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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

PROCEEDINGS

OF A

CONFERENCE

WITH T H E
FEDERAL R E S E R V E

BOARD

AND C H A I R M E N

O F GOVERNORS

A N D FEDERAL

RESERVE A G E N T S
OF T H E
FEDERAL

RESERVE

BANKS

TREASURY B U I L D I N G
W A S H I N G T O N , D.C.

N O V E M B E R 5 , 6, 7, 1925

W A L T E R S , COX
SHORTHAND

REPORTER

COLUMBIAN BUILDING
WASHINGTON,

D.C.

JOINT C O N F E R E N C E

O F T H U PEDMAWAL R E S E R V E

BOARD WITH THE GOVEKNOKS AND CHATRMEN
AND FEDURAL RUSSRVE AGENTS O F FLD UNAL
RESEHVE BANKS.
Washington, D . ©., Novembor 4 , 1925.

2.30 o'clock p e me
The joint conference o f t h e Federal Reserve Board

with the Governors and Chairmon and Federal Reserve Agents
of Federal Reserve banks convened i n the Board Room,
Federal Reserve Board, Treasury Building, Washington, D . C .

at 2.30 o'clock p. m.
Fresent:

De R e Grissinger, Governor, Federal Reserve Board,
Edmund Platt, V i c e Governor, Federal Reserve Board,

Charles §. Hamlin, Member Federal Reserve Beard,
Edward H , Cunningham, M e m b e r Federal Reserve Beard,
George R . James, Member Federal Reserve Boards
Present Also:


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

W. P. G . Harding, Governor, Federal Reserve B a n k o f
Boston,
George W . Norris, Governor Federal Reserve B a n k o f

Philadelphia,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Benjamin Strong, Governor, Foderal Reserve Bank o f

New York,
EB. R e Fancher, G o v e r n o r B e d e r a l R e s e r v e B a n k o f

Cleveland,
George J . Soay, Governor Federal Reserve B a n k
Richmond,
Me B e Wellborn, G o v e r n o r F e d e r a l R e s e r v e B a n k

Atlanta,
J. B . McDougal, G o v e r n o r F e d e r a l R e s e r v e B a n k

St. Louis,
Re. A e Young, Governor Federal Reserve Bank o f
Minneapolis,
W. J e Bailey, Governor Federal Reserve Bank o f
Kansas City,
Lynn P. Talley, Governor Foderal Reserve B a n k o f
Dallas,

J. U e Calkins, Governor Federal Reserve B a n k o f
San Francisco.
Present Also:
Yrederic H e Curtiss, Chairman a n d Federal Reserve
Agent o f Boston,

Pierre Jay, Chairman and Federal Reserve Agent o f
New Y o r k ,

3

R. L. Austin, Chairman and Federal Reserve Agent o f
Philadolphia,
J. G . Novin, Chairman a n d Federal Reserve Agent o f
Cleveland,

Wm. W. Hoxton, Chairman and Federal Reserve Agent o f
Richmond,
Oscar Newton, Chairman a n d Federal Reserve Agent o f
Atlanta,
Wme A . Heath, Chairman a n d Federal Reserve Agent o f
Chicago,
Wm. MceCMartin, Chairman a n d Federal Reserve Agent o f
St. Louis,

John R. Mitchell, Chairman and Federal Reserve Agent o f
Minneapolis,
M. L e McGlure, Chairman a n d Federal Reserve Agent o f
Kansas City,

C.CO. Walsh, Chairman and Federal Reserve Agent o f
Tallas,

John Perrin, Chairman and Federal Reserve Agent o f
San Francisco.
Present Also:


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Messrs. S i d n e y Anderson a n d Donald Conn Representing
tho American Hailway Association.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Governor Crissinger:
to order.

T h e meeting will kindly come

A l o n g about Scptember 1 7 t h I received a

letter

from Mr. Donald D . Conn, representing t h e American Kailway Association i n which h e said that t h e American
Railway Association a n d individual carriers throughout
the country have been developing a

public contact w i t h

industry and agriculture through the organization o f
regional Advisory Boards;

t h e t many problems have recent-

of
ly developed whicn nocessitate:the active cooperation
the b a n k i n g i n t e r e s t s

o f t h e country,

asked b y t h e r a i l r o a d s

a n d that h e hes been

t o l a y this problem before m e i n

order that t h e Federal Keserve Board might understand
this d e v e l o p m e n t , a n d ,

i f possible, s e c u r e t h e a c t i v e

cooperation o f the different Federal Reserve banks
threughout t h e country.
I had Mr. C o n n come t o the office t o discuss this
matter,

a n d i n the discussion

i t appears t h a t Mr.

Anderson, & Zormer Member o f Congress, w h o W&S on the
Joint Agricultural Commission which made a n investigation and made a report t o Congress, was vitally interest ed i n this proposition.
In view o f the fact that Mr. C o n n desired time t o
talk a b o u t i t t o t h e B o a r d a n d t h e n t o t h e F e d e r a l R e s e r v e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

5
Banks, I thought the best place t o take i t up would b e
at this Gomtopenes) w h e n a l l would b e present w i t h the
Board, a n d y o u could hear a t first hand t h e matters which
they wanted t o present t o t h e various F e d r a l Reserve
banks a s well a s the other banks o f the country. I

think

when y o u get into this matter y o u will find i t one o f
imnaenso interest a n d y o u will also know that i t has done
and i s doing a

great service i n the matter o f distribu-

tion o f the commodities o f the country.

N o w , without

any further remarks I am going t o introduce t o you Pivsat
the Honerable Sidney Anderson, w h o will give y o u his
view o f the situation.
Mr. Anderson.

M r . Chairman a n d gentlemen, I

want

first t o express m y appreciation o f the privilege o f appearing before y o u t o discuss a

mattor which may, a t first

blush, s e e m somewhat outside o f your province a n d o f the
4nterest

o f t h e b a n k w h i c h y o u represent. I

can perhaps

best express this appreciation b y making m y remarks a s
brief a s possible.

While this matter m a y seem a t first blush somewhat
outside

o f t h e i n t e r e s t w h i c h y o u represent,

i f Mr. C o n n

and I ave a s good salesmen a s w e hope w e are, w e should
o
y that i t i s not o n l y not outside
be able t o c o n v i n c e u

6

of your interest, but that i t is well within the interest
nf the Federal Reserve banks, a n d that what w e are going t o
ask y o u t o d o i s not i n a n y way unreasonable.
Some o f y o u p e r h a p s m a y d o m e t h e h o n o r t o r e m e m b e r

that I was Chairman o f the Joint Commission o n Agricultural
Inquiry, w h i c h i n 1922 made a n inquiry into t h e then existing


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

agricultural crisis, intd’o credit, transportation a n d marketing a n d distribution.

T h e transportation report w a s perhaps

the most comprehensive o f any o f theme

I n i t w e h a d some

1600 cooperative agencies a n d some 2 4 0 committees.

T h e

Commission w a s very much impressed with t h e fact that there
appeared

t o b e a n almost complete l a c k o f confidence a n d a n

equivalently l a c k o f understanding between t h e railroads
and the shippers w h o m they were endeavoring t o serve; t h a t
there w a s c o m o l e t e l a c k o f c o o p e r a t i o n b e t w e e n t h e r e c u i r e -

ments o f the shipper for cars and car service and the ability _
of t h e r a i l r o a d s

t o f u r n i s h t h e c a r s a n d c a r service.

I t

appeared that, instead o f working together, industry,
agriculture a n d transportation, u p o n a

problem which was

vital t o all o f them, t h a t t h e y were working more o r less
at c r o s s p u r p o s e s w i t h t h e c o n s e q u e n t m i s u n d e r s t a n d i n g a n d

faiture o f the transportation performance.
The Joint C o m i s s i o n recommended t o the railroads,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

among other things, t i e creation o f regional boards, c o m posed o f r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s

o f t h e transportation companies,

of industry a n d o f agriculture a n d o f the industrial a n d
comercial interest o f the country,

t o a c t i n a n advisory

capacity i n ironing out the misunderstandings that had
theretofore existed, a n d i n bringing about some coordination betweon t h e requirements s e t u p o n the o n e hand a n d

the ability o f the railroads t o perform o n the other.
The Americen Railway Associetion undertook, through
its c a r service division, t h e organzing o f these regional
boards. T w e l v e o f them have becn organized a n d they n o w
comprise s o m e t h o u s a n d s

o f people representing e v e r y phase

of industry, agriculture a n d commerce a n d representing prob-=
ably ovor 9 0 per cent o f the tonnage involved.

T h e s e boards

are d i v i d e d u p i n t o c o m m o d i t y c o m n i t t e e s , r e p r e s e n t i n g

separate commodities a n d groups o f commodities.
mest q u a r t e r l y

T h e boards

a t points l o c a t e d c o n v e n i e n t l y w i t h i n t h e

district which they represent, a n d a t those quarterly meet~
ings t h e commodity committees report t h e condition i n the
particular industry which t h e y represent a n d its requirement
for transportation service during t h e ensuing quarter.
Thus there i s established a

basis u p o n which t h e re-

quirements f o r cars e n d for service c a n b e anticipated.

and
In other words, t h e s e reports, w h e n brought together

considered i n relation t o the roports t o the railroad,
o f the
make i t possible t o anticipate t h e c a r requirements
transportation c o m p a n i e s f o r t h e s n s u i n g period.

This feature, however,

i s i n m y opinion o f much less i m -

portance t h a n t h e c o n t a c t s b e t w e e n t h e s h i p p e r s t h e m s e l v e s

and botween t h e shippers a n d t h e railroad officials, w h i c h
grow o u t o f these meetings.
One o f the things which has resulted f r o m t h e meetings
of these boards h a s been a n ironing o u t o f the peak movements

of agricultural commodities. T h a t i s a matter which bears
a direct r e l a t i o n s h i p

t o credit requirements, b e c a u s o a s w e

are a b l e t o i r o n o u t t h e s e p e a k p e r i o d s a n d p r o v i d e f o r

an even, steady flow o f commodities just t o that oxtent w e
remove t h e n e c e s s i t y f o r l a r g e v o l u m e s

o f eredit

t o carry

as I

do, t h a t

these peak loads.
Now g e n t l e m e n I

think y o u appreciate,

there h a g been a very marked improvement i n the public genti-

ment with respect t o the Federal Reserve System, b u t I
think i t i s not unfair, a n d certainly i t i s not unkind t o
say t h e r e

i g still s o m e r o o m f o r improvement

i n that

direction.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

The thing that I want t o pdint o u t t o y o u particularly


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

is that here i s a ready made instrument a t your hand
through which y o u c a n establish t h e contact w i t h the farming industry, w i t h agricultural a n d conmerclal pursuits
which y o u have herctofore lacked.

H e r e i s a contact

through which you can obtain querterly information which
you n o w gathor statistically, b u t g e t i t directly f r o m
the representatives o f the industries e

e

j u s t

what t h e conditions i n those industries are, h o w that
can b e measured i n transportation a n d h o w i t c a n b e
measured i n terms o f requirement f o r credit.
It does not s e e m t o m e that w e are asking y o u t o
do s o m e t h i n g f o r us, b u t t h a t w e a r e a s k i n g y o u t o d o

something f o r yourselves, w h e n w e suggest t o y o u - - a n d
that i s w h a t w e a r e h e r e t o a s k - - t h a t y o u a p p o i n t a

representative o r representatives f r o m your banks t o
attend t h e quarterly meetings o f these regional Advisory

boards and t o act o n their banking committees t o assist
in this work, which i s a public work,

i n the coordination

af the various phases o f industry, including «*‘pw#bzuction,
transportation, credit a n d all t h e rest o f it.

In substance that i s all I want t o say. M r . Conn,
of course, i s naturally much more femiliar with what has
been done a n d what i t i s proposed t o d o than I am.
can speak o u t o f the book, where I

H e

a m unable to. P e r h a p s


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

in
I should s a y t h a t m y o w n i n t e r e s t a r i s e s f r o m t h e f a c t t h a t

I happen t o b e a director a n d a member o f the Executive Committee o f the Atlantic States Rogional Advisory Board. I
have h a d opportunity o f seeing t h e m work o u t contacts t h a t
were v e r y valuable, a n d I

a m quite convinced.that t h e ad-

vantages o f membership o r representation o n the part o f the
Federal Reserve Board o n these boards will b o o f a s great
advantage t o the banks themsclves a s i t c a n possibly b e t o
the Boards i n the work that t h e y a r e doing. I
Governor Crissinger.

thank you.

M r . C o n n i s the Manager o f

this Association hore i n Washiingtons I

will n o w introduce

him t o you a n d let h i m tell y o u about this proposition.
Mr. Conne

M r . Anderson h a s covored t h e general

situation w i t h reference t o the boards a n d what I will
have t o say, perhaps will b e more i n detail, b u t more
or l e s s f r o m t h e t r a n s p o r t a t i o n a n d r a i l r o a d s t a n d p o i n t .

It i s unnecessary f o r w e t o reviow w i t h y o u the
condition o f the railroads o f the United States w h e n t h e y
were turned back from Federal Control t o their owners.
The hazards o f war time during t h e world w a r made their

inroads o n every form o f industry o f the country, a n d
the railroads were n o excoption.
A s soon a s the private managoments a g a i n took con-


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Ll
trol o f t h e i r i n d i v i d u a l p r o p e r t i e s ,

t h e i r desire w a s t o

readjust their physical conditions a n d thoir relations
with t h e public i n the best manner possible i n order t o
create t h e m o s t a d c q u a t e b a s i s f o r t r a n s p o r t a t i o n s e r v i c e .
If y o u w i l l t h i n k b a c k t o 1 9 2 0 w e h a d v e r y h e a v y b u s i n e s s

during t h e first s i x months, inventories o f stocks were
built u p t o a tremendous point, a n d that situation, p l u s
the aftermath o f the war, gainedfor u s a perpendicular
drop i n commodity prices i n July o f 1921.
of the railroads suffered equally.

T h e business

T h e deflation went

through n o t only t h e last s i x months o f 1920, b u t continued
through t h e year 1921 a n d during that year t h e reilroads
of this country madetivae-tenths o f 1 per cent u p o n their
invested capital.

In 192 2 things began t o look bright for the first
three months and t o look as i f some readjustment, sone
definite program could b e developed which would start t h e
railroads r i g h t u p o n s o m e s o u n d basis, w h o n w e e n c o u n t e r e d

the mine strike o n April 1 . T h a t was s o o n followed b y the

Strike o f the shopmen o n July ist, and the accumulated
effect.

o f b o t h o f those disarrangements m a d e i t impossible

to adopt a n y definite transportation program during t h e
year 1922.


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12
The J o i n t C o m m i s s i o n

o n Agricultural I n q u i r y s u b -

mitted their recommendation t o u s a n d w e told them that w e
would a t t o m p t

t o carry c u t a l l o f those recormendations

so far a s the railroads w e r o concerned a s quickly a n d a s
soon a s i t was possible f o r u s t o s e e some light o n the
situation ahead.
of 19236

T h a t came during t h e first three months

T h e so-called railroad program, w h i c h y o u prob-~

ably a l l heard adout, w a s adopted b y the American Kailway

Association, which i s a n organization o f ali o f the railroads o f the country, a n d a n overhead operating organiza-

tion, was adopted i n April, 19235 i n New York. U n d e r this
program t h e individual railroads practically agreed w i t h
the public t h a t t h e y would d o certain things t o bring
their machine u p t o date a n d t o meet t n e public requiroment
during a

certain period.

I v e r y o n e o f those things w a s

carried o u t with t h e expenditure o f some billion a n d a
helf dollars i n capital account, a

billion eight hundrod

million f o r supplies, maintenance a n d s o on.

Among the things i n this program was the acknowlodgemont o f the recommendation o f the Joint Cowaission o f Con-

gress with regard t o setting u p throughout the United States
of t h e s e r e g i o n a l a d v i s o r y b o a r d s ,

experiment. I

a n d w e tried o u t t h e

want t o telk very informelly about this,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

135
because y o u c e n best understend i t that way.

W e tried out

the experiment first i n the Northwest, i n . Mr, Mitchellts

territory, North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota and Montana.
In October, 1922, w e called t h e different phases o f
industry together, t h e farmers, t h e banks a n d s o forth,
and w e said here, there ought t o b e some w a y that w e c a n

anticipate the transportation requiroments o f this district
in advance o f the actual needs.

W o w , gentlemen, w e all

know there i s one thing that will distuub economic conditions q u i c k e t t h a n a n y t h i n g e l s e i n t h i s c o u n t r y ,

a n d that

4s a n acute car shortage when the people cannot get the
equipment

t o m o v e t h o i r business,

a n d that condition w e

have had off and o n for about ten years i n these north~
western states, a n d s o under this regional b o a r d plan w e

said if we could get a definite picture of what the situation i s going t o b e i n the northwest i n the next three
months w e believe w e c a n meet that situation w i t h enough
equipment s o that there will n o t b e a car shortage, a n d

you will not b e subjected t o these other disarrangements.
There was n o bigger outstanding thing i n the Northwest
which the railroads felt that they could help o n than this
relationship w h i c h e x i s t e d b e t w e e n t h e d i f f e r e n t f a r m

14
organizations,

botween t h e receivor

o f the grain a n d the

producer - - w e felt that t h e regional boards w a s t h e solution o f the situation, t h a t i f w e could bring t h e people
together periodically o n the transportation a n d distribution questions t h a t they would automatically come togethor
upon t h e i r o t h e r probloms.

Therefore

w e tried out the

northwest regional board a s a n experiment f o r s i x months
before i t was adopted a s a final policy b y the American
Rallway Association,

W e asked all o f these f a r m organiza-

tions, t h e industries a n d b a n k e r s fi they felt that t h e
improvement w a s real o r imaginary,

i f they thought i t was a

good thing e n d i f they wanted i t continued o n a pormenent
basis, a n d they said that t h e y did.
experience,

B a s e d upon their

a n d entirely u p o n their experience,

t h e Board

of Directors o f the American Kailway Association, which i s
composed o f twenty-three railroad prosidents, directed

the Cer Service Division t o set these orgenizations
up
throughout t h e United Stetes.
In the first place w e had t o divide t h e
country u p

into regions where the transportation and
economic conditions were i n common.
your Governor,

I n going over this situation w i t h

i t wes singular t h a t o u r regions a r e
almost

identical w i t h those adopted b y tho Federal Reserve
System,


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15

although w e did not have them all established a t that time.
There a r e some slight changes, b u t t h e y a r e almost t h e same.
We have f

ourteen regions, a n d I believo y o u heave twelve.

We h a v e t r i e d t o p i c k regions w h e r e t h e p r o b l o n s

o f the

farmer a n d the problems o f industry a n d transportation a r e
more o r less i n common, a n d where t h e y h a d t h e same economic
problems

t o meet.

I

n each district

w e place a

district

manager o f the American Hailway Association, w i t h headquarters a t sone central point, a n d w e charge h i m with

authority over the service and car supply feature o f railroad operation i n that territory.

I t i s true that e a c h

territory ls: a n authority b y itself, they have control
over t h e i r o w n operations,

o v e r t h e i r o w n c a r supply,

but when t h e y cannot meet t h e demands o r when they cannot
harmonize their relationships w i t h their connecting lines
or their competitors t h e n t h e matter comes t o the district
manager o f the American Kailway Association a n d each
railroad i s bound b y his decisions i n carrying o u t a n y
instructions which a r e issued.

These district managers, o f which there ere now
13, and will b e 14, roport t o the Car Service Division
office i n Washington,

I n that way we decentralizedthe

overhead organization w e have i n Washington b y granting


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

15
authority o v e r t h e t r a n s p o r t a t i o n o f t h e d i f f e r e n t r a i l -

roads i n each o f these 1 4 districts t o a centralized officer i n cach district, a n d then w e followed that u p b y
building around c a c h district manager o n e o f these regional
advisory boards.

T h e object w a s first t o bring t h e public

thenselves togetier,

t o bring t h e difforont phases o f agri-

culture a n d industry togother t o promote their o w n ¢economic d e v e l o p m e n t

i n e a c h territory.

the t r a n s p o r t a t i o n n e e d s

Secondly,

o f t h e district

as a

t o anticipate

whole

i n ad-~

vance, s o that the district manager could tell u s i n Washington "

We will n o e d 1 0 por cent more couipriocnt hore i n

the next three months t h a n i n the last three months, o r

5 per cent less, o r whatever i t might ba} third, t o settle
querterly t h e larger transportation a n d distribution prob-

lems and d o everything w e could through tho railroads t o
help solve s o m e o f the agricultural a n d distribution problems o f the country.

T o d a y w e have o v e r 12,000 members

in t h e s c a d v i s o r y b o a r d s a n d t h o i c o m n i t t o e s .

E a c h board

has c o r t a i n s t a n d i n g c o m m i t t e e s , c o m m o d i t y committees.

For instance,
committee, a

i n the Southcastern territory w e have a

cotton

brick committee, a n d a lumber conmmittec.

Then e a c h o f these committees m a y have subcommittees.
oF the. committees r e p o r t f o u r t i m e s a

Each

year a t b o a r d meetings,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

ae
which a r e h e l d e v e r y t h r e e months;

t h e y roport n o t o n l y

as t o the general economic condition surrounding their i n dustry, b u t they also point o u t just about where t h e y are
heeded f o r i n t h e n e x t t h r e e m o n t h s ,

s o a s t o g i v e u s sonie

definite idea o f the distribution situation i n the district.
Purthermore,

i f these comaittees h a v e a n y particular prob-

lems o f distribution affecting transportation and service,
they have t h e right, under their by-laws a n d under thoir

rules o f proceduro, t o bring them t o the original board
and a s k the railroads! cooperation i n working t h e n out.

Now, I a m not going t o burden you with the detail o f
the board organization, because t h a t i s a thing that will
come t o you late> on. I

do want t o s a y soncthing, however,

about t h e accomplishments . T h e r e have been cight boards
organized f o r t w o years..

S i n c e last year four additional

were organized, twelve i n all fully orsanizec.

S o m e of

them a r e not porfected i n the w a y they. should 06, O u t i t i s
& process o f evolution which i s going o n and they ere getting
better every day.

T h e y are voluntary.

attached t o membership.

T h e r e a r e n o dues

T h e shipper o r banker,

he m a y b o p a y s h i s o w n cxpensées t o t h e mecting,

o r who ever
and in

order t o contribute o u r proportion o f what w e believe
t o be
én economic development o f the territory a s
a whole, t h e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

18

railroads g i v e a

one W a y fare f o r t h e r o u n d trip,

individual members o f the board.

t o the

I t i s entirely volun-

tary, a n d i n that lies i t s strengthe

I n other words w h e n

t o help y o u d o
a man feels that h e has a moral obligation
time a n d money
something,than h e i s more willing t o put his
i s worth while.
into i t i f h e thinks t h a t t h e organization
There a v e n o dues;

i t i s simply a question o f paying e x -

contributes
pouses t o the meetings, a n d the comaittees
i n t h e interim.

reports

obtained.
There h a v e b e e n s o m e v e r y d a f i n i t e r e s u l t s

up in
The first i s this: T r a n s p o r t a t i o n hasbeen speeded
todey
the last three years until i t i s 4 0 per cent fester
than it: wes i n 20225

T h a t i s d u e t o three things, f i r s t

improvement i n the physical capecity o f the railroads,
initiasocond l o y a l t y o f t h e e m p l o y e e s a n d t h e i n d i v i d u a l
tive o f t h e e m p l o y e e s

o f t h e railroads,

p n d tAird c e s p e r a

tion o n the part o f shippers i n estimating their needs i n
advance.

T h e improvement

i n the service

deal t o the banks, h a s meant a

h a s meant e

great

great deal t o the country.

We c a n figure t h e improvement i n a great m a n y ways.

s s

figured the other day that w e had saved {80,000,000 i n
interest i n th: last t w o years o n goods i n transit. S o m e b o d y
clse figured : 4 0 per cent.

W i e all know there h a s been a


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

19
great deal o f waste s a v e d a n d there h a s been a great deal
saved i n inventory o f stocks. I

just h a c a report this

morning from the middlo Atlantic States Board submitting
2 resume o f the amount o f stocks o n hand i n the retail
lumber yards i n Atlanta, a n d i t shows that t h e y are o p e r a
ting with 4 0 per cent o f their stock that t h e y h a d i n their
yords

i n 1922,

o n w h i c h y e a r t h e cornparison i s made;

that t h e y a r e doing a
NeSS.

a n d

20 per cent greater volume o f busi-

T h a t w a s b e c a u s e t h e y h a d depondable,

expeditious transportation service.

timely and

I t all means a

great

deal f o r t h e prosperity o f the country t o keep this thing
going a n d t o keep i t going right.
Perhaps t h e biggest accomplishment t h a t h a s been made
has b e e n s o m e d c f i n i t e a c c o m p l i s h m e n t

o the country.
distribution p r o b l e m f
have i n the southwest a

i n t h e agricultural

F o r instance,

regional advisory board.

we

I n 192%,

or perhaps i t was 1922 - - I think 1922 i s correct -~- they
had conjestion a t the ginning points which made i t impossible t o kecp a proper supply o f cars a t the originating
points.

I n running that situation down, t h e coiyhotity

comnittes o f the board finally determined that t h e method
by Which t h e cotton tickets were financed through t h e banks
in t h e s o u t h w e s t e r n t e r r i t o r y w a s p r i m a r i l y r e s p o n s i b l e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

20
T r e y got that matter

far t h e delay a t the ginning point.

more
straightened out, and i n 1923 and 1924 they havled
t h e y ever
cotton t o the ports a n d t o ginning points t h a n
jin circulatic
had before, a n d they h a d about 15,000 less cars
down theree
Another illustration:

e found o u t that the s h e e p

W

and l a m b s f r o m t h e c e n t r a l w e s t e r n d i s t r i c t , c o m p r i s i n g

arriving
idaho, Utah, Colorado, Vyoning a n d Nebraska, w e r e
a t the
in the markets o f Denver a n d Kansas C i t y a n d Chicago
on
rate o f 500 cars o n Monday, a n d probably fifty cars
Rebdigys--- p u t that Monday was t h e peak load.
tral west board,

i n cvoperation w i t h t h e railroads, z o n e d

that d i s t r i c t o u t there,

a n d through t h e plan which t h e y

created a n d m a d e operative, b e c a u s e

information from the railroads
tions

T h e cen-

i t was possible

t o get

a s to the railroad regula-

possible
i n distributing s h e e p a n d lambs - - i t was

last y e a r t o r e g u l a t e t h e s e s h i p m e n t s o n t o t h e m a r k e t s

so

that t h e y got practically t h e same number o f cars o n Friday
that t h e y d i d o n Monday,

a n d t h e prices i n s t e a d o f ranging

from 10-1/2 t o 16-1/2 cents, a s they did i n 1923, ranged
from 13+3/4 t o 14-1/4 last year.

W e have the testimony

,
of the President o f the Idaho Wool Growers A s s o c i a t i o n , a

member o f the Idaho Division o f the Central Western Board,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

in w h i c h h e s a y s t h a t t h a t a c c o m p l i s h m e n t a l o n e p u t

$350,000 more back into the hands o f the Idaho sheep people.
The same thing i s true with t h e cars o f grapes
moved o u t o f California t o the cast, mostly wine grapes.
We have 20,900 more cars o f grapes this year, refrigerator
cars, t h a n w e h a d last year, j u s t wince grapes alone.WVewuvlll
move before t h e first o f next month about 3000 cars o f wine

grapes eastbound from California.
body else a r e getting them.

T h e bootloggers a n d every

T h e Pacific Coast hegional

Board estimated h o w those g r a pes would move a n d how many
cars w o u l d b e requircd.

T h a t i s a n important t h i n g t o

knew, w h e n i t costs %100 t o haul a n empty refrigerator c a r

from Chicago t o San Francisco, a n d there i s no use hauling
any more than y o u actually need.

I t i s important that

we Know accurately what i s going t o happen.

n e y estimated

for the montn o f September a n d October - - a n d they mada
in August - - and w e have n o t varicd 1

per cent f r o m that

estimate i n the actual shipments o u t o f California.
shows t h a t i t i s p o s s i b l e

That

t e e s t i m a t e w h a t t h e a c t u a l demand.

of transportation will be, even a t a distance o f 3000 miles
eWay.
In 1925 the Atlantic States Board Perisha ble Conmittee tried t o work o u t a plan whereby those grapes would


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

22
be delivered t o the Jersey C i t y side, w i t h regard t o that
portion o f the grapes t h a t went t n New York, e n d they

#$5evad have t o be lightered across, unloaded and the empty
ear brought back, a n d there was a delay from three t o eight
days i n getting t h e cars over, unloaded a n d back a n d started again t o California.
perishable r e c e i v e r

T h e y went around t o see every

i n t h e C i t y o f N e w York,

a n d they sent

wires a n d letters t o them, suggesting that t h e y accept t h e
grapes o n the Jersey C i t y side a n d they themselves t a k e
over t h e obligation o f getting t h e grapes across.

That

was done, a n d that o n e move alone h a s dono t w o things.
It has given u s about t e n thousand additional refrigerator
carsthan w e would n o t otherwise h a v e h a d i n the California
grape t r a f f i c t h i s y e a r , w i t h o u t p u t t i n g a n o t h e r d i m e o f

capital i n t o cars, a n d i t has done o n e other things,
which i s t h e b i g g e s t t h i n g i t h a s d o n e - - t h e G h a i r m a n
our P e r i s h a b l e C o m m i t t e s

i n New York - - I

a m not a

of

con-

mission m a n a n d d o not k n o w whether h e i s right o r wrong,
but I have figured that h e i s just about right - - says
that i t h a s s t a b i l i z e d t h o m a r k e t
thet i t h a s m e a n t 5 0 0 ,O0GCmore

California.

s o much i n N e w York City

t o t h e grape producers

T h a t same plan, b a s e d o n the same theory,

we a r e g o i n g t o t r y t o p u t i n o p c r a t i o n

i n Pittsburgh

of


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

25
with t h e Pennsylvania Advisory Hoard, w h e n i t i s organized.
In Chicago w e alroady have « a similar p l a n worked o u t f o r
wheats

I n other words w e mean t o have t h e same crystaliza-

tion o f public opinion built u p through these organizations
in the different districts where economic a n d transporta-~
tion conditions a r e common, where w e will w o r k with t h e
railroads, t h e shippers, t h e receivers, a n d bankers i n
order t o work o u t sone o f these difficult problems.
gentlemen,

That,

i s what these regional boards a r e doing.

Just o n e more illustration, w h i c h i s probably t h e
greatest a c c o m p l i s h n e n t

o f all.

territory, t h e northwest,
time u p t o 1922.

i

w e hat. a

n liv. Tiitehelirs

car shortage a l l t h e

S i n c e that Board was orgenized,

in

1923, 1 9 2 4 a n d 1925 w e have moved t h e greatest grain crops
that t h e y heve ever h a d i n that tersitory without a

single

blocked elevator, without.a single b i t o f congestion, withOut a Bingle additional industrial facility, a n d that w e

did with 17,000 less box cars i n that territory.

o f

course o u r main desire i s t o t r y t o get a greater turnover
ef our equipment j u s t like a n y other person.
make t h e b o x c a r d o more work.

V e try. t o

T h e r e a r e only t w o ways

that you can d o it. O n e i s t o speed u p the movement o n
the railroads, speed u p the loading a n d unloading o n the


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

24
part o f the shippers, a n d i n order t o d o thet y o u have g o t
to h a v e a

erystalization

o f interest

43 what t h e regional boards get.

That

b y t h e shippers.

T h e other w a y i s t o

find o u t tle movement o f conaodities o f the country a n d
organize better distribution systems i n industry a n d
agriculture e n d t r y t o arrive a s close a s y o u c a n a t a
proper balencedcarloading.

E v e r y time y o u g e t a peak

carloading y o u get a reaction against t h e service a n d also
me

i n p r i c e t o t h e producer.

& reaction
plishment

T h e b i g g e s t acconrm!?

i n that territory h a s been t h e fact that t h e

grain committee o f the Northwest Regional Board, because
of the power o f public opinion a n d nothing else - - because
there i s n o l a w i n i t - - w a s a b l e w i t h i n t h e l a s t t h r e e
weeks

t o reduce t h e number o f cars o f grain l o a d e d a t

7800 c o u n t r y e l e v a t o r s f r o m 8 0 0 c a r s a

day t o 500 cars

a day, t h e r e b y m a k i n g i t u n n e c e s s a r y f o r e m b a r g o e s

t o be

placed against t h e movement t o tiie primary markets o f
Duluth a n d Minneapolis.

I t was S e eeiele. j u s t through

the voluntary cooperation o f the country elevators t o

reduce their shipments from 800 t o 500 cars a day, until
the i n f l u x o f g r a i n h a d b e e n t a k e n c a r e o f .

There i s just o n e other thing I want t o say.
are w o r k i n g

on @

W e

plan t o apply a l l o v e r t h e country f o r

efficient potato distribution, b y drawing a line through


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

the southern white potato a n d t h e northern white petato
territories.

T h e railroads a r e putting their money into

it because t h e y are trying i n every w a y they c a n t o help
the people along t h e railroad a n d t o help both t h e producers a n d t h e recoivers.

W e believe i t i s better t o d o

it i n this w a y a n d that t h e results will b e much better

through these advisory boards than could b e obtained
through legislation here i n Washington.
We w a n t t o a s k t h e c o o p e r a t i o n v f t h e F e d e r a l K e -

sorve System i n this whole movement.

W e need t h e bankers

te advise w i t h u s a n d with the Committees a n d t o keep
us o n a steady keol i n the different regions, a n d w e
want their interest i n the business reports which a r e
rendsred a t t h e d i f f e r e n t m o e t i n g s e

W

e have h a d pretty

fair succoss w i t h t h e bankers generally speaking, b u t
there h a s never b e e n a n y national impulse behind these
movements i n each district, a n d that i s what w e need more
than anything ¢6lse.
pated a c t i v e l y

committes.

T h e Bank o f Minneapolis h a s partici-

i n t h e w o r k o f the northwest regional

O n e o f their assistant Federal Reserve Agents

1s Chairman o f the Executive Comaittee o f the Board, a n d I
think Mr. Mitchell will bear m e out when I

say that i t

has been a fine thing f o r t h e Federal Reserve Bank, a n d a


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

26
public,
t
h
e
finer thing, perhaps, f o r t h e railroads a n d
because i t has brought t h e Federal Keserve System i n
that territory into t h e closest possiblo conperative
contact w i t h the farmer, t h e receiver a n d t h e railroads.
We want t o a s k that same cooperation b y the other Federal
Reserve Banks.

I n other words, t h e railroads; through

the American Railway Association needs t h e Federal R e serve System t o help u s build u p what w o believe i s the
commencement

o f t h e greatest possible contact f o r public

good that has ever been established i n this country.
Governor Crissinger.

T h e s e remarks have been

extremely interesting t o me, a n d I know they must have
been t o you.

I g there a n y one here w h o desires t o a s k

any q u e s t i o n s

o r who desires

t o b e heard about i t w e will

be glad t o hear from a n y one.
Mr, Mitchell. I

can support a l i t h e remarks Mr.

Conn h a s m a d e r e g a r d i n g t h e b e n e f i t t h i s o r g a n i z a t i o n

has been t o the northwest a n d t o the movement o f grain
in the northwest.

O r d i n a r i l y there has been over a number

of years a

shortage o f cars a n d a conjestion o f cars a t the

terminals.

T h a t seems t o have been entirely eliminated

last year and this year,

I t is awonderful thing i n the

development o f transportation a n d has some bearing o n
the c r e d i t a s well.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

et
Governor Seay. I
the d i s t r i c t s

i n w h i c h a t p r e s o n t h e h a s notorganizatic ?

Mr. Conn.
headquarters

would like t o ask lir. Conn

T h e southeastern rogional board,with

a t Birmingham,

That was organized quickly,

w a s o n e o f o u r f i r s t boards.

i t was very hastily threwn

together, a n d i t covers 1 1 states.

I t is altogether too

big a district, a n d we intend t o divide that into two
districts the first o f the Year.

W e will call one the

Mississippi Valley Advisory Board, a n d will take i n the
territory above t h e Alabama-Georgia line, a n d the n e w
Southeastern Board will take i n everything east o f the
Alabama-Georgia line south o f Virginia.

T h a t i s one

of the n e w boards that will have t o b e organized, a n d
the other board will b e the Allegheny Board, w i t h head~
qQuerters a t Pittsburgh,

T h o s e t w o regions h a v e n o t been

Organized, b u t w e will probably g o ahead with t h e Pittsburgh region before t h e first o f the year.
Governor Seay.

I s i t possible f o r your to: send

us & memorandum o f your organization, showing the committoes:
Mr. Conn. I
Governor Seay,

will b e very glad t o d o se,
T h a t will s h o w u s t h e territories

covered b y t h e d i f f e r e n t b o a r d s a l s o ?

Mr. Conn.

Yes, I

will b e glad t o d o thet.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

28
think w e would a l l like t o have

Mr, Curtiss, I
that Mr. Chairman.

Governor Crissingor.

Y o u will s e n d that informa-

tion t o all t h e banka, Mr. Conn?
Mr. C o n n e I

will m a k e u p a

detailed m e m o r a n d u m

of i t s o that i t willgive t h e information with reference
to each o f the boards.
G overne Seaye I

think w e all know h o w t h e de-

mands u p o n credits w a s tremendously augmented i n 1920 b y
the railroad congestion a n d b y the tying u p c f goods, a n d
I think there h a s seldom been s u c h a demonstration

o f a

community o f interest between t h e railroads, t h e shippers,
the industries’ a n d banking interests o f the country a s
this organization h a s brought t o light.
G overnor Strong.

O

f course t h e r e a r e a

good m a n y

details about t h e program a n d the effectiveness o f participation b y t h e R e s e r v e S y s t e m t h a t w e w i l l h a v e t o l e a r n

about. I

know a little about the work o f this organiza-

tion, and I think I can assure you that anything you want
us t o do i n New York t o bring about effective coopera-~
tion we will b e very glad t o do. J u s t howwe should d o it
will b e pointed o u t t o u s later, b u t w e probably c a n b e
of s o m e h e l p e

Mr. Platte P o r h a p s Mr. Mitchell will tell u s


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

29
about t h e cooperation

o f the Federal Reserve B a n k o f

Minneapolis w i t h this Northwest Board.

Mr. Mitchell.

T h e Assistant Federal Resorve Agent,

Mr. Mosher i s Chairman o f the Executive Committee o f the
local o r g a n i z a t i o n .

H e has been devoting quite a

little

time t o that work.

I t i s one w a y i n whith t h e Federal

Reserve Banks c a n assist i n the movement.
Mr. Platt.
the o r g a n i z a t i o n

I t i s a question o f cooperating with
i n the mattor o f obtaining reports

in

rolation t o tho needs o f the district a n d s o forth?

ir. Mitchell. Fxactly.
Mr. Platt.

T h e points where crops ought t o b e

moved a n d s o forth?
Mr. Mitchell. ' Yos.

O f course t h e work i s done

entiroly outside o f the Federal Reserve bank, b u t Mr,
Mosher devotes quite a

little time while h c i s i n the

bank t o w o r k i n g o u t s o m e o f t h e d e t a i l s

i n connection

with the operation o f this local committee.
Governor Crissinger.
Dr. Stewart,

I s there anything further?

d o the operation o f these advisory boards

come u n d e r y o u r o b s e r v a t i o n ?
Mr. Stewart.

est very much.

I t has come under

m y range o f inter-

W e have received reports f r o m those


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

59
poards w i t h regard t o the transportation o f commodity
movement,

a n d we are i n a

position

t o exchange informa-

tion with them along that line.
Mr. Anderson.

W h a t Mr. Conn has i n mind i n par-

ticular I think, i s that h e would like t o have each
Federal R e s e r v e b a n k a p p o i n t o n e o r m o r e r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s

to attend these meetings o f the regional advisery boards,
and t o become members a n d chairmen o f the banking committees, a n d i n that w a y obtablish a

contact between t h e

banks a n d the regional advisory boards.
Governor Strong»

M r . Anderson,

d o these advisory

boards have come u p questions o f handling bills o f lading
on shipments, a n d things o f that kind?
Mr, Andersen.

Y e s , t h e y como u p constantly.

o f

course t h e regional advisory boards d o not deal a t all
with rates.

T h e y deal primarily w i t h c a r service a n d

other p h a s e s f
o distribution related t o car service, a n d
that c o v e r s p r e t t y n e a r l y everything.
Mr. Platt.

Y o u must h a v e s o m e connection w i t h t h e

cooperative m a r k e t i n g A s s o c i a t i o n s ,

i n order t o balance

your committees?
Mr. Martin. E v e r y t i m e t h e y have a banking committeo


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

SL
somehow o r o t h e r i n d i r e c t l y

i t devolves u p e n t h a t c o m -

mitto:. t o raise monoy, a n d I would like t o ask i f these

banking coumittees have any duty o f that kind?
Mr. Anderson,
Mr. C o n n .

N

N o n e whatover.
O

T h e y simply make a

Banking comuilttee o f each board makes a

report.

T h o

report a t each

meeting o n the general financial a n d credit situation i n
the area, a n d that gives you,with t h e other committee
reports, a

c o u p r e h e n s i v e p i c t u r e o f business c o n d i t i o n s

in t h e w h o l e district.

F o r instance w e just organized

the Pacific Northwest Advisory Board, including Orogon,
Washington a n d a part o f Idaho, e n d the executive secretary o f the board i s the president a n d chairman o f the
board o f directors o f the Dexter B a n k o f Seattle, o n e o f
the biggest bankers o f the northwest.

H e came into t h e

thing o n his o w n vélition, a n d h e has given 5 0 per cent
of his time since t h e 29th o f August t o this work.

H e

said i t i s the gieatest thing that ever happened i n his
territory e

the board,

T h e Chairman

o f the banking committee

a t each meeting, s i m p l y presents a

of

picture o f

the financial situation i n the district, which, t a k e n with
the reports o f the other committees, g i v e s &

picture o f


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

352
the whole situation.

T h e railroad executives a n d enm-

ployees are represented, a n d oven the railroad brotherhoods are asking t o be allowed t o attend the meetings
in order t o acquaint themselves w i t h certain problems
of railroad management which come up.

N o w , e a c h railroad

man, e a c h shipper, a n d each other porson w h o leaves t h e
meeting h a s a definito picture i n his mind o f exactly h o w
the transportation situatio n

is going i n that district,

how the business i s going a n d s o forth, f o r t h e next
ninety days.
Now there i s just o n e other thing I want t o .calljopou:
attention t o .

W e mado a

report

i n April

o f this y e a r t o

our board o f directors, setting out the carloading b y
weeks f o r the balance o f this year.

I t i s based entirely

uponthe reports entirely o f these cormodity committees
and down t o the 15th o f October w e have b e e n one-third o f
1 p e r c e n t o f f o f t h e e s t i m a t e m a d e i n April.

I

f we can

get things down that fine, because o r this actual local
contact ,with the farming industry a n d other industries,
it ought t o b e a valuable thing f o r t h e banker a s well
as f o r t h e b u s i n e s s e x e c u t i v e a n d t h e r a i l r o a d executive.
Mr. Platt.
some v a l u e b e c a u s e

Y o u r contact w i t h t h e banks would have
o f t h o fact t h a t t h e business

i n other


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institutions n a t u r a l l y c o u l d a n t i c i p a t e t h e i r f u t u r o b u s i Vv

ness b y getting credit i n advance?
Mr. Conne Y e s , a n d another thing about t h e nevessity f o r t h e b a n k c o n t a c t - -

i t porhaps m a y a p p e a r

t o you

as theoretical more t h a n actual, b u t i t i s very actual t o
us - + a n d that i s that t h e individual manufacturer i n
any section who knows that t h e Federal Reserve b a n k a n d
his bank a r e interested i n the movement,

i s going t o d o

a little b i t more than h e did before t o make i t a success.
Mr. “oxton.

I t seems t o m e that cooperation

our p a r t w i l l b e e x c e e d i n g l y h e l p f u l

on

t o t h e Federal h e -

serve Agonts i n the matter o f their monthly business r e ~
views.

b e l i c v e i t will give u s anew outlet a n d a

chance f o r i n f o r m a t i o n a s t o conditions

i n o u r o w n diseri

tricts a n d will make o u r monthly reviews more interesting
to the veneral public.
lir. Newton, I
membership

was asked sometime a g o t o accept

o n this comaittee

I was invited t o become a
leans. I

i n tiie s o u t h o a s t e r n district.

member b y Mr. Moore o f New Or-

was v e r y appreciative o f the honor that was

conferred upon me, a n d I wrote t o Mr. Moore that I would
like t o have time t p consider t h e matter, I

had i n mind

conforring w i t h sone members o f the Hederal Keserve Board

with regard t o it. I

imagine that i t would take u p


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up s o m e t i m e i f a

man w a s g o i n g t o b e o f a n y service.

I do not know h o w much time i t would take, b u t I

am

glad t o hear t h e matter discussed here a n d I would like
very muci) t o serve om. t h e Committee i f the Federal
Reserve Board felt I , a s their reprosentative i n the
Atlantacdistrict, c o u l d b e o f service, a n d i f they felt
that i t w o u l d n o t t a k e u p t o o m u c h o f m y t i m e f r o m t h e

duties assigned t o me.
Governor Crissinger.

H a v e v o u a n y idea about t h e

amount o f time involved, Mr. Conn?
Mr, C o n n s O f c o u r s e e v e r y m e m b e r i s s u p p o s e d t o

go - - although h e does n o t have t o - - t o each Board meeting, toere a r e four board mectings a
as now suggested. {

year i n the set-up

have already explained that that

section o f t h e c o u n t r y w i l l b e d i v i d e d u p i n t o t w o boards.

In the southcast a s i t i s now constituted t h e y hold their
meetings i n December, March, J u n e a n d September,

central point,usually a t Atlanta. I
of the meetings h e l d a t Atlanta. A

a t somo

have attended three
man i s supposed t o

attend t h e m e e t i n g s a n d t h e n o f c o u r s e i s s u p p s s e d t o

give a

little o f his time i n contributing towards meking

up the report o f the Committee. I
woulde t a k e a

would s a y that i t

full d a y ' s t i m e o n c e e v e r y t h r e e months;


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not over that, and maybe half a day's time once every
think that i s the maximum o f time that

three months. I

will b e required b y eny member o f the Federal heserve
System, except t h e d a y that h e attended t h e meeting. T h a t
would b e true o f course, except i f some b i g distribution
problem s h o u l d h a p p e n t o a r i s e w h i c n w o u l d i n v o l v e t h e

credit situation v e r y much.

T h e n o f course t h e banking

committee w o u l d c o m e i n t o p l a y a n d perhaps w o u l d h a v e

special meetings with regard t o it.

B u t that does not

happen v e r y often,
Governor Crissinger.

H a v e y o u e n y data which would

show h o w much more rapidly t h e cormaodities a r e moving t o
the consumer b y reason o f your association?

Mr. Conn. Y e s , sir. I
ment.

I

will give « general state-

t i s about 4 0 p e r cent faster n o w t h a n i t was

am 1 O 2 2 « I n sone districts i t i s better t h a n thet.
I will give y o u @ little illustration.

T h e average t i m e

on lumbor from the Pacific Coast t o Chicago was about 1 8
days i n 1922,

I t i s a rare exception w h e n w e d o not

a car t o Chicago i n nine days f r o m Seattle now.
another example:

W

H e r e

e h a v e b e e n m a k i n g & ® drive t o i n -

crease t h e westbound movement o f refrigerator cars.
Yesterday morning was t h e first d a y w e g o t o n t o p o f the


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W e furnished a

refrigerator c a r situation.
car supoly yesterday morning.
September 1

100 p e r cent

I n 1924 w e shipped between

and 20th about 20,000 cars o f grapes a n d this

year w e s h i p p e d o n l y a b o u t 4 0 0 0 c a r s o f g r a p e s
same period,

i n tne

a n d that means w e have 6 0 0 0 cars less i n the

east being unloaded toigo back empty and t o meet the peak
load.

T h e n when t h e peak load d i d come from California,

instead o f being 1100 cars a

day, which was t h e peak loan

in one d a y for 1924, this year i t was 1841 f o r o n e day.
We were able t o d o that b y having t i e reserve supply o f
cars thers.

W

e were a b l e t o move t h e e m p t y cars faster

westbound f r o m Chicago a n d w e c u t down t h e time f r o m

Chicago t o Fresno, Celifornia from 1 5 days last year t o
seven a n d e half days this year.
Railroed,

f o r instance,

T h e Union Pacific

h e s made a n average e m p t y mileage

westbound o f 3 2 5 m i l e s p e r c a r o n r e f r i g e r a t o r c a r s - -

a thing unheard o f beforo.
Governor S e a y . I

suppose t h e railrosed r e p r e s e n t a -

tives worked up the details of these reports.
Mir. Conn.

Y e s , t h e y work u p tle details o f their

own report,which t h e y have t o report on, s u c h a s outlining
the b a d order c a r situation a n d things o f thet kind. T h e n
the r a i l r o a d s h a v e s p e c i a l c o m m i t t e e s

t o meet w i t h t h e

commodity committees between board meetings f o r t h e purpose


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of d i s c u s s i n g p r o b l e m s

tion.

o f distribution f o r transporta-

T h e y discuss those matters w i t h t h e commodity

committees.

F o r example, there i s the lumber committee

G the Atlantic States Board that makes their o w n report
lumber b u s i n e s s

a brick cormittes, a

i n t h e territory;

there is

cement comnaittes, a n d s o forth.

Then each o n e o f the boards have a n oxecutive comuittee.
The railroads have a
committees

i s composed

contact comsittee.

T h a t contact

o f operating a n d traffic executives

Of the reilrosads i n each district.

T h a t committee meets

upon t h e c a l l o f t h e e x e c u t i v e c o m m i t t e e

o f the Board

whenever a n y questions i n the territory arise which i t
is n e c e s s a r y f o r t h e e x e c u t i v e h e a d s o f t h e r a i l r o a d s
and t h e e x e c u t i v e c o m i i t t e e

B E T

o f t h e B o a r d t o settle.

G a n y o u tell u s how i t i s financed?

Obviously there i s a preat deal o f machinery.
i. G C O n n » A s I said, there e r e n o dues connect-

ed with it. H a c h man pays his own way t o and from the
meetings.

A i l t h e mechanical machinery whici. i s neces-

sary i s paid f o r b y the American kKeallway Associetion.
The practical working o u t o f that i s this:
or instance w e have here i n Washington f o u r o r


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five rooms.»

T h e District He:

e r o f the fmerican Kail-

way Association i s selected «and w e a s k h i m h o w many
men h e necds, a f t e r a

board i s o r g a n i z e d a n d t h o y s a y

they need three t o five.

W e furnish t h e investigetors

for t h e work o f investigating t h e crop situation.

F o r

instance w e will s a y ti:at tie situation w i t h regard t o
packing apples i n Rochester i s bad a n d a4 man i s sent u p
from the N e w York office t o sec wnat w e c a n d o with. re~
gard t o g e t t i n g b e t t e r p a c k i n g f o r t h e apples.

W

e supoly

the working force, a n d even with t h e fourtoen organizeations t h a t w e h a v e i n mind,

w e will havo a

organization today than w e hed i n 1920.

much less

W e had 486

people i n Washington i n 1920, e n d todey w e have 8 4 o r 85.
That means that t h e men a r e o u t i n t h e field where t h e y

belong, a n d where the problems originate.
lir. Miller.

D

o y o u r u n u p agaiiust a n y criticisni?

It i s v e r y o b v i o u s ti-at a s t h i s m o v e m e n t s u c c e e d s t h e v o l u n e

of bank credit : 3

t o b e more efficient,

i t i s going

to have greater facility o f circulation, a n d very large
bank credit i s going t o b e required, a n d the profits o f

the bank will b e reduccd accordingly.
Mr. Conne I

had a talk with the Vice President


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59
the American Bankers Association o f the State o f Utah

net long ago at Salt Lake.

H e took the same view.

W e

threshed i t out, t h e view being that anything that stabilas
4zeg8 economic conditions i s just a s good f o r t h e bank
it i s f o r t h e railroad,
In o t h e r w o r d s

t h e s h i p p e r a n d a n y b o d y else.

a n artificial s i t v a t i o n

i s j u s t a s bead

for the bank a s i t i s for t h e lumber mill, f o r t h e railroad,or f o r a n y o n e else.

N o w t h a t c a m e f r o m t h e Chair-

man o f the Banking Comuittes o f Utah, 4
central w e s t e r n b o a r d ,

a n d h e i s probably t h e largest

banker w e have i n that territory. I
action o n souwe o f t h e b a n k e r s

this:

comiittes o f the

know that t h e re~

o f the country has been

I f y o u specd u p transportation y o u d o not need

money f o r t h e same length o f time a s y o u needed i t before
and therefore y o u a r e n o t making quite « s much interest
on it.

B u t I think that idea has been pretty well

dissipated.

W e have good banking committees and very

good m e n o n those conmittecs.

F o r instance t i e Chair-

man o f the Banking Committee o f the Mid-West Board i s
Mr. Hazolwood.

l i e i s Vice President o f the Union Trust

Company o f Chicago, a n d h e has n o t missed a

meeting o f

that Board a n d has contributed a great deal more o f his
time t o i t than t h e average m e n has done t o make & success


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Or aus I

think y o u gentlemen c a n count o n ¢ne thing,

and t h a t i s t h a t t h e banker,

w h e n h e finds o u t what w e

are trying t o do is 100 per cent back o f it, the individua
panker .» W i e have a

country banker f r o m Fargo,North Dakota,
board mecting i n that pert o f the coun-

who has n o t missed a
try. I

think t h e bankers a s a whole, w h e n t h e y find o u t

what w e are doing, w h e n they find tiie economic a n d stabilizing results i n business, a r e just a s strong f o r i t a s
the next fellow.
Governor Seaye

H o w about t h e manufacturer?

f The

nbility t o receive q u i c k deliveries a n d make quick deis tnppocsed t o have « bearing o n f u t r e orders.
Mir. Conn.

W

e h a v e meade a

information h a s c o m e t o us, I

study o f t h a t a n d t h e

d o n o t k n o w h o w authoritea-

tive i t is, b u t I think i t i s correct, t h a t where t h e y
to operate o n five month inventories t h e y n o w operate

few days inventory, which i s duc largely t o the fact
they know that i f they place a n order, t h a t a
teein, which cerries a

certain number,

that s t u f f a t t h e Lb. T . &

certain

i s going t o deliver

T, S w i t c h a t t h e t i m o specified.

That i s the w a y t h e whole transportation mechinery i s work-

ing. I t has had a great effect upon the lumber, cement and


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41,

other building matorial, making i t possible f o r the rotailer t o matorially reduce h i s stock a n d d o more business.
Governor Seay.

D o y o u g e t the cooperation o f the

manufacturers?
Mr. Conn.

O h yese

T h e first reaction o f course

was against t h e s a w mill, a n d h e had t u cut down his
operations t o fit t h e d a y t o d a y demand f o r orders.

The

biggest lumbermen i n the districts are members o f the
lumber conmittees o f the boards. I

was talking t o the

Chairman o f the lumber committee o f the Pacific Northwest
Board t h e last time I

was o u t there.

H e i s the President

of a lumber company i n Spokane a n d h e told m e that they

would get a n order this morning, that i n thet order they
are now eble t o give the car number, a n d that the order
would b e shinped o u t b y r e e
Hr. Miller.

Mr. Conne

H o w ebout t h e lumber yards?

T h e lumber yards o f course sro benefitted

of course because t h e y a r e able t o d o more business w i t h
Lléss stock.

lir. Miller. I
cause I

am very much interested i n this be-

havo j u s t c o m e f r o m t h e P e c i f i c C o a s t a n d t h e y

were enthusiastic because t h e y said t h e lumber yerd was


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

42
on t h e c a r e

T h e California people a r e interested because

they are feeling i t i n their perishable com.odities, b o cause i t i s t o their best interest t o get those c o m o d i ties o u t just a s promptly a s possible. I
question s i m p l y b e c a u s e I

asked t h e

want t o b e s u r e t h a t a n y c o ~

operation w e give i s intelligent a n d that w e are not inviting some n e w troubles f o r ourselves.
Mr. Conn.
cooperation

O f course w e are not going t o have t h e

o f the lumber wholesalcr

thing a t all.

o r the broker

i n this

W e are certainly n o t going t o have t h e co-

operation o f the broker.
could happen t o him.

T h i s i s the worst thing thet

T h e r e u s e d t o b e a situation

whereby lumber moving f r o m t h e southeast, t h e southwest
and t h e f a r west into this northern country, m o v e d o n a
basis which was celled i n transit, a n d ebout 4 0 per cent
of i t was i n transit a n d unsold. A

supply o f lumber would

be brought t o Hast St. Louis f r o m Cincinnati, a n d i t would

lay there for days waiting t o be sold, tying u p railroad
equipment a n d e v e r y t h i n g e l s e ,
or t w o d o l l a r s a

Waye

W

a n d they would g e t a

thousand p r e m i u m f o r t h a t l u m b e r

dollar

i n that

e ere never guing t o have t h e cooperation o f the

broker i n this, but w e will always have the cooperation
of


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he producer, t h e manufacturer, t h e reteiler a n d consumer.
Governor Harding.

T h i s must b e o f tremendous a d -

vantage t o the Birmingham District.
Mr. Conn. I

think i t h a s been.

Governor Harding.

W i e are told that

I n the o l d days, i n the coal

ground
mining district y o u couldn't g e t coal o u t o f the
unless y o u had empty cars a t the tipple;
wouldn't d i g it.

t h e miners

Y o u had t a have t h e empties right

there t o load the coal i n a s i t was taken o u t o f the
ground . T h e n i n the cotton business souetimes t h e cotton
warehouses would b e chock full, t h e banks would b e loaded
up c a r r y i n g t h a t c o t t o n ,

a n d they would n o t have t h e cars

to move i t out.
+ GCOtms
this m o r n i n g

W e have that situation confronting u s

i n a n anticipated c a r shortage

Governor Seay.

o n tho L e &

Ne

F o r t h e benefit o f ell concerned,

ean y o u teli u s frankly where t h e criticisms c o m e from?

g
Me. Conn. . This was not a criticism, but I was goingG.s
to tell y o u about t h e L. &

Ne situation.

T h e Coal C o m -

mittoe f r o m t h e Ohio Velley Board showed u p this morning

to take u p a certain peculiar development o n the L. & N.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

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Railroad.

W e ave going t o have a

meeting w i t h the execu-

tites o f the roads i n the morning a n d study t h e situation.
We have @ coal comaittes d o w n there, e n d w e are going t o
get a chance t o fix t h e situation u p i n advance which
otherwise m i g h t h a v e r u n i n t o a

very b a d s i t u a t i o n a n d

have taken a lot o f time t o get o u t o f it.
Now y o u speak o f criticism.

W e haventt h a d a n y

9 utstanding criticisms o f this thing.

W e have h a d

criticisms f r o m the little fellowsand n o w a n d then t h e
big fellow would take t h e position that h e d i d not want
to lese t h e advantage w h i c h h e had i n transportation, b u t

all o f that i s being dissipated also. I

do not know o f a n

iastitution t o d a y o f importance i n the country that hasnit
a momber

o n o n e o f these a d v i s o r y boards somewhere.

The only criticism I know o f i s o f the railroads, w h e n some~
body s a y s i t 1 s r a i l r o a d p r o p a g a n d a

t o keep t h e m out o f

trouble a n d a l l t h a t k i n d o f thing. A

politician w i l l

go out somewhere and talk about some regional board and
say t h a t i t i s r a i l r o a d p r o p a g a n d a .

our chances o n that,

B u t w e will take

I f they want t o call i t railroad

propaganda a l l right, b u t t h e rank a n d file o f the people
in t h i s c o u n t r y a r e b a c k o f t h i s t h i n g 1 0 0 p e r cent.

Y o u


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

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know i t i s pretty difficult t o bring t h e farm organiza-

tions togethcr o n any one subject.

I t t e airiieais t o

get t h e Farm Union, t h e Farm Bureau .

Federation, a n d

the National Grange together o n a n y question o f policy,
but they are together s o far a s this proposition i s con-~
cerned a n d are serving o n the same committees.

This

thing has been going o n for three years now end what w e
reed i s a r n a t i o n a l i m p u l s o b a c k o f t h e m o v e m e n t a p p l i e d

in the proper way. L a s t week I had a talk with the
President o f the American Telegraph & Telephone Company.
I went into t h e whole thing with him, a n d h e has delegatcd
an e x e c u t i v e

o f e a c h o f t h e Bell Telephone Companies

in

each region t o serve a s a member o f the Board a t large;
just t o h a v e t h e m there,

lar committee,

t o t a k e n o p a r t o n a n y particu-

o r anything, b u t simply t o b e there a n d

to h a r m o n i z e t h e s i t u a t i o n

s o f a r a s t h e y a r e concerned.

The Steel Corporation h a s just taken similar ection.

W o

have n o t asked them t o d o i t u p t o this time because there

is a certain psychology i n having a little fellow come
in first, because i f you d o not someone will certainly
say that t h e b i g corporation will want t o r u n it.
Resolutions favoring this proposition have been


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

adopted b y the following organizations:
Association o f Nanufacturers,

T h e National

t h e American F a r m Bureau

Federation, t h e National Grange, a n d i n fact all the
way d o w n t h o l i n e e v e r y o r g a n i z a t i o n

o f a n y importance

has gone into it.
There i s just one other thing, a n d then I

a m through.

I just want t o show y o u the value o f the contact through
these committees.

I n 1922 w e d i d not have a n y district

manager a t Dellas, Texas.

I s there a n y one here f r o m

Texas?
Governor Crissinger.

Y e s , Governor Talloy a n d Mr.

Vialsh.
Mr. Conn.
we d i d not have a
boarde

W e d i d not have a district manager,and
livestock committee o f tho southwest

Y o u will remember t h e drought d o w n there i n 1922.

Everybody i n the southwest a s k the Car Service Division
to gsond stock cars t o the southwest.

T h e War Finance

Corporation c a m e over t o our office a n d said, " Y o u have
got t o d o it, o r w e are ruined", a n d s o one

W e d i d it.

We took stock cars f r o m Chicago, f r o m Cincinnati, f r o m
South St. Paul a n d from Kansis C i t y a n d sent them down into
the southwest.

B e f o r e w e d i d that w e tried t o find o u t


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

47

accurately h o w m a n y s t o c k c a r s w e r e n e e d e d ,

b y conmunica~

ting with the Oklahoma Railroad Commission, the
Railroad C o m m i s s i o n a n d t h e N e w M e x i c o H a i l r o a d C o r m i s -

slone

W e thought t h e y would a s k for more cars t h a n they

were entitled to, a n d they did, a n d what happened was that
while m o s t o f t h e c a r s s e n t i n t o t h e t e r r i t o r y w e r e l o a d e d

we hauled t h e rest o f them o u t empty.

W e had & situation

this year o n the Texas Pacific, a n d we had a meeting o f
the livestock comiittee, a n d they told u s the number o f
cars that they would need.

W e made a

survey o f the

Southern Pacific a n d the Missouri Pacific a n d gathered
enoug c a r s u p within 4 5 hours s o that w e could g e t t h o m
out t o them a n d have t h e m ready f o r this movement o n
account o f the d r y weather, a n d there wasn't a single
empty back haul o f a n y o f the cars w e sent o u t there.
In other wcrds t h e cars.we s e n t o u t there were needed.
he Committee h a d given accurate information a s t o exactly
what their problem was.

T h a t i s a good illustration o f

how easy i t i s t o handle matters o u t i n the territory a n d
the difficulty o f doing anything here.
thing here.

W e cannot d o any-

W e have g o t t o build u p a contact between

each branch o f the industries, a n d the railroads, a n d
have t h o m solve their o w n problems i n their districts

48
with w

hat general supervision w e c a n give t h e m from hore.

That i s apout t h e size o f it.
would L i k e t o a s k w h e t h e r o r n a & y o u

Mr. P e r r i n . I

have a n y c o m p u t a t i o n s w h i c h g o t o s h o w w i t h a n y a c c u r a c y t h e

curtailing o f inventories i n various important tines, that


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

would b e very pertinont i n our consideration h e r e a s t o the
decrease i n the amount o f credit roquired i n carrying those
inventories.
a m sorry I cannot give a n ansupate answer

Mr. Conn. I
to that.

W o have tried awfully h a r d t o get it, b u t v e have

been able t o g c t i n that form t h e figures o f tho iuicividdal
firms - - w e have only g o t four definite commodity reports
regarding t h e inventory situgtion a n d ono o f them i s t h e

one I mentioned, lumber.

H a c h board i n the future, that

is t h e oxecutive committes o f eacn board h a s asked cacl
commodity c o m m i t t e e

t o report roguiarly h o w t h o inventories

are ruming, whether higher or. lower.

thing w e have lacked.
information,

T h a t h a s been o n e

W e have not had accurato inventory

b u t w e bolieve n o w t h a t e v e r y t h r e e months

that i n f o r m a t i o n w i l l c o m e i n f r o m t h e s e c o m m o d i t y c o m mittees.

Governor Crissinger.

I

f there i s nothing further

AQ
to b e s a i d o n this s u b j e c t

w e will t a k e a

r e c e s s o f t e n minute:

and t h e n w e w i l l h e a r M r , D e w o y e

(Whereupon t h e Conference recessed f o r t e n minutes,
at the conclusion o f which, Hon. C . S. Dewoy, Assistant
o f t h e Treasury, o n t e r e d t h e C o n f e r e n c e r o o m , a n d

Secretary

the Conference proceeded a s follows):
Governor Crissinger. G e n t l o m e n , M r e Dewey desires
to g a y a

f e w words

t o you.

Mr, Dewey» G e n t l e m e n , about a year ago I had the
pleasure

o f speaking

t o y o u a b o u t s o m e o f t h e problems

the T r e a s u r y i n c o n n e c t i o n w i t h t h e currency.

of

A t that timo

I brought u p the subject o f the stancard silver dollar.
Somebody h a s started t h e proposition t h a t the Treasury h a s


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

invented a

new form o f hard money. I

believe i t i s t o

be a silver nickel w i t h a gold coentor. I
invented it;

don't kmow w h o

w o did not, b u t people f r o m all over t h e

country have been writing i n wanting t o know when the new
coin i s coming into circulation.

I

n addition t o that some-

one hag written i n offering t o sell the first thousand for
a thousand dollars apioce o r something like that.

me tell you that there i s nothing i n that. I

L e t

think the

Treagury h a s come t o the conclusion that there i s nothing

50
in t h e h a r d m o n e y

circulation,

a n y more

a s a n y roliof

i n this

miter

o f

I t was a tost t o seo what we could do with

rogard t o forcing o u t hard money into circulation, b u t
after having gotton a certain amount o f i t into circulation
it came back very quickly a n d w e havo about given that u p
ag a means o f relief.

I have had a few figures made u p t o show what the
circulation h a s been doing i n the past t e n years. I

just mention one o r two o f them.
and h a d a u t h o r i z e d

will

I m 1915 w e asked for

a n appropriation sufficient

84,000,000 sheets o f Cistinctive paper.

T

t o buy

o give y o u some

idea o f the increase i n the amount o f printing t h a t w e are

doing now at the Bureau o f Engraving and Printing, i n the
way o f currency,
bills

i n 1915 there were 189,000,000 o n e dollar

i n circulation.

O

n S e p t e m b e r 3 0 t h o f t h i s y eeayr

there were 420, noarly 421,000,000 dollar tills i n circulation.

W h e n w e started t o make a little concerted effort

to bring t h e circulation into a more readily handlec opera-


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

tion, w e formed a currency committee.
nine o r t e n months ago.

T h i s was done about

T h a t committee consists o f Mr.

Bddy, S e c r e t a r y o f t n e F e d e r a l R e s e r v e Board, M r ,

Broughton, Commissioner o f t h e Public Debt, a n d m y s e l f .

We have assigtants w h o compilo t h e facts received b y tho

yarious Federal reserve banks a n d branches a s t o their supplie:
of eurroncy, weekly, a n d they compilo those figures into a
report which i s submitted t o u s monthly. I

will seavo

with y o u copios o f the type o f reports t h a t w e got, i f you
care e e s e e a t them, a n d i f you will return t h e m t o mo.
They give u s the figuro o n overy denomination a n d kind o f
currency t h a t they have;

w e know just what overy bank has

in tho w a y o f news a n d fits a n d i n every denomination i n
kind;

w e k n o w w h a t r e s e r v e s t o c k s t h e y have;

w e know what

igs i n process o f manufacture a t the Bureau o f Engraving a n d
Printing;

w e know what a r e i n tho Treasury vaults, a n d with

that knowledge w e have b e e n able t o control t h e currency


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

gituation a little bit;

w e have been ablo t o build u p a

three months! supply o f currency o f every kind a n d the
denomination i n a partial s t a t o o f completion, o n e month's
supply i n partial state o f complotion a t the Bureau o f Engraving a n d a

two months!’ supply o f completed currency i n

the vaukts o f the Treasury.

W e haven't gotten very far i n

this program owing t o the fact that the demands o n us havo
continually increased.

W e put into circulation i n the last

the

twelve months forty million additional o n o dollar bills;

demand keeps growing, a n d makes i t very difficult f o r u s t o
put anything D y a S a reserve.

H o w e v e r , S i n c o 1923, w h e n

the reserve stocks i n all conditions o f one dollar bills
was o n l y & ,300,000,

w e have increased i t t o 15,600,000,

despite t h e fact that w e have h a d t o ~iace this enormous
increase i n cir culation.

W e also h a d authorized l a s t year,

and are a t the present time completing, a
uncompleted notes. I

reserve o f 50,000,000

mean sheets, w i t h four notes t o the

gheet, o f which 15,000,000 will have only t h e backs printed
and 15,000,000 will have t h e backs a n d faces printed,

This

reserve i g t o b e a revolving stock i n the Bureau o f Printing a n d Engraving, p e r m i t t i n g u s t o s l o w u p o u r process

manufacture a n d lengthening,
note about twicoe

of

w e believe, w h e life o f the

T h e n a reserve o f 25,000,000 s

which w i l l b e p r i n t e d d u r i n g t h e fiscal y e a r 1927;

heets
a n d

two months o f reserve supplies w h i c h w e hope t o keep i n


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

the v a u l t s o f t h e Treasury.

I

f w e c a n keep these reserve

stocks i t will permit t h e currency t e season, t h e i n k t o
harden a n d w e believe t h a t t h e currency will wear longer.
Having carried o u t this part o f our program,

on

20th the Secretary o f the Treasury authorized a

53
committee t o b e appointed t o consider t h e subjoct o f currency
as a whole.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

I n the past there have been a

number o f such

committees formed f o r the purpose o f considering t h e design
of currency a n d other angles o f ite T h e s e reports h a v e been

furnished, were satisfactory, b u t thoy unfortunately have
been f i l e d a w a y b e c a u s e t h e y d i d n o t c o m p l e t e l y m e e t t h e

ontire situation.

F o r instance, t h e y woulc prepare a

design f o r c e r t a i n c l a s s e s

o f currency,

new

b u t when i t was

brought t o the attention o f the Bureau a certain defect i n
the design, that is a mechanical d efoct, made i t impossible
to carry t h e m out.

S o this time w e thought w e would make a

very c o m p r e h e n s i v e s t u d y o f t h e w h o l e c u r r e n c y situation.
The S e c r o t a r y o f t h e T r e a s u r y a u t h o r i z e d a
Treasury m e m b e r s

t o servo,

committee

of

a s w e l l a s s u c h crvperts o r persons

havang oxpert knowledge o f the currency situation not connected «with t h e Treasury,
committee.

t o b e drafted t o serve o n the

A n agenda w a s prepared covering overy angle o f

the research t o be made and this agenda was divided into
oight separate headings.

S o m e twenty members were asked t o

serve o n t h e v a r i o u s committees. I

List o f t h e subcommittoes:
Item 1.

N o w Design.

will j u s t g i v e y o u a


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

54

Mechanical aspect a t the Bureau o f Engraving

and Brinting.
Item I n a u g u r a t i o n o f new designs.

Item 4 . Distinctive paper.
{tem E e o n o m i e s resulting f r o m reducing size.
Item {

C o n t r a c t clauses, legends a n d s o forth appear-

ing o n the various issues.
Item 7 . E x a m i n a t i o n

o f procedure f o r destruction

of

unfit notes.
Item 6. L e g a l aspects.
These committecs have been working since Septomber 1 5 t h
T h e Committee o n design, t h e

and progress h a s been made.
first o n e t o make a

report, h a s approved t h e idea o f reducing

the s i z e o f t h e c u r r e n c y a p p r o x i m a t e l y o n e - t h i r d .

Their

recommendation a n d their study will b e passed o n b y these
various other committoes.

I

t i s very easy t o recommend

that t h e currency b e reduced one-third i n size, b u t i t i s
another matter t o consider a l l t h e mechanical aspects a n d

determine what the actual savings will be, and what legislation,

i f any, w i l i b e necessary.

B e f o r e Wwe m a k e a n y r e p o r t

on this situation a l l o f these points will b e covered a n d

55
studied a n d t h e mattor will t h e n b e forwarded t o the Secretary
of t h e T r e a s u r y f o r h i s recommendation.

A f t e r that i t i s

our intention t o submit i t t o t h e Agents,
and t o the Board

t o the Governors

t o get their reaction a n d their criticisms

a8 our plan.
ht s a y t h a t t h e h i s t o r y o f t h e p r o p o s e d r e d u c t i o n

in size o f notes discloses t h a t this was started first about


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

fifteen years a g o b y Secretary McVeagh, first, I

believe,

just prior t o t h e termination o f his term o f office, w h e n h e
made a

recommondation t h a t t h e scheme b e carried out.
Secretary McAdoo, w h o followed him, decided that i t

would b e b e s t t o s t u d y t h e m a t t e r a

study was started;

Little further.

Such a

t h e war came o n - ~ first, confirmation

by t h e Federal Reserve Board came, t h e other studies were
taken i n t o effect,

a n d t h e n t h e w a r c a m e along,

a n d the

Bureau o f Printing & Engraving w a s i n entirely t o o much o f
an upset condition t o consider a n y changes i n t h e present
methods a n d plans.

A t the present time t h e Bureau o f

Printing & Engraving i s operating under t h e most satisfactory
conditions a n d I believe t h a t w e can n o w make changes dovwn

there looking toward the reduction i n the size o f currency
and t h a t t h e w o r k c a n b e c a r r i e d o u t e f f i c i e n t l y a n d well.

56
Now i f t h e o a r e a n y q u e s t i o n s w h i c h y o u w o u l d l i k e t o a s k


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

me I would b e glad t o try t o answer thom.
Governor Seay. I

would l i k e t o a s k i f y o u r c h a n g e

in design ombracos any changos which would further the
convenience o f handling b y bank tellers?
Mr. Dewey. I

tilght s a y t h a t w e n a v e m a d e o n e t e s t e

We h a d f i t a n d unfit dollar bills c u t down t o approximately
the sigo o f t h o proposed reduced s i z e note;

t h e y wore

passed o u t t o the counters i n our gedemption division here
and counted fifteen times;

w o counted t h e m a s whole notes,

we c o u n t e d t h e m c u t horizontally, v e r t i c a l l y a n d diagonally,

to see what the effect would b e i n handling and classifying
the different notes.

I t was found that t h e whole note

counts e a s i l y a n d h a n d l e s v e r y easily, m o r e e a s i l y t h a n t h e

presont sizo; t h a t i t does not cramp the hand s o much;
they f i t better i n t o t h e hand;

t h e hanf notes c u t horizon-

tally - - i t was thought that they might b e t o o thin and mike
too n a r r o w a

s t r i p t o recocive t i e c a n c e l l a t i o n h o l e s

them, a n d t h a t t h e y w o u l d t e a r easily.

in

A f t e r being counted

fifteen times they showed n o wear a t all from tearing, b u t
the vertically c u t cancollod note w a s n o t very satisfactory,
cut

they were hard t o handle;

t h e diagonal was hard t o handle

57
and h a r d t o stack,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

I

t was thought b y t h e money ceunters

that t h e reduced size note would b e more convenient t o
handle

i n t h e whole n o t o a n d j u s t a s convenient

i n the

half note.
Governor Seay.

W e have seen designs, Mr. Secretary,

which w e r e r i g h t s i d e u p , n o m a t t e r w h i c h w a y y o u t u r n e d

them.

H a s anything been done i n that respect?
Mr, Dewey.

T h e Committee o n design las studied the

subject o f design o f note f r o m every angle. P h o t o g r a p h y
hag advanced t o such a n extent that o u r note i s not really

proof against counterfitting from photography, ‘ a n d we
might h a v e t o institute entirely n e w features i n the note.
Our committee h a s studied t h a t ati t h e Bureau o f Standards
we have & committee o f two experts w h o are working o n the
distinctive p a p e r ;

w e are making studies

o f that, a n d I

might s a y w e have devdloped a paper o u t there that i s four
or five times t h e strength o f o u r present paper, b o t h

holding strength and bursting strength.

T h e tests show

increased strength a n d these paper oxperts a r e going t o
make studies o f water marking t h e distinctive paper, distinctive fibre a n d s o On.
Governor Harding.

M a y I

ask vwhat y o u r e x p e r i e n c e h a s

been i n keeping tho two dollar bills i n circulation?
Mr. Deweye

W e find that t h e supplies o f the bank

have been c u t down, t h a t there h a s n o t boen a n y approciable


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

demand f o r theme

I t goes back, I

think,

t o t h e public feel-

ing that there i s opportunity t o m i x them u p with o n e dollar

bills. I

do not know that there i s anything c a n be done

about it.

W e are trying t o push not only t h o u s e o f t h e

tyo dollar bills b u t t h e use o f bills d f higher denomination t o h e l p u s o u t i n t h e o n e d o l l a r b i l l situation.

Mr, Platt.

Y o u d o not think i t i s wholly a question

of superstition a n d prejudice?

Mr, Deweye I

do not think so.

W e have been looking

around f o r a real practical roason f o r failure t o use t h e

$2 bill and

o n e suggestion has c o m e from a very prac-

tical source, f r o m a man w h o does a lot o f change w o r k a n d
has a lot o f tellers.

H e said t h e average m a n carries

his bills o f larger denomination i n a pockotbook o r wallet,
the fives, t e n s a n d twenties, a n d s o o n up; t h a t h e puts
the o n e dollar bills i n his pants pocket a s t h e large change,

and that the two dollar bill i s neither a large bill nor a
small bill,

h e puts i t i n with t h e ones a n d pays i t out b y

mistake.

T h a t i s one o f the criticisms w e have had.

W e

had a n y n u m b e r o f t h e m o n t h a t theory, t h a t t h e y a r e t o o

oasily mimed u p with t h e one dollar bills.

T h a t Led t o

all sorts o f suggestions about having them o f a different
color a n d g o M e

T h i s has been takon u p with the study
A n o t h e r suggestion h a s been that t h e

already sugsestod.

two dollar bill i s not a multiple,

o d t h e noxt higher

denomination, a n d some suggestion h a s been made that a


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

two dollar a n d a half bill b o p u t o u t i n its placo.
Governor Harding. I

think that would b e worthy o f

consideration.

I f wo continue a bill of t h a t size and

Mr, Dewoy.

it i s necessary t o continue i t unless w e got legislation
to the contrary,

w e will have t o make i t s o distinctive t h a t

they d o not want t o onter into it.
Mr. Porrin.
make n o t o s

W o u l d i t not b e entirely possible t o

o f large denominations

o f t w o classes, H O U - o r L y

bearer notes b u t order wotes l i k e t h e t o n dollar gold certificates.

T h a t would relieve ombarrassment where there i s a

considerablo volume o f money although i n small volume i n
bulk.

56
Mr, D e w e y e I

think t h a t m i g h t b e w o r k e d e u t . I

think

thig committee will study that a n d all o f these other points.

All o f the difforent points are being brought up, and the


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

study i s going t o b e a s comprehensive a S w e c a n make it.
Mr, KeGlure.

M a y I

inquire w h e t h e r a n y c o n s i d e r a t i o n

has been given t o tho question o f destruction a t the Federal
Reserve B a n k s o f c a n é e l l e d c u r r e n c y ?

Mr. Deweye Y o s S e
studye

1 9a

an e f f o r t

h a t is being given very careful

matter o f fact w e aro going into everything i n

t o w o r k o u t s o m e plan.

O u r study does n o t only

pertain t o currency a s such, b u t i t pertains t o currency a n d
the h a n d l i n g o f c u r r e n c y s

W

a f e e l t e a t t h e - facilities f o r

handling t h o proposition i n 1915 o f 89,000,000 sheets o f
distinctive paper m a y n o t b e adequate f o r handling 230,000,000
I f there a r e a n y changes necessary

ghoets t e n yoars later.

which would make toward officioncy a n d oconomy w e want t o
know about i t and w e are going t o cover i t i n o u r dtudy.
Governor Fancher.
there would b e quite a

T h e feeling i s that i n Cloveland

saving i f the cancelled currency

wag a c t u a l l y d e s t r o y e d w h e n i t w a s rodcemod.

Mr, Doweye T h e r e i s a feeling that theroutieukd b e
a great saving, b u t o f courso there a r e some legal aspects

that would have t o b e covered b y legislation possibly.

Governor Seay. I

asked a question a moment ago,

but I did not apparently mako myself clear. I

have boen

a bank teller myself, a n d a great part o f the time o f a
bank toller i n sorting money received o v e r the counter
of a bank i s i n turning 1 t around. I


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

ask i f considera-

tion h a s been given t o the fact that atbiailcomidcbo m a d e
waich would b e right side u p n o matter which w a y you turned
it, a n d thereby save that operation o f turning t h e bill
around?
Mir, D e w e y e

S o m e o f those notes h a v e b e e n s o n t t o

us a s spocimens f r o m the Philadolphia bank.

W e have t h e m

with o v r collection o f spocimens a n d thoy are under consideration.

I f w e make, any changos a t all w e are going t o

try t o mako t h e m a s comprehensive a n d a s useful a s possible
aftor considering t h e thing f r o m all possible angles.
Mr. Flatt.

I f you have portraits o n the note y o u

cannot have both sides alike v o r y well.
Mr. Deowoy.

O f course t h e y could b e arranged s o

that one portrait could bo here and another ono hore (indicating).

O f course w e have a great many things t o put o n

the note, such aS numbers, symbols and things o f that kind,

6A
the s pace i s limitec a n d w e have t o b e very careful t e koep
the protoctivo features properly coverade
Mr. Platt.

M r . Secretary,

i s there a shortage o f

o r d o w e simply n o t g e t them?

fifty cent pieces,

W e havo a

Mr. Dewey.

we are Loaded d o w n with them.
largo quantitios o f thom.

redundancy o f fifty cent pieces;
T h o mint i n Philadelphia h a s

W o are trying o u r best t o push

them out b u t the banks won't take them. ‘ T h e demand i s for
quarters.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Mr, Platt. .

The banks won't p u t them out?

ir, D e w o y e

n e r e i s n o demand f o r

Mre Platt.

T h e y will always g i v e y o u bills unless

you particularly ask for small chango.
Mr, Dewoye

W o are minting just a s hard a s w e c a n o n

dimes a n d quarters a t the present time;

running over time.

t h e mints a r e

W e had t o stop minting gold for awhilo

to get out more subsidiary silver.
Governor Seay.

T h a t i s perfectly true.

T h e half

dollars accumulate o n u s a n d t h e quarters g o out a s fast
as w e c a n g e t them.
Mr, Platte I

have always b e e n under t h e impression

that there w a s a shortage, because y o u never g e t them unless

you particularly a s k f o r them,
Mr. Dowey.

W e have large quantities o n hand. I

am

planning t o ship o u t large quantities o f them t o Cuba,
T have o n e o t n e r m a t t e r

eut f o r the Board t o consider.

that I

would l i k e

t o throw

O n May end, 1925, there

was a letter addrossed t o the Governors o f the Federal Resorve Banks relative t o the contract f o r registored mail
insurance a n d a proposed change i n the ratio o f the rates.
The v a r i o u s banks, I

think, subscribed t o i t with

ception o f t h e B a n k o f S a n Francisca. I

would l i k e t o

read this letter, which is as follows:
"May 8 , 1925,
My d e a r Governor:

Since t h e present s e n t e d f o r registered mail in-=
surance h a s been i n effoct several oastern Federal Reserve
Banks h a v e protosted tnat t h e arrangement under which all

banks pay an equal flat rate of 4=7/8 cents per $1,000
ls not equitable, a n d docs n o t result i n a n equal distribution o f the s a v i n g offected under t h e n e w contract.
one c a s e i t i s c l a i m e d t h a t a

I n

Federal R e s e r v e B a n k i s a c t u a l l y

paying a larger premium under the present contract than was
paid under t h e o l d contract.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

64
In view o f these protests, t h e mattor w a s taken u p with
Marsh @ McLennan, w h o have submitted a

schodule o f rates,

which i t i s stated would bear a reasonable relation t o the
hazard o f the shipments made t o oach point, a n d which would
at t h e s a m e t i m e p r o d u c e t h e s a m e g,r o s s p r e m i u m a s t h e
4-7/8 c e n t r a t o e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

T h i s schedule

o f r a t e s i s a s follows:

65
It is understood t h a t t h e revised ratos which would b e
charged t o t h o Federal Reserve Banks might b o subject t o some

change, d u e t o a variation i n the proportionate amount o f
shipments made t o the several banks mignt b e subject t o some
change, d u e t o a variation i n the proportionate amount o f
shipments made t o the sovaral banks, b u t that L c 3 8 propose:
to use f r o m month t o month a rato f i g u r e d t o the nearest
t o t h e r a t e s s h o w n above, s u b j e c t

quarter c e n t c o r r e s p o n d i n g

a s m a y b e necessary i n t h e premiums assossec

to s u c h a d j u s t m e n t

h i s would result i n the use

for the last. month i n the year.

of rates varying from 2-3/4 cents per 31000 for Philadelphia
and Richmond t o 10=%/4 cents por $1,000 for San Francisco.
n the first instance would b o
The rates 1 : t o b e c h a r g e d i
as follows:

Boston 4¢

C
eS

Ne w

h

i
S

c
t

a

g

o

. bOULsS

York B a 1 / 4 _

liinneapolis

Philadelphia 2-3/4
Rangas o i t y
@levoland 4
Dallas

Riehmond 2-3/4
San F r a n c i s c o

Atlanta 5 - 3 / 4
This d o e s n o t m e a n t h a t t h e i n s u r a n c e

contract will

changed, t h e underwriters still receiving 4-7/8 cents p e r


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

be

$1,000, but would mean a more cquitable distribution of
the charges botween t h o various Federal Resorve Banks.
Will y o u pleaso consider t h e matter a n d advise m e
if such a plan i s agreeable t o your bank.
Very t r u l y yours,

(Sed)

C . S e Dewey,
ASsistant S e c r e t a r y o f t h e

Troasury."
That lottor w a s sont t o each o n e o f tho twelve banks.
Bleven o f the banks agreed t o the change a n d I believe S a n
Francisco d i d not wish t o come i n under a change a t t h e present time.

A

s a rosult I think t h e matter h a s been

Gropped, b u t i t was brought t o the attention o f the Governors
at their meeting.

Governor Talloy.

T h e Pallas District i n the last 25

years h a s nevor been able t o get cnough o n e dollar bills during t h e f a l l o f t h e year, a n d I

w o u l d l i k e t o a s k i f the

Committee h a s g i v e n a n y c o n s i d e r a t i o n

t o t h e furmishing o f

new ones oqual t o the amount o f mutilated ones shipped into
a district.
Mre Dewoye

h e r e was a’ currency conference h e l d here

in July and w e discussed t h e whole question relative t o t h e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

6¥
shipment o f one dollar bills a n d i t was decided that i f thoy
would a l l o c a t e

t o e a c h Federal Reserve B a n k =

f a m familiar with that.

Governor Talley.

Mr, Deweye T h a t is the last word that w e have been
told about it.
T h a t i s t h e last method y o u have been

Governor Talley.
able t o work out?
Mr. D e w e y s

Y e s s

Governor Talley.

O u r experience seems t o indicate t h a t

the »abis o f paying 4 0 per cont n o w a n d 6 0 per cent fit, h a s
resulted i n that i n tho other districts i t seems t h a t t h e
redeposit o f fit bills i s equal t o the amount paid oute
What w e have been under t h e nocessity o f doing i n Dallas i s
to a b s o l u t o l y l i m i t t h e a m o u n t o f n e w b i l l s

s o much p e r week

to oach bank a n d then raise t h e requirement o n fit bills a n d
the r e s u l t h a s b e e n a

receposit t h a t i s nearer 2 5 p e r c e n t

as against a n averago i n the other district o f 5 3 por conte
At the same time w e have imported there a large number o f
fit bills f r o m t h e other districts, a n d o f course w e are
paying t h e oxponse o n that a t the present time.

Governor Crissinger.

D u e t o cotton picking?

68
Governor T a l l e y e Y e O S e

T h e demand starts about

the middle o f August, reaches i t s peak along about t h e l s t
of O c t o b e r a n d t h e n i s i n sfmia v o l u m e u p t o C h r i s t m a s t i m e .

Then a large amount o f them are returned, a

large proportion

of those returned being mutilated bills o f course.
appeared


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

I t

t o u s that there c o u l d b e some p l a n worked o u t under

which n e w b i l l s c o u l d b e s h i p p e d o u t t o e a c h Federal R e s e r v e

bank equal t o t h e amount o f mutilated bilis shipped i n here.

Then there would not b e this differencu i n the volume o f bills:
in other words t h e banks a n d the other districts would n o t
get a n excess o f bills a n d w e would n o t g e t a n insufficient
amounte
Mr. Deweye I

do not h i r e t h a t a n y o f the banks

in any o f the districts a r e getting a n excess o f new bills
according t o the reports w e are getting.
Governcr Talley. I

a m applying i t t o the whole pro-

position o f } 1 bills, a n d n o t particularly n e w ones.
W e are trying t o work i t out just a s well

Mr, Dewoy.
we possibly can.
could print.

V

e have a limited number o f ones t h a t

W e are tiled down b y appropriation.

I t

not like Federal Reserve notes, t h a t a r e reimbursible = cannot

turn them out

a d libitum

a s w e would like to.

W uew

685
are a l l o w e d s o m a n y s h e e t s
structure,

t o cover t h e whole currency

a n d w e t r y t o distribute

i t t h e b e s t w a y w e cane

Of course there a r e conditions arising i n certain districts
that make i t seems a s i f they a r e n o t getting their fair
share, b u t I helieve t h a t gradually w e will work it.out inte
a more gratifying situation.
I t s o happens t h a t o u r additional

Governor Talley.

one dollar bills have tocoteprincipally f r o m N o w York, w h i c h
takes a

longer time i n transit.
ir. Dewoye

W e l l t h e drift unfortunately seems t o b e

to the centers i n one dollar bills. C h i c a g o g e t s a

fair

T h e f1lt bills pile
Situation
New
the
transient/in
i
g
O f course i t

drift, a n d N e w York gets a large drift.
up there v e r y rapidly.
York t h a t d o e s i t .
Governor Wellborn. L

would l i k e t o a s k i f y o u h a v e

taken into consideration t h e great d
new bills?


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

W

emand i n Florida f o r

e have a great difficulty i n supplying t h e

demand o f the banks f o r t h e hotels there.
Mr. Dewey.

O f course there i s a domand f r o m different

sections o f the country, a n d each one o f those demands seems
to b e equally important.

all.

G o 1e- dir Pic =

to satisly. then

T h e demands o f Florida and California come along during

a

69

the winter;

t h e n there i s a big demand i n t h o cities f o r

Christmas.

I

n fact there doesn't s c e m t o b e a n y time o f t h e

excess

year thnt we are not having andemand for one dollar bills.
Governor Seay.

T h e n there w a s a large demand t o

take care o f the races i n Baltimore.
Mr. D e w o y .

stant demand.

T h e r e i s never a n y l e t dowm i n that con-

W e aro trying t o build u p a sufficient re-

gerve a n d trying t o g e t enough t o make t h e m g o around.
(Wheroupon M r . D e w e y r e t i r e d f r o m t h e C o n f e r e n c e r o o m e )

Governor Crissinger. I

was wondering whether t h e

“onference w a n t e d t o t a k o a n y a c t i o n
presented

o n t h e matter t h a t was

b y Mr. A n d e r s o n a n d Mr. C o n n .

Mr. Platt.

I t seems t o me that i t is a very good

idea a n d t h a t w e o u g h t t o c o o p e r a t e w i t h t h e m a l l w e cane

Perhaps i f any action i s t o b e taken i t should b e prepared


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

for tomorrow's session o f the Conference.
Mr. Mitchell. G o v e r n o r Crissinger, I
committee o f three b e appointed t o make a

suggest that a

report o n this

matter tomorroWe
Mr. Jaye I

will second that.

(The motion having been duly seconded,
Governor Crissinger. I

w s carried.)

will appoint o n that committee

Mre Mitchell, Governor Seay a n d Governor Strong.
Mro Jaye

M r , Chairman, I

would like t o relate a

Little incident i n line w i t h what Mr, G o n n has stated here.
A concern with h e a d offices i n New York, w i t h about 2 0 0
offices s p r e a d o v e r t h e country,

w a s constantly transfer-

ring funds between those offices when they found out they
had about t e n million dollars which w a s i n the mail all t h e
h e y discovered t h a t there w a s

time a s unavailable funds.

a wire t r a n s f e r s y s t e m i n t h e F e d e r a l R e s e r v e S y s t e m a n d

they decided t o make u s e o f it.

B y transferring their

funds between t h e i r offices t h e y havo reduced that float
from t e n millions t o one million which means t h a t they have
nine m i l l i o n d o l l a r s m o r e t o u s e a l l t i e time.

gider this a very groat s

T h e y con-

orvice a n d are v e r y appreciative

of t h e facility.

Governor Strong. G o v e r n o r Grissinger, I

must esk

to b e relieved f r o m service o n the committee which y o u
appointed, a n d I

am sure that Mr. J a y will b e very glad t o

take m y place o n that committee.
Governor Orissinger.

Mr. J a y o n the Committee.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

V e r y w e l l then, I

will a p p o i n t

T h e Chair will entertain a

motion

to adjourn,until tomorrow morning.
(Whereupon

a t 5 . 2 5 o ' c l o c k peme, u p o n m o t i o n d u l y s e c o n d e d

the Joint Conference adjourned until temorrow, Thursday,
November 5 , 1925, a t ten o'clock a . Me)

Thursday, November 5 , 1925.
The Joint Gonferonee o f the Federal Reserve Board with
the Chairmen a n d Federal Reserve Agents a n d Governors o f the
Federal Resorve Banks reconvened pursuant t o the adjoumnment
of y e s t e r d a y a t t o n o ' c l o c k a e m .

i n t h e Hearing R o o m o f

the Federal Reserve Board, Treasury Building, Washington,D.C.
PRESENT:
De R e Grissingor, Govemnor, Federal Reserve Board,
Edmund Platt, V i c e Governor, Federal Reserve Board,
Charles 8 . Hamlin, M e m b e r Federal Reserve Board,
A. G . Miller, Member Federal Reserve Board,
Hdward H . Gunningham, M e m b e r Federal Reserve Board,

Georgo R. James, Member Federal Reserve Board.
PRESENT ALSO:

The Chairmen and Federal Reserve Agents and the
Governors o f the Federal Reserve Banks a s indicated i n yesterday's record.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

( o
Governor Crissinger.

to order. I

T h e m e e t i n g w i l l kindly c o m e

take pleasure i n presenting Professor Sprague,

who will say a few words t o you this morning.

72
Professor Sprague. I

will begin what I

have t o s a y

with a certain amount o f hesitation, bocauso i t relates
altogether t o the relations betwecn t h e reserve banks a n d
the particular member banks t h a t becomo borrowers, a n d
particularly habitual borrowers a t the Federal Reserve Banks.
Tho Federal Reserve Act, a S i t seems t o me, implies
the e f f i c a c y o f c e r t a i n p r i n c i p l e s a n d i n f l u e n c e s w h i c h d o

not seem t o m e t o b o applicable t c any except a limited
numbor o f momber banks.

T o e Act is, i n substance, b a s e d

upon Buropean central banking experionce, b a n k s t h a t are
operating a n d m a n y o t h e r b a n k s t h a t a r e o r g a n i z o d u n d e r

the branch bank system, practically a l l o f those banks hav~
ing a head office i n the central money market o f the country
with branches oxtending more o r less throughout their r e spective countries.

U n d e r such circumstances t h e whole

credit situation i s influenced b y the discount rate, a n d i t
ean a l s o b o l a r g o l y i n f l u e n c e d

b y t h e character o f the

paper which t h e banks, directly o r indirectly, u s c a s a
basis f o r credit a t the central banks.

A l l o f those banks

have l o a n s t o t h e i r o w n c u s t o m e r s a n d a l s o h a v e a

variety

of other assets o f a liquid sort, l i q u i d i n the sense that
they a r e s a t i s f a c t o r y a s s e t s f r o m t h e p o i n t o f v i e w o f


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

75

member banks.

N o n e o f these Zuropean banks, i n other words,

are tied u p with t h e local situation, a n d they are a l l in-

fluenced b y changes i n the different rates, which i s not
conceded t o b e the gituation w i t h the banks i n New York

Gity, which have loans t o their own local customers and a
largo amount o f assets which a r e well known a n d would b e
accoptable t o othor banks, n o t only t h e reservo banks i n
New York, b u t banks i n othor parts o f the country and, i n
a good many instances, t h e banks abroad.

Now, w o have i n addition t o such banks a large number
of banks doing a strictly local business, some o f which aro
conservatively managed, a n d some o f which are not. S o m e havo
all o f t h o i r f u n d s t i e d u p i n t h e l o c a l situation,

have a wider range o f assotse

a n d others

T h e Federal Reservo A c w made

a furthor a n d wider change o f a

very fundamental s o r t w i t h

regard t o the momber banks when i t removed t h e limitation
upon t h e aggrogate amount that a n y bank might borrow. A f t o r
the paSsago o f the Federal Reserve A c t a n y bank, u n d e r t h e
law, m i g h t b o r r o w d i r e c t l y m o r e t h a n i t s o w n c a p i t a l s t o c k .
Amy m e m b e r b a n k c a n n o w b o r r o w t h a t a m o u n t f r o m a n y sourco,
and


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

a n indefinite amount

f r o m t h e Federal

R e s e r v e Banks.

74

The only limitation boing i t s supply o f suitable oligible
paper a n d that word "satisfactory" m a y b e i n part eliminated
whero t h e reserve banks adopt a policy o f taking extra collateral, w h e n t h e eligible paper itself, t h o u g h technically
eligible,

i s not particularly satisfactory f r o m a

point o f view.

h

credit

e bulk o f those member banks a r e n o t

and never will b e influenced i n their borrowing t o a n y very
definite extent b y t h e discount rates.

A f t e r t h e y once

bocome borrowers t h e y d o not havo t h e ability,

o r d o not have

the assets, w h i c h will permit them, b y t h e process o f shift-

ing t o other banks, t o roliove thomselves from the load.
That i s whero t h e y are t i e d u p with t h e local situation.
It haS apparently b e c n t h e practice,
instances,

a t least i n some

t c regard more unfavorably t h e cases o f the local

baaks which borrow w h e n they have outside investments, t h a n


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

the cases o f the local banks which borrow w h e n their funds a r e
entirely t i e d u p i n the local situation
view o f t h e d e p o s i t o r

F r o m t h e point o f

i t i s f a r bettor t h a t a

bank s h o u l d

have outside investment a n d berrow a t the reserve banks
than i t i s t h a t t h a t b a n k s h o u l d h a v e a l l o f i t s f u n d s t i e d

up i n the local situation a n d then borrow more f r o m t n e
reserve bank i n order t o put those additional funds into

75

the local situation.

F r o m t h e point o f view o f the doposi~

tor i t i s d i s t i n c t l y u n s a t i s f a c t o r y t h a t t h i s b a n k s h o u l d

borrow i f all o f its assets a r e liquid i n character - - and
u
r
t i f the community i s a
of course that i s p a r t i c u l a r l y . e
one industry community, whether a
dustry,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

single manufacturing i n -

o r a singlo crop, c o m , wheat, cotton, o r whatever

it m a y b e .

I found that o n tho 3lst o f August o f this year there
wore 688 banks i n the Reserve System which h a d beon borrewing
steadily larger o r smaller amounts f o r more t h a n 1 2 months.
NoubtLess t h i s t o t a l o f 8 8 3 b a n k s w o u l d h a v e b e e n s o m e w h a t

larger b u t f o r t h e unfortunate f a c t that 259 national member
banks h a v o f a i l o d s i n c e 1920. I
estimate

think i t i s n o t a n o v e r -

t o assume t h a t 8 0 p e r c e n t a t loast o f those 2 r 9

banks h a d b e e n h a b i t u a l b o r r o w e r s p r i o r t o t h e i r failuro.
A v e r y c o n s i d e r a b l e n u m b o r o f t h o s o banks a r e

borrowing a s the rosult o f what happened i n 1916, 1919,

and 1920, but I find that there were 122 banks that wero
not permanontly i n the reserve banks prior t o January A e
1924, that h a v e b e e n i n t h e r e s e r v e b a n k f o r t n e l a s t 1 2
months w i t h o u t a

break;

1 4 4 banks t h a t h a v e b e o n i n t h e

reserve bank steadily since t h e boginning o f January,1923.

76
I suppose

i t i s doubtloss t h o c a s o t h a t o f t h o s e

260 banks that have c o m o into t h e roserve bank a s steady
borrowers i n the last t w o years, t h a t a good many o f them
are i n bocause o f the developments which took place prior

to 1923, which hark back i n one way o r another t o 1920 and
before.

Still I

cannot escapo t h e conclusion t h a t a con-

giderable number o f those banks must b o i n tne reserve banks
far
ag t h e r o s u l t o f operations w h i c h d i d n o t d a t e p a c k a s

as thate
Tho l a s t t w o y o a r s s e e m t o m e t o b e y o a r s

i n which if,

at any time y o u might expect m t h e r a small number o f banks
to b e getting i n t o t h e situation o f pecoming habitual borrow-

ers, I should expect that there would b o a n increasing number
in the next t w o years i f we m a y assume fairly good business
on a rising scale within t h e next t w o years,

i n the absence

of a concerted effort t o prevont t h e banks f r o m becoming
habitual borrowors through a reserve bank policy.

I f we

admit that eligibility a n d t h e discount rates a r e n o t

effective agoncies for preventing banks from becoming
over extended, t h o question presents itself a s t o whether
it i s possible,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

b y other means,

t o bring d o w n t h e number

of cases.
From t h e point o f view o f the depositor i t i s clearly
the case that i n borrowing o n the part o f his bank, t h e bank
uses t h e best assets i t has a n d puts him, t h e depositor,

in

a less s a t i s f a c t o r y p o s i t i o n w i t h r e g a r d t o t h e a d d i t i o n a l

assets o f the bank, because those rediscounts a r e n o t a s o f
high a quality a s t h o paper which t h e bank hypothecates.
From t h e point o f view o f the depositor i t appears t o ina
that i t i s highly important that a reserve bank,

i n taking

oligible paper o f a mompber bank, s h o u l d have some knowledge
of the kind o f business i n which t h e bank i s engaged,

o r is

about t o cngage, a s a result o f such borrowings.
I concoive t h a t i n the case o f those mombor banks doing
a distinctly local business t h a t t h e problom i s not very
difficult f r o m t h a t w h i c h p r e s o n t s i t s o l f

i n the ordinary

commercial b a n k w h o n loaning t o the regular business customers
of t h a t bank;

t h a t i t i s nocessary

t o analyzo t h e condition

n
a
b in order t o determine the general
of dhoh p a r t i c u l a r k


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

charactor

o f i t s business,

t h e q u a l i t y o f i t s management,

the likelihood o f its becoming overoxtended a n d t h e likelihood
of its loans, f o r various reasons, bocoming frozon.

S u c h an

78
analysis w o u l d c o v e r c e r t a i n i m p o r t a n t points.

n the first

g o o d many o f these habitual borrowers a r e banks

place a
with a

I

very s m a l l a m o u n t off deposits a s w e l l a g l o w c a p i t a l -

izations

Y o u have banks w i t h deposits

o f less t h a n

’100,000 and earning assets of less than {100,000. N o w
the earning power o f a bank o f that size i s so low that i t
eannot possibly t a k e care o f losses tnuat are likely t o occur

even i f it is fairly well managed.

F o r instance, w i t h a

capital and surplus o f $20,000 and deposits o f 326,000, b y
porrowing $24,000 from the Federal Reserve bank i n order t o
do move business, even with the {25,900 o f deposits, i t
geemg t o m e t o b e a most unsatisfactory v i e w from t h e point
of the depositors o f that bank. U n l e s s i t i s reasonably

certain that the &24 000 that i t is borrowing i s simply t o
meet a peak requiroment o f the people i n that Locality, t h a t
bank has n o t earning power enough t o take care o f the


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

losses, a n d presumably i n hypotheticating t h o $24,000 o f
its assets - - and I

do not know whethor additional collateral

was taken i n the caso ~ ~ i t has transferred t o the reserve
banks t h e best o f its loans.

I n the second place i t seems

to m e important t o ‘edmamine t h e general character o f the

managoment o f such a bank with oxtreme cares I

have studied

79

the oxaminers! reports through a pericd o f years, prior t o
the failure o f a number o f banks, a n d I find t h a t i n almost
every instance, aaside f r o m the f e w cases o f stealing, t h a t
there w a s plenty o f evidence t h a t t h e bank w a s not satisfactovily managed i n many cases; t h a t there w a s evidence i n
an
many instanees o f unduhy Liberal policy i n loans t o officers
and d i r e c t o r s a n d t o t h e i n t e r e s t s

UP e I

i n which t h e y w e r e bound

am unable t o s e e a n y sound reason f o r believing, f r o m

the point o f view o f the aepositor, t h a t i t i s proper f o r a
reserve bank t u lend t o a bank when 6 0 per cent o f its assets
are i n loans t o directors a n d officers,and other interests,
regardless o f the quality o f t h e particular paper whioh that
bank m a y present f o r rediscount a t a time when there i s not
an emergency existing.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

I f a n emergency presents itself i n

a case o f that sort I think i t i s desirable t o attempt t o
salvage t h o bank;

but I

do not believe i t i s possible t o

salvage t h e bank under s u c h circumstances b y a more Liberal
loaning policy o n oligible papor;

i t must b e coupled w i t h

a change i n the management o f a n institution o f that sort,
and I think t h e oxperience w i t h a large number o f the 259
national banks t h a t have failed will bear m e out with regard

to that point.

Now, asSuming that the bank i s large enough t o have
a fair earning powor, a n d i s safely a n d well managed, t h e
noxt question that seems t o m e t o present itself i g what i s

the extent o f the borrowing o f that particular membor bank.
Now t h o borrowings, f r o m one point o f view, y o u might s a y

that all deposits i n a bank are borrowings from the public;
but from another point o f view y o u might s a y that t h e deposits i n the bank, w h i c h represent t h e regular balances o f
people

i n t h e community, w h o t h e r t h e y a r o time, s a v i n g s

deposits o r checking balances, a r e t h o real a n d steady r o -

sourcos o f that bank as long as i t rotains the confidence
of the public.

W h e n a bank i n Minnesota sccures,

b y offer

of liberal interest, f u n d s f r o m individuals i n Wisconsin,

it is a borrowing bank. W h e r e again a bank secures public
deposits

b y o f f e r o f interest

a t a n u n d u l y highcrate,

that

bank i s borrowing j u s t a g much a s i f i t were roediscounting
for a n oquivalent amount a t tho Federal Roserve Bank, a n d
that igs oven more evident when t h e bank h a s t o plodge a
portion o f its assets a s socurity f o r that public deposit.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

As a n illustration, l e t u s take a bank, t h e report

OL
of which I examined, t h a t h a d $600,000 o f local public funds
a g a i n s t which surety bonds h a d been taken t o t h e extont o f

over $300,000, and at the same time that bank w a s i n the
Federal Reservebank before those deposits h a d been withdrawn,

a n d apparontly

i t put a l l o f those public deposits

and all o f tne proceeds o f the rediscount a t the reserve
pank into t h e local situation.
oxtended, a

N a t u r a l l y i t was over-

nd, w i t h a n y chill i n the local situation,

it

was under t h e necessity o f borrowing more a n d more f r o m t h e
reserve bank.

Now, w hile a bank i n one o f these local communities
shows increasing deposits, whether t h e y a r e public deposits
or meroly deposits arising f r o m t h o growth o f the community,
it appears t o m e that borrowing a t the reserve bank a t the

same time, unless that borrowing i s for very short pericds
of time, 1 s i n itself ovidence o f over expansion a n d evi-


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

dence o f lack o f conservatism o n the part o f such banks.
I do not know h o w f a r i t i g possible t o g o i n actually
decliningrto r e d i s c o u n t p a p e r w h i c h i s i n itself o n t i r e l y

satisfactory.

I f i t i s necessary,

i n a mechanical,

pawn-broking way, t o rediscount paper, t h a t i n itself i s
satisfactory;

i f i t i s admitted t h a t t h e rate i s ineffect-

}tty
a

ive, t h e n I

should h o l d that i t would b e dosirable t o limit

by statute t h e amount that a n y bank might borrow f r o m a rex
do not, however, believe t h a t i t i s neces-

serve bank. T

sary t o l o a n m e r e l y b e c a u s o t h e p a p o r i s good, a n d I

do

I t is

nov u n d e r s t a n a t h a t t h a t i n f a c t i s t h e practice.

apparently perfectly possible f o r a reserve b a n k t o decline
to l o a n t o a

resorve b a n k t h a t i s n o t i n a

satisfactory

position, regardless o f the quality o f the papor which t h a t
bank m a y offor,.

I

t i g n o doubt t h e c a s e t h a t a

great

many b a n k s p r e s u m e t h a t t h e y c a n s e c u r e t h e a c c o m m o d a t i o n

if the papor i s i n itself satisfactory. I

should n o t

suppose t h a t i t was desirable t o introduce a n y rigid rules
of practice regarding this matter;

b u t o n the other hand

it does s e o m t o m e that i t would b o advantageous t o press
more s t r o n g l y u p o n t h e m e m b e r b a n k s t h a n n o w S e e m s

t o be

the caso, t h a t i t i s t h o businoss o f the membor banks t o
meet t h e p e a k r e q u i r e m e n t s a n d n o t t h e b u s i n e s s

o f the re-

serve banks t o enable particular panks t o satisfy a

steadily

Larger demand f o r accommodation i n their comrunities t h a t
can b e met b y means o f the resources o f the local banks.
Now the damage which results f r o m banks going into
the reserve banks a n d becoming habitually a n d permanently


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

83
indebted, m a n i f e s t s i t s e l f m o s t strikingly.

O

f course

a caso o f t h e l a r g e n u m b e r o f banks t h a t h a v e failed,

in

they

were i n t h e r e s e r v e b a n k f o r r e l a t i v e l y m o d e r n a m c u n t s f o r

some yoars oefore t h e failuro, a n d within t h e year o r more
before failure thoir borrowings h a d largely increased t e cause d u r i n g t h a t p e r i o d o f t i m e t h e i r d e p o s i t s v e r y
monly w e r e o x p e r i e n c i n g a

s h a r p decline.

som-

T h e reserve

banks have steyed “with those banks, guemiodcbhem additional
accommodations,

a n d v e r y proporly so, f o r a

good many o f

those b a n k s t h u s a s s i s t e d h a v e p u l l e d t h e m s e l v e s o u t . T h e r e

are banks t h a t would have failed b u t f o r the liberal policy
reserve
after t h e emergency h a d arisene
tho/banks
on the part o f
On t h e o t h e r h a n d i n t h e c a s e o f t h o s o 2 5 9 b a n k s t h a t d i d

fail I question, f r o m the point o f view o f the depositor,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

generally spoaking, whether i t was not less satisfactory
than i t would have b e e n h a d t h e y been allowed t o fail
earlier.

Y o u have t o offset against t h e banks that y o u

have r e s c u e d t h e b a n k s w h o s o p o s i t i o n h a v e b e c o m e w o r s e

from the point o f view o f the d epositor, a s the result
of t h i s l i b e r a l policy.

Now t h e figures o n the liquidation o f these 2 5 9 banks
sghoy t h a t p a y m e n t s

t o depositors a r e g o i n g t o r u n between

forty a n d f o r t y - f i v e c e n t s a n d m a n y o f t h e m b e l o w t h a t
figure.

T h a t ig a

very m u c h l o w e r f i g u r e f o r p a y m e n t s

to depositors t h a n was t h o case prior t o 1914, w h e n i t

averaged slightly under S O cents.
a sonsiderabls extent d u e t o this:

T h e oxplanation i s t o
T h e defarred faiiure

possibly being due t o seoucing the accommodation a t the regerve bank i n the months just prior t o the failmre. a

haven't the figures for the 259 banks, but I have the
figures f o r all t h e banks t h a t failed between May, 1924,

and May, 1925 - ~ 120 banks - - and the figures show that
the deposits i n those banks were redused i n the twelve
months prior t o failure b y 3 0 per cent, i n the case o f demand deposits, a n d 1 0 per cent i n the case o f time deposits
of t h o s e banks,

a n d thoso banks almost invariably s h o w a

large increased borrowing a t the reserve banks during that


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

twelve months' period.

I n other..words t h e reserve banks

made i t possible f o r such depositors t o get their mouey i n
full a t the expense o f other depositors,
the e x p e n s e

i n particular a t

o f savings d e p o s i t o r s a n d t i m e depositors.

This experience seems t o m e t o suggest t w o things:

O n e

preventive measures designed t o keep t h e banks f r o m getting
into this position, w h i c h involves supervision a n d control

R5
through l o a n s

b y t h e reserve banks

i n t h e months before fail-

ure, i n the case o f the examined banks;


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

place a

a n d i n the second

question o f policy relating t o a period o f perhaps

a year prior t o t h o failrure, w h e n deposits a r e declining
and t h e banks a r e coming i n for larger amounts a t t h e reserve
banks,

i n that t h e granting o f t h e further accommodation

ghould b e c o u p l e d u p w i t h a n i n s i s t e n c e u p o n s o m e c h a n g e
Ppolicy o f t h e t h r e a t e n e d b a n k ;

o i n t h o persona n d s o m e c h a n g oS

hold t h e samo view with regard t o

nel o f its management. I
frequent r e q u i r e m e n t s

in

o f demand f o r additional m o n e y f r o m

the depositor t o take care o f impaired capital.
to m e pitiful t h a t t h e s c a t t o r e d s h a r s h o l d e r s

I t seems

of a

bank

should h a v e d e m a n d m a d e u p o n t h e m t o p u t i n m o n e y o n account

of impaired capital a n d then have t h e same o l d outfit left
in t h e b a n k t o f r i t t e r

The game principle I

i t away i n t h e course o f a

f e w months.

believe applies t o rediscounts a n d

accommodations secured a t reserve banks b y a bank that i s
obviously

in a

more o r l e s s p o t t e r i n g condition.

tion i s further involved
places

T h e situa-~

b y t h e fact that i n a good many

i t i s n o w becoming a n indication o f weakness

o n the

part o f a bank that i t i s a borrower a t the reserve bank.

Now that attitude i n the mind o f the public might from one

86

point o f view b o regarded a s a safeguard, b u t i t cannot b e
applied

b y t h e public intelligently a n d would work against

by
the u s o o f t h e r e s e r v e b a n k i n p o r f e c t l y p r o p o r w a y s

member banks i f the attitude becomes v e r y general. I

De-

Lieve i t i s n o w c e r t a i n l y n o t ‘ a n u n c o m m c n atultude.
Now I
sider. I

know t h a t y o u h a v e m a n y o t h e r m a t t e r s

think I

have u n b u r d e n e d m y s e l f

t o con-

o f all that I

had

couhd,
on m y mind i n the shortest space o f time that I
I,thank you.

Governor Crissinger. G e n t l o m e n , w e will now proceed
with t h e p r o g r a m o f t h e J o i n t Conference.
report o f
The B o a r d w i l l d e c i d e w h e t h e r o r n o t t h e

the Advisory Committec should b e brought before the Joint
Conference instead o f being submittedto t h e Board alone.
GonferIt has been suggested that i t b e brougat before this
that report
once a m d i f thore i s n o objection w o wlll hear
from G o v e r n o r S e a y e

Governor S e a y e

Y o u a r e referring

t o t h e report o f

the Advisory Vommittee, Governor Grissinger?
Governor Crissingere.
Governor Seay.
formal v e r b a l r e p o r t .


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

YoSe

T h a t Gommittee c a n make o n l y a n i n f h e Chairman o f t h e Committse w i l i

BY
give a resume o f what that Committee h a s done i f i t i s desired
The proceedings o f tho last meeting o f t h e Committees have
not y e t been received f r o m t h e stenographer w h o acted a s
Secretary t o the Committee.

I s i t desirable t h a t a verbal

resume o f matters w h i c h have been considered b y your Gommittee b e presented t o this meeting?


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Governor Crissinger.

Y o u m a y make s u c h report a s

you a r e a b l e t o make, G o v e r n o r Seay.
Governor S e a y .

I t m a y be,

i n order t o give s o m e @ x -

planation, c h i e f l y f o r t h e benefit o f the reserve agents,
of the originaof t h a t committee.
At the Conference o f Governors i n April t h e Governor
of the Federal Reserve Board, a t the opening o f the Gonference, commented u p o n

p e e

Gapisia 6 n ,

H e stated

that t h e Federal Reserve Board h a d been consulted v e r y

little indeed a s t o this proposed legislation, a n d that
the Federal Reserve Board a s a body h a d taken n o part i n
any a c t i o n t o w a r d s u c h legislation.

H

e s a i d t h a t h e himsolf

felt t h e need o f some study o f the proposed legislation, a n d
b
he suggested that a committee peforiety t h e Governors f o r
that purposes
favors

f

T h i s suggestion m e t with a

good deal o f

t w a s r e g a r d e d a s a v v e r y i m p o r t a n t matter,

but it

88
wags n o t i m m e d i a t c l y a c t e d u p o n b y t h o C o n f e r e n c e

they discussed i t for awhile a

o f Govemors;

n d thon postponed i t until

later i n their mcetings. L a t e r i n their conference the
mattor came u p again, a n d after some discussion i t was agreed
het i t would b e highly esscntial t o form such a committee.
The c o n v i c t i o n w a s pmpressed, h o w e v e r ,

t h a t this Committee

ghould n o t b e a committee o f Governors o r the executives
of the banks;
appointed

t h a t i s t o s a y i t should n o t b e a committee

b y t h e m a n d s h o u l d n o t o r i g i n a t e w i t h them.

T h e

opinion was oxprossed t h a t t h e executives o f the banks ought

not t e mix i n legislation o r i n politics, a n d i t was believed t h a t i f t h i s committee w e r e f o r m e d i t h a d b e t t e r

appointed b y the Federal Reserve Board.

be

T h e Conference a f

Gcvernors gtatecd, however, t h a t i f i t was desired t o form

this committee t h e Conferenco would suggest t o the Board
toe namos o f certain Governors a n d certain Agents t o compose t h a t committee.

L a t e r there w a s a meeting w i t h t h e

Foderal Reserve Board a n d t h e matter w a s again discussed.
The matter o f immediate consideration o f pending legislation
was discussed a n d the future activities o f this committee
were discussed,

O n e member o f t h e Board expressed t h e

opinion t h a t u l t i m a t e l y t h e m a t t e r s c o n s i d e r e d


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

b y this

89
committee m i g h t assume quite a broad scope, p u t i t was felt
that t h o m a t t e r s w h i c h r e q u i r o d i h m e d i a t e c o n s i d e r a t i o n

by

the Gommittoe were those contained i n the legislation proposed, chiefly i n the t w o McFadden bills.

T h e Comnittee

was t o b e composed o f two Governors a n d four Agents, c h e
names were proposed, a n d the Board appointed t h e committee.
Tae Committee h a d its first meoting o n June oth.
@hat was about t h e time that t h e committee o f the Federal
and
Reserve Agents h a d comploted their report upon reserves,
the report o f the Agents u p o n reserves a n d t h e t w o McFadden
bills were considered a s the immodiate subjects requiring
attention b y t h e Committee.

With respect t o the roport o f the Agents i t had not
suffibeen examined because i t had just boen completed a n d


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

cient t i m o h a d n o t e l a p s e d f o r examination.
therefore e x p r e s s e d a

general a p p r e c i a t i o n

T h e Committee
o f the w o r k o f

but
the Committee, approved what i t had done i n principle,

the members reserved the privilege o f recording their exceptions w i t h r e s p e c t

t o t h e d i f f e r e n t provisions

o f this

report. G o n s i d e r a t i o n w a s given first t o the second
MeFadden Bill rather t h a n

t o t h e First McFadden Bii1.

That bill was condemned both i n principlo and i n texte

eke)
to
It was felt that a study o f tho offect o f that pill ought
bo u n d e r t a k e n a n d P r o f e s s o r S p r a g u o a n d Dr. S t e w a r t w e r e
t o mako s o m e a

requested

that bill.

nalysis

o f the possible offects

of

h a t was done, a n d i t soemed t o indicate t h a t

the immediate effect upon particular banks,

i f i t was p u t

into effect, w o u l d b e t o very seriously impair their reserves.
In one case I

rotall i t would have reduced t h e reserves o f

a Foderal Reserve B a n k down t o 2 1 per cent during 1924,
in the then condition o f the bank.

D u r i n g t h e five months

which have elapsed i n the year 1925 i t would have h a d t h e
effect o f roducing t h e reserves o f four o f the reserve banks
from 2 0 t o 3 0 points.

W o made some analysis o f the effect

of t h e bill i n our bank, w h i c h seemed t o indicate t h a t i f
the b i l l w e r e p u t i n t o e f f e c t

i n tho then condition o f tho

Federal Reserve Banks i t would havo reduced t h e amount o f

additional credit which they might have boen able t o oxtend


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

to one«soventh o f the credit which t h e y would b e able t o

extend under oxisting law.
It soon became apparent,after certain criticismswhich
appeared w i t h respoct t o this bill, t h a t i t d i d not meet t h o
public favor, a n d w e all know that eventually i t was withdrawn
by Mr. McFadden, a n d the conviction seemed t o exist i n certain

quarters t h a t i t i s permanently withdrawn e
The Committse t h e n t o o k u p t h e first McFadden Bill
and c o n s i d e r e d t h o s e p r o p o s a l s

a non~controversial natures

i n the bill which w o r e o f

T h o y tried, f o r the t i m e being

at least, t o eliminate t h e branch banking subject, although
the C o m m i t t e e f i r s t e x p r e s s e d t h e o p i n i o n t h a t t h a t s u b j e c t

was o f such f a r reaching consequence t h a t i t ought t o b e
embolied i n a soparate bill, a n d t h e Committee s o recorded

itself.

T h o s e provisions which are intended generally t o

add t o the privileges o f national banks i n order t o make
the Mational Banking System more attractive b y giving them

equal privileges with state banks, were generally approved
Ly t h e Committce.

I

t was felt that Section 5200 o f the

bill required amendment, a n d that Section 5200 required


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

considerable study.e P r o f o s s o r Spraguo w a s
make a

study o f Section 5200,

H S

a n d s u c h amendments

O F to
t o these

amendments w h i c h h a d b e e n p r o p o s e d a n d o t h e r a m e n c m e n t s

which,

i n his opinion, a f t e r many, m a n y years o f familiarity

with a n d study o f t h e National Banking System, ssemec t o h i m
desirable.

H o did that and reported back t o the meeting

of the Committee w h i c h d i d n o t take place a n d could not take
place until after I came here t o attend this Conference, a n d

92
y ou will therefore g e e that t h e Comnitves h a s n o t h a d a
great deal o f time t o consider these amendments w h i c h Pro-

fessor Spregue reported.

I t did have a second meeting,

and i t d i d g o over those amendments a n d g

u

c
dditional
h
a

proposals which were made b y Protessor Sprague, b u t i * would
take more time than I believe I

am expected t o boaand a t this

Conference t o g o into t h e details o f thdse provisions and,
as I have stated, t h e formal report o f tne Committee i n
that respect h a s n o t y e t been drawn u p and submitted t o
the Committee itsolf.
Governor Crissinger.

H a v e n ' t y o u a memorandum t h a t

you had over i n m y office t h e other night?
Governor Seay.

W i t h respect t o the first meeting,

yes, b u t n o t w i t h r e s p e c t

t o t h e s e c o n d meeting.

W

e have

report

not received the stenographic/from the second meeting. There
were certain amendments t o the W a t t o n ? B a r k L a w designed t o

furnish more adequate data regarding the cendition o f banks
through examinations w h i c h were proposed, a n d whicn were

of transcendent importance, which I think I might reviews
One o f the proposals w a s that a l l applieations o f
overy nature, b o t h direct a n d indirect, w h i c h a bank entered
into, w h i c h was n o t always customary f o r i t t o record i n


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

93
{+s records should b e recorded

i n it: records a n d showm i n

record s u c h
its report o f conditions, a n d that failure t o

obligations would subject the bank t o a fine of $500.
or
Another proposal w a s that where a n offjcer
a n officer
director o f a National Banking Association i s
or director o f another Banking Association,

a n d where i t

other banking
was necessary t o secure t h e report o f the
true conditions o f
associations i n order t o determine t h e
under examination
the bank under examination, t h a t t h e bank
that other bankghould b e required t o f u r n i s h aroport o f
ing association;


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

t h a t upon failure

t m d o s o i t was pro-

h a d obtained a loan
vided vhat t h e officer o r director w h o
his office.
from t h e bank should b e disqualified f o r
Another p r o v i s i o n

Revised
w s t h a t Section 5 4 4 6 o f the

this way:
Statutes should b e amonced somewhat i n
Association
be u n l a w f u l f o r a n y N a t i o n a l B a n k i n g

I t shall
t o make

aggregate, unless
a loan o r loans o f more t h a n $500 i n the
secured b y readily m a rice table collateral,

t o any salaried

corporation i n which
officer o f such association o r t o any
association
guch officer o r any director o f such banking
owns o r c o n t r o l s a

majority o f t h e stock;

t h a t violation

officer t o act
of this provision shall disqualify s u c h

as such officor o r director o f the bank.
Another p r o p o s a l w a s t o s h o r t e n t h e p e r i o d a l l o w e d

for the time o f assossments

i n cases o f impaired capital.

The Comptroller h a d oxpressed t h e opinion that h i s experience

seemed to indicate that this period should be shortened.
It i s now 9 0 days, a n d the proposal w a s that i t b e shortened

to 60 days, t o the extentod i n the discretion o f the Comp-~
trollor.

T h i s i s once o f the provisions which i s intended

to give t h e Comptroller's Office greater powers o f supervigion a n d t o add t o hig authority i n that direction.
There w e r e some provisions i n tho proposed amendments
to Section 5200 which were considered.

P e r h a p s t h e most

important w a s that which decreases t h e limit whsech a n individual f i r m o r c o r p o r a t i o n m a y b o r r o w u p o n n o t e s s e c u r e d

by shipping document, p i l l s o f lading a n d s o forth. ‘ T h e

Committee proposed that the limit should b e 15 per cent


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

for a

p e r i o d o f s i x monthse

B u t that for a

period o f t h r e e

months i n order t o aide a m orderly marketing, there might
be a n additional oxtension o f the limit o f 15 por cent,
making t h e total amount which mignt b e extended o n obligations o f that charactor 4 0 per cent, 1 5 o f which should b e
for a period o f three months i n any consecutive 1 2 months,

ay
15 additional might b e f o r s i x montnos upon identical commodities f o r any period o f s i x months i n a consequbive 1 2 months,
P a y

Or

C O M O ar =

thus m a k i n g t h e l i m i t

f o r a n y o n e person,

tion 4 0 per cent. I

might s a y the Comptroller oxpressed

the opinion t h a t h e was disposed t o g o much further than

tha te A s x understood h i m h e was even disposed t o go s o
fur u s t o p e r m i t t h e l e n d i n g o f 1 0 0 p o r c e n t o f capital a n d

surplus under s u c h condition. I

think that while t h a t pro-~

posal d i d not come formaliy before t h e Committee, t h e general

feeling was that i t wonldmimdvitably drive the menuber banks
into t h e r e s e r v e b a n k s a s b o r r s w e r s u p o n a

large scale,

it

would n o t b e s o easy t o get t h e m o u t and that i t would have
a tondency towards expansion
Committee w a s t h e r e f o r e

i f n o t t o w a r d s infiation.

«The

o f t h e o p i n i o n t h a t 4 0 p e r cent, u n d e r

the circumstances which have been enumerated, w o u l d b e t h e
extent t o which i t was pdwuiBablo t o go6.
There w a s o n e provision which h a d been proposed a s a n

amondment t o Section 2 4 o f tho Federal Reserve Act, referring


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

to the extent t o which banks might invest a n y o f their funds
in investment securities a n d s o forth, w h i c h i t w s thought
better t o place i n Section 5200 a s a n extension o f tho
Limitation,

a n d t h a t w a s d o n e accordingly.

I

t w a s thoreforoe

96

voted that the Limit t o which any bank might investits funds
in a n y o n e g e o u r i t y s h o u l d b e 1 5 p e r c e n t i n addition

t e tho

existing 1 0 per eent a n d i t was also voted that this should
be d o n e u n d e r s u c h r e s t r i c t i o n s

a s t o the character a n d

volume which a n y bank might engage in, a s imposed p y the
Comptroller o f the Curroncy.
< think, M r . Chairman,

t h a t t h a t covers t h e principal

points w h i c h t h e C o m m i t t e e c o n s i d e r e d .

I

t should b e under-

stood t h a t t h e s e a r e o p i n i o n s w h i c h w i l l b e r e c o r d o d a n d
transmitted

t o t h e Board f o r such u s e a s t h e B o a r d m a y desire

to make use o f them.if the Board igs called upon, a s the Committee understands,

t o take a n y position toward t h e legisla-

vion w h i c h i s n o w proposed,

Y o u m a y interrogate a n y other

members o f the committee a s t o any peints o f importance

which the Chairman has overlooked.
Governor Crissinger.

H a v e y o u a n y suggestions,

Professor Sprague?
Governor S e a y e

I

f y o u will pardon m e just a

there w a s o n e p r o p o s a l s u g g e s t e d

b y Professor Sprague

hig s t u d y o f t h e s e q u e s t i o n s w r i c h I

overlooked.

moment,
in

had f o r t h e moment

p r o f e s s o r Sprague proposed t h e appointment

of what might b e termed a superboard, consisting o f the


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

97
2 Governor o f t h e F e d e r a l R e s e r v e B o a r d ,
the C u r r e n c y a n d t h e U n d e r - S e c r o t a r y

t h e Comptroller

of

o f t h e Treasury, b e f o r e

which might b e brought those officers o f panks which continued
to violate t a e lawe A

pehalty w a s provided which would

vacate their offico u p o n declaration o f t h e Comptroller t h a t
they w o r e i n c o n t i n u o u s v i e l a t i o n o f t h e law.

considered t h a t proposal.

T h o Committec

T h o Committee h a d i n mind that

to
the general purpose o f the legislation n o w proposed w a s
increase t h e attractiveness o f tho National Banking System
and t o put i t tpon a n equality with t h e gtate banks, . a n d

in the minds o f some members o f the Committce, a t least,
the opinion w a s that this provision, although i t might have
s counterpart perhaps i n the N e w York Banking L a w imposing

a penalty, h a s n o counterpart i n the laws o f various states,
and the foar was expressed that i t might b o regarded a s a n
autocratic provision which might have some terifying influence
upon a bank, a n d t h e vote o f the Committee w a s t h a t i t was
inexpedient t o cstablish s u c h a suporboard.

Professor Sprague.

Y o u might say a ward about

the vote o n tho proposals o f the Agents’ Committee o n Reserves.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Governor Seay. W i t h respect to the Agents’ Committee

98
the report
on Reserves, s e v e n o f the nino points proposed b y
of t h e G o m m i t t e e w e r e t a k e n u n d e r c o n s i d e r a t i o n e
o f the
The f i r s t a n d m o s t i m p o r t a n t r e c o m m e n d a t i o n

deposits.
Committes w a s with respect t o deductions f r o m
clearing houses,
The Committee proposes t h a t exchanges f o r t h o
checks

o n other banks

i n t h e s a m e olty, a n d c h e c k s I n pro-

Banks o r
cess o f collection (whether with Federal Resorve
Schedule
correspondent banks) according t o Fecera). Reserve
b e deducted
of time required f o r collection o f checks, s h o u l d
from d e m a n d S o e c n k es,
the
The v o t e o f t h e c o m m i t t e e s e e m e d t o c e n t e r u p o n
a
point a s t o w h e t h e r t h e r e g h o u l d b e p e r m i t t e d
of c h e c k s

i n process

o f coilcction,

mittee w a s t a k e n u p o n t h a t point.

and a

deduction

vote o f t h e c o m -

T h e r e were t h r e e i n favor

deduction.
of allowing deduction a n d three opposed t o allowing
U p i n the
I might s a y t h a t s u b s e q u e n t l y t h e m a t t e r c a m e

anticipate
Governors! Conference, and, ywhilo not desiring t o
the report o f that Conference, I
matter w a s concidored,

might say that the whole

a n d those members w h o h a d voted i n

the
favor o f i t o n the committee t o o k into consideration
know,
ontiro scope o f the recommendation, w h i c h a s they a l l
due t o
permit n o w t h e c i t y banks t o deduct f r o m d u e from and


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

99

their checks f o r t h o clearing houses a n d banks i n the same
place, a n d they consider t h a t the c i t y banks h a d that pri-

vilege, p u t that the country banks, d u e t o the conditions
which s u r r o u n d e d t h e i r o p e r a t i o n s

i n carrying accounts

of

their member banks, d i d n o t have tnat privilege, a n d certain members o f the Sommittee w h i c h h a d votea i n favor o f

the amendment i n the scossion o f the committee voted against
the amendment i n t o to, a n d i t seems t o m e a t this point
there i s s o m e e x p l a n a t i o n

o f t h e attitude

o f t h e members

of

the Gommittee which i s noeded

Governor Strong.

Y o u have not oxplained the reason

why the Conference o f Governors t o o k t h e position i t did i n
regard t o t h e deduction.

W e have t o d a y pending a

suit against

thetioderal Reserve System which, a m o n g other claims contains

the claim that the member bank can assert the right t o count
yncollected checks a s reservo deposits, a n d i t Seems t c some
of u s rather inconsistent Ahdtweeshould s a y that that provigion i s a n unsound development i n banking i n the United
States t h a t a cneck i n process o f collection should f o r m a n y
part o f a reserve, a n d then a t the samo time u d e approaching

Yongress with a recommendation t o permit all such ehecks
in process o f collection t o b e deducted f r o m gross deposits


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

on which t h e reserve calculation i s made.
Governor Crissinger.s T h e r e i s a difference between
the Pascagoula c a s e a n d this proposal.
Governor Strong. I

beg your pardon?

Governor Orissingcr. I

say there i s a difference

botween t h e P a s c a g o u l a c a s > a n d t h i s proposal.

Governor Seaye

think.

T h e same principle i s involved I

T h e y are contending for the immediate credit o f all

checks.

T h i s proposal

i s r e l a t e d t o i t i n t h a t i t proposes

to pormit deduction o f such checks.
Govemor Crissinger.

D e d u c t i o n f r o m gross deposits

before computing reserves?
Governor Seay.

Yes.

T h a t i s o n e stop toward

adopting t h e contention o f the complainant i n the Pasca-

goula case. T h e r e were two points, Mr. chairman, which
the C o m m i t t e e f e l t m u s t b e r o s e r v e d f o r f u r t h e r study.

n
a the
One was t h e reserve o n time a n d savings d e p o s i t s , d
other was s
Sprague,

egregation o f savings deposits.

Professor

i n his travels over t h o country a n d i n his interro-

gations o f the banks with which h e came i n contact, came t o
the conclusion t h a t i t would b e wholly impracticable,
not impossible,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

a t t h e present time,

if

t o d o anything which

Ol
would tend t o permit t h o segregation o f savings deposits e n d
he therefore, h a v i n g been a strong advocate o f that proposal.
decidod t h a t m t was incxpodient t o entertain t h e idea a t the
presont time.

T h e Committee w e n t o n record a s favoring

the Segregation o f savings depsoits i n principle, b u t + %
mattor w a s reservea f o r sore further study, a n d t h e question
of reserve against time a n d s

aving deposits being somewhat

analagous t o it, that was also raserved for future con-:
sideration.

I t might b e mentioned t h a t i t was felt that

the o n e burning question with regerd t o t h e McFadden Bill,
the branch banking system, w a s regardec b y t h e Committee t o
bo i n a vory unsatisfactory stago, b u t n o further position
than
by the Committees w a s taken which I have announced w a s takon
toward that p r o v i s i o n f
o the Act.

Governor Crissinpawsx I

think it vould be well i f this

question o f deduction o f checks f r o m gross deposits should h e
taken u p n o W e

T h e Federal Resorve Agents reported

i a favor

of i t and Mr. Martin will please present their position.
Mr, Martin.

A t the timo this question c a m e before

the Federal Peserve Agents f o r consideration w e knew o f n o
opinion having been rendorsd i n regard t o ite W e voted
that such deductions w e r e cesirable,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

T h e duty o f preparing

6%
the re@®mmendation t o the Board w a s assigned t o me, a n d I per=
haps might preface m y report b y this statement:

I

n the

old days t h e due t o and d u e from banks seomed t o b e s e effort
to equalize w h a t w e might call t h e paper

P O

o e Since

the establishment o f the Federal Reserve banks, through
their deferred t i m e scheduie, t h e paper deposits have really
developed i n t o a c t u a l deposits.

W i t h t h a t purpose I

beg

leave t o submit the following report:
It i s b e l i e v e d

b y t h e Conferonce

o f Federal R e s e r v e

Agents t h a t i t i s desirable, a n d that t h e Federal Resorve
Board c a n b y regulation p u t i n force t h e first recommendation p u t i n t h e r e p o r t o f i t s c o m m i t t e e

o n reserves, n a m e l y :

‘Permit t h e deduction f r o m demand deposits o f (a)

exchanges for clearing houses, (b) checks o n other banks i n
the same place, a n d (c) checks i n process o f collection
(whether w i t h Feceral Reserve Banks or correspondent banks)
according t o Federal Reservo Schedule o f time required f o r

coilection o f checks.’
"all such items are accepted b y banks for collection
and credit, a n d all banks retain t n e right t o charge back a n y

such items not paid.

E v e n though called ‘deposits! t h e y

are entirely different f r o m a deposit o f cash.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

S u c h a cash

LO3
deposit immediately creates t h e relationship o f debtor a n d
creditor, w h i l e t h e receipts o f any o f the above-mentioned
items i s i n the nature o f a n agency until t h e actual c o l Lection i s made, a n d i f the bank advances funds before t h o

collection i s completed and the collection i s never completed,
then Lbocharges b a c k t h e amount, w h i c h i s another w a y o f saying that t h e bank makes i t s customer p a y the loan o f the
money a d v a n c e d .

"Tig theory o f collection o f credit i s confirmed b y
the charge commonly made b y clearing house rules i n regard

to s uch items. C l e a r i n g houses d o not charge exchange,
put where i t takos time t o collect a n item, w h e n a

depositor

wishes immediately d r a w against s u c h a n item, t h e bank charges
interest o n tho amount f o r the time

i t takes t o collect i n

accordance w i t h t h e Federal Reserve Schedule, a n d i n the

evont the item i s dishonored, then b y charging back, t h e
bank i n effect c a u s e s i t s l o a a t o b e paid.

"Such being the case b y deducting the above mentioned
items the effect i s t o omit them i n computing the bank's
demand deposits, a n d there would s e e m t o b e every reason w h y
they should b e omitted, a n d n o conflict w i t h l a w i n doing so.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Such a ruling b y the Board would correct t h e present

LO4

jinoquality existing i n favor o f the large city banks i n
computing reserves, a n d i t is believed would have a n o x cellent effect, w i t h but a onmparatively small actual d e crease

r c g a t e r e s e r v e s ( a p p r o x i m a tel
i n t h e System's a g g
GErCE

542,000,000) «
Wpurther i t i g a regulation t o which n o one will
Ob jor.

i t cormects

a n injustice w i t h o u t creating a

hard-=

ship f o r a n y one.
It i s suggested, however, t h a t a s s u c h a r u l i n g

might have some bearing o n the Pascagoula caso now pending,
it might b e well for the Board t o consult with counsol i n
that case, a n d i f i n his judgment desirable, d e f e r such
muling, s h o u l d i t decide t o make it, until t h a t case i s

finally disposed of.”
Mr. Jaye

I t is interesting t o rote that this i s

the third successive y o a r that t h e Agents have recommended
this u n a n i m o u s l y a n d t h e G o v e r n o r s h a v e u n a n i m o u s l y r e c o m -

mended against it.

Mr, Jamese N o t unanimously.
Governor Stronge

I t seems t o m e there i s a little

inconsistency i n the resoluticn presented;

i n fact t h a t

the resolution seems t o b e predicated u p o n t h e theory


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

7.85

that a membor bank collecting a check i s acting i n the capa~
city o f a n agent with t h e relation o f debtor a n d creditor n o t
arising until t h e collection i s completed;

recognizes the fact that the procoeds o f t h a check when
collactei aro immediately drpditaddte t h o depositer's account,
and the bank does i n fact vreate t h e relationship o f debtor
and ereditor which i t i s claimed i n this resolution. Another
curious inconsistency arises i n the fact t h a t the charge o f
intorest w h i c h i s i m p o s e d a g a i n s t t h o d e p o s i t o r f o r t h e
collection

o f this i t e m which i s immadiatoly credited

his account,

w e know cannot b e sustained b y t h e practice

of banks, b e c a u s e t h e y o b j e c t
except

i n exceptional c a s e s , a

uncollocted funds.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

to

t o i t a n d d o n o t permit,
depositor

t o draw against

T n e resolution appears t c m e t o b e in-~

consistent f r o m beginning t o end. I

fecl that i t i s also

inconsistent w i t h o u r position i n the Pascagoula case.

I n

the Pascagoula Caso - ~ I do not want t o argue t h e l a w with
Mr. Wyatt, w h o i s more compotent t o d o i t than a m I == but

in tho Pascagoula case w e set u p exactly the same conten~
tion, that i f the Federal reserve banks should act as agonts
in collecting these checks the relation o f dobtor and
creditor does n o t arise until t h e process o f collection

LOG
is completed.

T h e Pascagoula B a n k contends i n effect t h a t

° »
they b u y the checks, t h a t i s i f tney a r e entitled t o immed-

fate c r e d i t o r a d v a n c e u p o n that,

a n d that puts t h e check

in the position o f being cashmtihen i t is placed i n the poskose-

Bion of the reserve banke- i n other words collected funds.
To contend that deduction shall b e made f r o m gross d e p o s i t s
of checks i n process o f collection soems t o m e i s a recognis
tion o f t h e p r i n c i p l e t h a t c r e d i t i s i m m e d i a t e

o n t h e books

of the reserve bank, w h i c h tends t o create t h e relationship
oar debtor a n d creditor i n considering t h a t these checks a r e

items = - not items due from banks, b u t a balance due from a
bank, a n d they a r e n o t a balance d u e f r o m a bank until t h e y
are paid.
Mr, J a m e s e

M a y I

a s k G o v e r n o r Strong,

o n t h e basis

of the explanation h e has just made, w h a t relation t h e time
schedule o f the reserve bank would have i n a case o f that
kind?

I t i g just a matter o f theory that t h e collection

has been made a n d not a fact, w h e n t h e credit i s really p u t
to the account o f the bank f o r whom t h e Federal Reserve
Bank i s acting,

i s i t not?

Governor Strong.

Well, I

think t h e facts a r e that

it would b e impractical f o r tho Federal Reserve Banks t o


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

LOFT
time s c h e d u l e w h i c h w o u l d o p e r a t o e x a c t l y w i t h

dovise a

every p a y i n g b a n k w i t h r e g a r d t o t h e s e

c n e c k s ,hen¥ y o u c o n ~

sider delays i n the mails, a n d s o on, a n d which would insuro
that e v e r y c h e c k h a s a c t u a l l y b e e n c o n v o r t e d i n t o a

cash

balance a t the e n d o f the time schedule,
Mr. J a m e s .

Youldn't

i t b e necessary f o r i t t o have

been c o n v e r t e d i n t o a n actual c a s h b a l a n c e
and t e c h n i c a l l y c o m p l y with

Governor Strong.

i n ordor t o fully

l e g a l s i d e o f t h e argument?

I t would, e x c e p t y o u have g o t t o

recognize t h a t these mathematical propositions a r e n o t capable o f being perpetuated i n such a matter. I
yould v o m e u n d e r t h e r u l e o f l a w t h a t t h e l a w d o e s n o t t a k e

any account o f trifles.

I t i s a trifling inconsistoncy

ahich does n o t impair t h e principle applied t o t h e time
scnedule.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Mr. JamcoSe
given a

T h e Federal Reserve Agents m a y nave

reasonable a m o u n t o f c o n s i d e r a t i o n

t o that idea
a

too, G o v e r n o r Strong.

Governor Strong. M b . James, the Conference o n
yesterday considered t h e question o f time schedules v e r y
fully.
Oute

M a n y inconsistencies

i n the schedulewere pointed

W e rocognize t h a t i t i s not m a t h e m t i c a l l y accurate

e

L988
and a

rosolution w a s passed t o refer t h e whole subjoet

of

time: schedules to the standing committee on collections.
They are t o make a further, a n d I hope, scientific s t u d y o f

them, t o see i f the time allowed for collection o f checks
cannot b e s o perfected that float i s practically eliminatod
entirely.

T h e presont tine schedules a r e fairly accurato,

or t h e f l o a t w o u l d b e v e r y m u c h g r e a t e r t h a n i t i s i n propor-

tion t o t h e total. | Mr. Rounds pointed out, i n connection
with this proposal, a

very simple fact, w h i c h illustrates

how the time schedule could be made t o work, a n d that i s if
every member bank would s e t u p bookxkeeping o f its o w n
deposits a n d collection items, t h a t i s cash items, e x a c t l y
as t h e r e s e r v e b a n k s d o , t h e y w o u l d t h o r e b y c a r r y t h e m o n

their books a S a n agssot, t h o amount o n their books o f uncol-

Lleéted checks a t any one time being these which are determinod
by the time schedule, a n d then among their liabilities they
would s e t up, exactly a s w e do, a

contingent liability which

will become a n actual o n e t o thair depositors w h e n those

checks aro colloctod.

B u t the banks are not willing t o do

that b o c a u g e t h e y w a n t t o s h o w t h i s i t o m a s a

Mr, Waighe G o v e r n o r Strong,

deposite

d o I understand y o u t o

say t h a t t h e m e m b e r b a n k s s h o u l d k e e p a n account

o f that k i n d

of the items wnich t h e y send in, a n d not take credit f o r them


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

until t h e t i m e l i m i t expires?

T h e practice n o w pretty generally

Governor Strong.
established, I
deposited

am informed,

b y i t s depositors

in f r o n t o f t h e p a s s b o o k a

i s for a bank t o enter a l l checks
a g deposit liability,
notice

a n d t o put

t o the offect that t h e y

are acting a s agent i n 4 collecting those checks.

NT

Now w h e n a

depositor w h o n a s n ' t t h e v e r y b e s t c r e d i t , a t t o m p t s
out t h a t b a l a n c e w h i c

t o dra

Peer

W

hnhas not been collected, they promptly

\-

gend the check back gtamped "uncollected funds", gocthaé
- not

ookkeeping i s entirely i n accord, ascording t o m y notion,
vith t h e 1 e
oegal position o f the bank t h a t docs t h e collecting
*
nor i g i t i n accord w yi t h the common practice o f e f u s i n g

to allow depositors i n banks t o draw o u t uncollected funds.
Mr. W a l s n . A

very large numbor o f t h e member banks

n tho l l t h District c a r r y t h o s e items

in a

sustained a c c o u n t

and d o not take credit f o r thom until t h e time limit expires.
ITnotice t h a t b e c a u s e w h e n I
had a

sustained account

was i n a momber b a n k w e always

w carried t h e items t h a t
i n which: e

WayVe

Mr. Gurtiss. I

would like t o ask Mr. Walsh i f h e

carried t h a t account against e a c h individual account o n


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

he b o o k s ?

110
Walsh,

N

o w e d i d not.

W

e carried i t i n a

general sustained account.
Governor Seay.
Federal R e s e r v e Bank.

Y

o

u refer t o t h e account w i t h t h e

Y o u d o n o t mean a n account W i t h re-

gpect t o i t s d e p o s i t o r s ?

No, w e d o not d o that, b u t w e d o keep i t
the Federal Reserve B a n k a n d k e t a l l y o n it.
Governor Orissinger.

Mr. Miller.
cutLined

T h a t action d o y o u wish, gentle-

A r e w e t o understand that t h e report a s

b y Governor S e a y i s approximately t h e report w h i c h

is going t o be submitted i n writing?
Governor Crissinger.
Miller.

Y O s e

A n d that covers,

i n the judgment o f the

Committee, all that is necessary to do in order to
alize the National Banking Law?
Goveimor S e a y e

S

o f a r a s t h e Committee c o u l d encompass

those matters i n its short time, yes, a n d s o far a s t h o
studies o f Professor Sprague w e n t i n that direction a n d
proposals.
=

Mr. M i l l e r .

D

o I

understand

t h a t t h e recommendations

of t h e Committee a r e predicated entirely upon what t h e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Professor h a s recommended?
Governor S e a y e

Mr. Miller.

N o t entirely,

b u t v e r y largoly.

C a n w e not hear from Professor Sprague?

I would like t o ask, j u s t a s a matter o f information, woether
this represents a l l that,

i n your judgment,

i t i s necessary

to d o i n order t o liberalize the National Banking Law t o a
point where w e c a n regard the statute a s u p t o date s o far
as i t covers t h e rights a n d powers t h a t i t gives t o National


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Professor Sprague. I
two problems.

should think there a r e really

O n e t h e possibility o f immediate legisla-

tion, a n d as t o that i t would seem t o me that w e can hardly
go very much further t h a n t h e Committee h a s gone,although
they d i d throw o u t perhaps t h e most significant proposal

waich both the Comptroller and I had inmind, and that is
the o n e about t h e Board o f supervision.

W e d o not think i t

is aavi nabs oes take u p matters t h a t a r e decidedly novel a s a
part o f the proposec legislation i n the next session o f ConGresse T h e r e a r e a number o f othor provisions t h a t i t

seomed tlighbabécdesirable t o have i n the law but which, o n investigation, w e adocided were not yorth while.

F o r example

in the matter o f chartering t h e banks, o n e o f the evils o f

ye
the sSituation unquestionably i s the excessive number o f
banks w h i c h h a v e b o e n c h a r t e r e d

the country.

i n a g r e a t m a n y parts o f

C e r t a i n state laws, s u c h a s those o f New York

and Missouri have provisions regarding t h e establishment o f
tiew hanks,

such as a

showing o f advantago

t o the community i n

having a n additionel b a n k a n d that sort o f thing, b u t there
ig n o t h i n g o f t h a t s o r t i n t h e N a t i o n a l B a n k Law. I

do

find i n the practice o f the Comptroller's office all o f
these considerations a r e taken into account, b u t i t was feared

that i f a proposal, similar t o that i n the New York Law, was
brought before Congress i t might not get through, a n d might
upset t h e practico i n the office, a n d i t was thought o n the


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

wholo that i t was bettor t o let sleeping dogs lie, thad you
wouldn't a c c o m p l i s h v e r y m u c h m o r e i f y o u h a d

a l l a f the

existing practice i n the statute, certainly nothing more than
igs accomplished under t h e present control, a n d that i f you
had a different s o r t o f Comptroller, ,

ready t o grant charters

wuenever they were asked for, t h a t y o u probably wouldn't
find i t prevented b y anything i n the statute.
In studying t h e provisions t h a t were considered

lating t o the capital o f banks, i t was felt that there
too many small banks, a n d that t h e mortality among t h e

113
banks w i t h small capital i s very great. I n v e s t i g a t i o n o f
that s u b j e c t c o n v i n c e d

m e that t h e proportion

hanks w i t h s m a l l capital,

o f failures

of

i n states w h e r e t h e r e h a d b o e n a

large mamber o f failures, w a s not excessive when account i s
taker. o f the rumbor o f such banks relative t o t h e total
number o f banks.

I t did not, therofors, s e e m t o b o worth

while t o urge a n inerease i n capitalization s a y t o the former

minimum of $50,000. I

do not think the evidence supports

the view that i t wwoulé b e a striking improvement i n the situatione
The mattor o f sogregation i s I believe o n e which sheuld
be given detailed s t u d y a n d a mattor that should b e brought
forward i n connection w i t h t h e McFadden Bill, a n d perhaps
and
rather informally a t banzers' conventions a n d s o forth,
thet there should b o a n educational campaign o n the subject
genoral,
in tho hope that something, w h o t h c r optional o r
ghould b e definitcly brought forward perhaps a
heneée

year o r two

T h a t covers about a l l ‘that i t seems t o m e t o b e de-

girable t o attempt t o propose a t t h e present time. I

feol

that i n these matters o n e has t o g o step b y step, t o see
what t h e r e s u l t o f s p e c i f i c p r o p o s a l s w i l l b e u p o n t h e w h o l e

Situation;


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

t h a t thére m a y b e desirablo stops t o b e taken

14.
after certain initial steps have been taken;

h a t i t i s rot

possible t o arrive a t a n ideal banking system all at once,
that o n e has t o move i n a more o r less piece _meal fashion,
if you pioase, a n d that perhaps i s a n explanation o f the

abseuce o f anything very strikingly revolutionary i n the
proposals w h i c h wore brought before y o u r advisory committee.

Governor Harding.
committee I

I n attending the meeting o f this

have been impressed w i t h t h e sentiments that have

been e x p r e s s e d a n d b y t h e a r o u n t o f a t t e n t i o n t h a t h a s b e o n

paid b y the committee tonthe question a s t o whether o r not i t
would b e advisable t o get legiglation o n certain points t h a t
seomed desirable.

N o w w e all know that legislation originates

in t h e committees o f Congress.

T h e committee t o whicn a

mattor i g reforred sometimes h a s ao hearing, t h e committoes
wants suggestions, a n d the Committee ivself i s certainly i n


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

much better position t o judge o f the practicability o f getting legislation t h e n are a n y outsiders. I

cannot oscape

the c o n c l u s i o n t h a t i f a n y c a r o f u l l y c o n s i d e r e d r e c o m m e n d a -

tions a r e going t o b e made t o a committee o f Congress,

tha t

those recommendations b e entirely frank a n d based upon what,
in t h e o p i n i o n o f any a d v i s o r y b o d y ,

i s r e a l l y desirable,

without a n y reforence a s t o the practicability o f getting i t

LL&
T h e y simply will l a y their views befcre

through Congress.

which :
the Gommittee/will reject some arid adopt others. I

do not

see h o w a n y o u t s i d e b o d y c a n f o r m a n y a c c u r a t e c o n c l u s i o n

i n

advance a g t o “W88itcr i t i s possible t o get through Congress.
One o f t h e M e m b e r s

o f the Board h a s been Chairman

Banking © Gurrency Committee o f the House and has
experience i n these matters, I
when I

think h e will bear

say t h a t w h a t t h e Committeo r e a l l y desires

is a

can-

did expression o f opinion, a n d that when t h e y have gotten
all o f t h o s e o p i n i o n s t h a t t h e y a r e i n a

better p o s i t i o n

than a n y b o d y e l s e t o j u d g e a s t o w h a t c a n b e p u t t h r o u g h
either t h e H c

y

r the Senate.

Mr. Platt. I

think that is true except the Banking

é Currency Committse generally like t o have their bills a i d
least p a r t l y w r i t t e n b y s o m e o n e outside.
Mr. M i l l e r .

D i d I

understand

f r o m Professor

Sprague

and Governor Seay that t h e Comptroller a n d Mir, Sprague h a d

agreed that i t would be advisable t o set u p wnat i s called
a super-advisory board t e report certain disciplinary action
against certain bank officers?
Professor Sprague.

with t h e Comptroller.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

T h a t proposal I

think o r i g i n a t e d

H e was strongly o f the opinion t h a t

etal
there a r e a

large number o f cases where banks a r e probably

going t o fail, a n d where y o u c a n S e c that coming o n e o r
two y e a r s b e f o r e t h e f a i l u r e - - c a s e s w h e r e i t i s n o t s o
mucn v i o l a t i o n o f t h e l a w a s i t i s t h e q u e s t i o n o f u n s o u n d
practices w i t h i n t h e law, w h i c h y o u c a n n o t r u l e o u t b y

statute without naming all banks i n generals

h e felt i t

desirable that somehow h e should be allowed t o d o something
with those banks i n addition t o putting t h e m o n a special
List f o r f r e q u e n t examination,

which i s the only way h e can

do a t present, s h o r t o f forfsiture o f charter.

A s T under-

stand Lbathat action has only been taken once i n the history
ef the System.

H e did n o t believe t h a t s u c h power snould

be granted t o him as a n individual, b u t felt that it might
properly b e lodged i n a Board.
opposed t o the proposal.
ready said, I

T h e Committee w a s u m n i m o u s l y

I f I may a d d t o what I

think t h a t b e c a u s e

o f t h e absence

have al-

o f any such

control i n the Comptroller's office i t becomes more a n d
moro ineumbent u p o n t h e management o f the several Federal
Reserve Ranks t o soe t o i t that they d o n o t loan over freely
to banks t h a t a r o mismanaged a n d that have excessive loans
to their directors a n d all that kind o f thing.

T h a t i s the

only existing mote o f controlling the banks a t the present
time - - the lending power o f the reserve banks.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Lay
Mr. James. I

would like t o a s k whether t h e Committee

has given a n y consideration a t all t c what seems t o m e t o b e
o
e
S a r e e e a e ;
:
::
a growing practice, t h a t o f having holding companies o w n o c k
in National Banks?
Urofessor Sprague.

T h a t i s covered i n a sense b y t h e

provision which v a s agreed t o b y t h e Committee regarding
chain banks, t h a t i s , t h e p r o v i s i o n r e q u i r i n g s i m u l d a n e o u s
examination

o f banks w h e r e directors h o l d positiongin r e -

lated institutions.

I

t i s a sort o f analogy t o t h e Clayton

We felt that i t was desirable f o r t h e reserve b a n k
to have complete information regarding these related institutions,

g o that a trust company that owns 9 0 per cent c f t h e

stock o f a national b a n k c o u l d b e e x a m i n e d a t t h e s a m e t i m e

the national bank i s examined.

T h e proposals o f the Som-

mittee d o not g o beyond securing full information regarding
the i n s t i t u t i o n s t h a t a r e s o rolated,

i f the status

o r con-

dition o f one cannot b e determined i n the absence o f data
simultaneously secured relating t o other institutions.
may b e d e s i r a b l e

I t

t o introduce additional legislation w i t h

regard t o that matter, a n d that would b e a matter f o r t h e
future.

T h a t igs one o f the cases where i t seems t o m e

it i s n e c e s s a r y


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

t o g o s t e p b y step;

t o d o t h e obvious t h i n g

118

first, a n d then see what i t might b e desirable t o d o subse-~
quently.

Br. Jamose I

did not understand Governor Seay t o men-

tion i n his report anything relative t o chain banking,

or

to t h e particular subject that w e had i n mind, namely. t h e
ease where a holding company owns t h e capital stock o f a

national bank other than the qualifying shares held b y the
directors,

w o will say, t h u s limiting t h e liability o f the

stockholders i n case o f required assessment. I
ceive c f a case T

e

can con-

w h e r e a bank which found itself i n

difficulties might b e owned b y poople o f large means, t h a t
those owners, realizing that their investment i s gone, a n d
that, u n d e r t h e law, t h e y might b e called upon t o put u p
an amount equal t o 100 p e r cent o f their holdings, m i g h t
organize a

holding c o i p a n y a n d l e t that h o l d i n g c o m p a n y

pry t h e stock i n the bank, they,
ing company.

i n turn, o w n i n g t h e hold-

T h e n when t h e bank i s apparently i n a help-

less condition t h o y c a n simplW l e t nature t a k e i t s ecurso,
let a receiver b e appointed, t h e assets o f t h e holding company w o u l d c o n s i s t o f m e r e l y i t s h o l d i n g o f capital s t o c k
in t h e bank,

and a

wealthy f a m i l y w o u l d b e a b l e t o g e t o f f

without paying anything.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

119
Governor Seaye

D o y o u belicve i t possible t o pass

a law, o r that such a law would be constitutional, t h a t nolders
of shares i n any national banking institution s h o u l d n o t


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

hold shares i n any other banking institution?
have n o t given that a n y thovght f r o m

Mic. James. I
that standpoint.

n

e logal side o f i t would b e a perfect

blank t o me., W h e a t I was interosted i n knowing was whether
the Committec h a d given this matter a n y consideration?
Governor Seay.

T h e y gave i t consideration t o

extent t o which professor Sprague has just described,
committee recommending legislation t o t n e offect that
in t h e e x a m i n a t i o n

o f o n e bank,

i t was found t h a t those con-

nected w i t a t h a t b a n k i n g i n s t i t u t i o n w e r e i n control

in

another banking institution, followed b y tne interchange
of investment, bills receivable a n d s c forth, a n d that
the c o n d i t i o n o f t h e b a n k u n d e r e x a m i n a t i o n c o u l d n o t b e

satisfactorily determined without a report o n the banking
institution w i t h which i t was affiliated, t h a t there t h e n
should b e required a statement o f the affiliated banking
institution i n order that t h e real condition o f the bank
under examination

m e a h bo deteimined.

Mr, J a m e S e

B v e n i f you had a

simultaneous examination

LOO
of the holding company a n d o f the banking institution a n d
any other affiliations t h a t they might have, after y o u get
this report o f the examination d o y o u stop there?

I t seoms

to m o that meroly developing t h e information would n o t b e
very much protection t o either t h e stockholders o r the depositors.

I

t looks t o m e like y o u would have t o have

supervision o f a corrective nature i f the examinations
developed t h e desirability o f taking corrective steps.
Governor S e a y e

I

f i t were disclosed t h a t there

existed a n y conditions w h i c h violated t h e existing law,

then i t is presumed that those having the vostod authority
to administer t h e l a w would t a k e action.
largely u p o n t h e Comptroller's office,

T h a t would devolve

o r chiefly upon t

Comptroller's office, s o far as I Imow, and a condition
is s e t u p which i s extremely involved a n d complicated.
Mr. J a m e s ,

1

t “certainly i s .

Governor S e a y e

I

t c a n b e e v a d e d b y various prococssos

which are regarded a s logal, a n d it-is doubtful that they
could b e reached under a n y condition.
consideration w i t h r e f e r e n c e
which i s r e c o g n i z e d

h e r e c c o n e s i n one

t e t h e s u b j e c t o f b r a n c h banking,

b y chain banks a n d which m a y b e even more

pernicious than branch banking becauso i t cannot be reached ~ ~


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

paront
that i s t h a t i n t h e c a s e o f t h e b r a n c h b a n k i n g t h e

d
n
a they
bank i s k n o w a n d t h o relations m a y b e f o l l o w e d ,
are all

j e c o z a m i n a t i o n , b u t i n the case o f chaim

banking t h e y a r e entirely within t h e text o f existing law,
so f i r a g i s Imown, a n d I believe i t i s generally considered
that thero i s nothing t o prevent a n d c a n b o nothingto provont t h e holders

e f stock i n one institution holdings stock
T

in a n o t h e r i n s t i t u t i o n .

law c o u l d b e

t may b e that a

passed f o r b i d d i n g t h o n o l d i n g o f a

preponderate i n f l u e n c e

o r a m a j o r i t y o f tho stock o f another institution, b u t that
ig a

matter w h i c h w i l l require v e r y careful s t u d y f r o m a

Logal standpoint.
Mire JamoSe

A n d that i s a study that I want made.

Governor S e a y e
that t h i s Committees

young committeo;

I

t must b e t a k e n i n t o consideration

i s i n i t s inception;

i t is a

very

t h a t a s f a r a s t h e prosent goes i t has h a d

for c o n s i d e r a t i o n o n l y t h o s e s u b j e c t s w h i c h a


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

immediately proposed f o r legislation,

a n d i t has chiefly

confined i t s consideration t o those topics.

T - b e l i e v e that

the Committee w i l l function along lines upon which i t i s

desired t o function b y the Board, and also along lines which
it may itsolf develop i n the consideration o f the subject.

Jae
think i t i s a very important subject.

Mr. Curtiss. I

We have h a d a developmont i n t n e N e v England District o f investment t r u s t companies.

W

e have o n e company doing nothing

put buying bank stocks and i n its advertisement i t points
out that a n y o n e participating i n that trust i s not subject
to double liability.

T h e y a r e simply pointing o u t t o o u r

memb3r banks t h a t they a r e losing a part o f the protection
that t h e y o u g h t t o have, a n d I

think i t i s a

very important

mattere
Mr, James.

S

Covernor Seay.

O 90 ks
D

o y o u k n o w o f a n y l a w i n your stato

which prevents those investment companies from functioning i n


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

that w a y ?

Governor Seaye

I - d o not.

Governor Seay.

T h a t i s the point wnich i s brought u p

for c o n s i d e r a t i o n b y Mr. James.

Governor Harding.

T i e point raised. i s a very. in-

portant question, because there i s going t o b e more a n d more
chain banking. C o r p o r a t i o n s w i l l b o organized f o r the
purposo o f taking stock i n national banks. I

de n o t know

whother i t i g a t all feasible a s a matter o f lay,

c o u n s e l

can advise o n that, b u t I think this whole thing could b e

123
very easily cured b y Congress enacting a

law that wherever

a corporation holds stock i n a national b a n k a n d i t becomes
necessary t o levy a n assessment o n the stockholders, a n d t h e
: n o t :
corporation i s capable o f meeting t h e assessment, t h a t t h e

assessment shall b o traced o n d o w t o the stockholders o f
he corporation.
Mr. JameSe

T h a t meets m y idea exactly.

do not know whether that is

Governor Harding. I

possible, b u t i f i t is, i t will cure t h e situation.
Governor Crissinger.

M r . Martin,

are g o i n g t o h a v e t w o r e p o r t s

i t seems t h a t w e

o n t h i s o n e subject.

Would

you mind stating whether y o u r report was unanimously sdopted
by t h e Federal Reserve Agents?

Mr, Martin.

I t was m y understanding that the report

as rendered w a s unanimously adopted. l l o w e v e r t h e Agents
are present, a n d they c a n state whether o r not that w a s a fact.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Governor Crissingere

J u s t f o r t h e benefit o i t h

Board, h o w d o the Governors s t a n d o n it?

I t was three t o

hree i n t h e Gommittee.

Mr, Platt.

Y o u are talking about t h e proposition

of the checks i n process o f ccllection being deducted from
gross deposits?

Yes.

Governor Crissingers.
Governor Strong.

W

e w e r e u n a n i m o u s l y o p p o s e d t o it.

Governor Young. N o , Mr. Chairman.
Governor Harding. I
Statement.

Gongerence.

would like t o qualify that

T h e r e w e r e t w o votes takes a t the Governor's

T h e first vote was unanimous, that deductions

might b e mado i n the case o f city banks, oxchanges f o r
clearing housse a n d checks o n other panks i n the same
place, b u t when i t came t o t h e quostion o f allowing that
deduction f o r t h e country banks I

think t h e vote was t e n

to two against i t e
Governor Strong.

T h a t i s correct.

Governor Harding. t

think t h e point was raised

about allowing a deduction for the city banks and not
extonding i t t o the country banks, a n d then t h e Conference
voted t o strike t h e whole thing f r o m t h e record.

T h a t is

my recollection o f it.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

the d

Governor Crissinger.

T h e n y o u really h a d n o vote?

Governor Strong. A

thing which largely influenced

a
w the inconsistency o f this recommendai s c u s s i o ns

tion a n d the position taken i n the Pascagoula case.
Governor Orissinger.

this?

I

s there m

ything further o n

I f n o action i s necessary i t will b e referred t o

the B o a r d

f o r such action

a s t h e B o a r d s e e s f i t t o take.

Is t h e C o m m i t t e e a p p o i n t e d l a s t e v e n i n g o n t h i s A m e r ican R a i l w a y A s s o c i a t i o n m a t t e r r e a d y t o report?

:

L

2

Mire M i t e h e l l I

B

-

1

2

6

would l i k e t o s p e a k t o G o v e r n o r S e a y

about o w r report.

Governor Crissinger.

W i t h reference t o Mr, McFadden's

for
Letter t o m e i n reference t o permitting banks t o borrow
a period b e y o n d t h e 1 5 « d a y period,

s a y t o 9 0 days, I

would

has taken
lize t o k n o w w h a t a c t i o n t n e G o v e r n o r ' s G o n f e r e n c e
on t h a t a n d w e w o u l d l i k e t o h e a r n o w w n a t t h e G o v e r n o r s

have t o g a y about it,
Governor Stronge

W e voted, I

think unanimously,

i n inGovernor Grissinger, t h a t w e s a w n o particular h a r m
o n l y cover
ereasing t h e period t o 6 0 days, b u t t h a t i t should
eligible paper a n d not Government bonds.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Governor CGrissinger. W h a t action did the Federal
Reserve Agents take?

Mr. Perrin.

O u r vote o n that was s i x to three i n

favor o f e s t a b l i s h i n g a

period o f 9 0 d a y s f o r p a p e r s e c u r e d

o f their
by eligible paper. ‘ T h r e e voted against i t because
speedy
conviction t h a t such action would result i n the rather
discontinuance o f rediscounting a n d reliance u p o n borrowing
diminish~
py pledging a mass o f paper, resulting i n a gradual
ing o f the vigilance i n scrutinizing t h e paper ascopted,

on the ground that, having “120,000 o f collateral perhaps
with
tor a 3L00,000 note i t would not b e deemed necessary,
thig gradual diminishing o f vigilance,

t o determine whether

L27
2

each plece o f paper was o f a n acceptable character.

That

happenopinion i s b a s e d u p o n o b s e r v a t i o n o f w h a t i s a c t u a l l y

bank
ing where s u c h paper i s pledged a s collateral f o r member
notes. G o v e r n o r Crissinger.

I s i t the recommendation o f the

Governors t h a t these direct loans shall n o t b e secured b y
governments a t any time?

Governor Strong.

N o , but a t the time just be in-

creased f r o m 1 5 t o 6 0 days.

Governor Crissinger. Wouldn't it be a good thing if
they w o u l d j u s t e l i m i n a t e

Mr, Perrin.

i t CnpLroLy?

M a y I make a slight addition?

Governor Crissinger. C e r t a i n l y .

the L5-day
Mr. Perrin. M r . Curtiss reminds m e that
t o being se~note was t o be continued a s i t is now, subject
cured b y eligible paper o r government securities.

it
Governor Crissinger. A n y b o d y else? T h a t leaves
up i n the air.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

T h e r e ought t o b e a n agreement o n ate

ite
some way i n order that w e may know what t o d o with
Governor Seaye

W a s that t h e unanimous report o f the

Agents! Conference, M r . Perrin?

Mr. Perrin.

N o , the vote was Sim-tio three.

Mr. Hoxton.

T h e report o f t h e Agents a n d the report

LSA
3
of the Governors tscidentical, w i t h t h e exception t h a t t h e
Governors v o t e d f o r 6 0 d a y s a n d w e v o t e d f o r 9 0 days.

i t is

just a question o f harmonizing those t w o suggestions.
Governor Orissingere

D o the Governors object t o

making i t 90 days?
would object t o i t personally.

Governor Norris. I
r. I
Governor C r i s s i n g eoS

a om a s k i n g SG&o v e r n o r

wnether t h e Governors w o u l d object t o 9 0 days?

Strong

H o w d i d the

Governors vote w i t h regard t o it. G o v e r n o r Norris i s objecting t o ite

Governor Strong.

i t think i t i s going « tittle far,

myself.
Governor McDougal. T

should l i k e t o r e p o r t t h a t

Governor Strong w a s mistaken i n stating t h a t t h e vote w a s
unanimous. I

registered m y vote a s being opposed t o a n y

change i n the law.

Governor Strong. ‘That i s correct.

T h e r e was a vote

against it.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Governor Crissinger.

D o e s t h e Board w a n t a n y further

information about i t ?
Governor Seay.

W i t h reference t o the comment o f Mr.

Perrin a s t o l a x i t y o f a d m i n i s t r a t i o n

i n t h e Federal Reserve

129

“k

banks a n d l a c k o f s c r u t i n y o f p a p e r w h i c h i s s u b m i t t e d w h e n

there i s excess collateral, I

cannot bring myself t o believe

that that practic@ c a n grow u p i n the Federal Reserve banks

when i t is the law that they shall receive only such paper
as i s eligible and acceptible. I

cannot believe that there

igs a n y d a n g e r o f l a x i t y g r o w i n g u p i n a n y o f t h e r e s e r v e

banks i n that respect.
Governor Crissinger.

I s that excess collateral eli-~

gible?
Governor Seay. I

mean when t h e y should offer f o r a

Loan o f 100,000 °)120,000 i n paper. I

think Mr. Perrin

oxpressed t h e opinion t h a t his observation i s t o t h e effect

that the scrutiny o f the paper offered i s not as greatas i t
would b e i f t h e p a p e r

S e o f f e r e d b y itself. I

would l i k e

to s a y t h a t t i e r e i s a t t h e p r e s e n t t i m e s o m e c r i t i c i s m a m o n g

the member banks, a n d I believe among non-member banks, t h a t
that p r o v i s i o n s u b j e c t s t h e m t o v e r y g r o a t inconvenience.

One o f the considerations w h i c h I


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

think governed s o m e o f those

Governors w h o voted f o r it, w a s that this provision w a s i n
accordance w i t h a n American practice w h i c h m d b e e n i n existence f o r many, M a n y years, t h a t i t w o u l d r e m o v e t h a t

criticism a n d that t h e proposal a t t h e time might b e extendéd

died
-

te 6 0 days would violate n o consideration o f economics a n d
that i t was entirely sound;
advanced a 8 quite a

t h a t i t would moet what h a s been

serious objection b y the banks i n the

System, t h a t i s inconvenience t o those banks a n d would remove a n objection o n the part o f those banks which hayennot
entered t h e Systom.

T h a t objection

i s advanced

b y those

banks a n d i t was thought advisable t o d o this.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Mr. Martin.

A g a matter o f practice I

take i t that
96-day

there i g n o m a n i n this r o o m who will not s a y that a

note instead o f a 15-day note would decrease t h e work o n the
part o f the member bank a n d decrease t h e w o r k o n the part o f
s a

matter o f j u s t m e c h a n i c a l

the F e d e r a l R e s e r v e B a n k .

A

practice i t i s desirable.

B u t i t ssems t o me that this

Conference h a s a

matter o f much broader i m p o r t before

it

than the convenience either o f the Federal Reserve Bank o r
of the member bank. W h e r e would such a relaxation,

may call i t that, tend t o lead us? I

i f we

thought o f this thing

quite a good deal after w e met a t the Conference last night.
I know that t h e practice prior t o the establishment o f the
Federal Reserve B a n k w a s t o have a bank make i t s note, t a k e

all the collateral necessary out o f the bill case, attach i t
to the note a n d send i t t o its correspondent.

T h a t was t h e

LL

B
regular process o f borrowing.

T h e correspondent,

i n large

measure, depended upon what i t new about t h e member bank
and not about t h e collateral t h a t was sent t o it. ‘ T h a t


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

was t h e method that was i n use, a n d then t h e Federal R e serve System came in.

I t purports t o establish a system

based upon actual conmercial credit, a n d s o the rediscount
factor was introduced.

L a t e r on. a s Governor Harding will

remember, t h e 15-day note w a s introduced.

N o w there i s a n

idea o n t h e p a r t o f b a n k s t h r o u g h o u t t h e c o u n t r y = - a n d I

rather suspect i f you will read Mr. McFadden's letter that
the g e n t l e m a n w h o p r p p o s e s t h a t m a t t e r h a d i n m i n d t h a t

banks could borrow o n things o t h e r than eligible paper o r
Government bonds,

o r i n other words c o u l d b o r r o w o n a n y

kind o f bonds a n d stocks,

T h e banks have a curious i d e a

about the law, i f that i s not his idea.

I t i s a thing

that t h e member banks a r e taking u p every n o w a n d then.
Tt comes i n from t h e Bank Relations Department occayionalkye

aS

I

f we make any change i n this law, a s desirable a s

it may b e from a practical standpoint, I

am afraid that i t

will open t h e door t o making a l l t h e bank notes secured b y
first Government, a n d then eligible, a n d then t h e next
amendment

i n t h e l a w w i l l b e i n t h e l i n e o f s t o c k s a n d bonds,»

a
“Then, u n l e s s L a m mistaken, a n d y o u -gentlemen -are- all prac-


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

tical men, e v e r y o n e o f you, y o u have all h a d experience

in seeing the correspondent bank deal with its member bank,

and unless I am greatly mistaken you are going to find that
your member bank i s going t o send i n its note secured b y
collateral o f the borrower rather than t o rediscount, a n d
that b r i n g s u s t o t h e q u e s t i o n r a i s e d b y P r o f e s s o r Spraguo.

The service o f the system,

i n its ultimate analysis,

is

pound t o d e p e n d u p o n t h e s u p e r v i s i o n t h a t w e g i v e t h e m a n a g e -

ment o f the banks.

I n a City like N e w York t h e y have a n

absolutely different proposition f r o m those cities o u t i n
the country.

I

n New York t h e y must deal w i t h t n e effect

upon t h e o p e n market,

t h e g o l d fund, t h e p o s s i b i l i t y o f r e -

lation between their rate a n d t h e foreign rate; t h e y have
to d o t h a t a n d s h o u l d d o it;

b u t when y o u get down t o our

section o f the country i t i s another proposition, a n d i t

ig the end of the thing that does not appeal t o the imagination. T

a m freo t o confess tonight that I

can have more

fun personally looking a t a lot o f figures about t h e payments
to the gold fund, international exchange, a n d all that sort
of thing, because t h a t i s painting t h e picture w i t h a large
brush;

b u t o u r j o b down i n our e n d o f the country - -

8

1338

Minneapolis, Richmond, Dallas, S t . Louis, Kansas C i t y a n d
t o a large extent, a n d >

Chicago,

San Francisco - - o u r j o b

is to watch the management of these little $25,000 banks,
to watch t h e type o f paper t h e y offer f o r rediscount a n d
the eredit conditions surrounding it, a n d although t h e note

ig only for $10.G0 -~ and Governor Biggs knows that we have
had them f o r that size ~ ~ our j o b i s not t h e broad, glorious

job o f world affairs, b u t i t is t o take care o f the member
banks handling that $10.90 note i n such a way that t h a t
bank m a y b e compelled t o deal with i t s depositors a n d customers

on 2

s o u n d basis. I

submit t o y o u t h a t t h e j u d g m e n t

with regard t o the small note has got t o be 4s sound as the
judgment with regard t o world affairs. A

mistake i n world

affairs m a y break t h e b i g city man, b u t t h e m a n w h o owns
four acres o f ground s a d a mule c a n have h i s heart broken
just a s quickly a s t h e m a n who owns a million dollars.

T h e

principle o f judgment a r e there, b u t I think a s this System
develops

w e have g o t t o appreciate t h a t d o w n i n o u r section

of the country t h e rediscount rate, t h e open market rate
and the world condition i s not effective.

O t h e r means a r e

necessary, w h i c h means a n everlasting, daily, hourly .and


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

minute c o n t a c t w i t h o u r m e m b e r banks.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Now, a l l o f that leads t o this:

T h a t i f this System

gets t o a place where, instead o f rediscounting t h e actual
paper with statements attached, t h e majority o f its Loans
are going t o b e o n 90-day notes o f the bank, secured b y
eligible paper with additional collateral,

i t is entively

human, i n my judgment, t o think that for awhile these banks
will closely scrutinize t h e bills receivable w i t h their
statements a n d then gradually - - and this i s just a human
tendency ~ ~ g r a d u a l l y

i t will r e a c h a

point w h e r e s o m e d a y

the note i g coming i n from a little bank - - and I

a m speaking

particularly about the little bank -- for say $10,000, secured
‘by eligible paper t o the extent o f 20,000, a n d you will note
that s o m e s t a t e m e n t s a r e n o t attached;

t h e y have been i n

too big a hurry t o get i t t o you; y o u have additional col-

lateral o f $10,000, and the reasonable thing for the banker
to d o i s t o take that note a n d what i t means i s that there

is a relaxation i n the scrutiny o f the individual paper

pohind the loan. I

dislike tc take so much time, but it

just seems t o m e that that i s a tendency

a s

w e should

eonsidsr.
Governor Wellborne

F r o m a practical standpoint i t

seems tna me i t i s a good idea f o r the banks i n our section


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

10

L

1

to take these notes.

3

5

T h e r e i s n o contention o r desire t o

eliminate oligible paper; I

would n o t contend r o r that a t

all, b u t t h e t h e o r y u p o n w h i c h t h e s e r e d i s c o u n t s

o f indivi-

dual nctes w a s based was that they were self-~Liquidating
think w e have all found o u t that that i s a myth,

paper. I

that w e have n o sgelf-liquidating paper outside o f open market
transactions. I

find i n the practical management o f the

bank t h a t i t i s safer f o r u s t o take t h e notes o f the member
banks because i n the case o f the failuwo o f the member bank
we c a n file o u r claim f o r the whole amount, whereas w i t h t h e

individual paper, each piece o f paper has t o stand o n its o w n
feet. T h e r e f o r e I think i t vould be a very good thing t o make
it 60-day paper.
Mr. Newton. I

approach this matter f r o m a little

different angle f r o m the w a y i n which Governor W e l l b o m h a s
approached it.

H e viewed i t with regard t o the advantages

it would give t o the Federal Reserve Bank. I

viewea it,

in m y vote, f o r this Committee report, w i t h regard t o the
advantages i t would give t o t h e c

e

banker. I

been v e r y f a r r e m o v e d f r o m t h a t s i t u a t i o n a n d I
there a r e a

security.

have n o t

know t h a t

good m a n y country bankers w h o believe

i n taking

M r , Martin spoke o f the fact that w e might e v e n

136
ide
find ourselves taking notes other than commercial paper. I
do n o t g e e w h e r e t h e r e w o u l d b e a n y o b j e c t i o n t o t h a t p r o -

vided t h e purpose ‘for which that note w a s given made i t
f a farmer would come into t h e bank that I

eligible.

I

operated I

would take t h e best security that h e had;

i f he

had some liberty bonds I would find i t out and get them;
he had some municipal bonds I
and g e t those bonds.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

i f

would f i n d that o u t i f I could

I f h e d i d not have t h e m a n d I thought

he waS entitled t o t h e loan I would take a deed o f trust o n
hig livestock a n d his crops a n d o n his land - - not f o r the
purpose

o f making a

real e s t a t e loan, p u t t o i n s u r e t h e
A

fact t h a t h e w o u l d b r i n g m e t h a t crop.

friends s a i d t o m e that when I made a

s one o f m y old

loan t o a man a n d

took socurity o n a crop that t h e m a n might d i e before t h e
crop w a s made, o r something o f that kind might happen, b u t
[T gaid i f I

had a

mortgage

o n his l a n d I

pody l o o k i n g m e u p d n ‘ a n a f f o r t

would h a v e s o m e -

t o p a y t h e n o t e off. A

member b a n k t h a t p r o c e e d s a l o n g t h a t c l i n e s t a k e s a

good

deal o f agricultural paper maturing i n from s i x t o nine
months »

Mr. Miller.

H o w about a member bank that does n o t

proceed along that line?

O f course I am assuming that the major-

Mr. Newton.

ity o f our country banks a r e properly managed.
D

Mr, M i l l e r ,

o y o u think that i s a

do, because I

Mr, Newton. I

fair issumption?

think t h e number o f

failures w e have h a d would indicate t h a t t h e majority o f
the b a n k s o f t h i s country,

and a

majority o f t h e country

banks o f this country, h a v e g o o d managerse
Mir. Miller.

W o u l d y o u s a y that there i s a respectable

minority that i s not?


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Mr. N e w t o n e

I a m g o r r y t o g a y past history has shown

that there are too many} b u t I do maintain that tre vast
majorivy o f country bankers a r e g o o d managers o f their i n stitutions, a n d I
statement.
folio, a
months,

think t h e records will sustain m e i n that

N o w , i f the country bank has notes i n its port-

large najority o f which notes r u n f o r s i x t o nine
w e will say, f o r advances f o r agricultural purposes,

that c o u n t r y b a n k e r d o e s n o t n e e d t o s e n d i n t h o s e n o t e s

to

the Federal Reserve B a n k a n d have t h e m discounted f o r s i x
or nine months a n d have them charged u p against h i s discounts
for that time, provided t h a t country banker i s sure that h e
can p a y t h a t m o n e y s a y i n s i x t y o r n i n e t y d a y s . I
in a

believe

great m a n y c a s e s t h a t t h e e x t e n s i o n o f t i m e w i l l b e v e r y

15

1

3

8

helpful t o the country banker, w h o represents a large majority i n the System, I

feel that t h e amendment would b e help-

ful t o a large majority o f the member banks, a n d for that
reason I

voted f o r ite
J u s t before w e go'further w i t h

Covernor Grissinger.

the d i s c u s s i o n o f t h i s q u e s t i o n I

would l i k e t o r e a d a

para-

graph from a letter t h a t was received b y m e from Mr. McFadden,
He r e f e r s

t o t h i s s u b j e c t a n d says:

How a n y group o f experienced bankers should limit b y
law t h e borrowing power o f member banks t o fifteer days,
I a m unable

t c c o n c e i v e b u t t h i s i s t h e law.

he rediscount privilege:

O

f course

i s available i f the member bank

has c o m m e r c i a l p a p e r t h a t i n e v e r y w a y c o n f o r m s

t o the rules

of t h e F e d e r a l R e s e r v e Act, b u t few, v o r y f e w c o u n t r y b a n k s

have enough o f this kind o f papec t o b e o f any great service.
Tt is, o f course,

a n open secret that loans have been renewed

and c a r r i e d u p o n g o v e r n m e n t

c r o t h e r collaterals,

large amounts f o r months andol presume f o r years.

i n very

N o w it

geems t o me that a n amendment giving the member banks the
privilege

o f porrowing f r o m t h e Federal Reserve f o r ninety

days would b e short enough time t o meet the average business
requirements, b u t fifteen days i s n o good a t all. B e f o r e t h e

organization of the Federal Reserve System, w e were accustomed

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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

139

-

to take a list o f paper which w e had discounted i n good
faith without special regard t o the maturity o r the char~
acter o f the loans a n d borrow f r o m o u r N e w York correspond-~
ent a lump s u m o f s a y oighty p e r cent o f the face value o f
those notese

T h i s seems t o b e more satisfastory t h a n t o
notes

rediscount the several pieces of paper and the/pledged form
a semixliquid collateral."
i f t h i s b a n k e r i s correct, t h a t

It i s c o m m o n practice,

these 15~day loans are being constantly renewed with collateral o r Government.

GovernbcRbay.

A n d also oligible paper.

Governor Orissinger,.

A n d eligible paper, a n d i f s o

what objection i s there t o making i t sixty days o r ninety
days?

W h a t i s t h e different?

I

f you renew t h e m constantly

what i g the reason why you should not try t o discriminate
against this kind o f papor i f it is made for ninety days.
Et y o u h e c o n s t a n t l y r e n e w i n g
Governor Seay.

W

i t w h a t i s t h e difference?

e a l l k n o w t h a t t h a t i s correcte

It seems t o m e that Mr. Martin's comments c o n v e y 4 very
gerious i m p u t a t i o n a g a i n s t t h e m a n a g e m e n t

o f the Federal

Reserve B a n k s w h i c h i s f a r t o o s e r i o u s a n d w h i c h I

is unjustified.

believe

W h a t i s t o prevent some country bank,

tw

which Mr. Martin refers, f r e m sending a Federal Reserve b a n k

140

+5

a List o f paper, w e will say $10,000, a n d ask the bank t o


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

oxamine t h e paper a n d take all that i t coukd which conformed
T t e a n d o that just a s well a s i t c a n

to its requirements.

gend i n a note for $10,000 secured b y 315,000 worth o f paper.
Tt m u s t n o t b e o v e r l o o k e d t h a t t h e F e d e r a l R e s e r v e B a n k s r e ~
the

quire, with respect t o the paper eligible for seouring note,
the s a m e d e t a i l e d i n f o r m a t i o n w h i c h t h e y r e q u i r e w h e n t h e y
digcount a

single plieve o f p a p e r b y itself,

quire statements where t h e y a r e called for.

T h e y also r e -

A l l o f that

information h a s t o b e furnished t o t h e Reserve Bank. T h e r e
ig one limitation which will b e imposed u p o n t h e Federal
Reserve B a n k i n taking that class o f paper, a n d that i s

this:

T h a t when i t is lending very liberally i t cannot use

that c l a s s o f p a p e r i n r e d i s c o u n t w i t h o t h e r r e s e r v e b a n k s ;

it cannot u s e notes o f its member banks t o rediscount w i t h
otuer Federal Reserve banks, a n d that i n its elf will impose
a limitation u p o n a n y F e d e r a l R e s e r v e B a n k i n t a k i n g t h a t

papere
Mr. Miller.

W h y n o t include that?

Governor S e a y e

Y e s , and I

think t h a t w o u l d c o m e

naturally.
Mr. Miller. I

think i t would too, I

think overybod:

L41

16

at t h e Gonference knows this, b u t i t i s just a s well t o

state i t again, that i n the Federal Reserve Act as originalLy passed there i s n o provision f o r discounting bills pay~
ablo o f memocr banks.

T h a t w a s introduced later a n d t h e

restriction a s t o time limit w a s very carefully cecnsidered.
think i t would b e worth

It was finally fixed a t 1 5 days. I

whils, especially i n view o f both the statement and the implication that t h e period should b e lengthened, because t h e

provision i s not i n force, t o hear from Governor Harding and
Governor Strong, w h o are familiar with t h e circumstances
gurrotnding it, a s $ c just w h y t h e lo-day limit was criginally imposed. L

myself

a m not particularly attracted

t o an

amendment t o the l a w that i s predicated u p o n t h e failure o f
gome o f the Federal Reserve Banks t o successfully a n d effect-

Ually administer the law as i t is.
in and o f itself, well and good;

I f the thing i s good

i f it is t o be done only

becauso o f failure t o onforce the law and regulation a s i t
is, t h a t does n o t seem t o m e t o b e a very compelling reason.

I would like t o hear from Governor Harding, w h o i s probably
ag familiar with that a s anybody, j u s t what h i s recollection
is a g t o w h y t h i s a m e n d m e n t w a s o r i g i n a l l y a p p r o v e d

b y the

Board a n d w h y t h e t i m e l i m i t f o r t h e s e b i l l s p a y a b l e w a s


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142
fixed a t 1 5 d a y S e

Governor Harding.

M y recolloction i s that that r e -

commendation w a s s u g g o s t e d b y Mr. W a r b u r g .

P r o b a b l y h e had

b u t = do not
nad some consultation with the New York Bank,
i t t o 1 5 days.
know exactly what h i s reason w a s f o r limiting
Of c o u r s e

was v e r y useful
i t c a m e i n before t h e w a r a n d i t

when t h e Government w a s doing i t s financing.

M y recollect-

New York contended
ton i s that o n e o f the large banks i n
t e m p o r a r y emergenciss,
that i t n e v e r r e d i s c o u n t e d e x c e p t f o r

clearing house,
such a s covering bank balances i n the

or

i n order t o d o
something o f that sort, a n d that sometimes
paper that
any rediscounting t h e y would have t o rediscount
order t o take care
ran f o r a s long a s sixty o r ninety days i n

b e permitted
of these temporary porrowings; t h a t they should
w a s i n itself
to make their note a n d secure i t b y paper which
eligible. I

think t h e N e w Y o r k b a n k a g r e e d t o i t b e c a u s e

it would save t h e m a good deal o f work.

Y o u will remember

day
when w e a t first discounted items o f sixty o r ninety
paper t h a t p a p e r w o u l d b e p a i d i n a


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

would come i n f o r a rebate.
it w a s a

few days a n d then t h e y

T h e whole idea o f i t was that

temporary proposition.

Then when the war came o n and the Treasury's operations
used f o r
expanded s o greatly, t h e s e 15~day notes were

18

1

4

3

remember when w e had @ revenue

Government financing. I

pill u p with all sorts o f taxes, stamp taxes and s o forth,
that I

was u p b e f o r e t h e W a y s &

Means C o m m i t t e e

o f the

House a n d I suggested t h a t i n the case o f notes which were
secured b y Government obligations t h a t n o revenue stamp b e
required, a n d pointed o u t that that would facilitate a n d b e
persguagive i n making t h e distribution o f Government s e c u r i t i e s —
he Committee agreed t o that.
So f a r a S t h e B o s t o n D i s t r i c t

i s concerned,

Gurtiss will correct m e i f I am i n orror, 2

a n d Mr.

do not know o f

any instances where w e have a n y bankers! n o t e s discounted
secured b y customers’ notes.

O u r transactions a r e o n l5-~day

paper secured almost exclusively b y Government obligations.

Mp, curtiss.

T h a t is correct.

o avoid putting
Mr, Jaye I s n ' t i t a fact, i n o r d e r t
revenue s t a m p s

o f banks s e c u r e d b y c o m m e r c i a l paper,

o n notes

the Board mado a ruling whereby t h e Federal Reserve B a n k could
discount a lot o f ninety d a y paper f o r t e n o r fifteen days,
or w h a t e v e r

i t might bo?

Governor Harding. I

do not think s0, because the

provision w i t h r e g a r d t o r e v e n u e s t a m p s p r o v i d e d o n l y f o r

notes gecured by Government obligations,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Governor Seaye

Y o u are thinking o f the r e p u r c h a s e

agreement, M r . Jaye
Governor Strong.

G o v e r n o r Harding's memory o f t h e

oceasion f o r t h e a m e n d m e n t

i s p e r f e a t l y accurate.

During

the pericd o f very heavy financing b y t h e Treasury, t h e transfers i n and out o f New York became s o heavy that t h e member
bauks h a d t o Borrow f o r a day o r two large amounts o f money,
which t h e y were able t o p a y off after a

few days.

I t was

a fact that they d i d not have available i n their pertfolios
an adequate amount o f oligible paper maturing i n a f e w days
onabling t h o m t o make t h a t turn-around i n their reserve
account, a n d they were v e r y urgent t h a t some facility b e given
them.

f h e i r practice w a s t o discount paper bearing matur-

ities u p t o sixty days a n d over a n d then within a

few days

they would take that o u t b y rebating i t e T h e amount o f work
involved i n that w a s tremendous a n d one o f our largest borrowerg h a d s h e e t s o f a p p l i c a t i o n b l a n k s p r i n t e d w i t h t h e s a m e

paper o n it.

T h e y would bring i t in, a n d a t the e n d o f the

weok, w h e n t h e readjustment took:place,

t h e y would rebate

it, take i t out, and then come back with the same printed
sheets again.

I f I remember correctly, i n one case w e had

thirty g h e e t s f r o m o n e bank, t h i r t y p r i n t e d sheets, g i v i n g
a list o f t h e e l i g i b l e p a p e r t h a t t h e y w a n t e d t o d i s c o u n t


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29
L45
for only a

few days.

I t was found t o b e necessary then, a n d

it i s necessary now, because there are weeks - ~ quarter days,
for i n s t a n c e

- — w h e n o u r advances

t o member bazks a r e v e r y

large, u p t o a hundred o r a hundred a n d fifty million dollars, j u s t temporarily.
Now a s t o t n e merits o f this question I

would like t s

gay a few words i f I may, Governor Crissinger.
I personally cannot s e e w h y y o u should n o t extert t h o

time for collateral loans for sixty o r ninety days, b u t i t
seems t o m e that i n the course o f the discussion t h e r e were

gome facts i n connection with i t that had not been brought
Outs F i r s t o f all I

do not share Mr. Martin's apprehension

that i t would result i n a rolazation o f care i n the reservo
banks.

I f this i s a good thing t o d o I d o not think w e

should hesitate t o d o it.because w e d o not trust ourselves

to do it right. W i t h o u t desiring to recommend a slavish

copying of practises i n othor countries, I think we have got
to recognize that the Federal Reserve Act has got t o be made
to apply t o t h e conditions i n this country, nevertholess seek-

ing t o benefit b y the oxperience o f foreign hanks o f issue.
Now, t h e desire t o have a piece o f paper discounted

upto its normal maturity, rather than to make a collateral


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a

1

4

6

loan, I believe, i n the minds o f most of the men here,
rests upon t h e theory that i t i s self-liquidating paper
which will b e paid a t maturity, a n d will relieve t h e Federal
Reserve Banks o f a very common request f r o m member banks
and from country banks t h a t a r e borrowing f r o m city banks
to secure a n oxtension o f the collateral loans.

B u t this

is not self-liquidating paper i n a historical sense a t all.
Self-liguidating paper i s taat which i s now o n the New York
Market v e r y largely, w h i c h c o m e s i n t o t h e p o s s e s s i o n o f t h e

reserve bank through the holder and owner, that is a brokor
or m e m b e r bank, w h o h a s a b s o l u t e l y

n o relation whatever w i t h

the payer, t h e primary obligor, t h e bank which h a s accepted

it. T h a t is an accepted draft which comes into our hands,
which i s g o l d t o us,

i f y o u please,

b y a

member b a n k a n d

which has got to be paid by some other bank. ‘There is no
relationship oxisting t h a t justifies t h e bank which s o l d

that paper t o us i n coming t o us and asking for a n oatengion. W h e n i t matures i t will b e paid, o r there will b e
a default b y t h e obligor.

I

n t h e technical sense t h a t

is s e l f l i q u i d a t i n g papor.

a member bank
When w e take the customers’ paper o f
we take i t from a bank which has a customer relationship


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

147
with t h e m a k e r o f t h a t p a p o r a n d o b v i o u s l y t h e m e m b e r b a n k
ig u n d e r s o m e i n f l u e n c e

b y i t s customer

tenfiion i f they cannot pay it.

t o secure a n ox~

W e may thereby have the

same paper coming back t o u s over a n d over again, w h i c h
would n e v e r o c c u r

i n t h e c a s o o f t h i s s o l f ~ L i q u i d a t i n g paper.

Hurope
Now 1 t is a fact that the banks o f issue o f
havo t w o t y p e s o f r a t e s a l m o s t u n i v e r s a l l y .

O n e i s the dis-

count rate o f the bank which applies t o self-Liquidating

interest
papor coming t o it from third panties who have n o
it; a n d
in the discount a n d n e customer relationship t o
which
that self-Liquidating paper i s the instrement through
s o m o ina bank o f issue,by i t s discount rato, exorcises
situation.
fluence u p o n t h e money market a n d the credit

B u t

t o comwhen i t comes t o the extension o f credit generally
r a t e which operates v e r y
mercs a n d i n d u s t r y t h e y h a v e a n o t h e r

that i s the rate o n
largely through their branches, a n d


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Lombard loans»

for
I f you take a bank like the Reichsbank,

the entire
instance, i t has 450 branches, a n d practically
t o i t through i t s
portfolio o f the Reichsbank, w h i c h comes
collateral loans; I
branches, consiists o f Lombard loans,

Bank o f England,
think almost the entire portfolio o f the
loans o n
coming through its 1 2 branches, consists o f Lombard


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

s
c
e ee
1
which they charge a higher rate.

4
8
T h a t i s true today o f

the Bank o f France, that its effective portfolio, outside
of the collection items consists o f five times a s many
Lombard loans a s i t does o f true bills, b i l l s o f exchange
With acceptance.
My t h e o r y a b o u t t h e F e d e r a l R e s e r v e S y s t e m i s t h a t

it has been developed partly a s a stabilizor o f credit conditions a n d operates i n that respect particularly i n tne
money centers,

a n d partly t o oxtend needed credit

country a t times.

t o the

W e have g o t t o uso t h e instrument o f

the bill o r exchange i n our money market a s i t gradually
develops i n mass a n d volume,

a s a means o f advancing t h e

discount rate, that is the rate a t which w e buy the bills,
in o r d e r t o h a v e a n e f f e c t u p o n m o n e y a n d c r e d i t conditions.

But when i t comes t o the interior banks, l i k e St. Louis

and Atlanta, their operations with their members are largeLy t h o s e o f e x t e n d i n g s e a s o n a l credit,

a n d i t seems

t o me

that operation should b e conducted b y the instruments a n d
means t h a t a r e h e c e s s a r y a n d c u s t o m a r y u n d e r t h e w a y t h a t

our banking System h a s developed.
why I

T h a t i s t h e reason

have rather favored having a n extension o f this t i m e

to sixty days o r ninety days ~=- I do not think the time i s


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very material = < t o meet what I belleve i s a need underconditions t h a t oxist i n the country, r a t h e r than t o endeavor a n d i n s i s t u p o n t h e i n t r o d u c t i o n i n t o t h e S y s t e m o f

a fiction that does a o t exist i n banking i n this country
in the interior Federal Reserve banks.
Governor Crissinger.
be g r a n t e d

i to
Y o u s a y t h e e x t e n s i o ns

o n eligible collateral paper?

Governor S t r o n g s

A l w a y s , yeSs

Governor Grissinger.

U n d e r t h e present method,

as I

understand it, i t i s renewed, e v e n when i t i s secured b y
Government obligations, f o r sometimes a s long 4 8 a year o r
maybe t w o years, w i t h regard t o some o f t h e loans, a n d what
is the difference between making i t 90 days a n d renewing i t

all the time? W h a t i s the difference?
Governor Strong. I

listened t o t h e discussion o f

that matter b y Professor Sprague with a good deal o f interest, I

did not say anything because h e has had oppor=

tunity w o make a statistical study o f the circumstances o f
the banks that have been borrowors f o r a year o r more and
T have n o t h a d opportunity t o make such a study.

Any

comments t h a t I would make o n i t would b e largely t h e result

of discussions a t these meetings.

B u t m y belief i s that


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

159

25

cannot
in most o f these cases — - what t h e percentage i s I
day ~ < but i n most o f these cases o f persistent borrowing
banks,

i n the
t h e oceagion f o r t h e persistence r e a l l y arose

of deposits a n d has continued s o ever since;

that it

did not arise principally through a n unjustified exteasion
but d i d
of eredit, s u c h a s Brofessor Sprague rather implied
not definitely state.

T h e reason I

gay that i s this:

That

acting
during t h e period when t h e Federal Reservo System,
obligations
as the agent o f the Treasury, w a s golling short
of t h i s Government,

w e plastered e v e r y bank i n t h e country

with them right u p t o the limit,

w e loaned them t h e money

sale; n o w , w h e n
and created t h e credit which resulted i n the
a time o f adversity came t o many communities i n the country,
many o f t h e m w e r e r e d u c e d

o f the
t o poverty - - t h e swing

eycle w a s such that t h e people i n those communities wero r e -

duced really t o poverty - - 1 t was a debt paying period, a n d
bank doposits shrunk a n d left those banks h u n g u p with
n that period which t h e y could
assets which h a d boen c r e a t e d i
not l i q u i d a t e a n d w e h a d t o c a r r y them.

O n the whole [ I

think i t was a good thing for the country.
Governor Crissinger.
answered m y question.

B u t I think you have not yet

Y o u make a

loan f o r 1 5 days o n


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

L6L

26
Government collateral, a n d i t i s not paid.

T h e y come i n

i t with
and renew i t for fifteen days a n d keep renewing

the game collateral for a year, a n d I want t o know what
days
narm there i s i n making the loan for sixty c r ninety
W h a t i s the difference?

with t h e same collateral?

Governor Strong, T n e r e i g no difference.

I t is

just a question o f the intelligence a n d care Which t h e Re~
serve bank i s managed.

Mr. Mitcholl.

D o I understand that Governor Strong

favors t h e extension?
Governor Crissinger.

eligible collateral.

Yes.

H e says i t must b e o n

D o you mean secured b y Government

obligation also?
Governor Strong.

‘No.

Governod Crissinger.

T h a t should b e left a t 1 5

B u t those socured

securities h a v e b e e n o f f e r e d f o r r e n e w a l

and have r u n f o r a year, a

b y Government

o f the 15~day loans

nd I understand i n some places

two years.
Governor Harding. I

think I

can explain t h e object-

secured
fon t o extending t h e 15-day period o n payments
by Government obligations.

T h e necessity o f using that


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152
7
passed.
eredit t o c a r r y G o v e r n m e n t o b l i g a t i o n s h a s l o n g s i n c e
it i g i n t h e h a n d s m o r e a n d m o r e o f t h e investcrs.
a f e w banks,

w e h a v e a b o u t t w e n t y i n o u r district,

T h e r e are
w h o seem

and t o be
to want t e hang onto their Gevernment obligations
permanently borrowing against them.

I t results i n inconven~

but I
tence t o them t o renew these notes every 1 5 days,
exist. I
think t h e y w o u l d r a t h e r h a v e t h a t i n v o n v e n i e n c e

things,
have asked them w h y they did n o t sell off some o f those

liquid condiget rid of those securities and keep i n a more
tion and not be borrowing all the time,

I f you extend

the limit y o u will encourage t h e m t o Keep o n borrowing,
deters
although h a v i n g t o r e n e w t h e p a p e r e v e r y 1 5 d a y s

a good many o f them from coming in, don't you think, Mr.
Curtiss?

Mr, Curtiss. ‘ e s e
Governot.Seay.

I

t gives t h e reserve banks more

control over i t s reserves.

I i t h e paper i s short time

and o f frequent maturity t h e reserve b a n k has opportunity

4%
to determine whether i t will extend the loan, but L e
makos i t for ninety days t o begin with i t can say nothing
about i t until t h e n i n e t y d a y s n a s expired.

Governor Harding.

Y o u have n o t t h e same argument


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

285

to m a k e i n t h e c a s e o f o l i g i b l e p a p e r ,

Governor Strong. I

think there i s one real object-

m e believe t h a t
son t o this ninety d a y provision, w h i c h made
and
sixty aays would b e a trifle better t h a n ninety days,
there i s
that igs tho fact that i n some parts o f the country
member bank c a n
s.big spread between t h e amount t h a t t h e

bank.
got for its money and what i t pays a t the reserve

I f

money i s
there i s 9 demand for monsy i n some districts whore
worth 1 0 per cent, t h e member bank c a n make a

ninety d a y o r

borrow money
gix m o n t h s l o a n a t 1 0 p e r cent, a n d i m m e d i a t e l y

b a n k a n d make
for that same period from t h e Fedcral Reserve

that soread.

that.
T h a t will inerease the temptation t o d o

t o borrew o n col~
If o n the other h a n d t h e bank i s only able
thirty days, o r a
Lateral i n this w a y for fifteen days o r
t h e reserve b a n k i s
Less period o f time, h e will feel that
h e expects
in position t o mako h i m pay a t any time before
i t will o p e r a t e
to h a v e h i s l o a n s r e p a i d t o him, a n d

t o some

Reserve
oxtent a s a restraint upon misuse o f the Federal
Bank credit.

Mr, Heath. I

have a great deal o f sympathy with the

discussion
comment that Mr. Martin made a t the opening o f this
recorded
Ttconfess that i t was with great hesitation that I


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

29

my vote i n the affirmative i n the Agents! discussion. I
have given a great deal o f thought t o it, a n d I

a m wonder-

ing whether, a f t e r all, t h e basic principle o f the Act i s
violated i n this proposition o f a ninety d a y note against

paper.
Governor Orissinger. I s n ' t i t violated repeatedly
py t h e s e r e n e w a l s f o r f i f t e e n d a y s ?

a m basing m y proposition o n the O d a y

Mr, Heath. I
papers

M

y concoption o f t h e A c t i s that t h e paper

portfolio should b e short time business paper.

i n the

T h e question

is how f a r c a n w e g o without making t h e system actually un-~
workable o r practicality unworkable f o r t h e vast majority
of c o u n t r y b a n k s

o f t h e country, b e c a u s e I

think t h e d i s -

counting o f t h e s e five, t e n , f i f t y : and o n e h u n d r e d d o l l a r

notes i s i n itself o n e o f the great crawbacks t o t h e funct-

foning o f this System i n the minds o f the public.
Mr. Millor.

W o u l d y o u say, i n the light o f t h e evi-

denes i n 1920 a n d 1921, t h a t t h e banks o f the country found
it a

good d e a l o f trouble

t o g e t credit f r o m t h e F e d e r a l

Reserve S y s t e m ?
Mr. H e a t h .

H o w i s that?

Mr. Miller. I

addressed t h e question t o y o u because

ae

L

5

you w e r e t h e l a s t speaker. I

5

s a y i n t h e l i g h t o f t h e evidene:

in 1 9 8 0 a n d 1 9 2 1 w o u l d y o u g a y i t w a s d i f f i c u l t f o r m o m b e r

banks t o get credit from t h e Federal Reserve System?
you s a y w e n e e d t o l o o s e n t h i n g s

Governor Seays
mo means. I

up a

Would

bit?

I f I may answer that, I

would s a y b y

should s a y that t h e oase w i t h which t h e y could

obta*n credit led them t o go much further than they should

have gone. I

do not think, Dr. Miller, i t is in the

mind o f anybody that this proposal i s made because o f the
present practive o f the Federal Reserve Banks t o renew


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

the 1 5 - d a y p a p e r f r o m t i n e t o timo.
must d e e p e r t h a r that.

T r e basic reason i s

I t lies i n t h e commercial practice

which h a s existed f o r a long time a n d which will still exist a n d w h i c h w e c a n n o t u n d e r t a k e

t o alter a n d cannot alter

if we did undertake t o do so.
Mr. Miller.
paper?

W h y n o t loave i t A s i t i s n o w a n d invlude Govern-

ment bonis?
lateral

W h y have t h e loan restricted t o eligible

W h y n o t widenit

s o a s t o include o t h e r c o l -

o f the kind that will g i v e rise t o t h e type o f loan

that has been called t h o Lombard loan?

W h y restrict i t

if the security i s good?
Governor Seaye I

believe t h a t would b e a very severe


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

SL

blow t o the resources o f the Federal Reserve banks.
Mr, M i l l e r .

W h y go?

Govemmor Seaye Although i t has been stated that i n
commercial p r a c t i c e

i n the country banks there i s n o s u c h

I
thing a s really gelf~liquidating paper, nevertheless

be-

paper
Lieve w e should very jealously guard t h e standard o f
which t h o Federal reserve banks take. I

think that defini-

ought
tions o f a n d rulings w i t h respect t o oligible paper
to b e kept a t the very highest standard,

Mre Miller. W o u l d n ' t you say i t was when your member
bank's n o t s i s a c c o m p a n i e d

b y G o v e r n m e n t b o n d s a s collateral?

Governor Seay. Perfectly so.
Mr. M i l l e r .

T h e n what i g t h e objection

t o it?

Governor Seaye ‘ T h e objection t o it I think was pretty
j u s t about
well stated b y Governor Harding, a n d h e expressed
what i g i n the minds o f the members present.

W e believe,

necessary t o
I think, t h a t a n y member bank which finds i t
s h o u l d sell
continuously b o r r o w a g a i n s t G o v e r n m e n t bonds,
those bonds.

W h a t i s t n e reason f o r holding them? R e c e n t l y

banker f r o m
we received a visit a t our bank f r o m a country
potatoes.
the E a s t e r Shore.who h a d h a d a bad year i n

His

they had been
pank held $125,000 i n Government bonds which
holding f o r several years.

H e h a d h a d a bad season a n d

L57
3a
naturally asked

he wanted t o borrow $250,000 f r o m us. I

him w h y h e d i d n o t s e l l h i s G o v e r n m e n t bonds.

"Thig is, w e think, a temporary matter.

H

e said,

W e may have

occasion t o borrow f r o m y o u this year, b u t next year w e
-pelieve o u r deposits w i l l come back t o what t h e y wore,

and we will then be looking around for investment and w e
will probably have t o g o into the market and buy bonds,
they might b e higher than they are now, a n d I would like

to hold those bonds."

W e do not think the banks should be

-encouraged t e continuously borrow against Government se~


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

vurities.
Mr. Millor.

W h a t would y o u s a y about their con-

tinuously borrowing against their ninety d a y notes secured

by eligible collateral?
Governor Seay.

perrowing, e x c e p t
Sprague.

I

t i g not, I

would say, c o n t i n u o u s

i n certain cases a s cited b y Professor

W e know i n country banks,

i n dealing with their

customers f o r s e a s o n a l p u r p o s e s t h e t t h e y t a k e p a p e r f o r

sixty o r ninety days knowing peffectly woll that t h e y will
have t o renew i t perhaps thirty t o ninety days longer.

W e

might s a y i t i s the character c f the paper.
Mr. H a m l i n .

I

f y o u were t o make a

loan a n d h a d t h e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

32
paper,
option o f taking a ninety d a y note o r rediscounting t h e
prefer?
agsuming that t h e l a w was changed, w h i c h would y o u
would prefer t h e note outright.

Governor Seay. I
Mr, Hamline
yank w i l l i n s i s t

I s not that t h e point, t h a t every reserve

t h e diso n t h e ninety d a y noto rather t h a n

against
count oporation because t h a t will b e a direct claim
other i s merely
the bank, a n d a better claim, whereas t h e

a contingent Liability? W o n ' t that tend to wipe out the
p u t i n place
rediscounts a n d havs t h e notes o f member banks
thereof?
Governor Seaye

W e d o not think that. i

a m speaking

with t h e bank
now from t h e viewpoint o f possible aifficulty
some points o n
and a n eventual roceivership, t h a t tiere a r e
a n d the
which i t i s advantageous t o hold t h o collateral
notes

o f t h e b a n k also.

T h a t i s not t h e point o f view

from w h i c h w e a p p r o a c h e d i t e

Mr. Miller.

F r o m what Governor W e l l h o m s a i d I

t h e notes rather t h a n
guspected t h a t h e w o u l d a l w a y s w a n t

the discount collateral.

Governor Wellborn.

W e frequently suggest that t o

a n d w e usually
the bank when w e see t h e bank i n difficulty,

get a note t o cover all o f their transactionse


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

L59

Mr. Miller.

W o u l d i t not be changing the whole

spirit o f the Federal Reserve System t o lend i t t o banks
on t h e i r n o t e s t a t h e r t h a n t o d i s c o u n t t h e i r paper?

Governor Seay, P o s g i b l y i t might invade t h e theory
upon w h i c h w e s t a r t e d o u r operations. I

would prefer t h e clean discounted’ bill.

am sure o u r bank

H o w e v e r t h e facts

nave been sufficiently described e n d there i s n o use o f m y

describing them agaite
Mr. Miller.

I t ig a condition and not a theory.

Y o u s a y when y o u advance t h e rate t h e

member banks suffer f r o m inability t o g e t credit when t h e y
want i t f r o m t h e Federa] R e s e r v o B a n k s ?

Govemor Seay>
Dr. Miller,

N o t from inability t o get credit,

i n the aggregate, b u t taney d o complain o f the

method b y which w e grant that
Mr. Miller.

B u t they would probably complain w h e n

you made these notes sixty t o niety days, s e c u r e d b y
eligibte collateral, w i t h Government bouds discriminated

againgt.

Governur Seay. I

doubt very much indeed if there

would b e a n y c o m p l a i n t b e c a u s e
Mr. M i l l e r , I

o f t h e difference.

think v o u w i l l h a v e a

surprise c o n ~

ing t o y o u then, i f tne amendment proposed h e r e goes


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

54
through.
Governor Seay.

I l feel t h a t t h e r e w o u l d b e n o i n -

superablo a@hjection t o making i t both.
Governor Crissingere I
Mr. Miller.

did not understand thet.

I a m referring t o Governor Seay's c o

ninety
remarks t h a t h e would s e e n o objection t o sixty o r
day notes secured b y Government's.

Govern: SeBy «: N a insuperable objection.
Mr. Millor.
has been reached,

W h y should w e object, o n c e that gtage
t o permitting t h e rediscount a t a Federal

Reserve B a n k o f n o t e s

bank secured b y stocks a n d

of a

ponds o f unquestionable value a s collateral? I
are a l l m o r e o r l e s s i n a

TOR me.

w i l l admit I

think w e
am - ~ a g

to
to just w h y t h e Federal A c t i n its original form, t r i e d
t o what
tie aown t h e investments o f Fedsral Reserve Banks

we call gelf~liquidating paper. I

fancy that Professor

Sprague would b e i n a s good a position a s a n y one t o give
ug a

o t h a t question,
r e a l l y i n f o r m a tive a n s w e r n

that is

to say, whether o r not i n his judgment t h e restriction
in t h e Act was o r was n o t a wise one.
often c r o s s e d

T h o question h a s

m y mind a s t o just w h y t h e Federal Reserve

Limited
banks were restricted i n t h e original A c t t o a very
class o f b a n k i n v e s t m e n t s ?


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Mr. Sprague. I

have answered t h a t i n the beginning

of m y remarks this morning, t h a t i s t o say, t h a t i t was a
more o r l e s s a t a r i o h i m L t a t i o n o f t h e b u s i n e s s
BHuropean c e n t r a l banks.

I

o f the

n t h e second place i t h a d a

cor-

tgin s o c i a l r e a s o n i21 t h a t i t w o u l d r e l a t e t h e b u s i n e s s
the R e s e r v e b a n k s

of

t o t h e k i n d o f rusiness t h a t a l l t h e b a n k s

were p r e s u m a b l y doing,

w h

i

f t h e y h a d opened i t u p

stocks a n d b o n d s m u c h m o r e w o u l d h a v e b e o n h e a r d a b o u t

Wall Street i n 1913, w h e n t h e A c t was passed through

Now a s regards t h e effect o f opening u p t h e discount
business o f the reserve banks t o stocks a n d bonds satisfac-~
torily secured,

m y a n s w e r w o u l d b e this:

T h a t t h e limita-

tion o n e l i g i b l e p a p e r d o e s h a v e s o m e i n f l i e n c e

o n the

aggregate amount o f demands v h a t might b e made u p o n t h e regerve b a n k f o r credit;

n o t v e r y much, b e c a u s e t h e r e a r e

and
pillions i n eligible paper scattered through t h e banks,
since t h e Federal Reserve A c t was passed w o have orea ted
billions

o f G o v e r n m e n t s e c u r i t i e s w h i c h a r e n o w eligible.

Wnen i t comes t o making specific loans,

i n m y judgment t h e

paper that Mr. Martin describes, t h e t e n dollar dotes, a n d

goon, represent a positive defect i n the System.

W e d o not


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

56

L62
know w h e t h e r t h e bankvuis p u t t i n g u p s o o m a n y o f t h o s e p e r =

fectly g o o d t e n dellar notes a n d other notes o f that kind.
If t h e b a n k i s p u t t i n g u p a

moderate a m o u n t

i n trade e x -

change, well and good; b u t i f it is putting u p all o f its
good e l i g i b l e paper,
inclined

i t m a y b e c o m e o v e r extended.

t o think t h a t tnis proposition

S

c I

am

i s a good o n e because

it would lead t o more attention being given t o t h e situation
in tne borrowing banks, a n d perhaps a little loss attontion
to the particular paper that i s offered.

I t is the agere~

gate amount that i s loanead b y t h e Federal Reserve Banks a s

a whole that affects the situation;

i t is the agsregate

amount t h a t y o u loan i n a particular bank that affects t h a t
bank w i t h r e f e r e n c e

t o i t s depositors.

attention t o paper t o m y mind i s like a
coat t o b u y whiskey.

P a y i n g exclusive

man pawning h i s over-~

Y o u d o n o t g e t anywhere. I

would

rather, from the point o f view o f the soundness o f the
System, have you take $10,000 from some bank based o n al~
most anything than t o take $20,000 f r o m a bank based wholly
and absolutely o n good oligible paper.

I f you h a d stocks

and bonds s o m e b a n k s w o u l d p e r h a p s b o r r o w more, b u t o n t h e

other hand i t might have t h e effect,

i n some cases, o f

leading banks that borrow t o have outside investment.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

37

163

I c a n c o n c e i v e t h a t t h e b o r r o w i n g b a n k s ought,

i f possible,

to have g o m e outside s t u f f because i f they haven't a n y out-

gide stuff vhey are i n grave danger o f becoming over-extended
unlegs their borrowings are very clearly confined within
safe, seasonal Limits.

T h o s e things I

do nct think y o u

heve i n mind when y o u are paying exclusive attention t o
the p a r t i c u l a r p i e c e s o f p a p e r t h a * a r e p u t up.

Governor Grissinger. I s n ' t it a fact that there are
communities which d o not usa the faciiities o f the Federal
o f these
Reserve R a n k f o r t h e v e r y r e a s o n t h a t t h e y t a k e a l l

bonds u p t o some c i t y bank,

d o tnueir porrowing through t h e

city bank, t h e y become the basis o f the credit, a n d tne
redisccunt=
Federal Reserve System gets n o benefit f r o m t h o
ing o f t h e loan direct.
community w h e r e I

I s not that a.fact?

supposs t h e r e i g n o t a

. 1 know e f 2

bank = ~ a n d t h e y

are all g o o d bauks = - that rediscount w i t h t h e Federal R e serve b a n k ;

b u t t h e y d o borrow;

t h e y t a k e t h e i r bonds,

b u t instead o f taking t h e m t o t h e Federal Reserve B a n k
they take t h e m u p t o some b i g bank i n one o f the cities i n
which t h o y h a v e t h e i r c o r r e s p o n d e n t s a n d l e a v e t h e m a s

collateral f o r the loans, a n d they ultimately g e t into t h e

Federal Reserve sank through the medium o f the borrowing
bank.

n a t i s a fact, i s i t not?

164
I t is a fact t o some extent, a n d i t

Governor Sea ye

our member
is also a fact that w e accommodate one~third o f


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

accustombanks every year and the balance o f them are not
ed t o borrowinge

Governor Talley,

I n the interest o f progress, i f I

may b e permitted t o d o so. I

will make a motion. I

first

this subject.
want t o refer t o the parliamentary phase o f
illuminating, particuI think t h e discussion h a s been v e r y
given t h e Members
larly s o i n view o f t n e fact t h a t i t has
w h o voted against
of the Board opportunity t o hear those
this proposal.

a pro=
I + seems t o m e that w o are debating

posal t h a t h a s b e e n a c t e d u p o n b e f o r e

b y both t h e Gonference

the r e a l q u e s
of Governors a n d the Conference o f Agents, a n d
tion t h a t t h o J o i n t C o n f e r e n c e

i s now addressing itself

to

days o r ninety
is w h e t h e r t n e o x t e n s i o n s h a l l b e s i x t y
dayse T

voted i n t h e Governors!

although personally,

Conference

t o s i x t y days,

s o far a S m y district i s concemed,

would prefer the ninety day extension.

[I

N o w let me say t o

o f the authority
those w h o m a y b e opposed t o t h e oxtension
day
for application b y a member bank t o borrow o n a ninety
c u t two holes i n the door,
note, t h a t i t i s not necessary t o

one for the big cat and one for the little cat.

Y o u can

L65
mehhe i t ninety days a n d then a n y bank that does n o t wish


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

to make advances t o member banks f o r a s long a s ninety
Gays c a n m a k e t h e m f o r a n y t i m e w i t h i n n i n e t y days.

cour section o f the country,

I n

a S Governor Strong brought

and it
out, i t i s e question o f extending seasonal credit,
would require a s Jong a s ninety days,

i n m y judgment,

if

thig proposition h a s a n y merit F a ae
Now, Mr. Chairman, I

would move, therefore, t h a t i t

amended
ig the sense o f t h e Joint Conference, t h a t t h e Act b e
to p e r m i t F e d e r a l h e s e r v e B a n k s t o m a k e a d v a a c e s
member b a n k s a g a i n s t b i l l s p a y a b l e

t o their

o f t h e m e m b e r banks, w h e n

of
secured b y oligiblo paper equal t o the f a c o a n d maount
the b i l l s p a y a b l e f o r a
Governor Seay.

m a x i m u m p e r i o d o f n i n e t y days.
I l offer a

substitute m o t i o n t h a t a

prefer
vote b e t a k e n i n t h i s C o n f e r e n c e a s t o w h e t h e r t h e y

sixty days t o ninety days. J

offerthat a s a substitute

motLone

Governor Crissinger.s
motion first. I

W e will take up the substitute

will a s k all o f those i n favor o f the

gixty d a y limitation t o stand up.

(Four members o f the Conference stood up)
Governor Crissingor.

A l l o f those i n favor o f the

ninety day limitation will please stand up.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

(Fifteen members of the Conference stood up.)
Governor Crissinger.

A p p a r e n t l y t h e ninety days

it b y eo big majority.
Mr, Mitchell.

o I

D

understand t h a t G o v e r n m e n t b o n d s

only b e accepted f o r fifteen days?
Governor Crissinger,

F i f t e e n days, according t o

reporte

Mow Mitchell.

D o e s that mean that you are going

digcriminate against t h e very best collateral t h a t tnere
in t h e w o r l d ?

I

certainly

f so I

a m oppesed

think i t ought t o include Government bonds a s well a s eligible p a p o r e

would second that motion.

Mr. Austin. I
Mr. McClure.

T

e r e a s o n o u r Canaference d e c i d e d

azainst Government s e c rities w a s because there i s a certain class o f scientists w h o believe t h a t t h e issue o f
currency should b e stopped against Government securities,
and i n view o f that criticism w e thought i t best t o leave
it-as i t ice
Go veraor c r i g s i n g e r .

T h a t i s t h e best reason t h a t

has b e e n g i v e n yet.

Governor YoUnge I

voted f o r that recommendation, b u t


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

L6Y

5
I have m y o m v i e w s

i n regard t o Government bondse

W o u l d

it b e fair t o put before t h e C o n f e r e m e t h e question o f
whether t h e n i n e t y d a y L i m i t s h o u l d b e e x t e n d e d t o G o v e r n ment b o n d s a l s o ?

Governor Crissinger.
Govermor Young.

A g well a s eligible paper?

Yese

Governor Crissinger,

W o will p u t that before t h e

t o go
Conference, whother t h e Conference w o u l d b e willing

days
on record i n favor of gratiting the extention t o ninety
paper.
with reference t o Government bonds a s well a s eligible
Governor Stronge

I f that i s done, I

want t o s a y that

who
it will b e regarded b y the world o f onlightened people

understand central banking a s the worst blow t o the soundness o f t h e F e d e r a l R e s e r v e S y s t e m t h a t i t h a s y e t received.

Mr, Hoxton.

T f wnat i s done?

Govermor Strong.’
collateral

T o include Government bonds a s

t o b e p l a c e d b o n i n d t h e c u r r e n c y o f t h i s eouniry,

It igs unthinkable.
Governor Grissinger. I

will:ask a l l o f those i n favor

of that motion t o stand up.
Governor McDougal. I
Govermor Crissinger.

would like t o have i t restated.
T h e motion i s all o f those i n


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

favor o f using both eligible paper a n d Government bonds
as c o l l a t e r a l f o r n i n e t y d a y notes.

(Four members o f the Conference stood up.}

Governor Grissinger.
{fThereupon,

T h e motion is lost.

t n e Conference adjourned

a t 1.10 o'clock

until £630 o'clock o f the same day.}

Governor Orissinger.

A s I

understand i t Mr.Mitchell

is ready t o make t h e veport o f the committee appointed o n
the American Railway Association matter submitted b y
Anderson a n d Mr. C o n n e

Mr. Mitchell.

M r . Chairman a n d gentlemon, t h e r e ~

port o f the Gomaittee i s a s follows:
e Gommittee a p p o i n t e d

t o prepare a

resoluti

i

n

connection w i t h t h e r e q u e s t o f Hon. S i d n e y Anderson, P r e s i a dent o f t h e Millers N a t i o n a l F e d e r a t i o n a n d Mr. D o n a l d D .
Conn,

Manager

o f t h e American Railway ASsociation

Service Division, t h a t a

Gar

closer cooperation between t h e

Federal Reserve banks a n d member banks a n d t h e Regional
Advisory B o a r d s a c t i n g i n c o n n e c t i o n w i t n t h e A m e r i c a n
Railway A s s o c i a t i o n b e maintained;

y o u r committoe b e g s


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

to suggest the following resolution:

I t is the sense of the Con-

"RH I T RESOLVED THAT:

feronce t h a t i t w o u l d b o o f mutual b o n e f i t a n d d i s t i n c t l y
in t h e p u b l i c i n t e r e s t

i f the Federal reserve banks

c o

operate i n such manner a s m a y b e appropr.a t e i n the
efforts o f the Regioral Advisory Boards i n pringing together
the representatives o f shippers, t h e railroads a n d other
economic a n d industrial agencics w i t h a view o f creating
a closer relationship a n d cooperation, thereby penefitting
the transportation facilities o f the country a n d giving
having
acrioulture, industry a n d commorce t h e penofit o f
the q u i c k e s t p o s s i b l e s y s t e m o f d i s t r i b u t i o n

al products, manufactures, etc.,

o f agricultur-

\

t o t n o consumer.

(Sed) J. Re Mitchell, Chairman,
Plerre Jay;

Geo. J. Seays “
TImove t h e adoption o f the report.
Govornor Young.
(The m o t i o n h a v i n g b e e n d u l y s

Governor Crissinger. I
Ghief

econded,

w a s carried.)

have sent for Mr. Moran,

o f t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s Secrot. S e r v i c e b e c a u s e t ; tiink

we had better take u p the question o f protection a t this


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

momen te I

think e v e r y b o d y w i l l b e i n t e r e s t e d

i n it.

I t was p u t o n the program a t the

Governor Strong.

not
suggestion o f t h o Feceral Reserve Board, b u t w o were
whether
quito sure just what w a s indicated b y t h e suggestion,
thero w a s some Special thing i n the minds o f the Board.
Governor Orissinger.

M r . M o r a n i s here, a n d I take

pleasure i n introducing h i m t o you gontlomen.
Governor Stronge

W e nad a

discussion o f the general

tho
theory and practice i n each Federal Reserve Bank i n
matter

o f protection,

b u t all t h e reservc banks apparently

whatever i s
were v e r y alert d n d alive t o t h o need f o r doing
about
nocessary, a n d that quite largely t h e y were following
tho same plans i n their operations. I

think t h o genoral

a
w tnat t h e
conclusion t o b e drawn from t n e d i s c u s s i o n s
banks were pretty adoquately protected b y their protection

forcee

O f course w o recognizo that there are certain

disingido p r o t e c t i o n s r e q u i r e d b e s i d e s t h o s e w h i c h w e r e
cussed.

Governor OCrissinger. I

have asked Mr. M o r a n t o

talk a few moments awout t h e various possibilities o f the
question a n d Mr, Moran will state h i s proposition t o you.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

6Ra
Mr, Moran.

anything I

Gentlemen, I

do not know that there i s

can s a y t o y o u that will contribute t o better

protection. C e r t a i n l y there isn't anything i n a general
way that I
needs.

could s a y t o y o u that would f i t your individual

E v e r y m a n h a s h i s o w n problem, b u t certainly there

ig great need f o r the exervise o f every precaution possible
today.

I n all m y experienco w i t h criminal activities I

nover k n o w n a

situation

t o o x i s t a s d o e s e x i s t today.

have

Y o u

have o n l y t o pick u p t h o papors e v e r y d a y practically t o
read o f some most daring noldup.
forecast s u c h a

thing a s h a p p e n e d

W h o , f o r instance, w o u l d
i n Buffalo t h e o t h e r d a y - -

an armored c a r attacked right o u t whore hundreds o f people
were, o r a caso last night about which I road, j u s t outside

of Pittsburgh.
is a n instances

O f course I blame the bank for that, but i t
H e r e w a s a man walking along wito a grip,

an automobile drives up, t w o m e n jump o u t and grab him,
knock h i m over t h e head a n d take t h e grip.

I t contained
.

in
,
$75,000 o r thereabouts o f the bank's money which h e was

taking t o Pittsburgh.

T h o s e a r e only a couple o f instances

of what i s occurring overy day.

I think those having charge o f institution housing
large amounts o f money, wwhere money i s being transferred

bt

from thoso institutions t o other places o r being brought
in
from other places t o them, cannot u s e t c o much care


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

surrounding that money W

p r o t e c t i v e measures.

W e can-

o f the
wot t o save o u r lives determine w h a t i s i n the mind
criminal, b u t here i s a suggestion:
Suppose y o u f o r the moment t c o k t h e place o f the
a n instiman w h o contemplates d o i n g o n e o f these acts i n
would
tution o r o n the outside; f i g u r e o u t jugt what y o u
do t o r o b t h a t p l a c e o r t o h o l d i t up;

u s e e v e r y argument,

go
every thought y o u c a n bring t o pear o n i t and then

about adopiing such measures a s will preve

your various departments d o t h e same thing;
to y o u and tell y o u h o w they could r o b their o m d epartmont
or bureau,

a n d t h e n adopt measures

that very thing.

t o prevent t

T h e r e igs always o n e element

my mind, enters more strongly a s a protective measure t h a n

anything else, and that i s the unknown t o the criminal.
That is, i f you have occasion
or gmall amounts,

t e a n s f e r moneys i n large

i t makes n o difference, t h e fewer people

who know that t h a t i s i n contomplation, a n d t h e f o w people
that k n o w w h e n i v i s g o i n g t n b e accomplished,

t h e b o ttor


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

ees

protoction y o u surround yourscol?’ with,

O f course y o u cannot

guard e n t i r e l y a g a i n s t i n s i d e i n f o r m a t i o a ,

the greatest care, I

Y o u exercise

a m sure, i n the selection o f the people

you trust t o d o certain things i n your institutions;

but

we all know that men g o wrong, a n d there are o r hare been a
number o f these holdups t h a t I

a m sure were t h e result o f

inside information, because t h e y could not guess a t just
what m o m e n t

y o u were

t o make a

c e r t a i n HMOVe.

T a k e the

am just a s well satis-

Denver Mint robbery, f o r instance, I

fied i n m y own mind that that was ingide information, through
the v e r y nature o f the holdup, w h i c h influenced those m e n

O f course hore

to come there, a s I can be o f anything.

you have institutions t o which are being brought valuable
securities e v e r y day. '

Is i t n o t possible

t o vary the time

and t h e method o f handling t h e m rather than t o have a
method o f handling, a
tecting yourself.

days o r a month,

stated time?

T h a t 1 8 one w a y o f pro-=

T h e s o people will t a k e a

i f necessary,

holdup.

week,

o r ten

t o advise themselves a s t o

what goes o n daily i n a n institution
+ransfer o f valuables,

routine

i

n regard t o t h e

i n order that they m a y stage a

I f they find that y o u regularly handle these

Securities t h e n t h e y know just what t o d o t o hold y o u up.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

74:
If i t i s d o n e i r r o g u l a r l y t h a t n e c e s s i t a t e s a

man s t i c k i n g

around a n d t h o

the neighborhood are groater t
do n o t know

time that t h e transfer i s going t o b e made. I
just when i t was, b u t sometime a g o w e made a
datferent F e d e r a l

Reserve Banks

survey o f the

a n d different institutions

i n order t o sugsest
fase(6.

for the housing o f government funds,

These

protective measures a n d make a roport o n tne matter.
reports w e r e m a d s a n d t h e r e w e r e a

submitted b y the agonts. I

numbor o f r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s

know that some o f those recondo not know whether a l l

meniations h a v e been adopted, b u t I
of thom have. I
those r e p o r t s
us d o i t ,

think i t might b e well t o

t o e a c h o f you,

ger

o r i f you would care t o have

w e can make another survey

a t this time.

O u r

agents are available a t all times for you gentlomon for advice, seggestion o r assistance; I

shall b e very glad t o

direct a n y o n e o f t h e m t o g o t o y o u r b a n k a n d m a k e a
of i t a n d s u g g e s t

survey

t o y o u what might occur t o h i m a s better

p rotection f o r y o u r p r o p e r t y a n d y o u r pérsonnel. I

do not

moment t h a t y o u g h o u l d o v e r l o o k t h e f a c t
there i g d a n g e r a t a l l t i m e s o f s o m e t h i n g b e i n g a t t e m p t e d

in these times.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

eo

Governor Crissingor.

I f there a r e a n y questions t h a t

you would like t o ask Mr. M o r a n h e would b e glad t o answer
any o f them.

I f n o t w e a r e v e r y m u c h o b l i g e d t o you, M r .

Moran
(Mr. M o r a n t h e r e u p o n r e t i r e d f r o m t h e C o n f e r e n c e

hairman. ‘The agents' program suggosts a discussion o f t h e r e p o r t o f t h e C o m m i t t e e

not know whether y o u want t o take t h a t u p o r not.
talked about reserves a

good deal.

L e d o

o n reserves.

W e have

I s there anything further

to b e said about it?

Mr. Mitchell. 1

would like t o ask i f we have finish-

ed the subject t h a t w e wore discussing before lunch?
Governor Crissinger.
Mr. Mitchell. I

Yes, I

think w e have.

thought there w a s a motion t h a t

was n o t acted on?
Governor Orissingoers.
Mr. Mitchell.

T h a t motion w a s carried.

T a t motion w a s carried extending

the time t o 9 0 days?
Governor Orissingers.

Y e s , gecured b y oligible

paper b u t l e a v i n g i t a s i t i s ,

1 5 d a y s o n notes s e c u r e d


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

by government securities.
The next subject i s t h e report o f the C o m m i t t e e o n
T h a t w a s suggested

Public Relations.
ference.

f o r t h e Joint Con-

W h a t h a v e y o u o n that?

Mr, Perrine

M r . J a y will maze the report o f that

Somnmittes e
Mr, Jaye

\
M r . Chairman a n d gentlemen, I

have t h e

port o f that Committee, w h i c h t h e Agents sugse sted suggested
ghould b e p r e s e n t e d b e f o r e t h e J o i n t G o n f e r o n c e r a t h

before o u r Coforence o n l y becatse i t was thought t h a t t h e
Governors w e r e a s m u c h interested, p o s s i b l y ,

a s w e were,

in the subject, a n d also because, w i t h respect t o the hand-

ling o f baak relation work i n four o r five o f the banks i t
ig under t h e Governors a n d n n t under t h e Agents. I
what I

have

have to. s a y a S C h a i r m a n o f t h i s C o m m i t t e e

rathor than making a presentation orally, because t h e report
good many tables a n d figures. I

yontains a

ask i f c o p i o s
each M e m b e r

would like t o

o f these reports m a y n o t b e distributed

o f t h e Conference

to

s o that each one m a y follow

along and look a t these tables when I refer t o them, because
otherwise
tained

i t i s almost impossible

i n t h e tables.

t o grasp t h e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

uae
In the next place I

woula like t o oxplain that tnis

report c o v e r s t w o t o p i c s which, w h i l e t h e y a r e allied, a r o ,

however, quite separate.

O n e i s "rclations with banks"

and t h e othor i s "relations w i t h t h e public".
The <irst part o f the report h a s t o d o with relations
with banks e n d bankers v i s i t i n g reserve banks.
The particular development o f 1925 i n bank relations
work h a s been growth i n the tondency o f reserve panks.
The Boston b a n k has just heid i t s third stockholders’ mect-=

ing, attended b y about 202 out o f its 419 member banks.
Last spring t h o Richmond bank inaugurated t h e same plan, a n d
A

had p r e s e n t 1 6 0 m o m b e r s o u t o f a total o f 606.

t tne

opening o f the St. Louis Bank o n June 1 7 the St. Louis
Bankers C l u b invited t h e officers o f all t h e district
member banks t o come t o St. Louis a n d visit t h e Reserve
About 4 0 0 attended t h e reception.
winter a n d spring o f 1925 t h e N e w k
groups

o f officers

bank f o r lunch,

zf
x

D u r i n g the
invited small

o f member a n d non-member banks

o r i n s p e c t i o nh o f t eh e b u i nl d i n g

)

t o the

and fora

discussion o f Foderal Reserve operations a n d problems o f
mutual i n t e r e s t ;

9 7 3 officers

banks attonded these moetings.

o f member a n d non-member

T h e total number o f


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

L78
mombors i n the district i o

F o l l o w i n g t h e meetings

an individual invitation t o visit t h e reserve bank w h o n i n
New York was sent t o each director o f the banks which were
represented a t these meetings, together with a small
pamphlot about t h e systeme

I t i s reported t h a t relatively

few directors h a v e visited t h e bank thus far, b u t t h a t
generally speaking

t h e directors h a v e greatly appreciated

the i n v i t a t i o n .
ar

The Committee understands t h a t those banks which
have thus entertained their members feel that seeing t h e
bank i n oporation i s a most valuablo contribution towards
a botter understanding o f its functioning a n d services.
Visiting banks through bank relations men. S i n c e
January, 1922, t h e resorve banks have reported e a c h month
tn the Gleveland Bank t h e number o f visits made, a n d these
reports have been compiled a n d sent t o the Board a n d t o each
Federal Reserve Agent.

T h e total visits mace have been;

In 1922@,
in 1923,
In 1924

In 1926,

1 3 0 0 4 (threes months estimated)

In most districts t h e traveling m e n call o n non-member banks


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

L79

where there

in vpl a c e s

i s a

B u t

membor.

visits t o non-members a r e n o t made. c

i n other districts

following table

shows t h e estimated visits made i n 1925 b y traveling m e n
and b r a n c h m a n a g e r s a n d t h e r o l a t i o n w h i c h s u c h v i s i t s b e a r
to t h e t o t a l n u m b e r o f banks

i n t h e district.

ZSTIMATZD N U M B D R O F VISITS
MEN I N 1 9

B Y B A N RaLATIONS

Be ston
New Y o r k
Sleveland

Philadelpnia
Chicago
St. Louis
Dallas
San F r a n c i s c o

Richmond
Kansag C i t y
Atlanta
Minneapolis.

0

The above table gives t h e number o f visits
quite apparent f r o m the percentage column t h a t i n
of tho Boston Bank t h e y visited every bank i n the district


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

one a n d o n e - t h i r d times.

I

n N e w York, m o m p e r a n d n o n - m e m b e r

b a n k once, a n d s o o n down
once, e n d Cleveland visi e v e r y

aovernor N o r r i s e

number
T h a t means v i s i t e d t h e total

a n d non-member?
qf banks i n the district, member
Mr. J a y e

T h o t o t a l n u m b o r o f banks

i n t h o district.

figuress
Two things a r e obvious f r o m t h e
w o r k o f bank relations
Li T h a t i n r e c e n t y e a b s t h e

«
departments h a s been expending
carricd o n i n the
2. T h a t i t i s very unequally
different digtricts.
t h e value o f the work
Your C o m m i t t e e b e l i e v e s t h a t

i t s feeling that i t should
is sufficiently proved t o justify
now b e u n d e r t a k e n

uniform basis.

and on a
i n a l l o f t h e districts

more

on
T w o o f the res3rcve banks represented

i n rank relations
your Jommittee h a v e n a d long experience
greatest importance i n
work a n d beliove i t t o b e o f the
relations w i t h t h e banks i n
maintaining human a n d friendly
the district.
t h e system i s that
Tie feoling o f many banks toward
a n d lacking i n human
it i s bureaucratic, f u l l o f red tape,
relations.

will d e n y that
W o candid reserve bank officer


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

LB.

these tondencios against whichhis organization constantly has t o struggle.

B u t , provided t h e reserve bank,

itself, i s carnestly endeavoring t o oliminate Lheso shortcomings,

n o agency h a s proved s o effective i n eliminating

hom from t h o minds o f its membors a s t h e visits o f the
hank r e l a t i o n s mon.

N o t o n l y a r e h u m a n c o n t a c t s main-=

tained through these visits

t h e y bring about a n under-

standing o f our services and how t o use them, they discover a n d straighten o u t ali kinds o f misunderstandings
that arise through o u r daily transactions w i t h member
banks, a n d they bring t o our crecit filesa K i n G
mation r e g <a r di i ne g , m e m b e r b a n k sersonrel,

O r e

l o c a l conditions

3

P

and when desired, local eredits, w h i c a w e c a n obtain i n n o

Kistrict differences.

A s t h e Committec h a s indicated

the organization o f bank relations w o r k varies greatly i n
he different districts.

I n some, i t i s directed b y the

Ghairman, i n others = ~ at least four = ~ i t is directed b y
loss

the Governor.

I n some i t i s the primary work o f t h e junior

officer supervising it, i n others i t i s merely a socondary
consideration.

I

n some, non~member banks a r e visited,

othorgs non-member banks a r e not visited.

in

I n some, t h e visits


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

EeBier

aro o f a p u r e l y f r i e n d l y a n d c o n s t r u c t i v e n a t u r e ,
hey a r e s o m e t i m e s

of a

d i s c i p l i n a r y nature.

i n others

T h e Committee
to

will c o m m e n t b r i e f l y a n d e x p r e s s i t s v i e w s witan r e g a r d

coach o f these variations.
If the work i s well done, i t does n o t make mucn
enco w h e t h e r i t i s u n d e r t h e C h a i r m a n
Guecutive Committees’

Congerences

o r t h e Governors.

o f t h e Governors!

a n d t h e Chairmen's

i n 1915 however, definitely allocatsd t h e topic
to

MRelationg w i t h Banks” a n d I R e l a t i o n s w i t h t h e Public"
the G h a i r m a n .

T h e r e a r e also t w o reasons

w h y bank relae
Vv

tions work might well b e undertaken b y t h e Chairman;
Ll.

w e igs n o t s o b u s y w i t h b a n k o p e r a t i o n s

a s the

Governor;

One o f t h e p r i m a r y p u r p o s e s
ascertain

i f all i s going well between

o f t h e visits

is to

t h e member banks

and

the r e s e r v e b a n k .
Tie m i s u n d e r s t a n d i n g s

which arise often come from

difficulties w i t h t h e operating staff o f the bank.
organization matter, therefore, i

A S an

s e m g a s thousht t h e

at b e Likened t o a periodical audit o f t h e relations oxisting between t h e Reserve Bank a n d i t s momber banks.
he Committee believes i t igs most important that the


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

185
pank rolations w o r k should b e under t h e supervision o f a n
officer, preferably o n e n o t engaged i n bank oporations, w h o
T h e work o f the

can givo t h e work his primary attention.
traveling men,

i s arduous,

i f conscientiously dono,

tain thoir spirit a n d enthusiasm requires intelligent supe
T h i s cannot b e given b y

vision a n d constent attention.

an officer engrossed i n operating details w h o regards bank
relations w o r k a s h i s s e c o n d a r y interest.

The Committee believes i t vory important t o visit
non-member banks whemevsr practicable.
relations w i t h m o s t &
gend u s d r a f t s

them.

o r curroncy

many o f them d o not relish.

W e h a v e daily

W e send t h e m checks a n d they
i n paymont.

T h i s rolationship

T h e y have opinions about t h e

Reserve S y s t e m w n i c h t h o y expreys f

considerably moro ignorant about i t than t h o nembers.

W e

should visit t h e m a s a n oxpression o f our appreciation o f
their cooperation i n collection matters,

a s a n evidence o f

our desire t o maintain friondly relations w i t h them, a n d a s
an o p p o r t u n i t y

t o i n f o r m t h e m a b o u t t h e System.

T h e Com-

mittee suggests t h a t these visits should n o t b e t e urgo
,

mombership

o r e v e n t o discuss i t . N e v e r t n e l o s s ,

nation t o w a r d s m e m b e r s h i p m a y o f t e n b e d i s c o v e r e d
¢

a n inclii n vigit-

ing non-member banks, j u s t a s inclination t o withdraw


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

may often b e discovered i n visiting member banks.
of t h e d i s t r i c t s t h e p r a c t i c e

I n most

i s for t n e traveling m a n t o

call o n non-member banks a t least i n places w h e r e there
are member banks.
The Gommittee feels t h a t sank relations m e n should
not b e u s e d t o c o n v e y d i s c i p l i n a r y m e S s a g e s

t o m e m b e r banks.

If a bank officer i s not sure, w h e n t h o traveling m a n enters.
his bank, w h e t h o r h e i s thore f o r f r i e n d l y o r f o r d i s c i -

plinary purposes, t n e Committee believes h i s usefulness

is greatly diminished.

T h e r e ghould b e n o doubt as t o

the welcome o f the travelingman whenevor h e calls.
Sommittee bpolieves d i s c i p l i n a r y a d m o n i t i o n

The

o r action s h o u l d

bo takon through some other medium.
The Committee a l s o desires t o speak o f two other
aspects

o f t h i s work:

Vigiting b y officors. 4

s

o

m

e districts a n

operating officer occasionally travels f o r a few days o r
a week with o n e o f the bank relations men, visiting member
and non-membor banks.

T h e Committes believes t h a t i f

every oporating officer o f a Reservo Bank, a s well a s sono
of the heads o f departments dealing directly with member
Le)


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

banks, c o u l d t h u s s p e n d a

fow days overy yoar o r two

vigiting out of town banks, great advantages would accruo.
Many r e s e r v e b a n k o f f i c e r s h a v e n o t h a d p r e v i o u s b a n k e x -

perience, a n d d o not understand country bank conditions
and psychology.

I f they could thus obtain first hand in-

formation a n d appreciation o f t h e point o f view a n d t h e
operating conditions o f member banks, t n e Committee feels

sure a more sympathetic relationship and understanding
would result. I n c i d e n t a l l y , m e m b e r banks greatly appreciate receiving s u c h visits.
Frequoney a n d costs.

T h e second point which t h e

Gommitteo wishes t o discuss i s the frequoncy o f visits.
Tt igs dDbvious from the foregoing figures t h a t t h e frequency
of visits varics greatly.
Least o n e v i s i t a

T h e Committeo feels t h a t a t

year should b e made t o every member b a n k

and t o a S many non-member banks a s practicable.

I t regards

one visit a s t h e minimum a n d t w o visits a s t h e goal t o b e
aimed a t i n o r d e r t o k e e p s a t i s f a c t o r y c o n t i n u i t y o f contact.

It a sgumes t h a t some discretion will b e used a s t o theso
banks which should b o visited more often than others.
viously, S u c h a program involves increased eosts.

Ob-

T h e Gom-~

mittoe, accordingly, presonts a s a starting point a condensed
analysis

o f t h e present s t a f f a n d expense o f bank relations

work taken from the Board's reports.

T h e figures for the first half

of 1925 have been multiplied b y two a s a n estimate for the current year:

eh
COST OF BANK RELATION DEPARTMENTS FOR 1925

(last 6 months estimated)
No.of N u m b e r o f
v
i
s
ite
&
Men
R
o
a
d
Total A d m i n i s t r a t i o n
N
o
n
m
a
de
Ex-ense
T
r
a
v
e
l
Office Expense
Expense &

-

of B x - Offi- Employ~ E x - FEmrloy- (Esti- M e m b e r M e m b e r
p e n s e e893 mated)

a e s

Function pense cers

oe9

9

Boston 7 , 1 8 8 1 6 8 % - ~
New York 4 0 , 1 0 4 14852e** .90

2 5 , 2 5 2

Philadelphia 13,680 4344 8

9 , 3 3 6

-

Cleveland 3 2 , 4 8 2 8124

2

Richmond 28,926 13962

1 4 , 9 6 4

Atlanta 8 , 2 5 4 3090

St. Louis 5 1 , 5 0 6

5

,

,

3

7

2

5

6

4

,

4

9

B a n k s

5

1 , 4 5 0
8

5

2

8

4
G Cart

1

é

7 0 6 5 S 1GE 3

Caisuge

4

8

b a n k s

2

0

6,4<+

Ninneapclis

Kansas City 7 , 1 5 ¢
Daliss
San Francisco
ee

e e

e

e

TOTAL 248,576 7556 7-35 9-80 172,990 31.94 13,804

quarter only.

* First
of bank conferences.
** New York also expended $12,429.19 for the special series
heretofore referred to.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Tong a b o v e t a b l o s h o w s t h e t o t a l o x p e n s e o f t h e F e d e r a l

Reserve Banks a t the present t i m e a n d i t s distribution among
different banks a n d also t h e number o f visits e s t i m t e d f o r
the y e a r a n d t h e t o t a l n u m b e r o f member a n d n o n ~ m e m b e r
banks

i n o a c h district.
These f i g u r e s s h o w h o w u n e v e n l y t h e c o s t i s n o w

distrbbuted among t h e banks.

T h e minimum costs n o w a r e

in the four districts o f Atlanta, Minneapolis, Kansas
Gity a n d S a n Francisco - - districts o f immense area.
Committee

i s n o t prepared

The

t o submit a n y accurate e s t i m t e

of the additional costs o f making o n e visit a year t o every
member b a n k a n d a
practicable,

visit

t o eas m a n y n o n - m e m b o r s

a s may be

b u t i t belicves t h i s w o u l d c e r t a i n l y i n v o l v e

an increase o f from $100,000 t o $150,000 per annum. ‘The
added c o s t d o e s n o t i n a n y w a y m a k e t h e Gommittes h e s i t a t e

in its recommenaation,

a s i t believes t h a t t h e System i s

missing a valuable element i n those districts where t h e

work i s not fully organized a t present.

T h o Committee

feels t h a t i n districts which a r e n o w fully organized
study m a y w e l l b e g i v e n t o methods

o f reducing traveling

and other expenses, b u t that n o attempt should b e made
to lower t h e grade o f men doing either t h e supervising

18%
he traveling.

T h e s e m e n represent t h e bank i n a n important

capacity a n d should b e men o f experience, character a n d
personality.

Membership cenanges.

T n e Committee feels that a t

this point i t may b e interesting t o present t h e following
analysis o f year t o year changes i n our membership, t a k e n
from t h e B o a r d ' s f i g u r e s .

T h e purpose

o f this analysis

is t o ghow:

le A c t i v e increases i n membership due t o organization o f new national banks, conversion o f non-member banks t o
national banks a n d admission o f state banks.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Be A c t i v e decreases i n memborship, d u e t o withdrawal

o f state banks a n d absorption

o f members

b y non-

members.

Se W o a t might b e termed passive decreases i n
membership, d u e t o susponsion o r liquidation o f membor
banks

o r the combination

o f one member

b a n k w i t h another.

ce

CHANGES IN FEDERAL RESERVE MEMBERSHIP
(January 1, 1919. to Juns 30, 1925)
1919 3 o g 0 . - 1 6 e t A g e r . £ 9 8 )

Total membership beginning
8,692 9 , 0 6 6

of y e a r .

ACTIVE
Increases
National Banks Organized
L
t
Conversion of nonmember banks 6 2
Admission of state banks
2 3 0
20

2
1
3
6

3
0
3
7

6
3
4
3

2

y
1

o
2

%

B u

Becreases

Absorption o f member banks

6

by nommember institutions
Withdrawal o f state banks 9

Total decreases
Total active increases

PASSIVE

Mecreases
Member banks suspended,
liquidated o r combined
with other members
Net final increase
or decrease


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

f

g
U

e

6 1 9

9,606

9

,

3

5

9


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

189

You will notico t h e above table covers s i x years.
ne figures f o r 1925 are n o t estimated f o r the year, b u t
present only the first s i x months.
It i s guggestod b y the Committee t h a t i t would b e
woll i f some such distinction a s this could b e made i n
giving figures t u the public, because a t present i t i s
1, after t h e figures have been issued, f o r news~
papers t o commont o n the shrinkage occurring i n the
Whereas it

hrough t h e withdrawal o f state institutions.

is quite evident that i f i t were not for the passive deoroase w e should show a steady growth i n membership, o v e n

though at a decreasing rate.
Attitude

o f banks t o w a r d s t h e System.

Over a

pericd

of years there e a n b e n o doubt that t h e attitude o f banks
has grown more understanding a n d friendly.

S t i »

L h

must be said that there i s considerable variation, both
gectionally a n d individually.

T h e Committes a

ked e a c h

Chairman l a s t spring t o summarize t h e attitude o f bankers
tn R i s

d ii

favorable.

G e n e r a l l y speaking,

t h e reports w e r e

T h e earlier criticisms growing o u t o f par col-

Lectiong a n d t h e 1920 price decline have become l e s s active.
The e a s t h a s r e c e n t l y b e e n t h e c e n t e r o f c r i t i c i s m r a t h o r


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

190
than t h e West a n d South, t h e complaint being with t h e l o w
interest rates o f the last half o f 19c4. Q u e s t i o n a i r e s
sent o u t b y t h e A.B.A.

t o State banks

i n 1924 a n d t o trust

companies i n 1925 indicate i n general a recogpnitionof t h e
necessity o f t h e S y s t e m a n d a

friendly attitude towards it.

Yet a substantial number o f replies s a y that country banks
there
do n o t g e t t h e same advantages a s c i t y banks, t h a t

is too much red tape i n doing business with the Reserve
Ranke

T h e y c o m p l a i n o f a r b i t r a r y methods,

attitude;

a n autocratic

oporating
o f l a c k o f personal s e r v i c e d u e t o

undor uniform rules instead o f making requiroments

fit individual cases.

to

“ W h e n w e write the Federal Reserve

we get a lotter back filled i n by some clerk o r automaton"
gays o n e banker.
One f r e q u e n t l y h e a r s t h e r e m a r k " T h e m e m b o r b a n k s

are still far from sold on the Ststem."

M r . Merghon,

Aes
Secretary o f the Trust Jompany Section o f t h e A. B e
who h a s t r a v e l e d e x t e n s i v e l y

i r 1926:.covering e v e r y d i s -

trust
triet b u t Atlanta a n d Dallas, f i n d s t h e attitude o f
companies n o t a

v e r y h a p p y o n e individually, h o w e v e r c o -

operative t h e i r c o l l e c t i v e a t t i t u d e m a y be.

Gregory, a

M r . i. T.

British economist, w h o spent several months


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

GL
~
this year visiting banks i n tas United States, writes,
"put t h e predominant impressions with which t h e
t h e U. S e A e
student o f banking returns f r o m a visit t o
are tyvo i n number.

T h e first i s a feeling o f profoundy

extended t o
gratitude f u r the help a n d assistance which a r e
him b y bankers i n every part o f that vast country;

the

System
second i s the feeling that t h e prestige o f tis Reserve
ig much greater abroad t h a n i t i s a t home.

T h e present

many
writer h a s heard t h e Federa: Reserve System discussed
times; r a r o l y ,

exzi f ever, w i t h approbation, o f t e n with

treme bitterness.

T h a t does n o t prove anything beyond

appreciate
the fact that t h e task o f educating America t o
commenced.
the benefits o f a Central Banking System h a s hardly
How c a n this attitude b e improved?
interest o n deposits,

W e cannot p a y

w e should continue p a r collections,

and c a r d i v i d e n d s a r e n o t l i k e y

t o g o above 6

per c o n t e

b e done
The Committee, however, believes t h a t something c a n
in improving our. attitude, o u r rules a n d o u r methods.

I t is

which
the small things Like these, r a t h e r than t h e large,
often c r e a t e h u m a n relations.

T h e Committee a l s o believes

t h e y are n o w
hat w h e n t h e s e h a v e b e e n improved, w h e r e v e r
found t o b e unsatisfactory,

t h e moremembers u s e t h e System


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

192
in t h e i r d a i l y transactions, t h e y m o r e s a t i s f i e d t h e y a r e a p t

to b e with their membership.
The Committee, h a v i n g learned f r o m informal discusb y member banks varies

giong t h a t t h e u s e o r o u r s o r v i c e

considerably i n the different districts, h a s recently

asked oach Chairman t o furnish figures showing tho number o f
banks

a
i n his district w h i c h t h e various services w i t h

reasonable degree o f regularity.

T h e s e figures have been

tabulated s e p a r a t e l y f o r e a c h service,

a n d i n presenting

them t h e Committee wishes t o cali attention t o the possi-

bility o f likelihood o f some divergencies between the districts d u e t c varying interpretations o f the expression

"reasonable degree o f regularity".

T h e figures, there-

fore, cannot b e exact, h u t ere bolieved t o b e fair
approximations.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

GOIN A N D G U R R E N

Per cent o f
Member Banks u s i n g service.
Members

i n F. R . C i t y

M e m b e r s Elsewhere

$8

Boston
New Y o r k
Philadelphia
Cleveland

Richmond
Atlanta
Chicago
St. Louls
Minneapolis
Kansas C i t y
Dallas

San Francisco
All d i s t r i c t s
om

T r

P e

m H poe h e h e ,

It i s obvious f r o m these figures t h a t

M e m b e r

Banks, b o t h c i t y and country, a r e fully availing thomgelves

o f o u r c o i n a n d c u r r e n c y facilities.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

SAFPEKERPING O F SECURITIES
Per cent o f
Member Banks using service.
$e.
s

r

e

b

m

e

R e Coy

M e m b e r s elsewhere

M

AB

Boston

0

New York
Philadelphia
Cleveland
Richmond
Atlanta
Chica g
o
St. Louis
Minneapolis
Kansas C i t y
Dallas
San Francisco
ALL D i s t r i c t s

between
The foregoing figures d o not discriminate
a n d Government
securities h e l d regularly f o r gafeltteeping
h e l d i n safekeeping
gecurities p l e d g e d a s c o l l a t e r a l b u t

m a y not n o w
temporarily, because t h e banks owning t h e m


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

bo borrowings

T h e Committeo igs inclined t o think tnat

this i s particularly t h e case w i t h banks i n the Federal
their
Reserve C i t y , f o r r e s e r v e b a n k s u s u a l l y d o n o t o f f e r

safekeeping facilities t o the large c i t y banks.

I

n New

York, Governmont securities h e l d under conditions referred
to a b o v e h a v e n o t b e a n r e p o r t e d a s i n safokeeping.

h

e

country banks s e e m generally t o understand a n d avail o f
this service.

WIRMK TRANSFERS
Per cent o f Member banks u s i n g service
Members

New Y o r k

Cleveland
Richmond

Atlanta

Chicago
St. L o u i s
Minneapolis
Kansas C i t y
Dallas
San F r a n c i s c o
D i s

M i e m b e r s Elsewh
41

Boston 9

dope

I N F. R . C i t y

Ga,

cts


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

the Federal Roserve
As might b e oxpected, t h e banks i n

transferring for themGity use this sorvico very freely i n
B a n k s i n the country
selves a n d their correspondents e
although i n some o f the
districts h a v e less u s e f o r it,

a considerable
agricultural districts there i s obviously
demand f o r it.

COLLECTION O F NON CASH ITEMS

—=

per cent of Hamber banks using the service
Membors i n F. R . C i t y
Boston
New Y o r k

philadelphia
Cleveland
Richmond
Atlanta
Chicago
St. Louis
Minneapolis

Kansas C i t y
Dallas
San Francisco
All D i s t r i c t s

LOO

M e m b e r s Elsewhere


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

LOT
Here again t h e c i t y banks, s o m e o f whom are protest~
ing against t h e service, a r e uging i t quite generally}
depends
the c o u n t r y b a n k i t m a y b e t h a t t h e u s e o f t h e s e r v i c e
wrether
uvon
p

i t has been called

t o their attention.

T h e Com-

feeis t h a t varying interpretations o f the Gxpression

Mpeagonable degree o f regularity” m a y have particularly
affected the figures reported under this service.
‘EK COLLECTIONS
Porcent o f Member banks using sorvice
but excluding ‘hose w h o only send t o
Federal Reserve B a n k checks o n banks
in Federal R e s e r v e B a n k City.

Members

i n Fe Re C i t y M e m b e r s Elsewhere

Boston
New York
Philadelphia
Cleveland
Richmond

Minneapolis
Kansas vilty
Tallas
San F r a n c i s c o
Atl D i g t r i c t s

‘

B

9
M

e

yap n e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

198
As i n m o s t o f t h e o t h e r s e r v i c e s t h e c i t y b a n k s a r e
W i t h respect

using o u r c h e c k c o l l e c t i o n s y s t e m freely.

to

the country banks, t h e difforent districts vary greatly. T h e
fommittee h a g excluded f r o m these figures t h e number o f banks
which o n l y s e n d t o t h e R e s e r v e B a n k c h e c k s

o n the city i n

which t h e Reserve B a n k i s Located, bocause s u c h checks, p r e sented through t h e cloaring house, m a y hardly b e said t o pass

through our collection systom.
Rocommendation.

™

o Committeo, t h r o u g h i t s consider-

ation o f the subject o f rolations w i t h member a n d other banks,
covering a period o f severel years, h a s reachel certain v e r y
definite c o n c l u s i o n s w h i c h i t n o w w i s h o s
Gonference

t o present

t o the

f o r i t s consideration.

lee T h a t e v e r y rosgerve b a n k s h o u l d h a v e a

proporly
of

organized b a n k r e l a t i o n s d e p a r t m e n t ,

u n d e r supervision

an officor, a s d h i s p r i m a r y interest,

a n d with onough travel=

ing men t o visit every memoor pank a n d a large proportion o f
the non-member panks a t least once i n every year;
mittee's preferense,

t h e Com-

a t least f o r the present, b e i n g

approximately t w o v i s i t s coach year.
That e v e r y r e s e r v e b a n k s h o u l d p r o m p t l y u n d e r t a k e

a gurvey o f the policies, r u l e s a n d regulations under which


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

LOG
it d o e s b u s i n e s s w i t h i t s m e m b e r banks,
the o f f i c o r s a n d e m p l o y e e s

o f the attitude

of

a t i t s h e a d office a n d branches

towards member banks,

o f its correspondence

and o f t h e c o m p l a i n t s

i t h a s r e c e i v e d f r o m mombe

a view t o making i t s relavions a n c correspondonce with’ member
banks neither bureaucratic n o r impersonal,

t o elim-nate a s

much r i g i d i t y a n d r e d t a p e a s t h e c i r c u m s t a n c e s w i i l permit,

and t o make t h e relationship a s nearly a s practicable t h a t
of a

city bank towards i t s sut-of-towm correspondente
Se T h a t t h e m o r o

the f a c i l i t i e s

t h e country banks learn

t o use

t h e better i s t h e i r under-

o f t h e System,

standing o f the system a n d t h e fewor t h e i r complaints o v e r
membership,

a n d that, t h e r e f o r e ,

t n e Gonference s h o u l d dis-

cuss w a y s a n d m e a n s o f i n c r e a s i n g t h e u s e o f t h e S y s t e m ' s faci:
ities b y c o u n t r y m e m b e r buaks,

b u t o n l y With careful c o n -

sideration o f and d u e regard f o r the c i t y banks u n d their
complaints

o f F e d e r a l R e s e r v e B a n k competition.

Governor Norris. I

think t h i s i s o n e o f t h e m o s t

importent subjects before t n i s Conferences
have o n l y j u s t s c o n t h i s report,
valuable o n e ,

Ouse iat I

and I

and I

Lope t h o r e w i l l

thik

O f course 1
t e s - a very

b e very full discussion

want t o a s k w h e t h e r d i s c u s s i o n w o u l d b e p r o p e r a t


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

this p o i r t w h e r e M r . J a y h a s g i v e n a

recommendation,

o r

whether i t had better b e postponed until the entire report
has d e e n c o m p l e t e d ?

Governor Crissinger. I

think w e had better complete

the report a n d then take the matters U p e
Mre Jaye

W e then eome t o t h e second provision o f

the report, Public relations work,
A t the last Conference t h e Committee

Work f o r 1925.

w o u l d b e favorexpressed t h e view that during 1925 conditions
t h e public
able f o r the extension o f the work o f informing
about t h e System, p a r t i c u l a r l y t h e businessmen;

a n d stated

Committee w o u l d
that i f the Board agreed with this view, t h e
like t o m a k e s o m e s u g g e s t i o n s f o r &

programe

T h e Board

replied that i t would b e glad t o receive o u r suggestions,
whereupon t h e Committee m e t twice,
and i n Washington April 26th.
proposed a

A t t h e latter meeting i t

number o f methods o f facilitating t h e dissemina-~

tion o f information,
jection.

i n New York, February 13,

t o which t h e Board interposed n o ob-

T o e minutes

o f this neeting W e r e s e n t t o every

Pederal Reserve Agente

The Committee subsequently held a meeting i n Chicage,
June 2 9 a n d 3 0 , a t w h i c h Mr. McClure,

o f Kansas C i t y , M r .


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Stewart,

o f St» Louis, a n d various officers o f the

Bank were also present;

a n d a meeting a t Atlantic

September 2 9 and 50, attended b y several Chairmen,

tion t o Members o f the Committee.

i n addi-

A t these meetings the

Committee c r y s t a l l i z e d u p o n t h i s g e n e r a l principle,

boat the

most satisfactory medium f o r informing t h e American people
concerning t h e Reserve System i s not through officials o f
the System,

b u t through t h e users

o f t h e System,

that is

the Member banks.
Our m o s t o f f e c t i v e p u b l i c r e l a t i o n s w o r k i s i n f i r s t

informing t h e member banks a n d satisfying them with the systom and then making i t easy f o r them t o explain t h e system
to their customers a n d communities. I n c i d e n t a l l y , s u c h
activity o n the part o f member banks i s excellent adver-

tising for them.
Tho Committee believes t h a t i n all o f our contacts
with t h e momboer b a nks w e should d o well. t c bear i n mind
that t h e public attitude towards t h e Reserve System i n
each community lasvgely reflects t h e attitude o f the local
banks e
"f t h e b a n k e r s u n d e r s t a n d t h e f u n c t i o n s
System a n d g i v a i t t h e i r support,

t h e way t o a

o f the
better p u b l i c


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

facilitated.
understanding a n d s u p p o r t i s g r e a t l y
Gommitiee b e l i e v e s t h a t m o r e s t a t e m e n t s

b y member banks

b e helpful.
their attitude towards t h e System would
points o u t that w e have i n our Class B

of

I t also

Directors m e n o f wide

m a y perform valuable
influence i n business circles w o o
expressing their views
service f o r t h e S y s t e m b y p u b l i c l y

regarding it.
others, t h e
Largely a s a n aid * c member banks a n d
c o n s i d e r e d p r e p a r i n g vareSommittoe h a s d u r i n g t h e y a s t y e a r

t o the System which might
ious types o f material w i t h regard

thus be used.

proT h e follow!ng are the more important

t h u s f a r reached w i t h
jects c o n s i d e r e d w i t h t h e c o n c l u s i o n s

regard t o each:

b y persons
1. S o m e informative articles written
outside o f the System,

of
t o >e:. publishod i n magazines

‘national circulation.
s u c h cases,
Assistance h a s been given i n several

as
but the progress has no* been as satisfactory
the Committee hoped for.

the
5; B r i e f and timely informative articlos on
Systom f o r u s e i n o u r m o n t h l y reviews.

b y several
An article t a s prepared a n d used


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

203
monthly r e v i e w s

a t the time England returmed

to

second article w a s prepared

gold payments. A
but n o t u s e d .

Si A

manual for the use o f Speakers and writers

operations
explaining b r i e f i y t h e d i f f e r e n t f u n c t i o n s a n d
of t h e R e s e r v e System.

The Gommittee after a n earnest offort t o prepare
a manual believes t h e project impracticable a n d
5

that t h e p u r p o s e m a y b e s t b e s e r v e d b y g i v i n g t o
any s p e a k e r c o p i e s

o f speeches a l r e a d y m a d e b y

Board Members, Reserve B a n k officers,
of t h e System.

o r friends

T h e available s u p p l y o f

material o f this sort has been largely increased
during t h e year.
Short talks f o r radio usée
The Committee h a s collected a

number o f good

radio talks which have been given successfully i n
different districts.

I

t has also been i n touch

with a country-wide program f o r radio talks under
auspices o f the American Institute o f Banking,
which will ine2ude a t least o n e talk o n the Reserve System.

5. A d v e r t i s i n g copy, embodying t h e advantages o f
membership, w h i c h member banks might use.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

204
The Committee h a s accumulated a

considerable

amount o f advertising copy, b u t i s not y e t preparod t o make recommendations
be A

n e w m o t i o n picture,

o n the subjacte

a s i t seemed possible f r o m

the u s e o f the present f i l m b y the Iowa State Agricultural

State Golloge that a good film would be widely used.
No progress h a s b e e n m a d e

of a new motion picture.

i n t h e p r e p a i a tion

T h e Reserve System i s

a very difficul’ subject for a motion picture.

7, A

traveling exhiLit of informative charts and

photographs which could b e loaned temporarily t o member banks

for use i n their lobbies.
The Committee has devoted some thought and exporimenta~
tion t o the development o f a mechanical d
the u s e o f such a n exhibit. A

evice t o facilitate

tentative exhibit h a s been

prepared a n d will b e show: t o the Conference i f desired.
The Committee also discussed a better a n d more regular c o n t a c t w i t h f i n a n c i a l r e p o r t e r s

cities;

i n Federal R e s e r v e

t h e desirability o f cooperating w i t h t h e public

relationg c o m m i t t e e s

w h i c h s t a t e bankers!

associations

the middle w e s t are showing a tendency t o establish;

i n

a n d

the superiority, f r o m t h e point o f view o f our contacts,

of


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

205

county bankers groups o v e r the larger groups prevailing
in most states»
Attitude o f the public:

T h e Committee believes t h a t

the atiitude o f the public towards t h e System a n d i t s opera-

tions has become distinctly more favorable.
where h e a v y d e c l i n e s

i n f a r m p r o d u c t s h a v e b r o u g ihn) tJ m a n y

individuel a n d banking disasters t h e 1925 prse i n prices

prought much relief, a n d the effect o f h i s was noticeable
in r e d u c e d c r i t i c i s m o f t h e s y s t e m a n d i n t h e L o c a l a t t i t u d e

towards it. A

+
good deal h a s been said a n d printed about

the Sygatem i n 1925, a n d with t h e exception o f certain pamph~
Lots published i n the Northwest u n d * h e oriticoLems o f -term
tain N e w York financial publications i t has been generally
friendly.
The C o m m i t t e e f e e l e i t m a y p r o p e r l y c o m m e n t u p o n
the f r e e d o m t h e S y s t e m h a s e n j o y e d t h u s f a r f r o m t h e

criticism o f the indiviaual conduct o f its personnel, whether Directors, officers o r clerks.

I n a n orgaaization

which has grown s o fast this freedom f r o m criticism indicates a

lively s e n s e o f t h e proprieties

o n the part o f our

pursonnel. Nevertheless, the Board has during the year
requested u s t o make a new survey t o gee i f any o f o u r


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

206
personnel w e r e engaged i n political activities j u s t a s last
asked u s t o inquiro i n t o o u r outside business actiThe Committee feels t h a t i n discussing this general question o f our relations w i t t h e public w e might well
ghether a n y other practices prevail among o u r
personnel which might subject a n individual reserve bank
or the System a s a wholo t o criticism o r attack.
Charter renewal.

h

e outstanding event o f the year

n our relations v i t h t h e prblic has been t h e raising o f
the re«charter questions
First, t h e directors o f the Chamber o f Commerce o f
the U. &

i n February authorizod a survey o f the Act a n d

of t h e S y s t e m ' s

y several committees
operationsb

appointed b y its Finance Section.
the G h a m b e r

i n a position

t o be

T h e purpose w a s t o put

t o express definite v i e w s about

the System n o t later than 1 9 2 7 when i t anticipated charter
discussion might begin.
Second, S e c r e t a r y M e l l o n w r o t e a n a r t i c l e f o r

h e

May number o f the Nation's Business w h i c h i s t h e organ o f
the Chamber o f Commerce c f the United States, discussing
re-charter, a n d Suggesting eexrly consideration.
Third, t h e National Association o f Credit m e n i n June


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

asked Congress t o re-charter t h e Systems

Fourth, the American Bankers! Association asked for
prompt settlement o f the re-charter question, f o r 99-year
or indeterminate charter a n d for consideration o f the charter

question entirely apart from amendments.
This successive raising o f the re-charter question b y
the S e c r e t a r y o f t h e Treasury,

a n d b y three important organ-

izationg during a period c f six o r seven months definitely
biings t h e s u b j e c t b e f o r e t h e p u b l i c w h e r e i t i s l i k e l y t o
remain u n t i l

i t i s d e f i n i t e l y a c t e d upon.

Y o u r Gommittee

feels t h a t i t s h o u l d proposes f o r d i s c u s s i o n

b y this Conference

(1) t h e relation o f the Ststem t o the re-charter question and
(2) t h e effect which t h e raising o f the question m a y have
upon o u r work o f trying t o cstablish among the banks a n d
the p u b l i c a

better u n d e r s t a n d i a g

o f t h e System.

W i t h re-

gard t o the first, t h e Board has already expressed the view
that t h e System should not b e active i n seeking charter
renewal.
The Committee believes t h a t a very potent element
in the abandonment o f the Second Bank o f the United States
wags t h e a n x i e t y o f i t s o f f i c i a l s

t o have i t rechartered a n d

the vigorous propaganda t h e y ongagecin through newspapers


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

20€
and o t h e r w i s o

t o secure a

rechantere

W

e are protected

in

t h e pitfalls w h i c h
our s t r u c t u r e a n d o p e r a t i o n s f r o m m a n y o f

we might
caused dissatisfaction with the Second Bank, y e t
w e were
easily c r e a t e a n a n t a g o n i s t i c p u b l i c o p i n i o n i f
actively

t o s e e k rechartere

The question o f recharter i s s o important that the
the
Committee f e e l s t h a t t h e C o n f e r e n c e s h o u l d d i s c u s s

agreematter i n all i t s aspects v i t h a view t o reaching a n

with rement a S t o what shall b e the position o f the System
Directors a n d
gard t o recharter, a n d particularly h o w the
with
officers o f the Reserve Banks should conduct themselves
regard t o ite
The g e c o n d p o i n t w h i c h t h e C o m m i t t e e

asks

t h e Confer-

o f the
ence t o discuss i s whether i n view o f the raising

the work
charter question w e shoulc continue o r should stop
a better
we are n o w engaged i n o f endeavoring t o obtain
o f the System
understanding o f the functions a n d operations

among banks and the public generally.

T h e Committee r e c o m

should g e e t o
mends that w e should continue t h e work, b u t
involvement
it i n oach district that i t i s free f r o m a n y
with t h e question o f charter removal.
In closing this report t h e Committee wishes t o


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

20¢
emphasize t h e Limitations under which t h e public relations
work o f t h e S y s t e m m u s t b e c a r r i e d o n e

T h e Committee h a s

staffs o f tho
no s t a f f o f i t s own, b u t m u s t r e l y u p o n t h e

and
yariouy reserve banks, T h e i r staffs, p o t h official
non-~official., a r e all busily working o n other duties.
o f any
Public r e l a t i o n s w o r k i s n o t t h e p r i m a r y i n t e r e s t

officer o r clerk i n the Federal Reservo System.

T h e Com-

b e othermittee i s not dispoged t o zecommendc that i t should
WLSC 6 t

i g oppesed t o t h e organization

department a n d g t a f f a n y w h e r e

o f a publicity
I

i n t h e System.

t belisves

such
hat oach part o f the System should continuo t o make
a n d abilities,
contributions a s fall within i t s opportunities
people cutanc that much o f o u r best work i s i n assisting

gide the System t o discuss i t intelligently.

T h e Committee

problem o n
does a s k f o r greater intersst i n solving this
o f each o f
the part o f the Board a n d t h e principal officers
the reserve bankse

T h e Gommittee,

i n addition t o under-

taking a s b o s t i t may, p r e p a r a vion o f material

o f the kind

already discussed, w i l l b e glac, i f requested,

t o meet, a s

th
it has already done, i n various districts a n d discuss
suyject w i t h t h e o f f i c e r s

o f t h e l o c a l r e s e r v o bank.

In the pest f e w months a

number o f reserve banks

O15
t h e Committee clippings
have been sending t o the Chairman o f
discussions o f the
and extracts f r o m newspaper a n d magacine
action o f t h o
System, ospecially those which follow t h e
American Bankers’ Aesociation Convention.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

T h e s e have been

which are submitted w i t h
gathered together i n scrap books
o f t h o s e w o o m a y b e interestod.
this r e p o r t f o r t h e i n s p e c t i o n

Respectfully submitted,
John P e r r i n
Ww. A » H e a t h
Pierre J a y
Committee e

topics for discus
The Gommittee has suggested certain
sion, w h i c h are a s follows:

Bank R e l a t i o n s

Value o f bank relations departmontse
extension o f
Recommendation o f Committee regarding
work t o a l l r e s e r v e banks.

Cost o f bank relations worke
elimination
Recommendation o f Committee regarding
of f r i c t i o n w i t h m e m b e r banks.
Usc o f s e r v i c e s

b y m e m b o r banks e

b e extended?
Should t h e use o f services

Recommendations o f Committee.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

PUBLIC RELATIONS
Attitude o f System towards question o f charter
renewal.
In view o f raising o f charter question should
public relations w o r k b e continued?

Govemor Crissinger.
pefore t h e C o n f e r e n c e s

has submitted a

A

T h e r e p o r t o f t h e Committee

is

s s t a t e d b y Mr. J a y t h e C o m m i t t e e

list o f topics f o r discussion.

one i s “Value o f bank relations departments".

T h e fi
I s there

anything o n that subject?
Governor Norris.

M r . Chairman,

i t appears that t w o

year
of the reservo banks made n o visits a t all during t h e
o f the
to m e m b e r b a n k s a n d o n e b a n k o n l y v i s i t e d o n e i n five

banks e I

presume t h a t those banks d o not regard this work

aS valuable,

but I

would b e v e r y m u c h i n t e r e s t e d

i n hearing

their point o f view.
Governor Younge

L T cennct j u s t understand t h e report.

I called personally this year o r 2 0 o r 2 5 banks I

know that

the manager o f our Helena branch did the same thing, o r some
officer i n that branch called o n fully 5 0 per cent o f the
member b a n k s

i n the State

o f Montana. L

know t h a t t h e m e m


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

ale
that

w e have out

i n t h e eLlosed b a n k s c o m e

i n constant

touch

daily.
with the momber banks a n d are compelled t o d o i t
There isn't a n y question about t h e value o f bank relations

wore.

i t if a. qudstion of how Lt is donee I

suppose Mr.

know
Mitchell and the other gentlemen, including lin, Moore
every membor bank i n the 9 t h district.

O n e o f those m e n

will know t h e managing officer o f overy bank. M r . Moore
b y their
lives i n North Dakota a n d perhaps c a l l s t h e m all
first names.

M r . Mitchel]. lives i n Minnesota a n d operated

in South Dakota f o r a great m a n y years. I
for e i g h t v e a r s a n d g o m o t i m e

have been there

o r o t h e r a l l o f these b a n k e r s

have b e e n into o u r institution.

T h a t i s not a n indication

because W e
that w e d o not believe i n the bank relations work,
doe

L y i

o u r officers w h o come i n contect with t h e member

lon euler
banks r a t h e r t h a n t h e m a n r e g u l a r l y h i r e d eperO

D o you

now think that i s a fair statement o f
hell?
ea

Mr. Mitchell.

Y e s , a n d I would s a y that t h e 9 t h


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

triet h a s n o t b e e n p r o p e r l y reportec.

Jaye

o v e r y month
W o ask oach district t o report

traveling
they make through their officers o P
I
Minneapolis district reported none.

am glad

that that i s not t h e fact.
somewhere.
Governor Young» T h e r e i s some mistake
Governor WelLlborne.

G o v e r n o r Norris s a i d h e would

h a s already
to hear from t w o o f the banks. M i n n e a p o l i s
Spoken i

which t h e work
think i t i s alt i n tho manner i n

is done T h a t i g the case with us»

W e have done a great

bank relations w o r k
deal o f public relations y o r k and member
also.

agency.
W e huve g o t four branches a n d one

Those

any trouble o r anything
men visit t h e banks whon there i g
visit them;
to straighten out, a n d our officers

w e attend

and see ail the
the bankers! conventions i n the district
pankers;

I
w e even attend t h e group mestings.

myself went

attending group meetings,
around t h e entire state last. year
w a y i s very offective
and I think t h e work done i n that
and very inexpensive.

be~
T t does n o t show a heavy cost

<«
cause i t is charged i n officers! traveling
before L a s t w e employed a

man t o gg o out a n d d o tnis w o r k


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

an.4
H e visited e a c h bank a n d made o u t

at pretty heavy expense.

T h e r e p o r t s i m p l y m e a n t this, t h a t t h e y s a i d

& reporte

they were g l a d t o s e e him, a s k e d h i m t o have a seat, t h e y
would begin talking abcut t h o Federal Reserve System a n d
they would want t o know w h y w e d i d n o t p a y interest o a deposits, w a i c h was o n e thing t h e y objected to.

S o m e o f them

T h e result w a s those m e n didn't

wanted exchange o n checks.

ccme
know h o w t o talk t o the bankers ait all, a n d they would
back t o u s and t h e y would write t o u s about i t and w e began
to get into a tangle a n d w e really reached t h e conclusion
that i t was doing more h a r m than good.

M r . Newton c a n g o

more i n t o t h e details, because h e i s chairman o f that committee i n our bank, b u t I think w e are conducting those
functions o f the bank i n a manner entirely satisfactory t o
our Board o f directors.
Governor Crissinger.

M r . Newton?

would like t o s a y that i n the oarly

Mr, Newton. I

part o f t h e year w e bogan t o reduce o u r expense j u s t a s
much a s w e could, b e c a u s e

the rear.

w e were running v e r y heavily i n

W e had determined t o effect every cconomy we

could i n t h e bank.

W

e decided a t that time t h a t w e would

not send o u t t h e t w o m e n who h a d been traveling regularly,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

215
but t h a t w e w o u l d s e n d a

representative

o f the bank t o cach

of these group meetings a n d meetings o f the bankers’ associa-~
+LonSe

I t s o happens t h a t i n our district s o m e o f the states

have their group meetings i n the spring o f the year, a n d i n
other states the g r o u p meetings a r e i n the fall a n d w e have
not f a i l e d t o h a v e a

representative

o f the bank attend t h e m

go far a s I know, a n d also t h e state conventions.
gend a

W e always

m a n w h o i g t h o r o u g h l y c o n v e r s a n t W i t h t h e effsaivs o f

the bank. I

might s a y that w e sent a s o u r aliubassador t o one

of the state conventions Mr. Wellborn, a n c I attended o n e o f
he otherse

M r . Wellborm h a s attended several o f the group

meetings. I

had intended t o attend another convention, b u t

I wag 211 a t the time a n d could n o t go.
officer o f the bank.

W e sent another

W e have kept i n closs touch with o u r

members and I think that there i s a goo
district i n the main between t h e member banks a n d the Federal
Reserve B a n k o f Atlanta. I
cases,

do n o t believe there a r e a n y

o r a t least v e r y fewcases, w h e r e there a r e a n y com-

plaints presented.
recently t o which I

H o w e v e r , t h e r e were t w o cases presented
would like t o call attention,

I n Knozx-

ville a matter c a m e u p which looked like i t might result
in some considerable feeling.

W e sent o n e o f our m e n u p


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

216

immediately, a

man that w e thought was boast fitted t o treat
v

o

d

r

s from e a c h

eneity t o t h e effect t h a t t h e y were

e

banks i

i

W e h

with t h e situation.

the
t n e visit a n d with the resuits o f

satisfied ¥

bank.
Thet bags been o u r policy i n the Atlanta
T

¢

Governor ( g

e second topic recommended

h

by t h e Committees f o r d i s c u s s i o n

i s "Recommendation

o f Com-

all reserve banks."
mittee regarding extension o f work t o
That i s a p p a r e n t l y c o v e r e d

i n t h e o t h e r topic.

Ye haven't heard anything from the Reserve
Board o n tue sudject
Mr, Martin. i

a

matter o f information, I

think

m e n w h o were s e n t
it might b e o f interest t o know about t h e

out o n the roade
unless

h e is a

I t is absolutely wrong t o send a man out

highly trained m a n e

that i t was wise, before sending a

d e e r e L o u i s w e found

man o u t o n the road o n

i n practically a l l
work o f this kind, t h a t t h e man worked
o n l y know t h e language
departments o f the bank, t h a t h e not
the country banker about
of transits, a n d b e able t o talk t o
t h e processes inside
arranging h i s items, b u t that h e know
about a l l o f the
the b a n k a n d c a n t a l k w i t h t h a t b a n k e r

h i m with regard
operations o f his bank a n d i s able t o help

217
A
to the operations o f t h e bank.

man who c a n g o into h i s

able t o tell whether h i s notes
pill c a s e i f desired a n d b e

not; w h o i s able t o tell
are eligible for rediscount o r
c a n be made eligible
him that a certain bateh of notes
words w e find i t desirable
by doing s o and 30+ I n other


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

h e goes o n the road.
train h i m i n t h e bank before

W e have

him g o alone, until h e
also found i t desirable not t o let
months w i t h a n older man; a l s o
has traveled f o r about three
way. H e goes there
he i s never s e t o u t i n a n jnquisitorial
as a

friend

o f the banker

spirit o f criticism.

I

and not

,lly n o t
a s a n e x a m i n e rjo

n time h e oStablishes a

i n a

relation-

a n d they are g l a d t o see
ghip w i t h that banker o r bankers,

their affairs. Therefore
him and glad t o talk t o him about
a n d v e r y necessary,
we t h i n k i t h i g h l y d e s i r a b l e

i n order

relations department,
to get the full effects o f the bank
trainede
that t h e m e n b e h i g h l y
Governor Y o u n g e I

think I

would l i k e t o h a v e a

Little

fully take i t u p with o u r
time o n this matter i n order t o
Board o f Directarse
Governor Grissinger.

I f there i s nothing further

on

work",
this the next is "Cost of bank relations
Governor Strong. I

notice s e v e r a l c u r i o u s i t i e s

in

22.8
the r e p o r t o f e x p e n s e d

F o r instance S a n Francisco roports

banks
aa average c o s t o f 5 7 cents f o r disciplining t h e membor

and Dallas a n averago cost of $20. M i n n o a p o l i s shows $400
which uoes n o t involve a n y discipline. I

wonder i f ths

will
question o f expense could not b e reviewed s o that w e

know what w e are doing?


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Governor Crissinger.

W i l l Governor Talley tell u s

why i t costs $20 i n hig district aud only 5 7 cents somewhere
else?

Governor Talley, I

was just noticing the same thing.

Governor Calkins Nas a total oxpense of $408. I

presume

that might be Cue t o the branches, wnich are located fairly
in a
equi-distant o v e r t h e district a n d they c a n b e visited
day o r a n o v e r n i g h t v i s i t anyway.

T h e r e s i g one i t e m that

4 any other item, and that is,
might bear a s close s c r u t i n y s
for instance, w i t h 2 4 o f our member bank relations m e n
wisiting overy bank i n the district, e v e r y member bank,and

quite a large numbor o f the non=member banks, they did i t
at L e s s e x p e n s e t h a n f o r 1925.

T h a t i s d u e t o better d i s -

tricting o f t h e i r territories.

O u r expense s h o w s p r o p o r

tionately h i g h compared * o some o f the other banks, a n d i t
looks excessive, b u t o f course o u r district extends f r o m

219
quite a n exNatchez, Mississippi e a s t t o Arizona, w h i c h i s
deal o f time t o get
panse o f territory, a n d i t takes a good
over thoge l o n g distances.

H o w o v e r , e v e r y i t e m o f expense

w o r k i s charged
sonnecved w i t h the member bank relations

into that.

of
N o officers' traveling expenses o r anything

I
thet kind absorbs a n y part o f ite W h i l e

am speaking I

bank relations
might a d d that w e somotimes c a l l o u r member
men attorneys f c r the member panks.

W

e expect them t o

the member bank
vigit t h e member banks, g e t t h e viewpoint o f

and bring i t into us.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

W e find i t of great value, t h e filing

becausc
of copies o f their reports w i t h t h e credit department,
trade
they are expected t o make a n exonomic survey o f the
t h e y visit,
in the territory, a n d i n the member banks that

with-respect
and it gives u s quite a good deal o f information
verritory,
to the business conditions t h a t exist i n the
although t h e y a r e n o t e x p e c t e d

t o make a n y oxamination

of

he banks, a n c are instructed n o t t o d o sO-«
Mr. Hoxtone

T h e y could not d o that under t h e lawe

Governor Talley. ©

We w o r k e d o u t l a s t y e a r a

coordina-

t h e member bank
tion b e t w e e n t h e o x a m i n a t i o n d e p a r t m e n t a n d

Those
relations department that has proved v e r y effectivee
groups
reports c o m e across t h e same desk f r o m the different

OSD
ha

ONY

Bank
T n one direction w e get t h e Federal Reservo

of men.

banks a n d
viewpoint a n d the attitude toward t h e Member
banks' viewpoint,
through t h e other source w e get t h e momber
w h e n w e have
and w e c a n come t o very intelligen c o n c l u s i o n s
all t h a t i n f o r m a t i o n b e f o r e U S e

Goveimor Crissinger.
plain h o w y o u o p e r a t e

o n such a

Governor Calkins.
expendec

b y o u r bank I

upon .for a n y a p o l a g y e I


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

G o v e r n o r Calkins, w i l l y o u exgmalLl amount?

I n view o f the amount shown a s

was o f t h e i d e a I

would n o t b e c a l l e d

understand t h a t Mr. J a m e s h a s i n -

district, o u r
timated that, o w i n g t a the smallness o f our
men m u s t w a l k w h e n t h e y m a k e t h e i r visit.
fact h o w e v e r e

T h a t i s not the

branches
T h e fact i s w e have f i v e v e r y active

pank relations
and a n additional h e a d office, a n d t h e member
work h a g b e e n d o n e b y o f f i c e r s

o f our bank a n d b y c h e

locations.
managers o f the branches i n their respective
traveling e x { think t h e charging o f expense t o their
o n othen
penses i s proper, because t h e y frequently travel
t h e banks.
pusiness t h a n that o f a nere visit t o

T h o figures

e a c h member bank i n
in this report s h o w that approximately
a year, b u t that o f
the district h a s been visited once i n
banks that a r e not
course does n o t include t h e city tember

4

Zor

on t h a t list.

o f the
I T believe m y s e l f t h a t t h e c o n t a c t

branch managers w i t h t h e

i s t r i c t i s t h e dest

k sj

b a n k can h a v e .
kind o f contact that t h e F e a e r 3 s e r v e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Govermor N o r r i s e
that i s n o t c o v e r e d

j u s t w a n t t o develop o n e point

I
i n t h e report o f t h e committee.

think

o f the
that these visits o f the traveling reprosentatives
non-member banks a r o
reserve banks t o the member banks a n d
i f these traweling
gmmensely valuavle i n themselves; b u t
a n d that t h e offinen report t h a t they have visited a bank
membors, b u t
the bank have s a i d that yes, t h e y were
they were n o t using o u r service,

w e were n o t a n y good t o them,

h a d t o be,
they w e r e o n l y m e m b e r s b e c a u s e t h e y

o r what t h e y

about t h e system,
thought there was a great deal o f red tape
or that w e were bureaucratic,
*

o r anything o f that sort, a n d

the m a t t e r s t o p s there, t h e r e i s n ' t a

done.

great d e a l o f g o o d

reports
T o get the real benefit o f those visits t h e

governor o r
of these m e n w h o come into t h e chairman, t h e
should b e carofully
the officer w h o has charge o f that work,
o f that sort
eonsidered b y h i m a n d relieved o f complaint
bank, a n d
such a s failure t o use t h e service o f the reserva
t h a t has 2xpressed
it ought t o then b e taken u p with t h e bank
the criticism.

W

e i n v a r i a b l y f o l l o w t h a t practice.

A L L

eee

these reports come ovor m y desk, a n d I never fail i n any case,
t o write a

where t h e r e i s c r i t i c i s m o r u n f a v o r a b l e c o m m e n t ,

of
Letter t o the officer w h o made that report a s 4 result
the visit o f one o f our men, asxing h i m i f possible t o come
into t h e bank a n d g o over those matters w i t h me.

W e find

bank
in every c a s e whore w e c a n g e t t h e officer o f a member
to come i n that w e convert a

critic into a warm f r i e n d a n d

often into a booster f o r t h e Systome


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Governor Bailey.

T h a t igs true i n our casee H v e r y

o f the
senior officer i n the bank gets a copy of the report
traveling Tene
Governor Crissingor.

T h e next topic i s "Recommenda-

tion o f committee regarding olimination o f friction with
member banks."

Mr, Jay»

T h e Agents! Committee, during the Agents!

Conference, Spent a n afternoon discussing this subject amongst
themselves,

v a n d while naturally n o Gefinite conclusion

could b e reeched, rules suggested o r anything o f that kind,

it being a n individual matter i n oach case, I
general t h e discussion w a s very helpful «
operating matter.
friction a s a

think i n

I t i s largely a n

I t i s operating conditions t h a t create

rule.

ir”
fa kor

of serGovernor Crissingere T h e next topic is "Use
vice b y member panks".
Mr, Jaye

T h i g i g the first time a n y attempt has been
o f the extent t o w

wede t c m a k e a n a n a l v s i s

h

i

s
c h
services

I thoughtpossibare being uged i n the different districts and

ly ther igonference might wish to disouss that.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Govemor Crissinger.

I s there anything o n that? I f

not the next is "Should the use of services be extended."
Governor S e a y e
department

I f w e h a d n o so-called b a n k relations

who has
w e ghould nevertholess o m p l o y e v e r y m a n

a place i n that organization. I

think i

acwonderfully

congood report and should be recommended t o the diligent
Bank.
sideration o f e v e r y F e d e r a l R e s e r v e

Governor Crissinger.

W e will have a motion t o that

affect when w e get througn.
Governor S 6 a y e

I

f this i g t h e e n d o f t h e discussion

of that part o f i t I will make i t rignt now.
Governor Crissingoer.
rank relations?

I s there anything frurtl

I f not w e will take u p t h e next subject

toward guestion
which i g public relations,"Attitude o f Systom
of c h a r t e r renewal.

Mr, Jaye

M a y w e have a statement o f the Board's

o n t h a t subject?

attitude

agree entirely with what t h e Committee

Mr, Hamlin. I

t o be put i n
has said, t h a t w e o u g h t t o b e v e r y c a r e f u l n o t
o f the
the p o s i t i o n o f p u t t i n g o u t p r o p a g a n d a f o r renewal

charters. W h a t e v e r work that can be done along that line,
i* i t ig the belief that the charter should b e renewed,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

o f the
ghould b e done. by people other t h a t officials

system. i

think it ig a ease where grave danger might

reresult i f the Board o r the ective officers o f the
f o r that
serve bank sbould actively engage i n propaganda
PULrpO See
Governor Railey.«

for instance,
atarts

ayy I

B u t suppose a

Member o f Congress;

i n your district, c o m e s into t h e bank a n d

c l o s e u p entiroet o t a l k t o youabout i t , y o u w o u l d n o t

and
would certainly give h i m m y opinion about i t

support t h e S y s t e m a l l I
Mr. H a m l i n .

could.

W h e r e a

p e r s o n c o m e s d i r e c t l y t o you,

of c o u r s o y o u s h o u l d g i v e h i m s u c h i n f o r m a t i o n
Governor Bailey.

a s y o u can.

M y idea i s that w e reprogent t h e

not be i n
System a n d when people c c m e into t h e bani w e ghovld
a position o f not raiding o u r voice i n defence o f the System.
T want t o s a y t h a t I

have a

very w a r m h e a r t e d i n t e r e s t

i n it

t h e proper cirand would certainly express m y opinion under


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

cumstances.

Strong.
W h e t d o y o u t h i n k a b o u t that, G o v e r n o r

T follow your flag most o f the time.
havo a very warm hearted interest

Governor Strong. I

think t h e r e i s q u i t e a

mni t too, w u s t a s y o u havee 1
difference b e t w e e n a

man expressing a

purely personal v i e w

which
on a matter o f that sort a n d having a system policy
a s pute
results followirg s course that cannot b o construed
ting forth propaganda.

[ f the impression w e r e t o g e t abroad

enthat this great organization w i t h its immense power were
gaged i n seeking t o force u p o n a n unwilling public a

renewal

of their charters, a n d i f they were n o t renewed t h e y would
wreck t h e c o u n t r y -=- o f
would b e a

t

h

a

t i s t h e extreme v i e w - - i t

dangerous t h i n g f o r t h e System.

a question f o r t h e p o l i t i c a l g o v o r n m e n t
asks m y views a b o u t

it I

think I

A f t e r all i t i s

t o t a k e up.

I

f anybo:,

would h a v e n o d i f f i c u l t y

in expressing t h e m without creating t h a v impression a n d I
am perfoctly sure that a natural b o m orator like you,
Governor Bailey, c o u l d d e i t perfectly.
Govermor Crissinger.

any o n o o n this subject.
James?

V

e would like t o hear f r o m

H a v e y o u anything t o gay, Mr.

226

do not think I can contribute anything

Mr. James. I
to. what has been said.

Governor Crissinger.

think G o v e r n o r S t r o n g h a s e x h a u s t e d

Mr, Miller. I

agree w i t h him.

the subjecte I


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

r r , Miller?

Governor Strong.

W h i l e w e havo a l l agreed t o work

i n order that
to promote t h i s question o f bank relations
Lotter understanding

there m a y b e a
not a

b y t h e pubpLicy 3 8 ° 2 5

certain w e n i n the
gort o f specialty j o b delegated t o

reserve banks? I

would like t o give t o those men, s o f a r

as o u r b a n k igs concerned,

t h e freedom that that responsibility

justifies.
Mr. Jay. A g a i n I would like t o s a y that these t w o
with
things, w h i l o t h e y a r e inter-rela tod, t h e relation

are
banks, public speaking, information and s o on, they
really guite different.

T h e Committee a s a Committee does

relations w i t h
not a o anything with regard t o the work o f
banks «

banks
I t simply collects statistics f r o m reserve

and all that
oach m o n t h a s t o h o w m a n y v i s i t s t h e y m a k o

sort o f thing.

I t does n o t attempt t o d o anything oncept

to presont the mattes for discussion once a year a t these
conferencese

W i t h regard t o the public relations, t h e

committee a s a committec has sought t o prepare certain
projects t o assist i n various ways a n d i s doing 4 Little


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

something i n that direction;

b u t i t is not doing anything

at all i n any district i n regard t o bank relations, except
to d i s c u s s t h e m a t t e r o n c e a

Mr, James.

y e a r a t t h i s conference.

W o u l d i t b e i n order t o move t h a t w e

receive t h i s report o f the Standing Committee w i t h thanks
and

from t h e C o n f e r e n c e f o r t h e e f f o r t s t h a t t h e y h a v e made,
then c o n t i n u e t h e c o m m i t t e e

a n i t s work? T

Will m a k e t h a t

sort o f a motion.
Mr. Perrin.

B e f o r e t h a t m o t i o n igs put I

believe t h e

representatives o f the different banks would b e glad t o
know t h e attitude o f the Board i n regard t o undertaking
organized bank relations w o r k i n each o f the districts.
Some o f the banks m a y not wish t o d o it; o t h e r s m a y wish
tO" a0: 3 0 I

think t h e r e i s d o u b t a s t o r h e t h e r t h e F e d e r a l

Reserve Board would approve o f all the banks going inte it.
Mr, Miller.
attitude

T h e s o gentlemen a r e interested i n the

o f t h e Board,

a n d n o t i n o u r individual o p i n i o n s .

My recollection i s o n one a r two occasions t h e Board has
officially e x p r e s s e d i t s e l f a b o u t t h a t e P e r s o n a l l y I

have

always
the gravest doubts a s t o the utility o f the work a n d


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

have h a d e T

a m n o t v e r y f r i e n d l y t o it.

Mr. J a m e s ,
oe

nuing the work.

I

n a

broad s e n s o

w e are

i n favor

o f con-

O n the other hand I recognizo the difhave

ference t h a t exists i n the difforent districts. I

folt all t h e time that t h e officers o f the reserve banks
are perhaps i n a better position t o judge o f the werk a n d
to d i r e c t t h e s c o p e o f i t t h a n t h e B o a r d w o u l d b e i n t r y i n g

to direct i t as a Systom matter from Washington. I
gay t h a t t h o y s h o u l d b e giver. v e r y b r o a d l a t i t u d e
of t h e b a n k s

should
i n each

i n t h i s matter,

Governor Strong. B o f o r e putting that motion I

would

like t o state that I believe t h a t t h e subject o f recharter
b y various organizations. I

is a c t i v e l y b o i n g d i s c u s s e d

just learned today that anothor organization has passed
a resolution

o n t h e s u b j e v t a t i t s convention.

I

u goems

to m e that there i g a possibility n o w o f gome o n e officer o f
a reserve bank, s a y , m a k i n g s o m e i n c a u t i o u s p u b l i c u t t e r a n c e
which g o u l d c a u s e c o n s i d e r a b l e e m b a r r a s s m e n t
Theso r e p o r t s

t o t h e System.

o f t h e Pubiic relations m e n a r e carefully

read i n t h e r e s e r v e banks.

T h e r e i s a little m a t t e r o f

administrative d e t a i l t h a v I

would l i k e t o s e e u n d e r t a k e n b y

every r e s e r v e bank, a n d t h a t i s t h a t a

carefully p r e p a r e d


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

See

written statement b o made o f t h e attitude o f the membor
bank velations department,and t h a t t h e officers,

i n making

addresses a n d i n discussing t h e matter should have a
sta tement, t h a t a

copy

copy s h o u l d b o h a n d e d t o e v e r y

one o f t h o s e m e n s o t u a t t h e y a r e u n d e r s p e c i f i c w r i t t e n

instructions t h a t they a r e not t o vislate.e S o m e o n e might
go o u t t o a bankers! convention a n d make a n incautious speech
which t h e newspapors might take up. w h i c h might g e t into
Congress a n d cause a

great deal o f h a m o n this recharter

ma ttore
Govarnor Orissinger.

T h e r e i s some danger o f that.

Are t h e r e a n y f u r t h e r r e m a r k s ?

Mr, Perrin. T h i s should be considered from two
anglese

O n e bank relations w h i c h refer t o sfficers a n d

representatives

o f t h e banks,

lationg w h i c h r e l a t e s

a n d t h e o t h e r i s public r e -

t o s p e e c h e s m a d e a n d s o forth.

am covering both o f them. I

Governor Strong. I

mean private conversation a n d public utterances.

Mr. Perrine T h e r e i s obviously much more danger i n
the p u b l i c u t t e r a n c e t h a n i n t h e o t h e r a

Governor Stronge O m v i o u s l y .
G o v e m o r McDougal.

W

e h a v e p a s s e d o n this r e p o r t now,

23%
but I think w e are going t o leave i t i n a v e r y unsatisfactory
condition, particularly s o unless w e get from the Board a n
oxpression o f its views a s t o whet t h e attitude should
bo o n whe question o f tne charter renewal.
t T do n o t think t h e Board

Governor Crissingor.
hagupassed u p o n t h e question.

would like t o know from t h e

Governor McDougal. I
Board w h a t t h e i r a t t i t u d e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

i s a n d w h a t o u r a t t i t u d e s h o u l d be.

Governor Cvissingor. I

cannot speak f o r t h e entire

Boarde

Mp, Miller. I

think it is stated i n the report that

they advise against a n y activity.
Y e s , w e would b e against that.

Governor Crissingor.

I think Mr. J a y knows m y personal opinion about it. I

am

very much o f the opinion vhat t h e banks a n d the Board should
gtey o u t o f the discussion a s much a s possible until called
upon b y C o n g r e s s

t o express

a n opinion.

T h a t i s m y notion

about it.
Governor Seay.

I + appears t h a t a s t h e R e s e r v e S y s t e m

itself d i s p l a y s r e t i c e n c e

i n that regard that o n g public o r -

ganization after another i s coming forward and showiug a
Little anziety.

T h e r e f o r e t h e work that ought t o b e done

SL

in that direction m e
organizations

public
d o n e a n d i s boing done b y

m o r e effect.
and p e r h a p s w i l l b e d o n e w i t h

show the m o r e anxiety t h o y
Porhaps t h e more reticence w e
will sgl.ow.

Mr. jays T e r e i s just one other
motion i s m a d e a n d t h e d i g c u s s i o n
wishes

T h e Committes

clused.

t h e Board a n d t h e Conference
t o have t h e ~iew o f

the raising o f the charter
or, this: W h e t h e r i n view o f

o f an informative naturo,
<
question our work which i s vurely
,
the committee i s that
o
f
opinion
T
o
e
on?
g
o
.should not


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

question should have n o effect
the raiging o f the charter
savors
keep o u t o f anything that
on its work, provided t h e y
the charter.
of propaganda w i t h respect t o
Governor

n

g

W h a t does t h e conference

about thet suggesvion?
Governor S e a y e T

the gonmove i t i s t h e s e n s e o f

bearrovbarter should have n o
forence that t h e question o f
ing upon t h e work o f this tommittee.
Governor |

i n g e

Mr. James! motion firste

W

h

e will h

e

)

dispose o f

i s nothing further o n

the quostion.
the motion o f Mr. Janes I will put
/
seconded, was carried.)
(The motion having been duly


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Pa

Governor CGrissinger.

o y e

N o w , Governor S e a y y o u m a y put

vrour motion.

think Mr. James’ motion cevers

Govemmor Seay» 1

the wholo thing, a n d m y motion i s not nocessary.
Governor Norris.

T h e Board suggested a topic which

that
{ think i s closely allied t o this, 8 0 closely allied
perhaps

i t would b e well t o take i t u p nowe

T h e Board s u b

of
mitted t o t h e conference t h e question o f the advisability
at
discontinuing exhibits, t h a t i s Federal Reserve exhibits
such gatherings a s that o f the American Bankers Association.
My impression i s that t h e Governors a r e prepared t o answer
the question,

and I

presume t h e A g e n t s A L O »

W o u l d i t be

proper t o take that u p now?
Governor Crissinger.
Governors

W h a t was the conclusion o f the

o n t h a t subject?

Governor Strong. I

think w e a p p r o v e d t h e c o n t i n -

uance o f them.
Governor Crissinger.
Mr, J a y e
to t h e Secretary,

h

A n d what d i d t h e Agents do?

e committee t u r n e d i n a

t h e substance

wrivtch report

o f which w a s that inasmuch

as these oxhibits have n o w been made f o r four years, o n c e
in New York, t w i c e i n Atiantic C i t y a n d once i n Chicago,and


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

that t h e y c o v e r e d p r a c t i c a l l y e v e r y p h a s e o f D e d e r a l R e s e r v e

activity, t h a t i t has pretty well exhausted t h e subject,
that w e t h i n k t h a t i t i s n o t worth t h e t i m e o r t h e m o n e y t h a t
it cos:

t o prepare t h e m a n d continue them.

B u t w e & 2863

suggested that inasmuch a s t h e noxt convention w a s t o be
held i n Los Angeles,

i n a section o f the country where there

has b e e n n o s u c h e x h i b i t s ,

and that therefore m a n y people

attending t h e convention might never have seen one, t h a t
the exhibits t o b e placed a t the disposal o f the S a n Francisco

Bank, a n d i x the bank wishes t o make such a n exhibit i t could
be m a d e w i t h v e r y l i t t l e l a b o r a n d e x p e n s e a t t h e Logs Angeles

Sonvention,

i f i t was t h e desire o f the S a n Francisco B a n k

to d o it.
Governor Crissinger.

I s there anything further?

W e

have t h e report from t h e Governors’ Conference approving
the continuance o f i t while t h e Agents submit a n ontitmedl
report.
Governor S t r o n g e

M

a
y m e m o r y i s t h a t a t seeond m e e t i n g

we referred t h e subject back t o t h e Public Relations Committes.

Mr. Harrison.

M y r understanding o f the action was

that i t was t h e sense o f the Conference

w h o were prosent

at the Atlantic G i t y Convention a n d s a w the exhibits

Bok

that i t made a

favorable impression a n d that i t was a good

thing f o r the System t o continue it.
Governor Orissinger.

W a s a n y action t a k e n b y the

Roard?
Mr. H d d y .

N o t h i n g further t h a n t o report

i t and t o

place i t o n t h e program.

Mr. James. I

would like t o hear from Governor Calkins

held
on Mr, Porrin o n this, as the next Convention i s to be


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

in Los Angeles.
the
Governor Calkins. I n a s m u c h a s I did not attend
convention a n d d i d n o t s e e t h e exhibit, I

do not feel confi-

dent t o express a n y o p i n i o n a t t h i s t i m e .

Mr. Perrin. I

do not think a number o f u s have seen

it.
the exhibit a n d w e have h a d n o discussion together about

Governor Crissinger. I

would suggest that i f t h e

make
California B a n k s e o s f i t t o m a k e t h e e x h i b i t t h a t t h e y

application t o t h e Board a n d w e will pass upon it.
Mr. Austin. I

think a l i o f the materia?

i s available

for t h e e x h i b i t i f t h e y w i s h t o h a v e i t .

Governor Crissinger.

A s I rocall t h e procedure w i t h

regard t o the exhibit, t h e matter has been submittod t o the
Board and the Board has approved i t heretofore.

255
move that t h e matter boi're«

Governor Stronge I

ferred t o t h e S a n F r a n c i s c o B a n k ,

a s t h e y a r e t h e next Gonven~

tion City, o r rather L o s Angeles.
(The motion having been duly secondec, w a s carried.)
Governor Crissingers

T h e next subject presented b y

the Agents f o x discussion w a s t h e discount policy.

T h e

the Board h a d
Agents discussed that topic w i t h t h e Board a n d
the Committee o f Governors o n Open Market Operations before
theme

D o e s

a n y one desire

t o continue

t h e discussion

o f

this matter?


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Governor Strong.

W

e had a

very full discussion

of

it a t our meeting, Governor, a n d s o far a s t h e Governors o f
the R e s e r v e B a n k s a r e concerned, I

think w e h a v e e x h a u s t e d

the s u b j e c t e

Governor Crissinger.

D o the Agents desire any f u r - -

ther d i s c u s s i o n o f L o e
Mr, A u s t i n . I

think

Governor Crissinger.

w e also cxhausted it.

D

o a n y members

o f the Board

wish t o s a y a n y t h i n g f u r t h e r a b o u t i t ?

Mr, Hamlin. I

think not, Governor.

Governor Crissinger.

T h e n w e will pass t h e subject.

The next i s IJpen Market Policy.

T h a t was also pretty


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

206

thoroughly discussed b y the Ageits a n d the Committee o f
GOVeErnorss

I

of

f n o o n e desires a n y further discussion

+ w e will pass i t likewise.
The n e x t i s t h e p o l i c y o f p a y i n g o u t gold.
is a

n e w subject.

W

Uoues|

W h o w i l l t a k e t h e s u b j e c t u p f o r discus-

sion?
[ I think t h a t w a s i n t e n d e d s i m p l y

Governor Strong.
a8 a

report

t o b e made,

a s w e always d o ,

o n paymonts

o f gold.

I understood Mr, D e w e y hed something t o gay o n that subject.
I happoned t o b e out w h e n h e made h i s statoment.
Govarnor Crissinger,

H e made a

stotement here.

Did

he a l s o m a k e o n e a t y o u r m e e t i n g ?

did not know whether i t was i n -

Governor Strong. I

tended t o be discussed at this joint meeting or not.
Mr, Harrison.

M r . Dewoy made n o separate statement

at o u r meeting.

Governor Crissinger.
ference o n t h e mattor.
Governor Strong.

W h a t i s the view o f the Con-

H a s anybody anything t o say?
W e d i d not p u t i t o n the Joint

Programe

Mrg Jay» I

think some of the Agents felt it would

be interesting t o discuss t h e general policy o f t h e System


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

257
with regard t o it.

do it.

S o m o banks d o i t and other banks d o not

W e undorstood i t w s o n the Governor's program.

thought i t m i g h t b e interesting,

W o

i f thore w a s a n y discussion

of it, t o have that discussion a t the Joint Conference rather
than a t t h e s e p a r a t e c o n f o r e n c e s ,
wiches

W h e t h e r a n y Agent present

t o bring i t u p f o r discussion n o w I

Governor Crissinger.

d o n o t know.

I f not w e will pass it.

We w i l l t a k e u p t h e Governors! p r o g r a m e

W

o have disposed

of Topic 1-B, recommendations c o n ained i n the report o f the
Agents C o m m i t t e e

o n member b a n k reserves. I

disposed o f a l l t o p i c s

o n page 1 .

O

think w e h a v e

n pago 3 , i s the topic

“oanouLd not the Treasury Dapartment absorb t h e cost o f transForring o n e dollar wills f r o m o n e Federal Reserve B a n k t o
anothor?
Governor Bailey.

T h e Treasury h a s expressed itself

as being i n favor o f that but they have n o appropriation;
that a s soon a s they a r e able y g 9 t a n appropriation t h e y
will d o it.
Governor Strong.

A n d t h e y are making a n effort t o

Governor Crissinger.

T h a t disposes o f that.

T h o n

=ffectiveness o f budget control o f the oxponse


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

258
of operating the Federal Reserve banks and s o forth.

A t

the present time t h e Federal Reserve Banks o f New York,
Philadelphia, Oleveland, Richmonc, Chicago, Minneapolis
end Sar Francisco a r é operating under budgets

along the lines suggested b y the Board's Budget Committee.
Tt} is e x p e c t e d that the discussion o f this subject i n the

Conference will be led b y t h e Governors o f those banks for
whe benefit o f the Governors o f t h e other banks w h i c h have
not y e t adopted a budget system.

Goveinor Strong. G o v e r n o r Crissinger, t h e list of
panks whieca have adopted the budget system i s not complete
in the topic a s submitted b y t h e Eoard. T h e r e a r e nine
banks instead o f seven.

O n l y three banks a r e n o t operating

along that line and those three banks, i n the course o f our
discussion, m a i n t a i n t h a t t h e s y s t e m w h i c h t h e y h a v e h a d i n

operation w a s substantially a s effective a s t h e Budget
System a n d s t a t e d t h a t t h e y h a d v e r y s a t i s f a c t o r y r e s u l t s
from t h e i r system.

Governor Crissingor.

D o t h e banks care t o b e heard

who h a v e n o t a d o p t e d i t e
Governor Talley. T

would s a y w i t h r e s p e c t

Tallas B a n k that w e have simply been under a

t o the

misapprehension

Boo

of what waS intended b y the word "budget".

W e find that

the Board desires t o have t h e control o f the expenditures
this Condeseribed a S a budget system, a n d since coming t o
Perence I

good deal o f light o n the subject

have gotten a

as t o w h a t t h e B o a r d r e a l l y intends.

I

n other words I

w e just
think w e have t h e baby d o m there a l l right, b u t

never have named it. T h a t i g all there i s t o it.
ir, JameSe

T t seems t o m e that a s Governor Talley

has repented and come into the fold that the other two ought


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

tO get i n line a n d make i t unanimous.
a i a m o n e o f t h e e t h e r two.

Governor Bailey.

I t is

oasy onough t o name it.
Governor Crissingere

I f there i s nothing further o n

the Budget question w e will g o t o page 4, Topic G, "Permanent
employmont

b y t h e Board a t a f i x e d retainer

sel o f o u t s t a n d i n g abdiilty t o a s s i s t

o f special coun-.,

i n litigation,

such as

the so-called Pascagoula a n d Brookings p a r cloarance cases,
and s o forth."
This h a s been before b o t h Conferences, a n d a s [ roememthe Agents v o t e d against it.
Mr.

P e r r i n .

Y

e

s

e

Governor Strong. I

think w e voted unanimously t o

sencur i n .

v o t e o f t h o Gonferonce o f counsel o f

vesgorve banks, t h a t i t w a s inadviseble-.

Governor Talley.

N o t unenimously Governor Stronge

Mllas v o t e d no.
Govermmor Crissingere

T h e r e i s anothor topic a t the

o f Committeo o n
mottom o f the page, M , report o f Chairman

Legislative Matters,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

poen made.

W e h a v e had that.

T h a t cleans u p t h e prograle

T h e report has
I g there anything

further?

Mr, Miller.

W h a t disposition was made o f tho tepic

Board's control a l l
with regard t o coordinating under t h e
Systom?
of the examining w o r k o f the Federal Reserve

Governor Crissinger. W h a t did the Agents d o about

Mr, Perrin.

T h a t was o n the Agents’ program.

W e had

on
a long discussion o f the whole examination question
Thursday m o m i n g ,

a n d as a

result o f that a

committee w a s

appointed t o study into t h e whole guestione
Mr. Jays

T h e Public Relations Committee h a s develop-

o f the
ed a mechanical device for showing some pictures
small country
Reserve S y s t o m , w h i c h d e v i c e i s u s e d i n t h e

banks.

I t i g set u p i n Mr, Platt's room and we would

at e e
idke t o have members o f the Conference l o o k


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

41
Governor Crissinger.

o n f o r e n c e will take note

of that.

Mre Hamlin. G o v e r n o r Grissinger, I

move you that

‘he Gorference adjourn.
Mr, Austin, G o v e r n o r Crissingor, t h e Federal R e gerve Agents h a v e completed their program, e n d await a n y
further i n s t r u c t i o n s f r o m t h e B o a r d a s t o a n y f u r t h e r

business.
Governor Strong. I

would like t o call a short meet-

ing o f the Governors a t the conclusion o f this Conference

as there i s one topic o n our program that w e should dispose
ofe
Govermor Crissinger.

M r , Hamlin has moved that w e

adjourne

(The motion being auly seconded, t h e Conforence
adjourned a t 4030 o'clock peme, subject t o the call o f
tho Federal Reserve Board.)


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis