Full text of Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meetings, Recommendations, and Minutes : Meeting, September 24, 2014 : Transcript

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C I T I Z E N S COINAGE ADVISORY COMMITTEE

PUBLIC MEETING

W ednesday,
S eptember 24, 2014

United States Mint
8 01 9 t h Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C.

Reported by:

C hristine Allen,
C apital Reporting Company

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C O M M I T T E E M E M B E RS PRESENT:
M A R K S , G a r y , C h airman
JANSEN, Erik
SCARINCI, Donald
WASTWEET, Heidi
MORAN, Mike
B U G E J A , M i c h a e l , Dr.
S T E V E N S -S O L L M A N , Jeanne
HOGE, Robert
URAM, Thomas J.
LANNIN, Mary
V I O L A , H e r m a n , Dr.
U.S. MINT STAFF:
P E T E R S O N , R i c h a rd, Acting Director
ANTONUCCI, Steve
BIRDSONG, Betty
EVERHART, Don
NORTON, Bill
SULLIVAN, Megan
STAFFORD, April
VASQUEZ, Roger
WEINMAN, Gary

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A G E N D A
PAGE

W e l c o m e a n d R e c onvene the Meeting

4

R e v i e w a n d d i s c uss candidate designs for the
2 0 1 5 a n d 2 0 1 6 A merican Eagle Platinum Coin
Program
6
P r o p o s e d A r t s M edal Program

111

D i s c u s s i o n o f F Y2014 Annual Report
Adjourn

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P R O C E E D I N G S
(9:35 a.m.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Good morning.

This

m e e t i n g o f t h e Citizen’s Coinage Advisory
C o m m i t t e e f o r W ednesday, September 24th, will
come to order.
( A m p l i f ied phone conversation in
background.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

First, I want to go

t o t h e t e l e p h o n e and recognize that we have
f o l k s l i s t e n i n g in and if, whoever the
v i s i t o r s a r e o n the phone, could you please
i d e n t i f y y o u r s e lf?
( A m p l i f ied phone conversation
continues.)
M S . S T A FFORD:

For anyone who’s

j o i n i n g u s o n t he phone, could you first
p l e a s e m u t e y o u r phone?
( A m p l i f ied phone conversation
continues.)
M S . S T A FFORD:

Hello, this is the

U n i t e d S t a t e s M int headquarters; we’re

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b e g i n n i n g t h e m eeting today.

If you are on

t h e p h o n e a n d p articipating, if you could
p l e a s e m u t e y o u r phones?

Thank you.

C h a i r m a n Marks is about to start the
meeting.

I ’ m n ot sure, Mr. Marks, if your

m i c r o p h o n e i s o n, so they may not have been
a b l e t o h e a r y o u.

There we go, okay.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
Okay.

Do you hear me now?

I w o u l d ask any press members on the

p h o n e t o p l e a s e identify yourself.
( A m p l i f ied phone conversation
continues.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Apparently they can’t

h e a r u s o n t h e phone.
( P a u s e for technical assistance.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

I've already called

t h e m e e t i n g t o order, so I'll ask April if
s h e ' l l g i v e u s the report on the 2015 and 2016
A m e r i c a n E a g l e Platinum Coin Program.
M S . S T A FFORD:

It is 31 U.S.C. 5112(k)

t h a t g r a n t s t h e Secretary of the Treasury the
a u t h o r i t y t o m i nt and issue platinum bullion

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coins and-C H A I R M A N MARKS:

April, why don't you

pause?
M S . S T A FFORD:

Yes.

I agree.

(Pause.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M S . S T A FFORD:

Give it a try, April.
Okay.

It is 31 U.S.C.

5 1 1 2 ( k ) t h a t g r ants the Secretary of the
T r e a s u r y t h e a u thority to mint and issue
p l a t i n u m b u l l i o n coins and proof platinum
coins.

T h e s p e cifications and designs are

l e f t t o t h e S e c retary's discretion.
B e g i n n i ng with the coin's debut in
1 9 9 7 , A m e r i c a n Eagle platinum coin designs
h a v e d e p i c t e d t he Statue of Liberty on the
obverse.

F r o m 1998 to 2002, proof versions of

t h e A m e r i c a n P l atinum Eagle carried a
d i f f e r e n t r e v e r se design under a program
e n t i t l e d " V i s t a s of Liberty."

Each year, a

b a l d e a g l e w a s depicted in a different region
o f t h e U n i t e d S tates or a United States- themed
design.

F r o m 2 006 to 2008, a three- year

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s e r i e s o f d e s i g ns, known as the "Foundations
o f D e m o c r a c y , " was issued to represent the
t h r e e b r a n c h e s of government.

And from 2009

t o 2 0 1 4 , a s i x -year platinum coin design
e x p l o r e d t h e c o re concepts of American
d e m o c r a c y b y h i ghlighting the Preamble to the
U n i t e d S t a t e s C onstitution.
F o r t h e upcoming iteration of American
E a g l e P l a t i n u m proof coins, the United States
M i n t d i d n o t r e quire artists to design to a
s p e c i f i c n a r r a t ive or theme.

Based on a

r e c o m m e n d a t i o n by the Citizens Coinage
A d v i s o r y C o m m i t tee, artists were given more
l a t i t u d e r e g a r d ing design concepts.

As

p l a t i n u m i s t h e most precious of all the
p r e c i o u s m e t a l coins, we asked our artists to
s u b m i t d e s i g n s that are also of the highest
quality:

i n n o v ative, beautiful, and

r e p r e s e n t a t i v e of the ideals of our nation.
T h e U n i ted States Mint is seeking a
d e s i g n r e c o m m e n dation for the 2015 Platinum
Program.

H o w e v er, we have an opportunity to

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i d e n t i f y t w o b e autiful and complementary
d e s i g n s - - o n e f o r 2015 and one for 2016-d e s i g n s t h a t r e late to one another
s t y l i s t i c a l l y a nd/or thematically.

This

w o u l d , i n e f f e c t, organically create a twoyear series.
W e n o t i fied artists of this
p o s s i b i l i t y a n d asked them to submit multiple
c o m p l e m e n t a r y d esigns, resulting in the
p o r t f o l i o y o u ' l l be reviewing today.

Some

a r t i s t s s u p p l i e d an alternate title for their
d e s i g n s , a n d t h ose titles will be shared with
you also today.

Required inscriptions are:

U n i t e d S t a t e s o f America, 0.9995 platinum,
$ 1 0 0 , a n d o n e o unce.
A n d o n to the platinum designs.
B e f o r e w e g o t o the reverse, we're going to
t a k e a m o m e n t s o everyone is aware.

This is

t h e o b v e r s e t h a t would be depicted, and we're
s e l e c t i n g h o p e f ully two reverse designs to
complement this.
Okay.

Reverse 1, called "Freedom to

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A c h i e v e , " d e p i c ts a young girl reading.
b o o k i t s e l f i s ambiguous.

The

It might be a

l i t e r a r y n o v e l or an astrophysics
dissertation.

This young girl has the freedom

o f s e l f -d e t e r m i nation and the freedom to
a c h i e v e a l l t o which she aspires.
T h e c o m panion design is Reverse 2,
" L i b e r t y N u r t u r es Freedom."

This design

d e p i c t s L i b e r t y kneeling to inspect the branch
o f a n o l i v e t r e e.

She extends her left hand

t o a d o v e , a s y mbol of peace.

A quiver of

a r r o w s , a s y m b o l for defense of freedom, lies
at her feet.

W hile encouraging and fostering

p e a c e , s h e r e m a ins ready to fight to preserve
it.
R e v e r s e s 3, 4, 5, and 6 depict Liberty
a n d a n A m e r i c a n bald eagle representing
freedom.

I n D e signs 3, 4, and 5, Liberty

e n c o u r a g e s t h e eagle to take flight as an
a m b a s s a d o r o f d emocracy.

Design 6, a

c o m p a n i o n d e s i g n to any of the previous three,
s h o w s L i b e r t y c ontinuing to nurture and

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sustain freedom.

Here is Reverse 3, 4, and 5,

a n d t h e c o m p a n i on design to any of those, 6.
R e v e r s e s 7 and 8 depict Liberty with
f l o w i n g h a i r a n d robe waving in the winds of
freedom.

S h e h olds a torch of enlightenment

i n h e r r i g h t h a nd and an olive branch in her
l e f t t o s y m b o l i ze peace.

Thirteen olives are

i n c l u d e d o n t h e olive branch to represent the
1 3 o r i g i n a l c o l onies.

Design 7 includes a

b a l d e a g l e w i t h its wings outstretched,
r e p r e s e n t i n g i t s boundless spirit, as it
c l u t c h e s a n o l i ve branch in its talons.
D e s i g n 8 i n c o r p orates 13 stars into the
composition.

H ere is Reverse 7 and 8.

T h e c o m panion to either design,
R e v e r s e 9 , d e p i cts a bald eagle while grasping
a n o l i v e b r a n c h in its talons to symbolize
peace.

T h e e a g le's wings are outstretched to

r e p r e s e n t i t s b oundless spirit of freedom.
T h e s t a r s i n a circle above the eagle's head
r e p r e s e n t s t h e 13 original colonies.
R e v e r s e 10, "My Country 'Tis of Thee,"

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a n d i t s c o m p a n i on design, Reverse 11, "Let
F r e e d o m R i n g , " celebrate the patriotic spirit
a n d p r i d e o f o u r nation's youngest citizens.
F o r g e n e r a t i o n s , one of the first patriotic
s o n g s A m e r i c a n children learned to sing is
"America."

D e s ign 10 depicts three grade

s c h o o l c h i l d r e n singing the song's opening
p h r a s e , " M y C o u ntry 'Tis of Thee."
T o c o n v ey the rhythm, the musical
s t a f f f l o w s f r o m left to right and features
t h e s i x n o t e s t hat correspond to the phrase.
D e s i g n 1 1 p o r t r ays a dual image of the Liberty
B e l l , h o w i t a p pears today housed in the
L i b e r t y B e l l C e nter, and how it may have
l o o k e d o n J u l y 8, 1776, when, according to
t r a d i t i o n , i t r ang to summon the citizens of
P h i l a d e l p h i a t o hear the first public reading
o f t h e D e c l a r a t ion of Independence.

The five

d a n c i n g m u s i c a l notes correspond to the song's
c l o s i n g p h r a s e , "Let freedom ring."
R e v e r s e 12, "Liberty and the American
D r e a m , " d e p i c t s an allegorical female falconer

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r e l e a s i n g a n e a gle into the sky, representing
l i b e r t y a n d t h e American dream of opportunity.
I n m y t h o l o g i c a l symbolism, the hung represents
t h e g a m e o f l i f e, a search for success and
o p p o r t u n i t y , w h ich is not possible without
f r e e d o m a n d l i b erty.

In this design, the

f e m a l e f i g u r e w ears a wreath of olive leaves
a n d c a r r i e s a q uiver of arrows.

She also

w e a r s a m a n t l e with 13 stripes to represent
t h e o r i g i n a l 1 3 colonies that formed the
United States.
R e v e r s e 13, "American Opportunity,"
d e p i c t s a n o u t s tretched hand reaching for the
s t a r s t o r e p r e s ent the United States as a land
of opportunity.

The design features three

s t a r s s y m b o l i z i ng life, liberty, and the
p u r s u i t o f h a p p iness.

The stars are shown not

a s t y p i c a l f i v e -pointed stars but as more
c o m p l e x s t a r s t hat shine brightly in the night
sky.
R e v e r s e 14, "Land of the Free," pays
h o m a g e t o t h e f reedoms Americans enjoy by

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f e a t u r i n g t h e L iberty Bell, an enduring symbol
o f f r e e d o m , r u n g to tell the world that 13
c o l o n i e s h a d d e clared their independence from
Great Britain.

The bell is drawn at a tilt in

t h e p r o c e s s o f ringing, a symbol of freedom in
action.

T h e w o rds "Land of the Free" are

i n c u s e d o n t h e bell, encircling its cylinder.
R e v e r s e 15, "Liberty Is America's
S t r e n g t h , " d e p i cts Liberty cradling fasces to
r e p r e s e n t u n i t y while waving the flag and
b o l d l y m o v i n g f orward.

Its companion, Reverse

1 6 , s h o w s L i b e r ty shining a torch over various
s y m b o l s o f w h a t makes America great:

our

u n i t y , f a s c e s ; our love of peace, olive
b r a n c h ; a n d o u r tradition, classical
a r c h i t e c t u r a l e lements.
R e v e r s e 17 features a male figure
h o l d i n g a s w o r d in defense of our liberties
w h i l e o f f e r i n g an olive branch of peace to the
world.

T h e a d d itional inscription of "Life,

L i b e r t y , a n d t h e Pursuit of Happiness" is
included.

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R e v e r s e 18, "Foundation of Our
C o u n t r y , " d e p i c ts Lady Liberty sitting proudly
o n a c l a s s i c a l capital while protecting the
f r u i t s o f o u r l abor.

Its companion, Reverse

1 9 , " A m e r i c a ' s Future," shows Lady Liberty
p r o t e c t i n g a c h ild who holds the Declaration
of Independence.
R e v e r s e 20, "Land of Opportunity,"
d e p i c t s a c i t y , a house, and a farm,
r e p r e s e n t i n g d i fferent parts of the American
l a n d s c a p e , a s w ell as different people's ideas
o f t h e A m e r i c a n dream.

The design includes

t h e i n s c r i p t i o n "Land of Opportunity," an
A m e r i c a n f l a g , and a soaring eagle to
s y m b o l i z e f r e e d om.

The companion design,

R e v e r s e 2 1 , " O p portunity," also includes an
a p p l e t r e e b r a n ch bearing fruit as a symbol of
opportunity.
R e v e r s e 22 features an American bald
e a g l e , a s y m b o l of strength and freedom.

The

e a g l e i s d e p i c t ed in the heraldic tradition
w i t h a n o l i v e b ranch clutched in its right

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t a l o n t o s y m b o l ize peace and 13 arrows in its
l e f t t a l o n t o s ymbolize strength and the
a b i l i t y t o p r o t ect.
R e v e r s e 23 depicts Libertas, the
g o d d e s s o f f r e e dom, holding the American flag.
S h e ' s w e a r i n g a crown of olives symbolizing
p e a c e a n d v i c t o ry.

The American bald eagle,

s e e n i n t h e b a c kground landing on a wild olive
b r a n c h , i s a s y mbol of freedom, power, and
independence.
R e v e r s e 24 depicts Freedom holding the
i m p l e m e n t s o f s elf- protection, a sword for
d e f e n s e a n d a s hield, representing the
C o n s t i t u t i o n o f the United States.

Held in

t h e s a m e h a n d a s the shield is a victor's
wreath.

T h e a r tist has created the alternate

t i t l e o f " F r e e d om" for this design.
T h e c o m panion design, Reverse 25,
t i t l e d " W i s d o m Seeks Justice," depicts Wisdom
o n t h e s e a t o f Justice holding a Book of
K n o w l e d g e a n d b alanced scales which represent
equality.

S h e is not blind, but she sees all

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a n d c o n s i d e r s a ll in her judgment.
o f J u s t i c e l i e s across her lap.

The Sword

Her foot

r e s t s o n a s p h e re representing the globe.
R e v e r s e 26, Liberty reading to hear
c h i l d r e n , d e p i c ts an allegory of Lady Liberty
r e a d i n g t o c h i l dren.

This design's concept

e m e r g e s f r o m A m erican values regarding
e d u c a t i o n , f a m i ly, and freedom of speech.

It

s u g g e s t s t h e i m portance of teaching the rising
g e n e r a t i o n a b o u t our founding principles,
i n c l u d i n g l i f e , liberty, justice, and the rule
of law.

T h e c o mpanion design, Reverse 27,

L i b e r t y a s a c h ild reading, also underscores
t h e i m p o r t a n c e of education and features Lady
L i b e r t y a s a y o ung girl reading a book.
R e v e r s e 28 features an allegory of
V i c t o r y h o l d i n g an eagle aloft, which once
a p p e a r e d a s a f igurehead on the flagship USS
Olympic.
R e v e r s e 29 features a rose, America's
n a t i o n a l f l o r a l emblem since 1986.

A

r e p e a t i n g b o r d e r of 13 eagles and 13 stars

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c i r c l e t h e d e s i gn as symbols of the 13
colonies.
R e v e r s e 30 depicts Liberty stepping
f o r w a r d , h e r b a ck to the rising sun, with 13
r a y s f o r t h e o r iginal colonies.

She carries a

s w o r d i n h e r r i ght hand to signify vigilance
a g a i n s t o p p r e s s ion and raises her sword in the
l e f t a s a b e a c o n of hope and freedom.
R e v e r s e 31 depicts three figures
h o l d i n g a t o r c h in unity, symbolizing a
d i v e r s e A m e r i c a n society moving confidently
i n t o t h e f u t u r e with its path lit by the torch
of liberty.
T h e C F A recommended Designs 9 and 22,
b o t h e a g l e d e s i gns, noting the text on the
r e v e r s e s s h o u l d be altered to match the serif
s t y l e t h a t i s f eatured on the platinum
obverse.
A n d , M r . Chairman, that concludes the
d e s i g n s f o r t h a t program.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, April.

A r e y o u all hearing me on the

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microphone?

I don't feel like I'm as loud as

I was yesterday.

You're not hearing me?

(Pause.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
now?

Are you hearing me

Okay.
A l l r i g ht.

We have 31 designs in

f r o n t o f u s , C o mmittee, and normally we would
g o t h r o u g h a p r ocess of culling these out.
B e f o r e w e d o t h at--I don't want to make the
a s s u m p t i o n t h a t we should do that.

I want to

h a v e a d i s c u s s i on about how the committee
w o u l d l i k e t o p roceed.

We have a bit of a

c h a l l e n g e i n f r ont of us trying to determine a
p o t e n t i a l t w o -y ear program that's either
s t y l i s t i c a l l y o r thematically linked.

So if

y o u h a v e i d e a s - -Michael?
D R . B U G EJA:

I like the idea of going

t h r o u g h a l l o f them as the designs are--many
o f t h e s e d e s i g n s are wonderful, but perhaps
w i t h a b r i e f p r eface of what we find and what
w e l i k e , w h a t w e don't like, and then limit
o u r d i s c u s s i o n s very quickly to the ones that

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w e l i k e a n d w e don't like so that each one has
a c h a n c e t o c o m e up on the board.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

You're suggesting we

w o u l d n o t c u l l through them but each member
w o u l d j u s t c o m m ent on a handful of those-D R . B U G EJA:
best.

What they feel is the

S o , i n o ther words, I will not go

t h r o u g h a l l 3 1 , but all 31 would be on the
table.

I m i g h t just go through five of what I

like.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . S C A RINCI:

All right.

Donald?

I think that would

t a k e - - y o u k n o w , as much as I would love to go
t h r o u g h a l l o f these, I think it would take a
l o n g t i m e t o d o that and really do justice to
it.

Y o u k n o w , I think given the fact that

w e ' r e t a l k i n g a bout a two- year program, I
t h i n k i t m i g h t be more productive if we work
b a c k w a r d s f r o m there and say, okay, you know,
w e k n o w t h e M i n t wants to do something or we
h o p e w a n t s t o d o something for the 20th
a n n i v e r s a r y o f this coin, you know, and do

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s o m e t h i n g a l i t tle special.

So we're really

t a l k i n g a b o u t a two- year program that precedes
t h e M i n t w a n t i n g to do something a little
special.

A n d t hat creates an opportunity

t h a t ' s v e r y i n t eresting, and, you know,
b e c a u s e a l l o f these designs are really
t r a d i t i o n a l , y o u know, are in the best light
t r a d i t i o n a l d e s igns, right?
I n t h e worst light, we're trying to
r e - c r e a t e W e i n m an and Saint- Gaudens again with
t h e s e d e s i g n s , you know, the dead people.
W e ' v e g o t t h e D ead People Syndrome, all right,
o f w a n t i n g t o r esurrect them and redo them.
I t h i n k what we talked about in the
M e d a l P r o g r a m a nd what we're going to talk
a b o u t n e x t i s a bout creating new images of
l i b e r t y f o r t h e 21st century.

This might

p r e s e n t a n o p p o rtunity, you know, to put this,
y o u k n o w , o l d , you know, desire to re- create
t h e A m e r i c a n R e naissance of the turn of the
c e n t u r y , l a s t c entury, to bed and begin, you
k n o w , i n 2 0 1 7 w ith something new and

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s o m e t h i n g , y o u know, contemporary and vibrant- y o u k n o w , d e p i ctions of liberty in new and
modern ways.

A nd we started to see some

d e s i g n s , y o u k n ow, over the last several
m e e t i n g s o v e r t he last year or so, and
y e s t e r d a y , e v e n yesterday, we looked at some
o f t h e s e , y o u k now, concepts of liberty in new
ways.

A n d i t t ook time, you know, really to,

y o u k n o w , l e t t hose designs shine out from the
group.

A n d w e did that yesterday.
S o w h a t I'm wondering is, you know,

l e t ' s c r e a t e a two- year series, you know,
a l o n g t h e l i n e s of these designs, and let's
j u s t g e t i t o v e r with, you know, so that we
can move on.

L et's mourn the death of Saint-

G a u d e n s a n d W e i nman and all of those, you
k n o w , p a s t a r t i stic styles, and let's just
m o u r n , i t ' s o v e r, and let's start with
s o m e t h i n g n e w , you know, when we celebrate
this coin.

A n d this is a great coin, and I'm

a c o l l e c t o r o f this series.

I'm one of, I

g u e s s , 1 0 , 0 0 0 p eople who collect this series,

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a n d t h a t ' s a l l we're talking about.
S o i n o rder to do that, you know--and
I t h i n k , y o u k n ow, one coin, you know--and,
y o u k n o w , I k n o w the Commission on Fine--or
t h i s i n c a r n a t i o n of the Commission on Fine
A r t s w a n t s - - s e e ms to like eagles and things.
Y o u k n o w , b u t w e're doing eagles.

I'm very

i n t e r e s t e d - - t h e re are some nice designs here
t h a t y o u c a n p u ll out, and, you know, maybe
y o u c a n d o a c o mplementary design.

And, you

k n o w , o n e d e s i g n that strikes me is number 17.
W h a t i f y o u d i d , you know, a 17 for this year
a n d t h e n a d e s i gn like 17 but with a woman as
a mirror to it?

So facing the other way,

d o i n g t h e o t h e r thing.
did that?

You know, what if you

T h a t really, you know, brings an

e n d t o t h a t e r a , you know, and it--and you'd
h a v e t w o c o m p l e mentary coins that could be a
s i d e -b y -s i d e p a ir that you can subsequently
m a r k e t i n s o m e other way.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
that thought.

A suggestion.

Hold

What I'd like to do is get the

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c o m m i t t e e ' s d i r ection on how we can to
a p p r o a c h - - b e c a u se we seem to have slipped into
t h e d e s i g n d i s c ussion.

So I think it's an

i n t e r e s t i n g t h o ught, but do we want to cull
t h r o u g h t h e s e , folks?
M R . S C A RINCI:

I don't.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
You know what?

You think so?

Okay.

I'm just going to get that

d o n e , a n d I t h i nk, Donald, 17 is going to
s u r v i v e t h a t c u lling because-M R . S C A RINCI:

Okay.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

--I know there are

s e v e r a l o f u s w ho like it.
M R . J A N SEN:

Yes, go ahead.

April, as you went

t h r o u g h t h e s e , you identified a number that
w e r e i n t e n t i o n a lly pairs.
Okay.

Hello, is this on?

Y o u i d e n tified a number of these that

a r e i n t e n t i o n a l ly paired by the artist, and I
t h i n k i n a t l e a st one case, there were four
t h a t w e r e p a i r e d, 3, 4, 5, and 6.
a n y h e r e t h a t s tand as orphans?

Are there
Because I

t r i e d t o k e e p t rack of where you identified

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t h e a r t i s t i n t e nded them to be paired, but I
e n d e d u p w i t h s ome orphans as well.
M S . S T A FFORD:

The way they were

p r e s e n t e d , i f y ou refer to the descriptions of
t h e d e s i g n s t h a t you were provided in your
p a c k e t , w e g r o u ped them as the artist had
presented them.

But I stress we're not only

l o o k i n g a t t h a t , but if there are two designs
b y t w o d i f f e r e n t artists that work together
t h r o u g h t h e m e , through style, you know,
t h r o u g h s t o r y t e lling, creating somehow
w h a t e v e r t h e t w o-year series evolves into
b e i n g , y o u k n o w , that would work for us as
well.
M R . J A N SEN:

So you kind of took it

u p o n y o u r s e l f t o say, hey, these two work so
they-M S . S T A FFORD:
M R . J A N SEN:

I'm sorry.

Say that--

So, in some cases, for

i n s t a n c e , 1 a n d 2, they weren't submitted in
t a n d e m , b u t t h e y seemed to work in tandem so
y o u t a n d e m i z e d them.

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M S . S T A FFORD:

No, they--well, they

w e r e s u b m i t t e d together by the artist, which
i s w h y w e g r o u p ed them as such.
M R . J A N SEN:
M S . S T A FFORD:

Okay.
So as you flip through

t h e d e s i g n d e s c riptions, you'll see the way
t h i n g s a r e g r o u ped.
M R . J A N SEN:

All right.

And not

s p e c i f i c a l l y t o Donald's identifying of number
1 7 , w h i c h i s p r esented kind of as a
s i n g u l a r i t y , t h ere are some other
s i n g u l a r i t i e s h ere.

I'm just curious what

w o u l d b e k i n d o f your thoughts to--I'm just
g o i n g t o - - I s e e 22, 23, 24 are kind of
p r e s e n t e d a s s t and- alone, and 25 as well, 28
as well-M S . S T A FFORD:

I would--I'm sorry.

w a s j u s t g o i n g to say the program manager,
R e v e r s e 3 0 a n d 31 are really the only two
b e s i d e s t h e n u m ber 17 that were submitted
singly.
M R . J A N SEN:

Okay.

All right.

So

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then-M S . S T A FFORD:

So 24 and 25 are

c o m p a n i o n p i e c e s, 22 and 23 are companion
p i e c e s i n t h a t they were submitted by the same
artists.
M R . J A N SEN:

Right.

Okay.

So in the

c a s e o f , w h a t d id you say, 30 and 31, what
w o u l d y o u r r e a c tion be to going back to the
a r t i s t w h o , s a y , did 30 and say, "What would
y o u d o i f w e l i ked 30 but we don't know what
t h e t a n d e m t o 3 0 looks like?"

Would you be

c o m f o r t a b l e g o i ng back to that artist and
s a y i n g , " D r a w m e another one kind of like that
o n e b u t n o t t h a t one"?
M S . S T A FFORD:

I think we would

p e r h a p s b e b e s t to address that scenario after
t h e c o m m i t t e e h as its full discussion of the
portfolio.
M R . J A N SEN:

Okay.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, April.

W e n e e d to move on with the culling
process.

I a p o logize.

Somehow the meeting

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k i n d o f g o t a l ittle askew here, so I'm going
t o - - i f w e c o u l d pull up the images here for
t h e p l a t i n u m , I 'd like to cull through those.
N u m b e r 1, is there interest in 1?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting that aside,

2?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

3?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

4?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

5?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

6?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

7?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

8?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

9?

U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:

9?
CFA.

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C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . S C A RINCI:
h a v e t o t a l k a b out it.

CFA.

Yes?

That doesn't mean we
I mean, let's just--

l e t i t r e s t i n peace.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
just briefly.

Actually, let's talk

Do you really want to consider

this?
U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:
M R . S C A RINCI:

Yes.

All right.

L et's do

it.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Now, Donald.

10?

Interest in 10?
( R e s p o n ses of no. )
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

No?

11?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting 11 aside.

12?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting that aside.

13?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

No to 13.

14?

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( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting that aside.

15?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
aside.

Setting that one

16?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

No to 16.

17 is yes.

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

18 is yes.

19?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

No.

20?

( R e s p o n ses of no. )
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

No?

21?

( R e s p o nses of no.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

22?

( R e s p o n ses of yes. )
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Yes.

23?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting 23 aside.

24?
D R . B U G EJA:

I'll do 23.

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C H A I R M A N MARKS:
in.

You want 23.

23 is

24?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting 24 aside.

25?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
aside.

Setting that one

26?
( R e s p o n ses of yes. )
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

27?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

No on 27?

Okay.

28?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting that aside.

29?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
aside.

Setting that one

30?
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Yes on 30.

31?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Yes on 31.

Okay.

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w h a t I ' v e g o t i n the pile to focus on are
D e s i g n s 3 , 4 , 5 , 6, 7, 8, 9, 17, 18, 22, 23,
26, 30, and 31.
S o g e n e rally what I would say at this
p o i n t i s l e t ' s try not to revisit the ones we
j u s t c u l l e d o u t , and that still stands.
H o w e v e r , g i v e n the nature of our discussion,
i f w e p i c k o n e and are looking for a partner,
w e m a y g o b a c k to look at that again.

But I

h o p e t o a v o i d t hat.
Okay.

So with those designs that

w e ' v e d e c i d e d t o focus on, are there any
t e c h n i c a l q u e s t ions that the committee would
l i k e t o h a v e c l arified before we move ahead
w i t h o u r d i s c u s sion?

Jeanne?

M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:

Thank you, Gary.

I w a n t t o t h a n k April for clarifying a lot of
m y q u e s t i o n s t h at I sort of have confused in
m y m i n d a b o u t h ow these were being paired and
h o w t h e y w e r e s ent out, so that was very
helpful for me.

However, I would like to know

w h a t e x a c t l y i s the obverse of this particular

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coin.
T h a t ' s it.
thank you.

Okay.

So we have Liberty,

T h a t's what I needed to know.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Are there any--Heidi,

y o u h a v e q u e s t i ons, don't you?
M S . W A STWEET:

On Design 17, can you

d e s c r i b e f o r u s the depth on this, what is
f i e l d , w h a t i s raised, et cetera?

The way I

s e e t h i s , t h e f ield is raised and the image is
c o u n t e r s u n k , b u t I want to confirm that that's
the intention.

Either/both.

M R . E V E RHART:

Yeah, I see it as

a l m o s t l i k e a n Egyptian relief where the field
i s r a i s e d a n d t hen-M S . W A S TWEET:

Yeah, like the $5

Indian gold.
M R . E V E RHART:

Yeah, and the lettering

I ' m a s s u m i n g w o uld be polished, and then the
r e l i e f o n t h e f igure would be more or less the
s a m e h e i g h t a s the field, maybe a little
h i g h e r i n p l a c e s.
M S . W A S TWEET:

That's the way I would

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see it.

Okay.
M R . A N T ONUCCI:

So the lettering is

cut in?
M R . E V E RHART:
M R . J A N SEN:

Yes.
so in that sense it

m a i n t a i n s i t s s tackability.
M R . A N T ONUCCI:

It's very different--

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . A N T ONUCCI:

Say again, Steve?
It's very different

t h a n w h a t w e n o rmally do.
M R . E V E RHART:

Can we do it as a

t h r e e -i n c h m e d a l?
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . J A N SEN:

That's a lot of platinum.

M S . W A S TWEET:

I was going to suggest

t h a t w e - - t h a t t his might be well suited for
a n o t h e r p r o g r a m , but we're not quite there
yet.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

That's a technical--

o r t h i s i s n o t a technical question.

Let's

k e e p t o t h e t e c hnical questions, please.
M S . W A S TWEET:

Yeah, we're not quite

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there yet.
A n d t h e n Design 31, can we also talk
a b o u t w h a t ' s r a ised and sunk, for example?
M S . S T A FFORD:

Don and Steve, Design

M R . E V E RHART:

Well, obviously, the

31.

t h r e e f i g u r e s w ould be raised.

I could see

t h e a r e a t h a t e ncompasses $100 and one ounce
a s r a i s e d o f f t he field, and then the sun
i m a g e p o l i s h e d and incused with a raised
b o r d e r a n d i n c u sed lettering.
M S . W A S TWEET:

Now, the shading of

t h i s f i e l d a r e a behind the sun is gradated
with pencil.

W ould we try to mimic that

g r a d a t i o n i n a n y way?
complex.

That seems pretty

I s t h at to be a flat-M R . E V E RHART:
M R . A N T ONUCCI:

Steve?
I don't see any

p a r t i c u l a r c h a l lenges with that.
that.

We can do

W e c a n f rost that like that.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M S . W A S TWEET:

Is that all?
That's it.

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C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . J A N SEN:

Erik.

Just kind of assessing

c o m p l e x i t y o f s ome of these designs, and I
t h i n k p r o b a b l y the quintessential example
w o u l d b e t h e s e ries 3, 4, 5, and 6 where we
h a v e a s m a n y a s kind of four dominant fields.
J u s t l o o k i n g a t Design 3, for example, I've
g o t a p o r t r a i t on a stone precipice, I've got
a g l o b e , I ' v e g ot an eagle, and then I've got
a s u n k i n d o f i n descending sequence into the
background.

C a n we do that with the full

d e p t h o f f i e l d that we have here in the
relief?
M S . S T A FFORD:

They're consulting.

M R . E V E RHART:

What's the question

again?
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . J A N SEN:

The question is:

How

m a n y l a y e r s c a n you put in an Oreo cookie?
M R . E V E RHART:
M R . J A N SEN:
M R . E V E RHART:

I see four.
What's that?
I see four, not

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c o u n t i n g t h e f i eld.
M R . J A N SEN:
the field.

I see four, not counting

A n d there's no double stuff in

there, either.
M R . E V E RHART:

No, I would step them

d o w n s o t h a t i t accentuates the layering
effect.

I n o t h er words, step down from like

w h e r e h e r l e g i s on the globe, you know, that
c o u l d b e - - y o u w ant to keep that globe round or
a n i m a g e k i n d o f an illusion of round, but,
y o u k n o w , s t e p it back with each layer so that
y o u g e t a s m a x i mum differentiation between the
layers.
M R . J A N SEN:

Right.

Do we have

enough-M R . A N T ONUCCI:
enough detail.

I don't think we have

I don't think we have enough

d e p t h t o - - l o o k , this goes back to this design
y e s t e r d a y , C i v i l Air Patrol, with the
p r o p e l l e r , a n d there's just too much going on
here.
M R . J A N SEN:

Bingo.

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M R . A N T ONUCCI:

The globe is almost

g o i n g t o h a v e t o be flat.
r e l i e f y o u ' v e g ot there.

Think about the
How are you going to

p u t t h e b i r d b e hind that, the sun behind the
bird?

I m e a n , there's a lot going on there.
M R . E V E RHART:

I think we can do that.

M y o n l y p r o b l e m technically would be keeping
t h e g l o b e i n a kind of round form, but I think
the rest-M R . J A N SEN:

Yeah, we end up with the

b a c k o f t h e I k e dollar.
M R . E V E RHART:

The rest of it you

c o u l d s t e p b a c k and it would be effective.
B u t m a i n t a i n i n g the roundness of the globe
c o u l d b e a p r o b lem when it comes to that.

But

I s t i l l t h i n k t hat we could do it.
M R . J A N SEN:

Roundness meaning the

i m p l i e d s p h e r i c al.
M R . E V E RHART:
M R . J A N SEN:
M R . E V E RHART:

Yes.
Not circular round.
Right, right.

The dome

on it.

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M R . J A N SEN:

Yeah.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

All right.

I do want

t o p r e s e r v e a s much time for the committee as
p o s s i b l e t o l o o k at and comment on the designs
themselves.

W e 're scheduled to 10:30 for this

d i s c u s s i o n , s o if there are any other quick
t e c h n i c a l q u e s t ions, let's get those out of
t h e w a y s o w e c an get to our main discussion.
Are there any?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay.

I'm going to

e x e r c i s e t h e p r ivilege of the Chair.
going to start.

I'm

And I'm going to observe that

w e j u s t c a m e t h rough a program from 2009 to
2 0 1 4 t h a t w a s b ased on the Preamble to the
Constitution.

I'm going to suggest that we

l o o k a t w h a t e s sentially is the Preamble--I'm
c a l l i n g i t t h a t , call it the theme of the
D e c l a r a t i o n o f Independence, which is the
s e c o n d s e n t e n c e of the Declaration.

And as

s o o n a s I r e a d this, you will all understand
w h e r e I ' m g o i n g with this.

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It is:

"We hold these truths to be

s e l f -e v i d e n t t h at all men are created equal,
t h a t t h e y a r e e ndowed by their Creator with
c e r t a i n u n a l i e n able rights, that among these
a r e l i f e , l i b e r ty, and the pursuit of
happiness.
N o w , a s you know, number 17 captures
t h a t l a s t p h r a s e--"life, liberty, and the
p u r s u i t o f h a p p iness."
S o w h a t I'm going to throw out on the
t a b l e r i g h t n o w is that that is 2016, and for
2 0 1 5 w e d o a n " All Men Are Created Equal"
t h e m e , a n d t h e two- year program will be
e s s e n t i a l l y t h e Preamble to the Declaration of
I n d e p e n d e n c e , w hich I think is a wonderful
f o l l o w t o t h e P reamble to the Constitution.
S o I ' m for this design.
a n y d i s c u s s i o n s about anatomy.

I am open for
I know that

t h e r e a r e s o m e members concerned about that.
I t h i n k t h i s i s a wonderful design in that it
i s c o m p l e t e l y d ifferent than anything we have
done before.

I t is certainly in the vein of

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t h e a r t m e d a l t hat we've talked about in the
p a s t , a r t m e d a l s idea.

I think it would be a

w o n d e r f u l d e p a r ture for the program, but in
t h e s a m e b r e a t h , it would keep us in the same
v e i n a s w h a t w e just came through with the
P r e a m b l e t o t h e Constitution going to the
D e c l a r a t i o n t h i s time.
I w o u l d suggest that maybe if we did
t h i s , t h a t " A l l Men Are Created Equal" would
b e a d e s i g n t h a t would be related
s t y l i s t i c a l l y t o this design, but it would
r e q u i r e t h e M i n t artists, both internal and
e x t e r n a l , t o g o back to the drawing board, as
i t w e r e , t o c r e ate that first- year design.
S o t h o s e are my comments, and I think
- - w h e r e d o I w a nt to go from here?

Heidi,

w o u l d y o u l i k e to make your comments?
M S . W A S TWEET:

When looking at these

d e s i g n s , I l i k e to keep in mind the broader
p e r s p e c t i v e o f all the programs that we have
g o i n g r a t h e r t h an going in with blinders on
a n d l o o k i n g a t this as an isolated project.

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T h e C F A h a d d e n oted a preference for the two
e a g l e d e s i g n s , but we have another program
t h a t w e ' r e w o r k ing on that is an eagle series.
S o I t h i n k t h e s e designs, while they're
l o v e l y , m i g h t b e better bookmarked for our
c o n t i n u i n g e a g l e series rather than this
project.

S o r a ther than talk about the

q u a l i t y o f t h o s e designs and talking about the
a p p r o p r i a t e n e s s of them for this project, I
w o u l d h o p e t h a t we could exercise that option
t o s a v e t h e s e f or another project rather than
r e j e c t i n g t h e o nes that don't work here.
G a r y , I like your idea--it's fabulous
- - a b o u t u s i n g D esign 17 and creating a
c o m p a n i o n p i e c e of "All Men Are Created
Equal."

I t ' s a lot to ask to go back and

d e s i g n a n o t h e r piece, and maybe that project
w o u l d b e b e t t e r suited for our upcoming art
medal program.

So that's something for

d i s c u s s i o n r a t h er than--because we also need
t o c o n s i d e r o u r obverse here, if we can get
t h a t o n t h e s c r een, please.

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W e n e e d to keep in mind that we want a
f r o n t a n d b a c k too that makes sense.

So, Don

a n d S t e v e , i f y ou're going to weigh in a
l i t t l e o n t h e f illing coinability of having
t h i s i n c u s e d r e verse with this obverse?
M R . A N T ONUCCI:

Can we go back to that

design?
W e ' v e n ever done anything like this
before, and-M S . W A S TWEET:
M R . A N T ONUCCI:

I do love that.
It's a great design.

I ' m v e r y c o n c e r ned about the ability to fill
t h i s - - t h e a m o u n t of material we have to push
into this.

T h e re's a lot going on here.

M R . E V E RHART:
M R . A N T ONUCCI:

Platinum's very hard.
Yeah, it's extremely

h a r d t o m o v e p l atinum, and I'm just concerned
t h a t w e ' r e n o t going to see the lettering fill
t h e w a y w e w a n t it to incused like that, and
w e ' l l r u n i n t o starvation issues with this.
I f I h a d time to work this, I would
c e r t a i n l y l i k e to try something, but this

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p o s e s a l o t o f technical challenges.
e v e r y b o d y k n o w s me.

I think

That's what I like to do.

B u t t h i s o n e m a kes me take pause, I have to
say.

I t ' s j u s t very, very different.
M S . W A S TWEET:

Yeah, and so I love

t h i s d e s i g n , a n d I don't want to lose it.

But

I-M R . A N T ONUCCI:

No.

I think this

w o u l d b e f a n t a s tic in a medal.
M S . W A S TWEET:

But I'm not confident

i t ' s t h e r i g h t design for this platinum
program.
M R . A N T ONUCCI:

I would agree with

that.
M S . W A S TWEET:

So then I'm going to

m o v e o n p a s t t h e eagles and past 17.
g o i n g t o t a l k a bout Design 18.
this design.

I'm

I really love

I t's incredibly fluid.

It has

h a r m o n y o f t h e rolling fields and the rolling
s t r i p e s o f t h e flag.
C a u c a s i a n i n t h e face.

This is not overtly
It could be a

m u l t i t u d e o f e t hnicities, which we've been

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asking for.
design.

I ' m really attracted to this

I t c o m es to the top for me.
D e s i g n 26 stands out to me as very

h i g h q u a l i t y , b ut I can't quite get past the
s t r o n g G r e e k f e el of it.

I don't think it

s p e a k s t o w h e r e we are in this country today.
E v e n l o o k i n g b a ck to our predecessors, it's
s t i l l a r e a c h f or me to have the costumes so
very Greek.
T h e o t h er design that stands out to me
is number 6.

I love the texture of the rays,

t h e f o c a l p o i n t of the hand and the bird, and
t h e i n t e r a c t i o n between Liberty and Freedom I
t h i n k i s a r e a l ly good contemplation point.
I ' m v e r y c o n c e r ned about the lettering at the
b o t t o m , t h e 0 . 9 995 platinum.

We had this

p r o b l e m o n a n o t her platinum coin, the one with
t h e g e a r s b e h i n d it.

We had lettering running

o v e r a s t r o n g l y textured rock, and in the
f i n i s h e d p r o d u c t, it did not work well, in my
opinion.

A n d t here's not really any good

p l a c e t o m o v e t his lettering, and I don't want

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t o s t a r t m o v i n g elements around.

It's a

p r o b l e m a n d i t would have to be addressed in
the production.

If you made that block below

h e r f e e t , i f y o u made that very smooth, then
i f y o u w e n t v e r y light on the continents, it
could work.

S o if we go in this direction, I

w o u l d a s k a l i t tle discretion on the artist's
p a r t t o k e e p - - b e careful in that area.

But

t h e d e s i g n i t s e lf I like very much.
I ' m a l s o attracted to Design 8.
f o r e x a m p l e , i s a little too busy.

7,

It's a

v e r y s i m i l a r d e sign on 7, but 8 is more clean.
I t h i n k t h i s i s --the style of this is not
t r y i n g t o i m i t a te too much of any one style in
the past.

I t ' s not exactly modern, but it's

n o t e x a c t l y c l a ssic either.

It's a nice

o r i g i n a l l o o k , and it flows well.
l e g i s a l i t t l e short.
addressed.

I think the

That could be

B u t I'm very attracted to that

design as well.
T h o s e a re my favorites.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Heidi.

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Jeanne?
M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:

Thank you, Gary.

I h a v e to agree with Heidi and also
w i t h D o n t h a t t his--is this one?
P A R T I C I PANTS:

Yes.

M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:

That number 17,

a l t h o u g h i t ' s v ery different, very innovative
f r o m a n y t h i n g w e've had in the past, I don't
t h i n k t h i s i s a n appropriate design for this
p a r t i c u l a r p r o g ram.
A l s o , t he other thing is I think we
h a v e a n a t o m y p r oblems here, and, you know,
t h a t l e f t a r m b elongs to somebody else.

So I

w o u l d c a u t i o n o ur artists to pay attention a
l i t t l e m o r e t o bodies.

I mean, he doesn't

e v e n h a v e a s i x -pack.
( L a u g h t er.)
M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:

So from that, I

w o u l d l i k e t o j ust talk about the two pieces
t h a t I t h i n k c o mplement each other and would
p r o b a b l y g o b e s t with this series, and that's
n u m b e r 6 a n d n u mber 8.

I like the fact that

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t h e s e t w o L i b e r ty's, if they were side by
s i d e , t h e y w o u l d be looking toward each other.
I t h i n k t h a t t h at's a nice complement.
t h e c o s t u m e s i n both of them.

I like

They are

d i f f e r e n t f r o m our normal drapery.

I love the

f a c t t h a t , y o u know, there's some exposure
here.

I t ' s q u i te elegant, number 8.

She has

k i n d o f a n e t h e real quality about her that I
t h i n k w o u l d b e lovely to have.
N u m b e r 6 is a small problem for me in
t h a t L i b e r t y i s apparently feeding the eagle.
W e d i s c u s s e d t h is earlier.
gesture.

And I love this

I t ' s almost like a "come hither to

me" gesture.

I f we took away that vessel that

s h e ' s f e e d i n g t he eagle with and just had her
s t r e t c h i n g o u t to the eagle as though, you
k n o w , t h i s i s a n energy thing, a hope thing,
y o u k n o w , s o m e t hing else, I think this is a
b e a u t i f u l , a b s o lutely spectacular design.
I l o v e the fact that, you know, you've
z e r o e d i n o n t h at sun and you have Liberty and
t h e e a g l e t h e r e together.

That's quite

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lovely.
A s f a r as the platinum incusing, that
c o u l d j u s t b e m oved and set someplace else
maybe.
T h o s e a re my two choices, very strong
choices.

I c a n 't really speak too much to

Design 26.

I d on't think it's quite--although

i t ' s b e a u t i f u l , absolutely beautifully
r e n d e r e d , I ' m n ot sure this is appropriate for
this program.

I'd like to see it someplace

else.
A n d I r eally appreciate the artist's
v i s i o n i n n u m b e r 6 and number 8 to allow that
d e s i g n t o s p r e a d out into the text.
A n d , D o n, I don't think we're really
going backwards.

I think good design and good

q u a l i t y d r a w i n g s, sculpting, is important.
d o n ' t h a v e t o j ump always so far away from
t h i s a n d l e a v e our minters behind.
T h a n k y ou.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Jeanne.

Tom?

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M R . U R A M:

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

A s s o o n as number 17 came up, I said
t o J e a n n e , I s a id, "Boy, that's a great
medal."

A n d D a wn's comment in regards to

h a v i n g a m i r r o r ed piece would actually be
outstanding.

I f you had done that for 17 and

a m i r r o r e d p i e c e, I think it would be great.
Y o u c a n a l w a y s fix the anatomy and different
t h i n g s , b u t t h e only reason why I would not
c h o o s e 1 7 n o w i s based on what Steve and Don
h a v e s a i d a s f a r as the manufacturing part of
i t , b e c a u s e w e don't want to have another gear
i s s u e a s a t r i a l.

But I really did like the

i d e a o f h a v i n g the last two years being
s o m e t h i n g t o t h is stylistic, especially after
t h e C h a i r m a n ' s comments regarding the
phrasing.
S o h a v i ng said that, I guess we're not
g o i n g t o b e a b l e to pursue that.

That leaves

m e b a s i c a l l y w i th number 6 and number 8, and
o n e o f t h e t h o u ghts, exactly what Jeanne just
s a i d , I l o o k e d at it and said, "Oh, we're

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f e e d i n g t h e b i r d here," and--the eagle, I'm
sorry.

B u t o n e thing maybe that might take

t h e d e p t h a l i t tle bit on either number 6 or
n u m b e r 8 - - a n d I kind of lean towards number 8
a l i t t l e b i t m o re because of the--I'm sorry,
n u m b e r 6 - - 8- - I ' m missing one here.
4.

I'm sorry.

4.

There we go.

Go back to
I like

e i t h e r o f t h o s e 4, 5, or 6 in regards to the
eagle in flight.

But what if we just took the

s u n b u r s t o u t o f that and had a three- layer
i n s t e a d o f t h e four layers?
us?

S t e v e ' s n o dding yes.

Would that help
You think that

w o u l d b e a n o p p ortunity to maybe make it work
a l i t t l e b i t m o re?
M R . A N T ONUCCI:

What do you think,

Don?
M R . E V E RHART:
M R . U R A M:

What is the advantage?

That you wouldn't have four

l a y e r s , a n d t h e n you were concerned about the
Earth.
M R . E V E RHART:
i s a l m o s t l i n e a r.

Well, the sun actually

It could be treated almost

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i n a l i n e a r f a s hion with very low relief.

So,

I m e a n , u n l e s s you don't like it as a design-M R . U R A M:

Well, I guess the negative

s p a c e t h e r e m i g ht enhance the other three
layers.
M R . E V E RHART:
different issue.

Well, yeah, that's a

I think it's legitimate,

yeah.
M R . U R A M:

So if we go with one of

t h o s e , I t h i n k my motion would be to eliminate
t h a t a n d e n h a n c e the others in my thought
there.
T h e o t h er one that I did like also was
18.

I t h o u g h t that 18 was a dynamic design

t h e r e , a n d i t h as all the motifs that we're
l o o k i n g f o r , a n d I think that would make a
great one.
S o w i t h that, Mr. Chairman, those are
where I fall.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Tom.

W e ' l l g o to Herman.
M R . A N T ONUCCI:

I just wanted to say

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s o m e t h i n g r e a l quick, Tom, about these designs
l i k e t h i s w i t h the multi- small rays.

Would it

b e a n i s s u e f o r the committee if we had to
r e d u c e t h e n u m b er of rays and maybe widen them
up a little bit.

I have a lot of concern

a b o u t h o w t h i n and spindly these are.
m a y b e c o m e a p r oblem to fill.

These

It becomes a

m e c h a n i c a l i s s u e at some point.

I don't know

t h e r e ' s a s i g n i ficance to the number of rays
h e r e o n t h e s u n or not, but-U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:

I'm betting

there's 50.
M R . A N T ONUCCI:

This may be one of

t h o s e t h i n g s w e find through the development
p r o c e s s , t h a t w e have to reduce the number of
r a y s a n d w i d e n them up to get them to fill.
M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:
t e c h n i c a l q u e s t ion.

Steve, this is a

If you did that, could

y o u a l s o e x t e n d those rays so that they fill
m o r e o f t h a t f i eld?
M R . A N T ONUCCI:
that.

We could certainly do

E x t e n d i n g the rays would not be an

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issue.
M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:

Yeah, but if

t h e y w e r e f e w e r and more extended, it might
b e - - w e ' d h a v e a -M R . A N T ONUCCI:

Yeah, I would actually

p r e f e r t o g o t h at direction than short and
s p o k e -l i k e .
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

You know what?

My

c o n c e r n i f y o u extend those rays is then
y o u ' r e s t a b b i n g her in the face.
M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:
M R . E V E RHART:

No, the face--

Getting back to the

r e l i e f i s s u e w i th the sun, I mean, the sun
p a r t i n t h e m i d dle where the hand and the
e a g l e h e a d a r e would be field, so that
w o u l d n ' t b e r e l ief at all.

So, I mean,

t e c h n i c a l l y - - I mean, I'm not as versed on
t h e s e i s s u e s a s Steve is, but I don't see that
a s b e i n g a p r o b lem relief- wise.

Whether it's

a p r o b l e m a s f a r as the thinness of the rays,
w e l l , t h a t ' s a different issue.
M R . U R A M:

I'm looking at more or less

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o n n u m b e r 4 , t h ough, as far as what I'm
l o o k i n g a t i t m ore on this one where it would
- - i f w e w e n t w i th this direction, we would
h a v e - - I m e a n , i t's just kind of plotted back
there.

R e a l l y , if it wasn't there, I think-M R . E V E RHART:

It would simplify the

design.
M R . U R A M:

Yeah, I think it's cleaner.

M R . E V E RHART:

Yeah, I would agree

with that.
M R . U R A M:

And I kind of like--I do

l i k e t h a t b e t t e r than the eagle being fed.
D R . V I O LA:

Okay.

First of all, I

t h i n k t h e s e d r a wings are wonderful, but I have
a t e c h n i c a l q u e stion, I guess, because you
k e e p r e f e r r i n g to like little problems with
a n a t o m y a n d t h i ngs.
in stone?

Are these drawings cast

Y o u know, because a number of them

y o u ' d w a n t t o m ake some technical changes, but
c a n ' t y o u j u s t fix that and say, oh, that arm,
y o u ' r e r i g h t , i t doesn't belong to somebody
else.

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B u t , o t herwise, I think like 17 is
wonderful.

I ' v e never seen anything like it.

A n d I w as glad to hear then you have
an eagle series.

You have to realize I have

v e r y l i t t l e b a c kground in any of what has gone
o n , a n d I l o v e birds and I love eagles.

And I

t h o u g h t , w o w , I loved 22.
M y w i f e is a children's librarian, and
I w a s r e a l l y s t ruck by 26.
c o u n t r y o f e d u c ators.

You know, we are a

We're trying to prove

t o t h e w o r l d , y ou know, that everyone gets
educated.

A n d I thought, boy, you put 26

t o g e t h e r w i t h 2 2, and, you know, it's America
a n d e d u c a t i o n , reading is so profoundly
important.

B u t then, again, you know, I

d i d n ' t t h i n k a b out she looks like a Greek
goddess.

S o t h ese are the kind of things I

d o n ' t l o o k i n t o too much at this point.
S o , y o u know, like I say, I would love
t o s e e 1 7 a s a design, and, you know, I guess
I w o u l d - - m y f i r st choice would be 26.

But

t h e n s o m e o f t h ese other ones that you've

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t a l k e d a b o u t , y ou know, I really like the idea
o f h a v i n g t h e e agle in there with the Liberty.
S o I ' d s a y I l i ke 5--or 6, rather, and I'd go
with that.

I t hink it's a very powerful one.

A n d I ' m n o t s u r e she's feeding that eagle.

I

t h o u g h t y o u m i g ht just say, come over here,
w a v e a t m e o r s omething.

So that's where I am

w i t h t h i s p r o g r am.
M S . S T A FFORD:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M S . S T A FFORD:

Mr. Chairman?
Yes?
After some conversation

o n t h i s s i d e o f the table, I do apologize, but
n u m b e r 1 7 , a s y ou guys have eked out, really
s h o u l d n o t h a v e been included in this
p o r t f o l i o f o r t he metal that is being used.
It's platinum.

I apologize that it was.

But

a f t e r c o n v e r s a t ion, we really should take that
o u t o f c o n t e n t i on because of the vehicle.
S o , a g a in, I apologize, because it is
a g o r g e o u s d e s i gn, and I really appreciate
w h e r e y o u w e r e going with that.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

It was--

Well, thank you for

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that.

I w a s a b out ready to make a comment

that-M S . S T A FFORD:

Yes.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

--I really didn't

u n d e r s t a n d w h y that was in the portfolio and
w h y I a n d o t h e r s on this committee spent so
m u c h t i m e a n d e nergy trying to figure out how
to make it work.
M S . S T A FFORD:

Absolutely.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Just to come to this

p u b l i c m e e t i n g and be told that it won't work.
S o I d o a p p r e c i ate that acknowledgment.
M S . S T A FFORD:

We understand.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . S C A RINCI:

So, Donald?
Well, you know, I'm

g l a d y o u s h o w e d it to us.
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . S C A RINCI:

You know, because it

s h o w s - - i t c e r t a inly shows me the kind of thing
t h a t ' s g o i n g o n in Philadelphia, and this
m a k e s m e h a v e h ope.

It really does.

So I

a p p r e c i a t e t h a t it's here, you know, even

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t h o u g h w e c a n ' t do it for this particular
coin.

I h o p e , you know, the instruction about

a n a t o m y , y o u g o back to the artist, give-d e f i n i t e l y g i v e the--I would speak for myself
i f n o t f o r e v e r ybody, but certainly for
m y s e l f , g i v e t h e artist positive feedback from
u s o n t h i s p a r t icular design.
H o p e f u l ly we'll see it--you know, let
h i m w o r k o n i t , him or her work on it, and,
y o u k n o w , m a y b e we can see it again.

You

k n o w , m a y b e w e can do a mirror image, you
k n o w , w i t h a w o man and do it as a medal in the
medal program.
on something.

But I hope we see this again
You know, so thank you for--you

k n o w , I t h i n k i t was nevertheless a good
i n c l u s i o n j u s t to allow us to see it.
Y o u k n o w, the rest--you know, first-y o u k n o w , I h o n estly don't--I mean, this is
o n e o f t h e s e r i es of coins, of U.S. coins, you
k n o w , a n d I ' m o ne of the people that I buy
e v e r y t h i n g - - y o u know I buy everything the Mint
d o e s e x c e p t f o r , you know, the gold bullion.

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A n d t h i s i s o n e of the series I buy and
collect.

I h a v e no idea why I do it, because

I r e a l l y - - i t ' s just not my taste.
d e s i g n s a r e n o t my taste.

These

You know, it's not

s o m e t h i n g I b u y when I see an art medal.

It's

s o m e t h i n g I k i n d of pass over and gloss over.
M R . N O R TON:

(off microphone)

M R . S C A RINCI:

I, you know--well, I--

( L a u g h t er.)
M R . S C A RINCI:

When you look at my

a c c o u n t , y o u c a n--I probably employ a person
e v e r y y e a r w i t h what I spend at the Mint.
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . S C A RINCI:

You know, but--so, I

m e a n , l o o k , t h i s is just not my taste.
k n o w , I m e a n , w hat can I say?

You

And, you know,

i t ' s j u s t d o n e and over, and it's not what I'm
l o o k i n g f o r i n the future.
t h a t a n d s a y i n g that.
o f t h e w o r l d i s doing.
has moved on.

And I keep saying

It's not what the rest
The rest of the world

I'm hoping we can move on.

A n d , y o u know, I'd probably, just to

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g e t t h i s o v e r w ith by 10:30, you know- -and
b e c a u s e w e ' r e g oing to go with these designs
a n y w a y - - a n d i t ' s consistent with the rest of
the series.

I mean, the rest of the series is

just like this.

So there's nothing wrong with

6 a n d - - y o u k n o w , there's nothing wrong with 6
and 8.

Y o u k n o w, as to Design 6, you know, I

k i n d o f - - I k i n d of like the fact that the
e a g l e i s s t a n d i ng on Canada.
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . S C A RINCI:

You know, it kind of

s h o w s C a n a d a t h e eagle's ours.

And, you know,

m a y b e - - y o u k n o w , maybe for artists, American
a r t i s t s w h o , y o u know, are always doing
e a g l e s , y o u k n o w, maybe we should consider an
e m p l o y m e n t a g r e ement so that, you know,
A u s t r a l i a c a n ' t take our eagle, too.

You

k n o w , s o t h a t w e don't have some new engraver
f r o m t h e U . S . M int doing things for foreign
g o v e r n m e n t s u s i ng eagles that were worked on
e n d l e s s l y , y o u know, obviously here, in
c o n c e p t a t l e a s t, in the United States Mint.

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( L a u g h t er.)
M R . S C A RINCI:

See, I can write, too.

A n d , y o u know, I--so I think--and I
t h i n k , y o u k n o w , what I would say to the CFA,
r e s p e c t f u l l y , i s that, you know, we are--you
k n o w , w e a r e g o ing to do eagles.

You know,

w h e n w e d o e a g l es, when the United States Mint
d o e s e a g l e s , t h ey will be better eagles than
a n y m i n t i n t h e world will do.

And, you know,

t h e s e e a g l e s , y ou know, are not our best
eagles.

W e ' v e seen amazing eagles in this

committee.

I m ean, there are amazing designs

f o r e a g l e s t h a t our artists have done.

These

a r e n o t t h o s e a mazing designs.
A n d s o , with respect, and obviously
t h e r e ' s t u r n o v e r in all of these boards, and
t h e r e ' s t u r n o v e r in the CFA as well as
t u r n o v e r h e r e a t the CCAC, you know, and coins
a r e j u s t a t i n y fraction of what they do at
t h e C F A , a n d w e recognize that and respect
w h a t t h e y d o a t the CFA.

We certainly respect

t h e i r t r a i n i n g in art at the CFA.

You know,

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b u t a l i t t l e m o re time, you know, and, you
k n o w , a l i t t l e more study, you know, I'm sure
w i l l c o r r e c t , y ou know, some of the selections
t h a t t h e y h a v e come up with during at least
t h i s l a s t c y c l e , especially these eagles.
S o t h e y 're on the agenda to say
s o m e t h i n g a b o u t the eagles.

I think it's a

g o o d o p p o r t u n i t y to send that message to the
C o m m i s s i o n o n F ine Arts with respect, you
k n o w , a n d - - a b o u t the eagles.
S o w i t h that said, I mean, you know,
w i t h t h a t s a i d , you know, I'm just--I'm going
t o g o a l o n g w i t h--I'm going to go along with
t h e f e e d i n g e a g le on the top of Canada, and
I ' m g o i n g t o g o along with number 8.

I think

n u m b e r 8 i s a c leaner design than number 7.
W e g o t r i d o f t he eagle out of 7 because we've
g o t t h e e a g l e i n 6.

So, you know, that's it.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Donald.

L e t ' s g o to Robert.
M R . H O G E:
hear me?

Thank you, Gary.

T h a n k you.

Can you

I have a couple of

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g e n e r a l o b s e r v a tions on this series.
I n o t i c ed that there's an extreme
a m o u n t o f c l a s s icizing in these things, as
s o m e o f u s h a v e already observed.

We see

t h e s e a l l e g o r i c al representations all in the
G r e c o -R o m a n s o r t of mode with the exceptions
o f D e s i g n s 1 a n d 10, which we rejected, are
t h e o n l y o n e s s howing people in modern
garments.
A l s o , n umber 20 and number 21, we also
rejected.

T h e y 're the only ones showing any

o t h e r m o d e r n a s pects in the sense of the
b u i l d i n g s t h a t are portrayed.

This is kind of

curious.
A n o t h e r thing is we see all of the
c l a s s i c a l r e p r e sentations of Liberty--Libertas
h e r e - - m o s t l y w i th bare feet, which is not so
classical.

T h i s is a little bit more sort of

a r o m a n t i c e l e m ent, although we do see perhaps
i n n u m b e r 3 0 s h e appears to be wearing what
m i g h t b e b a t h s andals of some sort, and number
2 5 , k i n d o f a h eftier sandal, sort of a

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Birkenstock.
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . H O G E:

Number 6, I do like this

d e s i g n , a n d I m ight comment that this is
a n o t h e r v e r y c l assicizing image.

On Roman

c o i n s , w e v e r y frequently see examples of the
g o d d e s s r e p r e s e nting health, Salus, feeding a
s n a k e f r o m a d i sh.

The dish is a patera.

I t ' s n o t a l i t t le cup- like bowl of this sort.
B u t t h i s i s a t raditional gesture of health
a n d w e l l -b e i n g .
animal.

This is nourishing the

W e m i g ht want to change that.

It

l o o k s l i k e h e r e as though the eagle is perhaps
t r y i n g t o b i t e her finger rather than to dip
i n t o t h e b o w l , but that's another story.
S e v e r a l points.
o f u s h a v e l i k e d this.

Number 18, a number
I'm wondering what has

h a p p e n e d w i t h L ady Liberty's legs.

Now,

h a v i n g m y s e l f s ustained a broken femur as a
c h i l d , I t h i n k that there are elements of this
w h i c h k i n d o f m ake my stomach turn.

And in

t h e b a c k g r o u n d , I see three enormous

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watermelons.

A nd in the size of a small coin,

I ' m w o n d e r i n g a bout those three watermelons
a n d j u s t e x a c t l y what the goddess with the
b r o k e n l e g i s d oing sitting on top of them.
S h e ' s k i n d o f a small feature.

Thank you.

T h e r e a re several points here.
liked number 17.

I

We're not considering that

a n y m o r e , I g u e s s, for our series.
h a v e s o m e p r o b l ems, too.

But it does

We see a very

r e a l i s t i c -l o o k i ng, finely detailed face and
t o r s o , a n d t h e rest of the anatomy, with the
e x c e p t i o n o f t h e left arm of someone else, but
l o o k a t t h e s w o rd.

This is an extreme

c a r i c a t u r e o f a sword.
stick thing.

It's like a little toy

A nd also the--I suppose it's an

o l i v e b r a n c h i n the left hand is also
e x t r e m e l y s t y l i zed, and neither of these
a t t r i b u t e s i s i n keeping with the extremely
a c c u r a t e d e t a i l of the human figure, which is
s o m e t h i n g w e m i ght want to address, should
t h i s e v e r c o m e up in the future.
N u m b e r 4, to move back to that, is a

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d e s i g n w h i c h I do like.

All of these, though

- - 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 - - s eem a little bit overly
d e t a i l e d , a n d t he layering of the mountains in
t h e b a c k g r o u n d , the foreground, to show the
d e p t h o f t h e s e with the world and the sun, the
e a g l e , t h e f i g u re, I think this is just a
l i t t l e b i t m o r e complex than anything that
s h o u l d b e a t t e m pted on the surface of as small
a n o b j e c t a s a coin.

And the Earth needs to

b e s h o w n a s s o m ewhat convex.

This might be

r e a l l y t o o d i f f icult for any of those
p a r t i c u l a r d e s i gns.
I t ' s h a rd for me to select anything as
a p a r t i c u l a r f a vorite among these.

There are

s o m e v e r y a t t r a ctive pieces, and I think I
p r o b a b l y w o u l d have to go with the pair of 7
and 8.

I t a p p e als to me to see what we assume

i s L i b e r t y h e r e wearing this extremely
diaphanous gown.
all the images.

This is the most alluring of
And I do find that rather

appealing.
( L a u g h t er.)

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U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:
M R . H O G E:

Okay, okay.

Careful.
Yes, this is

o n e t h a t p r o b a b ly wouldn't have passed the
c e n s o r s i n 1 9 1 6 , or perhaps either the
e d u c a t i o n a l s e r ies problems in the 1890s.
B u t s p e aking of that, if we look at
n u m b e r 2 6 , t h e beautiful image of the Greek
g o d d e s s w i t h t h e two little curly- haired Greek
c h i l d r e n , t h i s harkens back a lot to the
e d u c a t i o n a l s e r ies of the United States paper
m o n e y , w h i c h w a s known as being the most
b e a u t i f u l b u t a lso the most difficult to
p o r t r a y i n a s e nse where the printing could be
c o n t r o l l e d p r o p erly.

I like this one, but

h e r e t h e g o d d e s s doesn't really say Liberty,
i f y o u l o o k a t her.
her children.

It's a Greek woman with

Now, just who is that?

A n d i n many other instances, Liberty
i s n o t s h o w n e x actly in a recognizable form.
M y f a v o r i t e s , n umber 7 and 8, show her as a
n e a r l y n u d e w o m an holding a torch and a
branch.

W e h a v e to remember that Liberty has

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s p e c i f i c a t t r i b utes when she is shown as an
a l l e g o r i c a l p e r sonification.

These are

m i s s i n g o n m a n y of our classical figures in
a l l t h e s e r e p r e sentations.
T h a n k y ou.
D R . B U G EJA:

I'd like to thank you,

R o b e r t , f o r y o u r detailed explanation.

It's

i m p o r t a n t t h a t we have educational or historic
o r n u m i s m a t i c p oints when we critique these,
b e c a u s e w e a l l are here because we have a
s p e c i a l e x p e r t i se, and mine is in numismatics.
S o I ' d l i k e t o go first to number 26.
N o w , i n the description of 26, there
i s a c o n c e p t t h at's used that's near and dear
t o m y h e a r t a s a journalist, and that is, the
First Amendment.
f r o m a n e w s p a p e r.

Imagine if she was reading
Now imagine if it was from

an iPad.

N o w i magine if it is from Google

Glasses.

T h e r e is a reason why we use

c l a s s i c a l i m a g e s, because otherwise we get
kitsch.
S o n o w let's go to 17, and let's do a

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s e r i o u s e x e g e s i s of what's wrong with this.
A t f i r s t I l i k e d it because it was different,
a n d e v e n t h o u g h , April, it should have been
t a k e n o u t ; i t i s in this batch, so we have to
c o n s i d e r i t b a s ed on open records.
I f y o u take a look at this, there are
s o m a n y t h i n g s - -the more Jeanne challenged me
t o t a k e a g o o d look at it--and I'm going to
s h o w y o u s o m e t hings that I question.
the sword.

Y o u 're absolutely right.

First,
The nice

t h i n g a b o u t t h i s sword is it's vibrating.

The

b a d t h i n g a b o u t the art is Mr. Liberty is
vibrating.

T h a t's one problem.

N u m b e r two, this is not new.
Art Deco.

A n d if you take a look at the

a n a t o m y w i t h t h e arm, that's off.
h o l d i n g a s t y l i zed branch.
that is.

This is

He's

I don't know why

H e u s es two different fonts, one

w i t h s e r i f a n d then one with not under
platinum.

I f y ou take a look at "Life,

L i b e r t y , a n d t h e," take a look at "and the,"
" t h e " i s c a l l e d a "widow" in graphic design.

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I t ' s h a n g i n g t h ere.

The "and" should be

b r o u g h t o v e r , a nd they should be in lower
font.

" P u r s u i t of Happiness," there's no

h y p h e n o n " H a p p iness," suggesting it's
misplaced.

A n d then we have "United States of

A m e r i c a " i n s o m ewhat different font.
N o w , I looked up some art medals of
A r t D e c o , a n d y ou see this all over the place.
Y o u k n o w , t h i s could have been on the yearbook
o f m y 1 9 7 0 g r a d uation from St. Peter's
College.

T h i s is not new.

The second thing

a b o u t i t i s i f you look under "kitsch," you
s t a r t t o g e t t h is in the 1980s and 1990s.

So

b e r e a l l y c a r e f ul when you do these types of
medals.

T h i n k about the font, think about

s m a l l t h i n g s l i ke the vibration, and stylized
designs.

W h a t this is is different, and I

respect that.

It is different.

But I can be

improved.
I ' d l i k e to go to number 6, and I
l i k e , I r e a l l y do like Jeanne's pairing.
t h i n k J e a n n e ' s pairing is good for the

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o r i e n t a t i o n o f 6 versus 8 or 6 versus 7.

I

t h i n k t h a t ' s - - I 'm aware of the 1960 and 1970
q u a r t e r i s s u e c oming back, but I'm not too
bothered by it.
I w o u l d like to go to number 6,
t h o u g h , a n d t h i s is another personification of
the eagle.

I c an see Stephen Colbert putting

t h i s u p t h e r e s aying that she's feeding it
pistachios.

O k ay?

So what you've got--you've

g o t t o b e r e a l l y careful with personifications
o f e a g l e s o r t r eating them as animals.
an icon.

I c o n s don't eat.

It's

They're eternal.

S o a n o utstretched hand that is
w e l c o m i n g i s i n teresting.
whole design.

It changes the

If you put a piece of laurel

l e a f o r o l i v e b ranch in there, it changes the
focus.

I f y o u put arrows in there, it changes

the focus again.
this design.

So be really careful about

I would simply remove the dish,

a n d I w o u l d a l m ost make the hand a more
w e l c o m i n g g e s t u re with the bird not looking to
e a t , b u t m a y b e the bird looking at Liberty.

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T h a t s u g g e s t s a n interaction between the eyes.
I d o l i ke some of the eagles.
they work.

I think

I ' m not sure about number 18.

l i k e t o g o t o n umber 18.

I'd

It's very hard for

m e t o d i s a g r e e with my friend and colleague
H e i d i , b u t I d o not know what those are.
t h i n k t h e y ' r e h ills.

I

But I think that might

be lost.
T h a n k y ou, Mr. Chairman.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Michael.

W e ' l l c ircle over to Mary.
M S . L A N NIN:

Okay.

I'm going to make

m y c o m m e n t s v e r y brief.
M u c h a s I love 17, it's not in
c o n s i d e r a t i o n , so we won't be talking about
it.

I w o u l d l i ke it saved for future

c o n s i d e r a t i o n f or another program.

I thought

i t w a s v e r y i n t eresting, and I would like to
s e e a f e m a l e c o mpanion piece to it.
I h a v e to say that my two favorites
a r e a c t u a l l y w h at Jeanne suggested, number 3
a n d n u m b e r 6 , b ut perhaps I'm stating the

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o b v i o u s , a n d n o one has mentioned it yet.
d o n ' t l i v e i n S outh America.
United States.

We

We live in the

And that's the same

o r i e n t a t i o n o n the globe on every single
thing.

S o e v e n though Don wants the eagle

s t a n d i n g o n C a n ada's head, I'd like to move
t h e e a g l e a l i t tle bit north, if you don't
mind.

I w o u l d like to see the United States

be on the globe.
I d o l i ke the idea that a number of
p e o p l e h a v e m e n tioned, taking the patera, or
d i s h , a w a y f r o m Liberty's hand.

I like

M i c h a e l ' s i d e a of having the eagle look up
j u s t a l i t t l e b it.

But on the whole, I think

t h a t t h o s e a r e two very good companion pieces,
a n d I w o u l d v o t e for them.
M R . M O R AN:

Gary, I'm going to be

m e r c i f u l l y b r i e f as well.

6 I like.

I like

i t b e c a u s e o f t he fact that you have the hand
a n d t h e e a g l e ' s head in the negative space of
the sun.

I t h i nk that's what really does it.

R e g a r d l e s s o f h ow you shape the head or

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w h e t h e r y o u t a k e the bowl away, it needs to be
within that orb.
T h e c o m ment on the choice of
p o s i t i o n i n g o f the globe is correct.

We need

t o h a v e t h e U n i ted States there.
I o r i g i nally thought that 7 was the
b e t t e r o n e o f t he next series versus 8, but
t h e m o r e I l o o k at it, the more I think that
t h e e a g l e ' s w i n gs get in the way of Liberty,
a n d i t n e e d s t o be simplified, and 8 is the
better one.

I ' ll be voting for it as well.

1 7 I w o uld have voted for.

I'm

s u r p r i s e d n o b o d y has talked about 31.

I will

j u s t b r i e f l y , e veryone though I don't think
i t ' s g o i n g t o g o anywhere.

I think it's worth

a n h o n o r a b l e m e ntion in that, again, you've
g o t a n i c e , s t y lized sun, the flame.

You've

g o t t h e e t h n i c diversity here of the United
S t a t e s a s t o w h ere we want to be as opposed to
where we are.

You see moving forward, the

" U n i t e d W e S t a n d" with the hands.
T h e r e ' s a lot of symbolism here.

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s u n , I r e a l l y d o like that sun.

It's a

w o r t h w h i l e d e s i gn, and it deserves some kudos
f r o m u s a s w e w ent through this review.
I ' m d o n e.
M R . J A N SEN:

I'm going to say

s o m e t h i n g a b o u t 17, and then I'm going to move
on.
1 7 i s a Coin of the Year winner, and
i f t h e M i n t a n d this effort, this committee,
a s p i r e s t o e l e v ate our position
i n t e r n a t i o n a l l y as innovative thinkers, I
d o n ' t t h i n k t h i s is a reversion Art Deco, and
I d o n ' t t h i n k t he defects to the sword--yeah,
i t l o o k s l i k e a cardboard sword that my son
m a d e w h e n h e w a s eight.

That can be fixed.

A n d I t h i n k t h e fundamental feel of 17, feel
o f 1 7 i s w h a t i s so powerful.
A n d s o , I would ask--seriously I would
a s k t h a t t h e M i nt go back to the artist and
a s k f o r a p a i r i ng of that, if only to explore
p o s s i b l e u s e s i n the future.

I think it is so

d i f f e r e n t , i t i s so distinctive, and with kind

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o f a f l a t f i e l d , with incused features, you
c a n s t a n d o u t b y doing what everybody else is
d o i n g b e t t e r , o r you can stand out by doing
s o m e t h i n g t h a t is better, just flat- out
d i f f e r e n t b e t t e r.

And I think 17 should not

b e l o s t i n t h e bone pile here.
N o w , i n terms of picking a pair of
i m a g e s f o r p l a t inum over the next two years, I
w a s f o n d o f t h e 3, 4, 5, 6 series.

I'm

s e n s i t i v e t o t h e technical challenges that I
a s k e d e a r l y o n , and I think image 6 gets
a r o u n d t h a t m u l ti-varied depth challenge.

I'm

s e n s i t i v e t o t h e eagle needs to sit on the
U n i t e d S t a t e s a nd not Canada.

I think the

g l o b e n e e d s t o spin around a bit.

That is a

v e r y N o r t h e r n H emisphere- preferring view of
t h e E a r t h , a n d it could be neutralized, the
e q u a t o r b r o u g h t up, and the eagle moved to the
U n i t e d S t a t e s , footing at least.
S o I a g ree with all those comments,
a n d I a l s o w a s especially drawn to the
c o m m e n t - - a n d I think, Michael, you started it,

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a n d I t h i n k i t was reiterated on my left here
- - a b o u t t h e e a g le and Liberty maybe needing to
m a k e e y e n o t h a nd contact.

And I think that

i s t h e c o r r e c t i on here to--because, Michael, I
d o n ' t k n o w w h a t we're going to do the day we
d o n ' t h a v e y o u as kind of the keeper of all
i n t e g r i t y o f s y mbols and mottoes and
instruments.

B ut I think that's right.

So 6

i s g o i n g t o g e t support from me.
W h e n I look at the CFA's election of
2 2 a n d 9 , I c a n only come to one conclusion,
a n d t h a t i s , " I t's going to be an eagle, damn
it."
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . J A N SEN:

Sorry.

Bicentennial.

A n d s o i n t h a t respect, I would favor 7 over 8
i n a c k n o w l e d g i n g their preferences, and
p e r h a p s c o m i n g to middle ground with the kind
o f i m a g e t h a t o therwise 8 would carry.
I a c t u a lly like the negative space in
8 b e t t e r , b u t i t's a compromise here.

And so

I ' m a c t u a l l y g o ing to spin a little support to

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7 t o a c c o m m o d a t e that.

That design, while not

m y f a v o r i t e , 7 and 8 combo, it does carry the
c a l i b e r - - I t h i n k the word was "ethereal."
R o b e r t m a y h a v e had actually a better word
than that.
M S . L A N NIN:

Diaphanous.

M R . J A N SEN:

And with such a word, I

g e t a w a y w i t h t he fears of 1916 again and the
a n a t o m i c a l i s s u es, because I don't think--I
d o n ' t k n o w w h a t that word means, so I'm
c o m f o r t a b l e w i t h it.
3 1 f e e l s like an Olympic medal to me.
3 0 i s n ot bad.
attention.

It's gotten no

I t hink 30 could actually be made

i n t o a r a t h e r s pectacular design through the
a r t a n d m a g i c o f selective surface textures by
Steve.
M R . M O R AN:

It's already been done.

S a i n t -G a u d e n s d id it.
M R . J A N SEN:

Fair argument.

I c a n ' t support 22.

I think better

a n d o t h e r e a g l e s have been done.

I can't

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support 9.

I t hink better and other eagles

have been done.
S o , p l e ase, bring 17 and more like it
b a c k f o r a n o t h e r progr am, another coin,
a n o t h e r o p p o r t u nity, because that--that's an
image maker.
T h a n k y ou, Chairman.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Erik.

I ' m g o i ng to extend my remarks a
l i t t l e b i t h e r e , having seen the committee's
d i r e c t i o n a n d t he focus that we're taking.
W h e n w e t h i n k a bout Designs 3, 4, 5, 6, it's
o b v i o u s t o m e i t's the same artist, and I
g u e s s t h e p r o b l em I have with all four of
t h e s e - - a n d , y e a h, I don't care which one you
put up there.

It's a little bit of stylistic

overload.
D o w e w ant to have seated Liberty, in
this case on 3?

Let's have seated Liberty and

m a y b e a s h i e l d , but Liberty, the Earth, the
e a g l e , a s u n , i t's just too much.

While

t h e r e ' s n i c e n e gative space here, I think this

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m a y b e m i g h t b e a case of stylistic crowding,
w h e r e t h e r e ' s j ust too much here.

It's hard

f o r m e t o p r o c e ss really what the message is.
T h e r e a r e s e v e r al messages coming out of these
four.
S o I t h ink we're going to pick number
6.

W e c o u l d g o there.

I wish that there were

s o m e - - I w i s h s o me of these elements could go
away.

A n d i t a ppears we're going to pair it

w i t h n u m b e r 8 , which, you know, 8's a decent
design.

T h i s i s an example where there's more

o f a f o c u s t o t his design.

There's a singular

m e s s a g e c o m i n g out of this design of Liberty
a n d h o l d i n g t h e torch, the branch in her hand.
I t h i n k t h a t ' s - -it's a nice drawing.
I t ' s a little more classical than I'd
l i k e t o s e e u s go at this point, but as
s o m e b o d y p o i n t e d out, it is where the series
has gone.

A n d maybe that's okay for the next

c o u p l e o f y e a r s to continue that, and when we
g e t t o t h e l a n d mark year, in '17, maybe we can
d o s o m e t h i n g d i fferent, or in '18 immediately

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thereafter.
S o I r e ally don't want to design by
c o m m i t t e e , s o w hatever the committee does,
I ' l l b e f i n e w i th, I'll support.

But I just

h a v e s o m e c o n c e rns about whichever year it
b e c o m e s , t h e o n e that's--whichever year ends
up as Design 6.

I think Design 8 will do well

f o r t h e p l a t i n u m series.
S o w i t h that, are there any quick
f o l l o w -u p s ?

W e only have about five minutes

l e f t o n t h i s s u bject if we stay to our agenda,
b u t I ' d e n t e r t a in a few follow- up comments, if
t h e r e a r e a n y , that you feel important to be
made.

Robert?
M R . H O G E:

Gary.

One point I'm observing,

I f w e w e re to conceivably select number

6 a n d p a i r i t w ith number 7 or number 8, I
t h i n k i t m i g h t be advisable in order to make
t h e m m o r e o f a pair to remove the linear
i n t e r i o r b o r d e r on number 6 so that it would
b e m o r e o f a m a tch and try to make the
l e t t e r i n g m a t c h between the two, if we were to

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g o i n t h a t d i r e ction.
A l s o , a lthough I like number 8 a bit
m o r e t h a n n u m b e r 7, I think the inclusion of
t h e e a g l e i s p r obably necessary in this sort
o f t h i n g b e c a u s e this is, after all, the
P l a t i n u m E a g l e Series, right?

So I can see

w h e r e t h e C F A w as going on that--and not that
w e h a v e t o f o l l ow them, but I think the
i n c l u s i o n o f a n eagle is probably a good idea.
T h e i n c lusion of a Liberty on the
r e v e r s e , o n t h e other hand, is something of a
r e d u n d a n c y , s i n ce we always have the Statue of
Liberty obverse.

That's also something to

think about.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
points, Robert.

Those are good

I appreciate those.

It is

t h e A m e r i c a n P l atinum Eagle Series for sure.
S o t h o s e a r e p o ints well taken.
A n y o t h er comments?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay.

So what we're

g o i n g t o d o n o w is go to our scoring, and I'll

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a s k t h e m e m b e r s , even though 17 has been
w i t h d r a w n , I w o uld like to, for all of you who
s u p p o r t t h a t d e sign, as a symbolic gesture
t h a t t h a t i s e x actly the kind of thing we're
l o o k i n g f o r , I ' d ask you to go ahead and vote
f o r t h a t , w i t h full knowledge that if that
e n d s u p a s t h e high scorer, that we know we're
g o i n g t o b y p a s s that because it has been
w i t h d r a w n b y t h e staff.

But I would like to

s e n d t h a t m e s s a ge, if you will, that that's
t h e k i n d o f t h i ng that we're looking for and
w e w a n t t o h a v e that one come back.
B u t I ' m fully aware that, regardless
h o w t h a t c o m e s out, we need to pick two that
w e ' r e f o c u s i n g on here.

And so if you go

a h e a d a n d f i l l out your evaluation forms and
g e t t h o s e i n t o Erik, that would be very
helpful.
S o I t h ink what we'll do now is take a
recess.

I w i l l give Erik a chance to tabulate

t h e s c o r e s , a n d we can come back fresh for our
d i s c u s s i o n o n t he Art Medals Program.

Thank

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you.
( B r i e f recess.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

If I could ask

e v e r y o n e t o c o m e back to their places?
c o m e t o y o u r p l aces.

Please

Okay, we’re back on the

record.
W e h a v e scores from our evaluation of
t h e A m e r i c a n P l atinum Eagle designs.

And as

w a s w i t h y e s t e r day, I will focus just on those
d e s i g n s w e k e p t in focus.

So I’ll start with

N u m b e r 3 , D e s i g n Number 3 received zero;
D e s i g n N u m b e r 4 received zero;, Number 5
r e c e i v e d 1 ; , N u mber 6 received 28--that is the
h i g h e s t s c o r e ; Number 7 received 26; Number 8
r e c e i v e d 1 9 ; N u mber 9 received 4; Number 17
r e c e i v e d 2 3 ; a n d Number 18 received 7 points;
N u m b e r 2 2 r e c e i ved 3; Number 23 was not under
c o n s i d e r a t i o n , it garnered a vote
M R . J A N SEN:

It was actually

reinstated.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
reinstated.

Was it?

Okay,

I t received 1 vote; Number 26

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r e c e i v e d 6 v o t e s; Number 30 received 6 votes;
a n d N u m b e r 3 1 r eceived 4.
S o I ’ m going to suggest to the
C o m m i t t e e t h a t we need to focus on 6, 7, and 8
a n d i f w e c o u l d bring those up in succession
on the screen?

The objective here, if we can

d o i t , I b e l i e v e would be to get a pair out of
these three.

I t was suggested and well so by

R o b e r t t h a t t h i s is an Eagle series.

If we

w e r e g o i n g t o f ollow that line of thought I
t h i n k w e ’ d e n d up with--which ones would be?
M S . L A N NIN:

Six and seven.

M R . J A N SEN:

Six and seven.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
Number 7.

Yeah, Number 6 and

S o a nd those happen to be the two

highest designs.

So what are the Committee’s

r e a c t i o n s t o t h is tally?
M S . W A S TWEET:

Heidi?

Between 7 and 8 I like

t h e c o m p o s i t i o n of 8, but Robert, you really
s w a y e d m e a s f a r as the content and theme.
t h i n k i t w o u l d add to the pairing and to the
Double Eagle.

So if we can look at 7 for a

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second?

A n d I don’t know for sure, but I’m

c o n s i d e r i n g i f we take out the second branch,
t h e o n e t h a t t h e eagle is holding, and having
t h e e a g l e j u s t fly, maybe that would ease it
up a little?
M R . H O G E:

That would simplify it.

M S . W A S TWEET:
M R . H O G E:

Yeah, I agree.

M R . S C A RINCI:
w i t h t h i s , t h o u gh?

If we--

Isn’t there a problem

The hair is blowing in one

d i r e c t i o n a n d t he flame is blowing in the
o p p o s i t e d i r e c t ion.
M S . W A S TWEET:

I considered that, Don,

M R . S C A RINCI:

And she’s also kind of

and--

c r o u c h i n g , I m e an-U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:

It’s global

warming.
( L a u g h t er.)
M S . W A S TWEET:

The way I see that is

s h e ’ s s p i n n i n g , she’s turning, she’s floating.
I t ’ s e t h e r e a l , it’s not wind, it’s not

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d i r e c t i o n , i t ’ s just free.
M R . S C A RINCI:

Okay, I can see that.

I get it.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay, and can we have

a d i s c u s s i o n o n how that pairs with Number 6?
C a n w e h a v e N u m ber 6 on the screen?

The

s u g g e s t i o n w a s made earlier that we would
e l i m i n a t e t h a t inner circle just under the
t e x t , U n i t e d S t ates of America.
M S . W A S TWEET:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay.
If you did that, I

t h i n k i t w o u l d start to make the two designs
m a t c h a l i t t l e better.
M S . W A S TWEET:

What do you think about

the bowl?
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
t h i n k a b o u t t h e bowl.

I’m not sure what I
I’d be interested in

w h a t o t h e r s t h i nk, but on the higher question
o f , a r e w e c o m f ortable with this pairing?

And

i f w e a r e , I t h ink the Mint staff would
a p p r e c i a t e s o m e input from us about what is
the theme?

W h a t are we saying here with this

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t w o -y e a r t h e m e ?

What is that?

M S . W A S TWEET:

To me it speaks of the

p a r t n e r s h i p a n d symbiotic relationship between
t h e i d e a s o f l i berty and freedom and how they
work in tandem.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

It’s interesting how

y o u s a i d t h a t b ecause from an iconology point
o f v i e w , o f c o u rse, the female figure is
l i b e r t y a n d t h e eagle is often seen as
freedom.

A n d A pril asked me during the recess

t h i s q u e s t i o n , and what came to my mind--I
d i d n ’ t v o c a l i z e it--was liberty and freedom.
I d o n ’ t k n o w - - i t’s really generalized, but I
d o n ’ t k n o w w h a t the rest of you think about
that?
M S . W A S TWEET: Michael, what do you
think?
D R . B U G EJA:

I’ll answer that.

I’ve

w r i t t e n a b o u t L iberty--I don’t need that, I’ll
j u s t t a l k l o u d l y.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

I don’t think it will

g e t o n t h e t a p e recording.

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D R . B U G EJA:

Okay.

The iconography of

L i b e r t y r e a l l y is freedom of movement.
F r e e d o m o f m o v e ment comes from what we went to
w a r o v e r i n 1 8 1 2, when the British would
c a p t u r e o u r p e o ple and induce them to serve
the king.
A n d s o liberty means, in the naval
s e n s e , t h a t y o u are free.

You go on liberty,

n o b o d y c a n h o l d you back.

The eagle often is

c o n s i d e r e d - - y o u ’re actually correct--the eagle
i s c o n s i d e r e d o ur rights that we will defend.
I n f a c t , t h e s t ate of Iowa’s motto is
p a t t e r n e d a f t e r that eagle and it is, “Our
l i b e r t i e s w e w i ll defend and our rights we
will maintain.”

And that’s what that eagle

represents.
A n d o f t en the eagle is seen as getting
i n s p i r a t i o n f r o m Liberty and putting it into
a c t i o n , e i t h e r peace with the olive branch or
w a r d e f e n s e w i t h the eagles.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

So this is sort of

t h e q u i n t e s s e n t ial American series of liberty

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and freedom.
D R . B U G EJA:

Yes.

M R . S C A RINCI:

Even though it doesn’t

m e a n a n y t h i n g t o me because they’re just
a n c i e n t i m a g e s , but I think the torch is the
u n i f y i n g e l e m e n t between the two designs that
we’ve selected.

So if you want to make it

m e a n s o m e t h i n g , it probably means the torch of
f r e e d o m a r o u n d the world.

Or freedom around

t h e w o r l d - - A m e r ican freedom around the world.
I t w a s after 1776 that monarchy began
t o f a l l , s o s o m ething along those lines using
t h a t t o r c h a s t he unifying element between
t h e s e t w o t h i n g s.

Of course, that’s just

a c a d e m i c s t u f f , it doesn’t mean anything.
M R . H O G E:

One short observation.

The

s u n h e r e , a c t u a lly is a setting sun, if you
notice.

I t ’ s b eyond the western horizon and I

d o n ’ t k n o w i f w e think of that as being good
or bad?

A n o t h e r aspect of this, both of the

f i g u r e s o f L i b e rty are shown barefooted and I
w o n d e r i f i t m i ght not be appropriate to

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e l i m i n a t e t h e e xergue platform on this piece,
w h i c h m i g h t b e part of the problem of an
a d d i t i o n a l p l a n e, and also the lettering with
t h e 9 9 5 p l a t i n u m?

To show two barefooted

l i b e r t i e s , i t p uts them much more in
c o n j u n c t i o n w i t h one another.
M S . W A S TWEET:

I’ll respond to that.

I t h i n k t h a t y o u’re thinking too literally
a b o u t t h e s u n b eing literally the sun.
s e e t h i s a s a l ight, not as a sun.

And I

It’s

h i g h l i g h t i n g , i t’s focusing on the interaction
b e t w e e n t h e t w o characters.

And as far as

w h a t s h e ’ s s t a n ding on, because the lettering
i s r u n n i n g o v e r two solid items, if we got rid
o f t h a t i t e m t h en we’d have half the lettering
i n f i e l d a n d h a lf in frost.

And so I would

e n v i s i o n t h a t m aking it a smoother surface and
b e i n g v e r y g e n t le with the topography of the
g l o b e t o m a k e t hose letters maintain their
legibility.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
that.

Let me follow up on

I ’ l l j u s t throw into the discussion

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t h a t y o u h a v e t wo lights here.

You have a

t o r c h a n d y o u h ave a sun and I think it’s too
much.

I s a i d i t in my earlier comments, this

i s s y m b o l i c o v e rload.

I think you could get

r i d o f t h e s u n , you still have the torch of
e n l i g h t e n m e n t a nd hope, that’s what the torch
usually conveys.

And I don’t think you’d be

m i s s i n g a n y t h i n g without that sun.

I think it

w o u l d s t i l l b e a good solid design, but you’d
g e t r i d o f o n e of these layers that we’ve been
struggling with.

Go ahead, Michael.

D R . B U G EJA:

I wouldn’t mind that,

g e t t i n g r i d o f the sun, but I do want to make
a f o r m a l m o t i o n to get rid of the pestle and
t h e c u p t h a t s h e’s holding.

Have her hand be

a l i t t l e b i t m o re welcoming and the eagle
m a k i n g e y e c o n t act with Liberty.

I’d like to

m a k e t h a t a s a formal motion because I’m very
c o n c e r n e d a b o u t this design, as long as she
h o l d s t h a t p l a t e.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay.

I would ask

t h e C o m m i t t e e i f we’re going to make motions,

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t h a t w e c o n s o l i date those in, so we can make
o n e m o t i o n a n d I’d like to make them simple.
W e ’ r e s t a r t i n g to get into design my
c o m m i t t e e , w h i c h I want to be very careful
a b o u t , b u t I t h ink we need to do something
h e r e b e c a u s e w e ’ve been asked to create a
p a i r i n g a n d r i g ht now I don’t think the
p a i r i n g r e a l l y is congruent.
S o i f t here is one omnibus motion we
c a n m a k e , i n c o r porating all of our ideas,
let’s do that.
D R . B U G EJA:

All right.

I’ll try to

do that.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

So I’m hearing- - and I

d o n ’ t k n o w w h a t all the reaction is from you
a l l a b o u t e l i m i nating the sun, but that’s what
I h a v e o n t h e t able.

Michael’s just suggested

e l i m i n a t i n g t h e dish.
D R . B U G EJA:

Let me make that a formal

m o t i o n , I ’ l l i n corporate your sun into it.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay, before you do

t h a t , I j u s t w a nt to ask, are any of the

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m e m b e r s h a r b o r i ng any ideas that we would
i n c o r p o r a t e i n t o a motion that Michael would
make?
M R . J A N SEN:

There was Heidi’s comment

a b o u t l i g h t e n i n g up the platform.
M S . W A S TWEET:

That would just be at

t h e d i s c r e t i o n of the artist, not a formal
motion.
M S . S T E VENS-SOLLMAN:

I agree that

t h e r e s h o u l d b e the repositioning the globe.
M S . W A S TWEET:

Yes.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Yeah, repositioning.

O k a y , t h a n k y o u , the idea of repositioning the
g l o b e - - h o w w o u l d we do that?

If we rotate the

E a r t h u p , t h e n it’s at an unnatural side
angle.

A r e w e saying we want the eagle on top

o f t h e U n i t e d S tates of America?
M R . J A N SEN:

The two issues are spin

t h e g l o b e a n d t hen eagle standing on America.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

How do you get the

e a g l e t o s t a n d on America and not Canada?
D R . B U G EJA:

You must restrict

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y o u r s e l f - - d o n ’ t restrict yourself by saying
t h e s i z e o f t h a t globe must remain the size of
that globe.

I mean, that’s the problem.

The

g l o b e c a n b e r e duced and moved up and the
e a g l e a c t u a l l y can stand wherever you want
t h a t e a g l e t o s tand by rotating the Earth.

I

t h i n k i t s h o u l d be over the Americas, for
sure.
B u t t h e fact of the matter is, if you
m a k e t h a t g l o b e smaller and--all the globe is
s e r v i n g f o r , n o t only itself, it’s serving as
a p e r c h f o r t h e eagle.

That’s what it’s

f u n c t i o n i s o v e r here.

So if you make the

E a r t h s m a l l e r , move it up a little, you start
t o a d d r e s s t h e 995 platinum and then by moving
i t u p , t h e e a g l e is not so much close to the
h a n d s , b u t a l s o can make eye contact with Lady
Liberty.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay, Michael, I

u n d e r s t a n d w h a t you’re saying, but how does
t h a t a d d r e s s t h e idea that Donald mentioned of
t h e e a g l e s t a n d ing on Canada, kind of thing?

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A n d i s t h a t s o m ething we need to be concerned
about?
D R . B U G EJA:

If you reduced the size

of the-C H A I R M A N MARKS:
D R . B U G EJA:

Oh.

But first of all, I think

t h e a r t i s t c a n do it.

If you reduce the size

o f t h e E a r t h - - h e could be standing on the
N o r t h P o l e f o r all I care.

The fact of the

m a t t e r i s I d o n ’t think we should get that
l i t e r a l , t h a t t his is something that the
a r t i s t s h o u l d t ake a look at, but what we’re
a c t u a l l y s a y i n g that is literal is that the
b o w l s h o u l d g o , and the eagle should make eye
c o n t a c t w i t h L i berty, and the sun should be
eliminated.

T h ose are three--the rest is

r e a l l y a r t i s t w ork.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
D R . B U G EJA:

The outer band.

Yeah, I think outer band.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

If we did all of

t h o s e , t h e n i t begins to match up-D R . B U G EJA:

It does.

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C H A I R M A N MARKS:
D R . B U G EJA:
does.

--with Number 7.

It really does.

It truly

It does.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

pairing then.

It looks like a

Do the rest of you agree?

( R e s p o n ses of no. )
M R . S C A RINCI:

No, the fact the eagle

i s s t a n d i n g o n Canada is the one thing about
t h e d e s i g n t h a t I like.
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . J A N SEN:

It’s actually standing on

none of it.
( L a u g h t er.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay, was there

another comment?
M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Yes.

Jeanne.

M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:

The one thing

t h a t d r e w m e t o this design was the sun.
s u n e n c a p s u l a t e d the two figures.

The

Why are we

w o r r i e d a b o u t t he Earth and the platinum
lettering?

W h y can’t the eagle be a little

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b i t b i g g e r a n d get rid of the Earth?

Why do

w e h a v e t o h a v e the Earth there, except that
i t i s a r o o s t f or the eagle.
A n d t h e n, when we do that, we are
d e s i g n i n g b y c o mmittee and I don’t like that.
S o i t ’ s l i k e , w hat drew us to this--at least
m e - - t o t h i s d e s ign?

It was exactly what the

a r t i s t d i d a n d , yes, I think it’s fair to make
a n a d j u s t m e n t t o remove the bowl, have the
e a g l e l o o k a t L iberty, but to take out the
s u n , w h i c h I t h ink was so important does a
d i s j u s t i c e f o r this.
D R . B U G EJA:

Point of order, I would

l i k e t o h a v e e a ch of those three voted on, so
t h a t w e a r e n o t designing by committee.

It’s

j u s t f a i r e r t o the artist.
M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Correct.

So, Michael, are you

s u g g e s t i n g t h r e e different motions?
D R . B U G EJA:

Three different motions

a n d t h e n w e ’ l l see how the Committee feels
a b o u t i t , s o t h at we’re not--it’s shared

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governance.

T h ere are different opinions.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
D R . B U G EJA:

Okay.

And each Committee member

s h o u l d h a v e t h e opportunity to weigh all
three.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay, we have some

d i f f e r e n c e s o f ideas about how to bring
c o n g r u e n c y t o t he two designs by making
a d j u s t m e n t s h e r e, so let’s do that.

I

o r i g i n a l l y w a n t ed to have one motion, but I
s e e y o u r p o i n t , Michael.

Heidi, did you have

a comment?
M S . W A S TWEET:

I respectfully oppose

y o u r o p i n i o n a b out taking out the sunburst.
t h i n k t h a t t h e sunburst is very important.

I
If

w e t a k e i t o u t , one, it makes the design even
more classical.

It’s the thing that makes it

m o s t c o n t e m p o r a ry.

The texture of that

s u n b u r s t i s g o i ng to look great in metal, the
w a y i t b o u n c e s the light.

And because the

i n t e r a c t i o n o f the two characters is a very
s m a l l p o i n t , t h e starburst highlights and

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f o c u s o u r p o i n t on the interaction of the two
c h a r a c t e r s a n d I think it’s an important
element.

I d o n ’t think it’s too crowded.

I

t h i n k t h e s h a d i ng of the drawing is making it
l o o k a l i t t l e m ore crowded than it is.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
Heidi.

I appreciate that,

I g u e s s I would suggest that this

d e s i g n m a k e s u s e of so many classical elements
t h a t i t a l m o s t defeats itself and it becomes
n o t c l a s s i c a l b ecause it’s got all of these
l a y e r s , a l l o f these elements on a not that
big of a coin.
M S . W A S TWEET:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

I think we need it.
I just think there’s

o n e t o o m a n y , m aybe two too many, of
something.

A n d I think simple is better.

I

u n d e r s t a n d w h a t you’re saying, but something’s
g o t t o g i v e , p a rticularly when you look at
w h a t w e ’ r e t r y i ng to pair it with.

We’re

t r y i n g t o p a i r it with another design that is
f a i r l y c l e a n , w ithout as many elements or as
m a n y s t y l i s t i c messages being sent.

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S o , o k a y, Michael suggested that we
h a v e i n d i v i d u a l motions.

I think any further

d i s c u s s i o n i s k ind of pointless, let’s vote
this thing out.

So, Michael, why don’t you--

i f y o u w o u l d n ’ t mind--framing each of the
m o t i o n s a n d w e ’ ll just take the seconds from
w h o e v e r w a n t s t o make them.
D R . B U G EJA:

Absolutely.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

So you have the

floor, Michael.
D R . B U G EJA:

Okay, I would like to

m a k e a m o t i o n t o remove the bowl from Lady
L i b e r t y ’ s h a n d for our aforementioned
d i s c u s s i o n t h a t we had.
M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:
M R . J A N SEN:

Second.

And no changes to the eye

c o n t a c t , b l a h , blah, blah.
D R . B U G EJA:

That will be the second

motion.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Yeah, we’re singular

motions here.
M R . J A N SEN:

Oh, okay.

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C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay, so it’s moved

a n d s e c o n d e d b y Jeanne, to remove the bowl
f r o m t h e h a n d o f Liberty.

All those in favor

raise your hand?
( H a n d s raised.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

That’s 9.

And

opposed?
( H a n d s raised.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Two.

t o 2 , t h e m o t i o n passes.

The vote is 9

Next motion,

Michael?
D R . B U G EJA:

The next motion would be

t o e s t a b l i s h e y e contact, according to the
a r t i s t ’ s d i s c r e tion and proportions, between
t h e e a g l e a n d L ady Liberty.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay, so is there a

second?
M R . H O G E:

Second.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Seconded by Robert.

A l l t h o s e i n f a vor, raise your hand?
( H a n d s raised.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Three, four--are you

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voting?
M R . J A N SEN:

I am voting against it.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay, so it’s 9.

V o t i n g a g a i n s t would be?
( H a n d s raised.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
t o 2 , t h e m o t i o n carries.

Two.

The margin is 9

Next motion,

Michael?
D R . B U G EJA:

The third motion is was a

f r i e n d l y a m e n d m ent and now is a distinct
m o t i o n t o r e m o v e the sun.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
remove the sun?

Is there a second to

I’ll second it.

All those in

f a v o r r a i s e y o u r hand?
( H a n d r aised.)
( L a u g h t er.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

I love it.

y o u , t h a t ’ s a m oment of history.

Thank

All those

opposed?
( H a n d r aised.)
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . J A N SEN:

Wait a second, Mike

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B u g e j a , y o u i n i tiated this thing.
D R . B U G EJA:

No, I accepted it as a

f r i e n d l y a m e n d m ent, just to--as for procedure
I a c c e p t e d i t a s a friendly amendment because
I t h o u g h t w e w e re going to vote on all three.
M R . J A N SEN:

No problem.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
this is great.

I love you people,

Robert, did you vote?

M R . S C A RINCI:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

I abstained.
You abstained, okay,

so-U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Smart choice.

Okay, we have 1 in

f a v o r , 9 o p p o s e d, and 1 abstention.
U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Got it.

I think that’s the

f i r s t t i m e e v e r the chair has had a motion
w i t h n o s u p p o r t whatsoever.
U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:

It’s not your

day.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . U R A M:

I appreciate it.

You know, Gary, I

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o r i g i n a l l y s a i d that on Design Number 4 I
w a n t e d t h e s u n out, but on this one it’s not
a s l a y e r e d a s m uch, in my opinion.

This is

k i n d o f l i k e f o reground, a background, and a
center.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
C o m m i t t e e ’ s w i l l, okay?
M R . U R A M:

Yeah, I bow to the
So let’s move on.

I just explained my vote,

though.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Did we want to

a d d r e s s t h e b a n d?
M R . H O G E:

I’d like to make a motion--

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . H O G E:

Okay.

--that we remove the inner

border-D R . B U G EJA:
M R . H O G E:

Yes.
--on Number 6 to make it

m o r e c o n g r u e n t with design ( inaudible 20:44) .
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay, the motion is

t o r e m o v e t h e b order appearing just below the
t e x t o f “ T h e U n ited States of America.”
D R . B U G EJA:

I second it.

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C H A I R M A N MARKS:

It’s been moved by

R o b e r t , s e c o n d e d by Michael, all those in
f a v o r r a i s e y o u r hand?
( H a n d s raised.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

It looks like it’s

everybody.
U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
opposed?

T e n t o one.

I don’t know.

Okay, so that is-Okay, motion carries.

A r e t h e r e a n y o ther motions?
M S . L A N NIN:

Yes.

I make the motion

t h a t w e r e p o s i t ion the-U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:

Is this a

m i l i t a r y o b j e c t ive or is this-M S . L A N NIN:
o b j e c t i v e , e x a c tly.

It’s a military
I make a motion that we

r e p o s i t i o n t h e Earth so that North America is
showing.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

The motion is to

r e p o s i t i o n t h e Earth, so that North America is
showing.
D R . V I O LA:

Second.

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C H A I R M A N MARKS:
Viola.

Seconded by Dr.

A l l t h o se in favor, raise your hand?
( H a n d s raised.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Eight.

Opposed?

( H a n d s raised.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
the abstentions?

Two opposed?

And are

You’re an abstention?

Okay,

s o w e h a v e - - w h a t was the vote?
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . J A N SEN:

Eight to two, with one

abstention.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Eight to two, thank

you.
M R . J A N SEN:

You’re welcome.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
one abstention.

Eight to two, with

Okay, now that we’ve totally

r e d e s i g n e d t h i s thing-( L a u g h t er.)
M R . S C A RINCI:

After talking about not

w a n t i n g t o d e s i gn by committee.
( L a u g h t er.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Well, in fairness--in

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f a i r n e s s t o s t a ff, you asked us to pair
something here-M R . S C A RINCI:

That’s right.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

--and we’re doing the

b e s t w e c a n , s o although we did some redesign
h e r e , I d o - - w h a t’s that?
M S . W A S TWEET:

They’re small changes.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

They are small

c h a n g e s , b u t I do think it helps, if we truly
w a n t t o t w o -y e a r program, I think it helps
m e l d t h o s e t w o together so that it looks like
i t m a k e s s o m e s ense.

And the thematic program

w o u l d b e a c e l e bration of liberty and freedom,
correct?

N o d d i ng heads, yes.
S t a f f , is there anything else that you

w o u l d l i k e t o a sk or input?
M S . S T A FFORD:

No, we don’t.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . H O G E:

Okay.

Gary?

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . H O G E:

No.

Yes, Robert.

I think we may need a

m o t i o n w i t h r e g ard to changing--on the reverse

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N u m b e r 7 t o r e m ove the olive branch from the
eagle’s talons.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Oh, yes, yes.

Thank

you.
M S . W A S TWEET:
M R . J A N SEN:

I’ll make that motion.
What is the motion?

W h i c h o n e i s i t , which branch?
M S . W A S TWEET:

The branch that the

eagle’s holding.
M R . H O G E:

Number seven, on the left.

M S . W A S TWEET:

And the subsequent

claw.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay, the motion from

H e i d i i s t o r e m ove the branch in the eagle’s
c l a w i n D e s i g n Number 7.
M R . H O G E:

Second.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
second on that.

And Robert was the

All those in favor, raise

your hand?
( H a n d s raised.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Eight.

Opposed?

( H a n d s raised.)

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C H A I R M A N MARKS:
motion carries.

Thank you.

D R . B U G EJA:
not?

Okay, it’s 8 to 3,

Did you want stars or

I c o u l d n ’ t remember.
M R . H O G E:
D R . B U G EJA:

Just empty, right?

Correct.
That’s what I thought.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay, I think we’re

done, folks.
M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:

Now that we’ve

f i n a l i z e d t h i s discussion, I’d like to make a
comment.

W e d i d not have, in my opinion,

e n o u g h t i m e i n the day to address all 31
d e s i g n s a n d w e should have maybe made an
a d j u s t m e n t f o r that because I think there were
s o m e d e s i g n s h e re that had we had another hour
o r t w o a n d w e c ould have each felt that we
c o u l d a d d r e s s m ore, then maybe we could have
s a i d m o r e t o t h e artist, to the staff, of why
w e s o r t o f e l i m inated some of these.

That

m i g h t h a v e b e e n discussed.
S o I t h ink, given our amount of time
t h i s m o r n i n g , w e accomplished a lot, but I’m

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n o t s u r e w e a c c omplished in the right way, so
I w o u l d a s k t h e Committee staff, or whoever we
n e e d t o a s k t h e next time, when we have such a
h u g e a m o u n t t o cover that we have more time in
a d a y t o d o t h a t because I’ve felt very
rushed.

T h a n k you, Gary.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

J e a n n e , t h a n k y ou.

A fair comment,

Okay, well that takes us

t o o u r n e x t i t e m on the agenda and I’ll start
t h a t o f f b y r e p orting, I guess is the word,
t h a t o n J u l y 2 2 nd the Committee held a
t e l e p h o n i c m e e t ing and at that meeting we
c o n s i d e r e d t h e Mint’s proposal for a 24- karat
g o l d , h i g h r e l i ef coin for 2015, paired with a
h i g h r e l i e f s i l ver medal.
A t t h e conclusion of that meeting I
a n n o u n c e d t h a t I would appoint a subcommittee
t o d e v e l o p a r e solution giving further detail
t o a m o t i o n t h e Committee approved back on, I
b e l i e v e i t w a s , June 2nd--the June 2nd
m e e t i n g , I b e l i eve, I could be wrong on that.
B u t i t w a s a r e cent meeting that the Committee

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p a s s e d a m o t i o n calling for an arts medal
p r o g r a m , b u t t h ere was not a lot offered in
t h e w a y o f a d e tail of what the program might
look like.
S o a t t he conclusion of the July 22nd
m e e t i n g , I a p p o inted all members who expressed
a n i n t e r e s t i n being on the subcommittee and
i t e n d e d u p b e i ng a six member committee.
w a s n o t a m e m b e r of that committee.

I

I did

l i s t e n i n t o s o me of the dialogue that went on
i n d e v e l o p i n g t he resolution that you have
b e f o r e y o u t o d a y.

But I asked Mike Moran to

c h a i r t h e s u b c o mmittee and he did a fabulous
job doing that.
A l s o o n the committee was Heidi,
M i c h a e l B u g e j a , Donald, Jeanne, and Mary, and
I t h a n k y o u a l l for your hard work in putting
t h e r e s o l u t i o n together.

These folks had some

g o o d , h o n e s t a n d, sometimes difficult
d i s c u s s i o n a b o u t what an arts medal program
s h o u l d l o o k l i k e.

And so as the Mint looks at

t h i s , I w a n t y o u to know that this was not

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s o m e t h i n g t h a t just came naturally, and this
i s t r u l y a c o n s ensus document that was
h a m m e r e d o u t o v er multiple days of dialogue.
S o , w i t h that, I’m going to recognize
M i c h a e l M o r a n a s the chair of the subcommittee
a n d a s k h i m f o r his report on the resolution
t h a t w e h a v e i n front of us today.
M R . M O R AN:

I was going to say much

t h e s a m e t h i n g about the dialogue.
spirited.

It was

I a l so feel that it’s necessary to

t h a n k a l l o f t h e members for the dialogue, it
w a s o p e n , h o n e s t, good and I believe fairly
d i g e s t e d a n d p u t into this resolution.
I w i l l today skip the whereases and
j u s t r e a d t h e r ecommendations of the
s u b c o m m i t t e e f o r the Committee’s
consideration.
S e c t i o n 1:

The Committee extends its

s t r o n g e s t p o s s i ble recommendation for, and
e n d o r s e m e n t o f , an annual United States Mint
A r t M e d a l P r o g r am in two separate series.
T h e C o m mittee recommends that a United

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S t a t e s M i n t A r t Medal Program provide for the
i s s u a n c e o f a d ated American Liberty themed
m e d a l , t h e d e s i gn for which would change
annually.

T h i s medal would depict a new

A m e r i c a n L i b e r t y on the obverse, while
i n c o r p o r a t i n g a n American eagle on the
reverse.
T h e C o m mittee recommends that the
U n i t e d S t a t e s M int specify the medal be
p r o d u c e d i n . 9 9 9 Fine Silver as a one ounce
4 0 . 6 m i l l i m e t e r , or 1.598 inch diameter medal.
A n d w h e n a p p r o p riate to a particular design,
b e p r o d u c e d a l s o in bronze or silver as a 76.2
m i l l i m e t e r , o r 3 inch diameter medal.

The

l a r g e r s i z e , w h en utilized, should allow in
c o n s u l t a t i o n w i th the artist for variation in
f i n i s h e s a n d t h e use of polish and patina.
D e s i g n s would be submitted for review
b y t h e C o m m i s s i on of Fine Arts Citizen’s
C o i n a g e A d v i s o r y Committee and the Director of
t h e U n i t e d S t a t es Mint, and approved by the
S e c r e t a r y o f t h e Treasury.

In addition, the

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C i t i z e n ’ s C o i n a ge Advisory Committee would
r e s e r v e t h e r i g ht to request certain designs
n o t c h o s e n t o b e held over and resubmitted
w i t h t h e f o l l o w ing year’s submissions.
S e c t i o n 3:

The second annually

p r o d u c e d m e d a l should be a freestyle art
medal.

T h e s u b ject matter would be of an

A m e r i c a n t h e m e in the various, broadest sense
of the word.

T he specific subject is left up

t o t h e a r t i s t a nd could include any non- living
p e r s o n , p l a c e , thing, event, or idea that they
f e e l i n s p i r e d t o create.
T h e i n t ent is to offer artistic
f r e e d o m t o t h e artist in developing images, to
f o s t e r a g r e a t e r sense of creativity using
i n n o v a t i v e m a t e rials and techniques.

This

p r o g r a m i s m e a n t to be an incubator for ideas
a n d d a r i n g d e s i gns that could inform future
n u m i s m a t i c p r o g rams at the United States Mint.
I f p o s s ible, the artist should have
t h e o p t i o n o f s ubmitting an image of a
s c u l p t e d m o d e l , instead of a sketch, should

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t h e y f e e l i t b e tter represented their design.
T h e p r o g r a m w i l l encourage the use of patina
and high relief.

The final medal may be of

b r o n z e o r s i l v e r, with a 77.2- millimeter or 3i n c h d i a m e t e r , or an optional 33.3- millimeter
o r 1 -5 / 1 6 -i n c h diameter.
F u t u r e medals may utilize alternative
s h a p e s a s a d v a n cing technology allows.

The

C o m m i t t e e w i s h e s to foster more direct
c o l l a b o r a t i o n b etween artist and
manufacturing.

Once submitted by the artist,

t h e a p p r o p r i a t e ness of designs would be
d e t e r m i n e d t h r o ugh an internal United States
Mint process.
A p p r o v e d designs would be submitted
f o r r e v i e w b y t he Commission of Fine Arts,
C i t i z e n s C o i n a g e Advisory Committee and the
D i r e c t o r o f t h e Mint, and approved by the
S e c r e t a r y o f t h e Treasury.

In addition, the

C i t i z e n s C o i n a g e Advisory Committee would
r e s e r v e t h e r i g ht to request certain designs
n o t c h o s e n t o b e held over and resubmitted

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w i t h t h e f o l l o w ing year’s submissions.
M r . C h a irman, respectfully submitted
b y t h e s u b c o m m i ttee for the Committee’s
review.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you.

And

a g a i n , I t h a n k each member of the Committee
f o r y o u r h a r d w ork in putting the resolution
together.
F o r m e this resolution represents a
v e r y i m p o r t a n t step forward, I hope, for the
Mint.

I t ’ s p a r t art, but it’s also part R&D,

I t h i n k , f o r t h e Mint as far where we want to
t a k e o u r d e s i g n s in the future.

Right now we

r e a l l y d o n ’ t h a ve that outlet for our artists,
s o I t h i n k t h i s is really important.

If the

M i n t d o e s n ’ t e x actly go the way that this is
a l l s p e l l e d o u t --I don’t know if we expect 100
p e r c e n t o f t h i s , but this was our best
r e c o m m e n d a t i o n to you for proceeding forward
w i t h t h i s s o r t of an idea.
A s I t h ink many of us are aware, the
c o l l e c t i n g c o m m unity for the last six or seven

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d e c a d e s , l i t e r a lly, has asked for the return
o f L i b e r t y o n A merican coinage.

There was a

t i m e w h e n L i b e r ty occupied several of our
d e n o m i n a t i o n s t hat were in our pocket every
day.

A n d w h e n we came into the 20th century,

o v e r t h e c o u r s e of several years, there was a
s l o w t r a n s i t i o n that saw Lady Liberty put away
a n d h o n o r g i v e n to various former Presidents.
S i n c e t hen there’s been this desire
f r o m t h e c o l l e c ting community, the Mint’s
c u s t o m e r b a s e t hat somehow Liberty be brought
back.

F o r v a r i ous reasons I think it’s

e v i d e n t t h a t t h at may not happen.

And clearly

t h e l a s t s i x o r seven decades illustrate that
i t h a s n ’ t h a p p e ned and may not.

So this is an

a t t e m p t , w i t h o u t denomination assigned, to
p r o v i d e t o t h e collecting community this
d e s i r e f o r L i b e rty themed medallic art.

And I

t h i n k i t ’ s a w o nderful opportunity where we
c h a n g e t h e d e s i gn every year.

We give our

a r t i s t s a c h a n c e to render these icons of
A m e r i c a i n n e w and modern ways.

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O u r c o u ntry’s changed a lot in the
l a s t s i x o r s e v en decades and, therefore, I
b e l i e v e t h a t t h ose icons need to change and
r e f l e c t o u r c u r rent generation.
O n e o f the wonderful things about the
L i b e r t y d e s i g n s that we had in the late 19th
c e n t u r y a n d c o m ing into the early 20th century
w a s t h a t i t s a i d something about the people of
t h e t i m e , w h o t hey were as Americans at that
t i m e i n o u r h i s tory.

Their icons spoke to

t h a t , a b o u t t h e ir values, how they saw
t h e m s e l v e s a s A mericans, as a nation, and in
the world.
W e d o n ’ t have that or have not had
t h a t a r t i c u l a t i on of ideas through national
m e d a l l i c a r t f o r some time and this is a
c h a n c e f o r u s t o make a mark as a nation
a r t i s t i c a l l y a b out what these core values
r e a l l y m e a n t o us in this current generation.
A n d s o t h a t g e n erations after us will be able
t o l o o k b a c k a n d see and interpret from the
a r t t h a t w e p r o duced just what was America at

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that time.
T h e r e ’ s only so much that can be
u n d e r s t o o d t h r o ugh the written word and for
t h o s e o f u s w h o are artistically brained--if
that’s a word?

Oh, I probably just stepped on

t h a t , b u t - - p a r d on me?
M S . L A N NIN:

Orientated.

M R . J A N SEN:

Endowed.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Endowed.

Part of

i n t e r p r e t i n g h i story is to look at the art of
t h e t i m e a n d i t helps to understand who those
p e o p l e w e r e a n d what their values were.

So

t h i s i s a n o p p o rtunity for to, with this new
L i b e r t y s e r i e s - -which is one of the two series
t h a t w e ’ r e p r o p osing here--to put that in
p l a c e , I t h i n k it’s going to be a wonderful
p r o d u c t f r o m a marketing and sales point of
v i e w , p a r t i c u l a rly something that’s produce in
o n e o u n c e s i l v e r.
I t h i n k you have a wonderful
o p p o r t u n i t y h e r e to package the traditional
o n e o u n c e A m e r i can Silver Eagle with a one

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o u n c e o f t h e s a me size American Liberty Medal.
I c a n s e e t h a t as a pairing and proof and you
c o u l d c a l l i t t he Double Liberty.

We hear a

l o t a b o u t D o u b l e Eagles, and all that.

I’m

c o i n i n g a n e w i dea here, the Double Liberty,
a n d t h a t ’ s a s e t that could be offered to the
c o l l e c t i n g c o m m unity.

In proof, I believe it

w o u l d j u s t b e a huge home run for the United
S t a t e s M i n t a n d a huge contribution to
medallic art.
I w o u l d also suggest too that there
w o u l d b e a m a r k et for the medal in bullion.
I f y o u g o o n t o websites now that sell bullion,
e B a y i s p r o b a b l y the biggest one, there is a
p r o l i f e r a t i o n i n the private marketplace of
p r i v a t e l y p r o d u ced one ounce bullion rounds.
T h e y ’ r e n o t c o i ns, but rounds.

That is

s o m e t h i n g t h a t has blossomed just over the
p a s t f i v e y e a r s or so.

I think this is a

g r o w i n g m a r k e t that would be a great one for
t h e U n i t e d S t a t es Mint to build market share
in.

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I t h i n k that an American Liberty medal
t h a t w o u l d b e a product of the United States
M i n t w o u l d b e a huge contribution to the
s i l v e r r o u n d m a rket that is currently out
there.

J u s t h a ving the United States Mint as

a p a r t i c i p a n t w ould be, I think, just a very
w e l c o m e c o n t r i b ution.
S o t h a t takes me then to the Art Medal
S e r i e s t h a t ’ s a part of our recommendation
today.

T h a t ’ s the R&D part of this and it

r e q u i r e s f o l k s to step back and be willing to
a c c e p t t h a t i d e a that there may be some things
p r o d u c e d h e r e t hat might not really make a lot
o f s e n s e i n s a l es.

I think that several of

t h e m w i l l , b u t I think the bigger contribution
h e r e - - a n d m a y b e not one that’s not as solid to
g r i p o n t o - - i s t hat through the process of
e x p e r i m e n t a t i o n there’s some discovery that
c a n t a k e p l a c e in what works and doesn’t work
on medallic art.
A n d I t hink that there’s going to be a
t r a n s f e r e n c e f o r building this knowledge base

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i n t o t h e c o i n s and the national medals that
a r e p r o d u c e d t h at are a result of
C o n g r e s s i o n a l a ction.

So I think if you look

a t c o u n t r i e s a r ound the world, several of the
m i n t s h a v e p r o g rams where the artists are
a l l o w e d t o e x p e riment, to bring forth new
i d e a s , a n d I t h ink out of that you see some of
t h e c o u n t r i e s o ut there producing some pretty
amazing art.
C o u n t r i es that come to mind are some
t h a t y o u m i g h t not expect:

Latvia, Belarus,

P o l a n d , A u s t r i a , Italy--Don can probably
c o n t r i b u t e t o t hat list--but I think pretty
m u c h t h o s e a r e countries that are in some way,
s h a p e , o r f o r m , providing opportunities for
e x p e r i m e n t a t i o n for research and development,
really.

I t h i n k there is a customer base for

that, too.
T h e r e ’ s a segment of the medallic
c o l l e c t i n g c o m m unity that is specifically
f o c u s e d o n m e d a ls, not so much denominated
m o n e y , b u t m e d a ls.

And they look for designs

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i n m e d a l s t h a t are unique, different, that
p u s h t h e o u t e r limit, and that’s simply not
s o m e t h i n g t h a t to this point the Mint’s been
a b l e t o c o n t r i b ute to, at least in modern
times.
I t h i n k this is a wonderful
o p p o r t u n i t y f o r the mint to move forward in
t h a t w h o l e a r t s medal arena.

So those are my

t h o u g h t s a b o u t this program.

I think it’s

v e r y i m p o r t a n t to the future of the Mint, it’s
v e r y i m p o r t a n t to helping our artists develop
t h e i r s k i l l s , h elping them contribute and feel
l i k e t h e y a r e p art of moving the whole
m e d a l l i c a r t p r ocess forward.

I think it can

b e a v e r y e n g a g ing process for them and I
t h i n k t h a t t h e Mint would be very pleased with
s o m e o f t h e i n n ovation that will come out of a
p r o g r a m s u c h a s this.
S o w i t h that I’ll relinquish the mic
t o m y f e l l o w m e mbers on the Committee and ask
t h e m t o s h a r e a ny of their thoughts that they
w o u l d h a v e o n t he resolution that we have

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before us.

A n d once we all have a chance to

s p e a k t h e n I ’ l l entertain a motion concerning
the resolution.

Donald, would you please grab

a mic?
M R . S C A RINCI:

I’ve been on this

C o m m i t t e e f o r I guess a little over 10 years
n o w a n d f r o m t h e day I started, this is what I
h a v e w a n t e d t o happen the most.

For the U.S.

M i n t t o o f f e r i ts artists the ability to
e x p r e s s t h e i r c reativity unencumbered by
a n y o n e t e l l i n g them what they want, including
us, by the way.
T o s i t here today, 10 years later, and
b e a b l e t o v o t e for this is a very, very
p o w e r f u l m o m e n t for me.

And I want to put

t h i s i n s o m e i n ternational context, if I may.
I t c e r t a i n l y i s --and as those who know
h i s t o r i c a l m e d a ls--certainly since the Louis
i n F r a n c e , a n d even before, one would argue
t h e r o y a l t y i n the Renaissance commissioning
P i s a n e l l o , a n d beyond.
T o d o a rt medals, to communicate or to

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e x p r e s s i s i n t he tradition of medallic art
and coinage art.

More contemporary, in 1898,

t h e P a r i s M i n t began a series of art medals,
a n d t h a t s e r i e s --there have since been three
s e p a r a t e s e r i e s that the Paris Mint has
sponsored.

T h e last series began in 1963,

w h e n P i e r r e D u h aime became the director and
R o g e r B e z o m b e s was the chief engraver and they
i s s u e d f o r a l o ng period of time a series-c l o s e t o 9 0 0 a r t medals over those years.
I n 1 9 7 2 , the Finnish government and
F i n n i s h s p o n s o r ed mint supported Kauko Rasanen
w h e n K a u k o R a s a nen made the first two- part
m e d a l i n h i s t o r y.

In 1974, the Leningrad

S t a t e m e n t s u p p o rted Alex Shagin before he
i m m i g r a t e d t o t he United States, and Alex
S h a g i n d e v e l o p e d the first free- standing
medal.

A m e d a l that challenged the conception

o f w h a t i s a m e dal and caused that question to
b e d e b a t e d u n t i l it was ultimately, in my
o p i n i o n , c o n c l u ded at FEDM 1992 held in
E n g l a n d , w h i c h many people still talk about

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t o d a y , a s t o w h at is a medal and what is a
s c u l p t u r e a n d w hat’s the difference.
A l s o i n the 1960s, the Polish State
M i n t e m p l o y e d a rtists who were taught by Zofia
Demkowska.

Z o f ia Demkowska was one of the

e a r l y m o d e r n i s t , post- World War II medalists
a n d s h e t r a i n e d a whole series of artist,
i n c l u d i n g E w a B orys.

Ewa Borys makes coins

a n d m e d a l s , a n d a series of medals--many
m e d a l s i s s u e d o fficially by the Polish State
M i n t w h i c h a r e real objects of beauty and the
s u b j e c t o f a m u ltivolume catalogue of medals.
I n 1 9 8 2 , while not the British Royal
M i n t , t h e B r i t i sh Museum sponsored the British
A r t M e d a l S o c i e ty, along with Ron Dutton, and
t h e B r i t i s h A r t Medal Society since then has
i s s u e d f o u r t o five medals a year and,
c e r t a i n l y , b e y o nd question, the support that
t h o s e a r t i s t s r eceived from the British
M u s e u m , a n d t h e n subsequently from the British
R o y a l M i n t r e s u lted in the groundbreaking
c r e a t i v e d e s i g n s of the coins that you are

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s e e i n g t o t h i s day coming out of the British
R o y a l M i n t w h i c h, no doubt has inspired other
c o i n i s s u i n g n a tions, and Britain certainly
t a k e s t h e l e a d in the art medal today.
I n t h e Unites States, who also goes
w i t h o u t s a y i n g , in the 1980s, the Portuguese
S t a t e m e n t w i t h the support of their version of
t h e C i t i z e n ’ s C oinage Advisory Committee,
w h i c h h a p p e n s t o consist of artists, like Joao
D u a r t e , l i k e , f ormerly Helder Batista.

I

w o u l d c e r t a i n l y love to see their meetings, if
y o u t h i n k t h e s e meetings are rough.
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . S C A RINCI:

If you know Helder

B a t i s t a , y o u ’ d know exactly what I mean.

And

t h e r e s u l t i s t he Portuguese Art Medal again
b l a z e d a t r a i l and created a generation of
a r t i s t t r a i n e d in medallic art who make to
t h i s d a y s o m e o f the most amazing coin designs
i n t h e w o r l d , o ut of Portugal.
I n A m e r ica the Medallic Art Company
t o o k t h e l e a d i n using this medium for

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c o m m e r c i a l p u r p oses and they created the
S o c i e t y o f M e d a lists in the 1930s--1932, I
b e l i e v e , w h i c h was really a commercial
enterprise.

T h e idea was not only to incubate

a r t i s t s , b u t t o show the public what was
p o s s i b l e , b o t h by way of design and patina, so
t h a t c o m m e r c i a l enterprises who wanted to give
a m e d a l i n s t e a d of an acrylic plaque or
s o m e t h i n g e n g r a ved or a certificate, could
g i v e a m e d a l i n the historical tradition of
g i v i n g m e d a l s t o symbolize achievement and
s u c c e s s , a s o p p osed to giving somebody a
plaque.
A n d t h e Medallic Art Company was very
s u c c e s s f u l i n t hat enterprise until the series
ended in 1995.

And we are honored here to

h a v e D o n E v e r h a rt who’s series of dinosaurs
w a s r e a l l y o n e of the crowning achievements at
t h e e n d o f t h a t long series of medals issued
b y t h e p r i v a t e Medallic Art Company.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

And there’s also the

dolphins.

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M R . S C A RINCI:

And the dolphins.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Yeah, his dolphins--

M R . S C A RINCI:

Yep, I could talk

M R . E V E RHART:

I might take orders

about--

a f t e r t h e m e e t i ng.
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . S C A RINCI:
point.

In fact, that’s a good

D o n E v e rhart’s one of the very few

A m e r i c a n a r t i s t s who actually has two- - he
j o i n s t h e r a n k s of Donald De Lue in having the
h o n o r o f h a v i n g produced two medals for the
M e d a l l i c A r t C o mpany in the Society of
M e d a l i s t s s e r i e s, notwithstanding the rule
t h a t o n l y o n e p er artist--one opportunity to
m a k e a m e d a l p e r artist.
A n d o u r good old friends Mr. Weinman
a n d M r . F r a s e r , who produced medals for that
s e r i e s , o n l y h a d one medal.

Don Everhart had

two.
A n d t h e n in the ’60s when Segel
s t a r t e d r e a l i z i ng that you could make money

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s e l l i n g b u l l i o n if you make it pretty and you
p u t d e s i g n s o n it and was the master marketeer
a n d i n t h e b u s i ness schools, as I know the
M i n t i s w e l l a w are, he pretty much--he and the
F r a n k l i n M i n t - - pretty much defined how you
m a r k e t a n d m a k e money at selling bullion and
h e d i d i t b y t u rning the artists into rock
s t a r s , s o m e t h i n g we talked about in our
C o m m i t t e e r e p o r t.

In our blueprint, we talked

a b o u t a n d w e a r e heading in the direction of
h i g h l i g h t i n g t h e artists and turning them into
rock stars.

S e lling the artist.

m e d a l t h r o u g h t he artist.

Market the

Market the coin

t h r o u g h w h i c h a rtist did it.
A n d t h e American public certainly
l i k e s i t s r o c k stars, it likes celebrity, it
c h e r i s h e s c e l e b rity.

So creating celebrity as

a m a r k e t i n g t o o l is really the standard of
w h a t S e g e l d i d and that is taught and studied
i n t h e b u s i n e s s schools today and something
t h a t t h e M i n t i s well aware of, and I hope the
e m u l a t e , e s p e c i ally now that we’ve gotten the

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a r t i s t s o u t o f their little cubicles into a
m u c h n i c e r s p a c e.
I t w a s , in fact, the Franklin Mint
k n e w h o w t o i n v est its money and what they did
i n 1 9 9 2 i s t h e y sponsored at an ANA, an AMSA
e x h i b i t o n a r t medals, and I was there and
t h a t w a s o n e o f the things that inspired me.
T h e f i r s t t i m e I actually saw some of Don
E v e r h a r t ’ s w o r k displayed there was Fraggle
R o c k , I r e m e m b e r.

And I always remind Don

E v e r h a r t w h e n e v er I see a boring design or an
u n i m a g i n a t i v e d esign; I say that doesn’t come
f r o m t h e g u y w h o made Fraggle Rock.
M R . E V E RHART:

Crocodile Rock.

M R . S C A RINCI:

Crocodile Rock,

Crocodile Rock.

Very creative stuff, but it

w a s t h a t e x h i b i t that again inspired people to
b e b o l d , t o t h i nk outside of the box and I
t h i n k t h a t w h a t we’re doing today is in a
t r a d i t i o n t h a t goes back to Pisanello, which I
j u s t o u t l i n e d b riefly, very briefly, and
c u r s o r i l y , a n d I’m sure people will pick out

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m y m i s t a k e s , b u t the point is this is a very
i m p o r t a n t r e s o l ution.
T h i s i s a very important statement
t h a t t h i s C o m m i ttee is making.

This is a very

i m p o r t a n t s t a t e ment that the United States is
m a k i n g a r o u n d t he world.

And I think that out

o f t h e s e e d t h a t has been planted here some
y e a r s a n d i s s h ining through the dirt right
now.

I t h i n k w e will eventually find the

w i s d o m t o b u d g e t money for artists to go to
i n t e r n a t i o n a l c ompetitions, participate in
F E D M s , t h e n e x t one will be in Belgium.

The

o n e t h a t j u s t o ccurred was in Bulgaria and
h o p e f u l l y y o u M int artists, not just Heidi and
n o t j u s t J i m , w ill have items on display for
t h e w o r l d t o s e e what America is doing and how
g r e a t w e a r e o n ce again, taking the lead in
art.
S o , a n y way, with that said, thank you
f o r c o n s i d e r i n g and for your support in voting
f o r t h i s r e s o l u tion--and especially thank the
D i r e c t o r , w h o r eally has been an incubator and

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a f a t h e r o f t h i s process, and a shepherd of
t h i s p r o c e s s t o make this resolution possible.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Donald.

B e f o r e w e g o o n to another member, I’d just add
t o m y r e m a r k s t hat the silver medal that’s
b e e n a p p r o v e d i s part of the high relief
p r o g r a m f o r n e x t year.

I’d like to suggest to

t h e M i n t t h a t t hat is an opportunity to start
t h i s w h o l e - - i f you wanted to do the Double
L i b e r t y , y o u c o uld do it next year.
I k i n d of see that 24- karat gold, high
r e l i e f c o i n a n d particularly the medal, the
s i l v e r m e d a l , a s the first installment in this
a r t m e d a l s p r o g ram.

Maybe not so much the

g o l d b e c a u s e i t ’s a coin, but I think the
m e d a l , c e r t a i n l y the silver medal falls nicely
i n t o w h a t w e ’ v e outlined here.

So with that,

i s t h e r e a n o t h e r member who would like to
c o m m e n t o n t h e resolution?
M R . U R A M:

Tom?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman,

a n d a l s o a s a c ollector of the Society of
M e d a l i s t s a n d m edals, as well, I think that

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t h i s i s o u t s t a n ding and is really going to
o p e n a p a l l e t o f freedom for our artist, but
m o r e i m p o r t a n t l y, I think it sets a new path
a n d a n e w d i r e c tion for the opportunities that
t h e M i n t a n d t h e United States has down the
road.
A n d I r elate that to the fact that
w e ’ r e p r o b a b l y seeing less--if you’re out with
t h e y o u n g e r g r o up, you will see that this is
t h e i r f o r m o f m oney.

And or of those of you

o n t h e p h o n e , I ’m talking about the iPhone.
A n d s o a s w e d o less and less with monetary
m o n e y , t h i s b e c omes a great opportunity to
c o n t i n u e o n t h e tradition of recognizing and
m a k i n g i n p o r t r ait the medals in significance
o f t h e U n i t e d S tates and that opportunity.
S o , a s we go more paperless and
c o i n a g e l e s s , i t certainly gives us new
o p p o r t u n i t i e s 2 0 years from now.

Not to say

t h a t w e ’ r e n o t going to be still doing some
a m o u n t o f t h a t , but I’m thinking that it’s
c e r t a i n l y g o i n g to be reduced, as we’re even

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t a l k i n g a b o u t i t today.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

I would encourage

o t h e r m e m b e r s t o offer their comments, members
o f t h e s u b c o m m i ttee, anyone would like to
comment?

J e a n n e?
M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:

Thank you, Gary.

I w a n t t o t h a n k Donald for a concise and
w o n d e r f u l h i s t o ry of medallic art, not just
f o r t h e w o r l d a nd FEDM, but for bringing this
p r o g r a m r e a l l y to the United States.

And it

i s a l s o m y d r e a m that the Mint would support
t h i s p r o g r a m , t o allow artists--our staff
a r t i s t s , a s w e l l as infusion artists--to
p a r t i c i p a t e i n some new ideas and some new
directions.
I e s p e c ially like the second part of
o u r p r o g r a m w h e re we’re allowing the artists
t o j u m p i n a n d do some designs of their own.
I l o o k a t t h e d esigns that we had today as
p e r h a p s b e i n g r esubmitted to this medallic art
program.

A n d n ot to have those artists be

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d i s c o u r a g e d b e c ause their designs weren’t
t a l k e d a b o u t t o day, but I think that they can
b e r e s u b m i t t e d for this program and perhaps
h a v e a b e t t e r c hance of being recognized.
A g a i n , thank you very much, Donald,
f o r h e l p i n g u s understand where we’re going
with this.

T h a nk you.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
w o u l d l i k e t o c omment?
D R . V I O LA:

Are there others who
Dr. Viola?

Well, I just want to say

t h a t f i r s t I w a s surprised.

As you know, I’m

t h e n e w e s t m e m b er of this Committee, but I’m
t h e h i s t o r i a n o n the Committee and I was
s h o c k e d w h e n I saw the resolution that we
d i d n ’ t h a v e s o m ething like this in America.
A n d I s aid, well, where have we been?
A n d I t h i n k t h i s is profoundly important and
s o I w a n t t o s a y as the historian on the
C o m m i t t e e , I ’ m so glad to be part of this
h i s t o r i c m o m e n t because I think anybody that
r e a l l y - - i f t h i s gets out to the public,
t h e y ’ l l w a n t t o see something like this

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c r e a t e d a n d I j ust want to say I’m so pleased
t o b e p a r t o f t hat effort.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M S . W A S TWEET:

Thank you.

Heidi?
Thank you, Donald and

J e a n n e , f o r a l l your comments.

I can’t add

m u c h , b u t I h a v e one little thing I wanted to
a d d i s t h a t t h i s art medal program is not
i n t e n d e d t o b e an insulated and self- indulgent
p r o g r a m , b u t r a ther fertile grounds to
e x p e r i m e n t a n d expand the Mint creativity,
w h i c h w i l l i d e a lly then bleed over into all
t h e o t h e r M i n t programs.

So it has that very

i m p o r t a n t f u n c t ion in the broader scope of all
that we do here.
I n t h e theme of these medals, we
d e b a t e d q u i t e a bit about how to word that and
w h e n w e s a y “ a n American theme in the broadest
s e n s e o f t h e w o rd,” we hope that the artist
w i l l t a k e t h a t opportunity to explore the vast
d i v e r s i t y o f t h is country.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you.

Thank you, Heidi.

t h e r e a n y o n e e l se?

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( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay, well at this

p o i n t t h e n I w o uld entertain a motion to
c o n s i d e r t h e r e solution, which is Resolution
2 0 1 4 -0 1 .
M R . S C A RINCI:

I would honored to make

that motion.
M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Second.

The motion has been

m a d e b y D o n a l d and seconded by Jeanne.

To

a p p r o v e r e s o l u t ion 2014- 01, which recommends
a n a n n u a l a r t s medal program to the United
States Mint.

A ll of those in favor, please

raise your hand?
( H a n d s raised.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

It is approved

u n a n i m o u s l y , t h ank you very much.
( A p p l a u se.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
a m o t i o n t o m a k e.

Now with that I have

I would like to make a

m o t i o n t h a t D e s ign Number 17 from the Platinum
S e r i e s b e r e f e r red to the new arts medal

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p r o g r a m , t h e A r ts Medal Series-M R . A N T ONUCCI:

Just not in platinum.

( L a u g h t er.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

--and that that

d e s i g n b e b r o u g ht back to us for consideration
i n n e x t y e a r ’ s portfolio for the Arts Medal
P r o g r a m f o r n e x t year.
W i t h t h at, that’s my motion.

Is there

a second?
M R . S C A RINCI:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

I second it.
Donald seconded it.

O k a y , i t ’ s b e e n moved and seconded to refer
D e s i g n N u m b e r 1 7 from the American Platinum
p o r t f o l i o t h a t we had here today to our new
A r t s M e d a l P r o g ram, all those in favor, please
raise your hand?
( H a n d s raised.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

It’s a unanimous

m o t i o n , t h a n k y ou very much.
M R . M O R AN:

Here’s what I have to say,

f o r j u s t a s e c o nd.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Yes?

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M R . M O R AN:

First of all, I’m

g r a t i f i e d t h a t the Committee supported the
subcommittee.

It’s a nice, warm feeling.

B u t , s e c o n d l y , we talked back with a
t e l e p h o n i c m e e t ing in June or July--whenever
i t h a p p e n e d - - a little bit about the gold
L i b e r t y w i t h e a gle being considered by the
Mint.

W e h a v e n ’t heard about how that has

p r o g r e s s e d a t t his meeting.
I t ’ s m y sense that the Mint has moved
t o a h i g h r e l i e f, as opposed to ultra- high
r e l i e f t o g i v e more flexibility to the artist.
I t h i n k t h a t ’ s very positive.

It certainly

w a s t h e i n t e n t that, from my comments in
a d v i s i n g o n t h a t program, that they make that
m o v e b e c a u s e u l tra- high relief has a specific
definition.

I think the relief needs to be

d e f i n e d b y t h e artist and by the Mint
p r o d u c t i o n s t a f f.
T h e s e c ond area that I’m not as
c o n f i d e n t o f , t here certainly is a lingering
t h o u g h t t h a t t h is design be struck on the

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p l a n c h e t t e t h a t the--what I call the checker
p i e c e - - t h e A u g u stus Saint- Gaudens piece--was
s t r u c k o n i n 2 0 09.

I feel that’s too

r e s t r i c t i v e a n d I would like a sense of the
C o m m i t t e e t h a t the Mint be encouraged to
s t r i k e i t o n a s large a planchette as they can
p o s s i b l y h a n d l e to give the artist more
f l e x i b i l i t y a n d incorporate varied elements
i n t o t h i s d e s i g n going forward.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Is that a motion,

Mike?
M R . M O R AN:

Whatever you want to make

i t , m a k e i t a m otion.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
on that.

Okay, let me comment

D o n a l d and I, I think, are the only

s u r v i v i n g m e m b e rs from the 2009 striking of
t h e D o u b l e E a g l e.

That planchette was used

b e c a u s e t h e g o a l was to accomplish something
t h a t t h e M i n t h ad not accomplished in 1907.
A n d t o d o t h a t it was an ultra- high relief,
w h i c h r e q u i r e d the 27 millimeter planchette,
w h i c h w a s t h e p lanchette that the men had been

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u n s u c c e s s f u l t r ying to strike in ultra- high
relief in 1907.
A t t h e time, the current Mint director
s a w t h i s a s a c hallenge for the Mint of
s o m e t h i n g t h a t had failed in the past and once
t h a t c h a l l e n g e had been met and accomplished,
t h e M i n t w o u l d then move forward.

And so I

w o u l d c o n c u r w i th Mike Moran’s comments that
w e ’ v e a c c o m p l i s hed that.

Organizationally,

t h e M i n t a c c o m p lished the challenge of an
u l t r a -h i g h r e l i ef on a 27- millimeter
planchette.
T h e d i s traction or the downside of
u s i n g t h e 2 7 -m i llimeter planchette for a one
o u n c e g o l d c o i n is that it is so small and
it’s very thick.

And it limits the ability

t o , w i t h t h e n a ked eye, see the fine detail
a n d e x p e r i e n c e the grandeur of a design
b e c a u s e i t b e c o mes so small.

And if you look

a t t h e D o u b l e E agle, the Double Eagle was
m a i n l y s t r u c k o n something like a 34m i l l i m e t e r p l a n chette--a much larger

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p l a n c h e t t e , m o r e along the lines of what
y o u ’ r e f a m i l i a r with, with the half- dollar.
A n d I t h i n k i t ’ s actually a little bit bigger
t h a n t h e h a l f -d ollar.
T h a t g i ves the artist an opportunity
t o m o r e f u l l y d isplay the details and to have
d e s i g n s t h a t h a ve more--for lack of a better
word--pop.

S o I would encourage, as Mike has,

t h e u s e o f a l a rger size planchette for a high
r e l i e f g o l d c o i n.
high relief.

We don’t need to do ultra-

A nd so I would agree with Mike.

I ’ m n o t s u r e w e need a motion on that, but
j u s t f o r t h e r e cord--and I would add to that,
t o o , t h a t t h e o pportunity to pair the silver
m e d a l w i t h t h e Silver Eagle is made all the
m o r e c o n g r u e n t , if you will, if that art medal
i s a l s o s t r u c k on the same planchette as the
Silver Eagle.

Then you have a natural pairing

a n d y o u h a v e t h e Double Liberty idea that I
suggested.
S o , a r e there any other comments
b e f o r e w e c o n c l ude our meeting today?

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M R . S C A RINCI:

I would just be remiss

i f I d i d n ’ t e m p hasize something, since you
r e f e r r e d t o a p eriod, an epoch.

The previous

M i n t D i r e c t o r s aid all the right things.

The

c u r r e n t M i n t D i rector, Richard Peterson, has
d o n e a l l t h e r i ght things.

And really, the

k u d o s , t h e c r e d it, the praise--while he’s
m o d e s t a n d d o e s n’t accept kudos and credit and
p r a i s e - - t h o s e w ho write history will give
R i c h a r d P e t e r s o n the credit, kudos, and praise
t h a t h e d e s e r v e s.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Donald.

O k a y , w e h a v e r eached--oh, Greg?
M R . W E I NMAN:

I wouldn’t be doing my

j o b a s c o u n s e l if I didn’t do this because
t h e r e a r e m e d i a on the phones say that,
o b v i o u s l y , a n y medal program will need to be
a p p r o v e d b y t h e Secretary before it becomes
formalized.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
yes.

Oh, absolutely.

Yes,

T h e o n l y thing that’s happened today is

t h a t t h i s C o m m i ttee’s performed its

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C o n g r e s s i o n a l l y mandated function to comment
on designs.
M R . W E I NMAN:

Absolutely.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

And to move the whole

e x e r c i s e o f m e d allic art and design forward.
A n d s o w e ’ v e p r ovided our recommendation to
the Mint.

F r o m this point, it’s up the Mint

a n d t h e U n i t e d States Treasury to work all of
t h a t o u t a n d d e termine what they’ll do with
o u r r e c o m m e n d a t ion.
M R . W E I NMAN:
M R . J A N SEN:

Absolutely.
I think you have a motion

on the floor.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . J A N SEN:

What was that?

To accept Number 17.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

We voted on Number

17, right?
M R . J A N SEN:

Did we vote on that?

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Yes, that was a

unanimous vote.
M R . J A N SEN:

We’ve got it.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay, we have reached

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the end of our-M S . S T A FFORD:

Mr. Chairman, I’m

sorry.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M S . S T A FFORD:

Oh.
To just add, a couple

o f o u r l i a i s o n s that participated in this
m e e t i n g a s k t h a t I convey their gratitude to
t h i s C o m m i t t e e for the work that you do.

They

a c k n o w l e d g e d t h at it’s no easy task,
e s p e c i a l l y , f o r example, in the “America, The
B e a u t i f u l ” p r o g ram to distill or try to
d i s t i l l t h e s u b ject matter down into a coin
d e s i g n a n d t h e y said that they really respect
t h e s e r i o u s n e s s with which you approach that
work.
O n e o f them actually noted that her
f a t h e r , w h o i s an avid coin collector, feels
t h a t i t i s a t r emendous honor for his daughter
t o b e p a r t o f t hat process with you and he
s a i d h e t h i n k s it’s the coolest thing that
s h e ’ s e v e r w o r k ed on.
( L a u g h t er.)

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M S . S T A FFORD:
pass that along.

So I just wanted to

The program manager felt

t h a t i t w a s i m p ortant to pass that along to
you.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, April.

I ’ l l t e l l y o u , I think I speak for many of us
w h e n I s a y , w e think this is the coolest thing
we get to do.

So with that we’ve reached the

e n d o f o u r a g e n da and we--well, before I
a d j o u r n I ’ l l j u st extend my thanks to the
C o m m i t t e e f o r y our hard work the last couple
of days.

C e r t a inly to the Mint staff for all

t h e w o r k y o u p u t into not only preparing this
m e e t i n g t o h a p p en, but also your engagement in
t h e p r o c e e d i n g s as we conduct them.
S o , w i t h that we are adjourned.
( W h e r e u pon, at 11:54 a.m., the public
m e e t i n g w a s c o n cluded.)

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