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Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 1 1 CITIZENS COINAGE ADVISORY COMMITTEE 2 MEETING/CONFERENCE 3 4 ______________________________________________ 5 6 DATE: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 7 TIME: 9:00 a.m. - 2:58 p.m. 8 LOCATION: Meeting/Conference 9 Department of the Treasury 10 801 9th Street NW 11 2nd Floor Conference Room 12 Washington, DC 20220 13 REPORTED BY: Timothy Guevara, Notary Public 14 JOB NO: 5350860 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 A T T E N D E E S Dr. Lawrence Brown, Chairperson of the CCAC Sam Gill, Representing the general public Dean Kotlowski, Qualified in American History Robin Salmon, Qualified in Mettalic Arts/Sculpture Mike Moran, Recommended by the Senate Minority Leader Donald Scarinci Dennis Tucker, Qualified in numismatics Peter Van Alfen, Qualified as a numismatic curator Arthur Bernstein, Representing the general public Harcourt Fuller, Recommended by the Speaker of the House Mary Lannin, Recommended by House Minority Leader Ventris Gibson, Director of Mint April Stafford, Chief Office of Design Management Megan Sullivan, Senior Design Specialist Boneza Hanchock, Design Manager Roger Vasquez, Design Manager Joe Menna, Mint Chief Engraver Mike Costello, manager, design and engraving Greg Weinman, senior legal counsel/counsel to the CCAC Robert Hoge, former CCAC member Jennifer Warren, Mint Liaison to the CCAC PRESENT VIA REMOTELY: Mike Unser, Coin News Media Group Paul Gilkes, Founder and editor Amos Media, Coin World Senior Editor Brandon Hall, Whitman Publishing Senior Editor Pam Borer, Design Manager 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ALSO PRESENT REMOTELY: Mr. Crozier Connor, Senior Legislative Deputy Gregory Olsen Anne Lown, Daughter of Dr. Bernhardt Lown Mr. Philip Arnzen, Deputy Legislative Director of the Office of the Governor, Michael L. Pierson Mae Krier, Former "Rosie the Riveter", Lori Gold, Daughter of Phyllis Gould Sarah Pritchard, executive director of "Rosie the Riveter" Trust Elizabeth Young, attorney advisor Mike White, Office of Corporate Communication www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 3 1 2 (Thereupon, the following meeting is had.) DR. BROWN: Good morning. I call to order 3 this meeting of the Citizens Coinage Advisory 4 Committee, for Tuesday, September 27, 2022. 5 Please note that this meeting is recorded and 6 transcribed. 7 For the sake of our public listeners, we 8 may prefer -- we may refer to ourselves during 9 the meeting as the CCAC. 10 The notice published and the Federal 11 Register included as an agenda item for today's 12 meeting, the review and discussion of candidate 13 designs for the Harlem Hell Fighters 14 Congressional Gold Medal. 15 this portfolio is not yet ready for review, and 16 will instead be presented at a future meeting. 17 I would like to remind each and every member of 18 the CCAC members, liaisons, and Mint employees 19 participating remotely to mute his or her 20 phone, or microphone on the Microsoft Teams 21 program when not talking, and to announce your 22 name at the beginning of each time you speak. 23 By the way, I didn't do that, Lawrence Brown. 24 25 We understand that Additionally, I remind the public that this is a listening only hearing for the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 4 1 public. Before we begin, and as this may be 2 the first time for those participating during a 3 meeting of the CCAC, I want to introduce the 4 members of the CCAC at this time, indicating 5 the diversity of the members. 6 my colleagues, present when I call your name. 7 Representing the general public, Sam Gill? 8 MR. GILL: 9 DR. BROWN: 10 Present. Specially qualified in American History, Dean Kotlowski? 11 MR. KOTLOWSKI: 12 DR. BROWN: 13 Present. Specially qualified in Medallic Arts or Sculpture, Robin Salmon? 14 MS. SALMON: 15 DR. BROWN: 16 Please respond, Present. Recommended by the Senate Majority Leader, Mike Moran. 17 MR. MORAN: Present. 18 DR. BROWN: Recommended by the Senate 19 Minority Leader, Donald Scarinci? 20 MR. SCARINICI: 21 DR. BROWN: 22 Specially qualified in Numismatics, Dennis Tucker? 23 MR. TUCKER: 24 DR. BROWN: 25 Present. Present. Specially qualified as a Numismatic Curator, Peter Van Alfen? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 5 1 MR. VAN ALFEN: 2 DR. BROWN: 3 Representing the general public, Arthur Bernstein. 4 MR. BERNSTEIN: 5 DR. BROWN: 6 the House, Dr. 7 DR. FULLER: 8 DR. BROWN: 9 Present. Present. Recommended by the Speaker of Harcourt Fuller? Present. Recommended by the House Minority Leader Mary Lannin? 10 MS. LANNIN: 11 DR. BROWN: Present. I am again Dr. Lawrence Brown, 12 representing the general public, and 13 Chairperson of the CCAC. 14 quorum. 15 I believe we have a The agenda for today's meeting, public 16 meeting, includes the following: presentation 17 of the CCAC Public Service Awards to Mr. Robert 18 Hoge, acceptance of the letters to the 19 secretary and approval of the minutes of our 20 June 14, 2022 meeting, review and discussion of 21 candidate designs for the Congressional Gold 22 Medal to Greg LeMond, review and discussion of 23 reverse candidate designs for the 2024 American 24 Innovation $1 coins honoring innovations in 25 Maine and Missouri, and finally, review and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 6 1 discussion of candidate designs for the 2 Congressional Gold Medal to women known as 3 "Rosie the Riveter". 4 proceedings, I asked the Mint liaison to the 5 CCAC, Ms. Jennifer Warren, if we are aware of 6 any members of the press who are remotely 7 signing into this public meeting. 8 9 MS. WARREN: Before we began our This is Jennifer Warren. Mike Unser of Coin News Media Group, founder 10 and editor; Paul Gilkes, Amos Media Coin World 11 Senior Editor; Brandon Hall, Whitman 12 Publishing, Senior Editor. 13 DR. BROWN: For the record, I would like 14 to also to confirm the following Mint staff, 15 and the former CCAC members attending the 16 meeting today. 17 present after I've called your name. 18 Ventris Gibson? 19 MS. GIBSON: 20 DR. BROWN: 21 Please indicate by saying Present. April Stafford, Chief Office of Design Management? 22 MS. STAFFORD: 23 MS. BROWN: 24 25 Director Present. Megan Sullivan, Senior Design Specialist? MS. SULLIVAN: Present. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 7 1 2 DR. BROWN: Boneza Hanchock, Design Manager? 3 MS. HANCHOCK: 4 DR. BROWN: Pam Borer, Design Manager. 5 MS. BORER: Present. 6 DR. BROWN: Roger Vasquez, Design Manager? 7 MR. VASQUEZ: 8 DR. BROWN: Russell Evans, Design Manager? 9 MR. EVANS: Present. 10 DR. BROWN: Joe Menna, Mint Chief 11 Present. Present. Engraver? 12 MR. MENNA: Present. 13 DR. BROWN: You know, I had to say 14 something delayed for that because -- Jennifer 15 Warren, Director of Legislative, 16 Intergovernmental Affairs and liaison to the 17 CCAC? 18 MS. WARREN: 19 DR. BROWN: 20 Present. Mike Costello, Manager, Design and Engraving? 21 MR. COSTELLO: 22 DR. BROWN: 23 Present. Greg Weinman, Senior Legal Counsel and counsel to the CCAC? 24 MR. WEINMAN: 25 DR. BROWN: Present. Elizabeth Young, attorney www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 8 1 advisor? 2 3 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: later. 4 5 She'll be coming on DR. BROWN: Mike White, Office of Corporate Communication? 6 MR. WHITE: Here. 7 DR. BROWN: Sir Robert Hoge, former CCAC 8 member? 9 MR. HOGE: 10 DR. BROWN: Present. And finally, the following 11 liaisons will be on the call with us today. 12 For the Greg LeMond Congressional Gold Medal, 13 we have the pleasure, because we have with us 14 Mr. 15 16 Crozier Connor. UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Probably coming on later. 17 DR. BROWN: Senior Legislative Assistant 18 for Representative Mike Thompson; for the 2024 19 American Innovation Dollar honoring innovation 20 in Maine, we have with us Deputy -- I'm sorry 21 -- 22 23 24 25 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Gregory Olsen. DR. BROWN: Deputy Gregory Olsen, and Anne Lown, the daughter of Dr. Bernard Lown, the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 9 1 subject of the innovation theme; for the 2024 2 American Innovation Coin honoring innovation in 3 Missouri, we have with us Mr. Philip Artin; 4 Deputy Legislative Director of the Office of 5 the Governor, Michael L. Pearson; and for the 6 Congressional Gold Medal to the women known as 7 a "Rosie the Riveter", we have with us Mae 8 Krier, a former "Rosie the Riveter"; Lori Gold, 9 the daughter of Phyllis Gold, a former "Rosie 10 the Riveter"; Sarah Pritchard, Executive 11 Director of "Rosie the Riveter" Trust. 12 to thank all of you for joining with us today. 13 I want I'd like to start with a question to the 14 Mint. 15 be addressed at this time? 16 seeing none. 17 Are there any other issues that need to Hearing none, As is my pattern, I would like to consider 18 this meeting in the context of matters of 19 significance to our society and roles of the 20 CCAC. 21 the year? 22 to autumn of the year, and for those of us in 23 the Northeast, it means returning to school, 24 and we know how we remember those number two 25 pencils. By the way, who does not like autumn of September represents the threshold Albeit we chart a little later than www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 10 1 many parts of the country. 2 September has heralded unfortunate historical 3 events, such as the execution in 1776 of the 4 Patriot Nathan Hale, and who can forget his 5 last words, "as I only regret that I have but 6 one life to lose for my country." And it still 7 looms, September still looms in the minds of 8 most, because of the worst terrorist attack in 9 the history of the United States on September 10 Looking back, 11, 2001. 11 September has also provided us historical 12 events, such as the establishment of Congress, 13 of the US Treasury, as the third presidential 14 cabinet of the U.S. Being a veteran, I would be 15 remiss if I did not include the establishment 16 of the United States Army, and the U.S. Armed 17 Forces in the ninth month of the year. 18 September is also the birth month of a number 19 of famous Americans, such as Supreme Court 20 Justices John Marshall and Warren Burger, 21 Patriots Samuel Adams and Marquis de Lafayette, 22 and other famous Americans in music such as 23 George Gershwin, happens to be from Brooklyn, 24 and in sports, Jesse Owens. 25 forgive me as I take this point of personal Now, please www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 11 1 privilege, and mention for the record another 2 person very close to me, who just celebrated 3 her birthday, my wife, Dr. Faith Brown. 4 Since we are going to be discussing 5 designs pertaining to innovations, I would be 6 remiss if I did not mention two matters related 7 to this topic. 8 the British scientist Michael Faraday, whose 9 invention ultimately led to the development of September is the birth month of 10 electric generators. Even more significant, 11 chewing gum was first produced commercially for 12 the first time in September of 1848. 13 certain dentists probably say, you know, that's 14 significance to them. 15 September is also a month of historical 16 significance. 17 Fowler laid the cornerstone of the fourth 18 Philadelphia Mint Building. 19 release by the US Mint announced production of 20 the American Gold Eagles in 1986, Platinum 21 Eagles in 1996, and coins honoring the Botanic 22 Garden in 94, Basketball Hall of Fame (by the 23 way, I love basketball; I thought I was going 24 to perhaps do that professionally) and 2019, 25 the 75th anniversary of the end of the World I'm sure Closer to numismatics, In 1968, Treasury Secretary September press www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 12 1 War II in 2020, and even closer to the hearts 2 of many of us on the CCAC, the appointment of 3 none other than Dr. Harcourt Fuller to the CCAC 4 last September. 5 September 2022, will join its predecessors as a 6 phenomenal chapter in the history of the CCAC. 7 Based on today's agenda, Now turning -- and thank you for your 8 patience with this chair of the CCAC. I know 9 that you'll probably say he's unique. You may 10 have other words to say as well, but we have 11 those as a sidebar. 12 Turning to the first order of business for 13 this committee is the presentation of the 14 Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Public 15 Service Award to Mr. Robert Hoge. 16 recognition of his loyal service, Director 17 Gibson will finally -- will be making the 18 presentation to him today. In Director? 19 MS. GIBSON: 20 you so much, Dr. 21 thank each and every one of you for joining us 22 today. 23 And good morning and thank Brown, for that intro and I had the honor from the Philadelphia the 24 first Mint, we're welcoming the treasurer of 25 the United States today to the Mint, and thus, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 13 1 2 I am not there with you. Mr. Robert Hoge was first appointed to the 3 CCAC in 2012 and then reappointed in 2016 as 4 the member specifically qualified in numismatic 5 curation. 6 as curator of North American Coins and currency 7 at the American Numismatic Society in New York 8 City, where he later served as Curator 9 Emeritus. From 2001 to 2013, Mr. Hoge served Prior to that, from 1981 to 2001, he 10 served as Curator of the ANA, or, as we know, 11 the American Numismatic Association. 12 directed the ANA's money museum in Colorado 13 Springs, and also served as manager of its 14 authentication bureau, and was a regular 15 columnist and contributing director for the 16 ANA's official publication, The Numismatists. 17 Mr. Hoge For 20 years, that is 20 years, he taught 18 at the ANA's summer seminar and prepared 19 numerous seminars from museological 20 organizations. 21 knowledge to the CCAC during his eight years on 22 the committee, providing his thoughtful and 23 insightful knowledge to the numerous portfolios 24 that came in front of our committee. 25 designs Mr. Hoge reviewed were the Native Mr. Hoge brought his extensive www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Among the Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 14 1 American $1 coin, the American the Beautiful 2 Quarter program, bullion designs for Liberty 3 and several Congressional Gold medals, 4 including the series of Code Talkers medals. 5 Mr. Hoge's final meeting as a CCAC member was 6 in June 23rd of 2020. 7 only now are we able to formally, and properly 8 thank him for his service on the CCAC, and to 9 present him with the Citizens Coinage Advisory 10 But due to the pandemic Committee Public Service Award. 11 The CCAC Public Service Award recognizes 12 the contributions of a member of the CCAC, who 13 has honorably served the public interests by 14 advising the Secretary of Treasury on themes 15 and design proposals relating to circulating 16 coinage, bullion coinage, Congressional Gold 17 Medals and national and other medals produced 18 by the United States Mint. 19 let me repeat this, the Public Service Award -- 20 contains a framed certificate and two bronze 21 medals; a three-inch Alexander Hamilton 22 Secretary's medal, and a three-inch bronze 23 duplicate of a medal reviewed by the CCAC, 24 typically, during the tenure of the recipient. 25 Mr. The award -- and Hoge requested the three-inch David Ryder www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 15 1 bronze medal, as a pleasant reminder of his 2 term in CCAC, and of the Mint personnel whom he 3 got to know during his tenure. 4 pleased to present the CCAC Public Service 5 Award to Mr. 6 consistently provided, inspired and thoughtful 7 input, and you know what, what an 8 accomplishment, thoughtful input, because that 9 is so important in this day and time to the Robert Hoge. Today, I am Mr. Hoge, you have 10 development of numerous United States coins, 11 and medals, and is highly regarded by your 12 colleagues, and you're respected for your 13 opinion and your insight. 14 thank you. 15 For this, we say Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in 16 thanking and congratulating Robert Hoge for his 17 service to the Citizens Coinage Advisory 18 Committee. 19 say a few words, sir. 20 Robert, the microphone is yours to MR. HOGE: Thank you so much, Director 21 Gibson. It has been an extraordinary pleasure 22 and honor for me to participate with the many 23 wonderful people I have had the opportunity to 24 get to know as a part of my service. 25 been an extraordinary experience, and I'm fully www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It has Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 16 1 thrilled (to have) the privilege to have be a 2 part of this procedure, which is an important 3 part of our nation's history and participation 4 of the entire population of our country, and 5 the use and understanding of our coins and 6 medals honoring our past history. 7 an important event for me to be here today, and 8 I feel very humbled and very honored to be 9 recognized in this lovely fashion. 10 11 so much. It's really Thank you Ah, there it is. DR. BROWN: Robert, on behalf of the CACC, 12 the U.S. Mint, the Department of Treasury, we 13 are thankful for the opportunity to present 14 this to you, to let you know that while some of 15 us are here for whose term overlapped with 16 yours, there are few of us who, in fact, did 17 not have that pleasure. 18 have the esteemed honor of continuing to hear 19 from you, prior to the CCAC of you joining and 20 subsequent to that. 21 look forward to hearing more from you because 22 even though you have left the CCAC, the CCAC 23 has not left your heart. 24 MR. HOGE: 25 DR. BROWN: But nonetheless, we So, we are pleased, and we That's true. So, thank you so much. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 17 1 Another round of applause for Mr. Hoge. 2 MS. WARREN: Okay, we're going to just 3 take like a three-minute break, because we have 4 to move the computers and stuff. 5 with us, everybody. So just bear Thank you, Director. 6 (Thereupon, a break was taken, 7 and the proceeding continued as 8 follows:) 9 10 MS. WARREN: Okay, we're going to go ahead and start. 11 DR. BROWN: Thank you for your patience. 12 The next item on the agenda is the review and 13 approval of the minutes and the letters to the 14 Secretary from the public meeting on June 14, 15 2022. 16 members of the CCAC? 17 motion to approve the minutes and letters? Are there any comments from any of the 18 MR. BERNSTEIN: 19 DR. BROWN: 20 MS. LANNIN: 21 DR. BROWN: 22 Art Bernstein so moves. Is there a second? Mary Lannin, second. Hearing that, all those in favor signify saying aye. 23 (Aye) 24 25 Hearing none, is there a DR. BROWN: you. Those not in favor? My apologies. Thank I'll make sure to pause a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 18 1 second, for our colleagues that are 2 participating virtually. 3 objections to the motion? 4 objection, the minutes and letters are 5 approved. 6 Are there any If not, without Now, we, in fact, are returning to the 7 main course of the meeting and turning over to 8 now April Stafford, Chief of the Mint Office of 9 Design Management, who will present the obverse 10 and reverse candidate designs for the 11 Congressional Gold Medal to Greg LeMond. 12 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. It is Public 13 Law 116-208, the Greg LeMond Congressional Gold 14 Medal Act that awards the Congressional Gold 15 Medal to Greg LeMond in recognition of his 16 service to the nation as an athlete, activist, 17 role model and community leader. 18 LeMond began cycling at the age of 14. 19 home a full suite of medals at the 1979 Junior 20 World Championships, and at age 18 became the 21 youngest cyclist in the history of the sport to 22 be selected for the U.S. Olympic team. 23 Tour de France, the world's preeminent cycling 24 competition takes place over 23 days, covering 25 an extraordinary 2200 miles, winding through www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Gregory, Greg He took The Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 19 1 multiple mountain ranges, and spanning multiple 2 nations. 3 France in 1984, finishing third and the 4 following year second. 5 deputized himself to his teammates, sacrificing 6 a chance to win for himself, to boost his 7 teammates towards victory. 8 victorious in the 1986 Tour de France after 9 ascending the fabled Alpha Dreads, ahead of the 10 field by more than three full minutes, becoming 11 the first American and the first non-European 12 to win cycling's most prestigious race. 13 LeMond mounted the greatest comeback in the 14 history of American sports, winning the 1989 15 Tour de France following multiple surgeries, 16 life threatening wounds, tendon repair, and an 17 appendectomy. 18 Tour de France in 1990. 19 professional career, having won two world 20 championships, three Tour de France 21 championships, and 22 titles overall. 22 than any other cyclist, LeMond personifies the 23 breakaway culture of American cycling in the 24 1970s and eighties, attempting to accomplish 25 feats no other American had up until that time. LeMond first competed in the Tour de In both years, he LeMond emerged Later, LeMond went on to win a third LeMond completed his www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 More Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 20 1 LeMond has not only reached the pinnacle of 2 international sport, but also has devoted his 3 time and resources to assisting his fellow 4 athletes. 5 commitment to excellence, generosity, 6 community, and tenacity that makes him an 7 example for all to follow; a commitment and 8 tenacity exemplified by his personal guiding 9 principle, "Don't ever give up. LeMond has demonstrated the 10 easier. 11 inscriptions across the obverse designs you'll 12 be reviewing today include Greg LeMond, Tour de 13 France, 1986, 1989 and 1990, which were the 14 year of his Tour de France victories. 15 the reverse, you'll see act of Congress 2022 16 and 1979, 1983 and 1989, the years of his world 17 championship victories. And I believe earlier 18 I said that he had two. So, it is three and 19 those years are 79, 83 and 89. 20 reverse are the inscriptions, World Champion 21 and his again personal motto, "Don't ever give 22 up. 23 faster." 24 25 You just get faster." It doesn't get It doesn't get easier. Common And on Also on the You just get So, for this Congressional Gold Medal, Greg LeMond had a specific vision, and it is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 21 1 reflected in his identified preferences of 2 obverse eleven and reverse five. 3 show them to you here. 4 and reverse five. 5 And we will That's obverse eleven Now, our liaison to Mr. LeMond, Crozer 6 Conner, who is the senior legislative assistant 7 to representative Mike Thompson, is with us to 8 answer any questions that the committee might 9 have. Mr. Connor, I believe you're with us. 10 Do you have anything you'd like to share with 11 the committee before we review the candidate 12 designs? 13 MR. CONNOR: I don't think so. I would 14 just say thank you all for your good work. 15 April, and Boneza and Jennifer have all been 16 great. 17 important to my boss, not only as a cyclist, 18 but also as a veteran and a champion for mental 19 health. 20 charitable work in the years since his career 21 came to an end. 22 You know, this is a cause that was very Greg has done a lot of tremendous I also think it was important to note, and 23 this is not, you know, inherent in the medal, 24 but, you know, Greg was kind of one of the 25 first athletes to stand up against cheating in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 22 1 this sport, and he was really kind of 2 railroaded for that, and like, you know, wanted 3 to find a way to correct the record. 4 happy to answer any questions. 5 all very much for your work on this, and I look 6 forward to getting this done. 7 MS. STAFFORD: So, I'm But thank you Thank you so much. 8 should also note that obverse eleven and 9 reverse five. So, I In addition to being Mr. 10 LeMond's preferences, they are also the U.S. 11 Commission of Fine Arts recommendations. 12 we will go through the portfolio candidate 13 design, starting with obverse designs. 14 start with obverse three. 15 waving the American flag while riding past the 16 Arc de Triomphe, with the years of his Tour de 17 France victories emblazoned on the pavement 18 before him. 19 Arc de Triomphe in the background, a 20 representation of the American flag is set in 21 the background, and angled to emphasize 22 LeMond's amazing speed. 23 portrait of the LeMond with the Arc de Triomphe 24 in the background, along with an image of him 25 in action on his bicycle. So, We'll This depicts LeMond Obverse four shows LeMond with the Obverse five is a Obverse six depicts www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 23 1 the American flag projecting outward from the 2 Arc de Triomphe, as LeMond banks to make a 3 turn. 4 reinforcing the motion of the design. 5 nine depicts LeMond in action, wearing race 6 number one, awarded to the winner of the 7 previous year's Tour de France. 8 the years LeMond won with that year's winning 9 time in brackets and incused diamonds, The inscriptions are on a tilt, Obverse Also shown are 10 representing the number of stages he won in 11 that year's race. 12 map of France in the background. 13 obverse 11, which again is Greg LeMond's 14 preferred obverse design, and the 15 recommendation of the CFA. 16 Greg LeMond in action, riding past the Arc de 17 Triomphe with the years of his Tour de France 18 victories inscribed. 19 The design also features a And finally, This design depicts Moving on to the reverse designs. Again, 20 that is the preference of Mr. LeMond and the 21 CFA's recommendation. 22 are as follows: 23 with the inscription, "Don't ever give up." 24 LeMond races the uphill sweep of the 25 inscription, bridging the gap between North The candidate designs Reverse one depicts a globe www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 24 1 America and Europe. Reverse two is a 2 representation of the world superimposed over a 3 bicycle sprocket, and LeMonds quote, "Don't 4 ever give up. 5 get faster." featured in the center. 6 three is a depiction of LeMond superimposed 7 over the globe, writing above his quote with 8 his signature beneath. 9 the most preferred reverse, and the It doesn't get easier. You just Reverse Reverse five again read 10 recommendation of the CFA. This design is a 11 textured globe to offset is from the field, 12 while gently alluding to road asphalt, the 13 service, the surface LeMond competed on. 14 Bicycle chains and the inscription World 15 Champion are inscribed on the outer border. 16 Also, this design includes a shortened version 17 of LeMonds quote, "It doesn't get easier. 18 just get faster." 19 depicts a bicycle free wheel with a chain, the 20 inscriptions along the border and the incused 21 inscription "World Champion" center. 22 finally, reverse eight features, chain, rings, 23 and a crank with a globe on the center. 24 inscription, "World Champion" is along the 25 crank arm. You Moving on, reverse six www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And The Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 25 1 2 Chairman, that concludes the candidate designs. 3 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Are there 4 any technical or legal questions from the 5 committee about this program, or these designs 6 for the great Greg LeMond Congressional Gold 7 Medal before we began our general discussion? 8 9 10 MR. SCARINCI: ask the stakeholder a question at this point or wait? 11 DR. BROWN: 12 MR. SCARINCI: 13 14 15 16 Would it be appropriate to I think that makes sense. Can I -- I just have one question for the stakeholders. DR. BROWN: Donald, my apologies. I should have, in fact, that's Donald Scarinci. MR. SCARINCI: Oh, I'm sorry. Donald 17 Scarinci. 18 design preference, was it like resounding or 19 were you close to considering one of the other 20 designs, particularly in the reverse? 21 Was this, you know, your choice of MS. STAFFORD: So, I believe that question 22 is aimed at you, Mr. Connor. Crozer Conner is, 23 again, our liaison to Mr. 24 with us throughout the development. 25 Connor, did you hear the question, or should we LeMond, and has been www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Mr. Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 26 1 repeat it real quick? 2 MR. CONNOR: 3 quick? 4 Could you repeat it real I only got pieces of it. MR. SCARINCI: Sure. I just -- I was just 5 wondering, I was just curious if the decision 6 for the preference, for your preference was a 7 resounding decision, or if you had, if it was 8 between, if it was close between one of the 9 other designs, particularly on the reverse. 10 MR. CONNOR: Sure, I would say that Greg 11 is a man of few words. 12 concise in his preference. 13 was very clear about the obverse, and, you 14 know, he really just selected the reverse and 15 told me that, you know, why he liked it. 16 don't want to put words in his mouth. 17 that he didn't like any of the other proposals. 18 I just, I know that that's the one that he 19 thought was best, and he was pretty clear about 20 that. 21 MR. SCARINCI: 22 DR. BROWN: And so, he was pretty I mean, he was, he I It's not Thank you. Any other questions from the 23 CCAC? And let me also, in fact, for the 24 record, share the fact that when Mr. Connor 25 mentioned about Mr. LeMond's, in fact, effort www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 27 1 to reduce cheating in sports, I happened to 2 actually be one of the members of the United 3 States Anti-Doping Agency that came into 4 existence because of Mr. LeMond advocacy, that 5 actually, in fact, was responsible for testing 6 American athletes, whether they were competing 7 abroad or competing in the United States and 8 Olympic type of events. 9 salute him for his efforts there because I had 10 another role there that was more minor, but as 11 a result of his advocacy. 12 So, again, I certainly Let us then begin our discussion. I would 13 like to remind members to try to keep our 14 comments to five minutes or less, and to 15 identify, each and every time, ourselves. 16 We'll be keeping track of time, and that 17 typically means you know Jennifer is helping 18 me, so, you know Jennifer. 19 keeps us on track here. 20 members have any questions or comments on any 21 program, please refrain from asking at this 22 point, or discussing that until you are 23 recognized, or at the end of the discussion of 24 this program when I will ask if you have 25 additional comments. She's the one that Additionally, if any www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 28 1 For the benefit of the court reporter and 2 those calling in, I ask that you speak loudly 3 and clearly due to the microphones, and to 4 again to state your name before you begin 5 speaking. 6 minutes. 7 Dean? 8 9 As a reminder, again, you have five So, let's start with Dean Kotlowski, MR. KOTLOWSKI: Chairman. Thank you very much, Mr. I'm not sure Robert Hoge is still 10 there, but I just wanted to say if you are 11 Robert, your insight and your experience really 12 did set an example for a lot of us who joined 13 the committee in the years you were on it, and 14 your warmth, sensitivity, and sense of humor, I 15 think it made a lot of us, and me in 16 particular, feel very comfortable serving on 17 the CCAC, and I want to thank you for your 18 service, and say you truly are in our hearts, 19 and congratulate you on this really important 20 day. 21 I think there are a lot of really 22 excellent designs here, and with respect to the 23 obverse, I want to applaud Mr. 24 picking what I think is the best design. 25 very striking. LeMond for It's very dramatic. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It's I love the Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 29 1 way it has the Arc de Triomphe, the American 2 flag, Mr. LeMond, the cyclist, and the way the 3 dates are composed going into the background. 4 So, I think that's very, very striking, and I 5 really love the design and I hope it will get 6 some attention in France. 7 of some important iconic symbols of the two 8 countries. 9 lot of very, very good designs. It's a nice melding With the reverse again, there is a I don't know 10 where to begin. I have an inclination just to 11 simply go with what Mr. 12 see why number five is very important to him, 13 because the quotation is key, I would imagine, 14 for him, and it is a nice representation of the 15 globe; bike chain is very nice. 16 though struck me as just a little faint and 17 maybe a little undramatic. 18 other designs that I would just point to that I 19 think are interesting, creative, original, 20 striking. 21 like the bike chain and how the world, the 22 globe was at the center here, and the way the 23 dates are written, and "World Champion" just 24 stands out for me. 25 words there, very bold, very dramatic. LeMond wants. I can The design And there are some Number eight really struck me. I It's, you know, the incused www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Number Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 30 1 six is a little bit on the same theme, maybe 2 just a bit less dramatic, but worth noting as 3 well. 4 over when I first looked at the portfolio, but 5 number, just want to point to this, this is -- 6 I never use this word when I'm discussing 7 designs, but this is a kind of cute design, I 8 think. 9 together with the cyclists and, you know, you And I was looking again, I passed it The way it ties the Atlantic world 10 have the globe and you have the "Don't ever 11 give up.", and a bit of cuteness, and this is 12 where, Mr. Chairman, I'm going to close my 13 comments. 14 and it reminded me of E.T. 15 was the effect that they were going for, but 16 it's a good example, maybe just of how a design 17 can be intended one way and received another 18 way. 19 looking forward to listening to what my 20 colleagues have to say. 21 Mr. Chairman. Number three is worth pointing out, So, those are my comments, and I'm 22 DR. BROWN: 23 thoughtful comments. 24 Bernstein. 25 I'm not sure that Thank you very much, Thank you so much for your MR. BERNSTEIN: Let's turn now to Arthur Good morning. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 This is Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 31 1 Arthur Bernstein. I'd like to speak in favor 2 of the obverse and reverse that was selected by 3 Mr. LeMond. 4 the architectural feature of the Arc de 5 Triomphe. 6 border I think is very attractive. 7 as a cyclist, I can verify that it does get 8 easier, but I'm not sure it's true that I get 9 any faster. With obverse 11, I also appreciate On reverse five, the bike chain I will say But I appreciate having the 10 quotation on the medal. 11 criticism of obverse nine. 12 father, I don't like to see a cyclist not 13 wearing a helmet. 14 favor of the selections that were chosen. 15 Thank you. 16 17 18 DR. BROWN: I had one minor I guess as a Other than that, I'm in Thank you. Let's return to Mary Lannin. MS. LANNIN: Okay. I'm going to be the 19 outlier here. I understand why Mr. LeMond 20 liked number 11. 21 is the position of the flag. 22 where else you can put it, but it looks like 23 it's attached to the bicycle. 24 that just bugged me. 25 rather than number eleven, because I think it What bothers me on that one I don't know I don't know, I preferred number six www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 32 1 shows the same speed. I like the swirling of 2 the stars and stripes, and I thought that the 3 years that he won the Tour de France were very 4 bold. 5 six over number 11 in terms of obverse. 6 then getting to reverse, again, I'm an outlier. 7 I did like number three, Jean. 8 The thing that I liked about it, is that it's 9 something with his signature, and I think that So, my preference would be the number And So, thank you. 10 that, you know, if you're going to be a young 11 kid and a biker, I'm a former Sonoma County 12 resident, so we saw bikes all over because Greg 13 sponsored lots of things at Sonoma County. 14 would be a hero, and so you try to collect 15 things of your heroes, and so here you've got 16 an autograph, you've got him in profile 17 whizzing across the globe, and then down at the 18 bottom you've got the years, very clearly, that 19 he was the world champion, and I think that 20 that stands out. 21 number five, I understand he's a man of few 22 words, but these are too few for me. 23 it's -- I think it's too self-effacing. 24 an incredible champion, and this reverse is 25 just kind of fading away from me. He Now, as to his selection www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I think So, my He's Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 33 1 favorite for the reverse is number three, and 2 for the obverse is number six. 3 4 DR. BROWN: Thank you. Thank you. Let's turn to Peter. 5 MR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 6 This is Peter Van Alfen. 7 myself, and a huge fan of Greg LeMond, 8 particularly for his anti-doping efforts, I 9 have to say I'm really thrilled to participate 10 in the selections of the designs for this, and 11 I also want to point out that there is a 12 website called Velominati, the Keepers of the 13 COG, and on that website there are 95 rules, 14 most of which are somewhat tongue-in-cheek. 15 But rule number ten, is it doesn't get easier, 16 you just get faster. 17 I cycle with, rule number ten is something of a 18 mantra for us, so something we invoke all the 19 time. 20 itself. 21 LeMond's selections of obverse eleven and 22 reverse three. 23 reverse six I find particularly attractive, 24 both because I'm somewhat of a cycling gear 25 head, but I also just think that this is a very As an avid cyclist For myself and those that I'm very happy to see this on the medal So, I'm more than happy to support Mr. I also want to point out that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 34 1 attractive design, with the free wheeler that 2 are (unintelligible) here. 3 happy to wrap up my comments. 4 much. 5 6 7 DR. BROWN: Thank you. So, with that, I'm Thank you very We turn now to Donald. MR. SCARINCI: Donald Scarinci. Um, you 8 know, since there is not a close second choice, 9 I always, I always, as we all know, I always 10 support the gold medalist's selection when it 11 comes to congressional gold medals. 12 don't need to belabor it. 13 to give a lot of merit to the portfolio as a 14 whole, and I particularly, if it were my pick, 15 I particularly like obverse number six. 16 think the -- I think that's a, that's a medal 17 in motion. I love the motion. 18 curvature. You feel like you're riding and, 19 you know, so the artist who designed this 20 really did a particularly outstanding job. 21 in the reverse, I think it was reverse number 22 eight that caught my attention, as being 23 particularly creative as well as reverse number 24 six, and, you know, I, too, like those other 25 artists who designed those should be commended So, I I simply do not want I I love the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 35 1 in as well. 2 voting for the stakeholder's selection. 3 4 So, with that said. DR. BROWN: Thank you. I'll be Next is Michael Moran. 5 MR. MORAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 6 Mike Moran. 7 stakeholder's selections here. This is I too will concur with the 8 DR. BROWN: A little louder. 9 MR. MORAN: I too would concur with the 10 stakeholder's selections here out of respect 11 for his choice. 12 the artist that -- I'm with Donald -- that 13 created obverse six, it's an excellent piece of 14 work. 15 reverse three and reverse eight. 16 go for number eleven and number five. 17 you. 18 19 20 At the same time, I think that I also particularly like obverse -- DR. BROWN: Thank you. My votes will Thank Turn now to Sam Gill. MR. GILL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This 21 is Sam Gill. I'm going to echo Mike and Don's 22 comments that I'm going to support the 23 stakeholder here for sure. 24 Donald that it's always good form to do that, 25 particularly with the Congressional Gold Medal. I agree that with www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 36 1 I would like to just draw attention to one 2 obverse that I particularly think is a 3 beautiful coin, and that it obverse three. 4 don't think it would work particularly well, 5 because it's very busy, but it's just really 6 pretty art to me. 7 reverse, either six or eight were just very 8 interesting to me and I like them, but I 9 certainly respect the choices that the And then finally on the 10 stakeholder made, and that would be obverse 11 eleven and reverse five. 12 Chairman. 13 14 DR. BROWN: I Thank you, Mr. Thank you so much. Next is Doctor -- 15 MS. WARREN: One second. This is Jennifer 16 Warren. 17 up, it's still hard sometimes for the court 18 reporter here on his microphone. 19 especially those in the back of the room, if 20 you could just make sure you project and speak 21 up each time. 22 Please, members, if you could speak Thank you. DR. BROWN: Just as a helpful, let's use 23 our outdoor voice a little bit. 24 out. 25 So, That may help Dr. Fuller? DR. FULLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 37 1 Thank you to the committee again. I will be 2 voting for the stakeholders choices. 3 please allow me to make a couple of comments on 4 the -- the obverse. 5 three. 6 with the American flag. 7 be the only one that really shows that, you 8 know, he's won and that he's, you know, doing 9 it for America. However, I really like obverse I like the fact that he's celebrating I think that seems to I also like obverse five, 10 because I think we get, we get several things 11 here. 12 not be familiar with Greg LeMond, you see his 13 face, his profile. 14 get to see what he looks like, and then, of 15 course, you see him on a bike, the years that 16 he won and things of that nature. 17 obverse six is also great because it shows him 18 in motion, it shows his speed, and so I will be 19 giving high marks to that one as well. 20 respect to the reverse, I really like two of 21 them. 22 just love "Don't ever give up." 23 it's, you know, I think it's a wonderful 24 message for people in general who might be 25 facing challenges and they need some For those -- for those people who may So, you get, you know, you I think With The first one, reverse number one. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I I think that Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 38 1 inspiration. 2 I particularly like a reverse six. 3 it, the first time I saw it, it just jumped out 4 at me more so than any other design. 5 like those, but again, I will defer to the, to 6 the choices of the stakeholders. 7 8 So, I really like that one. DR. BROWN: Thank you. And Just seeing So, I Thank you. Next is Robin Salmon. 9 MS. SALMON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. This 10 is Robin Salmon, and I -- I do like obverse 11, 11 the honoree's choice, but I also really like 12 obverse six. 13 but the speed implied in this particular design 14 is beautiful, and I think it has all of the 15 elements that the other design, obverse eleven, 16 has, but just put together in a more lyrical 17 way. 18 understand why he would prefer this one. 19 However, reverse three has the entire quote, 20 that I always think it's important to be 21 complete as much as possible. 22 addition of his signature, it includes the 23 world and everything that's necessary in the 24 reverse design. 25 the rider. The motion, not just movement, Reverse five is a very nice design, and I It also has the I like also the silhouette of And this seems to sum up for me www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 39 1 more of the significance of who this man was, 2 and -- or is, and what he did. 3 choices. 4 designs in this portfolio and I commend the 5 artists. 6 7 8 9 So those are my There -- there are many lovely Thank you. DR. BROWN: Thank you. Let's turn now to Mr. Dennis Tucker. MR. TUCKER: is Dennis Tucker. Thank you, Mr. Chair. This Donald, I want to kind of 10 follow up on something that you said, and that 11 Harcourt and Sam concurred with -- 12 DR. BROWN: 13 MR. TUCKER: Dennis. Yes, thank you. I would 14 remind the committee that congressional gold 15 medals have a history that goes back to the 16 Revolutionary War, and I think it's well within 17 our purview to analyze them from that 18 perspective. 19 personal medals, but they are national medals 20 with a -- of a personal nature. 21 LeMond's preferences, but as I said, I think as 22 a, as an advisory committee, we're within our 23 rights to look at these designs and offer our 24 expertise and insight, and I agree that obverse 25 six is much more dynamic design than obverse Congressional gold medals are not www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I respect Mr. Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 40 1 eleven. It's -- every design element in 2 obverse six speaks to motion and energy. 3 Arc de Triomphe is at a three-quarter profile, 4 if you will, rather than just a flat facing 5 view. 6 captures speed I think in a way that number 7 eleven does not as, as Robin pointed out. 8 Mary, I had your same concern about the 9 American flag. The Even the typography is in motion, and it I think the placement is 10 unusual in number eleven. 11 that struck me. 12 triumphant in obverse three, as Dr. Fuller 13 pointed out. 14 most dynamic, energetic, motion oriented and an 15 appropriate design, and that's the one that I 16 will endorse. 17 That's something I love the way the flag is But for me obverse six is, is the DR. BROWN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. This is Lawrence 18 Brown, and I want to say, first and foremost, I 19 would like to commend the artists because all 20 the designs in this portfolio are fantastic. 21 also want to applaud the comments and the 22 merits expressed by my fellow members of the 23 CCAC. 24 towards designs that are sufficiently 25 explanatory and relevant, clearly have To me, I generally express and lean www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 41 1 historical significance, and that will spur 2 interest. 3 public, that while we're talking about a gold 4 medal, there's an opportunity for U.S. Mint to 5 actually make bronze replicas. 6 it does make sense that we take into 7 consideration, if we're going to increase the 8 appetite of the public, that it should be 9 something that they will embrace as well. 10 the same time, I lean in the direction of 11 supporting the fav -- those favored by the -- 12 by Mr. LeMond. 13 direction. 14 that the comments made by the members of the 15 CCAC are phenomenal. 16 to ask if there are any other additional 17 comments or motions from the members at this 18 time? 19 And as many may not know in the In that sense, At So, I'm going to vote in that But I do, nonetheless, underscore MR. MENNA: Now, I want to turn to, I apologize for interrupting. 20 I don't know if I'm allowed to speak right now, 21 but can I just make one quick comment about the 22 obverse that Greg selected? 23 24 25 DR. BROWN: Certainly, and you are always welcome to speak. MR. MENNA: So, as far as the comments www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 42 1 about the flag, I just, you know, I understand 2 that this may not be clear to members of the 3 public, but I think someone pointed out that it 4 looks like the flag is attached to the bike, 5 and that is because it is attached to the bike. 6 This is from a picture that Greg selected, and 7 it shows him at the end of the race. 8 already won the Tour de France, he's -- like I 9 believe the race ends at the Arc de Triomphe. He has 10 And so, the idea was he had crossed the finish 11 line, and he had planted an American flag on 12 the back of his bike, and that's where the 13 image came from. 14 reiterate that I don't think, my sense is that 15 Greg was not, my sense is that he felt more 16 strongly about the obverse than the reverse. 17 I'll leave it at that. 18 liked the obverse design that we presented, and 19 he simply selected the reverse one. 20 21 22 DR. BROWN: And I just -- I would I think he very much Thank you. Thanks. Let's go to Donald. MR. SCARINCI: Let's go to Donald. Your 23 definitive decision to embrace the one that -- 24 that you selected saved you, and spared you 25 from my passion in support of what Dennis, you www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 43 1 know, what Dennis feels about obverse six. And 2 you know, I just want you, and, you know, that 3 obverse six is very a artistic, you know, very, 4 you know, would make a very compelling medal, 5 and I just had to say that because Dennis is 6 right, we are an advisory committee to advise 7 on design, and we can't let it pass without 8 telling you. 9 you know, I fully support the, you know, your And with that said, I supported, 10 choice because it's a Congressional Gold Medal. 11 If this were a coin, this would be a much more 12 heated debate. 13 DR. BROWN: Joe Menna? 14 MR. MENNA: This Joe Menna. Not to 15 editorialize, but regardless of Mr. LeMond's 16 selection, I support every design in this 17 portfolio fully. 18 see the flag shown in victory, than somebody 19 riding on top of the flag, on the flag. 20 think that that could give -- that's an odd 21 symbolism to have Mr. LeMond actually riding on 22 the flag, despite the fact that it's a 23 wonderful design. 24 I can assure you that the way number eleven 25 would be sculpted, the concerns of it looking But personally, I'd rather I My comment was going to be, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 44 1 as if it's one contiguous mass would be 2 alleviated by the way it would be layered and 3 stacked, and it would look exactly the way Mr. 4 LeMond wants it to look. 5 about the flag thing, but you know, we'll talk 6 about that later. 7 DR. BROWN: Sorry to editorialize Thank you so much, Joe. Thank 8 you so much. 9 any additional comments you would like to offer 10 Joe, do you and Mike or Mike have at this time? 11 MR. MORAN: No. 12 DR. BROWN: Are there any additional 13 comments or clarification by April, Boneza, or 14 Mr. Connor? 15 you, Mr. Connor. 16 participated in this conversation. 17 them, the committee will now score the obverse 18 and reverse candidate designs for the 19 Congressional Gold Medal to Greg LeMond. 20 They're not. I'm going to thank Thank everyone who Hearing Each of you have in front of you a score 21 sheet, if you're here in person. 22 those who are participating virtually, you 23 should have received that from Jennifer. 24 25 Dean and CCAC general counsel, Greg Weinman will tally the scoresheet, and will present the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 45 1 results in a few minutes. 2 five-minute break for the scoring and tallying 3 of the score. 4 MS. WARREN: 5 DR. BROWN: 6 ten. We will take a Let's make it ten. We're going to move that to We're a generous committee. 7 (Thereupon, a break was taken, 8 and the proceeding continued as 9 follows:) 10 DR. BROWN: We are back. I recognize Greg 11 Weinman, counsel to the CCAC, to present the 12 results from the scoring sheets. 13 MR. WEINMAN: The scoring being completed, 14 obverse number three received nine points. 15 Obverse number four received four points. 16 Obverse number five received five points. 17 Obverse number six received twenty-one points. 18 Obverse number nine received three points. 19 obverse eleven received twenty-seven out of 33 20 possible points. 21 the obverse. 22 twenty-seven points. 23 Reverses. And That is the high scorer for It's obverse eleven with Reverse one received seven 24 points. Reverse two received four points. 25 Reverse three received nine points. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Reverse Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 46 1 five received twenty-seven out of thirty-three 2 points, that is the high scorer for reverse is 3 reverse five. 4 reverse eight received fourteen points. 5 Reverse six received ten. DR. BROWN: Thank you, Greg. And Are there 6 any motions? Hearing none, I'm assuming then 7 that the committee is, in fact, supporting the 8 votes as been tallied too. 9 further debate? Is there any If -- since all discussion has 10 been concluded, I will call the question, all 11 those in favor of what you heard, aye? 12 13 (Aye) DR. BROWN: Those opposed? It appears 14 that the motion has passed. Are there any 15 further motions? 16 all discussion has concluded, then we'll move 17 to the next order of business, but we want to 18 thank Mr. Connor for having joined us today. 19 want to thank Ms. Hanchock for her contribution 20 and Mr. Hearing or seeing none, if I Evans as well. 21 MR. CONNOR: 22 DR. BROWN: Thank you all very much. Now April will present the 23 reverse candidate designs for the 2024 American 24 Innovation $1-coin, honoring innovations in the 25 State of Maine. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 47 1 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you so much. And 2 first, just a little bit of general information 3 about the program. 4 the American Innovation Dollar Coin Act that 5 requires the Secretary of the Treasury to mint 6 and issue dollar coins, with a reverse design 7 honoring innovation or innovators from each 8 state in the union, as well as the territories 9 and the District of Columbia. It is Public Law 115-197, In accordance 10 with the Act, the United States Mint worked 11 with the governors of the states being honored 12 in 2024, to develop design concepts or themes 13 for the coins. 14 approved those concepts. 15 The Secretary of the Treasury Candidate designs for the first two states 16 to be honored in 2024, specifically, Illinois 17 and Alabama, were presented to you in June of 18 2022, and the final two states for Maine and 19 Missouri for 2024 are presented here now. 20 worked with liaisons and experts from each 21 state in developing the following candidate 22 designs. 23 will remain the same as in previous years, and 24 will contain a unique gear shaped privy mark to 25 distinguish the date, or the set for this, for We The obverse design for this program www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 48 1 the 2024 annual issuances. 2 have the theme to honor the innovator, Dr. 3 Bernard Lown. 4 So, for Maine, we So, a little bit of background about Dr. 5 Lown. Lithuanian American cardiologist, Dr. 6 Bernard Lown, was a pioneer in public health, a 7 graduate of Lewiston High School and the 8 University of Maine, Dr. Lown immigrated from 9 Lithuania to Maine at the age of 14 to escape 10 Nazi persecution. In 1962, Dr. Lown, a leader 11 in cardiac research in cooperation with 12 engineer Baruch Berkowitz, developed the 13 defibrillator, a new method for correcting 14 dangerously abnormal heart rhythms called 15 fibrillations. 16 believed to be responsible for 40% of the half 17 million fatal heart attacks in the United 18 States every year. 19 lifesaving technique worldwide, and helped make 20 open heart surgery possible. 21 new era of cardiac resuscitation techniques and 22 technological developments, including modern 23 pacemakers and defibrillators implanted in the 24 chest of heart patients that automatically 25 detect and correct abnormal rhythms. Fibrillations at the time were This breakthrough became a It ushered in a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 While the Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 49 1 portfolio you'll see does focus on honoring Dr. 2 Lown, and depicts his role as co-creator of the 3 direct current defibrillator, as an innovator, 4 Dr. Lown's career went far beyond this 5 important medical device. 6 edge approach approaches to public health, drug 7 treatment, coronary care units, and the impact 8 of stress on cardiovascular health. 9 was also active in anti-nuclear proliferation It included cutting Dr. Lown 10 advocacy, and in 1985 accepted the Nobel Peace 11 Prize as a founding member on behalf of the 12 International Physicians for the Prevention of 13 Nuclear War. 14 I should note that several designs in this 15 portfolio, if recommended to the Secretary, 16 will need to be adjusted to accommodate a 17 legislative requirement, that there be no head 18 and shoulders depiction of any person. 19 speak to those designs as we move through the 20 portfolio for review, and we have our chief 21 engraver and our legal counsel with us, if you 22 have any specific questions relating to that. 23 Also, the Governor's Office of Maine identified 24 design one as a preference. 25 recommendation of the CFA. I will It is also the Representatives www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 50 1 from the Lown family expressed an appreciation 2 for design eight. 3 governor's office had an unexpected conflict, 4 but his deputy, the main deputy treasurer, Greg 5 Olsen, should be with us today to answer any 6 questions you may have. 7 to have a family representative, Anne Lown, 8 with us today also, and it's my understanding 9 that Ms. Lown would like to say a few words. Our liaison with the main We are fortunate also 10 So if it's okay with Mr. Olsen, I'll defer to 11 Ms. Lown first, if that's okay, Mr. Chair, yes? 12 DR. BROWN: 13 MS. STAFFORD: 14 That is okay. Ms. Lown, would you like to say a few words? 15 MS. LOWN: Yes. 16 MS. STAFFORD: 17 MS. LOWN: Hello. Hello. Okay. Thank you to Dr. Brown 18 and members of the Committee for the 19 opportunity to introduce you to my father, Dr. 20 Bernard Lown, who died in 2021 at the age of 21 99. 22 children and grandchildren. 23 I am speaking as a representative of his To say that he had a long fulfilling life 24 is to say the very least. As you heard, he 25 came to the U.S. at age 14, a refugee from www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 51 1 Lithuania escaping anti-Semitism. Many family 2 members left behind were murdered in the second 3 world war, and this profoundly shaped my dad 4 and his concern for social justice and world 5 peace. 6 speaking no English. 7 language. 8 honors program at the University of Maine. 9 graduated summa cum laude. At 14, he arrived in Lewiston, Maine Yiddish was his only And at 17, he was admitted to the He My dad always stood 10 up for social justice, even when at personal 11 risk. 12 school where there was a quota for Jews and 13 women and non-African American students. 14 there, he worked at the Hopkins Blood Bank, 15 where he discovered that black and white blood 16 was segregated. 17 racist system, but found a way to undermine and 18 relabeling the blood. 19 suspended from medical school and a group of 20 friends protested his suspension. 21 to be reinstated to medical school, but fired 22 from the blood bank. 23 a cardiologist and a research scientist. 24 was always committed to the use of science and 25 technology to serve humanity. He attended Johns Hopkins, a medical While My dad refused to honor the When discovered, he was He was able My dad went on to become In spite of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 He Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 52 1 being a technology pioneer, he was always in 2 search of the least invasive treatment to 3 improve patient outcomes. 4 sudden cardiac death, which was causing 5 fatalities throughout the world. 6 he was studying how stress and intense emotions 7 can affect one's health and even lead to death, 8 and as has been stated, this lead in 1962 to 9 the invention of the defibrillator. He became focused on At this time, He refused 10 to get a patent as he did not want to profit 11 off his invention, but to have it globally 12 available. 13 of medicine, and he continued to see patients 14 until age 86. 15 body are integrated, and to help his patients, 16 he adds, listened empathically to their life 17 stories. 18 Practicing Compassion" in 1996, a best seller. 19 My dad was always concerned with the state of 20 the world. 21 professional life keeping people alive while 22 the world was building nuclear weapons that 23 would wipe out all life on the planet. 24 1962, he co-founded Physicians for Social 25 Responsibility, an organization that educated His greatest love was the practice He recognized that the mind and He wrote "The Lost Art of Healing: He wondered how he could spend his www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 In Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 53 1 millions on the medical consequences of nuclear 2 war. 3 Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War 4 that enlisted 135,000 doctors from nations, 5 mobilizing to the dangers of nuclear war. 6 1985, the organization won the Nobel Peace 7 Prize. 8 solemn oath to preserve health and protect 9 life, they assume responsibility for the 10 In 1980, he co-founded the International In As my dad wrote, "When doctors take the well-being of the human family." 11 In 1988, he launched a satellite which 12 connected health care workers in developing 13 world, with up-to-date medical information. 14 2008, he began The Lown Scholars Program, a 15 global initiative based at the Harvard School 16 of Public Health, to bring together physicians 17 from the developing world, to be trained in the 18 use of public health strategies. 19 Lown scholars from 23 countries have been 20 trained. 21 a think tank, to translate my dad's vision of a 22 healthier world into a reality by advocating 23 bold ideas for a just and caring system. 24 in the darkest of times, my dad had an undying 25 optimism in faith in humanity. In To date, 92 He also inspired the Lown Institute, Even He believed www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 54 1 that each of us could make a difference in 2 changing the world if we join with others. 3 my life, I heard my dad's voice asking, what am 4 I doing to make a better world? 5 passion for life, a great storyteller, an 6 incredible memory. 7 world, loved classical music, art, literature. 8 He knew how to understand that to understand 9 human beings we must read world literature, and All He had a He traveled all over the 10 each morning at medical rounds, he would ask 11 his medical residents what they were reading. 12 And he was most passionate about my mother, 13 Louise, his wife of more than 70 years, who 14 accompanied him on this journey and shared his 15 commitment to making a better world. 16 at a in 2019 at age 96. 17 honored and wishes to thank Governor Mills for 18 recommending Bernard Lown to represent Maine 19 for the 2024 American Innovation Dollar coin. 20 MS. STAFFORD: She died My family is so Thank you so much, Ms. 21 Lown. We really appreciate hearing about your 22 father. 23 thank you so much for being with us today. 24 Would you like to add anything or are you 25 comfortable with us moving through the Thank you so, so much. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Mr. Olsen, Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 55 1 2 candidate options? MR. OLSEN: I just want to add, you know, 3 Dr. Lown is somebody that is -- who the state 4 of Maine and Mainers can be extremely proud, 5 and we're very pleased to see him honored in 6 this way, and eager to see the decision of the 7 committee. 8 9 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you so much. So, if it's okay, I will proceed with going through 10 the candidate designs. 11 for these coins are United States of America 12 and Maine. 13 Required inscriptions So, we'll start with design one. This design features a profile portrait of 14 Dr. Lown. A lightning bolt splits an 15 electrocardiogram line under Dr. 16 the effective application of his innovative 17 direct current defibrillation in converting a 18 dangerous case of ventricular fibrillation to a 19 stable and healthy heartbeat. 20 "Dr. Bernard Lown" and "DC defibrillator" round 21 out the design. 22 preference of our liaison, the Governor, and it 23 is also the recommendation of the CFA. 24 also one of the designs it recommended to the 25 Secretary, that would need to be adjusted to Lown, showing The inscriptions I will note that this is the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It is Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 56 1 ensure we comply with the legislative 2 requirement that no head and shoulders of any 3 person be depicted in this program, and so the 4 Mint team has come together and would 5 recommend, that the banner that you see across 6 the lower area be lowered slightly, and to 7 allow for more of his torso to be depicted. 8 And so that would do one of two things. 9 certainly increase the inscription "Maine" and We can 10 the device, the defibrillator. 11 represented symbolically, obviously, through 12 that device that cuts through the center of the 13 design, and as we know from the theme that's 14 been selected, it is Dr. Lown that is being 15 honored as opposed to the innovation 16 specifically of the defibrillator. 17 our chief engraver and our legal counsel, we 18 have Liz Young joining us via the conference, 19 can answer any questions as the committee 20 members may have them. 21 Device is We'll move on to design 2A. And again, This design 22 represents a portrait of Dr. Lown above an 23 electrocardiogram line, going from an irregular 24 to a regular rhythm. 25 starburst, suggesting the defibrillation made A heart appears with a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 57 1 possible by the defibrillator. 2 inscription, "Bernard Lown, MD" appears below 3 the (unintelligible). 4 committee's information, the design previously 5 labeled 2B has been removed from consideration. 6 So, when you see that on your score sheets, 7 that should be ignored. 8 of that when scoring takes place. 9 The Okay, and for the And we will remind you Okay, moving on to Design 3A and 3B. 10 These designs portray Dr. Lown administering 11 defibrillation to a patient. 12 appears to the right of Dr. Lown and the 13 inscriptions "Dr. Bernard Lown" and "DC 14 defibrillator" on cues below. 15 inscription "Dr. Bernard Lown" appears above 16 the starburst with "direct current 17 defibrillator" below. 18 committee's information, the design previously 19 labeled four has been removed, and we will note 20 that when scoring comes. In 3A, a heart In 3B, the Again, for the 21 Design five features a large heart with a 22 starburst and an electrocardiogram line in the 23 background. 24 M.D." 25 appear above and below the heart. The inscription "Dr. Bernard Lown, And "direct current defibrillator" www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Design six Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 58 1 shows a doctor's hands gripping direct current 2 defibrillator paddles. 3 current defibrillator" appears above the 4 composition. 5 design would be updated to include the 6 inscription "Dr. Bernard Lown". 7 The inscription "direct Just a note, if recommended, this Design 7A and 7B present a human torso as 8 a central device. In 7A, a cardioverter 9 paddles flanks each side of the torso with the 10 incused inscription "The Lown Cardioverter" 11 along its bottom. 12 Asclepius -- forgive me if I'm mispronouncing 13 that -- the classical symbol of healing over 14 the heart of the patient. 15 appears incused along the coin's border to 16 symbolize the action of the cardioverter and 17 electrodes appear on the torso. 18 7B shows the rod of Stylized electricity And finally, design eight presents a 19 profile portrait of Dr. Lown with his direct 20 current defibrillator in operation below. 21 design is flanked by the inscriptions "Dr. 22 Bernard Lown" and "direct current 23 defibrillation". 24 the Lown family has expressed deep appreciation 25 for, in particular because of the portrait of The This design is the one that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 59 1 their father. 2 designs. 3 That concludes the candidate DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Are there 4 any technical or legal questions from the 5 committee about this program, or these designs 6 for the 2024 Maine American Innovation Dollar 7 Coin? 8 I want to recognize Art. 9 MR. BERNSTEIN: Before we begin our general discussion, Thank you. 10 Bernstein. 11 discussion of the modifications to design one, 12 were any of the words going to be removed or I 13 just didn't -- 14 I have two questions. This is Art MS. STAFFORD: In the It is very possible. I 15 won't say likely. I'll defer to our chief 16 engraver on that, that in shifting that banner 17 down, that the inscription that would remain 18 would be Maine, and this accomplishes two 19 things. 20 we need to illustrate more of his torso, but it 21 also plants the focus firmly on Dr. Lown as the 22 honoree, as opposed to naming an innovation 23 that he co-invented amongst his numerous, 24 numerous accomplishments. 25 to -- Not only does it address the need that Joe, may I ask you www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 60 1 MR. MENNA: Sure. This is Joe Menna. 2 Yeah. It's not just you, Art, the entire 3 committee, say if you were to lower the 4 horizontal element -- say the top of the 5 horizontal element was lowered to about the 6 midpoint of the EKG readout, you could lower 7 the name and have it arched along the bottom of 8 the coin. 9 because I think it should be more prominent if Probably beef it a little bit 10 it's by itself. So, that would create, it 11 already is a built in exergue there. 12 that would accommodate more of the figure. 13 it meets the legislative requirements. 14 defibrillator would be difficult to accommodate 15 with this adjustment, because as April said the 16 defibrillator -- sorry it's a tongue twister 17 for me and I suffer from a (unintelligible). 18 So, yeah, I believe the EKG readily supplies us 19 with what the apparatus is, and again we're 20 celebrating him. 21 you guys what to think, but I'm not -- I'm not 22 advising the committee how to think, but 23 symbolically and compositionally we can fully 24 accommodate the legislative request for your 25 consideration. So that So, DC So, I think, I'm not telling www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 61 1 MR. BERNSTEIN: Thank you. That was 2 helpful. 3 see different -- as we look at the different 4 designs, there are different ways in which Dr. 5 Lown's title is used. 6 doctor, in some cases it's M.D., and I think in 7 some cases it was both. 8 just curious how that decision was made and 9 what is -- is there one correct way or, or all 10 I had a second question, April. I In some cases, it's I'm not a doctor. I'm of them correct? 11 MS. STAFFORD: So, our understanding 12 currently is that Dr. Bernard Lown or Bernard 13 Lown, M.D., is correct. 14 one with both -- 15 MR. BERNSTEIN: 16 MS. STAFFORD: 17 20 I may have --- we would -- we would recommend eliminating one or the other. 18 19 If there -- if you see MR. BERNSTEIN: So -- Yes, design five has them both. MS. STAFFORD: That would be something 21 that if recommend that we would want to 22 address. Certainly. 23 DR. BROWN: 24 MR. SCARINCI: 25 DR. BROWN: Thank you. Donald? A question about -- Donald? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 62 1 MR. SCARINCI: A question -- Donald 2 Scarinci. 3 sorry, maybe it's six. 4 would you insert the doctors name there? 5 A question about number 7A, or I'm MR. MENNA: Number six. Where This is Joe Menna again. 6 Again, as April noted with the previous design, 7 the apparatus is clearly visible. 8 primary element along with the hands. 9 could take direct current defibrillator away, It is the So, you 10 and replace with the doctor's name very easily, 11 I believe very easily. 12 MR. SCARINCI: Or could you put the 13 doctor's name under direct current 14 defibrillator, and just continue that in the 15 same type? 16 MR. MENNA: This is Joe Menna again. 17 There used to be a member of the committee who 18 was always talking about negative space, and 19 advocating the use of it. 20 committee member who might still be on the 21 committee, I would say no. 22 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: 23 24 25 So, in honor of that There still is. There still is. MR. MENNA: there. But that's a great shape It's a great shape in between there I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 63 1 think. But whatever you -- I'm not going to 2 tell you guys what to do. 3 give my advice, my opinion. 4 DR. BROWN: 5 MS. SALMON: I'm just here to Thank you. Any other comments? This is Robin Salmon. I'm 6 having a very hard time hearing everybody. 7 don't know whether it's a device I'm using, or 8 whether you're just not close enough to the 9 microphones. 10 DR. BROWN: 11 Lawrence Brown. 12 fact that we're so much involved with being 13 diplomatic, that we'll make sure that we 14 actually convey and project our voices going 15 forward. 16 MS. SALMON: 17 DR. BROWN: 18 19 Thank you, Robin. This is I think it's because of the Thank you. Are there any other questions or comments from the committee? MS. LANNIN: I Mary? This is Mary Lannin. When 20 April first began talking about this coin, we 21 are honoring the doctor not the innovation. 22 And as much as I like the cleanness of 06, that 23 shows the innovation not the innovator. 24 think that that we need to figure out how to 25 adjust the portraits of Dr. Lown. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So, I Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 64 1 DR. BROWN: 2 other comments? 3 do you have something additional you want to 4 add? 5 Thank you very much. Any If not, then let us -- April, MS. STAFFORD: I just wanted to 6 acknowledge Robin's comment on behalf of the 7 Mint. 8 members' patience, as we reenter our in-person 9 meetings with the new technology that that we We really appreciate all of the CCAC 10 are employing. 11 focusing on this, and we will be reaching out 12 to collect any notes that you have of your 13 experience and having a meeting afterwards of 14 lessons learned to ensure that we improve all 15 of this for our next in-person meeting. 16 thank you very much, Robin and Peter, for 17 joining us virtually, and we will continue to 18 improve the aspects that you're experiencing. 19 So, on behalf of the Mint, just wanted to say 20 that. 21 22 23 We do have our I.T. team fully So, Thank you. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much, April. really appreciate that. Let us begin our conversation -- our 24 consideration of the issues. As before, I'd 25 like to remind members to please try to keep www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 We Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 65 1 your comments to five minutes or less and 2 identify yourself prior to speaking. 3 remember that we need to make sure we project, 4 so that others in the room, and I would suggest 5 that every member of that project at least in 6 my direction. 7 likely that the speaker, speakers will pick you 8 up and pick up your voice. 9 track of time. Also, So, if you do that, then it's We'll be keeping Additionally, if there are any 10 members who have questions or comments on any 11 program matter, please refrain from asking them 12 during this time until you are recognized, or 13 at the end of the discussion of the program, 14 when I will ask you again are there any 15 additional comments. 16 court reporter and those calling in, I ask that 17 you speak again loudly due to the microphones, 18 microphones, and to state your name when you 19 begin speaking. 20 with Sam Gill. 21 MR. GILL: For the benefit of the Let us begin this conversation Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This 22 is Sam Gill. I had originally settled on our 23 first obverse, I mean 01, because I like the 24 whole, the whole picture. 25 electrocardiogram going across, but I also I like the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 66 1 really like the DC -- D5 open the 2 (unintelligible). 3 So, I like that. 4 that it goes on the coin because it designates 5 the invention -- the innovation that occurred. 6 So, I had to move away from a 01, and just for 7 the sake of art, I liked 02A, but it doesn't 8 have it on there as well. 9 family preference, which was number eight, You know, the defibrillator. But I think that's important So, I settled on the 10 because it does describe the invention, and I'm 11 not crazy about it, but it, but I, it's, it's, 12 it's, it's still good, and that's where I 13 settled out, number eight. 14 15 16 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Let's turn now to Mary Lannin. MS. LANNIN: Well, I started to say 17 earlier -- this is Mary Lannin. I actually 18 preferred number one. 19 to make adjustments to it, but I thought that 20 it was really interesting that sort of like the 21 lightning bolt was pointed right at his heart, 22 and so it divided it into an emergency before 23 and sort of calmness and regularness after. 24 So, my preference is number one. 25 family's preference is number eight. I know that we're going www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I know the I think Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 67 1 it's just got too much going on, and if I need 2 to see defibrillator, I don't want to see DC 3 defibrillator. 4 direct current defibrillator. 5 know, as a, as a shorthand for where we meet, 6 and so I'd like to see direct current 7 defibrillator. 8 with April's notice that we are honoring the 9 man not the invention, I prefer number one. 10 11 12 13 I would like it spelled out We're in DC, you So, with that being said and Thank you. DR. BROWN: Thank you. Turn now to Donald. MR. SCARINCI: I have to very passionately 14 disagree with the whole concept of honoring the 15 man, right. 16 an American innovation series, right, and we 17 are only -- we're not even halfway through 18 this, this, this program and halfway through 19 the series, and if we do this today, then we 20 are opening the door to a whole other series, 21 that is not honoring innovations but honoring 22 the person. 23 he should have a commemorative coin. 24 commemorative coin should be for this person. 25 Remarkable. So, I'm sorry about that. This is This is a remarkable person, and A whole There is no taking it away from www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 68 1 this man, all right. But this is just not the 2 place to do this. 3 this. 4 I, and I, and I would only pray that this would 5 be an outlier in this series, but my fear, 6 since the states are all involved, if we do 7 this, we're not going to see the last of it, 8 and there are many remarkable people in 9 America, and there are many people that This is not the series to do And this would be, and this would -- and 10 Congress should commemorate and we are 11 including him -- including many of those topics 12 in our annual report, and we certainly should 13 include, you know, in the annual report, a 14 recommendation to honor this man, right, who 15 deserves it. 16 It's not the series. 17 of these designs that have, that have a double 18 portrait, no matter how, you know, creative. 19 You know, I'm a lawyer, so I can, you know, we 20 do creative things, right. 21 creatively we want to interpret it, it's just 22 not the right thing to do, and I can't do it. 23 So, I think, you know, I'm going to give all of 24 my support to number six. 25 innovation, which is a remarkable innovation But this is just not the place. And I can't support any And no matter how I'm honoring the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 69 1 that saved, that's saved countless lives. 2 and, you know, and, and it is, it is truly a 3 significant innovation for any state and Maine 4 should be very proud. 5 I have to give all of my votes to number six. 6 Thank you. 7 8 9 DR. BROWN: And, So, I, having said that, Thank you. That was Donald I'm sorry. This is Elizabeth Scarinci. MS. YOUNG: 10 Young. 11 I just wanted to jump in real quick, to clarify 12 that the legislation for this coin program does 13 allow for honoring either an innovation or 14 innovator. 15 understand that that is something that we're 16 able to do in this program, and that we have 17 done prior in other states for this program. 18 Thank you. 19 I'm a legal counsel for this program. Just to make sure that you all UNKNOWN SPEAKER: There was, just for the 20 record, Annie Jump Cannon came in this series. 21 It was the first coin in the series, I believe. 22 Septima Clark and Ralph Baer, that one did not 23 depict the man but the invention. 24 DR. BROWN: Thank you. Joe? 25 MR. MENNA: This is Joe Menna. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I know Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 70 1 we're supposed to wait until the end. 2 just reminded me. 3 semantics with an attorney, let alone Donald 4 Scarinci, but I would not consider it a double 5 portrait as to obverse, as a sculptor, as a 6 sculpture of the Statue of Liberty, scenes from 7 afar, it would be the only portrait on the 8 coin. 9 11 I would never argue With all due respect, Donald. MR. SCARINCI: 10 My boss DR. BROWN: No, absolutely. Thank you all. Let's turn now to Michael. 12 MR. MORAN: Dr. Brown, this is Mike Moran. 13 If it were me in isolation, I would pick design 14 reverse one. 15 But as I've listen, and I wanted to envision 16 lowering the tape, and the printout of the 17 heartbeats, I can't get there. I think it's 18 going to mess with the design. I really do. 19 also, I know we don't want to get into issues 20 of opposing counsels here, but I'm on Donald's 21 side. 22 did the dial on the telephone. 23 it is the innovation. 24 25 It's the most pleasing to me. I We didn't do Alexander Graham Bell; we To me at heart, I'm sorry. On the other hand, his life story is compelling. Absolutely compelling. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 But let's Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 71 1 look at number five. 2 much as number one, and it focuses upon the 3 heart. 4 spelled out. 5 negative space. 6 most lovely thing to look at, but we all need 7 it. 8 support number one, that's where I would go. 9 So, we're probably going to be all over the 10 11 Right there, that says as His name is there, direct current is It's simple. There is plenty of I know the heart isn't the Given that I can't really make myself place. MS. STAFFORD: Chairman Brown, I'm sorry 12 we were --I was conferring with the chief 13 engraver because both Mr. Moran and Mr. 14 Scarinci brought up design one. 15 make sure for the record, at least I can 16 clarify the option that we described for how to 17 adjust it. 18 yes, thank you -- was what the team would 19 suggest. 20 to retain both the inscriptions in the lower 21 portion, and I asked Joe Menna, our chief 22 engraver, to speak to that in case, in case you 23 would consider multiple options. 24 your information. 25 I wanted to If we would go to design one -- But there is another way, I believe, MR. MENNA: But just for This is Joseph Menna, and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 72 1 Roger can help me on this one. 2 has been very instrumental in the development 3 of our template creation, which is, which are 4 minimum sizes for coinability, not minimum 5 sizes for visibility. 6 that is, that is, we have templates for all 7 different denominations of CGM's and stuff that 8 provide the minimum letter text heights and 9 stuff like that. But I don't recommend the 10 minimum usually. But here I think we can go 11 down a little bit, in the current -- in the 12 size of it. 13 template? 14 little bit? 15 names so it's nested within DC defibrillator, 16 like an excerpt within an excerpt sort of? 17 It'll make its own little semi lunar shape, 18 drop that down, you could, you could, you could 19 still drop the full horizontal element down, 20 same as discussed and keep the full text. 21 would just be less legible. 22 coinable. 23 option, not a recommendation. 24 25 Roger Vasquez So, we have a template Right, Rog, according to our If we shrunk DC defibrillator down a Kept that mark? That's one option. DR. BROWN: Then we drop It But it would be This is an Thank you so much for that additional information. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 73 1 MR. MENNA: Yes, sir. 2 DR. BROWN: Dr. Fuller? 3 DR. FULLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I 4 have to say that one of the joys of serving on 5 this committee, is when you get to learn about 6 wonderful Americans, wonderful global citizens 7 that just knock your socks off, and I really, 8 really mean that. 9 this wonderful person who forgo the potential Just to learn about this, 10 for profit, forgoing a patent because he wanted 11 this to be available to humanity, and all of 12 the wonderful things that he has done 13 throughout his long life is really and truly 14 inspiring. 15 note, my wife, Dr. Christina Fuller, is a 16 graduate of the Harvard School of Public 17 Health. 18 know about the work that he did with that 19 school as well, in service of humanity. 20 I'm just so happy to learn about this wonderful 21 human being, and we need more people like that 22 in this world, quite frankly. 23 I liked 1, 3B and I like 3B because I, I really 24 believe that you cannot separate the innovation 25 from the innovator. And if I may, just on a personal So, I'm sure she will be delighted to So, With that said, I think that, pun www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 74 1 intended, they are two sides of the same coin. 2 So, I like the fact that we're seeing Dr. Lown, 3 as well as his invention in 3B, and I also 4 appreciate 8 for the same reasons. 5 DR. BROWN: Thank you. Thank you so much. A reminder 6 for my colleagues, remember to state your name 7 before you begin speaking pretty, please. 8 Next, let's turn to Robin Salmon. 9 10 MS. SALMON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This Robin Salmon. 11 DR. BROWN: 12 MS. SALMON: She has froze. -- for his points. I'm drawn 13 to both the innovator and the innovation, and 14 for that reason, 3B is the one that I 15 preferred. 16 the elements that are required. 17 man in action. 18 which to me is important. 19 it also has the symbolism of what the 20 defibrillator is all about. 21 I am mindful, however, of the family's 22 preference and I will certainly be giving 23 points to number eight for that reason. 24 has the defibrillator in action and all of the 25 other requirements, at least in my mind. It seems to have, for me, all of It shows the It spells out direct current, It has his name, and Sorry about that. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It too Thank Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 75 1 2 3 4 you very much. DR. BROWN: now to Mr. Thank you so much. Let's turn Dennis Tucker. MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. This 5 is Dennis Tucker. And if Ms. Lown is still 6 there, I wanted to thank you for that wonderful 7 description of your father's life and work. 8 couple of things you said stuck out to me as 9 you were speaking with us. A You commented on 10 his commitment to the well-being of the human 11 family, and you emphasized his question, what 12 am I doing to make a better world? 13 wonderful. 14 MS. LOWD: 15 MR. TUCKER: That's Thank you. Thanks to you, and thanks to 16 your family and to your father, of course. I 17 like number eight, which was the family's 18 preference. 19 in the weight of the lettering than some of the 20 other designs have. 21 emphasis to Dr. Lown's name, but it also spells 22 out direct current defibrillator, and I like 23 the use of a cameo portrait. 24 that we don't often see in American coinage. 25 That really spoke to me. I think this has a better balance It gives a little more That's something I just like, I like www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 76 1 the way that looks. 2 is a good combination of the innovator and the 3 innovation, and it works quite well. 4 are my comments. 5 6 DR. BROWN: So, I think, I think this So those Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Let's turn now to Dean. 7 MR. KOTLOWSKI: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 8 Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for having me go near 9 the end, because this was a design portfolio 10 that, that I struggled with. 11 to pay tribute to this Ms. Lown and to Dr. 12 Lown. 13 absolutely beautiful, was inspired, and 14 inspiring, and eloquent and very much befitting 15 of your father and his magnificent 16 accomplishments, and I was really looking for 17 the committee to provide me with leadership and 18 guidance, and you did, just not a lot of 19 clarity. 20 there, and I think I'm just going to speak from 21 the heart as a collector of this series. 22 Ms. And I also want Lown, I thought what you said was There's a lot of good thoughts out The coins that I really like to look at in 23 the series are simple, forceful, mechanical, 24 and geometrical. 25 for me very well in this. Landscapes don't really work We've got one in the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 77 1 series and the portraits don't work quite as -- 2 quite as well, although the exception here is 3 any Annie Jump Cannon. 4 first coins in the series and that was -- that 5 was wonderful artistry, beautiful artistry 6 integrated in with the history and the 7 biography. 8 of a, there's more of a struggle as I was going 9 through these designs. That was one of the And here, there's a little bit more I appreciated Dennis's 10 comments because I do like the cameo in number 11 eight, and I do like the family's design, and I 12 want to be very mindful of what the family is 13 interested in and prefers. 14 qualifications I mentioned before about 15 geometrical, you know, and having a nice, I 16 think, very sort of clean design. 17 number six is very, very, very nice. 18 the way, I forgot; my name is Dean Kotlowski. 19 So, I forgot my name before. 20 wondering what the family would feel if you 21 removed, as was suggested, direct current 22 defibrillator, and we put Dr. Lown's name. 23 There's a part of me that still feels we need 24 his portrait here, I think, to give him a kind 25 of visibility because he is not as well-known All of the Number six, And by Number six, I'm www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 78 1 as other scientific innovators. So, that 2 brings me to two designs. 3 what you're saying about all the adjustments, 4 and so on and so forth. 5 adjustments, it's a little too bland and a 6 little too inactive for me. 7 to hear Dr. 8 think 3B is a little busy. 9 going on here. Number one, I hear I just think after the I was very pleased Fuller and Robin mention 3B. I There's quite a bit You know, you have the sort of 10 star there in the middle. 11 it shows quote/unquote, man in action, and I 12 also like the outline at the bottom of the 13 human figure that he is, that he's engaged 14 with, and I think that this is a nice design 15 that I'm going to give some points to, but, you 16 know, I started out all over the place and I 17 think, I think to some extent that I still am 18 on these designs. 19 Chair. 20 21 DR. BROWN: But as Robyn said, Thank you very much, Mr. Thank you so much. Let's turn now to Peter. 22 MR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 23 This is Peter Van Alfen. 24 preface my comments by thanking Ms. Lown as 25 well for her wonderful introduction to her I also want to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 79 1 father. 2 of Googling of her father. 3 great deal more from her, of course, than ever 4 would have from the Internet. 5 again very much for her comments. 6 I, of course, have done a little bit I've learned a So, thank you Now, I have to say that like Dean, I also 7 struggle with this portfolio. I am not a huge 8 fan of number one, simply because I don't find 9 it particularly attractive design but also, I 10 think that there is a lot of information here 11 that might be lost on some observers, for 12 example, might not be entirely clear what DC 13 mean. 14 colleagues have raised. 15 electrocardiogram graph there. 16 size of a relatively small coin might not 17 convey what it's supposed to mean. 18 also not a huge fan of the lightning bolt 19 because it seems a little bit comic book like. 20 While, like Mike, I also quite like the 21 elegance and simplicity of the number five for 22 the negative space, there are certain problems 23 with this as well. 24 again, if the representation, the sort of 25 anatomically graphic representation of the This is something that a number of my But also just the You know, the And I'm I'm not entirely sure, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 80 1 heart would necessarily not be lost on some of 2 the observers. 3 might look a little bit too much like a frozen 4 chicken, for example. 5 hugely fond of this starburst in the middle of, 6 again, because of the sort of comic book 7 element. 8 number eight, the families preference the best 9 from the portfolio. I think from a distance, it And again, I'm not All told, I have to say I do like Like Dennis, I really do 10 like this cameo portraits, and as Dr. 11 said as well, I think the balance between the 12 innovator and the innovation is nicely conveyed 13 here. 14 number eight. 15 16 17 Fuller So, my preference overall, I think is DR. BROWN: Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Let's turn now to Art. MR. BERNSTEIN: Hello, this is Arthur 18 Bernstein. I'm pleased to be speaking on the 19 Maine one dollar coin. 20 for a family reunion, and there I learned that 21 Maine is the only state name that is a single 22 syllable. 23 now as I speak, but I can assure you it's true. 24 I'm going to speak in favor of design eight, 25 and I support that for all the reasons that I was recently in Maine You'll all be thinking about that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 81 1 have been stated by my colleagues. I think 2 this silhouette is very distinguished. 3 it's busy, but I think it's busy, the design is 4 busy in a good way. 5 or we choose, or we, or design one is selected. 6 In either case, I wanted to comment on two 7 matters of abbreviation. 8 should use DC because of its similarity to a 9 geographic place, and I, I prefer that we have I find If we choose that design I don't think we 10 Dr. Lown's name with M.D. after his name, as 11 opposed to the doctor abbreviation because I 12 think it clarifies that he is a medical doctor 13 and not a PhD. Thank you. 14 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. This is 15 Lawrence Brown. 16 series and this design has been very 17 interesting to me. 18 again thank you, Ms. Lown, for the information 19 you provided about your father, and let me 20 share with the committee members my bias. 21 all know that I'm a physician. 22 in addiction medicine. 23 So typically, when someone is going to have a 24 picture about an anatomical picture of the 25 body, I'm generally interested in knowing And I must confess that this First and foremost, let me You I'm a physician I'm not a cardiologist. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 82 1 whether other colleagues have been consulted to 2 determine that it's a faithful representation. 3 But hearing from Ms. 4 a little bit of Googling as well to hear more 5 about the foundation, I really feel that the 6 defibrillator is understating his innovation. 7 When you think about the contributions he's 8 made, as stated by his daughter, they far, in 9 fact, exceed those things that, in fact, Lown and actually, I did 10 reduction in deaths due to defibrillator. 11 when my colleague Dr. Fuller shared with us 12 about his wife, those in public health would 13 probably say amen to that, because they would 14 say that oftentimes in medicine we talk about 15 the pill, the injection, as opposed to other 16 things we do in life, that improve life. 17 in a way, I must confess that the defibrillator 18 is understating this, and to the extent to 19 which we go forward with that, I would 20 recommend that the Mint actually does even a 21 greater job to really speak to the 22 contributions that this physician has given. 23 must agree with Art with respect to the M.D. 24 versus the D.R., and part of this, I must 25 confess, I do it with some caution. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And So, I do it I Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 83 1 with caution because sometimes we physicians 2 are viewed as arrogant. 3 that. 4 with a lot of PhDs, sometimes they feel that 5 we, in fact, do not really appreciate their 6 contribution. 7 public is going to review this coin, I think it 8 is better to be clear than to have them wonder, 9 because there are a number of scientists who 10 are involved in scientific research that are 11 not MDs. 12 must confess that as much as I appreciate the 13 suggestions by the family on design number 14 eight, I think this still understates his 15 contribution as an innovator. 16 based on what I've heard from his daughter, and 17 what I've read from the Internet. 18 same time, I also recognize that design number 19 one, is one for which, yes, it's going to stir 20 some questions. 21 are not physicians, not too many people who are 22 not of the age range of 50 and above, are 23 likely to have had a EKG to know what it means. 24 But I think still, at the same time, I think 25 having the DC, I would agree with my colleague We need to recognize I'm just saying, folks, having dealt But at the same time, if the In fact, many of them are not MDs. I I really do But at the Not many people who in fact, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 84 1 Mary that we probably should try to do what we 2 can, to either not have a defibrillator there 3 or to spell that out. 4 going to stimulate some questions about what it 5 means. 6 collector of this series. 7 to the fact that what does it say when you pick 8 up the coin? 9 asked to question what it says, if there's not But I think it's still And my bias is also that I'm a So, I'm very attuned To what extent am I going to be 10 going to be someone to actually answer the 11 question. 12 for those of us who say, well, you know, yes, 13 it's there, but there's circulate with much, 14 maybe that's not going to be an issue. 15 think that's part of the problem, quite 16 frankly, I think that not enough of our coins 17 are stimulating the questions by the public to 18 ask them, so that we in fact, are answering 19 their questions. 20 was long winded and Lawrence Brown, but I'm 21 probably going to lean in the direction of one 22 and eight. 23 issues that I've raised about the innovator 24 versus the innovation, and I appreciate Donald 25 your point, but I'm going to lean to the other I know it doesn't circulate. So please forgive me. So, But I That Not because they answer all the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 85 1 lawyer to say that we're already copacetic with 2 respect to going forward. 3 was going to be my votes, and again, thank you 4 for your patience with this contribution. 5 So, those are going Now returning to being the chair, are 6 there any additional comments or motions from 7 the members at this time? 8 DR. FULLER: 9 DR. BROWN: 10 Yes. We have Dr. Fuller? DR. FULLER: Yes, this is Harcourt Fuller. 11 Are we not looking at a reverse for this? 12 Okay, okay. 13 Thank you. DR. BROWN: Other questions or comments? 14 I'm going to turn now to Joe and Mike. 15 have anything you'd like to share with the 16 committee, regarding the designs for this coin? 17 18 19 MR. COSTELLO: Do you This is Mike Costello; I have no additional comments. MR. WEINMAN: Joe, would you just for the 20 record, clarify because of the earlier comments 21 in the introduction, why is 08 not a prohibited 22 bust or head and shoulders portrait, just in 23 case anybody would ask? 24 25 MR. MENNA: Well, I think that there's a difference between a bust and a portrait, or www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 86 1 just part of the bust. A bust is typically 2 anything from the waist up, going all the way 3 up to maybe the sternum or even just one 4 shoulder. 5 -- You see Rodin's portion in the round 6 DR. BROWN: Joe, a little louder. 7 MR. MENNA: This is Joe Menna. 8 9 10 11 Rodin's portraits in the round or -UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Walkie talkie or something. MS. STAFFORD: So, folks that are joining 12 in might want to mute your speakers. 13 return to our chief engraver. 14 If you see MR. MENNA: Oh, I'm sorry. We'll So, if you see 15 here, imagine this is the kind of portrait you 16 see of by Despiau or Rodin, 19th century 17 academic portrait that is just a head. 18 is typically shoulders right down to the 19 sternum, or even all the way down to the waist, 20 a monumental bust. 21 Renaissance busts, even some of the ceramic 22 ones that were done further. 23 people are talking from my prospective, I'm 24 going to diverge what Greg asked me to clarify, 25 if you see, but also those are Dr. Lown's A bust Think about some of the So, anyway, the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 87 1 hands. This is a very interesting sculpture in 2 that design in that you are -- the POV is you, 3 you become Dr. Lown. 4 become the physician and yet, and that you're 5 able to double identify that by seeing, you 6 know, the effigy. 7 remember in the 19th century they did 8 silhouette before they had cameras. 9 like the little paper silhouettes. That's crazy cool. You Typically in 19th century, They do Even my mom 10 had them down when I was a kid on the 11 boardwalk. 12 identifiable way to determine the individual's 13 character. 14 the same profile, nobody. 15 that I was taught by my mentor. 16 that distinguishes all of us, each of us. 17 that the character of his profile combined with 18 the hands, that's him. 19 him, too. 20 this is a really neat, this is like, this is 21 like the Apollo obverse or reverse rather. 22 know, you're the astronaut in that one. 23 very similar, symbolic. 24 you on it, but I did. 25 A profile is the most readily No two people on the planet have It's the one line The one line So And then you become There's something really kind of -- DR. BROWN: You It's I'm not trying to sell So, I'm sorry. This is Lawrence Brown. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Joe, Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 88 1 can you share with the committee, would there 2 be any difficulty in having M.D. instead of the 3 D.R. 4 In any of the design? MR. MENNA: Absolutely not. It's that 5 occupies the exact same space, and in this one, 6 in particular, Lown would probably just move to 7 the left a little bit, and there we'd scooch in 8 after his name because you couldn't stack it 9 like this. But absolutely not, sir. 10 DR. BROWN: 11 MS. STAFFORD: 12 April? I believe Dean has his hand raised. 13 DR. BROWN: Dean? 14 MR. KOTLOWSKI: Joe, thank you for those 15 comments. I could hear you. I was having some 16 trouble hearing some of the other folks. 17 Brown, I think I had a lot of trouble hearing 18 you, and I think in the end you suggested which 19 design you were leaning toward. 20 true, if I didn't get it, could you repeat it, 21 please? I'd be happy to. Dr. If that's 22 DR. BROWN: This is 23 Lawrence Brown. 24 the fact, that being able to really appreciate 25 that the innovator, correction, that the My challenges that I had was www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 89 1 defibrillator understated the innovation, the 2 contributions of the innovator. 3 bit hesitant, but things that focus on 4 defibrillator without, in fact, recognizing the 5 other contributions this physician has had. 6 And I appreciate Donald's point that he's made 7 earlier. 8 lean in that direction if I had to, given the 9 suggestion by the Mint staff regarding design So, I was a So, but still, I think that I would 10 one. 11 as well as, in fact, I'm also receptive to 12 design eight, even though I do recognize that 13 nowadays, and as Joe pointed out, that it 14 appears that you may be the doctor's hand, but 15 I'm not sure anyone who sees that coin, even if 16 they're a physician, they're going to actually 17 look at it from that perspective. 18 electrodes are very different now than they 19 were then. 20 comment. 21 adverse to it. 22 of design one and design eight, or even the 23 limitations that I've just articulated. 24 that is helpful Dean. 25 I'd be leaning that with the adjustments The So, I just want to make that But still, I'm not I'm not totally So, I can lean in the direction Are there any other questions, or www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I hope Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 90 1 clarifications or comments from anyone? I want 2 to turn back to April, to, in fact, Mr. Evans, 3 Elizabeth Young, Deputy Olsen or Ms. Lown, is 4 there anything else you would like to add? 5 wanted to pause for a few moments just to make 6 sure. 7 more based on this conversation that you've 8 heard? 9 I Ms. Lown, do you want to add anything MS. LOWN: No, I really appreciate the 10 opportunity to hear people's comments, and 11 again, the family's in support of number eight, 12 because we think it most vividly reflects the, 13 both the man and the invention, the innovation. 14 So, thank you. 15 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Are there 16 any further discussions by any of the members? 17 Hearing none, the committee will now score the 18 reverse candidate designs for the 2024 American 19 Innovation $1 coin honoring innovations in 20 Maine. 21 front of you a scoresheet, and our members who 22 are participating virtually, you would have 23 received that from Jennifer. 24 thank our liaisons. 25 Lown. Each of you should have received in Again, we want to I want to thank you, Ms. Thank you and your family. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 We really Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 91 1 appreciate your contribution. 2 take 10 minutes. 3 to tally. 4 minutes. We're going to We're going to take 5 minutes So, we are in adjournment for five 5 (Thereupon, a break was taken, 6 and the proceeding continued as 7 follows:) 8 9 DR. BROWN: back. Ladies and gentlemen, we are I recognize Greg Weinman, counsel to the 10 CCAC, to present the results from the scoring 11 sheets. 12 MR. WEINMAN: Yes. Once again, out of a 13 possible score of 33 points, these are the 14 following scores. 15 Obverse 2A received five. 16 four. 17 received 12. 18 7A received 4. 19 8 received 26, making it the high point getter. 20 21 Obverse 3A received Obverse 3B received 15. Obverse 5 Obverse 6 received 10. DR. BROWN: 7B received four. Thank you, Greg. Obverse And obverse Are there any motions? 22 MR. TUCKER: 23 DR. BROWN: 24 MR. ARNZEN: 25 Obverse 1 received 14. This is Dennis Tucker. Dennis. Phillip Anson, with Governor Parson's office Missouri. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 92 1 DR. BROWN: Thank you. Welcome with us. 2 We thank you for your contribution to this 3 process. 4 turn now to Dennis Tucker. 5 Really appreciate it. MR. TUCKER: We're going to Thank you, Mr. Chair. This 6 is Dennis Tucker. 7 the recommended change of the text to Bernard 8 Lown, M.D. in reverse eight. 9 10 11 I would move that we make MR. BERNSTEIN: Art Bernstein would second that. DR. BROWN: There's a motion and a second. 12 Is there any discussion on the motion? 13 none, all those in favor Aye? 14 (Aye) 15 DR. BROWN: 16 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 17 18 Hearing Are there any nays? There is one abstention. DR. BROWN: We have one abstention. The 19 motion passes. Are there any other motions? 20 Hearing none, and the votes stand as you have 21 been, as we've heard. 22 reason for any other motions based on that. 23 not then, since we've essentially concluded all 24 the discussion, we are moved to, in fact, thank 25 again Deputy Olsen and Lown for joining us I don't think there is a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 If Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 93 1 today, and we concluded this matter, and we are 2 --one second. 3 order of business. 4 We're going to turn to the next Turning back to you, April, who will 5 present the reverse candidate designs for the 6 2024 American Innovation $1 coin, honoring 7 innovations from the state of Missouri. 8 9 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you so much, and the design concept for the state of Missouri, the 10 theme is to honor the innovator, George 11 Washington Carver. 12 A little bit of background. George Washington Carver was one of the 13 most revered figures in early 20th century 14 American history. 15 Institute in Alabama is considered instrumental 16 in changing southern approaches to agriculture. 17 Born into slavery in Diamond Grove, Missouri, 18 Carver received his early education in 19 Missouri, in Kansas. 20 and in 1897, Booker T. Washington, founder of 21 the Tuskegee Institute, convinced Carver to 22 serve as the school's director of agriculture. 23 At Tuskegee, Carver developed his crop rotation 24 method, which alternated nitrate producing 25 legumes such as peanuts, and peas with cotton His work at the Tuskegee He later studied in Iowa, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 94 1 which depletes soil of its nutrients. Carver's 2 methods restored nitrogen to the soil, 3 improving crop yields, and was more cost 4 effective than using commercial fertilizer. 5 Despite difficult growing conditions, cotton 6 was firmly positioned as the primary cash crop 7 in the South. 8 branch of applied chemistry that involves 9 finding industrial uses for agricultural raw Carver's interest in Chemurgy, a 10 materials, was driven by his desire to identify 11 new uses for non-cotton southern crops. 12 both an agricultural scientist and an inventor, 13 George Washington Carver is famous for 14 developing hundreds of different, different 15 products using sweet potatoes, peanuts, and 16 soybeans, and in 2000, Carver was a charter 17 inductee in the USDA Hall of Heroes, as the 18 father of chemurgy. 19 As Required inscriptions for these candidate 20 designs are United States of America and 21 Missouri. 22 governor's office with us today, Phillip 23 Arnzen, deputy legislative director. 24 governor's office recently cited a preference 25 for design four, highlighting the agricultural We have our liaison to the Missouri www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 The Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 95 1 aspect of -- because it highlights the 2 agricultural aspect of Carter's work. 3 Arnzen, would like to say a few words to the 4 committee? 5 MR. ARNZEN: Mr. Yeah, glad to be here and 6 it's exciting getting to work on this project. 7 I'm really just wanted to reiterate what you 8 said regarding the Governor's selection for 9 design number four. It really ties the 10 agricultural focus of George Washington Carver, 11 as well as the agricultural history, and the 12 present focus on agriculture for the state of 13 Missouri. 14 kind of having a having a double benefit of 15 tying you back to his history with the state, 16 and also tying back the state's overall history 17 as well as, you know, it has a, you know, 18 aesthetically pleasing design, and it's nice, I 19 guess nice to look at for lack of a better word 20 there. 21 thing I have to say on the coin. 22 any other questions, let me know. 23 So really, the Governor viewed of as That's all, you know, that's the only MS. STAFFORD: If you have Thank you so much. 24 will move through the candidate options. 25 start with design one. And we We'll This design features www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 96 1 imagery commemorating the lively, fertile mind 2 of George Washington Carver in earthen textures 3 cut away to reveal peanuts and sweet potatoes 4 growing into the soil. 5 diligence and scientific inquiry he displayed 6 throughout his remarkable life. 7 inscription George Washington Carver is incused 8 next to the microscope. 9 just a couple of things about this design. A microscope evokes the The Now, I want to say 10 First, the CFA declined to make a formal 11 recommendation. 12 support to this design, but asked that a slight 13 reworking be brought back for their 14 consideration. 15 design out of the portfolio because it is the 16 only one that depicts Carver himself and they 17 felt it was critical to depict this very 18 important black American scientist. 19 thought that the initial execution of how 20 Carver integrated into the other elements was 21 slightly inelegant, and if you extend that 22 concept that they worried, perhaps it could 23 even be seen as disrespectful. 24 a slight differentiation between the man and 25 his imaginings. However, they gave very strong They first focused on this But they So, they wanted Of course, when we heard their www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 97 1 very strong feedback on this point, our team 2 immediately convened and our chief engraver led 3 the way, and worked with the artist to retain 4 the original artist vision, but yet answer the 5 very important ask that the CFA gave us. 6 we have a, uh, a slight update revision for you 7 to see here, if we can go to that. 8 ask Joe, our chief engraver, to speak to this 9 because this is an indication, but really it's So, And I'll 10 about how it would then be modeled or sculpted. 11 So, if you don't mind. 12 MR. MENNA: Sure, so, this is Joe Menna. 13 When listening to the CFA's request, we went to 14 work with the artist to develop a way to have, 15 not have the figure and the ground earth be 16 contiguous, but still the earth, the earth was 17 his life, right? 18 humanity sprung from the earth. 19 did was agriculturally based. 20 one with the Earth. 21 artist's idea. 22 thought it would be really cool of Donald's 23 idea to, and we've done this on medals, but we 24 never did this on a circular, we never did this 25 on coins, slightly incuse the back of his head The gifts that he gave Everything he So, he's kind of That was kind of the But under the CFA's request, I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 98 1 and back into the, so you have that division. 2 You still have a connection with him to the 3 Earth, and in a way that is very typical of 4 monuments done in say Eastern Europe, Martin 5 Luther King monument, Washington, D.C., where 6 they're coming out of the stone, in this case 7 he's coming out of the earth, but yet he's 8 distinct from the Earth. 9 also carried by the line of the microscope. That distinction is 10 And the last thing was, and also not to be 11 hypocritical in the talk about busts, and not 12 busts, this whatever, because it is part of a 13 broader sculptural mass, we didn't consider it 14 a bust. We consider this more of a sculpture, 15 really. This is a different thing here. 16 never done this on a coin before. 17 to incuse, partially incuse the back of the 18 head into the feet, into the other massive art 19 would be something that I don't think has been 20 done since like 1908. 21 MS. STAFFORD: This is -- Something like that? Okay. And of course, I'll 22 move through the rest of the portfolio. 23 you so much. 24 25 MR. MENNA: silent type. We've Thank And if I could add, my strong This is Joe Menna again, but we www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 99 1 also consult with Mike to make sure it's 2 coinable and feasible. 3 change that were rendered by another set of 4 eyes. 5 MS. STAFFORD: I would never make any Okay. All right. Moving 6 on to design 3A, and 3B, these designs feature 7 a beaker holding a germinating plant. 8 outer border is inspired by old produce crates 9 of slatted wood and contain the inscription The 10 George Washington Carver. Design four 11 represents George Washington Carver's use of 12 the Jessup wagon to educate farmers about 13 beneficial agricultural practices. 14 would travel the countryside, sharing an 15 innovative series of free brochures that 16 included information on crops, cultivation 17 techniques and recipes for nutritious meals. 18 The inscription, "George W. Carver" appears 19 above the wagon. 20 this design would need to spell out Washington 21 instead of just having the initial. 22 five centers George Washington Carver on a 23 banner overlapping two fields of produce. 24 top half is filled with peanuts and peanut 25 plants. Carver Please note, if recommended, Design The bottom field is filled with www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 The Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 100 1 soybeans, sweet potato vines and sweet potato 2 flowers. 3 symbolizes George Washington Carver's work in 4 science and agricultural. 5 George Washington Carver's promotion of crop 6 rotation as a way of preserving soil, and 7 diversifying the types of crops grown in the 8 rural southern United States. 9 above and peanuts below are within the circular A test tube fostering a small plant Design six features Cotton blossoms 10 arrows labeled with the words crop rotation. 11 The inscription "George Washington Carver" 12 rounds out the design. 13 seven features a design with incused and raised 14 graphic peanuts, including the inscription 15 George W. Carver, suggesting the idea of crop 16 rotation. 17 lower right, represent the development of the 18 peanut in new recipes and industrial 19 production, a process attributed largely to 20 George Washington Carver's innovations. 21 please note we confirmed recently with the 22 State Historical Society of Missouri that 23 George Washington Carver's name was ideally 24 spelled out in full. 25 liaison to the governor's office cannot support And finally, design The three organic peanuts at the And For that reason, our www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 101 1 this design, and unfortunately there is really 2 with this concept, it would be difficult, if 3 not impossible, to include the appropriate name 4 involved. 5 candidate designs. 6 And Mr. Chairman, that concludes the DR. BROWN: Thank you so much, April. To 7 the committee, are there any technical or legal 8 questions from the committee, about this 9 program or designs for the Illinois 2024 10 American Innovation $1, before we begin our 11 general discussion, I recognize Mike Moran. 12 MR. MORAN: This is Mike Moran. Joe, 13 let's look back at change of one. 14 bothered by the curvature of the skull there, 15 it looks a little unnatural? 16 MR. MENNA: Are you That's easily remedied. I 17 would say that the art is definitely work from 18 source material, of which there was plenty, but 19 a lot of the references of Dr. Carver from the 20 profile that are in this (unintelligible). 21 the artist never tried strengthen it. 22 it was (unintelligible). 23 far. 24 line can be adjusted in any way, so that when 25 something that would -- See I think I think he went too We can revisit that very easily. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 That Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 102 1 MR. MORAN: It looks, first blush, 2 flattened on the top, because it's made to 3 conform with the horizon there. 4 MR. MENNA: But it won't be because heads 5 going to sink back. 6 just curve. 7 down. The head's not going to The head's actually going to sink 8 MR. MORAN: I'm talking about the top. 9 MR. MENNA: I know, but you have to, there 10 was that was the notion of raising the ground, 11 but it makes for some slight coinability 12 things, it makes for a really strange pinch 13 point. 14 he did explore his options. If the ground is higher than the head, 15 DR. BROWN: Speak up. 16 MR. MENNA: He did explore those options. 17 We felt that for both coinability and 18 aesthetics, that this was the most viable 19 version in terms of the flatness of the top 20 right. 21 DR. BROWN: All right. 22 MR. MENNA: But again, also, that could be 23 remedied, not right at the top, not right the 24 connection, but as the ground goes further in 25 the back, you can definitely, you can www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 103 1 definitely play with the amplitude of ups and 2 downs of dirt and stones to make it more active 3 if that was a recommendation that you, that the 4 committee chose to endorse. 5 anything you want. 6 DR. BROWN: This is Lawrence Brown. 7 correction with my statement. 8 state of Missouri. 9 We could do It should be the Any other comments or questions from the 10 committee? 11 technical issues that you'd like to ask? 12 One A legal, or design issue or DR. FULLER: This is Harcourt Fuller. I 13 suppose I can reserve my comments when I'm -- 14 when it's my time to speak. 15 might have some design questions, but I'll, 16 I'll wait my turn. 17 DR. BROWN: Okay, any other comments from 18 any other committee members? 19 Brown, again. 20 of our consideration. 21 apologies. 22 So, I guess I This is Lawrence Then let us begin our discussion I'm sorry. My Dean, please forgive me. MR. KOTLOWSKI: Certainly. The Governor's 23 office objects to number seven, because George 24 Washington Carver's name is not spelled out. 25 also notice that as a difficulty, but the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 104 1 governor's preference is for number four and 2 number four is George W period Carver. 3 MS. STAFFORD: Yes, yes, that's correct, 4 and I believe I noted it would need to be 5 remedied. 6 7 8 9 Yes. MR. KOTLOWSKI: missed that. Okay. Thank you. I just I'm sorry. DR. BROWN: Quite alright. Any other questions or comments from the committee? Then 10 let us begin our consideration. 11 I'd like to remind us to please try to keep 12 your comments to five minutes or less, and 13 identify yourself prior to speaking. 14 Additionally, if any members have any questions 15 or comments on any program, please refrain from 16 asking or discussing these until you are 17 recognized at the end of this current 18 discussion, and I promise you that I will ask 19 for those comments later on. 20 of the court reporter and those calling in, I 21 ask that you speak loudly due to the, due to 22 the microphones and state your name when you 23 begin speaking. 24 and begin with Dr. Harcourt Fuller? 25 DR. FULLER: Once again, For the benefit With that then, let's turn to Thank you, Mr. Chairman. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 105 1 think that every coin that we have the 2 privilege of reviewing is important, but bar 3 none, and so I treat all of them equally. 4 However, I do have to say that for particular 5 coins, they might have a particular importance. 6 We're talking about an African-American 7 scientist, which I think for many people will 8 be very important, because we need more 9 diversity on our money to say it bluntly. And 10 please forgive me if I -- if I have to be a 11 little bit blunt. 12 the stakeholders, including the governor's 13 office, the designers, and everyone else, I'm a 14 little bit disappointed in this portfolio, and 15 I hope I'm not overstepping my boundaries in 16 saying that, but I think I have to be open and 17 honest as a member of this committee and not 18 always be diplomatic. 19 disappointed because the first of all, I think 20 the design that is chosen should include his 21 image because that will be important to the 22 public. 23 seeing is believing. 24 a lot of people are looking for inspiration. 25 They are looking for people with whom to With all due respect to all I'm a little bit I think we have to remember that People are looking for -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 106 1 identify. And so, I think his image should be 2 on the coin, and that's why it's difficult for 3 me to consider the other designs, even though I 4 think five and six have merit. 5 would prefer five because his name is in bold, 6 George Washington Carver, whereas in six, when 7 I look at the coin, I immediately see crop 8 rotation because it's in bold, and I would flip 9 that and put his name in bold and not crop I would, I 10 rotation. But let me finish my comments by 11 talking about why I said I'm disappointed. 12 When I look at one, if you could go to one, 13 please. 14 artist, but when I look at this, George 15 Washington Carver is turning his back on his 16 inventions. 17 looking through the microscope. 18 it's a prop, and I'm not a designer, but I have 19 an opinion. 20 embracing his inventions, perhaps looking 21 through the microscope and perhaps seeing the 22 sweet potato and the peanuts. 23 kind of looking through the microscope and 24 seeing those underneath the ground or the 25 earth. Again, and I, I apologize to the That's how I read it. He's not It's as if I would want to see him facing, You know, he's Yeah, it's -- he -- yes, it's, it's, he www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 107 1 needs to face them, and I'm sorry, this merger, 2 I understand what the artist was trying to do, 3 this merger, this oneness between Carver and 4 the earth, I'm trying to find the best word is 5 -- doesn't work for me. 6 something disturbing and I have to use the word 7 that I'm feeling, there's something disturbing 8 about that. 9 the most promising one. It just, there's It doesn't work for me. This is I would go back to the 10 drawing board on this one. 11 elements. 12 rearranged. 13 boundaries, but I'm just being open and honest, 14 and doing my duty as a member of this 15 committee. 16 It has all the They just need to be reimagined and And I'm sorry if I overstepped my Thank you. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much, and before 17 we move on, I think that it's important for us 18 to feel comfortable, to be able to share and to 19 appreciate the diversity, that each of the 20 members provide to this committee. 21 that if we, if we do anything other than that, 22 then we will actually be undermining the roles 23 that we play, and the contributions that we're 24 making on behalf of the public. 25 Mary Lannin. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I think Turning now to Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 108 1 MS. LANNIN: Okay. I remember lying on my 2 parent's couch when I was probably ten years 3 old. 4 and I picked up a book on George Washington 5 Carver, and I read it cover to cover. 6 thought I'd never heard of him before. 7 thought it was one of the coolest things that 8 anybody could have done, and he had such a 9 fertile mind. I must have had the measles or something, I I So, unlike my colleague, Dr. 10 Fuller, I look at this and I see him whizzing 11 to the left, like trying to invent something 12 else. 13 the fact that we could probably do this incuse. 14 That hasn't been done since as Joe said like 15 probably 1908. 16 what you perceive might be a very exciting 17 point because of the incuse. 18 saying? 19 much more stuff. Dynamic, he didn't just 20 settle for this. He's busy. 21 absolutely my favorite one out of this -- out 22 of this whole group. 23 the other artists some consideration. 24 like the crop rotation because I did like 25 pointed arrows, which I thought was really He's active. He's a scientist. I like I think that the solution to You know what I'm And so, to me, he's on his way to do That was But I would like to give www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I did Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 109 1 neat. 2 Operating Sweetgrass right now about the 3 treatment of soil, and going back to Mother 4 Earth, and it's very good. 5 inventiveness of number seven, even though we 6 couldn't get Washington in there. 7 that that was very clever. 8 textural to pick up. 9 DR. BROWN: 10 I'm reading a great book called I thought It would be very So that's it. Thank you. MR. VAN ALFEN: And I also like the Turn to Peter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 11 This is Peter, Van Alfen. I have to admit that 12 I struggled quite a bit with this portfolio. 13 The concepts of crop rotation and chemurgy, I 14 think, are really rather difficult to 15 encapsulate on a small coin, and so like Dr. 16 Fuller, I also think that the innovator in this 17 case really should be portrayed, but I have to 18 say that I'm not really enormously pleased with 19 number one. 20 governor's office's selection is probably one 21 of the more elegant designs in the portfolio, 22 but I also find it really rather impersonal. 23 think it would have been better to have a 24 portrayal of Carver's standing next to the 25 wagon, for example, and again, it really I think that number four, the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 110 1 doesn't necessarily convey the notion of crop 2 rotation or chemurgy. 3 selections in the portfolio, such as number 4 three, you know, from a design prospective I 5 think, you know, is okay, but again just what 6 is being portrayed here might be lost on some 7 of the observers and what the significances is. 8 So, you know, all in all, I have to say I'm 9 really struggling to select a favorite from all Some of the other 10 of this and again, leaning towards the 11 governor's preference for simplicity, and the 12 fact that it does convey agriculture more 13 successfully in some cases than others, but 14 doesn't really suggest Washington's role in 15 this, and of course, doesn't -- nor or his 16 innovation of crop rotation and chemurgy, and 17 of course, is lacking the portrait of him. 18 the fact, and sort of inconclusive bit of 19 commentary. 20 Thank you. 21 22 23 So, I'll pass it onto the next person. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Let's turn to Art. MR. BERNSTEIN: This is Arthur Bernstein. 24 And Dr. Fuller, I'd like to thank you, I'd 25 like to acknowledge your remarks and tell you I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 111 1 appreciate them. I, I don't think you stepped 2 outside your bounds, and it is helpful of my 3 consideration. 4 Peter, in that I'm a little baffled by which 5 one I'm going to ultimately support. 6 have the same reaction, Dr. Fuller, that you 7 had to the -- to the design, and I really 8 wanted to see George Washington Carver 9 portrayed, and this is the only design we have And I feel a little bit like I didn't 10 in which he appears. So, no disrespect, but I 11 think I'm going to lean towards number one, 12 because I want to see George Washington Carver. 13 Like Mary, I liked design seven. 14 was clever, but we've got to use the man's real 15 name, and unfortunately, that just doesn't 16 work. 17 remarks. 18 a lot of negative space. 19 real leap to look at the cart, and unless one 20 had April's explanation, and I guess you would 21 on the card, but it's a leap to the innovation 22 that he used the cart to teach about the 23 science, and so I would give some high marks to 24 design six, because that at least makes the 25 innovation clear with the rotation that appears I thought it Design four, I wanted to echo Peter's It is elegant. It is simple. It has But I think it's a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 112 1 on the coin. Thank you. 2 DR. BROWN: Thank you. Turn to Mike. 3 MR. MORAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. This is 4 Mike Moran. Of the designs that were presented 5 to us, I would put my votes on number six 6 because I think it's a unique and good 7 representation. 8 rotation. 9 that there is more to this man, just as we have It's easily understood a crop However, I agree with Dr. Fuller 10 with the Maine images. I think one was close, 11 but unlike horseshoes, close doesn't count and 12 it needs to start -- the elements are right; 13 the composition is wrong. 14 I think as he was saying that I remembered one 15 we did the medal on the convoy system, World 16 War Two, and one of the designs had the officer 17 with the binoculars up, and then the artist had 18 taken them within two circles, what he was 19 seeing in the ships convoy. 20 microscope and do something of the same there. 21 In terms of what George Washington Carver was 22 looking at and trying to do. 23 never be able to look at this coin without Dr. 24 Fuller's comment about that he's turned his 25 back on his developments, which was the last Dr. Fuller hit it. You can take this And I'll probably www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 113 1 thing that they did or would want to do. 2 built on his developments and took them to a 3 higher level. 4 side with the CFA, and ask the Mint designers 5 and go back on this one, given the input, and 6 try again. 7 8 9 He I really think that we ought to That's it. DR. BROWN: Thank you. Let's turn to Sam Gill. MR. GILL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This 10 is Sam Gill. I agree with Dr. Fuller on number 11 one, and that I'm going to shorten and just say 12 I just couldn't get there with it. 13 only image we have. 14 this coin. 15 our history. 16 here, if anybody wants to see it. 17 on a 50-cent piece, commemorative 50-cent piece 18 with Booker T. Washington. 19 the first one. 20 I was comfortable having seen his image on 21 another coin that I could go to number six. 22 And I like it, I like the arrows because it 23 points to the rotation, and I also, I will tell 24 you, the crops are right with cotton on top and 25 peanuts on the bottom, and that's what offsets It's the I would prefer an image on He did appear of one other image in In the 1950s, I have it right He appeared But his image is So, you can see it there. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So, Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 114 1 the other, that's the nutrients. So, I like 2 number four in the elegant, from the standpoint 3 of being elegant, but it doesn't tell the 4 story. 5 to see the story. 6 Thank you, Chairman. 7 DR. BROWN: Dr. Brown and I share this, we'd like So those are my comments. Thank you so much. And if you 8 were to pass the coin around so that other 9 members of the committee can see it, for those 10 11 who have not had -MR. SCARINCI: Dr. Brown, one other thing. 12 One of the reasons for that coin was they were 13 concerned about the spread of communism within 14 the African-American community. 15 that in the inscriptions. 16 honor the man. 17 in this case less. 18 You'll see We could not just We had to do something more, or DR. BROWN: Mike, I'm glad you said that, 19 and I'll hold my other comments about that 20 little later. But let's then move on to Robin. 21 MS. SALMON: Thank you, Dr. Brown. This 22 is Robin Salmon. 23 me from the beginning that the subject of this 24 innovation is looking in the wrong direction. 25 I felt just like it was wrong and that he The design number one struck www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 115 1 needed to be looking into the design. I 2 understand that some of this is an allusion of 3 all the things that of all the things that are 4 in his mind, but it's, he still needs to be 5 looking into the design and either by flipping 6 the profile, or by moving it over to the right 7 side of the design itself. 8 been said, putting together the plants and the 9 microscope and the materials that he worked With that having 10 with so successfully, I think are important, 11 and I just don't want the subject of this 12 innovation to be totally lost. 13 couple of other designs that I did like, simply 14 because they're very organic and agricultural 15 and presentation; that would be five. 16 even though it doesn't have the image of George 17 Washington Carver, it does have his name 18 prominent in the center of this particular 19 design, and then all around are the plants that 20 he was so instrumental in bringing to the 21 forefront in the South, and in other parts of 22 the country. 23 is a very nice design. 24 rotation, which was one part of Dr. Carver's 25 innovations. There were a Yeah, And then number six also I think It does focus on crop But to me, it's a pleasing www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 116 1 design. 2 might? 3 have difficulty going with number one for the 4 reasons I stated, and I, for that reason, will 5 probably focus on number five as my choice. 6 Thank you. 7 8 9 Does it honor the man as much as it Otherwise, I'm not sure. DR. BROWN: Thank you. But I have, I Let's turn now to Dennis Tucker. MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. This 10 is Dennis Tucker, and thank you, Dr. Fuller, 11 for saying what you said and expressing those 12 thoughts. 13 for these ideas, and feelings and insights to 14 be shared and discussed. 15 about representation really struck me. 16 daughter's six years old. 17 and half Filipino she will proudly tell you so. 18 Whenever there are coins or medals, that can 19 show kids that there are minorities being 20 successful, contributing to the American 21 experience, I think that those opportunities 22 should be taken. 23 show Professor Carver on this coin. 24 show some representation of him as a portrait, 25 or a bust or however we determine. I think this is precisely the place Everything you said My She's half American I agree 100% that we need to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 We need to If we look Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 117 1 at number one, I like Joe's solution of 2 delineating his portrait with an incuse line. 3 I think that's a that's an interesting solution 4 that works. 5 saying, Dr. Fuller, about him, you know, we 6 should show Dr. Carver owning his innovations, 7 facing them. 8 reader, of course, and in the Western world, we 9 read left to right. And I understand what you're But I'm a writer and a voracious So, if I were to read this 10 coin, I would read it first as Dr. Carver, then 11 I'd read the microscope, and then I'd read the 12 developments, agricultural developments and the 13 innovations. 14 this design, I'm happy with it. 15 what you're saying about how it, how it's 16 almost as if he's turning his back on his 17 innovations, but reading it, quote/unquote, I 18 read it differently. 19 see the Mint develop another option along the 20 lines that you've discussed. 21 some point one of us will make a motion of 22 sending this back to the design team, just so 23 that we can focus on what we might call the 24 design 1 and design 1A, just because the 25 possibilities are very intriguing, and as So, I, I think if we stay with I understand However, I would like to So, I imagine at www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 118 1 somebody said, we have all of the ingredients 2 here. 3 as best they can. 4 wonderful discussion. 5 Thank you. 6 7 DR. BROWN: So, thank you all for this Mr. Chair, I'm finished. Thank you. Let's turn now to Dean. 8 9 We just need to kind of make them work MR. KOTLOWSKI: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is Dean Kotlowski. April, I want to 10 apologize for missing the comment that you 11 made. 12 this portfolio, and, you know, I've been 13 thinking about it even while you were talking. 14 And that's why I was so distracted. 15 little bit, I'm a little bit oddly emotional 16 about it. 17 superior design, which isn't going to work, is 18 number seven and something I noticed late in 19 the game here. 20 Carver, who's always referred to as George 21 Washington Carver, never George W. Carver. 22 this just doesn't work. 23 about why I like this design so much. 24 a kind of artistry that is, is very delicate, 25 and its messaging is stitched in here like fine I've spent a lot of time thinking about And I'm a The design that I think is just the I Googled George Washington So, Let me talk to you www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 This is Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 119 1 lace. He had raised and infused peanuts. So 2 that gives you the crop rotation. 3 the graphic peanuts and I saw the peanuts, but 4 I also saw footprints, and I saw footprints 5 moving upward in an elevated way. 6 the footprints as imprints, something that 7 George Washington Carver left behind in terms 8 of legacy. 9 everything that Dr. Fuller mentioned. I looked at I also saw I agree with a lot of almost I find 10 myself agreeing with Sam on one point and in 11 particular, and that is I think it would be 12 nice, but it is not necessary to show George 13 Washington Carver's portrait, if we had a 14 really great design that didn't show it, and I 15 think this was a really great design, but it's 16 not working for this reasons I'm talking about, 17 and it is for the reason that Sam was 18 mentioning. 19 featured on two United States stamps issued 50 20 years apart, that have portrait; 1948 and 1998. 21 And you know, what Sam and Dr. Brown were 22 saying about the Carver Washington coin in 23 1954, I think they were issued a little bit 24 earlier is true about anti-communism. 25 it's just a great coin, and it is, it was George Washington Carver is also www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I think Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 120 1 designed by Isaac Scott Hathaway, who was an 2 African-American sculptor, who also designed 3 the Booker T. Washington commemorative coin 4 which is just a few years earlier. 5 lot of throat clearing, and I think it was 6 important to mention Hathaway in this kind of 7 context. 8 all, and it's not really for the reasons that 9 were stated, although I think that that is true That's a I really don't like number one at 10 about looking away. I don't think that 11 revision quite works. 12 and the motifs, they're kind of, it's very 13 heavy. 14 this is kind of caked on with a trowel, I think 15 that it's messaging. 16 looking away from the inventions, but I saw 17 this as an non-elevated portrait. 18 him in the ground. 19 Martin Luther King Junior monument. 20 thinking of the crazy horse monument, somebody 21 coming out of a mountain, but that's not what I 22 was thinking of here. 23 ground, and I think there are all sorts of 24 connotations there beyond science, that I, you 25 know, and I worry how this will be received. Here, I think the themes If one is like fine lace, you know, I didn't see him as It's putting I was thinking of the I was I was thinking the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 121 1 So, I am not going to go any further, but I 2 have a pretty strong reaction against number 3 one. 4 that we can send this back and get a 5 satisfactory design, I think there would be 6 pressure to improve the design. 7 be very blunt. 8 are in politics. 9 Number four is boring, sorry. So, what are we left with? I'm not sure I'm going to The governor's office, you guys You can take bluntness. So, we're left 10 with number five and number six. 11 number six is clever in the way, I think Mary 12 was talking about the rotation, but I'm 13 probably going to go with number five, for the 14 reasons Robin talked about, that at least you 15 have George Washington Carver's incused name 16 right there, and it's bold, state of Missouri 17 is clear, and it's probably the best that we 18 have. 19 to the artists for number seven. 20 was a very good design. 21 22 I think But I'm going to say this again, kudos DR. BROWN: That really Thank you. Thank you. Now turn to Donald. 23 MR. SCARINCI: 24 DR. BROWN: 25 MR. SCARINCI: So -- And you are Donald? I'm sorry, Donald Scarinci. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 122 1 I completely embrace what Harcourt said, and I, 2 you know, and I'm hoping that we're going to be 3 able to pull it off. 4 to make a motion to see a whole new set of 5 designs, and throw this batch of designs into 6 the waste bin. 7 is this is an important topic, and I think none 8 of these designs express it appropriately, and 9 I think, John, it was a great attempt at saving But I really feel we need And, and I think, I think this 10 number one, you know, but I just don't think 11 number one does it. 12 if my motion fails and I'm forced to vote on 13 one of these, then I would probably, I, you 14 know, I, you know, and Dean thank you for 15 saying the things you said, because it means I 16 don't have to say those things. 17 You know, but I think seven is a workable 18 solution. 19 could, you could, you could get Washington in 20 there by linking George up and putting 21 Washington, you know, in; it could be done and 22 you know, and that would, and that has the 23 potential of being a design that would be in 24 tandem with other coins in the series, without 25 going to the extent of having to have a You know, if I'm forced, But just not as it is. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So, thank you. I mean, you Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 123 1 portrait, right? If you did have to have a 2 portrait, if there is a strong sentiment of a 3 portrait, I would really like the artist to 4 see, you know, coins like the 2018 Irish of 5 five-pound coin depicting James Joyce, you 6 know, very cleverly, or some of the Eastern 7 bloc coins, country coins which depict 8 portraits in, you know, in more modernistic 9 style and also show what they did and the 10 portrait together in combination. 11 are, there are coins, you know, there are coins 12 if we had to have a portrait on this one. 13 know, there are other ways to do a portrait, 14 that would also be in keeping in, keeping with, 15 you know, the that kind of techy look of the 16 rest of the series and break, but my preference 17 would be to try to communicate without 18 reverting to a portrait, right, and I agree 19 with also what's been said earlier about the, 20 you know, the 1950s commemorative series, and 21 that was a series of coins by the way, produced 22 in multiple years, you know, but it wasn't 23 produced, you know, to honor necessarily to 24 honor the two individuals depicted on the coin. 25 It was produced for some other reasons at the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So, there You Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 124 1 time. So, I'm going to make a motion to, you 2 know, whether I win or lose, I'm going to make 3 a motion to reject all of the designs, and ask 4 Joe to go back to the drawing board and give us 5 a new set of designs, and maybe we can have a 6 special meeting of the CCAC on Zoom to consider 7 them, so we don't delay, you know, any 8 manufacturing process and time frames that are 9 implicated. 10 DR. BROWN: Motion has been made. Is 11 there a second? 12 MR. MORAN: Second. 13 DR. BROWN: As the chair has come to 14 appreciate from time to time, I must be able to 15 hear the voices of all the members of the 16 committee, even though sometimes that may be 17 contrary to my voice. 18 come to appreciate that that is indeed the role 19 of the chair. 20 I've got a second by Mike. 21 22 23 But as the chair, I've So first I've heard the motion. MR. WEINMAN: Any discussion in the motion discussion? DR. BROWN: Right, now we're going to take 24 discussion of the motion. Who would like to 25 offer a discussion for the motion? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 125 1 DR. FULLER: Harcourt Fuller. I don't 2 think we necessarily have to throw out every 3 single design. 4 designs that have merit, but I, I do think we 5 should reconsider this portfolio and 6 specifically number one, but I think there are 7 some, a few others, I would say, you know, 8 five, six, for example, Dean convinced me on 9 seven that it has merit. I do think there are some So, even if we reject 10 everything, you know, I feel like, I guess we 11 could bring some of these back if that makes 12 sense. 13 14 MR. WEINMAN: We can offer a friendly amendment. 15 DR. FULLER: 16 MR. WEINMAN: A friendly, okay. To modify, to say you know 17 don't want to reject all of them, but you just 18 want to -- 19 DR. FULLER: 20 MR. WEINMAN: Add some of them. And then maker of the motion 21 can either accept or deny your friendly 22 amendment. 23 24 25 DR. FULLER: All right. So, I'd like to make a friendly amendment to amend, to amend -MR. WEINMAN: To amend rejecting all of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 126 1 the designs. 2 DR. FULLER: 3 MR. WEINMAN: Right. And instead request 4 additional new designs to be presented to us. 5 And, you know, I accept that amendment. 6 is now a motion on the table. 7 DR. BROWN: So, any additional comments 8 anyone would like to offer. 9 then take the privilege of the chair. 10 11 12 13 14 That MR. WEINMAN: Let me, if I can, I believe Dean has his hand up. DR. BROWN: I'm sorry. Dean, please forgive me. MR. KOTLOWSKI: I know something's going a 15 little weird in my Teams here, so hopefully you 16 can hear me. 17 DR. BROWN: Quite well. 18 MR. KOTLOWSKI: I guess my question is, I 19 don't want to keep hammering this home, but I 20 want to pursue every avenue and opportunity. 21 Is number seven completely lost? 22 there's nothing that we can do with it, I mean, 23 if we send it back to the artist. 24 don't want to do, you know, design by 25 committee, but I think you can tell I feel very www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I mean that Again, I Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 127 1 strongly about this and, yeah. 2 DR. BROWN: 3 MR. WEINMAN: 4 Thank you, Dean. Now, back to Mike so he can comment on this. 5 DR. BROWN: Yes, Mike? 6 MR. COSTELLO: Yes, as far as number 7 seven, I know everybody's expressed some 8 interest in this one. 9 10 DR. BROWN: And you are Michael? MR. COSTELLO: Mike Costello, I'm sorry. 11 It's Mike Costello. 12 with George W Carver, and fit George Washington 13 Carver on the outside edge here. 14 possibility with this design. 15 MR. MENNA: We could replace Missouri So, it is a And if I could follow up. 16 This is kind of out of my lane. From an 17 artistic perspective, artistic excellence is 18 primary, but one of the components of artistic 19 excellence, when you're trying to tell an 20 America's story, is to honor all the voices 21 that are part of America's story, and we're 22 working towards that in the future. 23 different conversation. 24 artist taking this task order, Dr. George 25 Washington Carver to me, he was one of the That's a But if I, if I was an www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 128 1 first African-American, he's the only 2 African-America scientist you learn that when 3 you're about when you're little kids. 4 first, he is legendary. 5 he did what he did as artists, to me the 6 message would be he is, he is as much part 7 innovation as what he innovated. 8 how you could not have a representation of him, 9 and what he did because of who he is. The And at the time when I don't see It's so 10 important who he is. He's not just another 11 doctor. 12 fought an incredibly uphill battle to what he 13 did. 14 become who he was before he even made the 15 innovations? 16 if you are to consider redesigning, I wouldn't, 17 I would from an artistic perspective, I'm not 18 telling the community what to do, just 19 symbolically incorporating the portrait in some 20 capacity, then we're in portrait, just alluding 21 to his identity is very important I think, 22 because identity cannot be separated from his 23 achievements, and I'm saying that from position 24 of privilege, I don't mean to overstep my 25 bounds. He's an African-American doctor that Who knows what he must have gone to So, that in itself to me, I mean www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 129 1 DR. BROWN: Thank you, Joe. I would like 2 to speak in favor of the motion, of the amended 3 motion. 4 series I'm mindful of that. 5 fact that I'm a collector of a limited amount 6 of series of classic commemorative, and the 7 Washington Carver, Carver Washington one is one 8 of them. 9 behind that, and I think the history behind Number one, as a collector of the Number two is the And I'm too familiar with the history 10 that deserves that this body really think about 11 other designs, that actually demonstrate some 12 portrait of this important American. 13 Fuller, you've only awakened our minds in this 14 table. 15 It's been phenomenal. 16 opportunity to actually say that we're not 17 doing it again because, in fact, trying to 18 compete or stop communism, that was the total 19 reason for that commemorative. 20 that, we want to do it for the reasons that Dr. 21 Fuller articulated, that this, in fact, is a 22 diverse America, a different America. 23 have to represent folks who've done what 24 they've done for all Americans. 25 regard, my comments is in favor of the amended And Dr. So, feel free from what you've said. I think that we have an We want to say www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And we So, in that Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 130 1 motion. 2 comments for or against the motion? 3 Are there any other conversations or MS. STAFFORD: May I just add; it's 4 neither for nor against, but I, I want to say 5 if it's if it's allowable, that they're there 6 absolutely, the Mint staff, we all welcome all 7 of these comments, and for folks who are rather 8 new to the committee, we have had vigorous, 9 colorful, sometimes very hard, strong 10 conversations, and what we have proven time and 11 time again is this team collectively have very 12 broad shoulders. 13 like there isn't a reason to be blunt or a need 14 to pull punches. 15 here for. 16 remember being part of the original discussion 17 about the American Women Quarters program, when 18 we first brought that portfolio for that 19 program to this committee, there were designs 20 that only featured the accomplishments of the 21 women, and it was this committee that said, for 22 this program we want to include a convention 23 that requires these women themselves be 24 depicted. 25 recommendation, it was then on a requirement. So please don't ever feel This is exactly what we're I would also just note, if folks And from that, from that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 131 1 And we hear you loud and clear that this 2 portfolio is lacking. 3 committee seem to be communicating that, but we 4 heard similar from the CFA, and we absolutely 5 need that feedback, and we'll double back to 6 you. 7 launched in a different way than the American 8 Women quarters. 9 artists to explore the different ways to Not only does this Of course, this program was slightly We wanted to allow for the 10 communicate, whether about innovator or 11 innovation, and so there wasn't a requirement 12 one way or another about to include people or 13 innovations, one or the other, but perhaps room 14 to consider all of it, which is why we 15 sometimes see a broad spectrum of 16 representation. 17 So, thank you for that. MR. WEINMAN: And if may follow up on 18 that, and just Dr. Fuller, if there's even -- 19 and that's the beauty of this committee and our 20 relationship because you give us different 21 perspectives that would, maybe, maybe we get 22 perspectives that we haven't yet entertained or 23 been aware of. 24 from a symbolic perspective, as an artist, is 25 he of the land or bound to the land, in the So, if there's even a question www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 132 1 latter connotation there are horrific. 2 anybody has a question, I get it. 3 do -- I'll do better as an (unintelligible) and 4 try and avoid that kind of symbolism in the 5 future, be more careful about it, think about 6 it more clearly. 7 DR. FULLER: 8 brief point, Mr. 9 DR. BROWN: If You know, so And if I may take a final Chairman? You certainly may. 10 DR. FULLER: Just two quick things I want 11 to follow up on. 12 mentioned the land issues; it's critical. 13 know that as a designer or as an artist, we're 14 going to see, we're going to see something one 15 way. 16 because we have different backgrounds. 17 as a writer, I have to say, you know, I might 18 write something, and it might come out in a 19 different way when the public sees it. 20 very happy we are reconsidering this because I 21 think it's very important. 22 again, I want to, I want to make sure that, 23 again, the representative from the governor's 24 office as well as from the artist, again, no 25 disrespect meant, but I just felt like I need I think and I'm glad you I But people see things a different way And I, So, I'm And just finally, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 133 1 to, I needed to express my opinions based on 2 several different factors. 3 that to the representatives, to the governor, 4 as well as the artist. 5 Thank you. 6 DR. BROWN: So please convey No disrespect meant. Well said. Are there any 7 other comments with respect to the motion on 8 the table? 9 10 11 12 13 14 PANEL: Hearing none, all favor say aye? Aye. DR. BROWN: Any abstentions? Any nays. The motion passed unanimously. MR. SCARINCI: Let's make a point it's unanimous. DR. BROWN: Are there other further 15 discussions on this matter? 16 if all discussion has concluded, then we are 17 recessed to 1:15. 18 Hearing none and I would like to thank, in fact, Mr. 19 Arnzen, the representative of the governor's 20 office and everyone else who has participated. 21 Thank you so much. 22 reconvene at 1:15. Really appreciate it. We 23 (Thereupon, a break was taken, 24 and the proceeding continued as 25 follows:) www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 134 1 DR. BROWN: We are back from lunch. 2 will take a quick roll call. 3 reminder, this hearing is recorded and 4 transcribed. 5 verbally when I call your name, Dean? I And as a Please acknowledge your presence 6 MR. KOTLOWSKI: 7 DR. BROWN: 8 MS. LANNIN: 9 DR. BROWN: Here present. Mary Lannin? Present. Peter? 10 MR. VAN ALFEN: Present. 11 DR. BROWN: 12 MR. BERNSTEIN: 13 DR. BROWN: Mike Moran? 14 MR. MORAN: Here. 15 DR. BROWN: Robin Salman? 16 MS. SALMAN: 17 DR. BROWN: 18 MR. TUCKER: 19 DR. BROWN: 20 MR. GILL: 21 DR. BROWN: 22 DR. FULLER: 23 DR. BROWN: Art? Present. Present. Dennis Tucker? Present. Sam Gill? Present. Dr. Fuller? Present. And I am Dr. Brown. We have a 24 quorum. Now let's turn once again to April 25 Stafford, who will present for consideration www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 135 1 the obverse and reverse candidate designs, for 2 the Congressional Gold Medal to the women known 3 as "Rosie the Riveter". 4 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. And some 5 background about this program. It is Public 6 Law 116-195 that awards a Congressional Gold 7 Medal collectively to the women in the United 8 States, who joined the workforce during World 9 War II, providing the aircraft, vehicles, 10 weaponry, ammunition, and other material to win 11 the war who were referred to as, quote, "Rosie 12 the Riveter", unquote, in recognition of their 13 contributions to the United States and the 14 inspiration they have provided to ensuing 15 generations. 16 includes any woman who held employment, or 17 volunteered in support of the war efforts 18 during World War II. 19 workers led to active recruitment by the U.S. 20 government for war industry jobs. 21 beginning in 1942, white middle-class women 22 were recruited, followed by minority men and 23 finally, minority women. 24 and minorities into the workforce was initially 25 met with resistance. The term "Rosie the Riveter" A shortage of white male Initially, Integration of women However, these new www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 136 1 opportunities nudged the door open for equal 2 rights, and profoundly impacted both the civil 3 rights movement and the women's movement in the 4 decades to follow. 5 minimum of six million and potentially as many 6 as 16 million women entered the workforce. 7 Homefront workers faced many challenges, some 8 of which would lead to significant change in 9 the nation. During World War II, a Working conditions were difficult 10 and dangerous. Between the bombing of Pearl 11 Harbor in December 1941 and the D-Day invasion 12 of Europe in June 1944, there were more home 13 front industrial casualties than military 14 casualties. 15 workplace safety and regulations, as well as 16 better access to affordable health care. 17 Childcare was also a concern for many working 18 women, as mothers comprised a significant 19 portion of the workforce, and this led to the 20 establishment of child development centers, and 21 the professional field of early child 22 development. 23 filled industrial jobs like fastening rivets on 24 aircraft and welding. 25 ammunition, and other war supplies that powered This would lead to improved These working wartime women They built the armor, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 137 1 the U.S. military to victory in Europe and 2 Asia. 3 machines and other heavy tools that most women 4 had never even heard of before the war. 5 the country, women stepped up and stepped into 6 work many jobs too numerous to list, that were 7 vacated by the men who were serving our country 8 overseas. 9 effort, but also kept homes and farms running They operated heavy cranes, milling Across They not only supplied the war 10 during the war years as well. 11 program, we are very fortunate to have a number 12 of liaisons with us. 13 former "Rosie the Riveter" herself, Lori Gould, 14 daughter of Phyllis Gould, another former 15 "Rosie the Riveter", and Sarah Pritchard, 16 executive director with the "Rosie the Riveter" 17 Trust. 18 For this They are Mae Krier, a Because we have a number of liaisons, 19 there are a number of preferred designs that 20 have been identified. 21 them now, before asking our liaisons if they 22 would like to make any comment. 23 preferences of our liaisons are obverse, one. 24 Okay, I'll go ahead and list them and then 25 we'll throw to our liaisons. I will go ahead and list Amongst the Okay, we'll just www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 138 1 pause for a second if that's all right. 2 calling up the document now. 3 We're All right. So, the multiple obverse press preferences 4 include obverse one. Thank you. Obverse one, 5 obverse five, and obverse eight, which includes 6 8A and 8B, and there is a single preference for 7 a reverse design, and that is reverse one. 8 CFA recommended obverse 1A, which is a version 9 of one of our liaisons preferences, and they The 10 further requested that the design be slightly 11 revised to remove the hairnet from one of the 12 figures and they also recommended reverse one, 13 and we'll stop at those designs as we move 14 through and reinforce those preferences. 15 for now, we'd like to call upon our liaisons to 16 see if they have anything that they'd like to 17 share. 18 share some comments first? 19 MS. But Can I ask Lori Gould, would you like to GOULD: Yeah, hi, I'm Lori Gould, 20 Phyllis Gould's daughter, and I have her great 21 granddaughter sitting here with me as well. 22 as far as just a short history of my mother, 23 she was one of the original six hired in the 24 shipyards in Richmond, and this has been her 25 project for decades to see this happen. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 139 1 Unfortunately, she passed away last year and 2 won't see the finished medal, but she was, had 3 lots of notes and drawings on what her vision 4 of this metal would look like. 5 quite the journey. 6 face of the coin or medal I liked the RO3, and 7 the one that you said would need to change the 8 hairnet. 9 that it should represent the women, the faces So, it's been The one that I, for the I think that on the face of the coin, 10 of the women that we're honoring, and then I 11 feel like the reverse of the medal should tell 12 their story, tell what they did. 13 the reverse, I really like the RO3. 14 that it does tell that story, the welders. 15 don't even know what it's called, but I grant, 16 my niece does, I think that needs to be changed 17 a little bit. 18 me, but I like the design and I really like the 19 artist of the face of the coin that's up on the 20 screen right there. 21 of information you need. 22 So, as far as I think I It doesn't look quite right to MS. STAFFORD: So, I don't know what kind Well, actually, Lori, if 23 it's okay, and this is Did Stafford. 24 you to repeat the designs that you identified 25 as preferences, and just for your awareness we www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Can I ask Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 140 1 have at present entered into record, that the 2 collective preferences for the obverse included 3 designs number one, five and the series of 4 eight, 8A, 8, 8A and did you say there was an 5 obverse three or did I mishear? 6 MS. GOULD: Yeah, so the 05 for the front, 7 and then I looked through a lot of completed 8 metals and coins, and just looking at those and 9 how they looked finished, I really like the RO3 10 with the recessed areas, and it just seems like 11 it would be absolutely beautiful finished. 12 It's hard to see on line to sort of visualize 13 it, but -- 14 MS. STAFFORD: Okay, so just for the 15 committee's awareness, of our liaison is 16 introducing it appears reverse three as well 17 and we had reverse one previously stipulated as 18 a as a collective preference. 19 Lori. 20 Sarah, would you like to say a few words? 21 So, thank you, I appreciate you circling back to that. MS. PRITCHARD: Hi. Good morning, 22 everyone. I really appreciate having worked 23 and being part of this committee, and so I just 24 want to thank you all. 25 behalf of Mae Krier, Rosie Mae Krier, who I And I do want to say on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 141 1 believe is not on this call today because of 2 technical barriers, that she just is also very, 3 very grateful that this is happening, and very 4 excited. 5 speaking on behalf of Mae Krier, part of what I 6 think is very important is the lettering that 7 says honoring "Rosie the Riveter", all women of 8 many races who came together to carry our 9 nation during World War II. And so, I think that my words and I'm And there's a 10 couple of different designs with this on it. 11 And so, the ones that are, that are stronger 12 it's not this one shown, but and this design is 13 great. 14 side of the coin, is to have the women 15 representing the different ethnicities. 16 this is a strong one. 17 others. 18 can I talk about the reverse side? And I think what's important on one So, And there's a couple I'll leave that to the group, and then 19 MS. STAFFORD: 20 MS. PRITCHARD: Sure, please. Okay. So, on the reverse 21 side, I think one side of the coin it's to have 22 the women of the different ethnicities, and I 23 think this one, the one, yes sorry. 24 computers switching around, not just one again, 25 but on the reverse side, what I see is that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 My Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 142 1 there's a lot of different choices, but there's 2 only a few of them that show one woman. 3 I'm going to advocate that the reverse side has 4 the one woman with the different, you know, the 5 different industries that they were in. 6 There's this design here, and then there's, 7 also, this we're seeing up on the screen. 8 then there's also another one of a what looks 9 like an African-American woman that's in the And And 10 position, much like I don't know if you knew, 11 but there was a very famous artist that on the 12 cover of a magazine, someone help me here, they 13 kind of created this "Rosie the Riveter" that 14 was different than the Westinghouse, this one 15 exactly. 16 come away with request one, is that there is 17 this writing honoring all women that came 18 together, and two is that one side shows the 19 diversity of the women that came, and then the 20 second sign does show a woman with her face, 21 because there's a number of them that are just 22 tools. 23 wearing welding and protective gear. 24 doesn't show -- am I making myself pretty 25 clear? So, my yeah, I think I'm going to There's a number of them that they're www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 That Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 143 1 MS. STAFFORD: I think so, yes, and we'll 2 have an opportunity as we move through the 3 portfolio for the members to ask questions. 4 And you're also welcome to insert commentary as 5 well when the discussion ensues absolutely. 6 7 8 9 MS. PRITCHARD: Great. Thank you so very much. MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. So unfortunately, as Sarah indicated, we don't 10 appear to have Mae with us. So, with that, 11 we'll move through the portfolio, we'll 12 highlight the preferences. 13 preferences that we were aware of coming into 14 this meeting offers obverse one you see here, 15 obverse five, and the series of obverse eight 16 includes eight, 8A and 8B and as far as 17 reverses, well, look, we'll go ahead. 18 on to the obverses. 19 one and 1A. 20 five Rosie's to depict the diversity of women 21 in the war effort. 22 variety of professions women stepped into 23 during World War Two. 24 inscription "Rosie the Riveter", 1942 and 1945. 25 While Design 1A includes the inscription So first of all, We'll go Let's start with obvious These designs feature profiles of They represent the wide Design one includes the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 144 1 honoring "Rosie the Riveter". All women of 2 many races who came together to carry our 3 nation during World War II. 4 you've heard obverse on was amongst the 5 preferences of our liaisons. 6 recommended 1A, which is a version of obverse 7 one because they felt the inscription was 8 critical for the obverse. 9 image that the CFA recommended the hairnet on I should note The CFA So, and this is the 10 one of the individuals being removed. Moving 11 on to obverse two, this design features 12 profiles of five Rosie's to represent the 13 diversity of women in the war effort. 14 wear the signature polka dot bandanas. 15 design also features a wrench at the bottom of 16 the design, representing the work of the 17 Rosie's, and the inscription "Rosie the 18 Riveter". Obverse three depicts five Rosie's 19 representing the diversity of women in the war 20 effort, each wearing a signature polka dotted 21 bandana. 22 a rivet gun. 23 border of rivets, and this is a design, I 24 believe that Lorie just indicated was amongst 25 her preferences most appropriate. They all This One holds a wrench, and another holds The design is surrounded by a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Is that Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 145 1 correct, Rosie? I'm sorry, Lori, or was it the 2 reverse three you're talking about? 3 MS. GOLD: It was reverse three. 4 MS. STAFFORD: Obverse five. Okay. Thank you. Thank 5 you. We'll move to first 6 obverse four, depicts five Rosie's to represent 7 again all of the women in the war effort, 8 wearing their signature work attire and 9 standing in the way, in a way that soldiers 10 might stand at attention. One Rosie carries a 11 wrench held in a similar manner to a soldier's 12 rifle. 13 background. 14 Riveter", and here is obverse five. 15 this is the obverse five that our liaisons 16 identified as a preference. 17 Rosie's to represent the diversity of women in 18 the war effort. 19 and another is prepared to weld. 20 inscription is honoring "Rosie the Riveter". 21 And obverse six depicts five women to represent 22 the diversity in the war effort. 23 are encased in here representing that it was 24 the Rosie's powering American industry during 25 World War Two. An American flag bellows in the The inscription is "Rosie the Again, It depicts five One Rosie holds a rivet gun, The The portraits The inscription "We Did It www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 146 1 Together" references the iconic "We Can Do It" 2 slogan and signals a mission accomplished. 3 additional inscriptions are "Rosie the Riveter" 4 "Act of Congress" and "2020". 5 depicts five Rosie's to represent the diversity 6 in the war effort, all wearing their work 7 attire with rivets along the border. 8 inscriptions are "Rosie the Riveter", an "Act 9 of Congress", "2020". The Obverse seven The Next we have a series of 10 obverses. Obverse 8, 8A and 8B, depict five 11 Rosie's to represent he diversity of women in 12 the war effort. 13 with rivet guns, welding tools, drills, 14 wrenches, and clocking in four work. 15 designs also feature a riveted surface with an 16 inscription that reads, "We went to work when 17 the world needed us the most." 18 seen here and 8A, and then finally on 8B, you 19 see the inscription simply "We did it." 20 those designs are amongst the liaisons 21 preferences. 22 again to represent the diversity of women in 23 the war effort. 24 unified phalanx. 25 echo the configuration of the cockpit, and the The designs feature Rosie's The On designs 8 Again, Obverse nine depicts five Rosie's Standing in the formation of a Their depiction and placement www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 147 1 engines of the silhouette of the 17-bomber 2 flying as a result of the Rosie's efforts. 3 inscriptions are "Rosie the Riveter", "1942" 4 and "1945". 5 here, we'll mention the preferences. 6 reverse one, which was a collective preference 7 of our liaisons, as well as the recommendation 8 of the CFA. 9 it, reverse three was just identified by one of Moving on to the reverses. The And We have And I'll also note when I get to 10 our liaisons as well. 11 this design. 12 a wrench, casually resting on her shoulder and 13 a rivet in her other hand. 14 M4 tank traveled behind her and a B-17 bomber 15 flies above, representing the variety of 16 equipment built by the Rosie's. 17 rivets frames the design with windows featuring 18 the inscriptions "Act of Congress 2020" and 19 "1942 to 1945". 20 liaisons. 21 there was a suggestion made to consider 22 switching out the phrase act of Congress with 23 the inscription "Rosie the Riveter". 24 Moving on to obverses 2 and 2A. 25 So, we'll start with Reverse one features a Rosie with A Liberty Ship and A ring of Again, preference of our The CFA's recommendation. The CFA, These designs depict a Rosie with her wrench, and a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 148 1 rivet gun looking towards a B-17 bomber, a 2 liberty ship, an import tank, and a Jeep with a 3 group of soldiers representing the wide variety 4 of project she's helped accomplish. 5 inscriptions are "Honoring the women of many 6 races coming together to save our country 7 during World War II", and "1942 to 1945". 8 Obverse three depicts three Rosie's at work. 9 I'm sorry these all are reverses. The Reverse 10 three depicts three Rosie's at work. One welds 11 the circular frame around the design, and one 12 aims her rivet gun at the silhouette of a B-17 13 bomber, while one wields a wrench near the 14 silhouette of a liberty ship, as if she's just 15 tightened enough. 16 The inscriptions are "Honoring the women who 17 helped win World War Two", and "Act of Congress 18 2020". 19 of our liaisons has identified as a preference. 20 Obverses four and Reverses excuse me, 4 and 4A 21 depict a "Rosie the Riveter" name patch on a 22 border of rivets. 23 the Riveter", "1942, 1945" and "Act of Congress 24 2020". 25 II star stencil, 4A also features an adjustable Rivets encircle the design. Again, this is the new design that one The inscriptions are "Rosie Design four also features a World War www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 149 1 wrench and bolt. Reverse 5 features 2 silhouettes of a B-17 bomber, a liberty ship, 3 and an import tank against the background of 4 sheet metal, that has been riveted together 5 with two wrenches atop. 6 inscriptions are "Women Working Together for 7 Victory", "1942", and "1945". 8 features a Liberty Ship and a B-17 bomber above 9 a pair of gloves positioned in a V for victory. The addition Reverse six 10 An adjustable wrench and a rivet gun represent 11 the variety of manufacturing tools used by the 12 Rosie's. 13 of Congress 2020" and "World War II". 14 seven depicts a pair of gloves and an 15 adjustable wrench, with silhouettes of ships 16 and planes in the background. 17 include "Act of Congress 2020", "Made in USA" 18 and "Victory World War II". 19 features the classic polka dot "Rosie the 20 Riveter" headscarf as a schematic blueprint 21 against a backdrop of riveted panels. 22 nine features an upraised arm clutching a 23 wrench, with a B-17 bomber and liberty ship in 24 the background with a border of riveted panels. 25 The inscriptions are "World War II", and "Women Additional inscriptions include "Act Reverse Inscriptions Reverse eight www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Reverse Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 150 1 of many races came together to save our 2 country". 3 Rosie's lunchbox, bandana, and wrench against 4 the backdrop of a waving American flag. 5 inscriptions are "1942 to 1945", and "All women 6 of many races who came together to save our 7 country during World War II". 8 the candidate designs. 9 Finally, reverse ten depicts a DR. BROWN: The That concludes Thank you so much. Now to the 10 members. 11 questions from the committee about this 12 program, or these designs for the Congressional 13 Gold Medal, for the women known as "Rosie the 14 Riveter"? 15 16 Are there any technical or legal MR. VAN ALFEN: Van Alfen. Dr. Brown, this is Peter I do have an observation if I may? 17 DR. BROWN: Please proceed. 18 MR. VAN ALFEN: On reverses one, and 19 reverses five, the B-17 depicted is a C or a D 20 model, and those were out of production long 21 before the war started. 22 one of these two reverses is selected, I would 23 suggest that we make a motion to have the B-17 24 depicted, to have either an E, F or G model 25 that were in production during the time of the If this reverse, if www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 151 1 Rosie's would have been building B-17s. And 2 the B-17 as depicted on the Reverses two and 3 nine G models, which would be correct for the 4 period that again C or D model that's depicted 5 on a reverse one and five, I would suggest the 6 change to later models the Rosie's would have 7 built. Thank you. 8 DR. BROWN: 9 MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Mary? This is Mary Lannin. I have 10 a question. 11 age restriction to be a "Rosie the Riveter"? 12 Could you be too young or too old? 13 14 15 Does anybody know if there was an MS. STAFFORD: That might be a, Sarah, is that a question you could answer? MS. PRITCHARD: Yeah, it is. The answer 16 is no. 17 but we do know that they, to work in the 18 different companies, that it was to be 18 years 19 old, and we know that at a number of Rosie's 20 including some of our Rosie ambassadors, they, 21 they just, they lied and they came in at 16, 17 22 years old. 23 know, you can say 18 and above. 24 25 You could not be too young or too old, But I think for the majority, you MS. LANNIN: How far is the above, I mean could you be and working as Rosie? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 152 1 MS. PRITCHARD: I mean that is, it's a 2 very overarching definition. It's any woman, 3 and actually, it's not just for women that you 4 can call the "Rosie the Riveter", but it's 5 anyone that came to the home front and worked. 6 And it could be in an office. 7 been, you know, growing vegetables. 8 be collecting elastic and metal, and it could 9 be in the factory. It could have It could So, it's a very, very loose 10 definition. But, you know, if you were able 11 bodied, then you were considered a "Rosie the 12 Riveter" going into the factories. 13 know, what we do see is there was a lot of 14 young women; we'll say that. 15 MS. LANNIN: 16 DR. BROWN: 17 DR. FULLER: Thank you. Dr. Fuller? This is Harcourt Fuller, and 18 sorry if I missed this. 19 woman known as Rosie? 20 Rosie? 21 MS. PRITCHARD: 22 DR. FULLER: 23 24 25 And, you Was there actually a Was there an actual No. I understand that the term is a generic term? MS. PRITCHARD: No. Yeah, and this is Sarah again from "Rosie the Riveter" Trust. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 153 1 There was, there was not, there was not an 2 actual person named "Rosie the Riveter", but 3 there was a song that came out and was very 4 popular during that time called "Rosie the 5 Riveter", and that song was actually later, it 6 wasn't until decades later that that song 7 connected to the Westinghouse posters. 8 don't have an image of the, you know, the 9 iconic "Rosie the Riveter", but I think you all We 10 know what I'm talking about, that iconic 11 Westinghouse poster, and the song kind of came 12 together, but it wasn't until decades after the 13 war. 14 Westinghouse poster and the woman that's 15 flexing her muscles and the song, and we call 16 her "Rosie the Riveter". 17 And now today we look at that DR. FULLER: And if I may follow up on 18 that. I think that's very important for the 19 designs, because if there were a specific woman 20 identified as Rosie, I think at least for me, 21 that would help me decide if on the obverse I 22 would want all the women, and then on the 23 reverse, just one woman, because she was 24 identified as Rosie. 25 you correctly, that's not necessarily the case, So since, if I understand www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 154 1 although there might be this association with 2 this poster in the song, you know, it clarifies 3 some things. So, thank you for that. 4 DR. BROWN: This is Dr. Brown. 5 MS. PRICHARD: 6 DR. BROWN: Correct, right. I'm sorry. This is Dr. Brown. 7 I have a follow up question to that. 8 ever consider, and I'm just asking, matter of 9 fact requiring that there were Rosies the 10 Riveters? 11 Fuller raised? 12 13 Did you Yes, given the comments that Dr. Was it ever a consideration? MS. PRITCHARD: I'm sorry, did you say considered Rosies plural, Rosies the Riveter? 14 DR. BROWN: Yes. 15 MS. PRITCHARD: I mean I think that that's 16 you know, that's a possibility. 17 just not what we find culturally, how we, how 18 we call that. 19 you know historical relevance, and also 20 cultural relevance and just mainstream society. 21 We tend to say "Rosie the Riveters" or "Rosie 22 the Riveter". 23 But that's So, this is something that is, DR. BROWN: Thank you. Any the other 24 question from the members of the committee? 25 And by the way -www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 155 1 MR. KOTLOWSKI: I just wanted to jump in 2 with something. This is Dean Kotlowski, and 3 Ms. Pritchard, you can come in and what I'm 4 about to say, but just to kind of reinforce 5 your point and about the song. 6 song and the diversity come together 7 beautifully in a 1980 documentary called The 8 Life and Times of "Rosie the Riveter", which is 9 just a terrific film. You know the And if I remember 10 correctly, there's no narrator in the film 11 which was kind of common for documentaries at 12 the time. 13 interviews and the footage. 14 worth taking a look at. It just moves seamlessly from the 15 DR. BROWN: 16 MS. PRITCHARD: It is definitely Thank you so much. Thank you, but I don't 17 know that film. I'll look it up. 18 DR. BROWN: 19 Lawrence Brown. 20 comment that you make, we'll take that into 21 consideration later in the conversation, to see 22 if it's even necessary to do so based on the 23 design and the discussion later on. 24 begin our consideration. 25 remind members again to please try to keep your Okay, and let me just, this is Just to say that, Peter, your So let us I would like to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 156 1 comments to five minutes or less, and identify 2 yourself prior to speaking. 3 any members have questions or comments about 4 the program, let's in fact hold those back 5 until we're at the end of this discussion 6 period. 7 comments or questions later on. 8 benefit of the court reporter and those calling 9 in, I ask that you speak loudly due to the Additionally, if And I certainly will ask for those For the 10 microphone, directly on the microphones, and 11 state your name before you begin speaking. 12 let's begin with Mike Moran. 13 MR. MORAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. So, Let's 14 start looking at obverse one and 1A1. I 15 originally liked that. 16 use of space. 17 pleasing. 18 ethically correct, but then as I looked at it, 19 and looked through the rest of the portfolio, I 20 realized there was one thing that didn't jive 21 to me. 22 headed down to the canteen for the Saturday 23 Night Dance at the USO. 24 the thing that struck me, the casualties, the 25 industrial accidents that they suffered that I I thought it was good I like the images. They're very They are very pleasing, and they're Most of these girls look like they're It does not convey, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 157 1 never thought about before I heard those 2 statistics, and I think as a result of that, 3 there are other images of "Rosie the Riveter" 4 here that are more appealing to me. 5 specifically, I liked it hasn't been mentioned 6 by anybody R7. 7 seven. 8 photographer, or the light photographer was on 9 the production line. Let's go by R7, R07. And Obverse It looks like to me like the lift Here, I want to get five 10 young girls right here. Come on over here. 11 Let me get your picture for the magazine. 12 me, it's got a gritty look. 13 then and there on the production line look to 14 me. 15 faces, and it just looks like I would want, 16 would have expected to see them come off the 17 production line. 18 matter of fact, here we are. 19 job. 20 obverse. 21 specifically to R5. 22 On B-17s. 23 or F. 24 would have either. 25 I like the fact that the weapons of war are in To It's got a right The girls have good expressions on their Nothing fancy about it. Just We're doing a So that's where I am in terms of the Let's go to the reverse, and let's go Peter, my hats off to you. I wouldn't have known A, B, C, D, E, I don't think any of the rest of us But I do like this design. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 158 1 silhouette. 2 riveted iron plates, and I think to me that 3 makes, I'm kind of assuming that if it isn't 4 silhouette, it will be incused but even so, I 5 think that makes a very compelling artistic 6 reverse of a subject that's difficult to make 7 artistic, and as a result, that's where my 8 recommendations are. 9 DR. BROWN: 10 11 What's not in silhouette are the Dr. Brown, I'm done. Thank you, sir. Turn to Mary Lannin? MS. LANNIN: I just knew you were going to 12 do that. This is Mary Lannin, and let's start 13 with the obverses first. 14 of, one of the preferences was 1 and 1A, and I 15 have to say that there's a certain charm to 1 16 that I liked because it was clean looking. 17 which is a preference of the CFA, I think we've 18 all heard the expression word salad. 19 too much stuff in there. 20 simplified by saying women who came together to 21 carry our nation during World War II. 22 obvious that there are different races. 23 far less wordy that way. 24 of like editor hat on that one. 25 reason I ask the question about the age. So, the preference 1A There's It could be It's It's So that was my sort www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Then the Take Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 159 1 a look at obverse four, and we have in this 2 one, though I like the fact that they were 3 lined up like soldiers, as April said, but 4 there's a definite, there's a definite range of 5 ages here that showed different aged women 6 being able to do different things. 7 the woman that second from the left is not 8 anywhere near the age of the woman who's 9 directly on the left. Certainly, And so, I think that 10 that shows not only races, but a broad age 11 range of people who helped. 12 very much. 13 and I think alike. 14 completely appealing to me as amended by Peter 15 van Alfen. 16 votes toward number five. 17 comment, on number, on reverse number one. 18 She's holding a wrench on her shoulder, which 19 is meant to be like a hexagonal wrench, I 20 think. 21 And I don't think that's the right tool for the 22 job. 23 out on this, so what is, so in case this one is 24 chosen, somebody has to match the tool and the 25 rivet correctly, and that's all I have to say. So, I like that Now, to get to the reverses, Mike I found number five to be And so, I would definitely put my I wanted to make a And she's holding a rivet that's round. You know, and we're going to get called www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 160 1 2 DR. BROWN: Let's turn now to Donald. 3 4 Thank you so much. MR. SCARINCI: You know, I jumped out of my skin when I see five people on -- 5 DR. BROWN: And you are? 6 MR. SCARINCI: Donald Scarinci, and, you 7 know, I jump out of my skin when I see five, 8 five people on any metallic object. 9 carry it because it's this is a this is a You could 10 medal, it's a three-inch thing. So, it could 11 work. 12 that you know, that they particular look like 13 they're going to a dance. 14 be wearing, you know, those scarves, and the 15 drawing, the drawing does make it -- I guess 16 the drawing does give you that impression, but 17 the drawing would not be the medal. 18 wouldn't discount, I wouldn't discount this 19 obverse. 20 too many words. 21 communicate a message, if it's paired, it's 22 really all about how it's paired. 23 paired with reverse five, you know, I, you 24 know, thank you, and really, Peter, you saved 25 the day on that. You know, I'm not so sure, you know, I mean, you wouldn't So, I I do think 1A, you know, it just has And, you know, while it does And if it's But if it's paired with, I do www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 161 1 kind of, I do kind of like this the way, the 2 way the Mint will ultimately do it. 3 I think they'll create texture. 4 know, you know, what Joe would have in his mind 5 with this, you know, it could be made to look, 6 you know, like a very contemporary medal if we 7 could, you know, have relief and texture on 8 the, you know, on the riveted panels. 9 know, they could even be a little higher, a You know, You know, I You 10 little lower, you know, and the silhouettes, 11 you know, really is somewhat profound, you 12 know, in terms of, you know, thinking about the 13 casualties of that war. 14 some depth of meaning there. 15 with, if we went with the five reverse, you 16 could, you could go with the obverse that has a 17 lot of words, right? 18 communicate. 19 Congress in there somewhere and you could put 20 it in the reverse. 21 reverse yet, but, so I could live with the one 22 with the words if you pair it with reverse 23 five. 24 going to come down to the pairings, you know, 25 and clearly we're looking at one of the So, you know, there is And if we went And the words then will You would have to put act of I'm not sure it's in the If not, you know, I think this is really www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 162 1 obverses that, you know, has a lot of people in 2 it and, you know so, you know, a reverse, 3 reverse seven to me, you know does look, I'm 4 sorry obverse seven, I would caution that one. 5 I'm sure legal has vetted that to see there's 6 no, that I mean because it does look like a 7 photograph, and the fear is maybe it is a 8 photograph. Right. 9 like a photograph that, you know, and I would 10 commend the artist whole heatedly if that was 11 not drawn from a photograph and that's that is 12 compelling. 13 it's safe, if legal determines it to be safe. 14 So, you know, I see the merits in that. 15 more, you know, it's more kind of how they 16 would look. 17 But so, I'm kind of open on this. 18 do think, I do think the reverse with the 19 correction on the plane would be will be a nice 20 one. 21 that's the one. 22 You know that interesting, but just not it's 23 not as compelling as the other reverse. 24 25 So, you know, it does look If it was not drawn, you know, if That's I mean, you know, I would think. You know, I The other one is supposed to, so yeah, DR. BROWN: appreciate that. The other one is reverse 07. Thank you so much. We Let's turn now to Sam Gill. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 163 1 MR. GILL: Thank you. I'm Sam Gill. Thank you, Mr. 2 Chairman. Just starting from 3 the beginning here obverse one, clearly that 4 would make it very, very, very pretty medal. 5 It's spaced beautifully. 6 well-defined. 7 I think people would enjoy looking at that. 8 think I agree with Mary that 01 obverse 01A is 9 too busy with wording. The faces are all They look like real people, and I Number six, I liked 10 only from the standpoint that these depicts 11 individuals and after all, at the end of the 12 day, they were all individuals that got 13 together and they all went home to some place, 14 and all had relatives or friends in the service 15 some place, and it and it shows them in these 16 gears. 17 or B, I liked, one little thing here I liked 18 the V for victory, and then the American flag 19 right beneath it. 20 there, that was just kind of nice. 21 reverse side, I liked 03 It still gives a 22 silhouette, but actually it gives, I like the 23 silhouettes very much in this, including, and 24 the way it includes the people. 25 like a very interesting, nice design. So, I like that. In number eight, 8A A little bit of detail www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 On the It just seems I could Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 164 1 live with 05, but 03 tells the story for me. 2 That's it. 3 4 Thank you. DR. BROWN: Thank you. Let's turn to Dr. Fuller. 5 DR. FULLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 6 These were all very compelling designs. There 7 are lots of great designs in here. 8 go to one and 1 and 1A. 9 is the case for me, but I like the, I like the, If we could I'm not sure why this 10 the women looking to the right, and not to the 11 left. 12 Maybe Joe can tell me why I think like that. 13 I'm not sure. 14 Joe when I'm done, please. 15 put on my film hat. 16 me. 17 don't think we need to say women from different 18 races because we can clearly see. 19 make that adjustment, but I do like 1A in that 20 sense. 21 and having the women in the gears, because it, 22 when I, when I see that, it tells me okay 23 because I'm thinking about how the public might 24 see it. 25 something to do with mechanics, you know, I think symbolically means something. And that's actually a question, On 1Aa, if I can Show me not the don't tell But we see that it's a diverse group. I like six. I So, I would I really like the gears Okay, that tells me that it has www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 165 1 mechanical, something like that, you know? The 2 one that I really like is nine. 3 something aesthetically pleasing about that, if 4 I may use the word. 5 know, we're going to war. 6 here. 7 And I if I may also, I wanted to ask Joe, if I 8 may as well, is this, is this an identifiable 9 tradition? There is just It looks menacing, you You know, it's we're You know, we're doing the nation's work. I'm, I'm referring to the -- what 10 is this style that artistry. I'm curious to 11 know if it's some artistic tradition, and it 12 has a name or something, but it's really 13 they're holding up the Air Force? 14 very compelling to me. 15 votes. 16 like one because, you know, on the obverse, if 17 we have five women, you can't really focus on 18 any one person. 19 really stop and think that these were 20 individuals. 21 and I also like the rivets and, you know, the 22 texture and also the war machinery, if you will 23 give the background on that. 24 and five because of the silhouettes and, you 25 know, three has the women. It's just That'll get most of my If I may turn to the reverse, I like, I But in one, in R1 you get to You can focus on the individual, I do like three And so, it's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 166 1 showing what they're working on, even though 2 that would depend on what we choose for the 3 obverse. 4 5 6 And, that's it. DR. BROWN: Thank you. Thank you very much. Let's turn to Robin. MS. SALMAN: This is Robin Salman. On the 7 obverse, there's are so many wonderful designs 8 to choose from. 9 like a variety of them for a variety of It makes it very difficult. I 10 reasons, but I've settled on seven as my first 11 choice for the obverse, because it does show 12 the women. 13 it's almost like a photographer came in, and 14 said let me take your picture. 15 pausing. 16 some of the designs was trying to make sure, 17 that all the wording was on one, one side or 18 the other as it needed to be. 19 design does solve that with act of Congress 20 2020, along with the theme "Rosie the Riveter", 21 and then for the reverse, I was drawn to three 22 and five for all of the reasons that and 23 previously stated. 24 at work and their various activities, and it 25 has the phrase honoring the women who helped I think Mike was the one who said Momentarily And another issue is that I had with So, this, this Three then shows the women www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 167 1 win World War II. If that one who is chosen 2 along with obverse seven, then one side would 3 have to do without act of congress, but the 4 dates 1942, 1945 could be substituted. 5 with number five, I liked it because of the 6 simplicity. 7 and tank, the dates, women working for victory. 8 All of it spoke to me exactly what I think this 9 is all about. There The silhouetted plane, and ship And then the background being 10 the metal plates. 11 getting the point across of how important this 12 work was to the country and the world, in fact, 13 during World War two. 14 three or reverse five, I think would work 15 beautifully. 16 designs. 17 portfolio trying to make a decision, and I 18 think you can tell. 19 20 21 Very simple, but definitely So, I'm either a reverse There are many other wonderful I have a hard time with this DR. BROWN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, turning to Mr. Tucker? MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. This 22 is Dennis Tucker, and Robin, I have to echo 23 your sentiment. 24 to the artists for making our job so difficult. 25 This is a great portfolio, and it's nice to see April, Megan, Joe, thank you www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 168 1 so many wonderful designs. Sometimes we talk 2 about congressional gold medals, and we look at 3 the obverse and reverse, and we talk about the 4 obverse being the verb, the active side and 5 letting the reverse, you know, so the obverse 6 will be where we show action. 7 with movement and doing what they do, and what 8 they did to deserve this honor, and then on the 9 reverse, we show more verbiage, and that's We show people 10 where we have the noun of the medal contrasted 11 to the verb. 12 Robin mentioned, we need to kind of carefully 13 balance the obverse as the reverses, make sure 14 that we're showing all of the text that we need 15 to show, and not leaving anything out by 16 mismatching designs. 17 on two potential combinations of obverse and 18 reverse. 19 is a little bit wordier than we normally do on 20 an obverse. 21 balanced. 22 and it's just nicely done. 23 especially nicely done on a three-inch format. 24 And so, we would combine obverse 1A with 25 reverse one. In this case, I think and as So, I would like to focus One would be obverse 1A, which yes, But I think this text is well It has some contrast in the weights And this would be Reverse one, Mary that's an www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 169 1 interesting observation about the hex wrench 2 versus the rivet, but I think, I don't think 3 that will bother too many people, because if 4 you're in a garage, if you're, if you're 5 picking things up, tools and devices and 6 things, you could conceivably maybe not so much 7 of a production line in a factory where you're, 8 you're regimented in what you're doing, but you 9 would have all of this equipment at your 10 disposal, and plus, there's artistic license to 11 be thought of. 12 MS. SALMON: Not the right rivet, Dennis. 13 MR. TUCKER: That distinction there, but I 14 like that combination of obverse 1A and reverse 15 1, and I think that it gets the verbiage in, 16 and it gets the design in, the design elements 17 that tell the story. 18 would be obverse one, which has pretty much the 19 same theme as 1A but less wording. 20 not crowded with as much text, and combine that 21 with the reverse 2 or reverse 2A. 22 I love this illustration. 23 make a wonderful medal, and I like the entirety 24 of this medal, because it has a potential to be 25 a metal that you really spend a lot of time. The other combination So, it's I love the, I think it would www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 170 1 You know, you're looking at it and studying, 2 and seeing all of this detail. 3 be my, that would be my recommendation, either 4 obverse 1A and reverse 1, or obverse 1 and 5 reverse 2 or 2A. 6 7 8 9 DR. BROWN: So that would Thank you. Thank you. We turn now to Dean. MR. KOTLOWSKI: Chairman. Thank you very much, Mr. I have to begin by acknowledging 10 the, this is Dean Kotlowski. I would like to 11 begin by giving the liaisons, and thank you for 12 your comments and in particular, Ms. Gold. 13 glad you keep the memory of your mother alive 14 and her contributions. 15 "Rosie the Riveter". 16 me, as well as an academic, I did a Paul McNutt 17 who was head of what was called the War 18 Manpower Commission in World War II. 19 responsible for recruiting women to the war 20 industry, and he had a transformation that I 21 can't go into now, but that's what they called 22 it back then manpower, not human resources. 23 So, it's interesting. 24 we had a set of designs that were difficult 25 because there, we had trouble finding something I'm My grandmother was a So, this is personal for That was I also want to say that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 171 1 that appealed to us. And here so much appeals 2 to me and there's so much to choose from. 3 Thank you for the preferences that you've 4 outlined. 5 up here too much. 6 against some designs to think about. 7 and 1A, I prefer one for the reasons that have 8 been stated. 9 Yes, they're facing left. I'm not going to try to match things I'm going to argue for and Between 1 It's cleaner, it's more simple. I tried to come up 10 with a historical reason why I liked that, and 11 I decided this privilege is one part of the 12 country over the others. 13 Coast was very important to Seattle, and the 14 airplane Industry, and a lot of Americans moved 15 around during the war and moved all over the 16 country, not just West, but the fact that they 17 were looking west, I think that that is 18 important. 19 have 1942 to 1945, to give us something of a 20 re-periodization of WW II, and how the war 21 meant different things, and it begin 22 differently, some groups in the United States 23 than others. 24 important, 1A it's just too much words. 25 just too busy. You know, the West I also think it is very good to At least in one aspect that's It's I would be very happy, or I'd www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 172 1 be reasonably happy with Mary's choice of 2 number four. 3 Nobody said anything about obverse five yet, 4 and what I see here is strength, determination, 5 unity and working in unison. 6 of peoples, and races and ethnicities has been 7 discussed, but I also see different diversity 8 of occupations with the headgear and the tools. 9 So, I found that very compelling. I really like number five. I see diversity I really 10 don't care very much for number six, but I want 11 to give a shout out to it. 12 some of these earlier gendered cameos and 13 little portraits of women, and the gears are 14 kind of interesting as to how those gender 15 roles were changing. 16 about 8A or 8B. 17 much, maybe some of the other designs, but 18 again, I'd be very happy (unintelligible) 19 reverses. 20 for me. 21 and metaphor here that works very well, and 22 again, this is reverse three. 23 activity. 24 size that we obviously have on a ship, but it 25 doesn't matter. It reminds me of Nobody has said very much I like all of them, not as I did like three, three stood out I think there's an element of reality I like the I know that those rivets are not the I mean, it's metaphor, it's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 173 1 symbolism, and the activity really was 2 inspiring, and it worked for me, 2 and 2A 3 somebody mentioned a magazine cover for a 4 "Rosie the Riveter", and I think that was, I'm 5 pretty sure that was the Saturday Evening Post. 6 I don't mind this one. 7 one very much at all. 8 reverse number one. 9 only one who thinks this way. Yeah, I don't mind this But I really don't like I think and I may be the I think it 10 subverts the diversity message of the obverse 11 that we're trying to go for, by focusing on one 12 individual, we could assume she's representing 13 one racial or ethnic group. 14 thing two, that she's about in terms of the 15 image, it's almost about the same size or so, 16 of some of the faces on the other side of the 17 of the medal. And the other thing is she's 18 very passive. She's just sort of looking at 19 something. 20 in the background, and it just doesn't really 21 come together for me. 22 go with one, or four or five for the obverse, 23 this is maybe just too much of the face for the 24 reverse. 25 committee for pointing out number five. And the other And then we have the end products And if you're going to And my final comment is thanks to the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 174 1 think that there's real artistry in number five 2 about the end product. 3 talked about the panels and the rivets. 4 maybe if I can do one last comment, this is not 5 something I'm going to advocate, but there was 6 something, it's a little bland, but there was 7 something about number ten that appealed to me, 8 just the American flag and the bandana, and the 9 way that was, the way that came out. And I think Robin And I 10 wouldn't advocate for it, but I just wanted to 11 just give a shout out to the artist. 12 very much. 13 14 DR. BROWN: Thank you. Thank you Let's turn now to Peter. 15 MR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 16 This is Peter Van Alfen. 17 I have a rather strong aversion to these sort 18 of facing portraits, coins and medals, probably 19 because of the concern that either the 20 modeling, or the way that life may capture the 21 object could lead to some unintended, grotesque 22 expressions of those face in portraits and the 23 rest. 24 generally will be for profile portraits on 25 coins and medals, which is what I focus As many of you know, So, my preference always has been and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 175 1 primarily on obverse one, and 1A. I really 2 have a preference for 1 or 1A simply because I 3 find this a much, much stronger design with a 4 very strong diagonal element, and that diagonal 5 line bisecting between negative space and the 6 more filled space, as well as the simplicity of 7 the inscription there. 8 other that also picture profiles, I don't think 9 are as well balanced or as elegant. 1A and some of the So, my 10 preference for the obverse is number one. 11 Terms of the reverses, unlike Dean, I really do 12 like reverse one quite a bit. 13 this is actually a really rather strong design, 14 but and I, in fact, do like the focus on this 15 sort of contemplated individual featured here, 16 although like Dean I also have some concerns 17 about how the women are portrayed here might 18 subverts the diversity messaging in the overall 19 project. 20 rivet that she's holding, you know, that could 21 easily be changed to a hex bolt rather than a 22 rivet to address Mary's concerns, and I think 23 is appropriate. 24 like reverse number five as well. 25 this is also a rather strong design, and I do I think that In terms of little things like the Aside from one, I do quite www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I think that Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 176 1 like the incused elements of it then quite a 2 bit, as well as the paneling and the rivets and 3 so forth. 4 Thank you very much. 5 DR. BROWN: 6 MR. BERNSTEIN: So, that's what I have to say. Thank you. Turn now to Art? Hello, this is Art 7 Bernstein, and I want to echo Mary's comments 8 about the wrench and the rivet, but I'm going 9 to take it a step further. When I first looked 10 at this portfolio, I was focused on "Rosie the 11 Riveter", and then I saw a lot of designs that 12 had wrenches, and I'm thinking that that to me, 13 I found confusing, that if we're focusing on 14 "Rosie the Riveter", the tools should be 15 related to rivets. 16 things literally, and I was rejecting most of 17 the designs that had tools, that were not 18 related to riveting. 19 on the obverse side, I, I like the design 20 seven. 21 mentioned as well. 22 serious, and when you look at what they're 23 wearing, and what they're when you get the idea 24 of what they're holding, you get the idea of 25 what they're doing. So, I, I tend to take Now, to be more specific I think that Mike that was the one you To me they all look very The other, some of the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 177 1 other designs were more posed portraits, and 2 this looked like they just came off the line. 3 They were sort of dirty, and tired, and they 4 worked hard. 5 I also liked design number 8, 8 and 8A, both of 6 which had a lot of other accouterments related 7 to World War II. 8 win, and I appreciated all the other slogans 9 that went with that design. And I'm attracted to that design. The V for Victory and we will Going to the 10 reverses, I liked reverse one. What attracted 11 me to that design was the, if we get rid of the 12 wrench problem or the rivet problem, it shows 13 the things that people built. 14 appreciated the rivets around the edge again, 15 focusing on the riveting and in reverse three, 16 we see the women hard at work. 17 Riveter" is hard at work, and I thought it was 18 pretty clever, and I don't think anyone's 19 mentioned this, or maybe April mentioned that, 20 that one of the women is riveting the design on 21 metal itself. 22 very clever element. 23 DR. BROWN: And I "Rosie the And I just thought that was a Thank you. Thank you so much. I too must 24 add my compliments to the artists. 25 phenomenal portfolio, and I applaud the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 This was a Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 178 1 comments of my colleagues on the committee. 2 They had great comments, and I must confess, I 3 probably would be happy with any of these, 4 quite frankly. 5 your effort to, in fact, combine, because I 6 think there is some merit to making sure that 7 there is some synchrony between the obverse and 8 the reverse. 9 well, probably throw most of my points on the And I really applaud, Dennis, Having said that, I can probably 10 obverse to either 1A or 1, because I think they 11 have benefits. 12 probably need to do some reduction of words 13 there, in order to make that even more 14 readable. 15 probably would lean in the direction of five or 16 three. 17 I agree with Mary, 1A we With respect to the reverse, I So, based on that are there, Mary? MS. LANNIN: I did, this is Mary Lannin. 18 I just had a question. I'm looking at number 19 three, which I think is very clever, is it 20 asking a lot for the artist to change, I have a 21 wrench thing I guess. 22 wrench in her hands, it would be really cool if 23 it was actually wrenching into place the last 24 rivet, on the boat, or ship or whatever it's 25 called. The woman with the I think because you see somebody www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 179 1 actually welding, you can imagine, you know, 2 the plane has many, many rivets on the wings, 3 as we've often seen. 4 be to put that rivet into place, with the woman 5 with the wrench in her hand. 6 Joe? 7 8 9 10 MR. MENNA: But the real effort would Can that be done, Sure, the rivets would have to be made much smaller, same size as the -MS. LANNIN: No, I didn't mean to have would be smaller. 11 MR. MENNA: 12 MS. LANNIN: 13 MR. MENNA: Not rivet I mean the bolts. Yeah. Oh, you mean the rivet or the 14 bolts, I'm sorry? 15 bolts, or the riveter with the rivets? 16 17 You mean the wrench with the MS. LANNIN: be bigger. I think that the wrench could It's just a thought. 18 MR. MENNA: Absolutely. 19 DR. BROWN: Donald? 20 MR. SCARINCI: Just two points I wanted to 21 make for the record. 22 this, I don't want the artist to not think we 23 got it. 24 think it was reverse nine. 25 So, when the artist reads On number nine, reverse in nine, I DR. BROWN: Little louder, Donald. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 180 1 MR. SCARINCI: Obverse nine. Harcourt 2 raised a question about obverse nine, you know, 3 that is, I think what the artist was trying, 4 was doing is creating, creating a medal that 5 would be very similar in style to medals of the 6 period. 7 an art deco-ishness to it, and, you know, and 8 things like how rewind would have, would have, 9 would have done that you see all over New York You know, kind of, you know, there's 10 and Miami and Bar Belsky (ph), you know, so I 11 think that's what the artist was going for here 12 was going through a period of, look, you know, 13 just that's was happening. 14 there's a lot of nice designs here. 15 agree, and I think the challenge that we're 16 going to now have, you know, that kind of hit 17 me in beginning is, we need to pair the obverse 18 with the reverse. 19 little challenging here. 20 decide on the obverse, we may want to see how 21 that pairs with the reverse we selected, maybe 22 have a revote or something if it doesn't match, 23 because I'm hearing a lot of, a lot of 24 preferences, and we are, and there is really an 25 opportunity here to convey a message. There's a lot, I also And that's going to be a So, after we vote and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So, we Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 181 1 either go with an explanation on the obverse or 2 the reverse, but either one of them has to have 3 it. 4 might want to consider the revote to the 5 obverse first, I have no idea, do the obverse 6 first or do both, and then look and see how 7 they match. So, depending on people's preferences, we 8 DR. BROWN: 9 DR. FULLER: Dr. Fuller? Thank you, Harcourt Fuller. 10 To Donald's point, I think if we go with an 11 obverse that has the five women, perhaps a 12 reverse, that either has one woman or no women 13 at all, so that it's not too crowded. 14 would let's say if we went with 1 or 1A, and 15 I'm not saying that that's what I'm going with, 16 but let's just say we went with 1 or 1A on the 17 obverse, then I think probably something like 18 is that five on the reverse? 19 think that would be a great balance. 20 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: 21 DR. BROWN: So, I Yeah, because I Yes, that's exactly. Ladies and gentlemen, right 22 here on the table, a couple of comments, but 23 before I do that, let me hear from Joe and Mike 24 to see if they have anything they would like to 25 add. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 182 1 MR. MENNA: This is Joe Menna. I just 2 have four background points, not for advocacy, 3 just for clarification. 4 Michelangelo figure that the one medal's 5 referring to, the woman seated on the chair, 6 that's actually referring to one of the agnuti 7 (ph) from the Sistine ceiling. 8 Rockwell's, Saturday Evening Post cover is 9 Isaiah from the Sistine Chapel ceiling. Number one, the Norman 10 They're completely different figures just for 11 your consideration, and a little art history 12 lesson there. 13 the rivet on reverse one, "Rosie the Riveter", 14 as we were, as it was told us, is a name 15 encompassing the entire group., the legions of 16 women and the different orders in which they 17 were called to service, and all the different 18 works that they performed. 19 symbolically holding, I think the artist's 20 intention was if you have the woman holding a 21 wrench, but symbolically looking at that rivet, 22 which is the symbol for the entire statement of 23 "Rosie the Riveter". 24 she's not considering that rivet as literal 25 rivet. In terms of the woman holding So, to have a woman So, she is considering, She's looking at what they are. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 You Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 183 1 know, that's the name of them, "Rosie the 2 Riveter". 3 artist intent, and I'm not the artist. 4 terms of the facing the direction, Dr. 5 Harcourt, Dr. 6 Dr. Jane James Fishburne. 7 out on the West Coast in L.A., and he's a 8 renaissance art medal expert. 9 came up the origins of the right and left That's my understanding of the In Fuller mentioned, we just had a We're in a museum That question 10 facing, and he pointed to the typical direction 11 of Caesar, the emperor on Roman coins, and the 12 model for the, Mary would know better than me, 13 the genesis of the alpha of the kind of art 14 that we make, particular congressional gold 15 medals, our Renaissance art medal started a 16 piece Anello (ph). 17 the right. 18 (unintelligible) director Rider's medal, he 19 wanted his left featured. 20 best side, but he was afraid that he would be 21 seen as a bad Republican, because he was facing 22 the left and not the right. 23 the style for number nine, I worked with that 24 artist for a little while now. 25 pension for liking kind of Byzantine, Eastern Those typically faced to An interesting side note is when He felt that was his And then lastly of They have a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 184 1 and African styles as opposed to Western 2 literal depiction. 3 stylization, modernist stylization that Donald 4 was talking about. 5 likes to work, literally, but that I don't know 6 that artists that well. 7 DR. BROWN: So very much in the kind of I know that artist never Thank you. Any of the 8 liaisons would like to add any comments based 9 on what they've heard thus far? 10 MR. WEINMAN: 11 good information. 12 DR. BROWN: 13 MR. TUCKER: 14 15 No, it's been all really Dennis? Dr. Brown, this is Dennis Tucker. MS. PRITCHARD: Hi, this is Sarah 16 Pritchard, and yeah, I really appreciate the 17 conversation and all the thought that was being 18 put into this. 19 eyes, and also just your job and what, you 20 know, the decisions need to be. 21 appreciating the reverse design of the three 22 women that are with the ship and the plane. 23 we can go and look at that because that that 24 does go to, with the women. 25 who's a welder. It really helps to open my I am really If There's one woman There there's been significant www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 185 1 discussion I'm sorry to the-- but it's one of 2 the other reverse designs that we've looked at. 3 You can go through it. 4 women, yeah, I really appreciated in particular 5 the -- this idea of like the women, the women 6 working. 7 cleaned up. 8 appreciated looking at that design from all of 9 the discussion. Keep going. Three I understand that they want to be So that that was really -- I And then for the front side, 10 you know, when I when I was asking for there 11 was the verbiage for honoring the women. 12 reverse actually does help it. 13 understand a lot of people felt like this 14 design that's showing right now was is too 15 crowded. 16 01A but 01. 17 also, the other I would say this one was good, 18 but there is also one that people said, oh, 19 these women are showing, there's another 20 design, the women showing diversity. 21 like standing at attention just sort of in a 22 military way. 23 This one, yeah. 24 this one as well in terms of the discussion. 25 And yeah, that's all I want to sort of pull This And I But there was but a number one not I think that came up, but there's They're If we can bring that one up. So, my eyes were opened for www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 186 1 out, and I know it's typical discussion. 2 you. 3 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Thank You can 4 sense the fun that we're having as a committee, 5 really appreciate that. 6 MS. PRITCHARD: 7 DR. BROWN: 8 9 Absolutely. I think, Dennis, you wanted to say something? MR. TUCKER: Yes. This is Dennis Tucker. 10 I was just going to say that maybe as a, as an 11 administrative way to kind of have a circle in 12 on a decision, if we could just use our normal 13 voting which is an informative tool, and not 14 necessarily a decision-making tool, but if we 15 could, if we arrive at some obverse that has a 16 great number of votes, and a reverse that has a 17 great number of votes, a majority of votes, and 18 if they work together, then that's our 19 recommendation, and if they don't, we tweak the 20 or kind of circle in on our answer, rather than 21 take the straight arrow through a motion, for 22 example. 23 24 25 DR. BROWN: Is there receptivity to that approach? MR. WEINMAN: Just as a point of order and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 187 1 the very purpose of the voting system. 2 not a voting system. 3 purpose in scoring is just to gauge interest. 4 That's why there's always a motion after that, 5 what you do with it. 6 information any way that you feel is 7 appropriate. It's a scoring. It's And the So yeah, use the It isn't necessarily a given. 8 (unintelligible) 9 DR. BROWN: I'm appreciative at the time 10 of the day, so I do understand that some level 11 of efficiency does make sense given where we 12 are. 13 suggestion that was offered by Dennis, then it 14 does make sense that we see you make sure that 15 at this time, that we begin the process of 16 scoring for the obverse and reverse candidates 17 designs for the Congressional Gold Medal for 18 women known as "Rosie the Riveter". 19 you has the scoresheet. 20 are participating virtually, you've received 21 that from Jennifer. 22 in five minutes? 23 24 25 But if there's no objection to the MR. WEINMAN: Each of For those of us who Can we reasonably do this I can't guarantee that, but we'll give it a shot. DR. BROWN: We will do as little as five www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 188 1 but as much as ten. 2 you come back. We stand adjourned until 3 (Thereupon, a break was taken, 4 and the proceeding continued as 5 follows:) 6 DR. BROWN: We are back, and I recognize 7 Greg Weinman, counsel for the CCAC, to present 8 the results from the scoring sheets. 9 MR. WEINMAN: 10 help you narrow a bit. 11 obverse again, out of a possible 33 points, 12 obverse one had twenty-four, making it the top 13 vote getter, obverse 1A had eleven, two had 14 three, three had three, four had eight, five 15 had six, six had seven, seven had twenty, so 16 that's number two, eight had nine, 8A had 17 eleven, 8B had six and nine had five. 18 onto the reverses. 19 points, two had nine, 2A had six, three had 20 twenty-six, making it the top vote getter, four 21 had six, 4A had eight, but then five had 22 twenty-four, so close, six had two, seven had 23 three, eight had three, nine had two, ten had 24 four. 25 DR. BROWN: Okay. I think this will Beginning with the Moving Reverse one had seventeen Thank you. Are there any www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 189 1 motions? 2 MR. WEINMAN: 3 DR. BROWN: I'm thinking. Can we display again, option 4 one, that's had votes, obverse, and obverse 5 seven that had twenty votes. 6 MR. WEINMAN: And by the way, as a point 7 of -- the question was asked earlier, I 8 confirmed, this is an original, this is not 9 from a photograph. 10 MR. MORAN: Oh, it is original. 11 DR. BROWN: Wow. 12 MR. SCARINCI: 13 I'll make a motion, Lawrence. 14 DR. BROWN: Please. 15 MR. SCARINCI: I'm going to move, and 16 we'll see what happens with this, that we 17 combine obverse seven with reverse five. 18 DR. BROWN: 19 MS. LANNIN: 20 21 22 23 24 25 Is there a second? Number two? I'm hearing number twos. MR. SCARINCI: These are two number twos. We're going to find out how this works. DR. BROWN: So, the motion is obverse seven with reverse five, correct? MR. SCARINCI: Yep. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 190 1 2 MR. BERNSTEIN: purpose of discussion. 3 4 5 6 MR. SCARINCI: DR. BROWN: Okay. 8 MR. TUCKER: 11 12 Tucker. Let's just call a vote. Mr. Chair, this is Dennis I would actually recommend that we propose several combinations. DR. BROWN: That's where I'm going with this exactly. 13 MR. TUCKER: 14 DR. BROWN: Okay. Watch me go through this. 15 have several motions. 16 MR. TUCKER: 17 So, the motion's up for discussion. MR. SCARINCI: 10 If you want to let it die -- 7 9 I'll second for the I Well, if that's what you're doing. 18 DR. BROWN: 19 MR. TUCKER: 20 DR. BROWN: That's what I'm doing. That's agreeable. And I just found out that the 21 two second place, there's (unintelligible) for 22 our seven match with our five. 23 second motion. 24 25 MR. SCARCINI: So, I'll make Hold on a second. motion has to be -www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 That Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 191 1 DR. BROWN: 2 MR. BERNSTEIN: 3 4 For one second. He's going to withdraw his motion, and I will withdraw my second. MR. MORAN: Okay, therefore, I will move 5 that we consider our one with reverse five. 6 Obverse one with reverse five. 7 8 9 10 11 DR. BROWN: Motion on the table. Is there a second? MS. LANNIN: DR. BROWN: I second. Okay. It's open for discussion. 12 MR. SCARCINI: 13 MR. VAN ALFEN: Let's vote. This is Peter Van Alfen. 14 Can I just ask a question that the audio was 15 cutting out a little bit there. 16 understanding is that there is only one motion 17 on the table at that moment, and that's to 18 combine obverse one with reverse five, is that 19 correct or are there two motions? 20 21 DR. BROWN: No, you're correct. The first motion was withdrawn. 22 MR. VAN ALFEN: 23 DR. BROWN: 24 MR. VAN ALFEN: 25 So, my Okay. Thank you. Any other further comments? While I'm still speaking, sorry, this is again, Peter Van Alfen, I would www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 192 1 support that motion. 2 DR. BROWN: Seeing no further 3 conversations on this motion, all those in 4 favor? 5 MR. VAN ALFEN: 6 DR. BROWN: Any nay? 7 MR. MORAN: No, I'm sorry. 8 DR. BROWN: Let's start over. 9 in favor, Aye? 10 EVERYONE: 11 DR. BROWN: 12 13 14 Keep your hands raised please? MS. WARREN: Was there anyone else? I think Robin said I as well, this is Jennifer, correct Robin? MS. SALMAN: 16 DR. BROWN: I did. Okay, six, okay. Any opposed? Any abstentions? 18 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: 19 MR. VAN ALFEN: 20 DR. BROWN: 21 All those Aye. One, two, three, four. 15 17 Aye. Abstain. Abstain. Two abstentions. We have four abstentions. 22 MR. MORAN: 23 abstain, right? You know that right, when you Okay. 24 MR. SCARCINI: 25 DR. BROWN: Yeah, motion carries. The motion carries. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Are there Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 193 1 any other motions? 2 MR. VAN ALFEN: So, again, sorry, this is 3 Peter Van Alfen, so my understanding is that 4 motion is carried, and therefore we are 5 recommending obverse one and reverse five, is 6 that correct? 7 DR. BROWN: 8 MR. VAN ALFEN: 9 That is correct, yes. Okay, then I will make a motion to amend the silhouette of the B17 from 10 the C or D model which was portrayed at the 11 moment to an E, F or G model which has a larger 12 vertical stabilizer and a longer nose, which 13 would be more accurate for production from 1942 14 onward. 15 DR. BROWN: 16 MR. SCARINCI: 17 Is there a second? I have a question. How the hell do you know that? 18 DR. BROWN: I said do we have a second? 19 MR. VAN ALFEN: I know this because I'm an 20 aviation nerd who has building models since I 21 was a boy. 22 23 24 25 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Dr. Brown, I'll second it. DR. BROWN: Okay, second. All those in favor, Aye? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 194 1 EVERYONE: 2 DR. BROWN: 3 4 Aye. Any objections? Any abstentions? Any nays? Motion carries. MR. BERNSTEIN: Hi, this is Art Bernstein. 5 I wonder, Mr. Chairman, should we involve 6 ourselves with the matter that April pointed 7 out concerning the hairnet on one of the -- 8 9 MS. STAFFORD: number 1. 10 MR. MORAN: 11 MR. BERNSTEIN: 12 I don't think it was a I think it was on 1 A. No, she's wearing a hairnet. 13 MR. WEINMAN: 14 DR. BROWN: 15 MR. WEINMAN: May I ask a question? Please. Unless I missed this, what 16 was the objection to the hairnet? 17 historically accurate or not? 18 MS. STAFFORD: Is it It's both accurate for her 19 to be wearing one, and it's, it would also be 20 accurate if she were not wearing one, so our 21 best understanding is that if you can go back 22 to one, that on both -- and 1A, the net makes 23 her hair, so I think someone may have used the 24 word like almost like a brain or some kind of 25 odd texture, and it kind of sets it apart in a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 195 1 way that is not necessary, and therefore, why 2 not? Why not remove that? 3 MS. SALMON: 4 DR. BROWN: 5 MS. SALMON: This is Robin Salmon. Robin? We don't have Act of Congress 6 2020 on either of these designs, and we need to 7 fix that. 8 MR. WEINMAN: 9 DR. BROWN: 10 desire to. Only if you want to. The answer is only if we It's not necessary. 11 MS. SALMON: 12 MR. WEINMAN: I thought it was required. There's not a legally 13 required inscription. 14 inscription, but it's not legally required. 15 16 DR. BROWN: It's a traditional That was from Greg Weinman, yes. 17 MS. SALMON: 18 MR. WEINMAN: Okay. But you certainly can make a 19 recommendation to include it on the medal if 20 you feel it's appropriate. 21 22 MS. SALMON: That's alright. If it's not necessary, then we don't need to add it. 23 DR. BROWN: 24 DR. FULLER: 25 DR. BROWN: Thank you. May I ask a question? You certainly may. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 196 1 DR. FULLER: 2 Harcourt Fuller. 3 necessary, would it be, would it be -- 4 MR. WEINMAN: 5 DR. FULLER: Even though -- this is Even though it may not be Desirable. Desirable, thank you, since 6 the words an Act of Congress carries a certain 7 weight, and is officially sanctioned? 8 question -- 9 MS. STAFFORD: It's a Typically, our liaisons 10 enjoy having that inscription on congressional 11 gold medals. 12 13 14 15 Would you say? MR. WEINMAN: We'll defer to our committee members. DR. BROWN: So, Joe, is this possible to add this between you and Mike? 16 MR. MENNA: Absolutely. 17 DR. BROWN: Say again? 18 MR. MENNA: Yes, sir. 19 MS. STAFFORD: 20 MR. MENNA: 21 MS. STAFFORD: 22 MR. MENNA: Put it under the tank, Joe. What? Put it under the tank. What this? Oh, sorry. We can 23 always juggle inscriptions around. 24 sometimes be more radical, but we'll always 25 find a way. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It may Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 197 1 2 MR. MORAN: Can we convey to the committee that Act of Congress needs to be there? 3 MR. MENNA: (Unintelligible) 4 MR. MORAN: Okay, I vote it's the sense of 5 the committee that Act of Congress should be 6 added on to either the obverse or reverse in 7 the least obtrusive manner. 8 DR. BROWN: 9 MR. BERNSTEIN: 10 DR. BROWN: 11 12 Is there a second? Art Bernstein, second. All those in favor, Aye? (Aye) DR. BROWN: Please forgive me, point of 13 order? 14 return, is there a discussion firsts on the 15 motion? 16 Excuse me point of order. Let me We have Dennis Tucker. MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. This 17 is Dennis Tucker. I would have -- I object to 18 the motion because we've never really 19 solidified any sort of rules around this kind 20 of language. 21 of saying that it's the sense of a committee, 22 that we give a strong recommendation for this 23 wording goes too far. And I think giving it the weight 24 MR. MORAN: What would you want? 25 DR. BROWN: Let me, wait. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 198 1 MR. TUCKER: I think, I think, I mean I 2 have made proposals in the past on, on 3 addressing this question. 4 right now to say one way or the other, this is 5 what we need, or this is what we don't need. 6 But I think if, but I will circulate what I've 7 written in the past. 8 have not either objected or asked for that 9 wording, then we just let the designs stand as I'm not prepared I think if the liaisons 10 they are, or give the Mint the option, April, 11 to go back to the liaisons, and have further 12 discussion with them, rather than making it a 13 sense of the committee statement. 14 DR. BROWN: Thank you for your comment. 15 Let's now turn to Dean. 16 motion. 17 MR. KOTLOWSKI: He has a point on the Right. It was just an 18 observation. When you pair both of these, when 19 you pair the obverse, and the reverse together, 20 on each side, you have the dates, 1942 to 1945. 21 And I'm just, I'm not trying to make a specific 22 recommendation because that's beyond my 23 capacity to do. 24 here, so I wouldn't mess with it, but I'm 25 wondering on the obverse, if the design team I think it's nicely balanced www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 199 1 might want to take a look at that, and see 2 maybe we don't need 1942 to 45, and maybe Act 3 of Congress can be put there. 4 reiterate, I want to leave this to the design 5 team. 6 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much, Dean. 7 have a motion on the table. 8 discussion on the motion? 9 10 MR. MORAN: We Any further Is the is the motion amended to allow the Mint staff -- 11 12 But let me DR. BROWN: No. That was not accepted by -- 13 MR. SCARINCI: How about an amendment to 14 get that done, because I don't want to be in a 15 position dictating things like this. 16 DR. BROWN: So, for the record, let's make 17 sure we have the motion on table as it is now, 18 but you accept it as an amendment, so you're 19 the maker of the motion, correct? 20 21 22 23 MR. SCARINCI: How about if I just change it? DR. BROWN: Okay. So, for the record, let's make sure we know what we are voting on. 24 MR. SCARCINI: 25 MR. TUCKER: Okay. State the motion. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 200 1 MR. SCARCINI: I move that the Mint Design 2 Committee, resolve for themselves whether to 3 add Act of Congress or not to the medal 4 wherever they see fit. 5 6 DR. BROWN: Is there a second to this amendment? 7 DR. FULLER: 8 MR. KOTLOWKI: 9 I second this. Dean Kotlowski, I second this. 10 DR. BROWN: Dean, okay, second. Any 11 further discussion on the amended motion? 12 Hearing none, seeing none, all those in favor, 13 Aye? 14 (Aye) 15 DR. BROWN: Any nays? 16 MR. MORAN: I got one more question on 17 Any abstentions. this thing and we'll let this die. Joe? 18 MR. MENNA: Yes, sir. 19 DR. BROWN: So, the motion passes. 20 MR. MORAN: You going to do 1942, 1945 on 21 both sides? 22 sides? 23 You going to leave 1942, 45 both MR. MENNA: This is Joe Menna. This is 24 not a dodge in any way, shape, or form. 25 is very finely balanced as it is. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 This So, it would Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 201 1 have to be really carefully considered. 2 even thinking about like, you know, popping it 3 in between "Rosie the Riveter". 4 kinds of different ways that we can address 5 this. 6 tip it over (unintelligible). There's all So, figure out a way where it doesn't 7 DR. BROWN: 8 MR. BERNSTEIN: 9 DR. BROWN: 10 I was Question, comment? I have a motion. Please. MR. BERNSTEIN: I'd like make the same 11 motion that Mike made with regard to the hair 12 net, that we leave it to the Mint Design 13 Committee to consider whether or not the 14 hairnet should be removed. 15 DR. BROWN: Is there a second? 16 discussion on the motion? 17 those in favor, Aye? 18 Seeing none, all (Aye) 19 DR. BROWN: 20 motion carries. 21 matter? 22 Any Oppose? Abstentions? The Any further motions on this If all discussion has concluded, then we 23 want to give our thanks to Mae Krier, Lori 24 Gould and Sarah Pritchard for joining us today. 25 We really are thankful for your contributions www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 202 1 to this matter. As a reminder to our members 2 and to the public, we are not reviewing the 3 candidate designs for the Harlem Hell Fighters 4 today. 5 business for today. 6 attendance of the public, the media, the Mint 7 staff and CCAC members at this meeting. 8 want to express special appreciation to those 9 who have written to the CCAC, asking questions Therefore, this concludes the order of I appreciate your I also 10 or making recommendations. 11 important in the deliberations of the CCAC. 12 there are no further business to come before 13 this committee, I will entertain a motion to 14 adjourn. 15 MS. STAFFORD: 16 MR. BERNSTEIN: 17 DR. BROWN: 18 19 This is especially If So, moved. Art Bernstein seconds. Okay, all those in favor, Aye? (Aye) DR. BROWN: All those nay? In the opinion 20 of the chair, the aye's have it, and the 21 meeting is adjourned. 22 tentatively scheduled for November 15, 2022. 23 The next meeting will take place virtually as 24 the agenda is limited to approving the minutes 25 and letters to the secretary from this meeting, The next meeting is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 203 1 and to review the fiscal year 2022 annual 2 report. 3 safe. 4 (Thereupon, the proceeding was concluded) Thank you dear sir, dear, ma'am. Be We look forward to seeing you next time. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 204 1 CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC 2 3 I, TIMOTHY GUEVARA, the officer before whom 4 The foregoing proceedings were taken, do hereby 5 certify that any witness(es) in the foregoing 6 proceedings, prior to testifying, were duly sworn; 7 that the proceedings were recorded by me and 8 thereafter reduced to typewriting by a qualified 9 transcriptionist; that said digital audio recording 10 of said proceedings are a true and accurate record 11 to the best of my knowledge, skills, and ability; 12 that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor 13 employed by any of the parties to the action in 14 which this was taken; and, further, that I am not a 15 relative or employee of any counsel or attorney 16 employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or 17 otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. 18 19 20 21 <%28166,Signature%> 22 TIMOTHY GUEVARA 23 Notary Public in and for the Florida 24 25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting September 27, 2022 Page 205 1 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER 2 3 I, CHARITY RIVERA-GARCIA, do hereby 4 Certify that this transcript was prepared from 5 the digital audio recording of the foregoing 6 proceeding, that said transcript is a true and 7 accurate record of the proceedings to the best 8 of my knowledge, skills, and ability; that I am 9 neither counsel for, related to, nor employed 10 by any of the parties to the action in which 11 this was taken; and, further, that I am not a 12 relative or employee of any counsel or attorney 13 employed by the parties hereto, nor financially 14 or otherwise interested in the outcome of this 15 action. 16 17 18 19 <%17391,Signature%> 20 CHARITY RIVERA-GARCIA 21 22 23 24 25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting [01 - 3a] September 27, 2022 Page 1 0 01 65:23 66:6 163:8 185:16 01a 163:8 185:16 02a 66:7 03 163:21 164:1 05 140:6 164:1 06 63:22 07 162:21 08 85:21 1 1 5:24 14:1 46:24 73:23 90:19 91:14 93:6 101:10 117:24 158:14 158:15 164:8 169:15 170:4,4 171:6 175:2 178:10 181:14 181:16 194:9,10 10 91:2,17 100 116:22 11 10:10 23:13 31:3,20 32:5 38:10 115-197 47:3 116-195 135:6 116-208 18:13 12 91:17 135,000 53:4 14 5:20 17:14 18:18 48:9 50:25 51:5 91:14 15 91:16 202:22 16 136:6 151:21 17 51:7 147:1,14 148:1,12 149:2 149:8,23 150:19 150:23 151:2,21 17391 205:19 1776 10:3 17s 151:1 157:22 18 18:20 151:18 151:23 1848 11:12 1897 93:20 1908 98:20 108:15 1941 136:11 1942 135:21 143:24 147:3,19 148:7,23 149:7 150:5 167:4 171:19 193:13 198:20 199:2 200:20,21 1944 136:12 1945 143:24 147:4,19 148:7 148:23 149:7 150:5 167:4 171:19 198:20 200:20 1948 119:20 1950s 113:15 123:20 1954 119:23 1962 48:10 52:8 52:24 1968 11:16 1970s 19:24 1979 18:19 20:16 1980 53:2 155:7 1981 13:9 1983 20:16 1984 19:3 1985 49:10 53:6 1986 11:20 19:8 20:13 1988 53:11 1989 19:14 20:13,16 1990 19:18 20:13 1996 11:21 52:18 1998 119:20 19th 86:16 87:6 87:7 1:15 133:17,22 1a 117:24 138:8 143:19,25 144:6 158:14,16 160:19 164:8,19 168:18,24 169:14,19 170:4 171:7,24 175:1 175:2,7 178:10 178:11 181:14 181:16 188:13 194:22 1a1 156:14 1aa 164:14 2 2 147:24 169:21 170:5 173:2 20 13:17,17 2000 94:16 2001 10:10 13:5 13:9 2008 53:14 2012 13:3 2013 13:5 2016 13:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 2018 123:4 2019 11:24 54:16 2020 12:1 14:6 146:4,9 147:18 148:18,24 149:13,17 166:20 195:6 2021 50:20 2022 1:6 3:4 5:20 12:5 17:15 20:15 47:18 202:22 203:1 20220 1:12 2024 5:23 8:18 9:1 46:23 47:12 47:16,19 48:1 54:19 59:6 90:18 93:6 101:9 20th 93:13 22 19:21 2200 18:25 23 18:24 53:19 23rd 14:6 26 91:19 27 1:6 3:4 28166 204:21 2:58 1:7 2a 56:21 91:15 147:24 169:21 170:5 173:2 188:19 2b 57:5 2nd 1:11 3 33 45:19 91:13 188:11 3a 57:9,11 91:15 99:6 Meeting [3b - additional] 3b 57:9,14 73:23 73:23 74:3,14 78:7,8 91:16 99:6 4 4 91:18 148:20 40 48:16 45 199:2 200:21 4a 148:20,25 188:21 5 5 91:2,16 149:1 50 83:22 113:17 113:17 119:19 5350860 1:14 6 6 91:17 7 70 54:13 75th 11:25 79 20:19 7a 58:7,8 62:2 91:18 7b 58:7,11 91:18 8 8 74:4 91:19 140:4 146:10,17 177:5,5 801 1:10 83 20:19 86 52:14 89 20:19 8a 138:6 140:4,4 143:16 146:10 146:18 163:16 172:16 177:5 188:16 September 27, 2022 Page 2 8b 138:6 143:16 146:10,18 172:16 188:17 9 200:15 201:19 academic 86:17 170:16 accept 125:21 126:5 199:18 92 53:18 acceptance 5:18 94 11:22 accepted 49:10 95 33:13 199:11 96 54:16 access 136:16 99 50:21 accidents 156:25 9:00 1:7 accommodate 9th 1:10 49:16 60:12,14 a 60:24 a.m. 1:7 accompanied abbreviation 54:14 81:7,11 accomplish ability 204:11 19:24 148:4 205:8 accomplished able 14:7 51:20 146:2 69:16 87:5 accomplishes 88:24 107:18 59:18 112:23 122:3 accomplishment 124:14 152:10 15:8 159:6 accomplishme... abnormal 48:14 59:24 76:16 48:25 130:20 abroad 27:7 accouterments absolutely 70:9 177:6 70:25 76:13 accurate 193:13 88:4,9 108:21 194:17,18,20 130:6 131:4 204:10 205:7 140:11 143:5 achievements 179:18 186:6 128:23 196:16 acknowledge abstain 192:18 64:6 110:25 192:19,23 134:4 abstention 92:17 acknowledging 92:18 170:9 abstentions act 18:14 20:15 133:10 192:17 47:4,10 146:4,8 192:20,21 194:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 147:18,22 148:17,23 149:12,17 161:18 166:19 167:3 195:5 196:6 197:2,5 199:2 200:3 action 22:25 23:5,16 58:16 74:17,24 78:11 168:6 204:13,17 205:10,15 active 49:9 103:2 108:12 135:19 168:4 activist 18:16 activities 166:24 activity 172:23 173:1 actual 152:19 153:2 adams 10:21 add 54:24 55:2 64:4 90:4,6 98:24 125:19 130:3 177:24 181:25 184:8 195:22 196:15 200:3 added 197:6 addiction 81:22 addition 22:9 38:22 149:5 additional 27:25 41:16 44:9,12 64:3 65:15 72:25 85:6,18 126:4,7 146:3 149:12 Meeting [additionally - america's] additionally 3:24 27:19 65:9 104:14 156:2 address 59:19 61:22 175:22 201:4 addressed 9:15 addressing 198:3 adds 52:16 adjourn 202:14 adjourned 188:1 202:21 adjournment 91:3 adjust 63:25 71:17 adjustable 148:25 149:10 149:15 adjusted 49:16 55:25 101:24 adjustment 60:15 164:19 adjustments 66:19 78:3,5 89:10 administering 57:10 administrative 186:11 admit 109:11 admitted 51:7 adverse 89:21 advice 63:3 advise 43:6 advising 14:14 60:22 advisor 2:23 8:1 advisory 1:1 3:3 12:14 14:9 15:17 39:22 43:6 advocacy 27:4 27:11 49:10 182:2 advocate 142:3 174:5,10 advocating 53:22 62:19 aesthetically 95:18 165:3 aesthetics 102:18 afar 70:7 affairs 7:16 affect 52:7 affordable 136:16 afraid 183:20 african 51:13 105:6 114:14 120:2 128:1,2 128:11 142:9 184:1 age 18:18,20 48:9 50:20,25 52:14 54:16 83:22 151:11 158:25 159:8,10 aged 159:5 agency 27:3 agenda 3:11 5:15 12:4 17:12 202:24 ages 159:5 agnuti 182:6 agree 35:23 39:24 82:23 September 27, 2022 Page 3 83:25 112:8 113:10 116:22 119:8 123:18 163:8 178:11 180:15 agreeable 190:19 agreeing 119:10 agricultural 94:9,12,25 95:2 95:10,11 99:13 100:4 115:14 117:12 agriculturally 97:19 agriculture 93:16,22 95:12 110:12 ah 16:10 ahead 17:9 19:9 137:20,24 143:17 aimed 25:22 aims 148:12 air 165:13 aircraft 135:9 136:24 airplane 171:14 alabama 47:17 93:15 albeit 9:25 alexander 14:21 70:21 alfen 2:6 4:25 5:1 33:5,6 78:22 78:23 109:10,11 134:10 150:15 150:16,18 159:15 174:15 174:16 191:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 191:13,22,24,25 192:5,19 193:2 193:3,8,19 alike 159:13 alive 52:21 170:13 alleviated 44:2 allow 37:3 56:7 69:13 131:8 199:10 allowable 130:5 allowed 41:20 alluding 24:12 128:20 allusion 115:2 alpha 19:9 183:13 alright 104:8 195:21 alternated 93:24 amazing 22:22 ambassadors 151:20 amen 82:13 amend 125:24 125:24,25 193:9 amended 129:2 129:25 159:14 199:9 200:11 amendment 125:14,22,24 126:5 199:13,18 200:6 america 24:1 37:9 55:11 68:9 94:20 128:2 129:22,22 america's 127:20,21 Meeting [american - arc] american 2:3 4:10 5:23 8:19 9:2 11:20 13:6,7 13:11 14:1,1 19:11,14,23,25 22:15,20 23:1 27:6 29:1 37:6 40:9 42:11 46:23 47:4 48:5 51:13 54:19 59:6 67:16 75:24 90:18 93:6,14 96:18 101:10 105:6 114:14 116:16 116:20 120:2 128:1,11 129:12 130:17 131:7 142:9 145:12,24 150:4 163:18 174:8 americans 10:19 10:22 73:6 129:24 171:14 ammunition 135:10 136:25 amos 2:16 6:10 amount 129:5 amplitude 103:1 ana 13:10 ana's 13:12,16 13:18 analyze 39:17 anatomical 81:24 anatomically 79:25 anello 183:16 angled 22:21 September 27, 2022 Page 4 anne 2:20 8:24 50:7 annie 69:20 77:3 anniversary 11:25 announce 3:21 announced 11:19 annual 48:1 68:12,13 203:1 anson 91:24 answer 21:8 22:4 50:5 56:19 84:10,22 97:4 151:14,15 186:20 195:9 answering 84:18 anti 27:3 33:8 49:9 51:1 119:24 anybody 85:23 108:8 113:16 132:2 151:10 157:6 anyone's 177:18 anyway 86:22 apart 119:20 194:25 apollo 87:21 apologies 17:25 25:14 103:21 apologize 41:19 106:13 118:10 apparatus 60:19 62:7 appealed 171:1 174:7 appealing 157:4 159:14 appeals 171:1 appear 57:25 58:17 113:14 143:10 appeared 113:16 appears 46:13 56:24 57:2,12 57:15 58:3,15 89:14 99:18 111:10,25 140:16 appendectomy 19:17 appetite 41:8 applaud 28:23 40:21 177:25 178:4 applause 17:1 application 55:16 applied 94:8 appointed 13:2 appointment 12:2 appreciate 31:3 31:9 54:21 64:7 64:22 74:4 83:5 83:12 84:24 88:24 89:6 90:9 91:1 92:3 107:19 111:1 124:14,18 133:21 140:19 140:22 162:25 184:16 186:5 202:5 appreciated 77:9 177:8,14 185:4,8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 appreciating 184:21 appreciation 50:1 58:24 202:8 appreciative 187:9 approach 49:6 186:24 approaches 49:6 93:16 appropriate 25:8 40:15 101:3 144:25 175:23 187:7 195:20 appropriately 122:8 approval 5:19 17:13 approve 17:17 approved 18:5 47:14 approving 202:24 april 2:9 6:20 18:8 21:15 44:13 46:22 60:15 61:2 62:6 63:20 64:2,21 88:10 90:2 93:4 101:6 118:9 134:24 159:3 167:23 177:19 194:6 198:10 april's 67:8 111:20 arc 22:16,19,23 23:2,16 29:1 31:4 40:3 42:9 Meeting [arched - aye] arched 60:7 architectural 31:4 area 56:6 areas 140:10 argue 70:2 171:5 arm 24:25 149:22 armed 10:16 armor 136:24 army 10:16 arnzen 2:20 91:24 94:23 95:3,5 133:19 arrive 186:15 arrived 51:5 arrogant 83:2 arrow 186:21 arrows 100:10 108:25 113:22 art 17:18 36:6 52:17 54:7 59:8 59:9 60:2 66:7 80:16 82:23 92:9 98:18 101:17 110:22 134:11 176:5,6 180:7 182:11 183:8,13,15 194:4 197:9 202:16 arthur 2:6 5:3 30:23 31:1 80:17 110:23 articulated 89:23 129:21 artin 9:3 artist 34:19 35:12 97:3,4,14 101:21 106:14 September 27, 2022 Page 5 107:2 112:17 123:3 126:23 127:24 131:24 132:13,24 133:4 139:19 142:11 162:10 174:11 178:20 179:21 179:22 180:3,11 183:3,3,24 184:4 artist's 97:21 182:19 artistic 43:3 127:17,17,18 128:17 158:5,7 165:11 169:10 artistry 77:5,5 118:24 165:10 174:1 artists 34:25 39:5 40:19 108:23 121:19 128:5 131:9 167:24 177:24 184:6 arts 2:3 4:13 22:11 ascending 19:9 asclepius 58:12 asia 137:2 aside 175:23 asked 6:4 71:21 84:9 86:24 96:12 189:7 198:8 asking 27:21 54:3 65:11 104:16 137:21 154:8 178:20 185:10 202:9 aspect 95:1,2 171:23 aspects 64:18 asphalt 24:12 assistant 8:17 21:6 assisting 20:3 association 13:11 154:1 assume 53:9 173:12 assuming 46:6 158:3 assure 43:24 80:23 astronaut 87:22 athlete 18:16 athletes 20:4 21:25 27:6 atlantic 30:8 atop 149:5 attached 31:23 42:4,5 attack 10:8 attacks 48:17 attempt 122:9 attempting 19:24 attendance 202:6 attended 51:11 attending 6:15 attention 29:6 34:22 36:1 145:10 185:21 attire 145:8 146:7 attorney 2:23 7:25 70:3 204:15 205:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 attracted 177:4 177:10 attractive 31:6 33:23 34:1 79:9 attributed 100:19 attuned 84:6 audio 191:14 204:9 205:5 authentication 13:14 autograph 32:16 automatically 48:24 autumn 9:20,22 available 52:12 73:11 avenue 126:20 aversion 174:17 aviation 193:20 avid 33:6 avoid 132:4 awakened 129:13 award 12:15 14:10,11,18,19 15:5 awarded 23:6 awards 5:17 18:14 135:6 aware 6:5 131:23 143:13 awareness 139:25 140:15 aye 17:22,23 46:11,12 92:13 92:14 133:8,9 192:5,9,10 193:25 194:1 197:10,11 Meeting [aye - bike] 200:13,14 201:17,18 202:17,18 aye's 202:20 b b 147:14 148:1 148:12 149:2,8 149:23 150:19 150:23 151:1,2 157:22,22 163:17 b17 193:9 back 10:1 36:19 39:15 42:12 45:10 90:2 91:9 93:4 95:15,16 96:13 97:25 98:1,17 101:13 102:5,25 106:15 107:9 109:3 112:25 113:5 117:16,22 121:4 124:4 125:11 126:23 127:3 131:5 134:1 140:19 156:4 170:22 188:2,6 194:21 198:11 backdrop 149:21 150:4 background 22:19,21,24 23:12 29:3 48:4 57:23 93:11 135:5 145:13 149:3,16,24 165:23 167:9 173:20 182:2 backgrounds 132:16 September 27, 2022 Page 6 bad 183:21 baer 69:22 baffled 111:4 balance 75:18 80:11 168:13 181:19 balanced 168:21 175:9 198:23 200:25 bandana 144:21 150:3 174:8 bandanas 144:14 bank 51:14,22 banks 23:2 banner 56:5 59:16 99:23 bar 105:2 180:10 barriers 141:2 baruch 48:12 based 12:4 53:15 83:16 90:7 92:22 97:19 133:1 155:22 178:16 184:8 basketball 11:22 11:23 batch 122:5 battle 128:12 beaker 99:7 bear 17:4 beautiful 14:1 36:3 38:14 76:13 77:5 140:11 beautifully 155:7 163:5 167:15 beauty 131:19 becoming 19:10 beef 60:8 befitting 76:14 began 6:3 18:18 25:7 53:14 63:20 beginning 3:22 114:23 135:21 163:3 180:17 188:10 behalf 16:11 49:11 64:6,19 107:24 140:25 141:5 beings 54:9 belabor 34:12 believe 5:13 20:17 21:9 25:21 42:9 60:18 62:11 69:21 71:19 73:24 88:11 104:4 126:10 141:1 144:24 believed 48:16 53:25 believing 105:23 bell 70:21 bellows 145:12 belsky 180:10 beneath 24:8 163:19 beneficial 99:13 benefit 28:1 65:15 95:14 104:19 156:8 benefits 178:11 berkowitz 48:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 bernard 8:25 48:3,6 50:20 54:18 55:20 57:2,13,15,23 58:6,22 61:12 61:12 92:7 bernhardt 2:20 bernstein 2:6 5:3,4 17:18,18 30:24,25 31:1 59:9,10 61:1,15 61:18 80:17,18 92:9,9 110:23 110:23 134:12 176:6,7 190:1 191:2 194:4,4 194:11 197:9,9 201:8,10 202:16 202:16 best 26:19 28:24 52:18 80:8 107:4 118:3 121:17 183:20 194:21 204:11 205:7 better 54:4,15 75:12,18 83:8 95:19 109:23 132:3 136:16 183:12 beyond 49:4 120:24 198:22 bias 81:20 84:5 bicycle 22:25 24:3,14,19 31:23 bigger 179:17 bike 29:15,21 31:5 37:15 42:4 42:5,12 Meeting [biker - brown] biker 32:11 bikes 32:12 bin 122:6 binoculars 112:17 biography 77:7 birth 10:18 11:7 birthday 11:3 bisecting 175:5 bit 30:1,2,11 36:23 47:2 48:4 60:8 72:11,14 77:7 78:8 79:1 79:19 80:3 82:4 88:7 89:3 93:11 105:11,14,18 109:12 110:18 111:3 118:15,15 119:23 139:17 163:19 168:19 175:12 176:2 188:10 191:15 black 51:15 96:18 bland 78:5 174:6 bloc 123:7 blood 51:14,15 51:18,22 blossoms 100:8 blueprint 149:20 blunt 105:11 121:7 130:13 bluntly 105:9 bluntness 121:8 blush 102:1 board 107:10 124:4 boardwalk 87:11 September 27, 2022 Page 7 boat 178:24 bodied 152:11 body 52:15 81:25 129:10 bold 29:25 32:4 53:23 106:5,8,9 121:16 bolt 55:14 66:21 79:18 149:1 175:21 bolts 179:11,14 179:15 bomber 147:1 147:14 148:1,13 149:2,8,23 bombing 136:10 boneza 2:10 7:1 21:15 44:13 book 79:19 80:6 108:4 109:1 booker 93:20 113:18 120:3 boost 19:6 border 24:15,20 31:6 58:15 99:8 144:23 146:7 148:22 149:24 borer 2:17 7:4,5 boring 121:9 born 93:17 boss 21:17 70:1 botanic 11:21 bother 169:3 bothered 101:14 bothers 31:20 bottom 32:18 58:11 60:7 78:12 99:25 113:25 144:15 bound 131:25 boundaries 105:15 107:13 bounds 111:2 128:25 boy 193:21 brackets 23:9 brain 194:24 branch 94:8 brandon 2:17 6:11 break 17:3,6 45:2,7 91:5 123:16 133:23 188:3 breakaway 19:23 breakthrough 48:18 bridging 23:25 brief 132:8 bring 53:16 125:11 185:22 bringing 115:20 brings 78:2 british 11:8 broad 130:12 131:15 159:10 broader 98:13 brochures 99:15 bronze 14:20,22 15:1 41:5 brooklyn 10:23 brought 13:20 71:14 96:13 130:18 brown 2:2 3:2 3:23 4:9,12,15 4:18,21,24 5:2,5 5:8,11,11 6:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 6:20,23 7:1,4,6 7:8,10,13,19,22 7:25 8:4,7,10,17 8:24 11:3 12:20 16:11,25 17:11 17:19,21,24 25:3,11,14 26:22 30:22 31:16 33:3 34:5 35:3,5,8,18 36:13,22 38:7 39:6,12 40:17 40:18 41:23 42:20 43:13 44:7,12 45:5,10 46:5,13,22 50:12,17 59:3 61:23,25 63:4 63:10,11,17 64:1,21 66:14 67:11 69:7,24 70:10,12 71:11 72:24 73:2 74:5 74:11 75:2 76:5 78:20 80:15 81:14,15 84:20 85:9,13 86:6 87:25,25 88:10 88:13,17,22,23 90:15 91:8,20 91:23 92:1,11 92:15,18 101:6 102:15,21 103:6 103:6,17,19 104:8 107:16 109:9 110:21 112:2,3 113:7 114:4,7,11,18 114:21 116:7 118:6 119:21 Meeting [brown - carver's] 121:21,24 124:10,13,23 126:7,12,17 127:2,5,9 129:1 132:9 133:6,10 133:14 134:1,7 134:9,11,13,15 134:17,19,21,23 134:23 150:9,15 150:17 151:8 152:16 154:4,4 154:6,6,14,23 155:15,18,19 156:13 158:8,9 160:1,5 162:24 164:3 166:4 167:19 170:6 174:13 176:5 177:23 179:19 179:25 181:8,21 184:7,12,13 186:3,7,23 187:9,25 188:6 188:25 189:3,11 189:14,18,23 190:5,11,14,18 190:20 191:1,7 191:10,20,23 192:2,6,8,11,16 192:20,25 193:7 193:15,18,22,24 194:2,14 195:4 195:9,15,23,25 196:14,17 197:8 197:10,12,25 198:14 199:6,11 199:16,22 200:5 200:10,15,19 201:7,9,15,19 202:17,19 September 27, 2022 Page 8 bugged 31:24 building 11:18 52:22 151:1 193:20 built 60:11 113:2 136:24 147:16 151:7 177:13 bullion 14:2,16 bureau 13:14 burger 10:20 business 12:12 46:17 93:3 202:5,12 bust 85:22,25 86:1,1,17,20 98:14 116:25 busts 86:21 98:11,12 busy 36:5 78:8 81:3,3,4 108:20 163:9 171:25 byzantine 183:25 c c 150:19 151:4 157:22 193:10 cabinet 10:14 cacc 16:11 caesar 183:11 caked 120:14 call 3:2 4:6 8:11 46:10 117:23 134:2,5 138:15 141:1 152:4 153:15 154:18 190:7 called 6:17 33:12 48:14 109:1 139:15 153:4 155:7 159:22 170:17 170:21 178:25 182:17 calling 28:2 65:16 104:20 138:2 156:8 calmness 66:23 cameo 75:23 77:10 80:10 cameos 172:12 cameras 87:8 candidate 3:12 5:21,23 6:1 18:10 21:11 22:12 23:21 25:1 44:18 46:23 47:15,21 55:1,10 59:1 90:18 93:5 94:19 95:24 101:5 135:1 150:8 202:3 candidates 187:16 cannon 69:20 77:3 canteen 156:22 capacity 128:20 198:23 capture 174:20 captures 40:6 card 111:21 cardiac 48:11,21 52:4 cardiologist 48:5 51:23 81:22 cardiovascular 49:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 cardioverter 58:8,10,16 care 49:7 53:12 136:16 172:10 career 19:19 21:20 49:4 careful 132:5 carefully 168:12 201:1 caring 53:23 carried 98:9 193:4 carries 145:10 192:24,25 194:3 196:6 201:20 carry 141:8 144:2 158:21 160:9 cart 111:19,22 carter's 95:2 carver 93:11,12 93:18,21,23 94:13,16 95:10 96:2,7,16,20 99:10,13,18,22 100:11,15 101:19 104:2 106:6,15 107:3 108:5 111:8,12 112:21 115:17 116:23 117:6,10 118:20,21,21 119:7,18,22 127:12,13,25 129:7,7 carver's 94:1,7 99:11 100:3,5 100:20,23 103:24 109:24 115:24 119:13 Meeting [carver's - choose] 121:15 case 55:18 71:22 71:22 81:6 85:23 98:6 109:17 114:17 153:25 159:23 164:9 168:11 cases 61:5,6,7 110:13 cash 94:6 casually 147:12 casualties 136:13,14 156:24 161:13 caught 34:22 cause 21:16 causing 52:4 caution 82:25 83:1 162:4 ccac 2:2,12,13 2:13 3:9,18 4:3 4:4 5:13,17 6:5 6:15 7:17,23 8:7 9:20 12:2,3,6,8 13:3,21 14:5,8 14:11,12,23 15:2,4 16:19,22 16:22 17:16 26:23 28:17 40:23 41:15 44:24 45:11 64:7 91:10 124:6 188:7 202:7,9,11 ceiling 182:7,9 celebrated 11:2 celebrating 37:5 60:20 cent 113:17,17 September 27, 2022 Page 9 center 24:5,21 24:23 29:22 56:12 115:18 centers 99:22 136:20 central 58:8 century 86:16 87:6,7 93:13 ceramic 86:21 certain 11:13 79:22 158:15 196:6 certainly 27:8 36:9 41:23 56:9 61:22 68:12 74:22 103:22 132:9 156:6 159:6 195:18,25 certificate 14:20 204:1 205:1 certify 204:5 205:4 cfa 23:15 24:10 49:25 55:23 96:10 97:5 113:4 131:4 138:8 144:5,9 147:8,20 158:17 cfa's 23:21 97:13 97:21 147:20 cgm's 72:7 chain 24:19,22 29:15,21 31:5 chains 24:14 chair 12:8 38:9 39:8 50:11 75:4 78:19 85:5 92:5 116:9 118:4 124:13,17,19 126:9 167:18,21 182:5 190:8 197:16 202:20 chairman 25:1 28:9 30:12,21 33:5 35:20 36:12,25 40:16 65:21 71:11 73:3 74:9 76:4,7 76:8 78:22 101:4 104:25 109:10 113:9 114:6 118:8 132:8 163:2 164:5 170:9 174:15 194:5 chairperson 2:2 5:13 challenge 180:15 challenges 37:25 88:23 136:7 challenging 180:19 champion 20:20 21:18 24:15,21 24:24 29:23 32:19,24 championship 20:17 championships 18:20 19:20,21 chance 19:6 change 92:7 99:3 101:13 136:8 139:7 151:6 178:20 199:20 changed 139:16 175:21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 changing 54:2 93:16 172:15 chapel 182:9 chapter 12:6 character 87:13 87:17 charitable 21:20 charity 205:3,20 charm 158:15 chart 9:25 charter 94:16 cheating 21:25 27:1 cheek 33:14 chemistry 94:8 chemurgy 94:7 94:18 109:13 110:2,16 chest 48:24 chewing 11:11 chicken 80:4 chief 2:9,11 6:20 7:10 18:8 49:20 56:17 59:15 71:12,21 86:13 97:2,8 child 136:20,21 childcare 136:17 children 50:22 choice 25:17 34:8 35:11 38:11 43:10 116:5 166:11 172:1 choices 36:9 37:2 38:6 39:3 142:1 choose 81:4,5 166:2,8 171:2 Meeting [chose - commemorate] chose 103:4 chosen 31:14 105:20 159:24 167:1 christina 73:15 circle 186:11,20 circles 112:18 circling 140:19 circular 97:24 100:9 148:11 circulate 84:11 84:13 198:6 circulating 14:15 cited 94:24 citizens 1:1 3:3 12:14 14:9 15:17 73:6 city 13:8 civil 136:2 clarification 44:13 182:3 clarifications 90:1 clarifies 81:12 154:2 clarify 69:11 71:16 85:20 86:24 clarity 76:19 clark 69:22 class 135:21 classic 129:6 149:19 classical 54:7 58:13 clean 77:16 158:16 cleaned 185:7 September 27, 2022 Page 10 cleaner 171:8 cleanness 63:22 clear 26:13,19 42:2 79:12 83:8 111:25 121:17 131:1 142:25 clearing 120:5 clearly 28:3 32:18 40:25 62:7 132:6 161:25 163:3 164:18 clever 109:7 111:14 121:11 177:18,22 178:19 cleverly 123:6 clocking 146:14 close 11:2 25:19 26:8 30:12 34:8 63:8 112:10,11 188:22 closer 11:14 12:1 clutching 149:22 coast 171:13 183:7 cockpit 146:25 code 14:4 cog 33:13 coin 2:15,16 6:9 6:10 9:2 14:1 36:3 43:11 46:24 47:4 54:19 59:7 60:8 63:20 66:4 67:23,24 69:12 69:21 70:8 74:1 79:16 80:19 83:7 84:8 85:16 89:15 90:19 93:6 95:21 98:16 105:1 106:2,7 109:15 112:1,23 113:14 113:21 114:8,12 116:23 117:10 119:22,25 120:3 123:5,24 139:6 139:8,19 141:14 141:21 coin's 58:15 coinability 72:4 102:11,17 coinable 72:22 99:2 coinage 1:1 3:3 12:14 14:9,16 14:16 15:17 75:24 coins 5:24 11:21 13:6 15:10 16:5 47:6,13 55:11 76:22 77:4 84:16 97:25 105:5 116:18 122:24 123:4,7 123:7,11,11,21 140:8 174:18,25 183:11 colleague 82:11 83:25 108:9 colleagues 4:6 15:12 18:1 30:20 74:6 79:14 81:1 82:1 178:1 collect 32:14 64:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 collecting 152:8 collective 140:2 140:18 147:6 collectively 130:11 135:7 collector 76:21 84:6 129:3,5 colorado 13:12 colorful 130:9 columbia 47:9 columnist 13:15 combination 76:2 123:10 169:14,17 combinations 168:17 190:10 combine 168:24 169:20 178:5 189:17 191:18 combined 87:17 come 56:4 124:13,18 132:18 142:16 155:3,6 157:10 157:16 161:24 171:9 173:21 188:2 202:12 comeback 19:13 comes 34:11 57:20 comfortable 28:16 54:25 107:18 113:20 comic 79:19 80:6 coming 8:2,15 98:6,7 120:21 143:13 148:6 commemorate 68:10 Meeting [commemorating - conditions] commemorating 96:1 commemorative 67:23,24 113:17 120:3 123:20 129:6,19 commend 39:4 40:19 162:10 commended 34:25 comment 41:21 43:23 64:6 81:6 89:20 112:24 118:10 127:4 137:22 155:20 159:17 173:24 174:4 198:14 201:7 commentary 110:19 143:4 commented 75:9 comments 17:15 27:14,20,25 30:13,18,23 34:3 35:22 37:3 40:21 41:14,17 41:25 44:9,13 63:4,18 64:2 65:1,10,15 76:4 77:10 78:24 79:5 85:6,13,18 85:20 88:15 90:1,10 103:9 103:13,17 104:9 104:12,15,19 106:10 114:5,19 126:7 129:25 130:2,7 133:7 138:18 154:10 156:1,3,7 170:12 176:7 178:1,2 181:22 184:8 191:23 commercial 94:4 commercially 11:11 commission 22:11 170:18 commitment 20:5,7 54:15 75:10 committed 51:24 committee 1:1 3:4 12:13,14 13:22,24 14:10 15:18 21:8,11 25:5 28:13 37:1 39:14,22 43:6 44:17 45:6 46:7 50:18 55:7 56:19 59:5 60:3 60:22 62:17,20 62:21 63:18 73:5 76:17 81:20 85:16 88:1 90:17 95:4 101:7,8 103:4 103:10,18 104:9 105:17 107:15 107:20 114:9 124:16 126:25 130:8,19,21 131:3,19 140:23 150:11 154:24 173:25 178:1 186:4 196:12 197:1,5,21 198:13 200:2 201:13 202:13 September 27, 2022 Page 11 committee's 57:4,18 140:15 common 20:10 155:11 communicate 123:17 131:10 160:21 161:18 communicating 131:3 communication 2:24 8:5 communism 114:13 119:24 129:18 community 18:17 20:6 114:14 128:18 companies 151:18 compassion 52:18 compelling 43:4 70:25,25 158:5 162:12,23 164:6 165:14 172:9 compete 129:18 competed 19:2 24:13 competing 27:6 27:7 competition 18:24 complete 38:21 completed 19:18 45:13 140:7 completely 122:1 126:21 159:14 182:10 compliments 177:24 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 comply 56:1 components 127:18 composed 29:3 composition 58:4 112:13 compositionally 60:23 comprised 136:18 computers 17:4 141:24 conceivably 169:6 concept 67:14 93:9 96:22 101:2 concepts 47:12 47:14 109:13 concern 40:8 51:4 136:17 174:19 concerned 52:19 114:13 concerning 194:7 concerns 43:25 175:16,22 concise 26:12 concluded 46:10 46:16 92:23 93:1 133:16 201:22 203:4 concludes 25:1 59:1 101:4 150:7 202:4 concur 35:6,9 concurred 39:11 conditions 94:5 136:9 Meeting [conference - correctly] conference 1:2,8 1:11 56:18 conferring 71:12 confess 81:15 82:17,25 83:12 178:2 configuration 146:25 confirm 6:14 confirmed 100:21 189:8 conflict 50:3 conform 102:3 confusing 176:13 congratulate 28:19 congratulating 15:16 congress 10:12 20:15 68:10 146:4,9 147:18 147:22 148:17 148:23 149:13 149:17 161:19 166:19 167:3 195:5 196:6 197:2,5 199:3 200:3 congressional 3:14 5:21 6:2 8:12 9:6 14:3,16 18:11,13,14 20:24 25:6 34:11 35:25 39:14,18 43:10 44:19 135:2,6 150:12 168:2 183:14 187:17 September 27, 2022 Page 12 196:10 connected 53:12 153:7 connection 98:2 102:24 conner 21:6 25:22 connor 2:19 8:14 21:9,13 25:22,25 26:2 26:10,24 44:14 44:15 46:18,21 connotation 132:1 connotations 120:24 consequences 53:1 consider 9:17 70:4 71:23 98:13,14 106:3 124:6 128:16 131:14 147:21 154:8 181:4 191:5 201:13 consideration 41:7 57:5 60:25 64:24 96:14 103:20 104:10 108:23 111:3 134:25 154:11 155:21,24 182:11 considered 93:15 152:11 154:13 201:1 considering 25:19 182:23,24 consistently 15:6 consult 99:1 consulted 82:1 contain 47:24 99:9 contains 14:20 contemplated 175:15 contemporary 161:6 context 9:18 120:7 contiguous 44:1 97:16 continue 62:14 64:17 continued 17:7 45:8 52:13 91:6 133:24 188:4 continuing 16:18 contrary 124:17 contrast 168:21 contrasted 168:10 contributing 13:15 116:20 contribution 46:19 83:6,15 85:4 91:1 92:2 contributions 14:12 82:7,22 89:2,5 107:23 135:13 170:14 201:25 convened 97:2 convention 130:22 conversation 44:16 64:23 65:19 90:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 127:23 155:21 184:17 conversations 130:1,10 192:3 converting 55:17 convey 63:14 79:17 110:1,12 133:2 156:23 180:25 197:1 conveyed 80:12 convinced 93:21 125:8 convoy 112:15 112:19 cool 87:3 97:22 178:22 coolest 108:7 cooperation 48:11 copacetic 85:1 cornerstone 11:17 coronary 49:7 corporate 2:24 8:5 correct 22:3 48:25 61:9,10 61:13 104:3 145:1 151:3 154:5 156:18 189:24 191:19 191:20 192:14 193:6,7 199:19 correcting 48:13 correction 88:25 103:7 162:19 correctly 153:25 155:10 159:25 Meeting [cost - dc] cost 94:3 costello 2:11 7:19,21 85:17 85:17 127:6,10 127:10,11 cotton 93:25 94:5,11 100:8 113:24 couch 108:2 counsel 2:12,12 7:23,23 44:24 45:11 49:21 56:17 69:10 91:9 188:7 204:12,15 205:9 205:12 counsels 70:20 count 112:11 countless 69:1 countries 29:8 53:19 country 10:1,6 16:4 115:22 123:7 137:5,7 148:6 150:2,7 167:12 171:12 171:16 countryside 99:14 county 32:11,13 couple 37:3 75:8 96:9 115:13 141:10,16 181:22 course 18:7 37:15 75:16 79:1,3 96:25 98:21 110:15,17 117:8 131:6 September 27, 2022 Page 13 court 10:19 28:1 36:17 65:16 104:20 156:8 cover 108:5,5 142:12 173:3 182:8 covering 18:24 cranes 137:2 crank 24:23,25 crates 99:8 crazy 66:11 87:3 120:20 create 60:10 161:3 created 35:13 142:13 creating 180:4,4 creation 72:3 creative 29:19 34:23 68:18,20 creatively 68:21 creator 49:2 critical 96:17 132:12 144:8 criticism 31:11 crop 93:23 94:3 94:6 100:5,10 100:15 106:7,9 108:24 109:13 110:1,16 112:7 115:23 119:2 crops 94:11 99:16 100:7 113:24 crossed 42:10 crowded 169:20 181:13 185:15 crozer 21:5 25:22 crozier 2:19 8:14 cues 57:14 cultivation 99:16 cultural 154:20 culturally 154:17 culture 19:23 cum 51:9 curation 13:5 curator 2:6 4:25 13:6,8,10 curious 26:5 61:8 165:10 currency 13:6 current 49:3 55:17 57:16,24 58:1,3,20,22 62:9,13 67:4,6 71:3 72:11 74:17 75:22 77:21 104:17 currently 61:12 curvature 34:18 101:14 curve 102:6 cut 96:3 cute 30:7 cuteness 30:11 cuts 56:12 cutting 49:5 191:15 cycle 33:17 cycling 18:18,23 19:23 33:24 cycling's 19:12 cyclist 18:21 19:22 21:17 29:2 31:7,12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 33:6 cyclists 30:9 d d 2:1 136:11 150:19 151:4 157:22 193:10 d.c. 98:5 d.r. 82:24 88:3 d5 66:1 dad 51:3,9,16,22 52:19 53:7,24 dad's 53:21 54:3 dance 156:23 160:13 dangerous 55:18 136:10 dangerously 48:14 dangers 53:5 darkest 53:24 date 1:6 47:25 53:13,18 dates 29:3,23 167:4,7 198:20 daughter 2:20 2:22 8:25 9:9 82:8 83:16 137:14 138:20 daughter's 116:16 david 14:25 day 15:9 28:20 136:11 160:25 163:12 187:10 days 18:24 dc 1:12 55:20 57:13 60:13 66:1 67:2,4 72:13,15 79:12 81:8 83:25 Meeting [de - design] de 10:21 18:23 19:2,8,15,18,20 20:12,14 22:16 22:16,19,23 23:2,7,16,17 29:1 31:4 32:3 40:3 42:8,9 deal 79:3 dealt 83:3 dean 2:3 4:10 28:6,7 44:21 76:6 77:18 79:6 88:11,13 89:24 103:21 118:7,9 122:14 125:8 126:10,12 127:2 134:5 155:2 170:7,10 175:11 175:16 198:15 199:6 200:8,10 dear 203:2,2 death 52:4,7 deaths 82:10 debate 43:12 46:9 decades 136:4 138:25 153:6,12 december 136:11 decide 153:21 180:20 decided 171:11 decision 26:5,7 42:23 55:6 61:8 167:17 186:12 186:14 decisions 184:20 declined 96:10 deco 180:7 September 27, 2022 Page 14 deep 58:24 defer 38:5 50:10 59:15 196:12 defibrillation 55:17 56:25 57:11 58:23 defibrillator 48:13 49:3 52:9 55:20 56:10,16 57:1,14,17,24 58:2,3,20 60:14 60:16 62:9,14 66:2 67:2,3,4,7 72:13,15 74:20 74:24 75:22 77:22 82:6,10 82:17 84:2 89:1 89:4 defibrillators 48:23 defined 163:6 definite 159:4,4 definitely 101:17 102:25 103:1 155:13 159:15 167:10 definition 152:2 152:10 definitive 42:23 delay 124:7 delayed 7:14 deliberations 202:11 delicate 118:24 delighted 73:17 delineating 117:2 demonstrate 129:11 demonstrated 20:4 dennis 2:5 4:22 39:7,9,12 42:25 43:1,5 75:3,5 80:9 91:22,23 92:4,6 116:8,10 134:17 167:22 169:12 178:4 184:12,13 186:7 186:9 187:13 190:8 197:15,17 dennis's 77:9 denominations 72:7 dentists 11:13 deny 125:21 department 1:9 16:12 depend 166:2 depending 181:3 depict 69:23 96:17 123:7 143:20 146:10 147:25 148:21 depicted 56:3,7 123:24 130:24 150:19,24 151:2 151:4 depicting 123:5 depiction 24:6 49:18 146:24 184:2 depicts 22:14,25 23:5,15,22 24:19 49:2 96:16 144:18 145:6,16,21 146:5,21 148:8 148:10 149:14 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 150:2 163:10 depletes 94:1 depth 161:14 deputized 19:5 deputy 2:19,20 8:20,24 9:4 50:4 50:4 90:3 92:25 94:23 describe 66:10 described 71:16 description 75:7 deserve 168:8 deserves 68:15 129:10 design 2:9,9,10 2:10,11,17 6:21 6:23 7:1,4,6,8 7:19 14:15 18:9 22:13 23:4,11 23:14,15 24:10 24:16 25:18 28:24 29:5,15 30:7,16 34:1 38:4,13,15,17 38:24 39:25 40:1,15 42:18 43:7,16,23 47:6 47:12,22 49:24 50:2 55:12,13 55:21 56:13,21 56:21 57:4,9,18 57:21,25 58:5,7 58:18,21,23 59:11 61:18 62:6 70:13,18 71:14,17 76:9 77:11,16 78:14 79:9 80:24 81:3 81:4,5,16 83:13 83:18 87:2 88:3 Meeting [design - direct] 88:19 89:9,12 89:22,22 93:9 94:25 95:9,18 95:25,25 96:9 96:12,15 99:6 99:10,20,21 100:4,12,12,13 101:1 103:10,15 105:20 110:4 111:7,9,13,16 111:24 114:22 115:1,5,7,19,23 116:1 117:14,22 117:24,24 118:16,17,23 119:14,15 121:5 121:6,20 122:23 125:3 126:24 127:14 138:7,10 139:18 141:12 142:6 143:23,25 144:11,15,16,22 144:23 147:11 147:17 148:11 148:15,18,24 155:23 157:24 163:25 166:19 169:16,16 175:3 175:13,25 176:19 177:4,5 177:9,11,20 184:21 185:8,14 185:20 198:25 199:4 200:1 201:12 designates 66:4 designed 34:19 34:25 120:1,2 designer 106:18 132:13 September 27, 2022 Page 15 designers 105:13 113:4 designs 3:13 5:21,23 6:1 11:5 13:25 14:2 18:10 20:11 21:12 22:13 23:19,21 25:2,5 25:20 26:9 28:22 29:9,18 30:7 33:10 39:4 39:23 40:20,24 44:18 46:23 47:15,22 49:14 49:19 55:10,24 57:10 59:2,5 61:4 68:17 75:20 77:9 78:2 78:18 85:16 90:18 93:5 94:20 99:6 101:5,9 106:3 109:21 112:4,16 115:13 122:5,5 122:8 124:3,5 125:4 126:1,4 129:11 130:19 135:1 137:19 138:13 139:24 140:3 141:10 143:19 146:12 146:15,17,20 147:25 150:8,12 153:19 164:6,7 166:7,16 167:16 168:1,16 170:24 171:6 172:17 176:11,17 177:1 180:14 185:2 187:17 195:6 198:9 202:3 desirable 196:4 196:5 desire 94:10 195:10 despiau 86:16 despite 43:22 94:5 detail 163:19 170:2 detect 48:25 determination 172:4 determine 82:2 87:12 116:25 determines 162:13 develop 47:12 97:14 117:19 developed 48:12 93:23 developing 47:21 53:12,17 94:14 development 11:9 15:10 25:24 72:2 100:17 136:20 136:22 developments 48:22 112:25 113:2 117:12,12 device 49:5 56:10,10,12 58:8 63:7 devices 169:5 devoted 20:2 diagonal 175:4,4 dial 70:22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 diamond 93:17 diamonds 23:9 dictating 199:15 die 190:3 200:17 died 50:20 54:15 difference 54:1 85:25 different 61:3,3 61:4 72:7 89:18 94:14,14 98:15 127:23 129:22 131:7,9,20 132:15,16,19 133:2 141:10,15 141:22 142:1,4 142:5,14 151:18 158:22 159:5,6 164:17 171:21 172:7 182:10,16 182:17 201:4 differentiation 96:24 differently 117:18 171:22 difficult 60:14 94:5 101:2 106:2 109:14 136:9 158:6 166:8 167:24 170:24 difficulty 88:2 103:25 116:3 digital 204:9 205:5 diligence 96:5 diplomatic 63:13 105:18 direct 49:3 55:17 57:16,24 58:1,2,19,22 Meeting [direct - dr] 62:9,13 67:4,6 71:3 74:17 75:22 77:21 directed 13:12 direction 41:10 41:13 65:6 84:21 89:8,21 114:24 178:15 183:4,10 directly 156:10 159:9 director 2:8,20 2:22 6:17 7:15 9:4,11 12:16,18 13:15 15:20 17:5 93:22 94:23 137:16 183:18 dirt 103:2 dirty 177:3 disagree 67:14 disappointed 105:14,19 106:11 discount 160:18 160:18 discovered 51:15,18 discussed 72:20 116:14 117:20 172:7 discussing 11:4 27:22 30:6 104:16 discussion 3:12 5:20,22 6:1 25:7 27:12,23 46:9 46:16 59:7,11 65:13 92:12,24 101:11 103:19 September 27, 2022 Page 16 104:18 118:4 124:21,22,24,25 130:16 133:16 143:5 155:23 156:5 185:1,9 185:24 186:1 190:2,6 191:11 197:14 198:12 199:8 200:11 201:16,22 discussions 90:16 133:15 display 189:3 displayed 96:5 disposal 169:10 disrespect 111:10 132:25 133:4 disrespectful 96:23 distance 80:2 distinct 98:8 distinction 98:8 169:13 distinguish 47:25 distinguished 81:2 distinguishes 87:16 distracted 118:14 district 47:9 disturbing 107:6 107:7 diverge 86:24 diverse 129:22 164:16 diversifying 100:7 diversity 4:5 105:9 107:19 142:19 143:20 144:13,19 145:17,22 146:5 146:11,22 155:6 172:5,7 173:10 175:18 185:20 divided 66:22 division 98:1 doctor 36:14 61:6,7 63:21 81:11,12 128:11 128:11 doctor's 58:1 62:10,13 89:14 doctors 53:4,7 62:4 document 138:2 documentaries 155:11 documentary 155:7 dodge 200:24 doing 37:8 54:4 75:12 107:14 129:17 157:18 165:6 168:7 169:8 176:25 180:4 190:17,18 dollar 8:19 47:4 47:6 54:19 59:6 80:19 don's 35:21 donald 2:5 4:19 25:14,15,16 34:6,7 35:12,24 39:9 42:21,22 61:23,25 62:1 67:12 69:7 70:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 70:8 84:24 121:22,24,25 160:2,6 179:19 179:25 184:3 donald's 70:20 89:6 97:22 181:10 door 67:20 136:1 doping 27:3 33:8 dot 144:14 149:19 dotted 144:20 double 68:17 70:4 87:5 95:14 131:5 downs 103:2 dr 2:2,20 3:2 4:9 4:12,15,18,21 4:24 5:2,5,6,7,8 5:11,11 6:13,20 7:1,4,6,8,10,13 7:19,22,25 8:4,7 8:10,17,24,25 11:3 12:3,20 16:11,25 17:11 17:19,21,24 25:3,11,14 26:22 30:22 31:16 33:3 34:5 35:3,5,8,18 36:13,22,24,25 38:7 39:6,12 40:12,17 41:23 42:20 43:13 44:7,12 45:5,10 46:5,13,22 48:2 48:4,5,8,10 49:1 49:4,8 50:12,17 50:19 55:3,14 Meeting [dr - effort] 55:15,20 56:14 56:22 57:10,12 57:13,15,23 58:6,19,21 59:3 59:21 61:4,12 61:23,25 63:4 63:10,17,25 64:1,21 66:14 67:11 69:7,24 70:10,12 72:24 73:2,2,3,15 74:2 74:5,11 75:2,21 76:5,11 77:22 78:7,20 80:10 80:15 81:10,14 82:11 85:8,9,9 85:10,13 86:6 86:25 87:3,25 88:10,13,16,22 90:15 91:8,20 91:23 92:1,11 92:15,18 101:6 101:19 102:15 102:21 103:6,12 103:17 104:8,24 104:25 107:16 108:9 109:9,15 110:21,24 111:6 112:2,3,8,13,23 113:7,10 114:4 114:7,11,18,21 115:24 116:7,10 117:5,6,10 118:6 119:9,21 121:21,24 124:10,13,23 125:1,15,19,23 126:2,7,12,17 127:2,5,9,24 129:1,12,20 September 27, 2022 Page 17 131:18 132:7,9 132:10 133:6,10 133:14 134:1,7 134:9,11,13,15 134:17,19,21,21 134:22,23,23 150:9,15,17 151:8 152:16,16 152:17,22 153:17 154:4,4 154:6,6,10,14 154:23 155:15 155:18 156:13 158:8,9 160:1,5 162:24 164:3,3 164:5 166:4 167:19 170:6 174:13 176:5 177:23 179:19 179:25 181:8,8 181:9,21 183:4 183:5,6 184:7 184:12,13 186:3 186:7,23 187:9 187:25 188:6,25 189:3,11,14,18 189:23 190:5,11 190:14,18,20 191:1,7,10,20 191:23 192:2,6 192:8,11,16,20 192:25 193:7,15 193:18,22,24 194:2,14 195:4 195:9,15,23,24 195:25 196:1,5 196:14,17 197:8 197:10,12,25 198:14 199:6,11 199:16,22 200:5 200:7,10,15,19 201:7,9,15,19 202:17,19 dramatic 28:25 29:25 30:2 draw 36:1 drawing 107:10 124:4 160:15,15 160:16,17 drawings 139:3 drawn 74:12 162:11,12 166:21 dreads 19:9 drills 146:13 driven 94:10 drop 72:14,18 72:19 drug 49:6 due 14:6 28:3 65:17 70:8 82:10 104:21,21 105:11 156:9 duly 204:6 duplicate 14:23 duty 107:14 dynamic 39:25 40:14 108:19 e e 2:1,1,1 150:24 157:22 193:11 e.t. 30:14 eager 55:6 eagles 11:20,21 earlier 20:17 66:17 85:20 89:7 119:24 120:4 123:19 172:12 189:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 early 93:13,18 136:21 earth 97:15,16 97:16,18,20 98:3,7,8 106:25 107:4 109:4 earthen 96:2 easier 20:10,22 24:4,17 31:8 33:15 easily 62:10,11 101:16,23 112:7 175:21 eastern 98:4 123:6 183:25 echo 35:21 111:16 146:25 167:22 176:7 edge 49:6 127:13 177:14 editor 2:16,16 2:17 6:10,11,12 158:24 editorialize 43:15 44:4 educate 99:12 educated 52:25 education 93:18 effacing 32:23 effect 30:15 effective 55:16 94:4 efficiency 187:11 effigy 87:6 effort 26:25 137:9 143:21 144:13,20 145:7 145:18,22 146:6 146:12,23 178:5 Meeting [effort - europe] 179:3 efforts 27:9 33:8 135:17 147:2 eight 13:21 24:22 29:20 34:22 35:15 36:7 46:4 50:2 58:18 66:9,13 66:25 74:23 75:17 77:11 80:8,14,24 83:14 84:22 89:12,22 90:11 92:8 138:5 140:4 143:15,16 149:18 163:16 188:14,16,21,23 eighties 19:24 either 36:7 69:13 81:6 84:2 115:5 125:21 150:24 157:24 167:13 170:3 174:19 178:10 181:1,2,12 195:6 197:6 198:8 ekg 60:6,18 83:23 elastic 152:8 electric 11:10 electricity 58:14 electrocardiog... 55:15 56:23 57:22 65:25 79:15 electrodes 58:17 89:18 elegance 79:21 September 27, 2022 Page 18 elegant 109:21 111:17 114:2,3 175:9 element 40:1 60:4,5 62:8 72:19 80:7 172:20 175:4 177:22 elements 38:15 74:16 96:20 107:11 112:12 169:16 176:1 elevated 119:5 120:17 eleven 21:2,3 22:8 31:25 33:21 35:16 36:11 38:15 40:1,7,10 43:24 45:19,21 188:13 188:17 eliminating 61:17 elizabeth 2:23 7:25 69:9 90:3 eloquent 76:14 emblazoned 22:17 embrace 41:9 42:23 122:1 embracing 106:20 emerged 19:7 emergency 66:22 emeritus 13:9 emotional 118:15 emotions 52:6 empathically 52:16 emperor 183:11 emphasis 75:21 emphasize 22:21 emphasized 75:11 employed 204:13,16 205:9 205:13 employee 204:15 205:12 employees 3:18 employing 64:10 employment 135:16 encapsulate 109:15 encased 145:23 encircle 148:15 encompassing 182:15 endorse 40:16 103:4 ends 42:9 energetic 40:14 energy 40:2 engaged 78:13 engineer 48:12 engines 147:1 english 51:6 engraver 2:11 7:11 49:21 56:17 59:16 71:13,22 86:13 97:2,8 engraving 2:11 7:20 enjoy 163:7 196:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 enlisted 53:4 enormously 109:18 ensues 143:5 ensuing 135:14 ensure 56:1 64:14 entered 136:6 140:1 entertain 202:13 entertained 131:22 entire 16:4 38:19 60:2 182:15,22 entirely 79:12 79:23 entirety 169:23 envision 70:15 equal 136:1 equally 105:3 equipment 147:16 169:9 era 48:21 es 204:5 escape 48:9 escaping 51:1 especially 36:19 168:23 202:10 essentially 92:23 establishment 10:12,15 136:20 esteemed 16:18 ethically 156:18 ethnic 173:13 ethnicities 141:15,22 172:6 europe 24:1 98:4 136:12 137:1 Meeting September 27, 2022 [european - father] european 19:11 evans 7:8,9 46:20 90:2 evening 173:5 182:8 event 16:7 events 10:3,12 27:8 everybody 17:5 63:6 everybody's 127:7 evokes 96:4 exact 88:5 exactly 44:3 130:14 142:15 167:8 181:20 190:12 example 20:7 28:12 30:16 79:12 80:4 109:25 125:8 186:22 exceed 82:9 excellence 20:5 127:17,19 excellent 28:22 35:13 exception 77:2 excerpt 72:16,16 excited 141:4 exciting 95:6 108:16 excuse 148:20 197:13 execution 10:3 96:19 executive 2:22 9:10 137:16 Page 19 exemplified 20:8 exergue 60:11 existence 27:4 expected 157:16 experience 15:25 28:11 64:13 116:21 experiencing 64:18 expert 183:8 expertise 39:24 experts 47:20 explanation 111:20 181:1 explanatory 40:25 explore 102:14 102:16 131:9 express 40:23 122:8 133:1 202:8 expressed 40:22 50:1 58:24 127:7 expressing 116:11 expression 158:18 expressions 157:14 174:22 extend 96:21 extensive 13:20 extent 78:17 82:18 84:8 122:25 extraordinary 15:21,25 18:25 extremely 55:4 eyes 99:4 184:19 185:23 f f 150:24 157:23 193:11 fabled 19:9 face 37:13 107:1 139:6,8,19 142:20 173:23 174:22 faced 136:7 183:16 faces 139:9 157:15 163:5 173:16 facing 37:25 40:4 106:19 117:7 171:9 174:18 183:4,10 183:21 fact 16:16 18:6 25:15 26:23,24 26:25 27:5 37:5 43:22 46:7 63:12 74:2 82:9 82:9 83:5,11,20 84:7,18 88:24 89:4,11 90:2 92:24 108:13 110:12,18 129:5 129:17,21 133:18 154:9 156:4 157:18,25 159:2 167:12 171:16 175:14 178:5 factories 152:12 factors 133:2 factory 152:9 169:7 fading 32:25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 fails 122:12 faint 29:16 faith 11:3 53:25 faithful 82:2 fame 11:22 familiar 37:12 129:8 families 80:8 family 50:1,7 51:1 53:10 54:16 58:24 66:9 75:11,16 77:12,20 80:20 83:13 90:25 family's 66:25 74:21 75:17 77:11 90:11 famous 10:19,22 94:13 142:11 fan 33:7 79:8,18 fancy 157:17 fantastic 40:20 far 41:25 49:4 82:8 101:23 127:6 138:22 139:12 143:16 151:24 158:23 184:9 197:23 faraday 11:8 farmers 99:12 farms 137:9 fashion 16:9 fastening 136:23 faster 20:10,23 24:5,18 31:9 33:16 fatal 48:17 fatalities 52:5 father 31:12 50:19 54:22 Meeting [father - five] 59:1 75:16 76:15 79:1,2 81:19 94:18 father's 75:7 fav 41:11 favor 17:22,24 31:1,14 46:11 80:24 92:13 129:2,25 133:8 192:4,9 193:25 197:10 200:12 201:17 202:17 favored 41:11 favorite 33:1 108:21 110:9 fear 68:5 162:7 feasible 99:2 feats 19:25 feature 31:4 99:6 143:19 146:12,15 featured 24:5 119:19 130:20 175:15 183:19 features 23:11 24:22 55:13 57:21 95:25 100:4,13 144:11 144:15 147:11 148:24,25 149:1 149:8,19,22 featuring 147:17 federal 3:10 feedback 97:1 131:5 feel 16:8 28:16 34:18 77:20 82:5 83:4 107:18 111:3 122:3 125:10 September 27, 2022 Page 20 126:25 129:14 130:12 139:11 187:6 195:20 feeling 107:7 feelings 116:13 feels 43:1 77:23 feet 98:18 fellow 20:3 40:22 felt 42:15 96:17 102:17 114:25 132:25 144:7 183:19 185:13 female 8:22 fertile 96:1 108:9 fertilizer 94:4 fibrillation 55:18 fibrillations 48:15,15 field 19:10 24:11 99:25 136:21 fields 99:23 fighters 3:13 202:3 figure 60:12 63:24 78:13 97:15 182:4 201:5 figures 93:13 138:12 182:10 filipino 116:17 filled 99:24,25 136:23 175:6 film 155:9,10,17 164:15 final 14:5 47:18 132:7 173:24 finally 5:25 8:10 12:17 23:12 24:22 36:6 58:18 100:12 132:21 135:23 146:18 150:2 financially 204:16 205:13 find 22:3 33:23 79:8 81:2 107:4 109:22 119:9 154:17 175:3 189:22 196:25 finding 94:9 170:25 fine 22:11 118:25 120:13 finely 200:25 finish 42:10 106:10 finished 118:4 139:2 140:9,11 finishing 19:3 fired 51:21 firmly 59:21 94:6 first 4:2 11:11 11:12 12:12,24 13:2 19:2,11,11 21:25 30:4 37:21 38:3 40:18 47:2,15 50:11 63:20 65:23 69:21 77:4 81:17 96:10,14 102:1 105:19 113:19 117:10 124:19 128:1,4 130:18 138:18 143:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 145:5 158:13 166:10 176:9 181:5,6 191:20 firsts 197:14 fiscal 203:1 fishburne 183:6 fit 127:12 200:4 five 21:2,4 22:9 22:22 24:8 27:14 28:5 29:12 31:5 32:21 35:16 36:11 37:9 38:17 45:2,16 45:16 46:1,3 57:21 61:18 65:1 71:1 79:21 91:3,15 99:22 104:12 106:4,5 115:15 116:5 121:10,13 123:5 125:8 138:5 140:3 143:15,20 144:12,18 145:5 145:6,14,15,16 145:21 146:5,10 146:21 150:19 151:5 156:1 157:9 159:13,16 160:4,7,8,23 161:15,23 165:17,24 166:22 167:5,14 172:2,3 173:22 173:25 174:1 175:24 178:15 181:11,18 187:22,25 188:14,17,21 189:17,24 Meeting [five - fuller] 190:22 191:5,6 191:18 193:5 fix 195:7 flag 22:15,20 23:1 29:2 31:21 37:6 40:9,11 42:1,4,11 43:18 43:19,19,22 44:5 145:12 150:4 163:18 174:8 flanked 58:21 flanks 58:9 flat 40:4 flatness 102:19 flattened 102:2 flexing 153:15 flies 147:15 flip 106:8 flipping 115:5 floor 1:11 florida 204:23 flowers 100:2 flying 147:2 focus 49:1 59:21 89:3 95:10,12 115:23 116:5 117:23 165:17 165:20 168:16 174:25 175:14 focused 52:3 96:14 176:10 focuses 71:2 focusing 64:11 173:11 176:13 177:15 folks 83:3 86:11 88:16 129:23 130:7,15 September 27, 2022 Page 21 follow 20:7 39:10 127:15 131:17 132:11 136:4 153:17 154:7 followed 135:22 following 3:1 5:16 6:14 8:10 19:4,15 47:21 91:14 follows 17:8 23:22 45:9 91:7 133:25 188:5 fond 80:5 footage 155:13 footprints 119:4 119:4,6 force 165:13 forced 122:11,12 forceful 76:23 forces 10:17 forefront 115:21 foregoing 204:4 204:5 205:5 foremost 40:18 81:17 forget 10:4 forgive 10:25 58:12 84:19 103:21 105:10 126:13 197:12 forgo 73:9 forgoing 73:10 forgot 77:18,19 form 35:24 200:24 formal 96:10 formally 14:7 format 168:23 formation 146:23 former 2:13,21 6:15 8:7 9:8,9 32:11 137:13,14 forth 78:4 176:3 fortunate 50:6 137:11 forward 16:21 22:6 30:19 63:15 82:19 85:2 203:3 fostering 100:2 fought 128:12 found 51:17 159:13 172:9 176:13 190:20 foundation 82:5 founded 52:24 53:2 founder 2:16 6:9 93:20 founding 49:11 four 22:18 45:15 45:15,24 57:19 91:16,18 94:25 95:9 99:10 104:1,2 109:19 111:16 114:2 121:9 145:6 146:14 148:20 148:24 159:1 172:2 173:22 182:2 188:12,14 188:20,22,24 192:12,20 fourteen 46:4 fourth 11:17 fowler 11:17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 frame 148:11 framed 14:20 frames 124:8 147:17 france 18:23 19:3,8,15,18,20 20:13,14 22:17 23:7,12,17 29:6 32:3 42:8 frankly 73:22 84:16 178:4 free 24:19 34:1 99:15 129:14 friendly 125:13 125:15,21,24 friends 51:20 163:14 front 13:24 44:20 90:21 136:13 140:6 152:5 185:9 froze 74:11 frozen 80:3 fulfilling 50:23 full 18:19 19:10 72:19,20 100:24 fuller 2:7 5:6,7 12:3 36:24,25 40:12 73:2,3,15 78:7 80:10 82:11 85:8,9,10 85:10 103:12,12 104:24,25 108:10 109:16 110:24 111:6 112:8,13 113:10 116:10 117:5 119:9 125:1,1 125:15,19,23 126:2 129:13,21 Meeting [fuller - going] 131:18 132:7,10 134:21,22 152:16,17,17,22 153:17 154:11 164:4,5 181:8,9 181:9 183:5 195:24 196:1,2 196:5 200:7 fuller's 112:24 fully 15:25 43:9 43:17 60:23 64:10 fun 186:4 further 46:9,15 86:22 90:16 102:24 121:1 133:14 138:10 176:9 191:23 192:2 198:11 199:7 200:11 201:20 202:12 204:14 205:11 future 3:16 127:22 132:5 g September 27, 2022 Page 22 gendered 172:12 general 2:2,6 4:7 5:2,12 25:7 37:24 44:24 47:2 59:7 101:11 generally 40:23 81:25 174:24 generations 135:15 generators 11:10 generic 152:23 generosity 20:5 generous 45:6 genesis 183:13 gentlemen 15:15 91:8 181:21 gently 24:12 geographic 81:9 geometrical 76:24 77:15 george 10:23 93:10,12 94:13 95:10 96:2,7 99:10,11,18,22 g 150:24 151:3 100:3,5,11,15 193:11 100:20,23 game 118:19 103:23 104:2 gap 23:25 106:6,14 108:4 garage 169:4 111:8,12 112:21 garcia 205:3,20 115:16 118:19 garden 11:22 118:20,21 119:7 gauge 187:3 119:12,18 gear 33:24 47:24 121:15 122:20 142:23 127:12,12,24 gears 163:16 germinating 164:20,21 99:7 172:13 gershwin 10:23 gender 172:14 getter 91:19 188:13,20 getting 22:6 32:6 95:6 167:11 gibson 2:8 6:18 6:19 12:17,19 15:21 gifts 97:17 gilkes 2:16 6:10 gill 2:2 4:7,8 35:19,20,21 65:20,21,22 113:8,9,10 134:19,20 162:25 163:1,2 girls 156:21 157:10,14 give 20:9,21 23:23 24:4 30:11 34:13 37:22 43:20 63:3 68:23 69:5 77:24 78:15 108:22 111:23 124:4 131:20 160:16 165:23 171:19 172:11 174:11 187:24 197:22 198:10 201:23 given 71:7 82:22 89:8 113:5 154:10 187:7,11 gives 75:20 119:2 163:21,22 giving 37:19 74:22 170:11 197:20 glad 95:5 114:18 132:11 170:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 global 53:15 73:6 globally 52:11 globe 23:22 24:7 24:11,23 29:15 29:22 30:10 32:17 gloves 149:9,14 go 17:9 22:12 29:11 35:16 42:20,22 71:8 71:17 72:10 76:8 82:19 97:7 106:12 107:9 113:5,21 121:1 121:13 124:4 137:20,24 143:17,17 157:6 157:20,20 161:16 164:8 170:21 173:11 173:22 181:1,10 184:23,24 185:3 190:14 194:21 198:11 goes 39:15 66:4 102:24 197:23 going 11:4,23 17:2,9 29:3 30:12,15 31:18 32:10 35:21,22 41:7,12 43:23 44:14 45:5 55:9 56:23 59:12 63:1,14 65:25 66:18 67:1 68:7 68:23 70:18 71:9 76:20 77:8 78:9,15 80:24 81:23 83:7,19 Meeting [going - halfway] 84:4,8,10,14,21 84:25 85:2,2,3 85:14 86:2,24 89:16 91:1,2 92:3 93:2 102:5 102:5,6 109:3 111:5,11 113:11 116:3 118:17 121:1,6,13,18 122:2,25 124:1 124:2,23 126:14 132:14,14 142:3 142:15 152:12 158:11 159:22 160:13 161:24 165:5 171:4,5 173:21 174:5 176:8 177:9 180:11,12,16,18 181:15 185:3 186:10 189:15 189:22 190:11 191:2 200:20,21 gold 2:22 3:14 5:21 6:2 8:12 9:6,8,9 11:20 14:3,16 18:11 18:13,14 20:24 25:6 34:10,11 35:25 39:14,18 41:3 43:10 44:19 135:2,6 145:3 150:13 168:2 170:12 183:14 187:17 196:11 good 3:2 12:19 21:14 29:9 30:16,25 35:24 66:12 76:2,19 September 27, 2022 Page 23 81:4 109:4 112:6 121:20 140:21 156:15 157:14 171:18 184:11 185:17 googled 118:19 googling 79:2 82:4 gould 2:22 137:13,14 138:17,19,19 140:6 201:24 gould's 138:20 government 135:20 governor 2:21 9:5 54:17 55:22 91:24 95:13 133:3 governor's 49:23 50:3 94:22,24 95:8 100:25 103:22 104:1 105:12 109:20 110:11 121:7 132:23 133:19 governors 47:11 graduate 48:7 73:16 graduated 51:9 graham 70:21 grandchildren 50:22 granddaughter 138:21 grandmother 170:14 grant 139:15 graph 79:15 graphic 79:25 100:14 119:3 grateful 141:3 great 21:16 25:6 37:17 54:5 62:24,25 79:3 109:1 119:14,15 119:25 122:9 138:20 141:13 143:6 164:7 167:25 178:2 181:19 186:16 186:17 greater 82:21 greatest 19:13 52:12 greg 2:12 5:22 7:22 8:12 18:11 18:13,15,17 20:12,25 21:19 21:24 23:13,16 25:6 26:10 32:12 33:7 37:12 41:22 42:6,15 44:19 44:24 45:10 46:5 50:4 86:24 91:9,20 188:7 195:15 gregory 2:19 8:22,24 18:17 gripping 58:1 gritty 157:12 grotesque 174:21 ground 97:15 102:10,13,24 106:24 120:18 120:23 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 group 2:15 6:9 51:19 108:22 141:17 148:3 164:16 173:13 182:15 groups 171:22 grove 93:17 growing 94:5 96:4 152:7 grown 100:7 guarantee 187:23 guess 31:11 95:19 103:14 111:20 125:10 126:18 160:15 178:21 guevara 1:13 204:3,22 guidance 76:18 guiding 20:8 gum 11:11 gun 144:22 145:18 148:1,12 149:10 guns 146:13 guys 60:21 63:2 121:7 h hair 194:23 201:11 hairnet 138:11 139:8 144:9 194:7,12,16 201:14 hale 10:4 half 48:16 99:24 116:16,17 halfway 67:17 67:18 Meeting [hall - history] hall 2:17 6:11 11:22 94:17 hamilton 14:21 hammering 126:19 hanchock 2:10 7:1,3 46:19 hand 70:24 88:11 89:14 126:10 147:13 179:5 hands 58:1 62:8 87:1,18 178:22 192:11 happen 138:25 happened 27:1 happening 141:3 180:13 happens 10:23 189:16 happy 22:4 33:19,20 34:3 73:20 88:22 117:14 132:20 171:25 172:1,18 178:3 harbor 136:11 harcourt 2:7 5:6 12:3 39:11 85:10 103:12 104:24 122:1 125:1 152:17 180:1 181:9 183:5 196:2 hard 36:17 63:6 130:9 140:12 167:16 177:4,16 177:17 harlem 3:13 202:3 September 27, 2022 Page 24 harvard 53:15 73:16 hat 158:24 164:15 hathaway 120:1 120:6 hats 157:21 head 33:25 49:17 56:2 85:22 86:17 97:25 98:18 102:13 170:17 head's 102:5,6 headed 156:22 headgear 172:8 heads 102:4 headscarf 149:20 healing 52:17 58:13 health 21:19 48:6 49:6,8 52:7 53:8,12,16,18 73:17 82:12 136:16 healthier 53:22 healthy 55:19 hear 16:18 25:25 78:2,7 82:4 88:15 90:10 124:15 126:16 131:1 181:23 heard 46:11 50:24 54:3 83:16 90:8 92:21 96:25 108:6 124:19 131:4 137:4 144:4 157:1 158:18 184:9 hearing 3:25 9:15 16:21 17:16,21 44:16 46:6,15 54:21 63:6 82:3 88:16 88:17 90:17 92:12,20 133:8 133:15 134:3 180:23 189:19 200:12 heart 16:23 48:14,17,20,24 56:24 57:11,21 57:25 58:14 66:21 70:22 71:3,5 76:21 80:1 heartbeat 55:19 heartbeats 70:17 hearts 12:1 28:18 heated 43:12 heatedly 162:10 heavy 120:13 137:2,3 heights 72:8 held 135:16 145:11 hell 3:13 193:17 202:3 hello 50:15,16 80:17 176:6 helmet 31:13 help 36:23 52:15 72:1 142:12 153:21 185:12 188:10 helped 48:19 148:4,17 159:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 166:25 helpful 36:22 61:2 89:24 111:2 helping 27:17 helps 184:18 heralded 10:2 hereto 204:16 205:13 hero 32:14 heroes 32:15 94:17 hesitant 89:3 hex 169:1 175:21 hexagonal 159:19 hi 138:19 140:21 184:15 194:4 high 37:19 45:20 46:2 48:7 91:19 111:23 higher 102:13 113:3 161:9 highlight 143:12 highlighting 94:25 highlights 95:1 highly 15:11 hired 138:23 historical 10:2 10:11 11:15 41:1 100:22 154:19 171:10 historically 194:17 history 2:3 4:10 10:9 12:6 16:3,6 18:21 19:14 39:15 77:6 Meeting [history - important] 93:14 95:11,15 95:16 113:15 129:8,9 138:22 182:11 hit 112:13 180:16 hoge 2:13 5:18 8:7,9 12:15 13:2 13:5,11,20,25 14:25 15:5,5,16 15:20 16:24 17:1 28:9 hoge's 14:5 hold 114:19 156:4 190:24 holding 99:7 159:18,20 165:13 175:20 176:24 182:12 182:19,20 holds 144:21,21 145:18 home 18:19 126:19 136:12 152:5 163:13 homefront 136:7 homes 137:9 honest 105:17 107:13 honor 12:23 15:22 16:18 48:2 51:16 62:19 68:14 93:10 114:16 116:1 123:23,24 127:20 168:8 honorably 14:13 honored 16:8 47:11,16 54:17 55:5 56:15 September 27, 2022 Page 25 honoree 59:22 honoree's 38:11 honoring 5:24 8:19 9:2 11:21 16:6 46:24 47:7 49:1 63:21 67:8 67:14,21,21 68:24 69:13 90:19 93:6 139:10 141:7 142:17 144:1 145:20 148:5,16 166:25 185:11 honors 51:8 hope 29:5 89:23 105:15 hopefully 126:15 hoping 122:2 hopkins 51:11 51:14 horizon 102:3 horizontal 60:4 60:5 72:19 horrific 132:1 horse 120:20 horseshoes 112:11 house 2:7,8 5:6,8 huge 33:7 79:7 79:18 hugely 80:5 human 53:10 54:9 58:7 73:21 75:10 78:13 170:22 humanity 51:25 53:25 73:11,19 97:18 humbled 16:8 humor 28:14 hundreds 94:14 hypocritical 98:11 i i.t. 64:10 iconic 29:7 146:1 153:9,10 idea 42:10 97:21 97:23 100:15 176:23,24 181:5 185:5 ideally 100:23 ideas 53:23 116:13 identifiable 87:12 165:8 identified 21:1 49:23 137:20 139:24 145:16 147:9 148:19 153:20,24 identify 27:15 65:2 87:5 94:10 104:13 106:1 156:1 identity 128:21 128:22 ignored 57:7 ii 12:1 135:9,18 136:4 141:9 144:3 148:7,25 149:13,18,25 150:7 158:21 167:1 170:18 171:20 177:7 illinois 47:16 101:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 illustrate 59:20 illustration 169:22 image 22:24 42:13 105:21 106:1 113:13,13 113:14,18,20 115:16 144:9 153:8 173:15 imagery 96:1 images 112:10 156:16 157:3 imagine 29:13 86:15 117:20 179:1 imaginings 96:25 immediately 97:2 106:7 immigrated 48:8 impact 49:7 impacted 136:2 impersonal 109:22 implanted 48:23 implicated 124:9 implied 38:13 import 148:2 149:3 importance 105:5 important 15:9 16:2,7 21:17,22 28:19 29:7,12 38:20 49:5 66:3 74:18 96:18 97:5 105:2,8,21 107:17 115:10 120:6 122:7 128:10,21 Meeting [important - inscriptions] 129:12 132:21 141:6,13 153:18 167:11 171:13 171:18,24 202:11 impossible 101:3 impression 160:16 imprints 119:6 improve 52:3 64:14,18 82:16 121:6 improved 136:14 improving 94:3 inactive 78:6 inch 14:21,22,25 160:10 168:23 inclination 29:10 include 10:15 20:12 58:5 68:13 101:3 105:20 130:22 131:12 138:4 149:12,17 195:19 included 3:11 49:5 99:16 140:2 includes 5:16 24:16 38:22 135:16 138:5 143:16,23,25 163:24 including 14:4 48:22 68:11,11 100:14 105:12 151:20 163:23 inconclusive 110:18 incorporating 128:19 increase 41:7 56:9 incredible 32:24 54:6 incredibly 128:12 incuse 97:25 98:17,17 108:13 108:17 117:2 incused 23:9 24:20 29:24 58:10,15 96:7 100:13 121:15 158:4 176:1 indicate 6:16 indicated 143:9 144:24 indicating 4:4 indication 97:9 individual 165:20 173:12 175:15 individual's 87:12 individuals 123:24 144:10 163:11,12 165:20 inductee 94:17 industrial 94:9 100:18 136:13 136:23 156:25 industries 142:5 industry 135:20 145:24 170:20 171:14 September 27, 2022 Page 26 inelegant 96:21 information 47:2 53:13 57:4 57:18 71:24 72:25 79:10 81:18 99:16 139:21 184:11 187:6 informative 186:13 infused 119:1 ingredients 118:1 inherent 21:23 initial 96:19 99:21 initially 135:20 135:24 initiative 53:15 injection 82:15 innovated 128:7 innovation 5:24 8:19,19 9:1,2,2 46:24 47:4,7 54:19 56:15 59:6,22 63:21 63:23 66:5 67:16 68:25,25 69:3,13 70:23 73:24 74:13 76:3 80:12 82:6 84:24 89:1 90:13,19 93:6 101:10 110:16 111:21,25 114:24 115:12 128:7 131:11 innovations 5:24 11:5 46:24 67:21 90:19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 93:7 100:20 115:25 117:6,13 117:17 128:15 131:13 innovative 55:16 99:15 innovator 48:2 49:3 63:23 69:14 73:25 74:13 76:2 80:12 83:15 84:23 88:25 89:2 93:10 109:16 131:10 innovators 47:7 78:1 input 15:7,8 113:5 inquiry 96:5 inscribed 23:18 24:15 inscription 23:23,25 24:14 24:21,24 56:9 57:2,15,23 58:2 58:6,10 59:17 96:7 99:9,18 100:11,14 143:24,25 144:7 144:17 145:13 145:20,25 146:16,19 147:23 175:7 195:13,14 196:10 inscriptions 20:11,20 23:3 24:20 55:10,19 57:13 58:21 71:20 94:19 Meeting [inscriptions - jump] 114:15 146:3,8 147:3,18 148:5 148:16,22 149:6 149:12,16,25 150:5 196:23 insert 62:4 143:4 insight 15:13 28:11 39:24 insightful 13:23 insights 116:13 inspiration 38:1 105:24 135:14 inspired 15:6 53:20 76:13 99:8 inspiring 73:14 76:14 173:2 institute 53:20 93:15,21 instrumental 72:2 93:15 115:20 integrated 52:15 77:6 96:20 integration 135:23 intended 30:17 74:1 intense 52:6 intent 183:3 intention 182:20 interest 41:2 94:7 127:8 187:3 interested 77:13 81:25 204:17 205:14 interesting 29:19 36:8 66:20 81:17 September 27, 2022 Page 27 87:1 117:3 162:22 163:25 169:1 170:23 172:14 183:17 interests 14:13 intergovernme... 7:16 international 20:2 49:12 53:2 internet 79:4 83:17 interpret 68:21 interrupting 41:19 interviews 155:13 intriguing 117:25 intro 12:20 introduce 4:3 50:19 introducing 140:16 introduction 78:25 85:21 invasion 136:11 invasive 52:2 invent 108:11 invented 59:23 invention 11:9 52:9,11 66:5,10 67:9 69:23 74:3 90:13 inventions 106:16,20 120:16 inventiveness 109:5 inventor 94:12 invoke 33:18 involve 194:5 involved 63:12 68:6 83:10 101:4 involves 94:8 iowa 93:19 irish 123:4 iron 158:2 irregular 56:23 isaac 120:1 isaiah 182:9 ishness 180:7 isolation 70:13 issuances 48:1 issue 47:6 84:14 103:10 166:15 issued 119:19,23 issues 9:14 64:24 70:19 84:23 103:11 132:12 it'll 72:17 item 3:11 17:12 j 159:22 167:24 184:19 jobs 135:20 136:23 137:6 joe 2:11 7:10 43:13,14 44:7,8 59:24 60:1 62:5 62:16 69:24,25 71:21 85:14,19 86:6,7 87:25 88:14 89:13 97:8,12 98:25 101:12 108:14 124:4 129:1 161:4 164:12,14 165:7 167:23 179:6 181:23 182:1 196:14,19 200:17,23 joe's 117:1 john 10:20 122:9 johns 51:11 join 12:5 15:15 54:2 joined 28:12 james 123:5 46:18 135:8 183:6 joining 9:12 jane 183:6 12:21 16:19 jean 32:7 56:18 64:17 jeep 148:2 86:11 92:25 jennifer 2:13 6:5 201:24 6:8 7:14 21:15 joseph 71:25 27:17,18 36:15 journey 54:14 44:23 90:23 139:5 187:21 192:14 joyce 123:5 jesse 10:24 joys 73:4 jessup 99:12 juggle 196:23 jews 51:12 jump 69:11,20 jive 156:20 77:3 155:1 job 1:14 34:20 160:7 82:21 157:19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting [jumped - lane] jumped 38:3 160:3 june 5:20 14:6 17:14 47:17 136:12 junior 18:19 120:19 justice 51:4,10 justices 10:20 k kansas 93:19 keep 27:13 64:25 72:20 104:11 126:19 155:25 170:13 185:3 192:11 keepers 33:12 keeping 27:16 52:21 65:8 123:14,14 keeps 27:19 kept 72:14 137:9 key 29:13 kid 32:11 87:10 kids 116:19 128:3 kind 21:24 22:1 30:7 32:25 39:9 77:24 86:15 87:19 95:14 97:19,20 106:23 118:2,24 120:6 120:12,14 123:15 127:16 132:4 139:20 142:13 153:11 155:4,11 158:3 161:1,1 162:15 162:17 163:20 168:12 172:14 September 27, 2022 Page 28 180:6,16 183:13 183:25 184:2 186:11,20 194:24,25 197:19 kinds 201:4 king 98:5 120:19 knew 54:8 142:10 158:11 knock 73:7 know 7:13 9:24 11:13 12:8 13:10 15:3,7,24 16:14 21:16,23 21:24 22:2 25:17 26:14,15 26:18 27:17,18 29:9,24 30:9 31:21,23 32:10 34:8,9,19,24 37:8,8,13,23 41:2,20 42:1 43:1,2,2,3,4,9,9 44:5 55:2 56:13 63:7 66:2,18,24 67:5 68:13,18 68:19,19,23 69:2,25 70:19 71:5 73:18 77:15 78:9,16 79:15 81:21 83:23 84:11,12 87:6,22 95:17 95:17,20,22 102:9 106:22 108:17 110:4,5 110:8 117:5 118:12 119:21 120:13,25 122:2 122:10,11,14,14 122:17,21,22 123:4,6,8,11,13 123:15,20,22,23 124:2,7 125:7 125:10,16 126:5 126:14,24 127:7 132:2,13,17 139:15,20 142:4 142:10 151:10 151:17,19,23 152:7,10,13 153:8,10 154:2 154:16,19 155:5 155:17 159:22 160:3,7,11,11 160:12,14,19,20 160:23,24 161:2 161:3,4,4,5,6,7 161:8,9,10,11 161:12,12,13,23 161:24 162:1,2 162:2,3,8,9,12 162:14,15,16,17 162:22 164:25 165:1,5,5,6,11 165:16,21,25 168:5 170:1 171:12 172:23 174:16 175:20 179:1 180:2,6,6 180:7,10,12,16 183:1,12 184:4 184:5,20 185:10 186:1 192:22 193:17,19 199:23 201:2 knowing 81:25 knowledge 13:21,23 204:11 205:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 known 6:2 9:6 77:25 135:2 150:13 152:19 157:22 187:18 knows 128:13 kotlowki 200:8 kotlowski 2:3 4:10,11 28:6,8 76:7 77:18 88:14 103:22 104:6 118:8,9 126:14,18 134:6 155:1,2 170:8 170:10 198:17 200:8 krier 2:21 9:8 137:12 140:25 140:25 141:5 201:23 kudos 121:18 l l 2:21 9:5 l.a. 183:7 labeled 57:5,19 100:10 lace 119:1 120:13 lack 95:19 lacking 110:17 131:2 ladies 15:15 91:8 181:21 lafayette 10:21 laid 11:17 land 131:25,25 132:12 landscapes 76:24 lane 127:16 Meeting [language - liking] language 51:7 197:20 lannin 2:8 5:9 5:10 17:20,20 31:17,18 63:19 63:19 66:15,16 66:17 107:25 108:1 134:7,8 151:9,9,24 152:15 158:10 158:11,12 178:17,17 179:9 179:12,16 189:19 191:9 large 57:21 largely 100:19 larger 193:11 lastly 183:22 late 118:18 laude 51:9 launched 53:11 131:7 law 18:13 47:3 135:6 lawrence 2:2 3:23 5:11 40:17 63:11 81:15 84:20 87:25 88:23 103:6,18 155:19 189:13 lawyer 68:19 85:1 layered 44:2 lead 52:7,8 136:8,14 174:21 leader 2:4,8 4:16 4:19 5:9 18:17 48:10 leadership 76:17 September 27, 2022 Page 29 lean 40:23 41:10 84:21,25 89:8 89:21 111:11 178:15 leaning 88:19 89:10 110:10 leap 111:19,21 learn 73:5,8,20 128:2 learned 64:14 79:2 80:20 leave 42:17 141:17 199:4 200:21 201:12 leaving 168:15 led 11:9 97:2 135:19 136:19 left 16:22,23 51:2 88:7 108:11 117:9 119:7 121:3,9 159:7,9 164:11 171:9 183:9,19 183:22 legacy 119:8 legal 2:12 7:22 25:4 49:21 56:17 59:4 69:10 101:7 103:10 150:10 162:5,13 legally 195:12 195:14 legendary 128:4 legible 72:21 legions 182:15 legislation 69:12 legislative 2:19 2:20 7:15 8:17 9:4 21:6 49:17 56:1 60:13,24 94:23 legumes 93:25 lemond 5:22 8:12 18:11,13 18:15,18 19:2,7 19:13,17,18,22 20:1,4,12,25 21:5 22:14,18 22:23 23:2,5,8 23:16,20,24 24:6,13 25:6,23 27:4 28:23 29:2 29:11 31:3,19 33:7 37:12 41:12 43:21 44:4,19 lemond's 22:10 22:22 23:13 26:25 33:21 39:21 43:15 lemonds 24:3,17 lesson 182:12 lessons 64:14 letter 72:8 lettering 75:19 141:6 letters 5:18 17:13,17 18:4 202:25 letting 168:5 level 113:3 187:10 lewiston 48:7 51:5 liaison 2:13 6:4 7:16 21:5 25:23 50:2 55:22 94:21 100:25 140:15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 liaisons 3:18 8:11 47:20 90:24 137:12,18 137:21,23,25 138:9,15 144:5 145:15 146:20 147:7,10,20 148:19 170:11 184:8 196:9 198:7,11 liberty 14:2 70:6 147:13 148:2,14 149:2,8,23 license 169:10 lied 151:21 life 10:6 19:16 50:23 52:16,21 52:23 53:9 54:3 54:5 70:24 73:13 75:7 82:16,16 96:6 97:17 155:8 174:20 lifesaving 48:19 lift 157:7 light 157:8 lightning 55:14 66:21 79:18 liked 26:15 31:20 32:8 42:18 66:7 73:23 111:13 139:6 156:15 157:5 158:16 163:9,17,17,21 167:5 171:10 177:5,10 likes 184:5 liking 183:25 Meeting [limitations - lown] limitations 89:23 limited 129:5 202:24 line 42:11 55:15 56:23 57:22 87:14,15 98:9 101:24 117:2 140:12 157:9,13 157:17 169:7 175:5 177:2 lined 159:3 lines 117:20 linking 122:20 list 137:6,20,24 listen 70:15 listened 52:16 listeners 3:7 listening 3:25 30:19 97:13 literal 182:24 184:2 literally 176:16 184:5 literature 54:7,9 lithuania 48:9 51:1 lithuanian 48:5 little 9:25 29:16 29:17 30:1 35:8 36:23 47:2 48:4 60:8 72:11,14 72:17 75:20 77:7 78:5,6,8 79:1,19 80:3 82:4 86:6 87:9 88:7 93:11 101:15 105:11 105:14,18 111:3 111:4 114:20 September 27, 2022 Page 30 118:15,15 119:23 126:15 128:3 139:17 161:9,10 163:17 163:19 168:19 172:13 174:6 175:19 179:25 180:19 182:11 183:24 187:25 191:15 live 161:21 164:1 lively 96:1 lives 69:1 liz 56:18 location 1:8 long 50:23 73:13 84:20 150:20 longer 193:12 look 16:21 22:5 39:23 44:3,4 61:3 71:1,6 76:22 80:3 89:17 95:19 101:13 106:7,12 106:14 108:10 111:19 112:23 116:25 123:15 139:4,17 143:17 153:13 155:14 155:17 156:21 157:12,13 159:1 160:12 161:5 162:3,6,8,16 163:6 168:2 176:21,22 180:12 181:6 184:23 199:1 203:3 looked 30:4 119:2 140:7,9 156:18,19 176:9 177:2 185:2 looking 10:1 30:3,19 43:25 76:16 85:11 105:23,24,25 106:17,20,23 112:22 114:24 115:1,5 120:10 120:16 140:8 148:1 156:14 158:16 161:25 163:7 164:10 170:1 171:17 173:18 178:18 182:21,25 185:8 looks 31:22 37:14 42:4 76:1 101:15 102:1 142:8 157:7,15 165:4 looms 10:7,7 loose 152:9 lori 2:22 9:8 137:13 138:17 138:19 139:22 140:19 145:1 201:23 lorie 144:24 lose 10:6 124:2 lost 52:17 79:11 80:1 110:6 115:12 126:21 lot 21:19 28:12 28:15,21 29:9 34:13 76:18,19 79:10 83:4 88:17 101:19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 105:24 111:18 118:11 119:8 120:5 140:7 142:1 152:13 161:17 162:1 169:25 171:14 176:11 177:6 178:20 180:13 180:14,23,23 185:13 lots 32:13 139:3 164:7 loud 131:1 louder 35:8 86:6 179:25 loudly 28:2 65:17 104:21 156:9 louise 54:13 love 11:23 28:25 29:5 34:17,17 37:22 40:11 52:12 169:21,22 loved 54:7 lovely 16:9 39:3 71:6 lowd 75:14 lower 56:6 60:3 60:6 71:20 100:17 161:10 lowered 56:6 60:5 lowering 70:16 lown 2:20,20 8:25,25 48:3,5,6 48:8,10 49:2,8 50:1,7,9,11,13 50:15,17,20 53:14,19,20 54:18,21 55:3 Meeting [lown - medal] 55:14,15,20 56:14,22 57:2 57:10,12,13,15 57:23 58:6,10 58:19,22,24 59:21 61:12,13 63:25 74:2 75:5 76:11,12,12 78:24 81:18 82:3 87:3 88:6 90:3,6,9,25 92:8 92:25 lown's 49:4 61:5 75:21 77:22 81:10 86:25 loyal 12:16 lunar 72:17 lunch 134:1 lunchbox 150:3 luther 98:5 120:19 lying 108:1 lyrical 38:16 m m.d. 57:24 61:6 61:13 81:10 82:23 88:2 92:8 m4 147:14 ma'am 203:2 machinery 165:22 machines 137:3 mae 2:21 9:7 137:12 140:25 140:25 141:5 143:10 201:23 magazine 142:12 157:11 173:3 September 27, 2022 Page 31 magnificent 76:15 main 18:7 50:2,4 maine 5:25 8:20 46:25 47:18 48:1,8,9 49:23 51:5,8 54:18 55:4,12 56:9 59:6,18 69:3 80:19,19,21 90:20 112:10 mainers 55:4 mainstream 154:20 majority 4:16 151:22 186:17 maker 125:20 199:19 making 12:17 54:15 91:19 107:24 142:24 167:24 178:6 186:14 188:12 188:20 198:12 202:10 male 135:18 man 26:11 32:21 39:1 67:9,15 68:1,14 69:23 74:17 78:11 90:13 96:24 112:9 114:16 116:1 man's 111:14 management 2:9 6:21 18:9 manager 2:10 2:10,11,17 7:2,4 7:6,8,19 13:13 manner 145:11 197:7 manpower 170:18,22 mantra 33:18 manufacturing 124:8 149:11 map 23:12 mark 47:24 72:14 marks 37:19 111:23 marquis 10:21 marshall 10:20 martin 98:4 120:19 mary 2:8 5:9 17:20 31:17 40:8 63:18,19 66:15,17 84:1 107:25 111:13 121:11 134:7 151:8,9 158:9 158:12 163:8 168:25 178:11 178:16,17 183:12 mary's 172:1 175:22 176:7 mass 44:1 98:13 massive 98:18 match 159:24 171:4 180:22 181:7 190:22 material 101:18 135:10 materials 94:10 115:9 matter 65:11 68:18,20 93:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 133:15 154:8 157:18 172:25 194:6 201:21 202:1 matters 9:18 11:6 81:7 mcnutt 170:16 md 57:2 mds 83:11,11 meals 99:17 mean 26:12 65:23 73:8 79:13,17 122:18 126:21,22 128:15,24 151:24 152:1 154:15 160:13 162:6,16 172:25 179:9,11,13,14 198:1 meaning 161:14 means 9:23 27:17 83:23 84:5 122:15 164:11 meant 132:25 133:4 159:19 171:21 measles 108:3 mechanical 76:23 165:1 mechanics 164:25 medal 3:14 5:22 6:2 8:12 9:6 14:22,23 15:1 18:11,14,15 20:24 21:23 25:7 31:10 33:19 34:16 Meeting [medal - mike] 35:25 41:4 43:4 43:10 44:19 112:15 135:2,7 139:2,6,11 150:13 160:10 160:17 161:6 163:4 168:10 169:23,24 173:17 180:4 183:8,15,18 187:17 195:19 200:3 medal's 182:4 medalist's 34:10 medallic 4:13 medals 14:3,4,17 14:17,21 15:11 16:6 18:19 34:11 39:15,18 39:19,19 97:23 116:18 168:2 174:18,25 180:5 183:15 196:11 media 2:15,16 6:9,10 202:6 medical 49:5 51:11,19,21 53:1,13 54:10 54:11 81:12 medicine 52:13 81:22 82:14 meet 67:5 meeting 1:2,8 3:1,3,5,9,12,16 4:3 5:15,16,20 6:7,16 9:18 14:5 17:14 18:7 64:13,15 124:6 143:14 202:7,21 202:21,23,25 September 27, 2022 Page 32 meetings 64:9 meets 60:13 megan 2:9 6:23 167:23 melding 29:6 member 2:13 3:17 8:8 13:4 14:5,12 49:11 62:17,20 65:5 105:17 107:14 members 3:18 4:4,5 6:6,15 17:16 27:2,13 27:20 36:16 40:22 41:14,17 42:2 50:18 51:2 56:20 64:8,25 65:10 81:20 85:7 90:16,21 103:18 104:14 107:20 114:9 124:15 143:3 150:10 154:24 155:25 156:3 196:13 202:1,7 memory 54:6 170:13 men 135:22 137:7 menacing 165:4 menna 2:11 7:10 7:12 41:19,25 43:13,14,14 60:1,1 62:5,5,16 62:16,24 69:25 69:25 71:21,25 71:25 73:1 85:24 86:7,7,14 88:4 97:12,12 98:24,25 101:16 102:4,9,16,22 127:15 179:7,11 179:13,18 182:1 182:1 196:16,18 196:20,22 197:3 200:18,23,23 mental 21:18 mention 11:1,6 78:7 120:6 147:5 mentioned 26:25 77:14 119:9 132:12 157:5 168:12 173:3 176:21 177:19 177:19 183:5 mentioning 119:18 mentor 87:15 merger 107:1,3 merit 34:13 106:4 125:4,9 178:6 merits 40:22 162:14 mess 70:18 198:24 message 37:24 128:6 160:21 173:10 180:25 messaging 118:25 120:15 175:18 met 135:25 metal 139:4 149:4 152:8 167:10 169:25 177:21 metallic 160:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 metals 140:8 metaphor 172:21,25 method 48:13 93:24 methods 94:2 mettalic 2:3 miami 180:10 michael 2:21 9:5 11:8 35:3 70:11 127:9 michelangelo 182:4 microphone 3:20 15:18 36:18 156:10 microphones 28:3 63:9 65:17 65:18 104:22 156:10 microscope 96:4 96:8 98:9 106:17,21,23 112:20 115:9 117:11 microsoft 3:20 middle 78:10 80:5 135:21 midpoint 60:6 mike 2:4,11,15 2:24 4:16 6:9 7:19 8:4,18 21:7 35:6,21 44:8,8 70:12 79:20 85:14,17 99:1 101:11,12 112:2 112:4 114:18 124:20 127:3,5 127:10,11 134:13 156:12 Meeting [mike - move] 159:12 166:12 176:20 181:23 196:15 201:11 miles 18:25 military 136:13 137:1 185:22 milling 137:2 million 48:17 136:5,6 millions 53:1 mills 54:17 mind 52:14 74:25 96:1 97:11 108:9 115:4 161:4 173:6,6 mindful 74:21 77:12 129:4 minds 10:7 129:13 minimum 72:4,4 72:8,10 136:5 minor 27:10 31:10 minorities 116:19 135:24 minority 2:4,8 4:19 5:9 135:22 135:23 mint 2:8,11,13 3:18 6:4,14 7:10 9:14 11:18,19 12:24,25 14:18 15:2 16:12 18:8 41:4 47:5,10 56:4 64:7,19 82:20 89:9 113:4 117:19 130:6 161:2 198:10 199:10 September 27, 2022 Page 33 200:1 201:12 202:6 minute 17:3 45:2 minutes 5:19 17:13,17 18:4 19:10 27:14 28:6 45:1 65:1 91:2,2,4 104:12 156:1 187:22 202:24 mishear 140:5 mismatching 168:16 mispronouncing 58:12 missed 104:7 152:18 194:15 missing 118:10 mission 146:2 missouri 5:25 9:3 47:19 91:25 93:7,9,17,19 94:21,21 95:13 100:22 103:8 121:16 127:11 mobilizing 53:5 model 18:17 150:20,24 151:4 183:12 193:10 193:11 modeled 97:10 modeling 174:20 models 151:3,6 193:20 modern 48:22 modernist 184:3 modernistic 123:8 modifications 59:11 modify 125:16 mom 87:9 moment 191:17 193:11 momentarily 166:14 moments 90:5 money 13:12 105:9 month 10:17,18 11:7,15 monument 98:5 120:19,20 monumental 86:20 monuments 98:4 moran 2:4 4:16 4:17 35:4,5,6,9 44:11 70:12,12 71:13 101:11,12 101:12 102:1,8 112:3,4 124:12 134:13,14 156:12,13 189:10 191:4 192:7,22 194:10 197:1,4,24 199:9 200:16,20 morning 3:2 12:19 30:25 54:10 140:21 mother 54:12 109:3 138:22 170:13 mothers 136:18 motifs 120:12 motion 17:17 18:3 23:4 34:17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 34:17 37:18 38:12 40:2,5,14 46:14 92:11,12 92:19 117:21 122:4,12 124:1 124:3,10,19,21 124:24,25 125:20 126:6 129:2,3 130:1,2 133:7,11 150:23 186:21 187:4 189:12,23 190:23,25 191:3 191:7,16,21 192:1,3,24,25 193:4,9 194:3 197:15,18 198:16 199:7,8 199:9,17,19,25 200:11,19 201:8 201:11,16,20 202:13 motion's 190:5 motions 41:17 46:6,15 85:6 91:21 92:19,22 189:1 190:15 191:19 193:1 201:20 motto 20:21 mountain 19:1 120:21 mounted 19:13 mouth 26:16 move 17:4 45:5 46:16 49:19 56:21 66:6 88:6 92:6 95:24 98:22 107:17 114:20 138:13 Meeting [move - notary] 143:2,11 145:5 189:15 191:4 200:1 moved 92:24 171:14,15 202:15 movement 38:12 136:3,3 168:7 moves 17:18 155:12 moving 23:19 24:18 54:25 57:9 99:5 115:6 119:5 144:10 147:4,24 188:17 multiple 19:1,1 19:15 71:23 123:22 138:3 murdered 51:2 muscles 153:15 museological 13:19 museum 13:12 183:6 music 10:22 54:7 mute 3:19 86:12 n n 2:1 name 3:22 4:6 6:17 28:4 60:7 62:4,10,13 65:18 71:3 74:6 74:18 75:21 77:18,19,22 80:21 81:10,10 88:8 100:23 101:3 103:24 104:22 106:5,9 111:15 115:17 September 27, 2022 Page 34 121:15 134:5 148:21 156:11 165:12 182:14 183:1 named 153:2 names 72:15 naming 59:22 narrator 155:10 narrow 188:10 nathan 10:4 nation 18:16 136:9 141:9 144:3 158:21 nation's 16:3 165:6 national 14:17 39:19 nations 19:2 53:4 native 13:25 nature 37:16 39:20 nay 192:6 202:19 nays 92:15 133:10 194:2 200:15 nazi 48:10 near 76:8 148:13 159:8 neat 87:20 109:1 necessarily 80:1 110:1 123:23 125:2 153:25 186:14 187:7 necessary 38:23 119:12 155:22 195:1,10,22 196:3 need 9:14 34:12 37:25 49:16 55:25 59:19,20 63:24 65:3 67:1 71:6 73:21 77:23 83:2 99:20 104:4 105:8 107:11 116:22,23 118:2 122:3 130:13 131:5 132:25 139:7,21 164:17 168:12,14 178:12 180:17 184:20 195:6,22 198:5,5 199:2 needed 115:1 133:1 146:17 166:18 needs 107:1 112:12 115:4 139:16 197:2 negative 62:18 71:5 79:22 111:18 175:5 neither 130:4 204:12 205:9 nerd 193:20 nested 72:15 net 194:22 201:12 never 30:6 70:2 97:24,24 98:16 99:2 101:21 108:6 112:23 118:21 137:4 157:1 184:4 197:18 new 13:7 48:13 48:21 64:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 94:11 100:18 122:4 124:5 126:4 130:8 135:25 148:18 180:9 news 2:15 6:9 nice 29:6,14,15 38:17 77:15,17 78:14 95:18,19 115:23 119:12 162:19 163:20 163:25 167:25 180:14 nicely 80:12 168:22,23 198:23 niece 139:16 night 156:23 nine 23:5 31:11 45:14,18,25 146:21 149:22 151:3 165:2 179:23,23,24 180:1,2 183:23 188:16,17,19,23 ninth 10:17 nitrate 93:24 nitrogen 94:2 nobel 49:10 53:6 non 19:11 51:13 94:11 120:17 normal 186:12 normally 168:19 norman 182:7 north 13:6 23:25 northeast 9:23 nose 193:12 notary 1:13 204:1,23 Meeting [note - occupations] note 3:5 21:22 22:8 49:14 55:21 57:19 58:4 73:15 99:19 100:21 130:15 144:3 147:8 183:17 noted 62:6 104:4 notes 64:12 139:3 notice 3:10 67:8 103:25 noticed 118:18 noting 30:2 notion 102:10 110:1 noun 168:10 november 202:22 nowadays 89:13 nuclear 49:9,13 52:22 53:1,3,5 nudged 136:1 number 9:24 10:18 23:6,10 29:12,20,25 30:5,13 31:20 31:24,25 32:4,5 32:7,21 33:1,2 33:15,17 34:15 34:21,23 35:16 35:16 37:21 40:6,10 43:24 45:14,15,16,17 45:18 62:2,3 66:9,13,18,24 66:25 67:9 68:24 69:5 71:1 71:2,8 74:23 75:17 77:10,16 September 27, 2022 Page 35 77:17,19 78:2 79:8,13,21 80:8 80:14 83:9,13 83:18 90:11 95:9 103:23 104:1,2 109:5 109:19,19 110:3 111:11 112:5 113:10,21 114:2 114:22 115:22 116:3,5 117:1 118:18 120:7 121:2,9,10,10 121:11,13,19 122:10,11 125:6 126:21 127:6 129:3,4 137:11 137:18,19 140:3 142:21,22 151:19 159:13 159:16,17,17 163:9,16 167:5 172:2,2,10 173:8,25 174:1 174:7 175:10,24 177:5 178:18 179:23 182:3 183:23 185:15 186:16,17 188:16 189:19 189:20,21 194:9 numerous 13:19 13:23 15:10 59:23,24 137:6 numismatic 2:6 4:25 13:4,7,11 numismatics 2:5 4:22 11:14 numismatists 13:16 nutrients 94:1 114:1 nutritious 99:17 nw 1:10 o oath 53:8 object 160:8 174:21 197:17 objected 198:8 objection 18:4 187:12 194:16 objections 18:3 194:2 objects 103:23 observation 150:16 169:1 198:18 observers 79:11 80:2 110:7 obtrusive 197:7 obverse 18:9 20:11 21:2,3 22:8,13,14,18 22:22,25 23:4 23:13,14 26:13 28:23 31:2,3,11 32:5 33:2,21 34:15 35:13,14 36:2,3,10 37:4,4 37:9,17 38:10 38:12,15 39:24 39:25 40:2,12 40:13 41:22 42:16,18 43:1,3 44:17 45:14,15 45:16,17,18,19 45:21,21 47:22 65:23 70:5 87:21 91:14,15 91:15,16,16,17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 91:17,18 135:1 137:23 138:3,4 138:4,5,5,8 140:2,5 143:14 143:15,15 144:4 144:6,8,11,18 145:5,6,14,15 145:21 146:4,10 146:21 148:8 153:21 156:14 157:6,20 159:1 160:19 161:16 162:4 163:3,8 165:16 166:3,7 166:11 167:2 168:3,4,5,13,17 168:18,20,24 169:14,18 170:4 170:4 172:3 173:10,22 175:1 175:10 176:19 178:7,10 180:1 180:2,17,20 181:1,5,5,11,17 186:15 187:16 188:11,12,13 189:4,4,17,23 191:6,18 193:5 197:6 198:19,25 obverses 143:18 146:10 147:24 148:20 158:13 162:1 obvious 143:18 158:22 obviously 56:11 172:24 occupations 172:8 Meeting [occupies - paired] occupies 88:5 occurred 66:5 odd 43:20 194:25 oddly 118:15 offer 39:23 44:9 124:25 125:13 126:8 offered 187:13 offers 143:14 office 2:9,21,24 6:20 8:4 9:4 18:8 49:23 50:3 91:25 94:22,24 100:25 103:23 105:13 121:7 132:24 133:20 152:6 office's 109:20 officer 112:16 204:3 official 13:16 officially 196:7 offset 24:11 offsets 113:25 oftentimes 82:14 oh 25:16 86:14 179:13 185:18 189:10 196:22 okay 17:2,9 31:18 50:10,11 50:12,17 55:9 57:3,9 85:12,12 98:21 99:5 103:17 104:6 108:1 110:5 125:15 137:24 137:25 139:23 140:14 141:20 145:4 155:18 September 27, 2022 Page 36 164:22,24 188:9 190:5,13 191:4 191:10,22 192:16,16,23 193:8,24 195:17 197:4 199:22,24 200:10 202:17 old 99:8 108:3 116:16 151:12 151:16,19,22 olsen 2:19 8:23 8:24 50:5,10 54:22 55:2 90:3 92:25 olympic 18:22 27:8 once 91:12 104:10 134:24 one's 52:7 oneness 107:3 ones 86:22 141:11 onward 193:14 open 48:20 66:1 105:16 107:13 136:1 162:17 184:18 191:10 opened 185:23 opening 67:20 operated 137:2 operating 109:2 operation 58:20 opinion 15:13 63:3 106:19 202:19 opinions 133:1 opportunities 116:21 136:1 opportunity 15:23 16:13 41:4 50:19 90:10 126:20 129:16 143:2 180:25 oppose 201:19 opposed 46:13 56:15 59:22 81:11 82:15 184:1 192:16 opposing 70:20 optimism 53:25 option 71:16 72:22,23 117:19 189:3 198:10 options 55:1 71:23 95:24 102:14,16 order 3:2 12:12 46:17 93:3 127:24 178:13 186:25 197:13 197:13 202:4 orders 182:16 organic 100:16 115:14 organization 52:25 53:6 organizations 13:20 oriented 40:14 original 29:19 97:4 130:16 138:23 189:8,10 originally 65:22 156:15 origins 183:9 ought 113:3 outcome 204:17 205:14 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 outcomes 52:3 outdoor 36:23 outer 24:15 99:8 outlier 31:19 32:6 68:5 outline 78:12 outlined 171:4 outside 111:2 127:13 outstanding 34:20 outward 23:1 overall 19:21 80:13 95:16 175:18 overarching 152:2 overlapped 16:15 overlapping 99:23 overseas 137:8 overstep 128:24 overstepped 107:12 overstepping 105:15 owens 10:24 owning 117:6 p p.m. 1:7 pacemakers 48:23 paddles 58:2,9 pair 149:9,14 161:22 180:17 198:18,19 paired 160:21 160:22,23,25 Meeting [pairings - phenomenal] pairings 161:24 pairs 180:21 pam 2:17 7:4 pandemic 14:6 panel 133:9 paneling 176:2 panels 149:21,24 161:8 174:3 paper 87:9 parent's 108:2 parson's 91:25 part 15:24 16:2 16:3 77:23 82:24 84:15 86:1 98:12 115:24 127:21 128:6 130:16 140:23 141:5 171:11 partially 98:17 participate 15:22 33:9 participated 44:16 133:20 participating 3:19 4:2 18:2 44:22 90:22 187:20 participation 16:3 particular 28:16 38:13 58:25 88:6 105:4,5 115:18 119:11 160:12 170:12 183:14 185:4 particularly 25:20 26:9 33:8 33:23 34:14,15 34:20,23 35:14 September 27, 2022 Page 37 35:25 36:2,4 38:2 79:9 parties 204:13 204:16 205:10 205:13 parts 10:1 115:21 pass 43:7 110:19 114:8 passed 30:3 46:14 133:11 139:1 passes 92:19 200:19 passion 42:25 54:5 passionate 54:12 passionately 67:13 passive 173:18 patch 148:21 patent 52:10 73:10 patience 12:8 17:11 64:8 85:4 patient 52:3 57:11 58:14 patients 48:24 52:13,15 patriot 10:4 patriots 10:21 pattern 9:17 paul 2:16 6:10 170:16 pause 17:25 90:5 138:1 pausing 166:15 pavement 22:17 pay 76:11 peace 49:10 51:5 53:6 peanut 99:24 100:18 peanuts 93:25 94:15 96:3 99:24 100:9,14 100:16 106:22 113:25 119:1,3 119:3 pearl 136:10 pearson 9:5 peas 93:25 pencils 9:25 pension 183:25 people 15:23 37:11,24 52:21 68:8,9 73:21 83:20,21 86:23 87:13 105:7,23 105:24,25 131:12 132:15 159:11 160:4,8 162:1 163:6,7 163:24 168:6 169:3 177:13 185:13,18 people's 90:10 181:3 peoples 172:6 perceive 108:16 performed 182:18 period 104:2 151:4 156:6 180:6,12 periodization 171:20 persecution 48:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 person 11:2 44:21 49:18 56:3 64:8,15 67:22,22,24 73:9 110:19 153:2 165:18 personal 10:25 20:8,21 39:19 39:20 51:10 73:14 170:15 personally 43:17 personifies 19:22 personnel 15:2 perspective 39:18 89:17 127:17 128:17 131:24 perspectives 131:21,22 pertaining 11:5 peter 2:6 4:25 33:4,6 64:16 78:21,23 109:9 109:11 111:4 134:9 150:15 155:19 157:21 159:14 160:24 174:14,16 191:13,25 193:3 peter's 111:16 ph 180:10 182:7 183:16 phalanx 146:24 phd 81:13 phds 83:4 phenomenal 12:6 41:15 129:15 177:25 Meeting [philadelphia - portraits] philadelphia 11:18 12:23 philip 2:20 9:3 phillip 91:24 94:22 phone 3:20 photograph 162:7,8,9,11 189:9 photographer 157:8,8 166:13 phrase 147:22 166:25 phyllis 2:22 9:9 137:14 138:20 physician 81:21 81:21 82:22 87:4 89:5,16 physicians 49:12 52:24 53:3,16 83:1,21 pick 34:14 65:7 65:8 70:13 84:7 109:8 picked 108:4 picking 28:24 169:5 picture 42:6 65:24 81:24,24 157:11 166:14 175:8 piece 35:13 113:17,17 183:16 pieces 26:3 pierson 2:21 pill 82:15 pinch 102:12 pinnacle 20:1 pioneer 48:6 52:1 place 18:24 57:8 68:2,15 71:10 78:16 81:9 116:12 163:13 163:15 178:23 179:4 190:21 202:23 placement 40:9 146:24 plane 162:19 167:6 179:2 184:22 planes 149:16 planet 52:23 87:13 plant 99:7 100:2 planted 42:11 plants 59:21 99:25 115:8,19 plates 158:2 167:10 platinum 11:20 play 103:1 107:23 pleasant 15:1 please 3:5 4:5 6:16 10:24 15:15 27:21 36:16 37:3 64:25 65:11 74:7 84:19 88:21 99:19 100:21 103:21 104:11,15 105:10 106:13 126:12 130:12 133:2 134:4 141:19 150:17 September 27, 2022 Page 38 155:25 164:14 189:14 192:11 194:14 197:12 201:9 pleased 15:4 16:20 55:5 78:6 80:18 109:18 pleasing 70:14 95:18 115:25 156:17,17 165:3 pleasure 8:13 15:21 16:17 plenty 71:4 101:18 plural 154:13 plus 169:10 point 10:25 25:9 27:22 29:18 30:5 33:11,22 84:25 89:6 91:19 97:1 102:13 108:17 117:21 119:10 132:8 133:12 155:5 167:11 181:10 186:25 189:6 197:12,13 198:15 pointed 40:7,13 42:3 66:21 89:13 108:25 183:10 194:6 pointing 30:13 173:25 points 45:14,15 45:16,17,18,20 45:22,24,24,25 46:2,4 74:12,23 78:15 91:13 113:23 178:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 179:20 182:2 188:11,19 politics 121:8 polka 144:14,20 149:19 popping 201:2 popular 153:4 population 16:4 portfolio 3:15 22:12 30:4 34:13 39:4 40:20 43:17 49:1,15,20 76:9 79:7 80:9 96:15 98:22 105:14 109:12,21 110:3 118:12 125:5 130:18 131:2 143:3,11 156:19 167:17,25 176:10 177:25 portfolios 13:23 portion 71:21 86:4 136:19 portrait 22:23 55:13 56:22 58:19,25 68:18 70:5,7 75:23 77:24 85:22,25 86:15,17 110:17 116:24 117:2 119:13,20 120:17 123:1,2 123:3,10,12,13 123:18 128:19 128:20 129:12 portraits 63:25 77:1 80:10 86:8 123:8 145:22 172:13 174:18 Meeting [portraits - probably] 174:22,24 177:1 portray 57:10 portrayal 109:24 portrayed 109:17 110:6 111:9 175:17 193:10 posed 177:1 position 31:21 128:23 142:10 199:15 positioned 94:6 149:9 possibilities 117:25 possibility 127:14 154:16 possible 38:21 45:20 48:20 57:1 59:14 91:13 188:11 196:14 post 173:5 182:8 poster 153:11,14 154:2 posters 153:7 potato 100:1,1 106:22 potatoes 94:15 96:3 potential 73:9 122:23 168:17 169:24 potentially 136:5 pound 123:5 pov 87:2 powered 136:25 September 27, 2022 Page 39 powering 145:24 practice 52:12 practices 99:13 practicing 52:18 pray 68:4 precisely 116:12 predecessors 12:5 preeminent 18:23 preface 78:24 prefer 3:8 38:18 67:9 81:9 106:5 113:13 171:7 preference 23:20 25:18 26:6,6,12 32:4 49:24 55:22 66:9,24,25 74:22 75:18 80:8,13 94:24 104:1 110:11 123:16 138:6 140:18 145:16 147:6,19 148:19 158:13,17 174:23 175:2,10 preferences 21:1 22:10 39:21 137:23 138:3,9 138:14 139:25 140:2 143:12,13 144:5,25 146:21 147:5 158:14 171:3 180:24 181:3 preferred 23:14 24:9 31:24 66:18 74:15 137:19 prefers 77:13 prepared 13:18 145:19 198:3 205:4 presence 134:4 present 2:15,18 4:6,8,11,14,17 4:20,23 5:1,4,7 5:10 6:17,19,22 6:25 7:3,5,7,9 7:12,18,21,24 8:9 14:9 15:4 16:13 18:9 44:25 45:11 46:22 58:7 91:10 93:5 95:12 134:6,8 134:10,12,16,18 134:20,22,25 140:1 188:7 presentation 5:16 12:13,18 115:15 presented 3:16 42:18 47:17,19 112:4 126:4 presents 58:18 preserve 53:8 preserving 100:6 presidential 10:13 press 6:6 11:18 138:3 pressure 121:6 prestigious 19:12 pretty 26:11,19 36:6 74:7 121:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 142:24 163:4 169:18 173:5 177:18 prevention 49:12 53:3 previous 23:7 47:23 62:6 previously 57:4 57:18 140:17 166:23 prichard 154:5 primarily 175:1 primary 62:8 94:6 127:18 principle 20:9 printout 70:16 prior 13:9 16:19 65:2 69:17 104:13 156:2 204:6 pritchard 2:22 9:10 137:15 140:21 141:20 143:6 151:15 152:1,21,24 154:12,15 155:3 155:16 184:15 184:16 186:6 201:24 privilege 11:1 16:1 105:2 126:9 128:24 171:11 privy 47:24 prize 49:11 53:7 probably 8:15 11:13 12:9 60:8 71:9 82:13 84:1 84:21 88:6 108:2,13,15 Meeting [probably - question] 109:20 112:22 116:5 121:13,17 122:13 174:18 178:3,8,9,12,15 181:17 problem 84:15 177:12,12 problems 79:22 procedure 16:2 proceed 55:9 150:17 proceeding 17:7 45:8 91:6 133:24 188:4 203:4 205:6 proceedings 6:4 204:4,6,7,10 205:7 process 92:3 100:19 124:8 187:15 produce 99:8,23 produced 11:11 14:17 123:21,23 123:25 producing 93:24 product 174:2 production 11:19 100:19 150:20,25 157:9 157:13,17 169:7 193:13 products 94:15 173:19 professional 19:19 52:21 136:21 professionally 11:24 September 27, 2022 Page 40 professions 143:22 professor 116:23 profile 32:16 37:13 40:3 55:13 58:19 87:11,14,17 101:20 115:6 174:24 profiles 143:19 144:12 175:8 profit 52:10 73:10 profound 161:11 profoundly 51:3 136:2 program 3:21 14:2 25:5 27:21 27:24 47:3,22 51:8 53:14 56:3 59:5 65:11,13 67:18 69:10,12 69:16,17 101:9 104:15 130:17 130:19,22 131:6 135:5 137:11 150:12 156:4 prohibited 85:21 project 36:20 63:14 65:3,5 95:6 138:25 148:4 175:19 projecting 23:1 proliferation 49:9 prominent 60:9 115:18 promise 104:18 promising 107:9 promotion 100:5 prop 106:18 properly 14:7 proposals 14:15 26:17 198:2 propose 190:10 prospective 86:23 110:4 protect 53:8 protective 142:23 protested 51:20 proud 55:4 69:4 proudly 116:17 proven 130:10 provide 72:8 76:17 107:20 provided 10:11 15:6 81:19 135:14 providing 13:22 135:9 public 1:13 2:2,6 3:7,24 4:1,7 5:3 5:12,15,17 6:7 12:14 14:10,11 14:13,19 15:4 17:14 18:12 41:3,8 42:3 47:3 48:6 49:6 53:16 53:18 73:16 82:12 83:7 84:17 105:22 107:24 132:19 135:5 164:23 202:2,6 204:1 204:23 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 publication 13:16 published 3:10 publishing 2:17 6:12 pull 122:3 130:14 185:25 pun 73:25 punches 130:14 purpose 187:1,3 190:2 pursue 126:20 purview 39:17 put 26:16 31:22 38:16 62:12 77:22 106:9 112:5 159:15 161:18,19 164:15 179:4 184:18 196:19 196:21 199:3 putting 115:8 120:17 122:20 q qualifications 77:14 qualified 2:3,3,5 2:6 4:9,12,21,24 13:4 204:8 quarter 14:2 40:3 quarters 130:17 131:8 question 9:13 25:9,13,21,25 46:10 61:2,24 62:1,2 75:11 84:9,11 126:18 131:23 132:2 151:10,14 154:7 Meeting [question - receptivity] 154:24 158:25 164:13 178:18 180:2 183:8 189:7 191:14 193:16 194:13 195:24 196:8 198:3 200:16 201:7 questions 21:8 22:4 25:4 26:22 27:20 49:22 50:6 56:19 59:4 59:10 63:17 65:10 83:20 84:4,17,19 85:13 89:25 95:22 101:8 103:9,15 104:9 104:14 143:3 150:11 156:3,7 202:9 quick 26:1,3 41:21 69:11 132:10 134:2 quite 73:22 76:3 77:1,2 78:8 79:20 84:15 104:8 109:12 120:11 126:17 139:5,17 175:12 175:23 176:1 178:4 quorum 5:14 134:24 quota 51:12 quotation 29:13 31:10 quote 24:3,7,17 38:19 78:11 117:17 135:11 September 27, 2022 Page 41 r r07 157:6 r1 165:18 r5 157:21 r7 157:6,6 race 19:12 23:5 23:11 42:7,9 races 23:24 141:8 144:2 148:6 150:1,6 158:22 159:10 164:18 172:6 racial 173:13 racist 51:17 radical 196:24 railroaded 22:2 raised 79:14 84:23 88:12 100:13 119:1 154:11 180:2 192:11 raising 102:10 ralph 69:22 range 83:22 159:4,11 ranges 19:1 raw 94:9 reached 20:1 reaching 64:11 reaction 111:6 121:2 read 24:8 54:9 83:17 106:16 108:5 117:9,9 117:10,11,11,18 readable 178:14 reader 117:8 readily 60:18 87:11 reading 54:11 109:1 117:17 readout 60:6 reads 146:16 179:21 ready 3:15 real 26:1,2 69:11 111:14,19 163:6 174:1 179:3 reality 53:22 172:20 realized 156:20 really 16:6 22:1 26:14 28:11,19 28:21 29:5,20 33:9 34:20 36:5 37:4,7,20 38:1 38:11 54:21 64:7,22 66:1,20 70:18 71:7 73:7 73:8,13,23 75:25 76:16,22 76:24 80:9 82:5 82:21 83:5,15 87:19,20 88:24 90:9,25 92:3 95:7,9,13 97:9 97:22 98:15 101:1 102:12 108:25 109:14 109:17,18,22,25 110:9,14 111:7 113:3 116:15 119:14,15 120:7 120:8 121:19 122:3 123:3 129:10 133:21 139:13,18 140:9 140:22 160:22 160:24 161:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 161:23 164:20 165:2,12,17,19 169:25 172:2,9 173:1,7,20 175:1,11,13 178:4,22 180:24 184:10,16,18,20 185:4,7 186:5 197:18 201:1,25 reappointed 13:3 rearranged 107:12 reason 74:14,23 92:22 100:24 116:4 119:17 129:19 130:13 158:25 171:10 reasonably 172:1 187:21 reasons 74:4 80:25 114:12 116:4 119:16 120:8 121:14 123:25 129:20 166:10,22 171:7 received 30:17 44:23 45:14,15 45:16,17,18,19 45:23,24,25 46:1,3,4 90:20 90:23 91:14,15 91:15,16,17,17 91:18,18,19 93:18 120:25 187:20 receptive 89:11 receptivity 186:23 Meeting [recessed - remotely] recessed 133:17 140:10 recipes 99:17 100:18 recipient 14:24 recognition 12:16 18:15 135:12 recognize 45:10 59:8 83:2,18 89:12 91:9 101:11 188:6 recognized 16:9 27:23 52:14 65:12 104:17 recognizes 14:11 recognizing 89:4 recommend 56:5 61:17,21 72:9 82:20 190:9 recommendati... 23:15,21 24:10 49:25 55:23 68:14 72:23 96:11 103:3 130:25 147:7,20 170:3 186:19 195:19 197:22 198:22 recommendati... 22:11 158:8 202:10 recommended 2:4,7,8 4:15,18 5:5,8 49:15 55:24 58:4 92:7 99:19 138:8,12 144:6,9 September 27, 2022 Page 42 recommending 54:18 193:5 reconsider 125:5 reconsidering 132:20 reconvene 133:22 record 6:13 11:1 22:3 26:24 69:20 71:15 85:20 140:1 179:21 199:16 199:22 204:10 205:7 recorded 3:5 134:3 204:7 recording 204:9 205:5 recruited 135:22 recruiting 170:19 recruitment 135:19 redesigning 128:16 reduce 27:1 reduced 204:8 reduction 82:10 178:12 reenter 64:8 refer 3:8 references 101:19 146:1 referred 118:20 135:11 referring 165:9 182:5,6 reflected 21:1 reflects 90:12 refrain 27:21 65:11 104:15 refugee 50:25 refused 51:16 52:9 regard 129:25 201:11 regarded 15:11 regarding 85:16 89:9 95:8 regardless 43:15 regimented 169:8 register 3:11 regret 10:5 regular 13:14 56:24 regularness 66:23 regulations 136:15 reimagined 107:11 reinforce 138:14 155:4 reinforcing 23:4 reinstated 51:21 reiterate 42:14 95:7 199:4 reject 124:3 125:9,17 rejecting 125:25 176:16 relabeling 51:18 related 11:6 176:15,18 177:6 204:12 205:9 relating 14:15 49:22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 relationship 131:20 relative 204:15 205:12 relatively 79:16 relatives 163:14 release 11:19 relevance 154:19,20 relevant 40:25 relief 161:7 remain 47:23 59:17 remarkable 67:22,25 68:8 68:25 96:6 remarks 110:25 111:17 remedied 101:16 102:23 104:5 remember 9:24 65:3 74:6 87:7 105:22 108:1 130:16 155:9 remembered 112:14 remind 3:17,24 27:13 39:14 57:7 64:25 104:11 155:25 reminded 30:14 70:2 reminder 15:1 28:5 74:5 134:3 202:1 reminds 172:11 remiss 10:15 11:6 remotely 2:15 2:18 3:19 6:6 Meeting [remove - reverse] remove 138:11 195:2 removed 57:5,19 59:12 77:21 144:10 201:14 renaissance 86:21 183:8,15 rendered 99:3 repair 19:16 repeat 14:19 26:1,2 88:20 139:24 replace 62:10 127:11 replicas 41:5 report 68:12,13 203:2 reported 1:13 reporter 28:1 36:18 65:16 104:20 156:8 represent 54:18 100:17 129:23 139:9 143:21 144:12 145:6,17 145:21 146:5,11 146:22 149:10 representation 22:20 24:2 29:14 79:24,25 82:2 112:7 116:15,24 128:8 131:16 representative 8:18 21:7 50:7 50:21 132:23 133:19 representatives 49:25 133:3 September 27, 2022 Page 43 represented 56:11 representing 2:2 2:6 4:7 5:2,12 23:10 141:15 144:16,19 145:23 147:15 148:3 173:12 represents 9:21 56:22 99:11 republican 183:21 request 60:24 97:13,21 126:3 142:16 requested 14:25 138:10 required 55:10 74:16 94:19 195:11,13,14 requirement 49:17 56:2 130:25 131:11 requirements 60:13 74:25 requires 47:5 130:23 requiring 154:9 research 48:11 51:23 83:10 reserve 103:13 resident 32:12 residents 54:11 resistance 135:25 resolve 200:2 resounding 25:18 26:7 resources 20:3 170:22 respect 28:22 35:10 36:9 37:20 39:20 70:8 82:23 85:2 105:11 133:7 178:14 respected 15:12 respond 4:5 responsibility 52:25 53:9 responsible 27:5 48:16 170:19 rest 98:22 123:16 156:19 157:23 174:23 resting 147:12 restored 94:2 restriction 151:11 result 27:11 147:2 157:2 158:7 results 45:1,12 91:10 188:8 resuscitation 48:21 retain 71:20 97:3 return 31:16 86:13 197:14 returning 9:23 18:6 85:5 reunion 80:20 reveal 96:3 revered 93:13 reverse 5:23 18:10 20:15,20 21:2,4 22:9 23:19,22 24:1,5 24:8,9,18,22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 25:20 26:9,14 29:8 31:2,5 32:6 32:24 33:1,22 33:23 34:21,21 34:23 35:15,15 36:7,11 37:20 37:21 38:2,17 38:19,24 42:16 42:19 44:18 45:23,24,25,25 46:2,3,3,4,23 47:6 70:14 85:11 87:21 90:18 92:8 93:5 135:1 138:7,7 138:12 139:11 139:13 140:16 140:17 141:18 141:20,25 142:3 145:2,3 147:6,9 147:11 148:9 149:1,7,13,18 149:21 150:2,21 151:5 153:23 157:20 158:6 159:17 160:23 161:15,20,21,22 162:2,3,18,21 162:23 163:21 165:15 166:21 167:13,14 168:3 168:5,9,18,25 168:25 169:14 169:21,21 170:4 170:5 172:22 173:8,24 175:12 175:24 177:10 177:15 178:8,14 179:23,24 180:18,21 181:2 Meeting [reverse - rosie] 181:12,18 182:13 184:21 185:2,12 186:16 187:16 188:18 189:17,24 191:5 191:6,18 193:5 197:6 198:19 reverses 45:23 143:17 147:4 148:9,20 150:18 150:19,22 151:2 159:12 168:13 172:19 175:11 177:10 188:18 reverting 123:18 review 3:12,15 5:20,22,25 17:12 21:11 49:20 83:7 203:1 reviewed 13:25 14:23 reviewing 20:12 105:2 202:2 revised 138:11 revision 97:6 120:11 revisit 101:23 revolutionary 39:16 revote 180:22 181:4 rewind 180:8 reworking 96:13 rhythm 56:24 rhythms 48:14 48:25 richmond 138:24 September 27, 2022 Page 44 rid 177:11 rider 38:25 rider's 183:18 riding 22:15 23:16 34:18 43:19,21 rifle 145:12 right 41:20 43:6 57:12 66:21 67:15,16 68:1 68:14,20,22 71:1 72:12 86:18 97:17 99:5 100:17 102:20,21,23,23 109:2 112:12 113:15,24 115:6 117:9 121:16 123:1,18 124:23 125:23 126:2 138:1,2 139:17 139:20 154:5 157:10,12 159:21 161:17 162:8 163:19 164:10 169:12 181:21 183:9,17 183:22 185:14 192:22,23 198:4 198:17 rights 39:23 136:2,3 ring 147:16 rings 24:22 risk 51:11 rivera 205:3,20 rivet 144:22 145:18 146:13 147:13 148:1,12 149:10 159:20 159:25 169:2,12 175:20,22 176:8 177:12 178:24 179:4,11,13 182:13,21,24,25 riveted 146:15 149:4,21,24 158:2 161:8 riveter 2:21,23 6:3 9:7,8,10,11 135:3,12,15 137:13,15,16 141:7 142:13 143:24 144:1,18 145:14,20 146:3 146:8 147:3,23 148:21,23 149:20 150:14 151:11 152:4,12 152:25 153:2,5 153:9,16 154:13 154:22 155:8 157:3 166:20 170:15 173:4 176:11,14 177:17 179:15 182:13,23 183:2 187:18 201:3 riveters 154:10 154:21 riveting 176:18 177:15,20 rivets 136:23 144:23 146:7 147:17 148:15 148:22 165:21 172:23 174:3 176:2,15 177:14 179:2,7,15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 ro3 139:6,13 140:9 road 24:12 robert 2:13 5:17 8:7 12:15 13:2 15:5,16,18 16:11 28:9,11 robin 2:3 4:13 38:7,10 40:7 63:5,10 64:16 74:8,10 78:7 114:20,22 121:14 134:15 166:5,6 167:22 168:12 174:2 192:13,14 195:3 195:4 robin's 64:6 robyn 78:10 rockwell's 182:8 rod 58:11 rodin 86:16 rodin's 86:4,8 rog 72:12 roger 2:10 7:6 72:1,1 role 18:17 27:10 49:2 110:14 124:18 roles 9:19 107:22 172:15 roll 134:2 roman 183:11 room 1:11 36:19 65:4 131:13 rosie 2:21,22 6:3 9:7,8,9,11 135:3 135:11,15 137:13,15,16 140:25 141:7 Meeting [rosie - scott] 142:13 143:24 144:1,17 145:1 145:10,13,18,20 146:3,8 147:3 147:11,23,25 148:21,22 149:19 150:13 151:11,20,25 152:4,11,19,20 152:25 153:2,4 153:9,16,20,24 154:21,21 155:8 157:3 166:20 170:15 173:4 176:10,14 177:16 182:13 182:23 183:1 187:18 201:3 rosie's 143:20 144:12,17,18 145:6,17,24 146:5,11,12,21 147:2,16 148:8 148:10 149:12 150:3 151:1,6 151:19 rosies 154:9,13 154:13 rotation 93:23 100:6,10,16 106:8,10 108:24 109:13 110:2,16 111:25 112:8 113:23 115:24 119:2 121:12 round 17:1 55:20 86:4,8 159:20 rounds 54:10 100:12 September 27, 2022 Page 45 rule 33:15,17 rules 33:13 197:19 running 137:9 rural 100:8 russell 7:8 ryder 14:25 s s 2:1 sacrificing 19:5 safe 162:13,13 203:3 safety 136:15 sake 3:7 66:7 salad 158:18 salman 134:15 134:16 166:6,6 192:15 salmon 2:3 4:13 4:14 38:8,9,10 63:5,5,16 74:8,9 74:10,12 114:21 114:22 169:12 195:3,3,5,11,17 195:21 salute 27:9 sam 2:2 4:7 35:18,21 39:11 65:20,22 113:7 113:10 119:10 119:17,21 134:19 162:25 163:2 samuel 10:21 sanctioned 196:7 sarah 2:22 9:10 137:15 140:20 143:9 151:13 152:25 184:15 201:24 satellite 53:11 satisfactory 121:5 saturday 156:22 173:5 182:8 save 148:6 150:1 150:6 saved 42:24 69:1 69:1 160:24 saving 122:9 saw 32:12 38:3 119:3,4,4,5 120:16 176:11 saying 6:16 17:22 78:3 83:3 105:16 108:18 112:14 116:11 117:5,15 119:22 122:15 128:23 158:20 181:15 197:21 says 71:1 84:9 141:7 scarcini 190:24 191:12 192:24 199:24 200:1 scarinci 2:5 4:19 25:8,12,15,16 25:17 26:4,21 34:7,7 42:22 61:24 62:1,2,12 67:13 69:8 70:4 70:9 71:14 114:11 121:23 121:25,25 133:12 160:3,6 160:6 179:20 180:1 189:12,15 189:21,25 190:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 190:7 193:16 199:13,20 scarinici 4:20 scarves 160:14 scenes 70:6 scheduled 202:22 schematic 149:20 scholars 53:14 53:19 school 9:23 48:7 51:12,19,21 53:15 73:16,19 school's 93:22 science 51:24 100:4 111:23 120:24 scientific 78:1 83:10 96:5 scientist 11:8 51:23 94:12 96:18 105:7 108:12 128:2 scientists 83:9 scooch 88:7 score 44:17,20 45:3 57:6 90:17 91:13 scorer 45:20 46:2 scores 91:14 scoresheet 44:25 90:21 187:19 scoring 45:2,12 45:13 57:8,20 91:10 187:2,3 187:16 188:8 scott 120:1 Meeting [screen - settled] screen 139:20 142:7 sculpted 43:25 97:10 sculptor 70:5 120:2 sculptural 98:13 sculpture 2:3 4:13 70:6 87:1 98:14 seamlessly 155:12 search 52:2 seated 182:5 seattle 171:13 second 17:19,20 18:1 19:4 34:8 36:15 51:2 61:2 92:9,11 93:2 124:11,12,20 138:1 142:20 159:7 189:18 190:1,21,23,24 191:1,3,8,9 193:15,18,22,24 197:8,9 200:5,7 200:8,10 201:15 seconds 202:16 secretary 5:19 11:16 14:14 17:14 47:5,13 49:15 55:25 202:25 secretary's 14:22 see 20:15 29:12 31:12 33:19 37:12,14,15 43:18 49:1 52:13 55:5,6 September 27, 2022 Page 46 56:5 57:6 61:3 61:13 67:2,2,6 68:7 75:24 86:4 86:7,14,16,25 97:7 101:20 106:7,19 108:10 111:8,12 113:16 113:19 114:5,9 114:14 117:19 120:15 122:4 123:4 128:7 131:15 132:14 132:14,15 138:16,25 139:2 140:12 141:25 143:14 146:19 152:13 155:21 157:16 160:4,7 162:5,14 164:16 164:18,22,24 167:25 172:4,5 172:7 177:16 178:25 180:9,20 181:6,24 187:14 189:16 199:1 200:4 seeing 9:16 38:2 46:15 74:2 87:5 105:23 106:21 106:24 112:19 142:7 170:2 192:2 200:12 201:16 203:3 seen 96:23 113:20 146:18 179:3 183:21 sees 89:15 132:19 segregated 51:16 select 110:9 selected 18:22 26:14 31:2 41:22 42:6,19 42:24 56:14 81:5 150:22 180:21 selection 32:20 34:10 35:2 43:16 95:8 109:20 selections 31:14 33:10,21 35:7 35:10 110:3 self 32:23 sell 87:23 seller 52:18 semantics 70:3 semi 72:17 seminar 13:18 seminars 13:19 semitism 51:1 senate 2:4 4:15 4:18 send 121:4 126:23 sending 117:22 senior 2:9,12,16 2:17,19 6:11,12 6:23 7:22 8:17 21:6 sense 25:11 28:14 41:5,6 42:14,15 125:12 164:20 186:4 187:11,14 197:4 197:21 198:13 sensitivity 28:14 sentiment 123:2 167:23 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 separate 73:24 separated 128:22 september 1:6 3:4 9:21 10:2,7 10:9,11,18 11:7 11:12,15,18 12:4,5 septima 69:22 series 14:4 67:16 67:19,20 68:2,5 68:16 69:20,21 76:21,23 77:1,4 81:16 84:6 99:15 122:24 123:16,20,21 129:4,6 140:3 143:15 146:9 serious 176:22 serve 51:25 93:22 served 13:5,8,10 13:13 14:13 service 5:17 12:15,16 14:8 14:10,11,19 15:4,17,24 18:16 24:13 28:18 73:19 163:14 182:17 serving 28:16 73:4 137:7 set 22:20 28:12 47:25 99:3 122:4 124:5 170:24 sets 194:25 settle 108:20 settled 65:22 66:8,13 166:10 Meeting [seven - six] seven 45:19,22 45:23 46:1 100:13 103:23 109:5 111:13 118:18 121:19 122:17 125:9 126:21 127:7 146:4 149:14 157:7 162:3,4 166:10 167:2 176:20 188:15 188:15,22 189:5 189:17,24 190:22 seventeen 188:18 shape 62:24,25 72:17 200:24 shaped 47:24 51:3 share 21:10 26:24 81:20 85:15 88:1 107:18 114:4 138:17,18 shared 54:14 82:11 116:14 sharing 99:14 she'll 8:2 sheet 44:21 149:4 sheets 45:12 57:6 91:11 188:8 shifting 59:16 ship 147:13 148:2,14 149:2 149:8,23 167:6 172:24 178:24 184:22 September 27, 2022 Page 47 ships 112:19 149:15 shipyards 138:24 short 138:22 shortage 135:18 shorten 113:11 shortened 24:16 shorthand 67:5 shot 187:24 shoulder 86:4 147:12 159:18 shoulders 49:18 56:2 85:22 86:18 130:12 shout 172:11 174:11 show 21:3 116:19,23,24 117:6 119:12,14 123:9 142:2,20 142:24 164:15 166:11 168:6,6 168:9,15 showed 159:5 showing 55:15 166:1 168:14 185:14,19,20 shown 23:7 43:18 141:12 shows 22:18 32:1 37:7,17,18 42:7 58:1,11 63:23 74:16 78:11 142:18 159:10 163:15 166:23 177:12 shrunk 72:13 side 58:9 70:21 113:4 115:7 141:14,18,21,21 141:25 142:3,18 163:21 166:17 167:2 168:4 173:16 176:19 183:17,20 185:9 198:20 sidebar 12:11 sides 74:1 200:21,22 sign 142:20 signals 146:2 signature 24:8 32:9 38:22 144:14,20 145:8 204:21 205:19 significance 9:19 11:14,16 39:1 41:1 significances 110:7 significant 11:10 69:3 136:8,18 184:25 signify 17:22 signing 6:7 silent 98:25 silhouette 38:24 81:2 87:8 147:1 148:12,14 158:1 158:1,4 163:22 193:9 silhouetted 167:6 silhouettes 87:9 149:2,15 161:10 163:23 165:24 similar 87:23 131:4 145:11 180:5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 similarity 81:8 simple 71:4 76:23 111:17 167:10 171:8 simplicity 79:21 110:11 167:6 175:6 simplified 158:20 simply 29:11 34:12 42:19 79:8 115:13 146:19 175:2 single 80:21 125:3 138:6 sink 102:5,6 sir 8:7 15:19 73:1 88:9 158:9 196:18 200:18 203:2 sistine 182:7,9 sitting 138:21 six 22:25 24:18 30:1 31:24 32:5 33:2,23 34:15 34:24 35:13 36:7 37:17 38:2 38:12 39:25 40:2,13 43:1,3 45:17 46:3 57:25 62:3,3 68:24 69:5 77:16,17,19 100:4 106:4,6 111:24 112:5 113:21 115:22 116:16 121:10 121:11 125:8 136:5 138:23 145:21 149:7 Meeting [six - staff] 163:9 164:20 172:10 188:15 188:15,17,19,20 188:21,22 192:16 size 72:12 79:16 172:24 173:15 179:8 sizes 72:4,5 skills 204:11 205:8 skin 160:4,7 skull 101:14 slatted 99:9 slavery 93:17 slight 96:12,24 97:6 102:11 slightly 56:6 96:21 97:25 131:6 138:10 slogan 146:2 slogans 177:8 small 79:16 100:2 109:15 smaller 179:8,10 social 51:4,10 52:24 society 9:19 13:7 100:22 154:20 socks 73:7 soil 94:1,2 96:4 100:6 109:3 soldier's 145:11 soldiers 145:9 148:3 159:3 solemn 53:8 solidified 197:19 solution 108:15 117:1,3 122:18 September 27, 2022 Page 48 solve 166:19 somebody 43:18 55:3 118:1 120:20 159:24 173:3 178:25 something's 126:14 somewhat 33:14 33:24 161:11 song 153:3,5,6 153:11,15 154:2 155:5,6 sonoma 32:11 32:13 sorry 8:20 25:16 44:4 60:16 62:3 67:15 69:9 70:23 71:11 74:20 86:14 87:24 103:20 104:7 107:1,12 121:9,25 126:12 127:10 141:23 145:1 148:9 152:18 154:6,12 162:4 179:14 185:1 191:25 192:7 193:2 196:22 sort 66:20,23 72:16 77:16 78:9 79:24 80:6 110:18 140:12 158:23 173:18 174:17 175:15 177:3 185:21,25 197:19 sorts 120:23 source 101:18 south 94:7 115:21 southern 93:16 94:11 100:8 soybeans 94:16 100:1 space 62:18 71:5 79:22 88:5 111:18 156:16 175:5,6 spaced 163:5 spanning 19:1 spared 42:24 speak 3:22 28:2 31:1 36:16,20 41:20,24 49:19 65:17 71:22 76:20 80:23,24 82:21 97:8 102:15 103:14 104:21 129:2 156:9 speaker 2:7 5:5 8:2,15,22 62:22 65:7 69:19 86:9 92:16 181:20 192:18 193:22 speakers 65:7 86:12 speaking 28:5 50:21 51:6 65:2 65:19 74:7 75:9 80:18 104:13,23 141:5 156:2,11 191:24 speaks 40:2 special 124:6 202:8 specialist 2:9 6:24 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 specially 4:9,12 4:21,24 specific 20:25 49:22 153:19 176:18 198:21 specifically 13:4 47:16 56:16 125:6 157:5,21 spectrum 131:15 speed 22:22 32:1 37:18 38:13 40:6 spell 84:3 99:20 spelled 67:3 71:4 100:24 103:24 spells 74:17 75:21 spend 52:20 169:25 spent 118:11 spite 51:25 splits 55:14 spoke 75:25 167:8 sponsored 32:13 sport 18:21 20:2 22:1 sports 10:24 19:14 27:1 spread 114:13 springs 13:13 sprocket 24:3 sprung 97:18 spur 41:1 stabilizer 193:12 stable 55:19 stack 88:8 stacked 44:3 staff 6:14 89:9 130:6 199:10 Meeting [staff - subverts] 202:7 stafford 2:9 6:20 6:22 18:8,12 22:7 25:21 47:1 50:13,16 54:20 55:8 59:14 61:11,16,20 64:5 71:11 86:11 88:11 93:8 95:23 98:21 99:5 104:3 130:3 134:25 135:4 139:22,23 140:14 141:19 143:1,8 145:4 151:13 194:8,18 196:9,19,21 202:15 stages 23:10 stakeholder 25:9 35:23 36:10 stakeholder's 35:2,7,10 stakeholders 25:13 37:2 38:6 105:12 stamps 119:19 stand 21:25 92:20 145:10 188:1 198:9 standing 109:24 145:9 146:23 185:21 standpoint 114:2 163:10 stands 29:24 32:20 star 78:10 148:25 September 27, 2022 Page 49 starburst 56:25 57:16,22 80:5 stars 32:2 start 9:13 17:10 22:14 28:6 55:12 95:25 112:12 143:18 147:10 156:14 158:12 192:8 started 66:16 78:16 150:21 183:15 starting 22:13 163:2 state 28:4 46:25 47:8,21 52:19 55:3 65:18 69:3 74:6 80:21 93:7 93:9 95:12,15 100:22 103:8 104:22 121:16 156:11 199:25 state's 95:16 stated 52:8 81:1 82:8 116:4 120:9 166:23 171:8 statement 103:7 182:22 198:13 states 10:9,16 12:25 14:18 15:10 27:3,7 47:10,11,15,18 48:18 55:11 68:6 69:17 94:20 100:8 119:19 135:8,13 171:22 statistics 157:2 statue 70:6 stay 117:13 stencil 148:25 step 176:9 stepped 111:1 137:5,5 143:22 sternum 86:3,19 stimulate 84:4 stimulating 84:17 stipulated 140:17 stir 83:19 stitched 118:25 stone 98:6 stones 103:2 stood 51:9 172:19 stop 129:18 138:13 165:19 stories 52:17 story 70:24 114:4,5 127:20 127:21 139:12 139:14 164:1 169:17 storyteller 54:5 straight 186:21 strange 102:12 strategies 53:18 street 1:10 strength 172:4 strengthen 101:21 stress 49:8 52:6 striking 28:25 29:4,20 stripes 32:2 strong 96:11 97:1 98:24 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 121:2 123:2 130:9 141:16 174:17 175:4,13 175:25 197:22 stronger 141:11 175:3 strongly 42:16 127:1 struck 29:16,20 40:11 114:22 116:15 156:24 struggle 77:8 79:7 struggled 76:10 109:12 struggling 110:9 stuck 75:8 students 51:13 studied 93:19 studying 52:6 170:1 stuff 17:4 72:7,9 108:19 158:19 style 123:9 165:10 180:5 183:23 styles 184:1 stylization 184:3 184:3 stylized 58:14 subject 9:1 114:23 115:11 158:6 subsequent 16:20 substituted 167:4 subverts 173:10 175:18 Meeting [successful - team] successful 116:20 successfully 110:13 115:10 sudden 52:4 suffer 60:17 suffered 156:25 sufficiently 40:24 suggest 65:4 71:19 110:14 150:23 151:5 suggested 77:21 88:18 suggesting 56:25 100:15 suggestion 89:9 147:21 187:13 suggestions 83:13 suite 18:19 sullivan 2:9 6:23 6:25 sum 38:25 summa 51:9 summer 13:18 superimposed 24:2,6 superior 118:17 supplied 137:8 supplies 60:18 136:25 support 33:20 34:10 35:22 42:25 43:9,16 68:16,24 71:8 80:25 90:11 96:12 100:25 111:5 135:17 192:1 September 27, 2022 Page 50 supported 43:8 supporting 41:11 46:7 suppose 103:13 supposed 70:1 79:17 162:20 supreme 10:19 sure 11:12 17:25 26:4,10 28:9 30:14 31:8 35:23 36:20 60:1 63:13 65:3 69:14 71:15 73:17 79:23 89:15 90:6 97:12 99:1 116:2 121:3 132:22 141:19 160:11 161:20 162:5 164:8,13 166:16 168:13 173:5 178:6 179:7 187:14 199:17,23 surface 24:13 146:15 surgeries 19:15 surgery 48:20 surrounded 144:22 suspended 51:19 suspension 51:20 sweep 23:24 sweet 94:15 96:3 100:1,1 106:22 sweetgrass 109:2 swirling 32:1 switching 141:24 147:22 sworn 204:6 syllable 80:22 symbol 58:13 182:22 symbolic 87:23 131:24 symbolically 56:11 60:23 128:19 164:11 182:19,21 symbolism 43:21 74:19 132:4 173:1 symbolize 58:16 symbolizes 100:3 symbols 29:7 synchrony 178:7 system 51:17 53:23 112:15 187:1,2 t t 2:1,1 93:20 113:18 120:3 table 126:6 129:14 133:8 181:22 191:7,17 199:7,17 take 10:25 17:3 41:6 45:1 53:7 62:9 91:2,2 112:19 121:8 124:23 126:9 132:7 134:2 155:20 158:25 166:14 176:9,15 186:21 199:1 202:23 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 taken 17:6 45:7 91:5 112:18 116:22 133:23 188:3 204:4,14 205:11 takes 18:24 57:8 talk 44:5 82:14 98:11 118:22 141:18 168:1,3 talked 121:14 174:3 talkers 14:4 talkie 86:9 talking 3:21 41:3 62:18 63:20 86:23 102:8 105:6 106:11 118:13 119:16 121:12 145:2 153:10 184:4 tallied 46:8 tally 44:25 91:3 tallying 45:2 tandem 122:24 tank 53:21 147:14 148:2 149:3 167:7 196:19,21 tape 70:16 task 127:24 taught 13:17 87:15 teach 111:22 team 18:22 56:4 64:10 71:18 97:1 117:22 130:11 198:25 199:5 Meeting [teammates - things] teammates 19:5 19:7 teams 3:20 126:15 technical 25:4 59:4 101:7 103:11 141:2 150:10 technique 48:19 techniques 48:21 99:17 technological 48:22 technology 51:25 52:1 64:9 techy 123:15 telephone 70:22 tell 63:2 110:25 113:23 114:3 116:17 126:25 127:19 139:11 139:12,14 164:12,15 167:18 169:17 telling 43:8 60:20 128:18 tells 164:1,22,24 template 72:3,5 72:13 templates 72:6 ten 33:15,17 45:4,6 46:3 108:2 150:2 174:7 188:1,23 tenacity 20:6,8 tend 154:21 176:15 tendon 19:16 tentatively 202:22 September 27, 2022 Page 51 tenure 14:24 15:3 term 15:2 16:15 135:15 152:22 152:23 terms 32:5 102:19 112:21 119:7 157:19 161:12 173:14 175:11,19 182:12 183:4 185:24 terrific 155:9 territories 47:8 terrorist 10:8 test 100:2 testifying 204:6 testing 27:5 text 72:8,20 92:7 168:14,20 169:20 textural 109:8 texture 161:3,7 165:22 194:25 textured 24:11 textures 96:2 thank 9:12 12:7 12:19,21 14:8 15:14,20 16:9 16:25 17:5,11 17:24 18:12 21:14 22:4,7 25:3 26:21 28:8 28:17 30:20,22 31:15,16 32:7 33:2,3,5 34:3,5 35:3,5,16,18,20 36:11,13,21,25 37:1 38:6,7,9 39:5,6,8,13 40:16,17 42:20 44:7,7,14,15 46:5,18,19,21 47:1 50:17 54:17,20,22,23 55:8 59:3,9 61:1 61:22 63:3,10 63:16 64:1,16 64:20,21 65:21 66:14 67:10,11 69:6,7,18,24 70:10 71:18 72:24 73:3 74:4 74:5,9,25 75:2,4 75:6,14 76:4,5,7 76:8 78:18,20 78:22 79:4 80:14,15 81:13 81:14,18 85:3 85:12 88:14 90:14,15,24,24 90:25 91:20 92:1,2,5,24 93:8 95:23 98:22 101:6 104:6,25 107:15,16 109:9 109:10 110:20 110:21,24 112:1 112:2,3 113:7,9 114:6,7,21 116:6,7,9,10 118:3,5,6,8 121:20,21 122:14,16 127:2 129:1 131:16 133:5,18,21 135:4 138:4 140:18,24 143:6 143:8 145:4,4 150:9 151:7,8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 152:15 154:3,23 155:15,16 156:13 158:9 160:1,24 162:24 163:1,1 164:2,3 164:5 166:3,4 167:18,19,21,23 170:5,6,8,11 171:3 174:11,13 174:15 176:4,5 177:22,23 181:9 184:7 186:1,3 188:25 191:22 195:23 196:5 197:16 198:14 199:6 203:2 thankful 16:13 201:25 thanking 15:16 78:24 thanks 42:19 75:15,15 173:24 201:23 theme 9:1 30:1 48:2 56:13 93:10 166:20 169:19 themes 14:14 47:12 120:11 thing 32:8 44:5 68:22 71:6 95:21 98:10,15 113:1 114:11 156:20,24 160:10 163:17 173:14,17 178:21 200:17 things 32:13,15 37:10,16 56:8 59:19 68:20 Meeting [things - time] 73:12 75:8 82:9 82:16 89:3 96:9 102:12 108:7 115:3,3 122:15 122:16 132:10 132:15 154:3 159:6 169:5,6 171:4,21 175:19 176:16 177:13 180:8 199:15 think 21:13,22 25:11 28:15,21 28:24 29:4,19 30:8 31:6,25 32:9,19,22,23 33:25 34:16,16 34:21 35:11 36:2,4 37:6,10 37:16,22,23 38:14,20 39:16 39:21 40:6,9 42:3,14,17 43:20 53:21 60:9,20,21,22 61:6 63:1,11,24 66:3,25 68:23 70:17 72:10 73:25 75:18 76:1,1,20 77:16 77:24 78:4,8,14 78:17,17 79:10 80:2,11,13 81:1 81:3,7,12 82:7 83:7,14,24,24 84:3,15,16 85:24 86:20 88:17,18 89:7 90:12 92:21 98:19 101:21,22 105:1,7,16,19 September 27, 2022 Page 52 105:22 106:1,4 107:17,20 108:15 109:14 109:16,19,23 110:5 111:1,11 111:18 112:6,10 112:14 113:3 115:10,22 116:12,21 117:3 117:13 118:16 119:11,15,23,24 120:5,9,10,11 120:14,23 121:5 121:10,11 122:6 122:6,7,9,10,17 125:2,3,4,6 126:25 128:21 129:9,10,15 132:5,11,21 139:8,13,16 141:4,6,13,21 141:23 142:15 143:1 151:22 153:9,18,20 154:15 157:2,23 158:2,5,17 159:9,13,20,21 160:19 161:3,23 162:16,18,18 163:7,8 164:11 164:12,17 165:19 166:12 167:8,14,18 168:11,20 169:2 169:2,15,22 171:6,17,18 172:20 173:4,8 173:9 174:1,2 175:8,12,22,24 176:20 177:18 178:6,10,19,25 179:16,22,24 180:3,11,15 181:10,17,19 182:19 185:16 186:7 188:9 192:13 194:8,10 194:23 197:20 198:1,1,6,7,23 thinking 80:22 118:11,13 120:18,20,22,22 161:12 164:23 176:12 189:2 201:2 thinks 173:9 third 10:13 19:3 19:17 thirty 46:1 thompson 8:18 21:7 thought 11:23 26:19 32:2 66:19 76:12 96:19 97:22 108:6,7,25 109:6 111:13 156:15 157:1 169:11 177:17 177:21 179:17 184:17 195:11 thoughtful 13:22 15:6,8 30:23 thoughts 76:19 116:12 threatening 19:16 three 14:21,22 14:25 17:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 19:10,20 20:18 22:14 24:6 30:13 32:7 33:1 33:22 35:15 36:3 37:5 38:19 40:3,12 45:14 45:18,25 46:1 100:16 110:4 140:5,16 144:18 145:2,3 147:9 148:8,8,10,10 160:10 165:23 165:25 166:21 166:23 167:14 168:23 172:19 172:19,22 177:15 178:16 178:19 184:21 185:3 188:14,14 188:14,19,23,23 192:12 threshold 9:21 thrilled 16:1 33:9 throat 120:5 throw 122:5 125:2 137:25 178:9 ties 30:8 95:9 tightened 148:15 tilt 23:3 time 1:7 3:22 4:2 4:4 9:15 11:12 15:9 19:25 20:3 23:9 27:15,16 33:19 35:11 36:21 38:3 41:10,18 44:10 48:15 52:5 63:6 Meeting [time - tuskegee] 65:9,12 83:6,18 83:24 85:7 103:14 118:11 124:1,8,14,14 128:4 130:10,11 150:25 153:4 155:12 167:16 169:25 187:9,15 203:3 times 53:24 155:8 timothy 1:13 204:3,22 tip 201:6 tired 177:3 title 61:5 titles 19:21 today 6:16 8:11 9:12 12:18,22 12:25 15:3 16:7 20:12 46:18 50:5,8 54:23 67:19 93:1 94:22 141:1 153:13 201:24 202:4,5 today's 3:11 5:15 12:4 told 26:15 80:7 182:14 tongue 33:14 60:16 tool 159:21,24 186:13,14 tools 137:3 142:22 146:13 149:11 169:5 172:8 176:14,17 top 43:19 60:4 99:24 102:2,8 September 27, 2022 Page 53 102:19,23 113:24 188:12 188:20 topic 11:7 122:7 topics 68:11 torso 56:7 58:7,9 58:17 59:20 total 129:18 totally 89:20 115:12 tour 18:23 19:2 19:8,15,18,20 20:12,14 22:16 23:7,17 32:3 42:8 track 27:16,19 65:9 tradition 165:9 165:11 traditional 195:13 trained 53:17,20 transcribed 3:6 134:4 transcriber 205:1 transcript 205:4 205:6 transcriptionist 204:9 transformation 170:20 translate 53:21 travel 99:14 traveled 54:6 147:14 treasurer 12:24 50:4 treasury 1:9 10:13 11:16 14:14 16:12 47:5,13 treat 105:3 treatment 49:7 52:2 109:3 tremendous 21:19 tribute 76:11 tried 101:21 171:9 triomphe 22:16 22:19,23 23:2 23:17 29:1 31:5 40:3 42:9 triumphant 40:12 trouble 88:16,17 170:25 trowel 120:14 true 16:24 31:8 80:23 88:20 119:24 120:9 204:10 205:6 truly 28:18 69:2 73:13 trust 2:23 9:11 137:17 152:25 try 27:13 32:14 64:25 84:1 104:11 113:6 123:17 132:4 155:25 171:4 trying 87:23 107:2,4 108:11 112:22 127:19 129:17 166:16 167:17 173:11 180:3 198:21 tube 100:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 tucker 2:5 4:22 4:23 39:7,8,9,13 75:3,4,5,15 91:22,22 92:4,5 92:6 116:8,9,10 134:17,18 167:20,21,22 169:13 184:13 184:14 186:9,9 190:8,9,13,16 190:19 197:15 197:16,17 198:1 199:25 tuesday 1:6 3:4 turn 23:3 30:23 33:3 34:5 35:18 39:6 41:15 66:14 67:11 70:10 74:8 75:2 76:5 78:20 80:15 85:14 90:2 92:4 93:2 103:16 104:23 109:9 110:21 112:2 113:7 116:7 118:6 121:21 134:24 158:9 160:1 162:25 164:3 165:15 166:5 170:6 174:13 176:5 198:15 turned 112:24 turning 12:7,12 18:7 93:4 106:15 107:24 117:16 167:19 tuskegee 93:14 93:21,23 Meeting [tweak - van] tweak 186:19 twenty 45:17,19 45:22 46:1 188:12,15,20,22 189:5 twister 60:16 two 9:24 11:6 14:20 19:19 20:18 24:1 29:7 37:20 45:24 47:15,18 56:8 59:10,18 74:1 78:2 81:6 87:13 99:23 112:16,18 119:19 123:24 129:4 132:10 142:18 143:23 144:11 145:25 148:17 149:5 150:22 151:2 167:13 168:17 173:14 179:20 188:13,16,19,22 188:23 189:19 189:21 190:21 191:19 192:12 192:20 twos 189:20,21 tying 95:15,16 type 27:8 62:15 98:25 types 100:7 typewriting 204:8 typical 98:3 183:10 186:1 typically 14:24 27:17 81:23 86:1,18 87:6 183:16 196:9 September 27, 2022 Page 54 typography 40:5 understating 82:6,18 u understood u.s. 10:14,16 112:7 16:12 18:22 undramatic 22:10 41:4 29:17 50:25 135:19 undying 53:24 137:1 unexpected 50:3 uh 97:6 unfortunate ultimately 11:9 10:2 111:5 161:2 unfortunately um 34:7 101:1 111:15 unanimous 139:1 143:9 133:13 unidentified unanimously 8:22 92:16 133:11 unified 146:24 undermine unintelligible 51:17 34:2 57:3 60:17 undermining 66:2 101:20,22 107:22 132:3 172:18 underneath 183:18 187:8 106:24 190:21 197:3 underscore 201:6 41:13 unintended understand 3:14 174:21 31:19 32:21 union 47:8 38:18 42:1 54:8 unique 12:9 54:8 69:15 47:24 112:6 107:2 115:2 unison 172:5 117:4,14 152:22 united 10:9,16 153:24 185:6,13 12:25 14:18 187:10 15:10 27:2,7 understanding 47:10 48:17 16:5 50:8 61:11 55:11 94:20 183:2 191:16 100:8 119:19 193:3 194:21 135:7,13 171:22 understated units 49:7 89:1 unity 172:5 understates university 48:8 83:14 51:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 unknown 8:2,15 62:22 69:19 86:9 181:20 192:18 193:22 unnatural 101:15 unquote 78:11 117:17 135:12 unser 2:15 6:9 unusual 40:10 update 97:6 updated 58:5 uphill 23:24 128:12 upraised 149:22 ups 103:1 upward 119:5 usa 149:17 usda 94:17 use 16:5 30:6 36:22 51:24 53:18 62:19 75:23 81:8 99:11 107:6 111:14 156:16 165:4 186:12 187:5 uses 94:9,11 ushered 48:20 uso 156:23 usually 72:10 v v 149:9 163:18 177:7 vacated 137:7 van 2:6 4:25 5:1 33:5,6 78:22,23 109:10,11 134:10 150:15 150:16,18 Meeting September 27, 2022 [van - washington] 159:15 174:15 174:16 191:13 191:13,22,24,25 192:5,19 193:2 193:3,8,19 variety 143:22 147:15 148:3 149:11 166:9,9 various 166:24 vasquez 2:10 7:6 7:7 72:1 vegetables 152:7 vehicles 135:9 velominati 33:12 ventricular 55:18 ventris 2:8 6:18 verb 168:4,11 verbally 134:5 verbiage 168:9 169:15 185:11 verify 31:7 version 24:16 102:19 138:8 144:6 versus 82:24 84:24 169:2 vertical 193:12 veteran 10:14 21:18 vetted 162:5 viable 102:18 victories 20:14 20:17 22:17 23:18 victorious 19:8 victory 19:7 43:18 137:1 149:7,9,18 Page 55 163:18 167:7 177:7 view 40:5 viewed 83:2 95:13 vigorous 130:8 vines 100:1 virtually 18:2 44:22 64:17 90:22 187:20 202:23 visibility 72:5 77:25 visible 62:7 vision 20:25 53:21 97:4 139:3 visualize 140:12 vividly 90:12 voice 36:23 54:3 65:8 124:17 voices 63:14 124:15 127:20 volunteered 135:17 voracious 117:7 vote 41:12 122:12 180:19 188:13,20 190:7 191:12 197:4 votes 35:15 46:8 69:5 85:3 92:20 112:5 159:16 165:15 186:16 186:17,17 189:4 189:5 voting 35:2 37:2 186:13 187:1,2 199:23 w w 99:18 100:15 104:2 118:21 127:12 wagon 99:12,19 109:25 waist 86:2,19 wait 25:10 70:1 103:16 197:25 walkie 86:9 want 4:3 9:11 26:16 28:17,23 30:5 33:11,22 34:12 39:9 40:18,21 41:15 43:2 46:17,19 52:10 55:2 59:8 61:21 64:3 67:2 68:21 70:19 76:10 77:12 78:23 86:12 89:19 90:1,6,23 90:24 96:8 103:5 106:19 111:12 113:1 115:11 118:9 125:17,18 126:19,20,24 129:19,20 130:4 130:22 132:10 132:22,22 140:24,24 153:22 157:9,15 170:23 172:10 176:7 179:22 180:20 181:4 185:6,25 190:3 195:8 197:24 199:1,4,14 201:23 202:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 wanted 22:2 28:10 64:5,19 69:11 70:15 71:14 73:10 75:6 81:6 90:5 95:7 96:23 111:8,16 131:8 155:1 159:16 165:7 174:10 179:20 183:19 186:7 wants 29:11 44:4 113:16 war 12:1 39:16 49:13 51:3 53:2 53:3,5 112:16 135:9,11,17,18 135:20 136:4,25 137:4,8,10 141:9 143:21,23 144:3,13,19 145:7,18,22,25 146:6,12,23 148:7,17,24 149:13,18,25 150:7,21 153:13 157:25 158:21 161:13 165:5,22 167:1,13 170:17 170:18,19 171:15,20 177:7 warmth 28:14 warren 2:13 6:5 6:8,8 7:15,18 10:20 17:2,9 36:15,16 45:4 192:13 wartime 136:22 washington 1:12 93:11,12,20 Meeting [washington - 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