Full text of Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meetings, Recommendations, and Minutes : Meeting, September 23, 2014 : Transcripts

The full text on this page is automatically extracted from the file linked above and may contain errors and inconsistencies.

Capital Reporting Company

1

C I T I Z E N S COINAGE ADVISORY COMMITTEE

PUBLIC MEETING

T U E S D AY, SEPTEMBER 23, 2014

United States Mint
8 01 9 t h Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C.

Reported by:

C hristine Allen,
C apital Reporting Company

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

2
C O M M I T T E E M E M B E RS PRESENT:
M A R K S , G a r y , C h airman
JANSEN, Erik
SCARINCI, Donald
WASTWEET, Heidi
MORAN, Mike
B U G E J A , M i c h a e l , Dr.
S T E V E N S -S O L L M A N , Jeanne
HOGE, Robert
URAM, Thomas J.
LANNIN, Mary
V I O L A , H e r m a n , Dr.
U.S. MINT STAFF:
P E T E R S O N , R i c h a rd, Acting Director
ANTONUCCI, Steve
BIRDSONG, Betty
EVERHART, Don
NORTON, Bill
SULLIVAN, Megan
STAFFORD, April
VASQUEZ, Roger
WEINMAN, Gary
ALSO PRESENT:
B R A D L E Y , D e b b i e , Numismatic News ( telephonic)
P A T R I C K , A m a n d a , Public Affairs Officer,
S h a w n e e N a t i o n al Forest ( telephonic)
B O R N E M A N , C a r o l , Chief of Interpretation,
C u m b e r l a n d G a p National Park ( telephonic)
C O O K , A u t u m n , W eb Manager and Social Media
S p e c i a l i s t , H a rpers Ferry National
Historical Park
N A Y L O R , V a l e r i e , Superintendent, and
A N D E S , E i l e e n , Chief of Interpretation,
P u b l i c A f f a i r s Theodore Roosevelt National
P a r k (t e l e p h o n ic)
S T O N E , T i m , S u p erintendent, Fort Sumter
N a t i o n a l M o n u m ent
S A V A G E , J e f f , D irector, Fond du Lac Cultural
Center Museum
S W A I N , J o h n , C i vil Air Patrol Director,
G o v e r n m e n t R e l a tions

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

3
A G E N D A
PAGE

W e l c o m e a n d C a l l to Order

4

D i s c u s s i o n o f L etter and Minutes from
P r e v i o u s M e e t i ngs

10

R e v i e w a n d D i s c uss Candidate Designs for
t h e 2 0 1 5 F i r s t Spouse Program

11

R e v i e w a n d D i s c uss Candidate Designs for
t h e 2 0 1 6 F i r s t Spouse Program
98/140
Lunch

139

R e v i e w a n d D i s c uss Candidate Designs for
t h e 2 0 1 6 A m e r i c a the Beautiful Quarter

153

R e v i e w a n d D i s c uss Candidate Designs for
t h e F o n d d u L a c Code Talkers Recognition
C o n g r e s s i o n a l M edals
257/299
R e v i e w a n d D i s c uss Candidate Designs for
t h e C i v i l A i r P atrol Congressional
Gold Medal

267

U p d a t e o n R e c o m mendations for America the
B e a u t i f u l Q u a r t er

297

Recess

308

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

4
P R O C E E D I N G S
( 9:35 a.m.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
on the record.

Good morning.

We’re

This is the Tuesday, September

2 3 , 2 0 1 4 m e e t i n g of the Citizens Coinage
A d v i s o r y C o m m i t tee.

Welcome, everyone.

T h e f i r st item on the agenda today is
t h e s w e a r i n g i n and welcoming of our new
m e m b e r , D r . H e r man Viola, who is our new
m e m b e r e s p e c i a l ly qualified in American
history.

T o d a y , Deputy Director Peterson is

h e r e t o c o n d u c t the swearing in.
D i r e c t o r Peterson?
M R . P E T ERSON:

Could you join me?

(D r . V i ola sworn in.)
( A p p l a u se.)
M R . P E T ERSON:

Welcome to the Citizens

C o i n a g e A d v i s o r y Committee.

This is your

m o m e n t t o s a y h ello to the team.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Can we pick up the

m i c s o w e c a n g et this on the record?
D R . V I O LA:

Welcome, thank you so much

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

5
f o r t h i s i n v i t a tion.

You have no idea how

p l e a s e d I a m t o be part of this because as a
h i s t o r i a n , c o i n s and medallions have been an
i m p o r t a n t p a r t of my background, especially
education.
Y o u d o n ’t know much about me but
b a s i c a l l y I w r o te a textbook on U.S. American
History.

I w a s an archivist at the National

A r c h i v e s , w h i c h has custody of all our
p e r m a n e n t l y v a l uable records.

So, the Mint

C o i n a g e h a s a l l been part of my history, my
b a c k g r o u n d , m y interests.
M y p r i m ary interest is Western
H i s t o r y , e s p e c i ally American Indians.

You

h a v e n o i d e a h o w pleased I am about the Code
T a l k e r M e d a l P r ogram.

The fact is we have so

m i s u n d e r s t o o d a nd unappreciated the role of
A m e r i c a n I n d i a n s in our history.
O n e o f my books is about the Indians
in the military.

I have been working on this

p r o j e c t f o r m a n y, many years, but just to tell
y o u o n e q u i c k s tory, when you talk about how

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

6
l i t t l e w e k n o w about American Indians and
t h e i r r o l e i n t he military, we all know about
I w o J i m a , I r a H ayes carrying the flag, lifting
t h e f l a g , a t M o unt Suribachi, the one Indian.
W e l l , t he truth is, in working with
A m e r i c a n I n d i a n veterans, one Marine said
y e a h , y o u k n o w , Herman, all us Indians hung
a r o u n d t o g e t h e r in combat.

He said there we

w e r e u p o n t o p of Mount Suribachi, about a
d o z e n I n d i a n g u ys, so tired, so beat up, and
t h i s g u y c o m e s along and says can I take your
p i c t u r e , w i l l s omeone help me raise the flag.
W e a l l g r o a n e d , oh, no.
( L a u g h t er.)
D R . V I O LA:

Do you realize it could

h a v e b e e n a l l A merican Indians raising that
f l a g , a n d p e o p l e had no idea of this.

So,

t h a t ’ s w h y I t h ink these coins are so
i m p o r t a n t , i f w e can put the education out
t h e r e f o r p e o p l e to really appreciate all
this.
I ’ m s o glad that I can be a part of

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

7
this.

T h a n k y o u very much.
( A p p l a u se.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Dr. Viola,

a n d w e l c o m e t o our committee.

Before we get

s t a r t e d t o d a y , I just wanted to cover some
g r o u n d t o g e t e veryone oriented for our
meeting today.
W e d o h ave some guests here today who
w i l l s p e a k t o t heir programs.

I’m going to

q u i c k l y j u s t i n dicate who is here with us to
s p e a k o n b e h a l f of the programs today.
W e h a v e Tim Stone, Superintendent of
t h e F o r t S u m t e r National Monument.

Jeff

S a v a g e , D i r e c t o r, Fond du Lac Cultural Center
and Museum.

J o hn Swain, Civil Air Patrol,

D i r e c t o r , G o v e r nment Relations.
W e l c o m e to all of you.

We have a

c o u p l e o f j o u r n alists in the room.
McAllister.

Bill

A r e there any other press present

in the room?
M S . S T A FFORD:

Mf. McAllister actually

c o u l d n ’ t b e w i t h us today.

He’s ill.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

8
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
that.

Okay; sorry to hear

I ’ l l a s k if there are any press

r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s on the phone.

We would like

t o w e l c o m e y o u here and know you are among us.
M S . S T A FFORD:

I would actually ask do

w e h a v e a n y c o n nectivity with our folks on the
phone?

W e h a v e someone who is working out

t h a t i s s u e a s w e speak.

As soon as we find

o u t t h a t w o r k s -C H A I R M A N MARKS:

The assumption is

w e ’ r e n o t c o n n e cted at this point?
M S . S T A FFORD:

The folks that are

c a l l i n g i n ; t h a t’s correct.

The good news is

w e d o n ’ t h a v e a ny stakeholders with whom we
h a v e t o c o r r e s p ond with on this first program.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay.

If the staff

c o u l d i n d i c a t e to me when we are connected,
t h e n I ’ d l i k e t o see if we can get a record of
t h e p r e s s m e m b e rs who are on line.
M S . S T A FFORD:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
among us.

Will do.
So we can know who is

I w a s mentioning to the group

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

9
e a r l i e r t o d a y , we have a lot of work to do in
t h e n e x t d a y a n d a half.

We have several

p r o g r a m s e n c o m p assing about 152 designs.
W e ’ r e g o i n g t o move through this as
e f f i c i e n t l y a s we can while giving due time to
e a c h o f t h e p r o grams.

Our ultimate goal is to

m a k e s u r e t h a t we select the best designs
p r e s e n t e d f o r t he programs that are before us.
I ’ d l i k e to mention at the front end
o f e a c h o f t h e s e meetings that our process
m i g h t s e e m f o r e ign to you.

We usually go

t h r o u g h a p r o c e ss of first culling -- not
c a l l i n g - - c-u - l- l-i-n-g -- the designs out.
W e w i l l g o t h r o ugh an initial phase were we
t r y t o r e d u c e t he number of designs to those
t h a t t h e m e m b e r ship truly wishes to focus on.
T h a t w a y , w e c a n put more time on those
d e s i g n s t h a t w e feel are best suited for the
p a r t i c u l a r p r o g rams that we are looking at.
A s w e g o through, I’ll try to describe
w h a t w e a r e d o i ng.

I like to know that the

p e o p l e i n t h e r oom and on the phone understand

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

10
w h a t o u r p r o c e s s is.

We will try to do this

i n a n o r d e r l y f ashion.
W e w i l l give our liaisons
o p p o r t u n i t i e s t o speak, and then we will be
c l o s i n g t h o s e o pportunities and then the
C o m m i t t e e w i l l go into their focused
d i s c u s s i o n s a b o ut the designs.

If we have

q u e s t i o n s t h e r e after of program liaisons, then
w e w i l l b e i n t e rjecting those as may be
appropriate.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

So, with that, our

f i r s t i t e m o n t he agenda is the minutes from
o u r p r e v i o u s m e etings.

In the packet you have

m i n u t e s f r o m o u r June 2, July 8, and July 22
meetings.

I f t here are any comments on those

m i n u t e s , I ’ d b e pleased to take those now.

In

t h e a b s e n c e o f any comments, I’ll take a
M o t i o n t o a p p r o ve all three as a group.
M R . H O G E:

So moved .

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
Robert.

It has been moved by

I s t h e re a second?
M R . U R A M:

Second.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

11
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

It’s been moved and

s e c o n d e d t o a p p rove the minutes of June 2,
J u l y 8 , a n d J u l y 22, 2014.

All those in

f a v o r , p l e a s e s ay aye.
( C h o r u s of ayes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Opposed?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
Thank you.

Motion carries.

N e x t item on the agenda is the

r e v i e w a n d d i s c ussion of candidate designs for
t h e 2 0 1 5 a n d 2 0 16 First Spouse Program.

I’ll

l o o k t o A p r i l S tafford of the United States
M i n t f o r o u r r e port.
M S . S T A FFORD:

April?
Yes, sir.

I would add

b e c a u s e w e ’ r e n ew in this room, we’re just
w o r k i n g w i t h t h e lights here to see what’s
g o i n g t o b e b e s t to see the screen.

I think

w e a r e g o i n g t o have Betty and Roger bring the
l i g h t s u p o n t h is end of the room.

If it’s

h a r d t o s e e , p l ease just let us know.
S o m e b a ckground on the 2015 and 2016
F i r s t S p o u s e P r ogram golden medal designs.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

12
P u r s u a n t t o P u b lic Law 109- 145, the United
S t a t e s M i n t w i l l mint and issue four First
S p o u s e g o l d c o i ns in 2015 and two in 2016
u n d e r t h e s a m e schedule as the Presidential
D o l l a r C o i n P r o gram’s annual release.
T h e U n i ted States Mint is also
a u t h o r i z e d t o p roduce bronze medal duplicates
o f t h e s e d e s i g n s.

The legislation specifies

t h a t t h e d e s i g n on the obverse of each coin
i s s u e d s h a l l c o ntain the name and likeness of
a p e r s o n w h o w a s the spouse of a president
d u r i n g t h e p r e s ident’s period of service, an
i n s c r i p t i o n o f the years during which such
p e r s o n w a s t h e spouse of a president during
t h e p r e s i d e n t ’ s period of service, a number
i n d i c a t i n g t h e order of the period of service
i n w h i c h s u c h p resident served, and additional
o b v e r s e i n s c r i p tions which include “Liberty,”
“ I n G o d W e T r u s t,” and the year of minting.
T h e r e v erse of each coin issued shall
b e a r i m a g e s e m b lematic of the life and work of
t h e f i r s t s p o u s e whose image is borne on the

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

13
obverse.

A d d i t ional reverse inscriptions

i n c l u d e “ U n i t e d States of America,” “E.
P L U R I B U S U N U M , ” “$10,” “1/2 OZ.” and “.999
FINE GOLD.”
T h e s a m e obverse device will be used
f o r b o t h t h e g o ld coins and the bronze medals,
w i t h o u t o f c o u r se the inscriptions that would
b e i n a p p r o p r i a t e for a non- legal tender medal.
P l e a s e note that the slides indicate
t h e g o l d c o i n a nd medal version side by side,
a n d a s w i t h t h e 2014 designs, rather than
p r o v i d e t h e a r t ist with narratives, we
p r o v i d e d t h e m w ith background information
a b o u t e a c h f i r s t spouse.

This allowed for a

g r e a t e r r a n g e o f themes and the resulting
designs.

A s y o u recall, those themes were

b r o u g h t t o t h e CCAC for discussion.
A l l d e s igns have been reviewed for
h i s t o r i c a l a c c u racy by scholars recommended by
t h e W h i t e H o u s e Historical Association.
W e w i l l start with Bess Truman, the
o b v e r s e c a n d i d a te designs.

Bess Truman

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

14
m a r r i e d H a r r y T ruman in 1891, and she served
a s F i r s t L a d y f rom 1945 until the end of her
h u s b a n d ’ s p r e s i dency in 1953.

There are seven

o b v e r s e c a n d i d a te designs for your
consideration.
H e r e w e have obverse one, two, three,
f o u r , f i v e , s i x , and seven.
M r . C h a irman, would you like me to go
o n t o t h e r e v e r se designs?
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M S . S T A FFORD:

Yes, please.
Okay.

Moving on to the

r e v e r s e d e s i g n s for Bess Truman, of which we
h a v e s i x c a n d i d ate designs.

This is reverse

o n e , w h i c h f e a t ures the hands of Bess Truman
c r a d l i n g h e r h u sband’s campaign button,
r e p r e s e n t i n g M r s. Truman’s support of his
p o l i t i c a l c a r e e r.
R e v e r s e two, in 1948, Bess Truman
h e l p e d c a m p a i g n with her husband on his
w h i s t l e s t o p c a mpaign trip for reelection as
president.
R e v e r s e three depicts an image of an

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

15
e n g i n e r e m i n i s c ent of the 1940s locomotives,
w h i c h w o u l d h a v e carried the special
p r e s i d e n t i a l c a r Bess Truman rode on during
t h e c a m p a i g n t o ur.

This design was

r e c o m m e n d e d b y the CFA with modifications,
i n c l u d i n g r e m o v al of the bunting in order to
f o c u s o n t h e t r ain.

There was also some

s l i g h t s u p p o r t for the previous design,
r e v e r s e t w o , i f we could just go back and show
that again.
M o v i n g on to reverse four.

Bess

T r u m a n w a s i n t r oduced by her husband in many
o f h i s w h i s t l e stop speeches as “The Boss.”
M r s . T r u m a n i s depicted here waving from the
s p e a k i n g p l a t f o rm at the back of the train.
R e v e r s e five shows an American woman
g o i n g t h r o u g h r ation stamps to make a
purchase.

B e s s Truman, as with all Americans,

c o m p l i e d w i t h m andatory rationing at the White
H o u s e d u r i n g W o rld War II, and she continued
w i t h v o l u n t a r y food rationing following the
W o r l d W a r t o s u pport the United States’

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

16
e f f o r t s t o s e n d food donations to the people
o f E u r o p e d e v a s tated by war.
R e v e r s e six.

Bess Truman signed a

“ H o u s e w i f e ’ s P l edge,” a promise meant to
i n s p i r e f e l l o w Americans to follow the
g u i d e l i n e s f o r voluntary food rationing.

In

t h i s d e s i g n , a n allegorical Liberty carries
p r o d u c e f r o m a victory garden, one of several
w a y s t h a t A m e r i cans supplemented their
rationed diets.
T h a t c o ncludes the designs for Bess
Truman.

S h a l l I go on to the other First

Spouses?
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Yes, April.

I think

w h a t I ’ d l i k e t o do today is let’s go through
t h e f o u r F i r s t Spouses for 2015, and we will
b r e a k t h e r e , a n d we will have the Committee
l o o k a t o b v e r s e /reverse for that year.

Then

w e w i l l c o m e b a ck with a second iteration for
2016 -M S . S T A FFORD:

And go through them all

at once.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

17
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

-- the two spouses

for that year.
M S . S T A FFORD:

Yes, sir.

Moving on to

M a m i e E i s e n h o w e r obverse candidate designs.
M a m i e E i s e n h o w e r married Dwight D. Eisenhower
i n 1 9 1 6 a n d s e r ved as First Lady from 1953
until 1961.
W e h a v e five obverse candidate designs
f o r y o u r c o n s i d eration.

Here’s obverse one,

t w o , t h r e e , f o u r, and five.

Obverse five is

t h e C F A ’ s r e c o m mended obverse design here.
I f I m a y just for everyone’s
i n f o r m a t i o n , i f you could note that on Bess
T r u m a n ’ s o b v e r s e, the CFA recommended obverse
two.

I a p o l o g i ze for not including that at

the time.
M o v i n g on to the Mamie Eisenhower
r e v e r s e c a n d i d a te designs, of which there are
s i x , r e v e r s e s o ne and two feature the hand of
M a m i e E i s e n h o w e r lighting a candle before a
W h i t e H o u s e d i n ner.

Mrs. Eisenhower oversaw

a l l d e t a i l s f o r White House official functions

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

18
w h e t h e r t h e y i n volved dinner menus or the
p r o t o c o l f o r g r eeting dignitaries to the White
House.

H e r e i s reverse one and two.
R e v e r s e three depicts a hand holding

a n “ I L i k e M a m i e” button, highlighting her
r o l e i n h e r h u s band’s presidential campaign.
S h e w a s s o p o p u lar with the public that “I
L i k e M a m i e ” b u t tons mimicking the “I Like Ike”
b u t t o n s b e g a n t o appear.

This design is the

C F A ’ s r e c o m m e n d ed design.
M o v i n g on, reverse four depicts the
c l a s p e d h a n d s o f Mamie and Dwight Eisenhower,
a g l o b e , f i v e s tars across the top, and a DC54 airplane.

A s a military wife, Mamie

E i s e n h o w e r t r a v eled with her five star General
h u s b a n d a r o u n d the world.
R e v e r s e five depicts Mamie Eisenhower
w i t h h e r h u s b a n d on his whistle stop campaign
t o u r w h e r e s h e helped edit his speeches and
l e n t a p p e a l t o women voters.
R e v e r s e six depicts the first house
o w n e d b y t h e E i senhower’s.

Mamie Eisenhower

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

19
h a d a r e p u t a t i o n as a warm and hospitable
hostess.

A s s u ch, the Eisenhower’s’ homes

b e c a m e a p o p u l a r destination for their
f r i e n d s , f a m i l y , and military colleagues, and
w e r e o f t e n r e f e rred to as “Club Eisenhower.”
M o v i n g on to Jacqueline Kennedy.
J a c q u e l i n e K e n n edy married John F. Kennedy in
1 9 5 3 a n d s e r v e d as First Lady from 1961 until
1963.

T h e r e a r e eight obverse candidate

designs.
O b v e r s e one, two, three, four, five,
s i x , s e v e n , a n d obverse eight, which is also
t h e C F A ’ s r e c o m mended obverse.
M o v i n g on to the Jacqueline Kennedy
r e v e r s e c a n d i d a te designs, of which there are
f i v e f o r y o u r c onsideration.

Reverse one

d e p i c t s t h e e l o quent Saucer Magnolia, a flower
J a c q u e l i n e K e n n edy selected for planting in
t h e W h i t e H o u s e garden and at the Eternal
F r a m e , w h i c h w o uld become the final resting
p l a c e f o r h e r a nd the president.
T h e p e t als stretch across the globe,

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

20
i t s t i p s c o n n e c ting the points of some of her
m o s t n o t a b l e d i plomatic visits, Washington,
D . C . , C o l u m b i a and Venezuela, Morocco, Italy
a n d G r e e c e , a n d Paris and London.
R e v e r s e two features Jacqueline
K e n n e d y , a d e d i cated mother whose priority was
h e r y o u n g c h i l d ren, seen here holding her son,
J o h n , o n t h e W h ite House lawn.
R e v e r s e three represents Mrs.
K e n n e d y ’ s t o u r of the White House.

This was

n o t a b l e a s i t w as the first televised tour of
t h e W h i t e H o u s e given by a First Lady, and was
a l s o s h o w n t h r o ughout the world, including
F r a n c e , a v e r s i on in which Mrs. Kennedy gave
t h e t o u r i n F r e nch.
R e v e r s e four depicts the flag
p r e s e n t e d t o M r s. Kennedy at her husband’s
f u n e r a l i n t h e name of “A Most Mournful
Nation.”
S h e ’ s v ividly remembered for her grace
a n d s t r e n g t h d u ring this national tragedy.
T h e s t a r s r e p r e sent the loss of John F.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

21
K e n n e d y a s t h e 35

th

President with the 35

th

s t a r r e m o v e d a t the top of the composition.
R e v e r s e five.

As Jacqueline Kennedy

w a s a p e r s i s t e n t advocate for the arts, this
d e s i g n f e a t u r e s symbols for comedy and tragedy
t o r e p r e s e n t t h e theater, musical notes, and
t r e b l e c l e f t o represent music, and an
a r t i s t ’ s p a l l e t and brushes to symbolize the
visual arts.

T his was the design that the CFA

commented upon.

They prefer the theme that’s

d e p i c t e d i n t h i s reverse, but they noted they
w o u l d l i k e t h e arts theme to be represented,
a n d I ’ m q u o t i n g , “in a less cartoony fashion.”
T h e r e w a s a l s o some slight support for reverse
two by the CFA.
M o v i n g on to Lady Bird Johnson.

Lady

B i r d J o h n s o n m a rried Lyndon B. Johnson in 1934
a n d s e r v e d a s F irst Lady from 1963 until 1969.
W e h a v e s e v e n o bverse candidate designs.
O b v e r s e one, two, three, which I’ll
p a u s e a n d l e t y ou know this was the CFA’s
r e c o m m e n d e d d e s ign, although they wanted the

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

22
h a i r s t y l e i n t his design to be altered.
O b v e r s e four, obverse five.

This was

t h e h a i r s t y l e that the CFA thought would be
m o r e a p p r o p r i a t e and should be modified on
obverse three.

Obverse six and obverse seven.

M o v i n g on to the reverse designs, of
w h i c h t h e r e a r e eight.

All designs in this

r e v e r s e p o r t f o l io reflect Lady Bird Johnson’s
e f f o r t s i n t h e beautification and conservation
of America.

T h e Highway Beautification Act of

1 9 6 5 w a s k n o w n as Lady Bird’s bill because of
her support.
R e v e r s e one depicts the inscription
“ B e a u t i f y o u r C ity’s Parks and Highways,” the
W a s h i n g t o n M o n u ment and the Jefferson Memorial
g r a c e d b y a n a r rangement of flowers.

Mrs.

J o h n s o n s t a r t e d her beautification efforts in
W a s h i n g t o n , D . C . setting an example for other
American cities.

The CFA prefers reverse one

b e c a u s e o f t h e presentation of “beautify,”
t h a t p a r t o f t h e inscription, they feel it
h i g h l i g h t s t h e theme.

It also shows the urban

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

23
p l a n n i n g a s p e c t of her work, which included
f l o w e r s , t o b e a utify and soften buildings,
r o a d s , e t c e t e r a.

They did suggest that the

m o n u m e n t i n t h i s design be reduced slightly to
g i v e m o r e r o o m for the inscription.
R e v e r s e two conveys one of Lady Bird
J o h n s o n ’ s f r e q u ently quoted messages, “Where
F l o w e r s B l o o m , so Does Hope.”
R e v e r s e s three and four feature
v e h i c l e s t r a v e l ing along a highway with a
s t y l i z e d s u n i n the background.

Reverse three

m i r r o r s t h e s u n with the pedals of a Gerber
d a i s y w h i l e r e v erse four, shown here, depicts
a p p l e b l o s s o m s in the foreground.
R e v e r s e five shows gloved hands
p l a n t i n g m a r i g o lds.

Mrs. Johnson enjoyed

n a t u r e a n d w a s frequently photographed among
t h e w i l d f l o w e r s she helped to plant.
R e v e r s e six features a single
d a f f o d i l , r e p r e sentative of the millions of
d a f f o d i l s t h a t were planted during Lady Bird’s
b e a u t i f i c a t i o n of America.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

24
R e v e r s e seven presents a daffodil,
c e r e m o n i a l s h o v el, and Blue Bonnet flower,
r e p r e s e n t i n g M r s. Johnson’s commitment to the
b e a u t i f i c a t i o n of America and conservation of
t h e N a t i o n ’ s n a tural resources.
R e v e r s e eight depicts a solitary Blue
B o n n e t w i l d f l o wer found in the wilds of Texas
w h e r e M r s . J o h n son grew up appreciating the
b e a u t y o f n a t u r e.
M r . C h a irman, that concludes the 2015
portfolio.

I w ill also add that our

t e c h n i c i a n h a s noted that they are working to
r e s o l v e t h e p r o blem with the phones.

We will

l e t y o u k n o w a s soon as that is completed.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
April.

Okay.

Thank you,

A s i s o ur normal process, I’m going to

g o t h r o u g h o u r culling of the designs at this
point.

A f t e r t hat, I’ll for the members to

p r o v i d e a n y t e c hnical questions before we get
i n t o o u r i n d i v i dual comments on the designs.
S o , k e e p t h a t i n mind, that will follow this
culling process.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

25
B e f o r e we do the culling process, I
w a n t t o e n c o u r a ge members, in light of 79
F i r s t S p o u s e d e signs that we have in front of
u s , i t ’ s i m p e r a tive that we really are able to
f o c u s o n t h e b e st of the best in this
portfolio.
S o , w i t h that said, please, as we go
t h r o u g h t h e c u l ling process, if you only have
a p a s s i n g i n t e r est in a design, I’m going to
a s k a n d e n c o u r a ge you to not indicate that you
w o u l d l i k e t o h ave that in the portfolio.

I’m

g o i n g t o a s k t h at we truly try to focus on
t h o s e d e s i g n s t hat you can envision as the
r e v e r s e d e s i g n s for these coins.

I think that

w i l l h e l p o u r d iscussion today and give us
t i m e t o r e a l l y focus on the designs that would
b e m o s t a p p r o p r iate.
W i t h t h at, we will start with Bess
Truman.

I ’ l l a sk the operator of the screen

u p i n f r o n t i f we can throw these up as I try
t o g o t h r o u g h t hem.

Also, I’ll be holding

t h e m u p h e r e a t my spot at the dais.

I’ll be

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

26
m a k i n g t w o p i l e s.

When I’m done, I’ll recap

w h i c h d e s i g n s w e are going to move forward
w i t h f o r c o n s i d eration.
W e w i l l start with the Bess Truman
obverse.

F o r o ur new member, Dr. Viola, the

w a y w e d o t h i s is if a member wishes to
c o n s i d e r a d e s i gn, one member’s indication of
i n t e r e s t i s e n o ugh to keep it in
consideration.
A s I h o ld up these designs, indicate
i f i t i s s o m e t h ing you would like to see.
B e s s T r u m a n , n u mber one, is there interest in
number one?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
one aside.

We are setting that

B e s s Truman two?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Truman two is in.

Truman three?
( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Truman four?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

27
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Truman five?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Truman six?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting aside.

Truman seven?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
aside.

Setting that one

T h a t t a kes us to the reverse designs.

Reverse one.

I s there interest in reverse

one?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
aside.

We’ll set that one

R e v e r s e two?
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Reverse three?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Reverse four?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
Five?

Set that aside.

I n t e r e s t in five?
( N o r e s ponse.)

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

28
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Passing five by.

Number six?
( R e p o n s es of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
six.

There is interest in

T h a t t a k e s us to Mamie Eisenhower on the

obverses.

O b v e rse number one?

Interest in

one?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting aside.

Two?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting two aside.

Three?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting three aside.

Four?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting four aside.

Five?
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
a n o b v e r s e d e s i gn.

We have just picked

That was the last one,

folks.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

29
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . J A N SEN:

Maybe Don has a --

M S . S T A FFORD:
to interrupt.

Mr. Chairman, I’m sorry

Our technician has informed us

w e a r e c o n n e c t e d now on the phone.

We

a p o l o g i z e f o r t he technical difficulties.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you.

I’m going

t o p a u s e j u s t b riefly to welcome those on the
phone.

I w i l l ask for members of the press if

y o u w o u l d p l e a s e make yourself known so we
w i l l k n o w w h o i s out there.
M S . B R A DLEY:
Numismatic News.

Debbie Bradley from

If I could just ask,

s o m e t i m e s w h e n you call on people, when we
h a v e m o r e t h a n one “Mike,” if you might
m e n t i o n t h e l a s t name.

I can’t always tell

the voices.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
Debbie.

We’ll do our best,

A n y o n e else?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

It appears we only

h a v e D e b b i e o n the phone.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

30
M S . S T A FFORD:

We also have artists

joining us.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Sure.

I do want to

w e l c o m e t h e a r t ists.
U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:

They said they

w e r e g o i n g t o c ome back in in 15 minutes.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay; fine.

Still, I

w e l c o m e t h e a r t ists on the phone today.

With

t h a t , I b e l i e v e we are also going to have some
l i a i s o n s o n t h e phone.
M S . S T A FFORD:

They will be joining us

w h e n w e g e t t o their program on the agenda.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay; fine.

That

t a k e s u s b a c k t o our process, our initial
p r o c e s s o n t h e First Spouses.

We left off

w i t h t h e r e v e r s e designs for Mamie Eisenhower.
I s t h e r e i n t e r e st in reverse design one?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
aside.

We’ll set that one

Two?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

We’ll set that one

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

31
aside.

Three?
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Four?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Five?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting that aside.

Six?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting that aside.

W e w i l l g o t o J acqueline Kennedy.

Obverse

number one?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting that aside.

Number two?
( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Three?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting that aside.

Four?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting that aside.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

32
Five?
( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Six?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting that aside.

Seven?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Eight?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you.

That

t a k e s u s t o J a c queline Kennedy reverses.
Number one?
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number two?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting two aside.

Number three?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting three aside.

Four?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting four aside.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

33
Five?
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

That takes us to Lady

B i r d J o h n s o n f o r the obverses.

Obverse number

one?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Passing that one.

Number two?
( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Three?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number four?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
four.

Setting aside number

N u m b e r f ive?
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Six?

( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Seven?

( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Going to the

r e v e r s e s , r e v e r se number one?

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

34
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . J A N SEN:

Reverse number two?

Did design one get a

supporting vote?
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Yes.

Number two?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Nothing for two.

Three?
(R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Four?

(N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

No on four.

Five?

No on five.

Six?

(N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
(N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

No on six.

Seven?

(N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Passing on seven.

Eight?
(R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Yes.

That takes us

t o P a t r i c i a N i x on.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

35
M S . S T A FFORD:

I haven’t read the

i n f o r m a t i o n c o n cerning Mrs. Nixon.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
g e t t i n g a h e a d o f myself.

My apologies.

I’m

I will now move to a

r e c a p o f t h a t e xercise to make sure everyone
k n o w s w h i c h o n e s we will be focusing on.
F o r B e s s Truman, obverses two, three,
four.

T h o s e a r e the three designs for the

obverses.

F o r reverses, we’ll be looking at

n u m b e r t w o , n u m ber three, number six as the
t h r e e r e v e r s e d esigns for Bess Truman.
M a m i e E isenhower, obverse number five.
T h a t ’ s a l l w e h ave.

For reverses, we have

n u m b e r t h r e e , n umber four, and those two only.
J a c q u e l ine Kennedy, we have obverse
t w o , f i v e , a n d eight, so those three.

For

r e v e r s e s , w e h a ve number one and number five,
only those two.
L a d y B i rd Johnson, obverses, two,
t h r e e , f i v e , s i x, and seven.

Reverses for

L a d y B i r d J o h n s on, we have number one, number
t h r e e , a n d n u m b er eight.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

36
M R . J A N SEN:

Seven was eliminated.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
Thank you.

Seven was eliminated.

S o , at this point, we know which

o n e s w e a r e g o i ng to focus on, so if you have
t e c h n i c a l q u e s t ions about any of those
d e s i g n s , I w o u l d ask you to direct those to
t h e s t a f f a t t h is time.
T h o s e w ould be designs you want to
q u e s t i o n h o w s o mething might present itself
o n c e i t ’ s c o i n e d, questions about
i n s c r i p t i o n s , a ll those things that we would
l i k e t o g e t a d d ressed before we talk about the
art itself.
S o , i f you have any of those sorts of
q u e s t i o n s , I ’ d ask you to direct those to the
staff now.

A n y one?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Wow!

Okay.

So, that

m e a n s w e w i l l g o to our comment period, and
f o r o u r n e w m e m ber, Dr. Viola, what we do is
e a c h m e m b e r h a s an opportunity to go through
a n d c o m m e n t o n as many of the designs as they

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

37
wish.

Y o u d o n ’ t have to comment on every

design.

W e ’ r e going to have several members

go before you.

Just to kind of offer your

i n s i g h t s a n d y o ur preferences about what you
are seeing.
S o , w i t h that, I’m going to ask our
r e s i d e n t e x p e r t on First Spouses, my esteemed
c o l l e a g u e , M i c h ael Moran, if he’ll begin, and
t h e n w e w i l l m o ve to his right after that.
M R . M O R AN:

Thanks, Gary.

t h a t I l i k e w i t h Bess Truman.

I have two

Both of them

w e r e p i c k e d b y the Committee to talk about.
N u m b e r t w o , t h i s is based -- although the
i m a g e h a s b e e n flipped -- it’s based on a
c h a r c o a l d o n e b y Bob Hoke.
i m a g e w h e r e s h e sat for it.
good one.

Therefore, it’s an
I think it’s a

I t h ink it’s one that she

p a r t i c u l a r l y l i ked.

That is why it was one of

my choices.
M y r e a l choice is number three.
A g a i n , i f y o u l ook at the images of Bess
T r u m a n , i t i s v ery close to an autographed

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

38
p h o t o g r a p h o f h er that was given out by the
White House.

T herefore, it is her choice of

h o w s h e w a n t e d to look.

Therefore, it gets my

v o t e a s t o t h e image that we use there.
G a r y , d o you want me to do the
r e v e r s e s a s w e l l?
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . M O R AN:

Yes, please.

Okay.

I had two there

t h a t I l i k e d , n umber two and three both.

I

t h i n k m y p r e f e r ence is for number three,
s i m p l y b e c a u s e of the fact that it represented
a t t h a t p o i n t i n time the trains of the
f u t u r e , t h e w h e els in number two are basically
f r o m a s t e a m e n gine, and to me, that denotes
t h e p a s t , s o m y vote will go for number three
there.
T h a t ’ s it.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Did you want to

c o m m e n t o n t h e other First Spouses?
M R . M O R AN:
whole thing?

O kay.

You want me to do the
Give me a chance to go

t h r o u g h t h e m f o r a second.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

39
O n M a m i e Eisenhower, number six.
d e t e s t e d t h e o t hers.

I’m at no help

w h a t s o e v e r o n t he reverses.
s i n g l e o n e o f t hem.

I

I didn’t like a

Therefore, I have nothing

t o s a y a b o u t t h em, three or four.
O n J a c k ie Kennedy, to me it’s clear -I w a s a t e e n a g e r when she was First Lady, so I
h a v e i m a g e s o f her in my mind, and I think
n u m b e r e i g h t r e ally captures what she looked
like to me.

I t ’s well done.

It shows a

c o n f i d e n t F i r s t Lady, which she certainly was.
E x c e l l e n t i m a g e of her.
A s f a r as the reverses go, I thought
t h a t w a s c l e a r l y number one.

I really like

t h a t i m a g e o f t he magnolia leaf superimposed
over the globe.

I think it can be a very

h a n d s o m e r e v e r s e for the First Lady, so that’s
my choice there.
O n L a d y Bird, I had troubles with
these.

W h e n y o u go and look at the images, I

c a n u n d e r s t a n d why they picked number five,
t h e C F A , o r t h e y liked that hairdo.

I don’t

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

40
like the hairdo.

I felt number two softened

her image there.

I’d be surprised if it gets

p i c k e d , b u t t h a t was my choice.
O n t h e reverse, to me, it’s clear it’s
the last one.

It’s a good, clean feel, as

H e i d i w o u l d s a y , a nice use of negative space.
I t d o e s n ’ t c l u t ter.

I think it tells a story

o f h e r o n h e r w ildflowers.
M R . J A N SEN:

I like that image.

Are you speaking of

number eight?
M R . M O R AN:

Number eight; yes.

That’s

it.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Michael.

Erik?
M R . J A N SEN:

I like the art that we

h a v e h e r e t o d a y , and I would increasingly make
t h a t c o m m e n t a s today and tomorrow goes on, so
I r e a l l y a p p r e c iate the amount and the
i n t e n s i t y t h a t went into the art work we’re
getting.

E v e r y meeting, it seems to be

g e t t i n g b e t t e r , so I thank the in- house as
w e l l a s t h e e x t ernal contracted artists for

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

41
their work.
B e s s T r uman obverse, I’m also going to
e c h o M i k e M o r a n ’s comments, number three.

I

t h i n k i t i s t h e preferred image of the First
Wife herself.

When it comes to the Bess

T r u m a n r e v e r s e , I would favor design number
t w o , n o t w i t h s t a nding the comments that Mike
M o r a n j u s t m a d e regarding the kind of
h i s t o r i c a l p e r s pective of steam versus diesel.
S o , I ’ m torn between two and three.
I ’ m n o t a f a n o f First Spouse themes where the
F i r s t S p o u s e i s championing -- doing
c a m p a i g n i n g w i t h her husband, whistle stopping
w i t h h e r h u s b a n d.

We have seen that many,

many times.
I d o n ’ t find it’s a distinctive
a t t r i b u t e t h a t I think belongs on the reverse
o f t h e s e c o i n s , although because we’re talking
a b o u t a p o l i t i c al couple, it’s almost always
an attribute.
S o , I a m almost indifferent between
t w o a n d t h r e e , and I’ll wait and see how the

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

42
t r a i n l e a v e s t h e station on that one.
E i s e n h o wer, obviously, I think design
n u m b e r f i v e g e t s my endorsement.

On the

r e v e r s e , I ’ m f a voring design number three just
b e c a u s e t h e “ I Like Ike” was such a notable
p o l i t i c a l m a n t r a.
did like her.

“I Like Mamie,” the country

I think that works, that fits.

T h e i m a ge tells the story very
l i t e r a l l y t o t h e observer, and I think for as
m u c h a s I w o u l d like symbolic and not pictures
i n m e t a l o n s o m e of these things, I think it
g i v e s t h e o b s e r ver the immediate message that
s h e w a s l i k e d a s a person, as a persona, so
I ’ m g o i n g t o f a vor that one.
I f I h a ve a back- up, it is design
number four.

I t reminds me of the hand on the

c a n e t o p k i n d o f message that we did for
W i l s o n , w h e r e i n his decimation, she stood
h o l d i n g h i s h a n d and doing the work with him.
S o , i t ’ s n o t a s powerful an image as the hands
o n t h e c a n e w a s but nonetheless, that would be
m y s e c o n d c h o i c e.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

43
W h e n i t comes to Jackie Kennedy, on
t h e o b v e r s e , I go with design number eight.
I , t o o , w a s a t een or slightly younger -s o r r y , M i k e - - when she was in office.

Design

n u m b e r e i g h t i s the beauty, the elegance, the
c o n f i d e n c e , a n d the Jackie Kennedy which I saw
a n d i s i n d e l i b l y in my memory.
W h e n I go to the reverse for Jackie
K e n n e d y , t h a n k you to the Mint for including
t h e a r t i s t n o t e s on this, because in this
p a r t i c u l a r c a s e , it made all the difference to
me.
A s w e w ind down this series, I’m
c o n s t a n t l y l o o k ing for new images, new ideas,
n e w s y m b o l s , d i fferentiation, which captures
t h e u n i q u e n e s s of the First Spouse involved.
D e s i g n number five does that.

We

h a v e n ’ t u s e d a n y of these symbols throughout,
i t c a r r i e s t h e story of one of her passions.
I f I h a d a s e c o nd choice, it would be design
number one.

I t is reminiscent back to the

g o l d m e d a l w e d id for the micro- grants.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

44
I f d o n e well, that is with good
r e l i e f , I t h i n k it could be an outstanding
i m a g e , w i t h a l l due respect to the production
d e m a n d s , t h e d i e life and so forth, I think
t h a t n e c e s s a r y relief to bring the leaves of
t h e f l o w e r f o r w ard over the map will be lost,
s o I s t r o n g l y e ndorse design number five as
o n e t h a t w i l l s urvive the rigors of production
v o l u m e r e q u i r e m ents.
L a d y B i rd Johnson obverse, my favorite
c h o i c e i s d e s i g n number two.
t h e h a i r s t y l e i n three.

I’m not fond of

I personally cannot

e v e r r e m e m b e r s eeing her hair in that mode.
I t k i n d o f o p t s itself out automatically in
that regard.
W h e n I actually looked at the
r e n d e r i n g s i n t he diameter of the coin itself,
I a c t u a l l y s a w myself drawn to design number
five.

I f o n e i s able to ignore the darkness,

t h e c o n t r a s t i n the image that has been shown
h e r e , a n d a c t u a lly view it on the coin, it
a c t u a l l y c o u l d work.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

45
S o , I ’ m going to support five with a
w e a k e r v o t e t h a n supporting design number two.
W h e n i t comes to the reverse for Lady
B i r d J o h n s o n , m y eye, my sense of it
i m m e d i a t e l y w e n t to three and for that matter
four.

T h r e e i s where it really went because I

s a i d t o m y s e l f this is an eye catching design,
w h a t i s g o i n g o n here.

I immediately wanted

t o r e a d a n d u n d erstand why this image had been
c o n j u r e d f o r t h by the artist that put it out
there.
S o , I ’ m intrigued.

I just love the

g r a p h i c , i f I d are reduce this to a graphic
a r t i s t s y m b o l o f design number three.
f o n d o f e i g h t o r seven.

I’m not

They’re generic.

T h e y d o n ’ t r e a l ly say much to me.
t h e r e i s a g a r d ener involved.
m o r e t o t h e s t o ry than that.

Seven says

I think there’s
Six is a

w o n d e r f u l i m a g e , probably gets my back- up
vote.

I t h i n k the Fine Arts’ choice, design

n u m b e r o n e , w o u ld come in third, although I’m
n o t l i k e l y t o v ote for it at all.

Thank you.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

46
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Erik.

For

m y c o m m e n t s , s t arting with Bess Truman, I like
n u m b e r f o u r o n the obverse.

I’ll just comment

a s I h a v e s o m e t hing worth saying.

Going to

t h e r e v e r s e , I was particularly taken with
number two.

I don’t think we have seen

a n y t h i n g e v e n a pproaching something like this
f o r t h e F i r s t S pouse series.

It’s a new and

d i f f e r e n t w a y o f looking at a design for this
program.
F o r m e , this is kind of what I’ve been
a s k i n g f o r , w h e n I talk about modern designs.
I t h i n k p a r t i c u larly on the medal, when we get
r i d o f t h e o u t e r band, I think that will look
r e a l l y s p e c t a c u lar.
H e r e ’ s my only concern about this, and
I t h i n k i t c a n be addressed.

If we treat all

o f t h e d e s i g n a s a raised sculpted element,
w e ’ r e g o i n g t o get a lot of white on the proof
version.
I w o u l d look for opportunities, you
k n o w , o n t h e l e ft and right sides, just above

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

47
t h e r a i l , y o u s ee some dark space in there
t h a t I t h i n k i s meant to represent gravel, I
w o u l d l i k e t o o pen those up into fields,
p o l i s h e d f i e l d s , look for those areas -- I’m
n o t a r a i l r o a d expert -- I’ll call them
“ s p o k e s ” o f t h e wheel, where there is not
o b v i o u s l y m e c h a nisms behind them.

I would

l i k e t o o p e n t h ose up.
I t m a y be an opportunity for a limited
a p p l i c a t i o n o f our layering of frost, I think,
i f y o u p u t t h e wheel itself at one layer and
t h e n t h e a r m m e chanisms in another, I wouldn’t
g o t o o f a r w i t h that, maybe two different
layers.

I t m i g ht help create some definition

to the design.
I ’ m v e r y excited about this design and
t r u l y h o p e t h i s is one we will select.

I

t h i n k w e w i l l b e very pleased if we do,
p a r t i c u l a r l y i f some focused attention is put
o n t h e p r o o f v e rsion and how we create both
p o l i s h e d f i e l d s and the raised frosted
elements.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

48
M o v i n g on to Mamie Eisenhower, I don’t
n e e d t o c o m m e n t on the obverse, we have pretty
m u c h r e c o m m e n d e d that.

Kudo’s to the artist

w h o d i d n u m b e r one and two.

I know we

e l i m i n a t e d t h o s e but a symbolic attempt.
j u s t w a n t e d t o recognize that.

I

I think it’s

m o v i n g i n t h e r ight direction, not quite right
for this one.

I think we just did a candle

l i g h t i n g v e r y s imilar to this for Eleanor
Roosevelt.

I ’ m not sure we would be serving

M a m i e r i g h t t o do something that looked so
much similar.
W i t h t h e two that were recommended, I
c a n ’ t s a y I h a v e a strong preference, and I’ll
b e l i s t e n i n g t o my colleagues on which way to
g o o n n u m b e r s t hree or four.
M o v i n g on to Jacqueline Kennedy, on
t h e o b v e r s e s , I ’m taken with both two and
e i g h t , w i t h s o m e caution.
on another one.

Erik mentioned this

Sometimes I’m seduced by the

s h a d i n g a n d t h e drawing lines, which of
c o u r s e , d i s a p p e ar in sculpt.

So, I’m not sure

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

49
h o w t h i s r e a l l y presents itself when it’s a
sculpted coin.
A t t h i s point, I’m leaning towards
n u m b e r e i g h t b e cause I just think it’s a
r i c h e r d e s i g n , not by a long shot, but a
l i t t l e b i t r i c h er than number two.

I could be

s w a y e d e i t h e r w ay.
G o i n g o n to Kennedy reverses, I like
b o t h o n e a n d f i ve.

Number one, I guess this

i s o n e t h a t i n the proof version, I would have
s o m e c o n c e r n t h at we create some contrast
here.

I w o u l d suggest the water or the ocean

a r e a s o f t h e g l obe become polished fields.
T h a t w o u l d g i v e us some nice contrast for the
l a n d m a s s e s a n d for the flower.
I ’ m n o t sure that’s the one I support
t h e m o s t , b u t i f that’s selected, I would hope
w e w o u l d c r e a t e some contrast there.

I’m

h o p i n g t h e d a r k ness that I see now on the
o c e a n a r e a s o f the globe is not intended to be
a frosted area.
N u m b e r five, I really like number five

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

50
a n d w i t h g r e a t and due respect for the CFA,
t h e c o m e d y a n d tragedy masks look like comedy
a n d t r a g e d y m a s ks.

I don’t see cartoons here.

I t h i n k t h e a r t ist did a good job of showing
w h a t t h o s e m a s k s are.
w e l l d o n e d e s i g n.

I think this is a very

I think it would be a

p a r t i c u l a r l y b e autiful one in a proof version
w i t h t h e n i c e b alance of the frosted and the
p o l i s h e d f i e l d s that we would have.
G o i n g o n to Lady Bird Johnson, on the
o b v e r s e s , y o u k now, I like number three but
I ’ m n o t c o n v i n c ed it’s her.
b e c a u s e i t ’ s a nice drawing.

It’s too bad
I’m just not

sure it’s her.
S o , a t this point I think I’ll be
s u p p o r t i n g n u m b er seven.

I think from my very

v a g u e m e m o r i e s , I was a very small boy at the
t i m e - - I t h i n k that’s Lady Bird Johnson.
I ’ l l b e s u p p o r t ing that design.
G o i n g o n to the reverses, as someone
w h o s p e n d s h i s time, his professional life, as
a c i t y m a n a g e r in the whole area of community

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

51
b e a u t i f i c a t i o n , Lady Bird Johnson holds a
s p e c i a l p l a c e i n my heart.

I usually like to

s t a y a w a y f r o m architecture and go towards
other elements.

I really do like number one.

I k n o w t h e C F A , that was their choice.
Correct, April?
M S . S T A FFORD:

Yes.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

I like that one.

A g a i n , i n t h e p roof version I think there
c o u l d b e s o m e n ice contrast with that.
H o w e v e r , I ’ l l a gree with my colleague, Mr.
J a n s e n , t h a t n u mber eight -- Mr. Moran.
l i k e t h a t o n e a lso.

I

I could be swayed in that

d i r e c t i o n a s w e ll.
T h a t c o ncludes my comments.

I’ll pass

t h e d i s c u s s i o n now to Heidi.
M S . W A S TWEET:

Thank you, Gary.

First

o f a l l , m y c o m p liments to the Mint and the
artists.

I t h i nk our entire packets that we

a r e s e e i n g t h i s time is reaching new heights
a n d I ’ m r e a l l y pleased with the quality that
we are seeing.

Some really missed the mark.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

52
W e h a v e s o m e n e w people that have come on and
t h e r e i s a b i t of a learning curve, but the
h i g h ’ s a r e v e r y high, and I was pleased when I
got my packet.

So, some compliments there.

S t a r t i n g with Bess Truman, as the
s p e c i a l i s t o n t his Committee in sculpture,
w h e n I l o o k a t these designs, part of the
q u e s t i o n t h a t I ask myself is would I want to
s c u l p t f r o m t h i s drawing.

Is there enough

i n f o r m a t i o n h e r e, how would it translate to a
t h r e e d i m e n s i o n al sculpture, and into the
r e f l e c t i v e p r o p erties of metal.

So, those

q u e s t i o n s w i l l guide some of my picks.
I n t h e Bess Truman portraits of two,
t h r e e a n d f o u r , I would most like to sculpt
f r o m d r a w i n g n u mber two, the amount of
i n f o r m a t i o n t h e re, the particular angles
a p p e a r t o m e a s a sculptor, the textures.

I

t h i n k t h i s w o u l d make a lovely metal.
T h r e e a nd four, I think, do capture
h e r l i k e n e s s a n d are nice drawings, but as a
s c u l p t u r e , I t h ink number two is slightly

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

53
b e t t e r t h a n t h r ee and four.
O n r e v e rse, I was very excited when I
s a w d e s i g n n u m b er two.

We have been asking

r e p e a t e d l y f o r symbolism, and this hits the
m a r k , f o r t w o r easons.

It not only symbolizes

h e r w o r k o n t h e campaign trail but it also
s y m b o l i z e s a g e neralized sense of progress,
m o v e m e n t f o r w a r d, and industry in her time in
office.
I a g r e e with Gary’s remarks about
a d d i n g s o m e f i e lds down where there is
c u r r e n t l y g r a v e l plus frost to increase the
c o n t r a s t , b u t t his is going to make a really
n i c e l o o k i n g c o in when it is in metal, the
r e f l e c t i v e p r o p erties are really going to
highlight here.
I c o u l d also get behind design number
three.

T h e C F A suggested removing the

b u n t i n g s , b u t I think that is really integral
t o t h i s d e s i g n ; it is the artist’s intention
t o h a v e t h a t t h ere.
that.

I disagree with removing

I f w e c h oose this design, it would be

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

54
a s i s , b u t s t i l l preferring design number two.
O n t o M amie Eisenhower, obverse, we
a r e a l l i n s t r o ng support of number five,
c o m p l i m e n t s t o the artist.
v e r y n i c e d r a w i ng.

I think it’s a

Reverses, I agree with

p r e v i o u s c o m m e n ts that I wasn’t bowled over by
a n y o f t h e s e d e signs, and I’m torn between
d e s i g n n u m b e r t hree about which is better.
I ’ m n o t c r a z y a bout either one.

The button

c o u l d m a y b e h a v e been a little better if it
w a s s h o w n w o r n on a lapel.
N u m b e r four, there is a little anatomy
i s s u e w i t h t h e wrist on her hands.

I’m

c o n f i d e n t t h a t our sculptors could correct
t h a t i f w e g i v e them the leverage to do so.
l i k e t h e s y m b o l ogy of that, that she was well
traveled.

T h a t was important to her role.

I ’ m l e a n i n g t o w ard number four.
O n K e n n edy, obverses, number five I
t h i n k i s n o t r e aching the benchmark of a
likeness of her.
five.

I’m not in favor of number

N u m b e r t wo is okay but I have a strong

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

I

Capital Reporting Company

55
p r e f e r e n c e f o r design eight.

I think this

r e a l l y d o e s c a p ture her likeness.

It is

b e a u t i f u l l y d r a wn, the expression is very
nice.

I t h i n k we can’t ask for much more than

t h i s i n a p o r t r ait.
O n t h e reverses of Kennedy, I think
d e s i g n n u m b e r o ne is really beautiful.
g o i n g t o s c u l p t well.

It is

It’s going to look

w e l l , a c t u a l s i ze, the reflective properties
a r e g o i n g t o w o rk really well in metal.

I

a g r e e w i t h w h a t Gary said about adding
c o n t r a s t t o t h e water sections with polish.
t h i n k i t a l s o h as meaning to her diplomatic
a c c o m p l i s h m e n t s , although one has to dig a
l i t t l e t o s e e t hat meaning, it is there.
I a g r e e with the CFA comments about
d e s i g n n u m b e r f ive in that the subject matter
i s v e r y a p p r o p r iate, her work in the arts.
H o w e v e r , t h e d e sign really misses the mark.
I t ’ s t r y i n g t o fit in all the aspects of the
a r t s t o o l i t e r a lly.
the painting.

The theater, the music,

It looks very Clip Art.

We

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

I

Capital Reporting Company

56
h a v e s e e n t h e s e icons too much.

It’s not

s h o w i n g u s a n y t hing new.
R a t h e r than trying to encompass all of
t h e s e t h i n g s , i t would have been so much more
a t t r a c t i v e t o j ust find one aspect.

If we had

s o m e a v e r y a r t istic rendering of some ballet
d a n c e r s a n d t h e ir wonderful gestures and form,
t h a t w o u l d h a v e been much more attractive and
s t i l l g o t t h e m essage across without resorting
t o t h i s C l i p A r t kind of design.

So, I’m

g o i n g t o v o t e a gainst this one on that merit.
O n t o L ady Bird Johnson, the CFA made
a c o m m e n t t h a t they liked the hair of three
a n d t h e f a c e o f five, I believe.
M S . L A N NIN:

Hair of five and face of

three.
M S . W A S TWEET:

Hair of three, face of

five.
M R . M O R AN:

No, hair of five.

M S . S T AFFORD:

CFA preferred design

n u m b e r t h r e e a s long as the hairstyle on that
d e s i g n c o u l d b e modified to be more like that

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

57
seen in five.

Basically saying the hair needs

t o b e r e w o r k e d on three.
M S . W A S TWEET:
i t ’ s t o o m u c h c hange.

Either way, I think
Too much design by

C o m m i t t e e t o t a ke hair of one, face of
another.

H o w d o we attribute the artist in

the initials.

It’s a sticky situation.

M S . S T A FFORD:

We would simply ask the

a r t i s t t o m o d i f y the hair to make it
appropriate.
M S . W A S TWEET:

I think it’s still a

s t i c k y a r e a t o ask one artist to copy the
h a i r s t y l e o r t h e face.

Do you approach the

a r t i s t o f t h r e e or the artist of five to
modify?
M S . S T A FFORD:

We would ask the artist

o n d e s i g n o b v e r se three to modify the hair,
t h a t t h e h a i r i s not in keeping with the era
o r a t t r a c t i v e i n this design.
u s e n u m b e r f i v e as an example.

We would simply
We would not

by any
means --

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

58
M S . W A S TWEET:

Not copy?

M S . S T A FFORD:

No, no.

The CFA

h a p p e n e d t o m e n tion number five, that the
h a i r s t y l e i s m o re in keeping with that time,
m o r e r e m i n i s c e n t.
M S . W A S TWEET:

Closer to that rather

than copying?
M S . S T A FFORD:

Correct, as an example,

a s l o o k i n g a c r o ss the portfolio.
M S . W A S TWEET:
clarification.

Thank you for that

I would be fine with that.

H o w e v e r , a s a c omplete package, if we had to
v o t e o n s o m e t h i ng “as is,” I would lean
t o w a r d s f i v e o r seven.
a r e a l s o i n o u r mix.
a d e q u a t e l i k e n e ss.

I believe six and two
I think those are not an

I would stick with three,

f i v e o r s e v e n f or likeness.
O n t h e reverse, I find this a tough
choice.

I l i k e one and three.

I’ll wait to

h e a r o t h e r c o m m ents around the table before I
make my choice.

I like both of those.

On

n u m b e r e i g h t , w hile this is an attractive

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

59
d e s i g n , I t h i n k it’s not broad enough.
A s a p r evious example, we had cherry
b l o s s o m s , w h i c h were symbolic and really hit
t h e m a r k , b u t h ere, I think just the flower
d o e s n ’ t s a y q u i te enough about what she did.
I ’ m g o i n g t o k e ep my votes to one and two and
w e w i l l s e e h o w that pans out after I hear
more comments.
M R . J A N SEN:

One and three, I presume.

M S . W A S TWEET:

Excuse me.

What did I

say?
M R . J A N SEN:

You said one and two.

M S . W A S TWEET:
three.

Excuse me, one and

T h a n k y ou for the correction.

That

c o n c l u d e s m y c o mments.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Than you, Heidi.

We

w i l l g o t o J e a n ne.
M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:

Thank you, Gary.

G o i n g t o B e s s T ruman, I’m going to have to
r e s e r v e m y c o m m ents to our historian, Michael
Moran.

I a p p r e ciate your comments, Michael,

on Bess Truman.

I will go with your

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

60
recommendation.
two.

I believe you chose number

S h e s e e m e d to have the most likeness of

w h a t I r e m e m b e r her to be.
O n t h e reverse, reverse number two, I
a g r e e w i t h m y c olleagues.

This is absolutely

f a n t a s t i c . I ’ m very pleased that the artists
h a v e k i n d o f s t epped out of the box a little
b i t a n d j u m p e d into something really bold.
D e s i g n n u m b e r t hree also is an attempt to do
this.
I l o v e this train image.

However, the

b u n t i n g , i t s e e ms like it’s a stop, something
t h a t s t o p s t h e train.

Maybe this is why the

C F A w a n t e d t o r emove it.

Although it’s a good

d e s i g n , I ’ m g o i ng to go with number two.
O n M a m i e Eisenhower, we have chosen
a l r e a d y o b v e r s e number five.
a g r e e w i t h H e i d i.

Reverse, I also

It’s a toss- up with number

t h r e e a n d n u m b e r four.

Initially, I think

n u m b e r t h r e e i s bold, it’s exciting, I kind of
w i s h t h e h a n d w asn’t there and it was a lapel.
I t w o u l d m a k e a little more sense.

Number

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

61
f o u r , I t h i n k t he artist was trying really
h a r d t o c a p t u r e the support that this military
w i f e h a d f o r h e r husband.

So, I will listen

t o m y c o l l e a g u e s on that.
G o i n g t o Jacqueline Kennedy, although
r e v e r s e n u m b e r two is a good attempt at
l i k e n e s s , I ’ m a fraid the darkness that’s
p r e s e n t e d h e r e in the shading is a little
confusing.

I t hink this captured her but not

a s w e l l a s o b v e rse number eight.

I just don’t

h a v e a n y c o m p l a ints about this.
C o n g r a t u l a t i o n s to the artist who presented
this.
A s f o r reverse number one, I think
t h i s i s a b s o l u t ely stunning and powerful.

I

w o u l d l i k e t o s ee more reverses on the Spouse
d e s i g n s l i k e t h is, where it’s one icon, one or
two.

I ’ m n o t e ven going to address number

five.
L a d y B i rd Johnson, I believe number
f i v e i s t h e m o s t like her, that I remember her
this way.

S h e ’ s positive.

She has a stunning

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

62
n o s e , a n d I t h i nk this artist really addressed
t h a t w i t h h e r s mile.

Number three is not

q u i t e - - n u m b e r five is much more powerful.
O n t h e reverse, I’m going to go with
number three.

It is again a good design.

The

a r t i s t h a s s t e p ped out of the bounds of being
j u s t t o o r e p r e s entative, giving too much
information.
I t h i n k number one is good but number
t h r e e , I t h i n k , gives us a better idea of what
s h e d i d f o r A m e rica, all the way across
A m e r i c a , y o u k n ow, working with the highway
system.

T h i s i s something that was very

i n n o v a t i v e a t t he time.
number three.

I’m going to go with

Thank you.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . U R A M:

Tom?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

A s f a r a s s o m e of the comments that have been
m a d e , I p r e t t y much agree with all of the
thoughts here.
O n B e s s Truman, once again, numbers
t w o a n d t h r e e , I kind of like number two a

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

63
l i t t l e b i t , i t ’ s a little bit more recessed
t h a n n u m b e r t h r ee, so I’m leaning that way.
O n t h e reverse, I think symbolism is
a p p r o p r i a t e s o m etimes and sometimes it isn’t.
W h a t I d o i n t h is case is I think about the
c o l l e c t o r g r o u p that collects particularly
t h e s e n u m i s m a t i c items, and I think they get
it.

T h e r e f o r e , number two, I think, really is

a n i c e p r o j e c t i on of that.
I t h i n k this collector group
a p p r e c i a t e s s o m e more of the symbolism than
w o u l d a n o r m a l circulating type coin and so
forth.

I t h i n k this is a great approach, once

a g a i n , t o c o m b i ning those two with the obverse
and the reverse.
O f c o u r se, the Eisenhower obverse
f i v e , a n d o n c e again, I echo for the reverse.
I ’ l l t e l l y o u , I’ve been to the Gettysburg
h o m e , a n d I w o u ld have liked number six if it
w a s n ’ t f o r t h e wording, and I would have
a c c e p t e d i t , b u t I wish something could have
b e e n d o n e w i t h the homestead.

I think it

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

64
w o u l d h a v e b e e n appropriate.

That design was

n o t , i n m y o p i n ion.
S o , I l ean by default, as many of my
c o l l e a g u e s h a v e kind of defaulted, to three
and four.

I t h ink I’m kind of going more

t o w a r d s f o u r t h an I am three.

Once again,

w i t h t h e s u g g e s tion of the arm, a little bit
o f a n a d j u s t m e n t there.
M o v i n g right along to the Kennedy
o b v e r s e , I , t o o , like number two and number
eight.

I l e a n towards number eight a little

b i t m o r e i n t h e fact that it does look more
p r o g r e s s i v e , i t does look more modern and
idealistic.

I really like that obverse.

T h e r e v erse, once again we’re going
b a c k t o s o m e s y mbolism here.

As much as I

w o u l d l i k e t o e mphasize the arts as it relates
t o M r s . K e n n e d y there, I think I’m going to
h a v e t o g o w i t h number one for the symbolism.
I t h i n k t h a t i s going to really be
d i s t i n g u i s h e d , and the person who purchases
t h i s p a r t i c u l a r coin will be able to

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

65
understand it.
I a g r e e that number five, as much as I
w o u l d l i k e t o s ee something happen there, it
w a s n ’ t m a y b e t h e right description of the
a r t i s t i c d i s p l a y.
S o , I ’ m going to go with number one.
M o v i n g along to Johnson, I feel it
w o u l d b e b e t w e e n number two and number seven.
N u m b e r t w o , I l ike how her portrait is tilted
s o m e w h a t a n d b e ing kind of an inquisitive look
t o h e r a p p r o a c h there, the way she is looking
o u t o f t h e s i d e of her eye, in the juxtative
position there.

I think it’s a little bit

b e t t e r t h a n s o m e of the forward.
W e h a v e a lot of the First Spouses
t h a t a r e f o r w a r d on looking, and we have
discussed that.

I kind of lean towards number

t w o o v e r n u m b e r seven for that reason, but
n u m b e r s e v e n , o nce again, I think is a
d i s t i n g u i s h e d l ooking and appropriate profile,
j u s t a l i t t l e b it different.

If you put

n u m b e r s e v e n u p there, more straight on and so

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

66
forth.

I t h i n k number two gives a little bit

m o r e o f a n i n q u isitive approach.
T h e r e v erse, I think number seven
a g a i n i s g r e a t , but once again, I think it is
g o i n g t o a l l o w for a little too much
i n t e r p r e t a t i o n or maybe nothing interpreted.
I d o l i k e n u m b e r three and what has been said.
I t h i n k i t h a s a lot there to say.

I think

t h a t i s v e r y i n teresting.
I a l s o fall to number one as well.
I ’ m p r o b a b l y l e aning more towards number one
t h a n I a m n u m b e r three.

Maybe the reasoning

i s I h a v e a l r e a dy used several reverses that
a r e s y m b o l i c ; t herefore, I would like to have
s o m e t h i n g t h a t has some words.
I t h i n k this is a good place to not
o n l y h a v e t h e M onument and what it says; it
a c t u a l l y s a y s h er mission and so forth.

It

d o e s b r i n g i n t he wreaths and the Monuments
and so forth.

So, I think this is more

s t r a i g h t f o r w a r d , as much as I do like number
t h r e e , I ’ m g o i n g to probably lean a little bit

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

67
m o r e t h e r e s i n c e I’ve given some more thought
a n d c o n s i d e r a t i on to the symbolism of the
other reverses.
T h a n k y ou, Mr. Chairman.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Tom.

Dr.

Viola?
D R . V I O LA:

Thank you.

All right, not

m u c h I c a n a d d to what you have all said.
p r e t t y m u c h a g r ee with everything.

I

I like

n u m b e r t h r e e f o r Bess on the obverse.

The

r e v e r s e , I a t f irst was more taken on with the
h e a d o n t r a i n , but you have all convinced me
t h a t t h e w h e e l is pretty dramatic, so I’m
happy with that.
F o r M a m ie, we all liked number five.
I t h o u g h t i t w a s wonderful.

I would like

e i t h e r n u m b e r t hree or number four, I think
f o u r , m i l i t a r y wives should support their
h u s b a n d s , n o m a tter if they’re the President
o r j u s t a s o l d i er.

I agree that arm has to be

f i x e d a l i t t l e bit, but that will be easy to
do.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

68
J a c k i e Kennedy, I think eight was a
v e r y n i c e p o r t r ait.
with the arts.

She was so much involved

You remember after she left

t h e W h i t e H o u s e , she went into publishing.

I

r e a l l y f e e l t h a t it was nice to have a reverse
t h a t r e f l e c t e d her contributions to the arts.
S h e d i d a l o t i n the White House.
S h e c o n tinued that the rest of her
l i f e , s o s o m e t h ing with literature or art, I
d o t h i n k t h i s o ne looks a little bit
- - I d o n ’ t w a n t to say cartoonish, but I don’t
t h i n k i t ’ s v e r y attractive.
A g a i n , I like number two and number
s e v e n f o r L a d y Bird.

I think I prefer seven.

I r e a l l y l i k e n umber one on the reverse.

I’d

s a y I w i l l s t i c k with that, and that’s about
it.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you.

I’ll go

to Donald.
M R . S C A RINCI:

It’s always very

d i f f i c u l t t h e f irst time, you know, shuffling
t h e p i c t u r e s b a ck and forth.

It takes years

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

69
b e f o r e y o u d e v e lop your method of keeping this
a l l s t r a i g h t w h en we’re considering so many
designs.

S o , y ou can watch me fumble after

a l l t h e s e y e a r s as well.
F i r s t , on Bess Truman, I am persuaded
by Erik.

I l i k ed number two.

Erik is right.

N u m b e r t h r e e i s how Bess Truman would have
w a n t e d h e r s e l f depicted; it’s the portrait
that she liked.

So, I actually after

l i s t e n i n g , I ’ m persuaded to go with number
t h r e e f o r t h e o bverse design of Bess Truman.
T h e r e v erse to me really is a no
brainer.

I w a n t to say something nice about

n u m b e r s i x j u s t to say something nice because
w e a r e a s k i n g f or contemporary depictions of
L i b e r t y , a n d y o u’re delivering that.

I want

t o j u s t m a k e t h at point, you know, keep doing
w h a t y o u ’ r e d o i ng.
H o w e v e r , I just love -- there’s a coin
t h a t I b e l i e v e was one of the nominees for
M o s t A r t i s t i c C oin by Krause last year that
h a d t h e p r o p e l l er of a plane.

I love this;

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

70
t h i s r e a l l y s a y s what you need to say by
f o c u s i n g i n o n some interesting design.
I t ’ s e x actly what we are asking for.
I t h i n k G a r y s a id that and I and others have
s a i d t h a t a s w e ll.

I completely agree, this

i s w h a t w e a r e looking for you to do, and when
w e a r e t a l k i n g about coming up with new and
m o d e r n w a y s o f communicating on a very small
m e t a l l i c c a n v a s , this communicates that.

I’m

a b s o l u t e l y g i v i ng reverse number two a full
three.
G o i n g t o Mamie Eisenhower, I’m kind of
I g u e s s i n a w a y delighted that I don’t have a
l i v i n g r e c o l l e c tion of Mamie Eisenhower.
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . S C A RINCI:

I’m really pleased

a b o u t t h a t , a s I sit here and listen.

I

a g r e e , o b v i o u s l y, number five was a no
brainer.

E v e r y one agreed to that.

The

r e v e r s e , t h e r e ason I think number three says
i t a l l i s b e c a u se just about in every history
b o o k , d e l i g h t e d to say that I read it in a

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

71
h i s t o r y b o o k , “ I Like Ike” is actually -w h e t h e r i t ’ s a political science class or a
h i s t o r y c l a s s - - “I Like Ike” worked.

It was

p r o b a b l y o n e o f the most commonly used
e x a m p l e s o f a g ood campaign button, campaign
slogan.
I l o v e the idea.

I love what you did

w i t h n u m b e r t h r ee, reverse number three for
this.

T o m e , i t’s absolutely the way to go.
W i t h n u mber four, we got a lot of

h a n d s g o i n g o n in this series, I don’t really
s e e g o i n g w i t h any more hands.

The hand

h o l d i n g o f t h e campaign button is great.

I

c o u l d h a v e l i v e d with just -- if I saw a
d e s i g n t h a t j u s t had the campaign button, I’d
be more excited.
Y o u k n o w, I could live without the
h a n d , b u t I l i k e the campaign button, so I’m
g o i n g t o g o w i t h three and I’m not going to be
t e m p t e d t o d e s i gn by Committee and suggest you
g i v e u s j u s t t h e button.

In the old days, we

p r o b a b l y w o u l d have done that.

In the new

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

72
d a y s , w e d o n ’ t do that.
Y o u k n o w, in the obverse of the Jackie
K e n n e d y p o r t r a i t, I know probably other people
t h o u g h t i t a n d just didn’t say it but number
f i v e , a n d I t h i nk clearly the artist’s
i n t e n t i o n w i t h number five was to give us the
P a u l M a n s h i p I n augural Medal of JFK.
Y o u k n o w, it’s obviously one of the
f e w p i e c e s o f s culpture you can affordably own
by Paul Manship.

I hate to use the word

“ i c o n i c ” f o r a n inaugural medal, but it is a
v e r y i m p o r t a n t piece.

Danny Altshuler, when

h e d i d t h e O b a m a Inaugural Medal that was
rejected.

H e u sed this technique to create

t h a t K e n n e d y -i s h atmosphere that was at the
b e g i n n i n g o f O b ama.

I don’t think they got it

e i t h e r , b u t t h e y didn’t select that design.
get that.
I t h i n k there are a million images of
J a c k i e K e n n e d y in the world.
remember.

This one, I do

I w a s around for this one.

remember Jackie.

I do

She’s probably one of the

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

I

Capital Reporting Company

73
m o s t p h o t o g r a p h ed First Ladies ever.

I think

t h e r e a r e e n o u g h pictures of her that we can
s e e h e r i n p i c t ures, we can see her in videos,
w e c a n s e e w h a t she looked like.
T h a t ’ s why I think making it more
s p e c i a l b y s e l e cting number five on the gold
c o i n , a n d s i n c e I’m one of the 2,000
c o l l e c t o r s o f t his series, because there is
n o t m o r e t h a n a bout 2,000 collectors of this
s e r i e s , I ’ m o n e of them, I have every single
one of them.

E rik is one as well.

So, two of

t h e 2 , 0 0 0 a r e h ere, so there is market share
i n t h i s r o o m o n this series.
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . J A N SEN:
M R . S C A RINCI:

One -tenth of a percent.
So, I love this series.

I j u s t t h i n k t h is is just one of those under
rated series.

People will eventually figure

that out.
I l i k e what number five does, and I
a p p r e c i a t e t h e artist’s creativity on this, to
envision that.

It’s clearly what the artist

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

74
did.
I n t h e reverse, on this one, I thought
i t w a s a n o b r a iner.

Number one is exactly

t h e k i n d o f t h i ng we’re asking for.

I don’t

w a n t t o w r i t e o ff number five as cartoonish or
w h a t e v e r p e o p l e said about it because it is
s o m e t h i n g t h a t gets an honorable merit in my
m i n d , b u t n u m b e r one in this case absolutely,
I d i d n ’ t e v e n h ave to think hard about it.
T h e n e x t for Johnson, I can’t imagine
t h e C o m m i s s i o n of Fine Arts like doing one of
t h o s e g a m e s w h e re you replace the face with
t h e h a i r a n d t h e hair with the face, the eyes
w i t h t h e n o s e , you know, movable faces.

I

t h i n k d e s i g n b y Committee is just evil.

I

p e r s o n a l l y l i k e six.

I think six as a

p o r t r a i t i s a v ery nice portrait on the
obverse.
O n t h e reverse, I’m just so happy
s i t t i n g h e r e t h at so many of us are in sync
w i t h s e e i n g t h e beauty of reverse number
three.

T h e o n l y thing I could have even

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

75
r e m o t e l y h a v e a sked for more of is the road go
t o t h e e n d o f t he coin, but I’m delighted.
N u m b e r t h r e e i s what you want to see.
I t h i n k more of this kind of thing in
the future.

I think this is very creative.

t h i n k t h i s i s a work of art.

I

Overall with

t h e s e d e s i g n s o n a series, I can only say the
a r t i s t s a r e l i s tening.

You’re listening.

a r e g i v i n g u s w hat we are asking for.

You

I think

t h e s e l a t e s t g r ouping’s in this particular
s e r i e s a r e g r e a t, what has just come out, it’s
v e r y w e l l s t r u c k, very well manufactured.
T h e s e a r e g r e a t designs.

Kudo’s to the

a r t i s t s w i t h w h at you have done with this.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Donald.

Robert?
M R . H O G E:

Thank you, Gary.

I have to

e c h o t h e c o m m e n ts of all my learned
p r e d e c e s s o r s h e re.

I have to concur with

a l m o s t e v e r y t h i ng everyone else has said.
I p r e f e r number three of the Bess
Truman obverses.

The reverses, I didn’t

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

76
r e a l l y c a r e f o r any of them.

I’m not going to

w o r r y a b o u t t h a t.
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . H O GE:

On Mamie Eisenhower, I

s t r o n g l y f a v o r number five, just as everyone
else has.

F o r the reverses, number three

s e e m e d o k a y t o me.

It’s a little bit too

l i t t l e f o r a l a rge scale design or even a
coin.

S o m e t h i n g about it I don’t care for in

t e r m s o f t h e f l atness.
D e f i n i t ely number four would be my
p r e f e r e n c e b u t even here, I don’t like it as
m u c h a s I m i g h t have.

It’s really because of

w h a t h a s a l r e a d y been said, use of the hands
over and over.

I like seeing the airplane and

t h e w o r l d a n d t he five stars, of course.

Not

a s t r o n g p r e f e r ence.
F o r J a c queline Kennedy, I recall
s e e i n g h e r l o o k ing like number eight.

I think

i t ’ s a n a t t r a c t ive image.
F o r t h e reverses, again, it’s somewhat
difficult.

I w ould have to go with number one

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

77
a s m y f a v o r i t e among these.

I think what we

n e e d t o s e e o n the reverse of a First
L a d y / F i r s t S p o u se coin is something that kind
o f c a p t u r e s a n essence of the person in one
way or another.

I’m not sure all of these do

that.
I t h i n k this one does well, putting
b e a u t y a n d c o m m unication with the world.

Sort

o f w h a t y o u m i g ht want to think is Jackie.
F o r t h e Lady Bird portraits, several
o f t h e s e w e r e p retty good. To me, number five,
i f I r e c a l l c o r rectly, it’s sort of how I
w o u l d i m a g i n e h er appearance more frequently
t h a n t h e o t h e r images.
F o r t h e reverses, I definitely do
f a v o r n u m b e r e i ght.

This is the Blue Bell

F l o w e r o f T e x a s , and that’s what she was.
was a Texan.

She

S ome of the other designs are

n o t n e c e s s a r i l y bad in any way.

I don’t care

a s m u c h f o r t h e design on reverse three as
s o m e o f m y c o l l eagues here, although it is an
a t t r a c t i v e r e p r esentation.

I get a little bit

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

78
t i r e d o f s e e i n g these horizons and artificial
s u n r i s e s a n d t h ings like this.

The road, it

i s k i n d o f a c a rtoonish thing.
A t a n y rate, those are my choices.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay.

Go ahead,

Michael.
D R . B U G EJA:

I’d like to take a look

a t o b v e r s e n u m b er three of Bess Truman.
t h i n k t h i s i s b y far my favorite.
g o t o t h e r e v e r ses now.

I

I’d like to

I would like to talk

b r i e f l y a b o u t t wo, three, and six.

Let’s go

t o n u m b e r t w o f irst, which many people have
complimented.
I l i k e it, too, but in my discussion
o f t h e s e d e s i g n s, I’m going to hit on four
a r t i s t i c p o i n t s because I think even the best
d e s i g n s c a n b e improved, and some others that
C F A h a s c h o s e n have me baffled.
N u m b e r one, I’m going to talk about
d e p t h a n d b o r d e rs.

Number two, I’m going to

t a l k a b o u t p l a c ement of mottos.

Three, about

t h e i c o n o g r a p h y and what that suggests, and

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

79
f o u r , a b o u t c o m peting devices.
N o w , t h is particular design can be
i m p r o v e d i f t h e whistle stop campaign somehow
w a s w o r k e d i n t o the wheel.

You see there are

t h r e e f r a m e s t h ere on the top, and the two
d e v i c e s a r e c o m peting with each other.
W h a t I see our artists doing is they
a r e f o r g e t t i n g to incorporate motto’s as part
of the design.
again.

I see this over and over

T h e y t r eat them as they are distinct

a n d C o n g r e s s i s going to have a bill against
t h e m i f t h e y d o n’t showcase it.

That’s one

t h i n g I w a n t e d to show there.
I w a n t to go to number three, in case
this is chosen.

Again, we have two competing

m o t t o ’ s , t h e l e gend, “United States of
A m e r i c a ” a n d “ W histle Stop Campaign,” and then
w e h a v e “ 1 9 4 8 ” as if it’s the date of the
coin.

I t i s n o t the date of the coin.

That

w h o l e s p a c e a l l ows us to put “1948 Whistle
Stop

C a m p a i g n ” into that circle where that

train is.

A t r ain coming at you is nice, but

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

80
i f t h e d e p t h o f field were risen a little bit
s o t h a t t h e t r a in looks like it is coming over
y o u , y o u w o u l d have a more dramatic picture,
j u s t l i f t e d b y ten degrees.
I ’ d l i k e to go to number six.

I know

t h e w o r d “ h o u s e wife” has turned off people
f r o m t h i s d e s i g n, but if the “Housewife’s
P l e d g e ” w e r e c h anged to accurately “Food
R a t i o n P l e d g e , ” then suddenly we have a very
i c o n i c a c t u a l l y Midwestern symbol of
a b u n d a n c e , a n d with the ration pledge, it’s
q u i t e a b e a u t i f ul design.
I d o n ’ t think it’s going to gather
e n o u g h v o t e s h e re to become it, but I wanted
t o p o i n t o u t t h at’s the power of a device,
t h a t ’ s t h e p o w e r of a symbol.

You see

“ h o u s e w i f e ” a n d you are immediately getting
rid of it.

T h e historic thing is “Food Ration

P l e d g e , ” a n d t h at’s what it should be, so
d o n ’ t l e t a m o t to, an artist’s motto
p a r t i c u l a r l y , h inder you.

In fact, if the

a r t i s t h a d s u b m itted this with “Food Ration

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

81
P l e d g e , ” I w o n d er whether it would have gotten
more votes.
N o w , M a mie Eisenhower number five is
fine.

I w a n t t o speak to number five of the

r e v e r s e - - n u m b er four of the reverse.
sorry.

I’m

M a m i e D oud was born 15 miles from my

h o u s e i n B o o n e , Iowa.

There’s a Mamie Doud

M u s e u m i n B o o n e , Iowa right near the little
t r a i n s t a t i o n t hey have.
T h e o n e thing that you get from
k n o w i n g a b o u t M amie Doud is how much she loved
h e r h u s b a n d a n d what a strong marriage that
was.

“ I L i k e M amie” suggests that she was

c o m p e t i n g , e v e n though contemporary times, she
w a s b e l o v e d a n d somebody came up with a
b u t t o n , b u t t h e y were never in competition.
T h e y w e r e a t r u e partnership.
E v e n t h ough the hands have been done
b e f o r e , i t ’ s t h e only one of these designs
t h a t a c t u a l l y s ymbolized their love, which is
w h y I l i k e t h i s one over the other.
I ’ d l i k e to go to Jackie Kennedy

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

82
number five.

W hen you’re working with

p r o f i l e s w h i c h the CFA tends to like better
t h a n t h e C C A C , it is incredibly important not
t o p u t a m o t t o as if it’s a text balloon
c o m i n g f r o m t h e mouth, and to have Jackie
s a y i n g “ I n G o d We Trust” is a little -- if you
w o r k e d w i t h m o t to’s, and there’s no reason why
“ L i b e r t y ” h a s t o be on the right and “In God
W e T r u s t ” o n t h e left.
T h a t ’ s been uniform here.

I’ve told

t h e a r t i s t s s i n ce I’ve been on this Committee,
p l a y w i t h y o u r motto’s, stack them, as they
d i d i n t h e s i l v er commemoratives.
I f y o u take this picture and you put
“ L i b e r t y , ” s m a l ler underneath the chin and
t h e n “ I n G o d W e Trust,” and you get an
o b s t a c l e l i n e o f sight from the left right
t h r o u g h , t h e n i t becomes a more attractive
design.

M y f a v orite, however, is number

eight.
I ’ d l i k e to go to the reverses.
g o t o r e v e r s e n umber one, which is my

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Let’s

Capital Reporting Company

83
preference.
design.

I t ’s gorgeous.

It’s a gorgeous

Y o u d o n’t have to know the specifics

of this design.

I would disagree with the

s p e c i f i c s a s i t was described to us.
W h a t t h is represents is that
J a c q u e l i n e K e n n edy was beloved around the
world.

T h a t ’ s what it is suggesting.

In

o t h e r w o r d s , p a y less attention to the history
o f t h e s e i m a g e s and more attention to what
t h o s e i m a g e s s y mbolize.

That is the

iconography.
I f y o u take a look at one of the worse
d e s i g n s I h a v e seen since being on this
C o m m i t t e e , n u m b er five.

This is Clip Art.

I

w a n t t o b a c k t h is up, not just by saying it’s
C l i p A r t a n d o n e of the worse designs, take a
look at that.
field.

There is absolutely no depth of

I t ’ s j u st like a page of Clip Art.
N o w , i f you want to be an artist, take

a l o o k a t t h e m usical symbol there and can
t h a t b e w o r k e d into the faces, which come to
u s 6 0 0 y e a r s b e fore Christ from Dionysus in

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

84
G r e e c e , a n d s h e was married to a Greek
s h i p p i n g m a g n a t e.

That is what I see when I

t a k e a l o o k a t that.
T h e o t h er thing is if this is art, why
n o t t a k e t h a t p allet, blow it up, and then in
t h e f i r s t , h a v e the mask of comedy and the
s e c o n d , y o u c o u ld have a symbol of the mask of
t r a g e d y , a n d t h e third, put the music clef,
a n d t h e f o u r t h , you could put notes.
N o w , I ’ m not advocating for that, but
t h a t ’ s a r t a n d not Clip Art.

I want to make

t h a t p o i n t a b u n dantly clear.

I’ve seen Clip

A r t i n o t h e r d e signs in here before.
I ’ m g o i ng to go to Lady Bird.
p r e f e r e n c e i s g oing to be for seven.
p e o p l e l i k e f i v e.
to me.

My
I know

Five looks like Pat Nixon

I t l o o k s a little like Pat Nixon.

h a i r i s b r u n e t t e, but other than that.

The

I’m

g o i n g w i t h s e v e n.
I n t e r m s of the reverses, my favorite
i s a c l o s e b e t w een one and eight, but as there
i s g o i n g t o b e votes for number three, I’d

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

85
l i k e t o t a l k t o number three.
H e r e ’ s a good design that can be
i m p r o v e d b y r e m embering that the devices and
r e q u i r e m e n t s o f a coin can be violated any
t i m e y o u w a n t , and that truck, for instance -f i r s t o f a l l , I ’d push the truck back a little
s o i t d o e s n ’ t t ake too much of the highway,
a n d t h e n I ’ d h a ve part of that truck actually
o v e r t h a t f r a m e or under it, and the car is
a l r e a d y o v e r i t , just to add a little bit more
d e p t h o f f i e l d in that.
I d o l i ke how on the bottom we have
s o m e o f t h a t s h adowing and depth of field, and
w i t h f r o s t i n g , this could actually be quite a
nice design.
B u t i t is important for us to remember
t h e v a r i o u s a r t istic concepts that make our
coins beautiful.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Michael.

I ’ l l g o t o M a r y now.
M S . L A N NIN:

Okay.

Well, there is

s o m e a d v a n t a g e to being last because all of

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

86
y o u h a v e t r i e d to convince me.
( L a u g h t er.)
M S . L A N NIN:

For Bess Truman, for the

o b v e r s e , I c h o s e number three because I think
m y f r i e n d t o m y right convinced me that was
h e r v i e w o f h e r self.

My other choice would

h a v e b e e n n u m b e r four but I thought she looked
a l i t t l e t o o - you’re going to have to stay
a f t e r s c h o o l , y oung lady, kind of stern look
to her.

I t h i n k there should be a softer

aspect to her.
F o r t h e reverse, I kind of flip
flopped on this.

I think I would go with

r e v e r s e n u m b e r two.

I think graphically,

a r t i s t i c a l l y , t hat is really powerful.

The

w h i s t l e s t o p c a mpaign, it’s an interesting
c o n c e p t , a n d a s Mike said, it could actually
b e w o r k e d i n t o the wheels.
N u m b e r three, I believe was the choice
of the CFA.

I kind of like 1948, it’s the

year I was born.

What can I say?

h a v e t h e b u n t i n g there.

I would

To me, it’s the

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

87
f o r w a r d m o m e n t u m of the train; it’s coming in
t o s h o w a l l t h e wonderful things that the
U n i t e d S t a t e s i s going to do after the war.

I

t h i n k i t i s r e a lly powerful.
N u m b e r five for Mamie, we have all
d e c i d e d f o r t h a t obverse.
o f M a m i e E i s e n h ower.

That is my memory

For the reverse for

M a m i e , I d i d l i ke number three.

Can the

b u t t o n b e m a d e bigger and the hands slightly
smaller?

I d o n ’t want to miss that.
I k e w a s the first president that I

r e m e m b e r s e e i n g on television.

I think we all

m a y b e w e r e g e t t ing TVs in the 1950s.

I

r e m e m b e r s e e i n g him sitting in the back of a
c o n v e r t i b l e w i t h Mamie, you know, waving.

The

f a c t t h a t p e o p l e liked her as well as Ike, I
d o l i k e t h i s b u tton, and I’d like it a little
bit larger.

I think just putting it on a

l a p e l ; s o m e b o d y may not understand it’s on a
lapel.
J a c k i e Kennedy.
J a c k i e l o o k s l i ke to me.

Number eight is what
She was beautiful.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

88
S h e w a s g r a c i o u s.
questioning.

She was welcoming.

S he was intelligent.

t h o s e t h i n g s i n this.

She was

I see all

I compliment whichever

a r t i s t d i d t h a t because to me, she was really
captured.
A r t i s t i cally, for the reverse for
J a c k i e , I h a v e to go with number one, although
f i v e , I w a n t e d it to be better.

I think of

J a c k i e K e n n e d y , and I think of the arts in
America.

A g a i n , what everybody has said about

C l i p A r t I t h i n k is true for this.
G r a p h i c a l l y a n d artistically, number one has
my vote.
F o r L a d y Bird, number three, if you do
t a k e a w a y t h e h air, I do agree with what the
C F A s a i d t h a t t o me was Lady Bird.

The very

d a r k e y e b r o w s , the sort of thin, pointed nose,
the smile.

T h e hair I remember of Lady Bird

i s t h e h a i r o f number five.

If the artist

c o u l d w o r k a l i ttle bit on the hair.
F o r t h e reverse, I tend to go with
number one.

I realize that is a little

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

89
t r a d i t i o n a l c h o ice, followed by the reverse of
number three.
I w o u l d like to say something.

Maybe

I w o u l d h a v e t o kind of look at more pictures
o f o u r s p o u s e s , did they all share one set of
pearls?
( L a u g h t er.)
M S . L A N NIN:

Every single woman has on

a p e a r l n e c k l a c e.
M R . J A N SEN:

I think Jackie has three.

M S . L A N NIN:

Jackie has three, and she

a c t u a l l y d i d w e ar them, but everyone else, it
l o o k s l i k e t h e y all borrowed from the same
jewelry box.

E nough said.

M R . J A N SEN:

They never go out of

M S . L A N NIN:

They never go out of

style.

style.

Y o u ’ r e right.
M R . M O R AN:

Gary, before we go to a

v o t e , c a n I i n t erject questions about Jackie
Kennedy?
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Yes, let me thank

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

90
Mary first.
M R . M O R AN:

I’m sorry.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M S . L A N NIN:

You’re welcome, Gary.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . M O R AN:

Thank you, Mary.

Michael?

First of all, I think we

h a v e t h e p o t e n t ial with Jackie Kennedy to do a
t r u l y o u t s t a n d i ng coin design.
Edith Roosevelt.

Unfortunately, we dropped

t h e b a l l w i t h E leanor Roosevelt.
better.

We did with

She deserved

Y o u h a ve to work with what you have.
I w a s r eady to go with the railroad

t r a i n o n d e s i g n number eight on the obverse
u n t i l D o n a l d s p oke up about Paul Manship and
t h e i n a u g u r a l m edal of JFK.

I think there is

a s i g n i f i c a n t o pportunity here to do it again,
i f i n d e e d t h a t ’ s where we want to go with it.
I ’ m l o o k i n g f o r reasons why I should change
f r o m e i g h t t o f ive.

I don’t know the

i n a u g u r a l m e d a l that well.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Michael, are you

t a l k i n g a b o u t J ackie Kennedy?

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

91
M R . M O R AN:

Yes.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . M O R AN:

Okay; sorry.

I’m sorry.

g o t a q u e s t i o n for you.

Steve, I’ve

Which one of those

t w o d o y o u t h i n k you can work with and make it
t h e b e s t b e t w e e n five and eight?
M R . E V E RHART:
M R . M O R AN:

This one.

That one?

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . M O R AN:

Is that all, Michael?

That’s it.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
comments.

Okay.

I have two quick

L o o k ing at the Mamie Eisenhower

r e v e r s e w i t h t h e button, look at that real
q u i c k , n u m b e r t hree.
C o m m i t t e e f o r t hat.
leaning towards.

A lot of support on the
It wasn’t one I was

You guys got me all confused

now.
( L a u g h t er.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

If we go with this

o n e , I g u e s s I want to make sure that the “I
Like” shows up.

Here again, we have a

t e n d e n c y t o l o o k at these designs blown up in

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

92
s u p e r -s i z e u n r e alism, because they’re so big.
W h e n y o u p u t t h is down to a coin that’s a
l i t t l e m o r e t h a n an inch, and if that “I Like”
i s s l i g h t a s c o mpared to the “Mamie,” I just
w a n t t o m a k e s u re when that gets sculpted, if
t h i s i s t h e o n e we pick, it has some
d e f i n i t i o n t o i t so it shows up.
M y o t h e r comment has to do with Jackie
Kennedy.

A s i s the case so often, I’ll say

s o m e t h i n g a n d t hen my colleagues say things
a n d I w i s h I c o uld take some of those words
back.
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . J A N SEN:

We’ll get you a mask.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

I think it was Heidi

w h o f i r s t s a i d the dagger words to me “Clip
Art.”
( L a u g h t er.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

I felt it go right

t h r o u g h m y h e a r t on number five.
M i c h a e l , y o u ’ r e right.

She’s right.

You used it, too.

T h e n I s t a r t e d thinking okay, you know what, I

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

93
f e l l i n t o t h i s trap that if I’m looking at
t h e s e a s i n d i v i dual images when we are looking
a t a c o i n w i t h both obverse and reverse, so
w i t h r e s p e c t t o Jackie, who was a beautiful
w o m a n , i t l o o k s like we’re probably going to
g o w i t h n u m b e r eight on the obverse.
I w a n t everyone to imagine number
e i g h t o b v e r s e a nd number one reverse.

It’s a

b e a u t i f u l c o i n , particularly if we make the
o c e a n a r e a s t h e polished field.

It’s a

b e a u t i f u l c o i n , and I think it’s very
b e f i t t i n g o f a beautiful First Spouse.
S o , t h o se are just my comments.
M S . S T A FFORD:

Mr. Chairman, if I may

j u s t i n t e r j e c t since we are talking about this
r e v e r s e , o n e o f the members mentioned
s o m e t h i n g w h e n talking about this design, I
t h i n k i f t h i s i s recommended and ultimately
s e l e c t e d , w e c o uld actually add to the design
d e s c r i p t i o n t o reference the arts, that in
s o m e w a y t h i s s ymbolizes her bringing beauty
i n t o t h e w o r l d through her avocation for the

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

94
arts.
I t h i n k we could maybe make reference
t o t h a t p e r h a p s through the design as well,
symbolically.
D R . B U G EJA:
that.

I would like to speak to

W h a t y o u are doing is you’re asking

p e o p l e n o t t o a ssociate those symbols with
w h a t t h e y h a v e come to represent and to force
t h e m t o u n d e r s t and the arts.

I would be

against it.
M S . S T A FFORD:

No, I’m sorry.

Not the

i n s c r i p t i o n , t h e accompanying materials, for
e x a m p l e , o n t h e web page.
D R . B U G EJA:

Oh, that’s fine.

M S . S T A FFORD:

Description; I’m sorry.

U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:

On this

b e a u t i f u l m a s t e rpiece.
M S . S T A FFORD:

No, no.

U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:

Description.
That would be

graffiti.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay.

Go ahead,

Heidi.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

95
M S . W A S TWEET:
comments.

I have two quick

I f w e could go briefly to Lady Bird

J o h n s o n r e v e r s e s.

Number one, as so often

h a p p e n s , w h e n w e look at these packets at
h o m e , w e p i c k a favorite, and then when we get
h e r e a n d w e h e a r what the other members have
t o s a y , w e c h a n ge our minds.

Jeanne swayed me

o n t h i s o n e , o n e versus three.
W h i l e I was waffling between these
t w o , s h e h a d a great point.

Number three

s h o w s h e r i n f l u ence across the country,
w h e r e a s d e s i g n number one is so iconic of
W a s h i n g t o n , D . C ., I think it is limiting to
h e r i n f l u e n c e , and number three symbolizes the
b r e a d t h o f h e r influence.

So, I am changing

m y s u p p o r t a n d leaning towards three, which
b r i n g s m e t o m y second point.
I w a n t to remind and inform about our
v o t i n g s y s t e m h ere.

We vote on each design

a n d w e g i v e i t a score of one to three based
on merit.

I t ’ s not a ranking of first,

s e c o n d , a n d t h i rd but rather a merit score of

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

96
o n e , t w o , o r t h ree.
e x c e l l e n t d e s i g n.

Three being a very
One being a minimally

a c c e p t a b l e d e s i gn.

Zero being I didn’t like

it at all.
W e c a n give any score to any design.
W e d o n ’ t h a v e t o give a three to our favorite
d e s i g n i f i t d o esn’t meet the standards of an
e x c e l l e n t d e s i g n.

I want us to save those

t h r e e ’ s f o r t h e very best designs.
W e a l s o have a minimum score that each
d e s i g n h a s t o m eet at 50 percent of the
p o s s i b l e s c o r e in order to be an official
recommendation.

In this way, it is our method

o f c o m m u n i c a t i n g those best designs and not
j u s t t h e b e s t o f a particular group.
I e n c o u rage and remind members not to
v o t e t o o e a r l y , not write your scores on your
s h e e t s t o o e a r l y until you have heard other
p e o p l e s p e a k b e cause often times other members
w i t h t h e i r v a s t array of experiences and
c o m i n g a t t h i s from different angles will have
p o i n t s t h a t w e hadn’t thought of at home, and

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

97
t h i s m e t h o d , I think, really works well of
c h o o s i n g t h e b e st designs.
C H A I R M AN MARKS:

Thank you, Heidi.

At

t h i s t i m e , I ’ m going to ask the members to go
a h e a d a n d v o t e on the first four spouses that
w e h a v e c o n s i d e red here.

Dr. Viola, has the

v o t i n g p r o c e s s been explained adequately at
t h i s p o i n t f o r you?
D R . V I O LA:

In the sense that three is

the best.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

You’re free to vote

z e r o o n e v e r y t h ing or three on everything or
s o m e t h i n g i n b e tween.

It’s a test of

i n t e n s i t y , h o w intense you are in your
p r e f e r e n c e s f o r any given design.

If you go

a h e a d a n d v o t e on those, we have one hour to
c o m p l e t e t h i s F irst Spouse review, and we have
t w o m o r e F i r s t Spouses to go through.
( M e m b e r s voting.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

April, are you ready

to begin 2016?
M S . S T A FFORD:

Yes.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

98
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Why don’t you go

a h e a d a n d g i v e us the benefit of your report?
M S . S T A FFORD:

Okay.

For 2016, we’ll

s t a r t w i t h t h e Patricia Nixon obverse
c a n d i d a t e d e s i g ns.

Patricia and Richard Nixon

w e r e m a r r i e d o n June 21, 1940.

Mrs. Nixon

s e r v e d a s F i r s t Lady from 1969 until her
h u s b a n d ’ s r e s i g nation in 1974.
W e h a v e seven obverse candidate
designs.

O b v e r se one, two, three, four, five.

O b v e r s e f i v e i s the CFA’s recommended obverse.
Six and seven.
M o v i n g on, we have five reverse
c a n d i d a t e d e s i g ns for your consideration.
R e v e r s e o n e f e a tures a directional sign
i n d i c a t i n g t h e names of many of the places
M r s . N i x o n v i s i ted during her time as First
Spouse.

S h e w a s the most traveled First Lady

u n t i l H i l l a r y C linton.
R e v e r s e two commemorates Mrs. Nixon’s
d e d i c a t i o n t o s ervice.

The wheel of the

w h e e l c h a i r r e p r esents her efforts to make the

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

99
W h i t e H o u s e m o r e accessible to everyone.

The

o p e n h a n d r e p r e sents her commitment to
v o l u n t e e r i s m , w hile the globe represents her
d i s t i n c t i o n a s the most traveled First Lady at
the time.
R e v e r s e three symbolizes Mrs. Nixon’s
e f f o r t s t o m a k e the White House more
a c c e s s i b l e t o a ll.

As a note, she is shown

h e r e w e a r i n g p a nts instead of a dress because
s h e w a s t h e f i r st First Lady to wear pants in
public.
T h i s i s also the CFA’s preference
b e c a u s e i t f e a t ures the theme of
accessibility.

However, they suggested

s e v e r a l m o d i f i c ations, particularly to how her
f i g u r e i s r e n d e red here, while also noting the
b a c k g r o u n d n e e d ed to be simplified.
R e v e r s e four depicts the earth with a
t o r c h f e a t u r i n g an olive branch design
r e p r e s e n t i n g M r s. Nixon’s international travel
o n b e h a l f o f t h e United States.

While First

L a d y , s h e v i s i t ed more than 75 countries.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

100
R e v e r s e five features figures standing
h a n d a n d h a n d a round a globe symbolizing Mrs.
N i x o n ’ s e f f o r t s to emphasize the value of the
a v e r a g e A m e r i c a n citizen during her years as
First Lady.

S h e advocated for volunteerism

a r o u n d t h e c o u n try, and promoted this campaign
o n a n i n t e r n a t i onal scale when she personally
v i s i t e d e a r t h q u ake victims in Peru and a
c o m b a t z o n e i n Vietnam.
M o v i n g on to Betty Ford, Betty Ford
m a r r i e d G e r a l d Ford on October 15, 1948.

She

s e r v e d a s F i r s t Lady from 1974 until 1977.

We

h a v e e i g h t o b v e rse candidate designs.
O b v e r s e one, two, which is the CFA’s
r e c o m m e n d e d d e s ign, obverse three, four, five,
s i x , s e v e n , a n d eight.
M o v i n g on to the reverse candidate
d e s i g n s f o r B e t ty Ford, we have seven for your
consideration.

Reverse one shows the Scales

o f J u s t i c e h o l d ing the symbols of male and
f e m a l e a s e q u a l weights, representing equality
b e t w e e n m e n a n d women.

Mrs. Ford was a

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

101
s u p p o r t e r o f s o cial and economic equality, an
a c t i v i s t f o r t h e Equal Rights Amendment.
R e v e r s e three, a spray of oak leaves
w i t h t h r e e a c o r ns representing Mrs. Ford’s
s t r e n g t h w h e n f aced with hard personal
d e c i s i o n s m a d e in the public eye.

The acorns

r e p r e s e n t h e r t hree major contributions to the
N a t i o n ’ s w e l l -b eing and advancement.

She

a d v o c a t e d f o r t reatment of substance abuse and
a d d i c t i o n , r a i s ed breast cancer awareness
f o l l o w i n g h e r d iagnosis, and was a passionate
s u p p o r t e r a n d a ctivist for the Equal Rights
Amendment.
R e v e r s e four features a hand carrying a
c a n d l e w i t h a f lying dove in the background.
T h e i n s c r i p t i o n reads “Leading the Way.”

Mrs.

F o r d s h e d l i g h t on subjects not previously
o p e n l y d i s c u s s e d, such as addiction and breast
cancer.
R e v e r s e five also features a hand
h o l d i n g a c a n d l e with the inscription
“ S h e d d i n g L i g h t .”

Mrs. Ford led the way to a

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

102
m o r e o p e n a n d h onest discussion about
s u b s t a n c e a b u s e and breast cancer.
R e v e r s e six, the CFA’s recommended
d e s i g n ; h e r e a lighthouse shines a light in
t h e d a r k n e s s w h ile the inscription reads “A
B e a c o n f o r O t h e rs.”

Mrs. Ford was a beacon of

o p e n n e s s a n d h o nesty for all as she worked to
i m p r o v e t h e N a t ion’s attitude in education
r e g a r d i n g t r e a t ment of chemical dependency,
b r e a s t c a n c e r , and equal rights for all.
I w o u l d note again as this was the
C F A ’ s r e c o m m e n d ed design, they suggested that
t h e i n s c r i p t i o n be changed to “Shedding
Light.”
R e v e r s e seven features a stylized
c a d u c e u s w i t h a microphone in place of the
rod.

M r s . F o r d used her position as First

L a d y t o e n g a g e in a public discussion of
m e d i c a l i s s u e s relevant to women.
R e v e r s e eight, a young woman ascends a
s p i r a l s t a i r c a s e representing Mrs. Ford’s
l e g a c y o f i n s p i ring others to achieve recovery

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

103
f r o m a d d i c t i o n through her example of openness
a n d p e r s o n a l v i ctory.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, April.

At

t h i s p o i n t , w e will go through our culling
p r o c e s s f o l l o w e d by technical questions.

If

w e a r e r e a d y f o r that, if we are ready for
obverses.

H e r e again, let’s be careful on

w h i c h o n e s w e m ove forward to focus on.

We

w a n t t o b e a b l e to have the time we need to
l o o k a t t h e d e s igns that are most appropriate.
B e t t y F ord obverse number one.
excuse me.

Nixon,

P a t ricia Nixon, number one.

Interest?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
aside.

Setting that one

N u m b e r two?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

aside.

Setting that one

N u m b e r three?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

No interest in three.

Number four?

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

104
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Four is in.

Number

five?
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number six?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting six aside.

Number seven?
( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
obverses.

That does it for the

G o i n g on to the reverses, number

one?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting one aside.

Number two?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
also.

Setting that one aside

N u m b e r t hree?
M R . U R A M:

That is the CFA’s choice.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
choice; correct.

That is the CFA’s

Is there interest in this

one?

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

105
( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number four?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number five?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay.

g o i n g t o g o t o Betty Ford.

Now we are

Obverse number

one?
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number two?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number three?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

No on three.

Number

four?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

No on four.

Number

No on five.

Number

five?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
six?
( N o r e s ponse.)

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

106
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

No on six.

Number

seven?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting seven aside.

Number eight?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
aside.

Setting that one

W e e n d e d up with two for the obverse.

G o i n g o n t o t h e Betty Ford reverses, number
one?
( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number three?

What

happened to two?
U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:
M S . S T A FFORD:

There is no two.

I should have explained.

T h e r e m a y b e b r eaks in the numbering of some
o f t h e s e p o r t f o lio’s because some designs were
r e m o v e d l a t e r i n the design development
process.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M S . S T A FFORD:

I knew that.
Sorry, I apologize for

n o t m e n t i o n i n g it.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

107
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
u p o n t h a t f a s t er.

I should have picked

Number three?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Three is in.

Number

four?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting four aside.

Number five?
( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
half deaf.

Speak up, folks.

I’m

Six?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Seven?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
aside.

We’re setting that one

N u m b e r eight?
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
M R . U R A M:

I’d like to recommend

o b v e r s e s e v e n o n Betty Ford.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

You’d like to put that

into the mix?
M R . U R A M:

Please.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

108
C H A I R M AN MARKS:

Just a moment.

h a v e m o r e i n t h is set, folks.

We

The designs for

o u r f o c u s a r e f or Patricia Nixon, obverse
f o u r , o b v e r s e f ive, and seven.
f o r P a t r i c i a N i xon.

Three obverses

For reverses, I have

r e v e r s e t h r e e , four, and five.

Three reverse

d e s i g n s f o r N i x on.
O n t h e Betty Ford obverses, we have
n u m b e r o n e , n u m ber two, and number seven.
T h r e e d e s i g n s f or obverse.

On the reverse

d e s i g n s f o r B e t ty Ford, we have number one,
n u m b e r t h r e e , n umber five, six, and eight.
A r e t h e re any technical questions about
a n y o f t h e s e d e signs that we have decided to
focus on?

I f y ou have those, please speak up

n o w a n d a d d r e s s the staff.
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Hearing none, at this

p o i n t I w o u l d l ike to recognize Mary Lannin to
b e g i n o u r c o n v e rsation, and after her we will
b e m o v i n g t o t h e left, over to Michael Bugeja.
M S . L A N NIN:

For Patricia Nixon, I

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

109
b e l i e v e I c h o s e number five because that is my
v i s i o n o f P a t N ixon.

That’s what I think of.

S h e l o o k s a l i t tle happier.

She never really

l o o k e d t o t a l l y happy in pictures.
s l i g h t l y h a p p i e r here.

She looks

There is the

o b l i g a t o r y p e a r ls.
F o r t h e reverse for Patricia Nixon, I
l i k e d f i v e b e c a use I thought graphically and
a r t i s t i c a l l y , i t would be very interesting.
T h a t w a s m y o n l y choice for that one.
B e t t y F ord, I think number one because
t h a t i s m y m e n t al vision of what Betty Ford
l o o k e d l i k e w i t h the pearl earrings, and for
t h e r e v e r s e , I picked number six with the
s u g g e s t i o n t h a t the wording be changed as
A p r i l m e n t i o n e d for “Leading the Way.”

That’s

it.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Mary.

W e ’ l l g o t o M i c hael.
D R . B U G EJA:

Okay.

On Pat Nixon, I’d

l i k e t o t a k e a look at number five and seven.
N u m b e r f i v e i s a forced smile.

I was in

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

110
j o u r n a l i s t i n t he Nixon Administration, and
t h a t i s h e r p u b lic face.
real smile.

Number seven is a

T h at would be my favorite.

She

d e s e r v e s t o h a v e a real smile after what she
endured.
A s f o r the reverse, I think you have a
w o n d e r f u l c o i n design in number four.
i c o n o g r a p h y i s apt.

The

The depth of field is

t e r r i f i c a n d e v en though these are common
a r t i s t i c s y m b o l s, you see at least we have
d e p t h o f f i e l d , and that just really impressed
me.

O n n u m b e r five, it’s a quilt with stick

figures to me.
I ’ d l i k e to go to Betty Ford.

I’m

g o i n g t o a d v o c a te for number seven because in
p u b l i c , t h a t ’ s what I remember of her.
g o o d M i d w e s t e r n face.
it.

It’s a

I think she would love

I t ’ s s o f e tching to me.
G o i n g t o reverses, on number two, I’d

l i k e t o s p e a k b riefly about this.

I guess

t h a t ’ s a n o a k l eaf and I guess it means
s t r e n g t h , s o i f you have to tell what the

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

111
s y m b o l i s , t h e n something is not working and
w e a r e C l i p A r t again.
I ’ d l i k e to go to number six, which to
m e i s m y f a v o r i te.

I’d also like to take a

q u i c k l o o k a t n umber eight which really
i m p r e s s e s m e i n terms of the depth of field
a n d h o w t h a t i s going to pop out of the coin.
I ’ m n o t s u r e p e ople would understand what it
m e a n s b u t I d i d want to compliment the artist
on that.

I ’ m d one.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Michael.

W e w i l l g o t o R obert.
M R . H O G E:

I concur with what my

p r e v i o u s c o l l e a gues have said, and really
d o n ’ t h a v e v e r y much to add.

I kind of like

n u m b e r f i v e o f Pat Nixon with the forced
s m i l e , b e c a u s e I do recall seeing this being a
g o o d l i k e n e s s o f her, forced or not.
F o r t h e reverse, I agree with number
f o u r b e i n g t h e strongest image, although I do
l i k e t h e p a t c h w ork quilt effect of number
five.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

112
F o r B e t ty Ford, I think the best image
i n m y o p i n i o n f or her would probably be number
o n e , i t s e e m s c losest to the way I sort of
imagined her.

For her reverse, I agree with

n u m b e r e i g h t b e ing the strongest.

Is it

n u m b e r t h r e e w i th the acorn and oak leaf?
M R . S C A RINCI:
M R . H O G E:

Number two.

Number two, it is almost

i d e n t i c a l o f V o gel of the American Numismatic
S o c i e t y , a s I ’ m sure most of you are aware,
w h i c h i s a k i n d of peculiarity that we might
w a n t t o a v o i d h ere.

Thank you.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . S C A RINCI:

Thank you.

Donald?

For the obverse of Pat

N i x o n , I t h i n k number five is perfect because
o f t h e f o r c e d s mile.
D R . B U G EJA:
M R . S C A RINCI:
mind.

That was her.
Good argument.
That was her, from my

I l i k e o n the reverse -- I really love

t h e d e s i g n i n n umber five.
i n t e r e s t i n g p a i ring.

I think it is an

I think it’s different

t h a n a n y t h i n g w e have done in this particular

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

113
series.
image.

I l i k e the globe.

I like the people

I t h i n k it’s the best one.

d o n ’ t l i k e n u m b er three at all.

I really

I really hope

t h e r e i s n o m o v e to go with number three.

You

a r e j u s t n e v e r going to get this looking right
i n t h e d i a m e t e r of this particular coin.
I c a u t i o n t h o s e who want to go with number
three.
T h e n e x t one is on Betty Ford.
s e e t h e m e r i t s of one and two.

I can

I’m having a

h a r d t i m e d e c i d ing so I’m not going to decide.
I ’ m g o i n g t o h e ar what everybody has to say
a b o u t o n e a n d t wo.
each.

I could see the merits of

W h e n I l ook at one closely, it kind of

b o t h e r s m e ; h e r expression kind of bothers me.
N u m b e r t w o , I t hink has the nicest impression.
I ’ m a n x i o u s t o hear what everybody has to say
about that.
F o r t h e reverse, however, I love the
l a s t o n e , w h i c h is number eight, which is what
confused me.
humorous.

N umber seven is kind of

I t h ink the reason people are

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

114
r e a c t i n g t o n u m ber six, you know, it’s
a b s o l u t e l y a p r etty design.

We’ve seen

s o m e t h i n g l i k e this several times before.
T h i s o n e definitely works, but number
e i g h t w e h a v e n ever seen.

This whole concept

o f b r e a k i n g a g lass ceiling and this concept
o f s t e p s s t i l l to be taken, I just think it’s
powerful.

I t h ink it’s different.

You know

I ’ m a s u c k e r f o r a circle within a circle.
j u s t t h i n k t h i s one works.

I

I’ve really not

seen it.
I k n o w someone is probably going to
m e n t i o n t h e s i m ilarity to Michael Meszaros’
s t a i r c a s e t h a t he did for the Society of
M e d a l i s t s i n t h e late 1980s, I’m tempted to
say.
T h a t i s a different design and that is
a s t a i r c a s e g o i ng up.

This is a staircase

f r o m t h e v a n t a g e point of that glass ceiling.
I just like it.

I think it works.

I think

i t ’ s s y m b o l i c , certainly more symbolic in this
c a s e t h a n i t s c ompetitor, number six.

I think

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

115
n u m b e r s i x i s i ts only competitor.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Donald.

B e f o r e D r . V i o l a goes, just a note on the
s c o r e s h e e t s , f olks, that was just pointed out
to me.

I f y o u would look at the score sheet

a t t h e b o t t o m f or Betty Ford, and this is
i m p o r t a n t , I ’ d like everyone to grab your
score sheet.
P l e a s e note that on the reverses, there
is no “02.”

W o uld you please cross “02” out

a n d y o u n e e d t o add an “08” at the bottom.
apologies.

I a m responsible for preparing

t h e s e a h e a d o f the meeting.
one.

My

I fumbled on this

M y a p o l o g ies, but if you could please

m a k e t h o s e c o r r ections.
Okay.

Dr. Viola, please proceed.

D R . V I O LA:

Thank you.

I c e r t a i n l y l i k e number five.
remember.

For Pat Nixon,
That’s what I

O n t he reverse, I have a

h a n d i c a p p e d n e p hew, spends his life in a
w h e e l c h a i r , a n d it would be nice to have
s o m e t h i n g l i k e that on a coin, but I agree

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

116
t h a t i t p r o b a b l y would be very difficult to
convey.

S o , I guess I’d have to say I’d go

w i t h n u m b e r f i v e.

If there was some way to do

t h e o t h e r o n e , I would prefer that.
O n B e t t y, I think I really like number
s e v e n , a v e r y n atural look.

Having spent some

y e a r s i n t h e N a vy, lighthouses were very
i m p o r t a n t t o m e at sea, I do like the
l i g h t h o u s e s y m b olism.

If you folks think you

c a n m a k e t h i s n umber eight pop out, that’s
p r o b a b l y w h a t w e should go with.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

That’s it.

Thank you.

I’ll go to

Tom.
M R . U R A M:

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

On

P a t N i x o n , I , t oo, agree either five or seven.
I k i n d o f l e a n towards five.

Mike’s comment

t h e r e , i t c e r t a inly is appropriate.

There is

n o q u e s t i o n , I could go with either one.
M a y b e s h e d o e s deserve number seven, you know.
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . U R A M:

Like was said.

I could go

e i t h e r w a y , b u t maybe this smile would be

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

117
appropriate.
seven.

I would lean a little more on

O n t h e reverse, I had looked also at

n u m b e r s t h r e e , four, and five.

After

l i s t e n i n g , I a l so felt number three would be
d i f f i c u l t , p l u s we have used that in the
R o o s e v e l t s e r i e s as well and some other things
recently.
I ’ m g o i ng to go with number four, I
think.

I t h i n k the frosting and different

w a y s t h a t c o u l d be done is great, the
s y m b o l i s m i s t h ere.

Number five reminds me of

a f o r e i g n c o i n I’ve seen, and I can’t picture
i t e x a c t l y , b u t there is something out there
t h a t i s v e r y c l ose to it.

Maybe it was a 50

pence.

There is something

I d o n ’ t remember.

o u t t h e r e r e a l close to it.

I’m going to go

back to four.
O n B e t t y Ford, the reason why I put
n u m b e r s e v e n b a ck in at the last minute, and I
a p p r e c i a t e t h e Chairman doing that, I do like
n u m b e r o n e i f i t was between number one and
t w o , b u t n u m b e r seven, I had the opportunity,

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

118
a s s o m e o f y o u have said, I actually worked in
P i t t s b u r g h o n t he Abraxas Foundation, and she
w a s o u r s p e a k e r in the late 1970s.

I have a

r e a l l y n i c e p i c ture with her, and I just
thought of that.
I f y o u took that picture, she and I
w e r e l i k e t h i s (indicating) , it was exactly
that image.
right on.

I t ’s just right on.

It’s just

I t w as an honor to have done

s o m e t h i n g i n t h at era at that time as it
related to that.
S o , n u m ber seven, I’m really encouraged
a b o u t a n d I h o p e my colleagues would feel that
way.
O n t h e reverse, I, too, like the
l i g h t h o u s e , b u t I kind of gravitate towards
n u m b e r e i g h t i n the fact that it reminds me of
- - I t h i n k m a y b e there is some symbolism said
t h e r e , b u t c l i m bing to a better place, where
y o u h a v e b e e n a nd where you are climbing to,
t h e f u t u r e , a n d so forth, I think maybe
p r o p o r t i o n a t e l y the person needs to be

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

119
a d j u s t e d a l i t t le bit.

That head shot there

i s a l i t t l e b i t un- proportional or something,
o r m a y b e b e c a u s e I’m looking at the two of
them.
I t h i n k that will make a nice sweeping
i m a g e o n t h e r e verse of the coin.

I would go

w i t h n u m b e r e i g ht.
T h a n k y ou, Mr. Chairman.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Tom.

Jeanne?
M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:

Thank you, Gary.

F o r P a t N i x o n , I’m going to go with number
five.

I l i k e t he fact that she maybe does

h a v e a f o r c e d s mile.
it.

I think maybe she needs

I n n u m b e r seven, I’m not convinced.

m e , t h a t ’ s m o r e of a forced smile.

To

We also

h a v e m o r e t e e t h in there.
F o r t h e reverse, I’m going to go with
n u m b e r f i v e b e c ause if you look closely,
e v e r y b o d y i s c a lling these “stick figures,”
b u t I ’ d l i k e t o call them “primitive man.”
T h i s i s r e f l e c t ing her association with South

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

120
America, Peru.

If you look at it very

c l o s e l y , I t h i n k we see a little bit of basket
w e a v i n g b e t w e e n the torso and the legs.

It

j u s t s p e a k s t o me of working with a foreign
country.

I c h o se that over number four.

F o r B e t ty Ford, I’m going to comment on
t h e l i k e n e s s e s of one and two.
were very good.

I think they

However, number two gives me

a m o r e c o n v i n c i ng forehead.

She’s very

s e r i o u s , s h e ’ s very determined, and yet she
h a s t h i s s m i l e that lets me know she’s
p o s i t i v e a b o u t all that has happened to her.
I n n u m b e r o n e , her forehead dips a little bit,
a n d I ’ m n o t q u i te sure that’s anatomically
correct.

I d o n ’t think we want to do that.

I n n u m b er seven, and Tom, I’m going to
m a k e t h i s l i t t l e reference for you, when we
b r i n g o u r d o g s to the judge and he says show
t e e t h , t h i s i s what I’m thinking somebody has
s a i d t o h e r , s h ow teeth, so we can see more of
your mouth.

I don’t like this one for that

r e a s o n , e v e n t h ough this may be --

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

121
U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:

You could

tighten it up.
M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:
it up.

You could tighten

T h a t ’ s why I don’t like that one.

T h e r e v e r s e , I did think about -- I chose
n u m b e r t h r e e b e cause it was a very beautiful
d e s i g n , b u t a t the same time I know this is
t h e A N A s y m b o l , and Bob has spoken to that
issue.

I a l s o think maybe numismatists would

like it.
strength.

I t h i nk it’s very good that it shows
S h e has had to overcome a

t r e m e n d o u s a m o u nt in her life.
T h e l i g hthouse, number six, it is also
a g o o d r e p r e s e n tation of her struggles.
I ’ m s t i ll not totally convinced between
t h r e e a n d s i x , but I think we have a very good
r e p r e s e n t a t i o n of what she went through.

I

w a n t e d t o c o m p l iment the artists on their
a b i l i t y t o c a p t ure that.
T h a n k y ou, Gary.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Jeanne.

I ’ l l g o t o H e i d i.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

122
M S . W A S TWEET:

Thank you.

I may be the

o n l y o n e s t a n d i ng out in the field on this
o n e , b u t o n P a t Nixon, number four, I think
t h i s i s j u s t a beautiful design.

I think it’s

a n e x c e l l e n t e x ample, that sweeping hair to me
i s j u s t g o r g e o u s, the expression on her face
i s b e a u t i f u l , h er jaw shows the ultimate
d i g n i t y i n t h e face of a difficult life.
T h e r e i s a reason that profile
p o r t r a i t s h a v e been popular in the antiquity
o f c o i n s , b e c a u se our previous sculptors knew
t h a t t h e p r o f i l e on a coin makes for the best
s c u l p t u r e b e c a u se of the dynamics of low
r e l i e f s c u l p t i n g.
W h e n I do see a profile portrait that I
l i k e , I ’ m g o i n g to always sway toward that
o v e r t h e f r o n t on portrait, which is much more
d i f f i c u l t t o p u ll off in a coin.
I ’ m g i v ing full support to number four,
a n d I m a y b e t h e only one.
F o r t h e reverses, I want to talk a
m o m e n t a b o u t n u mber three, since this is the

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

123
C F A p i c k a n d t h ey had requested some changes
to the anatomy.

I want to talk about the

g e s t u r e a n d f i g ures on coins.

Because of the

s c a l e o f c o i n s , the gesture, the figures, is
v e r y , v e r y i m p o rtant, more so than the
details.
I f w e t ook this figure and just fixed
t h e d e t a i l , t h a t doesn’t fix the gesture.
T h i s g e s t u r e r e minds me of those Lego dolls,
a n d I d o n ’ t t h i nk we can overcome that.
B e s i d e s , i t ’ s v ery busy.
t h i s d e s i g n a t all.

I’m not supporting

I think it really misses

the mark.
N u m b e r five, I think this would be an
attractive coin.

I agree with what Tom said,

t h i s r e m i n d s m e of something else and I can’t
p u t m y f i n g e r o n it.

I like number four.

I

h a v e n ’ t d e c i d e d yet.
B e t t y F ord obverses, honestly, I didn’t
l i k e a n y o f t h e se particularly well.

I agree

w i t h J e a n n e o n number one, the forehead is a
bit flat.

N u m b er two, I could get behind that

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

124
one.

N u m b e r s e ven, those of you who know me

k n o w I ’ m n o t a fan of teeth on coins, showing
t e e t h , b u t I d o put a lot of weight into what
T o m s a i d s i n c e he saw her in person and this
i s a g o o d l i k e n ess, so I may give this some
support.
R e v e r s e s, number three, the oak leaves.
T h i s i s p a r t o f our American iconography and
v i s u a l l a n g u a g e , that oak leaves do stand for
strength.

I a g ree with Michael Bugeja that we

d o n ’ t n e e d t o h ave the word “Strength” on
there.

T h a t h a s already been said with the

l e a v e s t h e m s e l v es.
b e a u t i f u l d e s i g n.

I think this is a
It may not be original

e n o u g h c o n s i d e r ing the comments about the ANA
l o g o , b u t i t ’ s a nice design.
D e s i g n number six, it’s an attractive
design.

W e h a v e seen similar designs before.

I t ’ s a n i c e d e s ign.
number eight.

I do give merit to design

It’s very original.

I think

t h e s y m b o l o g y i s clear, getting out of the
d o w n w a r d s p i r a l is an unique perspective.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

I

Capital Reporting Company

125
t h i n k i t c a n w o rk.

I support Donald’s

c o m m e n t s a n d p r aise of this.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

That’s it.

Thank you, Heidi.

T h i s F i r s t S p o u se series is one that I didn’t
f e e l r e a l g o o d about until we got to the early
2 0 t h C e n t u r y a n d some of the things the First
S p o u s e s d i d b e c ame a little more interesting.
W i t h i t , t o o , w e saw an improvement of the art
t h a t w e a r e g e t ting.

I’m not sure which

d e s i g n I ’ l l p e g it to, but perhaps Edith
W i l s o n w i t h t h e hand on the cane, and then
moving forward.
I t h i n k we are putting together a
w o n d e r f u l c o l l e ction of reverse designs that I
t h i n k a r e n o t e w orthy.

Most of them are going

a l o n g t h i s i d e a of some real original symbolic
i m a g e s , t h i n g s we have not seen on American
coinage before.

I’m encouraged with it.

W i t h t h at idea, I wanted to say that to
p r e f a c e m y r e m a rks here because I’m hearing
s o m e r e m a r k s o n some of these designs that I
t h i n k w o u l d t a k e us away from what we have

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

126
b e e n t r y i n g t o achieve here, and I think we
h a v e a c o u p l e o f examples that very much keep
u s i n t h i s t r a c k that we are in right now of
s o m e r e a l u n i q u e originality.
W i t h t h at, I’ll start with the obverse
designs.

H e i d i , I think you have really given

m e a r e a s o n t o think about number four.
You’re right.

There is some stylistic

t e c h n i q u e g o i n g on here that is very
i n t e r e s t i n g , a n d I’ll probably be giving that
some support.
I ’ m a l s o surprised, Heidi, that I heard
y o u s a y y o u m i g ht support teeth.
( L a u g h t er.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

I’ve never seen a coin

s c u l p t e d w h e r e teeth looked good, it’s just
m a y b e a p r e f e r e nce of mine, but I just don’t
t h i n k t e e t h r e a lly come off.

It comes off a

l o t b e t t e r i n a line drawing than in a sculpt.
I ’ m n o t s u r e I can make that leap.
L e t ’ s g o to Pat Nixon reverses here.
k n o w a f e w o f y ou have talked about gosh, you

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

I

Capital Reporting Company

127
t h i n k y o u h a v e seen number five somewhere
before.

W e l l , maybe you have seen something

l i k e i t , b u t y o u have not seen this.

This is

a t r u l y u n i q u e design that moves this series
f o r w a r d i n a n i mportant way.
W e ’ r e t alking about Pat Nixon here, and
w h a t t h i s i m a g e says to me is the human
f a m i l y , b r i n g i n g peoples together,
reconciliation.

If you look hard enough right

i n t h e m i d d l e , there is a sun, which to me
t a l k s t o a b r i g hter future for mankind, with
t h e g l o b e r i g h t in the middle.
G r a p h i c ally, it’s very intriguing.

I

t h i n k w h e n y o u first look at this coin, it is
g o i n g t o b e o n e that is going to give you that
m o m e n t o f o h , a nd you are going to look at it.
I t ’ s n o t s o m e t h ing we have seen time and time
again.
I u s u a l ly like to stay on the positive
s i d e o f t h i n g s , but number four, we have seen
number four.

W e have seen torches.

s e e n t h i s s o r t of thing before.

We have

I’m not sure

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

128
t h e r e i s g o i n g to be a lot of popping in this
one.

N u m b e r t h ree, please don’t go to number

three, folks.

I know we kind of got some

p e o p l e u p s e t w i th the words “Storyboard,” but
w e h a v e m o v e d a way from it in a large way, and
t h i s t a k e s u s r ight back to that battle.
P l e a s e d o n ’ t p i ck this one.
N u m b e r five, I think is a wonderful
o p p o r t u n i t y f o r us, think about it in proof.
T h e s u n t h e r e i s going to be the polished
field.

I t ’ s g o ing to be a spectacular coin,

n o t o n l y i n t h e circulating version but
p a r t i c u l a r l y i n the proof version.

I would

j u s t c a l l o n y o u to give serious thought to
number five.

I t would not be some other

country’s coin.

It would be ours.

“ U n i t e d S t a t e s of America” up there.

It says
I don’t

t h i n k w e n e e d t o be afraid that it might look
l i k e s o m e t h i n g else somewhere else.
I f t h a t ’s the standard we were going to
u s e , m o s t o f e v erything we have looked at
t o d a y c e r t a i n l y has been done someplace else,

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

129
s o p l e a s e d o n ’ t let that sway you.
L e t ’ s g o to Betty Ford.
h u n g u p o n t e e t h.

Again, I’m

I hear what my friend, Tom,

i s s a y i n g , a n d I do like number seven, but I
c a n ’ t g e t o v e r the teeth.

I’m just not sure

t h a t i s g o i n g t o look good when it gets into a
coin.

I m u c h p refer number one.

I’m a little

o n t h e o u t s i d e with the group, I think, but I
t h i n k t h a t i s a nice rendering of her.
L e t ’ s g o to the reverse designs.
o f t e n h a p p e n s , I am with Donald again.
g o t o n u m b e r e i ght.

As
Let’s

Here again, this one is a

g r e a t s y m b o l i c image for Betty Ford.

This is

a w o m a n w h o c o n fronted the difficulties in
p e o p l e ’ s l i v e s and worked to get people rather
t h a n o n a d o w n w ard spiral, on an upward
spiral.

G r a p h i cally or symbolically, I should

s a y , i t t e l l s a story of moving your life in
t h e r i g h t d i r e c tion, but artistically; it
g i v e s t h i s s e r i es something once again that is
u n i q u e a n d o r i g inal.

I don’t think we have

s e e n a n y t h i n g e xactly like this.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

130
Y o u s e e the round opening of the bottom
o f t h e s t a i r s b ehind the lady’s head; it
a l m o s t g i v e s t h is aura around her head.

I see

t h a t a s a p o l i s hed area, and it’s going to
g i v e d e f i n i t i o n to the head, and just that
s p i r a l s h a p e , I ’m seeing that one band there
t h a t d o e s n ’ t h a ve stairs that kind of takes
o f f u n d e r h e r a rm on her torso and then moves
u p t o t h e l e f t , I’m guessing that is going to
b e a p o l i s h e d a rea.

I think that would be

o f f s e t r e a l l y n icely with the frosted steps.
I t h i n k this is a spectacular design,
folks.

I t h i n k it keeps us moving in the

r i g h t d i r e c t i o n for what this series has
b e c o m e f o r t h e 20 t h Century First Spouses.

I

w a n t t o e n c o u r a ge everyone to give some
s e r i o u s c o n s i d e ration for this design.

If it

c a n ’ t b e y o u r f avorite, I would ask that you
a t l e a s t g i v e i t some points.
S o , w i t h that, I’m going to go to Erik
a n d a s k h i m f o r his comments.
M R . J A N SEN:

Pat Nixon, obverse,

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

131
n o t h i n g i s f u n n ier than the truth and nothing
i s t r u t h i e r t h a n the fake.

I go with number

f i v e b e c a u s e I think this woman stoically
c a r r i e d i t f o r w ard when it was a heavy load to
carry.
W h e n I go to the reverse on Pat Nixon,
I ’ m g o i n g t o g o with design number five.

I

l o v e d t h i s d e s i gn from the instant this page
s h o w e d i t s e l f t o me.

I do have some -- I’m

v i s u a l l y c h a l l e nged here.

The heads touch the

g l o b e j u s t a l i ttle too close, and to that
e x t e n t , I ’ m n o t quite sure how you solve this,
b y s h r i n k i n g t h e globe or reducing the height
o f t h e c u t o u t figures.
I t h i n k there needs to be just a subtle
g a p b e t w e e n t h e top of the heads and the globe
t h a t i s a l i t t l e bit bigger than it is.
A r t i s t i c a l l y , I could be screwing this design
up completely.

So, if this gets selected, I’m

g o i n g t o a s k t h e group to give some discretion
t o t h e a r t i s t r endering this into the die to
t a k e a l o o k a t that issue.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

132
W h e n I go to Betty Ford obverse, I vote
s t r o n g l y f o r o n e and two.

I’ll go with either

o n e o f t h e m , d o you want the side view or the
t h r e e -q u a r t e r s view, I don’t care.

That is

B e t t y F o r d i n m y book, not number seven.
W h e n I go to the reverse for Betty
F o r d , I h a v e t o tell you, I don’t know if the
a r t i s t t h a t d i d number eight is listening, but
t h e a r t i s t t h a t did number eight really got
it.

I t c a r r i e s the brilliance of the

c h a l l e n g e o f c l imbing out of the spiral and
g i v e s y o u t h e s ense of vertigo that one gets
w h e n o n e f a c e s those truths in one’s life.
T h a n k y ou.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Erik.

We

w i l l g o t o M i c h ael.
M R . M O R AN:

I’m stuck on Pat Nixon in

t e r m s o f w h a t I ’m going to do on the voting.
F i v e a n d s e v e n look like they were done almost
b y t h e s a m e a r t ist.

Heidi has made a very

g o o d p o i n t a b o u t number four and profile.
t h i n k s h e l o o k s stoic there.

You get away

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

I

Capital Reporting Company

133
f r o m t h e i s s u e of the smile, is it forced or
not forced.
on that one.

I don’t know what I’m going to do
T hat’s the only place where I

h a v e n o t d e c i d e d.
T h e r e v erse, it’s already been covered,
i t ’ s n u m b e r f i v e.

It’s clearly number five.

T u r n i n g to Betty Ford, I like number
two.

I t h i n k t hat is a good design for her.

I t h i n k n u m b e r one didn’t quite get the hair
r i g h t , w h e n y o u look at the images that are on
t h e I n t e r n e t , h ow she styled her hair.

On the

o t h e r h a n d , I a lso respect Tom in that he was
w i t h B e t t y F o r d , he has a personal
r e c o l l e c t i o n o f what she looked like, in
number seven.

I’m going to have to give that

s o m e v o t e s a s w ell.
I w a n t to take a minute to repeat what
p e o p l e h a v e s a i d about reverse eight with the
s p i r a l s t a i r c a s e.

We’re getting into First

L a d i e s t h a t w e r e multi- faceted, particularly
i n o u r r e c o l l e c tions of them.

Betty Ford was

n o t s o s i m p l e a s a cluster of oak leaves.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

She

Capital Reporting Company

134
w a s a c o m p l e x p ersonality.

I think the thing

t h a t m a k e s a g o od coin design is when it
s p e a k s t o t h e i ndividual and can offer
m u l t i p l e i n t e r p retations.

This is one of the

s t r o n g e s t r e v e r ses I have seen in this regard.
I l i k e t h e w a y the negative space there around
t h e h e a d i s d o n e.
I c a m e in here wanting to vote for
n u m b e r o n e , t h e scales, and it is clearly this
o n e , n u m b e r e i g ht.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay.

f u l l c i r c l e i n our comments.

That takes us
Are there any

f o l l o w -u p ’ s y o u would like to add quickly?
D R . B U G EJA:

I’d like to do one really

quickly.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Go ahead, Michael.

y o u h a v e a m i c r ophone?
D R . B U G EJA:

No, I’ll just speak

loudly.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

We need to get it on

the recording.
D R . B U G EJA:

Okay.

I’d like to go to

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Do

Capital Reporting Company

135
n u m b e r e i g h t , B etty Ford.
s u g g e s t i o n f o r depth.

This is just a

I don’t know if the

i n t e n t w a s a p a tchwork quilt design.
sorry.

I h a v e the wrong one.

I’m

I just lost it.

I g u e s s it’s Pat Nixon, number five.
I’m sorry.
I t h i n k Erik spoke a little bit about
t h e h e a d i s t o o close to the planet.

If the

d e s i g n i s n o t i ntended to be flat, one of the
t h i n g s w i t h o r i entation, and there are some
w o n d e r f u l o r i e n tation work, number eight of
B e t t y F o r d i s a n example of that.
I w o n d e r if you made the earth smaller
a n d y o u p u s h e d the figures in toward it, you
w o u l d g e t d e p t h of field, or if you move the
e a r t h o u t a l i t tle bit and maybe over some.
I n o t h e r w o r d s , to play with orientation.
T h i s i s a design, and I’m going to mess
w i t h t h e d e s i g n , but this is an example of
w h a t t h e c o n c e p t of orientation can do.

Every

t i m e y o u s t a r t to change the devices to make
d e p t h o f f i e l d , you’re going to get a better

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

136
d e s i g n o n a c o i n.
W h a t I worry about on this one is it
a l m o s t l o o k s l i ke a shield.

I would like to

s e e s o m e d e p t h , some shadow, unless the design
w a s m a d e t o b e flat.

That’s a perfect example

o f w h a t I h a v e been trying to say about coins.
I f y o u go to Pat Nixon number eight,
w h a t w e h a v e b e en talking about, I think you
g e t a p e r f e c t e xample of depth of field, and
how -U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:
D R . B U G EJA:

Betty Ford.

Betty Ford, number eight.

O n e o f t h e t h i n gs Betty Ford was known for is
e n c o u r a g i n g w o m en to get breast cancer tests.
I r e m e m b e r c o v e ring that.
c o u r a g e o u s i n t hat.

She was mightily

So, that shows she was

a l w a y s m o v i n g f orward.
J u s t l i stening to what people were
s a y i n g , I h a v e come to really appreciate that.
I c o v e r e d t h a t Administration, so I know her
courage.

I ’ m c hanging my viewpoint to that

b e c a u s e i t d o e s reflect courage.

That’s all.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

137
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Michael.

Mary?
M S . L A N NIN:

Gary, in light of what

H e i d i w a s s a y i n g about having a problem with
t e e t h , I l i k e P atricia Nixon number five.

I

t h i n k t h e r e h a v e been quite a few votes for
it.

T h a t ’ s m y memory of sort of what she

looked like.

W e’re talking about the forced

s m i l e , t h e f a c t that is probably exactly what
she felt like.
W o u l d w e like it any better if the lips
were closed?

I think that is really a

r e f l e c t i o n o f w hat she looked like, not just
have the teeth?

Just a thought.

M S . W A S TWEET:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

It would be better.
I’m going to ask just

q u i c k l y t o i n d u lge me on Nixon number five
reverse again.

Just a quick note there.

Some

o f u s t a l k e d e a rlier before the meeting about
t h i s i d e a o f a proof map and layers of
frosting.
I t h i n k in this one, the proof map is

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

138
right there.

I think there are two layers of

f r o s t t h a t a r e very evident that would apply
t o t h e w h o l e t h ing, plus the mirrored field
t h a t w o u l d g o a round the globe.
w o u l d j u s t b e s tunning.

I think it

I think it would be a

s t u n n i n g d e s i g n , particularly of her.
A n y o t h er quick comments?
M S . W A S TWEET:

I will say on this one,

t h e w a y I s e e t his, it does have dimension
w i t h t h e g l o b e being round and the texture
b e h i n d t h e f i g u res.

I think in that respect

i t ’ s n o t f l a t , but it does pop out and it will
l o o k g o o d o n t h e actual size.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Yes, I would truly

h o p e t h a t t h e g lobe would have some relief to
it.

I f t h a t g l obe ends up like a pancake that

i s g o i n g t o b e difficult for this design.
Okay.

Anyone else quickly?

( N o r e s ponse.)
M R . M A R KS:

All right.

What I will do

n o w i s a s k e v e r yone to register their support
o n t h e i r v o t i n g sheets, and get those into our

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

139
S e c r e t a r y , M r . Jansen, and staff.
A t t h i s point, we are scheduled for
lunch.

W e a r e a little bit ahead of schedule.
M S . S T A FFORD:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Lunch is there.
Are we ready to

adjourn?
M S . S T A FFORD:

Yes, sir.

Agenda,

r e t u r n i n g a t 1 : 15.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
back at 1:15.

Okay.

We are going

I’m going to encourage, ask,

a n d p l e a d w i t h everyone to please make a point
o f b e i n g h e r e a t 1:15.

As soon as a quorum is

i n t h e r o o m , I will get going.

We have a lot

o f w o r k t o d o y et this afternoon, particularly
w i t h t h e “ A m e r i ca The Beautiful” quarter.

We

h a v e a n u m b e r o f designs to go through.
P l e a s e be here at 1:15.

Until then, we

are in recess.
( W h e r e u pon, at 12:15 p.m., a luncheon
r e c e s s w a s t a k e n.)

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

140
A F T E R N O O N

S E S S I O N
( 1:15 p.m.)

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay.

We are back on

t h e r e c o r d , a n d we have a quorum in the room.
T h e f i r s t t h i n g I want to do is thank the
C o m m i t t e e a n d t he staff for a wonderful
morning.

I t h i nk the discussion was very

productive.

W e did it in a very efficient

w a y , a n d I t h o u ght we were also very thorough.
T h a n k y o u , e v e r yone, for the great work this
morning.
W e h a v e some results to report to you
f r o m a l l t h a t w ork.
Truman obverse.

I will start with the

Again, for those of you who

m i g h t n o t h a v e been here this morning, a
p e r f e c t s c o r e h ere is 33.

We need 17 for a

c l e a r m a j o r i t y to gain the Committee’s
recommendation.
I ’ l l t e ll you right now we have one
c o i n f a c e t h a t we didn’t get to the threshold,
s o w e a r e g o i n g to have to have some
d i s c u s s i o n a t a minimum on that coin face.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

141
F o r t h e Truman obverse, I will just go
d o w n t h e l i n e h ere, I’m not going to read off
t h e o n e s w e e l i minated, assume those to be
z e r o , s o T r u m a n obverse number two received 14
points.

O b v e r s e three is our recommended

d e s i g n w i t h 3 0 , 30 of the 33, that’s a fairly
strong vote.

O bverse four received eight.

T r u m a n reverses, reverse number two is
our selection.

That is a score of 28, with

d e s i g n n u m b e r t hree receiving 14, and design
n u m b e r s i x r e c e iving four.
M o v i n g on to Eisenhower, the only
d e s i g n i n c o n s i deration was number five for
t h e o b v e r s e , a n d it received a perfect score
of 33.
G o i n g o n to the reverse designs, design
n u m b e r t h r e e r e ceived 18.
received 20.
looking at.

Design number four

T hey are the only two we were
A t this point in time, design

n u m b e r f o u r i s our indicated recommendation.
G o i n g o n to the Kennedy obverse, design
n u m b e r t w o r e c e ived 11.

Design number three,

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

142
w h i c h w a s n o t i n the running still somehow
received a vote.
seven.

Design number five received

D e s i g n number eight is our recommended

d e s i g n w i t h a s core of 30.

That is obverse

e i g h t f o r K e n n e dy, 30 points.
M o v i n g on to Johnson on the obverse -U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:

Reverse for

Kennedy.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Oh, how did I do that.

K e n n e d y r e v e r s e number one received 28, and
t h a t i s o u r r e c ommendation.

Number five

received 11.
N o w g o i ng to Johnson obverse, obverse
t w o r e c e i v e d 1 1 points, obverse three, six,
o b v e r s e f i v e , 1 4, obverse six, three, and
o b v e r s e s e v e n r eceived 15.

Now, if you are

k e e p i n g t r a c k y ou will say ah, none of those
got to 17.

W e ’ re going to have to revisit the

J o h n s o n o b v e r s e by Motion and decide what our
r e c o m m e n d a t i o n will be.
M o v i n g on to Johnson reverse, number
o n e r e c e i v e d 1 8 points and is our indicated

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

143
recommendation.

Design number two, which was

n o t i n t h e r u n n ing, received two.
n u m b e r t h r e e r e ceived 16.

Design

Design number four,

w h i c h w a s n o t b eing considered, received two.
D e s i g n n u m b e r e ight received 10.
T h a t w a s it for 2015.

We now look at

2016 Spouses.
N i x o n o bverse four received 15 points.
O b v e r s e f i v e i s our recommended design at 25.
O b v e r s e s e v e n r eceived seven.
G o i n g t o the Nixon reverse, design
n u m b e r t h r e e f o r Nixon received zero, that was
o n e b e i n g c o n s i dered, but it received zero.
D e s i g n n u m b e r f our received 11.

Our

r e c o m m e n d e d d e s ign receiving a nearly perfect
s c o r e o f 3 1 , d e sign number five.

It received

3 1 o f 3 3 p o s s i b le.
M o v i n g on to Ford, the Ford obverse,
n u m b e r o n e r e c e ived 20, and that is our
r e c o m m e n d e d d e s ign.

Design number two

r e c e i v e d 1 5 , a n d design number seven received
15.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

144
M S . L A N NIN:

Must have been the pearls.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
o n e r e c e i v e d t h ree.

Design number three

r e c e i v e d f i v e p oints.
received zero.
nine.

Ford reverse, number

Design number five

Design number six received

S e v e n , w hich was not being considered,

received two.

And drum roll, please, design

n u m b e r e i g h t r e ceived a perfect score of 33.
T h a t i s t h e s p i ral staircase.
S o , t h o se are our scores from our
morning work.

Again, I want to thank everyone

f o r a g r e a t j o b , great discussion, and a real
e f f i c i e n t a n d t horough examination of the
designs.
S o , a t this point, I’m going to ask us
t o l o o k a t t h e Johnson obverse.

The two

h i g h e s t p o i n t t otals came out of design number
f i v e a n d s e v e n on the obverse, so if we could
l o o k a t f i v e a n d seven.

Those seem to be the

o n e s w i t h t h e m ost support at this point.
I f t h e r e is anyone who wants to make a
p i t c h , I ’ l l a s k you to keep it brief, because

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

145
w e d o h a v e t o g et on to the America the
B e a u t i f u l s e r i e s.

Does anyone want to make

a n y c o m m e n t s o n these two designs?
M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:

Gary, the biggest

c o m m e n t I h a v e to make about this particular
d e s i g n i s i t l o oks most like her.
I t h i n k the other design has too much
h a i r d o t h a t i s not quite appropriate to that
t i m e a n d t h a t e ra.

This is a little more

c o n t e m p o r a r y o f what we see today, but I think
b a c k i n t h e 1 9 6 0s, number five really portrays
w h a t s h e l o o k e d like then.

Maybe she looked

l i k e t h a t l a t e r , but certainly not during her
tenure.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . J A N SEN:

Erik?

Yes, I would reiterate

t h a t , I t h i n k j ust plain on a facial
r e n d e r i n g , n u m b er five is what she looked
like.

O n e o f t he things to think about here,

a c t u a l l y t w o t h ings, the first one is the
s h a d i n g t h a t t h e artist has chosen, that
c a s t s , I t h i n k , her neckline and a number of

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

146
t h i n g s l e s s a t t ractive, just because of the
c o n t r a s t t h e h a ir, the lips, the eyes provide
against it.
T h e s e c ond thing is the rendering of
h e r h e a d i s s m a ller in image number five than
n u m b e r s e v e n , s o I think it tends to make the
d e s i g n l o o k a l ittle less dominant.
I ’ m g o i ng to support number five and
w o u l d s u p p o r t a Motion to adopt five.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Anyone else want to

m a k e s o m e c o m m e nts?
M R . H O G E:

I think number five is a

m o r e a c c u r a t e i mage of her, at least in my
recollection.
M S . L A N NIN:

Gary, I agree.

f i v e i s m o r e a c curate.
she looked like.

I think

I think five is what

Seven may be what she wanted

to look like.
( L a u g h t er.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Can we go to seven?

w i l l b e m a y b e t he lone person here in
d i s a g r e e m e n t w i th the rest of the group.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

I

I

Capital Reporting Company

147
d o n ’ t t h i n k t h a t hair looks modern.

What

w o u l d y o u t h i n k if you saw a lady come in the
r o o m w i t h h a i r like that?
U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
drawn.
her.

Nice pearls.

I think it is well

I t h i n k it is a favorable rendering of
I d o n ’ t t hink there is anything wrong

w i t h t h a t e i t h e r.
M R . J A N SEN:

You’re advocating seven?

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
to lose.

Yes, I am.

I’m going

A t l e ast I’m on the record, so when

t h e o t h e r o n e i s made and people say why in
t h e w o r l d , a n d I’ll say I don’t know, I didn’t
s u p p o r t t h a t o n e.
M S . L A N NIN:

Ask Mary.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M S . L A N NIN:

I don’t know, ask Mary.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M S . L A N NIN:

Pardon me?

That’s right.

I’m in agreement with Bob.

W h e n I t h i n k o f Lady Bird, I think of number
five.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Are there any other

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

148
comments?

G o a head.

M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:

Sorry to make

t h i s l o n g , b u t also, if you look at number
f i v e , s h e h a s a more distinct forehead; her
b r o w i s h i g h e r than it is in number seven.

I

t h i n k t h i s i s L ady Bird’s distinct imagery.
M S . L A N NIN:

Yes.

M R . E V E RHART:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . E V E RHART:

May I make a suggestion?
Go ahead.
On this one, I would

b l o w t h e i m a g e up, take some area out of the
b o t t o m s o t h a t the head is more in line with
w h a t w e h a v e a l ready done in the series, sizewise.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Let me make this

s u g g e s t i o n , b e c ause I think I see the train is
on the track.

If there is a Motion, I’d like

t o e n t e r t a i n t h at Motion, but if we could
e x p e d i t e t h i s m atter, if you agree with what
D o n E v e r h a r t j u st suggested, if you would just
i n c o r p o r a t e t h a t into the Motion, and that we
r e c o m m e n d n u m b e r five with some enlargement of

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

149
- - u n l e s s y o u d on’t want to make that Motion.
Y o u a r e f r e e n o t to take that Motion.
W h o e v e r wants to make a Motion at this
p o i n t , I w o u l d ask you to do so.
M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:

I move that we

a c c e p t i m a g e n u mber five without adjusting the
l o w e r p a r t , b e c ause I don’t think we really
n e e d t o m a k e i t look like all the other ones.
I t h i n k t h i s i s quite nice.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

I like it.

It’s been moved.

Is

there a second?
M R . J A N SEN:

Second.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

It has been moved and

s e c o n d e d t o r e c ommend design number five for
t h e o b v e r s e o f Lady Bird Johnson’s coin,
w i t h o u t c h a n g e to what we see here on the
screen.

I s t h e re any discussion before we go

to the vote?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
question.

Okay.

I’m calling the

A l l those in favor, please raise

your hand.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

150
( S h o w o f hands.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Eight in favor.

All

those, opposed?
( S h o w o f hands.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . S C A RINCI:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . S C A RINCI:

One opposed.
I’m abstaining.
Okay.
Gary, I’ll change my

vote to no.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you.

I don’t

f e e l s o a l o n e n ow.
M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
Motion prevails.

I’ll join you.

The vote is 8- 3.

The

We are going to recommend

L a d y B i r d J o h n s on obverse number five as
presented.
W i t h t h at, the Chair will make a Motion
now.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

The Chair will make a

M o t i o n r e c o g n i z ing that number five has been
selected.

I w i ll make a Motion that we act on

t h e s u g g e s t i o n of Don Everhart to enlarge the

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

151
i m a g e s l i g h t l y to give it a little more
impact.
D o I h a ve a second to my Motion?
D R . B U G EJA:

Second.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

It’s been moved and

s e c o n d e d t o e n l arge the image of Lady Bird
J o h n s o n o n n u m b er five obverse.
M R . J A N SEN:

Question.

Essentially,

y o u a r e w a n t i n g to enlarge the face by
s a c r i f i c i n g s o m e of the portion of the lower
bust?
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Correct.

I don’t

t h i n k w e a r e t a lking about a lot here, right?
M R . E V E RHART:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
i m p a c t f u l c h a n g e.

No.
It’s a slight but

I think it’s not going to

l o o k i n l i n e w i th the other First Spouse
c o i n s , i t ’ s g o i ng to look at little bit
diminished.

I ’ m concerned for Lady Bird

J o h n s o n , t h a t w e don’t make her diminished
a m o n g t h e o t h e r First Spouses.
C o m m e n t s?

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

152
M S . W A S TWEET:
opposition.

I’ll be the voice of

D o n, I usually agree with you,

b u t I l i k e i t t he way it is.

I think it looks

p r o p o r t i o n e d b e tween the top and the bottom
r a t h e r t h a n s o m e of the heads get a little top
h e a v y , a n d I t h ink this is well balanced.
I t h i n k the collar is important.

I

t h i n k i t m a k e s her look very down to earth and
u n p r e t e n t i o u s , that style of collar and her
n e c k i s v e r y g r aceful.

I would be in favor of

k e e p i n g i t t h e way it is.
M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:

To add to Heidi’s

c o m m e n t , i f y o u do make that larger and you
e n c r o a c h o n h e r pearls, I think Mary would not
be happy.

I t h ink the way this is designed

r i g h t n o w , I t h ink it’s just right.
M R . S C A RINCI:

Aren’t we going to frost

her pearls?
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

If we enlarge it so

m u c h t h a t t h e p earls were gone, that is too
big.

F o r t h e r ecord, the Motion maker does

n o t e n v i s i o n t h e pearls disappearing.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

153
W i t h t h at, I’m going to call for the
question.

A l l those in favor of the Motion,

p l e a s e r a i s e y o ur hand.
( S h o w o f hands.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Four.

All those

opposed?
( S h o w o f hands.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . S C A RINCI:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Six.
Abstaining.
The Motion fails on a

v o t e o f f o u r i n favor, six opposed, and one
abstention.

O k ay.

C o m m i t t ee, are we prepared to move on
t o t h e A m e r i c a the Beautiful Program?
s e e m s t h a t w e a re.

It

At this point, we will go

t o A p r i l S t a f f o rd and ask her for her staff
report.

A p r i l , if you could present all five

u n d e r c o n s i d e r a tion for 2016, I would
appreciate that.
M S . S T A FFORD:

Thank you.

The America

t h e B e a u t i f u l Q uarter Program is a multi- year
i n i t i a t i v e a u t h orized by Public Law 110- 456.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

154
T h e A c t d i r e c t s the United States Mint to mint
a n d i s s u e 5 6 c i rculating quarter dollars with
r e v e r s e d e s i g n s emblematic of a national park
o r o t h e r n a t i o n al site in each state, the
D i s t r i c t o f C o l umbia, and the U.S.
Territories.
T h e q u a rters are issued sequentially
e a c h y e a r i n t h e order in which the featured
s i t e w a s f i r s t established as a national park
or site.

T h e r everse inscriptions on the

d e s i g n a t i o n o f the site -- forgive me, let me
s t a r t t h a t a g a i n.
T h e r e v erse inscriptions are the
d e s i g n a t i o n o f the site and the host
j u r i s d i c t i o n , t he year of minting or issuance,
a n d “ E P l u r i b u s Unum.”
W e h a v e with us today representatives
f r o m e a c h o f t h e five sites being honored in
2 0 1 6 , s o m e o f t hem are with us today and some
a r e o n t h e p h o n e.

I will introduce them and

a s k t h e m t o s a y a few words before reviewing
t h e c a n d i d a t e d esigns for their site.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

155
W e w i l l start first with Shawnee
National Forest.

Shawnee National Forest was

d e s i g n a t e d i n 1 939.

It is located in the

O z a r k a n d S h a w n ee Hills of Southern Illinois,
c o n s i s t i n g o f a pproximately 280,000 acres of
l a n d , t h e r e a r e seven officially designated
w i l d e r n e s s a r e a s within the forest.
R e p r e s e ntatives of Shawnee National
F o r e s t h a v e i d e ntified Garden of the Gods
W i l d e r n e s s a s a n appropriate feature for the
q u a r t e r s ; s p e c i fically liaisons to Shawnee
N a t i o n a l F o r e s t prefer designs featuring Camel
Rock.
T h e r e a re five candidate designs for
consideration.

I’d like to bring the

C o m m i t t e e ’ s a t t ention to a break in the
n u m b e r i n g o f t h e designs.

This goes

t h r o u g h o u t t h e portfolio.

There were some

d e s i g n s t h a t w e re removed after further
c o n s i d e r a t i o n w ith our site liaisons.
W e s h o u ld have with us on the phone
A m a n d a P a t r i c k , Public Affairs Officer with

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

156
S h a w n e e N a t i o n a l Forest.

Amanda, are you on

the phone?
M S . P A T RICK:

I’m here.

Thank you.

R e a l b r i e f l y , I do want to clarify something.
M S . S T A FFORD:

I’m sorry, Amanda.

c o u l d i n t r o d u c e you again.
you.

If I

We can barely hear

A m a n d a , c an you just say a few words

about your site?
M S . P A T RICK:

The Shawnee National

F o r e s t i s t h e o nly national forest in
Illinois.
land.

W e a re 287,000 acres of public

I t i s n o t at all what you anticipate

w h e n y o u h e a r t he word “Illinois.”
f l a t , i t i s n o t farm land.

It is not

We have a varied

t o p o g r a p h y o f r olling hills, mountains that
w i l l m a k e y o u t hink you are in Eastern
K e n t u c k y , t h e w etland areas; it is quite an
unique spot.
I n s u p p ort of what the Governor’s
O f f i c e h a s s a i d , the Governor recommended
C a m e l R o c k i n t he Garden of the Gods’
r e c r e a t i o n a r e a , and we do support that

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

157
d e c i s i o n a n d w e are honored that the Governor
i s i n s u p p o r t o f Camel Rock.
factor.

It has that wow

I t i s what is iconic for the state

w h e n m a n y f o l k s visit.
M S . S T A FFORD:
much.

Thank you, Amanda, very

F o r t h o s e of our liaisons that are on

t h e p h o n e , w e a re going to cycle through the
d e s i g n s , w h i c h you should have copies of.
N o w , w e will go through the Shawnee
N a t i o n a l F o r e s t reverse designs.
w i l l s t a r t w i t h reverse one.

First, we

This design

d e p i c t s a y o u n g girl climbing the stairway cut
i n t o r o c k n e a r Bell Smith Springs.
N e x t i s reverse three, which depicts
C a m e l R o c k , t h e most popular and iconic rock
f o r m a t i o n a t S h awnee National Forest.

I will

n o t e t h a t t h i s is our site liaison’s second
p r e f e r r e d d e s i g n.
R e v e r s e four depicts a close view of
C a m e l R o c k w i t h natural vegetation in the
foreground.

D e sign four also features a red-

t a i l e d h a w k s o a ring in the sky overhead.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

This

Capital Reporting Company

158
i s t h e s i t e ’ s t hird preferred design.
R e v e r s e six depicts Devil’s Smokestack,
o n e o f t h e r o c k features at Shawnee National
Forest.

R e v e r s e seven depicts an overview of

C a m e l R o c k , s h o wing the full shape of the
formation.

T h i s is the site’s first preferred

d e s i g n , a n d i t is also the recommendation of
the CFA.
M o v i n g on to Cumberland Gap National
Historical Park.

Cumberland Gap National

H i s t o r i c a l P a r k was established in 1940.

The

p a r k i s l o c a t e d where Kentucky, Tennessee and
Virginia meet.

Cumberland Gap itself is a

n a t u r a l b r e a k i n the Appalachian Mountains,
l o n g u s e d a s a gateway through the mountains.
F o r c e n turies, Native Americans
t r a v e l e d a l o n g a trail known as Warriors’
Path.

B e g i n n i n g in the late 1700s, pioneers

a n d s e t t l e r s t r aveled along the historic
w i l d e r n e s s r o a d through Cumberland Gap and
into Kentucky.

It is estimated upwards of

3 0 0 , 0 0 0 p e o p l e from all walks of life traveled

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

159
t h i s r o u t e b y t he early 1820s.
D u r i n g the Civil War, Union and
C o n f e d e r a t e f o r ces vied for control of the Gap
a s i t r e m a i n e d an important route west.
T h e r e a re five candidate designs for
consideration.

Again, note a break in the

n u m b e r i n g s e q u e nce.
W e h a v e with us on the phone Carol
B o r n e m a n , C h i e f of Interpretation with
C u m b e r l a n d G a p National Historical Park.
C a r o l , w o u l d y o u like to say a few words?
M S . B O R NEMAN:

We were simply wowed by

a l l o f t h e d e s i gns and we just thank you for
g i v i n g u s t h e o pportunity to participate.
Cool designs.
M S . S T A FFORD:

Okay.

Thank you.

Of

c o u r s e , a s w e s tart to discuss the designs,
t h e C o m m i t t e e m ay have questions for any of
o u r l i a i s o n s a s we go through.
F i r s t , for Cumberland Gap, we will
s t a r t w i t h r e v e rse one, which features a
s e r i e s o f f o o t p rints symbolizing the journey

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

160
t h r o u g h C u m b e r l and Gap, the first great
g a t e w a y t o t h e west.

Cumberland Gap was first

u s e d b y a n i m a l s , then by Native Americans,
f r o n t i e r s m e n , a nd eventually hundreds of
p i o n e e r s a s a g ateway through the Cumberland
Mountains.

T h e additional inscription reads

“ F i r s t D o o r w a y to the West.”
R e v e r s e two features a frontiersman
g a z i n g a c r o s s t he mountains to the west.

Many

p i o n e e r s u s e d C umberland Gap on their journey
i n t o t h e w e s t e r n frontiers of Kentucky and
Tennessee.

T h e addition inscription reads

“ F i r s t D o o r w a y to the West.”

This is the

p a r k ’ s f i r s t p r eferred design.
R e v e r s e three features Indian Rock, a
l a r g e i s o l a t e d boulder that became a landmark
t o t h o s e t h a t t raveled through Cumberland Gap.
I t i s a s p o t f r om which people were ambushed.
I t b e a r s s c r a t c hes and messages from settlers
passing through.
I t h a s been a waylaying station and a
g r a v e m a r k e r , a nd it also served as a

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

161
b i l l b o a r d o f s o rts along the Dixie Highway,
w h i c h h i s t o r i c a lly led travelers through the
Gap.

T h i s i s t he park’s third preferred

design.
R e v e r s e five shows a view from Pinnacle
O v e r l o o k a t C u m berland Gap.

While the

O v e r l o o k i t s e l f is located in Virginia, the
f i g u r e i n t h e f oreground looks into Kentucky.
F e r n L a k e i s v i sible in the background.
R e v e r s e six depicts a white- tailed deer
w i t h t h e C u m b e r land Gap in the background.
T h i s i s t h e p a r k’s second preferred design.
I t i s a l s o t h e CFA’s recommended design.

The

C F A s u g g e s t s t h at the deer be slightly reduced
t o f u r t h e r h i g h light the geography of the Gap.
I ’ l l m o ve on to Harpers Ferry National
Historical Park.

This was declared a national

m o n u m e n t i n 1 9 4 4 and a national historical
park in 1963.

The park consists of almost

4 , 0 0 0 a c r e s o f land, including the historic
T o w n o f H a r p e r s Ferry.

It is believed that

t h e n a t u r a l e n v ironment, the landscape and the

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

162
g e o g r a p h y d i r e c tly influenced the historical
e v e n t s t h a t o c c urred here.
A u t u m n Cook, the Web Manager and Social
M e d i a S p e c i a l i s t with Harpers Ferry National
H i s t o r i c a l P a r k is here in the room with us
today.

I ’ d l i k e to introduce you, Autumn.

C a n I h a n d y o u the microphone to say a few
words?
M S . C O O K:
be here today.

Thank you for allowing me to

We were excited to review all

t h e d e s i g n s , a n d I look forward to answering
a n y q u e s t i o n s y ou may have regarding the eight
d e s i g n s p r e s e n t ed.
M S . S T A FFORD:
that.

Thank you, we appreciate

S t a r t i n g with reverses one and two,

b o t h o f t h e s e d esigns feature a hand clutching
a r i f l e e m e r g i n g from stylized water with a
g e a r i n t h e b a c kground.

Water was the source

o f p o w e r f o r t h e Industrial Revolution.

As

s u c h , t h e l o c a t ion of Harpers Ferry where the
S h e n a n d o a h a n d Potomac Rivers converge was key
t o i t s d e v e l o p m ent.

The rivers were used to

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

163
p o w e r t h e e q u i p ment at the United States Amory
a n d A r s e n a l a t Harpers Ferry.
T h i s i s reverse one and reverse two.
R e v e r s e three depicts John Brown’s
F o r t , a b u i l d i n g originally used as a fire
e n g i n e a n d g u a r d house for the Armory at
Harpers Ferry.

During John Brown’s raid,

B r o w n , a n a b o l i tionist, took refuge in the
building.

T h e building was the only U.S.

A r m o r y b u i l d i n g to escape destruction during
the Civil War.
R e v e r s e s four, five and 5A, here, two
c i r c l i n g h a w k s fly over Jefferson Rock, an
h i s t o r i c o v e r l o ok at Harpers Ferry.

The rock

i s n a m e d f o r T h omas Jefferson who stood there
o n O c t o b e r 2 5 , 1783.
T h e a r t ist intends the hawks to
s y m b o l i z e t h e c onnection between Thomas
J e f f e r s o n a n d M erriweather Lewis who
c o r r e s p o n d e d a s Lewis worked up the details of
h i s w e s t w a r d e x pedition while at Harpers
Ferry.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

164
D e s i g n s five and 5A feature a replica
o f T h o m a s J e f f e rson’s signature.

Here is

r e v e r s e f o u r , f ive and 5A.
R e v e r s e six features an overview of
Harpers Ferry.

The image includes the

h i s t o r i c i r o n b ridge crossing the Potomac
R i v e r a n d t h e c onfluents of the Potomac with
Shenandoah.

T h e steep cliffs and canopy of

t r e e s s u r r o u n d the historic Town Center.

This

d e s i g n i s o u r l iaison’s preferred design and
i t i s a l s o t h e recommendation of the CFA.
R e v e r s e seven features John Brown’s
F o r t , t h e s i t e of John Brown’s last stand
d u r i n g h i s r a i d on the U.S. Armory.
M o v i n g on to Theodore Roosevelt
National Park.

This was established in 1946

a s a n a t i o n a l w ildlife refuge.

The park is

l o c a t e d i n t h e Badlands of North Dakota and is
c o m p o s e d o f t h r ee areas, South Unit, North
U n i t , a n d E l k h o rn Ranch Unit.

The park was

e s t a b l i s h e d t o memorialize the area’s
i m p o r t a n c e i n R oosevelt’s life and the key

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

165
r o l e i t p l a y e d in fostering his conservation
ethics.
W e h a v e six candidate designs for your
consideration.
numbering.

Again, please note the gap in

W e also have Valerie Naylor,

S u p e r i n t e n d e n t of Theodore Roosevelt National
P a r k , o n t h e p h one with us today.

Valerie,

w o u l d y o u l i k e to say a few words?
M S . N A Y LOR:

Yes.

I am here with

E i l e e n A n d e s , C hief of Interpretation, Public
Affairs.

W e a r e pleased to be part of the

p r o c e s s a n d w e look forward to answering any
q u e s t i o n s t h a t you may have.
M S . S T A FFORD:

Thank you very much.

We

w i l l s t a r t w i t h reverse one, two, and three.
T h e s e d e s i g n s d epict a young Theodore
R o o s e v e l t s u r v e ying the Badlands’ terrain at
a n a r e a n e a r t h e Little Missouri River.

I’ll

n o t e t h a t r e v e r se one is the park’s preferred
d e s i g n , a n d i t is also the design recommended
by the CFA.

H e re is reverse one, reverse two,

a n d r e v e r s e t h r ee.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

166
R e v e r s e s four and eight depict Theodore
R o o s e v e l t ’ s M a l tese Cross Cabin.
and eight.

Here’s four

R e v erse nine, three Sand hill

c r a n e s f l y o v e r the North Unit of Theodore
R o o s e v e l t N a t i o nal Park.
M R . S C A RINCI:
a b o u t t h e c r a n e s?

Can I ask a question

Is this appropriate?

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
it after.

Normally, we would do

I b e lieve the representative is

g o i n g t o r e m a i n on the phone.
M S . S T A FFORD:

Yes.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Let’s do that under

t e c h n i c a l q u e s t ions.
M S . S T A FFORD:
Fort Moultrie.

Finally, moving on to

This is managed as part of

F o r t S u m t e r N a t ional Monument, which was
e s t a b l i s h e d i n 1948.

Fort Moultrie protected

t h e C i t y o f C h a rleston and its strategically
i m p o r t a n t h a r b o r for 171 years, from the
A m e r i c a n R e v o l u tion through World War II.
W h i l e t he Fort was involved in the
f i r s t b a t t l e o f the Civil War, it is the

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

167
F o r t ’ s r o l e i n the American Revolution that
makes it iconic.

Colonel William Moultrie in

t h e S e c o n d S o u t h Carolina Regimen successfully
d e f e n d e d a h a l f -finished palmetto log fort
a g a i n s t n i n e B r itish war ships, marking the
f i r s t d e c i s i v e victory of the Revolution on
June 28, 1776.
T i m S t o ne, Superintendent of Fort
S u m t e r N a t i o n a l Monument, is with us today.
T i m , t h a n k y o u for joining us.

May I ask you

t o s a y a f e w w o rds?
M R . S T O NE:
today.

It’s an honor to be here

I s p e a k pretty loud, so I’ll try to

hold it down.

It was a good overview of Fort

M o u l t r i e a n d i t s importance not only to South
C a r o l i n a a n d C h arleston but also to the United
States.

I t w a s the first real significant

v i c t o r y o f t h e American Revolution.
T h e e v e nt of 1776 that I guess is
s y m b o l i c i s t h e flag was shot out, shot down,
a n d S e r g e a n t J a sper bravely grabbed it and
h e l d i t u p u n t i l they could have another flag

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

168
pole.
T h a t i s a very symbolic image to the
c i t i z e n s o f S o u th Carolina, and the South
C a r o l i n a S t a t e Flag has the palmetto logs,
w h i c h h e l p e d d e feat the British that day, and
M o u l t r i e ’ s b l u e flag with the crescent, so
t h o s e t h r e e e l e ments we felt were the identity
o f F o r t M o u l t r i e and the most important
f e a t u r e s o f t h e Fort.
A n y q u e stions you have, I guess I can
a n s w e r a s w e m o ve on.
M S . S T A FFORD:

Thank you so much.

S t a r t i n g w i t h r everse one, this design depicts
t h e d i s t i n c t i v e silver crescent worn by the
S e c o n d S o u t h C a rolina regimen that garrisoned
F o r t M o u l t r i e i n its 1776 victory over the
British.

T h e s ilver crescent was inscribed

w i t h t h e w o r d “ Liberty,” set against a single
p a l m e t t o l o g r e presenting the use of the
p a l m e t t o i n t h e construction of the fort.
R e v e r s e two.

Sergeant Jasper plants

t h e r e g i m e n t a l flag at Fort Moultrie.

The

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

169
a d d i t i o n a l i n s c ription reads “Liberty.”
R e v e r s e three.

Sergeant Jasper waves

t h e r e g i m e n t a l flag as bombs from British
s h i p s e x p l o d e i n front of him.
R e v e r s e four features a cannon from the
R e v o l u t i o n a r y W ar period as used at Fort
M o u l t r i e i n 1 7 7 6.

The palmetto trees in the

b a c k g r o u n d a r e those used to build the fort.
T h e o p e n c r e s c e nt in the sky is depicted as it
w a s o n t h e o r i g inal Second Regimental Flag of
1776.
R e v e r s e five.

Sergeant Jasper clasps

t h e r e g i m e n t a l flag; cannon fire from British
s h i p s f l y t h r o u gh the air and explode on the
b e a c h a r o u n d h i m.

This is the site liaison’s

f i r s t p r e f e r e n c e and also the recommendation
of the CFA.
R e v e r s e six.

Sergeant Jasper recovers

t h e r e g i m e n t a l flag and returns it while the
B r i t i s h s h i p c o ntinues its attack.

This is

t h e s i t e l i a i s o n’s second preferred design.
R e v e r s e seven.

Sergeant Jasper plants

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

170
t h e r e g i m e n t a l flag and holds it firm as
B r i t i s h s h i p s c ontinue to bomb the fort.
T h a t c o ncludes our design portfolio,
Mr. Chairman.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, April.

B e f o r e w e m o v e into our discussion, I wanted
t o s a y a w o r d a bout the America the Beautiful
Program.

W e h a ve folks from some of the parks

h e r e i n t h e r o o m, others on the phone.
I j u s t want to express to you that this
i s a p r o g r a m t h at we on the Committee have
f o u n d c h a l l e n g i ng, and I think some of the
a r t i s t s h a v e f o und it challenging, too.

I

t h i n k i t m i g h t seem maybe intuitive to some
t h a t w e h a v e b e autiful parks in our country
a n d t h e r e f o r e , it should be really easy to
p i c k s o m e v e r y beautiful pictures that we are
f a m i l i a r w i t h , with the parks and historical
p l a c e s a n d s i m p ly put them on a coin.
T h e i s s ue that really comes into play
h e r e i s w h e n y o u are talking about a coin that
i s e s s e n t i a l l y one inch in diameter and the

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

171
o u t e r r i m i s d e dicated to a template where we
p u t s o m e o f t h e text, you end up with
s o m e t h i n g a l i t tle more than three- quarters of
a n i n c h f o r a n image.
W h e n y o u have the broad panorama of
b e a u t i f u l s t u n n ing views that we are used to,
i t d o e s n ’ t p o r t ray well when you put it on
t h i s s m a l l q u a r ter that has no color, it’s
silver.

Y o u h a ve one color.

At best, with a

c o l l e c t o r c o i n , we make these in a collector’s
v e r s i o n t h a t w e call “proof,” where we
e s s e n t i a l l y h a v e -- I’ll call it two colors.
W e h a v e a p o l i s hed background and we have the
r a i s e d s c u l p t e d elements that typically come
o u t a f r o s t e d w hite.
A t b e s t , we are working with a black
a n d w h i t e i m a g e on a very small disk.

As we

g o t h r o u g h t h i s process, I want to make sure
t h a t t h e f o l k s who are here representing their
n a t i o n a l p l a c e s understand first of all that
t h i s C o m m i t t e e has very much in mind trying to
p i c k t h e b e s t p ossible designs to represent

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

172
y o u r h i s t o r i c p lace or your beautiful park or
w h a t e v e r i t i s that we are looking at today.
T o d o t hat job, I have some amazing
colleagues here.

I have people who have been

p u t o n t h i s C o m mittee because they are
r e c o g n i z e d a s t he best in our country in
numismatic art.

We have a member who is here

b e c a u s e h e i s a n expert on U.S. history.

We

h a v e a n o t h e r m e mber who is simply an expert I
n u m i s m a t i c s , w h o knows coins, and he has known
c o i n s p r e t t y m u ch all his life.

We have

a n o t h e r i n d i v i d ual who is on this Committee
b e c a u s e h e ’ s a n expert in numismatic
peroration.
F o r t h e rest of us who are either
p o l i t i c a l a p p o i ntments or representatives of
t h e p u b l i c , w e are here mostly because we have
a d e e p s e a t e d p assion for numismatics and most
o f u s a r e c o i n collectors and have been for
m o s t o f o u r l i v es.

Some of us who are not

h e r e b e c a u s e w e are the art expert still are
e i t h e r a r t i s t s or have great affinity for the

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

173
arts.
I s a y a ll that because I don’t want
a n y o n e l e a v i n g the room today in the event we
d o n ’ t r e c o m m e n d the design that you felt was
t h e r i g h t o n e f or your historic park or your
n a t i o n a l p a r k o r your forest.

Please know

t h a t w e a r e d o i ng our best to make sure that
t h e p r o d u c t t h a t comes out on the other end is
s o m e t h i n g t h a t we will all be very proud of
a n d w i l l r e p r e s ent your park or your forest in
j u s t a v e r y b e a utiful way.
S o , w i t h that, it is our normal process
t o g o t h r o u g h w hen we have multiple designs
a n d d o a n i n i t i al “culling,” c- u-l-l -i-n-g,
w h e r e w e g o t h r ough the designs and the
C o m m i t t e e e x p r e sses which designs they wish to
focus on.
W e h a v e 79 designs represented here.
A c t u a l l y , t h a t is not right.

We have 30 or 40

d e s i g n s b e t w e e n the four historic or national
p a r k s o r f o r e s t places that we are looking at
today.

W e w a n t to be able to focus on those

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

174
d e s i g n s t h a t w e believe have the highest
p o t e n t i a l t o r e present your place in the most
appropriate way.
W e a r e going to cull through these and
w e a r e g o i n g t o set some aside.

We are going

t o f o c u s o n t h o se that we believe are best
suited.
W i t h t h at, we are going to start with
Shawnee.

T h e m embers, I believe, are familiar

w i t h t h i s p r o c e ss.

I’m going to move through

a n d i f a m e m b e r wants to consider one of these
d e s i g n s , a l l t h ey have to do is indicate so,
a n d i t i s p u t i nto the pile to focus on.
I f w e c ould look at Shawnee National
F o r e s t r e v e r s e design number one.

Is there

i n t e r e s t i n l o o king at this one?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
one aside.

We are setting number

T h e re is no number two.

Number

t h r e e , i s t h e r e interest in number three?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting number three

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

175
aside.

N u m b e r four?
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Is there interest in

number six?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
Number seven?

Place that one aside.

Do we have interest in seven?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Yes, we do.

Okay.

h a v e t w o d e s i g n s to look at for further
discussion.
N o w g o i ng to Cumberland Gap, design
n u m b e r o n e , i s there interest in number one?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
aside.

Setting number one

N u m b e r two?
( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number three?

( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number five?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting five aside.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

We

Capital Reporting Company

176
Number six?
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
Ferry.

Now we go to Harpers

H a r p e r s Ferry number one?
( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number two?

( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Harpers Ferry number

three?
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number four?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number five?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting five aside.

Number six?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . J A N SEN:

Setting six aside.

I think 5A is the next

one.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Yes, 5A.

Is there

interest in 5A?

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

177
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting 5A aside.

Is

t h e r e i n t e r e s t in six?
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number seven?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
t o T h e o d o r e R o o sevelt.

Okay.

That takes us

Number one?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number two?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number three?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
folks.

Culling process,

N u m b e r four?
( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Culling process,

folks.

T h e r e a re no numbers five through

seven.

N u m b e r eight?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting eight aside.

Number nine?

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

178
( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
one aside.

We successfully set

W e will go to Fort Moultrie,

number one.

I n terest in number one?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number two?

( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number three?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
aside.

Setting number three

Four?
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number five?

( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number six?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number seven?

( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
included.

Number seven is

F o r the record, for those who might

w a n t t o k e e p t r ack, what we have to focus on,
a n d I ’ l l g o t h r ough in the same order that I

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

179
j u s t c u l l e d t h e m out.

For Shawnee, we have

d e s i g n s f o u r a n d seven.
w e h a v e t w o , t h ree, six.

For Cumberland Gap,
Harpers Ferry, we

h a v e o n e , t w o , three, four, six, and seven.
S i x d e s i g n s f o r Harpers Ferry.
T h e o d o r e Roosevelt, we have designs
o n e , t w o , t h r e e , four, nine.
T h e o d o r e R o o s e v elt.

We have five for

For Fort Moultrie, we

h a v e o n e , t w o , four, five, six, and seven, so
s i x d e s i g n s f o r Fort Moultrie.
I w i l l ask the Committee members to
l i m i t y o u r d i s c ussion to those designs.
t h e r e a n y t e c h n ical questions?

Are

Donald, do you

have one?
M R . S C A RINCI:

Yes.

For the ranger at

t h e T h e o d o r e R o osevelt National Park, I was
c u r i o u s a b o u t t wo things.

One, what is the

p r o m i n e n c e o f t he log cabin?
f o c u s o f t h e p a rk?
it?

Is it a central

What is the prominence of

W h a t i s i t in relation to the park?
M S . S T A FFORD:

Valerie, did you hear

that question?

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

180
M S . N A Y LOR:

Unfortunately, I couldn’t

h e a r a n y t h i n g f rom that speaker.
M S . S T A FFORD:

I’m sorry.

Mr.

S c a r i n c i , w e w i ll have to get a microphone, if
y o u d o n ’ t m i n d repeating it.

This question

w i l l b e f o r y o u , Valerie, regarding the cross
c a b i n , I b e l i e v e.
M R . S C A RINCI:

Yes.

t o a s k y o u t w o questions.
Scarinci.

Valerie, I’m going
This is Donald

O n e is about the cabin.

Could you

t e l l m e w h a t i s the prominence in the context
o f t h e w h o l e p a rt of the cabin?

Is it the

c e n t r a l r e a s o n people would go there?

I don’t

understand.
M S . N A Y LOR:

It is something that

p e o p l e c o m e t o see while they are in the park
b e c a u s e i t i s a cabin that Roosevelt lived in
e a r l y i n h i s t i me in North Dakota.

However,

i t i s n o t t h e p rominent reason anyone would
c o m e t o t h e p a r k.
M R . S C A RINCI:

Thank you.

The second

q u e s t i o n d e a l s with the birds in design nine.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

181
A r e t h e y m i g r a t ory birds?

Are they native to

the area?
M S . N A Y LOR:
question.

That’s a very good

I t i s honestly difficult for us to

t e l l w h a t s p e c i es of birds these are, but I
u n d e r s t a n d t h e y are Sandhill cranes.

Sandhill

c r a n e s m i g r a t e through just twice a year and
t h e y f l y a t a b o ut 1,000 feet up.

So, you

d o n ’ t e v e r s e e them up close in the park at
all.

T h i s d o e s not depict well for the birds

i n t h i s p a r t i c u lar design.
M R . S C A RINCI:

Can I deduce since

d e s i g n s o n e , t w o and three have this Snake
R i v e r , t h i s S R iver, is that a predominant
f e a t u r e o f t h e park?
M S . N A Y LOR:

Yes, it is.

The Little

M i s s o u r i R i v e r is the feature that connects
t h e t h r e e u n i t s of the park.
i m p o r t a n t f e a t u re.

That is a very

It’s the Little Missouri

R i v e r t h a t c a r v es the Badlands’ scenery that
w e h a v e t h e r e t oday.

It is of course what

b r o u g h t T h e o d o r e Roosevelt to ranch in the

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

182
area.
M R . S C A RINCI:
M S . N A Y LOR:

Great.

Thank you.

Thank you.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Anything further,

Donald?
M R . S C A RINCI:

Not on this.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Are there other

m e m b e r s w h o h a v e questions?
M R . M O R AN:

I have one.

This is aimed

a t r e v e r s e o n e of the Theodore Roosevelt
designs.
Greg.

T h e q uestion is directed toward

G r e g , r e verse one is straight out of a

photograph.

I t may be five percent tweaked,

t h e o t h e r 9 5 i s from a photograph of Theodore
R o o s e v e l t t h a t appears in the David McCullough
b i o g r a p h y , M o r n ings on Horseback.

Is there a

p r o b l e m w i t h t h at?
M R . W E I NMAN:
M R . M O R AN:

Potentially.
I suspect you can get

p e r m i s s i o n f r o m Harvard Libraries; Heather
C o l e i s t h e c o n tact there.

They are not

s t i c k y a b o u t t h at, but we need to be aware

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

183
t h a t i s s t r a i g h t out of a photograph.
M R . W E I NMAN:

The answer is all designs

s h o u l d b e o r i g i nal designs.
M R . M O R AN:

It is not.

M R . W E I NMAN:

All designs are certified

o r w a r r a n t e d a n d certified as original
designs.

I f y o u are saying it is not, then

t h a t i s s o m e t h i ng -M R . M O R AN:

It is not, I mean 95

percent of it -M R . W E I NMAN:

Then we may have to take

it off line.
M R . M O R AN:

Well, it’s liable to be

chosen.
M S . S T A FFORD:

When we have issues or

q u e s t i o n s l i k e this, we have to do due
d i l i g e n c e a n d g o back to the source materials
s u p p l i e d b y t h e artist and obviously look at
t h e o t h e r r e f e r ences.
M R . M O R AN:

I hate to be a stick in the

m u d b u t y o u m i g ht want to table this, the
design.

I h a v e a feeling -- we can fix it if

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

184
a n o t h e r d e s i g n is chosen, but there is a
c h a n c e t h a t w i l l be chosen.
M R . W E I NMAN:

We are going to pull the

materials.
M S . S T A FFORD:

If the design is not

u s a b l e f o r t h a t reason, then we would be
l o o k i n g a t t h e votes garnered in the others.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

I would suggest in

t h i s c a s e t h a t we proceed with our
c o n s i d e r a t i o n s today.

If it happens that we

e n d u p m a k i n g a recommendation for this one,
t h e s t a f f w i l l need to sort that out.

In the

e v e n t w e e i t h e r pick this one and there is not
a p r o b l e m o r w e pick another one and it’s a
m o o t p o i n t , I t hink we want to try to get the
work done today.

If we need to come back to

i t , t h e s t a f f w ill let us know.
M R . M O R AN:

I have a technical

question.
M S . N A Y LOR:

This is the design that we

f e e l b e s t r e p r e sents the park, and I guess was
a l s o t h e C F A ’ s best design, so that needs to

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

185
b e t a k e n i n t o c onsideration.
M S . S T A FFORD:

Thank you.

We

understand.
D R . B U G EJA:

I have a technical

question.
M S . S T A FFORD:
wireless mike?

Can we hand him the

Thank you.

D R . B U G EJA:

Don, if you could look at

C u m b e r l a n d G a p number two, which I believe was
t h e p r e f e r r e d o ne from the CFA.
M S . S T A FFORD:

It is actually the

p a r k ’ s f i r s t p r eference.
D R . B U G EJA:

Don, I think that is going

t o s h o w u p i n p roof, but I worry about whether
t h a t i s g o i n g t o be seen, because mint has a
t e n d e n c y t o f l a tten.

Is there any way to

raise that?
M R . E V E RHART:

Sure.

I think it is

j u s t t h e w a y i t is drawn, it’s very light.
W h e n w e t r a n s f e r it into metal, we will make
s u r e t h a t i s l e gible.
D R . B U G EJA:

In the drawing, it looks

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

186
l i k e i t m i g h t g et washed out.

That’s my only

point.
M R . S C A RINCI:

While we are on

C u m b e r l a n d G a p , the park representative, if I
c a n a d d r e s s t h i s question to the park
r e p r e s e n t a t i v e from Cumberland Gap, could you
t e l l m e t h e p r o minence of the rock?

Is that

s o m e t h i n g t h a t you depict in brochures,
pictures?

I s t hat an important aspect or the

p i v o t a l a s p e c t of the park?
M S . B O R NEMAN:

You are looking at

design -M R . S C A RINCI:

Three, the rock.

M S . B O R NEMAN:

Indian Rock, if you

a c t u a l l y h i k e i nto the Gap, you will see that
rock.

Y o u k n o w , not that many people really

h i k e i n t o t h e G ap itself.

They look at the

G a p f r o m P i n n a c le Overlook and they are
p e e r i n g d o w n i n to it.

Unless a person were

a c t u a l l y t o h i k e into the Gap, they would not
u n d e r s t a n d t h e significance of Indian Rock.
M R . S C A RINCI:

Do you feature it at the

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

187
I n f o r m a t i o n C e n ter or on brochures?

Is it a

central -M S . B O R NEMAN:
prominent.

It is not that

I f we are actually giving a hike

t h r o u g h t h e G a p , we will talk about it.

We

h a v e m e n t i o n e d it in some of our publications,
b u t i t i s n o t t hat pivotal point.
M R . S C A RINCI:
last question.

Thank you.

I have one

Fort Moultrie, if I can

a d d r e s s t h e i n d ividual from Fort Moultrie,
t h e r e i s n o l a n dscape scene depicted in any of
these images.

Is Fort Moultrie big?

Is it a

lot of acres?
M R . S T O NE:

Fort Moultrie, there are

t h r e e d i f f e r e n t periods, so this is the first
period.

T h e r e was a palmetto log fort which

d i s a p p e a r e d f r o m hurricanes.
very long.

It didn’t last

I t was right on the water.

There

m i g h t h a v e b e e n some drawings but there is no
images of it.
M R . S C A RINCI:

I guess what I’m asking

i s i s i t l i k e J amestown?

When you go to

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

188
J a m e s t o w n , i t ’ s a fort.

It’s a location.

Is

that what it is?
M R . S T O NE:

Today you would find an

e a r t h e n o r b r i c k fort that was built from a
later period.
M R . S C A RINCI:
M R . S T O NE:

It’s more of a location?

It’s a location; yes.

M R . S C A RINCI:

Not what I would think

o f a s a v a s t p a rk?
M R . S T O NE:

No.

M R . S C A RINCI:

Thank you.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . J A N SEN:

Erik?

Thank you.

I have two

q u e s t i o n s , o n e related to Shawnee and one to
Fort Moultrie.

Why don’t we start with

M o u l t r i e s i n c e we are there?

Can you give me

s o m e h i s t o r y , l egacy, background on the
crescent?
M R . S T O NE:

The crescent was worn by

G e n e r a l M o u l t r i e who was in charge of the
d e f e n s e , a n d i t denoted the ranking commander.
H e u s e d t h a t c r escent image on a blue flag,

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

189
a n d t h a t b e c a m e their battle flag.
T h a t c r escent symbol is carried through
t o d a y o n t h e S t ate Flag, which is a blue flag,
a n d c r e s c e n t a n d a palmetto tree.

It has a

l o t o f p r o m i n e n ce.
M R . J A N SEN:

I apologize for not being

t h a t f a m i l i a r w ith the South Carolina State
F l a g t o d a y , t h a t crescent exists on the South
C a r o l i n a F l a g t oday with the palmetto foliage
symbol?
M R . S T O NE:

It’s a palmetto tree with

the foliage.
M R . J A N SEN:

Also, I see the crescent

i n t h e u p p e r l e ft-hand corner of the flag in
m o s t o f t h e r e n ditions, and some of them, I
a l s o s e e “ L i b e r ty.”
“Liberty.”

In some, I don’t see

I s “Liberty” as historically

a c c u r a t e a s t h e crescent on the flag?
M R . S T O NE:

No.

That’s one of the

r e a s o n s w e d i d n ’t select those images because
i t h a d “ L i b e r t y ” on the flag.
M R . J A N SEN:

Okay.

Thank you.

Last

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

190
q u e s t i o n i s o n Shawnee.
there?

Can I get some help

I m a g e n umber six shows kind of a rock

b e t w e e n a r o c k and a hard place.

What is the

s i g n i f i c a n c e o f that image?
M S . P A T RICK:

That is a good question.

I t s h o w e d u p i n the portfolio.
D e v i l ’ s S m o k e s t ack.

There are a lot of key

f o r m a t i o n s i n t he rocks.
those.

That is

This is one of

T h i s i s an image that people recognize

a t G a r d e n o f t h e Gods.

They don’t often stop

a n d l o o k a t i t , of course.
M R . J A NSEN:

You can clearly see,

e s p e c i a l l y i n i mage seven, you can kind of see
t h e p r o f i l e o f a camel.
six was about.

I didn’t know what

Thank you very much.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Erik.

We

h a v e a b o u t l e s s than 50 minutes to complete
o u r d i s c u s s i o n here.

Are there any more quick

t e c h n i c a l q u e s t ions before we move into our
evaluation?

G r eg?

M R . W E I NMAN:
earlier point.

I just want to clarify an

I did look up the photograph

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

191
t h a t m i g h t h a v e been an issue with North
Dakota 01.

W e did review the photograph that

M r . M o r a n w a s t hinking about, and we
d e t e r m i n e d t h i s is in fact an original image,
w h i l e m a y b e s i m ilar, there are numerous
p i c t u r e s o f T e d dy Roosevelt on horseback, and
t o s o m e e x t e n t , there is going to be a
f a m i l i a r i t y i n v olved.

We made the

d e t e r m i n a t i o n i t was not a copy.

This is in

f a c t a n o r i g i n a l design.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
helpful.

Thanks, that is very

T h a n k you.

W i t h t h at, we are going to begin our
evaluation.

I t ’s our tradition that if we

h a v e a m e m b e r w ho hails from a state that is
b e i n g h o n o r e d w ith a quarter, we try to start
t h e d i s c u s s i o n with that member.
I n t h i s case, Michael Moran is a
r e s i d e n t o f K e n tucky, so Cumberland Gap.

I am

g o i n g t o a s k h i m to go through all of the four
q u a r t e r s , b u t M ichael, we are going to start
with you.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

192
I ’ m g o i ng to mix it up and come down
a n d s t a r t w i t h Tom and go to his left after
that.

G o a h e a d , Michael.
M R . M O R AN:

Starting with Shawnee, I

p a r t i c u l a r l y l i ke number seven, I like the
p r o s p e c t i v e o f looking down on Camel Rock.

I

t h i n k y o u c a n s ee it there, I think the trees,
t h e f o r e s t s t a t ion around it will be okay on
t h e q u a r t e r , a n d you have the negative space
u p t h e r e t h a t r epresents the head of the
camel.

I t i s my first choice although I also

l i k e n u m b e r f o u r, very close to it.
g o o d u s e o f n e g ative space.

Again,

I don’t think the

b i r d , w h i c h I a ssume is a hawk, will show up
a l l t h a t w e l l o n a quarter.

My choice would

b e n u m b e r s e v e n there.
O n C u m b erland Gap, at this point I’m
g o i n g t o w a r d n u mber six.
is very simple.

The reason for that

Every red blooded Eastern

K e n t u c k i a n i n p articular needs to have a 10
p o i n t b u c k i n t heir pocket.
(L a u g h t er.)

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

193
M R . M O R AN:
design.

Seriously, it is a nice

I t d o e s show the Gap and it does show

t h e h e a d o f t h e deer.
y e t i n t h i s n e w series.

We have not done a deer
It will be awfully

p o p u l a r i n E a s t ern Kentucky.
T u r n i n g to Harpers Ferry, I like design
number three.

It’s iconic.

Anybody who knows

h i s t o r y k n o w s w hat that building looks like.
I t w i l l b e i n s t antly recognizable even on a
quarter.

I ’ m n ot sure I think Jefferson’s

R o c k h a s t h a t m uch to do with it.

I certainly

d o n ’ t t h i n k o f it when I think of Harpers
Ferry.
O n d e s i gn number six, when you go down
t h e r e , y e s , I h ave seen plenty of those
photographs.

T his will be a jumbled up mess

a n d w o n ’ t b e r e cognizable on a quarter.
T u r n i n g to Theodore Roosevelt, Valerie,
I ’ m o n t h e A d v i sory Board at the TRA, so
t h a t ’ s w h y I k n ow some of these photographs.
I t h i n k f r o m l i stening to the talk you are
g o i n g t o w a n t t o have the Little Missouri

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

194
River there.

W hen I think of Theodore

R o o s e v e l t , I d o n’t think of him at this stage
i n h i s l i f e w i t h a walking stick in his hand.
Y o u a r e g o i n g t o find him on horseback.
T h a t i s one reason why I was a stickler
i n r a i s i n g t h e point about the photograph.

It

i s t h e s a m e b u c kskin outfit in the photograph
as on this coin.

That’s okay.

I actually

d o n ’ t h a v e a n y problem with that at all.
I t i s p robably going to be my first
c h o i c e , p a r t i c u larly when you look at number
n i n e , w h i c h w a s one of the ones I originally
l i k e d , t h e S a n d hill cranes don’t have that
m u c h s i g n i f i c a n ce to it, and while the river
i s t h e r e , I t h i nk that shelter structure takes
a w a y f r o m t h e w hole concept of what we are
t r y i n g t o a c c o m plish here.
S o , I ’ m going to vote for number one.
O n F o r t Moultrie, I actually think we
h a v e a w i n n e r o n number one.

I’m not sure --

M a r y , y o u w i l l get your shot at me.
( L a u g h t er.)

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

195
M R . M O R AN:
anything.

I’m not sure “Liberty” does

D o w e have “Liberty” on the front

of the quarter?
U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:
M R . M O R AN:
both sides.

We do.

We don’t need “Liberty” on

I like the idea of the palmetto

a n d t h e c r e s c e n t.

These images of soldiers,

y o u p u t i t o n a quarter and it is going to be
meaningless.
be lost.

T he expression on his face will

T h e d etails on the flag will be

p r e t t y m u c h l o s t unless you get a magnifying
glass.
I c o u l d be convinced to do number four
i n t h a t I t h i n k the negative space there will
a l l o w y o u t o c o mprehend the cannon being from
t h e R e v o l u t i o n a ry War period as well as the
p a l m e t t o t r e e i n the background, although I
r e a l l y l i k e n u m ber one.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Michael.

T h a t w i l l t a k e us to Tom.
M R . U R A M:

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

It

i s t o t a l l y b y a ccident that I would go second,

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

196
b u t n o t a n a t i v e Kentuckian but having gone to
t h e U n i v e r s i t y of Kentucky and married a
K e n t u c k i a n , s o we will keep the Kentucky theme
going here.
I k i n d of agree with Mike on just about
e v e r y t h i n g t h e r e, so I’m not going to
r e i t e r a t e s o m e of those.
s e v e n o n S h a w n e e.
great design.
number two.
on both.

I lean toward number

I think that will be a

On Cumberland, number six or
I don’t know.

I’m up in the air

I d o like number two.

I could go

e i t h e r w a y o n t hat.
O n H a r p ers Ferry, I kind of agree.

I

t h i n k t h e f o r t is iconic and survived, so I
t h i n k t h a t i s t he image there.

Number one and

n u m b e r t w o w i t h the water and the gears and
i m p o r t a n c e o f w ater that was mentioned and the
J e f f e r s o n R o c k , I think they are relevant, but
I t h i n k f o r t h e commemoration, the block house
works well.
F i n a l l y , on the design of the Teddy
R o o s e v e l t , I w o uld agree number one is a much

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

197
m o r e y o u t h f u l a nd much more outward looking as
w e l l a s j u s t t h e appropriate image for that
p e r i o d o f t i m e for Roosevelt.

I would

g r a v i t a t e t o n u mber one there versus some of
the others.
I s e e o n Fort Moultrie, I think my pick
t h e r e i s n u m b e r five.
f l a g a n d s o f o r th.

I like the idea of the

I see number one is a

g r e a t c o n c e p t , but any time I’ve seen the
t r e e , a s w e l l a s the arc, the arc has been
c o u n t e r c l o c k w i s e from what I remember seeing
o n m a n y p a l m e t t o trees and then the arc is
f r o m n o o n t o s i x.
I t j u s t seems like this is tough to
i n t e r p r e t a n d i t is overbearing the branch of
t h e t r e e i n m y thoughts.

It is a great idea

b u t I t h i n k t h e other would more recognize
F o r t M o u l t r i e f rom that respect.
T h a n k y ou, Mr. Chairman.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Tom.

We

w i l l g o t o J e a n ne.
M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:

Thank you, Gary.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

198
O n S h a w n e e N a t i onal Park, I like both the
p i e c e s t h a t w e have chosen, design number four
a n d n u m b e r s e v e n.

However, I think four,

b e c a u s e i t i s k ind of telescoping on the camel
h e a d o f t h e r o c k, it is a little bit more
i n t e r e s t i n g f o r me.

I do like the bird up

t h e r e , a l t h o u g h I’m not sure it is a hawk.
l o o k s m o r e l i k e a vulture to me.

It

That’s my

f a v o r i t e o n e o n that.
C u m b e r l and Gap, I enjoyed listening to
M i c h a e l M o r a n a nd his journey through the Gap.
I l i k e t h e c o n c ept of number three with the
Indian Rock.

I don’t care much for the

footpaths there.

I think it is distracting.

I f t h e r o c k w e r e a little bigger in the
f o r e g r o u n d , i t would have been better.
A s f o r number six, this seems to be the
CFA choice.

I wish the artist that rendered

t h i s b u c k h a d r eally looked at a buck and
u n d e r s t o o d t h a t the front legs and rear legs
s h o u l d b e t h e s ame length.

You know, the

m u s c u l a r p a r t o f that leg is so incorrect.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

199
I f t h i s piece is chosen, I would
r e c o m m e n d t h a t we go back and look at some
g o o d e x a m p l e s o f bucks.

This is not a good

one.
U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:
M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:

She is right.
I love the fact

t h a t t h i s d r a w i ng does give us the river and
t h e G a p b e y o n d the buck.
i n t e r e s t i n g c o n cept.

That is kind of an

That is my comment on

that.
F o r H a r pers Ferry, I think John Brown’s
F o r t i s v e r y i m portant to this park.
h e s i t a t e t o r e c ommend this one.

I

I prefer to

g o t o t h e J e f f e rson Rock, design number four.
I t i s s i m p l e a n d I’m not quite sure about this
e l e v a t e d r o c k , but obviously it is important
to the park.

I understand it has been

e l e v a t e d f o r t h e last 100 years.

I think it

i s a n i c e f e a t u re.
F o r R o o sevelt’s North Dakota Park, I
h a v e t o a g r e e t hat design number one is my
preference here.

I think the river is

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

200
d e p i c t e d q u i t e nicely.

Again, I would like to

h a v e t h e a r t i s t look at the front of a horse a
l i t t l e b e t t e r , look at the fact that the legs
a r e n o t c o r r e c t here, the knee is not in the
right place.

P lease pay attention to those

little details.

Otherwise, it is quite a

lovely design.
F o r F o r t Moultrie, I agree with the CFA
t h a t n u m b e r f i v e is an interesting design.
H o w e v e r , I ’ m c o ncerned about the flag.
s e e m s q u i t e i n t act there.

It

I was wondering if

w e c h o o s e t h i s , we couldn’t ratty up the
b o t t o m t h e r e ; m ake it look like it was in
battle.
D e s i g n number one, again, I think this
c o u l d b e g o i n g along with what we are asking
o u r a r t i s t s t o do, to do something outside the
b o x t h a t i s p o w erful.

I think this could be a

r e a l l y b e a u t i f u lly sculpted piece, maybe the
c r e s c e n t i s a l ittle on the large side, but I
t h i n k i t w o u l d translate into a nice coin.
T h a t ’ s all.

Thank you, Gary.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

201
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Jeanne.

We

w i l l g o t o H e i d i.
M S . W A S TWEET:

Thank you.

For Shawnee,

w e a r e d e b a t i n g between four and seven, very
similar designs.

I have a strong preference

f o r f o u r o v e r s even because the strong
s i l h o u e t t e o f t hat shape when shrunk down to
t h e q u a r t e r i s going to be much more
r e c o g n i z a b l e , i t’s going to stand out, it’s
g o i n g t o b e d i s tinct, very well balanced
n e g a t i v e s p a c e , especially with the shape of
the bird there.

This is going to look great

on the coin.
D e s i g n number seven may make a nice
d r a w i n g b u t i f we had the actual coin, if we
c o u l d s o m e h o w j udge these based on the coins,
n o t t h e d r a w i n g s, I think everyone would
p r e f e r d e s i g n f our, if you just try to imagine
t h e c o i n i n s t e a d of the drawing.
F o r C u m berland Gap, we culled out
d e s i g n n u m b e r o ne but I want to reference it
i n r e l a t i o n t o design number three.

If we had

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

202
s o m e t h i n g i n b e tween these two designs, then
w e w o u l d h a v e a winner.

Design one is too

s i m p l i s t i c a n d design three is too complex.
T h e r o a d i s t o o perfect.

It looks like it was

c o n s t r u c t e d i n s tead of a path.

It has too

m u c h g o i n g o n , too much detail.
symbolic enough.

It’s not

Very close, but no cigar.

D e s i g n number two I can get behind.
I ’ m a l i t t l e c o nfused by the wording and maybe
I s h o u l d h a v e a sked this question earlier.

In

t h e d e s c r i p t i o n s, I’m hearing “Gateway” and
h e r e I a m s e e i n g “Doorway.”

Can you tell me

a n y t h i n g a b o u t that?
M S . S T A FFORD:
liaison, Carol.

I will defer that to our

We have a question about the

d e s i g n n u m b e r t wo, which is your first
p r e f e r r e d d e s i g n, specifically the inscription
“ F i r s t D o o r w a y to the West.”

Is that better

a s “ G a t e w a y ” o r is there a distinction there?
M S . B O R NEMAN:

It is better, “First

D o o r w a y t o t h e West,” because St. Louis
c l a i m e d t h e t i t le of “Gateway to the West.”

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

203
T h a t ’ s t h e b i g distinction right there.
M S . W A S TWEET:
explanation.

Okay.

T hank you.

That’s a good

Although I like this

d e s i g n , t h e o u t line of the Gap itself behind
t h e c h a r a c t e r i s a bit hidden.

It would have

b e e n b e t t e r i f that were a little sharper,
m o r e d i s t i n c t , and distilled down to its
character.

T h i s might be the best of the

group.
I f w e g o forward to number six, which
t h e r e i s s o m e s upport for design number six, I
h a v e a v e r y i m p ortant point on this.

As a

s c u l p t o r o f c o i ns for 27 years, I’ve tried a
n u m b e r o f t i m e s to sculpt a muzzled animal
f a c i n g s t r a i g h t on, no matter how skilled a
s c u l p t o r y o u a r e, this will always look like a
pig.
( L a u g h t er.)
M S . W A S TWEET:
drawing.

It looks fine in the

P l e a s e understand when this is

r e d u c e d t o t h o u sands of an inch in depth, it
w i l l n o t l o o k l ike this drawing.

I will defer

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

204
t o D o n E v e r h a r t , he will back me up on this.
M R . E V E RHART:

I agree with you, Heidi.

I t ’ s k i n d o f a tradeoff because with the
a n t l e r s , t h a t i s really a good angle, so if
y o u t u r n t h e h e ad, you won’t have that.

I

t h i n k t h e d i r e c tion of the head is going to
outweigh that.
look strange.

You are right; it is going to
It would look better in profile

in this case.
M S . W A S TWEET:

If there was strong

s u p p o r t f o r t h i s design, we would really be
f o r c e d t o c h a n g e the design and move the head
t o o n e s i d e o r the other or down in order to
make it work.
M R . E V E RHART:

As long as it is still

i n t h e p o l i s h e d area and set off by that, it
w i l l s t i l l h a v e the essence of the design.
M S . W A S TWEET:

Of course, the anatomy

i s s u e s t h a t J e a nne brought up.
M R . E V E RHART:

Yes, it looks like it

n e e d s s o m e a n a t omy work.
M S . W A S TWEET:

Which we could get.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

It

Capital Reporting Company

205
d o e s n e e d s o m e alterations if we begin to lean
i n t h a t d i r e c t i on.
H a r p e r s Ferry, designs one and two to
m e p r o v o k e a s e nse of drowning.
( L a u g h t er.)
M S . W A S TWEET:
intention.

I’m sure that is not the

D e s ign three, I’m hearing some

s u p p o r t f o r t h i s.

I feel like this building

i s r e a l l y c r o w d ed into the space.

I have a

s t r o n g p r e f e r e n ce for design seven over this
b e c a u s e i t i s m uch more proportioned within
t h e f r a m e w o r k , the angle of the building is
m u c h m o r e e s t h e tically pleasing, and
b u i l d i n g s , e s p e cially brick buildings, show up
w o n d e r f u l l y o n coins.

They are very sharp.

T h e m e t a l r e f l e cts well off them.

This would

m a k e a n i c e l o o king coin.
I d o n ’ t know if we need the wording
“ J o h n B r o w n ’ s F ort.”
don’t.

Maybe we do, maybe we

T h i s w o uld be a really attractive

coin.
I f y o u have a quarter in your pocket, I

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

206
e n c o u r a g e y o u t o bring it out and look at it
a n d k e e p i n m i n d the scale as we look at
d e s i g n n u m b e r s ix.

When I saw this in my

p a c k e t a t h o m e , it was a palm to forehead
slap.

T h i s i s way too much going on on a

coin.
I u n d e r stand the concept of it.

If we

w e r e j u d g i n g p o stcards, yes, let’s do this.
T h i s i s n o t a p ostcard.

This is what we have

b e e n t r y i n g t o rally against.
g o i n g t o b e a b usy jumble.

It is just

The person on the

s t r e e t t h a t p u l ls out a quarter will glance at
t h i s a n d n o t u n derstand what this image is.
e n c o u r a g e t h e g roup to not go in this
direction.
T h e o d o r e Roosevelt.

A lot of support

f o r d e s i g n n u m b er one, and it is a nice
design.

I d o h ave a problem with the way the

head is cut off.

For the size of this

c h a r a c t e r w i t h i n this framework, that kind of
h e a d c u t t i n g o f f and crowding of the shoulder
is not elegant.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

I

Capital Reporting Company

207
A l s o , w hen the image reaches that edge
o f t h e r i m t h e r e, on the drawing that is a
thin line.

O n the sculpture in three

d i m e n s i o n s , t h a t is a beveled edge.

Crowding

i s g o i n g t o b e even more difficult.

It would

b e a v e r y e a s y thing to pull this inward and
t o f i x t h i s p r o blem, and I think that is
e a s i l y a r r i v e d at, but let’s address that if
w e c h o o s e t h i s design.
A l s o , a message to the artist, please
d o n ’ t s h a d e t h e head as if he’s in strong
sunlight.

T h a t doesn’t help with our

s c u l p t o r s a n d i t is misleading to those
j u d g i n g t h e d e s ign.

Keep that in mind when

y o u a r e d r a w i n g these.

We don’t want to see

t h o s e h e a v y c a s t shadows.
are great.

The contour shadows

T h e cast shadows are distracting.

L e t ’ s k e e p t h o s e out.
F o r t M o ultrie.

Here’s another example

o f h o w i m p o r t a n t figurative gesture is, when
t h i s i s d i s t i l l ed down to the small scale,
w h a t w e a r e g o i ng to see is not the detail but

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

208
t h e g e s t u r e o f the body.

Think of an actor on

a s t a g e w h o h a s to use his body to communicate
a n a c t i o n , a f e eling, and often exaggerate
t h o s e g e s t u r e s to tell a story.
D e s i g n number two, I think does a good
gesture.

I r e a lly feel like he’s planting

this flag.

T h e word “Liberty” is not

necessary.

W e ’ re not afraid of having some

o p e n s p a c e o n t hese coins.
breathing room.

It’s nice

We have a lot going on.

H a v i n g s o m e n e g ative space there would be a
nice thing.

I would recommend taking

“ L i b e r t y ” o f f t his.
D e s i g n number four, this is really
attractive.

I like the device of using a

r e p e t i t i v e i m a g e of the trees.
decorative.

It is very

T h e mechanical features of this

w o u l d s h o w u p v ery nicely on a coin.

This is

a r e a l l y n i c e d esign.
N u m b e r five, I’m not a fan of this
design.

I t h i n k the flag is too twisted.

J e a n n e i s r i g h t , it is very intact.

Also, the

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

209
u p w a r d a n g l e o f this character makes his head
l o o k m u c h t o o s mall for the body.

In the

d r a w i n g , b l o w n up on this screen, we can see
i t ’ s a n u p w a r d perspective, but when reduced
d o w n t o t h e c o i n, it is not going to be so
o b v i o u s a n d i t will look like a very small
head.
T h e e x p loding bombs behind him could be
m i s c o n s t r u e d a s just bushes when we have
t e x t u r e o n t h e coin.

I don’t think this is

g o i n g t o s t r i k e as well as one may think by
l o o k i n g a t t h e drawing.
D e s i g n number six, I’m really attracted
to this design.

The details may not be

p e r f e c t a s f a r as the little fine detail, but
t h e o v e r a l l d e s ign here really hits the mark.
W e h a v e t h e g e s ture.
tattered.

The flag is clearly

I t ’ s been through hell.

It’s

broken.
W e h a v e this really interesting device
o f t h e a r e a t h a t he’s standing on being a
negative space.

We have been asking for this

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

210
k i n d o f c r e a t i v ity and here it is, a very
d e c o r a t i v e p a t t ern to the water waves, which
i s g o i n g t o b e a nice reflection for the metal
on the coin.
smoke.

T he ships coming out of the

T h i s i s really a very expressive

d e s i g n a n d m a y b e overlooked in favor of what
w e h a v e b e e n t a lking about.
T h i s i s my favorite design here.
D e s i g n number seven, we haven’t talked
about it much.

This misses on every note.

I

c a n n o t g e t p a s t the anatomy and the body
gesture here.

I really don’t want to say any

more.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Heidi.

B e f o r e I m a k e s pecific comments, I want to ask
a s I s p e a k ; i f you have the sheets here the
C o m m i t t e e w a s g iven, as I speak, if you would
t r y t o k e e p y o u r eye only on the one inch real
s i z e d o w n a t t h e right- hand corner.
I t ’ s n a tural for us when we look at
d e s i g n s t o w a n t to look at detail, and it
l e a n s t o s a t i s f y that urge when you look at

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

211
t h e s e b i g i m a g e s.

I spoke about this briefly

earlier.
T h e b i g image we see up on the screen
a n d e v e n t h i s s even or eight inch image we see
o n t h e p a p e r , t hat is not how this is going to
l o o k o n a n y o f these coins.
g o i n g t o l o o k l ike this.

They are not

They are going to

l o o k l i k e t h e s mall image down in the righth a n d c o r n e r o f these tear sheets.
S o , w i t h that, I’ll start with Shawnee.
W e a r e l o o k i n g at both four and seven.

I’m

g o i n g t o a d v o c a te for number four for the
r e a s o n t h a t i t gives more definition and more
c o n t r a s t t h a n n umber seven.

Therefore, I

t h i n k o n t h e o n e inch scale, it is going to
p r e s e n t i t s e l f with much more impact.
W h e n w e see this on the coin, remember
t h a t i f t h i s i s the circulating version, it is
a l l s i l v e r , i t is a silver color.

The flat

n e g a t i v e b a c k g r ound space is going to be set
o f f w e l l w i t h t he great definition we are
g o i n g t o h a v e t o the rock formation.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

212
I f w e l ook at number seven, you will
s e e t h a t i n a d d ition to the rock formation, we
h a v e o t h e r d e t a il here in the background.

I

k n o w t h e s c u l p t ors can go light on that
b a c k g r o u n d , b u t it’s not going to be negative
space.

T h e r e i s going to be something there

f i l l i n g i t u p a nd it is going to be
d i s t r a c t i n g y o u r focal point away from the
rocks.
W h a t y o u are going to end up with is
s o m e t h i n g t h a t is a little more -- if you can
g o w i t h m e o n t his -- gray.

It is not going

t o b e a s m u c h d efinition and as much impact
f o r t h i s i m a g e as compared to number four.
I f y o u look at these images as one inch
r e n d e r i n g s d o w n in the right- hand corner, I
t h i n k y o u w i l l see what I’m talking about
there.
I f w e m ove on to Cumberland Gap, we
h a v e t h r e e i m a g es here to look at.

I support

t h e l i a i s o n ’ s c hoice here of number two.

If

i t ’ s p o s s i b l e , and I don’t know if it would be

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

213
a c c u r a t e t o d o it, based on where this
g e n t l e m a n m a y b e standing, if there is any way
t o m a k e h i m a p p ear that the horizon is just a
l i t t l e b i t l o w e r, so there is an opportunity
t o g i v e a l i t t l e more definition to what would
b e h i s l e f t s h o ulder.
T h e r e i s already some good definition
u p a r o u n d t h e h at and his face and his right
shoulder.

H e r e again, we have some great

n e g a t i v e s p a c e up on the top of the image.

If

w e c o u l d s c o o t that up just a little bit more,
I t h i n k t h a t w o uld help this design.
I l i k e this design because when you
l o o k a t i t a s a one inch coin; you can still
u n d e r s t a n d t h i s is a pioneer looking man with
a rifle.

I t i m mediately tells a story to the

p e r s o n w h o v i e w s it.

They don’t have to guess

a b o u t w h a t t h i s is, at least to a certain
extent.

I l i k e this design.
I f w e l ook at number three, I think

t h i s i l l u s t r a t e s what I have been talking
about.

T h e r e i s not a lot of opportunity for

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

214
n e g a t i v e s p a c e here.

When you get down to one

i n c h o f m e t a l a nd it is all silver, all this
l o w e r p a r t i s g oing to be very hard for the
n a k e d e y e t o r e ally interpret.
I t h i n k if you got out a jeweler’s loop
a n d y o u l o o k e d at it, you’d say wow, okay, I
r e a l l y t h i n k a l l this detail is great.

Our

s c u l p t o r s a n d t he whole process of taking a
s c u l p t a n d p u t t ing it down to a die is really
l i g h t y e a r s a h e ad of where it certainly has
b e e n i n t h e p a s t, and we are able to get a lot
of detail in.
T o t h e naked eye, you are not going to
s e e a l o t o f t h at.

For most Americans, as the

c h a n g e g o e s f r o m the cash register, over the
c o u n t e r , i n t o y our hand, and in your pocket,
t h a t i s n o t g o i ng to be an opportunity for you
t o i m m e d i a t e l y interpret something out of this
design.
I t ’ s g o ing to appear like a lot of just
s i l v e r k i n d o f undulations, and you are not
g o i n g t o b e s u r e of what it is.

I think there

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

215
i s g o o d r e a s o n not to pick number three.
I f y o u look at number six, I agree with
s o m e o f t h e c o m ments, and particularly
J e a n n e ’ s c o m m e n ts are very impactful for me
b e c a u s e I k n o w a lot of her art work deals
with animals.

I can tell.

o n s c u l p t i n g o f animals.

I’m not an expert
I can tell myself

t h e a n a t o m y h e r e is challenged.
B a c k o n the one inch version again, we
h a v e a f a i r l y h eavy black line that attempts
t o o u t l i n e t h i s buck, but you know what, when
t h a t b e c o m e s a silver colored coin, there is
no line there.

What happens is it bleeds into

t h e b a c k g r o u n d and especially in the collector
v e r s i o n o f t h i s , there is not going to be a
l o t o f d e f i n i t i on, it’s not going to be
s o m e t h i n g t h a t is going to present well.
T h e t h i ng that will present the best on
h e r e a r e g o i n g to be the antlers because you
a r e g o i n g t o h a ve some negative space behind
it.

I t h i n k w e can do better, and I think we

c a n d o b e t t e r w ith number two.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

216
W e w i l l go on to Harpers Ferry.

You

k n o w , I r e a l l y wanted to like number one, and
H e i d i r u i n e d i t for me.
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . J A N SEN:

Exactly.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

But you know what, she

d i d r u i n i t a n d I’m glad she did because I
d o n ’ t k n o w , t h e re is just a lot going on here.
I l i k e t h e o r i g inal approach.

I like it’s

n o v e l i n t h e w a y it’s presented here.
t h e c l o s e u p o n the rifle.

I like

I like the gears.

I t h i n k i t g i v e s an opportunity to see
s o m e t h i n g t h a t we haven’t seen in this series.
I d o n ’ t know, the water, the stylized
w a t e r l o o k s a l ittle too Expo ’74, early 1970s
k i n d o f j i v e g o ing on.
I ’ m m o v ing away from both one and two.
Just a minute.
number six.

I want to make a comment on

M y colleagues have mentioned this

already.
I r e a l l y want everyone who has this
s h e e t i n f r o n t of you and the opportunity to

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

217
l o o k a t t h e o n e inch version, and I hate to
h a r p o n t h i s , b ut we are not going to produce
t h i s c o i n , t h i s seven or eight inch coin is
n o t g o i n g t o h a ppen.
W h a t i s going to happen is this one
i n c h c o i n r i g h t down here, and you cannot tell
m e w i t h y o u r n a ked eye that you are going to
m a k e a l o t o f s ense out of that.

You’re going

t o b e d i s a p p o i n ted with this image when it is
minted.
T h a t i s the last thing I know this
Committee wants.

We want you to have a coin

t h a t i s g o i n g t o represent Harpers Ferry well,
a n d i s s o m e t h i n g you will be proud of and
s o m e t h i n g t h a t will immediately be
r e c o g n i z a b l e b y the people who visit Harpers
Ferry.
I u s u a l ly like to stay away from
building.

I ’ m probably going to go with

n u m b e r s e v e n a t this point because I think in
t h e c a s e o f a b uilding, this is an interesting
one.

I t h i n k t here is going to be some great

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

218
n e g a t i v e s p a c e that is going to help the
viewer see it.

I will most likely be

s u p p o r t i n g n u m b er seven.

I’m going to be

l i s t e n i n g c a r e f ully to my colleagues on some
c o m m e n t s t h e y m ay have.
O n n u m b er four, I will just make a
c o m m e n t h e r e v e ry quickly.

Number four is

a n o t h e r c a s e w h ere we can put that up on the
s c r e e n a n d a l s o look at the one inch version
on the sheet.
B e c a u s e of the background on number
f o u r , t h e r o c k is not going to stand out.
A g a i n , y o u h a v e a line around that rock that
a t t e m p t s t o t e l l you on this drawing that
t h e r e i s d e f i n i tion there, but I don’t think
y o u a r e g o i n g t o have that same definition
b e c a u s e y o u ’ r e not going to have the sharp
b l a c k a n d w h i t e or even dark gray shadowing
you have here.

You are going to have a

monotone silver.

It is just not going to

p r e s e n t v e r y w e ll.
W e r u l e d out 5A.

If you wanted to go

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

219
w i t h t h e r o c k , that would have been a better
one.

T h e r e , y o u have a lot of negative space.

W e ’ r e n o t r e a l l y considering that one.
W i t h t h at, I’ll go to Theodore
Roosevelt.

I ’ v e been to Theodore Roosevelt

National Park.

I’ve been there a couple of

t i m e s w h e n I l i ved in Montana, which is just
next door.

I w ent away from my visit there

w i t h s o m e d e f i n ite impressions of the rolling
hills.

I t w a s in the middle of August when I

w a s t h e r e b o t h times.

There were some rock

o u t c r o p p i n g ’ s I saw, and I saw a lot of
bison.
I g u e s s I’m surprised not to see bison
p r e s e n t e d h e r e at all.

On the other hand, I’m

n o t s u r e h o w I feel about that because we have
d o n e a l o t o f b ison.
F o r m e , these Theodore Roosevelt images
l o o k a l i t t l e a wkward to me and I can’t sort
it out.

I ’ m n o t sure why I’m having trouble

w a r m i n g u p t o t hem.

At this point, I don’t

h a v e a f a v o r i t e among the designs that we have

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

220
b e e n p r e s e n t e d here for Theodore Roosevelt.

I

n e e d t o l i s t e n to my colleagues a little bit
m o r e b e f o r e I m ade a decision.
T h a t t a kes me to Fort Moultrie.

I

i n i t i a l l y l i k e d number one, but the more I
l o o k a t i t , t h e more I’m just not really sure
h o w t h a t i s g o i ng to be interpreted by the
a v e r a g e p e r s o n who may receive this in change.
I t ’ s a little too -- I don’t know.

I

h a v e a h a r d t i m e understanding what that might
b e , i f y o u ’ r e n ot really up on Fort Moultrie.
I f I l o ok at number two, I like number
two.

A g a i n , i f you look at the one inch

v e r s i o n , b e c a u s e of the negative space, I
t h i n k i t i s g o i ng to be fairly easy to
u n d e r s t a n d t h a t this is a soldier from some by
gone era.

M o s t Americans aren’t going to

u n d e r s t a n d i m m e diately what Fort Moultrie is
about.
I ’ m w o n dering about the flag and if
t h a t i s g o i n g t o be discernable.

I do find

t h e r e a r e s o m e elements with this design that

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

221
I f i n d a t t r a c t i ve.

I think on the one inch

p a l l e t , i t a t l east would have some definition
to it.
I l i k e the cannon in number four.
H o w e v e r , i f w e were to pick this one, I would
w a n t t o t a l k t o the Committee about where the
trees should be.

Right now, being kind of

m o v e d t o w a r d t h e center of the cannon, it
c r e a t e s a n i n t e resting interplay, but doesn’t
f e e l c o m f o r t a b l e.

I’m not sure if maybe the

t r e e s s h o u l d b e moved over a little to the
left.

I f t h e y were, this might have a whole

d i f f e r e n t f e e l to it.
W e h a v e n’t really -- memory doesn’t
s e r v e m e t h a t w e have ever really done a
cannon.

W e h a v e seen cannons in other coins

a n d c o m m e m o r a t i ve’s and even I think we have
s e e n a c o u p l e o f cannons for this series, but
I d o n ’ t t h i n k w e have picked one.
I l i k e the perspective on this.
t h e g r e a t n e g a t ive space.

I like

There would be some

g r e a t d e f i n i t i o n and contrast.

I think that

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

222
w o u l d b e s o m e t h ing an ordinary American would
u n d e r s t a n d i m m e diately, that this is an old
time cannon.
N u m b e r five, I like it, but I’m
w o n d e r i n g i f t h e exploding terra behind the
g e n t l e m a n m i g h t confuse the image.
a r e t a l k i n g a b o ut one inch here.

Again, we
I’m not sure

y o u a r e r e a l l y going to understand what is
g o i n g o n b e h i n d him except it is taking some
n e g a t i v e s p a c e away that might help further
d e f i n e t h e s e r g eant and his valiant effort to
k e e p t h e f l a g r aised.
I ’ m u n s ettled on which design to pick
f o r F o r t M o u l t r ie, so I’m going to listen some
m o r e t o m y c o l l eagues and will have to make a
d e c i s i o n a s w e conclude.
S o , w i t h that, I’m going to go to Erik.
M R . J A N SEN:

Thanks, Gary.

I’m finding

a n u m b e r o f t h e se to be difficult decisions,
u n f o r t u n a t e l y , difficult because I’m not
f e e l i n g l i k e I have a lot of good choices.
H a v i n g started on that optimistic note,

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

223
w i t h S h a w n e e , I definitely think the thought
h e r e i s b e t w e e n four and seven.

If I could

g e t s e v e n u p f o r a moment, I think you screw
u p t h e b a l a n c e but I think on the backdrop,
t h e a r e a b e t w e e n say 7:00 and 9:00 that has
a l l t h e h i l l s i n the background, if that were
t u r n e d i n t o j u s t plain negative space, you
m i g h t g e t t h e k ind of contrast that number
f o u r o t h e r w i s e brings.

It also is going to

s c r e w u p t h e b a lance of the drawing.
S o , h a v ing said all of that, I have no
c h o i c e b u t g o f or four because I don’t have a
better option.
M o v i n g to Cumberland Gap, I appreciate
t h e c o m m e n t s h e re.

I think design number six

i s a l m o s t a d e f ault design.

We weren’t sure

w h a t t o p u t t h e re, so let’s put an animal
there.

I r e a l l y opted out of design number

s i x b e c a u s e t h e view by the animal of every
s c u l p t o r i n t h i s room has said that is a
problem.

I f t h at is a problem; that is a no

vote for me.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

224
T h e n I look at my remaining choices.
T h r e e i s j u s t t oo busy.

It is a picture in

metal.

I w o n ’ t vote for a picture in metal.

Sorry.

I a m l e ft with design number two.

If

I c a n g e t t h a t up, I actually like design
n u m b e r t w o w i t h the lettering.

I am wondering

i f t h a t l e t t e r i ng could go incuse?
M R . A N T ONUCCI:

Not into the field like

t h a t , y o u a r e g oing to run into problems.
M R . J A N SEN:

It’s going to run into

p r o d u c t i o n p r o b lems?
M R . A N T ONUCCI:

Yes.

There are

s t a r v a t i o n i s s u es with that.
M R . J A N SEN:
positive relief.

Okay.

It stays as a

It needs to be strong.

I

w o u l d l o v e t o s ee an accentuation of the Gap
t h e r e , l o w e r t h e left.

Here we have

e s s e n t i a l l y d e s ign number six with a person
i n s t e a d o f a n a nimal.

Let’s be honest about

it, I think.
M y q u e s tion to the historians involved
h e r e i s i s t h a t the right hat, the right cape,

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

225
i s t h e r i g h t g u n.

Understood, we have a

m u l t i p l e e p i s o d e in history kind of context
here.

I d o n ’ t know what is right.

I’m not

s u r e w h e t h e r t h at’s a Spanish conquistador,
w h e t h e r t h a t i s somebody going to a South
Carolina beach.

I’m not sure what that is.

M S . S T A FFORD:

Carol, can we call upon

y o u t o c o m m e n t upon the CCAC member’s question
r e g a r d i n g d e s i g n two featuring the
frontiersman?

The question is if the hat and

cape is correct.
M S . B O R NEMAN:

Yes, that hat is what

t h e p i o n e e r s w o uld have been wearing, a tricornered hat.
close.

That hunting frock is pretty

W e c a n provide some more details.

W h e n w e f i r s t l ooked at it, it was our
u n d e r s t a n d i n g m ore so that these were rough
d e s i g n s , s o w e commented on the overall design
v e r s u s t h e s p e c ific items.

It might need a

t a d b i t o f c l e a ning up.
M R . J A N SEN:

Well, I’m not sure where

t h e c l e a n i n g n e eds to be but it feels like it

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

226
n e e d s a l i t t l e bit somewhere in there to be
h i s t o r i c a l l y a c curate.

My vote is for two is

b e c a u s e I h o n e s tly can’t vote for anything
else.
W h e n I go to Harpers Ferry, Heidi, you
r e a l l y w r e c k e d it for me here as well.
t h i n k i n g g o s h , we have a symbol.

I was

We have

H a r p e r s F e r r y , which is just multiple major
e v e n t s i n h i s t o ry.

Gosh, I hate to isolate on

o n e i t e m , a n d h ere we have a symbol with
w a t e r , i n d u s t r y , and with conflict, and
s u d d e n l y i t w a s a drowning man.

I’m crushed,

but thank you.
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . J A N SEN:

I’m going to vote for

d e s i g n n u m b e r s even because I don’t have a
better choice.
W h e n i t comes to Theodore Roosevelt, I
t h i n k n u m b e r o n e is a good choice.

I relate

e n t i r e l y t o w h y do we have his scalped.

He

r e a l l y n e e d s t o have a little bit of negative
s p a c e a n d a c o m plete head within that negative

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

227
s p a c e i n o r d e r to make this thing work in my
mind.
I r e a l l y don’t understand why the
a r t i s t c h o s e t o bleed and clip the image where
t h e y d i d u n l e s s they simply didn’t want to
d r a w t h e b a c k h alf of the horse.
I d o t h ink, although I have been there
a s w e l l , a n d t h ere are bison everywhere, I
t h a n k t h e a r t g roup here in general for not
g i v i n g u s o u r 1 50 t h bison- tennial coin.
I a p o l o gize.

I really do.

I try to

m a k e m y c o m m e n t s a little higher quality than
that.

I ’ m n o t sorry at all, actually.
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . J A N SEN:

Fort Moultrie.

l i k e d t h e s y m b o l in number one.

I actually

I don’t think

m y c o m m e n t s a r e going to win any support here,
b u t I ’ m g o i n g t o make them anyway.
I t h i n k if that crescent were raised
a n d s h r u n k s l i g htly so as to show a stalk on
t h e f o l i a g e , i t would be more recognizable as
t h a t v e r y , v e r y distinctive frond, if I can

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

228
u s e t h a t w o r d , or leave.
I w o u l d really love to see that happen
in one.

I t h i n k it is a symbol as opposed to

a picture.

A s the answer to my earlier

t e c h n i c a l q u e s t ion reinforces, I think, it
t i e s i t i n t o t h e South Carolina flag, and
t h e r e f o r e t h e b ig legacy of the state, which I
t h i n k w e a l w a y s need to think in terms of, how
t h e c o i n w i l l s core to the local
r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s and the people that will
i d e n t i f y w i t h i t.
H a v i n g said all that, design number
f o u r i s i n t e r e s ting, and Gary Marks’ comments
n a i l e d i t f o r m e.

I wasn’t comfortable with

w h e r e t h a t t r e e is, and now I realize what
t h a t i s , t h a t ’ s a backfire, where the fuse
g o e s i n t h e c a n non, that’s an explosion
upward.

T h e c a nnon ball stuck, so the cannon

a c t u a l l y b l e w u p out the back.
S o m e h o w , I like, as Heidi described,
t h e v e r y s t r o n g contrast between that cannon
a n d a l l t h e n e g ative space around it.

I think

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

229
t h e t r e e s n e e d to be moved so we don’t have
t h i s r e a l l y u n f ortunate coincidence of
l o c a l i t y b e t w e e n a tree or an explosion, I’m
not sure.
I f y o u ’ re going to put a person on
h e r e , I ’ m g o i n g to follow Heidi’s lead and say
s i x i s a b e t t e r choice than five.

Don’t be

c o n f u s e d b e t w e e n the different style of the
art here.

D e s i gn number five basically being

a p e n a n d i n k s tyle.
a c h a r c o a l s t y l e.

Design six being more of

Neither of those

d i f f e r e n c e s w i l l carry through into the actual
quarter itself.
I t h i n k the physical body motion, the
n e g a t i v e s p a c e , the tattered nature of that
f l a g , c o m e f o r t h much better in six.

So, I

e n d u p w i t h o n e , four, six combination, if you
score baseball.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . J A N SEN:

Are you done?

I’m done.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you.

Thank you, Erik.

w i l l t a k e u s d o wn to Mary.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

This

Capital Reporting Company

230
M S . L A N NIN:

I’m trying to make things

a s s i m p l e a s I possibly can.
f o u r f o r S h a w n e e.
negative space.
bird.

I like number

I like the use of the
It doesn’t bother me with the

O n e o f t he things I liked about it is

h o w s m a l l t h e t rees are in comparison to the
r o c k f o r m a t i o n , which gives you the impression
o f r e a l l y h o w m assive it is and why it is so
i c o n i c f o r t h e park.
O n C u m b erland Gap, this is difficult.
T h e s t a k e h o l d e r s liked number two.

I agree

w i t h w h a t p e o p l e have said, if we can kind of
s e p a r a t e t h a t l eft shoulder a little bit from
t h e G a p , m a k e t he “First Doorway to the West”
a l i t t l e m o r e p rominent and check the
h i s t o r i c a l a c c u racy of the dress.

I would put

m y v o t e i n w i t h that.
I ’ v e s e en enough deer in my lifetime
t h a t I d o n ’ t n e cessarily need to see one on a
coin.

S o , t h e r e you go.
W e ’ r e g oing to get to Harpers Ferry.

T o m e , I l i k e t he cleanness of design number

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

231
three.

I t ’ s s i mple.

It’s a building.

It’s

great.

P e o p l e are going to recognize it.

The

J e f f e r s o n R o c k thing, I thought was just in
a l l t h r e e i t e r a tions just kind of messy to me.
T h e y j u s t d i d n ’ t do much for me.
T h e o d o r e Roosevelt.
interesting.

This is pretty

I don’t know how many of you

h a v e b e e n w a t c h ing the PBS series on the
R o o s e v e l t ’ s - - I really like number three, and
I ’ l l t e l l y o u w hy.

Look at the angle of his

e l b o w a n d l o o k at the angle of the river.
g e t t o t a l l y a w a y from drawing an animal.

You
It

i s n ’ t T h e o d o r e Roosevelt and his horse that is
t h e n a t i o n a l p a rk, it is Theodore Roosevelt.
Y o u s e e all of his head.

I don’t know

w h a t w e c a n d o about the shading for the hat.
S o m e b o d y e l s e c an deal with that a little bit
b e t t e r t h a n I c an.

It shows him sort of in

h i s f r o n t i e r m o de.

It’s more about the man

t h a n t h e m a n s i tting on the horse.

I just

l i k e t h e e c h o o f the crook in the elbow and
t h e c r o o k i n t h e river.

I thought that was

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

232
r e a l l y i m p o r t a n t.
F o r t M o ultrie.
one.

I would pick number

I r e a l l y like the reverse of that.

If

w e t a k e “ L i b e r t y” off, I don’t necessarily
t h i n k w e n e e d t he stem of the frond at all.

I

j u s t t h i n k t h a t is a really strong design.
T h a t b e ing said, I don’t think we do
r e a l w e l l w i t h explosions.

We have bombs

c o m i n g i n t h a t look like comets, double
comets.

W e h a v e other things -- number seven,

s o m e o n e i s g o i n g to look at that and say oh,
l o o k , a s t a r i n the middle of that, what is
that.

I t i s j u st too much stuff going on.
T h e s t a keholders seem to like number

two.

I t h i n k t hat is a very strong image,

a l t h o u g h t h a t w ould be my third image.

I

w o u l d p r e f e r n u mber four, moving the trees,
a g a i n l i k e e v e r yone else said, a little bit to
the left.

F r o m purely a design standpoint, I

a m g o i n g t o h a v e to vote for number one.
j u s t l i k e t h e w ay it looks.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Mary.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

I

Capital Reporting Company

233
M i c h a e l B u g e j a , if you could grab a mike.
D R . B U G EJA:

Thank you.

Just a few

q u i c k r e m a r k s o n the state park designs.
T h e s e w e r e i n s p ired by the State Quarter
P r o g r a m , w h i c h had a huge compendium of images
f r o m w h i c h t o d raw.

It had culture,

l a n d m a r k s , c u i s ine.

It had state flags, state

b i r d s , h i s t o r i c events.

The compendium of

images was huge.
W e w e n t to the territories and it was
l e s s h u g e a n d e ven though they had perhaps
g e o g r a p h i c a l l y as many images in their
c o m p e n d i u m , t h e y were not very well known
nationally.
W h e n y o u get down to the state
q u a r t e r s , y o u a re really limited because you
h a v e v e r y f e w i mages in the compendium that
a r e o t h e r t h a n landmarks, flora, fauna, and
p e r h a p s s o m e h i story.
T h e d o m inant medium of the state parks
f o r o v e r a c e n t ury now has been the postcard.
W h e n y o u t a k e a look at the designs of each of

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

234
t h e s e , i n S h a w n ee, you have six of six that
are postcards.
of five.

In Cumberland, you have three

H a r p e rs Ferry, six of eight, and

R o o s e v e l t , y o u have three of six, and in Fort
M o u l t r i e , y o u h ave none.
I t ’ s v e ry interesting to me because it
s u g g e s t s t h a t o ur artists need to look deeper
w h e n d e p i c t i n g the state parks.

For instance,

I k n o w s o m e o f the parks have state flags.
Y o u m i g h t w a n t to look and see what the images
are there.
I f i t l ooks like a postcard, if you
c o u l d b u y a p o s tcard, if you can imagine it a
p o s t c a r d , i t s h ould be eliminated.

We already

have postcards.
L e t ’ s g o really quickly to Shawnee, and
t h e o n l y o n e l e ft -- they are all postcards.
T h e o n l y o n e l e ft for me is number four.
r e a s o n w h y i s i t is a landmark and a redt a i l e d h a w k , w h ich is a magnificent bird.
I t ’ s s t i l l a p o stcard but it is something
p e o p l e w o u l d r e member.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

The

Capital Reporting Company

235
I f y o u go to Cumberland Gap, number two
i s m y h a n d s o n favorite.
concerns me.

Number six really

I ’m concerned not only about the

d e e r b u t i t i s almost a hunter’s stamp,
b e c a u s e t h e d e e r takes precedent over
Cumberland Gap.

You don’t see this, for

i n s t a n c e , i n S h awnee, where the red- tailed
h a w k d o e s n ’ t t a ken prominence over the
scenery.
S o , t o me, this is -- you can see a
d e e r l i k e t h a t in West Virginia, in Kentucky,
i n I o w a , a l t h o u gh not so much with the hills,
b u t y o u c o u l d c ertainly see that in the Black
H i l l s o f S o u t h Dakota, which is not too far.
I t i s n o t u n i q u e to the Cumberland Gap, which
is my point.
S o , n u m ber two gets my unqualified
support.
W h e n y o u take a look at Harpers Ferry,
n u m b e r o n e a n d number two have just really
s t r a n g e i c o n o g r aphy.

I mean the symbols there

t o m e a r e s a y i n g so many different things, you

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

236
a l m o s t h a v e a s t rology symbols and Second
A m e n d m e n t s y m b o ls, which to me is frightening.
( L a u g h t er.)
D R . B U G EJA:
say.

That is what the symbols

I a d m i r e the fact it is not a postcard.

Y o u w o u l d n ’ t s e e that in a postcard, would
you?

T h e r e s t of them, you would.

I’m left

w i t h t h e o n l y h istoric one I can go to, and
t h a t i s W e s t V i rginia seven.
I w o r k e d for 18 years at Ohio
U n i v e r s i t y , i t ’ s 15 miles from the West
Virginia Border.

There is just so much more

t o H a r p e r s F e r r y than what we had here in
these designs.

I’m left with number seven.

I f w e g o to Theodore Roosevelt, to me,
n u m b e r o n e i s f ine.
or number two.

I’m fine with number one

Number three seems like he’s

s a l u t i n g , b u t I think he’s covering his eyes,
e v e n t h o u g h h e has a hat on.

I can’t figure

o u t w h a t t h a t i s.
I t h i n k number one is my preferred.
T h e b o t t o m t h r e e are postcards again.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

237
L e t ’ s g o down to Fort Moultrie.

It is

i m p o r t a n t i f w e are going to choose a design
o f F o r t M o u l t r i e, not to choose one that has
t h e w o r d “ L i b e r ty” in it, because “Liberty” is
o n t h e o b v e r s e , and we do not want to repeat
m o t t o ’ s t h a t h a ve to be there by congressional
design.
T o m e , number two is one of my
favorites.
six.

A c t ually, my favorite is number

L e t ’ s g o to number two.

Number two

n e e d s t o g e t r i d of the word “Liberty.”
b e a u t i f u l , i t ’ s forceful.
I t h a s d e t e r m i n ation.
history.

It’s

It has movements.

It is an embodiment of

W e c a n’t repeat the motto of

“ L i b e r t y ” w h i c h is on the obverse of the state
quarter.
I f w e g o to number six, number six, I
h a v e n ’ t s e e n a design like this in such a long
time.

T h e r e i s movement.

T h e r e i s m u s c u l ature.

There is wind.

There is determination.

T h e r e i s n e g a t i ve space.

To me, it’s a little

d i f f e r e n t s t y l i stic design, but it has

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

238
c a p t u r e d m y a t t ention and I’ll be saying that
o n e i s m y f a v o r ite.
T h a n k y ou, Mr. Chairman.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Michael.

I ’ l l g o t o R o b e rt.
M R . H O G E:

Thank you, Gary.

I have to

s a y t h a t s o m e o f these are really kind of
d i s a p p o i n t i n g t o me.

The Shawnee National

F o r e s t , i t s e e m s to me if you regard just
t h e s e i m a g e s , i t should be called the Shawnee
N a t i o n a l R o c k L and.
R o c k s d on’t do very well on coins, if
y o u t h i n k i n t e rms of the New Hampshire state
q u a r t e r - - l e t ’ s not think about it -- it’s an
u n f o r t u n a t e k i n d of thing to have selections
t h a t o n l y d e a l with these rock formations.
A s I ’ v e pointed out before, the Garden
o f t h e G o d s i s an extremely famous landmark
s p o t i n C o l o r a d o, where one of the formations
i s C a m e l R o c k , it looks almost like this, so
t h e r e i s a b i t of confusion here.

It’s

u n f o r t u n a t e t h e re were not other parts of the

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

239
w i l d e r n e s s a r e a s that might have been
selected.
I r e a l l y can’t advocate any one of
t h e s e , a l t h o u g h I would have to say number
f o u r w o u l d c o i n the best, maybe look the best.
F o r C u m berland Gap, again, these are a
d i s a p p o i n t m e n t to me.

I kind of would prefer

n u m b e r t w o , w h e re you see the padre carrying
the rifle.

H e ’ s not someone that’s shooting

t h a t r i f l e b e c a use he has no powder flask, for
o n e t h i n g , a n d he doesn’t have much in the way
o f r i f l e e q u i p m ent.

Also, his garments, I’m

s u r e , w o u l d h a v e been fringed if he were an
a c t u a l f r o n t i e r sman, because that was always
d o n e b e c a u s e o f water and moisture.
A g a i n , I agree the deer overpowers the
i m a g e r y i n n u m b er six.

Just a disappointment.

F o r H a r pers Ferry, I think clearly
n u m b e r s e v e n p r obably has to be the best one.
J e f f e r s o n R o c k looks like a megalithic grave
site.

T h e o t h e r designs are really too much

c u r t a i l e d , n u m b er six and number three.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

240
I l i k e number one and two because of
t h e g r e a t a c c u r acy in the rendition of the
H a r p e r s F e r r y r ifle, the Model 1855.

However,

t h e h a n d l o o k s like it is the hand of a giant
o f s o m e k i n d h o lding on to this thing.
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . H O G E:
like the water.

A drowning giant.

I don’t

It is a combination of styles

t h a t a r e j u s t c ompletely unmatchable one to
the other.

I t hink something better could

h a v e b e e n d o n e using a Harpers Ferry rifle.
T h i s i s a very accurate rendition, and
t h e g r e a t i m p o r tance to Harpers Ferry was it
w a s o n e o f t h e two Federal arsenals.

This is

w h y i t c h a n g e d hands repeatedly during the
C i v i l W a r , a n d was a bone of contention.

That

i s w h y J o h n B r o wn went there and why it is an
i m p o r t a n t h i s t o ric site to visit today.
A l i t t l e postcard image of number six
i s j u s t a l o s e r for a coin.

This is

troublesome.
I l i k e the three images of Teddy

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

241
Roosevelt.

I l ike number one very much

b e c a u s e o f t h e image of him on horseback.
H o w e v e r , I h a v e a question here.

Was

R o o s e v e l t l e f t -handed or right- handed?
M S . L A N NIN:
M R . H O G E:

Right- handed, I think.
Horsemen ordinarily hold

r e i n s i n t h e i r left hands in Western style
riding.
M R . M O R AN:

It may be but in the

p h o t o g r a p h , i t is exactly like that.
M R . H O G E:

Or is it a reverse

photograph?
M R . W E I NMAN:

There are multiple

p h o t o g r a p h s o f Teddy Roosevelt on horseback.
I t i s s o m e t h i n g we can check.
M R . H O G E:

We can check to see if the

i m a g e i s r e v e r s ed or not.

I was just curious

a b o u t t h a t , i t appears to me that wouldn’t
h a v e b e e n h i s n ormal hand position if he was
r i g h t -h a n d e d .
M S . W A S TWEET:
M R . H O G E:

He’s a Western rider.

If he’s a Western rider, he

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

242
w o u l d h o l d i t i n his left hand or he would
h a v e u s e d b o t h hands.
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . H O G E:

Both hands, Eastern style,

l e f t h a n d i s W e stern.

Being an Easterner, he

m a y n o t h a v e h e ld them in his left hand.
A n y w a y , t h i s i s the question.
I l i k e d number three because of the
h a n d g e s t u r e , a lthough it doesn’t look as
t h o u g h i t i s q u ite in a correct drawing.

My

v o t e w o u l d p r o b ably be for number one in this
c a s e , b u t I w o u ld like to see him shown with a
full head.

D e c apitation is not one of my

f a v o r i t e d e s i g n s.
F o r F o r t Moultrie, I have a question
a b o u t t h e c r e s c ent in number one.
F o r F o r t M o u l t r ie, I have a question about the
c r e s c e n t i n n u m ber one.
design.

This is an attractive

I t h i n k it would look nice on a coin.

T h a t c r e s c e n t s eems to be different from the
o n e s s h o w n i n a ll the flags and head gear.
I a s s u m e that General Moultrie himself

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

243
w a s p r o b a b l y a Mason, since this is a
p r o m i n e n t M a s o n ic element.

You might want to

t a k e t h a t i n t o consideration as well, with the
u s e o f a n y o f t hese images, the helmet
i d e n t i f i e r , t h e crescent on the flag, this
sort of thing.
N u m b e r four shows a cannon in enormous
distortion.

I t looks like kind of a toy put

t o g e t h e r w i t h o u t correct understanding of the
c a r r i a g e a n d s i ze of the wheels, size of the
b a r r e l , t h i s s o rt of thing.

I wouldn’t go

w i t h t h i s o n e u nless it was completely redone,
redrawn.
T h a n k y ou.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Robert.

Donald?
M R . S C A RINCI:

It’s always hard to go

t o w a r d s t h e e n d , and it’s especially hard to
g o a f t e r B o b , e specially when I’m sitting here
t h i n k i n g a b o u t all this information that he
h a s , a n d w h e n y ou hear him talk about Medieval
h a m m e r e d c o i n s , forget about it.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

244
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . S C A RINCI:

Let’s start at the

beginning.
I g u e s s the easiest one is Shawnee.
I ’ v e h e a r d a l o t of support for four and some
s u p p o r t f o r s e v en.

I have to agree that four

w o u l d m a k e t h e better coin because it’s on a
p l a n c h e t , i t ’ s on a very small planchet, and
t h e r e i s a l o t going on in seven.
a l m o s t t r i e s t o do too much.
p i c k s o u t s o m e t hing.

Seven

Four at least

It seems to convey what

t h e p a r k i s a b o ut on a small surface better
than seven.
S o , I ’ m inclined on Shawnee to go with
four.

T h a t t o me is the easy one.
O n C u m b erland Gap, Cumberland Gap is a

struggle.

N u m b er six is the classic deer in

the headlights.
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . S C A RINCI:

That’s all I think about

when I see six.

I just don’t even consider

that an option.

I’m very troubled, and this

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

245
i s w h e r e I s t a r t to become troubled by putting
h u m a n f i g u r e s o n these coins.

I don’t believe

t h a t o t h e r t h a n to have these insect like size
p e o p l e c l i m b i n g on Mount Rushmore, I don’t
t h i n k w e h a v e p ut a person as a main design
e l e m e n t i n o n e of these national park quarters
before.
I t h i n k here we are seeing at least two
p o s s i b i l i t i e s t hat we might actually be
p u t t i n g p e o p l e on these parks’ coins.
v e r y c o n c e r n e d about that.

I’m

I don’t think that

i s w h a t w e a r e supposed to be doing with this
p a r t i c u l a r s e r i es.
I t h i n k we are supposed to be
i l l u s t r a t i n g t h e park land and the beauty of
n a t u r e a n d n o t historical events and people.
I r e a l l y have a problem going with
n u m b e r t w o o n t his, which is why I was
s t r u g g l i n g w i t h this.
doesn’t work.
considering it.

Number five just

I don’t think we are even
We are really considering

n u m b e r t w o , w h i ch is a person.

Number three,

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

246
w h i c h a t l e a s t is an important feature of the
p a r k , a n d n u m b e r six, which I can’t even
s e r i o u s l y c o n s i der because it’s the deer in
the headlights.
S o , I t hink I’m really inclined to give
t h r e e a l l o f m y support and request that if we
v o t e o n t h r e e , that we can make a Motion to
r e a l l y r e d o t h i s a bit along the lines of what
s o m e p e o p l e h a v e said with respect to the
p r o m i n e n c e o f t he rock.
I r e a l l y think on this one, you know,
e s p e c i a l l y s i n c e the human figure in number
t w o i s l i k e k i n d of a generic human figure,
n o t a s p e c i f i c person, I think I would be
i n c l i n e d t o s u p port three and then if people
a g r e e , I w o u l d request a Motion to go back to
t h e d r a w i n g b o a rd with a more prominent rock
o n t h a t , a l o n g the lines of what people said.
W i t h r e spect to Harpers Ferry, you
k n o w , I c o u l d s ee number four, the Jefferson
R o c k , a s s o m e t h ing people would expect to see.
I c o u l d s e e t h e building, number seven.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

I

Capital Reporting Company

247
c o u l d s e e t h o s e two possibilities.

I don’t

t h i n k t h e r e w a s much support that I heard with
r e s p e c t t o n u m b er three as a building.

I

s u p p o s e f o r r e a sons in keeping with the
s e r i e s , I ’ d b e more inclined to go with number
f o u r , a l t h o u g h I could see the support for
n u m b e r t w o , a n d I’m going to give it some
weight.
I t ’ s e i ther four or seven.
s u p p o r t f o r n u m ber seven.

I can see

I think the other

o n e s t h a t w e a r e considering here are just out
of the question.

One, two, three.

One and

t w o I t h i n k a r e just out of the question.

I

t h i n k i f y o u l i ke a building, it’s between
three and seven.
four.

If you like nature, it’s

N u m b e r s ix is just not an option.

T h a t w o u l d j u s t look ridiculous as a quarter;
a b s o l u t e l y r i d i culous.
F o r t h e more difficult coin.

If we are

g o i n g t o d o o n e human figure in a national
p a r k s ’ s e r i e s , obviously it has to be TR,
right?

I f w e a re going to do one human, I

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

248
d o n ’ t b e l i e v e w e should do the generic human
i n H a r p e r s F e r r y.

I think if we are going to

d o a h u m a n , w e should do TR.
N o w , t h at being said, it looks like
f r o m w h a t w e h a ve heard from the park person,
t h e “ S ” s h a p e d river is something that people
w o u l d i d e n t i f y with who would know the park.
T h e “ S ” s h a p e d river appears to be a major
p a r t o f t h i s p a rticular park.
W e r e a l ly want to see the “S” shaped
river.

H o n e s t l y, I don’t need to see a horse.

I d o n ’ t n e e d t o see the horse’s head.
k n o w t h a t g i v e s you anything.

I don’t

I think if we

e n d u p d i s q u a l i fying it later, then we have
t h r o w n o u r s u p p ort to something that there is
g o i n g t o h a v e t o be a back- up for.
S o , I t hink, you know, kill the horse.
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . S C A RINCI:

I mean it

m e t a p h o r i c a l l y , Jeanne.

Eliminate the horse,

i n w h i c h c a s e w e are looking at TR in design
t w o a n d d e s i g n three.

I think I really like

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

249
this one.

A t t he end of the day, I don’t

r e a l l y t h i n k w e need the walking stick in
d e s i g n t w o , a n d the stick in design two cuts
i n t o t h e m i d d l e of the river, which I think is
w h a t y o u r e a l l y want to see.
S o , I t hink our better option is this
one.

Y o u k n o w , I trust completely that the

M i n t w i l l d e a l the shading in the coin.

I

d o n ’ t t h i n k t h a t’s an issue, and I don’t think
w e s h o u l d b e l o oking at the pencil drawings
b e c a u s e t h e s e a re coins, not pencil drawings.
I t h i n k if we look at this as a series,
a n d I t h i n k w e have to look at this as a
s e r i e s , o n e o f the things I’ll suggest at
a n o t h e r t i m e b e fore we consider quarters
a g a i n , I t h i n k at this point when we are doing
s e r i e s t h a t a r e this mature, we are this far
i n t o i t , i t w o u ld be instructive for us to do
a s e s s i o n m a y b e to talk about what has been
d o n e a n d w h a t w e think of it.
H e r e w e have an opportunity to go with
T R i n t h e p a r k series, if we make this the

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

250
o n l y t i m e w e d o a human figure, then we have
d o n e a h u m a n f i gure.
M R . W E I NMAN:
M R . S C A RINCI:

Greg, which one is that?
Oliver Hazard Perry.
That’s a statute or is

it?
M R . W E I NMAN:

Yes; exactly.

( L a u g h t er.)
M R . W E I NMAN:

Technically, it’s a bas

relief sculpt.
M R . S C A RINCI:
of a sculpture.

Right, it’s a sculpture

It’s a statute.

I think if

w e a r e g o i n g t o distinguish the series and do
s o m e t h i n g , h o n o r one human being in an entire
s e r i e s o f 5 0 q u arters, doing one with TR in it
makes sense.

Doing one with TR in it where

y o u c a n s e e t h e river and not the horse, and
w e d o n ’ t n e e d t o debate whether it is a
p i c t u r e , w h e t h e r it is an Eastern horse, an
A r a b i a n h o r s e , a Western horse, a Canadian
horse.

W e d o n ’ t have to deal with it.
I t h i n k I’m tending to support design

n u m b e r t h r e e f o r that reason.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

251
N o w y o u get into the most difficult of
t h e s e , a n d p r o b ably the most difficult quarter
d e s i g n t h a t w e have considered so far.
h o n e s t l y d o n ’ t know what to do.

I

We have heard

t h a t t h e u s e o f the word “Liberty” would be
s o m e t h i n g t o r e move from design one.
O b v i o u s l y , I ’ m a sucker for something like
d e s i g n o n e b e c a use of its simplicity, it makes
a statement.

I would like the experts decide

w h e t h e r w e h a v e to remove the word “Liberty.”
I ’ m a g a inst the human figure.
T h e r e f o r e , t h a t only leaves you with this kind
o f c a n n o n t h i n g , you know, it’s either design
o n e o r t h e c a n n on thing.
s a i d a b o u t d e s i gn six.

I do like what Heidi
That one, I had to

r e a l l y l o o k a t after you mentioned it, Heidi,
b e c a u s e I j u s t didn’t consider it.

After you

s a i d t h a t , I l o oked at it more closely, and I
t h i n k y o u ’ r e r i ght.

It is a sleeper design.

I t d o e s t h e t h i ngs we want it to do.
c l e a n , b u t i t ’ s not obvious.

It’s

It’s something

t h a t y o u r e a l l y have to think about.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

252
B u t t h e n we have another human figure
d e p i c t e d o n o n e of these parks’ coins.
b o t h e r e d b y t h a t.

I’m

Maybe I shouldn’t be

b o t h e r e d b y t h a t, but I’m bothered by that.
S o , o u r other alternative is to go with
t h e c a n n o n , a n d people have been wanting to do
a cannon.

W e ’ v e heard a groundswell about

c a n n o n s o n c o i n s.

If we had to do a cannon,

y o u k n o w , t h i s might be one to do the cannon,
o r w e c o u l d g o with the clean and simple
design one.
Y o u k n o w, I guess I’m torn on this.
I ’ m t o r n - - t h i s one I find to be the most
d i f f i c u l t o n e , you know, and only because I
r e a l l y d o n ’ t w a nt to do the human figure.

If

w e d i d t h e h u m a n figure on it, I would pick
s i x , b u t I t h i n k that’s a mistake.
I t h i n k there is something to be said
f o r h o n o r i n g T R as the only human, the only
n o n -s t a t u t e h u m an on one of these.

In which

c a s e , y o u ’ r e l o oking at the cannon or you’re
l o o k i n g a t n u m b er one.

I would have to say

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

253
s i n c e t h e c a n n o n would need work, we either do
t h e c a n n o n w i t h a Motion, or we do design one,
i n w h i c h c a s e w e still may need a Motion to
t a k e o u t t h e w o rd “Liberty” if we need to do
that.
S o , I ’ m sorry.

I just don’t know what

to do.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . W E I NMAN:

We’ll figure it out.

Mr. Chairman?

Can I make

a p o i n t o f c l a r ification?
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . W E I NMAN:

Sure.

Number one, especially

f o r n e w m e m b e r s that are here, the legislation
s a y s t h e d e s i g n s must be emblematic of the
national sites.

Early on, we interpreted that

f a i r l y b r o a d l y of what emblematic of a
n a t i o n a l s i t e m eans.
J u s t a s a point of clarification, only
b e c a u s e I h a p p e ned to be there during the time
w h e n w e w e r e a c tually selecting the sites,
t h e r e w a s a l w a y s a concern that when you are
f e a t u r i n g m a n y forests and many parks that

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

254
l o o k a l i k e , y o u ’re looking for things you can
g r a s p o n t o , l i k e iconic images.
W e t h o u ght years in advance would there
b e a n a n i m a l w e might be able to feature,
w o u l d t h e r e b e a person theoretically
a s s o c i a t e d w i t h it that could be featured, so
w e d i d n ’ t h a v e 50 rivers, et cetera.
I m e a n in the end, I just lay that out
f o r w h e r e o u r t hinking was and what our
i n t e r p r e t a t i o n of the statute was when the
l e g i s l a t i o n p a s sed.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you.

As we go

t o D r . V i o l a , I ’m going to ask members to
s t a r t g i v i n g t h ought to their voting sheets.
W e a r e t i m e c h a llenged.

I’m going to discuss

t h a t a s s o o n a s Dr. Viola is done, but we have
c o n s i d e r a b l e m o re work to do before this day
i s o v e r , a n d w e have bit into our time element
f o r t h e n e x t p r ogram.
S o , D r . Viola, please go forward.
D R . V I O LA:

Thank you.

h o p e t o m a k e t h is quick.

I certainly

Shawnee, I am very

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

255
h a p p y w i t h n u m b er four.

With Cumberland gap,

I ’ m v e r y h a p p y with number two.
c o n s i d e r a b l e r e search.

I did

His outfit seems

pretty good.

T he Kentucky rifle he holds is

pretty good.

I t looks like 1780s’ vintage.

T h a t i s the way they dressed, the kind
o f f a r m e r ’ s h a t and he has a long hunter’s
c o a t o n , a n d o f ten they were made with wool,
n o t a l w a y s w i t h buckskin, so you didn’t want
t o m a k e h i m l o o k like Daniel Boone or Davy
C r o c k e t t w i t h a coonskin hat.
I b e g a n my life thinking I was going to
b e a c o m m e r c i a l artist, and my first published
d r a w i n g w a s o f John Brown’s Fort.
i s v e r y i m p o r t a nt.
times.

To me, that

I’ve been there many

I k n o w Harpers Ferry, they would like

t o s e e a l o t m o re things advertised and
promoted.

I t i s a very important moment in

A m e r i c a n h i s t o r y.

I think that is your icon

a n d I t h i n k i t is very nice, number seven is
very good.
S i n c e y ou brought up the Roosevelt

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

256
s e r i e s , b y c o i n cidence, I’m a good friend of
Clay Jenkinson.

He was in town a couple of

d a y s a g o w i t h K en Burns and they had a big
d e a l a t t h e S m i thsonian.

I didn’t know if I

w a s v i o l a t i n g a ny rules here, but hey, you
w a n t t o s e e s o m ething.
drawings of TR.

I showed him these

He just went wow, this is

fabulous.
H e s o r t ed them out and he said one is a
no brainer.

T R was a cowboy, Little Missouri

i s a n i m p o r t a n t part of his life, and this
says it all.

A s a horseman myself, I do not

w a n t t o s e e a n y horses killed.
( L a u g h t er.)
D R . V I O LA:
there.

I want to see that horse in

T h e o t h er thing is I know Fort

M o u l t r i e m a y b e a little difficult for folks.
I ’ v e b e e n t h e r e several times myself.

The

w h o l e p u r p o s e o f these coins as I understand
i t i s t o g e t k i ds interested in coins.

You

k n o w , I ’ v e d o n e a lot of work with school
teachers.

I ’ v e written a couple of textbooks

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

257
f o r g r a d e s c h o o l.
Y o u k n o w, you look at these, and to me
i t j u m p e d r i g h t out at me, Heidi is absolutely
correct.

N u m b e r six says it all.

Most kids

h a v e n e v e r h e a r d of Fort Moultrie but when dad
o r g r a n d p a a n d shows them a coin and says
l e t ’ s l o o k t h i s up in the encyclopedia, and it
t e l l s y o u e v e r y thing you want to know.
T o m e , it’s a great image, well done.
I w i s h I w o u l d have been there.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you.

Thank you, Dr. Viola.

W e w e r e s u p p o s e d to start our next program,
w h i c h w a s t h e C ode Talkers Medal, at 3:00.
a r e s e v e r e l y b e hind at this time.

We

I’m going

t o a s k e v e r y o n e to get their score sheets into
E r i k s o w e c a n get that tallied.
A p r i l , if you’re ready, I want to go
i m m e d i a t e l y t o your report for the Code
Talkers Medal.
M S . S T A FFORD:

Yes, sir.

Public Law

1 1 0 -4 2 0 a u t h o r i zes the Secretary of the
T r e a s u r y t o s t r ike congressional medals to

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

258
r e c o g n i z e t h e d edication and valor of Native
A m e r i c a n c o d e t alkers to the United States
A r m e d S e r v i c e s during World War I and World
War II.
U n i q u e gold medals will be struck for
e a c h N a t i v e A m e rican Tribe that had a member
w h o s e r v e d a s a code talker.

Silver duplicate

m e d a l s w i l l b e presented to the specific code
t a l k e r s o r t o t heir next of kin.

Bronze

d u p l i c a t e s w i l l be struck and made available
f o r s a l e t o t h e public.
T h e r e a re no required inscriptions.
H o w e v e r , f o r d e sign consistency, the obverse
d e s i g n s i n c l u d e the Tribe’s name, code
t a l k e r s , a n d i f designed, a language unique to
the Tribe.

R e v erse inscriptions include

“ W o r l d W a r I ” a nd/or “World War II” as
a p p l i c a b l e t o t he war served, and “Act of
Congress 2008.”
W e w i l l review five obverse and three
r e v e r s e d e s i g n s for the Lake Superior Band of
t h e F o n d d u L a c Chippewa Tribe.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

259
W e a r e very fortunate to have with us
M r . J e f f S a v a g e , Director of the Fond du Lac
C u l t u r a l C e n t e r and Museum.

At the moment,

I ’ d l i k e t o i n v ite Mr. Savage to say a few
words.
M R . S A V AGE:

Good afternoon, folks.

I ’ m f r o m t h e F o nd du Lac Reservation.

We are

b y D u l u t h , M i n n esota at the head of Lake
Superior.

D u l u th is our original home site,

1854 Treaty.

We moved about 20 miles west to

a n a r e a t h a t w a s very important to us.
a l o t o f o u r w i ld rice lakes.

It had

Fond du Lac is

i n N o r t h e r n M i n nesota.
O n e t h i ng I would like to say is that
i n 1 9 5 8 , M i n n e s ota Centennial, at their
p a r a d e , I d i d c ollect a wooden nickel and I
still have it.
( L a u g h t er.)
M R . S A V AGE:

I don’t know if you folks

m a k e w o o d e n n i c kels.
M R . A N T ONUCCI:
M R . S A V AGE:

Might one day.

Yes, you may have to one

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

260
day.
M S . W A S TWEET:

Wooden pennies.

( L a u g h t er.)
M R . S A V AGE:
from way back.

I’m an old coin collector

I still have some steel head

p e n n i e s a n d I n d ian head pennies I collected in
the early 1950s.

It’s kind of nice to be able

t o b e h e r e a n d meet with your folks over a
c o i n o r c o d e t a lker medal.
T h i s m e dal is made in honor of a fellow
b y t h e n a m e o f Lex Porter.
Lac Band member.

He was a Fond du

Grew up on the Fond du Lac

R e s e r v a t i o n , a n d he moved to a reservation
n o r t h o f u s a n d raised his family and came
b a c k a n d l i v e d again on Fond du Lac for his
last years.
M r . P o r ter was a close friend of mine
a n d h i s s o n s a r e some of my best friends.

He

n e v e r e v e r m e n t ioned even to his family that
h e w a s a c o d e t alker.

So, that was something

t h a t h e d i d k e e p in his heart.

His family was

e v e n s u r p r i s e d when the honoring for the code

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

261
talkers came up.
T h e r e w ere other code talkers.

Most

p e o p l e k n o w t h e Navajo code talker, but there
w e r e q u i t e a f e w other tribes that did it
also.
T h e F o n d du Lac Reservation had me be
t h e p e r s o n t o b e the point man for you folks
o n t h i s c o d e t a lker medal.
c o u p l e o f d e s i g ns.

We picked out a

On the back, we have our

t r i b a l r e s e r v a t ion logo, and on the front,
t h e r e i s s o m e w ork by the artists here.

We

h a d a c o m m i t t e e and a group of elders who we
r e v i e w e d t h e s e designs with, and you have our
r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s there.
T h a n k y ou for inviting the Fond du Lac
R e s e r v a t i o n t o come and be part of this
p l a n n i n g s e s s i o n.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M S . S T A FFORD:

Thank you.
Thank you so much.

Now,

w e w i l l l o o k a t the designs we are considering
today.

W e h a v e five obverse designs.

They

a l l f e a t u r e W o r ld War II code talkers, either

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

262
t r a n s c r i b i n g o r receiving information, foliage
d e p i c t e d i n t h e first three designs is
i n c o r p o r a t e d t o show that the Fond du Lac code
t a l k e r s s e r v e d in the South Pacific.
A b e a d i ng pattern is incorporated
a r o u n d t h e b o r d ers of the designs, and the
d e s i g n s a r e i n s cribed “Lake Superior Band of
t h e F o n d d u L a c Chippewa” and “Code Talkers.”
F i r s t , o b v e r s e one.
preference.
design.

This is the Tribe’s

I t is also the CFA’s recommended

O b v e r s e two, three, four, and five.
M o v i n g on to the reverse designs, of

w h i c h t h e r e a r e three for consideration.

All

t h r e e r e v e r s e d esigns depict a variation of
t h e F o n d d u L a c Tribe seal with a beading
p a t t e r n a r o u n d the border.

Inscriptions

i n c l u d e “ A c t o f Congress 2008,” “World War
I I , ” “ F o n d d u L ac” on reverses one and two,
a n d “ F o n d d u L a c Soldiers” or “Fond du Lac
W a r r i o r s ” i n s c r ibed in their tribal language.
T h i s i s r e v e r s e one, which is also the Tribe’s
p r e f e r e n c e a n d the CFA’s recommended design.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

263
R e v e r s e t w o , a n d three.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, April.

B e f o r e I r e c o g n ize Donald, I just want to say
t h a t I t h i n k t h e artists really knocked this
o n e o u t o f t h e park.

There are just some

w o n d e r f u l d r a w i ngs here.

I think any of these

c o u l d m a k e a f i ne medal.

I’m very pleased

with it.
F o r m y s elf, I’m totally prepared to go
w i t h t h e T r i b e ’ s preferences.

I’m actually

h o p i n g t h e r e s t of you are also.
Donald?
M R . S C A RINCI:

We think alike after all

these years.
M R . S C A RINCI:

I was going to make a

M o t i o n t h a t w e adopt unanimously obverse one
a n d r e v e r s e o n e , which are the Tribe’s
p r e f e r e n c e s a n d the recommendations of the
CFA.
D R . B U G EJA:

Second.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
seconded.

It has been moved and

T h i s is getting out of our normal

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

264
process.

I w a n t to be respectful for our

process.

I s t h ere anyone who has any

d i s c u s s i o n a b o u t this Motion?
chance.

This is your

Robert?
M R . H O G E:

One brief point.

I had a

q u e s t i o n a b o u t what the equipment and weapons
o f t h i s p a r t i c u lar group of code talkers were
b e c a u s e t h e r e a re three different kinds of
f i r e a r m s s h o w n here and different types of
e q u i p m e n t , b u l l et pouches, canteens, and even
r a d i o s a r e c o m p letely different.

What’s the

correct one?
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Can someone from staff

respond to that?
M S . S T A FFORD:

I’m going to hand the

m i c r o p h o n e t o B etty, who is our program
m a n a g e r a n d h a s worked closely with the
D e p a r t m e n t o f D efense and others to review
such things.

B etty?

M S . B I R DSONG:

We did work directly

w i t h t h e D e p a r t ment of Defense and typically
w h a t t h e y d o i s give us source materials of

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

265
t h e e q u i p m e n t a nd guns that would have been
a v a i l a b l e i n W o rld War I.

There is no

p a r t i c u l a r e q u i pment specific to a Tribe, so
t h e y j u s t g i v e us complete equipment relative
to World War II.
M R . H O G E:

Would we know what the units

t o w h i c h t h e y w ere attached were equipped
with?
M S . B I R DSONG:

I don’t know what unit

t h e y w e r e a t t a c hed to.
not know.

In many cases, we do

I c o uld ask Mr. Savage, do you know

w h a t u n i t t h e y may have been attached to?
M R . S A V AGE:
M R . H O G E:

No.
So, there is no way of

k n o w i n g w h a t t h e weaponry was, or their
e q u i p a g e , o r t h eir radios?
M R . S A V AGE:

We left that up to --

M S . B I R DSONG:

When DOD verifies that

t h e i n d i v i d u a l is a code talker, sometimes
t h e y d o n ’ t k n o w exactly what unit they are in,
j u s t t h e y w e r e in the South or whatever
t h e a t e r t h e y w e re in.

That’s the only

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

266
i n f o r m a t i o n t h e y actually give us.
M R . H O G E:
selection.

I’m happy with the

I j ust want to make sure it’s

a c c u r a t e l y s h o w n because the other images are
different.
M S . B I R DSONG:
equipment.

It is World War II

O n c e we decide or we know what the

d e s i g n i s , w e w ill go back to DOD once again
j u s t t o e n s u r e before the medal is produced.
D R . B E G EJA:
M R . H O G E:

Sound power?
There is no weapon in this

one.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
the Motion?

Any other comments on

T h ere is a Motion on the table.

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Hearing none, all

t h o s e i n f a v o r of the Motion to approve
o b v e r s e o n e a n d reverse one, please raise your
hand.
( S h o w o f hands.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
T h a n k y o u v e r y much.

It is unanimous.

Thank you, Mr. Savage,

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

267
for being here.
wonderful medal.

You’re going to have a
Beautiful.

M R . S A V AGE:

Thank you.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay.

That takes us

t o r e v i e w a n d d iscussion of candidate designs
f o r C i v i l A i r P atrol.

April, if you’re

p r e p a r e d , w e ’ d like to hear your report.
M S . S T A FFORD:

All right.

On May 30,

2 0 1 4 , t h e P r e s i dent signed into law a bill
a u t h o r i z i n g a c ongressional gold medal in
h o n o r o f t h e W o rld War II members of the Civil
A i r P a t r o l c o l l ectively in recognition of the
m i l i t a r y s e r v i c e and exemplary record of the
C i v i l A i r P a t r o l during World War II.
A s d e s c ribed in the findings of the
l e g i s l a t i o n , t h e unpaid volunteer members of
t h e C i v i l A i r P atrol during World War II
p r o v i d e d e x t r a o rdinary humanitarian combat and
n a t i o n a l s e r v i c es during a critical time of
n e e d f o r t h e N a tion.
D u r i n g the war, Civil Air Patrol
m e m b e r s u s e d t h eir own aircraft to perform a

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

268
m y r i a d o f e s s e n tial tasks for the military and
t h e N a t i o n w i t h in the United States, including
a t t a c k s o n e n e m y submarines off the Atlantic
a n d G u l f o f M e x ico Coasts of the U.S.
W e h a v e our liaison to the Civil Air
P a t r o l , J o h n S w ain, with us today.

Mr. Swain,

m a y I a s k y o u t o say a few words to the
Committee?

T h a nk you.

M R . S W A IN:

Thank you.

Glad to be here

t o d a y r e p r e s e n t ing the CAP, the Civil Air
Patrol.

W e p r o bably have about 100 veterans

t h a t w e a r e a w a re of that are still alive, and
l a s t e v e n i n g , w e took a young lady who is 100
y e a r s o l d , J e r i Trusdell, she raised her right
h a n d , j o i n e d t h e Civil Air Patrol again.
W e p r o m oted her to lieutenant colonel,
a n d w e t o o k h e r flying last night out in
California.

S h e plans to be here whenever the

m e d a l i s p r e s e n ted, but we are grateful to the
C o m m i t t e e t o d a y for meeting about this.
W e t h i n k there are a number of
e x c e p t i o n a l d e s igns to look at here today, and

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

269
l o o k f o r w a r d t o answering any questions you
might have.
M S . S T A FFORD:

Thank you so much.

W e ’ r e g o i n g t o start first with the obverse
designs.

W h i l e not required by law, artists

w e r e g i v e n t h e suggested inscriptions of
“ C i v i l A i r P a t r ol” and “1941 through 1945,”
w h i c h a r e t h e y ears the Civil Air Patrol
m e m b e r s s u p p o r t ed World War II.

These

i n s c r i p t i o n s a r e included on all obverse
d e s i g n s o f w h i c h we have 16 in total for your
consideration.
O b v e r s e one depicts two Civil Air
P a t r o l p i l o t s s canning the coastal waters from
t h e c o c k p i t o f a Fairchild 24.

They are

b a n k i n g t o t h e right to get a clearer view of
the ocean.
O b v e r s e s two, three, and four feature
t w o C i v i l A i r P atrol volunteers monitoring the
skies.

I n t h e background, a tanker is

e s c o r t e d b y C i v il Air Patrol planes overhead.
H e r e i s o b v e r s e two, which is a preference of

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

270
o u r C i v i l A i r P atrol liaison.

Obverse three,

a n d o b v e r s e f o u r, another preference of our
C i v i l A i r P a t r o l liaison.
O b v e r s e five depicts two Civil Air
P a t r o l p i l o t s p reparing for a rescue mission.
O b v e r s e s i x a n d seven feature two Civil Air
P a t r o l c r e w m e m bers saluting as they
v i g i l a n t l y o b s e rve the skies and coast line.
I n t h e f o r e g r o u nd, an armed Stinson 10 scours
t h e c o a s t a l w a t er for enemy vessels.

Here is

o b v e r s e s i x , a l so a preference of our liaison,
and seven.
O b v e r s e s 9, 9A, and 9B depict three
c o u r a g e o u s C i v i l Air Patrol pilots.

The five

C i v i l A i r P a t r o l patches are depicted along
t h e b o t t o m o f t he design, along with the Civil
A i r P a t r o l r o u n del.
D e s i g n nine features the Civil Air
P a t r o l s i n g l e w ing emblem while design 9A
f e a t u r e s a n e a g le.

Here is obverse 9, 9A, and

9B.
O b v e r s e 10 and 10A depict two Civil Air

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

271
Patrol pilots.

The five Patrol patches are

d e p i c t e d a l o n g the bottom of the design.
D e s i g n 1 0 A f e a t ures an eagle atop the roundel.
H e r e i s o b v e r s e 10 and 10A.
O b v e r s e 12 features two Civil Air
P a t r o l p i l o t s w ith a plane serving the coast
l i n e i n t h e b a c kground.

Obverse 13 features

t w o C i v i l A i r P atrol pilots in profile with a
p a i r o f p l a n e s flying below.

Obverse 14

d e p i c t s t w o C i v il Air Patrol pilots with a
C i v i l A i r P a t r o l roundel centered above and
behind them.

T he figures are positioned over

a n a r m e d s i n g l e engine Civil Air Patrol
a i r c r a f t a s i t lifts off the runway.

The

c o m p o s i t i o n ’ s u nderlying structure resembles
t h e C i v i l A i r P atrol roundel.
F i n a l l y , obverse 15, which features the
C i v i l A i r P a t r o l roundel with a propeller
s h a p e d i v i d i n g the space into three equal
s e g m e n t s r e p r e s enting the pilots, the support
c r e w s , a n d t h e Civil Air Patrol mission
itself.

T o t h e left are two pilots in

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

272
profile.

T o t h e right, a ground support crew

p r e p a r e s a p l a n e for its mission.

The bottom

s e c t i o n d e p i c t s one of the many important
m i s s i o n s u n d e r t aken by the Civil Air Patrol e s c o r t i n g t a n k e rs.
O b v e r s e 15 is the CFA’s recommendation.
T h e y w o u l d a s k that the fonts used on the
o b v e r s e a n d r e v erse designs be modified as
n e e d e d s o t h e y coincide with one another.
M o v i n g on to the reverse designs of
w h i c h w e h a v e 1 5 for your consideration,
r e v e r s e o n e d e p icts three Civil Air Patrol
p l a n e s f l y i n g a coastal mission.

The center

a i r c r a f t i s f i t ted with a 100 pound bomb.
A C i v i l Air Patrol insignia is featured
a t t h e t o p o f t he design.

Inscriptions read

“ C i v i l i a n V o l u n teers Who Flew Combat and
H u m a n i t a r i a n M i ssions” and “Act of Congress
2014.”

R e v e r s e one is a preference of our

liaison.
R e v e r s e s two, 2A, and 3 features
v a r i a t i o n s o n a Civil Air Patrol insignia.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

273
I n s c r i p t i o n s r e ad “Eyes of the Home Skies” and
“ A c t o f C o n g r e s s 2014.”

Designs 2 and 2A

f e a t u r e t h e a d d itional inscription “Civil Air
P a t r o l ” a c r o s s the lower banner.

Here is

r e v e r s e 2 , 2 A , and 3.
R e v e r s e 4.

A partial laurel wreath

r e p r e s e n t i n g h o nor and service surrounds Civil
A i r P a t r o l i n s i gnias.

Inscriptions read

“ H o n o r , ” “ C i v i l ian Volunteers Who Flew Combat
a n d H u m a n i t a r i a n Missions,” and “Act of
Congress 2014.”

Reverse 4 is a preference of

o u r l i a i s o n a n d the recommendation of the CFA.
R e v e r s e 5 depicts Civil Air Patrol
p l a n e s e s c o r t i n g a merchant ship to shore.
T h e C i v i l A i r P atrol roundel is depicted at
t h e t o p o f t h e design.

Inscriptions read

“ C i v i l i a n V o l u n teers Who Flew Combat and
H u m a n i t a r i a n M i ssions” and “Act of Congress
2014.”
R e v e r s e six features two Civil Air
P a t r o l p l a n e s f lying overhead with the Civil
A i r P a t r o l r o u n del and Patrol patches below.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

274
T h e i n s c r i p t i o n s read “Honor,” “Civilian
V o l u n t e e r s W h o Flew Combat and Humanitarian
M i s s i o n s , ” a n d “Act of Congress 2014.”

This

r e v e r s e , r e v e r s e six, is also a preference of
our liaison.
R e v e r s e seven depicts an eagle holding
a s c o p e , r e m i n i scent of the Civil Air Patrol
c o a s t a l P a t r o l badge.

The eagle clutches a

b r a n c h o f o a k s ymbolizing strength.

A Civil

A i r P a t r o l p l a n e flies in the background.
I n s c r i p t i o n s r e ad “Eyes of the Home Skies” and
“ A c t o f C o n g r e s s 2014.”
R e v e r s e eight features a stylized eagle
c l u t c h i n g a s c o pe, again, reminiscent of the
C i v i l A i r P a t r o l coastal patrol badge.

The

d e s i g n i s f r a m e d by olive branches symbolizing
unity.

T h r e e p lanes used by the Civil Air

P a t r o l a r e f e a t ured at the bottom of the
d e s i g n w i t h i n s criptions reading “Eyes of the
H o m e S k i e s ” a n d “Act of Congress 2014.”
R e v e r s e nine depicts a stylized version
o f t h e C i v i l A i r Patrol coastal Patrol badge.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

275
T h e d e s i g n i s s urrounded by laurel signifying
victory.

T h e i nscriptions read “Eyes of the

H o m e S k i e s , ” “ C ivilian Volunteers Who Flew
C o m b a t a n d H u m a nitarian Missions,” and “Act of
Congress 2014.”
R e v e r s e 10 features a pair of Civil Air
P a t r o l p l a n e s f lying over a shipping vessel
r e p r e s e n t i n g o n e of the important missions of
t h e C i v i l A i r P atrol.

The five Civil Air

P a t r o l m i s s i o n patches are represented on
e i t h e r s i d e o f the design with the Civil Air
P a t r o l i n s i g n i a at the base.

Inscriptions

r e a d “ C i v i l i a n Volunteers Who Flew Combat and
H u m a n i t a r i a n M i ssions” and “Act of Congress
2014.”
R e v e r s e s 11 and 11A portray two armed
C i v i l A i r P a t r o l light aircraft from the point
o f v i e w o f o n e of the pilots.

The planes fly

o v e r a n o i l t a n ker along the Eastern Seaboard.
T h e i n s c r i p t i o n s read “Civilian Volunteers Who
F l e w C o m b a t a n d Humanitarian Missions.”

In

d e s i g n 1 1 , t h e five Civil Air Patrol active

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

276
s e r v i c e d u t y p a tches are positioned along the
top of the rim.

Here’s reverse 11 and 11A.

R e v e r s e s 12 and 12A are variations of
r e v e r s e s 1 1 a n d 11A, with two armed Civil Air
P a t r o l l i g h t a i rcraft flying over an oil
t a n k e r a l o n g t h e Eastern Seaboard.
I n s c r i p t i o n s r e ad “Civilian Volunteers Who
F l e w C o m b a t a n d Humanitarian Missions.”
I n d e s i gn 12, the five Civil Air Patrol
a c t i v e s e r v i c e duty patches are positioned
a l o n g t h e t o p o f the rim.

Here is reverse 12

and 12A.
T h a t i s it, Mr. Chairman.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, April.

So,

o u r n e x t s t e p i n our process would be to move
t o o u r c u l l i n g process.

If I could have the

o b v e r s e i m a g e s brought up.

Please indicate,

C o m m i t t e e m e m b e rs, which of these images you
w o u l d l i k e t o c onsider further.
W e w i l l start with obverse number one.
( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Yes.

Obverse number

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

277
two?
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Number three?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Set that one aside.

Number four?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Set that one aside.

Number five?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
Number six?

Passing on five.

A p ril?

M S . S T A FFORD:

This was a preference of

t h e C i v i l A i r P atrol.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

I will include this in

o u r p i l e f o r c o nsideration.

Number seven?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Set that one aside.

Number nine?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Set that one aside.

Interest in 9A?

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

278
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

9B?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Set that aside.

10?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Set that one aside.

10A?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Pass on that one.

12?

Interest in 12?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
12.

Okay.

No interest in

13?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting 13 aside.

14?

( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
13 and 14.

You want 13?

Okay.

15?

( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

As far as the obverse

d e s i g n s g o , w e have remaining for our focus
t o w a r d s a r e c o m mendation, obverse designs 1,

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

279
2 , 6 , 9 A , 1 3 , 1 4, and 15.

All others we are

setting aside.
G o i n g t o the reverse designs, is there
i n t e r e s t i n r e v erse number one?
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Reverse number two?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Set that one aside.

2A?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
also.

Setting that one aside

N u m b e r t hree?
( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Interest in three.

Four?
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Five?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
Six?

Setting five aside.

T h i s w a s a preference -M S . S T A FFORD:

A preference of our

liaison.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

280
( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

We’ll include that.

Number seven?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
number seven.

We’re passing on

Eight?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting eight aside.

Nine?
( R e s p o n ses of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Yes on nine.

10?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting 10 aside.

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting 11 aside.

11A?
( R e s p o n se of yes.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

We have 11A.

12?

( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Setting 12 aside.

12A?
( N o r e s ponse.)

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

11?

Capital Reporting Company

281
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

For further

c o n s i d e r a t i o n o n the reverses, we have designs
1 , 3 , 4 , 6 , 9 , and 11A.

I’ll ask members to

f o c u s t h e i r c o m ments and their consideration
o n t h o s e d e s i g n s we have just indicated we
w o u l d l i k e t o l ook at further.
A t t h i s point, I’ll ask if members have
a n y q u e s t i o n s o f a technical nature they would
l i k e t o a s k t h e staff before we get into our
d i s c u s s i o n o n t he designs themselves.

Are

t h e r e a n y q u e s t ions, and if so, please direct
t h o s e t o t h e s t aff now.
M S . L A N NIN:

I have a question.

O v e r w h e l m i n g l y , I think that we seem to favor
w h i t e A m e r i c a n s or white when we do these
medals.

O n e o f the women who was a member of

t h e C i v i l A i r P atrol was the first black woman
e v e r t o g e t a n aviation license in the United
S t a t e s , a n d h e r name was Bessie Coleman.
O n e o f my choices was I voted for an
o b v e r s e t h a t w a s more ethnically diverse.
j u s t w a n t e d t o mention that.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

I

Capital Reporting Company

282
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
t e c h n i c a l q u e s t ions?

Okay.

Can we have any

Are there any technical

questions?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Hearing none, is there

a m e m b e r w h o w o uld like to begin the
discussion?

M i chael Bugeja, why don’t you go

a h e a d a n d c o m m e nt both on obverse and reverse.
D R . B U G EJA:

I’ll set the tone by only

c o m m e n t i n g o n o nes that I like so we can go
quickly.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
D R . B U G EJA:

Thank you.

I’d like to go to obverse

n u m b e r t w o , w h i ch is my preference.
i t c a p t u r e s a g reat scene.

I think

It doesn’t repeat

m a n y o f t h e s y m bols which you are going to
f i n d i n s o m e o f the other ones that we are
looking at.

I would just want to caution the

C o m m i t t e e t h a t it is very important on this
m e d a l t o t a k e a look at what you are including
o n t h e o b v e r s e and make sure it is not
r e p e a t e d o n t h e reverse.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

283
T h e o t h er ones are all fetching, but I
b e l i e v e t h a t t h is one is my favorite because
i t c a p t u r e s a l l of them.

I’m only going to

t a l k a b o u t m y f avorite, and I’ll listen to the
f a v o r i t e s o f o t hers.
W h e n I go to the reverse, I’m just
g o i n g t o t a l k a bout my favorite again.
A l t h o u g h t h e r e is a repetition of the plane, I
like number six.

I like the way the planes

a r e f l y i n g o v e r head.

I think this does

a c t u a l l y n e e d a n inscription.

I like the fact

t h a t i t h a s “ h u manitarian missions” in there
b e c a u s e m a n y p e ople would not know that aspect
of history.
T h o s e a re my two favorites.

I’ll pass.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Robert?

M R . H O G E:

Thank you.

I found it very difficult to

s e l e c t a m o n g t h ese, seeing so many attractive
designs.

I n g e neral, they seemed to be a

little bit busy.

I do see a difficulty in

c o r r e l a t i n g o b v erses and reverses that would
n o t r e d u p l i c a t e each other.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

284
I l i k e the views of the interior of the
a i r c r a f t t h a t y ou find on some of the obverse
a n d r e v e r s e i m a ges.

I wonder if maybe

c o n t r a s t i n g o n e of those with one that is not
a n i n t e r i o r w o u ld be a good combination.

I

d o n ’ t h a v e a n y particularly strong preference
f o r s o m e o f t h e se, although I would be against
t h e o n e s t h a t h ave a great deal of
i n s c r i p t i o n s o r a great deal of representation
o f t h e v a r i o u s patches or badges of the
d i v i s i o n s o f t h e Corps.
a bit too busy.

I’ll pass to Donald.

M R . S C A RINCI:
t h i s f r o m t h e r everse.
obverse.

I think that becomes

You know, I approached
Reverse first and then

I ’ m a ctually kind of happy to hear

t h a t n u m b e r o n e is the recommended reverse,
t h e o n e t h a t t h e constituent group would like.
I f y o u work from that point, you know,
t h a t i s t h e o n e I liked, and I happen to like
obverse 14.

A l l you have to do is remove the

o n l y t h i n g a b o u t reverse one that I didn’t
l i k e , w h i c h i s “Act of Congress 2014,” in the

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

285
f i e l d , i f y o u r emoved that from the field
t h e r e , y o u h a v e it by the landing strip on
obverse 14.
I l i k e obverse 14 a lot because I
r e a l l y l i k e t h e way that landing strip moves
y o u r e y e t o w a r d s the figures, moves your eye
i n t o t h e c o i n , into the medal.
t h a t ’ s m y f a v o r ite.

So, I think

I would support obverse

1 4 p a i r e d w i t h reverse one, and with a Motion
t h a t w e e l i m i n a te “Act of Congress” on reverse
one.
D R . V I OLA:

Well, artistically, I

t h o u g h t a l l o f these were really very nice,
b u t a g a i n , v e r y repetitive.
f e e l i n g o n a n y of these.

I have no strong

Since I was in the

N a v y o n a c a r g o ship, I like seeing my ship
o u t t h e r e w i t h a plane overhead.
number two.

I like

I would go along with that.

I d o l i ke the idea of the CFA one, you
k n o w , h o n o r t h e civilians who really helped
out.

I w o u l d s ay I’m happy with number four

on the reverse.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

286
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M R . U R A M:

Tom?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

T h e s e d e s i g n s a re really tremendous and a lot
t o c h o o s e f r o m here, but we do have to narrow
it down.
15.

O n t h e obverse, I lean towards 14 or

I d o l i k e the movement also on 14.

I

a l s o l i k e t h e q uadrants of 15 where it
r e p r e s e n t s t h e mechanics as well as the ocean
a s w e l l a s t h e fliers.
I t h r e w in number one simply because I
t h o u g h t t h e a r t ist did a great job of movement
there.

I t h i n k maybe not for this one, but it

r e a l l y h a s a l o t of movement to that medal,
a n d t h a t w o u l d be great to see on one of our
u p c o m i n g d e s i g n s of some sort that would be
circulating.
A s y o u all know, I’m kind of one for
w a n t i n g t o h a v e words on the reverse, so I
w o u l d g o w i t h n umber four or number six.

I

l e a n t o w a r d s s i x a little more because of the
p l a n e a n d e v e r y thing, but once again it would
d e p e n d o n t h e p airing, and maybe four is a

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

287
c l e a n e r l o o k p a rticularly if we already have a
p l a n e o n t h e f r ont.

I guess I would go more

w i t h n u m b e r f o u r if we were to choose some of
t h e p l a n e i m a g e s on the obverse.
A s y o u all know, I am on the medals
l i k i n g t o h a v e the description presented in a
w a y t h a t i s v e r y direct, particularly for what
i t r e p r e s e n t s i n any occasion.
T h a n k y ou, Mr. Chairman.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Tom.

We

w i l l g o t o J e a n ne.
M S . S T E VENS- SOLLMAN:

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

I ’ m going to be brief because of

the time.

I a l so am aware of the fact that we

n e e d e d a l i t t l e bit more ethnic diversity.
I n t h i s particular field of medals, the
o n e t h i n g t h a t disturbed me in some of the
e a r l i e r o n e s , l ike number two, although it’s a
b e a u t i f u l d e s i g n, it’s of such young people.
N u m b e r 1 5 h a s a n image of some older people
t h a t I b e l i e v e would have been more in keeping
w i t h t h e f o l k s that would have been owning

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

288
t h e s e a i r p l a n e s and flying them.

Even though

I k n o w w e h a d y oung pilots at the time, I
t h i n k p e r h a p s n umber 15 might represent the
g r o u p a l i t t l e better.
I a l s o like the fact that we had a ship
i n t h e l o w e r q u adrant of that medal, and to
c o m p l i m e n t t h a t , I would go with reverse
number one.

H o wever, reverse number one, I

d o n ’ t t h i n k t h e border -- it disturbs me a
l i t t l e b i t a b o u t how the text is around that.
I ’ d l i k e t o s e e it in reverse, so that we
w o u l d h a v e m a y b e the emblem at the bottom, and
i t w o u l d r e a d a little better.
I ’ m f i n ding my head is trying to turn
a r o u n d t h i s m e d al; it’s a little disturbing to
me.
T h a n k y ou.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M S . W A S TWEET:

Heidi?
I’d like to take a

s e c o n d t o a l s o compliment the creativity of
d e s i g n n u m b e r o ne.

I don’t think it is the

b e s t o f t h e g r o up, but it is a tough group.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

I

Capital Reporting Company

289
d o l i k e t h e c r e ativity.
I n t h e Civil Air Patrol, I prefer to
e m p h a s i z e t h e c ivil nature of it.

We do have

a l o t o f m i l i t a ry coins and these were
civilians.

I l ike these designs that have a

l i t t l e m o r e c a s ual
p o s e t h a t l o o k more civilian and less
military.
D e s i g n number two accomplishes that.

I

i n i t i a l l y l i k e d design 9A but as I’m looking
a t i t a g a i n , I feel it’s a little too
g l a m o r i z e d a n d not down to earth enough, real
enough.
I r e a l l y lean toward design obverse 14.
I l i k e t h e e q u a lity of the two characters;
i t ’ s p r e d o m i n a n tly the woman or the man, very
equal.

T h e y a r e not really glamorized but yet

t h e y a r e c h a r m i ng, and the design is well laid
out and clear.

The leading lines that go into

t h e c e n t e r , g o t the log in there.
h i t s a l l t h e m a rks.

I think it

I really like this one.

D e s i g n 15, I appreciate the details.

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

I

Capital Reporting Company

290
t h i n k i t ’ s a l i ttle too collagey for my taste.
O n r e v e rses, I gravitate toward reverse
nine.

I t h i n k this is unique, it’s different

t h a n w h a t w e s e e with the shields and patches
a n d t h a t s o r t o f thing.

It’s so clear.

w i n g s , t h e y a r e up in the air.
there.

The

The telescope

T h a t ’ s their job, to look.

It’s just

a c l e a n , c l e a r , concise direct design.

It has

t h e t e x t o n i t that clearly explains what it
i s f o r , w i t h o u t being busy, crowded, like a
l o t o f t h e o t h e r reverses that I see here.

I

h a v e a s t r o n g p reference towards nine.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Heidi.

I

a m g r a t e f u l t o my colleagues that I didn’t go
first.

I ’ m g o i ng to say something different

t h a n I w o u l d h a ve said before.

However, I’m

g o i n g t o s t a r t off with -- I asked for 9A.
I ’ v e d e c i d e d t o go away from that.

One that I

d o n ’ t t h i n k a n y one else has talked about yet,
c o u l d y o u p u t u p obverse 13?
this one.

I really like

I l i ke it more than 14.

I k n o w there has been a lot of

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

291
d i s c u s s i o n a b o u t 14.
This is cleaner.

14 is a little busy.

I think those profiles are

g o i n g t o p r o v i d e a real sharp image, there’s
g o i n g t o b e a l ot of definition to this.

It’s

s i m p l e , b u t I t hink it has all the elements
t h a t t e l l t h e s tory for the obverse.
I r e a l l y like this one, and I’d ask
t h o s e o f y o u w h o are considering 14 if you
w o u l d a l s o l o o k at 13 and consider it as maybe
a c l e a n e r o p t i o n as opposed to 14.
M S . W A S TWEET:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

( Off microphone.)
I’m fine with it.

A n y w a y , c a n w e look at 15, please.

I like 15.

I a l s o h a v e t o acknowledge Heidi’s comment
t h a t i t ’ s a l i t tle collagey.
c r e a t i v e e f f o r t here.
shown here.
this one.

I like the

I like the propeller

I ’ m going to give some support to
I a l so like the ethnic diversity.

T h i s i s t h e o n e that Mary is referring to.
like that.

I l ike the profiles.

well rendered.

I

I think it’s

In a three inch bronze medal,

t h i s i s g o i n g t o look sharp.

I do think 13 is

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

292
p r o b a b l y t h e s h arper.
I f w e c ould go to reverse number three.
I t h i n k r e v e r s e number three is a real
d i g n i f i e d r e v e r se.

Very clean.

I think if

y o u p a i r i t w i t h obverse 13, the two together
w i l l j u s t l o o k sharp.

It has the symbology

w i t h t h e C i v i l Air Patrol image there in the
m i d d l e , t h e A m e rican bald eagle.

I like the

w a y t h i s p r e s e n ts and I like the way it would
pair with 13.
W i t h t h at, I’ll give the mike to Erik.
M R . J A N SEN:

These are really, really

s o m e w o n d e r f u l images.

I am taken by the

s h e e r n u m b e r o f images that we got.

I suspect

t h a t o n e o r t w o artists submitted quite a few
drawings here.
I n p a r t icular, I don’t know who it is,
o b v i o u s l y , w e d on’t, if you look at just
m e r e l y t h e p o r t raiture, the quality of the
f a c e s a n d p o r t r aits on obverses two, three,
f o u r , f i v e , s i x , seven, eight, nine, 9A, 9B,
1 0 , w h o e v e r d r e w these, these artists, I would

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

293
e n c o u r a g e y o u t o give us more of your work.
T h e s e p o r t r a i t s are spectacularly good.
I n t e r m s of preferences for this
p a r t i c u l a r d e s i gn, I wasn’t able to isolate
t h e f e e l i n g t h a t Heidi brought forth, but she
s a i d i t v e r y , v ery tidily.
not military.

We would like a look that feels

c i v i l i a n , n o t m ilitary.
military looks.
comments.

This is civilian,

We have tons of

I thank you for those

A s q uite often is the case, I get

m y o p i n i o n s f r o m Heidi.
I n t h a t sense, when I look at the
o b v e r s e s e l e c t i ons, I have a lot of good
choices here.
number two.

Wow.

I love the feeling of

I t feels very much civilian.

We

h a v e t h i s s k i n frame aircraft, which is common
i n m a n y o f t h e s e, but especially it looks like
a c i v i l i a n g r a d e aircraft here.
A s I t r ied to architect the contents of
t h i s c o i n , w h a t is on one side that should not
b e o n t h e o t h e r , I take the appearance, the
a i r f r a m e f o r t h e obverse images here, and I

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

294
love two.

I l o ve 14.

14 just feels so

v o l u n t e e r t o m e , and I like the layout of it,
I l i k e t h e l i n e s of it.

Yeah, it’s kind of

m a t c h y -m a t c h y / l eft- right.

I like the fact

t h a t w e h a v e c i vilian kind of headwear,
c i v i l i a n l o o k , civilian feel.
I ’ m n o t at all bothered on 15 by the
“ c o l l a g e y , ” I t hink is the word that was used.
I a c t u a l l y l i k e the two portraits in the upper
l e f t -h a n d c o r n e r because they carry forth some
o f t h e p o s s i b i l ities, interpretatively, that
M a r y b r o u g h t f o rth.

It’s not clear to me

e x a c t l y w h a t t h e race or demographics of the
m a l e a n d f e m a l e are, so in that sense, they
a r e n i c e l y u n i v ersal.
do.

That is a hard thing to

I c o m m e n d the artist there.
I ’ m g o i ng to support 15.

support 14.

I’m going to

I ’ m going to support two.

I’m

g o i n g t o l e t t h e group slug this one out at
the high end.
O n t h e reverse, I have now captured my
f a c e s a n d m y a i rframes on my obverse choice,

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

295
s o I ’ m g o i n g t o go for some text and some
w i n g s a n d t h i n g s on this one.
f o u r , s i x , a n d nine.
M R . M O R AN:

My favorites,

Thank you.

I’m pretty much seconding

t h e M o t i o n o n w hat Erik has said on obverse
number two.

I like number 14.

The reasons I

d o o n t w o , I l i ke the fact that they are
b a n k i n g t h e p l a ne.

I think it denotes to me

m o t i o n m o r e s o than the others where they are
flying level.

In 14, I like the concept first

o f a l l o f t h e p lane taking off and secondly,
t h e b a l a n c e o f basically one- third plane, twot h i r d s f o r t h e people above there.

That’s a

n i c e s p l i t i n t erms of portraiture.
O n c e y o u get to that stage and going to
t h e r e v e r s e , I ’ m not looking for airplanes
again.

L i k e E r ik, I’m looking for something

t h a t a p p r o x i m a t es a coat of arms and explains
the medal.
nine.

I ’ m looking at four, six, and

Not six.

Three.

I looked at three,

four, and nine.
I n t h e end, I came down with number

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

296
n i n e a s m y f a v o rite.

I think it gives a nice

c o n t r a s t t o e i t her number two or 14 on the
obverse.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
M S . L A N NIN:

Mary?

Well, I seem to have

s t a k e d m y c l a i m a little early on with number
15.

I t m a y b e a tad busy. I liked it for the

e t h n i c d i v e r s i t y in it.
number 14.

I was also a fan of

A g a in, to me, it’s classic.

I

d o n ’ t m i n d t h e “Act of Congress 2014” on the
bottom.

I t h i n k somebody else had talked

a b o u t g e t t i n g r id of that.
M y o t h e r favorite was number two.

We

h a v e t h e m o u t s i de the plane in number two.

If

y o u p a i r t h a t w ith number 11A, that’s kind of
w h a t t h e y a r e l ooking at when they are flying.
I like the view.

I think if you’re a pilot or

s o m e t h i n g - - I ’ m not -- I have friends who
are.

J u s t t h e view from the cockpit, that’s

w h a t t h e y a r e l ooking at.
I d o n ’ t want the one with the patches.
I like 11A.

I think it is simpler.

Those are

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

297
t h e t w o p e o p l e that could be in that plane
l o o k i n g a t t h a t oil tanker, making sure it’s
safe.

I s a i d m y first vote would go to 11A,

m y n e x t v o t e w o uld go to just something simple
l i k e t h e s h i e l d on number three.

That could

b e p a i r e d w i t h either 15 or two or 14.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Thank you, Mary.

h a v e c o m e f u l l circle on our discussion.

We
I

w i l l a s k m e m b e r s to fill out their scoring
s h e e t a n d p a s s those in for Erik to tally.
I ’ l l r e p o r t t h o se as soon as he has it ready.
U n t i l t hen, I do have some unfinished
b u s i n e s s t o r e p ort to you about the America
t h e B e a u t i f u l q uarters, so if I could ask the
s c r e e n o p e r a t o r to go back to America the
B e a u t i f u l , I w i ll bring us all up to date on
o u r r e c o m m e n d a t ions.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

I am going to start

w i t h S h a w n e e N a tional Forest.

As in the other

p r o g r a m s , I ’ m n ot going to read the ones that
we set aside.

On Shawnee National Forest,

n u m b e r f o u r r e c eived 31 of the possible 33

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

298
p o i n t s , a n d t h a t is our recommended design.
N u m b e r s i x r e c e ived zero.
received eight.

Number seven

A strong separation there for

number four.
G o i n g t o Cumberland Gap, number two
r e c e i v e d 2 6 o f the 33 possible points.
i s o u r r e c o m m e n ded design.

Design number

t h r e e r e c e i v e d four points.
r e c e i v e d f o u r p oints.

That

Design number six

Again, another strong

s h o w i n g f o r d e s ign number two.
G o i n g t o Harpers Ferry, design number
o n e r e c e i v e d o n e vote.

Two received one vote.

T h r e e r e c e i v e d 10 votes.
votes.

Four received six

S i x r e c eived one.

Number seven is our

r e c o m m e n d e d d e s ign with 27.
M o v i n g on to Theodore Roosevelt
N a t i o n a l P a r k , design number one is our
r e c o m m e n d e d d e s ign with 22.
received five.
16.

Design number two

Design number three received

F o u r r e c e i ved zero.

Nine received one.

G o i n g t o Fort Moultrie, design number
one received 16.

Design number two received

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

299
eight points.
received five.

Four received 13 points.

Five

Design number six is our

r e c o m m e n d e d d e s ign, and kudo’s to Heidi for
p u s h i n g t h a t o n e out to our attention.

It

r e c e i v e d 2 5 o f the possible 33 points.
M R . W E I NMAN:

How many?

M R . E V E RHART:
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Twenty- five.
Twenty- five of 33.

D e s i g n n u m b e r s even received zero.

That

r o u n d s o u t o u r America the Beautiful quarters
for 2016.
I t h i n k we are going to need to take a
s h o r t r e c e s s t o tally the Civil Air Patrol
scores.

A s s o o n as I have those in my hand, I

w i l l b r i n g u s b ack into session.

Until then,

w e a r e i n a s h o rt recess.
(B r i e f recess.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
the record now.

Okay.

We are back on

We have a tally for the Civil

A i r P a t r o l C o n g ressional Gold Medal.
right.

W e h a v e some hot scores here.

All
Erik

w a s j u s t m a k i n g the observation to me that

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

300
C o m m i t t e e m e m b e rs did a lot of scoring, which
m e a n t t h e y w e r e giving lots of scores to
s e v e r a l o f t h e designs.
I t h i n k that is just indicative of the
f a c t t h a t w e h a d a great portfolio for the
C i v i l A i r P a t r o l.

Once again, my thanks and

a p p r e c i a t i o n t o the artists who participated
i n p u t t i n g t h a t portfolio together, and of
c o u r s e , t h e s t a ff who helped organize it.

I

t h i n k t h i s w a s a great collection that we were
able to look at.
S o , w i t hout further ado, on the obverse
o f t h e C i v i l A i r Patrol, design number one
r e c e i v e d t h r e e points.
received 18.

Design number two

T his is not the highest score.

I w i l l r e m i n d y ou that 17 is the threshold.
N u m b e r t w o r e c e ived 18.

Number three --

U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:

Were these

eliminated?
M R . J A N SEN:

Eliminated; yes.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
r e c e i v e d t w o v o tes.

Design number six

Design number nine, which

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

301
I d o n ’ t t h i n k w as being considered, received
two.

D e s i g n 9 A received three.

We slide all

t h e w a y u p t o 1 3 which received 11.

Then we

c o m e t o 1 4 , w h i ch is our recommended design at
24 points.

N u m ber 15 received 17.

W e h a d three top ones, number 14 being
t h e t o p , n u m b e r two being second, and number
1 5 r i g h t b e h i n d that with 17 points.
I f w e g o down to the reverse, design
n u m b e r o n e r e c e ived 10 points.

Design number

t h r e e i s o u r r e commended design with 18.
D e s i g n n u m b e r f our received 10.
s i x r e c e i v e d e i ght.
received 17.

Design number

Design number nine

D esign number 11A received

eight.
U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:

Where did three

come from?
U N I D E N T IFIED SPEAKER:

We talked about

it.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

I want to thank

e v e r y o n e f o r y o ur hard work, the artists, the
s t a f f , t h e C o m m ittee.

This was a good

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

302
exercise.

W i t h that, I believe Heidi has a

Motion to make.
please?

Can I get us to focus,

W e a r e almost done.
M S . W A S TWEET:

Heidi?

I’d like to make a

M o t i o n o n t h e T heodore Roosevelt obverse,
s i n c e t h a t i s o ur choice number one design,
t h a t w e m o v e t h e head away from the rim at the
d i s c r e t i o n o f t he Art Department, whether it
b e c o m p l e t e l y f ree of the rim or more so than
it is.

Don?
M R . E V E RHART:

I was going to suggest,

a n d I m i g h t n e e d Greg to weigh in on this,
h a v e w e e v e r o v erlapped letters?

Could we

o v e r l a p , n o t c o mpletely over the “S” and “E,”
b u t m a y b e j u s t a little bit?
M R . W E I NMAN:
completely.

We have broken them

W e certainly can break the

border, we have.

In this case, have we ever

a c t u a l l y o v e r l a pped letters?

There is nothing

t h a t s a y s w e c a n’t.
M S . W A S TWEET:
t h e h a t w e r e a b ove.

Steve?

I don’t know if

I would make the hat

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

303
f l u s h a n d i n c u s ed.
M R . A N T ONUCCI:

We could do it.

We

c o u l d p u t t h e h at up on the rim a little bit.
M R . E V E RHART:

I would still shrink the

w h o l e t h i n g d o w n so it’s not covering half of
t h e l e t t e r s b u t just overlapping a little bit.
I t h i n k i t w o u l d make it pop.
M R . A N T ONUCCI:
t h e r i m , o b v i o u sly.

It can’t be higher than

No, that, we can’t do.

M S . W A S TWEET:

Yes, that’s what I’m

saying.
M R . W E I NMAN:

We’ve instructed the

a r t i s t s n o t t o do that, so I’ll leave it to
t h e d i s c r e t i o n of the Committee.

There is

n o t h i n g l e g a l l y that says we can’t, but
b e c a u s e w e h a v e instructed all the artists for
a l l t h e y e a r s n ot to do it, is it appropriate
to do it now.
M R . E V E RHART:

We have been overlapping

letters.
M R . A N T ONUCCI:

The problem is you have

t h a t r i m t h e r e , we can’t go above that, the

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

304
c o i n w o n ’ t l a y flat.
M R . J A N SEN:

It’s already at the peak;

right?
M S . W A S TWEET:

That’s what I’m saying,

y o u c o u l d m a k e it so it is still flush with
that table.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

I think the point

h e r e , f o l k s , i s that we just want to simply
g i v e t h e a r t i s t s some direction, that we would
l i k e t o s e e s o m ething done with the head.
L e t ’ s l e a v e i t at that.
M S . W A S TWEET:

Yes, my Motion stands at

l e a v i n g t o t h e artists and the discretion to
t h e A r t D e p a r t m ent to adjust the head where it
meets the rim.
D R . B U G EJA:

Second.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay.

Thank you.

I t ’ s b e e n m o v e d and seconded to do everything
t h a t H e i d i j u s t said.

Is there any question

a b o u t t h a t M o t i on?
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay.

All those in

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

305
f a v o r , p l e a s e i ndicate by raising your hand.
( S h o w o f hands.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:
unanimous vote.

It looks like it is an

Thank you.

Wait a minute.

I t ’ s a n u n a n i m o us vote, 11- 0.
W e h a v e at this point reached the end
o f o u r a g e n d a f or today.

We won’t adjourn

b e c a u s e w e h a v e business tomorrow, so this
w i l l b e a r e c e s s overnight.
I u n d e r stand we have a desire for
another Motion.

Heidi, I’ll turn the mike

over to you.
M S . W A S TWEET:

On the Civil Air

P a t r o l , o u r r e c ommended designs are obverse 14
a n d r e v e r s e t h r ee.

We have repeated devices

o f “ A c t o f C o n g ress” lettering.

My Motion is

t o r e m o v e “ A c t of Congress” from the obverse
a n d l e a v e i t o n the reverse.
D R . B U G EJA:

Second.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:
Heidi.

Seconded.

T h a t ’ s a good catch.

Thank you,

Any discussion

on the Motion?

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

306
( N o r e s ponse.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

All those in favor,

p l e a s e r a i s e y o ur hand.
( S h o w o f hands.)
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

It is an unanimous

vote.
I w a s a bout to say that tomorrow we
h a v e s o m e i m p o r tant business to look at.

We

h a v e t h e P l a t i n um Program that we are going to
t r y t o s e e i f w e can get two years out of it.
A l s o t o the staff, I’d like you to know
t h a t t h e r e s o l u tion that the subcommittee that
I a p p o i n t e d d e v eloped and is on our agenda for
t o m o r r o w c o n c e r ning an Arts Medal Program,
s o m e t h i n g t h a t this Committee has a lot of
passion for.
I f y o u have individuals on the staff
w h o m i g h t n o t h ave thought about being in the
r o o m t o m o r r o w f or this discussion who will
p l a y a p a r t i n that program, I’d encourage you
t o s e e i f t h e y can be here.
M S . A P R IL:

We have invited them

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

307
already.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay.

I think several

o f u s r e g a r d t h is as a huge milestone for our
C o m m i t t e e a n d f or the Mint.

If we can have

a l l i n t e r e s t e d staff in the room, I would very
m u c h a p p r e c i a t e it.
M R . N O R TON:

Mr. Chairman, before you

r e c e s s , w i l l y o u indulge me for a second?
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay.

It’s my

u n d e r s t a n d i n g t hat we will need to have an
a d m i n i s t r a t i v e meeting tomorrow at 8:00.

Our

t i m e t o r e c o n v e ne the current meeting will be
9:00.

W e w i l l get some direction from staff

w h e r e t h a t m e e t ing will be in the building.
M R . N O R TON:

Yes, sir.

C H A I R M A N MARKS:

We will be informed

o f f l i n e h e r e , but 8:00, plan on an
a d m i n i s t r a t i v e meeting.

Did you have

anything?
M R . J A N SEN:

If anybody has a travel

s h e e t , g e t i t t o me.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay.

Anything more,

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

308
staff?
M S . S T A FFORD:

I think we can go off

the record.
C H A I R M A N MARKS:

Okay.

We are in

recess.
( W h e r e u pon, at 4:39 p.m., the Committee
r e c e s s e d , t o r e convene the following day,
W e d n e s d a y , S e p t ember 24, 2014.)

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014

Capital Reporting Company

309
CERTIFICATE OF COURT REPORTER

I, CHRISTINE ALLEN, the reporter before whom the
foregoing hearing was taken, do hereby certify that
the witness whose testimony appears in the foregoing
deposition was duly sworn by me; that the testimony of
said witness was recorded by me and thereafter reduced
to typewriting under my direction; that said
deposition is a true record of the testimony given by
said witness; that I am neither counsel for, related
to, nor employed by any of the parties to the action
in which this deposition was taken; and, further, that
I am not a relative or employee of any counsel or
attorney employed by the parties hereto, nor
financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of
this action.

CHRISTINE ALLEN

(866) 448 - DEPO
www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014