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Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 1 CCAC MEETING DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY UNITED STATES MINT Friday, September 16, 2016 10:23 a.m. 801 9th Street, Northwest Washington, DC 20220 (866) 847-6290 Reported by: Dylan Hinds, RPR/CSR, Capital Reporting Company (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 2 A P P E A R A N C E S MARY LANNIN ROBERT HOGE ERIK JANSEN DONALD SEARINCI JEANNE STEVENS-SOLLMAN DENNIS TUCKER THOMAS URAM HEIDI WASTWEET (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 3 C O N T E N T S Page 1. Discussion of letter to the Secretary and 5 the minutes from the previous meeting. 2. Election of three expert jurors to 6 participate in a jury-designed competition for the 2018 Breast Cancer Awareness Commemorative Coin Competition. 3. Review and discussion of candidate designs. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 8 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 4 P R O C E E D I N G S MS. LANNIN: ...2016. And I understand we have a number of people calling in. And if you could tell us who you are, that would be most appreciated. UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: MS. LANNIN: (Inaudible.) Sir, could you repeat that, please, (inaudible)? UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: (Inaudible.) Kathy Open (ph) US (inaudible). MS. LANNIN: MS. STAFFORD: Okay. Want me to just have members of the public (inaudible)? MS. LANNIN: Do we have members of the press that are calling in? UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Mike (inaudible) with (inaudible). MS. LANNIN: else? Good morning, Mike. Any other members of the press? Thank you so very much. Anybody All right. So the members of the committee that we have present today are Robert Hoge, Erik Jansen, Donald Searinci, Jeanne Stevens-Sollman, (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 5 newly reappointed. Uram, Herman Viola. Wastweet. Welcome. Dennis Tucker, Thomas Herman's not here. And Heidi And myself, Mary Lannin. Okay. During this session, the Committee will consider the following items: The election of jurors for the 2018 Breast Cancer Awareness Commemorative Coin Design Competition, and also the review and discussion of candidate designs for the 2018, 2019, and 2020 American Eagle Platinum Proof Program entitled Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. Okay. So for the Mint staff, are there any issues that you need to talk about with us? to be. Okay. Doesn't appear So the first item on our agenda is the discussion of the letter that was in your packet to the Secretary, and the minutes from the previous meeting. Do we have any comments on those documents? No comments? I move to approve the minutes and the letter to the Secretary. MR. VASQUEZ: MS. LANNIN: right. Is there a second? Second. Robert? Okay. Thank you. All those in favor, say aye? (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 All Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 6 (All members say aye.) MS. LANNIN: Opposed? Great. Unanimous. All right. The next order of business is the election of three expert jurors from the CCAC to participate in a jury-designed competition for the 2018 Cancer, Breast Cancer Awareness Commemorative Coin Competition. And I'm going to ask Greg Weinman, who is the senior council for the CCAC from the US Mint to provide the background and the process for selecting those members of this committee, which will comprise the jury for the design. MR. WEINMAN: Thank you, Mary. On April 29, 2016, President Obama signed into law the Breast Cancer Awareness Commemorative Coin Act. This act directs the Secretary of the Treasury to mint and issue in 2018 five dollar coins, one dollar silver coin, five dollar gold coins, one dollar silver coins, and half dollar clad coins with the design emblematic of the fight against breast cancer. This law includes a unique provision under which the design of the coins will be selected by the (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 7 Secretary based on the winning design from the jury compensated design competition. The expert jury will be chaired by the Secretary or his designee, and will consist of three members from the CACC, who shall be elected by such committee, and three members from the Commission of Fine Arts, who shall be elected by such commission. This past May representatives from Mint and the Chair Person were charged with facilitating the election of the three expert jurors for this effort from among the members of the CCAC. To be eligible for election to the jury, a CCAC member much have sufficient time remaining in his or her term with the CCAC to complete the effort, which will, at least into the fall of, and probably into the spring of next year, I presume. Three eligible members expressed an interest in serving on the expert jury, jury, which will make this a very simple election for the CCAC. The three eligible members who have expressed an interest are, in fact, Dennis Tucker, Jeanne Stevens-Sollman, and Mary Lannin. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 8 With that, I'll turn it back over to Mary. MS. LANNIN: Okay. So I'd like to entertain a motion to formally elect these members as the three members from the CCAC. MR. VASQUEZ: MS. LANNIN: So moved. second? this? All right. Robert. Is there a Erik, would you like be second? MR. JANSEN: Second. MS. LANNIN: Thank you. Any discussion on All those in favor, say aye. (All members said aye.) MS. LANNIN: agreed to. Opposed? All right. Okay. The motion's April, you're up. MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. Since its inception in 1997, each American Eagle Platinum Proof Coin has shared a common obverse that features a portrait of Liberty. The reverse has been host to a variety of themed series, including Vistas of Liberty, the Preamble to the Constitution, and Torches of Liberty. To mark the 20th Anniversary of the program in 2017, the coin will feature the same obverse and (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 9 reverse designs that debuted at its beginning in 1997. As the Platinum Approved Program now enters its third decade, a new three year series will depict American artists' interpretation of the Preamble to the Declaration of Independence. Drawing inspiration from the program's past, the obverses of the coin in this series, not the reverses, will change from year to year. While the reverse, an American eagle, will remain consistent. The obverse of 2018 will represent life, 2019 will represent liberty, and 2020 will represent the pursuit of happiness. We asked artists to develop submission for all three years, creating designs that not only will represent each individual theme, but that also work together harmoniously to give expression to these core American principles of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Most participating artists also submitted optional reverse designs of American eagles to be considered with their obverse sets. In presenting these candidate designs to you today, we will first display the entire set submitted (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 10 by each artist. That is, we'll show you the obverse design for 2018, 2019, and 2020. If an artist included a reverse design to be considered, we'll also include that. After showing the complete set of designs submitted, I will then individually highlight each design compromising that set. At the end of the presentation, we'll again display the sets of the candidate designs for your consideration. Yesterday we presented this portfolio to the US Commission of Fine Arts and they recommended three sets in the following ranked order. So we'll start with first. Set 3 is the CFA's primary recommendation. The Commission appreciated this set's focus on three separate, but significant and connected segments of the Statue of Liberty. They stated that the designs are very strong both graphically and conceptually. Set 2 is the secondary recommendation. The CAF admired the simplicity of these designs and found the American flag background connected across all three designs would show in a triangular formation (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 11 clever. However, the Commission recommends that the 2020 obverse be reworked in order to convey the pursuit of happiness as opposed to what might be depicted here, which is perhaps a guarantee of happiness. Set 10 is their tertiary recommendation. The CFA felt that the subtle differences across the set makes these designs strong, noting the simplicity draws focus to the descriptive text and theme. They suggested the backgrounds be more varied, however, perhaps through different finishes. Additionally, the CAF noted that the changes in the flame were a bit too subtle. After reviewing all of the available reverses, the CFA recommends Reverse 9 to be paired with Set 10. So moving onto the candidate designs beginning with Set 1. This set is inspired by art deco reliefs and features an American eagle in the background of each design representing America's democratic government instituted among men to protect, defend, and secure the rights of its citizens. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 12 The obverse for 2018 depicts life in a symbolic form of a spring of water flowing into a man's hands as an American eagle guards and protects. 2019 expresses the core principle of liberty by depicting a man breaking through chains as an American eagle works to preserve and ensure his freedom. 2020 portrays a man in pursuit of happiness. He is on a journey reaching for his dream represented by the mountains ahead of him as an American eagle serves as his guide. The reverse for this set features a stylized American eagle as it takes flight. The sleek angular designs reflect efficiency, power, and resolve in this contemporary depiction of an American icon. Set 2, again the CFA's secondary recommendation with a reworked 2020 obverse, displays the principles of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness united by an American flag which flows across all three designs when displayed in a triangle formation. The obverse for 2018 features the sun upon (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 13 which all life is dependent. The flag signifies the dependency of our core American principles upon life. 2019 portrays the Statue of Liberty, her face turned toward the sun. The American flag flows behind her. 2020 depicts a family in silhouette with arms raised in joy and superimposed over the American flag. Reverse 2 depicts an eagle midflight with an olive branch firmly in its talons. Set 3, again the CFA's primary recommendation, depicts elements inspired by the Statue of Liberty, one of the most powerful symbols of America. The obverse for 2018 portrays Lady Liberty as an emblem of American ideals promising a new life through opportunity and freedom to seek liberty and happiness. 2019 conveys Liberty through broken shackles and chains, a representation of the right of selfdetermination. The design draws its inspiration from the actual sculpted broken chains that lay at the (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 14 Statue of Liberty's feet, part of the commemoration of freedom and democracy in the United States. 2020 features the Statue of Liberty's torch as a beacon for those pursuing their dreams and ambitions while also being afforded a life of freedom. The reverse for the set depicts an eagle standing, wings outstretched. Set 4 features allegorical figures inspired by classical symbolism, paying homage to the political thinkers of eras past who influenced the roots of American democracy. The obverse of 2018 depicts a female figure pouring water from a picture into a vessel representing the flow of life, rebirth, and renewal. 2019 presents a figure standing with a book of knowledge in one hand contemplating a key in the other. The key represents her self-determination to her liberty, to her future. 2020 portrays a figure holding a cornucopia representing earth's bounty and fulfilment when determination is employed in the pursuit of happiness. The reverse for this set shows an eagle (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 15 standing. Set 5 depicts allegorical figures in beautiful landscaped settings. The sun and star used throughout represent hope, destiny, and the potential for happiness. The obverse for 2018 shows a figure representing life awakening with the sun and celebrating the dawn of a new day. A single star represents hope. 2019 portrays Liberty holding a torch, representing enlightenment, burning with the constancy of a star. She illuminates the landscape behind her. 2020 represents exploration, pursuing her future in pursuit of happiness fueled by hope, symbolized in the star, the star in sight, but just beyond her grasp leads her on her, on her journey. Set 6 is a variation of the previous designs. So this is the obverse for Set 6 for 2018, 2019, and 2020. Moving on to Set 7. This set portrays Liberty planting seed for the future, lighting the way westward and harvesting well-worked crops. The (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 16 inscriptions life, liberty, and happiness are likenesses of the handwritten words from the Declaration of Independence. The obverse for 2018 features life personified by Lady Liberty teaching a small child to sow seeds in a field. The sword she carries symbolizes the power to defend life. The furrowed earth represents the forethought and labor required to sustain life, while the tree and stream represent nature, suggesting the need to be good stewards of our environment which sustains life. 2019 portrays Lady Liberty keeping watch over prairies, lakes, and mountains as pioneers head westward. The wild terrain featured in the background evokes the quintessential American spirit to explore new territory, the freedom to pursue new landscapes, new ideas and new ways of life. In the foreground Lady Liberty's lips are parted, suggesting freedom of speech. Her torch is an emblem of the guiding light that Liberty profiles while the book represents the rule of law and it’s equal application. 2020 depicts Lady Liberty harvesting the (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 17 fruits of her labor with a young girl playing nearby. The overflowing cornucopia she carries is a symbol of the physical, intellectual and spiritual bounty only liberty makes possible. The home, orchard, and silo represent American hopes, values, and aspirations and bring to a close the narrative told throughout the backgrounds of this series from furrowed earth, to prairies and mountains, and finally to an agrarian field. The inscription happiness, a facsimile of the handwritten word from the Declaration of Independence, includes the long S, a letter form which was typical of its time, but is no longer in common use. Set 7A, a variation of the set just seen includes the same obverse for 2018. For 2019, the variation includes wings on Lady Liberty, here symbolizing the freedom of movement, opportunity, and potential made possible by the preservation of liberty. 2020 includes the stubble field prominently featured in a scythe, which alludes to the ingenuity (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 18 and exertion required to claim liberty's promise. Set 8 features the primary design elements for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness set against the textured field. The obverse for 2018 renders life in the form of a branch of the official American national tree, the oak. The combination of existing leaves and newly growing acorns represent the cycle of life and natural freedom Americans are afforded as a direct result of the Declaration of Independence. 2019 depicts two hands nurturing and guarding the flame of Liberty. The flame lights the way for all Americans towards their inheritance of liberty and freedom. 2020 portrays a young girl with her arms wide open as if to embrace the joy which surrounds her. She represents the optimism and collective opportunity for happiness available to all Americans. The reverse for this set shows an eagle standing. Set 9 illustrates the progression of a female from infancy to adulthood. In each the figure (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 19 is accompanied by an American flag enjoying the protection it affords and holding an olive branch to symbolize peace. The obverse for 2018 depicts an infant symbolizing life, the first and most basic of rights. The swaddled infant clutches an olive branch, while in the background the American flag provides a protective environment. 2019 features a young girl symbolizing Liberty holding an olive branch. The American flag billows around her representing her freedom to grow in body, mind, and spirit. 2020 portrays a woman having been gifted with life and liberty now in pursuit of happiness. The olive branch in her hand represents peace, while the American flag she holds twists in her graceful turns as she explores the opportunity around her. The reverse for this set depicts an eagle in flight, an olive branch in its talons. Set 9A are variations of the previous set, close-up renditions of the designs just shown. Here is the obverse for 2018, 2019, 2020, and again, the (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 20 reverse. Set 10, the CFA's tertiary recommendation, features a close-up of the hand of the Statue of Liberty. The flames from the torch become visually more energetic underscoring how the inalienable rights Americans enjoy build upon one another. The obverse for 2018 depicts a torch held aloft by the hand of Liberty, its flames and rays of light flickering to life. 2019 portrays the torch, its flames and rays of light growing stronger, reflecting the strength of the American people once they've obtained life and liberty. 2010 shows the same torch, it's flame and rays of light intensifying fueled by life and liberty guiding the way in the pursuit of happiness. Other reverses for your consideration include Reverse 11, which features an eagle as it prepares to land. Reverse 12 shows a close-up view of an eagle, emphasizing its powerful form as it looks to the left. oak branch. Reverse 13 portrays an eagle grasping an And finally, Reverse 14 depicts a close- (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 21 up view of an American eagle's head. Madam Chair, that concludes the candidate designs. MS. LANNIN: have a question. Thank you so much, April. I CFA picked everything as sets? MS. STAFFORD: MS. LANNIN: Correct. That's correct. Okay. So I think that even though, sort of by my count, we have 11 or so groups of things to go through, I think I'd still like to do a culling process. We've got some really interesting art here and I'd like to spend our available time talking about what, what really works for us. So if we could start at the beginning. Vanessa? MR. Tucker: Do you want them culled by MS. LANNIN: By sets. MR. JANSEN: Yes. MS. LANNIN: So all those that would like to sets? keep, have an interest in Set 1? MR. VASQUEZ: MS. LANNIN: Yes. Yes. Okay. Set 2, please? (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 22 Any interest in keeping Set 2? MS. STAFFORD: MS. LANNIN: This was CFA, right? recommendation. This is a CFA secondary So I think we need to keep that and to talk about it, please. MR. VASQUEZ: Set 3? MS. LANNIN: Yes. Okay. MR. STAFFORD: Yes. MS. LANNIN: All right. interest in keeping Set 5? variation on that? Set 4? Okay. Yes. MS. LANNIN: Okay. MS. STAFFORD: MS. LANNIN: Set 8? 7A. Or, sorry, 7A. to keep 7, you also want to keep 7A? MR. HOGE: So if you want Okay. Was that a yes or a no on 7A? MS. LANNIN: Set 8? Set 7? Yes. MR. VASQUEZ: a no. Any Set 6, which is a Any interest? MR. HOGE: Set 5? I think it's a no there. Set 9? MR. HOGE: Yes. MR. VASQUEZ: Yes. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 It's Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 23 MS. LANNIN: And then we also have 9A. And then Set 10, which is also CFA's third recommendation. MS. WASTWEET: MS. LANNIN: Keep it in. Okay. So we do need to -- keep it in. So the ones that are definitely out are 5 and 6. MS. STAFFORD: MS. LANNIN: 7A. That's fair enough. And 7A and 8. Reverses? Should we go through the reverses? MS. STAFFORD: MS. LANNIN: Yes. Number 1. I think, I think it should just go without saying that if we kept the obverse set, that we should also really keep and discuss the eagle that matches that. with everyone? Is that fair So keep 1? MS. STAFFORD: You're looking at the unique eagles, correct? MS. LANNIN: MS. STAFFORD: The unique eagles. MS. FRANCK: So starts with –- MS. STAFFORD: 11. 11. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 24 MS. LANNIN: No? 11. So we're going to keep 11? 12? MS. EVERHART: MS. LANNIN: Yeah, I'd like to see 12. Okay. 13? No on 13. And 14 looks familiar to me. MR. HOGE: It's almost the same as the Olympic ones Elizabeth Jones did. MS. LANNIN: Right. So we're going to -– are we going to take 14 into consideration? Okay. Keep 14? eagles. So we've eliminated only 11 and 13 for the Okay. discussion? Dennis, may I ask you to begin the And I think we should take all three years and just go through it. let me correct that. We should, we should –- We should take all three years of a set and each of us talk about just that set and then we'll do the next set. MR. TUCKER: So do you want to start with Set 1 then? MS. LANNIN: Yes, please. MR. TUCKER: I think some of these design sets call upon the viewer to do maybe more interpretation than I might like to see and others (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 25 don't. I just wanted to mention that to start. understand the symbolism with Set 1. I I'm not a big fan of the execution of this stylized design. I, I think that's, that's the extent of my time. MS. LANNIN: Okay, Dennis, thank you. MS. WASTWEET: Tom? Do you want to do the full set? MR. TUCKER We're going to do the whole, the whole –MS. LANNIN: You were talking about the entire set; is that correct? MR. TUCKER: I am, yeah. MS. LANNIN: Yeah. MS. WASTWEET: I'm saying the whole package or –MR. TUCKER: All of these. MS. WASTWEET: MS. LANNIN: I think that's –No, I think we should go through –MS. WASTWEET: MS. LANNIN: Each one. Each of us talk about Set 1. Each of us talk about it. Okay? (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 26 MR. URAM: Madam Chair. Okay. No, I agree. I gotcha. Thank you, It's a little too stylized for, for what I think it would strike up as a coin and be difficult as a, as a series as it relates to the entire picture at this point. The retro is just a little too much for me as well. MS. LANNIN: Okay. Jeanne? MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Dennis and Tom. I will agree with both I don’t really like - and I will say this – I don’t like the figure. I don’t think it's, you know, drawn appropriately. I find that eagle on the reverse is too reminiscent of some of the eagles that we have seen in other countries back in the '30s. I don’t think that we want that to be our palette for this particular series. MS. LANNIN: Thank you. MS. SEARINCI: Thank you. I'm never in favor of retro anything and this is just art deco. So, you know, it's, it's, you know, it's a nice, productive art deco, retro, art deco, you know, but I'm, I just don’t like to see it. So I wouldn't go with this one. MS. LANNIN: Okay. Heidi? (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 27 MS. WASTWEET: I agree with Donald. We've asked in the past to see modern designs and maybe the artist was trying to give us something modern, but it's coming across as very retro and very nouveau without a purpose in being nouveau. And like I said before, the figure itself is not rendered attractively to me. The body's very stiff and I've made comments before about how important body gesture is in our figures and this is very inanimate and instead –MS. LANNIN: Okay. Thank you, Heidi. Robert? MR. HOGE: I think we, these designs are just inadequate and they have fascistic overtones we sort of mentioned. coin well. I don't think it would be for a It's got too many flat plains. MS. LANNIN: Erik, how about you? MR. JANSEN: I think my thoughts have been said already. MS. LANNIN: Okay. I, initially I liked this because I thought that the, the transition from figure to figure worked well, but I understand everyone else's comments. And so I don’t, I don’t (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 28 think this will work for us at all. MR. JANSEN: Yeah. I just want to say I commend the artist for stepping up and stepping out because of the set, this one really, really is different than the rest. So I commend the artist for, for their independence in this particular case. The art deco is, is I think easily mistaken for modern and it's distinctly different and I don’t think that's what we want to do here. This is the, kind of the flagship by denomination, by, by history of, of the eagle set. And so I think it doesn't just quite slide into the pedigree. MS. LANNIN: All right. Okay. Thank you very much. So we're up to Set 2, which was the CFA's second recommendation. MR. TUCKER: Statue of Liberty. Dennis, you're up. I look for a rendering of the I like the, the idea of incorporating a flag this way. I think that the styles of the designs are a little too different for this set to really gel as a set and I don’t think that they represent their subjects well. And I think the CFA commented on this, the (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 29 preamble to the Declaration of Independence mentions the right of the pursuit of happiness and not of happiness itself, which is what appears to be depicted for 2020. So I, I think there's, there are elements that I like about this set, but overall I don’t think it quite works. MS. LANNIN: MR. URAM: All right. Tom? And since I generally like to stay positive on, on the designs and only talk about the ones, it's tough to go around doing it this way. But I would just say that I'm going to pass. think it is creative. But I I like the idea of -– Britain actually had a set of coins where they made the shield out of it, like a six series, and that was very clever. I think this is too high of a denomination. To do that would be great for some other decibel coin that we have. point. But I would defer on Set 2 at this Thank you. MS. LANNIN: Jeanne? MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: I have to think about this as being a platinum and I think if we were making a clad quarter, this would be really terrific. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 It's Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 30 really in the vein of -- I don't think it really makes the mark. The sun for me is particularly not classy for the platinum and I think we need to think about what we're doing here. Liberty itself, second coin, I think is a nice direction by looking at it from under her. You know, you see her jaw, but we're looking at lay, running so differently than we'd see it on other coins as a frontal piece, but this whole set does not work for me. MS. LANNIN: MR. SEARINCI: Don? the eagle. I like the Liberty. I like I think the, the sun, the sun, I think I see what the artist was trying to do, but the personification doesn't work for me. And the, you know, I kind of feel this way myself because I just had (inaudible). You know, and I would like the, you know, design for something else, you know. wouldn't mind seeing it for something else. I mean I I don’t think it's the pursuit of happiness and I don’t think it's the, and I don’t think it's, and I don’t think it kind of -– I don’t really think it fits with it, the (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 31 platinum series of, you know, considering that we're talking about a $1,700 coin. So, so I, I, I -– that's my opinion. MS. LANNIN: MS. WASTWEET: Thank you, Don. Heidi? I agree with what Donald's saying and what Dennis said about them not going with each other and ultimately I won't support this set for this program. But I do want to call out what's good about it, which has been touched on here. The way the flag runs through all three is really fantastic. And this is what I was asking for and hoping for on the 9/11 set, to have this kind of continuity between the, the metals. I'd like to see this device used again in the future and presented to us. So let's keep that idea, keep that good thing going. I also like the use of silhouettes. So I'd like to see more silhouettes, more use of negative space. In this case the images are very literal in their, yeah, happiness, and we're looking for more symbolically. program. So it's, won't work in this particular But let's revisit those devices again in the future and props for that. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 32 MS. LANNIN: MR. HOGE: Thank you. Robert? I like the element of the combination using the flag here also, but I think the 2018 and 2020 designs really don’t go well with the 2019 because they're, the first and last are very flat and these coin up as very flat items, inappropriate for the sculptural effect of the head of Liberty on the 2019 issue. MS. LANNIN: Thank you. Erik? MR. JANSEN: First of all, thank you, Madam Chair, for breaking this review into set by set. I think it really gives us some, some really tight resolution on how the Committee feels. Otherwise, there are just too many images to, to get a true critical sense here. So thank you for breaking the analysis down. To the artist on Set 2, I love the idea of the flag pulling the set together; however, I think being marketed over a sequence of three years and a fairly low volume product, that concept doesn't lend itself to what might be more appropriate to a high volume, contemporaneously marketed set of products. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 I Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 33 know the, the, I think the English version when they took the layout of the shield, the power there was that they were all contemporaneously marketed. So they all came together at the same time in the marketplace. I don’t think that fits a three year plan here. So thank you to the artist. Hold that thought and hopefully in the future we have an ability to really deploy that powerfully. Thank you for that. Otherwise, I think it's, it's a mixed bag of, of, of symbols, and although the artist would want them to hang together with the flag, otherwise they don’t hang together at all in my view. different sets of feels. set. They're just so starkly So I'm going to pass on this Thank you. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Erik. completely with what you said. I agree When I looked at that, in the first place I thought this is a lot of money for someone to spend. So they could buy the first one and then maybe never buy the second or the third year. So we're asking for a really classy design for this. And secondly, I looked at that and thought I love the (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 34 idea of the flag going through all three coins in the way that we've shown it here. But it's as if someone gave them a partially completed drawing to three separate artists and said finish it up. hang together at all for me. theme is the, is the flag. And the only unifying So I can't, I can't get behind this one at all either. thoughts. Onto No. 3. They don’t So those are my Dennis, you're up. MR. TUCKER: Yes. MS. LANNIN: And by the way, this was, this is their number one choice for the CFA. MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Madam Chair. I, I think that these designs are very nicely drafted and I think they would make a really nice set of metals representing Liberty. Obviously the Statue of Liberty has all of these symbolic elements representing that concept. I think when we try to apply them, those symbols to life and the pursuit of happiness, it starts to feel a bit artificial. But nicely rendered and, and visually quite, quite attractive. But I don’t know if they accomplish what the series is intended to accomplish. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 35 MS. LANNIN: MR. URAM: Thank you. Tom? Thank you, Madam Chair. It's, I think these designs in looking at all the sets, I kind of favor these three. you think a little bit. It is creative and it does make It's not everything, but it is a nice set and it has the potential of achieving the goal. And so I would give some votes to this, this set. However, I'd like to comment on the eagle at this point. I would prefer a different eagle when we get to that. That eagle of any of the sets for that matter. So thank you, Madam Chair. MS. LANNIN: Thank you. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Chair. Jeanne? Thank you, Madam I, I like this set because it's probably the most symbolic work; however, I'm not really blown away by any of the designs. So I'm going to have to -– you know, I mean I like 2019 because it does break the chain. It is on the Statue of Liberty. It relates to everything -- everything in these designs relates to the statue, which is very good. I like that. But at the same time, to have it on the platinum, I'm not (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 36 sure. I'm going to reserve my opinion for that. And I will agree with Tom when we go to the reverse and I think we have an eagle that will fly higher, higher. Thank you. MS. LANNIN: MR. SEARINCI: Donald? this on? As to the art, it's -– is As to the art, it's all technically good and it's, it's all technically good, but, you know, my, my reaction is it's just, I'm just give a go on that, you know. Okay. We can do it. As far as the art in relation to the message, I'm not getting it, you know, the face of the Statue of Liberty for life, as a depiction of life. You got to really read the narrative to get it. Otherwise, I don’t get it. And the broken chains for, you know, you know, for Liberty, you know, its, its Liberty. It's really liberty, you know, the concept of, you know -Jefferson's view of John Locke and the concept of individual liberty is a very important concept that made its way from the Declaration of Independence into the Constitution and very important for all of those (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 37 people at that time. And, you know, at the time liberty from, you know the shackles of government, you know. I don’t think this, the shackles here would be perceived either by contemporary audiences quite that way. And then the, the flame for a pursuit of happiness and the flame from the Statue of Liberty, I don’t know that pursuit of happiness is the message of the flame of the Statue of Liberty. sure where we're going with that. fails. So, so I'm not So I think it I think it's good art, absolutely, even though its, you know, its, you know, kind of yawning. boring art. But it's good technically. Its I don’t -- it falls down on message completely. You know, it's just, I don’t see life. don’t see liberty. I in these images. I don't see pursuit of happiness So accordingly, I could not support this. MS. LANNIN: MS WASTWEET: for six years now. Thank you, Donald. Thank you. Heidi? I've been on CCAC In the beginning we saw a lot of what we dubbed storyboards, very literal (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 38 interpretation of ideas as if actors on a stage acting out the ideas. And we asked again and again to see symbolism and thankfully now we're seeing a lot more symbolism in the designs and I thank the artists for sending us that. Now we need to get the symbols right. what are symbols? Symbols are using a visual element to depict a nonvisual idea. And in our culture we have a language of symbols, commonality. knows a heart represents love. represents peace. colonies. Everyone An olive branch The 13 stripes on the flag are the Those 50 stars are the states. these things. And We all know These are common language in our culture. We can't take those symbols and then reassign those meanings and expect to communicate that way. So when I look at these, as Donald was saying, the symbols fall apart here. If I were to look at these broken chains and shackles at first sight, what comes to mind is slavery. that; I get slavery. I don’t get liberty from And the torch, this is specifically the torch of the lady Liberty in the (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 39 harbor and when I see that, I think about immigration, the, you know, welcoming to our teeming shores, you know, that whole bit, the lantern in the window, welcome home, welcome to our shores. I don't get pursuit of happiness. that's a stretch. I think Also on the face of Liberty, on the first one, I don’t get life from that either. And I'm, earlier today you in our admin. meeting we had a little short discussion about how those sculpts look different from the drawings. And as a sculpture, I'm learning that when I look at a drawing, I see something a little different than someone who's not a sculpture might see. Instantly in my mind I see a sculpture. So when I look at this lady Liberty head here, I see that that neck under her chin and that cheek, that's all one blank area because we don’t have shading like we do in the drawing. This is just a bit of an odd angle and it's not going to come through in the sculptures the way it does in this drawing. On the eagle here, I'm going to -– did you know that the wingspan of an eagle is up to seven-and- (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 40 a-half feet? Picture that. probably eight feet. span. These ceilings are That's, that's a wide, wide wing And when I look at this drawing, this wing looks like two feet. I really want to see the breadth of those wings when I see these eagles, and the wing on the far side looks like a different length and shape than the one on the foresight. keep that in mind with our eagles. MS. LANNIN: Okay. So let's, let's That's it. Thank you. Erik, I'm going to call on you right now. MR. JANSEN: As I went through the sets here, I kind of found myself trying to peel off and retain only the, the sets that match the pedigree, come together as a set, and convey symbology. This was one of three sets - seven and ten were my other two – that passed the pedigree and the compatibility screens, but when it came to symbology, if this were a series chartered to, or commissioned rather, to commemorate the Statue of Liberty, nice job. what we got. That's That just doesn't happen to be the charge. And admittedly as I sat back before I even (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 41 looked at the art to try to preconceive how I might go after life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness, it's a tough challenge. I mean we got a lot of happy people in these sets, but we didn't get a lot of pursuit. We got a lot of liveliness, but I'm not sure we got a lot of life. And so I think we missed the mark on the symbols here. On the eagle, I think we have a, we have an over-feathered gull here who's convincing as opposed to someone at the top of the pyramid who is defending with strength the notion of peace or celebrating the enjoyment of peace, which I think is what the, part and parcel the eagle needs to be. And I don’t want a gull on, on any of our coins, let alone on the top of the pedigree here. So I'm going to reject this set on symbology and I'm going to reject the eagle on almost abuse of symbology. MS. LANNIN: Or mythological reasons? MR. JANSEN: Or mythologically and I can't do anything with that better than to say yes. MS. LANNIN: Okay. Thank you. Robert? (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 42 MR. HOGE: Frankly I can't see why this would have been the first choice of the Commission of Fine Arts. These are not very strong designs and they keep, the Liberty is reminiscent of earlier coins we've already seen. The second one, the symbolism, I agree with Donald and Heidi about this, that this really represents the idea of servitude more than freedom. This was the argument in Set 293 against the first United States cents with the chain in reverse. know, same problem. You We forget about these things. The torch is not very powerful design for a coin. Doesn't look like an obverse or a reverse. And the eagle, I can't say anything good about that. This set doesn't work for me. MS. LANNIN: work for me either. Thank you. The set doesn’t I look at them because they're so pricy as individually buying something each year. would never buy 2019 of the set. negative for me. I It's too, it's too It's not, even though the chains are broken, it's just too scary to kind of look at. MR. TUCKER: Yeah, it's almost a negative (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 43 symbol. MS. LANNIN: It is, it is. And I love the way Heidi stated the use of symbology and we can't just sort of arbitrarily have us convey a new meaning to something that hung together. And Erik, I agree with you, this is a Statute of Liberty set. what we're charged to do. It's not So I can't -– even though this was the first choice of CFA, this set doesn't much do it for me. So I think we're onto Set No. 4. All right. So Dennis, would you like to began again? MR. TUCKER: Thank you. This set gets marks for having a cohesion with the designs. They're, I think they're obviously all from the same hand in a way that some of the other sets aren't. that's good. So I'm not fully convinced of the connection again to all of the rights that are under consideration, but I do think that this set gets closer than some of the other sets. And I think there's, again, we might be asking the audience to do more interpretation and heavy lifting in that sense than, than we might want (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 44 to. MS. LANNIN: MR. URAM: Thank you. Tom? Thank you, Madam Chair. I, I like this set a lot because of the cohesiveness that Dennis had mentioned there and I like the symbol. I like the idea that you have a person here that's looking down. sideways. forward. You have a person that's looking You have a look, person looking upward and So I think it does draw in, I think, once again, with the right eagle on the reverse. You could, it would be a very outstanding series because it has a lot of movement in it, very similar to Set 7, which would be similar to me, but it would have been nice had maybe you had life, liberty, and happiness in one of those, if you felt that you needed that, but I think it speaks well on its own. It makes makes you think about it and it's different enough for each one that it creates a very nice series. Thank you, Madam. MS. LANNIN: Thank you. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Jeanne. I agree with, I agree with Tom; however, I don’t like the symbology of what (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 45 I assume Liberty is doing. I mean we would have to have the public really interpret that. I don’t think that the drawings are, you know -- let's face it. If you're going to hold a cornucopia that's littered with fruit, are you going to do it like this? think so. It's too, it's too heavy. I don’t So the gestures are really not good. The key, the same thing. It's like it's just not any kind of grabbing onto these heavy books. It's a heavy book. Now she's just kind of like treating it as a letter or a piece of paper. those things bother me about this set. continuity of it. the faces. So I like the I like, I like the figure. I think those are very good. I love And so I give that artist kudos for what they did, she did or he did because it's very interesting. As for the reverse, it's very dovelike. know what? This isn't an eagle. that comment about that. So I have to make It kind of tops off my not, my unwillingness to support this set. MS. LANNIN: You Donald. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Thank you. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 46 MS. LANNIN: Thanks, Jeanne. MR. SEARINCI: I knew I wasn't going to have to say anything about the eagle. It's duly covered. So, so, so I agree with Jeanne. better than that. Donald? I can't say it any The, the, and first, you know, I mean my compliment to the artist for, for the, for the, for the vision and for the cohesiveness, you know, and, you know, that's, that's very good. However, here we are again. And I think there's a feeling of we have to put classical figures on coins for some reason. You know, we, we seem to have to, you know, put images like this on coins, that, that, you know, that, you know, touch the edge of the contemporary mind's ability to relate to is, it at all. And you know, I would have felt a lot better. I mean I think this artist, you know, certainly could have depicted a more, a more modern, a more modern woman or more modern women and more modern obverse that better display life. And if life is going to be displayed as water, there's a better way to do it than a jug and, you know, and just reverting to antiquity. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 47 You know, same thing with, with Liberty. That's, you know, this isn't quite clear, you know. The symbolism here for Liberty isn't quite clear. the pursuit of happiness is in a cornucopia. And I mean that's like a horn of plenty, you know, having enough, fulfilment. That's the pursuit of happiness. You know, it's, a cornucopia again is just, it's just not, you know. I just don’t think it's a -– this is just not a contemporary -- I just don't think -- I just don't think people in 2020, you know, in 2018, 2019, and 2020 are identifying with these things. So this just doesn't work at all for me as much as I compliment the artist and the technical skills and the vision of it. I think, I think this needs to go back instead of going forward just, just, just makes it, you know, makes it a negative for me. MS. LANNIN: MS. WASTWEET: Thank you, Donald. Thank you. Heidi? When I first saw this, several designs, I had the exact same reaction that Donald did. But I changed my mind. And this is where it's so important for us to hear from the artist in their own words about their art. Years ago we (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 48 asked the Mint can we hear something from the artist because sometimes we look at these and we go why'd the artist do that. We want to understand what that means and we got what we asked for. So when I read the artist's statement on this - and I'll read it to you - it says that this set features allegorical figures inspired by classical symbolism, paying homage to the political thinkers of eras past who influenced the roots and branches of American democracy." Now this give it purpose. We asked for modern designs and we choose modern designs when we get them and they're good quality, and we're seeing more and more of that, but we don’t have to have 100% modern designs. A lot of room for collectors like the classical designs and we hear this. Our last meeting was in Denver and we heard from the public and they told us we like classical designs too. And so I don't want to be closed-minded to the classical designs. And because this set does so with purpose, then I can get onboard. I see the Greek influence here and I remember my first trip to Rome (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 49 when I saw the Forum and I said, oh, my God, it looks like Washington DC. It really drove home to me the connection, the strong connection to our roots. And I think that that's a great idea for this set. Individually I like the symbolism of water as life. That's a very simple, basic symbol. Water is life. You can't have life without water. I like that. She's not just pouring it onto the ground. She's pouring it into a jug as if she's sharing life and that's the essence of woman. giving life. Giving birth is She's pouring her water into someone else's jug. And then the second one, I talk about -- I want to talk about combining then symbols to tell a story. Just like you combine words in a sentence. You can combine symbols to tell a greater story. here we have her carrying a book and a key. So So we cannot fully have liberty if we don’t have education that keeps us in the mindset to protect our, to protect our liberties. Now given the size of the coin, it's going to be hard to see that key in her hand. So I'd like (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 50 to suggest a little adjustment here. We don’t have to literally have her holding the key in her hand. If we simply move the key up into the field, we can move the date out of the way and just have the key above her hand in the field. Then it would be visible and clear and we can see the symbol of the key instead of having it lost in her hand. Also on the first one, I love the way her hair is also in the shape of waves of water. And then in the third one with the cornucopia, I agree with what Jeanne said. The way she's holding it doesn't, doesn't show the weight of the cornucopia. change. That's an easy thing that we can Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. We can, we can change that or maybe even ask the artist to revisit the whole idea of cornucopia. Is abundance really happiness? can do better. Maybe we But I don’t object to the, to the cornucopia. I do agree that the eagle can be swapped out with a better one. But for the obverses, I like this set a lot. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 51 MS. LANNIN: MR. HOGE: Thank you, Heidi. Robert? In first seeing this group, I was impressed with the classics as everyone else has been. And I thought immediately just who are these characters here? The first is like IGF (ph). a familiar term for us in these days? No. Is that It's a beautiful image and perhaps shows life and this idea of water. I like the fact that the classical draperies, a little bit different with each of these female figures. This is a wonderful representation of classical art and the designs don’t depend just on a lot of shading the way so many of these two dimensional come across. I like the difference in the facial features and the hairdos. set. It's a beautiful I'd like to see a few changes, though. As already been mentioned here, the idea of a key is not necessarily what we associate with liberty. So maybe that needs a little bit of development. Classically Liberty always is shown with a little, the little cap, the liberty cap, and most people don’t understand that today, but maybe that can (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 52 be incorporated into something like this. Maybe she could have a cap on her head instead of the Svengali, which can be seen here. For abundance, the third tie, abundancia, a cornucopia, this might be a good symbol of happiness for plenty, but classically this would be something different. Felicitas or hilaritas, you know. Happiness, hilarity, felicity. And these have their own symbolism in the classical repertoire. might see a little bit of a change there. So we Abundance is not necessarily the same thing as happiness and felicity. So -MS. WASTWEET: MR. HOGE: What would felicity carry? She carries a caduceus. It's a symbol of medicine. MS. WASTWEET: MR. HOGE: Oh. People might more likely recognize it. MS. WASTWEET: But I think today we associate that strictly with the medication. MR. HOGE: Maybe she could have a cornucopia and a caduceus. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 53 MS. LANNIN: It's a symbol of protection, I think. MS. WASTWEET: Health and abundance? That would be happiness. MR. HOGE: I would definitely throw out the, the strange-looking bird, which looks like a small winged pigeon, and not include that as part of the set. But I think that there's something here and there's consistency between these things. The presentation's got a lot of nice negative space, empty space. The figures are all consistent and proportional. I think it would be a good series. Each one stands on its own too. MS. LANNIN: also. Thank you. I agree with Robert Although we don’t always have the guide of mythology in our bookshelves, individually you could buy each one of these or any one of them or all three. I think that they're, that they're all really quite beautiful. I like the negative space and I would actually like to applaud the artist for the ethnic diversity in these, in this group. She's about to (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 54 lose that cornucopia. There's no way on earth that she can hold something like that. If a cornucopia were straightened or something, I'm not, again, necessarily sure that, that an overflowing cornucopia makes happiness, but I'm always happy when I eat. So I'm willing to go with that. Is it, is it necessary for us to eat and have the key in the second one? Perhaps just a gesture with a hand or -MS. WASTWEET: I think because of the book and the key together, that's what tells the story. Knowledge is the key to a better -- if you had just the key or just the book, it doesn't work. MS. LANNIN: drapery on the women. Okay. But I, I liked the I had a hard time with the art. That we have as varied as it was to have something that I thought would hang together as a series and these three women I believe hang together. Whether we all agree it fits our interpretation of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is separate from that. And the seagull reverse, I don't think so. I think we're all going to pick a wonderful reverse (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 55 for whatever we choose for the obverses. Donald, you'd like to say something else? MR. SEARINCI: You know, it's interesting 'cause what I, what I'm hearing, what I didn't hear is anyone having a problem with the 2018 design. answer on the 2018 design. And the So if we, if in the end we come back and want to do this set, what we could do is make the request that, like we're good with the 2018 design and go back to the same artist and ask the artist, you know, to give us something else, you know, to work on. And then come back to us for 2019 and 2020. And then maybe that same artist could even, if there's time, could even do a better eagle so that we can keep the vision. Because one thing I love about what's doing, what we're doing here, is the same artist. If we can't, if we have to pick a different eagle, then I'm sure there's a favorite. I'm sure you have favorite eagle. So, but maybe, you know. Anyway, that's something we can come back to if this is, this is a set that people like. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 56 MS. LANNIN: Okay. Great. Thank you. Erik, what do you feel about this? MR. JANSEN: Compatibility, check. Pedigree, check. Symbology, hey, this is really nice variations on Lady Liberty. wonderful. Ethnicity, Classic symbols, again they're all there; although cornucopia usually pours out as though its sharing the, the, the bounty and isn't worried about spilling it. So I think we just missed it on the symbology and I've listened to the comments from the team here and I think we're like trying to stretch this to make it work. And I don’t think that is -- I think this series needs to hit it more clearly and not be kind of nudged to get close enough to be okay. So I'm going to reject the set out, outright. And I think we have destroyed the anatomy of this clay bird on the back enough. MS. LANNIN: much. All right. Thank you very I believe we are, we've passed on Set 5. passed on Set 6. We've passed on Set 7. MS. WASTWEET: No. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 We've Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 57 MS. LANNIN: We have not? I couldn't read my own writing. Oh, 7A. Sorry. So Set No. 7 is next. And Dennis, if you'd like to start? MR. TUCKER: Yes. Thank you. In my opinion, these designs were most representative of the rights that they've been assigned to depict. And I think the, the script messages strengthen the symbolism. I like seeing life, liberty, and happiness spelled out. I think that will help the viewer. they need help. I like the designs. If You know, they definitely are again from the same hand and it's nice to have that continuity throughout the three year program. Something I worry about is, are the designs a bit too finely detailed and I'll let our sculptors and artists speak more on that. But the central figures are bold and centralized and I think that carries the main weight of these designs. And then it'll be up to the mint staff to figure out how to get every spoke into every wagon wheel. MS. LANNIN: MR. URAM: Thanks, Dennis. Tom? Thank you, Madam Chair. I like (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 58 this set as well. However, as I've mentioned this in relation to Set No. 4, I once again like the varying degrees of the ethnicity that we saw in Set 4. However, I think there's a whole lot going on in all of these that the simplicity of Set 4 lends itself to the size of the coin in the, in looking at maybe 2018 and getting the renderings for '19 and '20 that might be more refined to keep it with that. So as much as I like Set 7, I think there's just a whole lot going on. I like the depictions of Liberty, but I think there's just -- I like the symbology of Set 4 compared to Set 7 here even though I like Set 7. Probably would give it a few votes. But it wouldn’t get my ayes. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Tom. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Jeanne? Thank you. When I first looked at this, it was, these drawings are very nice. I liked the fact that we have this woman, Liberty, is very outstanding. of the movement. background. postcard. She is strong in terms I was concerned about the I thought maybe we're getting another But actually I believe this might work. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 59 It might work because I like the writing. like life, liberty, and happiness. very clever. I The butterfly is nice. I think this is When it's struck out we'll probably just have a little blob on a coin. I'm not sure. But it is a fine -- when I think about the platinum, this is, okay, you're going to spend a lot of money on it and you want to have a lot of information. Yeah, maybe. But I think the background can probably drop back in the foreground of the figures, be very strong, I believe. This to me would work. I like the fact that we have a lot of negative space and its similar to No. 4, but it's giving us a little bit more information. So I like this set very much and I think we have an eagle that would be (inaudible) to make that whole set phenomenal. MS. LANNIN: MR. SEARINCI: Thank you, Jeanne. Donald? If it were a choice between this one or 4, I would go with this one because of the, I like the life, liberty, and happiness of the script. You know, it's the same, the same thing and (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 60 here we are with liberty. know. There's a cornucopia, you Happiness, the liberty and happiness is not smiling probably because the little kid's running around chasing a butterfly, you know. is. It is what it I mean we've got the sword in life, you know, you know, you know. I mean we'd have to have the sword in there. So, so we're just doing the same thing. But if, if we're going to have to do one of these things, and if it's a choice been 7 and 4, you know, and liberty has to look like that, then I'd probably go with 7, if that were the choice. MS. LANNIN: Heidi? MS. WASTWEET: going on for it. I think this set has a lot I think having the, the baby on the hip and the seeds really nails the symbology of life. Just as we talked in the first set today, the art nouveau set, how the body gesture wasn't there, the body gesture is all here. gesture. This is, really nails the I would take out the sword because I don’t think the defense of life is a symbol for life itself. I would drop that. I do like the river in the (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 61 background. But let's talk about busyness and detail on -- we talk about this almost every meeting, about what is the appropriate amount of detail for the size of the palette and we're still seeing too much detail for the size of the palette. And I think that maybe we're not expressing ourselves fully in what we mean by busy. So what came to mind for me was Weinman's Walking Liberty. drapery. You've got a full figure with full There's a flag. think all of oak leaves. There's branches, all are, There's a sun. mountains in the distance. Capitol Building. it works. There's She's got sandals on. The There's a lot going on there, but Why does it work? Because it's pared down to the essential details. There's no more mountain there than you absolutely need to convey that there are mountains. If we look at this design, the mountains in the background, there's just too much going on in those mountains. It's not the size of the mountains. not the fact that there are mountains there. It's It's the (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 62 way that they're rendered. And the tree, there's practically every leaf on that tree and the rose and the landscape could have been simplified and the details throughout could have been simplified to make this work. It's not that there's too much on the coin. It's just that there's too much within what's there for the scale of the coin. Like Mary has said, as we're looking at these, we're considering the price point. We want a lot going on there. We don’t want super simple on this like we're asking for on the quarters. We want super simple. Here we want a lot going on, but we don’t want to be busy. It has to be organized. right amount of detail. It has to have the So these could have been improved if there had been a boiling down of the details to the essentials. The second one here with the, the wagon, again, we have all the tumbleweeds in the foreground. I like the wagon, but it could have been just a silhouette and it would have been actually more. could do more with less because it could have been You (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 63 visible. As it is now when you look at the coin, the tumbleweeds and the oxen and the wheels and the spokes, it's all going to disappear like it's not even there. And the symbology here of her gesture, the torch and the book and her mouth, I think she's singing and that doesn't say liberty to me. These, this combination of symbols isn't necessarily telling the story. I think the wagon in the background is telling a story of liberty. The freedom of movement. Liberty is a type of freedom to move around, to go where we want to go. But because there's so much detail in that wagon, it's going to get lost as if it's not even there. So that losses it a bit for me. The child pursuing the butterfly, I think that really nails the symbolism of happiness. happiness in this child. I see But here the cornucopia, again, too much going on in that cornucopia. Every strand of the wheat, instead of simplifying the wheat, there's too many stocks of wheat and so it's not going to read well on the coin. And the farm in the background could have been just a silhouettes again. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 64 So this could be been done a little better. I also don’t like the way the liberty, the word liberty on the first and third one runs over the figure. We're trying to get a lot of depth out of these coins and I want to see these figures come to life. But when you run those tiny letters into a three-dimensional image, it doesn't work the way it does on paper. That's going to need to get moved if we go in this direction. MS. LANNIN: MR. HOGE: And that's it. Thanks, Heidi. Robert? This is actually my favorite, but I have to agree with all the comments that have been made heretofore. I think the word liberty can actually be withdrawn from the 2020 designs and perhaps placed in tiny letters on the coronet of Liberty as was done in the classical American coins in the 19th century. And it wouldn't apply in the second one, the 2019, because you can't see where the coronet would be. You've got a nice floral wreath. And that way you have consistency. I like especially seeing the handwritten life, liberty, and happiness here, but boy, happiness (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 65 looks profoundly unhappy. MS. LANNIN: MR. HOGE: Yes, she does. What is going on here? I mean you can't have that face right next to the (inaudible). So this is bad. If we could change her, give her a smile, put a little coronet on her with liberty, I think that might do the job better. Also the cornucopia is just improperly rendered. She's supporting it okay. its set forward. It's not like You know, it has to weigh almost nothing to balance on her fingers, but here it needs to be in the actual classical manner where she's supporting it and you can see that there's, you know, it's full. There's something in it, but it's far too busy. These three pieces all have too much background as we've noted. And I think that this could have been done much better if on one we perhaps see it like a coastline. mountains. Another one we see the Another the plains, I mean symbolizing the entire country as we move through progressively. see furrows here on the 2018 and the 2020. We These are (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 66 not all that much different. We just don’t see mountains on the third one, only in the first two. The covered wagon, think of the great Oregon Trail design by Laura Gard and Fraser. There we see it, you know, across the world, much bigger. have been done as a silhouette. busy. It could These are all too They all have too much in the, the not so distant foreground. And then we don’t see Liberty's feet on any of these. They're not really balanced. And in terms of the presentation, Set 4 was actually better. But this one I think has a little bit more going on that might be popular. Thanks. MS. LANNIN: Thanks, Robert. Erik, what do MR. JANSEN: This is my choice for the, for you think? the series. Yeah, this obviously, it hits pedigree. It's compatibility. And of all the sets on here, I think this one comes closest to getting the symbology at least on the mark and a lot of that comes from the pursuit of happiness version because the pursuit of happiness I think necessarily requires the thematic, the artistic capture of pursuit and that's what we (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 67 got. We got a little girl pursuing happiness and, you know, in an abstract way her parent here, her mom pursuing her happiness through her child's pursuit of happiness. So we really get pursuit here. So I actually like that. And it almost stands out amongst all the sets as our best choice here. I think the, I don’t like text on the, anymore than anybody else does, but the scripting of the life, the liberty, and happiness I think turns it into something other than pure text. It gives it a dimensionality into our artisan. I don’t like the third one. flappings (ph). So I think in the sculpting, that probably needs to be cleaned up. would like this set. the time. I read that as Thomas Jefferson He was the agrarian thinker at He certainly wrote the document here that we're going after. And so I respect the Old English stylized big S in happiness, but I think for the recognition in cleaning up the sculpt of the happiness text, I would suggest just two conventional Ss so as not to turn this into an IQ test for the buyer. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 68 The background comments, Heidi I think totally nailed this thing. You look at the gold eagle, you look at the silver eagle, you see this kind of inclusion of symbols, but they need to be, they need to be less is more. more something? Is that a verb, to less and And so again, it falls onto the sculpting team to, whether by eliminating detail, lowering relief, dropping it into the background. I'm reminiscent of the Sacagawea dollar that was done a handful of years ago where we have some horses running on the horizon in the background and we didn't get hung up on the anatomy of the horses, just the silhouettes did the job and it adds the energy to the, the entire equestrian thing of the coin. So there we have that and I think it can be managed quite well. I guess I'm, I'm trying to inherit the letter we will send to the Secretary of the Treasury here and I think not withstanding the opinion of the director of the mint that might go along with our opinion and the CFA's opinion, I think the Secretary of the Treasury's going to be really confused here as to what to do. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 69 And so I'm going to recommend that the committee, whatever we choose, let's try to really put some energy behind our preference so we don’t add to the confusion here. We've got three recommendations coming from the CFA. strength of that. We don’t know the relative If we come forth with two or three with a lot of modifications, it's just going to become a mush for the decision maker and I think we owe them a little more tight rendering of our expertise than to let that mush just flow through and say we did our job 'cause I don’t think we will have. So I'm going to encourage us to concentrate our voting on however we end up. choice. This is clearly my Thank you. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Erik. In terms of this, I like the implied motion of the figure. You can imagine that she's just turning after watching her child scatter seeds. She's striding forward. She's stepping behind her daughter as she's going for the butterfly. I thought that this hung together nicely. I really like Robert's idea of the land and plains and see just a real simplification of the back. But (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 70 again, I don’t know how much we can, we can do of that. I have no problem with the script. I do believe that the traditional Ss -MR. SEARINCI: No, the script is taken from the Declaration. MS. LANNIN: Okay. Okay. Yeah. So it has to stay. I can, I can see that, but I do, I think that we have an easier selling, if you were, of the symbols on this series than we do of Series No. 4; although, Series No. 4 is cleaner to look at. But this requires less explanation and I do like the motion that's inherent in this. And it will hang together and you would buy any one of these individually, I believe, as well the set. Jeanne, did you want to say something? MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: I'd like to add to this because it seems like we're all kind of moving, gravitating to this piece. Heidi says. But I agree with what But I'm wondering if we did choose this set, can we recommend that, you know, we use maybe silhouettes of maybe the barn and the wagon and (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 71 everything become silhouettes or cutouts? let that drop. And, and Let those backgrounds drop back so she comes forward more. I, because I think this does help the collectors, those of us who will hold it in our hands and appreciate this imagery. MS. LANNIN: So I have to say that. Thank you, Jeanne. All right. The next one we have is Set No. 9. MS. WASTWEET: 9A, want to do both? MS. LANNIN: 9 and 9A we'll do together, if MR. JANSEN: Can I -- MS. LANNIN: Sure. MR. JANSEN: -- comment on that? we could. Part of the, kind of the reformation that we went through on the voting last meeting, one could argue 7 might have been combined; although, there's some very distinctive elements in 7A that would say don’t combine 7 and 7A in the voting or in the discussions. But I think 9 and 9A, yes, cropping does change the design absolutely. However, again, to try to, to streamline the discussion as to focus a design (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 72 we can then back into the differences between 9 and 9A. So to April and your staff, merge for simplicity of process, please, because we can always tease out the difference between say a 9 and a 9A. So thank you for doing that. MS. LANNIN: So your saying that you would be okay with combining, let's say, 2018, 9, with 2019 9A? MR. JANSEN: In this case, yes, because we're not losing information. We're just trying to clump it a little more specifically to speed our process. Thank you for that. MS. LANNIN: No problem. No problem. MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Madam Chair. Dennis? really like this design for 2018. new father. I I'm a relatively I have a seven month old baby, Ava (ph), so she's a little bit older than this little one here, but I think this, this depiction will appeal to a lot of people. Everyone loves babies. Similar to Steve Roach's statement last time, everybody loves turtles. A comparison. But there's a human interest factor at (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 73 work here. Yes, baby turtles. I would also point out that wording of the preamble to the Declaration of Independence actually mentions the inalienable right to preservation of life and not just to life. And I think that's depicted here very well with the swaddling of the baby. don’t have a naked newborn infant. So we We have someone who is wrapped up and protected and protected by the swaddling and protected by the flag in the background. And the olive branch perhaps adds to that concept of peace. So I like that design. And then I love the action in the 2019 and 2020 designs. I think they're well-rendered depictions of, of a woman dancing with a flag. I almost feel as if our colleague, Bob Hoge, has invited us to Barcelona and (inaudible). So there, they're nice renderings. I don’t know if they really spell out what they're intended to spell out, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. So I think that's a complication. And to kind of go back subject to our discussion of the last set, I think the congressionally-mandated wording of liberty on each, on all of these coins, you know, (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 74 it has to be there. It's in the legislation. That's complicated by, by these sets because one of the symbols is liberty. And I want to express my appreciation of Bob Hoge's suggestion that liberty can be incorporated in coronets and depicted that way to satisfy the legislation and harken back a bit to our (inaudible) history. Anyway, those are my comments for this set. I like, I like the infant. I don't know the other obverses really capture the other inalienable rights. MS. LANNIN: MR. URAM: with Dennis as well. Thanks, Dennis. Tom? Thanks, Madam Chair. I agree I think the 2018's a wonderful design, and as you move on to the other years, they're just as you had the art deco in No. 7-1, this is the other extreme of that and it's just a little bit too happy for, for what I'm looking at as it relates to the series. So I'll listen to the other comments by my other colleagues here, but I kind of, if I was picking here between 9 and 9A, I do like 9A and the fact that (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 75 the, not as, not as demonstrative, but it has more emotion without -- the '19 and '20 are just, can't get ahold of that. So anyhow, I'll listen to my colleagues further, but I'm probably declining. Although I will say that the eagle's my favorite. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Tom. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Chair. Thank you, Madam I have to agree with Tom. wonderful. Jeanne. The eagle is by far And I think that this eagle could be paired with some of our other choices. As far as '18, 2018, I like Dennis's comments very much, but, you know, I think that the life with our previous set, No. 7, was depicted a little better. I just like that better. I think that 2019, 2020 really challenges us to what we are trying to depict here. eagle wins and the others don’t. MS. LANNIN: So for me, the Thank you. MR. SEARINCI: Thanks, Jeanne. I like 9A. Donald? I like the set the most of everything that we've seen largely for the reasons that Dennis is articulating, but also because I think we're, you know, I think we're just seeing a (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 76 contemporary first, contemporary depictions. The, you know, the choice of a baby for life, that's a good symbol. The argument will be, you know, it will be, okay, so where is liberty, you know, in the pursuit of happiness. And, and you could imply liberty in the carefree, you know, you know, happy nature of, of 2019, but then where do you find the pursuit of happiness in 2020? So that's the only argument that I could really make against it. But I think overall as a complete set, you know, of nice designs with contemporary images without harkening back to the same old stuff that we produce all the time, I think, I think I would support, I would support this set above everything else we've seen. MS. LANNIN: MS. WASTWEET: Thank you, Donald. Heidi? I think this is a really sweet idea to have the aging over the three coins and I wish we had a program where this would fit, but I don't think that this fits our life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Yes, the baby represents life, but the 2019 looks more like the pursuit of -- well, (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 77 it looks like happiness, not the pursuit of happiness. Just happiness. And then because it's an aging thing that I think is this Lady Liberty or is this just an American girl. I'm not sure. very much. I do prefer the cropped version I like that variation. But let's talk about text a little bit. One thing I see a lot in all of our packets is the lettering looks like it's just squeezed in afterwards. It's not part of the design and a good test for this when I'm designing a coin myself, and I want to remind myself to incorporate the text into the design, what I do is I ask myself if I took the lettering off, would the design look like it's missing something. And if the answer's yes, then I've done it right. And when I look at these and if I imagine these with no text on it, there's nothing missing. It's just an afterthought. it can fit. It's squeezed in wherever It's not part of the design. it detracts from rather than adds to. And I think I think the other sets are better for this program. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 78 MS. LANNIN: MR. HOGE: Thank you. Robert? This is an attractive set. I particularly like the 2018 image of the little infant. I think the crop version is probably superior. But I have to agree with Heidi that these things look a little bit too crowded all together. For the 2019 series, I mean this is like an anorexic ballerina. I don’t know if that's really appropriate for what we want to say as liberty. the flag? And also what is this with I mean this is, I mean is this Dora Duncan performing in 1916 or something? These are attractive designs. I especially like the eagle; although, I am a little bit troubled with the left wing. I don’t know if it's being truncated there or if that's the actual contour of the wing. I couldn't tell for certain from the drawings. But I do like that reverse particularly. I think this is an attractive set. I don't think it works as well as some of the other designs, though. MS. LANNIN: Thank you. Erik? MR. JANSEN: This one is not even close in (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 79 my book. It's kind of like baby happy-happy as opposed to something that we might be asked to have done here. I do like the reverse and to me the only reason not to choose this reverse would be to save it for the next modern Liberty metal. MS. LANNIN: Thank you. I enjoyed the movement in 2019 and 2020, but what does it mean? like the child. I If I had to choose between these two sets alone, I would choose the one that is cropped. But I think that we're asking the public who's buying this to search pretty hard for liberty and the pursuit of happiness in 2019 and 2020. The eagle on the revere of No. 9 is by far my favorite and I believe that it is fine if we pick only the reverse to match with other obverses that we choose. So that would be my comment on that. So we are down to No. 10, which is the CFA's third choice. Dennis, would you like to begin, please? MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Madam Chair. is an interesting concept. This I think the design focusing on the Statue of Liberty's hand and torch is (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 80 attractive and individual collectors might collect these individually. I like the inclusion of the inscriptions like liberty and pursuit of happiness because they, they assist the viewer. I think, though, that these designs really don’t capture the concepts that they should. MS. LANNIN: MR. URAM: Okay. Tom? Thank you, Madam Chair. I would agree and I think that someone might buy the first one and not buy the others. I think because they're looking at it really as the liberty torch and I don’t know that that covers the entire theme of the three years as accurately as some of the other designs, but I think it was a nice concept. But I just don’t think that it's going to work for the whole series. So I'll have to decline. Thank you. MS. LANNIN: Thanks, Tom. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Jeanne? I agree with Tom. I think that when I first saw it, I had to look hard to see that the flames were different. very much like the concept. Oh, I like, I I liked the, the (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 81 narrative that went with this. I think when you do look at it, it's very interesting. However, I don’t believe it really depicts symbology like we would like to see, like the pursuit of happiness on these coins. And so I can't support this then. MS. LANNIN: Thank you. MR. SEARINCI: Thanks, Jeanne. Oh. Donald? It's not even worth discussing. MS. LANNIN: Thank you. Heidi, would you like to discuss it? MS. WASTWEET: I think Tom nailed it when he said some people might buy the first one, but if it were me and I bought the first one, which I wouldn't, I would lose interest by the second and certainly the third year. I think it'd be fun to have this as a set of quarters in your pocket and then like in discovery process which of the three variations is it because they're subtle. That would be fun. And the simplicity of it would be really appropriate for a small circulating shallow coin. For the price point, for the prestige and the level of a platinum, just no. Thank you. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 82 MS. LANNIN: Okay, Erik, would you like to MR. JANSEN: I would only say when you're comment? voting, focus your votes so we can send a crisp message to the Secretary. MS. LANNIN: with Heidi. Subtle, very subtle. I agree Yeah, it's, we're asking people to spend a lot of money and someone will say didn't you already buy that and not get the, the liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I agree with Jeanne. It, the difference between the flames wasn't really distinctive enough. And Robert, would you like to comment on this, and then I would like to read -- Herman can't vote 'cause he couldn't be here, but I do have his comments on all of these designs and I'd like to read those into the record. So Robert, you want to talk about this one? MR. HOGE: I think these would all be nice for reverses, first of all. This is not a very interesting proposal for a series. It's sort of like going, going, gone or blowing in the wind. It's just not something that's really going to appeal to the (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 83 public as far as I'm concerned. It's not that they're badly done, but that's about it. MS. LANNIN: Okay. Thank you. All right. This is, these are the comments from Herman. "I found the entire portfolio extremely impressive. Many of the images could stand alone artistically. Too bad one cannot scissors and paste and put a series together that way. 9. My favorite eagle is Reverse No. I think that that is -- the most creative set, is Set 2 with the flag watching across all three proof coins. Too bad the reverse eagle cannot replace the eagle on that set. "The set I think works best is Set No. 1. Is it, probably would get my best of class vote, but I depend on what my colleagues say because they are much more knowledgably about what has been done in the past here and elsewhere. Herman." So I would like to call for a 15 minute break. We can vote and then come back and –- Greg, did you have something to say? MR. WEINMAN: Two things quickly. I'll be quick. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 84 MS. WASTWEET: We haven't discussed the eagles. MS. LANNIN: Okay. So good point. Are we discussing -- quickly, Dennis, what do you think for the eagles if were all separate and we could match them with anything that we've looked at today? MS. STAFFORD: I think the only ones will be 12 and 14. MS. LANNIN: Just 12 and 14? All right. MR. TUCKER: I'm sorry, 12 and 14? MS. LANNIN: Twelve and fourteen as independent. MR. TUCKER: Oh. I know eight was not under discussion, but it reminds of Laura Gard and Fraser's design for the 1932 George Washington quarter. I agree with what everyone -MR. STAFFORD: Sorry. interrupt really quickly? Could I just Actually all of the other reverses that are part of the sets are of course in contention as well. We just wanted to point out that of the single reverses, I believe the committee just opted to discuss 12 and 14. But all the other (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 85 reverses are, of course, on the table as well. great. MR. TUCKER: Oh, okay. MS. LANNIN: First your comments. That'd be Okay. MR. TUCKER: I think I'll -- I'll concur with the general consensus. I've heard about No. 9. I think it gets to the reality of a flying eagle better than many of the designs. Twelve and fourteen are very marshal or war-like which, you know, is not necessarily bad symbolism for, for a protective eagle. I like the motion of No. 9. I think that has my, my strongest vote. MS. LANNIN: MR. URAM: Thank you, Dennis. Tom? Thank you, Madam Chair. I concur, No. 9 was my favorite all the way through; although, I do like 12 and 14. There are some things there, but it just has more of a freedom look to it versus the war-like as Dennis had mentioned. I just like that it's a, it's a bird in flight, in motion. I like that a lot, No. 9. MS. LANNIN: Thank you. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Jeanne? I agree. No. 9 first (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 86 of all looks like an eagle. It has the wingspan of an eagle and I particularly like the way the artist has brought that wing around so it's actually cupping the air. So its coming in. doing. It's, you know what its I think that this is probably one of the most successful eagles that I've seen. Even though we've had some great eagles in the past, I think this is well done. this. So congratulations to whoever produced Thank you. MS. LANNIN: Thank you. MR. SEARINCI: good. Donald? You know, obviously No. 9 is I also like No. 2. I also like No. 11. But, you know, I think we can go with No. 9 for this series. MS. LANNIN: MS. WASTWEET: Thank you. Heidi? I think that the proper choice for the eagle depends on what we choose for the obverses. If we go with the Greek series, I think Reverse 8 would pair nicely. If we got set, you know, that we're kind of favoring Set 7, and I think Reverse 9 would pair well with that. I also like Reverse 14, but as someone else said, it's a little bit too war- (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 87 like for this program. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Heidi. MR. HOGE: Reverse No. 9. That's it. Robert? I'm strongly in favor of eagle No. 11 I think looks like a belligerent budgie. And No. 14 I like. I like the striping strong huge head of the eagle, but perhaps it’s a little bit too aggressive. But very effective. Some of these other designs are also pleasing, but I think 9 is certainly clearly my favorite. MS. LANNIN: Thank you. MR. JANSEN: No. 9 and that's not just a Beatles' lyric. Erik? And I would like to ask the Mint staff to keep No. 14 coming back. If you -- every time I go to a zoo or I live in the Pacific Northwest and I get the opportunity to see an eagle, and I have a nest right over my house, they look belligerent. Let's be, you know, it is. Sometimes I wake up to -- if you've never heard or you don’t know what a bald eagle sounds like, come to my house. But they look just like this. that eye. They have And so please, bring No. 14 back to us. Thank you. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 88 MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Erik. I too -- No. 9 has the most eagleness (ph) of any for me, but in addition to bringing back No. 14, I also think that at some point Reverse No. 12 would be appropriate for something. I just really, that very wary eye that's looking at you. You know, it's curiosity, but it's just don’t get to close. saved. So I would like to see those Any other discussion? MS. WASTWEET: It's a great segue into our merit system. MS. LANNIN: MS. WASTWEET: Yes. Exactly. Yes. If you like a design, but it doesn't fit the program, give it a merit vote, please. MR. JANSEN: And thank you to the Mint staff for making the, the look and feel of our, of our tabulation page so distinctly different that you give merit where merit is due and give votes where you want your impact to be. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, and thank you to everybody who went through all of that subcommittee for tweaking our voting procedure. So I would like to ask you to take a moment and vote and turn them into (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 89 Greg. 12:30. And then we will take a break and resume at Is that fair? Did you have something to say, April? MS. STAFFORD: MS. LANNIN: MR. WEINMAN: No. No? We wait until we come back. 12:30 is good. MS. LANNIN: 12:30's good? Okay. Thank you. (SESSION BREAK) MS. LANNIN: We're missing Dennis. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: MS. LANNIN: Okay. But -All right. Greg, would you like to report out the vote? MR. WEINMAN: We are getting printouts which we'll hand out to everybody. MS. LANNIN: MR. WEINMAN: Thank you. But, so -- yes. Set 1, we received one vote. Set 3, one vote. course were zero. Yeah. For For Set 2, zero. For For Set 4, 13 votes. 5 and 6 of Set 7 is the winner with 21 votes. Set 8 has zero votes. Set 9 and 1, set 9A had seven (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 90 nos. And Set 10 had zero votes. Moving down to the reverses, which was a bit of a landslide, the ones receiving votes were Reverse 8 had four. two. five. Reverse 9 had 24 votes. And Reverse 12 had two. Reverse 11 had And then Reverse 14 had Once again, we have the actual printout shortly here. MS. LANNIN: Okay. MR. WEINMAN: Thank you. But receiving the majority of votes was, in fact, Set 7 and Reverse 9. MS. LANNIN: much. All right. All right. Thank you very Does anyone -- Dennis isn't here, but does anyone like, want to make any motions about - Robert? MR. HOGE: I would like to. I'm strongly in favor of Set No. 7, but only with rather severe reservations pertaining to the subjects that we'd addressed. I would like to submits this for revision by the artist. I mean the themes are fine, but some of the technical aspects. For instance, elimination of the word liberty on the first and the third of the coins. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 91 Maybe incorporating tiny lettering of liberty onto a coronet without a change to the design. Perhaps reduction of the background or modification or simplification so that they don’t look so busy and so that they present more of a theme, changing from one to the other that is shown here. Consideration of the use of a silhouette in the background rather than these very detailed, extremely tiny representations. Maybe elimination of the sword. We've discussed this sort of thing too. I'd like to see a re-thinking of this. Maybe we could have this done quickly and do some curing, but I just don’t see this going as a, as a set as it is right now in terms of our vote. MS. LANNIN: MR. HOGE: Okay. So your motion -- My motion is that this, we select Set 7 as we have already voted, but that we do so with these reservations and stipulations, that it be reconsidered. MR. JANSEN: MR. HOGE: And happiness spelling. And the happiness spelling. Maybe make it look a little bit less like flapiness (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 92 (sic). Maybe consider modifying the second to the last S as well. Just reconsideration of these things. I'd like to see some revisions. MR. JANSEN: Second the motion. MS. LANNIN: All right. All in favor of Robert's motion to simplify and -MR. HOGE: And modify. MS. LANNIN: selected Set 7. All in favor? MR. JANSEN: comment. -- modify and tune up our And Erik, you said -- Well, I was just going to add a I thought his idea of incorporating the liberty in the coronet is both a classic and therefore valid and really clever way of eliminating this, this, this awkward liberty's got to be on each coin because it'll be there. It'll just be so subtle that it won't detract from the artistic impact. MS. LANNIN: done in one motion? So can that, can that all be Greg? MR. WEINMAN: Either way. You can put it all in one motion of your opinion or do a motion (inaudible). MS. LANNIN: You want to do it motion by (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 93 motion? MR. HOGE: Does the motion necessarily need to demand a send back to the artist, or could it include discretion to the sculpting team? MR. STAFFORD? We work with both. We work with both instances depending on -MR. HOGE: Because I know that they can be confusing sometimes and I want to be really enabling of these changes. MS. LANNIN: So why don’t we have the record reflect that Robert made a motion, a complicated motion. You seconded it, Erik. And then piece by piece we will go through the motion and just vote aye or nay. How's that sound? So to simplify the elaborate background, all in favor? (All votes aye.) MS. LANNIN: Unanimous. To add liberty to the band -MR. HOGE: As a coronet. MS. LANNIN: As a coronet. All in favor? (All votes aye.) MS. LANNIN: That's unanimous. Sorry, (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 94 Robert, what was the other ones? MR. HOGE: Well, the whole series of -- MS. LANNIN: MR. HOGE: To remove the sword. To remove the sword. lot of the background detail. To remove a Possibly to change themes a little bit to show kind of a screen of consistency as I suggested. country perhaps. things. Different parts of the We have mountains in two of these We have lakes or rivers in two of them or whatever it is. We see the plains with furrows, plowed furrows in two of them. I'd like to see something a little bit different for each one. Just redo the background, landscape. MS. LANNIN: So a sub-motion to distinguish the landscape in all three years to be something that is unique to that coin, land, sea, whatever. MR. JANSEN: Donald? To visually simplify it. We talked about removing superfluous detail, which I think Heidi made the point almost referring back to the way the Walking Liberty has similar background elements that don’t distract. MS. WASTWEET: Well, we already had a motion (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 95 for simplifying. So this is a separate -- MS. LANNIN: That was the first one that passed. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: need. I think that's all we Yeah, that's all we need. MS. WASTWEET: So far as far as changing the, the landscapes, do we have a second? MS. LANNIN: I think that's going to be part of this -MR. HOGE: Well, the carry them all as a motion and second. MS. LANNIN: It's a different motion? MS. STAFFORD: It wasn't mentioned the first one. MS. LANNIN: go around. Okay. It wasn't mentioned the first Let's get just through Robert's first thing. So we're putting liberty on the band, on the coronet. That motion passed. MR. HOGE: Well, the third one doesn't really have a coronet. So that head would need to be modified, so. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: But it doesn't need it (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 96 because liberty -MS. LANNIN: Because the word liberty's right there. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: MR. JANSEN: It's already there. Well, I think the idea would be to remove the incused liberty at the 6 o'clock position in '18 of the '20 models. MS. WASTWEET: Yeah, the problem is the way the liberty rules over the three dimensional relief of the design in a way that's not practical other than on paper. MS. LANNIN: This is getting to be a very confusion motion. MR. JANSEN: Well, the idea is to, to subtly include liberty on each coin? MS. LANNIN: Yes, exactly. MR. JANSEN: Okay. And then the '18 and the 2020 version, it would be in the coronet band? MS. WASTWEET: Right. MS. LANNIN: Yes. MR. JANSEN: And the '19 version, it is there by intention? (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 97 MS. LANNIN: Exactly. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: And it could just be a tiny bit smaller so that it doesn't overlap. Just have to, you know, the crossing of the T, which is actually in the background, it should be on the surface. That T is crossed incorrectly. just, you know, make it a little shorter. And the Y, And that'll be fine. MR. JANSEN: And we have to add a band or coronet on the third liberty head, happiness. MS. LANNIN: Okay. All right. MR. JANSEN: The head doesn't really need to change that much. MR. EVERHART: on that? One comment before we proceed Would you put a coronet and the word liberty on there, at that size, are you going to be able to see it? MR. HOGE: it's there. Is that important? As long as The complies with the legislation, right? MR. EVERHART: Well, it's not my question to answer. MS. LANNIN: Greg? (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 98 MR. WEINMAN: marks. We've obviously used privy We've obviously used privy marks in the past and so I think it has to, obviously it has to be there. Whether or not it is easily seen, it probably doesn't go to -- will comply so long as it exists and see will be perceived on the coin. MS. LANNIN: So to simplify this, we have agreed to simplify the background. passed. That motion Donald? MR. SEARINCI: Yeah, I'm, I'm just in a suspension on these things. I don’t want to vote no, but I'm not going to guess. MS. LANNIN: MR. SEARINCI: Okay. MS. LANNIN: I don’t like to -- MR. SEARINCI: So noted. MS. LANNIN: -- with the artist. MR. SEARINCI: So noted. What we're about to do, I don’t like to do. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: I think what we're saying just helps the striking of this wonderful series a little better. It's not -- I don’t think (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 99 we're messing with it. So long as we don’t dictate how those, that background, that landscape goes. All I would like to see is a -- I like the background the way it is. Just make it a little more simple. know, just take away some of it. redo it. You You don’t have to And I, I don’t think I want to redo it. But to say simplify in this motion I think is fine. MS. LANNIN: And that, and that did pass, was to simplify it with one abstention. So the motion to add liberty to the coronet on 2018 and 2020 also passed. With one abstention. MR. TUCKER: Madam Chair? MS. LANNIN: Yes, Tom. MR. TUCKER: Just to clarify, in addition to putting on the coronet, it would be removed from its current placement. MS. LANNIN: Exactly, thank you. be motion sort of part of No. 2A. That would We would take liberty away from 2'18 and 2'20 at the bottom. MR. EVERHART: Madam Chair, can I add something here? MS. LANNIN: Certainly, Don. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 100 MR. EVERHART: incused and polished. won't be polished. As it is now, it'll be If we raise the lettering, it It will not attract as much attention and it'll coin easier. That's just an option I'm throwing out there. MS. LANNIN: Leaving liberty where is it right now? MR. EVERHART: Yeah. MS. STAFFORD: It will be much less bold, will blend in the background. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: If you did leave it there, can you, instead of putting it straight across, can we, can we curve it so it kind of goes along with In God We Trust? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Sure, we could do that. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: something new here. Because liberty's -I'm going to put I thought we sort of had chatted about this when we reviewed these for coinability purposes, that putting liberty over top of that level of artwork with the different relief is going to be problematic. I thought the plan was to fade out the (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 101 bottom part of that design so it could be lowered or read, but you won't be able to read liberty on top of all that artwork. It's going to be very hard to see that. MS. LANNIN: True. MS. WASTWEET: And I think your solution of fading out the artwork to accommodate the liberty is a solution for the technicality of it, but I think it compromises the art. And so I would be more in favor of moving the liberty, and therefore, removing the coinability problem. MS. LANNIN: So I heard you say removing the liberty. MS. WASTWEET: From its current placement and moving it to the coronet so it's legally there. MS. LANNIN: And I believe that that motion has passed. MS. WASTWEET: MS. LANNIN: Yes. I think a sort of separate, and heard Robert's initial motion that we remove the sword? MR. HOGE: Yes. That can be -- do you want (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 102 to remove it or -MS. WASTWEET: I feel strongly that the sword should be removed. MR. TUCKER: I disagree just because of the wording of the preamble talks about the preservation of life and I understand what the artist is trying to convey this there. I see the conflict, though, but I understand the artist's intent. artist's intent, I should say. I agree with the I know you understand it as well, but you're disagreeing. MS. WASTWEET: Yeah, I think sword goes beyond preservation to, to another level of violence in order to -MS. LANNIN: I, I understand what Dennis is saying, but I, I agree with Heidi, but for a completely different reason. I wouldn't be sewing seeds with a child with a sword around my waste. MR. TUCKER: Yeah, yeah. MS. LANNIN: So I think it needs to be removed just on that grounds. MS. WASTWEET: And it contributes to the busyness. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 103 MS. LANNIN: busyness. And it contributes to the So Greg, do we need a separate motion to remove the sword? MR. WEINMAN: MS. LANNIN: It would be simpler for us. Okay. I make a motion that we remove the sword from the 2018 Set 7, number one. in favor? Or somebody want to second? MS. WASTWEET: I'll second. MS. LANNIN: favor? All Three against. Heidi will second. All in Does not pass. MR. SEARINCI: I abstain. MS. WASTWEET: You abstain. MR. JANSEN: It's a tie. MS. LANNIN: It's a tie. So it's a tie? So it's, it doesn't happen. MR. WEINMAN: Do you have (inaudible)? MR. JANSEN: Yes, we still have 7. We still MS. LANNIN: So it's three to three with one have 7 -- abstention. MR. WEINMAN: MS. LANNIN: So the motion fails. Motion failed. So she's sewing (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 104 whatever she's sewing? MR. JANSEN: We need to ask for affirmative. You didn't ask for nos. I might abstain. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: I was going to abstain also. MS. LANNIN: All right. MR. JANSEN: I'm abstaining. MS. LANNIN: One no. MS. WASTWEET: All nos, please? So it passes. MS. LANNIN: What do you know. Thank you. All right. How many more parts of your initial motion, Robert, are we trying to squeeze in on one vote? MR. HOGE: The others are, first of all, to modify the figure of liberty that's shown with happiness on the third one. Make her smile. She doesn't look happy. MS. LANNIN: Do we need a motion for that? MS. WASTWEET: I don’t think so. I think on the coin that because of size of it, you won't know. MR. HOGE: Well, the little girl looks happy here. MS. WASTWEET: And that's what matters. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 105 MR. SEARINCI: Well, if you want to make her happy, get rid of the butterfly. The kids running around -MS. WASTWEET: MS. LANNIN: It's the pursuit. That's the pursuit. That's the pursuit. MR. HOGE: I just think that, you know, there's a quality about the way she's presented there that doesn't look happy. Pursuit of happiness, maybe the little girl and the butterfly, yes, but the Liberty figure -- and also, the cornucopia needs to be redone. It's just far too busy. MR. TUCKER: MR. HOGE: As a book publisher -I hate to be doing this modifying the art by committee, but I think that it's important here because these designs are really quite beautiful. I think they'll be very effective. It think that there are various problems that need to be addressed. If we don’t put this into some kind of a statement, it's not going to happen. MR. TUCKER: As a book publisher, I know that people will be seeing these designs larger than (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 106 the struck coin. MS. WASTWEET: MR. TUCKER: Right. to six inches or more. They'll be seeing them blown up You know, if a coin is featured on a book cover, it'll be very large. So there are opportunities for people to see the nuances of the facial expressions. MS. STAFFORD: less stern. We can certainly make her Less unhappy. Just because it's in the drawing, doesn't necessarily mean it will be that way in the sculpture. MS. LANNIN: record. So your comments are on in the Greg says we don’t need a motion on that. MR. WEINMAN: I don’t think you ever voted on the distinguished landscape and make it -MS. STAFFORD. Yes, we said simplify the elaborate background. MR. WEINMAN: MS. FRANCK: We did. Okay. My apology. Yes, but to make one costal, get rid of the -MR. STAFFORD: MR. WEINMAN: I don't think -That was a possibility. (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 That Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 107 was the motion. MR. HOGE: redo those. We'll leave it to the artist to But I like the suggestion be available. MR. WEINMAN: MS. LANNIN: It's on the record. else? It's on the record. Anything You needed to say something? MR. WEINMAN: Once we, moving past this particular topic, I just wanted to mention for the record sadly, unfortunately, Steve Roach has resigned from the CCC for a very short tenure because he has accepted employment with the Treasury Department. And so we will be, we'll miss him in the CCAC, but glad he's working with the federal government. We will be, therefore, seeking a new member to represent the interests of the general public and will be posting for that position soon. MS. LANNIN: further business? Thank you. So if there's no I move to adjourn. MR. SEARINCI: Second. MS. WASTWEET: Second. MS. LANNIN: adjourning say aye. Thank you. All in favor of All those opposed who want to (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 108 stay here through lunch? (Whereupon, at 12:47 p.m., the meeting concluded.) (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 109 CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC I, Dylan Hinds, the officer before whom the foregoing proceeding was taken, do hereby certify that the proceedings were recorded by me and thereafter reduced to typewriting under my direction; that said proceedings are a true and accurate record to the best of my knowledge, skills, and ability; that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties to the action in which this was taken; and, further, that I am not a relative or employee of any counsel or attorney employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. Dylan Hinds Notary Public in and for the District of Columbia My commission expires: Notary Registration No.: (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting 9/16/16 110 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER I, Penny Knight, do hereby certify that this transcript was prepared from audio to the best of my ability. I am neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties to this action, nor financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. 9/20/16 DATE Penny Knight (202) 857 - 3376 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016