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Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 1 1 CCAC Public Meeting 2 3 4 Moderated by Dr. Lawrence Brown 5 Tuesday, October 24, 2023 6 10:01 a.m. 7 8 9 The U.S. Mint 10 801 9th Street Northwest 11 Washington, DC 20220 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 Reported by: Matthew Yancey 20 JOB NO.: 6043314 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 2 1 2 3 4 A P P E A R A N C E S List of Attendees: Dr. Lawrence Brown, Representing the General Public and Chairperson of the CCAC 5 Jennifer Warren, Director of Legislative and 6 Intergovernmental Affairs and Liaison to the CCAC 7 Arthur Bernstein, Representing the General Public 8 Dr. Harcourt Fuller, Recommended by the Speaker 9 of the House 10 Kellen Hoard, Representing the General Public 11 Dr. Christopher Capozzola, Specially Qualified in 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 American History John Saunders, Recommended by the House Minority Leader Mike Moran, Recommended by the Senate Majorite Leader Darla Jackson, Specially Qualified in Medallic Arts or Sculpture Greg Weinman, Senior Legal Counsel and Counsel to the CCAC 21 Michael Costello, Manager of Design and Engraving 22 Megan Sullivan, Senior Design Specialist www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 3 1 2 A P P E A R A N C E S (Cont'd) List of Attendees (Cont'd): 3 Roger Vasquez, Senior Design Manager 4 Pam Borer, Design Manager 5 Donald Scarinci, Recommended by the Senate 6 Minority Leader 7 Dennis Tucker, Specially Qualified in Numismatics 8 Dr. Peter van Alfen, Specially Qualified as a 9 Numismatic Curator 10 11 April Stafford, Chief, Office of Design Management 12 Boneza Hanchock, Design Manager 13 Russell Evans, Design Manager 14 Sukrita Baijal, Design Manager 15 Brendan Tate, Senior Government Affairs 16 Specialist, Office of Legislative and 17 Intergovernmental Affairs 18 Mike White, Office of Corporate Communication 19 Don Ferencz, Son of Benjamin Ferencz 20 Michelle Duster, Great-Granddaughter of Ida B. 21 22 Wells Daniel Duster, Great-Grandson of Ida B. Wells www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 4 1 2 A P P E A R A N C E S (Cont'd) List of Attendees (Cont'd): 3 4 Shannon Browning-Mullis, Executive Director of Juliette Gordon Low Birthplace 5 David Rubin, Son of Dr. Vera Rubin 6 Karl Rubin, Son of Dr. Vera Rubin 7 Allan Rubin, Son of Dr. Vera Rubin 8 Jean Milbern, Mother and Executor of Stacey Park 9 Milbern 10 Joel Milbern, Father of Stacey Park Milbern 11 Jessica Milbern, Sister of Stacey Park Milbern 12 David Milbern, Brother of Stacey Park Milbern 13 Kristie McNally, Deputy Director, United States 14 Mint 15 Paul Gilkes, Amos Media Coin World Senior Editor 16 Mike Unser, Founder and Editor CoinNews Media 17 Group 18 19 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 5 1 C O N T E N T S 2 EVENT/AGENDA ITEM PAGE 3 Call to Order & Roll Call 8 4 Review and Approval of Minutes and Letters 5 to Secretary from the April 18, 2023, 6 Public Meeting 7 8 9 10 Introduction and Swearing-in of New CCAC Member 15 Comments from the Chair for the 2025 American Women Quarters 12 - Stacey Park Milbern for the Benjamin Ferencz Congressional 15 Gold Medal 61 Review and Discussion of Candidate Designs 17 for the 2025 American Women Quarters 18 - Ida B. Wells 19 26 Review and Discussion of Candidate Designs 14 16 19 Review and Discussion of Candidate Designs 11 13 14 113 Review and Discussion of Candidate Designs 20 for the 2025 American Women Quarters 21 - Juliette Gordon Low 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 152 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 6 1 C O N T E N T S (Cont'd) 2 EVENT/AGENDA ITEM 3 Review and Discussion of Candidate Designs 4 for the 2025 American Women Quarters 5 - Dr. Vera Rubin 6 PAGE 192 Review and Discussion of Candidate Designs 7 for the 2025 American Women Quarters 8 - Althea Gibson 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 215 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 7 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 MS. WARREN: Good morning. 3 Jennifer Warren, the liaison to the CCAC. 4 are attending remember, this, unless you are a 5 liaison, is listening only. 6 off. 7 Dr. Brown, I will hand it off to you. It is 10:01. 8 DR. BROWN: 9 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: DR. BROWN: Those that So your mics are closed And we will be starting. 10 This is And Good morning, everyone. Morning. I call to order this 11 meeting of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee for 12 Tuesday, October 24, 2023, at 10:01 a.m. 13 first day of a two-day public meeting. 14 session is scheduled to run approximately until 4:30 15 p.m., at which point, the CCAC will recess and -- 16 recess until tomorrow's session that is scheduled to 17 begin promptly at nine o'clock tomorrow morning. 18 This is the Today's I would like to remind the public, who 19 are participating via phone, that this is a listening- 20 only meeting. 21 microphones. 22 And we ask that you please mute your Before we begin, I want to introduce www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 8 1 the members of the committee. 2 respond "present" when I call your name. 3 4 Please, members, Arthur Bernstein, representing the general public. 5 MR. BERNSTEIN: Present. 6 DR. BROWN: 7 recommended by the speaker of the House. Dr. Harcourt Fuller, 8 Is Dr. Fuller online? 9 MS. WARREN: 10 DR. BROWN: 11 MS. WARREN: 12 DR. BROWN: 13 MS. WARREN: 14 DR. BROWN: 15 Yeah. He's online. Dr. Fuller, are you there? Harcourt, you're muted. I'm going to move forward. Okay. Kellen Hoard, representing the general public. 16 MR. HOARD: Present. 17 DR. BROWN: Dr. Christopher Capozzola, 18 specially qualified in American history. 19 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 20 DR. BROWN: 21 22 Present. John Saunders, recommended by the House minority leader. MR. SAUNDERS: Present. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 9 1 2 DR. BROWN: Mike Moran, recommended by the senate majority leader. 3 MR. MORAN: Present. 4 DR. BROWN: Darla Jackson, specially 5 qualified in medallic arts or sculpture. 6 MS. JACKSON: 7 DR. BROWN: 8 9 Present. Donald Scarinci, recommended by the Senate minority leader. MR. SCARINCI: 10 DR. BROWN: 11 qualified in numismatics. 12 MR. TUCKER: 13 DR. BROWN: Present. Dennis Tucker, specially Present. Dr. Peter van Alfen, 14 specially qualified as a numismatic curator. 15 DR. VAN ALFEN: 16 DR. BROWN: Present. I am Lawrence Brown, 17 representing the general public and proud to be the 18 chair of the CCAC. 19 I believe we have a quorum. We do. 20 The agenda for today's session includes the following. 21 Approval of the minutes and the letter of the 22 secretary from the April 18, 2023, meeting. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Swearing Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 10 1 in of Dr. Christopher Capozzola to the CCAC. 2 and discussion of the candidate designs for the 3 Benjamin Ferencz Congressional Gold Medal. 4 and discussion of the candidate designs for the five 5 2025 American Women Quarters. 6 DR. FULLER: 7 DR. BROWN: 8 Review And review Oh -Dr. Fuller, I believe that's you? 9 DR. FULLER: I'm present. 10 DR. BROWN: Thank you, sir. 11 Before we begin our proceedings, I ask 12 the U.S. Mint Liaison to the CCAC, Ms. Jennifer 13 Warren, if there are any members of the press who have 14 remotely signed in for this public meeting? 15 MS. WARREN: Thank you, sir. 16 And Paul Gilt, from Amos Media Coin 17 World, senior editor; and Mike Unser, founder and 18 editor of Coin News Media Group. 19 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 20 For the record, I would like to also 21 confirm the following U.S. Mint staff attending the 22 meeting today. Please indicate "present" after I have www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 11 1 called your name. 2 Deputy Director Kristie McNally. 3 MS. MCNALLY: 4 DR. BROWN: 5 Present. April Stafford, chief of the Office of Design Management. 6 MS. STAFFORD: 7 DR. BROWN: 8 Megan Sullivan, senior design specialist. 9 MS. SULLIVAN: 10 11 Present. DR. BROWN: Present. Roger Vasquez, the senior design manager. 12 MR. VASQUEZ: 13 DR. BROWN: Pam Borer. 14 MS. BORER: Present. 15 DR. BROWN: Russel Evans, design 17 MR. EVANS: Present. 18 DR. BROWN: Boneeza -- Boneza -- I'm 16 19 Present. manager. sorry. I always mess up that name. 20 MS. HANCHOCK: 21 DR. BROWN: 22 MS. BAIJAL: Boneza Hanchock. Present. Sukrita Baijal. Present. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 12 1 2 DR. BROWN: Mike Costello, manager of design and engraving. 3 MR. COSTELLO: 4 DR. BROWN: Present. Jennifer Warren, director 5 of legislative and intergovernmental affairs, and 6 liaison to the CCAC. 7 MS. WARREN: 8 DR. BROWN: 9 Present. Greg Weinman, the senior legal counsel, and counsel to the CCAC. 10 MR. WEINMAN: 11 DR. BROWN: Morning. Present. Brendan Tate, senior 12 government affairs specialist, Office of the 13 Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs. 14 MR. TATE: 15 DR. BROWN: 16 Present. And Mike White, Office of Corporate Communication. 17 MR. WHITE: Present. 18 DR. BROWN: Thank you. 19 And finally, I just want to note for 20 the record that we will be joined later on the call by 21 the liaisons for the Benjamin Ferencz Congressional 22 Gold Medal. That includes Don Ferencz, the son of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 13 1 Benjamin Ferencz. 2 Also, we will be joined by the 3 following liaisons for the 2025 American Women 4 Quarters Program that includes: 5 great granddaughter of Ida Wells; and Daniel Duster, 6 the great-grandson of Ida Wells, for the 2025 Ida B. 7 Wells American Women's Quarter. 8 9 Michelle Duster, the We will also be joined by Shannon Browning-Mullis, the executive director of the 10 Juliette Gordon Low birthplace for the 2025 Juliette 11 Gordon Low American Women's Quarter. 12 We will be joined by David Rubin, Karl 13 Rubin, and Allan Rubin, who are the sons of Dr. Vera 14 Rubin, for the 2025 Dr. Vera Rubin American Women's 15 Quarter. 16 Jean Milbern, the mother and executor 17 of Stacey Park Milbern; as well as Joel Milbern, the 18 father of Stacey Park Milbern; and Jessica Milbern, 19 the sister of Stacey Park Milbern; and David Milbern, 20 the brother of Stacey Park Milbern, for the 2025 21 Stacey Park Milbern American Women's Quarter. 22 And finally, we'll be joined by Donald www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 14 1 Felder, who is the cousin and executor of Althea 2 Gibson, for the 2025 Althea Gibson American Women's 3 Quarter Program. 4 I'd like to begin with the Mint to find 5 out: are there any other issues that need to be 6 addressed at this time? 7 Hearing none, the first order of the 8 business for this committee is to review and the 9 approval of the CCAC minutes, and the letter to the 10 secretary of the Treasury from our public meeting on 11 April 18, 2023. 12 Are there any comments? 13 Hearing none, is there a motion to 14 approve the minutes? 15 16 MR. BERNSTEIN: Bernstein. I move approval. 17 DR. BROWN: 18 DR. VAN ALFEN: 19 Is there a second? Peter van Alfen, second. 20 DR. BROWN: 21 objections to the motion? 22 This is Arthur Okay. Are there any other Hearing none, all those in favor www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 15 1 signify by saying "aye." 2 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: Aye. 3 DR. BROWN: 4 It sounds that motion is unanimous. 5 The second order of business is the All those who disapprove? 6 introduction and swearing-in of the newest member of 7 the CCAC, Dr. Christopher Capozzola. 8 Dr. Capozzola was appointed on May 29, 9 2023, as a new member specially qualified in American 10 history. 11 associate dean for Open Learning at the Massachusetts 12 Institute of Technology. 13 us who, in fact, really -- familiar with MIT -- he 14 teaches courses in political and legal history, war 15 and military, and history of internal migration. 16 17 He is a professor of history and senior At MIT -- as we -- those of Deputy Director Kristie McNally will, in fact, administer the oath of office to the doctor. 18 Deputy Director? 19 MS. MCNALLY: My day is successful, as 20 I did not trip on all these cords, so -- 21 All right. 22 At this time, I would like to officially welcome Dr. Christopher Capozzola to the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 16 1 Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee. 2 To expand on what Dr. Brown has already 3 mentioned about Dr. Capozzola, in 2018 as a professor 4 at MIT, he received the Mac Vicar Faculty Fellow, 5 which is MIT's highest honor for undergraduate 6 teaching. 7 Additionally, Chris is active in public 8 history. During the centennial of the first World 9 War, he co-curated The Volunteers: Americans Join 10 World War I, 1914 to 1919, a multi-platform public 11 history initiative. 12 He currently serves as an academic 13 advisor to the Filipino Veterans Recognition and 14 Education Program. 15 oversees MIT Open Learning, online educational 16 offerings for learners on campus and around the world, 17 including: 18 well as the Digital Learning Law, Digital Learning in 19 Residential Education, and MIT Video Productions. 20 In his current role at MIT, he OpenCourseWare, MITx, and MicroMasters, as Dr. Capazzola, I now have the honor of 21 administering the oath of office to you. 22 oath, you will assume the position on the CCAC as the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 With this Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 17 1 member specifically qualified in American history. 2 doing so, you will join a very select and prestigious 3 group of individuals invested in U.S. coins and 4 medals. 5 6 By Dr. Capozzola, please raise your right hand and repeat after me. 7 I do solemnly swear that I will support 8 and defend the Constitution of the United States 9 against all enemies, foreign and domestic. 10 DR. CAPOZZOLA: I do solemnly swear 11 that I will support and defend the Constitution of the 12 United States against all enemies, foreign and 13 domestic. 14 15 16 17 18 MS. MCNALLY: That I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same. DR. CAPOZZOLA: That I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same. MS. MCNALLY: That I take this 19 obligation freely without any mental reservation or 20 purpose of evasion. 21 22 DR. CAPOZZOLA: That I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 18 1 2 purpose of evasion. MS. MCNALLY: And that I will well and 3 faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which 4 I am about to enter, so help me God. 5 DR. CAPOZZOLA: And that I will well 6 and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on 7 which I am about to enter, so help me God. 8 MS. MCNALLY: 9 Okay. And that's it. Dr. Capozzola, congratulations and welcome to the 10 Citizen's Coinage Advisory Committee. 11 to welcoming you -- or working with you, and I will 12 invite you to say a few words. 13 you want to or if not. 14 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 15 MS. MCNALLY: 16 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 17 MS. MCNALLY: 18 DR. CAPOZZOLA: We look forward And hopefully -- if Yes, sure. Okay. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. I will be brief. And 19 both for those of you in the room who I have met and 20 those who are online, who I welcome to this, I really 21 appreciate the opportunity to serve this committee and 22 to serve the American public. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 19 1 As you've gathered, I have a passion 2 both for American history and for where scholarly 3 research into American history intersects with the 4 public passion and the public commitment to the 5 preservation of our heritage and the sharing of it 6 with future generations. 7 valuable vehicle for doing that work, and I look 8 forward to being with you in the future. 9 DR. BROWN: I think the CCAC is a Thank you. First, please allow me to 10 also add my congratulations and welcome to you on 11 behalf of the CCAC. 12 Before we move on to review the 13 candidate designs for the first portfolio, I would 14 like to take a -- just a few minutes and provide some 15 updates, since the CCAC has not met since April. 16 First and foremost, I would like to 17 thank members of the public, and the numismatic 18 community, for the suggestions received via the CCAC 19 email address, info@ccac.gov. 20 While only three of the eleven members 21 of the CCAC came through the door of a Treasury 22 secretary appointment as representatives of the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 20 1 general public, all of the CCAC members share with me 2 the importance of lending an ear to the questions, 3 ideas, and suggestions of the public and the Americans 4 who support our beloved hobby. 5 Second, another vehicle for obtaining 6 invaluable ideas and feedback is attendance of the 7 CCAC during forums held by the numismatic community. 8 One such forum was held during the American Numismatic 9 Association meeting that was held at the World's Fair 10 of Money on August 9th in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. 11 I've asked four of the CCAC members, 12 four of the seven who participated, to share, within 13 two minutes, their experience and value of that 14 experience. 15 16 17 18 Let's begin with Donald Scarinci. MR. SCARINCI: question? DR. BROWN: The experience at the CCAC forum In Pittsburgh. 19 MR. SCARINCI: 20 DR. BROWN: 21 MR. SCARINCI: 22 I'm sorry, what was the Oh, in Pittsburgh. In two minutes. Two minutes. can't do anything in two minutes. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Oh, I Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 21 1 But yeah, it was a -- I think we 2 achieved a lot in Pittsburgh, reaching out to 3 collectors. 4 discussions, and they were well attended. 5 discussion about the CCAC on the -- floor following 6 the panels. I was at several of the panels and panel 7 There was And I think special kudos go to the 8 director, who personally stayed signing things. And, 9 you know, I think I just was in awe of, you know, of 10 her attention to collectors. 11 introduction to that universe was a smashing success, 12 beyond any previous director. 13 And I think that her I think she really made a statement, 14 you know, among the collecting community; that she 15 listens, that she's engaged, and, you know, I'm very 16 proud. I'm very proud of my director. 17 DR. BROWN: 18 Let's move on to hear from Dennis. 19 Thank you so much. Dennis Tucker. 20 MR. TUCKER: 21 I think it's very important for the 22 Thank you, Mr. Chair. CCAC and the Mint and the Treasury Department to have www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 22 1 the confidence of the American public, and these types 2 of public engagement hobby meetings are very important 3 to that end. 4 We have to show transparency. We have 5 to communicate with the public and with the media. 6 have to demystify the process of what we do and why we 7 do what we do, and that leads to a sense of inclusion. 8 We want the American public to know that they can have 9 a voice in the process of coin design, coin themes, 10 and what they're able to spend and collect. 11 think that it's very encouraging to see this type of 12 CCAC participation with the public in these forums. 13 14 DR. BROWN: That was heartfelt. And I Thank you so much. Thanks. We really appreciate that. 15 Onto, now, Arthur Bernstein. 16 MR. BERNSTEIN: 17 We This is Arthur Bernstein. 18 I was honored to be part of the panel, 19 which just spoke at the convention. The meeting was 20 well attended. 21 of us spoke about one particular design that we have 22 championed, that we have focused on. We had a large audience, and each one www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 23 1 And I was grateful that the Mint had 2 provided large -- like we have in this room today as 3 well. 4 presentation. 5 experience, other than Kellen's joke about the age of 6 some of the committee members. 7 8 I thought that really helped facilitate the And everything about it was a terrific DR. BROWN: Lastly, but not least, we'll hear from Kellen. 9 MR. KELLEN: No. I want to thank the 10 Mint for facilitating as point of the CCAC panel this 11 year. 12 terms of -- I thought there were really three benefits 13 that were mutual benefits both for the CCAC and the 14 Mint. 15 Really, when I -- kind of, breaking it down in The first one is in regard to people. 16 Before, during, and after the forum I heard from a lot 17 of collectors at the show not only a higher level of 18 engagement with the process, but also interest in 19 applying to be a member in the future. 20 these forums actually increase the strength and 21 diversity of our applicant pool. 22 benefits the CCAC, because fundamentally it's based on And I think And I think that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 24 1 the strength of the people which make it up. 2 think it is really a mutual benefit to have a stronger 3 pool for these forums. 4 So I I think it also benefits our design 5 when we're able to get active feedback or provide an 6 insight to collectors about both broad theme-related 7 things, and specific design-related things, if not in 8 regard to a specific program, but into what collectors 9 are looking for and what they appreciate. 10 And what I also think it does is it 11 really facilitates a different level of connection 12 with collectors. 13 And it shows that the Mint isn't just a distant 14 factory which is outdated and unresponsive, but it is 15 actually the opposite. 16 and modern, and it's a stakeholder in the hobby. 17 not just a provider. 18 A different level of responsiveness. It is engaged, and responsive, It's And so really, you know, not to get on 19 too much of a pedestal here, but when I talk with a 20 lot of the general public today, what I see more and 21 more is that the activities they are most engaged in, 22 the institutions which they most relate to, are those www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 25 1 which provide them a personal connection and have 2 representatives who are personal representatives, 3 rather than just the institution as a whole. 4 And I think the CCAC does that well, 5 where it makes collectors more engaged with the things 6 that the Mint does, because they have a human 7 connection to it. And not only that, but a responsive 8 human connection. So I think the forum was an 9 overwhelming success, and I think we should do it 10 every year. 11 DR. BROWN: Thank you, so much. 12 Now, turning to the public. As you 13 have heard from my colleagues, the CCAC members take 14 seriously our responsibility to serve as an informed, 15 experienced, and impartial resource to the Treasury 16 secretary, and to represent the interests of the 17 American citizens and electors. 18 Tomorrow, you will hear deliberations 19 of the CCAC based upon the wealth of suggestions that 20 we receive from the public and the numismatic 21 community. 22 So we ask that you stay tuned. Moving forward. We will now move to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 26 1 the first portfolio for consideration today. 2 first review one of the five reverse candidate designs 3 for the 2025 American Women's Quarters. 4 We will After lunch, we will then consider the 5 Benjamin Ferencz congressional gold medal, and then 6 turn back to consideration for the other four 7 candidate designs for the 2025 American Women's 8 Quarters. 9 liaisons to attend and speak with us today. 10 This is to accommodate the ability for So we now will consider the reverse 11 candidate designs for the 2025 American Women's 12 Quarter honoring Stacey Park Milbern. 13 to have Ms. April Stafford, chief of the Mint Office 14 of Design Management, will introduce the program and 15 present the reverse candidate designs. We are honored 16 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. 17 So I'll first give some background on 18 this program overall. It is the circulating 19 collectible coin redesign act of 2020 that requires 20 the secretary of the Treasury to issue up to five 21 quarter dollars each year emblematic of prominent 22 American women beginning in 2022 and continuing www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 27 1 through 2025. 2 were selected in a accordance with a process approved 3 by the secretary of the Treasury, and in consultation 4 with the Smithsonian American Women's History 5 Initiative, and the National Women's History Museum, 6 as well as the bipartisan women's caucus. 7 The women featured on these quarters The American Women's Quarters honor 8 five women in each year of the program as authorized 9 by the legislation. The common obverse for this 10 program depicts a portrait of George Washington. 11 design was originally composed and sculpted by Laura 12 Garden Frazier, as a candidate entry for the 1932 13 quarter, which honored the bicentennial of George 14 Washinton's birth. 15 "Liberty," "In God we Trust," and "2025." 16 The The inscriptions will be Reverse designs for this program shall 17 be emblematic of the accomplishments and contributions 18 of one prominent woman of the United States and may 19 include contributions to the United States in a wide 20 spectrum of accomplishments and fields, including but 21 not limited to suffrage, civil rights, abolition, 22 government, humanities, science, space, and arts, and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 28 1 should honor women from ethnically, racially, and 2 geographically diverse backgrounds. 3 Candidate designs have all been 4 reviewed by scholars, curators, and historians with 5 the Smithsonian and the National Women's History 6 Museum, as well as other subject matter experts, 7 family members, and/or estate representatives of the 8 honorees. 9 for what will be the last five quarters in this 10 The candidate designs presented here are series. 11 So again, we're going to the Stacey 12 Park Milbern candidate design portfolio. 13 background on this honoree: 14 born on May 19, 1987, in Seoul, South Korea, and 15 raised in an Army family in Fort Bragg, North 16 Carolina. 17 brilliant woman of color, and very proud of her Korean 18 American heritage. 19 humor, compassion, and wheelchair into the disability 20 justice movement. 21 22 Some Stacey Park Milbern was She was an unapologetic, disabled, She propelled her intellect, Milbern, who had congenital muscular dystrophy, found her passion advocating for disability www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 29 1 rights as a teenager when she attended a youth 2 leadership conference for persons with disabilities in 3 D.C. 4 of the law requiring disability history to be taught 5 in North Carolina High Schools while she was still a 6 high school student herself. 7 She was instrumental in the writing and passage Milbern worked with many state and 8 local organizations, and the governor of North 9 Carolina appointed her to the North Carolina 10 Commission for the Blind as well as the statewide 11 independent living counsel. 12 young disability activists, she created the disability 13 justice movement, moving disability rights activism 14 for the deeper understanding of what is needed for 15 real justice and change beyond laws and legislation. 16 In 2009, with a few other Milbern continued her work for 17 disability justice throughout her 20s as a visionary 18 writer, inspirational leader and organizer, and 19 sought-after keynote speaker. 20 boards allied with other social justice organizations 21 and delivered speeches across the country. 22 she captivated audiences not by the strength of her She served on important www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 On stage, Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 30 1 voice, but through the wisdom of her words and the 2 power of her convictions. 3 Her leadership and community 4 organization skills brought her to the attention of 5 then-President, Barack Obama, who appointed her to the 6 2014 President Committee for People with Intellectual 7 Disabilities as an advisor. 8 9 Milbern, along with friend Andrea Labont, worked on promoting the Netflix documentary 10 Crip Cam, a Disability Revolution. 11 a groundbreaking summer camp for teens with 12 disabilities turned activists for disability rights in 13 the 1970s. 14 the documentary, creating initiatives such as a 15 virtual camp that extended the movie experience by 16 connecting disabled people and sharing their journeys 17 to activism. 18 The film is about They were co-impact producers promoting What was initially supposed to be an 19 eight-week long experience with the hopes of 500 20 attendees, became a 16-week camp that hosted an 21 incredible range of guest speakers and nearly 10,000 22 participants from around the world. Their broadening www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 31 1 of the impact of the film evolved into a new 2 disability revolution. 3 Sadly, Milbern's health declined over 4 time, and she passed away on her 33rd birthday on May 5 19, 2020. 6 is proof that, as Dr. Katherine Ought, curator of the 7 Division of Medicine and Science at the Museum of 8 American History, wrote in her letter of support for 9 Milbern's inclusion into this program, "Ancestors can Although her life was cut way too short, it 10 be any age." 11 ancestral history of bringing forth justice along with 12 those who mentored her and those who will be mentored 13 by knowing about her life. 14 She writes that Milbern's place in the A short life does not necessarily mean 15 a short legacy, especially in disability justice. 16 Milbern was a leader, a visionary, a fierce and 17 compassionate activist for disability justice, ablaze 18 with youth, purpose, and commitment. 19 include a likeness of Stacey Park Milbern, along with 20 the required inscriptions, "United States of America," 21 and "E Pluribus Unum," the common inscription "Stacey 22 Park Milbern," as well as the denomination. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 All designs Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 32 1 As mentioned earlier, we are fortunate 2 to have the Milbern family with us today, and I'd like 3 to ask the family if they would like to say a few 4 words before we show the candidate designs. 5 Jean Milbern, are you there? 6 MS. MILBERN: 7 I'm here. I'm present. 8 9 Yes. MS. STAFFORD: Excellent. Would you or Joel like to say a few words? 10 MR. MILBERN: Yes, good evening. 11 Hello. 12 her mother, Jean, and her sister, Jessica. 13 calling in from Seoul, Korea, today. 14 brother, David, is joining us from Charlotte. 15 I'm Stacey's dad, Joel Milbern. With me is And we're Stacey's I'd just like to start by saying that 16 our family is very thankful for this wonderful 17 recognition in honor of Stacey. 18 everyone that's been involved in this process, 19 especially the design team that's worked so hard to 20 make this happen, and the amazing artists that have 21 all managed to capture Stacey's spirit so beautifully 22 in their individual imaging. We greatly appreciate Everyone has been so www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 33 1 kind to our family in respecting our opinions and 2 allowing us to participate and contribute. 3 We're exceptionally proud of Stacey and 4 humbled by your work to honor her. I know that you've 5 all been provided some information on Stacey that was 6 just read to you. 7 Stacey was born with congenital muscular dystrophy, 8 and this condition led to with other health issues. 9 It caused her arms and legs to be very weak. I'd just like to add a little bit. 10 when she was very young it caused -- become 11 permanently dislocated. 12 Also Since the time Stacey was an infant, 13 every day was filled with a dependency on others for 14 help with her basic needs and constant, chronic pain. 15 It would have been understandable if these conditions 16 had made Stacey angry, bitter, or reclusive. 17 amazingly, they never did. 18 outgoing and cheerful. 19 she met. 20 Stacey. 21 she'd brighten your whole day. 22 with her, and you'd think she was your best friend. But Stacey was almost always She was interested in everyone No one was ever small or insignificant to You could talk with her for five minutes and You'd spend 30 minutes www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 34 1 It seems she was born with a unique 2 ability to deeply love and care for others. It is her 3 great ability to love that I think defined Stacey's 4 life. 5 formidable. 6 believed in, and her bravery was often a catalyst for 7 others to join in the battle. 8 warrior's heart, driven by love like all the greatest 9 leaders. Her love led her to be both fierce and She would fight hard for the causes she She really had a 10 It was Stacey's love for others that 11 motivated her to accomplish so many great things in 12 her life. 13 people in need was simply an extension of her loving 14 heart. 15 help others, and she was a highly intelligent 16 organizer and creative problem solver. 17 To her, seeking justice and fairness for She devoted herself and worked tirelessly to As it was mentioned, Stacey sadly 18 passed away on her 33rd birthday in 2020. Losing her 19 is still a fresh wound for our family and we miss her 20 deeply. 21 story is not a tragedy because she was able to help so 22 many people and inspire so many to action. Her young death was tragic, but her life www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 She Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 35 1 accomplished more in her brief 33 years than I think 2 most of us would accomplish in three lifetimes. 3 And a few days before her passing, 4 Stacey told me on the phone from California that she 5 loves her life and was the happiest she had ever been. 6 Our family's been asked to review the 7 candidate designs and let our preferences be known. 8 Our top design choice is 02 alpha, and we believe that 9 02 alpha best presents Stacey as she would like to be 10 remembered. We think Stacey would like her posture, 11 appearance, and closing -- clothing as it's depicted 12 in the design, and it meets several other of our 13 family's preferences. 14 First, it shows Stacey's middle name, 15 Park, which honors the Korean heritage that she's so 16 proud of. 17 "Disability Justice," the movement that she helped 18 found, is prominently displayed in the design. 19 lastly, we like that her wheelchair is clearly shown, 20 and her left hand is up near her trach, showing she is 21 preparing to speak. 22 a strong, beautiful Stacey. Park is her mother's Korean maiden name. And This is an accurate depiction of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 36 1 Lastly, we feel that the design 04 and 2 06 alpha share several of these characteristics, but 3 design 02 alpha is our family's preferred design. 4 Thank you very much. 5 6 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you so much for joining us. 7 And now, we'll go to the candidate 8 designs. 9 CCAC, I will stop and read the design descriptions of 10 any designs that have been identified by a liaison or 11 another stakeholder as a preference, but certainly, if 12 any committee member would like another design 13 description read as part of the deliberations, please 14 let me know. 15 descriptions which the committee was provided with a 16 couple of weeks ago into the record. 17 As agreed upon with the chairman of the We'll be sure to enter all of the design So we'll start with candidate design 1. 18 Candidate Design 2A. This design depicts Milbern 19 speaking to an audience. 20 trach, while her right hand faces palm up in a gesture 21 meant to evoke a genuine exchange of ideas as the 22 building of allyship. She places one finger on her The additional inscription is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 37 1 "Disability Justice." 2 preferred by the family. 3 recommendation of the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts. 4 As noted, this design is It is also the They did suggest that the Mint consider 5 a slight reworking of the text that is in the upper 6 left quadrant. 7 degree of space, and they felt that if there's a way 8 to somehow include more field, not necessarily by 9 removing any inscriptions but by the formatting, that They noted that it takes up a large 10 that might improve the design. 11 thoughts on that comment. 12 So we appreciate your Moving on to design 3. Design 4, 13 identified by the family as a design that they had 14 interest in but not necessarily their preferred 15 design. 16 activists and a disability justice banner in the 17 background, with the additional inscription 18 "Disability Justice." 19 This design features Milbern with silhouetted Design 5. Design 6A, this design was 20 also identified by the family as a design they were 21 interested in, although not the preferred design. 22 Design 6A features Milbern with the central mechanical www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 38 1 body of her wheelchair replaced with whimsical 2 lettering communicating the joy and happiness she 3 exhibited every day forming the varied inscriptions. 4 Milbern was a fierce and compassionate voice for 5 disability justice who made an outsized impact during 6 her life. 7 as an inscription. This design includes "Disability Justice" 8 9 And moving onto the final candidate design, 6B. And that concludes the candidate designs. 10 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 11 From the committee, are there any 12 technical or legal questions the committee may have 13 regarding this program? 14 Hearing none, let us begin our 15 considerations. I would like to remind each of us 16 that, please, do your best to try to keep your 17 comments within five minutes or less. 18 if there are any members who have questions or 19 comments on the program at this point, please refrain 20 from asking them at this time until you are recognized 21 and at the end of our discussion. 22 the court reporter -- calling in, and those calling Additionally, For the benefit of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 39 1 in, I ask that you please state your name when -- 2 before you begin speaking. 3 So let's begin with Donald Scarinci. 4 MR. SCARINCI: Okay. Donald Scarinci. 5 I have to agree with the family that, you know, and 6 the Commission on Fine Arts, I like 2A. 7 sure I agree with the Commission on Fine Arts as to 8 the re-lettering in light of the size of the planchet. 9 But I have, you know, complete confidence in the chief I'm not so 10 engraver and his team that this will be done, you 11 know -- the lettering will not detract, and that, in 12 fact, the lettering will be made to enhance the 13 design. 14 You know, I think, you know, a comment 15 about all of the designs here. You know, the Mint 16 artist did -- and the Infusion Program did an 17 outstanding job with this portfolio. 18 think this is very consistent with the quality of the 19 designs that we have seen in this program from the 20 very first quarter design. And, you know, I 21 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 22 Let's turn now to Dr. Peter van Alfen. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 40 1 DR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 2 This is Peter van Alfen. 3 I want to start by thanking Stacey's 4 father, Mr. Milbern, for the additional insight into 5 Stacey's life and personality. 6 additional insight, I have to say that the portrait on 7 2A, which is quite cheerful and captivating, is even 8 more so. 9 preference for design 2A, and as with Donald, I also 10 think that the layered incurve inscriptions actually 11 works quite well in this design, and I think it will 12 look really quite nice on a quarter-sized planchet. 13 And with that I am more than happy to support the family's So that's all I have to say. Although, 14 I do have one technical question, which I should have 15 raised a little bit earlier. 16 portion of the design, where the "E Pluribus Unum" 17 runs over the wheelchair, the wheelchair seems to be 18 lightly shaded, and I assume that just means it'll be 19 somehow receded, not fully raised? 20 21 22 MR. COSTELLO: In the lower right-hand Yeah. We would probably incuse that just slightly. Sorry, this is Mike Costello. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 41 1 2 Yes, we would probably have that incused slightly. 3 4 DR. VAN ALFEN: All right. Great. Thank you. 5 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 6 Let's turn now to John Saunders. 7 MR. SAUNDERS: I actually like 6A best 8 from -- first impressions. But I like 2A as well, and 9 again in view of the introduction from Stacey's father 10 and the -- very touching speech, by the way. Very, 11 very nicely done. 12 comments about the designs people have already said 13 kind of incorporate what I believe as well. 14 leave it at that. I think 2A would be just fine. 15 DR. BROWN: 16 Let's turn now to Kellen. 17 MR. HOARD: And So I'll Thank you so much. Thank you. What was clear 18 through the description from Stacey's family and from 19 the Office of Design Management here is that she was 20 really just a very powerful person and someone who was 21 consistently, you know, overcoming challenges and who 22 was consistently at the forefront of what she did, and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 42 1 so that kind of informed my approach toward the -- 2 because I didn't want any kind of design where she 3 would be overpowered in the design. 4 be kind of the center point of it, because she was the 5 one who was driving this change forward. 6 Where she would And so I was really drawn to 6A in 7 the -- in terms of a compelling design, a creative 8 design, which uses her wheelchair not only as a symbol 9 of what -- who she was, but also the work that she did 10 and how her wheelchair in many ways drove forward the 11 work that she did, and wasn't actually a hindrance but 12 rather a tool for achieving change. 13 I also did like 2A, especially because 14 the family liked it. I do support it for that reason 15 as well. 16 actually overpower her in some ways and my attention 17 is drawn to the words rather than to her. 18 both of those, and I'm looking forward to seeing what 19 we do with that. I just worry that the words in some ways But I like 20 DR. BROWN: 21 We're going to turn now to Dr. Harcourt 22 Thank you so much. Fuller. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 43 1 2 DR. FULLER: Thank you so much, Dr. Brown. 3 I really appreciate the comments from 4 the family members, and I'm very happy to support 2A, 5 and I also liked 6A as well, but I will be happy to 6 support the family's recommendations for 2A. 7 you very much. Thank 8 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 9 Let's turn now to Dennis Tucker. 10 MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 11 This is Dennis Tucker, and thank you to 12 mister and misses Milbern for sharing your thoughts. 13 That's very helpful in guiding our deliberations and 14 consideration as we talk about these designs. 15 I had assumed from your choice of 2A 16 that the family felt that this portrait captured 17 Stacey's essence, but it's good to hear from you, you 18 said you feel like this is how she would like to be 19 remembered. 20 endorsement for that -- for this particular design. So I feel like that's a strong 21 It's a confident and engaging pose, and 22 the inscription "Disability Justice" gives context for www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 44 1 people who might be learning about her for the first 2 time, so I'm happy to give my support to this design 3 as well. Thank you. 4 5 Thank you both, and thank you to the entire family. 6 7 DR. BROWN: Bernstein. 8 9 Let's turn now to Art MR. BERNSTEIN: Bernstein. Hi. This is Arthur I also support design 2A for all the 10 reasons stated. I did want to call attention to 11 design 1, which I think might be the first time we've 12 seen a mobile phone in a design. 13 by that. 14 of social media, and I thought this might have been a 15 chance to get a cell phone on a coin. And I was intrigued And there's a direct connection to her use 16 But I support the family's decision. 17 And I also wanted to say, I liked design 4 with the 18 silhouetted activists portrayed. 19 that it was pointing to her role with other people. 20 But as I said, I'm all for 2A. I liked the fact 21 DR. BROWN: Outstanding. 22 Let's turn now to Darla Jackson www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 45 1 2 MS. JACKSON: Hello. This is Darla Jackson. 3 First, I want to point out 6A. I think 4 that this is a really nice design and wanted to call 5 it out. 6 elements that were talked about. 7 I think it is a nice balance of all of the However, I do agree with the family, 8 especially after the beautiful talk about Stacey Park 9 Milbern and how friendly and warm she is. I think 10 that 2A does a really wonderful job of balancing that 11 feeling, while still giving her such a place of, you 12 know, importance here. 13 And I also feel that the text in this 14 design speaks visually to the waves that she created 15 in her community. 16 change the size of the text. 17 with the portrait really nicely, and then, again, is a 18 visual representation of the impact that she's made 19 throughout the world. 20 of 2A. So I would not actually advise to I think that it balances So I support the recommendation 21 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 22 Let's turn now to Mr. Moran. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 46 1 MR. MORAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 2 I want to remind the committee that we 3 are judging a coin that is for general circulation and 4 non-medal. 5 conveyed here that must be readily discerned by the 6 general public. And therefore, there's a message to be 7 When I look at 2A, I see 50 percent of 8 the palette tied up with the inscriptions, and I don't 9 think there's any way to shrink them to give more 10 negative space and more -- and therefore add more 11 weight to the image without making them virtually 12 unreadable on a quarter. 13 we're designing for a quarter. 14 And we have to remember So that one -- I've listened to 15 everybody and there's a stampede for it and I want to 16 caution you about that. 17 caution myself about it. 18 on a quarter. 19 show, and they will just complicate the design. 20 At least, I am going to I liked 4, but again, it's Those silhouettes back there won't So let's go to 6A and 6B. They're both 21 equally good, but I think that I like 6A because of 22 its simplicity, and it highlights the figure, and it www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 47 1 does a unique way of showing "Disability Justice" as 2 part of the wheelchair. 3 and it -- a picture's worth a thousand words, and it 4 really takes the place of the inscriptions that they 5 are placed onto it. 6 It's right there in your face I would also suggest that, regardless 7 of which one we pick, we need to look at the motto "E 8 Pluribus Unum," "One from Many." 9 particular, poignant, meaning here. I think it has a And that Stacey 10 was one of many, by she rose to be part of many and 11 overcame her disabilities. 12 a prominent position. 13 move it to where "E Pluribus Unum" is within her 14 eyesight on the coin. 15 be 6A. I think that that deserves And in that regard, I would My first preference is going to 16 Thank you, Dr. Brown. 17 DR. BROWN: 18 Turn now to Chris. 19 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 20 Chris Capozzola here. 21 I think this coin will be incredibly 22 Thank you so much. All right. Thank you. valuable to the public for conversations about www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 48 1 disability, and I really value the 21st Century 2 representation of an individual, which I think is very 3 exciting. 4 As I was looking at these, I was -- I 5 thought it very important to include the features of 6 technology that are in some of these designs. 7 Stacey as a speaker. 8 words "Disability Justice." 9 than "Disability Justice Leader" or "Activist." Also, And also, particularly, the Those two words, rather 10 a specific formulation that is distinct from 19th 11 Century or other ways in which people with 12 disabilities advocated for themselves. 13 It's Like Mr. Moran, I also read this very 14 specifically as a circulating coin with the challenges 15 and opportunities that come with that, and a need to 16 convey to people who -- the entire general public 17 Milbern's personality or history and her contributions 18 both through -- in as few words and as many images as 19 possible. 20 This leads me to my preference of 2A, 21 which many others have said. I do think, you know, as 22 sort of shared, the -- these comments, I do worry that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 49 1 the image itself is not, you know, doesn't take up 2 enough of the room. 3 I don't know, and I leave it to others 4 who are more technically sophisticated about whether 5 those letters could be made smaller in order to make 6 Milbern herself larger. 7 6A, and again, as many others have said, I appreciate, 8 you know, sort of, the way that this all is included, 9 and particularly the words "Disability Justice" in the That said, I also appreciate 10 wheelchair itself. And thus makes, for me, makes 6A 11 more valuable than 6B, which I think maybe tries to do 12 too much for a circulating coin. 13 that. And I'll leave it at Thank you. 14 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 15 For me -- this is Lawrence Brown, and 16 for me, this has been -- as has been the case with 17 this program. 18 fantastic work by the U.S. Mint, these designs are 19 incredible. 20 commend the Mint and the artists for the great work 21 they've provided. 22 I've continued to be marveled at the So next -- to that point, I want to I also want to make sure that I look at www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 50 1 coins from a standpoint of the story they tell, and 2 how they make me feel. 3 to do a lot of homework, then it loses some of its 4 essence for me. 5 what she's done, the word "Disability Justice" needs 6 to be, in fact, prominent. 7 going to lose this for historians to understand the 8 significance. 9 If a coin actually requires me And I think from the standpoint of Because if not, then we're As much as they will see someone in a 10 chair. 11 obscured in 2A, by virtue of that -- the design. 12 also love 6A, because I think that it does have a 13 modern representation. 14 justice -- the font, the way it's provided. 15 really challenged between 2A and 6A in terms of the 16 choices of those myself. 17 -- 18 19 20 I do agree that the wheelchair is somewhat I You might say that disability So I am So at this point, I think we Are there any additional comments or motions from the members at this time? Hearing none, Mr. Costello, do you have 21 anything that you would like to share with the 22 committee on this program? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 51 1 MR. COSTELLO: The only comment I have 2 as far as 2A, I'm sure we can make modest adjustments 3 to the scale of those letters to make it work a little 4 bit better, but other than that I'm not sure what else 5 we can do. 6 take a look. Chief Engraver Joe and the team, they'll That's all the comment I have. 7 DR. BROWN: 8 Yes. 9 MR. HOARD: I too -- I'm sorry. I had a quick 10 question, if I could. 11 important that her head was kind of outreached into a 12 -- as if she was, you know, addressing a crowd. 13 6A, is that possible for that hand to be adjusted in a 14 more outreaching way? 15 I know for the family it's For I don't know if that's viable. MS. STAFFORD: I -- I can -- sorry. I 16 was going to say, unless the Milbern family would like 17 to weigh in, I can tell you that, from the notes that 18 the design manager left, that 6A was also identified 19 as a design that accurately captures her body 20 positioning and her range of motion as well as her 21 inherent beauty. 22 I don't know, Joel, if you wanted to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 52 1 comment on that? 2 6A, or is it something that you feel would be enhanced 3 by an outreached hand? 4 Is there anything problematic with MR. MILBERN: No. Her current posture, 5 and she has her hand resting over the control over the 6 wheelchair in the current design. 7 would have no objection to changing her hand position 8 to be more similar to the -- 9 MS. WARREN: 10 But the family This is Jennifer. I just want to remind everyone just to 11 state your name, as the people on the phone don't know 12 who's talking. 13 court reporter is -- 14 15 And also to speak up, because the MR. MILBERN: Certainly. sorry. 16 That was Joel Milbern. 17 MS. WARREN: 18 And I'm Oh, yeah. Yeah, sorry. was talking to the people in the room. 19 And speak up, because people on the 20 phone may not be able to hear you as well, just 21 because we still don't have built-in microphones in 22 this room. Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 53 1 DR. BROWN: This is Lawrence Brown. 2 Donald. 3 MR. SCARINCI: Donald Scarinci. 4 Mr. Chairman, I just want to, for the record and to 5 Mike, just communicate -- I think Darla made a very 6 important design comment. 7 like the lettering and the shape is almost like a 8 sonic wave. 9 the observation that was made. 10 And, you know, it is almost It's almost like, you know, it, you know, I would be very careful, artistically, 11 you know, to adjust that design; because I would 12 suspect that was the artist's intention. 13 all. So that's Thank you. 14 DR. BROWN: Does the Milbern family 15 have any other comments or suggestions that they would 16 like to make based upon what they've heard? 17 This is Lawrence Brown again. 18 MR. MILBERN: 19 This is Joel Milbern again. 20 No further comments, other than I 21 greatly appreciate your thoughtful deliberation and 22 comments. So thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 54 1 MS. MILBERN: 2 DR. BROWN: Yes. Hearing no further comments 3 or suggestions, the committee will now score the 4 reverse candidate designs for the 2025 Stacey Park 5 Milbern quarter. 6 Each of you should have received -- 7 should have in front of you, that is, your 8 scoresheets. 9 Mr. Greg Weinman, who will tally those scores. 10 11 When you're done, please give them to Dr. Fuller, I'm sure you will send yours to Mr. Weinman electronically. 12 We will take a brief five minutes -- 13 DR. FULLER: 14 15 16 Yes, I will, Dr. Brown. Thank you. DR. BROWN: We will take a five-minute break for the scoring and the tallying. 17 MS. WARREN: 18 THE REPORTER: 19 It is muted. Dr. Brown, should I take us off the record? 20 DR. BROWN: Yes. 21 (Off the record.) 22 MS. WARREN: I apologize. We're back. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 55 1 DR. BROWN: Thank you, so much. 2 Ladies and gentleman, we are back. 3 I recognize Greg Weinman, counsel to 4 the CCAC, to present the results from the scoring 5 sheets. 6 MR. WEINMAN: Thank you for scoring. 7 This is with a full panel present today. We have a 8 possible 33 points. 9 design number 1 received seven; design number 2A So out of a possible 33 points, 10 received 28, and that is the high-scoring design, 2A; 11 design 3 received three points; design 4 received six 12 points; design 5 received five points; design 6A, 13 close behind at 23 points; and design 6B had seven 14 points. 15 with 28 points. So once again, the high-scoring design was 2A 16 DR. BROWN: 17 I ask the committee, are there any 18 19 20 Thank you so much. motions based on what you have heard? I recognize this is a large amount -- I recognize Dennis Tucker. 21 MR. TUCKER: This is Dennis Tucker. 22 Dr. Brown, I move that we recommend to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 56 1 the secretary of the Treasury design 2A, which was the 2 family's preference as well. 3 DR. BROWN: 4 MR. BERNSTEIN: 5 DR. BROWN: 6 Art Bernstein seconds. Is there any further conversation or debate with respect to this motion? 7 8 Is there a second? Hearing none, all those in favor, please signify by saying, "aye." 9 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: Aye. 10 DR. BROWN: Those opposed, "nay." 11 The motion carries. 12 Ladies and gentleman, I'd like you to 13 also consider to provide a response based on what 14 you've heard from the CFA's recommendation with 15 respect to the "Disability Justice," changing the 16 font, modifying it. 17 the secretary to hear your view with respect to that 18 suggestion from the CFA. 19 I think it would be useful for MR. MORAN: Are you looking for 21 DR. BROWN: Yes, please. 22 MR. MORAN: Dr. Brown, this is Michael 20 volunteers? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 57 1 Moran. I think you need to leave it like it is. 2 DR. BROWN: 3 DR. VAN ALFEN: 4 Is there a second? Peter van Alfen, second. 5 DR. BROWN: 6 No further debate or discussion? 7 Hearing none, all those in favor, 8 signify by saying "aye." 9 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 10 11 Okay. DR. BROWN: Aye. Opposed, "nay." Opposed, "nay." 12 The motion carries. 13 Are there any further discussions with 14 15 respect to this matter? Since all discussion has concluded, 16 then I would call for a recess for lunch until 12:50, 17 when we will review and discuss the candidate designs 18 for the 2025 American Woman's quarters. 19 to recess, I'd like to share with you that I'm passing 20 around, for people to see in the room, some of the 21 American Women's quarter products from the U.S. Mint. 22 I think it's useful for people here to see, in fact, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Before we go Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 58 1 the fantastic work from the U.S. Mint so that we can 2 really appreciate the wealth of this program. 3 MS. WARREN: Dr. Brown? 4 Sorry. 5 Actually, we'll come back at 12:40. This is Jennifer Warren. 6 Just a correction, because we had to change the agenda 7 slightly. 8 the Benjamin Ferencz congressional gold medal. 9 10 So 12:40 we'll be returning to deal with DR. BROWN: So for the record, we'll be returning at 12:40. 11 I would also like to take a moment to 12 thank our liaisons, particularly the Milbern family, 13 and want to pause here to find out if they have any 14 questions or comments based on what they have heard. 15 MR. MILBERN: 16 Joel Milbern, again. 17 Just our gratitude as a family for this 18 Thank you all, so much. process. 19 MS. MILBERN: Yes. 20 MR. MILBERN: And all you've given us. 21 22 Thank you so much. MS. MILBERN: We are so thrilled. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 59 1 Thank you so much for everything that you did. 2 DR. BROWN: So thank you for attending 3 and providing what you have done to enrich this 4 discussion. 5 6 I want to thank the public for participating via phone during this discussion. 7 8 So officially, we stand in recess until we return. 9 10 MS. WARREN: And just a reminder, we did hear from people on the call. 11 Donald, they could not hear you very 12 well, and Mike. So if you guys could just make sure 13 you -- even though there's mics here, that's for the 14 court reporter. 15 just facing the TV and just project a little would 16 help. It's not necessarily for the TV. So Thank you. 17 (Off the record.) 18 MS. WARREN: Good afternoon. I'm going 19 to hand this over to Dr. Brown for the afternoon for 20 the CCAC. 21 22 DR. BROWN: Good afternoon. Lawrence Brown, and we are back. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I am Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 60 1 2 And let's take a quick roll call of the CCAC members to determine that everyone is present. 3 Darla Jackson. 4 Please answer by saying "present," 5 please. 6 MS. JACKSON: 7 DR. BROWN: 8 9 10 Present. Dr. Harcourt Fuller. Dr. Fuller. MS. WARREN: He's still on, but his mic is muted, so I don't know if he's stepped away. 11 DR. BROWN: Okay. I'll go forward. 12 Art Bernstein. 13 MR. BERNSTEIN: 14 DR. BROWN: 15 MR. SCARINCI: 16 DR. BROWN: Mike Moran. 17 MR. MORAN: Present. 18 DR. BROWN: Dr. Christopher Capozzola. 19 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 20 DR. BROWN: 21 DR. VAN ALFEN: 22 DR. BROWN: Present. Donald Scarinci. Present. Present. Dr. Peter van Alfen. Present. Kellen Howard -- Hoard. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 61 1 MR. HOARD: Present. 2 DR. BROWN: Dennis Tucker. 3 MR. TUCKER: 4 DR. BROWN: 5 MR. SAUNDERS: 6 DR. BROWN: 7 10 John Saunders. Present. And again, I am Lawrence Brown. 8 9 Present. Seeing that everyone is here, we will now review the candidate designs for the Benjamin Ferencz Congressional Gold Medal. 11 Once again, we turn to April Stafford, 12 who's the chief of the Mint's Office of Design 13 Management, who will introduce the program and present 14 the obverse and reverse candidate designs for the 15 congressional gold medal. 16 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you, so much. 17 First, a little background on this 18 program. The Benjamin Berell Ferencz Congressional 19 Gold Medal Act awards Benjamin Ferencz a congressional 20 gold medal in recognition of his service to the United 21 States and international community during the post- 22 World War II Nuremberg Trials, and his lifelong www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 62 1 advocacy for international criminal justice and rule 2 of law. 3 Benjamin Ferencz was born on March 11, 4 1920, in present day Romania, and was just 10 months 5 old when his family emigrated to the United States, 6 settling in New York City. 7 a scholarship to Harvard Law School, and after 8 graduating with honors, enlisted in the Army in 1943. 9 He then joined an anti-aircraft artillery battalion, A studious Ferencz earned 10 preparing for the invasion of France, and under 11 General Patton, fought in many of the major campaigns 12 throughout Europe. 13 As the atrocities of the Nazi regime 14 were uncovered, Ferencz was transferred to the newly 15 created War Crimes Branch of the Army. 16 was to gather evidence that could be used in a court 17 of law to prosecute those responsible for the heinous 18 crimes. 19 Third Reich, visiting concentration camps as they were 20 liberated. 21 22 Their mission He documented the horrors perpetuated by the At the end of 1945, Ferencz, who had been awarded five battle stars during his time in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 63 1 service, was honorably discharged from the Army with 2 the rank of Sergeant of Infantry. 3 In 1946, Ferencz was recruited to join 4 the legal team working on the Nuremberg tribunals, a 5 novel independent court established to try top-ranking 6 Nazi officials for crimes perpetuated during the 7 course of the war, including crimes committed during 8 the Holocaust. 9 By 1948, at age 27, he was appointed 10 chief prosecutor in the Einsatzgruppen Trial, in what 11 the Associated Press called "the biggest murder trial 12 in history." 13 of war crimes, crimes against humanity, and membership 14 in a criminal organization complicit in systematic 15 genocide. 16 fought for compensation and other forms of restitution 17 for victims and survivors of the Holocaust. 18 The Court found 20 Nazi officials guilty At the end of the Nuremberg Trials, Ferencz Ferencz then entered private law 19 practice, but the impact of his war -- of his work 20 after World War II gradually drew him back to the 21 cause that would become his life's work. 22 1970s until his death in 2023, Ferencz worked www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 From the Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 64 1 tirelessly to promote the development of international 2 mechanisms to outlaw and punish aggressive war and the 3 crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity, and war 4 crimes. 5 of the International Criminal Court, and to the 6 recognition of aggression as an international crime. 7 His efforts contributed to the establishment Ferencz was a tireless advocate for 8 international criminal justice and the conviction that 9 the rule of law offers the world a sustainable path to 10 stem conflict and reach peaceful conclusions to 11 geopolitical disputes. 12 establish a legal precedent that would encourage a 13 more humane and secure world in the future. 14 the age of 101, Ferencz was still actively giving 15 speeches worldwide about lessons learned during his 16 extraordinary career. 17 His unwavering goal was to Even at He was compelled by the imperative to 18 replace the rule of force with the rule -- with the 19 force of law, promoting judicial mechanisms that can 20 resolve conflict. 21 give up because the fight for peace and justice is 22 worth the long struggle ahead. He often told young people to never www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 65 1 Ferencz died on April 7, 2023, at the 2 age of 103, the last surviving prosecutor at the 3 Nuremberg Trials. 4 So we have with us today, Don Ferencz, 5 to speak to this portfolio, but I want to check his 6 connection. 7 MS. WARREN: 8 MS. STAFFORD: 9 MS. WARREN: 10 MS. STAFFORD: He's coming on. One Okay. I'll go on to read the -- 13 14 Don, are you with us? second. 11 12 He's -- hold on. MS. WARREN: Nope. He's -- he should be on now. 15 MS. STAFFORD: Okay. I'll go on to 16 read the common inscriptions across the obverse and 17 reverse, and then I'll throw to Donald Ferencz to say 18 a few words, if that's okay. 19 Common inscriptions you'll see across 20 the obverse designs will include "Benjamin B. 21 Ferencz," "Law not War," and "A Plea of Humanity to 22 Law." Common inscriptions across the reverse designs www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 66 1 you'll see today include "Act of Congress 2023," "Law 2 not War," and "International Criminal Justice." 3 Again, we're fortunate to have his son, Don Ferencz, 4 with us. 5 Don, would you like to say a few words? 6 MR. FERENCZ: I'm delighted to say a 7 few words. I'll keep -- most importantly, I'd like to 8 express on behalf of myself and, of course, our entire 9 family our very, very deep appreciation not only for 10 the honor of the award of the congressional medal, but 11 also for the work of all who have been involved in the 12 process, both on the legislative side and also on the 13 aesthetic and developmental side. 14 I'm sorry that I have not been 15 successful this afternoon in trying to get -- other 16 than just by audio. 17 call just a few moments ago and had to dial, using 18 Skype on a computer in Spain, to speak with you this 19 afternoon. 20 I was actually dumped off this So I don't want to intrude on your work. I was very, very pleased to be able to 21 listen in on the call a few days ago to review the 22 submissions, and as I understand it, were uniform in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 67 1 their appraisal of the obverse and the reverse of the 2 selection that I thought was the most appropriate -- 3 virtual connectivity interruption -- 4 5 MS. STAFFORD: Don, are you still with us? 6 7 Don, can you hear us? Okay. lost him. I'm afraid it seems like we've Perhaps he can hear us. 8 I believe he might have been going on 9 to say that he listened into the CFA meeting and was 10 pleased with their recommendations. 11 will share -- 12 MR. FERENCZ: 13 MS. STAFFORD: 14 ahead. Of course, we I -- yes. There you go. Okay. Go We can hear you now. 15 MR. FERENCZ: I'm not sure, but I may 16 actually be connecting through the Microsoft app on my 17 iPhone. 18 MS. WARREN: 19 sir. 20 that. 21 22 Are you seeing an indication -Yes. I just accepted you, You just have to mute -- unmute yourself on There you go, sir. MR. FERENCZ: Okay. Yeah. okay? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Are we Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 68 1 MS. WARREN: 2 MR. FERENCZ: Perfect. It -- bear with me just 3 one more moment, okay? 4 a headset so I can hear you better. 5 Okay. 6 MS. STAFFORD: 7 MS. WARREN: 8 MR. FERENCZ: 9 I want to try to plug in a -- Can you hear me now? Yes. Perfect. It's funny. I think you just said yes, but I'm having trouble hearing you. 10 MS. STAFFORD: 11 MR. FERENCZ: Yes. Okay. We can hear you. Well, anyway, I 12 was just thanking everyone involved for this very deep 13 honor, and the efforts that people have made both on 14 the legislative side and also on the developmental 15 side with respect to the development of the medal 16 itself. 17 been involved and engaged, and also all of the people 18 in the administration. 19 And, of course, all of the artists who have I was particularly gratified to listen 20 in on some -- virtual connectivity interruption -- 21 undertook the other day and was particularly pleased 22 that they unanimously accepted to reverse and the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 69 1 obverse that was the family's choice. And I know that 2 you'll perhaps have further deliberations today on 3 that, but they were, I know, very critical in the way 4 that they viewed some of the earlier cases that I also 5 listened to. 6 obverse and the reverse that were suggested as the 7 family's choice, they virtually made no changes 8 whatsoever, which I found quite the positive thing. 9 So I was very pleased with that. And when it came to the medal and the 10 I don't want to get in the way of your 11 deliberation, so I'll let you get on with it and I'll 12 simply say my deep, deep thanks on behalf of myself 13 and my family -- once again, thank you. 14 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you, so much. 15 And certainly, if any of our CCAC 16 members have questions, we'll throw to you. 17 you for being with us. 18 All right. So thank So we'll go through the 19 candidate designs, starting with the obverse. As I 20 indicated earlier, I will simply read the descriptions 21 associated with preferred designs. 22 would like other designs read, please let me know. If any member www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 70 1 So we'll start with obverse 1, 1A, 1B. 2 This design depicts Benjamin Ferencz at a podium 3 during the Nuremberg trials. 4 additional inscription "1922 to 2023." 5 family's preferred design, as well as the 6 recommendation of the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts. 7 It also features the This is the Our liaison indicated that this design 8 has the best likeness to his father, and very much 9 appreciated the fact that he's looking forward in a 10 manner that is engaging and captures the energy of the 11 moment, him at work at the podium. 12 13 14 Obverse 2, 3, 4, 5, 5A, 5B, 6, 7, 7A, 8, 9, 10, 11, 11A, 12, 12A, 13, 13A, and 13B. Moving onto the reverse candidate 15 designs, we have reverse 1, 2, 2A, 3, 3A, 3B, 4, 4A. 16 This design prominently features "Law not War," above 17 the scales of justice, surrounded by olive branches. 18 Additionally, it features five stars to represent 19 Ferencz's military service. 20 preferred design, as well as the recommendation of the 21 U.S. Commission of Fine Arts, though they did make a 22 couple of suggestions. This is our liaison's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 71 1 They suggested that the olive branches 2 should be given more form, some more shape. 3 would appreciate your input on that. 4 encouraged the removal of the punctuation marks, the 5 periods after "Law and War." 6 Design 5, 6, 7, 8, 8A. And so we And they also This design 7 features the scales of justice, and olive branches and 8 symbols of Ferencz and his steadfast advocacy for 9 justice and peace. Additionally, this design features 10 five stars to represent his military service. 11 our liaison's second preferred design. 12 13 This is Reverse 9, and finally, reverse 10. And that concludes the candidate designs. 14 DR. BROWN: This is Lawrence Brown. 15 Thank you, so much, April. 16 Now, to the committee to ask, are there 17 any technical or legal questions that the committee 18 would like to pose? 19 Art? 20 DR. VAN ALFEN: 21 22 I'm sorry. Speak, speak. Peter. This is Peter van Alfen. I do have a couple questions about -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 72 1 technical questions. For the preferred obverse 2A. 2 Or no, no, sorry, preferred obverse 1B. 3 pinstripes in the suit, how would that be represented 4 on the medal? The This is a question for Mike Costello. 5 MR. COSTELLO: On the medal -- 6 I'm sorry. 7 The actual medal itself, we could It's Mike Costello. 8 strike that when they sculpt. I could get in there -- 9 we have a -- our smallest tools is 4000 -- I'm quite 10 sure we could get in there and just scribe that. 11 it would show up on -- 12 DR. VAN ALFEN: And another question 13 for the reverse. 14 there. 15 that what is represented there? For the reverse 4A, the background I presume that's a textured background? 16 MR. COSTELLO: 17 Yes, that's a textured background. 18 DR. VAN ALFEN: 19 MR. COSTELLO: 20 MR. BERNSTEIN: 21 22 And Is This is Mike Costello. Okay. Thank you. Yep. This is Arthur Bernstein. I had a question about -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 73 1 April? 2 MS. STAFFORD: 3 MR. BERNSTEIN: I'm looking, yes. Okay. My question was 4 about the lapel pin, which seems to be fairly 5 prominent in several of the obverse designs. 6 know if there was some significance to that, if it's 7 symbolic of something, or it's just something -- wear 8 in his suit -- 9 MS. STAFFORD: No. 10 information about that lapel pin. 11 Ferencz. 12 I didn't We don't have any I'll ask Don I know when you worked closely with 13 Boneza Hanchock on development of this portfolio, we 14 worked with you to analyze the details of the designs 15 to ensure accuracy and appropriateness. 16 any details about the lapel pin as it appears in 17 obverse 1B, or is that something that's taken from the 18 photographs that were used as a reference? 19 MS. WARREN: 20 you are muted. 21 button. 22 Do you have Sir, if you're speaking, So you would have to hit the unmute MR. FERENCZ: Yeah. Yeah. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I'm sorry. Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 74 1 I'm at a little bit of a disadvantage, because I'm 2 having troubles hearing you. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 I hear you're asking me a question. Could you repeat the question, please? MS. STAFFORD: Sure. Absolutely. Can you hear me now? MR. FERENCZ: I can hear you, yes. But I don't have all of the visuals in front of me. MS. STAFFORD: No problem. So on your preferred obverse, obverse 1B -- 11 MR. FERENCZ: 12 MS. STAFFORD: Yeah. -- your father is 13 depicted at the podium and microphone, and on his left 14 lapel there is a small pin. 15 is, are you aware -- have you validated that that 16 detail is accurate? 17 simply a depiction of photographic references from the 18 time that we used of your father? 19 So our question to you Is it a particular pin, or is it MR. FERENCZ: Well, as to whether or 20 not it's taken from a photograph, a real, live, 21 photograph, that I'm not sure, unless I were to go 22 through my own archives of photographs. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 But the Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 75 1 answer is, yes. 2 referred to, and some of you may have heard this 3 expression, as a "ruptured duck." 4 5 My father used to wear a pin which he Is that familiar to anybody in this room? 6 MR. BERNSTEIN: 7 MR. FERENCZ: No. Apparently, it was one of 8 the military's sort of lapel pins that they gave out, 9 and it was an American eagle, but apparently the 10 service members, rather, how can I say, 11 lightheartedly, had a nickname for it because the 12 likeness, they thought, apparently, was not as keen or 13 as likened unto an eagle as they might have preferred. 14 So in terms of keeping that in, I would 15 say actually it should very much be in. 16 hear my dad talk about this as a kid. 17 answer. 18 And I used to So yes is the It's realistic. MS. STAFFORD: Thank you so much. And 19 we've located that on an internet search, and we're 20 going to show the CCAC members. 21 MR. FERENCZ: 22 MR. BERNSTEIN: Okay. Dr. Brown, thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 76 1 Thank you, April. You phrased my 2 question better than I did. 3 and thrilled that the lapel pin is on. 4 MR. FERENCZ: And now I'm fascinated Well, I'll add something 5 else to the story just for fun. My dad lost that pin 6 many, many, many years ago. 7 of being the person who lost that pin. 8 like you, I actually went on eBay and bought him a 9 replacement ruptured duck, this little pin. And he used to accuse me So I actually, And in 10 fact, I'm wearing it right now on my lapel as I speak 11 to you. 12 DR. BROWN: Another question? 13 MR. HOARD: I had a quick question for 14 Don as well, if I could. 15 This is Kellen Hoard. 16 I was just wondering, Don said that the 17 likeness in this 1 series was the most true to form, 18 which I appreciate, because it looked like to me 19 pretty much every design had kind of a different 20 likeness of him. 21 in terms of 1B, whether -- which elements 22 differentiate it for the family than 1A or 1. So that was helpful. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I'm wondering, Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 77 1 Did they prefer the name over the top 2 or the date at the bottom? 3 the pictures are the same, which elements are 4 distinguishing that make that one preferred? 5 could hear that. 6 MR. FERENCZ: Which elements -- because If I My feeling -- I went 7 online myself to review, for example, some of the 8 earliest -- to see what did they look like. 9 the earlier ones look like, what can I say, sort of Some of 10 formal -- sort of standard. What I like about seeing 11 the name across the top as sort of -- uniformly across 12 the top as opposed to breaking it up, in my mind it 13 creates a frame, if you will, of the features, and I 14 like -- particularly like the balance of that. 15 MR. HOARD: Okay. Thank you. 16 DR. BROWN: Thank you, so much. 17 And this is Lawrence Brown. 18 And sir, I just want to share with you 19 that I'm a veteran myself, and actually for a period 20 of time I was stationed with the 101st Airborne. 21 sometimes, we got some less than complimentary names 22 of our insignias. So it was not uncommon to hear www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 78 1 that, for example, the 101st Airborne that we liked to 2 view it as in fact a strong eagle, but many people 3 would call it a "puking buzzard" or -- 4 But I do have a question for, maybe, 5 the Mint staff or you, sir; that I'm curious if you 6 might be able to share with us some background of the 7 five battle stars. 8 a bronze star myself, as a battle star. 9 curious, is that -- if we have any information about I'm fortunate to be a recipient of So I was 10 the campaigns under which he won them. Because this 11 is so important, particularly for veterans, to 12 understand that someone is being commemorated in this 13 way. 14 invaluable. And having that complete picture would be 15 MR. FERENCZ: Yes. I can tell you what 16 I have heard. I have not independently verified it, 17 but I have heard my father, who spoke many, many times 18 publicly, and he would talk about his experience 19 during the war. 20 stars for not being killed or wounded in the five 21 major campaigns in Europe in which he fought, starting 22 with the D-Day invasion. And he said that he got five battle www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 79 1 He was not in the first wave of troops 2 who came, but he was there at the Battle of the Bulge, 3 et cetera, et cetera. And he was in, you know, part 4 of Patton's Infantry. And he took great pride in 5 that. 6 a very proud American because he had lived the 7 American dream, coming over to the United States, and 8 as an immigrant growing up in Hell's Kitchen in New 9 York in abject poverty. He, you know, he would like to say that he was 10 on a full scholarship. 11 after another. Going to Harvard Law School And his life was one miracle 12 And this was part of his wanting to 13 include his service in the military as part of the 14 story that he told, even as he was telling the story 15 "law not war," trying to move the world forward. 16 Dwight Eisenhower, he loved -- used to like to quote 17 Eisenhower, saying that, "If civilization is to 18 survive, it must choose the rule of law." 19 one of his favorite quotes as well. 20 21 22 DR. BROWN: As And this is Thank you, so much. Really appreciate that. Are there any other technical or legal www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 80 1 questions from the committee? 2 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 3 This is Chris Capozzola. 4 One small question for April. 5 have missed it. 6 say about the obverse? 7 I have one. I might What did the Commission of Fine Arts MS. STAFFORD: They agreed with our 8 liaison's preferred design, which is obverse 1B. 9 they had no suggestions for that. 10 They did on the reverse though. 11 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 12 MS. STAFFORD: 13 form to the olive branches and removing the 14 punctuation from the inscription "Law not War." Okay. Thank you. That was giving more 15 DR. BROWN: 16 MR. SAUNDERS: 17 I have a question on the reverse. John. John Saunders. 18 one with the dove flying over the maps. 19 something special about the choice of the maps and 20 the -- as depicted there? 21 22 And MS. STAFFORD: The Was there So I can tell you -- are you talking about the series 3, 3A and 3B? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 81 1 MR. SAUNDERS: Yes. 3 MS. STAFFORD: So I -- 4 MR. SAUNDERS: It's American and 2 5 I mean, it's just -- Europe. What's the connection or what's -- 6 MS. STAFFORD: So designs 3 and 3A 7 feature a globe showing the areas of Europe where 8 Ferencz performed his investigations and the 9 subsequent trials, as well as Florida where he made 10 his home. 11 below the Hague, the location of the International 12 Criminal Court. 13 14 15 The eye of the dove is vertically centered Thank you for asking. DR. BROWN: Okay. Are there any other final comments or considerations from the committee? Hearing not, seeing none, let us begin 16 our consideration. 17 the five-minute guidance. 18 members have any questions, please refrain and we will 19 answer them at the end of this component. 20 benefit of the court reporter and those calling in, I 21 ask that you state your name when you are speaking. 22 I would like to remind us, again, Additionally, if any Let's begin with Dr. Fuller. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 For the Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 82 1 DR. FULLER: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 2 This is really a great portfolio, and I 3 want to thank Don for representing his father as we 4 make our comments about this medal. 5 say -- 6 7 And I -- I'm sorry, I don't know if I had said. This is Harcourt Fuller. 8 9 And I have to I have to say, Don, that I was very moved and very touched when you spoke about the 10 ruptured duck lapel. 11 important these symbols and these images are. 12 look at one little thing, but yet it's so important. 13 And I was moved, really, because that just showed the 14 connection that you, you know, have with your father 15 and that, you know, a father has with his son. 16 thank you for sharing that. 17 And that just shows how I will support 1B. You can So I However, I would 18 like to make some comments about the various fives as 19 well as sevens. 20 21 22 So if we could look at fives, please. Thank you. What I like about the fives is, I like www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 83 1 the fact that we're seeing him as a young man, as an 2 elder. 3 show that he served as a young man and that he lived 4 long enough to tell his story about his service and 5 the service of so many other people during this, the 6 war, and all of the wonderful work he has done with 7 respect to world peace. 8 fives in that regard. I just think that that's very important to 9 10 So I really appreciate the Can we look at the sevens, please? Thank you. 11 Yeah. So I also like the sevens. I 12 think it's just a very, you know, it -- on some level 13 it shows -- it's just -- for me, it's very dignified. 14 It just really, it speaks to me with respect to the 15 work that he did. 16 eyed. 17 challenges that he faced, this country faced, and the 18 world faced, during that time period. 19 will support 1B. And he just looks, you know, bright Very hopeful about the future, despite the 20 But again, I And again, I would like to thank you 21 and your family for your service to this great 22 country. Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 84 1 MR. FERENCZ: 2 DR. BROWN: 3 Peter? 4 DR. VAN ALFEN: 5 And thank you very much. Thank you, so much. Dr. Brown, thank you very much. 6 This is Peter van Alfen. 7 I, too, would like to thank Don Ferencz 8 for his additional background to his father's life and 9 career. And the lapel pin as well; I found that a 10 very moving and touching story. 11 support 1B as the family's preference and the CFA's 12 preference as well. 13 I'm very happy to I think that this is a rather noble 14 portrait. 15 10, which I found to be a really rather striking 16 three-quarter portrait. 17 portrait and the simplicity of the obverse. 18 number 12, which shows a profile portrait. 19 I would like to call attention to obverse I really rather like the And I have to say that there does seem to 20 be a continuing preference for three-quarter and 21 facing portraits in a lot of the work that we do, but 22 I really do like these old school profile portraits as www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 85 1 well, and so very happy to see that in this portfolio, 2 which I think is a really wonderful portfolio in all. 3 So thank you. 4 DR. BROWN: Thank you, Peter. 5 Especially for the fact that you touched on the old 6 school, you know -- mature here -- like to -- time to 7 time. 8 Let's turn now to Art. 9 MR. BERNSTEIN: 10 Bernstein. 11 12 Am I correct we're speaking only to the obverse, and then we'll speak to the reverse? 13 14 This is Arthur DR. BROWN: We are actually doing them both. 15 DR. VAN ALFEN: 16 DR. BROWN: 17 DR. VAN ALFEN: Oh, okay. 18 MR. BERNSTEIN: Since we didn't hear 19 20 Oh, we are. Yes. Sorry. from Dr. Fuller or -DR. BROWN: Okay. Let me correct that. 21 Then we will do this, the obverse, since -- let's do 22 the obverse first. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 86 1 MR. BERNSTEIN: Okay. So for the 2 obverse, I too like the choice of 1B. 3 very distinguished look. 4 years of life added to that. 5 about the person being honored, and now I'm thrilled 6 to know about the lapel pin as well. 7 DR. BROWN: I think it's a I do appreciate having his I think it tells us more Please forgive me. My 8 hesitancy is because I'm looking at how we're going to 9 be doing the scoring. And I'm looking at the scoring 10 sheet, and I think that we're going to need to come 11 back to people who have not done the reverse to give 12 their feedback for the reverse at this point as well. 13 So I'm going to -- 14 15 Dr. Fuller, would you mind, in fact, giving us your view of the reverse? 16 DR. FULLER: 17 This is Dr. Harcourt Fuller again. 18 I will support the family's choice of 19 4A. 20 few observations, briefly. Absolutely, Dr. Brown. However, I would like to make a few comments, a 21 Let's start with 2A. 22 I really like 2A. I think that there's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 87 1 just so much there. 2 it's symbolic of the war. 3 brick wall as well, that appeals to me. 4 font of "Law not War." 5 you know, of "law" versus the heaviness of "war," I 6 think is very symbolic as well. 7 scales of justice, they're, you know, they're standing 8 on a solid wall. 9 So I will give 2A due consideration. 10 11 The barbed wire, you know, again There's something about the I like the I think the likeness of the, And I think the That's really what it says to me. Can we go to 3 and 3A, please? Thank you. 12 I really like 3 and 3A. We are talking 13 about a world war, and I think that for, you know, for 14 the public, I like to see the globe represented, 15 because I think it's just very straightforward and 16 direct. 17 the scales of justice connecting the world. 18 know that April had made some comments about, you 19 know, where the eyes are looking and where the scales 20 are pointed toward. 21 would definitely give some points to 3 and 3A. 22 you. I like the, you know, the dove flying with And I And I like that symbolism, so I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Thank Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 88 1 DR. BROWN: 2 Let's turn back to Peter. 3 DR. VAN ALFEN: 4 Thank you, very much. This is Peter van Alfen. 5 4a works for me. I'm happy to support 6 that as reverse. 7 would agree with the CFA's recommendation, removing 8 punctuation, however. 9 I think it'll pair well with 1B. I Thank you. DR. BROWN: Thank you. 10 Turn now to Art. 11 MR. BERNSTEIN: 12 This is Arthur Bernstein. 13 I'll speak to my ideas concerning the And I'll speak -- 14 reverse. I will share with the group, I think most of 15 you know, I manage a large law firm and I've worked in 16 the legal profession for many decades. 17 us who work in that profession find the scales of 18 justice a somewhat tired representation of law. 19 if you went to my firm's website, you will not find a 20 single scale of justice in the website. 21 certain bias towards most of the inverses which 22 feature the scales of justice, some more prominently www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And those of And So I had a Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 89 1 than others. 2 That being said, I think that the 3 family's preference, 4A, is fine, with my note about 4 the scales. 5 because it was simple and it didn't have the scales of 6 justice. I also like design reverse 1, simply 7 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 8 Let's turn now to Mike. 9 MR. MORAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 10 This is Michael Moran. 11 I'm going to respect the family's 12 judgment on the obverse of 1B. 13 point out that I like, particularly, the image in 10. 14 I think it's unusual. 15 well handled on it, and I'll at least give it 16 recognition, although I'll be voting for 1B. 17 I would also like to I think the inscriptions are On reverse, again I'll respect the 18 family. 19 for their second choice, 8A, rather than 4A. 20 again, I'll respect where the family is on that and 21 support 4A. 22 Although, I think my preference is probably Thank you. DR. BROWN: Turn to Kellen. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 But Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 90 1 MR. HOARD: Yeah. 2 the obverse. 3 look and I think it's flattering. 4 highlight 11 though. 5 I'm fine with 1B as I think it's kind of a standard, classic I also want to just I found 11 to be quite intriguing and 6 again flattering to him. I found it to be way more 7 personal. 8 you know, a podium and away from him, kind of a 9 smaller figure, but kind of near him. I felt closer to him, not so much behind, And I felt 10 almost more of a kind of a relationship to him there. 11 And it made me -- and I essentially appreciate that 12 image and I'll give that one points as well. 13 On the reverse, the one I really quite 14 liked was actually 3 and 3A. I thought 3 and 3A were 15 really quite excellent at showing the breadth of his 16 work, the continuity of his work, and the purpose of 17 his impact, where we see the extent geographically 18 and, you know, kind of metaphorically, of what he did 19 and how that continues to this day with the, you know, 20 kind of, the dove flying forward in many ways and 21 continuing to carry on that message of "law not war." 22 And also the purpose, which was really to foster www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 91 1 continual peace the world over. 2 3A did that really quite well. 3 And I thought 3 and And 3A also has, you know, that 4 wonderful saying, which I find compelling and makes me 5 want to learn more about what he did and what he 6 believed. 7 those a lot of points. 8 there, I recommend removing the punctuation as well. 9 But 3 and 3A really stuck out to me at that one. 10 So I really support those. I mean, give If we do go ahead with 4A Thank you. 11 This is Kellen Hoard, by the way. 12 DR. BROWN: 13 Thank you. That's right. I forgot about that guy. 14 Let's move on to Darla. 15 MS. JACKSON: 16 And I thank Don for the insight about This is Darla Jackson. 17 his father. That was really great to hear. I agree 18 with the family's decision of obverse 1B. 19 that he has a sort of knowing glance that shows him in 20 action, loving -- him loving what he does. 21 think the framing of the text and the dates beneath 22 are really beautiful. I think I also I think it's one of the most www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 92 1 balanced, in terms of the figure within the space, and 2 I appreciate and support that one. 3 In terms of the reverse, I do support 4 the family's decision of reverse 4A. 5 with the dropping of the punctuation. 6 olive leaves, I think against that textured background 7 to have them more simplified, that might be a really 8 nice juxtaposition between the two things. 9 I also agree And to note the I also wanted to note that the back, 10 including those stars does have them referenced 11 somewhere, so that is nice. 12 with the two sides being very -- framed very 13 symmetrically or in a very round way, having that flat 14 bottom where it says "Act of Congress 2023," gives it 15 a nice little elegant framing to the end. 16 appreciate reverse 4A for those reasons. 17 DR. BROWN: 18 Let's turn now to Dennis. 19 MR. TUCKER: 20 I think that the family's choices are And then I think that So I Thank you, so much. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 21 good. They're a bit conservative, but they accomplish 22 what a congressional gold medal is intended to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 93 1 accomplish. 2 but the reverse and obverse both speak clearly. 3 They're not experimental or innovative, For the reverse, I want to talk a bit 4 about the punctuation, and maybe address Mike and ask 5 a question of you, to Mike Costello. 6 I think the different formats of the 7 inscription themselves almost act as a form of 8 punctuation, and my understanding is that "law" would 9 be relief, and "not war" would be incuse. And that's 10 kind of a form of artistic punctuation, if you will. 11 So I'm okay with the periods being removed. 12 However, I think the periods do add a 13 more imperative tone, almost like a commandment. 14 that's something to consider. 15 So And Mike, I would just ask, is my 16 interpretation of the relief with "law and not war," 17 is that correct? 18 MR. COSTELLO: This is Mike Costello. 19 Yes, that's correct. 20 MR. TUCKER: So those are my comments. 21 I'm undecided, I think, on the punctuation, which 22 might be strange for an editor and writer to say. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 But Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 94 1 I think that that's worthy of more discussion. 2 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 3 DR. BROWN: 4 Let's turn now to John. 5 MR. SAUNDERS: Thank you. First comment I want to 6 make is, since I've been on the committee, which is 7 not that long, I've never seen so many choices. 8 was quite a portfolio. 9 for the obverse, I think the variations on 1 kind of 10 This Lot of good designs, though blow the rest of them away. 11 I thought that was a very clear choice 12 for me as what I would go with. 13 think 1B as opposed to the other ones -- variations on 14 1, is just fine. 15 honestly. 16 And, you know, I I mean, I like all of them, quite The reverse, I have a different opinion 17 on than the family. I thought 4A was okay, but I saw 18 four or five of the designs on the reverse I liked as 19 well. 20 everything else away. 21 Artistically, I most like the dove where it's not over 22 the map better, but the symbolism of the map and the But I thought that 3 just kind of blew I really like the dove. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 95 1 fact that the dove's eye is directly below the Hague, 2 I think sways me to go with the 3A as my first choice. 3 I really like that design. 4 the symbol piece there. I like the dove, I like 5 If we do go with 4A, the question about 6 periods, I didn't even know why the periods were there 7 in the first place. 8 one-word sentence you don't necessarily need to put a 9 punctuation point to -- after -- if you were going to I mean, normally, if you have a 10 put a -- to Deniss's point, if you were going to put 11 emphasis on there, I would use an exclamation point 12 rather than a period to really put some emphasis 13 there. 14 eliminating the periods. But so I'm in favor, if we do go with 4A, of But I'm a fan of 3A. 15 DR. BROWN: 16 Let's turn now to Chris. 17 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 18 19 Thank you, so much. All right. This is Chris Capozzola. I think I'm excited about this 20 congressional gold medal. I think it's a great chance 21 to reflect on Ferencz's long life and his 22 significance, and in particular, not only in the late www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 96 1 1940s at Nuremburg, but also a lifelong commitment to 2 international law and the law of war, which is of 3 course very timely right at this moment. 4 I think -- I have learned a lot in the 5 last few minutes, and so my thinking is evolving. I 6 certainly am excited about, for the obverse, about the 7 1 series. 8 dates are cluttered on a coin, but I do think there's 9 an argument to be made to consider them in this place Ordinarily, I think that birth and death 10 because Ferencz's longevity and also his commitment to 11 Holocaust survivors suggests, kind of, like, a 12 century-long work that ordinarily wouldn't be there. 13 But I'm fine with 1A without that. 14 terms of the obverse. 15 And so that's in Just to flag a couple of other things, 16 I did actually, which no one has mentioned, I did 17 like, and I wanted to call out, 13A. 18 series, but particularly 13A, which I thought was a 19 kind of interesting and creative sort of way of doing 20 things. I -- or the 13 21 On the reverse, the reverse for me was 22 a real challenge, because -- the challenge here is to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 97 1 depict law and peace in both word and image, and I 2 think that can -- or many of these designs aimed to do 3 that, and I think that may actually be too much. 4 sometimes some of the designs have nothing other than 5 mirroring one -- internal mirroring of word and image. And 6 So 4 and 4A I think do that, right. 7 They offer the same thing four times, essentially. 8 And so while I'm certainly happy to support 4A. 9 think including the five stars is important if we go 10 with the obverse of 1A that does not have the stars. 11 And I I also, you know, over the course of 12 the last few minutes have come around to consideration 13 of 3A, and in particular, 3A with the text around the 14 end, "The conscience of humanity is the foundation of 15 all law." Thanks. 16 DR. BROWN: Thak you, so much. 17 This is Lawrence Brown, and I was 18 really moved by this program, particularly the wealth 19 of designs. 20 diversity of designs that they have provided. 21 someone, as I shared with you, is -- with a veterans 22 background, being a veteran, I'm really mindful of the I want to commend the Mint for the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 As Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 98 1 fact that, as we communicate things, that we 2 communicate it based on what is really important. 3 It seems to me that the -- as much as 4 it was invaluable for his role during World War II, 5 the most important thing was what he did, in fact, to 6 prosecute those, in fact, who were the cause of why we 7 had World War II. 8 greater emphasis to that part of his life than the 9 part that he was, in fact, in the military. So to me, it is important to give Now, I 10 don't take away from anyone's service in the military, 11 as someone who has served. 12 think we need to make sure that when we do that, that 13 we are fully communicating the significance of the 14 things that we put on the coin -- or on the medal. 15 But at the same time, I In that sense, I think that we do need 16 to make sure that we have sufficient information about 17 the five stars; that we need to go into detail. 18 Because to me, to communicate that and then to have 19 veterans groups saying, "What does that really mean?" 20 it's not going to be something that's going to be as 21 well embraced as it would be were we to include that 22 in the narrative. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 99 1 The other thing I'd like to say is that 2 I was really impressed by the -- and I realize that we 3 don't actually have this inscription on any of the 4 designs, but the phrase of "replace the law of force 5 with the force of law." 6 powerful inscription. 7 enough space, but I just needed to say that to you; 8 that it just moves me. 9 be really impressive. 10 To me, that would be such a I do understand we may not have When you could see that, it'd The other thing that I really was -- as 11 much as I would certainly support the opinion of the 12 family, I'm also really interested in making sure that 13 we ensure that when we use symbolism, like a sword, a 14 broken sword, that it has different meanings depending 15 on the context. 16 means defeat. 17 change, no longer an end of a life, in fact, legacy. 18 So we have to make sure that when we use those that 19 we, in fact, take that in consideration. 20 like many of my colleagues, would join those in 21 supporting those by the family. 22 In certain military contexts, that In other contexts, it may mean a But I, too, I would lean away from those candidate www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 100 1 designs that have the five stars, unless we can add 2 that with sufficient detail as a part of the program. 3 Thank you so much. 4 I'll ask now the committee, are there 5 any additional comments or motions from the members at 6 this time? 7 8 Mr. Costello, do you have anything that you would like to add? 9 10 MR. COSTELLO: Nothing here. Thank you. 11 DR. BROWN: Okay. 12 Mr. Ferencz, do you have anything that 13 you would like to add based on the fact of what you've 14 heard thus far? 15 MR. FERENCZ: No, not in particular. 16 Other than to, once again, thank all of you for your 17 very thoughtful comment and criticism, looking 18 critically at the various presentations. 19 thought about some of the discussion related, for 20 example, to whether or not taking off periods in "law 21 not war," and I'm completely neutral on that. 22 I think, quite frankly, that the visual presentation www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I had not Because Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 101 1 with or without the punctuation will get the message 2 across very clearly. 3 My dad, by the way, in many, many, 4 many, many of his lectures, in fact virtually all of 5 them, would say that there are three words, "law not 6 war," that people need to keep in mind. 7 think that that's significant. 8 9 And so I I appreciate very much the comment about the expression "replacing the law of force with 10 the force of law." 11 times. 12 many years ago, which has now been liquidated, where I 13 had hung my card educating "replace the law of force 14 with the force of law." 15 my dad's three-word, you know, jingle, if you will, 16 "law not war," because he tried to condense it into 17 three words. My dad, in fact, created a private foundation 18 19 It's a phrase I've used many, many But I would defer myself to And so I appreciate those three words. And again, my thanks to everybody there. 20 DR. BROWN: 21 Any further discussion for the 22 Thank you, so much. committee? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 102 1 MR. HOARD: 2 ratification, if I could? 3 I had a question just about I'm just curious, not necessarily with 4 this medal, but in terms of how we use this phrase 5 effectively. 6 ever do edged lettering? On congressional gold medals, do you 7 MR. COSTELLO: 8 This is Mike Costello. 9 We do not do edged lettering on 10 We do not -- congressional gold medals. 11 MR. HOARD: Okay. 12 MR. COSTELLO: Thank you. They're a splash dive, 13 so we don't have -- it's not fixed in the collar, 14 so -- 15 MR. HOARD: Okay. Thank you. 16 DR. BROWN: Any further questions? 17 Hearing none, the committee will now 18 score the obverse and reverse designs for the Benjamin 19 Ferencz Congressional Gold Medal. 20 sheet in front of you. 21 minutes, at least. 22 Each of you have a Let's take, again, about five Maybe a little bit more. UNKNOWN SPEAKER: It may be closer to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 103 1 ten minutes. I'll let you know more about that. 2 3 MS. WARREN: Okay. We will come back about 1:40. 4 DR. BROWN: 5 (Off the record.) 6 MS. WARREN: 7 It's 1:30. We're off the record. Okay. We're back. It's 1:42. 8 Court reporter, are you ready? 9 THE REPORTER: 10 MS. WARREN: 11 DR. BROWN: Yes. Okay. Dr. Brown. We are back. I recognize 12 now, Greg Weinman, counsel to the CCAC, to provide us 13 the results of the scoring. 14 MR. WEINMAN: We'll start with the 15 obverse. Once again, this is out of a possible 33 16 points. Obverse 1 has 9 points. 17 points. Obverse 1B has 33 points, making it the 18 number 1 vote -- score -- 19 Obverse 1A has 11 Obverse 2 has three points. Obverse 4 has four points. Obverse 3 20 has two points. Obverse 5 21 has four points. 22 five points, 6 has four points, 7 has seven points, Obverse 5A has five points, 5B has www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 104 1 7A has seven points, 8 has three points, 9 has two 2 points. 3 seven points. 4 12 has eight, 12A has three, 13 has three, 13A has 5 eight, and 13B has four. 6 Obverse 10 has thirteen. Obverse 11 has Obverse 11A has five points. Moving onto the reverses. Obverse Reverse 1 7 has eight points. Reverse 2 has four points. Reverse 8 2A has eight points. 9 Reverse 3A has fifteen points; 3B has five points; 4 Reverse 3 has thirteen points. 10 has ten points; 4A has 25 points, and that is the 11 high-scoring design. 12 Reverse 6 has one point. 13 Reverse 8 has seven points. 14 points. 15 received one point. 16 17 Reverse 5 has three points. Reverse 7 has two points. Reverse 8A has eight Reverse 9 has five points and reverse 10 Once again, the high vote getters are obverse -- reverse 4A and obverse 1B. 18 DR. BROWN: Thank you, Greg. 19 Are there any motions? 20 Dennis. 21 MR. TUCKER: 22 I move that we recommend obverse design This is Dennis Tucker. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 105 1 1B to the secretary of the Treasury, and also 2 recommend reverse design 4A with the periods removed. 3 4 DR. BROWN: just for the sake of -- 5 MR. TUCKER: 6 DR. BROWN: 7 I'm sorry? I'm just asking if we can display those so that we know what we're -- 8 9 Can we display those again, MR. BERNSTEIN: And Art Bernstein would second the motion. 10 DR. BROWN: 11 Any conversation or discussion on the 12 motion? 13 14 Thank you. DR. VAN ALFEN: Yeah. This is Peter van Alfen. 15 I have to say, Dennis, I was rather 16 impressed by your interpretation of the periods. 17 although I had suggested that we adopt the reverse 18 without the periods, I'm now having second thoughts 19 thanks to you. 20 discussion about periods before we move on that 21 motion. 22 I wouldn't mind having a short As I said, I think you made a very www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 106 1 forceful argument for the periods, and I'd be willing 2 to change my mind on that. 3 something we'd like to discuss or not, or just go 4 ahead with the motion. 5 So I don't know if this is And since you proposed the motion 6 without the periods, maybe you could offer your 7 comments on why you've now changed your mind. 8 9 10 MR. TUCKER: Well, I could modify the motion, I suppose, just to focus on the obverse, if that is procedurally correct, or -- 11 DR. BROWN: I mean, it's possible. You 12 can revise your motion because you're the maker of it. 13 That's true. 14 respond to Peter with respect to the rationale that 15 you had for the motion that you made. 16 But I think it may be easier just to MR. TUCKER: Well, my comment about the 17 terminal punctuation, the periods, was that they do 18 add an element of commandment and make the statement 19 much more imperative and forceful. 20 that's -- I mean, I suppose we must assume that that 21 was the artist's intent, and the artist's 22 interpretation of Mr. Ferencz's statements and his I don't know if www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 107 1 thoughts. So there's an argument for keeping the 2 punctuation. 3 DR. FULLER: 4 DR. BROWN: 5 If I may, Mr. Chairman. Dennis, have you completed your thoughts? 6 I have. That's -- yeah. 7 DR. BROWN: 8 Dr. Fuller. 9 DR. FULLER: Okay. Yes. I believe that -- 10 and I know this will come out -- this won't be in 11 black and white when the medal is minted. 12 believe that the periods should be removed because, 13 you know, "law" is a -- is depicted in a different 14 color or shape than "not war." 15 alone differentiates the one from the other. 16 that case, I just think the periods are not necessary. 17 Thank you. 18 19 20 MR. TUCKER: However, I So I think that that And in This is Dennis Tucker again. I would point out again that "law" is 21 going to be in relief. So that if you run your hand 22 over the medal, the surface of the medal, "law" is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 108 1 given prominence, physical, tactile, visual. And then 2 "not war" will be set within the field. 3 recessed or incused, which implies less prominence. 4 So -- and I heard -- I think I heard It'll be 5 enough objection or discomfort from the committee to 6 suggest that the periods really are not necessary, or 7 they're jarring to the eye, or for whatever reason 8 they -- it's just something that people object to. 9 that was my reason for -- those combined reasons. 10 So You know, the fact that the format of 11 the medal itself acts as a form of punctuation, and 12 the fact that there's just something jarring to the 13 eye having the periods terminate those two statements. 14 That's why I worked that into the motion as I did. 15 16 DR. VAN ALFEN: Alfen. 17 18 I'd be happy to proceed with the motion as proposed, then. 19 20 DR. BROWN: Any other comments with respect to the motion that's -- 21 22 This is Peter van MR. HOARD: I suggest semicolons. semicolons. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Only Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 109 1 2 DR. BROWN: Okay. So you're offering this as a friendly amendment? 3 MR. HOARD: I'm not. 4 DR. BROWN: Thank you very much. 5 Moving right along. 6 Any other comments with respect to the 7 8 9 motion? There's one I'd like to offer as a friendly amendment. For the sake of appreciation of 10 what the five stars mean, I think that for people who 11 are not in the military, they may think one thing, as 12 if this person is a -- was an officer, so you have to 13 be careful about that. 14 So my friendly amendment is that there 15 be, accompanied with this, some further information 16 about the -- information about the five battle stars. 17 Because I think that's going to be particularly 18 important for veterans to be able to appreciate the 19 significance of that. 20 amendment, and I'm hoping that the maker of the motion 21 would accept that. 22 So that's just my friendly MR. TUCKER: I would accept that. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 110 1 2 DR. BROWN: accept it. 3 4 MR. BERNSTEIN: And I'm not clear on what your amendment -- 5 6 The seconder also needs to DR. BROWN: So the amendment here suggests to seek further judicial -- 7 The person is Arthur Bernstein. 8 THE REPORTER: 9 The person not willing to accept -- 10 DR. BROWN: Is Mr. Arthur Bernstein. 11 THE REPORTER: 12 DR. BROWN: 13 So my friendly amendment is to actually Oh. Sorry. Got it. This is Lawrence Brown. 14 seek further information so that when this coin is 15 produced, it actually includes further clarity about 16 the campaigns that were associated with the five 17 battle stars. 18 five battle stars. 19 were the campaigns associated with that, to explain 20 that. 21 22 Because the five stars refer to the So the question then becomes, what And the reason why I say that for the sake of the public, and I'm just not trying to brag, I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 111 1 have a bronze star. 2 to have five battle stars, that may mean they had a 3 bronze star, a silver star, or some combination to 4 equal the five, or may have some other significance. 5 But I think the public should, in fact, understand 6 whatever that significance is of the five battle 7 stars. 8 9 That's one star. MR. BERNSTEIN: So for someone So this is Arthur Bernstein. 10 I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just 11 trying to put this in a form that leads to some 12 action, and I'm wondering if -- 13 MS. STAFFORD: We're happy to take 14 that. There's ancillary materials that are developed 15 around the congressional gold medal: 16 certificates of authenticity, design descriptions. 17 We're happy to take that back and ensure that we 18 incorporate a reference to explain the five stars. web pages, 19 MR. BERNSTEIN: 20 Is this subject to verification that he 21 22 So it -- Art Bernstein. earned five stars? MS. STAFFORD: I think we're www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 112 1 comfortable that we have the verification necessary. 2 We have from the United Nations website that speaks to 3 his five battle stars, which I think some people use 4 the term "service stars" now. 5 his service. 6 That he earned during So in terms of verification, the Mint, 7 I would say, is comfortable with that. And that would 8 have -- they wouldn't have been depicted in the 9 design. I don't hear the chairman saying that there's 10 a question about the veracity of it as much as the 11 need to provide context so that people can appreciate 12 their meaning. 13 Is that correct? 14 DR. BROWN: 15 This is Lawrence Brown. 16 That is correct. 17 MR. BERNSTEIN: 18 That is correct. Happy to accept your friendly amendment. 19 This is Art Bernstein. 20 DR. BROWN: So we have a motion that's 21 been seconded, along with friendly amendments. 22 this point, are there any other further discussions? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 At Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 113 1 2 Hearing none, all those in favor, signify by saying "aye." 3 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 4 DR. BROWN: 5 Motion carries unanimously. 6 Thank you, so much, everyone, for your 7 Aye. Those opposed, "nay." participation. 8 And, Mr. Ferencz, we want to thank you 9 for your time that you have given to this program, to 10 this conversation. 11 We really appreciate it. We will now turn back to consideration 12 of candidate design for the 2025 American Women's 13 Quarters Program. 14 The second reverse candidate design is 15 the 2025 American Women Quarters program honoring Ida 16 B. Wells. 17 Ms. Stafford, again, in fact, provided 18 us an introduction to the program, as well as present 19 the reverse candidate designs. 20 MS. STAFFORD: 21 Ida B. Wells was a prolific educator, 22 Thank you. journalist, feminist, businesswoman, civil rights www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 114 1 activist, and leader. 2 National Association for the Advancement of Colored 3 People, a founder of the National Association of 4 Colored Women's Club, a founder of the Alpha Suffrage 5 Club, and a founder of the Negro Fellowship League. 6 She was a founder of the Although she battled with sexism, 7 racism, and violence, she used her voice and the power 8 of pen to shed light on the condition of African 9 Americans throughout the South. She endured a 10 considerable amount of criticism, and even threats to 11 her life, but never gave up her fight for equality and 12 justice that lasted almost 50 years. 13 In 1892, after the lynching of three of 14 her friends who owned a grocery store that rivaled a 15 white-owned store, her life changed. 16 and investigated this targeted and senseless act of 17 cruelty and violence, and many others like it. 18 articles enraged white locals so much, they burned her 19 printing press while she was away, and the threats to 20 her life became so great, that she was forced to flee 21 the South. 22 to pursue justice and truth telling, which would raise She wrote about These The threats only fueled her determination www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 115 1 her to national and international acclaim over the 2 next decade of her life. 3 Throughout her career, Wells balanced 4 motherhood and activism, and began working with 5 Frederick Douglass, W.E.B. Dubois, Booker T. 6 Washington, and other well-known civil rights 7 activists as a member of the black women's clubs. 8 also became active in the suffrage movement. 9 a speaking tour abroad, she openly confronted white She While on 10 women in the suffrage movement who ignored the plight 11 of black people. 12 As a wife and mother, Wells was so 13 deeply committed to advancing the rights of women and 14 advocating for children that she ran in the Illinois 15 State Senate race in 1930, at a time when it was 16 inconceivable that any woman, let alone a black woman, 17 would run for political office. 18 election, as Angela Tate, curator of women's history 19 at the National Museum of African American History and 20 Culture, wrote in her letter of recommendation, "This 21 loss reveals less about the viability of her 22 platforms, and more about how often society wanted to Although she lost the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 116 1 suppress and silence this powerful and empowering 2 woman." 3 journalist, suffragist, and civil rights activist, 4 Wells exemplifies the extraordinary qualities of 5 women, while also reflecting the ways that African 6 American women saw their work benefiting the wider 7 community." She also writes that, "As an educator, 8 9 All designs include a likeness of Ida B. Wells, with the required inscriptions, "United 10 States of America," and "E Pluribus Unum." 11 inscription, "Ida B. Wells," and the denomination. 12 The common As noted previously, we are fortunate 13 to have family representatives here with us, Michelle 14 and Daniel Duster. 15 Welcome. 16 words to the committee? 17 yourselves. 18 Would you care to say a few You might need to unmute MS. DUSTER: This is Michelle. Yeah, 19 this is Michelle. Thank you so much for having us, 20 being included in the meeting, and hopefully we can 21 offer our comments and ideas. 22 privilege that our great grandmother is being honored And it's just such a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 117 1 in this way. 2 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you so much. 3 of course, if the committee has questions, we will 4 come to you. 5 And Not only are they family 6 representatives, but I know, Michelle, you're also an 7 author and a public historian concerning Ida B. Wells, 8 so that will come in handy if you have any specific 9 questions about this great woman's legacy. 10 So we will go through the candidate 11 designs. I will stop at the ones that are preferred 12 or have been identified as a recommendation by any of 13 our stakeholders. 14 me to read other design descriptions, please let me 15 know. 16 If any committee member would like We'll start with candidate design 1, 2, 17 2B, 3, 4, 5, 6. Candidate design 6 features Wells as 18 she gazes courageously and proudly toward the future. 19 This design includes the additional inscriptions 20 "Journalism," "Suffrage," "Civil Rights." 21 family's first preference, as well as the 22 recommendation of the CFA. This is the I will note that the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 118 1 family has a request that the inscriptions, 2 "Journalism," "Suffrage," "Civil Rights," be replaced 3 with "Journalist," "Suffragist," and "Civil Rights 4 Activist," which you'll see on the next design, 6A. 5 6 And if we could just flip back to the first preference of the family, design 6. 7 I'll just note that our liaisons 8 indicated that they preferred this image because of 9 the very strong depiction of Ida B. Wells. It 10 represents all three areas of her work, rather than 11 just journalism, and that they felt that the age that 12 she's depicted as in this image is very similar to the 13 timeframe when she was, in fact, at the height of her 14 journalism and activism career, so they felt connected 15 to that. 16 17 Moving onto 6A, and 7. And that concludes the candidate designs. 18 Chairman Brown. 19 DR. BROWN: 20 From the committee, are there any 21 22 Thank you, so much. technical or legal questions? DR. FULLER: Mr. Chairman, this is Dr. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 119 1 Fuller. 2 DR. BROWN: 3 DR. FULLER: Yes, Dr. Fuller. May I ask April if she 4 would kindly go back over the images a quick -- 5 quickly one more time? Thank you very much. 6 MS. STAFFORD: Absolutely. 7 So we have 1, 2, 2B, 3, 4, 5, 6. Six 8 is the preferred design of the family, as well as the 9 recommendation of the Commission of Fine Arts. The 10 family would request that the inscriptions you see 11 here are actually replaced with "Journalist," 12 "Suffragist," and "Civil Rights Activist," 13 inscriptions that you see on 6A. 14 candidate design 7. 15 DR. BROWN: 16 DR. FULLER: 17 MS. STAFFORD: 18 DR. BROWN: 19 22 Let's -Thank you. Yes, sir. Dr. Fuller, you have additional -- 20 21 And finally, DR. FULLER: No. I just wanted to thank April. Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 120 1 MS. STAFFORD: 2 DR. BROWN: 3 Let's turn to Art. 4 MR. BERNSTEIN: 5 You're welcome. Thank you. This is Arthur Bernstein. 6 I have three questions. 7 First is, April, I wasn't clear on the 8 difference between 6A and 6 in the document that we 9 have. 10 I thought it -- it says 6A is the family's first preference. 11 12 MS. STAFFORD: you to confirm? 13 MS. DUSTER: 14 MS. STAFFORD: 15 So Michelle, can I ask Yes. Design 6, as seen here -- 16 MS. DUSTER: I think -- I don't know -- 17 I think something got switched up. 18 6. 19 MS. STAFFORD: 20 MS. DUSTER: Because we prefer Yes. Prefer it as -- 21 everything. As far as the image of her from the -- 22 you know, below the waist and up, the way that her www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 121 1 name is positioned inside of the quarter, you know, 2 you can see her hand. 3 first choice. 4 wording be changed from what you see to "Suffragist," 5 "Journalist, "Civil Rights Activist." 6 somehow the name and the -- got flipped. 7 All that, we -- that's our And all we requested was that the So maybe So what you said is what we prefer. 8 is our first choice with the wording from 6B -- from 9 6 -- I mean, 6 was our preferred everything, but the 10 wording "Suffragist," "Journalist, "Civil Rights 11 Activist," is the only change we would want. 12 MS. STAFFORD: 13 So just to confirm for the committee, 6A Okay. 14 design 6, as seen here, is the family's preference, 15 but rather than saying "Journalism," they'd like it to 16 say "Journalist," rather than "Suffrage," they'd like 17 it to say "Suffragist," and rather than "Civil 18 Rights," they'd like it to say "Civil Rights 19 Activist." 20 So thank you. 21 MR. BERNSTEIN: 22 clarification. Thank you for that. Thank you for that I had two other questions. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 122 1 This is Arthur Bernstein. 2 Sticking with my interest in jewelry, I 3 noticed that Ms. Wells, in both 6 and 6A, is wearing a 4 feather lapel item. 5 is. 6 And I was curious as to what that And secondly, in -- 6 has her without a 7 broach around her neck, and 6A has her with a broach, 8 and I was curious as to why we would want one or the 9 other. 10 MS. DUSTER: Are you asking me? You 11 know what, I -- noticed a broach. 12 I don't think there's necessarily a significance when 13 it comes to the broach on her lapel. 14 first design that we acknowledged she had on a 15 necklace, and we never saw very many pictures of her 16 wearing a necklace, but she did wear broaches. 17 that was the recommendation; that she had a broach on 18 the lapel of her jacket. 19 MR. BERNSTEIN: 20 DR. BROWN: 21 MR. SAUNDERS: 22 The only -- the -- Okay. It was just the So Thank you. Turn to John. I was just going to follow up -- Art's -- thing and ask about the feather www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 123 1 on the lapel. 2 answered. He beat me to it, so it's been 3 DR. BROWN: 4 Let's go to, in fact, well, Pete -- I'm 5 sorry. Thank you. Mike. 6 MR. MORAN: 7 I've got a question for Mike Costello, 8 Thank you, Dr. Brown. soon as he gets done with April. 9 I've got a question for you. If you 10 make the adjustments that the family would like to see 11 on 6 versus 6A, are we going to run out of space with 12 the fonts that you've employed and the letter sizes? 13 On the other hand, you -- I just don't see how you'd 14 get "Civil Rights Activist" in here and deal with "E 15 Pluribus Unum" and the inscriptions that run along the 16 rim. 17 It would seem to me that what you'd end 18 up having to do to comply with the family's wishes is 19 take the image in 6 and the inscriptions in 6A. 20 MR. COSTELLO: 21 Great question, Mike. 22 discussing this with her. This is Mike Costello. I was just Yes, that's exactly what we www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 124 1 would do. 2 3 MR. MORAN: We'll get around to that in motions. 4 5 Okay. MR. COSTELLO: I just noticed that we're going to run out of room in "activist." 6 MS. DUSTER: The problem with 6A -- I 7 mean, 6A is that her name goes around the rim, and so 8 it's not as immediately, you know, noticed. 9 DR. BROWN: Other questions? 10 Chris. 11 MR. CAPOZZOLA: I have a question. 12 might be for April, but I actually think it's for 13 Michelle Duster. 14 It If you could just talk to us a little 15 bit about the name choice Ida B. Wells. 16 sometimes published in works as Ida B. Wells-Barnett. 17 Image 6 appears with a wedding ring that I think is 18 a -- based on a photograph from the 1890s. 19 want to make sure that we're very accurate there. 20 MS. DUSTER: She's I just Yeah, and that's a good 21 point. I mean, she did go by Ida B. Wells-Barnett 22 after she got married, and in that image she has on a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 125 1 wedding band, so I guess technically she would be 2 Barnett at that point. 3 projects that are in her name tend to not use the 4 "Barnett." 5 Ida B. Wells-Holmes that was just Ida B. Wells-Holmes, 6 it was not Ida B. Wells-Barnett-Holmes. 7 others think that she was Ida B. Wells. 8 9 But she -- most of the Including here in Chicago, there was an And so many So for name recognition purposes, that's the most -- when she's recognized the most, and 10 that was also the name that she had when she was at 11 the -- I guess, when she was the most well known as a 12 journalist. 13 women, when, you know, when they hyphenate or change 14 their names. So it is kind of a tricky thing with 15 MR. CAPOZZOLA: 16 DR. BROWN: 17 DR. FULLER: 18 DR. BROWN: 19 DR. FULLER: Thank you. Any other questions? Yes. This is Dr. Fuller. Please, proceed. This message -- this 20 question is also for Ms. Duster, if I may. 21 the -- I guess my question is, could we use "Wells" 22 and not "Wells-Barnett" on the one hand while www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So with Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 126 1 having -- while showing her wedding ring? 2 words, would we be able to use just "Wells" in 3 addition to showing her wedding ring in the same 4 image? 5 And that might also be a question for the Mint staff 6 as well. 7 I suppose that, you know, that's the question. Thank you. MS. DUSTER: 8 call. 9 have a problem with that. 10 So in other My brother is also on the Maybe he can chime in. MS. STAFFORD: But I personally don't And neither did the 11 scholars with whom we worked from the Smithsonian or 12 the National Women's History Museum. 13 really work very closely with all of our stakeholders 14 to ensure that the name in full -- whether we use 15 doctor, whether we don't, whether we use middle 16 initials or not, and if there's a traceability to 17 that, an that can be made to ensure that the correct 18 representation is being used. We actually 19 DR. FULLER: Thank you, April. 20 DR. BROWN: 21 I have one question for the family. 22 Given what you've heard with respect to Any other questions? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 127 1 how the "activist" would actually not likely be able 2 to fit on the design 6, are you receptive to any -- 3 making any modifications, so that instead of saying 4 "Civil Rights Activist," just saying "Activist"? 5 MS. DUSTER: I mean, I think that would 6 be a reasonable compromise, because she was an 7 activist. 8 says "civil rights activist." You know, it's just being specific when it 9 DR. BROWN: 10 11 Thank you, so much. DR. VAN ALFEN: This is Peter van Alfen. 12 Just have a question for Mike and the 13 design team about the problem with trying to fit the 14 inscription. 15 the denomination, into the bands? 16 inscription slightly to fit "25 cents" in there, or 17 including that necessary bit, and then maybe moving "E 18 Pluribus Unum" to where "quarter dollar" is in 6, so 19 you still have a band around, but the denomination 20 then would be in the band itself? Would it be possible to put "25 cents," Just open up the 21 MR. COSTELLO: This is Mike Costello. 22 While we definitely can make that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 128 1 happen, I've just got to make sure it's legally sound. 2 I've never seen that before, myself. 3 4 MS. DUSTER: well. I don't know if I got muted by somebody else. 5 6 I really can't hear very DR. VAN ALFEN: Sorry. This is Peter van Alfen. 7 I was just asking if it would be 8 possible to move "25 cents" in 6A into the bands 9 surrounding, and then moving "E Pluribus Unum" to 10 where "quarter dollar" is written in 6, and that way 11 we could move "civil rights activist" into 6 and still 12 have all the necessary inscriptions. 13 14 15 MR. WEINMAN: And this is Greg Weinman -MS. DUSTER: I think that would be a 16 good compromise too. 17 with "civil rights" being specific as far as the type 18 of activist, and obviously we all know there's a lot 19 of different kinds of -- people are active or 20 activists for a lot of different causes, and, you 21 know, Ida was specific about "civil rights." 22 You know, because the thing is MR. WEINMAN: And this is Greg Weinman. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 129 1 The question was "is there any 2 restriction on how we depict the denomination." 3 in this program. 4 could -- it could be "quarter dollar" is written out, 5 or it could be "25 cents," as it has been on other 6 quarters in this program. 7 standpoint it would work, there's no legal restriction 8 on not doing -- on doing that. 9 In this particular program, we So if from a production MR. COSTELLO: 10 Not DR. BROWN: Thank you. This is Lawrence Brown, and 11 I'm reminded, and I'd like to share with the public, 12 that we on the committee try to stay away from doing a 13 lot of redesign of a coin in front of us, even though 14 we're tempted to do so from time to time. 15 heard a lot for which suggests that we're going to 16 probably continue to have a robust discussion, because 17 this is not going to be easy -- an easy task, putting 18 in, number 1, the figure in a position that is, in 19 fact, as prominent as it is in 6; and then at the same 20 time putting the, in fact, inscriptions around it as 21 is in 6A. 22 But I've It's not going to be an easy task. So I would suggest then that we begin www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 130 1 our considerations, because this may very well change 2 how we go forward. 3 Donald? 4 MR. SCARINCI: Point of order. Would 5 it be appropriate -- because I seem to be hearing 6 everyone talking about 6. 7 preference, would it be appropriate just to make the 8 motion on 6 and go on to discuss how to change it? 9 10 DR. BROWN: MR. SCARINCI: DR. BROWN: Motion by Donald, second by Mike. 15 16 Motion on the table for 6. 13 14 There is a motion on the table. 11 12 And if that's everyone's You want a clarification of the motion? Is that what you're saying, Dennis? 17 MR. TUCKER: 18 This is Dennis Tucker. 19 I would like discussion before we vote. 20 MR. SCARINCI: 21 motion. 22 any disagreement. Well, I would like -- Okay. I'll withdraw the I don't want to stifle discussion if there's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 131 1 DR. BROWN: So the motion on the table 2 doesn't stifle discussion. 3 on the table, then we can have an open discussion of 4 the pros and cons of the motion. 5 6 So once we get the motion So do you want to still remove your motion? 7 MR. SCARINCI: 8 DR. BROWN: 9 No, no. That's fine. So we have a motion and we have a second. 10 Dennis, are you -- 11 MR. TUCKER: My discussion of the 12 motion would be, I would rather have a review of the 13 design portfolio before we focus only on number 6. 14 DR. BROWN: Any additional comments 15 with respect to the motion on the table? 16 Kellen. 17 MR. HOARD: 18 This is Kellen Hoard. 19 I would agree with Dennis. 20 MR. SCARINCI: I would agree with Dennis. I'll withdraw the 21 motion. I just thought I was hearing everybody and -- 22 I was -- I thought we had a consensus. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 132 1 DR. BROWN: Understood. 2 Motion has been withdrawn. 3 So then, on that basis -- unless 4 there's any other questions or comments. 5 none, let us begin our consideration. 6 and every one of us that we have five minutes in which 7 to make our comments. 8 court reporter, please -- for -- and for those calling 9 in, I ask that you state your name before you begin to 10 Hearing Reminding each And for the benefit of the speak. 11 So let's then begin with Peter. 12 DR. VAN ALFEN: 13 Dr. Brown, thank you very much. 14 This is Peter van Alfen. 15 Just want to thank the Dusters for 16 joining us today, and just would like to just remark 17 at what a compelling and courageous life Ida B. Wells 18 had. 19 time the last couple of weeks reading about her and 20 her life, and reading some of what she wrote; really, 21 very inspirational. 22 year-old daughter to be reading about as well, too. I have to admit that I've spent a great deal of And someday, I would like my 11- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 133 1 So that said, I do have to agree that 6 2 is, I believe, the best portrait. 3 this captures her immense determination. 4 strong portrait. 5 be within that field, just so it is much, much more 6 legible. 7 inscriptions, and this is something that we can 8 discuss a little bit later. 9 the portfolio, and I'll just leave it at that. 10 I really think that It's a very I agree that "Ida B. Wells" has to There, obviously, is a problem with the But I do like 6 best of Thank you. 11 DR. BROWN: Thank you. 12 Let's turn now to Donald. 13 MR. SCARINCI: I support 6, take the 14 ring off, and make the adjustments in the lettering as 15 we've just discussed, and we're good to go. 16 DR. BROWN: Dennis. 17 MR. TUCKER: 18 This is Dennis Tucker. 19 I actually think design 4 is one that's Thank you, Mr. Chair. 20 worthy of consideration. To me, this is a strong 21 portrait; it's a beautiful portrait. 22 tell you what she was about, we have suffrage and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 The inscriptions Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 134 1 civil rights. 2 which was journalism. 3 rewards the viewer upon closer inspection, and what 4 the closer look reveals is a very clever touch, which 5 is the liberty torch is actually a pen. 6 has a bit more clever symbolism than what we see in 7 portrait 6, which is also, you know, a fine portrait. 8 And I also like the little bit of added physical 9 action. 10 11 And they also tell you how she did it, But this is a design that So I think it She's actually holding the papers. So that spoke to me as well. So for me, design 4 is one that 12 captures a lot of what number 6 is trying to capture, 13 and it saves us a bit of this wrestling and arguing 14 over placement and positioning. 15 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 16 DR. BROWN: 17 Let's turn to Harcourt. 18 DR. FULLER: 19 This is Dr. Fuller. 20 I would like to support the, you know, Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 21 Duster's preference. But I do think that -- I think, 22 if I may, I would have to say that I do think that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 135 1 it's too wordy, and that would have to be worked out. 2 I think it clutters the design with all of the, of 3 course, very wonderful things that she did, which 4 needs to be highlighted. 5 definitely have to be worked out. 6 amended, rather. 7 But I think that would I would -- or I also agree with Dennis with respect 8 to 4. I think it's a very strong design. 9 illumination of the, you know, torch. I like the And I like the 10 way how she has a very determined look in her eyes, 11 which I think is very appealing. 12 fact that she's holding the papers, which are symbolic 13 of her, you know, her profession. 14 favorite design is 1. 15 16 And I also like the However, I think my If we may look at that, please. Thank you. 17 There is something absolutely striking 18 about this design. I mean, the first time I saw it, I 19 actually wrote the word "yes" three times. 20 it pops. 21 just looks so determined, so focused on her mission. 22 I think that the way how the words "Journalism," It just -- Her name, of course, you know, pops. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 She Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 136 1 "Suffrage," and "Civil Rights" are written, it's in 2 one -- they're in one place, and so we know exactly 3 what she did. 4 that, space-wise, you know, having these words and 5 phrases around her really, really works. And of 6 course, we can see that she's writing on a pad. 7 I like the "25 cents." I just think I just think this, for me, is the 8 strongest design. I will be giving this full points. 9 And in addition to that, I would also support the 10 family's choice, but I think this is the strongest 11 design. 12 Thank you. 13 DR. BROWN: 14 Kellen. 15 MR. HOARD: 16 This is Kellen Hoard. 17 I agree with Harcourt in many ways, and 18 some of the other members who have spoken, that Ida B. 19 Wells was such a force in so many areas, and anybody 20 who is of her stature in achieving change, I hesitate 21 to put with a still bust. 22 action on the coin, because I think that more Thank you, so much. Thank you. I prefer to see them in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 137 1 accurately captures, you know, kind of, who they were 2 than, maybe, a still portrait. 3 For that reason, I kind of shy away 4 from the 6 series, because it seems too still for how 5 much work that she did. 6 7. 7 captured her compellingly in action doing her work; 8 doing it at scale. 9 too jammed together. I'm drawn, in many ways, to I felt that that one, you know, really, kind of, 10 I didn't feel the elements were I also liked 1, and I felt like that 11 captured many of the elements of her in action. 12 covered those words, covered in different areas. 13 thought that was a compelling design as well for the 14 same reasons Harcourt pointed out. 15 It I And Dennis kind of talked me into 4 a 16 little bit as well. 17 design. 18 the work that she did, but again, she's not still or 19 unmoving. 20 looking toward her work. 21 22 I think it's a creative use of It still uses those broad terms to cover all She is actively, you know -- her work and Also, I wanted to give a little bit of a shout out to 2, which is a weird design. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 138 1 wouldn't -- I don't know if I'd vote for it, but it's 2 neat. 3 keys, and I just thought that was worth noting as 4 well. I thought it was a neat use of the typewriter 5 But again, I do shy away from 6, in 6 that, I think she deserves more -- a better 7 characterization of how much she was doing all the 8 time on behalf of so many people. 9 standing for a photo, she was always working and doing 10 She wasn't just good work. 11 Thank you. 12 DR. BROWN: 13 John. 14 MR. SAUNDERS: Thank you. Well, I was kind of 15 fascinated by the typewriter in number 7. 16 mechanical thing with the detail on the coin, but it 17 isn't my first choice, but I did like that. 18 I also like 1 and 4, which have been given shouts out 19 by several people. 20 be perfectly acceptable. 21 22 I like the And then They were ones that I said would Though, I have to conclude that 6 is the one we should go with, because I think it's a good www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 139 1 design. I think it's equal of the others, if not 2 better, and it's the family choice. 3 Peter made of switching "25 cents" or "a quarter," 4 whichever one you want to say, for the "E Pluribus 5 Unum," I think creates the extra space so we can put 6 the "Civil Rights Activist." The suggestion 7 I think it is appropriate to say "civil 8 rights" rather than just "activist," even if we had to 9 make smaller lettering or something to do it. But I 10 do think it's important to do that. So I'm in favor 11 of 6 with Peter's swap, subject to the Mint working it 12 out how they can do it. 13 well, and I'll give them good points and artistic 14 merit. But I do like 1 and 4 as 15 DR. BROWN: Thank you. 16 Darla. 17 MS. JACKSON: 18 And while I do love the pen as the This is Darla Jackson. 19 torch in number 4, I think when looking at it at the 20 scale that it's going to be made, I don't think that 21 that image reads as strongly as 6 does. 22 I think that 6 is a very striking www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 140 1 image. In it, she is strong and she is determined. I 2 think her hand resting and breaking that circle speaks 3 to that a bit as well. 4 outside of that. 5 life in all that she's done. 6 formulating the text so that it reads as the family 7 has discussed, "Journalist," "Suffragist," "Civil 8 Rights Activist." 9 that that would be ideal. 10 DR. BROWN: 11 Let's now go to, in fact, Art. 12 MR. BERNSTEIN: 13 The disadvantage of coming up later in I like the idea of it coming This idea of her being larger than And I think that If that can get worked out, I think Thank you, so much. This is Art Bernstein. 14 the batting order is I thought I knew exactly what I 15 wanted to do, and now I've heard a lot of great ideas. 16 But I still think I'd gravitate towards 6. 17 going to try to convince the family that 6 was the 18 better design than 6A, and now we're all in agreement 19 in that regard. 20 I was To Kellen's point, I thought the use of 21 the typewriter keys in some of the other designs was 22 clever, I just didn't go with the whole approach. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 141 1 I, while Donald wants to take off the wedding ring, I 2 would like to add the jewelry piece that is on her 3 neck in 6A. 4 elements to the portrait. 5 DR. BROWN: 6 Turn to Mike. 7 MR. MORAN: 8 This is Mike Moran. 9 I think it makes the -- it just adds Very good. Thank you, Dr. Brown. Guess I was the first to see what we needed to flip the inscriptions 10 from 6A and 6, and I also understand the family's 11 concern that if you do that, you minimize her name, 12 Ida B. Wells, by putting it on the rim. 13 overlook it. You tend to 14 It is -- here proposal as to how you 15 deal with putting "25 cents" in on the rim in a way 16 that spaces correctly. 17 "cents." 18 either you keep the "Ida B. Wells" in its prominence 19 and you give up "civil rights activist," or you have 20 to go with the inscriptions as they're shown in 6A, 21 and show Ida B. Wells in not as much prominence. 22 were the family, I would go with the inscriptions in You almost have to spell out I really feel it comes down to the fact that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 If I Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 142 1 6. That's just me talking. And that's it. 2 DR. BROWN: Thank you, so much. 3 Chris. 4 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 5 This is Chris Capozzola. All right. I'm very 6 excited about this quarter. I think this is about 50 7 years overdue. 8 and this, when it circulates, it will be an incredible 9 teaching moment for the American public. You know, this is an amazing person, And so we 10 need to make sure we get the lesson right. 11 think that, you know, conveying journalism, suffrage, 12 and civil rights is important. 13 And I I think, like Mike Moran, in those noun 14 forms might be the least worst option for solving 15 that, if we were to go with 6. 16 4, I do want to say I do worry that the torch in 4, as 17 Darla said, would be hard to read as a pen. 18 worry the torch is often associated with the United 19 Negro College Fund, which is an organization that 20 Wells was not super connected with, to my knowledge. 21 But we'd want to make sure that there isn't any 22 confusion if we were to do it that way. Although I appreciated www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I also Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 143 1 And then just back to Donald's point, I 2 don't think the wedding band needs to be removed. 3 Wedding bands were not regularly worn until the 1920s. 4 Married women often published under their maiden 5 names. 6 photograph that it is based on, and that includes the 7 feather, the broach, the ring, and everything and go 8 from there. 9 the right solution without too much clutter in that 10 What we should do is be faithful to the So I lean towards 6 and hope that we find area. 11 DR. BROWN: Thank you, so much. 12 This is Lawrence Brown, and I will not 13 repeat the comments from my colleagues, but I must 14 confess I was attracted to, in fact, design 1, for the 15 reasons that, actually, that Harcourt shared with us, 16 Dr. Fuller shared with us. 17 At the same time, I also agree that the 18 family's desires is really important, because, in 19 fact, that this is a way which is not going to be 20 someone that people don't know, that they give in to 21 someone they bring to life. 22 important. And to me that's so With respect to 6 versus 6A, I like 6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 144 1 because it makes it seem as if as she was doing in 2 life. 3 is not staying there, she's pushing it because of 4 things that are so -- she's so committed to. 5 that reason, I probably would go with 6, as well as 6 6A. She's pushing the barriers. So that outer rim So for But I give some credit to, in fact, design 1. 7 Are there any additional -- 8 John. 9 MR. SAUNDERS: I had a question. 10 Should have asked it earlier, because it's kind of 11 technical. 12 On 1, they have some writing that she's 13 written on a whole page here. 14 piece of writing that -- or was it just, kind of, 15 symbolic of that she wrote something. 16 was a particular speech or a particular letter, that 17 would make that design a little bit more interesting. 18 MS. STAFFORD: And was that an actual Because if it It references -- the 19 design description is that Ida B. Wells stands, pen 20 and paper in hand, as she prepares to write one of her 21 prolific articles at her desk. 22 representative, I believe, rather than specific. So it's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 145 1 MR. SAUNDERS: Ah. And did the artist 2 actually write out something and then copy it? 3 it just squiggly lines. 4 5 MS. STAFFORD: I don't know, Michelle or Don [sic], did you have anything to add to that? 8 9 My understanding is it's representative. 6 7 Or is MR. DUSTER: This is Daniel Duster. I am honored that everybody's so thorough in reviewing 10 the quarter. 11 three to four hours between all the designs, and I 12 didn't notice that she was wearing a wedding ring in 13 one and not in another, or the broach. 14 appreciate your attention to detail. 15 for 6, so happy that that seems to be what most people 16 are leaning towards. 17 Again, I looked at probably a total of MS. DUSTER: Yeah. So I just I am an advocate I'll share my 18 comment about 1 and 4, as far as why that was not my 19 personal first choice. 20 second choice. 21 reaction was that -- the march that took place in 22 Charlottesville with the tiki torches. I would say 4 was probably my But when I looked at 4, my visceral www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And, Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 146 1 obviously, that's well after Ida's time, but just for 2 me as an emotional response to it, it kind of -- that 3 was the emotion that it elicited for me, which I'm 4 sure was not the intent, you know, but I just, you 5 know, thought I would share that. 6 You know, sort of the idea of 7 torches -- considering the -- well, what's happened in 8 our time, but then also, kind of, the violence that 9 was happening during Ida's time with people's houses 10 being burned and people being, you know, just -- if 11 you know what happened with Frazier Baker, that image 12 is just a little scary. 13 there or some other kind of design, because I think 14 the portrait of Ida is beautiful. 15 the torch itself that's kind of -- has so many 16 different meanings that it might be misinterpreted. 17 Maybe if the torch weren't Infor, it's just And then on 1, Daniel and I decided 18 that she looked very young in that image, and that is 19 not the age that she was when she was involved in the 20 suffrage movement or some of the other activities that 21 she was involved in. 22 us, kind of, is indicative of her super early in her That really -- that image, to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 147 1 career, so then it doesn't really capture the other 2 activities that she was involved in. 3 portrait of Ida, which I'm sure you all have seen a 4 million times; that is the most recognizable image of 5 her, and that was what 6 was, sort of, based on, so 6 that when people looked at the quarter, and actually 7 the one on -- the image on 4, she would be easily 8 recognized from those two images more so than the one 9 on number 1. Also, there's a She's just at such a young -- 10 DR. BROWN: 11 Are there any other questions or 12 Thank you, so much. comments? 13 Dennis. 14 MR. TUCKER: Dr. Brown, this is Dennis 15 Tucker, and I'll keep this brief. 16 respond to some of the comments I heard about design 4 17 and the lamp or the torch. 18 thoughts before Ms. Duster just spoke. 19 your thoughts on -- along those lines. 20 I just wanted to I formulated these I appreciate But I wanted to point out that, even if 21 people look at that lamp and only think of it as the 22 lamp of knowledge, or only as liberty enlightening the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 148 1 world or what have you, there's nothing lost in that 2 interpretation. 3 represented. 4 that rewards the viewer who makes a closer inspection. 5 So, you know, you can look at it and get a great 6 message, but then you can look a little bit closer and 7 get a little bit more symbolism and a little bit more 8 for your money, if you will, so. 9 It's a very strong symbol of what she My point was, this was the one design DR. BROWN: Most appreciated. 10 Any other final comments or questions? 11 DR. FULLER: 12 Yes, Dr. Brown. I'll make this brief. 13 This is Dr. Fuller. 14 I do think that the word "activist," as 15 Ms. Duster said, I do think it's very important to 16 have that right after "civil rights." 17 DR. BROWN: 18 Anything from the Mint? 19 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. Thank you, so much. I spoke with Mike, and 20 he confirmed that Peter's suggestion about removing "E 21 Pluribus Unum," placing it where "quarter dollar" now 22 is, and using that space to use "25 cents." www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Of Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 149 1 course, there'd be some reconfiguration for spacing 2 and all of that, but that does look -- 3 4 MR. COSTELLO: It's a viable solution. We can add "activist" right after "civil rights." 5 MS. STAFFORD: And that would allow for 6 the Duster's preferred inscriptions of "journalist," 7 "suffragist," "civil rights activist." 8 9 DR. BROWN: Anything further from Michelle or Daniel Duster? 10 Hearing none -- 11 MR. DUSTER: 12 No. I'm complete. Thank you. 13 DR. BROWN: Thank you. 14 Hearing none, the committee will now 15 score the candidate designs for the 2025 Ida B. Wells 16 quarter. 17 Again, each of you have your score 18 sheets. Please, provide them to Greg Weinman as soon 19 as you can. 20 21 22 We'll take a brief five-minute break. MS. WARREN: It's 2:36, so we'll be back at 2:41. (Off the record.) www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 150 1 2 MS. WARREN: back at 2:42. 3 4 DR. BROWN: This is Lawrence Brown. We are back. 5 6 And it is now returning I recognize Greg Weinman, counselor to the CCAC, to present the results of our scoring. 7 MR. WEINMAN: Design number 1 received 8 10 out of 33. Design number 2 received three. 9 number 2B received three points. Design Design 3 received 10 two points. Design 4 received 16 points. Design 5 11 received one. 12 the high-scoring design. 13 points, and design 7 received three points. 14 again, design 6 is the high-scoring design with 26 out 15 of 33 points. Design 6 received 26 points, making it Design 6A received 19 16 DR. BROWN: 17 We have Art. 18 MR. BERNSTEIN: So once Are there any motions? This is Arthur 19 Bernstein. I move that we recommend to the secretary 20 design 6, with changes to the lettering, as has been 21 described. 22 jewelry. And with the addition of the necklace www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 151 1 Is there a second? 2 MR. SAUNDERS: 3 DR. BROWN: 4 THE REPORTER: 5 DR. BROWN: 6 I second. Okay. John seconds. John second? John second. John Saunders, second. 7 Any discussion on the motion? 8 Hearing none, all those in favor, 9 "aye." 10 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: Aye. 11 DR. BROWN: 12 Motion carries. 13 Since all discussion has concluded, Opposed, "nay." 14 then I'd like to take this time to thank Ms. Michelle 15 Duster and Mr. Daniel Duster for attending and 16 providing invaluable contributions to this discussion. 17 We really appreciate your participation in this 18 process. 19 get as far as we have. 20 appreciate it, and we hope that you will be as proud 21 as we will be when we see this fantastic quarter. 22 Thank you, so much. Without this, we would not have been able to Thank you, so much. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 We Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 152 1 MS. DUSTER: Thank you for having us. 2 DR. BROWN: 3 MR. DUSTER: 4 DR. BROWN: 5 We will now move to review the reverse 6 candidate designs for the 2025 American Women Quarter 7 honoring Juliette Gordon Low. We will now move -Thank you. Thank you. 8 Ms. Stafford. 9 MS. STAFFORD: 10 Take care, now. Thank you. Juliette Magill Kinzie Gordon was born 11 in Savannah, Georgia, on October 31, 1860, and was 12 given a nickname that followed her throughout her 13 life: 14 before marrying William Mackay Low and moving to 15 England. 16 her husband died unexpectedly in 1905 amid divorce 17 proceedings. 18 find a new direction for her life. 19 "Daisy." She was educated at boarding schools Unfortunately, the marriage dissolved, and Widowed and childless, Low needed to In 1911, while in Europe, Low met 20 Robert Baden-Powell, the founder of the Boy Scouts. 21 His sister, Agnes, established Girl Guides in the 22 United Kingdom as a sister organization to the Boy www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 153 1 Scouts. Taken with the ideals of Girl Guiding, Low 2 wanted to start a similar organization in the U.S. 3 She omitted to building a girl-led movement. 4 12, 1912, Low founded the Girl Scouts Organization in 5 Savannah, Georgia. 6 On March She envisioned an organization that was 7 accessible to all girls, regardless of differences, 8 and a place where girls could develop leadership and 9 advocacy skills to better their lives, as well as 10 nurture their strengths and passions. 11 life to promoting and growing the Girl Scouts to the 12 international organization it is today, with nearly 2 13 million adult and girl members worldwide. 14 She devoted her Low personally embodied many of the 15 traits found throughout Girl Scouts. For example, 16 service was a cornerstone of Juliette Gordon Low's 17 life, and is an important part of the Girl Scout 18 experience. 19 joined her mother in nursing wounded soldiers in Camp 20 Miami, which was commanded by her father. 21 World War I, she urged the Girl Scouts to support 22 soldiers, soldiers' families, and war victims During the Spanish American War, Low www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 During Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 154 1 overseas. She founded a movement that prepared girls 2 for leadership eight years before women gained the 3 right to vote in the United States, and emphasized 4 civic responsibility, motivating girls to make their 5 communities better places through service. 6 All candidate designs include a 7 likeness of Juliette Gordon Low in her Girl Scout 8 uniform, along with the required inscriptions "United 9 States of America" and "E Pluribus Unum," the common 10 inscription "Juliette Gordon Low," and the 11 denomination. 12 We are so pleased to have with us 13 Shannon Browning-Mullis, the executive director of the 14 Juliette Gordon Low Birthplace. 15 16 Shannon, would you like to say a few words to our committee? 17 MS. BROWNING-MULLIS: I would just say 18 thank you so much for choosing Juliette Gordon Low for 19 this honor. 20 there are -- 21 22 As you mentioned in your introduction, MS. WARREN: I'm sorry. Jennifer. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 This is Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 155 1 The court reporter's signaling that he 2 can't hear you. 3 up, that would be great. 4 So if you want to stand up and speak Sorry. MS. BROWNING-MULLIS: Hello. We just 5 think Juliette Gordon Low is so important to American 6 history, and the movement she founded changed the 7 trajectory of women and girls in this country. 8 it's affected millions of women and girls, and almost 9 2 million that are alive in American troops right now 10 today. 11 girls that she's being honored, so we really 12 appreciate it. So So we think it sends an amazing message to the 13 MS. STAFFORD: All right. Moving onto 14 the candidate designs. 15 at the designs that have been identified as 16 preferences, reading their design descriptions. 17 Should there be a design for which you'd like me to 18 read out the description, please let me know. 19 Again, I will stop and pause This is design 1. It depicts Juliette 20 Gordon Low with three girl scouts, presenting the Girl 21 Scout sign. 22 representing the 1910s, 1940s, and 1960s. The girls are dressed in uniforms www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Low stands Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 156 1 behind them, symbolizing the continuity and growth of 2 the organization she founded, and her dedication to 3 helping girls build leadership skills, find their 4 voice, and explore diverse activities. 5 the first of two preferences for the liaison. 6 This design is We also have candidate design 2, 3, 3A, 7 4, 4A, 5, 6, 7. This design depicts Juliette Gordon 8 Low next to the original Girl Scout Trefoil. 9 outer rim is the additional inscription "Founder of on the 10 the Girl Scouts of the," which is paired with the 11 required inscription, "United States of America." 12 This design is the second of two preferences for the 13 liaison, and the recommendation by the U.S. Commission 14 of Fine Arts. 15 And finally, we have candidate design 8 16 for your consideration. 17 candidate designs. And that concludes the 18 DR. BROWN: Thank you, so much. 19 Are there any technical or legal 20 questions from the committee? 21 DR. VAN ALFEN: 22 This is Peter van Alfen. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 157 1 I'm going to jump ahead of Art here and 2 ask a question about the jewelry. 3 fish necklace that she is wearing, what is the 4 significance of that? 5 MS. BROWNING-MULLIS: In number 7, the So that's the 6 silverfish. 7 Guiding of the UK and only three Americans ever 8 received it. 9 10 DR. BROWN: You may want to repeat that a little for our court reporter. 11 12 It's the highest award given by Girl MS. BROWNING-MULLIS: Sure. Volume is not -- 13 MS. STAFFORD: 14 can repeat it if you'd like. Would you like me -- I 15 MS. BROWNING-MULLIS: 16 MS. STAFFORD: Yeah. Please. So in design 7 around 17 her neck, she is wearing the silverfish award. 18 the highest honor given by the Girl Guides of the 19 United Kingdom, and only three Americans have been the 20 recipient of that since its inception. 21 DR. BROWN: 22 MR. TUCKER: It is Dennis. Thank you, Dr. Brown. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 158 1 This is Dennis Tucker. 2 Our liaison's expressed preference for 3 designs 1 and 7. 4 or are those equal? 5 6 Was there a ranking between those, MS. STAFFORD: So our liaison appreciates 7 a little better than 1. Neck and neck. 7 MR. TUCKER: 8 And I had one other question. 9 10 today? MS. BROWNING-MULLIS: 15 16 17 18 So almost 2 million adult and girl members. 13 14 I didn't catch, how many children are active in girl scouting 11 12 Thank you. MR. TUCKER: Okay, 2 million. thank you. MS. BROWNING-MULLIS: And I can't tell you exactly how that works out. MS. STAFFORD: Yeah. Two million adult women and girls. 19 MR. TUCKER: Okay. Thanks. 20 DR. BROWN: 21 DR. FULLER: 22 This is Harcourt Fuller. Any other questions? Yes, Dr. Brown. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 159 1 2 Can we go back to 1, please? Thank you. 3 So I see that there are three girls 4 there, two of whom have hats on, and the young lady at 5 front and center does not have a hat on. 6 know, what's the reason for that? 7 I wanted to Thank you. MS. BROWNING-MULLIS: It reflects the 8 uniform of the particular date that each of those 9 girls depicts. 10 have a hat. 11 12 So the uniform at that time did not MS. STAFFORD: So just to repeat that for folks who may not have been able to hear. 13 All of the uniforms, including the hats 14 if there are any, reflect the uniform at that given 15 time for the specific era that the young girls are 16 representing. 17 representing, it did not have a hat for the uniform. 18 19 So in that case, the era that she is DR. FULLER: Thank you very much. Appreciate it. 20 DR. BROWN: Thank you. 21 Donald. 22 MR. SCARINCI: Could I ask the liaison, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 160 1 what was the thinking about design 3, 3A? 2 any feeling for those designs? 3 like those? 4 Was there Any reason you didn't MS. BROWNING-MULLIS: I mean, they 5 didn't particularly -- so I would say, for me 6 personally, we have a portrait of Juliette that we 7 call "the founder's portrait," which she commissioned 8 and chose all the details for that really portrayed 9 her as the woman that she wanted to be seen as. And 10 number 7 really closely depicts that vision of her, I 11 think, which is what really draws me to that. 12 as it having some really specific details of the 13 uniform being represented quite well, which I think is 14 important. 15 elements, necessarily. 16 the other two. 17 18 As well So number 3 doesn't have any offensive It just wasn't as appealing as MR. SCARINCI: And 5 as well for the same reason? 19 MS. BROWNING-MULLIS: So for 5 and 6, 20 and 4 actually, I would say the likeness is not -- 21 doesn't look quite like Juliette. 22 was portrayed in those as a little bit. And I think that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I say Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 161 1 affectionately, she was not a soft woman, and I think 2 it portrays her as a little softer than what she was. 3 MR. SCARINCI: 4 DR. BROWN: 5 Thank you. Any other questions or comments? 6 DR. FULLER: 7 Harcourt Fuller, if I may. 8 DR. BROWN: 9 DR. FULLER: Mr. Chair, this is Please. Some of the audio is 10 difficult to hear. I'm remote, so I know that. So I 11 just want to say that some of the information might 12 have to be repeated. 13 And thanks, April, for doing that. 14 But I just wanted to point that out. 15 Thank you. 16 DR. BROWN: Thank you, very much. 17 Any other questions or comments? 18 Hearing none, then let us begin our 19 consideration. Again, I'd like to remind everyone to 20 keep your comments to five minutes or less. 21 Additionally, if there are any questions, let's hold 22 those until at the end of this process. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 162 1 For the benefit of the court reporter 2 and those calling in, I ask that you state your name 3 before you begin speaking. 4 So let's begin with Kellen. 5 MR. HOARD: 6 For me, part of what's exciting about Thank you. 7 doing these designs is that we're able to orient these 8 women within their lasting impact, and how they 9 continue to impact the world today. I think Juliette 10 Gordon Low, more than most, continues to have her 11 legacy acted upon. 12 And so for me, when I'm looking at the 13 designs, I'm thinking, "How do we show that continuing 14 impact?" 15 think 1 is, by far, not only the best design, but 16 really, again, orients and contextualizes that impact 17 that she continues to have. And 1 just blows it out of the water. 18 I I love how it -- I actually didn't 19 realize until now that it was tracing those uniforms 20 through time. 21 that progression of girls. 22 within her legacy, which is these girls and the impact I think it does it even better showing And I think it orients her www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 163 1 that they will continue to pass on in the world as 2 well. And so I really am taken by that image. 3 I think it's clean. I think it shows 4 it quite well who she is, what she cared about, and I 5 just -- I would wholeheartedly endorse 1. 6 some other ones I was going to talk about, but the 7 more I think about it the more I love 1, so. 8 about it for me. 9 There were That's Thank you. DR. BROWN: Thank you, so much. 10 Let's turn to Dr. Fuller. 11 DR. FULLER: 12 I definitely will support number 1. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I 13 think that it, you know, shows her leadership of these 14 girls. 15 it's the only design that shows girls as well. 16 I'll support this one because it shows the honoree as 17 well as the girls. And frankly, if my memory serves me right, 18 And so And on a personal note, you know, I 19 live in Atlanta. So that's great to see a Georgian 20 being honored. 21 Scout. 22 the country and all over the world. And my eldest daughter is a Girl So I think this is great for girls all over Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 164 1 DR. BROWN: Thank you, so much. 2 Let's turn to Dennis. 3 MR. TUCKER: 4 This is Dennis Tucker. 5 And I had the same feeling. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think 6 number 1 stands out because it's the only design that 7 actually shows girl scouts. 8 has my strong support. 9 And for that reason, it I have a 7-year-old daughter, and 10 before you can be something you have to see something. 11 So if you see girls in scouting, then that can inspire 12 you to join yourself and get involved. 13 millions of people who are involved in scouting today, 14 I'm sure many of the adults were girl scouts when they 15 were younger, so we'll have millions of Americans, and 16 millions more in their families and neighborhoods who 17 could see themselves and their friends and family in 18 this coin. So I love number 1. And of the Thank you. 19 DR. BROWN: 20 Let's turn now to Darla. 21 This is Darla Jackson, and as a former 22 Thank you, so much. Girl Scout and the mother of also someone who is a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 165 1 Girl Scout, I do think that that inclusion of the 2 girls on the coin -- at first, that wasn't my original 3 choice, but hearing everyone talk about it, I really 4 do think it is very important. 5 And I, like Kellen said, I love the 6 aspect of representing this organization through time. 7 And so, you know, when these come out and people hear 8 about that, I think that will be really wonderful to 9 learn a bit about. And I also want to talk about, I 10 think, that the resolution of the bottom of the 11 figures is a really elegant one. 12 I think how "E Pluribus Unum" fits 13 within them and then it drops down just a bit, I 14 thought that that was a really nice encapsulation of a 15 very complicated area, and just tidied it up really 16 nice while leaving enough open space around it. 17 feel like the text feels very suited to the design as 18 well. So my vote is for number 1. 19 DR. BROWN: 20 Let's now turn to Art. 21 MR. BERNSTEIN: 22 And I Outstanding. This is Arthur Bernstein, and now I'm wishing I'd gone earlier in the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 166 1 batting order once again, because I prefer design 7 2 and not design 1. 3 I should point out, I'm a Scout leader 4 myself, recipient of the silver beaver. 5 visited the home of Juliette Gordon Low, the home and 6 the museum, several times. 7 we're honoring her. 8 9 And I have And I'm thrilled that I find the depiction of her in design 1, frankly, to be a bit masculine. I didn't like the 10 appearance of her on the coin. 11 in a better way. 12 medal. 13 giving us a longer length body, we get to see that, 14 the jewelry, the medals. 15 I think 7 portrays her It does also include the silver fish It shows the awards that she has won. By It's also the design that I gather the 16 CFA preferred and it -- I prefer design 7. 17 importantly, design 7 also includes -- Oh, 18 Is it pronounced "treefoil," "trefoil"? 19 MS. STAFFORD: 20 MR. BERNSTEIN: Trefoil. Trefoil. I think 21 it's -- to me, that's a very important symbol. 22 one that we all recognize, and I like that it appears www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It's Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 167 1 on design 7. 2 DR. BROWN: Thank you, so much. 3 Let's turn to Mike. 4 MR. MORAN: 5 I've listened to this discussion. Thank you, Dr. Brown. I 6 like 1, but I do have reservations about number 1, 7 because I really think that by the time you reduce it 8 to a quarter, the little girls are going to get lost 9 in the design. 10 If it were a medal, it would probably be my first choice. 11 I'll give it points. But I also want to talk about design 4. 12 It's a lot in there. 13 Juliette Gordon Low is not what you'd like, but the 14 design itself says a lot and still keeps a very clean 15 feel. 16 quarter, and the age marks will not be recognizable on 17 a quarter. 18 I understand that the image of It's really -- would be very recognizable on a And then we get down to number 7, and I 19 prefer it to number 1. I think there's plenty of 20 detail there without it getting too cluttered. 21 think it would show reasonably well on a coin, and I 22 give it support as well. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 168 1 Thank you, Dr. Brown. 2 DR. BROWN: 3 Let's turn to Donald. 4 MR. SCARINCI: Thank you, so much. I support what Art is 5 saying, by instinct he's saying it. And, you know, I 6 think -- first of all, here's my problem with number 7 1. 8 Gordon Low. 9 Right? This is not a -- this is a design about Juliette This is not about the Girl Scouts. That's her achievement, and if it were a 10 commemorative program, I'd feel very differently. 11 Right? 12 But this is about the Women's Quarter Program. And I think the design here is what 13 Mike suggests, is -- I think this is touching the far 14 limits of stuff in the planchet of a quarter design. 15 If you look at the big, you know, I have it printed 16 out. 17 the -- at what it looks like as a coin, you know, 18 it's -- you know, she is diluted in this. 19 of four images on this very small quarter palette. 20 I just don't think it's going to coin effectively and 21 send a message that this is about Juliette Gordon Low. 22 This is about the Girl Scouts, right. You know, and if you look at the printhead at www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 She's one So Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 169 1 Whereas 7 really focuses on her. And 2 the image right below Juliette Gordon Low is iconic. 3 It's what everybody knows as, you know, this is -- so 4 she created this. 5 face, very clear way. 6 it's a cleaner design. 7 message about her, undiluted with the confusion of 8 these kids, and -- you know, that you can't see; that 9 you're not going to be able to see. 10 It's all there in a very in-yourSo I think, you know, I think I think it delivers the And so I really think 7, you know -- I 11 really think 7 far surpasses 1. In fact, but for the 12 fact that the liaison wasn't sure between 1 and 7, I 13 wouldn't even be talking about 1. 14 DR. BROWN: 15 Let's turn to Peter. 16 DR. VAN ALFEN: 17 Thank you, so much. Dr. Brown, thank you very much. 18 This is Peter van Alfen. 19 I just want to start by thanking 20 Ms. Mullis for being here today and offering some 21 additional comments and insight. 22 with Mike and Donald about concerns about what number And I have to agree www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 170 1 1 would look like at scale, and how Juliette Gordon 2 Low could be lost -- the -- at least visually. 3 The other problem that I really have 4 with number 1 is that there is no indication of why 5 she is on this coin to begin with. 6 the age of cell phone google searches, without an 7 inscription saying "Founder of the Girl Scouts," it is 8 not entirely clear why it is that she is here. 9 Whereas, of course, in number 7, that is stated. You know, even in And 10 I think that that is important for the public to have 11 that sort of statement on the coin, to know why the 12 woman portrayed on the coin is there. 13 And I also find number 7 really to be 14 quite an iconic portrait as well. I think it will 15 work well at quarter-size scale, and happy to support 16 that design. 17 Thank you. 18 DR. BROWN: 19 John. 20 MR. SAUNDERS: 21 John Saunders here. 22 I would like to agree with what Peter Thank you, so much. Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 171 1 just said. 2 went through these pictures was some of them didn't 3 say "Founder of Girl Scouts," and I think it's 4 essential that whatever we do say, that there -- also 5 on 1, I agree it's a little bit crowded. 6 something about the face that didn't appeal to me. 7 The face on 1. 8 masculine. 9 just -- it wasn't really appealing to me. 10 I think it's -- first thing I saw when I There's just Someone said it made her look more I'm not sure if that's it, but it's I'm going to shout out for one that 11 nobody else has mentioned. 12 has action. 13 mean, Girl Scouting is a lot more than just the 14 camping and the outdoors part of it, but that's the 15 one thing that comes to mind about scouting at first. 16 And you see, this is about scouting. 17 I like 2 an awful lot. It You know, you think about Girl Scouts. I You see a woman climbing the mountain 18 up there at the top, and it shows her at the apex. 19 like the action, I like the design of that. 20 Artistically, that appeals to me the most. 21 picked up one of these quarters, that quarter says 22 "scouting" to me as soon as I pick it up. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 If I So I'm I Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 172 1 strongly in favor of that. 2 Six is okay. I mean, it's -- you know, 3 it's got a lot of what 7 has on it. 4 sure where the sunflower comes into the -- 5 MR. BERNSTEIN: 6 MR. SAUNDERS: 7 I'm not quite It's a daisy. Daisy. I guess that's a Girl Scout symbol? 8 MR. TUCKER: Her nickname. 9 MR. SAUNDERS: Ah. Okay. I heard you 10 say her nickname, and I didn't understand what it was 11 earlier. 12 Seven is fine too, but I really do like 13 the action and the image that 2 projects. 14 going to be my recommendation. 15 DR. BROWN: 16 April. 17 MS. STAFFORD: 18 share with the committee. So that's Thank you. A couple of points to On design 2 -- 19 -- thank you for raising this -- 20 -- when this was reviewed by our 21 Smithsonian scholars and historians, they flagged this 22 and wondered if this slightly overstated her www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 173 1 ruggedness and outdoor activities, and it turns out 2 that our liaison agreed with that. 3 to keep in mind as it moves forward. 4 So just something And while originally when we called for 5 preferences, we had both 1 and 7 flagged as equally 6 weighted preferences, I'd just like to make sure 7 everyone heard, when Dennis inquired, our liaison 8 indicated a preference for 7 over 1. 9 necessarily equal, as originally thought. 10 So it's not So thank you. 11 Thank you, Chairman. 12 DR. BROWN: 13 Chris. 14 DR. CAPOZZOLA: Thank you. I came to this with a 15 real dilemma. 16 a coin about Low, not the Girl Scouts. 17 originally being strenuously opposed to 1 on those 18 grounds. 19 I think, as Donald articulated, this is And I came in But I've softened my views. I think it's complicated in this case, 20 because Low is known to history for one thing: 21 founding the Girl Scouts. 22 like Ida B. Wells did 300,000 things in her life. Right? Whereas someone www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 You Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 174 1 know, so that puts us in a bit of a bind. 2 But I do feel that 7, you know, all 3 that said, is going to be the one that accomplishes 4 that by including the phrase "Founder of the Girl 5 Scouts of the United States of America." 6 the mixing of uppercase and lowercase letters in the 7 rim around 7, but I'm not strenuously opposed to that 8 either. 9 10 DR. BROWN: I don't love Thank you, so much. I really appreciate this. 11 And for a while, I must confess that, 12 Art, I had a string of people who in fact had 13 daughters. 14 admittedly. 15 who, in fact, are phenomenal and always, in fact, 16 sometimes, give me a lot of challenges about what I 17 should do and what I should not do. 18 So I was, in fact, hoping to sway people, Especially since I have two goddaughters But I do agree with my colleagues, this 19 is actually a quarter about the woman as opposed to 20 the phenomenal millions of people who actually help to 21 influence. 22 towards 7 as well. So in that sense, I probably would lean www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 175 1 With respect to the issue about the 2 inscriptions, I must agree with Chris that that seemed 3 a bit much, to in fact have "Founder of the Girl 4 Scouts of the United States of America." 5 if we were trying to stretch it to, in fact, have a 6 complete sentence instead of, in fact, what we 7 typically would do. 8 major challenge with respect to my vote. 9 10 It seemed as But I don't find that to be a Are there any other questions or comments from any of the members? 11 DR. FULLER: 12 DR. BROWN: 13 DR. FULLER: 14 And please allow me, I do have a couple 15 16 Mr. Chairman, if I may. Please, sir. This is Harcourt Fuller. of comments and -- if I may. You know, one of the great things about 17 being on the CCAC is that you can start out one way, 18 supporting one design, and then based on the comments 19 of your colleagues and the stakeholders and et cetera, 20 you might change. 21 Can we go to 1, please? 22 So I am having mixed feelings about 1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Thank you. Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 176 1 now, having heard the previous comments, although I 2 still support it. 3 known for founding the Girl Scouts, even though she is 4 the honoree, I feel strongly that the Girl Scouts 5 should be represented. 6 young girl picks up that coin, if we only have the 7 honoree, it may not speak to them as much as if they 8 see themselves on the coin. 9 was her major service. I do think that because Low was I just feel that if -- when a And so, you know, this 10 So, you know, how do you honor someone? 11 You know, you can honor someone by focusing on them as 12 an individual, or you can honor someone by focusing on 13 their service and the thing or things for which they 14 were well known. 15 made for either. 16 I think there's an argument to be You know, I think more about the public 17 and how they might see this, and I just feel that 18 young girls need to see themselves on the coin. 19 said, I think that, you know, the issue sometimes with 20 representation -- and I'm speaking now about, let's 21 just say, if I may, ethnic representation -- I feel 22 like if you include one and not the others, then some www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 That Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 177 1 people might feel left out. 2 American Women's Quarter Program, we have represented 3 American women of all backgrounds. 4 I know the AWQ, the And what I'm looking at here, I feel 5 like I'm seeing three young girls of particular ethnic 6 groups. 7 generally recognized, right, there are, right, five 8 that we, I would say, normally recognize: 9 American, White American, African American, Hispanic And of course the ones that have been 10 American, Asian American. 11 looking at, two left out. 12 Native I see, from what I'm Of course, I'm not arguing that we 13 include five, because that would be too crowded, and I 14 understand that colleagues are already saying that 15 having four people on the coin is already crowded. 16 I'm not arguing to put more, but I do want to say that 17 if we end up going with 1, my concern is that a young 18 girl from a particular background who doesn't see 19 herself on the coin might feel left out. 20 because of those reasons, I'm not sure how I will 21 vote, but ultimately I will support either 1 or 7. 22 Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And so, So Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 178 1 DR. BROWN: Thank you, very much. 2 Let's go to John. 3 MR. SAUNDERS: First comment, I intend 4 to have a bunch of these quarters on hand to buy my 5 cookies with the next time they come out. 6 And secondly, I'd like to follow up on 7 what you said, Dr. Brown. I believe the second, and I 8 know we're not trying to change too many designs and 9 stuff like that, the second "of the" -- in the legend, 10 to me is negative. I mean, it's kind of like using -- 11 it's a United States of America coin, so we say it's 12 United States of America on it, but we've included it 13 in the thing about the Girl Scouts, and I don't think 14 it's needed. I think if you take out that second "of 15 the," it would be a much stronger design, a much 16 better design. 17 DR. BROWN: 18 Kellen. 19 MR. HOARD: 20 This is Kellen Hoard. 21 I just wanted to briefly share some 22 Understood. Yeah. concerns I had about design 7, which is why I prefer www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 179 1 design 1. Largely around the fact that this series of 2 American Women's Quarters has been a largely quite 3 dynamic series of designs, and I just don't find this 4 design to be that compelling or dynamic. 5 Having spoken to a lot of young people, 6 especially a lot of young people who have gone through 7 Girl Scouts recently, seeing basically a waist-up 8 picture of a woman on a quarter is not compelling to 9 them or engaging with them, especially if we're trying 10 to reach them in a relatable way. 11 kind of isolated, siloed historical figure to me. 12 we label her, but it's more of a matter of kind of 13 telling rather than showing who she is. 14 She comes across as And I also worry that the design's a little 15 too crowded for my preference. I think the font of 16 her name is maybe something to be revised or looked 17 at. 18 design would be engaging to a large majority of the 19 public who sees her as another, you know, isolated 20 historical figure on a coin rather than someone whose 21 legacy continues to have relevance today and is the 22 reason that we're featuring her on this coin. But most importantly, I just don't feel like this www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 180 1 I think that sharing the girls, who 2 will maybe be the subject of future American women 3 quarter series, is an important thing to share, 4 because that has been what she is known for; the 5 impact continues to have. And that's the reason we're 6 featuring her here today. Because there were a lot 7 of, you know, impactful historical women who defined 8 their time period, but she is someone whose had 9 lasting legacy, and we see that clearly without having 10 to explicitly write it out. 11 the young girls. 12 We can see that through So I worry that 7 doesn't accurately 13 convey to the public, and especially the younger 14 public, why she's someone to care about. 15 appreciate, you know, that she founded this. 16 care today? 17 has, and that's represented well under 1 and not so 18 well under 7. Why do I Because of the continuing legacy that she 19 Thank you. 20 DR. BROWN: 21 MR. TUCKER: 22 I Dennis. Dr. Brown, this is Dennis Tucker. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 181 1 I want to address something that I 2 sense is a misunderstanding among some of my 3 colleagues about the focus of this coin program, and 4 it's something that April spoke about earlier. 5 And I'll quote from the legislation. 6 "The reverse designs of this program shall be 7 emblematic of the accomplishments and contributions of 8 one prominent woman." 9 trying to depict their physicality and just put a So we're not talking about 10 portrait of them on there. 11 for us to focus on the Girl Scouts of America, because 12 that is emblematic of her accomplishments and 13 contributions. 14 It's perfectly acceptable So I hope we can put that to rest; that 15 idea that, you know, somehow, focusing on the Girl 16 Scouts is inappropriate for this particular coin. 17 also want to quickly follow up on some of the 18 comments. 19 I Art, you talked about the importance of 20 the Trefoil symbolism. That symbolizes honor God and 21 country, help others, and live by the Scout law. 22 is summed up in the three finger salute, which we see www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 That Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 182 1 in number 1. I'm speaking to defend number 1. 2 should have prefaced that. 3 I Number 1 is rich in all sorts of Girl 4 Scout symbolism. 5 uniforms, it's got the salutes, and all of this 6 spelled out in symbolism, not in words, "Girl Scouts 7 of America." 8 that we don't have the words "Girl Scouts of America" 9 in block letters in number 1. 10 quite nicely. 11 up -- It's got the Trefoil, it's got the So I'm not as concerned about the fact 12 I think it's symbolized I think those comments kind of sum Donald, you had talked about how the 13 program should be about the woman herself and not her 14 accomplishments. 15 says -- is counter to that. 16 I think the legislation kind of And Peter, you had talked about there 17 being no clear statement of the Girl Scouts in 01, but 18 I think that 1 has the symbolism that accomplishes 19 that. 20 Also, some of us are talking about the 21 challenges of the design in 1 being too small for the 22 quarter dollar. And an example I always give is the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 183 1 American Legion five dollar gold piece commemorative. 2 If you study that coin, you will see microscopically 3 intricate detail, down to the rivets in the shield of 4 the American Legion emblem. 5 putting huge amounts of detail into medals, 6 commemorative coins, and I think circulating coins. 7 So the Mint is capable of So I think that we will have a good 8 representation of these girls in number 1. 9 though it's kind of a one-inch canvas, it's really not 10 as small as you might think. 11 number 1. 12 girls -- 13 14 I think it's the strongest -- it shows on. I'll end there, and I thank you for your time. 17 18 So I'm advocating for Mike, I apologize for continuing on and 15 16 Even DR. BROWN: Thank you, so much. Really appreciate that. 19 My colleagues, we all have had an 20 opportunity within our five minutes to give our point 21 of view. 22 and mindful of the hour. I think that we need to be mindful of that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 184 1 2 So I'll ask, Mike, do you have any further comments from the Mint? 3 MR. COSTELLO: 4 DR. BROWN: No further comments. I'd like to ask, 5 Ms. Mullis, if you have any comments based on what 6 you've heard so far, prior to us voting. 7 She shakes her head, a no. 8 So on that basis, the committee will 9 now score the reverse candidate designs of the 2025 10 Juliette Gordon Low Quarter. 11 Again, each of you have your score 12 sheets. Please pass them to Mr. Greg Weinman. 13 you, so much. 14 15 MS. WARREN: Are we in recess until five minutes, then? 16 DR. BROWN: 17 MS. WARREN: 18 Thank Five minutes. It's 3:20, we'll recess until 3:25. 19 (Off the record.) 20 MS. WARREN: 21 Dr. Brown. 22 DR. BROWN: It is 3:25. We are back. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 185 1 2 I recognize Greg Weinman, who will present the results of the scoring. 3 MR. WEINMAN: Reverse number 1 received 4 20 out of a possible 33 points. Reverse 2 received 5 nine. Reverse 3A received 6 two. Reverse 4 received seven. 7 two. Design 5 received three. 8 three. 9 Design 8 received four. Reverse 3 received four. Design 4A received Design 6 received Design 7 received also 20 out of 33 points. So we have a tie. 10 points each for design 1 and design 7. 11 as you will. 12 13 DR. BROWN: gentlemen. 14 Twenty Do with that So colleagues -- ladies and Your attention, please. So it is possible that we can recommend 15 to the secretary both candidate designs, unless you 16 have a persuasive argument that you can make very 17 succinctly and is, in fact, going to have an effective 18 result that will have something close to a significant 19 majority. 20 21 22 DR. FULLER: Mr. Speaker -- Mr. Chair, I'm sorry. DR. BROWN: Yes, sir. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Go ahead. Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 186 1 DR. FULLER: This is Harcourt Fuller. 2 I agree with Dennis based on him 3 reminding us of what the statute says. 4 strongly recommend that we honor her based on her 5 service, which is in founding the Girl Scouts, and 6 with the representation of the girls. 7 8 9 10 11 12 DR. BROWN: Thank you. I would Thank you. I'm not sure how that -- I appreciate that, Dr. Fuller. I'm not sure how that helps us out of this, in fact, situation. MR. WEINMAN: Could that be interpreted as a motion to recommend number 1? 13 DR. FULLER: Yes. 14 MR. TUCKER: I would second that. 15 DR. BROWN: 16 have a second for number 1. 17 Hopefully brief discussion. We have a motion and we Now, we have discussion. 18 MR. MORAN: Dr. Brown. 19 DR. BROWN: Michael. 20 MR. MORAN: Michael Moran. I think we 21 need to have a show of hands who's all in favor of 1, 22 all in favor of 7, and whichever one carries, carries. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 187 1 2 MR. WEINMAN: table right now for number 1. 3 4 There's a motion on the DR. BROWN: True. We have to vote on that motion first. 5 MR. MORAN: -- have a second. 6 DR. BROWN: We have a second. 7 MR. MORAN: Well, I'm going to 8 recommend we vote it down and do it my way. 9 10 DR. BROWN: You can't quite do it that way, but appreciate it. 11 So unless we have a motion to table 12 this one, we're going to have to move forward with 13 voting on this motion. 14 MR. MORAN: Move to table. 15 DR. BROWN: Motion to move to table the 16 motion. 17 can offer something in substitution. 18 19 22 Then, now that you've tabled it, you MR. MORAN: I move we have a show of hands between 1 and 7. 20 21 Okay. DR. BROWN: Is there a second for that motion? DR. VAN ALFEN: Second. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Peter van Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 188 1 Alfen. 2 3 DR. BROWN: motion. Okay. Discussion on that Brief, hopefully. 4 No discussion, then all those in favor 5 of the motion to raise hands -- that's the motion now 6 folks, raise hands -- say "aye." 7 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 8 MS. WARREN: 9 This is Do you want Harcourt to raise his hand on the computer or to say "aye"? 12 13 Excuse me. Jennifer Warren. 10 11 Aye. DR. BROWN: So I was going to pause and wait to hear from him. 14 MS. WARREN: 15 DR. BROWN: 16 DR. FULLER: 17 DR. BROWN: 18 All those -- 19 DR. FULLER: 20 DR. BROWN: 21 So it sounds like we have ayes 22 unanimous. Okay. But thank you. Can I do both? No, sir. Aye. You're saying "aye." So now then, we've gotten that. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Okay. So that Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 189 1 motion to raise hands is the one that we're going to 2 move forward with. 3 recommending design 1. 4 5 MR. BERNSTEIN: once. 10 You either vote for number DR. BROWN: So you're voting for -- the motion is to recommend design 1. So you're going to raise your hands if you're going to vote for design 1. 11 12 MR. MORAN: 1 or number 7. 8 9 You only get to go To be clear. 6 7 So all those in favor of, in fact, MR. MORAN: You're going to have another one for 7, aren't you? 13 DR. BROWN: Say again? 14 MR. MORAN: You've got to have another 16 DR. BROWN: Okay. 17 MR. MORAN: The motion is a show of 15 18 19 one for 7. Well, if we get a -- hands. MR. WEINMAN: I believe the motion is 20 an up or down of design 1 or design 7. 21 what the motion on the table is. 22 MR. BERNSTEIN: I think that's Mr. Chairman. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 190 1 As I understood -- 2 This is Art Bernstein. 3 As I understood the motion, we're 4 trying to see which gets the most votes, design 1 or 5 design 7. 6 for -- those that like 1 are going to raise their 7 hand, and those that like 7 are going to raise their 8 hand. So people are going to raise their hand 9 10 DR. BROWN: I think that's my understanding too. 11 So folks, the understanding here is 12 you're going to vote only one time for 1 or 7. 13 can't vote for both. 14 15 Those in favor of design 1, please raise your hands. 16 17 You MS. WARREN: Harcourt has his hand up, sir. 18 DR. BROWN: 19 Those for design 7, raise your hand. 20 MR. MORAN: Oh, come on. DR. BROWN: So we have five. 21 22 Okay. Thank you. Somebody didn't vote. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 191 1 2 MS. WARREN: raised your hand. 3 DR. BROWN: 4 MS. WARREN: 5 DR. FULLER: Harcourt raised his hand I raised my hand, like the girls are raising their hands on number 1. 8 9 No pressure. on the first one. 6 7 Dr. Brown, you haven't DR. BROWN: Ladies and gentlemen, I do appreciate your attention to this. 10 I'm going to vote for 7. But we will 11 make sure to let the secretary know that it was a 12 robust discussion. 13 14 MR. BERNSTEIN: My heart's beating hard. 15 DR. BROWN: 16 Thank you so much. 17 Thank you, Ms. Mullis, for coming and 18 19 20 21 22 joining us. Moving right along. We really appreciate it. I want to thank the public that participated during this meeting. Ladies and gentlemen, please. We're going to move forward with the next item on the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 192 1 agenda. We will now move forward to review the 2 reverse candidate designs for the 2025 American Women 3 Quarter honoring Dr. Vera Rubin. 4 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. 5 Dr. Vera Rubin was a trailblazing 6 astronomer who pioneered work on galaxy rotation. Her 7 observations provided the first persuasive evidence of 8 dark matter, a major scientific discovery that 9 transformed our understanding of the universe. During 10 the 1970s, Dr. Rubin's work produced clear 11 observational evidence that confirmed the vast 12 majority of the mass in the universe, approximately 85 13 percent, is invisible and unknown in origin and 14 character. 15 Rubin fought sexism throughout her 16 education and career. For example, her research data 17 was often met with skepticism by her male peers. 18 Rubin, however, persevered and refused to let those 19 challenges deter her. 20 champion of women's rights and gender equality. 21 conferences, for example, she would call ahead to make 22 sure women were included in the mix of keynote She also became an active www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 At Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 193 1 speakers. 2 At a time when women were not granted 3 access to state-of-the-art telescopes, such as at the 4 Palomar Observatory, Rubin asked why. 5 that this was because at Palomar, there were no 6 restroom facilities for women. 7 and was granted observing time in 1965, she cut out a 8 piece of paper in the shape of a skirt, taped it to 9 the stick figure on the men's room, and reportedly She was told When she persevered 10 announced, "Now, you have a ladies' room." 11 only became the first woman to officially gain access 12 to Palomar, but also she played a key role in helping 13 other women gain access to these observatories. 14 Rubin not In addition to her research, Rubin 15 mentored other women astronomers, encouraged women to 16 study science, and fought for gender parity in the 17 sciences. 18 scientific committees, as conference speakers, and as 19 professors. 20 the support of her family, Rubin overcame every 21 obstacle and kept pushing the boundaries of a male- 22 dominated academia. Rubin pushed for representation of women on With an abundant passion for her work and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 194 1 All designs include a likeness of Dr. 2 Vera Rubin, along with the required inscriptions 3 "United States of America" and "E Pluribus Unum," the 4 common inscriptions "Dr. Vera Rubin" and "dark 5 matter," as well as the denomination. 6 We are very fortunate to have with us 7 Vera Rubins' sons. 8 Rubin. They are David, Karl, and Allan 9 Would you care to say a few words to 10 the committee before we move forward looking at the 11 candidate designs? 12 Either David, Karl, or Allan? MR. DAVID RUBIN: I don't think that -- 13 I don't think we had any prepared words. 14 here to answer any questions that the committee might 15 have. 16 17 MS. STAFFORD: Wonderful. But we were Thank you so much. 18 So we'll move right into the candidate 19 designs. We interestingly have three preferences of 20 the family, and they ask that the committee speak to 21 which design they feel will make the most compelling 22 point. Which design would inform as the quarters made www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 195 1 to the -- millions and millions of quarters, would be 2 the most striking, so to speak. 3 So we'll start with design 2. This 4 design features Dr. Rubin looking through a telescope, 5 surrounded by the radiating arms of a spiral galaxy. 6 The smile on her face reflects the joy she found in 7 astronomy. 8 the family has identified, as well as the Commission 9 of Fine Arts' recommendation. 10 Again, this is one of three preferences Design 3 is a profile of Dr. Rubin 11 gazing upward, smiling as she contemplates the cosmos. 12 She's surrounded by a spiral galaxy, and other 13 celestial bodies. 14 preferred designs by the family. 15 Again, this is one of three And finally, we have design 7, which 16 features Dr. Rubin with a spiral galaxy in the 17 background. 18 on the left side of the design. 19 three designs preferred by the family. 20 design 7A. An astronomical observatory is pictured Again, this is one of And finally, 21 DR. BROWN: Thank you, so much. 22 Are there any technical or legal www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 196 1 questions from the committee? 2 Arthur. 3 MR. BERNSTEIN: 4 This is Arthur Bernstein. 5 Question about the name, Vera Rubin. 6 How does the Mint decide which names to use? 7 had Ida B. Wells, we had Julia -- Juliette Gordon Low. 8 Vera Rubin had other names in-between. 9 decided it's just going to be Vera Rubin, and is that 10 We've And how is it appropriate? 11 MS. STAFFORD: So we work with the 12 scholars as well as the family representatives, and we 13 have conversations as well as, of course, research 14 into what accurately reflects the honoree, what names 15 they used if there were multiple names. 16 Dr. Vera Rubin was the name moved forward for this 17 program. 18 MR. BERNSTEIN: 19 DR. BROWN: 20 Thank you. Any other questions or comments? 21 22 And so Hearing none, let us begin our consideration. I'd like to remind us each we have www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 197 1 five minutes to, in fact, provide our comments and for 2 the benefit of the court reporter and those calling 3 in, I please ask that you state your name before you 4 begin speaking. 5 6 So let us begin with none other than Arthur. 7 8 9 MR. BERNSTEIN: order. DR. FULLER: 10 DR. BROWN: 11 DR. FULLER: 12 13 14 Top of the batting Dr. Brown. Yes, sir. Please forgive me. I believe the family put something in the chat that might be important. Is that the case? 16 MR. TATE: 18 19 20 21 22 This is Harcourt Fuller. 15 17 I'm sorry. Yeah. Karl Rubin. The family prefers 7A to 7. MS. STAFFORD: Oh, I apologize. Thank you, so much, for that clarification. MR. TATE: -- hand raised. I don't know if Mr. Rubin wants to speak. DR. BROWN: Does the Rubin family have www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 198 1 anything more they want to offer at this point? 2 MR. TATE: 3 DR. BROWN: 4 Let's turn to Arthur. 5 MR. BERNSTEIN: 6 The hand is down. Thank you. This is Arthur Bernstein in the leadoff position. 7 And the family's made it a little 8 challenging for us because of their multiple 9 preferences, but I would lean towards the 7 series. I 10 like the architectural feature of having the 11 observatory balancing out Dr. Rubin. 12 stories about her involvement with the observatory and 13 bringing other women into the observatory. 14 go with 7A or 7. And we heard the 15 DR. BROWN: 16 Let's turn to Dr. Fuller. 17 DR. FULLER: 18 Thank you, so much. Thank you, so much, Mr. Chairman. 19 This is Harcourt Fuller. 20 Can we go back to 1, please? 21 22 So I would I just want to -You know, when I look at 1, it looks www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 199 1 like she's really having fun. And the reason why -- 2 I'm sorry, what I meant to say was 2. 3 she's, you know, Dr. Rubin is really having fun. 4 it kind of reminds me of, you know -- I have two young 5 daughters, and it kind of reminds me of -- there are 6 certain animated series that they watch on TV. 7 Wildcats for example, or something like that, where 8 they're being taught about science. 9 reminds me of that. It looks like And And it kind of So I think that this would be 10 appealing to young folks. 11 this one. And so that's why I like 12 Can we go to 3, please? 13 This one she really looks like she's 14 studying the cosmos, and she is making discoveries 15 and, you know, observations and things of that nature, 16 so I also think this is strong. 17 18 19 And then if we could go to 7A, please. Thank you. I think this is perhaps the strongest. 20 Dr. Rubin looks very accomplished, very determined. 21 like the pairing of "dark matter" with, you know, the 22 spiral and the observatory as well. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 200 1 So I think the portfolio overall is 2 very strong, and it'll be challenging to see which one 3 will take the lead, but they're all strong. 4 you, very much. Thank 5 DR. BROWN: Thank you. 6 Let's turn to Kellen. 7 MR. HOARD: 8 This is Kellen Hoard. 9 To me, there's no contest in my mind. Thank you. 10 Number 3 is the best. 11 I think it shows a sense of wonder, a sense of 12 context. 13 makes me excited to, like, learn about the cosmos in a 14 way that little else has. 15 dynamic design. 16 great on its own, but to me the other designs are not 17 so good. 18 respectfully as I can. 19 Three is very exciting to me. It's flattering. It catches my eye. It It is, I think, a very It's very exciting. Not only is it And I'm going to try to say this as Design 2 to me looks like she's being 20 flushed down a toilet, or maybe sucked into a black 21 hole, and she's trying to pull herself out with a 22 telescope. And then number 7 looks like an impending www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 201 1 collision is happening with the universe and the 2 world, and it's not nearly as exciting as number 3 is. 3 7A I have specific concerns about, 4 because it reminds me -- I don't particularly like how 5 "dark matter" is placed on the design. 6 someone pulled up, like, kind of a, like a Microsoft 7 Word bubble and, kind of, typed it right over the top 8 of it. 9 particularly compelling in the first place. 10 It looks like So to me, the other designs aren't But 3 is one of the more exciting 11 designs I've seen during my meetings here, and I think 12 we should absolutely go for it. 13 sense of wonder in me, who is an avowed humanities 14 major, and now I want to switch to -- 15 16 DR. BROWN: Because it inspires a We'll talk more about that switch. 17 Moving right along. 18 Move to Dennis. 19 MR. TUCKER: 20 This is Dennis Tucker. 21 I also like design 3. 22 Thank you, Dr. Brown. It's one of two designs that shows Dr. Rubin looking to the heavens, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 202 1 and of those two, it has the larger, bolder portrait. 2 I think it's well balanced. 3 hands down the best in this portfolio. So I think it is also 4 Thank you. 5 DR. BROWN: 6 Let's move to Darla. 7 MS. JACKSON: 8 And I just want to say that I also 9 agree that number 3 is the coin out of all of the Thank you. This is Darla Jackson. 10 portfolios that we saw today that just made me gasp. 11 And I think that, the reason being, is that this is 12 the stance of a visionary. 13 she's looking up. 14 herself, but it doesn't feel too playful that it 15 becomes not serious. 16 studying, but she is loving what she does. 17 shows the looking forward that is emblematic of her 18 life, and helps describe her just in also the way that 19 she is facing. 20 elegant and exciting, and I think it is the most 21 compelling out of our designs. 22 She is looking forward, You can tell that she's enjoying So she's thoughtful, she's I think it I think the composition is really I think, just to note, number 2 I think www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 203 1 she looks like she's having fun and being playful, but 2 I don't think it's as serious as it should be for all 3 that she's done, and I think that design 7 and 7A are 4 just not as -- she looks slightly disappointed in the 5 drawings, and I think that number 3 is that sense of 6 wonder that we should be looking for. 7 DR. BROWN: Thank you, so much. 8 Let's turn to Mike. 9 MR. MORAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 10 This is Mike Moran. 11 Mike Costello. 12 MR. COSTELLO: 13 MR. MORAN: Yes. Question for you on number 14 3. When you engrave that and -- the only thing that's 15 going to be in coin really -- would you be able to do 16 it in two planes to where the cosmos behind her is not 17 as overbearing as it might be, to give her a little 18 bit of her face and her head a decent outline? 19 MR. COSTELLO: 20 Yes. 21 22 This is Mike Costello. We can have numerous planes to make that really stand out. MR. MORAN: Yeah. I think that's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 204 1 pretty. 2 Kellen, I want to thank you for ruining 3 number 2 for me. I'll never be able to look at it 4 again, even though it was originally the one I liked. 5 I'm going with number 3, guys. 6 DR. BROWN: 7 Donald. 8 MR. SCARINCI: 9 Thank you, so much. I don't know why I'm feeling like a proud dad with this guy, you know. I 10 mean, he said it -- he said exactly what I would say. 11 I mean, this is -- and the impassioned speech I was 12 going to make, I can't make anymore, because he took 13 it. 14 when you look at the designs of the coins we've done 15 today, and these will all be packaged in the same 16 package, right, you know, this one is a dynamic coin. 17 And, you know, I would add to it that, you know, It's the coin that you're going to, you 18 know -- number 3 is the coin, you know, you're going 19 to really focus on. 20 to do a coin that's going to be dynamic and not a 21 standing figure, and that's going to be in the final 22 one in the series. And we have one more opportunity But, you know, this is a no- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 205 1 brainer. 2 number 2. And I couldn't agree more with Kellen as to I mean, he said it exactly -- he's got it. 3 DR. BROWN: Thank you, so much. 4 Let's turn, now, to Peter. 5 DR. VAN ALFEN: 6 This is Peter van Alfen. 7 I, too, would like to thank Kellen for Thank you, Dr. Brown. 8 his rather colorful description. I have concerns with 9 that interpretation, let's say, as well. I am very 10 much in favor of number 3. This does, of course, have 11 a very dynamic feel to it. Does have my preferred 12 profile portrait. 13 design, however, is that there seems to be an equation 14 between "The United States of America" and "dark 15 matter," since they're both in the same line and same 16 font as well, and I'm a little worried about 17 interpretation of that. 18 could be incuse or somehow differentiated from "The 19 United States of America" just to make that 20 distinction, rather than an equation. 21 22 The one concern I have with this Wondering if "dark matter" MR. COSTELLO: Yeah. Wouldn't be a problem. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 206 1 2 DR. VAN ALFEN: to say. 3 Thank you. 4 DR. BROWN: 5 John. 6 MR. SAUNDERS: 7 10 Thank you, so much. I've got a question for April to start off with. 8 9 So that's all I've got In 7 and 7A, is that a particular observatory, or is that just a symbolic depiction of the observatory? 11 MS. STAFFORD: 12 design manager that it's both. 13 Kitt's Peak. So I'm told by the And I believe it's 14 MR. SAUNDERS: I'm sorry? 15 MS. STAFFORD: I believe it's Kitt's 16 Peak. 17 Maybe the liaisons can confirm. MR. ALLAN RUBIN: That is Kitt. So this is Allan 18 Rubin. That is where she did some of 19 the earliest work on galaxy rotations. 20 from a photograph of Kitt Peak in Arizona. So that is 21 DR. BROWN: Okay. Thank you. 22 MS. BORER: I believe it's also meant www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 207 1 to be representative as well. 2 I'm sorry. This is Pam Borer. 3 MR. SAUNDERS: I think that adds a 4 little bit to the importance of that design. 5 3, too -- or excuse me, 3, like, some reasons that 6 people have said earlier. 7 that she's looking in the universe. 8 on the coin, particularly after the coin is circulated 9 slightly, that it's -- they're not going to know what 10 this is all about, because, you know, it's -- I don't 11 know that you can understand that she's peering at the 12 universe, just someone picking up the quarter and 13 looking at it. 14 observatory. 15 I like In the picture, it's clear I'm afraid that And 7, you understand it's an You understand that she's an astronomer. One, I'm -- I was thinking more of her 16 disappearing either in quicksand or some sort of space 17 warp that was sucking her in as opposed to a toilet, 18 but I kind of like it, but I kind of worry about it. 19 So I'm going to be a 7A guy. 20 them have something and I think all three of these get 21 our artistic merit awards. 22 DR. BROWN: But, you know, all of Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 208 1 Chris. 2 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 3 Batting clean-up, as I tend to do. 4 I will just share a story that a phrase 5 I learned from my colleagues at MIT in the sciences is 6 the phrase "doing science," which I had never really 7 known until I met scientists. 8 this coin to show her doing science, and I think for 9 me that actually is an argument against 7, right, All right. And so I really wanted 10 which seems, I think, maybe too formal, too posed. 11 And I don't know that the observatory will read to 12 most people, you know, easily, especially in the coin 13 format. 14 Some concerns about 2 have been raised 15 and colorfully delineated, so I think that, you know, 16 we stand with 3. 17 font, the sort of "NASA-esque" font. 18 tell, is the entire coin meant to be done in that one 19 font, or is some -- is "E Pluribus Unum" for example 20 different? 21 observe that I like the font as done in her name, as 22 done in "United States of America," that has some of I like the profile. I also like the I can't quite I would just, you know, I -- I'll just www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 209 1 those curves that feel 60s, 70s-esque along the way. 2 And I think I'll leave it at that. 3 DR. BROWN: My colleagues. 4 This is one of the few times I'm going 5 to have to respectfully disagree with all of you. And 6 I say that by virtue of the fact of being a scientist, 7 and I also say that by virtue of that fact that, you 8 may not know, but all the coins that the United States 9 has made since 1793, less than 10 have celebrated a 10 theme that has to do with a science or scientist. 11 to me, I'm glad to see this, because this would be the 12 exception. 13 So The other thing that I must say, that 14 reason why I disagree with you, is 2. I think your 15 way that you're looking at 2 is actually from the 16 standpoint of a non-scientist viewing it. 17 she's using her instrument. 18 fact, the telescope. 19 you're going to have to explain to a child, to see 20 them -- they say, "What is that, daddy?" "What is 21 that, mommy?" 22 "What does that do, daddy and mommy?" Two is that Her instrument is, in An observatory is something To me, you can say, "A telescope." www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 To me, it Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 210 1 represents an opportunity. 2 Although I do appreciate the 3 perspectives that you have shared, those more colorful 4 than others, I must confess that from a scientist 5 standpoint there is in fact -- there's pride and humor 6 in a discovery. 7 they have a discovery, they want to tell everybody and 8 they are smiling about the fact that they've made a 9 discovery. 10 Many scientists, I can tell you, when So to me, it is not unusual to have that type of disposition. 11 So with that, I'm going to end, but I 12 appreciate it and I hope that as we get more themes 13 that have to do with science, many more of my 14 colleagues will be able to, in fact, appreciate it, 15 and I'll have the opportunity to share them that 16 perspective. 17 18 So without further ado, unless there's any additional comments or motions -- seeing none. 19 20 And Mike, do you have any comments that you have? 21 MR. COSTELLO: 22 DR. BROWN: No. The Rubin family, do you www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 211 1 have any comments that you would like to share with 2 the committee before we begin our vote? 3 4 Hearing none, the committee will now score -- 5 MR. ALLAN RUBIN: 6 DR. BROWN: 7 MR. ALLAN RUBIN: 8 I'm sorry. Please, speak. No, this is Allan Rubin. 9 10 So -- I don't see myself, but I guess you can hear me speaking? 11 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 12 MR. ALLAN RUBIN: Yes. I've been interested 13 in the comments, and I think there's merit to all the 14 comments. These coins, what the -- am I being heard? 15 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 16 MR. ALLAN RUBIN: 17 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 18 MR. ALLAN RUBIN: Yes. Yes? Yes. Yeah. So each of 19 these coins was the favorite of one of us. I'll just 20 say that for number 2 was my choice -- comments 21 that -- the reason I liked it is it really -- the joy 22 she felt in doing the work she did. And I could www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 212 1 actually see the merits and the demerits of all of 2 these, I just thought I would add my voice to the -- 3 to one of the reasons that number 2 -- well -- thank 4 you. 5 6 MR. DAVE RUBIN: Okay. Well, this is Dave Rubin. 7 If we're going to give our personal 8 preferences, I like 3. 9 of us substantially preferred these designs to all the 10 But I think we're -- all three other ones that we viewed. 11 DR. BROWN: Thank you, so much. 12 At this point, then, let's, in fact, 13 each of us, score using the scoring sheets, the 14 reverse candidate designs for the 2025 Dr. Vera Rubin 15 Quarter. 16 Please, ladies and gentlemen, we're 17 going to stay put. 18 colleagues, don't go too far. 19 directly into the next program. 20 21 22 Because we're going to move -- THE REPORTER: We're going to move Dr. Brown, are we off the record? DR. BROWN: Off the record. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 213 1 2 MR. TATE: five minutes? 3 DR. BROWN: 4 MR. TATE: 5 We're going to recess for Three minutes. Three minutes. 3:55. 6 (Off the record.) 7 MS. WARREN: 8 11 12 13 Okay. We are back. It's 3:57. 9 10 The time is DR. BROWN: This is Lawrence Brown. We are back. I recognize Greg Weinman to provide the scores from the results -- results from the scores. MR. WEINMAN: I'm pleased to report 14 that we have a clear winner on this one. 15 received 15 out of 33 points; 3 received 26 out of 33 16 points; 7 received nine; and 7A received ten. 17 again, design number 3 was the clear winner with 26 18 out of 33 points. 19 20 DR. BROWN: Number 2 So once Are there any motions based on what you have heard? 21 Kellen. 22 MR. HOARD: I would move to recommend www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 214 1 design 2. 2 DR. VAN ALFEN: 3 DR. BROWN: 4 Peter van Alfen, second Any discussion on the motion? 5 MR. BERNSTEIN: I would offer a 6 friendly amendment to make the modification that Peter 7 suggested, with regard to the wording. 8 DR. VAN ALFEN: 9 DR. BROWN: Yeah, that's friendly. You accept? 10 DR. VAN ALFEN: I accept, yeah. 11 MR. BERNSTEIN: Arthur Bernstein made 12 that friendly amendment. Sorry. 13 DR. BROWN: 14 Any further discussion on the motion 15 with the friendly amendment? 16 17 Thank you. Hearing none, all those in favor say "aye." 18 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: Aye. 19 DR. BROWN: 20 The motion carries. 21 Thank you, so much. 22 And again, as the discussion has Opposed, "nay." www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 215 1 concluded here, I'd like to thank the Rubin family for 2 their participation. 3 participation was really instrumental in us being able 4 to understand what we have before us. We really appreciate that your 5 So we're going to, in fact -- 6 Thank you and have a great remainder of 7 the day. 8 9 We're going to move forward with the next item on our agenda. Ladies and gentlemen -- 10 MR. RUBIN: Thank you. 11 DR. BROWN: Thank you, so much. 12 Next item is to review the reverse 13 candidate designs for the 2025 American Women's 14 Quarter honoring Althea Gibson. 15 Ms. Stafford. 16 MS. STAFFORD: Althea Gibson was born 17 on August 25, 1927, to Daniel and Annie Bell Gibson, 18 sharecroppers on a cotton farm near Silver, South 19 Carolina. 20 York City. 21 up playing paddle tennis on the section of 143rd 22 Street between Lenox and Seventh Avenues that was In 1930, the family moved to Harlem in New Gibson was a very athletic child who grew www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 216 1 barricaded during the day so neighborhood kids could 2 play sports under the supervision of the Police 3 Athletic League. 4 Gibson worked fiercely as she rose to 5 the top of the tennis ranks, breaking the color 6 barrier to the sport in 1950, when she became the 7 first black person to compete in the U.S. Open, then 8 known as the U.S. Nationals. 9 narrowly to the reigning Wimbledon champion, the Although she lost 10 following year she won her first international title, 11 the Caribbean Championship in Jamaica. 12 After graduating from Florida A&M, 13 Gibson began teaching physical education at Lincoln 14 University in Jefferson City, Missouri, but continued 15 her tennis competitions. 16 Department sent her on a goodwill tour of Asia, and 17 once overseas, she remained abroad, winning 16 of 18 18 tennis tournaments in Europe and Asia. In 1955, the State 19 1957 was a banner year of more firsts 20 for Gibson who became not only the first black woman 21 to appear on the covers of Sports Illustrated and Time 22 magazines, but also the first black person to be voted www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 217 1 Female Athlete of the Year by the Associated Press, an 2 honor she would win again the following year. 3 In late 1958, after having won 56 4 national and international singles and doubles titles, 5 including 11 grand slam championships, Gibson retired 6 from amateur tennis at the age of 31. 7 37, Gibson became the first black woman to join the 8 Ladies Professional Golf Association in 1964, breaking 9 course records during individual rounds in several 10 11 At the age of tournaments until 1977. "Everything Althea had to do was three 12 times harder than it was for non-person of color," 13 said Katrina Adams, a former professional tennis 14 player and the first black person to serve as the 15 president of the U.S. Tennis Association. 16 what she did was transcendent." 17 "For me, Bonnie Morris, professor of women's 18 sports history at the University of California at 19 Berkeley and a member of the National Women's History 20 Museum's Scholars Advisory Council, writes: 21 many black athletes before her, Gibson became the face 22 of American achievement in a global sports platform www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 "Like Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 218 1 while navigating, with dignity and poise, racist 2 pushback against her success from the very white 3 tennis world back home. 4 the way for future black talent in tennis." 5 Her groundbreaking wins paved All the designs include a likeness of 6 Althea Gibson, along with the required inscriptions 7 "United States of America" and "E Pluribus Unum," the 8 common inscription, "Althea Gibson," and the 9 denomination. We are very fortunate to have with us 10 today the cousin of Althea Gibson, our liaison, Don 11 Felder. 12 Thank you so much for being with us. 13 Thank you, also, for your patience. 14 say a few words to the committee before we share the 15 candidate designs? 16 MR. FELDER: 17 Thank you, so much. Would you care to Sure. It's an honor 18 being here. 19 would be very pleased. 20 process and the decisions that are made, and we're 21 excited. 22 I've enjoyed the process, and Althea So I look forward to the MS. STAFFORD: Thank you, so much. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 219 1 certainly, if the committee members have questions, we 2 will come back to you. Appreciate that very much. 3 MR. FELDER: Sure. 4 MS. STAFFORD: Yes, thank you. Moving onto the 5 candidate designs. We have candidate design number 1. 6 This design portrays Althea Gibson with a racquet in 7 one hand and a ball in the other, while standing 8 confidently by a net on a tennis court as if in 9 preparation before playing a match. The additional 10 inscription is "trailblazing champion." 11 liaison's preferred design, and it's also the 12 recommendation by the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts. 13 This is our Our liaison notes that this design best 14 captures her likeness and her essence. Interestingly, 15 the CFA really rallied, so to speak, around this 16 design. 17 this way would have just won. 18 appropriate in that way. 19 possible, asked that the Mint revisit -- if this 20 design should be selected by the secretary, revisit 21 the spacing of the tennis racquet webbing to make it a 22 bit finer, if at all possible. Noting that someone standing at the net in So they found it The CFA, to the degree www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 220 1 Moving onto designs 2, 2A, 3A and 3B, 2 4, 4A, 4B, and finally design 5B. 3 the candidate designs. And that concludes 4 DR. BROWN: 5 From the committee, are there any legal 6 Thank you, so much. or technical questions? 7 Seeing none, then let us begin our 8 consideration. I'd like to remind members that we 9 have five minutes, and please try to keep it within 10 that period of time. And if there's any questions, 11 please refrain from them until after we've completed 12 this process. For the benefit of the court reporter 13 and those calling in, I ask that you state your name 14 when you begin speaking. 15 So let us begin with Darla. 16 MS. JACKSON: This is Darla Jackson. 17 And I am -- I have two that I like, but 1 is just such 18 a stunningly beautiful portrait. 19 incredibly happy. 20 on the tennis racket should be finer. 21 inclusion of the tennis net and how that completes the 22 bottom of the portrait. She does look so I completely agree that the webbing I do like the The text feels appropriate to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 221 1 the design, and again, she just looks so incredibly 2 stunning and happy that, how can you not just want to 3 look at that one. 4 I also want to mention that I think 5 number 4 is a very elegant and beautiful design. 6 Seeing her from the side in action is really nice, and 7 I also think the line that carries throughout is just 8 an interesting element, and I would like to just add a 9 note about that one as well. 10 DR. BROWN: Thank you, so much. 11 Let's turn to Arthur. 12 MR. BERNSTEIN: 13 And I agree with everything that Darla This is Art Bernstein. 14 just said about design 1. But I had three, I guess, 15 technical points to make. I think we all agree that 16 the racquet looks incorrect, and if you look at design 17 3A you can see a racquet that has a more appropriate 18 number of strings. My second technical point has to 19 do with her teeth. It looks like she has just one big 20 tooth, and I didn't understand why it's just that 21 white space. 22 looks too small. And lasty, the tennis ball itself to me I don't know how big her hands were, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 222 1 but it looks almost more like a ping pong ball than a 2 tennis ball, and it doesn't have any of the markings 3 that a tennis ball would have. 4 DR. BROWN: 5 Let's turn to Mike. 6 MR. MORAN: 7 This is Michael Moran. 8 I'm okay with 1. 9 was 2A. Thank you, so much. Thank you, Dr. Brown. My favorite, really, It's in action; she's about to serve. I 10 particularly like the fact that the inscriptions are 11 handled in a very unique style not imposing upon the 12 figure, and the figure still dominates on the palette. 13 That's all I've got to say. Thank you. 14 DR. BROWN: Thank you, so much. 15 Donald. 16 MR. SCARINCI: You know, I hope people 17 aren't reacting to the portrait of 1. The portrait of 18 1 is very -- it's the superior face. 19 we've seen, and it may be the same artist who gave us 20 one of the earlier ones, that had the superior face. 21 But as a coin, I mean, I think getting some action in 22 the coin needs to happen. And I think You know, and to produce www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 223 1 another coin, especially in this package of five that 2 we're talking about today, I really can't see going 3 with number 1. 4 I agree with Mike. 5 know, my preference would be 2 as opposed to 2A, 6 because to put the "25 cents" -- you know, to get it 7 off her back. 8 that disturbs me. 9 As to 2 and 2A, you I think it's on her back in 2A, and I like what's going on in 4. I mean, 10 you know, 4 is -- you know, just looks, you know, it 11 looks like a stroke, you know, and it's -- there's a 12 lot of action there, there's interest there. 13 think for me, it's really coming down -- and, you 14 know, and just to mention it, 5A just disturbs me 15 because of the three balls. 16 They seem to be all -- they seem to be coming down -- 17 raining down on her, and that kind of ruins it for me. 18 But, you know, so I think if the artist had done this 19 a little differently, I might have been an advocate, 20 you know, for 5A, but, you know, I think action -- I 21 think we need action. 22 me, it's between 2 and 4 for this coin. So I You know, four balls. So I really think it's -- for www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 224 1 DR. BROWN: 2 Let's turn to Peter. 3 DR. VAN ALFEN: 4 Thank you. Dr. Brown, thank you very much. 5 This is Peter van Alfen. 6 I'm okay with 1 as well, but I do have 7 a very strong preference for a couple of the others. 8 3B I find really appealing for the intensity and 9 tension that I sense in the portrayal of Gibson. I 10 also like the treatment of the "25 cents" over the 11 mesh of the racket. 12 that 4 is also really quite attractive, and of these, 13 4B, I have to say, is my favorite, simply because I 14 think it is very eye catching and also has a certain 15 dynamism to it as well. 16 Thank you. I agree with Donald and Darla That's all I've got to say. 17 DR. BROWN: 18 Let's turn to John. 19 MR. SAUNDERS: 20 Thank you. I'd like to agree with Donald. 21 John Saunders here, by the way. 22 I was very disturbed. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I only saw three Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 225 1 of the balls when I first looked at it. But I think 2 5A would be a very good design if it had one ball. 3 And I really don't see what the rest of them did. 4 if you excluded that because of the balls, I mean -- 5 you could take some of the balls out, I guess. 6 I like 4B a lot. But It's been -- I like 7 the contrast. Maybe it looks better in the picture 8 than it's going to look on the coin but I like the 9 contrast between the positive areas and the negative 10 areas, and I like the action figure. 11 ones that have the same design on it, but I think I 12 like this one better just because it appeals to me 13 with the contrast there. 14 acceptable design. 15 it, but I'd like to see a little bit more action 16 happening if possible. 17 I like the other One is a perfectly I mean, there's nothing wrong with And I also agree with Mike on 3. I 18 like the justification of the legends being at right 19 angles there. 20 But I like the action in 4 better, so I'm going to be 21 a supporter of 4B, unless we can get rid of some 22 tennis balls in 5A. I think that's kind of a nice thing. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 226 1 DR. BROWN: Thank you, so much. 2 Let's turn to Kellen. 3 MR. HOARD: 4 I think this is my favorite overall Thank you. 5 portfolio today. I think there's not any super weak 6 designs. 7 that, you know, for an athlete she should be doing 8 something athletic rather than just posing. 9 should be that motion and action, force and power, in I also think Donald got it right, which is 10 there. 11 just going to list them off. 12 There So there were -- I had trouble picking, so I'm So I like 2 quite a bit. I thought 13 that was just a bit of a poppy design. 14 and it was impactful. 15 impactful to me. 16 just before, you know, the serve. 17 one of the pieces that, you know, if you look at 5, 18 would be quite eye catching. 19 It was sleek And her name really just was And I felt a sense of tension there I thought this was So I thought 3B was also nice and kind 20 of used the field well. Four understood its medium, 21 which I really appreciated. 22 on a coin, but it understands that circular space that It's not just art that's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 227 1 it's on and what it's meant to be and uses that really 2 creatively, and I like designs that understand the 3 medium they're in. 4 just felt like it showed the level of force that she 5 had and how powerful she was, which is a difficult 6 thing to do on a stationary coin, but I feel a sense 7 of motion even more on this one even than on 4. 8 9 4A, also quite interesting. I And I thought 4B was just very modern and creative and exciting, and I'll rank that one 10 highly as well. So really, I mean, a good portfolio. 11 But I would tend to shy away from 1 as a standing 12 still portrait for someone who had so much motion and 13 action and power to her. Thank you. 14 DR. BROWN: Thank you, so much. 15 Dr. Fuller. 16 DR. FULLER: 17 This is Harcourt Fuller. 18 This is a very strong portfolio. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And 19 let me just say before I go into the designs if I may. 20 This is what is so great about this program, because 21 it brings to the floor many great Americans who many 22 people may not have heard about before. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I think Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 228 1 that's always very important, because I think 2 sometimes we take to be presentist in the sense that 3 we know who's reigning today or living today, but we 4 don't, you know, we don't look at the history of those 5 who paved the way and things of that nature. 6 appreciate this coin for that reason. 7 So I I think that a lot of people around the 8 world are going to learn about yet another great 9 American who paved the way for so many other people. 10 I like 1. I don't have a problem with her standing 11 still, as was it displayed, it looks like she had just 12 won a championship, and so for that reason I don't see 13 the need for her to -- for motion in this sense, 14 because it's conveyed, you know, the fact that she 15 just won. 16 However, I would like to also give a 17 shoutout to a couple of others. 3A, if I may. I 18 really like 3A. 19 you know, she looks very determined. 20 she's about to, you know, to win, and also, you see 21 the crowd. 22 match. Again, it shows that she -- you see, She looks like Which is what you would expect at a tennis www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 229 1 4B was also great. I like the contrast 2 as well. Again, I don't know how it will look on a 3 coin, but I definitely like her motion and I like the 4 contrast. 5 about this, and I agree with everyone else, if we 6 just, you know, just have one ball. 7 that she's looking to the heavens, if you will. 8 very inspirational and spiritual if I might add, which 9 will resonate within many communities. And then finally, 5A. What I really like I like the fact It's She just looks 10 like, you know, she has been -- she's blessed, and, 11 you know, she is, you know, it just looks very 12 inspirational. Thank you. 13 DR. BROWN: 14 Dennis. 15 MR. TUCKER: Thank you, so much. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 16 This is Dennis Tucker. I think design 1 is 17 serviceable. 18 inscription, it gets the job done. 19 make a great congressional gold medal in the 20 conservative vein, but it's just not exciting. 21 not the kind of active excitement and athleticism that 22 we would expect, I think, for this coin. The combination of the portrait and the I think it would www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Its Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 230 1 I prefer, like John, 4B. And I'll 2 explain why. 3 observation that, so far, each years' set of five 4 coins includes one that is a very active full or 5 nearly full figure portrait of the woman that it's 6 honoring. 7 arms outstretched like a flying bird. 8 Maria Tallchief leaping in a graceful ballet movement, 9 and in 2024 we have Celia Cruz in mid-performance 10 My preference for 4B comes from an We have, in 2022, Maya Angelou with her 2023, we have singing and dancing. 11 So we have at least one coin in each 12 group that is very active, and for that reason I'm 13 drawn to the group of 04, so it's 4A -- what is it, 4A 14 and 4B. 15 because I think it will look remarkable in proof. 16 What we see as a black field would be polished with 17 some sort of a stippling or other textured to the 18 right, and I think it's just a remarkable design in 19 that sense. 20 that I think "trailblazer" is appropriate, and I think 21 that's another advantage to 4B. 22 "trailblazer" is included. And of those three, I'm most intrigued by 4B, Also, I -- as a writer, I would point out The word I'm not bothered by the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 231 1 fact that "champion" is not included because I think 2 that she was a trailblazer whether she won a 3 competition or not. 4 competitions made her someone who blazed trails. 5 those are my thoughts. Just appearing in these 6 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 7 DR. BROWN: 8 Chris. 9 DR. CAPOZZOLA: So Thank you. All right. I 10 appreciate my colleagues' comments. I also was sort 11 of thinking a little bit of Maria Tallchief and some 12 of the other quarters that, you know, really have some 13 action and some motion in them. 14 haven't talked about here, and we may need to go back 15 to the family about this, that there were some 16 concerns about the likeness and part of the appeal for 17 the family of number 1, was that it was the best 18 likeness. 19 like the designs of 2, 3, and 4 in different ways I 20 can talk about, you know, I think that is worth 21 addressing. 22 later. The one thing we And so there are ways in which, although I I don't know if we'd do that now or www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 232 1 I will say, of the -- I think, you 2 know, I like 5 a lot if it had fewer tennis balls and 3 fewer words. 4 Dennis really said it perfectly. 5 that we need. 6 will remember most, right, is 2. 7 I just love the creativity that the artist took here 8 with the space and with the lettering, and even if we 9 don't adopt number 2, I'd love to see more designs as 10 I think that, you know, again, as -"Trailblazer" is all I will just point out, the one that I And, you know, if -- innovative as 2. 11 And so I'll just leave it there, and 12 maybe, either now or later, ask either April or the 13 liaison to speak about likeness. 14 DR. BROWN: Colleagues. I must confess 15 that this is one of the programs that really has me 16 really proud to be with you, because when I first 17 joined the CCAC, I had no idea that I was going to 18 have the opportunity to actually participate in such 19 an endeavor. 20 because we're coming to the end of this program and it 21 almost has me tearing at the fact that we are coming 22 to the end of a program for which is so important, as Especially, I bring it to you now, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 233 1 we in fact have members of our society see that women 2 are represented in a way that we find that we should 3 be representing and should have been representing all 4 along. 5 And that's what makes this difficult 6 for me. Because on the one hand, I do in fact share 7 with the family about the likeness issue, so we'll 8 come back to that. 9 fact that there's no motion. And I'm not really opposed to the Because I think motion 10 is not the only way that you can communicate 11 representation, or the fact that, "I could be this; 12 this is something that I could aspire to." 13 is the fact that if you see me, whether you see me in 14 motion or see me just standing still, the fact that 15 you see me is a message that we should continue to 16 communicate to others. 17 So to me So I'm not going to go into detail for 18 each of the designs, but I must confess, in this case, 19 I would lean in the direction of the family based on 20 what they've said, because I believe that this is such 21 a significant time that having a likeness really is 22 also important with respect to a coin, particularly www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 234 1 about a woman. 2 Having said that, now I'm going to 3 entertain any additional comments or questions. 4 let me do this. 5 6 Let me come back to Chris, because he raised a question, and we'll come to your point. 7 8 So DR. CAPOZZOLA: This would be the point in which -- 9 DR. BROWN: 10 Yes. DR. CAPOZZOLA: Either April or 11 Felder -- Mr. Felder, if you could speak to -- you had 12 raised that you appreciated number 1 as being the best 13 likeness. 14 likenesses in 2, 3, 4, and 5? 15 Are there specific objections to the MR. FELDER: A family member sent me a 16 photo only this morning, two actually, and it sort of 17 reinforced the likeness. 18 same in two of the photos that I received this morning 19 from a family member. 20 Dr. Fuller indicated earlier, I can understand 21 accepting the points you made on a number of the 22 others, and especially I believe it was 5. The hair was exactly the However, likeness -- like www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I believe Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 235 1 it was 5. No, 4; the contrast. I mean, there's a lot 2 there. 3 was, in fact, without a doubt. 4 thought courageous, because during those days, she was 5 quite courageous to walk in doors that were closed to 6 her, and -- but trailblazer says it all. 7 lot. 8 and equate it to Jackie Robinson as a trailblazer. There's action, there's "trailblazer," she And then I actually It says a It's what she's known to be throughout the years 9 So you know, with that said, I -- 4B is 10 a beautiful design. 11 will it look on a coin, and how will that contrast 12 show? 13 tough choice. 14 of the family members, including her younger sister. 15 So that said, I think I have to stick with 1. 16 beautiful designs. 17 designs. 18 it'll be interesting to see how it's voted, how it's 19 selected overall. It's tough. But again, how -- I mean, how I'm a coin collector. This is a Number 1 is what was voted on by most They're There are a number of beautiful It's tough, and at this point I can only say 20 DR. BROWN: 21 We're going to go to John, and then 22 Thank you, so much. Kellen. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 236 1 MR. SAUNDERS: I have a question for 2 voting. 3 I mean, I think several people have agreed with what I 4 said, that four balls is distracting and so forth. 5 And it seems like it could be modified pretty easily. 6 I don't know if that's a question for the Chair, or 7 the Mint, or both. 8 9 10 Can we vote as an entry for 5A with one ball? MR. WEINMAN: You could make a motion if you want to, to add to potentially vote for a, I guess, a 5B, which would be 5A, but with one ball. 11 If you want to make that motion. 12 MR. SAUNDERS: 13 DR. BROWN: 14 this motion at this time? 15 I'll make that motion. So is there a second on So I think it's important to share with 16 the committee that making a motion here does -- can 17 affect whether or not it's really necessary to do a 18 vote in the way that we traditionally would be. 19 would -- I'm sorry -- the scoring. 20 the scoring just to give to the artists to give our 21 sense, but it would have a different effect. 22 We We would still do So again, I need a second for the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 237 1 motion before we can go further with that. 2 3 I don't sense we have a motion, so we'll need to go forward. 4 5 MR. SAUNDERS: Nope. I'm by myself on this one, it looks like, so I'll withdraw it then. 6 DR. BROWN: Kellen. 7 MR. HOARD: Yeah. 8 I was going to ask Mike, in terms of 9 the contrast piece, how would that show up on a 10 circulated coin versus a new coin? 11 contrast would be -- look like -- 12 13 MR. COSTELLO: Do you feel that I mean, only the letters -- 14 Sorry, this is Mike Costello. 15 The letters; that's the only thing that 16 could pop at all. Because the one set's going to be 17 incused, and the other set on the other side will be 18 sitting proud on the surface. 19 that scale, it should be okay. 20 like you guys were saying -- it's a polished surface. 21 DR. FULLER: 22 DR. BROWN: How that'll look at But the proof version, Mr. Chair. Yes, Dr. Fuller. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 238 1 2 DR. FULLER: May I ask a question of Don? 3 DR. BROWN: Please, proceed. 4 DR. FULLER: Don, if I may. This is 5 Harcourt Fuller. 6 1, would you say that 5A has the closest likeness of 7 her to the other coins? 8 9 That's kind of -- yeah. MR. FELDER: A little. Not so much. 10 11 I wanted to ask, outside of number I can only say somewhat. I think -- gosh. DR. FULLER: Forgive me for putting you MR. FELDER: You're not. on the spot. 12 I mean, a 13 little. 14 having looked at one over and over and over and over 15 and just seeing so much of her, it's difficult to look 16 at. 17 balls. 18 discussed that amongst ourselves previously. 19 are just -- there are too many balls. 20 looked at that design and I looked at her focus 21 upwards. 22 I see a little over there, but of course What was it 5, with the balls? Yeah, 5A with the And I agree that there are too many balls. We There But earlier, I It's nice. DR. FULLER: If I may, I'll just close www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 239 1 by saying, it appears to me that if some of the other 2 designs had a closer resemblance to her, that they 3 would be stronger. So I'm just saying that as a 4 general statement. They would be stronger; they would 5 be competitive with 1, I guess I -- that's what I'd 6 like to say. 7 MR. FELDER: Yes. Yes. but then the 8 contrast, I think, overall, if there had to be -- my 9 choice if there had to be one other than number 1, I 10 think that's quite impressive there. 11 12 DR. BROWN: I'm mindful of the time, and Mr. Felder we want to thank you for your patience. 13 I think my colleagues suggest that we 14 should go forward with scoring, because it might help 15 us to finally come to a decision. 16 So again, you should have your scoring 17 sheets in front of you, and please give them to Greg 18 Weinman when you're through. 19 brief, five-minute break. 20 the record for five minutes. 21 22 MS. WARREN: We're going to take a So we're going to go off It's 4:30. at 4:35. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 We'll be back Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 240 1 (Off the record.) 2 MS. WARREN: 3 Okay. back, actually, a minute early. We're going to get So 4:34. 4 I'll hand it over to Dr. Brown. 5 DR. BROWN: Good afternoon. This is 6 Lawrence Brown. 7 Weinman, who will present the results from the scoring 8 sheets. 9 We are back, and I recognize Greg MR. WEINMAN: This is a closer 10 competition. 11 Design 2 received 20 out of 33 points. 12 eight, 3A received four, 3B received ten. 13 received 20 out of 33 points. 14 received 24 points. 15 So the high-scoring design is 4B with 24 points, 16 followed closely by 4 with 20, and 2 with 20. 17 18 Design 1 received 16 out of 33 points. MR. SCARINCI: 4A received 12, 4B Question. What did 2A get? MR. WEINMAN: 20 MR. SCARINCI: 22 Design 4 And so 5A received eight points. 19 21 2A received 2A received eight. So 2A and 2 received 28 combined. DR. BROWN: That's one way to look at www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 241 1 it. 2 MR. HOARD: 3 MR. SCARINCI: 4 So we'll call CCAC back. So then it gives rise to a possible motion, which I wouldn't mind doing. 5 MR. WEINMAN: Well, arguably the same 6 could be said -- 4 received 20, 4A received 12, and 4B 7 received 24. 8 9 So that would be 56. DR. BROWN: So the Chair is interested in hearing a motion. 10 Dennis. 11 MR. TUCKER: 12 Dr. Brown, I move that we accept the This is Dennis Tucker. 13 high ranking vote of 24 applied to 4B, and make that 14 our recommendation to the secretary. 15 MR. SAUNDERS: 16 DR. BROWN: I second. Second from John on the 17 record, Dennis made the motion. 18 the motion? 19 20 MR. HOARD: Is any discussion on I had a question, if I could. 21 This is Kellen Hoard 22 Mike, I was just wondering if you www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 242 1 could, since this is the one on the motion to 2 consider. 3 the circulating coins. 4 proof, I just don't know whether that contrast would 5 show up on -- I like the design, I just don't know if 6 it would show up on circulating. Just provide any more detail on contrast on 7 I think it'll look great as a MR. COSTELLO: Yeah, again, as far as 8 the contrast, the lettering itself coming around. 9 That's where the transition's going to be. 10 11 MR. HOARD: Yeah. But the fields would look okay, you think, on the -- 12 MR. COSTELLO: 13 MR. HOARD: 14 MR. SCARINCI: Yeah. Okay. And for discussion on 15 the motion, I think that it received the majority, we 16 should -- that. 17 18 DR. BROWN: Any further conversation or discussion on the motion? 19 20 Okay. Hearing none, all those in favor, "aye." 21 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 22 Any "nays"? Aye. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 243 1 Hearing none, the motion passes. 2 Outstanding. 3 As discussion has concluded, 4 Mr. Felder, we'd like to thank you for attending, and 5 also for your patience, as you, in fact, stayed around 6 to -- able to deal with the program. 7 and -- 8 9 MR. FELDER: So thank you, Well, I thank you all, and it's a beautiful choice. 10 DR. BROWN: 11 Colleagues and the public, as this is 12 the last order of business for the day, I would like 13 to thank the CCAC members, the Mint staff, our 14 liaisons, and the participating public for their 15 attendance today. 16 Thank you, so much. Committee will now stand in recess 17 until 9 a.m. tomorrow morning, when we will reconvene 18 and take under consideration the 2023 fiscal annual 19 report, the future numismatic themes working group 20 report, and the conversation with respect to the 21 liberty program tomorrow. 22 Based on that, we are adjourned. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 244 1 MS. WARREN: It is 4:38. 2 (Whereupon, the meeting concluded at 3 4:38 p.m.) 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 245 1 2 CERTIFICATE I, MATTHEW YANCEY, the officer before whom 3 the foregoing proceedings were taken, do hereby 4 certify that any witness(es) in the foregoing 5 proceedings, prior to testifying, were duly sworn; 6 that the proceedings were recorded by me and 7 thereafter reduced to typewriting by a qualified 8 transcriptionist; that said digital audio recording of 9 said proceedings are a true and accurate record to the 10 best of my knowledge, skills, and ability; that I am 11 neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any 12 of the parties to the action in which this was taken; 13 and, further, that I am not a relative or employee of 14 any counsel or attorney employed by the parties 15 hereto, nor financially or otherwise interested in the 16 outcome of this action. 17 MATTHEW YANCEY 18 Notary Public in and for the 19 District of Columbia 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 24, 2023 Page 246 1 2 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER I, LYDIA WEISS, do hereby certify that this 3 transcript was prepared from the digital audio 4 recording of the foregoing proceeding, that said 5 transcript is a true and accurate record of the 6 proceedings to the best of my knowledge, skills, and 7 ability; that I am neither counsel for, related to, 8 nor employed by any of the parties to the action in 9 which this was taken; and, further, that I am not a 10 relative or employee of any counsel or attorney 11 employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or 12 otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. 13 14 15 LYDIA WEISS 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting [& - 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801] 138:18 139:12 139:19 142:16 142:16 145:18 145:19,20 147:7,16 150:10 156:7 160:20 167:11 185:6 220:2 221:5 223:9,10 223:22 224:12 225:20 227:7 231:19 234:14 235:1 240:12 240:16 241:6 4000 72:9 4:34 240:3 4:35 239:22 4:38 244:1,3 4a 70:15 72:13 86:19 88:5 89:3,19,21 91:7 92:4,16 94:17 95:5,13 97:6,8 104:10 104:17 105:2 156:7 185:6 220:2 227:3 230:13,13 240:13 241:6 4b 220:2 224:13 225:6 225:21 227:8 229:1 230:1,2 230:14,14,21 235:9 240:13 240:15 241:6 241:13 October 24, 2023 Page 3 5 5 37:19 55:12 70:12 71:6 103:20 104:11 117:17 119:7 150:10 156:7 160:17,19 185:7 226:17 232:2 234:14 234:22 235:1 238:16 50 46:7 114:12 142:6 500 30:19 56 217:3 241:7 5a 70:12 103:21 223:14 223:20 225:2 225:22 229:4 236:2,10 238:6 238:16 240:14 5b 70:12 103:21 220:2 236:10 6 6 70:12 71:6 103:22 104:12 117:17,17 118:6 119:7 120:8,14,18 121:9,9,14 122:3,6 123:11 123:19 124:17 127:2,18 128:10,11 129:19 130:6,8 130:12 131:13 133:1,8,13 134:7,12 137:4 138:5,21 139:11,21,22 140:16,17 141:10 142:1 142:15 143:8 143:22,22 144:5 145:15 147:5 150:11 150:14,20 156:7 160:19 185:7 6043314 1:20 60s 209:1 61 5:15 6a 37:19,22 41:7 42:6 43:5 45:3 46:20,21 47:15 49:7,10 50:12,15 51:13 51:18 52:2 55:12 118:4,16 119:13 120:8,9 121:7 122:3,7 123:11,19 124:6,7 128:8 129:21 140:18 141:3,10,20 143:22 144:6 150:12 6b 38:9 46:20 49:11 55:13 121:8 7 7 65:1 70:12 71:6 103:22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 104:12 118:16 119:14 137:6 138:15 150:13 156:7 157:2,16 158:3,6 160:10 164:9 166:1,10 166:16,17 167:1,18 169:1 169:10,11,12 170:9,13 172:3 173:5,8 174:2 174:7,22 177:21 178:22 180:12,18 185:8,10 186:22 187:19 189:7,12,15,20 190:5,7,12,19 191:10 195:15 197:17 198:9 198:14 200:22 203:3 206:8 207:13 208:9 213:16 70s 209:1 7a 70:12 104:1 195:20 197:17 198:14 199:17 201:3 203:3 206:8 207:19 213:16 8 8 5:3 70:13 71:6 104:1,13 156:15 185:9 801 1:10 Meeting [85 - actually] 85 192:12 8a 71:6 89:19 104:13 9 9 70:13 71:12 103:16 104:1 104:14 243:17 9th 1:10 20:10 a a&m 216:12 a.m. 1:6 7:12 243:17 ability 26:8 34:2,3 245:10 246:7 abject 79:9 ablaze 31:17 able 22:10 24:5 34:21 52:20 66:20 78:6 109:18 126:2 127:1 151:18 159:12 162:7 169:9 203:15 204:3 210:14 215:3 243:6 abolition 27:21 above 70:16 abroad 115:9 216:17 absolutely 74:5 86:16 119:6 135:17 201:12 abundant 193:19 academia 193:22 October 24, 2023 Page 4 academic 16:12 accept 109:21 109:22 110:2,9 112:17 214:9 214:10 241:12 acceptable 138:20 181:10 225:14 accepted 67:18 68:22 accepting 234:21 access 193:3,11 193:13 accessible 153:7 acclaim 115:1 accommodate 26:8 accompanied 109:15 accomplish 34:11 35:2 92:21 93:1 accomplished 35:1 199:20 accomplishes 174:3 182:18 accomplishm... 27:17,20 181:7 181:12 182:14 accordance 27:2 accuracy 73:15 accurate 35:21 74:16 124:19 245:9 246:5 accurately 51:19 137:1 180:12 196:14 accuse 76:6 achieved 21:2 achievement 168:9 217:22 achieving 42:12 136:20 acknowledged 122:14 act 26:19 61:19 66:1 92:14 93:7 114:16 acted 162:11 action 34:22 91:20 111:12 134:9 136:22 137:7,11 171:12,19 172:13 221:6 222:9,21 223:12,20,21 225:10,15,20 226:9 227:13 231:13 235:2 245:12,16 246:8,12 active 16:7 24:5 115:8 128:19 158:9 192:19 229:21 230:4,12 actively 64:14 137:19 activism 29:13 30:17 115:4 118:14 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 activist 31:17 48:9 114:1 116:3 118:4 119:12 121:5 121:11,19 123:14 124:5 127:1,4,4,7,8 128:11,18 139:6,8 140:8 141:19 148:14 149:4,7 activists 29:12 30:12 37:16 44:18 115:7 128:20 activities 24:21 146:20 147:2 156:4 173:1 acts 108:11 actual 72:7 144:13 actually 23:20 24:15 40:10 41:7 42:11,16 45:15 50:2 58:5 66:16 67:16 75:15 76:7,8 77:19 85:13 90:14 96:16 97:3 99:3 110:13,15 119:11 124:12 126:12 127:1 133:19 134:5,9 135:19 143:15 145:2 147:6 160:20 162:18 164:7 174:19 Meeting [actually - alfen] 174:20 208:9 209:15 212:1 232:18 234:16 235:3 240:3 adams 217:13 add 19:10 33:6 46:10 76:4 93:12 100:1,8 100:13 106:18 141:2 145:7 149:4 204:13 212:2 221:8 229:8 236:9 added 86:4 134:8 addition 126:3 136:9 150:21 193:14 additional 36:22 37:17 40:4,6 50:18 70:4 84:8 100:5 117:19 119:19 131:14 144:7 156:9 169:21 210:18 219:9 234:3 additionally 16:7 38:17 70:18 71:9 81:17 161:21 address 19:19 93:4 181:1 addressed 14:6 addressing 51:12 231:21 adds 141:3 207:3 October 24, 2023 Page 5 adjourned 243:22 adjust 53:11 adjusted 51:13 adjustments 51:2 123:10 133:14 administer 15:17 administering 16:21 administration 68:18 admit 132:18 admittedly 174:14 ado 210:17 adopt 105:17 232:9 adult 153:13 158:12,17 adults 164:14 advancement 114:2 advancing 115:13 advantage 230:21 advise 45:15 advisor 16:13 30:7 advisory 7:11 16:1 18:10 217:20 advocacy 62:1 71:8 153:9 advocate 64:7 145:14 223:19 advocated 48:12 advocating 28:22 115:14 183:10 aesthetic 66:13 affairs 2:6 3:15 3:17 12:5,12 12:13 affect 236:17 affected 155:8 affectionately 161:1 afraid 67:6 207:7 african 114:8 115:19 116:5 177:9 afternoon 59:18,19,21 66:15,19 240:5 age 23:5 31:10 63:9 64:14 65:2 118:11 146:19 167:16 170:6 217:6,6 agenda 5:2 6:2 9:20 58:6 192:1 215:9 aggression 64:6 aggressive 64:2 agnes 152:21 ago 36:16 66:17,21 76:6 101:12 agree 39:5,7 45:7 50:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 88:7 91:17 92:4 131:17,19 133:1,4 135:7 136:17 143:17 169:21 170:22 171:5 174:18 175:2 186:2 202:9 205:1 220:19 221:13 221:15 223:4 224:11,19 225:17 229:5 238:17 agreed 36:8 80:7 173:2 236:3 agreement 140:18 ah 145:1 172:9 ahead 64:22 67:14 91:7 106:4 157:1 185:22 192:21 aimed 97:2 airborne 77:20 78:1 aircraft 62:9 alfen 3:8 9:13 9:15 14:18,18 39:22 40:1,2 41:3 57:3,3 60:20,21 71:20 71:21 72:12,18 84:4,6 85:15 85:17 88:3,4 105:13,14 108:15,16 127:10,11 Meeting [alfen - appreciate] 128:5,6 132:12 132:14 156:21 156:22 169:16 169:18 187:22 188:1 205:5,6 206:1 214:2,2 214:8,10 224:3 224:5 alive 155:9 allan 4:7 13:13 194:7,11 206:17,17 211:5,7,7,12 211:16,18 allegiance 17:15,17 allied 29:20 allow 19:9 149:5 175:14 allowing 33:2 allyship 36:22 alpha 35:8,9 36:2,3 114:4 althea 6:8 14:1 14:2 215:14,16 217:11 218:6,8 218:10,18 219:6 amateur 217:6 amazing 32:20 142:7 155:10 amazingly 33:17 amended 135:6 amendment 109:2,9,14,20 110:4,5,13 112:18 214:6 October 24, 2023 Page 6 214:12,15 amendments 112:21 america 31:20 116:10 154:9 156:11 174:5 175:4 178:11 178:12 181:11 182:7,8 194:3 205:14,19 208:22 218:7 american 2:12 5:11,17,20 6:4 6:7 8:18 10:5 13:3,7,11,14 13:21 14:2 15:9 17:1 18:22 19:2,3 20:8 22:1,8 25:17 26:3,7 26:11,22 27:4 27:7 28:18 31:8 57:18,21 75:9 79:6,7 81:4 113:12,15 115:19 116:6 142:9 152:6 153:18 155:5,9 177:2,3,9,9,9 177:10,10 179:2 180:2 183:1,4 192:2 215:13 217:22 228:9 americans 16:9 20:3 114:9 157:7,19 164:15 227:21 amid 152:16 amos 4:15 10:16 amount 55:19 114:10 amounts 183:5 analyze 73:14 ancestors 31:9 ancestral 31:11 ancillary 111:14 andrea 30:8 angela 115:18 angelou 230:6 angles 225:19 angry 33:16 animated 199:6 annie 215:17 announced 193:10 annual 243:18 answer 60:4 75:1,17 81:19 194:14 answered 123:2 anti 62:9 anybody 75:4 136:19 anymore 204:12 anyone's 98:10 anyway 68:11 apex 171:18 apologize 54:20 183:13 197:18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 app 67:16 apparently 75:7,9,12 appeal 171:6 231:16 appealing 135:11 160:15 171:9 199:10 224:8 appeals 87:3 171:20 225:12 appear 216:21 appearance 35:11 166:10 appearing 231:3 appears 73:16 124:17 166:22 239:1 applicant 23:21 applied 241:13 applying 23:19 appointed 15:8 29:9 30:5 63:9 appointment 19:22 appraisal 67:1 appreciate 18:21 22:14 24:9 32:17 37:10 43:3 49:6,7 53:21 58:2 71:3 76:18 79:21 83:7 86:3 90:11 92:2,16 101:8,17 Meeting [appreciate - athleticism] 109:18 112:11 113:10 145:14 147:18 151:17 151:20 155:12 159:19 174:10 180:15 183:18 186:8 187:10 191:9,18 210:2 210:12,14 215:2 219:2 228:6 231:10 appreciated 70:9 142:15 148:9 226:21 234:12 appreciates 158:6 appreciation 66:9 109:9 approach 42:1 140:22 appropriate 67:2 130:5,7 139:7 196:10 219:18 220:22 221:17 230:20 appropriaten... 73:15 approval 5:4 9:21 14:9,16 approve 14:14 approved 27:2 approximately 7:14 192:12 april 3:10 5:5 9:22 11:4 14:11 19:15 26:13 61:11 65:1 71:15 73:1 76:1 80:4 87:18 119:3,21 120:7 123:8 124:12 126:19 161:13 172:16 181:4 206:7 232:12 234:10 architectural 198:10 archives 74:22 area 143:10 165:15 areas 81:7 118:10 136:19 137:12 225:9 225:10 arguably 241:5 arguing 134:13 177:12,16 argument 96:9 106:1 107:1 176:14 185:16 208:9 arizona 206:20 arms 33:9 195:5 230:7 army 28:15 62:8,15 63:1 art 44:6 56:4 60:12 71:19 85:8 88:10 105:8 111:19 112:19 120:3 140:11,12 150:17 157:1 165:20 168:4 174:12 181:19 October 24, 2023 Page 7 190:2 193:3 221:12 226:21 art's 122:22 arthur 2:7 8:3 14:15 22:15,16 44:8 72:20 85:9 88:12 110:7,10 111:8 120:4 122:1 150:18 165:21 196:2,3 197:6 198:4,5 214:11 221:11 articles 114:18 144:21 articulated 173:15 artillery 62:9 artist 39:16 145:1 222:19 223:18 232:7 artist's 53:12 106:21,21 artistic 93:10 139:13 207:21 artistically 53:10 94:21 171:20 artists 32:20 49:20 68:16 236:20 arts 2:18 9:5 27:22 37:3 39:6,7 70:6,21 80:5 119:9 156:14 195:9 219:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 asia 216:16,18 asian 177:10 asked 20:11 35:6 144:10 193:4 219:19 asking 38:20 74:3 81:12 105:6 122:10 128:7 aspect 165:6 aspire 233:12 associate 15:11 associated 63:11 69:21 110:16,19 142:18 217:1 association 20:9 114:2,3 217:8,15 assume 16:22 40:18 106:20 assumed 43:15 astronomer 192:6 207:14 astronomers 193:15 astronomical 195:17 astronomy 195:7 athlete 217:1 226:7 athletes 217:21 athletic 215:20 216:3 226:8 athleticism 229:21 Meeting [atlanta - batting] atlanta 163:19 atrocities 62:13 attend 26:9 attendance 20:6 243:15 attended 21:4 22:20 29:1 attendees 2:2 3:2 4:2 30:20 attending 7:4 10:21 59:2 151:15 243:4 attention 21:10 30:4 42:16 44:10 84:14 145:14 185:13 191:9 attorney 245:14 246:10 attracted 143:14 attractive 224:12 audience 22:20 36:19 audiences 29:22 audio 66:16 161:9 245:8 246:3 august 20:10 215:17 authenticity 111:16 author 117:7 authorized 27:8 October 24, 2023 Page 8 avenues 215:22 avowed 201:13 award 66:10 157:6,17 awarded 62:22 awards 61:19 166:12 207:21 aware 74:15 awe 21:9 awful 171:11 awq 177:1 aye 15:1,2 56:8 56:9 57:8,9 113:2,3 151:9 151:10 188:6,7 188:11,19,20 214:17,18 242:20,21 ayes 188:21 b b 3:20,22 5:18 13:6 65:20 113:16,21 116:9,11 117:7 118:9 124:15 124:16,21 125:5,5,6,7 132:17 133:4 136:18 141:12 141:18,21 144:19 149:15 173:22 196:7 back 26:6 46:18 54:22 55:2 58:5 59:22 63:20 86:11 88:2 92:9 103:3,6 103:11 111:17 113:11 118:5 119:4 143:1 149:21 150:2,4 159:1 184:22 198:20 213:7 213:10 218:3 219:2 223:7,7 231:14 233:8 234:5 239:21 240:3,6 241:2 background 26:17 28:13 37:17 61:17 72:13,14,17 78:6 84:8 92:6 97:22 177:18 195:17 backgrounds 28:2 177:3 baden 152:20 baijal 3:14 11:21,22 baker 146:11 balance 45:5 77:14 balanced 92:1 115:3 202:2 balances 45:16 balancing 45:10 198:11 ball 219:7 221:21 222:1,2 222:3 225:2 229:6 236:2,10 ballet 230:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 balls 223:15,15 225:1,4,5,22 232:2 236:4 238:16,17,17 238:19 band 125:1 127:19,20 143:2 bands 127:15 128:8 143:3 banner 37:16 216:19 barack 30:5 barbed 87:1 barnett 124:16 124:21 125:2,4 125:6,22 barricaded 216:1 barrier 216:6 barriers 144:2 based 23:22 25:19 53:16 55:18 56:13 58:14 98:2 100:13 124:18 143:6 147:5 175:18 184:5 186:2,4 213:19 233:19 243:22 basic 33:14 basically 179:7 basis 132:3 184:8 battalion 62:9 batting 140:14 166:1 197:7 208:3 Meeting [battle - boards] battle 34:7 62:22 78:7,8 78:19 79:2 109:16 110:17 110:18 111:2,6 112:3 battled 114:6 bear 17:14,16 68:2 beat 123:1 beating 191:13 beautiful 35:22 45:8 91:22 133:21 146:14 220:18 221:5 235:10,16,16 243:9 beautifully 32:21 beauty 51:21 beaver 166:4 began 115:4 216:13 beginning 26:22 behalf 19:11 66:8 69:12 138:8 believe 9:19 10:7 35:8 41:13 67:8 107:9,12 133:2 144:22 178:7 189:19 197:13 206:12,15,22 233:20 234:22 234:22 October 24, 2023 Page 9 believed 34:6 91:6 bell 215:17 beloved 20:4 beneath 91:21 benefit 24:2 38:21 81:20 132:7 162:1 197:2 220:12 benefiting 116:6 benefits 23:12 23:13,22 24:4 benjamin 3:19 5:14 10:3 12:21 13:1 26:5 58:8 61:9 61:18,19 62:3 65:20 70:2 102:18 berell 61:18 berkeley 217:19 bernstein 2:7 8:3,5 14:15,16 22:15,16,17 44:7,8,9 56:4,4 60:12,13 72:20 72:21 73:3 75:6,22 85:9 85:10,18 86:1 88:11,12 105:8 105:8 110:3,7 110:10 111:8,9 111:19,19 112:17,19 120:4,5 121:21 122:1,19 140:12,12 150:18,19 165:21,22 166:20 172:5 189:4,22 190:2 191:13 196:3,4 196:18 197:7 198:5,6 214:5 214:11,11 221:12,12 best 33:22 35:9 38:16 41:7 70:8 133:2,8 162:15 200:10 202:3 219:13 231:17 234:12 245:10 246:6 better 51:4 68:4 76:2 94:22 138:6 139:2 140:18 153:9 154:5 158:6 162:20 166:11 178:16 225:7,12,20 beyond 21:12 29:15 bias 88:21 bicentennial 27:13 big 168:15 221:19,22 biggest 63:11 bind 174:1 bipartisan 27:6 bird 230:7 birth 27:14 96:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 birthday 31:4 34:18 birthplace 4:4 13:10 154:14 bit 33:6 40:15 51:4 74:1 92:21 93:3 102:21 124:15 127:17 133:8 134:6,8,13 137:16,21 140:3 144:17 148:6,7,7 160:22 165:9 165:13 166:9 171:5 174:1 175:3 203:18 207:4 219:22 225:15 226:12 226:13 231:11 bitter 33:16 black 107:11 115:7,11,16 200:20 216:7 216:20,22 217:7,14,21 218:4 230:16 blazed 231:4 blessed 229:10 blew 94:19 blind 29:10 block 182:9 blow 94:10 blows 162:14 boarding 152:13 boards 29:20 Meeting [bodies - brown] bodies 195:13 body 38:1 51:19 166:13 bolder 202:1 boneeza 11:18 boneza 3:12 11:18,19 73:13 bonnie 217:17 booker 115:5 borer 3:4 11:13 11:14 206:22 207:2 born 28:14 33:7 34:1 62:3 152:10 215:16 bothered 230:22 bottom 77:2 92:14 165:10 220:22 bought 76:8 boundaries 193:21 boy 152:20,22 brag 110:22 bragg 28:15 brainer 205:1 branch 62:15 branches 70:17 71:1,7 80:13 bravery 34:6 breadth 90:15 break 54:16 149:19 239:19 breaking 23:11 77:12 140:2 216:5 217:8 October 24, 2023 Page 10 brendan 3:15 12:11 brick 87:3 brief 18:18 35:1 54:12 147:15 148:12 149:19 186:17 188:3 239:19 briefly 86:20 178:21 bright 83:15 brighten 33:21 brilliant 28:17 bring 143:21 232:19 bringing 31:11 198:13 brings 227:21 broach 122:7,7 122:11,13,17 143:7 145:13 broaches 122:16 broad 24:6 137:17 broadening 30:22 broken 99:14 bronze 78:8 111:1,3 brother 4:12 13:20 32:14 126:7 brought 30:4 brown 1:4 2:3 7:7,8,10 8:6,10 8:12,14,17,20 9:1,4,7,10,13 9:16,16 10:7 10:10,19 11:4 11:7,10,13,15 11:18,21 12:1 12:4,8,11,15 12:18 14:17,20 15:3 16:2 19:9 20:17,20 21:17 22:13 23:7 25:11 38:10 39:21 40:1 41:5,15 42:20 43:2,8 44:6,21 45:21 46:1 47:16,17 49:14 49:15 51:7 53:1,1,14,17 54:2,13,15,18 54:20 55:1,16 55:22 56:3,5 56:10,21,22 57:2,5,10 58:3 58:9 59:2,19 59:21,22 60:7 60:11,14,16,18 60:20,22 61:2 61:4,6,7 71:14 71:14 75:22 76:12 77:16,17 79:20 80:15 81:13 82:1 84:2,4 85:4,13 85:16,20 86:7 86:16 88:1,9 89:7,9,22 91:12 92:17 94:3 95:15 97:16,17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 100:11 101:20 102:16 103:4 103:10,11 104:18 105:3,6 105:10 106:11 107:4,7 108:19 109:1,4 110:1 110:5,10,12,12 112:14,15,20 113:4 118:18 118:19 119:2 119:15,18 120:2 122:20 123:3,6 124:9 125:16,18 126:20 127:9 129:10,10 130:9,13 131:1 131:8,14 132:1 132:12 133:11 133:16 134:16 136:13 138:12 139:15 140:10 141:5,7 142:2 143:11,12 147:10,14 148:9,11,17 149:8,13 150:3 150:3,16 151:3 151:5,11 152:2 152:4 156:18 157:9,21,22 158:20,21 159:20 161:4,8 161:16 163:9 164:1,19 165:19 167:2,4 168:1,2 169:14 Meeting [brown - care] 169:16 170:18 172:15 173:12 174:9 175:12 178:1,7,17 180:20,21 183:17 184:4 184:16,21,22 185:12,22 186:7,15,18,19 187:3,6,9,15 187:20 188:2 188:12,15,17 188:20 189:8 189:13,16 190:9,18,22 191:1,3,8,15 195:21 196:19 197:9,10,22 198:3,15 200:5 201:15,19 202:5 203:7,9 204:6 205:3,5 206:4,21 207:22 209:3 210:22 211:6 212:11,20,22 213:3,9,9,19 214:3,9,13,19 215:11 220:4 221:10 222:4,6 222:14 224:1,3 224:17 226:1 227:14 229:13 231:7 232:14 234:9 235:20 236:13 237:6 237:22 238:3 239:11 240:4,5 October 24, 2023 Page 11 240:6,22 241:8 241:12,16 242:17 243:10 browning 4:3 13:9 154:13,17 155:4 157:5,11 157:15 158:11 158:15 159:7 160:4,19 bubble 201:7 build 156:3 building 36:22 153:3 built 52:21 bulge 79:2 bunch 178:4 burned 114:18 146:10 business 14:8 15:5 243:12 businesswom... 113:22 bust 136:21 button 73:21 buy 178:4 buzzard 78:3 c c 2:1 3:1 4:1 5:1 6:1 7:1 california 35:4 217:18 call 5:3,3 7:10 8:2 12:20 44:10 45:4 57:16 59:10 60:1 66:17,21 78:3 84:14 96:17 126:8 160:7 192:21 241:2 called 11:1 63:11 173:4 calling 32:13 38:22,22 81:20 132:8 162:2 197:2 220:13 cam 30:10 camp 30:11,15 30:20 153:19 campaigns 62:11 78:10,21 110:16,19 camping 171:14 camps 62:19 campus 16:16 candidate 5:10 5:13,16,19 6:3 6:6 10:2,4 19:13 26:2,7 26:11,15 27:12 28:3,8,12 32:4 35:7 36:7,17 36:18 38:8,9 54:4 57:17 61:9,14 69:19 70:14 71:13 99:22 113:12 113:14,19 117:10,16,17 118:17 119:14 149:15 152:6 154:6 155:14 156:6,15,17 184:9 185:15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 192:2 194:11 194:18 212:14 215:13 218:15 219:5,5 220:3 canvas 183:9 capable 183:4 capazzola 16:20 capozzola 2:11 8:17,19 10:1 15:7,8,22 16:3 17:5,10,16,21 18:5,9,14,16 18:18 47:19,20 60:18,19 80:2 80:3,11 95:17 95:18 124:11 125:15 142:4,5 173:14 208:2 231:9 234:7,10 captivated 29:22 captivating 40:7 capture 32:21 134:12 147:1 captured 43:16 137:7,11 captures 51:19 70:10 133:3 134:12 137:1 219:14 card 101:13 care 34:2 116:15 152:4 180:14,16 194:9 218:13 Meeting [cared - characteristics] cared 163:4 career 64:16 84:9 115:3 118:14 147:1 192:16 careful 53:10 109:13 caribbean 216:11 carolina 28:16 29:5,9,9 215:19 carries 56:11 57:12 113:5 151:12 186:22 186:22 214:20 221:7 carry 90:21 case 49:16 107:16 159:16 173:19 197:15 233:18 cases 69:4 catalyst 34:6 catch 158:9 catches 200:12 catching 224:14 226:18 caucus 27:6 cause 63:21 98:6 caused 33:9,10 causes 34:5 128:20 caution 46:16 46:17 ccac 1:1 2:4,6 2:20 5:7 7:3,15 9:18 10:1,12 12:6,9 14:9 15:7 16:22 19:6,11,15,18 19:21 20:1,7 20:11,17 21:5 21:22 22:12 23:10,13,22 25:4,13,19 36:9 55:4 59:20 60:2 69:15 75:20 103:12 150:6 175:17 232:17 241:2 243:13 ccac.gov. 19:19 celebrated 209:9 celestial 195:13 celia 230:9 cell 44:15 170:6 centennial 16:8 center 42:4 159:5 centered 81:10 central 37:22 cents 127:14,16 128:8 129:5 136:3 139:3 141:15,17 148:22 223:6 224:10 century 48:1 48:11 96:12 certain 88:21 99:15 199:6 224:14 October 24, 2023 Page 12 certainly 36:11 52:14 69:15 96:6 97:8 99:11 219:1 certificate 245:1 246:1 certificates 111:16 certify 245:4 246:2 cetera 79:3,3 175:19 cfa 56:18 67:9 117:22 166:16 219:15,18 cfa's 56:14 84:11 88:7 chair 5:9 9:18 21:20 43:10 50:10 92:19 94:2 133:17 134:15 161:6 164:3 185:20 229:15 231:6 236:6 237:21 241:8 chairman 36:8 53:4 107:3 112:9 118:18 118:22 134:18 163:11 173:11 175:11 189:22 198:18 227:16 chairperson 2:4 challenge 96:22,22 175:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 challenged 50:15 challenges 41:21 48:14 83:17 174:16 182:21 192:19 challenging 198:8 200:2 champion 192:20 216:9 219:10 231:1 championed 22:22 championship 216:11 228:12 championships 217:5 chance 44:15 95:20 change 29:15 42:5,12 45:16 58:6 99:17 106:2 121:11 125:13 130:1,8 136:20 175:20 178:8 changed 106:7 114:15 121:4 155:6 changes 69:7 150:20 changing 52:7 56:15 character 192:14 characteristics 36:2 Meeting [characterization - coin] characterizati... 138:7 charlotte 32:14 charlottesville 145:22 chat 197:14 check 65:5 cheerful 33:18 40:7 chicago 125:4 chief 3:10 11:4 26:13 39:9 51:5 61:12 63:10 child 209:19 215:20 childless 152:17 children 115:14 158:9 chime 126:8 choice 35:8 43:15 69:1,7 80:19 86:2,18 89:19 94:11 95:2 121:3,8 124:15 136:10 138:17 139:2 145:19,20 165:3 167:10 211:20 235:13 239:9 243:9 choices 50:16 92:20 94:7 choose 79:18 choosing 154:18 chose 160:8 chris 16:7 47:18,20 80:3 95:16,18 124:10 142:3,5 173:13 175:2 208:1 231:8 234:5 christopher 2:11 8:17 10:1 15:7,22 60:18 chronic 33:14 circle 140:2 circular 226:22 circulated 207:8 237:10 circulates 142:8 circulating 26:18 48:14 49:12 183:6 242:3,6 circulation 46:3 citizen's 18:10 citizens 7:11 16:1 25:17 city 62:6 215:20 216:14 civic 154:4 civil 27:21 113:22 115:6 116:3 117:20 118:2,3 119:12 121:5,10,17,18 123:14 127:4,8 128:11,17,21 134:1 136:1 October 24, 2023 Page 13 139:6,7 140:7 141:19 142:12 148:16 149:4,7 civilization 79:17 clarification 121:22 130:15 197:19 clarity 110:15 classic 90:2 clean 163:3 167:14 208:3 cleaner 169:6 clear 41:17 94:11 110:3 120:7 169:5 170:8 182:17 189:5 192:10 207:6 213:14 213:17 clearly 35:19 93:2 101:2 180:9 clever 134:4,6 140:22 climbing 171:17 close 55:13 185:18 238:22 closed 7:5 235:5 closely 73:12 126:13 160:10 240:16 closer 90:7 102:22 134:3,4 148:4,6 239:2 240:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 closest 238:6 closing 35:11 clothing 35:11 club 114:4,5 clubs 115:7 clutter 143:9 cluttered 96:8 167:20 clutters 135:2 coin 4:15 10:16 10:18 22:9,9 26:19 44:15 46:3 47:14,21 48:14 49:12 50:2 96:8 98:14 110:14 129:13 136:22 138:16 164:18 165:2 166:10 167:21 168:17 168:20 170:5 170:11,12 173:16 176:6,8 176:18 177:15 177:19 178:11 179:20,22 181:3,16 183:2 202:9 203:15 204:16,17,18 204:20 207:8,8 208:8,12,18 222:21,22 223:1,22 225:8 226:22 227:6 228:6 229:3,22 230:11 233:22 235:11,12 237:10,10 Meeting [coinage - communicate] coinage 7:11 16:1 18:10 coinnews 4:16 coins 17:3 50:1 183:6,6 204:14 209:8 211:14 211:19 230:4 238:7 242:3 collar 102:13 colleagues 25:13 99:20 143:13 174:18 175:19 177:14 181:3 183:19 185:12 208:5 209:3 210:14 212:18 231:10 232:14 239:13 243:11 collect 22:10 collectible 26:19 collecting 21:14 collector 235:12 collectors 21:3 21:10 23:17 24:6,8,12 25:5 college 142:19 collision 201:1 color 28:17 107:14 216:5 217:12 colored 114:2,4 colorful 205:8 210:3 colorfully 208:15 columbia 245:19 combination 111:3 229:17 combined 108:9 240:21 come 48:15 58:5 86:10 97:12 103:3 107:10 117:4,8 165:7 178:5 190:20 219:2 233:8 234:5,6 239:15 comes 122:13 141:17 171:15 172:4 179:10 230:2 comfortable 112:1,7 coming 65:9 79:7 140:3,13 191:17 223:13 223:16 232:20 232:21 242:8 commanded 153:20 commandment 93:13 106:18 commemorat... 78:12 commemorat... 168:10 183:1,6 commend 49:20 97:19 October 24, 2023 Page 14 comment 37:11 39:14 51:1,6 52:1 53:6 94:5 100:17 101:8 106:16 145:18 178:3 comments 5:9 14:12 38:17,19 41:12 43:3 48:22 50:18 53:15,20,22 54:2 58:14 81:14 82:4,18 86:19 87:18 93:20 100:5 106:7 108:19 109:6 116:21 131:14 132:4,7 143:13 147:12 147:16 148:10 161:5,17,20 169:21 175:10 175:15,18 176:1 181:18 182:10 184:2,3 184:5 196:20 197:1 210:18 210:19 211:1 211:13,14,20 231:10 234:3 commission 29:10 37:3 39:6,7 70:6,21 80:5 119:9 156:13 195:8 219:12 commissioned 160:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 commitment 19:4 31:18 96:1,10 committed 63:7 115:13 144:4 committee 7:11 8:1 14:8 16:1 18:10,21 23:6 30:6 36:12,15 38:11,12 46:2 50:22 54:3 55:17 71:16,17 80:1 81:14 94:6 100:4 101:22 102:17 108:5 116:16 117:3,13 118:20 121:13 129:12 149:14 154:16 156:20 172:18 184:8 194:10,14,20 196:1 211:2,3 218:14 219:1 220:5 236:16 243:16 committees 193:18 common 27:9 31:21 65:16,19 65:22 116:10 154:9 194:4 218:8 communicate 22:5 53:5 98:1 98:2,18 233:10 233:16 Meeting [communicating - considerable] communicati... 38:2 98:13 communicati... 3:18 12:16 communities 154:5 229:9 community 19:18 20:7 21:14 25:21 30:3 45:15 61:21 116:7 compassion 28:19 compassionate 31:17 38:4 compelled 64:17 compelling 42:7 91:4 132:17 137:13 179:4,8 194:21 201:9 202:21 compellingly 137:7 compensation 63:16 compete 216:7 competition 231:3 240:10 competitions 216:15 231:4 competitive 239:5 complete 39:9 78:13 149:11 175:6 completed 107:4 220:11 completely 100:21 220:19 completes 220:21 complicate 46:19 complicated 165:15 173:19 complicit 63:14 complimentary 77:21 comply 123:18 component 81:19 composed 27:11 composition 202:19 compromise 127:6 128:16 computer 66:18 188:11 concentration 62:19 concern 141:11 177:17 205:12 concerned 182:7 concerning 88:13 117:7 concerns 169:22 178:22 201:3 205:8 208:14 231:16 conclude 138:21 concluded 57:15 151:13 October 24, 2023 Page 15 215:1 243:3 244:2 concludes 38:9 71:13 118:17 156:16 220:2 conclusions 64:10 condense 101:16 condition 33:8 114:8 conditions 33:15 conference 29:2 193:18 conferences 192:21 confess 143:14 174:11 210:4 232:14 233:18 confidence 22:1 39:9 confident 43:21 confidently 219:8 confirm 10:21 120:12 121:13 206:16 confirmed 148:20 192:11 conflict 64:10 64:20 confronted 115:9 confusion 142:22 169:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 congenital 28:21 33:7 congratulatio... 18:9,15 19:10 congress 66:1 92:14 congressional 5:14 10:3 12:21 26:5 58:8 61:10,15 61:18,19 66:10 92:22 95:20 102:5,10,19 111:15 229:19 connected 118:14 142:20 connecting 30:16 67:16 87:17 connection 24:11 25:1,7,8 44:13 65:6 81:5 82:14 connectivity 67:3 68:20 cons 131:4 conscience 97:14 consensus 131:22 conservative 92:21 229:20 consider 26:4 26:10 37:4 56:13 93:14 96:9 242:2 considerable 114:10 Meeting [consideration - court] consideration 26:1,6 43:14 81:16 87:9 97:12 99:19 113:11 132:5 133:20 156:16 161:19 196:22 220:8 243:18 considerations 38:15 81:14 130:1 considering 146:7 consistent 39:18 consistently 41:21,22 constant 33:14 constitution 17:8,11 consultation 27:3 cont'd 3:1,2 4:1 4:2 6:1 contemplates 195:11 contest 200:9 context 43:22 99:15 112:11 200:12 contexts 99:15 99:16 contextualizes 162:16 continual 91:1 continue 129:16 162:9 163:1 233:15 October 24, 2023 Page 16 continued 29:16 49:17 216:14 continues 90:19 162:10 162:17 179:21 180:5 continuing 26:22 84:20 90:21 162:13 180:16 183:13 continuity 90:16 156:1 contrast 225:7 225:9,13 229:1 229:4 235:1,11 237:9,11 239:8 242:2,4,8 contribute 33:2 contributed 64:4 contributions 27:17,19 48:17 151:16 181:7 181:13 control 52:5 convention 22:19 conversation 56:6 105:11 113:10 242:18 243:20 conversations 47:22 196:13 convey 48:16 180:13 conveyed 46:5 228:14 conveying 142:11 conviction 64:8 convictions 30:2 convince 140:17 cookies 178:5 copy 145:2 cords 15:20 cornerstone 153:16 corporate 3:18 12:16 correct 85:11 85:20 93:17,19 106:10 112:13 112:14,16 126:17 correction 58:6 correctly 141:16 cosmos 195:11 199:14 200:13 203:16 costello 2:21 12:1,3 40:20 40:22 50:20 51:1 72:4,5,6 72:16,16,19 93:5,18,18 100:7,9 102:7 102:8,12 123:7 123:20,20 124:4 127:21 127:21 129:9 149:3 184:3 203:11,12,19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 203:19 205:21 210:21 237:12 237:14 242:7 242:12 cotton 215:18 council 217:20 counsel 2:19,19 12:9,9 29:11 55:3 103:12 245:11,14 246:7,10 counselor 150:5 counter 182:15 country 29:21 83:17,22 155:7 163:22 181:21 couple 36:16 70:22 71:22 96:15 132:19 172:17 175:14 224:7 228:17 courageous 132:17 235:4,5 courageously 117:18 course 63:7 66:8 67:10 68:16 96:3 97:11 117:3 135:3,20 136:6 149:1 170:9 177:6,12 196:13 205:10 217:9 238:13 courses 15:14 court 38:22 52:13 59:14 Meeting [court - definitely] 62:16 63:5,12 64:5 81:12,20 103:8 132:8 155:1 157:10 162:1 197:2 219:8 220:12 cousin 14:1 218:10 cover 137:17 covered 137:12 137:12 covers 216:21 created 29:12 45:14 62:15 101:11 169:4 creates 77:13 139:5 creating 30:14 creative 34:16 42:7 96:19 137:16 227:9 creatively 227:2 creativity 232:7 credit 144:6 crime 64:6 crimes 62:15 62:18 63:6,7 63:13,13 64:3 64:3,4 criminal 62:1 63:14 64:5,8 66:2 81:12 crip 30:10 critical 69:3 critically 100:18 October 24, 2023 Page 17 criticism 100:17 114:10 crowd 51:12 228:21 crowded 171:5 177:13,15 179:15 cruelty 114:17 cruz 230:9 culture 115:20 curated 16:9 curator 3:9 9:14 31:6 115:18 curators 28:4 curious 78:5,9 102:3 122:4,8 current 16:14 52:4,6 currently 16:12 curves 209:1 cut 31:5 193:7 d d 7:1 78:22 d.c. 29:3 dad 32:11 75:16 76:5 101:3,11 204:9 dad's 101:15 daddy 209:20 209:22 daisy 152:13 172:5,6 dancing 230:10 daniel 3:22 13:5 116:14 145:8 146:17 149:9 151:15 215:17 dark 192:8 194:4 199:21 201:5 205:14 205:17 darla 2:17 9:4 44:22 45:1 53:5 60:3 91:14,15 139:16,17 142:17 164:20 164:21 202:6,7 220:15,16 221:13 224:11 data 192:16 date 77:2 159:8 dates 91:21 96:8 daughter 132:22 163:20 164:9 daughters 174:13 199:5 dave 212:5,6 david 4:5,12 13:12,19 32:14 194:7,11,12 day 7:13,13 15:19 33:13,21 38:3 62:4 68:21 78:22 90:19 215:7 216:1 243:12 days 35:3 66:21 235:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 dc 1:11 deal 58:7 123:14 132:18 141:15 243:6 dean 15:11 death 34:20 63:22 96:7 debate 56:6 57:6 decade 115:2 decades 88:16 decent 203:18 decide 196:6 decided 146:17 196:9 decision 44:16 91:18 92:4 239:15 decisions 218:20 declined 31:3 dedication 156:2 deep 66:9 68:12 69:12,12 deeper 29:14 deeply 34:2,20 115:13 defeat 99:16 defend 17:8,11 182:1 defer 101:14 defined 34:3 180:7 definitely 87:21 127:22 135:5 163:12 229:3 Meeting [degree - design] degree 37:7 219:18 deliberation 53:21 69:11 deliberations 25:18 36:13 43:13 69:2 delighted 66:6 delineated 208:15 delivered 29:21 delivers 169:6 demerits 212:1 demystify 22:6 deniss's 95:10 dennis 3:7 9:10 21:18,19 43:9 43:11 55:20,21 61:2 92:18 104:20,21 105:15 107:4 107:18 130:16 130:18 131:10 131:17,19 133:16,18 135:7 137:15 147:13,14 157:21 158:1 164:2,4 173:7 180:20,21 186:2 201:18 201:20 229:14 229:16 232:4 241:10,11,17 denomination 31:22 116:11 127:15,19 129:2 154:11 October 24, 2023 Page 18 194:5 218:9 department 21:22 216:16 dependency 33:13 depending 99:14 depict 97:1 129:2 181:9 depicted 35:11 74:13 80:20 107:13 112:8 118:12 depiction 35:21 74:17 118:9 166:8 206:9 depicts 27:10 36:18 70:2 155:19 156:7 159:9 160:10 deputy 4:13 11:2 15:16,18 describe 202:18 described 150:21 description 36:13 41:18 144:19 155:18 205:8 descriptions 36:9,15 69:20 111:16 117:14 155:16 deserves 47:11 138:6 design 2:21,22 3:3,4,10,12,13 3:14 11:5,8,11 11:15 12:2 22:9,21 24:4,7 26:14 27:11 28:12 32:19 35:8,12,18 36:1,3,3,9,12 36:14,17,18,18 37:1,10,12,12 37:13,15,15,19 37:19,19,20,21 37:22 38:6,9 39:13,20 40:9 40:11,16 41:19 42:2,3,7,8 43:20 44:2,9 44:11,12,17 45:4,14 46:19 50:11 51:18,19 52:6 53:6,11 55:9,9,10,11 55:11,12,12,13 55:14 56:1 61:12 70:2,5,7 70:16,20 71:6 71:6,9,11 76:19 80:8 89:4 95:3 104:11,22 105:2 111:16 112:9 113:12 113:14 117:14 117:16,17,19 118:4,6 119:8 119:14 120:14 121:14 122:14 127:2,13 131:13 133:19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 134:2,11 135:2 135:8,14,18 136:8,11 137:13,17,22 139:1 140:18 143:14 144:6 144:17,19 146:13 147:16 148:3 150:7,8 150:8,9,10,10 150:11,12,12 150:13,14,14 150:20 155:16 155:17,19 156:4,6,7,12 156:15 157:16 160:1 162:15 163:15 164:6 165:17 166:1,2 166:8,15,16,17 167:1,9,11,14 168:7,12,14 169:6 170:16 171:19 172:18 175:18 178:15 178:16,22 179:1,4,18 182:21 185:6,7 185:7,8,9,10 185:10 189:3,9 189:10,20,20 190:4,5,14,19 194:21,22 195:3,4,10,15 195:18,20 200:15,19 201:5,21 203:3 205:13 206:12 Meeting [design - disagreeing] 207:4 213:17 214:1 219:5,6 219:11,13,16 219:20 220:2 221:1,5,14,16 225:2,11,14 226:13 229:16 230:18 235:10 238:20 240:10 240:11,12,15 242:5 design's 179:14 designing 46:13 designs 5:10,13 5:16,19 6:3,6 10:2,4 19:13 26:2,7,11,15 27:16 28:3,8 31:18 32:4 35:7 36:8,10 38:9 39:15,19 41:12 43:14 48:6 49:18 54:4 57:17 61:9,14 65:20 65:22 69:19,21 69:22 70:15 71:13 73:5,14 81:6 94:8,18 97:2,4,19,20 99:4 100:1 102:18 113:19 116:8 117:11 118:17 140:21 145:11 149:15 152:6 154:6 155:14,15 October 24, 2023 Page 19 156:17 158:3 160:2 162:7,13 178:8 179:3 181:6 184:9 185:15 192:2 194:1,11,19 195:14,19 200:16 201:8 201:11,22 202:21 204:14 212:9,14 215:13 218:5 218:15 219:5 220:1,3 226:6 227:2,19 231:19 232:9 233:18 235:16 235:17 239:2 desires 143:18 desk 144:21 despite 83:16 detail 74:16 98:17 100:2 138:16 145:14 167:20 183:3,5 233:17 242:2 details 73:14 73:16 160:8,12 deter 192:19 determination 114:21 133:3 determine 60:2 determined 135:10,21 140:1 199:20 228:19 detract 39:11 develop 153:8 developed 111:14 development 64:1 68:15 73:13 developmental 66:13 68:14 devoted 34:14 153:10 dial 66:17 died 65:1 152:16 difference 120:8 differences 153:7 different 24:11 24:12 76:19 93:6 94:16 99:14 107:13 128:19,20 137:12 146:16 208:20 231:19 236:21 differentiate 76:22 differentiated 205:18 differentiates 107:15 differently 168:10 223:19 difficult 161:10 227:5 233:5 238:15 digital 16:18 16:18 245:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 246:3 dignified 83:13 dignity 218:1 dilemma 173:15 diluted 168:18 direct 44:13 87:16 direction 152:18 233:19 directly 95:1 212:19 director 2:5 4:3 4:13 11:2 12:4 13:9 15:16,18 21:8,12,16 154:13 disabilities 29:2 30:7,12 47:11 48:12 disability 28:19 28:22 29:4,12 29:12,13,17 30:10,12 31:2 31:15,17 35:17 37:1,16,18 38:5,6 43:22 47:1 48:1,8,9 49:9 50:5,13 56:15 disabled 28:16 30:16 disadvantage 74:1 140:13 disagree 209:5 209:14 disagreeing 111:10 Meeting [disagreement - dr] disagreement 130:22 disappearing 207:16 disappointed 203:4 disapprove 15:3 discerned 46:5 discharge 18:3 18:6 discharged 63:1 discomfort 108:5 discoveries 199:14 discovery 192:8 210:6,7 210:9 discuss 57:17 106:3 130:8 133:8 discussed 133:15 140:7 238:18 discussing 123:22 discussion 5:10 5:13,16,19 6:3 6:6 10:2,4 21:5 38:21 57:6,15 59:4,6 94:1 100:19 101:21 105:11,20 129:16 130:19 130:21 131:2,3 131:11 151:7 October 24, 2023 Page 20 151:13,16 167:5 186:16 186:17 188:2,4 191:12 214:3 214:14,22 241:17 242:14 242:18 243:3 discussions 21:4 57:13 112:22 dislocated 33:11 display 105:3,7 displayed 35:18 228:11 disposition 210:10 disputes 64:11 dissolved 152:15 distant 24:13 distinct 48:10 distinction 205:20 distinguished 86:3 distinguishing 77:4 distracting 236:4 district 245:19 disturbed 224:22 disturbs 223:8 223:14 dive 102:12 diverse 28:2 156:4 diversity 23:21 97:20 division 31:7 divorce 152:16 doctor 15:17 126:15 document 120:8 documentary 30:9,14 documented 62:18 doing 17:2 19:7 85:13 86:9 96:19 129:8,8 129:12 137:7,8 138:7,9 144:1 161:13 162:7 208:6,8 211:22 226:7 241:4 dollar 127:18 128:10 129:4 148:21 182:22 183:1 dollars 26:21 domestic 17:9 17:13 dominated 193:22 dominates 222:12 don 3:19 12:22 65:4,8 66:3,5 67:4,5 73:10 76:14,16 82:3 82:8 84:7 91:16 145:6 218:10 238:2,4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 donald 3:5 9:7 13:22 20:14 39:3,4 40:9 53:2,3 59:11 60:14 65:17 130:3,13 133:12 141:1 159:21 168:3 169:22 173:15 182:12 204:7 222:15 224:11 224:20 226:6 donald's 143:1 door 19:21 doors 235:5 doubles 217:4 doubt 235:3 douglass 115:5 dove 80:18 81:10 87:16 90:20 94:20,21 95:3 dove's 95:1 dr 1:4 2:3,8,11 3:8 4:5,6,7 6:5 7:7,8,10 8:6,6 8:8,10,10,12 8:14,17,17,19 8:20 9:1,4,7,10 9:13,13,15,16 10:1,6,7,7,9,10 10:19 11:4,7 11:10,13,15,18 11:21 12:1,4,8 12:11,15,18 13:13,14 14:17 14:18,20 15:3 15:7,8,22 16:2 Meeting [dr - driving] 16:3,20 17:5 17:10,16,21 18:5,9,14,16 18:18 19:9 20:17,20 21:17 22:13 23:7 25:11 31:6 38:10 39:21,22 40:1,1 41:3,5 41:15 42:20,21 43:1,1,8 44:6 44:21 45:21 46:1 47:16,17 47:19 49:14 51:7 53:1,14 54:2,10,13,13 54:15,18,20 55:1,16,22 56:3,5,10,21 56:22 57:2,3,5 57:10 58:3,9 59:2,19,21 60:7,7,7,11,14 60:16,18,18,19 60:20,20,21,22 61:2,4,6 71:14 71:20 72:12,18 75:22 76:12 77:16 79:20 80:2,11,15 81:13,22 82:1 82:1 84:2,4,4 85:4,13,15,16 85:17,19,20 86:7,14,16,16 86:17 88:1,3,9 89:7,9,22 91:12 92:17 October 24, 2023 Page 21 94:3 95:15,17 97:16 100:11 101:20 102:16 103:4,10,11 104:18 105:3,6 105:10,13 106:11 107:3,4 107:7,8,9 108:15,19 109:1,4 110:1 110:5,10,12 112:14,20 113:4 118:19 118:22,22 119:2,2,3,15 119:16,18,18 119:20 120:2 122:20 123:3,6 124:9 125:16 125:17,17,18 125:19 126:19 126:20 127:9 127:10 128:5 129:10 130:9 130:13 131:1,8 131:14 132:1 132:12,12 133:11,16 134:16,18,19 136:13 138:12 139:15 140:10 141:5,7 142:2 142:4 143:11 143:16 147:10 147:14 148:9 148:11,11,13 148:17 149:8 149:13 150:3 150:16 151:3,5 151:11 152:2,4 156:18,21 157:9,21,22 158:20,21,21 159:18,20 161:4,6,8,9,16 163:9,10,11 164:1,19 165:19 167:2,4 168:1,2 169:14 169:16,16 170:18 172:15 173:12,14 174:9 175:11 175:12,13 178:1,7,17 180:20,21 183:17 184:4 184:16,21,22 185:12,20,22 186:1,7,8,13 186:15,18,19 187:3,6,9,15 187:20,22 188:2,12,15,16 188:17,19,20 189:8,13,16 190:9,18,22 191:1,3,6,8,15 192:3,5,10 194:1,4 195:4 195:10,16,21 196:16,19 197:9,9,10,11 197:22 198:3 198:11,15,16 198:17 199:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 199:20 200:5 201:15,19,22 202:5 203:7,9 204:6 205:3,5 205:5 206:1,4 206:21 207:22 208:2 209:3 210:22 211:6 212:11,14,20 212:22 213:3,9 213:19 214:2,3 214:8,9,10,13 214:19 215:11 220:4 221:10 222:4,6,14 224:1,3,3,17 226:1 227:14 227:15,16 229:13 231:7,9 232:14 234:7,9 234:10,20 235:20 236:13 237:6,21,22,22 238:1,3,4,10 238:22 239:11 240:4,5,22 241:8,12,16 242:17 243:10 drawings 203:5 drawn 42:6,17 137:5 230:13 draws 160:11 dream 79:7 dressed 155:21 drew 63:20 driven 34:8 driving 42:5 Meeting [dropping - employee] dropping 92:5 drops 165:13 drove 42:10 dubois 115:5 duck 75:3 76:9 82:10 due 87:9 duly 245:5 dumped 66:16 duster 3:20,22 13:4,5 116:14 116:18 120:13 120:16,20 122:10 124:6 124:13,20 125:20 126:7 127:5 128:3,15 145:8,8,17 147:18 148:15 149:9,11 151:15,15 152:1,3 duster's 134:21 149:6 dusters 132:15 duties 18:3,6 dwight 79:16 dynamic 179:3 179:4 200:15 204:16,20 205:11 dynamism 224:15 dystrophy 28:22 33:7 October 24, 2023 Page 22 e e 2:1,1 3:1,1 4:1,1 5:1 6:1 7:1,1 31:21 40:16 47:7,13 116:10 123:14 127:17 128:9 139:4 148:20 154:9 165:12 194:3 208:19 218:7 eagle 75:9,13 78:2 ear 20:2 earlier 32:1 40:15 69:4,20 77:9 144:10 165:22 172:11 181:4 207:6 222:20 234:20 238:19 earliest 77:8 206:19 early 146:22 240:3 earned 62:6 111:21 112:4 easier 106:13 easily 147:7 208:12 236:5 easy 129:17,17 129:21 ebay 76:8 edged 102:6,9 editor 4:15,16 10:17,18 93:22 educated 152:13 educating 101:13 education 16:14,19 192:16 216:13 educational 16:15 educator 113:21 116:2 effect 236:21 effective 185:17 effectively 102:5 168:20 efforts 64:4 68:13 eight 30:19 104:4,5,7,8,13 154:2 240:12 240:14,19 einsatzgruppen 63:10 eisenhower 79:16,17 either 141:18 174:8 176:15 177:21 189:6 194:11 207:16 232:12,12 234:10 elder 83:2 eldest 163:20 election 115:18 electors 25:17 electronically 54:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 elegant 92:15 165:11 202:20 221:5 element 106:18 221:8 elements 45:6 76:21 77:2,3 137:8,11 141:4 160:15 eleven 19:20 elicited 146:3 eliminating 95:14 email 19:19 emblem 183:4 emblematic 26:21 27:17 181:7,12 202:17 embodied 153:14 embraced 98:21 emigrated 62:5 emotion 146:3 emotional 146:2 emphasis 95:11 95:12 98:8 emphasized 154:3 employed 123:12 245:11 245:14 246:8 246:11 employee 245:13 246:10 Meeting [empowering - executor] empowering 116:1 encapsulation 165:14 encourage 64:12 encouraged 71:4 193:15 encouraging 22:11 endeavor 232:19 endorse 163:5 endorsement 43:20 endured 114:9 enemies 17:9 17:12 energy 70:10 engaged 21:15 24:15,21 25:5 68:17 engagement 22:2 23:18 engaging 43:21 70:10 179:9,18 england 152:15 engrave 203:14 engraver 39:10 51:5 engraving 2:21 12:2 enhance 39:12 enhanced 52:2 enjoyed 218:18 enjoying 202:13 enlightening 147:22 enlisted 62:8 enraged 114:18 enrich 59:3 ensure 73:15 99:13 111:17 126:14,17 enter 18:4,7 36:14 entered 63:18 entertain 234:3 entire 44:5 48:16 66:8 208:18 entirely 170:8 entry 27:12 236:2 envisioned 153:6 equal 111:4 139:1 158:4 173:9 equality 114:11 192:20 equally 46:21 173:5 equate 235:8 equation 205:13,20 era 159:15,16 es 245:4 especially 31:15 32:19 42:13 45:8 85:5 174:14 179:6,9 180:13 208:12 223:1 October 24, 2023 Page 23 232:19 234:22 esque 208:17 209:1 essence 43:17 50:4 219:14 essential 171:4 essentially 90:11 97:7 establish 64:12 established 63:5 152:21 establishment 64:4 estate 28:7 et 79:3,3 175:19 ethnic 176:21 177:5 ethnically 28:1 europe 62:12 78:21 81:5,7 152:19 216:18 evans 3:13 11:15,17 evasion 17:20 18:1 evening 32:10 event 5:2 6:2 everybody 46:15 101:18 131:21 169:3 210:7 everybody's 145:9 everyone's 130:6 evidence 62:16 192:7,11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 evoke 36:21 evolved 31:1 evolving 96:5 exactly 123:22 136:2 140:14 158:16 204:10 205:2 234:17 example 77:7 78:1 100:20 153:15 182:22 192:16,21 199:7 208:19 excellent 32:8 90:15 exception 209:12 exceptionally 33:3 exchange 36:21 excited 95:19 96:6 142:6 200:13 218:21 excitement 229:21 exciting 48:3 162:6 200:10 200:15 201:2 201:10 202:20 227:9 229:20 exclamation 95:11 excluded 225:4 excuse 188:8 207:5 executive 4:3 13:9 154:13 executor 4:8 13:16 14:1 Meeting [exemplifies - far] exemplifies 116:4 exhibited 38:3 expand 16:2 expect 228:21 229:22 experience 20:13,14,17 23:5 30:15,19 78:18 153:18 experienced 25:15 experimental 93:1 experts 28:6 explain 110:19 111:18 209:19 230:2 explicitly 180:10 explore 156:4 express 66:8 expressed 158:2 expression 75:3 101:9 extended 30:15 extension 34:13 extent 90:17 extra 139:5 extraordinary 64:16 116:4 eye 81:10 95:1 108:7,13 200:12 224:14 226:18 October 24, 2023 Page 24 eyed 83:16 eyes 87:19 135:10 eyesight 47:14 f face 47:2 169:5 171:6,7 195:6 203:18 217:21 222:18,20 faced 83:17,17 83:18 faces 36:20 facilitate 23:3 facilitates 24:11 facilitating 23:10 facilities 193:6 facing 59:15 84:21 202:19 fact 15:13,17 39:12 44:18 50:6 57:22 70:9 76:10 78:2 83:1 85:5 86:14 95:1 98:1,5,6,9 99:17,19 100:13 101:4 101:11 108:10 108:12 111:5 113:17 118:13 123:4 129:19 129:20 135:12 140:11 141:17 143:14,19 144:6 169:11 169:12 174:12 174:13,15,15 175:3,5,6 179:1 182:7 185:17 186:10 189:2 197:1 209:6,7,18 210:5,8,14 212:12 215:5 222:10 228:14 229:6 231:1 232:21 233:1,6 233:9,11,13,14 235:3 243:5 factory 24:14 faculty 16:4 fair 20:9 fairly 73:4 fairness 34:12 faith 17:15,17 faithful 143:5 faithfully 18:3 18:6 familiar 15:13 75:4 families 153:22 164:16 family 28:7,15 32:2,3,16 33:1 34:19 37:2,13 37:20 39:5 41:18 42:14 43:4,16 44:5 45:7 51:10,16 52:6 53:14 58:12,17 62:5 66:9 69:13 76:22 83:21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 89:18,20 94:17 99:12,21 116:13 117:5 118:1,6 119:8 119:10 123:10 126:21 139:2 140:6,17 141:22 164:17 193:20 194:20 195:8,14,19 196:12 197:13 197:17,22 210:22 215:1 215:19 231:15 231:17 233:7 233:19 234:15 234:19 235:14 family's 35:6 35:13 36:3 40:8 43:6 44:16 56:2 69:1,7 70:5 84:11 86:18 89:3,11 91:18 92:4,20 117:21 120:9 121:14 123:18 136:10 141:10 143:18 198:7 fan 95:14 fantastic 49:18 58:1 151:21 far 51:2 100:14 120:21 128:17 145:18 151:19 162:15 168:13 169:11 184:6 212:18 230:3 Meeting [far - firm's] 242:7 farm 215:18 fascinated 76:2 138:15 father 4:10 13:18 40:4 41:9 70:8 74:12,18 75:1 78:17 82:3,14 82:15 91:17 153:20 father's 84:8 favor 14:22 56:7 57:7 95:13 113:1 139:10 151:8 172:1 186:21 186:22 188:4 189:2 190:14 205:10 214:16 242:19 favorite 79:19 135:14 211:19 222:8 224:13 226:4 feather 122:4 122:22 143:7 feature 81:7 88:22 198:10 featured 27:1 features 37:15 37:22 48:5 70:3,16,18 71:7,9 77:13 117:17 195:4 195:16 featuring 179:22 180:6 October 24, 2023 Page 25 feedback 20:6 24:5 86:12 feel 36:1 43:18 43:19 45:13 50:2 52:2 137:8 141:17 165:17 167:15 168:10 174:2 176:4,5,17,21 177:1,4,19 179:17 194:21 202:14 205:11 209:1 227:6 237:10 feeling 45:11 77:6 160:2 164:5 204:9 feelings 175:22 feels 165:17 220:22 felder 14:1 218:11,16 219:3 234:11 234:11,15 238:8,12 239:7 239:12 243:4,8 fellow 16:4 fellowship 114:5 felt 37:7 43:16 90:7,9 118:11 118:14 137:6 137:10 211:22 226:15 227:4 female 217:1 feminist 113:22 ferencz 3:19,19 5:14 10:3 12:21,22 13:1 26:5 58:8 61:10,18,19 62:3,6,14,21 63:3,15,18,22 64:7,14 65:1,4 65:17,21 66:3 66:6 67:12,15 67:21 68:2,8 68:11 70:2 71:8 73:11,22 74:7,11,19 75:7,21 76:4 77:6 78:15 81:8 84:1,7 100:12,15 102:19 113:8 ferencz's 70:19 95:21 96:10 106:22 fewer 232:2,3 field 37:8 108:2 133:5 226:20 230:16 fields 27:20 242:10 fierce 31:16 34:4 38:4 fiercely 216:4 fifteen 104:9 fight 34:5 64:21 114:11 figure 46:22 90:9 92:1 129:18 179:11 179:20 193:9 204:21 222:12 222:12 225:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 230:5 figures 165:11 filipino 16:13 filled 33:13 film 30:10 31:1 final 38:8 81:14 148:10 204:21 finally 12:19 13:22 71:12 119:13 156:15 195:15,19 220:2 229:4 239:15 financially 245:15 246:11 find 14:4 58:13 88:17,19 91:4 143:8 152:18 156:3 166:8 170:13 175:7 179:3 224:8 233:2 fine 37:3 39:6,7 41:11 70:6,21 80:5 89:3 90:1 94:14 96:13 119:9 131:7 134:7 156:14 172:12 195:9 219:12 finer 219:22 220:20 finger 36:19 181:22 firm 88:15 firm's 88:19 Meeting [first - forum] first 7:13 14:7 16:8 19:9,13 19:16 23:15 26:1,2,17 35:14 39:20 41:8 44:1,11 45:3 47:14 61:17 79:1 85:22 94:5 95:2,7 117:21 118:6 120:7,10 121:3,8 122:14 135:18 138:17 141:9 145:19 156:5 165:2 167:10 168:6 171:1,15 178:3 187:4 191:5 192:7 193:11 201:9 216:7,10 216:20,22 217:7,14 225:1 232:16 firsts 216:19 fiscal 243:18 fish 157:3 166:11 fit 127:2,13,16 fits 165:12 five 10:4 26:2 26:20 27:8 28:9 33:20 38:17 54:12,15 55:12 62:22 70:18 71:10 78:7,19,20 81:17 94:18 97:9 98:17 October 24, 2023 Page 26 100:1 102:20 103:21,22 104:3,9,14 109:10,16 110:16,17,18 111:2,4,6,18 111:21 112:3 132:6 149:19 161:20 177:7 177:13 183:1 183:20 184:15 184:16 190:22 197:1 213:2 220:9 223:1 230:3 239:19 239:20 fives 82:18,20 82:22 83:8 fixed 102:13 flag 96:15 flagged 172:21 173:5 flat 92:13 flattering 90:3 90:6 200:12 flee 114:20 flip 118:5 141:9 flipped 121:6 floor 21:5 227:21 florida 81:9 216:12 flushed 200:20 flying 80:18 87:16 90:20 230:7 focus 106:9 131:13 181:3 181:11 204:19 238:20 focused 22:22 135:21 focuses 169:1 focusing 176:11,12 181:15 folks 159:12 188:6 190:11 199:10 follow 122:22 178:6 181:17 followed 152:12 240:16 following 9:20 10:21 13:3 21:5 216:10 217:2 font 50:14 56:16 87:4 179:15 205:16 208:17,17,19 208:21 fonts 123:12 force 64:18,19 99:4,5 101:9 101:10,13,14 136:19 226:9 227:4 forced 114:20 forceful 106:1 106:19 forefront 41:22 foregoing 245:3,4 246:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 foreign 17:9,12 foremost 19:16 forgive 86:7 197:11 238:10 forgot 91:13 form 71:2 76:17 80:13 93:7,10 108:11 111:11 formal 77:10 208:10 format 108:10 208:13 formats 93:6 formatting 37:9 former 164:21 217:13 formidable 34:5 forming 38:3 forms 63:16 142:14 formulated 147:17 formulating 140:6 formulation 48:10 fort 28:15 forth 31:11 236:4 fortunate 32:1 66:3 78:7 116:12 194:6 218:9 forum 20:8,18 23:16 25:8 Meeting [forums - general] forums 20:7 22:12 23:20 24:3 forward 8:12 18:10 19:8 25:22 42:5,10 42:18 60:11 70:9 79:15 90:20 130:2 173:3 187:12 189:2 191:22 192:1 194:10 196:16 202:12 202:17 215:8 218:19 237:3 239:14 foster 90:22 fought 62:11 63:16 78:21 192:15 193:16 found 28:22 35:18 63:12 69:8 84:9,15 90:5,6 153:15 195:6 219:17 foundation 97:14 101:11 founded 153:4 154:1 155:6 156:2 180:15 founder 4:16 10:17 114:1,3 114:4,5 152:20 156:9 170:7 171:3 174:4 175:3 founder's 160:7 October 24, 2023 Page 27 founding 173:21 176:3 186:5 four 20:11,12 26:6 94:18 97:7 103:20,21 103:22 104:5,7 145:11 168:19 177:15 185:5,9 223:15 226:20 236:4 240:12 frame 77:13 framed 92:12 framing 91:21 92:15 france 62:10 frankly 100:22 163:14 166:9 frazier 27:12 146:11 frederick 115:5 freely 17:19,22 fresh 34:19 friend 30:8 33:22 friendly 45:9 109:2,9,14,19 110:13 112:18 112:21 214:6,8 214:12,15 friends 114:14 164:17 front 54:7 74:8 102:20 129:13 159:5 239:17 fueled 114:21 full 55:7 79:10 126:14 136:8 230:4,5 fuller 2:8 8:6,8 8:10 10:6,7,9 42:22 43:1 54:10,13 60:7 60:8 81:22 82:1,7 85:19 86:14,16,17 107:3,8,9 118:22 119:1,2 119:3,16,18,20 125:17,17,19 126:19 134:18 134:19 143:16 148:11,13 158:21,22 159:18 161:6,7 161:9 163:10 163:11 175:11 175:13,13 185:20 186:1,1 186:8,13 188:16,19 191:6 197:9,11 197:12 198:16 198:17,19 227:15,16,17 234:20 237:21 237:22 238:1,4 238:5,10,22 fully 40:19 98:13 fun 76:5 199:1 199:3 203:1 fund 142:19 fundamentally 23:22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 funny 68:8 further 53:20 54:2 56:5 57:6 57:13 69:2 101:21 102:16 109:15 110:6 110:14,15 112:22 149:8 184:2,3 210:17 214:14 237:1 242:17 245:13 246:9 future 19:6,8 23:19 64:13 83:16 117:18 180:2 218:4 243:19 g g 7:1 gain 193:11,13 gained 154:2 galaxy 192:6 195:5,12,16 206:19 garden 27:12 gasp 202:10 gather 62:16 166:15 gathered 19:1 gazes 117:18 gazing 195:11 gender 192:20 193:16 general 2:3,7 2:10 8:4,15 9:17 20:1 24:20 46:3,6 Meeting [general - going] October 24, 2023 Page 28 48:16 62:11 girl 152:21 239:4 153:1,3,4,11 generally 177:7 153:13,15,17 generations 153:21 154:7 19:6 155:20,20 genocide 63:15 156:8,10 157:6 64:3 157:18 158:9 gentleman 55:2 158:12 163:20 56:12 164:7,14,22 gentlemen 165:1 168:8,22 185:13 191:8 170:7 171:3,12 191:21 212:16 171:13 172:7 215:9 173:16,21 genuine 36:21 174:4 175:3 geographically 176:3,4,6 28:2 90:17 177:18 178:13 geopolitical 179:7 181:11 64:11 181:15 182:3,6 george 27:10 182:8,17 186:5 27:13 girls 153:7,8 georgia 152:11 154:1,4 155:7 153:5 155:8,11,21 georgian 156:3 158:18 163:19 159:3,9,15 gesture 36:20 162:21,22 getters 104:16 163:14,15,17 getting 167:20 163:21 164:11 222:21 165:2 167:8 gibson 6:8 14:2 176:18 177:5 14:2 215:14,16 180:1,11 183:8 215:17,20 183:12 186:6 216:4,13,20 191:7 217:5,7,21 give 26:17 44:2 218:6,8,10 46:9 54:8 219:6 224:9 64:21 86:11 gilkes 4:15 87:9,21 89:15 gilt 10:16 90:12 91:6 98:7 137:21 139:13 141:19 143:20 144:6 167:10,22 174:16 182:22 183:20 203:17 212:7 228:16 236:20,20 239:17 given 58:20 71:2 108:1 113:9 126:22 138:18 152:12 157:6,18 159:14 gives 43:22 92:14 241:3 giving 45:11 64:14 80:12 86:15 136:8 166:13 glad 209:11 glance 91:19 global 217:22 globe 81:7 87:14 go 21:7 36:7 46:20 57:18 60:11 65:11,15 67:13,13,20 69:18 74:21 87:10 91:7 94:12 95:2,5 95:13 97:9 98:17 106:3 117:10 119:4 123:4 124:21 130:2,8 133:15 138:22 140:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 140:22 141:20 141:22 142:15 143:7 144:5 159:1 175:21 178:2 185:22 189:4 198:14 198:20 199:12 199:17 201:12 212:18 227:19 231:14 233:17 235:21 237:1,3 239:14,19 goal 64:11 god 18:4,7 27:15 181:20 goddaughters 174:14 goes 124:7 going 8:12 28:11 42:21 46:16 47:14 50:7 51:16 59:18 67:8 75:20 79:9 86:8,10,13 89:11 95:9,10 98:20,20 107:21 109:17 122:21 123:11 124:5 129:15 129:17,21 139:20 140:17 143:19 157:1 163:6 167:8 168:20 169:9 171:10 172:14 174:3 177:17 185:17 187:7 Meeting [going - hand] 187:12 188:12 189:1,9,10,11 190:5,6,7,12 191:10,22 196:9 200:17 203:15 204:5 204:12,17,18 204:20,21 207:9,19 209:4 209:19 210:11 212:7,17,17,18 213:1 215:5,8 223:2,9 225:8 225:20 226:11 228:8 232:17 233:17 234:2 235:21 237:8 237:16 239:18 239:19 240:2 242:9 gold 5:15 10:3 12:22 26:5 58:8 61:10,15 61:19,20 92:22 95:20 102:5,10 102:19 111:15 183:1 229:19 golf 217:8 good 7:2,8 32:10 43:17 46:21 59:18,21 92:21 94:8 124:20 128:16 133:15 138:10 138:22 139:13 141:5 183:7 200:17 225:2 227:10 240:5 October 24, 2023 Page 29 goodwill 216:16 google 170:6 gordon 4:4 5:21 13:10,11 152:7,10 153:16 154:7 154:10,14,18 155:5,20 156:7 162:10 166:5 167:13 168:8 168:21 169:2 170:1 184:10 196:7 gosh 238:9 gotten 188:22 government 3:15 12:12 27:22 governor 29:8 graceful 230:8 gradually 63:20 graduating 62:8 216:12 grand 217:5 granddaughter 3:20 13:5 grandmother 116:22 grandson 3:22 13:6 granted 193:2 193:7 grateful 23:1 gratified 68:19 gratitude 58:17 gravitate 140:16 great 3:20,22 13:5,6 34:3,11 41:3 49:20 79:4 82:2 83:21 91:17 95:20 114:20 116:22 117:9 123:21 132:18 140:15 148:5 155:3 163:19 163:21 175:16 200:16 215:6 227:20,21 228:8 229:1,19 242:3 greater 98:8 greatest 34:8 greatly 32:17 53:21 greg 2:19 12:8 54:9 55:3 103:12 104:18 128:13,22 149:18 150:5 184:12 185:1 213:11 239:17 240:6 grew 215:20 grocery 114:14 groundbreaki... 30:11 218:3 grounds 173:18 group 4:17 10:18 17:3 88:14 230:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 230:13 243:19 groups 98:19 177:6 growing 79:8 153:11 growth 156:1 guess 125:1,11 125:21 141:8 172:6 211:9 221:14 225:5 236:10 239:5 guest 30:21 guidance 81:17 guides 152:21 157:18 guiding 43:13 153:1 157:7 guilty 63:12 guy 91:13 204:9 207:19 guys 59:12 204:5 237:20 h hague 81:11 95:1 hair 234:17 hanchock 3:12 11:19,20 73:13 hand 7:7 17:6 35:20 36:20 40:15 51:13 52:3,5,7 59:19 107:21 121:2 123:13 125:22 140:2 144:20 178:4 188:10 190:5,7,8,16 Meeting [hand - history] 190:19 191:2,4 191:6 197:20 198:2 219:7 233:6 240:4 handled 89:15 222:11 hands 186:21 187:19 188:5,6 189:1,10,18 190:15 191:7 202:3 221:22 handy 117:8 happen 32:20 128:1 222:22 happened 146:7,11 happening 146:9 201:1 225:16 happiest 35:5 happiness 38:2 happy 40:8 43:4,5 44:2 84:10 85:1 88:5 97:8 108:17 111:13 111:17 112:17 145:15 170:15 220:19 221:2 harcourt 2:8 8:6,11 42:21 60:7 82:7 86:17 134:17 136:17 137:14 143:15 158:22 161:7 175:13 186:1 188:10 190:16 191:4 October 24, 2023 Page 30 197:12 198:19 227:17 238:5 hard 32:19 34:5 142:17 191:14 harder 217:12 harlem 215:19 harvard 62:7 79:9 hat 159:5,10,17 hats 159:4,13 head 51:11 184:7 203:18 headset 68:4 health 31:3 33:8 hear 21:18 23:8 25:18 43:17 52:20 56:17 59:10,11 67:4,7,14 68:4 68:5,10 74:3,6 74:7 75:16 77:5,22 85:18 91:17 112:9 128:3 155:2 159:12 161:10 165:7 188:13 211:10 heard 23:16 25:13 53:16 55:18 56:14 58:14 75:2 78:16,17 100:14 108:4,4 126:22 129:15 140:15 147:16 172:9 173:7 176:1 184:6 198:11 211:14 213:20 227:22 hearing 14:7 14:13,22 38:14 50:20 54:2 56:7 57:7 68:9 74:2 81:15 102:17 113:1 130:5 131:21 132:4 149:10 149:14 151:8 161:18 165:3 196:21 211:3 214:16 241:9 242:19 243:1 heart 34:8,14 heart's 191:13 heartfelt 22:14 heavens 201:22 229:7 heaviness 87:5 height 118:13 heinous 62:17 held 20:7,8,9 hell's 79:8 hello 32:11 45:1 155:4 help 18:4,7 33:14 34:15,21 59:16 174:20 181:21 239:14 helped 23:3 35:17 helpful 43:13 76:20 helping 156:3 193:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 helps 186:9 202:18 hereto 245:15 246:11 heritage 19:5 28:18 35:15 hesitancy 86:8 hesitate 136:20 hi 44:8 high 29:5,6 55:10,14 104:11,16 150:12,14 240:15 241:13 higher 23:17 highest 16:5 157:6,18 highlight 90:4 highlighted 135:4 highlights 46:22 highly 34:15 227:10 hindrance 42:11 hispanic 177:9 historian 117:7 historians 28:4 50:7 172:21 historical 179:11,20 180:7 history 2:12 8:18 15:10,10 15:14,15 16:8 16:11 17:1 19:2,3 27:4,5 Meeting [history - images] 28:5 29:4 31:8 31:11 48:17 63:12 115:18 115:19 126:12 155:6 173:20 217:18,19 228:4 hit 73:20 hoard 2:10 8:14,16 41:17 51:9 60:22 61:1 76:13,15 77:15 90:1 91:11 102:1,11 102:15 108:21 109:3 131:17 131:18 136:15 136:16 162:5 178:19,20 200:7,8 213:22 226:3 237:7 241:2,19,21 242:10,13 hobby 20:4 22:2 24:16 hold 65:7 161:21 holding 134:9 135:12 hole 200:21 holmes 125:5,5 125:6 holocaust 63:8 63:17 96:11 home 81:10 166:5,5 218:3 homework 50:3 October 24, 2023 Page 31 honestly 94:15 honor 16:5,20 27:7 28:1 32:17 33:4 66:10 68:13 154:19 157:18 176:10,11,12 181:20 186:4 217:2 218:17 honorably 63:1 honored 22:18 26:12 27:13 86:5 116:22 145:9 155:11 163:20 honoree 28:13 163:16 176:4,7 196:14 honorees 28:8 honoring 26:12 113:15 152:7 166:7 192:3 215:14 230:6 honors 35:15 62:8 hope 143:8 151:20 181:14 210:12 222:16 hopeful 83:16 hopefully 18:12 116:20 186:17 188:3 hopes 30:19 hoping 109:20 174:13 horrors 62:18 hosted 30:20 hour 183:22 hours 145:11 house 2:9,13 8:7,21 houses 146:9 howard 60:22 huge 183:5 human 25:6,8 humane 64:13 humanities 27:22 201:13 humanity 63:13 64:3 65:21 97:14 humbled 33:4 humor 28:19 210:5 hung 101:13 husband 152:16 hyphenate 125:13 i iconic 169:2 170:14 ida 3:20,22 5:18 13:5,6,6 113:15,21 116:8,11 117:7 118:9 124:15 124:16,21 125:5,5,6,7 128:21 132:17 133:4 136:18 141:12,18,21 144:19 146:14 147:3 149:15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 173:22 196:7 ida's 146:1,9 idea 140:3,4 146:6 181:15 232:17 ideal 140:9 ideals 153:1 ideas 20:3,6 36:21 88:13 116:21 140:15 identified 36:10 37:13,20 51:18 117:12 155:15 195:8 ignored 115:10 ii 61:22 63:20 98:4,7 illinois 115:14 illumination 135:9 illustrated 216:21 image 46:11 49:1 89:13 90:12 97:1,5 118:8,12 120:21 123:19 124:17,22 126:4 139:21 140:1 146:11 146:18,21 147:4,7 163:2 167:12 169:2 172:13 images 48:18 82:11 119:4 147:8 168:19 Meeting [imaging - inscription] imaging 32:22 immediately 124:8 immense 133:3 immigrant 79:8 impact 30:13 31:1 38:5 45:18 63:19 90:17 162:8,9 162:14,16,22 180:5 impactful 180:7 226:14 226:15 impartial 25:15 impassioned 204:11 impending 200:22 imperative 64:17 93:13 106:19 implies 108:3 importance 20:2 45:12 181:19 207:4 important 21:21 22:2 29:19 48:5 51:11 53:6 78:11 82:11,12 83:2 97:9 98:2 98:5,7 109:18 139:10 142:12 143:18,22 148:15 153:17 October 24, 2023 Page 32 155:5 160:14 165:4 166:21 170:10 180:3 197:14 228:1 232:22 233:22 236:15 importantly 66:7 166:17 179:17 imposing 222:11 impressed 99:2 105:16 impressions 41:8 impressive 99:9 239:10 improve 37:10 inappropriate 181:16 inception 157:20 inch 183:9 include 27:19 31:19 37:8 48:5 65:20 66:1 79:13 98:21 116:8 154:6 166:11 176:22 177:13 194:1 218:5 included 49:8 116:20 178:12 192:22 230:22 231:1 includes 9:20 12:22 13:4 38:6 110:15 117:19 143:6 166:17 230:4 including 16:17 27:20 63:7 92:10 97:9 125:4 127:17 159:13 174:4 217:5 235:14 inclusion 22:7 31:9 165:1 220:21 inconceivable 115:16 incorporate 41:13 111:18 incorrect 221:16 increase 23:20 incredible 30:21 49:19 142:8 incredibly 47:21 220:19 221:1 incurve 40:10 incuse 40:21 93:9 205:18 incused 41:2 108:3 237:17 independent 29:11 63:5 independently 78:16 indicate 10:22 indicated 69:20 70:7 118:8 173:8 234:20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 indication 67:17 170:4 indicative 146:22 individual 32:22 48:2 176:12 217:9 individuals 17:3 infant 33:12 infantry 63:2 79:4 influence 174:21 info 19:19 infor 146:14 inform 194:22 information 33:5 73:10 78:9 98:16 109:15,16 110:14 161:11 informed 25:14 42:1 infusion 39:16 inherent 51:21 initially 30:18 initials 126:16 initiative 16:11 27:5 initiatives 30:14 innovative 93:1 232:10 input 71:3 inquired 173:7 inscription 31:21 36:22 Meeting [inscription - jackson] 37:17 38:7 43:22 70:4 80:14 93:7 99:3,6 116:11 127:14,16 154:10 156:9 156:11 170:7 218:8 219:10 229:18 inscriptions 27:14 31:20 37:9 38:3 40:10 46:8 47:4 65:16,19 65:22 89:14 116:9 117:19 118:1 119:10 119:13 123:15 123:19 128:12 129:20 133:7 133:21 141:9 141:20,22 149:6 154:8 175:2 194:2,4 218:6 222:10 inside 121:1 insight 24:6 40:4,6 91:16 169:21 insignias 77:22 insignificant 33:19 inspection 134:3 148:4 inspirational 29:18 132:21 229:8,12 October 24, 2023 Page 33 inspire 34:22 164:11 inspires 201:12 instinct 168:5 institute 15:12 institution 25:3 institutions 24:22 instrument 209:17,17 instrumental 29:3 215:3 intellect 28:18 intellectual 30:6 intelligent 34:15 intend 178:3 intended 92:22 intensity 224:8 intent 106:21 146:4 intention 53:12 interest 23:18 37:14 122:2 223:12 interested 33:18 37:21 99:12 211:12 241:8 245:15 246:12 interesting 96:19 144:17 221:8 227:3 235:18 interestingly 194:19 219:14 interests 25:16 intergovernm... 2:6 3:17 12:5 12:13 internal 15:15 97:5 international 61:21 62:1 64:1,5,6,8 66:2 81:11 96:2 115:1 153:12 216:10 217:4 internet 75:19 interpretation 93:16 105:16 106:22 148:2 205:9,17 interpreted 186:11 interruption 67:3 68:20 intersects 19:3 intricate 183:3 intrigued 44:12 230:14 intriguing 90:5 introduce 7:22 26:14 61:13 introduction 5:7 15:6 21:11 41:9 113:18 154:19 intrude 66:19 invaluable 20:6 78:14 98:4 151:16 invasion 62:10 78:22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 inverses 88:21 invested 17:3 investigated 114:16 investigations 81:8 invisible 192:13 invite 18:12 involved 32:18 66:11 68:12,17 146:19,21 147:2 164:12 164:13 involvement 198:12 iphone 67:17 isolated 179:11 179:19 issue 26:20 175:1 176:19 233:7 issues 14:5 33:8 it'd 99:8 it'll 40:18 88:6 108:2 200:2 235:18 242:3 item 5:2 6:2 122:4 191:22 215:9,12 j jacket 122:18 jackie 235:8 jackson 2:17 9:4,6 44:22 45:1,2 60:3,6 Meeting [jackson - kind] 91:15,15 139:17,17 164:21 202:7,7 220:16,16 jamaica 216:11 jammed 137:9 jarring 108:7 108:12 jean 4:8 13:16 32:5,12 jefferson 216:14 jennifer 2:5 7:3 10:12 12:4 52:9 58:4 154:22 188:9 jessica 4:11 13:18 32:12 jewelry 122:2 141:2 150:22 157:2 166:14 jingle 101:15 job 1:20 39:17 45:10 229:18 joe 51:5 joel 4:10 13:17 32:9,11 51:22 52:16 53:18 58:16 john 2:13 8:20 41:6 61:4 80:15,16 94:4 122:20 138:13 144:8 151:3,4 151:5,5 170:19 170:21 178:2 206:5 224:18 224:21 230:1 October 24, 2023 Page 34 235:21 241:16 join 16:9 17:2 34:7 63:3 99:20 164:12 217:7 joined 12:20 13:2,8,12,22 62:9 153:19 232:17 joining 32:14 36:6 132:16 191:18 joke 23:5 journalism 117:20 118:2 118:11,14 121:15 134:2 135:22 142:11 journalist 113:22 116:3 118:3 119:11 121:5,10,16 125:12 140:7 149:6 journeys 30:16 joy 38:2 195:6 211:21 judging 46:3 judgment 89:12 judicial 64:19 110:6 julia 196:7 juliette 4:4 5:21 13:10,10 152:7,10 153:16 154:7 154:10,14,18 155:5,19 156:7 160:6,21 162:9 166:5 167:13 168:7,21 169:2 170:1 184:10 196:7 jump 157:1 justice 28:20 29:13,15,17,20 31:11,15,17 34:12 35:17 37:1,16,18 38:5,6 43:22 47:1 48:8,9 49:9 50:5,14 56:15 62:1 64:8,21 66:2 70:17 71:7,9 87:7,17 88:18 88:20,22 89:6 114:12,22 justification 225:18 juxtaposition 92:8 k karl 4:6 13:12 194:7,11 197:16 katherine 31:6 katrina 217:13 keen 75:12 keep 38:16 66:7 101:6 141:18 147:15 161:20 173:3 220:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 keeping 75:14 107:1 keeps 167:14 kellen 2:10 8:14 23:8,9 41:16 60:22 76:15 89:22 91:11 131:16 131:18 136:14 136:16 162:4 165:5 178:18 178:20 200:6,8 204:2 205:1,7 213:21 226:2 235:22 237:6 241:21 kellen's 23:5 140:20 kept 193:21 key 193:12 keynote 29:19 192:22 keys 138:3 140:21 kid 75:16 kids 169:8 216:1 killed 78:20 kind 23:11 33:1 41:13 42:1,2,4 51:11 76:19 90:2,8,9 90:10,18,20 93:10 94:9,19 96:11,19 125:12 137:1,3 137:6,15 138:14 144:10 Meeting [kind - law] 144:14 146:2,8 146:13,15,22 178:10 179:11 179:12 182:10 182:14 183:9 199:4,5,8 201:6,7 207:18 207:18 223:17 225:19 226:19 229:21 238:7 kindly 119:4 kinds 128:19 kingdom 152:22 157:19 kinzie 152:10 kitchen 79:8 kitt 206:18,20 kitt's 206:13,15 knew 140:14 know 21:9,9,14 21:15 22:8 24:18 33:4 36:14 39:5,9 39:11,14,14,15 39:17 41:21 45:12 48:21 49:1,3,8 51:10 51:12,14,22 52:11 53:6,8,8 53:11 60:10 69:1,3,22 73:6 73:12 79:3,5 82:6,14,15 83:12,15 85:6 86:6 87:1,5,7 87:13,16,18,19 88:15 90:8,18 90:19 91:3 October 24, 2023 Page 35 94:12 95:6 97:11 101:15 103:1 105:7 106:2,19 107:10,13 108:10 117:6 117:15 120:16 120:22 121:1 122:11 124:8 125:13 126:4 127:7 128:4,16 128:18,21 134:7,20 135:9 135:13,20 136:2,4 137:1 137:6,19 138:1 142:7,11 143:20 145:6 146:4,5,6,10 146:11 148:5 155:18 159:6 161:10 163:13 163:18 165:7 168:5,15,16,17 168:18 169:3,5 169:8,10 170:5 170:11 171:12 172:2 174:1,2 175:16 176:8 176:10,11,16 176:19 177:1 178:8 179:19 180:7,15 181:15 191:11 197:21 198:22 199:3,4,15,21 204:8,9,13,13 204:16,18,18 204:22 207:9 207:10,11,19 208:11,12,15 208:20 209:8 221:22 222:16 222:22 223:5,6 223:10,10,10 223:11,14,15 223:18,20,20 226:7,16,17 228:3,4,14,19 228:20 229:2,6 229:10,11,11 231:12,20,21 232:2,3,6 235:9 236:6 242:4,5 knowing 31:13 91:19 knowledge 142:20 147:22 245:10 246:6 known 35:7 115:6 125:11 173:20 176:3 176:14 180:4 208:7 216:8 235:7 knows 169:3 korea 28:14 32:13 korean 28:17 35:15,16 kristie 4:13 11:2 15:16 kudos 21:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 l label 179:12 labont 30:9 ladies 55:2 56:12 185:12 191:8,21 193:10 212:16 215:9 217:8 lady 159:4 lamp 147:17,21 147:22 lapel 73:4,10 73:16 74:14 75:8 76:3,10 82:10 84:9 86:6 122:4,13 122:18 123:1 large 22:20 23:2 37:6 55:19 88:15 179:18 largely 179:1,2 larger 49:6 140:4 202:1 lasted 114:12 lasting 162:8 180:9 lastly 23:7 35:19 36:1 lasty 221:21 late 95:22 217:3 laura 27:11 law 16:18 29:4 62:2,7,17 63:18 64:9,19 65:21,22 66:1 Meeting [law - liked] 70:16 71:5 79:9,15,18 80:14 87:4,5 88:15,18 90:21 93:8,16 96:2,2 97:1,15 99:4,5 100:20 101:5,9 101:10,13,14 101:16 107:13 107:20,22 181:21 lawrence 1:4 2:3 9:16 49:15 53:1,17 59:22 61:6 71:14 77:17 97:17 110:12 112:15 129:10 143:12 150:3 213:9 240:6 laws 29:15 layered 40:10 lead 200:3 leader 2:14,16 3:6 8:21 9:2,8 29:18 31:16 48:9 114:1 166:3 leaders 34:9 leadership 29:2 30:3 153:8 154:2 156:3 163:13 leadoff 198:6 leads 22:7 48:20 111:11 league 114:5 216:3 October 24, 2023 Page 36 lean 99:22 143:8 174:21 198:9 233:19 leaning 145:16 leaping 230:8 learn 91:5 165:9 200:13 228:8 learned 64:15 96:4 208:5 learners 16:16 learning 15:11 16:15,18,18 44:1 leave 41:14 49:3,12 57:1 133:9 209:2 232:11 leaves 92:6 leaving 165:16 lectures 101:4 led 33:8 34:4 153:3 left 35:20 37:6 51:18 74:13 177:1,11,19 195:18 legacy 31:15 99:17 117:9 162:11,22 179:21 180:9 180:16 legal 2:19 12:9 15:14 38:12 63:4 64:12 71:17 79:22 88:16 118:21 129:7 156:19 195:22 220:5 legally 128:1 legend 178:9 legends 225:18 legible 133:6 legion 183:1,4 legislation 27:9 29:15 181:5 182:14 legislative 2:5 3:16 12:5,13 66:12 68:14 legs 33:9 lending 20:2 length 166:13 lenox 215:22 lesson 142:10 lessons 64:15 letter 9:21 14:9 31:8 115:20 123:12 144:16 lettering 38:2 39:8,11,12 53:7 102:6,9 133:14 139:9 150:20 232:8 242:8 letters 5:4 49:5 51:3 174:6 182:9 237:13 237:15 level 23:17 24:11,12 83:12 227:4 liaison 2:6 7:3 7:5 10:12 12:6 36:10 70:7 156:5,13 158:5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 159:22 169:12 173:2,7 218:10 219:13 232:13 liaison's 70:19 71:11 80:8 158:2 219:11 liaisons 12:21 13:3 26:9 58:12 118:7 206:16 243:14 liberated 62:20 liberty 27:15 134:5 147:22 243:21 life 31:5,13,14 34:4,12,20 35:5 38:6 40:5 79:10 84:8 86:4 95:21 98:8 99:17 114:11,15,20 115:2 132:17 132:20 140:5 143:21 144:2 152:13,18 153:11,17 173:22 202:18 life's 63:21 lifelong 61:22 96:1 lifetimes 35:2 light 39:8 114:8 lightheartedly 75:11 lightly 40:18 liked 42:14 43:5 44:17,18 Meeting [liked - love] 46:17 78:1 90:14 94:18 137:10 204:4 211:21 likely 127:1 likened 75:13 likeness 31:19 70:8 75:12 76:17,20 87:4 116:8 154:7 160:20 194:1 218:5 219:14 231:16,18 232:13 233:7 233:21 234:13 234:17,19 238:6 likenesses 234:14 limited 27:21 limits 168:14 lincoln 216:13 line 205:15 221:7 lines 145:3 147:19 liquidated 101:12 list 2:2 3:2 4:2 226:11 listen 66:21 68:19 listened 46:14 67:9 69:5 167:5 listening 7:5,19 listens 21:15 October 24, 2023 Page 37 little 33:6 47:7 49:22 40:15 51:3 51:6 77:8,9 59:15 61:17 82:12,20 83:9 74:1 76:9 86:3 90:3 82:12 92:15 134:4 135:10 102:21 124:14 135:15 147:21 133:8 134:8 148:5,6 149:2 137:16,21 160:21 168:15 144:17 146:12 168:16 170:1 148:6,7,7 171:7 198:22 157:10 158:6 204:3,14 160:22 161:2 218:19 220:18 167:8 171:5 221:3,16 225:8 179:14 198:7 226:17 228:4 200:14 203:17 229:2 230:15 205:16 207:4 235:11 237:11 223:19 225:15 237:18 238:15 231:11 238:9 240:22 242:3 238:13,13 242:11 live 74:20 looked 76:18 163:19 181:21 145:10,20 lived 79:6 83:3 146:18 147:6 lives 153:9 179:16 225:1 living 29:11 238:14,20,20 228:3 looking 24:9 local 29:8 42:18 48:4 locals 114:18 56:19 70:9 located 75:19 73:2 86:8,9 location 81:11 87:19 100:17 long 30:19 137:20 139:19 64:22 83:4 162:12 177:4 94:7 95:21 177:11 194:10 96:12 195:4 201:22 longer 99:17 202:12,13,17 166:13 203:6 207:7,13 longevity 96:10 209:15 229:7 look 18:10 19:7 looks 83:15 40:12 46:7 135:21 168:17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 198:22 199:2 199:13,20 200:19,22 201:5 203:1,4 221:1,16,19,22 222:1 223:10 223:11 225:7 228:11,19,19 229:9,11 237:5 lose 50:7 loses 50:3 losing 34:18 loss 115:21 lost 67:7 76:5,7 115:17 148:1 167:8 170:2 216:8 lot 21:2 23:16 24:20 50:3 84:21 91:7 94:8 96:4 128:18,20 129:13,15 134:12 140:15 167:12,14 171:11,13 172:3 174:16 179:5,6 180:6 223:12 225:6 228:7 232:2 235:1,7 love 34:2,3,4,8 34:10 50:12 139:18 162:18 163:7 164:18 165:5 174:5 232:7,9 Meeting [loved - mean] loved 79:16 loves 35:5 loving 34:13 91:20,20 202:16 low 4:4 5:21 13:10,11 152:7 152:14,17,19 153:1,4,14,18 154:7,10,14,18 155:5,20,22 156:8 162:10 166:5 167:13 168:8,21 169:2 170:2 173:16 173:20 176:2 184:10 196:7 low's 153:16 lower 40:15 lowercase 174:6 lunch 26:4 57:16 lydia 246:2,15 lynching 114:13 m mac 16:4 mackay 152:14 made 21:13 33:16 38:5 39:12 45:18 49:5 53:5,9 68:13 69:7 81:9 87:18 90:11 96:9 105:22 106:15 October 24, 2023 Page 38 126:17 139:3 139:20 171:7 176:15 194:22 198:7 202:10 209:9 210:8 214:11 218:20 231:4 234:21 241:17 magazines 216:22 magill 152:10 maiden 35:16 143:4 major 62:11 78:21 175:8 176:9 192:8 201:14 majorite 2:15 majority 9:2 179:18 185:19 192:12 242:15 make 24:1 32:20 49:5,22 50:2 51:2,3 53:16 59:12 70:21 77:4 82:4,18 86:19 94:6 98:12,16 99:18 106:18 123:10 124:19 127:22 128:1 130:7 132:7 133:14 139:9 142:10,21 144:17 148:11 154:4 173:6 185:16 191:11 192:21 194:21 203:21 204:12 204:12 205:19 214:6 219:21 221:15 229:19 236:8,11,12 241:13 maker 106:12 109:20 makes 25:5 49:10,10 91:4 141:3 144:1 148:4 200:13 233:5 making 46:11 99:12 103:17 127:3 150:11 199:14 236:16 male 192:17 193:21 man 83:1,3 manage 88:15 managed 32:21 management 3:11 11:5 26:14 41:19 61:13 manager 2:21 3:3,4,12,13,14 11:11,16 12:1 51:18 206:12 manner 70:10 map 94:22,22 maps 80:18,19 march 62:3 145:21 153:3 maria 230:8 231:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 markings 222:2 marks 71:4 167:16 marriage 152:15 married 124:22 143:4 marrying 152:14 marveled 49:17 masculine 166:9 171:8 mass 192:12 massachusetts 15:11 match 219:9 228:22 materials 111:14 matter 28:6 57:14 179:12 192:8 194:5 199:21 201:5 205:15,17 matthew 1:19 245:2,17 mature 85:6 maya 230:6 mcnally 4:13 11:2,3 15:16 15:19 17:14,18 18:2,8,15,17 mean 31:14 81:1 91:6 94:14 95:7 98:19 99:16 Meeting [mean - mike] 106:11,20 109:10 111:2 121:9 124:7,21 127:5 135:18 160:4 171:13 172:2 178:10 204:10,11 205:2 222:21 223:9 225:4,14 227:10 235:1 235:10 236:3 237:12 238:12 meaning 47:9 112:12 meanings 99:14 146:16 means 40:18 99:16 meant 36:21 199:2 206:22 208:18 227:1 mechanical 37:22 138:16 mechanisms 64:2,19 medal 5:15 10:3 12:22 26:5 46:4 58:8 61:10,15,19,20 66:10 68:15 69:5 72:4,5,7 82:4 92:22 95:20 98:14 102:4,19 107:11,22,22 108:11 111:15 166:12 167:9 229:19 October 24, 2023 Page 39 medallic 2:17 9:5 medals 17:4 102:5,10 166:14 183:5 media 4:15,16 10:16,18 22:5 44:14 medicine 31:7 medium 226:20 227:3 meeting 1:1 5:6 7:11,13,20 9:22 10:14,22 14:10 20:9 22:19 67:9 116:20 191:20 244:2 meetings 22:2 201:11 meets 35:12 megan 2:22 11:7 member 5:8 15:6,9 17:1 23:19 36:12 69:21 115:7 117:13 217:19 234:15,19 members 8:1,1 10:13 19:17,20 20:1,11 23:6 25:13 28:7 38:18 43:4 50:19 60:2 69:16 75:10,20 81:18 100:5 136:18 153:13 158:12 175:10 219:1 220:8 233:1 235:14 243:13 membership 63:13 memory 163:14 men's 193:9 mental 17:19 17:22 mention 221:4 223:14 mentioned 16:3 32:1 34:17 96:16 154:19 171:11 mentored 31:12,12 193:15 merit 139:14 207:21 211:13 merits 212:1 mesh 224:11 mess 11:19 message 46:4 90:21 101:1 125:19 148:6 155:10 168:21 169:7 233:15 met 18:19 19:15 33:19 152:19 192:17 208:7 metaphorically 90:18 miami 153:20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 mic 60:9 michael 2:21 56:22 89:10 186:19,20 222:7 michelle 3:20 13:4 116:13,18 116:19 117:6 120:11 124:13 145:6 149:9 151:14 micromasters 16:17 microphone 74:13 microphones 7:21 52:21 microscopica... 183:2 microsoft 67:16 201:6 mics 7:5 59:13 mid 230:9 middle 35:14 126:15 migration 15:15 mike 2:15 3:18 4:16 9:1 10:17 12:1,15 40:22 53:5 59:12 60:16 72:4,6 72:16 89:8 93:4,5,15,18 102:8 123:5,7 123:20,21 127:12,21 130:14 141:6,8 Meeting [mike - mother] 142:13 148:19 167:3 168:13 169:22 183:13 184:1 203:8,10 203:11,19 210:19 222:5 223:4 225:17 237:8,14 241:22 milbern 4:8,9 4:10,10,11,11 4:12,12 5:12 13:16,17,17,18 13:18,19,19,20 13:21 26:12 28:12,13,21 29:7,16 30:8 31:16,19,22 32:2,5,6,10,11 36:18 37:15,22 38:4 40:4 43:12 45:9 49:6 51:16 52:4,14,16 53:14,18,18 54:1,5 58:12 58:15,16,19,20 58:22 milbern's 31:3 31:9,10 48:17 military 15:15 70:19 71:10 79:13 98:9,10 99:15 109:11 military's 75:8 million 147:4 153:13 155:9 158:12,13,17 October 24, 2023 Page 40 millions 155:8 164:13,15,16 174:20 195:1,1 mind 77:12 86:14 101:6 105:19 106:2,7 171:15 173:3 200:9 241:4 mindful 97:22 183:21,22 239:11 minimize 141:11 minority 2:13 3:6 8:21 9:8 mint 1:9 4:14 10:12,21 14:4 21:22 23:1,10 23:14 24:13 25:6 26:13 37:4 39:15 49:18,20 57:21 58:1 78:5 97:19 112:6 126:5 139:11 148:18 183:4 184:2 196:6 219:19 236:7 243:13 mint's 61:12 minted 107:11 minute 54:15 81:17 149:19 239:19 240:3 minutes 5:4 9:21 14:9,14 19:14 20:13,20 20:21,22 33:20 33:21 38:17 54:12 96:5 97:12 102:21 103:1 132:6 161:20 183:20 184:15,16 197:1 213:2,3 213:4 220:9 239:20 miracle 79:10 mirroring 97:5 97:5 misinterpreted 146:16 missed 80:5 misses 43:12 mission 62:15 135:21 missouri 216:14 mister 43:12 misunderstan... 181:2 mit 15:12,13 16:4,14,15,19 208:5 mit's 16:5 mitx 16:17 mix 192:22 mixed 175:22 mixing 174:6 mobile 44:12 moderated 1:4 modern 24:16 50:13 227:8 modest 51:2 modification 214:6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 modifications 127:3 modified 236:5 modify 106:8 modifying 56:16 moment 58:11 68:3 70:11 96:3 142:9 moments 66:17 mommy 209:21 209:22 money 20:10 148:8 months 62:4 moran 2:15 9:1 9:3 45:22 46:1 48:13 56:19,22 57:1 60:16,17 89:9,10 123:6 124:2 141:7,8 142:13 167:4 186:18,20,20 187:5,7,14,18 189:6,11,14,17 190:20 203:9 203:10,13,22 222:6,7 morning 7:2,8 7:9,17 12:10 234:16,18 243:17 morris 217:17 mother 4:8 13:16 32:12 115:12 153:19 164:22 Meeting [mother's - nay] mother's 35:16 motherhood 115:4 motion 14:13 14:21 15:4 51:20 56:6,11 57:12 105:9,12 105:21 106:4,5 106:9,12,15 108:14,17,20 109:7,20 112:20 113:5 130:8,9,11,13 130:15,21 131:1,2,4,6,8 131:12,15,21 132:2 151:7,12 186:12,15 187:1,4,11,13 187:15,16,21 188:3,5,5 189:1,9,17,19 189:21 190:3 214:4,14,20 226:9 227:7,12 228:13 229:3 231:13 233:9,9 233:14 236:8 236:11,12,14 236:16 237:1,2 241:4,9,17,18 242:1,15,18 243:1 motions 50:19 55:18 100:5 104:19 124:3 150:16 210:18 213:19 October 24, 2023 Page 41 motivated 34:11 motivating 154:4 motto 47:7 mountain 171:17 move 8:12 14:16 19:12 21:18 25:22 47:13 55:22 79:15 91:14 104:22 105:20 128:8,11 150:19 152:2,5 187:12,14,15 187:18 189:2 191:22 192:1 194:10,18 201:18 202:6 212:17,18 213:22 215:8 241:12 moved 82:9,13 97:18 196:16 215:19 movement 28:20 29:13 35:17 115:8,10 146:20 153:3 154:1 155:6 230:8 moves 99:8 173:3 movie 30:15 moving 25:22 29:13 37:12 38:8 70:14 84:10 104:6 109:5 118:16 127:17 128:9 152:14 155:13 191:15 201:17 219:4 220:1 mullis 4:3 13:9 154:13,17 155:4 157:5,11 157:15 158:11 158:15 159:7 160:4,19 169:20 184:5 191:17 multi 16:10 multiple 7:9 15:2 56:9 57:9 113:3 151:10 188:7 196:15 198:8 211:11 211:15,17 214:18 242:21 murder 63:11 muscular 28:21 33:7 museum 27:5 28:6 31:7 115:19 126:12 166:6 museum's 217:20 mute 7:20 67:19 muted 8:11 54:17 60:10 73:20 128:4 mutual 23:13 24:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 n n 2:1 3:1 4:1 5:1,1 6:1,1 7:1 name 8:2 11:1 11:19 35:14,16 39:1 52:11 77:1,11 81:21 121:1,6 124:7 124:15 125:3,8 125:10 126:14 132:9 135:20 141:11 162:2 179:16 196:5 196:16 197:3 208:21 220:13 226:14 names 77:21 125:14 143:5 196:6,8,14,15 narrative 98:22 narrowly 216:9 nasa 208:17 national 27:5 28:5 114:2,3 115:1,19 126:12 217:4 217:19 nationals 216:8 nations 112:2 native 177:8 nature 199:15 228:5 navigating 218:1 nay 56:10 57:10,11 113:4 Meeting [nay - nuremberg] 151:11 214:19 nays 242:22 nazi 62:13 63:6 63:12 near 35:20 90:9 215:18 nearly 30:21 153:12 201:2 230:5 neat 138:2,2 necessarily 31:14 37:8,14 59:14 95:8 102:3 122:12 160:15 173:9 necessary 107:16 108:6 112:1 127:17 128:12 236:17 neck 122:7 141:3 157:17 158:6,6 necklace 122:15,16 150:21 157:3 need 14:5 34:13 47:7 48:15 57:1 86:10 95:8 98:12,15,17 101:6 112:11 116:16 142:10 176:18 183:21 186:21 223:21 228:13 231:14 232:5 236:22 237:3 October 24, 2023 Page 42 needed 29:14 99:7 141:9 152:17 178:14 needs 33:14 50:5 110:1 135:4 143:2 222:22 negative 46:10 178:10 225:9 negro 114:5 142:19 neighborhood 216:1 neighborhoods 164:16 neither 126:10 245:11 246:7 net 219:8,16 220:21 netflix 30:9 neutral 100:21 never 33:17 64:20 94:7 114:11 122:15 128:2 204:3 208:6 new 5:7 15:9 31:1 62:6 79:8 152:18 215:19 237:10 newest 15:6 newly 62:14 news 10:18 nice 40:12 45:4 45:5 92:8,11 92:15 165:14 165:16 221:6 225:19 226:19 238:21 nicely 41:11 45:17 182:10 nickname 75:11 152:12 172:8,10 nine 7:17 185:5 213:16 noble 84:13 non 46:4 209:16 217:12 nope 65:13 237:4 normally 95:7 177:8 north 28:15 29:5,8,9 northwest 1:10 notary 245:18 note 12:19 89:3 92:5,9 117:22 118:7 163:18 202:22 221:9 noted 37:1,6 116:12 notes 51:17 219:13 notice 145:12 noticed 122:3 122:11 124:4,8 noting 138:3 219:16 noun 142:13 novel 63:5 number 55:9,9 84:18 103:18 129:18 131:13 134:12 138:15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 139:19 147:9 150:7,8,9 157:2 160:10 160:14 163:12 164:6,18 165:18 167:6 167:18,19 168:6 169:22 170:4,9,13 182:1,1,3,9 183:8,11 185:3 186:12,16 187:2 189:6,7 191:7 200:10 200:22 201:2 202:9,22 203:5 203:13 204:3,5 204:18 205:2 205:10 211:20 212:3 213:14 213:17 219:5 221:5,18 223:3 231:17 232:9 234:12,21 235:13,16 238:5 239:9 numerous 203:20 numismatic 3:9 9:14 19:17 20:7,8 25:20 243:19 numismatics 3:7 9:11 nuremberg 61:22 63:4,15 65:3 70:3 Meeting [nuremburg - opportunities] nuremburg 96:1 nursing 153:19 nurture 153:10 o o 5:1 6:1 7:1 o'clock 7:17 oath 15:17 16:21,22 obama 30:5 object 108:8 objection 52:7 108:5 objections 14:21 234:13 obligation 17:19,22 obscured 50:11 observation 53:9 230:3 observational 192:11 observations 86:20 192:7 199:15 observatories 193:13 observatory 193:4 195:17 198:11,12,13 199:22 206:9 206:10 207:14 208:11 209:18 observe 208:21 observing 193:7 obstacle 193:21 obtaining 20:5 obverse 27:9 61:14 65:16,20 67:1 69:1,6,19 70:1,12 72:1,2 73:5,17 74:10 74:10 80:6,8 84:14,17 85:12 85:21,22 86:2 89:12 90:2 91:18 93:2 94:9 96:6,14 97:10 102:18 103:15,16,16 103:17,19,19 103:20,20,21 104:2,2,3,3,17 104:17,22 106:9 obviously 128:18 133:6 146:1 october 1:5 7:12 152:11 offensive 160:14 offer 97:7 106:6 109:8 116:21 187:17 198:1 214:5 offering 109:1 169:20 offerings 16:16 offers 64:9 office 3:10,16 3:18 11:5 12:12,15 15:17 October 24, 2023 Page 43 16:21 18:3,6 26:13 41:19 61:12 115:17 officer 109:12 245:2 officially 15:22 59:7 193:11 officials 63:6 63:12 oh 10:6 20:19 20:21 52:17 85:15,17 110:11 166:16 190:20 197:18 okay 8:13 14:20 18:8,15 39:4 57:5 60:11 65:11,15 65:18 67:6,13 67:21,22 68:3 68:5,11 72:18 73:3 75:21 77:15 80:11 81:13 85:17,20 86:1 93:11 94:17 100:11 102:11,15 103:2,6,10 107:7 109:1 121:12 122:19 124:2 130:20 151:3 158:13 158:19 172:2,9 187:16 188:2 188:14,20 189:16 190:18 206:21 212:5 213:7 222:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 224:6 237:19 240:2 242:11 242:13,17 old 62:5 84:22 85:5 132:22 164:9 olive 70:17 71:1,7 80:13 92:6 omitted 153:3 once 55:14 61:11 69:13 100:16 103:15 104:16 131:2 150:13 166:1 189:5 213:16 216:17 ones 77:9 94:13 117:11 138:19 163:6 177:6 212:10 222:20 225:11 online 8:8,9 16:15 18:20 77:7 open 15:11 16:15 127:15 131:3 165:16 216:7 opencoursew... 16:17 openly 115:9 opinion 94:16 99:11 opinions 33:1 opportunities 48:15 Meeting [opportunity - particular] opportunity 18:21 183:20 204:19 210:1 210:15 232:18 opposed 56:10 57:10,10 77:12 94:13 113:4 151:11 173:17 174:7,19 207:17 214:19 223:5 233:8 opposite 24:15 option 142:14 order 5:3 7:10 14:7 15:5 49:5 130:4 140:14 166:1 197:8 243:12 ordinarily 96:7 96:12 organization 30:4 63:14 142:19 152:22 153:2,4,6,12 156:2 165:6 organizations 29:8,20 organizer 29:18 34:16 orient 162:7 orients 162:16 162:21 origin 192:13 original 156:8 165:2 originally 27:11 173:4,9 173:17 204:4 ought 31:6 outcome 245:16 246:12 outdated 24:14 outdoor 173:1 outdoors 171:14 outer 144:2 156:9 outgoing 33:18 outlaw 64:2 outline 203:18 outreached 51:11 52:3 outreaching 51:14 outside 140:4 238:5 outsized 38:5 outstanding 39:17 44:21 165:19 243:2 outstretched 230:7 overall 26:18 200:1 226:4 235:19 239:8 overbearing 203:17 overcame 47:11 193:20 overcoming 41:21 overdue 142:7 overlook 141:13 overpower 42:16 October 24, 2023 Page 44 overpowered 42:3 overseas 154:1 216:17 oversees 16:15 overstated 172:22 overwhelming 25:9 own 74:22 200:16 owned 114:14 114:15 p p 2:1,1 3:1,1 4:1,1 7:1 p.m. 7:15 244:3 package 204:16 223:1 packaged 204:15 pad 136:6 paddle 215:21 page 5:2 6:2 144:13 pages 111:15 pain 33:14 pair 88:6 paired 156:10 pairing 199:21 palette 46:8 168:19 222:12 palm 36:20 palomar 193:4 193:5,12 pam 3:4 11:13 207:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 panel 21:3 22:18 23:10 55:7 panels 21:3,6 paper 144:20 193:8 papers 134:9 135:12 parity 193:16 park 4:8,10,11 4:12 5:12 13:17,18,19,20 13:21 26:12 28:12,13 31:19 31:22 35:15,16 45:8 54:4 part 22:18 36:13 47:2,10 79:3,12,13 98:8,9 100:2 153:17 162:6 171:14 231:16 participants 30:22 participate 33:2 232:18 participated 20:12 191:20 participating 7:19 59:6 243:14 participation 22:12 113:7 151:17 215:2,3 particular 22:21 43:20 47:9 74:16 95:22 97:13 Meeting [particular - photo] 100:15 129:3 144:16,16 159:8 177:5,18 181:16 206:8 particularly 48:7 49:9 58:12 68:19,21 77:14 78:11 89:13 96:18 97:18 109:17 160:5 201:4,9 207:8 222:10 233:22 parties 245:12 245:14 246:8 246:11 pass 163:1 184:12 passage 29:3 passed 31:4 34:18 passes 243:1 passing 35:3 57:19 passion 19:1,4 28:22 193:19 passions 153:10 path 64:9 patience 218:13 239:12 243:5 patton 62:11 patton's 79:4 paul 4:15 10:16 pause 58:13 155:14 188:12 October 24, 2023 Page 45 paved 218:3 228:5,9 peace 64:21 71:9 83:7 91:1 97:1 peaceful 64:10 peak 206:13,16 206:20 pedestal 24:19 peering 207:11 peers 192:17 pen 114:8 134:5 139:18 142:17 144:19 pennsylvania 20:10 people 23:15 24:1 30:6,16 34:13,22 41:12 44:1,19 48:11 48:16 52:11,18 52:19 57:20,22 59:10 64:20 68:13,17 78:2 83:5 86:11 101:6 108:8 109:10 112:3 112:11 114:3 115:11 128:19 138:8,19 143:20 145:15 146:10 147:6 147:21 164:13 165:7 174:12 174:13,20 177:1,15 179:5 179:6 190:5 207:6 208:12 222:16 227:22 228:7,9 236:3 people's 146:9 percent 46:7 192:13 perfect 68:1,7 perfectly 138:20 181:10 225:13 232:4 performance 230:9 performed 81:8 period 77:19 83:18 95:12 180:8 220:10 periods 71:5 93:11,12 95:6 95:6,14 100:20 105:2,16,18,20 106:1,6,17 107:12,16 108:6,13 permanently 33:11 perpetuated 62:18 63:6 persevered 192:18 193:6 person 41:20 76:7 86:5 109:12 110:7,8 142:7 216:7,22 217:12,14 personal 25:1,2 90:7 145:19 163:18 212:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 personality 40:5 48:17 personally 21:8 126:8 153:14 160:6 persons 29:2 perspective 210:16 perspectives 210:3 persuasive 185:16 192:7 pete 123:4 peter 3:8 9:13 14:18 39:22 40:2 57:3 60:20 71:20,20 84:3,6 85:4 88:2,3 105:13 106:14 108:15 127:10 128:5 132:11,14 139:3 156:21 169:15,18 170:22 182:16 187:22 205:4,6 214:2,6 224:2 224:5 peter's 139:11 148:20 phenomenal 174:15,20 phone 7:19 35:4 44:12,15 52:11,20 59:6 170:6 photo 138:9 234:16 Meeting [photograph - points] photograph 74:20,21 124:18 143:6 206:20 photographic 74:17 photographs 73:18 74:22 photos 234:18 phrase 99:4 101:10 102:4 174:4 208:4,6 phrased 76:1 phrases 136:5 physical 108:1 134:8 216:13 physicality 181:9 pick 47:7 171:22 picked 171:21 picking 207:12 226:10 picks 176:6 picture 78:13 179:8 207:6 225:7 picture's 47:3 pictured 195:17 pictures 77:3 122:15 171:2 piece 95:4 141:2 144:14 183:1 193:8 237:9 pieces 226:17 October 24, 2023 Page 46 pin 73:4,10,16 74:14,16 75:1 76:3,5,7,9 84:9 86:6 ping 222:1 pins 75:8 pinstripes 72:3 pioneered 192:6 pittsburgh 20:10,18,19 21:2 place 31:10 45:11 47:4 95:7 96:9 136:2 145:21 153:8 201:9 placed 47:5 201:5 placement 134:14 places 36:19 154:5 placing 148:21 planchet 39:8 40:12 168:14 planes 203:16 203:20 platform 16:10 217:22 platforms 115:22 play 216:2 played 193:12 player 217:14 playful 202:14 203:1 playing 215:21 219:9 plea 65:21 please 7:20 8:1 10:22 17:5 19:9 36:13 38:16,19 39:1 54:8 56:8,21 60:4,5 69:22 74:4 81:18 82:20 83:9 86:7 87:10 117:14 125:18 132:8 135:15 149:18 155:18 157:15 159:1 161:8 175:12 175:14,21 184:12 185:13 190:14 191:21 197:3,11 198:20 199:12 199:17 211:6 212:16 220:9 220:11 238:3 239:17 pleased 66:20 67:10 68:21 69:9 154:12 213:13 218:19 plenty 167:19 plight 115:10 plug 68:3 pluribus 31:21 40:16 47:8,13 116:10 123:15 127:18 128:9 139:4 148:21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 154:9 165:12 194:3 208:19 218:7 podium 70:2 70:11 74:13 90:8 poignant 47:9 point 7:15 23:10 38:19 42:4 45:3 49:19 50:16 86:12 89:13 95:9,10,11 104:12,15 107:20 112:22 124:21 125:2 130:4 140:20 143:1 147:20 148:3 161:14 166:3 183:20 194:22 198:1 212:12 221:18 230:19 232:5 234:6,7 235:17 pointed 87:20 137:14 pointing 44:19 points 55:8,8 55:11,12,12,13 55:14,15 87:21 90:12 91:7 103:16,16,17 103:17,19,20 103:20,21,21 103:22,22,22 104:1,1,2,3,3,7 104:7,8,8,9,9 104:10,10,11 Meeting [points - present] 104:12,13,14 104:14 136:8 139:13 150:9 150:10,10,11 150:13,13,15 167:10 172:17 185:4,8,10 213:15,16,18 221:15 234:21 240:10,11,13 240:14,14,15 poise 218:1 police 216:2 polished 230:16 237:20 political 15:14 115:17 pong 222:1 pool 23:21 24:3 pop 237:16 poppy 226:13 pops 135:20,20 portfolio 19:13 26:1 28:12 39:17 65:5 73:13 82:2 85:1,2 94:8 131:13 133:9 200:1 202:3 226:5 227:10 227:18 portfolios 202:10 portion 40:16 portrait 27:10 40:6 43:16 45:17 84:14,16 84:17,18 133:2 October 24, 2023 Page 47 133:4,21,21 134:7,7 137:2 141:4 146:14 147:3 160:6,7 170:14 181:10 202:1 205:12 220:18,22 222:17,17 227:12 229:17 230:5 portraits 84:21 84:22 portrayal 224:9 portrayed 44:18 160:8,22 170:12 portrays 161:2 166:10 219:6 pose 43:21 71:18 posed 208:10 posing 226:8 position 16:22 47:12 52:7 129:18 198:6 positioned 121:1 positioning 51:20 134:14 positive 69:8 225:9 possible 48:19 51:13 55:8,8 103:15 106:11 127:14 128:8 185:4,14 219:19,22 225:16 241:4 post 61:21 posture 35:10 52:4 potentially 236:9 poverty 79:9 powell 152:20 power 30:2 114:7 226:9 227:13 powerful 41:20 99:6 116:1 227:5 practice 63:19 precedent 64:12 prefaced 182:2 prefer 77:1 120:17,20 121:7 136:21 166:1,16 167:19 178:22 230:1 preference 36:11 40:9 47:14 48:20 56:2 84:11,12 84:20 89:3,18 117:21 118:6 120:10 121:14 130:7 134:21 158:2 173:8 179:15 223:5 224:7 230:2 preferences 35:7,13 155:16 156:5,12 173:5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 173:6 194:19 195:7 198:9 212:8 preferred 36:3 37:2,14,21 69:21 70:5,20 71:11 72:1,2 74:10 75:13 77:4 80:8 117:11 118:8 119:8 121:9 149:6 166:16 195:14,19 205:11 212:9 219:11 prefers 197:17 preparation 219:9 prepared 154:1 194:13 246:3 prepares 144:20 preparing 35:21 62:10 present 8:2,5 8:16,19,22 9:3 9:6,9,12,15 10:9,22 11:3,6 11:9,12,14,17 11:20,22 12:3 12:7,10,14,17 26:15 32:7 55:4,7 60:2,4,6 60:13,15,17,19 60:21 61:1,3,5 61:13 62:4 113:18 150:6 185:2 240:7 Meeting [presentation - prosecute] presentation 23:4 100:22 presentations 100:18 presented 28:8 presenting 155:20 presentist 228:2 presents 35:9 preservation 19:5 president 30:5 30:6 217:15 press 10:13 63:11 114:19 217:1 pressure 191:3 prestigious 17:2 presume 72:14 pretty 76:19 204:1 236:5 previous 21:12 176:1 previously 116:12 238:18 pride 79:4 210:5 printed 168:15 printhead 168:16 printing 114:19 prior 184:6 245:5 private 63:18 101:11 privilege 116:22 probably 40:20 41:1 89:18 129:16 144:5 145:10,19 167:9 174:21 problem 34:16 74:9 124:6 126:9 127:13 133:6 168:6 170:3 205:22 228:10 problematic 52:1 procedurally 106:10 proceed 108:17 125:18 238:3 proceeding 246:4 proceedings 10:11 152:17 245:3,5,6,9 246:6 process 22:6,9 23:18 27:2 32:18 58:18 66:12 151:18 161:22 218:18 218:20 220:12 produce 222:22 produced 110:15 192:10 producers 30:13 October 24, 2023 Page 48 production 129:6 productions 16:19 products 57:21 profession 88:16,17 135:13 professional 217:8,13 professor 15:10 16:3 217:17 professors 193:19 profile 84:18 84:22 195:10 205:12 208:16 program 13:4 14:3 16:14 24:8 26:14,18 27:8,10,16 31:9 38:13,19 39:16,19 49:17 50:22 58:2 61:13,18 97:18 100:2 113:9,13 113:15,18 129:3,3,6 168:10,11 177:2 181:3,6 182:13 196:17 212:19 227:20 232:20,22 243:6,21 programs 232:15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 progression 162:21 project 59:15 projects 125:3 172:13 prolific 113:21 144:21 prominence 108:1,3 141:18 141:21 prominent 26:21 27:18 47:12 50:6 73:5 129:19 181:8 prominently 35:18 70:16 88:22 promote 64:1 promoting 30:9,13 64:19 153:11 promptly 7:17 pronounced 166:18 proof 31:6 230:15 237:19 242:4 propelled 28:18 proposal 141:14 proposed 106:5 108:18 pros 131:4 prosecute 62:17 98:6 Meeting [prosecutor - questions] prosecutor 63:10 65:2 proud 9:17 21:16,16 28:17 33:3 35:16 79:6 151:20 204:9 232:16 237:18 proudly 117:18 provide 19:14 24:5 25:1 56:13 103:12 112:11 149:18 197:1 213:11 242:2 provided 23:2 33:5 36:15 49:21 50:14 97:20 113:17 192:7 provider 24:17 providing 59:3 151:16 public 1:1 2:4,7 2:10 5:6 7:13 7:18 8:4,15 9:17 10:14 14:10 16:7,10 18:22 19:4,4 19:17 20:1,3 22:1,2,5,8,12 24:20 25:12,20 46:6 47:22 48:16 59:5 87:14 110:22 111:5 117:7 129:11 142:9 170:10 176:16 179:19 180:13 180:14 191:19 243:11,14 245:18 publicly 78:18 published 124:16 143:4 puking 78:3 pull 200:21 pulled 201:6 punctuation 71:4 80:14 88:8 91:8 92:5 93:4,8,10,21 95:9 101:1 106:17 107:2 108:11 punish 64:2 purpose 17:20 18:1 31:18 90:16,22 purposes 125:8 pursue 114:22 pushback 218:2 pushed 193:17 pushing 144:2 144:3 193:21 put 95:8,10,10 95:12 98:14 111:11 127:14 136:21 139:5 177:16 181:9 181:14 197:13 212:17 223:6 puts 174:1 putting 129:17 129:20 141:12 October 24, 2023 Page 49 141:15 183:5 238:10 q quadrant 37:6 qualified 2:11 2:17 3:7,8 8:18 9:5,11,14 15:9 17:1 245:7 qualities 116:4 quality 39:18 quarter 13:7 13:11,15,21 14:3 26:12,21 27:13 39:20 40:12 46:12,13 46:18 54:5 57:21 84:16,20 121:1 127:18 128:10 129:4 139:3 142:6 145:10 147:6 148:21 149:16 151:21 152:6 167:8,16,17 168:11,14,19 170:15 171:21 174:19 177:2 179:8 180:3 182:22 184:10 192:3 207:12 212:15 215:14 quarters 5:11 5:17,20 6:4,7 10:5 13:4 26:3 26:8 27:1,7 28:9 57:18 113:13,15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 129:6 171:21 178:4 179:2 194:22 195:1 231:12 question 20:16 40:14 51:10 72:4,12,22 73:3 74:3,4,14 76:2,12,13 78:4 80:4,17 93:5 95:5 102:1 110:18 112:10 123:7,9 123:21 124:11 125:20,21 126:4,5,21 127:12 129:1 144:9 157:2 158:8 196:5 203:13 206:6 234:6 236:1,6 238:1 240:17 241:19 questions 20:2 38:12,18 58:14 69:16 71:17,22 72:1 80:1 81:18 102:16 117:3,9 118:21 120:6 121:22 124:9 125:16 126:20 132:4 147:11 148:10 156:20 158:20 161:4,17,21 175:9 194:14 196:1,19 219:1 220:6,10 234:3 Meeting [quick - really] quick 51:9 60:1 76:13 119:4 quickly 119:5 181:17 quicksand 207:16 quite 40:7,11 40:12 69:8 72:9 90:5,13 90:15 91:2 94:8,14 100:22 160:13,21 163:4 170:14 172:3 179:2 182:10 187:9 208:17 224:12 226:12,18 227:3 235:5 239:10 quorum 9:19 quote 79:16 181:5 quotes 79:19 r r 2:1 3:1 4:1 7:1 race 115:15 racially 28:1 racism 114:7 racist 218:1 racket 220:20 224:11 racquet 219:6 219:21 221:16 221:17 radiating 195:5 October 24, 2023 Page 50 raining 223:17 raise 17:5 114:22 188:5,6 188:10 189:1 189:10 190:5,6 190:7,15,19 raised 28:15 40:15,19 191:2 191:4,6 197:20 208:14 234:6 234:12 raising 172:19 191:7 rallied 219:15 ran 115:14 range 30:21 51:20 rank 63:2 227:9 ranking 63:5 158:3 241:13 ranks 216:5 rather 25:3 42:12,17 48:8 75:10 84:13,15 84:16 89:19 95:12 105:15 118:10 121:15 121:16,17 131:12 135:6 139:8 144:22 179:13,20 205:8,20 226:8 ratification 102:2 rationale 106:14 reach 64:10 179:10 reaching 21:2 reacting 222:17 reaction 145:21 read 33:6 36:9 36:13 48:13 65:12,16 69:20 69:22 117:14 142:17 155:18 208:11 readily 46:5 reading 132:19 132:20,22 155:16 reads 139:21 140:6 ready 103:8 real 29:15 74:20 96:22 173:15 realistic 75:17 realize 99:2 162:19 really 15:13 18:20 21:13 22:14 23:3,11 23:12 24:2,11 24:18 34:7 40:12 41:20 42:6 43:3 45:4 45:10,17 47:4 48:1 50:15 58:2 79:20 82:2,13 83:7 83:14 84:15,16 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 84:22 85:2 86:22 87:8,12 90:13,15,22 91:2,6,9,17,22 92:7 94:20 95:3,12 97:18 97:22 98:2,19 99:2,9,10,12 108:6 113:10 126:13 128:3 132:20 133:2 136:5,5 137:6 141:17 143:18 146:21 147:1 151:17 155:11 160:8,10,11,12 162:16 163:2 165:3,8,11,14 165:15 167:7 167:15 169:1 169:10,11 170:3,13 171:9 172:12 174:10 183:9,17 191:18 199:1,3 199:13 202:19 203:15,21 204:19 208:6,7 211:21 215:2,3 219:15 221:6 222:8 223:2,13 223:21 224:8 224:12 225:3 226:14,21 227:1,10 228:18 229:4 231:12 232:4 232:15,16 Meeting [really - relationship] 233:8,21 236:17 reason 42:14 108:7,9 110:21 137:3 144:5 159:6 160:2,18 164:7 179:22 180:5 199:1 202:11 209:14 211:21 228:6 228:12 230:12 reasonable 127:6 reasonably 167:21 reasons 44:10 92:16 108:9 137:14 143:15 177:20 207:5 212:3 receded 40:19 receive 25:20 received 16:4 19:18 54:6 55:9,10,11,11 55:12 104:15 150:7,8,9,9,10 150:11,11,12 150:13 157:8 185:3,4,5,5,6,6 185:7,7,8,9 213:15,15,16 213:16 234:18 240:10,11,11 240:12,12,13 240:13,14,14 240:19,20 241:6,6,7 October 24, 2023 Page 51 242:15 recently 179:7 receptive 127:2 recess 7:15,16 57:16,19 59:7 184:14,17 213:1 243:16 recessed 108:3 recipient 78:7 157:20 166:4 reclusive 33:16 recognition 16:13 32:17 61:20 64:6 89:16 125:8 recognizable 147:4 167:15 167:16 recognize 55:3 55:19,20 103:11 150:5 166:22 177:8 185:1 213:11 240:6 recognized 38:20 125:9 147:8 177:7 recommend 55:22 91:8 104:22 105:2 150:19 185:14 186:4,12 187:8 189:9 213:22 recommenda... 37:3 45:19 56:14 70:6,20 88:7 115:20 117:12,22 119:9 122:17 156:13 172:14 195:9 219:12 241:14 recommenda... 43:6 67:10 recommended 2:8,13,15 3:5 8:7,20 9:1,8 recommending 189:3 reconfigurati... 149:1 reconvene 243:17 record 10:20 12:20 36:16 53:4 54:19,21 58:9 59:17 103:4,5 149:22 184:19 212:21 212:22 213:6 239:20 240:1 241:17 245:9 246:5 recorded 245:6 recording 245:8 246:4 records 217:9 recruited 63:3 redesign 26:19 129:13 reduce 167:7 reduced 245:7 refer 110:17 reference 73:18 111:18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 referenced 92:10 references 74:17 144:18 referred 75:2 reflect 95:21 159:14 reflecting 116:5 reflects 159:7 195:6 196:14 refrain 38:19 81:18 220:11 refused 192:18 regard 23:15 24:8 47:12 83:8 140:19 214:7 regarding 38:13 regardless 47:6 153:7 regime 62:13 regularly 143:3 reich 62:19 reigning 216:9 228:3 reinforced 234:17 relatable 179:10 relate 24:22 related 24:6,7 100:19 245:11 246:7 relationship 90:10 Meeting [relative - rest] relative 245:13 246:10 relevance 179:21 relief 93:9,16 107:21 remainder 215:6 remained 216:17 remark 132:16 remarkable 230:15,18 remember 7:4 46:12 232:6 remembered 35:10 43:19 remind 7:18 38:15 46:2 52:10 81:16 161:19 196:22 220:8 reminded 129:11 reminder 59:9 reminding 132:5 186:3 reminds 199:4 199:5,9 201:4 remote 161:10 remotely 10:14 removal 71:4 remove 131:5 removed 93:11 105:2 107:12 143:2 removing 37:9 80:13 88:7 October 24, 2023 Page 52 91:8 148:20 repeat 17:6 74:4 143:13 157:9,14 159:11 repeated 161:12 replace 64:18 99:4 101:13 replaced 38:1 118:2 119:11 replacement 76:9 replacing 101:9 report 213:13 243:19,20 reported 1:19 reportedly 193:9 reporter 38:22 52:13 54:18 59:14 81:20 103:8,9 110:8 110:11 132:8 151:4 157:10 162:1 197:2 212:20 220:12 reporter's 155:1 represent 25:16 70:18 71:10 representation 45:18 48:2 50:13 88:18 126:18 176:20 176:21 183:8 186:6 193:17 233:11 representative 144:22 145:5 207:1 representatives 19:22 25:2,2 28:7 116:13 117:6 196:12 represented 72:3,15 87:14 148:3 160:13 176:5 177:2 180:17 233:2 representing 2:3,7,10 8:3,14 9:17 82:3 155:22 159:16 159:17 165:6 233:3,3 represents 118:10 210:1 request 118:1 119:10 requested 121:3 required 31:20 116:9 154:8 156:11 194:2 218:6 requires 26:19 50:2 requiring 29:4 research 19:3 192:16 193:14 196:13 resemblance 239:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 reservation 17:19,22 reservations 167:6 residential 16:19 resolution 165:10 resolve 64:20 resonate 229:9 resource 25:15 respect 56:6,15 56:17 57:14 68:15 83:7,14 89:11,17,20 106:14 108:20 109:6 126:22 131:15 135:7 143:22 175:1,8 233:22 243:20 respectfully 200:18 209:5 respecting 33:1 respond 8:2 106:14 147:16 response 56:13 146:2 responsibility 25:14 154:4 responsible 62:17 responsive 24:15 25:7 responsiveness 24:12 rest 94:10 181:14 225:3 Meeting [resting - rubin] resting 52:5 140:2 restitution 63:16 restriction 129:2,7 restroom 193:6 result 185:18 results 55:4 103:13 150:6 185:2 213:12 213:12 240:7 retired 217:5 return 59:8 returning 58:7 58:10 150:1 reveals 115:21 134:4 reverse 26:2,10 26:15 27:16 54:4 61:14 65:17,22 67:1 68:22 69:6 70:14,15 71:12 71:12 72:13,13 80:10,17 85:12 86:11,12,15 88:6,14 89:4 89:17 90:13 92:3,4,16 93:2 93:3 94:16,18 96:21,21 102:18 104:6,7 104:7,8,9,11 104:12,12,13 104:13,14,14 104:17 105:2 105:17 113:14 October 24, 2023 Page 53 113:19 152:5 181:6 184:9 185:3,4,5,5,6 192:2 212:14 215:12 reverses 104:6 review 5:4,10 5:13,16,19 6:3 6:6 10:1,3 14:8 19:12 26:2 35:6 57:17 61:9 66:21 77:7 131:12 152:5 192:1 215:12 reviewed 28:4 172:20 reviewing 145:9 revise 106:12 revised 179:16 revisit 219:19 219:20 revolution 30:10 31:2 rewards 134:3 148:4 reworking 37:5 rich 182:3 rid 225:21 right 15:21 17:5 36:20 40:15 41:3 47:2,19 69:18 76:10 91:12 95:17 96:3 97:6 109:5 142:4,10 143:9 148:16 149:4 154:3 155:9,13 163:14 168:9 168:11,22 169:2 173:21 177:7,7 187:2 191:15 194:18 201:7,17 204:16 208:2,9 225:18 226:6 230:18 231:9 232:6 rights 27:21 29:1,13 30:12 113:22 115:6 115:13 116:3 117:20 118:2,3 119:12 121:5 121:10,18,18 123:14 127:4,8 128:11,17,21 134:1 136:1 139:6,8 140:8 141:19 142:12 148:16 149:4,7 192:20 rim 123:16 124:7 141:12 141:15 144:2 156:9 174:7 ring 124:17 126:1,3 133:14 141:1 143:7 145:12 rise 241:3 rivaled 114:14 rivets 183:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 robert 152:20 robinson 235:8 robust 129:16 191:12 roger 3:3 11:10 role 16:14 44:19 98:4 193:12 roll 5:3 60:1 romania 62:4 room 18:19 23:2 49:2 52:18,22 57:20 75:5 124:5 193:9,10 rose 47:10 216:4 rotation 192:6 rotations 206:19 round 92:13 rounds 217:9 rubin 4:5,5,6,6 4:7,7 6:5 13:12 13:13,13,14,14 192:3,5,15,18 193:4,10,14,17 193:20 194:2,4 194:8,12 195:4 195:10,16 196:5,8,9,16 197:16,21,22 198:11 199:3 199:20 201:22 206:17,18 210:22 211:5,7 211:8,12,16,18 212:5,6,14 Meeting [rubin - scouts] 215:1,10 rubin's 192:10 rubins 194:7 ruggedness 173:1 ruining 204:2 ruins 223:17 rule 62:1 64:9 64:18,18 79:18 run 7:14 107:21 115:17 123:11,15 124:5 runs 40:17 ruptured 75:3 76:9 82:10 russel 11:15 russell 3:13 s s 2:1 3:1 4:1 5:1 6:1 7:1 sadly 31:3 34:17 sake 105:4 109:9 110:22 salute 181:22 salutes 182:5 saunders 2:13 8:20,22 41:6,7 61:4,5 80:16 80:16 81:1,4 94:5 122:21 138:14 144:9 145:1 151:2,6 170:20,21 172:6,9 178:3 206:6,14 207:3 October 24, 2023 Page 54 224:19,21 236:1,12 237:4 241:15 savannah 152:11 153:5 saves 134:13 saw 94:17 116:6 122:15 135:18 171:1 202:10 224:22 saying 15:1 32:15 56:8 57:8 60:4 79:17 91:4 98:19 112:9 113:2 121:15 127:3,4 130:16 168:5,5 170:7 177:14 188:20 237:20 239:1,3 says 87:8 92:14 120:9 127:8 167:14 171:21 182:15 186:3 235:6,6 scale 51:3 88:20 137:8 139:20 170:1 170:15 237:19 scales 70:17 71:7 87:7,17 87:19 88:17,22 89:4,5 scarinci 3:5 9:7 9:9 20:14,15 20:19,21 39:3 39:4,4 53:3,3 60:14,15 130:4 130:11,20 131:7,20 133:13 159:22 160:17 161:3 168:4 204:8 222:16 240:17 240:20 241:3 242:14 scary 146:12 scheduled 7:14 7:16 scholarly 19:2 scholars 28:4 126:11 172:21 196:12 217:20 scholarship 62:7 79:10 school 29:6 62:7 79:9 84:22 85:6 schools 29:5 152:13 science 27:22 31:7 193:16 199:8 208:6,8 209:10 210:13 sciences 193:17 208:5 scientific 192:8 193:18 scientist 209:6 209:10,16 210:4 scientists 208:7 210:6 score 54:3 102:18 103:18 149:15,17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 184:9,11 211:4 212:13 scores 54:9 213:12,12 scoresheets 54:8 scoring 54:16 55:4,6,10,14 86:9,9 103:13 104:11 150:6 150:12,14 185:2 212:13 236:19,20 239:14,16 240:7,15 scout 153:17 154:7 155:21 156:8 163:21 164:22 165:1 166:3 172:7 181:21 182:4 scouting 158:9 164:11,13 171:13,15,16 171:22 scouts 152:20 153:1,4,11,15 153:21 155:20 156:10 164:7 164:14 168:8 168:22 170:7 171:3,12 173:16,21 174:5 175:4 176:3,4 178:13 179:7 181:11 181:16 182:6,8 182:17 186:5 Meeting [scribe - service] scribe 72:10 sculpt 72:8 sculpted 27:11 sculpture 2:18 9:5 search 75:19 searches 170:6 second 14:17 14:19 15:5 20:5 56:3 57:2 57:4 65:10 71:11 89:19 105:9,18 113:14 130:13 131:9 145:20 151:1,2,4,5,6 156:12 178:7,9 178:14 186:14 186:16 187:5,6 187:20,22 214:2 221:18 236:13,22 241:15,16 seconded 112:21 seconder 110:1 secondly 122:6 178:6 seconds 56:4 151:3 secretary 5:5 9:22 14:10 19:22 25:16 26:20 27:3 56:1,17 105:1 150:19 185:15 191:11 219:20 241:14 October 24, 2023 Page 55 section 215:21 secure 64:13 see 22:11 24:20 46:7 50:9 57:20,22 65:19 66:1 77:8 85:1 87:14 90:17 99:8 118:4 119:10,13 121:2,4 123:10 123:13 134:6 136:6,21 141:9 151:21 159:3 163:19 164:10 164:11,17 166:13 169:8,9 171:16,17 176:8,17,18 177:10,18 180:9,10 181:22 183:2 190:4 200:2 209:11,19 211:9 212:1 221:17 223:2 225:3,15 228:12,18,20 230:16 232:9 233:1,13,13,14 233:15 235:18 238:13 seeing 42:18 61:8 67:17 77:10 81:15 83:1 177:5 179:7 210:18 220:7 221:6 238:15 seek 110:6,14 seeking 34:12 seem 84:19 123:17 130:5 144:1 223:16 223:16 seemed 175:2,4 seems 34:1 40:17 67:6 73:4 98:3 137:4 145:15 205:13 208:10 236:5 seen 39:19 44:12 94:7 120:14 121:14 128:2 147:3 160:9 201:11 222:19 sees 179:19 select 17:2 selected 27:2 219:20 235:19 selection 67:2 semicolons 108:21,22 senate 2:15 3:5 9:2,8 115:15 send 54:10 168:21 sends 155:10 senior 2:19,22 3:3,15 4:15 10:17 11:7,10 12:8,11 15:10 sense 22:7 98:15 174:21 181:2 200:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 200:11 201:13 203:5 224:9 226:15 227:6 228:2,13 230:19 236:21 237:2 senseless 114:16 sent 216:16 234:15 sentence 95:8 175:6 seoul 28:14 32:13 sergeant 63:2 series 28:10 76:17 80:22 96:7,18 137:4 179:1,3 180:3 198:9 199:6 204:22 serious 202:15 203:2 seriously 25:14 serve 18:21,22 25:14 217:14 222:9 226:16 served 29:19 83:3 98:11 serves 16:12 163:14 service 61:20 63:1 70:19 71:10 75:10 79:13 83:4,5 83:21 98:10 112:4,5 153:16 154:5 176:9,13 Meeting [service - situation] 186:5 serviceable 229:17 session 7:14,16 9:20 set 108:2 230:3 237:17 set's 237:16 settling 62:6 seven 20:12 55:9,13 103:22 104:1,3,13 172:12 185:6 sevens 82:19 83:9,11 seventh 215:22 several 21:3 35:12 36:2 73:5 138:19 166:6 217:9 236:3 sexism 114:6 192:15 shaded 40:18 shakes 184:7 shannon 4:3 13:8 154:13,15 shape 53:7 71:2 107:14 193:8 share 20:1,12 36:2 50:21 57:19 67:11 77:18 78:6 88:14 129:11 145:17 146:5 172:18 178:21 180:3 208:4 October 24, 2023 Page 56 210:15 211:1 218:14 233:6 236:15 sharecroppers 215:18 shared 48:22 97:21 143:15 143:16 210:3 sharing 19:5 30:16 43:12 82:16 180:1 she'd 33:21 shed 114:8 sheet 86:10 102:20 sheets 55:5 149:18 184:12 212:13 239:17 240:8 shield 183:3 short 31:5,14 31:15 105:19 shout 137:22 171:10 shoutout 228:17 shouts 138:18 show 22:4 23:17 32:4 46:19 72:11 75:20 83:3 141:21 162:13 167:21 186:21 187:18 189:17 208:8 235:12 237:9 242:5,6 showed 82:13 227:4 showing 35:20 47:1 81:7 90:15 126:1,3 162:20 179:13 shown 35:19 141:20 shows 24:13 35:14 82:10 83:13 84:18 91:19 163:3,13 163:15,16 164:7 166:12 171:18 183:11 200:11 201:22 202:17 228:18 shrink 46:9 shy 137:3 138:5 227:11 sic 145:6 side 66:12,13 68:14,15 195:18 221:6 237:17 sides 92:12 sign 155:21 signaling 155:1 signed 10:14 significance 50:8 73:6 95:22 98:13 109:19 111:4,6 122:12 157:4 significant 101:7 185:18 233:21 signify 15:1 56:8 57:8 113:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 signing 21:8 silence 116:1 silhouetted 37:15 44:18 silhouettes 46:18 siloed 179:11 silver 111:3 166:4,11 215:18 silverfish 157:6 157:17 similar 52:8 118:12 153:2 simple 89:5 simplicity 46:22 84:17 simplified 92:7 simply 34:13 69:12,20 74:17 89:4 224:13 singing 230:10 single 88:20 singles 217:4 sir 10:10,15 67:19,20 73:19 77:18 78:5 119:17 175:12 185:22 188:17 190:17 197:10 sister 4:11 13:19 32:12 152:21,22 235:14 sitting 237:18 situation 186:10 Meeting [six - specialist] six 55:11 119:7 172:2 size 39:8 45:16 170:15 sized 40:12 sizes 123:12 skepticism 192:17 skills 30:4 153:9 156:3 245:10 246:6 skirt 193:8 skype 66:18 slam 217:5 sleek 226:13 slight 37:5 slightly 40:21 41:2 58:7 127:16 172:22 203:4 207:9 small 33:19 74:14 80:4 168:19 182:21 183:10 221:22 smaller 49:5 90:9 139:9 smallest 72:9 smashing 21:11 smile 195:6 smiling 195:11 210:8 smithsonian 27:4 28:5 126:11 172:21 social 29:20 44:14 October 24, 2023 Page 57 society 115:22 233:1 soft 161:1 softened 173:18 softer 161:2 soldiers 153:19 153:22,22 solemnly 17:7 17:10 solid 87:8 solution 143:9 149:3 solver 34:16 solving 142:14 somebody 128:4 190:20 someday 132:21 somewhat 50:10 88:18 238:8 son 3:19 4:5,6 4:7 12:22 66:3 82:15 sonic 53:8 sons 13:13 194:7 soon 123:8 149:18 171:22 sophisticated 49:4 sorry 11:19 20:15 40:22 51:9,15 52:15 52:17 58:4 66:14 71:19 72:2,6 73:22 82:6 85:17 105:5 110:11 123:5 128:5 154:21 155:3 185:21 197:10 199:2 206:14 207:2 211:6 214:12 236:19 237:14 sort 48:22 49:8 75:8 77:9,10 77:11 91:19 96:19 146:6 147:5 170:11 207:16 208:17 230:17 231:10 234:16 sorts 182:3 sought 29:19 sound 128:1 sounds 15:4 188:21 south 28:14 114:9,21 215:18 space 27:22 37:7 46:10 92:1 99:7 123:11 136:4 139:5 148:22 165:16 207:16 221:21 226:22 232:8 spaces 141:16 spacing 149:1 219:21 spain 66:18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 spanish 153:18 speak 26:9 35:21 52:12,19 65:5 66:18 71:19,19 76:10 85:12 88:11,13 93:2 132:10 155:2 176:7 194:20 195:2 197:21 211:6 219:15 232:13 234:11 speaker 2:8 8:7 29:19 48:7 102:22 185:20 speakers 7:9 15:2 30:21 56:9 57:9 113:3 151:10 188:7 193:1,18 211:11,15,17 214:18 242:21 speaking 36:19 39:2 73:19 81:21 85:11 115:9 162:3 176:20 182:1 197:4 211:10 220:14 speaks 45:14 83:14 112:2 140:2 special 21:7 80:19 specialist 2:22 3:16 11:8 12:12 Meeting [specially - states] specially 2:11 2:17 3:7,8 8:18 9:4,10,14 15:9 specific 24:7,8 48:10 117:8 127:7 128:17 128:21 144:22 159:15 160:12 201:3 234:13 specifically 17:1 48:14 spectrum 27:20 speech 41:10 144:16 204:11 speeches 29:21 64:15 spell 141:16 spelled 182:6 spend 22:10 33:21 spent 132:18 spiral 195:5,12 195:16 199:22 spirit 32:21 spiritual 229:8 splash 102:12 spoke 22:19,21 78:17 82:9 134:10 147:18 148:19 181:4 spoken 136:18 179:5 sport 216:6 sports 216:2,21 217:18,22 spot 238:11 October 24, 2023 Page 58 squiggly 145:3 stacey 4:8,10 4:11,12 5:12 13:17,18,19,20 13:21 26:12 28:11,13 31:19 31:21 32:17 33:3,5,7,12,16 33:17,20 34:17 35:4,9,10,22 45:8 47:9 48:7 54:4 stacey's 32:11 32:13,21 34:3 34:10 35:14 40:3,5 41:9,18 43:17 staff 10:21 78:5 126:5 243:13 stafford 3:10 11:4,6 26:13 26:16 32:8 36:5 51:15 61:11,16 65:8 65:11,15 67:4 67:13 68:6,10 69:14 73:2,9 74:5,9,12 75:18 80:7,12 80:21 81:3,6 111:13,22 113:17,20 117:2 119:6,17 120:1,11,14,19 121:12 126:10 144:18 145:4 148:19 149:5 152:8,9 155:13 157:13,16 158:5,17 159:11 166:19 172:17 192:4 194:16 196:11 197:18 206:11 206:15 215:15 215:16 218:22 219:4 stage 29:21 stakeholder 24:16 36:11 stakeholders 117:13 126:13 175:19 stampede 46:15 stance 202:12 stand 59:7 155:2 203:21 208:16 243:16 standard 77:10 90:2 standing 87:7 138:9 204:21 219:7,16 227:11 228:10 233:14 standpoint 50:1,4 129:7 209:16 210:5 stands 144:19 155:22 164:6 star 78:8,8 111:1,1,3,3 stars 62:22 70:18 71:10 78:7,20 92:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 97:9,10 98:17 100:1 109:10 109:16 110:17 110:17,18 111:2,7,18,21 112:3,4 start 32:15 36:17 40:3 70:1 86:21 103:14 117:16 153:2 169:19 175:17 195:3 206:7 starting 7:6 69:19 78:21 state 29:7 39:1 52:11 81:21 115:15 132:9 162:2 193:3 197:3 216:15 220:13 stated 44:10 170:9 statement 21:13 106:18 170:11 182:17 239:4 statements 106:22 108:13 states 4:13 17:8 17:12 27:18,19 31:20 61:21 62:5 79:7 116:10 154:3,9 156:11 174:5 175:4 178:11 178:12 194:3 205:14,19 Meeting [states - support] 208:22 209:8 218:7 statewide 29:10 stationary 227:6 stationed 77:20 stature 136:20 statute 186:3 stay 25:21 129:12 212:17 stayed 21:8 243:5 staying 144:3 steadfast 71:8 stem 64:10 stepped 60:10 stick 193:9 235:15 sticking 122:2 stifle 130:21 131:2 stippling 230:17 stop 36:9 117:11 155:14 store 114:14,15 stories 198:12 story 34:21 50:1 76:5 79:14,14 83:4 84:10 208:4 straightforwa... 87:15 strange 93:22 street 1:10 215:22 October 24, 2023 Page 59 strength 23:20 24:1 29:22 strengths 153:10 strenuously 173:17 174:7 stretch 175:5 strike 72:8 striking 84:15 135:17 139:22 195:2 string 174:12 strings 221:18 stroke 223:11 strong 35:22 43:19 78:2 118:9 133:4,20 135:8 140:1 148:2 164:8 199:16 200:2,3 224:7 227:18 stronger 24:2 178:15 239:3,4 strongest 136:8 136:10 183:11 199:19 strongly 139:21 172:1 176:4 186:4 struggle 64:22 stuck 91:9 student 29:6 studious 62:6 study 183:2 193:16 studying 199:14 202:16 stuff 168:14 178:9 stunning 221:2 stunningly 220:18 style 222:11 subject 28:6 111:20 139:11 180:2 submissions 66:22 subsequent 81:9 substantially 212:9 substitution 187:17 success 21:11 25:9 218:2 successful 15:19 66:15 succinctly 185:17 sucked 200:20 sucking 207:17 sufficient 98:16 100:2 suffrage 27:21 114:4 115:8,10 117:20 118:2 121:16 133:22 136:1 142:11 146:20 suffragist 116:3 118:3 119:12 121:4 121:10,17 140:7 149:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 suggest 37:4 47:6 108:6,21 129:22 239:13 suggested 69:6 71:1 105:17 214:7 suggestion 56:18 139:2 148:20 suggestions 19:18 20:3 25:19 53:15 54:3 70:22 80:9 suggests 96:11 110:6 129:15 168:13 suit 72:3 73:8 suited 165:17 sukrita 3:14 11:21 sullivan 2:22 11:7,9 sum 182:10 summed 181:22 summer 30:11 sunflower 172:4 super 142:20 146:22 226:5 superior 222:18,20 supervision 216:2 support 17:7 17:11 20:4 31:8 40:8 Meeting [support - taught] 42:14 43:4,6 44:2,9,16 45:19 82:17 83:19 84:11 86:18 88:5 89:21 91:6 92:2,3 97:8 99:11 133:13 134:20 136:9 153:21 163:12 163:16 164:8 167:22 168:4 170:15 176:2 177:21 193:20 supporter 225:21 supporting 99:21 175:18 suppose 106:9 106:20 126:4 supposed 30:18 suppress 116:1 sure 18:14 36:14 39:7 49:22 51:2,4 54:10 59:12 67:15 72:10 74:5,21 98:12 98:16 99:12,18 124:19 128:1 142:10,21 146:4 147:3 157:11 164:14 169:12 171:8 172:4 173:6 177:20 186:7,9 191:11 192:22 218:16 219:3 October 24, 2023 Page 60 surface 107:22 237:18,20 surpasses 169:11 surrounded 70:17 195:5,12 surrounding 128:9 survive 79:18 surviving 65:2 survivors 63:17 96:11 suspect 53:12 sustainable 64:9 swap 139:11 sway 174:13 sways 95:2 swear 17:7,10 swearing 5:7 9:22 15:6 switch 201:14 201:16 switched 120:17 switching 139:3 sword 99:13,14 sworn 245:5 symbol 42:8 95:4 148:2 166:21 172:7 symbolic 73:7 87:2,6 135:12 144:15 206:9 symbolism 87:20 94:22 99:13 134:6 148:7 181:20 182:4,6,18 symbolized 182:9 symbolizes 181:20 symbolizing 156:1 symbols 71:8 82:11 symmetrically 92:13 systematic 63:14 t t 5:1,1 6:1,1 115:5 table 130:10,11 131:1,3,15 187:2,11,14,15 189:21 tabled 187:16 tactile 108:1 take 17:18,21 19:14 25:13 49:1 51:6 54:12,15,18 58:11 60:1 98:10 99:19 102:20 111:13 111:17 123:19 133:13 141:1 149:19 151:14 152:4 178:14 200:3 225:5 228:2 239:18 243:18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 taken 73:17 74:20 153:1 163:2 245:3,12 246:9 takes 37:6 47:4 talent 218:4 talk 24:19 33:20 43:14 45:8 75:16 78:18 93:3 124:14 163:6 165:3,9 167:11 201:15 231:20 talked 45:6 137:15 181:19 182:12,16 231:14 talking 52:12 52:18 80:22 87:12 130:6 142:1 169:13 181:8 182:20 223:2 tallchief 230:8 231:11 tally 54:9 tallying 54:16 taped 193:8 targeted 114:16 task 129:17,21 tate 3:15 12:11 12:14 115:18 197:16,20 198:2 213:1,4 taught 29:4 199:8 Meeting [teaches - thank] teaches 15:14 teaching 16:6 142:9 216:13 team 32:19 39:10 51:5 63:4 127:13 tearing 232:21 technical 38:12 40:14 71:17 72:1 79:22 118:21 144:11 156:19 195:22 220:6 221:15 221:18 technically 49:4 125:1 technology 15:12 48:6 teenager 29:1 teens 30:11 teeth 221:19 telescope 195:4 200:22 209:18 209:21 telescopes 193:3 tell 50:1 51:17 78:15 80:21 83:4 133:22 134:1 158:15 202:13 208:18 210:6,7 telling 79:14 114:22 179:13 tells 86:4 tempted 129:14 October 24, 2023 Page 61 ten 103:1 thank 10:10,15 104:10 213:16 10:19 12:18 240:12 18:16,17 19:8 tend 125:3 19:17 21:17,20 141:12 208:3 22:13 23:9 227:11 25:11 26:16 tennis 215:21 36:4,5 38:10 216:5,15,18 39:21 40:1 217:6,13,15 41:4,5,15,17 218:3,4 219:8 42:20 43:1,6,8 219:21 220:20 43:10,11 44:3 220:21 221:21 44:4,4 45:21 222:2,3 225:22 46:1 47:16,17 228:21 232:2 47:19 49:13,14 tension 224:9 52:22 53:13,22 226:15 54:14 55:1,6 term 112:4 55:16 58:12,15 terminal 58:21 59:1,2,5 106:17 59:16 61:16 terminate 69:13,14,16 108:13 71:15 72:18 terms 23:12 75:18,22 76:1 42:7 50:15 77:15,16 79:20 75:14 76:21 80:11 81:12 92:1,3 96:14 82:1,3,16,21 102:4 112:6 83:10,20,22 137:17 237:8 84:1,2,4,7 85:3 terrific 23:4 85:4 87:10,21 testifying 245:5 88:1,8,9 89:7,9 text 37:5 45:13 89:21 91:10,12 45:16 91:21 91:16 92:17,19 97:13 140:6 94:2,3 95:15 165:17 220:22 100:3,9,16 textured 72:14 101:20 102:11 72:17 92:6 102:15 104:18 230:17 105:10 107:17 thak 97:16 109:4 113:6,8 113:20 116:19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 117:2 118:19 119:5,16,21,22 120:2 121:20 121:20,21 122:19 123:3,6 125:15 126:6 126:19 127:9 129:9 132:12 132:15 133:9 133:11,17 134:15,16,18 135:15 136:12 136:13,15 138:11,12 139:15 140:10 141:7 142:2 143:11 147:10 148:16,17 149:11,13 151:14,19,22 152:1,3,4,9 154:18 156:18 157:22 158:7 158:13 159:1,6 159:18,20 161:3,15,16 162:5 163:8,9 163:11,22 164:1,3,18,19 167:2,4 168:1 168:2 169:14 169:16 170:17 170:18,20 172:15,19 173:9,11,12 174:9 175:21 177:22 178:1 180:19 183:15 Meeting [thank - think] 183:17 184:12 186:6,7 188:15 190:18 191:16 191:17,19 192:4 194:16 195:21 196:18 197:18 198:3 198:15,17 199:18 200:3,5 200:7 201:19 202:4,5 203:7 203:9 204:2,6 205:3,5,7 206:3,4,21 207:22 212:3 212:11 214:13 214:21 215:1,6 215:10,11 218:12,13,17 218:22 219:3 220:4 221:10 222:4,6,13,14 224:1,3,16,17 226:1,3 227:13 227:14,16 229:12,13,15 231:6,7 235:20 239:12 243:4,6 243:8,10,13 thankful 32:16 thanking 40:3 68:12 169:19 thanks 22:13 69:12 97:15 101:18 105:19 158:19 161:13 theme 24:6 209:10 October 24, 2023 Page 62 themes 22:9 210:12 243:19 thing 69:8 82:12 97:7 98:5 99:1,10 109:11 122:22 125:12 128:16 138:16 171:1 171:15 173:20 176:13 178:13 180:3 203:14 209:13 225:19 227:6 231:13 237:15 things 21:8 24:7,7 25:5 34:11 92:8 96:15,20 98:1 98:14 135:3 144:4 173:22 175:16 176:13 199:15 228:5 think 19:6 21:1 21:7,9,10,13 21:21 22:11 23:19,21 24:2 24:4,10 25:4,8 25:9 33:22 34:3 35:1,10 39:14,18 40:10 40:11 41:11 44:11 45:3,5,9 45:16 46:9,21 47:8,11,21 48:2,21 49:11 50:4,12,16 53:5 56:16 57:1,22 68:8 83:2,12 84:13 85:2 86:2,4,10 86:22 87:4,6,6 87:13,15 88:6 88:14 89:2,14 89:14,18 90:2 90:3 91:18,21 91:22 92:6,11 92:20 93:6,12 93:21 94:1,9 94:13 95:2,19 95:20 96:4,7,8 97:2,3,6,9 98:12,15 100:22 101:7 105:22 106:13 107:14,16 108:4 109:10 109:11,17 111:5,22 112:3 120:16,17 122:12 124:12 124:17 125:7 127:5 128:15 133:2,19 134:5 134:21,21,22 135:2,4,8,11 135:13,22 136:3,7,10,22 137:16 138:6 138:22 139:1,5 139:7,10,19,20 139:22 140:2,5 140:8,16 141:3 142:6,11,13 143:2 146:13 147:21 148:14 148:15 155:5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 155:10 160:11 160:13,21 161:1 162:9,15 162:20,21 163:3,3,7,13 163:21 164:5 165:1,4,8,10 165:12 166:10 166:20 167:7 167:19,21 168:6,12,13,20 169:5,5,6,10 169:11 170:10 170:14 171:1,3 171:12 173:15 173:19 176:2 176:14,16,19 178:13,14 179:15 180:1 182:9,10,14,18 183:6,7,10,11 183:21 186:20 189:20 190:9 194:12,13 199:9,16,19 200:1,11,14 201:11 202:2,2 202:11,16,19 202:20,22,22 203:2,3,5,22 207:3,20 208:8 208:10,15 209:2,14 211:13 212:8 221:4,7,15 222:18,21 223:7,13,18,20 223:21,21 Meeting [think - torches] 224:14 225:1 225:11,19 226:4,5,6 227:22 228:1,7 229:16,18,22 230:15,18,20 230:20 231:1 231:20 232:1,3 233:9 235:15 236:3,15 238:9 239:8,10,13 242:3,11,15 thinking 96:5 160:1 162:13 207:15 231:11 third 62:19 thirteen 104:2 104:8 thorough 145:9 thought 23:3 23:12 44:14 48:5 67:2 75:12 90:14 91:1 94:11,17 94:19 96:18 100:19 120:9 131:21,22 137:13 138:2,3 140:14,20 146:5 165:14 173:9 212:2 226:12,16,19 227:8 235:4 thoughtful 53:21 100:17 202:15 thoughts 37:11 43:12 105:18 October 24, 2023 Page 63 107:1,5 147:18 147:19 231:5 thousand 47:3 threats 114:10 114:19,21 three 19:20 23:12 35:2 55:11 84:16,20 101:5,15,17,17 103:19 104:1,4 104:4,11 114:13 118:10 120:6 135:19 145:11 150:8,9 150:13 155:20 157:7,19 159:3 177:5 181:22 185:7,8 194:19 195:7,13,19 200:10 207:20 212:8 213:3,4 217:11 221:14 223:15 224:22 230:14 thrilled 58:22 76:3 86:5 166:6 throw 65:17 69:16 tidied 165:15 tie 185:9 tied 46:8 tiki 145:22 time 14:6 15:21 31:4 33:12 38:20 44:2,11 50:19 62:22 74:18 77:20 83:18 85:6,7 98:11 100:6 113:9 115:15 119:5 129:14 129:14,20 132:19 135:18 138:8 143:17 146:1,8,9 151:14 159:9 159:15 162:20 165:6 167:7 178:5 180:8 183:16 190:12 193:2,7 213:4 216:21 220:10 233:21 236:14 239:11 timeframe 118:13 timely 96:3 times 78:17 97:7 101:11 135:19 147:4 166:6 209:4 217:12 tired 88:18 tireless 64:7 tirelessly 34:14 64:1 title 216:10 titles 217:4 today 10:22 23:2 24:20 26:1,9 32:2,13 55:7 65:4 66:1 69:2 132:16 153:12 155:10 158:10 162:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 164:13 169:20 179:21 180:6 180:16 202:10 204:15 218:10 223:2 226:5 228:3,3 243:15 today's 7:13 9:20 together 137:9 toilet 200:20 207:17 told 35:4 64:20 79:14 193:4 206:11 tomorrow 7:17 25:18 243:17 243:21 tomorrow's 7:16 tone 93:13 took 79:4 145:21 204:12 232:7 tool 42:12 tools 72:9 tooth 221:20 top 35:8 63:5 77:1,11,12 171:18 197:7 201:7 216:5 torch 134:5 135:9 139:19 142:16,18 146:12,15 147:17 torches 145:22 146:7 Meeting [total - two] total 145:10 touch 134:4 touched 82:9 85:5 touching 41:10 84:10 168:13 tough 235:12 235:13,17 tour 115:9 216:16 tournaments 216:18 217:10 toward 42:1 87:20 117:18 137:20 towards 88:21 140:16 143:8 145:16 174:22 198:9 traceability 126:16 trach 35:20 36:20 tracing 162:19 traditionally 236:18 tragedy 34:21 tragic 34:20 trailblazer 230:20,22 231:2 232:4 235:2,6,8 trailblazing 192:5 219:10 trails 231:4 traits 153:15 trajectory 155:7 October 24, 2023 Page 64 transcendent 217:16 transcriber 246:1 transcript 246:3,5 transcriptionist 245:8 transferred 62:14 transformed 192:9 transition's 242:9 transparency 22:4 treasury 14:10 19:21 21:22 25:15 26:20 27:3 56:1 105:1 treatment 224:10 treefoil 166:18 trefoil 156:8 166:18,19,20 181:20 182:4 trial 63:10,11 trials 61:22 63:15 65:3 70:3 81:9 tribunals 63:4 tricky 125:12 tried 101:16 tries 49:11 trip 15:20 troops 79:1 155:9 trouble 68:9 226:10 troubles 74:2 true 17:14,16 76:17 106:13 187:3 245:9 246:5 trust 27:15 truth 114:22 try 38:16 63:5 68:3 129:12 140:17 200:17 220:9 trying 66:15 79:15 110:22 111:11 127:13 134:12 175:5 178:8 179:9 181:9 190:4 200:21 tucker 3:7 9:10 9:12 21:19,20 43:9,10,11 55:20,21,21 61:2,3 92:19 93:20 104:21 104:21 105:5 106:8,16 107:18,18 109:22 130:17 130:18 131:11 133:17,18 147:14,15 157:22 158:1,7 158:13,19 164:3,4 172:8 180:21,22 186:14 201:19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 201:20 229:15 229:16 241:11 241:11 tuesday 1:5 7:12 tuned 25:21 turn 26:6 39:22 41:6,16 42:21 43:9 44:6,22 45:22 47:18 61:11 85:8 88:2,10 89:8 89:22 92:18 94:4 95:16 113:11 120:3 122:20 133:12 134:17 141:6 163:10 164:2 164:20 165:20 167:3 168:3 169:15 198:4 198:16 200:6 203:8 205:4 221:11 222:5 224:2,18 226:2 turned 30:12 turning 25:12 turns 173:1 tv 59:14,15 199:6 twenty 185:9 two 7:13 20:13 20:20,21,22 48:8 92:8,12 103:20 104:1 104:12 108:13 121:22 147:8 150:10 156:5 Meeting [two - used] 156:12 158:17 159:4 160:16 174:14 177:11 185:6,7 199:4 201:21 202:1 203:16 209:16 220:17 234:16 234:18 type 22:11 128:17 210:10 typed 201:7 types 22:1 typewriter 138:2,15 140:21 typewriting 245:7 typically 175:7 u u.s. 1:9 10:12 10:21 17:3 37:3 49:18 57:21 58:1 70:6,21 153:2 156:13 216:7,8 217:15 219:12 uk 157:7 ultimately 177:21 unanimous 15:4 188:22 unanimously 68:22 113:5 unapologetic 28:16 uncommon 77:22 October 24, 2023 Page 65 uncovered 62:14 undecided 93:21 under 62:10 78:10 143:4 180:17,18 216:2 243:18 undergraduate 16:5 understand 50:7 66:22 78:12 99:6 111:5 141:10 167:12 172:10 177:14 207:11 207:13,14 215:4 221:20 227:2 234:20 understandable 33:15 understanding 29:14 93:8 145:4 190:10 190:11 192:9 understands 226:22 understood 132:1 178:17 190:1,3 226:20 undertook 68:21 undiluted 169:7 unexpectedly 152:16 unfortunately 152:15 uniform 66:22 154:8 159:8,9 159:14,17 160:13 uniformly 77:11 uniforms 155:21 159:13 162:19 182:5 unique 34:1 47:1 222:11 united 4:13 17:8,12 27:18 27:19 31:20 61:20 62:5 79:7 112:2 116:9 142:18 152:22 154:3,8 156:11 157:19 174:5 175:4 178:11,12 194:3 205:14 205:19 208:22 209:8 218:7 universe 21:11 192:9,12 201:1 207:7,12 university 216:14 217:18 unknown 102:22 192:13 unmoving 137:19 unmute 67:19 73:20 116:16 unreadable 46:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 unresponsive 24:14 unser 4:16 10:17 unum 31:21 40:16 47:8,13 116:10 123:15 127:18 128:9 139:5 148:21 154:9 165:12 194:3 208:19 218:7 unusual 89:14 210:9 unwavering 64:11 updates 19:15 upper 37:5 uppercase 174:6 upward 195:11 upwards 238:21 urged 153:21 use 44:13 95:11 99:13,18 102:4 112:3 125:3,21 126:2,14,15 137:16 138:2 140:20 148:22 196:6 used 62:16 73:18 74:18 75:1,15 76:6 79:16 101:10 114:7 126:18 196:15 226:20 Meeting [useful - want] useful 56:16 57:22 uses 42:8 137:17 227:1 using 66:17 148:22 178:10 209:17 212:13 v validated 74:15 valuable 19:7 47:22 49:11 value 20:13 48:1 van 3:8 9:13,15 14:18,18 39:22 40:1,2 41:3 57:3,3 60:20 60:21 71:20,21 72:12,18 84:4 84:6 85:15,17 88:3,3 105:13 105:14 108:15 108:15 127:10 127:10 128:5,6 132:12,14 156:21,21 169:16,18 187:22,22 205:5,6 206:1 214:2,2,8,10 224:3,5 variations 94:9 94:13 varied 38:3 various 82:18 100:18 October 24, 2023 Page 66 vasquez 3:3 11:10,12 vast 192:11 vehicle 19:7 20:5 vein 229:20 vera 4:5,6,7 6:5 13:13,14 192:3 192:5 194:2,4 194:7 196:5,8 196:9,16 212:14 veracity 112:10 verification 111:20 112:1,6 verified 78:16 version 237:19 versus 87:5 123:11 143:22 237:10 vertically 81:10 veteran 77:19 97:22 veterans 16:13 78:11 97:21 98:19 109:18 viability 115:21 viable 51:14 149:3 vicar 16:4 victims 63:17 153:22 video 16:19 view 41:9 56:17 78:2 86:15 183:21 viewed 69:4 212:10 viewer 134:3 148:4 viewing 209:16 views 173:18 violence 114:7 114:17 146:8 virtual 30:15 67:3 68:20 virtually 46:11 69:7 101:4 virtue 50:11 209:6,7 visceral 145:20 vision 160:10 visionary 29:17 31:16 202:12 visited 166:5 visiting 62:19 visual 45:18 100:22 108:1 visually 45:14 170:2 visuals 74:8 voice 22:9 30:1 38:4 114:7 156:4 212:2 volume 157:11 volunteers 16:9 56:20 vote 103:18 104:16 130:19 138:1 154:3 165:18 175:8 177:21 187:3,8 189:6,10 190:12,13,21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 191:10 211:2 236:2,9,18 241:13 voted 216:22 235:13,18 votes 190:4 voting 89:16 184:6 187:13 189:8 236:2 w w.e.b. 115:5 waist 120:22 179:7 wait 188:13 walk 235:5 wall 87:3,8 want 7:22 12:19 18:13 22:8 23:9 40:3 42:2 44:10 45:3 46:2,15 49:19,22 52:10 53:4 58:13 59:5 65:5 66:19 68:3 69:10 77:18 82:3 90:3 91:5 93:3 94:5 97:19 113:8 121:11 122:8 124:19 130:15 130:21 131:5 132:15 139:4 142:16,21 155:2 157:9 161:11 165:9 167:11 169:19 Meeting [want - wells] 177:16 181:1 181:17 188:10 191:19 198:1 198:21 201:14 202:8 204:2 210:7 221:2,4 236:9,11 239:12 wanted 44:17 45:4 51:22 92:9 96:17 115:22 119:20 137:21 140:15 147:15,20 153:2 159:5 160:9 161:14 178:21 208:7 238:5 wanting 79:12 wants 141:1 197:21 war 15:14 16:9 16:10 61:22 62:15 63:7,13 63:19,20 64:2 64:3 65:21 66:2 70:16 71:5 78:19 79:15 80:14 83:6 87:2,4,5 87:13 90:21 93:9,16 96:2 98:4,7 100:21 101:6,16 107:14 108:2 153:18,21,22 warm 45:9 October 24, 2023 Page 67 warp 207:17 warren 2:5 7:2 7:3 8:9,11,13 10:13,15 12:4 12:7 52:9,17 54:17,22 58:3 58:4 59:9,18 60:9 65:7,9,13 67:18 68:1,7 73:19 103:2,6 103:10 149:20 150:1 154:21 184:14,17,20 188:8,9,14 190:16 191:1,4 213:7 239:21 240:2 244:1 warrior's 34:8 washington 1:11 27:10 115:6 washinton's 27:14 watch 199:6 water 162:14 wave 53:8 79:1 waves 45:14 way 31:5 37:7 41:10 46:9 47:1 49:8 50:14 51:14 69:3,10 78:13 90:6 91:11 92:13 96:19 101:3 117:1 120:22 128:10 135:10,22 141:15 142:22 143:19 166:11 169:5 175:17 179:10 187:8 187:10 200:14 202:18 209:1 209:15 218:4 219:17,18 224:21 228:5,9 233:2,10 236:18 240:22 ways 42:10,15 42:16 48:11 90:20 116:5 136:17 137:5 231:18,19 we've 44:11 67:6 75:19 133:15 178:12 188:22 196:6 204:14 220:11 222:19 weak 33:9 226:5 wealth 25:19 58:2 97:18 wear 73:7 75:1 122:16 wearing 76:10 122:3,16 145:12 157:3 157:17 web 111:15 webbing 219:21 220:19 website 88:19 88:20 112:2 wedding 124:17 125:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 126:1,3 141:1 143:2,3 145:12 week 30:19,20 weeks 36:16 132:19 weigh 51:17 weight 46:11 weighted 173:6 weinman 2:19 12:8,10 54:9 54:11 55:3,6 103:12,14 128:13,14,22 128:22 149:18 150:5,7 184:12 185:1,3 186:11 187:1 189:19 213:11,13 236:8 239:18 240:7,9,19 241:5 weird 137:22 weiss 246:2,15 welcome 15:22 18:9,20 19:10 116:15 120:1 welcoming 18:11 wells 3:21,22 5:18 13:5,6,7 113:16,21 115:3,12 116:4 116:9,11 117:7 117:17 118:9 122:3 124:15 124:16,21 125:5,5,6,7,21 125:22 126:2 Meeting [wells - worked] 132:17 133:4 136:19 141:12 141:18,21 142:20 144:19 149:15 173:22 196:7 went 76:8 77:6 88:19 171:2 whatsoever 69:8 wheelchair 28:19 35:19 38:1 40:17,17 42:8,10 47:2 49:10 50:10 52:6 whichever 139:4 186:22 whimsical 38:1 white 3:18 12:15,17 107:11 114:15 114:18 115:9 177:9 218:2 221:21 wholehearted... 163:5 wide 27:19 wider 116:6 widowed 152:17 wife 115:12 wildcats 199:7 william 152:14 willing 106:1 110:8 wimbledon 216:9 October 24, 2023 Page 68 win 217:2 228:20 winner 213:14 213:17 winning 216:17 wins 218:3 wire 87:1 wisdom 30:1 wise 136:4 wishes 123:18 wishing 165:22 withdraw 130:20 131:20 237:5 withdrawn 132:2 witness 245:4 woman 27:18 28:17 115:16 115:16 116:2 160:9 161:1 170:12 171:17 174:19 179:8 181:8 182:13 193:11 216:20 217:7 230:5 234:1 woman's 57:18 117:9 women 5:11,17 5:20 6:4,7 10:5 13:3 26:22 27:1,8 28:1 113:15 115:10 115:13 116:5,6 125:13 143:4 152:6 154:2 155:7,8 158:18 162:8 177:3 180:2,7 192:2 192:22 193:2,6 193:13,15,15 193:17 198:13 233:1 women's 13:7 13:11,14,21 14:2 26:3,7,11 27:4,5,6,7 28:5 57:21 113:12 114:4 115:7,18 126:12 168:11 177:2 179:2 192:20 215:13 217:17,19 won 78:10 166:12 216:10 217:3 219:17 228:12,15 231:2 wonder 200:11 201:13 203:6 wondered 172:22 wonderful 32:16 45:10 83:6 85:2 91:4 135:3 165:8 194:16 wondering 76:16,20 111:12 205:17 241:22 word 50:5 95:8 97:1,5 101:15 135:19 148:14 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 201:7 230:21 wording 121:4 121:8,10 214:7 words 18:12 30:1 32:4,9 42:15,17 47:3 48:8,8,18 49:9 65:18 66:5,7 101:5,17,17 116:16 126:2 135:22 136:4 137:12 154:16 182:6,8 194:9 194:13 218:14 232:3 wordy 135:1 work 19:7 29:16 33:4 42:9,11 49:18 49:20 51:3 58:1 63:19,21 66:11,19 70:11 83:6,15 84:21 88:17 90:16,16 96:12 116:6 118:10 126:13 129:7 137:5,7 137:18,19,20 138:10 170:15 192:6,10 193:19 196:11 206:19 211:22 worked 29:7 30:9 32:19 34:14 63:22 73:12,14 88:15 108:14 126:11 135:1,5 140:8 Meeting [worked - youth] 216:4 working 18:11 63:4 115:4 138:9 139:11 243:19 works 40:11 88:5 124:16 136:5 158:16 world 4:15 10:17 16:8,10 16:16 30:22 45:19 61:22 63:20 64:9,13 79:15 83:7,18 87:13,17 91:1 98:4,7 148:1 153:21 162:9 163:1,22 201:2 218:3 228:8 world's 20:9 worldwide 64:15 153:13 worn 143:3 worried 205:16 worry 42:15 48:22 142:16 142:18 179:14 180:12 207:18 worst 142:14 worth 47:3 64:22 138:3 231:20 worthy 94:1 133:20 wound 34:19 wounded 78:20 153:19 October 24, 2023 Page 69 wrestling 134:13 write 144:20 145:2 180:10 writer 29:18 93:22 230:19 writes 31:10 116:2 217:20 writing 29:3 136:6 144:12 144:14 written 128:10 129:4 136:1 144:13 wrong 225:14 wrote 31:8 114:15 115:20 132:20 135:19 144:15 y yancey 1:19 245:2,17 yeah 8:9 21:1 40:20 52:17,17 67:21 73:22,22 74:11 83:11 90:1 105:13 107:6 116:18 124:20 145:17 157:15 158:17 178:19 197:16 203:22 205:21 211:18 214:8 214:10 237:7 238:7,16 242:7 242:10,12 year 23:11 25:10 26:21 27:8 132:22 164:9 216:10 216:19 217:1,2 years 35:1 76:6 86:4 101:12 114:12 142:7 154:2 230:3 235:7 yep 72:19 york 62:6 79:9 215:20 young 29:12 33:10 34:20 64:20 83:1,3 146:18 147:9 159:4,15 176:6 176:18 177:5 177:17 179:5,6 180:11 199:4 199:10 younger 164:15 180:13 235:14 youth 29:1 31:18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 1 1 CCAC PUBLIC MEETING 2 3 4 5 Moderated by Dr. Lawrence Brown 6 Wednesday, October 25, 2023 7 8:58 a.m. 8 9 10 Department of the Treasury 11 U.S. Mint 12 801 9th Street, Northwest 13 Washington, DC 20220 14 (202) 360-3154 15 16 17 18 19 Reported by: Matthew Yancey 20 JOB NO.: 6043349 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 List of Attendees: 3 Dr. Lawrence Brown, Representing the General Public 4 and Chairperson of the CCAC 5 Arthur Bernstein, Representing the General Public 6 Dr. Harcourt Fuller, Recommended by the Speaker of the 7 House (by videoconference) 8 Kellen Hoard, Representing the General Public 9 Dr. Chris Capozzola, Specially Qualified in American 10 History 11 John Saunders, Recommended by the House Minority 12 Leader 13 Michael Moran, Recommended by the State Majority 14 Leader 15 Darla Jackson, Specially Qualified in Numismatics 16 Donald Scarinci, Recommended by the Senate Minority 17 Leader 18 Dennis Tucker, Specially Qualified in Numismatics 19 Dr. Peter van Alfen, Specially Qualified as a 20 Numismatic Curator 21 April Stafford, Chief, Office of Design Management 22 Megan Sullivan, Senior Design Specialist www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 3 1 A P P E A R A N C E S (Cont.d) 2 Roger Vasquez, Senior Design Manager 3 Pam Borer, Design Manager (by videoconference) 4 Russell Evans, Design Manager 5 Boneza Hanchock, Design Manager 6 Sukrita Baijal, Design Manager 7 Michael Costello, Manager of Design and Engraving 8 Jennifer Warren, Director of Legislative and 9 Intergovernmental Affairs and Liaison to the CCAC 10 (by videoconference) 11 Greg Weinman, Senior Legal Counsel and Counsel to the 12 CCAC 13 Brendan Tate, Senior Government Affairs Specialist, 14 Office of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs 15 Mike White, Office of Corporate Communication 16 Paul Gilkes, Amos Media Coin World, Senior Editor 17 Mike Unser, Founder and Editor, CoinNews Media Group 18 19 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 4 1 C O N T E N T S 2 PAGE 3 Mr. Michael Moran 4 Dr. Lawrence Brown 5 Mr. Arthur Bernstein 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 11, 14 18 21, 32 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 5 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 CHAIRMAN BROWN: Good morning. I call 3 back to order this meeting of the Citizens Coinage 4 Advisory Committee for Wednesday, October 25, 2023. 5 The time is 9 -- 8:58, so we're early. 6 second day of a two-day meeting that began yesterday. 7 I would like to remind the public that this is a 8 listening only meeting and to please mute their 9 microphones as well as any members of the CCAC or the 10 This is the U.S. Mint that are participating remotely. 11 Before we begin, I want to reintroduce 12 to the public the committees of the -- the members of 13 the committee of the CCAC. 14 respond "present" when I call your name. 15 16 My colleagues, please Arthur Bernstein, representing the general public. 17 MR. BERNSTEIN: 18 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 19 22 Dr. Harcourt Fuller recommended by the Speaker of the House. 20 21 Present. MR. TATE: Dr. Fuller hasn't joined yet. CHAIRMAN BROWN: Okay. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Kellen Hoard Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 6 1 representing the -- 2 MR. SCARINCI: Mr. Chairman, maybe we 3 should just wait one moment and then start the roll 4 call. 5 CHAIRMAN BROWN: Thank you. That makes 6 sense. It just reminds me that there are some in the 7 sports arena that tend to say you're on time when 8 you're before time. 9 have that as one of my affiliations. 10 So please excuse me, because I MR. BERNSTEIN: That was Vince Lombardi 11 who said, "If you're early, you're on time. 12 on time, you're late. 13 bother showing up." 14 If you're And if you're late, don't CHAIRMAN BROWN: We will begin anew. 15 Before we begin, I want to reintroduce members of the 16 committee. 17 when I call your name. My colleagues please respond "present" 18 19 Arthur Bernstein representing the general public. 20 MR. BERNSTEIN: 21 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 22 Present. Kellon Hoard representing the general public. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 7 1 MR. HOARD: 2 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 3 Present. recommended by the Speaker of the House. 4 MR. TATE: 5 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 6 7 8 9 10 11 Dr. Harcourt Fuller He hasn't joined yet. John Saunders. here, okay. Michael Moran, recommended by the Senator Majority Leader. MR. MORAN: Present. CHAIRMAN BROWN: Darla Jackson, specially qualified in Medallic Arts or Sculpture. 12 MS. JACKSON: 13 CHAIRMAN BROWN: Donald Scarinci 14 Present. recommended by the Senate Minority Leader. 15 MR. SCARINCI: 16 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 17 Not Present. Dennis Tucker, specially qualified in Numismatics. 18 MR. TUCKER: Present. 19 CHAIRMAN BROWN: Dr. Peter van Alfen, 20 specially qualified as a Numismatic Curator. 21 DR. VAN ALFEN: 22 CHAIRMAN BROWN: Present. I think we have a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 8 1 quorum, nonetheless. 2 DR. CAPOZOLLA: 3 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 4 Did I miss your name, Chris? 5 DR. CAPOZOLLA: 6 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 7 We do. Yes, you did. Dr. Chris Capozolla, specially qualified in American History. 8 DR. CAPOZOLLA: 9 CHAIRMAN BROWN: Present. Thank you. We have a 10 quorum. The agenda for today's session will include 11 the following: 12 and reverse candidate designs for the 2025 American 13 Liberty High Relief 24k Gold Coin and the 2024 14 American Liberty Silver Medal. 15 Review and discussion of the obverse Review and approval of the fiscal year 16 2023 Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Annual 17 Report. 18 19 20 21 22 MR. TATE: phone please. Please mute yourself on the Harcourt, can you hear us? DR. FULLER: Yes. Harcourt Fuller is present, thank you. CHAIRMAN BROWN: And finally, the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 9 1 Report of the Future Numismatic Themes Working Group 2 and Discussion of the Recommendations for the Fiscal 3 Year 2024 Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Annual 4 Report. 5 Before we resume our proceedings, I ask 6 that Brendan Tate, if there are members of the press 7 who have remotely signed in. 8 9 MR. TATE: two. Thank you. Yes. There are We have Mike Unser, the Founder and Editor of 10 CoinNews Media Group, LLC. 11 Amos Media Coin World Senior Editor. 12 And we have Paul Gilkes, CHAIRMAN BROWN: Thank you so much. 13 For the record, I would also like to confirm the 14 following Mint staff are attending either in person or 15 remotely. 16 I have called your name. 17 18 Mint staff, please indicate "present" after April Stafford, Chief of the Office of Design Management. 19 MS. STAFFORD: 20 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 21 22 Present. Megan Sullivan, Senior Design Specialist. MS. SULLIVAN: Present. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 10 1 2 CHAIRMAN BROWN: Design Management. 3 MR. VASQUEZ: 4 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 5 Present. MS. BORER: 7 CHAIRMAN BROWN: Present. MR. EVANS: 10 Present. CHAIRMAN BROWN: MS. HANCHOCK: 13 CHAIRMAN BROWN: Present. Sukrita Baijal, Design Manager. 15 MS. BAIJAL: 16 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 17 Boneza Hanchock, Design Manager. 12 14 Russell Evans, Design Manager. 9 11 Pam Borer, Design Manager. 6 8 Roger Vasquez, Senior Present. Michael Costello, Manager of Design and Engraving. 18 MR. COSTELLO: 19 CHAIRMAN BROWN: Present. Jennifer Warren, 20 Director of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs 21 and Liaison to the CCAC. 22 DR. CAPOZOLLA: She's present. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 11 1 2 CHAIRMAN BROWN: Greg Weinman, Senior Legal Counsel and Counsel to the CCAC. 3 MR. WEINMAN: Present. 4 CHAIRMAN BROWN: Brendan Tate, Senior 5 Government Affairs Specialist, Office of Legislative 6 and Intergovernmental Affairs. 7 MR. TATE: 8 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 9 Present. Mike White, Office of Corporate Communication. 10 MR. WHITE: Present. 11 CHAIRMAN BROWN: Thank you so much. 12 I'd like to begin with the Mint to ask are there any 13 issues that need to be addressed before we start? 14 MR. TATE: 15 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 16 17 No. At this point, I'd like to, in fact, recognize Mike Moran. MR. MORAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. I'm 18 going to present two motions this morning. 19 do that, and as a point of explanation, I will renew a 20 preamble and then I'll go through the first motion and 21 then the second motion. 22 MR. TATE: Before I Mike, if you could speak up www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 12 1 for those. 2 MR. MORAN: 3 MR. TATE: 4 MR. MORAN: Okay. Thanks. We, the Citizens Coinage 5 Advisory Committee are opposed to the Mint's proposed 6 design for the 2024-25 American Liberty Silver Medal 7 and High Relief Gold Coin. 8 went into its excellent rendition but believe it is 9 the wrong design for this particular program. 10 We respect the effort that We are not opposed to the submitted 11 design itself. We have advocated over many years that 12 the Mint consider resurrecting certain discontinued 13 and pattern designs that feature 18th and 19th century 14 images of Liberty. 15 distinctive silver medal program. 16 designs, however, are not idea for the American 17 Liberty program. Many of these would be ideal for a These classic 18 These gold coins and accompanying 19 silver medals were conceived within the CCAC and 20 implemented as a program in 2015. 21 program was to allow the Mint's artist to develop new 22 images of American Liberty for the 21st century. The purpose of this www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 The Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 13 1 program has successfully initiated this effort. 2 However, more needs to be done to fully implement the 3 goal of new modern American concepts of Liberty. 4 The Mint's own catalog text describes 5 the program. 6 celebrates modern interpretations of the concept of 7 American Liberty, exploring the theme beyond the 8 classical tradition of portraits of allegorical 9 liberty. 10 The American Liberty Gold Coin program The 1794 dollar design fails further 11 this stated purpose. This being the sense of the 12 committee, I wish to make the following two motions: 13 First, and we will consider the first 14 motion by itself. 15 dollar rendition be removed from today's agenda and 16 not be considered for the American Liberty Gold Coin 17 Silver and Medal program. 18 19 I move that the 1794 Flowing Hair MR. SCARINCI: Mr. Chairman. 20 I second that motion, Donald Scarinci. CHAIRMAN BROWN: Any questions or 21 comments? Hearing none and seeing none, all of those 22 in favor signify by saying "aye." www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 14 1 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 2 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 3 by saying "nay." 4 Those opposed, signify Ayes have it. MR. MORAN: Aye. The motion carries. My second motion, I move 5 that we strongly recommend that the United States Mint 6 implement a new Classic Liberty Silver Medal series, 7 using images from its portfolio of discontinued 8 designs and pattern pieces of the 18th and 19th 9 centuries. 10 11 MR. SCARINCI: Donald Scarinci. 12 13 CHAIRMAN BROWN: Are there any comments or discussions on the motion? 14 15 I second that motion. MS. STAFFORD: Could you repeat that motion? 16 MR. MORAN: We strongly recommend that 17 the United States Mint implement new Classic 18 Liberty -- a new Classic Liberty Silver Medal series, 19 using images from its portfolio of discontinued 20 designs and pattern pieces of the 18th and 19th 21 centuries. 22 MS. STAFFORD: Are you making a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 15 1 distinction with silver medals versus the availability 2 of 24k gold coins as well as. 3 MR. MORAN: Yes. 4 MS. STAFFORD: 5 CHAIRMAN BROWN: Okay. Any further questions 6 or comments on the motion? Hearing none, all those in 7 favor, signify by saying "aye." 8 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 9 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 10 Those opposed "nay." The motion carries. 11 12 Aye. MR. MORAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. I'm done. 13 CHAIRMAN BROWN: Thank you. 14 Are there any additional comments or 15 motions based from the members at this time? 16 none, we will move to the next item on the agenda. 17 MS. STAFFORD: Hearing Chairman Brown, if -- if 18 the committee is happy to entertain some questions 19 about the possibility of using a Flowing Hair dollar 20 design as a stand-alone offering, we do have a 21 question that we would very much appreciate the 22 committee's input on about the -- the pros and cons of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 16 1 revisiting a historic design. 2 you would be willing to have a discussion on so that 3 we could -- the next time we come back in November, be 4 one step ahead with that information? 5 Is that something that MR. SCARINCI: Point of order. Would 6 -- would such a discussion be permissible without 7 notice to the public in advance? 8 Greg question. 9 MS. STAFFORD: I guess that's a It's still connected to 10 the use of the Flowing Hair dollar design, Greg, so 11 hoping the answer would be yes. 12 MR. WEINMAN: Yes. 13 MR. SCARINCI: The answer would be no 14 because we're not considering that design. 15 reviewing that design. 16 discussion, you know, for sure -- 17 18 We're not So we're open to the MS. STAFFORD: Understand. We can use it as an example, yeah. 19 MR. SCARINCI: Perhaps we can do a 20 special Zoom meeting next week, as early as next 21 week -- 22 MR. MORAN: An administrative meeting. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 17 1 MR. SCARINCI: An administrative 2 meeting, to discuss it if you'd like. 3 the public forum would be appropriate to discuss it. 4 5 MR. WEINMAN: I don't think I apologize. Rephrase the question again. 6 MR. SCARINCI: I think -- I think we 7 would be open to having a Zoom meeting, a Zoom 8 administrative meeting next week -- as early as Monday 9 if you'd like -- early next week, whenever -- 10 MR. WEINMAN: As opposed to -- 11 MR. SCARINCI: 12 As opposed to discussing this at a public meeting today. 13 MR. WEINMAN: There's nothing -- I 14 mean, there's nothing to stop you. 15 authority to make this particular coin and medal. 16 17 MR. SCARINCI: The Mint has That's correct. That's correct. 18 MR. WEINMAN: What program it falls 19 under is discretionary from the Mint standpoint. 20 did notice the public that we'd be -- 21 22 MS. STAFFORD: -- utilizing this design. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 We Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 18 1 MR. WEINMAN: That the committee would 2 be utilizing -- reviewing this design. 3 nothing legally speaking, to stop the committee from 4 commenting on this design. 5 6 MR. SCARINCI: to remove it. 7 8 9 10 So there's No, but the motion was So -MR. WEINMAN: Okay. Sure. That's fine. MR. SCARINCI: So we're not going to talk about it at this meeting. 11 MR. WEINMAN: Okay. 12 MR. SCARINCI: Okay. We'll talk about it at 13 another meeting as early as next week if you'd like. 14 So we -- you know, so we don't hold you up. 15 MS. STAFFORD: 16 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 17 We will now move to consideration of Thank you. Thank you so much. 18 the CCAC's Annual Report. Before doing so it is 19 important that we share two additional points, 20 particularly for the public's interest. 21 annual year for the report is from October 1, 2022 to 22 September 30, 2023. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 First, the Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 19 1 Second, pursuant to Section 5135 of 2 Article 31 of the United States Code, the CCAC is to 3 submit an annual report to the Secretary of the 4 Treasury, the House Committee on Financial Services, 5 and the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and 6 Urban Affairs. 7 September 30th each year, but consistent with the 8 statute and past practices, it was communicated to the 9 Secretary and Congress earlier this year, that By statute, this report is due on 10 additional time was needed to complete the report and 11 for approval to occur. 12 The new expected delivery date for the 13 report is to be no later than December 18, 2023. 14 report encompasses the work that the Committee has 15 done over the last fiscal year and includes a draft 16 copy of the report was sent to everyone prior to this 17 meeting. 18 This The first thing I'd like to ask is if 19 there are any comments on the document or corrections 20 that you'd like to bring up from the Committee? 21 Hearing none, seeing none. 22 approve the Annual Report and to authorize the United Is there a motion to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 20 1 States Mint to submit to the Secretary and Congress 2 with the edits that had been submitted earlier, either 3 now or prior to the meeting, and to give the Mint 4 authority in coordination with the CCAC Chair to make 5 any other technical corrections that may be necessary? 6 MR. BERNSTEIN: Arthur Bernstein so 8 DR. VAN ALFEN: Peter van Alfen second. 9 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 7 moves. Thank you. 10 discussion on the motion? Hearing none. 11 favor, please signify by saying "aye." 12 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 13 CHAIRMAN BROWN: All those in Aye. Are there any opposed 14 by "nay?" 15 objections to the motion? 16 the Fiscal Year 2023, Annual Report is now approved. 17 The motion carries. Any Are there any If not, without objection, I'd like to also note that this year 18 the Mint has worked tirelessly on providing us a 19 smaller document that can be printed in larger amounts 20 and be used to distribute to the general public. 21 document will have standard information about the CCAC 22 as well as including a short summary of the current www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 This Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 21 1 fiscal year. 2 public outreach. 3 This will be another tool for the CCACs Now, we move to the last order of 4 business. The Report of the Future Numismatic Themes 5 Working Group and discussion of the recommendations 6 for Fiscal Year 2024 Annual Report. 7 Group's report provides the CCAC another opportunity 8 to continue to serve as an informed, experienced, and 9 impartial resource to the Treasury Secretary, The Working 10 representing the interest of the public and the 11 numismatic community. 12 Art Bernstein did a phenomenal job and 13 very graciously agreed to serve as head of this 14 working group and will provide the report of the group 15 today. 16 report, the CCAC will vote to determine which of the 17 recommendations are to be forwarded to the Secretary 18 and Congress. 19 Bernstein. At the conclusion of the working group's 20 I will hand this off now to Art MR. BERNSTEIN: Mr. Chairman, this is 21 Art Bernstein. Just to keep the parliamentary 22 procedures in order, I would like to move acceptance www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 22 1 of the report that you received last week. 2 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 3 MR. MORAN: 4 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 5 MR. MORAN: 6 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 7 MR. BERNSTEIN: Second? Second. Second? Michael Moran. Okay. Thank you for that. 8 Now, I'd like to present the report. 9 it in hard copy and electronically. You all received I hope you had a 10 chance to read it. 11 me in February of this year to chair this working 12 group, this subcommittee. 13 subcommittees in the past. 14 I was honored when Dr. Brown asked We've had previous This group was made up of myself as 15 Chair, Mike Moran, Darla Jackson, John Saunders, Larry 16 Brown, and then as soon as Kellen was appointed as a 17 member of the CCAC, he was quickly added to our 18 subcommittee as well. 19 group. 20 And that became the working We began our work looking at the past. 21 We looked at the minutes of the previous meetings of 22 the past working group. We read Congressional www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 23 1 research papers including from Congressional Research 2 Service the Commemorative Coins background papers; 3 there were two of them. 4 reports of the old subcommittees. 5 ideas from the general public. 6 the draft Annual Report -- I should say now the Annual 7 Report that we just approved -- on page 26, you will 8 see a chart listing various ideas that were submitted 9 by the general public for commemorative coins and 10 We looked at the previous Then we looked at In the Annual Report, medals. 11 There were 26 on that chart. They 12 ranged from everything to penguins to Father's Day as 13 possible themes. 14 made our final -- made our final list. 15 point, over 50 ideas that we were considering. 16 went, as I said, had four meetings where we whittled 17 those down by consensus -- left some on, took some 18 off. By the way, neither of those themes We had, at one We 19 In the end, the final report that you 20 have in front of you lists 19 concepts that we think 21 are deserving of future coinage. 22 Committee members championed several of these items. Each of the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 24 1 This was a report written by each of the Committee 2 members and you'll see different styles in terms of 3 the -- some were longer, some were shorter. 4 prepared to discuss any of the 19 that are 5 recommended, but I wasn't planning to go through the 6 list unless there are specific questions. 7 CHAIRMAN BROWN: We're Is there any comments 8 from the Committee with respect to any of the items 9 that they'd like to hear specific information about? 10 Not hearing any -- 11 DR. VAN ALFEN: Actually, sorry. 12 is Peter van Alfen. 13 There are a number of women listed: 14 Grace Hopper, Ruth Bader Ginsburg. 15 either a commemorative coin or a Congressional Gold 16 Metal. 17 Congressional Gold Medals actually move forward? 18 understanding is that this is -- is this something 19 that we can recommend and then it's taken up by 20 Congress or -- I guess that's the question. 21 22 I did -- let me find it. This Sorry. Loretta Lynn, We were suggesting Is it -- how does recommendation for MR. WEINMAN: My Point of clarification. Your charter specifically authorizes you to recommend www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 25 1 commemorative programs in the following five years. 2 Technically, it does not -- there is no authority for 3 the CCAC to recommend Congressional Gold Medals which, 4 by definition, our legislature must begin and conclude 5 with the legislature and be signed into law by the 6 President. 7 Therefore, our past -- our past advice 8 has been to stick to the Annual Report to things that 9 are either -- are commemorative in nature -- which the 10 charter already gives you authority to recommend, or 11 to make recommendations to the Mint, the Treasury 12 Department, programs for which we already have 13 legislative authority. 14 So in the past, we have recommended to 15 committee to not necessarily put into the Annual 16 Report items that specifically would require 17 legislation and are not specifically identified in 18 your charter. 19 20 MR. TATE: Chairman Brown, Jennifer Warren has her hand raised. 21 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 22 MS. WARREN: Jennifer? I'll add, though -- in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 26 1 some of our past recommendation letters that we have 2 sent to the Secretary and to Congress has included 3 suggestions of a commemorative coin/Congressional Gold 4 Medal. 5 was a reference. 6 authority really does lie with Congress, but we have 7 suggested at times, its consideration of one or the 8 other, just to give them an idea. 9 We did that for the, I think, semi-Q, there But Congressional Gold Medal DR. VAN ALFEN: So just to repeat all 10 that, it would be fine to leave Congressional Gold 11 Medal suggestions in this document, then? 12 MR. WEINMAN: Theoretically -- I guess 13 if it is, we recommend either a commemorative coin -- 14 we recommend a commemorative coin program and if 15 that's not appropriate, possibly consider a 16 Congressional Gold Medal. 17 that, then I think you're bootstrapping it to the 18 authority that you already have in your legislative 19 charter. I think if you're doing 20 DR. VAN ALFEN: 21 MR. SCARINCI: 22 Scarinci, Mr. Chair. Okay. I think -- Donald Yeah, I think recommending www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 27 1 Congressional Gold Medals is up to Congress and they 2 tell us what they want. 3 recommend a commemorative coin program for Congress to 4 consider and alternatively, if Congress prefers it 5 would be a Congressional Gold Medal. 6 be delicately worded especially on Capitol Hill at the 7 moment. 8 9 And we can certainly MR. BERNSTEIN: Art Bernstein. So that should Mr. Chairman, this is Speaking of things that should be 10 delicately worded, there's another area where we went 11 a little bit beyond our portfolio. 12 of the report where we were suggesting higher value 13 circulating coins. 14 our discussions with counsel, that this was beyond the 15 Commemorative Coin charter and clearly would require 16 legislative action. 17 and we put it on our list. 18 That is on page 9 It was made quite clear to us in We just felt this was a good idea CHAIRMAN BROWN: May I suggest 19 something to make this maybe a little bit easier. 20 Unless, in fact, the maker of the motion would be 21 willing to subtract the motion, those items for which 22 we've had some conversation about, and let's approve www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 28 1 the others, the remainder. 2 with respect to the point that you raise, Art -- I 3 mean, I'm sorry, forgive me, Peter -- as well as the 4 issue you raise, Art with respect to the denominations 5 -- let's remove them from the report -- from this 6 motion and then handle them separately. 7 So that means the issue Because it would seem to me that it 8 would be cleaner to get that done and more 9 efficiently. 10 Do you agree with that maker of the motion? 11 MR. BERNSTEIN: Well, I wasn't the 12 maker of the motion -- oh actually I guess I was. 13 Yeah. Art Bernstein, yes. 14 idea. A very Solomon-like idea. 15 16 I think it's an excellent CHAIRMAN BROWN: And Michael as the second? 17 MR. MORAN: I'll second that. 18 have a question for Art on this. 19 Moran. 20 the list? 21 22 And I do This is Michael How many are left when you drop those out of MR. BERNSTEIN: Well -- this is Art Bernstein -- I think we're doing two kinds of drops. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 29 1 Each of the coins -- each of the concepts that were 2 suggested as a Congressional Gold Medal were also 3 suggested as a commemorative coin. 4 deleting "for Congressional Gold Medal" from this 5 list. 6 Loretta Lynn and Ruth Bader Ginsburg remain on the 7 list. 8 was on page 9, the idea of a five dollar and/or ten 9 dollar higher value circulating coin, item B. So we're simply So that doesn't take anything off the list. Simply, the only other item that would come off 10 MR. MORAN: There's one other item that 11 we recommended which was a commemoration in gold of 12 the Bela Pratt five dollar gold piece that was last 13 coined in 1929 and celebrating its discontinuance in 14 2029. 15 no problem with that and I would recommend -- suggest 16 that the motion include that in our report. The Mint has authority to strike gold so I see 17 MR. BERNSTEIN: So leave it in? 18 MR. MORAN: Absolutely. 19 MR. HOARD: Would we have to also 20 remove the Mint Set with the "W" Mint mark? 21 copper cents? 22 MR. BERNSTEIN: I don't know. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 The full I'm Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 30 1 looking at the lawyer. 2 MR. WEINMAN: 3 MR. HOARD: Who are you referring to? This is page 9, point A, 4 one of the recommendations that was made was a Mint 5 set with full copper cent or "W" Mint mark. 6 that would have to be struck as well. 7 MS. WARREN: Excuse me. I imagine This is 8 Jennifer Warren, the Liaison. I have a question 9 because I'm a little confused what you're trying to do 10 here. 11 letter with the recommendations. 12 you suggesting to send a whole report to Congress into 13 the Secretary or are you just using your report to 14 identify what you're going to put into the letter? 15 We usually don't send a report over. CHAIRMAN BROWN: What are you -- are It's the latter. 16 is Lawrence Brown. It's the latter. 17 suggest the items to put in the letter. 18 only -- 19 MS. WARREN: 20 you for the clarification. 21 22 Okay. CHAIRMAN BROWN: We send a This We just going to The report is All right. Thank The question in front of us now is whether or not in the motion to include www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 31 1 or not include an item that had to deal with a Mint 2 set with full copper cent or "W" Mint mark? 3 MR. WEINMAN: In other words, does the 4 Mint have the authority on its own right now to create 5 a new numismatic product with a full copper cent. 6 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 7 -- does the CCAC -- is that within the CCAC's 8 authority to make a recommendation to the Secretary? 9 10 11 MR. WEINMAN: Well, even beyond that I would argue it's beyond the CCAC's authority. MR. HOARD: So could we -- could we 12 make the motion to recommend all of the pieces here 13 except for page 9? 14 MR. BERNSTEIN: This is Art Bernstein. 15 I think that's correct. 16 would simply delete Congressional and just list as 17 commemorative coins. 18 And on the previous pages, we CHAIRMAN BROWN: So for the sake of the 19 public, this is Lawrence Brown, what is being offered 20 here is in the motion that all the items in the report 21 would be, in fact, forwarded except for page 9 that 22 had to do with the fact that the Mint set with the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 32 1 full copper cent or "W" mint mark. 2 As well as item -- the next item was 3 the five dollar and/or ten dollar higher value 4 circulating coins. 5 stands for now. 6 Congressional Gold Medal and just having commemorative 7 coins. 8 9 So that would be what the motion And the item with respect to removing Any further questions on the motion as modified? Hearing none. All those in favor, "aye." 10 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 11 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 12 Aye. Those opposed, "nay." The motion carries. 13 MR. BERNSTEIN: Mr. Chairman, this is 14 Arthur Bernstein. In keeping with the suggestion, I 15 would now like to move that we add to our list of 16 recommended ideas with the suggestion that with 17 appropriate legislation we are recommending item A, 18 Mint set with full copper cent or "W" mint mark and B, 19 five dollar and/or ten dollar higher value circulating 20 coins. 21 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 22 MR. SAUNDERS: Is there a second? I have a question. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 33 1 2 CHAIRMAN BROWN: second. 3 4 MR. SCARINCI: Donald Scarinci, I'll second. 5 6 First, we need a CHAIRMAN BROWN: Okay. Now, John, please? 7 MR. SAUNDERS: I thought was just 8 established that the Mint had the authority for the 9 copper cent or the "W" mint mark? 10 MR. BERNSTEIN: 11 This is Art Bernstein, but -- 12 I didn't hear that. MR. WEINMAN: It's -- this is Greg 13 Weinman. It is not clear that the Mint has the 14 authority to make an entirely copper cent for 15 numismatic purposes. 16 authority says on the subject of the cent, The 17 Secretary describes the weight and composition of 18 copper and zinc in the alloy of the one cent coin. 19 The Secretary decides when appropriate. 20 Secretary decides that a different weight and alloy of 21 copper and zinc are necessary to ensure an adequate 22 supply of one-cent coins to meet the needs of the What is -- what the -- what our www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 When the Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 34 1 United States." 2 Is it possible to interpret that, that 3 the numismatic coin that is all copper is necessary to 4 meet the needs of the United States? 5 interpretation but is not one that I'm willing to make 6 sitting here today. 7 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 8 MR. SAUNDERS: 9 10 '09 then? How did they do it in 2009? MR. MORAN: On the collector's sets, yes. 13 MR. SAUNDERS: 14 MR. MORAN: 15 John? Because that's exactly what happened in 11 12 How'd they -- Making cents with the different reverses, those were copper. 16 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: 17 MR. SAUNDERS: 18 Those were bronze. That was a specific legislation act? 19 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 20 Lawrence Brown. 21 we speak, please. 22 It's a possible Colleagues. This is We have to mention our names before MR. WEINMAN: This is Greg. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 That was Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 35 1 based on legislation at the time. 2 MR. SAUNDERS: John Saunders. Thank 3 you, Greg. Maybe I would offer an amendment that we 4 suggest it as a legislative, you know, subject to it 5 being appropriate to do so with existing law and if 6 it's not appropriate with existing law, we suggest it 7 be put into the -- it's not worth a bill by itself, 8 but the next appropriate bill. 9 10 MR. TUCKER: motion. I think that was the This is Dennis Tucker. 11 MR. BERNSTEIN: I was just going to say 12 -- this is Arthur Bernstein. That was my intent, 13 John. 14 concepts that we would like to see pursued 15 understanding that it may require -- will likely 16 require legislative activity. Suggesting these last two items be presented as 17 MR. SAUNDERS: 18 CHAIRMAN BROWN: Okay. Okay. Does that 19 authority- okay. This is Lawrence Brown. Are there 20 any further comments or questions on the motion? 21 Hearing none. 22 signify by saying "aye." All those in favor of the motion please www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 36 1 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 2 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 3 please signify by saying "nay." 4 have it. 5 6 All those opposed, The ayes appear to Thank you so much. MR. BERNSTEIN: Mr. Chairman, may that be reported as a unanimous vote? 7 8 Aye. CHAIRMAN BROWN: You certainly may. It sounds like it from my perspective. 9 MR. BERNSTEIN: 10 CHAIRMAN BROWN: Thank you. Before the last action 11 of today, I would like to thank the CCAC members and 12 the U.S. Mint staff for their attendance yesterday and 13 today. 14 for his contributions during his maiden voyage. 15 Finally, and equally important, I would like to thank 16 the members of the public and the numismatic community 17 for the time they spent listening yesterday and today. 18 I want to especially recognize Dr. Capozolla As your feedback is critical to the 19 CCAC, please do not hesitate to provide your feedback 20 or questions about this two-day meeting by e-mailing 21 the CCAC at Info@CCAC.gov. 22 The next meeting is scheduled to be in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 37 1 November and there will be a federal register notice 2 that will announce the time of the meeting. 3 that date is November 28th. 4 5 I will now entertain a motion to adjourn. 6 MR. MORAN: 7 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 8 MR. BERNSTEIN: 9 So moved, Michael Moran. Is there a second? Second by Art Bernstein. 10 11 CHAIRMAN BROWN: All those in favor "aye." 12 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 13 CHAIRMAN BROWN: 14 I think have it. Aye. Seems like the ayes Have a great remainder of the day. 15 (Whereupon, the meeting concluded at 16 9:31 a.m.) 17 18 19 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 38 1 2 CERTIFICATE I, MATTHEW YANCEY, the officer before whom 3 the foregoing proceedings were taken, do hereby 4 certify that any witness(es) in the foregoing 5 proceedings, prior to testifying, were duly sworn; 6 that the proceedings were recorded by me and 7 thereafter reduced to typewriting by a qualified 8 transcriptionist; that said digital audio recording of 9 said proceedings are a true and accurate record to the 10 best of my knowledge, skills, and ability; that I am 11 neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any 12 of the parties to the action in which this was taken; 13 and, further, that I am not a relative or employee of 14 any counsel or attorney employed by the parties 15 hereto, nor financially or otherwise interested in the 16 outcome of this action. 17 MATTHEW YANCEY 18 Notary Public in and for the 19 District of Columbia 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 25, 2023 Page 39 1 2 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER I, BAMBI FEASTER, do hereby certify that 3 this transcript was prepared from the digital audio 4 recording of the foregoing proceeding, that said 5 transcript is a true and accurate record of the 6 proceedings to the best of my knowledge, skills, and 7 ability; that I am neither counsel for, related to, 8 nor employed by any of the parties to the action in 9 which this was taken; and, further, that I am not a 10 relative or employee of any counsel or attorney 11 employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or 12 otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. 13 14 15 BAMBI FEASTER 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting [09 - april] 0 09 34:9 1 1 18:21 11 4:3 14 4:3 1794 13:10,14 18 4:4 19:13 18th 12:13 14:8 14:20 19 23:20 24:4 1929 29:13 19th 12:13 14:8 14:20 2 2009 34:10 2015 12:20 202 1:14 2022 18:21 20220 1:13 2023 1:6 5:4 8:16 18:22 19:13 20:16 2024 8:13 9:3 21:6 2024-25 12:6 2025 8:12 2029 29:14 21 4:5 21st 12:22 24k 8:13 15:2 25 1:6 5:4 26 23:7,11 28th 37:3 October 25, 2023 Page 1 3 30 18:22 30th 19:7 31 19:2 32 4:5 360-3154 1:14 5 50 23:15 5135 19:1 6 6043349 1:20 8 801 1:12 8:58 1:7 5:5 9 9 5:5 27:11 29:8 30:3 31:13,21 9:31 37:16 9th 1:12 a a.m. 1:7 37:16 ability 38:10 39:7 absolutely 29:18 acceptance 21:22 accompanying 12:18 accurate 38:9 39:5 act 34:18 action 27:16 36:10 38:12,16 39:8,12 activity 35:16 actually 24:11 24:17 28:12 add 25:22 32:15 added 22:17 additional 15:14 18:19 19:10 addressed 11:13 adequate 33:21 adjourn 37:5 administrative 16:22 17:1,8 advance 16:7 advice 25:7 advisory 5:4 8:16 9:3 12:5 advocated 12:11 affairs 3:9,13 3:14 10:20 11:5,6 19:6 affiliations 6:9 agenda 8:10 13:15 15:16 agree 28:9 agreed 21:13 ahead 16:4 alfen 2:19 7:19 7:21 20:8,8 24:11,12 26:9 26:20 allegorical 13:8 allow 12:21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 alloy 33:18,20 alternatively 27:4 amendment 35:3 american 2:9 8:7,12,14 12:6 12:16,22 13:3 13:5,7,16 amos 3:16 9:11 amounts 20:19 anew 6:14 announce 37:2 annual 8:16 9:3 18:18,21 19:3,22 20:16 21:6 23:5,6,6 25:8,15 answer 16:11 16:13 apologize 17:4 appear 36:3 appointed 22:16 appreciate 15:21 appropriate 17:3 26:15 32:17 33:19 35:5,6,8 approval 8:15 19:11 approve 19:22 27:22 approved 20:16 23:7 april 2:21 9:17 Meeting [area - cents] area 27:10 arena 6:7 argue 31:9 art 21:12,18,21 27:9 28:2,4,13 28:18,21 31:14 33:11 37:8 arthur 2:5 4:5 5:15 6:18 20:6 32:14 35:12 article 19:2 artist 12:21 arts 7:11 asked 22:10 attendance 36:12 attendees 2:2 attending 9:14 attorney 38:14 39:10 audio 38:8 39:3 authority 17:15 20:4 25:2,10,13 26:6,18 29:14 31:4,8,10 33:8 33:14,16 35:19 authorize 19:22 authorizes 24:22 availability 15:1 aye 13:22 14:1 15:7,8 20:11 20:12 32:9,10 35:22 36:1 37:11,12 October 25, 2023 Page 2 ayes 14:3 36:3 37:13 b b 29:9 32:18 back 5:3 16:3 background 23:2 bader 24:14 29:6 baijal 3:6 10:13,15 bambi 39:2,15 banking 19:5 based 15:15 35:1 began 5:6 22:20 bela 29:12 believe 12:8 bernstein 2:5 4:5 5:15,17 6:10,18,20 20:6,6 21:12 21:19,20,21 22:7 27:8,9 28:11,13,21,22 29:17,22 31:14 31:14 32:13,14 33:10,11 35:11 35:12 36:5,9 37:8,9 best 38:10 39:6 beyond 13:7 27:11,14 31:6 31:9 bill 35:7,8 bit 27:11,19 boneza 3:5 10:10 bootstrapping 26:17 borer 3:3 10:4 10:6 bother 6:13 brendan 3:13 9:6 11:4 bring 19:20 bronze 34:16 brown 1:5 2:3 4:4 5:2,18,22 6:5,14,21 7:2,5 7:10,13,16,19 7:22 8:3,6,9,22 9:12,20 10:1,4 10:7,10,13,16 10:19 11:1,4,8 11:11,15,17 13:20 14:2,12 15:5,9,11,13 15:17 18:16 20:9,13 22:2,4 22:6,10,16 24:7 25:19,21 27:18 28:15 30:15,16,21 31:6,18,19 32:11,21 33:1 33:5 34:7,19 34:20 35:18,19 36:2,7,10 37:7 37:10,13 business 21:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 c c 2:1 3:1 4:1 5:1 call 5:2,14 6:4 6:17 called 9:16 candidate 8:12 capitol 27:6 capozolla 8:2,5 8:6,8 10:22 36:13 capozzola 2:9 carries 14:3 15:10 20:14 32:12 catalog 13:4 ccac 1:1 2:4 3:9 3:12 5:9,13 10:21 11:2 12:19 19:2 20:4,21 21:7 21:16 22:17 25:3 31:7 36:11,19,21 ccac's 18:18 31:7,10 ccac.gov. 36:21 ccacs 21:1 celebrates 13:6 celebrating 29:13 cent 30:5 31:2 31:5 32:1,18 33:9,14,16,18 33:22 cents 29:21 34:14 Meeting [centuries - consideration] centuries 14:9 14:21 century 12:13 12:22 certain 12:12 certainly 27:2 36:7 certificate 38:1 39:1 certify 38:4 39:2 chair 20:4 22:11,15 26:22 chairman 5:2 5:18,22 6:2,5 6:14,21 7:2,5 7:10,13,16,19 7:22 8:3,6,9,22 9:12,20 10:1,4 10:7,10,13,16 10:19 11:1,4,8 11:11,15 13:19 13:20 14:2,12 15:5,9,13,17 18:16 20:9,13 21:20 22:2,4,6 24:7 25:19,21 27:8,18 28:15 30:15,21 31:6 31:18 32:11,13 32:21 33:1,5 34:7,19 35:18 36:2,5,7,10 37:7,10,13 chairperson 2:4 championed 23:22 chance 22:10 chart 23:8,11 charter 24:22 25:10,18 26:19 27:15 chief 2:21 9:17 chris 2:9 8:4,6 circulating 27:13 29:9 32:4,19 citizens 5:3 8:16 9:3 12:4 clarification 24:21 30:20 classic 12:15 14:6,17,18 classical 13:8 cleaner 28:8 clear 27:13 33:13 clearly 27:15 code 19:2 coin 3:16 8:13 9:11 12:7 13:5 13:16 17:15 24:15 26:3,13 26:14 27:3,15 29:3,9 33:18 34:3 coinage 5:3 8:16 9:3 12:4 23:21 coined 29:13 coinnews 3:17 9:10 coins 12:18 15:2 23:2,9 27:13 29:1 October 25, 2023 Page 3 31:17 32:4,7 32:20 33:22 colleagues 5:13 6:16 34:19 collector's 34:11 columbia 38:19 come 16:3 29:7 commemorat... 29:11 commemorat... 23:2,9 24:15 25:1,9 26:3,13 26:14 27:3,15 29:3 31:17 32:6 commenting 18:4 comments 13:21 14:12 15:6,14 19:19 24:7 35:20 committee 5:4 5:13 6:16 8:16 9:3 12:5 13:12 15:18 18:1,3 19:4,5,14,20 23:22 24:1,8 25:15 committee's 15:22 committees 5:12 communicated 19:8 communicati... 3:15 11:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 community 21:11 36:16 complete 19:10 composition 33:17 conceived 12:19 concept 13:6 concepts 13:3 23:20 29:1 35:14 conclude 25:4 concluded 37:15 conclusion 21:15 confirm 9:13 confused 30:9 congress 19:9 20:1 21:18 24:20 26:2,6 27:1,3,4 30:12 congressional 22:22 23:1 24:15,17 25:3 26:3,5,10,16 27:1,5 29:2,4 31:16 32:6 connected 16:9 cons 15:22 consensus 23:17 consider 12:12 13:13 26:15 27:4 consideration 18:17 26:7 Meeting [considered - edits] considered 13:16 considering 16:14 23:15 consistent 19:7 cont.d 3:1 continue 21:8 contributions 36:14 conversation 27:22 coordination 20:4 copper 29:21 30:5 31:2,5 32:1,18 33:9 33:14,18,21 34:3,15 copy 19:16 22:9 corporate 3:15 11:9 correct 17:16 17:17 31:15 corrections 19:19 20:5 costello 3:7 10:16,18 counsel 3:11,11 11:2,2 27:14 38:11,14 39:7 39:10 create 31:4 critical 36:18 curator 2:20 7:20 current 20:22 October 25, 2023 Page 4 d d 5:1 darla 2:15 7:10 22:15 date 19:12 37:3 day 5:6,6 23:12 36:20 37:14 dc 1:13 deal 31:1 december 19:13 decides 33:19 33:20 definition 25:4 delete 31:16 deleting 29:4 delicately 27:6 27:10 delivery 19:12 dennis 2:18 7:16 35:10 denominations 28:4 department 1:10 25:12 describes 13:4 33:17 deserving 23:21 design 2:21,22 3:2,3,4,5,6,7 9:18,21 10:2,4 10:7,11,13,17 12:6,9,11 13:10 15:20 16:1,10,14,15 17:22 18:2,4 designs 8:12 12:13,16 14:8 14:20 determine 21:16 develop 12:21 different 24:2 33:20 34:15 digital 38:8 39:3 director 3:8 10:20 discontinuance 29:13 discontinued 12:12 14:7,19 discretionary 17:19 discuss 17:2,3 24:4 discussing 17:11 discussion 8:11 9:2 16:2,6,16 20:10 21:5 discussions 14:13 27:14 distinction 15:1 distinctive 12:15 distribute 20:20 district 38:19 document 19:19 20:19,21 26:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 doing 18:18 26:16 28:22 dollar 13:10,15 15:19 16:10 29:8,9,12 32:3 32:3,19,19 donald 2:16 7:13 13:19 14:11 26:21 33:3 dr 1:5 2:3,6,9 2:19 4:4 5:18 5:20 7:2,19,21 8:2,5,6,8,20 10:22 11:17 15:11 20:8 22:10 24:11 26:9,20 36:13 draft 19:15 23:6 drop 28:19 drops 28:22 due 19:6 duly 38:5 e e 2:1,1 3:1,1 4:1 5:1,1 36:20 earlier 19:9 20:2 early 5:5 6:11 16:20 17:8,9 18:13 easier 27:19 editor 3:16,17 9:9,11 edits 20:2 Meeting [efficiently - hair] efficiently 28:9 effort 12:7 13:1 either 9:14 20:2 24:15 25:9 26:13 electronically 22:9 employed 38:11,14 39:8 39:11 employee 38:13 39:10 encompasses 19:14 engraving 3:7 10:17 ensure 33:21 entertain 15:18 37:4 entirely 33:14 equally 36:15 es 38:4 especially 27:6 36:13 established 33:8 evans 3:4 10:7 10:9 exactly 34:9 example 16:18 excellent 12:8 28:13 except 31:13,21 excuse 6:8 30:7 existing 35:5,6 expected 19:12 experienced 21:8 October 25, 2023 Page 5 explanation 11:19 exploring 13:7 f fact 11:16 27:20 31:21,22 fails 13:10 falls 17:18 father's 23:12 favor 13:22 15:7 20:11 32:9 35:21 37:10 feaster 39:2,15 feature 12:13 february 22:11 federal 37:1 feedback 36:18 36:19 felt 27:16 final 23:14,14 23:19 finally 8:22 36:15 financial 19:4 financially 38:15 39:11 find 24:12 fine 18:8 26:10 first 11:20 13:13,13 18:20 19:18 33:1 fiscal 8:15 9:2 19:15 20:16 21:1,6 five 25:1 29:8 29:12 32:3,19 flowing 13:14 15:19 16:10 following 8:11 9:14 13:12 25:1 foregoing 38:3 38:4 39:4 forgive 28:3 forum 17:3 forward 24:17 forwarded 21:17 31:21 founder 3:17 9:9 four 23:16 front 23:20 30:21 full 29:20 30:5 31:2,5 32:1,18 fuller 2:6 5:18 5:20 7:2 8:20 8:20 fully 13:2 further 13:10 15:5 32:8 35:20 38:13 39:9 future 9:1 21:4 23:21 g g 5:1 general 2:3,5,8 5:16 6:19,22 20:20 23:5,9 gilkes 3:16 9:10 ginsburg 24:14 29:6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 give 20:3 26:8 gives 25:10 go 11:20 24:5 goal 13:3 going 11:18 18:9 30:14,16 35:11 gold 8:13 12:7 12:18 13:5,16 15:2 24:15,17 25:3 26:3,5,10 26:16 27:1,5 29:2,4,11,12 29:14 32:6 good 5:2 27:16 government 3:13 11:5 grace 24:14 graciously 21:13 great 37:14 greg 3:11 11:1 16:8,10 33:12 34:22 35:3 group 3:17 9:1 9:10 21:5,14 21:14 22:12,14 22:19,22 group's 21:7 21:15 guess 16:7 24:20 26:12 28:12 h hair 13:14 15:19 16:10 Meeting [hanchock - legislative] hanchock 3:5 10:10,12 hand 21:18 25:20 handle 28:6 happened 34:9 happy 15:18 harcourt 2:6 5:18 7:2 8:19 8:20 hard 22:9 head 21:13 hear 8:19 24:9 33:10 hearing 13:21 15:6,15 19:21 20:10 24:10 32:9 35:21 hereto 38:15 39:11 hesitate 36:19 high 8:13 12:7 higher 27:12 29:9 32:3,19 hill 27:6 historic 16:1 history 2:10 8:7 hoard 2:8 5:22 6:21 7:1 29:19 30:3 31:11 hold 18:14 honored 22:10 hope 22:9 hoping 16:11 hopper 24:14 house 2:7,11 5:19 7:3 19:4 October 25, 2023 Page 6 housing 19:5 how'd 34:13 i idea 12:16 26:8 27:16 28:14,14 29:8 ideal 12:14 ideas 23:5,8,15 32:16 identified 25:17 identify 30:14 images 12:14 12:22 14:7,19 imagine 30:5 impartial 21:9 implement 13:2 14:6,17 implemented 12:20 important 18:19 36:15 include 8:10 29:16 30:22 31:1 included 26:2 includes 19:15 including 20:22 23:1 indicate 9:15 info 36:21 information 16:4 20:21 24:9 informed 21:8 initiated 13:1 input 15:22 intent 35:12 interest 18:20 21:10 interested 38:15 39:12 intergovernm... 3:9,14 10:20 11:6 interpret 34:2 interpretation 34:5 interpretations 13:6 issue 28:1,4 issues 11:13 item 15:16 29:7 29:9,10 31:1 32:2,2,5,17 items 23:22 24:8 25:16 27:21 30:17 31:20 35:13 j jackson 2:15 7:10,12 22:15 jennifer 3:8 10:19 25:19,21 30:8 job 1:20 21:12 john 2:11 7:5 22:15 33:5 34:7 35:2,13 joined 5:20 7:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 k keep 21:21 keeping 32:14 kellen 2:8 5:22 22:16 kellon 6:21 kinds 28:22 know 16:16 18:14 29:22 35:4 knowledge 38:10 39:6 l larger 20:19 larry 22:15 late 6:12,12 law 25:5 35:5,6 lawrence 1:5 2:3 4:4 30:16 31:19 34:20 35:19 lawyer 30:1 leader 2:12,14 2:17 7:8,14 leave 26:10 29:17 left 23:17 28:19 legal 3:11 11:2 legally 18:3 legislation 25:17 32:17 34:18 35:1 legislative 3:8 3:14 10:20 11:5 25:13 26:18 27:16 35:4,16 Meeting [legislature - motions] legislature 25:4 25:5 letter 30:11,14 30:17 letters 26:1 liaison 3:9 10:21 30:8 liberty 8:13,14 12:6,14,17,22 13:3,5,7,9,16 14:6,18,18 lie 26:6 likely 35:15 list 2:2 23:14 24:6 27:17 28:20 29:5,5,7 31:16 32:15 listed 24:13 listening 5:8 36:17 listing 23:8 lists 23:20 little 27:11,19 30:9 llc 9:10 lombardi 6:10 longer 24:3 looked 22:21 23:3,4 looking 22:20 30:1 loretta 24:13 29:6 lynn 24:13 29:6 m made 22:14 23:14,14 27:13 October 25, 2023 Page 7 30:4 maiden 36:14 mailing 36:20 majority 2:13 7:8 make 13:12 17:15 20:4 25:11 27:19 31:8,12 33:14 34:5 maker 27:20 28:9,12 makes 6:5 making 14:22 34:14 management 2:21 9:18 10:2 manager 3:2,3 3:4,5,6,7 10:5 10:8,11,14,17 mark 29:20 30:5 31:2 32:1 32:18 33:9 matthew 1:19 38:2,17 mean 17:14 28:3 means 28:1 medal 8:14 12:6,15 13:17 14:6,18 17:15 26:4,5,11,16 27:5 29:2,4 32:6 medallic 7:11 medals 12:19 15:1 23:10 24:17 25:3 27:1 media 3:16,17 9:10,11 meet 33:22 34:4 meeting 1:1 5:3 5:6,8 16:20,22 17:2,7,8,12 18:10,13 19:17 20:3 36:20,22 37:2,15 meetings 22:21 23:16 megan 2:22 9:20 member 22:17 members 5:9 5:12 6:15 9:6 15:15 23:22 24:2 36:11,16 mention 34:20 metal 24:16 michael 2:13 3:7 4:3 7:7 10:16 22:5 28:15,18 37:6 microphones 5:9 mike 3:15,17 9:9 11:8,16,22 22:15 minority 2:11 2:16 7:14 mint 1:11 5:10 9:14,15 11:12 12:12 14:5,17 17:14,19 20:1 20:3,18 25:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 29:14,20,20 30:4,5 31:1,2,4 31:22 32:1,18 32:18 33:8,9 33:13 36:12 mint's 12:5,21 13:4 minutes 22:21 moderated 1:5 modern 13:3,6 modified 32:9 moment 6:3 27:7 monday 17:8 moran 2:13 4:3 7:7,9 11:16,17 12:2,4 14:4,16 15:3,11 16:22 22:3,5,5,15 28:17,19 29:10 29:18 34:11,14 37:6,6 morning 5:2 11:18 motion 11:20 11:21 13:14,18 14:3,4,10,13 14:15 15:6,10 18:5 19:21 20:10,14,15 27:20,21 28:6 28:10,12 29:16 30:22 31:12,20 32:4,8,12 35:10,20,21 37:4 motions 11:18 13:12 15:15 Meeting [move - possible] move 13:14 14:4 15:16 18:17 21:3,22 24:17 32:15 moved 37:6 moves 20:7 multiple 14:1 15:8 20:12 32:10 36:1 37:12 mute 5:8 8:18 n n 2:1 3:1 4:1,1 5:1 name 5:14 6:17 8:3 9:16 names 34:20 nature 25:9 nay 14:3 15:9 20:14 32:11 36:3 necessarily 25:15 necessary 20:5 33:21 34:3 need 11:13 33:1 needed 19:10 needs 13:2 33:22 34:4 neither 23:13 38:11 39:7 new 12:21 13:3 14:6,17,18 19:12 31:5 northwest 1:12 October 25, 2023 Page 8 notary 38:18 note 20:17 notice 16:7 17:20 37:1 november 16:3 37:1,3 number 24:13 numismatic 2:20 7:20 9:1 21:4,11 31:5 33:15 34:3 36:16 numismatics 2:15,18 7:17 o o 4:1 5:1 objection 20:15 objections 20:15 obverse 8:11 occur 19:11 october 1:6 5:4 18:21 offer 35:3 offered 31:19 offering 15:20 office 2:21 3:14 3:15 9:17 11:5 11:8 officer 38:2 oh 28:12 okay 5:22 7:6 12:2 15:4 18:7 18:11,11 22:6 26:20 30:19 33:5 35:17,18 35:19 old 23:4 open 16:15 17:7 opportunity 21:7 opposed 12:5 12:10 14:2 15:9 17:10,11 20:13 32:11 36:2 order 5:3 16:5 21:3,22 outcome 38:16 39:12 outreach 21:2 own 13:4 31:4 p p 2:1,1 3:1,1 5:1 page 4:2 23:7 27:11 29:8 30:3 31:13,21 pages 31:15 pam 3:3 10:4 papers 23:1,2 parliamentary 21:21 participating 5:10 particular 12:9 17:15 particularly 18:20 parties 38:12 38:14 39:8,11 past 19:8 22:13 22:20,22 25:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 25:7,14 26:1 pattern 12:13 14:8,20 paul 3:16 9:10 penguins 23:12 permissible 16:6 person 9:14 perspective 36:8 peter 2:19 7:19 20:8 24:12 28:3 phenomenal 21:12 phone 8:19 piece 29:12 pieces 14:8,20 31:12 planning 24:5 please 5:8,13 6:8,16 8:18,19 9:15 20:11 33:6 34:21 35:21 36:3,19 point 11:15,19 16:5 23:15 24:21 28:2 30:3 points 18:19 portfolio 14:7 14:19 27:11 portraits 13:8 possibility 15:19 possible 23:13 34:2,4 Meeting [possibly - report] possibly 26:15 practices 19:8 pratt 29:12 preamble 11:20 prefers 27:4 prepared 24:4 39:3 present 5:14,17 6:16,20 7:1,9 7:12,15,18,21 8:8,21 9:15,19 9:22 10:3,6,9 10:12,15,18,22 11:3,7,10,18 22:8 presented 35:13 president 25:6 press 9:6 previous 22:12 22:21 23:3 31:15 printed 20:19 prior 19:16 20:3 38:5 problem 29:15 procedures 21:22 proceeding 39:4 proceedings 9:5 38:3,5,6,9 39:6 product 31:5 program 12:9 12:15,17,20,21 13:1,5,5,17 October 25, 2023 Page 9 17:18 26:14 27:3 programs 25:1 25:12 proposed 12:5 pros 15:22 provide 21:14 36:19 provides 21:7 providing 20:18 public 1:1 2:3,5 2:8 5:7,12,16 6:19,22 16:7 17:3,12,20 20:20 21:2,10 23:5,9 31:19 36:16 38:18 public's 18:20 purpose 12:20 13:11 purposes 33:15 pursuant 19:1 pursued 35:14 put 25:15 27:17 30:14,17 35:7 q qualified 2:9 2:15,18,19 7:11,17,20 8:7 38:7 question 15:21 16:8 17:5 24:20 28:18 30:8,21 32:22 questions 13:20 15:5,18 24:6 32:8 35:20 36:20 quickly 22:17 quite 27:13 quorum 8:1,10 r r 2:1 3:1 5:1 raise 28:2,4 raised 25:20 ranged 23:12 read 22:10,22 really 26:6 received 22:1,8 recognize 11:16 36:13 recommend 14:5,16 24:19 24:22 25:3,10 26:13,14 27:3 29:15 31:12 recommenda... 24:16 26:1 31:8 recommenda... 9:2 21:5,17 25:11 30:4,11 recommended 2:6,11,13,16 5:19 7:3,7,14 24:5 25:14 29:11 32:16 recommending 26:22 32:17 record 9:13 38:9 39:5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 recorded 38:6 recording 38:8 39:4 reduced 38:7 reference 26:5 referring 30:2 register 37:1 reintroduce 5:11 6:15 related 38:11 39:7 relative 38:13 39:10 relief 8:13 12:7 remain 29:6 remainder 28:1 37:14 remind 5:7 reminds 6:6 remotely 5:10 9:7,15 remove 18:6 28:5 29:20 removed 13:15 removing 32:5 rendition 12:8 13:15 renew 11:19 repeat 14:14 26:9 rephrase 17:4 report 8:17 9:1 9:4 18:18,21 19:3,6,10,13 19:14,16,22 20:16 21:4,6,7 21:14,16 22:1 22:8 23:5,6,7 Meeting [report - spent] 23:19 24:1 25:8,16 27:12 28:5 29:16 30:10,12,13,17 31:20 reported 1:19 36:6 reports 23:4 representing 2:3,5,8 5:15 6:1,18,22 21:10 require 25:16 27:15 35:15,16 research 23:1,1 resource 21:9 respect 12:7 24:8 28:2,4 32:5 respond 5:14 6:16 resume 9:5 resurrecting 12:12 reverse 8:12 reverses 34:15 review 8:11,15 reviewing 16:15 18:2 revisiting 16:1 right 30:19 31:4 roger 3:2 10:1 roll 6:3 russell 3:4 10:7 ruth 24:14 29:6 October 25, 2023 Page 10 s s 2:1 3:1 4:1 5:1 sake 31:18 saunders 2:11 7:5 22:15 32:22 33:7 34:8,13,17 35:2,2,17 saying 13:22 14:3 15:7 20:11 35:22 36:3 says 33:16 scarinci 2:16 6:2 7:13,15 13:18,19 14:10 14:11 16:5,13 16:19 17:1,6 17:11,16 18:5 18:9,12 26:21 26:22 33:3,3 scheduled 36:22 sculpture 7:11 second 5:6 11:21 13:18 14:4,10 19:1 20:8 22:2,3,4 28:16,17 32:21 33:2,4 37:7,8 secretary 19:3 19:9 20:1 21:9 21:17 26:2 30:13 31:8 33:17,19,20 section 19:1 see 23:8 24:2 29:14 35:14 seeing 13:21 19:21 seem 28:7 seems 37:13 semi 26:4 senate 2:16 7:14 19:5 senator 7:8 send 30:10,10 30:12 senior 2:22 3:2 3:11,13,16 9:11,20 10:1 11:1,4 sense 6:6 13:11 sent 19:16 26:2 separately 28:6 september 18:22 19:7 series 14:6,18 serve 21:8,13 service 23:2 services 19:4 session 8:10 set 29:20 30:5 31:2,22 32:18 sets 34:11 several 23:22 share 18:19 short 20:22 shorter 24:3 showing 6:13 signed 9:7 25:5 signify 13:22 14:2 15:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 20:11 35:22 36:3 silver 8:14 12:6 12:15,19 13:17 14:6,18 15:1 simply 29:3,7 31:16 sitting 34:6 skills 38:10 39:6 smaller 20:19 solomon 28:14 soon 22:16 sorry 24:11,12 28:3 sounds 36:8 speak 11:22 34:21 speaker 2:6 5:19 7:3 34:16 speakers 14:1 15:8 20:12 32:10 36:1 37:12 speaking 18:3 27:9 special 16:20 specialist 2:22 3:13 9:21 11:5 specially 2:9,15 2:18,19 7:11 7:17,20 8:7 specific 24:6,9 34:17 specifically 24:22 25:16,17 spent 36:17 Meeting [sports - unanimous] sports 6:7 staff 9:14,15 36:12 stafford 2:21 9:17,19 14:14 14:22 15:4,17 16:9,17 17:21 18:15 stand 15:20 standard 20:21 standpoint 17:19 stands 32:5 start 6:3 11:13 state 2:13 stated 13:11 states 14:5,17 19:2 20:1 34:1 34:4 statute 19:6,8 step 16:4 stick 25:8 stop 17:14 18:3 street 1:12 strike 29:14 strongly 14:5 14:16 struck 30:6 styles 24:2 subcommittee 22:12,18 subcommittees 22:13 23:4 subject 33:16 35:4 submit 19:3 20:1 October 25, 2023 Page 11 submitted 12:10 20:2 23:8 subtract 27:21 successfully 13:1 suggest 27:18 29:15 30:17 35:4,6 suggested 26:7 29:2,3 suggesting 24:14 27:12 30:12 35:13 suggestion 32:14,16 suggestions 26:3,11 sukrita 3:6 10:13 sullivan 2:22 9:20,22 summary 20:22 supply 33:22 sure 16:16 18:7 sworn 38:5 t t 4:1,1 take 29:5 taken 24:19 38:3,12 39:9 talk 18:10,12 tate 3:13 5:20 7:4 8:18 9:6,8 11:4,7,14,22 12:3 25:19 technical 20:5 technically 25:2 tell 27:2 ten 29:8 32:3 32:19 tend 6:7 terms 24:2 testifying 38:5 text 13:4 thank 6:5 8:9 8:21 9:8,12 11:11,17 15:11 15:13 18:15,16 20:9 22:7 30:19 35:2 36:4,9,11,15 thanks 12:3 theme 13:7 themes 9:1 21:4 23:13,13 theoretically 26:12 thing 19:18 things 25:8 27:9 think 7:22 17:2 17:6,6 23:20 26:4,16,17,21 26:22 28:13,22 31:15 35:9 37:2 thought 33:7 time 5:5 6:7,8 6:11,12 15:15 16:3 19:10 35:1 36:17 37:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 times 26:7 tirelessly 20:18 today 17:12 21:15 34:6 36:11,13,17 today's 8:10 13:15 took 23:17 tool 21:1 tradition 13:8 transcriber 39:1 transcript 39:3 39:5 transcriptionist 38:8 treasury 1:10 19:4 21:9 25:11 true 38:9 39:5 trying 30:9 tucker 2:18 7:16,18 35:9 35:10 two 5:6 9:9 11:18 13:12 18:19 23:3 28:22 35:13 36:20 typewriting 38:7 u u.s. 1:11 5:10 36:12 unanimous 36:6 Meeting [under - zoom] under 17:19 understand 16:17 understanding 24:18 35:15 united 14:5,17 19:2,22 34:1,4 unknown 34:16 unser 3:17 9:9 urban 19:6 use 16:10,17 used 20:20 using 14:7,19 15:19 30:13 usually 30:10 utilizing 17:21 18:2 v value 27:12 29:9 32:3,19 van 2:19 7:19 7:21 20:8,8 24:11,12 26:9 26:20 various 23:8 vasquez 3:2 10:1,3 versus 15:1 videoconfere... 2:7 3:3,10 vince 6:10 vote 21:16 36:6 voyage 36:14 October 25, 2023 Page 12 w w 29:20 30:5 31:2 32:1,18 33:9 wait 6:3 want 5:11 6:15 27:2 36:13 warren 3:8 10:19 25:20,22 30:7,8,19 washington 1:13 way 23:13 we've 22:12 27:22 wednesday 1:6 5:4 week 16:20,21 17:8,9 18:13 22:1 weight 33:17 33:20 weinman 3:11 11:1,3 16:12 17:4,10,13,18 18:1,7,11 24:21 26:12 30:2 31:3,9 33:12,13 34:22 went 12:8 23:16 27:10 white 3:15 11:8 11:10 whittled 23:16 willing 16:2 27:21 34:5 wish 13:12 witness 38:4 women 24:13 worded 27:6 27:10 words 31:3 work 19:14 22:20 worked 20:18 working 9:1 21:5,6,14,15 22:11,18,22 world 3:16 9:11 worth 35:7 written 24:1 wrong 12:9 y yancey 1:19 38:2,17 yeah 16:18 26:22 28:13 year 8:15 9:3 18:21 19:7,9 19:15 20:16,17 21:1,6 22:11 years 12:11 25:1 yesterday 5:6 36:12,17 z zinc 33:18,21 zoom 16:20 17:7,7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376