:.- w ·rk, ~s'IH='~
ciall,Y ·i n book work.~ ha, to 1neet from the large ioflu ·. fnHL tbe.B1*i ..1s h
provtn.ces of Canada., Nova.. Sco•tia, P1■i.nce i ·r d~,.anl l~,lau.itl,. N . · ·fou111l ..
la.n d, New Bruns.wick, and Qn,e boo, \vbe' · prio - ,,are low r . ainl al·o 'th i'o t:rodoct ion of .la.te,, t bough not to a lar,ge ,e ·.. .tent, of fem a le. Ia lMl•r i.n the
part of the trade pe:rtniuio,g directly to settio,g type The~·· eleme.u·t s
.i

1

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42'

RELATIO,NS ,B ET'W.E EN LA.BOB AND CAPITAL.
1

come in diree't oowpetitio,11 with many men. who ha ·e ser'led an apprentice ··bip at the trade, ,a.ud., a , a large port''o · o·f the work consists of·
tJJ.)e setting,, 'th.e competition. is veT) · severe. T.hose w.ho reooiv·e the,
la·r gest ·wages ,a.re enabled to•sup-p ort their families in oomp r tive com,.
fort~ provided they are indas·trious aud eoonomical; 'but at t e JJ·t e -~,

rates-of 1· ving, the la,rge 10 ajorit.y of the printers in .I , assae nsetts find
it d i8i.c ult to li,·e U:P to the tr.aditioniS of their' craft, 'to support their filmt ..
:Ii.es and educate 1.h eir cb.]d'ren ·i n .a mabn,e r tbat•thet.. hold beeomtu,g; to
printers and to · m rieau citizens~ In fact t'his view is.so wideJ,.r pre,..aJent

among the·youn,germen growing op, tha 'lJlodin.agreatmanyins,t.a.ncea

that b · .;. ·T" do not ta. _,e unt o thero.sel-v-ec.. b·. lpmeets, hein ·_. afraid_to h:~enr,
the 1eS,poD' ibilities of nu,rried. life, because they d~ n.o,t thin.k that tb.eir

trdd.e wanants them .i.n assuming·snch responsibilities. Many personal
insta.neea haive oome u der- my obser,,..atiou of meu ·wo.rking in th.e sa.me
. building with .myself, and 'Wit'h · bom I come in contaet ,d a-ily,, wbo ~re
• actuated to a large extent by these prudentiul ·motives i'n l'emaining
single. They feel that- the future has no brighter prospeot than t.he}lJ'le, en.t in. thia regard; they feel tbat so long as 'the:)" r-emain .a t t,hat
trade they will be compeU.ed to live i.n boarding-houses,. to surrender
the hope of a home and to oo-nten-t tbenutelves wf 'h t:h e life of a single
man.. Again, find that,gnite ,a lar,g:e pr-opo-rtion of the labor em.ployed
in th.e. oowposin.g room, to ·w llieh de,_p artm.ent I ·b eloo.g-thait ist ,s etting
typ · and preparing it, for the press,, the dti[erent stages of the trad0t
tlle m.aking up-of tbe forms, the -office ,corrections, the work .. h1cb ooost~tutea,,in th~ ftrat ,g rade of offices,, a large per cent* of the wo,r k d.o-ne1 fin.d in that de,partment that :m n,c h. of the,fema]e. labor tber-e @'mplosed
eon ·iists of'tbe M1a i-_ es t:b e danghterrs, siate:rs, or oousins or ao·n ts--or·
the men wbo,are wnrking at tbe trade. These men find it ,almost neceasar:, 'to have some oth.er mea.ns, o.f revenue in additi,o n to what t·heit
themselves can ea-rn in tb.ei.r employment. Th·is, of coll'rse, in the ,en.d.
o-pera.t~s t,o the ,d etrlment of the skilled labor, and of the craft .g euerally.
The social. condition of the m,en empl,o yed iu the 11r1utiog trade, and ,o f
'":. I,:,
·i.u
- .-'m
W
·' ·,n hq,,:~a, . o·,r
t 111d· e'. . .:frirlrl,;!
t,. ia,, r.ai·n=A!L?i
''"°'' ·o.,·'f ,co··ur~:e ac,flo,rd·.1' iug- o·. Cll'
- ·St"'iliD.iArO!lo:!!
~ - '!i l."l,.,'ll,;I!■,
a.re eup_p osed 'to, have., at least an av;e rage d.e gree of intelbgenee amo-ng
tbe members of our craft, owing ,partly if n.ot chiedy to the nature of
tbe av~tion, a -,d necessa~ly a great d,e al <!epends upon.· heir ,stnTOnndinga. and upon. t;h e eooditiou of their fa.milies, as to th-e ir mode of life.
and.. goeia) enjoyments. I have in my mind se eral ,e xtremes. I know
m,ao.y me.u. who ha. e.families t,o support, consisting of tbroo, four, or fi.ve
child,ren,, who are. oo·mp : lled to support them by their work at tb.e ease
T U&,

C

•

~

-

,

•

••

V

' .. - -

,' .

t·

I

.

• .

I ·-

.

11;1

A' " ,.,..,

..·

in the book O:Oicea .in.Boston aud 'V iicinity and also thr,oughout the Sta·t e.
,am familiar with tbe condition. of the business tbrooghont the State..
I k.now, I sa.y, of ,s e e_al i.nstan.ees w'h ere 'i t j ,· , impossible for men to
proonre. anything more 1.han a ve-ry ordinary Quality· of !iring· for their
families_
b,oon:fi.ning them,selv·es 'Wholey to tbe ,s imple n.eeessities, and ·n ot

be·ng a •le to enjoy any of the luxuries o:f life, I do uot 1&uppose it ia,
11,ooeBsary to en.~~ into de1:Bil -~~on tbi~ poi.~t, ~us,e the. insta~ees, are
so T1nm,erous that tbey m1gbt al:m.ost be called the rule instead ,o f tbe
~xooption. Io this, c0rnnootion I wo-ol(l say in regar,d to the .·omal stand•
!Ilg of_ the, ,m en ,e:m·p1oyed in newapaper work, that the~ ,c an, of coune,
by i:odustry· and economy,, mana ge 'to, re er . e a portion of their earn~
1ngs, provided they ha.v,e to .:c n,,countel" ou·Jy the ordiuar_
y dHliculties e£
life,_a-n d, 1n v~ry n1a-ny cases,. they· are e-nabl-ed to, proeum little homes
of tbeir ,own_
; but I think I am. safe.iu. saying ·t hat the large. majority of'
1

t~e trade, live from band.to :m outl · a dare depende:u t upon the prod.o ct
of their w,e ek's ·wa,ges fo·r the support of their family ,d uring tbe nez.t
week or fortnig'h t, as the case may be.;

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

BELATIONS B,E TWEEN LABOB AHD CAPITAL..

,43

:The occupation is ondonbtedly o e _of tbe must :injurious, ajs regards
t be ·))hysieal 'W'elfar:e of .hose emi•~oyed in it, of any of' t·b.e skilled trades,
so, called. Tbe tables of mortality, so far as I baTe soon them,, place
1

tlie death mt.c an•oug 11,riHtc1·M ,a.bout. the bi , hes't of any o,f th · 't -,ades.,
T'hi - is o\\·ing in large. rneasure to tb.e necessity· to which tbey· are subli.
j,eeted of inl1aHug th. antimouy or 'b lae.k lead that collec~ iu th·~ type,
·_· s,1,.ecially vrhe·r e the ele trot.y piug or te:reotyping process is used, as in
book~m,ak,i ng,, and breatbin,g air trom w·h leb th@ oxygen bas. been ex~
bnusted b~ the co,n~uu11ltio,.11 of ga.s ·in ·n ight-work, 0 ·11,d the unnatural
1oonditio:n of · be laborer who ha - 'to work 1luring the nigh.'t,
do no --tbi'ok tbat a . th . 1,rese,nt t irne th.ere iN,, to ,a ny cousiderable
11 ·
~
" t11~
., tin,a t.:,ra d- e to ·ra~se
"'
ex.te.n.-t,, op,p o,r tun ,. ty g1,"en,
.i'_~r
1uem,l........
tjt-rs o.f'" t h'- ~ pnn
· benns.elves from the ·' 011d1tion o,f ·wage .. work,e rs, if tiley llave any .family·
tie,. or ex,Jl ,use,s, owing to those p ·ariods of si,ckness .and nee ·ssa-ril.y ex.tra..
ordi1:1ar:r ex11eus . tbat are incident UJKlD the care of a family,,. That bu
beeu my c.x perienee, a~od I , .a ·.e no donbt :i t is th .. ,e xperieHee of" most
of' 1u3 fiillow -·w orkm.eo,;, :•it lier from the 1100olia-r na:ture of' the trade,
or f1um ,s ome eau,s e t'bat I a.m 11nable to ,a soorta.i.n, there i ·, a E.obemian
di~posit'ion pre . a nt amon.g the l)fint:,. rs-a ro-viug di ·-1>ositiou. Tho
natu1~ of the, tr.a.de 11ermi ... . tbem to wa.nder f~o,1u pla · . to place, and a
grent m,ao,.r a1ail them .elves of tbi • t)M',_ ilege, preferr.i ug to live1no.
miadle lives i'ostead of remaini'n,g i'D one looalitv.
·
The hah,i't s o.f printe-rs, ~ presu·, e,, are perfeet]y we]l known to the,
,c omwunity· at large. Tbey bav,e. at leas· attributed to, t ;· em a ·1arger,
percentage ,o f intemperanf!e 1n the use. of m1auy of the loxur.ie.s of life
tban mo .· t other,·wo:r k.meu, and tb.i is probably owiug to the reaso,nie, I
La"re, gi -r.en, the charaete·r of t - e ·w ork, tl1e, JRaoner of lit. , tbe disposition not to in.cur the 'l"e-SJ)Ousibilit:v of family life, and the monotonous
1u1 tore of the occupation.. The co,n ditiou of the printer's fa mil~ va riea
o~· course with tbe locali.t y and the ,eire11mst-ances snrronoding _
the indi•
vidual. In t.be, ,00111ntry towns, w·h ere the price of proJ>erty is less th D.
iu the eities, 1t is po.s ib1e, I thin.k·,. for tb: printer to live better· than iD
t ·e great centers of industry, owin.g to ,sma11er rents and ·t o the greater
o,p portu.nities that his children a:u.,d fami'ly have there fo:r out-of.door
amusements and :recreati.on, _nd owing also, to the greater social privi.
J. ges, of the smaller "to\TD&i But th@ J,arger share of the men i"o the cities
Ji,te, as I ha- e said, in boardiog-,b on e.s
Q~, C~n _:yon describe those boarding houses !-A. There is a vast,
range of d.e scrip ion that might be applied to tlte diffefflnt qualities o.f '
boarding•-boase.s tbat are oocupied by p,r inters, but the ordioa1ry meclu ui.,cs' bo rdin:g-bouse is not a pa-radis.e -upon e.art'h ; it. is rather a,
machine a:r rang~ to gi \·e as little as possible, for·tbe llargest amoun·t of
money that c n be obta1ued-a thing eorrespond1.n.g to the industrial
eondition of _ ·ociety a . Jar,ge. T'bese boanling..houses are fa,med in
D.l any of our dramas and novels and n··. ·w spaper d.,esc,ri_ptions,. a:nd ·i n one
wa~~ a~d_a.n~th .· r. ~ Th@ ~eulia~ities 4?if the boarding mistress ~s a,ge11u1,
and of the 1ubab1tauts of the boa.rdiug-bou . e, aite prett,y well known,
an~ I may say genera.n~.· that it is u. l'"er.~V' unbom.e like place..
1

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Q, G·i.,:e us. a speci6.c desen,1)li.on as to how the, boardiog·-honaes are
eonstructed., ·t he number of roow,s tbe~..- uout·ti.11, the. size o·f them, an.d,
,s o on• .. A. In. citi · , of course tbe boarding-houses ,;- a-ry in cbaraoter
1

according to the Jlric•,S ·11aid

aiad

tbe lli "'Jlosi.tion. of the landlady.. The

boanler usna'l ly hires ,a s,l,ee1>in ~·-room,, ,h·ich he , -ha.r es eom·m.o nly with
~ne of hi ._ ow·u craft, or W'Jtb some ,0th.er tmdesma;n with hom he is
aequainted. There is a. common diuio.g~room with a common table
w.h. •re, they m,e ·'t to ,eat,, The food is rarely of the best quality ,o r cooked

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in the best ma·nner.

Tbel'e i:. a 1SO-callecl ·. i tting.. roo1n where the boarders
meet for sneh conver; atlon and recreation as tbey fin. I there, and to
amoke. As a rule·; in. an o ilinary boanli g-bou· •. it ·is not, C0 tomary
for the boarder to bay·e a .ti're in b'is room.; conseq,ueutly in the wiutet-1

tim,~ be •is to .a 1arge m6'1 ~.n re depeuden _ 01lon the pu.b li.e s.ittin,g.. room
,or the tender merei,es of the,,city· s,tr,eets1
The. inte'l'lectoid at1d moral t0r11e or tbe boarding-house :i s ailmost in-·
varia'b l.:r_ not of the ighe· .,t grad·-•- ,r atber he ,eon.t~a.ry.. Boarding~
house,life has a teudene3~to dest10J u1any of tbe chie·f v~--;-tues of ciTilization, It cert a iul) bears o ,ese · : blanee to (lomestie life. It i.s an
u.-o:natt1ral antl abno-rma @', istence, a11tl it v·e ry of:t:en is t'b:e pri1ue·
tneans of can --in~ ti e· boo.r der, un les . he J11a ., a snfflci.e nt mak,e-w·eigh.t
in bis own int elU1:ence and character to other · ise e · .ploy himself, to
1&eek amus . 01e11.t iu 1n1blie pbtc•e·~,. in the billianl-room, and ~n. t.b··. sa1,oon.
In_~ e boa.rdin,g--bon ·e th .re i ·. not~ing to entertain. or to ch~·r bho;
.seldom a:uy· pi,c tures, or books,, or female eornpaDiou . hip of ·.·he proper
kind.; and. in ord .r to g!'ia1ti(r biia s . •··•,j"·1 faculties he freqnently .s eeks
pleaauie in the for1ns in ·~ b1oll 'it is met v.Tith iu the salonn.
So far .. m,y obsen-at:i.on ext , ds, it i.s cus.tomary amo ·· g the p·riuters.
to ed.11,ca't-e their· cbildren in the co:m1nou ~cbool .· • They are rarely able
to give th.em further ednicatiou, ,e h.her a ·t fbe hig'h sc·hool o,r tbe .aead--emy,_and as soo:o a,s tb - children arriY-e at the ag of fifteen or sixteeu,
and in ,m.any iu -, tanees e,. .en ear1i r.,, tbey :are ·w,o,:r :k'iug a~ ome busi.ne~s
wherieby th.e1· can eontribute to t'he sup,p ort of the family,
There is one. featur-e of the printing trade ·,. hicb exis,t s in the smrG1tller
t,o· . ,ns that is absent from the ei'ty. That is tbe prac i,ee of the. small
offices of fhe. ·\1~,eeklJ ne , spapers 10 ,iUa-g es a.ad eoun.try towns of givin,g tbeir em.Jlloyes. or-tiers u the variou ·. stores.- an.o t,b er b-m nch 0,f the·
tr1ic·k sy1sten1 wh ·,ch has been described by t:he preceding ·witness~ T.be,y
SGlic'it atlvert-isem,e,n .s for their paper ., and, 1n O'l'.'~.e r _to, get. ·t b -~·m,. ·.. ery
ofte11 .agree to take tbeireompenSi·ti.oa •O. ·in , , trade,'' and .a ll t-be ,satis.
faction. that tb.e pr.inte·r ca,u .l?e·t when 1>aJ·-d.ny comes i _. generally· two o·r
tb.ree dolla1 i I.\ money,.and ordel'ti OD ·t he ,store-kee_p ers for some artic'les
of merchandise·. This abuse, owing to the dift'erent oondit,ions of tbe,
trade, ire .a bsent in large mea.s ore frow the cities.
The condition oft.be works'ho11 is very often qui'te unfav,orab-le t0r
health. The spaoo, nee il iirny occupied, •·specia1ly in cities, by· a ,com ..
posing-room ~•· press•-roow necessitat·. s a 'l ar,ge rent,if proper sanitary
couditions are obser,..,e d, so ,, e. frequent]y ·fiatl pri.nting· offices ill · "'·entilat,e d an,l defeot1 ve i.n a]l t be ap,p lia .c es req ltb,ite.for the promotion or
preservation of b,: a.Ith a.mou,. : tb.e e·mit-1,oye ·, I have iu my uiind an. 11u "'
,stance i Bo ·ton ·where. t.be gir.· , ,enlJ)lo,·~ed :is ,compositors, to tbe num ..
ber of twentv-~ii, e or thir .-, w ·re coo11etl up :i u a b.ttle apartment at tho
top of a bn1lcliug next to t be roof~ au<l hghtetl on]}.~ by a, sk3:~light, with
no opportnni'ty fb1 Ycnti.lation a.ntl no sanita1:r accommodations without
the descen . of 1-ee tUght· ., of stairs, anll it vrus n~t unusual dur-in_g ·t he
hot weatbe.r to .nd at l ust o , ca e o,f fniuti,n,g during the day among·
the gi.rls ;·here . n1plOJ ed.
··
,.,
By th• Ce 1R11 N:
Q. ~hat w·e re the ilio1 ·.· ns~'on of' the apartm,, n · . A. I have a v,e ry·
poor head for 1uatbemat1cs, aud I clo 00 1 kuo\v 'bat I oould gi:ve J . n
the dlm.e nsions i:o ·gnres . y,e·n ap_ll oximnt~Jy; bn't the,room w.as about
the width of · bi •. eominitte-e r-001.0, a.nd perbap . a few feet longer.. I ·
should say· that ·i t wos .about · 0 fe =-t '\\Ille by .2·5 fte·t longi It may be
proper to ,8ta te b,e re ·in .r egard to the female·.·. eo11t,loy · cl i 'the, trade :as
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4.5

BE'LATIONS B,E TWEEN LABOR AND CAPlTAL.
1

.at. present ~r.g ani~d,,, that if th~y work at it .for ~ .Y l · ngtb of tiane it
is usual to ·find •CXi·•.ting amoog them many of the dis.ease · con.s equent.
in t.bieir se • upon lo:ug standing. The ph.,ysielans tell us that a.l111os-t.
in, a.ria.bly· ·t he oc.cupn tion iuj ures .'t1le·-,constitution a:~d ·t he pow·e r of
.nb1•·1d ·r eprod
·· uc-tt~·o n·t i"if 1'"t b· J'-n r•;ued ~or
anvT h'10 ,y-I~.J · co
-··o£"1'
_• "d.il'. •r abl· · no,..iJll"Ul
are permitted t,o ·. it almost unh; eri · al1J, bot it is difficult to ·r emain
that JKISition fo,r . thing like the lar.g er part of the tim,e ,con .· titntiDg·
a day·,,s labor.
.
.
.
experi.,e nce, to a ~a· degree i'o New Engl . n.d , , ..ery. severe eomIl -tit ion, a , ha . e · aid from pe·rsom,s w·h o co,me ·in from 'th.e Britis,h Pro,vioce --," n the provinces tbey are aeeustomed. to receive nomiua1Jy Jo·wer
wages tha.n t'hose received in Ne·w Eugland,. and. often they do not ta'ke
in.to consid.e rati.on. the ver~r ·much gr·ea'ter·oos.t of livin\g amiong us t·ban
in tbe. p!aces. ~·b!!n~ .. her.C()me.. ~t the . pr~e~-t ti."11:1,e, 1.1:o wevertl think
the tendency tS to pl ·..·.. both sections of ..L: orth America o.n tne..same
leYel as. to th.e. wages paid to printers.
_,Q. ~4? you_~ea1;1. eq·oali'ty in. -·~be no~~nal ~oont o:f wa.ges paid.,. ·or
tha.t wb·1cll g1.~es the same re1.at1 e· quall'ty of so.p port ! '- A. The same
relative quality of support" Tbe. wages 11aid tbe female portio·n of the
trad.e is ,geoe,ral1y t · ·o-thirds tba:t, ·p aid. tbe ~ale portion fo·r t. 1e same
work~ The e ·. pertue .•.· acquired by _ma.n,· of the 'fi. m ·. le ,com·p ositors.
will equal in mans departmeuts of the business that of the males; bnt,
a . a general thing, they 'h ave uot the abH~ty to _ork as long boors.
Q... ·.·.·. ·.hat~ are the. da'ily hours of labor f-A. Ten hours a ,day is ·the
n:ua1. ti'me for dt ·:f work, and mcme than tb.at for those who work. at
·~ ight. Tbe t,e cbnical division. or· the night work is some .· bat diff'erent
from. that of day wor·k , as t-be nigl1.t workman. geo :rally works, two or
three hon.r s in the .a.Ctern,o ou, and then begins his night v.·ork at 7 o'cloo,k
in the evemi .g a ·d works un·t il 12, w·h en h• · takes, a fe:w minutes for
'lunch, and then works ~ntil t~e edition of . _he papeT is comp,lete,. which.
may be at 3,, or ., , -or·.5 o'clock 10 the. moro10,g.,
B,y Mr. GE10BG·E :
Q,. Are the p:r in.ters ·p aid 'b y the p·iece,. or by tbe· h.o ur, or by the day 1·
·- A.. They are paid i.n both ways. The larger·p11.r t o,f tbe work of eom~
position in. t·he hook trade and in th.e u.e wspaper bu.sine,s s, is.:p aid by th.e
,em ; fhat is,. blT the pi-ece.
By the CDAIRH .·N :
Q~, Wha-t i.s an en, !-A, It is th.e 1s tandard of mea •·urem.ent i·n the
printin,g tr.a d :·, .and is reckoned
· · .. from the large·r kind of type used in
-o~ ioary work, p.ica~ .·. Jlica em ~ ..: ·t he_unit of m.e a urement, anid coi0.sists of .a , sqnan! sup11osed. ·to 'be of tb.,e di:men ions of the letter m Tbe
letters gen.erally. are, of coors •·, ·1.ooger than they are wide;, but the let-ter m is, genera11J sq ·aire, and ·. he s:tanda~d of measurement is .so many
lengths o.f the le.tter m put on i'ts, side. The van.one, type -found.em ba·ve
.slightly ditreren·t degrees_ ,of ·0 1 :asurement; but tbey am as n.e arl •" a\l ike
as they ea~ ·1,e m~e, and, in order to, get. O'f" r·th.at,difficulty., we meas~
u.re the · /' d ·, h of the matter b,,. se.ttio.g 1SO many· of ,:h.e m's on their side,,
.instead of in t.beir proper· ·p osition. A pica, ,e m is ·one..sixth of an inc.h,
I beli,e e.
' y Mr·. GEOBGE:
Q. In se·t ting· b y the em1 do the women receive only two•thirds as
mnc~ afi1 the men·f -A._O·nl)"' two~thinl . ,, or approximately two-thirds~
. or i~nstanee, in tb,e. offl.,oo I a~ e·m ployed in,. ~be price paid for composi~
t1on IS 39 eents per tbousan,d ems,, aud the fem.a les .r eceive 27 cents.som,e what more ·t han. two-·thiNl.s the pnce ,p aid to the m.en.
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46

RtL TIO 8 B,E TWEEN. LA.BOB A.ND CAPITAL~

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B.v ·tbe· C-a ·-A1.1·· .:'a;:-·
.._ '~
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__Q.. ~ha~ -~~ th~ -~a~n _o f 'the dis~i.nc~tio·~ t-:--A.. ~e ~11 -~, _I _~uppose,, that tbe ,emJ_)loyer can buy· his labor cheaper from unorgamzed
than from or,ganiz .·d labor',
Q. Th.0 f~male labor beiog on.orgaui'zed !-A.~ Yes, sir; it may be
owing .also,, io. some, de,gree,to ,t·be unwUlia,goess of the feminine portion
O'f the, 't rade to take,·t b.ose determined an,d ,d ecisive measures to procure
an advance th.a't. the ,·ale portion cl.o take,1 B ,owev -r , that, ,o ·course, i.s,
one of'the elem,e nts 'i'n o,rg ·'D.-zation..
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B y .1ur.
· EO'RGE:

Q. Is i.-t uot o-w:ing a great ,deal to the helpless eondi.tion 0 f ''the.w-omen
who have ·to reso:rt. to 'th.at, bosfoess 1-A. U·odoobtedly i"t ia.
~ y- t-,'1..., c·-.H
B
Q. A .t that rate, ·what ,can an ordinary fema]e eompos,itor make per.
diem 1-A. Tbe,re 'is a very great diifere-noo in tb,e eapaeity of ,eo.mpos~
1tors. On an verag,e, I should sa_y-1 cannot speak from acc;u rate
koowledg·e•, but I should say, so far .a s my observati-on goes-that
:m ost of' them make on an ave.ra~e ~om 15 to 17 a week., It is no·t
unusual for them to .make 19., and in s.ome offices in the ciliea expe,r t
fem,a le compositors are, em.ployed by the honr at 20 ce·n,t e per ·hour,,
workin..g generally eigh't hours a day., Tbeir average wage depends
also, to some ,tixtent1J1npo.n the dHfer,ent,· ·. inds, of workt ,a nd th.e special..
tles of th,e office w'h eie. they' a ·.-. ,empl_o,yed,, T.b~s, if the office prints
chiefly la .boo.k s the ,a verage rate will be lo,w, because that w·o rk in
ge~eral is unremunerativ ' . The ehie~' part. of ~ -text of Jaw books,.
owin.g to the numb . r ,o:f uot,es ,and of' citation, lJJ g,en.e·rally· iD .s uch a
fo-rm that it is a.Jm.r.s,t 1mposs-ible ·f or the compositor to-make, anything·
·uke a reasonable day's :pay. If the offiee or :firm does chiefly the re..
,ports of eases o,r ,Jawye.rs' brie:fs1 the con.dition.s, are reversed, because
tha,t ki.n d of work aboouds, in what ·we call "fa.t "-blank mpaees t·h at ca.n
easily be-pat in a.nd -that ,a re paid fo · at the. ,same, rate as letten and
linea-of typei. O·f course poetical works are .aJ.so " fat," .a nd w·,e ti.ud it
to be one 0.f the chief causes of oomplalnt in our aocieties that it is
customary foT the foreman to discriminate and to give t.o the female
eompo,s itor the .u fattes,t » portion of the work. In estimating u·pt>n this,
work th,e empl0;yer freq,-11en,t ly takes it, at a lower ,p,r lee, ·ooeause he1
knows that he oaf! get it done by female oompositors, and be can reek.on
upon tJlat rate of' wage,~ Aud owin.g to this, we ar-e oftentimes oom
pelled to pu·t up ~th the wor.,· t kind of work, and thus th e principle
of' our seale of pri.ce · ia completel.y igoored,,
·
B.y, ·-.· r~ GE·O BGE ..
Q. Is there a-n3 tllin_g furtber tha - ,you. d,es·ire to, state in reference to
the, condition ,of :vonr _trade t-A.. l hav,e stated, I believe, all that
OOC,u rs to m1y min.d at the preseut time.,
Q.. Yon have not nswered as 1111:r as I s,hould like- to have you an•
ewe:r in re,g ard 't o, tb,e social 0on.dition o-f your craft. .: -re the ,soei:al
reht,t ions, of tbe p·r ioters m.o stls among _bemselv-es or do they extentl to
other clas,·. es f~A., To some e1.·tent, ·o oth; bu:t I suppose the ·m ajo·r ity
of the social. acquaintance~ and intimaci,e s of p.r inters s.nd 'their families
. a.mo.ng the.mseI ves or am.oog t-h. ose w h o work. 1n
- trad_e-.s, ,o orrespon d 11,
iog to tbeirs. Tbe s-k illed ·t rades and the various ·miscellaneous. -ooe11~
patioos, .a nd t.he people em·ployed in m,e m'lutile bus'in.e ss in ·-be smaller
d,e·p artments of it ·v ers often ·m in_g le to.g etbe.r by .m eans o-f their fr-ater.
nal soei-eti.es,. and in tha't , mainner become ao.qoa1nted ; bot it ia not ·pos1

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circle..s of a.cq11ai.o-tanee, thettfo~, are g:en erally small.
~ What,1s the nat·u ~ ~~. ·t he~ _1&0eial mteroounre, so .f ar aa it_exis~
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1

yo·u meant
- lir. GEORGE.. Ye,s ; alt~ A" Th.e D'D'm amed printer,fin~,a,large share
o,f bis soo.ial ·.·njoyment a,mong· members of his o,wn tr,a de,, so far as he
:m:e ets or 1ningl.es a.t all ·w ith hi_s ~ell,ow-me·o i~ the capacity of a social
be·i og _ It_ia •eust~f!Ia_~y _fo~ aJittle ,g roup ,o f fr!e · d,s, to _form something
c,f e.otene or ao informal club and atte·nd places of amusement to-ge.t:ber~ The p~i.n ters p~tronize. the tbeater,, I th~J:!.k, to a ,c onsiderable
m:te·u t, Dllln,: _of tbem at J,eas~ 0
_a w,eek_; a-o~
d if ,3 man ~OD,J 18.. ,a
·f laterual soc1,e t,y of any· desenptio,n he of ,c ourse at'ten,d s t e festiv,1t1ea,
the '" ,sooiable;s,"_or d3=nces t'bait ar~ organized by the ,fH>ci,~iy.. .B ut,he
bas a very small l'isiting list outsilde of th.e two, so11reea I have n:am.e d.

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B ,e 'is gen,e rally a reader-almost universally, I think:- a·u d wile.r e po ~
rai'ble be patronizes the library and readin1g. . room to a, considerable de-•
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- e va~ons
· ,.,
-.· ,r ·10·
"' t1
gree-. Th
_ ' ~ rea d 1ng-·r ooms,.and
,· '. ·tb
p,I, aces proVI"ded
· .. :" fo
wd!etua
gratitlcation are tak,en _a~vantage of, I think, by a larger percentage o,f
printers than of those belonging to any other trade~ Th.e nature. of 'bis
.. gives
.
- •· · ,a- ·t'. as
· te··._f1or 'k n·• ow led
DIess 'PreV't!,D'te d·.
pu.Fsu1t,
t.&e pnnter
.: ~_g,e, an d 111
b;y iote·m perate ·abits, or onns:ual social conditions :be, pursues inlo,r matio-n through all availa.bJe channels as far as he can conveniently and
con is,ten-t·1y· with his p~yideal comfort, ao,d bis com·mand ,o f' time~ I
. . 1say,
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thj.o g leo;v•es the ·b ody and 'mio.d in a,,con.d·itioo.of lassit .de, s.o,that after
:a day's or a i\g ht's wor · i.t is ,diffl.eult, u.nless t.be i:ndi1 idual pot.i&esses
extraonlinary_stamina, ~o do a, ,~ eat d.ea11n tb.e way·of aequiring knowl•
edge. Thero is a peculiar monotony in,m.d.e nt npo,n setting_ type th.at 'I.
4o not know has. ita exact eq.u i valent in an,y ·0th.er trade. That feeli11 g·,
·from lf!Y own obae.r vatio and from the r-eports 'th.at .I ba,ve read, par·t icularly that of' the .B ritish commission whic·h. was appointed some
yeam ago to investigate into tbe .causes of the social discomfort and the
d,e gree t.o wbi,c h tbe-nature of the. occupation in.ffnenced the m,e mben
ot a t!'ade,, exis'ta largely ,a·mong printers, .a.n~ the de~ after a, d•y's
·w or~ 1s rather for some amusem,e nt, something th . t will not p :u t. an,J
~train upon the acqu.1ri.ng faenltie a., On the otber hand, a man with a
family of course finds tha·t solace in h:is family which ':the nnm rried
ma,n is deprivetl of and, fro·m ·t he ·n ature of· his s.urroundi.n gs, cannot]
have. 'lhis 10 man.y instances ,goes forthe,r t.h an anything else to alle~
viute the trials .anti tribnlatioos of the · orld; ·b ut or ·course those. trials
are a,g gmvated when miafo•r tone ov:e-rtakes ·the man and sickness and
death co,me into tb.e fam:11\y circl,e , not only injuring hlDl io his aftoo.tions,
b,nt caasing grea·t discomfort. ftom th,e ioad,eq,u ate means a-t his oommaud to meetthe necessary ex.p enses of he oomin.g· in and ·the going
o~t o.f lit1 ·. The marri.e d man!, tbe man of fa.mil.Y, h~s O·f course 't be
:advan.~ ges, of ,social •eujo,ym.ents which tbe nn·mamecl ,man does no-t
ge·n eraUy have, because e has a home where he can .r etnrn any social
priv1leges. that ma.y, be offered him by others, and tberefore is n.o t ,oon..
tinu.a lly a d.e btor io. tbe. social balaoee aecoont ..
. The C·11.Al.BMAN •. I 'w ould like- to call your, attenti9n to a ·remark.
that.we often hear made, that, as a ruJ,e,. people who, liv,e by ordinary
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48:

RELATI0~'1'8 'BETWEEN L!BOB .AND CAPITA.L..

emptoym,e·n.t s, ase.um.i'ng~ tbe 1·es.pon.ubi1iti.e s of mar:ried life, .are able,
to eop_p ort t'bem,selves by the joint efforts. of tile two as w,e ll .as or'
-be ter than if they remained si .gle; that mo.s,t unmanied young men
earn ,e nough to support families, and that, failing tu marry,,the eurp!us,
wuieh would otherwise. go to the support of ·t he family, is expended or
'f:ritt ·r ed away in amasemen·t s, frivolities, or indulgences.; so ·that after
all the married life is as econom·icat as,an._v ,oth.e.r, if' ·n ot the moat eoo.
·no-mica! m.ode of ~Jving. Yf?lt have. und.onbted1,y heanl. that sogge.stio•D
m.a.n,y timest an,d I ,sbonld like to ·oo,,.e.your viel\·s in regard to ·it, based
upon your ,own obser·vation•
.The WITNESS. I thin·k that ,depend& so m.oe:h upon the individuality
oftbe person in ,e ach ,e ase that it-wonld be v,e ry· hard w. strike an average or to make any state·m ent wh'ich would apply generally·. We can
draw 'the picture o,f the individual w·hose interests might be advanced
'b_Y mu.r1age,
,.,
•;.h_. ._ s,.._
,,... ..~hj.,ao
.
a man w1,.;•
~ vng d'
.· ...om.es.,1,c
~·~ etro
· ... ng h o,me p,roo1·lVlties, ·with.·fondness.for cbil.dren--■4l man.who,has in general the,faculties
.for, the enj-oymen.t of home life, and I t 'b ink th.at _a s a ·m le_eu,ch. a ·man
would ·oo. better off if_he ,d id marry and make a ho,me of' his own, beca.use tbe ,same social facult . . · that :tlnds its _g m't ifleation in the hom.e1 if
it has no- .~eaus of exe~ising itaell: tbere, ie apt ~ seek social__ enjoy.
ment that is not eonduc1v·e. to the man's welfl . re. Bi1.t I can safe~v Y!Y
that,. so,·f ar as we look_.at th.e matter from. a, financial. standpoin·t.
•· t·-1ng, or work~1ng 10
.. any meco:
1..
~·
1n_an working a:t pnn.'
ameaI oeenpa~on,
who desires to beeome w1e altby, or ·who even sets befo,r e himself as.th.e aim
and object o,f his exi~tenee the gaining of a competenee no man who

no

eotertain,s those pred'ileo:· i0Ds bould marry; because in ·t he ·preaen.t
eondition of soeiet71 I think it, is JD the, ?:Mims of improbability; ·n ot to
1

say impossibilit~y, for tb,e, ·ma.m ed mechanic to do more at ·b est than to
su.p port bis. wife an,d bis. little famil.y in.the m,ost e,rd.in,arily oomfortable
manner, an,d even tbat :h.e can. do only npon contlitiou. tliat no ·mi fortnn-e befall him. That, is a social qn,estion. w~'ieh lies p,robab1y a little
out of the ra~ge of the observ~tion of most-of us, bot.of coarse we.form
our ,o pinions. regarding itl and I ftod the view . hav,e ,&ta~,e d to be oom.mon a.mo-og y·o ung· men in. the trade-t'he view t-ba;t they eann.ot in
justice to,their probable posterity take upon themselves the responsi
bilities of' a family.
Tbe OHAIKlllN. A. c-0,ndition of society which mak.es. it eoonomi,eally·
wrong for men to marry 1e of course one reqn·i ring · ttention.. YO·D
have studied the p·roblem, and. you. thiuk that that ,oondition of thi·nga
exists, &o far .a s regar,d s the moo.hanieal. trades,. inelndin ·,_ your own.
o,r·eoarse, then, the remedy foT this, ·t he way ont. of t'he difficulty, 'is
what you thinking me · e,n gaged in. those ~upations have been -ohiefl,ysee~ing. No·w what is ronr id~a ~ ~o_t'he. best waty of patudng from. ·the
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cood.i.tion of the wa,ge-laborer to the higher aud 1.ette.r eondition where
a mau is, independe.n·t und m. y •e stabUsh a family and obtain 10 this
~ ~
.. p-roper enJo
~
"W~Y w h at pertain.
- to its
m•ents ',:
The WITNESS. Well, sir, ·e are ,s ensible~tha,t any pr.o gress so -'1road
and d,ee·p:reae.hing .as that to w·hieh yon. refer most be a matter of long

-~ rt an.d much time,, and therefo!e ~or 4:-u~,e avor has been d.e voted for
t e, · ,ost part to del.ising means to alleViate some of the present most
ex.treme grie-ranees under which the wurkiog· ,classes labor.. I ,s hollld
p~fe~ to giv,e ·my vi-ew,s at some forther length regarding the condition
of otber branches of ·the iodustr.1es of N ,e w England before ,g oing into
the. q,ttestion of remedie -, for I think t~at., in order to .b ave .a clearer
oonooption of what we need, a m.ore vivi,d pictnre of tilings as they

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

RE'L ATIO~S. BET

,ex1 ,t i ., required~

,49

EEN LABOR AND CAPITAL

·w ·. printers

.are bnt ·n. sma]l element in the i dn~ ··

tries of' N·ew Engla:ud,
~
.
..
__
The OB..llBMAN .. If'you prefer to w&1v,e t.be snbJecto . rem ::di · ·. nov; I
am conten.t; but of course right at tba..· ·p o·ut is ·where our legislatixe
acti.on most eom.mence.
· The ;•{1TN'E SS.. Oh, 3 es; and I (le~rir, to RJlea ~ on tlint point later~
T'be CH 1 ·MA:. •..A .' to t'he atr tud couditio1 · of affair,s and th e, ils
that no,w de,m antl. med.Y t l\\,e wish ,,-on to go in:ro tho.~ snbjects as fully
a 3ou can.

Bv
.., Ir. GEOllGE .:

-

Q. 1>0n this :obj ct ,of the ,t;oeia~. J~rivilct,; · . and advantag,e s of_the
print. rs ~yon. b.a ve not aus.we·r ed. as ful.ly as I d . sire to h ~ _,..e you ans vre.r,,
I want to ,c all y,our attention to c -r~ain points and ~f"Oll Dlay an .· wer g., 1 ,
,emll,y ·ith reference to
the working ·p_eople o1 whom yon hav,e kno\,·led.ge. I \\·.a1 t yo1:1 to tell us wha.t ~-r e t'be op1>0rtuDiti · . 0.f .a.ssGC1atiou
betw·e en the·la bo~er~ a-nd ·t he n~n•laborer.s... l · the ,e any.· barn,e r betwe·e n
them f Is social. inter.course nee b . twe n the labo·r er and 'tbecapitaUst
or other uou~lahorers t-A .. '\ · here th ·. ·r e i auy such in.biroonr,s e it is 1he
exeept"on, not the rule. SJle.a:kiog ior·ther upon the social question, I
find it to be a peculiar feature of the tiu,e, es.p eoiaHy in : _e · · Engla.1u·1, •
tha·t w a~e rapid1) de,"e op.ir1g classes in soci'ety as well as :in the in ..
dustrial wor1d an.d that these classes are beeoming o,re and moie fix •tl
iu the ·p articular positions tha.'t the .· ,elai' in the social life of t-be coontr.J .
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being erected k1gl1er and higb.:.r. Tbe 0 ·1 d New En.g land
•i,d ea of the :n obility of labor i - fast passing aw,a:y.
· ·e have _n1o·o g our
man.u.fact4urers, in the majo,r ity of cases, an arist,oor.ae,y no less ri,gid.in .its
,d emands for ,1 hat it,d,e em .· to be ita ,d oe than, so a-r a.a.I am able ·t o le. r·n,,
is the ari ·tocracy of a.ny· o,the countey. I wo·n ld state B,till forth.e r in
this oon11ection, withont enterio.g· into any , ·i ew o.f the ease from. a tbeo·1ogi~ 1 :t and.point, th~·t th . chn~ch in New Eug]and .i o olden times was
·t he erne1ble that fused. · he diiferent oo:o stitnent parta of soo1ety, .a nd t,o.
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day in som:e o · ·t he .mall.er places it stiJl co·o tinnes. to a ce.r tain extent

t-he same instrum,e nt; but it is ra.pidl3 . along with.theo,tbe·r facwrs,tba·t

I hav•e, menti.ooed, losing · ba pecubarrty.. This ma:, he in som·e degree
attribut · ble to t·h e fact that fre ·. t:hlukjng is ·b · eoming more and more
the cbaracteri . tic o.f' the New England meebani.e"
_ Q. Do .y ou ean t'bat be . thinking is the cause ,o f the cbur,c h l.osi:n.g·
its ,peculiar ioluenee, or that tt is ·the result!-A . We11, bet.h. It is.
the cause,_perhaps, in a very s.m all minority of case&..
he meehani,e,
does not become an ac.ti·ve member ,o f eh.ureh societies no .. ·..a-dayr.·,~
T hoee aocie.tJes,. a.s a rule, are ,composed largely of t .e ,f ; minine part- of·
the lahorjng I>eople, ~ _far as they are compm1ed of· laboring·poo·ple at,
all, and the mecbanichhniself rema1.ns aloof ,d, mi . ·.. ··. thatopportu -·i:t y
of oo~ing in cootaet-a very limited one at pre ·.. ··n t-with his emplo1er
or others,of · h.e non-produc.wg etas.· •
Q~ · ·.·. by does he refrain fr-om going to. eb.nrch !-A. There aga-1n. we
go perh.aps a little ,outside of t'lle soope of this lDt'estipt ou, but I bra,~e
no objectioh to gil""in,. my indt· idual opinion.. I think it t · 'b ecause the
~ee,han!c finds a subs.titute for the rebgions idea _ba,t hL fo.refa.tbe.n
had, and gratifies tbe craving whi.c:h •e very·i.otelligen't being h.aa for so.m e
idea! r0f thought aind .actio11, -if he is a tbioking maH, _b,y ·turoin g his at.
teut1on to t~•e remedying of sooial 6\"ils, t,o the uplil·t i g· ,o f hie own
·~ la~ .: ind o·~ those hen . ath. him,. ·p e,h.a·p s, and _to the rigbti_o g of tbe in~
JHbt1ce w.bicb i.. sn ·. taiued bv the w·orkin.,g· 11eople and which is fhe re..
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suit
inany soci,al l..r111ditionij, aud ·iuflne,races,. Aud this ·re~ult its. :1·tn1duced wu liis n,ind 'to , ~.nne ex.t nt hr his iuabihtJ' to undei•,i jfaud "··l1 _\
the the .r~r that he it1 taught in the churches p,r oduoes the practi~e t'hitt
he· eet; ,a.mou.g '•b.ureh mem·h er ·.
Q . You say that. tlu! tli . ·ory of the ,c hurc'h is ioUowed b3·· a practice to
\\~· icu he caH g1,.u .uo·a-s sent-that thepr,1,cticc ,gives the lie, a11parent1~~,
to th th 01 y .; tllat tbi~. Jead.?:S, ·h hn t:o ~jeet fh: theory a d to 1ntmHc~
J··it · ou·· mueb ref~reutc to theories, th · ameliorati'o.n oft :· e co11dition of
bi~ :~"lhiw~weu ; and bat th.at objeet b com to ni:m a tn1bstitut .· or
th .· tl.J ·.·o nes and tbc d.igcus :1ous of tlu?- eb ureb. l . tba't your idea ·~
.A.~ Tla,.tt ib JJartially n1.y idea. i mig.b t qnalif3 it bJ aying that this,
of cour~c, i ·_ :not un1te-1~an~~ tn1e of th ,, e;hurc· ;
. e see.s iu some insta.nc ~s very ,c bar1table, IJ um.a u , and. merciful J>OOJJ,lc, and, iu fact, i&
la 1~ge el~m.e nt of that klud of JM!o.1,le, in the ehu.1.-cbes.; bn t be also fin.4 ,H
tl1~1.t 1natJ1y ,c burc·h men1beJ0 · tak.e ,ad1,.antage of' tbe peeu1ia · or:ganization of the church to ad,·a.11- ~e their ow·n selfish inter st" and lJelo,JJg to
the cb u rch not on a.cc·o unt of any belie:f in it or auy ·10·\"·e of the f11.u.damco,h1l J)riocipJes, of m1oraJit:Y or of the doot.rin ·· ·. taugbt by the teat1hem
• of :r eligion.. It i's not the s11irit of nligion that t'be wo kin12)Dan objects
to; be rather stri ,.·e s for that ;, ·b ut it i,s ratb.e ' · the eceles1 sticism and tbie
dogm ~1tb;m of ·_ornc ot th· · uhu1.•,e·h u1.e1n·~ rs aju d t 'h e hypoci•~,~,~of 9thers,
ArJd as it i~ impo ·sible for we to · uter here into an_.y· theological ques•
1t ions (aud I sbould b · uu
Ii n.g to do it if it ,ver ·pos.si bl,e) I say· s,i .m,p l :r
tlurt that f;Ond.it.ion of thi.D, / e·xis'ts; vrh3· it exists we,
·1ea·ve to tbe
l . ad~ ·r ,~ of thoug·b t on such .· o ~jects to find ,o ut,t
Q.. '1 hat 00•11 ,Jition of t b iug,~ is s·impl,, a fact that you i fer tu here
,ind 1nent.1ou a~. the great. reaso11 ·, thy t'he. thinking mecha:n_ic of the
i·,-resti11t d.a ·,· alJ~ta.ins f1•fln11 ,e huttl1 nH~uib .·1 ijbip and us .. oeiatio:u. t-A.
"o, sir: I ~f",c i a,s ou1,~011.e of tbe rea.~ouM. Then'". are many other
1t. :, t~o11s-nnt11)· . Oue of tb ·~ oth ·r
a~ons ·Lnay be bis inability, i.f I e.
lias a tlunHJ,, l'O ,corue u11•to the ocial reqni~ment.s of churc~ membe,r.tdri p, in , h . ss and in ~ontl'ibotiou to the various objects that t,b:e cbureh
c n r,·1it ti a l.ou g \\ Hb it; hi fi iu abHi.ty to me :t th._de.m and upon bis, porMo
tl1 ,i1t the , euting of a eat iu many of our ,c hnreh ediBoos ,vou1d mak,c~
·. tind~ too that th·Js subject luu,; ,e uother 11ha. e, -that v.:e bave bad ot·
lat yea rs and is tUl ba 1te au incr,e asi ug rn t io uf cbureh soolet.i.·s .,oow1>0Sefl
alr11 st~ · .~lnfld ,e ly of tb · ari~t,o ~i·a.cf; tbat the church ,ed.itioos a;-re becomuin.r.: ~niother·,symbol o.f that ))ecuUarit,~or1 wbic'h 1 M:'',c aireoo,1~r ,
m;1 r·ketl as , · }l oduc .· of the tir11e, 't be di,~·i siou uf our peo.t)le into nit 1·ke1l
claljse~. TJ1i . I lihould qua]if\" h> sa~·iug tbat it ~ s l.e ,s, obser,; a'b le· in
the maU ·r l)laces aud i~, u1ore- e l)rodnct of the ,e ii iJ.i'za.'t iou or the UH~
<~i,,.-Uizatiou of the ,eiti.es.. I am. 1iot so famdia1 wi.th rural 'life ns I ,a h'I
th etro110U I.au,. yet I lt.a.Yt1' ,:,.uffi.cient kno,rlt!dge 'b y l' [ soual ,expe1ri.
en<:e in th snutU ,r plac ,/ to ~nable, me to s11ea.k wit.b reg · rd -to, -rbe1n
to so1ue e·xt nt, and I find. that w·he :· ·there ls but, one chureh society
tbl:: n1eeha1 ics, or the people wo-,·k.'"0ig· 111 the mills refra-"in to
·r y l"' rgc
extent front taking 1•art in th. choreh . I belie·v,e t.hat our ,eell-k.nown ltID~
ttu:or,, · Jr . Jo _eph Cook . Las embodied that fact in a very b:rief sent ·. net~
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that lll8~r p~·rhaps.'be exa,:geratetl in it.t intensity.. Speaking of tbi,s ·, ,er,~

thingaboutv.~bich I haYe b :- o talk:.ing, h :isa~;=s th · 1uany,ot"theme<uu\hiCN
aod mill 01,er9 tors of :S e·w E1· .· .rland b a,, ,
~id .at suel1 a poi ut '' th~ t
the,r lu1.te 'the ,--erJ s;l,ado,r or the teeJ.)le u1ion tla . · .· dnst of 't he ,~inago
str·ct~t ..r He ·s au ort hot.lox c1·· l'g\"lUan bi w1s t1f and of course he tlOOf-i
no 5J)OOk f1~om the ·. .- otkint,·1neu. =s 11ohl'i of' Yi,e·w~ I do HO't . l h to ,lo
the iuj1 ~ -i ~ of attri.bu.ti.ug to th .· clnrtrches .a t la1·ge, o . to the intent of
the •· ·•inoe111~ and e,on.si ·~tent iut-·1nbers of ·he chu·r cbes, auy of thes 11 1~ults.,

a.n·i"

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h ~cau.-se ,ve fi.nd the -c hurch one of tbe gmat instrumeuts,, .in many
localitie ·, of all.e Yiating d.is.tttss and mme,dy.ing a~ far as 1•0 , :-ible th-~
.~uWe-ri~s of :i odi \ idual8, tboogh its . ·ork is, neeessarily Jimi.tetl and

iucom.plete,.
By tbe CB -· .mx.- N:
t~:~ Yon feel, as.I un.d .· rst.and .:ron, that the '\vorship o.f God ·bas eeased.
ttl let"-el t-he diistinctions .runou g m.en !-- A. Yes, ·ir; i.t hatS eea.ed to level
·ti.I dist1octions.. I v.;onl-d not sa-y , however, ·t h ·_t the worship, of' God

lu1g. do e it.
Q. Well, tb . assn.m ed ·w orship,. . . . . . ··... Y,e s; th·_-. assumed ,vorshi11~
llr GEoKG·E. : it suits. yon no·w to ,go, iuto au accoun·t of ·the 4;0-0.litu)n of the other laborers :10 . . as ·! :bu.setts, I win ,. _ k you i ome qu stioos on that subject.
Tb-e Wl~NESS~ ·T b · coud.1tion oftbe
other
. .-kil.led
t.rade.~doesn-ot
arv
.
IH.l•rceptibly, ,_ . o far as I know, fro:m. tl1a·t of the prioting trade, with the
. xe·· ptiou•: resulting from th . peculiariti,e,s o · that trad,e whi-ch I have
weutioned, th peculiarity O•f the employm.e nt of fem.ale labor in. the ,o oin1110~ing..room, an~ the n.nh.,e.althynee · ·the wo.rk·, and especially the n.i,ght"'
·w orki The condition of' the ,carpeut.er, th·:· painter, the plumber, or _h._
1nat~l1iui,g t does not va::ry 1nateriall.,y from the oo,ndi.tion of the, print-ea:
as I ha,"'e d ,serib -d i , -·•· s to- the agii.c oltoral oommnni.t_y., we ba:t"e ~1
num.erous clas . o'f la •_. ore, ··. engaged in agricnltnral occupation The
sinall farmers fo·rni- h a,lar1te and im (lOrta:nt eJe·men t iu all our con.s ·dera.
t ion ., Tbe -o ld-ti.m fhrmto.g hais been super,_-eded, ·-s peeial·t~ in the
Yi,einity of the towns, b,, g:rrde.n farming, whi,e h g.iv,es e·m1l105·'D1eut to a.
larg • ·o umlJ .· r · of day laborers ~ind to tl1e o . De ·• · o-f tbe land!! The con◄li I ion o.f' t.lleae pen:1>le and of the m-e11 u ·_ on the larg ·r fa-rm.. •.· so far at,
a.in able to ascertain and b.a.,. .e seen, 1s on _ that dHfE".rs materi· IIJ" from
th.at of tb : - eehauies in towns and eities in. ma113- resiieet ... The laborer
011 the farm ·ba,ve morie of the natural ad,. . an.tages of fre.s:.b .air, a hea.lt-bier
nceupa.t'ion,. and, speaking generally,,_g t~ater opportuuitie-s for i.udepend ..
nee. T .he wages. ·i:~aiid agri,c -nltnral laborert1. in Ma ,··._ ·,chusetts is set
for It 1u. tbe report of the Ma . . acb. s .•.tts · ttrean of Lab,o r · •ta-tistics.,
·,,rber-e it apJtea:rs -that in 1881 -be av : rage: wages paid was $1,8, a m.ontb
wrtb ooard i(l-l.00 .- w . :k), ·OF $1.37 a da.y withont board
. ~ • i: general rnle th.e _
yonng· m H of :N,ew En ""laocl seek the cities or -t 1 ,e West. The farm1offei·s. , mall i.ndn,cement , unle .. th · situat1o·n 1~
snpenor, he soH exceptionally fer In·, a.nd t'be. ~ ooial ad vanta,geN
of t be ·i ndiYidnal pecul'iarly great, Tbns the labo . · ,s are, as a g,eneral
role, foreign irr,.m igrants from O·t h ·r countriesi- - tbe. C . uadian -or tbe
Hiberninn-and th ·. social enjoyments and 01,portuni'ties ~ re of course
,-er,;r. l1m.ited, whUe the h.o urs of I.a 1,or are ·v ery long.. It is th.e enstom
of most of the New En:gla-od fa·rm.ers, I ·be·liove, to work from Sllnrise .in
so.mm . r.time to ,suiuset, or e .· en Jat. )r. T:h e nature of fhe soil is. snc·h
1bat ·i t is a trad.ition among ~ ew England farmers. that hard work i ·
one of·the gos.pet n,eeessities of life1
The CnaJR -· ·N. Fr-on1 _
, ..our stat,ements I shottld iot't.r· ·tb:at there has
l~en some improt" ineut 8inee I was .a ·oo.f. T'bey u~.- - ;t to wor - then
fl..om thre . o'clock in tht' u•orniog 11n1til n·i ne o'•c,l oek ai 1dgbt.
The _Wt-T--Ess. There ha . been impriovem.eut, Im many I laces near
tlJe ci-tie they do not feel inc1i-ued t,o wor - so long· b.ours, a.od on 1an). f tbe _g arden .f ar.m s. ten hours i· · established as a. daJ~'s . ork, except
tbat ht ma;rket time it is. sometime.~' -necessary to work a-t night to pre..
)'l~t"e the products for fhe, mark,e t ne t morning.. Bot in a. m1
aJori. y of
-c~1iie . a·nd on a majorit,.. of ·· be farms in New England loug hours- are
. ti 11 the role .
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52

BELA.TIONS B.E 'rWEEN LABOR AND C. ·PITA:L.
1

Q. You hav•e :no•t sa;icl an1·tb1n.g about ?lh··•o. the meals are taken.A. In t'be bar-resting: sea.sou, in lbay.. makingtim.,e.a-n•d inh.arvee1~, steady
~1 ...
k- · nece·s ary,anu1t1s,
conti ·· u,o us ·w or_·1·.
t;b·ecu ·.tom'to have t b e bi•.. re&k· 1

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fast at an. early _boor·a-nd to perform t'be c-hores before bmakfa&,' l Break-'\,.
t· may
·· ·. . b· e· · JI.~
~ncl ) ~ }ffll'
· h a-p·
• or' el
-·o·.1.c-.•··k. ~
.ill,~ ... ·:
_·s,a. t· ,.1.x
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Tl1 ·. · fi-·,· ·1. t:1.

. o/Wl!k
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1·s th· en
·. ,·.a.
·. ·k.en
··
_

u11, and genera.Hy a Ion.chi" p,rovid.ed at haJf:past nine or ten o'clock

and dinner a.t noon, or bet\,;eeu tvrelv•e an<1 one o!c1.ock. A fol' · hour is.
rarel.Y allotted for the middav· nr.1ea1t, an.d ·the time tak,e n is no lo-ng .·r·

than is abBtllntely nece . sar_. ; as tbe cir-curnstan'tes co1umonly de:mant'l
1.

In. fbe .a ft .1noon the ,s bpper is ·r eady about five o'clock. and the
clay' ,· work is 6.nis·hed b~r st nset, or balf pa :t ~· , .,-en or eigbt dcloo.k, a n1l
the pby- - l,oal ,e xertion of tbe da~f :so exhausts the labore.r t.hat he ·s. gen•erally only too ,g lad to 1S eek a 11ight's res,t ,as soon as possible,. In other
season·.. of' the year the work i ·_· no·t so a;rduous, b11t very littl,e , time iR
g:iv·en totheagricnlturallaborerforan·: me~tal occupation; ·be 'has \ ,er:-·
te.w opportuniti · s or a.d ,~antag,e s, beyontl his ,o wn appl'icat1on to any
books that 'h e m.a;y bap,11en or eh,oose to ha;ve, nnd i is, a \ eirJ · raM ex c · ption .. hen he does not re ·.ain a farm laborer until h · ·. sa,. es fro:m his
sea · ty ,e arniog,s enough tia, taike cbar.g e of a lit ]e ground h ·i mself. S,uch
cases d.o occur, 'b ut,in ver3r .many instances, so far as my· personal ob~
serv·a tion extends, men e · ga,ged. ·n that occupation eontinne the sa1ue
routine Jear aft·· 1 ,year~
The gi-'eat and ·distincti,.· e feature of our ·,· ·ew Eoglaud industries i~,.
of' ooorise,, ·t be 1nanufa.ctnre o:f cott.ou, woolen,. aud~ta~t'ile fabrieJJ in 'tbt,
dift'erent seciions of that ,~untry. It is there tha·t ,ve see presented
hai.te.

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more :forcibly than anywhere else the c-0uditio.n of' a.ffl :i n. that ·w e . oo.k

r•elief from.. It is tbe"te t.hat ·w · ·. .e more. clear·Jy· ·t han elsew·bere tho
dangers tbat tbre te . soeiet) at Ia·rge in the time to ,c o.m e; th.at we see
mor •. clearly· the 0onditi.ons.which willl prO(luce a enfeebled and ~nferior
:mee-.a,a ~he mllls of England have produced an inferior raee among
the ope1"8ti vtis there i.n some lOO&lities. The condi.t1on of Jife amoo " .
the operativ·es i.1u the 'textile. industries is on a much low · r· plane as re ..
gard1s the satisf1 ing of ma.o'··• na.-toral reqolrieme,ots. an.d tbe pursnit of
h.ap piness th.au -in the skille·. re d ;'~· This is necessariL" so perbaps11
Wh.e n I spe' k of··'·' operatives" I ·w i ,b to be llD•d er,s tood a. speaking of'
those ,employed in any of the brancb."8 of te.x·tile maoofactnres. Tbey
have to enc.~unter difficnlties,, re triotious, and privations that ,·p erha:p s,
ca·n only he equaled in th.is ,countr~y by th.ose of some of the laborers 110 .
~e n1ining reg'ion.s,. and tbe 'bardeb'ips of their ooud1tion. ?re not prob~
ably· mafle ·1ess, strikin" by c oo .. ·parison with the old sla,.. e,_ l lx,,r of
the 18 00th. I am. sorry 'to disag.ree with the 1Senator from Massacbt1-•
1'

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setts, (" , r .. Daw,es)i as to the condition of the. :m ill operati . e " l .m ay

state here, in order to give force 'to what I say., that, ·ooi·o g .'d eeply interested in t'he subj oot, [ ·t,o ok th.e oppo.rtuu.i ty (as my trade did not, give
it m~) ,of ·p ur1sui:og an oecopatio:n tha;t t ·rew me iu oontaet ·w ith "tbose
people for the space of over a year.,.·t hat I liv.ed in their mi.dstin various.
p,laooe, and. o-bserT,ed. their manner of e,xis.ten,oo, tbei:r amusements a··.
they w,ere called, and the social condi.tious th · ·t had been p•ooduced by
tbe sys.teto of corpora_tioo ma~ufa-ctn·ring, .a nd I a.m sorry to ,~ y that tbefe·
is room for all the talent and en.e~gy 'that can be. employed in bettering
their condi.ti•o o, aud to•r all the a-ssis:tance that J.egisla.ti,on can po :.· ·.ibly
gi .· e th.em.~ Tbe.,oondttion of M · · aeb.nsetts is, I think, better ·than that
o.f mos.t of t~e oth ~r New· England States,, es.pecially those, engaged iu
man.ofactnrin.g to anv great e-· te · t. Tbe hours of work in lilassae·husetts are sho:rter than u1. the ot·her iSta:tes,
his is owiog partly to tile
per, ·ey~·ri.u g ,e:ffort s of a few men. w l10 were in te1-ested in. the teu,. bon r
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.5a

BE,L A.T JON·S BET'WEEN LABO'B ..&:ND CAPITAL~

Dl0\1
··ement-. and part.JJa 'to th.e assistauee given 'l lS by the .lct.w .. making
power. ·i. · enforcing the ten.-,·hour law~ We were noaible to eDforce 'it
1-11·a o-·p.·1
-=-. ' . 1
"'n1"'o·n .·t b·e:·, ·nn1"Te·~ ~-1 1a·wf W'8 '8~- sufll
..j,e,nt;·J y aro
·.·. 0°~"'1 to· n'"i"'m~
00
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preJ1end the, n.e eessity of its ,e nforcement; bot at the prese,n t time I am
hai~PY to say that we aoo abl · to enforce its pro¥isionis when we disco,.·e.r any trespass, OH the rights of tbe 1,eopl · . in this respect,. and I was
a. sured b,y the ,ehi.,e f of the deteeti,·e bureau in Boston that he would be·
oulJ· too g·lad of .auy· opJKJrtunit~y that m.itl'ht be given bi_m to catrry out
tl1e Jtrol isious of tl.1e la.w Tbe hours of labor in · assachu•;·:tts are te·o
per duy-six.ty p r w,e -k, tbe !aw .reads:~ In the otber ·.-._ tates 011 or two
hours per day are ad.detl. ·T he 01·.·•- ativ·es. of assacbus,e tts, howe er,,
,vork long, r ·bou:r.s t.ha · he E ·gbsb, operati ·es1 and they receive CY . u
nom.iually but a trifle more ·w ag :s, I hav·e .some comparative tables
·t hat nuty be of i.ute·rest to, th ~ com·mit-tee, but I presume theJ ha ·e
alrradJl been pre~ented to Congr · ss;o Tbe ta'b les t.a{ken ·ri· o · · the consular 1-■ep,ort O'f Albe1··. D;o Shaw.;, United States consul: at -~·lancbester,
Eugland, gt Ting t-he· a· erag,e earni ugs o.f 011eratit:"es. ·in E.nglish ,aeto,1ie,s , and tbe_y .a re acoompanied b,3:. . tables giving the prices p.ai.d in
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-,rEN" LA,-- n·o--R _,.!~",.. D
- . CAPITAL
T-IO·NS B--E- T·\ uE
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paid at a le- s rate int-his oono-try,, bot tbe oper.ativ-e& •a.k,e nio.re.7 t hrongb.
bard.er · .·o r k · han t'heir Enghsb f1 -· no,v-work.e rs.
· The tl ifficu1cy tha.-t we experienced in o'bta-ining tb.e pa_· sage of our
ten--bou.r law· ,vas owing 1n large measure toeompetitlun bytlie_m1Uls of
Connecticu , Rhode l laru1, · t·aiine., anti the o her New Englan.d States,.
ln tho.~e Sta'tes tbe O}lerati cs ,,·or.-k mo1e hours per tlay, and theo _.-ners
and -toekholden, of tlie ·t nills i11 ~l.a -· neho•-· ett.. thou.g bt it - -ou.ld 'b iJJn-a
1>oss ible .for them. · o co 1' llete sucicess'fi ·JIy if th ei e -O[)er.ati·,..es w or'k r-tl a.
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less n u1n'ber of hours,. but ::;o tiir as ·· e btst fiBf)Ort but one of Mr. ,v1·1gbt
g·iv~.s any· <la.ta in re«a.1--,tl to fue opera·f-on of the teu-bonr la.w·, 110 ii jur.lou~ e··- e.mts u.11011 tbe -HlNiness of .- Ias~ac·i1usetts n.1anufa ·turer:s have i-e~
~:dte tl front 1,n~tk111g the llaJlJ' bou1 . of labor t.P11 in~.tead of eleveaM In
ti.lat report. there s a grea deal of est101ouy :froin ·w en em:1.tloy·ed in tho ··
fl'aile and tro10 tbe • m11lo ~eriS, nnd a _gr-P.s:t many rea 01i are. gi·v en J>ro
and cou _ l .• ,,~onld ooc t11>·. too muc'h. , pace for 1ne . o .at 00011ll't to gi ,·,e
any of them lle,oo.. The. ohl a:r«umn uts in fa.vor of 'the s,b orter and t:be
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1onger hour are gi, en on. each s-itles. ;, but tl e, onteom,e of th.e pa~sa ge
ot~the Ja · has uoduu.b dJy b .1,eu beneficial so far a· I b.a,,. . e be· n abl ~ to,
earn.. The ·\Ta_
g·es pa.itl hi utber States are no:t hi,g her than tho '",p pniu
i H Massachusetts ..
By Mr. 'G EORGE :
Q- As -iu le·r ·- t, _· nd it, ) ou ha.v e ,g i¥en only the foreign. w.a ges - .A.•
I gaye the a v-e'l'.'age ·,'f.age ;.of the lJas . acbuse ·_·-.· operat1 \'",e s a.11d. tbeu th ._'
w;1ge - . of' th.e EngHsh operatiTes in thr,oo of the 'E ·n glish n1i lls in d.i tieren t:

sections of' 1gland.•
Q. Haie yon ;g eneralized o a ~ to be ab,l e to :state ·v rbat pereeotrn.ge
of'increaBe there "s 'in.Mas .- _achu .·. -tts,ov, r the,Eug'lish rat-es f-A. I ba,e
not done .so _;. bu:t frum testimony gt .· ··n me b, )Irt .R obtrt Bowaro -. of
Fall River, who ha, made a life s udy 1o f this.1Special ·b ranch of industr,y ,
and is at th~ present time •· .r-etar3 of' the Spinuers:' N.a tional Union,. I
learn that tb.e ave:r age ,p f the ·w ag .. paid io N·e. _· E gland will ,a mouHt
to, bnt a few· cents a day· ·mo1•,e than that pa'id in corr-es.ponding in.dn•
tries, in En g]an.d. T h - difficulty in d,e ter .i ning the & 'V era ge rate of
wages paid to the laboring 'Jl8ople employed in tb.a·t business a·rises.f1um
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the ·f act that. children of , o many dUl"e·r cnt ages,. -. u,J fem.ale labor, ai~
~~ployed to so large an -ntent Tha . of eoorse, rende.r s it,· xtreme1~
dift1~o]'t to ,s trike tbe average, thoug'.h i't oou]d be dooe ·b y a .m.athe·ma tic·iau getting the ·wbole number or people. ,e·m.ploy-ed and 1n11k'iu_g a
calculation ·upon ·t hat bacsis.. I · m also fa1niliar to .s ome exteot. ~ith tb.e
·w ages paid tb •· · ilk ope.r ati.ves iu · P-W Jersey·, whi,e h is the ,oon·t e·r of

'the si:lk industry of this country.
By the Ce·.111tx·A N:
Q.. Th. u I uu de·rS'lit.'Did ]r ou as. ·\l'"i ~bi.n.g t.o be under ·tood to say t lult
the .laborers. or operatives on tbe w.hole are. bett,er off in the •cotton and
woolen ind·u s· r.·ies. in Eng.l and than in the, ·u nit,e<l States -J -A. No, · ir;
don't ca,1•,e to make any st.atem~ut of1 that kind, at the _
p resent tilne
ei'tber one way or the otber.. r11e onl_y istat,ement I make .a t present: is
a .stat,em nt or the aetual wage· _p aid in botb. countries.
Q. In rega1·tl to ·wages, bowei er, your untle1~tandia.g is that -for the
same amount of ·w or.,~ the la.bore-rs .1u thi.s. oount1.s , though uomio;dly
pahl mo.re, a1~e really paid less tba n tl1ose in England, because t lu. r
woi·k. harder her - .- · . Tho . e who, \Vor k by . he 11iece.. T .h at i.-, t lu ·u-•
formation _given me by .Mrt -owar-d ,l
Q A1ul 'tl1 o~e w bo ,,~·o r k b v th · ilay a 11-e 11a id su bsta n tiallJ t b.,. ~HI n1c.
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w·,ages , ._ \ .. · Sn'b s.t antiaUy tile sau1 with a triffe 1u fa \-01 of t · ·_,rages
in 'thi country, but so Rmnll that it 1~ hardt ~ to ·b e co11r·itlf"r lt IH this.
co,n ntry the 011~mti.,..e ,vor'k four .ltonrs 'Jon.gel' per w·e ek than iu .E n.~ land,
and tlto ·'e who work by t he )>iPce work hard'. ··i■.. That is or1e .,., f th . t!·hif•f
I

ca,oses of strikt ·. .~n that huln ·· trY.•
Q. Tb ·. anacl.iinel'y n, etl in ·:he tw,o ,e ountl"i~s is .ub ·t?,nti.a1·1,~tlJe l"'~tmt~.,
I suppose ·~·- :\~ 8~> fat =is I ;.H • uble to IPctrn tbe1~ i. no apJ, ►l'•t-i,!ia lile.
d1fter-ence~ Tht~~T 1·t1u at ~J l1ig'b. I' rate of" ~l ,eetl in ,~ ·n_n ~ 1•n1 ts ot" lu.-: ll

countrie., 1tl1clll

·i n otber~ -~ Th · J.1rn1 ·.,t~ .h ·i r•~ 1niH~- us J ha1.·t~ been ~
1nforn.u!tl, 1uu tlu:w.ir ma<'"hh1t:rY at n. lt1gh r sr~eed tl1au iniH!'\ .in s(nne ,nfhtr
.P arts of "t.1100 la1ul, anti undoub edJy tb . F.aU JU ·,~t:.r n,ills iu tl•-i-~ ~ount ·,y
1.·un a't 11 hi~bet- 1·ate of ~.11 .t.etl, th.an th otlu:·t nuUs .
Q. I ·tiU stated, I thh1k, a·· the·begiunin.~ or~~onr tt ~'fimou~J- fn n-ga.1·~1
to tbe- cotton ft.ntl. woolt"n industri' ~.,. ba't ~~ou ha,l for~ y,e ar u~ u in ~-l~•se
assooiat1011 ,,·itll1tlu.~ l.aborerM or OJ ►t.rati,.~~s, (nHl so, bad acquir d a b,'.'O<~~l

tl alof koo~·ledge iu 1 . g:ard to thei.ra-ctnal cot rse of life, their 8ou1ws uf
enjoyment~ thei·r S,lflfi~riug. . uud b11rdshi1)~, u.nd tbat fro1.n tbe kuo·\\'l d.~-e
~ a.cqt ti lif-tl ) o u 1nad e you 1 gene·r~t liza.ti ·•I 1.. I "·ou l( l like to b a.,. c you ~-o
~0'1newba more h1to parfenlars ou ti.ult su.bjeet. I on n irl not r ·,t·l
.l imited as to tJ.w,tt... Tinu~ is of n.o eo:nseque·nce t ~l · his co-mn1:i tt f", if it
be onJv wflll emplored.- \. IH r,e.ei -.rence to the wager, paitl ihr lahor,
le .. me fil ,~ t i.,i., .e y-011 an 1Hnstration ot' bow tbe operati,-es th~~mR~ .lV4"~
J:ook npou it.
. hort thue 1Sh1.c e the op· rative.· ot· the l1J~.. w.iel1 nnHs.
in. l las~ach11=sett~,. wbe11. tber ·. ·,vas a 1Snu1ll-p . r•centage o,:f re•lu.ct i~u1 10a le
in the wagl'R, nhuos.t all l f , and w.. nt ba-ck to Eu"'.land. ~fho~e ndlls
w.ei-c paJ i '-' 1·1bout flt( R;au1c lH.·ice · paid by tbe ofh·"r n1ills for .· t correspontling grade or work, and those -OJl .· -~ti1-es ·aid tlu1t t'be-y· ,coul•l
make morn_anc:I Ii,-> better iu the p,laee they· came fron1, in England,
anti aooordingl.Y they returned.
Q. In w1iat · .- 01~k a1•e thos : n1ill1. engaged !-A. Iu .som1e 1tlepartm4tnt of
the eo_
tton industry; -dou·t know the exac!t eJ~~s uf ihbric that the,y
manufacture.
Q. Do ~-ou kno\·r whethPr it i .· a fabric to the nHtHufaeture of w.h iclt
those o.p emtives bad been aecns·t omed'f -A~ Id•o not; I believe. tho11gb,
that t.he mHJ h.a d been esta.bli,sbed for som,e time. I am not convermtnt,
witb the fact,.,. ·-xc ·pt fnnni s't.atem.e nts 1\"bi th, have come to me fro,n
sev,er·al so1rree~, but I ba·,r•e no doH~b t of the correctness of those Kta te•
. '. ·
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Qt It i . a Ula ter of general information,! I' s.u.p posef-..-\ .. 1.e·,,, sir
_ Q~ How 111any of tl10 · · operativ·es went back to .}:ngJand ! -.A.. dou~b
koow the e :ac·t u1 mhe1~, b1rt a larg. nnmbe·1'i•of th.e ~·pin•n.e rs.. If the 1nill
was, a large one thPY wn111ld probab]y ha 1te onmberecJ. an ...wbr·re from
Ji fty to tw·o b nudre l.
Q. Do yon ~uo,v ,\~hat 11 a.. become of th.at establisll ment !--..:i\... I. do
not, I p1e.s.1nn . it i~ ruouin g, l ha -e uo doub•t t a1't the own: .1·~ of tbe
rn11l obtaintd other IH!flpl to v.~•ork in th :pla,~es. of those "•rho ,rP.n·t
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Q. You M . ,· tlla t tho~e ~pinners , ent ba. k · o I-Ju >land be -au~e t i'1ey·
could do b tte1 tlian the): could do bere-irom fiftv to two h .1udrrd of
them ~-.A. I dou-r. know th · number but I .s av th rnill wa~ a laJ"l-,'eoD
a11d I _supp _· ·-e there was a la-rg-e nu1nber of spinner .
Q. Ba,"e J'OU known otl1er insta~nce-s of operali\"l~- w·bo earn h~1-e
from the old co1u1try returning beeau · t heY conltl do bett ·r tbr-re tban
laem ..- . ..\., I luIJtO. k.now·n se,e1~1 instance~.. I hait .. 1l . n t< I •JY ~pin-•
ners that tll ·v n;·•o nh 1 le· J 'lad to ~-o ba,~k ir ·.he.,.· hn.d th(~· lht "~! n. and. I
l1nve also .·t-aen. o _hers. r,•{l1it v,reiel.retl tu, orH~ i.u -fln~ ,eouu1r~.~~ )Jany of
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56

RELATIONS BET'W EEK L,ABOR AND CAPITAL.

them p'r,e rerred tbe 8.Ge,i al co,ndilion.8, be1·e , J:-MM.lr as they are, to those of
the old eount-r y ;: w'b ile, ,o thers ag:ai·n tiaid tb _t they did uot eojo;y any·
grea,t e·r ad.vantages here, an.(I ,ve1-e a .., w·eH ,on•·a:t 1.J ~ .e.
_
Q. H w· do pinne1.'8, rank 10 the elas ifieation of factory 01.eratives I
-A. T'hey are the higl1,e st ll&'i'd class, of facton
·mtives :; . the mu·1e
E-r,iuue1·.~ar,e the best J>aid 01•. r4.tives iu 'tb.e n1ills.
h,e ir sk.Hl is ,Bl!IF~
J)O ~ell to be worth.y of a higher remunei-atiou t an 1 ·. at of an,Y other
class of 01,erativ . s unl. ..··· in ni., · pecial brdnch oftbe bu1siness, dyeing,
J >ri nt1·u g, OT som · peculiar pro ss, whi, · , is m:ade s.pooi:a lty ~Y s.o,m
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Th1ose get n1ore than th@, ordinanr spi:nner, bnt t.be aver.
age ra1 e of' w _g· · J>ai(l tlie ,"'J>inne, ·~ is, 11·ighe1~ tl1a·n in aD)" other d .·part--

few 1>er :ou~·.

meat of "the ·,· ,clnstr,r .
Q. Do ., ~ou kno .· ho,v the 1•·ly of the Rl)iHncr in England. compared

·" ith tbat of t'b t,u1rotHt 011e1~ati.,..e in England 1kanks ui ,com·parison
with the wag : . ·1 ,aid to the two cla - · '8 in thi country, is the. ,pln:ner
.r ,e lati,.., ly bighc1· in position th re _ban. here T-A~ I don't think tbem
i .. n1uc·h dUle1~ : Hee in tbat 1~~pect. 1 don·' kHo anytbi.ng, . bou.t tha't
f.1-■ou.1

i11fo1 m ·tiou that I ba,,7e recei1, d
. Q . H.a.,ye ~fott k1101vled.ge of _a.n y instance wheJ . com:mo,n o,p rat:ives
in t~a ·tories \l'' · o l1ad cnme to thi •, 'Ountr~. fl'"Oln abroad :retu·m cd beeau · .
th~y corld do 'bt!tt :r ·i n Eu,« laud th n .1 0 Arueriea, I do uot mea~ ~u..
dividual, 1toradi ·,, in1tance1
s, llut auy con, id rable number!' ,A. ,. have
ue,· r kno·. u auy cous.i derabl~ .t1u1n r- . r of ea8e .' ; they bave not com .
·u .der m,~ob. .1•yatio,n
Q~ :~lor h, ,,,, :r,ou .h eard of t hen1 !--- · ..L · or h.a ve I heard of any con1~
...-.
·1-e 11umb. -r ,g o1,. g 1.0,
. a ·1u.. od
,.. ,~e h1_. ear,d.·: 1SO 1e 10d: 1'" _1,.d,.oa l18 say
s•~ u.til;rau
·.: . y·. .I. 1u.a
tlla -. th ·y ,vishcd tbe~ ,c onl:(1 go bac·k ;: but of ,c ou: e many causes might
Lu,-e combin d to produce that statement or des;ire,
~. Ar,e ,v · t,o nnders tan<l tbltt th .,g n raJ jmpreir ,i ou , sti.o g on your
1nh_tl is tbnt tbe .En:gUsb factor,ji' ope,r a.tive i:f; a , well olf or better off
'than the A1ner."ca11 'factory 01~crati¥8 '>- ·..c-\. So far w. he r~.ce·iy·e ·. money·
for his " ~ork,, an 1 ·O, frar as r·egards the purchasing J>o,w er of tbe :m onejtl1at. he recei,~es, I t1iiu'k he is ars w ell off" 3 ·" th Am .n ,ca1a operative.,
(J. r lien, reall,, ·, 1u your opinion, it is a d1Sad,·anta,g e for li_. m to come
to 1his coautry ,- ~. No, ·i r; I do not tlu:u r t.bat
Q~ \\' hy Hot .-A .
iH, l tbiu'k the, 110 si.biHtie - nre grea tcr iu tbi.
COl ut."ry.
(l... I). 1t u -, , I · uppose, uul~ · b ch.an« ·s l1i .'' pur:,j, iit ,; you n1ea .·. that
the J)ossi~iliti , ~ la 1-e are gr·ea't l r- b · · -~· u.. . h e n1a .. chru. ge l is pu - ni ffl •·
~
:~;, .A. ,..,.
~ t .
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"
anoI h CJ'll~ 'by improve
.Ell:·,
c<)n d·,1. ·,on
..1.1dL,
1. oue o ..
. th: , ] .oss11.h"
. n1;_
1e.s,
nnd tbe1u '•s, al··o ti.Jc ]lo · ~ibili.tv tl at th · J' · O}tle iD th · cotton a (1 ,, oole11
u1ill~ 1na.y henefit tb tn _ ]~"cs lo L ~reater ext nt. bv n :p,ro11er ,course of
action h re UJ·1n in ·G reat Br-itu.iu,.
Q- ln ha· re~nrd ----· •,. · 1 regar(l. to t bei1 1·ela on ·., to the tatl,-·
the po : ibili 1yo· a. man ·~ Hll ·auceuient in tll.c; political ·o.rld aru.l tbe
Jto,vc1·· t l1·Jt 1nay b~ acq uiret11 by auy clas:s of bul ~m. tiy· is g1 ter in th.:m
co·intr,·.
"'
Q. T . 11 t, ho,r . ,~,r r, j; ' O · t.;: d~ of tb ),',: ,{,uhn occ 11,,a tion ; : nm , ~1>eaka
.
.
. Ier..
"· occupa·"d. on a , a mrans o-f .·. · tt1ng
:1ng c-, -t_• t·-1ue
a I..l''f.'rng,,
an d aiu cons1c
J ng t bat ,fJ u s ~ ion. 'lYi't ho 1t ref~re n c to poli t ica.I. in ti uence or
u trol.
Lookiu at tht.. 1natte " ,ri'thout 1,. f &I nee -o th ex rei · .· of' ao, ere·., nty
or· ot· .Jlolitic-al udluen .•e, and 111 rel. · ,,s a question of tbe ordio.ar., lleell..
niary a .n d social condi iou of he labor 1~,, do ,ou t-hiink t}1at the. Engli h
ttperat·, e rnight as ,vell star at hon c ns ·•on c lte1•; i-A. · es, ·" ir; just
at thtJ pr,.sent tim . I ha,:- ~. been to, d bv the g ·1 tl . . a ,. "Th.om I baytbough, exceJ1,t

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51

BELAT'I ONS BET\\' EEK LABOR ,AN.D· C'A.PITAL~

alread_,v named, who·m I reg:~ rd as _good authority,, and wlJo. is univer,s ally conceded by the manufaetqrers to be .a,ce"11Bervati¥e and moderate
mau, Mr._Robert Bow·ard,,
Fall Bive,r1 t~at tbe m~torlty of the m'!ID
her .. ,o f bia 800Jety·, tl1e .N ational IIule S,p1nne·r s' Union,, hav·e not 1111.
JlfOV"ed tbeir co,n dition ,& Ba ,vJiole by comin_g to Ameriea.1
- Q. s, Mr.. Bobe1t ; ownrd a:11 .Eu li ,.;hman. or au An1erican i'- A , HP.
is an Euglisbm,a n of lrit\b e~-r1·ao:t1our I believe. He was 'b orll in Eng..
____.,_. h·1~ m
...·•
. ! co~~
n nd , 1~·~f I' h-,
a l . a nod~.._
I~
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Q. How long has he been in this COUBtrJ,~ •·-Ali For a ,o ousidera-ble
pe1 iod" about, t wcu.ty· ;y ears, I am 1nfor1ne.d~
Q,. H e is a naturalized citize,n, I sup,p ose!-A.1 Yes,,sir; b :has been
a l'Heniber of the Massa,c hu -· tt . legi Ja·t oro for t1 o term.s, I tbiok .

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Q If you hav · gi,. .eu an:v reflec ion · o the di'lfemnce bet,v.eeo the pur~
eb( siu,g J)Ou"er of wage · here and in En.gland., I should be glad to ha·v · ·
you gi ,,c us t lie beut fi 't of ,.rou r 'F•e:flections and o,bser at-ions, o.n that
sub·ecL-A I 11~ Ye gi ,~eu son1-e att-ention tu it~ a.nd. I -,b ould ·h ave ba•l
-some tables on tba·t ,sobj,eet if I bad, bad long · r tim,e to J)re:pa·re m.ys.eJf
for-tbi: e.xamin.atiou .; but the p . riod that e'lapsed between the s·n-m.mon·1ng· of the witues .· es bere a-n,d the ime, wh n we w,e r,e obliged to, a·t tend.
was so i;bort,,, a.1u l tl,1·· su1n niou s ,ea n1e so unexpe-etedl \"--be,cause -. e :had
,n·,~,~, u.1,, an idea-o·f being caHed upon to testify duriug thi,s se.ssio of
Cou~rress-tba.. ,rus unab1e 'fo briu~'t' ,vith rue auy specific tab]es, and I
~an orllv 1- i.,,e ~rou m\" !!:·eue ,·al idea ou the ,s ub1ect.
·Q. Give us . tb ' n, , -ou1 geuei~l ·ide~ 'Y ~A . . ) :f y ge-n rn.l id · a i .· that the
11n1-cbnsn1g power of a dollar in Great Britain is larger than it. is ·i n. the
UU'it -ti States, es1>ee1alJ~r in New -t"!ngh1nd ,i·lu~~e the cost of ·n ,:ing is,
1u-ob1:.bly ld.g ber than ·j u an}., oth. r pa1·t of this oour tr)'.". 1'I) iu11J·r essiou
is 1bat the d ifler~nee in t~1 e COfd, of Ji,. 1u,g . ~1 u,l of · :i_oth1n g especially·, i.s
,q ui.t c ro·ns,i de-·11:tbie, .a nd als@ ·in ·t he co..~t of some of th. food ·p r,oduots:~
lo 0th.er cas -,., , again., fh e porch a,si ng J>.rnr . r,. I think, ,g reater, in this
eouutry1 Vc{.l'ot"' u]es,, I beH- Ye ns a rulo, are deare.r ·in .··•"reat Brlta'in
than the,~ are ha .tho lJ11ited Sta ·1 pf;.!I Tb ~1e is. a ta-ble in the la t re·p ort
of the -. · sn ch u~,l ·t tit, B 11·ean of ~tat i ~ti,cB gi ,,·i 11g fhe porch a sj ng 11owet
of ~- dolhn~ in ·:-nrrlaud and in Nu""'' Englaud a.t t.be 11r ,sen't time, .and
·f so, the 11u1·cha~ring po,r r of a. dolt:u ~on1 ~ 3:-,ca., ·, a.go, showing that it
l1a~ clec1ieased ra1ddl · ·w·tl1i11 tl1 · last t : w , ... ·a.rs,, lt-is, not neces-san-·fi ·r
n1(l', liowe·, f.r, to refer to a table to a ·c :.rta.in that fa,et,, , cat1s.e hn:v ~
,,:re kl~ · evitl 1-nce of it,in ·my o,wn. i10H8Phold ex1,enses., Th co t of H\"ing
in Ne"-Eu~~
l uul to-da,y is,,rxol'bilaut,,t?SJieciall\"' i.n autl around the •'itie~,
i n li(H11 pn.1 ison w i.. h t Itf. rn i ·-~ s J)a1,J l'tn~ l 1hot.,
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l~ .. ,\rh3'f itcnts of .su~·t<~nantc.~ 1u X · ·,v Eughnnl. do :ks it se . u1 to yon are
r~11~cial-.~- exo.r bit~11:1-t i ·11 1~ t·i•~ ;1 t th·.. 1,re~ent ti u1e .',- .A~ I tbiuk we J)ily
,~-,~ cxo1 hi tan · p1·1 "'fl' for unr ,i· tn~.a t autl flour and :rnea t, for t.hl~ stfflll ,·. ot-~'
h h: 11' a ,,.boh.~.
Q,. T o ~e ,.ta 1~ l :"s ~ <Is ·, ,,,,11 olc ,, to mn t: f1·01n t 11 c \\'"est, do the J .not ,..·- . .'.\ .,
'f !le,, come hrr-g . J)· i·ron• t be ,,:,. t,t .
Q . ~Onr ftonr eo·mne8, fro1n th~ , ·\-e.-~t ahuost xclusi,~e,1,,r, (loes i not-f.,A... I beHe,Tc it- does .
Q. An,I ou1 be.t"f' ~uul 1u_:,l'k .ul o coiue f1·01n the "\Vr- st to a great exh~nt -A.. Iu t-l1a _ "onucti'ti ou I wiH read fro:w tbi tab1e to show t'lu. .
comparati,. e decrea,RP in tl1e JH.lrcha,~dnn• pu,ver· of a dollar since 1878.
1.t slaows t ha.t ·t be prit · ~-x .of g1 - ,erie;i ba·"'c 1u1\"011eed 911 11er cent.; pro~
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, ~.1 .-ion~,,

:.;.0.. 1 per c . n t. , fruel, 31.1 1u-~r een t (ant hra,c i t,e eo.a·1 :--MHl t-h-e wootl.
n sed for kindling)'; dry good~· 9 per cent . ; rent.,t,, &;~ 1 per ,c ent .Boot.·_
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ha\"·,e fallen in prioo 16 pe.r c :nt.
B~
,.,, )Ir. GEORGE:
Q.. Doe. that acl f'ance i reut~ ~l J)pl:,,· to the r :nt - of tenem,e nt house ,
useil bl operatives, <:r to rent .· of' (i•;,--~lli:ngs general]~ !-A. The S'- ate~
i11ent apJdies to ·r ents g j,nerdly .. T be 1u·I,c~ ot" boa·r d tor n.o JDarried ru·. 11
atlve.neetl 13 1 pe1 eent~ fron1 1.Si~: to ]S;~l~ ~ he avera_
ge inc..Tease here
t:l how n is 21 . :! per · 11 t., itUUl. the .i ncr-en.se cou tin ues :~n u1o~t nf t hPse
1nattersf)

B.y · be , ·.R.AIRJ,I A~ :
J. To 111at poi·tion o:f J\"· ". En~1a1ul does that table 1--~Jut,e
A. T,o
~las · achu.s ett,- ,,. I tl1·iuk the fi~ai- · s \\~onld boltl.go0tl, 'l1011reve·r , in all t-he
Ne,,l, - ngland iS tates.
m .........

Q.. Do yon unue1·stantl that th tlata.on wbicll tlui;t table i.R, ba. ell we1•,e

collected from. tbe entire ,S tate the rural distri-cts a~ we-ll
A .. F"'ro1n the entire State, a · I uuc:lerst:a1nd,o;

11~ the ,·

ities -

The h.u:rea e iu ,wages for

tol lows.: I u agricul 111·~ ·4"~1 per ,cent.. , h1 blac'ksmithiug ll.S per ceuh; in tbe b 1iltlio1t trade,
,4. 9 Il · r · nt Tbe,r e has. been ad ~creas · iu the boot and ~1100, bltsh t~s
of 4.4 per cent-; iu cabinef-wakiu_g 1.,7 .· .· r eeut. ; iu ca.rpet . maldDg, 7,. ~
per ,f re o t.t ; in ,e.ar .ia , -e,. m a'k.in g, 0 14 1,er cent.., ;: in the e ·ot hi n '" t'rade tbe·r c
has been ·an iDor,ease of .20~7 per cent.; iin cotton __ ood~,, D"l per eent ; iu
glass-woi·ki n_g, 11 •.l ·p er cent. ; and i 11 hosi,er:r, 13.,1, ),le r ieent. In tJic
1Jef ·t· h
'"'
'h.,a . , 'b een o.... .. 6: per cen t .;, in
.. 1ua.c1Hoes.
,.~~
i-er ·itrad. e t-'h
,· e in.crease
4-~nit1 n1a
cbiuery, 22' per oeo . · ill :1netal . :a ud n1etallic good ,., 2 per ceut~; tn fine
work of this kind, 13~ 7·; the sa111 .· ·in t.he manufacture: of 1nos'i.c al iHstrn ~wen ts; in paper-·maki 1_1g·, i ,a, per _ceut ; in printin,g, 10.2 per e.ent.; in
t lie 'am _. period is a l~o s1 o'"" 11 by tbe table·, as

tb.e ma.nafacture of rubber goods there has been a,decT·ea,se o-f tive-teuth ,
J~.r cent-.; in stooe. wurking·, a,n iocrea,se o'f 11,4 p .r cent.; in straw·

goods, _dooreas,e of 2,.7 per cent:.; a1 -d in woolen goods &D. iucrease of ~
·per -cent1 Tb.e average iu.crease in tb.ese industries is 0.9 p,e-r eeu t.,,
while. the a;,-rerage. iuCflease io tbe cost, of li.viHg is 2:1i2 per ce.ot.
Q.. Why is 1878 . lecb?d. a . the ~-en,r of comparison th.ere !-A . The
av·erage ·wee'kly wag,es in 1860, in 1872, 'in 1878, and in 1881 are given.
I ,s.o ppose tho ..·, year.s were selected becan .e. it was t'hen th.at t-he ob, er"'
vati-ons were made and the bureau bad the data, for those years..
Q. Can you m:ak.e fro those tablea any comparisou, betw·ee1 18·71
and 1882 f-.A. Yes,, sir;. the c-0111parison can be :made by reading t~be
-c

t,.ables.F
Q", .H aTe you :ans data whi.ch w·ill enaible :r,o o to gi -•e tbe percenb1g-e
. f clHference bet \\"0 .n tbe ,Sil\'"@1, · 1 J ears from 1860 down to the present
tiim,e f-A. Th,e figures a:re h eEe in tabular form. as ,w,ell 11repare•I M, I
,c~11Jd. ,possibl,:r give, tJ1 em to the co roi ·tee.,

Adjourn ·ct
\l .A.S Hil NGTO-

1

F tbf'H',<lt1J 9, ] 88.:l..

FR.A?.; K l\.... F o ·. TER r,ecaD td. :, exan1inati:ou . ontinuet·t
1

.;,y )lr. GEORGE :
,Qoe5tion.. ·. th li,re an,, lb,i og that )·ou tle •. ire to adtl to ,vha.t, yun ba,~,e
aJreatly slatell !-..::\IUi ·er·. \1\ hen ,. e ceased ··s ~ter•lay I ·w as sp aking
of ,some table · \\~'h ith a1 p~ar in 'flu:ir. rP1~01t of tlt llan~aehu~ .t.ts Burem1

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

RE.LAT.IO!l'S BE·r wEEN LABOR A: ·c-D CAPITAL .

of Labor Statistics for ]ast J"·e ar·, s·h owin_g t·h e prices of com·mOllitie-~ in
I .:,00,. in 1872, in l878_
, and in 1881,, an~ the pe-rce,!l·t age of i ner,e·~ se a o t I
·tleerease. These al>les. oov . r nearlJ the w·hol · · h ,t of s aple ai,-ttele~.. ,,t
consumption among· th , w-orkina 11eo1►le., There i.s nuotber table. -j\~in ~
t'he pur-c basing power -o f a •lol ar iu 1860,. in }t;:72·, in ts.rs and l:ii~L.
There is also a. tab1 •· gi·\~iug tl, - 1u~ices i11 EnglilUtl I f some of the 1 ·.~lst
ueeessary .articles o ~ co nstnn pti:on, which I de he to put in ·1lso.. Tll:1r
i,. all 't'hat I . -ish to ut1d to ·w hat I ha.ve alread,y saitl on that point .
Q ~ You 1 ul :r }J,roee,etl, hen ,1,r·i ti ) nr s'ta tem nt as to t be ·~oci1a·1, fi 11 ancJa.l, and ecooou ical co1nlitioa. ot· the oper.~itive~ iu be eottnn r i'll · in
~ ·e w Eng a1ul ··- -.-\~ O·u._ ~ of thtl, 1110 t imJ>Ortaut p en]ia.1 itle:, in the ft.~ r ~
He indust1;il"S ts tJie larg ·l, n11do~~n1cnt, of fernale an,l ebild labor·~ I
·w ill quote a para•or- -atlh f1-wcm llr.F, ,V riaht'.s report tor 1881 (pa~re -Jtili J~ ::·1~h·is wo,r ds maL be taken " ~ith gl'12.nte1"· co1tfidence than tbose of auy iu tli vid nal ·wbo .h~1s 1.tot ha.d t-"rl tl'\ I :u1e..1ns of in::fo.rma.tiou..
' e sa"~ :
1

1

In -o ur' c-,ot ton ruiHs r:spe,e,ia Ur tbe wo 1e-n au< c'l1"'ldren lar"ely ex,ee -d t'h.t• iur--··r ..
bein1.~ often from two-thil~tls 'to lix~-si:"tt'h , of tbe wholei, ~ u~l_t h JU"fl,IJJor-tioM •l tb11.·1.u
- te·a dil iu,cre,ash1g~ Anti \\' hat :ire tlt·~ women ,a,nll ·hi.ldRD but tlH~ \"t"l:'t~ ?.r, ·:t 1 · ~
•P - t and n· ost d.,e1-.eu.dent of all tbe p -or•1,Tbey i'ia,· no dispotf tio to a.... it~u·,rr. _ l'lle~h=tve no power· to •~hange any · xistintt , ·oatUd.oa ,o f s.oe iety ·i f thie,y w-o -~J~lt un _:t ··JH• it
mnu.il do: s, not ·w o ,k
tf1at .. r,Ju_ge. it~ ·· ···.f toi 1d~ All that if-1, ·p ·_._ i"bl,e to tbew, i:s tu,
t ,o:il an.ii. se:rim:p ,nul bea,r, Now, fo,r L e·r .,, l he ,t rong, thO&e " "b iJ 0 a :r 111 lf" t be , 0 \ ··r·· igna -o ft ' ,e land 5 'th~ houl'"8 of laLo.1~arce hnt t D all o,re·r the rountry, in .a bot t t• ··t•r~. m p-!oy.m · 1 t w he·re t bey preponll rate.. B 1t "" here the wo1u · ·u andl <-:hi.Id: ell p r11. · p, ua1 :ra · , 'th · H)ql"$ ~f la t,or ,~s · r 'le, a.re -· leven ot more.. A1nl t'he ~in~ Uou ·i~, \: · ll r l ~
i 1- in this land:, w bi.,e h ~ 1. u~ J:.or flq ual tt,y a.nd Jn :t1 ce th ·1 t t , "' w,a;>:tk - 't. the n10. .t 11 11t lesa, and. tl _p@·n d -nt, :ar, ]O::ll.,il,ud l\:'."i th t.lllJe bt1·r den of 'the mnmre llou~,. n·b i]e the :snvu~,
the .a ble to bear., and, fh c·o,ut ml Uog on tr h ·v . th · :It: _ hon 1 . ·t o ·wt 1·k !· A 0-1 i Hu~.
c· -eac·io:0 1 vd.11 ·~·h on. O'.Perati.,·e wh ~ pered in our ea:r·hi a. · n:i vatt· rooJn., wr 11:!P tt" t:fl-~.,pu
rh . liibe·r ty to utter aJond.
'
1

And I t biuk the sam,e qn · stion. comes bome with a great de,1I of to1· .•··.
to any on.e w·bo makes hi,m, elf fam'iliar wi~th ·t he·~ondition o.f the o,iu~ra
tives in tbe textile iutlnstrieR, in New Englan.d and in. othe·r pa.rts of tht.<·
country. T'o an.yo.ne who ltill is taud a.t tb1e gates o,f any of our Jarg · m~lnufacturing establi 'h meut .- in that line and not.it~ tb.e people who co €"
forth at noon or at 11ight. or who go in in the mo:rnin,g,. a ,th ' ease Bl~\r be.
tJJe _ery large percentage. of cbtl,d ·r en ·j ·__ .. .tartliug-i -o metbiug that u11
one -can see - it.hoot n~king himself .: ,vb.ere mus,t this e-n(l t The 11nm.~
ber of wo,mien .and ,girls who fo,Jlo"r op•th.is rot1.tine ,o f _d ailv ·1abor w bieh
exhausts ·t heir ·v itality and destroys 'their wom:an l100fl al•os·t, f11>n1 the·
veey conditions ,oif t ,e Ja.b or a,n,d the sanitary;, or rather tb e ,,n -ani ta 1·y;
conditions un,der whi.,cb. it j S, perforx, ·d, and th:e ', lation -, bet ·-ee111 D a ·11y·
of tbe ,girls a-nd those w. &.o have po·wer O•Y er them, the en1ployer~ or the··
director.s ,o f tbe ·mills, bei.ng eonsi.d ,e nd,, it m.ust oom-e hom .- to the- ob~rv,e r· with increa.i.ng foree all tbe time, 'tha _so Iong·as. that c-0u(U1ton
of'things e ists, and the boors of hdJor remain as. they are and this ,.~t?-neml state of affairs continue. · ther,e is .a growing ele•eut of tlaogeI" In
onr sooial oo dition. Tha - tbt · st.s4te ot· affairs does, exist i.a Xew-1,:nglan.d can be. prov, n by obserirati,o u .a.nd by· referenee ·o the report~ ot
he. Bureau of I . a:b or S.ta.tisti-cs.. In the report for 1 : :.., png, .:!~O, ~I1 •.
'Vrl:g ht sa,~s. !Io mau , _qna,t~rs. ,·i ·ited by t'be a1_g@utZj. ~o },~,3ill JU.,· ·r: ,nu.~ ~· t"ounu nn~~-~·h i ~i ... d·:--.
1

1

rarely nieet' ·o g· W 't t h lia ppy, ,c oot,e n t e l peopl~.. 1n .L-0 \V~ U an~l a wti uc..·
a! •·~t' :1. r.;
t,e a~u ~: .
dimt eT" n ti , uo.,i)re •l"l~.r=-s of b ·l1l ~ · nre ma,ny ,of'·t he co:nl'iort;, li:~j.. Th,.. w
t bie, e·v,iden t Iv Ii,~s in. i-:lbe fut,t ·n1 ·t t, i.n Lo w·el l anu La wr ·iuc-e, th -re is, m.0 re of t 'l1tt· i Ul, i·ido,a 1 h ·- 1a.·bor anr _l'. e$$ of 1·b .fa.mi~-'·". lu Fa~ I River e111·ire fin11i Ii.ti -· \<\' ork in I h, · 1u; I;1
· nd an obU•iia.tion hl ·t he l~as ·· of th~ 1n in te~e'1neuts. ·f t' l ll h'·e d1 ; ]fl's. ,\ · to f:n n~ .s .1 ,:'..
•~·t-rt.0.h1 number· of 1nm1,k 'h ; t be corpora tic n. as -r m pl:,~J 61
1·

or

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

60

R.ELATJONS H,.E TWEEN .L ABOR A ND CAPITAL,.

·n y the 'C•H ilBHA.li:
Q" _1.llosc tenemeuts .a re boanling houses, attached to tbe miHs, I sup-Jltl~e ! - ·\ .. Not necessarily.. TbeJt are ·ooth boardi.D g-honsesBv llr. G ·E OBGE •
Q~ Do I understand.the statement to be that these JlOO·p le are obJi,g ed
l11 their contracts to furnish so ·m any ero ,lo ·,es to the mill 1- ·., In.
n1a11y easel,",
1

l!i,

Q. · be houses belong to the mill"'o · ·nera and. are .l eased to th.e . · par~
·t ies, and, as part ,o f the terms of the eontract of l~ase, .so 01a.u5 operati·'f"es
are to be furnished from each house, i .· th.at it ..-£\. ·y ·es, sir",
By the C·HA:JR AN:
Q l understand that those tene·ment~hooses am o Nned b t'be. millo\\·1H:I rs.. W b.~lt i .., t b.ei r o ljec tr in t.h e o," n ersh i p of" f · ose lm ou ses T-A.. .I
;su1,1,1osu ·t he o,b ject is that they n1ay ha,,e a larg,e r i1rflnence and oon'trol
o, i■ tbeir 011 rat-i, ,e s; at] . ;ui;.t , tllat l'la ., been tbe result or their owner~bi1.> in man,· ,·ases I know that in the ~reat stri,k in th Barmoo·v
1u~l1lri . i1n · •w York la···ti Jear tile (leop] . ·w er,e e,~1c"t@d wb,o did not assent
'to tho :11ro1iosed .r-edu.etion of ,.; ages--e:, en tbose ,v ho, had. be ·u wo,r k
ing for tl1e corporation fo1~mauy years--becai1s · tbeJ refus ~d to nooep't
the ~e(lHction 11Vbich. tl1e corpo1ation proposed to make in tb,ei.r scanty·
1ntf ,;1oee ~
Q. I.hit uf course tbe n1iU~own -~rs do uo,t b1 ih:l and own tbes ·. te.oe111 ~u t-h on s .·s 'J.lri 1n uri ly i u (~on · em.I)1at 10H of s.tri. keN, or d is,o rder _
; they
~·onstr t·c t the t~u ..meut . aloug ··-itb tb.e nn.n··•,, do .be;~, not ~ ..........,- Com.
u1oulv~
.,.
QI Then '"'~lint is tbe ir r,eu on for building fbe te, nu~nt~ ~-A, .I
"-Pl n IJ . nd tba '. Ju.~•c hi,, ·f .1 a .. on for 'b • i.r o · 1 ,e1 ..b ii,, i · · be tlesi.re to ob~

i

'IC.~

ii

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tu11n a. larg ) I•· coint:rol over th ·· ir operati,. . es,., ,..i\. seeondarJ· couside:r-ation
of cou1"8e iti th a : the. l1onse,s are-ten1un.e rati ,~-~ and yield a good retll'm
1 n t:be in,:~ ·tm: nt,.. Tb ,eor11oration , beiug large a.nd 1ioweriul, can oi
t~o1n·so build ,vhol rows of t·h e o t ~1 em.-.ut~hon -es;. or shanties cbeap-,~
·m ul :rPn -t lie ul it -~l ~ootl p,1•i :''C, ·uu I t hef1 b,- g.a i u so 111 u b ail tU t ionN l proti.t
tO atl<I to their di \Tiden,ls, 'f bey ho,h l n tnonopoly of tbe reutin,g·of these
-~, Hl . · ·, ~d.mos;.tt 1 : i.s u lt, unu~ ual or· an 01~er·i \ti,."e to r,re in a bou~e
.J1a1 does not bel.ouw to th~ w.·u •Corporation, 'bu - 1t is b tt r fcJir bis in·t t I"t.;.~1· ·i n 'tuc 1nnl _bat l · · ~hontit·1 1·eut ld , t~1u:.rnent of tll min~ ~~ucrs,,
~tu .1 ·,,·her ,, Pr th: t,,u •.u1e1rts ate •O \\ru d ·b r t.be mnl orpornt ion tllis
1

;I

i.

1

,··ondj t ion of., aa ~)l'S

Xi~t.. ~

n, 1\lr. GEORGI•~ :
Q,. ,\ by is it better fut· h.iln to r ut bts t en n1, .ut . ,f t ~e 11nll-t)\Tn _1· _!1

1

.' an that hifi t 1u1,loy1n nt \Y I be 1nore cerh,~.n to la~ if h i' . ·
tf•n~r 1t, of tho 1oiU-o,1rru,r . In c·1 ·,e of n dnll seas,011 or a reduction
Hn~ ,,·orkiug foic~ th l~JJ,le '" 'ho U "C ii~ Ollt5itle t nen1-ent·• l\"iU g, ut 1·n ll~ l, t be fh ~ t -o 1,to ,. 'l)(l,cn n . . . h c eorpora ti.or1 - ta Id n g ,l )On t b m ~
~~el, ,i-• the r -~1>011i ibilitr
rea.l e~tat _" o,\\"'lH rtdii1),, ua:turaHy xpeet tu
n1t. l ~- ~ it llt•o,fi h:tb,l e aR tb· y tn~1k e t'h e. other pnr s of tllei1-- bu "'ine··..··• Ilrofi t~dJIP, and they take tl1 nece aJ.J ·tc1,s to accon11>lish tbat' obj}, , t~

_\,, 1

10

,o:

or

. \: the OllA.lRM\ - ~ ~
Q ~ l )o ,y on not tllin k th.: t th ne'-~essit:,= of tua,k [ug 1n·o·\~i.siou io the
""'UY or bnbitation,. fo1· tbe hn•g, · UUU) bt.~r of 0)1' _]"cl ti\· -.s re,q_uir d in On
.~nces the inill-owner · ~11 erectiug tllo:se t,eut:.111e I ~bou:se,s -o.f ,eonr -e;;
,Tith 1-e.t~renee also to their o,vu ultimate pll'o it on tie· i.n,:,e,__ trn _nt· ,..:\.. I h;t1rc uo doubt that there w ultl be roan .1·eal-estate o,,Tu r. r~ out>
1•

m

-

.

Ii.

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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ti l

R'ELATIONS BETWEEN LA.BOB AND CA.PIT.AL,.

.side who wool.d be glad to oom·pete for ,t'be :rents of the empl,o rf of rhe
mil.I. if the cor}> ·rations, did not fnrnis.h l1ouses..
Q. B.ow is it i.n -the onliuary ease of a cotton-mm plan.t o,r a ·wool ..n-n1ill
plant as yon ba v-e seen them tbron=h·o , t •·. · w England; clo y·oo know an
iD . t-ainc Tb . re an)" large ,company ,ias failetl, in connectiou 'With the iuves,tment in thewater .. po er and.'the m·i ll itself, to .· ls . purcha -e ·1 and ~m.u<l
erect ·t eneme ,t -bou, .s n~· .r by for· the accommodation of tb.e help 1 ._ ~
quired in the miH !-A. I believe tb:at 'i't is, almost he uni, e·r s J custon•
for tbe.m to erect sue ·.· house .
Q., -- ud ba-v,e you.. ·y doabt that. the p:rimary object in tbe erection
of those t,e u ,m,e nt hous0S is to furnish acoommodation ,o onv ni nt to
tile .mill fo- th.e belp that · HI ·b e employed iu it 1-A,. I do not think
ghere ·w oold au,y ,d anger but that a,eoommodations w·,ould be pro•\""i.d,e d
if there wa , . demand for th "m.. I ,d o not think that tbat. nece · •·a ril,·
is the moti \·e of t b ·. corpora tion,t
The OH IRMA..N·~ But it is unn c c-sary to ·p resuppose. th ~. worst mo..,
t.ive for a ,eorpon1tion if it is ju~t as easy to · or.mise one tbat i le8s,
discreditab,Ie. People do not ordinarily iuv,e st moue ,.and go i'n'to bu -i
·!

11.,e&S, operatiors to do mischief or· to b.ort anybody.. Tb.e n~J)r1mar,; object is to bette:~ hem · . ·lves . ··ther th.an to injur@ other~,. N:o w, 'i ·.· 'it'
not falr and . · -asona.ble to .:oppose that the ·p rimary ouJ ,t of the~e
corpo,rat'ion , in erectio,g te'Dnieots i·.. to fur ··ish bet.t .rand more eouveolent acoomm-o dation for their help than th y woo.Id oth rwi, · ba,,"'t,
aud at the ,same time a more profitable accommodati.on to :hem l,..es f
Th.e W1 - ',~as.. . ndonbtedly tb.e d .,s ire, to furnish t 1enls·· · Ive . ,vitll
the most profitab],e accom·modation fo,r tb -.ir help is tbelr prima:r y ob~
ject.
'T he C.e AtRlllN.. ,v,e do n.ot need to s. ppose th ·t the~ .. constr1 ct
these miHs ,o r ,opera ,e the1u, or that th ·e a.bu- e , come t ~ exist fo1
bene ,olent reasons, bu : at the Si:1 me ti e l e do not need to _. np}lOse
tb ··. worst u}ot1v-· s.
The"\\ .T NE . ·' ~:o, .1,1·; t ·h -se t,e·n ·m ·nts .• om.e so,m ewhat under t11·..
a.me h.e ad a. tb truck or" pluc T-DJ . ·. tor, -,. and undo·ubte(ll:f tbt~
large manufactofl 1 -. or those b;1;v iug control of l ~ rge caJ)tta'I ca , o
this bui Id·i u g 1n ~ _, ~ l1eape,r w a.y- b,y, le-t tiug it .out to eon. trJ.,ctor:i th an a tt\·
1.ndi , id ua1 local 1~eal- s. tate man can do it.
The ·.. · ··.1. · :· .· -N~ And those · ·ccou1m:otlatiou,s benig oncP- providetl
and go,-er .· d b.r tbe rules and regulations, that yoo ·_p ea.k of, will b .
,·erJ mueh - ld .~r tb . control of the e,orporation,,.
The ,,1 rrNES • Yes, sir ; utire'ly u11der their· iC-O'D trvl, pract lca'l.1y..
1

By llr. . EOR,. · :
,Q. Ou that point st~1te wb ·_· ther the; . factor.r esta'bli ·- hin ·nt:•· are lo .
cated genera]ly 10 Jarge eeut.er,s of' ·p opulation, where there is a good
deal of ·_ eal h and a 1 .·rge populatiou n . ide from the fael.ory eorpora .
tiou, w e_ · there are houses bei.n :t bu iIt .all the rime anti re.al estate,
io tbe market for reot:ing pori>0se . a:ud · hetber if th se ·t en me11.t ..
h.ouses wer · no, . unilt hJr th.e cor,1lo ·•tion he probability i~ that boo/ ;·
.. onld be n:pplied by out i.ders T-.. . )Iany of he mannfactor1.e .· of
· ew· Engla,n d a1~ ·- boilt on w1.:ter-1JOwer ·wbi,ch Ila . b'i . bert:o ·.. en nnoc~
copied, aud con quently ·they are awaJ· ·from to · lar,g •· cente ~- , but
mo t of th , indu ..tries, of tl1is kind fbat ha,,.,-. ~ -n. tarted io 'the la .t
,deea.,d e is in the larg , r center,R, iu Fa.II Ril'er, in Lo\r«!U, in Mauch ster,
in •·'ew Be(1ford f)laces •hat ha,; · alrearly grown to, u, h ~ size thrl t
1he fllcilit".es .,, ud opportuni•.ies of tbe. opern.ti\ t · for obtaining, te·1le..
meuts, wou 1,d not dei,entl to auy extent. u1)()n tbe e,· · · t10 1 of the·1u ),Y
fh · :n1 iI.I coi pora tions~

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

REL!\TIO•:X - BE.T'\'fEEN LABOR AND CAPITAl...
1

Q. Iu the case of t'b ese recent faeton'" e terprises of , . hieb ,!'ou hal"
~1~okeu,. does. th~- ten ..rne·n t-bou~e ooutiuue to a.tten•d the factoI"y, as ia
tt:n·111 r -iuies, or ha,fe th · 001·po:rations abandoned t'b at :p raet",c-e of erect ing tl~nemen.t-honses !-A. So far as I haT·e knowled.ge t.Jie~" cont.i·nn~
·t •t i .reut them ,v-l1enel'!"er tbey :fi1
n d 1t 11ooessa.cy or con, enieut, wbeneY- · l~
tlu~~- can obta.in ·;- cupants for the1n a1· ong those em·ployetl in tbe mdls .
Qt You have -:po-e offactorie ·. beingerectedd.uriugth ·· las,tdecad .·.
iu la-r .· e cer1 ·• rs of po,pnlation :; what I wa.n t to kno,~·is ~·h e'ther t,ene1urut house~ ba,.,,e been erect (l by th . o uer of' 'those new factories or
· 1,ilts., :a i.n. o,t ber. instances,.,- A;; I ·s ay I think the prooti·e e i . continued....
By fh,t CH -· 1 . AN':
Q Do yous: a ·e tba _or d·· ell u1>0n it a.s ·i H itself any· gronnd of 0001 ~
1 t4'1int!-A~ Not n ..· _

e~sa1■ily .

Q~ It is tbe ab.1 . -of it that y-ou co:mplain of., is it not :-A. Certaiul:.· ;.
] }n: abuse of it.,
'Th· ( 1HAIR)l'A.:X .. Ot" co.11i.se, . u · bese 1natters which in,-ol,-f the relation ...;
th~.l t ·_· . i~,t 'b etwt. eH • la,. ~.ses, i , is well todhscri'mnate, becaus . harmoniou~
1c 1ing, v.{bi ch is i 1rid'i ·ll n sa bl t,o, obta i.ni n. a n_y· real 1•,e medial aet1ou,
· ·ann ot be, piron1ot d u n l•e.ss w,e are j us.t all rou ud..
will. at; k Jfou, t'he1'e··10.t'"e, v..hether or :nnt ·i ns our belie·t; if' you, a~ .· ab . a.eV"o'lent.man, mean1.n.g
ro do exactJu"ti,ti-e to the emp'loyell as ·w·,ell as to y·ourself,, ·hon.Id b i ·
-ea.pital:i~t going H1to the H1anufactu1.-c· -0f textH · fabrics,!Vt. betbe!l:'" ,c otton or
,,.ooleu, :.~uu wou 1,l uot thiu k. it ind1spensa b,l e, along with 3·our plant in
11 ·.a cbi 111
e1·,Y au(I l l t '\¥ n1aterial, t-o make also prori •. ion for the aieeoium,ocla- .
r·io1 ot your belJ>,. · o tbn-t their boanl and lodginw and the. other aec-0m1no(1~ 'f if!1us ue~ess r,. for 0011 .· euient .a ud. efficient labor should be . herP.
.:,.~ou eould eo·11tro1 tbe.01 to, 'th ext,e nt ot· tbe·il--· 1,ein,g rea>Son:a'b l a~ leas.t
rea on a bl in 1,ricP iu t 11 e degree
of conifort n:tfonl.ed t in saui tari. con.
cl itiou s au d i u \l"lJJ c.l tsoe, er ·wa- JH"OJnoti v•e of efficiency in labor. 1· f' yon
•l"tl not m.ake Ruch pro1\ ·ision wonld Jou 11ot oon :flnd "hat. t)otside indivitluals. lik the 1ne·1m v. ho rnu tl1 · ~, J.ll11ck.-n1e ,- :tore ., or who under the
- 11 iliuary aJ~tion of tbe 1u·inei1,>les ot· bo~man natnre might be iHc!Jined to :pre~:
i11,on you1· h · Jple• s operatiY . s, ,vonll1 clo · o,. and bJ t.:beir e, .actions woul•i
flt.- . oo tliem wo1~-- ' tha,n th . -·ot.Jl ration ·. d.o ort'han you yourself might b ·
;ucline<l to do as own r of the min machi:ner · and 'b usiness; so that
1•,r~ct Icnl l.v., after an, :mnu t Ii e Yer:r best of · not i t'"· e■s 1tnd. for·the.joint iulY~1ntago of t be en1 p1oyer an tl t 1,e. t_.rnplo~ell ~-an (l a1so wi · b ·~Jleci aI r ft t ~
~··1i1ce o ,o oui e1 ienc 01· oca tion Yon u~on Id b obli.-red to m1ak.e .such r~ro ~
, ~i~inn tor tbe·a..cco.n11nod:atiou of you1. hel1J'i1 No"·, a.ssuniing t'bat xou b.a,,1
ilt ue all that,, would ~.·ou uot :ha1"e done sim1,l)~ a ~-udici:oll'~ and prop r
~ h iu jt ! ] f afterw·ard s:. ·o, .\\:,.~,u fa i-·t b er and took ad , . . antage of your 01.1 ern•t 1 \· e~ ,r.ht~u th -y n~ei~ thns locat~fl in your houses-a rad. insiis t ·d tout th .'.\~
~htlnld ~tay tbe1"t~ ho,,.~e,·rr 1nfe1·ior the a~omu_od.·ltions,· or le be cli:s,~~ha.t g;ed rrou1 ·t!heh· aitnations ~nul ,l<~pi. ~ve,l of tbei1~ means of obtaioin1~
.a 1i,. eUbood, e\·eu thougli they eon Id do better for the·r nselves in th . ,··n,r
,; i •i■ com'fi.11·t ol !ii,
11 t~~, 'i n t l1 at •:ia s t 1H3 ·q UPstion won l,d arise vthet her ,,. o t
hlu1 not n1,1>roach d · the. bor;dt~1· Jantl of outra.ge ancl wrong. Tll1is,, 1
li.11 o,r., is rat h@1 a di st•oui·se t 11a u a question, bu · I ,,,. ill uow ask youQ. l\~onld_yon 11ot tbi.u k that tb _-· ca:pi al'b,t1w:a Ju . ti'fietl.; when ma· 1ng
:LIit original i1_
1v·· ·s,truuu iu m:ill p,ro1>e1~t,r,,, i:n ).t·rf?Y.itliug tenem~nt houses,
ft r bis 011 rati \ ·es a·. ".. U.as.· pl- .· ce of labor,,aud i.u fa'°tthat he was under
t l1e 1100 - 'i -~:- of doiug ~o ?- -. Tlu~re is cei-t~1.in1J, uotbiu.g 1.n th.er,. lations
l •~tween la.b or anti capital or in the law,s of the.State t:ha t would.forbid or
}t•r e,- · nt any corporatiou, rw-bether it was eugag,ed ·n ma.nufac ·ure . _· or in
Jn,~ ot'he:r :i udustr!t, iron1 going into the. re4Jil estate bu ~.i n1ess,. and in the
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

KELAT.I.ONS

El'\'.\t}JEN LABOR, L'\""D CAPlTAL.

ea .~. you ~u ii.pose, the,case of a phila~t~ro~nst ~r a .i;w·r sou or- ~ corpo~t i~u
nc-t uated b3' good and generous ·mot1v·es, it m 1ght ue ad,~uta,g eo .is both
m
·o him and to .h is 0,1,erat'i',-res hat be should p:-o .i.de these.t•eueDtent .,and
that thej• should occupy them. But so far 38 the object is to restrai·n
tb.e freedom of fbe o:pei:atixes ,a\n d g,e t ,coutrol o,Ter them, I. do ·not tblok
t bat com.es ·.. ithin the scoJ)e of the m1.►loyers'' ri.ghts Tbe iuclindualit'v
of the opemti., e_s'b ould be 11~r,." ~ to the extent of lll:i:s ba,:ing -oo,ntrol
◄ l'fer his own .a-etious after ~•01·kiu1
g-liolirs,,and the great._·t roub]e.- as shown
1~y the (Jnotat.ion whieh I h.a~e read (row this :, .· . J>Ort., :s that that i ' not
oi1tioual l\·itlt the 011eratiYe in m,aHy in ·'lances. If I were au empl.oyer
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·1ctua.tetl b_y pbila.nthroJ)\~ J -boo1d doubt l~ss, ·p rovide such.
~np rior aceo,utnodatioos for my ·. ·m1,l,loye·:"' that the,v ·would take th : ni
hJ pre.fereno ·,, bot dou''t th.luk that in auy iust?,Il .i, · i : is _niece sa.r:v- · ,,
:niake i· oom11ul ~ory that• peoJll . · -·h all liY'e in my hon .e if they ,vork fot·
1n .- , or ~lse th at 1J1ey tiha 11 ·01·k il t a disad ,~antage.
Q,.. Yon a.re uow SJ) akiug of 'tb ~ J,e;Rse · of tb t u m u _l.1ou -es. He
i~ obl.i ~tt, ~ron sa3,, to a«. -ee to fu1·ui .· h a certain n.u.mber 0f operJti,~es :; tbat is. tbo uoutlitiou of tb · l a@~- 4··ow·, '"sit uot quit· a1~11areo·
that vri.t.l1out some sucu, oondition .all tbe mill t . uenu~nt houses, miu:h·t
<iom:e to be oceu1,ied b} 11erson ·w }10 W'•e m not in the em ploy of t'h:re
111,ill (io·111mn.' t, aud tha -bu.~ the object in recting t bo.sc 'tenen1ent~
1uig·'ht l•c e.utirely defeated, ~ause tbe lactory mi,g h.t be so _s itq.af.etl
·t hat ~ccommodat1ons,for tbe labor e·m pl,~)~e{l in it coultl no,t u"eH b fouiul
tt-e·wb --e ~-A- .I do uo't tbink t11ere i.s any pe~ceptib]e danger -, f that
-c ondition of atla i:1· ..,. en Slli n_g,.
QI Ha:,te J~ou au)~ e,-hl •1nc ·. t.bi1·1 t those eonditiou , ia the leases aie
uot placed tber,e to avoid fhat <lang-er ! - . , artial ~. , p 1·haps, ·i t 1n~11r
1,._. f«.l'r that purpoSP.. 'The I os 'ibilit~ · of that dauger nut . ·h at' ; oecu/rtttl
to tbe Jleopl ·w ho ·f rawre d tb< ]eases.. If you would permit, I w·on~tl
Hke to reatl a desc1~i.pti(u1 froJD th.is sa.me .1-eport of some of the tent 1uent~.. One of tbe members. of t e present N'. ,v York :1¥,g i lature, l\lr.
.-loseph D· btlunity, -o f T.ro , was . ·,;ie ed from a t~nem,e nt tl1a't he ha~l
Jteld 'tor yea115. und r a-lease from t.he Harmony Mills, of" Cohoes.
I iea(l no-w 1·1"0Ul the TeJ>O·F t of the Massachusetts bu1.-eau of l,tbor
s · a ti.s ties fo1· 1~, pag,e 27 2, in relation to tenem ··nt . in Fall .R i ,- , r:
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One oft lu~ 4J. H •::stion k, ask,,. d. t I . 01 -• ta ti \"e!l v.~a -t what is th.:! eon,U tion of th€ \\:" 1r'k · u ;;·t' ,·a~

· in th c i:r h01.nc.tS-·J

'fo·,J ul~e, l ~- t•htir ren1a ~ :,. the ii'f · · · o_f i~-~ir l~ouse.~ a;s, d~·eUinp:s ~ .as _c erta_ip'! y
·- o:na.-,JE-. A gre·n'l; n111au,:,'" a:sserted. that man,- of ·t he mill 1•0011,J~ •hd not .h av a r,.- ·peeta.b e- pl«tc=e of abode, eS(lkhtH,) t 08 . '\'\"bo I.hi· ~dl int .· ten :1n· nts tha , t.elo.ogr~l
t•otbe liti:.U&.. Th ·. ,,·.Qs,mu ·:h comi~laint alJou·t t.h sanitary c.o,nd.itiou, a. u· U • s, tb ta<:t ·t ha ·~,. ~any o,f ~·b e :ten.ements: \l7,P.m not , :~pl:'lied wiU1 ruuuh1g '" atur. ~ The , :- al!J]lt~.
,o f t,h e 11,n v'lt · rieeet · ed u1ui Inted.,coud1!nn1at1ou,. many o.f t b.em sa1~1 to e1u t fo I OOOl)i,
·, ,·bi 'h o·u was1rm ,e,ummcr , igbt~, \~heu .a ll th · w·~ndow s ,o f the · tu~rneut- . \\ae,r e opeu,
,. barged UH a tm.o-, :phere ·n· ~ f'h uox ~ ou · rrat. -' s _and 1nad · it t,Uln1g a:tul n ill uz:;e:a tin::; .
One v:e ·,·er ,·i ~t,..,d spokt'l: urre ·en~edly of th@ so-,e aUed tenem ut·~hou.S@, nuis.ane•
though. his ar•artuurmd \\~•ere in .~ .eo1ulitiou, ,elean,. an-~ ~ad a .~ u,~l'-a,ll.'f.' Hdy app_ea.r ~
}l,100; ·1 nd; .aa ., rule1 t
su1r(H1nd1u,g s, ·w e.re mo .· ,e omplain@d of than the 1lvn.. l~n1g."
b •m·l!iC' l ,·es.,.
A,_ 1•hu1 ,'[ 'WftO,WQS Ctn[)]o:red in one,offb ■, mntsth: ,t oo,r " :be r . pi1t~Uu1, au0ut' ton·u
-of ha1i~.i ug sume · f tlte ,,·u- ~t. bowsetS,.sai<l in snb:·ta;nce:
:-The te·ne1 ent. ,tbr-oughont the cit:, ,are in a '\~erv ·poo,r c•oodit:ion. Tb,,, rea~or. · whr.
I !h;- e il n ·t hi ,o ne j9, b t-9 use I ;;l.Rl compeUed, toi; Coto 1:1111 iO•D . . ll -. d 11,, t bis, 11) n] a1ul
,,~hetihct tl1e manufactur· ·" ba,le ·U1 le~al or th~ n.1or.a l :t i. rht to k e1_J us ·in tliei -·
100 • . .I do Pot k i~ow i l ~ut I th.i ti k: it i~ wrong. The , ink is in the csorue · of ·t b ~ ,JiOOll
whu:b ,l' _. l _ "-_, : OU!" ·1~,-in~-r~n11 ~J1ning roo1r11, -~.n~ kihth.,~n~ T~~ ,c lo ·ts :~u t 1~ ya(~ l
.m ~ Yt=fJ~ ball, : tl tb ·1r odor 1· U1 · r ... v •r. ~· or plea ant.. The.re. 11, a byllra:0 t u t'lrA
~·.ara to wb.ic·h we .an ha.\"C to ~o for drhikilDg-1\~a:t,e r, ba,·'in,g: DOD-e in d !H!'' hons~ tbat i:,1
tj t to. dri u k. 8hr rt h•· a fte-r i '',t lock any n i,~ht ,ro ~ can ,_ -e a Ii 11 ),f 11 en, ~ .·0w ,., i,
=i[l
r ...,
~- a. 1d b1 ¥ . w·n·it in~,..
to g--et
·,b~ v.: at~r to 1· .. · for t'.1.rhh{ ~
F"
"-'.ii• the~r r n rn • m. de 1 , it h JI1-.a i.t
,
?n . and ,e , _kin·"'· In .l::ll,gh1ud I neve ko e,~ ·w hat a ten1.. ment hou e wa~.. No in~d ·!·tH"·
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

, O'W poor the1·m an _'h e ,a lways Fell ' ed a, litHe house ·U•at he called hH1, o.wu,, wbit·h be
,~eup ed w~· h ,o:ol,y hi1 o n family~ 'T be 1 -·1i, Hieut house ie pn11ely an. Ame·riican n,o"tion , ·t hat we Eng~ h people do not ad.mn,:,,. and when we are compelled to Ii.\~ in ao.,c h
llon869, wbe:t her we, like- i t o.r not, thie, lnml u Jj • .aJl the hea,,ie.r to ·bea:r~ Then. in
Engl&Dd t:he law ahvaJ8, steps ~,n n · re . t ricts t be con1s"trutf.i,ou. or·a· ]t bonse, · - re
the-rooms, and. · s-1~eciaUy th-01slooping· a·mla1'1m.e ·ts, arcie h.~~ t_11an 1.0 f@et .i n hf'i,gbt.
This ·r oom vou. nr-e in is Jesa 1:han ~ fe r, an.El in '0 :e 1r_p, e . ~,t or ies I uo.de·n taud that it
~ Mtili lOl\7"er, o tl1~t if tbey eb,o uhl build, dl\m
eJUn.g houses for operatives ,~ tlJey d.0
1m Lo . ~It t,he 1J1u l ders '1'.r,o -JJ sa ,. e euougb on t he 1nmbe,r t~) ,s te.a.l another- floor~''
.!\. wea.ver ·w ho, ha<l been worki u"' i the n1 i1ls h · re for snm,e Jean said. the.'_ in his
,11',:i niou th e,o ,lition o. · tl1e t mt'Ril -hts nud tbe 1P o-p,me lh·ing fn. them was very bad.
lu .l la,n·. Jb -~t ·r N .. H.,, . I ,e,re J1 · ·h.a◄ ll rncien1dyv ~[te~.1, .be notetl tbat t ..e 8tat"MiH.s,had.
some dweUiH,(t-ho , .s es that l\"f i ·_ ·t bit·t,\-· y -;n":) old and t1Ul1 •· ootL rile ·t , ntni ·n -· co ~i-·t •d of a dining-roon1, kit~ :1 ru, t\\:-•• 1 , 1!- 11oom:s ,.lown .. tairs,, and two room1110 the,
attie, be~ ·ild._e,a separate Jard ; t lu~se ·w er,e l -t for ', .· 10 per mob th. He saw so~ei new
Bin. Je, llonses tha,t we-. 'bebnig built of Lr"'ck 'to aeeom,moda . one ancl two :f amilie ,
W'hu~h. were to bt, I t for 86 and ._,1 a ·m onth., I . co,mrp&riso:n. with 't'biO- p _ices, paid i:n

FaH River, be 't hoo.g ht the abov-~ ~ ere ,-- er.. lo ,. He co,n -ed.,ed f a:t. the Granite Mi -~~
h.ouees w1re tib.o best in the c ~.,., ,, bein « th·an a11d r-· ee11Uy ·rir\·erh,a,u.lect and ttntn-ated.
he -ower t-eu ·_ ·1meo ts eon sist of a varlur- k ~·t c-, e, i, t' .. o ·ma 11 ·1, ·d-r <Hus, an.( . a p-antr-r .
t.he 1:ent bein ~ .$4 _· · montb ~ The np1• r t n .m ~nt ·w as mine b1la.r .. ·r an , much better 'in
e,-~ respec~, and f~ t hi~, they now eb,a:rge $6~00 .Pf'r mou b,. Irv~ yi - are ago,, w'h n
he li \'ed i t'.I U1ese honseA~ he 11a kl $10 fen· tlurr. lll.'p per tenemeu t. ,a nd h LS a.ve:ra.p w&ge
was 812 per w _ ·k~ H·e tho~,"'- t _t - at f ~ hou~s ,o f tb Mercha·nts' Mannfactmi.ng
~ ,o mp,a~.y .w re__t he _w -o mt i 1J -~he cit_,~... J-1,e ~o.11de~n _..· I. ,. t E;e_pn_
v i!~ ~f~ t~-~ GranU-e -a,~· 1ng that, mxteeu, hoo s use 't be ·a.me on~~ wlne'11 ~s, ,c 1·, 1ded by pa·rht1on:9i,and be ,st:att-s,
that 'the .s:te.n.ch. in snruruer is un beara blit·.. Anoth. ·r weaver said that ·t he oon,l itioo o:t'"
·t he, mUl ,o pera _ivea in tbe,1r bo1nes l..., no:11~ , 01 t'he best., Hep. JS '9 .f or .a , tenement of''
four rooms, wll"'_,eh a,.• , .. _ry w·arm. in the ummer., 'b · nig n tto ·t e. roof. ·H e 'l'hon: --1.n:
th . re . ere some ~ l t .ncltl,e nts. 'mo11~ tb n1U d 'wel1Hn1gs,, but ve.r .r few, t he Granit
h~uaes ·p ,r ob h 1y ranking as t he bes ,.. One ope:r t1 ve, a t~,p in -- r, need s~g lan_
gna,:!,
w ben speaki n~ of the mlll, ten1ementSJ., He ha4 - kiticben,, two hed.-1\'00m ,. a,n_d , < · , a.sDr,oom, au,d spoke 1b~ t t :rlr of ~he ~a c' · Ula t: ~uch ,e lo~ 11 nart -n ·h ~ a de~o,r alizhig eire _~t
Oi tbe Y. oong ~,f b l.S .fu DU l . l t 1 . l ng nec,t . arv for h 1mself and ·w1fe, OWi n.g tt.O t he sma1l~
ne.M of t ·h •ir_sl - pio.g -rooms, to d.ress in the ki cbe· before th . iJ·m: cbUdre:n, o - e lrJO)
,s l --er,i· ~g:_in the kii. ehen, w~le th~ t~,o -yc,~n~er ,eh_"id~n, b , - _~nd: _gi~l,., el~pt in t'be
ma U r onl.-mom. ,An,otb m,a n, a Joom 6 x . r ,, ,c omplained of tae d1iferenee hftt.w et>n
t '· house, pnt up f0r t-b e ' -br;.~. ' an,l th0se used fur tba operatives. In the la.ttermueh oompla.in t w ~ · . heanl frnrn a u H m b . ·r of tbo re ,'i d,e nts oonoorniog the air, hie b
'88 a~ t.b~1·. ~m -. of th a;,en,t's ,·i.stt q1f te fl·olm, th~ pri~,ies, .which no.m.h ered six_t,~~.
•m pt y ulg 1into a. eesar-ool u1 a swnmi1p, on the OP}lOSJ,te ide of the roa,d , 'Dill ni nn u1 ~
t-v·,.rr iu to 't bo s ·a mp .
· · $pi __ ner m.one of the Central :UU8, u-·h) 'h· d. a,.., rr netl.t -l ooki.ng :e ueroeot, thong-Lt
that a,eady all o-f the miU t,enftnun t:, ·w~re ! u ii"t, to li,~-a lu..
·
Bntt;; 8ai.d he, u ,y o1111 take whole fa1miUe-a-, like mine, who wor-k l n the miUs aud what
benefit d,o th y derive from a home I They are ou ly ther-e, at ni_
g ht 'to, s]e
and (Ml
Sunday, .: uld. to sn,c b one k iud of a ho u "6 is a good. ae a.no ·h . )'.·.. T11e·r ~ ar "1.10 esoi·~
po,rt· ticru. bolU'dHl"'.•hou · s, only tenements - and I r.lo no,t 'think t-het-e is any lar,g;."-~
boar-ding-ho,1s, _in the~ ·itf. _· h~ is., ex~lai-ued hythe fact t&atthe help i~ conrpos cl
mo t y -o f f _u1.1 hes,, wh1 I@; n ow · H a n.dl a' ·re·n ce t_h_ e ar; mo,r e of 't he s1 ngle help ..
Boarding, is a cH.s,t h1,eUy American no ~ on.. Yen OO' dtl n~ bring over , n e t.im ear:g o
~ '.f 1
s.ing-te EDgli!8-h wom . n t-o w,o rk in, U1 · mn . for t.be g i r1s il o the, ultt ,c ;ountrr go oo t
to service 'b ecome dom ·atic aen·ant, • Your .American g'irl, howe,. ,e,, goes iot:.o 1L
mill ; ,.'she \\--ant~ _!o _ie 1~ a , 6 o"- , ~ne k _t b.at Jl _ J' free. fo~ t be ba,J ~p~ of the m;h1t.
.Amene,a.ns are v·ery r~w Uli Fen River; hut I th~Dk that 1r the mdl]s had Amencu.!l
b . Ip, to deal wii(h they eo,1dd, ge·t on n:u1ch b@tt.e r,, for the Am ,r htan is provfrbia fo ,
his s·lill.b m1uion,."
'T his, &,,'me mau. said ..
~-= , ~nte a·f.'8 l" ecy ·h i! h ·h ere, and ran~ ·f r,o m ,fi' to· 115,[}N month~ l pay ~.. 50 - and,
m~a~e, '9~ an .B'V em~r• .. 50 ~r w@ ~-~ .. ' ?,!Y wife an~ t';o ~-n~,e~ _i.n~re se thi,. ~0
about $29 a, - eek., ~he1reason I do not ] 1v . any w h ·:OO e] . llS bee a use the m anufac t- ~
urers req·oJ ·t hat th.e operatives shall Ii e in their houses, and I am .not eo foolish
e t.o risk being· disc ar;g-e d a.ntl put OD tbe ,:mack-li.A,t merely beeau _ the, rooms · ,
am all ; th.e ~ ~re hirg,e ,en!uJ:h !or tn.fi , a~~~ l can save mo,re. moD@)" .i"n t-h i · way to Ur ,
en when , fe and r get too o],d to work.'"'
Ju cloe"lng W', , t t'he o-p erati v . ·h a v·-e to, ea.v we ·'J·nole ·t h · or-,~uioi1 e-xpre · by ~u ·
of the JD08t i nte I ig:en t :
_
i, Tbe 't enements. of 'the pas anrcl o·f to-tla; arr-e '. e ,., bad, · )nt ·hP . are gro,w .ing 'I ter; and ·j~ is 0 101I_)~ right t.~at ~--hE"!l a._Bpirit of' im~ro1,•,e,1_ e 1·t i~ show·n o,r,m ~ part r!
tbe maDnfa <"tu re.r-~ :tt tent 1flrJ sl I Bn1d 1, e ur.:i w n to 1 t, :uul who know~ hnt ·1n fl 'D le t 1-~ ~;

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nt ·Uu· h~··n nu~nts . e no , 11: , · n, e.tl. a go~l . a kin~· 111 Th ·
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«-on,e on 1_h pri n.e.ipl that a:n:f phu· t good e ,,n1([rh ,o t lie op
.-r~tthte . tu live iu :u1d. ha · bun- ,A •( rdh1 i"'Wy.. \\"'e are too_ poor ·o k 4:·p o·- r lv,e
, ]t"anlli apcl nn1 t pu 1. 111~ "'i·U , it; tor, J)eiug er a.ht.res nf impu~se., lJo·v rty iU .Hlkr - os
111,,e·an1., :iand no dtnd,t r eh s do ·too.. iJ be Grtu ··re 11,~·us bnv - he b _ t t n ·.m nt' u the
(·ity ·; )".- · tbt.·] ·o_, d ·:m n th'" t u m nt-b:o' J, · f!tt_Ul tbe tHo., t.''
Th ~ ina1:u1f~~,et1 _rf"·r ,., n a :rd~, 1,ok1 · . tron~ y b fit ,~or of thtcir b0.n ·~.s. ,o ne· sa .d.:
· 0 n r t ne1n ·n t ., ar · \"t•1·y :,toe ·d nul .~•l., · ~ bHy ,ve·r..- 1, H ~ 1t t ,t::"Jl or f;w ·•l - ~ J e~L'.rs :t.{.."O,
.n I . lull t -~ h ,ll"0i1'Jl •ulJUU'tion; 1,·t1 t:r) to k e1>· thr .. BO, at
tV -nts.. The 'h Ip
t.; kc ftair enre o, · ·m eo. Of co~Jr e th~ e nre ex,e t"rtious.. · b }nte · '11 , r , te do ~ot;
b •:-.;: do no,t c •t.re :; tlH !-~ g t il1 NKti ·at 'll ~1 ntl. use. their roo,tn ·, · t o gb ther· ,•rere bar-m~,· ,

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·•~i":lf!\r, s."
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ta rk w ,a s t",epe:, · l hy an, fbel.', It -t rn1 rin·,r who sta tfld t'hn t the help do n,ot
:~1•·1•re · iat cl ·f tlll but1' ·t ~ Anc ther; , · bil ,i u·knnwlt f !ring tln1t their t@-1 ~111:ents -. r .
uot as · rrocKl nor a· · -l au . th~ · "\t"O dtl ]1ke · n· ha,~,e th n~... bour-1 bt ·tba1 as a c]ass the
(''I· ,:-r.~ thr ~ · how Po recrard lo:r (;1 au 1'4l•Oui • t.ba the:r de-t oy 1·t ·t h~r than bnHd 1p.,
~All ·~r ~e (I O l ·t his, :, . ,,.,eU a Oll U .. f a.t~t ·;,h~ they w,er . ,f i iin fT then, Il p cou j ll' ll ,.
, t1w 11·r<1" itl ut :il:it I :
·
. , Our lin . · mdl was lnn.lt "o l . .. I l d.lt fou cottage lt(n1 ; e on onJ" land fi,··r ome
~ ,f ,( U.I' h ]p. ~ bll.'it th O[tf=f Llt al"" P . prin . d to e V •@ ry di!l'~Y,, II] _a11y of · h . . .rf-•pt Jl(H11try
iu th e •Hars~ Th .;y do tmJo · s· ow m,ut·b a11 reeia 1i,c n of ·a,,c. an b.ous . Tb · French
".:1 u. 1di au_ in our et1:11
ploy "H" ~ not ne:n . ::-,
-~o mn '" h was. s: i<l of the ·. - a1 it lilt · hon • s th.at th
ateni nt 0f t 'h u·p rint ' ._ 1 I.•·nt, -w-a :s1n1pl~ - ~orrobor:!lti~ . JI _.. id:
· · Th '\"' a.re t ,. Jr,orn;l as " "
o:~ild. Uk,e th -m to b ; in r: c · tltC'1J a . 1 li e be ·:t jn tbe,
,: irJ. a:! in teen- \Ye 1t ~· tius of onr 011 r t·: "'e . ar-e ch,1u·h~iJ!:t)ing p · ,0 1 -lt1, and th J :b a:re
·t lu ~r 11:~i.:ui tt"rs . :i 1! on t l• e·m : d<l ~l! l a. <l s1 re to 11 · ·. "e th Ir ho e . .,o ok w ,eU.. We
i a k -.,oo l ear.~ ot ~l(l~' .h llst,Q, .a nd t:rr to k .rp t <'m in nu.~h .~'t repair·/ '
A l"e', id nt of :"'~ , n Ri r.er, wlu font er}~~ u; -.rk d i.n on .,., nf th - nii l ., sbd: ,d :.
.l ~ · ·t e w iH ,,·,!n t u,p so . rul,i ieul th. l: h •1d. to - ·n JlpUt!fl v. 1th. h Jr,, and tile
· :n 1·k-· boJl and }Joor 110 ts - r,f -n,,o-1 ·ind weFe e11 r1 ie•l of :m :n and "'~ow o, wh.o
d~·w ·,r a b ri -- ·i n u •b liil.rg 'h uni le - tt :11 · b 1a ·n f,t nu~ r ·· h~t' tUy e-r : : ct ,1 IJ1<1 ks of
•t' ~ Pl -n t , in , h eonb· rn ct :oo. of ,,·I1.i _
·'h the)~ ui etl t b :- Jmor st autl -·1_ aJ e~t n1at, ·rial.~
t h·1t th v· eonl l pro(·un~ :No n ·g u:d for re· :.H, l , on ,f-..~ · w~~ cc;o~ulted,,, an.- som. of
! lu· l on .
· . 1 nilt on n1a~ ~-h Ill• incl ,'l:·[u, .h i ~ ; ·u1nn r .·Dd rs th ·p}, ,er. · l~,o ·r n~st
,~ J h ,~alHrv nnt d:i a;:,'T _ a hle • ~~ t ii , ·('nntr."r. ~- Juto 't b ~e lu·, erowd.e d · iabt 1. 0 t o
i: nu i.n ·a n1tl t1 •. e~l them. Uke ·i.ea· t ·. _ n l•P. ior p ices brou ht f b ose Jl 01•le 0-1:- . r h.ere,.
t~1,t i,.- \\-88 t. e \l~ugc th ,y C"i•lUit~ (0,1·,.
rrllu:•re are Jll()J gar-d •11. t bfflt tLes.e ho-nS<'." .a.n.d J
k:.1ow o f n 11lae · wh<'re th r i. , lHw. (u1 , ,~ 1tt.r--t ;u.1 • · ·t o " ~art~ fifrs ·an(lies , w He
th· pr~·•i, -ar~ ·x11: ·ed to ·v~1:dJol,=,., D(a11l. ·at and ··h.iekc:rL an1 other.ri :fH
Ii
.a I, 0 . t 1~~3 rd.le~ '. nf !'be ,c-on1·11ton 1:ur O I ,e ~l tb Int O th . ' f ,e u ·U) , nt fa. ( lie· COi ~
~,u1d. go tln ,1 th · b •fSt. of ·•
. · on · fl:. 1 nth!' unknown,. \\Th n a , man i · en11l~oy ed. b,v
lht· u1iU b• L -on.q1 .U l t, t~OY into t · _.•i •· t -~n ·n1 -nt
'T h ir break~ , de1 ud· <U
-~11~.•h· iuov111 ~ in,, ·uid tb - ir Hfc:: on t b 1 ir 1· c ~u1~- o,u *
he .r ,er. nt str1k . a·f; t!J. · -ltace
1
)Ii IL~ w:i, c:.1 . · d h_- t}u. ·in! t'11:s,: :l of ~ newlr-r--cntlll'fl~ 0e.d 1n:::r 11. to uu),. Olk of ,o., p:tiv:I:' 1·r·•n .•·.HJ , t _a 11~ l i mt{) oQ,P ~l · th · eot,l[1'a ny' ,, H · d i,I no .. eo irler i · ·6 t. to Uv , ·. 10, , o r fu:-;t•d - and. wa. ,-U.-.? •luirg .. d. an•l fil•l1 un otb , t r ·ason. 'T he s 1, I ·w as ·-1.u1.t :b - tir,&
J iU stru k .a:rul f• 1· u ,,·l"t b r n ~a ·on t u.a-n thi, .
Th r i. ~ 10 usi~ in sta tn1 ~ opinio,ns,.
1· gi \-e jon fa. · 't-~·_ 1-· the !. ·:t1-r,a ~a 1Sl''t 1. · ill"l , during t .1 . t I ik nf t"~o y,ea . ago;
t !w e n·por Uon t ntl a ,on.· •l to t n ru all of t bei r ohl •Ol ern..t h"'@ · n l on tb . 'f ~et, a.!J·d
1i n o,r,cler· t e> do th i.
Jt n. · I H1 · i ,r h !·1 · m n ts to their up r in t lld. n t ·w ho made a ,de,,
n1aud fo,r . b ent. T.hi -, nor. hcing a.ti ti d, b.e ()1 oc decl to QI!): t lie t ,e n "H lt -' by
f , rt:t"' <t la·"r, u~11·, h u~as · cc '-'l: •:iH !1ed ~·ft ., due uoh.,e e to, 1:-;;t at · ,'ras. . r ed. UJIOD ·t bo
1u· '11,l,ess, op~rnri re ., 1'h · t ,eue:mc.ut~, ar, in bnd ,e tn:ulition~ Th y ar,e bau. wo,r ally,
n ... . -,....u .na ir~ a a1Li't. r ml• lill't · f ·, , w ~1\ ,,,
e RAN.I TE MILLS ~ EU IT .-Tl s hou e loo L.. , .. ery nttt·a tiv _, bo;. b in ..id . :u-d
1: 111 t s.tan<liug on · -~
_nnr nrat:i.,·t~lr high g:ro 1nu , an<I all ~1r · ·ecn1,i .1 .No.. 4:t T1•,-·mont
', r •et ooz.u:;i· t .~l of" a block. of four t n ro 1Hs.. Th.e Hr~t-:ffoor 't u,emeut ,c on,i ·ts, of
th·n-1e room. -a li,:-i O'-roon , a kit het 1 a b tl-.r •l tn, and n pantry (aft r tbe Kin,g
Phui··1, p1 sn). Th l" i a1 · . · · U nt ebanc :fi ir v,- ntit t,i,on but the low . ·r tenem~u-.
·i ' , ..,t:1'J'.Y eo,l d in wi:at 'r, tb loo · beh g of ingle, t'hitkn~s , and a. larg ,_ope:11, hnt dry
· ••l la b n L,mth ·, l' ,n ·· , -$ 4.50 p. (Ht .th.. Tb
· . on~l-ftoor -~. iil(lrue1rrt co, is -s ef a Jivinarno1n, a kiteheb, a • .~roow., a pantt'\: 1, nd three attic ·room.~, wen v 11.t:UaJed aud
J1,g bt d; Rut tor I i t e ll · t,, , .6. 00 l ,. r 1nonth. There i - no . a.ter in the houses,
e hJ~a ts ~~ug ,oh~iged t~ ,o bt~i~ :'u tha,~ ·the_y u~ for__tlri~'kh1g _or_famH~ purpos 9
at a. h,y dra.n t u1 th . l ant The pr,1vies .&re 1n the . 3rd, and am mn.r h morn rt.s,pecta,.
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

66

UE.L.A.TIO NS TIETlVE 'N LA'BO·R AND CAPITAL ..
1

~•1 e i 11 tii1 : on• r of t 1f r, f ~1,e rs . ,r,n ~ _Tll.0 ·r an1s a re ~ len ·t1.. ~ome of the b~:u s 11 ~ va
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been that thi.s ~ame. co:nd'it.ion uf
afli1i1 · • ~xi - ts iu n1auy of th u1unu.iactu1·in~· tO\\".U . • I -HI -a - ·, bo-wevfr,
tl1 at I . ~-t ir.··r (iU("it:_ is bet t l~r a~ T4}1,!,nrd~ flte co11tlition of the miJ 1 or1er ·l ti , Tt S
tllau tlU.'· (m·ty iu 11:"!('tU"·t l O \1·bh.:h 1 'l n1,·e 11!-~Hl tbis. e .. t ·act., nt ii Ul~__ uy
oft u_J, s1 Mt 1le1· yi,l ~ri "-~8 tl1c1·e ilF·e only one or two 1niHs. an(l four or ·ti" e
bl,, ck.-; -n f tt~ u _,,nr1e1 t.--iOll~l~S . <: t fbe·s
ie un~-:n'lita: V conditi-nn> pr :yaiJt
Ju YP ~et u tlu min n gr·, nt rna1rr of the .-~ ina,ges i 1 N·ew Eughuul..
Snell .h onu s •~~tnuot he :n1ad(~ at'tra~tivL l.un,·e~ er runcli the indi,ridual
f'ilS'f · N. t)f -~Ju~fan ilie·~ occ•i1111yiu:r.r· s,)ru - ii'ng1 ~ t nen1eut . 1ni~ht in . Hne tiOmal~o 'tht"ln ~ o, l,eecn s ,t th~ cont'Ution of tbe lo,veKt, most ignor~ nt aud
most fUtlr} orfte,r t~ all thnse w·b.o ffrfi: old.i;! ~l1 to h 1f ,•l. ·i11 the s:nn.e hou· e
wi·t·h t l1eimn -. nnd llt e~ ~s~ i-i'IJ;-- a le,·l',J 1. - :••om 0..- l,y st' ·1ek after a \i\ '.l tile·
tlla is ,let-r·inu.-utal in t l1e hi.b hest degree to the refi ·- n'au~nt and tl1e
,oou1fort of ho1ne Ii te
-, .y :i\l . GEORGE:
Q.. I'-:.- tlJ (.: le ,:--t-l ·i 11 c; l n·ocess aown W< _rd ·t o the lo we·Rt ,n r up,w.·:i·r d. t~ • t be
hi,.rb{~I. .. ·:\ i It i ~ Jt ·nel'tlUJ..r clov-,·u1\~n1'd1 'T1utt it reiu~hes. the lo\,;egt
pohrt-I
.n ot s:.1,:\-; but 1u~~E.,: .sil ·ily t lu. "Ondition of th~ ·10'\'!e~. u11u,·t
.aft'ect the contli tio n of the bet't ..r r~la~~ of 011crati, e,!4;, I fi.n .I tl1··1 t tbe
,~atn(:i. opin:iou.s ex11re~sretl h re by the or~erati ,•pes in ,,i. II 1-ti, er a _-e ~01nuulu1:r l;tihl aH o\~er .~ t :w Euglaud~ The e Jl o J1]e ~)bji ct to being oom11 11 d to
iu w·~
n t~n~meu'ts .. 1'I< n_y of the1n,, uf eou1·li-e., ~0 h,· ~ 1.n
tho •; · tenement~ ·, ~oi uutarf :5·, 1.Ju.t it is tl1e iute1.feoo11c1~ l\ itb tl ·-e ir right
to c oo;.;· e for t bcni,s 1\Tt · that is _s p . ci aU Tco1u 111ai ue<l of~the fact t ht _t
tltt-·) r 3 ' ~ - COH1.'J l1'H· ·tl to live wh . re t.he · en to Vlhow they sell tl1e·ir· J,tthor
w'ish tb.a-t t·h Ji' shall H.ve.
By tLl - CHA.Ilitll N:
,Q · ou sa}~- that th r:n11loyers u ok-e that a couditi.on of th,e eJnJd.oy..
m ut of operat:ive81- ..- . , 7 hen t · e corporations have ,--aca.n.t tencmeuts
they con1n1only mlo 11 a]; · thcit ft• ,con<litioni O oourse he aee.<on1moda
tio1i .; son1 ·ti1_u,--,.-. ar , uot ,sufUci ..·- n for· the ·w hole nou1ber of 011era:ti,,..es,
and corseqnliutly Rome. of tb: ·m are n,ejeessitated t-0, hi1·,e tenement~ outid,,~, aud in ~o.ch cases the tu.l e doe8 u.ot holti good.
Q.,. ._·an ;run Rta e· b,ow tb 11,r.ic. s cba.rged ·i or the acuO'mn1.odati,ons
a.ftord,e<.l by tb . ~- t - u m. ut.s cow.pare ,lit·h. 11·· -pri.ces. for .aeeom.mod,~itions.
obtaiue,l. -outside .·. . . . . A. On_v so fur a-, I have be .:11 i.nforme,l bt.~J tho e
wbo 1·ent tbe ·t enements~ -The·,d.- : av. in n1.an ,r iu - t:tnces. that th•t ,~ are
not ubarg1 . d hi0 b r rents han hey woul:tl .h a·v·e to 1,a.y for ontsitl - t e·ne•
1n ent . ·bu·- th ·-~r "" ay - l -o tbat t ht'!,Y can not get as goml teue1neuts. from
the mill o"·ners, for the reas1,n's I b,ve given, as t]1, ·Y could ge't 1."rorn
o l1t.1·s if 'they ,tere per1nitted to e -,ereise. their o,,. u free ,choice! In ex ..
t,e nuatiou o:f thi - co1u.ht1ou of th ing;s i·t ma · be s;11d th:at t.h .:r e is llr ,~er.T
'i.m11ort. 1ut t Iement of the 11ill 011eratives. wbu hil,.~e a larb,e iufl.lllt!Ute
nt)OU the g,euera.l mabn ·ll,r of Jivini:-,, and. io regatd to w·bnm i _11u1.y be
·u ,ee- nry to aa ~ ome'th1 i :i n COl"Uection wifb t •is sul~i1eotio J ·v. i ·b to
reatl a pa1~graph :from l\lr!! Wright's r . po.rt for 1881, pa_
ge 4ti9.
e-sayzs.:
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T.hiey e-a n, nothi Hg for our imatitu:tione, el~il, poUf.i,ca1,. o·r ,edu eatloua1. T·he. . tlo, not
com.e to ·ro n.~ e ho:m,e am oog as, t -o d we l
i1·b ua as, ei · izeos, ~tod =--e beeonu.l - Jl."lrn
of n;s , but t.lleir· pnrpli>se is me .ely to SOJOlll'D a fev. .· yeare as ,a li · Ee_, tmtching us only
at ~ s.ingl~ 1·u1,h1t,, tb_n_·t. _~f ~ 01k,. and wben. tltiey .bav g.o.t&e,red_J on_.-.f o.e wha.t "'~HJ
satisfy thrilr e·n_ds, to g~t t-hP a _. .:. to l\f·ben ~e t.he, can1e . ud be:stow lit th.eM. 1 b -yare a .bord_,e o:f i d klatri 1 in v.a.J,er.t1,, nclt a , ~ _:rea01 o,f ' stuJdo ~ .ttlur&. Voting, wit.o ,all
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

67

RELATION'S B-E TWEEN LA.BlR A.ND ,C APIT.AL

fl . n"t it iin-pre~ they eare mothinig .: i'bont. ·R ar 1y •<loc O·D ~· o.f'ii,h<"'m. beco-mc nat u·alir.P~.1 'l'hey win not. se1ul t-hei,r ,c 'h ildren to srhno if tbey c.:n1 b ]p, ,.t. . bHt P•h avor
t ,o ·1-0,,.. ,1 1 b ·1n int.o tbe mill ' tUi t,h · arU , ,t possible ~ i•e
'1'4 do llij:\ t -~y ,d 1c{li\,~e
uhou.t tbe ag:e of tl1ci1· chUJJ~b \\ ithJ..1r:J.Zci.l e.tiront,ei-56 'The-y dee iv also a.Loot thi "'ll°'
,st-b,oolh:glf ~l; lnrln,g tint. th ,y ha.\ - b .en to ,s _·bool t.be · .e gal tinu~, \\7'h -·n th· y kuo .:v
·tlJ1PJt l1a,-.it1: no .a.nil do not ir t ,1 d1a, th~y sban. Aut.l. wh · n ·n't lc:~nnt'h tJ1 y ar•· curne1.-e,1 ·b y tb.c ·se.'11.~ol uffi ·• r~; and t hl"fl· ~ .1.1n '1t'her f'.·,e·a.p oft.on t b ,. . cr.ahblu toigt"fla·r
1·be fc\\" u~h.:1J t.he;v L,!Hte· :n (1 'Jllff\"e 3Vf' ' f" t) ~01U,P. o-C-he-r pl:11 e -xh , re thf"~.. ru·c1 1H 'k n.o\\·11 and "'YI 1ert:: "t' ll~··. - bOJ ·· hy n 1 . 11 ··U1 i ·1,·n n ,.- 1 he f.:il nu,u le ··t:"' its to est a1J1e the · ehuu]s
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An( " ~b •~, m:; iR hul_~-·l•d
snn, ethn • ti .. ·,; t· ·e I any o ·· ·t : :.n1 tn·m ~ -o it na · rl that tl1 ·.v- cannot, e.sc~ 11~ a , all - th ·u
th ~ ,gto!i4l in~Htr~r ·he o~· t r · ebH,lreu v.~~•it - ont th t·1 : ,.b ·,) ·it'ib. ,,rl'r~tii ~ ··•.ws , u lie1
a.o ~dl _. ta· .k. _1'}u· , fh "4~]•lt !l.:i,•,_;. <,n · ~om_l tia1t~ 1'1 .. nrie h 1ih ·ft t'i~ahlc, workf''t"S
~lDU ·t.lOCH@.. AU t !li:t•)t n~.li_ 'i:s t lh~ 'lf :H \:l"Ol .k r :1ud tlu ■r lirt'lt; •C'~ ~ '"' who ~ ..des ibl· .1 uir
ll0'\'\7' th .y arc 'l "ld.t·d.~ lu - ~u-.• un Ut \\ .... l 1 )" lJJ. lnia.tt ·i[" bo,r IU~,(.1 1/ b, t.H.\ ' uf toU, bJ
'iv .. :iiu 1l ' 1un~ ' ,., µ:n:• ·r l.:.· ,,.· .- \" -· 0 1 h~t OU ~of tht~ir c•n'Hing~ tlu'y nwiy
•1·tl as, 11 h,
for ]i,;,•jni~ :t· I- •~~. -il ,l. 1, aud. to arlll·,~out •Of t1!1t:ii ctm1_.trv frl1ot 11,,-..- ,... ,nth '1· . ·a v~~tlris
is tb ·· ti'-' (ft ht-: ·C· lJ uli. u1 J,~1-.·u ,~h in our f::1 -,.. ot\? ( li.:tricts.. . ncid nt"tUy t.hty JHnst
·h ay ~t1m · .OJ.ii.UH ·l.11 ·· ! '~ aud ,~ ~ , J:: lr a ·· 1h · :n1al · at ,. !Oil ·- ·•· rwtl d1· nl u1g and 1.nokin !' aud 1,c-Hnl ~·i 11 ~ t· u.~t' i U! !' ~ 0 w · niu , ,f tlu.1 ~ ,. X,, \l., it, h~ no.,. "' :i ra : •rp 111 at w ~o .; .i
.a nd lo,,- •, 1••i· .rp I '~ ~ ii n 11 ~l · 't Pt'Ji · n c.·or r· i•oud h g 1:tr-cd i.ng i u tl e ~HU a e'. '"l'S,. ,an.a t 'l:m{t G
t'he~ ,5,}1 ,~dcl .f.; 1 thnt fbc l( UJ,.,(;,r I he lM)Uf, - 1~-1' ' n, ·11 r 'Jl•l' tb Ii ttt·r .a ud tlHH . (t
,\·01rt ~ ·tllel11 to flu , lJ U , !l; t in.~t j!'!,, ~•'hou:t 1h ~ onl). ~ut ,I u ·u I b· .r ca u bi lJ. ~t to;o X 01· l~
~t ISU·.;fn.~ ·• t :,,a d l'i ~ h -~,·r t s~·lifi 1J · .: so ,·n·on ~ t ba.i th i . lil cnrn·,:.. ·r ,o ,. t•I1, ,o k h)r tlH:. 1 it 1e
1~ hjg ~ 1J ·t h · n•~ of fl P. ot, 1•a 1· h ' :·~, a1ul tlJ ink. t:Lat c,·u··.\·tbwm ·r es]u,ul l l l', sl1a pt··l ' to
1 · l ·. \,.•· st~: ,f _·d as .sl . - ·wiul! ·t ht· 1·i;... lrt
i·he l,i ·w ~'"~~t 01rns y ··t ·tb• ~tunt~ Jlrinc:ip]·. n·].1ic..:l
wa ·,t oJ-' contb1(",l imrt ti1 · · '. >ru1 · r ·a·~ •; sbori l(l ~1~r •·c· h 1 1' • ,a l -o~ ,S oei - ! v -bo,1d,1L L,o -ll,1 ·, ,t]~.J
to 11:.n bed t'lr ']~C ,;rtiuu cf 1 h 1•~•iui.1J,-.... atul ,w her ._ U ic; ••nt.ie .n :•fl· i.r:!l, it i·b · la lY-~ ·· hnu[d. b~
so an1 · I le•l ~n11l 1 ~nfor ··u.1 t:im.t th ••.,· pet w.•l•• ,,::H t>ithitr ht ·u ·• rcrtl I n ·u , ·for1n ·.u • nr
l"shl b 1bbetl \l, n ,. or •-l e !!u w he •.f l, ·t he n re.:.uh:- e Hd IU , : E 1.l \\" ., · , u : 1 l t! l'OH 1 U·y l l
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lllie~1se th , u1.
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In cor.robo-rat''on of tbis. portion of llr.. • 1-i~ht' report I ma:; ·u_\l
that tl1 sruntar~. -c··luditioH of 1· an1~ of th.e1t-.11. u1c1 · hou -e~ ·.s. o , h~. in
gre ~tt, 1neasure to th · d.01n :tic habit< _of t'. be FreJ h. Cau.r dians. ,,. ht~i·o
i is I: o,~sibl tbe.-r aJ,,. ,(iy-s r-,ccu1,-.y 1 block ·b , tlu.::u1.el,~p ., b ;n1~e 11 01,]e
of other nation·_ll itit s du not ,r islt to li,·e ,,·:ith r.ll •1n; ll i this. is uot' a.1wa, ·:s po~sib1:e iu th. -n1aller uor11ornt.ions, aull the Iriisli1·1an a1td Eu,glitsh.:uui:u and tbe AnH'.~1i ·a u ari. o cas~oualt, con1peUed to, li,~e 'i'n the
tjatnH house \\'"".Ith · ht French Uanad'iun~ I ha.ve se 11 ni the slt~ei1iug
a.p,a1t1n ·· ·1ts, of the. e 1.1eople rows of b:uu·k s,cor.res.11ontliug to tbos • I lin,=r
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b,eartl described as ~xi:stiDg in San Fr,•iucisco iu th Ul1iue,~e qnart· l' 1
ti ,r above ti ;r, ,,Tht 1·. 'the,.. 1 *]'~ Tl\1~ir ftnnilics ·-lre ,gen1:1rally a.1.~ge: n11,1
tbe ,q uartt'r8 tilt y oct.U}tJ· Ii ite(l, a.u - tbe D.- ce -·. ar " resul of this clos( .
cro"'T-d i. ng is d en101 a 1izal1011 in u1.a u} w~ ·~TR~ It m1ay be justice to the tn.
to s:tnt,e tha. this )'•ortion of :Mr•. ~-ri.0 b _'1·· re11ort a1·01"~l au~on~ the
better cla~s, of tb,-i ltrenel1 Cai adi.au&w ~ 1·eelin., : ,o f ,e x :itew -nt . ~r l(l tLat a1
110.bHc bearh•~· ~~as gi,.~u b~ hi to thu e vtl1 0 d ,siretl to }Jroduce testi•
mony di1SJlF01.:-i11 the ·111ega.t ion·-·. made in the rep : rt; bo·t nearly all tbe
test1mons ~ras tuken ir·uin tb _ bett · r t!la~s of oi~e1·at1,.es ,~ery· little
fron ' 1:hc (~Ot io,n Ott 'fl~OOl( )1 ope ·at1,a,e . -rHor·e fronl those emi,Ioy,e d [u tl1e
boo and RhOfi f:U}torhr-· Hnd r•·on1 tbc rdncated cla·•s of tht:a; peoplt. l~o
gi',-e..~ an array ot· ,~tntist~c.~sboutug tbe J>e•r,centagie ofth~·ir· 1,rote ·in Yai-iiOTIM tO\\: U ' iu Al n. ~uu·bu 'ert~,, :tn,l th.
\me1·~y su1a.ll uum.uer· thn.t -uk.. ' a,l
llantage of the 1n·i·,~ilt ,g:t1x of At11t ritan cit·izl.. nsh11> or 1nt -utl tha·t their
children ~. ~'IH tal; -ad·\~~,uta.g of ·.bose pr·ivde•fe~I "1nd his a:rgnn1ent n1maios, I 'bt~'! it·\·t-, i11 tb.i Yie,v and undf 1..~taud.i ng c1,f'" mo~t of tile 'JleOJ)1e
uf ~ w ·:;ngh~nd, ~-=nlJ·stautiaHJ soontl ancl I nsbakcn bJ th . te~tunon:\""
that 1111ts =-.u1thlc!l~d at tbr1t ~bea"1~iu,g"' l m· ·-ntion this ·1u order that 1t ma_
y
not be SU(JlJO!Setl that tltti Freneb Canadians in. New E ngland are wholly
in th , eouditiion of t l1 o· · that I ba,..e deseri'bed, but the :r ule is Tery· ex
teo···if' ... that that .· ·ondition does e -.ist among tho e of them. l\lho are em"'
ploy,etl 8'..'i t x tile o JJif r~l ti'\ t··~.
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Q. How long is i . sine··. th.e French Cane.dians be ·lt~ to come to our
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eotn "'U" tla:tes "fro1n the, ti1ne. of tbe attem 1~ tcd reductiou. of wages i . e·w
El~la.1ul nnd th~e_ 1-esi tauc_· _O!l th - pa.rt ?-~ tbe Oileratit",eS ..
~ · That was 1u 1871, . think 1-A~ I think s0.
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Q.. li_a,'"'-, .·t~ ,··ou. ·a11v statistic ·, or au:. kuo,w'led.ge of·your own. in. l ·p ; ,.n d-n t uf st~, t i~-t ies, tn sl Iou· the 11ropoi■tio n of t 11 l·se U·ru adht.nR to the w ho,le·

ntnuhe1.· of op@I }It i ,res in the N en"l!.ru,u: I.and lu •"to1i~-s
There a·r n · omu.
8ta ti st i,.8, ~ n .iU r,., \ \ 1i _
g'IJt ~. l ·1st I t"11ort. ~:i,:- i l g the 11~r-ceuta ge of d 1·- ei-en t
nation·,Uti·~ s, ,•rbi ·~ J. ,1r Bl 11 ~ .ud..i u 1n tt r.
Q, ]Ju tht y l't~ • .i'[ , ·(~·f lu~ wl lU("": 01" IP . ~~,. or ]UOJ"I \\T~ge ,t,bau th 0i hers,_
A. Co.u11luJ_1I\ the,· \,·orl~ ,a t H lu,\·•(il" I.it c of '"~a ,"es, becau. e tlte,· rarely.-·
ask the 1>rice tht'_'-~~n·~ to r,i.-•e~.-f \··,_ u ·ht~11 tbpv· ~:n• \. t!n~aac,L ·The~ go to
,'.\~or.k ·" '•·1t bunt 1n ·~1k iu g- ~1 n.v ha r~·a i u · nd ta k ~, fh ,, 1 n t,e tlurt is p,·iid, aud
in JDau;v ,c·r:-,e s ·riu..•:-,t ~ll "t i brt ~u;!·,!, t in to t:1 kP t lu~ l~·1 ac ~ of stri.k,er~,l ::1nd the.
Vt hol t~nd~ney· of th 41· l""tUJt~oy nu.~
nt i:.:. t,•~ r·eth te I h - ,~c:ale of wa_ge~ in
-be. variouR 01~<;UJl )tt1~,11 .~ i11 \\ 1~i,c!1 · 11.e ,~·rake 11n1·'t~
ci. .:\ .· t 11 -·) a iSa \ in 1-{ p~or I .· J)o t bt~·\ coni:" Ju~.:M . o earn n nrl. sn , . .·
a.nu..re1ua.i.1:1 but u. ~1101~. ti111 n11d ·t ~1~ c·r.t1·1•,." a,,ray tht.·i r ~·1., :·1r1gs!-A . So
ft-r . ,8, nr)T -~no, ·1,l'ltl.i,:~ ~o~s, I t biu k. fh=-tt is tlu~~eu~r·.al rul :tunong tbem-tll a1t tlu.~~~sa \~e a11 t lu.~,:v · .;1 n. ~ 11 cl 11 n t out l" · 'I"}" Ii tt I ,., Tb ..·s Ii f. 8 01 a rl.iffereu t kind of iood, u~ n µ;'ft"'u,~r", I tt 1a.r;r, f1'"ou1 tile J;u_,•·H~ 1 or t1le lJ-i~.h ,
or tl1 e .A1u.. r1.c.a H or Jt' 1·u ti,.·l~~ i 11 lj,.,r ,. ,lt les I ue Ht ; 't lU\r Ii ve nior- ecnuon I iea Uy. I sn1.>1~ori.e i . n1av b'- <.~a.H-l•ll •· a1ul ns the.~. h.~i \ "t~ gen ·ra II_ b1r,~-t~
~an1Hit"'~, tht .Y a ·t , n;;, 1 IP, I, t , ~t n l bo,- 1,gl ·t -(\\ reet•i '\ r1 ~,,unn u ag .s indi . .
, -id nan) to .~ .i,t tu.t::"t~thc1· Hnfli,rit ut u1on -~· to rie tn 11 tu (~~uuub . aud tl1ere,
a.~, r IH!t v,"i ;1eeu tohl bv· l ~a 11.:ulia u~., tlu.11v .I!"'!!""',e11er··1lh•..· 111,,·r,~.t their· tru:>uev
•
ju t he 1;1 od, bn .r n f· u·J'U, .·i nd. ~-~ ~ t th. do,,,. u '' :[t htu,u ~ ,,. 1 u nd rshuid
al:--,,,~.I lJcl it1,.. 1t b;L1~ lJ. en ~. a.tt~,t 11:1 ~0111(. ,o f the n -1.-lol s-tba t the:,"\
... '"
l~~.LYl~ a ~n ti i'ty forJnt d thr th
1un"I><n~e ot· liu.;: bl iu " th ~,u to go ba , k to
Ua1r1 d.a tt,n an ti- colou1zu t ion so·ii rv it uu1 v he . n.lletl .. '"' h'i th i.. "n 1,art
un.,,,~1· tl1-e ,~ontrol of t ·11,e I~ -( n1a11 ·.· 'utholic · .· t •1ureb in 011 1·1 la. The cler~s
of that church do -not ,vi·'"h tn Jo~ .·. t bi.: .la r:i;· - a ucl h1111011a n t J>art of their
rn)H · 1·r~a(ons., so tl1 i,~ KO '"it~r~- b·u~, ht t•n ooustitutetl to e nab] · tli1, ~se poo
J•i - to retnl'n autl take n11 llu.. .ir auotlt! in the Jth1ee· · wbel'e they origi..
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nfn,~tnrin§! indti1stries ,o f New E11gla11d .
t). 1Joes your o b~~r\ at ion ~ rr, ble ];ou to 1Stlil~te the a vera ae t r1 g h of
th . ir so ·onrn iH N 'ft ' En;Jautl !-A. No, s.ir 1 it 1\"""o,nlcl be i1n11os- ible
1-or Ute- ·t o ~i,.. ~ :1-u~:tbiug Uke. an .rtccurat ,· tlllS\i.~r to t,hat -que:st.1on, b@can~e t u~1r zs'tuy ·, ~-rir ~..~•s ·. o 11r1.t -i·i:aU_y in diffiere,ut cases~. It d ,~ peotls
ll[tou tl1e s -ze· of tl1c fan1i1:t th . eondition . _. of er - 111oyment- and f.be cir
eu u11gtaucci:s eounec'te<l ,,,·ith. th··ir <lOHU!' ·tic, a.1,rl indu~· trial Hf~- : hether
tht\r aJ'il' -· r ttiu4-, ::do11g ,1reU, stur;ce , diug in 'their n.uderta "ing..
lly- lie C .H AIRM , ·
,Q . l;., ln , ,·Oll stat~ ·, ,·.beth er t ···. y com .· oft,e o to ma.nnfactnrlng ,c enters
i. u ~ uc11 u 111n bel'S and rein a in f'; .r sue · a )en.g tb o,f t.i m,e as to establish
Freucb cou110uui' ·ies, ,v1rth the :r c.b .urcbes, stores,,. anfl in so1m,e 1utStnnces
their 11bl\(~8 o:r a:mllc . --meu·. 'I ~o fUi to make ·p rac icall~ a Frene'h Canadian
co1nmuui1y f......... .• Tba:t i~ o.uu.1;tbu - t.be ,case j - the larg·e r to·w o : ,., an,d ,
as 1 tatet.l bet.ln-e, i is. v~ry o·t lon their ,c us, om in. th.e smaller place.· to
oooupy a gection. or tbe town by them,s elves1 . sev·e ral rows or- block of
hou--"es1 I 'k no that iu many· ·\"""iHages, wbi~b. I passed thro-n gh I was

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

69

REI..A. TIO~s CET\\ EEXi LAilOl? . : ·ND CAPlT ~\.L~

t,oh1 i:11nt R1ch ~ portion of tl1e T"iUage was tb,t~ Frf!ll(~ll quarter or
, ' Frencl I ro,,\,-~ -, or · I; re1 H ~11 b]oc·k ., " 01•· · ·· l1ate , Pr n :1 ni e 01:· that I". iu• l I i~ht
be gi \~. n -o it~ Tbf'~~ ~- -~.·ni to lr,ep, , ery c o.sel ir amoug_ tll~n1siel ,~~,s .
)Iauy of th tn lHlYt , •tliffienlt:.- in siu~a . -h1g ·E ,u g'H '11., and that no tto 1bt
ueconut ,:. to ~on ·(~ t··xt('D for the·i,r kee11ing to~~thrr..
_
I bav<~l1r:.·e n t 1hn hrtion of tb~ 11t1 ti·riU . . of 'tbe 11opulat i:f. u ,o f ·11a ,sa e]1 ns,t i,t ts,. 'i\<h i r h \\T 1U KU bm it j f it "\\") U ll~ of :f! n; .~i 11 tere~t tt t]1 ~ co T.Un1 H·te in IJiH t~1inre it)
'r . GEORGE . I don t know that it woul1l be. \ .· - av i.nqtLi1~ing now,

oi~rrutiv~s ·1lariicula1·ly.
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. ·l··er.. ·t_·de
11 . ,·· " , . . .·. . . ~ • "
"' -. ~,,,s, '< t.a. ...
'b11[ j?l
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Tl.1e,
J mpr,Pss1on' th a t'. ·tl'
~1
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nt,g
the 1u~reeu.ta1Z ot Fl'tJr cl, C~111,a~1 inn,'.' u,·bo ,~ot,· and J1olll ·.n1 . ricau cit i;;
.z,e,n,slJ,i p- but I ,lon't nu,l it at ·tbi:-s moH ent l ln1,·e here a- tabl~~ 1>r ~ -ut, d bv tbe l;-rl 'l lcl Canadi in t-1ide of this cuu rov~1·s\ ,. 'Ih ,u.gure
co1,re1· 1hirf.y ,~t'\l"O t"'l 1ies an,l ,-Hin{)" ~ wher . l1''r euch Ctu1a dhlU, ar~ _to b
abou I tb1e fuct,·rx
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touud iu largt uu1nh~r- , iueltul'ing, 1"roy, Coho . s, aud Lo\veU. Tin . e
~i ies ruul. lHla.r:es hn,:- c ·t to al l)O]ntlatiou of ,41 ~ 8v7, of ,,-1Jou1 ' S., uj1
Hre C-011adians. The Cani~a~au r -·'li~~tate ou· , · 1--~ 1u1n1 l -r ~ 1510; t -ana ..
• · ·kC
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· 1' .·•1rU·,1d11~
·e· n , 1•·tji~ \ u' ·c· -..,UUU1·Uln
.,., ~c
•· ·h.O0.11' 8, 4··o.· -,. n~•
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· ·-,1'. JZ.
~ •: , ~
(·,1Ul.n
u1 c·.,,. in··
ditl'tls,. 4,4801 {)f th total Irr, ueb . · anudi~n 1101~ulatiou btr, ,g-iv~u G 000
ai-e in Colt<1 - ,3,90.2 ·i n Tro~·, and 11,:000 in i o,wcll.. Of th , 11eal~e ·- tate
01mers t'be "ear 176 in · ohoes an(l 16,7 in ;T'ro:y; no returr fro-. OVi,eU.
Of the total ln1.mber, of fheir school c,Jiildren fl n:re in (.;ohc~·,~, 508, *n
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'lTo]r,. and 1,361 in Lo""'e ll; and of the Canadian:s uaturaHzed tt~er~ are

800 in :_o'hoe~, 4 ·4 ill Troy, :and onlr ;3° 10 Low.ell~ _
.
I sllould like to sny sometlmfng wftb. re~artl ·t o tbe ,e,mplo,rm·· nt of
women a'11d · ~1t1ih1r •n in tl1e Ttn ills..
·.s, .· hav~. a-ll'ead,7\~~aid,, tha pre't'ails
to a lnr~• ,extent.. In 1\'ht~:· nehn~e,t ts, we ha,e a chiltl~htbor 1atr,, which
wa,~ olltained after consh]e r,.t bl . effort o,n tb . pan ,o f tl1 o~e ·i ntcre~,t ell,
in t,b e mo,en1en . Tliis, la'W foi bids tbe em1111oJ"":m ent of ebUtlreu tnHl( r
'the age o,f t n yeaf1 in niauninctori.fJ ,. nnd re11der,8 it coH pulsor~V" for
tl1ose und · r fourtetu yeai·s of a~e to a tend ,sel1ool .a't ·1~a- t thirfrl'leu
,, eel\,.s in eaeh y,par.. I mas say in r l:i 10n to tbi;,~ law tlh1t, like all
ot ber 1a . -s, it n ·nsf. be sn pported hy· pu td 1c. Ofli11 ion i u oI"tler to be eflt:.et.,
i ,·e ;, th a,_ it i in n1 an,, ea .~,es, ~,:nd P<l and 1~1 r,g ]y br t b , , r,t ,u cb Cana..
dinn el m· nt, _hrouihfals'"'tita-t1ou iu i-egard toth a:;r, of tli irr.l1ihlrtn.,
from their (1•.·~h- , to ll:, , , e then1 eurning ometldn,?- e,·t'.). n thou~h it he
'f·,cry 1·ttle, to,rard tl~e co tunon f~11nil. · fnn<l. Iu ,i·hi · "Wa~y, uutH \'\.i't hi n
H· sh.or thne, tlH~· In,..~ ht f:. b~e~t t~,~ad _d lnr.g f•ls in zoau,· Jl~H:t ~ nf th

Sta e, l ut ~o rnut~b attention bu~ been d.rn\Tll to 1-he ·obj ~ct of late
,l ears . bro11gll tbe eftort~ · f t b ,~ IP"'lders, mn , he la bor-r tot"Dl lnO'\: emen t
tl1a _ i ;. i s 110w be i ter- , ~uioro,?tl. The dc'te ti·,:e hurcnn ar at J1r~~~nt
H/ill g an. tbtlir IIll- U iS "'ll'Hl Oftl)Ol"t uuit lf?S rf.)' • en l'orc1ug t be :1a.,v by b1'ing-.
·iuo- ca~e i.n whi.ch it 1 , \"ioJ 1te~l to 1 uhUe notice and to llUuisbmncnt t I
lu1,•. · b en n.c ~nre,tl b]~th cluef of tliat bnr · au. tlur . he ·. oulll do a I in
b·js r~ower, wli~nv,··, cr au,~ca~e of iut"riut--t·m~nt of th · hi,:-~ u·:1 brongbt
to 11 is a tten ti on. to ~·111:hrc:c, its 1.l,r o,:- i ion,. . For t lt e~, 1•,elt.~,on · t Itet,e bas
beP n a,. s teJJi in
vn u<~t.~ i 11 t 11 is regn rtl in u11any of 't he .l J a.s snch us tt s,
marrnf:actnring eon.1n1uuiti~s,, but ti ert is ,y et roon1 for n11 b im})fO\T
,meut. In the otber Xe\T' En~1ctntl S at1 R1 ~,1 far as 1 know, thcrjo is no
law fixing the · g,e, und<~r wl ·icl1 ebild.r cn =shun 11ot be · Ul}lloyed iin 1: he
·nnUs, a ·(I tbe en1plo,,u1ent ot· yonoa· chihlre,o i.n fac,- ol"i · , i mote ~ n~
·ral tb re . , a I ~ m iu1·~ ·:►.rn1, d ..
'i"b 0JIA1RlI l~ ,.. I thin. ( ther,e i:,.j, i , la\1~O' · tha.'t ki.n d, in :s·cw Binnp..
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

ten-honr ti . Tl1.e r · " · n clispo ition to eviule i.t . 11ro, ·1· .·on.· and the i&·
tt•nt of it.: fr.~lmersf I b:Jj lve here is a dC' i .ion of nn official autbori )·.I don''t· kno,v tbe ~xac ofllcer ,vho n1ntlt. thnt dtre'iis on, but- it ,~as fl,e c~1d.ed th~1.t. th ·· la-vr only nppliell to t ",O·c •· 1nplo}~etl iu t ·.x.til mnnnfaeturc: ~, nU( tua t cou~· . ,1 nc 111ly those c1n1llnyed in 1neren utdc · l1ops and iu.
Hl aw 1fa etu 1i n:!:'. t.}u· Ya i·i on 'S s.u Iall " iu·e s. in Jl l'i n ting ofticE:-·,_ "',. a 1ul in ot ht r
,·01·r•<. ~1;ondi n·00 lJ, -,1 nclH~; of bu ine~ , do IJot c n1 • ,1~i tlnn t ue .c ope of
tllu Jan··. ..t.\.u attt'u1pt is to 11~ • 11tHl . at fuL s.e,. ~d.ou of" ·Uu": .: ·,gi..J atur to
1·t,·11cl ·r the )a.\r nton.•~cui~1 pr('"lt·.· n·. ·jy. ·., • o a.s to e111 brace all of" flu~ n1 :tllu
:fll tnriu ·• stabH-·]uuru !S t'la:J 11 en:11~ or wou n antl child t1bor· " "'", dctn.a 1 ~l that tbe ·work -shop tUUl t b . fitmHy b , k(il)~ ~· par.ate
.·. e want
t1Je 1·.1,g ht to 1~{)( 1~ OU' ... ,,·.·, rt :i :tll••l ,~h iitlrt.n tlt. 11on1e~ Tbc aggrl"gate 1n1mh r of JUlfn anll ·,vorucn ernployed ~D tho nntnufaeturiug· e~.t ubli .h rnent
1nn!( n,:.:· J·, :.t-.trn to tl1e ,c ,~usu. Dur< ~in u U.I. 1u:1·lin1ls 1no, .. 01n _..., ,•b.at
t;tnrtUufl" t . t.bo e n·~o arc uot fan1Uhn ·, yith tb tl[Hl of our i1H]n trial
~ .. t ti.vni
he 1('·JU a'f.t-,: al o , .. • la y -a rs of tL e c n Jd.oyeul 1 uin her 01111,. 783,
1e t•l1 ~ldr<~n nndei 15 ,~earM of ·1g .. l I _/)1~.
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, ,. ,, hat. :·n-e4·', dol~K ·t hut ~ta en1ent r,o,..er?-A~ The e ·. r e· tbe figures
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fo1· tlt.· rn·u1uiactni-in~ Jut11 ~trie·s of th~ ·,Tho1e couu r_-,. nn<l I ha~ no
c1oub . tln1t I ,~oi ~ · tbe sen iweut. of .·111 tl
labor o •·«auiz··1tions '\.1', ben
I ·'" n1·: in t hi \l"ord. ~ of t be i\J n / su c lu1 •~ct ,~ • (].e ra t io i of 'f rudes., that1,

'Th. l t · ufer~ i. . · ,:•/fait·l1 ,lepl•n~l. :(i r its. t \ ,
upon ib,1 \\'ork of <"hn lre11 ho~ e 11alatt·.· h.,t\· ~ J•ot ~-·t" t 1'· • · the llav,1• · of th -i r nJoth r . ui ilk i; .a 1 ln,t. u1 o.u. our boated
1,ro .,J'i1•,~ .· ~tu1d ~·L•<·ri,~1 ·~ ::·ur,~t h 1 n~u1ity .. ·. im\t i~ j z= 1iou d(1 . .~ 11ut d ·m.:u d f . ,Jlcr~fie.:,
o·," t !ut ln 11 :·IT foi1 ~ uj., ~ th :- ~ lt·1r cf gr~ ·cl, 1 or do .~~ it a lo\\· n1~ _t n1•: n 1s c- •fite d , a
·1 l11rt o.f t b,e tru,;JrC:b i u··fJ, of t ,r .1 .rn .cc.
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,~,:- l10Ie, i one o · the · rno.st a[arrniug t,uull He~, •:,,,1 tlu1t ·\1c ie lJ caHed ui,ou
t'o ))fOte~ ' lA·a in·t.. ,,.• .t.e tlie I. e8ult ·.•,iu Ol r lllcUUlfa.etoi:·in g tli . '' iets, in
1h ·. 1>,IJ)·,s ical condition of fb .s l' : ople. \vho ba,~·e ,;r-or_ret1 as tbHdr n. ill
t ht" w ·U. ~ . • 1u;l. have hcPu ,1. I tl'i 'red •O f those. pl, y. i i~1l 011portu ni ties t bat
~.n·t•i. o ·ct ~sur,:- in 01 l~ r to pro,luce L t·nn iacultictl anll ·w I. couditionetl
.~t-1 ·,e of the hnm·ut hotl\~ ~uul of its eo1n1~a ion~ th, . 'lni'nd • r int n ,~t . .
'I llt~r is sotue·t hiug iu UJc cou finew:eut in . ·i<leut to 1uan 1t.actt1ring indus~
tr~r t ,1 t ,.in th · et . of' u ine t,:~· · ine 1ndi,~itJ.n~11~ out of a buud ··,1, . e~s na
1ht · ,Titality ·1ntl tl1ti. ,t ll'pueity for •. l ·yu-tioo. 1t 1.. a prubl in for p )-~.io]o..
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1f ·, :s, ~01nl~tl1h ~,· l e1~ha1}.;~ wP.h.: ,~c nnt tl1 , ability to gr·ipr~l'.i ·. · ith,1h·r_t.,vc
~~'o th t:.11~ :nul ,r .· l~
1n1< at. it~ In ju~lfce to t be -1.nt nni~1eturin~ it1·dus.1

t1·i1..~s f ~• · (H\; Eughu d i houl l a , .ha- ·t her · are some b ·r ight, f ~ c .p tiou~. to tht eo1n1uou. 1·nn of O\\~Hr1·:s oft bese. intlu.~trit ·s tunl thei !S:\" ten1
of t n1p,l oyment in 2i01nr. ot tlt. , int rcantil., .. e~tabl ~sluneuts, a11d. notaldy
JU on.c of h nuu ufi1ctnring t'-'s t·1bU .I1n1 u'ts of C . unecticnt.. I re~~r
110\\ .o tlJ.c siU- ina.n .factom.-~r ot" the :\I ·"' sr . Chl~ne.J ., iu Sou th : fa nches.t t"' •·, ·w ll t~·rc t be l t ou ~ of" ,\.orl-- a re tc n pe 1· t.ll.1y ,. ''" h.i le in ofh •.,r })U rts. ot
· lu . ~ tate bt1y nn.:, gen riUy 01~,~en autl om t-in1.es twcl\ .1,. :1r~ ·r . o-bt
j.., • -._ •.~ a bric-f <lc~-- c1:iption of . b . ,l"o1:kiug of tbi ·t eommu.nity., whi .l1., I
tlnuk, in . ~ nsti·c•- to th geo len1en ·,vi o iuaugur11t d it., .sbou1il be in .· or~
porat<•tl ·in ~ our 1"et~or,. It is no pai-·u.rse but it, is a paradi' ,e 1n com}l:lriR .tt vd.'th sonl of th. .· ofhe:1 n1.anufactnring ,~il1a 00 . s.
Ir. ,,. . right, in hi,s repoit for 18 1, ·p age 4.-i3, says .:
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as fro1n an . eonomi. ·;11 :i>·oiui"t of
One of tb Jlrimif ber~ he11,e y ,•d1 •\l·tml 1 . d1ron"l1
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ri HIii' 2.JU u 'VB , 1~:atl cighi ~( u~; ~ix. ,,r tJ1 ·tu jc iut·(l '\\~itllil tl1t"ir .fi1tlu r tn th . n ..tn uf:1.ch1re
of s..i 1k,, i'n the qui~t l ntlc n1iU on t , · ~ tn =,1 1n "il·i1i,·l1 rnn tlrun1 h lh~ i·~1tn1 • n·w11th~r
r, ·o .~011 ~ ,n..,·ro· i ~•di t',(•t·t l \' ·1•Si'i • • ·a '(•tl ·w··1t l t 1,lt- i f~J t b1. 1· ~ 'I 'h,.., "'fftL;11·t it• 1lu.-•u,t••t> ,-.f tl~ ~- .
f· 1u1i1.. • ~l. ~ntiutriu.1 br · i~ .. ·r 1 '-H ,~ J•:j]Jutld t f ltt·· • , .... r],o~ ··:kf••lE 1 lH~ < ri.l.!~·n al :f·u1n i · still
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~- p:uk~ ,.,rJn -·~1 w · c·unq n·~ul t:tf " "] :~t i. hi ·, o,,·11 Zn'H1 "fthn-, l !t 1,••ll;x.'il to · l•i klm.. Tll"s
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-.. ·]Ii · 11 ,ex·~tZi ~ t ~o ~ ·b ~]; 1u·l~·"'h•1r gru·u .: ,t ut ot' 'tl1e i~n--t~, .uld 1~ iH l•e tuuuu. iu th~
l: •e r t l:,; H U t • IJ !ill' 1.u l 1e-1~ o( ·; l.1 • f nu U\· ~ DlOi) ,e 11 ·o , • ·w l .u.llt ~-1.Ll".""" •nrp h.n.~. 0 u.e 0:t. 1ho
:zr·'"H t ~nuI gri, •,:t tL " t• ·Us ,:h ic·L or_·· ~l n.nf l' ~11 l1 ! . ol.,~. ~r,~,e, .u . be ~·:xu1.uh111··: our h _, _
,c1 n rial .,.- •h im. i. ,:11Jh (•Jit •,, ,h1u. l~Y t1·1 1r ,i !·1u tb ·t i~t look i t L Jl 1 {JIJH tl1~ •!" to re:ir
i•H ht·' fr IJU
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p Int t •~ i's .a pt ~i. t' h: · l~ '\ ' U ,A k ilPJ i • b mud t · ► 1 ,f ', i11,c i n t'l1 e mid :t , f Jiu . su 1;j, ·ct·· , u n [.
-dt•\·ot · l1i.~ 'WJ do:m. aud. )1i · ,<t1· . 1: glb 1· · th •h: 1 · Jfil , : ,;u1-d j t , ,jl.st a~· true of i.ndn· ·•1.·ir l · iu~~
..:\ t, 8 .llU 'h ! -f.1n 11 .ster, i,f' Oil,(> .• t be ·f inn ~· he-s ·t o ln1i.hl n n.uin ··. ·ni ' ~ i...; ln.1H
~~,. 11, 1 · ~1 1 ,,•,p:1ltl1 i:-- !.~ ,fln ·•,·,.d 1a· d ·b t•n i•l1J€' . 'L im to grat-i(·r :h i . ·tn. te • 11.ul :.:ll 1bo~r
,r hh luu , f.ib ar1>; .• H Jl f(i!it' lll. ·i] .~, fh( 1'f1 aIDt l.t b:a lrt1: a. JI Ill l ~od f OTil d •' :ta.\Yn :'.'Ind
: i h1,n 11m· n t .! :,u•,( •(l)l'd h ·~ t
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JH11iu~e,., 'T bo -~1·ouutl.' :no· l ·1iid wlHrl aH ·who ·w,1 ·kin tll.e ,n •i ls "Un , . , ,he iiuit '. of
t ht• i r 'J ., 1 , ~~ · \ fl · •h ~ i·, I f; .1·1·e th , w b 1-,. 1ua c Iii m ·ri o I th to.ru101:11 ni cy l r·onsf:iou/ l \T ~rnd d ~ruiu -l'~~h•l V ·w~ ·l'k ·~l h\~ th n1nTl3 ·f¥'t•I' ; O l r011101 . · tl:m · "('>lfau uf ·b 6 in
their em1>luy.. E .:u:·h ~1:n. . 11nu~t' d:R 1hi. l: l 't~-i,~ !kP.Pping 11[1· his ~roun~l - -8U (l · }l~~in,:! f h '.-0 l ic•f"" ~• n .1 i Jf•eµ:ri i·:r • t· tl1e -w.Ti H~:;,. · ~Th n1a 1n1J~e,1• c:a rr.,;r on .:for th pu bliic
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,r,c·U-a.rraug,t·d d,r•paM1 ~·-· Hts t f t lJt•· ni=n:u:fi1ctH.rh11(g ludlling.s~ No "n. aH t.hii th,t,•re, is
1u)thi11~ of · fttnrit ,-:- • Th wlu.1~ ,eLSt'a h1i . uu~ut iH ,: dl i:·t~. Ji.a rts L , \f'ork -tl on 'b n1 inP· ~
]) ·'iu i], l,t'. , t'nr hn ·ipe . ~ , 'aJ(",ee:·~. ;.uHI tl1 · UH!Ui fl' · t w~U -b . ·~Ilg o.f .an tile ]t ·]p :n i . (~tll-·
-: d1•1·ed ,. · nua~ to ·t li.d ~Tiet· , :--s.; an l, ·•-,Mn r "'So]r ·1he· ·e .~.s. 'cfiroeh,· a need fo.r charit,y ..
l· V ~r~~JJod~· wo1· ~J .d, \' ··r,,·Iu,d v ~ l\ ork d~ 1J1~·· I(" n]t . . f 1lS i" \l:iU l~ . YC-'lr.~· where
,,,. h ·•1,-., u ·h 1~r1D! ·i l W·s. l~n ·vuii'~~ th ;1 t n b.i ~h n:H, r J .. :a. ri ·l in t ,e1i~ct l al tone ·p.rc,~a i : . i.n ,nH
't b,·· d.ep:artm~nts, an,l thi, t ,on,r, {lTIUh!cc- · ln.' t'f P,, woi:k l• -o •,:1e an(l tu ·t r '.tom··k .:nu!. . n "'It'
1 ·t n rn ,o f pl'IO • t, t > al I th a o l\~
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oon -ains 1irithm. :h st'lf so 1ut11e:b U' · h~ :fu,t, •cs, nul ·ont1it ·oo , r,,f futu . ~ 1 ·r o;!,r~.- · · th.at i.t
1nny · r, ex1J ·ttd ·,o k,e ·p. 1 alie · · ith. t~e ad,,a:mR~~s of i oc ir·t J' :\' I ch a lt: fE:·t· tu ta k ·
r.-1:u,; . :nul t b 'l iDOS't 'b e ring hop w e e ai n h=:iv for OUil' fu v,ry ·,·nlag· is - t b:i t e·:l~ b
,1nc nuly spee,li lJ: l1Potnn · ·• h k,_n e.: . 10 f the on.e .at Sou N lhn ·t·l~l"tdr,• r.. "'I'h · onler of
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et,- in ind u~trhd ,c u.hm · ,¥1U ,ou e ,1,· e-n ,,.-, ~ g · t ,o , ·r talk i u ,_,, alt•,.~ t t b i t; c:Jr~ts.
()f ,cap-ital and labor h ii g ~.d 11 ical- a:1ul ,c uu111i" :h nc'I th ·1111 ai"i r t .i1 to-~ l n1te:rcsr ;
de:ma1u.Hu·~ f1110 · - •ell. a prm .·t~c.al n.~ogui:ti~>D of ·t u . .fo ·e· or ,11 • ◄ t lu~1 ,.. ·il . ,lJ. vitalizin .
·t he lat,r ut puwet. ,o f th~ othe·r,.
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It is a.lso. simple. Justice t-hat ,.01net bi ug ,t ihould be said he1·1e of· the
firm of .,. lcCullongh., ,villiam~,, alld l)ark('ir, of :Boston, who · ·1IJ111oyed
m lDl p ople in t:beir .m( rca.otde estabU~hm. nt, aDd also of' fbe hous -of Jordan. & I.a:rs.b, . ~ho h1a·1.e doDe much. to r -~nd,. r the. c.o nditiou
"1f their e.n111iloye:s comtortabl@ aud plea,s ant . I "'·o,nld. like to say
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Ull re,ga.1:uii t~,. . ·t. h,.
e wo.
g g1-~r.
gir·l " in f.11 ·._ :tores ·; but, to pHr.sue the. line o'f tkou.<rht that I a.m
in, I wonld a~• tha the nrrn of Jo1,da:n & l\[a.rsh ha .-.e proTicJ.ed s
T'. ry hir.ire room :in one of' tl1ei1 buildiu~,, ,rhich ,,ould be \\"Orth
about :·~~,ooo a year 1hr corn mer ia] JJ U rpose~, .a11d have fl tted it up ·w ith
the ,~ario n:·. n~essari accou11notlations for their ueople·and for the soeieti es " ~bicll. tbeir- ,em1>l0Jes i'o1.m. an1011g tbemse'I, es or lit rary .a nd intel1

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ti,¥1fes. T.h at iirm pur~ ue a. t:ou·r e wit;h their emploJ·e s and man·i ft-_ta
kindn.e ss tow·.a nl tbem w.lJ •· 11 creates an ,excell, nt st ate of fee.lin between
tlie e1nployer a.ntl :be emploJ ed. Aoother part of' their sy,.t- n1, w]nch
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'\V'.as originnl ·,1litb them,. ·i lrodnced its fruition la· ·t :ra·11. 1u the takin~ of

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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Thc··...Y fo,r nu~d tl -·ociPtY 1l1( 1J n t¥ious •, ·ear ·t o v~ l1ieh e;ich ou~ uf the u1ploJes ·wlio tb·o~-r coutr~ b~.1trd a Rma n a1uonnt ,,reeld~~, :u ·d tht'll: at a
,:ert.rnn thne hlt , ,1rt~·rf" , h·a-"TH .;:u d t:bore "l u ,:rerc · o forturnttft a~ t ,o
drav. Jtrizes ,u,·,~·r l'' ,e11t'it lt <. to ~:o ,.1 1: ►ou tl1c ·Enr-01Jea1J tri1• .
Ju.\v \l"eJ ~
u.ct·o1u.1,a1d, d l~v a uu~1ube:r ,t f t.h<:. ti.ll"IH . ,,·ho,, I b Jie,·· ., also hitlolo"<d bis
r•hilnut:ln 01 ••, .· ,•dt il( 1b1 v tn: r ,e a broiia -in ya1 iou$. il·ays hy ~iYi1ur fh4:1·tn
~1 ,et' in1 01 )101·t 111' it it ~s l• •r ,s!i :,!'. b · . ~ t ei ng· rn 1, I ot hl"'l" a tl ,~an t:l ;,!'t· s ,r11 il'· h t lH\\cou Jtl 11ot hu, (Ii h::l d ll.~ i111dh·idual travelei-;·. · ·-tle. 1·t: tlU"tU.~ tl fro1.n their
tri 11 Yc1--Jt- n11ucl1 Jllt..·i st~ " it b 1 ~-ir ~ x 1,e.r.it nee,, a ntl t be sa u e 1.1rog.r.1 nIll ,~
is 'to b • ·i·t'Jlen t, d "'U Jother ~,;ear.
'The f'rn11ot\· Mc nllo ·1_gh, ''" ilH~ n1~ & l'a:tk~1· , oue of tbe lnr_~_!t st •loth~i 11 ~ es t~l bl i:-;lnu t:~u t g 111 Boston, hH, · J,urs nl1tl a 8 iu jh1 r c;o1 r,$e ~ T lu~y· JH ) ·
tbe .hi g l1 -ls t Ju at k ~ ·t 1·.··d t ~ fol" t h e·h· l lt bor i u ul I ua "ftS, f1·01 n t b SE! iu g·
gir]~,, ,,·J o .n ulie th - eo1ton goodL"S, t 1a t tbe:,~ ·eU,1to th~ cutter of tlie
n1 os't J~u~h io1u1.l ; l,P ~-~lr1u eu ts, a,1 u.l the Ii ea,ls of their depart.01 t11o u ts:i an ll t be
cons:e<ru · nee is tl nt nn111~- of their ,fn111lo),·fs, nrc j r tere~te'1 in the ,,·el . .
fLre ot· th tiru1 iuul f(l I a (lf-.ie ) a1u'J. abiding· respousibiHty nucl obli.gaUon to do thei' · l)e,8t. wol'k f(n"' its. bt 11e-tit. ]Jut, a 's, I lw~,,-e ~aid; tbe~e
are tllle bi ight exee1,tiouRI' 'Ille UF,;.Ual ~lationK b tw-een tbt'iM peo1,tle e1n[) loy(l;tl in. 1u erc·:1 n ti I· pu · ~ u i t an ll th · ir ,e1nploy -· 1 ·· a r,. the~ ~-" - of ·rltJ~•
se Jer :nu] 'b11yer of rou11u1odifit s. ~rhe ~mJllO)eN, SP11 tllttit b~ho1 at the
·1ow,tt·s t •n~nk~t 1n·ice fhat tJ.1,;. t mploye1. ' cnn buJ" it a . and th:·1t hi,an the
rrspnn~rb~Ht3101 intere ~t tl1n t lH;~ ein1,lov r l'eeis iu t Iu~1r 1r P f-;irP.•
•~rh 1, -. ar~.t·, o · coursci.., t 011do:,■ ed h1 , b · ·lHl JHi and ston. ,s ot· e,~~ ·v Rrg'e
eit~,. a great uuu1b r of gh·l~yonug · aJes~lndie~- aJ_d tb cl1,j~.f and one
01· tbe D.i.OSt erytng abus s of ours,~. h~n• of cll.iltl laltor in }la, sa t~husett$.
~s the eo1.ploy1nent bs son1e of ·.·he large-r fir1ns, in Bo-to,n of little ,c bilt1.ren as e:isl1- boy:-;, a11 d gi i·ls4 I ha,-, i u iuy wind sc\··e ra·i firms ,rll,c1 e
c bHtl ren 11 ardl:r 'Iarge · llt)U r ,l , a J)•pnrentl · , t O be, uu t f l"Olll i1 nder· t lJ eir
1n otb er'.%S eye are co nra peUetl to 1-ennri u in those- 11hi ces ft•,om, , li<~ ti m,e ot:
opeuin~ in the n •Orrdug,. "~hieh 1.s f!orr1,n1only 8 o'clo ,.k, nta.tH ·7, 8,. or 9
o·'eloek in fue ,·enh1g, a d,. iu th.@
·r ·;t nsou, until 10, 11,1or ·12 ,o~ •lo( k
at ni_g bt. I lu1 're. , -: r~r oft -n uoti ;ell t r ir ,1pJHtarl1rnce v,·h en I lul"re had
tJeeasiom1 to J:tO into 'tbo8o ~stnblisl1mt 11t ,, a.nd tb - tired, ·,,·ear'f, e .. · hauI~;;t~ l
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as. ·he <la3· is, (lra _viug to a close is

1't1any· of tllern 11. cei, but a rner~ Jlittaneie, ~onlethues a, f ~-,v
een'ts a dnv,. occatSioual_Jt $1-~tt. a"·week.; ,aud foe that 11itlance tl1e,· have
to snr1·t-ntlt r all tbe oi~uortuui tt ~ fo1'" 'I be 11lea ures of elrihiltoo,t all th .
chihUr~b nirrihnent thut -.bonld be I l,e bh·tlu·iin-h nf e-rerv child, and
lu:eowe 11art of t:h, nu1tlnu~1·~, , ha· constitut~·. our iudustria excha.11 ~!t
- fan~~ of' tl1e gil'I~ eu11•loJ~t-t are fiu,1n. tw, l , ,•,t~ to t,,~ ut~ -~· · ar,s of age
arul. recei,-e J.)e-1·lhlftS Et! ·1 ~ -t ek1 If th Py lr,e ,e x,ct~pt·ion.jdlJ 1Jr1gbt, tJ ui ~k,.
and 11 .··ti,.. · ll8, s;1 ]t•s.-.g b~I~ t lu y 1nay ,g -... , - 4 or $li a 'Week S'l•n1,· , of t;lt ~
fa l1iooabl,e .hon.-~es r.u~. , ·.1,~cn go lri, lu~1· ban that but, 1 lleH ,~e the
.a,v.eraµie J>.,.r.ice 11~1 id j·c Jr th · In bor of sn les-gh·1'8, in Boston in the 01·1.H111a1 ?,;~
brancl1es ,o f 'trade i ~ uot =lhOYe· $:!.50 a ,\·ec~k.. U 1t of' tlr1t 1no1.n.-) :"" the,:r
are s n PlJOSed to 111 ah It a i11 t bt?:rn ~t 1,~r s. ·11u I y uf tbeu1 \\"OJ.' k. u.u ti l all.
b~nl's aud until tlurv. bt cotue ex.ilJ1u'n sted i u l•utl)'. ~nul t~-0'11ti 11uent]}~ in
iuirut 'fhe) :lJJ• · ,f •x.·•I ,ectetl to l•e al wa,"' ~ ue~ t:I\:
llt•,t s~,4:d a11tl t'o \\"t'~,.1~
,i
1:000 cloth_ · !' beca n Si · an e~ta'bl ish 1u t~n t en1 ploy i ·1! -~i 1·] s ,irb o aid not
d :r es 11t atlv ·, rouid ·rle'l"ht1.1,8 , use c udorn tbe1·~b,~ ihey are su1,postil
to ·\ceou111UslJ1 tb · s :i·e~TI I - hy ~nine- 1natbe.nu11ica l 1n-ocess of th it· OV.7H 011
$2"50 o,r _- 3 a week Above c1l 1hinJ;r1S, ·tl1ey a.1· l, nq_u ir d, not so di~tinc'tiv~ )y bs fh.e Jlt:'O'l ll , ,.b o e1n1>·Jo,~, thtA:U as b,\· ~oc ·tty :nt htr~~· tobe virt uons to obey 1be fioc.i,a I la-,r·\ iln d to 1,.u--e ·.,-r,~t i.u 1,ro ,~r ton di ~
tion tbeir 1>01.tion of tlie :re--si,ousm
hiht~~· or so~~htt y ~ l lt("J aJ■e son1t 't hu~$
1•atl1e·r c.

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

RELATIONS B,KT\YEEN LABOR ASD CA.Pl1."AL..

73

a~·siste<l,, I belie.ve, to \vo,r k out t'his result bJ" tl10 ])fOJ.•lt ,•1t the he:uts
d f t 1ll1_ ll e1mrtmeu ts I h~ .ve in ia,y m.in<l i ndi \1l1 ua1 i us,t al iees uf' th., t .
J 110 not ear to d,1·ell upon that part of be ,c a · ,. bnt · -hat I sav c~in
be eorrobora ·_ ed bJ· eyer), man " · o is 11resen t ·h.ere as ai 'ff i tu ~,s~,, a1 H1,.
ba,~e uo don.ht. hy l1 :- hltH· -~ ·,,r bo win tl"st'U\& before ~rou ·1!1 •'l.~afre1·. 1
t.hiuk tl1:a't ou ,oJI tbe nu,st Jn ~~dug ue@tls oif" our tinu~ i.~. s nu~ ,s,- ·t11n,,
not neee~a1-i. ,-:- ot· lt\~i~: .lat iou,, b lt sorne -J .·•te1n of iudu~ r_y a ul of" ~m1,lov,
n1 . ·n ·. ;vlu.ch vrUl 11.::u.Lo·, ~e 1.hi~, t1Stigma from our h1rg-e cities and our l.1111·g -·
1u reaut.ilt~ i1ulu~· 1·i1t~~.. l i ~f '":l n,g· t with dang-e·r· in tte future, and this
renu-11.:k aJ,J.)liPS, tn n lut·be, ~xt~ut I o t be l'.'t·'"lations that ~xh;t betw·ee.u 't he
·t(~,n~rle opt•1 ati ,:- .. : and. t ho~e oir.· . ~ tht:lfl iu ~01ne of ·t lte Jir1auniilctu.ri11,g
di . t'l"I ~ts of~~"~Eu1,1lund. I kn Jili\" ,of m,y 0,'.\\·n ]'Jer~on.d kHO\\rletl~e t h:a t
such a ,e uudi.tion of 't hin ~ doP,s exi~t. It is s-0mcthiu_g that is uot «'l•·. ir·ab r. e\~ 'D to, th ' 1up10,rer ' of h1 bor, aull ·i ., '1)@"1 ba11 ' I 1ore tbe i-;t,..::s1tlt of
11 d.ir-ec 'force,~, th=t1u of a.u \:· , Hr · •t d sign, but it d'o~ ~ t: x.i~.t•.
1 he condition -ot the ,gh·I ,. ht the j·aet0i·1;+- btr.ditlb1 ~·-}10:n~- -~ ('\rh h!'l.1 a:r -·
ia11 institntion ·11 thena e1,~~s de· - ~rvi.D,g" oi' co11sid·c-FaL1e notice in some of
the 'towns., as., 'r gartls tbe 01,-1:tortuuitie•-- ll7bi . h tbe5 oder f<tr- a1n11sen1ent, f7or social t"J~iol WJ. ut-, a1ul for :retiueru.e u ·; an.ti . Ie,..atiug i11floeu.•e:,_)
i· tl,e plorahl .· . lit otht~r ·p,I aees all due --. are a·11 th care th~ · cau ·b ·_
legiti'ma.te!y x.;1-cist d tln-ou,:?h the, rule,~ a.1Hl in nenee o-f the em1lloyh;rg
t!Ol}Joration~ .. is take1 tha • a 1~ro1n 1· standard of' 1uoraH ;y sban be1H·@~ : rv,etl iu 'tb~se bo(ardn1.g .. hnus -s, but, fnlm th -nature of tb,e case, th ~flin11iu -otogetbe.r o,f . · la1 ·p: n11n1.b r of ) onHg JleOJlle uncl~r. such ,c ircumstaoet :s,
b8, i n.dn nee of tha,·t kiu(l ot· li.fc ,ca.u . ,o't be ~"ood. Some of tbe boardin,g-bonse& are cleKI,!rn.- l . xclttSi ,~,~1y for gil"ls, and. ot er,~ for tbe mat·
operati _·es,. and. h. ·n a ,g~a in in o her ease,.s t,oth .sex s Ii t'"@ in tbe•sa1ue
boardiu.g-bou se Tbe cond.i tiou. of Hfe whii,ch fliu.brs· th.em tog ther i.u.
this way, 11rit h ott·t bome, wilt no <lorn e tic tic , ll"ith t'be bar,tl u aH.,routiue of labor entet:bling mind a · d bocly and taking away the 11.. altby
·t:o ·1e of 'botb, n . c · sarHy prod ces hnmora]it~; antl 1say ailvisedl, ·that
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the city of Lowe]l i .' a \1 ide and large .field f-o-r- the ·td.1ilantbropy of fbe
1uoral reform.er,i There i'. mor,e 11eed. of institutions. to i.m:p.r o,e the
pri,·ileges of these J>eople in our 1na.unfilcturi11g cen:ter~~ tliaH that m1u nificent donations sbonh be n1acc to .H ar,..ard College. o,r to Yale.
Tber-e is. more n cl t1Jat our Jlh1lanthro1Hsts ttn,·n. tht~ir attention toalleviating th· · cou(htion of tbe e p .ople than there is that tbe:y ··bou.ltl •
erect art gall ri.e,~ 01· 'b uil,d magnifi., ut chariti~s fo1~ d eayt.(l gentl .
wom,~ n; aud tb ·-re iSi a, greater neees.: ity than al[ that our industrial
system shall b · so r gulated that tbe bead of a fa.-mi ly shall b . perntitted to 111eset're l1is, fhuiil~r intact, antl tbat. he labor of women aud girl~~
and c·mldren to the lu:ro:e ex.t. n ·wh1,t~h I ha,--e tles.cr.ihell sba·11 not be
so impo:r1:ant a f·1ct,o r iu the p11odnc, ·ions of our n1aunfi1ctu1lu." indus . .
tries~ It is th : n ._ d. o,f the thne tha - more o.1,11ortuui'ty be gi v,en for the
]aborer to nil1l up a l1ume, to ket~'P bi8, 'Wiie tl1ere au,d to ktiep hi~
daughters aud l1is =son · tJ1er - until they lu1Ye a1Ti,·e,d at such au a,ge a.~
t,o ha,1'",e acqui:red ufflc-ie·11t 1>J1ysi,eal stan1iua uud Yigo:r to bt'ar tbe l1anl
k nook,s a ntl stro .... gl e.s of .xi ._ t eu.e,e.
·his, I sa~y, is a n1 ore -ir ~ent 1u~etl
ih.an al1no t a.ny utber ··1 at ou-1· ~ociety ba1; to-da,t.. Them i:s, room tor
work in a. Ue,?"iat i11 w ··xi·~ti u g mi,sery, bn·t t bere is gr~.·1 ter u,ecessi tr fl ~r
ta'ki g· steps v.·hicb wiH remo,~e the ne d for · :u-ch. allel~ia't-iou as f~·mr as
lfflSS,i bl,e.
- So far as .r e«ard s the a1unse1ne.nts of th , peop1e in N e ·, r Eug·1and., I
would. sa that in tbf?, ,c ity of :oston w - b.a,~,e made mp·i d progre.ss ·iu
f he 1a 't f''i~ _vears. The lar,g~ public l.ibr.a ry ,and. reading roon1, where
,tft·er)~ 11eriodital. tau be ob·ainetl., i~, 011en 011 Sunday.
he Museu · ,o i
:F ine. Arts :is also open on. Suuday tree. Th,e in :t itutio,- kno,wn .as tb&
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

RE,LATIOXS BET\\ 'EEN LA:BOlR, A::SD CAPITAL~

Yonll:? J\I n's. Cbri tian U oion, ·which is n1ore ,of a praetit.al - xeu1ptiflea-

t iou of cln·i ~thin work thnn of th ·jjolog.r, ha,.iug ·b een founded by the
l!lli.'t::rrian orgauizatiorui, uud being upp,ort d llJ tu · ,n of all cleuomi11ati1.u~ . i~ at·o onen
on ,S nutlavs" 'Ih· rt, t"i t n1ere1,~ nominal thar!te fo·r
I
i1u.: n llel'8h i Jl~ $ l 1l y~a r,. ant1 to str~t n ~,e r_ it i :s fre .. J t l1i:l s ~ la rg,e Ii hra:r:,r,,
It tu1 i1n « aud eor1 ~1lo11d,;11c-e -rootu, and a eon-vt r - ntion 1vom. l t; 'h as
JMu·l'. u rs untl all th · ,ulll or l n ~tie for 1~eerentiou that t!an b ex11ectetl in
i.1n iu:sti. ution of tl1~1t kiud; 'hut- aft 1· all th ,ela'\S 'tba it reacbe~, i so
tsnntU cou1iu1retl 'With the vast uu1nb~r l b.o lu1,··c fiitlJJer no taste or no
a. biH t;\ to ·r e tho.~e menns that it' ~:oe _ hut a, aruall WHY to,,·anls so-Yin}.. th . 1n~o1Jleu1 "liich I l1a ,~ s t t.eu.
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Il\ the ·."11 · IR)! ' ~:
r ~tk.e th . public lib1•,·1rs, fur instance, bow man\! of' wh~rt ";oe. ,(!1; .11
Yrorkiu_g p@o1,lie, aT"(dl tberu :eh.~es of' its pt·h.. U g s , ach abbath - ,A,.
-~ o fin: as u y obsl"rtation goe~ an,l l lnrve fnquently l>een the·re·nn th
Si1l>ll,;ttl1 n Jat o-,e percentage of tho c. ,·r.bo use itij 1u.1ivilege- are workin ~: l)~·opl
(}., Bnt ,· vri~l1: to get au id, n as, to the flXten , to "'~hi.'h, :;11fter all, 't ·,e
1nnsses. are reaiclied by u 1n1bUc ilna1~y. .'N hnt 11u1nber ,Yill i.· nceom. n o~late--tw·o or thre . 1.JniHl,· . d ·. _ _ . Ye~, . if'; I should say that t11"0
Jr Ju.~ ·.etl wonld be tl1e out . id~ innnber tha coultl be .:1cco1nrnodated i.n
fl e re,~,1 ding toon•, autl · hor . j: - tb"' ouly 1>ar1 af the b11ild1ug tlaa.t is w;ed
OD SL1nun-y ■,
<)~ l)o ,, omen frequent ~, a,s Wl l l as m,eu. T~A - Oocns'ionally·, b·n t
tiH re i~ l "Ot auy perceptible percentn:z , of vrom, n,,
ll- .lln~l the -o,: he·r i~hlct',s which :.·ou lu,,T m ntionecl are like tbe
rln·~try n~ to 'tb1e n·n1nb i-s pr ~!e nt on th · S~1bhat.h, I Rnp,pos , -A. The
Yonn,~ . . len s Christian T r1ion is geue.1ui ,- ■,1uwded ou tb.e Saibbatb
th1y,l a1nl 1 , boultl say tbat dn1iug the da~; at lea ') ' fl .e h . n<lrtd pe:r~1ous ll- i _; of' oourse no
at one tii·nie.,, but ta,k ing the ,vhole da-y to
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,Cl,. But manJ of those, I · up-pose, are young ,men w·h o are not spe-cbtlly tlepe11den : llllOH itR, 1~ri, ileg. s 1-.A. P '1:o·b ablJ·.. l\lanv· of bem.
bt~long to ·f 1.·. 1nercnutile cla-s-clerks aud tho .a em,pl,o:'\"ed ·in t.be-insor..
al ce tt uc · bank ,o:lti.ce ~( >. ·_. o 1n1_, it in 1~on11d numbers,, clo J"on think that more than one thou~ nnl. of the workiug 1,eo1,le are 1-e;u:!bed lJy the~ - free librari s ancl tbe
Jik .. Jll:ae 8 t}1a Ion ba·•re n1 . ntionell on the S.abhatb day .,-A. ·:'O.. sir;
.8houJ,d be incl ned tot ·iut tha. Dot u1ore than one tbou ,and are
reach d hv
,. t'h :-,ui.,
Q. I snppo ·e that c ·rtain condition-, ~nch as ,yon r~ :ITed to ,y , ,_- t~r(.h ty in ·r e_ga1x to chnru a-tt uthtuct., in . nen~e t.b.e extent of tbe use
:uuul · of' tbP~ ,e otb-'r 11 •j, Urge- A 1ua.'l1 in 1·a~s · HI ardJy go to the
1•11bhc libltlr or, to the ,e oth r pnbUc ph1ce}• ~ A1 No, s.i r; a man who
lt~l~ nnt titti11g appa1""el is disiueli11.ecl, a '. n g -ueral th.in,g, to visit any
of the pluces wh m he is brougb.t ·i11to ll1oti,c e in e.om.p •ari~oo with tho .e
'. -llo are ·bet .er dr,e s~d.
- djou:rued
W AS-H IN'G TON,, Febrturrg 12, 1883,..

If n . ··,"X K., 1 osT ~ R; ex a-mi nation eont i uued..
B · r. GE,OKG :
Q 1estion s the ",e un_ythiug tha·t 30,0 desire to add in the line o,f dis,-e ossioo in whi ·jh )·ou were engaged on Sa urtlay, when fh ·. exam:inatiou

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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<!losed "-Au \\"'fr~. 1'1u~rc i,s nuoU1er 11-tru,gr;1111 iu llr.. right':s r port
for l SJ that I sboultl Hk· to ff~ad ~-:~ to the . fleet 111100 t ,e \Yoi:nen
a.it,tl :el1ild.-ren that a1-e t~1u1)10J;~etl 1.n t be tniHs :
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11" l 1!],·, m:~t•Jl, P. pe ia 1ly on ,]_
vi rl. \\"h ll ha\ C ll-0 P'l reu ts l t1 the m '"] J to u~,a t eh o, ~ ·1 1.hf'lD,~
,,~i] I: n,o -.e1:.1nit rn v ~ i rf :,,i, tfl · or·k in n1 ~J· _- ot b~·v 1 1i11: t b:1 n t·be oHe. J a ·m1 in ., ru i1 \l.i bP·r e
l •·a 11 l· i,11 DlJ!'" '
~ln t lu. I'll ; lH)t, t [~at
the,~ ''.j] l du :l u h [II i \ ;"Tong l · It the
= t1Hd ,1u.·t-b o'[ .11 ii.ni~l ,~.1· ~ \·e:r y u~ tl..
··r -, ,·hih.1 o,f a ··erh1 in a .- · go~ to ·w ork i:u the
n1~1 I, t·oustauth~hn.·(tth~w 1! a terui 1· tute uf m
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Q~ Is tl1a he S ·(1te1nent of au O[l ratil"" ,, _ . , Yes.
Q. AT those sta en1ents of op '·rn.ti'7•e s t'ba · · you ha'f"c been read.iug,
o is }Ir. Wright giving flu~ statem-t .n ts pro nnd co · :. nd the co-ncln :ions
tha;t lie draws- fro-m tbctn
In the quota1tions that I balte read be
.m, ntioos w'hen be is ei tin"" t!1 ~ sta ten 1eu 't·. . of 01lera. iYes ; the o b -r·
portions. are th con.-In· ions of .Ir. \\}.' r-i:ght
The CHAIRMAN •. Plea·. e be particular in an.ye--tracts yon rend to ,s tate
whe -her it i . Colonel Wrigh ·'s. Ol\;n ·, ta.t ement that you. are reading or
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a 1ne-re re-petition by· hilL -of toe s.t.ate1ueuts of O[)eratives.

Tbe ,v,·x ns ·.. ~ ill a ,,.u, s p;i \·c !~om . ·i ndi ation· . on th1at 11oint I
h· , e not_dog .lse t·bat Wi'"h to at1d as to fbe. condition of -t 1e nlill
-opercttives. Wbol - t"olu1n _s conhl bf:. ftll e<l with tes,tin1ouy on tba·t
$lbjeet,
- bu wha.t I bave 1•r-. s~nted. is preba.bly s:officieut f<)'r· this.
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Q . Cao you int'or'.n1

w11eth r this, gen ral s.ta.te of fact~-·w hich I
understand you tnte~~t1f\! to i.~ adn1ittetl or ,Jeni d bytbe ·mauu:fac 1-ur rs
a 1nl 0th.e r •em p·lo~
-A.. .I belie\"' · th.a no great exc- ption fas taken
by theni to )Ir. W1i_nrbt's. ,eoncJ:ns,~ons. Of conr~e ome of' th• 1na.uu,
f; etur, rs,clnim.tb.at thtir 011 ·rati\" . s,arc in ·_· better condition than tho e
•~mploye.d by ot,hers,. ,nt flie <reu.era I f. - ts as to t b · crowding of the
u.1n]S'. ancl the ]reugth of' the hotu., t.he u.ubealtbin1
ess1·Of the oocupaU.ou
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to .. ar( Ut •t' ~ H.~1~11.tf t ,, I beH,PV b:.,Ttbt r ntplr yer ~
~- I u ~ tlt~t:'$tuod ~-o I to ay in I lu~ ,..,a r Jy ll~trt of vour ,e xan1ination tl1 ~1.t
J- ou ha fl ~pent, ~.t ,.·ear- i u pers-0u ·J l ~
,:r ,a ijt,e rt a hu un- the co•u t1i lion of 1ho
OJ ~ r,a Hl es t hroug;ho11 t. l:l=t~~Ju.~·h u ··e ts, ~ -A Ye~ ;. and al~o in onne<';tient u1ul 1? hotl lshrncl.
Qt 1--ll:11a~e t;iY . u · t 11.e· ;-u ll ·hnu~,t of :,onr oh ~e·m·vatious.- A... I h;t , •, .,
})l~.Sf-] t .e~l tL·ls testiUIOllll,/ " b · c.~= t1·I ~.;,.e i ,:•ot·responds to fl~•·· resnlt~ ,,r Ul_\on·n ob er,·atious Hud. I l,t~Ut ,. ·~'it to h ~ trn n tl11: n1aiu.
(J,; Tbcu ~:o 1, iu nb ·tanct..;;,, 'ul,t pt tllu,, a~ your o\\~n te :f mo y ---\~
"'fe .:- , /It"'
(~. ,o 'that ,rr . ha,.. ·t befor u~~ us in snllstance cotniug from. roo
pc-rsouaU:f -A.. ·y , ,i • Therr. Ut't' of cou ~ . ,~_ gr< at many· o· ber
h,rauc11c-.. ~ of industry iu which tlu. 1>eopl 4i m,1d.o:~Ted t:hink they· haTe
,~;ro _nd . of con1plai. it~ I do not hh1k it ucces~ . u,J to enu1nerate maJJJ
•,,t' tlu~1u, but the,r•e i : tu1,e , clit ~ ·. _l1at ongJ1t to be 111.ention.e d., and that t~
tl1e ccnuhfl·~·toi·~ •e1 ! t◄·l dri \ '",1•1 ~ ,t.11 iJ>.loy(•tl hy the h.or~ · 1·ail \ a;y companies,.
lit. fi-m:onG1-~. I bt H<~re hf\\- l1i.r'fe a 1· ·' al gri~,, ~~u1c.-~. I nnd r ta1ul
Hu-- Y .~tl'"' ·ouJ lll Utid. to wo.1:t- tJft:r,el , :six te-~u, ur e\~ H. . ·i'. ~'btt---eu ·bou1'$, a
<la~r.,
Th ~. ' ' I'1"NESSt lu Bo ·. ton au<l Yicinity tbere a1-e several lnrg bor ,;, •
railroad cnn11)~1uie.s, The. Highland,~· R~lHroad Company, · be J,te'tropo:li
tou, t nd the u ·nioH It·i~lroad. Cou1pan3, ru~e the! three largest~ · jhe
HJ en em1l,loyie,l by 11.em work a Imost ~n·'fa ·,btbly from thirteen to '.~ixt Eel 1, hours a fla, ·.
D v t lt e CnAIR"lIA~ :
Q. ll~u· ,i·u:.r ~om1)eosation . :. $1.75 is tb.e a,- -ra.g· ]lri '.• Tbe
11 i~ h'hnu ls Uo n1,11u.ny ·1UlJ s ijODJ ~ of i s d1·ive ,s a ud coudu,c -0, s , $2 Jay~
itmul a u . ·t,v co1u·1,a 11.y ·t i•nt hi8 b ·e:11 startetl in ._ uotber J.l~rt of the citJ,·~
1·he ,C batles Cit),- CJ unr,a.ny,, ,,rhi ill is a ,conlJ)C'ti.ng,lioe 'With an:o her rood,
a ls;o p~1ys $,2 a du~\"' ; t.nt an fht se. 1ncu h.: lv · .o ht.~ ou duty "n all k f nds
of \1rt!at lier rromu ea.1:l:r n101·11iug \1Ut1:l . ~1,t,e, at 11i.~ht.
Q. How is it. a~ :o t.ht 1·u nuiug of' th ~ cu.r-s uu n.u-' Sabbath !-A.. Th.e
cars ai-e 1·nu on the nb1Jnt l1..
·•
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to lo~e tlie th ·y~ , pn,~- t'lu y t :1·n t ·1.si1Jy fhJ<t substitute. , There 'is a gr,ea,'t
conl]H:J_!'t ion fur ti ·ese ·1, iU:l•~ "; 1n·1 n,J nt~• · ubt·du a, Ii ,·1ng hy nct1ng a ,
snlu~t i' ntt"H .or th · 1·P:.■i, u l; :r eoiu.lu,ctorl-l.
Uy ll 1... GEOI (rE ·:Q. \\ bt:-u tlH~ 1ul n ,,·ol'li on ~nnday they ~re. Jtaid fhr Sunday 1--- .•
· e.s , 8:ir.. :Suuu! ti1uu sine tbcte \\'a.s an etlort mnde in the citr amon 6
tbc co.ud ,u.~tors aud d1.i,~t1"8 to ob uh1 au iucrcatSe of t ,,·euty;o .fi \~O c ut " a
day in ·Uu2ir i ►~l~", ,u 1. th .. eiul'J•prot " -n~ dist!n\~ ··r :11'] ,n ud tho n1cn w·ho
"'" ro pl"(UU'i nPn t. _n it ,, e,· ·e •HNi~ll:u 1·::,!Pd, \tud us ti e rad road ern1,,toi, es
lu:t.,··e no eo1uhiuation an on~ t lu n1sr l,te~ it. "~a.s in11JlOl~~j )le '.it''JF th~m ttl
gl I · ·u , . sin i~fi1ction~ r1 bt y \\"l "l'e obHg;ed to l a\~(",: tbei1· sit nation · an(l
,~eek i:111n1>lo;vu1rut t l~u,, bPt
1· bcli,n·,o :l1,·1t' 'i-t ~iflent Jti ~h;11"t)~, uf onv
6f the .1.. ,~uls, in ,~011\~f: l"sut1ou \\•ith stunp ot the I t"U \'rl o ilJ)Jalied for 1lU
ad\~~ uui~ in b ,~baJf nf tlJe otbem.·s, ~aid th,ei-e ",·u - uo great~i· reas.un ·w hy
11e shoru Id 1,a,y .iuo ·~ thuu t l1t u1u rlli:it.,t 1u ice fhr t lu.~- ht bot· tl1a · be enlJtlo,,·cc.l on tht rocu1l th.-1n tha.t he s.]'1onhl I .~,.y I u:nu tbun tht~ ;rnark:~t Jlri,c e
for th.,e ha·I• .~ of h~·• l tba ~ I is l io1"~~8, cons , nn:d.. 11,e di,I not t.'hink th re,
"a~ a uJ tlnn_g t.baJ 1lt~n1a1ul( d t ltt1 t, hu ~houh p~i~i' 1unre j'o r his labo·r
t -b ·nt the i~,\\rt l< S( lH'LC . he could, buy it fur~ ~rhc oondif OU of tbt COlld -·1rtor~ nu l ~h·i ,•., :1:s. is uf l" n11·~0 e,dd,-.nt to t~\ ·cr\" otU!1 '\Vitbout. eut.eriu~. 1u to au1,r dcxc,t·i1,tiou ol t lu-" b··n ·dsl.111,~ inul \ "i.lSi co-us q tl · D.'t 011 such
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Y-on w ·oo ·1)ro})O 10g I belie,·e, to 1 ·•t-".'_ ,~om,_·, rSug
-~ s.U.o a to · be re.-,n,,-dt ·s for . he e il you l1a.'\'",e h ~~n · etting ·fort.h.. I
do nut wi h to a ·~... JO 1_ to, go to that branch of the sulueut until you
Ju,, es< 1<1 all that you dt!SHe to ·~·- ,- in 1~e~1r-d to tho e evils, but, if w e
ean; I should Hke to clo ·.e Jo tr exa·n1 ination t hi .,n1on1.ing~ At the sam.e
tiine I wish you t-0 uoder ·tand t-bat th ·re i. no, d,__ire at all to ,c ot :.vou
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untH ou ha e said all ,_h ·• - y·o ,,·i sh t,o ·ax.
r ,he Wl~N -S S I ·•.ho, 11(1 pr, r ;r Bl~~ ·. . -if to have it ,c1os -d this mornio_g..
By Mr. G ""·O'R,G - :
Q.. Befo · you. go into th .· . question of remedie I would like to kno-w,.
if Jon ca.n rstate it, what is the usual size of the families -of ,bese ,operafl ··

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

'78

RELATIONS HET,VEEN LABOR A.x ·n CA.PIT L ..
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Tbe q neRtion Ol) n~ np these mntte:rlj for consid(ira lon-wbether·
t ·o cbUJren ,ar.e beal --h.y and."rheth·· r the faluUl ·- ~tre lar,gcr or sm"Her
tlu1n in tbe rurnl distrlct .-., Do you know any"tbiug "bou ' tl'le btrtl ..i·at .~., . -ou1:p~·1rtd ivi t the death-rate: · -mong· o)Jeratil"·es _-A, I am no·t
.a.bl •- to nu.~r,,~er .accurate )y as to the si·ze oft lie ta·miU ·s.' but l tbiu f,._ bat
nruol : _ t te overati·,.~cs f;11..uiHc~ a1~e g·e uer·o1,1Uy lnr"fir _han among the ;.1 ff.
ri,cnl tural 1,1011 _dntion~. 1Uuny of the pco11l.e e1u1l103 e(t in the fact,orics,
de·sitc to i ·tv·c ·1 ar~e fiunilics to ,~urk 1u , he lniUs so tbat tb·---y may f! !it
·m ore :•tHl 't .r ibut101l . , to the fan1ily iinntl!!. '"lb~ .r b1·1·11g IT)) the ~.r f:un ·ii )s
,Tit.h th·. u1 ul.i.1 r~.tautli11g tl1nt tlH!J · "Oto work i.n the n1 . n~,.I ~ind fhouglfl.
tb JJc.r ca1,U i · ~t u·n is snJ'aU tb~y ol)taiu ai consicle1"able1
sum by ha·\~iug
a lar~( n1.ulti.tl her11
]l:r tl·e Cn lRJf · N:
0. lJo ~Ton 1=--110,¥ ,.nrrtbin~ of th ·:, existeuee of ,i practioo. in the fa~
rorirs of uile·ri ug to tbe lu-.iul - of' 1"00L1s or to f bu oYcrseer·~ of . ·ect u1ns
( I tlon ·t l pno,v ,v'l1.a
·lrui '"! I .tern1s to el --rr,Jo,v) ~\ bonus or 1-cw~1rd ·or
rue ltl 1 ~e·s t Ju·ntl no i Io IE ,,·l1 iuli t ti s are ablt: , res11 ct 1.\-e13 ,I to 1fS-ecare from
tho ~t l'\·l o =ti "' und •"'r· tlu. a~.; .. '.o t1u1r 11 ~i· - i~ in fi ,~ c:.onr1•eti·f un anJOU"v
he ov·, ~r:seer :: to exuct ns tnnelt l:a b 1~ a. ' J)OS- ·iblo fro;:n ti ose, urul r 'thei'r
·outrol ~·- -\.~ . onhl kuo\, of that 1u:acti.ue ti·o.1n \1t- ·b·;a:t I h t ,~,e hc~jr I aud
iroin _l! -~t~ s · ~1 01:1),' that lJr" \\ 1·t.d1t h~r· e1ubodi~ tl in his 1·e1,1orts.
·Q. Di,l , ~on t'· onH.J iu t;i(.JUta~~t " ~·, th :auytbiug of · I ··t t kiud ·<l1 1·ou - ou. u
< 1•c rhl;Ut!C ·~ -.- .\ .. Xo - .1 r; I dill uot; fo1~ ·1u1 :reusfJn tl1a ; 1n,v t~xpe·:rience
,o.Jl· ol)ser,.~atiou in tlte ,vo1.ki.ug of the ,s yste1u of cn1r1Iu~ u1eDt in th. u~in .:
"-~i,~ u. ),t ~o ex'te1~si,~ - a. ~ it tras iu tho bornes of the O()erutives~
ci. \VhtjU " "'•J~. it tl,,• 'I yon teYoted a ,l :e.;1r to this \Ju :. iue~ of b- COUia,
in,g iiuuilia r " :it.h th· co1u.titiou of the •011e1·uh, es - A~ I · wt1is in 1 ~-'.U..
I u~1t1,orh.:tl 1u~~sclf by cuu,-u ·_iug dnriug · hat 'thnie1 wlt-b the o·bJ ~c . of
~tiu]i
e ,coiu:l itiou oi" the 01u~rittvt -•
,. hi ·" Uu1
J '\\"} . ~ .~1ul {l \ ,n·i I I~ .a '"' h'" Ie a~ a
,, i u order to an . w r Sen.at-o r· Georgets
q,nestion - to fiiul a tabl .-; that · r . '\ \tright has pr '.),1>a1~d gi,~btt~ . be a.ve1~a . e ~i zes of" .f.u.mi Ufg s 1111.ou ;b the op 1-ati\ ._·s in the th.rue g ,,-e.a t manu ..
iact iring cit ·e·s,., and I ha,··e no \V' found 1 _, &u.d 11:ill read the figu r•es :
tives.

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Slate ,ccns.us· of 1815..-C la., tpc.llltion ..

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

1'9

LABOR A~ D CAPlTAL ,

R.ELATJ.ONS B,ET\l"EE..

Q. ·T hnt tu.b]e gh~:""e~ the si'ze of' ""famiHe .. ' Does that mean that the
cl ·1dren in •· nch ea$e c:tre the ~biltlren of .bi. sa;m ~pa~ ·uts, or do~s it in
·'Jude board .rs aud nther 1 er.:, u·, ~·f-4\,@ I ~uppose tba.t it meanA th ·
number of cb.ildrcn. 1i lon." in;g to the -Jl1m ~ly ..
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Q.. ...xcludil1~· the p~1rc1~ts f-..t\ . Tl1 .-, pai~·igrnph in'tr0rcJnt1ng tl1e tab1e·
j.,, .• ' l\",e uext 1~rt~nt ~on1,e · ocial stat~,··t ies, ·wJ1ich Sll)tply ·tbe. data_for
compnri~on. a~ ~eJ!ar,ls i~1:n1iil~t~.~,. tl"·~Uir p:-l'1on~e.,··. fol;fz.~ of fi11nilies, &.,...
·,vhi (•:h. a·re ,so ex 11,U cit
to nf <'d uu, sn mma ti zi n ~ n1 the text.'"
1'hc ~llA IRJL\N. Sn1,1 u~ : 'JOH go DO\¥ to -'lnot'l1 :1 r b1· ..111c I oftbl! Rui'bj1~t·t ..
~r 10
;-.;1 ~sE Yt ·s ~
shou d Ii '"8 to sax u. ,ro1'll i10\\:· os to our iudu.·-·
trinl orgHnizat·on.s in _(a~~ae]1US( ·tts.. 111 ·:. eotton 011er-1ti,~e~, .,~. a c]nss
nrc not org,a-uiz: d.. .L"'bc S.'J1•iun r.s lu.1,,e .hPir Xll.'l.ionid : uion~ 'fbeJ ::~lso
retei, c I he lli,t"",J.1 P~t por ot" uu~~ela. ~ of ruUl oi~ rat i, . s.. \ .;.n·ion ot lu.1r
h tidt.-s;, IJ ~,,., luc+1l LUi{ 11.s, count•(·tt .,:l with : ntio1 ~1 l ( r ·intP·rnn tio1n1.l ·O rg.;_, uizo. ti 011 R,, Pm hra C*- •111·:.r t l1r .11 it ed s, i1 f (IS a nll Ca nod a n ·1,~d , ~Ollt 1u·.i... in!,,!.~1«1n P··
thin,g o·•ter t\l"O hundrt.~ll ]oeal societ;,es~ I un1: a u1~n1 b .r ot t\r(~ t1.•~.~d0.
or~.! nr zotio11~- Ju~11 t t r1n1tional 1~·11o~raplntal ."""ui,ou untl .be l\..ui, ,·bts
of L~ hor; tnu1al ,n of t,,·o d elt~~.a t~ ho(li~• , the ·C xutr-·1I T ,. ult. un•l Labor
U u ~ou of Bo~· 011 n1.1d t'it · Stntt. l~'ederutio:o of" T1.·ntle~ of lla.~achusfot'ts.
'fbc,r a :r co1npnsed of' tlrlt ~u t~ 'i ·t:ut ~u;; rt\1>reS•f nt··1tive~ . fron1 t'lte v·, ·ions
ti·,uh:·s. a1uJ. i~1l.Hu gs for th • pru 11ose of' c.oucc·utrut1ug effort tow-·t.J'(j ~~ ..
.curing a h\!i~ltl ire ,.tel iou a ull utb ft medial 1uea~11r~~ l ~, -1t..:.~ un1J ~t..e
lit to u1 tlt 1··caktili,,. Ju ~nlditi( n to 1. b · trades euun11e1·rtt,~d h'\"" 111 r~ l~•n.·tnu
" 'e lan,:- ,t~:seYeu1l other~ that nrc orgauiz1ed.. I>erbap~ i: ~ is 11ot u,ec,ns·~ 1ry
to enlunt~1ate i-· hi1;:ll1 bn1 l.\-l~btl',~t : 11.atl ,tom ~- •@ · 11~rie11c, in ·t ht ( .onfH,t •. of·
fbese soci~ti.·s "'it h tu(, (..ifJllJlo:er:s of hi bor. The ol\ject of
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garniz~l.t ions ~s.of cour~t: n1uch i ltc·.s·1n ·e, to ,obtain : bead, n.Ju.•en1eutof ·. tl~·w or-.. e .s,, or those com 1,0 ,j ·1 ·g 1' be orga uizat ion8,,,·u I.· ·t ber \¥a grc-1forkt rs or
not, in fiunneia1 aud sosc ·al l"lfJDditioH1 In order to attain tbE'"se , ud.~ ,r-0
ha ,~e to di c~"t our a ttt Jl t ioH t o,,T a .fl securi u"" ncb ll"' gi ~:it.at ioM as ·, ,...i I re ..
mo, ,e the. ·re~tric·ti•ou~ that ie ·t upon our f1ee<lom ind o _lt11.in tor t·be
iucli,~ido.a1 I•.tllorer .a fi•h•·OJl11ortu.uLy to cump t , ,vltb ~1... .oe1•,it d eaJ)i al~
It i· . , gr at cause ot' con1phunt at:noug tbe. ~ottou 01urr, ti,.f~, antl especia]l " :an1on,g tho~•,e e1nl~i(.red bv·

tu · Jarg ·eor1l ·_ra

ion.s, tba t th •·.v· are
ft·eq1u.~utlJ,"" " bJack-U:s.ted" on a ·.tount of me1ube-r-s. ill in t ese trJ.t1e
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·Q... \ Vbat ·i s i . to be b ack ~·l istfid ·'- A~ l't is t,o be p].~e,ed on a 1it4t. of'
namt,s, ·which 1s p·reser,~,e,I by tbe lla1iufac nre s' A~5ociation or Hon.rd
Of,. r.i alfle as: a 'l""n1•;Q,t;;:1on tl"·•·1· 1··t 'i'\i:f1·11 not b·A o.ut'c to h·1·Tiil o·,-~·mng to ~om·c 1·a·r-·
ticiuation in a. st r1ke or to men1 be1'",s bip, ·j n some trad,.; or;ganizati,on ..
,- "!I.Jese eau:ses ·re der ~t ncce sary, accordtng to the ~lannfacr ·urei ' .A '"~Oeia t.iou, to JlU t a })~.r~o11 under t b ; ban:.
Q. \\"l1·rt, do , ..(rt rnean by iug unde · the ban ·. · • I 1neao fhat. it
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of th .·. ,cot·potations. 1.·epresent : d in this boai~d o:f · rad.e or a ·s.o ciation,
Q '';;hilt abo 1.t liat1ais sociation of ,e mployeris -wba are its cb.aia,t;t. r
and o~jects? A . If you will 11ermit me I ·will read a para.':'"ra.p b i"ron1
Mr. W1·i,g ht's .r eport upon. that point::
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. ·O ther man 1,1 f:ichu·ers gr.int E:, .'l f ~t t be l~lack-llst was in e.xi, tenoe. 1 .a nd staietl fha.t,
ite. nee wa ne,t f,A ar. to g a.rd a•.a inst st ·ikes.; one: Myin 4111, , ' ' If ·w e . ,a,Qt d t 0 bll,aeklist a man we ·., onbl 'H &doubt edl'v do so..''~ Anot-here -,u-d. t. t tb re.· as u ,·11 a t.hi.n{I'
u a ' ' b ae t ~U t. ,, Another &ti c.1.: ,,, Tld s [ bla.c k-Ust ifitiJ 'is one by a e0m ·~.i tte~ of mho
Man factureni Boan.I of 'lr:ul ~- A rnnn' ·0 3,ime i,s1Sent to this (u.t:mmittee,,:1)1d t)ley f!!X-amine the Ji ·t and take ac.Oom on i ~ The. b aek-Ust. is ditce.tcd m•o :t-lv 1·oward ·t h ·
membe·r a oft h ~ "l,d . S.pi nnir.-rs,. . n :iou, for tliey cause n the D101t trouble.. For onr ,o wn
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

~ •t-u te . t ion Wt· • tarted. .r •£i - rP ·

S('n·i:c~, att(l it ltth : a ·,rotnpli hftl OJm,e h good as lt ga.v

u:.nw s :uu] _ur- . 11,~u itttl8 ~ t th. : 'IL lS ' I ron1io ~n, hi :J~ m
.tutli g ' ri,!
·••--·~•m,·~t n•·,c1H,\~ six: 1u ,]1 -/,}~iuu . s. lJJa, ·t-[sted ~iuce. Jw.,.t fitH ~
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ai·lr nU of d1 ~ . · nU l h•4•1 f,l <•rat \.. _i.~:He_l by tb - .ag n , em .tl b1' ft a.r che pnssi ...
hi li ty of t I · tltiUHI hu~1u l"t"F,::-J cl i · o,-t; rh g· th. t t h. , ~ hnd ::,z:i. . ·n an\: in f.t1,:rn m ti on, Ono
,wf t.b~•.r.n =·• n 1 hi~ ~ta1 t-n•~nt ~ ·j U f Oi\" r t hn e DHU:i'" 1 y "{il tt· 1 otbt' -. "1 - a id.':'
" \ " fl\ ' :'t' ~
UrnJ ·t h; •.t Y ··r.r f,·w o·f th . op r.:1d ht L, \l.'ill May all.;\' hi.:11 r cl " · ron ean a,!t~
· 111·•· ' h1·1n 1.lw.t tl, ·: i r JHllH 8,,·lH He\· ·:· tu.:" k1uH,\·t~ ..
lfit ,,c~~ kuow.u :]1:u l \V~ .gh·b.,. .,..
) 1> .1 i U) im1i1h 1.11 i,1 •. 1 ~~uuld lu: di 'drl ~c•l at or ., ·'.!' ; (iii von et · tltat I an1 I -p ing
(·• n1:-ii,. · ·r. .1 h I. • 1';·~i i h i.1~ _,,,. ~. • ll r l I ire·ul •~ · 1
k . : 11d ,,.._.n · l a k ·~d 1t·· I h,:i d tJ'i ,-rn y,oli!l
·n1.\· i 1fonu: tio , l !<d ou ld th ·~~- it ft•·c r : ri ~. ~J,!i1111i:n~.
·
l ~ u l ~r t Lt • •, · , ·i1· •u llflst~ ,~H; .:s, i & lTa. u • ·e , ··L1: ~ ~ t ,, 1n·ot•t"f •I wit·h. e _11:'t i .n1, b,ut in t 1·P n1,a,..
Jo:"tty of" ca~·- · t·I n, e1r,. ltf( 1u · ~-~ 1-ut lo i~~ll'l:l, '" · '\YUU l~l b nu~ntit u , tl wa · ·~nffich~nt tu
t? lU 'tllit d i• ·in· l "rt ·iOil1'.IH ~on.
~
\ n . t:~,.rP -,•1 fli·11't tbe ' ~~hl · '· -1:i. t ,-~ ·. ·a1· :n al .1mina h],c;,, it]. titn io~1 one t·ha cmlmdied
tlH that lY3, , pend -~un . i:n the y~·h
nf ....~~~ ! g;a l ]u-, ~u ·n :. tsnJ tJltt1u~nt, ·w.ms f , at
tht; . pinntcr~ a.i.: a llo h·1 _. ~ ·r. t.JJ tUi:J •.ag(•t·l)' ·1n111L he l 1 )~ ,hu~k"'.'l~ ..·tirn~ ir heiu~ a -·
.t-,v.· ·ti· d tlint ·thiir ·,y 1ut·1n 1J··1· of t ]w ~~•it u 1·~ I:''11iou " ·•~r~ ,f,11 fb b]~,..,~k-ti.~·tt :rud could
ll nt oht·tiri wodi: i111_ au~ rn ill ·11 the' dtv; ( L - op ~r:nU:. '. '(\ '~turd 11-., .. t~t ·r . ,,-t•ft! - .,.~ ..
t ~1·.1 I ' ~l'iir ~ (' ' . l11~l t J:(•~ t to tl I '~~- ti . fa .·f •01 fill cl . t iki n ~ .f u F.~t 11 In,- ' r ' ,( llt ' or 'h.,' ' n1ost proa,
.um.11ceu ldng t'be bhl •~i- li -- t~
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'f . · c·u IR.lf .:N .. J i · th! ~ ti nt 1 . •arl,:- {.,·er~ tbh1 ,'Ji' , nu ~ad .se · m. to
,~·o! cent'rate upon '"lU I.t-i,..er. l 'tlu11t from ,: lucll on ln1,··e rea<l an iuY•P sti.~ atiou of flu: Felli Ril¥er t1~ouble" -A.. It is an 1uy·estiiz.ntion o'ftb~
1 hr.: •., c.·iti~ s F· ·n 1i1i~ t 1· Lorn ell n1ul La,ftrl.1 nre. l~all l_i r r i'" caUecl the
::\ I :u1ell es tt: J· < ..L\ n1 f'ri c~t . a II d a ~FIi ·~.~rt ,1e•11 of the t <xtw·m e. 1u tho r'P-1 ti(,1,·s be· we ·n cm · 1~loyt'.:r• 'lull en111loy •.id. are coucentrat ell th,~~e . but there
i.s not u. ~rt1 ,;.t deal ot· 1lifft~1·t u •· . between t he· citJ au~I thr . other·~ 1\1 t".
,1·rt •bt, iu anot.ln r 11ort1on of hiN rti111ort . n~ -~ thnt tint. eon•li ·ion~ ar
1nat Jlrht I.I 1•r tin.., tauu.~ i H ] .. yun S·pr~ n~..;th ,ld . \'\ 01 ,,~,ft-Sltel· nua tdl t be gret t
u1annf~1et irin~ ·reuh rN o ·· tht: · ·t ntt but ·1~ he did not h~ll"'e thn~ or 01>J)ortl nit y to obtH ~ n thr :a. fl"Olll tho
11lu ' he bas i ' ply taken I~ all
lU ,~er a~ a tyJJ of tb .~ ,,~bo.h.··
(l. Not th· l't it llS, i~u1.·tiet1l·1r!~~ v.~or-· than tl1e ot Iler , 1ut rathe1 flla.t
·r i~. a ~:1uu1:.le of t h · otl1 r~ .~ ~\... '"b., :_s the idea .
IJ . J]n tb ,lre b,t,- , b ~n ruorc _· • trike·s iu Fall R-i.\~er- if I coU:oot
~1.ri~ht, tb - n in auy oth.. r t~ity iu :\f 'l ·.sachu~ctts. qj:- . I beli~v th ·re.
h:1,-~ ltt.--eu 1no1c tr■rk ~ , nul qui :· ~ jre'}u ·nt , t.r ik .~ tlu.~·r -. ~ win h r
~ll\rl_; al insh U •e '. ba
ta corn ·. un, er Ht);, (li'\\TH obs .-·,-c1tjom of bla.ck~Hst
i U6 :i n L;1.nri~nc ·, \l~ldcb i~ supt os.c d to, bt one of th -. bu·~t o· ~ the. th, •tu1·3toi,~n ·•. In th,e 0 1 · a : strike tbt:.I"t in t'he l 1 u:·ific miH.· las:t urum -r llr..
l:'o b ..rt 11.ownrd the secret~·try of th .~ Alul · S,piun •r ~ 1'ati uni ·· ·uion,
.~ a y,e the foU(nv in g te .. t I m ,01rr ~
" aid th at :IJi·om 1863 t . 188:!., h ti u1 _·
uf 1'be strike, t he l)rc1ciuc tnin ·.· h,a:tl ]J,a d 38,1 1~ r C nt .. in tU.videUd8, OD
8~ fiOl,.,uoo cnpi ul 01· over ~u ptt:1 t=ent. pe1· x ;i=.1r for n ·.u~t - n lte.1.rs
JI ·. a 1~0 s.i id tliHtt th~- c~1.Jnt, l of th . cone. -.1,.1.had in ,.r u~d :front ~ i,.5no, ..
UUO to '\j~OUt),OOO. - ot,,·it h:staudin.g tb se :l:Mtcts t h e <H\"'~U · · s ot ·t he nJ1ill
I• Hd tt)rc ll 't lu~:ir gil' l 01·tt'r"l ti,.es ou· in to t'b ; ~tr :j,t ru1d th.r · .e l then1.
,,·ith s ·1r·\ ;,tiou uul- ~-- 'llJ~y \i·oubl cou"ent to a 1,e dnction •·. f 18, CP.· ·. ,s on
t 1.J_ei r '"'~ti{(! s of Sii cent g da.:f. T hut •s,, a 1·-e duct 10n t o 61 cents : day.
I know that hat reclac.'t on was att n1pted. to e mad ·~ The op r-a til1 ·:....
,v,e1-e u uorg:l1liz,e d at th ·t io1 . ~u1d there were a gn:a , 1ni D):r tlnu,g ou
of' ~tllJ)lo:, llll. ut,. both m"' 1.c . and feu1a I •·s. The~~ reftt .. ii tQ ac~~P thi8
reuu · . tiou,, a ·. tt.r ~y, ,~erJr pruin.~11V" clain1~tl bat th . y could 11ot maintain
~ ~ i ter100 on .the rate of ·1·1,a · oft"' red. . . rauy of t h:e gi I·. ba.d a very hard
t ilne to obta1 n tb ir li,rin g from. th - wn~ · ·p aid before t · .: proposed.
rP,luctinn~ TJ1 ., or1rra,ti \ e- .· fo1..mPtl 3 t,_ ~n1porarv o .gani.zation anti. afte·r
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81

BELAT'JONS B.E TWEEN. L1.. A.BOB A'N D C·APIT.AL.
to11 ~·id<"1~ab'l e

1>~·rstu111ion oue of the oldes:t employe·, of the Pa.ci6c mill1·,

3.11·. J ohu O:''"ilvie, ·,,1a cbosen pres,i den.t of tb.e organiza:tio.n.. He Yf as
a m an uu i versall1 r,espected by hi~ t1 ·llow wo rk~eo, _-~nd, as was ~up-JJO ed, bJ~ l.1is t!mplox-e-rs.. Be IJa.d ·b ee-n ,c onnect~ with the establi.sb~
nu,nt for a. g·r<11 i t 1nnn'b ·1· of 3~ .· -a rs, and n~as a.. le·ldi.og member of one of
1he ,·•hurches, t · ,e r , a .{: ·ut1en1.au of sobriety, ho•nes.t s, induetr .. , and ex~
t~~ Ue11t .:~b araut'er in
his iudu stria I and social .r elations. He .accepted.
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an

t·h .· 1n-eidd.,e ncl of the o,rgan."za.tion., and as onn.,: lad,y, a llis · .·1a1·y .Ual-·
JrJ .. t , ok 'the 11,ositi on of ··ecr ary-a l ery tnte'lligen;_;Fi.ti of_ exce_p tioHal
a.bHitJ, ,~bo had W'Or'ked. in · be mill all her life1 Jlo,r .som!e time-t.be3~ ent11e a,..ored to• obtain a settl,e ment of tbe trouble by concil·iation:. They
n ~ut . , e· a] itf t .mp.ts to arbitrate w·.ith. the boar1d s. of directors,, bot,1
ac~urd.ing to their ow.n te·stin1ony,, all those atte·m.:p ts. Yfere :r :1 1nlsed an-d
-01ne ver,y liar b terms w·e113 .a p,p ,l ied to tb-,m, to the yowig ladies. as
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w·ell ,tt·~ to the men •.
QI Do :roo m.e an ha·r :'h language 1-A~ Ye· t sir. The •. :trike coutiulled
fo r .a coo ··ide!m ble tim - ~, a.ud \".ariollS otber trades as -. isted the.011erativ•es,
1

to son1e extent tbrou~b. thei temporary organization,, ga·v•e tbem some
Jiua:ucial assistance, beld 1 1digna tioH me.eti.n.g · ill. ,rarious localities,
a·11cl sucetedetl i:n fighting a v,e rr b.a·r d battl.e ; but the operativ·e s ere
ti 11 aH,y ,d e·i.ea't:et.l by ha,.. in g t bei1.- p,Jaces. fill.ed1 chiefly b:y :importations.
t't~m otll r parts of the couotrJ · .and from Great B.ritam.. Then a.fter
thet deemed it useles·_ to fi..:' h ii any· longer,. the3r endeavo:red to resume
t. heir e.mployn1ent..
Q,t At wba·t w __ g·_ s !-~j A · __ he ·w ages t
~mp,l oyers, _w~ willin,g to)lilY 08 r~nts for ·t he girls a,nd a oorr,espo.odiu, reduction in the p~y
4Jf the · al,e spinners. J.:lr. O_g il vie and ··[iss Halley, np to m,y Jas.t in~
forniatiou., had been unable to obtain employm.eot,. although they w,ere
l10th and bad. always beeo cou· -~ d,e red. honest, i.ndustrio~s, and iu every
1eij1,oo · superior· opera.ti, e ·_
I -·, a,, a letre.:r ·. ritte·n IJ:y _liss, Halley not
a gi·eat while sin,ce,, in which -he .- tated tba - . he ·was almost. driven 'to
d · tmir,. ·t b .t s.bt3 was un;:tible to, do an,y ,o tl ·e~ kJnt _ oJ work, having
, -ork.ed as au operat.i e .a ll her life;, t,hat she had applied fror . ork in.
·-·cl1.11ious, par,- ·_ ot· N e.w England, bu _ f h.at as, soon as her naDle beca:me
k n.o _~ H or he1 ·1de-n tit.r ·rev·ea l.ed she w··• s. invari _bly told there .a s no
·1vork for he1~'". l r,iJ Ogilvie was in the same coodi'tion-unable t-o obta-iu
employ.m
· -ent.~ I do 't know a }~thing about t'h em wit'h in the la . ,t few
w,ook .,. bu.t a.t n1y lat . "t iutor·ma.tion th _. ease.s stood iu; I have stated.
' - :~ ,eases
.• ,··_. ooeurre,
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- - ut1"U
T .... .. re nee,. an·d
·,·- ·d- th··
·a
,- grea
-_ .·.·t··_
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_._ l. . m 111 1·~orme
~ a ·tm.in ,~instauet-'~ of a like cha:racter resnlted from fhat strike,.
B·r ,he ,c, ...-._ -._- A'. :
"
Q.. Do ~\-OU. kuo-w wha tl1e last divid@nd o.f that eo,m paoy was, preeediug tbe reduction of ·wage . -. -A. . 1 h.ave no further information on that
JlOint than. what I ha-l'"e .a lready ,g iven. I d.o 001· know· the exact figures,
l•n~ .I know j · wa,s uni,~e·rsally- conceded by most of the New England
Jlr,ess that the ~tri.ke 1
Seeme<l to b. cau ;ed by a wholly un·wa.·r ranted
reduct.ion. in wages.
Q. How m.an.1: e111ployes , .ere th.ere o the Pacifle }lllls that were,
aWected b .,_ tha·. r :duc _ion ~-A. A H.· tl , ot er three thousand..
.. ·,. How many op ·r·,ative.s .a;re ther,e in. the cit3.1· of Lawrenee. in tbe
,e · tto,u factories -·- A.. I h· ·ve not tbe number in 1ny mind, bot I thin'k ·
lrlr. \Vrig.h t ~ -,-es it, i'n ~01ne pa ·_ of his report..
Q., Is, th re much wooJ -n manufactn:r ing fn La?i.r,e ucel~A There is,
so·m _~ there is the Lawrence ·w oolen Company· th-~re.
Q. Bnt, the mauntactore tb. er-e is principa11 · ,o f ootton,, is 'it not f.~ a.
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82'

Rf:LATJ.ON,S BETWElr - LA.BOR AND CAPITAL..

I tbi.nk so. In Mr. Wright's rieport there is th.e testimoDJ,· of·a mann. .
factur-er w·ho ,s aid:
There 'iB not a margin of 6 per·,c eDt.. on oar capital.
1

And 1\lr!!. Wright s&ye, :in this -ease:
-

Au examination of the :fl1:umooa of the cor-po:mtu:i,u ,o f w lnoh he was epeakin,g: shows
·t ha t i '. . ~, · ,e sted ea . ~ tall i_s • .-b out thle~ an4. a. q ~ times its,ca.p ital etook, and ·t a't ,
in the,fifteen years sinee it was es abliebed, it .has set aelde undi · itied pmfits mnount..
ing to , 10, e tlia_n 15~ p · _,~en:t (),f ~ ~-~ t ,ita Bto.~ '-.•__ ':fhis t1bo"~8, at _le e,t, .tu tMl·t cent.
per ,a nnum ov,e r and a bo,r a l d1 v,iden,ls. .A. margu.1 of 6 per ,c .n , en the l'n ·v,es ·
e 'l),i tall ,o f' this mill · .ould mean ne · l ·- i!0 p . , ce t.. o.n its ca pi't.al stock .

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Q~ "' In\"'e: ,te(l capit ·1.'' What d.oes that mean That-cannot be in. est1nent in iuteres,t bearing secor.i.'ti,es. Doe· it not ,m ean a.n. iuves,t ~
ment in t'he increase of the manufact11riug establishm.e nt t ,A •. I :am
unabJ,e to de·t ermine th ·· exact meanmg. I suppose th.at Mr - Wrig'b t
nse<l tbe woro ·. i'n their oniina.cy aooe·ptation. He means 't,h e plant.
Q. Then to get at tbe real n · tore of the tb.ing,, if this ''' invested ca.111.t al" i ·. an i' er a e o.f plant, ith. th a 'increase of p'Jant comes a ,corre-,
~n,din_g· i.nc·rea ·_e of' the· capacity to d.0 business, <1,oes there not 1- .A"
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N:a tn.-r alll •
Q. It is ,a s thouri the divid,e.od . had been paid to the stockhoJ:ders,
and then had ·been iov sted in -:•n i.n c ~ of the plant, mstead of b ing
taken out and inv,e st · d by· tb.e 1ndiT'idnal m:embers of· tbe ·c orporation
in otber ways, ·i ~ it not ! - -. It :ma~r be. . · suppose it ts.
Q" 'T hen, if that he so, is it 'Dot right tbait. they . bould ree.e··ve an in-come u11on. the eoti1·. iu,,._.· s.tm.·.nt- ·he inves:ted e&l)ital as well _,. tbe
,origi,na1 !-A.. . ndoubtedl,Y·, _he~- have. a l·e.g al rigbt to it.
Q But I m an an eq t ·· bl,e ·rig'h.t. fa,man is.in bosi,ne ]; be pu:ts. out
bi,s ca-pita) autl gets 6 J>er ,oont. on it, a;nd that.in·._· rest becomes ,so mu.eh
additional capital to,·be in,~estetL G -u'ting, then, that 1nteres,t on income·
·f rom capital i.s equitab]y taken in B'DJ"' ,case, . ·h y honld not these millowDers,, w·ho,, iu tead of in:~es.t~ng in. bond, or in other ·tb.iogs, ~invest
their dividend ., 1n. an increase ,of.their plant, wbJ should tb .· y n.ot, draw,
annualll"" · u jucon,e upo
·. _, n that add·i tional invested ,cap:oital M iniereased
va1ne· of Ill.ant I
Mr, 'G E10RGE. I t.'h in - 't h,a t statement,, though, go ·s to· be ,e xtu.t of
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·he anuua] dividends . .

The OB'A IBMA'N.. That would be j0,st the same i.o principle~ To tbe
witue -·_ _ :.] If' they po. tileir dividend•·- into increasing tbe business why
sh.onld not they r~.eei . e i.noome annually upon th ir increased. in.ves,t ment T-- A. Provided their incriea, -·- •· was equitably ob-t aioed, and not ,~t
the expen . e of · ,t,an"a tio-n p·r.ices to their empl0;yes, they sboold.
Q~. I am assum,i ng that of cours . . S:i x per cent. is the ord:ina:ry
·i nt re :t hi t.bis e.ountJ"l
•ow can y·o u. e peet manufaeturin;g esta·b ..
lisbm nttt to he 10.ahi.tained unless those who put tbeir ,c apital into.
~
. .rec.e.1~ ·e·.
d on 1.nves._
,.
t•
t e·m rece1,:--e
a bo_· ut t 1·1e av'era.ge 1nlieres:
w.h~·1eh~ 1s
ments generally· .- -~i\. \Ve su1,,pose, of ,c ourse, th.ait money 1s i.o v,e sted in
business i1l orc.ler th~ it ma,.. b • 1:ncrea.sed, and. tbe laws ,of business
of couf1 •·.· gov,e1·u 11eo1,le who 10.,vest, m.o ot\ -· in the ootton and wool -n
manufactures, a,~.the,~· ~o,,ert people ., ho in ·· e',tin an" other bu . ~ness.•
T 'ha t is , 01netbi.n g- apart friom 1n-v exact ·:-phere of observation,, but, I
ae'knowled~ · t}ieir 1·ig t to . retlll'n on their i.nv stment ·p rovided. their
~ s t, b
-.
b nsnness
1"' oon d uc ·t ed
. ou .a.u h. onora1bl
. e a.n d. JU,
..tu.us.
Q. Btl · :you ~a: ~th is manufactur•e r· testifies t . at . pon heir in.v e tDtt.ut. r beir original ua.r•ital aud ·t he iner ase of ·the 1.•laot, the -p rofi.t h~,
l1r.cn less thau 6 pe1 een
Does tha · · tatem _,n t hav·e r-efere:noo to the·
.JJacifte. 1\IiHs ~- A . :No,, ,s ir; I sup:po~·, no .
Q~ \\ ell., _oppose t.hat ba,d been. true of the. Pacific , Uls, befo,re the
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88

RELATIONS BBT\VEEN LABOR ilD CAPI·T A~

· trike,. and it was a fact t.hat the 1Stoekholders. of ·those mills were rvJcei¥-ing n_
pon their inves,tm,e nt leas than 6 per ooD.t.:,, .s hould, you -hink
tbnt v.~.as an nnrea -onab,l e profit fo.r them to b making in t . bl!ir bus.iness · ·~ A. It 'is not an unreasona'ble. 11rofit ;so far as, tha·t is ,ooneena.ed ;
bu·t , .a ccording to t'h is te timony the w·hole pla.nt had be.e n extended
th1Y'Jup;h investing the c.a.'p ita.J, and then tbe,y have bePn payin.=:.· di,:r i1

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dends upo11 the ex.tended in,.. estm.ents a.ud ood.i,~ided. profit· ha.v e been.
set aside amounting to o,~ _r 150 ·p er cent., upon toe original capital
stock~, Tbo "" · p,rofi'ts m.u st necessarily .ha,,.e c@me from the labor~ -o f
'their opera.ti \'"e~.

Q. Uo you understand tba.t there 'h ad been divideuds paid annually·
·i n addition to tha .· p,r ofit ·! - . This ,s ho,w s at least IO per cent. pe.r annum o,-er and abov·•· all di,. . i.dend.s.
The ( J.HAIJnl'AN •. If tbey received div1de.11rd annml]y· like ordinary
int.ere,. t-, .and then, beyond that, there was another ·pro·f it of O per cen.t•,,
~,nnua·n ., , _which they-invested,,. th·•. 't ·..•·ould be equivalent to very e:oor1

u ·oos pro.fits,, of ,coQ~; ••.
1'he W .I TNESS.. T·bat is

the understandin,g I have of' the statement in

--.pit'.-a.
t .h
___is·.' p, amg
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I abould like also to "i.n . ert in this. record. tlle tabular s.tatem.,eut give·n

by Mr. Wright oft.h e swo·r n. fluaneial returns of ·v arious corporations
iu Lo . ·e]I, Lawrence, and Fall River.. It is as follows:
FALL JUVEIL

"N arnM of OOf'POl'3.ti&DB.

--~~
~~

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84
L-OWE,L L.

LAWRENCE..

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The ca;u; es of strikes are, I belie\re,, a ,r,e ry importan . part of t ·. ~ subject whic.h yonr co:m.mittoo i - tu,eon.sider. Th ~ re •.· ult, I · bink" ·in laq;e
mea.sur from. tbe excessive cou1 etit1ou ·betweeu 1nau,., · of ·t he ma.nufa.c tur ·rs, aud also fr,o m the lack of the pirit of mutual concession bet.ween employers aud e-wplo3retl-the harduess ,of tem1l8r tbat exi ts
between the different classe~, .. nd. , hich we am en.deavoring- in 01ur
txade societi, - to obviate, ·_ o far a:s. toay be,I by orgau·iz1in.g our action
,s o that. ~e ·mav
J work on a ,8:\ ·.temati.c ba 'is, and. not be snbi,e c.t to the
i'm·p u·lse or emio tion of indi \ddua] _. .
bel '",e,,e that ·.. i · exoossi'v,e, oom..
petition p~odoces a ,eonditio11 .a.1n(u1,g tbe emp·1oyes. ·.h.ich render,s ·t he,
t-br -e rights. endeaivo,r , d to be, g~1a.ranteed bir the ,Consti•- t~on oft
nite~ 8!3t.:es li±-:.·e, 1iberty, a.ud th .' p~~nit of.· b appine&J1 impossib. 'le ~fo·
the Ja.1Jorn1g classes,, · nd what .e seek 1s freedom from. the oontractln,g
n..n d narrowing effects of a po\! er·~y that fe'Dd.ers the purs,ni't of' bappi
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RELATIONS BETWEEN LA.lJOR AND CAP·l ·AL.

85

This., pra:c.ti.c · of blac . ·•- listing is on .· of th most fruitful so,urc . · -of bit-

te.rness be·t ·w,e -· n em.plorer and. ··mp]oyed iu that depart.m entof industry,,
i1nd uoe that doe more ·t b1a:n alm.o _·· anything· else to irritat,e t ·h e, ope .a.ti v . . T .b .'J'' _,s as_they - boul,I bn ,. . ._th · ri_
g bt at Ieas.t to m.a ke egiti·mate.
. ftorts ·. o obt'aiu th .· bi~b~,•t runrk:ct ·pri.ce the-i ean ·b y com.bin -d. associa Uon,. h-cca.n.."• th y Hod ·• hat th ,_ indit"idual laborer· ca.n o-t go into
tbe nark.et nnd eornpet · "1th the a , soc1ated.. apital of th.e co11N>rndou ~, alld eautiot po ·sttss t e fr edom. of compe ·1t~on wllic:h wou. de ~1 )ll~ bil I to obtai.n tlu~ l1igu .. · t market pri ce for his labor wb · n he bas
.:t ga·ust h1n1 a lbrc · ij(l niuc·h superior to h.ir- o,w u. W · re :o_g nize· the fa · t
thn\t nI·l,·h ration t fllu do it ·_'Teat deal, but ,,.~,e reoognize ,a ) o the fact that.
ar·b ·11·ation ,¥it • uothi.1 ~ llaek of it on one sid.e a-nd with ,g reat strength
1~ h iud 'i' ou , hr. otbei· :i.,d · i.~ ln1t, a na.ru: , . nd. tha.t experience amon.g
iudividn•d:·. =iufl amou,g 1 ses. i-" the , a.me in th:i.
·; ~t as amo g ·
p,~opl,~s .It i o:ul - t.h stron.g uatiou · tl1.a t arbitrat, wit b each otber~
'\ ery r~ rely .u. 1,ou'" :.rfu1 nation arbitrate · ~ ith a. t1 · ble Olle. So to ga·in
:~on1e u10< ic m. 01· st1.·eucrth that,,,·nt . ua·b le u · to trade on acomparati, -1.y
tH..J1u1l footing u.itl1 as ·- c-iat _;d ca1>.i.ta1, we lurte orga:nized OD"I' trade so .
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I. ·~1ink t lu t ou-e of the n10 t . nitable and necessary Tiemedi s
we can 1lropo86 is t ·~ ~staiblishn _·-nt of boards of' arbitra ion com posed
of ~tn equal un1nbrr of e·mploy r , : 1d em1,,Ioyed, whi.ieh,. nnde·r ·:nffieient
1~ . gula.tioo, ·bonld ha ,-c jur.l~icti-o u w.b n called. upon to act in . , tUo g
<he di vu-t~~, bet ·• en. · e t\lo clas s, "~i h ·au umpire selected. by the88
repres ota ti ,·e::, of In b -r an,I , pitc{ll Joint l: •

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Bs~ llr. ·G EORG · :
Q. ·. hat i 3·our theory for- the appointm .nt of' those arbitrators t i\.. I llo11't- kno,v tba . . ba ·e endea, o . d to tbi.o·k out th ~ exact method
or th ··. e· ~- cu·t1ou of the pbt11

Qj! Do you desire o hav,e a. law · na-0te,I. b~ ~ wb"ch the diiferences be-

etn ploy·el'i ._and their .·. m1plul es ball b ·- sett ~d by· arbi · t'i · tion, o.r

t \\.,ce n

, . . it :fiou·. exp ctat1on to brin.1:t.· .about a state of'opinio-o ·which will com.p ~1 thi }, set ti• men o · he.m in th.at wa. 1-A . think that ·bo 'h meas.
nre n1il!ht
couten plat d. .A Jaw woul-d be u eless without pubHc
opin io11 in it•.. fa\ o·r, and. 11u bl·c o_pi.nion ·. ·•u Id not p ·rhaps acco-m pli: .h
a, gr, ·11.'t, <I• -al .· ·it hont th• · adoption ,n f some de8uite.Ie,g~tl means by wbi.c h.
i.t conliel · ork. I th.iu'k howe'\rer, it ls immateri I how so.c h bo ds
~bon1l1 be appoiH ed, · he.th ·r by ·he go,-,e rnor of tbe S.tate, or b¥ the
· e·lee.tion of tl1e pet:11,.Je., or wi .11 - be assistant . of tb.e Nati-ona.J. Go, eroment..
Q.
ould :,. oa ex:pect ~ucb <.. boar-,'l to be a _pe1~111an.ent body, with tb.e.
J)otrers of a oour 1 and · .r igbt ou t .e part of laborers or of . · ployers
to bring ·i co1n1Jt1int 01~ a snit "'u. som · forni for the adjnstment of the
-ra· e of \vages. that sl·011l<l be JU id. by th·· em11-l0i:rer in case of an.. - c11 · ·ert~nce on tha · sub,1 ct be wee-:n him a.nd t.he employ,etl - - ·• The arbi ra.to:rs ought, t-0 8et le all d.itlereuces of tba · kind..
Tbe C ·HAIR:nAN
on a ·· of oour, ~ a.war tJ1 ·11t t.b re is al wa:r: power
a:mong men tu agre 'll)OD a. se tiem . ut of th. ·.r ditlefences bv .arbitration ·i.f the,- cboose to ~10 so,. You kno . tnat that ri.g ht e ists 1rrce1. .: l' --c
~i ,-e. or 1 ~ri~lation.,,bnt. tbe difficulty L to get- th • ~ mployer , ·t o agree to
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&onie ]>eru1aoent legal power or method 'b .·. which t.he board of ar·bit.ra.ioH -oould ll8 nulm · ued u1to xi.stenee .an-d :1ctivity when the r0 ._ a&ioo

for its inter\"' :n tion arose ·T

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The WrrNES .· ' Yes,
The 0 .HAJ.KMAL"'li.. And such a ·t r,ibunal m.·o st ·be the eTeature of the
la .., w'ith tbe ·power of the oom.murri.t y to •enforce its tlndin,g sl ·must it

not •_
T lte " 1•1 ESS'il I th i 11k i't 1n nst be.,
~11·. GE,OBG E 'bat '1"'rOWd be 1mpracti,c abl,e ' i<H~ this r a ' on, that
~i ber party dis atisfietl could tlecline 'to carry ont the ,d ecision. For
inst.anc.,., ,~ou could not co,w _p el an ,o perati,~-e to g·t ay in the f~.tory and
,,·ork for: the "~a ()!es fi · ed upon by the tribunal, .i f J1e ,vaut ed to go somev.·b.ere else; nor coo Ii ,1 yo compel ·,he ewplos·er- to•~eep u-p hi.s,esta1blish ..
aH•·.n t or to _
pay tb.e wages fixed. UJ>on, Yon se.e~ therefore,[that com pu1so1·y action by 18t1.ch .a board ,rould be im1>os iblei
'I ho ,~ lTNESS _ Pardon, Bl. - ; 1 dO not tbi _'k any of US, conten1plate
any c-0n1pulsor;· prooe s, but .r ather t.h ··. right to ap_peal to ·t h tribunal
of 11ubli. feeliug autl. pub.be sen.ti ·· ent; fo'l'" we believe that the foroo
of 110.'blic opiuiou ·w oold. gen.eral:ly be greatlJ~in fa,v or of tbe party wbo
·""as ~"illiug to rs obmit disputed questions to an impartial tribunal ..
)I ~ G ORGEi You look, tben, only ·t o cump ulsio bs public opinio,o. ,;
is, ti at the idea t
TJ1e WrrNESS. es ; an arbitm. ing body that could be ap1w.aled to
~lt ·will- optiona]~y,
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B·J'C" the CRAJRMA.N' =
Qt :H a,e you ot that llO er now 1- : . We ·h a;ve no su.c h pu.blic official bods.
Q. W 'h t yon want-, then, i·• •• a board of a-rbit - ·ti.on creat.;ed by la . . A. I snpJJOSe tha,t it w,ould h.ave to be e~ated by law in order to, ba.v e
an offi.c ial existe11ce. The idea is this: We find it im.possible .uow to
obtain a.n.yth1n,g li.k.e the,e·mpJ.oy -r's ide of the question.. Be teJls ·n s
that be cannot pa,- a, certain. l"'"d,te ,o f , a_gea. W ,e :t now that, we cannot
Ji e in a res.p ectable manner upon 'the rate that be wi~he·& us to work
for.. We ha . e. HO'thi'n.g ·more t:h an bi ·. statemen·t as, to the condition of
bis busiu.e:s s. or· his abil1·t y to pay fair wa.ges ·OD -the o-ther lmndt be
know·s the eond·i ti·Oh. of our b-u siness and onr eircumstanoos; be knows
jus:t. what we recei.v·e io,r our Jla,bor and the market prices of 'the neooas 11~ies of life, and therefore b,e know·s onr exact situation... We haive· no
pow-e r to examine h.ls boo.ks., and. p-r oba'b ly i't W'Onld. no~ ·oo well for u
to 11ossess that power as indi\:icluals; but w·e feel t~a.t if' w,e con.Id rSSY
to him. ''Wedo not ·w ish to precipit:1te a oonflict, with you or to bann
your bus1ness.; we. only w·· _nt to ·f ind o,o t wha't you ,c an re::,sGDably and.
l~gitimately aifo-rd to giv·e u ., 'for onr labor, and there is an o · .c ial boa~d
of' arb•itrat,ion nu borized by the. ·G overu.-W:en·t to a.ct in ,s uch a caa a,.
tbi
Now, · ill yo . come befbre that board wi.th ~sand ·there .Pr•e sent
a sta.telllent of your· eondit10n t lf you do, we will accept tbe.. verdiet.
of that t.ribo nal a,a, to w hethe-r i't i ., po ·. ib.J.,e fo r you. to give us the rate
of wa,ges we ask,[or not..'' Of conr~e ·-bere can never tie a Jaw enactell
t, .' . "Om.p el a111 indi,; itlna1. to wor-- fo ano ber.;, that would be ,s implj
legahzing · 'la:very ·; bnt the crea ~o~ of such. a board of arbitration a; l
b.~ve su,g ·g estetl lYOuld, I au,~ .a _is,6 ed, !1.a e a. .· . ery _
g reat, teudeu.cy to,
1-,.rotluce a ·illi 1gness to airbitrate that does, not exist at present.,
Q. Tbeo, 300 vrould give th.is board of rbitratioo power to ,c.ompel
tbe p 10doetion of tbe ma.nnfaetur,er'~ book and .· -troe is tatement of his
bos'i'ness _-A.. If be acoetl·tecl the ser, ices of the board I think they·
•OU . ht to ha.\"',e p(nrer to m·a ke ,s nch an e .. a111dnsti.on. I would have it
und~rst.ood tbftt w·hen th1e ser,rices of the board w·ere aceep'tied that
o·uld .JI ;";ollo•
.~:.:
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8,7

REL.A..TIOYS BETWEENI,&BOB ,.&ND CAPIT,A L

1

Q. Bat there is the diffimilty· again. By what metbod am, you tom-~luc:e th·l\ e1Dplo¥er or the manufacturer to accept the senices ,o f this
1

lnm.rd !-A. As I · tatecl at ftrst, there would ~ a reciprocal relation
betv{,een publiu sentiment and. the 1a·,v·~ We should. have the power
of public enf"meut o-· our side in dealing with. a large ·m a.nufactming
,concern, v. he.-u vt · bad. eud.ea, ored to arbi·t rate our differeuees through
this official board.. "\!l hen the ,v~.r kingmen made s,neh an otie·r and i't
,1:as refu _·· d by t-b,eem1)lo,ye.r, tb -ir p&siti.ou would be s,t rengthened and
we boold. be s111,11ort ·d b -~Jlublic sentiu1eo"t. We would be able: to say·,
' " e. · avo ask d a certa~ u ratH o.f ,f'ages ·w hich we think reason.able ;
the t .-n1plo5 .rs, s.aJ · t.bat they are unable ·t o pay us -the wage: that we
<lemiand, but the,.. .r. :.fu~e to ,~11,bmit the question ·to the. aibi.t rdtion of
tbe tribn.nal. appointetl for that ·p urpose," and, 'be1~· fore we may· :l egitlmate'ly eaH upon th._ publi,~ at lar_
ge to sttstain u.s eit· e · in refosin_g to
· ork foT these emplo~ ·,c rs o:r in .a1iy otber course tba:t, we may punue
vitb1n the limit ... of tlJ e Jaw· in teyin.·· to make the r1 r . cognize th ·· jns-.t iee of our de·m ands.
Q. o.blio opinion might ·oo on your side,, ·_ nd p·r o·b ~·blr ·w ould ~e 10
mogt cases-; but,. 11 ··· ,!'e rtheless, thu manufactu~r miab·t , ,c hoose to .ke -,1,,
:bi~ nioney an.:J. reil1· . to accede to your req nes - for an. in:erease of .ages
or a ,c ontinuauoo uf e:i:isti ug .r ates Tbe point t ''b
. at I .-.an· to get at, is
tbi~: In wbiit ,vay and. ·.·· here ,tomes in that-coere.ive puwer w ·e~ w,o uld
reni<le1"' e,: n 11nbli,e O(tinion --•-·u -ficial to you ~- .A.. We l'e~gnize the
fact tbat we cannot :xpoot au1 ,ooercion th · t.·will be final a·n d tlecisi ie,
tlu,t 1 e must dep .ud to, u l.ar ·_. _ d ,00ree upo,n the , ·a11:ous Jactors, that
go t.o ·m ake Hp pobU c 011iu.ii0n ~ But \\'e tbiu.'k this. bt1anl o,f arbi·tratio11
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ifid in obtainin"
1. 1ubh,c · ., rmpa
: th ; and ·practi.ca'l co-o~ra~
rt,11 ·
J,~
tion.. l\ e do not wish o extend t,be services of such a tribu.1,al, so far
,as I am able to state t'b - sentiment of t '.b@ workingmen, we do not ·w ish
to ha,. :· Hnytb.i ng ihat v."ould i oterfer;e with the rigll . of the rnanufact•· d'. 1,1
"' "'dw ·'I or a corpo-rat1on
~, to
' .k~eep l11,IIS
, •· b
.
urer as an ·i.n
,U'-.1uess
w t act. ,,,..,.. e
-on"tr '\\Ti -~b to ha,.. · ,.01D · ·. authorized macllin1er1 by w ·h1ch 1.f be emp'lo¥er
.,
"' b'
"' ·p ro.t es ta t·_
·
. "ty t o mee;.
t ou.r d
·we.1.. · ,· ~aII- ,s1neer.-·
10
_ .is
.•Jons
of 1ucapac1
-•· e,.
1 a : ds, he · i ,g ht b,a\"'e. an 01•portunit3- to go be.fo•r e an .a othoriged tri-bun~1l and. ·ba;,..e au i nparti,a1 dee.is.ion of tbe q ues.tion at issue, so tba _h.e
1n".ght obtaJn 'th• bene·fit of tbe verdict if we w,e re wrong, and natnrally,,
~,s, u conseq_u . nt. ~ th . verdi ·t of the public; beeanse labor is g,enerally,

woultl be

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- t least in its anorganized stat-_ ,. the wea,k r party; , nd ·i f•he had ri.,g ht
on. hi , sid . s, "·ell a str-engtb it w,oold be u·t ter'ly n.seless for ·ns to bold.
ont again·· i him ..
Q.. l\i.·ha.t y,o n propos , then., i. •. really tbe creation of an advisory·
boaNl f-A. Yes.,. sir; there. i.s at th.e. ·p resent time a _mo~,ement in._the
St.«tt.,e legi .lature of P ,e un "ylvauia toward 1s ecuring so.ch a board. It bas
been s,u g_
gested hJ" Senator ·wailaoo, a t1ibunal of appeal oorrespondioCF
to some exte11t to that w.ll.i cb. I biif"e sn,ggested.•
.A uothe;r r-emedy, aud one that " e shO'n Id place great reliance on, won'ld
he, the e.stabl 1sb.me·u t of a national hHreao of Iabo- and s.t ati tio .., in
order tl1at accurate dat · 1night b. obtained as 1bo the pbysi.c al, mental,
and moral cond"tioa of fhe people. ,employed in the ,rarlous mee.'haoical
an<l toonufac. nri.og pu.rs'l1its1 so a;s 'to pre .. ent a clear and com J>r-ehensi, c picture o the indt1s trial condition. nud rel-tious,of tb ·p opl .· t,o all
1

who u11igllt desi1~ to o'b tain it as a basis for intcllig·e nt acti,o.n. iu. the,
t'nture.. " ~e. b lieve that such. a b~reall wonld be at pre ·ent the ,g reat·t s·t >e:neflt-t.hat could he cfJnferred up.on u.s. l is nnueeessary 1br me
to e·labo. · ·te that i.dea,, a , I have no doubt that _g ··nt'1eweu who are tio
follow me · ill have something· to sa;,. about it .;. bi t of course its app,li-

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88

BELATIO,N S BETW'E -N

e-abj]it.:V'
can
"'

~BOR AND CAPITA'L .,

- seen br
... o'bsei~viog-the work done by tbe State bure,•·us.
.

The National Government eou]d_,c ertainly further this 'Work b~r -- prop·J,rhoice of' agents and a l\'iSe measure of e,x ,e cution,. If wrong exi~ted
t.ln:1.)~ '+ould expoSie it to tl1e ligbt of (1u-y, ~ind 'i f, on 't he oth~r hau<l onr

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. -,•-ils ar,e, only im.agioar:f anti foolish, tha fact l 'O 1ld st' ud exposecl to
th public e,ye. ,ve are " HH ug to let our case re,s t upon tbe 'fullest
'P Off ibJe inve~tigntio-u n1:ad tl sc1:i phou of th - ooud'ition , and r -Iation---,r
Jabor ;1nd capital 'iu t -e nite1l ~tat,t ·st
1-.he C - IR _N. I do uot see - , iSli g·hte~ - diflicu] ty in the- creation
of S-tate o --·cer -., or Jlerhaps of uational -01ffioors,. either by e]ection or
ap,Jlo:intm,e nt, whose duty it tihou ld b('• to take charge of such qtlestions
a --ure iu,~01,. ·e d ·i n d.Ufe,ren,c-es betw,e er em1p,Joyer.s and employed and to
acqnn int them, el ,•e,,s with the fact .-_in each case as thor.ougbly as possiblP. f1-o,m w·1u1t -,.. r ~ouroes of ~nforrn: tion t.bey ooultl draw npo-n,, .and
to gi,· : the ,ve,i gbt of their opinion either in oue, directi,o n or the- other.
'fh,1-t cou Id tladoubt -dly· be done, and it won'ld ce ta-i Jv ha,,,..e grea·t
wei~lrt with the- p-ubHc; bnt wb- tber 1here oonld. b0 a, boar-d of a_
rb1t~~tion c:rea ted with l . gal 'P OWers- that would be, Si'V ailabl~ t.o you for the
llt1rpose of gi., ing a j dgm.e nt that would be dooisi, e in any case is
_ lu1t I am tr, ing to have you consider.
Th lV'IT : 'SS,. We d esi _- furtber, the eufo,r,eemeot ,of the nation~-l
eight--hour-:Jaw., On.e of 0,n r m.ost press-in,g needs, we tbink, as a, elal-isi short _'f hou_: -,o f labor in all the industri.al p-ursuita of the eountl,-,
a -:d we find that toe whole intluenee and t enden,cy of' the non;,eoforoe-,
m.ent of the national eigb~hoor law is to impede all efforts towards, ob·t aini:n g shorter hours of labor in oor , arious pursuits in dtfleren t pa1rm
01· the country. We be'JI(l!Ve tbat tbe, condition ,o f tbe work·in,g ·peo1•le
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a elass, and tbe eondition of soe/'et.y a :_., a who]e w·oul,d be benefited
by a retln _-tion of the boor- of labor, giving ns better opportt nitieN for
-dneation and for physical and m _nta] 1mprov,eme11t1 W,e claim tllat
the introdltction of i'mp·roved mac-hinery haS, not benefited labor t<J, the
, xtent tba,-t i -_sl1on1d ba-v -•·- benedte - itt It throw - out of e-m:ployment,
m.a ny thonsa.nd ., of people each i·ear · br-ougbout the country, and y·e t
~he hours of labor continue :1,re.1tty u1uch the sam.e a:s, they were, before
tbe in.vention of the,se labor..sav1ng maehines. We think th.at the o:uly
aA

way to, pr,e v,e nt the ·m,o ' t diis astrous, resn.lts f-rom the, overerowdi,ug of

- be Jabor market an<l the oorre ,p onding decrease in the opportunities
of ob'ta~ning a liv-iug would be by th,e reduction of ·t h.e boors, of labo-r,
and ther io,r e "~e earn,e stly pray fo,r ·tb.e ·n.foroem.o ot of the national
eigbt. bour Ia·w :a : t _ thing w.·hich is due to t,he ·w,oTkln,g el388es of the
,r...omn1 unit _, to tJie peo_p le who were i ntere.s't ed and_active in obtaining
the pa-sage of t , e la1\,,, and to the good fa-1th and self~re ,pect of" our
national l~ghd-~tor, . This que tion of itself" is a large one, and d,o not
wish now to extentl its discn_sion,, bnt it will be eas.il - soon that 'lar_
ge
uumbe,rrs of uuen1ploy,e d would be put in t e way o,f obtaining employm,e ot hJ· mean • of the reduction of tb -- honrs of Jabor and that it would.
,gtve the laboring poopl _- great ad-vantages in all their relations · o :o-

.

-~,i,et., .

: y- the CHAIRltA.N :
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,Q,. Wba·t do Jon. think_would be the ,effect upon wages of such a re;;;
duction in the l1oors of labo.r --A. I d,o not nppreb-·- nd that the,redu.e tion
would r,esnlt 11 · auy lleerease in ·wage, ,
Q. D,o yon 'f.hiu 1£ that the amount oi:' labor pe,r formed would be equal
to that w b ich is performed now, ,or IS it your,idea ·t hat, from other causeet
pre'seH · 'Wages tor the sa1ue amount of la'bor would be in,ereased t-A -

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R.ELATIO . S BETWEEN LABOR AND eAPJ.Tili

89

T -· e drs:t part of J,uur ,q uestion wou]d h,a rdly ad.m i,t of ao exaot a.us·w er.•.
J think that in ~-ome oc,cnprat~ous th@ amo 1.nt. of lr-b or perfo,r med. would
not be nuiteriaHy· decrea d by a reduetion of hours ; but as a .·bol,e
ha,.. · no doubt thnt J,.-s~ labor ,,,ou1tl be l)erformed in eigbt houris tban
is now pe1·'fb1·1ned in, ten hon r~, l ~au~ ·~ t It.~ ·m.ach ines that do a certaru
aH1oun't of ,,. . ·tk J•t-1 day ;,1r run ii t a, c ·rt4liu rat · uf SJ eed, and tbe 1.~;ople ·w ho t~nd 'tbe1n ar~ 001npe1ile(l to a.,,plr a certa.i am.onut of labor·
each bour, nud th 1• ·.i tbrc. \\"h ·1-e the u1ac bi11 .~ rJ i . uip,l oyed . · retl10,_
tion of th ~ hon1·i... of hi ho1 '1·tudd natnra.lls reduce the amount of work
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- Q . If' t It · hoH 1·s of labor ·wer re.d ue (1, wli·a t s·h ould you thiu k of the
idtiil of k.~t"'}ling th~ 1n~ttbitlt~1•y act1 ·,c. by ,, orking two sets oi" hantis I
'lt1at ·l·, unld gt,~ e1n1ctloy1nrut fhl' a. htrg,e r number of people and would.
kt t• 11, the ·1uachi nt ·r r 'bus.}~a lon g'.1 ·1.· ·r 1me.-A. Individu aUy I should sup1ios · J.1a that- mi,gb h .. -a solut.i10-n. of 1SO,.m . of the dHliculties, that :m i, .·l it
be , a isetl b·r th _ 01>11011.ents of horter boors of labor
l\l r .. G ·E ,OBGE,lj I tlo not under .ta.nd \'\"'lte.tber -rour -remark s are d ~reoced
""
to the ·. ni:o rc,e1uentof the eight-hou r law·now on.
the statut&.book,,which
a.1)1,11e,. 011JJ· to ·.. ov1c1rnment. eu1ploy.,eL, o,r whet.her yon desire tbe ,en.actmeu ·"' b~- ._·ongr,e ss of a .l aw appli~ 'b le to .a ll labor tbroo,g hoo.t tbe Union.
Th~ ,,~IT'·. '"iSS • .·I:,- ttinarks. a1,plJ to the enforcement of the lawn.O'w
u1> u the statute-book_ I ,. · -many llifflcnlt1e, . in the w ;y o·f the otber
b1w· wbi,c.b son su,gges,t, and I do not know that it woold -be ,d esirable.
Wi;
. -.. . . fi.n··rth-.... ..r · t.h·a.t·"
_t hout
_ · ·d·. ,we·U ing'
_ . lo·uw
. ~ :r_ upon
_ f.b_at
__ p·. o. int-, 1 w.-oui.a
__·.. ·~
~y
'\ lre desire fbe abolition of all CO:U Sp,i mcy laws w:hieh aftect the r:ight of
com biuation among the · . orkiug people for· legitimate:,en.ds.
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Bl 't he CHAIRMAN ..
Q~ l[1--. F oster . ,y ou of course realize th.at i.'t is very difficult to get,
'\\~ages ·unles ·. t'bere is eorre•·ponding pr-oductio- •. ..-ow, machinery can
ork t,,; ut ~-foo , boors a daj: as, ell as eight. boors ors" . hours, and
if a s~ stem of i11dt1stry ·we:re. es:tablished by· vthtch human labor could
be em plo. · ed s11 .. si.: ~- l1ours a da · for each. -et of' bands, witb re'l ays. so
as to work th·: mael1ine.1:,r saj. eighteen hour, a day, m.i gbt n,o t ·t he fae.t
that tbe 1nachiue,~ r was, thu·~ kept i.o operation so much lo·o g,e r·:p rod:uce,
this resul : : tha-t t:he gain upon t.b -·· labor of the machinery ·would g1·· ea
n ·t pr,odu.ction ei.}niv.a lent t.o tbat resulting from 1ibe: ·p resent .: ·m11Joy~
iuen'- o:f both human and in,·tniu1ate. labor- for .a ,s borter period t 8-nppo~e machinery· aurl buman labor now wor'k ten hours, a day eaeb, and
t.h~v b · gin .and · od simultaoeously, and that as a re -ult of sucb arra.ng,eUlt!IJ t ,;ol1 b.a·v~ a joint .JJro<lnctiou t!quiv,a lent to twenty hours; in that
ca'\!\ the maebine.ry bas ·w or -· tl ten hours and bu.m,anit:r ha - worked
ten boors'". Bnt suppose now that instead of thi yon bav;e three. se,1:8
uf band ., SO· th.at 1.~our n1a,c biuery is worked 't wenty-four ·h ours a day,
eo h St,t of hant1s. w~i-~·-iu. ·· ei .~·'ht hours, and each. of course receiving its
,r·a tt esi, but t!H~ m.acbh11e1·y·" w•bich 'fequire . . no ext_ compen.1ation for
~xtr::1 v~o ·k e :c ~p a r ttle 1ddi tioH l in th•e way of repairs be'i ng kept
e.m1:1lo.r eJ during tbe ,vbole p .1·iod, ,voul,d you not hav,e.from. t,he human
.l abor and, that of th . mt;tchh1 ·r,~com biuetl in twen.t~-fonr boars a r.esu t
eq~al to forty-eigb .: hour, ~~ A. ·Yes: taiktng the human labor as the
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unit of' men ure·.me,nt..
Q.. in thitt case Yf 11 ,vould b ., .e three eta of bands to pay·t-A.

les, tiiir.

Q.. 1\.nd. fb·l.t would be equ1~al . •-- · to the wages of thirty houris' ·1abor
nudeJ· tb(!, old teo-hour rstem.!'- A. Yes.,
·
· .
Q. llut the Joi t ~odn . tion ·would 'be equal to forty·- eight boms11
I

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90

:R ELATIONS BE,T WEE,N LABO& AN!l CAPITA:L~

Thns you see by ,your ·reduood hours of bum.a n labor and with no ,dimiuu.~
tion of wages, bot, iu f;1 ct, an increase ot· wagea to th - hnm an labor,. yon
would hiive a net pr.ndnetion wb.ich c-onld. go 11,pon tbe markets ,of rb . .
w,orld., and for ·wh1ch the nul.nu.faeturer oonld. 1·ecei ,.· a •ootnp nsatiou
·w hich . on.Id. enable bin to pny ·t ese v..-.a g . s. and ,a t the sa;me time would
gi.\·e bi:m •·· ,,·tAu a,greate·r profit. than that w.bic·h be now~-i v.-es~ This idea
ifi entirel~,- new to 1u,e., hn J .sur1po e it; is no _.new to yon labor tbinkersli
1 t does ti: . em. to me that bJ the eon, :ion . d .· · mploymeot of the 1nacbiu. ·~.r
for eig·ht~~H or t,w;puty·~fonr .hou.ns, w.ith relaiVS of bu.ma labor., there.
o .t 1gbt- be 1~,nr,~,e,I_ out some solnt.ion of your tro11bles wi'thout an,3r neceasl·1·) for a decrease iu wages, But without iuere,~1· ell 1>mdu0tio,u , or at
lParrt eq ni\-aleut production,, I do not see how t .be In borer i - , to get th.e
satue v.•·age,· t b1at h~, gets uow if th ·. hours of labor are dimiuish.etl.. Do
·r on · -A. -. bat depends UJJou 1¥b ther tbe em1ll-oy1n nt of ca1)i.tal ha .
bee11 un•le1· _be most nd,.'anta.g·eons conditions;, whe_ber th,e re are no
lnore eeonotn ical 1n . des ot~ prodnction. than tbo_.•· now em1,loyed. lu
:i.rfain purstti.ts"' as I ha\.. a Ir,ead.y ~ uggested,. tbe red1 c ion of hours
l\~nuld, I think,. be oompensat .d tor b,y the, ,g reater e.fflcienuy of labor
cor1til.n u,e d on1y eight, hour, a ida;j; but tb .solution. ·w hicb 3~ou suggest,
whde it migb apply in :some ca ··es, would. fail in others, becan_-,. ,b e
percentage of inac'hiu work iu nu,uy· trJd ~ i , so small
Q. Take fuctori,es ;: mi.gh·t it uot a.p1>I_
y tber•e . - - • Y,es, sir ; iu fac tories it m1ght apply under certa,iu cOhdition '" The pla.n. i . I believe,
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already app,l ied iH part by some .man.ufaetnrers in busy times, who run
their m ebinery hJ ·t ·wo sets of hands,, bot they do not reduoo 'the ·bou'["s
c,f labor.. The. bands often work tweJ.v:e hours .at. a stre'tieh..
Q. But don't . · ou understand or be'l ieve that whern a cooce·r is able
to work its ·m acbineT, e,•·,e n .-'i teeu boors a day it Wi y emp)oy and pa:,:
two sets, of b.ands. and. :ret ,ma'ke a !--Teat;.r J)rofi:t rela'ti·v,ely upon i.ts plan
tbau b·v \\,,orkiug botl the ··ac-binery and humaiu labor •Ottly eight hourt4
a ~l..ay t-A. It might. - t woul<l ba.v.e to pay twice, tb,e ·w·ages to hnlllan
labor that it pays, now, but on t.h , other band., it w,o uld - et twloo t'be
w,o k out of its maehinefl, and. it ·w,ould be payin,g for its. aac·hi:oe. . labor
<luring the. ,i xt,ee_n ho1 .rs only · _, .h a·t it pays no,w for eight hon.rs..
Mr.. GE,ORGE~ It w·,o nld beju.s:t like, bavin,g t ·wo, factori,es ,of ,eq_
ual capa.·':ity wor "'·i.n g a-t t-he snm•e tim,e.,
T.h e CH - .& - - N,.. With only on,e-·h ali th.e inves.t ment i plant.
11~-r. G·EORGE Ye·· ,
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Qii If human. labor 'W ere dim1iuisbed o si ·• hours day t · ere ·woul,d he
no clifficulty in rnunh1g a factory tw ·1,,.eo,r e·i_ght-een hours, would th.e re!'A. o, sir.
·Q~ Light,i1n ·u p, a little in _the ~orning a.nd ligbtiug for a l~ttle ·w bil
at nigbt . ould a~~~·m11Iish the whol-e thing,,_ ... ·_ es, sir,i.
By _~T. 'E ,O B6E ~
Qjj. If you. hav,e an.,y further· sngg,e stions tom·· ke as to .remedies for
t-he vils wh.i,eb you have deseri.bed yo11 may proceed · o ,s tate ·-b.em - A "
Vle de, ire al , the abolition of consp,i racy laws Pffl'\"enting legitimate
•~ \0 10 binations ,o f la bor-e'rs!I
Q~ · r,e sucb laws iu e '."·i stenee in. ftllY of the States, ........ . ,, Yes,. sir :
thcrie .a,r e laws whicb ba·ve b . en used to imprison peo11Je who ba,ve con1bind t 0 get lier 11, ]abor unions ..
Q . Witbou.t n,s ing fore• . ·- :A,. With.out us1n_
g force. I beHe\" _ t-ba,t
,s ucb a law exi,sta, in Penn·_ ylvania, and in nearly every s · · te,, under the
•o ld English Common aw, it exists, nnless U, has been. repealed by a.et
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of the legisbtturo. So it ha,. been beld in nearl,y all of tbe States, ~d
a gr.eat many iud·i rlduals in di:tiemnt.pH't-8 of the ooantry ha,-.e been impri.sou~ 'for tb.i~, ~ind o~ '' cons~d~,c y._": ~ ~ am .H!4~lnted __with <?De i.nstauoo 10. my own trade .mn the c1.ty of Ph1ladelph1a1, wh ·r e two pnnters,
b,. reason and &r"u.ment eudea,·,ored to ·ind.uoo anotbe·r to qoi . the emp'ioJ went,,o f·the partJ cootesti~g__,v"th th,~m, and they ·.· _·ere Jm~risoned.
for tb · .actt The ,c ase cau1 e to trial a.nd tbrou··. b 1s0im ·tech.nica11ty they
e :ea-peel any longer irnprisono1eot-.. ,o ne . ,_ f ·t he prou1in: ·u t ~ember.a of
th · t{ui,gl ts of Labor 1n \ . • s,tern , e·nnsylva.nia was arrested.under t. l'is,
]a\,T aud. I belie\"6 obtainetl bait · .· e also ask fo tl,e en.fo,r cement ot"
s.t ri.n g ••l . la, .s a~a.tinst tb employ-me..t of ehi1dre•n under fo.m teen y,ear.: ·
of a,ge in manufactories; belie, .iug that the welfare of our ~ce at last
d.,t.peudt,. u1:,on. it ; thait th , safety of society .a t :l ar.Jre demands th3't th _
ch·ild. be k•1,t at s.c··,ool; th tits little e.ft:orts be riot ·b rought into oom1~·tition with ndolt labor, and. t-hat i ·• ow· welfare is a great a_rgn:meu't in
fa,·or o.f' ke('I)•ing it aw.a y &o,n the hard a-ud long boors of mechanical
ton in our tuctorie.s.
,Q~
.· •·· t her ._ .a ny tmrt·s, of tbe manufootu ring i ndus,tri.e s of' the eon n..
trr,. any dif'hdons, of tlte labo-r, wbioh ·Can. be performed. outside of' the
fa tory; I. m.e a-n performed. with the ,Ram · effleienc· as in tb"e 'factory,
or mu _·tall tbe work be done there to be done properly '!-A. There are
certain d.epart:ments. of J. bor th.at c ·_u be do:ne at hom ;- , notably iu the
cigar~m a'king trad.,e, in ,·a ious departments of straw work, amd ·i.n someother p _·rsuits 'that I tlo not now .recall.. Tbere, •..·re se· eral kinds of
work tba · can be periurm ·d a·t -. om _..
· to some extent without any necessary· iw·pa,irm.e nt of thee· ·cieney -of the labo:r,. · y frie.nd :Mr. Gompers
wUl 1nd,o ubtedly giv·e you an. account of some of the e,,ns attendant
up.on the b0,siness of ma,k ing cigars. _t bome.
Q. D"o you regar,d the enlarg:e ment an.d ext,eusi,o n of that class of work
as beneftcial ·t o ·the.laboring people :~:. . . . . :A . N•o t as a geueml tbing- ·h ardly
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Q.. I do, no·t m,ea.n oi~ar making·, b11t the other kinds ,o f work t~h at can
be tlon,e a't home ·t -A~ I ean.,ooniceiv•e of individual cases where it nlight
resnlt in tempo,r ary b :ne·Gt, but oo ,g eneral princi1,les I do not regar-d it
a ,.. beneicial11
l'I r. GollPE s. l is ·ra, lier· the cont:rar:y.,, as a general rule-..
Tbe WITN .ss. A , , I bav,e oee,,i.pied so much time npo·o the question
of tbe eoola.l ,e ond·i t,iou of our people I do not feel at libert . to d.we1l a length upon ~he mm·· dies, tb.a't mig~.t be applied, bu·t I believe I bav·e
stated the · · -.ief' measures th.at ·w e. think a.re called for at present.. They
ur.- :

1. The establishment of a .~ .atiooal Bureau of Labor .a nd S,t atisti,c s..
2. T he estab H hr:nen t of boa r-ds oC arbitrat-i on wh _rev,e r 1l088ibt@~
t · he entorc m, ut oft e nat1oua1l e,i ght hon·r law..
4.. The abo'l ition of ebild. labor by legi ht -i.on so far as that is possible.
5 The abolition. of '' con pirac~r" laws,, 'lea viug· us 'free to 1ncorpo:rat.e
our soeieti,es und:. r the law. I do not mention.thi · la ·.,t . - a ,d.-i stinct head,
·b at ·w e do, de···ir -· to be permitt d. to legalize our trad,e soei .ties, by incorporating them so that th ·y may have tbe p1ivil.•,g es and res_pon.sibilities of otber ,c o:rpomt e bodies.; have their property under the proteetio u of tbe Jaw, a ud .ha.Ye in gen~ral tbe ,sau1e ri_g hts a _joint stock or
other corporations.
6.. We des·ire also that ,oon.vict, contrac..1; labor be, ,don.e awa.y with so
far .as possible; believi11.g t-hat ·e rinunal . saould no be ,e mployed in
competi· io.n wi,t h men · ho ar,e doing theiir ·oost. to take their part io
society by honest indus·t rJ, who ·11a, e gtven a eon_siderab1e por Io ·. of
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9.

REL
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th ein lite to t.h e ucquirewc:ut of thei.r trades,. and who, as thing

uow
s.ta1Hl, w:e sometim.e s cO'mpeUetl to compete wi't t.he labor of' coo·,~ct~
let out at voutract. Vl , - ret.~o rnize tbe ri:ght of tb - S·t ate to endea,·or
~J It! cool r1 ~u ~ i , J f ·tot- h. · lo~ , of the Jnbor of th~~ class, bu.t w deny·
itM rigb: o t~omijel us to JlaV for th·~_t pn:rpo e to the ext nt t-bat_,.,.l~ .a;re
co1111 ielletl to do n nder the -,re . ~ut ;_-st.em ot" oon, let con tract la bo1·~
Q. I sl.1.00.lll Hke to ha'\"e )·on state Wbltt, \"OU tleem tbe P'? · -'~ibilitle~, of
oo-operat ~0, 1 in ,,~01·k · mong lu,borers n· a mean _ of a meliomtiag the
,cJondition of the luborin g class ,. ~-A. lV,e ,oou~~ide1· that tber · ar ·,·,.· riKreat 11ossib,1 lities in th line of eo-01,eratio11 aim,o ng the working 10~0.
~uni. th•. dus.t1■fbut1ou of 'the Jl•rofit of labor'", ·T here are many diffictd·rie8 to be eucountel t!d . bu l beUe,-e lb p1in(}i1>'Je is. a ound ,one, ~ind,
,,·h n, ~ac-.r ied out. ln the fulll,e st sense of the t~1·m, W'Onld. be au ai1,l in
a1neliorating tl1e e · istio oonditiou,s of o:u1· ·wa_es,~.tern. Tba.'t, it will
,f ~'T r becomt, nn,i v . ·rs·il i '. a., eo11i8urnll:nation tbat W'6 can haroly bo11 . ·f hr ~
but freed,o m to ·~ngage .IJ these enter11ris . ·will be another iof:lueuce in
add itiou to those ·w hich I 'h ·•· \T -.__ su,g,gested to bring about a. bette1· condi · iou of th i u a"S. I be ie\..,e ·i t 1nay 'be made " ucoo, sfaI i u 111aHJ uf 1IIe
trad,e , a utl tll ltt, :so fit. r .. possi bl , it. ·boo Id be .adopted. We. fi ud t l1 e
sa.111:. d:ifficult · that ,;11111 other new ,en · rp.ri' , .-. enconn·ter,. and perla· ]l,s,
greater d ·iffi.cnl tieH i 11 starting sm·: II co~,tJ,pera~i ve oou.e ern e, fr;o ui the
corni)e ,i·_ion ,o f th latger and b ·.tte.1· ,e sbi'blisbed m.aunfactorius~,
,Q~ Do you kuo,w auy ·i n~tauce in w:hich these large manufa.,ctn1 i.ug
co1·1to1~ations extentl to tb~i.r 01,erati·· es ,h e p·r i vile,-~:e of p~b&i■iiug tht~ir
8tock t-A. Yes .; I ha,7·,e an iudtli.d:u al iostaHoe i~ m . _:mind.. _I an1 not
so tliciently ,e.on,rer _ant with th. .· w]iole a.rray of i.ndu ·tries Jn this cou utry
to give auytbin,g Ii ".'M a pro:11 r ,?i, W' of . e whole ease, but.th · 1· .. are
· owe iHdividual instance . wber ·. that has been donet The _- are few,
boweve,r , a- d f~tr be.tw - n I b v. also au in ~tauc. in mv, mind. of a
mauofact,11rer, 111 .- ,ew Jersey who d·ivides, among .h is ope·r a,t i·v,es all the
profits. of bi -, bosine.-ss abot'e a uarta·i n 1Jer ceu·t . , upon. bia ·_pital
Q., I understand . 011 to sa ·, then1 tha, it i -. uo,t the ru] e with th&;e
large manufactnri og corporations, to , xtend to tbe·i r operati ,~es facili ~
ties. for· purchas.ing tbei'r s:t ock , -A~ · :ro, sir; it is not the rule.. A _, to
the .l arge textile. m anufactori.es, I do not know ·t h.at it woo Id be 11-0 · ible. fi r ny opm·a't i v,e to possess stock e.ven ·i f 'b e bad the m.ooey to bo.y
i't, but it .i:s vtu-,· rctre];r tha·t an 011erative cau acquire the mean - to purobase it, even if 11 - d -..~ir@d. and had tb~ opport.nn "ty. , I ,s uppos , bowe·v,er, tb3.t if a man ha<l th ,~. m•03D' _be.could. acquire such s.took,, ev · .n i:t
the.re w·a . objection on t'lte par· of" t,be. cor1:1orat~i,ou,. beoiinse. tJ11e ohjee,tion could be ·Yade<l by using it 1>ro y. or some 1SUitb d.e,"'i. -. •
Q • .Do :.. ot1 'kuo\\~"he ·. he tbese 1nanul'acture~s in,. 100 tb ~i emplo, ea
to ma i..e 11nrehati-...~ uf ~.tnck. or ,.,timulate them to do ,s o ,-A., No, iu ..
stanc.e of ·t ha t k i n,l ha . ~-,··e r·,com n:nder mJ observation
I v.·ou ltl li.k · · u g ·.Ye a. f ... tigur, --s ,s 1owing tb oun1 her of l.)e~sone
em·ployeu in the mauufaetu1iu,g establi hm n, s of this, conntr -~. Tbese
figures. I find iu the · ·T ·w ,·ork .Her·ald,, ·t ak,. n from the een ns of 1.K80,
· ·he census of 1870, hiho,1r~ the number, of n1anufacturing establish00-"
0 · ,.') 1;· --- t .,· , 111
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-01.·"t · ._
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_ e· num.1..ter
253,3 0, an ineretai . of l,192~ T·be. c n -. u . of 1870 s.bovn1 the nu·m be1 of
hands iuplo,y·e d to ba,:-e beeu 2,053,&J6; in l880 the nnuiber ,~as
:2, 7.3 8,950, au incr,e as _ of' 684,,'9 ~ The awou1it of capital mployed iu
mano.t'actures inerea.sed from .· 2.,118,20S., 769 i • 1870.,, to 12,7'00,512.,000,
iu 18801 , b · .au1ount of "".a,g es ine:r,e a:-~ ed frou1 $175,.584,348, in. 1810, to
i947,.9I'0,9'i,4, in 1880.,
be cost ,o f ma.ter.ia] in,ereased Rom t2,,488,,4t7''.i,1

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B,E:LAT.IONS B,E TW.E EN LABO,R A.HD CAPITAL.

C~, in. 187'0,, to. ea,;,,.~324,3,9,. in t880 :;, and the .a.nnnaJ .P rotluct in 1880
Wffr8 0\1@r . o,369,,0007000.
At the conelasion of :Mr. Foster's e .· ·am1n.a.tioo the m,e mbe,r s of the
(•ommlttee, a_u d the witnies:· ea present, hel,d a brie conference with re;,
~~:r·d to the practicahtlit. · of ,o ontinning tbe inv·esti.gation during th•
Re sioo. o:f Coogre~ '., and came to the, oon.clusioo that, o .i n,g . 'to · he
J,o ng da"ly s . ssion ·: o,f. tbe Senat and the, .· . bso•rbin ·, nature of the :p obJi · . bnsines . ', the iu .es,t1gatioo could not be, oon.t iou6ll ·i'thoot great i c0nveuience ho·· ro the members, of th.e committee and to the, witne·-se·~, an.d that therefore it ha<l better be postponed 'tlntil soiae ·~inie
afr,e r · he final adjonrnmentf The oomm.ittoo. :b. n adjourned,. subject to
,+-h e, ·C· .1·1Ji1 ·o~
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• EW · · oaK, August 6, 1883.

Before the adjournment of' the Senate on the 4th of :March la.s·t tbe
,co1nmittee arranged to resume th ,· ~'Dves.tigation ait . · a:nchester, N. H ~,
on or aibout 'the '!5th, d · · y of .·-· ogo t, bnt 'the strike of the telegrap'h
operato.n , and others in the @mp, oy· ,o f the W -_ stern Union · ··o d. otber
telegraip b companies caused a cbang;e of p·r ogmmme, and. aooording]y
the eonlm.i ttee met in tbe .p ost,.,offi.ce b nilding· in th · city i0f New York
,on the •6 th of . ·.· ngnst.. Present, Senator Blair, the chairman, and Sena. ors George, P1\gh, and Ca.D.
Tbe CHAJBHAN~ Ar.rangem.e nts had 'been :made b,y the oommittee to
eommi nee ft~~y the fo·-. mal taklD,: . of testimony on t-be p,a rt of the teleg-•
rapbers.wit'b rieferenoo to . be existing strike, its canses, &e . ,. bot I have
reooiv,e d a. •o ommunicatiou this morning from Mr. Campbell, their chief
@!Xec·n.tive officer,,. saving that it i . impossUile for h.i'm .a nd th.e other gentlemen concerned to attend for that purpose at this time, by reason of
t.'h e ,e x ension of the , trike &od the great pressure of duties upon the,JD;
so that th.ere most be a l1ttl.e delay, or ,e1lse tbey ., ~ll be pot to ,g reat ioeon,venience personally. The comm·1.t tee is al .o a,nx1ous. to take.the tea·t imony of Dr.. Green1, the. president o.f the W,e stem Union 'T el,e graph
( lompa ·,y, who is now· o his return from ·urope, and eauno-t be-present
for a.boot two , .·eek ~ ·w e haY-e t·h erefore deoided to postpone the formal
ta,k ing of testimony for one week, and shall at ·~hat ti'me oommence t 'be
bea-r ing· Sit this place.
leanwhHe the co.mm:·'ttee ~11 pursu,e ita i~ ..
quirie~ , in other directions.and in a p·r ivate manner~ The oommittee will
exp · ct witnesses who were t.o .ba.v,e beeu present· t'his, morning to .a ttend
one w·e -..k from this time, ,a s, the takiogof testi ·ouy will then oommen.ee
without fail
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Yo.e x,, Augu.·1t 7, l ,883~
The.comn1ittoo, having determined to visit aod.inspect pe-rsonally'some
of tb.e tenements, inhabited by tbe wor,k1.og classes, in certain. soot,i.onia
of tbe e.ity·, obtained the rs ervices as a guide of ,a ,g entleman oonneet~d
with the d.etecti:v·e. bran.c h of the polloo department. In the eourse of .a
preliminary cousulta ,ion - tth ·t his gentleman he mad.e a general state'me.nt. of which t·b e fo,Jlowi:'ug ·s a 'b rief summary.:
Tbt~ set ·lement ,of this city began at, 'the so1l'tkeru end ,o f th~, ,ialan.d ,.
arooud the. B _·tkHry, arul. in ·t h.e terr.itor:y now .i ncluded in the .first and
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.R ELAT'l ()~S ,B E,TWEE.:.~ LA.BOB .A ND CAPITAL..

The majurit,y of tbe hou,sea in that. 1-egion are three
s.torie·. bi,gh and bnilt ,o.f brick.. Most 0.f them have. been .a ltered into,
busi:oess hon · ··:,, but tbere ar stiH peop1e wbo continue to live d.own
t O\\' D on account of old. a -.soc,iat.ion ., and you will someti;mes h~aF _L~
man sa.:r, wit.h a, e ·rt~nn amount ,o,f i:ni:d:e; u I :. m. a first... wartler ye.t " Of
eourse hou.·. es do•\,-11 ther :, built sixty or seventy years.ago, a·r e no't su..!b
house · as ar . bei••~ bnilt uo~ If you ge. ··1e · e, --_ wa.nt o see t.he real
tenement 'house lite of' thi~. city,, about, a' g,ood a place as rou -~ :n ,g o
for tlnl' 1nu·1•ose is. along eit.her the east or the we -_ t ~-ide. I will sbow
J'OD t h:rough t be .tourt h ward and through. the portion of the -c it)'"' _-·bere
t b~ I aliaus .a.r e tu b•.:· ibund, .s ·O· tb~:1t v,o u 10.ay g· t an i-dea of h.o,w tbey
Ii v,,l., 1 ,vi n .al s,o gi '" yon a ch a nee to see life 1u .B a· ter streeti That
,,.·u probably i!n' ere~.:. ·on, but it will barlll,¥ · '" ve you a fair idea oft n ..
em1e.n t-bou · e lit'e 1n . .: -,e . -··ork, or of thew~-y the working people Jive,.
,ecause tba · is a- ~tre t th.at is oooupi.e d aluio.-t ,enti.rel_y b_y Jew . .a.nd
o,tlier.s iu c·be second-l,a.ud bo,sine·R.·.,.n ostl,- d, alers in second-hand cl.0thi ng.. Baxter s i~ee:t i. ahnos,t whollJ~tl.e\-o'ted to that class of peopl•e ,
and they hve ther-ie hudd],ed n,p togeth r l 1ke sheep., When yon see
that ~treet you se -, the best .s a-·· ·p ie of tbat kind of .life in this ci
In
the te,neu1.· ut re_g ion, where I rn-,pose. to ta , e you.,. yon. will find blocks
,of bou.Je~ which are all tenem.ents, ·_ upposed to contai · aU the m,od,erH.
in1pro ,em, nt., and having f101u two to fonr .fa.m ines on a floor.
)Ir~ GEORGE. Ho·w many room,s a.re there on a floor.,, or bo:w· many
roflms do·_'. , each of' t.11 ._· fan1 i lies -occnpy I
The Jl.E1'l.EOTJ1V1t . Tb number var1e iu di:ffl rent cases, from three to
ii.,Te ~oo·ms generaHy..
!)I.r. GEORGE,. Is tbere ,•J. fu1ni ly in. ea.eh roo1n t
Tbe DEi-:r E~TIVE .
no~ But I will tak,e Jon ~nto ·t he houses, so,that
,~ou can s .· for yoursel t:
)Ir. (TEO , -G ... l ~an J,on get us into tbe hou.ses t·
The DETECTIVE. I will ngine ·r that. I will find means to let you .s ee
a-s, mnc b of · b.a.-t kind of life a . on ,vish..
s to the portion of' the city
tha _ -Ji ·, Italiaus i llhabit, the}" hay ,- :i almost wholly to t· e,mselves,
·O ther peopJ,e do not w.a.nt to 11.v:e there, because ·i t is ex.-tre'Diely di.r ty.
· :he ·talians have ,s elected a .· tion of the city w·hi-e h is quite old, and
.J·ou ·. ill JJrobably ·w aut to .,,.imt that neigbbo,r ,hood., bot if · ·om w·i,sh to
-e_- t e dw .lliug~ of the workh;1g cla es, the people who rea-Uy· li.T'e by
labor., then yon must go .into the, regular 'tenem ·nt,.-bonse district.. The
work iug people li\" · in t:bose t,e11em.e·n t-honses .i n rooms for which they
have to Jlla:r fron1 $10 to $25, to ,835, ,o r e1en 0 a mont·b.
Tbe commit.tee determined to s t, out at -onee on ·.- hi .· tour .of i.n s:peetion,., and. ·b,: the .a d·\"ic · of the deteeti v : , in order to .a ttrac ·_ · les ~ atte·otion,. decid,e d no·· to take car,iages, bu _ to go, -on foo,t.,
Messrs~ Orm ·. ·b r and Gibson, re11,resenting ffi pectiv,e ly the ~• e .. York
Sun and f ,· Ne·,v York Tribune, accompanied t'beu1.
Tll _.. ftrat ho .1 se 'l i ·ited w . · a cheai,,lod.«in.,g bouseon Chatha. m Squa:re,
,,-.I.th. a · igu offer1u.g lotl,gings for 15 eent . a. night-. T'he, boose was
c1uite arge, c~u1taiuing luO rooms,. so ,ea.Ue,L The '-t. room·., " ·.· ere ·ery
_·.,m an, about 6 feet loug by 4 or 5 fe . t witle.. The small ,oot-beds a1,1,earetl to ·b e cl •.·_ o l .ud co1nt"ortable, -~ind in eweb room tbere ·wa . a
little •closet. · be .h.ou e ·u~a ·· p1·0,,. kled . ith a fire-escape and wt b ·. ·.a ter
JU tbe haH~ and. wa· u.nder the charge of a superintendent.. In ·t he
office or read··ug-00010 h~lo\r there . as a placard. prohibiting ,smoking.
Jn ,c ouvessa ion with Senat.or Blair, the chairman, the proprietor of tile
bouse stated tba althou,g h m,o . t of his patrons were cas.ual lodgs1~,
the fourth ·wards.

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y,e t he ~a<l a class of l.o dgen, mechanics and otben, who ,s taid in 'the
booae all the .J 'ear round,
The CBc61RMA1t.. What do the people wh-o lodge with you bere ,do for
a living _
The.LANDLOR,D . Oh, l can·~ tell yon ·t ha ·. So·me of th.em. are peddl rs
and ,s ome of t'hem are brick·layersi,,carpenters, and other meeban:ics, bllt
there are pJent,y of them tba.t I ,c ould not tell you what they d.o.
)fr GEoRG'E,;; D,o any oommon laborers lodge he·r e·t
Tbe LA . DLO·RD~. · o; I think ·not..
The DE ~ c:·T IVE~ }lo ; they generally live up town ..
. he CHAI~MAN, This, I nnd.erstan.cl, i · 100,g i.oghoose merely; you
give 110 meals Ii.e re t
The L 'dDLORD~ ·· :o meals; O·Dly 'lodging..
T · e Co:A IRMAN~ How :many· men, do you ,em.p ,l oy to loo,~ after this
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bou e ·
T e LANDL10RD. '.l'hree men and a ·w oman..

·be CHAI.KMAN~ How· m· ns roo. ms ha ·e yon!
Tb LANDLORD.. One hnndrnd ,a.n d fifty ..six.
T.he UH ··IK , , · x. When a. rn· n is, taken siek here what do you do

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· he LA? DLORD, Summon .a n ambulance. and ,s end him to the hos+
pital..
The CHAIRMAN. D ·o ,a ny people, who are employed i11 sti0res as elerks
lodge wi'th :von here I
The .LANDLORD!'• . o clerks.. ··.·e ha·.. e moohani,cs and atch·meo, a.nd
also a number of rag-.pickers,, who work at night a·nd sleep i.n the ,daytime.
·
The CHAIRMAN'. I suppose there, a.11e a good many·such houses as this
in ~
¥ew
~t--- t·
- Yo··. rk
- C.
. -Jly
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The L .AND·LORD., ,Q:b.,, yes.
The ,C u· ·.re AN.. Do any married peopl,e live here,t
T.be LANDLORD. No.
The OHAIR.lUJ:i .- - ave you bath rooms in the house t
The .LA.mJLORD~ · O~
The, DE1E,O TIVE.. These lodgin.. ,' -houses ar,e. a.U under tbe ,s ttpervision
of the board or··h ealth, and the offleers ,go around onoo a w,e ek and io . .
apect the houses and see tbat they· a~ . ept cleae aud that there is
plenty of ·w ater for washing,, and so on~
. T~~ LilDLO&D. The people can get a bafh outside, ·i f the_,. W'.a nt it,
for 16 cents.
The De t place visited was a O,b iaese groceJiy on Mott ·- treet, The
ch •irman beg.a n a oooien;atioll with tbe propri,e to.r,, who was at first
~isposed to ta;lk,. but sudde11ly becaim,e r-etieent wheu he noticed that
the stenograpb . r of tb commit.too was. about to take note ,o f .h is mmark ·. Ho ·ev·,er, in. :r-e·p ly to the ehai:r mau'·s ques.ti.ons b.e stated th.at
b.e liked Ji ,el\Elork 'Very 'Well T.he oh.a.irroan • .. ked .h im whether m.a,n)r
of_h.is countrymen were :oo,w ,_ oming to -, ew York, to ·w hich he repli,e d,
~,, Some oome, some g.o; Just sam.e as stea,m,.,cari" Th .· cbairman. &sked.
him w·bether :he in.tended to~ tay in. New York.. He answered,."·' Ca.o.'·t
t .U-tlob t kno·w-ca-n t tell.'~
·
Next the co:mmittoo walked 1..l1rou.g h a, portion of Mnlb ,.rry street,
where tbe ItaJian were v .~ry numen.1us.
,em.bera of the eomnJJi'ttee
e pressed surpri _: a ,seeing · o man men idle in the mi,d dte of' the
da _, but t'b e detectiv · acoonnted for it by stating that th.e y were mostly
rag-pickers,, w.h o worked at nigb , and rested dJuring tb.e., day ..
Pas_<ing along -.a,,.·a rtl stre.e·t the oommittee stopped &'t a butcber's
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96

BEL TIO: _rS BETWE'E N LABOB .A ·_ D

CAP·IT.AL.

sbop and in :p- ct -d th ;- m,e at ,offered for ·_ ate, wbi.ch a.ppeared to ·oo of
good. UH.Uty, a (), "'38, ~old a;t the following prices : Roun d B,t eak, _- 8 oen·t s
a pound.; Jlorter~·bon.s e ,steak,, from.· 3 t-o 25_e nt -a pound ,; Ia·wb, 14 cent ·
a pound , ,~a]. t1g ., 14 cents a pan, d. The woma ·. ·w ho .attended the
shop - ta ed that they soJd their 1nea,t , ometime . i.n ,,.ery sma]J qoanti,.
·t i .· s, l or 2 t~nts'' w·o- t for in,· taoee., anif1 their gre ·. n g.rooe ies in th.e
s,ame .-. ay, _some of her custom -rs·buyi1u.g, tl .· · , .2 cents" worth ,o f meat
a,n d ouo onion .
In tb.e co rse of the. ,va]k • h .ougb this a d adJac .ut s.t reets the detect:i v,. callE'.'d attention to th • fa.e t th at - his. q uar · _·r··was inhabited, as he
sai1I,. bi ~, Jewsjj, ,· ·entil , I1ish., .Ameri,eans, a ,d Germans, all living iu
peace "·ith each other.'"
In th.is ward.t th · six· b, the f!-Ommi :tee vwi ted a pobl ic cbool~buil.ding.
It bt'In,g acatiorl tiw , th - s .hool was, not i~ operation, but the janitor
,e . ducted rhe co.mm~ttee hroottb he building a d answered int·elli
gently the qu~s ion, that were pu·t to bi~, . H,e s:tated tha:t ·~be school
h,o urs were from 9 ·t o 2 ·Dd fro1111 to 3, with . ha]f hour for rece_- ~-..
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in the .forenoon.. ', : ,e a ,e.__-_we att -ndanee he ; a.i.d ,, 8 about 550. Tb
bn1ld iug was,three -tories high, t.be first .ftoor beiD g Used for pla · -'lVOfflSr
and t he .s econd aDd third floors as class rooms The seat -, for the ch.ii·-·
d .ren ·. . ere · -. ery . :omfort"' b]e, and th · edneat..ional : p,11li·_nee ,rery full.
and c.omplet,e , including a. piano. The j i. nit,o r st -•_led tba;t the books
were· k.e1,t io the '. ,chool, being· fnrn·i sbed at th · ex.pen e. of the cit,y a:o.d
J.ent to the pupils. Be -·tated al.so that t be·r e were ·t en 1ad.y teachehl - mp.l.o,-ed in the school, that no corporal pun1 hm nt wa allowed, bu
that w - e the ,c hildren iurfri.nged 'th - rul · .- they were punished bJ bein ·
·k ept in after scb.uo·1 bonr ...
The· ORA.IR - : . (· 10 t'b janltor.)r O·f what n tionalitiea are the par.
en · of' t,he eb~ld.r . u w·h o .~_-tt·.od sebool heret
Tl1:e ,JA.NITO,R~ Tbey are of ne rlr ·U nati,ooalitie&"'
The _-_ HAIRMA.c .. From. )-o-_.r ob t~rva,t ion ofthe c'b.ildren of tJare.D'tS of
ditfe,ri nt, 111a ionalities, lri -h., French, , talian_1 •G,ermans,, J ,ews, an~
other classe ·. of fo. eig •· r ·,, whieh do 3~00 think are the bri.ghtes,t chil~
4ren a·s ai ,c lass .
Tbe JA_:JTOR~ ·we hai~e got - ·,o fly Jewi h children here. They are
about the· hri.g htest I know of.. There are ver~~ few ._· erm ._ n.s aud no
ltali .·ns in ·th.is scboot. 111 · r ~t are lrirs h or - meri _. ~ n born. W,e,have
had ooe or ·,\~o ,·"l1ine-e 'hertl;,, and I belie ·e 't,lley go - _lon.g very welt
The CHAIRMA.• • Do yon fiul :-ny p-reJudiee manife·. ted among the
childf H of diffl r, ut e la- se~,or uatioualiti•e · aga ~n -·t each otber , do the
•d ivide iuto c; lnsses u1 . h , - ·~bools
Th~ J · i -- oR _._ . Ot nr,·have two o:r thr •:i. colo ed children"' At first it
see·med a littl odd, bt1·t HO ·, all thre ·c hildren play tog th.er without an,y
·•WU
-:---ub1
____ 6
The ·1 u:A.1R N,. .· ow do tho~ colored children g-et along I
'rb,e ,JA.~ I .:on. They~ t a.lon.• , i a t.be.1r boo•k s v·e ry· wel1,.1 think. But
they ba,"e not heeu . re ,~tn ..;~ long. The cht'ldr-en generally ag.l'le@ ver"'
well indeed. T'b . ,J ,t!:\\TS • d a nc , li"f" .r apidl · ; t ' - :y t great bk.iug
to dra\\"'iug ,Hu.I tlae,y at· _ l'"·<~r Jood readers and v - _·. .flood in -arithn1etic .
The OHAlfl.)IAN .. J-.a,ae rou · ao.y Fr ocb children be· I
Tb . A lTOR. e1 "'. few.
Thie ,C ,HAIRJIA.N .. H:~\"'e - on m. n:r Altlerioan children-I mean o,f th.e
ohl DI eriCillU 't,,tO ·. k
~be ~JANIT·O R. I don't believ there • r,e a v of them.
· . • -, h
- ~··onr
- oa.me
--· -· - ·,
...
Th t- l. '..!i. · lit --·-A..
;•c_at_·1s
Tile J.ANrroR .James Hart.
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•

The CHAIR ' - · ·N· Where ·were .'l/Ofl born.
- J. NITOR. I 11 as bu
. .. ,ew York , of_I r1- h, par •D t-_g,.
Tbe
. , m 1n
In the cours : of the conversat~on it ·, a.s s,it ated by tile r-epresenta..
ti, e of the New Y'o rk Tribune wh.o accompanied the, com·mittee that
in som.,e of th~ wafd~ of New York th re w,ere a~, many as 2,,,000 children
who could not attend schooJ because of the want of aschooJ aooom·m odati'On. This g,e ntlt mau stated that the board of education had 'b een ·~ in g steadily for the last few ·.· ·e a,- to rem dy this ,e'\" H b.: erecting more
:school buildin.g,s, ·b ut that nev,ertheless lmJ,t yea·r the·re were ·m ore ·t h.a n.
10,000 ehildr,e n.·w·.h o could not ·oo accommodated in the public schools,of
the city ..
The committee -visited next a si - tor-y tenement-house in I ot.t street.,
whi·c b pre · ented a ve·r y g·Ioomy au•d aneomrortable appearance.;, but. waa
well IlOO .·. ".d ed with. fire-escai>eis., a.s,r -quired by Jaw., One of the tenant.a,
in 'feply to ,questions b · the ehtnrman,, stnt,ecl _that th, · buildiug· ·w as 00cupied mainl~ by Irib anti Je.·wisb fa:m:iHetl Shewas,ber1.i.lfa n.a'ti.ve ·o f
Jr -Jand, bad 'b een in thi·, country ·. fr euteen_years, and '_V~ 'lb :. motlier of
nin:e.,cbild.r en,_born in NEr . York~ n ·e r buRband, sbe ·_ .id, was a labomT,
gettiDg from t2 . 25 to i2'J i0 a day _ His busi.ne .· s.was tearing·down housee,
and sometimes helping ·masons in erecting:, otbers. The detectiv:e. ex.,
plained t ·b at th.is busine ·'S of tearing ,down. houses was oue which reqmdred a certain amount of S.kiU, __ nd that a man . ho w·a s . xpert at it
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w·o nld ·no't rank exactly as a oo- moo "' laborer.·"
ext the oomm:i ttee visited .a lO~eent lodging-house on ' e t.er street,
10 c.nt~ being t:be regular charge for .a night's lod.gi,ng, thou :b some
flf the beds 'b rougbi a , bigh .as, 15 eents a ·n ight., Tbe lodgin.g m
rOOtn
in tb1s 'house was sim1>l..-c a large dormitory, with oots t"aiDged alon.,g
at certain di'-tan.ces apart. Tbere w·e re uo partltion: , between i be bedri
The washing faei.l it1es were out in the. hall. The hoospi '·. · ·em.e d clean,
and fhe aooomr · odations turnisbed appeared to be v.· rs good for the
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p,.ri,e ~ charged~
Fr-o m here the ,o om·m ittee went · .P tow·n. to ·isi't a te·nement-bou· ·eon
Second av·eoue near Ei.gh'tieth street.. Tb1_: . was a modern fou.r..story build:iug . the. ·r ooms on tbe ground 'ft,our being ·11sed as stor· · . The detective
s,tated that this, and most of the hoRS-es of the ame kind were ooc.~pied
bv the laboring·clas, e , m.en whose ·work :mig·b t be a.n~wb,ere i: · the city ;
from the .B attery to th : ··:xtrem•e 11p1~r ,eiid1 ancl explained that men
·w hose emplo:rment was. re·g ular and at one JJ laoo ,g enerally contrived to
ge.·· apartments a.s near their work as. po-·. ibl,e , so tbat ·t hey eoul.d go
bome to ,f linuer, w·hile ·hos , who:se. \lork was i.rr -,gnla,r a,n tl in diife,r ent
localities, n ~oally sel .· ctetl. their apartn1ent with refe:reuc,e to c'lleapness,
as they tra,eletl to and from tlieir "~or'k by the ea.r s and generally ear:r ied th ir ilinuers w1 · h them.
Another lar1,te te·n . m,ent~hon~e. ·. as vi -. ited. in the . . ame nei,gbbo:r;o,
:hood~ Eaeh ,s et of a1J1artm.. nts. wa ··, fo or iooiu_. dee1t1 an.tl ou each :d oor
. ' . w. .re. t~wo
. ' tse- t s,,
. \\ 1t·· h·. a.~· ba.I 1- sepa.r.
. - i:iil r·· iug t. 'b. ew.
' . 1nI one
.
:t· o
·t,. h ese
.. ~
th ere
~ ....
apartments whi ·h 'the •c ommittee inspee'tetl. i.n the ~eeo:nd :s.toi-y,, th . fruut
1O0m was n :ed as a tJarlor, thettaF room a. ·a ki'tcb.e n and • lining-room, and
those interv~·n.iu~ a.s be€l-room! ~ The. ~parlor" w.as,about 16 x l:..', quite
,~011llbrtabl · 'farni---·bed., and sdorn,ed.. with ·•ome thirty ebeap picto·res,.
U1clt1tling sel"'eral of' ( - r-eHgi,o us ,c haracter.. The committee in- , cted
the sauitan.. aJTang ··m ·nts a .. fa:r a .· was ·p racticable nnd,e r the ,ciooum
stances, ·nd the clete.ctive expla·i ned that toe board . if h.e olth exercised.
a ,Ti.f lilaut upervision oYer all such matt ra in tenement-house~ .· 11d
1.odgiu g ~hon es., A co,nv,. · · ation took place betw ·.- ~ u ·t he c hai.rma·o ,a nd
tile wife of the tenaut, in 1>art. a.s follows :
7 0--(5 LA.W)
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98

RELJ..T1'0NS, BETWEEN LA.BOB AND CAPITAL.

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Tbe,,C11A.mMA_ .,
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yes.

YDo do your own eook,iug,

I sn_ppose !-Amswer, o·h,

Q.. How much re- t do yon Ji2Y for tbese .a partments 1-A. We pay
814 a month for these four rooans.
Q., Wha, i,, _ yonr husbnnd·'s bug,ine - R,, an,J w·b at, , ages does,beget f........
A.. H , is a stone..ct1tter, and be ,~etR. $, acla.y wb n b -·. is emplo3 ed.,, bnt
be i:s, not employetl a]l the time. · e ,c uts bro· :o ~sto.ne altogether. Q. U.o,w olti i -~b,e t-A. Forty-three.
Qm .Is be an

·_ merican. 1- ~

'e hi Am.eri.e an born, o·f Irish parents,
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·

Q. How maDy·children ·11a ve you !-A. w ·e bay·e had seven. We lost
tile fir ·t; tbe ot:ber,s ~ r ·_· ali,~.
Q. Are t.'hey ·heal J1y ! -..l. They a~.
Q. Have vou liY{"d in tJi,r ;, · · sam,e apartm,e nts all the 'tim -., ,y on haive
'Jived in Ne -Yor.. ! - .--- .. 011,, no; oar ftrs,'t child died when · -e lived on
t

N ·i nth a,v,enue .
,Q,. Do ·you fintl this lo . ation h ealth1:y f-A .. Ve:r:y ·h ealthy, indeed.
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, Q:. You are ,ca.tholi.cN, I _~udge., from

some of ,your ·p ictur,e,s T~A.

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IIr. GEORGE. A.re, tbe rents for tile apartm,e nts in this building fbe
sa~e on tbe di'ffer ut -doors, -A. No; they ar cheaper as you go up..
Q,. Do yonr older cbHdreu ~o to school --A. Yes, sir..
Q~ How many months of chool are t 1 ·r e. here, A This year there
is .a · aca·ti.on of twelve -_ eeks.. A'l l ·t b ~ res · of the time there is school.,
Q. What tlo _-s it cost ,Yon to ).iy,e T'- A. It take,.· pretty mnieb all. my
hus.'b and ·makes 'fo,r us t . Ii, : ; ~ · can' t · al"e mu.ch.
Q~ if your bu~ band b.acl wo1 k all the tim,e yolt would, be ab e to sa1 8
sometbin_g ,, ·w·,o ultl you not f-A~ '. e , I t:bi:o k w-e woul,l, bu~ io. wint, -r.·
t·he wo·r k ·is pretty· dolt If' .h . bad. regn.lar wor ., we. mi,g ht be able to
UVe 1
S 0mething..
T C-·e ,CHAIRMAN~ -.· ,ou .manag,e to live and be tolerabl · happy in, tbis
world, though . - -A. Yes, sir; we ai-e quite 'h app,y!!
Qt Are, the other peo1ile ·wbo Ih.a,"'e a1nii·tm.e'J1ts.,in thi bo1lflin.g la,bo,rin_g peo-ple too .-A" -There, is a fan1Uy ,·hat li,., e ·, over n.s, and the m.an
work,s t-. the Croton water d,f part.m.eot.. I thin.k be gets i2 a ,d ay.
They are paid for •. nndays there.. Theo, on the otl!er tnd·e a park poli.~,e..
man li,r , . I t iink h i gets ~o b.llhn_
g s,or $2.40 a day,. There are, eight
families al to_g~ t her in ·t bis t ·. nem. nt, with the stores,. There i · uob0<l.y
h.aving general el arge of tbe house. Tb,e tenauts up here do all the
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cleaning exeept ·_ lie lower halt.
Q Do von ha, .- a1 y help in your bous keepin,g, or ,d o _
yon do it all.
you1· ·I f -A. I tlo it aJl n1 "~ If, wifh the· e -,c epio·n of washing, since
buJ, last mby came..
_
Q~ A , e.your]1av , n t -Jf\'. ing .-. - .A . Xo., ir ; tbey died i.n Alba.o _y Thil t
i.s where I was ·borp.. I ~ni li,;-iug here in N,. w Yor going on 19 yeard,.
Q., I ~oo yon h~ti~e - greu .• 1nHny Ilicture , and beautiful little ,ornaments in yn~nr parlor; yon hn\~e fnroi~hetl it yourself, I snppose f-A.
Oh, ye ·, sir , It was much 11ieer than if l' . but_vrhere you ·b ave a Jot of
ohildr@n r ·mpin_g .i n an<l out yon eanno·; k•-ep things, neat. . ' w.a nt so1ue
t11iog1s, and h.ope to get them after a \t l.1 He.
Qt Yon.ar,e fontl of. J.lictnres antl paintings, - take it ·-A Yes, sir; I
woultl like to g'et suc'h t'hiu,p;.: j I coiiht
The eon1mlttee uext visit,t~d "lnd iusp cted. a set of apartment.s ·i n a fourstorv tenem,e nt-bon~e ot" tht! bette-r ., Jr · on iS~eoud a, en 1e. The•front
of t, iEI house w.,1_ of bro,vn-,st~n f, aud the apartments seem -d qui.te
comfor 1ble_ T.hey \Y Pre sn1.11Lie~1 ri: b ,vater and gas, ea.eh tenant ba·v;o
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ing a -s eparate gas-meter~ There 'fl~er-e

tationary t:ubs, a bath-r-0om,. ancl

an.elevator for provisions and. -fu~L ·, · e famil:r ·had just m.oT"ed 1u.~. T'be
·wife said that. her husband was no I a mecbani,c but. an. exp·r essman, w·h o
worked do9;~:n town'' fur tb.e citJ'. . ' Tb_· familly consisted o:f a baby and
four larbrer child1·en.. The woma:n sta tt:d tb at the~r bad bef.-in o oable to
save an3·tbin.g on a•ecoon . of .iekn --ss in th :.- fl rnd:r
- ext the cumm,i ttee ,dsited a ·' flat ' ·1100··~, \\·biel1 wc11s re·a]J~r only a. s11.perio.r kind of tell.t ment -bous. . J. t was oue of a large row of :s uch house@,
bnilt .s o as top~ s nt. a gent·r al RJJ-pea1·a11ee ~-imil.irr to the rows of brow·n ■ton,e priTate, dwellin.g s on n1auy of ·tJJ-- st'reetzs. of New ·-··o:,k. The detec.t ive tated that th.e e bouseis ibr tbe ·m ost pa -t were ooenpi:ed by· th fam·ilie·•- of workiJJgmen of the ·b ett,e r class ·who cared som.,e tbiDg a·boot
appearanc _s, .an.d W·_:re ,,1.lliug· to JJay son1e" . t 'b ighe,r rent :fo.r the sake
of g,e tti'ag into a be,t ter neig:bborhood.. The hou -e visited l1ad ev.i dently
been built: receutl3·, and had se\"'eral :n10t1ern con, euie·nees and ap1,Ii,.a.nces for b _alth and co,m fort. The·r e was a 'batb~room; a v,en·tilatiug
shaft ran up to and through. the roo.f~ and. there was an arrangement i .
the ki chen by wb'ioh the ashe,s <.'Otdd be dumped :i.nto the cellar.. Tbe
apartments were al o furnished! with ·h ot and cold water, stationary tube. ,
and a refi·igera'to1~ 'T he r·e- twas i30 a month. Tbe teoan-t stat d 'that
tbe r -nt of tlie floor abo,..e was 135, th.e .rooms 'b eing :larger., She ttaid
·h.e.r husband was'' •in. tbe w~ne bnsines , down to,wn.,"
'Th~ deteeti .·e ca.lied. the attruttou o-f· the memb ·rs. of the com·m ittee
to w·b at h,e called a ,.,, double--dooker.," a tenement-bou _e ,s ix o,r eevf!1t
18tori.e s hi _·- h., aceo,mmod ·.ting, be _aid, four familiies on e•ach .d oor.
Next the commi.ttee Ti~ited some ne ., tenements,'lately erected -o n Se·'\~-enty~-ft.rst s:treet by the '" lmp,r o·\""ed D·w~lli ng; , --ssoci.ation..'"l This 1s an
associatioll comp-0sed.of w,e al by 1adie.s and gen.tlemen who take an inter*
est in tbe improvem.e nt of the dweUingis of the wo,r king classes in .N ew
y ·o rk, ,a nd who ha, e had t:bese houses pla'Oned and bnilt with a - ."ew of
1atety,. eomfort, and econon •Y•· Tlle apartments,a~e ·r euted at certain fixed
rates, said to lm abont 10 per cent. below the reu.ts ,cb.a rged fbr inferi.o,r
acec..mmoda,t_i.o'J~s i:u the ordina;ry te. -emeut-honses, au~ tbe stockh.old~rs
of the association ba, e a.g reed amon.g themselv.·e s to ~evote the surp,Jua
.in co.me abO¥·e o ·p er cent. on the capital in.,~e _- ted,. to furt-ber improvin,g
tb.e tenem,e nts in rie ,p ect to -o omfor · and convenience. The houses oow
eupJ1 - whole -q,u are, and are built a-round a s.pa£ions co rt~JaN1,, w·b ieh
is used tor drying cloth.es by· a ce·rtain portion ,of the tenaD't,s , and a1so
as a g n . ral pla,ygroun-d for .be c·b ildre·n . Un.d er t'be guidance of tbe.
a~. of tb~ association (w·bose office is in the building) fb.~_co.~ mitt~e
v1s1ted a.nd l'nzspec ed .s ""' ral ,o f th· · -ts, of apartmell't '. · be first ·vtsit1ed 1con · is.t.ed of three rooms, t,v-o_bed~room,s and a livin_g-room, the whol,e
rienting for Sll'. 7,a, per month. The, living-room (w·'h ich ha _, to serv,e aa
kitchen, dining-room, a11d parlor), k , 1n ·t he u1i(ldle,1so ·· bat in. wint .r the
.heat- from the.cooki:ug sto -. ,e wi11 beat the whole thr.ee 1•,ooru.s~ Attached
·t o the ·e ai,art·m ents we:re three largti: clo~ets. · Another : t,. consi, ting
of four 1oom.s1, with large ,c los ts, an,1 ha,.,·.o g ~'tationary tu.b for· ·\ la. ·b . .
ing reuted for $13 .. ~5 per 01011 h'" Tht. . a,g•-nt stated tba't the entire
block of tenewen.t , co..:.t ahont · 300,000-, anti the rents of the apartment ran, be ~ai(;l , -frrnn 87. :?5, th lo· e t., f,o $1.5 .. 50 per· mo11tb 1, the,
'h ighe ·t. The .ston~-·non1s. tor \Tood and. oonl 3re 1u the ce]lar·,. and there
is :au el-evato1 to ear1· ._ the st1pplie.s to tbe upper · tories. Them is a d•e ,
posito 4; in tbe ,eel ·a:r to wbi.c h t - ~ a,shes are carried from all parts. of'
th building b,.. tt1bes.. There i,s al~o a elnb~.roo:m a.nd a readiog~room
provided b-J the a~=s,ociation for the us.e of the tenant _. ln ·t be read.ingr-oom were fouud .arper's -· ·eekly, the Scient1 .·c Ameri.can, Poc·k , and
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-.:Jc..·
BETW
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.· ···N
14 'T-1··o
RE.L&

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The, laundrie · fo.r tbe tenants]o·n tbe_first,
second, and third ,st,01i1es. are i~. _the ee·nar, tbe· clothe being dried i.n
t ·e eourt.yard.. F'o r the fo,u rt'h , fifth, and sixth.stories tb ·· laundries am

other- 1Uastrated ·papfir,sp

on tbe six·tb tloor. Two hundred an,d ei,g h _families oeco·1lY the :a.partmie nts CODtain.e d .i n this b. ock..

· he list of te·n ants s -o-w,e d th.at .a mong

tbem were. ,st-one-cutters, telegraph~-po1e, ·men, baker· ca.bin.e· ma.k en
ha rbers) paint . rs, s.t able~~e·u., · 1udow-cleaners, carpenters,,sea m,st~es8.e8,
engin·· rs, coopers, plumbers, laborers. butchen:11, piano-ma'k . rs, ,ei;rarm.a en,, rubber- ·. orkers,, clerks, shi:rt- · a~ers, &e. In lettin,g th :ir
.apartm,en't th,e association :"nsi.s t tbat ·t be numbe:r of rooms hired. by
ea-cb fenant sllall eq·n •I the number of t~bildre.n in bis fam·Hy.. Tbns, a
family· ·b avi:n g four children wiIJ. be requirro to take four rooms,, and. 80
on~ A calculation m.ade b · .a member of the committee s.how·,ed that
the fa. · ilies av- raged about four and ou -half persons.
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NEW YORK, .August 8, 1883. .
The ,comm tt·e · resumed it,s t ,o ur of in·.·pection thi . morn·in ~·.,, and ·visited.

first a tenement.boo. · of .an inferior class on. the east .side of· th : city,
along the line of th Seeoud A,renue Ble,-ated ,·.aUroad. 0 0 the.second
slory of th tenem.ent the ·omudttee fioond a- family OODS isti.o g -o.f a hus-•
baH d., .a wife, and.·t hree cb.ildren .I iviug i u t.hree small room,s. _The only
1.J:gll't .admitt,e d. to these. a.partur nts came through t~h~ ·w indow of the
frou\ roo·m1, facin,g t'he str,ee't Tbe partition between thi . room and the
one immediately beb·i nd it r( wbicb was. 11' ·. d. a, a kitch:- u,; dinin,_· roo·m,
&e . ) extended only about halt a3 to the ,c eiJing, so a · to ad.mi· tho
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U.al1t, bnt the woma·o said 1t was nece ·sa~~to keep a lamp burning in
da1~time i.n ord-e r to .ha e su.ffi0i.en ·t igh.t to do her w@rk.. 'The -third
room, the bed-room,, in rear of the kit•tbent was really a dark pantry,
with no light or ·v entilation. ,ex,oopt what oould be obtained. through
the door-way connecting it with. 't-h e kite·heo. Tbe womah s,t atM that
th ,Y pa.id e12,..00 per mouth. for· the fbree. rooms. She had a b - by
14- months. old, .a deUcat&looking ebild., .a.n,I in reply· to a m-em.ber of
the eommittee · -b e said t.b t it wa· "all the time sick. "' Senator
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Geor~e sng_g est ed that, w· at the baby needed w .JJ f~eab air,., and that
the. ·mo-tber ou.gh.t tot _ke it to C'o ney Islalld.., but · be &eem-ed am.azed
at th · oggest1.on and exelaim ~d, .,, Ob, "·e -e oold not do that." .I o reply
·t o further questions tbi wom.an s,t ated that her husba.'nd. reeei .-ed 1,2 a
da when he was at . ork, bu-t tba .he was ot"te1 idle·.,. and t.h t .o m.ei t,imt:s even when mployed he bad. work ,d uriug· only four day~ in a
week~ A :m . uiber -o f th .. comm.ittee asked. ber .. het'h er sbe liked her
. apartmeo ts;. · he riepHed that ·he dill n . t., and t·h at th.e e.Je _ated railroad mad ·. h . r s;ick.
T'h e. commith~e n . xt v ·i ~t · d .a arg - emgar ·t a ·. tory on the eais t s •·de. of
tbe ctty,1near the Ea t Ra,~er,,empl.oyin.g now 680 per.so .· ,, and gen -raJ.11
·from ., 00 t-o l. oou.. ·O:ue ot· t'h : prop ~ tor.s aeted .a gni.d e tb.rot1.gh the
factor ·-,, a.nd Sihowed tbe "omndttee t e diffi;rent processes invo .ved in
tke mauufactu1·e of ci,gai · ~~ H .e deeUued to state bow· much eapi.t.al .bia
tirn1 had in.,..~st-eid . but: an . wer,e d ii ely· qu.esti.o ns pot ·b y· the -chairman
in l'@lataon to the pay of bis emJllO)"' es.. The, low·-e st wages, he ,sai.d waa
t -1..50 1 . r week (pa1d to ,c -·ilJ_ u eugag~,l iu "stripping" ·t h ~ t.obaeeo),1
and the highe~,t ··3a per weeki CbildJ . n were not -emplovetl except at
h.o li.d ay time~ The ·w-o rk done by theu1 "stripping,' was the Joiw,es·t gmde
of work iu the fa,eto.r · but ouie adults engag,e d in it made aa ·moeh
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LABOR ilD CAP'I.TAL.

RELA'.TIONS BETWEE!

101

as, 81.4 or tin ·p er week.. The b,unch~makers,,e.m.-ployed in putting the,
oigars1 up ilu buu.ches, averaged about 110 per, w,eek, _and the rollers
abonl the ~a·m,e , fbough ,s ome of tbem. Neei·_ell e,~en ,20t! 'Ihe ·w ages
of the men who, made cigars by ba·nd were ,a:bo,ot 815 11er week. Th.e
,.,ackers. made from '. ·•w to •:J.5 per· 'W@ek, .and th • porters from e7 to 115.
He was unable to tate. wbat it cnst_his employ~ _'to live, bn·t exp·r · ssed
the op,iuion tba( they· m1a de "' - haud,~om.e :1i,-iua.;..''
_
•
A .·. nr, •Ory glanc · at the quarter i.uha,bited 'b!t.. the eolored people in ·
Sontb Fifth ave-Bue and fb -:reabout closed the · ·om,m itte ' tour of in,..
~tion.
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l ORK AugWlt 13, 1883.
T.b e ,con:_1m.ittee m,~ t a . 10 a m,,, .and 'J)Urs.nan_
t to, tb,e announo me:ot
made last · onth~v
,... p.roce rl,efl to taike tbe foUot., in,.
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Jon: . CA,· ,PB , LL •"worn and examioeil...
By the '0 HAIHMAN ":
,Question.. , las st.a.te yo .. res·dence and ooonpation.-Ans,wer. I
.reside io Pittsburgh, . it, .; , am a t .le-.. ra.p h operator .
,Q. How Iona have you been ,a tel,e grap,b operator or acquainted with
that business ,~-A,, ,·. .bon ·. t\\ ·e nt years,.
Q. Hav· · you been conn.e cted, and, if ,·u, for how lon.g a time, with an:y
of the, labor or auizatio s of the coun.trv r-A. I am connected with. the
Kni.gbts, of Labor and . ith the Brotherhood of Telegraphers,, a bran,c h
of' the Knights of' Labor.
,Qi How .Jong ba,~e you been oon1nected with, tb,e Kuights o-f Labor I-A. About t -· o years.
Q., And with the Broth rhood of Telegraph.era 1- - . It is a little 0-1 er
a yea,r ago iuce. we formed our branch of the Knights, o-f LaborQ. PJ,ea e •·. tate ·· om official connection, if any, ·with ei'tber o,f tbose
orders or associations '- A., I a distri,c t ma ·ter worlcman, of' dist.riot
45 of the Knigbt . of Labor, g-eneraHy ·known, a _·. th.e Brotherhood of
T ele,g rapbers of the United rS tatea aud ._· aoada.
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THE BROT'I lERHOOD OF TELEGR · PHE - s• .ITS, ExrE--T
1

Q~ T.hia broth ,rbood tbe ,embraee& uot onlv the t e'le·graph ,operators
of the, United States, bnt also tbo e of ~a-- ad.a, ---- · • Yes,, sir.
Q. Aud tho~e of' any o her counti:ies -A. ~ ooe otber. .
Q.. ow uum. ·rous a bo,l · ts i.t .:-A. 1 am not able to gi'v,e a.ecu:rately
them .·m b ·1'1 hip a ·- th.is tim · , in con,:eq,ueuce of the stri.k.e.. Our meJn•
bership has largel~,. iuer ,. d ~iuce the 8.tri'ke beg-n: but tbe ,d istri,. .,
officers have bet.iiU ijQ bu.8 hat it ha , bli'eu .i.n1110 ·. ible tbr tbem tog_,th.er
any stattst·• ,J.• ,, e th ~nk,1how,e ,,, e r,, tha:tourm embersbipatthe preseut
'" tilue is bet\\Te- n eigb· een an,l nine'teeH t.h.ousand . ,
Q, i ' ow are yonr- me,m bers distributed throu_g hout 'these two countries · -A.. , 'D 'W'b at re· ir1 et do you m,e an , ,
Q.. Does yonr m.e inb ·1r"hip ,embra,ce all seetio-ns or portion.s, of the
Uni'tied ·_· tates, and Oauada ·w,b ere t'he telegrapb i.s m.wle use o,f as 11
means, of t.ran ,:mit!tng il:lt··.·IHgeu.oo ·-- A.. All -ection.s, and both railroad.
and, commercial telegraph operators.
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102'

BEL ' TJONS, BET.W EEN LABOR A ~D CAP1'f.l.L~

Q. All e.la-sses of the employ,es. of the •c orpora.f\fi ons en,, :~aged in the,

bu.sines~ of ·telegraphing· are repre: ented in your ordert-A., Yes, .ir.

Q. Wha,t, : : •fi 11ea-r •·· you i1..r e a·.b le to, state, i ~, the, entir-e uo·rnber of
1&,nch emp,lo·.·.
ho are en.gaged. i.n. f' .'l egraphing· as an occnpa ti'on 1n
the United rSttltes. and Canada,,_ . ·. . . Tbe oumbe1~ ltas been varl!lUsl.y
e_· tim,ited, but I ba,. .e seen :no ,e,nnme.rati.on. ·purport.ing 1,o be aoo.nrate.
since tbe last ,ce su,:,. which sb.o ·s, t a · t ·h ere are about tw,enty-two
thou. a!nd pe'r ·ona ,SO· ,emplo3-ed .

es '"

Q . Inclod·mug both commercial and rai1road. tel.egrapbers T-A.. Yea,
sir·~
Q. Do tl1e · wo classe:~ commer,cial. an.d raUr~oad 011eratnrs, emb:ra.ee
,all _tb ·· tele.grapb.ic bu .ioe· tS that is done ! -.A~. -·. e~,. :·r ; sub ._ tautially.
Q. ~Then, witu tbe exception of 0111 .. t.bree or four thousand operators,
rour brotl1erhood e,mbraces the .· ntire nu.m ber of pe.rsoo,. ·. en.ga,g ed i.o the
T

business. t-.A . Yes..
Q.. W.ba.t i ·. y,oor r,eilat.:ion. to the existing s, ri.'ke of tbe telegraph.e rs ! A.. I · ,nppose that I am 'looked upou as a I · ad,e r to a ,ce.rtai e tent~
Q. Is there a eo·mmittee w ie . bas ge·ner··l cbarg.· of the matter,,_ .
A . There. is an. ex,e cutive boo.rd~
,Q. .A re you a m.embe of tbat board,._ es,, sir.
_Q ~ Wbat is ,y onr position ou th · board , ·- A. lam jue,t a. member of
i

·t
l~.

·.··

-

Q~. Who i
Boston~

chairman of the boRrd !-Ali llr.. BugtiDe .J •. O'Connor.,, of

-

,Q.. n ·a ve you 'been eonuected ·.·ith this strike from, "ts 'inception to the

p ,r esent time !
' -,·.· . I hav,e .

- Q I suppose, then,; that you know the causes which led. to it,, aud the
measure that have been tttken in its, ·p rosecution t-A. Yes.
CAU~S OF THE STBU[E.

Q~ Won.- t you sta.t ·. to the conimittee, in your ow.n _ar and as fully
as you 'p lease, the, causes wh.icb. baf. e led to tbi . . , · trike ,on the part of
the tele, ,r .apbersJ- . ·.., Tbe obj,e ct o,f the 1~ri ke is, to .oou~
re increased
oo,mpen.eatio·n and a deere - ~e of wo1idng hours~ W ,e elaim. tha.t, the
salari,e s of operator,s bav,e been not only generall,y but ssS'tematically
~ot do,wn. dur.ing tbe va · t eigbt or ten ,ears, .and for hat r,eason we
formed an organization. w,"fh t.he view of brin,g to,g about eonc,e rt ,of action
fO'r the ·b e.ttering of the condition. of tbe ·membenhip of our ,c raft.
Q. One grievance you eorup,l ain of, th.en,. :is. nnjl1 ,t reduction of co.m•
1. ~ I
·•· .,· ,_ A
..
peusati.OD. or a 1~ l, ~ .·re t~ 'I. Der8a1~0, your· ea
ompen· a t:100
·.· ._ ~, Y
·.. es, Sir.
Q. ~ d .yon claim., also,. tJiat you a.re.obli.ged. to w~,r k ·too many hours
daiJy
... t A. l:es..• sir.
Q, Have you any othe ,c ause of ,c-omplain t-A . No,, :ir.
Q. I have seen ·,·ome statemen·t . ll-'ith rnri -rrenroo to Suudav work.-A.
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Yes, sir. W,e lia,,~e al. ·o dem.and.ed e,xtra compen atiou for Sunday
work,i

Q~ Upon that point, what is the existing practice; ,a re ron paj.d for

·w orking on the Sabbatb t-A. There iis uo compensa,tion. allowed by
tel arap,b oompani.e s for Sundav ·w ork.
Q. Pl,e a .e ,s,t ate the ordinar ·· terms of emplo, meD''t of the teleg.r ap'h
oper-a tor-wbetber be is em1plo,yed b~ th · m.o:ot'h or by tb.e day, and the
r,a te of ·wages ·u sually pa·d..-A. Opemtors are employed. by tlie mouth
-~ ea l anes
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l.08

BELA'TIONS BETWED; LABOR AND CAPI.TAL..

By Mr. Pu·GH .:
Q. Bow· lon.,g since ·t his system o.f :f7eduetion that you_speak oif' oommenood 1-A. It has bee,n guin.g on since tb .·. strike of 1810.
.y the CHAmMAN:
Q.. Please Mta.t-e tbe n.vera,ge pay of a tele,gra.Jl,h o•p -rato·r ~A!I T.h e
.· ,erage pa: of op·· · rat ors,..according tu th. statist.tcs, w;e bave boon .able
to gather, is about $64 per· montl1 tor oommei:c.ial o~rators and a~nt
139 for· raDroa<l.op. Taton.. · be statistics of 1abor in P·e 1nsy.lvauia-,sbo·w
th.a t the a.vera(J'e wage1s pa,fd to r.ailroad operators in that 1S tate is 138.35
per- mon _h.t ,o f oour · · ., there are ma. y opera.tors receiving }arger salaries,
bu· that 1s tbe a era,ge.
Q" Wb.a. ·. a·r e the highest rat,c s of compensation pai,d 1-A. The higbes.t rat .· s ·pai.d to stri.etJ.~ fir,s't-•·cla s .-operators are from. eso to f 85· per
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n1onth...

Q.~ Does the place ·where tb,e s.er .· ice '"s rendered me:k-e a:n y dttference
as to the rate of compensation; :f br ins,tance, d.o es a · 'ew _· .· o Olt City oper.-

ator re.eei.-ve more 11Jt.y t·ban an operator in 'fbe country , ..........A~ Yes; the,
co.mpen.sation o.f o,11erators in New y;ork ,C ity is hig'h er· on .an · ·v e~1
than the oompemsati.on in some of' the ,s.maU,er ,cities.: .s uch as Hartford
,o r r,.,e·w Haven.
Q. D 0- y·o u · ean for sim:i ar labor-work. requ." ing the same degn!e
-'"
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o-r·
•. skil".
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By M·r~ GEO'RGE :
Q .. Do :vou ;.:a,y that the pay i.n Ne · Y:ork average,a .h .igher tba.n in
o,th·.· ·r c·1ties t-At I believe tbat ,s ome of the Soot ·em e1ties av·erage
high.er tha.:n New •.. ork-New Orleans, lf.·. mpbijs,. aud Nashville..
QmTb.e pay there is, qual o, that j---, ' :e.w Yor·k , yon sa,y , o,r i.s it
gr,e ater -- A. In New O·rleans, I beli.e·v,e, i·t is perba.ps .a little higher
than 'in ·:·- e · ····ork.. They em.plo,_ none but strictly fin:drclass opera.ton

there.

Q. A ·n d. 'the pay in New Orleans, Memphis, and Nashville is about
tbe same, a ·~-you unders:t and 7--A. · .·bout the same.
.By tbe OH -· KMA..N':
Q. You have told us th.e a erage wage.a.. p.aid to tel.e grapb operato,r a,
and also the highest ·w ages,; s.tate no·w, if yoa please, what w&.gel
are p ._id lo,wer th.au the average.,- A~ Tb_re are ·m a·ny operators em.pl0:J,e d in ,c omm,e rcial _e legrapbiu_g who ret:;eive l -.30, .. ·35, 140, or
a
mon.th~peratora. employed o-n w.ay wires, local wires, wires, nmomg to
.s.mall to,wus. ,
·
By M:r.• CA.LL:
Q . What proportion of tb.e who,le._num.ber of operators belon._g to tbe
fir, t class and r ;e,eive fro.m $80 to $85, a mouth T-At T.h at I am not
a.ble to ,s ate. Perhaps som,e of the other witnesses can tell yon. I
ha,d intended to eollect some statist"cs fo.r the information. of this, com-..
mitt,e e, but I ha· e been so busy · hat I h.av.e o.ot, had time to ,d.o it.
By. t e· CH" 'i"'D,. "N •
Q . . ·:· oo haive tol,d u .· that tb:ere has been ·a B:YBtematic. reduc.tion 'in
the rate' of oom.penL1-.·t ion pa". ·. to operatom, ever· is,ince. 18 ,o t-A. Yes,
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Q, What were the rat.es of wages at that time and pri.or to tba.t
tin1e 'l ~A. They were :muc·h ,g reater than they are at the present timeproba.b ly 35 or •.O P:-r cent.. lli_ghe.r~
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RE~AT1 0NS BETWEEN LABOR. AND CAPITAL ..
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·Q!! Extending back for bow ma.ny .J"ears t-A.. Back to about the be-

Immediately·after tb:e be.g inning of' 'be war there
wi,s quite an inerease ,~n , be oompeusation of telegrap'hers... The · over. m~~t, of eourse, ·w as •com11elled to ·b.a· ·ea lar,ge number of operJ.tors
for m1 I1t ary purposes~
Q. So th.at there was a greater d.eman<l for telegraph operator ~,.a t
that time _~.A,. Yes, s.i r. Th -_ a,er.;.1 _g e puy of fi.rijt-class. operator-s, in
1870 was from $00 ·t o •:115 or•• · J'.20. It had h .·-~· n gradua-11y adv.arn . · in_
g
to tha,, point from about 1860 to 186li
·
Q,. Can ,~ou stnite what had b en t be co,mpensation oft .e·g r,a-ph oper
8:t.Ors, p:rior to 1800, or prior to the gen .· al ehauge. io onr industrial con_...
,d ition· su_lting from fb.e war ·- A. No, ,·i r ; I caun o•t~
Q ··our information ori the ·u~j,ec·t comm . u te8 ,rith the ontbreak of
the ,,~ar ! -.A Y ·~-s l sh:~
Q.~ Can 300 ~tat wl1at. th.- . g eueral com1>ensatio . ,as at tbe 1ime o,f
the outbreak of tb ·· war.. iu · l.1 .· same '\'fa.v · bat \.on ba ·e s· af.ed the
pres.e nt r tes of' com11en~atio:n ·:-A. The a,.. erage ·pa.J of railroad oper-•
ato·r s ·wa · a bout tbe sa.m ., as at the 1.n»e ~ent ti1ne.
Q.. B<lw was it a,s to comm.e rcial operators t A .. I think their com-•
peoisa,tion \\'as g.r eater· theu than ..0 wli

ginning ·Of t·be ·w:ar

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By llF, GEORGE .
Q~. ~o you sa3, tbat tbe a1Prage comp.en . tinn of rail~ad opemt,o ra
a.t the, beg··nuing of" the war _as abont the , am ·. a , no,w !~A. Yes sir;
I tbin.k so.
THE WESTERN UNION COMPANY THE OHIE:P' E111:PLO ·ICER..

By th - CHAIRMAN :
Q. Who, is the em.ployer ,of the.se teleg ,Rl>ll rs ·! -A. The principal
,employer i~ the_vVeSitern U-uion. Tele,grapb Compan:v,.,
Q., Ont:ddt, of that co-mpany, tow a·, extent. is th~· em.ploymeut in
this country aiud :in ·Caualla to-r p rsons engaged in th.. occupation of
telegn ·1•hi.ug .'- A~ , he Wes ·ero ..- Dion ·e1egra1lh Compa.ny em11,l oJ~,
I think, about oue<fitl.h of all tbe operator-· in the United : ta.te - and it
em.p loys ·m.o:re operators than any other company,.,
Q. \Vhat other em11llo,~v ers of' telegraph operators are there · . -A.
There are the other com1nereial te1.e grap·b oompanie ·,,the An1e·rjean
Rapi.d , the 1S outhern, t-he : ·o tal: Telegi-·aph, and the ra1lr"a.d com1la1des.
Q.. o,w ,, wlu,t proportion of the "t,ele.«ra11hers, doe.~ each one, of those
eorp·orati'ons em11lo ; You ~aV" that th Western Union empl,ovs one..
fifth of the whole -A. I think so.. Probabb{ t-wo-tbirds of tbe opera ·or,s
are railroad op, rators., e·1n11,1o,yed I•~- th . . ,·ario:os railroad. c.ompa.nies~
Q~ 'Th.e remaining op rator~ are en11tln~Ted by th .· telegraph ,o ompanfes
engaged i:o oornm · cial busine s .- . Ye~, ·r; and on pri, ate ·. ir,_ ~~
A great 1nany operators are ~mploy d by privat,e ind.i,i.dua.l . in l~u~1•n .· . s lion~s~
Q. You speak of the Rap,i tl Te legra(lb .,omrla.ny
· ha pro1)orti,00,
of ·t he en-tire. ntim her of" ~perators, doe · that company emplo~ , or ha_. it
empln .ed until. reoo:11. ·- 1J~ '- At I am not able to give you t at ~nfor1na..
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tion,.

Q:. You l1al·e mentioned, also, the .Po- .'tal Telegraph Compao,y. Ho-w
maHy does. tha en1J.)IOJ .-A+ 1lul is a 1small concern,. wllo-s e «""res exT
tend 001,y fron.1 -1::·: cw Y o.rk to Ch ·,ca.go.
Qt In . on juclgm1e ut, how doe •, tbe uu1nber emp,loYed 'b y t 1e 't es.~ t

ern · .·niou Co1111n nY com1lare with the nnm.b er em.plos •e d by th . Rapid.

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BBI,A'TlOlfB BETWED J;ABQB AND CAPITAL..

Com.pan, t~A. ,Oh, t"be Western Union probably employs about five
times as many as the Rapid,,
Q. 'Then the Bap,i d Oo~pan.y employs probabl,y about one.twenty.
fifth of the whole num.'b er-t-A. Yes, s1r.
By - . r. ·p uGB :
Q. Will no•t the ·n umber of (?pera;~ •r s employed by the Wes·tern i ·. niou
Company ,exceed 410007-A.. twill e·. ceed 4,000. .
Q.. ·h :;_ n, that eompani ,em.ploy . mooo than onel" fifth of tb.e ·whoJ.e number- T-A. Probablr. I am not.ab)e to gi·v,e yon accurate ft.gores.. The·r e
are • boot four 'bot1sand oftiee. tha ·_re -exclusively We.stern Union

,offi .. 8-

B,.! tile CuA:IBMA
,Q. The·n , as, I nder tand. T'ou, · "s strike ·i,s not a protee.t agai·nist the
rate paid by tbe Western. Union Telegraph Company .alone, but also
agains the rat . . paid b •· a·11. t.be em:plo¥er.s of tele-gra.p'bic labor · -A.
Yes, s.i r,. but 't e W · ter.o Union Con1 a.n l fi es be · ;tandard of u-- a11 _..
Q. How d.o s that ha-ppe·a .·_.-A. The We.stern ni.o n bein.g th . :i arges.t
em·p loyer of tel . . gra,(lb operator··,, the other companies. usu.ally follo,Vt its
Jead.
Q. In ·t he. progress o.f your s, ·r ike have yuu found any :m anifestation
of a ·wiJlin,nesB on the part of t'he other emJtiloyers o.f t •.·Iegr.apbic .labor
to accede to ,o ur demal'n d :i f tbe. w·, ·. ·.tern Union Compan . · . oultt do the
samef.....-A" Ye , 1:r ; ·we have had .·~ ,gen,eral expression by the otber
,oompanieR ,o f · ,e ir willingness to concede anything· tba·t the Western,
wo-··uld. 00·0 ..... ..,,...:1 ··.
Uru~on
Q. Do·w a boot the railroad companies '! -A.. We haT'e had nothing
fro tb.e railroad com.pamies at a,11. ·... , e ba\"'e n.o t presented a·o y 'bili of
grievance ·. to the raUroad oompauies, w·i tb onie or t · .•o exceptions
Q. Ba,,,e .YOU any doubt that they . onJd acood.e to your ,d m · .t1ds 'if
the telegraph oom;-pani,· • did ,s o ! -.A . I think it i - rather ,d,o ubtfnl, It
is possible, however,, that 10 that, ease there might be a itH11all iner,. ase
,o f the oom pen.sa _·on. of railroad ,ope·r ators.
·Q.. Do I understand you to isay tbat the otb.e r com·mer,cial employ,er&
of ·t elegraphi•c labor bad · xpre · .· ed a .illingness t•o aooede to, tile. de•mands of the ope1-.ators p:rov.ided ·t ·be Western Union Oom1.u1uy would.
do so!-A.. The Amerieau Ba,pid Co,mpany has,alreadypartia'Hy acceded
to o-D'r terms
Q. You ·h ave spoken also or··p:rivate . mJ>loyers of te1egmpb ope·ra"tor .. ;;
all t e · ay round, would you h ·_ ·e an·. difficnl·ey ·i f t'he W,e stern Union.
WO'old accede to ,your ,demands T~A.1 · think n.o~
Q. That is ho·w you under .ta-11d. the 'itnation.7-A~ Yea, sir.
Q., Do yot1 me-an tba ,. these other co.mpa,nies. ad ·•·it 't·b .ejustice of Jour
claiu -A. I don't kno ·.· that they admit the ju tice of them, bu·t th y
state that they .are. wi11in,g to aceede to an. . thing that the West .r o.
U io · ·. in ,g rant I p,r e .um:e they s ~ y that because ·t hey th.ink t · a·t the
W,e st ·.· rn Uni.on Compan will not .g rau.t an,v very extravagant iacrea,s e
of wages in any case.
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OPER.&trORS' PA

IN'A DEQUATE.

Q. Won't ,011 state to the.e..o mmittee why .ron think the rates,of wages
which you are :reee·iviog are too lo· .and oo,n stitate a grie,v ance which
justi
or, perbap ,. req"D·i r,es you to. make. your prote ~ t in the fo,r ni of a
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striket-A. Well, it is the ,general opinion of the openton, that it is

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hardly possible for ·hem to galn a dece·nt live]ibood at. the p,11eseot rate
of wa~ · .,
Q How do tbeir com11e·u sation oom1fr N _ith 'that paid in ,o ther a: ocn.tioruJ d:. manding a, like qua litJ of labor for ··e·r , ·.ices req:uiriug equal
skiU t-..L\ • I belie·: . ' tb
0mpen · ation ,o f tel. ,g raph operat,Ot8 ·_s ' 1uch
', less Tak . ·, for in .t ance,, the railroad 01• :rato-r~ :'" wben you consider that
theJ 1',oTk lo _
g r hours than almotL any other cla ·- -,I and to.at ·t h y ·. re
not allow ed any extr . ·omp . nsc tion for Sundas ... o k, th.. · ar reait,
plaeed., so, far a · regar-<l.s ornpen atio-n, on a le,~1. with th:~ ~o.mm·on
l bore·r s, if not below them, '38.or . ~po.. · on.th being the a,,·e·rage wa.gea .
wliicl1 :rro1i-o,p emtors receive. Now, ""Then JOU con id . r, a.s I h _,e -aid,
tbat ·t b y work ~,"i IT Sun(ln-i, e, e ~, dn:v in tb ~ear·, and worli: t en,
t' 'e l _,e , a~,d foo1 en hour Fer (la•)", tbetr' a,·era-°'.e compensa ton IS no·t
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,g re~t at:11that of co ·,mou unskHJed labore1~s.
Q. Do )!,.Ou. 1nean ·b: · "laborer" · he mall . ho d.igs in a ditch o:r who
pe1.·forms, 'the low·,e r· ind!.. of 1na.nHal work - ··. •. Y · · ., · i.r~
- Q.. J,· this low r te of wa,~e . .· . f w·bich ~on. co1npla:in occasioned by
tbe Io,, compensa -ion wld§h tbe t Ic,raJJh compauie rece-i ~e fro·m. ·t be
public, at Ja,r g·e f-A . . We think u~ ·1. ; ,,. le think tha·t they could afford to
pa,.. mueb b · t i. r wag ~s tb.a.n tb · ·puv now~
Q . What ar,e ·oor r-eason , for thinking thflt he tele."'ra11h compantea
ca·o .afford to pay better wag . ~ othe·rwi ·. e tbt1n by an 1.ucrease of the
rates , b1ch they now char~ ~ the public ·f or tb :_ir •. . nic · ,1-A.. At ·the
pr ,- · nt ttme tbe leading telegraph company of' t . is <!OUotrr, th WesteT .. ·o·ion, ia. paying dl itL od at the rat of 7' per ce L per annum,
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and I l:,eJieve-it bas fr.e,q eotly paid s.t o _k -d1\1idends, also_
, w·bieh are
p·n u,ticalt th-e earn . t 'h 'in" as ca: h di . idend ",
Q.- A.r e 3·00 prepa,red to g~l"e t]1, · eommittee any d finite i ·formation
in regard to t'hat subject, th•· di1,iclnnd,S pa.id by that telegraph com.-pan,y t -A • . · o, sir; I hav · no a-c carate figure, to givt :y ou o-n that sobJee ; but,I fUI I stated ·befo1~e, I 'biuk. · ome of' t'he other 'Wi nes · s wbo
are to apJ)-e ar here b · ve ,eo]1ected sta .. i•, tics nnd will pN_ent them. before
t.lJis, com mit-t'ee~
Q . Yon do not think,. a_. I underl!i :and you,. that - y i·ncr-e se that
m·i ght be :m a,d e in tb .· · ,eoo1pensation of tbe opel'a to · ·. , 'Onld result, n.etl-·
,e~sar1ly., in an inerea·· ...•of the rates to b · · paid by th.e· public for tel.~
gr ·1jb ,. ·e rvice - ,· ... ,v · think it ought not t-o..
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TELEGB.ArHING P ·B..O . tT.ABL,E AT CB · _·PEB RATES~

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Q.
ow has i ,t b _. n a to t 'h d rea! · of the :r.ates charged by the
e8t,e n Union T,e l -.araph Co,mpao~ to tbe pttblic do . n to the present
timet'- A. · _· ell,, ·when :rott con.sider tba ' · he facilities of the company
h ·~ve been Ja·r gely increaRed, iolly donbled, b,y inv,euitions, "tis the gen ...
· .ral opiDion of practical. op •ratorl · t-1.a , m · sa,g es ,c ould be handl,oo
a·t m:u ch less. rat ·. - than are uow· · ·a1·g d and that the compan.y would
still be able: ·o ·p ay larg . r co1npeu atjo , ·o i.ts op rators. For ·i nst ·nce,I
wben the duplex instruuient was in, e f.e<l tha.t doubl d tbe eapacity of
the ,vires, of the W tern ~Hiou '.re ,· graph Oornpa'Dy, but tbere w.as no
increase of wages at tb~ · time nor au1· rnateri , d · er a· · · in the ratea
,c harged to the publio for trau •miUr.iug ues~age .; __ nd wh o ·t he ,q_oad"'
rt1pl · x 1S Jst m was iu·, . entetl . i.1 ·t ttd of the. .. b -ing a ,g eneral ~eduction
ot<the tariW, ·t he-r e We~ a redu tio11 of :r ates to a few poin.ts. o_ly, __ Dd ,a
g,ener~J systematic reel .ctio ·. of tlJe weg·e s of 011e1~ ti es followed. almost
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ionn d·iate]y.. . _'h- t re<lt ., t1ot1 . a u1atJ.e, 1 fUlV, afler 1 · tn e :1 tion of
the quadru1•lex sy··,tem., , _hmcb wulripliLi.ll the 0om.p anr''s facilities _g reatly
without ad.d i:ug very mu . b to th 1r ex.iiendit11re.
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By Kr, GEORGE :
Q·. That inven.tion,, yon 8JV1 was fo]lowed by a reduction of'wagestA. Y s, ,s ir; i.t. wa~ fon wed by a syetema.ti · redoetion of wages..
Bytbe . H

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o you .attribnte t bati to the acquisition ,o f the in ention. 'b y the
o•m.P ny •O r to the ab orp'lion of' co1npetiug line , or to, what ean,se do
yon nt•t ribut it. · ' It oould bardl.r b , I Rhouhl sin·ppoSie,, tba · the ac~
qui ,i'tion by the. •c ompany of' iu r ·a s·.cl faeiUtie~ for rendering service to
tl1e publtc wnuld oi·' i · elf b mail on oeca. ..100i for the reduction of
w ge ·. - . I thi.n k the r,oo.uction can be attributed to bnt one •CBiUm&e::,-·-the ·uord.inate greed of the e:m1r•loyem.
Q. Tb o . ,r ou do not th iuk it ·w·.as becao~e th y· had acquired greater
fae~u ie . tol" doiu.g bus·ues 1- . . o, but mr idea is. that there should
ha, , · been not onJr a decrea · - of tb · ·r at·•;' c·h arged to the pnbli,c bu·t
also an in~ruase of wa -:es. I l t heri - is to b . au.y ben.e fit de:ri"·r ed from
inYeutioH we think tlla · we ought to ba., ..e , ome of' it, and that the public .al o ongbt to ·h ave a share.
·y I r . GEORGE ~
Q. Do 'those inl",ention 1 the duple · aod the quadrnple·x 8¥8tema,
enable on . operator to d.o• o -e work tba he could do before t-. · .. o;
bu: th · .· mult1p'l y the capa:eity of the wi~PSt
·
Q~ They. ,d o uo , howe,..e:r, increase the capacity of the o,p emto•r f ........ A. _.
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Q.. Then toey do 11ot,ha,?·. a tendenc, to d.e crease the :uuml>er of ,e.m-

plo,~ . r qui'r, db · th · compa .Y 7-A~ No, si1'1
By _Ir ; U ·G R=·

·Q.. Do those .in.,... ntions increa~e or decrease the attention requir,oo by·
th , operato1 to h ·s ·v.·,01·k !-A. No, I eaono·t say that tbey have had that
,effect..,

By tbe CHA.In.··
Q. Then. ·. bat was th ·effoo of those inventions t-.A. beJ1' 1nereased
the cap ·~it,y of the wires. The d.up ex doubled t1u, capamty of each
wir•e a.n.d the quadruplex qnadrnpled it, ith a v.e·r y slight i·n orease ·i n
the e penditure of th company.
By Ir.. ' GH:
Q. Then t.be benefit of those inven.t1oos i ·oo.red to the comp,a ny al.o ne I
A .. Yes, sir.
. B.y Mr . O.· ·. ·L :
Q.. Where the capacity of a wire .. as increased twofold, h.ow many
more operators we·r e reqnired to wor·k it!-... ·.. That d.epeo.(Jed n.p oa
·w betbe·r tbe business, inere _. ed. u1or, . or less.. T:b e business has 10 foot
inrcrt~d, i·t ha.s k,e pt 11;1ee with the inorease of the · eompa-ny's faeiJ ..
it1es.•
Q But I su.ppos.e that if th ,~apacit., .. of each wire was increased t 1
at
·wuldd necess'i · te a,dditi.o nal O'll ·rat.ors T A. Y es, sir.
Q., How· man ' - " W ,e ll, if tbe oat) · e1ty of a · ii:e · as doubled an,d
the bosi~ess doubled .a't ·t he same hue it would req'o1re aboat d.o uble
the umber of 01>erators. Row ver, .since these inv,e ntions. have been
introduced op . ator . ha1:,e be -u requl .ed to w·o rk al~ttleharder, i'f'any·.
thio.g, than tbey· did befiore, n.ot in co.nseqnen.ee of th ·. inventious, but
in consequenoo of the S·. stem adopted b', the tel,e gmph oom.paoiea.
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108:

R'ELATJONS, :BETWEEN .LABOR. A~'TJ C·APITAL.
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By· the CBAmMAN ~
Qil Do ~rou .know how many tel.egrap · e-J's there were in tbe country in
1810, o.r abo t 'b ow many'- · - No, sir1
Q., Are :fou able -to state ·w -etber t,'be nu·mbe.r has increased from that
tim . do-w to the 11r-esen.t T A" It. h.as probably do· bled.
Q,. The tel,e graphie ta-eilities of th .· conntr5- ba,,..e very much mo-r e than
doubled, I tn'k .· it t-A.. Yes, s!' r ;, I 'th ink the,,, ba"?•e,
Q. Jn th •··· g -ne:r al . . :xte&,·ion of the l·ine~ and. ti e.increased ea pa-city for
traDBmittin 6 iut•~ lr~euce ~-A Yel'S-, ~ir; a-utl. th r ha _·, been a like iuerease in. th .· bus1n,e1SS band! ·. d. .I beU · v-e that. iu. 1870 t'he "l\,,.,e steru
Union Telegrnpli •· 0rr1l>nuy hatl . 01net:l1i u" like ,s,even n1iUion m -·stil.~e. ·1.
while during ·tl1~ 1.-a~t vear t ~-Y Iu,\~6 handled about thirtJ"-fi're 1niUion~.
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It :9, D , l .:, ; · D A ,L,.' D Dl-.. FE~""DED.
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s t1.·il (_1i

genera· J) _ot~s t by emplo.res

agaius't onJn~t action ou the J>art of t.beir employera.. I is a mild sort,
a revolution ..
Q.. 'W·,e ll .,~ou t' legrap,h ope1 ftto· · are an em1d0Jecl nn,1er contraet.~ to
rencler senri,ee to) oul· ~mploJcr tor ce-ttain ,e or pensation, and . l,y concert, ;sou al I at; 011ee. cea ·:" •·· :t o 1-e.1 a.d, r ,.. nclt ·. ·erv.ice au cl to become , .otit1,e d
to such compensation 1--A. ·-~·e Jllace our~e1,~e:s iu th.e saroe relati.on to
the telegraph companies t ,·.a·t tb ·. co111panies have. pla,e.e<l themselves in
to tb.e publict Thei say to the public, '' e wHl .eud m : sages for .r ou
at certain r.at s, an(l if those rates doH ~uit you w, · ·w ou' t s nd your
1n,e-ssag·es ;" and \le h.a, e isaid to the -oom pani .·s, "' We w1 I or.k for you
at certain rates ·i f · be~- · uit you; i-f th .· y do not suit yon w .· w,on't "\\""·· I"k
fur y,ou~"
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Q" You don't. consider,, t.hen., that, yon ha,.··e oomn1itted an,v breach of'

m1:istinJ? oontra.c ts by so do1·o g T-A . -N.o .. not a·t .aJIL

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Qt Wh..at ,steps ba,·e yon taken,, · :o far a,s Jou are at, rberty t 0 ·. tate
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iniU.a ·-.ion of' th.is etri.keJ

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a,;- , · the grl ·v anoo.

Now, please atat, as far a~ . ro11 are wi1.lin:rtostate bere wba.t you b~t;,e
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done, tllroH.gh yon.r or,g aniza'tion and by u1 . an,s of )~our oo,m ·m ittee, i -.
the initiation and conduct o-f tb.e strike which you say you ha,.,e entered
into as a means ot" ,obt.aine:ngi re l1,ess o.f ~your grieva.a ces,., A. In the
6·r1s t,place, our orga.nizat.ion held a eo·n·v ention in Mar,c b last, a -,Cbiea.go.
We tbe,m dr-ew np a hill of gri vaHces ettiog forth ot .r· demands and.
w·.h a.t · e thou,g h·t i was. ri :ht, a11.d Jus-. ·U.u1t ""f- e should reooi~e a~. oomp_ensation for our ser . ices, ·and that hiU of b~e·,..anees, .as snbmited -O
all the l.oc··1l as ·- :m.bli ·. of on1· organizatio ·1.
.DEl'.I · NDS O..

Tll'E STR.lKING OPEUAT'ORS .

Q1 Dave. yon a ,c opy of that bi l of grieYanoes ,vLh you -A.~ I ha·,--e
not,. but I bav, the ~nh8-ta11ce ot it as it 1"~a · ·p r·t! · nt -<l tot 1 \\ est rn
Union Com:pan.yt This i .· the e-ommu 1c ·hon tbll't we · ent. to that ·0 01n-•
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·p any :
CE_ RAL OF'F l:C E ~ nROTR RH-OOD 0 ·,

IIA .H . TAS

Taos'" T~

ECKERT,

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TELEGJtAP.HERS OF TD ' U,;']TBD· S,T &TES A~"D
C.ili.'X A DA,,

S"!~~B-Tt .,...-.
Yo.rk City . .Mo111tlay" J aly 16, ~ -

L . cou~"ER ~no:An~ ~'\" ..AND· ~ 1A.. AL

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Gfnn-a.,l Ma, ag ·r -a;1d .d' .tl HfJ Pre id, ~i1 t of i'lur
Wt18t . r,~- U11·,ion · eltgra,ph. Cotnpa:»!I, t\'!':" t,a· Fork ify :
S,1n : T'.tii nr cl,e nigned, the e· ·.e cuti e ·b ool'i
the Brother'bood of Tele,g mpben of
the United States a:od Canad.a,, actin - in aecmd. D:ee . ··t h ~ · · .,rueUo s from t at body,,
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BELATI.ONS BE'rWEEN LA.BOB. AND CAPITAL,..

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Telegraph Compa.n, . :
SECTION 1. Believin,g · tha pillfln'.s physical. a,n d u1ental welfare:requires that a·t lean
o.:ne· ,d y_ hi aeve_µ be·aec.or,d. -d _h im fy,r rest a1uil ·t eerea ~ on,, w . ·_ :request the tiotal abolition
of Sunda!y Wflrk as, comp11 ,_ ry duty,. un le • oom:pensated. as extra sem.oo~
SEC. 2.. Thate": _:bt ho
. shai'l ootia.t itute a day's wor . an.d. w-eo. ·b oon. a night"a
·work.
S c .. :s.. Both. sex.ea :m all r cei.v e equ ·1 .~ ay fo-r equ - . work.
18 -~ . 4~ That a, tu1iversal intlJ\eue of 6fteen per cen.t . o·o al salaries now paid be.
p ·•,n ted.
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t. Th ·_ · mgh't b.,o un .shaH cousti tnte, a re ,nla.:1· day'-''a work, .a nd t·b t , oom.·pensaiion at the ra·t ,o f two, day's pay be _aHow,e d t:r all Sunday w,ork.. _Tha·t the
lowes:t ,e alar.y ·paidl
,g ular Hne , u shaU be PJ5 ·p er mo'Dtlland fornelpere ISO Tbati
tb · dnliea ,o f finem,en be confined solely to their legitima, e, work.
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· ~ T.b at, yo-a say, was rour bill of grlevan-ces. Was. it submitted. di*
rootly to the Western Union Telegrap·h Company b,y your oommittee
~•r was it sanctioned by the dilferent lodges I- ·,. . t was fint &10.b miW
to all the lodges..
_
' l,od· ff'Aliili
·th,e· t-A Th,ar.o a" 'PD iQl,•t- P''nlliCll,g·n t·
O·:w, m· .· ny-:- o··f th
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about one hundred and fl.fty,
·Q,. Please state ·i.n a gen.e ra'I way where they ar,e loeated.-A. In aJI
the principal cities in ·t'h.e ·u nited Stat . and C•.anada.
Q~ What action waa taken upo!]. this statement of gri,evances by
those v:arii0ns organ1zatio,ns,·. -A. It was ratified by m.ore than twotbi~ds o.f th.e assemblies in the order, and. almost nnaru.moas'l.y aa 't'o the
mem.bersh'ip. The a -semblies. .·o:Ung .against it d.id n.ot .represen·t a m•em..
be.rs.hip, of' more tban about two hundred..
Q.. ,Som,e_of the as~mblies _did not .act at .all, I suppose 1-·A , There
· -- .~ew th
·t &· · b.
. .d·-·1·d·_ no··. act-.
w•e.- re- ·very
. .a t·..w•· .d
,.. n-o.-..
. · · ·me 0· f th
. __:_e· newer ass.ew
_.1-1es
Qi Do I underd&i'n d y,o u tba-t of thos ... who d:id act the. action was,
ooanim.ous !-A .Al'most unani1noo ..
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Q.. And that unanimous action ·w . iudorsing the billol grievanooe tA. _Y~ ,sir. .

Qf About w·h at time :h ad tb:is r<1ti&eatioo -taken. pJa.ee, .a nd been made

knO'w • to :von t-A. Abou two ·m onths a.go~
•Q·. Go on n.ow aud :tate the hi'-tor .·.· of· the affair fro,m ·t hat time fo,r
wa.rd . -A~ The e .ecutive board were iostrueted, of ,course·, b:Y that
ratification to preseD't tbese demands to the, se.v eral ·telegraph oo·m..
pantes io the form of a petition, a.nd. they· were empowered to enter i.nto
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RELATIOIJ'S BETWEEN LABOR AND OAPJTAL ..
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.gotiation or arbitrati.on~. if sncb a thing eould be brou.g ht abou• -, for·
tbe ret.tlement of the matters in question. ·. e presented the bill of

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,g ri,e . · ances to tb e vorious com-panie~, ancl we w re respeetfn.l.·l y '7eooiTi"ed

by· mos.t of theui...
Q What com1punies did Jon p•t ts ·u t th m t-o!-A .. We present;ed
them to .be ·w e:teru ni6n Te1e,1!ta.P Companv t e Ameri.c an · 'a pid
T'eleg:ra.ph , ompan·y,_!b -· ,·· attimnre -aud. Ohio : ommercial Te~e,gra:pb
Compan3, the Great Noi·tb'west -ru T I gra.pl Cou1p,a n,.. ~ and also to the
various, te], phon.e com1•an1e - in this city,, and to the Iectri~ligh·t , oom.
pa.ni s,, in tlu-'· in'teres:t o t be lin em n.
- Q" Yo-n speak of the. Bal ·imore and Ohio Co:m·me·f7·cia-:l Te11e.grapb Compa.n.y; is t at a d.1·· tin,c t orga nizatio-n frou1 ·h · Baltimore and Ohio Rail•
rood !-A. It is an o:ffi.'hoot o,f tbe .Baltimofe and Ob.io .Ra1lroad Company,_b 11t it is supposed to be an independe:ot org.a.nization.
Q. D9 "\"~n 1ndersta.nd t ho.tit is reaJ1y 1'u d ·pende·n t, ,or that, · 18 substanti.ally tb . Baltimore and Ohio, Railroad C·om·pany ,e·nga.g,ed in d.oing
a. 4!ommer.· iul tel egraph. 'b usine,s s , _ _·... I think that is i:t real ch ·. meter.
Q. Its o ·. n.e·rship and managem eut, then, are snbstantiaUy the owne·r ..
■hip, a11.d managem .·nt of · be B· ltimore a d. Ohi.o ·1 ailroa,d Company T1

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A.• Yes, sir.

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,Qt, At what tilnie was. tbi.s. bill of grievance sub,m itted to the tele,..
grapb eomp,a i . -!-A . On. }Jondlay th. "16th da, o,f Jul: -~
~ What bappeoed n•ex ., ! - - . T 1
e co1 .n1,·· rcial t · l: graph eom.p ,a oi s
all at once ,d i d our ri · h t to rep-r . _ ·t tbeir , ·m p,l oye _ and el Jmed
.· hat tbe., had no knowledge that we di.d ~ present them1,i
Q. Tb.is bill of grie·v ances was pre~e,n t d iu ..riti.ng to these va.rions
-~legrJiph -eompanie,s and_yon rece-i1 ed ·the,ir responses, I s11ppose :t ,_ · .
Werec~l,.. d.nor,esilon~ -fn.Jm th ~W :,t ern Uuion.Coo1pany · r .•.Eek ·r t,
tb.e gene·ra) manag ·rof the Westet'n ·u n:.,on. T, ·1. graph Company,, a· the
time we presented fhe w1i ten petition, cleuied our right to .rep.r esent
the employ,s 0 that eomrpan.,·,, or ·ai,d that ne ba.d. no ·k n.owle.d ge t.hat.
we did repre en.t t'hem, and . h .i1 e·d o treat .ith us at an.
Q.• T,o what ti nt did you actuall:r repre · ·o.t a that im,e the m~
p,lo es of the We ~tern .. nioo T,elegra11h Company _·- A~ ·. e represent d,
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think·, about 90 per ee t. oft · .e · ..

Q. Did Mr.. Eckert ma'ke t _..at,denial i.n a written communieat1on to
your board t- ·. jl, ..·o; verball,J.,
Q. Your eomwittee wai.t .d upon him and pre ented your written petition and .he ·m ad,e .a v,e r·bal. repiJ -Ajl, .A ,·erbal rep·ly.
Q. w ·a s t ere an_y otb --r response m:ade to vour petition f-A . No
other response bate·ve:r. We ba;ve re.ceit'ed no communieat1on from
·t hat company inee. ·t h . d y of th ~ .trik :.
Q. Tbeu, do I nod.e·r stand you to sa, that t.be pre .· entation of this.w·ritrten 001 m.n!)i cation. by your comrrdttee to ·rr. --'c k -rt a' ., the general manage.r of tbe. es.tern U 'ion Tele,g rap~ Co1npany, and hi_ , .. ·r bal ! '. ·ponse
that, you did not repr ent the ~mpiloJ", so . ha·t oompa.ny, ended ,y our
com.muniea-f.,o n with hhn or witb flny officer o-t" t ·at company prio·r to the
oom·mencement of the s.tr-"'ke and from ·tha.,t tim .- unt I ow __ · On the
morning of the strike· I ent ;_ Jett~r to l\lr. Eck rt ,ca'Jhng bis att,en ion
to the fact that ·we bad receiv tl no Ii!ply to ou .- co1n·1nunica:tiou., aod,..
. bile I aid not ta.· - thAt:: trike was, likely· to ~eeur., 'he rrmigllt 1ofe·r
from . be ·tone ,o,f my letter t]iat :tie - a thing wa lik ly to follow·.. 'T he
1.etter as cone bed in v, ry r sp etfuJ. ter1u.s
Q. ~ave you · , e-op,:r of tha.t Jette·r ! - .- . ~ _, I ha· e not
Q, H.as .anything·.P~S.- d bet . een the company and yonr committee·
since fhat le'tte:. was , ent bv· yott •- ·. • ,_ oth·i n,g whate:\'""e.r..
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Q. Tbat, yon say, ·w as ~n the mornin;g of the ~y on which the s,t rike
was.ord,ered 7-A. Yes,, s,i·r ·.
Q,. What day was. tb.at1-At The 19th day of July..
B··.· :u·r PUGH:
Q~ The telegraph e-0,:m·pan,- , ,erased to recogoize your or,g anizatioo O·r
its anthori.t .- A.. It refused to :recognize the ri.g ht of the exeeutive
board of th.·. B. ro-tberhood of Tel ·.· .-· ·pbers to present g.rievancea o·r to
apeak i·n b ..bait" of tbe ·e:m:ployes. oft.he W •e stern Union Company.
Q. Was it a refu ·-al to, recognise your organ.ization,. or ouly a refusal
to recognize the anthori'ty of your ex,e c~tiv·e. b~ard to represent the em-_
ploy~s of · b .- ,vestern Un.i on Compain.y !-A.. In preseu.tiug tbe bill of
grie·vances. not'biog ·wa _· said partico arly abo·u t the o,r gauization. ·,: r.
Eclter,t m ·rely stated that he deni,e dourrigbtto · peakfo·r the ,employ~a
of' ·the. com paDJ'~
- B.y th.e :.HAIRMAN':
Q,. T ·e right of you·r committee 1-A Y,es, sir..
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PU,G H :

Q . 'Did yon. e ·hi.bit any al1thority, or DDderta.ke,1in any way,, ·t o sa~
isfy· 1!-lr·,! Eckert o,f yo~ur al'~ tbor·i~y·!~A.. The :I?eti.:aon ,tee11 was wntten
on a 1.e tter-bea.d bearing tbe seal of the OF'gan1zat1on.
Q~ Di.d. yo 1 furnis·h. •. uy p,r oof of th.e actjon ot the diffi ·. ren.t lodges t A. 'N ,o, , e did not;. that ·w as very well known ..
Q. Tbe telegra.p h co-mpany h.a.d no evidence from :,011,. except yu~
0"1'D statement: ., as to yo,u r authority ~A. · ·o ;, they acknowledged, O·f
course, t·hat. tbe,y had a general 'know'ledge·t-bat tbe organizatiou e . ·isted,
and that their empluyes. belonged to i . ~
By the CBAJBMA..N'::
Q~. I ,see that you comme.nce th'is d.oonm,e nt in tb•is way: "The un,d e·r ..
ligned, 'the ex:ecnti.v ·.· board oi 'the Brother·h ood of 'T,e J~p·p'he_rs oil ·th.e
·u nited Sta.tes and Canada, _• • • re .pectfolly petition," &e.., .and,
,a fter s.ta.ting the. substan.e e of your ~tition, t:b.e document is. signed ·b y
-the mem.b ers of' yonr oomn ·ittee o~ board~A.. ~ea, sir; and. three o,f
·tbo&e gentlemen sigo.i n.g were empl.oym of' ·t be Weste.r n Union Oo,m ..
pany.
INDlVlD UAL COM:Pl,_A.INT,S n ·1 sa·EG..&RDBD n ·y THR OOJCPANY..
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Q. ·no yon know whether any cemp.J.·int , bad been m.ade to, the eom~
pa:ny by individna.l e:mployes ail to the inadequae:y of the ·COmpensatioa.
pa"d ·b y the eo·mpan1,y to its operators '! -Ai Frt,q_u eutly; ·p eti.tions h.a ve,
been presented frequently and no at:tention has been pai,d to ·t hem.
Q~ P@titione: ft.om wbom, and in · ·hat, ,ca,1>acity 1- ·· From diffe,rent
..1.-......:....1
opera tors, 1.n ul
vaaua11~Y ~
Q. What attention ,did those :petitio-us r,ee ·_ i.ve ·f.- A.. .A s & gen.eral
thing t.he,y received 110 attention wh.ate·v er
p
· ..
o·i''ot
'" ffn
f'-u·1·f)1111·n~o
- B,'ti,n,ili'i
-'··u .non
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lP-iAD"fl,
Q. U. ..p-· o. D. t'ha·t
l•.i . .
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l• crm
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e!WiNr,·d
·t o the ·f tbrts wh.ich ·h ave been ·m.a de from time to, ·t ime from 1870
~ d'"
d.own tot. h. e present, b-.y 10
. 1 -.. "d uaI. ,emp·1oy . sof t b-.e company or b_y aeve ·.· 1, of them in combination, s,imply as. employes of the company, an.d
no,t acting or pretendin,g to a.et · or a.n.J outside organization,, to ,obtatn
increased pay.•- · . I believ.e there has been a noi'versa·1 oom.plain·a; o.o
··,
t·tJ.1e part of· the operators as 1nd. 1· vi. d..- ua1-· s to th-. e o.m-..- cers of the
company
't_h at ·t b -: y did n,o t ,co,nside-r ·t hat they wer-e rece1iving p,rope·r ·p ay for their
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BELATI,Q'NS B'E TWEE,N LA.BOB A ·, D C.A Pl'T AL~

ser~ioos, a·n d petitions ba,ve frequently been sen to the officers of the
eompa.n r, but ha, e not receiv·ed any attention. Of eou.r se the wages of
opera.tors have in ma-n y iostanees been. ineooMed.; bu·t a corresptl'nding
dec·r e·a se. has been · · :a de ·i n the wages of o~hers. For instance,, they
·won1tl increase on.e man'; ' salary 15 a month, and tb.-y wonl,d take that
m.uch oil the salary of' anotll1 r . lL that way·they have m.1 lnaged to sa·t 'iSfJ" ,so-me of the, operator!ii, but not to ,satisfy tlie 11u1jority.. Tbey ·would
take _
,ea o,fr a high ~lari,e d man and give ~t :le~ a low salaried man; thus,.
for the time, satisiying .some, but not satisfyin_g tbem permanently.
PAY NOT REG . LA.TE,D BY WILL ALO·,·-.

,Q. Do _y ou mea/n that tha.t has been done irres11ective, of the relati.ve
.s.kHI o,f the two e.m p,1,oyes eoneerued-the com.peu.sation of one being
-d oe'ked .aiod that or· the othtl l" increased,_ . - . . Yes, s:ir.. S,k Ul does no·t
go for 'mo.eh.. Of course it coo · ts for somethin." , bn-t tb.e-,e is a great

d ,e al of favoritism generally.. The most skillful operato,r is not ,atw•y,a.
pa1d the highest .ate..
Q Do you mean in ·t he same office f-A.. In the same office.
Q~ What-is, tbe rule in that. respect '! -A..,. Well!, I believe that .ea srnle
tbe. more 1
skil1:fol operatom are better pa'id, but th ·.·t rule .·1 often diB,re-garded~

.· ..·• Then. ,~ a ml
. . I .·e-.· '"'kiri d(IA'1
co
·.. · un·t t-.A. ·o··. h.-, y-:-~·e·s·
Q
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Q,. Have y ,o n reason to suppose ·t hat this favorit-is;m of w. bieh you eom•
pla.i n i.s kn.own t,o the genera·1 u1anagers ,o f tbe company, or is, it the re·..

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sult of power in the superintendents. or· the ·m en w·b o, hav,e control of
:p articular departments T- ·... To a -certain e.xteo't it is th•e work ,o f loeal
offi.oers~. StDI, I think the ma,uagers are pretty well aware of th,e gen..
,era.I condition of atrairs..
Q.. H~ve you ,a ny rea .on
ag,e r of the oo,m pany, · as
kind f-A. I think ·he bas
fact , oom.pla.io'ta ba,~e bee·n

of them.

to b ~tiev,e that Mr.. Eekert, ·t he ,g eneral man.know . ,o tbe e -iste · oo ot· a.b·oses, of this
h,ad every facility for Boding· them ont; ,D
so freq,u eut. tha.t he could u.ot help knowing

Q. O'f'er what ,sec.tions of the OOO'D try ·b av·e those eomp:laintB been,
made.'I -A.. Tbe complaints a.re generaL
·· weaD 11_.··-ba· t_ t·h···
-· , -~ tr '" ·t -···rt··· I!': -. ·.-'·:.t··--.··h·-..
Q " D..· o. . ·. on
._ o.e··.·,oom,p1a.1n
1s, o dLvon b m ave 1,....,,....
~n au,y ,
mo'r e justly and ge.u ·· nt'!ly mad . with regard to t' e. Wester Un:io-n than
to otb :r t elegraph -oompanies !-,Aii Y,s, ,sir ; I think they hav . 'The,
op-p osition com·panies, a , a general thing, endeavor to e.ngage the bes,t ,
,~perator,s _;, in fact, t.bey· a.re comp )led 1o doso in order to, -co,m1Jete ·w.·th
tl1e Western Union,1wbich brt ' better facilities for handlin,g bosines .:
tboin fbe otbe·r companies have~ These various, inveoti,on ·.. o,f which I
bal" i _
p ok ·. o gt,r :. th · We;·t~rn Union great,e r· faci1ities,; ,so that the
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ot-h er-compao·es, in order -to ,c e,m p . te 1S uccessfnl _y,. must neooesar.H,y have
!·he bes -ski:tl,.and tberefore tbey en11lloy the 'best operatoris a:od pay them
bett .· ·r c..~on1pensation ..· a general ruh~~
Q. ·here is no wrrv in whie.b the o h,e r companies.can avail th emselves
o-f the h1er ~a. ·ed r.~-cilitie resulUng frow those in·ventio:u.s., I 1Str1.ppose IA .. They l1at e not been a,ble to , v. ii tbemselves of the qua.drop) , bot
p.,o. I ' .num·be
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,com1lanies..
Q. Do I unders,taud. J 'OU to say· that as a rule tb.e telegrap.hic faeiJi..,
ties of the W,e stern ·u ·o ion - ,e l gr p,k Company, so far as ~egard.s, inm>
ventions an.d ·the ap,plication of electricity for the tranamitt.io.g of intel..

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

113

R~L&TIONS BETWEE.! f LABOR A.N'D CA.PIT.AL

U. gence, a·1-e better .ban those of any other eonlpany , · A - Tb . y ce·r t,a inly are.
Qi -In,rention. 'bas ·m ade greater J?ro.gress th~ th.an,_ in an.Y of ~he
otb ~r uom.pauies ! -.A . We:u, the W ,e stern Uo1,o o has bought the 10tentions.
Q.. Tha.t e.omp~ny, fben, eontro1s the most a.d,'lloced inventions. in
t~legrapby to the ex,clu ·- ion of mottt of the 0th.er ·C01Dpan.ies '- --A.. Yes,
1

1r.

Q·. So that the l\ esteru Union Compa.ny can ·render ·telegra:phi·<-.- -erv;a
ice ,1·1th ,a lower rate o:f skill, em plos·e d at .a :1ow·e r ·r ate of co · Jlensat ioo
than ·t he other co.1npanies. can an,d a;t t e same time do eq,nal1y well for
the. Jlublic Y-A, Yes, ··ir~
Q. Ancl i is only by empl0;ying ·_ l)erio,r skill that t)le other eompanie~ a:r•e abl e to compete at all.t· A That is tb.e case..
_
Q•. A .r e the otber oompanie1 abh~ to obtaiu tliis extra sk·ill ·w i.tbont
p.Ayiug 'h igher w11goo ·t A. No; the other oom:11anies do usually pay
'hi,o,ber wages.. T.bei.r average pay is better than thiat
tbe \V'e ·teru
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or

Un.ion ..

Q.. S.o,,, necessarny, a,n . ·i·ocr-ease of tile compensation pa:i d b3. tbe
·w estern Uoiou C,o m1•any would eom.pel n increase by the othe.;r oom.panies ~A. Ye ., f.nr"
Q. In regard to tbese complaints made blr individual ,o perators to
tbe compan·r , \l 1th the excep,tion of t~.esc c~an,ges of com1pensation
w·b1eh 1ou speak of, hav·e you. kn-own o,f anJ" favorable resuou.se being
macle ·to sueh complaints !-A.. -•. 0,1air.
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Q. Upon 1\'"hat ground., then., has tbe ·<".O·m pa~, based 'its refusal to
:r-e1ieve the grievances co.mpl ined of'\\·hen a,pplieation h.a s been m.ade
directly upon that snl)j.· ct. It seems that the ·w e te·r n Uni-on declined
to .a ccede -to tbe a.p,plication mad.e 'b. . · y·o or committee upon tbe ground
th.at ,).mOU ,d id DO·t represent their emp]oyes. N,o·w upon w'h at grou1.ul do
they n.fu,-._· to consider .a pplications ubich a .. · .made di.rectl:3· b.l"' their
em1ployes ·f. . . . . A .. They gtve various ,exenses, T·bey s-. ~- tbatthey· cauoot
afford. to, pay 1nore_, a:.n.~ V·e ry often. the.i · make no response what , •er·;
they ·pmt the nutn off.. Freq·nenfly an. application for an increase is. m.adc
and is n.e:v er beard of a.gain~
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OPEBJtT'O RS PUNISHED Fon. ASX:IXG .. OBE P 'A Y.

Q.. .Hav.-e y on known any ill regolts. to ope:rators from makin,g sucb
applica;tioos,, or any iusuwce,e w.here moo. have mad~ themeelv-t's ,conspicuous. in. asking for an iuerease of com ··ensation ai1<l where th -· y ha, . been d.i · riminated a-gain.st on that a,c count f:-A~ ·y es, sir;. a.n,),·t h:ing
10 tile sba;pe of getting up petitions of that l\1nd has resulted di, as1

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trotu~lv to th· . ringJead.ers~
Q.. , o,w do yon m•. nn di,. -,_St.,f7onsl . t Eave t-he.y been di -· missed f1~m
. or h a,~·e t hey i...,...
;il!I,
.m1'uate
..
d. a,ga1ns.t
.. w.'h1,e
"' 11 10
•
th·,e serv.1ee,_
lJt:ell
•di
· scn·
t b· c ~cn•y.
. . .. , t·-~h,· eJ., . b~·u e1
· -~_,th.e-r· di-·• - · · d f-·rom
·
th
·_-,..100
.. ·-· oi:
·
l ·" """ I- A • y-e• ,, 8b
. _gi e, be
, ··e·._
1sm1sse
_· e·· ,s··er,
d.iscrimiuated ag.n.ins.t in many· ways. For ins,t ance, their· ,c llances fo1·
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promoti.o n would he greatly le&sen.e d ; they wou'ld be looked u'lion as
"' 111,g it·· tors:."
Q. Is th1ere any ditli.oulty in nen diseha~ for 1such reasons, obtain-ing .·-·m·p lo:y -·· ent e'lsewhe1-e .- A. Yes, sir; their uames are placed on
the black-Ii, t a.nd manag,ers. alJI o\"er the country are notified of it..
Q.. How do yon · now that - A. ·w hen hey app]y for situations the

·manage.ffl tell tbem tha.t tb~y a~_o~ ·!he, 'black_.- liS't,

Jfor· instance,

a
·nu•n .applies for a ,~1.tnation in I? hiladelp·m.a, and if he is obnoxious in
8 C

(5 LAW,)

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

1.14

REL,AT10,N s BETWEEN LA.BO.a

n~I c.a.·P JTAL,

that respect tb.e. mainag,er :in New York will te'1,egraph back to the
managc1· in PhHadel]'thia that that m:an is uot a proper peEBOD to emnJ,n,,v

v.,"
,Q , If a man was discharged 11im·p1,-~ because he wanted proper pa.y., or
more pa), for h,is serriees, that would ·be ono ·t bing; but if he wa.s dis ..
uha.r ge,tl by rea _. ou of any impl'IOp.r.i. ty o'f cooduet o,n bi . part or because
of inc~ompt!tency, that of course wou]d be anotber bint( !·- At C rtain ly .
,Q. ·o,,·, do you n1eau tu0 say t'bat a m:an would be Jllace-d un the bla _k·J;"

1

Us't aud di.s crim1ina1:ed a,g.a.i.n . t, be bein,? a .r:ood and 1.;·kiHed operator, only
becanse be w.auted mor•e paJ 1-A The,y gi,"',e otber reu .011 ·, ot.her pre-

tex L"', of eonr ·e, than. tlie. fact tbat a. m,,n has a k.ed. for an incr,e ase of
w·ages or· has im ;ti.gat,ed app:Ueationa of that kind-tbey give o.th.e r reasons; but it is a well-kno·wn. i·aet,Iand it is the general bellef of the
op ··f'ator th.at there is .a sy tern of black-li ting operators tor entering
i11to mo,. ement . of tha,t k ·nd .
Q. D oes anybody w·bo 'i . ac•.1uaintetl with the person or persons disch.arged ·in sue· eases know of ai1y ,other reaeon for th,eir discharge t·h an
tbe mere fa,·c't of their a's king for a iuereas . of wages t-A. As I have
already stated., ·the company gene·rally manag,e to find 0 ther p•rete ·ts for
such d i,s charges, other re·u o,ns,
Q. Other reasons wbi.ch. are made pnbli.c t-A.. No; they are ot
made poblie•.
Q~ \Vell,1a.re there .a.ny· other re.a ·. one asengned. at all1-A. W ,eH .. the
managers indiser,eetly boas't of them tbemsell'es; I mean the local mana
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By .Mr.
'I!,

GEORGE ..

Q.~ You. -ay· that local managers ~:om,eti'm,es i'ndiscreetlyboast ofhav~
in.g· turuec:1 out a man ·because be bas asked for more pay,,or beeause 'h e
.
is, as, t be:, say, an '' ;i_gi ta tor P-A. •,.es, sir~
Q_ Ia it p,t t.tty weir unllerstoo•l among the. operator.a that a ma·n ·.. ho
ma. keij, 'hhnself a,eti \"e h1 .g ettiug up nn. agitation for increase of pay ,oc..
,cHpi.es a dangerou .. positi.on with 'r . fl!rence to tbe compan.y ! -•A~ lt is.
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Q. Th n theri is -a r,e luctane : to do anyfhing of th~1·t kind, I s.up-.

pose~-A. Yes, sir; there l1as be, n such a .feeling. S.ince the -trike of

1870 ,~a.r ioos mo1..-ements ba,~e beens :t ou foo·t for tb - org.a rdzation of
the operators., but n,early aU of tbem b~lv·e falleu tb:rough because. of in;>
timidation by th@. offl.c ials of the oom,p,aoy, particularly the Joo~1.l otllc1at .
By the CHAIRMAN·~
Q~ Can l~ou recall, so as to, s:tat,e it to the .oom.mittee, any d.efinite in""
stat1ce where this black~J:i, ting that yon speak of has taken plac-e. !-A.

No ; Hot at presentii
Q. Yon merely s11eak o_
f it., then, a .. a m,a tter of common. under,stand.ing among the ope·r ntors ! A. Yes, sir.
Q.. Tl1ere must be ,operators who• are or wbo ,suppose themselv .s to
be _vi,etin1s of that S) ,stem, if' the s.yst,e.m exi .,t s,·f.- :-A, Y'e s, sir..
_
Q. I thiuk if :rou. .are able to prove s.pec.ifi,c instances whic·h would.
!~·!a!Jli ·· h _th~ _xi, ,t nee o~ such a, praeti~ce_~n. th~ ~-.a~t ~f-~be ,c ompauy2
it migbt be.·well Jo,r you to do so.-A1 I have not any e.v idenee th,a t l
ea1i give m Yself on that 11oint. I merely say th.at it ·i . the general impr,essiou and the general heh· f ' ernong th · operators that snc.h a stat :.
of ,aff'a irs doei~;, ·exist.. Pe1.baps some of the other witnesses may he ahle
to gh:e yon s1 .· cdie :i.nsta ces..
OP BA}lORS DllSMIS ·ED FO . · J ,O,INING 'l"BE B'B OTDEBHO0D.

Q~ Yon ca,n see that that ls a very serione ,eb.a rge to mak,e ~ga~nst the

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

com·pan.y. It ·is a charge tbat i . - made by o·· her Jabor organization,,
against employ, rs,. as tL ··., commitb .. ·, know,,,· ·n d ·i f' . ueb a p·ractice ex-,
ists, i.t i.s a ,rery pertinen.t faet to the in,l'e,s tiga:t.ion ·w·b1cb ·\Te have in
baud.. Tberetbre,. if tl\ideoee of it can be produced, I :h ave no d.oo.b t
th.at the comm.ittoo ·will be ,.- ery· glad to ·receive it-e,'T- idence that there
is an or,g an·i zed ·· . 11rpose on the :J:Nlrt of th!s company or on. the part. of
oth .· r org.• nizations of capital, to 11re ,en. , the employment of' ·men o,tberwise eompe·t ent and •. ·orthy of eiuployment, shnp·13 an~l .sole,ly becan•.·.·_,
tbey· try to ,g et wbat tbey regard '' l fwr co:m(J n.~a.tto ·. for· their 1.a.bor.
If this 11racti.,ee of black-list.iug ex.ists sbonld Ji'k e to see it e.xistenoe
es.tabli.shed .a.s a f--,et.-• ·• W,en, I can gi,··e ~~ou some instances of' men
dis mis, ed. for jo,iuioo- our organization 1,re, i.ous to this "tI"ike. M·r~ltor
alr ·r wa . diiSm.issed bl 't•be PeunsyJ,·auia .R ailroad Co·m pany at Phil•
de:l,pbia. for joining the. organization. He is at p resen't
n .e troil He
was di.s missed previous to the s rikeil
·Q. What. motive eould the •·eDUKJlvania Railroad Company have to
d:ismiss him beca.11sie 'be joined your organizati.oo 1---- .· • Because. tbey
feared th.at the· or.~ anization was likely t,o become a power oo that road
an(! tba·t ·we would. J)robably strik.e.
Q. ·w bat.is your ant h o.ri t.y for stating that that o-pera'tor w·a s.d ·s · issed
for· t.b at eause ! - ·.. They· so ,stated to b'im ex.pressl,y at the time.
Q. Aud be ~o intormed you T-A1 Yes, sir. H ,e appli,ed to us,;for as.,
msta:nce, ·\17bich he reeeived~ e obta-in.ed anotheT .situa.tio111·i n t.be ·. :.rv-•
.ioo of the same eompauy at. Jersey CitJr, bot two or three da3~s afiterwar,d s h . wa,s dismi , sed aga.io by the c ief o,p era.tor, ·w ho ga,,,e as a re,asnn ·t hat b,e had just lear11ed of the fo,rmer dismissal at Philadel(lbia. I
can give you auo1:ber instance. Mr- Z"ieigler, of the Pit sburgb.,,Fo,r t
w ·a y.ne and Cb.'ica:go Railroad, was ,dischar,--ed at Crestline for joinin.g
the organi.za,tion. H·e is at present i.n Clev,eland. The We . ter.n Union
Telet,,TJapb.Comp .·nJ dismissed..ft.l'."e members of the o.rga.nizatio.o. in Saint
i,ouis in Deoem be·r las.t, four of them ladies, for joiDJng the organizaI

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tion, and gave nu otb . r rea .ons-.

Q. . Did they aire that reason !-A. Yes, sir; tbey gave tha·t reason,
The J,ooal man. ge.r, J.Ir., B:r own,, told th ·· operators that they w,ere dis~
·• I fu·, r J:Ol
'" . ·1·•·ng t·h· .·· or.gan1za
"' t·_-1011.
mu~se,
Q.. B ,a d Jrou·r o,rganiz. ·tion a·t tbat tim,e ever p·r esented any list o1
grieva,n ces ,o r complaints ~----A. : ., one whatever·..
Q. Do yO'n mean that t.be "W estero Union Tel.egrap.h Co,mpany or tb.ese
other employers opened. aD aggressive w.a riam u:p on yo,n r organization
before you bad made..any complaints as an orgari.iza.tion to them •- ·_ .,.
Y PS, rS ir; i ·h ey did, with the ·v iew ,o f breaking up the organization at
Saint Louis, in the beli.ef that ·i f they could s.neceed there they would be
eqttally su.ooessful a . other poiuts. We dem.a.nded ·th.at]those :ti'v.:·oper. .
ator,. should be rein·'"t.a.ted, and th.ey were reinstated. ·w hat the reasons for reinstating them w,e n I do not kno·w.
Q~ B:9:1t they w re reiosta,t ed in th.ei.r old positions '! -A. Yes,. sir; b nt
not until abon.-t one month afterward .• ..
Qi" Were th~y ,gi ,~·e n any co·m pensation for their los . of time f A.
No,,. r&ir.
·Q , Are they stiU · - tbe. em.pl()y or the oom,p a,n y tbere t-A~. '.rhey are
on .s trike at present.
Q. How Jong is it since ·this or:ganizat.ion of operators · as formed f A . It was fo:r wed in lfar,c h of last Jear, at the ,c ouvention at Pittsbn.rgb.
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OllJEOrs OP rBE BRO~BERB,OOD~

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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A .. It ·was a1n1onn,ced that the organi'zation wa · t,o be for proteclive
po·r _p otJes-to ·1>•rotec the interests, of the craft•.
Q.. Until 'tba.t tim _, bad there been. ,a nything like a brothei·hood ,o r
Jabot nni,on of t l.egraphers in tbe country T-A. · ,es, sir;, th.er-e had
been. .s e,,.eral or,ganizatioo ·- prior to ,hat time, but they n.ev-e r usumed.
,,.ery large Jlroportions,, with th.e exception ,of tbe one in J.870. There
as a trike i.n 1870, 1 ·bich lasted .a bout four day,s .
t ·w .at1i ·m ad,e by the
Telegraphic Pro.t. -.· il"e Lea_gue~
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,Q,t \\ho w~s ·tbe cbiefemp.J.,oye·r of t,elegrapbic labor· at that time!

1-

A .. The We ,tern u · o ion. T,e legra.pb Compauyj
Q. Then it fix.e,d the p,r i,<.~ of such ·1abor a·- that tim•e, .as itdoe_s.no,w 'f -

A. \~ es, siril

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·Q. What p,roportion of tbe t e]e,graphe:rs of the country are fe·.ma.les ! 1

A .. Pro.b ab?y about one-twentieth.. Po~sibl.r that is ·. Ii tle too higb an
t!s.t-i 10 .· te, bot I ha,.e not stati,stic ·. · to show the rea1 number~.
Q~ .H ow d.o es the rmy of ,sue.h operators compare. with ·t he pay of the.

male operato,re for 'like service 1-A. It is m, ..e.b le88.
~ How,·Imuch
t· .·-.-.
A. .. ,···..ho
·. : · 1,'
nt· ·''2·~
c·en• ·1l··"q.
e·
: . . ''·t ~ -...,. per
· ..
Q
Q. Do yon m,e an ·t h.a t for the same. actual ir~erviee-rend ered ·t he woman
is 1,aid a;botl't 2·5 per centil les th.an the· man. I-A~ Ye .· si:r.
Q. . Why i.s th.at : -A. Th.at is something that w - caunot accowi.t for..
We cannot see a.11_y reason io it
Q. You mean th.at wher-e there ar,e two operators ittin p · side by Hide,
and rloiog just the same, work, one oft.hem, a man, gets 8100 a mont.b,,
w "ile th · other, a wo,man, , ·t s bu·t 17ii 1'- .A . :es, si.r; I tbiuk 2-5· per
cent. j,- a low ,e.s ti'mste of the difference bet-ween be ra-tes. of pay of the
toale, and the female ope,r.atorrs. The diitlerence p·r obably is 35 ·p er -cent~
Q . lla e. ,yo11 made an~ ,o omJlhdn · about th.at in yonr hUI o·f gri.e vanees ! - ··. ·e··_ ·, sir. We ba'Ve demanded equal pay for equal 'ft"ork.
Q.. .A , a. rttle, ·w·bat i . the :r ela,t iv•e grade of e ·p aeit.l", 'iu.te. l :· .tua'lly
anJ pby:s.ie.a hl, of t1te telegraph operator as compa,red "itb other cbt ,; s.
of worker ~-A. I don't kno ' positiv Jy·,. bllt I believe tb. __ t intelleetu_a11y the 011erators, a~ probably snpe-r ior to ·most oth ~r classes of work-•
i ng 11eople; ph,y sitally t bey .are 11robably inferior:.
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NA..T URE O·F T~E OPE <ATOR1S WOBK\

Q~ w ·h1t:t i_ th . charnct .r of thel.r "·ork in r,espeet of its exactions on
tit · 11ihysica] ·f1·=iim•e 1'- A ... It is 1:-e~; e-:xltausti:u.g o_r·t.. Th,er. • o.re v ry

... f wold m:en ·in t'be te'legrapb business. If yon go into any of the larg,e
offices you will b · struck wi.t ···that ·l a.ct.
Cl . Do . -o II tn . an that the te e grdJtbe·r clies

,g -~ -A- Y,es,1 a.i r;
, eith.er ·b e dies Joung or be is ,eomp -lied to quit the busiuess. in onleE to
s&¥ ~~ h·i•· bealth . .
·Q~ Do ,you think that the telegraph operator e.:.-.·n endnr,e the labor of
ht ·. calling as we·l t as th·.· a'\"erage p·r ofessional man -A.. :N o ; do not
1011·:

t'l1 ink t ba:t ·be can wurk as ma:ni· hours daib.~,.
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_ Q. · .- ·n1 h@ la~J"t as ·m auy y a·1 T-:A. l think: uot...
_
Q. H·ow does he •compure · "ith fbe railroad em11lo~e .in th.a t res,p eet I.A... He is, s'horte-ir lived.
-~· Q You think that tbe -e ·actions &1ade upon him bylais ,c alling 1e-ally

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BELATIO'NS .BETWBEB LA.BOB AND CA'PITALi.

shorten his life, even as compaied 'With t:he life. of men io employments

atte·nded ·w ith ph:y sieal d;a nge.r , 1Sn.c'b a·s rail.roa-ding · - .A . 'f hink so.. .
·Q. Inte·nectual1y how do telegraph operators compare with railroad -:
enginee~,. oooduotors, and. tmiomw !-A. I tbink th . t intelleetually
the. .· are superior..
.~
·Q.. ~ ow do they com1,are·as a whele, in your judgment,, wi.th t e me ,_ :
that are ·m ad. e i11tolawye1""S,aud ,d ootors, and mioisters,an.d .me·reh&Htsl · ,
-A,, Tbey are pro'b abli not equal to t:b at class.
_
... ;
Q. I mea11 originall,y , primariJy 'I -~ Well, . don't know·.. They ,a re,·
proba.b ly ~ual in that,wa)T·
Q. Have you any data 'Wh·i eh. will enable yon to ,m ake any defi.o ·i i,e
statement as to the average life of telegrapb operators iu the bo. siuess t
-A,. N:o,, I am ot abl,e to fomi.sh a11y defiroite, ioformatiou upon that
poi It.
-.
Q. Ha,v,e yon ever Ilea.rd tha·t question d·isenased ~A.. .N,o, mr..
By llr,, Puo:e: :·
Q~ Is i.t..not a fact that there 11as. been . great, increase in the demand
·for·'thi~ kind of iabor ,sinc.~ 1s.7,o !-A. Yes, sir.
Q. Bot., f!O't ·. 1thstand'iog the increased demand,, yoo say th.ere has
been, a redoct~on of Jlay · A. Yes, sir; but there hu.been also a .g:r eat
increase in t.he pnxluction of s'ki'Jletl ,labo:r of' ·t his kh1d ; tber-e are a
~ i man,y ·_ o .· ·p ersons lemming· the business, :no,w ; the umber, has
probably doubled s,1000 18,fl'.
_ ··
Q.. How do you account for the fact that the nom'b er h,a s doubled
while tbe pay has d.eereasefl T-A. · am :oot ab.It, to acc11on·:- for it·, 011
l.ess it is, attribnt'a..ble to the fact tba ,y oung men are extr -me]y anxious ,
to ·n~a· e. in wo·r k of thiH .ind, wbic~ t_~f'Y ma:r tb1:nk .is more respect-·
able than some ,of the other trad~
Kr.. GEORGE. lt i . asier,. too~ It i,s io. the shade.
Tbe WITNESS: Yes; it 18 in the ,shade.
B:v,.,, Mr. PUGH :
Q. H .a v,e not these ,· .tr.i kes g,r o.w n out of'tb.e existence ,of labor uniousth.e incr~ased ()O"!·e r of labor u.11iou.s, the combined pow,e r of ,_ · bor TA.ct I believe tlJat 'i . true
Q,. Those or.g anization have been u.sed as, ,a, mod,e of self-,protection
.&'D d defe~ by the \\"Or'kiugmen T~ A .. Ye ·. ,. sir; the· organizatione. are
all foriood. for tba.t pu11M>s - ... 11~defense.
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By )f'r. ,GEORGE1=
Q., You reside in Pittsburg·h !
' -.A . Yes, sir.

_Q.. Bo,w many· t,r!l .,g rapb o,pnators are there in. tbat ,e rrf-A. A'boot

150.

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Q.. Do yon. kuow most o,f tbe,m t-A. Yes, sir..
Q. ,Some of them are employed by' the ,r a't lroad,s and some by 't he tel~
egrmi.p h companies ·_. - A.. Yes, .·ir; bu a large maJorits of the operators
there ,a re commercial operat.urs.
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Q.. Are tb.e v generally yoon.g men, or men of famil.y·T-A. Generally·
3·ounf! m :n. P.robabls· about one-tbml of tbem are married. men.
Q. w ·bat :k i.nd o,f ·h ouses do th.e ·mattioo. men ltve i11 ! A. Teneme·n t
houses,.
__Q. _What rnnt do they p ,·y · f-A. A 'b ou.t , t20 a ,m ont_h , p,r obably., iu
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Ptttsborgh

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Q .. What sort of a .bot1s.e does. a man _
g et for that t-A. A laoose. o,f
four or :ii've ·roo1ns.
Q, AJI on the same door,,_ - .- ·. · o; separa·t e houses. Pitt~burgl1. is
not Yery wel s.np·p, ie.d ·,,·ith. tenement housek-not. so weJI suppli.ed aa
Pbiladelp.hia. o.r .. -e w York, or some 0th.e r ci.ties. .

Q,i What do you..mean b.. te.niement b.onsea ; b.ooses in b,Ioo·ks t-A~

-. es...

Q. Those am not-the kind you - aie in Pittsbnrgbt-A. No; separate.

'h ouses, tw,o to1·ie.s .h igh generaHy.
Q.. Are ti- er •comfo1~tabl . residen.ees !-A. Vies ..

Q.. Tbe__re is DO· co.mJ>laio·t about that t-A,1 ·_o.,. sir.
Q. : ,. ow d-o the youu,g men 1·l"e, ge·neral 1y ; do th.e_
y boa,r d !--:A,. They

boa.rd.

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Why is it. tliat so, small a nomber·,of the te-legrapherN are ma.;rried '!

- ..A.,. W,eH, they are. mostly yo1L g men~ I b@lie.ve•th t it wou'ld ·be n.l10.o~t ·i mpossible for tbe majority of tbe 01 to, keep, fam.i)Jes if tbe;y 11ad
th~·m
Q. Bo far as your obse·r,--atiou extends d.oe8 the sa ·. e p·roportion of
m ar.r ied autl s:in,g·)e ·. n. ,e ..is:t 1n t ··,e craft Ill ot-her }llae. ·_ ! -'"'\ ~ Yes, ,s ir .,

Q, Yon tbir1k that :niot ·n1ore than a-bont on,e.. third of the telegra Ilhers
of thiR country are married 1'·-

.~ . bout onemth.i'nl, I t biu.k .

Q. What ·would be th~ .a,Temgeage of the iiomarriedmen .-A.About
25 ,~ ~ars, I should presu:m,e~
Q . J's tbere an hulispos.i tion on the. }lart of tb,e ,~oung·m,e n eogag:e d. in
th.is bue1iuess to -• uter iuto the .wa.rr1.ed reh:,tion.!-A.. Well, I don.'t.
knnw,, That is a question ,c otdd not aus,,. er~
Q" Are there a1pr ecnnomical reasons why the~,T 1sbould. be rel11ctamt
to ·_· um-e. th.at " .J ation . -.A !j Nothing more tba.n t.heir inabil.ity· to bear
the e · .pen1e..
Q . ]}o, you think tJJat acts as a da.m pcr· on. ·t heir as,pirations, iu that
direction t-A. I belie,..,e i - does .
Q. -.· bat a.r e their 1nea11 . of self-improvement, such a- libraries, read
ing-roome, and that '"Ort of thiug ,-A. Do you meau ins. itu(tiOM .s upported by the telegraph oper~tors .:
Q. I m,e a,n iustitt1t!om1s of tbat kind. in the ,c ity of Pi·ttsiburg:·h and accessible to the tel,e.~ rapo.erst-A T' ·ere is. the ci.ty lib:ra1ry, a po blic
lib_ary, which i~, 011en to 'then1 Op~·raton;. a ·, a ,cla·.. ·. are rather st.tu.lions. Tbey buy a good. mau~· books and ·- imt the Ubnuies. a. good. d.e al.,
By Mr, ·C · -LL:
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Q" I unden,tood yott to say that the a¥era«e ~ -· of a telegraph oper..
ator· does not. enable him to su1>port a, family ..-A.• Y•es, s.i r; b:a·ve
sahl so
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Q.. Wb.a.t did you state 'that a,verage pa _· to l,e in the.ease of eommerge pay of' commercial operci •l telefltaph oper.J-tor. T:..._A. Tbe a-r,era_
.ators is about :54 a mootb.
1

Q. What is the or·t1inary rate· of board in Pittsbll~h I-A. Yoo can
get board there at anywhere from. $5 to- IS a. week; t1· a ·w eek i -• prob-•
ably a.bout t'be avera.ge.
Q. Do the ,.:am.e Jlri ces :x1s.t in ·_ ·ew · ·:,o rk: C1t.. , and in other cities~A~
thin.k th,e eost of livlng in Ne·w Yor'k is great r t-ban. .i n P'i.ttsbn~gb..
·Q,. You. ba,.- e -.poken of tbe d l'Jlle -· and oth . -r in.~·e ntions by w 1iclt the
e-arJacity of tl1e tele·g raph hnes ha,;e been increased. Can 5ou give 11s
.any id.e a, o:f what, tbe p.r oportio:nate cost of those i :· .· ent-ions is. to, the
'tele,gra:ph companies .~ -A. The cos.t of the in1rentions . ust be almos.t
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insi.g niflcant. ·

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Qi Therefo·re the proftt resnlting from the: ·inereased eapac1ty ·thus ob•
tained is aJ.m,ost entirel,y a net,p,r o·f iti--, · ,., Yes, ·. ir.i,
Q. ···· on hal"'e stated that, tbe Wll.ges of the ope·r ator h arve been re..
duced sinoo 187'0.;, that i.s a 1108.itl've :reduction,. as I uuderstan.d ! - Yes, sir. Tb re ha,~e been one o,r two general reductions, and t·hen
there ha1ve been th,ese sJ·,stern.u.tic reductions.
'Q , ·_ -bait: is-tbe p,o rcba -in g J><n~er o:f w agee,now as oom par-ed with th ·.
purchasing power in 1,8,7 01- : ; Tliat I ,Am not able to Htate.
Q. T·hen JOU cannot tell. u~, wuetber the telegraph op ·r ator can lil"e
better no,v upon hi,s present wa~,,., tbam be ,oo;tdd liv . in l _70 U}lOll the
·. a.ges tben paid -ll. :.o,, sir; 1 aw not- prepared to · us . _·e r tho.:,· ques
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Ir. ,Q . · OHGE;
Q~ I w:ill a,.,k you, a question wh.ic-h you need not aus,,v,e r onles •.· you.
th:ilik proper·: Bas, an,y d~hd,,e pO'i11t be.en. reached in tbe present strik,e
of the t,e legraph operato.rsl-A .. .No, sir _
; it has, resolved itself now into
a contest of enduiGoee.
By the CHA.JR.M AN:
Q.. Bo,. · many of the te.)1egraiph, ,operators. aM now out, of emplo,f ment
who '.fterie eo11)loyed before the stri e ,o cemTed t -.A .. 1th.ink there are
in the ne~gbborhood o,f Av:e thoosand.
Q. Does that nu·mbe.r em.brace the better skilled operatorst-A The
bette - kd.ietl.
·
By ·11r 0ALL:
Qi lou thi:ok the, rate of board ~-on ha·v e, :m entio~ed is a r :a onab_le
one, an.d that the average is about 1,7 a w·ook 1-- ,. Yes, sir; I think 17
i about tb.e aveTage,
B,y

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By - r.

GE,O K1GE:

hat includes lodging, I ,s uppo,s e 1-A. Yes, s·:r ; but the coSi't is
greater th ._ n that in -" ew York.

Q.

By !f·r~

CALL :

Q. Can.you give us an_y ·i dea oifthe a,,·lwa,ge·cost of clo·t hing ,.' Of eon~
yon_~sl'v e ~o dress wi b som~ degree o(neatness, in your e1n1lloy~~t.-A. ~ es, 811; I doo't know 't hat 1 can. gtve you the average coat of ,c lothing~
_ _
Q . Your tes:tim,ony, however is, that thepresen·L:rateo:f 'compensation
is enti'fl'e'Iy inadequate ior t-be eomforbibl -- support of the e-mplo)'es of
·he te·legr-Aph comp-any f-A~ "Ye·.- , ,s ir; entire) . - 1nad-equare;; It is 1m-..
·possible fo.r. _._n operator to save anything a·t the p,resent ra-te.s of pay
and live decently· .and respeetably.
Q1' I · ,lt true that.none oftb.c operators ever save ,_·n ytbingt~A. The~e
are ·some w.b o _are sa.vin_g , bot they are, those wbo work extra hours, in
,o rd.e r to put tbe.m ·-elves i a i1ositil e to save - littl-e, and they hn,~e to
work 1:,e ry 1oug hours "to do tha't .
,Q. B.a,~e yon. 1S tated 'the bours. of labor of the telegraph o_p erator,s t
A. I ·thi.n.k l ha ,e.. T · e railroad operators,avera,g e fully· twel,,. e bours a
d.ay, and in som.e places m1uch more, as ait stations where tberi are no
·o igbt operat.ors.. For oomme·r oial or•emtors i.n the larger, cities eijr'b t
bou1s is a day' ~,work and se,w-eu or se,-,en. anti a :h:alfhou.rs a, ni1rht'~,wo,r k.,
The average for most operators, takiHg th" wh.ole ,e ow1try throu.1.h_,, i ,
abont ten ho,u rs.
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RELATIO'N,8 :B ETWEEN' L,ABOB AND CAPITAL.

Q. I understand yori.'r testimony to be unequivocal th.at the, p~ · · .·.nt
rat.- of w:tge · do not aitord. 1:e~souable eompen .: ation to, the O'fterators
and are utt -rl.l inade-qnate tu the _upvort of a family ·. ,- .A ,oh, wen,
tl eJ n1i ght mnoag,P. t..o sret a loug, but it WO L1ld be in such a manner that
tb~y· wouJ,d not be at aH .saitis6ed.
Q ~ ,Q,f con se do not ·1neau strtr 11tion UYiD,J:~ bu._com fortab'l e li,·ing,
,vitb ,a fair ,share of t·b , nee.e s u1i . s autl e,o b1.fort ·• of life !'- ··. ~ The pay
1s i nadel} nate to affo:rd th ~l't.
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W A1:EllED '1"EPE -BAPH STOOK ..

BY the C·B 'lR An ;
Q. Is tl1 ~r, any otber matte'r tba Jou wou],d like to s: at- · to tb.e e0i1nnU t tee -- .A I th1n.k the questiou of tbe wateriD£' of the ~tock of these
lar,:ro enrpor.a t io·u s 1:s a matter· t'ha.t t h:i s eom1mitteP ought to in .-esti.gat.ei.,
Q u ·aTe :,.·ou ouJ facts i'11 i g.a rd to that suhjt-ct that l~,ou a.re fJre·pan1cl to ghte us r.. :. . , ~ l can on·l y gi,:- e you ~"'t'uerdl int7c1r1nation UJloU
l1·e '\Vest · rn niou T-~1e~r;1pb . 101J1 pan1· at the JJif ·s eut
tha · ~nb·ject.
t.1m.,e, ~i 1u~e i IJas a b~i.·b d tbe .- 1ntual .niuu, b··u~, 1 SU}lJJose, ~ ca11ital
~:tot~k o:f u.bout ,i:100,G()O,,OOO.. Soule uf 'tl1~ office.r·~ot,. tbe 1'Uat'lh _J Union
re ..~tUied iiu the con:rt8 of th,,· State a 1Ut1 e o .-er .a y a1~ ago-1 rlou". kho
the <.lxact ilirte--tbat tbe actual co~t of the , 1·utu~11 U nion Con1H1nyts
plant tli.tl not ,e.xce~l · •:a,aoO 000; but w·l1· n t he\'\ es'te.rn ·. 11ion absor·bed
t h:n t ~unlp~ uJ "N ~ ~J t 111 ·t h . · 11,i ta l stock of' tb -· ··.,. t!st ru nio11 Co.m ()air
·" ·a~ i1.lc11. a~ed $'l5,00U,0ll0~
flj 1-J~r\~c you aceetss to the. t,e tiniony th~t ~· ou 1efe:1. to _· - A . , It was
1,,rl11t-t~d in flJJu Hi!\\~·1,a.1• --n; a tbt ti:ml", but · arn uot abl · to ~i,~e tlH~ ,late
· ,a t th'i- IHO'm Au -. Th I tes.thno11l was b1'0ugh t out in 'the liti,:at1ou be· he cog of tb .
t. \Ve n the ,vestt'r11 ·niou and the .: llntual U uion..
...Ao 1~ 1itnn T·. 1e,b1T".d.ph ( ,010 1)au r pla11t ,ra s a'ho 1_ 8J, OOU,UUO~ ,,., hru
Ii.

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t in. \ "'e~teni •··. iou ab..:01·tied hut com)fauy th·, cai.fr al xtook w ill, n1 · ·rt!astd, _,Ja,,OOU,000.. The ·plant of tbe A tlanti~ uud . acHie ·T'tde -ra1ib
·. 01n11:-u1y, it is clahnetl bye 1,erts, 1,-e·r:_ectly fa1tn'li·· .r ,,,ith the co,i'!t of oon-•
,s tructing telegraJ)b bnes, did uot.t• ~t!·· . . tl 1u cus, i3,.000,000 but \\,hen that.
s,.r~t<in ·u. as absorb d the \\,,.e~,t.e:r u U1dou in.e r a .•ed its caJ)ital stock.
8'1-4,,000,000.. Tbat -. as llC · u the I niform r1 le ·' 1itli 'the, \\ ~stern Union
t ~o1n1>•a1., ,7 i . ~ ·bsorbin~ the othe= t,e,legrapb •OOrn1~4: .n·ie&. WI.Jer1e·,:er anJ:
of" 1 bt ~t:- t:ompan ~cs Laa -e bet·n ~•b ~or·b ed th~ e.ap,1ta. s ock of tbe"" . ~.· ern
Un~,0:11 has nso~sny he n iucre'as~d :a hou · iour tiu,- s. tho a1uoun.t o:t· the
ao uul t,ozst of the Hue a.bsor _ed.,
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By Mr. GEORGE1.
Q. l )hl th<!; 'l est, rn nion p,ay on t some .h ing for those i JUferen t
· omJla ni~·s , or did it' jntSt tu lie tl1 ·~1n in and i _ ue stock t--- · . The w ·es,tern · uiou genera.II, manag d to secure uo.utn•l of the otb ~r ,ooro11aui.
i, ,s itle. t h,e eor 11,01nes t h euise.,l v .s
Bl . Ir.. PUGH:·
Q~ · · 0 11. saiy tl1e \\: es,tern U. ion Te]egrap·h Com:J1<a11y have declared a
dl,·itleud ot· 7 JH.~:r oeut. ou tbe noo1inal tock..; bu'~when t-h at i .· n1ultiJ)hetl b,:r -I it ,viU be found that tbe r,e,a l div·i.deud upon the acttud ,caJ)i ..
tal s tc H;k is u bout 2'8 ll~r ,ceu t. t- .·. Ye,s, · i r·:; 28 J•t.L r ceu t. ; b11 t ·i t i . t ,l
b re rueiu be~d th· _ t bt\\· lup;e a so [).1id :cr1 p div itleud _ ; tso that t bey
ha ,,.e paid eYt!ll 1uu1■e tl1 n 2tj, per •oeo t .
By 1\Ir. 'G E0R,G E1..
Q.. l'VJutt are scri1l di\"idends -A. ,S tock di' .- ide.·ndB;; Tiley increased
the cap ita:1 t;'tock aud di·,,.1d.e d. the snrpln~ among t h ·· stookll1olders,-•
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J. - " lilN
- RELATIONS BETWEEN- 'L >BOB
.AND CAPI
II.AL

B.y Mr., P

GH:

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Q. Tb. n yon ·...y tba·t the W ,e skirn _ nion Compan,.r pa-,·s, 28 :p er ,_,.ent",
upon it ae ual capital in,· · ted
~ Ye .• sir_
Q. \. · ha p1·oi.. 01·tion of' the ·- ,e·i pts of t.he 001n1>a.-n ) goo to tu · 011er~
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ator and what J)roportiou. to the capitalist !-A. I ha\·e, 11ever ·mad,e ·iu,y·

,e stimate of that..

By ··. r.

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GEORGE ::

,Q. Dul _-.-ou et"er tak-e not · dnrin.g au.r one da -· of t,b1e numbP.r oftelegmm , tliat. yoo se it .a.nd th · au1ou-ut that tbey w·o,n ld P...arn. fo r th corn ..
pany !-A.. '... ·o _;, I have ·e,;er done that.
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VAJ,lJE OF

By the

DE 'W ESTERN UNION lPLA 1

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UHA:IR .A N :

Q. Have ,··on auy ktio, .ledg:e of' the aetnal T".al.oe of t'be exis·ting J>lan·t
of tbe , ,es·t ern ·u.i on Teleg1-aph Company f-A, I ha.'f"e a:s'ke,I co-, .
tractors, m u \Vho ougll' ' to be thoroughlJ info1·med Oil that sohject, and
the bi . be .
timat,e I ba,e be.anl ma- . ,C is ,eao,000,000 '-, _!_ the oos:t of'
repl·· ci11g the "\Vexte1r.n Uoi.01• Com11auy'·s plant · 1t now ex·i ·, ts.
Q- ~Ih ··t would be, t.be cos·t of te11Iaein,g i't now , A. Tbe eo:~·t of F ..
placing i.t uo·w , J n fact, all the experts that I ba·ve ques.tione.tl tell
m:e 'that a bet er sy tern can be ,oon tru...eted for a.boo t. at a1nou.nt or
leij ... l't i·. - the _g eneral imtlression o'f p.r actieal tel ,g raph 0_1)er:-AtoN that
$30,000,000 is a ,. . erJ bigb estimate~
Q. \Vo1 hl tha·t ,ti-mate ·m ake any a.Ilow.a nce fi :r tihe alu .- : of the in
v . u iou , and f e fra-uchi e f-A!!, Wel1 _· a to the in,.. - -·o io·o s1 cou~ idering
what -ihe co.m paur his paid. -f.or them, l th111k that e~timate co\ ·_. rs th m,
a-ud is, a. very hi~.h one . - , .· ·t o th franchise, the rights of way, tbat is
:i0r1th ~t0methiug, but I think the cost of it uultl be tritlib," , witb the
exc _· ptio.ns of th . ri,g hts of ,vay throogb citie&.
Qt Have ,you 1nad.e any·silecial iuqui~y with. refere-n.iee to tbat po,int:'TA .• 1 h.:·T'e inquir- d of t he superintendent, of constnH}·l'ion o-C the .1 ·- ,·· t J
Teltgraph Oo11111snv' · line.
Q .. This est.~n1.ate Jon have obtained fro ·· 'h im and. also from otl eris,
uud rs.ta ld J:011 to ,t;ay .'" W •::n, not directly~
have got 1t from ro 'D
\\""ho ua,e b >,u ,1cti,~ eon rae'tOI8 l thiuk. tha·t this, , o lemun ·who is
oonu· Ot d w.it.h th . Po tal Te·1egra.11b Co111pauy ., in _ po itiu . to kuow
pretty deHuitely tbe cos·: of COllst1~ctiou, antl he sa.ys fbat eao,000,000
_.,oul,ll be a very high estim -· t.e of the cost of d . p.h eatiug· tb ~ ssst m of
the Wes.t ern Union Co··· pany or con. .- tructin.,g a bett.Br · .Jstew~
By Mr. PUGH:·
Q. Do yon k: o _· any p -r on who is well inf1 ·rmed upon _. -. ,s uf\i -· ·t of
tbe cost ,ot th ·_· ~ es.tern Union Oom,pany's JJlant f.bat we coold. call a·s a
witnes , 1,- A . I ,,. ould sug est, that you JI 11r. E~ A. Les:lie, the general superintendent. of the . ostal e'legrapb Compa:n y.
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Q,. Ha . e

CHAIRMAN:

' else in our mi.nd that X,'Oll d sire to la1y bea
fore the co·m mitt,ee f,- -. • No, s1r; I believe th-erie is uothi g· , lse t hat I
care to, 1say at this time.
N ·~ w Yo BK,. Aiu·g flit 13, 1883.
JoBN S. llo.CLELL ·· ND sworn and examined..
By· the CHArR ·_· .· N:
Ques,tion. Where do, you resid-e l---. uswer. ln., obok.e n,, =- .. J~
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12:2·

'RELA.T.l·ONS BETWEEN LA.BOB ill'D CAP'lTAL.

Q ~ 'W hat is, your oocrupat:ion T·- A. I am a1
e,rator.
·Q.. Uo,,r long .ba~e you been enga,g ed in that bu~in,ess T--. - . ---·b oot
fourtee.il y ·ars
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C.AUSES OF THE ST·l tIKK.

Dy Mr.. GEORGE.
Q. You. ha e been p·resent doring t 'he-,e amination of' 1\1:r-. C. mpb : II..
Pie.a ·- estate to the commitb!e, in your· o·\11,D way, ·w hat, you kriow about
the : atters, in regard to which be has been exa.mi'oed.. Tell os abou:t
the Brotherhood of Tel ·g rapbers, about the trike, and the cause . ofi.t
so far as 3~00. know them., the r,a tes of compensation paid to telegraph
operJitors,, and w.bat,eV'er you kuow· about the su~iect generaUy ..-A.
Probably I could ail"'e Jou more. informat1ou bv being ,q uestioned fro1u
tim e to time as I :Jlrocefd, but
ha.,..e no ohJect1ou to, beg,onin,g, as
yon sllg~e -·t, w.i tb a general state-11J1ent~ You asked l1r- C·tmJ,ben.
w·b at Ii•·- consid ·r,e d were tbe causes ot' t.·,est ·ke. No\\' the eauses l .wl
jog to 'this s -rike av _- i- direct a o,d direct~ In tb.e first place, iu my
, opi'oion, the h1d'ir~t cauij ~-of th strike _was, the 11.resentat1on of or tb:e·
di.t~rmina ·_ io.u on the 11ar·t of our organizati:o n to 1u. eseut ' 0:r-tain Jlet.itions to our · mployers. That ·w as the- ·i ndirect cause of t It . strike,
but that need not ueoossarily 'h ave caused · stri'ke. The ,d ir,o ot c··1use
or tb e str ~ ke, in n1 y opluion~,. ·was tl1e i~sol t o,tleretl to o ·_. exccu ti ,..,e
committee by the oflicia:Js of the Wes.tero ·uo &.- ~elegraph Cdmpauy..
Ju an ·p robabili ·y th ~ - would. not ha· e been a strik, _- ". .f" the offictal.~ ot
tb ·· te1t,grapb egm1pauy had ,sbow·n.ev.,en the slightest 'ff i.lliogniess. to ~!ODtl•r 1,dtli tlJa·t .rerJre,~e.n ·tath~ ,e ,eo,m mi tee, and to see·k a 6ettl.e ·m . ut of the
differences tba't - _ere. well knt>wn to exist 'betweeu tbe ,co.wpaHv.· anti its
employl-s. So far in the e-ourse of this.exam".nation ·.he fit·-t, has n . .,Ter
been bmn,g bt out tliat the te'l egraph compaHJ~ ,J.id uct ial~IJ l~w that
the gentle:men of that co- m·i ttee were tbot"oughl~f re1n·esenta.ti,.,e me.u.
Som time b 'fo-- . th trik -; , a.ft ·r the :me ti11_g ,o f our con,.. · ntion in Cbieago was, made known .generally, Mr~ Ec·kert, of the "Wl"estern Union
offlee in this, city,, ,s nt a long lett-e·r to Superintt~ndent Ulo?try,. iu Chi-•
cago, t:alling hi~ attention to the fi'lct that 'these demands. "'e·re nuder
conmde -atio11 by the b,rot.ber'b:ood , thus show'ing to th J p11.bhc an(l to
u.s that h ·-· was quite fam.H iar -_ -ith the. ta.c t at Iea t as long ago as last
lla.r eh that these demauds · ere to be. made. T.ben, too, ·we know as a
fi .ct tlntt tbe o,f flcial -of the com11anl 'h al ,e k.nowu all aloHg that the, ·
grie -antes, ,existed a.nd _that ·_ e - ere pre.p aring to ,s ·.· k reclresN, arid we
kuow also that t.bese otliei:a ls hrt·, .-,e 'b een llreJ1lari.11g tb~1r ~ el',:e.s to resis·t
an,3- .at'te-n1pt on our part to se,cnr,e the redress. o. • our g1·,ievauees,"
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OPERA'I"ORS'' . RIEVA.;.,~CES.
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aske(I lfr Can1pbell ·o~u thing about the r,el:a · ion the :·}l - ar-J"
quest:rou· bore to the st1-ik t . I!• m,y O·J~iuiou, the .- .,Jar)7·t1u~stion it.~, only
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_av r3 seseoudarJt conside.ration~ \le bfinded ourse1V'e . togetl1er as 1.ud iv.idua Is. for tbe Jn11·J lO~e of bettering on r condition, so ·•- ia Ily, fin au ..
cia Hy, ,o r iu an~f otll e-r \l"llY t ~Ult lire ga W ilt or sa W 811 OJ)f}Ort 11 n it~y to d 0
it,. and we •CGURid ·- · ij ed that ,v~ ,v, re entitl ti, nHde.r tbe la,ws of tl1is
001n try, to outaiu fur 001·, : lYes: 1f ,v ~ cotdtl. ~rta. _er a.:1,·nntage.s or
prix Heges t b ~in u·c have been :j oyi n ., ~ \ \ •.., fou ud. that ·u e ,~e1~ d t~1rie.d
certain 1·i,g hts th·rt ,rer,e 0 ·eueraUJ, ti "Cord~d to ,o ther _p OJl•l t,. iu tbt' c1uomonity.. In the lirst 11Iace, we lound 'that we were comp 11 d to lnbor
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ae,~en. day1s in the week,_ wb.il.e people-in otber branches of iudus,t.ry ·haT,e

'Coli15or·oil\~:si -, and in some eases, only fi,,,e and a half da,s Wed~
;'IN)j..:1 t·o
.· ba.1-e a11.d w:-~-4 th
--. ·o
··u-- (rbt ·w w
-ere ent·t]ed to ba,·l, one d .llt' in
seven a'Jlo,wed JlS fo.r · f st, rec eatiou, improvement of mind and boll1y,
or anJ otber use to _·bicb .·e e.bo.se to p,n t ·it. "\\7 .- , asketl---and his
, bows . :nr wiUiugnes , to a, ~sist the compan,r to pre¥·e,n t its, bn,~iness
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from beinJZ disarraDged-tb:at,in case,it beeam ~-necessa ,y for us to wu~~
on the Sabbath,. or 'i n ,c ase a sufficient ·umber of emplox-es W'ere will ..
iog to . ork ou that d.a _: , t'bey should fecei e extra comJlensation for
1snch extra htbor. It did no·t necessarily follow that ,a . m1aH ?;ho, tlid, 10-t ,
w,a nt w·i0rk. on the Sabbath day should· be forced to do so~
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-UND.i.Y WORK UNNE,C ESS4RY.

In conneet1on -.. itb · ha,_ su bjec I th io:k it c_~1n be leai"rl,~ : ihown to
tbi.s commit.tee, if pro_
per time ·is give.u,, t -at t ~,re is no nee .i ty· , hatever for telegraph o,fflces bei g kept open UJK1ll1 the Sabb;rtb da3- at all,
or nt least if ther,e is any such. ne,ce.ssity it is a ·ve~,· slight one,,, and
the real business th at is done on that day can be, t.-ansa,c t e<l with alHHl't

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on &
hundredth _
part of the num ·.~r of emplo,. ~,s tb~it ba,-e generallJ~
been ,t,n,a ag d in- .S untla)· work.. W ,e k ·u ow ,~ ·ry wen ·t hat a large pro-,
portion of" the telegrapli business ·t b.:_t i,s now fransacted. on Sunda:r re ...
lates, to Jlurely ,s ecular, matte,rs.,, and could jost as w,~ll lie transacted ou
1S aturda,.· uigbt or on ·ion.day m1oroiug, The pro·1)ortion ofreaU) u ge,u 't
·b usiness, that rnq,oi.res, to be done· on 8undar., ,such as death me '"S!:lges
or otber n1.essages of emergency., is, very small•.
'V th-e c··..
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,~ You 111a·ke tbat state.men·t as a practical operator !-A. Yeis, 1S ir;
I make i't as a p,r aetieal OJ>e.m tor of' a number of' J ears' ex1 ._rienee in all
b,ranebes of ·tbe business.
Q I. should like to b.uve yon expbdn ·b ow it i or why it is tlul't Sun~
daJ- '1ork i-R done at all by this, •Corpora:tion. -A.. l.t,is because tb.e. ,neu
in, the. emi->loy of the telegra:p b comJ)a.D.ies have been ground down into
such a y . 'tem of abject Ja er: tha . they have uever- '1J1greetl amon,g
themselv,_-•. heretofore to re i.st this re,q uirement; -he3i ha~e-been •COD·t,e nt to go a.long,, feari.ng to m.ak,e anl'"' d.e mand for a reform 1n thJ·., re~
s_poot.
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An¢(. v.,·h il ·am_o:o this ,poin·t let me say ri,g bt berer-:it.mt1,r be a d'i,gres..
sion,, but- it w.i ll c]ear ·u:p a poin't tbat ougb :- to be clea d. up-another
ind ire~. eaus of the strike-, and the direct e.~u .-- of th~ .1>re:senta'lion ,o f
the bill of grievances,. ·waM the failure of i.ndividual operators to obtain
e.v en .a hearing ·f rom _the te·l.e ~ph. eo,mpaDJt's, offi~ial.8, as 1 can testify
fr-0m personal experience.. Abou:t 3 r ar and th.ree u1ouths ago th.e
employes on. the Eight 'force ,d rew up 3 1• titii011, ooucbed in re p@ctiol
laugua.-ge, and P:BS8:ed 1.t around the office jor signature; c1:nd, b3.. th.e
way, owiug· to the fear' ~nder which tbe .1 nen .. ere la ori~g·, it "~as some
~-w houFs llefore all indivi,d ual con]d be, found ,,{ho would sigu Jais ame,
flrst 'to that petiti~o, lest _h.~1s1
~ou.ld be di .charged for tlo.1n,g ·soil
Q.. What ,vas, 'th t petition .-A~ It ·,Tils siniply a 11~ti1'ion that the
hours of service for 'the nigh. force on Snnda,y ~hould, he, regulotecl in
a more satisfactory m.a nn.er, nothing more.and 110 bing· Jesss;. As I have
said, it, v..'.aa with ,extreme difflcu.J·f that a m,e mber of tke toree could bo
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foon(l to sign bi· name. ·first, owing to the fear that w·boe,m
er did. so
would be. di -ch· _.r gcd or otherwise. ,~ictimraedQ '\\ bere w this T- . Ri.g·b t .here in the ,eii,y of' N'ew York T'be
·p titio, ,; ~ow,e,T,er, w·a s dra n up and ,s igned and 11iresented to tbe
·ptoJ>er officers1
Q.. .\ a~ l t nuu1er~
oosly ~igned.! - . It was signed, I _.ay say, by a·11
The pet1.tio•- w.a s prPsented, and from that.tim - to tbi
· otbiug has bee.o heard of it. We, iuadc repeated attempts. ·t o ob~dH
from, tb ; managt?r-, or fl om tbe pre,_ideu t, or from tbe aeting :man.a a _r,.
or _all)' of the officials down to the petty chief some oocou·n tof thi - 1"3tiriou, bu· ha,-,e been n:n.abl.e to do so..
Q. ,,~·ho presented it f.- A.. It ·was presented by a, e.om·mit:teee of ttro
or lhnc, i. ·l10 w•e re .s e]ected for the 11nrpose·; I think the3 · er,e tb : first
t'bree - -l10 had ,i ~ned.
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th - ni.g ht fo1ce.

Q. Yoll know the fac of the presentation of tbe petition !-A. I
k'oo\v the fact of it . prese·n tation ; I k no-:v· th · fal!t of itg b i 11.g traced
to< certain pig on h.ol :; k.now t e fact of it',s bein:" taken. froin there
to n 11 ot b r p,i g ._ on•hol • ,, n nd after th.~ t a.II t-ra.ee of 1t w· ·s. .l.o ·t, and nu re~
p,] y ha . e, ir been mad,e to it, no,r ·,any 8ta.tement as to ·wbether it bas
·b een eo11 ~d ·r-ed or not.
Q Wh n \\'as th "g t·- A. About a year or a Ji·ear and. t'hree .m onths
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·Q., And. 'tbftt peti i.o n • -on &ay had. re~ renee only to the a1nelioratiou
of tl1e bonrs of labor · -A. It h·1d. :reference o. l to tbe am _lioratio1 · ot·
the hour .,o f the ,S unday se1·vic~- _he uigbt fo:roo. Thero· is a differ .·nee
be , eeu the night n~•en an.d the· day men. Tl1 _ day meu .are only called
11.1)0.u to ·w ork one Sundal iu ix, a.ud ,~,·en t ,e n theJ are allo ed shorte
hour8 -,, r]"' other t1:n1e th.e::r are on, · 'h il _.·u th other ban I the n1gbt
opera.to~ _,are com lleU l'd to work ev,ery Sund.,J.Y ,e •eel,) _one in ei.~bt. l"'b e
nigbt

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r ..1. ·o r r l)Orts for duty -~·v ery Snnda3·, nDd i

allo·,a ·,ed off on

every-,e1ghth. Sunday.

Q.. '\V'li a.t p,ropo:rtion of "'·ork i _. done ,on tbe Sabbath in eon:llpa.r ison

with tbe a~noun · done otlHnnril!t·· · u ,v ek d1

rs,· - . l.. :o·t. ov·e r· a qna·t

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lar o . ce .
Q~ nd on think th~;1 _(tcrhic tps 80 or UO or 05 1-er cent.. of thnt wo, k
is secular YlO.rk., w J1ich could ·1,e dotJ e as,"~~H ,ou Satu1-cla}· or Mouduy . A. Yes,, sir; a,t l~ tl' t. frou1 -o to 95 per cent. ot· it is of that ehiu·acterj
To rctnm to t'b, qut~·s tiou ot i:ndi "idnal a,e ion for tbe :red.r e , of grie\··anec , i di ,·id uals b.y tb ~ m srl l"C •-, that is si nglr, ha, ,e eudea,~,:red. from
ti1ne to time to obta1n bet'ler rat@s of reruuueratio ,I rate:s w bic}1 't bey

ter or 1u·olu1bly les.s thau tunt, I u1:, ~uu i11
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fel.t they w re ,- t.itl d to.
Q.. D,ei ore you gu to t liat ]JOi 11t I want o g t a little fo.rthe - in.for111 atiou a,-_ to the sort o·t ,vork.'tbat b; doue ou the ~abbath. Y ,o u ,d i.s'ti ng11 "sb

·bet,veen that wluch is wor· of .nece ··_it3T and that w.hicb is ecnlar
work. How (l . yon r a '!'e tha di :tinction !- A, l dra·w th.e di ti'oction
bet,\rf:ien ,,~ork ,of ue-c~issitJ and bnstuetjg '\ VOr ~ at the d.eatk or sickness
line. No ·b usioess · raututcti-on do l •ooos1d,e r necessary o,n tb , Sabbath
day.,

To proo e<l ,1ritl1 wba·t I was. about to .say in regard to attem1)ts by

· ud i \' id oal 01,e - to.r s to have t b e.ir gri.e . · , c .· redre ·· d., ind1v:ul ual .· ha:,.: e

" tried. from time 'to time to bett.er tbeir condition by ma.king a1ppeals to

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llE.LJ.Tl·ONS- BETW , EN LA.DOB A.ND CAPITAL .

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.officers of the company, ·b ot in nearJv all eas.18 tbes ha.vc beetL rebn
or 11ut oft~OT' denied e, e.n an answPsl':. Tn make ·m v statement more d,e

nit,e an<l 1,rnctical on tbi' suluect, I will say that I ba\"'e -011 a d.ozen or
perba p .'. , tin een occa jo s he'ld eouversa'tionij 1+ -· i th my dir, ·- t n1ao a er·on .
tbig pnrticuh1r point. I have &Sked him a.II manner of qu .stion.s, .rela~ '(
i-ng to ·i t, a:u d ha.,.. found him, ntter.l3 una.hl,e to give me an:\"" ,s atisfactory
an: " ~ers.. · 'h a, e as.ked. 'l1int wbat ,e uc 0111·a,g,emeH't there ·w.as tor· a. man
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w!Jo d-e si~tl to ho fnitbfnl and efficient i:n tt1·", perforoianoo of bi dati.e s.
to t'he oon11,lttny,. wb t enco .agewent 'there ·was, for suc'b a ln1an to remaui s ·..eady and r l ia bl1e and faitlJ1fnl. f hh~,,d Htie ·, and bi . ans . e·r vra ,
"'~·one w hi1teve·1\ Jr .~oo g, :t ·t:ired or· this position, we ,ea.n fill .i t wi.tb - ·
at"n other man at, $70 or·· 65 a month...''' Th.at is.anotber of the evils of the ·
.ser'r"ic,e.,, t bat ·. lJ .·u ,; n1an getting w·ha:t ,v : call a 11 i'! h s ·. 'lar:v is rer-•
mov~ 1 or T'acat,es .his. position it is u naHy filled b~v a Inau at from
to e,IO mOD th le . ; anti t'f'" ·t hat se.cou ti 01 li'D lea. vet,..In bi turn' tb e posi1iou is usoall,,. · ·lied at a rat,e of from $a t-0 •· .· 10 J.o,ve·r still. The.so are
grievances ,eo1uin.g under the. ·first clause of our eomplaiHt- We a.sked
.a.1:so, that the lads ,ope~ tors should. rooei i e equal pay wit,h "t.b e g~ntle ..
1neu~ That point., .bow. , ..er, bas bee11 pre.tty well covered alread~·,, ·--o tbat
it is not necessary, for me to go iuto it h · re· w·fl as . also that eight
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hour.s. shall ,con· titut,e a re·gula.r day's work.

·IGHT Ro,u .: es A DA..Y MORE THAN ENOUGH',,

In a:sk.in.g that ·,we allo·w the We.s te:r n Union Telegrapl1 Oom1:1anr the
ad,·a uto:reof ·two boors ·more daH:r than tbeir,o wn cll ief'o t6,eer-has 1,u.bl1clv
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.ad.m1tted to be a, 'N!a.Honable day's. work for a t,e legmph1 opemtor,. The

former president of th .. company! .] lr1Orton, is oo recor,, l as havi.:ng
sworn before a committee like this, ou a- certain oeewdo-n, th.at ·n o telegraph opera.tor could perform mo:rie than six houn;' work per day ·w ith
J;o st-i.c . to himself or to th e uo1upany.. !Ur.. Orton wa . a man " ~ho grew
up _from the rauks,_,a nd wbo knc:w ,v·h a , " tele rdJ>h o,p erator cou]d clo,,
a:od h·e placed tbe lin1it of ao. opera.to.r'~ u.s efulne~s ·t o, 1·h·e ~om1,any or
to him .elf at ~ix hours' wor · per da1··6 It is a ,, w.·lJ~known fact t hat tbe
wok isy·~·c ywearingon both min~ and body,mu.ch inore so than ordinary
ph/ s·cal labor, an<l tlJrat oper,at.ors as a r. n1e do,.n ot Ji,- · ,.,_ -·n to the prime
of life~ It ·i s a. ·\: ,..ry rare thing, ind ·. ed,. to fi.1ul a, man in th bu~ioess
·\ vhh a iBtreak of _
gra3~jn. his hair. Tbe optrators are fr,equen .IJ ca:rrie•l
otl* b3. eonb11m1)·t 10-o., generally c:iused by ,close ,eonfiaeu1en't autl the position M 't ll<" _,~ have to talte w bile ,a.t the·i 1· · ~.or1t, 0 wing t ·the 1>-eoul iar nat tu-e of tile bu ine s, drawing the attention of the udnd to tbe in .. tntm•e nt
and · be rn1dd rai.e a , wl11c·1t the soontls ·b&\ to be dis:tiuguished an•l
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trans , r1bed ou tlie pap -r, a.nd owing a 'l so to th . . posi·t ion that a man
:m ust a ,· sume,, sit ting · ,tea.dil,y and w1it.i ng all day·,. the ord:inar:r an.d
11,roJle ,e xercise of tbe re~.pirator-y organs·!$ pr-e,,..eoted, a.utl as a m·~'tter
of (a~ · :rol~ v.:rill fi.ntl that when a ·m an 'is ·w hat, w,e call 'b eing" ru-. ~b• ·d"'
he lwrdl!J breatht S at aII-respiration a1mos.t ~ea:ses~
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T.Dm REQUIRED !'O BECOME ,·· :- . EXPERT 0PERAT·OB •.
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By Mr. PUGH·
Q~ " .,,h:_a t leugtb of ime does it tn,k e to qualify a. man a s a skilled
ope·rator ·- A ·w ell, '" -t• take ·. from ftv·1 to fteen ~·ears, to .m/all,.c a. fl1·.ste:lu !.iS oti~ tor41 _There ii.s1uot a man in t be busi ueas, .I su1>I>0aei ·who '-V.iH
.r ank as a first-class man who 'b as been in it less. t b ·n fi ,-re yea 1·.s1

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REL.I.TIO. ~s, B'ETWEEN LABOR
AND CAPITAL.
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Q Wba · ·p roportion of leai~ne -- ar,e tJi,ero in th ·. n1embershi_p of y-our
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raft-, a.ecor, Iing t.o your best op,i uion . - ·-.. ·T here is no ·w al in which
tha·t ca.u be ascertai neil. Our mu k,s are Jegiti'mat@I: r filled fron· a.ppren..
t1ces to · he other 1.JraJnf es of tho bu 1nes ~ Th y rise ft,. m btdug check..
boys, :1 nd m,esseogers~ Tlu-se boy . iu course of tirne, fro1n their fumll.-•
iarit,.'t"' w·'" tb the office and with tb .· bu~'int! N learu the ru.di,ment~., and, by
,8 1zing tu ir o,( lJ~ortunit.i •"" , _
g aiu ~i. kuo . I tlg-e of operntiug nnd in time
'beeou] ··regular operatorslJ 'flr re ha,. e been ,vh~tt are. eaUf,l "'t,·legro.p h
oo·l legt .. ; ·sta )Jiisb d .. ·, ar-* ous 11a.rts of the countr:r, unconnected w ith
an,· t-ele wra ))L office or s.y_·t ~ m of 'l~ leara p lj y, uut t hc,mare 11· er-e .pecula-,
tiou on tltc 1•art of indi . i.d n;rl: who ha\~ ·brt-11. unable to obtniu a Ii ing· ·u
the bos1ne~ ·, a·~-d ,vho lu1 ,~e t ak.e · up th b; occupation, and hai e at~
tem,p ted Io furnish 1nateri d to be u~ d iu · be practic: l busin · s of t eleg·rapib3-r·.. Tbe,operator hat tb i,)~ turn out ne'\"e · arriv·e , ho,l'eY..r, at tlJ:e
same <legre.e of profi.c iency h t is attuinec'l b~t a mau who ·
been
brnoght n.p to it in the ofli<.~; tll y n _- ,?· "1~ ~u: t.aiii t·o fi.1·s cbt ·s position-,
and of those who mak ·· the ,·enture, in that ·wa)' 11..robabJr r, iue-ttUJths
ab olnt: ly fail and, go baek to thei1· old o ~cu1n1tiou . , ,,·hate't er th ) :m ay
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Q. ow ·man:. gr.ade,R of skill a.re thero i.n .·- our craf" -A. l is, a ,erJ
d ifli UJ t thing to g1 ade th• ,~'k i11 of th telt•·,g ra pb. ope1·a.tors.. T11 ·r n ru _y
comni ouly be 1said to be th 1l~e· grades; b r the ti1·st an( l t.he seeond ,grad.es
would be so near1J alik,- 1hat i - v. onld be , ..ery diffi i~ult to attempt to
draw~ di --- tinct d ivision liuu u~t\'.\"( en them,.
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Q. In tbe wages }Jaitl i. , th.ere any re ~o.n nition. of the di& rent grodes

of , ". iU -'- A. · ot unifon ly. I.en w·b o an~ eaHed. stri.ctly fir _t mclass
op ra ·or in many i.uistau ·• ·_ . ree.eil9e l c-·SS eon1peugation han ·_hos · wlao
m.a~~be cal l,ed oood-class o,p erator .-· . Soni · 'time .. yon win fi1 d n1en
wo1~ki ng ide bl ,. *de, <loin t be sa rue qua I I t.y a1u:l q nan tit y of ·u.-01 , in
th · sani· number of l1011rs, -on tb _· same day. and one. of tbem. "~ill ·r-ecei ·e ·1~erhaJl8 la or $...!O a mouth m.o re t.b au the o't I er. Tba _ i trne
·10 man,: ca e · o.f .u1en v.· ,o, are doing· 'the , · me work, or capable of
do.· ng it~
"'
B . 'the ·C AIRMAN:
Q. I ( o 11ot quite onde'- tnnd.·w ha .· sou ·- ay n.po,n that point. ,s there
not a clo.s 'ifica!ion of fhe labor in auy gi.v .· H oflice into fir1t, second,,an(I
tbi:nl -c)at,l .Jlr~ule"'., .a nd i ,_. not t ·e pay fL -ed for .· ac11. cl.a s,of operato .· f~
.A . _._-.· ot uniformly, 1Sir.
Q. Take th.e N,. w York o . ce for inRtane :• how· i,s. i . l1ere; is th ' r,
a;ny neh rule i:u tbi office ~'- A., No, 8i' • They make an a t mpt to
grad tbe o ._ rators in , o,me i :tanee,st but it i 11ot ca.rriec ir1to e·f tet
pr.actit!ally, A sape·11or first clas -, ma.n wHl often g-et a. less ,o rnonu .· of
001npens t1on than i · paid to wh .-t w-ou1c1. · ·aHetl another tlr- t-cla
·m an. Th · re t. JMJ• uni •-·0 r,m·1ty in that resp \·t. Tbe ~on1p-au,; fix 'JS fhf.
hi,gbest ·r ate t at it wHl gi,
01,erator wbo ap11lics for ,r.ertain flO ~.ition . u;nd one, flrAt4~1a· M opera-tor mny by som,e fortunat ~ ,c ircnnl' • ~11 e .
;s ecure that po~it'ion, --bile anotb . r first-cla •.·s ope,- tor eomiug balf i 11
h.o nr afterward • may b forced. 1>e1--ha1, ·._ to take $15 a mon'th. I · -., though
he, is real.Jy worth as 1nocb as tl1e other to th • c-0i01pany, autl of etiiull
akUl.
,y
r. CAt.I-4 :
Q Is not th3t a · ory D.D'prodtable. ·syste·m for the eompan:v-, to em111oy
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BELATIO,NS BETWE,E N LABOR AND CAPJ.TAL~

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inferior talen.t aud paJ i.t as wen. as, it pays tb,o IJi'gbes · ,g1·ades of talent
or e, eu as · ou say to pay 1nore for th tw-r~ie,es of a poor operator tlutn ><
for the scrl"i.c es. of a good onie :r -A. ~ ell,. they d,o some Yery .f unny
tbiois in the West : rn Union. Office, som,e thina:,s that · e C8D'OO' -· undere
staud" Tire know·,.as a Jhcf, tba.t Mo,m,e ti _~es m ·n who, get the lou.·· salaries ·.
ace ,ca.palJ1e of doing ·b etter w·o rk and are really flrst-,c lass men.
,
Q. Do you think that ·wouJ,1 be a •~rstem or rule applicable to tbe ma.:
Jority of ca~r,s _.-..........A.~ I ~ay tha·t the com·p any has no uniform rule e·i thor
1br·the class ification · .r for the payment of o;perators Fav•o·r itism seems
to b~ ou •· ,of the nde8 of tile omce.. If .a man ,c an ihg1-atiat ·. him ·e lf u ith
t-he mana.~ r,s a1ul help to carryoutthemean seb,emes or plan•·. tbattht!y
formulate,. such a man wil1 ge·t along· very _-ell and ,, 111 ge .· ·.·.~ p a.· ..
Q But b.e will bave to be .a telegraph. operatort-A.. Not necessarily a go ·•· one-not :nece&,ar1lr a ·n rst-cl;1ss, o-pera~r..
Q~ It -.:-.•·ms. to me ,i \ v ry .:tran.ge w.ay to m.auage b·uisine ~ s to em.ploy
an inferi.or 1nan a -: · . bigber rat-e of pa.y than tb.e company gi,res to a
good one·---•l~ These men that I speak of u.n.d erstand the busines · they
· re reg u ired to ,Io~
.
Q;, Tb ".D th ~ r• : is not enough difference in. the degrees of ski'11 to m~ke
a pe·r oep,t ibl· · rbffcr ··o,ce. i'n the va]ue of a man's ,s ervices-is. that it ,A .. .i\second or tl1irtl""'class m,an ran be n.tilized by the cowpan.y uu(I rce.rtai.n ·e ircumsr'tanc(i's aboost as. ad·v a ; ·t a.! !eously a ., a first.-c}ass ·10.ao.• Such
men arie usetbl for workiug wa.yB·wires.
Q. Is i. no the rnle. that ,v··tierev,e r there is important business to be
don .. the aervices of t'he b·:· t skilled operators are reqo1re(l ,, _ .\. As .a
ruJ -,. yes, tor in.s tance, in the employ of ·t he ·w e ·te.r n U n·mon Company·.,,
her,e in ·. ew York, ~,ou wll :find more re.ally firs,t-class, men than in any
p,l ace in the country..
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N,O C031PE~ITION \Vlffl THE WESTERN ·-.:-IO· •

Q~ I s,uppo&e the t,e legraph operators &ff at this di:sad:r.a-nta,ge, that
th · re n . but comparativeli"t' few corpomtion, engaged. in the bu·, ine .. ,
and tlierefore , . . ery little ,oompeti.tiO'h for their serrices, so 'that, wb,en an
opera.tor gets otit of ,e:m.p loyment there are onl,y t·wo or · htte cG,mpanJ.e:s
to ·~hom he c n a;p1>ly for ·work !-•A~ Yes; competition e,xis,1:8 only to a
very sli.ght ext,ent,. bnt there is . lw f 'S a de.m and in tb.e one .g.r eat eorpo-·
ra:t~ou~
Q. Bn·t 'tbe · i no- competition betw·een th.e telegra:ph eorpomtion.s TA. · ~o ;. b · an e fhe one gr-eat ,o orporat:ion,., 'the '\iVes'tern _Union, .s.wallow .~UJl all com.p eting line.s as fa -t as.. tbey are eons:tmcted.
'TIIE X:NIGRTS, OP LABOR.

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By Mr.. PU,G H:
Q. Ha e you any knowled.ge: of ·t he, m .- mbersbip of the Knights of
L ·. bor -A. Yes.
Q. ,,rb;~~ h~ve you. s. ated on that subj,ee.· , ......... ·. • ba\"'e no,'t. stated an3:"..
tb ing at all, sir.
,Q Can :y ou gi· ·e. n•·. t-b.e o:u.-m ber of' t.he w.e1nbe.rsh.i p '- A. J.: _o, s,i r.
Q. ,vhat nombe.r of operators are in that uuion or organization 1.A •. I am not abl 'to ,s a- .
Q.. Wbat is .Jour ,-•.ti·mate of the number of operators, employed by
the Wes.tern U .n ion Tele•J:rapb Com.p any 1 - .A. Probably ,a bont four
thousand-between three an.d folll' tbousand.. That,. however, is ouJs
goe.sswurk ,o u .~ y part.
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REI.ATIO.N.S BETWEEN L ·' BOR AND ,CAPITAL1

STRIKES NOT NECESSARY, NOR o ·.a.·u ·sF.,n .B Y LABOR ORGANIZATIONS1,
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a pbe11 was a k d. in tb'"e first pla e,, . ba a strike i· _,. and -_.hen

be ,,,.a~ a ·~kt.I(}. i.f s.t ri k~ s had not brrf'Own ou.· of th ·.· grow th of tbe Iu;bor
JUO\~·._ fflf.H t-

_.. Jr. I t JGH. Out of tl1P, e ·",·ten - •o.f tl1 la-_ or organizati'ous..
TI .· ,,,..1 r ·ESS ·. ::i.s ; tln1 ; was the q ,e&tion.
·ow, .J d.o 110-t tb~o·t
tba rs trik,_ s cau b attrmbute<l to tl ·•.· exist,e noo. of the labor o.rgan.i:zat-i,o n,s. In the first plaiee., I rlo, not claim that strikes are .ueees a.r~
y, no.rdo
1 see the ne.cessi.tv· to.r tbem. A .s I started ,on.t to say a whil,e ago, ,v .
had no inteation or desire to s·t rike. ·.. hen this bill of gri · vanees was,
p·r eseutetl . We would ha,-re 11 et tb .:t. oftlcials of the eo-m1,auy in f1•i,e ndly
eoun el for a settlemen·t ,o f the d.ifficul Ueti that. ex.i:oted. bet,v,e en th em
a11d the employes of ·the compa.n3~, hilt having be,(fn .r epulsed by those
officials,- of course no other course was left to our organization bnt to assert its dignit•l audits 11u1uhu-od b~. reqnesnng its r1u~m·bers to cease to
work for the oompan3~. 1'he.s e labor organ1za.U.on··. are brought into a
grea d eal. of'disrepute b,y- .a, <..ertain elemeut in the comm.n oitywho fear
them.......fetlr uot mei·e1y t he1r ac ion. bot their existeo.ee'1

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L . BOB. UNI0~ S .D EFINED.

_ A J_it'bor org.aniza~.ioa~ n~eaa ~· notb.1ng n1ore_JJ•o r le ~·s th.an the ~antl.in,r
togeth~r of a et of in.d i,'H)ua]s wlio are- seeking to 1bl.p ro,e tl1eir c,ondi ..
tiou~ ;=soe-iaH,·, financially, , . in an:;r other legiti·m ate wa:y The orga.ni •
za tioos tlo not n.ecessa.ri 1y fo.r1n a ba sb;. foi~ . stri e., al though ~-0 rneti.m,es
sti·i.ke·s become ne ·essary 1:brough action takc'lJ by la.b ur orgaui.z ations.
·n ut t stiike is just a.s. much a strike on th: · 1ia ~-. of the employer
agains,t tile em ploye a un the 1,art of t be. e ploye n.gai·n s.t tbe ,em-•
,.
Plo-:rer,..
· Q. But tile effect of a strike is iocrease,l on alf!con.n _of its being sauc~
t1,on. cl by a la.bor or,gauiza.tion_-A. ·y est by its being ·. 'anct.ioned by th. · ·
organ1 zat ion,. nnd by ·i ts being a. eo,11certed action on t11e par· of the
membe ·. o.f the orgauizatioa ·
Q.. ly i<lea ·was tha,t tllie exb,; . nee of tl,e la·bor organ·za.tion, the: CODI•
bination of tbe laborers in tbat a3, ioereased the wor -ing 1neus'' power
of self tie.fence. Is 110it that so - .,L\~ Certa·i nly
Q. · ""un ha,rc. staite<I that the wag . quf)•·. tion di.d not enter 1nuch ·i11.to
th.e moti•,res f:oi· this. strik.e .-A . I stated tbat tbe a,l""'• ntag-es, and. pri·\'"i
leges that 1 o eousill. redo 1rsel,..e·s tig·b rly e.otitletl to-,.....th· t the de~.ire
and tbe e Hlea,-or to se -n·r e tl.Jo.s~, 'W ;;ts of b"F-ta.ter 1nou1ent to ns and lo .
flue:n ed u. • ·more thun t.he d ~,sire to u·,t .. t an ine.reas~ of 1.5 ·1ler ,cent. or
an~· otl1 [i r Jler eeut in our salarie ; h: eau -·e I re.cognize th fact tbn.t
th. · alai,~ question i - one that regulates it~e1f acco,~diug to the law (us
it iR eaUt:tl} of su.p1.d · aud demand~. I recognize· tbe right of the ,com~
pany to iS oour, . tbtiir· he.I p for v.·lnit,e \,.er- price 'tb.ey can ·; but a . the sa.me
ti mc I ,~e '~ogo h~re t h.e ri gb t of . be nd i',...i, lt1 al opera to:r fo sell hi · Ja bor at
the b s,t 1u·ice lie can ,g et,, an.d to ask as mucb. :for· it _s he thinks be can
gP.t~
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B:,: Kr.. OALL.~
Q. You. do not . bink th.at tb.e oompan . ba · a .1igh't to gi .-·e its em~
plo~/e,i le · .· 11ay t -1an ·wHI sup11ort th m . - ·.. No sir ;,.- b, 1t I ·would
r itth(l•r uot enter into my i,deas on that ge enil subj .ct a- tld •. ti 1e..
By· the OH'A llt _ AN:

,Q I would lik,e 'to und.ers,t and yon .a little. more definitely. Do you

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'R ELAT[Q, .8 BET\V'EEN LABOR AN'D CAPIT~~L.

:n.ie,~\u to ,say that thi.s, s:t rf ',e .i s th result of a. real «1.--:ier.auce f,Jlt by t 1@
t'elc ~ l"a 11b opera.tors, or i~ j . si'i n1 ply owi ll,« to the fa,c t that. ~ on r , eou1 n1 i.tte t'i It in ult~d bJ· t be ,¥a r- the,- were ,m t by G -nera I Eckert ~'- \.
J·l oth.
Q~ .t\.~ yon .tn t,, il i.1 a ,,~bit · ago it ~ee:1u. -,1 to b ·. nu~1.~e1,~ a 111r·1tt . r of:
Jtl~r. ·n111:"'1I ,li~n·i-t~~. -~ o,\··~- t Iii~ '\,nn1n1ittf'e. a1ul t lie c,o uutrr w,c~u]d._ of
~~er ..rst\ be glad to ~-- f - , €\,·et,:hod,,~ trea 1ed in :,. Jeu.tle·mnHnJ~~ u1ul 1'e. Jl ct
f~ 1 nittnner, ln.i - \''r ·. shou·J~t like to knou· vr'ltether ,,·on JlUt the ~trH"t~ upou
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rhe .::.,~ unu tlurt. yon.1· -oiunu.'tt'ec ,r. u'3 uot proiu.l'ly tr,~ate<l. b · fbeoUic .. r .·
ot the t, le~rnrh ,u ourp ni,v . ·- !\.~ I I a,·e stat ed th~ . i' bere r'ere t·wo taus _k
,\-Lich ri d to th,e ~tri ~t:·•·•-HU intlire ~t oae and a direct one-aud that thti1:1·threct cau~, ct~ tl1L g,1 ~ ev·· uir ~: · tlu t we h:ut t ·t "J,r. th iu our biU \l".h i "It
·, \-(~-rn·~Ren tt~, l to t'be l\.:"' . R:t~i11 ""ui ou ·om 1~1 n:r.
· J. Bnt do ,·011 ·1l_,1.1..;:11 to he nude-r~tootl. us :-,a1\~i.n .i-il" ' that vo1 "·ould Ila¥ •
l 'f '"l 1\rt; d thos . grr ,\-nnces if :rou ha.,, l been civil :f ti--eate«l hy G ,n ral
.E ,cke1 · .. -A. I an1 not in. a 11o~ition to ~a,: t'ha. r, ·t1cl1 ,ro 1lll hav · hfen
thl~ ~.~ast- . but I saJ· -b:1 if oni· coin mit· e · hatl _ . u n1et i.u a geutl .an :,
1unnner by th~ ott1chi.bi o t'l1A comJ}ans aud. a.n op1J,o rtunit) hnd be~u
.anu,Tc ,·1 tbeui to oonsl l l; ·i l1 110 .e o-tii tials a to the b i t n1od, · of t;ett H n_
g th ,fJ n.est ib 1s of J.ilfti·euc ~ bet w,-en th · eom_p any and 1 t ~ ein 1~1ov~·s,
111«·-1· 1: u·oulll probably hf ,e beeu no stril...e.
~ (~,. y ·ou ni an b,· frat hat the o·i .1 ·v ancrs wou1tl bav·e 1.J::) n redr · sed,.
]lrtuballly; is th.at it~-- .~. 1Son1e of them ·. fgh ·~ irre been_ an<l so-ru(~
<!O n11>ron1i~e in iglit ha \~,e b -· el · .- -·fleeted . .
. Th CHAII?JJLA.- ~· i''lut~ nn,loubt·~ dlv puts, the ma·. te-r in th .llro11er
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fl~ , f the co 111any .had ,t,~nttu-red ·\ ,.. itb ,your comn1itt ,.e res:pectfull.'. :,.
nr had. ofter -tl nn a.rbiti-atioD, yon t hi'uk there ·u~oultl bave been no
strike_,_ .- • I th ~uk ther, ::\'"'ould. have b .e n no ~ .t1rike; in fa ~t, I am aln ,~t 11 ·sitive that our comnu:ttee were r-eady aud. willin,g to nieet t-bem
in t l1at ~pirit,.
ll~ tltie, -<a .IRlI · N :
Q~ Y-t>-11 tlo11bt U.nlle1 J,·111-tl, l1ovr _..,·cr . th.at ,~-our eon11n[ttee "7,ou11l hat""t
ht t·11 t lu r,e at all to 1>re. . nt a~n _~ bill of j!' ·Ji •-' auces, 11.11l. s th._ 1._ ,ve1·· ~ n hs ant la I g"ri e,.~;u t-ce,· to he p1· .. eHted, rl o :rnu
~~ ot Ht n11.
Q. ~flu~ real or~g1ua ean~e of the strik~,, tl1eu, i , the .n-rie\.~l.nceij or
,lh (;-l ) ou. co1n1)h in~- • . No,. sir, I do uot ad.n1!it tl1at. The cau . e of
t rn~ ,· trik i~'" . lTal' Y:, th •refusal on the p11rt of' tbe· cou1pan,~- to eon: id-ei·
1. hos,e grie,ancit s
Q.. _\. ud ti, a 't r ~
-rn. a I in ,l neecl action ou yor r }lia.1·t ant bori zing t l e
~arik~ ·, -A., Yes, su·~
(J·. Tb ·y th re"~ you oft" aud 1•,e·tn ·ed to ·1ea '\ f ,·t b you ~-A~ Y c~,,. si: h t ,·~ wn~ tben no o: her U"lll. of settling the diffi.e ulty excep·t ·•r anow"iug the compan3,· to fin the plac~s of the n1 ..1ub ·:rs of the org:uuz=1·tio11
upon thelr own er1ns d:' they conltl do so~ 1:he 001ntn1n _. ha . ·. be _n
~J ,Te u suffl.ci en t time and o tlJ.i ort uui t~,. to do _.}I at ,uui t·b e' , ha-\ · con' · i·1iced. the 1, n bl\ , fh at bey cun not (lo it, ;ind now t bey ha Y-e h iaugu ~
][ ,1 t ·cl the star\...ing out policy, to which. tbe pull lie h·1s gi,- · u it:s a~~eur ~
Qi ·, , hnt i,·: J our j Ull 0 ·tuent .a s to eftee -_ u J)OH the stand1ug of xour orgn nizatiou. if this. stri.t . fails ._:·- Ai 'I think. i.t ,vill i.n a ,..,er:y sbort time
~olid.if':r ,_,b , or a.niza t.ion ·t o .a ,g reat,e r e tent .'h · n e-,~cr before.. I t:li1nk
th :· men are becou1iug aroused. to a knrnvledge of thei.r ri;.{.bts ...a.nd think
.i t ~ ill. no be lou·- before .• . strouger ,and 1no1~e-powerf1d organization will
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sprin,~ u ll·, a 1ul 1l1r n1.f!n ,rd] Jlruhil b]:v J)r-nut hy th~ CXJ)e.1ience ot th i8
t1UH ha •l h·e(,t fr 1~ t H.~ ue\'r org·1 u iz~lt iou.. We iUi., ,~onne ted. at t 1ut - l 1·t ~~
ent 'tinu;. u-jt~ otbt -r b~ nn(~he~ of h•ln~tr,, b t w · 1Sball pirobubl,,. b . lJ 01·£ .
C]o~e1,, u1l ird \\rj t·h fl Pn I'~
(}. 'flJ pr,e '\'\,"~ R '~n I ( : t X I) l.1 ~~i Ol l yon d ropJH) tl a \\ hi I . a,~,O to ·, r b i.t·lI r
'\,\'i·~h t ·), ~lnn.\· Jonr alh:~ntion., \ ·otl ~aifl tl"1t fht . cuwpauy hacl in ~
iUatt 11 -~t ht~ ,st.rn·viu~ ou ])OH-(~~\~ to ,,rl1i.ch the }lnh]ic u~a ,~,,~i ,Tiu::r its
HJ•a~( 11,t .:- -:\
ires~
Q.. \\'']1~1 t is ).- our idit~a. in hnt :'ta 1't:n1cn t 1'- : ,. 1'" hc itl .'"U i . · bis: ].>r1.··vi.ous to tbu sttil:~t~ ·t]i e cornuan\· ·h :ul t ·1n1~iuyn1eut fin~all tlu_
., ,oper·1tors
\l:-hu nrt~ 10\\- our ou strikE.• a1ul h bn:i.ne~s ,,·as so euorcuours that it
taxl~l the for~.., to it · u tn1ust cu1,·1city td kc •[J it nHJ riu~* Si~~·: t the
s.·J·ikt·· took Jl·~-u~u th ~ co1n1~ ruy Ju1x0 , ~~n uH·1 hie in any c:rreu,t,::~t l 01 .~utb ~
:i;t,cUl tia l Wa.JllH! l'' to ~UPJJl,.·r t'lH~ phici.1 ~ of t.uo ·p \\-ho ,,- .1,u t OU .-:,,,."' J' ~.k '. HI c:.l
tLe 1,)UlJUt~ fintliug ti ~1t thch·· n ju , s · ·,,.a~ . 1,ut bei-w~ p 'O Je; ::,· 'f.ra.u~aclccl ltf t be telti!!l'al,>h cu1ui:~auy, ltaYt), to ,;: grea l t! · lcut, cc .. t ~•ti to U!Se·
r.be te h~·~ !"·.t ph ~ ,..u ul h ~1 v·e l t sort,e d to th
lost-office i u ~:~·t ead ·ru1ll. _he
,,-l ·.. tei■tt l "'." 1 iu11 Co1n1•a1 ,.r 1.t~. Ir ha ~.a!. ·o a~ loptetl t.:iw ·~~au •l~ u,l nu s ~u~]i ng
it~ 1n i~sn,t;(~s hJ 1 u11U-ch~u-- ~i n n· file JHLl1il ie tl1,e tci-egra ph tolL... :u,,.-1 th~n
••ti Ju 1iu.~ tlu~ uu~~s 1gt s in lxttclH~~:5, by ul~\ i :I.
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Q . l\nt ~Ton J~l"O\T(~ any ~.:mn·•h f~i,ct,s, ! -•~ ~
ean . I tJnuk~ yr ·u,r,p ti· ·•:r
~tatf\uu~ut. Xo,\"~ ·,·I ·fl pnbUc ha\m
,~, 1~ 0 ihr -o,r,~- f•,t uf ,l.tlU('!(~ in ·U ~ ,aLilii~.~
of th, ,,, t~t,er1 l ~uion c,nn1,an~r t O t . iU _:-;, cf Uu· t ni._i.nl-- ~ ] ►V- tl •e.1·1,, th tt
· be),' nrt 11ot fur-ui ·-l~i'hg :--;utii:-(~·,, nt l n.!in,.~. . o la•P11 ,p \~t i n 1.h"' in t'~·t~ut
f'ofi ·e ot t l1•· t~nn1J~1u ,.. ~u:-n·.. ] I,~ otli~/< r~ ot· t ht · con11Tu1,T fl rt:. nuott
d u~
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~ a,·i:11.!! 'thnt th(}' uu.;:h _· p.:-;~ ,r.:K" 1·no\'' in!! ~1101 1!.. Lu Us ,( r ,( [n~n•,y n1·u1urr.. rrud
tlr,t th•~~ 1 nd thr~ott,p 1 (•utire-~- tl1ftt tl1t.1 1.•,, \nl~ ~ucb a thing as. ."'t st1Jhe;
t 1.i!1t, tin pln.re~ of tho . t'i·UT·e rs h~u.l u]l h~eH fHl~tl 1,y 1:l ~Ul)f r.ior chis.•, -•f
1ne1 :; ,,~hHe, lll the ~une eohunH,, or pt1 ha11s ,a d~)· Iate:r on of' tltf . ct1l~e~1· of ·t · 1~ cou111 ;tn.r is qnot:1:~tl n·-_ sa:vi.11~ t ·h at .11.. ,c ould fi11d emr~Ioyn1:,~rtt
for oue thous·-uid oi~ tb~ fi,tr-H{ "'"r.s~ Xon,, if tb r , is em1l]o·, 1nen for one
· housancl of t 11 e bl~ t UJJl~ruhn·s.~ r·;ieb of wl101n i.s caJJa bi,e of l1antlli11g
tllte t In H(l.-·i1:.>1tl ti i~··.:a_g ~ n dn:r ,.fbat will' ~ho·w cle::n·ly t'11at the Wrste,ru
u·nion ( on, pn u ~~· l ul ve t 111l' e h n nd ~,l thon.sa ud m,e ~·sa,«es a d n... "·]l j,ch.
they <·,an11ot l1an,llit:• ''"jth 1. i,eir p1 ·•· ~eut f<ut ,c. The.r•e ar·· 1nans 0U1er
littl.(i hu·o1hf~tt nc+t1 ~ i I tl t . stat,rnu:ut.s of tl1e Vtes,ter.n ._ ui- H ( ,o,m ...
}lau,· 8 oiUti~ 1ls that eoul~l bt~ , ;ent ~-·1:rrd 11· w .; bad the tinu_l.
B.y· .111,;,'~·1}·. 1. -·• ,..,.G H"'
(~. ~ nu 1~· 13. rot be:r l1ood n t1 d ~ ·r,· ta 11 tl a.] I t l1ose mat :ers
sll PIJO.,. . ·~ .i;.\.,. , , ... e c- ·a;nn t Ii; t we undel:7 ·:ta d a . .re.at many of' tbt,.se t bin.g s ·p retty
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DELAYS. IN. TRA.NSllISSIO!i" OF ME,SSAG'ES~,

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Q.. Do Tou cl:ai tllart yon k1 ow tho actual a.'m ount of business tbat
the " re -tern Union Com·pan:r is novr doiug ;-A. ,~ e k.now th •. actual
~u · ou ··t uf bu. ·.i ne~s ·t ransacted by the eom1u u _v ; W know th•• ir aetua·t
receil1it , a1 d the dec:r ·ase in tbos receipts in comp arisou "Hith t'br r
,ceir•ts in the ·pre,Tio•u s v. e .ks before the st.1 ~rc,e;. a-ad we know· tl1e dehtr
which 'lS. ordinarily oet.1.1rrin 'ii' o,n messaies band ~d in for transmitstiion.
Q.. What is th{it d Ja)y gen :_rany , - tbi,s t er -,e ! - . It ba,s aYe1·aged.,,
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,lur~ng the trike, from :fi,'"e to fi.fteeu hours, and in som1e. eases a,s high
as ti eutJ four houl'°i -., or ev-e n forty-·•·i·~ ht ·hours.
Q.. Before t be. str.ik@ ,,.-a,g 111augur.tf,e d w11a.t was the ord1na·r y tleJaJ

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

of me sag-es. a · compared. w·i th thes d-e1ay1s . bicb ~ou ha,e mentioned ·! A~ Th.ea era_e de1ai · on tb ·b a.· J" l1n . s, wa:: ,~ r. ry 1naH iudee-tl. T11e1 e,
was a special effort made to kLe}l down d .lay-o- tho~-e ·1ine . F , r bi t.:1n
a me ~ug band d in at tl · Ion-tr part of be office he~e fo Pb1l:-u .
J1ia lfonltl ~·ou1:e Jm,· ·: ·be in J>hi.I adel1tbia t.wo .m :i:unt s la· tu·, or in t •~o
minute _.a t tbe 011ts,iue.
·Q~Then ·ould fi,..e or· tt~n n1u1.11t CO\T r th . ordinar tl,~la~:- 1111011
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·m. ·- ag s - \. Ye sir 1 ·fi ,~ m "'nute '", ' "" ul~l 0 ·: ~ - · th .a ·, ~erd.ge tlt~·t;1v·
bef01•,e t'h e .stt·ilte ; ,,~beri ·1 ~ t be , t:la3~no,\~ j ~. from fi Y - to t \li"e.n Y-fo .. r
llours or e,·en 101 c,.er, 4uul iu 1n·tny --a e -_ mes ·ct~·· ~. 11(!,~e-r :-eaeh ·t lieir·
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that i i is uierea.siug at u ll·1r1ning· r te.
Q. : ou a r a ,rnre. of ·ou rse.,, tb ,tt cont -ar~ ,.tate1ul~ :u t._, ar ·- gi.,~\-n to
time pnhbc l,y ·t he cuu1Jln-nv ~ o :h . ye ,; tbe..r luive been makin." ."neh
. ,s tat -mfiUf' all ttl lon,~~
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Q. Jin,, ·e h1i11 do , on fe -1 t hat , t•nr inform:1tion is i~li~b] e f This
t ·tia:nou~ ,;\·in ~o to tb pnhHct aud he 1.n1hlic w·.d l be iut~re .•t~-d ~n
koo'\\ h~~ th 1lu*-t . a~ ~~ou ha\ e tb u i - :nut · .l::so xo n 1u ans o I inftn·1n·t.tion.-...\.. l a1n Jl ·rfit.ctl:; ~nn~ thnt, w·e kuou~, and ha,-e k.no,ru all .~h>u_. r,11•
tl1e cnur~ of the co U}lrtH) 's bu. ·in .-·~ tlnritig th:.. ~ti·ik ,. a ud we knoll"
that •us1u -._, hanll. .. ,1 in by th · JMthHe bn · bc .e 1 . to'1"'e tl. a,rny h1 .h~:q,s
.1n tlarl eo1·ru:r~, on ilecouut of the del·1)· which "ere ine\·itabl. t.niiclt r
t be circn n tn nces.. ~ ·1t ~ pn b Ii and t'he, nm-pt~~ r,11 t :l ti: ,··t of t hf' in ~ s. 1'.\" t■ 1-e
a(lrnitt il tu the bufllliug dui·nl~ tbe fir. . t tc",. d~1J·s nf ht' ~t ·r ·kt ·, but
when t e, rouipanl sa-,,· ho,,. . t hin
w~re _g oin.~ lr ~,-. · ·tn.. · tl to let t'ht--Ul
'ill a·m1y n1ore :; O.t , l\"hen they were ctd.ro it letl to fht: llJOl l . ·.,rer.vthill~ ,,·a~.
,S}lO , D t 0 · be nice ·uul clf'ar, wl1i]I ,, in f ,ct, at tlM~- san ,:.. titue the · \\ronhl
b _1,Uc8 of b udn s·s b ~,hl(~u aw.a.,- i:u d.a,rk corn ~r,;', aud ·1u~u ld.l 1.· tJ.1.e
r p1-e e · tati.,,et:; of' tb. 1u s );f .· tliat busin , -~ ,\~OL't.hl be t~1.ken ent ·u:d
hooked tlll ri ~a<ly t -·•
nt ; and if be d ~ a)· got o b too ~r : at the
m . s ·1g, s ,v .-·ri·-· · u _ bv .n1ail or e 111 ss a 1ul in ~o n , ca, •-. m.e ~~ngl · tn
phtc.e "in New J r~e,y ·w· 1e s .u t out liy tr~dn and th"<ll~·1~e,l at t t:. tJiti-'c. r.·ut. s.tations.
Q. Iou · J nk of tbe t,~legr-tl}lh ti1flu-1pany · a ing ~ .-ut i'ts mt1 .sag ~ ·, ,,..
mail :i n · : me -c·1 · · ·~- \. ·y e _, i:1~ .. I li,--e in Ioboken .N ,: w J -t~ey, t 1. n tl
I got a ·nt e~sag, JUJ' · If vr1tl1 a }u-ee ceut ~ta.nip ou i ..
Q~ Bo,,,. lou.~ tf'"tcr l had been de11osit d J1e.r f -.A . l ,uu not ure:p iH"t: d
to -sa.\■., I ha" e ~,ot ti •t . nu" sn~,_ now.
Q _ t (~~·lllH ou say, in the oNlina~-- cour~. of n1ail. ·.·- A.~ Y s, ~ ir; ~t
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reached New Yor -· aud ,,as. M'Ut to 1-Ioboktiu >\ Jnai:t
Q.. Do -~·ou ff't-"l c, I t~t111. of tlu~~ fel. ·'t~ \I hi · h ,·on hn ,r·_

·
stat(zlt'l. t1·01 .. th ,~

tat u :.uts of' tho " · \lho 1nt\ -t : 01JsP1"l-td tbe1u in fhe offlc- · (,l f th .~ cou1.l)fl.·llY .·- .. \ . Yes, ~-ir ; \l"l~ h a\'."e 11 ad. h1f{n"1H ntiou cond n _ir dh,· ectly f1~01n th~
interio1•· ~f th · oflicu •t ~\ t..r ,·iu ·•· the _·t·1ik(\ begau.
Q. You J'U t u I f1xun )'lt~ l~• )fl~ e.1n1)lo~,red t.h eJr·e . ·- A I Pl'PS.ll UH~ t bt J' a-r e
eo,1 pl(l' t-d 'h t~f\l~.. J dou t kno,'" \Tho the Jrt1.rties art".
Q. But it ·1~ really e~rt·l'iu thut those - tate1nents. which you ge a.r e
true .,- .t\ ., Y ~, tJi r ; 1u doubtec.l I, ..,
Q And ~·our llrotberhootl .a-ssu·1n _.; th. ;ir tro.st\V'.Orthioe ·s , .a nd acts
llJlOU the· in its etto1.ts for tb,e prolon_
ga: ion of . ,e 1stri e - A. i: ,o·t
DrOO :ariJ~r npon tbem1~
Qi Bu _ npo.n tltcn1 to so·me e-x t . nt !- The rn mbers of :.~our :e1~otherI

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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REL: 'TJ,O XS, HETWEE,N LABOR AND CAPITAL.

hood think that tha is one of file r,e al _lem,e nts, in the sitnat1on.-'tl1at
such del·1;y uot ouJJ~ exist~, hu th.·1 i , i,s incr,e as:n,~, ra:tlier fhan < ~1niu~
i.shin g · ·-.1\.~ l s.
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J--1\" l.lr. (~i-;oRG:E :
<J~ 1lo\\~ i it I I c-1•,easi:ng 1-.-7\.. Ilv the iI n bility of th p:r·eiS1PUt employc.s
of the ton11h1nr to hn11(l~le the b:1si11r~~-, aud by· tbc~fact tlt· t th·. liu·111 ·n of h~" corn pa ny. _h,r, ohl n ud t N-1n•:1•iP1 <.~t~rt line-11('1 , u 1•,, . asso '"iated
witl1 us iu Orr l)lO\"·f Ul~l. _t , nntl it h~ am JUT s.ib]e i( r th" (~0,f U]lUUY to se~
uurt~ nu lll~ it u t 1ilt(.:l.... u11iP11 lo ITtt•-1,, ·it~ Hnr-s ~u ._.. u-•~1 +t i.un. In t Ill 1s ci"t",· it
ordh~·u ·•~..,r It 11uh·, s .. tn tl ir
:1tlu/ 1· nl out our hut dl'td Hne-u1 n to
ke i. v li1c ,rh·Ps in \\·ork inJ· on t~ir; 1unr ·i t sr~u-,,h~ to 1-ea.Kion 'f hnt ,f hen
th.tlt 11 ., u I Iu. r 1 ~f l i H(~~ uu iu ,( ·; 1n 1. ,t ·t l W" ~ , ,t•1111 •l't 01· auy iull'ft •;:1t~ l)·POllortion
of tl1t~zn, th~ h in•s n1usf ~utr,~1 and u1n uy of tlu!nt nuurt J!'.t~t out ot" ort'I r~
Il\,
tlu ~ ( ' lL\ Ut)L\;i: :
•
. ~ . ·, , httt ~n·t" tht. tlnti~s nr n liur,~1nau •:_ , \.. 1c,- ar~ ,a1·iou ., The·
liue--n1 _j1 ·.u·p tU 1,t. '1 ~l1 r~~ t1 i:tl'"P1"·t'-l rt class~ s,, ~YI·uuud-,u~n, cliln l~.rs, bou -,e.,
tO]l~1uE .. U .. tro d)]r-h nil ft•Fs , ofliC'·t" .1n It..
Q~ ~.ntl thost~H1u~~ u1~n an; as ,e s·"'eldiul you uncl ·l>l•~t:u.u l, tt1 th opera..
tion of the h~le~ll'.Ullll as tb.e 011eiator.:s th~mselx ·H ·.. - ..A., Ye", sir;, just as
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Q. _be~ keep, tbe l1nes 1n goo(] vro:rki-ng ord--r ·! -A . Ye ,, · ir; witho,u ,
the lin ·-~Jnl! n tl1e O·p rrnt.i)r , t~onld no ,,··o.1k, a:ntl ,vi•. h .- ut the o,r)erators
th ere ,rou]d b ,~ 1·y little ,1·-01 It tor · b · l 1ne-men .,
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IJo"r do s. the con11~eui. ation of the hn~111ien ran_o-e a~ •conmpared
with tb~ll• of the. t•J>ern'to1 -... -.A. It i:~ much lowtl,r.. ~tlleJt a~.1~ on]y ·. bat
t I1P lo ,,·,t•,s t su la , . . ~.h al I be Sti5 l ~ei· J 1011 'th - T'lI e.y rH ng from $60 to , :05
antl ,$,o a n1onth, and in ·~01n e cases, snub ~1s tbat of a fore:rnan a. rnan
unlJ ;,;_t.'t $00.. Tl1t-"·y il'ro ,com:1>eHetl ·to he . tad~ to go nut at aH hours
un,l in a i st1.u~o~s, to ''- ork. \: '1 rv· lute at, ui:,rht, or v~rJT early in fhe m:on1iu,~, or on SuntLt.y,, or' ,a t ilHY tun , wb~L e l." .bat they m,a y be eaHed
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st~ltt-•1 t"hat tlu. r. 1unb r of ruessa:-,.es Sfi'[l h~- the co npaol"
is thr· e. lJ udred thou .nnd Iler d.i:~·mn le~~ t]:1• H it ,Yns b fore tlr strike;
yon inclncle the ,,Tl1ol .- ·conrntr:v ·i11 tllnt sta e1~oe1J t, or ,Io :~-on spPi .. 01d1
of tlii~ cit,. · ~-A. I ,:ra~,. only ~llP~1.kinn- r f the staten1ent ,of the nine .fl of
the co-n11u1nv, -bat.th·~y ~oul1l tak e ,oJt. ,;:· tlion~an(l nior m,. n ftoo1 amnong
tb,e s,trfkt_1i·.~1 :u nd 1 ,1.Tns slio,.,--in,g that th · increa~~ <i,f· tor~ wonld 1ti¥e
tl1fn1 fiteil '~tie for handli11_g thre . bnndr, tl tl1101~~a·11d messages 1nomaday•
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.A VE{IlAGE, "OJtK OF

Qj Dav: -you

THF~ NEV,- YOR,K OFFICE.

a11y nu.tau· of knowing rhe-a,-erage una' 1bPr of ·rnes, a,ge .

per (hem ha1ulled b~- he. \V este,n1 u ·nion 1 , el ~-g raph ComJJany ·-A.
"" PU in t bi~ local ~t \ it i> fn)tn s.e,~eut i~·-fi,,o ·1Jousa1 d to nine .- ,~thou=.nul, 1 d ·1y~ I au1 spenkin'4! now f J ._ wYork "": i i~f iu onUHarJ tim:es.,
Q, ,\~bu : ,tlo yon think is the prese.tr u 1mlu.~· ~-- A. shoohl tbiuk
tha ·tb . . l are 11ot uow enling out of 'the cit:r of New lo1k-d.o you
mean by· trl ~1rra1~h .uJone !
Q~. ~ ti - • I ,,;- aut to ascertain 'to wh.a t e;xt · ·1 1t, in you.r opiuiou, t e 'bn."i.ness of t bll C.GlHIHlDl in t bis. cit · bas been rft(.l uce.d since the stri kl'.i 1A~ w ·e11, I sboultl sa, that ten o:r fifteen tbonsaud, mes1,a,ges ~l day·
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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RELA TlONS UET''\ ·. EEN LA:BOR A ··

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CAP, T,,: L.

,voo u b). a ·v _1·,~ ln1 ,g,tl e tima'te for fh bnsine sin · b ffiee h :.r, in tbe
ci.ty of N A\V - u ·-· 110,,· ; but bear iu mind iu connec.tion l\"1 11 hat point,
th.at t ·-~g1~t.1ut st yf'f'.cn-t of tbe c,o·m]>·.u1J to u1~1d~y facHitl,es tu tb - :J.lllhHc
has beeu. uu1tlc iu I Lis .·it .-~ 1 b .Y lta ,~~ 1uat1 much .g reater ~a· rt h •·re
than in au:r ot ber 1~~1 ·r o. · tlu: ,tiot111J1·JT bt~ ·au~ t'L ~.y reeo~tJi'zt" tbe fa t
that thi:· i ~·the dt~ ~isiv pohrt ,,tbe lUttl ~gruun(I iu the Jlt"t: ~eut ~;!oute t,.
that
rJ hiug c1t~1,~ull..: ui1 on t h itttion of :Sf.l\" : · otk · 'itv nud t at ~
r
th y c .n necPc. ·d 1u dt-fi~ating tll ~ 1no¥cn1ent h Iti the3· ,, ~II ~11 ··. ed.
C\""el) \\'h ~re. ~or tbnt rcai ~on tbe,y lia ·· wad e -~tr"'tOl'diu:ary ls.f torts to
,g t o,p erator-· 1nt·o (ht; 1u· in ofil ~"' I .· re n:ud. to k . e1• tbe busine· s mov.i ng
a · well as l ~o s'L)l . lH:nl~r t be ~i.1 un1. ·b iuc es.
Q. \\~ba.t dill ,·,o u n11~au l'o IJe, ·1utlerstood as sa,. in°· ,,~a·· ·. l1e nunibe.r of
1n es. Lag, s .. ~ u t flt r t i, n1 bt.~fore th?=strike .~A l ai1 l f r ,( Hu ~
u.t ~ -fi r·e•
·t housand to ui1 et\" thou ·rind a da:r.
Q Ancl 'fl:hut i ·· your ~otima .~ 01· 'lb . pre·s ent 1 nm.h ers u't 1,er dien1. - ·
A.~ .I . ay that fifteen thou, and n1e,~csage,s a day :i~ probabl:• .01•0 ,1 .· · tb·L\D
,t y ca1 band]~ ,viU.1 th ir 1u.-e ent fore
Q, Tb n the bu~-iut,t,s ·m.n "t hnvu fal•.ti:o oft~ trom ftily to i ·t, ~-· .-, e tbon=
RIH.U,l n1, ). sa., es ~1 dav a ·. ~you thiu
- .A .,. .Somew.h er,e in tha. . nei~~hbor~
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-,. 1T hen fot11·~Jifth:s of the wor:k mu · t b 1,~·,e fall ·n oft~ .i'-A,. ., roba'b ly,.
Of oour e I .:un onlJ gi,~hig, ID\T O\T'U 01liuio11 no,r.. I b:r,~e uo definite
iufo1,naJou o o,how .JD'lU.\~ lsssag a · ,ac·t uaUy h·1ndl - l tluring ,n , ,h
da _ but I ba,~. · nio don · that I ca·ug t that in.for1na1ion in t w .nt)~-tour
hon.rs if it i.s desir . J,.
Tl1· CD.AlllllAN•. If .·. ~oo ha,,e a r el"'idence on tba;t ·point tbe . -0m.1nittee wiU b . g·llVI to t~tt:i -el
Tho W11NE;·. ·• I s·h all be glad to g1y .·· the commi .~.. · any information
th.at is 111 m~. pov.·er, if th in ,-.-cs tigation is, in.tend ·d to co,Ter all th se
points . .
Th CH · IR L~. You can a· -um " that the inYestigation ·s int.e tle<"l
to ~o,,.er e,;e·r _"thin.fr that 'bea [i'S, u:pon fb1. strl.k.·~ Nobody neet1 assum ·,
that this in,:- , · .tigation is meant. to be~- ham... l'f' it 11ro"r · to be on
that ·will be hecat1:s,,· those who b iv . the information fail to 11re ent it to
tb .· e.om·mit-tee.
Tb · ,,~1T~ES '· Th · ,r el ·.· no a .sun ·ption on my J'dlrt, or on tbe part of
!h • roth · 1hood, 01· any · n b .'b ing a. · Tou. suggest; but I tl1i~1 k bat tbe
"\\'='·e t..eru union Com1>-au cou1u "'iv thP. co.mnnttee c: great d ~at of vaJ. . .
ua bl .· in for1n ntion :it i't ~·tl 1Id.
Th , Cn:Am1u
l\ , n, .i t .i s Hke] . . to hn,,e an ()pror . nity to do so
before ,,.·e g:et t rough!!,
ll1 "'... rr ·..ES _ • Sucb in formation a You haYe. a~.k ~d nie for in r ~ard
to ibf. a1n nn·· of 'b . ~ne s on~"h·t to come,, I t ·u ~ ('l a:r hL , without
auy di ~re~pe . . to th corozuitte ), from tb .· · offioer.s of th comp'lll y, n. bo
:ha~ e, tu ·. _1xact. figure . •
Tbe. · 'H IR3 1'. l\y· n1a.,, - ,ge ucb inion11atio1t in tba._ wa. · at a la1· r
titn ; but h ~-are aHf.getl g ~~ie · ncet, and here is a~ ·trike en er .d. upon
becaaise icdr,ess ot· those grie,cnic ~,s, is deuied, :and w . . 1 atnra.11~·.• antl I
think logic·· Ily., as .an1e tba tho~ ·, 1\~bo 1:na-- e complaint are ablti i .u(l
,viUing to tate j n.st ·\vh'"it tbeit~ gr1 ,,nuce · are. and tl1 y · do . tate t.b m
:1Ju _, .h 1)0\),h c at IHrge 1 of cour·se a party to thi.. matt r as l. ·e)l .a .· ao.~,··ody else·, aud if it U! no ·.· ~ttin~ ibi w,o ·k doue it ha ·, a right t,o, kuo ·
the -a.ct,, ar1d tb:. r ~a orL so far as theJ"' ean be n .cert~1in a, antl this
oom1nittet· will b oll Hgell to auybo ;' l" • ho ·- ~dl giYe n . an,7 ocb in for..
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RELATIO'.: S B-E"I\VEE

ABOR A' :"D CA 'ITAL

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B J"., -...-r G o»G·E!i!!I' ..
Q,. Do yor a-,gree with Mr_ an11jb 11 a:, to tl1e· uver.ag _ rate of wa_g c,s
Jl.aid to telegraph operators 1-A.. I · .s, sir; thiuk
a mouth it1
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lI.PE~:S .A.I IO ~ri;'-8AL.iR IE'S ' · LLING.

Q.• IJo yon ag1·~c \\"i'th bin as to t'ue iusufti ~ieucv inf' 'that oompeusat ~•Hi ..:-.L\.. \,:ell, a 111 tan ~ ru I lire OH :n 1.11 uc b le ·_ s sn ru tbau S;aJ-a 1nonth ;
l> t J do not con uler tliat that is t 1,e , quc• ·_iou~ A n1,' lD .h a some rights
Junr · thil1l th • 1nc1 · I"i.bh t to exi~.t. l f $-54- a mo1nll will enabl · h.i:nl
tu get hrt·a d ··u1d hn t 1, it do~ , HO , ther-e·tbre fhllo·\v t bat that is
],d llci~nt ,c orupeusntion fur hitn~ 0t1 fti ntl .!Ur~ Ile~ cb r ·. il.YS, thait a,
d0Hn1· .a tlay i s ,q nih~ nuugh. for ·1 \Tor.k iu r tnan ~ UHt J · can g,e t bread
t I.HI water ,,~itl1 i·t . , n1·11l tl.iat th··• t is guod ~uou,u·:h fo1~ huu. But tba is
u ut t I1 t]JUt"'~tioo,., ,: 'Tl I (j UC -~t1on .,:s '\\-- l!et be r ,,~e,. as i ud ix id ut; ·] .. ,. 1)OS ' e~ .. ~
iu~ supt_·rior · kin a nl u1u:~.ligcncf' in oar bn5ines , ~ans ·cur,e 1nore pay
1 hau \\:'C =-tl'C g t i u~- a rd,, i' '\~re, cau ,v·e ar : :n oiug to l.u1·re it \\rhether it
is -:5 or $j40 ''l niouth~
B -\~ "'~,11 1· 1·,}o ' II ,.,
Q. Yut 1don!t u··1nt to 1~ui 1in all th ·. tiu1e in a JlOS.'i tion \ Ii : 1e 854 a
utouth ·,vin 'k •e'], l~on .'- ..:\ . NoJ · ii'; th:at ig, . e ~,lea. \Ve ti -u1 alRo that
h .11~1 :h of ,se1,v1ce, ,,~i.fl th~·,, e · t · rn Union 01u11,a u,~te,:11ds r.a.tl1 ··1 to def.*1",rasl~ than to iucrc;1~ -our ,comp u ·· tion.. l asked my manager 1f
L -n~th. of Nt'·r,~icc ,,,·us t ~tkeu ·i uto co1 ,s id ·.rat1,o n iu the office . iu ft -iug a
1u;1u s · nla v..
U, .. 8i.lit1,, blo • th.nt that. ·b ,ul nob aring on the qu stiou
,rh~ttc, er,, . ~cause fifere ,, a:s ·d,vays a new ele1neut grm,dn•cr up, that
t__.~ ultl l (.ng,:1gcd ·1J,t 0Uably at l ~ -·, r.J.te· of Il"l thnn t 1. old Oll ratois.
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(J,. llt),v ~ bout ilts b~i'ug a f .. tct. or 1o·t : thnt. wh il 'hi ,~ ester l . niou
']_. · 1.eJ:ra ')h .-,Offi[Hlnr w~us [lctyin _()" 11i.g ber wa.a 'fit thilU .it 1n11t,S, :now, its
Jn·ur ts 1\~ere u11uch h ~st-..:\. I ht lit~Ye that iu tb · (ler♦,od towa~d the
•.~lost_· of the war aud for s~nn ., ·ear ,, aft i·wa ~ls, ·ndeed for a nu1nl · r ,o f
11 <t'l''e

uft·~1-,\'fJU·d~,. do, n to l ,, 5 the con1p;u1,~ ,,i"a.s 1~~tring ·11 ucb l1igber
~al·t ·ics il:u ti1-st:-clas~ " ~01 k1uen tban 11ays, at tl1 · 1n·esent tiu1e, aucl tts
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pruflt~, '\ f. . re

I~ - · to a great ,_,x eHt.
Q;, Ha,,--e Jon nny :i d,e a-of the con1pa1ative ar~101111t o·r· perceutage. of
tin~ co1u1,1a11x ~,s }lro,fit then ~, d. at tb,e pre nt tiU1e . • :It i a vur,~
•Hfficnlt n1utter to , rut bold of those stati ti~ , and we can on):,, at best
uta k,e .1 1·ou., h g11e,ss at t ll ~in.,
(l. But the ,,~a,:f ,e~, you ,· ay ""'·ere 2J or <liU ,o r -!O per r~utj 'h ig·heI". - . •
'l h~ wa:f'"c~,. tor iu8tau ·e, iu 18.,3-, iu Omah.rt r.ange-cl at $100 ,a ruo,u th: and
tln~y a.1-e 110,v $80; in ~e·,t Orleans. 'they ·were 812,5 a. ·mont'h, a HI 'tbe,, ·
a:r,e now $.;:;O ;, in l{icb111out.l, , a, -h t .r ·\\·ere $115 .a moutbt tu1,tl tbey are
lU)W $h..;o ruul le~, •
QE ! .nd,, whUe t .: rn·nnt· of the eo1J11pen_y ·h ave largely 1ne.re·ase•l ·i t
]ul Jj 11,hdsb d t'he J>oy of it" operator · ,- · • ·es,, s r; in this ci iY tbe
,v,t,g,,-1·.s which rang, (1 at 8118 to '.- ,l~O a. ·m onth some 3•00,r .: ago are now
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LAnon. GENERA.LL

GJITS BUT· 10 P.E R CENT., OJI PROD

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Q. Is tla.~1t onl. r>.a •·ou. ,vhr yon think your wa~es ought to b .. iner,eased
th-.~ t:aet t btrt the prnti ts of the compa,11 _ ha -re .Jar~ IJ . ucrf11 ~rd. au d
tht·· . . tore th · value o'f ~~ou1 Lttbor to the con1pany bas inc.r.ea~.ed !-..:-\.

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··.. e certainl:y thought tb:it we d(• t rY ·d a hi_r,rrer , lrare of th"" profi · bat
the c.ompan.:r w 1 , makiug than
r@ce·1ved..
011 u~ikf.,d )Ir~ C, mpbell
~ha. pfO}lOrti.on of tbe flrolit.s of tbe •·o·rin11any 'W ~t .s pai~l tQ tl1e op~rators.
T3l· ~_n g tla tati ,h · ot a.n tb trnde(, , J: ~hould a·, tlta. 1 h I proportio ·
pnid to th wo1 ~111 n would ran~e a·b ou1 the-.· .n1c ~ that i ·,, tb·it abou
l O Jler cent. of 1·1 o ,-af11c of th : pr,odnt.t ls, 1u1id to th · 1uen i\ l10 1,ro-

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Q4. 'I h :1 t i8, of fh re.:u1 t produ e d by the , on11 bkl()tl e.ffo :ts of 1a I 01-a u~1 ,.ap-ibd b , ~ha.re tb at tbe ·1ab lrer g-ets i · abon.· IO }lei· cent., h1ki.n g·
on1-· hi lu · trif•· , g n I al 1,,~. ·- A.. . , , , ir..

B'T
,,, J,J r. (T 01 E.:
Q~ Do yon 1.nea.n tln\t, takin,g ·_ b · cos _ to t'b e pnbli of th lu·· iu ·
th·lt- the ,comp.an,. - tlo ., it. ·p,ny , to tbe laborer, · e 011 rator SI in ,e~er:r
~10 ~-~ ~ I me·· n to · a) t11at, a Tiug au th w altb tbat is cre3tt d for
th t.01n1mn,. . by it • 01r rato1s, and ·b al th ·, 1neu wl1om it u · -~~OI tb :
pro<lu ti.on of bat wealth, of tl a., pr- J, <L th. e1nplo ". .1~ec~i\~ ~ ~us t · h:·
sha1 . 11 b ut one~teuth, and capital recei ~-s the rest.. Tb ~ 1tl:ea. au. be
inn ·tratetl ·t little bctt r iu. the de1 artruent , ,o t mu1t 1fact · .r·i g i1ll1U -"·
triti. .. tbrnu~hont t b : 'fl,•hole -_ nit a St tl1 autll T I.ti 01 ie • Tbe 3earll
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vnlue o.f the }ltnduc't of thos · i -d u~tri,e · i .. · ~0!000,000,000 .Ill r, und. Ul1We
b 1·s~ The eo11_1lo~ .. ~ en-ru~• tl in the produc. ion of th.at re ult ree :i -~
$!t!O 000, 000 i11 ,r.arr :1.s; tJu1t i . a li.ttl~ less thau •.· -,000,.000,000!!
1

B~.- the
1.;4•

CHAIRMAN ,:

Tha ., you · ay, i.~ the ~luu

rec·e··v ed h:v tile wage-woirk rs, -

A~ Yes, s.i.t~; th labor r.s tllie " ~- allh ll ·odne~r8.
,Q,. TI,~h re 1na11 \\ orks on b ··s farni ltin1s If hi CODl}l . ns-a t ·on i . no,
iru fud d in fha( state1ueut I s 1r•11ose. ~- ..:\. No, ir; ·, am . p akiug e ·•1ngi -rely of th :_, d 1,art1ncnt or 1uanuta.e tur·i n~ inuus:tr,..
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rl"Ji~ A1ul

sn~ th.at in st ··h indnstr·es the labo1.e1· rec i'f'•f!~. a.uo11~
(•IN~- t .1 · tb or th . ,t t'O~l , .. alue of th~ Jlt,xlnc·t ~.- ...-\... \': ~~.
B:r ti
H, IR:lf.AN !
Q. Is . b i·t~ ~u1~·thin~ cl.::se :v,on d ,~h·t.•· to t•f at I tot 1u. . t·o1nnriitt,e~ ~- · ·e.
"·i.~h ,Ton tot ,U ,·ou1·· •il-e of the eis :~in ii-our own nar a~ f d1:i u.s ro.u
tL sin•..:- ,.:\. . , ,v·f, C!UIJ t~n =tU O 11· ,itlrti' o,t' it iu f \T, 1uimu 1 .,
,-(l can gJ\~
J"OU J)erliclllS · 01ne ,?. ,;fhJla ule lU ft 'IU.il t iou 01' .~(llUt., vn h1··t bh~ ide·1s 1· tbe
t~unr~e of Jt>ll 1· i1.1t estin-,~tion, lH1t s.o f11~ a.~ tht ju·. ·•, 1fit -~it1.011 t•t' ou1· a,cti-ou
in thh; ~ttike bu ·ine s 1~ ~unce1.ued - oir 8id of tl1c a. ~ - can be told. in
1l,T~ 111h1 .1te ~ by U.lJ!f oil(. \\:-- iu111ly .cla1111 th ·igla to· a· as l ba·v,e
d •one-- a.nd v.· claiu_1 t)mat, ,r btt,:e jn tH:ica.ti:cln. for so :acti g, a d t .a.t is
au f ..at we doc. uJn1
(~. What do l'Ot kno,'r abo 1t I e ,. . alo of th p'Jan·t of the w ·e tPm
, ., ..nioo Con.1pa -~ ·~'.._.a_ Notl1ing 111 re than · -bat I ,Ht. ,~e se n in the
ne · · pH]: e1·s; I a1n no an t:X:[Jtrt 10 tb ~tt Uu .
Q. \\ .-..at •it) xou kuow l hon t th ,U ' a Cl iug .. of Ntock .- ...-\ I have.,
·u ut.ortuuntel,:, bre11 forced to ln~o,v SO·rn.etlai.ug about it b~ readina · he
·11e·, t ,11a1>:r
TlieJ.sec·1n t·o be unauimou:s in fhe op'iuioa that th
-sr oc··k of th · " esi ern U 1 ·i ou . orn 1•a-ny has been ,,. a ;e . a to the, extent
ot· ~,65 OOf.l,OOU or ' ;o,000,.000.
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J: :-rERY HELP , CA.P lT'.A L, NOT'.

A.DOR ..

Q. , on know no laing, b we,·er, , bout tbe wat ··riug of tlt--1t. · tn ~:C of

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your o,~.u 'kno \1· let1ge o:r f1·om .t a ·e [)Je u ts. ma.tle to ~o by an~ ufil.c(-i t ,o f
the •com pan.~~ ~-A. · o., si"r • nof 1h _g '"Thate ·er.. I 1""110,·r , howe-,·er, and
can fnrnish _- - ,~·jd· uce " T. hich will probably sat~·(y ·, ~ou,. tbnt. a~)~~t1;u1
1

of tel grn11h lrne~ os

ttnt · . "that o~~u -.itl by the ,,..este1·n
Union ConwJlHH).,, a ~)~st~:rn tlHt t .i l JH.~tform t h: ..suwe . ... rY1P :·in :1 better
mann•,~r th.au the. \\'' · .h /i rn 1} nio 1 J~f'·rforn1 s it, ·c an be· con8h11.c ted for
prob< 1bly o: l · . f'on rt h of' fl1 e a He ~e~ l t··o~;t of t lte ,, ~ stern : n ion ~J st 1n.
I can rnollne . t stiuu:1h~s s.h.o,ring the t:o ·t JJ<fir 1uflc of, ir,e autl of pol.~s
:a nti of titth1,:.r up the l ne anu t'Le geue:ral co~t of ,o n ·truction .
(J. ,,.i l it b@ JJO: \ ·i!bl e for .· ou o Je :. 1s ha\·e tba _. inftn·mation to~.ruorr'Ovr mo-rniug ·- - A.. Y ~.~ ,. ·:i r , I have r nt nry oW·c ~
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J-,y lir" G '"ORGE:
Q. .H ave an~· of t b _, improveu ,enJ . in te]e«rapb.in,g w bich l1av( ·been
mai{e it h n t: h l asit ten yenl'S ]u e.rease-tl t be ·,v.ork j n g ca 11a i t.y of an.
O}lera to - f.' I u other words can ft. man ]110,ir, ·with pr, •t i . ~ I y t b .. sa tne
llkiH, seu,l oft' 1no-r,e ,vortls t han he •oonld ten~ ea.r~ ago in fhe sa-m .
time 1-- A.• :Not at nH,. sir~ I ~la:i u1-I ·i nay not ·he supJlortPd in this-opinion, bu · I huy,e n1ade the snl~jeL't a ~Io ·. study, aud I ~hi.b u that
'l h ese 'in ,·l~n t ions a re .aJI ca }lila I• . a;,· i u g ma hi nes," Tl ey tlo 11 ot ~ urve
labor in a ,r . aJ at an, and. a- , on wl1 . ha· , \\"' a.t(., ltetl bent clo rlr I
claim that an op :r,. 'tor ou. a u1ble (...1~cuit tba-t t ~ an -o perator on h ·
old sys t · m I,efh:r thes:e in \T·e 11 t i,on,s ,,. ere .n ade, cot1 d perfo1·111 more work
than b . can on th s ._ D8\"f inveu'tious; that i~,. that fhe ·:rate of s,pe don
a I.in ·.·_ pre,vions to 'I.be · e hn1,rovem.·.nts. ·wa ~.greater t-bau j ' i :a _ pres ~ut...
'TIie ide -of these in,eu iou ·is,· o ma. e one wire a.ns,w--e·r tlu~ J)urpos of
tw,o, ,o.r· of four as the case may be; tbe labor n11p]oyetl being· just tbe
same.
By the CnAIIDIAN:
Q. Can ,you _ior in ·· ance., end ru01·e words fhan yon eonl•I ten years
ago !-Ai '"· ell, if w bad ·t:h · r,e ~ord,s of .. ome of our old-.tim:ers, a: -tb(\_·
cal them, i woul..l oe found very difficult,. I thi.nk, for any operator1s ntJ'V ·
to exeeed t h · 1n ··11 ijpeetl..
Q. Yon are speaking ,o f en of tile aa1ne skiU., I ,~u:p·pose f -.~ 1'-le1l
of the .saane s ,·H t
·
, Anti yon think that tl1 · n-ni skiU cannot send any mnre words
no·w in a giYeH tim~ than i could ha\- ..s n _ son1e years ago .- A . . '.T'o ,
sir; it canm:ot, For instance,[ I ba,,;e ib e11 working at tbe bu in ~s .for
Jonrt . · n ,years, a ,ti I an p · iect y· c .. 'l ··Hd n · ·.- bat I . io nJd transn1it ju~t
a-. , ell ten J't!:ttfi , ago a ·. I can to-day~
Q ~ I ha. ,t· . seen stat .. _·1e11 ts t 1at i n1r,-ro,r·e d n1:achi ue~ or i n1 en t i ,0-.11. i u
this.1i.ne are H .. --ly to tua te ·killed h bor i0f very· Httle conse(Jn _u,ce in
tel - .-ira})bing; wbat is youropin1011 011 t i's JlOlnt :-A . There~1re iuven ..
tiou - which will probably retluce tb . d,c. man<l t, ·r- ,~Jdllt ,l. labn · ,. 1u~b ~1 - ·
ours, but tbere wiH ·b ,s '"illed labor of ~not h r )dud rer1nir,e ll. T .be iu ..
.·- eutions of w bieb I s.:peak ttre uew· ·. ysten1. of tt•i egrap·h ·t1g- a-ntomahl~
.s sstcms btrt the~ ·win · 'h ll req_u ire · killed luhor to'' 01·k t b~N -lUPU of
iutelli,reu .ie anrl ski[ and ,Jt.bilit~ :.
Q. ·_ ud as. larg a numb . r of intcUi.~en't. ~tlHl sk1H ·d ni,e n ,is .a re ·110·"'"
e111ployed in doing the same an1onut of wo.rl. . ~-A '\ · , ·i r; a nuu1's
a bi.lit •. as a l!t!'legr;·1pb .- r is uot nu~a:sured by ho\v n1an,v t:aps be cau rua.k
·w·1th h.i.s. fi nger 1n a ,ce1·tain thne, t11e1--e are ofuer t 1iug.s to be takti.n
into ,o onsidera.tmon; tor iustance in hanilHuq' (Hspat,elJ,es for the 1-,, ;e~s a
.,. .ery su11 r1or ord.,e r of 1nt:ellig,eot.'€ is require<. as cuw1m1·td ·with tL.;1t
hich is, ueederl i.o h.a ndlin · .- ordina r,· bu~hu.1·ss..
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R L.A'T IO~ .. BET\VEE.:.

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L . ROR A~.D CAPl'T AL-

Q. Wbe·r eiu will be the ad\·a.otag . of the intr-oducti.on of the ~utomatfe
system · - :A .. ·be u(IYnn · ag,e will e to tl1e capitalis . .
·Q. Do . ou think tbat a~. a 1·1de, . 'h ~ a,d ,1'.antages of t'he~t~ ue,,; in., ~·n ·t ion·. acer,. · r~1tll r to th .- ca1,·i tali ~t tba.n 'to the ·workh1jrnJtl 1; I 1nean
tl1 . ad·, ~antage.~of imn[n·o,,~. (I Jinacllintiry _
g ener.i.ll.y f-A,. 'fl1e at1,~ant;1~e6
,a - 1n•,~st nt i' ·1·~ t,e ud ing ,;,, H to · he b nc tit of th.e catiit 1U ·t ;,1u1l •o the
tle,trimt 11t ut the (..lllJ)l!o,·e.
Q.. JJ n t .ma · 1u.1fti-t \\Tonld ►c ghul if you lu Y ,. .givl'n t:bc suhjc-c·t
eons:ider"1t ion to l11ear ~ our ,·ieu· · ~,s to tb -'' q ne,~tiou : Ju \\"lntt 1'.fn.y r·in
a iuo1-e el111itublt~ tli~tl'ibutiou ,o f tt - ndYunt~1g~· . 1't:sntf'ug f1J"'Un1 tJ11e ht, - uti'ou ,o f ·1ahn1·- ."H vi1 b 1nacl11h ~es be Hl<;tdt~ i.~t~ t~t"n tlu.~ o,\~uers o : he
m·achine1·y a1u1 t 1 · h1burt"rs ·v.·bo 01,Jerate it :- .A... ~tl f~ r 38 t~ - ~T~1p1Jiug·
i · coucf 1.·1u_
.itl :rou 1u U8t uo · lo ~; . i.~;bt oi'. tlJe tact t h·lt u lu1·, -~ no ht borsa, ·ing 1nachin r ... in our bu· nu~I- s.
Q·. D·o yon nu!~lu to ~a.y ,, t heu, tbat th _r. ~·,n1u·ov~1.u~nt . ,• lnd :iu\+1.,u~
tions " -hitb a1·e ni·ule f·o.1n tiru to time ai·e of HO ad \·,,u1tagt_1n thtj ,,·aJ
of ~avio fl labor ,~u t.he J) , 1·for.m-ua-:u of · · gi \"'eu au1ouu of work ! -...:\~
So.:m · of' tbe· , · late, inv nti us mar J>etbaJJcS ~av 'b,.hor Roll _e\\h.at~
Qj In ,vhat '\¥a r a'l~e tbev '· la lJd•r -.s vl ng · if the,y do not ~;a ve la'lJor ! A., I su :r _on1e of lu n1 ma, Fia ,~ Ia bor, b It- t ho8t-ba;\~,-· 1 or bee u ad-01,, t d ·,·
so that-t-he,r Int ,··e not aDy direct iuflncu ~e on the q o .. rion a~ p1· · . .nt .
·Q;o Do vou ,ex1Ject fl1·1t, they ,rill ~oou he adopt,~d • wh:r ~ire tb.eY 110
ndop;t,e d ·.·- - ,. I fane~r 'the r ;1 on ·v{h~- they ·will uot be adopt,e d to ins·
,:reat : x t ut i , t lJ at (iu n1 ,. opbnon) t h.e })res.en t SY s t,em t:,· l n n.@l""•e-r 'be
~xcell -t.
Qt Wb :r ·in does tbe auto1na ·ic ~y·-.,te1t:1 of telegrnph iog· differ fro.in
'the presen,t ~Y~ en1 :- . ... .• t llift' lrs, onl'J' in tl1 · matter of .a ,~·j IJ;" t be 1it t le
im _· oceordeu . in tr~1nsmi · iou.. ~\ •. reater am.ou11t of la bar ha ·! to b done
to riot the p1·otluc of f I e automatic ~yst m. in ·s ha1•e to be deliYe ,e d t,o
the pu bU cj In the au tom atic ,S yst~ n I ti m . is. ~a , ,e d in t 1·an rs.rnis~iou b,w;
11,r eparing in adTaD · e .n bat' 11 of bos1nf~s -. to. lu}, ~eut, but it bas .all to b .·.
,,re.p ared befo,1'e ¥OD ·, an stn rt to e·nd it.
hen i · is pre,p ared yon iu . · -rt it in the i m,1,,ro,~.-c1 rn a,cbi r ,er-1 n.1ul ·i , 'i.s t 11 metl out ,·e1~ a nid I\7 at
the. otb~r · nd of -the line; ,~here, how ·., -er, tbf f.tan,e s,~s .eo1 of r ·.~preJ>arin.' - it bas to be gon :_ tl1r-ougl1 again, 1rl1 . r o· by the ol(l s,rs· e111, the
Jlr,e sent. sys.tern, a batcl1 of eorre~)lOI dence is handed ~n ·1.t1cl pnt upon
'the wire a.nd harided ont at the other end jns t as it vra,, ~coivt ,1 ,, ancl is
·r ~rlJ to bP tleH,. . e1 ·_ cl -~ i ·hou any· additio1u!l labor,,
Q. WJ1at yon a-re ~a.·ving , moun s to tlu~ e-xprtssiou of the ophnon.
t -a·t t'her, · i' - no -- likely· o bt:. an~;, substantial i1n11-ro,· m ut h1 tele·,grn1lh~
111 tbe it1.tor -. ;; bu· w · -w ·re· s11~akiug of tl1e faet tbat the capitali'"t. gt_n ~
eraUy rec i, e at ·p,re· eut a ll or ncari,~uH t]~1e b. uefit tha· i:s,tler.h t d fro111
labor- ·-aviug machine~. No·~ , b-. Y -), 3 ou cou~ill . l'etl tbt: qn@~tiun bow
there sb a]l be brought about t more eq uitabl _ (]i ,-isiuu a ll~ tvreen tb0
cap.ital~.st;__tbe. machi e o:w-1 _· r-au(l the laborer who operates the ma=
chine,, of the adran't~,g . s to _I? ._ d .·rit'et~ from i.mpro,·"t·d n1~1chiniery-l
mean ge·ne·:r any in indnstrial life throuorbout the ·onnt.ry .~ - ·_ . I ard!Jr
·k now bow to aurn1-er t.b.nt qne tion. ·
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THE DENEF]TS OF LABOK-S · ·VIN·G lIA ·-OlIINERY~
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Q.. ~~or insta.uee1, it ·i s • aid tlu1 t du1·in g the last dft,y , .ears labor- .aviug
inv,c ntio·b s hfl¥e c,om .- t ,Ji do ·n in &tentl1s of th .: or'k in m~11n1faeture
·w·bich was. form1erlT d,o ne bs-· anUi\l laJ,orj This machinry is owned
by cap,1.tal, and if all the ·p ·ro:fit of the m.acb.ioery go...s to, the ca pita.list
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that etims. ·t o bu unjust to 1abo1·.. ~o,"·, baYc Jl\U an,~sugge.~tion. . to
1nart• RR ·t o hou. a n .urr eq.nitable di8tributi.on of the benefits of tlii-.· .1 m1n·o,Tt .l 1unebin 1·y eau b brou;?,11.t about!-...-\. I claiu1 a an indi,~iJnal
1 ·l !'}l t f' a ht 11or-•. tl ,:·i1~g tn.acbine 1n ~reasPs th~ JH"O<l11c :t, · cal~acity of capiht I tb 'luan \i bn in\"eut -<1 fb 1nncb hie n1u~
1 tlie n1c-tD ·" ho o >-rate;.~it
,~It.Lon d re~ i\·,p nH tlle bt n, fit~ f ia ,1;i'J , nee ·nt." ft.,om. it.. For in tanc , if
·1~~-the 1n·trot1.uct iou uf a l·t b -•· -s1: ,.·h1g uuu:hiue ·t he H~:1 n1e 11 uantir,~ of wo '"k
. '"Ul 1 •· ttu·ue<l ont iu tn·o ho1u~- t t Lit t ~1n bl~ ,Ion bJ llltUln· J 1u1'or iu teu
'bt ru· ..·, tlu.•n I ~,1y th · t,bo:rer l-o d.<~ bl 1~q li.r d tu \\",01·k nnl:r · \1~0 hou1s .
c·hthn th·1t tlH~ h nt::fits, of i:1: ··prov,t d uu1cl1iu>··r y ·ui b i
strihnt d
fu i l'l1\· I•, t .~- ~l..,Ul,U!! tl.u.: hours of la bur.
( J,.• Tbe·n ) ' Ot11 1dt~n t~. tbtt tl1 _
.1 . 11'~~1cb1ues 11oulll ac,e1 ue wlutll)· to the
~uJ,..·1ut·1~ ~ of la.1,or hl8'fea~J of\\ boUr tu tbfc ad,~antag~ of c;JJ~ih~I, il ·1
·1•n ~t' HL I1l.u1t. "~ouhl 11,(n·(Hy br i ii1Jr tli,·.i~iou · .ith r ,,·01 Id 1t,, br t llStf.
111
~a1uturst. cou eruct. ' t l1 ·" 1:nachiut~ doe u~110 _......... A, ' 0 - 'l i- ~in; i' i~
·i11Y,t ~t1h!d and t!on · ruet-i,.1 b,· lnbor .
•
t 1.. Dn . h e~l'l)i a.Ust f-lrnwsh~s tb moucr wlli · . p·1y: t e wa~ ·~ which
th{~ h1bo,1 · r rec iY "·hil . h t! iis ~,on.:--1r'IL chnt the 1n·1cbin~.- -~; ; b .1t ·b e
tu· H N th 1uou s in tht~ th st 1,1~,.i froru ·J ,e la borer..
(l• But ii luts ah ad.r ac.~c1unn t~ ~ d ~ c·~aJ)i rd, ··1 ti assu -1• u,,,. ti ff it
1 ( lol'lgs to tht . c:. I it.ir~{ , do ]"OU uot thillk that 'h - no~h'i to ' a,·-~ .. om
~·h~n·,. in tbe. b uc. ~t d rJ,·l d fron1 'the irn11,r o,," cl tna ·,,tLnery t:'or \l\~uicl1
lu. p,tJ s ,.-'-''-~ J.f h~ lul , ue ~u n1 u]ar ,d :1 00.u y to bu ~Id tb ma ·h.i ne i't
1uu.~t l.11·\vc he~n t ~il-eu out of labor
ansl' tlt c;.1Jlitalist J> rforuus; no
1,1·~ 1c luC' i ,.·,e labor h:i1nst l.f,.
(.J~ Th u ha:s l1e n11y l'i< ht to tb.ll1capital tLa lie rto ~8- s ~.e~, ..- .~\.F Un ~
· t i· the yst 'llD .fn ,,·hi ~b \,·e i,~e ~•t 1n·
ut- 11 b·t tlll ackuou:1.1(1ge i
J•j~J• · to the n1ou~s u' hich lt 1>< &'·st~·~ ~N.
• tJ~ IIo,v doe. he :re·t that ri;_;-'b ·. ucco:rding to you:r t toor,. ¥ H doe.
uot do any work ~o-.i ,: ~. .~ f-'"'~- nd ·r fbe pre· .. u . )S u ot~ JlElVern ~
1ut ut, or ol :p olitu~ul -cnunmy., lJ :. bet · t1ve1·L thing, a:ud t.b uu\u wlto doe-·.
tbP ,, or ·~· g _· ., just ~u:; Uttlo u;-,. the •t'OJIHt·tH:st CiU. 1u1t hitn otf witb~
(J. ·. bat is ,, hat 1 Lln a "ki n~ you ,l bo , an.I 1 " ~ish tu k]10\1r ,,~bethe,r
:ron are n.ble to Jn.akl~ =:ruv :sn," ~ :st.ion ·1.~ .o h u1eaos b)T which
i 1.ore r-quitablo d1Yi · ion cau be lu·ougl1t .tbout b . tweeu th _ cu 1, ·taUst
u 1u 1. the la boJ~er o I" t l 1,e b~·nefi t dt 1i 1 · cl ft.0•111 ·IJ c irn pro,~t,d m.ae hi n · ,~,
,\·I1 ~ch is novr b .:i n~ 1,r.oduc d ·1111 the tin . , .. . . . ..,.\... ltat :i- . , v · -s difficult
Cj nf st ion ; u~b n th t.l't t}U t iou .i s .an _·,ve.r _d ·t 11 . " hole J• bor q ue lion i-,
,sol\·. d hn m ~ tHa t ely. ~
Q ,, ell, if yon 11nYe iltP{ , J(:;\v·s uiJo· it th.a you th~nk of , ·du. · w
,~l1·1ll be ~datl to ha., e Jo 1 ~t~.lt fbem, a. tl gh: ns the fa i•t upo, ·w hich
,.·on base the·1 -eithe.· now or at tl la ·.c1~ thn · .- \.., lf,you. ar,· going into
th:rt. g,e nera.l questiou i11 tl1a ·w a ... I ,, ould bk , a Uttle furth,e r thne 'to

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\till r .iad to you th _ 1~esolutiou undef' whieb ,rl~ are actiug1 so
·1b ;.i t ,:.-on t:uay bav ~ an id a of · be ~t.o}H!l of" our invea .i;;ration, beenu·, · w
,h ,.-ir tba t.~\ e1·,· rc·- i·1ble i~~r~on , hn h~,s into ·u1a tion to gi,. · , ·:s on the
~ ., ~i t - -:matter ,o f our i11,·e:sti 1 atiou. sh·i 11 l t u· ha,:,. it, either bs , ..-olun
tai~ily app ariag 1, f~Jir@ ns or }lnttiug u . i.n the ,,·aJ· of c~ll.hng hi.m i ; a
,,•.it n e.-.. ~
~
The resolution is in tbe fi no,l'ing tertos: "Resol" etl tbat -t Co1nmitt •t~ on E,I1 cation and ~: bor i- · n--rcb:v au• bo1~ized a d. directed to take
into cousi,d eratiou tile .· ubjt' t of tbe. r ·•lation b t,,7'ee:u labor aud capit~ll b~ _ a_
ges :rrnl ltou1 of labor~ the c,io1nlition o:f t'h lol o i.:og~·classe .
in tb . nited..State. a.1ul h ir r bttiv,e ,e ou(lition aucl , nge · .•:1 -. eom1.1.arrd
"t ·h. similar cJas ~·e s abroa~ , and to inquire ·i nto -the clivi ion betw -en
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l~ELATJO)\ . llET'\ ,,ffi'

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labo~ iuul capi.tnl of their joint Jltoductioos in tbe Gnit,e d St1tes; ato
th - snhjt.ct of Jabor· .trike~; t,o ii ,q.nirt into tb ~ aus s tbe1·fof aud tbe
.a -encie~ producing th s~11n ~, autl to re11ort ·w bnt I. ,g is]atio1 should
b~ adopt d to 010d it'y or ttmo,~~ sncl1 ca n~Ps aud JH'Of"ide agaln~t t b ·ir
1~outinua.n,ce or r1: . urrence; as '\YeU n~, anv other le 0 -iish1tiuu en. lcm. lat fd to
1rron1ote barn1onions rein t ions b~.t tfecn Cill ►1 tal1st~ nnd 1~1 hul't'i iS,, ar d tbe
iuttJ',t'~'ts of both _bf the inTf1roYenu~nt of' th . condition of th :lj .~1iulu~trial
-cla...:sli. s or ·he Un:t d 1St·rte:s~~ ·
~ on\ I ba \ "f . b~eu told that ,T
ou J1,a,re giYeu considei-a ble ·tl1ongh : to
his ge1u iul ~:-ultitt:·~t, Dnd t:tf. another tim-c I shouhl hkt to a:sk. yon ·~ou1 .
fntther questions in ··-e lation 'to i ·...
'f he WIT~E,s~.. l wi 11 t1·y to nn wer., a . w 11 ns I eau - a.01· ·q ll • .t ions
h , -comm i i tee nla .v a-.s k _
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of the, alue ,of" tbei aaeuev · f tnhitr··ttiou
a~ i l 1uea n~ •ot· s..-curin.~· a n1or,e equ'itable dis.t1•r uti•<JU o:f the joiut pro-·
ducts ol l,.1.hor H nd cn·1>i tu L Do y ,( u ·11ot Ji no,,r that in ]~u~land fhnt ~,s.
ten,, hn.,; beeu a,ulo1~ted a~. , a rueau~.of adju~Un,g·dis1~utt:s ln~tweeu , . apit~t'I
~uul ahoi :,UHi flult, it lu1s dhniui.x,hecl vei,· l~u-~l~],:-; t ju~ lnHnber ot"
~tri k'2:~• - · ·. . ¥ ~ ·.,. :sir; but th,f r -~ i:s u dUticu t.~ in this eonutr], in ,g ettin.~
.. eapilaHst~ to a.ec , r,t arbitration as the) lla-ve a(~ •e.p ted ·i t in -nthei~couu
tri~.~-~ 'fhe~on] r .a.1 b1'tra tiou in thi · ·.X>untJ"r i8, f"ort"le., l t i , nsed. bJ." tl1ie
e~qdt~di~t in t.Vef')"' ,, ,
pos~ihl a.l?~inst the eu1ido~re. und th · o.uil" Ft'·
iSOI that i : ·1etl to the. laboring n1an i a ~ trik e· If" tbe 1n·etn n t 0011r~
of.' capital in t'his cou11try· i -, p~r-.~t ted iu it wiU 11robal.l]:~T th·ive the lr,~
bori n_
g· ·1nan tu · ~on1 tf mi'ng ·b e.ro11d strikes ; nam, ly1 .I " . \"'o lntiou
By Mr . Cidl:
Q,. Doe ,:our 01•,, ~tniza· .·01 ~onten1p. late anv le«i -lattt·e .·:u•·ti'ou b.1~·'tln~
~ ,ta.tt 1 go,, . rum uts or b~~ the ; -·e deral Go,."' -111mP1rt . :- A.. l\1 t - loo,J._ for·
Yt~i·)~· littlt· hent1·fit from lcgi:. -lative action . . fro1· the shn1•-e fae-t that th,_
~a1,111tf luds .a t pre· -en al . a'b le to 11urcha ~ legis.lat·or~. bodH:r~
(J:. Do rou. -tonsid. · · tlnt-t ·11er is any practi eaJ 1ne-asure ,,·it-hin the
r~=-tlth of legislatio11 ,vhich woultl ben. tit .· ·our au~~· f-Am If 'th~re i.~
suct1 .a tu tug ·•s a ,G o,.· rnm.rut, and if it Jut the po\V·(l'r of a (1·ovel.'nme11t.,
ii'rs po ,v,f,-1•1. i.~ ab~oh1 t e; tht; Go,v·,e-rn tn nt has the l)riv ~ 1ege of" i . suiu a
nat,, auul ,~ bHt :v er it 001n1naud . sliuulcl b ob _:~J,e d, or el e it is uo Gove1111·ne:n t.
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- ~~ B,11 t ,\-lu1t a~ to t Ii@ r1a.r ti~:nhir forn1 of leui ~.-ati,~e act ion tl1at ,:rou
think d(i~irab ~ ,.~.A~ ,8-( 1·t~1·al sugge~tions ba,-e b · n n1ade upon whi tb
thr· Go\~,t; ru1ut·ut 1n ii.~ bt prour~,h1.~' a ke· , ·•c tiou.; ~uch . for in~'lance, a~. tlJ ·•.
ri~ducti'on of ·t11e hours o:f btbo1·.
Q ,,~oul~l yon ,~u~.AEist ~ln~·tlJin: as to the .r egulatiou of thl1 ,f '"Ol.lllpeu~r,t-i(,.-1 _of" 11·,l•or ;'- .,lm I tlo11' . tl1ink th~ Gov,t lrt ·11 ··· r,t C() l.lc'I Url'i\..(' at a
~af ~fnctor~y ~ ttl~IUt lJ n:f' rluit 'IH stiou" T :h at i the ,~iti I 1mint to b(i:
R•· 'ttl,e J in thie ·u,JJole 1n.~ lh.~r, the ,q uestion of bo·\t- nnu·h of tht (•011~ )ined
11ro<l net -o f I a bor au d ea11it~d labor· is e nti tl,,ed . n ret~~ t, e .":l n cl lunr 1n uc·h
ca11ital is ntit],e d to r-ec -·iv~ , Yon ,viii ti111d lahoriug· u11tn who claim
th.at tbe·y are. eutitl·c~l to ta.ke it aU leaving •l~J.>ital nothing~
Q., I unde1;~ and that uo JJore,r has be(l!n a .« reed Ul)Oll b,-m,YOll)'i organI

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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r.u ·_,,~11 t h · 1 ~•n1-fh i:a] ·~:u tl1is " ~_., ,. : tlu_ la\\· •on]ll, fix l\~bat perePuh.1.~·~ , ·f
t'(i u q i, 11 ~:r~ i.t · u ,·a J1Ual ~honlfl "l"tt~ ~, ,.. ,t for its h1,·r ~tnn 1· of a .(J'iveu suu1 ...
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o ~· iu Hnl u v of t Ir ·'latt-~ !-A. ]{a t~s
, 1t ·:u t •·r . st on u iUl:U.· )· lo:.u u:·•I ;u•~.. ~t '. (·d
•n t tlu ,1· is uo ltll,gn l ltro,:-i~iou ilS
1 o tlu~ a1uou n t.i ,~H in vt·~t ('~,t] t·~ ·1ti L,J ~J1~ 11 t ;J k.t"' f o it$elr.
]J.y ll l". J>1~f II ;
Q'" J)o Jun uu . ti i,nk ti ~1t u· our (,,cvrt 1·n1:u ut Rl1onltl nndt~rtak _ t ,o
1l~i-:u ht t~ nu1tte1 ~ ,or that k iud, tl1( 1u~i~•t~~-., if h~ bor Hnd of 1,ro,··1aion,s and,
of etnn mnndit u~s grur ra 1 :,·. i1t ,-rou •I lU'lU 1u cP an in~ mnc.: ,cH~ttP ·r ,.,..,, ·olut-·~ou -~·\ . i ~o.. I thi n]i i'l in:eonld ~fir Hfi Un:' ,~~t J~i ;11H~i ~ ~ Iitt lt hn t it ,~ronld 11ot
ru.akP n re\ olu1 ion
] V tht~ ( ·1tA I lZ.ll ~\): !
(J . ,xho i.s . ,o dt•t*i,,h: ,,··]u ,..,., t'HJ~ttal t-i. to 'l•t~ in,~,e sted n1 ◄:1(-1 :"iilH~h n ~Y~-,
r~1u ~ ---'~- '1" 10s ~ ,i·ho \\"isl . to in Vt. ,s t it~
<l. Tl t.y do uo,,~ tlttc;ide JuL q ne~tion and t lu:~-1- oftti'n i u vtst their
ea l)i1t al ,,,·]H},1• . it i!s i,.oat~ So,,_.,. is labor,, , h ic'h at llre~e1 't pa rta k~s of t be
·b ene'lit of tl1is nn11,rofita.b .' inYt1tn1 ' nt of ,,■ apital, to 1el1• to maf~,f : u1~,
rhe lo s of the. uapii. al :50 dest-r-o,yed, o,r ,·u1 t iu u,npro:tltabl:r. iu,etit
1nents - - , . a ,~ e yon in ·J nuce . w Ii ere sucb fbings ..~
·1,. e taken Jllace ,• .
Tb · ·• llAIR"M N. : th+1 k it i~ uot an uncomroon thiog bat. 1neH in,:~.e t
their -e ap'ltnl w]1er they lose it ..
The,,~ TNE:SS •. ·T h n you. clu~ ·i1)7' I !ihnate bu -i ne -s enterp.rf ··· ant.I
~pt eu atfon, together..
Q. You .urr - ~ t that. Go, ern1nen · 1sball ·f ix, the rate of eompeusa't 01
whif!b ca:piml : liaU. r celt,· wlu~n ·inv-e ted.. Now., if that i , to be done.,
ancl if you desire ·o haive ·. ts,ystem ,i·bicb ·will work fairl , nJl the 1¥ay
round, mu .,t not 'the Go''\ erumeot guarRntee to c~pital , rbereT"er it i~
inv-ested that rate of oompensa ·.10 wlm ,lil1 i fix
For in:~tance, , on
p,r ovid. ~ hat capital sbaU rece·i v-, ~ 11er cen _.. instead of 6.. Now, if th
fl overnment 1say · that ea1>i , I RJ b al I have no g:r, a:tfi,r ,g ain n 11,f le r a H~T
cir . tuustanoes, ;.ban 2. per et·ut.,1o 1.ght not tbe ,G,o,,e,rnm~nt to gua.rfl11te~
t-ha t capital uo · on l :'f a.g a i us. t t lu.~, lo .. s. of tb ~ 1,er .·,. 11t.,, b n.'t a I.so against.
tbe lo JS, ot· itself1-.~A.t Isa~"" l ,ou lni,~t.. a,~ ry ditlleult 1natte1 to deal with.
'there, and I 111 ,r ely sug~"'P _t this as a .' ay iu ·. ,bi, h tl1 ditficul -y could.
probabL 'b e 1net to son.1 ~ tx'teu't but it would, ha e to be ,,rork.ed OU't in
deta-H.. ,,7 e ku.o,;v no, a~ a fact that e· ·pit.al recei,Tes mo~e than i"t
should ·recei,T,P, w·hile labor .re ~eives .-e1·l~ 'lnuch less than it s·h.ould re...
ooive of the jo1nt 'Jlroduct of' the two.
Q.. It L undoubtedly o iD wnltitud · · of eases, bu.t ha,v1e yon any
data1to kho,\~ the a\ e:r ago income of capital hrougbout tJ1e co-nntry,,
Whl!tl.Jer it is 1 - '', 3, 4, ~ , G, 7,, or , . per cent. , -A,. I ,c a~ _gi, e you . n
1llnstr·1tion iu .a depa. .tnu~n't "hie'b '. mbr,a.(~e •· 11robably ·11 the, skilled
labo1~ outside of our p1·otession~ . ·e cla~m ·o 'b e eugaged in a peculiar
skille,I caJJ1 . g.,, bllt outside of that I can give . 00 exact dat~- ·u the mannfactu 'ing br.-c1ncb :- s o:f iutlnstr:r,, and :fou. cnu probabl:y dra;w as fair a
·conclus on fromn tba t a . in all .. otb r way," Ther . ,are in the U ·n ited
State , aud Territories 250,000 estal)lishm,. ot · eugag,ed in manutaetnring
indu tri e,,s.
.,
. ,V EBAGE PAY OF' MA' UFA.OT ; NG ,o ;. ·BATIVES.
u1H1 l sf ,}u,~ h'X,Ptl
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an Ufl:·1un nu~t nr~ u~ ··nd u. ~tri

~ ·; uot ifu~Jud in,g 1·::r·i• ad ru r.J l hul ustrifis,
. xeept nf ,t'ou Is•~ , the u, au uf~u~t lll'"t" nf t!l1 :,!:-1·fr·ul -~n•·~• · t~ •ol~ HlH t i 1_ 11 l,..n.ent .,
:So,,~, in 1·lursc ~-,10,UUO ~-_,,.,·a bHshnu -u t-... t ht~I 'l" ~I rtmi a'j,01 ,U_(IUO ·t p lo~

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Q . \\T~~t•-,vo1·k~/1·~ ~-- . \ ""tll~. ~.h· · I Lt t•··11~u-~11 ~n\"t .:·tt1d i~ ,; hout
~ :! ~100,,000 . 0 ,tO ( ~ ht ·~ t a 1·t f1u l .,· rou nd nlun bt i·s )1~ '] ~ u· v cl I n t""· •1f t·1: i ◄i' nu-1t ,-~l"in 1 n.s,t .. • I i 11 i·1u.· con 1·~,p nf ~, ,., t·ar i s a hou t @;J .ono UOO,J ~OU. ~ ,,r 1u·o·t •a I tlv
.n Ii ft l~ o,~t'I. l "hp ,~.,.!.lint~ of t tJt t"OU1 hi Ht d product's,, that isi t iu" 1·e.~u it1'

1n·ud .i~e,l b,r tlH~ ('",lldt~ll i1n~·(-A·~t~(, ~nu'I Uu USP of t b ~s 1nnt,p1·~ut ~ ·nd
fbt 1~1 btn· E:•1'111 ►l t 1.\ ,et i., 1t1]nu 11 4 ~ . tt,, ~·11l1nut sti~t}! l,l'tJH l{t(HHt JlP 'i' :1·111,11r ~ '1,l1en
.J OH h.a ,·.p -,,.A'i,.UU0 10UO.,UUO \\"Orth of l r, i• hu··t·~ p ·t ·odnt•( ti mu a ,\ ·ear.
"Xow
tb ' 3~0,~u ouo t- !Ul►,l o_r,r ', ,g,t •t tu~ the11· ~1rn·e ur tlti~, 1n·o4ln(•t ~n,o,ooo,ouo.
u·ti ,·b ntu]~r~ tht MYt•1;1go pa~ of thu ,~,01lit1rs in tho~,~ •h:·pn:rtn ,t nts of
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iud t st 1-~,- . t l out ~;J.J:6

O·. ,-,. ~.«lt is "'bat t ht. lnborer get.~•~ .•'"'o'\\~ " ~hat doe~ th · tnJlitn u~t
g t !-1l. Capital gt~·h■; tbe rest~
Q,. ,, t U ,1~ll(lt is 111,l, res ·~ Yo-11 -ay tlu~re i~ abtJn three 'biUi~_,n 1n'p ~. ~t d. iu ra'n- u1ateriRI then , ou. ha,..e, ano -he.r billion or t·11 ~reu.bont~
w h i b ' rroe~ to }Ul,J, tl J.~ "' or'k m,en • ' h :l t m,ak -· tonr l)'il I1on. ''' 0 - 1 · ha 't
:i~t- ha ,·e xou ; ,,.hut do yon ~ay, i·s th · ca I• ~tal iu.v·e sted in those ~:i0,000
estu l>•li~bn1E.Ju· ,~ ·f - ·
~bout -.2 500,itHlO 000.
(j . Tba , .is tihe au1.o uut of the fix:e,1 <,a.pital .. A. ·Yes, ·. ·i r .
· ··, - o,,.. ;,yon tldd to th 84,000,000,000 a suitable rent tl i nlome 'fro,1u
th • fi xe<l •a:p,ital- an,l a nitil bl · rent or· 1nc..ou1e or iuterest llllOH th
m o,,. a 1Jh •apit·d ot S 000 ,iOOO,.ooo,, and. v., li ~it el
have ·yo11 to eater
1,,:roJlerl]t h1tu the •·os . of tl1i'·. f6,000 ,O(MJi.,000 of 11rodn -t; bave _you tignred that ont ·•·----.c . ,V'e ha-"•te notl1it1g to eut . r.- into it ·. x~ept to deterru ine tlu_. p >-rcentag- 't hat shonhl be allo , t~ for tb . ad111ium strati, e. ab,i it,. of fh C3fljta·l ist..
(J·. Tb~ int~.re: t or the fair rental for the fi ,f)d. ca1,.it~ ,1 of two•and •
haJf b!,lion. ·, you ,,·aut to con .itler that . - ·~.. · es,. sir.
(J,~, Tbeu you. w. n.r, to ,Q'.]\: e a fa*r 1·utc1-eii;'t or ~tu
OL t ·,
,,0 00,.000~~
000 in ,:re t',~d in i•a '\ l n1a t •·1ial, do you not f'- Ai Ye~~
0. 'Tbt""·.11 1 af .er ha·\'."JTI,tY at" d.,d. those ·t wo item, to, your .· ·4,000,000 000,
,r11.ic b yon. alre.a.d y h1t'\ e (ronr l:t bor anfl JOUr ra ,r· m·1terinl) tb~ remit i uder ig " ·bat goes 'to capital i11 on forn1 01· auother, bn that I n ,dcrs taud, you ha¥ not fi . u1~ll -out, .. - ,A. · o, s.i r, not in that " a ·\·..
Q. Y 011 get about a biUi:on, don't Yon , -A.. I ba,.T 11ot fi~'l red i out.
(J.. So that your c~dcula.t ion bas not br.ou urht l on · o an) d ·,fini.t'J; · d~:;t
of· the actual J)t-o6t to, cnpital ;gene,ra.11.~· in this country a the pre,s~nt
tin1 . t_..:.· .. No, sir; nothinr mol"e t 1au t.b.a it show·s hat " ~h ·1~ 3,U00,000
of wa,o,·e-worke .· re .. [\"'e l •■.: S tl1an $1.,000,000 in wab~s, n 1nnth less
nnmh r of 11ersot1s, flrobablr not o,--~r ~no,.ooo, one-ten.th or·one-fifteenth
th .· ntunh · r of th .- .· ·orkiug 11eople, r,ecei~· a far great . r- sum 1:or tbe.ir
com lJl'll~i tion.. ' b , ea],-,. nla t.io:n s bO\YS t be iu qu lit 3· of t be 11 n-~eut t1is - .
·. 111bntiou of ,ltP wealth tbrrt i , 11,r odue.-d. b ,:v th - joint action of ea1lit•il
,n1<l b1·bor. .N,o-w be (1;t1es :io · tts o wba.t Jl~:r,e euta~ · ca1tital shonltl
Jut ve is .an 01.r ·:n oue.. \'\ ! e J'{now ltat tleatl ca,p ilal h:1 ,,?orth ou]~T a •ont
:2· p · r eent,
Q~ I u .a not be - to
it is -e.u l l · t li is q nestiou.: '' Who wi 1ui a .g reat
batt e,, the geuer.al o , .-bo arn1y h cou11uand~ ," In. fa.ct,. they both
·wiu it toi ther, !~tr'·t the~ ., altl1ou,gb . the g,e·u ral. g ·ts, more tbau half
he credit.· - · . H·e ge·t.s ~- great d,e al more , b9.D th t~ He ha .· varion ·.
pri'vHeg~s f'o.r social enjoy,nent-s, ad .a.11 · ges,, and eu1:olu.w ·nt , w·hieh
nP.ver aoorne to bis follo,vers..
Q. Y,es, that is all true; bnt~ on the o her l1and, it is :a question
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·whetbe1~ there an~ uot ~ou1, ·. c .1npe:u~ation·, on the other s,i de; whefber,..
for iu tan· .· ]1e doe,s Dot often have to ""'ork tw nty.four :h on ,a ,Jay
ins.t, ~ad of ·-i,g ht or ,en~ Do yon think· tu.a t such .a stat uf things.

should cxL t as would Fe'~ult in an qn,al drri~.~on of the pfotlnct of cap-.

itnl an(l l 11ior betn efin fhe laborer and the c;i1.pi' al:s .'- ·_ .. _ o, sir; I
do not thu k tbere is an~f .m ore ~1u1 ty ,or justice. in that than i1 the

J• ~t~~-eut s.3 sterni
Q'~ \\ hat you '\\7'a ut, tb :n- is h·i ' ·l abor sha.U lu1,.~ euon -·h to 1u,:1J~e
it •eIf r -aUy ou tl tru i~~ ,coni 1·01 table,, un<. to Jun\!ha~e ail tl 1e enjoy men'f's
and 1u i,~ilt g · ~ o-f tlu~mo ~t ~ulY:;1nc . cl cit~iHzation - . · • abor i,~ only n_ k
incr uow thnt it ~iia.H b . ;.1Uo·w, d , otue of tile ad·,7anta""es nnw enjo~yt:(l
bv i:t, eu.1 pl yrrs.
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' JI.A. T LA DOU ,,, AX~
rs.

Q,. ,,. .lui,,t nd,:--·u1tage. ·

n I Pr t an it bas no d0e~ labor s -k .'- .:\.
Tl1e : iA'.llt, aiul fh~ op] tru'tuuit,,. to H .·, e in b{_tt,e·r q niu1er~~ ; he ti.g ht to
•t1 njoy b ttcr op1>ortnuitiP,:, fhr ·1nenta]. i.oc~al anrl 1,bysi •al impro,1 euieut•.
,,,.. e k 10\Y · hat iu ln ·g · c ,utt..1· like ~ ,t '"' 1: ork City ·w or nten a.r, , <~011-

u~n e.d to 11 ndd]e t o:t~"et he 1 ·in ·s or ·1e J~t1:·t ·. of 1:ht city ·in. pl.a oe s ,\~lleJe· t her
ha,~t~ to pil~~~l, ta:s: tor tbe Htth~.-uu· igbt aucl fl·ezsh air tlli.at , l1el may be '4'. Ille
to ~·,e t., ,, .., el::dn1 tbat-tlu: la bot~: r i entitl~<l to · JI th . ,1 ir and an the
.~n nlitl~ ju~,t ,ts uni ~ ·1 a~ ~ i,s ,t ·lUlJ•loyt J. .is ,·n1tl l,t. ,t1a inJ t:ltn t ·b y u1akiug
a 1nfu•,e .(111.r·,a hle;, di.· tJJ"i.b ution r•f t li I c~ul ts : ,.rod 1ce,l by :b i,~,la hor ~n 'f:ll
,, rn - fliti<1u of' tbiuus can be a.rr_-,. ._tl at, There- i..· uo 1oore reason ,vhy
t •~ lil boriu 0 •· un~u ~11oul(l aot tix fl1.e 001npPn •ml., tion that t . ey will a]low t,)
.,!uJ ,ii ul thHu ·t hPi-o is . 113 , atJ>i.tal ~ho ,dt1 fix th~ ,ro1np n~at1on . ·o be
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unovred to 1nbor
Q• i~ut is tl1 e1 ., ;. nv otlu;r · -ay ln~~ which what ,~ou 1 ud other work11:1en d1~sirf~can Ile tlone Pxe ]L h. n uui,~t:r al combi1 ati,on of all kind..
of 1a ~or ~ u se1i : d efi1.n,~e 1ln a k ru ~ i.t~ ti ~ni~n u1s on ta I•i ·al H ud th n s secur ..
i u g ~t p ·r o 1Ml•r cl i.~ tri bu t.un1 of t lie ioi n t t'ftol·r. of hotI 1 · ·- · ·· • J don 't k uo 1,~
lrntt- fhtlt. l( gi shit h=•t. itction coulil h . b!"onght. iuto 1ll·ly iu 111any wavs to
1 ,eet t'br. ,e11tt""1~ge·m1t y, to - on1c • xt~-n t a·. lea~· •
Q. Yon .said a ,v·hHe a~o tlu1 th
o\~t.~1.1nnen t .houhl 'liort . n the
hou"ts ot' h1bo1 _ .· . -nn t-b -, (~ovr,r1n11eut J)racf,(uli.UV hor en. the hours of
Jn bo.r a· <l , e -· ~·t'cure , o tbe h1 bo~~er, for six lun1:rs'' \l'"Ork tbe an1onut
of n~OHCJ' tha · be· .,rouh.l 11t?c,,~.~,t: fo1t t,e n hunrs' ,, o:r k · - .A - 1:.lany of t.he
h .nefitg to the ,rorknl.J.tilU!Il of tbe sboi·tening of' b .· hour of lnhor
woo·l d. be ind.ir~ct. For iu~tance,, if :rou _.l lortcn tb . hours of labo11. to
eigl1 per rl~1,:, and n1a·ke that - ule uniV",erijal, you ·w1U then fi.ntl . 1nployH ,. trt tor aU the pau11 r Jahor ,,-hi .·b i8, no,r out of em1ll 0.ym .· 11.t and ,~nr•portei' . by he bone· ..it an ll ind ust iiu n - wa,, e~ , orkersf
.· ~ l:e , l~ut ,,. . in not 1-be llonet) bdJ01·er tben .· t 1mi,l for ont~ •:.iiih.t
hou1--ij' _··ork. 1nst,ea.d of Joi· ten ,onrs, a , at pr - ·e11t :- \. II,e .•lain1.' HS
inuch for ~i,g bt hour~' wo1·k as for te,i ~
Q,~ But the point is., ho·\ , ean l"'Olll oom1,el ·t he . mplo) er, by Jaw to
~1,-,e for ei"'ht ho11r 'labor ·t he sinne amot1nt-of money :tbr wbicn be can
nbtaiu t,en bonrs' labor -.A. IC i.· a,,- ry difficult question to an;' .· r.
,,,, e '- no,v. > 1 · ee: ly w ll tba. ~ f ,1 mt!r]y men worked el.even and, twe ll'"e
houi·t; a ·lay,, and Vt e ha\1 e, ·een the ,g·eueral b ouns of Jabor brought
down until no,v ten .i s, the ma.xlmn1n, wbil · ·n soi e of· tbe State . them
is_·11n eight~h ot1r law on the ·tatute •b ~k (as ·t hem Ms on the , tatute-book
of the Geueral Governn1ent), and we have uever s,een any tr· ide.nee
the rednction. of boor .' 11aving wor Ted di·~.astfro1;1sly~
Q D.- 3,Tou ilt tribttte the sh.ortening· of the, hours of labor to statutory
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or

143

REL.ATJONS BE1T WEEN LA'BOR .J.ND1 CAP.ITAL.

enaetnl,e nts; 01. h.av tb .r~ f.atntes be·e n tb outgrou·-th of co1nlitio1r~·w,hi ,■ b
would ave brongbt ~ bout tl, r,cdDc.tiou of bonr~., ,-en if no , ta ut'e
bad bee,n pa, , .·d u11on t be · ul~ ct ,. '- A.~, \\ I.J·_ u -,,•rr a HY s'ta.tute bns h t;-n
JJ,3' .d w]1i ·h bas uot - n as d upon 1n11bHu 01>ir iou 1 _ :Uas pro\T~•l ft
b· ineft."ee· na.l .
Q. So that~the COi di ion l1Ybirh '})rocluet<l thi8, re.. ult ("Xi te:d 11,r io 0
the Jegi~la~1, ln.. T 'ue bu ·g 0, ·•· h1\Jor a~- , Lur teue,l h,~:- f e b-t.i•UPl ~ I .;.une,lioration of th . · udition of human beings in our crtilmzatiou, ~ .utl ·wh u
11ubhc oph1iou ha rt a -l.lt~d a t:ertah~ poiut ·w . 1nbocly i iu u. ~tut1,1 h.•.
But, i . lntt stutnt~ enfore d H'S, a «ene ·at r l - ?- -- '. .. };o, ,~iJ■•
• . Is i 11ot eYaded b . pliYate · ont ·a,e .8 uetu-t eH the enrpl,t ~rer n tu 1
th 11•1)lo ed, ·! - . e ~
(~ No,r' do :,.·o- l br.U
that a 'tatu'te Hmihug flu~ 'b otU\ of l·IJ,l HU.' to
ei,b:·bt, b1t.n.n s 0 ' ix l1ou ~ a da,,. - ,oouhl b prac i ~anv ufor d. t-...\., I Scl.l
· re is no rl.1ason wb:,.·· ·i t-.. aouid nntj be..
Q~ ,,,onld. 1 ut 'tho _" he eq ui, -~[en t to s· ~:ri.ug· to tb laborer~ ol ·n ns,
co 1n 1ry "·l.io ,w·or - ten 110 n· a da: for . ,3, - · Yon ijhall e-r e t h t. ,,~01.•'k.
0111~~ ,i ~b hon _'.• a dt1 .~ aud ,h a]l 1. c .j . tor ·our ._ i~ht ]1onrs' "·orli a
dnu.hu. ·h ,cl snn1 iu 11ro1Jortion to t b ,ex·1 ~nt to 1vlri ·h /6Ur hon~ ~ut' labor
.lr t_in11iuisbed,· a1ul ,,·uubl the\"" a, · e.nt to tliat ;. '- A" - hev prol•~~bt,~
1 onld uot as -ut to H: iu th·,t f 1·n •
0. \l eU, tbf-1" ar, 'th s · difficulties tlni gfl h1 th ,:1t·ay" Tlu:1 ,y ai- ~
1 o nioru in ~
'\"our '\ l n,·· l1nn "11 our but , -1 ak of th 1n b . · 111:-, _ th y ar ·i.
1 h ru "nltit s l l nt h·.t ,,T~ to he d~alt
:i b - _ • ': rhere nr 0 ·reu t di Hi,~r l+i s
iu th ~ ,,ray uu t u1~· O}liinion is, that- tl1c~y gTou· out of he :s~· ·tt---u of ~o,T ern1nt Uf. undt.-1 \\Thi ,•'h. wt · no"'" li\·e.
fl Ott ,,r·n uHow 11t . u UttlP-Q I vruuld rkt, 'to ~k ·. on ~on1 t11iug on one oth ,1• pnint tli - :st, ft:~iut n t
wlr-ch · ,u h=:1,- at ' ri but tl to JI TI,t cl.1 .11 ~
l·\y~ a \\·n.~ s be n ~1 ;., 1· - -■·, r,
atlmi1 -r ,o f :]11. ,. De ~la · l' . antl I l~aY uerer uc UH,~t!il tl1a t l.Jt sai.,l \Y l!J,;~ i' it
bas b -eJ'l 1~ullli<.l,} 1tpo1"tt_1•1l ·11e llitl. sa,-, It··. 1"lU~u4, e " ·'h~.-.·h :)Ol t1oot ·ti
b .r , ~ 'W .Uit · H o.o.. l do nut kuow tllJ"lt you un I rto •k t O 1).' 1
Jrit 1 ~l(''' uraf.. ls, but I untl r ,s tood. yot1 to ~a,y tba ht. Juul t x prl~ ~·seu the, st n ti,w~ut at som ' hu~ ~nul pace that a doU·1r a, 1b1y \Ya~, l~uon°h to lu~~..,
brea<l a.ud ,\·ate:r and tl1a lul . '\\·as good eno11~;l1 ~nxterr·i uce 1hr a ·\,·ork
in~m=in~ H~ l · YOU tny ff\~··d nee that b · e'\~er IH He- :u ch a tateu1:.1ut
as that. -A,. I a.in unabl, to gi, ·e ·ou tbe .· ·xact 'tiL · arHl 1:Jlact.1", but it
is a "~ ·II ;nown facf.. iu thi~ localit~f that. b · did. ·1y i i aud.,. as a •.r,~at
a.drun· r ot _·I
eech r 111y · elt; I · ,as ,·err- m_u h , u:r-p11s . cl t . "'t t be -,.au1l
any 1S ll Jh thir g~
Q., Don't ~ou think, ho-vre,. ·. r, ·thn't hi · st·ite:m nt inn I ha _ b en
qu;a Ufied ·11 ·onu~ way
It emns to 1-ne that tlia . ~nt1m,e nt is a . re•
mote f om. 111-.. B e her gen .-. al i·t~t of nnnd on this subj:ct &'"i a pl,1
,e i r i fron.1 tb c nte of I 0·1Jb t t-A I shonhl th.ink '01 irom ha-, ing
.b ar,cl him lecture on '' l'be i£ _of the Oommon · eo1'.d ,," '". lr n. ·h e·.....
'Pre .~.·-d seuti:me ·ts so e1l ti rely different ,, but s ..iH it is gt~n _raHy aw J.i ted
as a, .f ac that be did mak,e this tst~1t,e10r ·nt..
o\\·ever,. I will n1a· e fnrtbe'l·
iHquir .·, a11d . ndea \'" O:r to gi \-e yon all the iutbrm a ti tlJa.t I o·b tain on
tha't point. .
B,y 1\Jr,. PUG . :
,Q. If be did ·. ay 01 ho 'M ny people do yon. ,_oppose. agree with.
him.t-A. Oh, probably a few capitalists.
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Q. You.,are a telegi-aph o . erato-r., .Do J"OD. co,nsider the rates of ,oo,m-

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

144

REJ,A.T IO·X -, B 'E.T WEEN . . ···DOR AND CAPITAL.
(}·ont ~

1 en sn t ion JiPcei Y etl by 011 :rat or.s adeqnn te for t b eii reasona blc a net

ftn1a lde· -UJ~tlort .:-A . No, si1· .. 110 - tak."i11g into ace.ount the , ·alue of
tlu i:r ~er, ·i, -~,s a11tl ·t be le:u~tb of tht" boors that tb ya ·. r,eqnired to wor. -..
Q·. . "V ?eU., is the ~unount of n~ou ·,y 1\~hi ·h theJ r .cei,. e sufUcient, to ft1ra.
ui.·h a n1an a eo1nfurt··\ble 11onse, ~ood ]otl;ii1n,t'! 1" d and clofll:iug,, "'\Ull
111,~ii ot·]Jp1• ordinar-,- on1 t'<n-ts of e~vilizttl )1f~. ·f -...\.~, le .· ' if 'h:·.. d u1. s
1~ iiruR .iJ.f tl t! I. · i, if ~·t .:·· ot· nature aud rl·rn·:ti.us in ":i gl ·. blc ·edue . s all
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Q., l ou th1ul . it i~ c nf'irt! ' y hultl <u ~t.h to -nJ)port a fiunil,7"!-...\.
.
.nt·ir~ .ty , ",(I,. ·· . U11·111 '\\" .]10 t·11te1• . . th1 lt u1·1fin•tuui.lt(, ti( Ill " 'liile fiU ·CJ'O,b~d iu
o, r busiru.~~s lut~ ·t o ,Yo1·k a hnost don hie ti n1e to 11u11.kt'"· ei d.:s u e t~
(i Anti his lite 18 ,Ahorten ,l ,It th ·. ~ rrm · 'h1ne ~-.l . .: , ~.,, si ; ·t. · 'to,
ti1e ~U}lpor1 of n 1'1unil'v , fuL_iJit~ , can exlst . of cuurK · ·,, ou a Y . ry ·. n1all
.:a 1nou.nt of nlOH , .
fl. Y E's; bnt .f 1r i.a n b,· ~UJlJ~or a comfiorta b lt~ huur:i, , ·with coi for a..
hi -: food au.d clofl1iug n ud tltf in·dinar:r- cn111fints of H te.-A.~ 0h,, a
hon . e is on t of the qutstion in such a , a ~e.. In · bis city .· , l1ot1 . e oould
Ho't ·oo 1e1 ted for tlr ·- fhll •c on 11ePsation t-but
t . legi-a))h op ..rator re;,
4~e.-ives; tl1a 1. i ·. - a11s kiHtl 04?· i ho •··. for b.1ms.elf" alone; so that b ~w,o uld
he o _. eo 1r ',(\, comJle Ued to ,c o-operate with others in th : b1riug of a
11011st,. and to li, in it j ointl,. wit others,
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Q·. Il·1ve you a . • ,lata as t,o the wa_g~s a.rul ·1b · fll'.eneral conrlition o
th .· wort~ iJJ:J~ pflo1~le-, Hn~n and n·on1en, in. ofuer a rocations .; c&n you :.ti,?'[ ·•
U ·•· a= J inforutn tion ·rt · o tit .· contli tiou of the u-or ing n1 · n geu rally in
,_ ··w York .. it .· ~- · . 1 .·nn g .. t JOU ·. ocb intor.nulti.o ... "\\1' ] in.th pas.t
1e,\ ,r: •·k.· th ; clot: k~1uake . ■.: ' ent c n a- strike tor incr n~tJ waqes, and a
1~.r .J e ·p -OJ>orti . n o.f th mn are om u.
· •c ir , . .· m11eu ·r lo,n has .a.ng tl
:fron1 .$ 5 to, $6 ~. ·ee·1...., a.:11£1 tl1e:y n1n11t1factnr .· au a ti le tba·· ·. ens r. rulii.
at frou1 $lrUO to 81 =-·o. For th~ nta.k iug ot" thatarti ·1 · th y. ~~cei,· - ~ . JO..
Tlte 1nater1.u l 11:·•ei in it( ou ~t1·uotion ,,·uulcl not- co~ · 1u·ob·1 bl.x OYe:r , 15
or :,20; J"'C the nrticl e ,,·lieu n aunftctnr tl ~ :. J. at fn.nn -SlUO o :·laO.
'Ihe elonk:-ma :""'f.fS, ,,~~ut on ~t gti-ike, ~•nd., Nill~uht ·1, euou, rh,l w re ucce·.·sfu.. I sai th.at h . cans -. strikes a8 a rul · are not .ncce tul..
Q. Cau y u ,g ive u tb · Listo1~.Y of zstrikt!s in the ol<l countri s antl 10
fbis country .- ...'\.. Ye,~, ~ ir' • I c,HJ gi,··e yon full data a tot e hi ory
of strike , . ho,,~iug tft~,.i1· inahit· tJ · o a _tain t'he. ohj,e ·• t that j ··, · ou,g bt
f<:n\ sLo ing thu. t strd, i_s. as a nh~ a , · fiiHures '" l s l'l" _"u: dia1 ·measn1-e' ·~
Q~ Ilo,,7Jun i tbc hi:s,:or:."v.·bich , ,Oil C.:lll ,o•i.·, e us . -A , I think it i .
about ·t· co1np1ete a,~ c~1u be <"OH l Hed.
1'11 UH.AIR)IA~., T;l1eu \\~e will rely Uf)OU ) on to, g· ve 'it to u ,, to .. e b .- r
,-. db nuy ot ·1e· in· : ter bt~H iug u1,o.11 th « u~r~l] 8u4j ·t of 011· i.nVt'Stig 1tiou tlrl.t you n _y lu,,· · ~11 ··our couuuanJ.
The,, I~:SESS. I ,, Hl ( o s-0 ,,rith 1tleasu1 ,. I \1 aut to ,call ~our att, :utio n nu,, to, oue ot ber 11oin t in r,e ~'r\I'tl t ·· t bi · q u ·.·•·tion. of eom1>.en )'"t tit )U
Jor el gra1>bic I tbor in thhs Cit . . Th ~re are 1n n "orking in the Direct
,C ab]e ofil ,vbo r ceive $108 p r toontl for fi\· hourrS work ,a da3 ,; and
fh . re ar~ ot.h~r we· of th·,· sa1ue gratle ,of ,capacity employed bj our
~111. pl s ~
·r .".. bo recei e , .· ·.·. 9 a , :.o th .
(J. Ar · tho•..e. An1e:rican. :- -.··. They are Am.er.ica.ns.
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115

RELA.'TIONS BETWEEN LABOR AE:D CAPITAL

Q.. What is t·h e pa of the opemton at the otber end of the cable ---A. That I am. not pre-pa:r,e d to state now; but l ,c an ascertain. it Of
,_ .- -, : · e
· 3JJ
...111 k...
··.,-.. th
· t·· 1··-.h_ e eos t o··f. lo;1v1.ng
~ · - 1s
'"' 11i.es
·· .....
, .... - th-··
. ..
course
now
. · a,
10_ E
. ·-·ur,ope
. an 1~·t 1s
here; so tha ·,.e -.. - Ji•tle can be ,d ete·rmined by a person ~n ·t his oountry
as to t lie value ,o f any given rate of wag-es there, and vice i,e~ a ..
B,•. Mr. P ·GB.:
Q:. 'W hen · ou know ·w.h.at a man reoei,res is it not :a matter of uni~
,e-rsa:'I information w·h ·fher the amount :i s enou_g h to en.a hie him· to Ii, e
co1nforta,blJ ! - ·,; Wbere a,re you goin,g to dra,v the. hne as to "' cO"m •
fort " B O"\li will ~ro defiue '' comfortn ble" I .. cannot l.i.v e ais, comfortah l ars l[r. Vanderbilt can~
. ·rr~ CALL. Comfor'iablf·.Jiving i ·•. good,,oomfortable clothes, good, co·m :fo1 table fare.,. .aud good, co - fortable 1:.belter----tbe. ordin.i ry comforts ,o f
lite.
· -:- _, . • ..
If~- am.an
- - ; t-''.-· 11". ,s- me
·· · t'b·
,· · on,r
- · -. ·• · ge
·. ·t, 1u
~ ". q~ cen
:- t s- . d-·
Mr~- p•
. UGH
_. at. h- e- · is
..• l i •- does not req_ui-re much .special in-fbrn1at:ion to enable :me to j11dg-e that
wl1at be receive,, 18- iu.ad.eqnate to give hint a •comforta,ble Hviug ,,·hen
,ve know bow much a man. i,s g _tt.ing for h15 labor i't is a -very simple
1aatter to decid -. to w·h at extent be oun 1:iv·e· comfortably upon it t The
·1~1ain question is w·ha.t is the rate of CO·lBJlensation ;, how· · u.ch •docs
il
:1le
get; ~1or h.
. 1s Ia'b.-.o·1·
_
The '\\TITNESS,or ·e .J : but you m.ust take in.to account also t'he pu .-.: l.J a 1-n r- pow r ofth e wages,, w h.at.ever
t h, ey DJ.lt)1 be..•
tlr. P . GH .. But w·l1en yon know bow much a man gets you can ea ily
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find ou:t it.s purcbasiug power. .

B · ~ t.he 0HAIRMAN':
Q.~ -·on wer _ ea- 1ug of the strike of those e ·gaged 1
.e ma·u u-~
facture of certa.in articles of •clothing, nd ott ,s aid that a se m •·tress
i'n t.bati bus:ines· r,o oeiv-e d only • 2. 50 for the p·r odnction of an · rticle
~~bicb, i l -· Iodi g ti e mat.eri l ·o_ d, wa.s sold at fm,01 100 to tr oo,-,_
£

A Yes, sirt

·Q~ Do you know t·h e amount which was received foT makiog the same
article bJ t.h __ · eawstress some. ei_g ht or ten _y tars ago f-A . That branch
of ind\V try wa · n.clt introduce.din this country ten y ,ea1-s ago, I thi.uk.
I beli , ·_ it is a uew br-Juch here, and.- it is l ,e ry limited iu ,~ts. e tent.
1

There. is ·none of it onts.ide of ·- e.w York .
The O__.A.1R - AN .. I have been. informed tab,a t some time ago, perhaps
.n ot S·O long· a,. eigb.t or ten ye.a:m a.go, _the, wa:~ · paid 'for the mannfa,et-~1

ure of those artiel.M · as from $8 to 110 or $12.

Th WIT- ESS. Probably.

T·b e •·.. BAIRMANt An-d that i ,. has been redoeed graduaHy ·t o .•.2.. 50.
- - - - . - th
·
ders ·an d l ou. t.o .say t·, _ha t yo11 h- ave th_e 11opreas.1on
I n.n~
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' '. ' IT'.NE'S, ■ yes.
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The
·-.djo 11rned..

NEW

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·y o _:-, AagWJt 14, 1883.

J OBN s. )le.CLELLAND recalled and further exflDlin,ed.
The W , . ·s s~ Mrll Chairman an.d gentlemen, I stated ,y e·.terday that,
DO·t knowing th · soope this iln· estigatio.n ·was ·u tel_
y to take, _ w.as n,!J~
prepa. ••·d to•· .· ubmit iofo,r mation in regard to· se,eral ·m atters that might
p·ro:perls 'be submitted to tbts committeei Io making tltat state.r oent I
10 c---(3 L W)
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14:6

RE.LATl ONS BETWEEN LABOR. A.ND CAPITAL.
1

dill not in any m.anner wi~b to be und.erstood as im.p l,yin.g or ·b elieving
that the in estig.a tion to be made b:r thi.s on11mitt ·. · wa not goi. g to
be a 'thorough one, but ·,· thou ._ ·h t it \\~as. to b _· .c onfined solely to tb ··. teJe..
graphic .~ trike :ind the ·,an~e· . JeaiHug to t 'bat. strike, or .m atters n,o t .re~
mo.·. elJ co11nectefl w:it b it;;. I thoug.b t th·is from ml" ·k n.ow'lt"dge of th . ·
fac that last ,~·int er ~el e:ral b t ari n gg. bad b · ·en gi v·,e·n by t bis com mi tt,ee
in \: ··~ud1ingto11.'! and tlu1t Jt' :n tlemen who a.re interested ie t'b. · labo•r
mu\menu nt luul there te~tlfi ~don tb.e gen... ra1 labor question,; au< I up ..
posed,, tllerefore, that tlr t pnrt ot_. t-·e in,. estigatioa. bad been ,c onclud,,a . .
Now, 10. ·\ .ieiv· of the ~u1noun e1nent that th ~- in,..es,t igatiou i' to fJl}ke a
" ·id ell" ,~c.opt. than. . llD 't iciJ)at ·d,; I bop ·. to be in a.po...'-lition ·i n a hort time:
to h1y befoi·e son many i1npo1 t1 nt fa ~ts and figure~, but I a.m not pre..
par.··d ii ·· bi .- ·m oment, and tber~fom J ·w ould as.k tbat1m:y examinati.on
'be poJd 11oned or nrt er1·u 1) ed. a ·, bi :s poi D , so a,,~ to a.Ho,w m,e a d a . or t"ro ·•
at l,e ast in "rbi •lt to, J>repar,e tacr:B, au•l figures for pmsentatiou to tbe .
um,nitt@ . ·~ I !iu'f'e. 'b een so busy fhn.t I ha·\""e not ba.d tim.e to ,:atber or
a·i~raugtt: the u1formation to ·w hich I refer, bu·t I a;m quite eonfid · n•. tbat
if I can have a, .b tt1e h'm e I ea.n be ready to ubm·i t at lea. ,t some ,o,f' that
iinformati.on b,y to-n1i0rrow mo.n1in.gt I su. ·ges, tberefor,e,. - at t e eommitt,~e now resume the examin.atio ,o,f some of the tele.,zr.aphers who
mu:, be. a bJe to _g . ,·e allditional ·in.formation in regard to tbe ,·.trike, and
tlHlt 1.ny ·);x:ami'natiou. b ]l(r. tpooed~
Tb
HAJRM.AN .. w~ are £nxlous,, of eonrse, to impro:ve t'b,e time as
far as 11os.~ible in · be actual 'taking o.f testimony· du·ririg th.e p~riod. that
the L"'Onuuitte .. can be in sessi'on h - re, and if yon will. be ready proulptly
to-·m,o rrow :n1orniug I tbin k w,e ·.· Ul have some fu · · er questi,oo s to a.s k
you r-eJatiog· ·t ljrectly to the strik.e -qo~,stion.s, which were · otrea ~b · d iu
yonr examination J~&ttrday-und when the inquir:y ou tba't subjecr. ·is
t~oueluded we shaH b · g'l ad to reeei,•e, an··.· additional iuto1rmation ou the
a-e1ui~:r.aI su·qjet.1 of this inv·e ·~ti .. at'ion. wbicb yon n1a · be prepared to offer.,
"\lVi.tb. tbirt unders -an,1iug · . e will relieve ;you uui:il to~morrow m-o.rnin. ~,
·v ou . .poke :feg,terua:y o:f beinJC a.hie to _gi., e u.s ,som:e defi.nite es'timates. of
t b · · cost of J1f'producing tbe W e1stern Union pl ant, or·its,equ ivalebt, from
n w n1.a'te1·ials..
think ·. on es,t 'imat-.d · b - ,cost at tbe outside a.t not m10,r-e
tba.n ..30 OOt,,.,000.. A e you now prepamtl to give anything·morn defini.te
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ES . · , TE OF CO,S T OF A TELEGRAPH L , '- E. ·O F 1 ,000 MILES •.
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A. I ean ,g1, e Jon an estimate of the cost of eons.tructiug 1,'500 miles
of a te,IegraJt•h line of eigb wir -s,. No~ 6 gauge. Probably thi -~ esti:m at· n1 ay be e. 1ittl 'hi'g her ban HI e a,ctua I cost of constru.c uo g ' ueh
a 1ine would be uude·.r a, ·.· y ·· tem, which I ·b.all ,speak. of her&aft . -i--~ This
e~thuate 1s. £or · h.~ oonstrDction of a line nnd ·r tbe pti .at,e contract sys
tem - a 'lin . · of 1.u0U nules~
Q. Do the H.:;,;nre 1eh1t , to a proposed lin or to one actua'll:,. ,eon•
s.truc· &I .-A . To a prtt,posed l1ue" Jt 1s an ac. ual estitoate for the coo
stro,c t.ion of' a liue. 1.,500 miJeg 1u length, uitb eight wires, N:o. 0 gauge,
that hPing t.he tdz e of th · wi.re tb=:it i.s DO · ,generaUy u '. ·d , on aceou·n t
of ir_nprov,e1nen ts in t ,e inst:ru m ·nts. Tb.ese. improv·ed. in .:tru m ·nt , the
duplex and tb · qoad.rnpJ,- x, work to bett. r a.d·rantag,e on a wire of No. 6
gau.~re, on account of tb · r~ .. uing of the ~esi~tance of the wire. ·T his
.is · .. \v·i:r e of lar.~!er size than that w'hicb \las. fo.rmerly used io tele.~ ph
Jioes.. Theordiin arysiz··, 'bas g nerally been No;;.9 g.a.0;ge 7 which is smaller·
than No~ U. The ,eost of' th,e peles, la.i.d at tbe hole . , ea i'ma·t in. g them at
1•2 each., and counting forty poles to a m.1 le1

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141
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Q" What ]se is, tbe~c about a tel gr-rt.p h 1,.5001nile · long ·w hich is no

th.at · tatement T - ~~u· inJt now thaii there is uo t'ele
1rra1>h ·w hitt , . er in e,xi·te·nce th .re, and. that' 3·,o are going to construct
t' e instrumeu'tali(y caUec.l a tele.IT,iLpb, a lrne 1,500 :mile , io l~ugtb.,,and
to ge·t i ~eacly· to do bnsin .s:s and t1an~;m it m·e ssa.ges for the· pn.b he atisfa tol"il'"", ·,1rhat els , oul•d you l'etq,u ire to ha.Te that is not estuna;ted
tor there - ·all.\~ Th•ere would be .·tatiouery i .ud su11pUe~•~
o uld the~ 110 .a.l o be the 1ranc.bi& · , the rigb I to eonstruc.t fbe
Q.
line J._......A. .N o ;. I have ~ncluded that io tb estimate, a d a.lsu tb . equipment of tb • office . with iostrument . and ha ·,· teries.
Q, Wha;t a.bout the ri,,,,bt to mak:e th.ose 1ustro:ments,· -A. There is
notbin,J to prev·e o .. any one fro buying ins.trnm,e.n ts to equip a line of
t,elegrap·h. The onl,· instruments that ca,n not be bough·t are those upon
,vbich tbt, w ·e s.tern Uuion. Oompany ho:l da the p•aten.t s .
Q. Would you not want the improved instruments in order to ron
· his tele~ap·h to advantage . ' Uules · y'Ou 'h ad those you would be
oblig,e d to, devi ·e others, would ~ .on no !-A .. Well, if I J;iad m.y ·way of
getting the im.proved int,trnments. . would adop·t 1.e gislation tha,_- . _•o nld
compel the West · ro. Union Co,mpaan ) to ,s urrender tht, r.ight to any in.etrurnent that was solely for the poblie good. I do not think an,y cor
por<1tion ,s h.o uld be allow·ed to mo•nor101i.ze a thing of tba.t, 'k ind.
,Q.i _W,onld yon ,e l. im tnat, instrit1·meots ,0011,s tn1cted u, 4~r patents,
wbicb are ownetl as, private property by that company, e~uld be app'1opriated by the pnbUc for public pnrpose -t. . . . . A An answer to that question ·w ould involve ~- ,d isenssion of the ·r ights of private. property., and I
am not p,r ep$red to ,g o into · bat just at presenit1a I think, howe er, some
means. eou'l,d be devised wher,e bJ"all t'ho.s e improv·ed instruments could
be secured for the: equip,m ent of a new lin&
Q. Su11po=se there .bould be questions of title,, as to ~he po ·er of ·t be
Jlublic, o:r of a:uy com.·p any acting for tbe pnblic, to .a·p prop,r iste these
im 1,roved in' truments.:, then you could. fall back. upon auothe•r class ,o f'
in . tro.mreo.ts, less e·fficien·t,, wh i.ch are n.ot pr,~·vate property,. could ) oo IA~ We h· ve one of ·- be imp.ro~;red .iostrum.e nts that can be obt..a.1tned for·
public use; th.at is 'the dnp,l ex. ·T he qnad.rn.:ple is bltt a doubling· uf the
capacity of th.at, aud th.ere are new in -,t roments inven:tmg fron1 da:y· to
da). · here is. · · new qaadroplex sy .• tem.'b eing invented now·, s-0, tha;t it
is 'Ji kely ·•,hut there will be Introduced a new system •. .hich ¥,rill do a ,,a,y
with th,e uecessicy· of eitber f:aUiog bao'k on the ol,d in.stram:en'ts ,o r of
obtaiaing tbe qoadru'Plex system o.f the Wes.t ern U·o ion. There. ·i s no
doubt in my nind but that a liDe e!Ould be thoroughlv equipped ontsid,e
,o f the ~estern ·¥ nio~:,,ij patients, and. plaead in as ,good-working ,o rder
aa any line now m ex1i1:1tenoe.

,es.tim,a ted ·for

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RELATIONS BETWEEN LABOR AND CAPITAi,.

Q,, For ho . · much cost, in addition to ·(he es,t imates there foJ1 securing
rthe, ri~bt to, nse tbese im.p :roved ins,trum.en.ts, oouJd ·t b.e rig-'b ts of ·w ay
be 8ecured . -A. T.b e righ.ts of ?ttt;y are esti.ma.ted for here a.t $100,.000.
Q., J:n tha.t estimate is · b.e·r e any indication ,o f' tb.e location o,f the.
line or the points betw. · wbic·h it ·i s to ex . _· nd T A . I think the. estirna: e. v.·01:dd answer Yerv w 11 f'o·r a line between heir · and Chicago.
That i · a tbonsand 1-01l:. •
QI] A11d tl:us il£ stinu1t ·w ldch you have "".i ,e:n us i,s for a i ne 1,500
mile.~ '1011g _:'- A. Ye ·, sir;. l,liUO ·mH,es of an. ord.in.ary line, passing
th 1·uu .r.r 11 ei ties and towns.. - Q.IJ li;1,..e JOU au] doo.bt tba t for $1,000,000, ·i n ro1-nd num be:r s, an
efficient l:.ue of t,elegra11h 1,500 rnUes in leogtb mig·h.t be. eonstrnct,e d
and 1n1t in workiug ord .r '- A;; I h.a,re. oot, on th . basis of th l.s ets.t-i . .
ma'tf-~ I btHe\~,e tba- under ct 8:J stem of l.ift-operativ :. effbrt < . line. could ,
be built •~, ·U a:t a 1rJueb lests figure.
Q . Ho,\: rnn . ih tim ·. ·wott d
neeesi:/~Y, it the work ,,TeM llndertaken
i1t ean1· .· ~t. to co,u~ .r nct a 1iue ot· that •xt,~nt and make..it rertdJ for
ht sine,· :- ·. ~ • I ·wuol{l have to con:s ult 'those mor ·· ftrmU1ar with. the
·tons'lructiou ,o.f telegrap. lines t · ·n
nm before. I could answer that

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OO-OPBRA.'.f1IV.E TELEG _.APBING.

By 3:lr ALL:
Q. \1\ batdo ) ·Ol!I mean byco~ope.r ative effort,_ ·.· . . :m ean · lilne built
by thos,e en~aged in the bnain.e,s . · of 'lelegra:phy, ·w ithout ·t h .· . i'n t,ervent'ion of auy .middlemen nr third pa.rt.ies; t'hat is,, if th.e m•eal18 w·.· .e:placed
h1 th hand.s of tbos - wbouperate the tele.g ra-p h at the prnse ·t - ·nie t.o boil,d
and. equip a line of tbeir own. .,•or insta. ·ce, the. 1" ne•me'D ·. ow in the
,e1Jt()loy of the tel,e grap'h companies eon],d •o onstrnc:t the line, and the
operator .· autl tbe managers now in the ,ew.p loi· of the te.Iegra.p·b compan ~ es could O)ler~te it.
Q · av you any obj,e etlon to stati' .g · :bose e.stim -te. that is w·b ieh
~ )o 1l ha·,.,·e p1.esented., so as to gi,.,,e us son1 e id,e a ~ .to how rel1a'ble it ma ·.
be?' A This e· timate i based ,o .•'th: ~prices paid b ~, the '11.,tual Uni.on
Tele.~ aph Com11any, au op,p ositi,o u line to the Wes.t ern U·nion,. which.
tuts lately bee amalgu.mated with i' ..
Q.. Ho,v -. a: ·,~-e ntly t-A.- Within t.:be la , •c ouple of ye rs.. -ti line
oou~trncted within a sbort ti'me past, snd very recentli amalgam.a ted
wit.h 't-l1· · Western Union, I think with.in the la,· t . year_
~
Q . Do ) ·on ·know the ·nu.1nbsr of 1niles of '\\'it,e owned ·b:f tb ~ l\"estern
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t hf , cou , try f-A. .•·-0,, sir:; I do not..

I think the statist~cs can be had, thoo.,gh .
Qll ·. oo ba;t"e no id a of ,vha't rela io:n . uch a Hne as ~~ou. speak of
wou '_ (l bear in extent to the aggregate of the \\,· estem Union .,:r-· tem ·A . No•, ·. ir. · -,e .S )' stem of tbe ll"{ es·t etu . nio:n is, aJm,o ,t ilH'hn'itableit bas. so 1nan,r cont1iacts, ba:t is,, . ·o r.k in.g arr&u~e~ents or agre .m ,e nts,
·;-.!,th 1 ..anon
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of the J>revion ·.. teleg.r apb corporations th.at hav·e existed in bi· co uD try.
It has a great ,d eal of asel e' mate.rlaiJ, nia.terial which is of · o earthly
use to tbat company or to any one e1' ·.e. It has '_. ystem,s. of wires a.n.d
poleH wbicb are not calle,d into play at all, but whi,c h rep,r esent L'l ge
,casb ,ou tla;: n ade: at ,S.Onte t.im.&
Q~ But tbst outla3, is uow l't!ally dead capita:J, you think - ·A.. " el,
I ·w ill .oot say that., · f ink -Bo, ·b ut I will not state as. a fa-et tl1at it is~
Q, Ra· e .;.on kuowledg,e of t e extent of the telegraph lines unde·r
ia ··

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RELATJ,O,N.S BET.WEEN' LABOR AND CAP.ITAL.

149

the control of the W ,e stem.u ·uio-o Company in this oouotr,· f ---A.. I :ha•,¥e
n:ot at tb,e present ti me,, but .I can obtain. it .
Q Is that within tbe know·led.g e of some 0th.e r witness, who i~, pres..
e:Dt !-A.. I b:a:rdly think it is, s,i r. ,
Th CHAIRMA.lf1 lf you can gi,---e n . that informatio·n at :son1t\ i'uture
'time,,. w e sball bti ,g lad to recei \'"',e it. We d,esi'r-e, to got aui i Hforma tioa
which w i 11 tend to sh ow tbe e.xteut fU1.d " alue ,o f ·t he exist ing t~ll•gra·p h
system~'- or IJ•rOflert3• of the co1 ·ntn.., an1I the cost of repla~iug so uJuch
of it a . t'l1. . ·1,tublic good ruight reqHire to be ·r ep,l aeed 10th · t.-nu~truction
of any ,oth · r , .ystt;m,, privat · or pubre.
The " ' IT'NES'S. I w.iJl end, a
to ,ob'tair1 the infonnation an~l give. it
to th~ 00:01 l'D it tee
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Q. ..·. t 80u1e thne ,lnri,ug this iuvestigatio:u I want. to ask. soun~questions of s.ou1ebodl~ w·ho · au ii,-e detiuite iufor1natinn iu regard to tbe
manner of ·ure ~,f 1he operators-,vhere the 'l ive, bow theJ live,, 1\"'bat
,s ort of ho1 ~,s they u,~
,e in., and \\·hat sio rt of food a.nd l\.h . lter tlu,.~ get
out of their \~ages. We wan,t to 6nd out as near]v as 'We ean \,~h-it ,., ort
of a. time you t,e legraph ,o perators have in the world on the ,, a.ge~ JODl
recei.v,e, corupa.r ed ··. i•h the re .,t of mankind.. .I f you t· ·. l t'h at 3,·011 cau
do s,o we sbould be glatl to hav·e you gi, e us t-hat informa,tio11 now, 10
your own ·wa1· aud a.K full,y as y . u Jtle~e,. A.. I would u1uch rather
ans.wer questions, on rhe s·11bj.- ct than attem·p t to gi·\,.e a general ou·Uin,e
of the life. of a 'tele,g raph operator,, al'tllou.gh
am quite fam:iHar 'W:i.th
'b is m o(le uf Ii Ying gene·rnllly . .
Q~ Give u ·, · b en, your owu stat .-m·e nt ftri t, ,and 'i f ll't is 11:ot ··- ufficientl~y
fuH we wiH a~k qae~,t ions,,. o as to ,eHci " r'h ate er additional i.nto,rma~
ti.on S"O-U pot;sesk.-,A. lVell,, tbe telegraph O(:Je'r ator as a role i~ looked. ,
U.PO't11 a··. au indi'\:- iilna.1 ·. ho 1~ds, an _
e a _~ .c.arel,ess life. The o.pera.to-rs
a'r e 'mo: '~l,y l ·9u·o g, nnmar1~ied m.,~n fro"in the bette·r e1asse ·, of' society,
: bo have no oue depelident upon. t'bem for suppo.r t. It ·i s g nerally
understood that nu oper~to,r earns his mo,~ ey easHl and. s,peud~ it as,
easn)~as he earns it. As t-o their manner of Jit''ing., they g _nerallv·
'l:Jjm.rd or ba:ve a fnrni~l1ed room 10. ~n apartment boi1se or a ·b oantingbou~t~, or- some'th11es. ~n a bott1I,., aud to a lar.g e exten·t they live npun.
w~ha t hi ku o\ll 11 a~ ''.t~~-·~~!21!.::~~· l!'~a~ ;.'1' that i8, ~hey go a rou11d from
pla,c e tu ·1,la~e and. ta.ta tue1r mea1i wbere,v er the:)· bappe·n to b ·at snch
times as t 11·· J ueed tbem. .· ·, . to their moral . cltan1cter antl co11dnct, I
con s,i J,e.r ·t hat it I mas. great Ii· improved of late years.. 'r'he 1nnra I stnt UK,
of th.owte in the busines: , has lJ e1 greatl' • ,ele,~ated du ,·n,« 1'be last
ten or· ti tt,een yt!ars. It is a bu· iu,e , · t bat 'h . . su tt ,r ed. 1n n cl• 'ill
tbe, pR$t tron1 tbe t~iet ·~ha.t ·m any of ibs. meo1ber,s l.Ja,·e beeu, througb
their f~~- &Q~.. e~sy mode ot· H'fe, led iuto J1abits of into.x:i~.3.tion aud
irre..gn'lar:tJ·, bnt dnrlifg- ':'be -lins"t t,eH or 6fte1111 :.,·t..ars ·a~bi tter Dlf ' ral
standi11g ]u1s been brought aboo.t,. and. ·'P.l ·• tind tht· r le,graph uper~ tors
to"day.,, as a ·r ul , constituting a s,t ead¥, sober.,, •.u LI inteUigeHt cla s of
wurke~ , Tbey are lookin.i a-r onnd, them rnore than e,,.er b· te·re for
means, of impr,1viug tbeir oondition 10 ,..-anons 11ra.ys .; they are begi · .
oi n.g t-0 recognize , bat a11 imJ>0rta1tt elem,e nt tbey are in the ocial ·,
stru:cture;, and they are t~ ~ug to make themselves, still bett,e r n, d still
mo, ·. re.speeted1 tryinig' to dra-w u·pon the,mael'f'es,as a e'las , au.d. as au or...
gani.zatiO"D some o:f the :r espect tha.t is given to the, other pr.of ssiona o,f
the land.. They see no reason why a te·l egraph operator should uot be
i!I,.

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RELATIONS BBT·W·E;EN LABOR AND ·C.APITAL.

looked up-on with just .as much ·res-pect ·i n ordina·ry sooiety as a d.ootor,
a lia-w·y · ·r·,. or a poHtician ;, they see no reason why th ir·oompensation for
tbei r labor, Ja bor wh ·eh eall, for - oeb a :b"gb d,e,rree of s'k:Ul and 1ntelli. .
genee au-cl_.a.pp'licat"on,,·· bould. not be re aroedjnst as well as• be labnr
-or any of tbe person ._ eogaged·in \That are cane~. professions or trad1~s..
lt i - ·w ith these gen . _ral obj·•".ts in '\""iew that we telegraph operatoits bav"t~ha,ode'1.-onrrsel ,-e.s togetber in a, com DJou orga.nization, and. in endeavoring to be ne·t it ourseJJ-,r,es w·e f@l!I and cl aim t'ha- we will 8it the ,san1e i me
be0iefit the eompauies ·w hich employ us, t'hat w·e wHl rid the ·proleRsion
of an elemen I that ·b as \1een ··. s:tum bling--block to- them,, .and wi.11 in.trod ute into th ir se-r vice a d:e_g ree of sy~ tem a"n d efficieHcy which wH I re -·
sult ,~er1 · adYauta_geonsly to tbe public aud ·o thetelegrapb compani~s.
/ ;In our local or_g a-rriza. ions. . e _ca.~ w:lop,t .F ~1~s, _an~ di~ciplin ·~ !~ go•""!r1 ,
- i.onr m.e1nbers and to impro:ve their genernlcondoet aud cond1t1on which
could never· be ado:pted or enforoed by the companies i.n. their o.81-ce,
T-e legraph opera:tora as a _rule ~re single meu, bo there am many
,exceptions; ,qnit-e a n:nm.oor of men a·re niarri.ed and have famUie !,
and. those ,v·h o are married a.re fo-reed to ·, vork a ,treat deal of u . ,ov·e r
ti n1e,.'' .a.nd, in fact, to s:pend 11early ··he whole of th •ir time in the pnr-so it of their business in order to maintain the·i r famHie • For in.eta.nee,
in this ci.t.'t'" a married man :1s com,pell,ed to, ·work, what w·e call ·_· '" doub-le
tric.k,"' workiu,g at night in th.e main office. from half pas.t 5 o'clock. in the
a.ft-erooon ut1til_1,. 2, or _3 o'cloc,k in ·_be 1u orning.,. aud tben getting by
10 o'clock in the n10,r ning to som.e broker's- ofli.e e or some down~town
e:1:Q'. -l lgg•e· offioo aud wor· i ng· the.r e until 3 otoloek -o r half paet 3 o'clock
in the: afternoon.. Tb1en lie will ·h ave an bonrand a half to walk ar,o und
before resu.m·i ng w,o rk in t:h~ ma.i.u oflic . · at half pais·t 5 o'clock.. Sc-·irn@ of
the s-i ngle m_en cl,o -tb:e same, and tb-ereby inerease their inoo,me, but it.
can -oi_:a1y be in-er, .ased ~n that way at the expe·n :_ e of tbe general health.,
an.d ,s ooner· or lat,t.1r .uch a conrse of life ·will b :r eakan operator dowu .
Q.. Wb.at can you tell us as. to · be apartments. or dwelling,s . ooc.upied
b:v· the telegraph operato ·. as ,: class · · Do yon kr1ow· auythiu_
g as 'to
tbe character o:f tho ·e. -dweUings and their sanitary conditions ,. A.. l:n
'tbat re-- peet th ·. telegra,ph operator· certainly fares better ·t han a, trades. man -.·. ith , family., _for thi rea·.on: th~ ~perat~~·,,being ge_·eraHy ~_~h1gle
man,. can secure a furnish --d roo:m in a comfort.able bonse,. H·e. will onl,..
have tbe one room.. l1is. bed~room, bu.-t he can secure a. comfortable,
·nicely furnis-becl ro-Oli I for rl1~ sam ·. .am1eiunt or ( ven for a 1-. ss,.amount
than that v.~bicl1 a · .radesma.n with a family will h a\"e to pay in t·h e waJ of
rent for l1 is u nfur i-,~hed flat or :· -arret.
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By M:r. CALL1:
Q., ,-v. by can tbc -01 era tor get a bett,e r .r oom at ,a les . p-r ice:1-- · • ' - ,~
cause he bas on1,~one room, beiug a single man, whi.le. tbe trad,es.m . n
itb r famny must ha,~e four or li\"e or si:x. :roo,m ,., The 01,e ator who
1.s sinu.le h ~, - a rooro w·hi.cll is fnruisbal not by him.self bn by -oth.ers,
and. be paJ~s les!'.'j rent fo t'hat room. f'.u rn·i shed than a tra.det6n1an has to
1-my tbr l1i1~ apartu1euta wbi~b. he ha·· ·t o furn·i sh :hi.w . elf.
1

B:r the CHA.lit-MAN
Q. Yoo 1-reak of the operators- as- r rule being un, :· ;rried ;, •do yo :_
mea-o. t'ba _bey are 1:·s· gene ally married than other .-.oung me-n of·the
sam c a-~-e _-A~ .J th·ink. so; l - · s generaUJ thau mechanics -o r tradeSr
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Q .. Do you attribute that fact, to any :. reat e: ·tent, to the inad.e quaey
of their pay f- A. Yes, sir;
should think that that had. great in·d:n•
en-oo 011 their ,condition in th.a t respoot.

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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A. They b.av ~ been loo·k ed upon in ·t he pa~st as quit,e a mi> __ or ·_ _ , ,.
but of late J.T a.r s them ·is more of a ten.d._ nt.:ay to ,seft .e.ment in ,some busi.DftRS ceo ·er, ,v be..re regular employment is 'to be obtained.
,Q. But as, thiat tendeucy increases yon do not n,of'oo, I tmp1,ose, that

tbe a,~er.a ge age of the tel~g.r ·lpher io(..~ases, d,o you 'I -A . . · o, sir.
Q.. 1'.he nature of the · wplosmen.t, still cuts hfe ,short., as I understand
your · . t · t..:~ meut . -A ·· '·s. sir.
B,y Mr.. ,G EORGE:
Q. Are 3-~ou married !-A No,,, sir; I .Jit"e i,o, a for.D ished room, and I
paid 10 cents .for my breakfast this morning..
B·.,JtcT . Ir. C'i lL:
Qli What , ould be your av·e rage· expense for living ! -.A . Do yon
mean a,.'t present, or since I have been 'in ·. ew York Cit:rt
,Q. How n1uch a month ,d o you ha;v,e to pay generally t -.A . For·meals
and my room l bav .· to p.a y in the neighborhood of 950 a,month, or per..
bap,s a Ii ttle more.
Q... Do ~ou consider· tha,t . fair,, ~ verag pri,e e for reasonable and comfortable living 't -A .. WeH, yes,; I should t.hi.nk 1t w-.- :.. Of' course it
restricts, •·· mian. to "be occupanc . of o,ne room aod curtails hi,s· table ex..
pen ses, bat tha-t ,s um. will enable him to,1iT'e well. en,oagh...
Q.. I suppose :rou rece'ive :le scompensatio.n than some othero,pera'tors'f
-A - No sir~ I do not
·
Q. ·-· bat 1s Joor average oom1peusation !~A. Vy regular compensation has, boon
au outh, but by means of workin,g overtim.e I ean
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increa . e that.

By ·t he OHAIBHA:N:
Q . I _ i·t ea ;y· to get an 011,p ortonity to work over time I Is tltere.,
plenty of that work to be d.on.e !'- A.. At ;some seas.ons of' 'the year it ie
quit easy to get sue.b work to do, and a.t other tim.e s w · a11 foreed to
,d o 'i't w·h et'b er u~e wb:h to or' not. Sowet-im•e,s an operator ,doe -. not care
to W'Ork overtim ., but he is forced to do so; and it .h as also been the
,c ustom.,, ·if th . re,p ilar wor'k di,d not bold ont until th• - reu:u1ar hours, of
,&ervic.tie had e . pired,, o for,ce the ope-·rator to step out a'Od lose the time.,
Q.. So tbati in that ,ease, _yo-u would be reany paid ·b y 't he hour, A ,.
No,; b:. the month!! I have known in:sta.uces 'Wbere the b.ourg of la'bo-r'
·w em fronlJ half past 5 o'cl,o ck in t~e ,e\"e·u ing ~o 1 o'clock in th.e morning; , but .if the busi. ess sho,u·1d drop off a .. ·1 o'clock or 1:3 o'clock at night
the tim,e from then until 1 0'clo tk ~o-uld be d.e ducted fr,om Ids ds • ;,
b,n t of .l ate this, custo·m has not pre,.,,ailed, as busines.s has. beeu r,ema:rk~
ably good and the ·-u.: ppl_ of 011era tors has ·b een ve1·1" Jim· te.d. I h a¥e
·b een s,p eaking all this time, of' city opera.tor.s :; t~-_,r-e a.re ol her operato,r s
in other office , whose ,oontlitio s of work are different.
Q, Before yon. lea _e the ~i t.y oper-dt,o r ,giv't,, us so11lie id.e a,, if yon can,
as t,o the ,exJ)en,se of riea.so, ·able·, comfortable clotbing-wbat it cos-ts ,an
operator :h.er,e ·t ty thie l'" ea.r ·to clotbe b ho self comtorta bl:, ,, _ . I do, not
k - o,w bo,w to arrive at an a,rernge, Some will w·ea:r one suit~.of clothes
for a ,L('ar or t,"o, ·vlh.ile otbers will . ·ear ·tl n:ee suits in a ye.a.cw; but taking·all th.e ex11en··. s ror clothing and fu.rui5hio1gs of aD. kinds tbat gen-•
tl.e.men use, and the cost of boarid, and roo [I, it · ~u use up a grea:t por•- Y
· ion of a. ·m an's sa·l ary.
Q. What uumbe·r of operators do yon. think have an.y a,eenm 1ation
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RELATIONS BETWEEN LABOR AND CAP:JT·A L

a·t the eud of tbe year aft,er p,a3~iug tlleir expenses,!- A. About oue per
,eent..

I gue1s , that woul,d he a large e timate.

Q.~ T,o \l"hat (1o ~ron at ti-:i bn te· th .ir !·aii n1·e to ace.uni uIate ; is it :a t..

trib . te·d to · hat ordinarly wou ~l be t,er-m•e d bad ·b abit8

u.n wise· or un ..

reasonable ex11en(1it.u r.e s . Of ,course tbere i ... more or less of tbat, :in
ever)~clas· of socie·ty ;. but how much of .i t · s there amougtl.Je opera.to .: .·A~ I fl~ 1 11ot t bi u k t.bere is m •Ol'le of' it uo w· an1ong tel (-l'g.raplJ .· -r ·. t ba,n tb ere
is a\ruong· other e]asses, men eugaged iu other· kiud.s of bt,hor.
Q. Aiu.I yt~·t you tbink tbu·t not more tba.u. on• Jler e~nt. of th . te]egra.1,h. 01terato s ar ·. able·., by o .dinacy )lntdence,. d'ili .'"euce, and. ~conomy,,
to S.cl'Ve ~n1y 1uoney
I do not 8'"lY th~lt th -)rare DO- . abl · to lffl.Ve any
111oueJ • .I do say t _1at fbe·r,e its not more than one per ~nt. or· the1n,
i'n my· ju~lg1ueut, ·wbo bav any a suri)]u . hi-i d bs at. t.he ,end. of th.e y ,e.ar..
.It is, a -well-kuowo fa.ct; that th . · w nljority o i" O(lerators in eit ie.s, bei.ng
l·,ttitt eYeriw: two ·weeksji a.re :t~, a. rule out of 1110Uf, from one to th fl · ., . days,
after the tlay n1)on w hieh t.he:y are paid. W .b at i:s. d.one 'With the nloney,.
wba di~1iositio11 i made of it, whether i ·i~ ns -tl to pay debts.,c.ontracte,1
d ur.ing· ·~fi,e pre . iou · wo w·,e eks or ·-0 othe.r tntrposes, I do not1uudcr"'
take to sa ·.
Q.. ..\ re ·t hose who :r eceive hig·h · r p1ay ~-. litUe ·m ore like·1y to have a,,
sn1·1•ln..• than th.ose who reeeiv-e tbe lov.rer rares of wa.geij .......... A. I think
j 118 t tbe oon t rary is the fact."
Q,. If that is so, if those w · o ,ge ' tbe most pa,y hav· : i'he leasl·. Jeft at
the eud of t;be y,e ar., what advantage would it.be to the operator~ of that
c'l ass to ha: .e their ·w age -. increased . -A.. It "~on.Id eertabdy b · an ad..
vantage to increase the , ages, of ·tile •Class, whether auything was sa·, ed
b · th.em or not . A man is no·t bound to· sa .e hi - ,va,1:es ·i f be see . .f it to
ilispose of 'it in th~ ·p nreb.a e. of the comforts and lnxuries. ,of life.
Q.. · mi mi,a.n, then, fbat the highest paid reoe·,~e no more tl1ao is
necessary to an ordina.rHy .r e '" peetable Ii ,~in g, and th at therefore tbe.Y
do not sav,e. The pa.y of the higbe,st, ·p aid operators does, not reac·b a
point, iu your opi niou" wb . e a. . avi g and 1~ udt,···t ma won]d be Ji.k.e ly
to sa:ve · oueJ _- .A A ·rnau ea.n .accumulate money on a much less salar~r than is, r ,e eeiYed in ma.uy departments of li:fe ; by being· .m isera,b le
ao.d sti.ngy a man ~an sa;ve money on a dollar a da,.v~
Q~ I understa ud tha. ; bot I a.~·k. l~ on ·i f your co,J Dplaint is 't bat, those
tele,g r.apb operators .• bo ret~it"e the .h igh. st pay d.o not 1-eooive any
wo -e th.· ,n a 11rudent •~ 11d eeo,noniical ·1uan · pends, and ought · o &,pend
in pro.cur.i og a comto:r table .l iving 'I -A.. 1 tJiink not,
Q. Yon operators, a1-e uo · paicl, thell., up to the point . ":here a man.
,e.an. 6l\ ve au 1~tbing fo·r the t!On ti u ~ o, ~ie~ of life and be . -Pllro, ·· b of old
age nnless. be takes it ou·t of" hi~ body and his, life ·J -A... Certainly not.
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BLA,C E.,LISTING-1"BE l ·~o.. CiLA.D OATH.

Qi Either you or _l'I\ CampbeU outd.e some statem·e nt iu the course of
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your test'imou.iT he·re .in .reten nee to"- btact-Hs1i11g,." ,a.s .i t is ca,Ued . -A..

I refe1"retl to .i t i11 ~.p e,i k1n g of the extreme di ··· ·culty t'ba;t as expe ..
rieu ~ed ·1 0 get ·i.o g a.us nf the ,eu11lloyes. to bead a petition to tbe officers
oft.he \Vesteru Union Co,1n.Jlany, from t,be fea.r th.at by so doin.g they
would bring upon them.8@1.v·e s tbat. trouble . .
Q. Can ,ou give us auy · pecifi.,o fa,c ts or iuformation bearing on that
·p raeti,ce of "blaok-:lis.t ing" an ···· case where a, m.au is disch,arged. because be has made himse·1t eom.tJw hat troubl,esom,e in asking for .n1,o re pay,.
and where,,. seekmg em.ployment .a t ,o ther plaees, he finds. that the agent
01r employer there has ·been notified of something to bie.ioJnry, and.fails

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for that reaso · to g,e·r. employm,c nt ,~.......... - ... I can ~nstanee a case ",g · t in
point in co,nnectiou with 1'l u., pre·· t'.l.ot: strike j In th,e Jt~nr lS;'O, when a
similur mo,..,ement was mac·1e. by ou~ body. ibe con1,p au, ·. uceeetlet'I ·in
del .i lt ing u~. , lt ·t h n took baclt ,q i t e a number oi." tbo~e \\"lio " ·e1.•,e at

that t 1·1n~: t,;tri ke1"it;, bnt it. 1orcetl u 1100 then1 ,, ba; ,v ~- cal I th • ir,on ~cla(l
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oa· b.,

Q.. \\ Ii at- ig 1.bat -A.. Th at is an oath to ·v.~l• i1·~'h 1l1•t.lJY \vere 1•,_1.c1 ui red
to ,~u bstribe.
·Q;o, Do, :),"'on m,ean a for.ma 1 oath, an appeal to D,i v·iu it,, ~ :unl an ·t tu, t t:_· ., It uderstand it as ,such.,. a· d. I uud~rstan1l that th "trikt1·s ,rer-e re ..
quired to fu1hscribe and to pror1 ·ise tha·t the,y would n, '.\· · :r connect
tbe 01 lSe1·,..es ,vl t b all J si 111 i la.r or~a n iizat1on. . nri u _ff' t be 11,r,0,gres8,of f ·i.~.
pres Of. lDO\m~meut ,',nm.e of those men from the lalJ .I! of ti.tne, tb1rt .· 0
I . ar,~, ent~ ;t1 · in:~o t 1-e n10\~en-1eut and joined the Biot'h~1·bood Q,ut~of
tb.os . meu, quit 1.atel]~, I beH.el-e, apJlHell to the e:omp~lny for reinstat ~ ·r ·ent, and hou1 what I hear, JUHi I th.iu'k it is true, he. was told by tbe
o, ·cei-s of tlle COmfl&ny that h·~ eou.Jd ne,w
er a,:uin ho11~ to mr.ei,,•,e e,m 11·1oyn1eut fr,( im th . ,ve tern UrJi.,o n T . It-graph Company in an., ·· part of
the ,rorld. Tha t an'ti ,v·h,o]e o , ens-~wa.s f at he oouru~~tett hirn~t'lf
v,~itb our o · 'ani.zatiun tor the ]lurpose of a king ell higl1er 1-ate of compen sa-1·ion tor lm j,.. labor.
Q~ \V.h at is ht ·. ua1n,e,, a:o d ;\' here is bet- A @I ,vin n1ak inq_n iry a-s
to tbe ubso,_ute fact and theu gi,~ you tbe name a.ntl brin - the g utle-

man b . ;r .·•
T'he CHA.JRlrAN.. Well,, I wii' h that if tb man ca 1. be, found and be
can state auythiu,g of 'that kind ,you wool1l ,gi,l"·e us bit;, Hame, o 't hat
""re ma\ com·~
r~·I bi , attendan,ce if be does not co,m e wilHnnJv ..
The WJT 'E:SS.. I will,, sir
B .· llr PUGH ::
,Q., Who ,d . vised that me"tb.o,t of doing busin - .$ iu this world T- · .
Oh,, that method i,s genemUy ado,pted by cai>itali t , tbrou,ghout the
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coon.tr
- · Q. Do J·ou ·, ,e an to sr that where a man has broken awa~. or jo,i ned
a ·trike, this a (}'mini stration of an. oath. that he win ne,:--,e.r again ,g o into
anythi n_g else of" ti, at k :i nd, ~s .. '. ,c ommon pme:ti-ee as a con di tiou of l~i ,·
re-em1•Io,~1nent 1-..: . l.· ;'o,t, onl,., so. . but, in mv
I. conn ; t.iou ~itb tra-1les organizations arid the di.tlieulti,e· ari, lng betwe n · 011,Ioyer-s .t tnd e,mploi es,
. , find tbn:t in manJ" instances, fhe. -e·m,p loJ '._r tak -s tb , a.ggress,i ,·e .a nd
goe·-.· to hiH ,emJ.~lo,y~. and gives him th alt •rnati,: ,e of i 1nmediat,e ,d is.i

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mis al or subscribing tu , oc am ,o ath or· contract,, b1ndi1JJ? hini?elf to
b.ave notbh1,g· vtbah~,~er to do u?ith an3~trade or labor organi.zutiou, .aod,
if he i.s ooune .·ted with ou . ,,, to ·,-yith<l'raw tr1tm it i10mediatP·l y .
Q. Did ~you e,, er , ·oorse·11· ,see sncb an agree·- ent or ,c outra~t ~,-A. .1
ba,·e seen them , slr, .anil Jui-r e t hem in .m y po . se s·i oh ..
Q., Ha,•'c yon any iu ,·our pocket now f-A~ I ha\'. e not,
,Q. u· you ba,·e any m
.u 3,our 1osse slou t .home pJeati,e· pro,lue.:e them.
here.after.. · · o . , \\·b,at compa.nie or or,ganizatio1n1 do -,~on k,now of in
tbi .. touutrl· that do tha -. thin," - ·A , I can instance the ,coc11 .. n1iuiug
OOFJKH'1lti:oa8, ge,llern.llJ .
Q~ : nu you ,g.·, e ans pecific ease, namiug t·he corporatioo b_y its eorporate or local title - A . .. "'o, ·ir; not .at thi . ·m ,o ment.,
- Q. The,n plea~e uote that poi,- ·t also- and if you ea.n aseenai.n the
m1a1nc -, let 11"" · ,1·,T~ tlH! · ~- · .. I wilt
can instance, too,, the pottel')r
mannfacturerg, and . the cigarette mauutacturers1 The.re a'r e. numeroos
.i nstance - of capitalists, req_o iri _g this kind ,o f oath o:r agreement before1
they gi,,.e man employment..
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l54

BELATIONiS BE1 WEEN ,.J,A.B ()R AND CAPITAL.
1

Q. Ho-' Jong has tba-t s,y sf·em existed, t-A. Well, my connectio•1with
laibor organizations dates heck -only two, years, _
y et I am quit.e fa iliar'
wit.b the \ . stein, I do n,ot know· bow lon,g it bas, existed, but I kn.ow
th ~rt I ··as 'R ot; Ru1~Jl".ri :ed. at all at finding it -·: xisting.
B .. th · : C .B AIRMAN:
Q. In th Ja·s t part of on.r tat,em,e nt on tbis subject yon s·p eak of an
',.a ~l' . ernt~n " ne ~,e r to b. t..■ion t1ected with, any labor orga.n.i zat iou being
adm i uiNter l to a n-1a n hef"orie b . is employed ; earner ron spoke of a&
,, w, ,o ath ; ,,, iH hov." man3 organizations, bav,e you known of .
a,n ,o ath beiu.g
-adm 'i nistei~d --A In ,s peaking of' the " oa,tb"' I had reterenee t,o, the
telegra1~,h s,trike of 1870 a11cl t.he oath :admi'Distered by the w ·es;tern
Unio11 Co111,pa.n5~.
,Q. t ~an yon 11rodu · one of those oaths !'.-A. I can prodnee wen wbo
~u bs1~1·i lk='d to t:I ae oath and who arn i o th.e city to.day, ,a nd who, through
their ~~t1·use of Ibe bind1.ng c'har,act,er of th.at oa.tll, have refused to ,con ..
u.e · t t·h em s Ives ·"'~ith our organi,z a;tion; w Ue others did ,o onnee th,e m ...
se· v,e ,vitli u, and have been. informed sioee, tbait they ne .· d no·t bope,
for au.y turtber emplo3m.,pn·t fr.om the Western :nion Company~ I ,eao
produce wo ·me:n wh.o a,m in: the build.mg who will tell you tbe nat11re
of the oath ..
Q 1 'l \Tithout inquirin,g f1trther of you in .r egard to that just n.ow·, I
·wo~1h.l like if 3~00 ,c an ·find sneh A witness that yon would bring him to
usi, Do Jou 'know whether tbis. s.tate of affairs, ie- · ists be· ween the railroa:d oorpora•i.-ons .au.d their e'm11Ioyes, o:r not!'- ·.. Y,es,, s.i r; if I have
uot, mislaid or cl.rf} ·troy,ed a co1,)l, whi.c-h I bad of a sim1Uar oontraet lean
p,rodnc,.~ it, where, upon the existeooe of the T,-Iegmphers' Br-o,t erbood
being 1nad.~ known to the superintendent of a telegraph lioe where the
telegra11b w·as used for railroad ·p orrposes, the superintendeo· sent a cireu·1a.r to- e,,.er_
'r em pl0;ye of t'be road telling th ··.m that -. bey must im·me..
<liately renounce.eonn.ection wi.th th.e organization,. if . bey wer,e connected
with i.t,,on pain of d·"smissal I had. sn.c h a document in m · · possession
tluring ·t h pr-og.ress of our· movem,e nt, and I tbink that I can · nd it,
though :i t n1ay r,eq,uire a Ii itle ti.met
Q,~ ·Y ou were to 1,-r-oduee t;o..day oertai.n data re.Jating to the 'b i; tory-of
. trike . i.u ."eneral1
· a,-e you that i.nformation with j"ou1:- ·A . No, sir;.
it was to p,i~ocure that intorDiation that I ask,etl for t,ime a.t the beginnin_g of tb .·. h'eari.ug to•clay.
I wnnld Hke no·w, ·w it,b the 11er:mission of the oomm.ittee, to co-ntiuoe
my ~r ·at,eni ~ut in ·r egard t-0· t b : manner of lif~ of the te·l egraph. opera tors~ I 'h a,ve s11ok,en of the ci t)~operators," Ther,e is,a.uother numeroos
clas. , of opera.tors "··ho work nt sr udl t;h_tionk.
Q. Excu·~ ·m e ·t nr int ~t1·u1JtiuJ:· ).ou a, _'a io, but before. you pa ~,s from
the cit,y operator 1 wonld like to 1.Jav,e you give us wha.te.,re information you . possess a~ to bis opportuuities for i·n tellectual impro emon~
for soi~ ahie ~t't;I~ proper amu=semen , and recreation., aud any other in.formation .· bich bears upon tbe actual coud'i ;f on. of the city tele~
_g rapb 01•erator and. hitt, ·mode of Ii£ · - ··... W e11, I v. ill instance t 'WO
-~ases, the l!ase of th " night (tp•· rator and t.b ·. . oi the day operator•
. "fluAd y operJtor o-rk ,- ti·om 8 o'cJock in the morning un.til half pasit 5
/ o''cloc-k in tb.e aft~rooon,. L1,~io_g, as be generally doe_., at some flistanee
• from t.he ·p,lace of his employment, ,either in. the u.p•town distr1-e ts of t:ie
city or .~n the ou: '.kh-tsof .Brooklvn, or perhaps iu some oi" the New ,Jera y towns, b ~ s _,compe Ued.,. in order to reach, his plaee of e111plo1"'ment
at 8 u'clock, to rise at 6 oiclock iu the. ·morniog.. B:e is then oontino•
ously· e.m.ploy,ed,. I m.a.y ~ay, fro:m 6 o'c.1 ook in t .be morning uotil 6 o'c.Jook,
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in -the evenin.g ,. and his. dinneT-time i .s .p ent .i n the te]egrap·h buUdiu,g
as .a . general .r u .e.. T~e. company bal"e a reabuJ'rant i'n tbe top floor of'
the boild'i.n=:,. aucl he is ano ed ha.If' an boor o-r perhaps forty or forty-6.ve
minute . for tlinu~r, aceor-ding to the l ngth of' t''me that be is willing to
wait, for his di.une·r. Wbeu hi _ day's work 1s -done and. he bi..read.y · to
lea.,·e t be building it will be e.!' ore to 6-o'eJook.. ·:e w·i11 rea b b ome
·p robably in t be ueig.h borbood of 8 o'clook in t;he e,reuing, and. tu u ·h.e
will ha, e ao bo--ur and a half' or tw-o hours for social ,enjO}!m . n.t, mental
i.n.-p~,·emeut., re<!Tea.tioE, rest, and the enjoy m.-e nt of ··w hatever other
lox u-ries he can oo m·m,and, ,,,.., heu be ,v ill be ibrced t-o ret-ire i:n order to
be re.atty to ris . a gain a·t 6 o-'clook in th.e morn.in g; a.nd. be 1,nrsu -s this
routine i'rou1 one · nd. of -thew_-. k to· the other. Tbat 1s tbe-life of the
-d ay operator~ I ha-~ , ulwa.y. · considered fhat the night operator has,
in s.001e respectis-the 'best of it. I ·maJ· be wrong, howev-er, for a g.rest
man, of tb me
ho w-o rk in the daytio1e wo1i!d rather do so, while
a -reat many of t'he night 1nen also am anxious 'to ,cet on tbe d~:r f ~
Q. Is the pa1~the .ame . ~A .. About the. sam •~ Tb-e . ·hon.rs of serviee.
-o fth ui,gl1t op ·rator .a re le.ss.. .B .e goe .-t,o work abou·t half'pa.st .5 o'chJC.-.
in th · evening.. In order to de;--so, ifhe live,s at auy dista:o.ee f~m his.
pra.ce of·employ · ent ·h e has to, leave home .a,t,, .say, 4 o'cloo·k~ H,e ·t hen
works his regular hours, unti.1 1 o'clock :in, the morni1J _g , or sometimes
umtil 2 o',c lotk or half'pas,t 2 o''c l,o ck, a.nd. in mauy iustanees ·whe-n ·b usiDSSs is bea·vy be ·wiH. wor-k ou uot] 8 o'c·lock. in 'the morniug.. But, tak ..
in. . the a,v·e rage boor of qo.i tting as a o~cl.ock, he ,s tarts. for bis. home and
r,eeches iLprobably about, half pMt 4 o'clock o·:r o o'cloc·k ~ H,e ·t hen retires to rest . and in order to satisfy th.e w.an-ts ,of nature will probab]y
.sleep if be ea-n until 2 o'clock in the afternoon..
Q~ Does he take bi '. break-fast before retiring· ·t o rest ,~A~ Sometim.e.s, I suppose. It is tb.e rule, ho·wever, aftm- coming out of" the o-ffiee,
whatever the time ·may be, to g,e t a light loueb a·nd then go b.ome and
go to bed.. Tbeu, wakiug up .a t 2 o'clock ia the aft-e-rnoon, he will :have
tim,e to get his dinner and eat-ch the. next, train o:r car :and. reach the
ttfflee , o,· as t,o go t·o wor·k: again at half past 5 o''c lock; so that hi..s opportunities for- enjo .m -nt afe J>erhaps about the sam-e as t·hose of the
day 01•e:rator,, e-x cept that the night ope.rator, by denyiog himself sli e_p,
can have a greater portion of the aft ·FDOOD to walk around. and ._ ·nj-oy
bimself as .h ·: •sees fit., But if Ile. tak-e ·- ·t be prope.r .amount of' rest bis
opportunity tor -uclt enjoyment . wi.H be lin1it. d at the most to, two or
three b.ours.
Q. Bow is it as to ·v neations or an occasional ,da:, o,fff-A. li@ y.~
1

~(: a;~ ~:o:n ~: ::~ :;~t= !~~ ;:Sibf~ g=
11

3

3

h;
!t
~!
If
·. e~-

~a~~

but he,. ill lose IJJis pay dut·ing the tho - he is absent..
he ca,onot
{!llle ·1ea,·l, of ab ence be can hire .~-colleague. to work for bim·, paling
fhat, Rnbstitut, Uf;uaUy at a mu.ch higher rate tha - e. w@uld receive
ior the WO ·k himself~
Q~ T'akiug them .as, a. class, bow · - anJ" days i0t1rt of tbe ,365 days in a
~,-ear do _yon think :be telegraphers w,o rk .-_ _A,., '\VeU, the¥ work 1•.rett:v
.steadily a - ~a -.•·lals~. There are so e,. for instance," ho will be absent fur
..a ,.l ay or t,•lo in the 1Lighborlaood of 1n1y day, but ag a. rule tbey ''lOrk
tbe yea1· t ouud y,e-ry tait hfully, 11inless ·w hen they· take a few days' ,~acation, as 1uuny do, at -heir owu e -pense..
_Q. Com1~~1·i11_g them int-hat regar,l, as ·to ·r egularity of employ·me.nt, ..
··-ith th· . car[leut:er., t he m.asou., and ·m echanics,genemlly, or · grieultora, ,
1•

1

l~b~rs, wh::it ~on~d yo-o say __of_the_~le~rraph operators,t---A~ I _should 'l
certa1u.ly ,saJ that tbey work more-days n file year·t.ban any of t oN,lse~
•-----

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I fi(j,

RELATIONS

ETWEEN' L.ABOR AND CAP'l'TAL.

a . man~r days in on . ,l ' ·· ar as many. of those otbers work in two -sears.
IT'b at ·is ow·i ng som1ewba , to the uat1,ire of the b·nsi.nes ~. I is ,carried on.
indoors, while. n1any of those @th r trade have to he, conducted ont8it1 and ar-e rntluen ·. ·e,1 bJ" 'tb - ·,r"it~[ tber..
te·le,g rapher ·wor •· more
da. ~- , in tl1e .:re··u· 1•ro·b a'bl.J ban are 1 01·ked by tb e e· - ployes, i·n any
otlu~r t.ltJ~·~u:· tn,ent of'" iutln-~try ..
1

OPER.A.1 0 . -,

Q,., You were J?Oiu,:r on 'to ··t•eak of' the coun ry operator; what hale

1

Jtou ·t o say ubout bi'm _-A.~ Yet~, I wa ~oing to 81,eak no-t 001 of · be
count·r. - opt~rnt'or1 but (~f thos · orking iu ·t owu · and ..:01all ,cl.tie and
along t ·h e lin~ ~ • f :r ailroad., vlbo are forced f o \\ ork fron1 7 ,o'cloc ·. or 8
o'clo k in the DHJ!'rning untn O or 10 o clock at n g·1t, ·week._ iu aud w ek
1 ,

ont. TltfAJ, llav uo so ~b s, . te·HJ of l~"nlatiu11 of their office bu~i . ·
ag tha.t \\"' ieh cxi its ju 11me :l arge ct u~,; : \\~be-~ (liOere .t. squad , of n1eo

come to t. he r-eli 'f o,f each. ot bcr. ID t h 0as S a.m- "pea]i.iug ot
the 01•er'"1to, 8, being tb · OD1\ one,·. iu tbe 1>1ace, have to do a-I th
'b u ~i.11t . · - and in. add1 iou to 'their du'ti s as o_peratoi· . th .) are cal ed
i 1,on t .) p(•1-forn1 other work. ,~1ich a · ntnvitehin,g ," attending to baggaJte,
and Hgbt:ing ·1a1rq,s, ~on,~ in1e· · ha,·ing to go a mil. along th@ trac , to
light ~.igual b1n111,t. Tl1. y ·b, l · to · · g oeml utilit-y men around the,
stat.ion:- ,,.~_be, e t · e-_y wo1·'k. · ,f ,course tb . ir · elegraph work i ·, not so
c,ou tiniu a ,. it i , ·iu th . ,c:i t , .., aucl i· - does not req,uire. ~ he. an1e. amount
of c1o~e ,a ttet1tio as the · ork in a ar ;e '·· it.y doe ., , but, ,ou the other
h·. nd.,, tl,e· are ea]I d upon to perform a nniltiplicU:f of duties which
fully :1nak UJ) for auy di1ierence there n1ay be in t eir fa or in the natnr1e of th. · telegraphic work the - have to do,.,
Cll ll

1:

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l,

A ·tiot-h er c]a~s ,o f op ·ratoir.s that - e t'blnk. unju; t1y treated are t ,e
female ope.r ators. Th ·v ~eiee·.v , mueb les~ , oo:m·petL · t.iion ·ba · th : men,
alt.bough tbey work Jong and faifhful1:r, and perfor1n. their tlu.ties iu a

very ac,c ·ptabl:e n1anner.
Q. Bo,,\~ is it as t,0 'tbe . xpen siven -ss of tbeir li t-eli bootl a,s com·p ared
with tba of tbe male operator f._ - It is g n ,r an admitt d that ,.
1

1

omau ,c an liYe on mucl 1 ,s.. 1hau Hi uun ca.u. Ji,~·e 011.
Q,., · ·oJoo. k.uow what the feu1.ale op rotor.·. pay for boart1 as ,_ rule ., _
A .., I tlo uot kmow " ·hat ·he:· ·p a,~ =ts a ~•e ne a 'l ·r ole, bnt it hs, a t -"'ff.e J.· · s
than tb.tt wllich tb m . 11 have t.,o J,Ul~ ~
Q. I ·, th -re-anything else, J:UU w·~sh tu $t·1t iu 1egard to ti.Ji_ general
1

subject .- ·.. I dou'-t. kuo,v o-f au~vtbiug el e that l ha e to state just
no,v; b 1t 1 , ·ill r·v to proc11 ,e sot 1,e tac~t and fi,g ures to be.. prese:n.ted
I

to th comrniitt •· at a ]e, ter period of 1·l•t~ 10,.· _~tigation .
Th, - CHA.l RlIAN.• .I under too(lyou o ~·•,. that you ,voultl be p.repar,ed
;o submit lhO;s i'it .·t ' aud ngnr.e~ _o-uurn"t·o ' D.IOrDing. If y,ou Cc D, be
ready itt t b1a.t time · t , ~ball be .-lad to ~ceil e tben11
('Tb ·· xam1ina · io11 of l e .. itnes ·· wuH here Sl1SJl ·. Hded . )
I

~EW

Tno,.

,t:As

y ORK, A11gu.s·t 14, 1883,.,

·0 1l{;E1L,L Y s.w orn and •. xam·i ued .

·n y . · r. PuG,. -.:
Que ·. tion _ PJ.e ase ·tate your proft. sio11 and how· Joug

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

you have fol;;,

1.57:

BELATIONS .BETWEEN' LA.BO·R .i lID C· .PIT'.AL..
1

low d it - .Answer. I a·m a tel,e gr.aph ope· ator.
ployed for a·bout 12 .. ears.

I ·h ave been

.

1SO

em-

_

Q. Where f -..4... Te years Hlnd a half iu Edi.nbnrgh,, Soot1a:nd!, and
one year and a lu1lf i11 · · . e·w York· Cit.y..
·•
Q. Please state to the com1mitt · ·..·. yr0u1· nnder.,i . anding r0f the ,e au.se or
•c ause of tbe. pr, s nt strik o.f t.he telegratlh ope·r ators.-A1 "'ft~ell..,. I
ba,..·e J>ersonal kuov.-ledge o:f the eoodition of a'.Wairs onlrv since I ca·1n 'to
this city, b 1t if you ask me. why 1,,~y,.,. Jf and m1y coll!e agues w·h o are here.
fron1 th cltll. -r · 1d,e of the . tla ·f c ba,..e pa:rtici11at.ed in. this mo eme t,
I sh~ ll be able ·o fnru1 •h you with more information pertlinn1ng to .· neh
query aij tbatt
Q.. o y.,ou b long to th 'K nights of La.'b or : - . Y1e~,1sir; I am a.
1ne11lber of' the Telegra1,hic . ,rother-bood.
1

GBlEVANC

s. o ,F '

"l'HE WHEATSTONE O.P ER '· 70,es.

Q. Our object l ou under.stand, is, to get. at r:JJ... f:1.cts in rela o·u to
the ,c ause or cau es of th.e 11·r esent st1·i ke, tbe grievallces that. the operators see.k to have re tnedied bl the stri!k . .. .and any other- ·information tbat
yon ba,l'e Hpon t.hat ileneral sul~i•e ct and ,vb:•·c h yoo are williu~ to gi,~e
to the oomtuittee-~ You can go ou and ta.t,e it ·mu your O\\"ll · ar.i-A_
,,~eU, ,y ou 11ave hearol tbe ,e vid u.ce on be·b alf oftbo '~ ,,rho are kuo,,-u in
the profe ~on as the Morse 01,erat.ors.i l cau - o,f gi,..e ) ' OU. · o,i.o .hwt,s
F

on l)ebalf of thos · ·,vbo am known as \Vheab ton . op . ,--ator.s. T'.IJe
l\ bea· ston · S)~stem is a new S!f.:stem ,o f te1'=',g1·aphy which ha ,b ·. u intro~

dHced Iarg,e l)? in E_n gla·nd, aull \\., hich IJn been iutrodt1ced from t'her-e
h1to t.be Western Uni.on office ber,e. Tbere, are, •O:r "",et·e, eig'h t English

-operators en·· ·a 01,ed in the dev, . 101,m u't of the s~~s. em ber,e for th ·•· , ., ..·s-te1 n niou Oom.r1an.,~~· Those En_glisb ope.rato~ .,, u· i th one excei)t1on, IJa,. . e
co"'oper .t , d with their Mo1·~e colleaguc•,s in the mov. ment \\".bicb took
place oo the 1'9th of la .-. -. ·mo11th, d·i1-ectly b ·. cau •. e of th " 01a11 v grie., ..
ances of' wbichr we our,~.1,e,· had to cou1plain, growin,t ont of the du ..
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.

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1~li iity· .and v ry ,deceitful. treat eut ,vbieh ·w·e. bc1.ve ref!ei\"' e d at the
b on< s of t.he l\"'' st ··r n U n iou otticia i.g, ,uid, fbe d.i shooes( tri,e k · ry to,
,, laich ·w·,e hav.. been subject,t"d in th :.~· 1uatte·r of our engagement .. ,, ttud,
1

.s econd]:., in ,J"tH])atby with our- .. me1:1c·'Ul c0Heagues1 the Mor:·.. up~rator: .• In. J uHe of I.a .it year. t b~l"e ,, a-e four \V h ea:tstflne O})t:rnttors, ill the
,\T1e steru .. n1on Com111au3',soflicebere. \\ ee.alled upon Mr. Hum.ston?. tbe x·
superintendent, ·w bo tllen 'iuforu1ed u:s that tbe instr11m·· uts bad not Jfe-t
arrived fro1n : ' ur-01,e,, but ,,,ere ,expected ,d aily- He said he bad. uo

doub · t.bat OJ)err tio,us nnd.e r the new· s;yst .·m wou:l d commence i'n a
1no:o . h or t . ·o,.and as·k ed HS to 1·t~mai . with the compao, t1ntil ·he.expiration of t,ha t titoe, · ._ b u be ·fluid. be able to . t. us. to v.?o:rk.. ~ e. agree(I
to do ao,. and .b e ofterell us as .u, r.eoonJ.peuse as a .Jigh't retainer ,ve ·.e,:.ard.e d it-$20 a month,, juli,t su -cif'JJtto :p ay our-bot! m.. We aooopied.
that, 'ha,'{'"i ng so1ne Httl.e m,one.y of" our own. tLat ·. e knew would. ~-b11Jd
b,y o.s ·u ntil tbe 10011th or t\lo ha.d expired. T'b.rt!e month.s. W•:nt bJ, aud
theoo wa.M no,, 01-d oft.be ius.trumeuts coming f.rotu EurOJte. · _. . . tbt~H
unule ,a,pp.Jicatioo ·fo-r au · ltlitiou to · his .all.owa11ce ·1hat 1-r,e we~e reeei,·..
big, a,u a aft r ome lit.tie troubl tbe allow ·_ nee was. iuc~eased to . _.:!'J .a
.m onth.. The in trnmeut~ ttn-ived. al100.t the ,e nd. of la t o ,ctob~r., a:ud
al hongh we ·posbed mat tPl"lS cu usider'1 bl.·, ·tbe1·e was no ,e .i·de11 ee on the
Jlart of ·t h · ai1thoritie ,of thP \Ves.t ern Uuion Company that tl1e5 ,vere
going to comweuct,: l.lnsine .s a: . on.oo ; so ·we ,d rew out .a memorial, which
Wali si,g netl b~y all of us,, des ·ring th.at., as w,e were spending· ·v aluablA
ti- e .i n the : eeviee of the oo:01pauy and in their iatere·-~t, theJ woul,d
. I

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158

RELAT'IONS BETWEEN LA.BOB A'N D C.A.PfTAL

giv·e us som.e, f,1rfher allowan,ce, as 'W e eon· idered we were being 1sliab..
bily tr· ated and felt that, •e eooJd utilize our time to more advanta.g e
by seek1Dg· otber situations outside. , Such au act a,s t a t w.as re ·anlet~
by th · c-0mpau y as~ ~,e ry objectionab1e;,:som.et'bin g ~ ·b icb they·de.pr-eeatedl
1

very mnch,, and they threatened to snspend me tor t,h is reason only, that
w ,y namt~ a.p ]l .·ar ·d fl rat as one of the 1Sig11atorie ~· Howe,.. er, tbe tbrea. t
, '.as no pu in ,ex cuti.on, ~- cau .• our sup riutend. n , )Ir.. F .r ea:r , an
En~lishuh~n, came to my rescu ~ and . . xphih1ed to Mrt .H um to11e. that
whatev~r n1i,g ht b .· he i1otion. . oft.be
:t(.rn Uuio111 o·· -eia):s in r . ·gar<l
to so e · a movemeu t, t bi: ,vas, t'he })1 an adopted by clerks ~,n
glaud.
vrhen tbeJ had cu1l-·tbiug to eomplain of to the r- emJl•loy · ll"\ or an,, de~
sire or regue ·it to exp:ress. B ,e explain~d to Ir. -"',umstone · bat in
such case they put · heir 'F e()lle~ts o.n paper and. 1signed them,, and ·b y
th.tt e.xphrntttion b ll.JlJleased th.e wrath of" llr. ,umrs to_e, 3'Dd Gen,era]
. , ftl,-~e1 1. a,' •I a. 'fi w otb :rs .
Q·. lrbo i8 l\Jr,. Hnmstone ·~,- .A.. · e is the as -,istant general snpe·rin"'
t . udeut of tlu.., "V\T,e stern Union T I _·graph ·C ompany
So, a
ha.v e· sa,·i d,
I tiH:apei·l ooHtlem:JuH iun,. or at least su~p nRion,, ,a t that -ti·me. Matters,
wt ut ou iH thi~ fashion until th · 29th oi" February~ I migh·t here state,
t]iat '«~ben Mr~ ; um-stone e11gage(l ll s in the m,o.nth of July he told us,
that ,,·be. n 1'he sy .ti.:-n · .c,omn1 need to work wewouldb ·.. putou the ,sa.me
ecale w:i th U1e other first-cla s operator -, and from that 'W e presumed
tha· we '"··o,dd r ~eiV't! r ~ala·l j- ,eq oa.l to tirst~elass, bands,
Q, · , hy do yon des1.g nate th1e operntors as l'or '.e .a nd Wheat tone
OIH},rato · , <-A . Th - :11.on;e S,J~stem is one sy ,tern oftele.g rapby and the

We .

1

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1

1

Wheat ton ·. 'is auother. ,
Q·. What is th.·.· ,t iffe1. Poe " f.-Ai TJ1e .Mo:rse,·is a. sound s.ystem of tele~
.g raph arul tl e w ·h£'at ~tolle i1s an automatic ~,ystem . To continue, these

·.· er~.: tlt ., pr,o ni~es autl i duciem,e11 · s held out to us by Kr~ Unmstone:
t 11 at tt· we 1 .l,01,ai necl un t'i.l e,~eryt h i.n g: was in r,eiad i n.ess to d•eve lop tbi · .
11 w )~stein ,:-. '~ would be. r, ward.eel for our ·w ]J .. tried patieuee. in a ·vl):·r.v
1s atisfactoIT ·m ann·. ·r~. On tbe 29th
l•'e'b rnary w,e w,ere t-0ld th:. t on
1

or·

'the folo,,·inJl day th .. · 'W heatstone S:Ystem .. ·uuld co,m tence to work,
~1.nd "ln1ong other thinnR w · ic'b · ·r. Deali·, t ·e direct manager of 'f.he
dt'l)irtmen , then told n,s ,as tbe· state~·en,'t tbat our salaries w·ould be
f5o 'l ter 1nonth. Well, t.ba W'&S rn-tb r a su:r p,r i :'iug announcement to
us,, and it show',e d u . -I a1il y th.a< tine .~tat•ment · or promi ::es ma.de b:Y.
any ,of Ille officials of th,e Western _ nion Oompa.n~ w ··r e, in no manner
to be relied ·u pon I asked 1\Jrj Deal.y that day,, ou behalf" of tl1e o-tlae·rs,
w beth :i.r ours· .I ar~r at th a ra; ,e was to be JJ . rm.an · nt. H.e s~iid 1,res,01nabl,y
',o.. I said,,, V\ hat a.n1 .I to mak · of tb._ prom,··se tha·t ·wrere 'held. out to 08
'b y )Ir~ e ·um _tou aud som,e. othel"i of the officials "' H,e saicl ith. 'that
he J·· . d 11otbing to ,do,; that tbese we. - · his instruct.ions,.
Q. · _,e sai<l b ·· w.a, · " cting under iu· 'tructions f:- Ai - - ~ said h .· ·w as,
D.ctiug under iust.r uet1on ,~ Our O\l'H superiut,e ndeut, . Ir . Frear~ tlid
aU h1 ht power to i · 11r,o,·e t · ,e condition of affairs, but be was heJpless,.
De also thouglit tbut our treatment was disgrace.fol in the extre1ne; .he
knew t.bat \Te. had been 1•romised these induceLu nt.;1 and be :kne , thr · "t
tile 'DH\Ua," ement bud br-ok,.·n faith with, us We r,e solved, bow _·v ,e r,, th : ·t
we wonlcl gi,,.e tl1e new system a .rial notw·itb,s tanding all tbb;,11ersec11tiou, aod we had «t meetin, , au .o og oursel ,. s ,on ·t hat n'ight ud dJ~eided
pr~tt · ge·n eraUy that . 'e should s _ar in t.~e nior.ning, the. 1st of · arch,
and gi,"e.·the syst, •ma triul for month, . nd then make further advances
to the co.m pany, . .-Dd ·i f those ad v·a:uces were DO't listened to or hee(led
'tb,tt 1 e W'ODld tbroiw the wbol,e matter off our hands In t.b .f irst
n1.ou h ,on the · .- .heat .tone s~ys .. tn, ·.e sent flfitee'D tbousaod and odd
1

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159

BELA'T l·ONS BETWEEN LA.BOB AND CAPJTAL,..
1

m ~· .gee, between Ne . · York and Chieago, o·n the one ·_ ire-.,, working
both wa_ys at onee-tbe duplex system,. Our total number :for that,
month w . 5,429 message .. ·w e were told that as the system d .. vel•
op d our prospects .. ,o uld i:mprove,, and that ou· salaries woo1d. b · ina.
c1 .\.ased, and 1n t hi..· maunerw .wer,e intluced to go . o month a'fter mo11th,
and when the da .· · of pas me . t, the pay day ., c·ime nea; , there wa :,al

way:i so1ne ,conte·.m1>•t fble excose gi., en wh · 1\·e . bould w,"' i.t ano. her
m:011th.. In · he ·mouth. of April our t,otal ., inc·rea,s <l by 4,000 nH~: '""sa-~es.
at 'I r::" st. \ ,. e di,d ninet ll thonsaud at1 d odd m . sag - . in th;1. ,m outh.
Iu '~ lay we tlitl twen.t) - ·b ree tho1r;1sau,l an,i odd Bl s - a.g es!! Th com-,
.i t e will ote tha we were b,rrnclu.a11..:v d.e ,..· .lopin.J( the , f . te1n a,ntl i
c1 asing the ,vork each ·month.. I u tbe month of June ou:r t,o ·.J,
think, ·, ,a: tweu1~·~sel'"en thou · and and odd messages, and .i nt.he u1011.t b
,o f July . e in ·reased the tota.1 wo,r kiog ,capnc;ity of the , iogl .: wir t,o,
t. 1b ty~eig'h · hon -__ nd .an.d ,O(]d me,ssa,ges 'bet\veen the ,s a.m ·, poiut ..
·On the day pr vious t,o this emergenc:y arising, tha . i . ,, on the 18th of
,J n.l, , · b .. n1aua,o-.e r eam.e to ou1 eorne·r of th.e office aod a 'k ed oor u per;;
int· ode.nt, wh tber be thought any of tbe Eu, Ii ·b ba.od· . belonged to tbe
:ro berhood of Telegr· p·h. r .. or not.. I am no - sure wh.a:t the repl,~ , f'
th.·: ·up .r intendeut wa.s,, bu·t .-r., Dealy held ,o ut iud.llecwent,s to he
Eo~lis,b operators at that late moment,, sa . · i'D,g that if t .ey would. st~·ndl
JoJ~..tl to, fhe co.m:pauy th• ·y would - ot _.- . e fo~got en; but we had been o
long and so oft·n. ''ft•rgotteu" that ., e determined. to act honorabl) a.nd
bo,nestly o the followin,g da,J \ a.-nd _ow .. did; tor when the, 11,o ne oper~tor-s ·t urned ou - on that day ·t he English o_p erators turned out ·w ith
th.em. That i . the state of the case so far as the ·w heatston men a.re
1

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concerned."
B··· 1\lr.. G ·E OR.GE-:
Q. Row many of /OD are there ·,......... • There are. ight of us~
,Q.. Is lr Dealy tt1e s.pecial_s.u·p ··r intende . ·t of thos · e1·,g ht ,-A. ·.•o;
h.e. i the sup · rintend.e ntof tb:e entire operating de·p artment in the Wes~
e ,- n Union office~ 0.f cou·r,se be b. .' con.trot o er our work .also,..
Q·. And th · re is n.o s.peeial ,superin·tende .t in your portion of' 'he
work _- A.. ·es; we · .a ve also a direct superintenden t~ Ir... ·rear.
1

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·r.

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- G H:
-

-

•,_·-re you stated all that you desirie to state in reference to, he
.r -elations of tbe Wheatstone o-petators tbr the · •·es.tern ·u nio . Company· -A. I bave stated all tba·t I de:ire to state-thait the promise
made to us .'. :,e·r e broken,, tb · t -h e ind·n c m -nts be]d on to 11s from
time to time have. no,t, been fnlfiDed, and t-ba't we have been s.ubjected
'to os · palpable and deeei1ful trick,ery- on the p ._ rt of the We . t .·.rn
.·n1on offlci·1.ls, hav1na been deceived by them in every ·p.os::;ible faLShion
and m.anne1·~
Q.. : ,,.,e you any i,1ea ,o f how many Wheatstone. operator-.. the,y had
in their e p loy in thi.s ,city .-A.. Only .b.e eigl.Jt tbai'· I ave ·.· en'tioned.
Q.. a-"~e t ey no any othe , operato:r,s o·r tba·t clas ,t-A;i -~ • , sir;I
they h~ y·..· no1',. The,r e ,vu .· a. s alf otu .· h ·.18th of last · ontb nu1nb .ring-ei"b't principal operat(HitS an . ten. other person ., who ba·,_-r.e been lb~
structed in :b,e system since we cam.e bere. · .e instrae.ted them and
brought them u.p to a perfect ,s tate of' effl.,ci-ency tn the interest of the
Q.

1

1

eo:wpaa1\.

·Q~ \Vbat time does i · tak:e to instruc . in th. Wbea-tstone B:l·s:tem ., _

.A . 'Io mak. ~-- •~· 'Jl~rt, W~eats~-0ue opera~r· takes a.bout five years, bo·t
1

a person c.an be w1tiated. into the mysteries of the syste·m so as to ,do

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

160

RELAT.IO,N'S BE'T W.E EN LABO'R A'~-n

,c .· PJ,'T A

.•

wbat i · ter.me(]l copyin,g wor·t -tl1at i , rece1v1ng ork-in about three
or fom n1ontb,s~
B,y _lr," ALDRJCH:.
Q. Do ,:rou ·. no r· '\l-' h tb~r tbe y em. ·t, ow i . use by tli ·w ·'., .t :r n
l 'niou Cou )H-111,,\ t-A~ The s,stem is used in the ·w estern Uniou Oom·Jlft.l:1) het,~t ttu ~ (-1'·, .: Y,o.rk. ~•od · l1ic~
a.go only.
,Q. u~ a it -e ,·, r lle n ii .1 n e an\ , ·be~ - .·l" 'e [1 · re - · . . ~ot in this
conn try"'
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B:v.

tl1P ( j u \IRMA..: :

Q., Tt;1t ·mK ;1, s,y~tP.Ul ha ~tl ou })I{ t n. , l nppo~ - .. , es, sir.
Q., 11~1\" pat nts b en obta,u.etl for i iu tliis country l~A, I uoder
· bu1tl ,~o .
Q. \\Tho o"~, .,. theni -A.., Th · \"f estern uion T,elegr-c1·11h Company.
Q. Autl Jon u~ rt.. en11l'l!oyed, ,,.~th your J·r ieud .· as il staif' · o introduoo
th ~ s,y~:tt 1n ·1u·1 ct euUy h r~ ~u,< to i.nstrnet 0th.er ope·:ratois, aind of
CO'tU"tie ) 'OU lrl°i,so XI H?Ct 1 t mploym nt s, ours It es _-A. · . erta1oly.
Q., \tul you st~tt.e t ha. t in consequence of the . -ours~ of t~ - tment
w J11u~h )'OU ha,~ ti~ erihed b · re vou ttud your friend-,ha,e.struck witb.. tb.e
(}tb r o: J~rato1·~ -A. Yes, sir; that iM one reason, .a ud · 1night &aJ that
is tbe ]n111uuonut 'r ea on tor onr ,ae ion We, were trea1ted so bad,ly b,y
th · compau~~th ..it w httJ no .alt . rua. ~, e but to lealte th . m.a tter in ,h eir
11,~,nd s and t'urn ,o ut in ~ J 01 pat y l\"'Ttb our American friends.
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1

Q.. •. ·.' 11enk: ng of 'the .··. ·~rican .P atent , for _he '\\""'.heatstoue. system and ·

, heir ,owne1·shiJl by the ··... ·_, tern U oion T legraph Com pan,-,, do yo -

know ,,

clt

the company paid ifor those patent 1-A. No,, ·.ir; I

ktaO'W

tl1·,, t tb· , ,■ ost of tbe iu ~trun.1 pf· , ·t b ., ca- e ,o ut :from Europ . • ,m.o tmted
to ~i Ht tle o,., e r i'.}(J,000
(~. A ..· all t I1ois ., iustr11 men:t .· now 1n use bet,·,eeu N -w· Y or · and.
,. . h·iic ago ·f -A .. ·TLey are rot .all ·io use, bu,t th ya.re all b .re.,
Ci ·~ ha-r. J),ro1mrtion of tben1 are used ! -A. · ·. , . ery . ,m all proportio
ut pre . ut,. be ,■ au ~e i.t wa~ th · :iuwntion of the compao . 'to open up the.
s~\·st,eo1 b~ t'wl~€ u o:ther ·poi u t . a) o
(] .A..ud ,,~a. tll~s g · pplJ of iu t-r u.ment
up.p os -d, to be. suffie.· ent to
httJ.odue .. the S)~~rteJn ge 1e.raUy betw,eeu other 11laces. throu,hont the
t=OU u try ! -..\ ~ . ,eg, sir
Q, Ha\·~ you knowh~dp; ·· of any additional facts, bieh. tend to throw
Ii ll u1>ou f 1 1r oln ble cost of the pm;1tents, th mselves, th "'nven'tiou ~ t-A I c I u no . ten :r nu ~•h about ·-bat, beeause it ~ -,: .ry diffi,c ,dt
'f o obtau 1 8u,c,I 1 ·i n fbrma tiou~
Q .. _,\7 ho ·i · , he o,v-.11er of tbe Wheat to11e patents in England :_ ..\.
The Briti, .b Governmeut. ,
Q. And ·w··,~ be 1·ight. ,v hi cit t be ·· . ,e steru 'U.nion ,c onlpan~ owns obtaJ ned by n · :!!O iaition with tb.e B,r itish Govemment!-A.. No; n · di~
r,e "·· ty ,~itb. th, GoY rrnuent-, A .1•a t of · be patents wa-s,obtained from
th f1 i : 1. d8 01 e· '. .,ecu tors of Cb ·1 rles Wbea tstone, the in Yeutor..
,Q. I>o you k,now for what om. thuse right . w,ere soJd to the Western
l}uiou Co11 Jlau,·· -A~ I do n · t
Q~ 'T h · ,}l bought OU't he : beatstone ·i nterest, a.nd. then ,a,n, additional
n1tere~t fron1 the Br··t i h Go, er1r m,e n . ; is , at the w: :y·· :- A.. No; I
do, no · think the .e ·wa . any necessitJ· to neg-othtte with the British Gov~
l,

ernment at all.

Q. Then, wbat.e.. er tbe cost of t·he invention was.1 ·i t was pa.id to tbe
Wbea,tston.e interest ··- A,. Y es, sir.
._
Q. Do you kn.ow what th · E ·g is Go ·eroment, paid the inventor!1

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

16)

RELATJ,ONS R'lET'\ VEE,N. LA.HOR ,\XD C.lPITAL..

...:\.. I cannot sn~ ·_ becau e the. purcha e was n~.alle uefor~ I ,e otere,l the
s ,r,:- i e..

,Q~ Bow old a-process i - ,~t : - -A . I dare ~ay it bas been n u~e hi England for th · pa, t four t" t'll o,r fifteen ., ·ear::, at ]east.. I is tl1e ,s3,~tem
tl1 at i ~, us d, genera Hy rill th ron.:;.; h G1-e~1t ll l ~ t ~1in .and ] r .h1 ru] .

Q.. Is ·i t co 11 si(ler ~d h(.. tt er t h·1 u t Ile. ll (•1·st', -~s ~ t t",1n !'- ..\ , \ '" t: ~, ~1 r ; it
i:s ,~on~id(.11 -d b tter 1hr the 1n·_ -·110~ .~s for "·hich tlM~ telegraJ)h. i~ u~.. fitl in
Eugland. Ith; cous.i den·d ·1.nu(~h superior tc the llo se KJSte1ll torn t:'

there.,

Q. I:-or wl1at

J't •

sou~ !-A .

,v·eu,, · e<•~1u~~

of" the, ~xtra ~nbount of

uc,1~,Pat,l f't ,\·ork tL~lt i- tlou~- therea
()... 1:s i ,t ch . n1 ,e1· ]U·uc ,~ij~I th a.u th~ l [or e .......... A ,., BY 110 n1 · -:1 us.
Q,. J~ ~t one re(1niti.up: le:s: ~killetl l_u bor·t - .· ..• ·x o; it i~qui:re~, mo,re
1

k ~ llt. (l lilbo;r ; but i· i . ,a -lu),rt." (''XJ)aJ ~i,~u ~ y,~·t ·. 111,..
<)~ -~ lore 1a1Jitl and 0101e t ffi.cient ~ i ti -: lt u·bi , you tu an ---A i '' "Tell,
·fl il.~rl" , n . J)lllD)" Pllfl)Ose,s t'or ~.hi,ch i t :an . e uf liz d an,l tor w hicb tbe
1·lo1\·~ svsttlu1 is not av ,tHabl(!,,,
,( l. \.i• '. · h Jt -~ otl1er- pura.·O ~.s ·: lor wl1Jicb the I\Io e ·_v:2.ten1 is a 1: .a i al,]e
aud 1iret'r1.abl .- to t hl~ \Vh,iat~toue , in other words., h; tbere , n ~ li'keli liou( thnt the one ,,·ill · ver sn1~ n~etle , h.e ot'h r- ---A... Not in thhs ,r oun trv~ Tl~e ,,11 . at ·tou syst'- .1n, ho,\~·e ver, l1as ,super~eded ·tl1e Mo:r,$e
~
tcu . t~t•n. :p let,1 ly iu EugI~1ntl ·
(l.. ,,-t-U,, rs., by - hou]f' ·i t uot supe·r sede it in tbl. Hite,d State·~ ,a lso l ~\ . Iu th first Jl.tu.:,p, i _. is a n~ueh 1nore costly ,·y t u1 ~ tbe di.stances
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g1. afer h r : ; ·b ;f' · fa:; not n ,i-r1y the ·utri · · 111011ut of l)ress
1\~ol'k tlone by t~l .:;traJ)h 11 . r ' , hat there is, done u 1 the otbe.r sill . It:
" ~ou h l be Y . 1·v tl iillct J t to ~i'\ -e a ,~·e1· b=:tl .:r.xpla: ntio-· ,of · lr ,al, a,c i ty of
tu~-s:rste.m to thos~ wl10 a·r · no initiated, lint if tb y could..Sl•e it in op •
t · r,r ion tlu~y, ,,-ou hl ·t b •u se~- more di ri c tl .- it~ pectHit u·ities a ~1 unil ·r ~ tu u d th: n1 b rt 1\
l,1,, .· llnd- ·r stood sou to Auy tltat tb ~l!ntI · 111 -n ,v,ho int.roduced the
~>" ~t~u~ . , nr w ~,1.. . introduci,ug it,, 'i ttlt the \\ , .st- .ro U uioo C'on11,au~~ laere
11· .\·<:. i ·11 ~ truck ~-A. ~ ·.. ~., si1 · " ·i.tll o ie e - .te11,tion, onr .ui~ -ri11t ndeut;
he 1·e111ained .
Q. ud tb~. f4.~Rten1 iR beiug op rat ,~tl ~ iU - . .. It is bei:n~ o_p rated
..1t. i1,re~ e:ut after a faidiion~ It" ,r.·e -~·er "' t,o beli ,e the ,v·e l-'I u
ni.nn
o:fiiciah, J1 tin" )ltriodil.al bull -1mus 1\.. hich tl1 y SSUt,, it is llO"illg a~ \\"ell
uon· ~son tl1e dny JU'1 ~,,~ious i·o our mor~rnen -, bU' \1 kno,v hat it is an
n bsalute iu1pos!S1b1fit,-, arul thos statenu~),ntis to be a bsnh1tel) fh l e,.
Q. How do you Ju,o,.;\" .hat 1:__ :\.. ,;r\ e k.n:ow ·,r ry ,v JI tha·, it is uot
Ukt .IJi that he ~y-• 1-e1111 can be doing nen-rt as 1nucl• ,\··o ·k :no,¥, ,,,. hen
st~,:1~n of thli: J>rincipal 01lerato:rs" thee ~11ert 011er tor~ in~e outside of tbe
,, ( •t ·111 Union Dn1hlin,g ·, and wh · -n n11lv ~l f ~,"- no, 1.ee- en1 .- .in in._ id .. ~
utP nn1clt

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(J~ I.lo-yo -. ·k nuw tbe indiViidn.1ls, who are

~~ t nrst"l,es

UO\'f

em,plo,;ell ·i nstead. of

i 1 01~rr·lting , he s,~·steo1 .·- A.. Certsiul~.
<i~ ~ou .kuow t len1 }l'ersonally nutl the {l·~ t,ent- of the-i r training anfl
(!Hflt-Ii i t..Y as operators,! -. .. I know,, sir, t-h at ~1ny one of tb e gt 11 t 1.e1 nen
J10,, OU' s,ide ot the bt1ihlinP- ,c aL do si.x times the n.n1oun · ,o f "'ork fbat
·iuy o-f the incU,,iduaJ=s ·1:0,;, wo1. ~ing th · Nl~~.t .u1 ·i n t,bat office cau do.
Th eretore it, i~, a; na- .n ral co,1clusion th a,t the_ are. uo doi ,w ~ 1 frnc t ion al
portion of' th,e ,vor·t that we did duil.J b1 ' that sy·s t,em. befo,re- tbe 19th of'
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,July,.

.

~

Q, From · he number of messa_g es , l11eb you. s ·•:ut during· tl1,e J'a st
nionth you ,-re·re., mployed, .and from the character of . be service now
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·e mployed, in do ~Hg · ·nch work. in tba.-t offioo, state bow' 1na.n_~.. mes ·ages,
a,e · ording, to your- best judg1nent, are HO betn_cr transni itted by the
1

11 C·-

...... (5·

1

AW)

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

'W 'bti•U'trstouc SJ~ten1l in lse b the Wet,tern 'U nion ,com1J)3.lll !-A-~FI"om
a ·r,tjo l ial, l in lhr:u1 .,1 u t . frorn ·,,-11 ou1 ·u, (~ rreei ·,.e «ln ily ·j n forrn at ion of the
bn sines. tlou ,, "~,e k UO'\l t l at t.hev cl re 1\-ror. ~ in,g Yt r:, had 1y 'iind eed, and
t a ·. the~~ a.re nu~, bl~ t,o tlo t:-'\"" en a frac ,c nnl. portiou of' tbe a.1uoi1n 1· of'
1

·w ork t mat ~ n,s done tl1(1-r,e 'lJitdin· ~ t -1 · 1.U(h of .l ast 1nonth~ 'l \"e kno\\;al ·o uu Uu. ot ht r · 111u, I. t hn t th~ \,\ ,· t •__ , (l'l •n Tu i u !1. otli iaJs h:r,~f~· ·1·e1)ortt tl
tb~].t. fher H re doi u4-,, e,~,t.n ,n,n,~ ,:roi· t_.. h,· tbr ,,~ 1ent.:ton S) -~,cu1 tll~ ·1.
·,\'. e vrt'ffl., d.oi n~ Jtifc.n the ~ti-ik: took plac . , : t" conrsc .. e c 1n 11.J .'f
u1.-.on thP 1niht1nn t io I th at ,,re 1~c -~i,-~, tli.r ·~c ly ft•on1 tit ~ ollic .~ lll <1 ,1 -e
k nt),\\"' tl1.:~.t tltt~ re1 01·t -:- ·-u~11 ie·1 tlae 111.a1:n l,!."t: rs }Hl't fn1 lb. are 1al~eho( 1tl~,
.~ ltn·iag fiL t··ho 1d~; uot o u1J· tlu. . 1•,t. porr~ frou1 -o,· r to1·n1:~r of the olli . ,
hut- fl·uuJ rht. ofHct g-en·-~1·~~H~rt 1'1u•-ir . tat,@n1ents ~i.s to the pr · · nt \\ orking ellP"'lei t,r of t I ·t~ 1;01-- ~:·e ate all greu tJ v 1ut1,gn1tl. tl,, n.ud th ·r ·fi ~1-e
nutru(.,.
(~ . ]) • ~-flu ht·ar cf,i 1pla.iut~ front int 1 ~htnnt· t ut~·hl ~ for "~hom the
~e1·,·i,1c. is tl~n1t- ,c1n11~] aii-1ts fl'on1 lie, pt1l ·iic gen ·. t·al1,,·-tha.t their .rnes&"l~t.is •·,trt~· not tr~ ns1uitt cd satJ . .f1H:lorH~,- :- . A... c ·o1nplai111·s are nn'i . er~
~al y nuu·1 '" , ~nHl i't is -\ \YOiutlPr to u ·. tbc.l - the. p · .bUc lnrv · Sltb1ni.tted so
Ion:: to t·i1is t;~Jnllit io11 of ;r1·ila'i1~
,( i .. }>1.;rln.1p~ tht~ puhh · is un~ ia1brn tid :. _ n.- -·r~1n~- on tl1is "'Ul!;,i'"Ct ! - ·\.
i

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Ce•1·tain1,~tlu~y ini.)~
~

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ii!] -

.s=. :NJ: .-.~ IN' TlTE "lVE ~iEitN UNION O·F'F O • Dli R[NG THE ,~ TRIK1?..~

Q Ct rtn.hl1~r if tho 1•ubUc re]ics, on the neur~1)ap,ers, as a ijOHrc of in•
fo.rtuation, it 1nust h . misi'utor1uecl ;-A . \\ ,t JI,, of eourse, i.f tb ·, n w~p=ip •.r:-= 1nri ut tl1P lnd letin -·.· of 't 11 ·· ,,.,. es.t .- rn U l•ion l 0nl}J\tlllJ", a.-nd as. they
t 1o , t luj·Y prh t. 1al ~eh oo( ,s.. If" t 11 e pu bHc rt"ad those repo,r ts an,d belit.ve
1

h1 tht.1u1 th-~~ bl'- Ue, t~ tl1iu,g ~ tlia . a.rn

l'lOt- · rn ,.

Q,. ,~on at~ ll ""'inl hnt tlte <~0101non ~tate·rn~nt in tlr pre:Js is ha·t ti r.
1•

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·1

bus i u (""S~. of 'the ~orn :1,>:a n~~ is now t I an sa '.+t ::i.d a.". ·w ell .a s it e,eT wa . - \..
I 1nnh r.~tnntl t'hat 1,e11irt]y ·\,eU, si:rQ~. '.S"rnv is it' ·n ot po:--.jhle tbaf. yon ar-·. wron~·and tba.t they are right ·: A.. 1.'h l .\ 1ne ri enn l,)eo1 •le a 1 . . h i.i 11 g· tlp1ud ed a ntl d o .it',e d by th - "J"ellOrts of be ,,. t'1S tt 1.·11 {;·ui~Jll offi , ia'b;;.
Q,. - :-'Ol'l rn~tk that statt°"lOf"·u t . as 1 n1ult.r~ta 11d you,, f1·011l kn:o·,,·Jed~e:
de·.1i, ~d t:r~on1 ·ho~e insideoff_u~oOi·e·of'tb .li ,l·~ :. tern '._ ni-on (!-ompau\~ t .z;\.,, b··, t i~ cor1 "<: ct.
Q.. ' -11t~y n1 · 1nt'U,."duals l ho s ·u1,r,a.thize with you stri_kiu(r 011e11-ltor ."',
bnt w .b o ~onUunP to ·, ,~01·k to1· th~ cornJliit.n.:r . - _ • Ye~, s.i r,
(J. · lo yon ucHtrr , tl1•i1 - the i11for1uati n ·, i·I icb. hey gi re you jij. re]iubl1t~ :. ,- A,. I l1a,-e e, erJ i-eu · on. to thin -b _t ~t is r ,. 'liable~
Qt ll«iy it uot h" thnt tbt\V gi, out , ·olored tat,eruents "u or-d er tliat
th ·· ~tr1k , 1na!, be continuetl f ;··•· . ~ hey coultl ba,r. ., no iu.t -r, ·~t. in doing
so.; nour· "" ln1te,-er
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Q:t

·,,Th,,~uot .·

H: -.r _ ·. i1s a colli ·- 'ion of intere .•·ts, and the pt1b,Jic is receiv ..

iug di, er: e statements from tl.itt"e1•, ·nt source ~- If tile st.at ·m ut~ on
,nn · . id e a re tm·ue, tb ~ ,eon trary st•. -t-en1 en ts must b false, and It l i mporta ut-t b n.t the public should kr on~ wllicb are true and ·\v'l1.i ch aoo ta.ls :.,
.'S u, ,, ,,;e. wt~h you to gi.v ,e us as, defi.ni'tt, reasons as, yo 1 can for 1~0-u bt~lief that the iutormation which. you .rec.ei -.-'e is trus 'Worths\~
\i\:"'e]],.
we ar ._ . at. sti··d , bi,1. '. the information W'e reeei ,·e front i osi.de the We · teru ·un~on BuHdiug ·.s t.rutbfnl a.ncl relia.b le Were I to g-o .· nto details
\"el"y· m iuutel)' i·t is pos .·_ ible that so-n1e ·•ndivid oal m1gb:t be oom11ro ..
1

~-· t •

mised..

Q. I clon'' t a-~t J'""On to give n3me ·.· or ·t o oom1prou1ise any intlividual. I

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

onl,y want y·o I to state as clearl. , as JOU ca;n tbe reasoos v.·by· tbe· ·p ublic,
,s·b ool,d be·l ie,. . e J our statements ra.tbe.r ban. tl1: ~ st'ate-ments of a eon-trary ch.a1•a1cter ,. bieh are put. ftu■tb byth.-· eompa.ny~.A~ There ean be
no doo ht of t b .-· t1·n tb of th · inform.at '"ou w get.
, .,r1· .-r· Jl GIi
" ..
BI.'-"", 1ll
Q. Do y·o u k.no,v boVI~ n1u11y ope1~1tors who ea:n v.:ork: tbe Wbeat~hn1e.
syst ·· m ~lrE ~ no,, i1l th.· s . r,-i(~t of' t he ·, , est -rn Uuiou Co•ru1>;1uy ! ~-\..
Y(l's,, Rh~ ; I k I t,o,r .-· , . f~ry· iu(l i ,.id ua1 of the rn . ,
Q. Dow n ll'ny are there '. - .... T .I ere are th ee me- and six fem~.i'Jt..s . .
,Q. Do ,-on kr1ou bo""' 1nueh s.kiU a d exper~ nee 'tho,s e 11 rson~
)1,av,e . - i .. J tlo..
,Q - ·on b~,Ye. llel".suu3l l uowl~dg .· of it!-""·.... Yes, -i1·· pfrso1u1l lrnowl~
,ed._ge.. · ln l"P t 01·11,Y one nuu1 1u~re who can be clas~ili .- _ as a 11,r i t.t:r
1 •

•

-

!

•

1

filir· eX:J)tll"t

Tb ~ I"'< ~-t,

,f,

r - , - t'"f)'

~Dfli ·ior..

Q ~ Do yon k uo,r ho'" u nch ct1 Jl(lt~i ty t lJ ose ,s ix person$;, b ~-\"e to ,·1o
ork t)l 1 b n · :s,-8,. ehl ; ho,1~ lilll nch ,York tl1ey -ca 11 do in .ll -rln , . f-.A. Y'f..-J'~
sir· I ~no,\· it 1,~~rfecttr u-, ll.

Q

You. efiH stat :~tha _of JO r O\Y-H 11 ~rsoual k1uJ,,·1 "(i~e !,~ A _ I ..1,.:1.,
Q.. I-Io,,· 4l~tes t l1~i ~ e111,aci.tr ("'01.:1.1•nrP 1.\·ith '"·bat the ,llUblic d ~-u:u11t I. t •f
tb a 't sor '. of ,rork ·!-- .L\..~ Tber<. i .· no coin pn riison b ·.- · " tAen 1l1 e ··" o t b i.u ~ ~.
uo · ou I p,ari:--oll ~ 'll:lia t~ v er. 0 ur i nfo1·n1 ati ou from tll e i u sid.e ot" t Le otli1:e
is rcli•, t.l,ti and -. on~ct. ,,... a1-e su'tudied vrith 'thnt knoll.·] dg~, and ,,~o
k1101v th.a ·1 tlu:~ coud.ition · of affairs as reported by the '\\7 e··- ·t ern· U1~j(,1t
ant h 01ti t i,e·:,,, doe. 1 o t xi 8 t. and 't' ua the i r l...(~porls a 1 • u u tiL'U .~uul u.1 i Jeadlu g. Tu e D rot b '-"'l"li ootl b al-(~ bt'eu ~ 11 de·.. , ·clri ug to et1 u.~at t I Lt" l ~ n I,
li c u1.~ to th·1t · pno'"· ,ed ~" · thro-1' .b the p,1 e ~ .··, nil th1·1•ngh oth«!l" ag'.Cl r1,~.s,,
aud wlte'tltel" th rndJlic nrc H0\1'" ·under the j ;111n·u~sion tbat they hc.l,\·, ..
been tlelnd ·tl .a n,] ufl loi1.g er pay .attl~·11tiou to tl1e- l)~,1.·iotli,e,..11 tillse bnl~
]etins or r · ports ,of the ,,:- tstern Union oftlciils,. I c-anuot
Lut I ht -·
]i \~ ~ t:ha : tbe ,g enci-al hnJ)r~.s sion is .l lO'f\T that tlu~ u~·oil'·k i~ lo · ht ·i ,. •,.
done to th · ,. atistru~tiou of" be JJ u bhc 01· with du~ re~a1,1 to th ir i nh 1·,e sts, and i tile. . I do uot t11iuk. tbu I th~ ge'ueral 1n bhc pt ·,- the slio·Lt1i -~·t
clii,l--ileDct! no,1"' in th~ rt~l)OI'ts that- a~t- b .ing 1n:ornuigat d bJ t.lu~ ,,. . t.tstt~1·1l
I

1

1-

~~1.,.,.

1

1

Union JlfOJll .·.

-

-

B ,.,
' f the CHAinlrAN ·:
Q. Fl'orn 110,-r 1n .. n~~ <li:fterent wi l.ne -_ se'.
ltUlUJ'.,

or i.n(li.'\"i.dua1ls,. o · about 11.ow
do you rte · ix _- inforntat'ion from tht?: iuteri.o r of thb ,,.. ~ .. t~·1n

-n ion om ce !'- . .\..
. On l ui rso.u solel,v.
Q~ N:o,v n "l)" no , ·t hat one p~1-.'"0n h~ uu.d~r n mistaJi:e or lie nd ·.iu·f or1ned ·- .,A.;; I 't, i.i Impos~1ble~ Tb.i lt one p '" r on mu :st of necess,i ty· L~nu,v
th:· an- 01.·nt of ,,~01·t tliat i -, don , - ~aeb tlay,. a1ul b :· linows ttl 'O the
.. • o .. nt o·f ,,rork tl1at ~·.rt '", don 'b tor·· tbe strike took J)la - -. '\\' ha,-u
,e , · A-ry oon6(lence in 'thnt J>e~ '"Oll ..
Q. I an1 U·O ~,p eaking of ~tour dep;:u ·tnu:~ut of tlr officie alou.t, bu.t or
t-he ,rork gent ra I1y ~- A...
ell, the in fo:r1n at ion that eotut s to im s i rou l
th f .. of I1,P r J'li'l 1·ts of t IH.! o:ffit'e i: s .a~ r,t Iia bl,e ·us that \\~b ich Nla t,e s to oI r
depa .'tn1c11t~
Q~ ]Jo ,-on knon"" fton1 a I•out ho\1" 111auJ ~ ndi \.id ual.s that information
comt=~ ·.,- ··--• TJu~re i -. on·· i111·,)r1uant in our de1l(art111ent an,d one i.H the.
1

1

,-v

other.
Q. Is the infor1n;1tiou that. is r ·ceiYed fro m ·b oth those persons c:ou ~urrent; is it the ,u_e substautiall,y from eaeb souree !'- A. 1·_ is; nntl
~hose two J>ersous ha,Te no uJeans of commun1eatiou \Tith each othe ,
because tbl~Y ure unknown to oue another.
1

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

16,4

RELATIONS BETWEE .. LABOR A · .D CAPIT.A L

B .~ ilr. Pc-GD :
Q. Ha-d you a·ny com·ruunication .i1·· the l\re,siern. Union Com.pa.ny
befor - you earn · to thi . co1 nt1~3. :; did. tb y offe:r you .•.rny inducem,e n·_ tu
cont · ln~ru . -- A. }le,■Jl~iug of wi·s lf 1.• ·1 onan:r, I ·,,tr- b · state thc:it I
11 .. u.. ■d lU. ' ,ll -~l~e tu:, f, ~~ Wh·i.• tsto,u ·. ·ijs~·, :.1n1 ,va~ about to b :· dev .lop ·.· d
in ....·. n1t1:i ,a, autl tb111kiD:! t nt · . b.: 1no· pt-cts " ~ re 1nu b bett . r 11 ·re
than u't bonmr, I \l' :l'ote to ll1\ u1nston ·, null h ·. replied, . 'l,l iu.6. tht . . h ·
,you d l1t! ida<l to -~. e in - in N cw Yorlt, nntl \rou]tl gi,~t~ ,n~ ~ posi iou.
I cun e tti -~ -~\\. Yor nntl enllt"U on lI 1·. 1·111n1·'fo11t" aiHl l1r ~·aye u1e t b ·
infiu.--1nntion that I st.a t,e d h r ~ at th< h .~iu II i I!;! of n1·) c,~ideu •tli •.
(l. 111.u n1, you dul lu:l ,~t.· souitt eor1~~~1,o-ndcuce ,rith 'tlae offi<~1.·1h, of tbe
\\ ·,,·~tt 1·n l. uh u ,.,r It ::l'a ph Con1 l'"t u ,. ht·ft 1~,~you e~11 le to tb ~ ~ country 'A• , .. t'S+
Q. \.1u.l . -■ >U wt 1t ind nct·u 1.,,- ~l I u ~uu i. 'l ot e1 1:Jt!o),· n1 n · to ruu1e- here 1A.. ·, J''rt., s,, ~-· r.
Q~ rfh e- 'fl" c.l.t nu: ut ,r}Ji ch J" on re ,j 'e(l cl j te r . f )I 1iH g 'her ,~on hav·e
a·l rcnd, sh,t~l 'I- · ,. \"' ~-.s.. :-{ ·.. _\..11ot ]u..~:1· n1,e1uber O' o 1r .. t:·df ,va 'i.n.
H llV a 1i a ,hen t:u y,st eu a· ·, r·~1.~ fi.r,s t s po k.e n of he -~,., nnd be \; rote to the
\V .. ~tl n1 U uiou ottL·iaL, "'UHl ,ea.tu · ou frou1 Il.avau·i .i ntl ,va . e:u~,a ·eel
on fh .a1ue ~onditiou . as l 11..llu~
e ,,~a,· i.11 X~-rr York lr,fore I arri.\; erl.
· t~ \. as a nI10D u here withou r c iYin°· .an1 u1otu:s, a.ud ·n. , heu h.e a:11•·
I I roa cl Iet] l\l r.. · n rnston .· on t'be s I bj ect of r~"-!fi ,s,: in.J a 1it t 11 P re com pen se
h1r _11:s tim•·· -tr. Bum ..to e rem··lrk, d thnt ]1e had pJ\ ~n him er . dit for
ba, h g uu)nr:,y; us ·i f hi·· gentJ~mau vras going to ·. •·ork l 1.uontl~ in tbe
'tr,Tice of tbe \\""e . h.~rn t uion Co1n1~an3 ·. ~'ithout au},~recon1,p ·nse.
1

1

1

1

1

1{

1

1

•

Q. l\"'lut "~ag,e s d-· h · \\. . .hent~itone 01•era.tors r >l! ~i \ l=' in Enghind l-..A.. T'bt~ S12lb1ries are fuh · on. th otbe-r sidet 0( cour "" there · con ider. .
able tlitre-1 nc in. tli I ec~s ·y exiu.n ·r ,.. of 1:i, :inig betw,eeu Engla d
, tl this country, -o r a lea.st iH N.·w 1 ,ork~
GR.· AT BRIT · . J..,. ,.

.· l. Is li·, ~ng c.lieaper in

·o ghnul '- A.. lln ·1 c·b e. I> r.
Q,. l:s the footl. che~l.P 1 ., ,Jr i~ the, clot ·11u.g ch .ll,per., or .8l" c· th . 1~ents
cbe·1pe1, or are all these thiug~ , benfl r tber,e ·;_ . >r ,art!l heat) r.
_,i oo(l i8. cheap r, ·1 .n· g a.re much ·It a,1.1 r, and clotbin.~ is con·~id. rably
eh a,p r..
.
Q. J)o ·on . tat .·.. that as a fact in En~l utl ,ge . t aUy . A . Ye ., ·ir..
(J. '\'\:· 11a' is . be a~erage 1•al of ~, \Vbea.tston .• 01ter·\ .0 - there · -A~
Th · a,·era.:.; ~;;f.ul'.ieli ,o f e ,p~e ,vh :at tone operator raug . from 30 bil:J ings ainl ;J5,, hiJUngs to £2 t rling p I w .ek,, a.,t1d
man " .n su.b i ·t
on a "~ee·k t ,. e:x pend·i ture ot· fro-111 10 . hilling8 t ;0i 12' ·,hilJin.g.s; be can
li.ve co,mfortabl_y ou that amount of money . That L eqnail to something
r ':e ·, .:t50 ptr ,reek .
By the ·C HA Bl-l AN:
( , Do ~·ou. ·m,e an in London :-A. In London.
ere 1s not reaU.v
ninch d.itlereuce in be cost of Jh;ing in tbe different plaee , in ,G reat
B-ritain and ~r·e]antl, but in Scotland li,..iug is, a littlt, cheaper th.an. i.n
1

1

Engl · ntl.

By l\ r. CAL . :
Q.. n,o, I t1nd.e rstand you. to say· th ·t a m.an can _g et good, comfortable,

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

1.65

RELATIO · · BET\V.EEN LA.BOK A , D C PJT'AL.

1

food and lodgiog tber•~ for $2. 50 _a week t-A. Ye,s,. sir ·; he eau

l\"'8

comfortabl'v I could n·,·· · ,.· rl ·w ell on 12 shilUugs a, .eek..
Q. What would be the ub, i~tenoo tlu,t be would get fur that
amount -.A.. The · o mn rnon art.icle _ of diet ; beeftit .· ak.,, and , . ~g . t abl,e s,
and ·: uit.
Q. , Eee1'stea k. eYP.J")r llay f-A . , }J'ot e,. ery ,d,• J..
man cu baYt, 3
+

chang·C·- what-c,rer cba · n-c be pl,e a . es .
Q. Bu - be· cau ha,w
c wea e,..cry ,day · ~A~ Ob, .·,es; 4-. wau can ha·ve
m~at fiour tim.. s a da.:r
,. U he J.>lease·~..
Q. ·· or that ao1un11t of 1noue~r t-A. Yes,, sir..
Q:. \Vbat S(H1 of fm·nit can he have. •1-A, Tu: , frui't ti il't "s _ n-ed at
table gen .rally b ··"r :· in .A u1erica--all manner uf frnit a.nd ru-e,~er\,.e,s.
Q. T a au t] ,coffee al~o :.-A.. ..· es, s·i r ; tea and. oflee.
__
_
,Q.. Abont tl1 ~atue k.1ud of li,Tiug ,ba;t you cnn ge l in a. x ·ew York
h·o tel ·- ·A • .· e \, ,,-11 u I ·,,as on·"·re1tef dot;y,.'' tba.t ls ~oiog around
relie,·ing otb.er su1,erint, .nd . uts ·v rho w .-.r o oif t.~kin.g th ir bolida, s, I
haYe h, :-d uni ll oou ~ ll .. n 1..? sbilr ng ,. a week

B,y lJr., n, .ICH:
Qi Do l ou knovl .B"n, th i.n , . a bout the o ,. inar price·s in London
bote ·s · -A.· The., , src. difterient, aecoriling 'to the d1tfere11t b 10, els.
Q. Du · Jou think 12 shillings a. week is.a.b out the ,av. rag·•· . :-A. From
12 to l h ·1u11~s : week is, the tPr•e rage; but, then,. H,--i.u.-m,- in boardinu•
hoase .. is. conside.rably· elleaper than in hotels.
B1 the c- -,. R '- rI .·. :
Q. o--, tbe v.~bole, l'·hicb. i ·b etter off, the En.glish. 011erato (i ,e ludin,g
th_• Soote~_and the_Irish o,perJi.tor), npon the pav w·hi.c.h h·~• recei\1' ..
.here be u·,;es" or- tbe Ar.n ri,·ian op rator, DJ.)On. what b roo -i, e.s, 'trbere
he Ii Tes : A.. I t'h iuk., .after aU, that the English open t.or.s ba,--e tbs
best. of it~
Q. ·. he best of :i t as .oom.J)ared with the American operator .,, or as
CO' pared with ·. -he I1·i · 'h ant Scotch - ··.· . ··. s com.p ared with I be Aw. ri,. .
1

•

1

can o·perators.
Q. O f eou.r se in coml'ng here 3,on e·"'pected to b ·. 't,ter yonr couditiou.
·> o ., · , _at wonld ha'\"e been ,.. sati ·.· facto.ry ,com.peu ation to you ht~:r e, ,
A.. From ,v hat was told us by llr-1 Humsloi0e we inf-e1-re1l tha:t our sala.ri,e s would no , be le.Ms than $90 a. month, and tha . c ·m ight rt!oe·i , - hi
1

t·ime ,-:100 a mout

1.

B,:
·( ·r .-. .· ALL:
- .
Q~ \Vlla_t 1,s. the igbest rJte of salars pai,d iu Eugl.aud to skilled
operators T- · ·.,. The big.best rate u:aid raug•,es fl 001 .£ 8 to £10 sterling
11er month fo,r practical operators.
B3 tlae. CRAJRMAN ..
Q . Fort,y to fift.y d.o Hars a ·m.o ntb -A. .-·. little le·1SS t.h.an bat~
B)) )Ir. CALL.:
Q.. Then, as you estim:a te it,. the ldg es·t 111te of . !alary in E u.glaud
tor au operator is _fro1n $,40 to ,ao, or thereabout ', A11 -Yes, sir~. but,
the cost of Ii,~i u.~ i .. so (1 iffereu t fro1n tbe cost of li,ing I.Je,r e-i t ,(.,1>st,s ,s o
much wore to live bere,. that I beli-et"e on the: whole the B.ri' ish oper.atori- have the best of it.
B, :1;1 r PUGH :
Q~ The J•nr "ba~1.og pow·,e r of the paj in En1,g·Jil1nd, Sco,t laod, aud re1.aiid is g· _ater., l~ou. th.ink, thuu i is here -A. ¥ ,e ·+
.

1

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

166

RELATI.O·NS BETWEEN' LABOB. AND CAPITAL.

By the Cll.Al.RM..AN ~
Q§. et t]ieli"' buy most. of what the:5· eat, or a larg,e portion of it at
least, f.it~om tbi s c;oLin try. How.,,th ..u ,, can it. be chenper t'her t - IlR here ,-.A .. l\Iauy th. '"ng:- are cb -a,per the •e thau here.
(J.. ll n.t tllLk !· the 8t tl11 ·e,R,,breatl .~u d n ,f at ;: _.1 _ t 11 ey cheaiper than here!
- · .. · s., sil ; \\ e ulo not get oar bt~a d tb ·i·e fi~om Aiu,e r ea .
(l . Yuu h~ -- a 1•ortio11 of the graiutbat :i t is,mu.d.e n~om,. d.o Jon not !
' ..A~ y l".S ..
fl.. , \ ha· d.o you h·11, e o 1u15 fol'" a loaf of breiul ?- ~l 'You will gl~t
a l0;1f ,~,if t IIe est br~.nd ftJir six ·pe 11 ee.
f~" \'\'" but doe~ t b a.t lou f '1~ei ~ Il ·, :_,A... Four and "' · h ti lf' pound·- ~
(Ji \l lt.at \\"'oul<l ·1~ou b:a ·ve to JJay for such ~. ,oaf" b _1-e .,:_ , ' IJa,t I
c~nuot ~ay~ I au1 not ~- ·uHtrrit,(l 1uau atul do no,t .k c ~1, house... The
JJtic·e s th~,t I SJ.l _i~1k i1bout ,1
bon.nliug . lJous . 1>rices~ T'heJ" ;tre tbe
pri ·• -, ofll~h ~clt f ha,re IUO:stkuo,l·ludg . J kno,v that an oper1,tor in. the
oltl. eouu h ·y ia 11 Ii ,-e co mu t'o1·tabl) on fi·o n1 10 to 12 sh il liu;.zs n '\Veek..
Q, A 1 d l1e,ro bonr,tl t..~st s on an a,~. ra6 e $5, 50 a ·we .;k ,. I un.derst-a.Uttl !

fin

1~

- ~\.

llv th · · 11IIA]l[M.A-.N:
(~. Ua n J·ou. ma kl' ons.· stat e,n1 en·-_ a · to 'th · rt··-1 at.· ye co - ·t -of rents be·re
iUJd :i n the uhl (~ou-ut1·, ~ f-.A . Do YOU 1neau rent~ pai,l b,~· t(!uants ,,( ~ Yes.. Ho1r do t h,e t l g1 a1~L. 0}1 r tlfors h·\> there g D . ra1l·, ; d,o
tbev liv,e i1 a1u1rt1n 1-t- ;, a~ they doh _·re -A. 'T hey live in ulmos . ·t he
~amne ·1hsh.iou ·- u·t t he.y do lu;! re-iu boar<Hng-ll:ous.e s g,(!.ne1~.~1.n}~·.•
,Q. : on .·13. that re·11ts are n1nch 1 .. he1~ thnn bei'e .-A.. 1.tes.
.(l.. lu ab n 1t ~-lta p1-o poi·t ion :._ . -~.. Do you nit.a ill b ou se r ·u t as paid.
~

1

paid b · an opt~rator who ~st lod_
ger ~Q~ llou~ . 1.-eu . 11aitl by· a. te1 an -E -, · • \\ ·. I , a w,01·kingn1an ·. · have
~, , . .1r,- t~on1for1able 11,otuu~,l t!Ontainh1,g t\\"O roon1s and a kitcb :n and aJ.l
t·uu,.~eui 111~eij, for half (, , ·ro·" -1·_ 11er ,,·eck-2 tShilU1P A and o_peneie.
lJ·. One hund1· -(1 an,,l tw.. Ht.l ~t] .· ,e -.bilUu.gs a .1-,e.a1· Y-A . les; tha., is
tln general. run of" re,.11 ·i fcir ,l~ork.ingmen's l1.ou~es-f11ln1 11a]f a •Cro1'?H

1i:~r

~ll

tt.uant, or :roon1

r ' ut

sb n in ..:T.s lt lfeek~.
Q~ Do yo 1 1nelln1 ,,1:01·k iHgmeu of a.JI a.,-01~ ioHs, or t~1n1mon 1abor~1·s 9- ....-l.t LQ\borers ea-n. reut a house ,0011 i -~-i.ng of" a I oom and. ki teb.eu.,
w·ith \Yater.,. Jor- I ~hiHiug and 6 J>enc to .2 .hiUi.u.g ,. 11e1" week.
C~t J)o I undeJ· . ta.1Hl yo11r sta.1 en1, nt to be confiue,l to Loudou or to
tl1~ cj1ties ur1d po1ndou tdH ~e ~ geu~ra-ls :iu Great ,iitn.in - · I am
~Jtt~ak·i ng of th~ citi s ~eu . .raU,y th1011gbont the ·t wo· i8laudth
f~ ~ Do you. 'know· au,~tlrin,a-r o:f tl1e £·1.ct _ tonchh.lb the condition of faem
tory operators. iu 11.g l.aud, of tbe 1e.uts tb y pay a1.ul what •oou1pen- ation the .. 1· . eei1 •~ .'..- · .. I · ~nnuot 1s peuk , .. e1• . ~ n•ccui~a'te]y •OU tba.t Sl bject..
I ani nor. pr,e pared. '\ 'f i ti I s . ,t h i11tormat iou
t-t,

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- c·u .
Bl. 11- · Lnn·1
.

l■

., .

. . ... • . . .

■

country •bnt ., o,n Sh·]: get
frou1 ~4Ui to 50 a n1on b 1n Enffland~ the be~ t ,e s ert t .leg~ph o-per
atu.1·.s ..- A. TbeJ get from $80 to $05 a. 1non.tll.
Q. Abo it clonble ·w hat the_y r eefy·,e in E,ngla-nd. - , ~ : es, ir ..
Q, Bu· · till ,on think tha·. the En,g·Ji, h operators ..oo better ,o ff f A .. y ·e s; on the ·w hole I 'be-liev,e they· are . .
Q.. ~-ou -·a5 that tile cost of Jiving is much .c reat ·r here than in Eng
1~111d :- A~ Yes~, sir.
Q . . .\ocording to your o n statenient 'the ,cotit of living lr re is about
It• a wont b 1oor,e than i:n Eng a. d,. and t · e ditfere:nce. in 1•ay is. fflom
1
(}.

\\

bat p.11. do 'the same . 1.: ,s.s , .e in this

1

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161

RE1LATIO · S, BETWE --1N LABOR AND CAPITA!;.

·1 40 to $50 a moo th in favor of t11 - 01i .. ·rotor here.. Now \l":be, e. ig the
otbe·r $30 or .9 _O a monfh w ich tbe operator ree .,iv ,· h · re a·b sorbed,
80 u.~ to mak ·. the life of an ~ngU ·b 01ierator· 1n, r,. d -.· ·ir~1ule tb~1n the
life of an 011erato1~ Ir re ·. -..\ . "\\'" ell, f ·c · xpenses. ..,f th l , Aw ri.ean operator are '· O u1:n eb in exce~ ·~.
Q. Bu· you ha\~,c st]h,,d tlt .·x,oo·~·· at •Jthont . ·10' a u1.011tl1 .; no·,,.~ ·trh '. t
o hl~r difterc 1c~ ~tre tlt _..re to absorb th,e c U1ei-ence in 1,a.y ,,·bi ~b the
.t\.1nt~ric.:n1 op~ra 01· receives ! - ,\_. _ Tl1c tliff: 1·e1u.:·., h e ·"]J~n ~4!s i:s. much
JLON t u1 u ~ 10 n 1non tl1~
Qli )"r.H1 ,tat,·ti .a ,,~11He ago tla:t in En"1a1 tl tJ,1 . ~o t of h,·1:ut,. wa~1 hon t , .
eJ.50 ~l. \\ et: Ii,, a ud. tba t t l1 e 1!10 ·t Ir 1~ wa. .' 5,iiO ; ,,.]n1 t ar ' t b
ulen1cn s tbat n~uke the <!-Ost of lil""in_:w _· much grea'ter-lie1·e tl1au there . '
- ..:\... Th~re. i.s al~o cl . thi11g to b .. con· ·id ~r.eu, which ·i s wuch deaJ¥r
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l~ t:- tel...
Qi Ilo . mneb }l r mon.,._b is tb.e lliife1·euc · in. the cost of ,clot J1h.1,g '...........
. .'.\... I a n1 uo t s..u1·e ab •n1. · th a. t, but I k DOW' froru DIJ o\\:n e:x.11 ri,euc~ t bat
the1 e ·is a Hl; 1r ~ ed d He ,.·11ce1 T'heu 3·ou m ll8t take the ti iffe ru-ice or
hon . - 1 · ,.ut into eon~id ra Uou .
(.J·. .io,v uiucb 1s tl1c difle1~uce 1n · hat ~ A. '\l\: ell, I a,n not ·ve·rJi· .ore
◄ jif t b~. a tu on n t at 1,re.s · n t, bu . th . di fte1·enc i
th. - pric of c lotbb1;g
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a1ul 1n rtnts a,e -.· -F;'tltr is £onsid 1'ia.bh~:~
. Bu ·there u, uo qn ~tioo.ot ren.t iu. th • case of a -a,n who boards t'..A.. N·o, sir; uot. "··h en be li,~es in a ·boarding-h.ouse..
ADVA ..· T AGES 0F EiiGLISll' 0PE '·. ' T'O RS.
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Q. - •nt still ,~,o ur ··mpr,essio1 ·1 tba~ th · _orid:tion o,f the ope'l~ator ·i s
111ot improveti bv co111·i11,£ :he·1e .: - .·· .. J;.-rO; I d:o not say 1t ma~·· not be
in1·prov,etl by con1in.11 to this couutr1·, bu' i is not no1)ro·,~ed b.)~ jo,i ning
tl t . l\7 est~1·n 1. Hion Compan~.,_ Then fbere are otbe:r 'hiug,s to be tak. ti.
into uonmd~'. ratiun aM, to the coudition of th Bl-ltL .·h O:PeF.ator~., O:1~ --ra,.
ror~ there hn,.e ~1 -tJu~e ,reek·· ' or a moutb'·~,hol:ida.J , r ud dnriug tba·t
)H:·1·iod tbuit ~ahu:ir~, .ruu ou lNi if they ·w ore occu11i d. 'Tb re is uo tinch
Jtti.\ iJe:r · ht·re. If an op mt'o1· takes , holiday b~1·e,, it r.uns't be a ; hi~
...,,, \~n co~t. ':l''ht-n, afl:il iu, i u ngbu1d opc,r·1turs '\ \"OI k hut our. Suuda~•f in
. ,~,e,rv fi,re; t]urt i , th~ avera,ge. Also~ ,,.- bt'n a11 01tt.. 1·ator tl1 cre i~ 8iek.
}1t- l"l: C .i,Tes .lnilf )Ja~r, aud ~
r be. ha ~ ht't~ll a (t,t 'rt m1i11 Jte!l~iutl UI 1h ser\·ioo
bP r, · c .'i \1'es ai lH!..ll "iuu ; .IH~is s.n1•t~1·a11HU·1t~d . it· l1i 8 i►t! c-01·(1 11~1~~ Ut'" «!l1t ~ood
,,~l!ile he b ·.lS bt:eu in th ..' .s ~r,ricr, lie IIIUJ{ :l'l!:th-e OH full snlu1·,,- Ol" at-leas.,
~t half tbe sa1'. ai-y tba.t .he it1 tlra,,·iug ut t ,. e tiwe ·o f his .1.·tM-tit- ·. itnt:nt~
n·'l~the :~ H t\IR:l[AN :·
Q. Tbat is ili -a· t' of disabilit.Y fr,01n oI,1. a·. -· - ·A . Y·.s, s.ir•.
(), Ho,v· 18 it duirint!' tem1101·ary 1nc'l~.ness or di ·.ability ··- · During
.si£.k ne ss 3,·01 a re a Uo,1 ·etl. half pal·.
Q For how loug a tiine ":- oultl a man be keJ)t i11 the emp10,. of the
<:ou1pauy or tL Go,:- .~1·11111,eu't (.or whoe,~el' ·t lte t,u11lloy r i8), a.ad hi,s pa.r
go, on,, v.l1il . 11, was ,li.salJlcd bv iHne s ·. .. . . - 11 01~er~1tot cau be a/bseut
and.er n1ed.icaJ t1•,tia.t1u cut tor 1,,·t~I v · · 1nou'th · ,, a.nd rect 1,~·:· bal-f l1is salary
a11 th at ti m, • If there i ~ no proha bi l itx or Hk el ih ood of la ·i :.. .1~eco,-ery· be
is t lt ~n su pera.n u ua. t"d on a c~ttlli II n]lo ,v~1nc ...
Q.. A'fter hc.n1 ·m~u1r yea rs' ser\dce f'- A. I a1.o bil k:iug a _out ea.ses, of
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illness.

(~. W 'o llld a .m an ·who 1Jad .Just en tere(l the .·e:rv.ice. and ha(l been
t~,k.•:n sick aud become disabled, be placed on tbe .supe.rannua -e:tl H t t A . OJJ,, no.
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

168

REL,ATIONS BE,T\VEE..:·· LABOR A'ND CAPlTAr.....

Q. Tb.en how 1,ong a. ti:me mnst ·1le 'baY,e rendered 1
serv1ce before b.e·
would ·b e entitl ·fl to ti ·..• t 1•ri,.il•e,g e •,- ,·.. 1,~or, -t leais three. years.
Q. Have :·ou kuo,,]edg-e of au5 instance of' .b e ki.ntl. you speak off. . Ye~, ..:ir.
Q.. Is tb( 1 f 1 connnon rule - ·. • :c s, . ir.
Q. J . i ~ ·_·t:a.tutory· role or . regulation o-f f e (i,ep,a r .1n· nt ~-·A •. It
is a re~nlatiou of th . d ]U rt1n ent.
OWNE:RSHlP AND CO~TROL OF BRITISH TELE . - ltAP __ L _:N jS.

Q .. \1:ho i~ th . en1plo:rer ,o f the. telegraph .· ts in E ,Jht.nd .-Al T.be

ov-ern,n : nt
Q~. Is it t.ntirel:.r a Government servi.ce -~ . . • ,r, · iril
·• .•A.1•,· there u>, r~1-~•ate t I' .~ra-ph ,e o npaui" , in England ~i--A .. N,o,
sir; the Go'f'ern1nent cont-rols an teleft-1•ap.bi~, bu~ine!'tS, in G·r eat B.rita"in.
of :r- l "iOmn1• rcial tbttnre. entirel:♦." , aud ·railroacl t .1egra1~bic scr,ice. pal"tially~
Q~ l · hat .i . tht. ,e xac _ divi ,ion of tb.e. te'l raraph erviee b tw· en the
Go1-retnmeut · ·n d tla,e con11panie,s . I .a.m not, r.v ce tnin. '-' -= to tie
nature of tli -; coutr.~ct b : ·: ,, een t 1JJ -· Gov· _rnineut anti the ra il·roa.d au t hO.ll\..
iti s; b, it ,,1 be1·e it i ncce-_ ·1r,T tbe railroad Unes. are utilized fOl"' onHuar.y· comn11er(ial purpo e ., a.ntl tb:e railroads t.nins.nli coun11er(":ial wor
from on ~· point to uno - her,, but ,o n wh - t co1 ditions tlaey do .i 1 I .a m not
1•repaml to · ·a eat tbe Jll. · eut t1m
Q~ Are tl,,e r .· tw,o, ~y-te1:u s of lines, tH1e o" ned hJ- .- be Go-l,~rnm •·..nt,aud
the otli-r by he r.adroad co-01pauies. -A. Tl1 :, ri~b · of v..Ta1r on railro~r1d
lines belongs to, fh~ radroad -companies, fhemsel,.· es; bu.: he wir,es,. if I
mistnke not, are Gov,e rnment pr-operty. A11 tel .! rrapb ·wireg er,e cted iu
Great Britai.n b Jong to the Governnient, anti are u1uler 1 e control of
tbe •ostal telegraph department. .
Q. By the p.ostal telegra.pb department you mean the eo ·· merci1l
•l- ,J;'~
nc.-ir·t wsnt· SU'P l'lO'• QiD, '·
Y· -AC' DlJr
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Q. Ho .· is it as to the rates of trau· n1i- ~· ion; what does it cosl a man
to ava.i1 bin self o: "the te.le_g rapb serv·c in En.g land .'-A~ ny 11erson
can send ~.tel gl'am fro1n or to auy part of Gre·rt Br.i -aiu a1nl Ireland
at t e rat of twenty words fur - ~bHH11 a-·; ea. ·h addi." ioual ti ,·i' vrords cos·t
3 pe,nee-6 •c ent
here is no ditlereuce matl . ,a,·. to di , · auce; io1i
1 sbilliu ~· you can s,e,u ('I a me8S.A ge 01 er four b Utl()f\ (] miles,. ~11Hl it
takers the s:ame amon11t to se•u d a n1 · ssa .11e a tou 11Ie of oli les,. 'l here 1.s a.,
g·e-nera1 tariff o.f tw,e-nt,J word· , for a · hil Ii n g aud each fi ,.e a(lditio:11 al
words 3 penfje, th acld~ss not 'b eing inch.ul d., uor the sian.a ture . .
Q. The san1e Huttter is pai,d for them as ber -- tbe me._· •age its .If'
oul,y : A. Yes, air. I beg I aT · ·t o · .t a't tbat tbe·r e is it difter,e oce
•
ween the laour.s of labo- in G1-eat Britain and I riela.nd t!11ul tboge ber0•
.E,i gbt ho _rs ,con.~ti .ut_ a day ·-,. work .and. ·~e\~en. bonrs a ui.ght'rs ,vor . .
t.bere. Her.e nine an.d a half bou1 s ig, the day's wt)rk ond seven and a
half t.he n1.g'ht' . or·t
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·. EW YORK, Attgust 14,, l883~

J ,o HN B, TALTAWALL sworn aud examined..

By 1\:lr.. GEOR·G E:
Questi.on. What is 1~onr age ,._A Uti\T1~1~~ Tw- enty-•=se~en..

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

lti9

RELAT.Io·~S BET,VEEN LA'ROR A~ D CA_PIT,.- L..

Q .. What i.s your orco1la.tion. aud. where do yon 1~eside l -.i\.. I um a
tE:le gra p b OJJ~rator, a. ·utl al "',o cdibrn•· of th · T- ·1,e gra phens' .i\.dxo ··ate ;. I re ..
f!lide iu .Brook1:rn~
Q .. Do you 'b e_o1 g to t e T . legr.a.pbers' · 'r otberhoud :. - J· .. ,I rlo.
Q.. ,¥ere yon ,oue ,o f the Nti·iktrs on tbe l!lfh J nlJi.. .-A,., 1 \1~, "', uot,
~ir~ I am not · uJplotT,ed b,,., the ,ve,s tern Union;. I um in the eu111~lo), of
the ·.· e,,~ Yoi·k · ·,s soeintetl Pre s,. thongb
nn1 not doi.ug rny reJul,.:tr
work no·,v ; 1 lnt,T(~ ou i)t- substitut~. Du.1·in,b th ·. t :ike, I aH1 de,:-otiu~ all
my ti1ne tu tbe 1:,.a1-.p1•.
·
Q.. Tb n ~~()n l.1 ·1., :-- .· · not · .truel( an ti h axe 1 o • been di ~charj!ed 1 but · rou
are reJlr-e~e.ir ed in ,·our ,emplo)·H1
nt by a b . i1ui , iiS that it ..-A...
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Q.. ~nd -~our I ·}a11ou . ,v1.tb you1~ enlployer are uutlistur'b tl ~'- ~\.
Undistu1·hed~.
Q~ \'le ba,Te l . eu. iu,q u i1·ing· about b _ ean.se_. of the st1 i'k .- a.uml ·1bout
tb ·. 1·c ·1 ati.oucs x·i :ing het,,~·e eu the t~1e:g rapo op(;-rdto-r ·. ,a utl th - \i\re=ste1 n
U,nion T'el ·grarth •· :on11,any,, ,vh!ch em1,loys then.1-•·11 ir oou1]1e.n~atio11,
't b J,1r ho n·s o, la. or i ucl nd. inf! 11i ~b't .·.or]~ .,11.n (l Sn u<la \'" w·ork., th. n dequa cv of the Jlia~ wh1cb tbtt.3, recei,. ,e to 1
SU.Pl>O'rt ~1no:le ti-1e11. un,I 1nnrricd
m u comfoi-tabl~r, tht.., ir geHeral couditio1 autl mod of Hl'e, th · pi·opo.-r tiou of m~: r :ri d tu u ~1ntl of' ~in,gl@ . tJ · · n amo, 1g t ,e: · ,, ar d, whethe hel'e
i · a.n ~thin_
g in the btr_~i ess which operates a,s a 1~ s t1-aiu on 'marri~1ge.
on mal; go on aucl gti"e us, in your o . n wa,.-, any in 'ormat.iou. which
)10U ·ma-) possess, on tbes-t! st11:?jec s,, or in. relut~on to the tri'k.e gene1·1

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aHy .
nAUSES OF THE s - RIKE~

A. W .ll, ID) npinion of tbe strike anti its ca11' _· . is simib1r to th 01un
"ons ot the otb . r gentlemen wh.o ·h a\'"'e preeed ti 1nc- -nb t~•ntiall); th ·
same, I m.i,g ht ~ax Of' cou'r · e the di'reet can,'"e of the _t:rik,e was, the .r,efosal of the West .· rn Onion Company toren edy certain gri,e van ·- s com1

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I do uot kno,v tl at 1 cu n gi · e th -· eomm1ittee any more ini4Jrmo.tion ou the questioa1' -, fbat yon ha,·e· su_ggeste,l
tt1an. has 'be~.n. a,iT"en a1rea-d y b,J t.he ,o ther gentleme:n ho l,a,e test-i'fied.
I have read in th . n1orning papers th. .· te :timon:r that hc:1~ been producetl
before the committee, and I . u bstantbit · e .·ery ,voi•,d or it~ It. ":as men t~oned here ye\ te-rtlay th:: t _i.nce t-be it1trod -ction of the duple antl
qnad ru.1,Iex sy •.· :t ~ ms tl1c ,com1Jany ba8 not increasetl s·:d rries, but, on be
,contrary, dimi n isbed. tben11 I ru ight, en1arge some-wit t u11ou tba.t point
if yon .·o ,desir,. I wrote. an ,a r .icl.e ,,.,.·h ich was pnblished in tbe ,J ul)t
·ssue of the Ad,ocr.t , a pap~r which uirculnt s.lurgely n-n1 nJ the. operators, bnt wh.icb p obablJ' bus no Jet reached the pul Uc;. Yo11 wish
to know, of cour. • ,, a11 n bout tli -,s e syst . n1 '. of · el gr:a llhhi.:n-, hec _u·,_. ,th ~.,.
ba,r-e , .·.ally reducetl tbe. exi.,en~es. of the compa.uv ·i n -rhe estnbli,sbme.n,·,
and maintenance of Hne,s, and a - he ~a,me tinl_ th. ir onth1-1 iu sal rile.slllained. of' br the operator~..

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has been r-etl ue,ed..

I will re-ad fro-m th i .· artil!l ·· :

TELEGRAPH TA ' F" DEFO:IU.~ Tflf.,: DUP'.L:F.X A~D Ql.·ADJU!.P LEX SY -TE:~US \\"ERE USE)

,m

Pte·vicrn.1s to th0 ~lo-pt •·on of-tb~ u d. 1.plex '-' and. , q1r 001''11:ple·~ ,, ~y~t RI' oft· le~rn)lfay
by the W,es - m :u·•,on T~ ec;n-8\!l.b Coropt1'ny tb., ta:r ff to · b · fol owJo.g_ point fur 1. n.
-ordD. ,(H:' ~ s. 'n a .: . ; _·m. Jl,,_'al n~ is~ ot .-~ i ,c ~i,c a •!l,
e~nts I] ~1n.t Louis, $,1 ; G.alve.s.ton and N e w Orl.,eans., •l .7 u ; an~l C 10 c. ona. t.t a.utl Cle v,e] and, 7 . c . ntg .a •·h~ Whe'l~
t e , , 'l ti 11 ·. ·· Jf, •,'teu~s. o.f ·t rn n n it t'h g d "siiatcbes bad h ,e,orne ~.n .assn ed sue~-e t1. &.
W,e.ste:rn 0iion 1"'P1 grap'b Company Jouclly 11,r oel ai.med thn e·b eap ·t e-legr.a ph rnf.e5
would speedUy froUo·\v·.. A .,1a.n •e ,;d, the f:o lo ,ri11g fiu:t , will show tbe e -tent o.f' t 0$8
hnT~ntions a.ntl bo,v tb.e ,vc I m nion "f' l _g _r:• · Oorup uy has fnHilled i.t s pn)mise,
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'LABOR AND C.APITAL

Tu 1~~.:t tbe ~,o,:k of the ,ve t .. 111 lJniou T l rrrirph eon p:n r was s.t:i e,d · t .J 1,000f~ ··; •·• :m1r d UJ,l o t'lh~•. • t · ntP . ·t. nt.1.n OO."i ~ 1ht'. l• •n d., hit d l een pa ifl. 'J'l 1e· · t'h~ ,: watflring "'
] · • f . • -~~. w11. , ft'j• .-l y r,e rn: r etl to. a1 . l i u 1~ ,O the
t ·, , k \Y.a , l ,!f! cl~1-r ed to be a Uttle ov~r·
,6-40,{ lJ J,.o,It).,
\ t a 1J J 11 t 1 hut- t.im . T lHUll ii ~- 1: u~ H : in. COllU,i ·tion ,:d th otb ~r-·,e leetri,e iao:_~
_' mi i •·ol,·t'l\d i 'h, pn 11,m u of -~- . fllil•b nph•x : 't ·i~Lt!ra.pliy. The )l"l.t Dl ,o f d1is valnnbl,til!
~n:-l(' f \"•i 'f"\ \'I;. mi nillU' .br•l ' l hv H1 . l '\ .· :-.tiil f ' I tad:nu I .•],. rr1 ~•h
CoUIJ►an · for. it i.· stated.,
IE.
·,Ju ·JU· J, :nu1 l1 v t bi. :n 1rl o tlwr- pn r _ 1:1.. e~ U a., (·ou!.pa1n ,e·:.l uu1 'in to I o P · .10.n ,o f tb ~
•f" xi · i u :-: i.ye n ::.lt1': ot l ·or b 1b ~ Ii," d n I~l •·x '' and "' •·'•-l u:u.h:u pl ··•x " inveu tr ~ou;~.
A J 11~rentJ.y
tlJ•· ]t.nbliu tlo . nu~ r il Lz .~th , .iu )s.ti~ lJlc valmiu uf tltt~c. iuventi~n - ; tb ·r cib,r e a de~~.- miJ1ti 1 n. ut' tlw:m ,vii uo Joul ,t h .. n,1,1 Fl!'dah~iL
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Il the CtlAlR:ltA:S :.
0 . 'l\·'l1cn ,,~e-r- thoije J)ateut . obbllined - .A,. Siu ·e 1870--a-boui 1.$74,
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A I don't k no·\\· exactI~ · w·'hen

pat ut.~ ,v · l"e i ,~su d .
.·~~ Do tl1e co -1.>uuy own th ~ s·tme. p:1.te11 ts a b1·oad -A. I tlo not
kno,l v.·hetht .r they do or o .. I think tb ·. · \Vestern Union . ~elt~graph
~·on11n1n, i.s, tb -· only <!on11uuJy iu tbe Unit ·d S-tate·Si tbat j : at. t•resent
·u ·iu."' th 1 •q unurup,l ex..· ysttNH.,
Q.F. T'but , 3~,ste1n, I su:p11ose is 'l1ot nsct1 abroad !-A That is used
~,1.ln·o~1d.. I atn inform ed. 'tlur . tbe tlurdex s·vstcm " as ~u, ea ted in 1873,.
a1 ,I t:he quad1·u1>Ie.~ a bont •. _:ve~.ir · ater.
To _t:ro ou with t·he desc,·i ption of these ss =st. rn.s !
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·r ~t! h uieally, tc

dtq1h--:x. .o wire ·•, .. to do:u.ble ·i t ,, enr:11 ·ity, .:1nfl 'tu quadrn,~l,e:s: .a wi:111;,<i'.9
1, i ·11 •_·•·a c i , · ·L11a ii 1r 10-~r~ J.cl . Ii · ·"~t'l"','f tc l,t!'~ra.[ .h ofii .. - of proa:uin nee in tbe 1J.oi.t .d
~r·:~1·1•:i ·Urero n..r , set _' of ~.1:iu ~-~l i ,l.: trnro · ·t , ,t h _·~1lt~x aoc~ ,q ua,d nr plt x i.n. :tn ·meut .. If
t ') H•~iDPSS b t ,wcen t·. ,-;o 1 rfur. d< e.· not : x , e.t-d stx Ju ndred Ul ~ ~i)P,es per day, a
i.iu~J.e i n· ·rt riune u ;:nu ' \'\d.f\i; wiU he nni: ' ll"U t, for its tn1ns:m~. "0nm ] f it. i o,v err eix
'huiu. ~ed !Jut, do :s ·H nt ,exc~cr_ t"'--eh,e lu~ntlt\··d u essa~e~ I r ,.Ja.J a doplex •. ,o f in·t. .n1r1 ·nt . ,, r~a · tl in ~-01.111 .ct iou ,1·ith 411 , ·iu :r-[ ~ v.;· ~£-~,. ,,. ill do · h e ·w o l.- . N. eessar'"ly 'his.
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,t •~t·i1nate is lm._ed upon tlie •i ' ~t ··rn.~ , l en,,rth of <lw~:·1u11t,ehe ,. wh·, his twenty wonl: ea-cb,.
li'r b• rn ;,ire m ;,11 or .ii n:,l't an . e 1 ·i11) Wi"!V· "'r ,, w b e:r . th'." . .a v,er-:ai.!f.1 i . grea ]y in , :r , a .ed, aa ·be1 \\" . · ·D, }{,e~ ·York an(l Bo~U.lu, Xo,v Yotk .aud Pb.ila.d t'lphia, and other ·1toiut., the-di })i Lt ·•he,Mb .·. i·t!IJg 11d1u,1i pull)~ ·hi11lr · s-t~ . •k ,q uo ta tion •
.h ·u. the :n o m her of ,li. pa teb~s e:xt t•t~ 1 tift,eee huut .r ed ]1 er cl,ay.,, m, it tlo s be. ~ e ·•n t b , pr.in ·w·p al ciU - io ·t his ,c,n1utry, .a
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of iu~trou1,e nt$ i .. ph1.c,ed..wn tom · ape. ion witli a wire .

. U.v .•~11 t .. capa.c _t.v -of the wire is -q ~,adf1J p~ed . [o of er ·wo,~ s j f n ,:wire rnuni ug
j nnn :N e,,r Yo.rk
n?~,h}ll E' - : h ·r·;
IX h l~.~ -d HJ "~_ ~ll:,rf'S per d 3\ u,T th , add i -ion o,f
· · .· · o-f q ·• acl.rnp](!x; in trt. nt~nt · th, _ • 11r.m wli1 is •c ilpable of txeban , ing 'twen.1_ J.... four
l1nud~fl 'l!Qe'SHl!g t ('r ila~. Tt{· uQ~J-7 ,: ·t ld1tio al · · ·J . n ·.· , ar. the es..tr~ elp·, 'the in
'!· , ,.-a~e,of bat-re ry, a1H! t ht'- eo ·t o'f tht i u · r i r.3:t . ' I n:ulru p Iex instrnnu~
n ta whh:la, are ueeea-bi t ;V t o s ptura t. ~ "t ..it her f>U l of th . "'rir,• th
t\\fO on. tgoi.u tr- an I. t b . t WO iuco '. ing
e ;r-en ta of cl,cctrici tJ·. ] n , ·ie,v •f t'he- •e. ftLets l t mn~t 1"e o,vious tn all elear-miu·detl.
11t•·f ·cuu1 ·Uu1;t wh ·n ih .
f ,l ,rn l }nij;-.n T,e lt•,~rat~ l Con1p.aiil.,r pur,e h~, ec for abot.1t
$11 l 000 tbe ~., .~tent of' dnples: t ,.'Wt~·~ u1.phr "'t- b t-d d~.n1blt d it faciliUes. , Tow. if -hat
• l u1u1nydfluhl d it t1, ~rH~
br tbe T!urt'~~ :S(; •l~f t,bp du1.),lr:. s,-;st Ii, i" . is re.a _ooa.!tle,tB
t· 1.1 u~ h!~de t.ba t the co:1H·i lauy ·n · ·r ea;~ed it I· ·•' l t 1l!S t ~Hlrful tl wher1 t · · ·u
d ~e q u. · ~
r ,1 1 l 'fj..x s..:,rrtmlOIU. The pncc ]ta icl' m
wk . 'b ;l t to:r th • l,l pl1e ·., W' ~ ,S tritlin~.. The, illcreas
.11, r ··~rning,s , .:i · · i. , wen nu c.l rstoocl
,· ~• · ·..:111,r,1 t ~,l ov,f>I' l,y conrinunu.s a p,p ,1iea,tion of
" ' n t@F· to it'b · alread.,y fien.rfi1
w·at••·r, i_ tnc k~ J:n t hn l'!lltpr,-es·t, of j II tice the n~w~,.
J),~p..el's e,,. r., ·'- ,hert, B•l, ·. t . ated 1 he~ v~r rat . . . \\:'ba1 has been the rn lllt ,o f .hat jnst· ti.all . ·1.ahn r ls the pu hli c_; -enjoy h1g tho fruits of tbese in ven t,ic:m. >or an · 1lallt ·houo:fJ
Th clamor- fotr C:heap ,·r rat ., w, ~ i ··1 ga r~li d 1,y 1·he · ·on!I _rianr, a nnl 11ot Hn til ,o ppoeit ion i ines I ad i,ee.n bun : an cl e urn] . t ~~·ion ,e-. ta h lis:bed wast h t ariiff"fin&l ly 1 ·duee . Th"
ff l 1e1"iou in _
r ab~ 1.1 us 1t1.a ll e,ou pan-~l with tho in XpP'nsivi ·lne:r@a _e ,oJ" the company's,
t~Hi .~ ... The tariff" to·,c ,i~ ~o•hi t: , e d.:.nT ·of s.i:ngl · vdr s i,as '00 ti· ot.":i ·t orten wordR
.ur _lle , , ,,vhi]e to.-da, 1, with I h':, ad,nnita 1110 of fllUiu lrupl~x_tratl mi __ fom, it .i s 50. Thai
t~us, is am uneq_un1 . clucUob u, seJf~e,· ,dent. E ~side , the co~n:p, m~ 1 p,ay no tt.3·xes, on
t heJ.ce phu,nton1 c:·reu 'it.a. },or · ·amp1e, ·t he \V't.,st m Un ion T,ele gru pb Compa-r y ha,-v...,

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171

KELATIONS BETWEEN J..,.lBOR AND CA.P'lTAL,~

i . q n.~1: l rn l l xul wi l"("9 f o Chicago.. The SP ix wir.e in f;.1et "pre · n t tn.· n t:-,.:f..,,·H1
Chie:rigo f\, i~s. , ,_'he difte·Ft·neP. le· ·wes... n twe · ts ■ ftnlr anrl ~i~ heh~1•'fl rf'"l ,jl'htf"~!fi~ ·.1w• \\. .,f:'~t-

' ru Uu ·01 T~ 1~~.1·a11.,b Co u; 1ru1:v· to~ clu.l lr ,~- ,f light et"n 1,h ~ 11 tou1 ci l'i •·u·i 1· ·mu Chi l'3:!0,
· 1;;~· i lt;t w·oich tb ~ru :.1;111Le uu ,c l~itu f 1r iJXt: ~ .. ·ri.c~·· uut.etxab'I f"acHitie ar,~ euu 'DJOl!JJtt.
T1 , .ui't 1· o,v ,1 .e nding :t'n11" H ipa.ill ta.x~·~. n.~.. in t t l · ,,- •st tll l"'.'nior _T .. l •rr~=pb <.'01m:rrn: 1·~,. ~n it; , presrnt f~t·il iN ~ a.n i oil ut i'ng· to ov,~ r ·~ 1120. 000., v.· h fr· h i . f1 T tin !\:'f" ,,. Ynrk
,f1.h1tc·· ta _~ for on. y ,,r- o[!l'r gir', :11 va.;::;·ne id,e:J. nf t'br pro1 .err.th n of the ta~ fin· Nb t n1 ..

tir ! f ::o 1ut-1·1 ·,.
Jl t is ~~~~ · tu a . rt t-11.i · t if tb ,. t ul -i1')l ~·x ~ t •tH::-i h: l 1 · .:,t !B . n ~n •,_.,: ~ ful, 1oul!,le
the• i•1·t!~ ·u t~J "gr:. 11,l.i1 .. fa ·H[ti ·. · ,,·on.l,'l be TI."f,1u~n~•l t" trau ..li!it 1ht.• , u·,l1u., •· -~a1u] 1.~ 't>M•
-·. arv hn. ;Jinr~. ot" tlu~ e -.untr:r ~ J:t is beyo1t l ~ti, 1•ut · tll,:~ a· I ·:1~t t w{'-·11ty
u 11d
t p =~n hH] ' r~di'H~ Ut" ~ - ity to ' .meban i f;b,, ~;li, pat(·l' t• • . ,irith Chu·.:,µn_:. 101~ . A. lli~r,@
un h·aUJ lJut ,·i· ., tl , ,, tSr of 1Juihlh11g aud !,_.(! ·11iHg iu 1 ·ta ir U:u, otb 1 l" ■• nrt , · JIJ. cau
~-, ,. rt •1 ~0 bUiti-ti,u ·d !1!i,ll ('~·,j , },~tt, •l~ It i~ ~ri~uallv s::i-tfo t~o :1·~ t1'rt' !hat 1\"Uh(nr tb · '
u n101\' .d 100 : t H c ta. 1 I t o,.d: ~I' _:\ ou [ ,I 11 . u1, l, •·~lw l" ti· a 1 t· is,_ ~ . ~ , ha~ h..-,.-n ti -•1nou. ~• .1 :tr c~ , that w~ lf:1 t ·eel ~1 ct1 , 1 l as b p·u hro11 ~.,.·I · a ho .
\\: ~1 . . w hol1y d uc to CODlll . Ution
arut 1 .rlt. to the grnin. ◄ ~f iu·l'" 11tors.
l ! ofl U·! f b,r'f1 7at ~ ~. \~i u b ~ be· ,,.4,l•·~"t~:rH [' H i(}n T ·It~ ;tra l ]I: ' ·~ ,,rnpa ti r i:s t b ("( .-t of ] aibor- ■
01 :rt!. nl t ,,r..1:1 · ··u ) :•a.1r. :,,g 1 ··•,u ma 1u.l .,, l ~t :-1',aJl·u·y )f .~•,1, n J.1t ·r m.uon t IJ v. ll i 1. t o-·d a.,.. Hn'-!
3\"~•rimg4.! ,! inlary riiicl in tla~ .n1aiill:1· •fl:!,, •'~of that t · n11111 .•.un 1 ,,!il1er.·•· u,- ·r u,·c bunt1rcd t le.~.r a~ , h1 .·.:--i .• ,r . ,.. ,[ 1: lor,t•(l ~.. l ~-, tba t ~:i,1 l""r 1nun!h.
'. ,· Hl ,:, 10UH~l" i,nunrns(' ~:rvinµ:: i: lli ,t ~l in I htc.1 . nh · H.ntion of th -i~~• ,.1n10. · f n tl!t ·
..At U.a ud bat t1 r) . ,·)n • dy u a• o, a p fo, •, of Htil i •hhu.l )~ rH n by ~·h:·uH ·ht i hrr tu t ha;t
u. ·ed iu g ·nt.·nd iug t:l .,t:UJ, ·Jin ·· for •:-le .. fli : . U~l ·t~j" f;il · ~ t.be 11.t.m·• •· r1f o'r . r ·u,·,.,: tho1.! ~~U)11 1
Jars ~1:t ·th .• Cf. l1auil 111:iff.f "f\". Tl. - , .iu~ o\."::tfi.i111 i11 11,,: ·f · <~ri ... , .·!ltb•.-Hll'll u.·t·il im ~it .;-.• l Hrk
for tht Jla:st 11\·u ~~P:rr~ J:-,. •t f 1·cl·U.t ,U. -.._, , ..... ~sl a1 cl 1. no,v 'ht~·=ng _: , ,pl.i ii ,d fi.1r .~ utTal
u:se.
\\" h ·~· h~ u : fi't ha. n_ ~ 1:,NlJt·~ ~ ·: ·r-r tl~ri\~~"ti fr~ . m t bP, ~ ~ nu nen~ S.l \. ii ! I' l rousht
: •l,o .. t :b~.■ ~ht•·_ •aJHi b 1~ · ire. ot _Jl!U1J"1I~ :o:11m: '\\'JJ.F.c.,, heap la.bor, 8!11ah tr~x s~ ·uul Ul-~x:p.e.·n11S1,c
lr.aH1 . r1P. ! ThP 1 n .~ D1· ta.r H ,l"" -11 lt.,., .. ,. an '!er fh · qn,(" hon.. H,r~ ll'_ ' a tlnlfith..n -01 ~
tar-r.ff d1at ati:~•ct~ n<H .~~ portion of the 1u~op] · bnt tbe .1,, llfl 1 of" ·t le t1-utire c1t:tlllDtT;\ ..
Tw·-.•1 t y-fi ·\· ~ -••1 t ts for ti••·n n·or,.·1 t'o
J.lO ht : w j t liiu a :r,a d i ,a of l .Ot 0 1.11 ~ ]1.,s, ,ir-ou ldl
~"'lt:1L11,!t~ ··1l'1~· t •it j]i'ra,ij:f ,t:Olllj) ..lUI\ ho11es,·1y iuln1iui ·, ·'te◄l, to imr ·m,rnt1tu,'I le (li·v i,de:ud
It .i 1rot i ; 'IJ -t •l to pay 3.nnuaJ di"l iu nd, of 6 per (',e nt OU. $ ... t,,' ·no, Jl.10 of ' \\~;l4'ert~I
·tnt·k. J,. ·_tb · r1Poplo , llloul! ·1 not 1·0! rate th w:1t~r"'ng or ~tr ck of :u y ,r.01110'r.ation
fl,.1t d1~flt'Hd ''O'f t Ul the peopl~· fot it r, .rq~·pott~ 1'.i~t~ lHI:s~u~ ~ ]Ut!ll 1.,;1~ th .. e~or,l lUUUi
t ,•.le.~ ru p] 1.nll .. 1 l n t 1n.ake di ul nd, , oil} \\~at flt~d. ·.to • ·-:, 1u, ~ b~ . .. T "H~ •l •ntt u, 1nt ·rest .
·w ithe ~it a n.n rnu~r of ctn 1p,h1int or a word u,f 1n-ot , r, 11,,ay · 1 t ,1 $:... t{,,f- ,~, ·t-ry tUs11a· ,ch
St:a nt into t .· rS innt· ;w·r u , · ,lnte ~ -. ·!-Tll"ll ' v· dLae .i:lispnt h,~ , are s1lort, a:ncl U.u~:,r nlH . h~r
't lJU' . Rane ,. d·wily·. Tht-, t~legr.a11l1 l1Hl of Hl311); lm,nkiug _11rnr ,n f 1' ("\\" 1.otk ,~rP~rtly ea-:· ·• !d ._ l,.Of.10 pt-F ,v◄ - • • "fb 1►0-01."· ma,n
7,5 c "Ut,· to St to _t Llt ino,·; . u1~uJy for t ·,~
i•n·,•ih...~;rt• of info,:r wiug bi brotbr,r in Illinois or· Kanf..as of Ur ·- ll ·atb ut .a· l ,elati -~
Thb 1 r,c , i. ,··01 , ,u,.-u t.o ·1• ,y 01il -·b t 1f Rs ,c~n t; to 6 . "Hts pt: r " ·011l fit •r fb . t 'f.tl n:smis-si ou of ap it,"'! al di~JHd ·h •· · ~lnring the honra ,,·hen tlt _ ~-irrs a~ tuu: c upieil lJ,y 1n1h !e
bu .Hle!l;.~. lt. f ·1:k '- t],O mong,e r· t O , nd 3 ]')l1,e. sa, r~,. f O Clu.tugo t lb ■ .n t ,o I-I a1·~,. 1.l ~ 'I"h us l t
'Win 1 l"' .· •··n ~·11.ui t all i 't,"TI,•~t al M: k ,e '~dkll" 't"lm: Cn I 1f.>l] of or•Jn■f" - j "'i/t1,• • ~dl f" ~ fiu.·lfrun ,t t:u·1fts. That thi, ~.c·1ulh ·tftl c;)f att'~,h~ ,,~ill eo11tiou,~. to eJd t in th.i 1Htnm, uule~ ·ebeeked
'b y the it .·o] •I ,, J ~ pro,~, u ·b y th eou. tlu,c. of tb:i t mcn101;,oly in U1 ,., (la t.

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r ·11 is a ~ti :·•le "-as writt'eu 'b y me, in fb Advoeat e, a ·. the. t me of the,
1,niald11.g 0 11.t of the ~t il~t ·, ~,utl it ~·n1oo~ies, my ,,. i,e.·w,•, Yow·, 1f t11ere are
an) qt1.C8fo~ s · bat tlte t:01111:nittee w·ish. to JtUt in c~>nuec. li.,(u1 ·w itb this
sn 1J ~ t.e t I :sh aU bP plt.a~ed to a n .~nvt.1r t he1u ns \\'" JI a.s can .

(l. ,,·11y ~lo~ (~U

tlu1t tht r '.I: l'. $50.~o•·o ,0 00 of ,,-~,t~r-etl :~toftk' ,,
A., ,, ~] I, J 11 a,~~ said hert' that it i :, statt~d tha,t tli~1~ is .e,~10~000 ..000 of
wLi tt~1J.~<l Kto··k., It 1.u1.:· he. n ~o statP1l 1n tbt~ Ut~\'fS(>aft~S~ a HI I ha\'" e not
Rt-en :1 d~Uiid of it by au) of th ," oHic ·<. 'Is nf the ,·ontpau r. Jt ha~ le n
1S atl"'d. bi'"'
_01oe of tho~e ,,·l.10 ·1:1,1: , .. -. 1I'lre.ot..~led u1e .:ls ·, ,·it1~t"'.:~~es 1,t .i,r e that
a
tb(~ ,,,1au . (,f tbe ,,..e·~t 1·u ·u rJ iou Coin l)any 'l'S1 ,\~orth , 1u•,,t In I bly, abotlt
9 .;J() 000.00D .l ly o ,vu OJ >in i01 i,s tb,( · that i~ about w l Hi .. i . i~, 't\~u l" t.b. I do
11.,),t th.ink it is wurtb anr n10 ~ tba.ll that, ft~au be f&ct 'that other 001n.1u,,..
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l u1ur~;1 .> \·~.11 :t•l: t· ·s~ I-~~ th . u1 SlO.UUill~UUO •tutl the liut.u·il - niou~ \\ h ~*Ii
(,o:,t I••.:--.. 1!•uu ,.;1~,CiC'O~ffO ~ud both of tlu u1: ·, te-tt" iu a~ :.!OOd slr.lJl _ ius ·1ht!
t tl. ,· t~ n :1 •. 1' _
,:\ t-slt·t·u l · n:·,,u 1[ so ii.U as tlwPJ, eu,·t re•l tlu:.li ~ iuu t lTilo1•,,·.
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and. ['llaic ·a~u. cUUl inlt·l UH: tliaf(~ ·tr .ion~, tbr,: \l"l l'(_ in fi'~~.ct Ut ~ut. ,t oudti(ju--i1:1J-...·t ;·,~ :,...ood. t-·1• urt ion .u~ hti ,, ti tt:rn l i n iuu Un ~- c.tce11,tiur.:
fh ·•u. tiu -,.· t 1 iitl n •·t t •.~~· tWu t.~n: ,l1·n1>l do.x ~.,,· :,,.t·t··1n.. I l ~t H,~,-t~ th1 \lt!:i-= r1 i,1•n:
l 7U1t!U ~Ul.U)UIU,\ 1HI '\i"( ~ t~~n Ii~ Jt r·,f 1hat ~·~·. t t~1n ,r:I ud )!ur,rl), thP :t ,.ht~i ,.·t~
rl~.la t to t.1~t~ it i u. , I. L·. t ourt r~; I c,10 nor I, Ju •\r ·ut.r ,l.- •t~ ii~ a bot t _lu• thU"
ot· 1:lu.~ ,1u·ru lrnpl cix ·11 ·""tU.l.. J kuo\\ ln.t\\"(.l\-t~r, th·1t i't is iu u · - 'h1 Ent;:·hnul anti ~,Iso in J,,rnn•<·~t .,
'tl1 • tj}~~rn1:~11 ]ii ~e ~.in fh -- u'ited
Q. Do JOH k 11,,,f" \\"'h.a'f. J•1"<~1,ortio~,
States in e cout1·0Urd \,J t ht. ,,. r.~ h i-u t . . uiou ·'feh.~.~•··11 tl1 -_ 01nptin · autl
u·ltat l)I'O)>Ol"ti :lU i~v ot lu· t!OlHJHU it•.-.: ,/ -_\ ~ 1 lu t i'~ · f]U~ .-tiou I ~llll u -abl(~ to n.us,re1·.. I j1ul'~ ·., lunr 1 \·,er, Uiat l'Lu . \\ , ·t"~ru Union Company·
, ~ou _rol , fn ·1y r,1·•l~t'hirt'l.·· if uot tl l.l'll' t• fu1n tb , of fh . ,, lllol • Do yo,11
~ pt~~'lli: uo l'f' of tJ •1n lH 1 , 'l',('"l.a l Hu l 1~ Ol l f ~<t"n t,, l,'r'( a.t 11 -},i: ..,
the.
Qt f 1 on l'Hl"'l"(~ia '! uUC~.·- \ . l 'h t\\- C }H tntl. ft ,n.\r thret-~t·~•nrt lus
st~
(~o, 11:nt···1·c·i··,d riu ~.. l ·;·hint· ·r hut nH flu:· Hut~~ out ·.i lt. tho~~ of 'the
eru l 7niou a1.111ount to f101n al,ou 10,000 t~l 1~· ono 1nitr~,:. und if tb ,,-t·st;;;
ha,-·e TI'." lur fl1 y •l:··1in1 tht\\- ·h~1· ·e o,·t!r 100,000 u1i1e ~
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one nr t o o ·· tb q.u st.ions a st tt bil 1, a nc.l l1i ._ ., .n.~vrer~.
Q. Yon ha e s'ta ed, I tblnk flrtt vou arr.re in g ner~il with tbe
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THX - THE,. ·SS.OOIAT~D

.. I meant that I a. greed _u~1th wbn ~ barl ·b een stated in re.g ard to the
comp011,~ati.ou of
cau.s es of the strike On the ., ;eneial s.1bjec•_- o.f t
operators I might state that ·wli·e re I an1 , niploy ,d , iu tb offi.ee of the
' - ·w York A ;s ine'iated Pre ,. tb 1o,\"e , sa.la J paid t th 1'{}gut r op
era.tors is. $110 a.,·month. Ther are n1en w-01·king fen 'tiaat n . oei.at1on
w:ho get a . high as -'170 a _n1onth; t , lo,A":rn1,h 011 . 1nto:rs ·,nean;;.
Q, S.implv as ,o era 'ors ~·- A. ~-"'in11),ly as •Opei-ati,u·s~ No,v it i8 ·11)pa.1 ..
ent uom tbe,s ·6 gure . -h at thor - is. uo 00111.parison ·b e we -n th t:ornp n ..
sation -b-eb -be Assocint ~1 1->1 ·~s 11ays a ,1. that ,,rhi,c h the°"' st,e rn
Uni :n C'om11,an·~~ pays- Tu ar ·1·J1.g~ s,tlar1 iu tl1e \Ve, '. t ·rn Union. o:ffioo
is abou.t 00 91 :mout .,, ,v·lnl in th · A soeiated. Prest. office it :i ~ .~bout
eao a eek. The) J a.y weekly tb -re
Q.. Is there any d··ft~r,e1100 in tb- -_·HI of he op rators, that onJtl :ae,..
count tor t-b e tUll'er .nee in pn-y ~·- : _ A ·man. ba got to b - - 1Strictly fi·m tclass elegraplu~r io ord r ~o w·o rk in tl1 - Pre ~s .r oom, bu ; I entnre to
sa.~· that th .r 0 ·wei: . i o. tlr -\\ est r.n 1_ uion offi., ~,1n, ·vi,ons. to this, itrik,e1
fiuU,y t\-rO bnndretl m ,u ,vbo con'l d ,go np into the ,·. sociat d Pres . office
•,_nd do t.bat work.. I :am. .p eakiug no, - of N e,v· - .ork a.lone. The,
only d1tTt.ren e etw· n -·h . A· so •jat ed Press work and the 0th.e r i's
tba it is nee ·~~ar,; to be Jl rfect in p•tu ctuaf'on, ca1pitalizing·, &c,,
becaus , -lt -n t-he cop~-- le , e,_-, ·tJ1e operators in th - .A,s --oiat cl Press
o.ffiee i goes di . ,ct t . • th , •om~lost·ors or editors of' tb.e -- ew York
pape·r -, "'~bile in _. e _-- ,-. . tern Union office it maik a no d1fterene.e.
wh ther th- y p11.n1ct -at,- and cap,i t -Jize COIToofly· or uot, because those
thing _, ,are not "eut,'b y ,vt - Tbe • is no db;: i oction ·m.ade in ,c apitalizth
- d the persun receiving
.
. li _.· .n d_1ng
- w_,b11e
·_- e. meeeaa;o
over i wire,'"--_,
ing
has to, nse bi own jad., -me -· i tka.t pa·r ticnlar.
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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I ,,-,tu ]d r1~.. to f~~1u nHit-'Ui ion~ ~o. t1 t!iP )l'~l'ih·u;;ui !t' f ,( I~-~ ~q.J;Fr.". 'fht ~
,:·n.t.· a t·1c 11i ·iou tu 'l •. l' ::'.\t"'\\ \ "",o i·'l r ~u -11 ::St.,\· 1;:1 1~-tJ;lnu l li! ·,1iilnu d .. ul r Iainyj]h·, t.~u:u,h - HII l l.iit· !.. ·t1 of ,Jrm . ~·, u.-~ ic~1 t··~1u~ec' tht tlt~L·1 II uf I n·t t~ 1u·rfi,f u~..
1 ht tt-'h_·g-1·i.·q 1.. l Ii t. I\l tor ,at I. h1 i 1 \ - Ut _ n youu ~ n 1-ca H '\,·ho JJ.·t•r•Ph.- ed
;;-:1., ;l UI u1•··11 , ·\-~ ;s r .:~1 10:; ..:P,l!t•· tor tlu. ~-t·c~i·,11t Ht. lli.--;, U.il11ll(. is (j,,,·,0l"f!t~
,,.. . elsl1. l l t ,·.·us OU 1\," •• \'t~·1r •• or .u f.!'tt·.. ,,. h~·n 'ht '\'\rH •· l'"f.~ 11I ~h.n-t.id lJ i ' H -~-!"its ,:\"r-1·1: not i:1 u. uh;c_■-cl i uto - th fnl 1,- 1~t·( _u;i.-..i h q ~~d in ·~tt. i u r,>ir 1·a i h·oiHI
01le1,· rto1 ~ heiu~ f h · t t Ley ,~~
n1 1:r,01··k _ln a1)1J~, a ud. t]J.a-1t ru fe 'Wi:Ui HJ.t]l Ut.~d
in fh ·:, ; , ◄ ~.r:1.~ , vith tclTihhlli t.uuseqne,nce.
1 hi.~. ,~on H~"" nnu~ ,•·a'lh!i,cl u t 0 n r
01 ··:,-t~ , 1! .. , hi.,;\~ ~wfh.··1·, fbt~ ·tc~i.th. nt ; he had lef", honn i u ·r- l1u.•· ft_1·;.n~ uf br-iug
:n -~~tetl,.1~nnl ht culh ti on us foe ·1d\"'ice.. ,,...e 'telegra,p b.e< h ~ z,,; t:blk~ , and
·• i •.~l:t.. d "T
'lla t c-oulcl l ~,~ tlon - iJ 11 ,· · bould rP :U'rH ltoine,. ( )n1· ad.Y.ice :to
ti 111 '\rax fhnt. ht:" sboul,,l rt t 1ru 1uul 't.aud tria.t Ba ~I ,,-as ·1n·ocnred
fo1· hint,. ..unl h,~ i · r_o,v oat on $:!,000 bc1n, ao,l I unde-i-starul that thP.
,e~ou p~l ny is t1·:rino· to · tt l _, the 1na tter llJl D. inforu rd us anll exb ihi ti. tl to ns l -t·11 >e1·s ,r-ui •b sho·~-ed t lJ a . t be ~on1 pnn ,- ·"Terc n Ot't:L to
bl:11ut. t11nn lu ,l"·t~ for tbt acei,cleut _ Afler he ·h atl been on dnt:r c H tl~l)-,
fnl iu 6 o'c o ··ft i.n the 1nornh1g, I ·h i·n k, until 5 o 'f;[ock in the ~,r: er:n oou ,!
h c r.,ic., ive,tl u trai1 -order to, , _bolu."' a. l,;1ssen,« er train . atul ·,min , d at('},~
fttl rt ..•, -i,1no· tha order,. iust -ad of rnnn·iug out ar d sigunliug t.ht
tr~m in _he was -- c~ill(i,l HJ)" y the cl.JJief opt rator a · auot her =s 1ution .. ·'" l.10
~e1rt lliin u n1 e~._·~p; · 01·deri:n~ lrhn. to re1 HJ'rt at. n tud u Jibo1~in_g to,,, u ;ls
.s · on ~.slit \ra~ ott· duty nt PlainYi J.p and remain thci:·~ 01 tluty an tdg'h t,
autl tbt~ll to rtpo1·t .•a,~k at PLc.l in,~ill · iu t.he I lOI""nir1~ and 1eu1.uin tlmere
da .. ~ Thu~, rt a11i1)e~u, d. tlu1t th . -tilne h~ o -bht to l.1aY· . ~_peu _ in going·
<,ut nnd · ag~in.~ t he· train v. a : constuned in r-eee~,.- iu_
g thi:.;, Ol'd -r f·roru
bi~ ~: up,t"'r·o1· oflic~:1·, ;i1ad fhat '\ tti -, tbc real eau ·. of tl1 - a,er,itle,nt,. Be
dt"O]l'llt:d 't'he siguu , u nd., b -ill~· ou tlut). ,so ]011,g , 1S on1~hu\"f or other he.
1n1lltd it DJ) in- .t a.d of J' ttiu. _it re1uain in it 11osi -ion so fhn th.: tra,iu
could lia,~· -· s.e ~.11 it,, a1H1 hi- " 'ti.n1e wa , , oecnpi ~l at th · instr nneut
in~ thi.s message f10 . the cl1iet op Ta.tor, '\'\:h n he~-. ould ha, · b :1u
fli1ggin.~ th . trainli \11"he.u sou are 1~ee1 ing auytlnu_g fi-orn - he iu~ttu1n,t!u·. l ot1r at eutiou hn -. to h on it entirel,y , and ,-ou can tot ·t biurQf ·-uiyth.i.ng · ls~~ -·he cou~equence. wnK fha ! tbe train <Rtartetl ou iu-•
stead of 1·cm._inillg a.t · h s'ta.tiou, a.nd th - atcidcnt uccn1"1ed. ~ow., 1(
t 1e accideu·1 ba.d not h;.1ppened, th.is youn :, man, iu obed,'i,e:nci 'to that
4lrt1 C"'-t of fh _ clJi · f 01}era,t or, would ]l11u~ :. been on ,d uty, wHhout any· re,~t,,
fo1 tl11 rtr-~ix hou l"1S~
By tbe C,e ·- JR·
Q.. e·o ;-r old u--ii"' t'b : bo:r T-A.. H · wnR onl , 17 years of a.ae.. A _. t'be
tinl,~ l1e CilDl 'to oni ,office · Jndg,e that he was 'W ore 1n a.ne t11a11 au~"'tbing e e ·, · c 11rante(l to ,c hang·e hi.s narn,e and get 01 .t of the coontr-.. .
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B:r llr~ LDRICH :
Q. ··· hen yon spea' .., of '~tbe oompan.. ,, in th.it-\ connet~tion,. what company do you. 1nea1i f:.........A,. The N_.- w York and N .e:t\r Eu :rland Railroad
Comp,a oy.
B:\;' th.e Cu --IRl\lA: · :
Q. When di,d 'tb.i- . accident oecnr :.--A~ It occur.red on the 9 _.h
J·u l.y .
~ e ,cal1ed. on us 011 th
-0th or 11th,.
Q,. Wilen did he strike take pla,c e T-A. On the 19th of J nlr·~

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

rQ., Tben tlu a,cci.d ent occurre< before th r"trik. !--A.. Before fhe
·trik. There ha been another accident r~ince, which ,can~ ·d the d.e ath
·. f Sri K !) f ..:' lH ~ ; th,l t 'n"'St:i 11 p near T 'l"{ Y, '" n t'b ~ .~ ' ·. tate~ I thiuk that a ~·~
ci<l ut uu the · T'r oy an~l Do ton -~1 1~ll'oad~ liy n·- ich ."iX person w· ·•·r e
l illctl out:l·i,-,,·b t \Ta. llrH~ t .· tl1~ H1:Jure of t1u · ope1 ntor at, a jn11ction
there to eurr.r out I ix o~tlrC•r.., llr \. a.s ordert-tl by the tr~un-disJHl.' cht~r
to hold , ud fla.~ r~rin Xo. I for orll~1■•
Iu~ or~r·rator t>lnc,ed the f ~· ~
out, uutd ·t raiu Xo-s ::.. ·h~ul llH '" std, an,I then took it in Tlu, 1Pr]l·o1· in t~t'k ing iu 11 tlat! u•h pn tr1in . ./o. :!r luul p: .j.-~~d. iu t ~ul of (4: \"ing tr out,.
thu , '. o )pi u, t lu~ tr·1in nu i1 ~ o. l Iunl .•1r1, i\"tA ,a t t hl Jnuction, cnu~c tl
tu ~ ~oUi ·ion., ' . h~ ( pt:-1 nto1· h l th:] · , ~·1.~'.{ : . I iuulerstund i •. j 1.: 't a. · youn •~
Ut'I thL othl 1-lr :\"~u.i·s ,f' a~t:.
I. ani uut n ·e Hhont tb.~t • fit "t, bnt I .a,v·
.~t ' 0 ·~tclfl"d in 011{~ ·Of tlu ~
·y nrI~ d . il~•r 1•m1~(~:t·+.\. I lnll,L not inYesti
eat d the ra;.~e y , t, but intPIHl. to I• ;ol into it.. Jie harl h ,e n n I d1 1t. 1

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t1~ou1 o o , ·lo ~,k fu: th,e· ~v~uing u11 ii 7, o't.·lock 'tllc ionu,'"'!'ug 1norn~=1g llltl
l at t ri hu te t'ht~ HJ Hurt:. to •t ◄ u1 JJl.r " " Hh the ord ·1r aud tn"'·~·\•,eu · tlF ac ,·i.tlcn ' 0 1h ,' f._ ·.·t ti nt lu• It◄, d ltet u ~ I ) ' OU g on d.ut,,r that 11 is n11iud '\ 't ~I.
nuuldlt d L ]t f1·01 1 t·11;1 t ~: 11~< , ··u,d ah•~o fro n ha ,·i1 ~o ru·'lllJ. tl1iuJ!~ 10
at l'nd to~ Tlr·1 ti no ,Ion h1 . ,,,-aN 't.htl 'Jc a . ou '"~·h,v ]1,1 1·l1i1t tl ro lt ~uull-i: tb .
tin~ l op~i·l v ~ ()p,~· ·c1 t nrs.< t r.· ulrun.tls l n ve too Ha Hy (J\1U1t· ·. to pe-rforrn .
t ~pe ·-iHUy jiu Ylt,:•{- of tl t~ sn1~1.n tBUOUllt of iUOU "' tbe·r J"P(l' i'\ . . Tiu ·r.1. ..
Ml~on~il)r·l1iv of tb c ·ailro·1d fJJ) :a rat(n·~ 1s gre:·1t .. 1· tl1nr1 t'ha't c.f the e11 _d1t .ers, ,,·bil ~ t·l1t-·h· JtlY is al~un't oncTl ·cdf ~ts 1.uuc·h~ It .~ just ns in111lort:u t
· o ha \ ~f " , _•on I, tPut OJ)t r;J tors ·u 1·a Hro;ul oiUct: .: ,i h iu (!Ouuu 1· •ud o·ftice·:s,
and i,n IH,.\" 0111niou tb.:lt can be hion ~,.ht abuu . onl\. . h;r l .ghd•1.f.io111 .·~01u~
J>t lhn~ 1·;;utro~u·i con· p nirt~s :.nul utbt. r ~·orrtorrti iou ·. •t·n plo;rin 6 trlegrn1,)rl1i
liel1,~ to ~t Uo, . sncb 1 t JIt un11,]t th· 1· itrr tt.•·s · .nnt] r ec ·t.,. tjou A ,~ to tl1
O:l,H .. l"' tto1·:-; O ·l tlit 1·ui1ro;"1ds I tlo not think au:.T of then, ,, ork. lt.s , tl~1a·11
f-l·J~bt to fhurt£•,r•n or si xtt · .'n hniu: :t ~1~1y, a 1a ut
n1e l\-ray-~.'t-4:lt~.ous 'tl1tjr
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I tltiu. ~ I lu,t. ~ . th ' t■,;"r,1U,!''l'"'ll ,a y -'l"U~ 1,a:r; and ~n ,.\
n ·nu ll,~r of ca~es th . ,\r lr1 \" ' to ]l,Ptto:rn1., hl' . ~·ide t 11 '."t teh-~graftuic \f'Ork,.
tb.·. •lutit ,~ uffl.~1~.n1 a.n Jitl.~~·1,~re L11~=1 .. ft r~ ti•~ket u,g ent aud ~otuetim ·. ; ~ ho~ ·
ot' ·u .itch11 an.. Tit M1·e \'. . .as an a-ccfrl ~ut ou. th
\'r 101·k Centr·il cuul
11.nd .on ]?1 ,·t r 1"0ad a itt l . O\.' t(E. a l~· ai·· ,.t o-o, ,rhi 'h ca n:s ~tl th ; dt 1tl1 of
a ir, un l1t1 r of s . 'bonl c'hiltlrren.. 'Tht..ll ·was owing to tbe tt>le~ ra1,h ope1~u.or.. l inYre sti l1 tt~d f ll1, c•1s:e flU(l otlt1 :r tl to g ro on tbe ·t'lll(l a S :t '' ltut-•.,?
ou b balf of tl1 .· operntnr, b tt:~u1 •e, I kne,,r Just th), e.i rcum .:tnnee . co 1uectell . _itb fhat Jl·1ri ·ulur dur-x; I lhe,\~tltu.t tbe 111.an ,,as. ffll dnt\"
twelv a au 1 ·ii ba If' l ou1-~ a dur j n tl1~ tn1 11el, w-her i ·- · ,c:: _ im11,ossi b'l e
to .~ct 011 . br-ca· ll tl - fr sh ni "' in
tllc,lt tinu~. ' I he atm.o:•plt -re i.s ln,h ·n
u-t11 rra ,_ 1 bt: 11r·t-:~;iug lo ·~ou1oti,·e~r l.e,ayo it tlJ · re and i. tn · s tbt-ff
frorn ODP ti 1ul · f t b , Yl ur o th~ othe , iSO tlia t th - t.· ~ 1s uo elm ,t noo of' -~~t-4
tir1 ,~ fre· ·.h air Tlu: uian r1111t1e aie h.1 h . tnnn -J, a1ul b · lu1d to : . 1u~1in
tl.Jcr,e in tint t atruospb 1~ ~ "Ih 01~ :ra.tor ,,,·no too tlie ll 11rc e of the one
"'ho , ~an ,.. d th ·acciueut told n.1·" th~it af er te had.· een thure ~i.· raonths,.,
al.though he ·went t · ?"re health_- illO(l h :nitJ: . be was CO,_ l)l U tl to lr-~1ve·
·i t on aeconnt oi Ktuttiug· up b?oocl. ''fhat is the ootulition ot· 't-hc ~t\t,ioo
of the Nt•,i · ork Cenl1al nnd Dudson lliver Railroa(l in tlr _ tunn. -L
Of cou.1sc it i · \:f ;r_} ,d i ff r -~n t on t i( I. ~
Q" · · 11eu your id a. i··. that. jf il 1nan ha to be stationed he -·
bis hours. 01· s,enTic · 0.11gb to be , ..,e1:_. shor ·' ♦y , s, sir; "t erJ;" bort.
In fac·t h .. l1ould 1lot be on d·. 1t a·t all iu the t,uunel, ,~~et ·p:resume fltat
iij nee sar;y.. B e ba no _ onJj~ th ~ duty of teJe,·! !rnpb operator to per
Jt rm,. but he has to .i.gnal tra1nsraLo.,r and trains pass to .n d fro there
eler■y . ew
iuut.. . That OJJ.emtorw.as indicted form ·nslang'hter, aud
;t· ~:; to

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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~-- EL1 - TIO, -S, 'BETWEE -

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LA'BOR. --- ND CAPITAL.

I b _- li._ ~, e ?;as con,··cted, but I nndersta;nd.·t hat h•·- wa,s parclon _il 'b¥. tlio
go,~ @1· nor of the State tit re days, a ft,,Jl,r h:is ~on , . .ict ion I offered 1n f"'
st rvices as a witnes / i·o r hhn, anti I wa~ tol,I h - th - r1tilrn:ul .m.,en th~tt
I would b · callet1 on to te~t-fJ , but I reeei.,- d no notice,, and then . x I
hear<l wa -, tl1 ~ _t'he nnn1 \l'Hs out ,j', tul u ¥·1 .· -, . --em,plo): .i,,] by _he con11nu1.r ..
T.lu1. t "~as what 1 helt rt l,, but
ne \-er in,.. l~'s t 1g··1tee l o see ,r"b -t-b .1r. th(. .
stat.em ut ,,-·t~ _coi·rt■.ct or not. Of c,o ur .·e,, ho""t·c ver, ·vre an u u1l ~r-_~:t.·tn~l
tba the ranro~td uou1pnn.i,~ - kt ._ p 11uatt r -_ of that kiiu.l ns q -.iet '"18 t b _.,~
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Q. WI .o iii to l,Jan1e in ,sue , ,ca e ,,,, th raHru:ul ,e tlmpani~s or the
'llUblic ·,~d10 dt2uunul lo\\~ fi ~~ ·- A. Iu n1:f opinion the pu bli<~"'tr ro
b la ·m e tor _ole. ~l' ~ng a uy ~neli s.btte ,o f tb.ing8.
J.

Q., tVh·flt, re -·e.(1.y " ~ould ~~nu sugg Sit · ta' _ ti ·- pnbl'" _· s.b.ould Jc1opt iu
· - ,, 11 - ( . l~ "' ,. , -A
, , - O:f'
- - , ·s-·C you n1 . ui
•·} ··1 1
" J~- ~I""'
Utd
, . \'·
., t!--11,1,, I -1
( on-~t- now~
-.. COUL
. ,e-~
u ,t·l ""'
,, u4
.r ,cu1 ._ d i<
Q,... I on 1, wan 1J-o ~t~t your illtn as to fue-vco.l _t1v·. ldel 11otnr ant - su ~·! '-',~•s au~ · b ~-1 " InJse If.- \.~ 1\ t U- I wotd.tl sn'" gt s,t le o-i:.,· Jat ion eompe Ji 1,;
i-ad.roiu·1 eo1n1,.a.ui~ s to ]1a¥P t lu:jr en1p-loyes -\ \~or· - DO n1or -tba.: , say, ei n•ht
hon ts-·1 d·rv or night.. lt is ,:, s -rio 1.s mat · r., wb u a n1.a n b.a, ,,~orkr~tl
dil ui~ _ f1-on1 6 -; clo ~k ii1 'the , . ning until 7 o·c ork or , . 01,c lock i~1
•in~ nit,rui.ug~~t ts ,a '°"c ·y s ri.ous 11r1at et o nUovr tl~1nt m:•1n ._ o lta1i.ne
11.·uin--01·d.t~1~~ after bein«· on duty an uight.. I tliinJ- i.t• is 110 . -~a'h'" ix" u~ a
1uu11 un(l€1:· ~~1ch _jf\cun1 ~tillnr.fs t:o handle train-onie,r s when tht.1. :,..·•1t .. t
of trains dt}'tetu.ls upon fh:i carrying ont of tho.~•e ord r~ corre.ctlJ.'" .,
Q,. Do :rou uot uude·rRt 111,l thilt tlu, law· is tl1at. COJ'rnuon ,·"'1r.rier must. catl')" - 11 -..it Jlitt~s ~n .m~l r8 or .~ood~, S'·ti~ ly ,., a ntl t .•.i ,t i.t i .};ss *lrtia 1 ·i u
order to (US •har.!t·" tltnt dn.t:v . that fhevsh• _ll woi·k fheir foreeonl'r reu~ouabl:· hours. l11 ntl-1 -~r ,rord~, Wb.) couhl not i ., corJ>.or·;i tion b ~ indi~te•l
,a·nd ,Sn lJje tetl to j H..'t J. ~a.I p ualti, ·. ' uuder tb -·. la ''r as. it no,, · ~t~nul.- ~ -- . I don't know· about that.
Q. ,, :~H, if :s.·1cb ·b e the_hj 'W, and ye th: eorporrtti.on.s cJ.o now· e~ca le,,
,rh(!ru ·s tl1 ren -dy in le_g·bil tio:n
I s e no re·m,ed.r 11n],~ss ·the
J - gislation 'h;, enforcttl
Q A1ul the enforcemie nt of Ie~Yi ,.J.ation i' - done b) 11ubl~c 01>iuiou,
i --·j .. not -- :A~ I · has to be tlo n e bv- pub I ic opinion evi den tl.J, for t be
l ' g·i slu ti on \;\.. h.i c11 ha~-_ b ~ n enact d 'h a8 not bee.1 l ,e a rried on t, to Ul_y k u.o,r'} ..
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By llr. GEOG,GE:
Q~ H11,;e vou any knowJed.ge of how th, bn -111e'8s ,o f tel -.J..rraphing is
r.ouducted, or ho _ -rbe pubUc i, · ,~ er,ed; by fbe. ·vreijteru Union Tele,graph Compcln)•· sinoo t _t.; ' trUi:,e ! - -·_ . i\lJ. op1n,~,on on ·-hat sn~ject is
ba~ed upon ·11fi1rmation w·hicb. l htt\"'C rece.i.¥ed from th.os _e,u:ployed ln
the, compa.uy's op~mtin_g room., nn<l tbat i.s to the effect t.ba·t the condition. is ju: t terrible-frigbtfnt
am sore tbat the ·messages ha.1 ': _l'e.
handled no - b't'~' h.e 'l ·_ ,e steru lJ:nio,n Co1np
,: an. since the stri"ke 1 a,·e
been handled :in ,.-- ,rcrr botcbed. . up manner; and 1t is almost safe to a~ ..
se:rt th, .t most of th ni ha,v,e been n1a: ted. I know th. t :-be ,oomp.ar.rv i~
doing · '\; ,e ry fair pres, service, tr,.•-in_,:, to satisfy the p·r ess and maling
evtry· effort t,o clo tll1at; bo-t the.general business of tbe public is laF,g ely
mailed.
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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Q.. 1l'"h1 is t be fou - d:•.-1-tion of your b~lief on tllat subject • l ~lo not
a ...k ,J.~ut1 · o ,li~close an::r tuu1 e~. or to, briue n113rb,od)'. under tb · penaltJ of
tltie. di plua~,, ure of ·· · •e ,co1u1Juuy, or auyth·iu:0 of that sort~ but I '- houl,'I
1Jk · to k.no,,v un what yo- r opiu ion i.s bused ..,- -~.. ,,:,- e1l, u11'\: in form.a ut •,
n ·c. ·w estern Union · u1i)lo:-r,6s:, and thcr state that such j~ the ca -....
, .\ ·111et.l I t~r t l. eh.· st a em e-11 ts a1-e true air 11ot I a·mu 1n table to s.a-y.
ti,. Do J·un kuo,~ ~urv of :ron-r iufoi-n1ant , 11e1 - ·n1aU1r !'- A. I know
~t: Yt-11"'11 of t J1euil au tl I k unl\~ or her ~ that It tt!i ,-o t. lu.~ sa ni lufor1na.tion
·w ich l receiv ~. It cou ~s to iue "'-tt eco1Hl-lnuul I nrL ·ht. ~HY., C)thf"rs
1hat 1itr be -bJr ,;.u~<J n cri n t d \Tith the ·p ers.ou •. . 0111 -ov -d in th a oflt
1~,c ei,·e the ~ n ~n'1:!' iuforn ·ntion.. ,o f cou1·~l!- pt 1 son eu1.11,loy,~tl to-d3J~ in
tl ~ \\, l!': st,t!'f'.U U uiou office \1·otdd uoi· be, HkcJ,·· 'J.l tell nu~, a perfect ·. trau
g,t~r to th~u,., ,, hut the [·ea1 •coutlition of aflhit· , i~. bn.t they will t~n their
1~, rson·1l f'i•~-enuls, nnd those friPntls cn1no ~ nd tt--U rne.
Q., Harl~ , ·ou lu tl a11r 1,er· onal 001nn1uuicatiou ,, ith these pe ouR
4lir,~ ,ly :-- \~ I ha\:-e bad no u·ritten. counnunication ~, hnt I b· :,~e nsked
'.,p.v~·r al of tlu~1D ~·l.Hlt tl1e s· ate of ,a tlait~ ·,\·a,s in th. c u1fHn1:{'s ,o ffi,e ,
.:- uHI 'tbel'." lin,.e n s'we1•,e d 1u . as I h,t'\'. e .t:nted, ,a nd., a8 I believe, cori·e~!tlJ~
Q. Dill ou kno'-l~an~ of the per. on _· " ith who1n :\~Ou con.~ersed !~
·\ .. ·-r~ .• sir."'
Q. \Vha't wns th, ir character
Good.
Q~ T1·utL1ful - :..4. . Trnt.Iifnt Of' con1·s e I aut able to j!u.d,g · pre Y'
,,·t-• lJ n1, se'l f of " ·bat the eon11>an ·, can do ,v~tb ·~ ee-rtni.n ftn ·~ kuo,vtl1;:1t tbeir 180 ·m .· n,. all told, i1'1~cluding officiu]s of tlJe_compan,: and ~Jerks,
~unnot take 'tile lll0c( of 480 or u00 mie n; and of those. ISO som-e n1·0
Jtl{•n who ha,-e not: worked the qu:uh.·up'l ex ~,J : -te.tn =:tt all 1 ,l'hich requh~t•'·.,
.·1 1~igl1 degref of . kil _, n 1d. :a. · :r it, n1anr otht.~1s cu~ '\"ery rt g:t.l iu the
,t •·I,~rat iu i l1n~ine:ss,, ]'lot I 1[l1l .in
,,-01 k :•t1 a.t it for :-r r ar~.
Q., Do . U ,e ,,restern uiou L,ou1prtH~\~ ilth.nit h~1 in,~ ouly 180 O)>era..
tors, u-ov.· iu ~ c,v l ork 1- · . I thil li. t l1at ·i:~, (~n tlu~"° e.I-1i m to th , 11e·\\ 1•~1,e1. 1·~po:tte-r'8. I nckuo\\~Jec.l~l':e, ·h o,r _.., e1~,. th.,~t th •, bt1sin :sg of tue
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,..,~HnJ1a111J l's nntcb Hg·h · er now than u~nal, ,aud that, of oou1·s ,_ is a gt"tat.
rou~ider-dtiu- in their f \''ori Th ,:). 1.~nblie tre not h uuliH,•J' in bu ine. -~
·1 f- ue usual ra t,e, and the •con11u1 u,~ ean:r .ot co1 i.eet husiue - ai: it 1
couhl.
h ·.-fore the str·ke. There, w ··r,. u great inn.my branch offl.ces her · b fo:r•t-ttbc ~trike that are not1:- clo ··:-1. lt i~ hupu sibl ~~ foll· tlu peopl,e to ~001e·
frt H n Harlem an£1, al I around. 'to t be u1:ain otilicc. to s..< ntl ·bt~i 1- il i:-;.put ~b eL .
it· t-bey ditl y.o .·1 would o bf" i1hle, to _g et near ·_ he bniltling, br.c.au:~e.
thtre are sixty or seveuty thou- ,tn(l di .patcb.et sent, . ;y,e r,Y da·v· in 011.Uuary times.
t tlnk. the lunb r ln1s r-nn a~. bjg~h .n~. ~o,uoo,and t -lat does
Jlot inclntle t'be prt!SS reports ,a ud di·. patcbes , or the stock quotatloDs,
'\\~hich is a l er~· hea.,·,, , p·art of tile bu~ine~ .
\s I ·1, ·•,· ~ -a id, i ,,Toui,cl
'i

h~ ll[DJJossi l]e to ta'J!r,c i.u

that u11nher· o:f ruessa:J ft~, in the ioair o ·met',
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aud · hereto.re. I jtul r . tha.t th~ volul e of b 1siue s done now by th~
cou1pauy its uot. over on~thirtl or one..1ud£ ot w·h at it ·, ,·~s, pre, ion< to the
.strike~
QI ls tbere ou·l l one otlice open . '::So;. there ,a re several bianeh
offices 01ien now, bot for two week aft r the strike there wer,e none, l
believe. I cannot iuform. you :as t.o bow mani are open t-o-d-~_:y
,Q. Is tbe11e any bing mo,r e that son d,e sire to stat,e to the 0.ommittee:
on 'this su.~jeet ·.- A., No, sir; I think I have said au th.a,t I wish to
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17'7

BELATJ,O N8 BBTWEEN lu\BOR AlfD C'APITAL..

B .. W ,. lJB·R e.worn and e,, 3mined.

By· Mr~, OAL,L

:

Qne tion~ Plea1se ,stat ·. your resid .nee . nd ,occupation and ·-111ere y·oa
:are em:ploy . d ..-An: wer. I am, a teJ. · :grapber; I reside in Philadelphia:
1 w·1s ,e:~1.ployed bv the W _··tern Union 'Te-Je! ra1,,h CompanJ" before the
strike; I ha¥e· b en in. t'heir emplo almos:t all the time for·twelve years
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vast,
- ·Q.. A:rc son a member of the Brotberhood of ~ .l.egrap·he1~ ·J --A.. I

am ..

Q.. w ·h at com_pe11·.-. tion were yon gettin.,g at the tim.e of the strike tJ\.. e,~eu t1- ~-6 v : do·n ar - a D1ontb.1
&

Q. \11~ha,t i,s the average C"1mpensatioo o,f telegraph operators, taking
the good aud tbe bad tog,e tber I Tell u_s fi1\ t 9,-,ha't is the highest ra'te
Jta1d. ■1-A. Tb. highe t rate paid tn PbiladelphiL w
·so a m.o nth and
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tbe low'e!i 130. Q. Tbe compe · sa_t~,o,n ranges, then, from ,'130 to 180 a month; is that
(",am11ensation sufficient, for 'the reasonable and comfortable suppo,r t ,of
a man !-A.. It is no,t for ,me. I am.a married mau with tl\tU ebildren, an.d
it takes .1no1.· th.an that to support my fa,, ,· ils, so that I am compelled t.o

work extra t.o make ends ·mee,t .,
Q. Bow , ·ucb e .tra wor.k d,o ,yon have to dot-A.. Just,p,revious to
the trike I w,acS ·w ork·i ng e .'tm time in the Associ ,ted, Press,otlice., which
brought me in $2 a day ad.di.tional, and it took all of that to k,eep me
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go,:og.
Q. Bo,w many ho·ors, did. yo·n wo-rk.'1 --A. For the Associated P.ress I
· . nrked frorn two to four hours extra, and they pai.d m,e 50 cents an hour
i'o r tbat ex't ra work.. Tbe We~tern Union ,Ce,mpany. pays o e·x t · work
aeconling to the salary· the man is, g-e· ting, and that m,ade my ex.tra
work tbere .,b oot 37 cents an hour.
Q.. What are the a't@rag,e hours of labor 1-A. The .a verage is about
M"!Ven bour,s on the niuht .three and ni'He hours on tl1e ,d - y force.,
Q.. How mauy hours did yon ·w ork '! -A. Seven bouE at :o igbt and

11iue hour.s,in the d• yti.m.e, Wben we work,ed over set·en hours at ni_g ht
,-.;e vle·r e n,o t eo.rnpeu-sat.ed · ·x tra, as they, &re in New York ..

,Q. l\"ere you a daJ or a uig.h t ,o perator 1-A. .· nig.b t ,o_p erator..

,Q.. How do ,y ou live; do you .r eut u house t...-A~ Yes; . r-ent a house,~
I Ji,,,e oo theo. t~kirtsofthe eit.f,,so 'tha.t ",~takes me45 minutes 'to go,out
to my house, and. the rent I :paJ i , ,$ 15, a ruontb.,, maki.ng that item, w.i th
.· . a•·-fare (Wh1c9 I oount as rent), a Jitt'le over sao,a month
Q. · ou could. not _g et as good a hon _e, I suppose,,, any nearer to 3roar
'j)la-oo of bosi oes t-A. No., sir_; wb,e n. I fill t wen' to Philadel pbia I
't:r1ed to aet near·er 'to the offic~, but my rent tbere · -aa ,1147.50 ,·· month~
Q So th.at you. pa-y ,130 011 of J;our $75 :p e,r mont'h for rent.. No:w,
. , ,a t does it- ,eo t to feed your family ·-A.. On an aver, , &re · esthoate 'it
at '110 .. ·w·eek.•
Q~ . · ec-onling t.o your stimate, then, 3-ou have , . .: fl'" little J. .ft for
~lothin,g and othe,r ex·pens _- ·t-A~ v ·ery little; tbe. . ,]ary itself would .o ot
keep me, ud · y tam:m]y.
'Qi Do 3ron consider yo1iri"" lfa rep seutative,man ofyourclaMof'tele.g raph operato,r s- ~ A Well, I aw consi'cj,ered what is,called a fi,1·,s t-class
,open tor.. The manager of tbe Philadelphia offl,ee told me t.hat I was
12 C
(5 ,LAW,),

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BELATJONS ..SETWEEN LABOR Jlffl, CA.PIT.&.'L ..

worth a good deal.more a~ a telegra:ph operator ·th n I waa. ,g etting, bot
·bat ·w .as the '' gilt-ed.g ed'' salary there and h.e could .not do any better
for me.. In 1873 I was ,g ettlng
a. month and iu 1883 I ,g et a75 a
mo,ntb .
Q~. Can y,ou u,&e the f 7'5 a lDO'b.th '"Thich yot reeei've Dow ·010,r ,e ad,-an-.. .
tageonsly for our .s up port than l~o-u eon] _ use the - :85 · bich you .r-t-1-·
cei.ved te year , ago _-A. At that time. I a · a 1,·ingl . 01an.
Q.. But will .7a a n1ontl1 n.o\l go ~.s fa.r ·i u ,s upporting yon and ~our
family as the com1tensltti1Jn wldch yot1 thEn reeeived vrould go at that
·time · -A. No ;· I ,lo not uotic _ a u·J· difference in the , os·t of 1iving., unl _ · it is .b a.t rc.nt - bav - ~on up s.i nee then ; bu· at tha.t t.ime I did not
ha ,T1@ to ~ <ot a hou
- o that 1 don't know .a 11 :rth in crr •r:so all , o . t bat
point ,' i'tb. certe in ty ~.BJ··
. 1\lr~ A D Ir-H:
._ow man.r da.vs e - tr.a did yuu work du1·i.og the yea.rt- ·... Jt 1s
l I a 1·d. to_get. a·· that. _ I ,v,o rked e -.- ra e'-'"ery c.h auoo. I got.
Q . ,v'bat v.rould be _,-our avera.g-e eamin_g from extra work 1' A~ I
\\·oultl pr(!ba.bl;r ma ~--_. · i85 or 190 a month ·w'i h my regn'lar -_ alarr _·n d

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extra -·- ~ark.I]

Q, ·,; as the arr~ ngei · eot io 1.813 the sa.m.e in tba; . re ·_·. ect .- · in 1883 ·f
·- \ ~ I think it w·aR. I don' . remember·, how-ever,, the extra pay at th t
ti1n . .
·
Q. , Did you ·m ake the m.e. nmnber of h.oun in l 73 that ,-~ou make in
1883 t-A. Jns.t about.
Q. Nine hours a day t. . . . .A. .. Sev;e n hours,for ni,g bt wo,rk and. nine hours
for day work~
Q~ I . tb.a . tb·· mle ,a llo ,e rt e ,eoun.t ry·f-A .. Yes,sir~ lnNe·w York
the operat,or.s are pa.id extra for· anythi'ng over· seven b.onre.; i ~ Phil _delpbia. tbey are uot.
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0 BJE:OT,S 0F T,I IB BRO·T BE.BHOOD· AND THE ,.·.~ BJKIL,
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By the Os·AI.R ,n .:
Q. Yoo reside in Philadelphia; are ,yon. conn~t.ed. with ~he managemen _of this st.r ike 1-A. ·-·.es, ai"r; I .am. one of tbe execntt -e commit,..
tee.
Q. Of how JDany members d - 'that oom:m ittee oonsist 'T -A Seven.
'Q~ PJea·. . s. ate -.. .our k o,w]edge of the origin and th -develop·m,e n . or
the strike dow~n to the pres.e nt time.-A Tbe .f irst assem,b ly of the
'Brot.be·r bood was f.o,r med i·n Pit.t ,_ burgh about ei.g ht ·- •-n mouth.s.. a.g o,.a.nd
mom that time it r.aduall .. · d.e _eloped ·o ·t1l now we ha_-· · abou ·. - 150 assemb,1i·es throughout the nited Stat · - and Can~a.. T_b · ·p rime o~·i~ tt
of ·t he men in oo binin ,. I sbould.judg ., wa ·. ·the k.nowJedg,e tba they
were: qnietlv ·b ing ·wor.~ted b · the oompa , - graduau,~gr,o,wiug downward as to th.e sa.l ari -s antl g .neral · eatm. nt, 'O tha · 'it w· _n.,P.ee ·sa.r y
to comb in,e for p ir11ose' - of ,s:_1f . p·r-o·· ection. One of n1y p,rincipa1. o·Qjects
;_,n joining th.: ortler v.·.a,~ to brin · about, eo-operati.v•e tele-g rapbing among
the o -eratol"8 tbem~el v·e -..
Bv
.· ._.- ."L~,o_i"_,"DG-•E :
, l\r_r.,- G
Q. \Vill YOU .'" .x pla.1.UJO' .r idea of tbe ·11iod.u.s ,opera:1ul:l, o:f t..~~operc1tiou i.u
that ·b u .- ine s - - ... )ly idea .a .' thatthetele,g raph operators.s:b,onld, for
one yelrror t-W'O ~-ea1·1.. as the case ·m ight .require, dupos,i t in a gene1ral fu d
a 1suffici.ent • mount of mon~~~ per ea_p·t« to enable the·m. to, JDak.: a :t art
iu b 1ildi.ng a Hne of the Io - n. and fr.om that beginning gra<lu . Uy _gr-ow
u.p ·1ut,o a foll ·fte<lged te egmph.e.ompaDJ~ I considered 1 hat whe1--e theo111

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BZLI.TIOB8 BETW.EBN J.,A.BOB .ABD CAP'l Tllib

179

erators,·themselves w,ere engaged in the ·b usiness tb·e y woul~ take a much
1

·more :lively initerest in 'it and do better work; .a nd they would get better
p~ . out of it, as they would ·not have to paydividendso-n watered stock.,
1

but wou.]d receive ·t e wbole ·pr-oiits of the· business for themselv't~s. ina
stead of having th.· m takeo by· 1niddlemen or out-Siders. I was 1ny
hope th.at· that \VOltld be the ·re:sult of the organi1za;tion of ;·b e Bro ,ber•hoo I,, but I think th··"t the nutin ,object of the· majority of the ·m n in
joining· it ·wlt.S simply protection a:erainst tbeir em_plo3 ers.
B, . t'he. CHAIR~IAN •·
Q, You :..·y· '' simply 1•rotee~ion against tbeir employers ,;·;·,, tha:t ~x .
11,r,~·s· ion would seem to imply·that the,employers,·were pt1rsoing·a hostile.
·p.olicJ'' towards the o-perators; do yon mean to 'be. so nn.de·rs.tood. -A.
Yes, ~i"r..
Q . If so, w·ill l oa, state · hat facts y·o n have as, a 'basi1::1. for that , taten1ent or belieff- ·... Well, their y; _tem.a.tic. r,ed:oeti.oos -for· tl·e I~ st teu
l ea:rs h ve brooght · be sala·ries., down,1and t,h :.Y have 'been _gradt1aUy
growing down , verJ year; for· instance, ii I sb.onld. take tb.e place o,f
an ,op rator w·bo, n.ad been g-ettin,g 180 a m.onth., the company· would
,expect me 't O tak,e l "t at e,.s a !fIOD~h ;· a-nd _in t~ t way ·t b -~
r·ha,-·e brought
salaries ,d,o,wo right along.. W,e an considered that tha · wa .· thei1· 1set·tl, · il po'li,e y, and tha;t we really bad no other m ean s of be1,J)in g ou rsel\~Ps
;i; "'
1-,. ,,._ .,,..,,.
L
·h
- at was
e·x:,eep· b,y com'b.1n1ng,
~use e-very uew t·· e1-~grapu.
company to,rg.a.nized w •· alm.,o · . t , immediately swallowed up the '\ .·estero . nion
·C ompany, 1~avin.g us all attheme_re:yof that one emp-10:yer In our·own
intere.st, the~efo,re, i't seemed ueoe< sary to ·m ake some com.bin d effort
Q. . .. nd tlutt, one emJJilo,y er giv,e s uniform. ·. ages t'hrongbou ·. tb,e
,oou.utry ·f. . . . .A ~-:-c 01. e.i r~
Q. H,o .. · i :.t,be faet in re_g ard to that n1atter of nuiformity of' wa,g es!A1 They ,discrimin:-.te·. For i·n,sta.n 001 a ma.n in Philadelphia would get
on1.y 175 a month., w'hile the Pittsbu·r g·h man at the oth• ·r · end of the,
~ame Ii e, . orking to Pbilade]phia, would get ISO or perhaps 190 a
month, both me doing ·. be sa·m,e ·work,
Q. Why is that 'T.......A.;; T .b at is wh.· t I don't on.d e·-_. tand.
Q. Is livzoa.· ch ·,a.p er in PbiladelJJ•b ia !-A1 T · e co1 .· pan),. .· laims that
it is; but I have b.ved in both places and I do ·o ot think so; I lived in
Pitt .bargh for ei,g ht years.
·Q.
'the charge made to t'be ,p ublic fur the serrioo less in Philad -1..
phi. :· thain it is, in Pittsburgb t-A. No, .sir..
·Q. Tben,. doe -, the company regulate th, · co·m:pe·:o.sa 10n by · ,"•ha-ti 'th
men can li, ·e on,,or ·b:v th,e vat.o.e of ~thei~ ser,, ~u:,es f~A. They c .· rrt· in)y
do not regula.t .· the ,com·pensati on b··.· the value of th.e services 'ttt, · b.e
company, beciuwe t-be man at, the Philade.lphi _ end does exactly the
·- ame work as, the.. ' rt.sburgb mau •.
Q~ ~h .· n you think the eomp.a,ny ·f ind out ho,v·cbeaply a man can live
and reduoe hi-~ p~y grddua]ly to that· poiut f - .· ., Either tliat, or el.se it depend:-OD. th. · abil.i , , of the local maua ,e r toseeure .m · n cheaply., I ,d on't
kn l)W how the);, do it, hlt t the fact is as I sta.te.. :·hilad·e lphia salaries
have alw.ay·. "t,een les., than Pitt.sborgh sa·1anes. It seems that ·t he,
further w~srt yon go · be. bigber the · .alari.es are!!
Q.. ,. y it be because ther . ·•s m.ore oompetit1on for situations in the
Eastern citi,e s ·,ha.n in places. fnrth ~r \\7 e-st I-A., I doo·' t know . ut tha;tis
it; but I reaUy cnnuot explain ·w hy t'be sah1.ries 'iu bdadelp'hi.ai , bould
be J,e ss thau. in Pittsbur,g h ..
Q,. - ·ow ar,e the salaries. in Philade.lphia a . compared wi.th ·those in
New ·. r o,r k --- · ·• The Halarliea in _.ew York are higher than · hose in
P.hUadelphia..
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BELATIO "'8 BETWEE'N 'L ABOR A.ND CAPITAL.

Q, Is t'be oost of living llere higller t-han in PhUadelphia t-A. l go ·•
,. is,;
.
I~ ,d- o~,,t_· k-.:now ·mue'h· a . . u t· t·h
t o."f I"'
"'
. ,,,..
1t
· , e •COR,.,
_.1v1ug
1n
~,,e:w Y· or'k., b.o t I
,s hould judge t'ba't it- i1S hi,gb .• r than in P'bila<lelpbia.
.
Q,. Bnw doe·. thr- pa-y in .PlllUa(lelphia .a.nd. in N ·~w _ ork compare with
·t h · pny in Boston. ·. -A. I cann~"t say·; I dou't kuo,r. wba·· the pa~ in
Boston is.
Q.. Thi~, iRi a. (li~,re sioM. You havt~stated that your 1niuc",pal reason
fhr·j oinin ~ fb . Brotherhood ,vas to briu,g abont the for1na tion of a coO ( >'· l'ati ~ tele,g1·apl1 corn1
pa.n,, ~:· -A . ·. ·e , sir; I th.ink · he majority of the
u1e11 j oioed 1·b e order for th l)D'l pose of prot.ect.ing themselve ·. agai ns.t
the companl, bnt I also thuik b ,m·b eli · ,r·etl th.at ·w·hen this.bi l of griev·au~t s. was p,rese.nted to the company tbeir committe would .at ltast be
re~ei,.,ed, and tbat a chauoe would be g1v·e u for a f!Om1promi·se... l kn,ow
that "'as mJy own idea - I ~ally did not t lliuk there ·would. be _strik&
I thonght we could get together and taJk the matter ove·r an_~ 1uak·e a
compromise,. soniet.h in~ t~a,t ·w ould be &1tisfactory· to both sides; but
wben we presented. t. H~ bill it ·w as uot rer~ived at all;, we were ro ·p ulsed;
and of cod.1'88, there was. n.othin:· ·else for us t,o, ,do bnt to .strike.
h
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By M-r. . GEORGE:
Q. Or to, submit ,-A, Or to submit.
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B,y the CH:Am AN ~

Q. Ba·ve yon an th·i og f;urtber to state '1---A... Just ,o ne poin.t. . I h.a.ve
11,o ti ed t.ha.t e .e·m'l .times you ha,~e .asked questions. i.n regard to men
d. scbarged for joiuing the organization. lo 1877 ;. desired to ,ge.· o,n.t
o'f the telegraph business, as. I though i . was not suita-ble for- a life
business, and I,.. ·en.t to Philadelphia to study dentistry~ I eogaged to
exchange wit-h ,a. man i:n Pbi.lade11lhia (I was..at fba.t ti~e · -!Jr-king in
Patts hnrgh), a.n d be ea.me t.o Pittsburg·b,, and I went to Ph1
i1adelvbia to
work u~gbts, and after my substitute bad been 10 Pitt~burgli some
1uonths ·11e wa.s discharged,, and the only reason ever giv,e,n for, it· was
that he wa·, endeavoring to orga.nize the Jeagn · in Pittsburgh among
th> 'telegrapbers6 He was (liscbarl{ed th. ·:re and of eour1se that lost to
n1e my .pos1tion in Pbila.delpbia. But they found out that they could
not prove the- cbarge against- bi u1, and tbey allo'\\"" ed hi'm, after the lapse
of two or tin~ w,eeks,, to go hac·t and wo·r k .· xtr.a., 'but n1y s."tuaa·on ""as
gone. 'T hey dlscJJarg d bhn stu1un.En1 -· y at first, becaa.se they .aid be
wa . trl7iug to or. auiz _ a lfa,gu ,. a:ud that I ft u.1 - out, althongh., as I
1say, he wus after,ra11,;l ' aUo\l·ril to go 'back.. When they disebarged him
't b ·., . . told him he w·o ul,~l ht ))Uf, on the bl.ack-1.i '.·t.
. I!!,

By tb.e CaA1RllA ·i :
Q~ You · ay th y u tohl h hn b · "\\~01dtl. be JlUl on tb black~ l:i st :;, 1-A.
y , , 1r·.
.
_ . _
Q. Do 3,ou ·m eau tha~ the offic1.als of tl,e oon1pauy r&l?o,grli.zed th ·· existence of a '' blaek •l.ist" '- A- I ,Shon Id jndg,e so fro11 that
Q . . \Vho toltl. 'him that be. wo•nl.d be .1,1ut, on : be b1ack,,.J ist 1 Who rep-re ented the company, or J.>u·r uorted -to rep,r e~t it-, in. ~aking· that
sta;tenu~i'D't · A. That I don't ·know,., '!,bat ·_ as the. r port 'that came to
me th:nn them.a _·; that he w·as diseba:rge,l bee· ttse be •. as. endeavoring
to 01~.g an i z · a l agu
Q. You s11e;ik of th:is blac·k-lis.ti1~g practice .a. a ._e ttled 1:ac·t f-.A. lt
is 1--eoogni.zetl as an: insti'tntion of tlr cumpa 1y ·b y all operators.through.1

1c .

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RELATI,ONS BETWEEN LA.BOB AND' C'.lPIT'AL~

181

o~t tb.e country ,generally,. lf a

man does aoyt_hi'ng that is partieol~,Jy
obnoxious to, the \Vester.o ·u ni.o u Com1Jaoy •-· is. pu:t 011 the bJack--liert,
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and th.er-e_is, quite a number of operators w,bo oould not get positions
with tbe Western Union at aU!' heCi,~use the . a,:r eooo .idered as 'b eing on
·t he black-list
Q, For ,,.. l1c1 ·- :reasons do ,, on ttnder ! •t aod tbait a 'm an is tllaced on tb.e
black-•ist ..-A. I do uot k1tow that auJ· of th _--, oflicials of 'the oo.1npa.uy
ever told. any 1,ersou directly' 'th at he was pot ou the black li ,t ; but I
kHow of a case in P'ittsburgh, a n1an who had to work for 'two months
interceding ,t"H.h tht SlllLflHt :nd ot- at that p]ace, w·h!O in 'turn intercelled for hi.u1 ,,,.. i t,h bi - , u perior, , to ge't him off the blac.k~'h s,t .
Q~ 1 an ~ee, of' course, tha•_in emplo_yin_
g so la.rge a nuo1be of men
he eon1pu HJ 011Us' 'Ii nd son1 e 01en who are ·iocou1 pe _ent o-r u_·wo'lt,'h y of
e11111l0~·10 u t .
N'O'w, d.o yon. understand that the black-list ·i I lud _- s
any exee·1•t men 1\·ho are found to bA inco-UJ petent or otbern~ilse unwort.b _',· to be e1nploy·,e,<l _-A~ l tb1nk it includes all _,ho are ob-noxious,
to th · L~1npauy; \\:babJver t.heir o.tleuse ma.3 b •
Q Do y.ou co11sid. r tba t goocl w·ork men, ski Hed, cou1 p ·-toot, ho e,, t,
and t1~11s,t worthy, :a re liable to be placed on 'tl1e bla.-e·t -Jist si.mply a.ud
on l,y b .cans - t-b -y have joined a truilles union or l,e ague
A. y ,(I , ·i.r; t.bat• is my 'b elief' I firmly believe th ·.t this :m an I bave
1nentioued. w'l10 relieved u1e at Pitt ~.burorb ·was dischar,g ed for no other
rea~ou.. He wa~ a fi.rst-ec]ass operator,, reliable in every way, and was
so recomme,n(le(l by tbe Philad · lphia mana,geF h fo:re the exchange ·was
...,..,.11 ·mnue..
;
Q~ under ta:mul you to wean tba,t ~ man wbo is placed. on the black-:H st i8 pursu:ed from one offl.ce _'to another, wberev,e r he m.a.y happen to
,s eek e,m plo,: vme~t -A. Ye...~ sir,; and he is u.nable to p,r ocure a sitoa
tiou with the Western Union Compau~~auywbere once he h.a _ been
1d acetl on. tbe b 1act-Ii t..
Q, Do you noders,t and. tba't ,_ bat p,raeth}e of b,l a.ck-l1sting i.s confined
to t 'b e We . tern Uniou Telegraph Oompa'Dy ·f -A I ,Io no-t -know,
Q.. ·.- -·ou do-o't•kn,ow whetber ,r ailroad c_orpomtioas, iron ,nanufae,turiers,
and other :ma-nu1,•a ctur rs and ·c orpo,r atious resort to the practiee t:._A.!1
I cannot say~
Q. D·o you. kuo\\ of anJ ot.her partieu1ar, instance 'iu addition to ·t his
one tbat you ha,. ,e m,e ntioned !-A. Notte, that _ eould have -·._ ny ,s how
of Jl,ro,·iug. I know of a 11om,b er from hearsay.,
Q,., Js, tbere any thing, else yon woulil like to s.tate o,n this ge·-era.I sub,.
ject t- A.. .c o, ,sir.
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A · BI~:RATION~

By Mr. Pu,GB :

Q., s tbe·r e

aUJ' ml. - of yon.r o-r gani:i•tiou forbid,d ing a referen.ce of

your claims to _arbitm·tiou ~A,., No, s.i r; th.at is on,e of the -things we

aim at Q. -_-ias any _offer or an_, , d ·mand been made that thls ,oontre,,·er,s y
,s hall. be ,sn.b mi~ to arbitration t·- A. W ,e made a kind of an appeal
to ·t he Westt ern U11ii.on. people that something o,f that kinll s·h ould be
doine, bu.t, tbere was uo chance .f or arbitration.,, 'b ecau . e tb,e Western
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IT niou officials .-o-n ld not receive. 'U S at all.

·

Q.. Yon have done nothing ex,c ept to ,submit your de,mand 'for a change
·i n tbt'- terms and condition _ of your employ:m entt Y-ou have never
ottered to submit _
y our d·itrerences with tbe,company to &'rbitration under
the laws of 3--·oo.r orga-oization, I onde·r atand 1-A. We hav,e not 'h ad he
oppurtno,i y

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BEL.lTIO'NS 'BETW.EEll LABOB 1liD CAPITAL.

Q Do, you nn.derist-and that thA Western Union Telegraph Oompan,y
wo·u ld ·r efuse t-o submit anything at all to aTbitr.ation jO n accordance
our ,o,r ganiza.tiou I-A. My onclerstandi'n.g is th.a·t; t.he
w"tb t'he laws of'1m
'W ei. tert·, Un·i.o n Compeny would ha ·. e nothing whatever to do wi h us..
,., Air. GEORGE :
B,l
Q, Tha.t is·, tb •oon1pauJ,. wiH b.a e Hothiug· to do wi.th y,o,n as an organiza'lio11, but onl,.y as. individuals 1- A. Th ·y , di. have nothing to du
with - u.y orga.oizet l 'hotly of 011~rators,
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By Mr. P U·G B :
Q., Tbey \l'i]I no ·. treat with you as a.- organized body·, be·t her by
al"bit■ration or otb rwise t- A . , o,. ·_ ir; although our oommittee whi,cb
1

pr sented our bill of grievances , . as comp . .·ed iu part of We; tern U iuo

oper.J;tor~ ho hud been em,p lo,y ed b3 th-e comp ·uy for many· years.
U·oe 1ae:w ber· of ·the committee bad beeu 10 their emplo, · · ud w·.as taken
~•way f ~ th.ein by th.~ Brtltberhood for .·h e purpose 4?·~.or,i ;pnizinJ, and.
1

wb1cb JS eo,, ·s..i dered
to b , reall.Y tbe W esb)rn Union;i, Although thait •committee w '. s ,c omposed of fir e Western Union men reall); th.e company ·would have
no,thin.g to _do ·wi.th them,, ,c laim.i ng that ·they 'h ad no right to re.pr-esent
au.other represented the Nor tb.western Company,
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1ts mpl0;y~ ,.
Q. Do you know w'b at th.e ,eompan. . based that ilenial upon t What
rea .·on ·b ad t.h ey· for denying the ·au.t bority of the oomtnitfee, o•r fur asaerting that you. w re not au.t .borized. to represent their ,em:ployes 1-A•.
OolJ· that General Eckert _1s.&1d that h.e did not k0iow us-was. not .opnw1i
"l'l!al,w au,
a ·m. a,
It.' w-o.
. . . -..Jeour
•lli .A,01. of
..... ..,fu,
·n..'" ,,il,..,....::11
neq
·.· .:. I,..,,,.
. . . lL'!'""·.AI to
~,1..;;;;.LJ
_ gQ
. ·..
·. ·r
. · . U1U
..
. .u..,,
p ~e.u
· g tL.
lA;,U, .Wl·tL
. : UalDt
l.ffli ,u
1 ·

excuse to get ou:t 0:f recognizing our 0 rganization"'
Q,. Your :i dea is that the Weste-ru U nio·n Oomplny prefers ·t o exercise
i. _, power -over individ.uals rattier _ban to deal with yoor organization I - A. Yes,. sir~
Q.. It prefers to· control you in detail rather than. to treat with y·on aa
au organizati.on t- ·.·. Yes_
By the CBAIKH..lli ·
Q~ D ·o Jon know how· y,our oompe·11sation as a olaa com.pares with th,e
eo.1opensatioo of clerk ,in. res:1K>nsi.·b1e poattJous ·i n m.e rcantile houses,. in
broke:n ' offices, in lawyers' o ces,and the like,,. iR Philadelpbia o,r here tA . . 0nly i-n a g·ener.al ·way. I am ona'ble to give you an,y definite i.nform:ation npon tbat su'bj,ee·:
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N'O, IBT'lllID.&TION BY ·T BE BB·O T'B ERBOOD.

Q. From time· to time.we h ar that,your order eonstitu.-te.s a, monopoly
of labor ; what.·h ave you to sa~ in regard to tha't t-A. You mean ·no,v
th ·. Knig·b ts of Labor:.
Q. Wen, :so far as the telegraphers,are concerned, the Brotherhood of
Te.le.g rapbers. would p · .ap be open to the same criticism.- • W U,
sir·, we have. in our membe.r 1sb1p a big· major'ity of the operators of the
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L~nntr;y .

Q:. Suppose;a 'telegrapbe·r does,not belung to your order, do yoo adopt
a,n y special po'lioy _~ :w ards im ~, do you disen·minate ag.a inst 'h im ·I
Is he 'b lack listed" in auy w•y by your org.ani.za. io- , or put at a di .~
1
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advan7tage ·f or not belonging to your order I-A,. _N e·v er aa yet..

We,

_
have; never ·~ xerei~ any _n.gh't,or action of that k~nd"
Q'. Tbere i8 .n otbin.g 'in the r,nies o·f your order looking to ·t he exercise

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BELA.TIONS BBTWU!f. LABOR AND CAPITAL.

of rmy 111.Cb. :a ction 'l~A. No, sir; only where, a man ,d oea something
·t"hat is,.aga101,t , the J~w of the o-nler, ·t~eo. he_,e a• be expelled.

Q. But I am speaking of ontsi,de telegraphers who hav,e1never be...
longed to ·t be,order;, do yi00. directly or iDdirectly i'oterfe·re, or ,doea y"Oor
1 ·" 'te
. t10,
~
. d.
. t er.1ereo,
~
"',1,'L , t- h
-0rgantza·
n coo te
..·,m p$
_:· any· d•·
- 1ree,t oi- in
· root 10
ce, ·w1w.a
,e
·f reedom of' action -o f m en. not belon_
g iog to the r0:nle1r. t-A.. In no way
at all. We ba,v e oe . ··eroontemplated -uc:b a-e tion..
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Io. the actual working· of -our ,o rganization have _y on known th.at
to be the re _alt 'i n any case - A~ . · ,d on't know of a, ,s iugle! case of that,
ti ,d..
Q.. W ,h ait efforts, if ,any·,,tlo you ,r esort to to incou.ve·nieoce the Western
Uuio-n Company ,o rtopre ent it from o:b·t ainin.ghelp to tak.e the places
of 1hose wbo,b,ave struck' !-A., ··. re t 'e ·-ort to noth'iJlg l'ite intimidatio,o
or a.nytb1o_g of tba. · kind..
Q ~ What is tbe fml extent ,o f the ,DJ1,eans1you. ,do reso:rt to,, if any f1.· • The only means arA that if w,e ea.n get hold of ,a, man. who wants to
go to work fo,r the West• TD. Union, a.n d if we M 'D. present on,r sid,e of t.b,e,
use to him iu such a ligbt 1' ha;t'b e W'i ll refose to go to work for the (,omp ,u y, we take Id~ wi'th us,.
_
Q. Is a ma who pro1)0ses to go t() work for, the eompany ostraci.ze4,
-0r in auy way macle to feel 't hat be_is, less of a ma.o, or that 'for auy rea1s,on be ought not to ta'k e tht= employ-m,eut.,, altboogh h,e thinks on t'he
,,,bol -· that i i:s bi dttty to h iimse1f a:nd. to his1 family,. o · to others,. 'to
tak ·f t .,.- A. I don't k.now bow it wi'II be after· tb:e stri'k e is over., Pre·vious to the strike,, ho . e·,re.r, there ,was, no sueh action, lt 'may bet-hat
tile men. ill. feel imb·trered against someo:f ' those wh.o are -now work·in.,g
.a gainst us, bot I hal"eno idea thataoythinglikevio1ence wil1l .b eo · ,e;fffl
t,o au~r one. We may cut oft· so-m e o-f them from our fri~ndship-,1 kn.o,w
I w-oold myself-but there 'Will be nothing in the way of intimidation or·
. io'te:nce~
·Q, Yoo. ,say you would ynu_nelf; wh.y would :rou !' Yon seem to be
a . fa.i n1in,ded g,en.tlem,a n.-A. Booause those gentlemen are bs 'tbe1T
action no,w helping he w ·e stern Union Oompar13,", a,nd of oonrse in doing
tna,t ·t h ·. v .· . r-e ·w orking against me as. an operator, w·ho is trying to ob-_:_is
;i; ng1
,. 'b.f,,:,,;
I~'
t au1 .h
·1 ,a.
,., yous h011,'Jlrd
·. ·do an_y th_.1ng· a.g ain,-st: me. to
_ , tqiure me in
.a ny way, i't wonld be natural t'hat, I sboul.d not oousider you a friend.;
and i.t isin. th.a _'l ight that I r-egard those who ar-ew,orkingfor ,t be 'W ea~
em. Un~on Co~p-~ny now, ~cause the grea;t majority of the opera.tors
are on the , trike-the first-cJa,,_:' men.
Q., Yon. tb1uk, then, that the s~~~- have the mal good of teleg..
raphe·n , gene·raU.:v at heart f-A. 'Tbe~e is :no g_u.estion. aboot ·t hat at,all.
Q. Ra: e ).rou, anytb.i og -lse to. say ill tha,t direetion t-A. No, sir; I
'believe no·t.
Q~ Ha . e you any 'k nowl,e d.. - , as an orde'r , or have 3ron. penonal kno,w l. ge, of any ac,t s of violence directed a.g ainst the p.r operty o· the W el~
em Union ,com11an,y, the cutting of Wires,,or any·oith.e se acts of vandalism and violence of whieh we 18 ee ,a ecounts ·i n the news_paperg t-A., ·•o,
sir .; on 'tbe· con.t . ,ry, we have ad.Vised a.gai.n:st soeh things rigi ,t ft,om
tbe start., I~ the ver:y comme,uooment of the strike, knowing · hat v:revioos 1S trikes had res11l'ted. i.u the destruction. of property, it ·w as :adopted
as the po'Hcy of our ·'._xecuti'v,e ,c ommittee to coonitel against :a ny d.~ ·true--,
·,on of 'p ropeTty or any ,on·tawr-nl acts whatever.
Q Th.at , as t'b eir poi-iL~.
· ba · b.a been their 11,r actioo ,siucc0 the
s,t rike was. inaugurated 'I -A.. The policy ~as ·J,een, carried, out in practice. I d.o not know of a single ,6 3St'i of the des,tro.ctio·n. ,o f p,r operty.
Q. I t,h i.n k, I saw , ome. notie16 of a -rewa.nl being offered by the B,rot'h.1

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Ii

1. 8_4-·_.
--

"D·
- ~J1
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- . 1AaTio
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. .:. _·' :..:.·NS
.. _:·

-

'B,. •EmffT'll:'l~N1' 111- -BOB
& ff .i&U:il - -•
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~ 'VT!i

CAPI·T
a."'
. ~..
( . -~ A-M-1

erbood for the •detecti.on of an:.. tele·g rapber w·b o committea such acta or
·viol -· nc-e !----A. 1 . a,w that rewa,rid ofter,·<l in t'be n.ewspapere" .I did n.o t
bav·,e .a.n,y official k.now1edge of it yselfi
_
Q. Do _y oa understaud it to be a fact that sne:h. an o·lfer is tnad,e, and
tba.t it is a st.a.nlliug offer T-A. I cannot sa.y whether tba·t i , a fae or
notji If the ofter w.a s, m.ade it was. d-oue 'b:Y the O'the.r memben of tbe
committee during my abseo.ce from t:he e·ty,. I h9:;ve uot been. here all
the time, and eanuot ·r,eally 1say ,,,..bether th.at i,s a fact, or not.
By Mr• .. .LDRICB !
Q. Y 011 .a.:re fan1i.liar with the·organization of tb.e T,elegraphie B,:rother·bood t-A. Yes, ,sir·.
Q. If ,y ou have no objection, please state what persons are eligible to
me1nbers ~p !-A. All over the a_g e -o f 16.
Q~ Wbet'b er e -gaged io eommeroial o·r in railroad telegrapbin_
g 1-A~

·y ,es, s,i r·,

in tbe United States,
Dave yon any· reba.ble st;;1tisties, on t·hat subject !-A. Well,1from fJtaQ.. ~ow r_a y opemto.rs. of that kind are there

tM
stics ·.. e have eeen (in : - 11eports of th · ,oons,n s two ort'h ree years a.g o)
I think t'bere.are a.b out 20,.000. I a·m not,s.nr,e a.bout.·that, however. Th.e
d.ift'e:r ent es·timates,nl'D. Dom tw,en.t y-tive to tbi·r ty thou..sand.

Q What is t'h e m,e mbership of ,your ,ordl.er to--day f:-A. Between

18,000 and 1.9,CM!Ml.
Q, How large a proportion of your mem·b ers are now out on stri'k,e t A . 1 ··b1n - w,e have be·tween eight and ten tboosaud.
Q,, How ·1ar,g e ,u, propo·r tion of tbe remaind•e'.f. are s1ibjeet to the. •o rder
of t·h e ·r othe·r hood; all of ,;them ! -.A~ Yes.
Q. Ar . there any members of tbe .B ro·t b.e,r'h.o od. ·n ow at work for the
telegraph oonapan.i.eB who hav,e _ pee· . ord.e .ed o-ut !-A. Oh, ·yes.. w ·e
ba·ve 1some fe -· deserters ·w bo refuse to obey oroen.
-' - .Id.: on' t ·- now.
__,o~v many -.a..
Q_ H
'
Q. llave yon nutde
any ,estima·re of their nomJ:,er t'-A. We have not
m:ad,e an estim . te of tbat _
yet~ Th:a t . "ill all oo·m e :i n afte.rw·aroa.
By Mr. Ptr·G H:
Q'. Whatli8 your inform.ation as to th.e pay ·tb.a t those deserters ·now·
:r eceive from ·t be ·. -estern. Union Oompan,y t A .. Ky iuformatio:n ii,.
whetbe:r i.t is reli~ble or not.I canoot: say, that they reooive extra pay at.
double rates,, .- n,cl also that th.er receive d,o uble ealariea in :Bnme eases.
Q. x ·o re pay than. wa . de.manded by the exeeu.ti.ve committee for the
·members of your Brotherbood t-A. Oh, very much more;. very muc'b
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more•.

Q. Then. is, it a fact that tbe pe·n ons now in tlle service. of ·t he. eom-

pa·u y are receiving a-s, h.igh or higher eompe.n.s ation than yon.r Brotberhood. aa.k ed the compa·n y to pay f-A. ~ My th~y .a re reoei.viog v·e ry
mo•e,h b·i gb.e rpay~ ·T here · sone man in P 'h ilad.,el1_p hia whoaete as.torn.key

for the operators retained ·in the buiJd·i ng,, who made 1159 ,e.xtra last
mouth-that is. from the 19th of the month to the end1
By· Mr· ALDRI·C B :
Q. In what. branch. _of the ~ervice are the operators ,eDgaged who ba,ye
11ot 'been ordered out t -:A . The;y ,are moatJ,y railr,oad operators.
Q,.. A.nd there ar - · ti'H some .10,000 operato.rs ·i n the co11Dtry· l.iablo
to be orde·red ont I-A. Probably oot tha·t many ,; betw,e en se·veo .a nd
,eigh.t tbousa1Hl.
Q. Aud you believe that thy wi~. obey ·t be. order of the Brotherbood
in e38@ the;y are ordered outt-A. I think they w·ould
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RELATIONS BETWEEN LABOR AND CAPITAL.

1,85

- the C_BAJRX . .
By
Q. Wh,y are th.- y not orde.r,ed to strik:e t-~ · . eJ'I, we h:ave o ·,t eAl'Delo1d ed to do that yet~
Q., Do you oonsid.e -that their ,s trikin·~: would be more p~udicial 't o
t.he pobJu; than .ro1irr,;, on. accooo·t of tb n tu..e of their eoaploymen·t. ·i n
coun · ~tiou ·w ith. the rono1111t of rail.road. trains ,·-A · . .· ell, I do, oot see
t.h,a t it ,voHld do, us 11ch good.
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'W Y ,o RK,

,J. ,O''Co:N:. o,a swor1

:,UGENJ.:l

u(l

A11g.t£8t 14~ 1883·.

.amined ..

Dy 'the ,•. 'HAIR'll.A. ·- :
Qo.e stion. P1. a·-:·· ·tate your r -._ ,idenoo an,d oocopaition.--Answ,er. I
Ii v. . in Bo ·to, ; I am a tel.e,rraph operator.
Q, .. hat is sonr conneet1on ·with the Brotherhood of Telegrapb,e rs
and wit'h th ·~-.·_· xi -ti.ng strikef--- -.· I _-m. e·h airaian of the,execnti·. e oanl
of the B ·r otberhood ..
Q.. That ex,e eutiv,e bo ;rd has the mauag;,em -o.t of tbe strike t-A. ~ ·e 1,
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Q;,; Go o an,d ell your' story in your ~wn wa iR r-e_
ga·rd to tbe: strike
and it·- eau"es.-A1 \len, I must ~
c orroborate 1-h e statemen •. Jl!ade by
le oth _.r · wituesses gen.e ra1ly, but I hav-e a few points here ·t hat I would
T'

like to call special a·t tention _to. In the tin;;t11:,Jaee, I should like to sb.o·w
/ e ,..rowth of' tbis ·. ··es.em Union -. ·e:legr-,ph Compan.y since 1866~ fRe.ierring o a, piip r.] n 866 the ,oom.p any had s ·r,380 m.ile . of poles;
i,n 188.i tbey 'b ay - · 31,060 miles of poles.
By Kr~ ALD,R IOH:
Q. From wh t are yon r.ea<lin.g those figures l'- -A. Ao offi.eiaJ ,tltate ..
:m.ent of tbe oompa-n,_- Tb'is ·1s a sroteu1,ent, ·!Omp·~Ied and submi·t ted. to
the Coinmittee on ost-Offices and Pos·t-Roads, of the Rouse of Rep:n;.
1&en: ative .' in Waslti'n.gton last .March.
·Q . By whom t-A1, By· RepreSf'Dtative Bin,:bam.,
Q. lu. behalf t.f the company 1-A. No, str.
Q Ba e you any ·k n.o wled.,g e aa to th.e truth. or ~ 1 of that atat;e.
ment 1-A .I hav ·. n.oti
By .Mr~ P ·u &B ~
Q. Does M ·r . B ,i ng·. · a'ln g1 .- e ~ uy authority fOT· 'b i.e statement t.here·'I
Does he state from what source or sources he has collected hii . iofor..
,a tion 1- A.. T· e fac _. were ,g ath.e red by the eomDUttee of which he
wa - c'b airman a.-u d -_ ubm.itted by him to t ·e Hoose,of Representativ,es.
B,y the CBAJBMA-. · :
. Q. That 1s a ·r eport of tb ·. · committee, is "t 1-A.. Yes, sir ; a report
, ubnlitted ·b:v _',-_... ,,reseulative B'ingham, tb,e ,c hairman of the commiltee.
raea<1·1n1,~] In 1866,t~eeo~panJ _ha~ 1·0,685mil.~,of,wire;
1~2 -t'!Jey
had 37 ,368 DMles of w~1re.. In 1868 'th · y bad 2,200 offi.ooa ; 1n 1882 they
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:!n

bad 2,068 office•·..
B,
·r. PUGB:
Q. If there. wer,e five wire';'. from. here to Bo ton, would. yo1
a ,c onnt the
l,e ngt · of e&eh in snc·h a statement as that 1-A. Each. win is, couated.
Q. Then if ·t here -.e~e :ft,..,e ·wires between here and Bos,t on, th.ose wires
wonJ,d .r epresent iu yon statem.ent,:five times, the dista,nee,from. :here to
Bo ton T-Ai Yes sir,.
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

186

RELATIONS BETWEEN IJ.BOB, Alm CA.P:l'TAL ..

B_y 'the CHAI · MAN:
Q,.. Aud tho.ire wires, or some o,f th.em, are capable: of being worked
by tbe d,UJ)le:x ,a;n,d guad.mplex systems !-A. Yes, ,s~r; as a rule wil'eB,
worked. by th. dnpl '.i.x and quad·r uplex syste·m sareo,f the larg-e&it,gauge,
,eay N10. 6; No. a anti No. 9 g-a11ge wires ,M e very ,s eldom worked o,n
tbose iustruments.
By 1\1:r.. C · L :
t~. Can t,bey be work.ed in ·tha.-t way 1-- A., .N'O't w'it ·. aniy d,e,gree -of
sn ti .• faetioo.. The·y can be, per.h aps, for sb.ort distanoos .
By the UHAIRMA._. :
Q - Tb-en th - capaci -, , to do business i' ,much large.r t-ban is indicated
b,, · the :nrn her of wi11e,s or miles, ,o f wilr,e,, by reason of ··h•· appli:catiun
of tbetf . hnpro-ved sy tems of 01 · ra,t ing them 1-A,. Yes, sir To ,ooo·t;iu.ue the figures, in l8li6 the number of messages handled w,a s, 5,879,282;
i ·· 1882 the uu,m·b er of me ,sa,gtis b;1ndled was 88,842',24:7, In 1.800 tlu,
11eceiJ.1,ts w·ere $6.,"'.'68,92ii1.3G;, in 1882 they were 117,114,165.92• . The exp .·u ~e-s ·j n 1866, ·w er - ·.8,i'Q44-1 005 . 4:J ; in 882 'th.ey w·eJ'le t9, 996,095.,92. In
1~~6 ·the. 1u~,o:fits wer,e fi,2,,624,,9 · 9,. ·7,3 ;; in 1882 t."hey w,em 17,118,00'0. I
will submit the figures in tabular f-0rm :
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,rd ,.,,
1.1,,,,""' ,_,
~ ldbiti.
r., . ~,.
A:-..,o,w:
-· ·n~" u.,-•., .t·..""' le,.,nr_apn
- - :I!., 1••·*11.a•
fflliP.ll"a.
"__:, 1111~
- .· '""":- 1......... o.·:,
.·' · o.v-,,
•·• - ""'""'i"'
--..i..,_:m.,.r
·- ..,,
. n,.a, .t ·~e
- -.r~-Kll!li;
l '.o- "'~.,".' ' --..,a~s s-e,,1:t:, -~ pta·~ .-pm,sp, citrd profll:.8 /w ~ ·:,t.ar' nua,: JtWJ,..

··--~- - - - --- -

- -- - -

. ---

------ -- - - ~ -- -~ - - - - - ~ Pn-:Bta.

187,fl, ~ •• •. ~ ·~.
1:815
• •■, •
J.816

m

~ ~~

• •~

m •

•• •r •■• •

• •r •

. ,• • • - ~ 1

lffi . ... . -- - r -•·-

me . ~ ~ .. ~ .. ~ .. ~.
•m-91_, ••

, ,a a

. ,ai •

ii. !allli.iil l

1880~----- ~--~ -~
Wl ,■, ai i§,!!~•

'9'~~ii! §ii-

1U2:

·•-•!·•·-..

!!!!I!! -

!!!!~

Now, 'these figures sh,ow the number of offices to have been. ine.~eased

betw,e en 18fiti a.nd 1882 s1 xfold ; ·t he volume of' bu,~iness n ~arly eigh~
ibid,' ~he recei11ts .'t hreefold,J tlte e!J)ense~, ·i n abo~t the &a~ll8 pro-portion,,
and. the, profits aboat threefold. The mdes of wire . ere 10-c rea,s ed ft . efold and the miles ~f pol.e s three-fold .
This stat,e ment ·d oes not inc'lutle the late acquisitiun of ·t.he :llot-uaJl
·. , nwn.Tele,g rapb Oompany,,and ,·h ere is notbin.g in i.t -a'b ont the increase
in the capital stock of th. .· ·· .· ·es-tern ··nilon ,(}om any1 or the ine-rease i11
the uum,be.r of emp'l oy,s. T e t,api taI stook at abo,u"'f;, the time this, re-•
poet w,a~ submitted. must hav,e been a.bout tso,ooo,ODO.
'By Mril . UGB.:
.-·t 00
. _at,
· t. h :· oompa.uy
.
- - are
-.
- -,
, IVI-d
- en
- d8
-·.,_. ·u.pon I-A\i
dQ~ Th
~- ~,a•_ t. .l_.,s- S.!
·_·· c_ 'k~ t 'h
pay1ug
Y ~, . ir. We, find that tbe company are payin,g dividends,of 7 per ,een't .
upon ,180,000,000, 'b esides Jaying,away a large- amoaot ,o f pro&ta in the
sin king fund..
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

18,7

B.ELATJO~S BETWEEN L&BOll A.ND CAP T:AL..

Bv Mr. ALDRICH :
I,

Q. Oa w·bat antbo-rity .a re.yon makiu,g th.e sestatement.s.1-A" On the
ant!t.o rity of tbe olt ial.statements of ·t he eom·pany, .ei.gn,ed by ,,, Thomu
T. Bckert, act.i ng president,"· a, ,s tate·m ent for trbe. fiscal year ending
June SO, '1883 . . Vle 6ml that they ·. re payingqoa:rterly·divideuds of lf
per ceo . , an:d ha e .a surplus after doing so of 13,G45,2·42Ji0~
B,y ) ,I r . PUGH :
Q. That is over and ·hove the a·m ount divided '! -- . Yes, sir Tb·ia
Jt; the · tatement of ·t he. com·pan,y.
By the 0HAJBMA...."'1
Q. The .. urpl1u s appear, to be, abo·l't on.,e -third ,o f the net profit.
ihej di, ·m
,de t' , o-third · of tbe. net p·rofi.t , ma·k.iog a, 7 per ,cent. di:ride·n d
o-n t e eapita.l stoc-k,, a11d ·t he· b11Jauce goes to· the sioking filn d ; is th at
:i.t 1- .. tl not so understand it.
Q . I thou,g ht )'Od made the net pro·f it 19,.0 00,000 ;; o.r .·as it 1 ·--·-·. t
A . Sev;e u :111illiou dol'lan1and over.
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By Mr. GEOBGE:
Q.. Doos that state·men't show t,bat 'th-e capital stock is ts0,000,0001A . It doe '. no·t show w·h at the capital stock 'is, but it is q·o ite ,veil un-~
derstood in tel,e,g raphic ,c ircles ·t ha·t the cap-ital s.t oek is, a representa~
·tion -o f ISn,ooo,.[00tt
·. R·..il...,I:,.
....rnoaW·O·. ,"D"IT
EYH
4-U,ibllfll·
·N
. G
0
· .. ·PE
. . I - s'
. '
a,.&
. . ~ -~
- ~ ,,._ J·~·
·-" ~
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By . · ·r. Puo·a: ~
Qil. Aud. the 7 pe:r cent~ dividend. tha·t tbey pay is o-n. that atnoo-n·t tA. Yes, sir~ No-w some q11es.tiona ha:ve been as:k ed .a.b out th.e strain..
·upon a telegraph operator n.owadays,, and 'the .a·moun.t of' strain and
work. now as compared with that which Ile had t-0 011.dergo some tea
Jean, since.. I clai tba·t b'be strain is ,g reater now, not simply because
of tbe extra amon.nt of business performed:, but also on account of these
impr,o ved ap,p liances, ·t he duplex aud tJ1e quadrup:Jex~ .M y own e-x1ieri~
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once bas. taught m,e tba·t u leas tb.ose instrumeota. are placed upou the
·b est wires and giv,e u the closea·t attention, tke. ·work beoom.e.s more arduous for ·t he operator. Tbese. instru•ents are very often. t:b rowu on to

wire. whi-c. ·. requires, constant o.ha,nging or .adjus,tiog, aud iu. an office
· here. there are-si ·. or eigh:t, o.f tltese11 -strumenta the. force emplo .· ed
,., e tb-.em proper at,....,,.
.. not· · lUIJ.Clent , . t~, al
tim"
to gJ"V,
.wn ti~on. is
. -' ·1 ·_
- :·es to
.·· k eep,·ti ·em
in ~rf.ect working older i ~ so_it ofte~. happen .. ·t hat tbe operator :h imself bas to eban.g e tbe. adJu ,tmeot to ·meet a change 1n the ·w·e a·the.r,
·hieh often times necessitates an enti113 chaug,e of u balanee,." as it is
ealled. T'he m ~ority of ·t he men, as, a Fule, krio . · uo·t bin_g about that,
aod rather than disturb, the, progress of' the business they will s.t raio
every nerv·e to guess, at, about wb.at is goin.:- through; and in great
measure this applies also to· the seudiug operator. As to the nnmbel"
of messages sent now, compared · i.t h 1870, I t~1iok it; ha.a aboo·t ,dou.bled.
I am quite positive in saying that in. 1863, and from thee up· to 1870, a
first class operator di,d not send wore than fro•ID oue boudred to oue:
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hundred and twen.ty-:6,ve. m,e ssage ·. per da,_· .; while now a first-cldSS operator is, supposed to · a,odle .f ro.m th.r ee boodred t-o three bnndred an.d
fifty me . ··ages per d.ay of eigbt ·bo·n rs,. It is w,e ll.known that the eom·p ensatioo now ~ oo,mpa.red. ·wi'th th,e ~~peusation in 187'0, is about one..
ha)f']e&S; I think the av·e ~ge woo.I d be, perhaps, one-·t hird less. ;S altbos
· da".,v . ran.~
to 1125
.aries in
.
,611w'U. from 1100
.
. a
. month
.
' 'now the
. a.vema-e
.
.. - t;, .

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

BEL,A TlONS D,E TWEEN L,AHOR AND CAP .. TAL.•

188

1

,cert· inly· 1n,ot o,··e r i,80 a 1Uonth. and hart.tu,~~ that.
Ei.:lit year . ago I en.-te·red the Boston office. At that ti·me ·tbe-rP. ,T,e.r -.
uot less than ten m.e n th _r, _ ·reetd·v ing from .95 tn ti,oo a montb ~ no _'"
the.re is,just on w·bo reee "ve lll1ore. than SOO a mo-nth; be recei.ve· -t9lt
T.bere are three who re eive -·'90 eaeb, and the ·r est of~t.be ,sa.. ari ,s 1.~a uge

.firsrt --c'l as·-· salary is.

1·

f1·-om. i i''IO ii.own to 40 ,a. 1nonth.
Q.. Arn there an3 fe1nale . , en1ploy,e d there.J A.. There ar-e ijOmethh,g
',.ce.
. o.ffi
,. t be ma1u
-k : 8 \~en.teen l ad,·r operators in
1_L~
_ Q.. ,,.. but compeusa.ti.ou tlo tbe~- recetve . - .A . An a,..,- rage of about
•:·17 per 1110nth;;
Q. If ·11 y w·ere null · operato1s,, \Yb - t wou1d. tbey ·receive if ·t hey were
Jlald in .1.n-oportion to the otber1_f-A~ -,·a ny of them would receive fh~te
(!.l a-~s s1daries, for they ar-e ,.,.ery expel"t; th~J · ·would probably· rec -i ,T
eso a montll .
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.__ CBEASE OF :r:EL,E GRAPH BUSINE· S~

B,y· ):Ir. GEORGE ~
·Q." I und.e rstooll you to ,say that ;abo11 · ten ,years ago an opera.·t ol'·
con d handle o.nlyabout -,·huD ll~ed.andn fty :meMS.g esadayt- A- Fro·10
one hnnd.~ed to one hundred and tweo ty fiv·,e I ·aid.
Q. Anll l.ba.t sneh a-n - •1:.erator· now axemges from. tb:r.ee bond.red to
tbree hundred and fift\" per dav '! -A., ·y e&
Q~ lVbat .i. _, tbe 1-ei1sou 0·1· tu~ di8erenoo. ·~ twoon an operators ,t ~;t ~
p ·1ty nov,.:r to handle mes abre· and 'hi.s.,capi .c ity at that time I ,t-. it ,•~t
·tr1 bu table to the i ncre,ased facilia.es ·i11 ·tile office or to barder· ,: -01.~'k 011
the· p~··r t of tb .·· operators, or 'to bothf-A. To a great ,e -tem1· it i. at
tributable to the iucr ·-,ased ·volun1e of lnud.n ·- . In 1865, and alou.-_•_
tbeTe u.p ·t o 1870 people did uot nse the. telegr.AJ,h to the same extent
t:llia t they do ·n.o- . Tb -,u , too,, in tbose da,y· the Vir,este1 n Unioo Company w·a s ~on1p0sed, of a. different set of· m _u,. m u who ·w·· re engaged
iR. a legitimate enterprise, and who were wiJHng ·t o accept .a fair pereentage o-n t .h e capital iuv,ested. As to the. ca.pital - toek ·t here ·was, I
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sllould say, at t'b at tim.e very Utt'Je ,,.watt,_, .,, ·i n i·t proba.bl:r. Nowaday .
'tbis in fluted ca1,,i tal stock ·1nns _ deel ._re a ,d i.,r-idend in ,s ome way,, a1id
the.r,e a1tpears -~ be uo ·m ore effectual way of 1&eenring· it than 'to tak1e it
ou·t , of tbe work·ingme ,.I ·t be ope·r a,tors.. :I, bas been the systemati,c
policy •~ f itb ·-· 00D1 p :tl D)7' dur~ng the Jast ten yea.r s to reduce ·t be erpense-s
1

a&, ·much

as. po sible. I believe tha. _the ·r ounin,g ex:pen .es of tbe office

have not b -eo. ine~ea. ·ed. ·i.n th,e last, ten y _rs-I mean 1n t.eepin,g with
tb.e increased amount ot· busiu.ess 'h andled; ,on. tbe C1H~1trary, I believ,e
that th _._- e· 'J>e'Dse of" the o · - ce. bas d.oorea cl cousid.e .rabl - in. p,roportio11, .,
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DUPLEX

-ND QUADRlTPL:EX. DO N 0T' INCREASE TUI-~ OAP'A CITY OF -- X
O'P ERA.TO·R TO Tit NS-H IT
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By .af r. .P 1"GU :

,Q~ Bow mnc'h hav,e · be in,re.ntio.ns you.1s._p eak of i.nc.r e ~ tbe po,w, r
of· an 01)erator to •_._ nd 1ness ges t:_A~ Not any
Q,. Then the increase ~1) t:he. nnm1ber of messag:e s sent,DOW' -as WJJla
pared with the number ,sco·t ten s·e ars : go represen~ts an :i ncreas in the
amou.n t of ·1abor !-A. ~ Yes,. ,s ir; and! aJl the benefit of that. aco.rue!s to
the eompan,.; t e ope·rators, do mor-e _·o rk uo,w·..
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

TH · C011:PA ._ Y WOULD

An.othre r point. i

.· OT 'l "BEA.r' WITH

- DIVIDl:'"AL 0PERA OB.S~
1

e~nneet,i,011r with tbis sob:·•.· ct : It ha ,. beer1 ~~ated.

b3 · ~ome of tb.e witnes •. ·•. t'ha , tbe W . stern nion · ·ompan:; offi.·. ia]s
ba1.e 1nsinua ed that tbe .·· . oold be mlliog to treat with individ.u als in
r, :tog · rd to the grievanus, complained •Of., I claim that ·t hat, is n.ot tbe
ease.. ··o r the pa.st two y _. -_ . I have bee·n endea:v oring to get an in
creas of ,sat ry, bot al hollgh I , ~ · promoted to tbe manag~·b i.p of
the night lines in Boston I received no 'increase of pa.:y; I dr, w the
.saJll,e =salacy that I ,d · _:w ten years a,go, and I certain]y am a.s vain.a ble
to tbe company .. __ · I was th.e.n.. I~" v e applied. to · · h,e manager in Boston for· a;n mcrease io salary no I ·. ·•..· than four tim,es. io 'the 1~.t . wo
years, and invariably his ·r eply·w·a s ·0 ·t his eB'ect: , , We a~ not inereasiu,g ~alaries now ; we•Imo .. · tba · yuu. are entitled to it and shoo.bl have
it, but · ·e a:re no,t increasing· tbe e• penses of ·tbe ,c ompany'' Th:i ., ,goos
to sho,.. ·t hat the W estem, Union Tel grapb Company in thi,s emergency
would no,t treat with the operato•m, whatever contrary profe · iob the.
o,fficials - ay mak.e, now. Had they:been ,rilling to do ,s o tb ·-.· would be
in a d'iffer,e ut posi.ti.o:o from that in which we :f ind them now .
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CONDITIO'N A.ND, P . Y OP OPE,RATORS~
'

I beU. v , .Mr. Ohairm •·n,. that yon a .k ed om.e thiog about. tbe eoodi..
t1on and comp .· osation of telegraph opera·to~ . as com1>ared 1nth. clerks..
l beli.,e,¥e that our eondition is very· uufavorab],e as compared. with that
of •cletiks1 It i · well kn.owo tha·t ole·r ks in. wholeside houses, bank .· ,I and
other bu .~, ess institutions, ba,"e sometbing to look forward to 'in the
future, but 1.t i · alto,getb . r dil"erent with the telegraph operator. Ai:a1 .,
it has h ·n m~ o : l personal obse:r v.atioo tba t cle ks as a rule .abou.t
once a · •e ar reeeil e an increa e of salary I h•- v·e noticed that,to .a great
extent in ~oston, and if these i · erea ·. s are uo•t of regular yearly oocurre- ce- the clerks ar,e remem·b ered. at least ro fa.r a.s. to be given 'to
uuders.tanid that their ,s -rv.ices, are appreciated~ It is not .so with the
telegraph operator.. We ha·,.,.e oo alternative no, un · e .· ·t hl giant, monopoly, w•e have Do · b re.else to tnr.n our , ~P , ~ seek employment ,;
and fort ·•.. treason and the r,easous I ha¥e Jo t . given I am led to be..
Ji v that th · eouditi :n of the telegraph operator will appear ve·ry onflt,.,o . bly in any such comparison a~ tbat wh:ic.h yott su,g ge .t.
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A. •111·.~·:.tio,n wa .· as,k ed by a m.mnber· of t'b · •committee as, to, the. n.omber of opera ors vtho refnB ·d to, obey ·t h . order of ·t he exeer-u.tive 'b oard
to~ t.ri'ke. I do not believe that, adding those w·b o refused to o'J:N~Y the
order aud tho - who ha,·,"e turned tra.itor in this cau,s e,, b-o th c]as es together will foot ap 200 . Our m. : mbe~ .hi.P last ,J uly· w . sometbin.g like1
11,000, antl it bas .nearly doubled td:nee· that tim :.

Q Since the ._ trike -A~ Yc , ,s ir ; since the. s.trike.
B .y the CBAI&HAN ..,

Q Then, a · many Atn1ck .as belo·nged to the Brotheiihood f. . . . . A. Yes.
Q- Can it be '" ·1d that 'the action of ·t be Brotbe·r hood in striking· inG1 ed those w·h o did not belo11 ·. to it to join the strike 1-A. ,d o not
c)aini that .hey j~ined toe strike. I cla,im tba.t they j,oln.e d the Broth-•
erhood The railroad operators 8ocked to ae as ·m.em.bers.
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RELATl'ONS B,E ,T \VEE!i

LABOR, AND CAP.l:TAL.

Q Ba.d you a·n y ,c onsiderabl e number ,o f them before as members of
the Brotherhood !-A~. Y:·_. ,, sjr,
Q.. Eight or ~ioe tbousa- d operators have participate d in the strik.e,
yon tm.y T-A~ Between sev .n and ei.ght thousand..
·
B~.r .r .• GEO·R GE:
Q.. Do you mean to aa,.. that of those who belonged 'to ·:\~our order on
the 19th ot July la . and of those who have joined ,yon since not more
than tOO ba·\·e declined to, .m
oin in the ,s trik-e. or hav,e dese-r ted you after·
goiug on trike 1- .·. ~ We preseo.ted ·n o bi.U of grie,;- ances 'to, any rail-•
1-oa.,41 com_Jlany on the 19th of J a ly .
Q. I unde:rstand ·t hat fae.t~ .S o that the railroad operators were a,t,
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liberty to keep their places !-A~. Y . s,, , ir.
Q. And you say tb t ,o:f ·tl1e m.e·n that you ··x.p ooted to qnit work there
· ..ere not more than 200 who .r efn:ed 't - .A,. Yes, sirj an.d that number
incln·deB tbo . w·ho .haYe d ;Et rted.. n Boston, for instance,. e -..ery oper'nt.or· .in. the m -. :in office w nt ont excep,t oneQm ·. ·as h e a me,mber· of :roor order , -A~ Be was not..
B,J· he C-iIA'I&:MA.N ~
Q~ or tho. e wbo actually did Join. in tbe strike how mau,y have ro-1urr1e,l1to work t-A~ I shou1d say no-t mo~e than 15(t
Q,., In th entire eooutey ¥-A.. .· ·es, s.i r..
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Q~ Cao. Jon state the nom.b er definitely and accurately t-Ai No-t ac-curatel1-- ,; but we have received daily· eomm.n11ications, from. n.early all
our a~ mbres,. nnm.b e·r ing abou. 150., ,and if tli.eir reports are to be be..
l.ieve(l the figures I have given yon are correct.
Q.. You a,i'ail sours t:f of the telegr.a.ph in the tran.saction of your bosinesN, t u coun.ection ,with 'be strike 1·- .·· .. Yea, sir; to a grea-t exten:t.
By .· -r . ·ALL :
,Q. , .· hat ·w ~a your ·m embership on. the 19th ,o f Joi. t ·hen the 18 trike
be,g.au !- A . Including the railroad. operators,. ,sh,on1.d thin.k about
11.,000-be t·w·ee.n ten and. eleven thonsand.
Q.. What is your membersbip n.ow I-At I claim n:ow that our mem-b .r.ship i - 1somethill' Hk,e e,i gbteen or nineteen thousand.
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By the CHAIR .· ·. ·. :
Q., How· many I ma·1e op . mtor1s are there in the •OODD't?Y' f-A. It is
·b ard to answ·e r ·a question like· tba~ In Boston,, wbich.-may be a crite.rion for cities ,of the -ame size,, ou · of the 200 op .rator ·, ma'Je, and fe~
- ale,, there are, perha1,s. 50 lady ope;mtors9
Q. ":bat i ., one-,(J_n arter of the ·w·bole uo:mbe·r. Dft,,y ou · hink. tha ,one.
fourt~ or· one-tbir,d o:f b ope·rato.rs of the entim conntrs .r e ladie«rt..:\.~ I do.
Q.~ Ha·ve lad·i . s \\ ltJo ·h a·,:re joined the t1ike be .· n more faithful an
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the n1eu I - · .. -es . ~ir ..
Q . Ha·v .· · ·uy of lbean tleserted .-~A. I do n.ot '[k now of .a ,s ingle one.
Q . Ho·w many· nf · be fe1oale operatoi-ti ba·ve joined the strike f-A~
P rhaps. 300 or 400 '\\"OU.Id CO''\,·' r the en.tire _nnni'l>er~ _ I do not, think
there are more tbau 5.00 . 1n fact I thi "k that, w-onld he a large esti.111at0.

By Mr~ GEO'R GE.:
Q. Hav· ·. any o · the la.d ies ·.·h o belonged to your Bro berh:ood de-.

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BELATIO.!i'8 BETWEES LABOR AND CAPJT L1

cUued to join in the strike,t-A , -~ o•t one that I know of.. O:u 'the <.--0•n
tra~ .,. we found •.. g.:reat many of them ·wh.o, eame with ua after we bad
demon· trat,ed onnrelves., w·bo did not, belong to the Broth,e rbood before..
By the C11AIR.'H AN:
Q. Do yon thi.11k that if the stri'ke should, as a who~ fail, ·;here
might be a tend.,e ncv hereafter to em!pl0;y female rather tha·n male · p
era-to -.: ... ·- : • No,, s.i r ·; I do not.
Q. If the female ,o perator is as successful, and if her servioes can. be
obtain,ed atamuch lowerr te~ than 'tbe ,s ervioos oftbemale ,operator,. wh., .·
.Rboohl n,o.t the com_p a v, i~ tts, eiforts to ave e pense. wh1,ch. yon ·a · e
spoken of, ,emp1o to a. large e:x:fent hereafter fe:maJe rather than
ma,le operat.ors .:.........A .. It migbt be ,so, were. the •c a&e yon snppose th,e .rule,
bu-tit is ratl1er the ·. xooption. While there are a grea·t ma~v· s.k illful·
1,acly oper.a tors, th · num.b er that wou]d be required -to do fl .s.~ class
Tork, o·r .· ho, would · er 'become p,rofi,cient to that degree ·which the
ser ice of the co,m pany requires in s.nch m ·tters "- re1iorting s:took quotation . and tra}nsni~ttrin.g .newspaper db;,p ateb.e , w·ould be very su1 11
ihd ed~ 'Tb ·:y co~Jd uot be relied npo:u. Then,, a -a jn, t~h · ner,,.o · ,-, , y·s te1u o'I' women would not a.H.o w it. Ve·r y few· lady op.e·rators can sit;

do - n and · ·ork a ·first . class, wire fbe strain is too great. I ba\'"'e
·k nown t ~ le.g raph o ,·r a .or · in B·o too to ta· ~e .a chair . _ 5 aelook in the
p· .,e uing and ne . r · ·1eave it u tH 8 •O'clock next mornin , in the· b sy
sea . oin of tb · .rear.
Q. You t·b1nk, then,, that t'he fema.le ,ope!r ator lacks phy·,si-c al ao.d nerv-•
ou,s strength. to stand. th · ·. t-rain. t'- A.. Yes, ,s ir 1; to a _
g reat extent.
'Tb s · me view, in substanee w _s. se·t forth by th·e late pl'lesident of tbe,
_··estern Unio Compan.y, Mr~ Orton, before a Oon.g re''. ·:onal oommitte ··, w b,ere he testifiec_ · bat 1S i1 hours' eontin nous work 'Was. II that
eouJ.d be proper] . ri quired. of at Jegraph. ot>erator,
B_y Mr.. O·EORG·E :
,Q.. Wbilt i· , the: ,t.rain pb.y sically . ·.nd mentally· upon th,e, open.tor ·:........
A.. ·. ·. ·11, th - work reqliires a very ,close application of the seu.a e of
hearing and k ·. eps tbe nerves. -or hod .and mind at a high cleg:ree of
t n l,o n, i-- the effort to con jgn the matter· to pa:p er a . fast as it is. re.
t•e ~ ,. .ed, a d ·h•e work is also very wea,r ing upon the si_gbt1
Q. Do yon l'1 gar,d telegraph ~peirating as exhaosring to the mind as
well a to tl1 · body ti.- -A.. Very· ·much so.
Q. ore than ordinary pursuits t-A ·:u-ore titan anJ· 0th.er -that I
·k now oi:
Q.. Somet-hin. ·. w - a,i d yest·e nl y a.bout ope · tors not being very
long-lived ,; do 3 on k.now anJ th'ing of tbat :ubject f-A,. ·, )'~ observation wonld lead :me to t.b e sam,e co clusiou. l .k now but very few old.
tel _f{m_p b operaton;,, and tbey,. as. a rule, re abont worn. oat. For my. .
,self. . can scare. f,-r- wri -. at times..
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Q,. H.on~ old are . ou .-Al .I am 34 year . of ag~
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B,y th . CHA.IR _·.1 .4_

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Q.. I noti,oo tba:t all the .m pre enta;tives of th : operators here are
,oompar.att·. t~ly young men.. · re you about the average.in that respect,
or are --on rAth.~r mon~ the "old · m -.n of your order !-A~ I am on.e
of the 'l atter..
Q . Do tbe'.\ir retire from the bu·.ines·_. or do th · y d'i.e oirl-A~ They
certainly do not r -· tire weal, -by,.
Q. Do they go in.to other btt_iness !'- A~ Yes, sir,, a.s a rule they ,ro
·.,-,
. ··f- t~i"
.. ,. :•· . _.·"• ' uio
O t.~ • . . - ..
au
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OH t.··· o.
.ue- b. usine
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J.92

RELA.T 10~8 BETWEgN .LABOR AND

C•APJTAL ..

I!'

·Q.. Then tbe a·b seuce of olcl · . .en nm,o ng the o:p e·r a.tor, does not uec~
es·sari.ly men.n ·tba.t they a.re dead; some have di,e d. and a great ·many
h.a·ve goo into other bu.si.uess, I suppo e -.-A. I _hav .- known n: g.r eat
many of the·m to tak · to other avocation , even at 'less compen .ation, on
aeco-mrn of tbeir o·,f'n bosine _: b ing so ·wear·ng.
·
Q~ .Ho,1" ma;n y :1nemb..i- of your ,e xecutive ,oomm.1ttee ar-e ·pmse.ot ·he-re
1·0-d:H:r . -A . . Thfte .
,Q. How mian,. that are kno,wu to yott as representative operators;
that is, men, "'r-bo take som• · lead in thi ·trike .a.nd are :r eally representative men
A . As to abUi.ty do yon mean •
Q. I 01eaLn m en of ability as operators,. and who are ~egarded as rep~
resen.hl'tive men a.m.oog the.•o peratom1-J~,~ I do not kno,w the ability of
any of the niem · er,s except tlte two who are ·he.re.
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Q~ Wba:t I want to, kn,o w is this: yon are a telegrap'h operator of 18
y,e ars' .standi'n g ~ y·on ~ 34 yeari o1d ; Jon am one.of the '' old"' men iu
the business and .a etnally a,nongthe o.lder men of tb:ose enga.,g ed i:n that,
business; now,. of those ·w·h om you "know personally, snd .a bout whose
atfair · you hav-e some knowle-dg,e. aud who have been in. the b•usln.ess
for ten years or longer,. bow ma.n,y, p;tssing· o ·e r t'hose (i.f there are any)
'°.f objecti onab1e habits, have aooumu1at . d t,2,000 ap·ieoo· . A;, It would
be h anl to ans :,er that qne ti.o n ; I can say th.at I know of n.one~
Q. . . ou. know of none that ba·ve accumulated • 2,000T~A1a, I do n.ot
kno\\" o ·any.. I know of · ev·, -r al ·.. · ho m.a.y h" -v,e a bank~'b ook or two, but
a to the aimount .]llaao ed to tbt ir cred·i t OD those books I am una.b]e to
,s tate. 'T here are very few of them of n1y acqaain.tanoe, how~er,. u.nt.e ,_ ,
it b a, :ma:oa,g ·. , -o f an ,o,f fi,ce,, o.r ~ cb'i'e.f o-p erator, or men of that c]as·•,who
are reoe~,..ing a fair comp n.satiou for their services, wb.o ever lay away
an · ·th·1·11 g'
Q. I' exclud . from oonsid..ratitl · in tbis que,stion men · ,bose failore
to sav,e ,c an be attributed. to bad ha,bits !-- .A . I k . e.p that hi mind 'in
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aus.werin.g the qu.es.tioo.

Q. In otber ,vord.s, I wan to k.now wha:t chance t,bere is for area.
.s ouabl3- Jlrode1l't nnd conom1i. al ma . t.o sav,e a ·n t ie mo'Dey 10 the busi~es,. of a t,elef?rdph 01n!rato1•f.;.__A.• Well., tb,e r.· might be -owe chance
fo:r a n1.nu to tlo tluit it he ea. :-etl to work fift en hours -~ da;y-'tba·t j , , for
a -,m ·gle man .. but if lie was a warri ~d mau, or had, a father or a mothe.r
or a, s:ister .' r sorne other person ,depend ~nt upon. 'h 'im, it woo.lid be .s imply
imJ!OSsibl · -Jor bin1 to lax 111, a yt1ung without · orikiug extra .h our
,Q~ Do,,· do lOn aecorn1t,, then, lbr '\ l"bat I t'l ke to be th fact, that
youn ·: ,g eutl mt.n of' qui: k J>at"ts a11d uatnrtd u1telHgenoo, a.n.d Joung ladi,e s of simHar cap,,ac:~ ty, s~-e k this ,~n11doJ"Jneut T-A. To a great extent
th y seek it, or ratl1e1· -th · u.-=.:JJtte1i is brou.gh·t befo·r them b,Y proiessors
of "' t-e1e g.r a 1d1 coJle:z-e~,,'' an.d by nl ans of 10 isr•tlprese~ tat ion.. I11. n.eru"1y
ev ..r,y Jonn.i al ( I k no·w it ·1s ~o in .BOAton) you will fiud a.n adv·ertisem,e·n t
setting 'for i in , ·. rr .ftorrt ry ~ 1yJ,." r.he ind noeoien.ts to young gen tlemeu
and 3,·ou u g :1;ld ie:s to tnk t~ p t ele~r.lph :v. 'T bes state in thes ad vert1se
meu.t _, that ·, he salari · ang, fro n .· -.ffl to ~i125 a month. Wbile, teeh11.ical .Ir spe,aking.,, the i.r c.J rcu Ja r.s a1 ti ad ,erf'i,Rem,p..B ·s ar,e al I ri,tbt, be~
MllJ.~~e th ere are opera tors ,v bo get fron1 • 40 to 8125 a mouth, you well
koo\·r by thit1. time · ha· tb a.,. ,e rage salary of the telegrar•h ope1 · tor is
about $ -a 4 a 1no11 th i tu the CiODJme1·cial bran '" b of thie bu .h1esst: and the
a•,.;e·r.- 1gt~ i.n tb e · a i!road b1·an eh.on1, · fro,01 $.38 to $3·9 .a wont b.. ·Now, by
meau . of th·.·se fraudulent cir,eulars .·nd atl \-, rtise·m ents, of these ,~, teJ.e ..
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R'ELATJ:O.L'"S BEl\\'"EE · .L ··•.- oB A .D CAPITAL..

grap'Ji ,c olleges" a gTe.at many young peor,le are: indo.c ed to ta.li.e !JI> the:
prote · sion as ·- n1eaus of H·\~·c ibood., .aucl th,e J find that it is not all what
it is r•~J>resented to b · Th ··~ .· '' cuUe_ge~ " a ti frandul . . nt, and are go~
t en up bJ parties tli«i1 ·: tbe , ~ ··:rnpaD,J ·,\~onld uot- gi'f'e em1~Ioyment to be..
cause of their incap~1city o·. 011era.tors.
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By .l lr1 GEon:G.E :
Q. W at i · tlie s--dar3 of the manage· . of an.offlee ~--A .• ·T ha . de11enas
.a gl'ca '· deil npou the bnsint:s .. tra.usact.~d. 'l,be ~allry of t·he sti11erinteu,d ,~11 t of t 11 e as t i·n. di st 1·i ct. is som ~t lti u _f!' like. $2, r(10,., I u ud,e rsta ud ;
tl1ei ssala1,~ or ·_
b _·. 1nan,.1 ie:r tlJ~r iR $13~ a ·w outb nu,1 - " ~bil ·t he man ..
ager b to1·e him rto~ 840 a_nu)ntb 1nore ·; t.b ,,,vrire cbi f '' tb ..re rec~i.\"'e .
$115 a. n~ontb, as ,;1gn10-·'t ,8125 received b.r tbe J)arty -·:·ho 1n-e.ced d h · 8:l ..
O1f N e,v · r ork sa la ri1e._ I an~ un abl,~, to sp _a k ~ P 'r uhahl) the sa],a13
11 ,... · · . 'l-r11ra
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m··o-u th , ti
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· · ·t 01· , 1.anQnlg
· · er · · - .f l"Ollt
· · 00 11IO ·toe,
· · ·, 1.....-.. a.
:'"' 'i1"'b ·ns.
·= :,i~ 01.- . -e e· ·t I u:-r
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c·b.1e· f· 01
ten1at1c re trencbn1~nt goinr, on in t11e 11 Jtlla~emrent of' the con1pan,~..
(;_~ Do ~roll knO\'f." r.uJytbin~ about the ~ala.ries of the PCI"'""tary, f _le
g . u ( .TU I ~ u peri.u 'i. 1ul~ ut and th ,ot11 .· 1 bi-ch · ·r om
of ·, be coin 11u1~3 ! _I\.• N·o; hut · l1·1'\""·e uutle~t0,otl tbat tbe "'actUJ": ·1u-e "dent,' , "· ucra]
'E c I-..et t h a;:s a. sa IarJ of ..S·. - (J 00 or .- ·~. ,000
- ot' th
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Q~ ,, .:·ht--ar occ::: siou:.:dl~ ·b f certa:i u -di8e 1s s ·which. attack tue op~1·a.t,o rs.
-~ is ·t• ·1a ·_ .. -or~er·1.· oii-'s l)at 1v~is aud oth r sueb atl'ee lou . ~ _
;· do yon li:row
a1rrtld.n,~ aboll't that 1n·l1tte1•··. '- ,·. • Se, ral Sl _eh "'a:3ies, b4. ,·, e come to n~y·
kn o wlejtl i,.,~ ~
Q4 HonTi ~ thnt. cli ~eHse ,cansell
·.• l fbink it 1•,e sults 'o a '\'.·er~- great.
ext ·II't fron1 coutiuuons wr~tiu.g with . ste -l ll }.n.. 1 ha,e uo·ti, ·: d tf-1at
witl.1in the a:{ fou ~ 01· fi1,- e o.r si · 3·.1a•· ,. · be con.11lany have fnrnibhtd iili·
woodeu peu •bol.th?·:, a.utl , uod b~ ~ · ~ a non-,r ou dnctor of e lt ch.ic-it.:r . it
doe· :no . b•, :ve a ten(l I cv to ,l tff~e't th . n rve. , .as they are i11lecw< b~
the use of t'be JJ1et:~il J) _u.--h.ohl r In old. ti.n1es the I) '"b-bolders u~ern
fu.ruis,hed "·i.th au iron bruu] in ,vhich to intSert tbe J.l t · , antl 1 J),r e6utue
th · para.ly8is was. ·i hrougllt about in that ·_ ·a.i, b. - stentl :.., ~outinuona
•... 11tiug1 ,ruUe the luiHd in 1nany cases "as pe1.s1,irinQ.", tuns ean~ing a.
c.urretl of electricity to ·,,,or -·. upo,11 fbe uer s"
·Q.. · ou SJ_Jea.k. of' being u alJle to \Yri.tc ;.it times yon:r·, lf; f1.o you n.ndersta d that to be a s:ig:u of the ull})I'Oacb of "'on1,etlt i.u g i 11 t b. . natu16
of op ,1 a.tot7:i 11n.ra1:.~s·is ~-A. · "'"c~.,, si •
Q~ llt.~:,,sioned b~· labor ·~uclt ,Le;;, you. ba,~e 1lescrib~-d ! - -· .. Ye~~
Q. Ho"· d1tl . .ou lo - yoltrotb r a.rut ·- \._ I Iost that, on a railro· ,d by·
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co1nuii.ttee ,_ ,. ·• rh.e.r-e i~ uothiog ,e lse that I dtsire 'to state that I no·w
call to 11ind .
Q. You ar _clulirma.-n of tbi,s executi, e eomm.ittee of 't•he rotherhood,
an~ it n1ay be tba.-t yoa bave some additional s.n_
ggestions to make with
re:lerence t n legisla.ti ,.,e or otber ·m.eas.ure' . th a·t mi,g:·b t be . ervieea.bl ~ 00
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·ou ba,-e any sn.c.b sugg· ·~tjon .·"~~ ~hall be glad to rt·ce·T.· e thero.-A. I would a,k _onto ex~
cuR .· m ,f f -om 8.a.T1n~ an · thin;J upou tlu1t .· _·~ject until after the otherside l1a1-e }J - .· sent, d tl eir- ens .

)tonr · ~.r aft or tot e lalior int·i,·r e~t n·en •raUy..

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ll .Are you a in·1rrit tl uu1n ·.·- .A.;1 1. . P~, si:r .
(Ji ,,; 1 a · ~~·dary ba,\:-c . ~ou b~t~n I l!. ~ej, i 1g .~.\,. ·-:c,T·nt~~ dolln:r s a
1nontl1 .
Q. 1~ th,;t+- adt qu~ t.e 1or ,/on1· f··~ infol't"'t ble ~up·p ort. - •·- . No. sir,
Q. \\ 111nt an,ou I! it d· ~ : o i. lr,x~ t,c int,\- fol hoUMj~.11.·n or board : ~ A .. I
.r ut ~t ·u~ho! ; huu.·e Lnd :ul 1,~ r·-1i-t of ~.t ~ hnt i:. "Jb1Jut the ·O I-,. ' a . e
cau liiY iin ~i h• b ~c eity ~
(). So tba t lO l:w~t ,.\" un· tl\\~n .I't u • fr- c ~· ~-\. ~ do uot. llx r,e n -is $:.0
uo,,. rny slt·1rL ·Of" ·t be i-~ut..
Q~ \"h Jt do~.... it cnst fi•r th,~ ~u.h,:si~.t nt.~e of 3, ODF f::imdy '-- • It ,cos .
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I

:m e all of tlu .~··;o a Dionth~
·Q Over $ '70 - l .. I . co .t -~. m. · tJma.t..

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·. work a gr a:t deal ,of extra

tinu.,, too.
Q·~ ,, liat i .· t1~ -awouut of yo tr ,e...tr . · 1•1"' ...........· .~ W -n at tbi' . s.eruro1 ,
of ·t . · yea. I ba1.u found it nece· sa-r ,y o ·make $4\0 in the month e~
t~ , or cq1u~at nt to that ,vbich "\\~ould bring m ui.> to about' $110 a
1

moutl1.

(l,~ \_

th rn tot" nine hour.· fo1· a da,y"s ll,OI'k · - A. }lo; seten boors;:
our ~ x.t t.a \\~-01· -- i ·. ,coru f)H ti tl at tll · rate of seven ours ,l d
Q. H(l ~ou .6. <l it lte~c, sa~r to do that extra ·" To1k. in order to• p:ro,·id f\1 )' .nsuuable a :uul C ,n1fw·t a hie subsi ' t '. 'D '' .•. fo sour fam1lr -

a,r.

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-

D,·
... ]tr, ALDRIGB ~

uw Ion~ do -sit t·:tk~; ·· per. on of ortlinar\'"" int .]Jigence to bee.om ;
an expelt 0·1 e1·1ttor ?--1\~ ·. ot ·i t than four ,- ar · at ~untitant n11·plica•
Q.

1·

tion.

Q.

o you
. th".ul. tllat thf fiict of 1onr b -ino- known a·, a member of
th. , Drotbt~rbo· - ba(l ·uJy -·O"'ec.t . , hn'" nch1g th ••o:mJl ·. u.r to de 'iline to
gi ,Te you ~n1 lntrea~e of .alary ·. ~ o, · ir, I think not, becau_e I ba, e
~

1

·.•. ;I•

known non-u . mber · o ue treated in the .- a1ne · · a _. ..
Q. You tl1iuk~ th u, that th · r l · i a ... clJ,e ral one whiub w.a .a pplied
'to "·,·on ajs to others
,-A. .- Ye~ . 8ir..
.

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.' MA.n-'R IED .•

By 1\.[r. GEO ·GE :
Q. Rav , l ou 11oticed on t-he 1>a1-t oft legraph op rat.ors a.niy· clisp _· t..
·t ion t,o ta-.. ... UJ}on tbem· el .e - the cam of f~ mHy ·.-A. W ._ JJ,I I don'' t
kno,, that .h av · noticed any di -.. incl.iuation. I have, bowe·,rer-, b anl
a 1rreat mauy xpr ss th ms l,·es, to th e.ffect that the.v would settle
down and. r _t married it· t.bp.y were ecei'vi.ng · _prop _.r compen ·ationQ ·w .h at I waiut to know ts. tbe a,t,-tual fac · _; Te there few or many
r( .

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

married men among tbe operatur !-A.. A ' a r11le they are young meuu.nmarr1e(1 .
(J,• .i\ut'l that result, s-ou think, is. produ~d by tbeir ina.deqnat · comJl -nsatiou f - . I do, sir.
THE WE,S TER:S

- y th •·, ' H
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t :N" ro N , >. su E PL -c·s " AGA1N·~

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Q Wba d ·i d.,y on ~tat-e to b _ tbe amonut of th .· surplus,,. a.fter per .· ing
tb t . , pe11' c.en t.. di ,~id eu (I of t be ,,;- eRt e·r u n ion · on-1 pa lll7, in the :y ear
l "83 a. report.\t l b.'~ G -l !l I'Ul Eelt:(~1-t :- A.. o,.· .1•'.f · - .:l.UOO 000..
llr. - LDI ICB.
o th~. witne~~ . J I think. it" , ou wiU PXan1iue the statenieut ~rou will fin :' that the u11du ... i11er~ spd only .· ,_ · y s1i.ght]J- clurin. ·
thr- .:r,ea1,. Th :r was ·. S.Ul~(llus. report~l a ' th -he~innill 11 of tbe J:ear,

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:nul. tl1e increas · in it duri ng- th ~y·e ar wa ,e:r~r s .ight_
ll·,_ HAIRlllN·. I . . t he bahn1.ce wha.t.i.~ 1~ft u ftt 1· pa:.:- ing tll .· di . idend
1inr. that -·.Y .ar-tbe n ··t 1 · maind .r- of tb ·. ~-~.ar · arnin,g . aft I Jla·: iu,g
t!Jq;cu s au the '7 per cent. tlividend.1
"f'h.. ' '""11~.!.. ESS. Tbe bala nee he.re is ov r $3 000,000.
'f ]1.
·.H AJRJW~~ But.do ·S tb.atan1ount rep:r : · ··. nt t.hesurJllos ~arnin,rs
of th· 1~ l·ear~ or fl n R.C C'llW 11la ,t~d 8 lllrl)1.u ru nni.n g ba k t]J ron.~b Se\"'" -ra.l
1

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,--e~.tr, · .
'Ib .· WITNE . s., I" bouhl sa:; ·i t: w·.n.s t.be Sllf1lh1s of tha. .:rear.
J.[ r. ALDRICH. I -call the \\~i.t n · s --',s att ··nt ion to the. tact that ou 't'b .·.
lt,'t o:f April of that ye·,_ r the SUl.'1)1.ns l'e·ported wa~ .es,.:.4:i,~ ~J'jO, and
on the l . ·t of' J"ri'lv it was @3. 7'41 · ,.752.43., showing only a sli""ht increase.
1

By the CH .- .J]lll.A::('
O·i 1 . tbat, ··, surplu accurnnlated through se:r,eral pre,··ious ,~ears,, 01
, lot..s i. all b on,t to that year .......... . . ' bis is a ,s'tnterneHt tor tb6 year
11.,
J
JJil
l.
1Ct·O•.)
t ·nh111.g , . nne "'11, ~..,
Q~ ,;\. hat are tbe .otal ,e arning·. for t'hr1.1·, ~- . r. ! - . _
,. .$I,G77·,.sJSJ'.UJ,.
;uut ti •· Rurplns on band ,J ·a nuar, l, 188:l, a · ·1> ··r last qtutrterls state.,
-41
· '··~ I (•~n
Ille I t ., lS
'"' •, g,;;;r.~
'Chi;;, 4 ·. ,
(~·. Js. not that s:orplns ·:tn acc:umnlation of perhnp.• m~ny }lreTi.ous
, ,m, 1l rs i.u ', tend. of m-e1·e1,.. 't b ,·. ·r e1 a i DdP r of t 11 ' (:3 rlli UJ!'S,of th a.t ., .ear afier
1).4,) J n I~ OJlerttJi11,1- eXI ';.]l' '~s ' ', bit~ thP- d 1,·1 de·na _:. . . . . J t niay be ~o.
1

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('.
,,:- _bat wrre the carr ·1n~s
iu i. · e.,2., acco1'thn~T .o th.at titatemen .s u·b~
~
.

.
I b ~- I1.~ep. : . nta:
. Pre
.
B·• 1ng
. lu1m ' - ...'s.
.1nn-ret

I '""' 'Ll• ~,
·fl 1~!-....
ua...f}O...= ..
Q "l\ hat wrre I:be ·t otal ••Il@ratiu .· . -:1pense .. ·_ A ., 89 ·995,.095.. 92.
(j. And th · bA la n ~ !-- .· , ·e~e-n 10:iHiou in 1o 1ntl u1uuher~.

(J-

Fr-om

&
~ 1 .-.. .

th.,,t e ·-;·~nOO 000 , 011. nuder -taod
9

·t b •11t the dn-iden.d of 'i per

r~n t~ ,:ras paiifl .: · .l. Ye·'".•
Q.. x ·ow, a.f e1~th : 1u1y ment of' an the cbar,ens- ot~ th Jear, iu ·lndin,g
ope1·a.tin a- ux Il u ~ ·s. \\"]1: . i,~ · he ue't ha Ian CQ .. can ~-,ou t .· U . \. fter
1·u1~, ing the di,id.en,d ·t·b . surp]n: is 83,".i 43-'79:t ~'7(t
Q. But is t hat the · .urplus ot the e·1.rniug. of that O'l e· :rear, or i8, it
aH ~1ggregate of fh remaiutlc1s 11s.s.· ,I to tb ·:- credit of ·be u-snr-1ilns. ,,.
fn nd i.o r s ..,;ernl pm,~ions .r
·a1 -A. Probabli
it eovers se,eral ,~e,
ar ~
J
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•.
J• • .

Q .. lf th. e reqn,~Rts. of tlH~ .i-o berhootl w ~e t:om11lied with bow .m nch
u~oul,d t·ba-t con1p]iance incre~ _ tbe operating expenses of the ,compauy
pe,r a.nunn1. 1-A.• D·-o ~ott moon if the entir-e memorial wa co•m plied
w·i th '
Q. Y s~-A,. We bartlly ex·p ected tha't they woolll comply· with the
who e o-f th.e. requirerneot · of the bi1l, we presented,, but w,e ere willing
to ntbi trate ·.it h t heru ..

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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l '{H·:.

REI

TI'ONS D,ETW.E EN LABOR A. D CAPITAL.

Q~ Tb.at i _· if I uric] •--.·-tnrid ~ on, ,:ron ditl uot claim anything 1Dor,e·
th~1u .: ron ftlun1.g bt yoH re:anv ou:;ht · o ha,· , l,u you wer,c \V1lbn .,. ~o
·t..~11n I>mu1 i se f :i\ ~ ¥ es~
: ' - .· -. . now
-- . t'11.1 "1t nll
-.·. . - 'ritiq
·r dem"'ilind_tt- o
·-r· t;_, l1e·
Q~ U.U 1...ti suppos
"~ -- th
.1,;; .·n1rem
.. .
-- "- en
- .'t!D o
op •l"'a'tor:s h rut been grd,n ted, ,v hat i ucf'.c~i ~e wou Id i.t ba ve ~ado 1n the
a.u u na.1 -~x Iu~ u :ies of t be con, p,a ny ?'- A..
do not th· n k the iocre·1se
\l onld ba, e been n1ore than 17' 01 18 ·11er e .ut.
Q Do) on 1nfan nn ~ncr,e a e of 17" p I c n ' . ,01 18 Jler cent. i:n the
w·a~es nu,l~~ ..- -·. ·. .. ~·. Lout that.
Q. ,,1 h~~t is ·U1e ,· utir - an1.ount of' wages J1'0id. by the compaor'.A. That -aunu, ~ ,ate,..
'Q. JJ,n- fi.·on1 :'t on r gene r., 1 k no1,·l~d ge of the salaries pai £1. r o 1 a
t lul.'t t be i ne .e,ase ·,'"old,1 lnl've b@f 1 a hon · l '1 per cea 1- A. 1"""e:s, ,~ ir ; I
tb'i'uk ~o; uud ,eon~hlle.rln,~ the file! ·t b ~rt .s alari,t ~, bat:"e beeu 1.-eda~ e.d
abc ut .one~lialf "'~it.Lin the· los, t · u · ~·e,ars, tba't lt.id not appear to u.s an
nn,rentona llt.~ tbin.g to ,l l k
_
Q. No'\1 , Jon n1:n,y s ate, if yon cnn, the basis on " .hicb. tb.e Brother...
hood onld hay,e l1een wil'ling to ,~om-i1romise; or, 1f yon are wUl.i ng,
you 1nuy tt II u,i j ,,~hat ,r.ott]d · t t' le th · di. l)Ute now t~ . ·\,ee11 them. a.-n,J
the eo1Ufl,•11 -,~ t- .·... I l1n1st ask: yo~m to · Xf~ose n1e.. l ,m u.s t ~i, ~c~j~ ,p 1:0
a n~1'~er tlitlt qn :i,s't ion.
Q., ou saul th.at tbe n1atter a.t is~ne betw,e · n rour B:roth.erbood an,l
th -. - eoa J)··1n;¥ ·was to ba,,._: be -n innd" , s.nl~je,lt of co1npro.mi~ ·. or arbi.tra ioa if th, cou111C,n1y had been williug' to dis •tt - tbo n1.utter w·.t h
~mou f--: .A-~ Ye,.,, sir; but we bu, e no krowl,ed.ge .y et that tb, y wiH do
o and for -r.ba; -· rea"'iOu I tbi ·k it• is better for me to decline to , Il8\Ver
your ,q ue· tioo .
•!:Ii

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i!i.1111

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o·pro·-,ii:i!E·n- FJ'lio· ;c;!IT!n~s
.J..A.A ·
·

·

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II

By Mr. Puon:
Q~ I unde:rst~1nd. from the testio1ony here that your organization. does.
not fu:vur strik ·ti u "· a, meaus of setit ling dis11utcs between employers
anll their emu ploy 1,s . - \.. 0 ur o-ga u izatio , fo1~bids. strikes un.t ·1 all
other ru ti·,:: u,s ot" s ·t t leweu t h.•P~ e faH "d .
Q. --- ntl you w•o uld -, ~11 b \\1 - lhng to a1.bitr.ate. with th•e oompan~.r fA, Ycs,, s.ir.,
B Mr. 'G EOBGE ~
Q,, ·w hat other uities hu.v,e yon wo,r ked ·i n be .-ides J3oston f-A,.. Just
,o n.- other city-Springfield, Ma.·s~
T.he stL~tement s·ignied by t'he acting president of the, Western Union
Tel,e grap,h Co.m11auy, refe·rrecl to in t.he foregoing t ··s timony, is as fol. .
lows·

... XEClJTIVE OFFICE., ·. ;-. ES,r BBN

u h""'IDN' TELEGRAPH . COltPANT'
-··AD .

T .b e foUowin,· etnte,m ent will ehow the, eond.it'"o,n. oftbe comp
,qnarier' end.e d M-- e,h 311 U£i :
1

o.rk,, Jq.ne 13, 188'.3.,

·, at the ,c -ose ,o f the
1

Sarplna Jan ll'J' l, 1:sss,. as pe-r. last quarterly report~,,. • .... ., • . .. ... - ~ .. .. P,
Sm 24
Ne·t rev·e1u1es, quartel'· tmqed ll31'Ch 31. 1883. ..... ~ .................... ~ -......... . - ~.. 1., 677~ 818 51
~I

5, ,0711 7·03 75,

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

197

.R ELATI'OKS BE'rWE'E N' LABOR AND C.!P'I TAL..
FFom w hieh ded u.eting appropriations for-Dlv 1thmd -o f .l f per eent .. j payable .l.p ril 6 m
,__ .,_ __•• ____ •• _l" 399,,7i67 25
[n r, :·t, OH - onded debt .. .. ... .. .
~~
~ u .. ~ •
106., fJOO 00
S'inld.otr funds~-- - .. -- .. ·~~ -~-~-.-H• --~ - ............ n u ~ -- ~ .... - ~ _
'20,,094, 00
;o ..... ...

;o;; . . . . ½

......

,. •

l .,,526
- ' m,4 6·125
'
.

Tb bet r--even u •a .fo,r the q ua:rter -:ndiDg June 30; insn10 t 'bas.t::d upon
n a;rl .. · co1nplt:rt e.il rutu n , for A11ril,. par:t ia I ,etums for fay,, aud e-st i ...
ma l.1g the, l nRin . ss fo,r· Jun~ will oo about . ..... _...... __ ,__ .-·- . , . . . ..._.... _
I

-.Add ·urplns .A.pril l~ o. abov ... ____ . --·- . . ·~-- ~ ·~~. ____ .... ~,. •.,•...•. _ .. ___ .

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-a=- llj\lVI,

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a. 545, 242 .so
5_,,lfi,~
w-ro.~,,,,.,
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rrum. wllich. a-p_pr-o,pri_llting fcn:on bo,r11ded deb··
~iD ki1D(; f UDd.s1
+
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126~.i'OO 06

-,e aves a balance of. _,________ ......... ......... _.. ... .... ~ _.. .. ~ ___ .. ..__ ,__ . _____ 5,,143,, 542 00
!t ·nifJ.ll'i f · · for. t ' •e 1iaJ rw.n1t of a dividendl o.,f 11 per ,cen't- on the capi tal
t!it uck . _..______ .. .,. . ~ ~ .... .
~
~
11 :a!KJI, 700 00
~

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. .. . .

;., . .

;o, ... ... .. ..

~ · ,. .. ,.,

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.. ,.. _ _ ... _

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Tlte 1ease <lf t be liu,e:s o,f the 'H utu al .. ui.,o n ·· om,p .n , too ·. · . • · ::, . Febn1a y 15., l. ~ .,
' •_ n. .a-!~ _
i_nj ~-' .. •tioll to _fe8tr:J ~ ~ta, ope:ta"ti,o ~ ~ ..ill -~ f ~nearly th~.months) ~hus,
1111.1eY•eot111g h oompauy dur1:ug that per.HMl .f rom sooor.t ng· tho ben@:i.ta of ,e onsohda,-

~or·

,io •.

1

,ion in ·t he matte·r of ex Jtense .~
Respectfully snbmHted...

On mo•t io·u ,, th foUowiu g r ...olutions ·we:r.e adopted, to, ... it"'
In v .r ew of t bt st.ateP1 ~ uts - u bn1i ttetl1:·ewlvtd,, T.h a·· a ·d h·idl 1,d of l! pe·r cent. on th · eapit _I stoo·k of tlds eo·m pany ho

b ·reb)" declar cl payable on aucl •·fter July lG, and on :r .m0va o.( legal re. traiut pro,
hU•~ ti u g nch pa;l" uu,n t, t ) tU oek:ho·~•l rs of · cc.rr,d t , he . loSi6 of tli · tr.a u fer... boob
on. the ;;Wt h. o ;. .J uu · ii is.taut.,
ltCJJril',t t,d , Th.at the books ,of.' tr.an~:fi ·r of ·t h · capital frt,o k of the cnmpanv lle ,c lo ed
a·t :1 o'c leek of' th : ~1 fteru non of t b e 30th of June . in. rt .. ~l ., and b~ l ,~en~· d OiO the
umru ~ng· of'tb ·. 11th of J1dy :p xt..
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Tb.e chair1nan ari·nouncecl that. '" t ,v.as .•·Xll ctetl that v.·itn . ~SPij \\'"ODld
a·p1iea.r on 1\:l.ouda~ tli ·· .2'0th in tuut to 1_.n-esent the.,,. .est - ·ru U:nion s.i,d e.
of th •· oont-roi er .• ,y·,. and tha '- ·i11 t.he. ·, - ·n n ··i1n.e the eommittee woul
J1ea-r -.•tateu1• nt -. trow .-prnseutati,~e wor·kiugmen on tb _ · g,euera·1 qoe.
rion of tbe r• lations of labor and ,e ap,ital~
,.
d .~
Ad.1Joorne

NE.w Yonx, Augrut 15,,, l,883~
· •·- " Ued and. fnrtber : x.a mined ..

S.• M .cCLELL -· ND
By the C
N';
Question ·· · ou b.a.ve in. ·n,ind.,..of conne,, the priuci_p al 1,ointR that ·. e:re
sug:"es,ted to _,011 . b~11 J,ou wei· · ·1a :t :'··tore ·t he <.~mniitte -, .and you mav
now· p.roceed. in your own ·\vay· to make whatev· ·r state·m.eD't you desire
IH relation to those points, or in fe·l ation to any otbe·r matters that are
pertinent to fhe ,s ubj '!,,et . ude·r ·i nv ti,gation; and wbeo you have done
that w· _ will qu~,s tio ·· yon further if 'W e think it necets.Sary,-Answer I
JO·R N

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KELA 10 ··.1 8 BET\VE:E ,~ ' .. BOR AND C'APrrAr ~

198

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1-eq.n ,:sted to fnrni6b evide11ce of tb.e cxisteuc.~ of iron-clau uou+
t rachs.or 3 .{!'r◄1 n•. ,1i:t ·: i 11 · o ,r bi ch f ,ru 11loy,,.Is ·n,•irre for -~·d, 1,ot on 1~\: by tele,.
,g raph con11•anies but ,y <'t hf:/ en11•l<1J -rs of labor thron~hout tl1 .. '!ouu
ry.
n th - ·~b rt t~1n that ha . elau,s ed sin~e n1y exnu1iuatiou ye,~t, rd.ay I ba\"e gathe·retl son1,e, e"ridente on that 1SU.bj ct, inn1. l 'Pt_ill submit
tir~r ·t lu~ irou--·]ad contrnct (lraVt n 111) at th.e time of tbe diffienlty bet ,Leen the l ott~r, iu tJhio inul thPir n~ orkin(:r1nfn clntiug last :yea·r ancl
a1$0 a ·po.rtion O·'· 1 i~ yeu:r. I lJaYc here n sU11 of pa1,er· contanli11g one·
of tbeS(: 1uint~d con-·racts
Mr G E: R·G ,, , Rea,d ·t to the committee·.•
1\.;-as

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' - IRON-CLAD '' CONTRAC'T-S OR "OATBB,."'

The

" ' 17NE8S.,

[Rer,ding,~:]

I? nit

tr:,.ul . 3: th,0 r•e~uia~ e~t:il1U..hec~ priees,.
·. o~ug m~ w?rk ,w. ::1,, . o-0d, w~orkn an:hk 1nau~,e1", '\vrthdra,wn1,g t::ro1u ,~~e Kn1~hb; of
·Labor, aud ll"".~' 011n~r an out ~de parhe.,, e,i0m1n ft~f's, anrl trad or labor n$o -1.1hons11,
,a nd al .o ag~·e n,ot to ,c-o:nneet ms, elf .~t h the K:ni.g bts,of LaLo:r · or un y i o_nar·orgau
ization, 01· · ,o, Join l n a uy m ,e e·t i ng or- proce · · ou of · a •:. h. organization a, "' hi le in fho·
em p,lo,r of t'be ~a i,(l iC D.
ln. consid·t ration o,f w.hic.b ·t he aid C D af;'"t',e s to pay A :B for hi.s l!W- v1.ees
ry two
weeks:t aa is customart, tbe net~rv s.tO(lpag, C'1'iCell d.. ' .b 11b,nre ,HITT@ •me_nt.
,.•an onl; ·b e term hu1.,t • t hl" · itl~e pa_i l rcri vi u tho ot.h'11" two w,eeks' .oUet; ·o ·le , for,
bad work :ans.b ip, ,.=ri,o lation of tbis oon tract-, or the rui~es of th . tr ft)ry ~ o,v in:t@t.fe-1'"9

l, A ,B, here}1v_agr e ·,o _'"ork f'o,:r·,C
1

, ty

1

('I"

I

boo

wi t.h other · or). n1,··D ..

Signed and

aled 'this -

-

d y of'•- -., 168--2.
\VE T, IJA'RD\VICK1 & COF
\VM.. HR . ~T.~ :J.11.•.
KNO'\V.LE, , TAYL10 R ,& 'K N'O'W LES.
,v1LLI.AII , LE .·, lK,E .
GOOD\V'JN DRO~ ..
l\"ALLA E & CHETWY m.
GEO.. S,,, HARKER & CO.
1

1

E ·'. T L t'VEIU'OOI.,, 0

'fO, Ju::n·.e 2., l~.J...

By the ClLURll :
~ Th .:re is a p1ect, of pat>er wfth printed. matter upon i~ ,v1li,eb vou
have r ,ef d tot Ie 001nm'ittee~ Please tell us1:now bo,v i.t can1,e into you.r
po. s · , ·ion,, and wh.at reason. ·011 have for belie,·inl! tba t it .r .:p resent
anvthing· that ,va.s ~lt,~n.al ly done.- - . lt eooH~ - to m ,e in tb•e ordina:rJconrse of ml ollieial bnsine·_ s "ith the emplo:y es o:f these fl.rm,·-" 1t ,cowe.ij
'lo me. with tbe official s1. al of. the or.,::;-a uiza,t i.on to which t bey a.re a.·,
taebed. ~tamped trpou r·, ao(l :i ·· ~swell knowu tlu~ough the uewtS.p apers
ill Pit ts burgh.,, Pa•.,, and in . he vici ui.t.y of these ,eRtabli.sh ments, th.at th~~
6rnu~ have clone ju t fbat kiu,d ot· tl!J1h1g\ The matter ha ;, ~~u 1,ery
fully fe,terred to aud discus.·ed in 1,ublie, alld it is .generaJl.y accep,tecl
Di' a :fact that this co tra<f ba-s been l'•nt before th. ·ir ·.w ployes a . a cou;o
dition on w·ldeb the·v ,,tould be a.Howed to re't111·n to -: ork.
,Q. What infonnati.01·· ba\"'e yon is to whether their emp1oye,s -xecu i:d
suuh a }Japer as a cond·i tion pret'Jedeut before tl1.ey ,dul retnrH to work,,_
A. It is tinderstood that they· di,d. o Q. Has th.ere e, r been ft.ll\'P d· nia.l of the autbentieity· of that cou1

!

-

Ill •

-

trac _· f:-A. N~J tbuit I a1n a,va-re of.
_Q. Tb I it is JJot an .a tter that was eon -1dered ,secret at
1

Enr

au 1-A..

No,

Q... .A common p1;;a cti,u ~t-A..
co1n1uou p·r a,cti e
,Q.. I n11de.r stand 3~ou to say tbat tl:1at. eontraet was sub.m~t ed to the
employes. immediate·i. ~ .a-frer a strike f,- ·_ . ·_ .·ui.s -as. a.ft, r a locko11t.
There i.l'J .ai d ·i der uce between a s ~ri, ,e a tl a lo _· tkont.
Qi . 'pla:n the di.ilcrene.e . -A. A lor.kout i.ti nuder ood to be hero
1

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

RE .AT10N ,

E".f\YEEN

BOR AND CAP T.AL.

199

.,itbont the eu111101· " nuiking au5- aA,gi- ~~~i,-~ Ilovern1 nt
u11on hi 1!, ~Jo._e·s bi,~ doors agaiu ·t fhe ·m·1,10, e It~ ·::iu8e of hi· conue -tio,n with a labor oi·~~unzation,. Lo , k.o ut , ·11· ; of f11tqu<:.u . o "lie nrr, ~nee
in 1'bi, conut1 ,~~
·
Q= A Jockout, tll u .is equi vnl .nt to a di.scba1 g ............l. J t 1 ·1. di:s1cha1·ge, a t mi orarl oue, br,, " ..a.n~ i11 cJo. ·ing hi d ,0 01~ thl <'tn11lo:;.tr, . ,3y tJ1:1 t -th :, " ill be 1·cd1len d to _'h ls £i'lll}Jlo)~..
.11 t b en plo, .~ ,rf,b . .
drnw from the labor organi.z ation u.,.~tl1 rhich lm · hHll b ·on 1 ct d.
- nt if :rou call i' a di scluirg(I, it i.~ 11ot a ,11~ehar~e d ' ie- to anJ, filn lt of
,rorkn1ansllip or auy thult on th~, .1•ar of h · en1plo ~
e; no con1plaint
has b cu m.u d · 1lhainst hi · of' any uii~ ondt .c t, ·h ut J, i locked out
. iu11. l,~on ctecou.l lt of l, · s joiuiug 1s on1 lo bor or~··t.n izat·~ou'"'
1•·
.".~·t_,ue
~"1'.llt : .J, o·
r·tb ,■'.'lit' COllIt'iil!illil, ·t ~. u1C
I •. ~ ,.h
-. . - ·tLl3.\
, •
• ~ l ..
-. .
Q.• n''rb·a,·t lS
1 'OU.
e. . leat
.,- -·. . 'J nne

tb eiuploy

,,~h

C

....

U ,d,I ~ ;

.

'

.

H

. . ..

e

.1,11'1\C. '

HAI ROADS THREAT·E,~ DISMI S \.L OF OP'E RAT 0R , 'TI~HO 13 · LO_'"' r TO
THE BROTHER 00D..
1

I '. 1101r .·· ) sterday al.~o of c rtain raUwn:.; sn1l rinten1d nbs. d 11ing the
eou r~e <1f t be fo,.rm at ion o ·on r t , le gra p11,e r =s org;1 n i za:tion , ha,;i 11 ~ se:ot c "'·r
cul :t~, to their -m1.,lo,:res tel Hug th ni 'tba the~t mu · no · eon I ct t . : m1sel,·e with th .· org•i'n 'iza.' ion, or, if tb y· alr ad - belong : d to it, that
they n1u t n.n1nediat . lY witbd.ra,w, 01111ain of ,d is.mis, al from tlJ,e · ·. r,··1~0
of the con:r11.an~". I - d ha . two .of the le i ..ts wbich I ha~~e 1 cei,..ed
fi·om ind:i , idual 01 ,r a:tor , i~(Lrring to the · e cir-c l:u ~ hav b · n n1isJ _id or hauded ou1. 'fo publication iu tl1e , Ir !Ta·pb1c jou1·11a'I~, o t bat
tJ1.,e y· Hffi · ot "g ·ta able" juMt at present, but I c;au t .-sti1J,Tto th ~ suba
~ta11ce ot tbem,., and
ba·r . a letter here ·w hich will tl1row ,. ·m lipht
n1>01. th :· ma-.ters.. ,
Q~ \Vl1at wa the ~ubstauce of bo..e 1 . t _:r ", or theirstaitem ·n of th ·.
l'ubstauce of tho,~ .. circulars .. - ·. - The. a.b!St.anc~ of the cir,eul·1r ~,as
tba, th J n1u ..· . it her iurmediately withdraw from.the telegra11hers'o1·:;ranizat-iou ". hj c b 'Wus t b .11 fiormln g OI" be ll ~ sn1 i · t!d fron1 the m Jl lov· of t b ,e
companJ. I ha,, ,e a1 oth ·,1w l"tter' from a differ, nt part of tbe eouu.tr)
bearing ·. pon t.:h . ·. · UlC , nluect, from G1·ao(l ltap,i d ·, Jich
nr .l ~ ·t··tte
also tb - t notabl~ , on the . ail,,, y $J st "WS of llenn .-.yl,tauia,. and e8pecially
of the ~adiug R,) stem· ,u d ·tlJ .-. mans hr~ ucb·. .-- of tbe Penn .~~l,·auia R:ailroad,, such inst ue.t iou · ha,~'e be n i sueJ, to th . ir ,mplo3·es ..
1

-n .. N~OLAD

OATH · . NOT'

ERE .· ,O NTRACT;· "

~

ou recollect that y,o ur tat n1 n w·hicb l rl to 1n~r a ~ki.n (Y. on fo:r
ruore s11ec -..,., information of thi 'kin<I was ·bat ati ·. r th trik in 1870
th "\Ves tern Union Tf I,~.~ 'laph Con1pu11v Fi quir .d t m
.o .· e ·· -b0i we,r e re .
erup'loyed t . ft ""e an oatl1 to th eftect- , t · •Dk 3 on -aid, tl1a't t11P.} .· ould
refr-Jin 1:roo1 b~ oming memberN of any 8l1C ·· 01'"ganization :nd fiom t -ing part in atril" ·sin the futnr,e. Ha,·e·3 oa anJ~thing of tb.a t sort which
3,·,tn1 cau submit ,_ . I , ,onld Jik .- to ha'f' b'rrit1 j"ht before the con1m"·t
~e ·; one O' two g ~ntl in :u l\'" ho ar _. now _mplo~ -d i,. the Western · ·. don
building and. who sub :cr.ib d to ~nelt au oath at tha.t time., I ha,-e
h·1uded their nam · 'to th . ,c l .rk
· be ·C HAIR:\IAN .., .T o tbe ., t rk.]
the H t to the witHes and let. him
Q.

1

N}Je,e,if

- h · uaiu.e

,~

r,a:- ,

_ · ,·he Vl11 ~- •"'~S. r1t ferring to tl1e _
Ji~.t.J tfC'tenriah D,orst~ ,J t1h · J .. Ca]l,a,..
·h an1 '\\ ,. C · _uuston . Rnd " • B. Somer,,·iU -..
Q. . t>n nnJersta.11d th~,t tbe gen.tle,rnen · 'born l,",ou have namNI tb,c, r.
d id, sub ·•:•it1b~ to ,'UCh an oath ?-A, Some or all of tbe·m <lid .

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

••
AN
. , 4..IUI.,
.·-.A.IPlT'
._..· c
. ·'..,.n

'D
. .BoIl.a

RELAT.1O:SS BETWEE ·.

1

Q~ Ra;,.,e you any other evid uc · bearing u11-00 that point !-A. I have
, i,vi.,lence, beari.a g upon. be gene,r al contract ssst tn •
A.ND, O'l~HER CO .7RACTS Wl7H ITS,

co - L COll PA. Y'<' .L EASE

.A

l[~

PLOYES ...

,Q. i.,. .e n - that then.,- A;o I a1\ ,e b.e1· .ti. cOJ>Y or _,contratrt or lease
pu . out by t e Hawk ,s ·• e~ , Coal Co1u1)an3"' rela +i v ,0 t,o the eooditi.ons
u oder ,¥b icb tt botLSe cou Id be occup.i :ti by one of the eom·pauy"s, em1

p lore
,...

~

Q . ,Vhere.1 · tlu1tc-0mp.an) localed~-- .• I ·. es.t Virginia, It . , a.ooalm ininti· cotpo ationt
(~. ,., 'ead the lease - A. [Readi11 ,rr :.]
1

j

CONTRACT' OF LEASE ..
J 1 · - , be.t-,,.riee.tl the Ha;wk11,
duy of .
'l." bt . eont ta •t. o:( le:i '..t?'.~ rnnd.c :· h si, Ne~.; t Coal Comp,ai.tlJ,, b:,- ~·h·1d1 : u~ IL Taylor iJ; 0;.~en 11 ,o f t ·1e. first ·p attt and •- - , .
ieumrul fi ·t rt, ,vi tness,et1b :, 'f h.r-i·t t ·1ie p,a;r,ty of till _i r,s t part, cloth. lie el y lea.se unto
Ed" fb
th<· ri~u:t of th !_"'m>nr~l Jtu,tt .rl ,c er aiu t P •·r ncnt-'houSJ ·, No. - , situn,t erl upollll. the
la1ul· of ~~nicl Jl:i . ks; ~.: t Coal Comp:i.1.1., nt At_· t.ed, in tbe, county of Faye: ,t ,e aud
per rno.ut·h.. Aud tb.e
,. 't a·h~ of ,,.. P t V~r~J o i -~-, 1,y· the mun i h, 11 t d t~ tlr.i e f>f $
Jlart.ies of th · first nud e ·o d 11-art her ·b .Y ·w aiv tbe~ , right 11u:1.cier ·t he law to req·u;iTe
n , ,,t ie.e to tenni 1ud,e · be tf nnnc 1,r n Mtler t'h i leas
G i \·eu. u ·tlt-r Olli' hantls tl.U} day am~l da to a bov . · wr i · t n.
H:...:\,VKS NE~,T COA.L co PANY,
By~~--~
-L

·'

0

-

-

!L

1

'I'ben here .ar · the artic·, ·. of agreement bet,ve ·n tbi ·. company and
. ord, er t,o
· 'b-~ th e c-01n1)an,y reqtu. es ·t h e m .u to sig . 10
b 1.c
.
1npl oy "' w.'~
1.ts,
be e:m_pl,os,- ed :
ls

1 1

1

~T . TE OF .: F:W YORK,,

C01tln:ss1:0N.E R

OF LA nnR , ",T T11·s.n c _.

AlbanJh.,- - -,, t.~ ~

dair o f - -., l · , between
rf:icl,..-.. of a ~i"lreemen't1mad · ., nd ntr'liect i'uto t.nt . 1-!b _Hawk m's Ne~t Cn1•d Cn mpa,n,,-·, l y iSt•~ pb, D • lJ' Taylor, · t:i a ·ct 't , ,o f t :1e · r . t part,.
an l =----- - - : , ot" 'th_ · · ·uncl pa.rt, \l<itne •t' · ~
1 hat th~ 11arf,y of th · tiiJ 1r; ,t. p; rt her ·by agr.fes to e:m,p lo:v the pa:rty ,o f' the eon<l
1,~rt, a~ u1i0ier, u1~0 1 a.nd nl~ffc t to t_lie) ilJ "'t eh.ia fu:~r:DJan •.~·l _t'ond_wtio1:~s,, .a~,d · be part:,
•~_)t :'he ;t secoud par.-t J ~~t:by u-~1-e · · fl'.nd hiucl . h.no~H tv act :to "t, ·'t c<:Ol'i l~u1u f,hereTb1.• )'' '.- tv of' t be . .cc ]ul. p3.tt sf: uU' ~ "t'-ht · fib · ~n mr of fort,- ,( 4.0) · n t per ton
in· • t lt.
t a ud so.b ~,.
U f J' ~t) f tOUU. i . of eoaJ ,r t 1 he f · · e t:roru · I· ,e tlirt,, a.nd ,o'(.lu~r imp ; ,i.ti
l..
rowui
ja.
.,&.c
1, 1~ le "kag(· n·b ·l,ue er s JCh ~1a.t-t:,
eooml y,art h~rehy lJ:i dR binu~elfto dig the ooaW at ihe. p,tice ''.,, &e.t
. 1 b · ('aft~.. nf 'th
here·io, .· . ·: . f o.r t h.
"fb.e p~rty ,o f t bt. firi ·, part :1gree · to J>D.Y th ,_party ot" th ~eon.cl pa rt aoy and .a ll
aJ oo.GJnt ., ( 'n c '11 ··-- 1 n pn b ,e (.5) d3T '' not i.e e -r:rf 11 is, .il es·i re to, lea, 1: e ti hie ·m1doym1en t of
tbe :p•a rty of th• · first 11art... AIHl th':._1~ar J of the ~"'. coud part hiereby li_UJ~ · liim$lf to
lll=a 'Ve 1-be. pmm i .es of ·t h.e p. Latty .o,f t ie :tirs t purr.t on ti,- 1(0-) da,·st 110tl • · of J1 i,s tliseha:rge.
lt is ·x f•·I~SSI,~ u:nde.r:stood l;y tbe pa r.U •s ;h) this ~ao utraet du1 the pa-rt of t:b,o 'fil"SI
l arf: n~tuh~ ' _,ill an ,C:lR~:-l tb,e ' ole riigf, or e IJlo,riinB, or d.i&~b_argina ~DY ID~D, on thtt
·t,•ork . •, ;ind in no ,~ase shaU any·maDJ le ,e1urJ0Je~l .. 1· h<>nt. .ll us .knowltt_l· · .a nd eonsenr ..
And h , par~y o_ th s~~nd. pm a.g~•e-es :indt_!Ji~ds, h'im1elf to withdra from .andl
1·,u1ou1u.:e ~ -13 a.t} ,g1anc. to the o~er of tlDr · ~ K tn~h 1. of . _bo.r,,'" aud not u. eomc, a.
we tu be r o·t ·any secr@t la 1.Jor organization ,v hi le in the em1 loy oif di.- party of the, first
~

1•

1

1

4

I

I

1

1

Thi C01Jtr et ·bnll remain in faH fo,rea and. ,e ·; ect uet1l - - t.he ls · 188 ..

Pa~

Given under ou.r b a dB thie -

day of-~, 18B ,.

B&:wx's ~ :E&"I Co•.&.L Co~,

By - - - -. Supt..

- - - - - -- Jliutr'..

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

RELAT'l 0 --,8 BET\V.EE,~. LABOR A .. -D, C-l -' 'ITAL..

201

Q. What do you. uude~tarul to b the t~a,son ,vl1y· th _- com1n-n rr as·k s
for tb insertion of' tha · final cla1 >..le . -A.. - 1, u1:1d ·stauding o:f the
rca~onof the atlo1>tio11 of lli • m all,/'Of ~ns,la: "ing·tl1e labor of fh , ,c ountry
is t'li.,l..t. c:ipi&tHsts, are be;zi.nu1ng to h'!'1lr th~ gt"<n\·ing llo,,·t~r, of labor
<u·,r,1: uizatioo , and ~,r · ud a oring in e,Tc.1.ry po~ ,i bl ~ ~--ay to cbec T:it in
tht bud., Iu t h arowth of labor ,o r~anizat~ous th y ~ e their o,vn down"'
fhl ~ unri of com·se tbey Vi·h,,h 11110 i.b1 _ to a -c t it~
Q~ l bat llo-wer o,.. rt -,e iudi.ti"i(lu.al laborer i.s i't- tb..ait t.heJ tear on tb.e
}lart of these J.•1 or o ·.gar izati ons -A. Tbe J)O er of th co,m 'b iued ac,ti•Jn and ~Wort of the laborinn- m n to ,t,; ' 1111. tbe ·bettern1e1 t of th ,i rcon1

i_

1

d1t·1on ..
Bv
,.. Mr. PuGH:
,. The po: - r of fiy tbo.11Lsuu11 meg unite(! in t :1d f one man by
bir ~1st1lf'- ~-._. Y:·_,_
Bv the C'JIAIEllA~ :
Q.. l unde1~staud th .·• po, e of lal1or 01 .~ auization to intl . •nc pubHc
011~uion by · h · 1~1 · · loll .at·i on and acJ,~ocae) of the cause of labor, and all
that; bu i8 't'bt!1.-.. nn~ o her 1,ow ~r ·wb1 •h a- labor or_,_Y"+at{za.tio.n J~? sn.1•JJO~ -tl to ex ~rt o,~ er ·1t ~ ind ·,~~ d U,tt I. 11l rn. he1•,~ ,\.··1ne th • e nip.lo,r er, , en~
tl a\·01· to glutrd agains _· - -· . •. Noth."ng mor t ·ant. ·at by t~,. se o:r:gani.znthn , tlu~· nh!r .1;,~ts of tl1e sorkin~n1,e n a ·. t1.r·i ,, u more clo · ly to"' . ther,
tht\Y ti ,t t n1 •·oncert aud the . b, stand in a better JJOsition to :-eeure what
tile,•· cle~irc(J,. But :is · her .· anytbiu(l' like thi , that thes e, Jl1o.. r, 01aJ· b · en-◄ lc;11"'or~nJ to gua.rtl a(lf'ains• au obli. •·ati.on or a,rre.- m ut on th . part o,r"'
the iudi, idual 1abol'\er ·w·b ,eu Ile becuu1 _"S conu·. ~ tl \\"ith one. ot· tht se
l(t.bor oro-auizatiou,s tba . upon notice from th organization, he ,· UI qn:it
tU(' etupJoyo1 ut of any n1au or coW})any wLb bun1 lie ma\~ be emplo~ ed
and '\V:th \VllODl. b@ 1naj· h~1,we a COll ,- "clet- ~- i11 I du not 'look upou that
~t't-l the f ar of tbe ,em1lloy~r·.
,Q To uh~te~teut i~ the commou . . up))osit "'on or tb , common allc.gation of tl•e um.J>lo)·e:-rs true iu r "ard 'to the e trad. Ji:s nu.ion , that they
-Xl 1~cizs ·. ·t 1101., e1h of en ·. h1.,~e1ntut u1)0n th i1- meinu .rh . : o 1hat the ind1~
, 1,1lnnl uic1u b~·r, bv bis obli.g atio n to be organi z, tion aud b~ 'he. iutlneuee
'\,~b icb th ot.~~u.1iz..1tiuu a ·, .a \,~·hole can .. ert o,.~er .I.Jim,.is ·1>ract1eall) ".()Ul11ellt=d. to break his a,grie ·. 01 _n ,o r CO tra t ·. ~'itb hizs en1ploy 1· u1 on i:·e~il b1g notice from th organiza -ion to do o, Is ttcb a l)O ,e r a. . that
e.)'ercised by l'l•~ 01gauiz;_ttionM, and .i.f o, ·o what e· ent ~-A~ If Jou
'\tU tb ~ ,-riH. of tl1e u.u1.1ori ~; ex. ro1sin .. i1eh an iuiluenlr~ o,·e ·tu indi~
vidn:;1]T i 1u·olniuly l xists tot_ · - rtain , ·xJ,e ot in .l·'lbor org.auizations.
t~,. i\ 1~1hor 1 joiuH ·i Jctbor or.ganiz~ t.ion; uo\V, do '~•that ituply , n hi,~
p:t 1· u u \" ni·rul"i _. nt tba he \\ HI quit t h · , ~n1plo.~ 1:neut ot· au,- ,t ,1nplo, e1·
\\ 'it !1 "J~.onm lu.· r.11. 1y he enf.!n::retl, u1e1; 'l..v at th - will of the 111ajo1it:,; of tlae
u·1t 1'JJ.bt,1"iS .,,■ t·1,e orJ:ltm11z:1 · ion i -~\ .., Nut net..'e'S~a1·ily ·; uul_ ·s :h e bi' ds
bin ~elf to ~nl,u1it ·f o au~~sucl1 d,c:ision on th· pa1·t of · b oi~gauizati on.
,tJ. ,v·,. n,, doe~, In~, -t .=-.; .. t 1·1de~ :-;.o ll•iud hio11~ >-lf to ~nbn1it. to the ,.] .-. i ·. iora
of i ,Lc 111nil. j1or.i t,:,· t rf t be I ueu I he tN of t be la l)or oi·~a u·iza t ion ,,,ir b , ·btch
b(. ,i~ courieoted,, go tha , h . nt. ., he comir Jled to ln·~ak bi con ,,.~1 ·•:t w·th
b 1. : c1.nployer in ~ou:s -qu nc .· of su~h act.ion bs th .· n1;(oriry of hi . or~
gan iza.tion !-~A,. Th ~uhn1i~~.iou to, such an ag.reer1 aeu t· .,- t but. \- ar.i,es
.,u different ,01:gani.za.tious.. Ju so:m .- organizations I s .11•JJO:s the iudli\~ i ual dee:s .so bind bi.ni,~. lf.
Q. Is it J!c ner-al ty ~o, or oul,· to a limit ·d t_liX e.nt, amou.a tb la 1.>t)r orI

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202

I ELATIOXS DET,\"EES LA.DOR AND --APITA.L~

gui ~·zr:th =n~ ,~f the· count:t\, ~o fRr·a~ ,·ou ::u~ uequaiute«l with tl1ea1 !-..\ ..
I ,·,. .· 1.~,-:(l 1:~~ ~ ,1I~) -·•:u ~ittt··1· thnt ,ql1r ~.t h;:n a - on,. tl1at I shon1t1 .,. u··w.c.· -i1?1t
j U t I ~ 41 f \";;,":l .\".
t: I ~: a 1~~,rl r it in "~ u~· ,. ay.
I th iuk i hn~olY•e:s nu hnJ:)01·' unt f~uaru.l ontt \\-l; :,•h ,.\'0 1 ou.~·ht nut :t o concP-~ll. If ,·ou 01 . hebu f of tl1e l'tihol"i n;..:· rr t~n• .ro11 1ih1i I' iI ri r•ita!,, and if th .r. lu boI"CI s unit fi11·· flu . 1n1rJ;o,,:,,p· J,f l ••ro~-(.It~ ti lJ :,..,· J,l 1~o 1· u.0 :n ni st c~1 pi h l, iu w ln . ,,._~:·t ~ do th · li~ :. lo n.1·r s
1,,r oh t~t tht iust.) , ~t ·~ tihjci~/ 11t l~· a1,.n1 in -.~t ,~a·1l'i ta·1u1 ·h~ss 111 th-:1t in~aJ· .~ \VI ult

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.··;• i,t IU tlu.:ij(~ h1bor (U"l-,. ·n1:izat i "}ll ..: tl at iJ"pi ta 1l~ia]tv d:rr·uls -..::\, I :,I \"rp
snitl that it. t 11, ad~ 'l hf' J)U\\, t ~ of t ht-'; or,~uni.zcd ,:_fiurt of its eiut.•loyc~. lt O
t,1.kt! frou1, ca ,.,i,al and to securt for fn.bor a l~Ult ·.r ~hare of ·_ b.e w a .'1 tb
. h:tt Ja bor c11· at~·~"
·Q, Do e·s th. It bor or.g'"n 1i za tio11 t;; . •it= rt t ·1s·1 t pow--_- o,·er it~ iu di ,dd ual
n1,e1:nlict•:, i u t be w-rI.Y t h,t . I 11 a-,~e descri ht t.l, a ud, if ~o,. to v-..·b f t e. ,tent ., ........
• It does to a g::-t~nt P-x\ t 1 t, as )'t u unlJ Ila v,e &'<'·1 i'!·1 1·hhs c;;r ~ of tbe
lelegI"r,-lJ)ill"l'S' ~.rr:ikl". TlH-~ ~ 1•,~ ...,I)r •, d'1U l tt huli ,idn«t'I~, (!Onnect d '\l ith
th ,· l1rotl1( :rho(1~l of .i''r-llf\!' ~l~)]J ,p r.~ \1~luJ ,,~t:l-l· or~.11o·~ed '" o ,going 011 ~:trik ,.
bnt t 1.he " ·i I ri ·~·f . lu nu1jol't t..r ;.rnidiu.g t e1 t,, tb join cl 11·itl thf, ot h ,. rand \\".,. .J 1t uut.
Q·. ;\s4fU; tha.t - I taJ""e. it;. ~ ~ not a y se •t ret at all?-_\ ... ·s .:t •., t alt
Q. Aud it- i.s that }lar ieuh1 r thiog, tlia.t pa-rti.eula.r IHJvrer wbicli ,~l, la
bor or~ tu 1j za t ion 4!a n exer upon -.i ts :- embers" w bi.clJ ca pi ta1 cb icfJy·
dread.~,. is it not ~- In. other ·\v,01~,l., if ~ ou ha, e 1 .o · uch }Jow.·· r as tha.t
~n your labo.r organizations, ·wherei.11 is tue •. ffl.c~.ency of such org.auiza'io•n,s to d,eal snccessr°"U - "ith cap,it-;11 . :-" -. There are many otbe -., ,_,.a:'lS
by ·w.hich orga.uii.zed · ffo.r t wi I be a bene•tit to the workingm.an without
taking 8ll· •ib action as that,,.
By Mr~ PUGH ..
Q. \\""ba w·•c:H1.ld be tbe valu -· uf' a 'labor 01·ga.11 i.za tiou 1f' each ind.1 vidoal .m ember· wa not boun(l b:, the ·wi J. ot the m.a jority ,_ " . W ,eH,
t'bose question_ I would bn.y ·,e to take time to con -id r before. I · i onld
ma-k e an ans.,ver that w·ould conimi , me to an,s.tl11ug.
Q. What does he. orga\n ization exizs_" for or act tor· if them·. m'b ers of
'i' - r not bouud to o·b ey i.b,, action
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Q. I -, you.r org-auiza't~o:u . the telegrapb:ic B.rothe.rbood, .a secm't o,r..
,ganlza; 10n ~A,. Ye ·, .~ir.,
Q. Aud yon ar,e, I suppose, under a.-n obligation not to divo.Jge the
.m eans tha· it adopts or way adopt .- A. I am under a.n orbligatio to
diiu1ge nothing connected with i at all..
.,,. r Puon· ·
Q~. Do you. d eliue to an '. 'W , ·r for that reason ·t - .- . No,. _~r.. I was
eons1d.,eri'm1,g th " question in a b·r oad ·r as.pec.t than that, and I wifJh to
loo'lt i.nto i't a Jitt le m.ore thoroughly before,.aus·wering..
D, the C.HA.. BM.AN:
Q. But l un~le·r.s tand yoR ·to d.ise-Jain any secrecy on this point 'in .regard to whi~l11 have ask~l you., · hat labor org.a niza,t ions.are un.ders,t ood
to coutro. , b:,-- be ~ ill of ·t be m.a jority of th.e1r me .h ers.hip.,, the action
of the individual membei~ so far that when the m.a jority th1riks. that for
the genen l goo•l a. man should q.nit ·work ~n,g fo:r bis-employer he ·i e bound
·t o do it -A~ Tb ··N is. not.hin.g ,s ooret about that, because it, ISr an open
fac·t .
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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,Q .c:_.· ,o,v I a~k J~ou. again,, is it ·tb.a.t power whi,c:b a labor or,ranization
_x 1~ise · o,•,. -r it . i'Ildi , . id1u1I me·m b~r~ " ~hicl t:be fi.ual il.~lu8e iu tl1at
contract whieh Jflll 'ba,·e 1·ead \Yas dt>sign, -tl to §XOar-<-l n~d:n:~'t ~:..........At I
should :a:r it wa=:;. not t bat whoU,w,tJ Tin t may have hall som.. ·i uflnence

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e other .·011~id.· ·ratious urc ~uclt a~. . :r on tbink resu1t frorn 1·i1,. ·
llO'-' . r of" .nn or.~··1nization to inflrt.. uee 1•ubbe oiiinion l :,~ tlle Jn-C~t -:ta ..
t ion of 1·a ets in :tl,,f!:a .l to th gen ral eont jtion of" t ht! ·l'.-ork.ing ~Ia,· ~es r
- -A . Yes :· iu tl1Ht n1td in n ·nuy '\l"'ilY·~.. · ~be or~·an~zatiions of labor can
ado,pt n1ea1i~, fhi· JHe_t11lin,g !·l tcts aud fi~ureN to tbe publit,;, aud of
~p1·eedin= :abroud ht ho1· uud rad(- stati~ ti ·•·~ l\.-J1ii ~b win ev.e11:tuaUy \'rort
to f be· .J?:t! n er.al b~ tre1~111 en t ot' t b ·· ··.1ond it1on oif" t l1,e ·work in gm en.
Q~ ou ·t hiu k, in otht-"f wot-dR tha . pr-ovi~..ious ik~ t ha '. -,,~l11i ib yoa
11av·.- · read; in con tn ·cts pr se t, .d by e:m plo:rl~J · to i bei r· emJ>loy,·s, a:r&
tle,si J?n .d to pre-rent- t -.1 .. · worki111,g-m .u 1'ion1111~lk.f11g :··•n ·i utelligent, "LJJ-·1r al to public 01~iuion t hruu.~b. tbe.i r orga1 1iz~1tio11~,, f·nr ndress of ·b ir
:,:r1e·, ar~cc ., b:\" b1•,t.1-a1~,u~ u11 the organi znJion .. then1stl\~ts; hi ·t hat ~t f- .1..
'1 be b:reakang up ,o f the hit or or~:aui.zations ,, ,ouht. ba·v.e a f4:•t1deu~v, of
coin·se·r to kesep tb ~ labor a,g itatiou down ~111d to ·-~eeJ) labor in a t:iilate of
se1·ftlo1n. ~ t··'h a . · that v..~ .u i ,ih a ·; 1:•ret~eut ,e xi , ts, aurl. w nld Jlr . \"ent w-ork.iugm . n from taking a<l\au.ta,ge of a.· y i _telli·(re:ut means to imJl1ove their
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Q,. Are the coud~tion.s or obUgati.o ns of members.biJ•· in. labor organi·"' ,._;on°~
. , - . organIZli
.· . ·.· · ~.,· ·t.,I··o. DS.
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- ~a•, ~. - ·
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Q. In those organiza.tion.s which are open do you kn.o w wba-the co,b dltions of membel'sltip are t On wha eondition can yon joi.n, and what
obligati.on , a.re created by n11em·b ership 1-A.. I JJ.ai.: ,e no conueQ'tion wit4
any -organization,, exc,e pt th.at of the-t-eleg:r ap.hers, Hn.d. tha "t 'is a secre·t:
uae"
Q. Tbi1s execntiv·,e board of \t'b icb .~ on b· v·e s.pokeu b re, i ' the, ,a n ..
thority of that board secret-tbe e- eutof it• . po·, ,er and tha obligation
,,-liich it.sac ion impo ,on t-he me1nbers .,-A. It-is sn1Jt•08ed to be seci,et, but I believ i ,· is pretf. geoe\r«lJy known, as it ua ., be~n mad,e
kno,.-vn tbronJ[·.h tLte press and b . . fore tltis. oom1nittee, wha·t the. power or
that ex,eco ti ·e. board is..
Q. J, it the duty of a member to o'be)~ fbe .a.u.thorta:ti' -•e acti.on or
t.ba.t ex,e c:uti,·e boa1,l ·- ··· ·~ A n1~mbcr is ·opposed too ..· · y it,
Q .B u·t is there au ob1igatio1'l that b.•· lihall. do so, an oldi ·ation affect-,
ing his .membership j:f he doeg, uot !-A.. No; here i~. not. Tbe power
of this ,C\lmmittee was creat,e d s.p,ecial.15 for the obj.· ct tor \\"hich tbe cou]mittee w.as oreatet1 .
Q. What power is tber-: ·. nuder the laws of the orgauization to comp . l
obedi.ence bJ. . mewb r. r ; 1-,A . ba·t I lle-c liue io ans \\"'iet"■
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_: ,a v _ you ot'her doco:me·· ts w.bicb you desire to present, or is tber,t .
.an · thing· further that you ean state, be.aringnpnn thi particular ,p oint ·
-I f not, you may J)roc:eed to sorn . thing e-l , -.-A.. I d ~ d not , poo.t that
you w,e re gnin_g to re···ch tha-t pom11t thi .-, ·morning5 One of the matters
that I ·w.a·- instroeted to look np inform.ation a.bout mus stri.kes~
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

204:

R'E,L ATIONS IlETWEEN LAB~J,R AND CAP[TJ\·L .
· ORKINGMEN DY E .· PLOVERS ..

CO~DI , ION,S DIPO,·--= D, ON

Q,. Tbc 1n1rticula1· .mi.1tte-r I refe,rretl to wa .' the obligation whieh oo.m1~~nde ~ i n1 JlOfi:e nn wor. ki u '-"ll en ·18 t lie contli ti on of gi'\··i n.g them em,1, ~ u~ u1(l'ut.-A.. "l her wns a diflicm,dt.; two or three mouths a~o, 'itt
l,,, .•/bt· .tt~r·, .· . ., l ., a m.ou g t h . ·.· nl'Il loyc- o:r ·t be fa ctoi-y of' • i· • S. , imh~ ,n & ,Co., cigarette m anuf'actnre1 N. .1!e1Hling the settlem,en of the·
(li.fii4•,alty ou,e of tlH· eont1Hions or ·t cr:rus on "~h1cl t.he firm woultl agree
to njnstate.: tb,c workingoicu. iu its. ~mploy ,t·as that tl1ey . hot1lt1 'With<l.1.·,a ,,~f1 ·001 t'he labor o:r,Pa11 ~ za t ion ·-n th w hi~ t bey ha1 l co 1~ nect,e(1 t.h.emge J, ~<1'8 = There ·,l·ere fi\·e hutl(lr@d or .i.. huud.r~d _g irls tl.1ro, ,n ou · of
t··III'I 110 ·~ltlPUt..
The,~ hatl COlHJt-i(!tefl t1tem1s~I ··res w'il.h n, la bur O)sw .,aniza.
t'iott •. ,111,l bad iin a bod:s I·· ft the eru11loy1n• ·n t of the n1~m, and. ouc of t'he.i
-condition• , of tbe'ir re--en1:ploynieut was t.bat tb.ey shon.lJ w1thdra- ft-om
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t IIat orgat1 iza ion.,
Dy l\lr. GEO:R GE:
{}., Was, t ··,at ,eontrliti.on enfo~ed. ,~. ·.,. ,t was . nforced ~n all ca es
,v1u~1e ·t beY w~ut tack, bnt I beli ·le fhen.1• wer some ,vbo did not go
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t}., Di( the finn makt~ it a condition tha.t th ·.· em'p ,l o~, 6 shoulfl agree
to 't l] at. before being re aen11 •lo,-e·I 1-A,~ An a bsolu tel .· -~ in (U ·. pe nsa ble
t u 11 cl i ti on.. T 'Itese cond·i tion ·. a1·,_. al \1~uy~ i ndi .. pen .ab ((l
()~ And i.t" th eu1plo;,e wt\i:,,e, to ace~pt the ,condition be wHI not be
·n rr~i,, t1d back :·- t\. No. T :h se cases aie &O· eomrnon that tb :,; excite
11t1, ,t '. nrioL.itry i1 tb~ u1i11(ls of tlJ1
o~·e connected with labo··•· or,gat1izations.
I lH? OHAlB.1tIAN. R1~.llt on tluit poiut, ,··o u '\\"Ul p ea~ e ob• erve tbi~,.
, ,\ ~ ha,\" intrusted,to u~ tht1 ,lut,v of ,o hta.i 1dug tl,e tinite evide1 ,e e of facts,
-H1ul u·e cannot htke n w,~1u1per ~,t atetn i' nt~ or re 1>01~s or _
gen eral hnJU-essions ,a, . sn ~
,h e,·id ·nee.. ,\:e are obliged to get intbrmation fror11
i1,s res11on .ible source.:~ as \\'"e can o·b ta in it from, anrl to rec ·. iv evideu;oo
.,11 t~- und · r ce rt.: ·in ]lire -e ribed torn1s ·wb i, ·•h nre snppo · ed to give i't more
t r l ~ss authenticits . au,I upon · hat · ·, ·i d,e nce,. to 111~1 ke .·•ome report .
1 ·1 .~re-fore, it. i~ neces~ary tb:fft , ,e. ~houhl take with som . formality
l t~re m,atter which is o wbicl1 HUI ,) b alri '"'~u·l y t)1 rndiar o th •ountry
t 11 rough, the pre s,; and in .m aki ug statements npou these. poi·u t · _yoa
V "i,H pl.ea~ ,, ben"r thnt. in m n.u.t
Tlie ITNE~s,., \li e11.'! if tiime werie allowed . ..1 ny q_nant'it.y of a.bsol nte
,~vi denc0 eould b obtained on tb ,se llOints by writiJ1, to -dUI'" 1~ent
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'f'li1e C AIRlt.A.~ . Th re wf l be 'ti.me fron1 now nntU next Deeembe·r ,
.a ud t b a.t I sboubl s t1 p.po1·e \\~on Id be .u ffl.c1en t.
PROS. CRIPT'ION·
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lbe WITNE~s. Yf-·S . Her is a. copy of ,a n ori,ginal doenmen · · ri ten
l~y t Ito :ti.r ni f \\ ., :· . llog;rrs & . ut, boot a;ntl , hoe mannf'aPtur ·rs ·i n
(. inciunati , a·n d adclress d to another 'tirrn. J.!• ,ap·p ears to have been
i ci cular ·1. t.ter sent out to ·va:rious shoe ft 11lli~ in th.a.tvieintty, instruct,.
ht: theu1 tl1at '' the following persons a,r e not to be hired by the sub
~(•iri beris to th-, ag1•,e.e1neu 't re g.a rtl in.« feu1,a le help . " T.he o t~ol Jo,ws a list
.of uames,, sixteeu in nu bert ,o f eours · I eao iuak.e.not.bing- more than
,f\. !!'en rid stat meut b- -~
re as, to th ~ circnmstanc.e . sur1'1undin~ the 'is&n=
·i n~ of thi • 'Pa-per~ I ha e all the facts aud newspaper corr,espondenoP
I" .lat111g to the dHfic11lti-.· in ·C in.einuati.; but it is. v,e rv .lon_
g., an,l a gcod
◄leal of it ·i s uninteresting...
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

20,5

REL TION,S BET\VEEN LABOR AXD C.AP'IT-.\L..

Q. From tbe

•uo

rusa] .n f tho ·u doeuments wb.nt
you und.t rstntnl t\'"BS
the ,eason tho. e pt~:rsoll:S were •tX ilud: tl fron1 en1plQ.r · ent ,_
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from e111 r,ln~~ n L~n t simpl.J" becau ~e
the,,., refn ·'f-(l to w i t1 u1 raw from 1a bo,r organ i zu t mo n~
Q. No ot.b 1~ 1. e,as;on is sug_g,· ste,tl -A.. i o other r -ason..

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Q. '""'hat i~, the tlat of the paper .-A. , It ·s •(lated Februa,r~ 14, 188:t~

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"' Th . ·tbUowi n.g JlC:rson:s are uot to be hir : tl by sn b~cri,b • ra
to the agre • m. nt r · g.:ird ·ng fetua)e, he Ip . " Tl • n ihllol\~ · · lie Ii.st of n.nmes,
si x:t,een In nu u1 ber.. . ·IJ a,.. • 11, re· a lette.r in '"" lr:,t: h the wri rer sa rs " t b.·1:t
th "re ·is :t r,e ~nlar orgnnized bait'le W'a ging against L"ldy F .: rauk]in ..:-\ssem bly,, I thiuk t.hi.s will sho,r.."
Q. \\· hat is t.be ulu1r·acte of :h ose le, t·e rs or docum nts from. wli '".c h
_yot1 1·ead f- A~ Tb ea.re e11ortis niaile to me in my official -capacitJ as
aec.~retir,\:- of the exccnti\"C board of th ·_· Kui~bts of ·.1 -abor.
Q.. Tu~tt l tter st•enis to recognilz1e the exist · nee of 80me und. ,r '•tanding beforeh.a ·d <Imoug tho -· eu1pl0Jrers :. ·
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A . Yes, sir~ Anoth·· ·1 11oin' : Co:rporation · or fir1ns., in locaUtie • .- h. r,e
'th : re nre on ·_. or u1ore fi 1·tu .· doi n =r , he ··- a tue clu s uf wo1. k ,, fr-t <rne ut ly
band tln"m' el\~',CS .i nto or:~,a n.izatiuns 1or the purpose of , agirig tht 1~i,1d
, •f ,~a1--far,e a.g ·1 inst thC"hl, ,etn1:1loye ?,, or, as tl -• y choose to €!i.dl it, for tbe
1,--r1,os:&of d ,,ftndin,g the1nsel,"e$ against the attack . of tb. it. en1pJo, -~:,;.
lu ~01.ue ca,~:s tines a1ul 11e·nt1lti ·s .a re impo ad by tb ,· w fo,r the ,·iolatiou.
,o f thesf contracts bv auJ one o,f t'hei uuuiber; 'that is,1any .· 1n1do_ycr
wbo i i.o latts tho co11ditiontsi of f be. u~ree:m:_-nt b7f hiring auy of th . e·
(Jroscri b 1d 11~1111e.s l1a.s to 1>a ~ n fi u e of fro1.n $,100 to $ =: 00- .- . o \l'", i u con~
nect iou \l i th t bi~ point,, the.r e nre tln·ee fi. n1.~ in Al le h to trn, l)a-, ~ pl ace·
,,-1r·ch I Yisitt:tl recently' to . r) to settle a. difUcu]t)· tlut.t hn.tl .a· i~ . n be-•
t,vfen tbe ·"",hoc HHJU 1tuctu1•,~ rs fh.cre i 1ul tbeii1·' emp103es., a_!id I foHUd that
an a gi ee ruen t had been ea tt·-~ed i -1to bl l1 o.s-- t I1ree tuu r,lovers. th ~1 t
neither would :,·ielll thl~ ·pu~u1 iu dis1,ute-num(~ r, th · right of th ~i n1tl\· '.
to belo1 g . o a: labor ori~•a.niz1 tio -11u1,l~r a tJeunl't-S of" ii,00.. At auot ·- r
plac,e, Bur'l ingt,on N . ~J . ,, wl i b I ·. fadted in the Rrtm oonue · tion, tllfl're
are two Ot' f ree .~hoe firr . s~ In con,~-e,n.;;ation " ~itb the proprie·ro1 ot· tl10
J,o:, r_
wes.t one he tolcl 10,e tb~ ·t. - o wunl,1 not unde·r any ,·•i.rcuins 3llOes, _.ii'""
1o,v hi.s m :neither to form or to he oonue ted wi b nn or,;.,anization in
fhe ,c '" ·J· t, •e If,. but. he had no ol>, jcction to their j oi.ni n g ~111 or ga u izatioD., if tbe:.'f wish•··. d, in a 1other 1>1ace, a vi llag,e near Bu1•'I i!l ~on. H,~
said, howe\·e.r, that- lie would no·t .nJlo-1, tbe·m t,o .f orm a local bra1·1cb of
· ih :~ organization in the ·to,l"n. where th . :Y wo.rk ·tl~ I as.ked. bin1 why,
a - d he rep.li,ecl that he d ·d not tlJin.k the men. were capable of can .,-ing
ou the ht1 si ness of" snc·h an. or,,,.an ization
Q. - ad there or, hru: ther-e lbe :n snch - n org.anization formed th re t
•- A. Such a.n ,or-ganiz· tion. was in exist n ee a:t th ~ time, a,nd. the :mem
ber· of'it-W'ere di _-. charrred. from his emplo . ment.
Q. : ow m, ·ny · .......A. O_ose 0 ,11 o e. hun({red.
Qi Was th.a t becaose of their joining the organization or 'b ein.g already mem]>ers of it-, or ·w•,1 · it 'b ecause of some or,g anized . ·ftbrl on tbeir
p · rt to -~e-t hi,gher pay 'I -A1 T.h e me·n claim.e d tbait it,~ -as.solely because
they joined the orgauiza ion.,
_
Q, TheJi had, made no claim for additional pay,as roo onderstoo4 ·T A, N'o,, sir;, the wav they reported the matter to me wa-s ·t hat the fom•
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

~lit Hronntl · o tht. ::d101~ ai (l to·l d . Jr n1 tha-t. tbtv n11 t either \Yi h~h~u,,; f1"0n1 the or~aut.zu( ioti or leave, thl1 e: n11>lOJ""tueut,
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11a . "as ti1 . 1u1111e
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11111,,..tou . N Ji' '1sl10 -~ · 1anufaetu1 1 · ,..
( • About how manJ tu n d.o tbe,y . r11p· oy ,,_ • T e1~ en1:ploy fron1
tl1 i· ty to fJB~ u1.1 41' • Tht. i-- arc 't o otlJ r· ·l•o fir ll.S in tbe place. · 11
laborers. thr ,v I out of eu111lo uu11J : ·, re abont one huudrc<I in numb r,
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~•·1nizatiou, ~-ud did tbr.r return to, ·oi·k on doing so; or did they 1o~et.11 plac ·. - 'HUI \\T"l .· otb,-r lu lJ) t'l'U}llOJ tl ~-A.. 1fh y· ",. .I} out au,l r 1 ·t" 1in · t l out :t co11side1 .-.i b I. 1~ a.~t h of ti 1It€ ,, . · 1.dea17"01 in.a to .·. ecu e •C:Ut ~,
pl,o.~·r 1ent elsevrb ·, re ,Sorn · of tb u1 ll\ •1 1--t,ed a ittlt shop of ~ heir o,, u
lta'f'e nn h n.rd frozn · h . nt for ..on1t.t. tit1e, but I beli,e re f · t a ·m~jori(V
<1f theu1 ha, c l, .- ·'n i.nd.ncetl to go back into 'tbe emp:JoJ .m:eu of those
:tiru1 ·. a Uf l for~~,..,.,e~ r t ltei r nl1 gian ·• t ,o the labor orgt u ization
0. \:~on nutl rstu.nd tlta . uone of tl1en1 w -; ·r e ft . ;•e:,~ d back ,,_ ~ho ,d id
uot for, u·,e:1r an f.danee to th or~-mluization ~-- A.. Yr. . . : s'ir(1.. D hl t _- t>-J l'c't rru to work at the ~a.me pa, ·t hey h at1 b , n r.e·eei.vi n00
v·lu~u the~
. q-1 uit ·• ork 1' A. Tha - I nu unabJc to ·tu .,~er.
(). ,. 0 _1 nu1y !!O on aLd .s t ~ -anv· oth r .adtlitioual roatle. . th.at- . on.
think. ou 0 :h.t o be bronght to th..e attention of h con11.mittee.- · • Before.
Jra,Till:£' tl1ia point w1~b to ~1.:r that if yon d s,.h• d ·f ini aud ab 0·111te
tit,..,t ua nt , ~ . oru to or conni·metl b for ,he prop r ant.boritie~, and ·
t: an la ·r; n Ii r.t l ti n1e·, I can 1>r d uoo a 1J <1 u ·1 uti ,f of s uc'h stat . m-en ts
~tud ·nbmit them to tbe · . ommit ee.
~r11 · ·"HAilllIA , ;\r , hall ·b ·. · a,d 'to rec : i e .a.n~ i.~.ng th t yon ean
dnuit that l, ,u rs n11on tho subject w- ire in,·est1.0 ·a -iu.c.r., .and you can
su bmi· it "t you ,c onvenience.
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Tl1e \ 7 IT. -Ess... ·. , 1·, welt I l1a, e h - r · ome stati ti re]a;tive o
~trH~ s
I l1a,-e 1)~ . ·tired ~~orne flsu.r,: on the snbjiect,. as r,e q,nes:tecl b ..
tb committ :. .I · teit·t ed w·hen I \\"1JlS. on t'he stai d b fore tba.t I did. uo·t
think. tha.t 1.,t1·ikcs1n"·.e,re g·e u -rail - us fnl as 'il. 1nt.ans of 1S , t ling the th.fiu~ult.iel that. a is ·bet.w, en em11loy rs and. th .i eu11ll0Je. ,. , he stati.~,.
ti<~$ o · t 110 e oo nu tri, ,, from , Lt i c'b -"~, l1·a , •C b e11 .,. bf o p,.roeu.re fl.g nre ,
b~ar· on't · bis , r-ie-w. O ·wi'n g to ti . · inf:' -eqneucv f si·clJ troubles in tbi
couaitry and ou:r l1m:itetl. 1iu~·i lities f.or o:u.tb riu,g 1ubor ~ atistics, and
uwin r al-o to the ob·· 1a ·~leSa in tb . wa,y ot' e' tabU· l1iu~ boartl fort.: 1 .
1n1rpo~ · of procur1ag sn i•h "·tatist1cs in t ,e v.arion S'tatr~s, it is iluJ)o · -·
1H1bl · to ~;dtli · r a~,e.11~at l~ ~1do1·1uation on this , nbJ~c .- in the ui eil Stat ~s,
lnit iu . ·t ,·e1~'":d of th .· conntri s of ·,uro})t~ ~·uc · ~ ati.sttc are ,·,e ry carefull.,_ 1,,r~l·J>ar,etl, n1ul J. c~1n ~i,~e 1;ou ~•,uu1 : , .tigu1"e·~ '\bO\\ring how str,ik@~,
lu1,··e 01~ .- rat~d th,ere. and 1·1·01D tllM .- ftgure8, i , ery fair in~ re1l,ce cau
be drawn a· to their 11t.ilit.- o:ene1 .,Uy iu tbis cou11 -t~'f a 1-ell as, "u th st.
ot-her' couutri, ·s~ In t,he, tt"J:l )~-~.tu,:; from ti.le beginning of 1870 to ·.he
eutl O'f l:i7 9 t'b num1Jer of ~t.1·ike ·• of "Rh~· ~b w . ·- ha Y .... a reeonl i . 2,~12..
(J. \V'l1 r, · a,~e tbo··•,e t1ike , been f'- . Pri.nci11all5: in ·-ug,] uud.
· ran 'e, nntl crn1an~r.. Ju l .· 70 t'IJere ·_ ere 30 trike · ; :in 1871 ·t .11 cl).'
1,;o ere US Rt1'ik .s ; in 1:S,72 tber,e v.·e1•,~ 345 ··trik · ·-~; in 1873 ·.lte1~e \\"'ere 305
sit1-fk · ,; in 187-1 h ·
··_ J c- 286 ,~tr~kes; in 1.s,7·5 tber . 1'"ere,.~45 1
str1k,es;
. 1s
· ~·~re-~
'>'l9.· . t ri··k~e: ; ·1u 1_. :s,.1
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-.. ··1 st r1Ek""es; u1
the . were iGs str·i kes :, h1 1819 lu~r,e: we1e 08 ,s trikes.
.bese strik
were indnlgell 11 bv '(l.itI rent trath:-•-. -car1.1Puters, p nmbeF~,. . a .ous,
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~otl -~''l.:Utlrs.. ~;, tto!! Ir~.~ 1uls, i!l,tid otl,,t. r.s. ~riw· en:;.]-ulint·r~ ;n•,~ eousidera ~1~~ j~ t~x:c ·ss or :tnJ-- otlu·r ,clf,,s'" of !abort r$ :i1 ilu nnn11lu 1· of their
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I uu1 ·"·iD11t1g to snbinit the ·f igure .-Q. ]Ju uot the :n ti.1. ; paper --At• Not sir; I sho11hJ. p-r efer, 'U Ot.
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b1.·ick-la~ . 1~ · uu1 --ous, plastei·er-s-, and laborer& Now,, the 11· ost impo1~
tant fac _he:r•e i . _;he amount of ti·m .. lost ,o.- ac.c:ount ,o f these ·~tt~ik.es
Tllm LOST n · · STRIKES,

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

BJ' t'lt~· _DAIRUA.N.:
... ,., Tha total, l uuderstand, is, tbe total time of tbe duration. of. the
s.trik s i.u the a,girrliga.te duriu o- teu _y ear ·. f- A.. Y · :S, ~lr
t

Bv •;; ·. GE.o·:eaE ~
Q., When yon ~ny there ·" -as l, 774 week-s 1.ost i? o~e year, 18,1 0, wha;t
110 ..
. ·ou 01ean t·- .··,., I m• ·.an · .lta the strikers in all th · · "tr.i kes, re,o orded
iu that yea1· coo1bh1e(l lo .t that ntimber of ,veek8 in th .- aggregate.
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ho,~ ·1na.ny persons l\.. ere enga,ged io
t.b.ose s ra k<$., ha Y t : ~rou - . · . Yes,. sir.
Q. G·+,,.e. us that 1.1t.forn1a tion~ the u, . nd l t , ill expJ.a1u. the ditlicalty.
Q., ·_

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lrt\re no da; ~

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·how

...\,. Ju J.871 .. a1noug t e eugince:rs., nnrnh ring 9.,000, t.be strike lasted
2:u w~el~s :m aking 1. los·s to · ba1 bodr of · ,900 UUO,t
Q. ]Jae·~ l1a n1ran alt t lrrongl1 Europe - 1\. • .A.s. fair as tbese s.tati~~
t:c,s { xteud.. lu 1S71 tbe 111it and I nit tuu.I"erg, 1,500 iu utunber, .ere
u n a ~tri kt. for 40 w·e eks nn( lost $:JUO ,u ,o ; in l 8 71 the co] 1·•l~'I s, l ,,,t3UO of
thP1n ,, er,· nn at trike t·o.r l::! '\\',e~·k ·;, ~1nd Jo ·t- $1,0-~0}JUO; iu 187~' ·t he
ll1on~e~ b Ii ldfrs, ·i O.OUO in nn1nh r~ ·\v~1· . on a str-i f" , .or 1:::, wt ~k -, ;Jntl lo~t
~tifU OUU; in - 8,;J the ·o]H, 1·s ,,n: re ou n. st- ·Un-' 1 \\~P ...1~- . there \l"~re
70 000 or t u~·1n,. oud tbt\\t lost $3,,, JO 000; ·i n 1878 tbe ·tr ~k~ of 300,()W
cottou. hcirulzs la~'tt~d U ·,veek._, ·uul th~1r 1 ,-.ss ·, ,, ~us. "'l. l aO.000; iu · 877 tlae
J 1.a so is \1 e1•,c on trik -_ ,:J. ' w,e e ;.-•,~ ' 1 7UU of th "
), n1, ',l nd .bey lust1$ 2·:so,000.
'f·be u u1 on u . los i in wa g( S aIon b~y th 1 - tri kt s e1n bratetl in t bese sta-.ti ~ti( s~ 11t1t taki11JJ!: tnto . cconn · tb ·•i: ; donat·"o111:s" ,,1~ a~tl . entlered by otb . r
orJ.;{nu1zfftions whi le h~;•,e " ,e:r,e on , trike,, i'" e,~tin1ated a.t ·_·J2,aa 700
,t lu.ti11~ tlJ . ~. pt ric,d of t · · n ,-.,ears,.
'"'o,. , ou· of all. tl1es0 strikes,. :l(~gre~a ti .1~ ),.J n2· in u u u Ibcr, hat ,vet -~ et1 n·ag,etl in du1~iu g th is :pe.rio<l
l ,~u )d_ n .'::;, ou l,\c" i l are I,. tu),r u t l lla ve L ~n ,-r, ou b,\' the ., rlk era, 189 .u re
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kno,rrn to b 11,~c l,l·en lot--t, aud Ul cowp1 0111 .~sed n akin g Sal a.ooount~d fo
and. lea,·ju~ :-.OUl nnaccou11tecl for 1.:i-olJu,blv lost by those eugag d iu.
tb m~ ·
\l' hat do :\"'OU iu£ -r ··rom thoijei figures .·- A.. There. are man\~ infettne@ ._to b tlra.wn frou1 such. a state of .a-fi~tirs ..
i(J.. I f,J·01. have an ·y f t1rtl1.e·1 facts, pe1..b aps, . •OU ·l1ru:t bett· r go on to
Jlres n t tbem, lea-v iag the inference-s to be d ra. wo bereatl.N.
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STRIKE -_• A

AII,URE EVEN WBE.-

· ~:LL ORGANIZED ..

A .. I was going ·t o sa-v that these ft;,tUre . • bow th.at as a me _ns ~foottl in g ~l1.ffl.-~nl t' ies between e1 u plovers an~l e, J)loyetl, st ri ke,s ,are t hsolo tely

a failure,, Bll'd perfect organization and di ·ei1,Ur1e seem to be no

-01~·

Sl .ccessf'nl th n~ n11orgau i.z :id I ._bor,, bee -nse w·heu yon _ ·_e 300,00U.
hands re.u1ainin,g out io a body intact for nine ·weeks,. and then lo -~
··ng thei·r .s trike an.d all thia vast ;tto.ouu.t •o f wa,g es hesille:s., i·t i ·• convi,nf ~ing 11r.oot th t s-trikes are not the ·pro_per method of settling these
di ffl.c ul ties.
Q~ ow many rednc .-ions, of,.. ages, which ·would otherwise have beeo

made did those 1t;trikes, prevent,.

1

Have 3irou COUS,idered t.hat

. ·f- A
- :..1n
- , . atri
- . k·- es prou-di
·11. ~~-b 11
. . . ..:1 some
tion
·• :_ .• I. t ..b
-~ 1y h•ave exert~

wa~.

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fl Bence i~ - ·t h-at

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.4 RBlTH.l TIO~ ..

The pro1 -r infei~e:uce to ·oo draw~ fro:m tbi - ,s.tate. of affiairs would b ~,
I think·, that attention .s honld be dir-ee·t ed ·to the necessi.ty uf mea;: -being de·,:-·i -ed for deal ~ng with. th s llifficu·1ti.· _ s in --ome otber wa,~·. ~·\ rbitra.t ion has bee1 resort J. 'to in th•e ohl ,c onutr,y, bn·- L ha$ not inade
much progress 'i'n t l1i -.c.onntrr.

,,. ·n-r

STRJKE: ~: F AIr ..

Q.. ,bo •. fi.gu~1 ·_ J1ich yon ·hu-'V·_ lH, .·-ented seeu1 'to :~/I otr 'tba·t st'rikP~,
1

ha.V'(! uot 1,ro, ed. t'h ... proper r n1edy ior l.a.uoi trou.b e .. Ba.ve you. gi,Ten
<l:any tho ight- to th .- q,ues,t1on wlt!J · trike ba ,~·. not resnltetl in the 1,ro-tec 1.ion. of ·1alJOr · -A.. A sim.rde an,s .· ·e r will an.s·w r tbat~ T.ho - ~ngag l ·i n strik ~R. lnl,:e had nothing to, corn.hat capital, it.I.Ii e •c ept their
,e mptJ· ~tonui.ch ",, wb ~le tbe ca1>italL tN hai~ hatl uuhm.ited · uaucial resource ~and ba,..,e be n able to tar,-e the w,orkingrn n into .:o bm."-_ .i on.
Q. Wh.a.'t; is you ·i dea as to ·t he ad.,..antage. ,o ·t he -· mployer prodncetl
by trike_s 1· Do the em.ploy ,-:rs . .enemll . make out of' strikes! Do they
ff-et ri,l of their O'f'erstooks, if they ·h ~,.. e any, antl when the e .ploJ; e
co,mf's back does be eo·m back ,g en.e rally • ·t the same rate of pay thu.t
he tli,d before., or, as ,a ,g ·neral rnle, tloes stan ·.a.tioo compel. li.im to take,
'les .; or are the. price~. o · the Jl·IUtluc·t :i ncreased, to. the. ad .. autage o.f
the 10 f uofactuJ1er.,. by· mean,s of' h i::i. g,e tt i ng ri ll of his o,Jd st ouk :-A ..
Tbe em:p•lo1 -·r -_are. able ·i u many ,ca ~et1 to get rid of .accum. olated s:tockK
the . .. no don.bt impose harder· t -rms
on baud, aud 'in. ·n om,e rous. ca
11poo tbeir emplds,es ·. ·hen they rett1n1,.. to make n:p for t'be lo '. ,ses ·which
tb.ey tbem.selve· h.a;ve sustaine(l or --- ich th .,y im.agine they b ve sos~
·t aini d by the. stri.k •
Q,;, Then, too, th,e diminuti.on of the stock on han.d and on th.e market
enables th ..m to inereas ._ t__;lf' p,rice of' ·w·h a.ttb .-c- )roduce ! -.A .;, ·· es,sir;.
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someti mes.

,Q. a\9,e xoo gl,-en thong'bt to the. causes of th.e. · ,s trikes ·- ·A. 'The,
onlI tlliHg th.at I am aware of· a -.· a caa e. fo.r· .s.trikes in gene·r al is the
grow111g know'le,lge on tbe pe- t ·. f he laboring· classes tllat they are
not being t!e&t ed prioperly b ·· t'beir employer&
Q,1 Do you thiuk i.t is tha,t wboH.y ,_or ~a~ th -·. oon•lition of the m.a rket,.
C(),mp,ellin,g the. m.anufactnrer him -elf r0fteuti01es to ·in some way reduce
the ultimat,e co· t of tbe thing 11rodneed ·i · order that be may sell. it,
le.ad to the reduction of .-. ages as au :i mportant element in the ,oo&t I
Don.'''t yon think th t :m~y sometimes ),e ad to a reduction of wages by tbe
employer, and, in oonsequen ce, to a strike on the. part of the em...
ployes .-A. I.n some CBIJeS an_ attempted reduction. ~f_wages. Jeade to,
strik ·, but in th.· .'- neralitJ,· of cases ·,trike· .are caused.by t .,e emplos,ee.
see.kio,r fo,r hi.gher 00m·pensatio1·1.,
Q.. He~e is tbe ma;n nfacturer w~o ~n t,h e one h ·nd, g·em, as. a- result
of' it all,, a,,c ertain price, ·hi.ch is fixed and limited b tbe m.ark.e t ,,, aloe
ot'" tl1 _· p,r otluct ; and, on. the o, .b er 'ba:nd, the•r e is the· cost of produ.ictio'D1
and the element of wa,ges ente·r ing into -it.. Now, don't you think that
so:metimes, and i'o fat~ a ..,., rnle tbe ewp1.o Jer may be willing t.ba·t tb.u
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wor king1nan sba.J.l ha·,~t . ·h dr · ag . ·i t 11.· can ,o ul.Y =:et a l'i,,,in.g· p·r o&t fo.r

hi.mse'11 and b·i, e.a1dt11l,. and. t-bat sou ,etime8 i.n such cases..a tilrike uray
be a.ttem·p t il when tht"i n1aunfactn ret rea ll,· ~annot ·_nbmit to the. de..
14, C-(5, L,AW')

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

dn '\: .r) 1.'1..;, 1. I .'"'I··ne u h,r hi,~ b~1 · " ~a I t•s '' i t bo l't 1·irir1 . 0 11 I' • ~r., l f : ... · -,. XO;; sir ; l ~i,.- ·t ~10 1 ,at,.t.1. ~· ,,nth you h1 t hat,
lJ,. I wa1rc to ·all , our att~utiou 'to 't hat as1lec.t of the matter,, w'lll'iitd1
vuu see i~ • be mauu tacturer~s, or employer's view of it. Is .it nn't an iH.in ·x to tl1e erintll,o str ,h; ueU a·~ t,o. the· worki.ng111en that these 101,1,g intt·i·i-upti co.: of l1.1~h1e.~.s sho lid ta :""e 1~,l ru!e T-A~ lteertainl~f i.~ an i1uur,~

m,a ud:;.

UI'

1

tu hi1n.

Q. 'Tht~·n, a, ..J . r H.•i ~ ·bs would uot fhe e-1uploye1"8 of ·E urope, dur"'n::
tl1is long Jlt riu(·_ f.n· ·, thiel1 ·v ,fJtl ua,ae the ktati.Kties here, ha f '.\'i,eld,ed to
?be demand · of' [aht r 1-a.ther tbau ·uu,~e ,iate1Tupted their o,,;i~ b11 . iJ.Jess
a11t'I iuofit's! iif tla1 v ould, llaTe· zsubn1itte,1 "W ithon·t rni:n !-A.. I ,c ould
:cl 11,. ··,,·er that' by in sta ncin g on r o'u-'11 itu Ii.ri{1.11a.'I ease, the. -_ trike of' th -~
t \·'"g-r·Aph.er,~. Th ·_. ,e ·i-.: no rea ·en why the Westeru: Un,ioH Uom11.111tv
s·11oultl not Jlay t.he i1ur~1,..0 ·- ed .og-es, as,koo tor lt\" tbe Brotberhood of
T~l~~r11pb@rs- Jo, ·r~asor1 . I DH:;\a u. d.e11end.ent upcm, small pr-oflts mad,e b~
1

tb

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COWlJ3Dl~~

Q. Do you t-bink +:bat tb :- relr1tiou··~ exhitin,g between the Wes,t ern

Union Co pa.ny and its l!·mp,l oyes .i s a fair revr&sentat'ion of the rela.
ti.OHS e --i,s tiog· hetw.een ,emp·[oyeli-- anti --mploye - in 0th.er bt1siues.ses in
tlJ.i s .a nd in other non ot1·i:e~ . - A.. I thn1 k i is.. Tbe-ir relations are al).
I

based on that pri.nei.ple.

_

(~.. You ,lo, not _;.Jai m t-ba t. in this particular ,c ase of th _tele :~r~p·h en
,·ou bat9e a gri.~van.c,e w·hicht eom11ared with th geueral gri vane.ea, of
l .tl•o·r, 1s at :i'll Px ~e -s ive,.do·_- -ou ,- """4. .. " e claim that we ha ,.re grievance&
th~tt ought to h r in _-- di ct
Q" J nuder ~tatHI that; but do you claim that ~·our grievauces are any
,1t~- 1·s,c t·ha11 tbo.~ of ht >or in gene,.r a t ,-A.. .- - o ; I cln:im that aJ I lalmr

l

1u.; gr1~1~;;1uee~

th:at tUI;g ht to be 1~e:medied -

Q~ Anfl ~. o,u 1, .:lif.f l - th.at th ~- 1~·al g·e nniue cause of str1kes, ru,; a
ru1t ··;, i~ th ,eflort.· ot h1 hor to g:-t a ·i·tu r oon1 pen -: ti oH, a11:d that tbP
rea,soJ1,s of t.b~ employe1·s. for 1. ,t tl bs,i n~ to, a-e cede. t.o the tlema ods. 0f labor
~ tt·~ not ha5Wd n1~on t 'u~ f~.•~t tlla.t,, as a g,ei1eral thin_
g, t iey eanuot ,~uh•
u1 i1 \\'itl11.,m t ruin or ;:\Titbout b,Ft· ··1t injury to ·t h ·ir- bnsiuess
1

. \.
. :Soi i,~r - [ do no.·c t-biuk that h1 the eauRe of ,s t-rik,e ·.. I look

UIJOH

~ttfk C\'.- a8 tile direut outcom , of td1r1eation. ·T he working c·b1sses aR
t lu ,7 bt.c~o me d.- -_ ated ha,·e a cl~ar,e -idea of - heir r-iJ:hts .
Q. The qu . , ion is, no't4 What is the rea ·on tha't JOU s.tnkc'' but it j ~1\"h at i,t, tbe rPasoi t tb at t b e:1nploy · 1·s refhse to accede. to ,yo:u.r de~
?u;1.-n ds T- - ~-.~ That \;. becau _-_ ~. " a~ I said befor ·, they fear tb JJ01we.r nf'
organized labor .
·Q . Bot th+~ l ow,· :r ot th~ 01·ganizaJion is sati tietl ·_lieu i't ba g·ot
better pa,J" for i -., [Hembers.. ,S ,ow-, 1'"hy d.o es uot the emploJer agree to
g.i ,~e bat be.tter p~rt,~!-~ ~ In tbe fi:rst place, btieause t. 1.at iu,-olv·es. th.e
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reco.gn1:tion . _ r tb - - o.r~aniza.ti,ou,,
QI] But s tri.kes f"Xi ·t .d l.0111~-r befoJie tl ese labor or.wan izations e -isted f........ A ,. There •:-onld 'be no ~trike without an o-r,ganizatio,o.,

Q~ I m,e an lw.for~.i. t-h - · exJ~teuee of t he·.~·e genera] tr.ad.es unions .. 11.ieb
CO\"(~r the w bole eoc u t
st 1·ik -~ occu rr _d au1 on g the em ploy of i nd.i.-ld nal em·p,J.()~y ers ;1.ll ,o,¥,er the country and al over the worb.l lon be~
fore tbe·-_ ·•-. orga u iza.tion / p:ot to be ,_,001 mou. Now,[ w11 y iiK, it that _as, a
111h.\ the rnli'Jtlo·· ~er, doe . uot agr -e t,o pa,, tl1e. h1c1 1ased_,compen- at.ion
t'l _,1u ~tnd•·- ii1· s·ti t f ·~t: t I · o ha,· .h·· - husi n ~- : in tern1 pt d f-A.. Because

r,

es

1

he i1nagin~~ .l ~t \ y r -fnsinc, tn <'1omp,ly wit-h the d _r.n.a.nid-· of labor b-,

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

211

RJ,:~LAT.I O·N S BET\\'" E.EN LABOR A-SD DAP·ITA.L.

-ca.u ~u.re belp 'from ·th.e un.e mployed surp'b m ol labor ·w bieh will tak-e

tL · 1.•la-00. o'f those

1rl10

strike, at the s me or at ch.eaper rates than he·

is a 11--eady paying.
By , ,r. Pu·a: :
Q.. T.a ke the eas ·· of the.Western Union.Telegraph _
Company and your
stiiko; how would oom.1i1~ying with •. our de.m ands airect th.e standin,g·of
flu~ stoo·t of the W est-ern Union Company in the stock market; w,o uld
1

colDl)hanoo with. yo,nr dema\nd,s iu,c.rease t;be companJ·'s expense account
., tnd lessen it , dil:idend ,, .a nd tbereb: r-ed.n oo _·t he p-r ice of i.t ·, stoo.k in
the inark 't 1-- A . . It . ollld certainlv iuc.rease its. expense aceouut.
Q. Aud less.eu tb·c di ,-bJend.s,. and in that ,ra-y ,a ffect t'he 1~1i.ce ot the
stock in 'the. marke-'l Now, may no·t th.at ha,. .e been oue-re-a •.on.why·they
4\eclined to

with your dtnnands,. .a ud w, y· 'this prooeBB of the
;tn-a-d o ·. J redu-etion of wages.,o f ·which , -ou sp ak has be n: going on 1- A~
Tl1at i1s proba·b1., · on:e cause
·
(!. Ia it uot ma:ni·fes.t that an. i nerease of" tbe .·XI>- se a.coon nt by i 11 ci~asiug the pay of t.he operators, ·,voo Id reduc · tl1e di\'. id.eDd,s, and
uec,e8Sarlly affect tbe r.,a;ltn,e of tbe Ntock. in tl.1:e ma·r k.e -t 1-A.. If 'th ·tlividen.ds ""ere too hi,gb. :and. the p-rice of ·the_s:toe k ·wa.A.too h igb alread;y-,
·tbe1-e is no reason why· th.ey sti,ou.l not suffer , ome ttdoetion in th,a-t
'l'liP~a,Q I am not "talki:n g about tbe reason . h,y the1s:houl•"~ or s~onld not be
1-cdu,ood. I am not un,i,,e r · i og to justify tlu"! Colll pauy·,·s. refusal to com,.
Jdy ·,vith :,;our demands,. but ouly st1ggesti.ng t.hat that is. probably· a
£~us" of their ~fusa·1. tbat, to eom11,1T wifh yon dem..a.nda b' inereasln.g
_y our 1,a.1· would n~e ari llJ 1·,ed uc.e,. their fli rid,end,•·, .and ·iu t.ha t way.
afteet th.e pr.ice of tbe stock of t be. com·pany.. -N ow,. is miot ·, ba· especially
.so in 'the case of the \Ves.t em I nion Uompany, and so to a ·1ese.,ex.teD't iu
t be case of m.aJJufaetul'iog iodust1·i
oeraJIJ f-A ~ lt ·wonlt1 undoobt..
. .ill:,, iufloence th dividends. ou th stock of the con11u1uy ..
B,v the CRAIIUIL'i
:
Q. A~e tbe1-e an:.v other facts or sngg stiob.s tha, ) oo de -i.re to .nb-111 it !- A . I " ··o uld like to g·o f~n.DJ .in to tbis, q nestion of stri k'es, their
,causes. and th.e means[ by which th y could be poo,T,e ntoo-tb.e :mean8
1vhich tile diffluulty· betweeu employen, autl ,e m·p loy,e - ooa.ld be ad.ju.:ted, a-n d other·1natters connected ,vith tbe laborp1-oblem, but I would
like· to su·b mit, mi- iews in wr.i tin_g,. because I could m.a k,e a. mo11e eoua
1. ooted. sta tem_, .:oi in t1l . - wa!t"', one ,v hicb. would be more satisfactocy to
m~rself amd probabl)~m1oresatisfactory to b.e com.nlittee. I should prefer
to subm·i t ,- papet" on. the snbject..
00111pl* ·

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By- Mr. GEORGE ..
Q, Would you be wiHin,g to ·be quest ion,e d in re.fere·n.ce,to the ,coo te·n t s
-0f the pa_p er after it wa .. 1Snb-mi:tted !-A. Certainly.

The CHAIRMAN.

· .- ·. hen.•can

-,on sttbmit i·t ,.

'"fl1e \VtT . ESS,. I ·w ill prepare i.t as, s.p eedily .a s I ean,. and ·may, ·p erlui1>s, be ready to subm.i t it by th.e ·midd.l@ of next, w eek.. In coun.ection
,\·ith .the last questio11 . put I wish to say th.at wbetber tbe stock adm
1

, =a nces in th:.: ma-:rke or the. di T"id.end.s i nerease irui.kts no difference to
tbe wo1·k.ingmen. Tha ts solely tl1e busin . ss of the eap,i'tali_· t. We
-claihl the i-i ,k ' to a,s · such wage :, as w·e. think our sen--i,oos a·re worth.,
·11·it: · out auy··reference to the dl~·iden.ds on the stock.
·
BJ Mr~ PUGH:
Q,. Bnt n1ay· no that be the ·r easo , that, the e.mp.l,o yer refuses to pay

"'

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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m(irc wages ! Does · ot that :f urni "h an explanation of hJ.s, refusa·i to
·•ompl'r with Jonr demand for ll1igber :pa:v .- A. Tbat m,ay be one reason,,
a~l I U~·~1■-1,~e·· ~1ad
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B
Q.. You don't m•ean to sa.~~, of eour e,I t b ~• t 't bt.~c~unp ·neation of 1·1.b r
,ougl1 t to be wit I.Joo t ret· r -H ,- · to tb p1 ofi ts deri "'e d ron1 the product
of t ·at labo. · ·; J on 1n ean that the l~lJore·r sbon d. ha ,..e a ri asonab]c.1compen -ation in 11 ro1lorti on to 'the 11ro6.t ·m.ad. t·- .--. ·.·. o ,I I w011ld not.
.,ay that.
~"' You do not inenH to sa:r that labor is. e.ntitl d to a ~ompen- ation
to be fi.x~d -· ,itb ut refe.r@nce to the ,~aJu o,f its product -A. I elahu
t ba.t th e ·p ro:H t to the capita.l:i t ,s hould not be tafH.~,.n iuto cous1clerati,o
at all in cletermiuiug t 'ii JJri . of la.h or.
Q. \Vb. - not !-.Ai ·ecanse the capitalist doe~ not earn any of tbe
JJrofi t t bat b i secure.st
Q .. I snppos that if th tel gra.pb. eon1pan~ did not make more t:ban
enough mon y to Jlay ,$ 8 a mo.nth f.o its e,m plo:,~ -,. 1 a,·1ng nothing to
1u1 . tor tbe \l-- ear and tear of Jt · 1da11t,. tor · ~ ·11i.ng up it li e,s,. and. fo,r
th e managem,en't of the busi ~ss you ·wonJ.d not cla*m tba.t bPi: laborer
ongh.t to, get all tl1at \1 .a n1a l,e ont
the ent rpri P, and let the bn~ine s go d.Ol\''H ..'-A. ·_ '- nc1 :·r th..·- p · ·.-· .· nt x -te -·· the ca11itaUst ha·-_ th· •
dividin"' of the 'll'ro,t n- t of tllie 1.- bor of 'ltis emploses.
Q. . That has nothing to fi.o with tbi . point. '"the· ques,tioo i , \Vhat
proportion of th - jo·nt J>rodu t uf labor a:r1d capital. i.s labor ntitle(I
to ~-A. It is -_ nti led to I aH.
Q, Bot if it took
th :- ·_ bus.in · s, -oul,~l bav to ,stop,, would i.t not f ~ ·. .. Yot necessarilv
-. ..Q,! How would you carry it on .- A~ we·n, I ioten,d to sho . i·u tb.e
. -b· 1· ·prop,o ·e t·_ o sn b mi~
··t .h o,w· ·t··;b· . -b u -1ness
.,
paper \\' Inc.
cou Id
.-,. b... cam.. <I on .
Q. . underistand ·s-,ou to say that the laborer is ,entitl d to ,comp -asa-•
tion withou·t referen·-e to the \"a1ue of tbe joint ·p rodoc. - of hi labo -a·n d
the. c&J)ita.1 in,· sted ~- -A .. I 1
said without ref. ,rence to the profit ot th _·
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Q.. V· ell, of cou~se: tb.e net pr-o·fit of -· b _.· ,emp)oj"e1· is ·th.: · net \"aloe of
'the product aft r the paym ut of t.h.e cost of production~ -~-ow, you do
not mean to . y that-fb laborers d: ·1nan.d the -_ · ole of ·t hat, lea -ing
nothing ibr the co -·· _·oua ..ee of tb e bosintssii Y'on only m1ea tit ·t
labor is e11t1 led to a reasonable pro_p ortion of the joint product of .I ;.bor
and. cai1ital -A.. Tbe amoun leit fbr tbe eontinuance of' the busiue ·s
wonld no1 be interfered with.. u ·n d ' r the. pre_ent JTa'Dgem·· nt cap1t ·I
get t'h . ·w h ole of the product, a.nd gi e . . labor only .a v r.y sma]l portion of it The eapi.t alist ha~. s.tiU the same origin -I capi.ta·1. to eontinu _.the bus1 ness on, a~- d b -c 1sweU.s 1t out on the 1,rofit be takes from the
l.abor- o.f .is emplor•e.
.

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B,y 'r,. PuGR:
Q _ .s, it not · uniY rsal law that tbe p · y " "bieb be laborer gets iregulatet). br fh .• ~al.ue of his work. to t .b · ,_ mpioyer --A. .·o-t at all,
sir ; the nui, ersal :l aw· is that t11e pa,y -the. labo.rer gets is ·regulated hT
1

the number of oneo1plol"ed laborers in thie commnu1ty-by theeondi ioo

of tbe labor market
Q. Would no,t that affe.et th.e v -·I ri e of t -be p rodu.c·t if there wer-e but
ti ·w· 1abore·. ,to 1>1~nce .it" . _ud - u •. bri:ug a 'h igbe-1 price to · b e .p loy .·r
1

are·t.v of th.e labor requir d to llrodnce ·t hat }larti,c! •
nlar p·ro,lnct f Tha,t w,ould, of cour, ., nece sa·r dy affect the price oftbe
artic:'lr, would it uot -~- If tbe·re· ,va:~ a . up . abundance of l abor, an

on acconut of tf1. ·

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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

213

RELA.Tl:ONS BETWEEN LABOR AND CAPl'TAL,.

OYt.~rt;toek of that kiud. of labor in tbe niarket, that would reduce the
va'lne o-f the _p roduct to the emp,l oy,e r by redneJng the price he could get
for it, a.nd ·t he pay of' the laborers would. necessari~y iu e-~ ery case ·oo
affect,e d ·b,y that; it would be regulat,e d b:)t the v.a lue of the prod:oct..
'T he prod,o ct is the result of tJie oombined effort of labor .and cap,i tal, is,
1t. uot --·.· =· Tber,e i,s no necessity for ,e ith · r a snrplns of labor ,or a sur1•1ns of' i,rodnets;,
B,r

Arr. CALL ~

Q. Ho,v wou·Jd } ou pre·\~, t t .a t - . .a;-.., . Those ar,e tbe 1. o,int' that I.
,vits h to touch 011011 i u t'.b e paper· which I prort.OSe to,present. 0f c&urse
sll cl · a .s tate of affair ·. us I ba,~e in ·m ind could no . be brought about un-·d er thee· 1 tin.~ ·. stem. nor un.der the exi.stht:!- relstions of c.apit.al and,
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B3 Mr,., ·uGH:
li. It" th ' stock. of the"\\· es.-e1·n . nion Co:mpa.n:r i ·. ptrring, v1rtuan ,., as

.~·ou a11d other witnes·. ea tnl(\ r, 28 per o-nL JU?r annum ou the actual a .1ount
1·n l"es·t,e d, or on the actual value oJ the plant, ought no· tb . pe:r son.s who
-cout1.ibute. to that r .· .·1 .It to haT·e h·. glu?-t eom1u,~n . a ti.on a the product
inet,f ,ase~ 111 amonnt a iHl iu ,-alue i· . . nder f(U(·b ,circamstan9es 011.ght.
nut fhe llRY of those '" rho J rod.U c tbe 11roduct. be ioc1-ea· d instead of
l,eing re<lneed -A. ,vA certai.n1. - t ·iuk so;, unt net·ert'b~les , w bave
t It e faet t ha . it is b · ·i 11.g v ·d nced I n~·tear1 o-f b . .in g increa_ed_
., ·
l\lr.. P ·. 1 .. 'T e ,..erJf e seuce of our ·iuqni.rJ I' ·w·b ether tb re i1S jus,.
til,P. aud •quaHt) iu Ute working of the SJ"'S.tem· now t:;X'isting between.
•<~~,tJ>ita.l and l~b-01 .
1 ••

By the .·~HA. R,l lAN:
·Q. ·J gather f rorn " hat you llY .hat ,~011 clo not ·ous·idei· tba t capital
i ~,u i.t led to any eom11 ·nsation u _t-il tbe labor which goes, into th. · thing
l)Nkl 11(~ed is fuHy and Justly ,ctunpeusat,ed.·~.'- A. Certainly· not,
Q. Yon hold tlu t- the la lO'r comes finit,. because the human machine
is, the on . the a ~t ion 0 wlrich is m.o st delicate a nti 1110 . t imtJOrtaot, and
,vl11ch .is_~ -~ , eutitled, inasmuch a , ~oul i~-knp .1.io1· to l)od~f, to be -eo:m ~
pensat,. d. firs -. Tl1erc i that point to start witb.. T'hen,, after that,
1 •

,vlle:m the Jabot r has l•t·e n '&"lirly lMllll, I s~1ppos ~·ou " ~oultl, of' course~
expect the cttpita1ist to kee·p hi~ p,lao.t, '\"hate, e1· it~ru,a y be, in ,good r,epa1r,, and haling doue fhat, so that 1,roduction coulld go on, you onld
ghte him tbe entire a1nonut of fhe net JlOO·t it berond; or wou .d yon exiiect tba . net llfofi t, o, t!r and a
th- . -.-. n, t e / sa rv l)teli miu ary e _.JJenses (th.e ,oon1 pensation of labor atJ(l the pn,se-r,-ati~u of the t•laut UI
.. -ood ord.er), to be di\:ided b t, ,e· n .labor and ,c apitaJ!:........A., --uy ar:gn*
men·, or ans -er thnt I 1ni,g ht 1nak . · to that qu.e:oUlou. woulcl be on a false
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bas.i s ·beeaui e, ta.kin,g our case into account., I ,do not. ·~ecognize the ne-

cessity--

Q. [.lnterJ>.-0 ing. l How on a false hasia f-- ·. . I do not recognize the
necessity of our t,efe .. rapihi ~·i11rd.nst1·,~, f:or in: taoee,, b iu,g .- capital stock

,co:noo:rn.

Q. But I do not s.p eak of tha.t business alone~ l s,p eak iu a broader
st;n· : . .D o you mean toot you do not reoog·n ize ·i ndividual title to eap:i~tal or property, .and t·h at they should be owned b,: t'be com.munity io.
common and administered tor the common benefit t J,s, it, a ,s,y stem of
that kind that :, oo ·w ould sub .· tJtute for the present o·n e of individual
ownership f--A.- Not exactly 180..
Q - Well,1_
g rre U. ."' your idea,, an.,I rou can elallOrate it afterwa..r da in
,y our paper.

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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A~ :\s ,Ja s _ · ~ en suggested, th : · ov ·ru m,e nt could administer an. iu~
do. try of thi .- kind, n i's tl:onP iu fh · old count1:r ; or, better· stll, to
a,oid tl1 .· t.,·its of cone] t1ctiu it. a... 11 Governmeut iust.i :otion, it could
be p'la •. etl in th ha11tls of an o:1,:;a11ization eon1po ed of tbe workio iu1,e n
in that :1uirt icn ·11r bra nc I of l lnsi.11 · -~, i·o be go,r.e1·nt uJ. and ope·r a - ti. l ,~~
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th(i difficult,~ i .iu st~1 ti1J.tl'" Btr.fore t'he ,to1king1uea cau do
il , yt1·1in,g ot· that ·1,iatl there .m ust ·b . a JHtnufa,~to1 ·' ,, an(I tl1 ·_·r e mll .st bo
tl a1iu ,. i·.uJ)i.tal t , bu~ t11 r ~lu•· 1nater"al. =.lud tor rui..-.. the pb1,11t. Non- ·
1ht~ \\'OJ"ki.u crmon ha . , 11ot got t 1t ca pi till.. If be- Juv~, he i ~ a. capiklli•~ ..

- ·\. 'Tb,~ Go, tt·innent can fn-rni ·. h tlia t to 11 hu.
Q. Bnt lunY is th~ (io,,·ern 1eu - to CfHne bv the ca.pita1l to put into,
prirate n1sinf~S ! - -\~ l , \\~oult1 not bt'i a J,n·i\·atl' busine -· . The Go,, .t--i·nu1en· \\~oultl 1,ro,~itJ . the t!apita I for f hat iu the a · e wa,y tb.~1 t it 111·0.
, ·icles,the capital ~o,,· tor tl1 - _to . t -Office D· p rtwe:nt.
Q. ~h u ,vo1.11d ·,ro 1 e . te-nd -that ·~1ste1n ·•o ;1 . ·t o u1b1ace ·;1U trade ·,
.a nd av• ·ation~ ... 't coultl b.: t:xtentletl - o ,1~ to - m:nbta ~e Hl~,t of
rllem.
Q .. ,,.. 11,, if" it .· f}fC adoptecl a · all,,· hJ should it :oot ho 1SO e.· ·te11d d,
ecau . . yot1 know tbe t le1tra pb __r, . ha,'e no moJ'le ean _ · to eomp1a ~n in
this r- s1>ee t t.b au oth · r ela .ties of "ro1. k i u gm, u 'I - . .. It c,n1.ld ,~,u y
proper). ~be . xt~uded to all bran ,IJ -s ,o f trade.
Q. Woul<1 t •t ' ,sy. tew wlu ··b ":~on l1ay~ 10 mind -· tl.ur or ·i ts etl)Ui.\ a. ut I-A., Ye~ . sir.
Q., Th • und r · ba:t s~4~u1 hon"'· :0uh) ~-- on. d11,~ tiugui~b t ·e Go etn-ment t1 om t'h ·_ -· ut.h · nu1ss of' the ouunuuifv ·t -!. Tht'l Go,·ernment ii .
it now exist N, flo yon b1I all t
Q~ ·o ; bn· a, i _ would th u exist. '\\j'ould ,·ou uo •entirely ·t1:an •
tbr the natu:r . of Gove1 1ue11 ,v h n y u 1·eqo'i , d it to tak =- oharg. of
all the _busi · ess o ~t. 1e. <!onununit.l !-A it wonld ~rtainly bring • bou·t
an entire cb.aug 1n tbe S\'",Rte1n. of go···,e rnm . u·t , and. the R,_ stem ot laws
governin,g indi,,iduals. The greu tdf ·eulty i ·. estim,a tJug th.e valoeor the
'J)ractica.bility of' a,n y 1 fo,r1n i · tbat "Te keep our --yes,on · be · ist.in ,,
,- :s atem, ·wbate\""tlr. it may ~
Q. Do,· 't ,y ou think that the, e -is•.~n.a sJ· 'tern ha ,g rown oo· of hunuio
nature a:ud the n.atur,> of our · u1·rounding , or our en,iroo·m ent, as it is
some. i.-mes ealled.! -.l. t, has ero·wn out of humau greed.
Q.. '\tVeU, does no-th.nm· n -re: l com.e 'f1-01n h.um·a.n na,t ure -A. Y ·· -,
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Q And. clou't )~Ou tliin'k it js 1u:-e-tty gene.rail)· 11revaleut am,o ng a.11
classes ..- ..\ .. C,· · ta"nl"r.
Q, Now" if" t'he @• . iRtiog·order , .f th·inr~s, ha ·. grown ont of hnm,a.n ·u atn ~
an.d. ou·t o ~ th(~ na.tn r~ of t ll ·11g , bow,, llD , ;S ·· by ome mirae1iPi., can you
e•v olve an entire·ll"' dift' rent orde-r of thiog-s tron1 the same basis _- . tl~
.
The e:baoge . 01i'hl 'I .· ,gradual., and mtb the cban.g e o · Jtl ~n1,e · d·ifte1 ent a . · te.1. · 01· .. , nature of tiling.~-. "' in _·_ich human gree,l would no occupy
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the pr,umine:nce that. it, tloo , itt J)r,e sent;. .T h . ,vbole · y· tem of proclnction a .·t b 11r,• ,t,1; 1 f. thne is base,l, no,t 1111011 the wants of the peo}ll, hHt
11poo t.be a, arie .. and b- eed of tbo .e who are engija-erl in the adminiAt1a
tion of the tndustriex. that JU"<Ml1r1t1e.. ' fhe. Jl o~·1u jti,. . · ca.p a ity ot -the
•~ountr,: ·1s nn1eh gw,~ter than i'h~ t,onstuniug ,~aparitv, .and as a co1u~,eqnt1nce the '«,orkin, ". p 01>le by th aid - f hibor-savi g miaehiuery in t I ·
hind~ of capi talt s, nw Pn:Ablrd to prodn~e this enorm,ons. qnauti't.,, of
proih c1."· h1 a very, ~ 110I' _ ti111e, a1ul a1"e tl11en 'to ·t great e ·t,e nt i·ur,el~,1 o
1

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be id'l e clurin,'!. a Jara:e part of , acu year whil · tltt ~n11tJns: p1o(loct~ are
bej 11 g coos om . · (1. W b Ile t be ea.p i a lh-t i.!r3 ft •,ei ,~i: u,.,. t b(-! h ·u ~·fi t oft hat ··u r 1)1 oM 11rodn,ctioD th labor r · remaio , in enforced '"dleueet,,,, and he has
only recei.T"ed wages, fo:r the t: riee or {our mouth : tba t _it "~as ne~~~ai-r
for him · o · ,_ ·rk in order to prod nee enong-1, "'"O la~t t l t" t~n1:p]oyei- an •
supply the ma.r ~e, tbe ·" ·hole , ,ear through. Q., I am."'t-e tlla htbo,r d.oe , no get its 'i:ust .-,~bar~ · ntl that it ougl,r ,
lta.Y · ·more; but we li ,-e iu a JJ.ract ical world, and a~ ·~uhjeet tu au exist i11 g
o,r der of tbing,s which is ·b as d upon "'Ontlition~ w~·cb " . · ·a:on:o,t. chauge·~
a.t le.a stnot radieaHy ore ·.··.· ·u ·ially.
· e eannot ,,•ba1ig · the natore oftbd
b.lWlan. a.nio1al ¥ ' ry mucb, certainly, not wit bou 't ·tJ1~ l p :.. of -er-y gt~ .. ,
periods of ime. _, ow, i the . au~ ,t,b h1g · l1i ~; ~ n caH ~n.g g -_;t sbo1~
of a radical ani<l di ·tan revolution in the natnr~ of s,, . iet, , \Yb ich wi .I
give us, ome p,racti~, I remedy,-anythin« v;I it~l : will imp,r o,~e thin,g~·
now, w niJ e you and .I are aH V"e or ,vi t.'h in sowt 1 · ti!-:Ouabl: pe1iod. t b ~:t ,
our posteri 1;y· eau look forward t ·w ithout cban!d;.ng ib : ystem of ind.i ..
vidtial, o,vne·r ship, of _p ro·p rt , ~,- . · . Yoo. i'ar tbat uu ·bange in t.:t1is ·-· ~.
istio ·=: om.ex of tilings eau be mad.e. :Now- Qt' (Interposing~ J No, l 1&aJ" t e. ,~ xi, .· titrig onl -r 1 · a~ 11 ·· . · odifi · d. or ·iru •
JJro,Ted, bot I uud.e1stancl that you J)ropose..au eutirt lr difti'- rent. ~:· .. tew 1

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hy 'Whi _•:11 'th . G,n enn111eu.t ~ha11 tak · eh~ r - of', It~ atlmini tration ot ~1ll
busin . ~s.. '\ ""~•u ti not ,. UJ to di ..•ine:tJv, bnt the .Ic gita.l ontcome of yo11'
premh-.Ps iN that the (~, ,\ ffl'lmeHt :.~h· ., l)peon e tilt aJJ .:r ' }Jeople, ttuu ~~
actn1g ·tU r~ bU _.~uul an 1u~·i\·a' · btl 1 e~s.
bat i~ ·t b 1e ult of -ora·
theory practi ·aU~v ea 1·i ti ou1. ~ ·ov.~ it seem~ to me · r~ tliffi,·ult to ,. (
far in tb=-it tlirect i,,uJ "Tit • tn1:,r t)rac_ t i, ~al be111•fit at lea · : at Jlre~n't.-_\'"'"
X or at a H, ,~ir, lJJ~ itl, a. i:s tba .,, ta lrin,g th . tel era1)h ·J·s e1n as a F-'t~t r.
in:~ I)Oint,. tl1 " Go, . ·rno1,e ,nt 1.ni~l•t- mak.e a start t, ,·. 'i ., i. ·ud f1·um that th~
plan cold (I. he t".x teude(L I f t Ii e tJo,..ern 01,e u sbonhl ;·a~y to , be t~leo..: rapber orgn:nization as it i8 a p e~ nt t~oust.itu1·,P.-d .• eml,i-a,~iug an i'h "
ta.l,e nt an,l s.kill' nP. . ~- a,,1·\"' 1:o ·ond111et a "'~ ~, _;:w1of telt--gra1,bi11g front tl,-~higbe,.t to t ht~ )01'T . f IJ·r a ucb e, nf it~ if tb e Go,~~]1JJ'Oltl'Il t Rh.on [d R:l'V
,. t .·
t.hi8 bod,~o,·\' 1nen (1h .;t' iueo1,•1H.1 tatin,; th,em. inlo .i l_l'i11littd 01ganizati,,.-•n. .,
" , e · ·Ill ad,~ant~ you ~ll 'Hh..ir.nt ca1•·i tal to enabl ~,·on to tm , a:t nn,·r.
in t.he tt~l gT11pb ·b u.sine..· ;" th.~1t is, ,a'\"\·e wiU ta.ke ~·onr b1.bur a·u i ~kilt.,
,,.h.ich. we liUO'\V xon pos~l.s ,,.aR suflici·nt ,s eco1its- t1-:s ,_u , eien.t bas1s fG,,r
,~redat.,, snul \,Te ,,~iu ~.tdvanoo )'. ou th · neeessa1:r,·· ea.pita) to <!HIT¥ on tlio
business,'· it Mee:tns to rne 'tba wouJd be entir J.r, JJirac ·ic,able. Becau~d
i · ·i s upon fbe labor of · h.e · m'(doye of capital tbat t.he ,ea.p itaHst obta.in~
his cretlit uow,, ~lnd v.;bJ sl1ool<l not the M -DJ •. ~~rstem he· extended h.,'"
the Go¥ernm,f£Ht to P.ucl an or . n.i zation (t.f ,, o 'k ingmen t
Q~ I d,o not mean to combat ·l-~ouridea of"the GoYerumenttakibg ubaro·~
of that i:ndu .try, w,:11icb,,from :it.; peculiar nature- se ~m... to be· ca1.1ab1 ·· o
be1,ng oo __ duet .d in that \\"ay. ;. bu't - ~ The _
~ TN'E . s .. [ lnterruptin.v -J WeU,, I wa goi_ng ou to sas; t.bat a Mta1.i;: .
·1ng po,1nt could oo ma£le tb re·, a.nd from1'that th .
:m. could.· ~ a ..,
t,ended to otli . ,r k1·n,ls of busines ..
Q/1! You think, then, I suppose., t , a. 1J tima,t tlJ 1.u. Go, ernment con 1. 1
do a.11 tbe farming in. the cou -· try, for- example The Govemntt bt
wo·o ltl no•t be doing any of tbe work:~ · b e ,c,rganiz ,,t ion1
d.ifter~·n
indnstri JS , .ould 'be the recogniz · J contractor for , be periormanCI of
their set'eral kinds of work.. Tb·~y would then (·a rr on tb.e differe·ut
branches of trad .· · only t ,o the extent ·th.at wa -. foun: - ueces_an■~
Qll And au the profits of ea1
r h a. ocation won'' d l1e ~1i8"tribnt I nil,
po..'-le, a1no111g tbo .~ fiU~. getl ·1 n it f-A ~ .· '. tt d·i nly ~
Q~ ' ' r-11 1 \ .r(. 11~1 in t l:1,:lt' \ j~·w ,?. u1i~l1 t 'h~r.... fl( . ·' l ll:t .. . · •t' (1 ppre&.CftO·
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u f one: aYocation by another, btkca use an the ,v·b iJe, it .i ~ tb,~ iud.i"" idual
«~on s u 1u.er wIto mak,e'S the mar'k:et (or c,Tery th iog prod llt·ed, aod .migbt not
t )b0 a \rOCation JH:'f!J upon auotbl!f under such a sy~tem, as ono com_
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J>•re-y· 111·)011. one 11uotber no·w is, e :1,lainctl. by the :motive that J>rontJ)ts,
t b c u in t bis business. That 10,of ,re wou lcl be J ,o nc a v.~a \" , itl1.
Q. Do } ou think the Go,·ernmen t ,vi:tb those t'Dlarged 110,ve:1· · woul,d
lH!!· au v I~u rer t hau it is at rrese 11t ·! --A.. D,e. ~ idcd ly som
(J. You tld.nk. that uurl -r that ,i jyst ·1n it _onlt1. be ·111oro tliffi.c ult to pur4•ha ·• an entire leg.i slatur• · t han ·1uder th- · ol,l ~l ~teni !-- A. I do uot ise,e
an,i-::~ ne ··• "':!•:;it'-:-- for .1 -·:!!isJatur ~-'.~. as 'th i,\ ~ ar at 11ros nt uoustitutet.l
Q,., \utl ,-~oll do not see au)· daub~rof colH ·~io1 bet\v@en di:tferen-t i.ntlu _,..
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~ ·- llu 1 would not MOnu} otb<~-r iudu ·trr ~J1a;,· to tl(1S t :1e,giHp]1 organi,;auon, ' t 1.•,~. ~ you 'h"rie.~1ra1)& 1iu ua1:e maktu~ $lU,4HIO OOOor $13,0UO,OOO
a ~- a r ~-hi "e ha, 't; to ,vo.r k bard 'for a hare U" i.ug; now· , e propose
tn OJ'ga.uize a.- new t ~){t.grapll -o rganization, and ·\ve ha-\-'e· ttie sa1ne rig·b t
1n ~•s '~-: thr~ tr••Y@rn1nt n.t tn ~-1: t us up iu lnu~inP~:4 that you h~\"'e~' How
,,. ,H1hl. son a\'oi,·1 sueb ~1 'tl1iJ1~· n ,s t 1·1t ! - •\~ 1111 th~ ff1r,st 1,Jat:e, thfre ·i g
no 1u·ohi -hiUt,~tha, , ~nch ~t ~ta1·e of ~,.·f la~rs ,,'.'"ould , xis. ~ and. in · hP- ne- t
J1·l1c:1,·l'!. n11d1.ir rl1e ij.\ ~.ten1 ,ea:1·rit d ont in i s eutir-. tx tlte ,$ · o,O{H]),,OUO o.,
$ l ;';,J HHl?OfHt of whicb you :s1ie,;1k \1"0 lld be of vei-,··little. 11$ · to th,o,!-; .· ,vbo
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~). Jln t it ,,.ou hl ful"1n~l1 t' hf .tn a bP t te1 su ).lport than t be other people
11-=._d.,. and ,von-11 not that b .· '"lH indnoeme1~r. to t lu)ge otllerg to 't'br1n a ne ~
t P·If\!!'l";•mJlli i c ~ s~or,.i a tion l -1\.. I ,vi n ,. n(lea \."o.r o ans n; er ·J. l tho. e q ues~
11 ~HI s .and. o l1jec t ior1 K to th best of my a,bi Jit y hereafter.
n.·ould. like to llavc the 'f'i-e ~\s of t-hc laboring meu and tbe ohJ,~rt s ther ha ,.·e iin ·,~ iew s"tat~d e,q >He.i tlr. Dn I u udt'l· ta nd t bat th e&e
or~-uionR. ot" YOllr~ nr~ ··"'t"[ eran~-- . nterta.-iti. -,1 iu th as · iatiou or 0-rgan .
ii ut ·on to ,-_ ·11 it~i 1. ,·on I,el-on~ f-A Not, generaU3-.. T .be. )leople, a,,. · a
w l1f)I · do 110 e·11t-• rtain thenl, but t b.e~" ;1re ,,.ei·y ·1al'gely entertai.ned bv
rn1ru v..~lJ.o =itre ~tudyin~ the ~e ij: ~.1eet8. Uf" cour~e,. o tar as J am eon ~
cc111 ..~cl , .I an1 ln11J a ,sttH1 . i~t of" the ...; •·i ,e nce of ·p olitieal ,v conotn)" .a1-d am
nnt IH't]nl.r •~ l · o au ·-.\\.ct· a.II tb.e-:C t]llC8tiu11~ ou~~h.and
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Dr llr" ruo11:
·Q. J:s not one of the ,oltieuts of your org.ao-iizatiou to ca1;i•y oo.t the
·vi l,,,s 00 ha\"e stated here t-A . );ut to n1y knowledge.
lt,·1•• t IP CH - 'IRMAN:
(J~ 1-la,:--o you a11~~t'hing fu1tb .. 1· t·n 111i11tl 'tliitt , -on (ll~sit-e to ··u · gest to
th,~ co1nmittee ·. -A. J do. no· ree-:dl anythiug at 1-~rresent.
,Q Are ·~on able ro tb1'"0w ·tny Ugbt n,o on tbe qne ·tion. of the average
JlflOfi t Mpon ,capital. 1~er annum in the. gene..r a I btudue~ of the eonu.t.ry 1.i\. Th.at oould be asc ,rta.i.ned f1--01n tbe.f!ensu -.,, ta:ti ·ti-c , bot it, is., matter bM.t .oultl require a ,b,"1xul deal of searebiug a.nd stud~.,.-~
The C:nA l :· ·~· .N. Well, I ha,. ·. been eon.siderd.b ly non.11,l u Med in my·
e_Ohrt , to find that out f: 01n the cen us st.a:tJ:;tics, and.if J tltt l1ave given
th , su ~'j,eet a11y co·111~f d,"ra ioH, an(l -ill keep it i ,mind:, and can g1 ,re us
.a n.y .H gbt in rc\~;-:a.rd to it, wt, gbnU >e vers· gh,d of ;yiour aid'" In asoo·r --ta·niiDg whnt ·ms a pror-er adju· tme·1lt of the mlatious between 'labor and
capita],. I t 'h iuk it i~ a uiatt, . r of great eons '-.1.Uell .· to know, in a large
:n nd genr·1.-~·1·1 ,va.y, 1\: 11a - 1u·ofit , al)ita 1 :is nu,Y- nnikiug~ lV c -peak ot
" -c apihi.1·~- c1 s e -8Jleak of "· la bo.r .,at.nl ii] •1,ly tho ,e tcr1ns o,·cr the wbole
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Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

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ought to, 'fl1How them out in their relati~u , iu s,_pecitie
iudus,tries,,also. If eap1ta'l i _· getting 50 1,er cent., evidently it ought not
to ha.,v e 18 0 much; bu-ti.fit 1s,only getting i per ce:nt., for iuat.ance, then.,
of' course, there might- be ,so-me J) _int, ·raised O'D th · other s.i.d,e of ·t he·
4\ u sit.ion..

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B,y }Ir.. GEORGE:
Q. - ou are the Sl'eretaey, of -he e ecu.t:i\"'e board of the Kuights of

L~Lbot, I betie.ve '! -A . Yes, sir!!
Q.. That :i s ai g,e oeml Ia.bor 01·ganizatiou extcndin, : f roughou-t tbe,
countr, !-A1 Yes, sir. ,
~
Q.. rSubo:n.:1.i 11 ate to thia t t b.ere ii._ 1e ~,, · · ifi(• or,ga.n a.z-a t ion ~, of })art icu·l ar
<·I Ea ~se,s of _--o kin g'm eu ,. - .A . ·y ,P. ; of a ll ela~se~ of ht bor.
,Q., Fo1' instance, t.be tele:~l'aJth _1··,, tb i.1·011 u~orkerK, tl1.e 1niuertS, and so
(nl : ·di the _e 01·,g·au1za:ti.o ns of 1,artici1,i ar cl·-1.s: •,s of labor ar-e 1nere par ·s
,.r tbt~ geueral or~·.tnizatiou of the Kui~hts of Lctbor · is tba·; so ~-A,.
Ye~, sir,.
Q Is tbe otlit'l~ \\;;hiclt vou hold ti ,1,e r111 anent, one !'- .A-~ No ; it is ao
l lt.t. tive otU~ej
Q. Js i an oftieie. 1·uu·1iug on y i;lr aft -r ,~ ar or only, 't,empor,a r, , ,_ ·...
'1'' ht ottit!(i i,s, tiUetl by ,~I, c tiou. e \"er-..:- ,,·ear~
Q But th~. otli · · is }l.Prm a-uen t t'- .A,.
•s,, s.ir ..
(J. ·1s i ·. a _ah1iiell ofli,ce f ...._A~ It neYer pa~ been,, ·b ut it vr HI u.ndonht
,t ~d l.,· l lPi a s:1la11,@d ouci!
(~., Does 'it take a·bout all yoHr t inn-..
,. -o, 1t does 110, , :f1-om tb.e
lh,~:~t that th : dut.)" 0 tht~ secretary of the t~·x~cu ti ,~e board i ._ peculiar
~tHd tHstiu11:t 1)-010 t.be duties of the c,tti~~er '"~tao is knowu a the general
sec1-etary 1,he ,g eneral s.ecretar~··. · 4 tti·· -~t!lltJ.lloJs a la-r ge · ta1f' of clerks
,;an,l nssis'tants .
Q. Tb-e y aru pa.id, I sup))ose, bccanst- il_l their tilne is eoasumed ID
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Q. .A:re you famiH" r with the "Htiou~ut:;, of the hibuv 1· -~ gen -mHy
c.ouneeted with the labor orga.uiza, ion ·!'- ....\,. l ,es1, sir,.
ij~ w ·h at is their 'feeho.g geuernlly towa!·ds capital 'f -A There, i~ 3J
,brt;ue1-a.UJ unfriendly l'ooling', urougbt' about by the co,nd'i.tion ~which h,avt,
been. ,eutbrcet1 upon thiem b,T cu1iita1. The~. ar-e beginning t-o think more
t

aud more t Iui t. thev a1:-e . n t-i.t led t·o a larg~r sham, a .f air r:;b al'le,, of t:·h e

fa·ni.t of their 0"\\ 11 :labor .
Q,., And that it is unjustly n~i thlr~ld fron1 t.hew by capitnl f-A. Un.·t 1on bted.l .t ..
Q. That, :,ou ~a:r, ~eerus to b tbf ,11enerdl opinion of labo.r in this
•·• oontry !-A . . As lar _.s I' :understand it.,
Q_ Is,tbei:-eany uofriend,line,~ · on t'be 1~art of the la borers to the existen _~e of ,ca.pita] as en pita] t
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A. , Nothing·· ~re than i~ brought about b:y the ed.uca;t ion, as I m.ay
call it, o,f the laboriu g classes; in the c,on.r~e of ,vhi,c h tbey aoo led to
St1t' tb at M()i ta.I as at Itres,p, u t organized is, absol otely 11011,o oessar:y,.
,Q.. Do th ·_- labore~ geuemlly reco,zuize the uece-Sfdtyof-e apital to pro---

Harvard University - Collection Development Department. Widener Library. HCL / 2191529.xml

dn,c ti •u ~-A~ Thc-J do.. Tlu~y 'litit,·t~ uo·t. :1u, untn~oni~nl to le.git-imat•P1
•~ a Jl ita I i t,s el f~ ·b n t ·t'bt1y b aye an . u1 ta aou irsm to i h,e· ~~.♦.~ tein w lueh gi v s
_·apital th~. po,rer it litr .nou~·,null to iii nses n1ade of it.
Q~ ThereiR no .gf'DPral de~iir•• ·, thf~u .a1lflonw 111~ laL01 ,. ,r .., of tll.e COIHllry

t ,• . ,;le~tr.oJ· ~111r nl

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...\. Ou lJ t 1rtougb co-uJt- ta! i ve f"-ffhrt un t l1tt p;i .rt of ·tben1 e1, .es tu be1,:un·e·, in ttn·n, -'.'.h at, 1nay b · ,*aU _d ~m=tU ~ UJ>ita.U· 'tR ; that is, to eng.agt,·
~.11 ~o~ope·r a·ti,"@ indn~tr,\~an,1 , lo n"~nv ,,··itl1 t 11 . neee~~itJ· of capital .as it
,c:xj. ts,at ·prese11t,.
B,y llr~ flt:Gll:
Q. ·ou want to 1n ~:s~i-,,.. · t.upit~, I aud 'to tet 1.•.a ·t of it. d, l· )70U !---A .
I'batdepe'Od,s ou what yon eon · id -·r · 1,~aJ,)ita.l -tbt n1.oue:r nf the ooun.t1~,.
v I th , ·1tr-od nci o g· power o:f th c.on·1i1 tr:, ,.,
Q,~ \Vi 11 lu bur its, eapital and 1nOJlf1 ~ i~ t•apita l.
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..~ ~ Aloue} is 1•,t. ·og·uized as ,(~apit~i I,, but it iii ou)y ,~ apita . ,, hen it oo.tnf'"s
iu coutatt \Yit h labor. '\1\-C•h~n it. c·itHne~ iH t~ontnct \\! i't,ll tl1e labor of 0 t.,l1trs.1noney .i s ca pi'tal, bu· . uot b : fo1 ~ ,..
,Ir. ,,,F~OK :E,. . CaJlital ~s usual ly d 'Hued h1 be tbat portion of flu11.,
,,.ie.iltb of a couut1·,~ '\ l"hiclb isTdt~vo· -. d to 1~rodn ·ti-ou4
Tile \VITNES ••. II.odern Jl-Oli tic t l t1c• •11ou1 .r \\To~ 11 d en l l ·it. t b . u U)'Jaid
Jil b-01' of ti.a e "-ork in g 1,roJ)l.~.
By fr~ l,Eo .:.GE.,.,
Q.. Is th .>re an.y· ~eue:ral dispos1th,- ·.1000 y t.be laboring people nf the
cunntry· to dil'itle. out 'b:Y law capi.t al as :~ O\\" ac ·uuu.1lat ;d. ~-A~ Do you
mea1n to parcel it: out am.o n~ them,· ,e 1,~e~ 'f
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Q.. Yes~-A~ No, tJul't I

kir1ow ot:
Q Th.en. there- ·i~ no feeliu g atnou g t l11eu1 -. so far .a.a yniu k nO\\", w bich
wou1d pret"ent the protection by Ja,v of 't It. 11rop rty v.?hich .any man
may 'h old now M, l1i-s own , ·- A.. I will sa y tbis,, 'that tb,e r .- is a 001.isider
a,ble uu