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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

VOLUME 1

- PROCEEDINGS

CONFERENCE

O F GOVERNORS

O F THE

FEDERAL R E S E R V E B A N K S

TREASURY BUILDING
W A S H I N G T O N , D.C.

N O V E M B E R 12-15, 1923

WALTER S. COX
SHORTHAND REPORTER
COLUMBIAN BUILDING
W A S H I N G T O N , © . G.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

PROGEEDINGS

OF A

CONFERENCS

O F GOVERNORS

of t h e

FEDERAL RESERVE BANXS

Washington, D . CG.
Monday, N o v . l e , 1925°
A conference n f G o v e r n o r s
Banks c o n v e n e d

o f t h e Federal Reserve

i n t h e Treasury Building, Washington,

D e Gay

#n Monday, Hovenber 12,.1925, at.10 o'clock, avms
Present:

We P. G . Harding, Governor, Federal Reserve
Bank o f Bostone
Benjamin Strong, Governor, Federal Reserve
Bank o f N e w York.
George We. Norris, G o v e r n o r , F e d e r a l R e s e r v e

Bank o f Philadelphia.
E. R s Fancher, G o v e r n o r , F e d e r a l R e s o r v e

Bank o f Clevelande
George J . Seay, Governor, Federal Reserve
Bank o f Richmond.

uellbporn, Governor, Federal Reserve B o n k
of A t l a n t a .

McDougal, Governor, Federal Reserve B a n k
of Chicago.

Biggs, Governor, Federal Reserve B a n k o f
Sie

L O U L S s

Young, G o v e r n o r , F e d e r a l R e s e r v e B a n k o f
Minneapolis.

Bailey, Governor, Federal R o g e v e Bank o f
Kansas C i t y .

Calkins, Governor, Federal Reserve B a n k o f
San Francisco.
George L . Harrison, D o p u t y Governor, Federal Reservo
Bank o f Naeg w York, a n d secretary t o t h o Conference


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

o f Governors.

T would Likes t o m o v e
w= t h i e
f efrr ea nw c ef ,h
sy

I will s e c ond that: mobiles,
4

fon h a v i n g p s e n cuLiy

eeconced w a s unusnl o u s l y

Governgy iicJougsl t o o k t h e ¢ h a i r 9 s C h a i r m e n o f

am sure y o u will e l l agree
Om

with m s

e

e

s

i

n

g

regret t h a t
ane t i m e 1 :

Gwervtor Strong i s not i n
exoressi:s b H S -eress
Governor S t r o n s b e c k w i t h

rt

wo V

Strong,

a n d w 2 are yery

course, U l c e r t h s elydéine
shsil

slthough I

d o the

we Hill pocesd,

s m sure I

teen
l eKlaman
m e n
Tg a m

OHP
topics o f the Governas' a r o§fran.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

1, C r e d i t T r s n s a c t i o a s

(2)

a n d Pol

cis

Revort o f o p e n m a r k e t i n v e s t ment c o m m i t t e e f o r t h e F e d e r a l .

Reecorve System,
Chairman.

G o ermor Strong,

4

Pe OO bu

t h e

r e p o r t af t x c o m

p e t>e
om

Governor Strong,
pLeSeure;

yjL l e e s e s y u r e

Seturcay mornings
This r e p o r t w h i c h 2 9 8
report b y t a s s s e r e t a r


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

ny osction,

a

Tie

C Ch2irnien
n:

I

of mie
£
would succest t h a t t h e report

tne Federsl Ressrve SysNovember l t h , h a v -

coubtless

e
rng
ka

Gas Casirmens

T h e t

routine report i n the minutes.
Governa S t r o n a : e
o
+
Coyernor

Governor S t r o x g
tir. Harrisons:

Committee Gheizrmen!


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

the J o i n t Conf2rence,
the O p e n
Gis t L bated

t o thie m e n

ine

detail

.2
Wea C o v e r n o r s

s t their

&

Q

Cart
LscA


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

y

a i ee

oO n tne

° a=
by
lee

e ies
D Le)


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

summer

o f 1922

continuous Lizuicstion o f Governren'
b

>] neld o n October

e

i

n

g

meximum o f ., , 0 0 0 , 0 0 0 o n Jun

1

nis t o li~uidsete loans,

ady been mace


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

member
TOis T a n

“Man
aes

weys b o r r o w

given volume o f

3

and n o i n f l e t i o n o f b a n k c r s d i
becsuss
vestment

O o c i s c o u n t s
e c c o u n t

b y menbers
no

iucressed.

l o n g e r

h e d

t o

f cadiscount,
out

O L debe

er

L
WOStTHSH

nevertheless,

t h e result w a x further t o

+
interest retsés
moderste t h e courses of liguidstion, r e d u c e

e c o n o m i c recovery.
firr:.ly establish t h e f o u n idetion f o r


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

revived
o
e
e e
=dant. s a e
snceDtiig some caspartmen
a

“dag operations, W a g s s o f

advences,
The loesns

on

Arove o u r m e r

.

SWoE uN s st

an c o n r r o n t e c

genuery,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

sac ition

urrency t a e n

recucetion of
tOshBe
n

ma}

Bn
ugh

Ar Oe
E S

u

Down t o

PS

a n yvw <&

uch development.

t August, 1925,

nea m o r e t h a n o f f s s t
:,
Shad i

is only since t h e

Gomestic p r o d u c t i o n

nst

in

U

7s
Rse
r e n mPER
Fi
n bude
eh

la
ld imports, t h a t this n e t

the imports
holdings

nee= se!
ra N p a Rie
Coy c e G e s

the s e m e c o m m e n t s

ent eccount,
fnat

y
4.1
L me

o f Govern-

a s ao. ly t o o u r

l o o eWpa
csc o u n t - - t

rates f o r purcnasss o f


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

does u s u s l l y

The market rete for prime
mislly be ehout
1%

more below
differcnice

boy ag A P eee
bey

however,

money

iat 2edvahce

ates f o r bills
Ee Gehl wets b o-bhe.
devel o f our cis 5
LLG

@

our buying

- -S a e
wholly


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

snomalous s n d r a t h e r u n f o r t u n e t e

advances o u r buying rate with merks
a

be dumpec o n the Res<

n e s u s i n g t o o lergs e n a c c u m -

lation, destroying t h e brosd merkset f o r bills which w e h
struggled t o create e n d possibly defe:

1 g othsr purposes o f

policy l a t e r mentioned.

To increase discount rates, e n d t o restore t h e
ential,

i s just a t this time probably n o t justified,

possibility o * harm when business i s
sn incication o f t h e attitude
recit situetion.

On the whole the Conmittee's
Gelay a n y considerable change i t u y i n g

year's developments Giscloss
gome r e c u c t i o n

market r a t e s

i n member

problem unsolved.
System h o p e s

ing investments,

t o offs f u r t h e r g o l c imports

i t will necesdtate m m m selli

by

L o ms

ew o f t h e Reserve Banks, a n d ther
its holdings o f bills, provided,

smounts o f gold arrive

o f courss, further large

T h e result t o the earnings o f some


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

of t h e b e n k s w o u l d

be

to t h e m o f

would s l s o m e k e i t difficult

for bill purchesss,

t o a v o i c e n aavance

i n cese monsy rete

o 6 Gelay i n any change o f ; i t y stems caesir-

wasn w e consicer

Finally, quite enother view is | 1
b
just whet our policy s h o u l d e

h

e hesitation a n d

uncsrtsinty which seems t

notsbly New Znglend, should threeten 6 real setback
While t h e country i s now o n the whole proépé
5
labor guite fully employed, m o s t mills b u s y e n d with a

exceptions

n o sxcess stocks o f goods o n hana -

o

some indica
fscing a slump.

tnsere a r e a l s o

f a growth o f distrust l e s t business i s
S t e s l orders a r e lower, production o f

cotton mills hes recently been reduced, sutoa long
mobile tire business h a s glowed down, a n d w e have h e d
and rather sherp liquidation i n t h e stock maerkst resulting
at
in 2 reduction o f Stock Exchange losens, estimated

5532,000,000.
System
It i s the view o f the Committee t h a t t h e Resorvs


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Oo&

f

5

“

ths. oc o u n t

o
Sa ! yBanxs
s

ECU
CO
)ers

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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Acces stan
Bougnat

Fobruary 1

1

November
December


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

EARNING

Discounts

R
o
s eer

ae

September
Ob tObeF

October

SL


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Discounts

“unicipel warrants i n c luced.
my


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Accenatences

1923
Jenusry
YLO

Pebruery
Ta}

x

April
hiey
June
cuLy
August

ae BY

October

S l

punicipel

ws

STREFT LOANS
AND
BALANCES OF OUT-OF-TOPN
CORRESPONDENTS
(000 Omitted)
Total Street Loang
For account o f
Corraspondents
Balanc?

Str«-t Loana S t r o v t Loans T o t a l

o

f

a

f

n

o

d balancés

r account o f

for account o f f o r own Ac- S t r : + Out-of-Town O u t ~ o f = t own
1923

Jamary 3
10
Psi

C

o

r

r ‘pond nts

S 5 3 5 9 3 7 , 8 5 2 R a c T L , 454
6 6,077
7
9 2 1 5 , 280 a 2 . 7 6 0 ,5°7 9 7 , 3sN55 8
. 4.26

8

alt 7 9 2 , 0 1 2
31 7 5 0 , 2 8 5

February 7

S

0

4

2

1

7

6

B

0


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

#

1 ,606

14
21

1
1

6 7 3 7 1 0 9

3 823

6

5

1

,

8

5

9

8
2

7 273 b o g , 6 6 2 , 7 9 0
1

8 UAT 6 2 0 , 0 6 659,427

8 6 4 7 1 0

5 7 , 2 712,477

1 ,739 8 1 3 , 1 8 2 ' 1,6 7 0 8 5 9 6 6

u
#

5 1530

3

, 407 7 7 4 , 3 8 9 5 7 8 . 7 9 6 667,879

28 7 9 2 , 5 3 2

March 7

7

3 ,O45

7 9 8 , 9 1 7

14 2 0 1 , 2 2 8
21

L o a n s Correspondents _Corrasmonduntes,

c o n n t

z 564 7 9 9 , 8 5 6 :
3

, us

2s $ 1 0 , 1 3 7

07,295

8 3 7 , 6 9 9

€

1 2 , 9 0 1

2

,

0

7

0 , 0 uA5 6

5 , 1 8aNO2 7
2

.

1
a
p
S
t
u
a
t

5

6 5 8 , 1 7 3

; 2 0 1 1 . 358 6 2 , 6 2 3 6 6 6 ,9 1 5 , 2 9 1
g41 150

guy 288

s

7 4 7 9 5 6

237,487

i

831,029

B

821 ,490

e "yR3

a

o

o

n

e

6

2

0

0

3 167

6 7 3 3 8 4
6

4

0

, href

4 53s #1, 6c 6 4 7 5 8 7

gb
,al 6

611,557

814,377 7 2 7 , 4 5 0 6

616,932

767,612 7 7 4 , 7 0 1 1,552, 5 0 7 , 726

756 ,070 7 7 9 , 4 1 9 1,535,469 523,542 1 , 3 3 9 ,

4

754,569
13
20
27

750,120

595,934

745,606

537,345

3
Lo

8,f18
i 5300

1s a

18

658, %30

606 1308

25

636 635

eho res

a
g

619,371
557,277
60,393

535 714

15

a

1955

22

fe 020

29

are

September 5
ce

19
26
Octob=r 3
190

if
oy
3x

* Hightfor all times.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

6 0 0156,
512.851
8
5

587,914
583 535

a e

563 293
559, S31

1,225 ,830
1,199,599
1,225,173

570.337
56az, nay
569, zs :

582,419

1,“976 ‘605

594,151
575,089

1,262,113

7. her

21,406

a 951
535,232

95,759

21,507

a 501
1,255, ont
1,262 p
1,274,52

537, "3

581 314
594,733

1,205, 939

9

o4

ae z


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Gentlernen, t h e rsport
t o this c o n f e r e n c e .

report o f t h e c o m m i t t e e

¥ yori? L i s e

resus

o p e n

rnor Strong: G o v e r n m e n t securiti¢cs,
Tt i g w i s e r t o d o t h a t t h a n t o i n e r s s s e t n e

purchases of bills, which would disturb our rate situetion
w e have
and would defeat t h e distribution o f bills, something

een seeking to accomplish ell taese years.
Governor Herding:
which I

t
suggestedi
T

securitiss,
that t h e m a t t e r

u
wovld

n

e maturities, e n c was

be
of

f h e market, thet it is

nealthy influea

proposition--- y o u hsvs
wiere

we had securities t o
it would heve e very healthy effect i f
we

our money =

having some matured securi-

¢ n o t repurchsse,

i t wou


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

an effect which w e could n o t possibly exert
ket

o u t o f t h e merket---

the c o u r s s

2 G Bes O S

pan

Feacher: i

ey
s r y thorougnily

of

that t h s
who Lesoms

nd nearly o n s
or

C O p e o

C o

ments
smovunt t n o a t

money market, o n c
toexercise

m y r e a l influences,

w e ought t o neve Government

‘curities, s h o r t t i m e certificetes, w i t h whicn t o co i t e

Governor Hariing: G o v e r n o r Strong, “ i c
any s o s c i f i c s m o u n t o f C o v a r m e n t s e c u r i t i s s

Governor Strong: I o a i d not,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

ZO
any s u c c e s t i o n o f p o l i c y
+

b

a

450 n o poticy:. “ s e e n

Say O f

a

b a 2 Ob ney

Governor H e r d i

p

o

l

i

y v e r y f e r back

c

thers wesn't eny coordinsti
Governor Strong:

N o .

A n d thet hed vargous effects we

to erouse objection o n the part o f the secretary o f

in t r o i n s t e a c e s

h e y thought t h e benks h a c

wrote t o t h e bent ;
arnmnent
government

«o

e

the

na

dd +
hey n
1 e c D e t t e r d u iyt b u y =
thasy

seood m e n y c o n f l i c t s
5:

*

woenl Ww ieE « S

bS

A

j

i S UWl S r

sny chengss n o w

if so, when, o r whether


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

4.

it s h o u l c n o t b e , s s w e slweys e x p s c t e d

tion t o b e concuctec

1 t would.

u n i s o n b y tne

conmmittes,
Governor
feet u p o n t a e rebarn?

Governor Strong: I
Wheat w e c a n s a y i s this:

do n o t think
I t has b s o n disclosec
buying b y reservs b s

no m a t t e r w h i c h

i

g too p r i n g 2

sherp recuction f
réserve b a k s

Out

member benks f r o m t h e

in

the purcnesses w
monsy centers, e n c o u r ciscounts
ioney i n the t h r e e o r f o u r p r i n c i p e l m o n s y merksts,
4own t h e Stock E x c h s n s e

a

n scount,

i t recuccs t h e

essier m o n s y

the w h o l e country,

in the monsy centers have s

surplus t o losn.

e t t i e money

s n d t h e benks

f h e t i s ell

it amounts to.
Governor Sseey:

h e t i s whet I

hed

System ecopt a policy which will probebly r e s u

slicht lowering i n the re/turn o n these securi


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

bast force.

i o w

tie rate o n benkers!

SbPOnS:.6

tances?

d

have t e n d s n c y t o
l

because, Governor

the r a t e o n bills

u

A

t

o

h

wpo pee T h

e benks

the s e m e t h i n g i n B o s t o n e n d

York, a n d a I

L money over, e r e not-willing t o
loans s t first.
it o n t h e
something

Exchange,

o r b u y bills,

or s h o r t Governusnts,

back guickly.

SAV re t h e y c a n g e t t h e m o n c y
whe
a

has t h e

T h e y
o r

Thet

the most fluid things

reducing t h e rate o n

in t h e m o n e y markst.

And probably t h e bills would b e offered

Governor S e a y :
freely t o t h e

eserve b m k s .

Governor Strong:

WW

Li .-Wo

NOs

they will g o into t h e merket

d r o u rl buyin
e
ow
tes

o

u

r port.

folios w o u l d g o down.
Do y o u b e l i e v e t h e r w i l l b e

Governor Seay:

sen t h s

R

o n G oPv e r n m e Un s

see

ures Tess

bankers! secentencss?
Governor Strong:

oO

a

cee

ie&

I would exmect 6

which W

LS@® u n t r a t e

e

¢

k & investments
a
m

he

i n

U p


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

There i s now,
gnths o f one p e r cent.

Perhaps I

s not t h e point I

i

Governor Seay:

did n o make myself clear.

trisa

Y o u l d you expect t o

e Cifferential between t h
tern securities,
ing Government securities?

Governor Strong:

T h e y sell o n very nearly the

besis nov, e n d t h i n k srobebly they w o u l d continus
i

Governor 35:

n

k e n y m a r k e d i2iffsrence

would devel op-=Governor Strong: I

do not think so, no.
M e r e w o u l d p o s s i b l y b e some.

Governor C a l k i n s :

thet bills r u n f o r niast

deys.

I f benkers' sccaptences were

three a n d e

n

g i n New York

nelf p e r cent, y o u a r e a l m o s t

certificetes o f inasbtedness selling e t
helf p e r cent.

I

t i s the meturity t h s t counts.

Governor Beiley:

S td

we give t h e

tion t o t h e s e l l i n g o f s e c u r i t i e s t h e t w e h e v e t o b u y i n g

them?

I z other word,

i f w e want t o sell 4 million cdol-

lers worth of securities, ought we to offer them for sele


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Lf -some concert
should w e sel
Governor Strong:

T h e
heory t h e t locel trenssc
it w e s o n l y w h e n o r d e r s

beyond t h e normsl business s t the counter
the bank, t h e t t h e conmittse w o u l d b e emp loyec..
Governor Selkins:

B u t i t wes n o t contempleted t h e t a

benk would b u y o r s s
through t h e cormittee?
Governor Strong:

T h e t i s trué.
tA

Nor:wes

aS

i t contemplsted t a s t orders

as Governor Bailey h a s refer:

t

o woulc b e consunmated

59% o n the understending t h e t a l l transections o f m y
ey

im

portence would b e r e
Governor Bailey:

n g t e n c e s

w e e : Golied over: t h e
worth o f o u r


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

meen before t h e sele w a s mace.

Governor Bsilsy: I
Governor Strong:

y o u not?

Y o u reported a

Governor Strong:

W a y , NO.

Governor Norris:

n

y recollection

i s that trenseetions

which e e c h b a n k w e s s t l i b e r t y t o m a k e w i t h o u t c o n s u l t a t i o n

with t h e committee o r without going through t h e coumit
were confined t o whet micht b e celled o d d lots a n c t o trensactions v i t h member bahks. I

would n o t consider, f o r in-

stencse, i f Solomon Brothers c s m e i n
a million Gollers worth o f notes, t h a t w e woulc b e e t libsrty
without peior consultation w i t h t h e committse.
Tiet i s simply m y uncerstsnding o f it.
Governor Strong: I

thought t h e t w o :

t l w a y t h e conmit-

as b e s n operating.

Governor Norris: I

think, i f you will refer t o the

minutes, y o u will find tast e l l
through t h e committee, except i n the way I say, t i s t is; o d a
lot transactions, sccormodstion t o some locel p:
trensactions w i t h m e m b e r b e n k s ,

Governor (Calkins:

T h e t w e : obviously t h e iatention,

or o t h e r w i s e t h e c o m m i t t e s c o u l d n o t o p s r a t e successfully.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

s m let t o believe b y

Governor strong: I

fesling may hevs icveloped thet this
i t sctuslly 2oes going
ly
Vv then
merkst o n é buying Governmeat short t e r m 46¢
wend thet.
may c o m e w n e n t h s t w o u l c

Governor Herding h e s >

b e «

very

situetion i n

with i t i n cstai l--- b u t
such 2 tsitiation i n
beginning t o telk s s t h
rsel business setback i n this country; t h s t w s
boom;

-Giet. i t i s over now, o n d t o look o u t J o r m e yosriod

of ree-ssion,

b u t o n t h s fisures thst w e hsve a t t h e b e n k o f

coing o n t h r o u g h o u t t h e c o u n t r y p e n e r e i i y , tuist

.

s

t ]

O

o

pessimism which i s perneeting things c o

ego o u r t o t s l
GaALe--oimMeS

banks h e v e c o m e

-- U

ceventy million.

V

e bought


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

reciscount---

but

been moving Sa slong in. c n ora r l y "ey;

easing

=

hes-pot

been any

Aizine
r i s
r e i n S a

t
o hy sr oreseut
e s e n t c cr roopp mmoovviinngg

gon enyvhere.
Governor

think monsy v i l l b e
concerned, t h e menufscturin
soms o f


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Governor

epout thse Sicures c p t e c n s e » t h e rsport which ougn

Tito tae Pear lpine
PULTSe bo. DOPTOy more,
tobe b b o r r o w s

y

l

g lo ie nug g uo de
p until b i l l s

volume er o f b e n k borreving, tacere

upon t h s borrovsrse
9

How. e a n 1 b is,. OU. o s s :
postrowsc.

9

0

,

0

0

9

,
ees

0
p

r

0

0

alee

the R e s e r v e c y s t e m , t o s r e
1.

y a e m b e r banks

c

e

r) t t y

F

o

sprecd o l fort: on gus. p a r t o f member b a r k s
SCUCS

infiyenco

pon

1S MNGi Oaes

A o oper

O L

t i o

p e r r o wiess


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Gio: “ales Oe Sh,
8 very ¢ c

thet i e ao, e n c

w

e

n the

our policy

wiiat b e t t e r tusiness.

I

t

perks psople u p
thet o r e s s r e
“

hos h a d e n influsnee u p o n b u s i n e

go f

i s c o n f i r m e dOar,

s s i t c e n b e confirmed, b j >

Stock B x c h a ¢

f

i

v

i n m y mina,

enormous reduc tion i n
e hunc
millions

Governor
Governor

snd s o m e w h a t

with

ing o f t h e spsculative position i n
constant wihdrewal o f money f r o m t h e Stock Sxcnsnge
us off,

e n d I

SY

think,

>’

a s 2

result

h4 m o n s y r a t s
o f h i c us


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Zz
Vu

I

bhey o f pessimism.
ing

t struek m e thet t h e

e should b e somswhat
time m e y b e m i n g w h e n thet p r e s s r

G

let up, end the ws:

o i t i s through Section 14, undoubt-

edly.
Governor Norris:
vnich vnaderlies e n d p r :

c e s

1

o u

T h e r s d u c t i o n o f our }

question.

8
tines

e

o

n

i n Goverment

obligstions, which begen i n ley of 1922, was brought sbout,
ngistent repressntetions o f
Their obfection t o i t ws: n o t o n
gonersl question o f credit policy, b u t o n t h e
an asbnormol
~sesury obligestions.
tier

i

twould

b

e cdviseble f o r us t o r e s u m e purchesss,
-gision, before w e even s o e n y furT would like t o know
and they: a r e

4
purcnessss, t h a y
on u s
sto L o r e r
high price?


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

econfersncs

ons t h e t

think I

me

vowld esree with G o v e r n o r Fanchsr

thet,

ssscod b y t h e T r e asury D e n s rtment

nt
tis s e c o m p l i s a i p t o c a t e

sosury, b u t probably e s b
Sspowt

t n e ‘$5

so into. t h e

to conditions thet mey

Governor
thet o time

nszt Governors!
tast t h e
nis thet

som

fm)

i


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Governor Hording:

T a s point I wentsd t o meke w e
w

ether w e s h o u l e w a i t until

h

n monsy s o t

e

little bit,

ox}
enticipete ¢
should

little vhnile

“ a t Governor S t r o n g s e i a s

spsculetion.

is trues, t h e t v e r y l o w m o n s y p r o n ;
ma
SL

mignt b e conesiveble t a s t

L

t

e d

tt

2eried i n the letter part o f Jenuer Ly

would c o off very actively, s n ¢
meke m o n e y 2 l l t

buy G o v e r n m e n t s e c u r i t i c s G

2

by p u t t i n g m o r e m o n e y i n t h e m e r

g o t very casy, w e
sccumilsted o u r stock before conditions
wou lc h e v <

opportunity,

$ n case

FUnSWEeY m e r k e t ,

w e s 2

there

LLL

to turn loose sovernment

OFS

Governor Seay:

tustificetion itor
Governor Strong:
I hed n o opsortunt y

t o consult snybocy

in

i v o u ke
ro n o b

Governor

Governor

369¥: f

a

p

= ,

B o a r d w o u l d c o s i d e r that.
rot 7

Lag
bho F e d a r e 3

a

t

pumpors
w e g o into t n e merket for “te.


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

KP ed

vO

6 indicated i n this report, o f bring

c
hen we migit
condttict
ne
to e r i t i c i s m
thet e t t h e f i r s t o f thse y e a

fecotly evident that nov i s t h e
Governor s t r o n g :

too sasy, t h e n t h e
thing t o < o i s t o sell. ¢ t h e r w i s e I

Go not think there

joule b e a n y justification f o r it.

Governor C s lkins:
t+pow i n 3

position t o

considerable influsnes o n the merket; thet L f

i

e 2 ite

into
we should exercise a n y influence, w e must get
iafluence before
no opoortunity wastever e t
situation thet
Tie P e d s

Governor seay:
ime17 w e c o n o n l y influence
w
w e golc o u r Government obligstions
pre hat
“Tien


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

fcetly obvious w o ougit t o asve
of c o u r s s
4

OSvs

heves s

stock o f goods.

Governor Haralng:
tis story.
throum
1

Benks heave

yvernor otrong:;
Lt1 would b e
weulé b
e too m d

o f

Gove
report,

Governor strong

Y o u meson ebout t i s

Governor

the p o s s i
control o v e r t h e

ce for purensse o f

Govermusat

secur

Governor Strong:

GOUrES,
T hsc n o opportunity t o cone


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

ur, ey; S i c m y v i c w

then’ thet 1 t was wissr t o submit f o r t h e coxnmis tse
retion

n o more t h o n
COUMIEE TOS G O

snoulc m e k e 2
tis

ioe ees,

chonge o f policy.

fsvorsbly s n a t

consid

aangée i n policy i s before

thet t a s
a

a polfiey, t h s r e p o r t

irst o f Januery,

baecsuss'

i t contains

n o more

ition, rether t h e n 6s
Governor Norris:
going o n r e c o r d 2 8
ime w e s r i p e
Governor Calkins:
tiat

The report n o t contsining

e construs
w o u l d b

(o=8 Leeiuds t a s s u g
Governor Strong:

encation,

juntona

r o n rslkias:
evoG

Governor 5say:

i s not

FSOCoOr:.

I believe i f Governor Hardi:g'


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

og
ast)

n

a

i
w
o ei
s edadcec
t
iad!
s

thie. conference,

if 4 ¢

€

s an e x p r e s s i o n o f t h e

w

of t h e conference,

vwi s t h e t i m e t o enter u p o n s u c h purchases

lad upon t h e merks
his r e p o r t w o n c e r f u l l y e n d m a k e i t @

i n orcasr

i t would strengtht i f i a b l e move om?

the Federel Reserve System.

Governor Strong:

D i d i t not strike you, ir. Msirman,

the report, t h s t t h e committee, ©

far

function i n t h e premises, h e a

willing t o go, end thet i f there were any more
mmencstions >

mads they should be made b y

Wosn't that the spirit i n which the report

Thst i s ons reason f o r submitting
nere.

Governor Strong:
report m s y r e c e i v e a
on 3

ad:finite r e c o m m e

illuminsting

Governor Seay:
rt i s thet i t may eappes
Getorgl Reserve Banks i n entering t h e money


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

40
to 2 t t e m p t t o

men i b i s p u t u p o n

t to. satssii:
p
n 3 s bstter
a
i 0 1t4 upon Ethe market
2
it
2i O e

r e e

“Ch a
h k s s y o u d eos
thst n o w
(is: b o l d

e n o u d >
b

gree ciye 42% 2

n t oa stitust committee
s
e
-ia

Fed ral Resery
hola u p o n t a s
Governor

6 Bounke


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

iaflusnce?
Governor Calkins: {

think t h a t i s m o r s o r i s s s i n h e r -

t¢ i n t h e f o p r e v e l o f t h e s u g g e s t i o n c o n t a i n e d

i n this re-

S o u t t h e t t h e Vevert: conpeimad

Your recowmencation, Governor Calkins,
is opportune f o r u s t o s t r e n g t h e n o u r

hends b y increesing our open merket investments?
Governor Cslkins:
strongly

s

t h e t , but ret

a

v

e i t within t

of t h e commit tee
Governor >

h

waere i t i s now.
1th
t i s exsctly

a

Governor

Strong both expressed the view that the cormittee
letituce permitted i t t o go,
sforring t o thet p o i n t s n d nothing else.
Governor strong:

A

s s orecticsl metter, i s n ' t i t neces

ot

sary thet s n y redicel change i n policy b e precessc
Wit :
understen nay it eon the Federal Reserve Boara,

ss

a change i n policy, whet i t imeens, o n d how f a r
to g o ?


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

J7SEcec

np e e s

cB
nse

furthers
Governor

such chen ge

thou sh

4,~

n

the t e n o r

would b
e n o obisction t o

then t h e camaittes

a


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Governor Harcing:
the c o n r e r s n a c e .
Governor
ot -

‘

GOVSrnor

comnittes

the m e r k s

ties, ine guch a s the Governmen
in t h e market;
to a c c ptances.

I

t oceurred

t o us

if this committee w e s going t o supervise o p e n
wsrket transactions, t h a t a oart o f taose transsctions

consis ts of for*ign business
susaotity, b u t h i c h y

H

e do, which is negli-

nevertnaeless 3

pert e f the
should

coOnmLtLEe?

re


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

titi.

’smilier v i t h it, d u t

Weta t a s

Jo you, Governor Harding?
Governor Hercing:
conzucted

Governor

Boston s i d Atlante,
neve n o p e r t

i

Governor Strong:
seting u p o n t h i s report,

thet

i t leaves this commit

tn @ somewhet snenslous position,
member o f =

coumit

waich t h e Boston’ Ben
otner f o u r m e m b e r s
to d o w i t h t r a n s e c t i o n s
est.

Governor Harding.

ii

s t


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Sxcept

tie

1¢ 7

Governor

ao i s -éuss i o n

this p o i n t t o m y f u r t n e r e x t e n
Governor s t r o n g :
cane m e m b e r s

a r n o r

N o .

o f
the

c o c

tres


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

N o , t h e cormittee.

Governor Strong:
rno3 5

should heve s a i d t h e commii

1kir T

Benk o f New York for tne c o mitt
transact
cy understending i s that there a r e n o foreign
with Cuba. I

co n o t know whether t h e t i s correct o r not.

Governor Strong: I

do not know. 8

with t h e business t h a t i s proposed t o b e
cept i n a very gensral
Governor Wellborn:

w

a

s snticipated t h a t w e would

buy bills.
Governor Harcing:

Y o u heve s u t h o r i t yto b u y bills,

bills, s n a t a e
but e s @ moetter o f fact y o u S o n o t buy
prospects a r e that y o u never will.

The only bills w e would buy would be

te Boerd's resolution suthoriziag
qeal e x c e p t w i t h

buying bills.
that h e s a n y b i l l s w i l l h e n d

t h e m itself,

A n y
e n a if

went eny eesh they will buy sac s l l ceble.
Tos Chairmen:

A

h
s I T understend G o v e r n o b strong,

r e p o r t i t b e uncergts thet i n t h e edostion o f this


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

then t h o s e tact s r e c a r r i e d o n - b y t h e

I rignt ebout thet, Governor Strong?

G@vernor Strong:

N o ,

in writing thst peregreph.
this cormittee i s t o superviss t h e trensact
ment s s e u r i t i s s

s n d bankers

sa

ene we

Sea o r a

he e e o r y

Sut

tovernor H a r d i n g :

the Cuban business
sion.

G

o not s e e whet there

i s in

c a l l Z o r t h e cowmittse's supervi-

T t i s simply ¢« « estion o f one benk mppolying cur-

rency a n d snother benk msking trousfers.

Governor Strons: I

do not know thet timre is, Gover-

nor Harding.
Governor Harding:

S o far a 8


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

+

mo obiection t o msking 2: report t o t h e conmittes o f w ,
h
lW t
is going on,
Tas Cheirmen:

u n d s r s t e n d it, t h s
eny f u r t h e r

lus Paten&. tact

nothing else?
i n view o f Governor

I thins,

vast i s m e a n t b y t h e

it would b s
pWealte 2
thet I

mignt wis!

Governor strong:
so e t sll, Governor Hercing

A

s nidicrstend

sw York benk i s n o t ints
Governor Herding:
Governor strong:

Bonk o f N o w Y o r k c o n c u c t s f o r

ie

S=-


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Governor H e r i n g :
©
%
ge +
Governor

N o t a bit.
a
<
n 4
t i s perfectly satisfsctory t o

I

a
d
: al w i t h t
159

A

i n : s n y wennSer t e

r e g c

a <
n

d

i i

S l y

Bs n k
b y t h e B o s t o n Baul

business c o n c u c t e d

sendubted for its own sccount without
committee suporvision, i t suits m e perfectly, s n d coubtless
Will suit the rest o f us perfectly, e n d I thought w e migh
game principli
for

t n

b u s i n e s s w h i c h i s conducted
s

l

e

v

e

n banks.

conmittes ought n o b t o superv ise
n

w h i c h t h s y hjs v e n o i n

Governor Wellborn:
Gown thuere,
sot ah

b

the otner reserve b a k

5Ors

I f t h e Boston Bank shoulé b u y
t o b e Undsr> t h e s u p s F v i s i o n

t h a t ougnt

Governor Strong:

+ b c

u
C

a

s
e

i
E

n

e

s

Sa

s for
>
ae

not t h i n k t h e c e amie tee

Governor Vellborn:

o

rticipate

other banks might @
Governor

w

$

s contemplsted t h e
i n their purchases.

f i t did,. i t seens t o meothe same


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

50
principle w o u l d soply t o that that would apoly t o v s
thing else.
1

Governor Wellborn:

s

there haven't been sny purchases o f bilis,
one o f t h e provisions.
bill 4 f you
siven you.

enything

2|

monopoly i a supp n e g i b a w i c u r r e n c y o f

of Atlenta a
44S o w n n o t e s .

D e l l e s wented

i n o n i t but t h e

t o come

Bosrd would n o t let them.

thea r e p o r t .

n the spprovel

o

The Cheirman: a

of

T h e Ayes h a v e b e s n taken,
>a

Governor Strong:

G o v e r n o r Herding h e s msc

Vetlon.
Governor H e r i n g

n

N

W

e

a f

n

e | t h e resery

if t h e committee ascsuned jurisdiction over t n e
actions I

might w e n t t o

reservation

i s contein


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

e reservation i s

n

‘gereph itself.

f su 33

None o

conmittss has

business. >
Fedral R e s s

B o n k of Bo

Boston i s not concucting
Governor H e r

Governor strong:
think i s a

verfectly c l e a r o n s , tess. i f t e
a

ssrve B e n k o f N e w Y o r k

i s t o con-uct business

ror

reserve banks, ths committee which supervises thet busi.css
a
e from the =
shouldb

t h a t e r e Lutcorests

Governor Herding: Certeinly.
Governor Strong:
The Cheirmsn:

T h s

(The motion,

Governor Harding: Z

s s e r v e t i o n i s just this, t h a t

it should n o t epely t o %! w b e n sgency,

i n view o f the
two


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

5e
by the Board's resolution.
Governor i e l l b o r n ?

ioing n o w i s concerned,
Ha
sny trenssctions i n bills i t would probsbl, 5 b

a e a

reserve banks, t h e n t i
supervised

b y t h e committes.
C

Governor

e

r

s inl

t

b snk o r for itself,
for account o f s n y other reservs
expect t o .
{ taink t h e recore

re

teke u p o u r
Toh
be

snnunciated i n
Gf-Juay A n e E U S e s
s n erbitrery c i s
ket p u r c h a s e s |
p
u
r
c
h a s s s .
tribution o
e

j a e

m

r

=

f

t +

‘

Thst evenstss
Governor Bailsy: I

wented t o clear u p i n m y own minc
rom this com5sl o t o f bills a n c h e a


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

lot ted u s

m i l l i o n , a n d wh

two million

d b
l
u
e obligsted

m if, -und°r our c

take
w
tk

felt w e were n o t justified

,noitaut
ws
is

r

too

o
n
r
Strong:

we h a v e a y e r

Ie d ov n o to t hGi n k

w

chased any bills for

i

t

h

o

t knowi

u

that w e were buying for 1

r

o n
Boiley:

That

r

Thst
e vis owhat
G I

metter c e r e u p i n our Jiscount committees,

r oer nho tt it
e wha s w en arbitrary metter.
p the

“Une.

Governor HMsncher:

out t h s participstion w o u l d b e

jnculsed

wos w o r k e d

i n b y t h e banks

: y o u rr situstion
e
I was s u c h

rieh-in reserve,
faaet= L t w a s e n o t

plan thst

edvis-ble, y o u would

not b é

allotted

the

binkbss
+f u e w e r e e l l o t t e d b i l l s

Governor Bailey:
Wwe

thought o u r p o s i t i o n

a it

w e

would h a v e t h e

Governor S t r o n g :

Certeinly.

The C h s i r m a n

i

g

r D r e s siced.for
a
i n tus

ginel plan.
Governor Strong:

And y o u w o u l d b e under

tion t o asceept p u r c h a s e s m a d e u n l e s s y o u

n o obliga-

were
v
inf a c

e

s


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

thet saucy w e r e

The Chairmsn:

D o e s that satisfy y o u w

this topic, G o v e r n o r B s i l s y ?

Governor Bailsy:
The Chairman:

(c} P o l i c y of purcnas
aon
firms.

E

O

P ine

Thet i s s l s o f r o m Kensas C i t y .

put thet question o n thers b s

Governor Beiley: I
Governor Calkins:

L i r e Chairmen, I

would like t o

est a n sajournment for lunch.
Governor Bailey:

T h i s will o n l y

to find o u t whet i s
old people w h o hsve more fsith
than they heve i n enything else, i
s to buy s

they c o m e i n

thousend o r t e n thousand dollars w o r t h

for them, e n d w e sell them from our portfolio,
and I

w n t t o know what t h e prectice is, rhether t h e other

banks c d o t h s t ?

The Cheirmsn:

S p e a k i n g f o r Chicago,

w e d o not in-

do n o t t h i n k

w e should

do


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

ao R o b b e

small wey, I

Governor N o r r i s :

shoulc

oe
Lerisn
e LSS

Governor -say:
Governor Young:

T I went t o report t h a t w e d o

“We hesve s

Governor N o r r i s :

numbe:

of non-member state

T h i s . xvefers

firms.

Governor Young:

T w e s mekineg this 6 x »

eotten o u t o r jebt,

vest their funds,

a n d t h ey v e n tb to
for t h e m i n

hes a s v e l o p e d I n t o
e

nvo t e a5h Tih
4

have i n ta:

n a r cis

ought t o continue it.
o

d
not

banks d o n o t c o it,

o
t h a t i t makes a n y c i f f o r e n c e T O U S .
cae

Governor Yellborn:

Our benk i s likes yours, Governor


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Young.

d e .do i t for incividuals,

1

97 ponds.
4066 n o t p o l y to. certificstes.
1 2 - 5 - LO¥F

Governor “sllborn:

Governor Bailsy:

j u s t wanted t o clerify m y mince

88 t o what the other benks w e r e doling.
i e s

Governor Wellbomrn:

n o t hsvé e n o u g h o f i t t o

7,
nencles i t ond gets t h e cocmission onywey.

Governor Cslkins:

D o e s t h e N e w Yorke B a n k inculce

in s n y s u c h prectice’

Governor Strong:

T h e only trenssctions

faonewS t n G o v e r a n s :
We s e l l a

ings w i t h t h e public.
Governor Norris:

W O U Go: H O b a x

Governor Strong?

N o .


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

t T think t h e Treesur

Governor Fancher;

o f this s o r t .

s t o conduct operstions

2 e u r y o n this

meme corresponcence w i t h the *

have a memorandum here, w h i c h i s a s follows:
ae

“Requests o f this kind which we reesivé are not very
frequent s n d might j u s t a s well b e placed throuch the b m k
h w h i c h t h e i ntd i v i d u a l

or fii r m mainteinsW counections,

such pureheses v h e n mace through t h e

medium of the benk ere generelly more satisfectory."
of thse acerued interest
we received

direct
from ir’ Gilbert, w e could not very well
urchassr

t o h e v e t h e ord:r c o m e t h r o u g h his

Governor Beiley:

Wosthet s generel letter

Treasury D e p e rtment?
Governor F a n c h e r

ome corresponda ce
person

w

i

of s s d u g i t i s ‘ieee:

t o t h e purcnese s n d

h referenc:

t

s s u e t h s t p r e v i o u s l y h e d b e e n sold.
-

i

S

b

a

s

As I recell it, m y memory i s 2? Little hezy o n it, the)
sttempted t o subs
scription.

b e e f t e r t h e closing o f ths sub-

T h e y went < g

for some weeks, e n d then ene


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

BB |

a

h

wULGin,

P

e

e res, 4 - 3

2 n a

v bne

them t o s e l l

executing t h o s e o r c rs

purcneses.

Governor Bailey:
doing i t i n 9

T h e r e certainly w o u l d b e n o objsc~
smell way, i f

brokerage business.

T h e r

aS

oi

stories thst t h e y h a v e b e e n

they c a n come t o U s s n d o s k u s t o b u y t e n tious
vorth

o f securities

f o r them,

Yes.
T think vhere:-is


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

of t h e country,2-:

Government C s

t h e ism ing of esrtificet
securities

in the : 3

bonds.

W

e

e slight:

o e : Bg.

e e

with m e m b e r b e n k s o r s n y c l a s s o f

a c y : ¢

not c o n f i n e :
L*slers.

h

is

‘ e s l w i t h t h e individuel

i n government

P a s

eseling w i t h

country s n d t h e ad-elers i n thsss securities; b u t the t i m s
merket f o r gsovernis coring, j u s t a s s u r e s s fats, w h e n t h e

rest
ment bonds i s going t o b e i n the

Tt

slways c o v e l o p s t h e t way.
Governor

Calkins:

a

C h e irre 1

(Upon motion, d u l y secon:

et l o'clock until 2:30 o'clock p e ™m.

a 8 W e sdfourn,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

pursuant

The Cheirmen:

to

T h e x t & t o p i c o n the

£40)

reconms
tist i t s f u n c t i o n s

heve been

Committee

TImove t h e t t i

u

s

for the

s

pest sorvices.

Governor Bisgs:

(The motion, navi

that c o m s s t o m y
some o f t h e s t a n c i n g conmi
COLWMLEtSES «

O n s committees

committee o n collections; e n o t n e
8 On p'
“gormitt 6

s

t ¢ JISDUTY
. o f which t h e Chairmen i s


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

61
8 conmittze

think m o o f f i

which I

o n insur-

£ your b a n k i s

»

cormittees f r o m t i m s .to t i m e m a k e

reports.
mittse

h e r e t h e report o f tle collection c o m

a e

t o be L

end G o

the pension conmittee, a n d i t eocurred t o m e the:
which mey g o into op: rating prob}

lems, a n d s e forth, thet, where i t c a t

Bonvoniontiy,

it might b e well when t h e reports o f a n yJ
=

ere considered,

t o have ths chsirmen o f the

oregent a t t h e t p a r t i c u l e r s e s s i o n o f this c o n f e r e n c e .

very ecvisebles. that
atother committess n e t e
Gov Srhnoe

rscomicndstions o f ths foirt,
wire committes, e n d t h s non-cash collection
or whetever i t may

w

h

i

c

h committee

consicer
held ¢ meetingo s t the sueccstion o f O r iiller t o
g very important motter; r e c o ; endaetions w e m e l e ,
then

i t

w a s

p a s s e d

b e c k

b y

D r *

H E Li

m

s

W E t h

m d
w e

Ssup<


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

procedure b e followed

securs

not going into < " tail
I think .it w u l d

n e l p f u l t o have t u n

on b e h a l f o f t u s

very helpful t o have
a4. t a e h i n e . . t h e t-te
Il-know t h e t bm. Kenzel,

o :

anxious t h e t t h e e c t i o n o f t h a t committee,
ja i t s report, r e c e i v e cerinite, s o n t t h p o s s
consicerstion;

e n d i f there e r s n o obiections

[OmMO LrOw
session w i t h t h e Casirmenand the Boord,
is

Strst¢r

t o b e here o n

obieetion t u s t plan


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

»zoposed

f o r d i s cussion
a

tions made in X-3807, Mr. Gilbert's letter of Ausust
Bes, to. G o ernor Criss
t o have Mr. Gilbert's ‘Ict-

It would perha.s b e w e

this point s o that w e m e y

-3807
SECRETARYF
O THS

JASHINGTON.
August 5 , P a

a a

ty d e a r G o v e r n o r :

T seke i t t o n s ttasre

n

3
o immediate occasion s t this
?

time t o consider possible sadvancs

h

e d i s c o u n t rates

Fed:ral Ressrve Benks, p n t Y t i s conecsiveble t h e t
some occssion m s y arise i n t h e not cistent
writi

t

o sussest a

to the problem which i t seems t o m e

ciently considered i n the past.
the p o s s i b i l i t y

o f establishing

ms


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

now are process
count rate f o r 2ll classes o f paps
rete f o r bankers a c
nothiig sacred, however,
fest t h e t a
{nto a c c o u n t

y uniform

t h e cifferences
3

clesses o f pepsr.

a d

g

T h e most fundementel

a

a

c i fersn

woich h e s

n o marke
Baabsetans ©

System o f t h e importance:

t h e opsn

Ispsl Reserve Banks, 2 n d with t h e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

65
9 2G

is through
euestion

the t

5 ¥ onsen m s r k
a e tt
an

o f msking

en much progress

V a n e
L o e w

accurately i n v e s t m e n t

u r y

corti-

values o f Tressury csrptifiests

4

liquid short-time

SSctErrUrcs

have e c h i s v e

undersell

ns
Soba e S gp ee
S C C S lL o i e

s

66
were kept u p t o the market, a n d I understend t h e Central
Committee

o f Governors

o n open marlet overations h a s b e e n

giving s o m e study t o this side o f t h e protlem,.

A t any

ate, b o t h t h e Breasury a n d t h e Federal Reserve Banks h a v e
had s u f f i c i e n t e x p e r i e n c e w i t h T r e a s u r y c e r t i f i c a t e s a n d
bankers a c c e p t a n c e s

t o trnow t h a t a n o p e n m a r k e t c a n b e

successfully d e v e l o p e d f o r b o t h G l a s s e s

o f securitics,

and that i f free o f artificial influences this marltzet
will
constantly r e f l e c t t h e truco p o s i t i o n o f t h e s e c u r i t i o s a n d
afford f r e e play, t h r o u g h p u r c h a s o g ‘and S a l e s
o f certi-

ficates a n d acceptances,

t o changes i n the credit situa-

tion.
The f u r t h e r doveolopment o f t h e o p e n m a r k e t f o r
certificates a n d a c c e p t a n c e s o f f e r s ,

i t seemsto m e , t h e best

opportunity i n the world f o r placing t h e Federal Reserve
Banks i n something o f the same relation t o t h e market
here t h a t t h e b a n k s o f E n g l a n d h o l d s
over t h e r e ,

l e a v i n g t h e Federal

the B a n k o f England,

orcdite

t o t e b i l l marizet

Reserve Banks

t o deal, likes

w i t h o n l p t h e marginal demand f o r

T h e o p e n market,

i n other words, w o u l d a c t a s

a kind o f talaence-whecl b e t w e e n t h e b a n k s a n d t h e F e d e r a l
Reserve B a n k s ,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

B a n k s

i n the financial

centers would hold

67
in their p o r t f o l i o s r e a s o n a t l e a m o u n t s

o f liquid short-

time securities, l i k e Treasury eertifieates a n d bankers
acceptances, a n d whon i n need o f funds would sell-certificates o r acceptances t o t h e market before h a v i n g
recourse t o the Federal Reserve Banks.
normally a b s o r b t h e c e r t i f i c a t e s

T h e market would

o r acceptances t h u s sold,

probably through sale t o a n investor o r t o another b a n k
having a n excess supply o f funds, b u t i n the event o f a
real l a c k o f credit,

t h e market itself could a p p l y t o t h e

Federal Reserve B a n k under i t s a p e n market powerde

v O

some extent this i s already what happens i n the principal f i n a n c i a l c e n t e r s u n d e r t h e p r e s e n t s y s t e m , b u t i f

breaks d o w n i n a situation where member banks, without

having recourse t o the market, c a n get funds from the
Co

Federal

Reserve Banks

with t h e F e d e r a l

onthe

s a m e terms

b y discounting

Resorve Banks oustomers!

notes

a n d lino

of credit loans which have n o standing i n the open markct.

Under this system discounts o f customers!’ notes aro almost
always made a t a rate lower t h a n t h a n going rate f o r such
paper, W h i l e sales o f certifisutes o r bhlls t o the
Federal Roserve Banks, w h i c h mast b e regarded f o r practical
purposes

a s o n l y a n o t h o r f o r m o f discount,

w i l l probably

ee made a t about t h e open market rate, unless t h e Federal


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

buying r a t e s f o r
sl r e c o g n i t i o n g i v e n t o p a p e r e n j o y i - g
waat b e s b e s n d o n e

i n the neme

o f

merket f o r a c e s p t e n

it gecms t o me, w o u l d b e
notes 2 n d l i n e o f c r a d i t

fiestes
rate o n c o m
fevor o f p a p e r

eneoursge t h e da-vé
B

benks m o r e s n d m o r s

funds

reletions

m o o r s

fant

A

t t h e s e m e t i m e i t would

thet

tos
market w o u l d keep t h e Federsl R e s e r v e Banks mors o n
mettle i n the d=velopme.:t o f these policies.

69

The s u g g e s t i o n o f f e r s p a r t i c u l a r l y i n t e r c s t i n g p o s -

sibilitios i n case there should b o a situation Galling f o r
an increase i n discount rates, f o r i t would m a k e i t possible t o recognize,

a s t h o official Fedoral Reserve rato,

the r a t e o n acceptances a n d c e r t i f i c a t e s

o f iadebtedness,

: j the
with
proviso t h a t t h eo r a t e o f d iss 8c o u n t

o n sutomera!

notes a n d l i n e o f c r e d i t l o a n s w o u l d tke, s a y , 1

higher t h a n the ostablished rate,

per c e n t

T h i s would recognize

the essential differences bctween t h e t w o classes o f paper,
would b e a perfectly s a f e distinction i n view o f the liquidity
Paper a n d t h e independent o p e n market which i t
would e n j o y ,

a n d w o u l d m a k e t h o F e d e r a l Reosorve r a t e MOLES

nearly c o m p a r a b l e t h a n i t h a s e v e r b e e n b e f o r e

t o the

discount rate o f the Bank o f England, Incidentally, i t
would h a v e t h e p s y c h o l o g i c a l a d v a n t a g e

o f leaving o n e

official rate a t the relatively lower figure, w i t h a
higher r a t e applicable t o discounts o f line o f credit
loans, W h i ¢ n a r e handled ordinarily t y tanks i n practically
all sections o f t h e country a b a r a t e eonsidorably highor
than t h o o p e n m a r k e t r a t e o n c o r t i f i c a t e s a n d a c c e p t -

ances.»

T h e differential would thus accord w i t h the

facts. E v e n now, for example, with a four and a half


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

seh(
51
FS cs

a}
he

lage

oO

ya

s S E Y si

4147

:
e R R o s TS,

4
a&

+
insoceu

nr
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Ly

Uist

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he

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R S E Bdnseens
e

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c ov n

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u LoL

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l u o w.upcYs
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lortno
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e

shat b e

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leasmneee <5+

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wi

te -olis7

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ba I

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he


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

xsniple,
snc s t i
meet t n e m a r k e t

loans.

n o t m u c n more

o n customers!

A n y inersese i n retss

s e enough t o put tae
rete o n custom rs’
gOULC thus Opsrete Most
s@csptsnces

Si

of erscait loans, t o put

s n c ser~

ble ’ b y


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

ing t o sccom:1i

our p o s i t i o n

in

an ¢ p roprists

ne 6
to ordinary conmerciel peper.

rs

2 S L L262 OLS

T h i s w u l d enble our

bankers e n d busi.ess m s n t o c o m p s t s

our

on

o w n

tisl t a rates i s that i t would keep t h e
Benks o n their mettle,

m d require t hLLe m

to k e e p i n t h e closest t o u c h w i t h t h e merkst.
Tressury w o u l d hsavs

to avoid s t 911 costs e n y action o n
would t e n d t o p u t e i t h e r c e r s


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

GOurss, more c o r

entative and would heve t o b efurtner d:velopsd, b u t I
ffering t h e m now i n the laght o f ths
these m e t t e r s w i t h t h e t h o u g h t

t o conside
reel opportunity
£

to their possibilitiss

i S

e o n e ie e

or short-time
tAob
Tressury
notes. G e n e r e l l y speaking,

i t ssems t o

Liberty boncs s n d Tressury notes,
class o f short-time Treasury certificstss o r
scceptances,

n d n o t having


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

+

notes

anc

Governor

ction,

a

y

c

: n o s i r r e H

r
i

e
r
B

o
a
nr

tn


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

do n o t k n o w

the n r e r s n c ® I

Go not know
visws

o f Governor

tre tsble express w e i r
rder, perheps, to limit
Governor Strong's letter, written i n August,
Llioquisl msnnen,

t o Dr,

Pees

SS-cLLeP?

Sars
L A S

Lt Compaeres
ne
L
ide S

tarougn


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

orincipis

some
es t o w
meturit
b
l i u w

a

So T i m e s
the m e r k e t

a

a

j

“

4

O M e o r e ee

c

o


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

ane BrieLeacrs
the bounds

TrSetvely

under

only
he v e r i o u s

the v o l u n

s vS
e tUSh
e ;

S

I

G

TYom U S Somemnet

control
S e r a te

ur

E VG !

Y N O s h Oats y

8s: ths

S

n

the purchase

h o u s e s b o r r o w J r o m these


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

73
upon o u r @oluntary
to s h o w c o n v i n c i n g l y

nvestrent C o m i t t s s

Our o r S r e n se
ciecount

w a t e (Tour? 2 n c s e w e p t

cent)

a n d our buying

(sey four t o four s n d &
by o n e o f t y o c o u r s e

WO. O s u

wey

: >

»

4

+

ur BDUYyLns 7 6 7 8 s
would b e u n s o u n d e n d inflstionery.

heave h o i e t

w r i t t e n r s c o ims taetio

79

in your files -

as I have i n mine -

urging that w o reduco

yates o n bills a n d Treasury certificates,

a s a n alternativo

to our o w n recommendations t h a t both o u r discount rates
and t h o Troasury borrowing rates should b e advanced.
Thore are, however, s o m e points regarding o u r open
market operations w h i c h I

a m hoping t h a t y o u a n d your col-

leagues Will consider v e r y seriously.

L e t m e just skoteh

out the. points.

Ste T h e r e i s a n earnest demand that our policy
should b e a d d r e s s e d

t o prico rogulatione

M

u views h a v e

not changed, o v e n after m u c h reflection, t h a t s u c h a n

openly published and accepted polisy would court disastere
Few peoplo c a n grasp t h e difforence between t h e "general

price level” a n d "prices", that i s individual commodity
pricese

H a d w e been t h e "price fixers" h o w earnestly

would w e have boen importuned this year t o “put down sugar"

and "put up wheat". T h e Reserve System would he tho
tragot f o r e v e r y a t t a c k n o t o n l y a s t o comméity,

but

as:to l a b o r pricos, rents, otc., a n d i n time would b o a s

much abused i n usc, a s i t has been i n print}


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

L e t us stick


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

M Y own reconn

done

c

o

n

r

e

r

-

op2re-

ences, h e s i n fact
b y t h e Committes

tions

ment,
A

eBas alos hues
on
care r i gt

write someta

b e

}1
Danis

York
GOS,

woicnh

borrowing

revenuss,
See B s

becomes 8
Lag

b e n k s

ho aalra

pay

Cy

e

iscount,

ae j

3 ¢eaear-

the

bo roo w=

irectly t h s i n t e r s s t o r i i s c o u n t costs.

ing s s they will t o s s c aj¢ Se

wicaeo o

K

th is t e x
+
4

o n their profits,


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

sl
sak t h e i r c u s t o m e r s
totel a m o u n t

e

paid 2

as

g e e :

lerger
smount b
t l V A O U R

o f losns

t o

joss ibly f o u r or: f i v e t i n s s

ac

s e c u r i t i e s

w e have s o l d -

the

amount is in fact equel to or greater then whetever
erected originally u p o n

very u n c e r t a i n
~

market
sibly t h e mejor pert, o f t h s creait furnisnec t h e
by our oriv-inel purchase w a s used s t thet time b y borrow~
ing member b a n k s

t o repé

As wos the case i n i

u

g b o r r o w i n g s f r o m us,

s a r l y part o f 1922.

B u t t h e fun-

cementel fset i s thet w h e n w e buy a n d increase o u r investment holdings,

s o much o f the funds © s are not spplied b y

u s forms t h e
member benks t o repaying loens t h e n owing t o
me ratio,

s a y four o r five

A n d

eleins p o u t double t h a t ratio.

ll, i t st ones increases borrowings from
licvidete

losns b y many benks, sSpreacine

o r reduce

s e c t i o n s , f

amount i n total equel t o what w e have s o l d t o t h e
multiplied b y the pyremid factor o r coefficient.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

ienorect o r c a cless, pull cowm

Phat .rocess, i s
maximumali s t some ind<finite period following o u r
end w e msy ffeil t o ¢°

1 6 . 6

o

n sccount o f

tio 1o,. t u t 3 8 rere
tion, s n d not nearly
ument i n support o f this dogins
ord, I n t é m a t e l y besring upon
sold movement,

i n ® word, o u r policy s s t o t h e volume o f
4

credit m s y b e made t o

r lus)

n

imports o r , b y jgnorissg t h e m , m a y 6

o r . gold

a g e r a t e t h e harm,

with t h e e n
This I have consistently u r g e d b u t n o t
support

New York benk,

sre s s follows:


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

83

“1,523,516,00
August 1, 1923 ,

“

1

,

0

8

2 ,870,000

Recuction o f Herning Assets
Totsl Gross G o l d Imports

December 30, 1921 t o August l,

Totel Gold Exports,
a
same |

5

es

Net Gold Ineree
without @

9

p
,

6

9

1

1

,

0

0

0

) 379,685,000

f i g u r e s sveileble here, I

shell essume

that Jomestic g o l d production i n this period o f 1 9 months
hes e x e c e d e d c o n s u m p t i o n b y menufecture,

b y s e y vifty mile

Lior d a i c h i s probably too high).

crecit, w e nevs, curing
enc 1923, 3s o m e w h a t more t h a n offset t h e malign i n -

fluence o f gold imports, b y our livuidetion o f some 440
lions o f Giscounts s a d investments.
a

D u r i n g this per-

fod $240,066,000 o f
end s u c h e x c e s s

of

a

n

d vroduction

over

t h

as r e a c h e d u s , h e

ing out gold merely sffects our r e
does n o t e l t e r t h e r e s u l t s

4th.

Cc
S
x

a s t o volune

T h e next factor i n importance, b u t without


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

84
cArect. bearing, =
posits,

ena

n p

conversion o f dsmend into t i m e
1 6 s o m e smount

o f reserve

to

ereeter total o f loans s n d deposits, w h i c h has b e m going
on s t s merry pecs

t i l e s t f e w years.
ne above, y o u will gether t h e t I o m

Ger 9 su-~estion s s t o our policy (not
= new one) w h i c n s p r i v e s s t slong a

wholly

line o f sreument then thet enploysd b y Lr.
which should mcet t h e situstion s o long e s
gein support f o r proposals ( a ) t o incr
or (ob) t o buy bills o r Treesury eortific
ficial ¢

gfereatiel o r (c) t o establish special d i s

(Section 13) rates for bills o r certificstes, lower then
those

f o r cowmercisal psper.

Sth.

I n 911 consid rstion o f spec

C=p S e c t i o n 1 3 f o r s p e c i s l c o l l a t e r a l


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

85
Nothing whatever beyond that w o u l d b
e secomexesoting possibly t o p u t some small premium i n
eper t o which w e extended t h e
that i s the ons which t h e
s b e the lowsst one. ° During
Over C O p e r i c a t

ol ou

solely b e c o u s e o f

was ended, s h e o
ecsuse o f t h e coavenience a n d

smaller risk and 2 x :

i l i n g by mail, ete.

Specific comment on certsin points i n kr, Gilbert's
letter, which I have merkec, might well b e ss follows:
(1) Z o s t of this i s crswerec.

T

h

e

r

e i s sorme-

form rete, hovever, because i t places
resources a t the comvaznd of e l l o f o u r membsrs,

a t the

cod

to esch, whether t h e member offers

benker's bill, o r @ m
hould

b e und:r Section 1

Gilbert i s a bit confus

2 s t o t h e Loadon

Tie Benk of Englend takes “floaters",that is,
‘paper, l i k e bills, Trecsury obligations, ¢svwc.,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

85
its

uniform /Aublisna3. f i s c o u n t rate.

u

r i

i

vate, under Ssetion 13, b u t n o t 2 minimum rate.
of Englend,

uniform

.

T i e Benk

o n t h e other hand, losns private customers o f

‘tein types e t lower retss t h e n t h e minimum discount
rates.

T h e collsteral m s y

lomberd losns) commodities, foreien g o v e r n m e n t bonas, <ctc.

O u r Section M @ cerrying rate

ond the Bank o f #ngland has n o
which c o m p s r e s w i t h o u r S e c t i o n 1 3 d i s c o u n t

should n o t

b e the

ne i n o u r c r e d i t

no
Vito D e y O n

give t h e System
ond dividends,

nst something, possibly o u r o n mis teken policy,
hes f o r c e é

e n unnecessary liguication,

s u c h 9 s would pay off

many hundreds o f millions o f our earning cSssets.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

a7
6 been buy-

bea

ed

w s

all c o m
operets.

m
ees that our membcrs
L will ome to
Se

L

withid u s u n d - r S e c t i o n

ofEnglena in London.
+

OMS

a

d S

1 4 2 s bill nouses d e a l w i t h

T o 2 small

0 e

Strset would shortly heve 8

$4 c o c k y

ALS

U k


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

(F) I

think the member bank should pay
et

rate, v h e n borrowing f r o m us, wnether t h e colleter
Government b o n d s

o r customers! n o t e s .

T n e lower market

for these spsciel securities w i l l b e those e t which
the c c c l e r s u n e r

section 1 4 ,

Trus enough, s n d o n t h e surface
is’ not. w i t h - o u r
tau.

O U l « o S e e u lt

ne gensrel money merket.

T n e t

-y veply t o yours o f t h e 18th.
real point.

I t boils. c o w n

at retes o n l y o n business

reatss apply t o Tressury
ve Should n o t considtr s u c h
monent.

u n a t s v e r t h e srgument m e y n o w

Hag b i e r

0 % 2 1 should b e seriously

We w o u l d 2
smount,

m m e r c i a l money

e a e wa 8

p u t 3 a premium

h

e Tres sury

core


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

89
another s c r a m b l e

f o r Government

We know from jest experience that once thess
preferential rates a r e established, t h e large City, (expecielly N e w Y o r k C i t y ) b a n k s ,
Sromptly e n d f u l l y a v a i l

s * t h e only ones which c a n

o f tha

neither a hold-r nor e ce:

T

h

e country b a n k

i n those luxuries that

to 211 our membe:
the collsteral, n o r 2
4 o r location o f the bank,

Size,

s o long 9 s the member

simply borrows for 3, fixed t e r m under Section 15.
Now, l e t me here enswer yours o f the 18th

the .function of our rote. I

not only still believ
of members! Ziscounts)

e n o u og slow
t
h

down the mechine,

h a r

t e advances of say one per cent


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

90
the m e c h i n e

o r start

i t movin

a
thet the co-siticient i s t o o strong 3

ons i m p o r t e n t r e a s o n w h y I
been o p p o s s d t o
Here, there:

e s e

f u r t i n
r

e

nave

s o f e r t h i s year.

y o u r policy outlines

t o

me f r o m a

First - vie should s i m t o maintein »

ste ble volums o f

4, with c u e regerd t o
(a) I n c r e a s e s o n d asersases i i
(b) A n n u s l o r longsr period reauiremtnits
cresses i n credit volume i n corresponasncs
ineresses i n population s n a procuetion
and consumption -

specisl world recoastruction consic:retions
e netionel policy.
“e s h o u l d c o n t r o l t h e volums

o f member b a n k


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

OL
borrovings, ktespins t h e m reesoasbly s t the needs o f
eountry's sessonel racuirensnts, b u t preventing

of borrowings b y 9 uniform rate for credit extended under
Section 13, “hich Joes n o t encourage o u r borrowing.

oli 6 Bs T g shoulé enlarge i n volume end sctivity a n d
importence, o u r market operations under Section 14, making
thet the meens o f promptly supplying deficiencies e n d
over e n d beyond thet i s

cone und-r Section 13.
Fourth: -

W e should cons1as

n i s f g r s l .rogrom a s

situation

but temporary a n d tentetive, f i t t i n g P r e v a

x
the world b u t ourselves h e s suspenced g o l d pay-

intending

v e c e s t o u r point o f view

the e p p r o a c h o f r e s u m p t i o n o f s p e c i e o a y m e n t

b y important

“es s h o u l d p r o v ptly s s e k m o r e e c c u r a t e a n d

mesns o f a t t e r m m i ig how much s n d w h e n t o b u y o r

to sell uné vr Section 1 4 througa
If the Fed-rsl Reserve Board a n d the Governors o f
s policy solely a s one
to menege o r control t h e total volume o f efiective
and b r u s h esiade e v e r y l o c e l o r aLtstries


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

92

or special consideration a s of secondary importance, I
believe w e cen f i n d the solution o f some o f o u r puzzles
and difficulties.
With n o opportunity t o consult m y colleagues
York, I

i n New

a m unsble t o s a y whether t h e y will ogree w i t h all

of t h e above,

s o please consider i t a n expression o f m y

own v i e w s only.

And please overlook t h e very poor errangement o f

this letter, which i s 9 first creft only. I
facilities h e r e f o r polishing:

have n o

W a r m regards t o y o u a n d

toyour associates.”

I do not know thet “ h e topic,

a s i t sppears o n t h e

Separate progrem for the Governors Conference, calls
for a n y special action i n advance o f t h e Joint Conference
tomorrow, b u t i t may not b e amiss f o r t h e ®niference
to consider s o m e question o f general opinion a s t o what
they think o f t h e differential principle.
The Chairman:

T h e topic appears o n the Joint Con-

ference progrem, a n d i t seems t o m e that everything t h a t

in
might b e brought out will b e and shoud be brought out
the J o i n t Conference.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Sup teei.

J

o

i

n

t

Governor Harding o f

Secretary Gilbert's
lett:r b y G o v e r n o r S s s y - n d G

M i sClO\C e e

n

g

I

t will b e

to h a v e t h i s
conclusion.
mu
cisouss
the

worth

you t h i n k 1 4 w o u l d b s v o r t h while,
further w i t h i t , n o w ?
Governor

thing, cond thet i e the Lnconsist:
buyiag Government
a n d then turning

Open B u r k e t p r o p o s i t i o n ,

ths momber benks ¢ pr:fer~

concerned,

it

boost t o o v e r n m e n t

Thos Cheirmen:
Governor Harding:

S

e

l

e

s
gane,


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

aay
u

e

‘

n
}
ob)
C
)

o l
n o mr s benk
s

new
Li o« 4 s

a
o
c
O a
y i
t o

i1 I

‘Xs “

avd ickSores

o

Wha

s

r oGomes
l k
K
enien
facies &
or ¥

ees

r

impetus

,

1.
k n a b Ui

O

O e n COW,

o

to

pOe a p uS a¥

)

of


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

on thet
5ears 4

nsG

w

S n o

Inc y v e

GACY

“td

SrRaNGn G

would b e s v s i l i n g tacls
t a n

Lleterel o f thet charecter t o
cad
OUs

B

e

t

Ly pecsaus<

policy would b e
methi-~f of l a t e , 1

a

sa


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

fects pointed o u t b y Governor Strong,
Within o u r S$xperfficient t o c o n d e m n b r

y open merket operations;
Government

yUitodisg
a m

w e e n y

“
4 ,
member
b a n k~ s

Wit Ue, e n a

we boucnt t h e m oursslvés.
T think t h o s ?

two

The Choirmen: I

think y o u might

brougnt o u t b y Govsrnor
knowledgs, t n s t w e
ri

S

S

Go VEFrnniEen


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

getting s v a y f r o m it.

I

t seems t o me, too, t h a t

a rate were established i t would stimulate interbrosden t h e market f o r bills s n d Treesury certi-

ag well, because i f the banks could buy those
+ they could rediscount a t a preferent
they would c o

Governor d i n : a

d

heve 2 n uncontrolable

effect upon t h e msrket f o r government bonds, whereas a n
at
open market policy, t h e Federsl Reserve Banks buying

times end sellinc e t times, i s something that w e can regulate.
Governor Fancher: I

think t h e point y o u m e k e S o u t

the smaller member banks making t h e cherge t h e t this preFerentisl rate would ‘

favorsble t o s n d used more b y

ne lerger banks, becsuse those are t h e banks that own
I think s

matter

e brought u p s n d stress
would b
because m a n y o f t h e m c o m p l a i n n o w s p o u t t h e a p w e r

perticulerly i n t h e Federal
a
vantsges which the larger benks,
those cities,
Reserve Cities, e n j o y over t h e banks reniote f r o m

snd this would add just one more objection t o the list.
b very obvious that the
Also, i t seems t o me, i t w o u l d e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

of y o u r G i s c o u n t s w o u l c b e
seeuzed b y G o v e r n m e n t securities.

Y o u would n o t have

ging whst t h e funds were used
you w o u l d n o t k n o w v h e t u e r t h e y w o u l c b s
1a nwin
a t2 a
i tox
y Yae
a

OV

SPiipol

ies
Gees

ywoulee
b
Amat
i v y

p>

eae

the peper i n your portfolio w o u l d

a r e f

5

not indicate w h e t t n e c r e d i t war

think

i n g used for. I

s very serious objection.
Governor S s e
provices t h a t 2

e progrsm f o r t h e joint conference

n
z

e

p sn

the v i e w s t h e t h e v e b e e n s x .

t h e t discussion.

ssed here I

x f o m

sse t h s t they

closely i n s e c o r d t o w h s t h e s b e e n i n m y mind.
that l e t t 2 r

inconsitencies.

divoted t o o p e n m s r k e t operstio-s e n d .
ea e k
UiLS

market,
the open
By
wast h a s b e e n d o n e i n t h s m e t t e r o f e n c o u r a g i n g

back


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

ean

e S S o n ee.
L
t
. think t h e r e w e s
“one

t o

buying scceptences 2 t such a low
si l t h a t

were

merkst.

inthe

inconsistency
should

i n

1

be

waich e a j o y7e d s n opésn m s r k s t .

zt n e

v O C1Less f

papers w h i (

P t 7

5

a

Government
he c o n t e n d s

Governor
Governo x
is n o

l j a t e occesion 8

n

e t o Consider


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

23 t o w u n d e r s e l l
“nc i f t h n s t o c e s s i o n
discount r a t e - - - e n e d

we mipgnt siford a t
till t h e m e r k e t - - - t n e n
there t o
Governor Fancher: A

for ecceptences

vse

wouldb
e the

Governor

d=retions,

mignt compsts w i t h
upon competition c*veloping

merket o p e r e t i o n s


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

nOreover,

end your lines o f c r e d i t

f
Wits be. to-e¥sil o f thet K i n d o

s

n

d put that money
ity:

There-

down e t every

Governor Herding: '

I undtrstood y o u t o

het pswer secured b y Government obliga-

a slip o f t h e tongué.

cs mot buy thet psver i n the open merket.
Governor Ces likxins:
contravention

h

ofthe

y


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

102
ate i s that i t would keep “ h e Federal Reserve
Bsnks o n their msttle a n a reguire t h e m i n sll their opera
in t h e c l o s e s t t o u c h w i t h t h e markst.
29

Pedsreal R e s e r v e S y as t e m s n d t h e Tressury w o u l d

h s v e tb

as

utmost c a r e t o w a t c h s n y srtificiesl i n f l u e n c e

the merket f o r certificates o r sce ptences,
sll cost a n y action o n their pert thet would
tend t o put cither certificates o r seceptsnces o n 9 false

keep t h e Federal Reserve Bonks o n their
s t o have. them cngsgs i n open merket operations
t

at <« fluctuating rete
in fsvor o f scceptencss

Governor Har@ing:
in t h a t w a y a n d t u r n i

e

t e e t w e s i x Ss

s e c u

a

y e i t h e r one.

Y o u los? control of it entirely
t

o t e n t h o u s a n d m e m b e r benks.

Governor Seay:
consistency.
tir. Herrison:

ifferential b y r e

2

4 G i s c o u n t rete.

¢03s s e y thet, n o t i n s o meny worcs, b u t he
‘ite remedy,

i t seems t o me, w o u l d b e


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

count

o n cwstomers

Ate

*4fferentiesl

MSnGoOr
¥*

I

BO P

o

i n fevor

o f paper which hes inde-

Ee

t

S 0G L G

e

“a

e

r

runds ,
temporarily
Governor Harding:

tember o f i919, w h e n v e
ivisory Council,
that t h e T r e s s u r y w o u l d h a v e n o o b j e c t i o n
Paste

O n Cont

Government

Governor N o r r i s :


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

System, 377,000,000 were secured b y Government obligations
I

end 439,000,000 other bills discounted.

n other words,

there vere not, f o r preeticel purposes--- l e t m e s e y that
“uilte a r l y half e:d helf.
sucsestion, s p s l i e d
camp le-

to

a n d I

nzey o f illustration,

ste should b e made 1 1 s n d s half per cent on
secured
T

Goveriment obligations o r benks i
siEe ig
o n our:
littls affect

Governor Celkins:
Governor

u

i

it would slight j n e r e a s e

t would

r e t u r n o n dis countsd

w o u l d slichtly

Norr }

a

t vould

i n

slightl

i t Z o r the moment, b u t i t
becca s e

would s o o n b a l s n c e
tendency t h s t h a s b e s n

l u d e d t o hsre

ag l e r g e esmounts a s

c

h

e

a

p r a t e peper.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

sarly
rely

remember t h e w o r d ending t h e p! s é - - - b u t o n o p e n mserket
operations. I

doubt, tsking s

long view o f it, whether

we c o n rely incressingly o n open market operstions, because
with whth
ba. ESS

w e can
T h e

volume of Tressury certific: outstanding--- end bear in
mind s

rele :

m

e s t u f f a n d does n o t

jnelude Liberty Bonds o r loug time trecsury notes, i t i s
t h e volume o f short t e r m

for s h o r t m e t u r i t i e s - - -

is b o u n d t o b e constantly c e c r e a s The volurie o f benkers! s e c e p t a n c e s

it. i s smsller t h e n i t wes,
yords, o r e o f t h e t w o c l a s s e s o f

is bound t o constently c = )

g 6 , 3nd. t h e other
so t h e t
thet w e e r e

not i n 8

t

creasingly o n
dearesase i n volume,

Another thing--- i t has been very truly

o rely i n kely t o


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

LOG
the Government s

:

s n d bills would b e held prin-

cipslly b y the City Banks e n d thet they would have a n
s°ventage over t h e country banks
rate were esteblished, s n d t e r s
Strong's letter t o interest p a i d t o the Fedcrel Reserve
Banks a s 9 tex o n the profits
banks,

o f t h e borrowing member

I n the case o f the city benk, whose loans pos-

sibly would n o t

rete veaid t o u s would not b e e@

e fer from @ tex,
it certeinly w o u l d b
it w o u l d be = ¢ o n t i n u a l p r o f i t t o them, i f they were
able t o put with u s lsrgsly sxclusively t h e psper 3 t the
lower rete.

tretion I

A

put

t t h e same m

s

smell c o u n t r y b a n k s


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

LO”?

never l e n d s a n y m o n e y u n d e r s i x p e r c e n t a n d i n m a n y d i s -

tricts i t gets seven, eight,

o r a s much a s ten, s o that i t

doesn't s e e m t o m e that y o u could call borrawing m o n e y a t

five per cent and lending i t anywhere from six to ten,
a very heavy t a x o n the profits.
me sound either,

t o s a y that a

I t doesn't s e e m t o

member b a n k should worrow

from u s a t the same rate regardless o f the kind o f paper
thet t h e y put u p with us.

I f w e rely entirely o n the credit

of the bank, o n the theory that o n e bank i s entitled t o
say thet i t s credit i s a s good a s that o f another, w h y d o
we e x a m i n e w i t h t h e c a r e t h a t w e d o t h e p a p e r t h a t i s

offered t o us, a n d why d o the other banks ao, e s i

pre

sume they d o - - w e d o - - more quickly request excess

collateral from a bank whose paper w e know little o r
nothing about than we d o from the bank that offers u s
first rate paper? I

question whether i t i s true that

the lower rate, i f established, would b e the only effective o n e , b e c a u s e

o f t h e skrinkage,

that I

have a l r e a d y

alluded t o , i n the volume o f paper that would take t h e l o w
rate; I

doubt whether t h e banks would have anything like

enough o f i t t o d o a l l o f t h e i r p o r r o w i n g

o n t h a t paper.

Even i f they did, hewever, a s a return for the low rate
that w e would b e getting,
paper i n o u r portfolios.

w e would have distinctly better
N e i t h e r can I

say that i t would


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

greut d e a l

o f .differen

Curpose.. t o r W i e c h o u r f u n d s w e r e
banks b o r r o w i n g f r o m
2

dred a n d s e v e n t y e i g h t m i l l i o n d o l l a r s

o n Government o b -

lowest
I suppose

i t i s fair t o assume t h e t whatever t h e

figure w a s a t i t s l o w e s t p o i n t , vorobadly

i n the f a l l o f 1 9 2 2 ,

it r e p r e s e n t e d t h e a m o u n t t h e t w a s r e y

being borrowed t o

carry G o v e r n m e n t o

a

t

a

n

d

.

a

t whatever increase

there hoes been i n that, t h a t f r o m that time t o this, r e p resents m o n e y b o r r o w e d

o n Government o b l i g a t i o n s b u t u s e d

for o t h e r purposes.
Governor C a l k i n s .

W h y

d o y o u reach that conclusion,

Governor N o r r i s ?
Governor Norris.

B e c a u s e a t t h e rime

the presumption is, a s I say,
that Was-needed. at. t h a t t i m e

C a r r y

Government

continual process o f absorption;
triotic

o r other urge

unquestionable

t o us

n o one has h a d

t o b u y Government securities


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

about

bb =

t o means. that. o

i b l y a t least one-half

of w h a t h a s b e e n b o r r o w e d f r o m u s o n Government s e c u r i is b e i n g u s e d f o r c o m m e r c i a l p u r p o s e s .

c d o . not

see how any bank can tell, a n d i f they cannot tell now
they w o u l d n o t b e a n y w o r s e o f f i f t h e p r o v o r t i o n s w e r e

changed.
Governor Calkins.
Oris

T h e y would b e t*is m u c h worse

I f your borrowings o n Government securities w e r e

doubled you would know just half a s much a s you now d o
not k n o w ,

Governor Norris.

B u t i t doesn't make m u c h dif-

ference whether y o u know a quarter o f the story, o r

three-quarters o f the story, i f you @
Governor Harding.

n o t know

i f the loans amounted t o 350,000-

000, and y ou had n o line o n the use i t was p u t t o you
would b e n o worse o f f i f the loans t o the banks o n
Government s e c u r i t i e s a m o u n t e d
no k n o w l e d g e

t o 10,000,000

a s t o what t h e t e n millions

I do not follow the argument.

n

a n d you had

w a s used for.

k t h e larger volume

of loans o r advances made b y F e d e c e s e r v e banks, t h e
purposes o f wrich camnot b e know, t h e greater r i s k there
is o f their being used f o r improper purposes, a n d i t

seems t o m e t h a t i s obvious.
I n the case o f t h e e i t y banks

Governor Norris.

obligations a n d
almost a l l o u r l o a n s sere o n Government
the c o u n t r y b a n k s d i s c o u n t t h e i r customers!
us.

“ w e know what

O

m e r a

n k s haven't s o t a n y aopre=

advanced h e r e t h e 5
ciable a m o u n t

n the theory

o f Government

s e m r i t i e s o u t u p a n d trere-

fore i t woulda not change t h e s i tuetion.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Governor S e a y e

Governor N o r r i s , t h a t

I s i t n o t altogether yrobable,

i f the Government securities w e r e

not i n t h e market, t h e r e w o u l d b e a

far greater demund f o r

bankers! a c c e p t a n c e s ?
Governor N

have n o d o u b t o f that, y e s .

I

Governor Harding.
about t h e a i s t r i b u t i o n

M r . Norris svoke a

o f Government s e c u r i t i e s

were c e n t e r e d

more o r less.

moment

i n the F e c

e t the

. 1 Reserve banks

distribputec.
N o w , t h e y have b e e n pretty well

Tt s e c m s t o m e y o u a r e a d v o c a t i n g 2

»volicy ‘ h i c h w o u l d i n -

o f being
vite t h e r e v e r s e p r o c e s s a n d t h a t i n s t e a d
con
distributed t h e y w o u l d b é c o m e m o r e a n d m o r e
in t h e banks.

Y o u w i l l remenbdex G a l e t w o s é

before t h e war, w h e n nearly a l l o f the consols were

w a

l


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

21a
bv the national banks t o secure girculation a n d there wasn't

for them anywhere else. t h e i r value was i n the
circulation vrivilege.
a special p a p e r u n d e r a

I f vou have a

form o f security,

very l o v discount rate,

i t seems t o

me t h e tendency i s going t o be, inevitably, t h a t t h e distribution spoken o f just n o w a s being a

fortunate thing,

is g o i n g t o g o t h r o u g h t h e r e v e r s e »rcecess a n d t h e r e i s
going t o b e a n u n d u e t e n d e n c y o f t h e p a r t o f the.banks

to get ready t o load u p o n Government securities again,
because t h e y would s a y i f they ever needed t o borrow a n y money
they h a v e s o m e t h i n g

o n which t h e y c a n porrew a t the cheapest

rateée
Governor Norris.

Y e s , b u t this suggestion,

as I

understand it, i s confined sdely t o short t e r m T r e a s u r y ~ ” °
certificates.

I t d o e s n o t i n c l u d e L i b e r t y bonds.

Governor Harding. I
Governor Norris.
Governor Harding. I

understand.
I t does n o t include Treasury notes.
know, b u t w h e n t h e Treasury cer-

tificate becomes due, there i s another issue t o take ibe. . =~:
place a n d t h o s e b a n k s t h a t h a d s h o r t t i m e m a t u r i t i e s

would g o ahead a n d bid for more s o a s t o keep stocked u p
all t h e t i m e .


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Like
Governor Norris. I

think i t would lead t o a n

increase i n the holding o f short t e r m Treasury certificates

o y t h e banks,

but to a

very considerable e x t e n t

ILthink t h e y would take t h e place o f investments t h a t
they make n o w i n »onds that t h e y h a d better never buye
Governor Seay.

M r . Gilbert h a s repeatedly dwelt

upon t h e d e s i r a b i l i t y o f a

certificates.

natural m a r k e t f o r G o v e r n m e n t

C a n i t be, i f a preferential r a t o were made

for those, t h a t i t w o u l d n o t t e n d t o c r e a t e

a n artificial

market?
Governor Norris. I

never a g r e e d w i t h hr. G i l b e r t ' s

view that that was a detriment t o the Treasury Depart:ent.
I think there i s a difference between a n artificial market
and a market that i s what r o u might call t h e result o f a n
extension

o f some favor.

A n artificial

market

i s o f course

an unjustiviable thing, b u t a market that i s a little

higher than i t othervise would b e because o f some special
would n o t c a l l a n arti-

favor o f vrivilegée a c c o r d e d t o i t I

fiaial markete I

vould s a y i t was a

market t h a t reflected,

among other things, t h e existence o f that favore N o w
_if t h e y w e r e e x t e n d i n g t h a t f a v o r
industry

o r to a

to a

certain c l a s s o f

certain g r o u p o r c l a s s o f banks,

be o f c o u r s e h i g h l y o b j e c t i o n a b l e ,

i t would

b u t i f the favor i s o n l y


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

113
effect o f
extanded t o the United States Government, t h e onlv
to reduce o u r tames.e

Governor Callrins.

Y o u s a y i f w e were t o extend that

favor t o a group o f yanip - ~ don't you agree you would be
extending i t t o a group o f banks almost entirely t o the e x clusion o f another group o f banks?

I n other words y o u would

extend i t t o banks generally located i n large cities that
could afford t o carry securities a n d d o carry them?
Governor Norrise I

ten million dollar

think that a

pank t h a t c h a r g e s i t s c u s t o m e r s

a n a n average

o f five a n d a

you
quarter p e r c e n t a n d t h a t p u t s u p w i t h y o u p a p e r t h a t
ean l i g u i d a t e

i n the market

a lower rate t h a n a

i n t e n minutes

i s entitled t o

3 2 5 , 0 0 0 b a n k that puts u p paper w i t h

you y o u c a n n o t l i c u i d a t e

i n aie, S i e e e

Governor Harding (intercosing)

B u t I would like t o

remind vou, G o v e r n o r Norris, w h e n speaking about artificial
Ir.
markets f o r G o v e r n m e n t u r i t i e s , t h a t lir. MeAdoo a n d

Glass s o l d certificates ourely o n a n artificial basis,
of
pased o n a preferential rate, deposits a n d all that sort
lir. Houston, u n d e r adverse circumstances, t r i e d the
policy o f s e l l i n g t h e m o n t h e n a r k e t
Melion c a m e

at a

higher rateée L i r e

i n and followed thet v e r y same cairse

madea v e r y > r i l l i a n t s u c c e s s , J

think,

a n d has

o f h i s w h o l e operations.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Now, t h i s suggestion o f Lr. Gilbe1 Pinge ta, oieBeSee”
to out the Treasury certificates b a c k o n a n
a s s o f securi-

simply Decausse n e é

banks vould Diy, B O T o m s s
the i n v e s t m e n t r e t u r n y -

h

é solvency o f

s i m p l y ‘for t h e

reason that t h e r vould h a v o r e f e r e n t i a l r a t e
CO DOrrows,

Governor Callztins.

I t i s not necessary

a A A S e OMe GO. T G tre 8

t o devine

f e c t l y obvias

that t h e v v o u l d b e p u t o n a

sn't a thing

an

preferential

s t will create a n arti-

permanent i n v e s t o r s ,

o r i n the

hands o f the banks, a n d if t h a t ~olicy w o u l d not encourage
a

an increased holding o f these b y the banks, then I do not

From

certificates w o u l d b e i
ne g i v i n g a

i ”

3

o m m e r c i a l purposes.

T h a t wv

1 r a t e o n commercial demands


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

on the Federal Reserve Bani - Governor Norris.

T h e y vould b e offering u s better

collateral, c o l l a t e r a l that stood o n its o w m basis.

The Chairman. N o w , gentlemen , we have discussed
this matter, a n d i t might b e helpful, I
helpful,

think i t

i f w e could have, f o r the »enefit o r the confer=

ence tomorro\’, a n expression o f oninion o f this body. T h e
coneensus

o f oniriion i s n o t i n f a v o r o f t h e s u g g e s t i o n o f

irs Gilbert, apnarentir.
Governor Calkins. I

move i t i s the sense o f this

conference that i t i s not e~pedient a t this t i m e t o establish
a preferential r e d i s c o u n t r a t e f o r p a p e r s e c u r e d b y Govern=
ment o b l i g a t i o n s

o r pankers! a c c e p t a n c e s .

The Ghairman.

T h i s h a s t o d o vith a

rate f o r t h e d i s c o u n t o r »urchase.
discount

o f bankers! a c c e p t a n c e s

o f saper secured

Govermor Calkins. I

preferential

o y Government

certi-

purposely confined i t t o re-

discounting.

Governor Seay.s. I

will second that motion, lire.

Chairman.

( The motion having been duly seconded i t was
carried.)


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

LES
Govermor N o r r i s a

O

G e. 10 a. ie C h e

e i

LOnLe> V s a i e «

eae g u s t

L E ’

is submitted “ y S a n

Powermor Calieinsa.

f i e aes

4

discussed t h e n G
ead

M A T .

i

a

c s vniech I

r n t r o n s

! 5

t n e

o

i s »vresent.e
D 4

ection

W e

until
y eds
GovL
ernor

Interpretation o f ‘ord "Borrover,"
in Section 1 5 o f Federal Reserve
Acte inline recuested b r Yederal

Reserve Board b y October,
U o n f e r féGovernors.
e no c e ©
under t h e heading o f un=
finished susiness.

I t nas ¢

successive c o n f e r

t

i

o

n the progra

m

e t h e recuest
dering Gon. of t u e
Reserve. act.

The Vhairman. I

cen s a y

c h respecu t O tia

advice “ e p e c e i v e d w a s t o
the m a t t e r

mittee a n d that i s where i t rests.

t o i t s l a w come-

I t i s unfinished »usiness


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Bg
I think should b e dealt w i t h a n d t h e Board a s k e d f o r t h e

Governor Fancher.

o u l d i t b e consistent, L r . Chair-

man, t o again renew o u r request f o r a n interpretation o f the
word?

The Chairman. I

think i t vould bee

-overnor F a n c h e r e

h e n I

move lire C h a i r m a n t h a t v e

repeat t h e r e c u e s t t h a t t h e B o a r d g i v e u s a

ruling o n t h e

matter of interpretation o f the word "borrower " in Sece#
tion 1 3 o f t h e F e d e r a l R e s e r v e A c t e

would second that.

Governor Biggs. I

The m o t i o n h a v i n g b e e n d u l y s e c o n d e d i t w a s unanimousl:

T h e next tovic i s 1-H.

“he Chairman.

H. Lethods o f dealing v i t h member banks
waich are constant a n d excessive bor-

TOWELS.
That i s submitted b y Philadelohia.
«

1
Governor Callins,

I s not that also covered i n the

conference Program?
Lire harrison.

Y e s , i t ise

Governor Fancher.

h a y I inquire o f Governor Norris,

this topic, w h a t h e has i n mind.
who suggested
DOO
Governor N o r r i s e I

would l i k e t o g e t s o m e i n f o r m a -

tion a s t o h o w t h e o t h e r R e s e r v e B a n k s a r e t r e a t i n g t h o s e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

banks which never l e n d money below s i x per cent a n d are contantly »orrowing f r o m u s a t four a n d a half p e r cent f o r
the »urpose o f having more money t o loan. T h e i r paper i s
satisfactorye

T h e y a r e chronic borrowers, b u t their »or-

rowings d o not a t a n y one time become excessive,
do, t h e y a r e s p o k e n t o a b o u t i t ,
reasonable f i g u r e ;

t o bring t h e m d o w n t o

e n d ther j u s t r u n f r o m a

an u n r e a s o n a b l e f i g u r e .

o r i f they

reasonable

M v cuestion i s what c a n b e done

with them?
gan s a y for Chicaro that w e have

The Chairmane I

at all times endeavored t o avoid that condition, a n d have
avoided i t p r e t t y g e n e r a l l y , e x c e p t wuLlth respect
the b a n k s

t o some

a n d have n o t been able

that become overloaned

paw themselves oute ‘ J e believe t h a t t h e banks s
be e d u c a t e d t o u n d e r s t a n d t h a t t h e y a r e e x p e c t e d

in their o w n loaning »over,
“ear,

a t least during a

a n d t o avail themselves

Reserve S v s t e m f o r s e a s o n a l
and w e h a v e n e v e r failed

gentiglgyr othervise,

t o operate

yortion

o f t h e crecit facilities

o r other temporary p u r e

t o r e m i n d t h e banks, e i t h e r

a s the circumsta

h a v e seemed to

justify.
Governor Norris.
they w o u l d n o t » r o f i t

S u p :ose v o u have educated tiiem and
b y t h e education?


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

LL9
The Chairman.

T h e n w e suggest t o them that t h e y get

busy a n d i n c r e a s e t h e i r c a p i t a l , b e c a u s e w e a r e n o t g o i n g

to loan them capital year after year, except curing emere
gencies.

Governor Norris

I f vou s u g est t o them t o increase

heir capital, t h e n t h e y will s a y they will have t o increas
their l o a n s t o a i d t h e i r c u s t o m e r s ,

a n d they will b e -orse

off t h a n t h e v a r e n o w e

Te Chairmane I

d o not s e e that a t all,

O f cmrse

if they a r e going t o let t h e customers r u n the banks, I
can u n d e r s t a n d h o y t h a t

Governor B i g g s

x I f i t i s ror legitimate needs,

using i t for »vrofiteering,
\ them h a v e
sell>orne.

Norris, a n d i t i s along t h e
Governor Calkins. I

think G o v e r n o r Norris!

ine

quiry needs some d e f i n i t i o n before i t is D o s s i b l e t o dis-

cuss ite F i r s t i t is "Methods o f dealing with member
1.
which s r e c o n s t a n t a n d e x c e s s i v e b o r r o v e r s " ?

Y o u

define what o u mean b y "constant >orrower",
eee °
Canter a e ,
f
aril: what is meant by "excessive borrowers

t

Governor Norris savs that this r t i c u l a r bank, o r those


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

yanks that h é has i n mind, n e v e r l e n d money
six v e r a e s

a n d borrow f r o m h i m a t f

if t h e y a r e a d m o n i s h e d

1

a half, b u t

t o recuce t h e i r loans

to &

reasons

able amount - - I think h e used the exact words “reasonable
amount" --~ and then there i s the cuestion what i s the reasonable a m o u n t f o r a

constant b o r r o v e r ?

I

s i t a n y more

reasonable f o r abank, under s u c h conditions ‘described,

to

borrow 1 0 per cent o f its capital t h a n i t i s for i t t o
“

porrow t w a n t y ?

n

t is a

a

tion f o r t h e b a n k h e r e f e r s
Governor Norris.

reasonable a m o u n t

t o as a

Roughly,

i n »vropor-

constant b o r r o w e r ?

f o r t h e »urpose

o f ansver-

ing vour question b y “constant” I mean "continual", a° bank
a3

which

i s seldom

o r never

and b y "reasonable" I
of its basic line.

out

o r deot

t o t h e reserve bank,

would say raighly, n o t i n excess

T a k e a

bank that i s scarcely ever below

constantly a v o v e i t , a n d t h e b a n k

w o u l de
d out

the time i f i t wasn't continually spoken t o
ajout i t e

Governor Bigss.

t s there a n y eviden

borrowing for a profit, o r are they using i t i n the community.
Governor N o r r i s .

they are doing a

T h e y are

bigger business t h a n they have a n y right

to d o o n their resources,
30-6

O

a n d they f i n d i t profita>le t o d o

f course w h e n w e make a

fovr a n d a

half p e r cert


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Lek
han: t h a t n e v e r l o a n s b e l o w s i x p e r c e n t v e a r s
ng o u t a n a p p l e t o t h e n a n d a s k i n g t h e m n o t t o e a t i t .
Covernor Fancher.
Governor N o r r i s refers.

‘ J e a l l h a v e t h e s i t n e t b o n to*vwhich
h

e banks apvarentir

conception o f their “roper u s e £

the borroving

of the Federal Reserve banks. ‘ i e have reminded them o f the
fact t h a t t h e r e i s a

basic l i n e , a n d t h e m e r e f a c t t h a t t h e y

have g o t
have g o t that i n their minds makes t h e m think they
a Itne o f c r e d i t “ i t h t h e T e d e r a l H e s e r v e b a n k s a n d t h e r

oroceed t o adjust their loaning policy t o that particular
ag thouch= t h e y h a d a n additional

t o month;
situation o f that s o r t c o n t i n u i n g f r o m i ¢ m o n t h
and w h e r e vie Z i n d 3

i t

A

Y neignoorhood that a r e

b y core
lating t h e i r l o a n s i s t o f i r s t m a k e i n q u i r y

resvondence a s to the »articular condition i n that banks
thas makes i t apparently necessary f o r them t o continually
oad
b a n k across t h e street i s
norrow while their neichnboring

in a n d o v t occasionally a n d nas s o m e period o f liquidation,
under t h e same conditions prevailing i n She particular 1 6 =
:
a
p
l
e to ;
;
.
chere v e a r e / u n c o v e r t h e S a CRa8bL0n 311 6
letters,

w e next t r v t o get them into t h e bank

situation overs

I f that does n o t vork, t h e n t e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

122
set o u r e x a m i n a t i o n d e p a r t m e n t

t o get some examiner

t o work,

to drop i n the bank a n d g o over t h e situation very carefully
and find out what their policy is, a n d what their ideas a r e
of their borrowing facilities a t the Federal Reserve bank,
O r course y o u un-=-

and i n what manner t h e y a r e using it.

I n many cases o f

cover @ good many Gifferent situations.
course r o u wide h
facilities f o r profit.

the f a c t that t h e r a r e using o u r
G o v e r n o r Norris

do n o t l o a n b e l o w s i x p e r cent.

some banizs that charge seven a n d eight.
develov

h
t fact
m e n t i o n e de
W e have i n Ohio

W e had a situation

i n o n e o f o u r i m p o r t a n t c e n t e r s a l o n g i n May, w h e r e

we had a bani: with seven o r eight miliions o f resources
yorrowing f r o m u s a considerable amgint a n d went o v e r t h e
basic linee ‘ T h e other banig, curiously enough, w e r e liqui-~
dateds

j e h a d s o m e c o r r e s v o n d e n c e w i t h them.

kmow ‘ u t t h a t s h e r e h a d b e e n a

shirt o f v u d l i c f u n d s .

comes about a t certain seasons o f the rear w h e n one bank m a y
have h a d l a r g e country deposits,

and a

dis ri>ution m a d e

to various o t h e r a c c o w m t s a n d t h e o t h e r b a n k s g e t t h e de-=

posits, a n d that bani: which loses t h e devosit will >orroW.
Finaliy w e got t h e president, a f t e r this exchange o f letters,

t o c o m e u p a n d g o over t h e situation.

h
t situation.
admittece

H

e very frankly

H e said, " I have b e e n looking


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

123
over t h e condition o f the Federal Reserve bank, a n d I find
7 our i n v e s t e d a s s e t s a r e low, a n d I

thought p e r h a p s I

could

do vou a good turm b y borrowing o n paper o n which y o u make
four a n d a half v e r cent, a n d I have gone o u t a n d taken
on a

large l i n e o f » a p e r a t s i x a n d a

two ner cent."

hed:

p e r cent, makings

“ h e Facts were h e had sone out and solicited

trade a c c e n t a n c e s f r o m a

c o r n o r a t i o n wreich k e p t a c c o u n t s

in o t h e r cities, b e c a u s e

i t w a s v e r y l a r g e i n i t s operations,

he h a c s o n e t o t h e - t r e a s u r e r

o f that c o m p a n y a n d vicked

five o r s i x h u n d r e d t h o u s a n d c o l l a r s
and brought

t w o p e r c e n t spread.

i t in, m a k i n g

him oromptly.

o f commercial p a p e r
“ / e cured

H e did not have quite the »>roper conception

of what 7 s borrowing »orivilegs t
a the Federal Reserve bank
entitled h i m to, o r how h e should u s e then.
r

v h a t has been

banits where o t h e y a r e steady¢ »orrovers,
manner o f handling
u

that i s t o find out t h e ldcal situation a n d what t h e y a r e
doing v i t h t h e i r funds.

correspondence,

~

@ have a d o p t e d t h e »orocess o f

a n d having t n e m come i n ana talk about it,

and also t h e >rocess o f using t h e examination department.
Governor Norris.

T h e panks I

have i n mind a r e banks

that haven't d o n e a n v a r t i c u l a r thing O f that s o r t , ‘ u t
simply that almost every account o n their books i s a »orrowing account, particularly t v o o r three banizs whose customers


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Lee

vic meckalae
ceepee
Cila

Ho vend: a n d sinew ead.
legitimate c o m m e r =

difference. a
rhposition - fhe Vnaimman,

b u t t h e y are. overloaning.

They a r e overloaning,
think ~ o u r p r o b l e m i s

wish vou, w o u l d

spect t o b a n k s t h a t a r e o n e r a t i n g
bneir o u n t o a n i n e D o r e :

and advice.

steacily,

what they need

is

T h e advice t h e y should receive
erroneous
.

the F e d e r a l

conception o f

Reserve

s yn

i s »~roperly used

Governor N o r r i s .

rv

w h a t

If t h e r e
course

the

is i n dangerous
condition c o n s t a n t i y a n c t h e i r p o s i t i o n
thére

i s a

i s weakened,

and if

little » l o v o f vind, t h e r might b e &ble t o take ce.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

125
of the situation b u t t h e y might not; whereas i f they operate
more c o n s e r v a t i v e l y t h e y couadd c o m e t o y o u a n d v o u w o u l d h a n d

them o u t oromptly liberal credit accommodations, w h i c h y o u
pannot d o perhaps under t h e situation y o u mentionede
Governor Norris. e

told them that... I

have

gone t o t h e o f f i c e r s a n d h a v e m e t t h e H o a r d o f directors
of t h e b a n k a n d I

have s a i d a l l t h a t t c t h e m i n t h e p r e s e n c e

of their officers, but I rather suspect after I leave the
president o r the cashier says, "Yell, now that has blown
over, l e t u s get d o v m t o business a n d g o get some mores”
Governor Young. I

to have t w o answers.

think t h e w a y t o handle t h a t i s

O n e would b e yes a n d the other no.

‘Yhen they make application for rediscount one answer is
"no", a n d then when they want the reason give them the
reason.

Governor Norris. T h e n you mean you would refuse t o
loan them?
Governor Y o u n g .

Refuse

t o l o a n them,

l e t their reserve

go down, a n d then they could not 10an a n y more money because

if they did that they would get i n difficulty with the Comptroller o f the Currency.
Governor N o r r i s . I

have d o n e a l l t h a t b u t I

do anything because h e says there i s no penalty.

cannot


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

L26
if r o u have: s e n t
°
xaminer d o w n t o t h e m to g o o v e r t h e 1@aB granted

Federal Reserve Bank?

Governor Norris.
Governor S e a y .

I n one case w e dic.

D i d o u c l a s s i f y t h e loans,

t o see
mn

fal
if thev were loaning i n that directions loans wWeich were o f

a nermanent nature?
Governor Horris.e. I

Gover o r Seave

d o not I m o w about that.

case o f t h a t k i n d a n d w e s e n t

+ 6 had a

= £

our e x a m i n e r d o r m t o g o o v e r t n e l o a n s a n d c l a s s i f y them.
They c o n t e n d e d i t w a s a l l n e c e s s a r y »yorrowing, t h a t i t w a s
all f o r c o m m e r c i a l nurposes.

i t vasn't a l l commercial »orrow-

amine i n t o i t a n d ‘'e 1
ing .

and

to
it
or. @

a

l

t
h

et

l f o r commercial purposes.

h
f

. ¢ s e n t Our m a n d o v m t o ex-=

T h e n w e wrote

e cashier a letter asking him t o read
directors;

t o r s a n d ther “ormed a

h e d i d read i t t o the board
cormittee a n d came u p t o see

us a n d w e had a very nice satisfactory perfectly pleasant
interviews t h e y agreed that the p o l i c y o f the bank h a d been
wrong, t h e y agreed t o s e e that i t w v c o m m e n

a n d they have

corrected i t .

Governor Norris.

Y o u r story i s the same a s mine,

Governor Seay, except that last sentence.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

L27
mor Young.

A f.

O U Nave = a
j

reserve h a s become devleted,
and a d n

l o anwvt? e

u

s

bank, w h e n i t s

t k e e p s o n loaning

b o t r y t o reduce t h e i r b o s n d o r
rheir o w n d e v o s i t s

wake

o r resources,

m e d a w a n d find that v o u have a

u p

thousand d o l l a r

i

t

e

m t h a t i s unpaid,

man down there, a n d vou find that

i

s

and

s

u

e

or casnier's check o n “ou = ~
rovernor Callzinse I i x e cheduenan., what I

hope t o

bring o u t from Governor Norris h a s been more o r less brought
v2

4

b

out b y G o v e r n o r I a n c h e r

a n d f that
there

i s t t f a c t - o m Vaich

i s n o hard fast

ZL

o r calendar

a
s
Y e
“ h4 e
t h e rS a y vant:

ive borrower o r 9 constant norrowere ‘ i e have
district that have been » o r r o w i n g three rears
not
they a r e constant » o r r o y

v

i

e have others t h a t a r e

borrowing f a r i n excuss o f their basic line, b u t a r e not
excessive jorrovers.,

I t i s ansolutely necessary

t o apyly

judgement t o every individual c a s e i n order t o determine

whether a bank i s doing something t h a o u g h t not t o d o
in following a necessary coursee J

think

to try t o set u p anrthing

controlling borrowing b y member banks,

d


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

TAVIS V E

D

L C O g r D E L T A A DS
i
s

This t o n i c o n t h e j o i n t c o n f e r e n c e

has b e e n assipned t o lir. Wills t o lead t h e discussion, a n d
sort o f procecure program t o b e followed b y

I have here a
xaminers.

A f t e r v e exchange l e t y

and fand I v

an examiner, t h e examination department
is called o n to make a n i n v c a t i c a

means o f ceter=

mining erent
Le

h e nature o f the manegement o f the bank a n d its

credit policy.

he general character o f loans, a n d classificavaria:s i n c u s t r i e s e

officers a n d directors individually
or t h r o u g h a r t i l i a t i o n s a r e u s i n g t h e a s s e t s o f . t h e b a n k
verond »orudent L i m i t s é

srover investiga
polications f o r loans, “ o t h i n determining t h e solvency
the a p p l i c a n t a n d t

t

o «mich t h e »roceeds a r e t o

Dube
aig “ h e t h e r t o o n s a r e m a d e o n

standing o f the apvlicant i n
purpose

o f i n c r e a s e d r e v e n u e to. t h e t a
be ‘ j n e t h e r t h e b a n i h a s a c c o u n t s

o f some large c o n -


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

nie tuatLon

d e v o s i t s .

“nether t h e b a n k

g

e the -reciscount r a c k

Reserve b a n k t o » r o v i c e r o r
Sis o r m c u s t o m e r s
investnents

i n the communitr

ieloans/for t h e sole nurvose o f making a
Governor R e a .

t

L o d d Lkice “bo

lowed the »rocess o f revieving t h e borrowing
ror a ~eriod o f three
r averace Dorroving, m o n t h b y month t o r three years,

m S o r inspection.
e
ing b a n i i s r a t h e r short;
Ba|
} lone

"

“he merioryb o f the »orror.

i t does n o t reeall

t h e ~ e a r ~reviouvs.

“ i e handle
us.

that

Y o u asked
mo)

Governor Callsin e

have certain

hove n o n e o f

GCaliromia,

uf

1

@ law,

i t i s perfectly »~ossivle t o

estavlish a bani o f any lind whatever.

T e r e

rettine t h e c a p i t a l overnight. A

L s n o cifti~
s,

bank w i t h a


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

130
in l e s s t h a n t w o

sian etteMonat

That i s a s a n
extreme g a s e a s I

think
w i c h s e e m e d t o h e incorrect,

we f o u n d ap-‘lications

t o

were

it .ildlv. W e / o b l i g e d t o tell them that t h e u s e o a t h e
or

Federal R e s e r v e bani:, ‘f:ich w a s r e a l l y f o r t h e » u r p o s e
was
competition a n d n o t h i n g e l s e i n t h e “ o r l d - - o r o f i t
not a

b u t competition w a s - - that t h e u s s

consideration,

imof t h e F e d e r a l R e s e r v e B a n k f o r s u c h c o m p e t i t i o n w a s
orover a n d t h a t
the b a n k »~aid
2
in
u n d e r s u c h cond:

Governor G a l k i n s .
here

P a i d i n jold j

w a s n o t r o w b l e a b o u t that.

pani, estanlished

t was a

i

vresuriee

I

national

i n accordance i t h t h e

the Chairman. I

mean t h e subscribers t o the cap-

had t o n o r r o w t h e m o n e y i n o r d e r
Ware t h e f u n c s

t o »sut i t i n o r a i d

ith

Governor Callzins.
e.

Coes t h e t

n e e

tovernor F a n c h e r e
pani w i t h a

half a

b e
i e h e d similar cases.

million c a p i t e l p a i d i n a n d t h e y r e -

discounted v i t h u s within sixty a

T h e r were -Oing o u t
>


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

151
business,

o r talking care o f business soi-

the o n e n i n g o f t h e bank,

u s i n g o u r funds t o

new accounts i n »rand n e w lines.
The Chairman.

T h e amount o f the borrowing o f a

does not signify i n itself excessive borrowing.
had a

verry extreme c a s e recently.

T

e had a

that was presided over b y a man who Occupied a very
i n one o f o u r citiese

position

Errort

a s

made

t o

f r o m o u r b a n k e n d t h e y went t o greater

secure a c c o m o d a t i o n s

extremes thah i n any other case i n our district. ‘Through
our: o w n i n v e s t i g a t i o n

n
o
l before, t h a t
w e had a s c e r t a i n g jg

there w a s a tendency o n the vart o f soreone interested: 4n
h

the baniz t o r

i

s yvosition a n d w e immeidately b e g m

curtailing t h e bank's loans.

T h e y never were very high,

put w e c u r t a i l e d t h e m a n d t h e c r a s h c a m e w h e n i t w a s

foumd that o u t o f >robably five huncred o r Your hundred
and fifty thousand loans t h a t this individual w a s using
directly a n d indirectly something like t w o hundred a n d
fifty f i v e t h o u A

when t h e crash
a radius o f

ICOe bey

T

o h n e were

h u n

a d miles

h

e result

w a s that

v e r y many banks

t o whom they were not

heavily indebted, b u t t h e y were o u t o f our debt.
Lr. Fancher h a s said, t h e condition
pect

t o a l l t h o s e banits t h a t a r e s o - c a l l e d c o n s t a n t


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

132.
parently e x c e s s i v e b o r r o w e r s . I

agree w i t h G o v e r n o r

T h e s e cases

Galkins thet n o rigid rule c a n b e laid d o m .

have t o be treated i n accordance with the attendant circumstances.

Do vou wish a n y *urther discussion, Governor Norris?
Governor Norris.

T h a n k you, N O e

. e then come t o the next topic - - I.

“he Chairman.

Lis S h o u l d a | ine o f credit b e established
for b o r r o w i n g m e m b e r b a n k s , a n d , if,s0o,
what s h o v l d b e t h e m a x i m u m a m o u n t ?
well disIt s e e m s t o m e t h a t t h a t h a s b e e n p r e t t y

posed o f i n the discussion o f the former topic.

Governor “iellborn.
that o f G o v e r n o r N o r r i s e

with quite a

l i y story i s very similar t o
‘ . e G O have a

good d e a l o f trouble

number o f the smaller banks.

difficult t @ handle them.

F o r instance,

I t i s extremely
i f they g e t u p

vorrovings
to a certain amount, w h i c h w e call excessive

when 8
which I call u p t o capital and surplus - - I think
u p t h e actual
pank g e t s u p a v o v e t h a t a n d d o e s n o t vut

commodittes that i t constitutes excessive borrowing.
Fancher s a y s i t i s a

misconception

using t h e Federal Reserve system. I
any misconcoption.
the credit,

o f their vrivilege

G a ernor
of

d o not think there i s

T h e y a r e w e l l educated.

T T h e y want

b u t t h e r d o n o t w a n t t o i n c r e a s e t h e capital

stock o f the bank.

T h e y demand t h e credit a n d i t i s a


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

133
Tt i s a

serious m a t t e r

t o

theVv credit o f a bank, especially «hen they

paper, elicible »aper, which they say is good “aper
Wich apoarently i s good papers

The Chairmane B u t vou check them u p o n that?
Governor “iellborn. Y e s e
to see t e m a n d t o have a

“ i e send a n ¢xaminer d o w n

meeting w i t h their board, a n d

n they g e t beyond
e
h
t h e proper
point t hwe y s a y the waar
Tee warns t o

borrow a n y more, but their deposits

clined a n d they have g o t t o h a v e more moneys
Yiovld nodt t h a t

Governor Bailey.

Governor ellborn.

be a

f00d reason ?

A l l their deposits decline every

year and t h e y imow t
The C h a i r m a n .
undertake

banks

I t vould b e *

gmpractic
e
rable t o

t o establish definite lines

i n adwmace. ,

O 6 f credit

f o r member

You h a v e f o u n d t h a t t o b e true, h a v e

wou not?
Governor ‘ e l l b o r n .

B u t s u p ose

how much they c a n get this rear.
thate

W

c

o

m

e i n and

H o w c a n w e answer

e s a y i f v o u have s o t c o o d paper y o u c a n keep o n

g t on m e e t
i tht
c
s
i
e n e end s ou f y oou r customers.
would
would b ei unlimited.
m
i 1

Y e Mo ! e b e e n d e p r i v e d o f t h i s
vro«

gressive r a t e vhich, I

thing.

d That

think i n p r i n c i v l e

i s a n excellent


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

134
Gor ernor Fancher.

D o r o u think t h e r a t e would controll

the s i t u a t i o n ?
Governor -.elborn.
tion t h e b a n k s

Undou' j l y , because

S D E shies

i n our sec-

B e aals ore c e n t f o r t h e i r l o a n s

and t h e y b o r r o w a t f o u r a n d a half, w h i c h m a k e s

i t very

attractive.
Governor Fancher.
MOO. 6

I f vour r a t e w a s 7

ver

COMbrOL.. Lime
Governor “jellborn,

I f i t w e m t u p t o e i g h t p e r cent,

if the accommodation w a s a t eight p e r cent there vould b e
10 orofit.

‘ s e cannot d i f f e r e n t i a t e o n d v h e t m a t e u n d e r t h e
in

act a s i t a n c b u t w e may make’ disferent rates o n the clas
that i s o n t h e vrimeé.

Govemor Seay.

T h e y a r e not sensitive t o criticism ,

Governor iellborn.

‘ i e say,"Well, <~our statenent

hey sav, “ l o , t h e f a r m e r s v a n t l o a n s a n d

to supoly the farmers." [

supnvose they tell

thinge

Governor searv. e

have » u t o n a limit i n m m y caséSe

Governor ‘Jjel70rn.

T h e n t h e y write letters

Congressman.

t o their


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

155
Perigo mweams *
notice

“hey have v o r r o v e d e x c e s s i v e l y e
w

o n t h e m t h e t i t is. not-ocnur “ u r p o s e

any more noney.

J e have cone that i n some cases a n d
V e r y frecuently, i n dealing w i t h

been effectivee

and a p o l y f o r r e d i s -

Sonde Tan additional volume of paper,
for the officers t o come i n and explain the particular
snecial discount.
make v e r y
much

f a r e >

i n o v r distr

i

ner c e n t

Governor Sear.

2 5 - Seinics 4 0 o i e

ii

o u r loans.

D o y o u imoi vhether t r o b a n k s a r e

loaning t o other country bani:s?

Governor Jellborn. Y e s . M o s t o f that i s going t o
country b a n s ,

t h e advantages

vovlying t h e non-member »ani:s, W a s
Fecleral

T h e y are

e n d s o m e m e m b e r b a n k s probably.

Reserve

The Chairman.

o w s h e m trroeu: gh I L E

C O R O

s p o n d e n t Se

i p , é l i b o m i ’ s t i e stlon- i e s n o o l a 2

banikx
line o f c r e d i t b e e s t a b l i s h e d r o r p o r r o w i n g member
eds Ar:

w h a t should

be

believe

t h e maximum. I

t cuestion
a,

los -

-

|

O V Oh

te lo
estaplished
f o r borroving member banka";

the s e c o n d D e r t

o 7

7

-

2

t h e ansver
S

e

.

:3

“ a L i e tO F “ C R e a s

i s i n the nega

t


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

136
needs

line

n o further

o f
te e m
urle c o n ~ -

Pz 3 C r

ent

W

h

a

~w

a g abe

t

think

Governor Bailgy. I

that l i n e s h o u l c
we r e s t r a i n

adaitional coéllateral.
s

long 4 s

ce,
aAD

eer
ey

ty hLs

e
B

le papere

e1
a ag B c aio

“

6

good u p t o i t s

indors

think

a very g e n e r o u s

yee c h e r oC

vyg o a b o v e t h a t v e m a k e
the t i m e y o u

up e x c e s s
excess c o l l a t e r a l

feet y e e e e
several t i m e s t h e

don

‘he Ghairman.
made
a Line

Governor S e a y .

Yes,

Governor M a n c h e r .

:
(The 110 tion

carried.)

of

second t h a t .

having b e e n dulr

seconded

i t vas vnani-


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

137
The Chairman.

o n the »rogram i s J.

‘ T h e next t o p i c

. Payment o f Gold Certificates.
| for d i s c u s s i o n

o f the extent

t o which

in e a c h
T h a t t o n i c w a s v r o vosed

ir, Earrison.

bben b r o u g h t o u t 0 3

open market investment committee report, t h e oneration
hes. F a L e l y s u c c e s s f u l l y o f f s e t t h e i m v o r t s

a
s
the credit standpoint i s c o n c e r n e d , ’
offsetting t h e infhationary effect o f imports
system i s concerned, A

o f

vear a z o last aucust

in order t o offset t h e imports o f gold,

ofr published aterients of gold” holdings which relate
escect x

to t h e cuestion o f our reserve “er-

centages a n d not t o inflation, t h e N e w York bank undertook
the

2olicy o f p a y i n g o u t c e r t a i n l i m i t e d a m o u n t s

in g o l d c e r t i f i c a t e s

t o o u r o w n m e m b e r banits.

o f gold

I n the

period from August, 1922 t o October ist o f this year, that
is a period o f fourteen months, t h e N e w York bank valid
out 3925,000,000 i n gold certificates.

. e received during
+

the same time o n deposit ,»588,000,000, t h a t i s the a n ount
of certificates t h a t came b a c k t o us, making
ment o f 3557,000,000.

D u r i n g t h e s a m e period t h e impor

into t h e country were »240,000,000

s o that ‘'e


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

a

i n rovnd ‘dollars, t h e amount o f t h e impor

offset,

an a c t u a l f a c t , h o w e v e r ,

received

the gold

during that same veriod

whole w e n t u p b y o v e r f i f t y

i n the system a s a

I n other words, while o u r net disburse=

million dollarse

ments exceeded t h e net imports b y a hundred a n d forty

Oe

o

e

_ _e

h o l d i n g s

million, t h e systems

e

f gold went u p about fiity *our

think i t was.

million, I

i n continunig

Governor Strong i s very much i n e s t e d
of g o l d i n s u f r i c i e n t

c u

i t

t

o offset

The difficulty that v e are having i s thet
in New York
ie h a v e o r a c t i c a l l y r e a c h e d t h e s a t u r a t i o n p o i n t /
inspite

o VUfas 0 8 7 -

d4soursenents t h e reserves

continue t o ;.0 u p probably B

a n d that

i n the syste m

aemtHe
u y sno f

e c a

“eg o u t o u t g o i n t o o t h e r r e s e r v e b a n k
are n o t r e i s s u e d

b y those reserve bankse

se i s

The inebes/aue fo the fact that the Treasury has deposited
the same veriod certain amounts o f free g o l d
and t h e n w e a l s o h a v e t h e a c c u i s i t i £

the d o m e s t i c p r o ~

dollars.
duction o f gold, s o m e fifty o r siz m i l l i o n s o f
Governor Strons asked m e t o incuire o f the conference whether
they would look with favor u p o n payments o f certificates
Ae

to the amount that t h e y a r e received o n deposit i n the
respective

reserve banks.

T h a t would enabl e

us t o


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

;
1
3
6
o f putting :
‘_
continue o u r »olicr/fout certiiieates i n suiiicient a

ount

Ps

1d t o k e e p t h e ‘ o l d r e s e r v e

o F the

fairly
ees f i x e d amount.
Governor Calitins.
conference

»rogram

i s also o n the joint

‘ i s tovic

t o D é Giscussed

o v Governor Strong

and

the universal custom t o v a y
1d w h e n t h e y m a k e a

O u r

snecialrecuest f o r i t .

vractice i s t o p a y out s o l d certificates received
>

the repvlar ca:rse o f ‘usiness a n c f i t for. circulation.
no efvort t o accumulate them. ‘ T h e amount received
apout thirty thousand a week - If t h e r e i s a n v v i r t u e

i n pvaving

in order t o offset imports, w h y
not take steps t o make t h e Federal Reserve note a
eertifieate a n d ~ a v t h a t o u t .

gold

f o r instance, i n s t e a d o f

vaying g o l d o u t p u t i t u p i n t h e f u t u r e

t o offset n o t e s t h a t

you have outstanding a n d treasury redeemed notes. ‘ h e r s
one. f a c t o r auGvut t h i s t h i n g i n w h i c h 6
dark i n . a g e n e r a l way, ‘ T h e r e a

States currency,

-are BLAS d e t h e t e s

l a r g e anounts

o f United

o f all kinds, including fFederal R e

notes, hoarded a n d i n circulation i n foreign countries. ‘ie
Lo
know f r o m S e p t e m b e r 1 7 ° .

t o J u l y 19,

w h e n w e had 9


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

140.
on this through permits f o r shivment, t h a t 3 1 0 , 0 0 0 , 0 0 0
currency was sent o u t o f t e country.
amount

252,000,000

t o France,

went

vrobabdly

50 nav o u r soldiers a n d the rest vent t o other countries.
A million s e v e n h u n d r e d

th :

c

t

A a

o Russia.

Since t h e restriction o f permits h a s been removed, e n d that
was d o n e i n 1919,

i t i s c u i t e »~robablg t h a t t h e a m o u n t t h a t

has sone o u t o f the country i s very much larger then during
do

the rears 1917 t o 1919.

T t reminds m e very much o f Mr.
ww

‘arburg's v l a n which h e h a d when h e came back f r o m S o u t h
an0ut a n i n t e r n a k i o n a l s o l d r e s e r v e
6 f it, a n d s o m e o r t h e r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s

was c v i t e f u l l

- - he
of

some fopveign c o u n t r i e s w i t h w h o m h e h a d t a l k e d a b o u t i t
thought

i t “as a

g o o d idea, p r o v i d e d t h e l r c a i n t r y w o u l d

carry the sold r e
keeping a

e ; nobody was entnu

t i c about

sold reserve i n some other country:

events w e h a v e

b y force o f

i n this country a n international g o l d r e rve n o t e i s h e l a a b r o a d v e r y

L Believe

a r e

t o g e t h e r v i t h other forms

of United States currency - - you c a n s e e where t h e notes
would b e noarded i n preference t o the actual gold, because
they c a n b e t r a n s p o r t e d

a t less expense

- - but the d a y may


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

141
come “hen this vast amount o f Federal Reserve notes, t h e
whereabouts o f which w e d o not l m o w a t the present time,
will c o m e b a c k i n f o r redemntion,

have a

a n c t h e federal Reserve
fal

very large amount o f those notes o u t ‘ill

be very much embarassed i f i t h a d p u r s u e d apolicy o g Dayin g
out . ° s o l d , t h e r e a s
own note,

i f i t makes a

sold certificate

o f its

i t sets aside t ht
e g o l d f o re t h a t a n d si s o n s a f e

ground.
Governor S e a r .

n

o

t

h

i

n

g t o risk.

Governor Hardinge
The Chairman.

Gentlemen, I

do not think t i s s a m e

subject appears o n the joint conference program. ‘ h e r e
is a tonic, " G o l d movement", a

general statement regarding

the movement o f gold during the past year into and out o f
the country,

a n d into a n d o u t o f t h e Federal Reserve banks.

That m a r b e identical. I

a m gming t o a s k around t h e

and a s c e r t a i n w h a t b a n k s a r e »vaving o u t g o l d a n d t o what
eet
e x t e n t

®
Th i e a i t
r

Calkins.
o
n
r

topic 4 , Gold hovements,

Oe n page
v
o
2G0

m
a

the j o i n t » r o g r a m ,

a , general statements, a

D s

paving out gold certificates, Mir. Perrin and Governor Biggs.
ual

e Chairman.

‘ t h a t i s rour pleasure

i n regard t o

I think i t s h o u l d b e d i s c u s s e d b r i e f l y


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

142
So far as we are concerned, there
holding i t o v e r u n t i l t o m o r r o w .

‘The

the joint session, where t h e
board i s usually present,

i t i s pretty difficult t o get

any definite action o r expression o f the opinion o f Gover- u

nors a s a whole.

I t was put o n this program before v e

Imew i t w a s o n the joint program.
think y o u will f i n d o n the program

The Chairman. I

the v a r i o u s t o n i c s h a v e b e e n a s s i g n e d t o s p e c i f i c in-=

in which case I
vill b e n e c e s s a r y

think i t i s not expected that

t o g o around t h e table o n a l d these

NO0intTS »
understooa

lire H a r v i s o n . I

Governor S e a y .
conference

oninions
and I

thate

“ h i s tonic has been discussed

o f Governors

m o r e t h a n once,

o f t h e Governors wereexpressede

think I

b y the

a n d the individual

I

am, t h e o v e r w h e l m i n g j uuc g m e n t

f I

a m correct,

o f tvh e G o v e r n e r s

paying o u t g o l d a n c g o l d certificates, e x c e p t

sold certificates w e r e demandede

neChairman.

I T think vou are right about

Governor Seay, b u t s i x months h a v e g o n e b y .
Governor S e a y . hire. G i l b e r t b r o u g h t t h e c u e s t i o n u p


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

143
judgment vias e x p r e s s e d b r h i m a t that. t i m e s
wear
H
i
a e
t h ha5 t f ia se U r e .
Harrison.

e

Lis

s

1

c a m

C e t
6 au DA s p £

e

r

a

con=

A t

n e r a l i y t o vay o u t g o l d certificates.

Terence

that v e r y t i m e , h o w e v e r , G o v e r n o r S t r o n g r e f e r r e d
fact t h a t c e r t a i n i m n o r t s

o f gold that h e

this country, largel y
desired

t o offset

t o the

w o f “ere

i e

for effect, w h i c h

i n our statement

o f reserves,

Itwog rather general:y understood, m o r e o r less informaiiwe £
mally,

h

in

vote o f the conference w a s not t o
li et thh e
e 6

nar o u t a n d distripute

t h e m that t h e N e w York bank would

out f o r a while t o offset t h e «mount o f the g o l d
Therefore

u pbaeests
w e h a v e c o n t i n u e d t h a t » o ° ’ l c l yp

the »resent time. Governor Strong
continue i t , c e r t a i n l y for. a
i f i t i s t o become

is t h a t

i t

s

i

while longer.

really effective

us g e n e r a l i y t o c o n t r o l t h e a m o u n t
and h a v e

e

yemain f a i r l +

r

a

b

l

e to

T h e o n l y point
a n d enable

o f i t i n circulation

equal t o t h e a m o u n t o f t h e i n -

rts, i t vould b e most helpful i f the other reserve banks
Z

vould v a y o u t t h e c e r t i f i c a t e s

as c u r r e n t l y received;

not

necessarily “ o r e t h a n t h a t e
The C h a i r m a n e

I t i s a s s u m e d t h a t a h a t h e pbaniss

represented here a r e prying g o l d o n demand. ‘Yoathat further


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

extent a r e r o u v a y i n g i t , G o v e r n o r B a i l e y ?
ps
‘ t f h e n t h e g o l d certificate c o m e s

Governor Bailev.

coes i n t o t h e m i x e a c u r r e n c y a n d i s Dvaid o u t i n t h e
WAV.

‘ / e pay out anything v e talen

Governor Harding.

the v a y o f gold certificates.
certivicates.

W e d o not take i n

‘ # e vay out gold certificates o n

t, but o u r receipts a r e negligible.
‘ie have b e e n p a r i n g o u t g o l d

certificates sinee avout t h e first o f June.

W e have d e -

p o u t four million dollars.

creased o u r gola :

Ye have p a o u t o u r e i p t s a n d avont f o u r million dollars additions 3

a

t : i f t e e n o r sixteen million d o l -

lars h a v e g o n e o u t d u r i n g t h e t pericode

Governor Bigss
OVveLe

‘ i e have ~laced n o restriction

‘ l e s e y 2 G o U t >. hen recuUestede

time w e h a v e o a i d o u t l i t t l e o v e r s i x n i l l i o n
have r e c e i v e d 3 6 , 0 5 0 , 0 0 0 ,

s o “ve have r e c e i v e d m o r e t h m

we h a v e 2 a i d o u t e
Governor Calixins.
the a d v i c e

‘ i e have T o l l o w e d q u i t e c o n s i s t e n t l y

o f t h e c o m m i t t e e consis’ c

Mpeasury Devartment a n d the
as followg, "Banks,

of representatives

F e d e r eserve
a l R Board,

i n making payments o f curyeney


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

145
listribute t h e currency i n the following order o f
preference, f i v e s a n d over, ly, n a t i o n a l banic notes;

reserve b a n k notes; 5S, s i l v e r certificates

4

2,

, United

States notes, 5 , Federal Reserve notes, 6 , gold certificates,

which amounts i n practice, t o paving out gold certificates,
when recuested, a n d not othervise.
s “our output greater t h a n rour i n -

I

The Chairman.

Governor Callinse Avdout t h e samee
Governor ‘:ellborn.

e p a y them out i n the regular order.

Y

special recuests.

Governa S e a y .

Y e d o not confine o u r »vayments t o

W e v a y them o u t only o n demand.

‘Je

have never been able t @ see how i t hurts the Federal Reserve
penis t o leave a

depository o f gold i n this country, a n d

were w e can pay out Federal Reserve notes and put behind
them a dollar i n gold, w e d o it.
Governor Young.

‘ J e pay o u t gold when i t i s re-

“Je have n a i d out since L a y lst 3 9 7 , 0 0 0 .
Chairman.

H o w much d i d vou take in?

Governor Youngs I

Governor Norris. I
an exact statmenstanted,
statement h e r e .

have n o report o n that.

interpret this tonic t o m e m
a n d I therefore h a v e t h e exact


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

146
oe

In t h e c a l e n d a r
P ?o? p o

a n c e c k ad o u t

In t h e n i n e m o n t h s
e Teygey L
ie)

i anld:

of

eon

S

G

ee
bhiis eyee a r

ve r e c e i v e d
COUN »

--ear

last

33,979,500

endin

oe ae ’
O
A
d i h z y i c l e l e Aig

Haas v e a r

In genats,
pL

51,901,000.

we r e c e i v e d

Said. sub. J6y014, S00,

in gold

we r e c e i v e d

16,000, ‘ t h a t i s

“ T aek e o e

c e r ss
i Ibc
att Se t e

n

192

sear

EyVOD y

O00

We

2,000 a n a

a n d

have r e c e i v e d
EO. a e

sent

Treasury 35,522,000.
r

sx
r
t sge

a s us i s tJa n

ie
u

e
A
o
u

we have dealings w i t h
sold c e r t i f i c a t e s
are s t i l .

them,

o r cOine

& S000 m a n y

or the b a n k s
Sia. 3

undez

all t h e s o l c c o i n a n d
‘he - C h a i r m a n s - l h n
litte

do n o t s e e m t o

eold

certificates.

Vhicarce 1@ are

ie Bo
r >i a
n g

ng

O u t

a n e anecihe- L a s s a

529,425,000. During
311,:40,000. ‘ i e are
eran U r .

Rey 2

e l e

vould Dales

destination

o r

ATOR A a a .

TOU.

iL


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

147
into t h é F e d e r a l R e s e r v e b a n s . I

do not s e e where i t has

mone.
Harrison.

I t i s impossible

t o s a v where i t has

gonee A p n a r e n t l y f r o m t h e f i g u r e s g i v e n j u s t n o w i t i s n o t y
peing a c c u m u l a t e d

i n t h e o t h e r r e s e r v e banks.

The Chairman. I
Mr. Harrison.

know that.
T h e increase

i n gold over t h e amount

ef our excess vavments o f certificates must b e due t o deposits
or

of free gold b y the Treasury b y member banks,to t h e domes~

tic production, |
The Chairman.

D i d I gather f r o m your figures, G o v e

ernor Norris, t h a t r o u g a i n e d s o m e i n gold?
Governor Norris.

Yese

T h i s year w e gained a

little l e s s t h a n t w e l v e m i l l i o n
Governor Seay.

operations i n gold?

i n certificates.

W e r e t h o s e d u e t o deposits,

o r due t o

I n other -ords, w e r e those Over the

counter?

Governor Norris, T h o s e were g o l d certificates.=---:
received o v e r t h e counter.

‘‘henever w e make payments

to

any o f the Government officers w e always p a y a wart o f i t
in gold certificates.

there
I do not thinkAs occasion t o ask for
any a c t i o n o n t h i s a t all.

T h e o n l y action that w a s contem-


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

148
plated w a s v e r h a p s h a v e t h e b a n k s p a y o u t a p p r o x i m a t e l y

much a s they were receiving.
vith t h e e x c e p t i o n

as

T h e y a r e evidently doing

o f o n e o r t w o cases,

“ h e r e i s o n e o t h e r matter, w h i c h h a s

Governor . Calkins.

received t h e attention o f this conference before a n d might
receive i t now, a n d that i s the question vhether i t i s
expedient f o r the Federal Reserve banks t o endeavor t o pay
out gold a n d “old certificates,
tent. ‘ T h e r e i s a

Gifference

o r “hether i t i s inexped-

o f ovinion abort t h a t a n d I

think the conference might g o o n record about i t e
Er. Harrison. D o e s n ' t t h a t mean specifically that
“rou m e a n w h e t h e r

o r not i t would b e advisable f o r N e w Y o r k

to c o n t i n u e i t s p r e s e n t

Governor Seay.

olicy?

H o w much gold have y o u lost i n

period?
Mr. H

V

arrison.

e have m a d e n e t poyments

o f

hundrec a n d tventy seven million o v e r imports, b u t i n
his

spite

e e

hotdings o f the svstem i n sold have gone-

over v i f t y f o u r m i l l i o n d o l k a r s
The C h a i r m a n .

W o u l d . : o u

i n the s a m e periode
like

m e t o g o around

table w i t h that inquiry, Governor Calkins?
Governor Calkins.

N o , Mr. Chairman, I

do not think


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

a

I will say-this

Harrison. ~

t the. d ¢ c u l a r

“hich originally induced G o v e r n o r Strong to c o n s i d e r
out certivicates,

i s not
Lte

Governor Calitins. H o v e v e r i t i s still i n existence.
It i s less pressing, b u t stil. theres
Governor .ellborme.

in

I t was t h e idea o f the hoard,

ve
sending out the circular referred t o by hr. Calkins that
hearded t h e s o l d d u r i n g 7
40 s c a t t e r a

.

good policy

a

e n d that i t w

little s o l d o u t i n t o c i r c u l a t i o n n o w ?

Governor Bailey.

hade

‘ T h aL t w a s t h e i m p r e s s i o n I

Governor . e l l b o r n .

T h a t w a s t h e reason

for it and

to u s a s k i n g t h a t w e p a r out. e v e n m o r e s o l d ,

tion m a d

d

o not Imow whether informally o r other isey

be a rood idea t o vay o u t five hundred million
certificates.
Se O n

n e

a

M a t w a s t h e iisure mentioned;---@~
r e

e e n T

i

f v e wanted to.

say o u t a n y “ o r e t h a n w e a r e p a v i n g n o .
said w e } >

f

V

e

O Otte
nracticallvy r e a c h e d t h e S a p u U p a t T n

ye

e OL
f o

do what t h e Treasury suggests would involve t h e extension
of our »olicy t o the other reserve banlcs.

b u t a s long a s


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

150
that particular question, t h a t i s the »ayring out deliberately
of a large vdlume o f certificates,
ference, I

i s not before t h e con-

do not think i t i s necessary t o decide i t now,

The o n l y c u e s t i o n t h e t n i g h t c o m e u p w o u l d b e w h e t h e r t h e
other r e s e r v e b a n k s a r e d e f i n i t e l y o p v o s e d t o N e w Y o r k

continuing t h e >rogram that has been invekgde f o r some fourteen months.

Governor beare ‘ j a s not t h e original i d e a “ith t h e
definite >urpose o f reducing t h e Federal Reserve pank's
reserve, a n d was i t n o t told i n order thet t h e Reserve banks
micht n o t accumulate a

large volume o f i t anc thus foster

an exynansion o f c r e c i t
La, Peary isons.

v

a

s n o t s o m u c h t o recucey G o v e r n o r

Seav, a s i t was t o prevent further increase.

T h a t was the

real c u e s t i o n e
(tovernor Sear. I

have n e v e r b e e n a b l e t o e n t e r t a i n

any s y m p a t h y « i t h t h a t s u s c e s t i o n

o r idea. I

believe

it

to b e f u n d a m e n t a l l y i n e : p e d i e n t .
The Chairman.

v

o ~ o u ‘ i s h this matter

t o b e dis-

surtiner a t t i s t i m e , tires H a r r i s o n ?

There i s n o occasion f o r it. But I
think G o v e r n o r C a l k i n s f e l t t h a t i t m i c h t b e e
a

good i d e a

for the conference t o express a n o»vinion a s t o *hether


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

York should continue t o v a y out t h e sold.
I do not think that i s necessary.
Covernor Fancher.
orogram t h a t b r i n g s

T h e r e i s another t o p i c l a t e r o n
u b c u r r e n c y operations.

the following motion

mades )
move

Governor Biggs: I

a t the Chair apnoint a

committee o f three t o disucss with Hr. «inston the proprie-

ty o f taking some action to speed up the printing of dollar
notes f o r t h e C h r i s t m a s d e m a n d .

(That motion, a f t e r »eing d u l y seconded vas unani-

mously carried.)
The Chairman.

T h a t committee

. ¥ Consist.

O L urs

i f apreeahbhe, ir. Harrison, w h o
Fancher, 3l rL. E Biggs
S S » n a d
time.
represents t h e N e w “ o r k b a n k a t t h e p r e s e n t

Now, i f there i s n o objection w e will pass t o topic

Board's W i t h d r a w a l
S e e

o f Permission

L i e m b e x r Bo 2 S

ae

Wises Acouired r o n o
Banks.
Governor Bailey.

Av»vly

e

I t would b e a very serious handi-

if o u r m e m b e r banks w e r e n o t p e r m i t t e d
paper t h e y h a v e t a k e n f r o m 4

t o rediscount

non-member b a n k e

O u r


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

152
Ther

member pvanlss a r e t a k i n g c a r e o f t h e c o u n t r y o u t there.

lnow

take c a r e o f t h e p a p e r o f t h e n o n - m e m b e r b a n k s . I
the a r g u m e n t

i s made t h a t t h e non-member b a n k wants

get t h e benefit o f the system without coming in.
theory i s t h a t a

to

N y

member b a n k w h o h a s t a k e n t i e n o t e o f

a non-member bank,

i n due course, s h o u l d b e allowed t o

t it. nf a k e uf o r instance
o
ca four
s months
i t note
d that
it h a s c a r r i e d f o r t w o m o n t h s a n d a

member b a n k f i n d s i t

I

f that vaper i s per=

necessary

t o r e d i s c o u n t w i t h us.

fectly eligibld w e ought t o b e permitted t o take it.

T I

believe r o u will penalize t h e member banks more than t h e
non-member b a n k s .

T h e member b a n k i s helping t o take

care o f the non-member because h e i s a corres»nondent,
and I believe t h e arbitrary ruling o f the Boa:
could n o t t a k e a n y p a p e r b e a r i n g t h e i n d o r s e m e n t 0
non-member b a n k w o u l d w o r k a
Governor Searve

hardship

o n them.

A r e t h e y s o loaded u p with non-

member ~ a p e r t h a t t h e y h a v e n o t a

sufficient q u a n t i t y o f

other vaper t o offer?
Governor Bailey. I

would not s a v they were, b u t i f

times i t i s their best naper a n d they want t o offer it, I
think i t s h o u l d b e accepted.
Governor ‘Jellborn. I

have n o t u n d e r s t o o d t h e r u l i n g


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

153
1.7,
the B o a r d a s -rou do.

Emvernor Young. I

c o r y o f X-5784?

H a s anvvone a

have t h e letter.

Governor ‘iellborn. I

think that i s direct loans t o

non-member Danlise

Governor Dailey. I

world b e absolutely apoosed t o

the none»
the member bank being t h e source through which
A t a

i p o

member bank: c a n get t h e benefit o f the s y

bank,
non-member yank, d o i n g business v i t h a member
due c o u r s e h a s g i v e n t h e m e m b e r ‘ a n k a

in

niece o f p a p e r a n d

I
the member b a n k offers i t t o u s for rediscount

think w e

aght t o be verm.tted t o take it.

Governor Sear. ‘ouldn't that resvuit i n the member
a s desired
pani: loaning a s freely t o the non-member bank
or c a l l e d u p o n ?

fovernor Bailey. I
we

d e n

t r a t o r

ivas oye ®

Se

think i t ‘mould, W e < E e e e
t h e menmoer
*
dajt

i n t h e mereat

panks

condition.
those caseSse

/ e

umstances,
For rediscount.

Governor B a i l e y .

“ j e undertook too:

that~-and t h e y

s u c h vaper a s i t n o w
said t h a t t h e b a n k c o u l d r e d i s c o u n t
had

i n its vortfolio.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

154
t o borrowing

I s the bank you -efer

Governor S e a r .

heavily?
I t i s not borroving a t all.

Governor Bailey.
Governor Seay.
examiner.

Then I

think i t

T h e bank wust have 2

reasonable

améunt

o f eli-

i f the bank
gible p a p e r o t h e r t h a n n o n - m e m b e r b a n k p a p e r
good o r d e r e

I

t ought

t o exhaust

the o t h e r i t s e e m s t O M G e L

that vaper before

think

+0

erroneous impression a s t o the Board's attitude.
seem t o m e t o b e a n arbitrary ruling a t ail.

Mave a n

I t doesn't

I f there w a s

arbitrary i t vas during t h e w a r »veriod vhen Governor
associates, permitted
vernor Bailey. I

understood that.

non-member
grant t h e m e n b e r b a n k s t h e »~rivilege o f t a k i n g
banks!

t h e othe
p a p e r d u r i n g t h e war, e n d t h i s r u l i n g

hes j u s t r e v e r s e d t h a t a n d n u t s
sition o f n o t t a k i n g a n y e
Gove

Boarde
°

Go; ernor Bailer. _

i have h a a a n experience

v
c o v i de
permission e n d they replie “that a beni:
its portfolio.

Further than that,

r4+
i n asking


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

weich h a s a
Jocument

,

number

o f cotton bills
and

«h.ch come f r o m Uouston

veston i f anys bills h a p v e n t o e a r

t h e indorsment

G A

o f some

country n o n - m e m b e r b a n k t h e y w o u l d n t l e t t h e m t a k e i t .
Our d i s t r i c t

i s cvite largely a n

acricultural d i s t r i c t a n c w e n e v e r h a v e f r o m t h e p e g i n n i n g
vw

sfece o f n o n - m e m b e r b a n k p a p e r i n c o r s e d b y

a member bani, except that issued tor war purposes.
Governor Harding. D i d n ' t vou d o i t a t one time
4

bank in--Kaleighy,
nk d i d n o t c a l l w o o n u s e ‘ i s
permission

i n Shot case.

Tt h a s n e v e r b e e n “ u r d e n s o m e

to u s i n a n y s e n s e o f
seaye a r e n ' t r o u i m a g i n i n g t h a t i t m a y

nerhaps b e a »urden?,

Governor Bailey.

4 s soon

v o u l d discover that

the member bank vas abusing i t we a u t o m a t i c a l l y shut

itoff, but if it pore

ey the

ear

h a v i n g been i n a

member bani: for t w o months, a n d h a d two months more t o run,
ano i t vas a good s~iece o f papers I
permitted

think w e ought t o b e

t o take it.

Governor Seav.

My o w n o p i n i o n i s t h a t o n e o f t h e
at

tha
most jumidious acts o f the Board was


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

156
non-menber i s outside o f the system b y
election.

i n some sections o f

he i s f i g h t i n g t h e s y s t e m f o r a l l h e i s worth.

H e i s the

man w h o carries these matters i n conference, carries t h e m
she m a n v h o i s c r e a t i n g t h e trouble.
will n o t c o m e i n a n d c o n t r i b u t e a n y o f h i s s t r e n g t h t o

the benefit o f it.

M y ovwm

he d o e s n o t d e s e r v e a n y s v m p a t h y e

Tt i s undov>» edlv true that

non-member Dan!lise

Chairman. G o v e r n o r Bailey,

i t seems t o m e that

the Board has not entirely withdravn i t s permission.
Their attitu

h a s been a s liberal a s the circumstances
on. tita?:

Governor Bailey.
have a

chance t o
the a d v i s o r y c o u

last meeting, i f I remember,

Governor S e a v e I

The Chairman.

d o not t h i n k so, Governore

. I n the interest o f ~rogress, w h a t

dis»sosition d o y o u s u g g e s t t h a t


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

L57
vnere i t s h o u l d rest.

through i f you care
any f u r t h e r a c t i o n b e

Gay ernor Bailes. l o , sire
The Chairman.

N o w that completes t h e first section

e Ff, w i c h
of our orogran, v i t h t h e exception o : t o p l e L
we have >ostponed discussion o f until Governor Strong i s
here.

He wilh n o t d e v a t h i s afternoon.
Chairmane

t h e n e x t section o f the vrogram has
Clearingse

S i n c e thet has t o

willl t a k e u p w i t h M r . S t r a t e r
t o the next section

and Lr. nénzel, p e r h a v s

v e had b e t v e r ©

of the.oregram. «% i

N o e S y cOin,y currency and circul-

ation.

balieina,. T h e e 7

a1Lé

t

h

¢
e joint confreren:

program i s i t not?

The Ch@irman.

a r e “ou willing t o have that g o over?

Governor Seay. .

‘je ought t o b e s i v e n o p o o r t u n i t 7

read t h e report before i t i s brought u p for d
The report h a s just been handed t o u s todar.
Governor liorris. I

did n o t sunnose t h a t

to


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

D bevore T u e s d a y

o r ‘ednesdayr

o r I

would have

to g e t t h e n e p o r t h e r e c a r l i e r e
The Chairman.

T h e n t h e vronosition

i s t o have t h e

o f the conference r e a d over t h e report

members

mittee a n v o i n t e d

o f the com-

o f Governors

i n larch, 1 9 2 5 c o n f e r e n c e

to consider t h e advantages o f tax o n circulation over
Government p a r t i c i p a t i o n

i n profits

I

f that i s t h e

wish o f t h e c o n f e r e n c e t h a t c o u r s e w i l l b e p u r s u e d e
The n e x t t o p i c i s S = B.
u m e ? F i t United States
PE
o e s
Betveen R e n e s v e B a n k s .
sleie i s r e c o m m e n d e d t h a t t h e R e s e r v e B o a r d b e r e c u e s t e d
to d e v i s e s o m e v l a n w h e r e b y e x c e s s s u p v l i e s

o f fit United

be
States currency accurmlated i n Federal Reserve banks m a y
T h i s recommendation i s

utilised b y other reserve b a n s .
from N e

the T r e a s u r y D e p a r t m e n t
has a l r e a d y d e v i s e d a

progran

the r e s e r v e banizs c o n t a i n i n g a

w h i c h ther

sugsestion

ha

o f redistributing

these e x c e s s suporlies o f f i t o n e d o l l a r H i l l s
provosal

s o thet t h e

o f the N e w Y o r k bank that t h e Board b e recuested

already
to d e v i s e s o m e v l a n h a s b e e n a n s w e r e d b y t h a t a c t i o n
taken b y t h e Y r e a s u r y D e p a r t m e n t

i n w o r k i n g out a

plane


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

159
Governor Calkins.
Lr.

r e a l

I

B u t t h a t o l a n h a s n o t b e e n ado»vted.
t h a s n o t b e e n adopted,

m a t :

E b i

tonic n o w s h o u l d more s p e c i f i c a l l y d e a l w i t h a p p r o v i n g

>rogram which t h e treasury h a s »ronosed.

The Chairman.

A r e rou familiar with the plan?

lire Harrison. I

understa

t h e oneration i s t o b e

through some central committee o f the Federal Reserve Board
of the Treasury Department.

T h o s e banks which have received

flit notes i n excess o f the amount t h e y have p a i d o u t a n d

thererore have a n accumulation o f Pit notes vould, under
he vlan pronosed,

b e recuired t o ship those notes t o other

banks where there i s e shortage o f Zit notes.
of it, a s I

wuderstand,

T h e »ourpose

i s t o permit t h e Treasury Depart-

to issue nev) currency t o each Federal Réserve b a n k i n
sufficient a m o u n t t o a l l o w t h o s e b a n k s

t o p a y out i n the

ratio they have tried t o naintain o f 6 O new a n d 4 0 fite

That vrogram has been
; imvossible f o r us =i n the past because
fact t h a t t h e r c h a s b e e n s u c h a n e x c e s s
Bo
s
o
m
Of i S e t e r a t
less t h e r e i s s o m e m e a n s

:
e _ =
r e d e r a l Reserve pants,
o f snifting t h ei

one r e s e r v e b a n k t o a n o t h e r
distribution,

n

s o a s t o permit o f

t h e »>rogram f a l l s d o w n .

have s o m e c e n t r a l s o u r c e

a c c u m u
a n d un=

f r o m
t t 60-40

‘ t h e plan i s t o

t o direct t h e vroper redistribution


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

160
T h e o n l y question that c a m e u p

of t h e f i t notes.

minds o f the ‘'reasury Department,
the c o r r e s p o n d e n c e ,

s o far a s w e could get f r o m

w a s t h e c u e s t i o n o 1 y e y i n e t h e costs o f

notes betveen banks. Legicaliy w e
easury Department “ o u l d b e
inasmuch a s i t
of making shipments o f notes direct f r o m
to other voints.

T h e y claim, however, a n d I have n o doubt

it i s perfectly true, t h a t t h e y have n o t sufficient aporo=priation

t o d o that a n c therefore t h e success

plan a t present d e p e n d s u p o n t h e willingness.
serve b a n k s

G l Tas
of

t o absorb t h e coste

was wondering «‘hether a l l

The Ghaibmanel I
have t h e plan.

believe i t was sent t o each ban,

ir. Harrison. I
put I

a m not sures
T h i s cuestion i s bound u p with

Governor Calkins.
another ¢

o

n w h i c h w e h a v e discussed u p hill a n d down

dale a g o o d m a n y years,
fit a n d u n f i t n o t e s e
in h a v i n g
by a

a n d that j

y r . New Y o 9

t h o uniform sorting o f
o n t vrecicament

a n excess s u p o l v o f f i t n o t e s h a s b e e n c a u s e d

too liberal p o l i c y

o n t h e i r part i n paying

o t

--

f they receive 4 0 per cent fit and 59 unfit, they have


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

L61

paid out 41 per cent fit a n d 8@ per cent unfit. T h e r e is
great variation among t h e banks i n the processes o f sorting.

lir. Harrison.

:
p r o p e r
W e are making the/:poyments,

the provortion o f 60-40.

a b o u t

T h e difficulty i s that-ve g e s

pack o n deposit m o r e f i t n o t e s t h a n 4 0 p e r c e n t i n Davymente
Therefore t h e r e i s a n accumulation.
this p r o g r a m t h a t h a s b e e n v r o p o s e d
that c a m e u p i s a b o u t t h e e x p e n s e

W

e o f course f a v o r

m d t h e o n l y question

o f t h e shipment.

feeling i s t h e r e c e i v i n g b a n i s h o u l d p a y i t b e c a u s e

fact that, i n the case o f New York f o r instance,

O u r
o f the

w e bear

the assorting charge, w h i c h i s far i n excess o f the cost o f
shipment.

B u t i f the success

o f the program depends u p o n

bank
h
t cost, w e are perfectly willing
the N e w Y o r k / a s s u m i n g e
to d o it.

T h e total amount under t i s p l a n has been esti-

mated t o b e only 38,000 a vear.
Governor Calkins.

T h e suggestion w a s made, inas-

much a s the l a n would benefit a l l F e d e r a l reserve banks

that i t should be borne b y the banks i n proportion t o their
capital a n d surplus,

a s i n the case o f new fit bills bet-

ween t h e b a n k s e

Mré¢ Harrison.

T h a t would o f ca'rse b e cheaper f r o m

Yew York's standpoint, because most o f the shipments would
be f r o m N e w Y o r k .


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

162

have h a d a

great d e a l o f t r o u b l e

of o n e G o l l a r b i l i s f o r »vayroll p u r vie G i d have. a

Situation w h e r e a b o u t 7 5 p e r c e n t

unfit currency w a s circulated i n the fourth district.

S i x

weeks a g o this w a s helped a little b y some n e w currency,
V i e oaid t h e ex-

but w e h a v e h a d a n extreme s i t u a t i o n .
pense o f s o r t i n g 3 5 , 0 0 0 , 0 0 0

i n one dollar bills t h a t w e

got f r o m the N e w York bank, and, f o r that labor, w e got
40 p e r c e n t f i t f o r circulation.

T h e o n e dollar bill sit-

uation i s a very serious o n e i n the f u r t h district a n d
has b e e n s o f o r months.

Governor Seay.
hes r e c e i v e d a

T h e Treasury Department anda the Board

c o m m u n i c a t i o n f r o m e v e r y bank,

position t o take t h e next stop.

A

and

s I recall i t

provosal w a s t h a t w e a d o p t t h e s a m e o r o c e d u r e t h a t w e a d o p t e d
in r e t u r n i n g f i t F e d e r a l r e s e r v e notes.

T I believe t h e - -

25

receiving b a n k p a y s t h e c o s t a n d t h e o t h e r b a n k D a y s

the insurance, something o f that kind.
The C h a i r m a n . I
cers s t a t i n g t h e y a r e

have a

note f r o m s o m e

i n favor

o f the plan

o f o u r offi-~

a s o u t l i n e d pro=-

viding t h e cost o f inter bank shipments o f fit notes b e
assumed b y all the Federal Reserve banks.
only i n v o l v e a

small amount.

o i e : ke S e a

M r . Harrison thinks

i t might b e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

-ITLpeGaBp- ize
be abott 38,000 a s a maxinum.
‘hat i s f o r t h e w h o l e s v s t e m p e r y e a r e

Mp, h e r r : son.

fhe O n a trmsan sg £ 6

would

seems t o m e t h a t t h e w h o l e s r s t e m

‘ l e might n o t r e c e i v e s h i p m e n t s Ofte Las

be benefitted.

but w e would get some
W

tribution o f n e w notesSe

benefit f r o m the treasury d i s

e w o u l d a l l get some benefit

from that would w e not?
Mr, Harrison.

think w e c a n d i s p o s e

Yese I

topic, i f w e are i n favor

one t h e plan,

o f tnis

b y recOmmending t h a t

the e x p e n s e b e G i v i d e d » r o - r a t a a m o n g t h e t w e l v e F e d e r a l
reserve banks.

I would make s u c h a motion, Mr.

Governor Y o u n g e
Chairman.

Governor Fancher.
The Chairman.

B u t just how would that work out?

I t vould work o u t that s o m e panks would

ship a n d some receive a n d other »anks would neither ship.
nob receive,

b u t t h e y would a l l participate equitably

the d i s t r i b u t i o n o f n e w n o t e s

in

a t least.

Governor Fancher. T h e new notes are put out by the
Treasury Department, a n d that i s } npovided f o r ; b u t a s t o
who
shipments betveen Federal reserve banks o f fit notes,
is g o i n g t o s t a n d t h e s h o c k ?
Governor Young.

The m o t i o n

¥

i s that t h e cost

b e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

163
pro-rated a m o n g t h e F e d e r a l r e s e r v e p a n k s

i n proportion

to

their c a p i t a l a n d surplus.

Governor Sear.
f

“ould a

o

H o w “ould the accounting b e done?
r t h e shipment

a t t h e t i m e a n d report

the cost t o the Federal Reserve Board?
ir. Harrisone

T h e N e w York view i s that logically

the receiving b a n k would b e the o n e t o make payment.
I n y letter t o Lrs Jinston,.
Governor F a n c h e r . n

in

ansver t o the cuestion about t h e shipment o f fit notes, w e
took the »osition that i f w e relieved some bank, a s w e
have i n t h e past,

o f the trouble a n d expense o f sorting t h e

currency, w h e r e w e h a v e s o m e b a n k s s h i p u s o n e d o l l a r B i l i s

unsorted, t h a t bank that ships t o u s i s benefitted b y the
saving o f t h e l a b o r o f sorting,
of shipment;

a n d should n a y t h e expense

b u t i f ther s h i p f i t notes t h a t t h e y have g o n e

to t h e e x p e n s e o f sorting, t h e n i

aG
i

s f o r o u r benefit t h a t

shoulda D a y t h e s h i p p i n g c h a r g e s e

The Chairman. ‘souldn't that be the vroper procedure,

t o have t h e shipping bank

then s h i p a t t h e e x p e n s e

then,

t o count

o f the receiving bank?

i f for some special reason v o u made a

lieve a

a d « - . <->

a n d sort
A

n

d

deal t o re-

bank o f the sorting, t h a t t h e y would b e willing

to v a y t h e eharges o f shipment because t h e y would t h e n b e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

relieved o f t h a t w o r k ?

liv. Harrison.

T h a t would b e satisfactory t o New

Governor Norris.

A n d it w o u l d b
e satisfactory t o us.

Governor Fancher. I

think t h e Federal Reserve b a n k

benefitted b y the shipment o f the f i t currency should p a y
the s h i p p i n g c h a r g e s e

will b e glad t o withdraw m y motion,

Governor Young. I
Mr. Chairman.

Governor Seay. I

would like to move that the Federal

Reserve Board b e urge? t o put t h e p l a n into operation a n d
to d e t e r m i n e u p o n m e t h o d s

o f bearing t h e expense o f ship-

ma
ment o f f i t n o t e s b e t w e e n F e d e r a l R e s e r v e banks,

t h e method

bg

to be determined according t o suggestions received from the

different Federal Reserve banks.
Governor Fancher. I

will second that.

(The motion having been duly seconded, was unanimously

carriede)
The Ohairman.

T h e next topic i s 5 ~ C.

CG. C o s t o f Shipments o f Currency t o Member

Banks for account o f Disbursing Officer.

Governor Calkins,

A t the ~ . Governors’ ©
eigen E E

in Mey, 1 9 2 2 ,

M o e ~

i t was voted that t h e cost o f shipping c u r -


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

165
reney t o G o v e r n m e n t o f f i c e r s e i t h e r d i r e c t

o r t o panks f o r

credit o f their account, b e not absorbed. F e d e r a l Heserve banits a r e n o w absorbing t h e cost o f shipment o f curreney t o m e m b e r banks, w i t h t h e e x c e p t i o n o f s h i p m e n t s f o r

the account o f Government officers.

I n view o f the fact

of t h e i n f r e c u e n c y o f t h e s h i p m e n t s e n a t h e FHot.. t h e t t h e

Federal Reserve banks cannot vossibly identify t h e shipments
i i s recommended t h a t t h e cost o f shipping
for t h a t » ~ u r p o s e , t

currency t o member banks o n account o f Government officers
shipbe a b s o r b e d b y t h e F e d e r a l R e s e r v e p a n k a n d t h a t t h e

officers

r oo” |

f

ment o f currency " © ~

A

b e not absorbed.

s a

§

matter

aemese G o Government
o f fact

w e cannot

identify shipments t o member banks f o r Government officers.
We d o n o t lkmow w h e t h e r

w e charge f o r t h e m o r note

Governor Seaye ‘ J e ship them b y express o n Government
bill o f lading. I
it i s r a d e a s a

would like t o second that proposition i f

motion.

Governor Calkins. |

r e f e r s

t o the action taken i n

May o f 1920.
The Chairman.

I

Governor Calkins.
The Chairman.

s that offered a s a

motion?

Yese

I s there a n y further discussion

on

the c u e s t i o n ?

(There was n o further discussion and the motion having

been duly seconded, was’ unanimously carried.)


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

The Chairman.

T h e next topic i s 5 - D.

D. P a y m e n t o f G o l d Certificates.
That c o v i c h a s b e e n d i s p o s e d o f e

“le will n o w take u p fiscal agency operations.
Governor Young.

The Chairman.

‘ T h a t i s o n t h e j o i n t progran.

T h e first under Topiie V's:
A. R e i m b u r s e m e n t s o r F i s c a l A g e n c y
ExpenseSe

That i s suggested b y New York.
would prefer t o have that g o over

Mr. Harrison. I

a s Goverto b e considered o n the joint programy, especailly
nor Strong i s not here.

The Chairman. W i t h o u t objection that will b e done.
The Chairman.

T h e next i s B e W a r Loan Deposit

Accounte
B. W a r L o a n D e p o s i t A c c o u n t .
That i s s u b m i t t e d f o r d i s c u s s i o n w i t h a

view t o

f o r profit m a k ~
eliminating w a r l o a n d e p o s i t a c c o u n t s s o l e l y
ing purposese
The f i r s t s u b - h e a d i s 1 .

A s t h e result o f operations

investors a r e
of larger banks under t h e present practices
same degree. t h e y
not able t o obtain certificates t o the
theme
would i f banks d i d not compete f o r
Governor Calkins.

T h e r e i s one thing I

think should


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

done i n c o n n e c t i o n v i t h t h i s topic.

There seems t o b e full justification f o r a bank payscriptions o f its amstomers b y credit because i t
relieves t h e pressure o n the bank b y reason o f withdrawal
of i t s d e p o s i t s

However, a

i n Government securities.

f o r investment

few o f the larger banks finding a desirable profit

in the war loan account have subscribed f o r certificates a n d
notes f o r their o w n account.

I t i s realized that e v e n

though t h e y might disvose o f such investments a t a discount,
yet t h e o p e r a t i o n o f t h e d e p o s i t a c c o u n t n o t o n l y o f f s e t s
thet l o s s ( i f a n y ) ‘ u t l e a v e s a

margin o f »rofit.

N o t

margin o f vrofit sought b y these banks,
war l o a n a c c o u n t e n a b l e s t h e m t o k e e p u p t h e i r t o a l

line.
Tt i s a l s o s u g g e s t e d t h a t t h e t i m e h a s n o w a r r i v e d

wherein t h e use o f commercial paper a s security i s n o
longer a necessity.
The thing I

wish t o recommend i s that t h e Treasury

Department b e asked t o discontinue t h e eligibility o f commercial p a p o r ae - ‘collateral f o r w a r l o a n d e p o s i t s e

Governor Seare I
Governor Young. I

will second that motion.
do not know that i t i s necessary

- to have the Secretary o f the “reasury d o that.
ey

W e stopped


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

year a n d a

h a l f a g o a t Linneapolis.

Governor Calkins.

Phe Chairman. I

T h e r e g u l a t i o n s a r e q u i t e clear.

have this comment i n regard t o the

topic: C o r m e r c i a l paper w a s used a s security f o r Govern-

ment deposits during the war when i t was difficult f o r the
yanks

in

t o provide t h e G o v e r n m e n t w i t h o t h e r s e c u r i t i e s

sufficient cuantity t o cover t h e amount o f deposits.

I t

does not s e e m necessary n o w t o take commercial paper, and,
considerable amount o f work i n

inasmuch a s i t causes a

checking u p the names a n d continuously replacing t h e maturi-~
ties, i n the interest o f economy t h e practice should b e
discoritinued. A

motion t o that affect h a s been seconded.

Mr. Harrison. I

to New York.

would like t o s a y this with regard

M a n y o f the institutions i n w r district,

principally t h e larger N e w York City banks, continue. 5 G G e s

posit commercial paper; a s collateral t o their war loan
depositse

T h e r e a r e a t present s o m e thirty banks i n New

York City w h o continue this » r a c t i c e , t h e amount o f commercial » a p e r o n deposit

a t this t i m e cotaling upwards

of

521,000,000 against a total o f all classes o f collateral
of about 158,000,000.

T h e taktng a w a y o f this vrivilege

would b e undesirable a s the banks f i n d i t a real convenience
to b e a b l e t o p l e d g e c o m m e r c i a l p a p e r a n d t h u s o b t a i n t h e |

prompt delivery o f Government certificates o r other securi-~


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

169
dat

ties f r o m t h e i r w a r l o a n accounts.
Governor Norris.
the s i x t h d i s t r i c t

A t t h e present t i m e t h e banks

have ledged with

in

u s apvroximately forty-

four million o f securities a s collateral f o r war loan de~
posits.

O f this amount twelve million,

per c e n t o f t h e coliateral, c o n s i s t s

o r over twenvy-five

o f commercial paper,

deposited almost exclusively b y city banks.

T h a t clearly

indicates that t h e c i t y banks prefer t o deposit collateral
of this character i n order t o avoid t h e work a n d risk involved i n handling negotiable securities which,

i n quite a

few cases, requires t h e supervision o f several o f their officials. P e r s o n a l l y I

do not s e e anrthing t o b e gained b y

his vrivilege a s the paper i s easily handled a n d
checked a n d g e n e r a l l y c o n s i s t s

o f prime o p e n market p a p e r

roind amounts, p r o v i d i n g a m p l e p r o t e c t i o n

in

t o t h e Government

for i t s deposit.

Governor Wellborn.

T h e y sell their certificates a n d

then p u t t h e c o m m e r c i a l p a p e r a s c o l l a t e r a l ?
Governor S e a y .

T h e v d o both.

T h e y sell them a n d

porrow o n t h e paper, w i t h d r a w t h e s e c u r i t i e s , b o r r o w

again o n the securities.
Governor Young. I
to t h e S e c r e t a r y

a m afraid i f that suggestion goes

o f the T r e a s u r y

h e might c o m e b a c k a n d s a y


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

170
commercial paper c a n b e taken a n d h e may s a y i t must b e
There i s n o w t h i s o p t i o n w i t h t h e b a n k a s t o w h e t h e r
will t a k e i t o r n o t s
Govermor Calkins. I

d o n o t t h i n k i t i s optional.

(‘le

are u n d e r i n s p e c t i o n f r o m t h e T r e a s u r y Department.
Governor Y o u n g e
and a

B u t w e naven't t a k e n i t f o r a

yeu

half.

The Chairman. u n d e r s t a n d the motion is that w e
apyrove t h e suge

o

n t h a t t h e use o f commercial paper

for war loan deposits b e discontinued.
further questions?

A r e there a n y

A r e v o u ready f o r the question?

(On a vote of the ayes andmys the motion was
carried 6 ayes t o 6 noese)
Is s u b - t o p i c B e l w i t h d r a w n ?
Governor Calkins. i

d o n0b. Care. t O Ofrer: a; F 6 s 0 u =

tion except w i t h regard t o B-2, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman.

N o w w e w i l l a s k lire H a r r i s o n t o l e t

us know where w e stand o n the program.
Me, Harrison.

I

t aonears t h a t w e have disposed o f

the whole o f topic No. 1 , credit transactions a n d vol
with Bhe exception o f topic f , repurchase agreement, lir.
opinion o f august 18, 1925.

Ye have not teuched any of the topics under colIéctions


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

L71-172
and clearings.
‘Je have d i s p o s e d o f a l l t h e t o p i c s u n d e r N o . 3 , Coinz,

currency a n d circulation, w i t h the exception o f the report

of Governor Norris! committee.
There does n o t appear anything left that w e c a n consider
further tonight, Mr. Chairmane
The Chairman.

T h e n t h e Chair will entertain a

motion

Mhereupon, a t 5240 o'clock pem., o n motion duly
nh

+
seconded, t h e conference adjourned t o meet i n joint scssion

with t h e @ h a i r m a n a n d F e d e r a l R e s e r v e A g e n t s

o f the Feder-

al Reserve B o a r d o n Tuesday, Noveber 15, 1925, a t 10.50
o'clock asm., t h e Conference o f Governors adjourning until

‘lednesday, November 14, 1925, a t 10.00 o'clock asm.)


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Se

O o2

D

OF GOVERNORS O F FEDERAL RESERVE
BANKS.

Wednescay, November 14, 19235,
°2: 50 ea @toek,

The c o n f e r e n c e s

y y om,

o f Governors recoavened, p u r s u s n t

to

adjournment o f Mondsy, a t 2:30 o'clock p. m. i n the hear-

ing room Federal Reserve Bosrd, Treesury Building, Weshinerony i: 6,
Present:
t

A g indicated i n the proceedings o f the

n d also Mr, Kenzel,
session,
s
r
i
re oll

o f the Federal Reserve

Bank of New York, a n d Mr. Strater, o f the Fecdersl Reserve
Bsnk o f C l e v e l a n d .

PROCEEDINGS.
The Chairmen: G e n t l e m e n , t h e meétins will come t o
order. I
which I

have received a

telegram from Governor w.cKinney,

will s s k

lir. Harrison: “ C y e i r n a n , Governors Conference,
Depply regret é@riticel illness o f Brother h s s preventec
my ettending conference.

W i l l miss association s s well


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

L174
which w o u l d s e c r u e t o m e p e r s o n a l l y f r o m
our F e c e r s l R e s e r v e

Uu w n e n s v e r

i t is

y wes deputy Covernor t h i s bank
snc i s thoroughly converseat w i t h opere
the b e n i :

W e

our
5 ge
S nsrsei concditio=

a

extenc

>irmen:

t

f w e r e 1 s mo: o

b ejtion.
S
x

Harrison s c k n o w l e c e s t h i s

symmaethy o f the conferen

Cover t h a t m e t e r .

Te will take u p f o r ciscu

s

e

c

t

i

o

n of t

o
. 2, which i s hescd-d “Collections 2 n d Clesrings,
programN


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Alig oat s e e
Lda

Raserve

LU R S

L e n e ,

e

M i n n e a p o l i s enproved o f

Iniform Collection Vireuls

i

s

a

a n y

, the<ides of 4%,

sotusl opsration,

LSS
N
e
e hes b s e
innespolis

on
asfining generat 4
ES

s b l e to


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

congitions m i g n t
u

seree t o h a n d l e i t e m s
ae)

TEs
ve

last e n d o r s e r

Y

a ijps)
2)

sec 2r

thet

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d

r those

e

-

o h a dle

t

we

we hendls t h e m entirely
nember bank,

~
4ik

or

wnom

in h s e

5st Minneapolis w e f;
circulers

L

e

t

h e d been

p

e

h

i

h

s

, 1925,

d i d

, b u t they

put o u t e n d i t w o u l d

job t o chenge t h e circulers, sltnough t h e y

elthough o u r c o u n s e l


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Governor Young,

theyY w i l l b e c ool l e c t e d
wise “ E l e G. SOIMy a

you. brovucht u p

et
BOSS

bscomes

into t h e t
Governor Young:

A r e n t

VeS
a s fp R
N43Eo DS

Governor

a
=

but t h e

It“doas.
Suto

Poo O c o e e
Ls

banks

Governor Young:
Governor s l l b o r m :

TLO a|

ie

bao

a e


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

rorer, Governor Young 3
r Young;
o
n

Nr O e«

v

ohaveG t o

went t o o r
o ui
datrh
t Wop
renga aare dro 4t
s oyyhsO

verrente,

o f woet tot, i s

third psrsagraph, w h i c h i s ths. paragraph r e l
routing checks ‘enc other ceah- items
—
h e
snd
b p ar e nr c7 h e s

had
, tSo p uLt that
E parap

eO V n
e ed r3 :
S
e E ryh ocra rP r
ai
ne

report’?

r Young:
o
:n O

rc

te o

v
b

G
e o r report


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Ata
Gowa t o the lettar which tmey suggest-

between the Federsl Reserve Banks, which
is the blenkst euarentee o n a l l items that may b e routed

indirectly t o other Fed-ral
conditions that e x i s t i n our dis trict,
to p e r m i t ¢1l o f our member banks t o route
snd n o n - c s s h i t e m s Jirect.
to benks w h i c h w e t h i n k s h o u l d have t h e t p r i v i l e
Thet c o m e s s b o u t b e c s u s s

o % n e condition o f sons

our m e m b e r banks.
cuarenty o n a l l c a s h a n d
and i n t h e Novemocer f s } a

i

s year

nencation f o r
Federal R e s e r v e B a n k s o n non~
na r s c o m e n d t h a t w e d o n o t u s e t h s O

u

endorsement, w i t h prior endorssments g u a rentced, although

they insisted t h e t iwinnespolis givs it.
>

neserve B a n k s h a v e

will find/on o s g e l l o f t h e October
5 of t h e November
Governor Seay: i
-erve Banks, Governor Young?

s

betwee


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Governor Young:

S

e

Governor Seay:

i

s a different thing, i s a ' t it?

N o t at all.

Governor Young:

I t says here, “You are

snd requested t o handle checks s n d otter

2uthor @

your cistricet, w h e n re-

cash items c r e w n o n par 6 3 n

PMBhber c l e a r i n g b a n k i n

from a n y m e m b e r o

a

h District, f o r our account, proviaec t h e y are
es pects

perly s n a o r s e d b y t h e

£

snc c o n d i t i o n s

from time t o time r

i n
tha

the hondling

vour m e m b e r banks.”
Then

i t seys:

un@erstood t h e t this l e t t e r i s a blenket guarenéorsesment o f 3

S

U i t e m s forwerded

to

isseribed.

you heve i n your l e f t hend r v fers
Gover nor. Young:

t h e non-cash items.

A n d thea they sey: . “ S v e r y b a k
bi lis o r o t h e r n o n - c a s h i t e m s

t o


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Benk, o r t o another Ffedera
eccount, w i l l be understood t o have
snd concitions o f this c
n receiving s u c h items t h e Federal
Reserve Benk will e c t only a s the collecting sgent o f
- no, that i s not t h e letter.

I t

says “You sare hereby suthorized
and hendle maturing notes, bills s n d other non-cash col-

lection items payable i n i s t r i c t ’ , end so forth---~
Governor Calkins:

i r , Chairman, I

sugsest t h e t w e

have this thing out now, i n ordsr that w e mey find out
T heve ¢ memorandum which refers t o t h e
ding cormittoe n o w before us, whikh
aiended b y t h e committee t h e t Federal
general practice,

d o not guarantee

ndorsements o n non-cssh collection items, unless
ngent u p o n t h e g u a r a n t e e

Federsl Reserve Bank, s n d then

by the next preceding bank sncorser.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

THE O N D E R O F

enk, banker, t r u s t company

for collection o n l y
1923
rior E n d o r s e m e n t C u e r e n t e e d

ral Reserve Benk of San Francisco."
h i On g eo s
—f a
v r s n t l y
The q u e s t i o n u n d e r c i s c u s s i o n s o p

o n

: ther the words
e
h gusranteed"
“
should
“Priora endorsement

ip S e

be left i n o r teken o u t o f t h e endorsement stamp, u p o n t a s
supposition thet,

t

a

k

n out, t h e prior endorse-

e

ments w i l l n o t b e gusrentesc N o w W , - - The Chairmen:

Tow, I

want t o make s sug-estion,

that i s thet w e n e S t r e t e r r e a d this report.
been very carsfully conin better position t o discuss i t

hire Harrison:

L e t m e s a y this, w h i e h m s y svoid con-

fusion i n considering t h e report.
nor Y o u n g resc, w h i c h p u r p o r t e d

T h e letter vnich Gover-

t o relats

t o tne

of prior endorsements o n non-cash collection 1

7 J.

w

a

coms

183
a letter whieh was recommended b y a n ocarlier Collection
Committce;

i t was never voted upon b y this Conference a t

that tiwe, b u t u t was referrod b a c k t o cach Federa 1

Reserve

Benk f o r consideration, a n d subsequently w a s referred t o lr.

Strater's Committee for final disposition.

A s I recollect

the situation there w a s never a n y agstion taken b y this Conference requiring o r requesting Reserve Banks t o quarantce
prior e n d o r s e m e n t s

o n nonecash collections.

I

t t s undoub-

tedly true a s t o cash collections, b u t while I may bo
mistaken, I

think n o action was evor taken a s t o nonecash

items, s o that the recommendetion o f lir. Strator i n this
report

t o which y o u refer i s not necessarily inconsistent

with a n y t h i n g t h o C o m m i t t e e h a s d o n e h e r c t o f o r e e

Governor Young: I

a m quito s u r e t h e Federal R o -

serve Banks have been nigkea t o furnish both o f those

guarantoose

I s that right?

Mr. Strater:

I t is, thay have.

T h a t i s not a

guarantee o f prior endorsements, b u t a guarantee o f the
missing endorsement o f the Federal Reserve B a n k f o r which

the member bank i s acting a s agent.

T h e Board was

quite decided i n its opinion that a

Federal Reserve Bank

Should n o t roceive directly f r o m member bakns i n other


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

184
Cistricts non-cesh collection items, b u t thet they could
receive t h e m i f the member b a n k w a s scting ¢ s t e agent
of t h e other Federal Reserve Benk.

lir. strater:

t

V h a t i s meat g

Governor Young:

guerentes’?

T h e blenket guerantse i s the missing

endorsement o f t h e d - r e l Reserve Bank f o r whom t h e
s s a g

member benk i s s g i

a

d 3 guarsatse

n

member bank's
r s s t o that.

a

g

i

Governor i

W e c a n refer

A blanket gurantee i s s blenkst guerentee.
thet t o ir, Herrison,

Strater:

w h o c a n s e t t l e i t v e r y quickly.

O f courss, a s Mr, H a r r i s o n s e t h i s
originally d r e w u p thst letter, b u t
our c o r m i t t e e e n d p u t i n t o o u r f i r s t

s recomiscndstion.
Governor Y o u n g :

W

O

2

7

1

Line Strater, t h e t y o u heve esked
that y o u r e c o r m e n d

n

g t o show

t

o ¢

et

ir, Streter:
muni tt

Governor Young:

T h e t msy b e disputed.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

guera
they. woulé. not

to i t s m s wnoich y o u

come

t o you

Which cdo c o m e t h r o u g h you,
Gentlemen, I

think w e c o u l d m e k e b e t -

the report, e n d es matters come u p

“3 ‘ o REPORT? OF “STAND ENG> COMMPTTEE O N COLLECTIONS.
o f>

“The report
submitted

n

i

s

Standing Conmittee o n Collections
o f Govertiors; neta: >

x e

aach o f the
reserve b e n s

solisction circu

0
collection circulers embodying -eco., sndations
previous report, s x c e p t t h e Yecere.

Winneepolis e n d Delles.

s e L S V o n rer


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

ks

issue t h e
this Committes.
collsction circular
recommendstions

o f t h i s Gommittese.

Bank o f Minneapolis a i d not 7
after s o m e G i s c u s s i o n

i t wes moved t h e t t h s

beck t o this committees, w i t h instructions t o commaunicete w i t h t h e Federal 5

idinneanolis,

oe, f

in s n effort t o come t o some sgresment,

to the uniform circulars which have been approved b y t h e other elever banks.

I n sccordsnee w i t h

this mo¢ion, t h e
eral Reserve B s
f this

Governor Young esdvisec

net counsel f o r t h e Minnespolis benk h e a con-

Governor Young, howby t h e F e d e r s l R e -

ntinuing t h e c o l l e c
serve Board s s t o continuing o r G i s ®
tion

o f non-cash items

s n d because

o f uncertsintiss

a s

Supreme Court o f
to t h e effect o f the decisions o f the


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

the United States i n the Atlante a n d -ichmond cases,
?innespolis b a n k would refrain f r o m issuing, either t h e
check collection o r non-cash collestion circulars, f o r
the present.

I

n commenting u p o n t h e fect thet

neapolis b e n k q s l e s
authorization 4

U a re

t

o issue 3
o

general

f endorsements

l e t t ro f

t o other Fecer=

21 Reserve banks, Governor Young cdvisec thse Coumittee

that this matter had not been referred t o counsel, b u t
thet t h e Executive Committee refused t o suthorize h i m t o
sign such 9 letter covering t h e direct sendings o f all

member 9nd non-member clearing banks.

T h e #ederel Re-

serve Bank o f Minneapolis contends t h a t i t hes sutnorized
cirec
only t w o o r three o f its member benks t o route items

6t this time ond inesimch a s t h e y heve giwen other Pederal
eserve banks specific letters o f suthorizetion s n a g u

antes covering this privilege, nothing further i s nec*ssary.
7

The Cormittee fsels t h a t i t has done everything

which i t can w i t h propriet
about uniformity i n tne

o

h

s t t e n
n

o

n

n g t o bring
-

c

e

s

collection circulsrs o f t h e verious
end thet the accomplishment o f this
must

n o w b e left with t h e Conference

o f Covernors

i

l


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

188
AT S I G H T O R O N
ARB vitAW

i

i&

T H E DOURSTIC s H I P L a N T
STAPLE

Under t h e existing roling o f the
Bosrd, conteined i n its letter X-301¢
not p a m i t t e d t o route non-casn
Cirect

t o member

o r non-membsr

The Agriculturel C r e d

benks

i n other

A c t o f 1923 amends >zction

13 o f t h e Federal R e s
Mi

anks w e y discount o r purchase b i l l s a f exchence
at sight o m o n demeai w h i c h s r e d r a w n t o finance t h e
‘omestic s h i p m e n t o f non-perishable,
stsple e g r i c u l t u r s l procucts.

r e s d i l y merketsble,

T h e Federsl Reserve B o a r d

this Conmittee 9 request b y one of the
the a d v i s a b i l i t y

benks t o route s u c n crefts,
or purchased b y them, “ireet t o t h e point o f
or Fed: ral r e s e r v e d i s t r i c t s

i n cases w h e r e

ne r o u t i n g o f e n y s u c h i t e m t h r o u g h t h e Fecaer
Lai


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

fh w o i c h

or b r o e n c h o f
woul.

the item

is

result

the o p i n i o n t h a t

e, should not be permitted
r

mn - m
ee m b
me r
aen d b n o
Pastor

obvious

nt ruling,

s o 4s

ano tner
s y benks
r e S 8E P
y

b bank vhich
t h e yenber
@

for G o l l e c t i o n s u c h item,

om

of Governors,

BE:

of u n i f o r m i t y

ad - out t e t . “ t h e r s

.
reserve

pens

I n 5 myers

nnmc ao l l
s s est iCo n

items.

‘ peLOe
Conference h a v i n g sirs2q}


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

190
prior s n - o r s e -

Woy
Sn ors ements
Conferanc £

roport

t o tls BSxL

Governors

a

to b e n o u n i f o r m i t y
eusrantseins

the

oninion o f t h e Gommittee, hnowever
o f presen
pee s t e n d p o i n t
he

i

Dee fi xY

w

Fs)

ow]

there i s

n o


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

191
> ee

oceesion f o r ~eserve banks t o gssume t h e responsibility
of cusrsnteeing prior endorsements o n non-cesn items.
It is, therefore, recomnended that, a s 8 geners] practice,
bsnks G o n o t g u a r e n t e e

w i o o r endorsements

on such items, unless t h e payment o f a n y such item i s
by 4
contingent upon t h e suarentee o f prior endorssnents
TZ c e
Fed-rel r e s e r v e b a n k s n d t h e n o n l y i n c a s s s waicre p r i o r

fou
endorsements h a v e b e e n s 2uxs r a n t e e c b y t hee n e x t p r e c e d i n re] €
or.

hy

Governor Cslkins:

l i r . Cheirman,

i t seems

t o me

here i s one o f t h e points t h a t w e should ciscuss s n d
=

mine now.

I

t is a

vital m a t t e r .

T

h

e recommencatio
a

unof the committee i s that they should not guarantee
less i t i s necessary.

S o m e o f u s w h o have h a d banking

collect
experience will probably realize t h a t when w e
t h e peyon
items i t i s necessary t o d o that, o r otnerwise
will n o t pay t h e item.
John Smith, w i t h h e l f »

Y o u c s m o t present tare croft o f
cozen endorsements,

e n d esk the

“hethner t h e
payor t o p e y i t without o n y knowledge o f
s i t i s nec

encorssm
guerantee,

a n d 4 7 i t i s nscessery

t o guarentes,

do i t a s a n ordinary procecure jnstead o f

W a y not


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

192

should o n l y b e done under sxcentional circumstcnces w h i c h
sre e l m o s t u n i v e r s s l circumstences.

Toe Chsirmen:

B u t does n o t t h e report s a y that t h e

Cormittee's investigation
custom varied among t h e commerciesl b m k s ?
think t h e report coes s a y that,

Governor Celkins: I

but thet does n o t beer o n m y point.
6

Chaidrivan:

t does b e s r o n t h e point w h e n y o u

I

say i t is necessary t h a t t h e banks guarentee those encorssments.
Governor

C e lk

A

g

s a rule i t i s necessary.

some
‘i

knomn t o ths peyer, o r where t h e y e r e O f Ba. per=
consequence;

b u t unerr ordinery prectics,

just
tse e n

corsements.
Governor S e e y :

T h e r e w o u l d h a v e t o b e a n under-

banks,
standing i n such cases between t h e Federal reserve
orcer
that i t was s s s a r y g u e r a r e n d o r s e m e n t i n
to obtsin payment.

is not
Governor Calkins: T h e point I am meking i s i t
o r non-cesnh,
practical f o r u s t o collect items, either c a s h


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Without g u e r a n t s e

worcs, i t i s not neceswor <s
Thet G o s s n o t

“orior endorsement suarantsed”

mean snything.
Is t h e t

iv. H e r r i s o n :

true i f y o u ercorss f o r

collection o n l y ?
Governor C a l k i n s
m
e n ty
MOTE

gusrentesing e l l prior
you.

D o e Ss

of collection only?
Governor

Celkins:

W

h

e re t h e c o l l e c t i o n i t e m i s re-

strictively e n c
¢‘he u s e o f t h e w

supsrfhous, o u r counss

hold Ling t h e t 2

orsement a n d the 1
h c words
u s

SnCox7rs Ss}

sre o r sre n o t used,

ispend largely upon t h e
G e c i s l i o mni csses?

T d o n o t k n o w w h e t h e r t h e c o Oourts
atween a

cash i t e m o n d

collection


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Of [G0Gr ss

s

m quotins f r o m o u r
not c o n c l u s i v e

by

=

d=ei1 sions

in

subiect.

rulings.
he verious banks, w h o
esived t h o s e opinions.

f

heve

o

r opinions, hsve re-

I have given t h e substence o f
counsel

our counsel's opinion,

for the Fedral

Re-

prior c n t o r s s m e n t s

by
, t s rbeiF

by t h e b a n k u n d e r e n c o r s e m e n t
$

for c o l l e c t i o n r e t h e r t h e n t n e

codastituts

3 a warrant

‘bruments

law

e endorser's
n
twarren


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

holiers

i n due course

courss,
W e

MO: by P r e Mite -bae: +

1

9 8 g5Sieev e n i n t h e t l e w

6 “Tnewes

e

n

t

me p r e c t i c e

tae

‘

A

L

L+ r

o f includ-

endorsements suarsntzed",

or words o f similer tenor, h a s developed.
The function o f guarenteesing incursso
with respect t o cssh 3 n d non-cesh items, and.
termined

i f

B E

that

ment s n o u l e

bs

B
er cloln
yNi
tcene a beis

nelwe H S H S neue. b hbout Goes T h o s only question I
chathner o r n o t

ter o f f a c t suerantss
os

“ N O L S SMSnts.

Governor Celkins:
the N e c o
‘2 t i a b l e
in
T i e

e
S

y
a

i r , Kenzel hes just sus

Instruments A

S e e i
c r e

c o v e r s tnet.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

prectice,
enclorsements

on L

e m s unless t h e payment o f a n y s u c h

item l s conting

ssmuents heve been susranteed b y

It s e e m s

t o me,

3

3 S s3

psr a c t i c a l

1 herdly b e fsasible, t h a t y o u
és c o n t i n g e n t u p o n t h e guersntse,

tould y o u cover s u c h 9 trensection i n your bill
Tt would mesn thet y o u w t a

tae

t o single

out every ons--iy. Harrison:

s particularly t r u e i n
T h a t woulcb

case o f d i r e c t sendings.
Governor fsnchner:

Y e s ;

Le. SCemg. 6 0

5 moetter o f hendling
prior e n é o r s e m e n t s
to y o u r c a s h s n d y o u r
Governor Seay:


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

197
NG 2

x25, w

GELS C e e

4

Th

when G o v e r n o r C s l k i n s <civerted t h e d i s c u s s i o n

to another direction, t h e t i n that event i t woulda b e necesy f o r e a c h Fec«ral
r
r eserve e b a n k t o g u a r sa n t é s s n o t i e r

al reserve b a n k thst w h e n i t wes obliged t o g v
s@ e n o o r s e m e n t s

anc

it would guarentee t o that

b

u

t that

ise, o f courses, i t w o u l d n o t guarentee t h e endorsejon i t e m v o u l d b e r e t u r n e d e n d t h e m e t e

O

Governor Young:

anteesda

I

n cirect routings t h e y have suar-

n Minnespolis w e d o n o t send any.

lire Herrison:

s

o

Lz, Strater give h i s epinion,

o

c

d iftea t o h a v e

i n visw o f the discussion

wiich hes -aken plece here and now? P e r h a p s there are
ek

e

y~

Vere o i

ittes i n making its-

S e

slea t o d o thet.

Governor Young hgs re

p o i n t thet this .: r m e n d a =

tion i s contrsry t o our former rem nmencation, t h e t is,
thet s u e r e n t e s s n c o r s e m e n t s

b

e

t

w

e

e

n s l l Federal

The committee's idea there was, vithout lengusse o f t h e letter, t hnS
at


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

vas b e t w e e n F e d e r e l r e s e r v e b a n k s o n l y

handling o f collection items reeeivec

fs %

%
N Z ,
s P
i
Governor
Y o uGnog e h
e s s e v e r5a l nb a
nl s e cr

¢cirect

t o ether

ConnMltyee- w e s

4.

G

a

m

e

hey would assume
if t hd teeeisrFU
oa
Governor Young:

}4

’

s

G e s

o

d wary

V W L S S

a y y

U

O

‘

T

a c t

TASS


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

assume

t o pass

o n

It wes our idea,
thet i t would
prectice,

becomes a custom, s n d i t
courts.

Governor Young:
give a s

a n t :

says t h a t t h e F e d e r a

Y o u s e y i t wes your intention t o
i
B

s n d o r s s m e n t s , s n d our counsel
e

n

k
~

s heve
=

reason

member

~1,

w o y

b a n k a n d non-member

iy, Strater: D o u b t l e s s
e6 d i d n o t s u e s t i o n t h e r e a s o n s @

out thst what this conference h e c ask:
w h i c h w o u l d b e univsrselly
bw m e t h i n g
try t o w o r k o u t s o

accepted = n d b e general with the twelve b e

v

i

t

h ree

spect t o the reconmendsation that w e make i n the report

thet i s under consideration nov, w e felt that the generel
7ag thst there w a s n o requirement f o r a prior
of s n d o r s e m e n t

i n v e r y m e n y czses, t h a t i n m o s t


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

200

cases those items would b e -paid without specific guarentee
W h e t h e r o r not the fect that a

of p r i o r endorsement.

benk's cndorsement appears o n the item i s itself 2 guarentee o r not, i s o f course = izgal question, s n c w e could
not eesume t o decide that.

I t may b e i n spite o f the ab-

sence o f that specific guarantse t h a t t h e guarantee i s

there snyway.
I t is not there i f i t is a restric-

Governor Strong:

enorsement, m a k i n g i t clear thet y o u a r e acting simply
collecting egent.
Vell, t h e t i s 6

Governor Strong:

question,

T h e poiat involved i s whether o r

oak w e h e v e n o t t o d s a l w i t h t w o t y p e s o f endorsements.

one i s a restrictive endorsement w h i c h makes i t clear that
you a r e simply ecting a s e n agent, without t h e usuel responsibility o f t h e unconditional endorser, s n d the second
proposition i s that w e e c d t o these
items,

e w s

collection

i n certain esses, suersntee o f prior sndorsemsnts,

which i s e n enlergsment o f t h e liebility which

“he restrictive collection encorsement only.
t o “S61 vith
_your wndersetending o f the question w e heve
nere?


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

T h s twas m y uncs

tir. Harrison:

reised b y Governor Celkin

prior. ¢
therefore

b expressly
w e d i d n o t s c c o m . l i s h . s n y t h i n gy

nendorgenents?
a
l
og o n

uaratecin i
Governor’ ©

Governor Seay:

L

g with him a t ell

T h a t w e s Gove

ei

ernor Calkins! stetement.
r

Governor Strong: g

e Item for. colisetion,

and make i t olsar that y o u e r e ecting

pessing such title s s you get, with
end ell the equ a

o

u e r e n o t guarentesing sny-

simply saying, “If you pay the money t o
obligation t o pass i t back t o m y customer.”
question here i s shell
o3s n o t m e k e

endorsement o n which woulc guar
unless

i t i s neces

u s lisble


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

202
the G o v e r n x
5
,4
1 ,
o
ax
+
“ 4 a nt
table h e s been thet W w s u a r e n t e e

prior a n c o r s emer
eesh c o l l e c t i o n

r

Strong:
o

n

lection for payment,

r

e

y

v

o

o

u
G

prssen

xz

i f i t contains

benk may sey, " I s m not
esponsibility f o r these prior encdorsebecause I

G o n o t k n o w them; I

have g o t t o l o o k

you snd you have g o t to look t o the presenting b s
/

euerentse t h s 9m:.03

Thst i

endorsement thet impliss

‘then there must be,
letter b e t w e e n

ths


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

2S
that i f G u s y b e v e b o cusrsentee T o a
hardly prcoetical;

i t i s incomplete.

If y o u will

stuff that goes through the collection depsrtment, y o u w i l
pretty g o o d percentage o f it--- I

Gevertior 5

n g

a m not

B u t y o u cic not l o o k into t h e legal
courts

s

o

collecting a g e n

m

e cases, t h e t

w i t h

follow t h e procescs

to be very cerefully worded i n o3

new o r o c e d u r e

FOSS

+4

L o e


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

regard t o
F

I

t Gid n o t feel capsble

e w A w i n e

clo

S l v A i l os

n about
o i thst,
t ss snc
e there
L
nc
is n o g u e s t i o n b u t w h a t s o m s o f t h e s e s m a l l n o n - m e m b e r

y i n g = check un-

benks i n the country w o u l d obiect
e u a e y 2184

u

S

in ths case o f notes,

o

t

h

do. n o t think: t h e t

s

r documents

go through e s col

Governor Seay: e

hole thet it

set u p 2
where n e c e s s a r y
B8Ym™ment
m

.

h

practic:
t o b s ne

o f t h e item?

g

thet t h e

sssume

Governor Seay:
counsel t h e t t h e v e

u
l

o

r mmittes
i
coesa't
t
d voluntarily


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

unless i t i s specizicslly stated t h a t i t i s not 6 guarenSt

Tat m e y b e t r u

Conot believe i t i

u e i n ell states.

which t h e c o m m i t t s e w o u l d n o t u n d e r t s k e

requires

t o

ths

Corsements b y the Federal R e s e r v e Benk, a n d
a: fi
V
O
Reserve B a n k h s s n o t p r e v i o u s l y r e c e i v e d t h e guesrsantes o f

waiich sent i t t o it, t h e n there

that sopeéar o n t h e r e

suarentesd

=

aut

, e r o T eCALs
reM

bank w h i c }

s

e

i

s lecking thse


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

in

bank s/whi ch
» S O thet t i s

2 suarentee i n thet
there,
V e r y much so, particulerly i n the

lire Herrison:

I

cese o f direct sendings.

f the Netionel City sencs

direct t o t h e Federal Reserve B s n k o f Cleveland, t h e
edersl Reserve B a n k o f Clevelsnd m e k e s presentation e n a
endorsements i s necessary
the C l e v e l e n d B a r k s s y s ~

it nes n o t been sent unde
New York,
But S 2 5 0

baa nk/.6- i s

Cleveland would d o it, without t n e
Governor Fsnehsr:

I ns

osse o f t h

“oral R e s e r v e B e n k s w o u l d c o v e r
transection.

Governor Seey:

T h e t i s t h e point.

I t would b e

necessary t o have s u c h a istter between t h e Fed:ral Reserve B e n k s .


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Governor Young:
sent, giving t h e
Governor strong:

I s i t understood thet

susrentes prior s m o r s s n s
member bank, f r o m which t h e i t e m
to u s ?

cotitusel i s o f t h e opinion’ t h e

aw t h a t

which the

endorsement i s forged, collects t n e
a
e
d
4royee dirsetly o r through 3 n

the return o f ths money;
such 2

i t;

s9lso t h e l o w that

Gusek b e s r i n g s

foresd

5 pont o w e r i s responsible t o the
his
sfter t h e procseas haves b e e n turned over t o

In other words, i f a feterel
bar e n item endorsed f o r collsction,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

208
mere sgent f o r t h e collection, a n d

egerve bank becomes a

it does n o t guarantee prior sndorsements, i t s lie bility
when i t h a s c o l l e c t e d t h e m o n e y s n d t u r n e d i t over

s m o f t h e opinion that i t i s i

principal. I

1g terminete t h e liebility o f the Fedsrel
rve bank upon t h e completion o f the collection e n d
turning over o f t h e money t o the appsrent owner."
Governor Strong:

T h e t i s just t n e point.

stand y o u c e n follow t h e proceeds bsck, b u t h e cannot hold
you j.efter y o u h e v e e c c o u n t e d f o r i t .

Governor Biggs: T

would like t o submit t h e opinion

of our counsel o n thet.

g to the w i r y conteined i n your memorandcur

of April 30th, reletive t o "prior sncorsenent guaranteed",
I have a g s i n g o n e o v e r t h e mstter
change m y v i c w s

s n a

# s expressed

c o f i n d nothing

i n t h e memorsnadum Y u r -

nished under dates o f Jsnuery 3 r d e n d #sbruery 13th,

eserve A c t intondsd t h e t t h s d e r :
guersntes endorssments;

for,

S

s s

benks should


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

guersntseing o e n c o r s e m e n t s ,

the requir ements
a

t a n

e

a
o
STrev g oS ‘u s b y ore S e r es:

-~ q x

anks o f recuiring that
So oreenate

es 2

ipened

to such usage ¢ ! w o u l d b e prsctically impossible
to -sscurs vrormipt p e y m e n

f

- eollection L t e m s i f tic
orior e n c o r s s m sthn
nts.

py

mstter a f practical operation,
4

“oresd

t o msks this

d g e e m to b e n o s u t h n o r i t y uv

to m s k e r a c o m m e n c a t i o n s

orted t o t h e
t h i s e u b i e e t r e p Fs
ne t h e u n l i o r m e n c o r s e n s :

rel Reserve

benks

i n their

submitted t o e

Boerd i t was moved G o v e r n o r

seconced b y Governor MeKinney s n a cerris« t u s t


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

210
the conference unenimously agree u p o n t h e form o f uniform
an“orgsement reco.mended b y t h e committee, o n d that its ection b e communicated t o t h e Federal Reserve Boerd i n
order t h e t the Board m s y make s n y chenges t h a t i t mignt
consicer necessary i n Resuletion J .
This matter h a s thus been brought t o t h e sttention o f

Federal Reserve Boers, e n d i t seems t o me thst there
for u s t o d o i n t h e metter until t h e Board
chenged i t s regulation o r directed t h e Federal
reserve b a n k s t o d i s c o n t i n u e

Gov«rnor Norris: T

t o guarentee endorsements."

note thet Regulation J, Series

of 1923, n o t yet effective, states t h e t a Federal reserve
i t s o w n neglibank w i l l e s s u m e n o l i s b i l i t y e x c e p t e s t o

8, o n d 9 s guesrantee o f prior endorsements, whereas

Regulation J of 1920 merely states that the Federal Reserve
< will essume n o liability except for negligence, a n d
specifically t o checks, I
in the collection o f noncash iters 3 s well.
Toe Chairman:

e r e “isT h e w e y t h e metter s t e n i s w e

working o n 8 unicusd g ¢ non-cash items a n d t h e system i s
form b e s i s e x c e p t w i t h r e s p e c t

t o ‘ n e Minnespolis B a n k ,

6s


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

L unceratend. it.
Governor Young:

T h e t i s not *uite sceurate, i r .

Sneirman,
number

iy. H a r r i s o n : A

o f t h e reserve

b a n k s cdo

guerontee prior ancorsements o n non-cash collections.
knor t h e New York Benk foes not.
The Cis irinan:

Y e e r e only consid r i n g non-cash

lections now, s s I understanca it.
Governor Young:
Peg

e s O u t Ot: - Line's

inneapolis
A

s 9

i s n o t the only one

matter o f fact, I

i\innespolis i s going t o srgue about this.
to guarantees p r i o r e n d o r s e m e n t s

do not think

W e are willing

i f w e h a n d l e sny.

Tis objection i s thst liinneapolis does
not care t o include i n the blenket guarantee a l l o f its
riembsr o r non-member banks,
Governor Young:

T h a t i s correct.

T h e r e i s n o oc=

cession f o r discussing thet, becesuse t h a t has b e e n t k
general practice f o r two years,

o r a year e n d s half a t

ond liinuneeapolis h e s n - v e r d i s turbed a n y o t h e r r e directly,
serve b e n k b y h e v i n s s o m e m e m b e r b a n k s e n d i t e m s

up.
Ms cuestion has never come u p s n d i t never will c o m e
to
Tf i t Coes come u p $11 you hevs t o d o i s t o refuse


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

hendle it.
Toes Chairmen: G o n t L e m e n ,
snd I

think

conmittese

be not guarsnteed,
Governor Young:

T h e only thing

was t h e f a c t t h e t i t w a s 9
aslresdy b e i n g done,

done.

2

T h a t is 2

contradiction o f

w i e n y o u recommend

ze©

contradiction,

thet

i t not

e n d I intend t o show

seversl o t h e r c o n t r a d i c t i o n s

If there i s n o objection,

CHARGES

w e will

O N UNPAID C o

collectsa

from tne

istrict i n which they originatec

Submitted

question w e s
“mel reserve

b y Kans


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

mmerciel b a n k s

in 9

m6

they require t h e t
usndling non-cssh- coltem b u t n o 4
m the r e p o r t o f t h i s
of Governors
Poe.

n

m Sheer © .

o f October

Ss

On sccount o f t h e s m e l l s m o u n t s
numsrous e n t r i e s w h i c h w o u l d b s

Cormmittes recommends t h e t t h e Feceral reserve benics
Tike

n o > C i e xr

Zstion should b e followed, e v e n though i t
the c o l l e c t i n g

ge t o the
chars
ent w h e n s v s r e n } t e m s o f t a i s
unpe1ic.

BANKS STIRS D e o 3

Submit

eG


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

214
The committ’e i s o f the opinion t h s t notics o f
itions to, o r withdrewels f r o m the par list, t s cesirsble whenever s u c h sdditions o r withdrewis becoie siriective previous t o the date w h e n t h e semi-annual p s r list
or the monthly supplement t o the p a r list a r e usually
in circulation b y the Federal Reserve Board.
The Conmittese sucgests, however, t n e t non-member banks
Which e x o r e s s t h e i r i n t e n t i o n

t o withdraw f r o m t h e p e r

P|
list b e induced, whenever possible,

t o continue t o remit

usual course
for their items a t par, until notices i n the
Fecerel reserve
ean b e given t o all member banks e n d all

of
banks which, o f course, would obviate the necessity
b - y wire.
notifying other Fed:ral reserve banks
NON-CASH COLLECSHOULD FEDERAL R E S E R V E BANKS HANDLE A S
NON-i.2LBER BANKS,
PIONS CMTPIPFICATES O F DEPOSIT DRAWN B Y
R= NOT O N T H E P A R

Submitted

b y S t e louis.

o* t h e F e d s r e l R e s e r v e B o e r d c o n t a i n s

check foot note t h e following definition o f 4
o r ordsr
in check i s generslly acfinec a s §& draft
t o b e C P BW n
upon s benk o r benking house, purporting


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

gia
upon 3 2eposit o f funds, f o r t h e payment s t sll events
of c e r t a i n s u m of money t o = certsin person therein

or to him, o r t o his order, o r t o besrer, a n d

instantly o n demand."
Committee
LS p o s i t
of c e

i s o f t h e opinion t h s t s

certificates

does n o t come within t h i s clessificat

het t h e F e d e r a l r e s e r v e b a n k s a r e t h e r e f o r e n o t prohib-

ited from hsndling s u c h e n item for collection s v e n
non-member

bank which has not

Fec:ral

one o f
serve Board hes definitely r u l e d i n a letter t o
o f isposit i s
the Federsl reserve banks t h a t = certificate

in sffect © promissory note of the bank imamahiomg issuing
it end that i t i s thersfore permissible t o receive a

cere

tificate o f ceposit f o r collection & 5 9 non-cash i t e m and
¢ charges w h e n
thet t h e issuing bank m s y exact e n exchang

making remittance therefor.

ORAUN
THE HANDLING OF NON-GAsH COLIZOTION ITE.S
URXHANGE” ADDED.
Submitted

b y N e w York.

b y o n e o f t h e Federal r s s

ac

s topic w a s p r e s e n t e d


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

existing rules t h e

elsering house o f

e i ‘ e g u i r e s 5 1 1 clearing houcs
T

members t o impose °

a

y ns

a
of non-cssh items Ceposited w i t h

With t h e e x c e p t i o n o f i t e m s o n o
Because o f t h e f e c t

p?)
the clearing house benks) either refuse t o

s

o

-

esllead c o l l e c t i o n cherg:

prectice o f the elssring house benks,

i n meny

to s d d t o
syount s u f f i c i e n t

house rule.
vrasults

t

t o meet

e Aaa

ee

i n e n alteration

c r e w n forse
spperently
Sad

is, the worcs
customer peyeble “with exchenge"; thet
bocy o f the cHett
Gwith exenange”, e r e written i n the


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

ear
which t h s amount i s writte:c i n
sarg t o ° s the universal undoersts

sxcicnge” when written i n
body o f 9 dreft mweens thet t h e collsecting bank
to Goliect f r o
érawn, c a d

n e p s

h e r 3

s

m f o r which t h e

u

Soy coarge to. b é macs b y the ‘benk

f collecting end

o

Selleeting ths. item f

remitting, s u c h cherge mist b e

l e c t e f r o m t h e psyer a n d

the face smount i n any svent remittec
entirely eccording t o custom.

M i s preetice i s

I t is, however, n o t cus-

tomary i n s u c h cases f o r t h e s m o u n t O F

ot sll, b u t merely t o note i n the instruction t h a t

syeble “with sxehenge’.
ag the question und«r consideration i s concernec,
no different, however, f r o m those n o t crewn psyeble
exenange”, beceuse t h e “exchenge” cherge
tue b o d y o f s u c h i t e s

collecting bank f o r 2

c o l l e c t i o n

n s the 1 t s n
_ean iay#1ae

house h e v k f o r a g n d l i n g
crawer,

L t s customer. A

collection

erroneously called “exhienge") i s me


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

and.
for t h a t senyicss

not drawn paysble
from t h e

remitted

with the

e x c h a n g e ” written

collsectiig b e n k w

u n c e r s t a n d thst the fs

beremitted s n d t h a t t h e collsction cherge
payor i n eddition t o ths face
64must g9lso b e rememberec t h e t 9 great m m y collec- 5
tion i t e m s p e y e b l e

i n Federsl r e s e r v e b a n k s n d
benks

without making
easés,

i t woulc snpsar o n t h e

en exchenge cnargs
> L S the charge w h i c h t h e cles

expret to. b e collseted f r o m the
benks s h o u l d n o t
Teo
from the peyer o f sn i t e m o r require t h e i r sgent b e n s

t
o
. d é m s n a f r o m t h e payer, ¢
is b e i n g c o l l e c t e c

f

t h e benk f o r which

i n addition

t o the


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

psyer o f a n item t o pay
vice w h e n n o c h a r s e i s m e d e f o r t h e t s e r v i c e
i n view o f t h e f a c t t h e t i t
ly
e true
a

icult t o make t h e banks e n d the public u n c
believe t h s t t h e F e : l - r e s s r v

the exchenge which has b e e n
The idea might b e circuleted a n d

mace, through ignorance o r intent, that the
T h i s latter reason, hor-

exchange,

incidental a n d 7o¢es n o t influsnes t h e
nmittee

i n “seiding o n t h e principle

involved.
Tt i s the opinion o f t h e Committee t h e t non-cesh
x
Ha
Wwe

g members must charge
such items, s
of thse b a n k

cherge should b e paid b s


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Evom. t a 6 - 8
RSS a
c

Governor C e l k i n s
1 Beye

n
wober=y|
i
Ltents ,contain7 “g 0 reisrence

4... THE: pare

Sxcnen

b

u

t which s r e sent

With S32

cover t h e clearing houss
Governor Sesy: A p r o p o s o f that

bark,
s

im n
oregr s o


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

eek
Letter todey f r o m t h e benk inelucing s

conmunication f r o m

s Richmond Brokerege concern steting thet « New York confor w h i c h s n e x c h e n g e
saci t i o n t h e r s w a s

a n

cays, amounting t o

thet p e e -conmmn1 FES

Governor S e s

a d u n d e r consiceretion.
>

m e a t w a s n o t collseteca b y the Rich-

o Tle. mFede
Tt

a 1

iar 3,
I

C

h

a

a bj

Faln ne e nn :s

PA

Wa J2
wg

r T

V i n s

§o

n

G a EEC
+E

i : Vo

)

i

n

G e

o

x

=

c

h

e

r g &
}

wast?
under t h e N e w Y o r k c l e a r i n g h o u s e r u l e s , p l u s
Governor

5 ¢w oee y : ,

Et N e w

York

firm

thet

dsposited

thet croft with the e r i n g nouse bank made s charge, becsuse t h e c l e s r i n g oO h o u s s

being o n e tsnth,

an
house b a n k
to c o v e r i n t e r e s t

ot 3

end i n s d d t i o n t o t h a t i t m:

of the seme smount, 13.08.

r

h

) a t e f o r six


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

222
ir, Harrison:

3

, according t o the

correspondencs, where one o f our member banks sent the i t e m
cirect t o Richmond.
may heve come t o u s from t h e
Bank; I

c o n o t know.

letter s h o w s t h s t i t c a m e
Liechenics

M e t e l g Bank.

Casirman: G e n t i s m e n ,

F h 2VS

at vr, Gilbsrt. w o u l ’ l i k e
mest w i s G o v e r n o r s .

y e s

G o v e r n o r

would b e very
to peuse l o n s enough t o
just -recsivec f r o m lr.

benk i n e
anc c l o s e
this a f t e r Governor

Governor iicKinney s o m

s

y

m

ps
t
:4

Oklehome, w h e r e

a

n

ay a r
rLlole
d will b e burris


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

225
to frame s n sporopriatse
send i t t o Governor MeKinney,
mis report, it. s e e s t o m e
return s n d cive consicaration t o tne first
is, t o t h e subject matter ceslt

with there, which refers t o the fsct thet there i s 9 lack
of uniformity, s n d the committee believes thet i t has
done everythine w h i c h i t c a n d o with propristy i n sttempting t o bring sbout uniformity i n the check collection
anc n o n - c a s h c o l l e c t i o n c i r c u l e r s

o f t h e various Fedcral

sble purpose must n o w b e left t o t h e
Governors.
Now, gentlemen, wheat i s your
matter?
Governor Y

+

e G o o irmen, 1

k

time o n this a t t h e lest t h r e e meetings, e n d f e e l
I mien. consume more b i s .
to
else I

o

u

E i t h e r I heave lecksd sbility
r cis trict: properly,

have n o t good a s o n i n g powers. I

whst i t is, b u t will t r y i t once more. I

@&

co not know
w a t to start

by saying t h e t y o u c a m o t collect checks o r non-cssh i t e s


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

on b a n k s t h s t c e n n o t

t

psy

e esnaoebSs-.-d

what t h e l e w i s .

nismenigement o n d because o l
pelled, u n d e r S e c t i o n a p Oe

thet i t hss e n y perticular
hevs besring a n the non-member
u
r up i n
fo n o t h e v s s a o l d - f s s h i o n e a n

Sistrict.
mana cosh.

P c o p l e d o not g o t o t h e countsr e n d aee-

T a e y heve w h e t they csll =

depositor knows h e probebly m u l a

‘silent run.

m t

goes t o the countsr o f t h e
cashisr

01

So, ‘through 2
matured,

bo. £ 2 pesit
then r o u t e d
to t h a t i n s t i t u t i o n ,
assumed f a r 3 2
nart

n e wW t h e t t h e r s wes n o

o f the Federel

Reserve

Bank

o f sS.innea!

sendingake0) a n item u p there either t o 4 member

end

T h e


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

thet w e s h o u l

hen t h e question srose what i s c u e care

the exeminer's report before
member benk, which

w

s it i s not i n good ¢

and t h e t o u r S x e c u t i v e C o m m i t t e e w o u l d n o t b e
to l e n d a n y m o r e m o n e y t o t h e t b a n k I

thet

bank hes been slow i n remitting t o u s f o r 2 month o r

several weeks, o r what not, I think any jury i n the Unite
tates would convict u s o f noglis
items u p there.

h

e

r

e is

thet w e cen prot sct ourselves,

w

2 h

y i n the world

a

t

o

. Sena = per

sonel representative.

only have o n e benk a t 9
me r i g h t now, t h e s a m e k i n d o f r e p o r t t h a t i s l s

avery morning, showing 884 transit items i n the
Jinncapolis office alone thst ere all the way from one t o
ten days lates.

W e cennot s e n d 2man out t o Gach one o f

those places.

we t a k e j u s t 9 s m u c h c n a n c e @ S W e p o

and have been doing thst f o r three years.
is
finslly c o m e t o the place where t h e member b a k


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Or

BAe

thet y o u have t o send a representative o u t thers, i f you
can possibly g e t hold o f one,

Y o u camot s e n d the tram

you cennot send the head o f t h e depertment,
but y o u heve

man out there w h o has judgment

S O x2

to hsndle t h e situation;

a n d when your m e n does

up
he finds t h e t t h e bank has chargeca
—)

4

*

=

)

LSESUSC s

cashier's check upon itself, o r they have issued

areft upon t h e F e d r a l Reserve B a n k that i s not good,
sud y o u e r e confronted w i t h t w o concitions i n order t o
protect yourself.

O n e i s t o seek recourses through t h e

courts, w h i c h precipitates closing t h e benk, 3 n d then
y o u c é n g o t o that b a n k a n d try

you haven't enything, a

yourto get what y o u c e n out o f i t s portfolio t o protect
self,

N o w , i f you send more items o u t t o that bank

whet you
“wnder those conditions there i s n o question b u t
are guilty o f negligence.
Now, w e have t o undertake t h e t risk with o u r member
to
banks, S e c t i o n 1 6 o f the Act apgarently uv compels u s
send t h o s s i t e m s o u t .

T h e resul

h

e Federal Reserve

Bank o f Minneapolis h a s made 6 great number o f sdvances
tO
to member benks i n its district t h a t i t dia n o t care
make, l o a n s f o r c e d u p o n o u r institution.

T h e r e i s nothing


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

serious e b o u t t h e t

st h o w m u c h o u r b e n k h a s

so

ybocy clse knows,

do
h n o t think m

a

lost I G o not know.

thousear dollars t r y i n g

eilthnough L I heave spént,

loss

get t h e information.

co not know whether

000 s t I

gsnothine serious 2bout
those conditions continus,

end o u r m e t h o d s

o f hand

i t i s only =

checks continve,

out there, beceuse w e won't
will b e dealing w i t h

ITwant t o modify t h a t 2
you t o g s t h e r

O

r

e
cet

L 86 net want

i

the c n a i t i o n d

s
3

i

]

S

c

a

L

sll o f o u r member b s n k s

yrotect t h e m -

r e d t Wi Gite
you s r e b o t hneSs

Governor Young:

@ member b a n k

n difficulty i t don't p a y e n y sttention t o our t i
ule,

o r whether t h e y c a n c o l l e c t q u i c k e r

is

fon
sia

b y sending

S e


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

themselves;

t h e y just route t h r o u g h U S

i a mcesuce)eb
retty quickly when ® bani i s i n d i f f lty,
hing begins t o come through us.

T h e y don't nmdle c a s h items o r

4

Governor Harding:

collections J i r e c t t o t h e t b a n k t h a

A G Y

( 7 2 8 Oo. Boge?

N o t i f they c a n

Gor trnor Young:
ml

Governor Herding:

T h e y co

them, don’t they?
Governor

ung:

n e y s e n d t h e m over t o US.

C O W er neG

them?
e d

Governor Young: F r o m member
Governor Herding:
n d e 5
Governor Young: :

lew w i t h regsrd t o msem-~

ber b a n k s - - -

esefully.
the Currency
aminers.

ave G o n e 2 9 very “0o-.
7

been
greet m a n y o f t h o s e b a n k s h a v e


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Closing o f ¢

t migit have b e e n seved.

a

I f you should uncerteks t o

Governor USalkins:

member b a n k y o u woulc precipi-

to eccept items u r e 5

a S promptly.

tate the closing o fthe benk }
a

Governor f

v

e s u g g e s t e d thet.
oa]

Governor

U en

k n o w ,

b u t Governor

P e r o t ox cain

Go that, anc. we
have tried

9

W

)

e

e o n e c h e a d s n d take

the loss a n d sssumsd t h e

Now, comins d o w n t o t n e non-iember banks,

wes i n 1920, o r 1921, I
handling t h e s s

ling those items.

t

do not know which i t we

s upon non-member banks i n sood

E v e r y s o often w e

thet could not remit, o r would n o t remit, o n c
snd h e w o u l d f i n d t h a t t h e c h e c k s h


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

e

3 4s ti8h w y

h Sé

thems 31

and the only thing you

wes to go into thet

d l
o c
d ou under

you c o u l s find.

bank's portfolio

e continustion

289 n o n of t n e i n
months

efore t h e y
3 cash L t e m o r

C Ligens
S A

ea

not b e e n satis fezctory.

Now, this conmictes,
report o f
bam
CG Le c h e c k s

cannot collect on,

Thet

upon

s whet I objectec

whot w e will n o t o ¢2YSe T O
o

Theo
sum

T the

whole t h i n g up, w e will sgree t o


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

s, but w e will not egree t o try
n benks t h e t
te‘

1 PeLLeve
7S

v e@

Uh

cannot
"
i
ecollect upon.

2

ee x

~

t o cole

o L U 0 - B L O R

O n

C O G

oY

mitted promptly i n sne
OG

t O sae

where i t woulc i n v o l v s

T a p s
ano ther
:7
POeSSrve

wea
Federal

pD e
l ke ,
an

1 only
aif-

bank m i g n t o v e r - s t a

5:

thing

t h e proposition,

has.
Fe L N

4

i s jus

es

or f o n e c e s h i t e m s o n

r

a

d

w i l l sectis

the whols thing
Governor Fancher:

y

o

u w a n t t o call o n t.¢ non-


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

&

7
Ba

yourself t
o

Governor Young
Leet upon.
Governor Frncher:
ually racuced

H

o s r y o u r par list

b y voluntary withdrawals s i n c e

Court D e c i s i o n s ?

Tnen, w i t h those benks t h a t y o u
thet h e v e n o t b e s n r e m i t t i n g s a t i s f a c putting

t h e m off t h e p e r l i s t ?

Governor Young:
Governor ffncnser:

@el t h a t 2

bank i s

all right s n c there i s ¢ possibility o f collecting,

we

heve s e n t those items o u t beceuss w e thougnt that they
would b e peid, were v

r e f u s¢

s e n d t h e m out w e

would heve t o give & @ t p l e n e t i o n s n d thet m i g h t b e
tle cengerous.
you confid:ntislly
I think


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

to r e l i e v e
$0 C O m e

x e1

s n d .ennouncs

any non-cosh items o r cash items o n

sey “thet will n o t remi'
FMsacher:

T

t i s not o n l y ®

question o f r e -

a question o f t h e solvency o f t h e i n -

Governor Y o u n g :

The Cheirmen:

h y not say thet you will not col& ren

n

g satisfactorily?

tee e
on benks t h

t

Governor Young:

T a s t would cover 8

benk t h e t romittt.

but insisted o n deducting for

wrong e n c then y o u would haves
law s u i t o n y o u r hencs.

Y o u c a n g s t o w e y f r o m t h s w h o le

thing b y just saying t h e t y o u Will n o t hendle items crawn
on non-perring benks.
me Chairmen:

Y o u s r e speaking n o w w i t h r

to n o n - c a s h i t e m s e x c l u s i v e l y ?


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Governor Young:
The Cheirmen:
Governor Young:

Yes.

Governor Gslkins:

B u t you a r e i n difficulty there.

you receive f r o m snother benk a n item for collection,
y

cash o r non-cash, y o u
to c o l l e c t t h a t item.

I

o

u

r

Z y o u return thet i t e m

nieking e n attempt t o collect i t you o r e heid

Governor Young: I

a m not doing thet.

E v e r y Gover-

w
nor hes g o n e o n record thet i n 2 case o f thst k i n c
gent, t h a t w e will

pe By

rignt t o notify t h s principal,

2¢ s n i t e m o f t h e b k i t

wire y o u thse conditions

Governor Sesy:
¢

&
e m u s s sa

otner
liebility t h s t w a y f h a n assume i t t h e

ir, Strater:

W r . Cheirmsn, Governor Young has

tist t h e c o m m i t t e e h e s r e c o w m e n c e d t h s t
collect c h e c k s o n s l l n o n - m e m b e r benks.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Zot
feulerly
as s u m e

ay
mL

Foot

dil

the c o m m i t t s e

t o checks,

h a s never

bank wheat i t s h e l l o r

o
Ct

Shama CaS

to. t n i e p a r t
the c o n d i t i o n s

protection, e n d

uncer t h o s e c o n d i t i

tor d n s truetionus,s

uniform Liability

(Continuing)
perasraph o f t h e report o f

the c o m m i t t e e

p erticuler refe:

a

cere o f t h e

~ 7

Yes

(Interpos ing):
a
fd

1¥

Benk o f M i n n e a p

ao

SS

ceks

}

h

aydobemosS

o r nonecssh i t e m s

not

cs

Governor F e n c h s r :

when y o u s e n d


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

rovernor Young:

And t h e n s o m e transit m a n e g s r o f

by t h e Board

cttsntion t o something tnat was
+

Aan

NFbe Governors

thet I

voted upon, e n d i f I cic

never

voted n o .
T would like t o e s k

Do y o u a r b i t r e r i l y
ke t h a t point
i. S t R e G a n s

hi s8-paz
I hove n o t e x e c t l y u n d e
a

of such 5 telegram,

thet wa.

-eGall o n s non-cash item, e n c prob-

received

ably o n 3 non-per bank,
% snovia b s
Pea e e e

ae gu a t t o a s k our
O
endorsers

Whe thor t h e y e r e w w

tg

r o si tanc
l l
bee

a s

aid y o u

Governor Young:

Stra

whet w a s absolutely

them n o i n f o r m a t i o n

necsssery, t h a t

w

e

r

e prob-


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

or

t h i n g of

the tronsaction.

Y o u < h a v e c o t t o teal

them something, a n d w e would n o t uncertake t o essume re~sponsibility without going beck t o o u r Sndorser.
Governor Fancher: T h e n , w W h e n y o u have f o u n d ebank
het sort, s n d you have wired t o us, 4 s y o u c i d t h e
other day--- s n d w e will assume this might b e a cash
you t a k e t h e t b a n k o f f the p e r l i s t ?

Governor Young: y

2

a d i t off the par List

before that.
Governor Fancher:

A n d sfter y o u have notified u s

you w o u l d n o t haflle t h e c h e c k ?

Governor Young:'

W e would n o t hendle it, no.

Governor F e n c h e r :

het

Governor Young:

word?

T f thet check ceme i n

got the notice, w e would probably wire you,
Governor Fancher:

Y o u r present polic:

t h e t when

you f i n d 2 bank thes h e s
and whose returns s r e n o t satisfactory, y o u s r e
give o f t h e situation, t h e n y o u take that bank o f f


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

par l i s t e n d n o t i f y t h e o t h e r F e d e r a l

Governor Young:

Yes.
A n d y o u a r e gracuslly clea

Governor Fancher:

that situation u p b y the r e d u c t i o n

o f your per list suto-

meticelly a s y o u g o 8 long ; t h a t is, a s eesch sore spot
is untovereda, y o u tek? T t off?
Governor Young:

Y e s .
A n d y o u t r y t o mnticipate

Governor Fencher:

times, w h e n y o u know t h a t they a r e i n trouble, s n d you
take t h e m off,

m d y o u r par list i s g a d u a l l y b e i n g r e -

duced right elong?
Governor Young:

W e have thet condition right now.

It i s rather hard t o enswer @
‘Ye d o different things.

question e s t o what w e d

F o r stancs,

bank i n t h e State o f South Dekote, s
Reserve System, whoss

i

t~c

w e heve t h e l a

member o f

s a r e between s i x

g
Ls]

million Collars.

1 4 5 1 § c o r r e s p o n d t n t s t w o hundre

4: the Stete o f South Dakota.

‘ea conceived ¢

T h e first o f this year

7 9 a of orgenizing a new state benk

and taking over that bank, w h i c h sutoma tically t o o k i t m t
of the System.

I t wesn't t h e best institution i n the

world w h i l e i t w a s a

member.

W

e m:

n

e

w exemination


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

a

ox t h e institution,

sent e

report d o w n t o t h e

serve Board w i t h the recormendetion t h a t they n o t b e per52d t o bocome m e m b e r s

o f t h e F e d e r e l R e s e r v e System.

The Boerd agreed with that e n d s

t h e y would permit t h e m

to become members w h e n they h a d accomplished certain
things.

N o w , t h e t b a n k i s not unlike certain other

in Milwaukee, Sioux City, Cedar Rapids, o r where not,
esmot cemand payment i n lLinneapolis exchange;

suppose N e w York c o u l d c o that, because

practicable. I
everybody

i t i s im-

h a s e N e w Y o r k account,

b u t Chicsgo c a m o t

do

ity
Kanses/@onnot d o it, a n d Minnespolis csnnot c o it,
I assume D a l l a s c a n n o t d o it.

W

e accept a

not immedistely evaileble.

whole l o t

N o w ,

care down a a complsined t h a t w e were forcing
banks t o open u p sccounts i n liinneapolis e n d St.
~
, because w e demanded that kim o f exchange. I

cited what Chicago w a s doing e n d what they w e r e d o i m
other places,

s o with those institutions

cept Sioux Fells

7

c

i n

w e agreed t o ace

. a n d when w e got that w e sent it

out t o t h e Sioux Fslls Bank, getting o u t there inside o f
hours, a n d the checks w e r e e l l right a n d t h e crafts
twelve
!?
were a l l right.


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

(After informel < 4 cussion: )
think w e h a d b e t t s r c i s t

The Chairman: I

subject.

T h e committee ssys, “Ths committes

it has d o n e e v e r y t h i n g w h i c h i t c m ©

w i t h pri;

attempting t o bring atout uniformity i n the check collection e n d non-cash collection circulars o f the various
Federal Reserve Banks, a n d that t h e accomplishment o f this
very desirable purpose must n o w b e left t o theConference o f

Governors,”
I a m setisfied w i t h t h e report t h a t y o u have m a c e
thet

w e cannot

g&o a n y f u r t h e r

a t p
ir e s e n t

ect
w i t h r e s ps

t o

think there i s s g o d <csal i n

the Minneapolis Bank. I
wheat y o u say.

(At this

‘

T

i

s U n d e r Seerstary o f the

n

Treesury, a n d
the Treesury,
Gilbert,

w e would like t o haves

a word f r o m you, a n d from ir. Winston,
enything t o the Conference.

i f you cars t o s e y


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

nee G i i b e r t < I

do n o t think I

héve

about your program, a s I do not know what
I have just come back sfter =» two months! holidey
have n o t taken u p t h e t i a s
afternoon s i m p l y t o s s y h e l l o

m

e a r o u n d this

t o e v e r y b o d y s n d t o intro-

duce Mr. Winston t o you, a n d then t o s a y goodbrs. 4
expect t o b s back i n New York o n Monday morning, e n d a m
going t o t r y t o b e a lawyer egsin.
I want t o s a y I
ciations t h a t I

will n e v e r f o r g s t t h e p l e a s a n t a s s o -

heve h e d h e r e w i t h y o u all, b o t h i n Yash-

end i n o u r r e l a t i o n s

i n a

Treasury7 f o r sll these years.

fiscal w o r k o f t h e

Y o u r support h s s meant

everything t o t h e Tressury operstions, e n d I

can never

thenk y o u a l l enough f o r everything y o u have cone.
The Chairman: I

e m sure, i n reply, t h e t I can speak

for the Conference when I say thet i t has been a great
satisfaction t o have h a d opportunity t o work with you,

em

we w i s h y o u e v e r y success.

ir. Winston: G e n t l e m e n ,

i t i s @ greet pleasu

me to be given opportunity t o take up this work
meet y o u pappls, people w i t h w h o m I have corres pona¢
but whom I have n o t had t h e pleasure o f meeting before. I


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

241
heve h e a r d f r o m Mr, G i l b e r t h o w r e l i a b l e y o u a r e e n d w h a t
support y o u h a v e b e e n t o t h e Treasury.

I have h e d just one little experience w i t h your
Chairmen here,

i n a little metter t h a t hag care up, a n d

he hsendled it s s e Scotchman should hmdle it, without
sny guestion.

T h a t is, h e d i d the right think e n d then

told u s whet h e had done. I

fsel sure thst working t o -

gether with y o u I will g e t a great d e a l out o f this
Tres sury position.

(After further informal discussion lir, G i l b e r t e n d
My. ‘Tinston left t h e conference room, whereupon t h e Conferences o f Governors procsedsc 2 s follows: )
The Chairmen:

N o w , gentlemen, t h e subject before

us i s o n t h e sdoption o f this report.
Governor Fancher:

O n page 2

there i s = reconmenda-

tion submitted b y t h e Federal Reserve B a n k o f St- louis

with regard t o bills o f exchenge, e n d the commit tee seys:
‘chile the committee i s of the opinion that Federal
reserve b a k s ,

a s s genersl rule, s h o u l c n o t b e sermitted

to r o u t e c o l l e c t i o n i t e m s d i r e c t

banks o f other districts,

t o member a n d nonemember

i t i s believed t h a t f o r obvious

essons t h e B o a r d s h o u l d a m e n d i t s p r e s e n t r u l i n g ,

s o


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

om

is t o permit Federal R e s e r v e Banks,

in

to route a n y documentery draft payeble
whether s u c h draft b e purchesed, discounted,

or

ceived for collection, dir=ct t o the point o f payment
another district, b u t only when the Federal rcserve banks
specifically r e q u e s t e d

d

o s o b y t h e member b e n k

which sslls, rediscounts, o r cspos

Governor S e a y :

h

ié

f

f o r collection such

t h e report w o u l d c a r r y

with i t aporoval o f thet recommendation?
Governor F a n c h e r :

Y e s .

I move t h e t t h e r e p o r t b e

this m e t t e r ?
<r "

Governor “Youtie: I

i

b

a

i i°

will have t o vote “ N o ” o n it,

n't you think a n smencment c o
which would cover t h e situation?

Governor Young: I

think s n emencmer

which w o u l d c o v e r t h e situation.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

to a t o u r benk.
st l i b e r t y t o v o t e

no, Governor Young.
Governor Vellborn:
non-cesh i t e m s ?
Chairman:

Governor Seay: ‘ h i l e I
port, I

moved t h e sdo.fion o f

believe t h a t i t will still

Stending Committee o n Collections t o meke a furth
m sndation covering t h s mis
we h a v e p r e v i o u s l y discuss¢da,
sn t h e F e d e r a l r e s e r v e b e n k s w i l l b e

+ Jo n o t think thet need sffect sction o n
The Cheirmsen: G o v e r n o r Young,
sinsat b e f o r e w e v o t e o n this?

Governor Young: ° A c t i o n o n this report
ctually covers a l l o f t h e
some things i n this
would like t o discuss further.
-4dnnespolis snould p u t o u t t h t u n i f o r m circuler,.

n e

It doesn't ssy enything sbout
a non-cash circular,

O f course,

We°

-.:4 .

Gould not


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

244
tne o t h e r s .

IP s a t )
we2 Fagg
li
anale

n o nae c s s he

Ye d o n o t w a n t t o
Bye aatelat

banks not locatec
g -Mpon c A e iur

fece t h Le n o t e t i o n

for immediate aveilsbility i
fe

sg b c eh en c ke s t

swn o n b a nPkan

the Pecerel
North Dskota, s n d
ank o f Minneapolis, a n a

sd
e eF
l aRree
eserve

St. e n e

went u s t o c r e d i t a s M i n c e a p o l i s

do t h e y

o r as of ecina

Governor Young:
The Chsirmen:

r

Governor Young:
,

s

p

y

recomzended

r

o

i n the

v

r

i

n

g t o t h e sierch report

YSs.e
e thisZ

report w e s p xrove w n s t W s

T circuler.
h
i
former

s w h o l e matter


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

because o f w a r r a n t s t h a t thi

Those warrants e r e payeblis e t such s n a suchs
:¢ 9 ¢ c a s h iteis.

checks, b u t w s

You con't know
when they e r e going t o b e paid.
to checks, a n d I think

eble through t h e Northern N e w Jersey
There a r e several other clearing houses t h a t opsrate
game way, b a t t h e idea o f t h e conmittee w a s t o bb:
the a t t e n t i o n o f t h e m e m b e r e n a e s r o u t i n g i t e m s

York t h e t they c o u l d list such checks o n their, imuscdis

credit letter instead o f on their two day letter, a s
would otherwise do, s n d
on 2
tion o f c h e c k s p a y a b l e t h r o u g h t h e clearings h o u s e

warFed-ral Reserve City, a n d i t has nothing t o d o with
rents o r e n y o t h e r s o r t o f documents.

Governor Young:

S u p p o s e t h e First National Benk o f

Sioux C i t y i n s t r u c t e d a l l i t s c u s t o m e r s

t O

A

Yn

their

Chica go",
checks “Payable a t the Federal Reserve Bank of
those checks?
and Chicsgo w o u l d give immediate credit for


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

not think Chicago w o u l d want t o d o that.
Mr, Strater:

O h , no.
T h o t i s t h e point. T

Governor Young:

do: 276-6 “ c o e

had better leave i t t o t h e committee t o cec
matter---

w e could h a v e o n uncerstending b e t w e e n ourselves

es t o those things, b i t i f i t became circulated, t h e member b m k s m i g h t teke adventege o f i t .
But y o u g i v e c r e d i t s u b j s e t

t o final

payment i n all cases.

I f it was payable

Governor Young:

d o n o t t h i n k y o u would,

Reserve B a n k o f Chicago, I

would not cash. sn individual's check thet just had stamped

on it, “Psyable at t h eFedersl Reserve B a k of Chicago”,
i n Chicago.

anc g i v e i m m e d i a t e c r e d i t

d o not think thet w a s intended

Strater T

Governor Young: I
At any emuent, i t i s

know, b u t thet i s possible.
h

e circular o f eight of the

Federal reserve banks, because i t wasn't i n your recormendation i n the October, 1922, report.
Mir. Strater:
Governor Young:

“

3s

true.

Because

a t t h a t t i m e s i g n t 6i- t S


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

t, a n a yest y o u r e c o m
in Merch: o f t h i s year t h e t 1 t b s p u t i n ,

(After further

Governor Fancher: |

‘

2

/ Pais i s a stencing conmittes, e n d you have
to you f o r considcration topics f r o m t h e Conference o f
Governors,

y o u nave mitters referred

anc b y t h e P e d - r a l R e s e r v e

submitted f r o m three sources,

y o u b y t h e Reserve
e

t

L

n nec

y E

Y

o

u have

e m -

thos¢ things i n t h e report y o u meke.
Strster:

E

y

r

, e n d w e have t r i e d t o

2 source o f e a c h inguiry.
The Cheirmen:

b a d t o e sugpeestion y o u
Out y o u r n e n t i n e

to have clearing houss

the outlying banks,

elisve

that i s n o t generslly known

t h e banks throughout t h e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

248
direct sending sens

a n a m e m b e r s of
they w o u l d
tb b o tHe: o y e

ena get imusdiate
final payment,
on
lisbility o r responsibility
scarps i

r e s s r v e

PE k e roe G e e i e
bak giving. imnuc

ignores it, i t Soesn't mez


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Go varnor

Governor
maintsining
group,

s s ¥é

list out of our deps
we gain f r o m it,

m c

their n a m e s

srroan genet

ere locel objections t o it,
fisiee o n t h e lle, t a s t i s
sifesct o u r
Gover tot Seay.
L O r e P e C O r n i Z Ss

nO O n tHLS,

1 2 1 5 ee- c e e

v

e recognize t h e

thet they s r e willing t o g o just o s f a
in carrying o u t t h e


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

willing-

I think t h e y e

is o n t h e 8

t o d o that, Governor 56ay.
acoption o f t h e report.
(Upon motion, c u l y
Governor Youns, o f t h e

polis, voting no.)
Governor

Young: t

e Cheirmsn:

will votvs

N o w ,

i

r

.

Cheirmen.

d o y o u went t o state snything

her, Governor Young, o r just 1 et y o u r steterx S

go a

record?
Governor Young:

i y , Cheirmsn,
1S 8

5

I F went t o o f f e r 4

carve b e n k s r e f u s e
,

t o nendle

points o r
upon n o n - p a l v o n p e r beaks.
5
o

g e n o r e l

proposition?
a

Don't you m e a

4

= ce
eonsh cO o lo
l e c pNr o n

regulation.
as t o n o n e

Governor
ESS.

Govsrnor F a n c h s r :

Governor Youns:

T h a
you c o u l s


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

251
Thet woulc m e a n t h e discontinuing
or

Governor Young:

Fancher:
rasa

it fevors discontinuing
collections o n non-per points; t h a t t h e h m d l i n g
non c s s h i t e n s b o c o n f i n e d n o w t o o u r p e r l i s t ?
Governor

Governor G a l i

D o e s thet

those adrgwn o n i n s ‘ t i o n s l o c a t e d

mean y o u will not hendle
i n non-perring c i t

or w h e 6?
Governor S e a y :
Governor Young:

T h e t i s taet- L t m e ape. R o n - p e r

9t n o n - p e r

migh
tached, covering soms 2uton

I don't want to send them out
out t h e r s ,
Governor

es


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

252
cash items, drefts o f different kinds, memorandum notes

end bills paysble 2t 9 bonk which is habitually charging
exchange,

i n s town, however, w h e r e there i s 9 national

bank through whitch w e c a n collect t h e t item,

W h y should

you cis criminete egsinst t h e non-cash i t e m when y o u a r =

able t o collect i t by paying exchenge, o r whsre there i s

9 way of collecting i t through 9 par bank, one of our o m
combers, a n d it is psyable a t e bank which will make a n

sxchange charge on it, and we collect it back from our
there a n y o b j e c t i o n

t o Wendling s u c h a n

Governor Young:

I s this a good bank, a par bank?

Governor Strong:

I t doesn't make m y cifference.

Governor Young:

I

t makes t h e cifference t h a t there

certain fetr veys of handling t h e business,
town t h e t w e w i l l n o t t r y t o c o l l e c t

benk i n tust town thet i s
sood b a n k

m

s

y not b e opposed

t o these collection

matters, and. here i s s liability that w e will not sssume
ourselves, b u t w e put i t o n ths: nstionel bank.
not right s n d w e would n o t d o it.

Governor Fancher.

L e t u s assume y o u have a

tion i t e m p a y a b l e a t --~- w e will.
for f l i v v e r s

take a

- - -nd i t i s drawn o n a

a
a non-per o n n k a n d y o u a l s o h e v e

collec-

bill o f leading d r a f t

voint w h e r e y o u h a v e

member bank, e n d w o u l d

vou h e n d l e t h a t c o l l e c t i o n ?

n o difficulty about that.
“gvernor Young. T h e r e would b e
B

Governor F a n c h e r .

u

ie, c e e ,
t h o w could y o u Pea

L a e

the
o u r collection devartment a l l
confusion t h e t h a s a r i s e n i n
time.
understood t h e m o t i o n i t c o v e r e d

A s I

Governor ielloorn.
non-par vlaces.


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

s a i d non-péer p o i n t s

Governor Youns. I

o r non-par banks.

non-par p o i n t m e a m s a

I thought t h a t covered. A G S *

com~

bank, o r tvs banks o r three
munity where t h e y have b u t o n e
banks

a n d not any one

o f the ba:ks

i s o n our S a r DiStS a

Mone

t w o banks i n a town, t h a t o n e
par bank would m e a n h e r e a r e
was o n a

not.
par basis « n d t h e other w a s

an i t e m t h a t w a s d r a w n o n a

W e wonvld n o t h a n d l e

w e had
non-par b a n k , e v e n ¢ h o u g h

a good par bank i n thet towne
Governor Fancher.

a n inN o t drawn o n a bank,out o n

dividual.
Governor Young.

I
I f d r a v n o n m n instividual

would c o l -

lect it.

certificate o f devosit
Ty. .Sthabews ‘ i e would not reke a
on a

bank

i n the Winneepolis

terribory

f o r collection under

any circumstances;

“ e just w o l d n o t take it.
Y o u r cirevlar

Governor Y o u n g s

your r e c o m n e n d a t i o n

i s that y o u wOULd

seys you

n o b

am s p e a k i n g n o w o f w h a t ‘ h e C l e v e l a n d
bank w i l l d o e
Governor Strong.

S u p p o s e y o u set a n L e m

parrine b a n k i n y o u r “ i s t r i c t

Ton

Yad C r e e s i s k :

wa 5

it docsn™t mike a n y “ifference wheth

ona

i

sa

o e s t e n .oF

taking
a collection item, i f you cannot collect i t -ithout
«and will n o t
ereat risk, v o u will just advise shat v o u ce*not

-overnor
Governor Strong. I

these items?
here?

thought t h a t m i l e a p o l i e d

w o y doesn't i t apply t o all o f tris report

h a n d l e t h e items.
Y o u c a n just s e y thet y o u will n o t
“Governor Young.

T h e r e p o r t s a y s w e gnhall h a n d l e t h o s e

end srotect t h e sensing Federal Reserve Bank.
propose

t o vrotect

w e d o not

t h e sendins Federal heserve oank.

of
are g o i n g t o t r y t o p r o t e c t t h e F e d e r a l K e s e r v e B a n k


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

irinneapolis.

O f course, t h a t “ e y b e a

s e l f i s h v o i n t o f view.

think thet i s justifiaole, a n d

Governor Strong. I

when y o u cannot handle a n item, s a y s o snd gend i t back.
Governor F a n c h e r .

e

r

s

b h e vosition

o f a

Federal

note w i t h a very close maturity

when i t tekes a

coint o u t s i d e ,

i t reaches t h e Minnea-

a n

Ehey cannot: c o l l e c :

t o s e n d i n g i t back.

sumes 2 1 1 t h e r i e k i n c i d e n t

107

I f the in-

c a n show that h e

the e q u i t a b l e o w n e r o f t h e t draft,

been injured v y reason of the failure o f the bank to make
collection,

i t a n d atter

i f t h e b a n k h a s n o t presented

sad i

G h a n i a n

Governor Young. ‘ e l l , o u r counsel says w e c a n d o it.
Governor Seay.

w

receive n o n - c a s h i t e m s

h

s

a

h

e objection t o declining

non-per n o i n t ?

on a

Governor Young. T h e r e i s n o objection that I

can see.

se@lieve t h e r e i s a m 2
means a

modificati«

t

s i l

e c o l l e c t i o n vrocedure.

h

the f i r s t n l a c e ,

Governor G a l k i n n

h o w would

w e know

are?
Governor Seey.

Y o u w o u l d v e advi:

ments, e n d y o u would b e advised b y wire
meantime


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

i

n the monthly state-

h a p p e n e d i n the

i n between t h e statements.

Governor Harding.
seems t o m e t h a t a

I

n t h e intra district vroposition

it

bank o u g h t t o e x e r c i s e i t s o w n discretion,

y

ovecausée, being o n the ground,

i t would know h o w t o handle it,

wnat y o u eré really aiming a t i s the inter “istrict transACtLON,

I n other words

y o u d 6 not want t h e “ember banks

t o

-be handling these certificates o f deposit because t h e y could
only h s n d l e t h e m p r o b a b l y b y s e n d i n g t h e m t o you,

advise ~ - . . the other banks that a

I f e y o u

particular territory o r

certain points a r e non-par voints, i s n ' t that notice t o the
other b a n k s t h a t y o u c a n n o t h a n d l e t h e m ,

y o u d o not k n o w any-

thing about them?
Governor Young, Y e s .
Governor Hardning.
Governor Young.

T h e n don't t a k e then.

W e would rotify y o u b y wire.

Governor Harding.

Y o u would j u s t simply return t h e m a n d

say y o u c o u l d n o t h a n d l e

them

o n non-par points,

a n d for your

own district y o u c a n exercise y o u r o w n discretion,

Y

o

u want

to warn t h e banks t h : tsuch a n d such a point i s a non-par
poing...-—

Governor Young. I
Governor Strong.

think the resolution covers that - N o , I

d o n o t t h i n k i t does.

Y o u have

got t o have a black list, s o t o speak, o f banks u p o n which
you won't collect non-cash items, a n d t >

will b e i n towns

where y o u haven't a n y par banks.


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

overnor C a l k i n s ,

Y o u would

h :

h e

s v e a

piace eestor

banks a n d towns.
Governor Seay.
kind i n a

I

f you have a

place i t i s n o t a

c o l l e c t i n g a g e n c y of. a n y

non-par point.

Governor Young. ‘ t h e Board has suggested v e r y strongly,
in their letter o f duly O t h , t h e t «

d e r a l Reserve Banks

discontinue collecting through agencies.

w e cannot d o t h a t

with m e m b e r b a n k s .

‘ w e h a v e g o t to’ s e n d m e n o u t

member::‘banks a n d I

do n o t t h i n k i t i s advisable

t o the non-

t o try t o

collect throush agencies.
the Ghairman.

Perhaos

i t would b e better i f y o u would

state y o u r m o t i o n again, G o v e r n o r Young.
Governor Young. I

will m o v e t h a t a l l F e d e r a l R e s e r v e

refuse t o h a n d l e c a s h , o
r non-cash i t e m s d r a w n u p o n n o n -

or

par points/on non-per banks.
The Chairman.

Y o u have modified it, have y o u not.

the cash items a
Governor Young. I

moment ago.

put thet |

t

h

e

f o r the reason

that there is always a p u t e b e t y F e d e r a l Reserve Banks
as t o w h a t a r e n o n - c a s h i t e m s

a n d what a r e not.

I t may b e

superflous; b u t i t will n o t d o any harm.


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Phe Chairman.

D o I

Governor Bailey. I

hear a ‘ second t o t h a t m o t i o n ?

will second t h e motion.

T h a t i s exactly

we are doing now.
Yhe Geairman.

I s there e n y further discussion?
do not think t h t

Governor Calkins. I

i s what w e a r e

doing now.
I f y o u w i l l p e r m i t t h e suggestion,

Governor Strong.

why

don't v o u f r a m e i t s o t h a t e a c h F e d e r a l R e s e r v e B a n k w i l l
of ;
banks
notify a l l o t h e r F e d e r a l R e s e r v e b a n k s / the points a n d

within i t s district u p o n which they will n o t hendle,
unable t o handle, non-cash items.
Governor Young. ‘ t h a t i s satisfactory t o m e a n d
make t h e m o t i o n i n t h a t way.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

The Gheirman.

T h a t eliminates c a s h items?

Governor Young.

The Chairman.

Yess

D o I héar a second to that?

Governor Bailey. I

Governor Strong.

will s e c o n d i t .

w i l l second that motion.

(fhe m o t i o n h a v i n e b e e n d u l y s e c o n d e d w a s u n a n i m o u s l y c a r -

Gentlemen,

w e have quite a

ways t o g o bet-

we
ween n o w e n d the t e n o'clock meeting tomo~row rorning when
meet a g a i n w i t h t h e F e d e r a l R e s e r v e B o a r d .

and I

m r . Kenzel

i s here

a m going t o a s k h i m n o w t o submit t h e report o f the

Pension Committee.

H e i s h e r e f o r t h a t purpose,

Mr, Harrison.

of

M r . Chairman, d u r i n g t h e discussion

non-cash c o l l e c t i o n i t e m s s o m e

o f the banks made t h e con-

on i e aaa,

:i
tention t h e t t h e y a r e n o w g u a r a n t e e i n g

and

+ » indorsements

that t h e report recommends t h a t w e d o not guarantes™.>* i n =
dorsements u n l e s s n e c e s s a r y
s

d e r s t a

item. &

c

at t h e t i m e o f t h e d i s c u s s i o n

t»ings j u s t a s they are.

h

e sense o f the conference

o f this point t h a t w e would

O n the other hand t h e subse-

quent a c t i o n o f t h e e o n f e r e n c e h a s b e e n t o a


https://fraser.stlouisfed.org
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Was that intended,

o f the

i n order t o effect payment

oprove t h e report.

o r was i t not, t o apvrove t h e recommenda=

no l o n g e r c u a r a n t e e

j Ohegi
6: g0 e e a
indorsements.

for m e t o w r i t e u p t h e m i n u t e s

P

Z
y wade:

o n that unless

because t h e r e w a s n o definite action o n i t a t the
climes,
Governor Galkins.

T h e fact i s 2

2 h nor eas e t

GSE,

the banks, w h i c h a r e d e t e r m i n e d n o t t o g u a r a n t e e
e

e

e

a r e actually doing

guarantee i n d o r s e m e n t I
fi4

i t as a

tee

n order

i n y o u r incorsement.

a n the usual a n d general w a y I

them.

Governor Seay.

I

not

t o

a m verfectly satisfied t h a t y o u must

include t h e v o r d s " n o t suaranteed"
you i n d o r s e

fact.

B r i e -2ne

k v e n i f y o u .ndorse

L e

believe y o u g u a r a n -

260
collection o n l y "
carrying &

y o u believe t h a t

suerantee

i s «

general indorsement

o f previous indorsements?

Governor Calkins.

My. Harrigson:.

Yes.

R s a matter o f fact there a r e a great

many b a n k s w h o s e i n d o r s e m e n t s a r e f o r c o l l e c t i o n only. I
understand t h a t c o u n s e l f o r t h e S a n F r a n c i s c o b a n k h o l d s
that t h a t i n d o r s e m e n t

prior indorsements.,

necessarily inciudes a

guarantee

o f

I t i s the opinion o f other counsel

that that i s not true, i n other sections o f the country.
Governor Calkins.

Governor Young.

‘ w h e r e @ m you f i n d t h a t ?

M r . Fancher r e a d that t o u s from your

book there.
Vr. H a r r i s o n , I

personally

feel that

i t does n o t guaran-

tee them, b u t I w o u l d l i k e t o l o o k i t u p a s I

a m not sure o f

it. G o v e r n o r Strong egrees w i t h m e that i t does n o t guarantee
prior indorsements,
at t h e p r e s e n t

T h e y indorse f o r collection o n l y a n d w e

t i m e reindorse

f o r collection only.

W e would

be perfectly willing t o suarantee t h e prior indorsements;
fact, 3t3 h a t would b e our recommendation,

in

t h e t w e all d o it.

ify pointiin bringing this u p was t o merely clear t h e situation
up e n d f i n d o u t “ h a t t h e c o n f e r n é n c e w a n t e d t o do.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

(After discussion, )
Mr. Harrison.

I f i t wovld h e l p matters any,

i n

261
of Governor Strong, a n d h e said that I might speak for h i m o n
this subjeot, I

would like t o move that a l l

o f the Federal R o -

serve banks change their indorsement t h e y put o n non-cash
collections

s o a s t o e x p r e s s l y g u a r a n t e e p r i o r indorsemont.

Governor Culkins: P r o v i d e d ?
Mr.'Harrison:

P r o v i d e d t h e depositing b a n k made a

Similar guarantec.

Governor Calkins: I
Governor Sexy:
Mr. Strater:

would second t h e motion.

B u t n o t otherwise.
I t seems t o m e that i s exactly what t h e

committoe recommends.
Governor Calkins: I

think that i s what t h e y intended

to recommend.
Mr. Harrison:
commended t h a t a s a

T h e committee says i t i s therefore re-~
gonera 1

practico F e d e r a l R e s e r v e b a n k s

not guarantee prior indorsements unloss necessary t o effect
collection,

a n d t h e n o n l y w h e r e t h e p r i o r i n d o r s o m e n t s heave

been g u a r a n t e e y
b the next preceding bank.
Governor Calkins:

T h e being interpreted t h a t inasmuch

as i t i s always necessary t h e y should always d o i t when t h o

depositing bank has guarantcod.
The Chairman:

W i t h that interpretation would y o u b e

satisfied w i t h t h e report?


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Harrison,
meant .

nor Calkins. I
Strater.
teen a

wijl not withdraw m y second,

T h e recommendetion

positive one, ~

You h a v e

is a

negative o n e

t o have t h e preceding

to suarantee prior indorsement - ~
Governor Calkins.

T h e r e is a

with r e g i r d t o t h e indorsement

opinion.

a n d I

differenee o f opinion
a m speeking f r o m m y

M r . Strater says i t i s necessary t o have t h e prior

indo sement specifically guaranteed, b u t L e e n o v o i n k 1 5 384
I think t h e g e n e r a l i n d o r s e m e n t

is 4

suarantee.
think t h e u s e

with t h e t e x c e p t I

words, “for collection only" iCys a restrictive indorseé
a
e Ys
P
e
o
a
u
t 4
ment and is not a“general indorsement guarantecing prior in-


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

dorsements.

Governor Calkins.

O n advice o f counsel I

will h a v e

disagree w i t h you.
Harrison s a y 6 - i s satisfactory

Governor Calkins.

The Chatrman.

n

o

t withdrawn

m y second.

Y o u g o i n g t o withdraw i t now,

you?

Governor Calkins.

W hI

think t h e m o t i o n s h o u l d b e passed.

+ -

lbeeal p r o b l e m a n y W a y y o u

think i t i s a

+ .

Strater. I
it.

ze
Governor Seay; I t seems t o me that the motion creates

I t places t h e operating de-

an almost impossible situation.
partments o f the banks under a

tremendous handicap, because

they w i l l h e v e t o i n s p e c t e v e r y i n d i v i d u e l i t e n , t h e y w i i l

have t o have &ifferent kinds o f indorsement stamps.
heave t o have e

T h e y will

stamp ‘vrith orior iniorsements guaranteed which

they will u s e i n case t h e depositing vank guarantees, a n d a


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

stamp t h e t t h e y
puarantee.

Mr,y. Harrison.
mendation, I

T h a t would b e the effect o f this recom-

should think,

the
I t neduees/ n u m b e r o f cases where t h e

Governor Calkins.
muerantee w o u l d %

c

a

fused unless i t i s there I

s

e

i s re-

move that w e g o the whole thing.

We s h o u l d n o t a c c e p t a n d - h a n d l e i t e m s
ments a r e n o t g u a r e n t e e d

s where vayment

o n w h i c h vorior i n d o r s e -

b y t h e d e p o s i t i n g banks.

W w e snould +

7

not b e handling t h e m a t all.
Wr, Streter..

I f y o u d o thet y o u ¥

b

e clarifying

whole situation, b u t y o u will b e charging t h e entire coliection procedure w i t h t h e commercial ‘anks, w h i c h d o not d e i t

mi

<

Governor Calkins.

T h e y do in a

Sos n o t t h i n s

majority o f c a s e s T

s o o e

s

think,

e

i do not. Limit i b ter tne eistriot, . out
as a general practice.
ire Byrater.

W e investigated t h a t a s closely a s w e could

and f o u n d t h a t m o s t o f t h e b a n k s

i n o v r district =

end uost o f the banks i n Philadelphia a n d
New Y o r k

d o not guarantee indorsements

Mr. Harrison.

o n collection items.

O u r operating man s a i d with respect t o the

recommendation that w e gusrantee prior indorsements a n d then
nae o u r depositing banks quarantee t e m .
Goverior C a l k i n s

s t a t e m e n t

o f t h e committee w a s

su’ sestion o n l y bécause o f the difference i n our views
to the legal effect o f the indorsement i n blank?
NRsehediga) Gauilavsaimed nscpeiqai!
t
o
Governor Calvins,.

T h e n 7”- your i n q u i r y d e v e l o p e d

the

that t h e banks d i d not specificelly quasrantee?
Mr

Sorever.

Governor O a l i r i n s

suarantee,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

L

o

i

f t Enele senéeéral i n d o r s e m e n t

did

t h e n t h e r e w o u l d b e n o difference.

Governor Fancher.

T h e r e i s a p e rently a

difference

of

legal o p i n i o n

Governor Seay

I

t i s just a s desirable, f r o m many points

of view, t h a t t h e i n d o r s e m e n t s h o u l d b e g u a r a n t e e d
cash i t e m s a s i t i s t h a t i t s h o u l d b e g u a r a n t e e d
items.

I

o n the non-

o n the cash

f t h e c o l l e c t i o n o f n o n - c a s h i t e m s i s small, t h e n

some exception might b e made, b u t c h e business i s growing
to v e r y l a r g e o r o o o r t i o n s a n d w e s h o u l d n o t c i m p s s d o p e r a t i n g
burdens

o n o u r operating departments

- - I. think w r , S t r a t e r i s

right i n thet - - and i f i t i s desirable t h a t non-cash items
be g u a r a n t e e d

b y t h e d e p o s i t i n g banks,

as I

I do not think there will b e much difficulty

believe

i t is,

i n bringing t h e m

we -ell t h e m that w e will n o t teke their items u n PPE.
Mire S t r a t e

I

f t h a t i s done,

y o u simplify t h e -roblem

at once, That w o l d r e q u i r e t h a t a l l i t e m s sent. f o r c o l be
lection, . s h a n d n o n - c a s h s u a r a n t e e d a s t o indorsements.

that i s good, s o u n d banking practice.
The Cheirman.

i d e . C a l k i n s , w i l l y o u kindly repeat y o u r

Governor Calkins.

‘ h e resolution n o w before t h e house,

as I understand it, provides that t h e Bederal Reserve banks
shall i n d o r s e t h e c u a r a n t e e i n g

o f orior indorsements

non c a s h c o l l e c t i o n i t e m s w e i c h t h e y u n d e r t a k e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

o n all

t o hendle, o r o -

266

vided t h a t t h e depositing k
intdorsemnent.

has l i k e w i s e gueranteed t h e prior

W h e addition t o thet w a s t h e suggestion that

we srovuld n o t h a n d l e t h e m u n l e s s t h e d e p o s i t i n g b a n k d i d g u a r a n tee them. I

do n o t k n o w whether Mr. Aarrison i s willing t o

include t h a t i n h i s motion.
Harrison. I

Governor Seay.

would l i k e t o inelude t h a t ,

S r e y o u willing t o take a s a sudstitute

she F e d e r a l R e s e r v e b a n k s r e q u i r e t h a t a l l n o n - c a s h
shall b e s u a r a n t e e d

a s t o »vrior indorsements,

a n d that

the F e d e r a l R e s e r v e b a n k s t h e m s e l v e s g u a r a n t e e t h e i n d o r s e m e n t s
thereon?

Gover

a l k

Harrison.

T h a t i s the same
F e r h a p s t h a t expresses a

little more clear-

ig wmeant.
‘airman.

D o you, o f f e r t h a t

Governor Calkins.

I

t was

a s a

H a r r i s

motion,

Governor

m o t i o n which I

seconded.
vir, Harrison.

I

t i s offered a s a

iovernor Calkins. I

motion.

will s e c o n d motion.

( The notion having b e e n d u l y seconded

carried. )


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

i t was unanimously

267
The Chairman.

N o w , gentlemen,

w e will take u p the topic

dealing w i t h the Pension Committee.
4. O p e r a t i o n .
b. R e p o r t o f P e n s i o n Committee,
Mr. K e n z e l , C h a i r m a n .

Perhaps y o u h a d better g o back o n this a

little, M r ,

Kenzel i n order t o refresh t h e minds o f the conference.
Mr, BRenzel.

w i t h your permission I

will g o back t o

the action taken i n October, 1 9 2 2 b y this conference.

I t was

voted that i t was t h e sense o f the conference that i f possible s o m e s o r t o f Federal R e s e r v e p e n s i o n p l a n b e inaugurated,
and s o forth.

In accordance w i t h that action o f the conference t h e Committee o n Pensions g a v e careful consideration t o the whole pension scheme, g o i n g over i t with o u r advisors, a n d ascertaining
if anything h a d developed within t h e t w o years preceding that
would s u g g e s t a

orofitable c h a n g e

i n t h e plan;

w e also toek

4t u p with o u r counsel t o determine whether o r not i t was feasible i n h i s o p i n i o n t o p r o c e e d

inaugurate a

t o make a

recommendation

to

pension p l a n lacking Congressional legislation.

The r e p o r t c o f s t h e s e c o n c l u s i o n s w a s d e l i v e r e d

t o t h i s con-~

ference i n March o f 1923, w h i c h included t h e recommendations o f
the s i t i e s


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

t o proceed

i n a c c o r d a n c e w i t h t h e a d v i c e o f coun-

sel t o t r y a n d bring about t h e inauguration o f a pension p l a n

under t h e charitable corporation l a w o f the District o f
umbia, w h i c h o u r counsel advised w a s feasible a n d legal
the banks t o undertake,

a s h e had already advised b a c k i n

1920.
That r e p o r t w a s r e c e i v e d
March o f 1923, a n d approved,

b y this b o d y a t i t s meeting

in

a n d w i t h t h e approval t h e y asked

the committee t o restate t h e whole matter t o the Federal Reserve Board a n d impress t h e Federal Reserve Board a s well a s

they could with the urgency of .. fixirig upon a plan for the
system,

a n d also instructed t h e Committee

t o pass o n t o t h e

Board the conclusions reached b y the conference i n March o f
1923,

T h a t w a s done b y the committee

mentary r e p o r t

i n the f o r m o f a

supple-

t o this conference a n d t o t h e Federal Reserve

Board dated October 19, 1923, o f which copies have been received b y you gentlemen.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

toa

269

of the committee o n pension matters, after a conference with
the c o m n i t t e e

i n w h i c h t h e p l a n o f procedure w a s l a i d b e f o r e

him b y the committee.
Now I have here sufficient d a t a t o cover t h e whole course
of consideration b y the Pension Committee, w i t h t h e plans heretofore suggested a n d adopted b y all t h e banks a n d their directors, t o enable m e t o answer a n y question which members o f the
conference,

w h o w e r e n o t m e m b e r s b a c k i n 1920, m i g h t w i s h t o

ask m€.«

I would also venture t o call t o your attention that w h e
delay i n putting t h e pension p l a n inte operation seemed t o
arise f r o m t h e f a c t t h a t a

bill, h a v i n g b e e n p r e p a r e d f o r

introduction i n Congress t o permit t h e Federal Reserve banks
to m a k e n e c e s s a r y a p p r o p r i a t i o n f o r t h e e s t a b l i s h m e n t a n d

maintenance o f this fund, w a s delayed i n introduction, dsbeliee a s a

matter o f political e x p e d i e n c y ,

a n d the time that

has s i n c e e l a p s e d h a s o f c o u r s e c a r r i e d w i t h i t a n accrual

of

liabilitzes which will make i t a more expensive t h i toOyh a n
would h a v e b e e n t h e c a s e a

few years ago.

I

t will cause a

larger initial outlay b y the banks, undoubtedly, h o w large i t
is impossible f o r u s t o s a y without actuarial calculations,
based o n t h e p r e s e n t s t a f f o f employees.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

H o w much larger i t

rago
will be, i f any, a s t o the yearly contributions
banks, I

a m not orepared

t o say. i

b y . the

doubt i f i t w i l l b e a n y

larger, b u t t h e burden, t h e chief burden o f it, will come u p o n
the employees who, under t h e v l a n revised, a n d revised w i t h
the condition o f its approval b y Senator Smoot t h e accrued
liabilities will have t o b e borne practically fifty-fifty b y
the b a n k s a n d t h e e m p l o y e e s
that p a r t w h i c h w i l l h a v e

o f t h e banks,

t o b e borne

a n d w i t h respect

b y the employees

to

o f

the banks, unless v e r y >vrompt action i s taken, within t h e

your committee, i t wiil b e very difficult, i f not
ampossible f o r t h e e m p l o y e e s
proportion

t o assume t o discharge t h e i r

o f these accrued liabilities.

T h e r e f o r e your

committee wishes m e t o urge uwoon y o u a t this time their
earnest h o p e t h a t y o u w i l l c o n s i d e r t h e t h i n g n o w a n d b r i n g
it &

conclusion.
Governor S e a y .

M a y I

ask o n e guestion,

Mr. Chairman?

The
to t h e e m p l o y e t s ,

templated t h a t t h e vaymer
buted o v e r a


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

i t 1 s cone

t h e y shall make shall b e distri-

tern

vir. Kenzel.

T h a t w o u l d h a v e t o b e true, u n d o u b t e d l y .

Governor Fancher. « n o r t i z e d o v e r a

Wir. Kenzel.

period o f years?

I t is perfectly feasible t o take care o f

ad 6
£

oy a m o r t i z i n g t h e p a y m e n t s o v e r a

period, w h i c h w o u l d h a v e t o

be w o r k e d o u t .
Governor Harding.

C o v l d n o t those employees

b e given t h e

opiiion, s t a r t i n g i n , a s f a r s a s t h e p e n s i o n v l a n i s concerned,

as n e w employees,

s o a s t o avoid that b a

going the bank's benefits?
Kenzel.

T h a t w o u l d b e o f v e r y d o u b t f u l benefit.
Have t h e e m p l o y e e s c o n s i d e r e d

th

possibility t h a t t h e Federal R e s e r v e b a n k s m i g h t n o t b e r e -

chartered? A

gocd many o f our o w n employees h a v e become

so discouraged t h a t t h e y d o not care anything about t h e pension plan.

Governor Bailey.
on e v e r y e m p l o y e e
Mr. Kenzel.

employees;

I s i t the theory t o make i t compulsory

o f the bank?
I t i s optional w i t h respect

t o present

i t would give t h e m a year i n which t o decide, b u t

it w o u l d b e c o m p u l s o r y

Governor Harding.

o n n e w employees.

W h e t would }

D e C o n g r e s s did

not r e c h a r t e r t h e b a n k s ?

Mr. Kenzel.

T h e forporation, w h i c h would b e formed either

under Congressional law, o r under t h e laws o f the District o f
Columbia, w o u l d b e i n d e p e n d e n t

solvent insurance company.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

o f t h e banks.

I t waquid b e a

I t might have t o liquidate, b u t i t

would b e solvent.
Governor Calkins. I

believe

i t i s provided t h a t a n y

employee * i t h d r a w i n g f r o m t h e b a n k i s e n t i t l e d

t o receive

the contribution h e has paid, w i t h accumulation?
Mr. Kengél.

W i t h Intercst, V e s e

Governor Harding.

D o y o u know what t h e attitude o f the

Federal Reserve Board i s abovt this now, whether they would
approve p a y m e n t s
Mr. Kenzel.

b y t h e banks?
T h e onlyy information I

have h a d f r o m t h e

Governor was a n acknowledgment o f this, i n which they observed
that i t i s a

part o f t h e r e c o m m e n d a t i o n t h a t t h e c o m m i t t e e

proceed t o obtain a District o f Columoia charter, a n d direct
me a s chairman t o take n o steps towards that end; t h e y also
stated t h a t

i t would

b e considered

a t this conference

a n d that

I, a s chairman, w o u l d b e advised l a t e r o f the outcome o f consideration b y the conference a n d b y the Board.
Governor Seay. D o e s counse] f o r t h e Board concur i n the
opinion o f y o u r c o u n s e l t h a t i t c o u l d b e l e g a l l y d o n e ?

Mr. Kenzel. I

do not know.

T h e history o f this, f r o m

the legal point o f view, i s that Mr. Curtis,

i n 1920, I

think

it was, g a v e u s a n opinion that i t might b e accomplished legally


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

in o n e o f t h r e e ways:

n i t h e r through a

District o f Columbia charter,

o r a charter under t h e laws o f

any state that might b e desired,
individually could d o it.

federal c h a r t e r , a

o r that e a c h o f the banks

T h e Board a t that time first d e L a t e r they

cided t h a t t h e y w o u l d n o t w i s h t o g o t o Congress.

changed their views i n that regard a n d decided that t h e better
way would b e t o g o t o Congress a n d get a Federal. charter.
Governor Harding.

T h e y reached a

very definite conclu-

sion t h a t t h e y w o u l d n o t a p p r o v e a n y e x p e n d i t u r e s

o n the part

of t h e b a n k s e x c e p t w i t h C o n g r e s s i o n a l s a n c t i o n .

Mr. Kenzel.

Yes.

T h e n t h e idea was advanced that t h e y
then it

should g e t a n o p i n i o n f r o m t h e A t t o r n e y General;

was decided that that w a s not a desirable course.
1920 there w a s a


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

of f i v e a s I

committee o f this conference, a

recall i t , t o a c t w i t h a

committee

eral R e s e r v e B o a r d , w h i c h c o m m i t t e e w a i t e d

B a c k in
committee

o f the Fed-

o n S e n a t o r Smoot;

they h a d s e v e r a l m e e t i n g s w i t h h i m e n d t h e p l a n w a s amended’

according t o his ideas.

T h a t amended p l a n was embodied i n

the bill I have already referred t o , wnich was t o b e introduced, b u t then something happened t o i t a n d nothing h a s been
done since, T h a t w a s t h e o l a n a s originally submitted b y the
committee, a n d I think that w a s unanimous.
Governor Harding.

I t i s a ver m e r i t o r i o u s plan, b u t I

274

think i t i s rather hopeless t o form i t under t h e charitable corporation l a w o f the District o f Columbia,

W h e t right h a s

the Federal Reserve b a n k t o take stock?
Mr, Benzel.

T h e Federal Reserve b a n k would not take

stock..
Governor Harding.
as a

I t might b e possible t o work i t out

separate p e n s i o n p l a n f o r e a c h bank.
Mr. Kenzel.

T h e difficulty

o f that i s that y o u lose

the advantage o f the application o f the l a w o f insurance averAges.

w i t h all the banks counted a s one w e have a

group

of twelve thousand persons affected, b u t with the individual
banks,

w e are advised b y our experts that i t would b e prac-

tically i m p o s s i b l e f o r t h e s m a l l banks.

I t might b e pos-

sible for New York and Chicago, b u t the others would vrobably
find i t v e r y d i f f i c u l t

Governor Calkins.

t o establish a

safe plan.

I n regard t o the initial cost, i t

occurs that i t i s doubtful whether i t Wentd-be “eeess a s was
computed because o f the very great turnover i n all o f the
Federal Reserve Banks since that time. I
it would b e very much less.

A

think i n our case

s a n illustration, t h e turn-

over i n t h e L o s A n g e l e s b r a n c h i n 1 9 2 2 w a s s o m e t h i n g l i k e

thirty-five p e r cent,
the cost less.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

T h a t o f course would operate t o make

Governor H e r d i n g e W

turnover

e h aiv e h a d

i n

Last veer, t o o .
Falawil!!0aaaahounUae 8 the b a n k s

(overnor g

have

ha

turnover.

e x p e r i e n e 6 o f t h e N AT- w Y o r k b a n k

Kenzel.

the t u r n o v e r

i s v e r y re.

to t h e s m a l l e r s a l a r i e d e m e
p l o y e eas ,
Governor C a l i c i n s ,

— . 0 F course

the l o w e r s a l a r i e d e m p l o y e e s ,

pid i t i s largély confined

t o
1 5

but it

s

much
si i o r e rapid among

has been very consider-

saleried e m p l o yees

e lv o sa t 1 &

fery l a r g e p r o n o r t i o n o f hish-salzi.
Governor o e a y .

B e c a u s e

t h e y w e re o f f e r e d b e t t e r

In ‘sost

e Chairman.h

CASES}

During TC u r r e n t y e a r w e - h a v e l o s t n o t

h a e
S

ess t h a n s e v e n

i

x

w h o m h e ve g o n e i n t o p o s i t i o n s

n

g h e r e v o f Ore c o n e e n c e s ,

of
=
[
gni
fo
l raerf gor

broader fields;

ally s p e
months

a

n

y

t

h

i

Governor W e l l b o r n . I
Directors

made’ 2

repo rt t o o u r B o a r d - o r

a t the October meeting that

They h a d t h e i d e a t h a t w e w e r e p a y i n g


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

a surprise t o trem.

s a w a

te o f f i c e r s

and employees t h a h were usually p a i d i n sitlenta banks.

W e

wie

the f i s u r e s

f r o m t h e atlanta banks

and

i n e V e r y .Casé.oup

ss than those p a i d i n the banks, e v e n d w
to bookkeéepers,
fhe Chairman.

I n one instance, o n e o f our men, w h o was

receiving »15,000, w a s taken away, w i t h t h e understanding that
he would receive 318,000; h i s salary has been increased t i c e
since t h e n a n d h e i s n o w getting #25,000, a n d i n addition t o
that h e i s receiving a

bonus.

Governor Norris. P e r h a p s I

should ad¢ t o this b y saying

that i n ten months o f this y e a r o u r resignations h a v e amounted
to 5 7 p e r c e n t «

Ves Seiees.

t o t a l foree.

t h e rapid turnover o f force would nave t h e

effect o f reducing t h e accrued liability t o
evidently impossible, however,

t o estimate what that might be,

Man « T h e comaittee,
action ¢

i n accordance w i t h the

the last conference w a s instructed t o l a y before t h e
pension p l a n framed b y the committee

and its advisors, a n d approved b y the Governors! Vonference, t o aether with the recital o f the steps whereby t h e vlan was de-

veloped a n d t o express i o t h e Board the conviction o f the conference


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

that nothins

could

b e more beneficial

t o the operation

Federal R e s e r v e S y s t e m thet
T h e committee

oroposed.

h e ado
h a L o t

o

f some such

i n accordance with

recommendatioh.
M r . Cheirman, I

Governor Harding.
the r e p a t

b e r e c e i v e d a n d accepted,

would m o v e y o u t h a t

« n d laid before t h e Fed-

eral R e s e r v e B o a r d .

The Chairman.

T h a t motion hes received a

second, b u t

before i t i s acted o n i t seems t o m e something m i g h
to e m p h a s i z e t h e n e c e s s i t y o f « h e i m p o r t a n c e

do not t i n k i t wovld d o a n y good

Governor Harding. T
to a d d t o that,

I - m e e n t exactly what I

the r e p o r t

o f “srompt action.

i d when I

b e received, a c c e p t e d ,

made t h e

a n d laid before

the Federal Reserve Board.
Governor Fancher.

Y o u m e a n without recommendation?

Governor Harding.

T h e report recommends itself;

i t speaks

very h i g h l y o f itself.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Governor B i g s

B u t t h e r e p o r t h a s b e e n recomnendéed t h r e e

Governor Harding.
Governor

L Y

a

n

d should

w e not affirm that recommenda-

al
The C Fh
e r rman, -

think 8 0 %

Governor Harding.

V e r y well then, I

will move that t h e

renort


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

will s e c o n d t h a t .
T would

of Governors

b e appointed

Chairmen.
Comma tees

d e a l with

W w o r d d Lt. n o t p e

t o Go: p h a t ?

not

ee

e a e

Gnaitrmean,

unanimously

Pension C o m a i t t e e

Has

i s

P O R ?

Ma

4 FER DGRAD H o b E k h V e

D O A

py t h e
GOVe.RHORS! G O N F L R R N C #
through t h e
fuTTiisk O N P a N S T O N S O F T H e CONPAAENCI

IN’ RODUCTION
AUTHORITY F O R
to the Pedsral Reserve Board:
The Governors! Conference,

a t its meeting i n March,

1925, directed t h e Committee o n Pensions o f the Conference,
to l a y b e f o r e t h e F e d e r a l R e s e r v e B o a r d t h e p e n s i o n p l a n
ed b y t h e c o m m i t t e e

ernors! Conference, together w i t h a

recital o f

by the p l a n was developed, a n d t o express e

Board “the

conviction o f the conference that nothing could b e more beneficial

t o t h e operation o f t h e Federal Keserve S y s t e m t h a n

the adoption o f some such plan a s oroposed." ( S e e Note 1 )
In pursuance

o f t h e i r instruction,

t h e Committee

o n Pen-

sions submits t o the Board the following memorandum, giving,
in Part I , t h e history o f the pension plan; P a r t II, a n outline o f t h e dlan; a n d P a r t I I I , t h e r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s
committee

a s approved

o v e r n o r s ! Uonference.

The Governors! Conference, a t i t s meeting i n
appointed a

Commi ttee o n Pensions, ( S e e Note 2 )

the B o a r d t o a u t h o r i z e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

a n appropr

o f the

the C o m m i t t e e ,

ONPENSIONS.
The Committee o n Pensions organized o n September 8 ,
1920, ( S e e Note 3 ) a n d after t h e most exhaustive consi.dération,
presented

t o t h e Governors!

Conference

i n Mere

J9Cl, &

Sea

sion p l a n f o r t h e p r o t e c t i o n r o f t h e o f f i c e r s a n d e m p l o y e e s
the F e d e r a l r e s e r v e b a n k s ,

of

t o b e o p e n a l s o t o t h e employees

of

the Bederal Reserve Board, a n d upon suitable terms t o the member
banks a n d t r u s t companies.

Saihiaheiencaaidrarane
Note 1

-~ Governors! Conference w i t h the Federal Reserve

Board, March 1923. “ v o t e d that the report (printed pages
550-563, stenogravhic record) o f the Pensions Committee b e
received a n d the recommendations contained therein approved,

with the understanding that the Pensions Committee should communicate t h e action o f the conference t o the Pederal Reserve
e e

Board, citing f o r them all t h e

t h a t h a d been taken i n

developing t h e pension plan, a n d expressing t h e conviction that
nothing c o u l d

b e more beneficial

t o the operation

o f the Feder-

al Reserve Systen t h a n t h e adoption o f some s u c h plan a s proposed,"

Note 2 - -The Committee consisted o f HE. R. Kenzel, D e p u t y
Governor

o f t h e N e w Y o r k Bank;

J . B . McDougal, G o v e r n o r

o f the

Chicago Bank; a n d #. R. Fancher, Governor o f the Cleveland Bank.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Note 3

-- The following specialists w e r e i n attendance

and continued t o advise t h e Committee during i t s sessions:
Counsel, Jcemes F . Curtis; f o r m e r A s s i s t a n t S e c r e t a r y o f t h e

Treasury; Pension Adviser, Monell Savre, ixecutive Viceresident

o f the Pension F u n d o f the Hpiscopal C h u r c h a n d

1 adviser

t o t h e C h u r c h o f kngland, C o n s u l t i n g i.ctuary,

y Moir, A c t u a r y o f t h e H o m e L i f e I n s u r a n c e C o m n a n y o f N e w

York, a n d former President o f the «merican actuarial Society;
“working setuary, G e o r g e B . Buck, a c t u a r y o f t h e N e w Y o r k
Municipal P e n s i o n system.

ADOPLTON BY “he YOVsHKHORS' JONPoK
The Governors!

C o n f e r e n c e a d o p t e d t h e p e n s i o n p l a n recom-

mended b y the Com«ittee, a n d directed that i t b e leid before
the Board.

A c c o m p a n y i n g t h e report, t h e C o m m i t t e e l a i d b e -

fore t h e Board a n opinion o f the counsel t o the Committee,
outlining

t h e measures

into overstion.
complished

t o b e adopted

t o nut t h e pension plan

T h e counsel advised t h a t this might b e ac-

i n either

o f t w o forms, f i r s t ,

by a

special a c t

of Congress incorporating t h e proposed Federal Keserve Pension
Fund;

o r second,

b y articles

al c o r p o r a t i o n l a w s


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

o f incorporation under t h e gener-

o f the District

o f Columbia

i n pursuance

of authority conferred u p o n t h e Federal Reserve Board b y the
law c r e a t i n g t h e s a i d Board.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

PubDeERAL ReSkRVe BOAKD
The B o a r d passed 4

r e u t i o n t i v i n g i t s seneral approbe

chet a p p l i c a t i o n s

act o f i n c o r p o r a t i o n
for t h e v r o v o s e d v e n s i o n fund.

Governor W e P . G

f a r d i n ge

on beheld.

o f Tne

chairman o f the Pension Committee a n d i t s expert
stor S m o o t o f Utah.

S e n a t o r Smoot considered

the draft o f the bill dravym u p b y the counsel t o the committee e n d stated t h a t h e w o u l d b e p r e p a r e d

t o introduce t h e

bill i n the Senate, provided t h a t a n impor a n t change were

made i n the pension pian b y the committee.
The Pension Committee 2

( S e e Note 4 )

s o t e d + ) s u g g e s t i o n , a n d the coun-

-- W i s change w a s t h e substitution, f o r the prothe F e d e r e l r e s e r v e b a n k s s h o u l d b e a r a l l

accrued liabilities

o f the

f o r t h e officers a n d employees

of the banks w h e n the pension system should g o into operation,
of a

vrovision t h a t t h e b a n k s s h o u l d p a y h a l f o f t h e a c c r u e d

liabilities a n d that t h e respective officers a n d employees
should p a y the other half.

T h e nature o f the accrued

278 <%

lities a n d the meaning o f this alteration i s explained
in Part Ii, om. pases I l and. 12.
Owing t o the attention o f Congress b e i n g absorbed b y
i t did not seem

the t a r i f f l e g i s l a t i o n « n d f o r o t h e r reasons,
advisable

t o Senator S m o o t t o introduce t h e bill incorsoraa n d s o the subject h a s never

ting t h e o r o p o s e d p e n s i o n fund,
peen a c t e d u p o n

b y Congress.

ADOPYION

B Y VHp FeDERAL RuSERVE BANKS

Following t h e a c t i o n o n t h e v r o p o s e d p e n s i o n p l a n b y t h e
Governors!

Conference e n d the

was l a i d b e f o r e t h e d i r e c t o r s

e r a l |

a

r

d

, t h e plan

o f each o f the twelve federal

reserve banks, a n d was approved b y each o f said board o f directors.
VHE P R E S E N T S I V U A T T O N
The p e n s i o n p l a n d e v e l o p e d
the Governors!

b y the Pensions Committee

of

Conference w i t h the

pert a d v i s e r s h a s t h e r e f o r e b e e n approved, f i r s t ,

b y the dir-

ectors o f each o f the Federal reserve banks; second, b y the
Governors!

third,

C o n f e r e n c e w i t h t h e Federal R e s e r v e Board;

b y the Federal Reserve Board.

T h e plan aweits t h e

appropriate l e g a l s t e p s t o b e p u t i n t o execution.

are, either,

a n act o f Congress,

and

T h e s e steps

o r incorpbration under a

general law by the authority at present possessed b y the Federal r e s e r v e banks.

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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

216=F

oresent

b

considerable t i n

h e organi-

e

Congress i n December,
Pensions C o m m i t t e e

o f t h e Governors!

t h e Board take i n t o consideration
u
U
.
that
the r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s

t o b e made

dum, t h a t t h e p e n s i o n

4 n Part I I I

o f t h i s mnemoran-

p l a n b e put i n t o operation a t t h e
given b y t h e c o u n s e l

form

t o f Columbia >

o f incornorati

a

OH

D

t k

PROPOSED PeNSTON PbAN

ypJsOT
‘cet o f t h e v r o p o s e d p e n s i o n p l a n i s t o a f f o r d
of v r o t e c t i o n

t o t h e o f f i c e r s a n d emplo;
= Shree o t t o e p r a n c e =
ase o f i n c a p a c i t y

due to

pension
s
pli
an

b y the

278-G
Feder: 1reserve b a n k s
operating t

rough

i s the i n c r e a s e

the followin

o f their efficiency

causes:

the e l i m i n a t i o n f r o m t h e s e r v i c e

o f those i n -

or disease,
improvement
nsclousness

of a

o f the morale

o f the force

r e a s nardle m e a s u r e

o f pro-

‘tthe vrincipal d a n g e r s o f l i f e ,

third, t h e stabilization o f the service o f the banks
through t h e r e t e n t i o n

o f their s e r v i c e o f c a p a b l e o f f i c e r s

and employees.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Fourth, t h e attraction o f the adler type o f young m a n
service

o f t h e banks.
Vin P R O T E C T I O N s G a i n s t SUPsRANNUAYTION
WHEN aAVATLABLE

The o f f i c e r

o r employee m a y retire, u v o n application,

of sixty-five.

H

e must retire a t the age o f

seventy, except that n o officer o r employee i n the service
of t h e b a n k s w h e n t h e o r o p o s e d p e n s i o n s y s t e m s o e s i n t o o p e r ation s h a l l b e c o m p e l l e d

t o retire u n t i l f i v e years there-

after.

veen fenerally adopted,
in banking a n d ge i f o c c u p a t i o n s ,
oO

ive r e t i r e m e n t

a n d there seems

a s the a g e o f permiss-

t o valid reason f o r varying

Prom “Cots U s e re.
HOt. W e l l Deo m i e n

T s e

r i d s u o eer ze

she g e n e r e l p u r p o s e o f t h e F e d e r a l r e s e r v e b a n k s
g

a vension system.
n

u lp

i
b

e p u t nl o w e r w i t h o u t

e eo f retirement
m

f o r

tor i n t h e v e n s i o n s y s t e m ,
e n g

i n vlan-

a
largest
i s the

o n e yeer

G~.

y

r e tri r e moe n t

s

l

u

p

m

o

beC r e -

more then counterbalanced d y a d v a n t a g e o f
ing many o l d men who, although incompetent, cannot b e persuaded<.0f -bhat<—facth.
h as

c

u

Williamss C o l l e g e ,

whereby t h e c o m p u l s o r y


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

l a u deases.
i v i df ne ir

provision

suspena

c o m m u l s o r y

ret

avoid l e g i s l a t i o n o f

(HR A G E A L L O W A N C E
allowance


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

average s a l a r y s u r i n g t h e e n t i r e p e r i o d o f
service w i t h t h e banks, multirx

Rverasce s a l a r y i s a

o f years

s d o y t h e number

of

much

terminal salery o r p e r i o d s o f terminal selary,

a s for ex-

T h e

-he five years preceding retirement.

nay v e dangerous i n periods o f violent
they l e n d t h e m s e l v e s

t o oractices

aimed

a t bringing

hicher vensions, a n d t h e y tend t o prevent demotion o r
method o f vart pay.
ie

7 1 g i n tyoieal c a s e s w i l l w o r k o u t a s follows:

An employee entering t h e service o f the bank a t the
twenty-one,

a t a

salary

a n d advencing,

o f ,600.00

accore

3859.00.
employee e n t e r i n g t h e s e

s

e bank a t

h

ve y e a r s

00,

O U I DS retreive 2

t o a

s e oension o f » 957.00.

entering a t
P i p e L o a mere L i v e y e a r s 7

a

vension o f ~5,958.00.

a


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

fi
An
employer e n t e r i n g

of 310,000.00;
of. ,»15,668.00,

e n d a d v e n c i n g a f t e r tcuirty y e a r s t o «
p

e

n

s

i

saleny

n o f 35,951.00.

o

pension < i v e n b Y a p o l i c e a t i o n o f t h e f o r m an a v e a l l o w e n c e

which

+n degree o f
ard o f living usually a d opted b y
minal s a l a r i e s

pected.

provide f o r a

t o his income
closer apvroximation
sak
1

pension s y s t e m t o a t t e m p t t h i s w o u l d b e t o
a burden f o r t h e employing banks a n d t o

a part o f the salary o f the officer o r
é

in this f o r m u l a r a n g e ,
from one. t o bWvoO p e r cent.

i n p e n s i o n systems,

O n e p e r cent.,

terninal salary, w o u l d hardly vroduce
ner cent.,. w h e n t h e

worranted.
was a d o p t e d a

i

n force.

n

e a2

n

a

i n S s ereat n u m b e r

of

use o f t h e y e a r s

o f service

e

i n the formula r e -


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

the p e r -

PROTSOTION aGal ( O T A L AND PuKeane? DISABILITY
WHEN AVaTLApLE
Any o f f i c e r

o r employee t o t a l l y a n d permanently d i s -

a, e i t n e r o h y s i e a l l y o r mentally,

eite

l

e year's s e r -

s+.

vice with t h e bank, s h a l l b e entitled t o a n allowance,
providing t h a t a

physical e x a m i n a t i o n h a d

the b a n k u v o n l i s e n t r a n c e 4 n t o t h e service.

f l e smpavaware yoyacat

PAVE. Vears?
Pro TeCbs 01
almost n e c e s s a r y i f t h e
from e x c e s s i v e p r e s s u r e

i n e x c e o t i o n a l cases.
in a

will a r i s e
ut

pénsion s y s t e m unless

278-1;
s

tothe period o f five years, insurance opinions
A

421,
i

incline t o r e g a r d t h e e f f e c t

o f a n initial p h y s i c a l ex-=

amination a s b e i n g w i t h o u t s e l e c t i v e e f f e c t b e y o n d t h i s
period.

A:UUNT OF ALLOWANCE FOR TOTAL AND PsKianisNt DISABILITY
The a m o u n t

o f the ellowance f o r total a n d permanent

disability i s o n e and one-quarter v e r cent.

o f the average

salary during t h e entire veriod o f service with the banks,

multiplied b y the number o f such years o f service.
that a

I n order

pension o f s o m e r e a s o n a b l e a d e q u a c y m a y b e p r o v i d e d

in case total a n d permanent disability occurs i n the earlier years o f service,

i t i s provided t h a t s u c h pension

shall a l w a y s r e p r e s e n t o n e a n d o n e - q u a r t e r v e r cent.

o f the

average salary, miltiplied b y twenty years o f service,
even i f t h e v e r i o d o f s e r v i c e i s l e s s t h e n t w e n t y years.
In n o case, h o w e v e r , s h a l l t h e a l l o w a n c e f o r t o t a l a n d ver-=

manent disability b e greater t h a n would have b e e n the retir~
ing allowance i f the beneficiary h a d remeined i n service
until t h e a g e o f sixty- f i v e .


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

O P:.SS UPON APPLICATIONS
MyoTCaL BOARD T
FOR T O T s L a N D F R R i u N E N T DISSBILTRY.
The v e n s i o n e d m i n i s t r a t i o n o s h n a l l

create a

medical

278=<i
consisting o f physicians o f standing
for t h e m e d i c a l e x a m i n a t i o n s


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

o f all

ing f o r v e n s i o n s f o r t o t a l a n d »vermanent disability,
dSetsi

such m e d i c a l b o a r d , u p o n t h e m e d i c a l

o mf

by t h e e x a m i n i n g v h y s i c i a n

s o appointed

by

shall b e final a n d c o n e l u s i v e u p o n s u c h applications.
PROTHCTIUN T O W H P A M I L Y 1 N : V E N T O F D a t e
benefit

i s provid

e d f o r t h e officers a n d mem-

bers o f t h e F e d e r a l r e s e r v e b a n k s w i o d i e i n acti v e service,
to o n e v e a r ' s s a l a r y o f s a i d o f f i s

cer

fi m e y y

o b1

t t h e time

2

o f n i s death.

S a i d death bene-

payable a t o n c e o r i n a n y installments,

at t h e o v t i o n o f t h e o f f i c e r

o r o f t h e einployee o r a t t h e

o f t h e beneficiary.

option

TO woOkh P A Y A B L E

The d e e t h b e n e f i t
ficiery,

i s payable

o r , w i t h t h e approval

t o the estate o f the bene~

o f t h e p e n s i o n ad: inistration,

manner a s d i r e c t e d

b y t h e officer

o r employee.

MAXI m u h :

Wo c o n t r i b u t i o n s s n a l l b e m a d e b y a n o f f i c e r h i m s e l f
nor b y t h e b a n k o n h i s b e n e l f

o n any part o f a

salary i n

excess

o f $18,000.00;

n o r shall a n y part o

excess

o f s u c h amount

b e used i n calculating a n y pension o r

death b e n e f i t .

[aL SUPPORT
CONTRIBUTIUNS

O F ©SNSION P L A N
O F F ICeRS « N D bie PLOYEuS

BY He

The pensions a r e t o b e supvorted b y a contribution

ron)

vided between t h e officers o r employees a n d the Federal
reserve b a n k o n a n approximately equal basis.
by t h e o f f i c e r s


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

a n d employees

are

‘ h e -eyments

t o b e percentages

salary, g r a d u a t e d a c c o r d i n g t o t h e a g e o f entrance

o f

o f the

officer o r employee i n t o t h e service o f the bank, that is,
according t o the number o f years o v e r which the contribution
is t o b e vaid.

T h e rates

o f contribution

a t t h e different

ages o f entrance are given i n the footnote. ( S e e Note.5)
The a r g u m e n t s f o r a
overwhelming. A

vartially contributing p l a n s e e m

wholly contributing p l a n does n o t rep~

resent t h e interest o f the employer i n the retirement o f
aged.

o r disabled employees,

supvort

a n d cannot

g a i n the cordial

o f t h e staff, - A plan w i t h o u t e o n t r i b u t i o n s - o y t h e

employee,

o n t h e o t h e r hand, w h i l e l a y i n g a n u n d u e c h a r g e

on t h e c o r p o r a t i o n treasury, d o e s n o t a s s i s t

i n the devel-

opment o f interest i n the staff a n d lends itself t o censtant d e m a n d s

o n t h e v e r t o f t h e s t a f f o r t h e i r leaders.

Where t h e plan o f partial contributions i s adopted t h e
usuel a n d m o s t c o n v e n i e n t d i v i s i o n i s t o m a k e t h e resvnective
contributions a p o r o x i m a t e l y equal.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Tt h a s b e e n f o u n d v e r y d i f f i c u l t

t o devise a n y

of ovension w h i c h d o e s n o t r e g e r d t h e s a l a r y scale.
quate v e n s i o n f o r t h e d o o r m a n o f a
very m u c h t o a
terms

cashier.

o f salary,

I

bank w o u l d n o t m e a n

f the pension i s calculated

in

o f c o u r s e t h e c o n t r i b u t i o n s m u s t b e also.

The o n l y s c i e n t i f i c m e t h o d o f c a l c u l a t i n g c o n t r i b u t i o n s

in terms o f salary i s according t o age a t entrance.

ther-

wise a v e r a g e s m u s t b e employed, w h i c h a r e not. o n l y d a n g e r -

financially, b u t work injustice i n extreme cases.
iduals a f f e c t e d

b y this i n j ;

r h e

a r e almost c e r t a i n

of it, a n d they act a s a centre o f dissatisfaction
with t h e pensionasystem. A

f e w such,

¢ s pecially i f t h e y a r e

and voluble individuals, c a n practically nullify
peneficial influence o f t h e p e n s i o n s y s t e m o n t h e staff.
PERCGENGAGHS O F S A L A R Y P A Y A B L E A S H A T E S
OF C O N T R I B U T I O N

B Y tePLUYsnS

A N D B Y BaNKS

Age a t P a y a b l e P a y a b l e P a y a o l e b y P a y a b l e b y
B a n k s for B e n k s for
b
y
b y
Hntrance
F e m a l e
M a l e
F e m a l e
hiale
b
m
p
l
o
y
e
es Employees
E
m
p
l
o
y
e
e
s
Employees

2£78=—P
Pavable
by

Age a

Entrance


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

Wale
Employees

Payable

P a y a b l e by
Banks f o r
Male
bmplovees

Zo

3206

26

5645

Mt
on
AS

Payable b y
Banks f o r
Female
impoloyees.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

STB
Payable

by
Female
Employees

5.40
5251

v

Payable b y P a y a b l e
Banks

for

kmployees
6.94
ry

p e ind

LVEDD

B a n k s

by

for


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

RETURN OF CONTRIBUTIONS TO ©
All c o n t r i b u t i o n s m a d e v y a n o f f i c e r

o r employee a r e t o

be returned t o him w ith interest i n the event o f his resigo r vaid with interest t o his estate

nation o r dismissal,

or t o a beneficiary designated b y h i m with the consent o f
the vension administration,

i n the event o f his death be-

fore r e t i r e n c n t .
A return o f c o n t r i b u t i o n s

i n a n y event t h a t t h e officer
is

or employee d o e s n o t r e c e i v e t h e f u l l b e n e f i t t h e r e o f
morally obligatory,

a n d t h e s a m e t h i n g applies

to a

rea-

sonable r a t e o f interest.
FuDskz.L R E S E R V E B A N K S
The b a n k s w i l l m a k e a

,

i

i

n nercentage

OL

salary, gradu a t e d according t o the a g e o f entrance i n t o
the servi c e o f the bank b y the officer o r employes, a c cording t o the figures a i v e n i n footnote. ( S e e Note 5 )
Pie

N s OF

the death o f a n officer o r emoloyee after h e has
retired a n d his name h a s been olaced u n o n t h e vension list,
there shall b e oaid t o nis estate,

o r t o a beneficiary desig-

nated b y him with the consent o f the pension administration,
all contributions w i t h interest m a d e either b y h i m o r by.
the F e d e r e l r e s e r v e

bank

o n nis behalf

which have not peen


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

tov S e o

O r r veer: o r

Note 6 - - T h e c o s t o f

October 1 , 1920, w a s a s follows:
Boston

New Y o r k

Philedelphia
Cleveland
Richmond

21,008

48, 560

The d i f f e r e n c e

detween

act that t h e bank provides entirely f o r


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

and second;
eco

t h e f a c t t h a t t h e contriboutic

s e u l e ted: omc i h e

ime Federal reserve banks will pay, a t she inauguration
of t h e v e n s i o n s y s t e m o r i n a n

equivalent manner, one-half
j o f the pension

of w h e t w o u l d heave b e e n i n t h e
fund T o r any: s i v e n o r t i c e r

contributions a c c o r d i n g

o r employee

a t that time

if

t o t h e t a b l e h e r e with a n n e

been p a i d s i n c e t h e s a i d o f f i c e r

o r smployes entered
for 6 8 6 0 h o f E L e e r

Nension system,

w h o himself pays,

the
o r

o r makes s a t i s f a c t o r y

Jensiionnadministration f o r the payment,
the other one-half o f said contrioutions. ( S e e Note 7).
The a c c r u e d l i a b i l i t i

e s represent t h e s u m which a

fon fund should pvossess a t its establishment t o equal
e c o n t r i b u t i o n s w i thh i n t e r e s t

by the officers o r emoloyecs o r

which w otu l d h a v e b e e n m a d e

i

r behalf s o thet

previous service m a y b e represented b y pensions according
GO

bhe r u l e p r o v i d e d E h e r é s or.
The a c c r u e d l i a b i l i t i e s

must

b e vaid into the pension

ay
fund treasury f r o m some quarter. O t h e r w i s e ,

the p e n s i o n


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

system w i l l o n l y b e e d e q u e t e v r a c t i c a l l y f o r n e w e n t r a n t s

into t h e service o f the banks, e n d the beneficial operation
of t h e s y s t e m o v e r a

considerable part. o f i t s f i e l d b e d e -

ferred f o r m a n y years.

I

n practice,

t h e accrued liabilities
b y the employing

are p a i d , p r e c t i c a l l y w i t h o u t e x c e p t i o n ,

I n deference t o Senator Smoot's objections,

corporations.

the P e n s i o n G o m m i t t e e a m e n d e d i t s o r i g i n a l p l a n =
cost o f t t

l

i

a

b

i

that. t h e

i e s i s divided between t h e banks

and. t h e i r s t a f f s .

Note 7

- -

at t h e i n c e p t i o n :

T h e contributions

b y t h e banks,

o f one- H a t e oof

o f t h e p e n s i o n system,

o n October l , 1920,

the a c c r u e d l i a b i l i t i e s , w a s ,

4 70,105.00
New Y o r k

£ 8 2 , 1 0 5 , . 5 0

Philadelphia
Cleveland

Atlanta

5 5 , 7 0 6 . 0 0

7 9 , 8 3 0 . 5 0
4

Richmond
3

8
1

Kansas C i t y

,
,

7
6

6
9

2

.

0

0

0

.

5

0

0 , 1 6 5 . 0 0

Dallas 4 9 , 6 9 7 . 5 0
San Prancisce

t o b e paid

8 3 , 5 9 4 . 0 0

a s follows:

273-V
fo l a y n o r e t h a n t h i s o n t h e s h o u l d e r s
and e m p l o y e e s

i s impreci b

ties a r e imporative,


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

e f t h e officers

m e n d as t h e a c c r u e d l i a b i l i -

t h e successful organization

o f the. p e n -

system i s devendent u n o n t h e »sermission b y the B o r d
the r e s p e c t i v e F e d e r a l r e s e r v e b a n k s a p v r o p r i a t e o n e tabilities e r i s i n g

i n e a c h bank.

OF P R O r O S H D P e l STON P L A N
O FPeboRAL R E S U R V E B M A S
OFFICERS A N D b e é i r L U Y e n S F
The p r o p o s e d v e n s i o n o l e n s h e l l o e c o m p u l s o r y u p o n a l l

officérs a n d employees o f the Federal reserve banks w h o
enter t h e service o f any o f sa@id banks after t h e date o f the
establishment

o f t h e v e n s i o n system, o r ,

i n c a s e said offi-

cer o r employee i s below t h e a g e o f twenty-.one u p o n Ais entrance,

u v o n his attaining

s a i d age.

The p l a n s h a l l b e e l e c t i v e v o o n a l l o f f i c e r s a n d e m DLoyees a n . t h e - s e r y i c e

o f

a m F e d e r a l reserve

bank

time w h e n t h e » e n s i o n s y s t e m s o e s i n t o operation;

a t the

they may

as they choose, b u t s u c h election must b e exerthe i n a u c u r e t i o n

of

the s y s t e m .

BM PLOYRisS O F i t s FebDinaL R E S s R V E B o a r
ro

The pension v l a n shell b e oven under t h e above vrovi-

sions t o the employees o f the Federal Reserve Board,
Board s h a l l d e c i d e t h a t i t w i s h e s

i f the

t o enter t h e systen f o r

its employees.
-

MEMBER B A N A S

Tiss
A N D TRUST ComPAN

for the
m a y make vrovision
a
d
m
i
n
i
s
t
r
a
y
i
o
n
The p e n s i o n
admission

o f 2

member

o r trust company

bank

a r y

( a e a oe

u p o n said bank
officers a n d employees
i
t
s
f
o
r
s
y
s
t
e
m
gion
share o f the
i t s spovortionate
or t r u s t c o a n y v a y i n g

i n rea n d upon s u c h terms
administration,
of the vension


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

ecrued l i a b i l i t i e s
iinterest

a s shall b e equitable

t o aly

i n t h e o e n s i o n system.

I N b V e N T O F D e ATH
PROTECTION F O R 7 : MiLY
benefit
Me c o s t o f t h e d e a t h

at
o f one year's s a l a r y

Federal r e f o r entirely o y the
paid
1
s
death
o
f
the tine
panks.

deceased o f f i c e r
T h e family o f the

o r em~

made into t h e pension
lso r e c e i v e s t h e c o n t r i b u t i o n

payme
fund b y him with interest.Tiese
f
cient t o v r o v i d e n e r m a n e n t l y
family.

t h e

a a y n o t b e suffkr

orovisions,
T o supviement t h e s e

t

s

o r employee's

t h e officers a n d

orivisystem shall have t h e
employees w i t h i n “ h e p e n s i o n
lege

o f taking

o u t 1 i f e insurance,

the p e n s i o n a d m i n i s t r a t i o n ,

i n its warious forms,

e t actuerial c o s t e

THe A D A I N I S T R e r I U N

O F "As

s h a l l b e administered,
The p r o p o s e d s y s t e m

tuarial reserve basis,

from

b y a corporati a

o n GAS

B o

consisting o f twenty-

six trustees, twelve t o b e «lected
a
Federal reserve banks, o n e f o r each bank, a n d twelve b y

officers a n d employee:
twO t r u s t e e s

byt

oloyees r e s v e c t i v e l y ,

i

o n e f o r each bank;

d ban!

F e d e r a l Reserve Board a n d i t s
i f the Board shall enter t h e system

T h e terms o f said trustees s h a l l b e s o

for i t s employees.
arraned

i

a s always

t o oreserve

i n said b o d y aucontinuity

o f

pension policy.
COST FOF a D w i n T S u n a t T o n
The c o s t o f a d m i n i s t e r i n g t h e v e n s i o n s y s t e m s h a l l b e
borne b y t h e F e d e r a l r e s e r v e b a n k s p r o r a t a i n t h e v r o p o r tion o f t h e i r a n n u a l c o n t r i b u t i o n s t h e r e t o

o n behalf

of

their respective officers and employees.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

PaRE: L i t
ReCOnmukNDatIoNS

O F THE PeNSIONS COMmiTten

USBRVE B A L K S P O W A T DiSsbVaANTAGH
COMAUN ITY
ederal r e s e r v e b a n k s
competition

are 9

t o obtain a n d

d a t a

disadvantage

t o rétain able officers

employees while t h e y a r e unarle t o oromise thei r
reasonabcle m e a s u r e

and

staff sane

o f s e n s i o n protection.

PROBLEM M U C H ACCLAKTUATED B Y tlusRE P L S S a G e O F T I M E
reason f o r v r o m o t a c t i o n m a y b e a d d e d a

second;

Any p e n s i o n s c h e m e

i s complicated

b y the oroblem

o f the ac-

n the v e r y early years

o f a n organiza-

$i6n, t h i s p r o b l e m 2 3 c o m p a r a t i v e l y s i m p l e .

I t s difficulty

itie:

crued a

I

i

: Gar’ Set Hag

grows rapidly. ;

f

g

culty h a s b e e n m u c h e n h a n c e d

i n the t w o years which have

elapsed s i n c e t h e p e n s i o n o l a n w a s f i r s t f o r m u l a t e d .

Your

committee e a r n e s t l y r e c o m m e n d t h e t a c t i o n b e t a k e n o n t h e
sywestion o f pensions

the nroblem o f t h e s


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

i n the Federal reserve banks before

x

4 liabilities grows s o difficult

solution m u s t n e c e s s a r i l y b e o f a n u n s a t i s f a c t o r y
Wavbucse.

ACTION B Y C O N G R E S S PROBLsMaATICsL

To await t h e passage o f a n act o f incorporation b y Gongress w i l l i n v o l v e m u c h delay;

a n d i t m a y b e that, u n d e r e x -

sting circumstances, s u c h a n act might n o t b e able t o
receive c o n s i d e r a t i o n d u r i n g t h e C o n g r e s s w h i c h
vene i n December.

T o make t h e establishment

W i

cone

o f t h e voension

system f o r t h e F e d e r a l r e s e r v e b a n k s d e p e n d e n t u p o n t h e a c ceptation o f t h i s m e t h o d o f l e g a l p r o c e d u r e m a y t h e r e f o r e
mean i n d e f i n i t e v o s t p o n e m e n t .

VixBOARD HAS POWER VO ACT
The a l t e r n a t i v e m e t h o d r e c o r m e n d e d
the c o m m i t t e e

i s available

a t once.

b y the counsel t o

_ t i s n o w well estab-

lished t h e t corpor:.tions gener-.lly p o s s e s s t h e p o w e r

t o their power t o

sblish pension systems a s a n incide

ony saleries f o r work done, bensions being, f r o m a scientific
standpoint, m e r e l y d é f e r r e d salaries.

T h e counsel

t o the

has a d v i s e d t h a t t h e F e d e r a l r e s e r v e b a n k s a l s o
possess t h i s p o w e r u n d e r t h e a c t w h i c h e s t a b l i s h e d t h e

The counsel h a s also reported t h a t
o
this vower c a n b e exercised effectively under t h e

incorporation l a w o f t h e D i s t r i c t

Your committee, therefore,
solution o f 2

Board

o f Columbia.

e s t

question w h o s e d e c i s i o n

2 s will suthorize

t h e directors

o n l y practical
i s o f high importance

o f the Federal reserve

banks t o take t h e eporopriate legal steps, a s advised b y


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

counsel,

t o inaugurate a

pension system a s outlined i n this

renort, e n d t o make t h e appropriation f o r their share o f
accrued l i a b i l i t i e s

a n d o f the annual contribution

gsuovort s e i d s y s t e m s a s h a s
POR

W a T 5

PORWAL

been

h e r e i n indicated.
E I T

nea

foment

P U
E
OrpinluN BY. C O U N S E

o
a
r
s t o e e e iP

LaGeL

t o

as the. a u t h o r i t y u n d e r l a w

less t h e paramount consideration w i t h the Board, y o u r committee
closes this :1emorandum b y siving i n full t h e formal legal
opinion o f its counsel. (Letter o f December 2Y,1920 o f Mrs

Gurtis, apvended. )

January 24, 1925, Mir
‘rman o f the committee, reviewed t h e legal
oreviously taken,

such as t t Jrafting

o f the p r o p o -

sedNe a c t o f incorvoration b y Congress, a n d concluded asfollowss

““Jowever,

t u r a l l y remainnstill

o f the opinion that

the P e d e r a l r e s e r v e b a n k s u n d e r
to e s t a b l i s h

t h e » w r o n o s e c p ea 5n s i o n s y s3 t e m

s
either under their o w n control a s individual banks,

Ly t h r o u g h t h e i n s t r u m e n t a l i t y
the l a w s o f t h e D i s t r i c t


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

of a

o f Columbia

corporation o r g a n i z e d u n d e r
o r o t h e r s i m i l a r entity.

proposed
difficulty

o r joint-

b y such 2

c e established

£78-B-B

December 2 7 , 1 9 2 0
Dear hir, Kenzel:
In accordance w i t h y o u r request, I
giving b e l o w

m y views w i t h r e s p e c t

eral r e s e r v e b a n k t o m a k e p a y m e n t s

take p l e a s u r e

t o t h e right o f a
to 4

corporation

other entity f o r t h e vurpose o f vroviding a

in
Fed-

or

fund o u t o f

which shall b e paid pensions o r other forms o f relief for
the banks! o f f i c e r s a n d e m p l o y e e s a n d t h e i r dependents,
As y o u a r e aware,

t h e views expressed herein a r e merely a

more formal statement o f the opinions w h i c h I have alpeady
rendered t o your committee o n several occasions.
questions i n v o l v e d a p p e a r

T h e legal

t o m e t o b e three.

a Pederal r e s e r v e b a n k t h e s t a t u t o r y p o w e r t o
set a s i d e a
pensions

fund t o b e u s e d f o r t h e p u r p o s e

o f providing

o r other forms o f relief f o r i t s officers a n d

employees a n d their dependents under t h e powers granted
to i t b y v i r t u e o f t h e v r o v i s i o n s

o f Section 4

of the

Federal R e s e r v e A c t ?

ee A s s u m i n g t h e foresoing question i s answered i n the

affirmati v e may the bank set aside the fund i n the h a

o f

a corvoration o r o t h e r s n t i t y o r g a n i z e d f o r t h e s o l e p u r -

pose o f providing s u c h pensions a n d other relief, without

profit t o itself, and use such entity . 3 an instrumentality i n t h e a d m i n i s t r a t i o n

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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

o f t h e pension o r relief system?

278-C-G

cing a s i d e o f a
relief f u n d o u t o f t h e e a r n i n g s

o r surplus

pension o r

o f the bank

conflict « i t h t h e p r o v i s i o n s c o n c e r n i n g t h e d i s p o s i t i o n
of earnings

o f t h e b a n k a s vrovided

i n Section 7

of the

Federal Reserve A c t a s amended b y the Act o f March 3 , 1919?
The p e r t i n e n t p r o v i s i o n s

follows: S e c t i o n 4

provides that e a c h Federal reserve

bank "shall have power poard o f directors

o f these t w o sections a r e a s

H

.

O G . OXeYC ise O y its

o r duly authorized officers

all p o w e r s s p e c i f i c a l l y g r a n t e d
act a n d s u c h i n c i d e n t a l n o w e r s


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

R

o r agents

b y the vrovisions

o f this

a s gs: all b e n e c e s s a r y

to

carry o n the business o f banking within t h e limitations

prescribed b y this act."

Section 7, as amended, provides that "after a e necessary e x p e n s e s

of a

Federal r e s e r v e b a n k

or provided for, t h e stockholders shall b e entitled t o receive a n a n n u a l d i v i d e n d o f s i x p e r c e n t u m x

x x x x. A f t e r

the a f o r e s a i d d i v i d e n d c l a i m s h a v e b e e n f u l l y m e t t h e n e t
earnings s h a l l b e p a i d t o t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s

as a

franchise

tax, eReept that t h e whole o f such net earnings, including
those f o r the year ending December 31, 1918, shall b e paid
into a

surplus f u n d u n t i l

i t shall amount

t o o n e hundred p e r

centum o f the subscribed capital stock o f such bank % x x."

278-D=-D
Taking u n , f i r s t ,

s h e question raised a s t o whether t h e

proposed v l a n f o r vensiion o r o t h e r r e l i e f i s w i t h i n t h e p o w e r s

of the bank under t h e »rovisions o f Section 4 , I find that
the bank a t oresent, a m o n g others, exercises t h e following
incidental powers:


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

(a) I t sets u p e general reserve account, which i s
carried u p o n t h e b o o k s o f t h e b a n k f o r t h e p u r p o s e

O L DPOs

viding f o r possible, t h o u g h unascertained losses,
(bo)

I t insures t h e lives o f a l l i t s officers a n d

employees under a

group volicy with the #Hquitable Life As-

surance Society, under t h e terms o f which the life o f each
officer a n d employee i s insured f o r t h e amount o f one year's
annual salary,

n o t t o e x c e e d i n a n y c a s e ~5,000,

ance t o 2 0 a s directed

b y the insured b u t subject

t h e insurt o the gen-

control o f the bank a s t o method o f distribution.

T h e

vays t h e w h o l e v r e m i u m f o r t h i s insurance.

tc) I t operates a

Welfare Department, s e t t i n g aside

various rooms i n the Equitable Building, rented b y the n k ,
for rest rooms, cafeteria, hosoital rooms a n d administra-

tion offices.

T h e bank also pays the salaries o f several

persons whose whole time i s occupied w i t h the welfare w o r k
includi

n g f o u r nurses,

a n d t w o d o c t o r s w i o g i v e p a r t time.

(d) I t has s e t aside a

self insurence f u n d b y which i t

insures t h e f i d e l i t y o f i t s o f f i c e r s a n d employees.

If Section 4 were strictly construed, I would say that
no o n e o f t h e s e f t e t i v i t i e s

i s absolutely necessery t o

o f banking within t h e dimitations p r e =

carry o n t h e b u s i n e s s

seribed 5 y t h e Federal Reserve Act.

O n the other hand, I

am c l e a r l y o f i o v i n i o n t h e t t h e s e a c t i v i t i e s a r e o f 2

char-

acter t h a t m a y f a i r l y b e c a l l e d i n c i d e n t a l a n d n e c e s s a r y
to t h e o p e r a t i o n s

of 2

Federal r e s e r v e b a n k ,

i n v i e w o f mod-

ern banking conditions a n d taking a liberal v i e w o f the intention o f Congress i n using t h e phrase “ s u c h incidental


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

power a s shall b e necessary," etc.
This c o n v i c t i o n

i s greatly strengthened

b y the considera-

tion o f the trend o f ovinion i n this country, a n d indeed
throughou t

the civilized world, w i t h respect t o the obli-=

gations resting v o o n t} a r g e employers o f labor t o make
appropriate provisions f o r the health, s a f e t y a n d welfare
ana f u t u r e i n d e p e n d e n c e

o f t h e i r employees.

correct r e l a t i o n s h i p b e t w e e n canital
one o f t h e f o r e m o s t q u e s t i o n s

J u s s a 8 cne

a n d laccr h a s become

o f the day s

a e puplic* o p i n

jon o f the world, including t h e views o f our courts o f law,
come m o r e a n d m o r e t o t h e o o i n t o f v i e w t h a t e x p e n d i t u r e s

of

money b y c o r p o r a t i o n s ( i n c l u d i n g b a n k i n g c o r p o r a t i o n s a m o n g
a

others) f o r t h e b e n e f i t

i

>=

o f their employees

i n various f o r m s

278-F-F
is a

vroper a n d l e g i t i m a t e e x p e n d i t u r e

o f <funds.-=hb-28-we ls:

knowm that many o f the larger industrial, commercial a n d
panking o r g a n i z a t i o n s

o f the country have established

ven-

sion and relief funds a n d systems within t h e past t w o decades.

I n this regard, I

chants! A s s o c i a t i o n

o f New York o f a

industrial v e n s i o n s a n d a
tems p u b l i s h e d

i n 1920.

t o the Mer-

quote f r o m t h e r e p o r t

special c o m m i t t e e

non

s u r v e y o f industrial p e n s i o n s y s -

A f t e r speaking

o f the pension

systems established b y the american bhxpress Company i n 1875,
Baltimore &

Ohio Railroad i n 1889, a n d the First National

Bank o f Chicago i n 1899, i t stetes that “the pension idea
first became vrominent w i t h the railroads, a

number o f wnich
T h e latest

adopted vension systems during 1903 o r earlier.
tendency i s s e e n a m o n s t h e b a n k i n g institubptons,

espeo=

fally the large banks o f New York City."


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

In m y ovinion, t h e course o f events i n tris regerd h a s
placed bevond question t h e propriety o f establishing pension funds w i t h corporate assets a s a matter o f bread sound
public volicy.
From another p o i n t o f view, m o r e technical
application, I

believe t h a t t h e e s t a b l i s n m e n t

fund m a y b e j u s t i f i e d f o r b a n k i n g T

n

and Federal reserve banks i n particula .

of a

vension

a n wenerat:
C
ePULOnS

I J refer t o the

2£75-G-G
point

o f view that

i n essence ovensions a r e wages.

i n this

regard, permit m e t o quote f r o m t h e report o f the Carnegie
Foundation f o r t h e A d v a n c e m e n t

o f Teaching, p r e s e n t e d

by

Mr, H e n r y S . Pritchett, President o f the Foundation, p u b e
lished i n 1916, i n which i s found t h e following statement:

"It i s generally agreed b y economists that a free pension
provided

b y a n employer, w h e t h e r t h a t e m p l o y e r

ment o r industrial organization,

i s i n effect a

be a

sovern-

part o f wages.

In order t o get a full understanding o f old age a n d service
pensions,
of a

t h e y should b e considered a

part o f t h e r e a l w a g e s

workman."
Of c o u r s e ,

this

that c o n t e m p l a t e d

i s particularly

b y your. committee

true

of a

plan s u c h a s

i n that t h e pension

end “other f o r m s o f Y e l i e r w i l t be. p a i d L o r o u t o f f u n d s
partly c o n t r i b u t e d

b y t h e e m p l o y e e a n d p a r t l y b y t h e bank.

In v i e w o f t h e s e c o n d i t i o n s , I

a m o f o»vinion t h a t t h e

first q u e s t i o n pronounded. should b e a n s w e r e d

tive, i.g@, t h a t a

Federal reserve b a n k has anthority under

the p r o v i s i o n s o f S e c t i o n 4
set a s i d e a
yensions

i n the affirma-

of the Federal Reserve A c t t o

fund t o b e u s e d f o r t h e purpose

o r other forms

o f vroviding

o f relief f o r i t s o f f i c e r s a n d

employees a n d t h e i r dependents.


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

We c o m e n o w t o a

consideration

o f che second question

e78<H-i

o r not t h e bank m a y s e t s u c h a

as t o w h e t h e r
the h a n d s

o f a

b e used

separate entity 1

tality i n t h e administration

fund aside i n

a s a n instrumen-

o f t h e s y s t e m w i t h o u t profit:

to

itself.
In m y o p i n i o n ,

d i f f e r e n c e -hether

i t makes

acbion a d m i n i s t r a t i o n o f - t h e 4

the

and system provided

s

i s

carried o n directly b y the Federal reserve b a n k o r through
an instrumentality created f o r the purpose. l i g e s o v e r , I
pelieve t h a t a

Federal r e s e r v e b a n k w o u l d h a v e a u t h o r i t y t o

purthase pvensions i n advance f r o m a n i n s u r a n c e

o r other

York ( a n d
company j u s t a s t h e F e d e r a l R e s e r v e B a n k o f N e w

as I

a m advised a l l t h e other Federal reserve b a n k s )

purchased t h e g r o u p l i f e i n s u r a n c e f r o m a

ance company.

well k n o w n i n s u r -

I f , a s I have indicated above, t h e .conten-

tion i s sound that F e d e r a l reserve b a n k m a y lawfully e x -


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

pend its funds f o r the wurvose o f sroviding pensions e n d
other f o r m s

o f relief

the v r e c i s e m e t h o d s

for i

ts employees

o f edministration

e n d t»eir dependents,

o f s u c h funds a r e i n -

material a n d the bank would b e authorizecto u s e s u c h agencies
or i n s t r u m e n t a l i t i e s

useful

o r appropriate

a s the Board

o f Directors

t o carry o u t t h e curposes

misht deem

o f the

Consequently, I have no hesitation i n answering the
second q u e s t i o n

i n the affirmative.

TBs i—1
4e n o w c o m e t o a
provounded,

t

consideratio

h

e tiird question

aside o f a
i . é . , w o u l d t h e “roposed s e t t i n g

pension o r r e l i e f f u n d o u t o f t h e e a r n i n g s

o r surplus

of 2

concernFederal r e s e r v e b a n k c o n f l i c t w i t h t h e o r o v i s i o n s
ing t h e d i s p o s i t i o n
Section 7

o f earnings

o f c h e b a n k a s provided

i n

by t h e A c t

o f t h e F e d e r a l R e s e r v e &£ct as. a m l

of diaron 6, 19197
With respect t o the provisions o f Bection.7,

L a n of

opinion t h e t t h e p h r a s e N o f t e r a l l n e c e s s a r y e x p e n s e s

of a

provided f o r "
Federal r e s e r v e b a n k h a v e b e e n p a i d o r

is

t h e descrivtion

o f

sufficiently

broad

t o include within

expenses" all the expenses which the directors o f
the b a n k i n t h e e x e r c i s e


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

=

pe n e c e s s a r y

o r proper

o f their best judgment consider

i n the conduct

to

o f t h e bank, pro-~

in
vided o f course thet t h e functions o r activities
ercise

o f w

wich t h e exoenses

are a u t h o r i z e d

b y the provisions

Consequently,
of S e c t i o n 4

what I

1

hav ,

. e t i f
w i t h respect

have i

and i t s application

- gee s u c h 2 6

bhe L e t s
t o the scope

t o the vroposed p l a n renders

unnecessary a n y e l a b o r a t e d i s c u s s i o

t

h

e e f f e c t o f Section

Te
o f law
In m y odinion, therefore there i s n o provision

218-J=i

which p r e v e n t s t h e v r o p o s e d p l a n f o r t h e estab.
operetionoof a

m

e

a n d
-

system o f pensions a n d other r e l i e f f o r F e d °

eral reserve b a n k officers a n d employees a n d their dependents

from being lawfully put inke operation.
Yours

v e r y truly,
CAMBS

Kenzel, Chetry
Committe
Reserve

5 Nassau Street, N e w York C i
JPC sEMM


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Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

h e CURTIS,


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