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Meeting

September 27, 2022

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CITIZENS COINAGE ADVISORY COMMITTEE

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MEETING/CONFERENCE

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______________________________________________

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DATE:

Tuesday, September 27, 2022

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TIME:

9:00 a.m. - 2:58 p.m.

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LOCATION:

Meeting/Conference

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Department of the Treasury

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801 9th Street NW

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2nd Floor Conference Room

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Washington, DC 20220

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REPORTED BY:

Timothy Guevara, Notary Public

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JOB NO:

5350860

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A T T E N D E E S
Dr. Lawrence Brown, Chairperson of the CCAC
Sam Gill, Representing the general public
Dean Kotlowski, Qualified in American History
Robin Salmon, Qualified in Mettalic Arts/Sculpture
Mike Moran, Recommended by the Senate Minority
Leader
Donald Scarinci
Dennis Tucker, Qualified in numismatics
Peter Van Alfen, Qualified as a numismatic curator
Arthur Bernstein, Representing the general public
Harcourt Fuller, Recommended by the Speaker of the
House
Mary Lannin, Recommended by House Minority Leader
Ventris Gibson, Director of Mint
April Stafford, Chief Office of Design Management
Megan Sullivan, Senior Design Specialist
Boneza Hanchock, Design Manager
Roger Vasquez, Design Manager
Joe Menna, Mint Chief Engraver
Mike Costello, manager, design and engraving
Greg Weinman, senior legal counsel/counsel to the
CCAC
Robert Hoge, former CCAC member
Jennifer Warren, Mint Liaison to the CCAC
PRESENT VIA REMOTELY:
Mike Unser, Coin News Media Group
Paul Gilkes, Founder and editor
Amos Media, Coin World Senior Editor
Brandon Hall, Whitman Publishing Senior Editor
Pam Borer, Design Manager

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ALSO PRESENT REMOTELY:
Mr. Crozier Connor, Senior Legislative
Deputy Gregory Olsen
Anne Lown, Daughter of Dr. Bernhardt Lown
Mr. Philip Arnzen, Deputy Legislative Director of
the Office of the Governor, Michael L. Pierson
Mae Krier, Former "Rosie the Riveter",
Lori Gold, Daughter of Phyllis Gould
Sarah Pritchard, executive director of "Rosie the
Riveter" Trust
Elizabeth Young, attorney advisor
Mike White, Office of Corporate Communication

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(Thereupon, the following meeting is had.)
DR. BROWN:

Good morning.

I call to order

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this meeting of the Citizens Coinage Advisory

4

Committee, for Tuesday, September 27, 2022.

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Please note that this meeting is recorded and

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transcribed.

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For the sake of our public listeners, we

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may prefer -- we may refer to ourselves during

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the meeting as the CCAC.

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The notice published and the Federal

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Register included as an agenda item for today's

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meeting, the review and discussion of candidate

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designs for the Harlem Hell Fighters

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Congressional Gold Medal.

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this portfolio is not yet ready for review, and

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will instead be presented at a future meeting.

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I would like to remind each and every member of

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the CCAC members, liaisons, and Mint employees

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participating remotely to mute his or her

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phone, or microphone on the Microsoft Teams

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program when not talking, and to announce your

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name at the beginning of each time you speak.

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By the way, I didn't do that, Lawrence Brown.

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We understand that

Additionally, I remind the public that
this is a listening only hearing for the
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public.

Before we begin, and as this may be

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the first time for those participating during a

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meeting of the CCAC, I want to introduce the

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members of the CCAC at this time, indicating

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the diversity of the members.

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my colleagues, present when I call your name.

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Representing the general public, Sam Gill?

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MR. GILL:

9

DR. BROWN:

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Present.
Specially qualified in

American History, Dean Kotlowski?

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MR. KOTLOWSKI:

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DR. BROWN:

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Present.

Specially qualified in

Medallic Arts or Sculpture, Robin Salmon?

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MS. SALMON:

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DR. BROWN:

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Please respond,

Present.
Recommended by the Senate

Majority Leader, Mike Moran.

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MR. MORAN:

Present.

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DR. BROWN:

Recommended by the Senate

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Minority Leader, Donald Scarinci?

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MR. SCARINICI:

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DR. BROWN:

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Specially qualified in

Numismatics, Dennis Tucker?

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MR. TUCKER:

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DR. BROWN:

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Present.

Present.
Specially qualified as a

Numismatic Curator, Peter Van Alfen?
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MR. VAN ALFEN:

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DR. BROWN:

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Representing the general

public, Arthur Bernstein.

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MR. BERNSTEIN:

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DR. BROWN:

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the House, Dr.

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DR. FULLER:

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DR. BROWN:

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Present.

Present.

Recommended by the Speaker of
Harcourt Fuller?
Present.
Recommended by the House

Minority Leader Mary Lannin?

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MS. LANNIN:

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DR. BROWN:

Present.
I am again Dr. Lawrence Brown,

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representing the general public, and

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Chairperson of the CCAC.

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quorum.

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I believe we have a

The agenda for today's meeting, public

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meeting, includes the following: presentation

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of the CCAC Public Service Awards to Mr. Robert

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Hoge, acceptance of the letters to the

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secretary and approval of the minutes of our

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June 14, 2022 meeting, review and discussion of

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candidate designs for the Congressional Gold

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Medal to Greg LeMond, review and discussion of

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reverse candidate designs for the 2024 American

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Innovation $1 coins honoring innovations in

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Maine and Missouri, and finally, review and
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discussion of candidate designs for the

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Congressional Gold Medal to women known as

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"Rosie the Riveter".

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proceedings, I asked the Mint liaison to the

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CCAC, Ms. Jennifer Warren, if we are aware of

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any members of the press who are remotely

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signing into this public meeting.

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MS. WARREN:

Before we began our

This is Jennifer Warren.

Mike Unser of Coin News Media Group, founder

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and editor; Paul Gilkes, Amos Media Coin World

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Senior Editor; Brandon Hall, Whitman

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Publishing, Senior Editor.

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DR. BROWN:

For the record, I would like

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to also to confirm the following Mint staff,

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and the former CCAC members attending the

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meeting today.

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present after I've called your name.

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Ventris Gibson?

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MS. GIBSON:

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DR. BROWN:

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Please indicate by saying

Present.
April Stafford, Chief Office

of Design Management?

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MS. STAFFORD:

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MS. BROWN:

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Director

Present.

Megan Sullivan, Senior Design

Specialist?
MS. SULLIVAN:

Present.

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DR. BROWN:

Boneza Hanchock, Design

Manager?

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MS. HANCHOCK:

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DR. BROWN:

Pam Borer, Design Manager.

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MS. BORER:

Present.

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DR. BROWN:

Roger Vasquez, Design Manager?

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MR. VASQUEZ:

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DR. BROWN:

Russell Evans, Design Manager?

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MR. EVANS:

Present.

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DR. BROWN:

Joe Menna, Mint Chief

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Present.

Present.

Engraver?

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MR. MENNA:

Present.

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DR. BROWN:

You know, I had to say

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something delayed for that because -- Jennifer

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Warren, Director of Legislative,

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Intergovernmental Affairs and liaison to the

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CCAC?

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MS. WARREN:

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DR. BROWN:

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Present.
Mike Costello, Manager, Design

and Engraving?

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MR. COSTELLO:

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DR. BROWN:

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Present.

Greg Weinman, Senior Legal

Counsel and counsel to the CCAC?

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MR. WEINMAN:

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DR. BROWN:

Present.
Elizabeth Young, attorney

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advisor?

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UNKNOWN SPEAKER:
later.

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She'll be coming on

DR. BROWN:

Mike White, Office of

Corporate Communication?

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MR. WHITE:

Here.

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DR. BROWN:

Sir Robert Hoge, former CCAC

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member?

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MR. HOGE:

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DR. BROWN:

Present.
And finally, the following

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liaisons will be on the call with us today.

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For the Greg LeMond Congressional Gold Medal,

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we have the pleasure, because we have with us

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Mr.

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Crozier Connor.
UNKNOWN SPEAKER:

Probably coming on

later.

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DR. BROWN:

Senior Legislative Assistant

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for Representative Mike Thompson; for the 2024

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American Innovation Dollar honoring innovation

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in Maine, we have with us Deputy -- I'm sorry

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--

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER:

Gregory

Olsen.
DR. BROWN:

Deputy Gregory Olsen, and Anne

Lown, the daughter of Dr. Bernard Lown, the
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subject of the innovation theme; for the 2024

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American Innovation Coin honoring innovation in

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Missouri, we have with us Mr. Philip Artin;

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Deputy Legislative Director of the Office of

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the Governor, Michael L. Pearson; and for the

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Congressional Gold Medal to the women known as

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a "Rosie the Riveter", we have with us Mae

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Krier, a former "Rosie the Riveter"; Lori Gold,

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the daughter of Phyllis Gold, a former "Rosie

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the Riveter"; Sarah Pritchard, Executive

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Director of "Rosie the Riveter" Trust.

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to thank all of you for joining with us today.

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I want

I'd like to start with a question to the

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Mint.

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be addressed at this time?

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seeing none.

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Are there any other issues that need to
Hearing none,

As is my pattern, I would like to consider

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this meeting in the context of matters of

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significance to our society and roles of the

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CCAC.

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the year?

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to autumn of the year, and for those of us in

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the Northeast, it means returning to school,

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and we know how we remember those number two

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pencils.

By the way, who does not like autumn of
September represents the threshold

Albeit we chart a little later than
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many parts of the country.

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September has heralded unfortunate historical

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events, such as the execution in 1776 of the

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Patriot Nathan Hale, and who can forget his

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last words, "as I only regret that I have but

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one life to lose for my country." And it still

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looms, September still looms in the minds of

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most, because of the worst terrorist attack in

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the history of the United States on September

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Looking back,

11, 2001.

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September has also provided us historical

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events, such as the establishment of Congress,

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of the US Treasury, as the third presidential

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cabinet of the U.S. Being a veteran, I would be

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remiss if I did not include the establishment

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of the United States Army, and the U.S. Armed

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Forces in the ninth month of the year.

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September is also the birth month of a number

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of famous Americans, such as Supreme Court

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Justices John Marshall and Warren Burger,

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Patriots Samuel Adams and Marquis de Lafayette,

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and other famous Americans in music such as

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George Gershwin, happens to be from Brooklyn,

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and in sports, Jesse Owens.

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forgive me as I take this point of personal

Now, please

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privilege, and mention for the record another

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person very close to me, who just celebrated

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her birthday, my wife, Dr. Faith Brown.

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Since we are going to be discussing

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designs pertaining to innovations, I would be

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remiss if I did not mention two matters related

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to this topic.

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the British scientist Michael Faraday, whose

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invention ultimately led to the development of

September is the birth month of

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electric generators.

Even more significant,

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chewing gum was first produced commercially for

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the first time in September of 1848.

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certain dentists probably say, you know, that's

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significance to them.

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September is also a month of historical

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significance.

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Fowler laid the cornerstone of the fourth

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Philadelphia Mint Building.

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release by the US Mint announced production of

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the American Gold Eagles in 1986, Platinum

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Eagles in 1996, and coins honoring the Botanic

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Garden in 94, Basketball Hall of Fame (by the

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way, I love basketball; I thought I was going

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to perhaps do that professionally) and 2019,

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the 75th anniversary of the end of the World

I'm sure

Closer to numismatics,

In 1968, Treasury Secretary

September press

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War II in 2020, and even closer to the hearts

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of many of us on the CCAC, the appointment of

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none other than Dr. Harcourt Fuller to the CCAC

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last September.

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September 2022, will join its predecessors as a

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phenomenal chapter in the history of the CCAC.

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Based on today's agenda,

Now turning -- and thank you for your

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patience with this chair of the CCAC.

I know

9

that you'll probably say he's unique.

You may

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have other words to say as well, but we have

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those as a sidebar.

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Turning to the first order of business for

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this committee is the presentation of the

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Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Public

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Service Award to Mr. Robert Hoge.

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recognition of his loyal service, Director

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Gibson will finally -- will be making the

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presentation to him today.

In

Director?

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MS. GIBSON:

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you so much, Dr.

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thank each and every one of you for joining us

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today.

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And good morning and thank
Brown, for that intro and

I had the honor from the Philadelphia the

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first Mint, we're welcoming the treasurer of

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the United States today to the Mint, and thus,
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I am not there with you.
Mr. Robert Hoge was first appointed to the

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CCAC in 2012 and then reappointed in 2016 as

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the member specifically qualified in numismatic

5

curation.

6

as curator of North American Coins and currency

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at the American Numismatic Society in New York

8

City, where he later served as Curator

9

Emeritus.

From 2001 to 2013, Mr.

Hoge served

Prior to that, from 1981 to 2001, he

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served as Curator of the ANA, or, as we know,

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the American Numismatic Association.

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directed the ANA's money museum in Colorado

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Springs, and also served as manager of its

14

authentication bureau, and was a regular

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columnist and contributing director for the

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ANA's official publication, The Numismatists.

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Mr. Hoge

For 20 years, that is 20 years, he taught

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at the ANA's summer seminar and prepared

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numerous seminars from museological

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organizations.

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knowledge to the CCAC during his eight years on

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the committee, providing his thoughtful and

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insightful knowledge to the numerous portfolios

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that came in front of our committee.

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designs Mr. Hoge reviewed were the Native

Mr. Hoge brought his extensive

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Among the

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American $1 coin, the American the Beautiful

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Quarter program, bullion designs for Liberty

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and several Congressional Gold medals,

4

including the series of Code Talkers medals.

5

Mr. Hoge's final meeting as a CCAC member was

6

in June 23rd of 2020.

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only now are we able to formally, and properly

8

thank him for his service on the CCAC, and to

9

present him with the Citizens Coinage Advisory

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But due to the pandemic

Committee Public Service Award.

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The CCAC Public Service Award recognizes

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the contributions of a member of the CCAC, who

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has honorably served the public interests by

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advising the Secretary of Treasury on themes

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and design proposals relating to circulating

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coinage, bullion coinage, Congressional Gold

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Medals and national and other medals produced

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by the United States Mint.

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let me repeat this, the Public Service Award --

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contains a framed certificate and two bronze

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medals; a three-inch Alexander Hamilton

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Secretary's medal, and a three-inch bronze

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duplicate of a medal reviewed by the CCAC,

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typically, during the tenure of the recipient.

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Mr.

The award -- and

Hoge requested the three-inch David Ryder
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bronze medal, as a pleasant reminder of his

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term in CCAC, and of the Mint personnel whom he

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got to know during his tenure.

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pleased to present the CCAC Public Service

5

Award to Mr.

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consistently provided, inspired and thoughtful

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input, and you know what, what an

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accomplishment, thoughtful input, because that

9

is so important in this day and time to the

Robert Hoge.

Today, I am

Mr. Hoge, you have

10

development of numerous United States coins,

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and medals, and is highly regarded by your

12

colleagues, and you're respected for your

13

opinion and your insight.

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thank you.

15

For this, we say

Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in

16

thanking and congratulating Robert Hoge for his

17

service to the Citizens Coinage Advisory

18

Committee.

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say a few words, sir.

20

Robert, the microphone is yours to

MR. HOGE:

Thank you so much, Director

21

Gibson.

It has been an extraordinary pleasure

22

and honor for me to participate with the many

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wonderful people I have had the opportunity to

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get to know as a part of my service.

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been an extraordinary experience, and I'm fully
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It has

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thrilled (to have) the privilege to have be a

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part of this procedure, which is an important

3

part of our nation's history and participation

4

of the entire population of our country, and

5

the use and understanding of our coins and

6

medals honoring our past history.

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an important event for me to be here today, and

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I feel very humbled and very honored to be

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recognized in this lovely fashion.

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11

so much.

It's really

Thank you

Ah, there it is.

DR. BROWN:

Robert, on behalf of the CACC,

12

the U.S.

Mint, the Department of Treasury, we

13

are thankful for the opportunity to present

14

this to you, to let you know that while some of

15

us are here for whose term overlapped with

16

yours, there are few of us who, in fact, did

17

not have that pleasure.

18

have the esteemed honor of continuing to hear

19

from you, prior to the CCAC of you joining and

20

subsequent to that.

21

look forward to hearing more from you because

22

even though you have left the CCAC, the CCAC

23

has not left your heart.

24

MR. HOGE:

25

DR. BROWN:

But nonetheless, we

So, we are pleased, and we

That's true.
So, thank you so much.

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Another round of applause for Mr. Hoge.

2

MS. WARREN:

Okay, we're going to just

3

take like a three-minute break, because we have

4

to move the computers and stuff.

5

with us, everybody.

So just bear

Thank you, Director.

6

(Thereupon, a break was taken,

7

and the proceeding continued as

8

follows:)

9
10

MS. WARREN:

Okay, we're going to go ahead

and start.

11

DR. BROWN:

Thank you for your patience.

12

The next item on the agenda is the review and

13

approval of the minutes and the letters to the

14

Secretary from the public meeting on June 14,

15

2022.

16

members of the CCAC?

17

motion to approve the minutes and letters?

Are there any comments from any of the

18

MR. BERNSTEIN:

19

DR. BROWN:

20

MS. LANNIN:

21

DR. BROWN:

22

Art Bernstein so moves.

Is there a second?
Mary Lannin, second.
Hearing that, all those in

favor signify saying aye.

23

(Aye)

24
25

Hearing none, is there a

DR. BROWN:
you.

Those not in favor?

My apologies.

Thank

I'll make sure to pause a

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second, for our colleagues that are

2

participating virtually.

3

objections to the motion?

4

objection, the minutes and letters are

5

approved.

6

Are there any
If not, without

Now, we, in fact, are returning to the

7

main course of the meeting and turning over to

8

now April Stafford, Chief of the Mint Office of

9

Design Management, who will present the obverse

10

and reverse candidate designs for the

11

Congressional Gold Medal to Greg LeMond.

12

MS. STAFFORD:

Thank you.

It is Public

13

Law 116-208, the Greg LeMond Congressional Gold

14

Medal Act that awards the Congressional Gold

15

Medal to Greg LeMond in recognition of his

16

service to the nation as an athlete, activist,

17

role model and community leader.

18

LeMond began cycling at the age of 14.

19

home a full suite of medals at the 1979 Junior

20

World Championships, and at age 18 became the

21

youngest cyclist in the history of the sport to

22

be selected for the U.S. Olympic team.

23

Tour de France, the world's preeminent cycling

24

competition takes place over 23 days, covering

25

an extraordinary 2200 miles, winding through
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Gregory, Greg
He took

The

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multiple mountain ranges, and spanning multiple

2

nations.

3

France in 1984, finishing third and the

4

following year second.

5

deputized himself to his teammates, sacrificing

6

a chance to win for himself, to boost his

7

teammates towards victory.

8

victorious in the 1986 Tour de France after

9

ascending the fabled Alpha Dreads, ahead of the

10

field by more than three full minutes, becoming

11

the first American and the first non-European

12

to win cycling's most prestigious race.

13

LeMond mounted the greatest comeback in the

14

history of American sports, winning the 1989

15

Tour de France following multiple surgeries,

16

life threatening wounds, tendon repair, and an

17

appendectomy.

18

Tour de France in 1990.

19

professional career, having won two world

20

championships, three Tour de France

21

championships, and 22 titles overall.

22

than any other cyclist, LeMond personifies the

23

breakaway culture of American cycling in the

24

1970s and eighties, attempting to accomplish

25

feats no other American had up until that time.

LeMond first competed in the Tour de

In both years, he

LeMond emerged

Later,

LeMond went on to win a third
LeMond completed his

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LeMond has not only reached the pinnacle of

2

international sport, but also has devoted his

3

time and resources to assisting his fellow

4

athletes.

5

commitment to excellence, generosity,

6

community, and tenacity that makes him an

7

example for all to follow; a commitment and

8

tenacity exemplified by his personal guiding

9

principle, "Don't ever give up.

LeMond has demonstrated the

10

easier.

11

inscriptions across the obverse designs you'll

12

be reviewing today include Greg LeMond, Tour de

13

France, 1986, 1989 and 1990, which were the

14

year of his Tour de France victories.

15

the reverse, you'll see act of Congress 2022

16

and 1979, 1983 and 1989, the years of his world

17

championship victories.

And I believe earlier

18

I said that he had two.

So, it is three and

19

those years are 79, 83 and 89.

20

reverse are the inscriptions, World Champion

21

and his again personal motto, "Don't ever give

22

up.

23

faster."

24
25

You just get faster."

It doesn't get

It doesn't get easier.

Common

And on

Also on the

You just get

So, for this Congressional Gold Medal,
Greg LeMond had a specific vision, and it is
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reflected in his identified preferences of

2

obverse eleven and reverse five.

3

show them to you here.

4

and reverse five.

5

And we will

That's obverse eleven

Now, our liaison to Mr. LeMond, Crozer

6

Conner, who is the senior legislative assistant

7

to representative Mike Thompson, is with us to

8

answer any questions that the committee might

9

have.

Mr. Connor, I believe you're with us.

10

Do you have anything you'd like to share with

11

the committee before we review the candidate

12

designs?

13

MR. CONNOR:

I don't think so.

I would

14

just say thank you all for your good work.

15

April, and Boneza and Jennifer have all been

16

great.

17

important to my boss, not only as a cyclist,

18

but also as a veteran and a champion for mental

19

health.

20

charitable work in the years since his career

21

came to an end.

22

You know, this is a cause that was very

Greg has done a lot of tremendous

I also think it was important to note, and

23

this is not, you know, inherent in the medal,

24

but, you know, Greg was kind of one of the

25

first athletes to stand up against cheating in
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this sport, and he was really kind of

2

railroaded for that, and like, you know, wanted

3

to find a way to correct the record.

4

happy to answer any questions.

5

all very much for your work on this, and I look

6

forward to getting this done.

7

MS. STAFFORD:

So, I'm

But thank you

Thank you so much.

8

should also note that obverse eleven and

9

reverse five.

So, I

In addition to being Mr.

10

LeMond's preferences, they are also the U.S.

11

Commission of Fine Arts recommendations.

12

we will go through the portfolio candidate

13

design, starting with obverse designs.

14

start with obverse three.

15

waving the American flag while riding past the

16

Arc de Triomphe, with the years of his Tour de

17

France victories emblazoned on the pavement

18

before him.

19

Arc de Triomphe in the background, a

20

representation of the American flag is set in

21

the background, and angled to emphasize

22

LeMond's amazing speed.

23

portrait of the LeMond with the Arc de Triomphe

24

in the background, along with an image of him

25

in action on his bicycle.

So,

We'll

This depicts LeMond

Obverse four shows LeMond with the

Obverse five is a

Obverse six depicts

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the American flag projecting outward from the

2

Arc de Triomphe, as LeMond banks to make a

3

turn.

4

reinforcing the motion of the design.

5

nine depicts LeMond in action, wearing race

6

number one, awarded to the winner of the

7

previous year's Tour de France.

8

the years LeMond won with that year's winning

9

time in brackets and incused diamonds,

The inscriptions are on a tilt,
Obverse

Also shown are

10

representing the number of stages he won in

11

that year's race.

12

map of France in the background.

13

obverse 11, which again is Greg LeMond's

14

preferred obverse design, and the

15

recommendation of the CFA.

16

Greg LeMond in action, riding past the Arc de

17

Triomphe with the years of his Tour de France

18

victories inscribed.

19

The design also features a
And finally,

This design depicts

Moving on to the reverse designs.

Again,

20

that is the preference of Mr. LeMond and the

21

CFA's recommendation.

22

are as follows:

23

with the inscription, "Don't ever give up."

24

LeMond races the uphill sweep of the

25

inscription, bridging the gap between North

The candidate designs

Reverse one depicts a globe

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America and Europe.

Reverse two is a

2

representation of the world superimposed over a

3

bicycle sprocket, and LeMonds quote, "Don't

4

ever give up.

5

get faster." featured in the center.

6

three is a depiction of LeMond superimposed

7

over the globe, writing above his quote with

8

his signature beneath.

9

the most preferred reverse, and the

It doesn't get easier.

You just
Reverse

Reverse five again read

10

recommendation of the CFA.

This design is a

11

textured globe to offset is from the field,

12

while gently alluding to road asphalt, the

13

service, the surface LeMond competed on.

14

Bicycle chains and the inscription World

15

Champion are inscribed on the outer border.

16

Also, this design includes a shortened version

17

of LeMonds quote, "It doesn't get easier.

18

just get faster."

19

depicts a bicycle free wheel with a chain, the

20

inscriptions along the border and the incused

21

inscription "World Champion" center.

22

finally, reverse eight features, chain, rings,

23

and a crank with a globe on the center.

24

inscription, "World Champion" is along the

25

crank arm.

You

Moving on, reverse six

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2

Chairman, that concludes the candidate
designs.

3

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

Are there

4

any technical or legal questions from the

5

committee about this program, or these designs

6

for the great Greg LeMond Congressional Gold

7

Medal before we began our general discussion?

8
9
10

MR. SCARINCI:

ask the stakeholder a question at this point or
wait?

11

DR. BROWN:

12

MR. SCARINCI:

13
14
15
16

Would it be appropriate to

I think that makes sense.
Can I -- I just have one

question for the stakeholders.
DR. BROWN:

Donald, my apologies.

I

should have, in fact, that's Donald Scarinci.
MR. SCARINCI:

Oh, I'm sorry.

Donald

17

Scarinci.

18

design preference, was it like resounding or

19

were you close to considering one of the other

20

designs, particularly in the reverse?

21

Was this, you know, your choice of

MS. STAFFORD:

So, I believe that question

22

is aimed at you, Mr. Connor.

Crozer Conner is,

23

again, our liaison to Mr.

24

with us throughout the development.

25

Connor, did you hear the question, or should we

LeMond, and has been

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repeat it real quick?

2

MR. CONNOR:

3

quick?

4

Could you repeat it real

I only got pieces of it.

MR. SCARINCI:

Sure.

I just -- I was just

5

wondering, I was just curious if the decision

6

for the preference, for your preference was a

7

resounding decision, or if you had, if it was

8

between, if it was close between one of the

9

other designs, particularly on the reverse.

10

MR. CONNOR:

Sure, I would say that Greg

11

is a man of few words.

12

concise in his preference.

13

was very clear about the obverse, and, you

14

know, he really just selected the reverse and

15

told me that, you know, why he liked it.

16

don't want to put words in his mouth.

17

that he didn't like any of the other proposals.

18

I just, I know that that's the one that he

19

thought was best, and he was pretty clear about

20

that.

21

MR. SCARINCI:

22

DR. BROWN:

And so, he was pretty
I mean, he was, he

I

It's not

Thank you.

Any other questions from the

23

CCAC?

And let me also, in fact, for the

24

record, share the fact that when Mr. Connor

25

mentioned about Mr. LeMond's, in fact, effort
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to reduce cheating in sports, I happened to

2

actually be one of the members of the United

3

States Anti-Doping Agency that came into

4

existence because of Mr. LeMond advocacy, that

5

actually, in fact, was responsible for testing

6

American athletes, whether they were competing

7

abroad or competing in the United States and

8

Olympic type of events.

9

salute him for his efforts there because I had

10

another role there that was more minor, but as

11

a result of his advocacy.

12

So, again, I certainly

Let us then begin our discussion.

I would

13

like to remind members to try to keep our

14

comments to five minutes or less, and to

15

identify, each and every time, ourselves.

16

We'll be keeping track of time, and that

17

typically means you know Jennifer is helping

18

me, so, you know Jennifer.

19

keeps us on track here.

20

members have any questions or comments on any

21

program, please refrain from asking at this

22

point, or discussing that until you are

23

recognized, or at the end of the discussion of

24

this program when I will ask if you have

25

additional comments.

She's the one that

Additionally, if any

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For the benefit of the court reporter and

2

those calling in, I ask that you speak loudly

3

and clearly due to the microphones, and to

4

again to state your name before you begin

5

speaking.

6

minutes.

7

Dean?

8
9

As a reminder, again, you have five
So, let's start with Dean Kotlowski,

MR. KOTLOWSKI:
Chairman.

Thank you very much, Mr.

I'm not sure Robert Hoge is still

10

there, but I just wanted to say if you are

11

Robert, your insight and your experience really

12

did set an example for a lot of us who joined

13

the committee in the years you were on it, and

14

your warmth, sensitivity, and sense of humor, I

15

think it made a lot of us, and me in

16

particular, feel very comfortable serving on

17

the CCAC, and I want to thank you for your

18

service, and say you truly are in our hearts,

19

and congratulate you on this really important

20

day.

21

I think there are a lot of really

22

excellent designs here, and with respect to the

23

obverse, I want to applaud Mr.

24

picking what I think is the best design.

25

very striking.

LeMond for

It's very dramatic.

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It's

I love the

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way it has the Arc de Triomphe, the American

2

flag, Mr. LeMond, the cyclist, and the way the

3

dates are composed going into the background.

4

So, I think that's very, very striking, and I

5

really love the design and I hope it will get

6

some attention in France.

7

of some important iconic symbols of the two

8

countries.

9

lot of very, very good designs.

It's a nice melding

With the reverse again, there is a
I don't know

10

where to begin.

I have an inclination just to

11

simply go with what Mr.

12

see why number five is very important to him,

13

because the quotation is key, I would imagine,

14

for him, and it is a nice representation of the

15

globe; bike chain is very nice.

16

though struck me as just a little faint and

17

maybe a little undramatic.

18

other designs that I would just point to that I

19

think are interesting, creative, original,

20

striking.

21

like the bike chain and how the world, the

22

globe was at the center here, and the way the

23

dates are written, and "World Champion" just

24

stands out for me.

25

words there, very bold, very dramatic.

LeMond wants.

I can

The design

And there are some

Number eight really struck me.

I

It's, you know, the incused

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six is a little bit on the same theme, maybe

2

just a bit less dramatic, but worth noting as

3

well.

4

over when I first looked at the portfolio, but

5

number, just want to point to this, this is --

6

I never use this word when I'm discussing

7

designs, but this is a kind of cute design, I

8

think.

9

together with the cyclists and, you know, you

And I was looking again, I passed it

The way it ties the Atlantic world

10

have the globe and you have the "Don't ever

11

give up.", and a bit of cuteness, and this is

12

where, Mr. Chairman, I'm going to close my

13

comments.

14

and it reminded me of E.T.

15

was the effect that they were going for, but

16

it's a good example, maybe just of how a design

17

can be intended one way and received another

18

way.

19

looking forward to listening to what my

20

colleagues have to say.

21

Mr. Chairman.

Number three is worth pointing out,

So, those are my comments, and I'm

22

DR. BROWN:

23

thoughtful comments.

24

Bernstein.

25

I'm not sure that

Thank you very much,

Thank you so much for your

MR. BERNSTEIN:

Let's turn now to Arthur

Good morning.

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Arthur Bernstein.

I'd like to speak in favor

2

of the obverse and reverse that was selected by

3

Mr. LeMond.

4

the architectural feature of the Arc de

5

Triomphe.

6

border I think is very attractive.

7

as a cyclist, I can verify that it does get

8

easier, but I'm not sure it's true that I get

9

any faster.

With obverse 11, I also appreciate

On reverse five, the bike chain
I will say

But I appreciate having the

10

quotation on the medal.

11

criticism of obverse nine.

12

father, I don't like to see a cyclist not

13

wearing a helmet.

14

favor of the selections that were chosen.

15

Thank you.

16
17
18

DR. BROWN:

I had one minor
I guess as a

Other than that, I'm in

Thank you.

Let's return to

Mary Lannin.
MS. LANNIN:

Okay.

I'm going to be the

19

outlier here.

I understand why Mr. LeMond

20

liked number 11.

21

is the position of the flag.

22

where else you can put it, but it looks like

23

it's attached to the bicycle.

24

that just bugged me.

25

rather than number eleven, because I think it

What bothers me on that one
I don't know

I don't know,

I preferred number six

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shows the same speed.

I like the swirling of

2

the stars and stripes, and I thought that the

3

years that he won the Tour de France were very

4

bold.

5

six over number 11 in terms of obverse.

6

then getting to reverse, again, I'm an outlier.

7

I did like number three, Jean.

8

The thing that I liked about it, is that it's

9

something with his signature, and I think that

So, my preference would be the number
And

So, thank you.

10

that, you know, if you're going to be a young

11

kid and a biker, I'm a former Sonoma County

12

resident, so we saw bikes all over because Greg

13

sponsored lots of things at Sonoma County.

14

would be a hero, and so you try to collect

15

things of your heroes, and so here you've got

16

an autograph, you've got him in profile

17

whizzing across the globe, and then down at the

18

bottom you've got the years, very clearly, that

19

he was the world champion, and I think that

20

that stands out.

21

number five, I understand he's a man of few

22

words, but these are too few for me.

23

it's -- I think it's too self-effacing.

24

an incredible champion, and this reverse is

25

just kind of fading away from me.

He

Now, as to his selection

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So, my

He's

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favorite for the reverse is number three, and

2

for the obverse is number six.

3
4

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

Thank you.

Let's turn to

Peter.

5

MR. VAN ALFEN:

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

6

This is Peter Van Alfen.

7

myself, and a huge fan of Greg LeMond,

8

particularly for his anti-doping efforts, I

9

have to say I'm really thrilled to participate

10

in the selections of the designs for this, and

11

I also want to point out that there is a

12

website called Velominati, the Keepers of the

13

COG, and on that website there are 95 rules,

14

most of which are somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

15

But rule number ten, is it doesn't get easier,

16

you just get faster.

17

I cycle with, rule number ten is something of a

18

mantra for us, so something we invoke all the

19

time.

20

itself.

21

LeMond's selections of obverse eleven and

22

reverse three.

23

reverse six I find particularly attractive,

24

both because I'm somewhat of a cycling gear

25

head, but I also just think that this is a very

As an avid cyclist

For myself and those that

I'm very happy to see this on the medal
So, I'm more than happy to support Mr.

I also want to point out that

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attractive design, with the free wheeler that

2

are (unintelligible) here.

3

happy to wrap up my comments.

4

much.

5
6
7

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

So, with that, I'm
Thank you very

We turn now to

Donald.
MR. SCARINCI:

Donald Scarinci.

Um, you

8

know, since there is not a close second choice,

9

I always, I always, as we all know, I always

10

support the gold medalist's selection when it

11

comes to congressional gold medals.

12

don't need to belabor it.

13

to give a lot of merit to the portfolio as a

14

whole, and I particularly, if it were my pick,

15

I particularly like obverse number six.

16

think the -- I think that's a, that's a medal

17

in motion.

I love the motion.

18

curvature.

You feel like you're riding and,

19

you know, so the artist who designed this

20

really did a particularly outstanding job.

21

in the reverse, I think it was reverse number

22

eight that caught my attention, as being

23

particularly creative as well as reverse number

24

six, and, you know, I, too, like those other

25

artists who designed those should be commended

So, I

I simply do not want

I

I love the

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in as well.

2

voting for the stakeholder's selection.

3
4

So, with that said.

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

I'll be

Next is Michael

Moran.

5

MR. MORAN:

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

6

Mike Moran.

7

stakeholder's selections here.

This is

I too will concur with the

8

DR. BROWN:

A little louder.

9

MR. MORAN:

I too would concur with the

10

stakeholder's selections here out of respect

11

for his choice.

12

the artist that -- I'm with Donald -- that

13

created obverse six, it's an excellent piece of

14

work.

15

reverse three and reverse eight.

16

go for number eleven and number five.

17

you.

18
19
20

At the same time, I think that

I also particularly like obverse --

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

My votes will
Thank

Turn now to Sam

Gill.
MR. GILL:

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

This

21

is Sam Gill.

I'm going to echo Mike and Don's

22

comments that I'm going to support the

23

stakeholder here for sure.

24

Donald that it's always good form to do that,

25

particularly with the Congressional Gold Medal.

I agree that with

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I would like to just draw attention to one

2

obverse that I particularly think is a

3

beautiful coin, and that it obverse three.

4

don't think it would work particularly well,

5

because it's very busy, but it's just really

6

pretty art to me.

7

reverse, either six or eight were just very

8

interesting to me and I like them, but I

9

certainly respect the choices that the

And then finally on the

10

stakeholder made, and that would be obverse

11

eleven and reverse five.

12

Chairman.

13
14

DR. BROWN:

I

Thank you, Mr.

Thank you so much.

Next is

Doctor --

15

MS. WARREN:

One second.

This is Jennifer

16

Warren.

17

up, it's still hard sometimes for the court

18

reporter here on his microphone.

19

especially those in the back of the room, if

20

you could just make sure you project and speak

21

up each time.

22

Please, members, if you could speak

Thank you.

DR. BROWN:

Just as a helpful, let's use

23

our outdoor voice a little bit.

24

out.

25

So,

That may help

Dr. Fuller?
DR. FULLER:

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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Thank you to the committee again.

I will be

2

voting for the stakeholders choices.

3

please allow me to make a couple of comments on

4

the -- the obverse.

5

three.

6

with the American flag.

7

be the only one that really shows that, you

8

know, he's won and that he's, you know, doing

9

it for America.

However,

I really like obverse

I like the fact that he's celebrating
I think that seems to

I also like obverse five,

10

because I think we get, we get several things

11

here.

12

not be familiar with Greg LeMond, you see his

13

face, his profile.

14

get to see what he looks like, and then, of

15

course, you see him on a bike, the years that

16

he won and things of that nature.

17

obverse six is also great because it shows him

18

in motion, it shows his speed, and so I will be

19

giving high marks to that one as well.

20

respect to the reverse, I really like two of

21

them.

22

just love "Don't ever give up."

23

it's, you know, I think it's a wonderful

24

message for people in general who might be

25

facing challenges and they need some

For those -- for those people who may

So, you get, you know, you

I think

With

The first one, reverse number one.

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inspiration.

2

I particularly like a reverse six.

3

it, the first time I saw it, it just jumped out

4

at me more so than any other design.

5

like those, but again, I will defer to the, to

6

the choices of the stakeholders.

7
8

So, I really like that one.

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

And

Just seeing

So, I

Thank you.

Next is Robin

Salmon.

9

MS. SALMON:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This

10

is Robin Salmon, and I -- I do like obverse 11,

11

the honoree's choice, but I also really like

12

obverse six.

13

but the speed implied in this particular design

14

is beautiful, and I think it has all of the

15

elements that the other design, obverse eleven,

16

has, but just put together in a more lyrical

17

way.

18

understand why he would prefer this one.

19

However, reverse three has the entire quote,

20

that I always think it's important to be

21

complete as much as possible.

22

addition of his signature, it includes the

23

world and everything that's necessary in the

24

reverse design.

25

the rider.

The motion, not just movement,

Reverse five is a very nice design, and I

It also has the

I like also the silhouette of

And this seems to sum up for me
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more of the significance of who this man was,

2

and -- or is, and what he did.

3

choices.

4

designs in this portfolio and I commend the

5

artists.

6
7
8
9

So those are my

There -- there are many lovely

Thank you.

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

Let's turn now to

Mr. Dennis Tucker.
MR. TUCKER:
is Dennis Tucker.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This

Donald, I want to kind of

10

follow up on something that you said, and that

11

Harcourt and Sam concurred with --

12

DR. BROWN:

13

MR. TUCKER:

Dennis.
Yes, thank you.

I would

14

remind the committee that congressional gold

15

medals have a history that goes back to the

16

Revolutionary War, and I think it's well within

17

our purview to analyze them from that

18

perspective.

19

personal medals, but they are national medals

20

with a -- of a personal nature.

21

LeMond's preferences, but as I said, I think as

22

a, as an advisory committee, we're within our

23

rights to look at these designs and offer our

24

expertise and insight, and I agree that obverse

25

six is much more dynamic design than obverse

Congressional gold medals are not

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1

eleven.

It's -- every design element in

2

obverse six speaks to motion and energy.

3

Arc de Triomphe is at a three-quarter profile,

4

if you will, rather than just a flat facing

5

view.

6

captures speed I think in a way that number

7

eleven does not as, as Robin pointed out.

8

Mary, I had your same concern about the

9

American flag.

The

Even the typography is in motion, and it

I think the placement is

10

unusual in number eleven.

11

that struck me.

12

triumphant in obverse three, as Dr. Fuller

13

pointed out.

14

most dynamic, energetic, motion oriented and an

15

appropriate design, and that's the one that I

16

will endorse.

17

That's something

I love the way the flag is

But for me obverse six is, is the

DR. BROWN:

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you.

This is Lawrence

18

Brown, and I want to say, first and foremost, I

19

would like to commend the artists because all

20

the designs in this portfolio are fantastic.

21

also want to applaud the comments and the

22

merits expressed by my fellow members of the

23

CCAC.

24

towards designs that are sufficiently

25

explanatory and relevant, clearly have

To me, I generally express and lean

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1

historical significance, and that will spur

2

interest.

3

public, that while we're talking about a gold

4

medal, there's an opportunity for U.S. Mint to

5

actually make bronze replicas.

6

it does make sense that we take into

7

consideration, if we're going to increase the

8

appetite of the public, that it should be

9

something that they will embrace as well.

10

the same time, I lean in the direction of

11

supporting the fav -- those favored by the --

12

by Mr. LeMond.

13

direction.

14

that the comments made by the members of the

15

CCAC are phenomenal.

16

to ask if there are any other additional

17

comments or motions from the members at this

18

time?

19

And as many may not know in the

In that sense,

At

So, I'm going to vote in that

But I do, nonetheless, underscore

MR. MENNA:

Now, I want to turn to,

I apologize for interrupting.

20

I don't know if I'm allowed to speak right now,

21

but can I just make one quick comment about the

22

obverse that Greg selected?

23
24
25

DR. BROWN:

Certainly, and you are always

welcome to speak.
MR. MENNA:

So, as far as the comments

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about the flag, I just, you know, I understand

2

that this may not be clear to members of the

3

public, but I think someone pointed out that it

4

looks like the flag is attached to the bike,

5

and that is because it is attached to the bike.

6

This is from a picture that Greg selected, and

7

it shows him at the end of the race.

8

already won the Tour de France, he's -- like I

9

believe the race ends at the Arc de Triomphe.

He has

10

And so, the idea was he had crossed the finish

11

line, and he had planted an American flag on

12

the back of his bike, and that's where the

13

image came from.

14

reiterate that I don't think, my sense is that

15

Greg was not, my sense is that he felt more

16

strongly about the obverse than the reverse.

17

I'll leave it at that.

18

liked the obverse design that we presented, and

19

he simply selected the reverse one.

20
21
22

DR. BROWN:

And I just -- I would

I think he very much

Thank you.

Thanks.

Let's go to

Donald.
MR. SCARINCI:

Let's go to Donald.

Your

23

definitive decision to embrace the one that --

24

that you selected saved you, and spared you

25

from my passion in support of what Dennis, you
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know, what Dennis feels about obverse six.

And

2

you know, I just want you, and, you know, that

3

obverse six is very a artistic, you know, very,

4

you know, would make a very compelling medal,

5

and I just had to say that because Dennis is

6

right, we are an advisory committee to advise

7

on design, and we can't let it pass without

8

telling you.

9

you know, I fully support the, you know, your

And with that said, I supported,

10

choice because it's a Congressional Gold Medal.

11

If this were a coin, this would be a much more

12

heated debate.

13

DR. BROWN:

Joe Menna?

14

MR. MENNA:

This Joe Menna.

Not to

15

editorialize, but regardless of Mr. LeMond's

16

selection, I support every design in this

17

portfolio fully.

18

see the flag shown in victory, than somebody

19

riding on top of the flag, on the flag.

20

think that that could give -- that's an odd

21

symbolism to have Mr. LeMond actually riding on

22

the flag, despite the fact that it's a

23

wonderful design.

24

I can assure you that the way number eleven

25

would be sculpted, the concerns of it looking

But personally, I'd rather

I

My comment was going to be,

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as if it's one contiguous mass would be

2

alleviated by the way it would be layered and

3

stacked, and it would look exactly the way Mr.

4

LeMond wants it to look.

5

about the flag thing, but you know, we'll talk

6

about that later.

7

DR. BROWN:

Sorry to editorialize

Thank you so much, Joe.

Thank

8

you so much.

9

any additional comments you would like to offer

10

Joe, do you and Mike or Mike have

at this time?

11

MR. MORAN:

No.

12

DR. BROWN:

Are there any additional

13

comments or clarification by April, Boneza, or

14

Mr. Connor?

15

you, Mr. Connor.

16

participated in this conversation.

17

them, the committee will now score the obverse

18

and reverse candidate designs for the

19

Congressional Gold Medal to Greg LeMond.

20

They're not.

I'm going to thank

Thank everyone who
Hearing

Each of you have in front of you a score

21

sheet, if you're here in person.

22

those who are participating virtually, you

23

should have received that from Jennifer.

24
25

Dean and

CCAC general counsel, Greg Weinman will
tally the scoresheet, and will present the
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results in a few minutes.

2

five-minute break for the scoring and tallying

3

of the score.

4

MS. WARREN:

5

DR. BROWN:

6

ten.

We will take a

Let's make it ten.
We're going to move that to

We're a generous committee.

7

(Thereupon, a break was taken,

8

and the proceeding continued as

9

follows:)

10

DR. BROWN:

We are back.

I recognize Greg

11

Weinman, counsel to the CCAC, to present the

12

results from the scoring sheets.

13

MR. WEINMAN:

The scoring being completed,

14

obverse number three received nine points.

15

Obverse number four received four points.

16

Obverse number five received five points.

17

Obverse number six received twenty-one points.

18

Obverse number nine received three points.

19

obverse eleven received twenty-seven out of 33

20

possible points.

21

the obverse.

22

twenty-seven points.

23

Reverses.

And

That is the high scorer for

It's obverse eleven with

Reverse one received seven

24

points.

Reverse two received four points.

25

Reverse three received nine points.
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five received twenty-seven out of thirty-three

2

points, that is the high scorer for reverse is

3

reverse five.

4

reverse eight received fourteen points.

5

Reverse six received ten.

DR. BROWN:

Thank you, Greg.

And

Are there

6

any motions?

Hearing none, I'm assuming then

7

that the committee is, in fact, supporting the

8

votes as been tallied too.

9

further debate?

Is there any

If -- since all discussion has

10

been concluded, I will call the question, all

11

those in favor of what you heard, aye?

12
13

(Aye)
DR. BROWN:

Those opposed?

It appears

14

that the motion has passed.

Are there any

15

further motions?

16

all discussion has concluded, then we'll move

17

to the next order of business, but we want to

18

thank Mr. Connor for having joined us today.

19

want to thank Ms. Hanchock for her contribution

20

and Mr.

Hearing or seeing none, if

I

Evans as well.

21

MR. CONNOR:

22

DR. BROWN:

Thank you all very much.
Now April will present the

23

reverse candidate designs for the 2024 American

24

Innovation $1-coin, honoring innovations in the

25

State of Maine.
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MS. STAFFORD:

Thank you so much.

And

2

first, just a little bit of general information

3

about the program.

4

the American Innovation Dollar Coin Act that

5

requires the Secretary of the Treasury to mint

6

and issue dollar coins, with a reverse design

7

honoring innovation or innovators from each

8

state in the union, as well as the territories

9

and the District of Columbia.

It is Public Law 115-197,

In accordance

10

with the Act, the United States Mint worked

11

with the governors of the states being honored

12

in 2024, to develop design concepts or themes

13

for the coins.

14

approved those concepts.

15

The Secretary of the Treasury

Candidate designs for the first two states

16

to be honored in 2024, specifically, Illinois

17

and Alabama, were presented to you in June of

18

2022, and the final two states for Maine and

19

Missouri for 2024 are presented here now.

20

worked with liaisons and experts from each

21

state in developing the following candidate

22

designs.

23

will remain the same as in previous years, and

24

will contain a unique gear shaped privy mark to

25

distinguish the date, or the set for this, for

We

The obverse design for this program

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the 2024 annual issuances.

2

have the theme to honor the innovator, Dr.

3

Bernard Lown.

4

So, for Maine, we

So, a little bit of background about Dr.

5

Lown.

Lithuanian American cardiologist, Dr.

6

Bernard Lown, was a pioneer in public health, a

7

graduate of Lewiston High School and the

8

University of Maine, Dr. Lown immigrated from

9

Lithuania to Maine at the age of 14 to escape

10

Nazi persecution.

In 1962, Dr. Lown, a leader

11

in cardiac research in cooperation with

12

engineer Baruch Berkowitz, developed the

13

defibrillator, a new method for correcting

14

dangerously abnormal heart rhythms called

15

fibrillations.

16

believed to be responsible for 40% of the half

17

million fatal heart attacks in the United

18

States every year.

19

lifesaving technique worldwide, and helped make

20

open heart surgery possible.

21

new era of cardiac resuscitation techniques and

22

technological developments, including modern

23

pacemakers and defibrillators implanted in the

24

chest of heart patients that automatically

25

detect and correct abnormal rhythms.

Fibrillations at the time were

This breakthrough became a

It ushered in a

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portfolio you'll see does focus on honoring Dr.

2

Lown, and depicts his role as co-creator of the

3

direct current defibrillator, as an innovator,

4

Dr. Lown's career went far beyond this

5

important medical device.

6

edge approach approaches to public health, drug

7

treatment, coronary care units, and the impact

8

of stress on cardiovascular health.

9

was also active in anti-nuclear proliferation

It included cutting

Dr. Lown

10

advocacy, and in 1985 accepted the Nobel Peace

11

Prize as a founding member on behalf of the

12

International Physicians for the Prevention of

13

Nuclear War.

14

I should note that several designs in this

15

portfolio, if recommended to the Secretary,

16

will need to be adjusted to accommodate a

17

legislative requirement, that there be no head

18

and shoulders depiction of any person.

19

speak to those designs as we move through the

20

portfolio for review, and we have our chief

21

engraver and our legal counsel with us, if you

22

have any specific questions relating to that.

23

Also, the Governor's Office of Maine identified

24

design one as a preference.

25

recommendation of the CFA.

I will

It is also the
Representatives

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from the Lown family expressed an appreciation

2

for design eight.

3

governor's office had an unexpected conflict,

4

but his deputy, the main deputy treasurer, Greg

5

Olsen, should be with us today to answer any

6

questions you may have.

7

to have a family representative, Anne Lown,

8

with us today also, and it's my understanding

9

that Ms. Lown would like to say a few words.

Our liaison with the main

We are fortunate also

10

So if it's okay with Mr. Olsen, I'll defer to

11

Ms. Lown first, if that's okay, Mr. Chair, yes?

12

DR. BROWN:

13

MS. STAFFORD:

14

That is okay.
Ms. Lown, would you like to

say a few words?

15

MS. LOWN:

Yes.

16

MS. STAFFORD:

17

MS. LOWN:

Hello.
Hello.

Okay.

Thank you to Dr. Brown

18

and members of the Committee for the

19

opportunity to introduce you to my father, Dr.

20

Bernard Lown, who died in 2021 at the age of

21

99.

22

children and grandchildren.

23

I am speaking as a representative of his

To say that he had a long fulfilling life

24

is to say the very least.

As you heard, he

25

came to the U.S. at age 14, a refugee from
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Lithuania escaping anti-Semitism.

Many family

2

members left behind were murdered in the second

3

world war, and this profoundly shaped my dad

4

and his concern for social justice and world

5

peace.

6

speaking no English.

7

language.

8

honors program at the University of Maine.

9

graduated summa cum laude.

At 14, he arrived in Lewiston, Maine
Yiddish was his only

And at 17, he was admitted to the
He

My dad always stood

10

up for social justice, even when at personal

11

risk.

12

school where there was a quota for Jews and

13

women and non-African American students.

14

there, he worked at the Hopkins Blood Bank,

15

where he discovered that black and white blood

16

was segregated.

17

racist system, but found a way to undermine and

18

relabeling the blood.

19

suspended from medical school and a group of

20

friends protested his suspension.

21

to be reinstated to medical school, but fired

22

from the blood bank.

23

a cardiologist and a research scientist.

24

was always committed to the use of science and

25

technology to serve humanity.

He attended Johns Hopkins, a medical

While

My dad refused to honor the

When discovered, he was

He was able

My dad went on to become

In spite of

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being a technology pioneer, he was always in

2

search of the least invasive treatment to

3

improve patient outcomes.

4

sudden cardiac death, which was causing

5

fatalities throughout the world.

6

he was studying how stress and intense emotions

7

can affect one's health and even lead to death,

8

and as has been stated, this lead in 1962 to

9

the invention of the defibrillator.

He became focused on

At this time,

He refused

10

to get a patent as he did not want to profit

11

off his invention, but to have it globally

12

available.

13

of medicine, and he continued to see patients

14

until age 86.

15

body are integrated, and to help his patients,

16

he adds, listened empathically to their life

17

stories.

18

Practicing Compassion" in 1996, a best seller.

19

My dad was always concerned with the state of

20

the world.

21

professional life keeping people alive while

22

the world was building nuclear weapons that

23

would wipe out all life on the planet.

24

1962, he co-founded Physicians for Social

25

Responsibility, an organization that educated

His greatest love was the practice

He recognized that the mind and

He wrote "The Lost Art of Healing:

He wondered how he could spend his

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millions on the medical consequences of nuclear

2

war.

3

Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War

4

that enlisted 135,000 doctors from nations,

5

mobilizing to the dangers of nuclear war.

6

1985, the organization won the Nobel Peace

7

Prize.

8

solemn oath to preserve health and protect

9

life, they assume responsibility for the

10

In 1980, he co-founded the International

In

As my dad wrote, "When doctors take the

well-being of the human family."

11

In 1988, he launched a satellite which

12

connected health care workers in developing

13

world, with up-to-date medical information.

14

2008, he began The Lown Scholars Program, a

15

global initiative based at the Harvard School

16

of Public Health, to bring together physicians

17

from the developing world, to be trained in the

18

use of public health strategies.

19

Lown scholars from 23 countries have been

20

trained.

21

a think tank, to translate my dad's vision of a

22

healthier world into a reality by advocating

23

bold ideas for a just and caring system.

24

in the darkest of times, my dad had an undying

25

optimism in faith in humanity.

In

To date, 92

He also inspired the Lown Institute,

Even

He believed

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that each of us could make a difference in

2

changing the world if we join with others.

3

my life, I heard my dad's voice asking, what am

4

I doing to make a better world?

5

passion for life, a great storyteller, an

6

incredible memory.

7

world, loved classical music, art, literature.

8

He knew how to understand that to understand

9

human beings we must read world literature, and

All

He had a

He traveled all over the

10

each morning at medical rounds, he would ask

11

his medical residents what they were reading.

12

And he was most passionate about my mother,

13

Louise, his wife of more than 70 years, who

14

accompanied him on this journey and shared his

15

commitment to making a better world.

16

at a in 2019 at age 96.

17

honored and wishes to thank Governor Mills for

18

recommending Bernard Lown to represent Maine

19

for the 2024 American Innovation Dollar coin.

20

MS. STAFFORD:

She died

My family is so

Thank you so much, Ms.

21

Lown.

We really appreciate hearing about your

22

father.

23

thank you so much for being with us today.

24

Would you like to add anything or are you

25

comfortable with us moving through the

Thank you so, so much.

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2

candidate options?
MR. OLSEN:

I just want to add, you know,

3

Dr. Lown is somebody that is -- who the state

4

of Maine and Mainers can be extremely proud,

5

and we're very pleased to see him honored in

6

this way, and eager to see the decision of the

7

committee.

8
9

MS. STAFFORD:

Thank you so much.

So, if

it's okay, I will proceed with going through

10

the candidate designs.

11

for these coins are United States of America

12

and Maine.

13

Required inscriptions

So, we'll start with design one.

This design features a profile portrait of

14

Dr. Lown.

A lightning bolt splits an

15

electrocardiogram line under Dr.

16

the effective application of his innovative

17

direct current defibrillation in converting a

18

dangerous case of ventricular fibrillation to a

19

stable and healthy heartbeat.

20

"Dr. Bernard Lown" and "DC defibrillator" round

21

out the design.

22

preference of our liaison, the Governor, and it

23

is also the recommendation of the CFA.

24

also one of the designs it recommended to the

25

Secretary, that would need to be adjusted to

Lown, showing

The inscriptions

I will note that this is the

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ensure we comply with the legislative

2

requirement that no head and shoulders of any

3

person be depicted in this program, and so the

4

Mint team has come together and would

5

recommend, that the banner that you see across

6

the lower area be lowered slightly, and to

7

allow for more of his torso to be depicted.

8

And so that would do one of two things.

9

certainly increase the inscription "Maine" and

We can

10

the device, the defibrillator.

11

represented symbolically, obviously, through

12

that device that cuts through the center of the

13

design, and as we know from the theme that's

14

been selected, it is Dr. Lown that is being

15

honored as opposed to the innovation

16

specifically of the defibrillator.

17

our chief engraver and our legal counsel, we

18

have Liz Young joining us via the conference,

19

can answer any questions as the committee

20

members may have them.

21

Device is

We'll move on to design 2A.

And again,

This design

22

represents a portrait of Dr. Lown above an

23

electrocardiogram line, going from an irregular

24

to a regular rhythm.

25

starburst, suggesting the defibrillation made

A heart appears with a

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possible by the defibrillator.

2

inscription, "Bernard Lown, MD" appears below

3

the (unintelligible).

4

committee's information, the design previously

5

labeled 2B has been removed from consideration.

6

So, when you see that on your score sheets,

7

that should be ignored.

8

of that when scoring takes place.

9

The

Okay, and for the

And we will remind you

Okay, moving on to Design 3A and 3B.

10

These designs portray Dr. Lown administering

11

defibrillation to a patient.

12

appears to the right of Dr. Lown and the

13

inscriptions "Dr. Bernard Lown" and "DC

14

defibrillator" on cues below.

15

inscription "Dr. Bernard Lown" appears above

16

the starburst with "direct current

17

defibrillator" below.

18

committee's information, the design previously

19

labeled four has been removed, and we will note

20

that when scoring comes.

In 3A, a heart

In 3B, the

Again, for the

21

Design five features a large heart with a

22

starburst and an electrocardiogram line in the

23

background.

24

M.D."

25

appear above and below the heart.

The inscription "Dr. Bernard Lown,

And "direct current defibrillator"

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shows a doctor's hands gripping direct current

2

defibrillator paddles.

3

current defibrillator" appears above the

4

composition.

5

design would be updated to include the

6

inscription "Dr. Bernard Lown".

7

The inscription "direct

Just a note, if recommended, this

Design 7A and 7B present a human torso as

8

a central device.

In 7A, a cardioverter

9

paddles flanks each side of the torso with the

10

incused inscription "The Lown Cardioverter"

11

along its bottom.

12

Asclepius -- forgive me if I'm mispronouncing

13

that -- the classical symbol of healing over

14

the heart of the patient.

15

appears incused along the coin's border to

16

symbolize the action of the cardioverter and

17

electrodes appear on the torso.

18

7B shows the rod of

Stylized electricity

And finally, design eight presents a

19

profile portrait of Dr. Lown with his direct

20

current defibrillator in operation below.

21

design is flanked by the inscriptions "Dr.

22

Bernard Lown" and "direct current

23

defibrillation".

24

the Lown family has expressed deep appreciation

25

for, in particular because of the portrait of

The

This design is the one that

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1

their father.

2

designs.

3

That concludes the candidate

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

Are there

4

any technical or legal questions from the

5

committee about this program, or these designs

6

for the 2024 Maine American Innovation Dollar

7

Coin?

8

I want to recognize Art.

9

MR. BERNSTEIN:

Before we begin our general discussion,

Thank you.

10

Bernstein.

11

discussion of the modifications to design one,

12

were any of the words going to be removed or I

13

just didn't --

14

I have two questions.

This is Art

MS. STAFFORD:

In the

It is very possible.

I

15

won't say likely.

I'll defer to our chief

16

engraver on that, that in shifting that banner

17

down, that the inscription that would remain

18

would be Maine, and this accomplishes two

19

things.

20

we need to illustrate more of his torso, but it

21

also plants the focus firmly on Dr. Lown as the

22

honoree, as opposed to naming an innovation

23

that he co-invented amongst his numerous,

24

numerous accomplishments.

25

to --

Not only does it address the need that

Joe, may I ask you

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MR. MENNA:

Sure.

This is Joe Menna.

2

Yeah.

It's not just you, Art, the entire

3

committee, say if you were to lower the

4

horizontal element -- say the top of the

5

horizontal element was lowered to about the

6

midpoint of the EKG readout, you could lower

7

the name and have it arched along the bottom of

8

the coin.

9

because I think it should be more prominent if

Probably beef it a little bit

10

it's by itself.

So, that would create, it

11

already is a built in exergue there.

12

that would accommodate more of the figure.

13

it meets the legislative requirements.

14

defibrillator would be difficult to accommodate

15

with this adjustment, because as April said the

16

defibrillator -- sorry it's a tongue twister

17

for me and I suffer from a (unintelligible).

18

So, yeah, I believe the EKG readily supplies us

19

with what the apparatus is, and again we're

20

celebrating him.

21

you guys what to think, but I'm not -- I'm not

22

advising the committee how to think, but

23

symbolically and compositionally we can fully

24

accommodate the legislative request for your

25

consideration.

So that
So,

DC

So, I think, I'm not telling

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MR. BERNSTEIN:

Thank you.

That was

2

helpful.

3

see different -- as we look at the different

4

designs, there are different ways in which Dr.

5

Lown's title is used.

6

doctor, in some cases it's M.D., and I think in

7

some cases it was both.

8

just curious how that decision was made and

9

what is -- is there one correct way or, or all

10

I had a second question, April.

I

In some cases, it's

I'm not a doctor.

I'm

of them correct?

11

MS. STAFFORD:

So, our understanding

12

currently is that Dr. Bernard Lown or Bernard

13

Lown, M.D., is correct.

14

one with both --

15

MR. BERNSTEIN:

16

MS. STAFFORD:

17

20

I may have --- we would -- we would

recommend eliminating one or the other.

18
19

If there -- if you see

MR. BERNSTEIN:

So --

Yes, design five has them

both.
MS. STAFFORD:

That would be something

21

that if recommend that we would want to

22

address.

Certainly.

23

DR. BROWN:

24

MR. SCARINCI:

25

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

Donald?
A question about --

Donald?

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MR. SCARINCI:

A question -- Donald

2

Scarinci.

3

sorry, maybe it's six.

4

would you insert the doctors name there?

5

A question about number 7A, or I'm

MR. MENNA:

Number six.

Where

This is Joe Menna again.

6

Again, as April noted with the previous design,

7

the apparatus is clearly visible.

8

primary element along with the hands.

9

could take direct current defibrillator away,

It is the
So, you

10

and replace with the doctor's name very easily,

11

I believe very easily.

12

MR. SCARINCI:

Or could you put the

13

doctor's name under direct current

14

defibrillator, and just continue that in the

15

same type?

16

MR. MENNA:

This is Joe Menna again.

17

There used to be a member of the committee who

18

was always talking about negative space, and

19

advocating the use of it.

20

committee member who might still be on the

21

committee, I would say no.

22

UNKNOWN SPEAKER:

23
24
25

So, in honor of that

There still is.

There

still is.
MR. MENNA:
there.

But that's a great shape

It's a great shape in between there I
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think.

But whatever you -- I'm not going to

2

tell you guys what to do.

3

give my advice, my opinion.

4

DR. BROWN:

5

MS. SALMON:

I'm just here to
Thank you.

Any other comments?
This is Robin Salmon.

I'm

6

having a very hard time hearing everybody.

7

don't know whether it's a device I'm using, or

8

whether you're just not close enough to the

9

microphones.

10

DR. BROWN:

11

Lawrence Brown.

12

fact that we're so much involved with being

13

diplomatic, that we'll make sure that we

14

actually convey and project our voices going

15

forward.

16

MS. SALMON:

17

DR. BROWN:

18
19

Thank you, Robin.

This is

I think it's because of the

Thank you.
Are there any other questions

or comments from the committee?
MS. LANNIN:

I

Mary?

This is Mary Lannin.

When

20

April first began talking about this coin, we

21

are honoring the doctor not the innovation.

22

And as much as I like the cleanness of 06, that

23

shows the innovation not the innovator.

24

think that that we need to figure out how to

25

adjust the portraits of Dr. Lown.
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DR. BROWN:

2

other comments?

3

do you have something additional you want to

4

add?

5

Thank you very much.

Any

If not, then let us -- April,

MS. STAFFORD:

I just wanted to

6

acknowledge Robin's comment on behalf of the

7

Mint.

8

members' patience, as we reenter our in-person

9

meetings with the new technology that that we

We really appreciate all of the CCAC

10

are employing.

11

focusing on this, and we will be reaching out

12

to collect any notes that you have of your

13

experience and having a meeting afterwards of

14

lessons learned to ensure that we improve all

15

of this for our next in-person meeting.

16

thank you very much, Robin and Peter, for

17

joining us virtually, and we will continue to

18

improve the aspects that you're experiencing.

19

So, on behalf of the Mint, just wanted to say

20

that.

21
22
23

We do have our I.T. team fully

So,

Thank you.
DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much, April.

really appreciate that.
Let us begin our conversation -- our

24

consideration of the issues.

As before, I'd

25

like to remind members to please try to keep
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your comments to five minutes or less and

2

identify yourself prior to speaking.

3

remember that we need to make sure we project,

4

so that others in the room, and I would suggest

5

that every member of that project at least in

6

my direction.

7

likely that the speaker, speakers will pick you

8

up and pick up your voice.

9

track of time.

Also,

So, if you do that, then it's

We'll be keeping

Additionally, if there are any

10

members who have questions or comments on any

11

program matter, please refrain from asking them

12

during this time until you are recognized, or

13

at the end of the discussion of the program,

14

when I will ask you again are there any

15

additional comments.

16

court reporter and those calling in, I ask that

17

you speak again loudly due to the microphones,

18

microphones, and to state your name when you

19

begin speaking.

20

with Sam Gill.

21

MR. GILL:

For the benefit of the

Let us begin this conversation

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

This

22

is Sam Gill.

I had originally settled on our

23

first obverse, I mean 01, because I like the

24

whole, the whole picture.

25

electrocardiogram going across, but I also

I like the

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really like the DC -- D5 open the

2

(unintelligible).

3

So, I like that.

4

that it goes on the coin because it designates

5

the invention -- the innovation that occurred.

6

So, I had to move away from a 01, and just for

7

the sake of art, I liked 02A, but it doesn't

8

have it on there as well.

9

family preference, which was number eight,

You know, the defibrillator.
But I think that's important

So, I settled on the

10

because it does describe the invention, and I'm

11

not crazy about it, but it, but I, it's, it's,

12

it's, it's still good, and that's where I

13

settled out, number eight.

14
15
16

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

Let's turn

now to Mary Lannin.
MS. LANNIN:

Well, I started to say

17

earlier -- this is Mary Lannin.

I actually

18

preferred number one.

19

to make adjustments to it, but I thought that

20

it was really interesting that sort of like the

21

lightning bolt was pointed right at his heart,

22

and so it divided it into an emergency before

23

and sort of calmness and regularness after.

24

So, my preference is number one.

25

family's preference is number eight.

I know that we're going

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it's just got too much going on, and if I need

2

to see defibrillator, I don't want to see DC

3

defibrillator.

4

direct current defibrillator.

5

know, as a, as a shorthand for where we meet,

6

and so I'd like to see direct current

7

defibrillator.

8

with April's notice that we are honoring the

9

man not the invention, I prefer number one.

10
11
12
13

I would like it spelled out
We're in DC, you

So, with that being said and

Thank you.
DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

Turn now to

Donald.
MR. SCARINCI:

I have to very passionately

14

disagree with the whole concept of honoring the

15

man, right.

16

an American innovation series, right, and we

17

are only -- we're not even halfway through

18

this, this, this program and halfway through

19

the series, and if we do this today, then we

20

are opening the door to a whole other series,

21

that is not honoring innovations but honoring

22

the person.

23

he should have a commemorative coin.

24

commemorative coin should be for this person.

25

Remarkable.

So, I'm sorry about that.

This is

This is a remarkable person, and
A whole

There is no taking it away from

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this man, all right.

But this is just not the

2

place to do this.

3

this.

4

I, and I, and I would only pray that this would

5

be an outlier in this series, but my fear,

6

since the states are all involved, if we do

7

this, we're not going to see the last of it,

8

and there are many remarkable people in

9

America, and there are many people that

This is not the series to do

And this would be, and this would -- and

10

Congress should commemorate and we are

11

including him -- including many of those topics

12

in our annual report, and we certainly should

13

include, you know, in the annual report, a

14

recommendation to honor this man, right, who

15

deserves it.

16

It's not the series.

17

of these designs that have, that have a double

18

portrait, no matter how, you know, creative.

19

You know, I'm a lawyer, so I can, you know, we

20

do creative things, right.

21

creatively we want to interpret it, it's just

22

not the right thing to do, and I can't do it.

23

So, I think, you know, I'm going to give all of

24

my support to number six.

25

innovation, which is a remarkable innovation

But this is just not the place.
And I can't support any

And no matter how

I'm honoring the

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that saved, that's saved countless lives.

2

and, you know, and, and it is, it is truly a

3

significant innovation for any state and Maine

4

should be very proud.

5

I have to give all of my votes to number six.

6

Thank you.

7
8
9

DR. BROWN:

And,

So, I, having said that,

Thank you.

That was Donald

I'm sorry.

This is Elizabeth

Scarinci.
MS. YOUNG:

10

Young.

11

I just wanted to jump in real quick, to clarify

12

that the legislation for this coin program does

13

allow for honoring either an innovation or

14

innovator.

15

understand that that is something that we're

16

able to do in this program, and that we have

17

done prior in other states for this program.

18

Thank you.

19

I'm a legal counsel for this program.

Just to make sure that you all

UNKNOWN SPEAKER:

There was, just for the

20

record, Annie Jump Cannon came in this series.

21

It was the first coin in the series, I believe.

22

Septima Clark and Ralph Baer, that one did not

23

depict the man but the invention.

24

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

Joe?

25

MR. MENNA:

This is Joe Menna.

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we're supposed to wait until the end.

2

just reminded me.

3

semantics with an attorney, let alone Donald

4

Scarinci, but I would not consider it a double

5

portrait as to obverse, as a sculptor, as a

6

sculpture of the Statue of Liberty, scenes from

7

afar, it would be the only portrait on the

8

coin.

9

11

I would never argue

With all due respect, Donald.
MR. SCARINCI:

10

My boss

DR. BROWN:

No, absolutely.

Thank you all.

Let's turn now

to Michael.

12

MR. MORAN:

Dr. Brown, this is Mike Moran.

13

If it were me in isolation, I would pick design

14

reverse one.

15

But as I've listen, and I wanted to envision

16

lowering the tape, and the printout of the

17

heartbeats, I can't get there.

I think it's

18

going to mess with the design.

I really do.

19

also, I know we don't want to get into issues

20

of opposing counsels here, but I'm on Donald's

21

side.

22

did the dial on the telephone.

23

it is the innovation.

24
25

It's the most pleasing to me.

I

We didn't do Alexander Graham Bell; we
To me at heart,

I'm sorry.

On the other hand, his life story is
compelling.

Absolutely compelling.

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look at number five.

2

much as number one, and it focuses upon the

3

heart.

4

spelled out.

5

negative space.

6

most lovely thing to look at, but we all need

7

it.

8

support number one, that's where I would go.

9

So, we're probably going to be all over the

10
11

Right there, that says as

His name is there, direct current is
It's simple.

There is plenty of

I know the heart isn't the

Given that I can't really make myself

place.
MS. STAFFORD:

Chairman Brown, I'm sorry

12

we were --I was conferring with the chief

13

engraver because both Mr. Moran and Mr.

14

Scarinci brought up design one.

15

make sure for the record, at least I can

16

clarify the option that we described for how to

17

adjust it.

18

yes, thank you -- was what the team would

19

suggest.

20

to retain both the inscriptions in the lower

21

portion, and I asked Joe Menna, our chief

22

engraver, to speak to that in case, in case you

23

would consider multiple options.

24

your information.

25

I wanted to

If we would go to design one --

But there is another way, I believe,

MR. MENNA:

But just for

This is Joseph Menna, and

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Roger can help me on this one.

2

has been very instrumental in the development

3

of our template creation, which is, which are

4

minimum sizes for coinability, not minimum

5

sizes for visibility.

6

that is, that is, we have templates for all

7

different denominations of CGM's and stuff that

8

provide the minimum letter text heights and

9

stuff like that.

But I don't recommend the

10

minimum usually.

But here I think we can go

11

down a little bit, in the current -- in the

12

size of it.

13

template?

14

little bit?

15

names so it's nested within DC defibrillator,

16

like an excerpt within an excerpt sort of?

17

It'll make its own little semi lunar shape,

18

drop that down, you could, you could, you could

19

still drop the full horizontal element down,

20

same as discussed and keep the full text.

21

would just be less legible.

22

coinable.

23

option, not a recommendation.

24
25

Roger Vasquez

So, we have a template

Right, Rog, according to our
If we shrunk DC defibrillator down a
Kept that mark?

That's one option.

DR. BROWN:

Then we drop

It

But it would be
This is an

Thank you so much for that

additional information.
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MR. MENNA:

Yes, sir.

2

DR. BROWN:

Dr. Fuller?

3

DR. FULLER:

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I

4

have to say that one of the joys of serving on

5

this committee, is when you get to learn about

6

wonderful Americans, wonderful global citizens

7

that just knock your socks off, and I really,

8

really mean that.

9

this wonderful person who forgo the potential

Just to learn about this,

10

for profit, forgoing a patent because he wanted

11

this to be available to humanity, and all of

12

the wonderful things that he has done

13

throughout his long life is really and truly

14

inspiring.

15

note, my wife, Dr. Christina Fuller, is a

16

graduate of the Harvard School of Public

17

Health.

18

know about the work that he did with that

19

school as well, in service of humanity.

20

I'm just so happy to learn about this wonderful

21

human being, and we need more people like that

22

in this world, quite frankly.

23

I liked 1, 3B and I like 3B because I, I really

24

believe that you cannot separate the innovation

25

from the innovator.

And if I may, just on a personal

So, I'm sure she will be delighted to

So,

With that said,

I think that, pun

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intended, they are two sides of the same coin.

2

So, I like the fact that we're seeing Dr. Lown,

3

as well as his invention in 3B, and I also

4

appreciate 8 for the same reasons.

5

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

A reminder

6

for my colleagues, remember to state your name

7

before you begin speaking pretty, please.

8

Next, let's turn to Robin Salmon.

9
10

MS. SALMON:

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

This Robin Salmon.

11

DR. BROWN:

12

MS. SALMON:

She has froze.
-- for his points.

I'm drawn

13

to both the innovator and the innovation, and

14

for that reason, 3B is the one that I

15

preferred.

16

the elements that are required.

17

man in action.

18

which to me is important.

19

it also has the symbolism of what the

20

defibrillator is all about.

21

I am mindful, however, of the family's

22

preference and I will certainly be giving

23

points to number eight for that reason.

24

has the defibrillator in action and all of the

25

other requirements, at least in my mind.

It seems to have, for me, all of
It shows the

It spells out direct current,
It has his name, and

Sorry about that.

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2
3
4

you very much.
DR. BROWN:
now to Mr.

Thank you so much.

Let's turn

Dennis Tucker.

MR. TUCKER:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This

5

is Dennis Tucker.

And if Ms. Lown is still

6

there, I wanted to thank you for that wonderful

7

description of your father's life and work.

8

couple of things you said stuck out to me as

9

you were speaking with us.

A

You commented on

10

his commitment to the well-being of the human

11

family, and you emphasized his question, what

12

am I doing to make a better world?

13

wonderful.

14

MS. LOWD:

15

MR. TUCKER:

That's

Thank you.
Thanks to you, and thanks to

16

your family and to your father, of course.

I

17

like number eight, which was the family's

18

preference.

19

in the weight of the lettering than some of the

20

other designs have.

21

emphasis to Dr. Lown's name, but it also spells

22

out direct current defibrillator, and I like

23

the use of a cameo portrait.

24

that we don't often see in American coinage.

25

That really spoke to me.

I think this has a better balance

It gives a little more

That's something

I just like, I like

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the way that looks.

2

is a good combination of the innovator and the

3

innovation, and it works quite well.

4

are my comments.

5
6

DR. BROWN:

So, I think, I think this

So those

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you.

Let's turn now to

Dean.

7

MR. KOTLOWSKI:

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

8

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman, for having me go near

9

the end, because this was a design portfolio

10

that, that I struggled with.

11

to pay tribute to this Ms. Lown and to Dr.

12

Lown.

13

absolutely beautiful, was inspired, and

14

inspiring, and eloquent and very much befitting

15

of your father and his magnificent

16

accomplishments, and I was really looking for

17

the committee to provide me with leadership and

18

guidance, and you did, just not a lot of

19

clarity.

20

there, and I think I'm just going to speak from

21

the heart as a collector of this series.

22

Ms.

And I also want

Lown, I thought what you said was

There's a lot of good thoughts out

The coins that I really like to look at in

23

the series are simple, forceful, mechanical,

24

and geometrical.

25

for me very well in this.

Landscapes don't really work
We've got one in the

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series and the portraits don't work quite as --

2

quite as well, although the exception here is

3

any Annie Jump Cannon.

4

first coins in the series and that was -- that

5

was wonderful artistry, beautiful artistry

6

integrated in with the history and the

7

biography.

8

of a, there's more of a struggle as I was going

9

through these designs.

That was one of the

And here, there's a little bit more

I appreciated Dennis's

10

comments because I do like the cameo in number

11

eight, and I do like the family's design, and I

12

want to be very mindful of what the family is

13

interested in and prefers.

14

qualifications I mentioned before about

15

geometrical, you know, and having a nice, I

16

think, very sort of clean design.

17

number six is very, very, very nice.

18

the way, I forgot; my name is Dean Kotlowski.

19

So, I forgot my name before.

20

wondering what the family would feel if you

21

removed, as was suggested, direct current

22

defibrillator, and we put Dr. Lown's name.

23

There's a part of me that still feels we need

24

his portrait here, I think, to give him a kind

25

of visibility because he is not as well-known

All of the

Number six,
And by

Number six, I'm

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as other scientific innovators.

So, that

2

brings me to two designs.

3

what you're saying about all the adjustments,

4

and so on and so forth.

5

adjustments, it's a little too bland and a

6

little too inactive for me.

7

to hear Dr.

8

think 3B is a little busy.

9

going on here.

Number one, I hear

I just think after the

I was very pleased

Fuller and Robin mention 3B.

I

There's quite a bit

You know, you have the sort of

10

star there in the middle.

11

it shows quote/unquote, man in action, and I

12

also like the outline at the bottom of the

13

human figure that he is, that he's engaged

14

with, and I think that this is a nice design

15

that I'm going to give some points to, but, you

16

know, I started out all over the place and I

17

think, I think to some extent that I still am

18

on these designs.

19

Chair.

20
21

DR. BROWN:

But as Robyn said,

Thank you very much, Mr.

Thank you so much.

Let's turn

now to Peter.

22

MR. VAN ALFEN:

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

23

This is Peter Van Alfen.

24

preface my comments by thanking Ms. Lown as

25

well for her wonderful introduction to her

I also want to

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father.

2

of Googling of her father.

3

great deal more from her, of course, than ever

4

would have from the Internet.

5

again very much for her comments.

6

I, of course, have done a little bit
I've learned a

So, thank you

Now, I have to say that like Dean, I also

7

struggle with this portfolio.

I am not a huge

8

fan of number one, simply because I don't find

9

it particularly attractive design but also, I

10

think that there is a lot of information here

11

that might be lost on some observers, for

12

example, might not be entirely clear what DC

13

mean.

14

colleagues have raised.

15

electrocardiogram graph there.

16

size of a relatively small coin might not

17

convey what it's supposed to mean.

18

also not a huge fan of the lightning bolt

19

because it seems a little bit comic book like.

20

While, like Mike, I also quite like the

21

elegance and simplicity of the number five for

22

the negative space, there are certain problems

23

with this as well.

24

again, if the representation, the sort of

25

anatomically graphic representation of the

This is something that a number of my
But also just the
You know, the

And I'm

I'm not entirely sure,

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heart would necessarily not be lost on some of

2

the observers.

3

might look a little bit too much like a frozen

4

chicken, for example.

5

hugely fond of this starburst in the middle of,

6

again, because of the sort of comic book

7

element.

8

number eight, the families preference the best

9

from the portfolio.

I think from a distance, it

And again, I'm not

All told, I have to say I do like

Like Dennis, I really do

10

like this cameo portraits, and as Dr.

11

said as well, I think the balance between the

12

innovator and the innovation is nicely conveyed

13

here.

14

number eight.

15
16
17

Fuller

So, my preference overall, I think is

DR. BROWN:

Thank you very much.
Thank you so much.

Let's turn

now to Art.
MR. BERNSTEIN:

Hello, this is Arthur

18

Bernstein.

I'm pleased to be speaking on the

19

Maine one dollar coin.

20

for a family reunion, and there I learned that

21

Maine is the only state name that is a single

22

syllable.

23

now as I speak, but I can assure you it's true.

24

I'm going to speak in favor of design eight,

25

and I support that for all the reasons that

I was recently in Maine

You'll all be thinking about that

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have been stated by my colleagues.

I think

2

this silhouette is very distinguished.

3

it's busy, but I think it's busy, the design is

4

busy in a good way.

5

or we choose, or we, or design one is selected.

6

In either case, I wanted to comment on two

7

matters of abbreviation.

8

should use DC because of its similarity to a

9

geographic place, and I, I prefer that we have

I find

If we choose that design

I don't think we

10

Dr. Lown's name with M.D. after his name, as

11

opposed to the doctor abbreviation because I

12

think it clarifies that he is a medical doctor

13

and not a PhD.

Thank you.

14

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

This is

15

Lawrence Brown.

16

series and this design has been very

17

interesting to me.

18

again thank you, Ms. Lown, for the information

19

you provided about your father, and let me

20

share with the committee members my bias.

21

all know that I'm a physician.

22

in addiction medicine.

23

So typically, when someone is going to have a

24

picture about an anatomical picture of the

25

body, I'm generally interested in knowing

And I must confess that this

First and foremost, let me

You

I'm a physician

I'm not a cardiologist.

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whether other colleagues have been consulted to

2

determine that it's a faithful representation.

3

But hearing from Ms.

4

a little bit of Googling as well to hear more

5

about the foundation, I really feel that the

6

defibrillator is understating his innovation.

7

When you think about the contributions he's

8

made, as stated by his daughter, they far, in

9

fact, exceed those things that, in fact,

Lown and actually, I did

10

reduction in deaths due to defibrillator.

11

when my colleague Dr. Fuller shared with us

12

about his wife, those in public health would

13

probably say amen to that, because they would

14

say that oftentimes in medicine we talk about

15

the pill, the injection, as opposed to other

16

things we do in life, that improve life.

17

in a way, I must confess that the defibrillator

18

is understating this, and to the extent to

19

which we go forward with that, I would

20

recommend that the Mint actually does even a

21

greater job to really speak to the

22

contributions that this physician has given.

23

must agree with Art with respect to the M.D.

24

versus the D.R., and part of this, I must

25

confess, I do it with some caution.
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So,

I do it

I

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with caution because sometimes we physicians

2

are viewed as arrogant.

3

that.

4

with a lot of PhDs, sometimes they feel that

5

we, in fact, do not really appreciate their

6

contribution.

7

public is going to review this coin, I think it

8

is better to be clear than to have them wonder,

9

because there are a number of scientists who

10

are involved in scientific research that are

11

not MDs.

12

must confess that as much as I appreciate the

13

suggestions by the family on design number

14

eight, I think this still understates his

15

contribution as an innovator.

16

based on what I've heard from his daughter, and

17

what I've read from the Internet.

18

same time, I also recognize that design number

19

one, is one for which, yes, it's going to stir

20

some questions.

21

are not physicians, not too many people who are

22

not of the age range of 50 and above, are

23

likely to have had a EKG to know what it means.

24

But I think still, at the same time, I think

25

having the DC, I would agree with my colleague

We need to recognize

I'm just saying, folks, having dealt

But at the same time, if the

In fact, many of them are not MDs.

I

I really do

But at the

Not many people who in fact,

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Mary that we probably should try to do what we

2

can, to either not have a defibrillator there

3

or to spell that out.

4

going to stimulate some questions about what it

5

means.

6

collector of this series.

7

to the fact that what does it say when you pick

8

up the coin?

9

asked to question what it says, if there's not

But I think it's still

And my bias is also that I'm a
So, I'm very attuned

To what extent am I going to be

10

going to be someone to actually answer the

11

question.

12

for those of us who say, well, you know, yes,

13

it's there, but there's circulate with much,

14

maybe that's not going to be an issue.

15

think that's part of the problem, quite

16

frankly, I think that not enough of our coins

17

are stimulating the questions by the public to

18

ask them, so that we in fact, are answering

19

their questions.

20

was long winded and Lawrence Brown, but I'm

21

probably going to lean in the direction of one

22

and eight.

23

issues that I've raised about the innovator

24

versus the innovation, and I appreciate Donald

25

your point, but I'm going to lean to the other

I know it doesn't circulate.

So please forgive me.

So,

But I

That

Not because they answer all the

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lawyer to say that we're already copacetic with

2

respect to going forward.

3

was going to be my votes, and again, thank you

4

for your patience with this contribution.

5

So, those are going

Now returning to being the chair, are

6

there any additional comments or motions from

7

the members at this time?

8

DR. FULLER:

9

DR. BROWN:

10

Yes.
We have Dr. Fuller?

DR. FULLER:

Yes, this is Harcourt Fuller.

11

Are we not looking at a reverse for this?

12

Okay, okay.

13

Thank you.

DR. BROWN:

Other questions or comments?

14

I'm going to turn now to Joe and Mike.

15

have anything you'd like to share with the

16

committee, regarding the designs for this coin?

17
18
19

MR. COSTELLO:

Do you

This is Mike Costello; I

have no additional comments.
MR. WEINMAN:

Joe, would you just for the

20

record, clarify because of the earlier comments

21

in the introduction, why is 08 not a prohibited

22

bust or head and shoulders portrait, just in

23

case anybody would ask?

24
25

MR. MENNA:

Well, I think that there's a

difference between a bust and a portrait, or
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just part of the bust.

A bust is typically

2

anything from the waist up, going all the way

3

up to maybe the sternum or even just one

4

shoulder.

5

--

You see Rodin's portion in the round

6

DR. BROWN:

Joe, a little louder.

7

MR. MENNA:

This is Joe Menna.

8
9
10
11

Rodin's portraits in the round or -UNKNOWN SPEAKER:

Walkie talkie or

something.
MS. STAFFORD:

So, folks that are joining

12

in might want to mute your speakers.

13

return to our chief engraver.

14

If you see

MR. MENNA:

Oh, I'm sorry.

We'll

So, if you see

15

here, imagine this is the kind of portrait you

16

see of by Despiau or Rodin, 19th century

17

academic portrait that is just a head.

18

is typically shoulders right down to the

19

sternum, or even all the way down to the waist,

20

a monumental bust.

21

Renaissance busts, even some of the ceramic

22

ones that were done further.

23

people are talking from my prospective, I'm

24

going to diverge what Greg asked me to clarify,

25

if you see, but also those are Dr. Lown's

A bust

Think about some of the

So, anyway, the

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hands.

This is a very interesting sculpture in

2

that design in that you are -- the POV is you,

3

you become Dr. Lown.

4

become the physician and yet, and that you're

5

able to double identify that by seeing, you

6

know, the effigy.

7

remember in the 19th century they did

8

silhouette before they had cameras.

9

like the little paper silhouettes.

That's crazy cool.

You

Typically in 19th century,

They do
Even my mom

10

had them down when I was a kid on the

11

boardwalk.

12

identifiable way to determine the individual's

13

character.

14

the same profile, nobody.

15

that I was taught by my mentor.

16

that distinguishes all of us, each of us.

17

that the character of his profile combined with

18

the hands, that's him.

19

him, too.

20

this is a really neat, this is like, this is

21

like the Apollo obverse or reverse rather.

22

know, you're the astronaut in that one.

23

very similar, symbolic.

24

you on it, but I did.

25

A profile is the most readily

No two people on the planet have
It's the one line
The one line
So

And then you become

There's something really kind of --

DR. BROWN:

You

It's

I'm not trying to sell
So, I'm sorry.

This is Lawrence Brown.

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can you share with the committee, would there

2

be any difficulty in having M.D. instead of the

3

D.R.

4

In any of the design?
MR. MENNA:

Absolutely not.

It's that

5

occupies the exact same space, and in this one,

6

in particular, Lown would probably just move to

7

the left a little bit, and there we'd scooch in

8

after his name because you couldn't stack it

9

like this.

But absolutely not, sir.

10

DR. BROWN:

11

MS. STAFFORD:

12

April?
I believe Dean has his hand

raised.

13

DR. BROWN:

Dean?

14

MR. KOTLOWSKI:

Joe, thank you for those

15

comments.

I could hear you.

I was having some

16

trouble hearing some of the other folks.

17

Brown, I think I had a lot of trouble hearing

18

you, and I think in the end you suggested which

19

design you were leaning toward.

20

true, if I didn't get it, could you repeat it,

21

please?
I'd be happy to.

Dr.

If that's

22

DR. BROWN:

This is

23

Lawrence Brown.

24

the fact, that being able to really appreciate

25

that the innovator, correction, that the

My challenges that I had was

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defibrillator understated the innovation, the

2

contributions of the innovator.

3

bit hesitant, but things that focus on

4

defibrillator without, in fact, recognizing the

5

other contributions this physician has had.

6

And I appreciate Donald's point that he's made

7

earlier.

8

lean in that direction if I had to, given the

9

suggestion by the Mint staff regarding design

So, I was a

So, but still, I think that I would

10

one.

11

as well as, in fact, I'm also receptive to

12

design eight, even though I do recognize that

13

nowadays, and as Joe pointed out, that it

14

appears that you may be the doctor's hand, but

15

I'm not sure anyone who sees that coin, even if

16

they're a physician, they're going to actually

17

look at it from that perspective.

18

electrodes are very different now than they

19

were then.

20

comment.

21

adverse to it.

22

of design one and design eight, or even the

23

limitations that I've just articulated.

24

that is helpful Dean.

25

I'd be leaning that with the adjustments

The

So, I just want to make that
But still, I'm not I'm not totally
So, I can lean in the direction

Are there any other questions, or
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clarifications or comments from anyone?

I want

2

to turn back to April, to, in fact, Mr.

Evans,

3

Elizabeth Young, Deputy Olsen or Ms. Lown, is

4

there anything else you would like to add?

5

wanted to pause for a few moments just to make

6

sure.

7

more based on this conversation that you've

8

heard?

9

I

Ms. Lown, do you want to add anything

MS. LOWN:

No, I really appreciate the

10

opportunity to hear people's comments, and

11

again, the family's in support of number eight,

12

because we think it most vividly reflects the,

13

both the man and the invention, the innovation.

14

So, thank you.

15

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

Are there

16

any further discussions by any of the members?

17

Hearing none, the committee will now score the

18

reverse candidate designs for the 2024 American

19

Innovation $1 coin honoring innovations in

20

Maine.

21

front of you a scoresheet, and our members who

22

are participating virtually, you would have

23

received that from Jennifer.

24

thank our liaisons.

25

Lown.

Each of you should have received in

Again, we want to

I want to thank you, Ms.

Thank you and your family.
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appreciate your contribution.

2

take 10 minutes.

3

to tally.

4

minutes.

We're going to

We're going to take 5 minutes

So, we are in adjournment for five

5

(Thereupon, a break was taken,

6

and the proceeding continued as

7

follows:)

8
9

DR. BROWN:
back.

Ladies and gentlemen, we are

I recognize Greg Weinman, counsel to the

10

CCAC, to present the results from the scoring

11

sheets.

12

MR. WEINMAN:

Yes.

Once again, out of a

13

possible score of 33 points, these are the

14

following scores.

15

Obverse 2A received five.

16

four.

17

received 12.

18

7A received 4.

19

8 received 26, making it the high point getter.

20
21

Obverse 3A received

Obverse 3B received 15.

Obverse 5

Obverse 6 received 10.

DR. BROWN:

7B received four.

Thank you, Greg.

Obverse

And obverse

Are there

any motions?

22

MR. TUCKER:

23

DR. BROWN:

24

MR. ARNZEN:

25

Obverse 1 received 14.

This is Dennis Tucker.
Dennis.
Phillip Anson, with Governor

Parson's office Missouri.
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DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

Welcome with us.

2

We thank you for your contribution to this

3

process.

4

turn now to Dennis Tucker.

5

Really appreciate it.

MR. TUCKER:

We're going to

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This

6

is Dennis Tucker.

7

the recommended change of the text to Bernard

8

Lown, M.D. in reverse eight.

9
10
11

I would move that we make

MR. BERNSTEIN:

Art Bernstein would second

that.
DR. BROWN:

There's a motion and a second.

12

Is there any discussion on the motion?

13

none, all those in favor Aye?

14

(Aye)

15

DR. BROWN:

16

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:

17
18

Hearing

Are there any nays?
There is one

abstention.
DR. BROWN:

We have one abstention.

The

19

motion passes.

Are there any other motions?

20

Hearing none, and the votes stand as you have

21

been, as we've heard.

22

reason for any other motions based on that.

23

not then, since we've essentially concluded all

24

the discussion, we are moved to, in fact, thank

25

again Deputy Olsen and Lown for joining us

I don't think there is a

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today, and we concluded this matter, and we are

2

--one second.

3

order of business.

4

We're going to turn to the next

Turning back to you, April, who will

5

present the reverse candidate designs for the

6

2024 American Innovation $1 coin, honoring

7

innovations from the state of Missouri.

8
9

MS. STAFFORD:

Thank you so much, and the

design concept for the state of Missouri, the

10

theme is to honor the innovator, George

11

Washington Carver.

12

A little bit of background.

George Washington Carver was one of the

13

most revered figures in early 20th century

14

American history.

15

Institute in Alabama is considered instrumental

16

in changing southern approaches to agriculture.

17

Born into slavery in Diamond Grove, Missouri,

18

Carver received his early education in

19

Missouri, in Kansas.

20

and in 1897, Booker T. Washington, founder of

21

the Tuskegee Institute, convinced Carver to

22

serve as the school's director of agriculture.

23

At Tuskegee, Carver developed his crop rotation

24

method, which alternated nitrate producing

25

legumes such as peanuts, and peas with cotton

His work at the Tuskegee

He later studied in Iowa,

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which depletes soil of its nutrients.

Carver's

2

methods restored nitrogen to the soil,

3

improving crop yields, and was more cost

4

effective than using commercial fertilizer.

5

Despite difficult growing conditions, cotton

6

was firmly positioned as the primary cash crop

7

in the South.

8

branch of applied chemistry that involves

9

finding industrial uses for agricultural raw

Carver's interest in Chemurgy, a

10

materials, was driven by his desire to identify

11

new uses for non-cotton southern crops.

12

both an agricultural scientist and an inventor,

13

George Washington Carver is famous for

14

developing hundreds of different, different

15

products using sweet potatoes, peanuts, and

16

soybeans, and in 2000, Carver was a charter

17

inductee in the USDA Hall of Heroes, as the

18

father of chemurgy.

19

As

Required inscriptions for these candidate

20

designs are United States of America and

21

Missouri.

22

governor's office with us today, Phillip

23

Arnzen, deputy legislative director.

24

governor's office recently cited a preference

25

for design four, highlighting the agricultural

We have our liaison to the Missouri

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aspect of -- because it highlights the

2

agricultural aspect of Carter's work.

3

Arnzen, would like to say a few words to the

4

committee?

5

MR. ARNZEN:

Mr.

Yeah, glad to be here and

6

it's exciting getting to work on this project.

7

I'm really just wanted to reiterate what you

8

said regarding the Governor's selection for

9

design number four.

It really ties the

10

agricultural focus of George Washington Carver,

11

as well as the agricultural history, and the

12

present focus on agriculture for the state of

13

Missouri.

14

kind of having a having a double benefit of

15

tying you back to his history with the state,

16

and also tying back the state's overall history

17

as well as, you know, it has a, you know,

18

aesthetically pleasing design, and it's nice, I

19

guess nice to look at for lack of a better word

20

there.

21

thing I have to say on the coin.

22

any other questions, let me know.

23

So really, the Governor viewed of as

That's all, you know, that's the only

MS. STAFFORD:

If you have

Thank you so much.

24

will move through the candidate options.

25

start with design one.

And we
We'll

This design features

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imagery commemorating the lively, fertile mind

2

of George Washington Carver in earthen textures

3

cut away to reveal peanuts and sweet potatoes

4

growing into the soil.

5

diligence and scientific inquiry he displayed

6

throughout his remarkable life.

7

inscription George Washington Carver is incused

8

next to the microscope.

9

just a couple of things about this design.

A microscope evokes the

The

Now, I want to say

10

First, the CFA declined to make a formal

11

recommendation.

12

support to this design, but asked that a slight

13

reworking be brought back for their

14

consideration.

15

design out of the portfolio because it is the

16

only one that depicts Carver himself and they

17

felt it was critical to depict this very

18

important black American scientist.

19

thought that the initial execution of how

20

Carver integrated into the other elements was

21

slightly inelegant, and if you extend that

22

concept that they worried, perhaps it could

23

even be seen as disrespectful.

24

a slight differentiation between the man and

25

his imaginings.

However, they gave very strong

They first focused on this

But they

So, they wanted

Of course, when we heard their

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very strong feedback on this point, our team

2

immediately convened and our chief engraver led

3

the way, and worked with the artist to retain

4

the original artist vision, but yet answer the

5

very important ask that the CFA gave us.

6

we have a, uh, a slight update revision for you

7

to see here, if we can go to that.

8

ask Joe, our chief engraver, to speak to this

9

because this is an indication, but really it's

So,

And I'll

10

about how it would then be modeled or sculpted.

11

So, if you don't mind.

12

MR. MENNA:

Sure, so, this is Joe Menna.

13

When listening to the CFA's request, we went to

14

work with the artist to develop a way to have,

15

not have the figure and the ground earth be

16

contiguous, but still the earth, the earth was

17

his life, right?

18

humanity sprung from the earth.

19

did was agriculturally based.

20

one with the Earth.

21

artist's idea.

22

thought it would be really cool of Donald's

23

idea to, and we've done this on medals, but we

24

never did this on a circular, we never did this

25

on coins, slightly incuse the back of his head

The gifts that he gave
Everything he
So, he's kind of

That was kind of the

But under the CFA's request, I

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and back into the, so you have that division.

2

You still have a connection with him to the

3

Earth, and in a way that is very typical of

4

monuments done in say Eastern Europe, Martin

5

Luther King monument, Washington, D.C., where

6

they're coming out of the stone, in this case

7

he's coming out of the earth, but yet he's

8

distinct from the Earth.

9

also carried by the line of the microscope.

That distinction is

10

And the last thing was, and also not to be

11

hypocritical in the talk about busts, and not

12

busts, this whatever, because it is part of a

13

broader sculptural mass, we didn't consider it

14

a bust.

We consider this more of a sculpture,

15

really.

This is a different thing here.

16

never done this on a coin before.

17

to incuse, partially incuse the back of the

18

head into the feet, into the other massive art

19

would be something that I don't think has been

20

done since like 1908.

21

MS. STAFFORD:

This is --

Something like that?

Okay.

And of course, I'll

22

move through the rest of the portfolio.

23

you so much.

24
25

MR. MENNA:
silent type.

We've

Thank

And if I could add, my strong

This is Joe Menna again, but we

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also consult with Mike to make sure it's

2

coinable and feasible.

3

change that were rendered by another set of

4

eyes.

5

MS. STAFFORD:

I would never make any

Okay.

All right.

Moving

6

on to design 3A, and 3B, these designs feature

7

a beaker holding a germinating plant.

8

outer border is inspired by old produce crates

9

of slatted wood and contain the inscription

The

10

George Washington Carver.

Design four

11

represents George Washington Carver's use of

12

the Jessup wagon to educate farmers about

13

beneficial agricultural practices.

14

would travel the countryside, sharing an

15

innovative series of free brochures that

16

included information on crops, cultivation

17

techniques and recipes for nutritious meals.

18

The inscription, "George W. Carver" appears

19

above the wagon.

20

this design would need to spell out Washington

21

instead of just having the initial.

22

five centers George Washington Carver on a

23

banner overlapping two fields of produce.

24

top half is filled with peanuts and peanut

25

plants.

Carver

Please note, if recommended,

Design

The bottom field is filled with
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soybeans, sweet potato vines and sweet potato

2

flowers.

3

symbolizes George Washington Carver's work in

4

science and agricultural.

5

George Washington Carver's promotion of crop

6

rotation as a way of preserving soil, and

7

diversifying the types of crops grown in the

8

rural southern United States.

9

above and peanuts below are within the circular

A test tube fostering a small plant

Design six features

Cotton blossoms

10

arrows labeled with the words crop rotation.

11

The inscription "George Washington Carver"

12

rounds out the design.

13

seven features a design with incused and raised

14

graphic peanuts, including the inscription

15

George W. Carver, suggesting the idea of crop

16

rotation.

17

lower right, represent the development of the

18

peanut in new recipes and industrial

19

production, a process attributed largely to

20

George Washington Carver's innovations.

21

please note we confirmed recently with the

22

State Historical Society of Missouri that

23

George Washington Carver's name was ideally

24

spelled out in full.

25

liaison to the governor's office cannot support

And finally, design

The three organic peanuts at the

And

For that reason, our

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this design, and unfortunately there is really

2

with this concept, it would be difficult, if

3

not impossible, to include the appropriate name

4

involved.

5

candidate designs.

6

And Mr. Chairman, that concludes the

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much, April.

To

7

the committee, are there any technical or legal

8

questions from the committee, about this

9

program or designs for the Illinois 2024

10

American Innovation $1, before we begin our

11

general discussion, I recognize Mike Moran.

12

MR. MORAN:

This is Mike Moran.

Joe,

13

let's look back at change of one.

14

bothered by the curvature of the skull there,

15

it looks a little unnatural?

16

MR. MENNA:

Are you

That's easily remedied.

I

17

would say that the art is definitely work from

18

source material, of which there was plenty, but

19

a lot of the references of Dr. Carver from the

20

profile that are in this (unintelligible).

21

the artist never tried strengthen it.

22

it was (unintelligible).

23

far.

24

line can be adjusted in any way, so that when

25

something that would --

See

I think

I think he went too

We can revisit that very easily.

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MR. MORAN:

It looks, first blush,

2

flattened on the top, because it's made to

3

conform with the horizon there.

4

MR. MENNA:

But it won't be because heads

5

going to sink back.

6

just curve.

7

down.

The head's not going to

The head's actually going to sink

8

MR. MORAN:

I'm talking about the top.

9

MR. MENNA:

I know, but you have to, there

10

was that was the notion of raising the ground,

11

but it makes for some slight coinability

12

things, it makes for a really strange pinch

13

point.

14

he did explore his options.

If the ground is higher than the head,

15

DR. BROWN:

Speak up.

16

MR. MENNA:

He did explore those options.

17

We felt that for both coinability and

18

aesthetics, that this was the most viable

19

version in terms of the flatness of the top

20

right.

21

DR. BROWN:

All right.

22

MR. MENNA:

But again, also, that could be

23

remedied, not right at the top, not right the

24

connection, but as the ground goes further in

25

the back, you can definitely, you can
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definitely play with the amplitude of ups and

2

downs of dirt and stones to make it more active

3

if that was a recommendation that you, that the

4

committee chose to endorse.

5

anything you want.

6

DR. BROWN:

This is Lawrence Brown.

7

correction with my statement.

8

state of Missouri.

9

We could do

It should be the

Any other comments or questions from the

10

committee?

11

technical issues that you'd like to ask?

12

One

A legal, or design issue or

DR. FULLER:

This is Harcourt Fuller.

I

13

suppose I can reserve my comments when I'm --

14

when it's my time to speak.

15

might have some design questions, but I'll,

16

I'll wait my turn.

17

DR. BROWN:

Okay, any other comments from

18

any other committee members?

19

Brown, again.

20

of our consideration.

21

apologies.

22

So, I guess I

This is Lawrence

Then let us begin our discussion
I'm sorry.

My

Dean, please forgive me.

MR. KOTLOWSKI:

Certainly.

The Governor's

23

office objects to number seven, because George

24

Washington Carver's name is not spelled out.

25

also notice that as a difficulty, but the
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governor's preference is for number four and

2

number four is George W period Carver.

3

MS. STAFFORD:

Yes, yes, that's correct,

4

and I believe I noted it would need to be

5

remedied.

6
7
8
9

Yes.

MR. KOTLOWSKI:
missed that.

Okay.

Thank you.

I just

I'm sorry.

DR. BROWN:

Quite alright.

Any other

questions or comments from the committee?

Then

10

let us begin our consideration.

11

I'd like to remind us to please try to keep

12

your comments to five minutes or less, and

13

identify yourself prior to speaking.

14

Additionally, if any members have any questions

15

or comments on any program, please refrain from

16

asking or discussing these until you are

17

recognized at the end of this current

18

discussion, and I promise you that I will ask

19

for those comments later on.

20

of the court reporter and those calling in, I

21

ask that you speak loudly due to the, due to

22

the microphones and state your name when you

23

begin speaking.

24

and begin with Dr. Harcourt Fuller?

25

DR. FULLER:

Once again,

For the benefit

With that then, let's turn to

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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think that every coin that we have the

2

privilege of reviewing is important, but bar

3

none, and so I treat all of them equally.

4

However, I do have to say that for particular

5

coins, they might have a particular importance.

6

We're talking about an African-American

7

scientist, which I think for many people will

8

be very important, because we need more

9

diversity on our money to say it bluntly.

And

10

please forgive me if I -- if I have to be a

11

little bit blunt.

12

the stakeholders, including the governor's

13

office, the designers, and everyone else, I'm a

14

little bit disappointed in this portfolio, and

15

I hope I'm not overstepping my boundaries in

16

saying that, but I think I have to be open and

17

honest as a member of this committee and not

18

always be diplomatic.

19

disappointed because the first of all, I think

20

the design that is chosen should include his

21

image because that will be important to the

22

public.

23

seeing is believing.

24

a lot of people are looking for inspiration.

25

They are looking for people with whom to

With all due respect to all

I'm a little bit

I think we have to remember that
People are looking for --

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identify.

And so, I think his image should be

2

on the coin, and that's why it's difficult for

3

me to consider the other designs, even though I

4

think five and six have merit.

5

would prefer five because his name is in bold,

6

George Washington Carver, whereas in six, when

7

I look at the coin, I immediately see crop

8

rotation because it's in bold, and I would flip

9

that and put his name in bold and not crop

I would, I

10

rotation.

But let me finish my comments by

11

talking about why I said I'm disappointed.

12

When I look at one, if you could go to one,

13

please.

14

artist, but when I look at this, George

15

Washington Carver is turning his back on his

16

inventions.

17

looking through the microscope.

18

it's a prop, and I'm not a designer, but I have

19

an opinion.

20

embracing his inventions, perhaps looking

21

through the microscope and perhaps seeing the

22

sweet potato and the peanuts.

23

kind of looking through the microscope and

24

seeing those underneath the ground or the

25

earth.

Again, and I, I apologize to the

That's how I read it.

He's not

It's as if

I would want to see him facing,

You know, he's

Yeah, it's -- he -- yes, it's, it's, he
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needs to face them, and I'm sorry, this merger,

2

I understand what the artist was trying to do,

3

this merger, this oneness between Carver and

4

the earth, I'm trying to find the best word is

5

-- doesn't work for me.

6

something disturbing and I have to use the word

7

that I'm feeling, there's something disturbing

8

about that.

9

the most promising one.

It just, there's

It doesn't work for me.

This is

I would go back to the

10

drawing board on this one.

11

elements.

12

rearranged.

13

boundaries, but I'm just being open and honest,

14

and doing my duty as a member of this

15

committee.

16

It has all the

They just need to be reimagined and
And I'm sorry if I overstepped my

Thank you.

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much, and before

17

we move on, I think that it's important for us

18

to feel comfortable, to be able to share and to

19

appreciate the diversity, that each of the

20

members provide to this committee.

21

that if we, if we do anything other than that,

22

then we will actually be undermining the roles

23

that we play, and the contributions that we're

24

making on behalf of the public.

25

Mary Lannin.
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MS. LANNIN:

Okay.

I remember lying on my

2

parent's couch when I was probably ten years

3

old.

4

and I picked up a book on George Washington

5

Carver, and I read it cover to cover.

6

thought I'd never heard of him before.

7

thought it was one of the coolest things that

8

anybody could have done, and he had such a

9

fertile mind.

I must have had the measles or something,

I
I

So, unlike my colleague, Dr.

10

Fuller, I look at this and I see him whizzing

11

to the left, like trying to invent something

12

else.

13

the fact that we could probably do this incuse.

14

That hasn't been done since as Joe said like

15

probably 1908.

16

what you perceive might be a very exciting

17

point because of the incuse.

18

saying?

19

much more stuff.

Dynamic, he didn't just

20

settle for this.

He's busy.

21

absolutely my favorite one out of this -- out

22

of this whole group.

23

the other artists some consideration.

24

like the crop rotation because I did like

25

pointed arrows, which I thought was really

He's active.

He's a scientist.

I like

I think that the solution to

You know what I'm

And so, to me, he's on his way to do

That was

But I would like to give

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neat.

2

Operating Sweetgrass right now about the

3

treatment of soil, and going back to Mother

4

Earth, and it's very good.

5

inventiveness of number seven, even though we

6

couldn't get Washington in there.

7

that that was very clever.

8

textural to pick up.

9

DR. BROWN:

10

I'm reading a great book called

I thought

It would be very

So that's it.

Thank you.

MR. VAN ALFEN:

And I also like the

Turn to Peter.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

11

This is Peter, Van Alfen.

I have to admit that

12

I struggled quite a bit with this portfolio.

13

The concepts of crop rotation and chemurgy, I

14

think, are really rather difficult to

15

encapsulate on a small coin, and so like Dr.

16

Fuller, I also think that the innovator in this

17

case really should be portrayed, but I have to

18

say that I'm not really enormously pleased with

19

number one.

20

governor's office's selection is probably one

21

of the more elegant designs in the portfolio,

22

but I also find it really rather impersonal.

23

think it would have been better to have a

24

portrayal of Carver's standing next to the

25

wagon, for example, and again, it really

I think that number four, the

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doesn't necessarily convey the notion of crop

2

rotation or chemurgy.

3

selections in the portfolio, such as number

4

three, you know, from a design prospective I

5

think, you know, is okay, but again just what

6

is being portrayed here might be lost on some

7

of the observers and what the significances is.

8

So, you know, all in all, I have to say I'm

9

really struggling to select a favorite from all

Some of the other

10

of this and again, leaning towards the

11

governor's preference for simplicity, and the

12

fact that it does convey agriculture more

13

successfully in some cases than others, but

14

doesn't really suggest Washington's role in

15

this, and of course, doesn't -- nor or his

16

innovation of crop rotation and chemurgy, and

17

of course, is lacking the portrait of him.

18

the fact, and sort of inconclusive bit of

19

commentary.

20

Thank you.

21
22
23

So,

I'll pass it onto the next person.

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

Let's turn

to Art.
MR. BERNSTEIN:

This is Arthur Bernstein.

24

And Dr.

Fuller, I'd like to thank you, I'd

25

like to acknowledge your remarks and tell you I
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appreciate them.

I, I don't think you stepped

2

outside your bounds, and it is helpful of my

3

consideration.

4

Peter, in that I'm a little baffled by which

5

one I'm going to ultimately support.

6

have the same reaction, Dr. Fuller, that you

7

had to the -- to the design, and I really

8

wanted to see George Washington Carver

9

portrayed, and this is the only design we have

And I feel a little bit like

I didn't

10

in which he appears.

So, no disrespect, but I

11

think I'm going to lean towards number one,

12

because I want to see George Washington Carver.

13

Like Mary, I liked design seven.

14

was clever, but we've got to use the man's real

15

name, and unfortunately, that just doesn't

16

work.

17

remarks.

18

a lot of negative space.

19

real leap to look at the cart, and unless one

20

had April's explanation, and I guess you would

21

on the card, but it's a leap to the innovation

22

that he used the cart to teach about the

23

science, and so I would give some high marks to

24

design six, because that at least makes the

25

innovation clear with the rotation that appears

I thought it

Design four, I wanted to echo Peter's
It is elegant.

It is simple.

It has

But I think it's a

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on the coin.

Thank you.

2

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

Turn to Mike.

3

MR. MORAN:

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

This is

4

Mike Moran.

Of the designs that were presented

5

to us, I would put my votes on number six

6

because I think it's a unique and good

7

representation.

8

rotation.

9

that there is more to this man, just as we have

It's easily understood a crop

However, I agree with Dr. Fuller

10

with the Maine images.

I think one was close,

11

but unlike horseshoes, close doesn't count and

12

it needs to start -- the elements are right;

13

the composition is wrong.

14

I think as he was saying that I remembered one

15

we did the medal on the convoy system, World

16

War Two, and one of the designs had the officer

17

with the binoculars up, and then the artist had

18

taken them within two circles, what he was

19

seeing in the ships convoy.

20

microscope and do something of the same there.

21

In terms of what George Washington Carver was

22

looking at and trying to do.

23

never be able to look at this coin without Dr.

24

Fuller's comment about that he's turned his

25

back on his developments, which was the last

Dr. Fuller hit it.

You can take this

And I'll probably

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thing that they did or would want to do.

2

built on his developments and took them to a

3

higher level.

4

side with the CFA, and ask the Mint designers

5

and go back on this one, given the input, and

6

try again.

7
8
9

He

I really think that we ought to

That's it.

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

Let's turn to Sam

Gill.
MR. GILL:

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

This

10

is Sam Gill.

I agree with Dr. Fuller on number

11

one, and that I'm going to shorten and just say

12

I just couldn't get there with it.

13

only image we have.

14

this coin.

15

our history.

16

here, if anybody wants to see it.

17

on a 50-cent piece, commemorative 50-cent piece

18

with Booker T. Washington.

19

the first one.

20

I was comfortable having seen his image on

21

another coin that I could go to number six.

22

And I like it, I like the arrows because it

23

points to the rotation, and I also, I will tell

24

you, the crops are right with cotton on top and

25

peanuts on the bottom, and that's what offsets

It's the

I would prefer an image on

He did appear of one other image in
In the 1950s, I have it right
He appeared

But his image is

So, you can see it there.

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the other, that's the nutrients.

So, I like

2

number four in the elegant, from the standpoint

3

of being elegant, but it doesn't tell the

4

story.

5

to see the story.

6

Thank you, Chairman.

7

DR. BROWN:

Dr. Brown and I share this, we'd like
So those are my comments.

Thank you so much.

And if you

8

were to pass the coin around so that other

9

members of the committee can see it, for those

10
11

who have not had -MR. SCARINCI:

Dr. Brown, one other thing.

12

One of the reasons for that coin was they were

13

concerned about the spread of communism within

14

the African-American community.

15

that in the inscriptions.

16

honor the man.

17

in this case less.

18

You'll see

We could not just

We had to do something more, or

DR. BROWN:

Mike, I'm glad you said that,

19

and I'll hold my other comments about that

20

little later.

But let's then move on to Robin.

21

MS. SALMON:

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

This

22

is Robin Salmon.

23

me from the beginning that the subject of this

24

innovation is looking in the wrong direction.

25

I felt just like it was wrong and that he

The design number one struck

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needed to be looking into the design.

I

2

understand that some of this is an allusion of

3

all the things that of all the things that are

4

in his mind, but it's, he still needs to be

5

looking into the design and either by flipping

6

the profile, or by moving it over to the right

7

side of the design itself.

8

been said, putting together the plants and the

9

microscope and the materials that he worked

With that having

10

with so successfully, I think are important,

11

and I just don't want the subject of this

12

innovation to be totally lost.

13

couple of other designs that I did like, simply

14

because they're very organic and agricultural

15

and presentation; that would be five.

16

even though it doesn't have the image of George

17

Washington Carver, it does have his name

18

prominent in the center of this particular

19

design, and then all around are the plants that

20

he was so instrumental in bringing to the

21

forefront in the South, and in other parts of

22

the country.

23

is a very nice design.

24

rotation, which was one part of Dr. Carver's

25

innovations.

There were a

Yeah,

And then number six also I think
It does focus on crop

But to me, it's a pleasing

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design.

2

might?

3

have difficulty going with number one for the

4

reasons I stated, and I, for that reason, will

5

probably focus on number five as my choice.

6

Thank you.

7
8
9

Does it honor the man as much as it
Otherwise, I'm not sure.

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

But I have, I

Let's turn now to

Dennis Tucker.
MR. TUCKER:

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

This

10

is Dennis Tucker, and thank you, Dr. Fuller,

11

for saying what you said and expressing those

12

thoughts.

13

for these ideas, and feelings and insights to

14

be shared and discussed.

15

about representation really struck me.

16

daughter's six years old.

17

and half Filipino she will proudly tell you so.

18

Whenever there are coins or medals, that can

19

show kids that there are minorities being

20

successful, contributing to the American

21

experience, I think that those opportunities

22

should be taken.

23

show Professor Carver on this coin.

24

show some representation of him as a portrait,

25

or a bust or however we determine.

I think this is precisely the place

Everything you said
My

She's half American

I agree 100% that we need to

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We need to

If we look

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at number one, I like Joe's solution of

2

delineating his portrait with an incuse line.

3

I think that's a that's an interesting solution

4

that works.

5

saying, Dr. Fuller, about him, you know, we

6

should show Dr. Carver owning his innovations,

7

facing them.

8

reader, of course, and in the Western world, we

9

read left to right.

And I understand what you're

But I'm a writer and a voracious

So, if I were to read this

10

coin, I would read it first as Dr. Carver, then

11

I'd read the microscope, and then I'd read the

12

developments, agricultural developments and the

13

innovations.

14

this design, I'm happy with it.

15

what you're saying about how it, how it's

16

almost as if he's turning his back on his

17

innovations, but reading it, quote/unquote, I

18

read it differently.

19

see the Mint develop another option along the

20

lines that you've discussed.

21

some point one of us will make a motion of

22

sending this back to the design team, just so

23

that we can focus on what we might call the

24

design 1 and design 1A, just because the

25

possibilities are very intriguing, and as

So, I, I think if we stay with
I understand

However, I would like to

So, I imagine at

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somebody said, we have all of the ingredients

2

here.

3

as best they can.

4

wonderful discussion.

5

Thank you.

6
7

DR. BROWN:

So, thank you all for this
Mr. Chair, I'm finished.

Thank you.

Let's turn now to

Dean.

8
9

We just need to kind of make them work

MR. KOTLOWSKI:

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

This is Dean Kotlowski.

April, I want to

10

apologize for missing the comment that you

11

made.

12

this portfolio, and, you know, I've been

13

thinking about it even while you were talking.

14

And that's why I was so distracted.

15

little bit, I'm a little bit oddly emotional

16

about it.

17

superior design, which isn't going to work, is

18

number seven and something I noticed late in

19

the game here.

20

Carver, who's always referred to as George

21

Washington Carver, never George W. Carver.

22

this just doesn't work.

23

about why I like this design so much.

24

a kind of artistry that is, is very delicate,

25

and its messaging is stitched in here like fine

I've spent a lot of time thinking about

And I'm a

The design that I think is just the

I Googled George Washington

So,

Let me talk to you

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This is

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lace.

He had raised and infused peanuts.

So

2

that gives you the crop rotation.

3

the graphic peanuts and I saw the peanuts, but

4

I also saw footprints, and I saw footprints

5

moving upward in an elevated way.

6

the footprints as imprints, something that

7

George Washington Carver left behind in terms

8

of legacy.

9

everything that Dr. Fuller mentioned.

I looked at

I also saw

I agree with a lot of almost
I find

10

myself agreeing with Sam on one point and in

11

particular, and that is I think it would be

12

nice, but it is not necessary to show George

13

Washington Carver's portrait, if we had a

14

really great design that didn't show it, and I

15

think this was a really great design, but it's

16

not working for this reasons I'm talking about,

17

and it is for the reason that Sam was

18

mentioning.

19

featured on two United States stamps issued 50

20

years apart, that have portrait; 1948 and 1998.

21

And you know, what Sam and Dr. Brown were

22

saying about the Carver Washington coin in

23

1954, I think they were issued a little bit

24

earlier is true about anti-communism.

25

it's just a great coin, and it is, it was

George Washington Carver is also

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designed by Isaac Scott Hathaway, who was an

2

African-American sculptor, who also designed

3

the Booker T. Washington commemorative coin

4

which is just a few years earlier.

5

lot of throat clearing, and I think it was

6

important to mention Hathaway in this kind of

7

context.

8

all, and it's not really for the reasons that

9

were stated, although I think that that is true

That's a

I really don't like number one at

10

about looking away.

I don't think that

11

revision quite works.

12

and the motifs, they're kind of, it's very

13

heavy.

14

this is kind of caked on with a trowel, I think

15

that it's messaging.

16

looking away from the inventions, but I saw

17

this as an non-elevated portrait.

18

him in the ground.

19

Martin Luther King Junior monument.

20

thinking of the crazy horse monument, somebody

21

coming out of a mountain, but that's not what I

22

was thinking of here.

23

ground, and I think there are all sorts of

24

connotations there beyond science, that I, you

25

know, and I worry how this will be received.

Here, I think the themes

If one is like fine lace, you know,

I didn't see him as

It's putting

I was thinking of the
I was

I was thinking the

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So, I am not going to go any further, but I

2

have a pretty strong reaction against number

3

one.

4

that we can send this back and get a

5

satisfactory design, I think there would be

6

pressure to improve the design.

7

be very blunt.

8

are in politics.

9

Number four is boring, sorry.

So, what are we left with?

I'm not sure

I'm going to

The governor's office, you guys
You can take bluntness.
So, we're left

10

with number five and number six.

11

number six is clever in the way, I think Mary

12

was talking about the rotation, but I'm

13

probably going to go with number five, for the

14

reasons Robin talked about, that at least you

15

have George Washington Carver's incused name

16

right there, and it's bold, state of Missouri

17

is clear, and it's probably the best that we

18

have.

19

to the artists for number seven.

20

was a very good design.

21
22

I think

But I'm going to say this again, kudos

DR. BROWN:

That really

Thank you.

Thank you.

Now turn to

Donald.

23

MR. SCARINCI:

24

DR. BROWN:

25

MR. SCARINCI:

So --

And you are Donald?
I'm sorry, Donald Scarinci.

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I completely embrace what Harcourt said, and I,

2

you know, and I'm hoping that we're going to be

3

able to pull it off.

4

to make a motion to see a whole new set of

5

designs, and throw this batch of designs into

6

the waste bin.

7

is this is an important topic, and I think none

8

of these designs express it appropriately, and

9

I think, John, it was a great attempt at saving

But I really feel we need

And, and I think, I think this

10

number one, you know, but I just don't think

11

number one does it.

12

if my motion fails and I'm forced to vote on

13

one of these, then I would probably, I, you

14

know, I, you know, and Dean thank you for

15

saying the things you said, because it means I

16

don't have to say those things.

17

You know, but I think seven is a workable

18

solution.

19

could, you could, you could get Washington in

20

there by linking George up and putting

21

Washington, you know, in; it could be done and

22

you know, and that would, and that has the

23

potential of being a design that would be in

24

tandem with other coins in the series, without

25

going to the extent of having to have a

You know, if I'm forced,

But just not as it is.

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So, thank you.

I mean, you

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portrait, right?

If you did have to have a

2

portrait, if there is a strong sentiment of a

3

portrait, I would really like the artist to

4

see, you know, coins like the 2018 Irish of

5

five-pound coin depicting James Joyce, you

6

know, very cleverly, or some of the Eastern

7

bloc coins, country coins which depict

8

portraits in, you know, in more modernistic

9

style and also show what they did and the

10

portrait together in combination.

11

are, there are coins, you know, there are coins

12

if we had to have a portrait on this one.

13

know, there are other ways to do a portrait,

14

that would also be in keeping in, keeping with,

15

you know, the that kind of techy look of the

16

rest of the series and break, but my preference

17

would be to try to communicate without

18

reverting to a portrait, right, and I agree

19

with also what's been said earlier about the,

20

you know, the 1950s commemorative series, and

21

that was a series of coins by the way, produced

22

in multiple years, you know, but it wasn't

23

produced, you know, to honor necessarily to

24

honor the two individuals depicted on the coin.

25

It was produced for some other reasons at the
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So, there

You

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time.

So, I'm going to make a motion to, you

2

know, whether I win or lose, I'm going to make

3

a motion to reject all of the designs, and ask

4

Joe to go back to the drawing board and give us

5

a new set of designs, and maybe we can have a

6

special meeting of the CCAC on Zoom to consider

7

them, so we don't delay, you know, any

8

manufacturing process and time frames that are

9

implicated.

10

DR. BROWN:

Motion has been made.

Is

11

there a second?

12

MR. MORAN:

Second.

13

DR. BROWN:

As the chair has come to

14

appreciate from time to time, I must be able to

15

hear the voices of all the members of the

16

committee, even though sometimes that may be

17

contrary to my voice.

18

come to appreciate that that is indeed the role

19

of the chair.

20

I've got a second by Mike.

21
22
23

But as the chair, I've

So first I've heard the motion.

MR. WEINMAN:

Any discussion in the motion

discussion?
DR. BROWN:

Right, now we're going to take

24

discussion of the motion.

Who would like to

25

offer a discussion for the motion?
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DR. FULLER:

Harcourt Fuller. I don't

2

think we necessarily have to throw out every

3

single design.

4

designs that have merit, but I, I do think we

5

should reconsider this portfolio and

6

specifically number one, but I think there are

7

some, a few others, I would say, you know,

8

five, six, for example, Dean convinced me on

9

seven that it has merit.

I do think there are some

So, even if we reject

10

everything, you know, I feel like, I guess we

11

could bring some of these back if that makes

12

sense.

13
14

MR. WEINMAN:

We can offer a friendly

amendment.

15

DR. FULLER:

16

MR. WEINMAN:

A friendly, okay.
To modify, to say you know

17

don't want to reject all of them, but you just

18

want to --

19

DR. FULLER:

20

MR. WEINMAN:

Add some of them.
And then maker of the motion

21

can either accept or deny your friendly

22

amendment.

23
24
25

DR. FULLER:

All right.

So, I'd like to

make a friendly amendment to amend, to amend -MR. WEINMAN:

To amend rejecting all of

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the designs.

2

DR. FULLER:

3

MR. WEINMAN:

Right.
And instead request

4

additional new designs to be presented to us.

5

And, you know, I accept that amendment.

6

is now a motion on the table.

7

DR. BROWN:

So, any additional comments

8

anyone would like to offer.

9

then take the privilege of the chair.

10
11
12
13
14

That

MR. WEINMAN:

Let me, if I can,

I believe Dean has his hand

up.
DR. BROWN:

I'm sorry.

Dean, please

forgive me.
MR. KOTLOWSKI:

I know something's going a

15

little weird in my Teams here, so hopefully you

16

can hear me.

17

DR. BROWN:

Quite well.

18

MR. KOTLOWSKI:

I guess my question is, I

19

don't want to keep hammering this home, but I

20

want to pursue every avenue and opportunity.

21

Is number seven completely lost?

22

there's nothing that we can do with it, I mean,

23

if we send it back to the artist.

24

don't want to do, you know, design by

25

committee, but I think you can tell I feel very
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I mean that

Again, I

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strongly about this and, yeah.

2

DR. BROWN:

3

MR. WEINMAN:

4

Thank you, Dean.
Now, back to Mike so he can

comment on this.

5

DR. BROWN:

Yes, Mike?

6

MR. COSTELLO:

Yes, as far as number

7

seven, I know everybody's expressed some

8

interest in this one.

9
10

DR. BROWN:

And you are Michael?

MR. COSTELLO:

Mike Costello, I'm sorry.

11

It's Mike Costello.

12

with George W Carver, and fit George Washington

13

Carver on the outside edge here.

14

possibility with this design.

15

MR. MENNA:

We could replace Missouri

So, it is a

And if I could follow up.

16

This is kind of out of my lane.

From an

17

artistic perspective, artistic excellence is

18

primary, but one of the components of artistic

19

excellence, when you're trying to tell an

20

America's story, is to honor all the voices

21

that are part of America's story, and we're

22

working towards that in the future.

23

different conversation.

24

artist taking this task order, Dr. George

25

Washington Carver to me, he was one of the

That's a

But if I, if I was an

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first African-American, he's the only

2

African-America scientist you learn that when

3

you're about when you're little kids.

4

first, he is legendary.

5

he did what he did as artists, to me the

6

message would be he is, he is as much part

7

innovation as what he innovated.

8

how you could not have a representation of him,

9

and what he did because of who he is.

The

And at the time when

I don't see

It's so

10

important who he is.

He's not just another

11

doctor.

12

fought an incredibly uphill battle to what he

13

did.

14

become who he was before he even made the

15

innovations?

16

if you are to consider redesigning, I wouldn't,

17

I would from an artistic perspective, I'm not

18

telling the community what to do, just

19

symbolically incorporating the portrait in some

20

capacity, then we're in portrait, just alluding

21

to his identity is very important I think,

22

because identity cannot be separated from his

23

achievements, and I'm saying that from position

24

of privilege, I don't mean to overstep my

25

bounds.

He's an African-American doctor that

Who knows what he must have gone to

So, that in itself to me, I mean

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DR. BROWN:

Thank you, Joe.

I would like

2

to speak in favor of the motion, of the amended

3

motion.

4

series I'm mindful of that.

5

fact that I'm a collector of a limited amount

6

of series of classic commemorative, and the

7

Washington Carver, Carver Washington one is one

8

of them.

9

behind that, and I think the history behind

Number one, as a collector of the
Number two is the

And I'm too familiar with the history

10

that deserves that this body really think about

11

other designs, that actually demonstrate some

12

portrait of this important American.

13

Fuller, you've only awakened our minds in this

14

table.

15

It's been phenomenal.

16

opportunity to actually say that we're not

17

doing it again because, in fact, trying to

18

compete or stop communism, that was the total

19

reason for that commemorative.

20

that, we want to do it for the reasons that Dr.

21

Fuller articulated, that this, in fact, is a

22

diverse America, a different America.

23

have to represent folks who've done what

24

they've done for all Americans.

25

regard, my comments is in favor of the amended

And Dr.

So, feel free from what you've said.
I think that we have an

We want to say

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motion.

2

comments for or against the motion?

3

Are there any other conversations or

MS. STAFFORD:

May I just add; it's

4

neither for nor against, but I, I want to say

5

if it's if it's allowable, that they're there

6

absolutely, the Mint staff, we all welcome all

7

of these comments, and for folks who are rather

8

new to the committee, we have had vigorous,

9

colorful, sometimes very hard, strong

10

conversations, and what we have proven time and

11

time again is this team collectively have very

12

broad shoulders.

13

like there isn't a reason to be blunt or a need

14

to pull punches.

15

here for.

16

remember being part of the original discussion

17

about the American Women Quarters program, when

18

we first brought that portfolio for that

19

program to this committee, there were designs

20

that only featured the accomplishments of the

21

women, and it was this committee that said, for

22

this program we want to include a convention

23

that requires these women themselves be

24

depicted.

25

recommendation, it was then on a requirement.

So please don't ever feel

This is exactly what we're

I would also just note, if folks

And from that, from that

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And we hear you loud and clear that this

2

portfolio is lacking.

3

committee seem to be communicating that, but we

4

heard similar from the CFA, and we absolutely

5

need that feedback, and we'll double back to

6

you.

7

launched in a different way than the American

8

Women quarters.

9

artists to explore the different ways to

Not only does this

Of course, this program was slightly

We wanted to allow for the

10

communicate, whether about innovator or

11

innovation, and so there wasn't a requirement

12

one way or another about to include people or

13

innovations, one or the other, but perhaps room

14

to consider all of it, which is why we

15

sometimes see a broad spectrum of

16

representation.

17

So, thank you for that.

MR. WEINMAN:

And if may follow up on

18

that, and just Dr.

Fuller, if there's even --

19

and that's the beauty of this committee and our

20

relationship because you give us different

21

perspectives that would, maybe, maybe we get

22

perspectives that we haven't yet entertained or

23

been aware of.

24

from a symbolic perspective, as an artist, is

25

he of the land or bound to the land, in the

So, if there's even a question

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latter connotation there are horrific.

2

anybody has a question, I get it.

3

do -- I'll do better as an (unintelligible) and

4

try and avoid that kind of symbolism in the

5

future, be more careful about it, think about

6

it more clearly.

7

DR. FULLER:

8

brief point, Mr.

9

DR. BROWN:

If

You know, so

And if I may take a final
Chairman?
You certainly may.

10

DR. FULLER:

Just two quick things I want

11

to follow up on.

12

mentioned the land issues; it's critical.

13

know that as a designer or as an artist, we're

14

going to see, we're going to see something one

15

way.

16

because we have different backgrounds.

17

as a writer, I have to say, you know, I might

18

write something, and it might come out in a

19

different way when the public sees it.

20

very happy we are reconsidering this because I

21

think it's very important.

22

again, I want to, I want to make sure that,

23

again, the representative from the governor's

24

office as well as from the artist, again, no

25

disrespect meant, but I just felt like I need

I think and I'm glad you
I

But people see things a different way
And I,

So, I'm

And just finally,

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to, I needed to express my opinions based on

2

several different factors.

3

that to the representatives, to the governor,

4

as well as the artist.

5

Thank you.

6

DR. BROWN:

So please convey

No disrespect meant.

Well said.

Are there any

7

other comments with respect to the motion on

8

the table?

9
10
11
12
13
14

PANEL:

Hearing none, all favor say aye?
Aye.

DR. BROWN:

Any abstentions?

Any nays.

The motion passed unanimously.
MR. SCARINCI:

Let's make a point it's

unanimous.
DR. BROWN:

Are there other further

15

discussions on this matter?

16

if all discussion has concluded, then we are

17

recessed to 1:15.

18

Hearing none and

I would like to thank, in fact, Mr.

19

Arnzen, the representative of the governor's

20

office and everyone else who has participated.

21

Thank you so much.

22

reconvene at 1:15.

Really appreciate it.

We

23

(Thereupon, a break was taken,

24

and the proceeding continued as

25

follows:)
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DR. BROWN:

We are back from lunch.

2

will take a quick roll call.

3

reminder, this hearing is recorded and

4

transcribed.

5

verbally when I call your name, Dean?

I

And as a

Please acknowledge your presence

6

MR. KOTLOWSKI:

7

DR. BROWN:

8

MS. LANNIN:

9

DR. BROWN:

Here present.

Mary Lannin?
Present.
Peter?

10

MR. VAN ALFEN:

Present.

11

DR. BROWN:

12

MR. BERNSTEIN:

13

DR. BROWN:

Mike Moran?

14

MR. MORAN:

Here.

15

DR. BROWN:

Robin Salman?

16

MS. SALMAN:

17

DR. BROWN:

18

MR. TUCKER:

19

DR. BROWN:

20

MR. GILL:

21

DR. BROWN:

22

DR. FULLER:

23

DR. BROWN:

Art?
Present.

Present.
Dennis Tucker?
Present.
Sam Gill?
Present.
Dr. Fuller?
Present.
And I am Dr. Brown.

We have a

24

quorum.

Now let's turn once again to April

25

Stafford, who will present for consideration
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the obverse and reverse candidate designs, for

2

the Congressional Gold Medal to the women known

3

as "Rosie the Riveter".

4

MS. STAFFORD:

Thank you.

And some

5

background about this program.

It is Public

6

Law 116-195 that awards a Congressional Gold

7

Medal collectively to the women in the United

8

States, who joined the workforce during World

9

War II, providing the aircraft, vehicles,

10

weaponry, ammunition, and other material to win

11

the war who were referred to as, quote, "Rosie

12

the Riveter", unquote, in recognition of their

13

contributions to the United States and the

14

inspiration they have provided to ensuing

15

generations.

16

includes any woman who held employment, or

17

volunteered in support of the war efforts

18

during World War II.

19

workers led to active recruitment by the U.S.

20

government for war industry jobs.

21

beginning in 1942, white middle-class women

22

were recruited, followed by minority men and

23

finally, minority women.

24

and minorities into the workforce was initially

25

met with resistance.

The term "Rosie the Riveter"

A shortage of white male

Initially,

Integration of women

However, these new

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opportunities nudged the door open for equal

2

rights, and profoundly impacted both the civil

3

rights movement and the women's movement in the

4

decades to follow.

5

minimum of six million and potentially as many

6

as 16 million women entered the workforce.

7

Homefront workers faced many challenges, some

8

of which would lead to significant change in

9

the nation.

During World War II, a

Working conditions were difficult

10

and dangerous.

Between the bombing of Pearl

11

Harbor in December 1941 and the D-Day invasion

12

of Europe in June 1944, there were more home

13

front industrial casualties than military

14

casualties.

15

workplace safety and regulations, as well as

16

better access to affordable health care.

17

Childcare was also a concern for many working

18

women, as mothers comprised a significant

19

portion of the workforce, and this led to the

20

establishment of child development centers, and

21

the professional field of early child

22

development.

23

filled industrial jobs like fastening rivets on

24

aircraft and welding.

25

ammunition, and other war supplies that powered

This would lead to improved

These working wartime women

They built the armor,

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the U.S. military to victory in Europe and

2

Asia.

3

machines and other heavy tools that most women

4

had never even heard of before the war.

5

the country, women stepped up and stepped into

6

work many jobs too numerous to list, that were

7

vacated by the men who were serving our country

8

overseas.

9

effort, but also kept homes and farms running

They operated heavy cranes, milling

Across

They not only supplied the war

10

during the war years as well.

11

program, we are very fortunate to have a number

12

of liaisons with us.

13

former "Rosie the Riveter" herself, Lori Gould,

14

daughter of Phyllis Gould, another former

15

"Rosie the Riveter", and Sarah Pritchard,

16

executive director with the "Rosie the Riveter"

17

Trust.

18

For this

They are Mae Krier, a

Because we have a number of liaisons,

19

there are a number of preferred designs that

20

have been identified.

21

them now, before asking our liaisons if they

22

would like to make any comment.

23

preferences of our liaisons are obverse, one.

24

Okay, I'll go ahead and list them and then

25

we'll throw to our liaisons.

I will go ahead and list

Amongst the

Okay, we'll just

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pause for a second if that's all right.

2

calling up the document now.

3

We're

All right.

So, the multiple obverse press preferences

4

include obverse one.

Thank you.

Obverse one,

5

obverse five, and obverse eight, which includes

6

8A and 8B, and there is a single preference for

7

a reverse design, and that is reverse one.

8

CFA recommended obverse 1A, which is a version

9

of one of our liaisons preferences, and they

The

10

further requested that the design be slightly

11

revised to remove the hairnet from one of the

12

figures and they also recommended reverse one,

13

and we'll stop at those designs as we move

14

through and reinforce those preferences.

15

for now, we'd like to call upon our liaisons to

16

see if they have anything that they'd like to

17

share.

18

share some comments first?

19

MS.

But

Can I ask Lori Gould, would you like to

GOULD:

Yeah, hi, I'm Lori Gould,

20

Phyllis Gould's daughter, and I have her great

21

granddaughter sitting here with me as well.

22

as far as just a short history of my mother,

23

she was one of the original six hired in the

24

shipyards in Richmond, and this has been her

25

project for decades to see this happen.
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Unfortunately, she passed away last year and

2

won't see the finished medal, but she was, had

3

lots of notes and drawings on what her vision

4

of this metal would look like.

5

quite the journey.

6

face of the coin or medal I liked the RO3, and

7

the one that you said would need to change the

8

hairnet.

9

that it should represent the women, the faces

So, it's been

The one that I, for the

I think that on the face of the coin,

10

of the women that we're honoring, and then I

11

feel like the reverse of the medal should tell

12

their story, tell what they did.

13

the reverse, I really like the RO3.

14

that it does tell that story, the welders.

15

don't even know what it's called, but I grant,

16

my niece does, I think that needs to be changed

17

a little bit.

18

me, but I like the design and I really like the

19

artist of the face of the coin that's up on the

20

screen right there.

21

of information you need.

22

So, as far as
I think
I

It doesn't look quite right to

MS. STAFFORD:

So, I don't know what kind

Well, actually, Lori, if

23

it's okay, and this is Did Stafford.

24

you to repeat the designs that you identified

25

as preferences, and just for your awareness we
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have at present entered into record, that the

2

collective preferences for the obverse included

3

designs number one, five and the series of

4

eight, 8A, 8, 8A and did you say there was an

5

obverse three or did I mishear?

6

MS. GOULD:

Yeah, so the 05 for the front,

7

and then I looked through a lot of completed

8

metals and coins, and just looking at those and

9

how they looked finished, I really like the RO3

10

with the recessed areas, and it just seems like

11

it would be absolutely beautiful finished.

12

It's hard to see on line to sort of visualize

13

it, but --

14

MS. STAFFORD:

Okay, so just for the

15

committee's awareness, of our liaison is

16

introducing it appears reverse three as well

17

and we had reverse one previously stipulated as

18

a as a collective preference.

19

Lori.

20

Sarah, would you like to say a few words?

21

So, thank you,

I appreciate you circling back to that.

MS. PRITCHARD:

Hi.

Good morning,

22

everyone.

I really appreciate having worked

23

and being part of this committee, and so I just

24

want to thank you all.

25

behalf of Mae Krier, Rosie Mae Krier, who I

And I do want to say on

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believe is not on this call today because of

2

technical barriers, that she just is also very,

3

very grateful that this is happening, and very

4

excited.

5

speaking on behalf of Mae Krier, part of what I

6

think is very important is the lettering that

7

says honoring "Rosie the Riveter", all women of

8

many races who came together to carry our

9

nation during World War II.

And so, I think that my words and I'm

And there's a

10

couple of different designs with this on it.

11

And so, the ones that are, that are stronger

12

it's not this one shown, but and this design is

13

great.

14

side of the coin, is to have the women

15

representing the different ethnicities.

16

this is a strong one.

17

others.

18

can I talk about the reverse side?

And I think what's important on one

So,

And there's a couple

I'll leave that to the group, and then

19

MS. STAFFORD:

20

MS. PRITCHARD:

Sure, please.
Okay.

So, on the reverse

21

side, I think one side of the coin it's to have

22

the women of the different ethnicities, and I

23

think this one, the one, yes sorry.

24

computers switching around, not just one again,

25

but on the reverse side, what I see is that
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there's a lot of different choices, but there's

2

only a few of them that show one woman.

3

I'm going to advocate that the reverse side has

4

the one woman with the different, you know, the

5

different industries that they were in.

6

There's this design here, and then there's,

7

also, this we're seeing up on the screen.

8

then there's also another one of a what looks

9

like an African-American woman that's in the

And

And

10

position, much like I don't know if you knew,

11

but there was a very famous artist that on the

12

cover of a magazine, someone help me here, they

13

kind of created this "Rosie the Riveter" that

14

was different than the Westinghouse, this one

15

exactly.

16

come away with request one, is that there is

17

this writing honoring all women that came

18

together, and two is that one side shows the

19

diversity of the women that came, and then the

20

second sign does show a woman with her face,

21

because there's a number of them that are just

22

tools.

23

wearing welding and protective gear.

24

doesn't show -- am I making myself pretty

25

clear?

So, my yeah, I think I'm going to

There's a number of them that they're

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MS. STAFFORD:

I think so, yes, and we'll

2

have an opportunity as we move through the

3

portfolio for the members to ask questions.

4

And you're also welcome to insert commentary as

5

well when the discussion ensues absolutely.

6
7
8
9

MS. PRITCHARD:

Great.

Thank you so very

much.
MS. STAFFORD:

Thank you.

So

unfortunately, as Sarah indicated, we don't

10

appear to have Mae with us.

So, with that,

11

we'll move through the portfolio, we'll

12

highlight the preferences.

13

preferences that we were aware of coming into

14

this meeting offers obverse one you see here,

15

obverse five, and the series of obverse eight

16

includes eight, 8A and 8B and as far as

17

reverses, well, look, we'll go ahead.

18

on to the obverses.

19

one and 1A.

20

five Rosie's to depict the diversity of women

21

in the war effort.

22

variety of professions women stepped into

23

during World War Two.

24

inscription "Rosie the Riveter", 1942 and 1945.

25

While Design 1A includes the inscription

So first of all,

We'll go

Let's start with obvious

These designs feature profiles of

They represent the wide

Design one includes the

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honoring "Rosie the Riveter".

All women of

2

many races who came together to carry our

3

nation during World War II.

4

you've heard obverse on was amongst the

5

preferences of our liaisons.

6

recommended 1A, which is a version of obverse

7

one because they felt the inscription was

8

critical for the obverse.

9

image that the CFA recommended the hairnet on

I should note

The CFA

So, and this is the

10

one of the individuals being removed.

Moving

11

on to obverse two, this design features

12

profiles of five Rosie's to represent the

13

diversity of women in the war effort.

14

wear the signature polka dot bandanas.

15

design also features a wrench at the bottom of

16

the design, representing the work of the

17

Rosie's, and the inscription "Rosie the

18

Riveter". Obverse three depicts five Rosie's

19

representing the diversity of women in the war

20

effort, each wearing a signature polka dotted

21

bandana.

22

a rivet gun.

23

border of rivets, and this is a design, I

24

believe that Lorie just indicated was amongst

25

her preferences most appropriate.

They all
This

One holds a wrench, and another holds
The design is surrounded by a

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correct, Rosie?

I'm sorry, Lori, or was it the

2

reverse three you're talking about?

3

MS. GOLD:

It was reverse three.

4

MS. STAFFORD:
Obverse five.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank

5

you.

We'll move to first

6

obverse four, depicts five Rosie's to represent

7

again all of the women in the war effort,

8

wearing their signature work attire and

9

standing in the way, in a way that soldiers

10

might stand at attention.

One Rosie carries a

11

wrench held in a similar manner to a soldier's

12

rifle.

13

background.

14

Riveter", and here is obverse five.

15

this is the obverse five that our liaisons

16

identified as a preference.

17

Rosie's to represent the diversity of women in

18

the war effort.

19

and another is prepared to weld.

20

inscription is honoring "Rosie the Riveter".

21

And obverse six depicts five women to represent

22

the diversity in the war effort.

23

are encased in here representing that it was

24

the Rosie's powering American industry during

25

World War Two.

An American flag bellows in the
The inscription is "Rosie the
Again,

It depicts five

One Rosie holds a rivet gun,
The

The portraits

The inscription "We Did It

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Together" references the iconic "We Can Do It"

2

slogan and signals a mission accomplished.

3

additional inscriptions are "Rosie the Riveter"

4

"Act of Congress" and "2020".

5

depicts five Rosie's to represent the diversity

6

in the war effort, all wearing their work

7

attire with rivets along the border.

8

inscriptions are "Rosie the Riveter", an "Act

9

of Congress", "2020".

The

Obverse seven

The

Next we have a series of

10

obverses.

Obverse 8, 8A and 8B, depict five

11

Rosie's to represent he diversity of women in

12

the war effort.

13

with rivet guns, welding tools, drills,

14

wrenches, and clocking in four work.

15

designs also feature a riveted surface with an

16

inscription that reads, "We went to work when

17

the world needed us the most."

18

seen here and 8A, and then finally on 8B, you

19

see the inscription simply "We did it."

20

those designs are amongst the liaisons

21

preferences.

22

again to represent the diversity of women in

23

the war effort.

24

unified phalanx.

25

echo the configuration of the cockpit, and the

The designs feature Rosie's

The

On designs 8

Again,

Obverse nine depicts five Rosie's

Standing in the formation of a
Their depiction and placement

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engines of the silhouette of the 17-bomber

2

flying as a result of the Rosie's efforts.

3

inscriptions are "Rosie the Riveter", "1942"

4

and "1945".

5

here, we'll mention the preferences.

6

reverse one, which was a collective preference

7

of our liaisons, as well as the recommendation

8

of the CFA.

9

it, reverse three was just identified by one of

Moving on to the reverses.

The

And

We have

And I'll also note when I get to

10

our liaisons as well.

11

this design.

12

a wrench, casually resting on her shoulder and

13

a rivet in her other hand.

14

M4 tank traveled behind her and a B-17 bomber

15

flies above, representing the variety of

16

equipment built by the Rosie's.

17

rivets frames the design with windows featuring

18

the inscriptions "Act of Congress 2020" and

19

"1942 to 1945".

20

liaisons.

21

there was a suggestion made to consider

22

switching out the phrase act of Congress with

23

the inscription "Rosie the Riveter".

24

Moving on to obverses 2 and 2A.

25

So, we'll start with

Reverse one features a Rosie with

A Liberty Ship and

A ring of

Again, preference of our

The CFA's recommendation.

The CFA,

These

designs depict a Rosie with her wrench, and a
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rivet gun looking towards a B-17 bomber, a

2

liberty ship, an import tank, and a Jeep with a

3

group of soldiers representing the wide variety

4

of project she's helped accomplish.

5

inscriptions are "Honoring the women of many

6

races coming together to save our country

7

during World War II", and "1942 to 1945".

8

Obverse three depicts three Rosie's at work.

9

I'm sorry these all are reverses.

The

Reverse

10

three depicts three Rosie's at work.

One welds

11

the circular frame around the design, and one

12

aims her rivet gun at the silhouette of a B-17

13

bomber, while one wields a wrench near the

14

silhouette of a liberty ship, as if she's just

15

tightened enough.

16

The inscriptions are "Honoring the women who

17

helped win World War Two", and "Act of Congress

18

2020".

19

of our liaisons has identified as a preference.

20

Obverses four and Reverses excuse me, 4 and 4A

21

depict a "Rosie the Riveter" name patch on a

22

border of rivets.

23

the Riveter", "1942, 1945" and "Act of Congress

24

2020".

25

II star stencil, 4A also features an adjustable

Rivets encircle the design.

Again, this is the new design that one

The inscriptions are "Rosie

Design four also features a World War

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wrench and bolt.

Reverse 5 features

2

silhouettes of a B-17 bomber, a liberty ship,

3

and an import tank against the background of

4

sheet metal, that has been riveted together

5

with two wrenches atop.

6

inscriptions are "Women Working Together for

7

Victory", "1942", and "1945".

8

features a Liberty Ship and a B-17 bomber above

9

a pair of gloves positioned in a V for victory.

The addition

Reverse six

10

An adjustable wrench and a rivet gun represent

11

the variety of manufacturing tools used by the

12

Rosie's.

13

of Congress 2020" and "World War II".

14

seven depicts a pair of gloves and an

15

adjustable wrench, with silhouettes of ships

16

and planes in the background.

17

include "Act of Congress 2020", "Made in USA"

18

and "Victory World War II".

19

features the classic polka dot "Rosie the

20

Riveter" headscarf as a schematic blueprint

21

against a backdrop of riveted panels.

22

nine features an upraised arm clutching a

23

wrench, with a B-17 bomber and liberty ship in

24

the background with a border of riveted panels.

25

The inscriptions are "World War II", and "Women

Additional inscriptions include "Act
Reverse

Inscriptions

Reverse eight

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of many races came together to save our

2

country".

3

Rosie's lunchbox, bandana, and wrench against

4

the backdrop of a waving American flag.

5

inscriptions are "1942 to 1945", and "All women

6

of many races who came together to save our

7

country during World War II".

8

the candidate designs.

9

Finally, reverse ten depicts a

DR. BROWN:

The

That concludes

Thank you so much.

Now to the

10

members.

11

questions from the committee about this

12

program, or these designs for the Congressional

13

Gold Medal, for the women known as "Rosie the

14

Riveter"?

15
16

Are there any technical or legal

MR. VAN ALFEN:
Van Alfen.

Dr. Brown, this is Peter

I do have an observation if I may?

17

DR. BROWN:

Please proceed.

18

MR. VAN ALFEN:

On reverses one, and

19

reverses five, the B-17 depicted is a C or a D

20

model, and those were out of production long

21

before the war started.

22

one of these two reverses is selected, I would

23

suggest that we make a motion to have the B-17

24

depicted, to have either an E, F or G model

25

that were in production during the time of the

If this reverse, if

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Rosie's would have been building B-17s.

And

2

the B-17 as depicted on the Reverses two and

3

nine G models, which would be correct for the

4

period that again C or D model that's depicted

5

on a reverse one and five, I would suggest the

6

change to later models the Rosie's would have

7

built.

Thank you.

8

DR. BROWN:

9

MS. LANNIN:

Thank you, Mary?
This is Mary Lannin.

I have

10

a question.

11

age restriction to be a "Rosie the Riveter"?

12

Could you be too young or too old?

13
14
15

Does anybody know if there was an

MS. STAFFORD:

That might be a, Sarah, is

that a question you could answer?
MS. PRITCHARD:

Yeah, it is.

The answer

16

is no.

17

but we do know that they, to work in the

18

different companies, that it was to be 18 years

19

old, and we know that at a number of Rosie's

20

including some of our Rosie ambassadors, they,

21

they just, they lied and they came in at 16, 17

22

years old.

23

know, you can say 18 and above.

24
25

You could not be too young or too old,

But I think for the majority, you

MS. LANNIN:

How far is the above, I mean

could you be and working as Rosie?
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MS. PRITCHARD:

I mean that is, it's a

2

very overarching definition.

It's any woman,

3

and actually, it's not just for women that you

4

can call the "Rosie the Riveter", but it's

5

anyone that came to the home front and worked.

6

And it could be in an office.

7

been, you know, growing vegetables.

8

be collecting elastic and metal, and it could

9

be in the factory.

It could have
It could

So, it's a very, very loose

10

definition.

But, you know, if you were able

11

bodied, then you were considered a "Rosie the

12

Riveter" going into the factories.

13

know, what we do see is there was a lot of

14

young women; we'll say that.

15

MS. LANNIN:

16

DR. BROWN:

17

DR. FULLER:

Thank you.
Dr. Fuller?
This is Harcourt Fuller, and

18

sorry if I missed this.

19

woman known as Rosie?

20

Rosie?

21

MS. PRITCHARD:

22

DR. FULLER:

23
24
25

And, you

Was there actually a
Was there an actual

No.

I understand that the term is

a generic term?
MS. PRITCHARD:

No.

Yeah, and this is

Sarah again from "Rosie the Riveter" Trust.
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There was, there was not, there was not an

2

actual person named "Rosie the Riveter", but

3

there was a song that came out and was very

4

popular during that time called "Rosie the

5

Riveter", and that song was actually later, it

6

wasn't until decades later that that song

7

connected to the Westinghouse posters.

8

don't have an image of the, you know, the

9

iconic "Rosie the Riveter", but I think you all

We

10

know what I'm talking about, that iconic

11

Westinghouse poster, and the song kind of came

12

together, but it wasn't until decades after the

13

war.

14

Westinghouse poster and the woman that's

15

flexing her muscles and the song, and we call

16

her "Rosie the Riveter".

17

And now today we look at that

DR. FULLER:

And if I may follow up on

18

that.

I think that's very important for the

19

designs, because if there were a specific woman

20

identified as Rosie, I think at least for me,

21

that would help me decide if on the obverse I

22

would want all the women, and then on the

23

reverse, just one woman, because she was

24

identified as Rosie.

25

you correctly, that's not necessarily the case,

So since, if I understand

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although there might be this association with

2

this poster in the song, you know, it clarifies

3

some things.

So, thank you for that.

4

DR. BROWN:

This is Dr. Brown.

5

MS. PRICHARD:

6

DR. BROWN:

Correct, right.

I'm sorry.

This is Dr. Brown.

7

I have a follow up question to that.

8

ever consider, and I'm just asking, matter of

9

fact requiring that there were Rosies the

10

Riveters?

11

Fuller raised?

12
13

Did you

Yes, given the comments that Dr.
Was it ever a consideration?

MS. PRITCHARD:

I'm sorry, did you say

considered Rosies plural, Rosies the Riveter?

14

DR. BROWN:

Yes.

15

MS. PRITCHARD:

I mean I think that that's

16

you know, that's a possibility.

17

just not what we find culturally, how we, how

18

we call that.

19

you know historical relevance, and also

20

cultural relevance and just mainstream society.

21

We tend to say "Rosie the Riveters" or "Rosie

22

the Riveter".

23

But that's

So, this is something that is,

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

Any the other

24

question from the members of the committee?

25

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MR. KOTLOWSKI:

I just wanted to jump in

2

with something.

This is Dean Kotlowski, and

3

Ms. Pritchard, you can come in and what I'm

4

about to say, but just to kind of reinforce

5

your point and about the song.

6

song and the diversity come together

7

beautifully in a 1980 documentary called The

8

Life and Times of "Rosie the Riveter", which is

9

just a terrific film.

You know the

And if I remember

10

correctly, there's no narrator in the film

11

which was kind of common for documentaries at

12

the time.

13

interviews and the footage.

14

worth taking a look at.

It just moves seamlessly from the

15

DR. BROWN:

16

MS. PRITCHARD:

It is definitely

Thank you so much.
Thank you, but I don't

17

know that film.

I'll look it up.

18

DR. BROWN:

19

Lawrence Brown.

20

comment that you make, we'll take that into

21

consideration later in the conversation, to see

22

if it's even necessary to do so based on the

23

design and the discussion later on.

24

begin our consideration.

25

remind members again to please try to keep your

Okay, and let me just, this is
Just to say that, Peter, your

So let us

I would like to

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comments to five minutes or less, and identify

2

yourself prior to speaking.

3

any members have questions or comments about

4

the program, let's in fact hold those back

5

until we're at the end of this discussion

6

period.

7

comments or questions later on.

8

benefit of the court reporter and those calling

9

in, I ask that you speak loudly due to the

Additionally, if

And I certainly will ask for those
For the

10

microphone, directly on the microphones, and

11

state your name before you begin speaking.

12

let's begin with Mike Moran.

13

MR. MORAN:

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

So,

Let's

14

start looking at obverse one and 1A1.

I

15

originally liked that.

16

use of space.

17

pleasing.

18

ethically correct, but then as I looked at it,

19

and looked through the rest of the portfolio, I

20

realized there was one thing that didn't jive

21

to me.

22

headed down to the canteen for the Saturday

23

Night Dance at the USO.

24

the thing that struck me, the casualties, the

25

industrial accidents that they suffered that I

I thought it was good

I like the images.

They're very

They are very pleasing, and they're

Most of these girls look like they're

It does not convey,

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never thought about before I heard those

2

statistics, and I think as a result of that,

3

there are other images of "Rosie the Riveter"

4

here that are more appealing to me.

5

specifically, I liked it hasn't been mentioned

6

by anybody R7.

7

seven.

8

photographer, or the light photographer was on

9

the production line.

Let's go by R7, R07.

And

Obverse

It looks like to me like the lift

Here, I want to get five

10

young girls right here.

Come on over here.

11

Let me get your picture for the magazine.

12

me, it's got a gritty look.

13

then and there on the production line look to

14

me.

15

faces, and it just looks like I would want,

16

would have expected to see them come off the

17

production line.

18

matter of fact, here we are.

19

job.

20

obverse.

21

specifically to R5.

22

On B-17s.

23

or F.

24

would have either.

25

I like the fact that the weapons of war are in

To

It's got a right

The girls have good expressions on their

Nothing fancy about it.

Just

We're doing a

So that's where I am in terms of the
Let's go to the reverse, and let's go
Peter, my hats off to you.

I wouldn't have known A, B, C, D, E,

I don't think any of the rest of us
But I do like this design.

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silhouette.

2

riveted iron plates, and I think to me that

3

makes, I'm kind of assuming that if it isn't

4

silhouette, it will be incused but even so, I

5

think that makes a very compelling artistic

6

reverse of a subject that's difficult to make

7

artistic, and as a result, that's where my

8

recommendations are.

9

DR. BROWN:

10
11

What's not in silhouette are the

Dr. Brown, I'm done.

Thank you, sir.

Turn to Mary

Lannin?
MS. LANNIN:

I just knew you were going to

12

do that.

This is Mary Lannin, and let's start

13

with the obverses first.

14

of, one of the preferences was 1 and 1A, and I

15

have to say that there's a certain charm to 1

16

that I liked because it was clean looking.

17

which is a preference of the CFA, I think we've

18

all heard the expression word salad.

19

too much stuff in there.

20

simplified by saying women who came together to

21

carry our nation during World War II.

22

obvious that there are different races.

23

far less wordy that way.

24

of like editor hat on that one.

25

reason I ask the question about the age.

So, the preference

1A

There's

It could be

It's
It's

So that was my sort

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a look at obverse four, and we have in this

2

one, though I like the fact that they were

3

lined up like soldiers, as April said, but

4

there's a definite, there's a definite range of

5

ages here that showed different aged women

6

being able to do different things.

7

the woman that second from the left is not

8

anywhere near the age of the woman who's

9

directly on the left.

Certainly,

And so, I think that

10

that shows not only races, but a broad age

11

range of people who helped.

12

very much.

13

and I think alike.

14

completely appealing to me as amended by Peter

15

van Alfen.

16

votes toward number five.

17

comment, on number, on reverse number one.

18

She's holding a wrench on her shoulder, which

19

is meant to be like a hexagonal wrench, I

20

think.

21

And I don't think that's the right tool for the

22

job.

23

out on this, so what is, so in case this one is

24

chosen, somebody has to match the tool and the

25

rivet correctly, and that's all I have to say.

So, I like that

Now, to get to the reverses, Mike
I found number five to be

And so, I would definitely put my
I wanted to make a

And she's holding a rivet that's round.

You know, and we're going to get called

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2

DR. BROWN:

Let's turn

now to Donald.

3
4

Thank you so much.

MR. SCARINCI:

You know, I jumped out of

my skin when I see five people on --

5

DR. BROWN:

And you are?

6

MR. SCARINCI:

Donald Scarinci, and, you

7

know, I jump out of my skin when I see five,

8

five people on any metallic object.

9

carry it because it's this is a this is a

You could

10

medal, it's a three-inch thing.

So, it could

11

work.

12

that you know, that they particular look like

13

they're going to a dance.

14

be wearing, you know, those scarves, and the

15

drawing, the drawing does make it -- I guess

16

the drawing does give you that impression, but

17

the drawing would not be the medal.

18

wouldn't discount, I wouldn't discount this

19

obverse.

20

too many words.

21

communicate a message, if it's paired, it's

22

really all about how it's paired.

23

paired with reverse five, you know, I, you

24

know, thank you, and really, Peter, you saved

25

the day on that.

You know, I'm not so sure, you know,

I mean, you wouldn't

So, I

I do think 1A, you know, it just has
And, you know, while it does

And if it's

But if it's paired with, I do

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kind of, I do kind of like this the way, the

2

way the Mint will ultimately do it.

3

I think they'll create texture.

4

know, you know, what Joe would have in his mind

5

with this, you know, it could be made to look,

6

you know, like a very contemporary medal if we

7

could, you know, have relief and texture on

8

the, you know, on the riveted panels.

9

know, they could even be a little higher, a

You know,

You know, I

You

10

little lower, you know, and the silhouettes,

11

you know, really is somewhat profound, you

12

know, in terms of, you know, thinking about the

13

casualties of that war.

14

some depth of meaning there.

15

with, if we went with the five reverse, you

16

could, you could go with the obverse that has a

17

lot of words, right?

18

communicate.

19

Congress in there somewhere and you could put

20

it in the reverse.

21

reverse yet, but, so I could live with the one

22

with the words if you pair it with reverse

23

five.

24

going to come down to the pairings, you know,

25

and clearly we're looking at one of the

So, you know, there is
And if we went

And the words then will

You would have to put act of

I'm not sure it's in the

If not, you know, I think this is really

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obverses that, you know, has a lot of people in

2

it and, you know so, you know, a reverse,

3

reverse seven to me, you know does look, I'm

4

sorry obverse seven, I would caution that one.

5

I'm sure legal has vetted that to see there's

6

no, that I mean because it does look like a

7

photograph, and the fear is maybe it is a

8

photograph. Right.

9

like a photograph that, you know, and I would

10

commend the artist whole heatedly if that was

11

not drawn from a photograph and that's that is

12

compelling.

13

it's safe, if legal determines it to be safe.

14

So, you know, I see the merits in that.

15

more, you know, it's more kind of how they

16

would look.

17

But so, I'm kind of open on this.

18

do think, I do think the reverse with the

19

correction on the plane would be will be a nice

20

one.

21

that's the one.

22

You know that interesting, but just not it's

23

not as compelling as the other reverse.

24
25

So, you know, it does look

If it was not drawn, you know, if

That's

I mean, you know, I would think.
You know, I

The other one is supposed to, so yeah,

DR. BROWN:
appreciate that.

The other one is reverse 07.

Thank you so much.

We

Let's turn now to Sam Gill.

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MR. GILL:

Thank you.

I'm Sam Gill.

Thank you, Mr.

2

Chairman.

Just starting from

3

the beginning here obverse one, clearly that

4

would make it very, very, very pretty medal.

5

It's spaced beautifully.

6

well-defined.

7

I think people would enjoy looking at that.

8

think I agree with Mary that 01 obverse 01A is

9

too busy with wording.

The faces are all

They look like real people, and
I

Number six, I liked

10

only from the standpoint that these depicts

11

individuals and after all, at the end of the

12

day, they were all individuals that got

13

together and they all went home to some place,

14

and all had relatives or friends in the service

15

some place, and it and it shows them in these

16

gears.

17

or B, I liked, one little thing here I liked

18

the V for victory, and then the American flag

19

right beneath it.

20

there, that was just kind of nice.

21

reverse side, I liked 03 It still gives a

22

silhouette, but actually it gives, I like the

23

silhouettes very much in this, including, and

24

the way it includes the people.

25

like a very interesting, nice design.

So, I like that.

In number eight, 8A

A little bit of detail

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live with 05, but 03 tells the story for me.

2

That's it.

3
4

Thank you.

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

Let's turn to Dr.

Fuller.

5

DR. FULLER:

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

6

These were all very compelling designs.

There

7

are lots of great designs in here.

8

go to one and 1 and 1A.

9

is the case for me, but I like the, I like the,

If we could

I'm not sure why this

10

the women looking to the right, and not to the

11

left.

12

Maybe Joe can tell me why I think like that.

13

I'm not sure.

14

Joe when I'm done, please.

15

put on my film hat.

16

me.

17

don't think we need to say women from different

18

races because we can clearly see.

19

make that adjustment, but I do like 1A in that

20

sense.

21

and having the women in the gears, because it,

22

when I, when I see that, it tells me okay

23

because I'm thinking about how the public might

24

see it.

25

something to do with mechanics, you know,

I think symbolically means something.

And that's actually a question,
On 1Aa, if I can

Show me not the don't tell

But we see that it's a diverse group.

I like six.

I

So, I would

I really like the gears

Okay, that tells me that it has

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mechanical, something like that, you know?

The

2

one that I really like is nine.

3

something aesthetically pleasing about that, if

4

I may use the word.

5

know, we're going to war.

6

here.

7

And I if I may also, I wanted to ask Joe, if I

8

may as well, is this, is this an identifiable

9

tradition?

There is just

It looks menacing, you
You know, it's we're

You know, we're doing the nation's work.

I'm, I'm referring to the -- what

10

is this style that artistry.

I'm curious to

11

know if it's some artistic tradition, and it

12

has a name or something, but it's really

13

they're holding up the Air Force?

14

very compelling to me.

15

votes.

16

like one because, you know, on the obverse, if

17

we have five women, you can't really focus on

18

any one person.

19

really stop and think that these were

20

individuals.

21

and I also like the rivets and, you know, the

22

texture and also the war machinery, if you will

23

give the background on that.

24

and five because of the silhouettes and, you

25

know, three has the women.

It's just

That'll get most of my

If I may turn to the reverse, I like, I

But in one, in R1 you get to

You can focus on the individual,

I do like three

And so, it's

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showing what they're working on, even though

2

that would depend on what we choose for the

3

obverse.

4
5
6

And, that's it.

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Let's

turn to Robin.
MS. SALMAN:

This is Robin Salman.

On the

7

obverse, there's are so many wonderful designs

8

to choose from.

9

like a variety of them for a variety of

It makes it very difficult.

I

10

reasons, but I've settled on seven as my first

11

choice for the obverse, because it does show

12

the women.

13

it's almost like a photographer came in, and

14

said let me take your picture.

15

pausing.

16

some of the designs was trying to make sure,

17

that all the wording was on one, one side or

18

the other as it needed to be.

19

design does solve that with act of Congress

20

2020, along with the theme "Rosie the Riveter",

21

and then for the reverse, I was drawn to three

22

and five for all of the reasons that and

23

previously stated.

24

at work and their various activities, and it

25

has the phrase honoring the women who helped

I think Mike was the one who said

Momentarily

And another issue is that I had with

So, this, this

Three then shows the women

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win World War II.

If that one who is chosen

2

along with obverse seven, then one side would

3

have to do without act of congress, but the

4

dates 1942, 1945 could be substituted.

5

with number five, I liked it because of the

6

simplicity.

7

and tank, the dates, women working for victory.

8

All of it spoke to me exactly what I think this

9

is all about.

There

The silhouetted plane, and ship

And then the background being

10

the metal plates.

11

getting the point across of how important this

12

work was to the country and the world, in fact,

13

during World War two.

14

three or reverse five, I think would work

15

beautifully.

16

designs.

17

portfolio trying to make a decision, and I

18

think you can tell.

19
20
21

Very simple, but definitely

So, I'm either a reverse

There are many other wonderful

I have a hard time with this

DR. BROWN:

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, turning to Mr.

Tucker?
MR. TUCKER:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This

22

is Dennis Tucker, and Robin, I have to echo

23

your sentiment.

24

to the artists for making our job so difficult.

25

This is a great portfolio, and it's nice to see

April, Megan, Joe, thank you

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so many wonderful designs.

Sometimes we talk

2

about congressional gold medals, and we look at

3

the obverse and reverse, and we talk about the

4

obverse being the verb, the active side and

5

letting the reverse, you know, so the obverse

6

will be where we show action.

7

with movement and doing what they do, and what

8

they did to deserve this honor, and then on the

9

reverse, we show more verbiage, and that's

We show people

10

where we have the noun of the medal contrasted

11

to the verb.

12

Robin mentioned, we need to kind of carefully

13

balance the obverse as the reverses, make sure

14

that we're showing all of the text that we need

15

to show, and not leaving anything out by

16

mismatching designs.

17

on two potential combinations of obverse and

18

reverse.

19

is a little bit wordier than we normally do on

20

an obverse.

21

balanced.

22

and it's just nicely done.

23

especially nicely done on a three-inch format.

24

And so, we would combine obverse 1A with

25

reverse one.

In this case, I think and as

So, I would like to focus

One would be obverse 1A, which yes,

But I think this text is well
It has some contrast in the weights
And this would be

Reverse one, Mary that's an

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interesting observation about the hex wrench

2

versus the rivet, but I think, I don't think

3

that will bother too many people, because if

4

you're in a garage, if you're, if you're

5

picking things up, tools and devices and

6

things, you could conceivably maybe not so much

7

of a production line in a factory where you're,

8

you're regimented in what you're doing, but you

9

would have all of this equipment at your

10

disposal, and plus, there's artistic license to

11

be thought of.

12

MS. SALMON:

Not the right rivet, Dennis.

13

MR. TUCKER:

That distinction there, but I

14

like that combination of obverse 1A and reverse

15

1, and I think that it gets the verbiage in,

16

and it gets the design in, the design elements

17

that tell the story.

18

would be obverse one, which has pretty much the

19

same theme as 1A but less wording.

20

not crowded with as much text, and combine that

21

with the reverse 2 or reverse 2A.

22

I love this illustration.

23

make a wonderful medal, and I like the entirety

24

of this medal, because it has a potential to be

25

a metal that you really spend a lot of time.

The other combination

So, it's

I love the,

I think it would

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You know, you're looking at it and studying,

2

and seeing all of this detail.

3

be my, that would be my recommendation, either

4

obverse 1A and reverse 1, or obverse 1 and

5

reverse 2 or 2A.

6
7
8
9

DR. BROWN:

So that would

Thank you.
Thank you.

We turn now to

Dean.
MR. KOTLOWSKI:
Chairman.

Thank you very much, Mr.

I have to begin by acknowledging

10

the, this is Dean Kotlowski.

I would like to

11

begin by giving the liaisons, and thank you for

12

your comments and in particular, Ms. Gold.

13

glad you keep the memory of your mother alive

14

and her contributions.

15

"Rosie the Riveter".

16

me, as well as an academic, I did a Paul McNutt

17

who was head of what was called the War

18

Manpower Commission in World War II.

19

responsible for recruiting women to the war

20

industry, and he had a transformation that I

21

can't go into now, but that's what they called

22

it back then manpower, not human resources.

23

So, it's interesting.

24

we had a set of designs that were difficult

25

because there, we had trouble finding something

I'm

My grandmother was a
So, this is personal for

That was

I also want to say that

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that appealed to us.

And here so much appeals

2

to me and there's so much to choose from.

3

Thank you for the preferences that you've

4

outlined.

5

up here too much.

6

against some designs to think about.

7

and 1A, I prefer one for the reasons that have

8

been stated.

9

Yes, they're facing left.

I'm not going to try to match things
I'm going to argue for and
Between 1

It's cleaner, it's more simple.
I tried to come up

10

with a historical reason why I liked that, and

11

I decided this privilege is one part of the

12

country over the others.

13

Coast was very important to Seattle, and the

14

airplane Industry, and a lot of Americans moved

15

around during the war and moved all over the

16

country, not just West, but the fact that they

17

were looking west, I think that that is

18

important.

19

have 1942 to 1945, to give us something of a

20

re-periodization of WW II, and how the war

21

meant different things, and it begin

22

differently, some groups in the United States

23

than others.

24

important, 1A it's just too much words.

25

just too busy.

You know, the West

I also think it is very good to

At least in one aspect that's
It's

I would be very happy, or I'd

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be reasonably happy with Mary's choice of

2

number four.

3

Nobody said anything about obverse five yet,

4

and what I see here is strength, determination,

5

unity and working in unison.

6

of peoples, and races and ethnicities has been

7

discussed, but I also see different diversity

8

of occupations with the headgear and the tools.

9

So, I found that very compelling.

I really like number five.

I see diversity

I really

10

don't care very much for number six, but I want

11

to give a shout out to it.

12

some of these earlier gendered cameos and

13

little portraits of women, and the gears are

14

kind of interesting as to how those gender

15

roles were changing.

16

about 8A or 8B.

17

much, maybe some of the other designs, but

18

again, I'd be very happy (unintelligible)

19

reverses.

20

for me.

21

and metaphor here that works very well, and

22

again, this is reverse three.

23

activity.

24

size that we obviously have on a ship, but it

25

doesn't matter.

It reminds me of

Nobody has said very much

I like all of them, not as

I did like three, three stood out
I think there's an element of reality

I like the

I know that those rivets are not the

I mean, it's metaphor, it's

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symbolism, and the activity really was

2

inspiring, and it worked for me, 2 and 2A

3

somebody mentioned a magazine cover for a

4

"Rosie the Riveter", and I think that was, I'm

5

pretty sure that was the Saturday Evening Post.

6

I don't mind this one.

7

one very much at all.

8

reverse number one.

9

only one who thinks this way.

Yeah, I don't mind this
But I really don't like

I think and I may be the
I think it

10

subverts the diversity message of the obverse

11

that we're trying to go for, by focusing on one

12

individual, we could assume she's representing

13

one racial or ethnic group.

14

thing two, that she's about in terms of the

15

image, it's almost about the same size or so,

16

of some of the faces on the other side of the

17

of the medal.

And the other thing is she's

18

very passive.

She's just sort of looking at

19

something.

20

in the background, and it just doesn't really

21

come together for me.

22

go with one, or four or five for the obverse,

23

this is maybe just too much of the face for the

24

reverse.

25

committee for pointing out number five.

And the other

And then we have the end products

And if you're going to

And my final comment is thanks to the

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think that there's real artistry in number five

2

about the end product.

3

talked about the panels and the rivets.

4

maybe if I can do one last comment, this is not

5

something I'm going to advocate, but there was

6

something, it's a little bland, but there was

7

something about number ten that appealed to me,

8

just the American flag and the bandana, and the

9

way that was, the way that came out.

And I think Robin
And

I

10

wouldn't advocate for it, but I just wanted to

11

just give a shout out to the artist.

12

very much.

13
14

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

Thank you

Let's turn now to

Peter.

15

MR. VAN ALFEN:

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

16

This is Peter Van Alfen.

17

I have a rather strong aversion to these sort

18

of facing portraits, coins and medals, probably

19

because of the concern that either the

20

modeling, or the way that life may capture the

21

object could lead to some unintended, grotesque

22

expressions of those face in portraits and the

23

rest.

24

generally will be for profile portraits on

25

coins and medals, which is what I focus

As many of you know,

So, my preference always has been and

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primarily on obverse one, and 1A.

I really

2

have a preference for 1 or 1A simply because I

3

find this a much, much stronger design with a

4

very strong diagonal element, and that diagonal

5

line bisecting between negative space and the

6

more filled space, as well as the simplicity of

7

the inscription there.

8

other that also picture profiles, I don't think

9

are as well balanced or as elegant.

1A and some of the

So, my

10

preference for the obverse is number one.

11

Terms of the reverses, unlike Dean, I really do

12

like reverse one quite a bit.

13

this is actually a really rather strong design,

14

but and I, in fact, do like the focus on this

15

sort of contemplated individual featured here,

16

although like Dean I also have some concerns

17

about how the women are portrayed here might

18

subverts the diversity messaging in the overall

19

project.

20

rivet that she's holding, you know, that could

21

easily be changed to a hex bolt rather than a

22

rivet to address Mary's concerns, and I think

23

is appropriate.

24

like reverse number five as well.

25

this is also a rather strong design, and I do

I think that

In terms of little things like the

Aside from one, I do quite

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like the incused elements of it then quite a

2

bit, as well as the paneling and the rivets and

3

so forth.

4

Thank you very much.

5

DR. BROWN:

6

MR. BERNSTEIN:

So, that's what I have to say.

Thank you.

Turn now to Art?

Hello, this is Art

7

Bernstein, and I want to echo Mary's comments

8

about the wrench and the rivet, but I'm going

9

to take it a step further.

When I first looked

10

at this portfolio, I was focused on "Rosie the

11

Riveter", and then I saw a lot of designs that

12

had wrenches, and I'm thinking that that to me,

13

I found confusing, that if we're focusing on

14

"Rosie the Riveter", the tools should be

15

related to rivets.

16

things literally, and I was rejecting most of

17

the designs that had tools, that were not

18

related to riveting.

19

on the obverse side, I, I like the design

20

seven.

21

mentioned as well.

22

serious, and when you look at what they're

23

wearing, and what they're when you get the idea

24

of what they're holding, you get the idea of

25

what they're doing.

So, I, I tend to take

Now, to be more specific

I think that Mike that was the one you
To me they all look very

The other, some of the

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other designs were more posed portraits, and

2

this looked like they just came off the line.

3

They were sort of dirty, and tired, and they

4

worked hard.

5

I also liked design number 8, 8 and 8A, both of

6

which had a lot of other accouterments related

7

to World War II.

8

win, and I appreciated all the other slogans

9

that went with that design.

And I'm attracted to that design.

The V for Victory and we will

Going to the

10

reverses, I liked reverse one.

What attracted

11

me to that design was the, if we get rid of the

12

wrench problem or the rivet problem, it shows

13

the things that people built.

14

appreciated the rivets around the edge again,

15

focusing on the riveting and in reverse three,

16

we see the women hard at work.

17

Riveter" is hard at work, and I thought it was

18

pretty clever, and I don't think anyone's

19

mentioned this, or maybe April mentioned that,

20

that one of the women is riveting the design on

21

metal itself.

22

very clever element.

23

DR. BROWN:

And I

"Rosie the

And I just thought that was a
Thank you.

Thank you so much.

I too must

24

add my compliments to the artists.

25

phenomenal portfolio, and I applaud the
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comments of my colleagues on the committee.

2

They had great comments, and I must confess, I

3

probably would be happy with any of these,

4

quite frankly.

5

your effort to, in fact, combine, because I

6

think there is some merit to making sure that

7

there is some synchrony between the obverse and

8

the reverse.

9

well, probably throw most of my points on the

And I really applaud, Dennis,

Having said that, I can probably

10

obverse to either 1A or 1, because I think they

11

have benefits.

12

probably need to do some reduction of words

13

there, in order to make that even more

14

readable.

15

probably would lean in the direction of five or

16

three.

17

I agree with Mary, 1A we

With respect to the reverse, I

So, based on that are there, Mary?

MS. LANNIN:

I did, this is Mary Lannin.

18

I just had a question.

I'm looking at number

19

three, which I think is very clever, is it

20

asking a lot for the artist to change, I have a

21

wrench thing I guess.

22

wrench in her hands, it would be really cool if

23

it was actually wrenching into place the last

24

rivet, on the boat, or ship or whatever it's

25

called.

The woman with the

I think because you see somebody
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actually welding, you can imagine, you know,

2

the plane has many, many rivets on the wings,

3

as we've often seen.

4

be to put that rivet into place, with the woman

5

with the wrench in her hand.

6

Joe?

7
8
9
10

MR. MENNA:

But the real effort would

Can that be done,

Sure, the rivets would have to

be made much smaller, same size as the -MS. LANNIN:

No, I didn't mean to have

would be smaller.

11

MR. MENNA:

12

MS. LANNIN:

13

MR. MENNA:

Not rivet I mean the bolts.
Yeah.
Oh, you mean the rivet or the

14

bolts, I'm sorry?

15

bolts, or the riveter with the rivets?

16
17

You mean the wrench with the

MS. LANNIN:
be bigger.

I think that the wrench could

It's just a thought.

18

MR. MENNA:

Absolutely.

19

DR. BROWN:

Donald?

20

MR. SCARINCI:

Just two points I wanted to

21

make for the record.

22

this, I don't want the artist to not think we

23

got it.

24

think it was reverse nine.

25

So, when the artist reads

On number nine, reverse in nine, I

DR. BROWN:

Little louder, Donald.

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MR. SCARINCI:

Obverse nine.

Harcourt

2

raised a question about obverse nine, you know,

3

that is, I think what the artist was trying,

4

was doing is creating, creating a medal that

5

would be very similar in style to medals of the

6

period.

7

an art deco-ishness to it, and, you know, and

8

things like how rewind would have, would have,

9

would have done that you see all over New York

You know, kind of, you know, there's

10

and Miami and Bar Belsky (ph), you know, so I

11

think that's what the artist was going for here

12

was going through a period of, look, you know,

13

just that's was happening.

14

there's a lot of nice designs here.

15

agree, and I think the challenge that we're

16

going to now have, you know, that kind of hit

17

me in beginning is, we need to pair the obverse

18

with the reverse.

19

little challenging here.

20

decide on the obverse, we may want to see how

21

that pairs with the reverse we selected, maybe

22

have a revote or something if it doesn't match,

23

because I'm hearing a lot of, a lot of

24

preferences, and we are, and there is really an

25

opportunity here to convey a message.

There's a lot,
I also

And that's going to be a
So, after we vote and

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either go with an explanation on the obverse or

2

the reverse, but either one of them has to have

3

it.

4

might want to consider the revote to the

5

obverse first, I have no idea, do the obverse

6

first or do both, and then look and see how

7

they match.

So, depending on people's preferences, we

8

DR. BROWN:

9

DR. FULLER:

Dr. Fuller?
Thank you, Harcourt Fuller.

10

To Donald's point, I think if we go with an

11

obverse that has the five women, perhaps a

12

reverse, that either has one woman or no women

13

at all, so that it's not too crowded.

14

would let's say if we went with 1 or 1A, and

15

I'm not saying that that's what I'm going with,

16

but let's just say we went with 1 or 1A on the

17

obverse, then I think probably something like

18

is that five on the reverse?

19

think that would be a great balance.

20

UNKNOWN SPEAKER:

21

DR. BROWN:

So, I

Yeah, because I

Yes, that's exactly.

Ladies and gentlemen, right

22

here on the table, a couple of comments, but

23

before I do that, let me hear from Joe and Mike

24

to see if they have anything they would like to

25

add.
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MR. MENNA:

This is Joe Menna.

I just

2

have four background points, not for advocacy,

3

just for clarification.

4

Michelangelo figure that the one medal's

5

referring to, the woman seated on the chair,

6

that's actually referring to one of the agnuti

7

(ph) from the Sistine ceiling.

8

Rockwell's, Saturday Evening Post cover is

9

Isaiah from the Sistine Chapel ceiling.

Number one, the

Norman

10

They're completely different figures just for

11

your consideration, and a little art history

12

lesson there.

13

the rivet on reverse one, "Rosie the Riveter",

14

as we were, as it was told us, is a name

15

encompassing the entire group., the legions of

16

women and the different orders in which they

17

were called to service, and all the different

18

works that they performed.

19

symbolically holding, I think the artist's

20

intention was if you have the woman holding a

21

wrench, but symbolically looking at that rivet,

22

which is the symbol for the entire statement of

23

"Rosie the Riveter".

24

she's not considering that rivet as literal

25

rivet.

In terms of the woman holding

So, to have a woman

So, she is considering,

She's looking at what they are.
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know, that's the name of them, "Rosie the

2

Riveter".

3

artist intent, and I'm not the artist.

4

terms of the facing the direction, Dr.

5

Harcourt, Dr.

6

Dr. Jane James Fishburne.

7

out on the West Coast in L.A., and he's a

8

renaissance art medal expert.

9

came up the origins of the right and left

That's my understanding of the
In

Fuller mentioned, we just had a
We're in a museum

That question

10

facing, and he pointed to the typical direction

11

of Caesar, the emperor on Roman coins, and the

12

model for the, Mary would know better than me,

13

the genesis of the alpha of the kind of art

14

that we make, particular congressional gold

15

medals, our Renaissance art medal started a

16

piece Anello (ph).

17

the right.

18

(unintelligible) director Rider's medal, he

19

wanted his left featured.

20

best side, but he was afraid that he would be

21

seen as a bad Republican, because he was facing

22

the left and not the right.

23

the style for number nine, I worked with that

24

artist for a little while now.

25

pension for liking kind of Byzantine, Eastern

Those typically faced to

An interesting side note is when

He felt that was his

And then lastly of

They have a

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and African styles as opposed to Western

2

literal depiction.

3

stylization, modernist stylization that Donald

4

was talking about.

5

likes to work, literally, but that I don't know

6

that artists that well.

7

DR. BROWN:

So very much in the kind of

I know that artist never

Thank you.

Any of the

8

liaisons would like to add any comments based

9

on what they've heard thus far?

10

MR. WEINMAN:

11

good information.

12

DR. BROWN:

13

MR. TUCKER:

14
15

No, it's been all really

Dennis?
Dr. Brown, this is Dennis

Tucker.
MS. PRITCHARD:

Hi, this is Sarah

16

Pritchard, and yeah, I really appreciate the

17

conversation and all the thought that was being

18

put into this.

19

eyes, and also just your job and what, you

20

know, the decisions need to be.

21

appreciating the reverse design of the three

22

women that are with the ship and the plane.

23

we can go and look at that because that that

24

does go to, with the women.

25

who's a welder.

It really helps to open my

I am really

If

There's one woman

There there's been significant

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discussion I'm sorry to the-- but it's one of

2

the other reverse designs that we've looked at.

3

You can go through it.

4

women, yeah, I really appreciated in particular

5

the -- this idea of like the women, the women

6

working.

7

cleaned up.

8

appreciated looking at that design from all of

9

the discussion.

Keep going.

Three

I understand that they want to be
So that that was really -- I

And then for the front side,

10

you know, when I when I was asking for there

11

was the verbiage for honoring the women.

12

reverse actually does help it.

13

understand a lot of people felt like this

14

design that's showing right now was is too

15

crowded.

16

01A but 01.

17

also, the other I would say this one was good,

18

but there is also one that people said, oh,

19

these women are showing, there's another

20

design, the women showing diversity.

21

like standing at attention just sort of in a

22

military way.

23

This one, yeah.

24

this one as well in terms of the discussion.

25

And yeah, that's all I want to sort of pull

This

And I

But there was but a number one not
I think that came up, but there's

They're

If we can bring that one up.
So, my eyes were opened for

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out, and I know it's typical discussion.

2

you.

3

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

Thank

You can

4

sense the fun that we're having as a committee,

5

really appreciate that.

6

MS. PRITCHARD:

7

DR. BROWN:

8
9

Absolutely.

I think, Dennis, you wanted to

say something?
MR. TUCKER:

Yes.

This is Dennis Tucker.

10

I was just going to say that maybe as a, as an

11

administrative way to kind of have a circle in

12

on a decision, if we could just use our normal

13

voting which is an informative tool, and not

14

necessarily a decision-making tool, but if we

15

could, if we arrive at some obverse that has a

16

great number of votes, and a reverse that has a

17

great number of votes, a majority of votes, and

18

if they work together, then that's our

19

recommendation, and if they don't, we tweak the

20

or kind of circle in on our answer, rather than

21

take the straight arrow through a motion, for

22

example.

23
24
25

DR. BROWN:

Is there receptivity to that

approach?
MR. WEINMAN:

Just as a point of order and

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the very purpose of the voting system.

2

not a voting system.

3

purpose in scoring is just to gauge interest.

4

That's why there's always a motion after that,

5

what you do with it.

6

information any way that you feel is

7

appropriate.

It's a scoring.

It's
And the

So yeah, use the

It isn't necessarily a given.

8

(unintelligible)

9

DR. BROWN:

I'm appreciative at the time

10

of the day, so I do understand that some level

11

of efficiency does make sense given where we

12

are.

13

suggestion that was offered by Dennis, then it

14

does make sense that we see you make sure that

15

at this time, that we begin the process of

16

scoring for the obverse and reverse candidates

17

designs for the Congressional Gold Medal for

18

women known as "Rosie the Riveter".

19

you has the scoresheet.

20

are participating virtually, you've received

21

that from Jennifer.

22

in five minutes?

23
24
25

But if there's no objection to the

MR. WEINMAN:

Each of

For those of us who

Can we reasonably do this

I can't guarantee that, but

we'll give it a shot.
DR. BROWN:

We will do as little as five

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but as much as ten.

2

you come back.

We stand adjourned until

3

(Thereupon, a break was taken,

4

and the proceeding continued as

5

follows:)

6

DR. BROWN:

We are back, and I recognize

7

Greg Weinman, counsel for the CCAC, to present

8

the results from the scoring sheets.

9

MR. WEINMAN:

10

help you narrow a bit.

11

obverse again, out of a possible 33 points,

12

obverse one had twenty-four, making it the top

13

vote getter, obverse 1A had eleven, two had

14

three, three had three, four had eight, five

15

had six, six had seven, seven had twenty, so

16

that's number two, eight had nine, 8A had

17

eleven, 8B had six and nine had five.

18

onto the reverses.

19

points, two had nine, 2A had six, three had

20

twenty-six, making it the top vote getter, four

21

had six, 4A had eight, but then five had

22

twenty-four, so close, six had two, seven had

23

three, eight had three, nine had two, ten had

24

four.

25

DR. BROWN:

Okay.

I think this will
Beginning with the

Moving

Reverse one had seventeen

Thank you.

Are there any

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motions?

2

MR. WEINMAN:

3

DR. BROWN:

I'm thinking.
Can we display again, option

4

one, that's had votes, obverse, and obverse

5

seven that had twenty votes.

6

MR. WEINMAN:

And by the way, as a point

7

of -- the question was asked earlier, I

8

confirmed, this is an original, this is not

9

from a photograph.

10

MR. MORAN:

Oh, it is original.

11

DR. BROWN:

Wow.

12

MR. SCARINCI:

13

I'll make a motion,

Lawrence.

14

DR. BROWN:

Please.

15

MR. SCARINCI:

I'm going to move, and

16

we'll see what happens with this, that we

17

combine obverse seven with reverse five.

18

DR. BROWN:

19

MS. LANNIN:

20
21
22
23
24
25

Is there a second?
Number two?

I'm hearing

number twos.
MR. SCARINCI:

These are two number twos.

We're going to find out how this works.
DR. BROWN:

So, the motion is obverse

seven with reverse five, correct?
MR. SCARINCI:

Yep.

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1
2

MR. BERNSTEIN:

purpose of discussion.

3
4
5
6

MR. SCARINCI:

DR. BROWN:

Okay.

8

MR. TUCKER:

11
12

Tucker.

Let's just call a vote.
Mr. Chair, this is Dennis

I would actually recommend that we

propose several combinations.
DR. BROWN:

That's where I'm going with

this exactly.

13

MR. TUCKER:

14

DR. BROWN:

Okay.
Watch me go through this.

15

have several motions.

16

MR. TUCKER:

17

So, the motion's up for

discussion.
MR. SCARINCI:

10

If you want to let it die

--

7

9

I'll second for the

I

Well, if that's what you're

doing.

18

DR. BROWN:

19

MR. TUCKER:

20

DR. BROWN:

That's what I'm doing.
That's agreeable.
And I just found out that the

21

two second place, there's (unintelligible) for

22

our seven match with our five.

23

second motion.

24
25

MR. SCARCINI:

So, I'll make

Hold on a second.

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That

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DR. BROWN:

2

MR. BERNSTEIN:

3
4

For one second.
He's going to withdraw his

motion, and I will withdraw my second.
MR. MORAN:

Okay, therefore, I will move

5

that we consider our one with reverse five.

6

Obverse one with reverse five.

7
8
9
10
11

DR. BROWN:

Motion on the table.

Is there

a second?
MS. LANNIN:
DR. BROWN:

I second.
Okay.

It's open for

discussion.

12

MR. SCARCINI:

13

MR. VAN ALFEN:

Let's vote.
This is Peter Van Alfen.

14

Can I just ask a question that the audio was

15

cutting out a little bit there.

16

understanding is that there is only one motion

17

on the table at that moment, and that's to

18

combine obverse one with reverse five, is that

19

correct or are there two motions?

20
21

DR. BROWN:

No, you're correct.

The first

motion was withdrawn.

22

MR. VAN ALFEN:

23

DR. BROWN:

24

MR. VAN ALFEN:

25

So, my

Okay.

Thank you.

Any other further comments?
While I'm still speaking,

sorry, this is again, Peter Van Alfen, I would
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support that motion.

2

DR. BROWN:

Seeing no further

3

conversations on this motion, all those in

4

favor?

5

MR. VAN ALFEN:

6

DR. BROWN:

Any nay?

7

MR. MORAN:

No, I'm sorry.

8

DR. BROWN:

Let's start over.

9

in favor, Aye?

10

EVERYONE:

11

DR. BROWN:

12
13
14

Keep your hands raised please?

MS. WARREN:

Was there anyone else?

I think Robin said I as well,

this is Jennifer, correct Robin?
MS. SALMAN:

16

DR. BROWN:

I did.
Okay, six, okay.

Any opposed?

Any abstentions?

18

UNKNOWN SPEAKER:

19

MR. VAN ALFEN:

20

DR. BROWN:

21

All those

Aye.

One, two, three, four.

15

17

Aye.

Abstain.
Abstain.

Two abstentions.

We have four

abstentions.

22

MR. MORAN:

23

abstain, right?

You know that right, when you
Okay.

24

MR. SCARCINI:

25

DR. BROWN:

Yeah, motion carries.

The motion carries.

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any other motions?

2

MR. VAN ALFEN:

So, again, sorry, this is

3

Peter Van Alfen, so my understanding is that

4

motion is carried, and therefore we are

5

recommending obverse one and reverse five, is

6

that correct?

7

DR. BROWN:

8

MR. VAN ALFEN:

9

That is correct, yes.
Okay, then I will make a

motion to amend the silhouette of the B17 from

10

the C or D model which was portrayed at the

11

moment to an E, F or G model which has a larger

12

vertical stabilizer and a longer nose, which

13

would be more accurate for production from 1942

14

onward.

15

DR. BROWN:

16

MR. SCARINCI:

17

Is there a second?
I have a question.

How the

hell do you know that?

18

DR. BROWN:

I said do we have a second?

19

MR. VAN ALFEN:

I know this because I'm an

20

aviation nerd who has building models since I

21

was a boy.

22
23
24
25

UNKNOWN SPEAKER:

Dr. Brown, I'll second

it.
DR. BROWN:

Okay, second.

All those in

favor, Aye?
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EVERYONE:

2

DR. BROWN:

3
4

Aye.
Any objections?

Any abstentions?

Any nays?

Motion carries.

MR. BERNSTEIN:

Hi, this is Art Bernstein.

5

I wonder, Mr. Chairman, should we involve

6

ourselves with the matter that April pointed

7

out concerning the hairnet on one of the --

8
9

MS. STAFFORD:
number 1.

10

MR. MORAN:

11

MR. BERNSTEIN:

12

I don't think it was a

I think it was on 1 A.
No, she's wearing a

hairnet.

13

MR. WEINMAN:

14

DR. BROWN:

15

MR. WEINMAN:

May I ask a question?
Please.
Unless I missed this, what

16

was the objection to the hairnet?

17

historically accurate or not?

18

MS. STAFFORD:

Is it

It's both accurate for her

19

to be wearing one, and it's, it would also be

20

accurate if she were not wearing one, so our

21

best understanding is that if you can go back

22

to one, that on both -- and 1A, the net makes

23

her hair, so I think someone may have used the

24

word like almost like a brain or some kind of

25

odd texture, and it kind of sets it apart in a
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way that is not necessary, and therefore, why

2

not?

Why not remove that?

3

MS. SALMON:

4

DR. BROWN:

5

MS. SALMON:

This is Robin Salmon.
Robin?
We don't have Act of Congress

6

2020 on either of these designs, and we need to

7

fix that.

8

MR. WEINMAN:

9

DR. BROWN:

10

desire to.

Only if you want to.
The answer is only if we

It's not necessary.

11

MS. SALMON:

12

MR. WEINMAN:

I thought it was required.
There's not a legally

13

required inscription.

14

inscription, but it's not legally required.

15
16

DR. BROWN:

It's a traditional

That was from Greg Weinman,

yes.

17

MS. SALMON:

18

MR. WEINMAN:

Okay.
But you certainly can make a

19

recommendation to include it on the medal if

20

you feel it's appropriate.

21
22

MS. SALMON:

That's alright.

If it's not

necessary, then we don't need to add it.

23

DR. BROWN:

24

DR. FULLER:

25

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.
May I ask a question?
You certainly may.

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DR. FULLER:

2

Harcourt Fuller.

3

necessary, would it be, would it be --

4

MR. WEINMAN:

5

DR. FULLER:

Even though -- this is
Even though it may not be

Desirable.
Desirable, thank you, since

6

the words an Act of Congress carries a certain

7

weight, and is officially sanctioned?

8

question --

9

MS. STAFFORD:

It's a

Typically, our liaisons

10

enjoy having that inscription on congressional

11

gold medals.

12
13
14
15

Would you say?

MR. WEINMAN:

We'll defer to our committee

members.
DR. BROWN:

So, Joe, is this possible to

add this between you and Mike?

16

MR. MENNA:

Absolutely.

17

DR. BROWN:

Say again?

18

MR. MENNA:

Yes, sir.

19

MS. STAFFORD:

20

MR. MENNA:

21

MS. STAFFORD:

22

MR. MENNA:

Put it under the tank, Joe.

What?
Put it under the tank.

What this?

Oh, sorry.

We can

23

always juggle inscriptions around.

24

sometimes be more radical, but we'll always

25

find a way.
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2

MR. MORAN:

Can we convey to the committee

that Act of Congress needs to be there?

3

MR. MENNA:

(Unintelligible)

4

MR. MORAN:

Okay, I vote it's the sense of

5

the committee that Act of Congress should be

6

added on to either the obverse or reverse in

7

the least obtrusive manner.

8

DR. BROWN:

9

MR. BERNSTEIN:

10

DR. BROWN:

11
12

Is there a second?
Art Bernstein, second.

All those in favor, Aye?
(Aye)

DR. BROWN:

Please forgive me, point of

13

order?

14

return, is there a discussion firsts on the

15

motion?

16

Excuse me point of order.

Let me

We have Dennis Tucker.

MR. TUCKER:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This

17

is Dennis Tucker.

I would have -- I object to

18

the motion because we've never really

19

solidified any sort of rules around this kind

20

of language.

21

of saying that it's the sense of a committee,

22

that we give a strong recommendation for this

23

wording goes too far.

And I think giving it the weight

24

MR. MORAN:

What would you want?

25

DR. BROWN:

Let me, wait.

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MR. TUCKER:

I think, I think, I mean I

2

have made proposals in the past on, on

3

addressing this question.

4

right now to say one way or the other, this is

5

what we need, or this is what we don't need.

6

But I think if, but I will circulate what I've

7

written in the past.

8

have not either objected or asked for that

9

wording, then we just let the designs stand as

I'm not prepared

I think if the liaisons

10

they are, or give the Mint the option, April,

11

to go back to the liaisons, and have further

12

discussion with them, rather than making it a

13

sense of the committee statement.

14

DR. BROWN:

Thank you for your comment.

15

Let's now turn to Dean.

16

motion.

17

MR. KOTLOWSKI:

He has a point on the

Right.

It was just an

18

observation.

When you pair both of these, when

19

you pair the obverse, and the reverse together,

20

on each side, you have the dates, 1942 to 1945.

21

And I'm just, I'm not trying to make a specific

22

recommendation because that's beyond my

23

capacity to do.

24

here, so I wouldn't mess with it, but I'm

25

wondering on the obverse, if the design team

I think it's nicely balanced

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might want to take a look at that, and see

2

maybe we don't need 1942 to 45, and maybe Act

3

of Congress can be put there.

4

reiterate, I want to leave this to the design

5

team.

6

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much, Dean.

7

have a motion on the table.

8

discussion on the motion?

9
10

MR. MORAN:

We

Any further

Is the is the motion amended

to allow the Mint staff --

11
12

But let me

DR. BROWN:

No.

That was not accepted by

--

13

MR. SCARINCI:

How about an amendment to

14

get that done, because I don't want to be in a

15

position dictating things like this.

16

DR. BROWN:

So, for the record, let's make

17

sure we have the motion on table as it is now,

18

but you accept it as an amendment, so you're

19

the maker of the motion, correct?

20
21
22
23

MR. SCARINCI:

How about if I just change

it?
DR. BROWN:

Okay.

So, for the record,

let's make sure we know what we are voting on.

24

MR. SCARCINI:

25

MR. TUCKER:

Okay.
State the motion.

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MR. SCARCINI:

I move that the Mint Design

2

Committee, resolve for themselves whether to

3

add Act of Congress or not to the medal

4

wherever they see fit.

5
6

DR. BROWN:

Is there a second to this

amendment?

7

DR. FULLER:

8

MR. KOTLOWKI:

9

I second this.
Dean Kotlowski, I second

this.

10

DR. BROWN:

Dean, okay, second.

Any

11

further discussion on the amended motion?

12

Hearing none, seeing none, all those in favor,

13

Aye?

14

(Aye)

15

DR. BROWN:

Any nays?

16

MR. MORAN:

I got one more question on

17

Any abstentions.

this thing and we'll let this die.

Joe?

18

MR. MENNA:

Yes, sir.

19

DR. BROWN:

So, the motion passes.

20

MR. MORAN:

You going to do 1942, 1945 on

21

both sides?

22

sides?

23

You going to leave 1942, 45 both

MR. MENNA:

This is Joe Menna.

This is

24

not a dodge in any way, shape, or form.

25

is very finely balanced as it is.
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So, it would

Meeting

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1

have to be really carefully considered.

2

even thinking about like, you know, popping it

3

in between "Rosie the Riveter".

4

kinds of different ways that we can address

5

this.

6

tip it over (unintelligible).

There's all

So, figure out a way where it doesn't

7

DR. BROWN:

8

MR. BERNSTEIN:

9

DR. BROWN:

10

I was

Question, comment?
I have a motion.

Please.

MR. BERNSTEIN:

I'd like make the same

11

motion that Mike made with regard to the hair

12

net, that we leave it to the Mint Design

13

Committee to consider whether or not the

14

hairnet should be removed.

15

DR. BROWN:

Is there a second?

16

discussion on the motion?

17

those in favor, Aye?

18

Seeing none, all

(Aye)

19

DR. BROWN:

20

motion carries.

21

matter?

22

Any

Oppose?

Abstentions?

The

Any further motions on this

If all discussion has concluded, then we

23

want to give our thanks to Mae Krier, Lori

24

Gould and Sarah Pritchard for joining us today.

25

We really are thankful for your contributions
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to this matter.

As a reminder to our members

2

and to the public, we are not reviewing the

3

candidate designs for the Harlem Hell Fighters

4

today.

5

business for today.

6

attendance of the public, the media, the Mint

7

staff and CCAC members at this meeting.

8

want to express special appreciation to those

9

who have written to the CCAC, asking questions

Therefore, this concludes the order of
I appreciate your

I also

10

or making recommendations.

11

important in the deliberations of the CCAC.

12

there are no further business to come before

13

this committee, I will entertain a motion to

14

adjourn.

15

MS. STAFFORD:

16

MR. BERNSTEIN:

17

DR. BROWN:

18
19

This is especially
If

So, moved.
Art Bernstein seconds.

Okay, all those in favor, Aye?
(Aye)

DR. BROWN:

All those nay?

In the opinion

20

of the chair, the aye's have it, and the

21

meeting is adjourned.

22

tentatively scheduled for November 15, 2022.

23

The next meeting will take place virtually as

24

the agenda is limited to approving the minutes

25

and letters to the secretary from this meeting,

The next meeting is

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Meeting

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1

and to review the fiscal year 2022 annual

2

report.

3

safe.

4

(Thereupon, the proceeding was concluded)

Thank you dear sir, dear, ma'am.

Be

We look forward to seeing you next time.

5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
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21
22
23
24
25
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CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC

2
3

I, TIMOTHY GUEVARA, the officer before whom

4

The foregoing proceedings were taken, do hereby

5

certify that any witness(es) in the foregoing

6

proceedings, prior to testifying, were duly sworn;

7

that the proceedings were recorded by me and

8

thereafter reduced to typewriting by a qualified

9

transcriptionist; that said digital audio recording

10

of said proceedings are a true and accurate record

11

to the best of my knowledge, skills, and ability;

12

that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor

13

employed by any of the parties to the action in

14

which this was taken; and, further, that I am not a

15

relative or employee of any counsel or attorney

16

employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or

17

otherwise interested in the outcome of this action.

18
19
20
21
<%28166,Signature%>
22

TIMOTHY GUEVARA

23

Notary Public in and for the Florida

24
25
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CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER

2
3

I, CHARITY RIVERA-GARCIA, do hereby

4

Certify that this transcript was prepared from

5

the digital audio recording of the foregoing

6

proceeding, that said transcript is a true and

7

accurate record of the proceedings to the best

8

of my knowledge, skills, and ability; that I am

9

neither counsel for, related to, nor employed

10

by any of the parties to the action in which

11

this was taken; and, further, that I am not a

12

relative or employee of any counsel or attorney

13

employed by the parties hereto, nor financially

14

or otherwise interested in the outcome of this

15

action.

16
17
18
19
<%17391,Signature%>
20

CHARITY RIVERA-GARCIA

21
22
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25
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1984 19:3
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1986 11:20 19:8
20:13
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20:13,16
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2000 94:16
2001 10:10 13:5
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2008 53:14
2012 13:3
2013 13:5
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2019 11:24
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20220 1:12
2024 5:23 8:18
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a
60:24
a.m. 1:7
accompanied
abbreviation
54:14
81:7,11
accomplish
ability 204:11
19:24 148:4
205:8
accomplished
able 14:7 51:20
146:2
69:16 87:5
accomplishes
88:24 107:18
59:18
112:23 122:3
accomplishment
124:14 152:10
15:8
159:6
accomplishme...
abnormal 48:14
59:24 76:16
48:25
130:20
abroad 27:7
accouterments
absolutely 70:9
177:6
70:25 76:13
accurate 193:13
88:4,9 108:21
194:17,18,20
130:6 131:4
204:10 205:7
140:11 143:5
achievements
179:18 186:6
128:23
196:16
acknowledge
abstain 192:18
64:6 110:25
192:19,23
134:4
abstention 92:17 acknowledging
92:18
170:9
abstentions
act 18:14 20:15
133:10 192:17
47:4,10 146:4,8
192:20,21 194:3
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

147:18,22
148:17,23
149:12,17
161:18 166:19
167:3 195:5
196:6 197:2,5
199:2 200:3
action 22:25
23:5,16 58:16
74:17,24 78:11
168:6 204:13,17
205:10,15
active 49:9
103:2 108:12
135:19 168:4
activist 18:16
activities 166:24
activity 172:23
173:1
actual 152:19
153:2
adams 10:21
add 54:24 55:2
64:4 90:4,6
98:24 125:19
130:3 177:24
181:25 184:8
195:22 196:15
200:3
added 197:6
addiction 81:22
addition 22:9
38:22 149:5
additional 27:25
41:16 44:9,12
64:3 65:15
72:25 85:6,18
126:4,7 146:3
149:12

Meeting

[additionally - america's]
additionally
3:24 27:19 65:9
104:14 156:2
address 59:19
61:22 175:22
201:4
addressed 9:15
addressing
198:3
adds 52:16
adjourn 202:14
adjourned 188:1
202:21
adjournment
91:3
adjust 63:25
71:17
adjustable
148:25 149:10
149:15
adjusted 49:16
55:25 101:24
adjustment
60:15 164:19
adjustments
66:19 78:3,5
89:10
administering
57:10
administrative
186:11
admit 109:11
admitted 51:7
adverse 89:21
advice 63:3
advise 43:6
advising 14:14
60:22
advisor 2:23 8:1

advisory 1:1 3:3
12:14 14:9
15:17 39:22
43:6
advocacy 27:4
27:11 49:10
182:2
advocate 142:3
174:5,10
advocating
53:22 62:19
aesthetically
95:18 165:3
aesthetics
102:18
afar 70:7
affairs 7:16
affect 52:7
affordable
136:16
afraid 183:20
african 51:13
105:6 114:14
120:2 128:1,2
128:11 142:9
184:1
age 18:18,20
48:9 50:20,25
52:14 54:16
83:22 151:11
158:25 159:8,10
aged 159:5
agency 27:3
agenda 3:11
5:15 12:4 17:12
202:24
ages 159:5
agnuti 182:6
agree 35:23
39:24 82:23

September 27, 2022

Page 3
83:25 112:8
113:10 116:22
119:8 123:18
163:8 178:11
180:15
agreeable
190:19
agreeing 119:10
agricultural
94:9,12,25 95:2
95:10,11 99:13
100:4 115:14
117:12
agriculturally
97:19
agriculture
93:16,22 95:12
110:12
ah 16:10
ahead 17:9 19:9
137:20,24
143:17
aimed 25:22
aims 148:12
air 165:13
aircraft 135:9
136:24
airplane 171:14
alabama 47:17
93:15
albeit 9:25
alexander 14:21
70:21
alfen 2:6 4:25
5:1 33:5,6 78:22
78:23 109:10,11
134:10 150:15
150:16,18
159:15 174:15
174:16 191:13

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

191:13,22,24,25
192:5,19 193:2
193:3,8,19
alike 159:13
alive 52:21
170:13
alleviated 44:2
allow 37:3 56:7
69:13 131:8
199:10
allowable 130:5
allowed 41:20
alluding 24:12
128:20
allusion 115:2
alpha 19:9
183:13
alright 104:8
195:21
alternated 93:24
amazing 22:22
ambassadors
151:20
amen 82:13
amend 125:24
125:24,25 193:9
amended 129:2
129:25 159:14
199:9 200:11
amendment
125:14,22,24
126:5 199:13,18
200:6
america 24:1
37:9 55:11 68:9
94:20 128:2
129:22,22
america's
127:20,21

Meeting

[american - arc]
american 2:3
4:10 5:23 8:19
9:2 11:20 13:6,7
13:11 14:1,1
19:11,14,23,25
22:15,20 23:1
27:6 29:1 37:6
40:9 42:11
46:23 47:4 48:5
51:13 54:19
59:6 67:16
75:24 90:18
93:6,14 96:18
101:10 105:6
114:14 116:16
116:20 120:2
128:1,11 129:12
130:17 131:7
142:9 145:12,24
150:4 163:18
174:8
americans 10:19
10:22 73:6
129:24 171:14
ammunition
135:10 136:25
amos 2:16 6:10
amount 129:5
amplitude 103:1
ana 13:10
ana's 13:12,16
13:18
analyze 39:17
anatomical
81:24
anatomically
79:25
anello 183:16
angled 22:21

September 27, 2022

Page 4
anne 2:20 8:24
50:7
annie 69:20 77:3
anniversary
11:25
announce 3:21
announced
11:19
annual 48:1
68:12,13 203:1
anson 91:24
answer 21:8
22:4 50:5 56:19
84:10,22 97:4
151:14,15
186:20 195:9
answering 84:18
anti 27:3 33:8
49:9 51:1
119:24
anybody 85:23
108:8 113:16
132:2 151:10
157:6
anyone's 177:18
anyway 86:22
apart 119:20
194:25
apollo 87:21
apologies 17:25
25:14 103:21
apologize 41:19
106:13 118:10
apparatus 60:19
62:7
appealed 171:1
174:7
appealing 157:4
159:14

appeals 171:1
appear 57:25
58:17 113:14
143:10
appeared
113:16
appears 46:13
56:24 57:2,12
57:15 58:3,15
89:14 99:18
111:10,25
140:16
appendectomy
19:17
appetite 41:8
applaud 28:23
40:21 177:25
178:4
applause 17:1
application
55:16
applied 94:8
appointed 13:2
appointment
12:2
appreciate 31:3
31:9 54:21 64:7
64:22 74:4 83:5
83:12 84:24
88:24 89:6 90:9
91:1 92:3
107:19 111:1
124:14,18
133:21 140:19
140:22 162:25
184:16 186:5
202:5
appreciated
77:9 177:8,14
185:4,8

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

appreciating
184:21
appreciation
50:1 58:24
202:8
appreciative
187:9
approach 49:6
186:24
approaches 49:6
93:16
appropriate
25:8 40:15
101:3 144:25
175:23 187:7
195:20
appropriately
122:8
approval 5:19
17:13
approve 17:17
approved 18:5
47:14
approving
202:24
april 2:9 6:20
18:8 21:15
44:13 46:22
60:15 61:2 62:6
63:20 64:2,21
88:10 90:2 93:4
101:6 118:9
134:24 159:3
167:23 177:19
194:6 198:10
april's 67:8
111:20
arc 22:16,19,23
23:2,16 29:1
31:4 40:3 42:9

Meeting

[arched - aye]
arched 60:7
architectural
31:4
area 56:6
areas 140:10
argue 70:2 171:5
arm 24:25
149:22
armed 10:16
armor 136:24
army 10:16
arnzen 2:20
91:24 94:23
95:3,5 133:19
arrive 186:15
arrived 51:5
arrogant 83:2
arrow 186:21
arrows 100:10
108:25 113:22
art 17:18 36:6
52:17 54:7 59:8
59:9 60:2 66:7
80:16 82:23
92:9 98:18
101:17 110:22
134:11 176:5,6
180:7 182:11
183:8,13,15
194:4 197:9
202:16
arthur 2:6 5:3
30:23 31:1
80:17 110:23
articulated
89:23 129:21
artin 9:3
artist 34:19
35:12 97:3,4,14
101:21 106:14

September 27, 2022

Page 5
107:2 112:17
123:3 126:23
127:24 131:24
132:13,24 133:4
139:19 142:11
162:10 174:11
178:20 179:21
179:22 180:3,11
183:3,3,24
184:4
artist's 97:21
182:19
artistic 43:3
127:17,17,18
128:17 158:5,7
165:11 169:10
artistry 77:5,5
118:24 165:10
174:1
artists 34:25
39:5 40:19
108:23 121:19
128:5 131:9
167:24 177:24
184:6
arts 2:3 4:13
22:11
ascending 19:9
asclepius 58:12
asia 137:2
aside 175:23
asked 6:4 71:21
84:9 86:24
96:12 189:7
198:8
asking 27:21
54:3 65:11
104:16 137:21
154:8 178:20
185:10 202:9

aspect 95:1,2
171:23
aspects 64:18
asphalt 24:12
assistant 8:17
21:6
assisting 20:3
association
13:11 154:1
assume 53:9
173:12
assuming 46:6
158:3
assure 43:24
80:23
astronaut 87:22
athlete 18:16
athletes 20:4
21:25 27:6
atlantic 30:8
atop 149:5
attached 31:23
42:4,5
attack 10:8
attacks 48:17
attempt 122:9
attempting
19:24
attendance
202:6
attended 51:11
attending 6:15
attention 29:6
34:22 36:1
145:10 185:21
attire 145:8
146:7
attorney 2:23
7:25 70:3
204:15 205:12

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

attracted 177:4
177:10
attractive 31:6
33:23 34:1 79:9
attributed
100:19
attuned 84:6
audio 191:14
204:9 205:5
authentication
13:14
autograph 32:16
automatically
48:24
autumn 9:20,22
available 52:12
73:11
avenue 126:20
aversion 174:17
aviation 193:20
avid 33:6
avoid 132:4
awakened
129:13
award 12:15
14:10,11,18,19
15:5
awarded 23:6
awards 5:17
18:14 135:6
aware 6:5
131:23 143:13
awareness
139:25 140:15
aye 17:22,23
46:11,12 92:13
92:14 133:8,9
192:5,9,10
193:25 194:1
197:10,11

Meeting

[aye - bike]
200:13,14
201:17,18
202:17,18
aye's 202:20
b
b 147:14 148:1
148:12 149:2,8
149:23 150:19
150:23 151:1,2
157:22,22
163:17
b17 193:9
back 10:1 36:19
39:15 42:12
45:10 90:2 91:9
93:4 95:15,16
96:13 97:25
98:1,17 101:13
102:5,25 106:15
107:9 109:3
112:25 113:5
117:16,22 121:4
124:4 125:11
126:23 127:3
131:5 134:1
140:19 156:4
170:22 188:2,6
194:21 198:11
backdrop
149:21 150:4
background
22:19,21,24
23:12 29:3 48:4
57:23 93:11
135:5 145:13
149:3,16,24
165:23 167:9
173:20 182:2
backgrounds
132:16

September 27, 2022

Page 6
bad 183:21
baer 69:22
baffled 111:4
balance 75:18
80:11 168:13
181:19
balanced 168:21
175:9 198:23
200:25
bandana 144:21
150:3 174:8
bandanas
144:14
bank 51:14,22
banks 23:2
banner 56:5
59:16 99:23
bar 105:2
180:10
barriers 141:2
baruch 48:12
based 12:4 53:15
83:16 90:7
92:22 97:19
133:1 155:22
178:16 184:8
basketball 11:22
11:23
batch 122:5
battle 128:12
beaker 99:7
bear 17:4
beautiful 14:1
36:3 38:14
76:13 77:5
140:11
beautifully
155:7 163:5
167:15

beauty 131:19
becoming 19:10
beef 60:8
befitting 76:14
began 6:3 18:18
25:7 53:14
63:20
beginning 3:22
114:23 135:21
163:3 180:17
188:10
behalf 16:11
49:11 64:6,19
107:24 140:25
141:5
beings 54:9
belabor 34:12
believe 5:13
20:17 21:9
25:21 42:9
60:18 62:11
69:21 71:19
73:24 88:11
104:4 126:10
141:1 144:24
believed 48:16
53:25
believing 105:23
bell 70:21
bellows 145:12
belsky 180:10
beneath 24:8
163:19
beneficial 99:13
benefit 28:1
65:15 95:14
104:19 156:8
benefits 178:11
berkowitz 48:12

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

bernard 8:25
48:3,6 50:20
54:18 55:20
57:2,13,15,23
58:6,22 61:12
61:12 92:7
bernhardt 2:20
bernstein 2:6
5:3,4 17:18,18
30:24,25 31:1
59:9,10 61:1,15
61:18 80:17,18
92:9,9 110:23
110:23 134:12
176:6,7 190:1
191:2 194:4,4
194:11 197:9,9
201:8,10 202:16
202:16
best 26:19 28:24
52:18 80:8
107:4 118:3
121:17 183:20
194:21 204:11
205:7
better 54:4,15
75:12,18 83:8
95:19 109:23
132:3 136:16
183:12
beyond 49:4
120:24 198:22
bias 81:20 84:5
bicycle 22:25
24:3,14,19
31:23
bigger 179:17
bike 29:15,21
31:5 37:15 42:4
42:5,12

Meeting

[biker - brown]
biker 32:11
bikes 32:12
bin 122:6
binoculars
112:17
biography 77:7
birth 10:18 11:7
birthday 11:3
bisecting 175:5
bit 30:1,2,11
36:23 47:2 48:4
60:8 72:11,14
77:7 78:8 79:1
79:19 80:3 82:4
88:7 89:3 93:11
105:11,14,18
109:12 110:18
111:3 118:15,15
119:23 139:17
163:19 168:19
175:12 176:2
188:10 191:15
black 51:15
96:18
bland 78:5 174:6
bloc 123:7
blood 51:14,15
51:18,22
blossoms 100:8
blueprint
149:20
blunt 105:11
121:7 130:13
bluntly 105:9
bluntness 121:8
blush 102:1
board 107:10
124:4
boardwalk
87:11

September 27, 2022

Page 7
boat 178:24
bodied 152:11
body 52:15
81:25 129:10
bold 29:25 32:4
53:23 106:5,8,9
121:16
bolt 55:14 66:21
79:18 149:1
175:21
bolts 179:11,14
179:15
bomber 147:1
147:14 148:1,13
149:2,8,23
bombing 136:10
boneza 2:10 7:1
21:15 44:13
book 79:19 80:6
108:4 109:1
booker 93:20
113:18 120:3
boost 19:6
border 24:15,20
31:6 58:15 99:8
144:23 146:7
148:22 149:24
borer 2:17 7:4,5
boring 121:9
born 93:17
boss 21:17 70:1
botanic 11:21
bother 169:3
bothered 101:14
bothers 31:20
bottom 32:18
58:11 60:7
78:12 99:25
113:25 144:15

bound 131:25
boundaries
105:15 107:13
bounds 111:2
128:25
boy 193:21
brackets 23:9
brain 194:24
branch 94:8
brandon 2:17
6:11
break 17:3,6
45:2,7 91:5
123:16 133:23
188:3
breakaway
19:23
breakthrough
48:18
bridging 23:25
brief 132:8
bring 53:16
125:11 185:22
bringing 115:20
brings 78:2
british 11:8
broad 130:12
131:15 159:10
broader 98:13
brochures 99:15
bronze 14:20,22
15:1 41:5
brooklyn 10:23
brought 13:20
71:14 96:13
130:18
brown 2:2 3:2
3:23 4:9,12,15
4:18,21,24 5:2,5
5:8,11,11 6:13

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

6:20,23 7:1,4,6
7:8,10,13,19,22
7:25 8:4,7,10,17
8:24 11:3 12:20
16:11,25 17:11
17:19,21,24
25:3,11,14
26:22 30:22
31:16 33:3 34:5
35:3,5,8,18
36:13,22 38:7
39:6,12 40:17
40:18 41:23
42:20 43:13
44:7,12 45:5,10
46:5,13,22
50:12,17 59:3
61:23,25 63:4
63:10,11,17
64:1,21 66:14
67:11 69:7,24
70:10,12 71:11
72:24 73:2 74:5
74:11 75:2 76:5
78:20 80:15
81:14,15 84:20
85:9,13 86:6
87:25,25 88:10
88:13,17,22,23
90:15 91:8,20
91:23 92:1,11
92:15,18 101:6
102:15,21 103:6
103:6,17,19
104:8 107:16
109:9 110:21
112:2,3 113:7
114:4,7,11,18
114:21 116:7
118:6 119:21

Meeting

[brown - carver's]
121:21,24
124:10,13,23
126:7,12,17
127:2,5,9 129:1
132:9 133:6,10
133:14 134:1,7
134:9,11,13,15
134:17,19,21,23
134:23 150:9,15
150:17 151:8
152:16 154:4,4
154:6,6,14,23
155:15,18,19
156:13 158:8,9
160:1,5 162:24
164:3 166:4
167:19 170:6
174:13 176:5
177:23 179:19
179:25 181:8,21
184:7,12,13
186:3,7,23
187:9,25 188:6
188:25 189:3,11
189:14,18,23
190:5,11,14,18
190:20 191:1,7
191:10,20,23
192:2,6,8,11,16
192:20,25 193:7
193:15,18,22,24
194:2,14 195:4
195:9,15,23,25
196:14,17 197:8
197:10,12,25
198:14 199:6,11
199:16,22 200:5
200:10,15,19
201:7,9,15,19
202:17,19

September 27, 2022

Page 8
bugged 31:24
building 11:18
52:22 151:1
193:20
built 60:11
113:2 136:24
147:16 151:7
177:13
bullion 14:2,16
bureau 13:14
burger 10:20
business 12:12
46:17 93:3
202:5,12
bust 85:22,25
86:1,1,17,20
98:14 116:25
busts 86:21
98:11,12
busy 36:5 78:8
81:3,3,4 108:20
163:9 171:25
byzantine
183:25
c
c 150:19 151:4
157:22 193:10
cabinet 10:14
cacc 16:11
caesar 183:11
caked 120:14
call 3:2 4:6 8:11
46:10 117:23
134:2,5 138:15
141:1 152:4
153:15 154:18
190:7
called 6:17
33:12 48:14
109:1 139:15

153:4 155:7
159:22 170:17
170:21 178:25
182:17
calling 28:2
65:16 104:20
138:2 156:8
calmness 66:23
cameo 75:23
77:10 80:10
cameos 172:12
cameras 87:8
candidate 3:12
5:21,23 6:1
18:10 21:11
22:12 23:21
25:1 44:18
46:23 47:15,21
55:1,10 59:1
90:18 93:5
94:19 95:24
101:5 135:1
150:8 202:3
candidates
187:16
cannon 69:20
77:3
canteen 156:22
capacity 128:20
198:23
capture 174:20
captures 40:6
card 111:21
cardiac 48:11,21
52:4
cardiologist
48:5 51:23
81:22
cardiovascular
49:8

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

cardioverter
58:8,10,16
care 49:7 53:12
136:16 172:10
career 19:19
21:20 49:4
careful 132:5
carefully 168:12
201:1
caring 53:23
carried 98:9
193:4
carries 145:10
192:24,25 194:3
196:6 201:20
carry 141:8
144:2 158:21
160:9
cart 111:19,22
carter's 95:2
carver 93:11,12
93:18,21,23
94:13,16 95:10
96:2,7,16,20
99:10,13,18,22
100:11,15
101:19 104:2
106:6,15 107:3
108:5 111:8,12
112:21 115:17
116:23 117:6,10
118:20,21,21
119:7,18,22
127:12,13,25
129:7,7
carver's 94:1,7
99:11 100:3,5
100:20,23
103:24 109:24
115:24 119:13

Meeting

[carver's - choose]
121:15
case 55:18 71:22
71:22 81:6
85:23 98:6
109:17 114:17
153:25 159:23
164:9 168:11
cases 61:5,6,7
110:13
cash 94:6
casually 147:12
casualties
136:13,14
156:24 161:13
caught 34:22
cause 21:16
causing 52:4
caution 82:25
83:1 162:4
ccac 2:2,12,13
2:13 3:9,18 4:3
4:4 5:13,17 6:5
6:15 7:17,23 8:7
9:20 12:2,3,6,8
13:3,21 14:5,8
14:11,12,23
15:2,4 16:19,22
16:22 17:16
26:23 28:17
40:23 41:15
44:24 45:11
64:7 91:10
124:6 188:7
202:7,9,11
ceiling 182:7,9
celebrated 11:2
celebrating 37:5
60:20
cent 113:17,17

September 27, 2022

Page 9
center 24:5,21
24:23 29:22
56:12 115:18
centers 99:22
136:20
central 58:8
century 86:16
87:6,7 93:13
ceramic 86:21
certain 11:13
79:22 158:15
196:6
certainly 27:8
36:9 41:23 56:9
61:22 68:12
74:22 103:22
132:9 156:6
159:6 195:18,25
certificate 14:20
204:1 205:1
certify 204:5
205:4
cfa 23:15 24:10
49:25 55:23
96:10 97:5
113:4 131:4
138:8 144:5,9
147:8,20 158:17
cfa's 23:21 97:13
97:21 147:20
cgm's 72:7
chain 24:19,22
29:15,21 31:5
chains 24:14
chair 12:8 38:9
39:8 50:11 75:4
78:19 85:5 92:5
116:9 118:4
124:13,17,19
126:9 167:18,21

182:5 190:8
197:16 202:20
chairman 25:1
28:9 30:12,21
33:5 35:20
36:12,25 40:16
65:21 71:11
73:3 74:9 76:4,7
76:8 78:22
101:4 104:25
109:10 113:9
114:6 118:8
132:8 163:2
164:5 170:9
174:15 194:5
chairperson 2:2
5:13
challenge
180:15
challenges 37:25
88:23 136:7
challenging
180:19
champion 20:20
21:18 24:15,21
24:24 29:23
32:19,24
championship
20:17
championships
18:20 19:20,21
chance 19:6
change 92:7
99:3 101:13
136:8 139:7
151:6 178:20
199:20
changed 139:16
175:21

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202-857-3376

changing 54:2
93:16 172:15
chapel 182:9
chapter 12:6
character 87:13
87:17
charitable 21:20
charity 205:3,20
charm 158:15
chart 9:25
charter 94:16
cheating 21:25
27:1
cheek 33:14
chemistry 94:8
chemurgy 94:7
94:18 109:13
110:2,16
chest 48:24
chewing 11:11
chicken 80:4
chief 2:9,11 6:20
7:10 18:8 49:20
56:17 59:15
71:12,21 86:13
97:2,8
child 136:20,21
childcare 136:17
children 50:22
choice 25:17
34:8 35:11
38:11 43:10
116:5 166:11
172:1
choices 36:9
37:2 38:6 39:3
142:1
choose 81:4,5
166:2,8 171:2

Meeting

[chose - commemorate]
chose 103:4
chosen 31:14
105:20 159:24
167:1
christina 73:15
circle 186:11,20
circles 112:18
circling 140:19
circular 97:24
100:9 148:11
circulate 84:11
84:13 198:6
circulating
14:15
cited 94:24
citizens 1:1 3:3
12:14 14:9
15:17 73:6
city 13:8
civil 136:2
clarification
44:13 182:3
clarifications
90:1
clarifies 81:12
154:2
clarify 69:11
71:16 85:20
86:24
clarity 76:19
clark 69:22
class 135:21
classic 129:6
149:19
classical 54:7
58:13
clean 77:16
158:16
cleaned 185:7

September 27, 2022

Page 10

cleaner 171:8
cleanness 63:22
clear 26:13,19
42:2 79:12 83:8
111:25 121:17
131:1 142:25
clearing 120:5
clearly 28:3
32:18 40:25
62:7 132:6
161:25 163:3
164:18
clever 109:7
111:14 121:11
177:18,22
178:19
cleverly 123:6
clocking 146:14
close 11:2 25:19
26:8 30:12 34:8
63:8 112:10,11
188:22
closer 11:14
12:1
clutching 149:22
coast 171:13
183:7
cockpit 146:25
code 14:4
cog 33:13
coin 2:15,16 6:9
6:10 9:2 14:1
36:3 43:11
46:24 47:4
54:19 59:7 60:8
63:20 66:4
67:23,24 69:12
69:21 70:8 74:1
79:16 80:19
83:7 84:8 85:16

89:15 90:19
93:6 95:21
98:16 105:1
106:2,7 109:15
112:1,23 113:14
113:21 114:8,12
116:23 117:10
119:22,25 120:3
123:5,24 139:6
139:8,19 141:14
141:21
coin's 58:15
coinability 72:4
102:11,17
coinable 72:22
99:2
coinage 1:1 3:3
12:14 14:9,16
14:16 15:17
75:24
coins 5:24 11:21
13:6 15:10 16:5
47:6,13 55:11
76:22 77:4
84:16 97:25
105:5 116:18
122:24 123:4,7
123:7,11,11,21
140:8 174:18,25
183:11
colleague 82:11
83:25 108:9
colleagues 4:6
15:12 18:1
30:20 74:6
79:14 81:1 82:1
178:1
collect 32:14
64:12

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202-857-3376

collecting 152:8
collective 140:2
140:18 147:6
collectively
130:11 135:7
collector 76:21
84:6 129:3,5
colorado 13:12
colorful 130:9
columbia 47:9
columnist 13:15
combination
76:2 123:10
169:14,17
combinations
168:17 190:10
combine 168:24
169:20 178:5
189:17 191:18
combined 87:17
come 56:4
124:13,18
132:18 142:16
155:3,6 157:10
157:16 161:24
171:9 173:21
188:2 202:12
comeback 19:13
comes 34:11
57:20
comfortable
28:16 54:25
107:18 113:20
comic 79:19
80:6
coming 8:2,15
98:6,7 120:21
143:13 148:6
commemorate
68:10

Meeting

[commemorating - conditions]
commemorating
96:1
commemorative
67:23,24 113:17
120:3 123:20
129:6,19
commend 39:4
40:19 162:10
commended
34:25
comment 41:21
43:23 64:6 81:6
89:20 112:24
118:10 127:4
137:22 155:20
159:17 173:24
174:4 198:14
201:7
commentary
110:19 143:4
commented 75:9
comments 17:15
27:14,20,25
30:13,18,23
34:3 35:22 37:3
40:21 41:14,17
41:25 44:9,13
63:4,18 64:2
65:1,10,15 76:4
77:10 78:24
79:5 85:6,13,18
85:20 88:15
90:1,10 103:9
103:13,17 104:9
104:12,15,19
106:10 114:5,19
126:7 129:25
130:2,7 133:7
138:18 154:10
156:1,3,7

170:12 176:7
178:1,2 181:22
184:8 191:23
commercial 94:4
commercially
11:11
commission
22:11 170:18
commitment
20:5,7 54:15
75:10
committed
51:24
committee 1:1
3:4 12:13,14
13:22,24 14:10
15:18 21:8,11
25:5 28:13 37:1
39:14,22 43:6
44:17 45:6 46:7
50:18 55:7
56:19 59:5 60:3
60:22 62:17,20
62:21 63:18
73:5 76:17
81:20 85:16
88:1 90:17 95:4
101:7,8 103:4
103:10,18 104:9
105:17 107:15
107:20 114:9
124:16 126:25
130:8,19,21
131:3,19 140:23
150:11 154:24
173:25 178:1
186:4 196:12
197:1,5,21
198:13 200:2
201:13 202:13

September 27, 2022

Page 11
committee's
57:4,18 140:15
common 20:10
155:11
communicate
123:17 131:10
160:21 161:18
communicating
131:3
communication
2:24 8:5
communism
114:13 119:24
129:18
community
18:17 20:6
114:14 128:18
companies
151:18
compassion
52:18
compelling 43:4
70:25,25 158:5
162:12,23 164:6
165:14 172:9
compete 129:18
competed 19:2
24:13
competing 27:6
27:7
competition
18:24
complete 38:21
completed 19:18
45:13 140:7
completely
122:1 126:21
159:14 182:10
compliments
177:24

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

comply 56:1
components
127:18
composed 29:3
composition
58:4 112:13
compositionally
60:23
comprised
136:18
computers 17:4
141:24
conceivably
169:6
concept 67:14
93:9 96:22
101:2
concepts 47:12
47:14 109:13
concern 40:8
51:4 136:17
174:19
concerned 52:19
114:13
concerning
194:7
concerns 43:25
175:16,22
concise 26:12
concluded 46:10
46:16 92:23
93:1 133:16
201:22 203:4
concludes 25:1
59:1 101:4
150:7 202:4
concur 35:6,9
concurred 39:11
conditions 94:5
136:9

Meeting

[conference - correctly]
conference 1:2,8
1:11 56:18
conferring
71:12
confess 81:15
82:17,25 83:12
178:2
configuration
146:25
confirm 6:14
confirmed
100:21 189:8
conflict 50:3
conform 102:3
confusing
176:13
congratulate
28:19
congratulating
15:16
congress 10:12
20:15 68:10
146:4,9 147:18
147:22 148:17
148:23 149:13
149:17 161:19
166:19 167:3
195:5 196:6
197:2,5 199:3
200:3
congressional
3:14 5:21 6:2
8:12 9:6 14:3,16
18:11,13,14
20:24 25:6
34:11 35:25
39:14,18 43:10
44:19 135:2,6
150:12 168:2
183:14 187:17

September 27, 2022

Page 12

196:10
connected 53:12
153:7
connection 98:2
102:24
conner 21:6
25:22
connor 2:19
8:14 21:9,13
25:22,25 26:2
26:10,24 44:14
44:15 46:18,21
connotation
132:1
connotations
120:24
consequences
53:1
consider 9:17
70:4 71:23
98:13,14 106:3
124:6 128:16
131:14 147:21
154:8 181:4
191:5 201:13
consideration
41:7 57:5 60:25
64:24 96:14
103:20 104:10
108:23 111:3
134:25 154:11
155:21,24
182:11
considered
93:15 152:11
154:13 201:1
considering
25:19 182:23,24
consistently
15:6

consult 99:1
consulted 82:1
contain 47:24
99:9
contains 14:20
contemplated
175:15
contemporary
161:6
context 9:18
120:7
contiguous 44:1
97:16
continue 62:14
64:17
continued 17:7
45:8 52:13 91:6
133:24 188:4
continuing
16:18
contrary 124:17
contrast 168:21
contrasted
168:10
contributing
13:15 116:20
contribution
46:19 83:6,15
85:4 91:1 92:2
contributions
14:12 82:7,22
89:2,5 107:23
135:13 170:14
201:25
convened 97:2
convention
130:22
conversation
44:16 64:23
65:19 90:7

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202-857-3376

127:23 155:21
184:17
conversations
130:1,10 192:3
converting
55:17
convey 63:14
79:17 110:1,12
133:2 156:23
180:25 197:1
conveyed 80:12
convinced 93:21
125:8
convoy 112:15
112:19
cool 87:3 97:22
178:22
coolest 108:7
cooperation
48:11
copacetic 85:1
cornerstone
11:17
coronary 49:7
corporate 2:24
8:5
correct 22:3
48:25 61:9,10
61:13 104:3
145:1 151:3
154:5 156:18
189:24 191:19
191:20 192:14
193:6,7 199:19
correcting 48:13
correction 88:25
103:7 162:19
correctly 153:25
155:10 159:25

Meeting

[cost - dc]
cost 94:3
costello 2:11
7:19,21 85:17
85:17 127:6,10
127:10,11
cotton 93:25
94:5,11 100:8
113:24
couch 108:2
counsel 2:12,12
7:23,23 44:24
45:11 49:21
56:17 69:10
91:9 188:7
204:12,15 205:9
205:12
counsels 70:20
count 112:11
countless 69:1
countries 29:8
53:19
country 10:1,6
16:4 115:22
123:7 137:5,7
148:6 150:2,7
167:12 171:12
171:16
countryside
99:14
county 32:11,13
couple 37:3 75:8
96:9 115:13
141:10,16
181:22
course 18:7
37:15 75:16
79:1,3 96:25
98:21 110:15,17
117:8 131:6

September 27, 2022

Page 13
court 10:19 28:1
36:17 65:16
104:20 156:8
cover 108:5,5
142:12 173:3
182:8
covering 18:24
cranes 137:2
crank 24:23,25
crates 99:8
crazy 66:11 87:3
120:20
create 60:10
161:3
created 35:13
142:13
creating 180:4,4
creation 72:3
creative 29:19
34:23 68:18,20
creatively 68:21
creator 49:2
critical 96:17
132:12 144:8
criticism 31:11
crop 93:23 94:3
94:6 100:5,10
100:15 106:7,9
108:24 109:13
110:1,16 112:7
115:23 119:2
crops 94:11
99:16 100:7
113:24
crossed 42:10
crowded 169:20
181:13 185:15
crozer 21:5
25:22

crozier 2:19
8:14
cues 57:14
cultivation
99:16
cultural 154:20
culturally
154:17
culture 19:23
cum 51:9
curation 13:5
curator 2:6 4:25
13:6,8,10
curious 26:5
61:8 165:10
currency 13:6
current 49:3
55:17 57:16,24
58:1,3,20,22
62:9,13 67:4,6
71:3 72:11
74:17 75:22
77:21 104:17
currently 61:12
curvature 34:18
101:14
curve 102:6
cut 96:3
cute 30:7
cuteness 30:11
cuts 56:12
cutting 49:5
191:15
cycle 33:17
cycling 18:18,23
19:23 33:24
cycling's 19:12
cyclist 18:21
19:22 21:17
29:2 31:7,12

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

33:6
cyclists 30:9
d
d 2:1 136:11
150:19 151:4
157:22 193:10
d.c. 98:5
d.r. 82:24 88:3
d5 66:1
dad 51:3,9,16,22
52:19 53:7,24
dad's 53:21 54:3
dance 156:23
160:13
dangerous 55:18
136:10
dangerously
48:14
dangers 53:5
darkest 53:24
date 1:6 47:25
53:13,18
dates 29:3,23
167:4,7 198:20
daughter 2:20
2:22 8:25 9:9
82:8 83:16
137:14 138:20
daughter's
116:16
david 14:25
day 15:9 28:20
136:11 160:25
163:12 187:10
days 18:24
dc 1:12 55:20
57:13 60:13
66:1 67:2,4
72:13,15 79:12
81:8 83:25

Meeting

[de - design]
de 10:21 18:23
19:2,8,15,18,20
20:12,14 22:16
22:16,19,23
23:2,7,16,17
29:1 31:4 32:3
40:3 42:8,9
deal 79:3
dealt 83:3
dean 2:3 4:10
28:6,7 44:21
76:6 77:18 79:6
88:11,13 89:24
103:21 118:7,9
122:14 125:8
126:10,12 127:2
134:5 155:2
170:7,10 175:11
175:16 198:15
199:6 200:8,10
dear 203:2,2
death 52:4,7
deaths 82:10
debate 43:12
46:9
decades 136:4
138:25 153:6,12
december
136:11
decide 153:21
180:20
decided 171:11
decision 26:5,7
42:23 55:6 61:8
167:17 186:12
186:14
decisions 184:20
declined 96:10
deco 180:7

September 27, 2022

Page 14
deep 58:24
defer 38:5 50:10
59:15 196:12
defibrillation
55:17 56:25
57:11 58:23
defibrillator
48:13 49:3 52:9
55:20 56:10,16
57:1,14,17,24
58:2,3,20 60:14
60:16 62:9,14
66:2 67:2,3,4,7
72:13,15 74:20
74:24 75:22
77:22 82:6,10
82:17 84:2 89:1
89:4
defibrillators
48:23
defined 163:6
definite 159:4,4
definitely
101:17 102:25
103:1 155:13
159:15 167:10
definition 152:2
152:10
definitive 42:23
delay 124:7
delayed 7:14
deliberations
202:11
delicate 118:24
delighted 73:17
delineating
117:2
demonstrate
129:11

demonstrated
20:4
dennis 2:5 4:22
39:7,9,12 42:25
43:1,5 75:3,5
80:9 91:22,23
92:4,6 116:8,10
134:17 167:22
169:12 178:4
184:12,13 186:7
186:9 187:13
190:8 197:15,17
dennis's 77:9
denominations
72:7
dentists 11:13
deny 125:21
department 1:9
16:12
depend 166:2
depending 181:3
depict 69:23
96:17 123:7
143:20 146:10
147:25 148:21
depicted 56:3,7
123:24 130:24
150:19,24 151:2
151:4
depicting 123:5
depiction 24:6
49:18 146:24
184:2
depicts 22:14,25
23:5,15,22
24:19 49:2
96:16 144:18
145:6,16,21
146:5,21 148:8
148:10 149:14

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

150:2 163:10
depletes 94:1
depth 161:14
deputized 19:5
deputy 2:19,20
8:20,24 9:4 50:4
50:4 90:3 92:25
94:23
describe 66:10
described 71:16
description 75:7
deserve 168:8
deserves 68:15
129:10
design 2:9,9,10
2:10,11,17 6:21
6:23 7:1,4,6,8
7:19 14:15 18:9
22:13 23:4,11
23:14,15 24:10
24:16 25:18
28:24 29:5,15
30:7,16 34:1
38:4,13,15,17
38:24 39:25
40:1,15 42:18
43:7,16,23 47:6
47:12,22 49:24
50:2 55:12,13
55:21 56:13,21
56:21 57:4,9,18
57:21,25 58:5,7
58:18,21,23
59:11 61:18
62:6 70:13,18
71:14,17 76:9
77:11,16 78:14
79:9 80:24 81:3
81:4,5,16 83:13
83:18 87:2 88:3

Meeting

[design - direct]
88:19 89:9,12
89:22,22 93:9
94:25 95:9,18
95:25,25 96:9
96:12,15 99:6
99:10,20,21
100:4,12,12,13
101:1 103:10,15
105:20 110:4
111:7,9,13,16
111:24 114:22
115:1,5,7,19,23
116:1 117:14,22
117:24,24
118:16,17,23
119:14,15 121:5
121:6,20 122:23
125:3 126:24
127:14 138:7,10
139:18 141:12
142:6 143:23,25
144:11,15,16,22
144:23 147:11
147:17 148:11
148:15,18,24
155:23 157:24
163:25 166:19
169:16,16 175:3
175:13,25
176:19 177:4,5
177:9,11,20
184:21 185:8,14
185:20 198:25
199:4 200:1
201:12
designates 66:4
designed 34:19
34:25 120:1,2
designer 106:18
132:13

September 27, 2022

Page 15
designers
105:13 113:4
designs 3:13
5:21,23 6:1 11:5
13:25 14:2
18:10 20:11
21:12 22:13
23:19,21 25:2,5
25:20 26:9
28:22 29:9,18
30:7 33:10 39:4
39:23 40:20,24
44:18 46:23
47:15,22 49:14
49:19 55:10,24
57:10 59:2,5
61:4 68:17
75:20 77:9 78:2
78:18 85:16
90:18 93:5
94:20 99:6
101:5,9 106:3
109:21 112:4,16
115:13 122:5,5
122:8 124:3,5
125:4 126:1,4
129:11 130:19
135:1 137:19
138:13 139:24
140:3 141:10
143:19 146:12
146:15,17,20
147:25 150:8,12
153:19 164:6,7
166:7,16 167:16
168:1,16 170:24
171:6 172:17
176:11,17 177:1
180:14 185:2
187:17 195:6

198:9 202:3
desirable 196:4
196:5
desire 94:10
195:10
despiau 86:16
despite 43:22
94:5
detail 163:19
170:2
detect 48:25
determination
172:4
determine 82:2
87:12 116:25
determines
162:13
develop 47:12
97:14 117:19
developed 48:12
93:23
developing
47:21 53:12,17
94:14
development
11:9 15:10
25:24 72:2
100:17 136:20
136:22
developments
48:22 112:25
113:2 117:12,12
device 49:5
56:10,10,12
58:8 63:7
devices 169:5
devoted 20:2
diagonal 175:4,4
dial 70:22

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

diamond 93:17
diamonds 23:9
dictating 199:15
die 190:3 200:17
died 50:20 54:15
difference 54:1
85:25
different 61:3,3
61:4 72:7 89:18
94:14,14 98:15
127:23 129:22
131:7,9,20
132:15,16,19
133:2 141:10,15
141:22 142:1,4
142:5,14 151:18
158:22 159:5,6
164:17 171:21
172:7 182:10,16
182:17 201:4
differentiation
96:24
differently
117:18 171:22
difficult 60:14
94:5 101:2
106:2 109:14
136:9 158:6
166:8 167:24
170:24
difficulty 88:2
103:25 116:3
digital 204:9
205:5
diligence 96:5
diplomatic
63:13 105:18
direct 49:3
55:17 57:16,24
58:1,2,19,22

Meeting

[direct - dr]
62:9,13 67:4,6
71:3 74:17
75:22 77:21
directed 13:12
direction 41:10
41:13 65:6
84:21 89:8,21
114:24 178:15
183:4,10
directly 156:10
159:9
director 2:8,20
2:22 6:17 7:15
9:4,11 12:16,18
13:15 15:20
17:5 93:22
94:23 137:16
183:18
dirt 103:2
dirty 177:3
disagree 67:14
disappointed
105:14,19
106:11
discount 160:18
160:18
discovered
51:15,18
discussed 72:20
116:14 117:20
172:7
discussing 11:4
27:22 30:6
104:16
discussion 3:12
5:20,22 6:1 25:7
27:12,23 46:9
46:16 59:7,11
65:13 92:12,24
101:11 103:19

September 27, 2022

Page 16
104:18 118:4
124:21,22,24,25
130:16 133:16
143:5 155:23
156:5 185:1,9
185:24 186:1
190:2,6 191:11
197:14 198:12
199:8 200:11
201:16,22
discussions
90:16 133:15
display 189:3
displayed 96:5
disposal 169:10
disrespect
111:10 132:25
133:4
disrespectful
96:23
distance 80:2
distinct 98:8
distinction 98:8
169:13
distinguish
47:25
distinguished
81:2
distinguishes
87:16
distracted
118:14
district 47:9
disturbing 107:6
107:7
diverge 86:24
diverse 129:22
164:16
diversifying
100:7

diversity 4:5
105:9 107:19
142:19 143:20
144:13,19
145:17,22 146:5
146:11,22 155:6
172:5,7 173:10
175:18 185:20
divided 66:22
division 98:1
doctor 36:14
61:6,7 63:21
81:11,12 128:11
128:11
doctor's 58:1
62:10,13 89:14
doctors 53:4,7
62:4
document 138:2
documentaries
155:11
documentary
155:7
dodge 200:24
doing 37:8 54:4
75:12 107:14
129:17 157:18
165:6 168:7
169:8 176:25
180:4 190:17,18
dollar 8:19 47:4
47:6 54:19 59:6
80:19
don's 35:21
donald 2:5 4:19
25:14,15,16
34:6,7 35:12,24
39:9 42:21,22
61:23,25 62:1
67:12 69:7 70:3

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

70:8 84:24
121:22,24,25
160:2,6 179:19
179:25 184:3
donald's 70:20
89:6 97:22
181:10
door 67:20
136:1
doping 27:3 33:8
dot 144:14
149:19
dotted 144:20
double 68:17
70:4 87:5 95:14
131:5
downs 103:2
dr 2:2,20 3:2 4:9
4:12,15,18,21
4:24 5:2,5,6,7,8
5:11,11 6:13,20
7:1,4,6,8,10,13
7:19,22,25 8:4,7
8:10,17,24,25
11:3 12:3,20
16:11,25 17:11
17:19,21,24
25:3,11,14
26:22 30:22
31:16 33:3 34:5
35:3,5,8,18
36:13,22,24,25
38:7 39:6,12
40:12,17 41:23
42:20 43:13
44:7,12 45:5,10
46:5,13,22 48:2
48:4,5,8,10 49:1
49:4,8 50:12,17
50:19 55:3,14

Meeting

[dr - effort]
55:15,20 56:14
56:22 57:10,12
57:13,15,23
58:6,19,21 59:3
59:21 61:4,12
61:23,25 63:4
63:10,17,25
64:1,21 66:14
67:11 69:7,24
70:10,12 72:24
73:2,2,3,15 74:2
74:5,11 75:2,21
76:5,11 77:22
78:7,20 80:10
80:15 81:10,14
82:11 85:8,9,9
85:10,13 86:6
86:25 87:3,25
88:10,13,16,22
90:15 91:8,20
91:23 92:1,11
92:15,18 101:6
101:19 102:15
102:21 103:6,12
103:17 104:8,24
104:25 107:16
108:9 109:9,15
110:21,24 111:6
112:2,3,8,13,23
113:7,10 114:4
114:7,11,18,21
115:24 116:7,10
117:5,6,10
118:6 119:9,21
121:21,24
124:10,13,23
125:1,15,19,23
126:2,7,12,17
127:2,5,9,24
129:1,12,20

September 27, 2022

Page 17
131:18 132:7,9
132:10 133:6,10
133:14 134:1,7
134:9,11,13,15
134:17,19,21,21
134:22,23,23
150:9,15,17
151:8 152:16,16
152:17,22
153:17 154:4,4
154:6,6,10,14
154:23 155:15
155:18 156:13
158:8,9 160:1,5
162:24 164:3,3
164:5 166:4
167:19 170:6
174:13 176:5
177:23 179:19
179:25 181:8,8
181:9,21 183:4
183:5,6 184:7
184:12,13 186:3
186:7,23 187:9
187:25 188:6,25
189:3,11,14,18
189:23 190:5,11
190:14,18,20
191:1,7,10,20
191:23 192:2,6
192:8,11,16,20
192:25 193:7,15
193:18,22,24
194:2,14 195:4
195:9,15,23,24
195:25 196:1,5
196:14,17 197:8
197:10,12,25
198:14 199:6,11
199:16,22 200:5

200:7,10,15,19
201:7,9,15,19
202:17,19
dramatic 28:25
29:25 30:2
draw 36:1
drawing 107:10
124:4 160:15,15
160:16,17
drawings 139:3
drawn 74:12
162:11,12
166:21
dreads 19:9
drills 146:13
driven 94:10
drop 72:14,18
72:19
drug 49:6
due 14:6 28:3
65:17 70:8
82:10 104:21,21
105:11 156:9
duly 204:6
duplicate 14:23
duty 107:14
dynamic 39:25
40:14 108:19
e
e 2:1,1,1 150:24
157:22 193:11
e.t. 30:14
eager 55:6
eagles 11:20,21
earlier 20:17
66:17 85:20
89:7 119:24
120:4 123:19
172:12 189:7

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

early 93:13,18
136:21
earth 97:15,16
97:16,18,20
98:3,7,8 106:25
107:4 109:4
earthen 96:2
easier 20:10,22
24:4,17 31:8
33:15
easily 62:10,11
101:16,23 112:7
175:21
eastern 98:4
123:6 183:25
echo 35:21
111:16 146:25
167:22 176:7
edge 49:6 127:13
177:14
editor 2:16,16
2:17 6:10,11,12
158:24
editorialize
43:15 44:4
educate 99:12
educated 52:25
education 93:18
effacing 32:23
effect 30:15
effective 55:16
94:4
efficiency
187:11
effigy 87:6
effort 26:25
137:9 143:21
144:13,20 145:7
145:18,22 146:6
146:12,23 178:5

Meeting

[effort - europe]
179:3
efforts 27:9 33:8
135:17 147:2
eight 13:21
24:22 29:20
34:22 35:15
36:7 46:4 50:2
58:18 66:9,13
66:25 74:23
75:17 77:11
80:8,14,24
83:14 84:22
89:12,22 90:11
92:8 138:5
140:4 143:15,16
149:18 163:16
188:14,16,21,23
eighties 19:24
either 36:7
69:13 81:6 84:2
115:5 125:21
150:24 157:24
167:13 170:3
174:19 178:10
181:1,2,12
195:6 197:6
198:8
ekg 60:6,18
83:23
elastic 152:8
electric 11:10
electricity 58:14
electrocardiog...
55:15 56:23
57:22 65:25
79:15
electrodes 58:17
89:18
elegance 79:21

September 27, 2022

Page 18
elegant 109:21
111:17 114:2,3
175:9
element 40:1
60:4,5 62:8
72:19 80:7
172:20 175:4
177:22
elements 38:15
74:16 96:20
107:11 112:12
169:16 176:1
elevated 119:5
120:17
eleven 21:2,3
22:8 31:25
33:21 35:16
36:11 38:15
40:1,7,10 43:24
45:19,21 188:13
188:17
eliminating
61:17
elizabeth 2:23
7:25 69:9 90:3
eloquent 76:14
emblazoned
22:17
embrace 41:9
42:23 122:1
embracing
106:20
emerged 19:7
emergency
66:22
emeritus 13:9
emotional
118:15
emotions 52:6

empathically
52:16
emperor 183:11
emphasis 75:21
emphasize 22:21
emphasized
75:11
employed
204:13,16 205:9
205:13
employee 204:15
205:12
employees 3:18
employing 64:10
employment
135:16
encapsulate
109:15
encased 145:23
encircle 148:15
encompassing
182:15
endorse 40:16
103:4
ends 42:9
energetic 40:14
energy 40:2
engaged 78:13
engineer 48:12
engines 147:1
english 51:6
engraver 2:11
7:11 49:21
56:17 59:16
71:13,22 86:13
97:2,8
engraving 2:11
7:20
enjoy 163:7
196:10

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

enlisted 53:4
enormously
109:18
ensues 143:5
ensuing 135:14
ensure 56:1
64:14
entered 136:6
140:1
entertain 202:13
entertained
131:22
entire 16:4
38:19 60:2
182:15,22
entirely 79:12
79:23
entirety 169:23
envision 70:15
equal 136:1
equally 105:3
equipment
147:16 169:9
era 48:21
es 204:5
escape 48:9
escaping 51:1
especially 36:19
168:23 202:10
essentially 92:23
establishment
10:12,15 136:20
esteemed 16:18
ethically 156:18
ethnic 173:13
ethnicities
141:15,22 172:6
europe 24:1 98:4
136:12 137:1

Meeting

September 27, 2022

[european - father]
european 19:11
evans 7:8,9
46:20 90:2
evening 173:5
182:8
event 16:7
events 10:3,12
27:8
everybody 17:5
63:6
everybody's
127:7
evokes 96:4
exact 88:5
exactly 44:3
130:14 142:15
167:8 181:20
190:12
example 20:7
28:12 30:16
79:12 80:4
109:25 125:8
186:22
exceed 82:9
excellence 20:5
127:17,19
excellent 28:22
35:13
exception 77:2
excerpt 72:16,16
excited 141:4
exciting 95:6
108:16
excuse 148:20
197:13
execution 10:3
96:19
executive 2:22
9:10 137:16

Page 19
exemplified 20:8
exergue 60:11
existence 27:4
expected 157:16
experience
15:25 28:11
64:13 116:21
experiencing
64:18
expert 183:8
expertise 39:24
experts 47:20
explanation
111:20 181:1
explanatory
40:25
explore 102:14
102:16 131:9
express 40:23
122:8 133:1
202:8
expressed 40:22
50:1 58:24
127:7
expressing
116:11
expression
158:18
expressions
157:14 174:22
extend 96:21
extensive 13:20
extent 78:17
82:18 84:8
122:25
extraordinary
15:21,25 18:25
extremely 55:4
eyes 99:4 184:19
185:23

f
f 150:24 157:23
193:11
fabled 19:9
face 37:13 107:1
139:6,8,19
142:20 173:23
174:22
faced 136:7
183:16
faces 139:9
157:15 163:5
173:16
facing 37:25
40:4 106:19
117:7 171:9
174:18 183:4,10
183:21
fact 16:16 18:6
25:15 26:23,24
26:25 27:5 37:5
43:22 46:7
63:12 74:2 82:9
82:9 83:5,11,20
84:7,18 88:24
89:4,11 90:2
92:24 108:13
110:12,18 129:5
129:17,21
133:18 154:9
156:4 157:18,25
159:2 167:12
171:16 175:14
178:5
factories 152:12
factors 133:2
factory 152:9
169:7
fading 32:25

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

fails 122:12
faint 29:16
faith 11:3 53:25
faithful 82:2
fame 11:22
familiar 37:12
129:8
families 80:8
family 50:1,7
51:1 53:10
54:16 58:24
66:9 75:11,16
77:12,20 80:20
83:13 90:25
family's 66:25
74:21 75:17
77:11 90:11
famous 10:19,22
94:13 142:11
fan 33:7 79:8,18
fancy 157:17
fantastic 40:20
far 41:25 49:4
82:8 101:23
127:6 138:22
139:12 143:16
151:24 158:23
184:9 197:23
faraday 11:8
farmers 99:12
farms 137:9
fashion 16:9
fastening 136:23
faster 20:10,23
24:5,18 31:9
33:16
fatal 48:17
fatalities 52:5
father 31:12
50:19 54:22

Meeting

[father - five]
59:1 75:16
76:15 79:1,2
81:19 94:18
father's 75:7
fav 41:11
favor 17:22,24
31:1,14 46:11
80:24 92:13
129:2,25 133:8
192:4,9 193:25
197:10 200:12
201:17 202:17
favored 41:11
favorite 33:1
108:21 110:9
fear 68:5 162:7
feasible 99:2
feats 19:25
feature 31:4
99:6 143:19
146:12,15
featured 24:5
119:19 130:20
175:15 183:19
features 23:11
24:22 55:13
57:21 95:25
100:4,13 144:11
144:15 147:11
148:24,25 149:1
149:8,19,22
featuring 147:17
federal 3:10
feedback 97:1
131:5
feel 16:8 28:16
34:18 77:20
82:5 83:4
107:18 111:3
122:3 125:10

September 27, 2022

Page 20
126:25 129:14
130:12 139:11
187:6 195:20
feeling 107:7
feelings 116:13
feels 43:1 77:23
feet 98:18
fellow 20:3
40:22
felt 42:15 96:17
102:17 114:25
132:25 144:7
183:19 185:13
female 8:22
fertile 96:1
108:9
fertilizer 94:4
fibrillation
55:18
fibrillations
48:15,15
field 19:10 24:11
99:25 136:21
fields 99:23
fighters 3:13
202:3
figure 60:12
63:24 78:13
97:15 182:4
201:5
figures 93:13
138:12 182:10
filipino 116:17
filled 99:24,25
136:23 175:6
film 155:9,10,17
164:15
final 14:5 47:18
132:7 173:24

finally 5:25 8:10
12:17 23:12
24:22 36:6
58:18 100:12
132:21 135:23
146:18 150:2
financially
204:16 205:13
find 22:3 33:23
79:8 81:2 107:4
109:22 119:9
154:17 175:3
189:22 196:25
finding 94:9
170:25
fine 22:11
118:25 120:13
finely 200:25
finish 42:10
106:10
finished 118:4
139:2 140:9,11
finishing 19:3
fired 51:21
firmly 59:21
94:6
first 4:2 11:11
11:12 12:12,24
13:2 19:2,11,11
21:25 30:4
37:21 38:3
40:18 47:2,15
50:11 63:20
65:23 69:21
77:4 81:17
96:10,14 102:1
105:19 113:19
117:10 124:19
128:1,4 130:18
138:18 143:12

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

145:5 158:13
166:10 176:9
181:5,6 191:20
firsts 197:14
fiscal 203:1
fishburne 183:6
fit 127:12 200:4
five 21:2,4 22:9
22:22 24:8
27:14 28:5
29:12 31:5
32:21 35:16
36:11 37:9
38:17 45:2,16
45:16 46:1,3
57:21 61:18
65:1 71:1 79:21
91:3,15 99:22
104:12 106:4,5
115:15 116:5
121:10,13 123:5
125:8 138:5
140:3 143:15,20
144:12,18 145:5
145:6,14,15,16
145:21 146:5,10
146:21 150:19
151:5 156:1
157:9 159:13,16
160:4,7,8,23
161:15,23
165:17,24
166:22 167:5,14
172:2,3 173:22
173:25 174:1
175:24 178:15
181:11,18
187:22,25
188:14,17,21
189:17,24

Meeting

[five - fuller]
190:22 191:5,6
191:18 193:5
fix 195:7
flag 22:15,20
23:1 29:2 31:21
37:6 40:9,11
42:1,4,11 43:18
43:19,19,22
44:5 145:12
150:4 163:18
174:8
flanked 58:21
flanks 58:9
flat 40:4
flatness 102:19
flattened 102:2
flexing 153:15
flies 147:15
flip 106:8
flipping 115:5
floor 1:11
florida 204:23
flowers 100:2
flying 147:2
focus 49:1 59:21
89:3 95:10,12
115:23 116:5
117:23 165:17
165:20 168:16
174:25 175:14
focused 52:3
96:14 176:10
focuses 71:2
focusing 64:11
173:11 176:13
177:15
folks 83:3 86:11
88:16 129:23
130:7,15

September 27, 2022

Page 21
follow 20:7
39:10 127:15
131:17 132:11
136:4 153:17
154:7
followed 135:22
following 3:1
5:16 6:14 8:10
19:4,15 47:21
91:14
follows 17:8
23:22 45:9 91:7
133:25 188:5
fond 80:5
footage 155:13
footprints 119:4
119:4,6
force 165:13
forced 122:11,12
forceful 76:23
forces 10:17
forefront 115:21
foregoing 204:4
204:5 205:5
foremost 40:18
81:17
forget 10:4
forgive 10:25
58:12 84:19
103:21 105:10
126:13 197:12
forgo 73:9
forgoing 73:10
forgot 77:18,19
form 35:24
200:24
formal 96:10
formally 14:7
format 168:23

formation
146:23
former 2:13,21
6:15 8:7 9:8,9
32:11 137:13,14
forth 78:4 176:3
fortunate 50:6
137:11
forward 16:21
22:6 30:19
63:15 82:19
85:2 203:3
fostering 100:2
fought 128:12
found 51:17
159:13 172:9
176:13 190:20
foundation 82:5
founded 52:24
53:2
founder 2:16 6:9
93:20
founding 49:11
four 22:18 45:15
45:15,24 57:19
91:16,18 94:25
95:9 99:10
104:1,2 109:19
111:16 114:2
121:9 145:6
146:14 148:20
148:24 159:1
172:2 173:22
182:2 188:12,14
188:20,22,24
192:12,20
fourteen 46:4
fourth 11:17
fowler 11:17

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

frame 148:11
framed 14:20
frames 124:8
147:17
france 18:23
19:3,8,15,18,20
20:13,14 22:17
23:7,12,17 29:6
32:3 42:8
frankly 73:22
84:16 178:4
free 24:19 34:1
99:15 129:14
friendly 125:13
125:15,21,24
friends 51:20
163:14
front 13:24
44:20 90:21
136:13 140:6
152:5 185:9
froze 74:11
frozen 80:3
fulfilling 50:23
full 18:19 19:10
72:19,20 100:24
fuller 2:7 5:6,7
12:3 36:24,25
40:12 73:2,3,15
78:7 80:10
82:11 85:8,9,10
85:10 103:12,12
104:24,25
108:10 109:16
110:24 111:6
112:8,13 113:10
116:10 117:5
119:9 125:1,1
125:15,19,23
126:2 129:13,21

Meeting

[fuller - going]
131:18 132:7,10
134:21,22
152:16,17,17,22
153:17 154:11
164:4,5 181:8,9
181:9 183:5
195:24 196:1,2
196:5 200:7
fuller's 112:24
fully 15:25 43:9
43:17 60:23
64:10
fun 186:4
further 46:9,15
86:22 90:16
102:24 121:1
133:14 138:10
176:9 191:23
192:2 198:11
199:7 200:11
201:20 202:12
204:14 205:11
future 3:16
127:22 132:5
g

September 27, 2022

Page 22

gendered 172:12
general 2:2,6 4:7
5:2,12 25:7
37:24 44:24
47:2 59:7
101:11
generally 40:23
81:25 174:24
generations
135:15
generators
11:10
generic 152:23
generosity 20:5
generous 45:6
genesis 183:13
gentlemen 15:15
91:8 181:21
gently 24:12
geographic 81:9
geometrical
76:24 77:15
george 10:23
93:10,12 94:13
95:10 96:2,7
99:10,11,18,22
g 150:24 151:3
100:3,5,11,15
193:11
100:20,23
game 118:19
103:23 104:2
gap 23:25
106:6,14 108:4
garage 169:4
111:8,12 112:21
garcia 205:3,20
115:16 118:19
garden 11:22
118:20,21 119:7
gauge 187:3
119:12,18
gear 33:24 47:24
121:15 122:20
142:23
127:12,12,24
gears 163:16
germinating
164:20,21
99:7
172:13
gershwin 10:23
gender 172:14

getter 91:19
188:13,20
getting 22:6 32:6
95:6 167:11
gibson 2:8 6:18
6:19 12:17,19
15:21
gifts 97:17
gilkes 2:16 6:10
gill 2:2 4:7,8
35:19,20,21
65:20,21,22
113:8,9,10
134:19,20
162:25 163:1,2
girls 156:21
157:10,14
give 20:9,21
23:23 24:4
30:11 34:13
37:22 43:20
63:3 68:23 69:5
77:24 78:15
108:22 111:23
124:4 131:20
160:16 165:23
171:19 172:11
174:11 187:24
197:22 198:10
201:23
given 71:7 82:22
89:8 113:5
154:10 187:7,11
gives 75:20
119:2 163:21,22
giving 37:19
74:22 170:11
197:20
glad 95:5 114:18
132:11 170:13

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

global 53:15
73:6
globally 52:11
globe 23:22 24:7
24:11,23 29:15
29:22 30:10
32:17
gloves 149:9,14
go 17:9 22:12
29:11 35:16
42:20,22 71:8
71:17 72:10
76:8 82:19 97:7
106:12 107:9
113:5,21 121:1
121:13 124:4
137:20,24
143:17,17 157:6
157:20,20
161:16 164:8
170:21 173:11
173:22 181:1,10
184:23,24 185:3
190:14 194:21
198:11
goes 39:15 66:4
102:24 197:23
going 11:4,23
17:2,9 29:3
30:12,15 31:18
32:10 35:21,22
41:7,12 43:23
44:14 45:5 55:9
56:23 59:12
63:1,14 65:25
66:18 67:1 68:7
68:23 70:18
71:9 76:20 77:8
78:9,15 80:24
81:23 83:7,19

Meeting

[going - halfway]
84:4,8,10,14,21
84:25 85:2,2,3
85:14 86:2,24
89:16 91:1,2
92:3 93:2 102:5
102:5,6 109:3
111:5,11 113:11
116:3 118:17
121:1,6,13,18
122:2,25 124:1
124:2,23 126:14
132:14,14 142:3
142:15 152:12
158:11 159:22
160:13 161:24
165:5 171:4,5
173:21 174:5
176:8 177:9
180:11,12,16,18
181:15 185:3
186:10 189:15
189:22 190:11
191:2 200:20,21
gold 2:22 3:14
5:21 6:2 8:12
9:6,8,9 11:20
14:3,16 18:11
18:13,14 20:24
25:6 34:10,11
35:25 39:14,18
41:3 43:10
44:19 135:2,6
145:3 150:13
168:2 170:12
183:14 187:17
196:11
good 3:2 12:19
21:14 29:9
30:16,25 35:24
66:12 76:2,19

September 27, 2022

Page 23
81:4 109:4
112:6 121:20
140:21 156:15
157:14 171:18
184:11 185:17
googled 118:19
googling 79:2
82:4
gould 2:22
137:13,14
138:17,19,19
140:6 201:24
gould's 138:20
government
135:20
governor 2:21
9:5 54:17 55:22
91:24 95:13
133:3
governor's
49:23 50:3
94:22,24 95:8
100:25 103:22
104:1 105:12
109:20 110:11
121:7 132:23
133:19
governors 47:11
graduate 48:7
73:16
graduated 51:9
graham 70:21
grandchildren
50:22
granddaughter
138:21
grandmother
170:14
grant 139:15

graph 79:15
graphic 79:25
100:14 119:3
grateful 141:3
great 21:16 25:6
37:17 54:5
62:24,25 79:3
109:1 119:14,15
119:25 122:9
138:20 141:13
143:6 164:7
167:25 178:2
181:19 186:16
186:17
greater 82:21
greatest 19:13
52:12
greg 2:12 5:22
7:22 8:12 18:11
18:13,15,17
20:12,25 21:19
21:24 23:13,16
25:6 26:10
32:12 33:7
37:12 41:22
42:6,15 44:19
44:24 45:10
46:5 50:4 86:24
91:9,20 188:7
195:15
gregory 2:19
8:22,24 18:17
gripping 58:1
gritty 157:12
grotesque
174:21
ground 97:15
102:10,13,24
106:24 120:18
120:23

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

group 2:15 6:9
51:19 108:22
141:17 148:3
164:16 173:13
182:15
groups 171:22
grove 93:17
growing 94:5
96:4 152:7
grown 100:7
guarantee
187:23
guess 31:11
95:19 103:14
111:20 125:10
126:18 160:15
178:21
guevara 1:13
204:3,22
guidance 76:18
guiding 20:8
gum 11:11
gun 144:22
145:18 148:1,12
149:10
guns 146:13
guys 60:21 63:2
121:7
h
hair 194:23
201:11
hairnet 138:11
139:8 144:9
194:7,12,16
201:14
hale 10:4
half 48:16 99:24
116:16,17
halfway 67:17
67:18

Meeting

[hall - history]
hall 2:17 6:11
11:22 94:17
hamilton 14:21
hammering
126:19
hanchock 2:10
7:1,3 46:19
hand 70:24
88:11 89:14
126:10 147:13
179:5
hands 58:1 62:8
87:1,18 178:22
192:11
happen 138:25
happened 27:1
happening
141:3 180:13
happens 10:23
189:16
happy 22:4
33:19,20 34:3
73:20 88:22
117:14 132:20
171:25 172:1,18
178:3
harbor 136:11
harcourt 2:7 5:6
12:3 39:11
85:10 103:12
104:24 122:1
125:1 152:17
180:1 181:9
183:5 196:2
hard 36:17 63:6
130:9 140:12
167:16 177:4,16
177:17
harlem 3:13
202:3

September 27, 2022

Page 24
harvard 53:15
73:16
hat 158:24
164:15
hathaway 120:1
120:6
hats 157:21
head 33:25
49:17 56:2
85:22 86:17
97:25 98:18
102:13 170:17
head's 102:5,6
headed 156:22
headgear 172:8
heads 102:4
headscarf
149:20
healing 52:17
58:13
health 21:19
48:6 49:6,8 52:7
53:8,12,16,18
73:17 82:12
136:16
healthier 53:22
healthy 55:19
hear 16:18 25:25
78:2,7 82:4
88:15 90:10
124:15 126:16
131:1 181:23
heard 46:11
50:24 54:3
83:16 90:8
92:21 96:25
108:6 124:19
131:4 137:4
144:4 157:1
158:18 184:9

hearing 3:25
9:15 16:21
17:16,21 44:16
46:6,15 54:21
63:6 82:3 88:16
88:17 90:17
92:12,20 133:8
133:15 134:3
180:23 189:19
200:12
heart 16:23
48:14,17,20,24
56:24 57:11,21
57:25 58:14
66:21 70:22
71:3,5 76:21
80:1
heartbeat 55:19
heartbeats
70:17
hearts 12:1
28:18
heated 43:12
heatedly 162:10
heavy 120:13
137:2,3
heights 72:8
held 135:16
145:11
hell 3:13 193:17
202:3
hello 50:15,16
80:17 176:6
helmet 31:13
help 36:23 52:15
72:1 142:12
153:21 185:12
188:10
helped 48:19
148:4,17 159:11

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

166:25
helpful 36:22
61:2 89:24
111:2
helping 27:17
helps 184:18
heralded 10:2
hereto 204:16
205:13
hero 32:14
heroes 32:15
94:17
hesitant 89:3
hex 169:1
175:21
hexagonal
159:19
hi 138:19 140:21
184:15 194:4
high 37:19 45:20
46:2 48:7 91:19
111:23
higher 102:13
113:3 161:9
highlight 143:12
highlighting
94:25
highlights 95:1
highly 15:11
hired 138:23
historical 10:2
10:11 11:15
41:1 100:22
154:19 171:10
historically
194:17
history 2:3 4:10
10:9 12:6 16:3,6
18:21 19:14
39:15 77:6

Meeting

[history - important]
93:14 95:11,15
95:16 113:15
129:8,9 138:22
182:11
hit 112:13
180:16
hoge 2:13 5:18
8:7,9 12:15 13:2
13:5,11,20,25
14:25 15:5,5,16
15:20 16:24
17:1 28:9
hoge's 14:5
hold 114:19
156:4 190:24
holding 99:7
159:18,20
165:13 175:20
176:24 182:12
182:19,20
holds 144:21,21
145:18
home 18:19
126:19 136:12
152:5 163:13
homefront 136:7
homes 137:9
honest 105:17
107:13
honor 12:23
15:22 16:18
48:2 51:16
62:19 68:14
93:10 114:16
116:1 123:23,24
127:20 168:8
honorably 14:13
honored 16:8
47:11,16 54:17
55:5 56:15

September 27, 2022

Page 25
honoree 59:22
honoree's 38:11
honoring 5:24
8:19 9:2 11:21
16:6 46:24 47:7
49:1 63:21 67:8
67:14,21,21
68:24 69:13
90:19 93:6
139:10 141:7
142:17 144:1
145:20 148:5,16
166:25 185:11
honors 51:8
hope 29:5 89:23
105:15
hopefully
126:15
hoping 122:2
hopkins 51:11
51:14
horizon 102:3
horizontal 60:4
60:5 72:19
horrific 132:1
horse 120:20
horseshoes
112:11
house 2:7,8 5:6,8
huge 33:7 79:7
79:18
hugely 80:5
human 53:10
54:9 58:7 73:21
75:10 78:13
170:22
humanity 51:25
53:25 73:11,19
97:18

humbled 16:8
humor 28:14
hundreds 94:14
hypocritical
98:11
i
i.t. 64:10
iconic 29:7
146:1 153:9,10
idea 42:10 97:21
97:23 100:15
176:23,24 181:5
185:5
ideally 100:23
ideas 53:23
116:13
identifiable
87:12 165:8
identified 21:1
49:23 137:20
139:24 145:16
147:9 148:19
153:20,24
identify 27:15
65:2 87:5 94:10
104:13 106:1
156:1
identity 128:21
128:22
ignored 57:7
ii 12:1 135:9,18
136:4 141:9
144:3 148:7,25
149:13,18,25
150:7 158:21
167:1 170:18
171:20 177:7
illinois 47:16
101:9

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

illustrate 59:20
illustration
169:22
image 22:24
42:13 105:21
106:1 113:13,13
113:14,18,20
115:16 144:9
153:8 173:15
imagery 96:1
images 112:10
156:16 157:3
imagine 29:13
86:15 117:20
179:1
imaginings
96:25
immediately
97:2 106:7
immigrated 48:8
impact 49:7
impacted 136:2
impersonal
109:22
implanted 48:23
implicated 124:9
implied 38:13
import 148:2
149:3
importance
105:5
important 15:9
16:2,7 21:17,22
28:19 29:7,12
38:20 49:5 66:3
74:18 96:18
97:5 105:2,8,21
107:17 115:10
120:6 122:7
128:10,21

Meeting

[important - inscriptions]
129:12 132:21
141:6,13 153:18
167:11 171:13
171:18,24
202:11
impossible
101:3
impression
160:16
imprints 119:6
improve 52:3
64:14,18 82:16
121:6
improved
136:14
improving 94:3
inactive 78:6
inch 14:21,22,25
160:10 168:23
inclination
29:10
include 10:15
20:12 58:5
68:13 101:3
105:20 130:22
131:12 138:4
149:12,17
195:19
included 3:11
49:5 99:16
140:2
includes 5:16
24:16 38:22
135:16 138:5
143:16,23,25
163:24
including 14:4
48:22 68:11,11
100:14 105:12
151:20 163:23

inconclusive
110:18
incorporating
128:19
increase 41:7
56:9
incredible 32:24
54:6
incredibly
128:12
incuse 97:25
98:17,17 108:13
108:17 117:2
incused 23:9
24:20 29:24
58:10,15 96:7
100:13 121:15
158:4 176:1
indicate 6:16
indicated 143:9
144:24
indicating 4:4
indication 97:9
individual
165:20 173:12
175:15
individual's
87:12
individuals
123:24 144:10
163:11,12
165:20
inductee 94:17
industrial 94:9
100:18 136:13
136:23 156:25
industries 142:5
industry 135:20
145:24 170:20
171:14

September 27, 2022

Page 26
inelegant 96:21
information
47:2 53:13 57:4
57:18 71:24
72:25 79:10
81:18 99:16
139:21 184:11
187:6
informative
186:13
infused 119:1
ingredients
118:1
inherent 21:23
initial 96:19
99:21
initially 135:20
135:24
initiative 53:15
injection 82:15
innovated 128:7
innovation 5:24
8:19,19 9:1,2,2
46:24 47:4,7
54:19 56:15
59:6,22 63:21
63:23 66:5
67:16 68:25,25
69:3,13 70:23
73:24 74:13
76:3 80:12 82:6
84:24 89:1
90:13,19 93:6
101:10 110:16
111:21,25
114:24 115:12
128:7 131:11
innovations 5:24
11:5 46:24
67:21 90:19

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

93:7 100:20
115:25 117:6,13
117:17 128:15
131:13
innovative 55:16
99:15
innovator 48:2
49:3 63:23
69:14 73:25
74:13 76:2
80:12 83:15
84:23 88:25
89:2 93:10
109:16 131:10
innovators 47:7
78:1
input 15:7,8
113:5
inquiry 96:5
inscribed 23:18
24:15
inscription
23:23,25 24:14
24:21,24 56:9
57:2,15,23 58:2
58:6,10 59:17
96:7 99:9,18
100:11,14
143:24,25 144:7
144:17 145:13
145:20,25
146:16,19
147:23 175:7
195:13,14
196:10
inscriptions
20:11,20 23:3
24:20 55:10,19
57:13 58:21
71:20 94:19

Meeting

[inscriptions - jump]
114:15 146:3,8
147:3,18 148:5
148:16,22 149:6
149:12,16,25
150:5 196:23
insert 62:4 143:4
insight 15:13
28:11 39:24
insightful 13:23
insights 116:13
inspiration 38:1
105:24 135:14
inspired 15:6
53:20 76:13
99:8
inspiring 73:14
76:14 173:2
institute 53:20
93:15,21
instrumental
72:2 93:15
115:20
integrated 52:15
77:6 96:20
integration
135:23
intended 30:17
74:1
intense 52:6
intent 183:3
intention 182:20
interest 41:2
94:7 127:8
187:3
interested 77:13
81:25 204:17
205:14
interesting
29:19 36:8
66:20 81:17

September 27, 2022

Page 27
87:1 117:3
162:22 163:25
169:1 170:23
172:14 183:17
interests 14:13
intergovernme...
7:16
international
20:2 49:12 53:2
internet 79:4
83:17
interpret 68:21
interrupting
41:19
interviews
155:13
intriguing
117:25
intro 12:20
introduce 4:3
50:19
introducing
140:16
introduction
78:25 85:21
invasion 136:11
invasive 52:2
invent 108:11
invented 59:23
invention 11:9
52:9,11 66:5,10
67:9 69:23 74:3
90:13
inventions
106:16,20
120:16
inventiveness
109:5
inventor 94:12

invoke 33:18
involve 194:5
involved 63:12
68:6 83:10
101:4
involves 94:8
iowa 93:19
irish 123:4
iron 158:2
irregular 56:23
isaac 120:1
isaiah 182:9
ishness 180:7
isolation 70:13
issuances 48:1
issue 47:6 84:14
103:10 166:15
issued 119:19,23
issues 9:14 64:24
70:19 84:23
103:11 132:12
it'll 72:17
item 3:11 17:12
j

159:22 167:24
184:19
jobs 135:20
136:23 137:6
joe 2:11 7:10
43:13,14 44:7,8
59:24 60:1 62:5
62:16 69:24,25
71:21 85:14,19
86:6,7 87:25
88:14 89:13
97:8,12 98:25
101:12 108:14
124:4 129:1
161:4 164:12,14
165:7 167:23
179:6 181:23
182:1 196:14,19
200:17,23
joe's 117:1
john 10:20 122:9
johns 51:11
join 12:5 15:15
54:2
joined 28:12
james 123:5
46:18 135:8
183:6
joining 9:12
jane 183:6
12:21 16:19
jean 32:7
56:18 64:17
jeep 148:2
86:11 92:25
jennifer 2:13 6:5
201:24
6:8 7:14 21:15
joseph 71:25
27:17,18 36:15
journey 54:14
44:23 90:23
139:5
187:21 192:14
joyce 123:5
jesse 10:24
joys 73:4
jessup 99:12
juggle 196:23
jews 51:12
jump 69:11,20
jive 156:20
77:3 155:1
job 1:14 34:20
160:7
82:21 157:19

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

Meeting

[jumped - lane]
jumped 38:3
160:3
june 5:20 14:6
17:14 47:17
136:12
junior 18:19
120:19
justice 51:4,10
justices 10:20
k
kansas 93:19
keep 27:13
64:25 72:20
104:11 126:19
155:25 170:13
185:3 192:11
keepers 33:12
keeping 27:16
52:21 65:8
123:14,14
keeps 27:19
kept 72:14 137:9
key 29:13
kid 32:11 87:10
kids 116:19
128:3
kind 21:24 22:1
30:7 32:25 39:9
77:24 86:15
87:19 95:14
97:19,20 106:23
118:2,24 120:6
120:12,14
123:15 127:16
132:4 139:20
142:13 153:11
155:4,11 158:3
161:1,1 162:15
162:17 163:20
168:12 172:14

September 27, 2022

Page 28
180:6,16 183:13
183:25 184:2
186:11,20
194:24,25
197:19
kinds 201:4
king 98:5 120:19
knew 54:8
142:10 158:11
knock 73:7
know 7:13 9:24
11:13 12:8
13:10 15:3,7,24
16:14 21:16,23
21:24 22:2
25:17 26:14,15
26:18 27:17,18
29:9,24 30:9
31:21,23 32:10
34:8,9,19,24
37:8,8,13,23
41:2,20 42:1
43:1,2,2,3,4,9,9
44:5 55:2 56:13
63:7 66:2,18,24
67:5 68:13,18
68:19,19,23
69:2,25 70:19
71:5 73:18
77:15 78:9,16
79:15 81:21
83:23 84:11,12
87:6,22 95:17
95:17,20,22
102:9 106:22
108:17 110:4,5
110:8 117:5
118:12 119:21
120:13,25 122:2
122:10,11,14,14

122:17,21,22
123:4,6,8,11,13
123:15,20,22,23
124:2,7 125:7
125:10,16 126:5
126:14,24 127:7
132:2,13,17
139:15,20 142:4
142:10 151:10
151:17,19,23
152:7,10,13
153:8,10 154:2
154:16,19 155:5
155:17 159:22
160:3,7,11,11
160:12,14,19,20
160:23,24 161:2
161:3,4,4,5,6,7
161:8,9,10,11
161:12,12,13,23
161:24 162:1,2
162:2,3,8,9,12
162:14,15,16,17
162:22 164:25
165:1,5,5,6,11
165:16,21,25
168:5 170:1
171:12 172:23
174:16 175:20
179:1 180:2,6,6
180:7,10,12,16
183:1,12 184:4
184:5,20 185:10
186:1 192:22
193:17,19
199:23 201:2
knowing 81:25
knowledge
13:21,23 204:11
205:8

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202-857-3376

known 6:2 9:6
77:25 135:2
150:13 152:19
157:22 187:18
knows 128:13
kotlowki 200:8
kotlowski 2:3
4:10,11 28:6,8
76:7 77:18
88:14 103:22
104:6 118:8,9
126:14,18 134:6
155:1,2 170:8
170:10 198:17
200:8
krier 2:21 9:8
137:12 140:25
140:25 141:5
201:23
kudos 121:18
l
l 2:21 9:5
l.a. 183:7
labeled 57:5,19
100:10
lace 119:1
120:13
lack 95:19
lacking 110:17
131:2
ladies 15:15 91:8
181:21
lafayette 10:21
laid 11:17
land 131:25,25
132:12
landscapes
76:24
lane 127:16

Meeting

[language - liking]
language 51:7
197:20
lannin 2:8 5:9
5:10 17:20,20
31:17,18 63:19
63:19 66:15,16
66:17 107:25
108:1 134:7,8
151:9,9,24
152:15 158:10
158:11,12
178:17,17 179:9
179:12,16
189:19 191:9
large 57:21
largely 100:19
larger 193:11
lastly 183:22
late 118:18
laude 51:9
launched 53:11
131:7
law 18:13 47:3
135:6
lawrence 2:2
3:23 5:11 40:17
63:11 81:15
84:20 87:25
88:23 103:6,18
155:19 189:13
lawyer 68:19
85:1
layered 44:2
lead 52:7,8
136:8,14 174:21
leader 2:4,8 4:16
4:19 5:9 18:17
48:10
leadership 76:17

September 27, 2022

Page 29
lean 40:23 41:10
84:21,25 89:8
89:21 111:11
178:15
leaning 88:19
89:10 110:10
leap 111:19,21
learn 73:5,8,20
128:2
learned 64:14
79:2 80:20
leave 42:17
141:17 199:4
200:21 201:12
leaving 168:15
led 11:9 97:2
135:19 136:19
left 16:22,23
51:2 88:7
108:11 117:9
119:7 121:3,9
159:7,9 164:11
171:9 183:9,19
183:22
legacy 119:8
legal 2:12 7:22
25:4 49:21
56:17 59:4
69:10 101:7
103:10 150:10
162:5,13
legally 195:12
195:14
legendary 128:4
legible 72:21
legions 182:15
legislation 69:12
legislative 2:19
2:20 7:15 8:17
9:4 21:6 49:17

56:1 60:13,24
94:23
legumes 93:25
lemond 5:22
8:12 18:11,13
18:15,18 19:2,7
19:13,17,18,22
20:1,4,12,25
21:5 22:14,18
22:23 23:2,5,8
23:16,20,24
24:6,13 25:6,23
27:4 28:23 29:2
29:11 31:3,19
33:7 37:12
41:12 43:21
44:4,19
lemond's 22:10
22:22 23:13
26:25 33:21
39:21 43:15
lemonds 24:3,17
lesson 182:12
lessons 64:14
letter 72:8
lettering 75:19
141:6
letters 5:18
17:13,17 18:4
202:25
letting 168:5
level 113:3
187:10
lewiston 48:7
51:5
liaison 2:13 6:4
7:16 21:5 25:23
50:2 55:22
94:21 100:25
140:15

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202-857-3376

liaisons 3:18
8:11 47:20
90:24 137:12,18
137:21,23,25
138:9,15 144:5
145:15 146:20
147:7,10,20
148:19 170:11
184:8 196:9
198:7,11
liberty 14:2 70:6
147:13 148:2,14
149:2,8,23
license 169:10
lied 151:21
life 10:6 19:16
50:23 52:16,21
52:23 53:9 54:3
54:5 70:24
73:13 75:7
82:16,16 96:6
97:17 155:8
174:20
lifesaving 48:19
lift 157:7
light 157:8
lightning 55:14
66:21 79:18
liked 26:15
31:20 32:8
42:18 66:7
73:23 111:13
139:6 156:15
157:5 158:16
163:9,17,17,21
167:5 171:10
177:5,10
likes 184:5
liking 183:25

Meeting

[limitations - lown]
limitations
89:23
limited 129:5
202:24
line 42:11 55:15
56:23 57:22
87:14,15 98:9
101:24 117:2
140:12 157:9,13
157:17 169:7
175:5 177:2
lined 159:3
lines 117:20
linking 122:20
list 137:6,20,24
listen 70:15
listened 52:16
listeners 3:7
listening 3:25
30:19 97:13
literal 182:24
184:2
literally 176:16
184:5
literature 54:7,9
lithuania 48:9
51:1
lithuanian 48:5
little 9:25 29:16
29:17 30:1 35:8
36:23 47:2 48:4
60:8 72:11,14
72:17 75:20
77:7 78:5,6,8
79:1,19 80:3
82:4 86:6 87:9
88:7 93:11
101:15 105:11
105:14,18 111:3
111:4 114:20

September 27, 2022

Page 30
118:15,15
119:23 126:15
128:3 139:17
161:9,10 163:17
163:19 168:19
172:13 174:6
175:19 179:25
180:19 182:11
183:24 187:25
191:15
live 161:21
164:1
lively 96:1
lives 69:1
liz 56:18
location 1:8
long 50:23 73:13
84:20 150:20
longer 193:12
look 16:21 22:5
39:23 44:3,4
61:3 71:1,6
76:22 80:3
89:17 95:19
101:13 106:7,12
106:14 108:10
111:19 112:23
116:25 123:15
139:4,17 143:17
153:13 155:14
155:17 156:21
157:12,13 159:1
160:12 161:5
162:3,6,8,16
163:6 168:2
176:21,22
180:12 181:6
184:23 199:1
203:3

looked 30:4
119:2 140:7,9
156:18,19 176:9
177:2 185:2
looking 10:1
30:3,19 43:25
76:16 85:11
105:23,24,25
106:17,20,23
112:22 114:24
115:1,5 120:10
120:16 140:8
148:1 156:14
158:16 161:25
163:7 164:10
170:1 171:17
173:18 178:18
182:21,25 185:8
looks 31:22
37:14 42:4 76:1
101:15 102:1
142:8 157:7,15
165:4
looms 10:7,7
loose 152:9
lori 2:22 9:8
137:13 138:17
138:19 139:22
140:19 145:1
201:23
lorie 144:24
lose 10:6 124:2
lost 52:17 79:11
80:1 110:6
115:12 126:21
lot 21:19 28:12
28:15,21 29:9
34:13 76:18,19
79:10 83:4
88:17 101:19

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202-857-3376

105:24 111:18
118:11 119:8
120:5 140:7
142:1 152:13
161:17 162:1
169:25 171:14
176:11 177:6
178:20 180:13
180:14,23,23
185:13
lots 32:13 139:3
164:7
loud 131:1
louder 35:8 86:6
179:25
loudly 28:2
65:17 104:21
156:9
louise 54:13
love 11:23 28:25
29:5 34:17,17
37:22 40:11
52:12 169:21,22
loved 54:7
lovely 16:9 39:3
71:6
lowd 75:14
lower 56:6 60:3
60:6 71:20
100:17 161:10
lowered 56:6
60:5
lowering 70:16
lown 2:20,20
8:25,25 48:3,5,6
48:8,10 49:2,8
50:1,7,9,11,13
50:15,17,20
53:14,19,20
54:18,21 55:3

Meeting

[lown - medal]
55:14,15,20
56:14,22 57:2
57:10,12,13,15
57:23 58:6,10
58:19,22,24
59:21 61:12,13
63:25 74:2 75:5
76:11,12,12
78:24 81:18
82:3 87:3 88:6
90:3,6,9,25 92:8
92:25
lown's 49:4 61:5
75:21 77:22
81:10 86:25
loyal 12:16
lunar 72:17
lunch 134:1
lunchbox 150:3
luther 98:5
120:19
lying 108:1
lyrical 38:16
m
m.d. 57:24 61:6
61:13 81:10
82:23 88:2 92:8
m4 147:14
ma'am 203:2
machinery
165:22
machines 137:3
mae 2:21 9:7
137:12 140:25
140:25 141:5
143:10 201:23
magazine
142:12 157:11
173:3

September 27, 2022

Page 31
magnificent
76:15
main 18:7 50:2,4
maine 5:25 8:20
46:25 47:18
48:1,8,9 49:23
51:5,8 54:18
55:4,12 56:9
59:6,18 69:3
80:19,19,21
90:20 112:10
mainers 55:4
mainstream
154:20
majority 4:16
151:22 186:17
maker 125:20
199:19
making 12:17
54:15 91:19
107:24 142:24
167:24 178:6
186:14 188:12
188:20 198:12
202:10
male 135:18
man 26:11 32:21
39:1 67:9,15
68:1,14 69:23
74:17 78:11
90:13 96:24
112:9 114:16
116:1
man's 111:14
management 2:9
6:21 18:9
manager 2:10
2:10,11,17 7:2,4
7:6,8,19 13:13

manner 145:11
197:7
manpower
170:18,22
mantra 33:18
manufacturing
124:8 149:11
map 23:12
mark 47:24
72:14
marks 37:19
111:23
marquis 10:21
marshall 10:20
martin 98:4
120:19
mary 2:8 5:9
17:20 31:17
40:8 63:18,19
66:15,17 84:1
107:25 111:13
121:11 134:7
151:8,9 158:9
158:12 163:8
168:25 178:11
178:16,17
183:12
mary's 172:1
175:22 176:7
mass 44:1 98:13
massive 98:18
match 159:24
171:4 180:22
181:7 190:22
material 101:18
135:10
materials 94:10
115:9
matter 65:11
68:18,20 93:1

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133:15 154:8
157:18 172:25
194:6 201:21
202:1
matters 9:18
11:6 81:7
mcnutt 170:16
md 57:2
mds 83:11,11
meals 99:17
mean 26:12
65:23 73:8
79:13,17 122:18
126:21,22
128:15,24
151:24 152:1
154:15 160:13
162:6,16 172:25
179:9,11,13,14
198:1
meaning 161:14
means 9:23
27:17 83:23
84:5 122:15
164:11
meant 132:25
133:4 159:19
171:21
measles 108:3
mechanical
76:23 165:1
mechanics
164:25
medal 3:14 5:22
6:2 8:12 9:6
14:22,23 15:1
18:11,14,15
20:24 21:23
25:7 31:10
33:19 34:16

Meeting

[medal - mike]
35:25 41:4 43:4
43:10 44:19
112:15 135:2,7
139:2,6,11
150:13 160:10
160:17 161:6
163:4 168:10
169:23,24
173:17 180:4
183:8,15,18
187:17 195:19
200:3
medal's 182:4
medalist's 34:10
medallic 4:13
medals 14:3,4,17
14:17,21 15:11
16:6 18:19
34:11 39:15,18
39:19,19 97:23
116:18 168:2
174:18,25 180:5
183:15 196:11
media 2:15,16
6:9,10 202:6
medical 49:5
51:11,19,21
53:1,13 54:10
54:11 81:12
medicine 52:13
81:22 82:14
meet 67:5
meeting 1:2,8
3:1,3,5,9,12,16
4:3 5:15,16,20
6:7,16 9:18 14:5
17:14 18:7
64:13,15 124:6
143:14 202:7,21
202:21,23,25

September 27, 2022

Page 32
meetings 64:9
meets 60:13
megan 2:9 6:23
167:23
melding 29:6
member 2:13
3:17 8:8 13:4
14:5,12 49:11
62:17,20 65:5
105:17 107:14
members 3:18
4:4,5 6:6,15
17:16 27:2,13
27:20 36:16
40:22 41:14,17
42:2 50:18 51:2
56:20 64:8,25
65:10 81:20
85:7 90:16,21
103:18 104:14
107:20 114:9
124:15 143:3
150:10 154:24
155:25 156:3
196:13 202:1,7
memory 54:6
170:13
men 135:22
137:7
menacing 165:4
menna 2:11 7:10
7:12 41:19,25
43:13,14,14
60:1,1 62:5,5,16
62:16,24 69:25
69:25 71:21,25
71:25 73:1
85:24 86:7,7,14
88:4 97:12,12
98:24,25 101:16

102:4,9,16,22
127:15 179:7,11
179:13,18 182:1
182:1 196:16,18
196:20,22 197:3
200:18,23,23
mental 21:18
mention 11:1,6
78:7 120:6
147:5
mentioned 26:25
77:14 119:9
132:12 157:5
168:12 173:3
176:21 177:19
177:19 183:5
mentioning
119:18
mentor 87:15
merger 107:1,3
merit 34:13
106:4 125:4,9
178:6
merits 40:22
162:14
mess 70:18
198:24
message 37:24
128:6 160:21
173:10 180:25
messaging
118:25 120:15
175:18
met 135:25
metal 139:4
149:4 152:8
167:10 169:25
177:21
metallic 160:8

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202-857-3376

metals 140:8
metaphor
172:21,25
method 48:13
93:24
methods 94:2
mettalic 2:3
miami 180:10
michael 2:21 9:5
11:8 35:3 70:11
127:9
michelangelo
182:4
microphone
3:20 15:18
36:18 156:10
microphones
28:3 63:9 65:17
65:18 104:22
156:10
microscope 96:4
96:8 98:9
106:17,21,23
112:20 115:9
117:11
microsoft 3:20
middle 78:10
80:5 135:21
midpoint 60:6
mike 2:4,11,15
2:24 4:16 6:9
7:19 8:4,18 21:7
35:6,21 44:8,8
70:12 79:20
85:14,17 99:1
101:11,12 112:2
112:4 114:18
124:20 127:3,5
127:10,11
134:13 156:12

Meeting

[mike - move]
159:12 166:12
176:20 181:23
196:15 201:11
miles 18:25
military 136:13
137:1 185:22
milling 137:2
million 48:17
136:5,6
millions 53:1
mills 54:17
mind 52:14
74:25 96:1
97:11 108:9
115:4 161:4
173:6,6
mindful 74:21
77:12 129:4
minds 10:7
129:13
minimum 72:4,4
72:8,10 136:5
minor 27:10
31:10
minorities
116:19 135:24
minority 2:4,8
4:19 5:9 135:22
135:23
mint 2:8,11,13
3:18 6:4,14 7:10
9:14 11:18,19
12:24,25 14:18
15:2 16:12 18:8
41:4 47:5,10
56:4 64:7,19
82:20 89:9
113:4 117:19
130:6 161:2
198:10 199:10

September 27, 2022

Page 33
200:1 201:12
202:6
minute 17:3
45:2
minutes 5:19
17:13,17 18:4
19:10 27:14
28:6 45:1 65:1
91:2,2,4 104:12
156:1 187:22
202:24
mishear 140:5
mismatching
168:16
mispronouncing
58:12
missed 104:7
152:18 194:15
missing 118:10
mission 146:2
missouri 5:25
9:3 47:19 91:25
93:7,9,17,19
94:21,21 95:13
100:22 103:8
121:16 127:11
mobilizing 53:5
model 18:17
150:20,24 151:4
183:12 193:10
193:11
modeled 97:10
modeling 174:20
models 151:3,6
193:20
modern 48:22
modernist 184:3
modernistic
123:8

modifications
59:11
modify 125:16
mom 87:9
moment 191:17
193:11
momentarily
166:14
moments 90:5
money 13:12
105:9
month 10:17,18
11:7,15
monument 98:5
120:19,20
monumental
86:20
monuments 98:4
moran 2:4 4:16
4:17 35:4,5,6,9
44:11 70:12,12
71:13 101:11,12
101:12 102:1,8
112:3,4 124:12
134:13,14
156:12,13
189:10 191:4
192:7,22 194:10
197:1,4,24
199:9 200:16,20
morning 3:2
12:19 30:25
54:10 140:21
mother 54:12
109:3 138:22
170:13
mothers 136:18
motifs 120:12
motion 17:17
18:3 23:4 34:17

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202-857-3376

34:17 37:18
38:12 40:2,5,14
46:14 92:11,12
92:19 117:21
122:4,12 124:1
124:3,10,19,21
124:24,25
125:20 126:6
129:2,3 130:1,2
133:7,11 150:23
186:21 187:4
189:12,23
190:23,25 191:3
191:7,16,21
192:1,3,24,25
193:4,9 194:3
197:15,18
198:16 199:7,8
199:9,17,19,25
200:11,19 201:8
201:11,16,20
202:13
motion's 190:5
motions 41:17
46:6,15 85:6
91:21 92:19,22
189:1 190:15
191:19 193:1
201:20
motto 20:21
mountain 19:1
120:21
mounted 19:13
mouth 26:16
move 17:4 45:5
46:16 49:19
56:21 66:6 88:6
92:6 95:24
98:22 107:17
114:20 138:13

Meeting

[move - notary]
143:2,11 145:5
189:15 191:4
200:1
moved 92:24
171:14,15
202:15
movement 38:12
136:3,3 168:7
moves 17:18
155:12
moving 23:19
24:18 54:25
57:9 99:5 115:6
119:5 144:10
147:4,24 188:17
multiple 19:1,1
19:15 71:23
123:22 138:3
murdered 51:2
muscles 153:15
museological
13:19
museum 13:12
183:6
music 10:22
54:7
mute 3:19 86:12
n
n 2:1
name 3:22 4:6
6:17 28:4 60:7
62:4,10,13
65:18 71:3 74:6
74:18 75:21
77:18,19,22
80:21 81:10,10
88:8 100:23
101:3 103:24
104:22 106:5,9
111:15 115:17

September 27, 2022

Page 34
121:15 134:5
148:21 156:11
165:12 182:14
183:1
named 153:2
names 72:15
naming 59:22
narrator 155:10
narrow 188:10
nathan 10:4
nation 18:16
136:9 141:9
144:3 158:21
nation's 16:3
165:6
national 14:17
39:19
nations 19:2
53:4
native 13:25
nature 37:16
39:20
nay 192:6
202:19
nays 92:15
133:10 194:2
200:15
nazi 48:10
near 76:8 148:13
159:8
neat 87:20 109:1
necessarily 80:1
110:1 123:23
125:2 153:25
186:14 187:7
necessary 38:23
119:12 155:22
195:1,10,22
196:3

need 9:14 34:12
37:25 49:16
55:25 59:19,20
63:24 65:3 67:1
71:6 73:21
77:23 83:2
99:20 104:4
105:8 107:11
116:22,23 118:2
122:3 130:13
131:5 132:25
139:7,21 164:17
168:12,14
178:12 180:17
184:20 195:6,22
198:5,5 199:2
needed 115:1
133:1 146:17
166:18
needs 107:1
112:12 115:4
139:16 197:2
negative 62:18
71:5 79:22
111:18 175:5
neither 130:4
204:12 205:9
nerd 193:20
nested 72:15
net 194:22
201:12
never 30:6 70:2
97:24,24 98:16
99:2 101:21
108:6 112:23
118:21 137:4
157:1 184:4
197:18
new 13:7 48:13
48:21 64:9

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

94:11 100:18
122:4 124:5
126:4 130:8
135:25 148:18
180:9
news 2:15 6:9
nice 29:6,14,15
38:17 77:15,17
78:14 95:18,19
115:23 119:12
162:19 163:20
163:25 167:25
180:14
nicely 80:12
168:22,23
198:23
niece 139:16
night 156:23
nine 23:5 31:11
45:14,18,25
146:21 149:22
151:3 165:2
179:23,23,24
180:1,2 183:23
188:16,17,19,23
ninth 10:17
nitrate 93:24
nitrogen 94:2
nobel 49:10 53:6
non 19:11 51:13
94:11 120:17
normal 186:12
normally 168:19
norman 182:7
north 13:6 23:25
northeast 9:23
nose 193:12
notary 1:13
204:1,23

Meeting

[note - occupations]
note 3:5 21:22
22:8 49:14
55:21 57:19
58:4 73:15
99:19 100:21
130:15 144:3
147:8 183:17
noted 62:6 104:4
notes 64:12
139:3
notice 3:10 67:8
103:25
noticed 118:18
noting 30:2
notion 102:10
110:1
noun 168:10
november
202:22
nowadays 89:13
nuclear 49:9,13
52:22 53:1,3,5
nudged 136:1
number 9:24
10:18 23:6,10
29:12,20,25
30:5,13 31:20
31:24,25 32:4,5
32:7,21 33:1,2
33:15,17 34:15
34:21,23 35:16
35:16 37:21
40:6,10 43:24
45:14,15,16,17
45:18 62:2,3
66:9,13,18,24
66:25 67:9
68:24 69:5 71:1
71:2,8 74:23
75:17 77:10,16

September 27, 2022

Page 35
77:17,19 78:2
79:8,13,21 80:8
80:14 83:9,13
83:18 90:11
95:9 103:23
104:1,2 109:5
109:19,19 110:3
111:11 112:5
113:10,21 114:2
114:22 115:22
116:3,5 117:1
118:18 120:7
121:2,9,10,10
121:11,13,19
122:10,11 125:6
126:21 127:6
129:3,4 137:11
137:18,19 140:3
142:21,22
151:19 159:13
159:16,17,17
163:9,16 167:5
172:2,2,10
173:8,25 174:1
174:7 175:10,24
177:5 178:18
179:23 182:3
183:23 185:15
186:16,17
188:16 189:19
189:20,21 194:9
numerous 13:19
13:23 15:10
59:23,24 137:6
numismatic 2:6
4:25 13:4,7,11
numismatics 2:5
4:22 11:14
numismatists
13:16

nutrients 94:1
114:1
nutritious 99:17
nw 1:10
o
oath 53:8
object 160:8
174:21 197:17
objected 198:8
objection 18:4
187:12 194:16
objections 18:3
194:2
objects 103:23
observation
150:16 169:1
198:18
observers 79:11
80:2 110:7
obtrusive 197:7
obverse 18:9
20:11 21:2,3
22:8,13,14,18
22:22,25 23:4
23:13,14 26:13
28:23 31:2,3,11
32:5 33:2,21
34:15 35:13,14
36:2,3,10 37:4,4
37:9,17 38:10
38:12,15 39:24
39:25 40:2,12
40:13 41:22
42:16,18 43:1,3
44:17 45:14,15
45:16,17,18,19
45:21,21 47:22
65:23 70:5
87:21 91:14,15
91:15,16,16,17

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

91:17,18 135:1
137:23 138:3,4
138:4,5,5,8
140:2,5 143:14
143:15,15 144:4
144:6,8,11,18
145:5,6,14,15
145:21 146:4,10
146:21 148:8
153:21 156:14
157:6,20 159:1
160:19 161:16
162:4 163:3,8
165:16 166:3,7
166:11 167:2
168:3,4,5,13,17
168:18,20,24
169:14,18 170:4
170:4 172:3
173:10,22 175:1
175:10 176:19
178:7,10 180:1
180:2,17,20
181:1,5,5,11,17
186:15 187:16
188:11,12,13
189:4,4,17,23
191:6,18 193:5
197:6 198:19,25
obverses 143:18
146:10 147:24
148:20 158:13
162:1
obvious 143:18
158:22
obviously 56:11
172:24
occupations
172:8

Meeting

[occupies - paired]
occupies 88:5
occurred 66:5
odd 43:20
194:25
oddly 118:15
offer 39:23 44:9
124:25 125:13
126:8
offered 187:13
offers 143:14
office 2:9,21,24
6:20 8:4 9:4
18:8 49:23 50:3
91:25 94:22,24
100:25 103:23
105:13 121:7
132:24 133:20
152:6
office's 109:20
officer 112:16
204:3
official 13:16
officially 196:7
offset 24:11
offsets 113:25
oftentimes 82:14
oh 25:16 86:14
179:13 185:18
189:10 196:22
okay 17:2,9
31:18 50:10,11
50:12,17 55:9
57:3,9 85:12,12
98:21 99:5
103:17 104:6
108:1 110:5
125:15 137:24
137:25 139:23
140:14 141:20
145:4 155:18

September 27, 2022

Page 36
164:22,24 188:9
190:5,13 191:4
191:10,22
192:16,16,23
193:8,24 195:17
197:4 199:22,24
200:10 202:17
old 99:8 108:3
116:16 151:12
151:16,19,22
olsen 2:19 8:23
8:24 50:5,10
54:22 55:2 90:3
92:25
olympic 18:22
27:8
once 91:12
104:10 134:24
one's 52:7
oneness 107:3
ones 86:22
141:11
onward 193:14
open 48:20 66:1
105:16 107:13
136:1 162:17
184:18 191:10
opened 185:23
opening 67:20
operated 137:2
operating 109:2
operation 58:20
opinion 15:13
63:3 106:19
202:19
opinions 133:1
opportunities
116:21 136:1
opportunity
15:23 16:13

41:4 50:19
90:10 126:20
129:16 143:2
180:25
oppose 201:19
opposed 46:13
56:15 59:22
81:11 82:15
184:1 192:16
opposing 70:20
optimism 53:25
option 71:16
72:22,23 117:19
189:3 198:10
options 55:1
71:23 95:24
102:14,16
order 3:2 12:12
46:17 93:3
127:24 178:13
186:25 197:13
197:13 202:4
orders 182:16
organic 100:16
115:14
organization
52:25 53:6
organizations
13:20
oriented 40:14
original 29:19
97:4 130:16
138:23 189:8,10
originally 65:22
156:15
origins 183:9
ought 113:3
outcome 204:17
205:14

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

outcomes 52:3
outdoor 36:23
outer 24:15 99:8
outlier 31:19
32:6 68:5
outline 78:12
outlined 171:4
outside 111:2
127:13
outstanding
34:20
outward 23:1
overall 19:21
80:13 95:16
175:18
overarching
152:2
overlapped
16:15
overlapping
99:23
overseas 137:8
overstep 128:24
overstepped
107:12
overstepping
105:15
owens 10:24
owning 117:6
p
p.m. 1:7
pacemakers
48:23
paddles 58:2,9
pair 149:9,14
161:22 180:17
198:18,19
paired 160:21
160:22,23,25

Meeting

[pairings - phenomenal]
pairings 161:24
pairs 180:21
pam 2:17 7:4
pandemic 14:6
panel 133:9
paneling 176:2
panels 149:21,24
161:8 174:3
paper 87:9
parent's 108:2
parson's 91:25
part 15:24 16:2
16:3 77:23
82:24 84:15
86:1 98:12
115:24 127:21
128:6 130:16
140:23 141:5
171:11
partially 98:17
participate
15:22 33:9
participated
44:16 133:20
participating
3:19 4:2 18:2
44:22 90:22
187:20
participation
16:3
particular 28:16
38:13 58:25
88:6 105:4,5
115:18 119:11
160:12 170:12
183:14 185:4
particularly
25:20 26:9 33:8
33:23 34:14,15
34:20,23 35:14

September 27, 2022

Page 37

35:25 36:2,4
38:2 79:9
parties 204:13
204:16 205:10
205:13
parts 10:1
115:21
pass 43:7 110:19
114:8
passed 30:3
46:14 133:11
139:1
passes 92:19
200:19
passion 42:25
54:5
passionate 54:12
passionately
67:13
passive 173:18
patch 148:21
patent 52:10
73:10
patience 12:8
17:11 64:8 85:4
patient 52:3
57:11 58:14
patients 48:24
52:13,15
patriot 10:4
patriots 10:21
pattern 9:17
paul 2:16 6:10
170:16
pause 17:25 90:5
138:1
pausing 166:15
pavement 22:17
pay 76:11

peace 49:10 51:5
53:6
peanut 99:24
100:18
peanuts 93:25
94:15 96:3
99:24 100:9,14
100:16 106:22
113:25 119:1,3
119:3
pearl 136:10
pearson 9:5
peas 93:25
pencils 9:25
pension 183:25
people 15:23
37:11,24 52:21
68:8,9 73:21
83:20,21 86:23
87:13 105:7,23
105:24,25
131:12 132:15
159:11 160:4,8
162:1 163:6,7
163:24 168:6
169:3 177:13
185:13,18
people's 90:10
181:3
peoples 172:6
perceive 108:16
performed
182:18
period 104:2
151:4 156:6
180:6,12
periodization
171:20
persecution
48:10

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

person 11:2
44:21 49:18
56:3 64:8,15
67:22,22,24
73:9 110:19
153:2 165:18
personal 10:25
20:8,21 39:19
39:20 51:10
73:14 170:15
personally 43:17
personifies
19:22
personnel 15:2
perspective
39:18 89:17
127:17 128:17
131:24
perspectives
131:21,22
pertaining 11:5
peter 2:6 4:25
33:4,6 64:16
78:21,23 109:9
109:11 111:4
134:9 150:15
155:19 157:21
159:14 160:24
174:14,16
191:13,25 193:3
peter's 111:16
ph 180:10 182:7
183:16
phalanx 146:24
phd 81:13
phds 83:4
phenomenal
12:6 41:15
129:15 177:25

Meeting

[philadelphia - portraits]
philadelphia
11:18 12:23
philip 2:20 9:3
phillip 91:24
94:22
phone 3:20
photograph
162:7,8,9,11
189:9
photographer
157:8,8 166:13
phrase 147:22
166:25
phyllis 2:22 9:9
137:14 138:20
physician 81:21
81:21 82:22
87:4 89:5,16
physicians 49:12
52:24 53:3,16
83:1,21
pick 34:14 65:7
65:8 70:13 84:7
109:8
picked 108:4
picking 28:24
169:5
picture 42:6
65:24 81:24,24
157:11 166:14
175:8
piece 35:13
113:17,17
183:16
pieces 26:3
pierson 2:21
pill 82:15
pinch 102:12
pinnacle 20:1

pioneer 48:6
52:1
place 18:24 57:8
68:2,15 71:10
78:16 81:9
116:12 163:13
163:15 178:23
179:4 190:21
202:23
placement 40:9
146:24
plane 162:19
167:6 179:2
184:22
planes 149:16
planet 52:23
87:13
plant 99:7 100:2
planted 42:11
plants 59:21
99:25 115:8,19
plates 158:2
167:10
platinum 11:20
play 103:1
107:23
pleasant 15:1
please 3:5 4:5
6:16 10:24
15:15 27:21
36:16 37:3
64:25 65:11
74:7 84:19
88:21 99:19
100:21 103:21
104:11,15
105:10 106:13
126:12 130:12
133:2 134:4
141:19 150:17

September 27, 2022

Page 38
155:25 164:14
189:14 192:11
194:14 197:12
201:9
pleased 15:4
16:20 55:5 78:6
80:18 109:18
pleasing 70:14
95:18 115:25
156:17,17 165:3
pleasure 8:13
15:21 16:17
plenty 71:4
101:18
plural 154:13
plus 169:10
point 10:25 25:9
27:22 29:18
30:5 33:11,22
84:25 89:6
91:19 97:1
102:13 108:17
117:21 119:10
132:8 133:12
155:5 167:11
181:10 186:25
189:6 197:12,13
198:15
pointed 40:7,13
42:3 66:21
89:13 108:25
183:10 194:6
pointing 30:13
173:25
points 45:14,15
45:16,17,18,20
45:22,24,24,25
46:2,4 74:12,23
78:15 91:13
113:23 178:9

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

179:20 182:2
188:11,19
politics 121:8
polka 144:14,20
149:19
popping 201:2
popular 153:4
population 16:4
portfolio 3:15
22:12 30:4
34:13 39:4
40:20 43:17
49:1,15,20 76:9
79:7 80:9 96:15
98:22 105:14
109:12,21 110:3
118:12 125:5
130:18 131:2
143:3,11 156:19
167:17,25
176:10 177:25
portfolios 13:23
portion 71:21
86:4 136:19
portrait 22:23
55:13 56:22
58:19,25 68:18
70:5,7 75:23
77:24 85:22,25
86:15,17 110:17
116:24 117:2
119:13,20
120:17 123:1,2
123:3,10,12,13
123:18 128:19
128:20 129:12
portraits 63:25
77:1 80:10 86:8
123:8 145:22
172:13 174:18

Meeting

[portraits - probably]
174:22,24 177:1
portray 57:10
portrayal
109:24
portrayed
109:17 110:6
111:9 175:17
193:10
posed 177:1
position 31:21
128:23 142:10
199:15
positioned 94:6
149:9
possibilities
117:25
possibility
127:14 154:16
possible 38:21
45:20 48:20
57:1 59:14
91:13 188:11
196:14
post 173:5 182:8
poster 153:11,14
154:2
posters 153:7
potato 100:1,1
106:22
potatoes 94:15
96:3
potential 73:9
122:23 168:17
169:24
potentially
136:5
pound 123:5
pov 87:2
powered 136:25

September 27, 2022

Page 39

powering
145:24
practice 52:12
practices 99:13
practicing 52:18
pray 68:4
precisely 116:12
predecessors
12:5
preeminent
18:23
preface 78:24
prefer 3:8 38:18
67:9 81:9 106:5
113:13 171:7
preference
23:20 25:18
26:6,6,12 32:4
49:24 55:22
66:9,24,25
74:22 75:18
80:8,13 94:24
104:1 110:11
123:16 138:6
140:18 145:16
147:6,19 148:19
158:13,17
174:23 175:2,10
preferences 21:1
22:10 39:21
137:23 138:3,9
138:14 139:25
140:2 143:12,13
144:5,25 146:21
147:5 158:14
171:3 180:24
181:3
preferred 23:14
24:9 31:24
66:18 74:15

137:19
prefers 77:13
prepared 13:18
145:19 198:3
205:4
presence 134:4
present 2:15,18
4:6,8,11,14,17
4:20,23 5:1,4,7
5:10 6:17,19,22
6:25 7:3,5,7,9
7:12,18,21,24
8:9 14:9 15:4
16:13 18:9
44:25 45:11
46:22 58:7
91:10 93:5
95:12 134:6,8
134:10,12,16,18
134:20,22,25
140:1 188:7
presentation
5:16 12:13,18
115:15
presented 3:16
42:18 47:17,19
112:4 126:4
presents 58:18
preserve 53:8
preserving
100:6
presidential
10:13
press 6:6 11:18
138:3
pressure 121:6
prestigious
19:12
pretty 26:11,19
36:6 74:7 121:2

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

142:24 163:4
169:18 173:5
177:18
prevention
49:12 53:3
previous 23:7
47:23 62:6
previously 57:4
57:18 140:17
166:23
prichard 154:5
primarily 175:1
primary 62:8
94:6 127:18
principle 20:9
printout 70:16
prior 13:9 16:19
65:2 69:17
104:13 156:2
204:6
pritchard 2:22
9:10 137:15
140:21 141:20
143:6 151:15
152:1,21,24
154:12,15 155:3
155:16 184:15
184:16 186:6
201:24
privilege 11:1
16:1 105:2
126:9 128:24
171:11
privy 47:24
prize 49:11 53:7
probably 8:15
11:13 12:9 60:8
71:9 82:13 84:1
84:21 88:6
108:2,13,15

Meeting

[probably - question]
109:20 112:22
116:5 121:13,17
122:13 174:18
178:3,8,9,12,15
181:17
problem 84:15
177:12,12
problems 79:22
procedure 16:2
proceed 55:9
150:17
proceeding 17:7
45:8 91:6
133:24 188:4
203:4 205:6
proceedings 6:4
204:4,6,7,10
205:7
process 92:3
100:19 124:8
187:15
produce 99:8,23
produced 11:11
14:17 123:21,23
123:25
producing 93:24
product 174:2
production
11:19 100:19
150:20,25 157:9
157:13,17 169:7
193:13
products 94:15
173:19
professional
19:19 52:21
136:21
professionally
11:24

September 27, 2022

Page 40

professions
143:22
professor
116:23
profile 32:16
37:13 40:3
55:13 58:19
87:11,14,17
101:20 115:6
174:24
profiles 143:19
144:12 175:8
profit 52:10
73:10
profound
161:11
profoundly 51:3
136:2
program 3:21
14:2 25:5 27:21
27:24 47:3,22
51:8 53:14 56:3
59:5 65:11,13
67:18 69:10,12
69:16,17 101:9
104:15 130:17
130:19,22 131:6
135:5 137:11
150:12 156:4
prohibited
85:21
project 36:20
63:14 65:3,5
95:6 138:25
148:4 175:19
projecting 23:1
proliferation
49:9
prominent 60:9
115:18

promise 104:18
promising 107:9
promotion 100:5
prop 106:18
properly 14:7
proposals 14:15
26:17 198:2
propose 190:10
prospective
86:23 110:4
protect 53:8
protective
142:23
protested 51:20
proud 55:4 69:4
proudly 116:17
proven 130:10
provide 72:8
76:17 107:20
provided 10:11
15:6 81:19
135:14
providing 13:22
135:9
public 1:13 2:2,6
3:7,24 4:1,7 5:3
5:12,15,17 6:7
12:14 14:10,11
14:13,19 15:4
17:14 18:12
41:3,8 42:3 47:3
48:6 49:6 53:16
53:18 73:16
82:12 83:7
84:17 105:22
107:24 132:19
135:5 164:23
202:2,6 204:1
204:23

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

publication
13:16
published 3:10
publishing 2:17
6:12
pull 122:3
130:14 185:25
pun 73:25
punches 130:14
purpose 187:1,3
190:2
pursue 126:20
purview 39:17
put 26:16 31:22
38:16 62:12
77:22 106:9
112:5 159:15
161:18,19
164:15 179:4
184:18 196:19
196:21 199:3
putting 115:8
120:17 122:20
q
qualifications
77:14
qualified 2:3,3,5
2:6 4:9,12,21,24
13:4 204:8
quarter 14:2
40:3
quarters 130:17
131:8
question 9:13
25:9,13,21,25
46:10 61:2,24
62:1,2 75:11
84:9,11 126:18
131:23 132:2
151:10,14 154:7

Meeting

[question - receptivity]
154:24 158:25
164:13 178:18
180:2 183:8
189:7 191:14
193:16 194:13
195:24 196:8
198:3 200:16
201:7
questions 21:8
22:4 25:4 26:22
27:20 49:22
50:6 56:19 59:4
59:10 63:17
65:10 83:20
84:4,17,19
85:13 89:25
95:22 101:8
103:9,15 104:9
104:14 143:3
150:11 156:3,7
202:9
quick 26:1,3
41:21 69:11
132:10 134:2
quite 73:22 76:3
77:1,2 78:8
79:20 84:15
104:8 109:12
120:11 126:17
139:5,17 175:12
175:23 176:1
178:4
quorum 5:14
134:24
quota 51:12
quotation 29:13
31:10
quote 24:3,7,17
38:19 78:11
117:17 135:11

September 27, 2022

Page 41
r

r07 157:6
r1 165:18
r5 157:21
r7 157:6,6
race 19:12 23:5
23:11 42:7,9
races 23:24
141:8 144:2
148:6 150:1,6
158:22 159:10
164:18 172:6
racial 173:13
racist 51:17
radical 196:24
railroaded 22:2
raised 79:14
84:23 88:12
100:13 119:1
154:11 180:2
192:11
raising 102:10
ralph 69:22
range 83:22
159:4,11
ranges 19:1
raw 94:9
reached 20:1
reaching 64:11
reaction 111:6
121:2
read 24:8 54:9
83:17 106:16
108:5 117:9,9
117:10,11,11,18
readable 178:14
reader 117:8
readily 60:18
87:11

reading 54:11
109:1 117:17
readout 60:6
reads 146:16
179:21
ready 3:15
real 26:1,2 69:11
111:14,19 163:6
174:1 179:3
reality 53:22
172:20
realized 156:20
really 16:6 22:1
26:14 28:11,19
28:21 29:5,20
33:9 34:20 36:5
37:4,7,20 38:1
38:11 54:21
64:7,22 66:1,20
70:18 71:7 73:7
73:8,13,23
75:25 76:16,22
76:24 80:9 82:5
82:21 83:5,15
87:19,20 88:24
90:9,25 92:3
95:7,9,13 97:9
97:22 98:15
101:1 102:12
108:25 109:14
109:17,18,22,25
110:9,14 111:7
113:3 116:15
119:14,15 120:7
120:8 121:19
122:3 123:3
129:10 133:21
139:13,18 140:9
140:22 160:22
160:24 161:11

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

161:23 164:20
165:2,12,17,19
169:25 172:2,9
173:1,7,20
175:1,11,13
178:4,22 180:24
184:10,16,18,20
185:4,7 186:5
197:18 201:1,25
reappointed
13:3
rearranged
107:12
reason 74:14,23
92:22 100:24
116:4 119:17
129:19 130:13
158:25 171:10
reasonably
172:1 187:21
reasons 74:4
80:25 114:12
116:4 119:16
120:8 121:14
123:25 129:20
166:10,22 171:7
received 30:17
44:23 45:14,15
45:16,17,18,19
45:23,24,25
46:1,3,4 90:20
90:23 91:14,15
91:15,16,17,17
91:18,18,19
93:18 120:25
187:20
receptive 89:11
receptivity
186:23

Meeting

[recessed - remotely]
recessed 133:17
140:10
recipes 99:17
100:18
recipient 14:24
recognition
12:16 18:15
135:12
recognize 45:10
59:8 83:2,18
89:12 91:9
101:11 188:6
recognized 16:9
27:23 52:14
65:12 104:17
recognizes 14:11
recognizing 89:4
recommend
56:5 61:17,21
72:9 82:20
190:9
recommendati...
23:15,21 24:10
49:25 55:23
68:14 72:23
96:11 103:3
130:25 147:7,20
170:3 186:19
195:19 197:22
198:22
recommendati...
22:11 158:8
202:10
recommended
2:4,7,8 4:15,18
5:5,8 49:15
55:24 58:4 92:7
99:19 138:8,12
144:6,9

September 27, 2022

Page 42
recommending
54:18 193:5
reconsider
125:5
reconsidering
132:20
reconvene
133:22
record 6:13 11:1
22:3 26:24
69:20 71:15
85:20 140:1
179:21 199:16
199:22 204:10
205:7
recorded 3:5
134:3 204:7
recording 204:9
205:5
recruited 135:22
recruiting
170:19
recruitment
135:19
redesigning
128:16
reduce 27:1
reduced 204:8
reduction 82:10
178:12
reenter 64:8
refer 3:8
references
101:19 146:1
referred 118:20
135:11
referring 165:9
182:5,6
reflected 21:1

reflects 90:12
refrain 27:21
65:11 104:15
refugee 50:25
refused 51:16
52:9
regard 129:25
201:11
regarded 15:11
regarding 85:16
89:9 95:8
regardless 43:15
regimented
169:8
register 3:11
regret 10:5
regular 13:14
56:24
regularness
66:23
regulations
136:15
reimagined
107:11
reinforce 138:14
155:4
reinforcing 23:4
reinstated 51:21
reiterate 42:14
95:7 199:4
reject 124:3
125:9,17
rejecting 125:25
176:16
relabeling 51:18
related 11:6
176:15,18 177:6
204:12 205:9
relating 14:15
49:22

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

relationship
131:20
relative 204:15
205:12
relatively 79:16
relatives 163:14
release 11:19
relevance
154:19,20
relevant 40:25
relief 161:7
remain 47:23
59:17
remarkable
67:22,25 68:8
68:25 96:6
remarks 110:25
111:17
remedied 101:16
102:23 104:5
remember 9:24
65:3 74:6 87:7
105:22 108:1
130:16 155:9
remembered
112:14
remind 3:17,24
27:13 39:14
57:7 64:25
104:11 155:25
reminded 30:14
70:2
reminder 15:1
28:5 74:5 134:3
202:1
reminds 172:11
remiss 10:15
11:6
remotely 2:15
2:18 3:19 6:6

Meeting

[remove - reverse]
remove 138:11
195:2
removed 57:5,19
59:12 77:21
144:10 201:14
renaissance
86:21 183:8,15
rendered 99:3
repair 19:16
repeat 14:19
26:1,2 88:20
139:24
replace 62:10
127:11
replicas 41:5
report 68:12,13
203:2
reported 1:13
reporter 28:1
36:18 65:16
104:20 156:8
represent 54:18
100:17 129:23
139:9 143:21
144:12 145:6,17
145:21 146:5,11
146:22 149:10
representation
22:20 24:2
29:14 79:24,25
82:2 112:7
116:15,24 128:8
131:16
representative
8:18 21:7 50:7
50:21 132:23
133:19
representatives
49:25 133:3

September 27, 2022

Page 43
represented
56:11
representing 2:2
2:6 4:7 5:2,12
23:10 141:15
144:16,19
145:23 147:15
148:3 173:12
represents 9:21
56:22 99:11
republican
183:21
request 60:24
97:13,21 126:3
142:16
requested 14:25
138:10
required 55:10
74:16 94:19
195:11,13,14
requirement
49:17 56:2
130:25 131:11
requirements
60:13 74:25
requires 47:5
130:23
requiring 154:9
research 48:11
51:23 83:10
reserve 103:13
resident 32:12
residents 54:11
resistance
135:25
resolve 200:2
resounding
25:18 26:7
resources 20:3
170:22

respect 28:22
35:10 36:9
37:20 39:20
70:8 82:23 85:2
105:11 133:7
178:14
respected 15:12
respond 4:5
responsibility
52:25 53:9
responsible 27:5
48:16 170:19
rest 98:22
123:16 156:19
157:23 174:23
resting 147:12
restored 94:2
restriction
151:11
result 27:11
147:2 157:2
158:7
results 45:1,12
91:10 188:8
resuscitation
48:21
retain 71:20
97:3
return 31:16
86:13 197:14
returning 9:23
18:6 85:5
reunion 80:20
reveal 96:3
revered 93:13
reverse 5:23
18:10 20:15,20
21:2,4 22:9
23:19,22 24:1,5
24:8,9,18,22

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

25:20 26:9,14
29:8 31:2,5 32:6
32:24 33:1,22
33:23 34:21,21
34:23 35:15,15
36:7,11 37:20
37:21 38:2,17
38:19,24 42:16
42:19 44:18
45:23,24,25,25
46:2,3,3,4,23
47:6 70:14
85:11 87:21
90:18 92:8 93:5
135:1 138:7,7
138:12 139:11
139:13 140:16
140:17 141:18
141:20,25 142:3
145:2,3 147:6,9
147:11 148:9
149:1,7,13,18
149:21 150:2,21
151:5 153:23
157:20 158:6
159:17 160:23
161:15,20,21,22
162:2,3,18,21
162:23 163:21
165:15 166:21
167:13,14 168:3
168:5,9,18,25
168:25 169:14
169:21,21 170:4
170:5 172:22
173:8,24 175:12
175:24 177:10
177:15 178:8,14
179:23,24
180:18,21 181:2

Meeting

[reverse - rosie]
181:12,18
182:13 184:21
185:2,12 186:16
187:16 188:18
189:17,24 191:5
191:6,18 193:5
197:6 198:19
reverses 45:23
143:17 147:4
148:9,20 150:18
150:19,22 151:2
159:12 168:13
172:19 175:11
177:10 188:18
reverting 123:18
review 3:12,15
5:20,22,25
17:12 21:11
49:20 83:7
203:1
reviewed 13:25
14:23
reviewing 20:12
105:2 202:2
revised 138:11
revision 97:6
120:11
revisit 101:23
revolutionary
39:16
revote 180:22
181:4
rewind 180:8
reworking 96:13
rhythm 56:24
rhythms 48:14
48:25
richmond
138:24

September 27, 2022

Page 44
rid 177:11
rider 38:25
rider's 183:18
riding 22:15
23:16 34:18
43:19,21
rifle 145:12
right 41:20 43:6
57:12 66:21
67:15,16 68:1
68:14,20,22
71:1 72:12
86:18 97:17
99:5 100:17
102:20,21,23,23
109:2 112:12
113:15,24 115:6
117:9 121:16
123:1,18 124:23
125:23 126:2
138:1,2 139:17
139:20 154:5
157:10,12
159:21 161:17
162:8 163:19
164:10 169:12
181:21 183:9,17
183:22 185:14
192:22,23 198:4
198:17
rights 39:23
136:2,3
ring 147:16
rings 24:22
risk 51:11
rivera 205:3,20
rivet 144:22
145:18 146:13
147:13 148:1,12
149:10 159:20

159:25 169:2,12
175:20,22 176:8
177:12 178:24
179:4,11,13
182:13,21,24,25
riveted 146:15
149:4,21,24
158:2 161:8
riveter 2:21,23
6:3 9:7,8,10,11
135:3,12,15
137:13,15,16
141:7 142:13
143:24 144:1,18
145:14,20 146:3
146:8 147:3,23
148:21,23
149:20 150:14
151:11 152:4,12
152:25 153:2,5
153:9,16 154:13
154:22 155:8
157:3 166:20
170:15 173:4
176:11,14
177:17 179:15
182:13,23 183:2
187:18 201:3
riveters 154:10
154:21
riveting 176:18
177:15,20
rivets 136:23
144:23 146:7
147:17 148:15
148:22 165:21
172:23 174:3
176:2,15 177:14
179:2,7,15

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

ro3 139:6,13
140:9
road 24:12
robert 2:13 5:17
8:7 12:15 13:2
15:5,16,18
16:11 28:9,11
robin 2:3 4:13
38:7,10 40:7
63:5,10 64:16
74:8,10 78:7
114:20,22
121:14 134:15
166:5,6 167:22
168:12 174:2
192:13,14 195:3
195:4
robin's 64:6
robyn 78:10
rockwell's 182:8
rod 58:11
rodin 86:16
rodin's 86:4,8
rog 72:12
roger 2:10 7:6
72:1,1
role 18:17 27:10
49:2 110:14
124:18
roles 9:19
107:22 172:15
roll 134:2
roman 183:11
room 1:11 36:19
65:4 131:13
rosie 2:21,22 6:3
9:7,8,9,11 135:3
135:11,15
137:13,15,16
140:25 141:7

Meeting

[rosie - scott]
142:13 143:24
144:1,17 145:1
145:10,13,18,20
146:3,8 147:3
147:11,23,25
148:21,22
149:19 150:13
151:11,20,25
152:4,11,19,20
152:25 153:2,4
153:9,16,20,24
154:21,21 155:8
157:3 166:20
170:15 173:4
176:10,14
177:16 182:13
182:23 183:1
187:18 201:3
rosie's 143:20
144:12,17,18
145:6,17,24
146:5,11,12,21
147:2,16 148:8
148:10 149:12
150:3 151:1,6
151:19
rosies 154:9,13
154:13
rotation 93:23
100:6,10,16
106:8,10 108:24
109:13 110:2,16
111:25 112:8
113:23 115:24
119:2 121:12
round 17:1
55:20 86:4,8
159:20
rounds 54:10
100:12

September 27, 2022

Page 45
rule 33:15,17
rules 33:13
197:19
running 137:9
rural 100:8
russell 7:8
ryder 14:25
s
s 2:1
sacrificing 19:5
safe 162:13,13
203:3
safety 136:15
sake 3:7 66:7
salad 158:18
salman 134:15
134:16 166:6,6
192:15
salmon 2:3 4:13
4:14 38:8,9,10
63:5,5,16 74:8,9
74:10,12 114:21
114:22 169:12
195:3,3,5,11,17
195:21
salute 27:9
sam 2:2 4:7
35:18,21 39:11
65:20,22 113:7
113:10 119:10
119:17,21
134:19 162:25
163:2
samuel 10:21
sanctioned
196:7
sarah 2:22 9:10
137:15 140:20
143:9 151:13
152:25 184:15

201:24
satellite 53:11
satisfactory
121:5
saturday 156:22
173:5 182:8
save 148:6 150:1
150:6
saved 42:24 69:1
69:1 160:24
saving 122:9
saw 32:12 38:3
119:3,4,4,5
120:16 176:11
saying 6:16
17:22 78:3 83:3
105:16 108:18
112:14 116:11
117:5,15 119:22
122:15 128:23
158:20 181:15
197:21
says 71:1 84:9
141:7
scarcini 190:24
191:12 192:24
199:24 200:1
scarinci 2:5 4:19
25:8,12,15,16
25:17 26:4,21
34:7,7 42:22
61:24 62:1,2,12
67:13 69:8 70:4
70:9 71:14
114:11 121:23
121:25,25
133:12 160:3,6
160:6 179:20
180:1 189:12,15
189:21,25 190:3

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

190:7 193:16
199:13,20
scarinici 4:20
scarves 160:14
scenes 70:6
scheduled
202:22
schematic
149:20
scholars 53:14
53:19
school 9:23 48:7
51:12,19,21
53:15 73:16,19
school's 93:22
science 51:24
100:4 111:23
120:24
scientific 78:1
83:10 96:5
scientist 11:8
51:23 94:12
96:18 105:7
108:12 128:2
scientists 83:9
scooch 88:7
score 44:17,20
45:3 57:6 90:17
91:13
scorer 45:20
46:2
scores 91:14
scoresheet 44:25
90:21 187:19
scoring 45:2,12
45:13 57:8,20
91:10 187:2,3
187:16 188:8
scott 120:1

Meeting

[screen - settled]
screen 139:20
142:7
sculpted 43:25
97:10
sculptor 70:5
120:2
sculptural 98:13
sculpture 2:3
4:13 70:6 87:1
98:14
seamlessly
155:12
search 52:2
seated 182:5
seattle 171:13
second 17:19,20
18:1 19:4 34:8
36:15 51:2 61:2
92:9,11 93:2
124:11,12,20
138:1 142:20
159:7 189:18
190:1,21,23,24
191:1,3,8,9
193:15,18,22,24
197:8,9 200:5,7
200:8,10 201:15
seconds 202:16
secretary 5:19
11:16 14:14
17:14 47:5,13
49:15 55:25
202:25
secretary's
14:22
see 20:15 29:12
31:12 33:19
37:12,14,15
43:18 49:1
52:13 55:5,6

September 27, 2022

Page 46
56:5 57:6 61:3
61:13 67:2,2,6
68:7 75:24 86:4
86:7,14,16,25
97:7 101:20
106:7,19 108:10
111:8,12 113:16
113:19 114:5,9
114:14 117:19
120:15 122:4
123:4 128:7
131:15 132:14
132:14,15
138:16,25 139:2
140:12 141:25
143:14 146:19
152:13 155:21
157:16 160:4,7
162:5,14 164:16
164:18,22,24
167:25 172:4,5
172:7 177:16
178:25 180:9,20
181:6,24 187:14
189:16 199:1
200:4
seeing 9:16 38:2
46:15 74:2 87:5
105:23 106:21
106:24 112:19
142:7 170:2
192:2 200:12
201:16 203:3
seen 96:23
113:20 146:18
179:3 183:21
sees 89:15
132:19
segregated
51:16

select 110:9
selected 18:22
26:14 31:2
41:22 42:6,19
42:24 56:14
81:5 150:22
180:21
selection 32:20
34:10 35:2
43:16 95:8
109:20
selections 31:14
33:10,21 35:7
35:10 110:3
self 32:23
sell 87:23
seller 52:18
semantics 70:3
semi 72:17
seminar 13:18
seminars 13:19
semitism 51:1
senate 2:4 4:15
4:18
send 121:4
126:23
sending 117:22
senior 2:9,12,16
2:17,19 6:11,12
6:23 7:22 8:17
21:6
sense 25:11
28:14 41:5,6
42:14,15 125:12
164:20 186:4
187:11,14 197:4
197:21 198:13
sensitivity 28:14
sentiment 123:2
167:23

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

separate 73:24
separated
128:22
september 1:6
3:4 9:21 10:2,7
10:9,11,18 11:7
11:12,15,18
12:4,5
septima 69:22
series 14:4 67:16
67:19,20 68:2,5
68:16 69:20,21
76:21,23 77:1,4
81:16 84:6
99:15 122:24
123:16,20,21
129:4,6 140:3
143:15 146:9
serious 176:22
serve 51:25
93:22
served 13:5,8,10
13:13 14:13
service 5:17
12:15,16 14:8
14:10,11,19
15:4,17,24
18:16 24:13
28:18 73:19
163:14 182:17
serving 28:16
73:4 137:7
set 22:20 28:12
47:25 99:3
122:4 124:5
170:24
sets 194:25
settle 108:20
settled 65:22
66:8,13 166:10

Meeting

[seven - six]
seven 45:19,22
45:23 46:1
100:13 103:23
109:5 111:13
118:18 121:19
122:17 125:9
126:21 127:7
146:4 149:14
157:7 162:3,4
166:10 167:2
176:20 188:15
188:15,22 189:5
189:17,24
190:22
seventeen
188:18
shape 62:24,25
72:17 200:24
shaped 47:24
51:3
share 21:10
26:24 81:20
85:15 88:1
107:18 114:4
138:17,18
shared 54:14
82:11 116:14
sharing 99:14
she'll 8:2
sheet 44:21
149:4
sheets 45:12
57:6 91:11
188:8
shifting 59:16
ship 147:13
148:2,14 149:2
149:8,23 167:6
172:24 178:24
184:22

September 27, 2022

Page 47
ships 112:19
149:15
shipyards
138:24
short 138:22
shortage 135:18
shorten 113:11
shortened 24:16
shorthand 67:5
shot 187:24
shoulder 86:4
147:12 159:18
shoulders 49:18
56:2 85:22
86:18 130:12
shout 172:11
174:11
show 21:3
116:19,23,24
117:6 119:12,14
123:9 142:2,20
142:24 164:15
166:11 168:6,6
168:9,15
showed 159:5
showing 55:15
166:1 168:14
185:14,19,20
shown 23:7
43:18 141:12
shows 22:18
32:1 37:7,17,18
42:7 58:1,11
63:23 74:16
78:11 142:18
159:10 163:15
166:23 177:12
shrunk 72:13
side 58:9 70:21
113:4 115:7

141:14,18,21,21
141:25 142:3,18
163:21 166:17
167:2 168:4
173:16 176:19
183:17,20 185:9
198:20
sidebar 12:11
sides 74:1
200:21,22
sign 142:20
signals 146:2
signature 24:8
32:9 38:22
144:14,20 145:8
204:21 205:19
significance
9:19 11:14,16
39:1 41:1
significances
110:7
significant 11:10
69:3 136:8,18
184:25
signify 17:22
signing 6:7
silent 98:25
silhouette 38:24
81:2 87:8 147:1
148:12,14 158:1
158:1,4 163:22
193:9
silhouetted
167:6
silhouettes 87:9
149:2,15 161:10
163:23 165:24
similar 87:23
131:4 145:11
180:5

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

similarity 81:8
simple 71:4
76:23 111:17
167:10 171:8
simplicity 79:21
110:11 167:6
175:6
simplified
158:20
simply 29:11
34:12 42:19
79:8 115:13
146:19 175:2
single 80:21
125:3 138:6
sink 102:5,6
sir 8:7 15:19
73:1 88:9 158:9
196:18 200:18
203:2
sistine 182:7,9
sitting 138:21
six 22:25 24:18
30:1 31:24 32:5
33:2,23 34:15
34:24 35:13
36:7 37:17 38:2
38:12 39:25
40:2,13 43:1,3
45:17 46:3
57:25 62:3,3
68:24 69:5
77:16,17,19
100:4 106:4,6
111:24 112:5
113:21 115:22
116:16 121:10
121:11 125:8
136:5 138:23
145:21 149:7

Meeting

[six - staff]
163:9 164:20
172:10 188:15
188:15,17,19,20
188:21,22
192:16
size 72:12 79:16
172:24 173:15
179:8
sizes 72:4,5
skills 204:11
205:8
skin 160:4,7
skull 101:14
slatted 99:9
slavery 93:17
slight 96:12,24
97:6 102:11
slightly 56:6
96:21 97:25
131:6 138:10
slogan 146:2
slogans 177:8
small 79:16
100:2 109:15
smaller 179:8,10
social 51:4,10
52:24
society 9:19 13:7
100:22 154:20
socks 73:7
soil 94:1,2 96:4
100:6 109:3
soldier's 145:11
soldiers 145:9
148:3 159:3
solemn 53:8
solidified 197:19
solution 108:15
117:1,3 122:18

September 27, 2022

Page 48
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sonoma 32:11
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121:9,25 126:12
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162:4 179:14
185:1 191:25
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sort 66:20,23
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78:9 79:24 80:6
110:18 140:12
158:23 173:18
174:17 175:15
177:3 185:21,25
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sorts 120:23
source 101:18

south 94:7
115:21
southern 93:16
94:11 100:8
soybeans 94:16
100:1
space 62:18 71:5
79:22 88:5
111:18 156:16
175:5,6
spaced 163:5
spanning 19:1
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speak 3:22 28:2
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65:17 71:22
76:20 80:23,24
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102:15 103:14
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156:9
speaker 2:7 5:5
8:2,15,22 62:22
65:7 69:19 86:9
92:16 181:20
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86:12
speaking 28:5
50:21 51:6 65:2
65:19 74:7 75:9
80:18 104:13,23
141:5 156:2,11
191:24
speaks 40:2
special 124:6
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specialist 2:9
6:24

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202-857-3376

specially 4:9,12
4:21,24
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specifically 13:4
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125:6 157:5,21
spectrum 131:15
speed 22:22 32:1
37:18 38:13
40:6
spell 84:3 99:20
spelled 67:3 71:4
100:24 103:24
spells 74:17
75:21
spend 52:20
169:25
spent 118:11
spite 51:25
splits 55:14
spoke 75:25
167:8
sponsored 32:13
sport 18:21 20:2
22:1
sports 10:24
19:14 27:1
spread 114:13
springs 13:13
sprocket 24:3
sprung 97:18
spur 41:1
stabilizer 193:12
stable 55:19
stack 88:8
stacked 44:3
staff 6:14 89:9
130:6 199:10

Meeting

[staff - subverts]
202:7
stafford 2:9 6:20
6:22 18:8,12
22:7 25:21 47:1
50:13,16 54:20
55:8 59:14
61:11,16,20
64:5 71:11
86:11 88:11
93:8 95:23
98:21 99:5
104:3 130:3
134:25 135:4
139:22,23
140:14 141:19
143:1,8 145:4
151:13 194:8,18
196:9,19,21
202:15
stages 23:10
stakeholder 25:9
35:23 36:10
stakeholder's
35:2,7,10
stakeholders
25:13 37:2 38:6
105:12
stamps 119:19
stand 21:25
92:20 145:10
188:1 198:9
standing 109:24
145:9 146:23
185:21
standpoint
114:2 163:10
stands 29:24
32:20
star 78:10
148:25

September 27, 2022

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94:20 100:8
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statistics 157:2

statue 70:6
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stencil 148:25
step 176:9
stepped 111:1
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sternum 86:3,19
stimulate 84:4
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stipulated
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stir 83:19
stitched 118:25
stone 98:6
stones 103:2
stood 51:9
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stop 129:18
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stories 52:17
story 70:24
114:4,5 127:20
127:21 139:12
139:14 164:1
169:17
storyteller 54:5
straight 186:21
strange 102:12
strategies 53:18
street 1:10
strength 172:4
strengthen
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stress 49:8 52:6
striking 28:25
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stronger 141:11
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struck 29:16,20
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struggle 77:8
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stuck 75:8
students 51:13
studied 93:19
studying 52:6
170:1
stuff 17:4 72:7,9
108:19 158:19
style 123:9
165:10 180:5
183:23
styles 184:1
stylization 184:3
184:3
stylized 58:14
subject 9:1
114:23 115:11
158:6
subsequent
16:20
substituted
167:4
subverts 173:10
175:18

Meeting

[successful - team]
successful
116:20
successfully
110:13 115:10
sudden 52:4
suffer 60:17
suffered 156:25
sufficiently
40:24
suggest 65:4
71:19 110:14
150:23 151:5
suggested 77:21
88:18
suggesting 56:25
100:15
suggestion 89:9
147:21 187:13
suggestions
83:13
suite 18:19
sullivan 2:9 6:23
6:25
sum 38:25
summa 51:9
summer 13:18
superimposed
24:2,6
superior 118:17
supplied 137:8
supplies 60:18
136:25
support 33:20
34:10 35:22
42:25 43:9,16
68:16,24 71:8
80:25 90:11
96:12 100:25
111:5 135:17
192:1

September 27, 2022

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surface 24:13
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surgeries 19:15
surgery 48:20
surrounded
144:22
suspended 51:19
suspension
51:20
sweep 23:24
sweet 94:15 96:3
100:1,1 106:22
sweetgrass
109:2
swirling 32:1

switching
141:24 147:22
sworn 204:6
syllable 80:22
symbol 58:13
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symbolic 87:23
131:24
symbolically
56:11 60:23
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182:19,21
symbolism
43:21 74:19
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symbolize 58:16
symbolizes
100:3
symbols 29:7
synchrony 178:7
system 51:17
53:23 112:15
187:1,2
t
t 2:1,1 93:20
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table 126:6
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take 10:25 17:3
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62:9 91:2,2
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202-857-3376

taken 17:6 45:7
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talk 44:5 82:14
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talked 121:14
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talkers 14:4
talkie 86:9
talking 3:21
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63:20 86:23
102:8 105:6
106:11 118:13
119:16 121:12
145:2 153:10
184:4
tallied 46:8
tally 44:25 91:3
tallying 45:2
tandem 122:24
tank 53:21
147:14 148:2
149:3 167:7
196:19,21
tape 70:16
task 127:24
taught 13:17
87:15
teach 111:22
team 18:22 56:4
64:10 71:18
97:1 117:22
130:11 198:25
199:5

Meeting

[teammates - things]
teammates 19:5
19:7
teams 3:20
126:15
technical 25:4
59:4 101:7
103:11 141:2
150:10
technique 48:19
techniques
48:21 99:17
technological
48:22
technology
51:25 52:1 64:9
techy 123:15
telephone 70:22
tell 63:2 110:25
113:23 114:3
116:17 126:25
127:19 139:11
139:12,14
164:12,15
167:18 169:17
telling 43:8
60:20 128:18
tells 164:1,22,24
template 72:3,5
72:13
templates 72:6
ten 33:15,17
45:4,6 46:3
108:2 150:2
174:7 188:1,23
tenacity 20:6,8
tend 154:21
176:15
tendon 19:16
tentatively
202:22

September 27, 2022

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tenure 14:24
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terms 32:5
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terrific 155:9
territories 47:8
terrorist 10:8
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testifying 204:6
testing 27:5
text 72:8,20 92:7
168:14,20
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textural 109:8
texture 161:3,7
165:22 194:25
textured 24:11
textures 96:2
thank 9:12 12:7
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15:14,20 16:9
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17:24 18:12
21:14 22:4,7
25:3 26:21 28:8
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33:2,3,5 34:3,5
35:3,5,16,18,20
36:11,13,21,25
37:1 38:6,7,9
39:5,6,8,13

40:16,17 42:20
44:7,7,14,15
46:5,18,19,21
47:1 50:17
54:17,20,22,23
55:8 59:3,9 61:1
61:22 63:3,10
63:16 64:1,16
64:20,21 65:21
66:14 67:10,11
69:6,7,18,24
70:10 71:18
72:24 73:3 74:4
74:5,9,25 75:2,4
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76:8 78:18,20
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116:6,7,9,10
118:3,5,6,8
121:20,21
122:14,16 127:2
129:1 131:16
133:5,18,21
135:4 138:4
140:18,24 143:6
143:8 145:4,4
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202-857-3376

152:15 154:3,23
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160:1,24 162:24
163:1,1 164:2,3
164:5 166:3,4
167:18,19,21,23
170:5,6,8,11
171:3 174:11,13
174:15 176:4,5
177:22,23 181:9
184:7 186:1,3
188:25 191:22
195:23 196:5
197:16 198:14
199:6 203:2
thankful 16:13
201:25
thanking 15:16
78:24
thanks 42:19
75:15,15 173:24
201:23
theme 9:1 30:1
48:2 56:13
93:10 166:20
169:19
themes 14:14
47:12 120:11
thing 32:8 44:5
68:22 71:6
95:21 98:10,15
113:1 114:11
156:20,24
160:10 163:17
173:14,17
178:21 200:17
things 32:13,15
37:10,16 56:8
59:19 68:20

Meeting

[things - time]
73:12 75:8 82:9
82:16 89:3 96:9
102:12 108:7
115:3,3 122:15
122:16 132:10
132:15 154:3
159:6 169:5,6
171:4,21 175:19
176:16 177:13
180:8 199:15
think 21:13,22
25:11 28:15,21
28:24 29:4,19
30:8 31:6,25
32:9,19,22,23
33:25 34:16,16
34:21 35:11
36:2,4 37:6,10
37:16,22,23
38:14,20 39:16
39:21 40:6,9
42:3,14,17
43:20 53:21
60:9,20,21,22
61:6 63:1,11,24
66:3,25 68:23
70:17 72:10
73:25 75:18
76:1,1,20 77:16
77:24 78:4,8,14
78:17,17 79:10
80:2,11,13 81:1
81:3,7,12 82:7
83:7,14,24,24
84:3,15,16
85:24 86:20
88:17,18 89:7
90:12 92:21
98:19 101:21,22
105:1,7,16,19

September 27, 2022

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163:7,8 164:11
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171:6,17,18
172:20 173:4,8
173:9 174:1,2
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176:20 177:18

178:6,10,19,25
179:16,22,24
180:3,11,15
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182:19 185:16
186:7 188:9
192:13 194:8,10
194:23 197:20
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thinking 80:22
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161:12 164:23
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201:2
thinks 173:9
third 10:13 19:3
19:17
thirty 46:1
thompson 8:18
21:7
thought 11:23
26:19 32:2
66:19 76:12
96:19 97:22
108:6,7,25
109:6 111:13
156:15 157:1
169:11 177:17
177:21 179:17
184:17 195:11
thoughtful
13:22 15:6,8
30:23
thoughts 76:19
116:12
threatening
19:16
three 14:21,22
14:25 17:3

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

19:10,20 20:18
22:14 24:6
30:13 32:7 33:1
33:22 35:15
36:3 37:5 38:19
40:3,12 45:14
45:18,25 46:1
100:16 110:4
140:5,16 144:18
145:2,3 147:9
148:8,8,10,10
160:10 165:23
165:25 166:21
166:23 167:14
168:23 172:19
172:19,22
177:15 178:16
178:19 184:21
185:3 188:14,14
188:14,19,23,23
192:12
threshold 9:21
thrilled 16:1
33:9
throat 120:5
throw 122:5
125:2 137:25
178:9
ties 30:8 95:9
tightened
148:15
tilt 23:3
time 1:7 3:22 4:2
4:4 9:15 11:12
15:9 19:25 20:3
23:9 27:15,16
33:19 35:11
36:21 38:3
41:10,18 44:10
48:15 52:5 63:6

Meeting

[time - tuskegee]
65:9,12 83:6,18
83:24 85:7
103:14 118:11
124:1,8,14,14
128:4 130:10,11
150:25 153:4
155:12 167:16
169:25 187:9,15
203:3
times 53:24
155:8
timothy 1:13
204:3,22
tip 201:6
tired 177:3
title 61:5
titles 19:21
today 6:16 8:11
9:12 12:18,22
12:25 15:3 16:7
20:12 46:18
50:5,8 54:23
67:19 93:1
94:22 141:1
153:13 201:24
202:4,5
today's 3:11
5:15 12:4
told 26:15 80:7
182:14
tongue 33:14
60:16
tool 159:21,24
186:13,14
tools 137:3
142:22 146:13
149:11 169:5
172:8 176:14,17
top 43:19 60:4
99:24 102:2,8

September 27, 2022

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topic 11:7 122:7
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torso 56:7 58:7,9
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total 129:18
totally 89:20
115:12
tour 18:23 19:2
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23:7,17 32:3
42:8
track 27:16,19
65:9
tradition 165:9
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traditional
195:13
trained 53:17,20
transcribed 3:6
134:4
transcriber
205:1
transcript 205:4
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transcriptionist
204:9
transformation
170:20
translate 53:21
travel 99:14
traveled 54:6
147:14
treasurer 12:24
50:4
treasury 1:9
10:13 11:16

14:14 16:12
47:5,13
treat 105:3
treatment 49:7
52:2 109:3
tremendous
21:19
tribute 76:11
tried 101:21
171:9
triomphe 22:16
22:19,23 23:2
23:17 29:1 31:5
40:3 42:9
triumphant
40:12
trouble 88:16,17
170:25
trowel 120:14
true 16:24 31:8
80:23 88:20
119:24 120:9
204:10 205:6
truly 28:18 69:2
73:13
trust 2:23 9:11
137:17 152:25
try 27:13 32:14
64:25 84:1
104:11 113:6
123:17 132:4
155:25 171:4
trying 87:23
107:2,4 108:11
112:22 127:19
129:17 166:16
167:17 173:11
180:3 198:21
tube 100:2

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

tucker 2:5 4:22
4:23 39:7,8,9,13
75:3,4,5,15
91:22,22 92:4,5
92:6 116:8,9,10
134:17,18
167:20,21,22
169:13 184:13
184:14 186:9,9
190:8,9,13,16
190:19 197:15
197:16,17 198:1
199:25
tuesday 1:6 3:4
turn 23:3 30:23
33:3 34:5 35:18
39:6 41:15
66:14 67:11
70:10 74:8 75:2
76:5 78:20
80:15 85:14
90:2 92:4 93:2
103:16 104:23
109:9 110:21
112:2 113:7
116:7 118:6
121:21 134:24
158:9 160:1
162:25 164:3
165:15 166:5
170:6 174:13
176:5 198:15
turned 112:24
turning 12:7,12
18:7 93:4
106:15 107:24
117:16 167:19
tuskegee 93:14
93:21,23

Meeting

[tweak - van]
tweak 186:19
twenty 45:17,19
45:22 46:1
188:12,15,20,22
189:5
twister 60:16
two 9:24 11:6
14:20 19:19
20:18 24:1 29:7
37:20 45:24
47:15,18 56:8
59:10,18 74:1
78:2 81:6 87:13
99:23 112:16,18
119:19 123:24
129:4 132:10
142:18 143:23
144:11 145:25
148:17 149:5
150:22 151:2
167:13 168:17
173:14 179:20
188:13,16,19,22
188:23 189:19
189:21 190:21
191:19 192:12
192:20
twos 189:20,21
tying 95:15,16
type 27:8 62:15
98:25
types 100:7
typewriting
204:8
typical 98:3
183:10 186:1
typically 14:24
27:17 81:23
86:1,18 87:6
183:16 196:9

September 27, 2022

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undramatic
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undying 53:24
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uh 97:6
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ultimately 11:9
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unidentified
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understanding
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understated
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unknown 8:2,15
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unnatural
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99:11 107:6
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uses 94:9,11
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uso 156:23
usually 72:10
v
v 149:9 163:18
177:7
vacated 137:7
van 2:6 4:25 5:1
33:5,6 78:22,23
109:10,11
134:10 150:15
150:16,18

Meeting

September 27, 2022

[van - washington]
159:15 174:15
174:16 191:13
191:13,22,24,25
192:5,19 193:2
193:3,8,19
variety 143:22
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149:11 166:9,9
various 166:24
vasquez 2:10 7:6
7:7 72:1
vegetables 152:7
vehicles 135:9
velominati
33:12
ventricular
55:18
ventris 2:8 6:18
verb 168:4,11
verbally 134:5
verbiage 168:9
169:15 185:11
verify 31:7
version 24:16
102:19 138:8
144:6
versus 82:24
84:24 169:2
vertical 193:12
veteran 10:14
21:18
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viable 102:18
victories 20:14
20:17 22:17
23:18
victorious 19:8
victory 19:7
43:18 137:1
149:7,9,18

Page 55
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visibility 72:5
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vividly 90:12
voice 36:23 54:3
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volunteered
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votes 35:15 46:8
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voting 35:2 37:2
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w
w 99:18 100:15
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wagon 99:12,19
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185:6,25 190:3
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wanted 22:2
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warmth 28:14
warren 2:13 6:5
6:8,8 7:15,18
10:20 17:2,9
36:15,16 45:4
192:13
wartime 136:22
washington 1:12
93:11,12,20

Meeting

[washington - women]
94:13 95:10
96:2,7 98:5
99:10,11,20,22
100:3,5,11,20
100:23 103:24
106:6,15 108:4
109:6 111:8,12
112:21 113:18
115:17 118:19
118:21 119:7,13
119:18,22 120:3
121:15 122:19
122:21 127:12
127:25 129:7,7
washington's
110:14
waste 122:6
watch 190:14
waving 22:15
150:4
way 3:23 9:20
11:23 22:3 29:1
29:2,22 30:8,17
30:18 38:17
40:6,11 43:24
44:2,3 51:17
55:6 61:9 71:19
76:1 77:18 81:4
82:17 86:2,19
87:12 97:3,14
98:3 100:6
101:24 108:18
119:5 121:11
123:21 131:7,12
132:15,15,19
145:9,9 154:25
158:23 161:1,2
163:24 173:9
174:9,9,20
185:22 186:11

September 27, 2022

Page 56

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we've 76:25
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weaponry
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weapons 52:22
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wear 144:14
wearing 23:5
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website 33:12,13
weight 75:19
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weinman 2:12
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126:3,10 127:3
131:17 184:10
186:25 187:23
188:7,9 189:2,6
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weird 126:15
welcome 41:24
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143:4
welcoming
12:24
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welder 184:25
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went 19:17 49:4
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west 171:12,16
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westinghouse
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white 2:24 8:4,6
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whitman 2:17
6:11
whizzing 32:17
108:10
who've 129:23
wide 143:21
148:3
wields 148:13
wife 11:3 54:13
73:15 82:12

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202-857-3376

win 19:6,12,17
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winded 84:20
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191:21
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woman 135:16
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179:4 181:12
182:5,12,18,20
184:24
women 6:2 9:6
51:13 130:17,21
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135:2,7,21,23
135:23 136:6,18
136:22 137:3,5
139:9,10 141:7
141:14,22
142:17,19
143:20,22 144:1
144:13,19 145:7
145:17,21
146:11,22 148:5
148:16 149:6,25

Meeting

[women - year]
150:5,13 152:3
152:14 153:22
158:20 159:5
164:10,17,21
165:17,25
166:12,23,25
167:7 170:19
172:13 175:17
177:16,20
181:11,12
182:16 184:22
184:24 185:4,5
185:5,11,19,20
187:18
women's 136:3
won 19:19 23:8
23:10 32:3 37:8
37:16 42:8 53:6
wonder 83:8
194:5
wondered 52:20
wonderful 15:23
37:23 43:23
73:6,6,9,12,20
75:6,13 77:5
78:25 118:4
166:7 167:15
168:1 169:23
wondering 26:5
77:20 198:25
wood 99:9
word 30:6 95:19
107:4,6 158:18
165:4 194:24
wordier 168:19
wording 163:9
166:17 169:19
197:23 198:9
words 10:5
12:10 15:19

September 27, 2022

Page 57
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workable
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workers 53:12
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workforce 135:8
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working 119:16
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151:25 166:1
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workplace
136:15
works 76:3
117:4 120:11
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world 2:16 6:10
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world's 18:23
worldwide
48:19
worried 96:22
worry 120:25
worst 10:8
worth 30:2,13
155:14
wounds 19:16
wow 189:11

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

wrap 34:3
wrench 144:15
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147:12,25
148:13 149:1,10
149:15,23 150:3
159:18,19 169:1
176:8 177:12
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wrenches
146:14 149:5
176:12
wrenching
178:23
write 132:18
writer 117:7
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writing 24:7
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written 29:23
198:7 202:9
wrong 112:13
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wrote 52:17 53:7
ww 171:20
y
yeah 60:2,18
95:5 106:25
115:15 127:1
138:19 140:6
142:15 151:15
152:24 162:20
173:6 179:12
181:18 184:16
185:4,23,25
187:5 192:24
year 9:21,22
10:17 19:4

Meeting

[year - zoom]

September 27, 2022

Page 58

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year's 23:7,8,11
years 13:17,17
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54:13 108:2
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yep 189:25
yiddish 51:6
yields 94:3
york 13:7 180:9
young 2:23 7:25
32:10 56:18
69:9,10 90:3
151:12,16
152:14 157:10
youngest 18:21
z
zoom 124:6

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