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Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 1 1 1 2 2 + + + + + 3 3 CITIZENS COINAGE ADVISORY COMMITTEE 4 4 + + + + + 5 5 MEETING 6 6 + + + + + 7 7 TUESDAY, 8 9 UNITED STATES MINT OCTOBER 15, 2024 8 10 11 + + + + + 9 12 13 The Citizens Coinage Advisory 10 14 Committee at 801 9th Street, N.W., Washington, D.C., at 9:00 a.m., Peter van Alfen, Chair, 15 11 presiding. 16 12 CCAC MEMBERS PRESENT: 17 13 PETER VAN ALFEN, the member Specially Qualified 18 19 as a Numismatic Curator and the Chairperson of 14 20 21 ARTHUR BERNSTEIN, Representing the General Public 15 22 23 DR. CHRISTOPHER CAPOZZOLA, the member Specially Qualified in American History 16 24 25 the CCAC JEANNE STEVENS-SOLLMAN, the member Specially Qualified in Sculpture or Medallic Arts 17 JOHN SAUNDERS, Recommended by the House Minority www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 2 1 Leader 18 2 3 Leader 19 4 5 DONALD SCARINCI, Recommended by the Senate Minority Leader 20 6 7 MICHAEL MORAN, Recommended by the Senate Majority SAM GELBERD, the member Specially Qualified in Numismatics 21 8 KELLEN HOARD, Representing the General Public* ANNELISA PURDIE, Representing the General Public 9 22 10 23 11 24 12 0002 13 1 UNITED STATES MINT STAFF PRESENT: 14 2 KRISTIE McNALLY, Deputy Director 15 16 APRIL STAFFORD, Office of Design Management 3 17 18 ROGER VASQUEZ, Senior Design Specialist 4 19 20 5 25 SUKRITA BAIJAL, Design Manager JOSEPH MENNA, Chief Engraver 6 23 24 RUSSELL EVANS, Design Manager BONEZA HANCHOCK, Design Manager 21 22 MEGAN SULLIVAN, Senior Design Specialist MICHAEL COSTELLO, Manager of Design and Engraving JENNIFER WARREN, Director of Legislative and 7 Intergovernmental Affairs and Liaison to CCAC GREG WEINMAN, Deputy Chief Counsel and Counsel to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 3 1 8 the CCAC BRENDAN TATE, Senior Government Affairs 2 9 Specialist, Office of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs 3 10 ALSO PRESENT: 4 11 DENNIS TUCKER, CCAC Public Service Awardee 5 12 6 7 Legislative Archives, National Archives and 13 8 9 14 15 16 National Women's History Museum* ALLIDA BLACK, Managing Director, Allenswood Group 17 16 17 American History and Culture* JEN HERRERA, Vice President, External Affairs, 14 15 Frederick Douglass* MARY ELLIOTT, Curator, National Museum of African 12 13 Research Administration* KEN MORRIS, Great-great-great grandson of 10 11 RICHARD HUNT, Director of the Center for LLC* ANGELA TATE, Museum of African American History, 18 18 Boston* RUBY BRIDGES, Ruby Bridges Foundation* 19 19 20 20 21 LANCE VOLLAND, Ruby Bridges Foundation* *Present via Video Teleconference 22 21 23 22 24 23 25 24 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 4 1 1 2 2 AGENDA 3 3 Call to Order & Roll Call. . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 4 4 Review and Approval of Minutes . . . . . . . . . .10 5 C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S PAGE and Letters to Secretary from the 6 5 September 24, 2024, Public Meeting 7 6 Comments from Chair. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .11 8 7 Public Service Award for Dennis. . . . . . . . . .11 9 10 Tucker 8 11 12 Review and Discussion of the . . . . . . . . . . .21 9 13 14 Platinum Proof Coins 10 15 16 Candidate Designs for the 2026-2028 Review and Discussion of the . . . . . . . . . . .23 11 17 Candidate Designs for 2026 Semiquincentennial Quarter #1 18 12 Declaration of Independence 19 13 Review and Discussion of the . . . . . . . . . . .26 20 21 Candidate Designs for 2026 14 22 23 U.S. Constitution 15 24 25 Semiquincentennial Quarter #2 Discussion of the Results of Scoring . . . . . . .31 16 from Morning Session www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 5 1 17 Review and Discussion of Candidate . . . . . . . 151 Designs for the 2026 2 18 Semiquincentennial Quarter #3 Abolitionism 3 19 Review and Discussion of Candidate . . . . . . . 153 4 20 Designs for the Suffrage 21 Review and Discussion of Candidate . . . . . . . 185 5 Designs for the 2026 22 6 Semiquincentennial Quarter #5 Civil Rights 23 7 24 0004 8 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 9 10 11 12 13 14 (9:00 a.m.) 3 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Good morning. 4 call to order this meeting of the Citizens 5 Coinage Advisory Committee for Tuesday, 6 October 15, 2024. 7 I The time is 9:01 a.m. This is the first day of a two-day 8 public meeting. Today's session is scheduled to 9 run until approximately 6:00 p.m., at which point 10 the CCAC will recess until tomorrow's session, 11 which is scheduled to begin promptly at 12 8:30 a.m., which is a half-hour later than what 13 was announced in the Federal Register notice. 14 Please note that this meeting today 15 15 and tomorrow is recorded, and I certainly do want 16 16 to welcome the public watching live on YouTube 17 17 today. 18 18 19 19 announce your name when you are speaking, for the 20 20 transcript and for the public listening. 21 21 22 22 the members of the Committee. 23 23 present when I call your name. 24 24 representing the general public. 25 25 Finally, I want to remind members to Before we begin, I want to introduce MEMBER BERNSTEIN: So, please respond Arthur Bernstein, Arthur Bernstein is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 6 1 present. 2 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 3 recommended by the Speaker of the House. 4 that Dr. Fuller, unfortunately, will not be 5 joining us today. 6 7 Dr. Harcourt Fuller, Dr. Christopher Capozzola, the Member Specially Qualified in American History. 8 MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: 9 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Present. Jeanne Stevens- 10 Sollman, the Member Specially Qualified in 11 Sculpture or Medallic Arts. 12 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: 13 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 14 I know Present. John Saunders, recommended by the House Minority Leader. 15 MEMBER SAUNDERS: Present. 16 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Michael Moran, 17 recommended by the Senate Majority Leader. 18 MEMBER MORAN: 19 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 20 Donald Scarinci, recommended by the Senate Minority Leader. 21 22 Present. MEMBER SCARINCI: Who was Chuck Schumer at the time, for the record. 23 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Present. Thank you, Donald. 24 Sam Gelberd, the Member Specially Qualified in 25 Numismatics. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 7 1 MEMBER GELBERD: 2 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 3 Present. Kellen Hoard, representing the general public. 4 MEMBER HOARD: 5 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 6 remotely today. 7 the general public. Present. Who is joining us Annelisa Purdie, representing 8 MEMBER PURDIE: 9 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Present. And I am Peter van 10 Alfen, the Member Specially Qualified as a 11 Numismatic Curator and the chairperson of the 12 CCAC. 13 And I believe we do have a quorum. The agenda for today's public meeting 14 includes the approval of minutes and letters to 15 the secretary from the September 24th, 2024, 16 public meeting; the public service award for 17 former CCAC member Dennis Tucker; the review and 18 discussion of candidate designs for the 2026 to 19 2028 Platinum Proof coins; the 2026 quarter 20 number one, Declaration of Independence; the 2026 21 quarter number two, U.S. Constitution; the 2026 22 quarter number three, Abolitionism; 2026 quarter 23 number four, Suffrage; and the 2026 quarter 24 number five, Civil Rights. 25 When we return tomorrow at 8:30 a.m., www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 8 1 we will at that time review and discuss the 2026 2 dime and the 2026 half-dollar. 3 Finally, tomorrow we will discuss and 4 identify design recommendations for all of the 5 aforementioned 2026 semi-quincentennial coins and 6 the next Platinum Proof series. 7 Before we begin our proceedings, I 8 will ask the Mint liaison to the CCAC, Ms. 9 Jennifer Warren, if we are aware of any members 10 of the press who are remotely watching the public 11 meeting. 12 MS. WARREN: This is Jennifer Warren. 13 Mike Unser, founder and editor of CoinNews Media 14 Group, and Paul Gilkes, Coin World's senior 15 editor. 16 17 18 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Jennifer. And welcome, gentlemen. For the record, I would also like to 19 confirm that the following Mint staff are in 20 attendance today. 21 after I have called your name. 22 Chief Office of Design Management. So, please indicate present 23 MS. STAFFORD: 24 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 25 April Stafford, Present. Megan Sullivan, Senior Design Specialist. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 9 1 MS. SULLIVAN: 2 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 3 Present. Senior Design Specialist. 4 MR. VASQUEZ: 5 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 6 Present. MR. EVANS: 8 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Present. MS. HANCHOCK: 11 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Present. MS. BAIJAL: 14 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Present. Joseph Menna, Chief Engraver. 16 MR. MENNA: 17 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 18 Sukrita Baijal, Design Manager. 13 15 Boneza Hanchock, Design Manager. 10 12 Russell Evans, Design Manager. 7 9 Roger Vasquez, Present. Michael Costello, Manager of Design and Engraving. 19 MR. COSTELLO: Present. 20 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Jennifer Warren, 21 Director of Legislative and Intergovernmental 22 Affairs and Liaison to the CCAC. 23 MS. WARREN: 24 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 25 Present. Greg Weinman, Deputy Chief Counsel and Counsel to the CCAC. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 10 1 MR. WEINMAN: Present. 2 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: And Brendan Tate, 3 Senior Government Affairs Specialist, Office of 4 Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs. 5 MR. TATE: Present. 6 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: And finally, I want 7 to note for the record that we will be joined 8 later in the meeting by stakeholders and subject 9 matter experts for the various coins we are 10 11 reviewing today. For the Platinum Proof Series 2026 12 quarter number one Declaration of Independence, 13 and 2026 quarter number two U.S. Constitution, we 14 may be joined by Richard Hunt, Director of the 15 Center for Legislative Archives at the National 16 Archives, the records administration, and Lee Ann 17 Potter, Director of Professional Learning and 18 Outreach Initiatives, Library of Congress. 19 For the 2026 quarter number three, 20 Abolitionism, we may be joined by Ken Morris, the 21 great-great-great-grandson of Frederick Douglass, 22 and Mary Elliott, Curator of the National Museum 23 of African-American History and Culture. 24 25 For the 2026 quarter number four, Suffrage, we may be joined by Jen Herrera, Vicewww.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 11 1 President, External Affairs, of the National 2 Women's History Museum, Dr. Sherie Randolph, 3 Associate Professor of History at the Georgia 4 Institute of Technology, Dr. Allida Black, 5 Managing Director, Allenswood Group LLC, Marjorie 6 Spruill, NWHM Scholars Advisory Council at the 7 National Women's History Museum, and Angela Tate, 8 Museum of African-American History in Boston, 9 Massachusetts. 10 For the 2026 quarter number five, 11 Civil Rights, we may be joined by Ruby Bridges 12 and Lance Volland, and Mary Elliott, Curator, 13 National Museum of African-American History and 14 Culture. 15 And we certainly look forward to 16 welcoming you all and to hearing your expertise 17 on these designs. 18 I'd like to begin now with the Mint. 19 Are there any other issues that need to be 20 addressed before we start? 21 All right. Well, hearing none, then 22 the first order of business for this Committee is 23 the review and approval of the CCAC minutes and 24 letters to the Secretary of the Treasury, from 25 our public meeting on September 24, 2024. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Are Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 12 1 there any comments on the documents? 2 3 All right. motion to approve the minutes and letters. 4 5 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: CHAIR VAN ALFEN: MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Chris Capozzola, Thank you very much. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye. 12 (Chorus of aye.) 13 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 14 Is there second. 10 11 All right. a second? 8 9 Arthur Bernstein, so moved. 6 7 Hearing none, is there a right. Any objections? All Hearing none, the motion carries. 15 The next order of business is, in 16 fact, a real pleasure. 17 presentation of the Citizens Coinage Advisory 18 Committee Public Service Award to Dennis Tucker, 19 who is with us today. 20 And that is the In recognition of his loyal and 21 outstanding service, Deputy Director McNally will 22 be presenting this award to Dennis in a few 23 moments. 24 comments. 25 But first, I would like to offer a few One of the great joys of serving on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 13 1 the CCAC is getting to know my colleagues, both 2 on a professional level, of course, but also on a 3 personal level, forming bonds that go well beyond 4 the work we do together on this Committee. 5 In the four years we've served 6 together on the CCAC, Dennis never failed to 7 impress me with his wonderfully crafted reviews 8 of the portfolios and the great care he put into 9 his observations. Dennis is, after all, an 10 award-winning numismatic researcher and writer, 11 and it certainly shows. 12 Since his departure, I dare say that 13 the CCAC has in fact lost some of its eloquence. 14 I am thrilled too that Dennis's family is able to 15 join us today -- his husband Alex and a daughter 16 Ava, since he often talked about them with a 17 great deal of joy and pride. 18 they, in turn, will take pride in the honor that 19 Dennis receives this morning, for the 20 contributions he had made to our nation's coinage 21 during his time on the CCAC, in addition to the 22 camaraderie and friendship he brought to us all 23 on this committee. 24 25 And I'm sure that So, Dennis, I do want to thank you personally for all you've done for the CCAC, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 14 1 2 3 4 and just say your presence has truly been missed. And now, I will turn this over to Deputy Director McNally. DEPUTY DIRECTOR MCNALLY: 5 morning, everyone. 6 also, to include Iggy the Iguana. 7 might have been left off. 8 We see you there. 9 Okay. Okay. And welcome to Dennis' family I think he But Iggy, we see you. And the director really is sad 10 she can't be here today and she sends her 11 congratulations on your work. 12 Good Appointed to the CCAC in February 13 2016, Dennis Tucker served as a Member Specially 14 Qualified in Numismatics, until April of 2024. 15 He is a renowned researcher that has 16 written and lectured nationwide on coins, medals, 17 and other antiques and collectibles. 18 He became a collector at the age of 19 seven, and is a lifelong member of the American 20 Numismatic Association. 21 Dennis is the author of American Gold 22 and Silver, U.S. Mint Collector in Investor Coins 23 and Medals, Bicentennial To-Date, the Standard 24 Reference on American Arts and Gold Medallions, 25 American Buffalo Gold Coins, First Spouse Gold www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 15 1 Coins, America the Beautiful Silver Coins, and 2 related U.S. bullion coins and medals. 3 As a member of the CCAC, Dennis was 4 extremely committed to the work of the Committee. 5 Mr. Tucker's last meeting was in April of 2024, 6 and today we're honoring him for his service to 7 the CCAC, the Mint, the Department of the 8 Treasury, by presenting him with the Citizens 9 Coinage Advisory Committee Public Service Award. 10 The Citizens Coinage Advisory 11 Committee Public Service Award recognizes the 12 contributions of a member of the CCAC who 13 honorably served the public's interest by 14 advising the Secretary of the Treasury on theme 15 and design proposals relating to the circulating 16 coinage, bullion coinage, numismatic coinage, 17 congressional gold medals, and national medals 18 produced by the United States Mint. 19 The award contains a framed 20 certificate and two bronze medals 21 Alexander Hamilton Secretary's medal, and a 22 three-inch bronze or silver medal, reviewed by 23 the CCAC, typically during the member's service. 24 Mr. Tucker asked to have the Philippino Veterans 25 of World War II bronze medal. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 a three-inch Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 16 1 Today, I am pleased to present the 2 Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Public 3 Service Award to Dennis Tucker. 4 (Applause.) 5 DEPUTY DIRECTOR MCNALLY: I'll now 6 give you the opportunity to speak. 7 if you want to use the microphone, but here you 8 go if you do. 9 MR. TUCKER: I don't know Thank you, members and 10 directors. 11 2016 -- I'm Dennis Tucker. 12 to the CCAC in 2016, congratulations poured in 13 from friends and colleagues. 14 When I was nominated to the CCAC in When I was nominated And I had to protest. Wait a little 15 bit. 16 term and do a good job, congratulate me then. 17 I haven't done anything yet. If I serve my The most satisfying feedback to my 18 Committee work came in 2020, when I was nominated 19 and appointed to serve a second term. 20 grateful for that affirmation that I was indeed 21 doing valuable work. 22 I was To my friends and colleagues on the 23 Committee, past and present, I say, thank you. 24 Continue forward, as always. 25 To my friends and colleagues within www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 17 1 the Mint, I quote my friend and mentor, Q. David 2 Bowers, onward and upward. 3 help move our nation toward a more perfect union. 4 As a numismatist, serving on the CCAC Your work really does 5 has been an eye-opening and intellectually 6 enriching experience. 7 these past eight years, contributing to work that 8 both reflects and influences American culture and 9 history. 10 It's been a privilege Of course, no act of public service is 11 performed in a vacuum. 12 applying for membership on the CCAC, get your 13 spouse's permission. 14 My best advice if you're The reason is, if you approach this 15 work correctly, it will consume long hours and a 16 lot of energy, and study and research time, 17 attention, travel, meetings. 18 If you do it right, then it also 19 becomes an act of public service and sacrifice 20 from your family. 21 For that reason, I have to thank and 22 credit my very supportive husband, Dr. Alexander 23 Santos. 24 25 Alex is a pediatric ICU physician. His entire career has been devoted to the common www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 18 1 good. And when I engage in public service, it's 2 with him as my inspiration. 3 I also happily thank our smart, 4 creative, and very supportive Daughter, Ava 5 Tucker-Santos. 6 Ava was born in 2016, the year I 7 joined the CCAC. 8 hearing about this Committee and all of you. 9 our work together. 10 So, she's literally grown up And Everyone in this room knows that my 11 favorite job is being her dad, and that she's 12 never far from my thoughts. 13 Circling back to numismatics, the 14 birch copper cent of 1792 has lettering around 15 its edge that reads, to be esteemed, be useful. 16 I am pleased to have been useful to 17 the U.S. Treasury Department and to the United 18 States Mint. 19 beautiful public service award as a symbol of the 20 Mint's esteem. I will always treasure this Thank you. 21 (Applause.) 22 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Dennis, thank you 23 again for your usefulness. And I once again want 24 to say that we certainly do miss you on this 25 Committee. And I'm very happy that you and your www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 19 1 family, Alex and Ava, were able to join us today, 2 as well as Iggy, who, we cannot certainly forget 3 Iggy. 4 All right, before we continue on, I'd 5 like to say a few words. 6 will be reviewing today and tomorrow for the 7 circulating coinage -- oh, actually, we'll wait 8 until that photograph is finished. 9 The portfolios that we Sorry. (Off-mic comments.) 10 MEMBER SCARINCI: Sam, you're not 11 feeling too much pressure, are you? 12 (Laughter.) 13 MEMBER GELBERD: 14 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Be useful. All right. Yes. So, 15 before we continue, I'd like to say a few words. 16 The portfolios we will be reviewing today and 17 tomorrow for the circulating coinage celebrating 18 the 2026 Semiquincentennial with the Declaration 19 of Independence, are in many ways both an 20 engagement with, and a dramatic departure from, 21 the types of designs found on the circulating 22 coinage the Mint has produced over last 23 230 years. 24 25 Public Law 116-330, the Circulating Collectable Coin Redesign Act enabling these www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 20 1 designs, is enticingly vague in some respects, 2 but specific in others, making the 3 conceptualization and representation of who we 4 are as a nation as this historical juncture, on 5 small stamp pieces of metal no less, an 6 exceptionally difficult task. 7 These portfolios are the culmination 8 of nearly three years of diligent, balanced, and 9 careful work on the part of the Mint, in 10 consultation with several commissions, 11 committees, subject matter specialists, and even 12 the general public, all of which has been 13 coordinated by the Mint's Office of Design 14 Management, or ODM. 15 And here, I do want to congratulate 16 not just the Mint's director and the staff on 17 these momentous portfolios, but particularly, the 18 Director of ODM, April Stafford, and her team, 19 for all that they have done to bring them to 20 completion. 21 The portfolios for the dime, quarters, 22 and the half-dollar, as we will hear, were 23 conceived as a unified program representing three 24 acts, from the spark leading to independence, 25 through critical and often grueling inflection www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 21 1 points, culminating with a look to the future. 2 As I reviewed these portfolios, I was 3 struck once again by how seriously hard and messy 4 the last 250 years has at times been for our 5 nation, but also awed, by the fact that we the 6 people have nevertheless managed to keep this 7 Republic and Democratic experiment going for 8 centuries now. 9 This is an outstanding collective 10 achievement. 11 recognize in these portfolios, that there is 12 never a single history of an event, or even of a 13 nation, but rather, many different histories, 14 from different perspectives. 15 And as a historian, I also Some of these portfolios celebrate and 16 elevate perspectives yet to be seen on 17 circulating coins. 18 And that is to be commended. Without question, we are a nation of 19 many differences. 20 centuries ago, and remains true today. 21 This was true two and a half But amazingly, at crucial moments, we 22 have come together and made the necessary turn 23 towards a more perfect union, in the hope that 24 each and every one of us can have a good and 25 decent life, a hope born of that first spark, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 22 1 leading to independence. 2 That hope has yet to be entirely 3 fulfilled, and is something that we all must 4 continually strive for. 5 a good thing and is, from my perspective, what 6 these portfolios largely reflect. 7 But this common goal is With that, we will move on to the 8 first portfolio to be reviewed today. 9 is, the Obverse Candidate Designs for the 2026 10 through 2028 Platinum Proof Coins, which April 11 Stafford and Sukrita Baijal will now present. 12 There will be two. 13 MS. STAFFORD: And that Thank you so much. 14 Some history of the American Eagle Platinum Proof 15 Program. 16 offers that the American Eagle Coin Program 17 offers a range of full silver, platinum, and 18 palladium bullion coins to investors, alongside 19 proof and uncirculated versions. 20 It was established in 1986 and it Of particular distinction are the 21 American Eagle Platinum Proof Coins, introduced 22 in 1997, and bearing the highest denomination of 23 $100 for any U.S. legal tender coin, and printed 24 with the W mark of the mint at West Point. 25 coins are struck on one ounce of 99.95 percent www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 These Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 23 1 premium platinum. 2 A hallmark of this program's rich 3 history has been to thematically tie individual 4 coins together to form multi-year series that 5 share a common obverse or reverse across all 6 designs. 7 The current series, First Amendment to 8 the United States Constitution, launched in 2021, 9 and will continue through 2025. 10 Since 2018, a common reverse design 11 has united the coins, featuring an eagle in 12 flight carrying an olive branch, along with the 13 inscriptions, United States of America, $100, 14 once ounce, and .9995 platinum. 15 The obverse includes the inscriptions, 16 Liberty, E. Pluribus Unum, and the year of 17 minting more issuance, as well as, In God We 18 Trust. 19 So, the next series is for 2026 20 through 2028, and is it the Charters of Freedom 21 Series. 22 Launching in 2026 to coincide with the 23 nation's semiquincentennial, the United States 24 Mint will produce the Charters of Freedom 25 Platinum Proof Coin Series. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 24 1 This series is inspired by the 2 National Archive Museum's Rotunda for the 3 Charters of Freedom, where these treasures are 4 housed, will consist of three Platinum Proof 5 coins produced over three years, each dedicated 6 to one of the three essential documents to the 7 founding of the United States -- the Declaration 8 of Independence, the U.S. Constitution, and the 9 Bill of Rights. 10 This series will honor the core 11 principles of the nation as mapped out in these 12 charters, and inspire a deeper understanding and 13 appreciation for the documents that have guided 14 the U.S. through our 250 years of history. 15 These documents collectively define 16 and refine a vision for the nation. 17 the consent of the governed to form a more 18 perfect union and champion individual liberties 19 to reaffirm the commitment to democratic ideals. 20 One based on Eight artists submitted candidate 21 designs for the 2026 Platinum Proof Coin honoring 22 the Declaration of Independence. 23 reviewed by the Citizens Coinage Advisory 24 Committee and the U.S. Commission of Fine Art in 25 July 2024. And these were www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 25 1 Based on that feedback, three artists 2 were invited to revise their 2026 designs, and 3 develop candidate designs for the second and 4 third installment of the series. 5 Each artist is previewing their 6 Charters of Freedom three-year set based on CCAC 7 and CFA recommendations. 8 forward. 9 One set will move Designs in this portfolio are also 10 featured in the Declaration of Independence 11 quarter and the U.S. Constitution quarter 12 portfolio. 13 So, we will start with set one. This 14 set employs the symbolism of nature to chronicle 15 America's journey through its founding documents. 16 Through a carefully crafted 17 progression of environmental motifs, it traces 18 the transformational impact of each charter, 19 together illustrating a living embodiment of our 20 American democracy. 21 Note that set one offers a variation 22 for its Declaration of Independence coin, seen as 23 follows. 24 25 We'll go to the first design. So, the Declaration of Independence design 1 and 1A depict sun rays beginning to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 26 1 emerge through storm clouds, representing the 2 dawn of a new nation arising from the turmoil of 3 revolution, as well as the enlightenment ideas 4 that influence the Declaration of Independence. 5 A quill, symbolizing the declaration's 6 sweeps over the landscape, marking the nation's 7 founding and the power of revolutionary ideas to 8 catalyze change. 9 The additional inscription is 10 Declaration of Independence design 1, 11 incorporates the date range -- 1776 through 2026 12 in the border, while design 1A features thirteen 13 stars, representing the original colonies, in the 14 border. 15 Moving on to the U.S. Constitution 16 design for set one, this design shows the storm 17 clouds receding and the sunlight growing 18 stronger, marking the nation's transition to 19 self-governance. 20 In place of the quill, a young tree 21 has taken root, representing the Constitution as 22 a living framework in this American landscape. 23 Its form echoes the shape of the quill, a visual 24 reminder that this new system of government is 25 informed by, and built upon, the values and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 27 1 ideals set forth in the Declaration of 2 Independence, thirteen stars representing the 3 colonies' frame the scene. 4 inspection is U.S. Constitution. 5 The additional And for the Bill of Rights design in 6 set one, this design reveals now a maturing tree, 7 its canopy offering shelter and protection. 8 powerful metaphor for the rights and freedoms 9 guaranteed to citizens in the Bill of Rights. 10 A Beneath it, a child gazes forward, 11 representing the people whose rights are 12 safeguarded now, and the protection provided to 13 future generations. 14 The scene is now fully illuminated by 15 sunlight, suggesting the powerful influence of 16 these founding documents on our nation, thirteen 17 stars representing the colonies, encircle the 18 design with the additional inscription, Bill of 19 Rights. 20 Moving on to set two. This set places 21 the Charters of Freedom at the center of vivid 22 allegorical scenes that tell the story of our 23 nation's founding documents. 24 25 By weaving the physical documents into rich, symbolic imagery, these designs convey the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 28 1 profound ideas, enduring values, and essential 2 roles our founding documents have played in 3 shaping our democracy and inspiring Americans 4 throughout our 250 years. 5 Note again that set two offers a 6 variation for its Declaration of Independence 7 coin, seen here. 8 designs for set two, we have design 1 and 1A, 9 these portray the drafting of the Declaration of 10 The Declaration of Independence Independence. 11 The document and thirteen stars, 12 connoting the original colonies, ascend upwards 13 to accent the spark of enlightenment. 14 The collection of stars also evokes 15 fireworks on the fourth of July. 16 arm rests upon an ornate desk carved with an 17 ocean motif reflecting the journey from British 18 rule to independence. 19 liberty highlights American ideals. 20 The writer's The carved torch of Design 1A depicts the spark of 21 enlightenment highlighting the writer's quill, 22 emphasizing that revolutionary ideas contained 23 within the document were born, debated, and 24 articulated by individuals who choose to take 25 action. The additional inscription is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 29 1 Declaration of Independence. 2 For the Constitution design for set 3 two, this design illustrates the crafting of the 4 United States Constitution, an allegorical 5 depiction of nation-building. 6 through the dissipating clouds, as construction 7 workers labor together erecting the framework of 8 the U.S. Constitution. 9 Sunlight breaks The document is positioned 10 prominently, forming the structure's main feature 11 and providing protection to the systems of 12 government that will be housed within. 13 additional inscription is U.S. Constitution. 14 The And the Bill of Rights design for set 15 two, seen here, shows the Bill of Rights as a 16 safeguard to Americans' fundamental rights, 17 including the freedom of religion, speech, press, 18 assembly, and due process of law. 19 The document curls itself above a 20 sapling, offering protection from the storm 21 overhead. 22 grows, representing both the young nation and the 23 flourishing of Americans' essential freedoms 24 under this charter. 25 is Bill of Rights. Beneath this shelter the sapling The additional inscription www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 30 1 And finally, set three. This set 2 employs the consistent imagery and symbolism of a 3 quill and parchment to amplify the key concepts 4 enshrined in the Charters of Freedom, showcasing 5 the transformative power of the written word in 6 founding our democracy. 7 Through carefully chosen phrases and 8 hand-drawn lettering, this series boldly brings 9 focus to the core meaning of each founding 10 document. 11 For the Declaration design for set 12 three, this design captures the discovery that 13 Thomas Jefferson struck the word subjects from a 14 draft of the Declaration of Independence, and 15 replaced it with citizens. 16 This represents a monumental shift in 17 the identity of America, no longer subjects of 18 any nation, but citizens of an emerging 19 democratic republic. 20 The additional inscriptions are, from 21 Subjects to Citizens, and, Declaration of 22 Independence. 23 The Constitution design for set three 24 spotlights the iconic phrase, We, the People, 25 from the preamble of the United States www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 31 1 Constitution. 2 Dominating the field, it proclaims the 3 American people coming together under a 4 representative government grounded in the consent 5 of the governed. 6 U.S. Constitution. 7 The additional inscription is And finally, the Bill of Rights design 8 for set three asserts the essential individual 9 protections provided to the people by the Bill of 10 Rights. 11 The quill connects with the words, Our 12 Rights Protected, forming a continuous line to 13 represent the ongoing protections of our civil 14 liberties provided to us by this founding 15 document. 16 Rights. 17 The additional inscription is Bill of That concludes the Candidate Designs. 18 And I would just like to remind you, Mr. Chair, 19 that we have Richard Hunt and/or Lee Ann Potter 20 joining us, if you have any questions, or would 21 like to get their input on the portfolio. 22 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right. Thank 23 you very much. At this point also, I would like 24 to note that we are reviewing this morning, the 25 Platinum Proof Series Candidate Designs, in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 32 1 addition to the two quarters, one dealing with 2 the Declaration of Independence, and the other, 3 number two, dealing with the Constitution, 4 because of the obvious overlap, the subject 5 matter between the Platinum Proof Series and 6 these two quarters. 7 In fact, some of the obverse candidate 8 designs in the Platinum Proof Series, also appear 9 as reverse candidate designs in the two quarter 10 11 series. So, we will be looking at these all 12 together, essentially, this morning, and having a 13 discussion, once we have voted on all of this 14 early this afternoon, after lunch. 15 At this point, I would like to ask if 16 there are any technical or legal questions from 17 the Committee about this program or the designs 18 for the 2026 through 2028 Platinum Proof Coins, 19 before we begin a general discussion. 20 MEMBER SAUNDERS: John? John Saunders here. 21 Just want to verify that you are looking for us 22 to pick one series of three related coins, and 23 not pick and choose from the different designs. 24 25 MS. STAFFORD: Yes, sir. Although the CCAC is able to make whatever recommendations you www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 33 1 deem fit, the concept was to have these designs 2 conceived and created by a same hand, to ensure 3 that the style, as well as the messaging, works 4 across the series. 5 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: April, I do have a 6 question. The fact that there are designs for 7 obverses that appear on the Platinum Proof, as 8 well as similar designs that appear as reverse 9 candidate designs for the quarters, would there 10 be an exclusivity if the Committee were, for 11 example, to choose a similar design, both for the 12 Platinum Proof and for the quarter? 13 be a problem with that? 14 to -- 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 MS. STAFFORD: aware of. Would there Or would it be possible No. None that I'm Greg? MR. WEINMAN: No. And keeping in mind, this is a recommendation. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: A recommendation. That's correct. MR. WEINMAN: And so, we're going to take whole scripture of what your thoughts are. MS. STAFFORD: We have had those 24 discussions in the past, that there might be 25 value to having a circulating coin and a highly www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 34 1 collectible precious-metal coin. 2 imagery there to be some kind of connection 3 there. 4 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: There's similar Thank you very much. 5 Any other comments or questions, before we begin 6 our discussion? 7 All right. So, let's begin. And I 8 would like to remind members to please try to 9 keep your comments to five minutes or less, and 10 to identify yourself for the record before you 11 speak. 12 begin, please. And Jeanne Stevens-Sollman, if you would 13 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Okay. 14 Jane Stevens-Sollman. 15 congratulate the committee and the staff for 16 putting together this incredible portfolio, 17 which, for me, is very overwhelming. 18 I'm And I'm going to I have had to live with these designs 19 for a while, to understand what we're doing and 20 where we're going. 21 And I don't know if I should speak to 22 all of them or not. Some of them obviously I 23 like better than others, but I think that number 24 three, series number three, relates very well to 25 each other. I think this was a very strong and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 35 1 2 positive series. However, I liked all of them. Not 3 equally, but all of them. 4 towards this, except I think that there's a lot 5 of beauty in the series of number one. 6 back to series one. 7 Yes. So, I'm leaning We can go Okay. The Declaration of Independence I 8 think is pretty powerful. But it is lacking in 9 the Constitution and the Bill of Rights where the 10 sun has these little rays coming out. 11 think that that falls short of what is presented 12 in the Declaration of Independence. 13 And I So, I would certainly support this 14 series if the sun were similar to the sun that we 15 have in the Declaration of Independence. 16 don't know if it's too late to make that 17 preference or not. 18 Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 19 20 21 And I But that's all I have to say. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Sam Gelberd, if you would, please. MEMBER GELBERD: Thank you, Peter. 22 This is Sam Gelberd. 23 hope I can be as esteemed as Dennis Tucker was, 24 as useful as I can. 25 And to the Committee, just With that being said, I actually do www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 36 1 prefer the designs in set two. 2 they're great allegories for the entire series. 3 Overall, I think For our platinum coinage, I think 4 it'll be a nice continuance moving on in the 5 program. 6 For the first coin, for the 7 Declaration, I do prefer a coin design 01A. 8 concerned that there may be some confusion. 9 People might say, well, there's only twelve 10 stars, not realizing the sun is a star, of 11 course. 12 I'm So, I do kind of like that we have the 13 thirteen stars displayed in that manner. 14 really, great way of conveying the drafting of a 15 new beginning for our nation. 16 Really, And that being said, with the 17 Constitution design, great imagery, with the sun 18 rising and seeing laborers working on the new 19 nation, and of course, continuing with the Bill 20 of Rights design, obverse, be either one. 21 I think it does a nice job of 22 conveying the metaphor of protection for a 23 fledgling nation a little bit better than the 24 same coin in set one. 25 So, that is the set that I would go www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 37 1 with. And that's all I wanted to add. 2 you, Peter. 3 4 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank Thank you, Sam. Mike Moran, if you would, please. 5 MEMBER MORAN: Thank you, Peter. This 6 is Mike Moran. I'm going to go the opposite 7 direction from Sam, even though he's sitting next 8 to me here. 9 for the simple reason that the -- well, it's a I like number three. And I like it 10 unifying element, design element across all 11 three. 12 it's not difficult to understand whatsoever. 13 look at it and you understand immediately where 14 they're coming from. It's very simple, very straightforward, 15 You I feel like that number two's too busy 16 to suit me. Number one is okay. I particularly 17 like 1A, the one for the Declaration of 18 Independence. 19 quarter. That's one of my charges for the 20 But I agree that there's not a unity 21 of design across the three of them that I see in 22 number three. 23 three. 24 25 So, I'll be voting for number CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Mike. Art Bernstein, if you would, please. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 38 1 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: 2 is Arthur Bernstein. 3 to be uniformly beautiful. 4 inspiring. 5 Good morning. This I find all of these designs They're just And so, the job was a little harder. If we look at series two, I'm going to 6 add to something Mike said, and which is, I find 7 it just to be a little too busy, particularly the 8 Constitution design with all that construction, 9 people moving around the base of the coin. 10 And for the Bill of Rights coin, I'm 11 sorry, but those raindrops to me just look like 12 missile heads. 13 appeared to be raindrops. 14 And I just didn't think it I lean towards series one, with a 15 preference for the Declaration design that has 16 the stars, the 1-A. 17 consistency of the stars on all three coins. 18 The beauty of that evolving quill I 19 found to be moving. 20 is for series one. 21 you very much, Art. 23 continue, please. 25 And that's why my preference CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 22 24 I'd like to see the Thank Dr. Christopher Capozzola, MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: is Chris Capozzola. All right. All right. This I think we are struggling www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 39 1 with having too many moving parts in this and 2 knowing that the circulating coin is also on 3 their mind as we're doing this. 4 to me, I think I'll go sort of in ascending 5 order, that I felt that set number two does not 6 really succeed because I think, not so much 7 because it's busy -- because I think in this 8 format, that would be legible to people -- but 9 because thematically, I'm not sure that the 10 But I would say, metaphor's coherent. 11 There's construction in one place, 12 there's cultivation in another. 13 not quite -- it's trying to communicate too many 14 things. 15 And I think it's Set three I think is fantastic and 16 rich, really coherent over the set of it. 17 only struggle with this is I really, really love 18 sort of 3-C-01 as a possible quarter for the 19 circulating. 20 think about later. 21 And my And so, that's something for us to The only thing I would say on set 22 three, I do think there is some work or attention 23 to be paid to the font of the cursive, and both 24 in the declaration, where it says, from subjects 25 to, and then in the Bill of Rights where it says, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 40 1 from subject to, and then, in the Bill of Rights 2 where it says, Our Rights Protected. 3 I would like to see the font of that 4 cursive to more closely approximate historic font 5 of, We the People, which is, of course, 6 immediately recognizable to Americans all around 7 the world. 8 9 Set one has a natural coherence to it and is very clear and legible. I had less 10 problems with this one than maybe other members 11 of the Committee. 12 and easy, and very safe. 13 This is sort of, like, good My only suggestion here, I found 14 1-D-01A more compelling, because then you end up 15 with a date in the bottom right coherently across 16 all three, 26, 27, 28. 17 comments. 18 19 And those are all my Thank you. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Annelisa Purdie, if you would, please. 20 MEMBER PURDIE: Good morning, 21 everyone. This is Annelisa Purdie. I'm going to 22 keep my comments very brief. 23 favorite design set was also number three. 24 think the continuity works really well. 25 the font, it's giving Schoolhouse Rock memories, Overall, my www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I I love Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 41 1 which is always wonderful. 2 But it's also a great conversation 3 piece. I think what these two talk about are 4 foundation documents and how the relate to who we 5 are as a nation. 6 that they're beautifully rendered. 7 For set number two, I think But I also think they're a little on 8 the nose, in terms of the metaphors. 9 lot going on. 10 There are a I'm also concerned especially for 11 02-B-01, about that parchment withering away with 12 the rain. 13 I understand the message, but there is 14 a lot of things going on with them. 15 beautifully rendered. 16 2-D-01A with the waves on the desk, which is 17 something I noticed when I first looked at this 18 portfolio. 19 But they're I love the design on For set number one, I think the arch 20 component is beautiful in the transition from the 21 quill to the sapling to the tree. 22 with this one is that the sun doesn't seem to be 23 consistent across the portfolio designs. My only caveat 24 In the first design, it's beautiful 25 with the rays coming through the clouds and the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 42 1 shadows. For the U.S. Constitution and Bill of 2 Rights coins, the way that the rays are rendered 3 doesn't quite match the first one, so it loses 4 some of that effect. 5 But overall, I think this beam of that 6 arch is beautiful and circling, especially for 7 the last one with the Bill of Rights one. 8 like that beam. 9 But I I like the idea. Also curious about this model of tree. 10 I like the idea that it's swaying but not 11 breaking, which can also be a metaphor for our 12 nation. And that's it for me. Thank you. 13 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Donald Scarinci. 14 MEMBER SCARINCI: Thanks. I agree 15 with much of what's been said so far. 16 is a great portfolio. 17 be commended for their work on this portfolio. 18 Every single one of the gets a merit, as far as 19 I'm concerned. 20 The artists really should Having said that, I did something 21 interesting. 22 series. 23 which would go best in the series. 24 always look at the series. 25 And this I have the series. I got the whole I pulled it out to study them and to see Because I Set number one, what I really love www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 43 1 about set number one, and unless I get persuaded 2 otherwise by what someone else says, set number 3 one is the perfect sequel to what we just did 4 with the four freedoms. 5 If you remember, the last four years 6 we had trees and used trees, which they were just 7 stunning coins. 8 emotionally. 9 I mean, they move you Right? And that, in my mind, makes it art. 10 Right? 11 one is the perfect sequel to that. 12 of reasons. 13 If it moves you. And I think set number And for a lot Set number two, people are saying, 14 well, it's too busy, it's trying to 15 communicate -- or someone else said it's trying 16 to communicate too many things. 17 And I think that is the case. I think 18 in the attempt to communicate a message with so 19 many little tableaus -- they're not tableaus, but 20 I'll call them tableaus -- within the coin, we 21 lose the emotional impact. 22 And maybe these coins would be better 23 as coins that are more commonly collected. 24 series is not commonly collected. 25 expensive series. It's an Right? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 This Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 44 1 So, perhaps this might be better 2 served in a different portfolio, because I think 3 the message is muddled, I'll call it. 4 And kind of deflects from the emotional impact 5 that set one has. 6 Right? Set three really punches you in the 7 face with words. Right? And I'll you an 8 interesting story, if I don't run out of time. 9 I'll tell you an interesting story 10 about the We The People. 11 happened in 1787 is, after everybody left -- 12 because they did the Great Compromise -- a 13 committee on unresolved issues was formed. 14 Right? Because what And twenty percent of the Constitution 15 was drafted by that committee. 16 David Brearly, my person from New Jersey, the 17 signer from New Jersey, chaired that committee. 18 Right? Which After the convention concluded on 19 everything that was going to be in the document, 20 it had to then go to another committee, which was 21 a committee to draft the final version of the 22 Constitution. 23 During that committee, Governor 24 Morris, who chaired that committee, changed the 25 word, states, to the word, people. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 45 1 And that shift of word -- from state 2 to people -- shifted sovereignty. 3 in sovereignty is ultimately what allowed Abraham 4 Lincoln to prevent secession. 5 So, I think that's just an interesting 6 side story. 7 But it's cool. 8 9 And the shift I don't know why I told you that. And I just think these designs -- I don't want to use the word simplistic. These 10 designs, the words here hit you in the face. 11 Again, this would be maybe much better in a more 12 commonly collected series. 13 But I think when we're doing this 14 series, in my mind the best fit for the overall 15 set, especially on the heels of four freedoms, is 16 set number one. 17 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you very much 18 and thank you for your informative digression. 19 John Saunders, if you would, please. 20 MEMBER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Peter. 21 John Saunders here. 22 example set earlier and do this in ascending 23 order. 24 25 I'm going to follow the Set two is the one I like the least. I liked set two, the first design, a lot. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 That Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 46 1 appealed to me a lot. The second one was okay. 2 I liked the image of building things, construc- 3 4 tion, though I agree that it's kind of busy. 5 I didn't like the third one. Part of 6 it was because the freestyle, I believe, or the 7 sapling, it looks like a bean sprout to me, 8 number one, rather than a tree sapling. 9 And just the overall appearance did 10 not appeal to me. 11 comments -- the raindrops are missiles coming 12 in -- may explain it. 13 to me, the overall appearances. 14 I mean, a couple of But it just did not appeal The third set I like a lot. I could 15 be completely happy with this one. 16 think these documents are about words. 17 fact that the words hit you first doesn't bother 18 me at all. 19 design. 20 Unlike Don, I And the And I think they're a fantastic My favorite was the first series. 21 Even more so after what Don mentioned, that the 22 trees on the earlier series, the platinum things 23 that ties in. 24 25 I just like the design. I think in terms of the sun, we could, following what Jeanne www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 47 1 said, to make them consistent, we could add a 2 couple of rays going up for the first design, 3 rather than taking the rays away from the other 4 two. 5 The other comment I have is, I didn't 6 get that the middle design was a sapling. 7 mean, it looks to me like the same tree as in the 8 third design after a windstorm. 9 I And I don't know if there's any way we 10 can make it look more clearly look like a 11 sapling. 12 I think it's okay if it doesn't, but 13 to get the symbolism, again, I know they weren't 14 the same size as the others, so maybe it's 15 impossible to make it look more like a sapling. 16 But to me, it looks like a tree after the 17 windstorm. 18 With that slightly negative comment, 19 I like the set very well. 20 with one or three. 21 one. And I could be happy I think my preference is with 22 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 23 MEMBER HOARD: Kellen Hoard. Thank you. This is 24 Kellen Hoard and it's good to see you all. 25 sorry I can't be there at this time. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I'm It would Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 48 1 have been nice to be there though. 2 I didn't have to do sixteen hours on a plane 3 round trip. 4 And I'm glad That would have been much worse. For me, I'll keep this pretty short 5 because you're going to hear my voice a lot more 6 than you want to later on some of the other 7 designs. 8 9 10 11 So, for this one, I was really drawn to set three. I thought that was really the way that we ought to go. And the reason why is actually, I did 12 enjoy series one. 13 I'd actually like to see in later series, that we 14 consider this concept, again on set one, of one 15 design only kind of evolving for this series. 16 I thought it was interesting. But actually, I was drawn to set three 17 for the opposite reason as Donald. Which is that 18 it doesn't fit in with the rest of the series. 19 It's actually really kind of unique and involved 20 and issued in a way that we haven't seen before. 21 We just got off a series of doing the 22 First Amendment, which, to me, actually has quite 23 a bit of overlap with this one, right? 24 that's Bill of Rights overlapping. 25 Because And I actually want to see something www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 49 1 different. 2 featuring trees and nature. 3 see something totally different than that, 4 because we're kind of having the overlap again. 5 And at this point, it really does it quite 6 excellently. 7 design. 8 9 10 We had a Bill of Rights series I'd like to actually I think it's a bold, exciting So, I will be quiet from there and you'll hear much more from me later. So, thanks so much. 11 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Kellen. 12 Thank you also for your warning about your voice 13 later on. 14 For my own comments, I also have a 15 very strong preference for number three. 16 that this set is very cohesive, that there's a 17 boldness and strength. 18 letters as well. 19 I find And I also quite like the I share some of the concerns with the 20 others about number two being a little too busy, 21 and some of the mixed metaphors. 22 And with set number one, I think that 23 this could do. There also is a cohesiveness 24 here. 25 elements, such as the child's Bill of Rights But I'm not as fond of some of the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 50 1 obverse, and also share with Jeanne some of the 2 concerns with the position of the sun. 3 With that, I will ask if there are any 4 additional questions, or even motions, from the 5 Committee at this time? 6 we will have further discussion and further 7 motions, and will be making a recommendation on 8 this set, as well as other material, tomorrow. 9 But at this stage, if there are any questions or 10 Now, keep in mind that motions? 11 MS. STAFFORD: Chairman? I would just 12 share that, of course, as I stated earlier, we 13 are looking for a recommendation to move one set 14 forward. 15 third installments that are out here, we have the 16 ability to refine and potentially then bring back 17 to the Committee for consideration, on any of 18 those steps that, if there's still something 19 that's not quite what it needs to be, we can do 20 that without any issue. 21 But because we have the second and CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you very much, 22 April. 23 asking in this meeting for a recommendation for 24 the Declaration of Independence for 2026. 25 So, just for clarification, you are MS. STAFFORD: Yes. And like any of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 51 1 our recommendations we receive from the 2 committees, if that recommendation should also 3 have revisions or suggestions, obviously, those 4 can be effected as well. 5 bring light to the fact that this is a three-year 6 series, and 2027, 2028, we have more time in our 7 development schedule for it. 8 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 9 10 11 you very much, April. I was just trying to All right. Thank John, I believe your hand was raised. MEMBER SAUNDERS: Yes, John Saunders. 12 I'm not quite sure what our procedure is here. 13 would suggest if we're going to do a scoring of 14 it, even if we delay the final selection to 15 tomorrow, we score today stretching our mind. 16 And again, I'm not sure why we don't 17 just conclude the platinum today. 18 that maybe there's some cross-designs. 19 so, I would make motion that we conclude the 20 platinum today. 21 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: I understand But even We could do that. 22 What I would suggest, since we are going to be 23 reviewing the quarters in addition, and then 24 scoring the quarters, and then having a 25 discussion about the Platinum Proof and the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 52 1 quarters this afternoon following lunch, that we 2 could at that time entertain a motion to 3 conclude, and make a recommendation on the 4 Platinum Proof this afternoon. 5 MEMBER SAUNDERS: That'd be fine. 6 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay. 7 Donald, you had a -- 8 9 All right. MEMBER SCARINCI: April said that. 10 Yeah, I'm so happy I kind of felt she would. So, the last thing in set 01. If we 11 decide to go with set 01, which, by the way, I 12 agree with whoever said we should do 01A so that 13 the stars are compatible. 14 correct. That's absolutely 15 But the third coin, the 2028 coin, I 16 am a little concerned that the sitting figure -- 17 I'm concerned about the tree design as well. 18 also that the sitting figure is really 19 reminiscent of the 2017 coin -- Boys Town 20 coin -- that Emily Damstra did. 21 But And that beautiful coin, which is a 22 work of art, with the reverse of the seated 23 figure, almost exactly similar to this seated 24 figure, in terms of the position of the arms and 25 the legs, and leaning up against the tree. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 53 1 So, I am concerned about the 2 similarity of this one with the Boys Town coin in 3 that one design element. 4 shouldn't be concerned about that. 5 so, I think if we could delay the -- yeah, that's 6 great. 7 like in the opposite direction. 8 9 That's the coin. And I probably But anyway, So, it's almost kind of But that's just a beautiful coin. But in any event, I am a little concerned about that, 10 so if we did have the time, since it's a 2028 11 coin, maybe we can see some different versions or 12 variations of that particular one. 13 And if people decide to go along with 14 that, we can always deal with that by motion, 15 presume. I Right? 16 (Off-mic comments.) 17 MEMBER SCARINCI: Or they can just get 18 it out of the way. 19 to the story that I told, the Confederate 20 Constitution replaced the word, people, with the 21 word, states. 22 Oh, and by the way, a sequel And it was a very similar 23 constitution, Confederate Constitution, except 24 they put people back. 25 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: I would also like to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 54 1 ask if our subject matter experts -- Richard Hunt 2 or Lee Ann Potter, who are with us, have any 3 comments that they would like to make at this 4 point? 5 MS. STAFFORD: Mr. Hunt's on. 6 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Mr. Hunt, if you 7 have any comments you'd like to make at this 8 point, you're certainly welcome to. 9 MR. HUNT: I'd just like to thank you 10 for inviting me to this meeting. 11 informative. 12 spent two to three years talking about the 13 essence of the Declaration and the Constitution 14 and the Bill of Rights. 15 are very cognizant of that. 16 It's really And I'm particularly happy we've And I see that you folks And the evaluation and the criteria 17 that you're bringing to this discussion reflects 18 well on those founding documents. 19 And since I'm from the National 20 Archives and they hold those documents, I find 21 that particularly edifying. 22 much. 23 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: So, thank you so Thank you, Mr. Hunt. 24 I also ask that others from the Mint, such as Joe 25 Menna or Mike Costello, if you have any comments www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 55 1 at this time on this program? 2 MR. MENNA: 3 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 4 MR. COSTELLO: This is Mike Costello, 5 This is Joe Menna. No. All right. no questions. 6 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right. Thank 7 you very much. All right, if there's no further 8 discussion, and hearing none, the Committee will 9 now score the 2026 through 2028 Candidate Designs 10 for Platinum Proof Coins. 11 their score sheets in front of you. 12 Everyone should have And any remote member -- that's you, 13 Kellen -- should have received them 14 electronically. 15 the score sheets to CCAC counsel Greg Weiman, and 16 we will take a five-minute break to allow the 17 members to score. 18 present the result after lunch, not after this 19 break. 20 When you are done, please return And Greg will, as I mentioned, (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 21 went off the record at 10:03 a.m. and resumed at 22 10:11 a.m.) 23 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: And as I mentioned 24 earlier, we will be reviewing the scores from the 25 Platinum Proof series after lunch, along with the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 56 1 scores from quarter number one, which we'll be 2 reviewing momentarily, and quarter number two, 3 the Constitution, a little bit later this 4 morning. 5 So the next portfolio for 6 consideration is the obverse and reverse 7 candidate designs for the 2026 quarter number 8 one, Declaration of Independence, which April 9 Stafford and Russ Evans will now present. 10 11 So April, all yours. MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. The five 12 2026 quarter obverses will either depict new 13 images of liberty or historic Americans 14 significant to the coin's themes. 15 The reverse sides of the five quarter 16 dollars will highlight inflection points across 17 our 250 years when our founding principles were 18 asserted and then reaffirmed to collectively move 19 us forward as a nation. 20 quarters are the Declaration of Independence, the 21 US Constitution, abolitionism, suffrage, and 22 civil rights. 23 The themes for the five So some background on the Declaration 24 of Independence quarter. On July 2, 1776, the 25 Second Continental Congress voted to declare www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 57 1 independence from Great Britain. 2 Two days later, the Congress approved 3 the language of the Declaration of Independence, 4 which described the extraordinary circumstances 5 that justified the revolt against the monarchy 6 and the intention to institute a government that 7 would guarantee and uphold the liberties and 8 rights of its people. 9 The Declaration also included a 10 preamble that defined the fundamental principles 11 of the new nation, a truly revolutionary act in 12 its own time, embodying the ideas of the age of 13 reason and enlightenment. 14 We hold these truths to be 15 self-evident, Thomas Jefferson and his fellow 16 drafters proclaimed and launched ideas that shook 17 the foundation of the 18th century established 18 order. 19 All men are created equal, they 20 declared, endowed by their creator with certain 21 unalienable rights that among these are life, 22 liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That to 23 secure these rights, governments are instituted 24 among men, deriving their just powers from the 25 consent of the governed. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 58 1 As an inflection point in our nation's 2 250-year history, the Declaration of Independence 3 is America's first and boldest expression of the 4 values and aspirations that define our national 5 identity. 6 Obverse designs feature personified 7 liberty. 8 the Declaration of Independence through Liberty's 9 garb or symbolic elements, while others are more 10 Some depictions reference the theme of generalized representations. 11 Inscriptions include e pluribus unum, 12 in God we trust, in 1776 through 2026. 13 commemorate the Declaration of Independence as an 14 expression of the principles on which our 15 government and our identity as Americans are 16 based. 17 Reverses Inscriptions include Liberty, United 18 States of America, and Quarter Dollar or 25 19 Cents. 20 inscription Declaration of Independence to 21 definitively identify the coin as commemorating 22 this inflection point. Artists were also asked to include the 23 So we will start with the obverses. 24 Obverse 1 and 1A portray Liberty as a sculptor, 25 molding and shaping herself, displaying her power www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 59 1 to determine the form she takes. 2 Just as the Declaration of 3 Independence asserted Americans' right to carve 4 out a government that derived its power from the 5 consent of the governed, distinguishing itself 6 from eighteenth-century nations that based 7 sovereignty on the divine right of kings. 8 is 1 and 1A. 9 This The difference is simply the hairstyle. 10 Obverse 2 depicts Liberty, cradling a spark of 11 enlightenment, representing the ideals and 12 principles embedded in the Declaration of 13 Independence. 14 of oak, our country's national tree. 15 In her hair, Liberty wears leaves Obverse 3 features Liberty carving one 16 of the conceptual pillars of the Declaration of 17 Independence, the idea that all men are created 18 equal. 19 Obverse 4 depicts Liberty deep in 20 thought, poised with a quill she considers the 21 inalienable rights and truths expressed in the 22 Declaration of Independence. 23 Obverses 5, 5A, 6, and 6A all depict 24 Liberty holding the Declaration of Independence 25 and sounding a horn similar to those used during www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 60 1 the Revolutionary War. 2 She boldly declares our nation's new 3 independence, sending out a powerful sound that 4 draws the attention of the world. 5 designs, reverse 1 depicts a young oak seedling 6 sprouting from an acorn, representing the birth 7 of our nation. 8 For reverse The inscription Declaration of 9 Independence forms part of the roots while the 10 rising sun inscribed with liberty provides the 11 source required for the seedling to sprout and 12 grow. 13 Reverse 2 features an acorn resting on 14 the fertile soil of liberty, representing the 15 Declaration of Independence as the seed that 16 inspired the growth of a new nation. 17 and 3A depict Independence Hall in Philadelphia, 18 where the Declaration of Independence was created 19 and signed in 1776. 20 powerful principles espoused in this founding 21 document. 22 Reverses 3 Both designs feature Design 3 includes the additional 23 inscription, we hold these truths to be 24 self-evident, while reverse 3a includes life, 25 liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Reverses Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 61 1 4 and 4A depict clasped arms surrounded by the 2 phrase created equal. 3 laurel winding around the arms. 4 Design 4 also features Reverse 5 employs the symbolism of 5 nature to chronicle America's journey through its 6 founding documents. 7 beginning to emerge through storm clouds, 8 representing the dawn of a new nation arising 9 from the turmoil of revolution as well as the The design depicts sun rays 10 Enlightenment ideals that influenced the 11 Declaration. 12 A quill symbolizing the document 13 sweeps powerfully over the landscape, marking the 14 nation's founding and the power of revolutionary 15 ideas to catalyze change. Reverses 6 and 6A 16 portray the drafting of the Declaration of 17 Independence. 18 The document and 13 stars connoting 19 the original colonies ascend upwards to the spark 20 of enlightenment. 21 ornate desk carved with an ocean motif, 22 reflecting the journey from British rule to 23 independence. 24 25 The writer's arm rests on an 6A depicts the spark rising from the writer's hand, emphasizing that the revolutionary www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 62 1 ideas contained within the document were born, 2 debated, and articulated by individuals who chose 3 to take action. 4 Reverse 7 captures the discovery that 5 Thomas Jefferson struck the word subjects from a 6 draft of the Declaration and replaced it with 7 citizens, representing a monumental shift in the 8 identity of America, no longer subjects of any 9 nation, but citizens of an emerging democratic 10 11 republic. Reverses 8 and 8A depict the Liberty 12 Bell ringing in Independence Hall. 13 unclear whether the bell rang out in July of 14 1776, the bell did often ring to draw people near 15 and share an announcement or a declaration. 16 While it's The bell's crack is visible, the 17 fragility of the bell echoing the fragility of a 18 young nation at its founding. 19 Reverse 9 depicts a version of an 20 early American heraldic eagle with an olive 21 branch and arrows. Peace and prosperity are 22 represented by the eagle perched above the 23 original shield of the eagle. 24 revisits the interlocking rings on the reverse of 25 the Fugio cent, an important early American coin. Reverse 10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 63 1 The 13 concentric circles represent the 2 individual states uniting to form the United 3 States. 4 Reverse 11 depicts the hand of one of 5 the drafters of the Declaration of Independence 6 as he begins to create the document that 7 proclaimed to the world why the colonies should 8 no longer remain under British rule and assert 9 the principles and ideas of a new nation. 10 And finally, reverses 12 and 12A 11 prominently feature the inscription 250, 12 emphasizing the commemoration of our nation's 13 semi-quincentennial. 14 frames the inscription, emphasizing the agency 15 exercised by the American people in the 16 Declaration of Independence. 17 Declaration designs. 18 19 20 A hand holding a quill CHAIR VAN ALFEN: That concludes the Thank you very much, April. Are there any technical or legal 21 questions from the committee about this program 22 or the designs for the 2026 quarter commemorating 23 the Declaration of Independence before we begin 24 our general discussion? 25 John Saunders. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 64 1 MEMBERS SAUNDERS: John Saunders here. 2 I have a question. 3 we've looked at before, in particular dime 0/01 4 and dime 0/06A, don't seem to be in the thing. 5 They dropped or what? 6 that were on this sheet from the last meeting 7 that don't seem to be here. 8 what happened to those. 9 Some of the designs that There's a couple of others MS. STAFFORD: And I'm just curious Based on the feedback 10 that we received from the CFA and the CCAC, there 11 were some designs that were set aside based on 12 scoring. 13 of the designs that originally lived in one 14 portfolio were ported over into another. 15 may be what you're seeing as well. However, you may be noticing that some 16 That And that was done in concert with 17 conversations with our advisors and looking to 18 strengthen the thematic messaging of the obverses 19 and reverses. 20 welcome to make recommendations from across the 21 portfolios. 22 But of course, the committee is CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Yes, and that will 23 be something that will be part of our general 24 discussion tomorrow once we have all of the 25 scoring and look at all of these portfolios www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 65 1 together simultaneously before making our 2 recommendations. 3 Any other questions or comments before 4 we begin? 5 consideration then. And again, I'd like to remind 6 our members to please keep your comments to five 7 minutes or less and to identify yourself prior to 8 speaking. 9 10 All right, so let us begin our Let's begin with Dr. Christopher Capozzola. 11 MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: All right, thank 12 you, Mr. Chair. This is Chris Capozzola. I have 13 the unenviable task of trying to express thoughts 14 on this in five minutes or less. I'll say a 15 couple things about, as I often do, about the big 16 picture way I approach this. 17 First of all, that the Declaration of 18 Independence functions both as a text and also as 19 an event. 20 challenge in this coin in conveying, well, 21 actually, something about the text of the 22 Declaration without being too wordy and something 23 about the event, an event that's actually rather 24 hard to capture other than through the visual 25 image of writing or signing or, in one case, And so I think that there's a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 66 1 declaring loudly, right? 2 The other thing is that I wanted -- I 3 think it's very important that the Mint adopt a 4 coinage that will reflect 2026, that we are not 5 trying merely to depict 1776, but we are trying 6 to say something about our country today that 7 will be memorable and meaningful to people who 8 see these coins 50 or 100 years from now. 9 So with that in mind, there are five 10 that I'd like to speak very briefly about that 11 I'm very excited about. 12 2. On the obverse, obverse Hold on one second. 13 I just feel -- and we've seen this 14 before, I think just obverse 2 is just an 15 incredibly beautiful design, well done by the 16 artist, and the spark in particular works, I 17 think, particularly well for the Declaration of 18 Independence, conveying the spark and the 19 beginning moment. 20 I also do really appreciate obverse 3. 21 Or, sorry, not three. Sorry, I've misspoken. 22 Obverse 4. 23 something that could only be struck in 2026. 24 Artistically, it's very strong and conveys the 25 act of writing, but has a more contemporary feel. Which I think very nicely conveys www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 67 1 On the reverse, there were three that 2 I appreciated very much, reverse 3. Again, on 3 reverse three or 3A, I think for me, 3 is the 4 more preferable one. 5 legible and conveys the site and where everything 6 happened. I do have some concerns about whether 7 this coin could have been made in 1976, just as 8 easily as it is today. 9 And this is certainly A surprise standout for me, in many 10 ways, is 4A, reverse 4A, which at first glance, I 11 didn't necessarily speak to me, but I think it 12 goes very nicely with a We the People design that 13 we'll be seeing for the Constitution portfolio in 14 our Constitution quarter. 15 that we not use the Greek E's, the sort of curvy. 16 I think, take attention away from what we're 17 doing. 18 Here, I would only ask And then finally, I will say I 19 appreciated 12A, reverse 12A, which is bold and 20 contemporary and has a very clear 250 message, 21 speaks to what it is that we will be celebrating 22 in the summer of 2026. 23 longer, but I'll stop. 24 25 And I could go on much CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, thank you very much, Chris. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 68 1 2 Jeanne Stevens-Sollman, if you would, please. 3 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: This is 4 Jeanne Stevens-Sollman. And thank you, Chris, 5 that was great. 6 to. 7 and the dates are -- it's quite an elegant 8 design. 9 with reverse 04. You said pretty much what I lean I think that the obverse 02 with the spark And I think that would pair very nicely 10 (Audio interference.) 11 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Yeah, very 12 good, thank you. And I agree with the Greek E, 13 we should probably change that. But those two 14 designs, I think, are simple and elegant. 15 think that that is all I have to say. I Thank you. 16 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you very much. 17 Annelisa Purdie, if you would, please. 18 MEMBER PURDIE: Thank you, Mr. 19 Chairman. 20 -- this is Annelisa Purdie. 21 detailed portfolio. 22 err on the side of brevity as much as possible. 23 As this is a very detailed portfolio This is a very Again, I'm going to try and I'm actually going to start with the 24 reverses, which overall, I tended to like a 25 little better than the obverses. I also enjoy www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 69 1 design 12A, I think it works. 2 mistaken, there were two hands with quills when 3 we looked at this previously. 4 If I'm not I think the one works very well. The 5 only thing I'm potentially concerned about is 6 whether we should put years in some way on this 7 coin just to specify. 8 understood, but just to enhance the 250. 9 I also loved 10, reverse 10. I think it's definitely 10 it works, I think it's symmetrical. 11 callback and it's more motif-based versus 12 image-based, which works excellently. 13 And it's, I think, the lettering as well 14 complements each of the designs. 15 I think I like the For the obverses, number 1 was a 16 favorite, the autonomy of Liberty hammering 17 herself out works well. 18 also shows that this is a process, that liberty 19 is a growing process, that it takes time. 20 And I think the design There's also something very striking 21 about the fact that her torch needs to be 22 hammered out too, that she can't hold it while 23 she's trying to create something new. 24 think that that would speak to everyone. 25 And I Number 2 with the spark, I think this www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 70 1 was one that we all appreciated as well. I think 2 this works, it's clean, it's classic. 3 can be interpreted in different ways. The spark 4 Number four, I also believe this is a 5 design that was changed with the quasi virgin cap 6 before. 7 well. 8 while looking at the declaration with the quill. I think the changes on this one works I love the intent expression that she has 9 Not ambivalent about the hair, but 10 that's something that can be potentially 11 adjusted. 12 overall, I think this is a very clean design. 13 think her perspective is also works very well. 14 This is a very unusual perspective for a coin. 15 lease don't bring the cap back. But I Okay, design number five, is very much 16 giving Archangel Gabriel versus the coming -- the 17 advent of the Declaration of Independence, but 18 I'm not mad at it. 19 overall design. 20 not sure how well this would show up on the 21 quarter because of its size. 22 think this is very well done. 23 I think it, I like the The details are beautiful. But overall, I Of this set, my favorite of the 24 obverses is 6. I like the fact that the 25 Declaration of Independence is displayed very www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I'm Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 71 1 clearly. Again, some concerns about details 2 because of the size of the coin, but at the same 3 time, the message is coming across. 4 I think the stars are rendered very, 5 very well. 6 And again, that perspective of her looking 7 upwards and outwards rather than off to the side 8 is also very compelling. 9 Thank you. 10 11 And overall, it's very symmetrical. And that's it for me. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you very much. 12 All right, Annelisa. John Saunders. MEMBER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Peter. 13 John Saunders here. 14 first. 15 bricks to build the thing, I like those as 16 reverse designs. 17 I'll do the obverse designs The two with the hammering or laying I think of the obverse as being not so 18 much portraying action, but portraying a figure. 19 And action like this seems to fit with the 20 reverse to my tastes better than obverse. 21 Going on to obverse 2, which is the 22 spark. I like the design. 23 the expression on her face. 24 what have I got here? 25 expression was different. I don't really like It's kind of like, It's kind of like, the I'd like that design a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 72 1 2 lot. CQ02, with her holding, standing, 3 holding the torch. 4 And the last two, two versions of 03. 5 particularly like the expression on Liberty's 6 face, so I would be against that. Of the ones 7 here, I like 02 the best, CQ02 the best, and DQ 8 if we had a different expression. 9 I like that design a lot. MS. STAFFORD: I don't Sorry, I should have 10 explained the pairing sheet that you have also 11 has some of the Constitution quarter designs, and 12 we haven't actually gone through those as yet. 13 MEMBER SAUNDERS: 14 MS. STAFFORD: Okay. So we're not able to 15 switch back and forth if you're talking about 16 Constitution designs, but perhaps after the next 17 portfolio, if you wanted to talk about them all 18 together, we could also pull up that sheet that 19 you have in front of you. 20 MEMBERS SAUNDERS: Well, for obverses, 21 to the extent we can pick and choose, but my 22 favorite obverse was, if I can find it here, was 23 the one originally DIME-006A, which I don't know 24 that we got that one last time. 25 but I don't remember 06A. I remember 06, I like the expression www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 73 1 on 06A. 2 06 kind of looked vamped a little bit 3 expression-wise. I like the figure of Liberty 4 there. 5 are allowed to mix and match, is 006A. So again, my favorite, to the extent we 6 In terms of reverses, there's two I 7 don't like. The acorn on its side looks like the 8 United States got knocked over. 9 negative symbolism. I can see some And the first one, where 10 it's the Tree of Liberty and the roots there, it 11 looks more like the nation's cracking rather than 12 the roots. 13 I mean, I understand by looking at 14 what it is, but if I got that coin and wasn't 15 part of the design group, I would say, oh, 16 there's a celebration of the nation cracking 17 apart. So I was in favor of those two. 18 The one with the really tall tree, 19 interesting, but I don't think it works really 20 well on a coin. 21 than the Capitol Building, because we're talking 22 about the Declaration of Independence and the 23 Capitol came quite a bit later. 24 25 I like Independence Hall better And I like We the People with the Hands Raised very much. And again, the design www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 74 1 for the platinum that we just discussed, I see 2 now why Peter had us do the quarters first. 3 we don't use one or three from the platinum, I 4 think it would make a great reverse on the dime 5 or any of the coins for that matter. 6 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 7 Sam Gelberd. 8 MEMBER GELBERD: 9 This is Sam Gelberd. If Thank you very much. Thank you, Peter. For the Declaration of 10 Independence quarters, I agree with a lot of what 11 we've already heard. 12 the set. 13 spark of enlightenment. 14 Obverse 2 is my favorite of I love the way Liberty's cradling a And to move from what John was saying, 15 I actually think her expression, Liberty's 16 expression shows an innocence and an optimistic 17 candor, which is a great metaphor for the first 18 quarter for 2026. I really do love this design. 19 For the reverses, as a coin collector, 20 I have to go with reverse number 9, the Heraldic 21 Eagle. 22 some of the earlier series in the United States, 23 especially with quarters and higher denomination, 24 actually going from dimes or half dimes all the 25 way up. It recalls some of the earliest coinage, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 75 1 I just think this is going to be 2 something that a lot of people will latch on to. 3 The great symbolism, of course, you know, we can 4 get into rules of heraldry with the arrows and 5 olive branches. 6 metaphor as well. 7 The shield, it's a great We are supporting ourselves having to 8 hold the shield. 9 point. We are our own nation at that So I'm going to be a very strong advocate 10 for this reverse design in particular. 11 Some of the others are nice. 12 I do like seeing Independence Hall, 13 only because with the Declaration of 14 Independence, I think it would be a nice tie. 15 Reverse 10, I would be okay with as well, similar 16 to the continental currency coinage that we've 17 seen and the Fugio cent that was popular in the 18 1780s. 19 But ultimately, obverse 2 and reverse 20 9 are my choices for this particular design. 21 Thank you. 22 23 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Sam, thank you very much. 24 Mike Moran, if you would please. 25 MEMBER MORAN: This is Mike Moran. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 76 1 I'm going to go with the rest of the group on the 2 obverse. 3 an excellent design. 4 brainer. 5 quarter. Also, the design number. I think it's I think it'll be a no I think it would be beautiful on the 6 There are two others I'd like to at 7 least note in passing. Design number one. 8 really think that design number one on the 9 obverse is more suited to the Constitution I 10 because that is a document that is still in 11 process, still changing. 12 And also design number four. I think 13 that's a handsome coin, the Liberty that's 14 depicted there. 15 the enlightenment that went with number two. 16 that's where I'm going place my vote. 17 But I really like the symbolism, And On the reverse, I'm really not shot 18 with any of them in particular. 19 one, I don't see it the way John does, that it's 20 fractured. 21 doesn't reach out quite to get me. 22 Design number The symbolism is there, but it just I am surprised that nobody's brought 23 up design number five yet. 24 good design. 25 It shows the optimism. I really think it's a I think it works for the quarter. As well as the quill that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 77 1 was used to draft the Declaration of 2 Independence, that there's a new nation of birth 3 here. 4 clouds. The symbolism is good. 5 That sun shows it, shining above the Now I get on my high horse. We're 6 going here with 250 on it. 7 dates, operative dates on the obverse, 1776 and 8 2026. 9 We don't need a redundant 250 on the back. 10 We've got the two I passed math when I was in grade school. If we do, then God help our education. 11 And I'll go off on the Phrygian cap when we get 12 around to the dimes on that, but I'll spare that 13 one for another time. 14 I can see some of the others. 15 I really do like five, but Sam's case on the heraldic eagle. 16 I do like the interlocking rings that are 17 reminiscent of the Fugio cent. 18 probably spreading my points around on the 19 reverse. I've said enough. 20 21 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: And But I'll end up Thank you very much, Mike. 22 Don Scarinci, your turn. 23 MEMBER SCARINCI: So I think we're 24 going to have an opportunity, I think, at the end 25 to put all five quarters together and look at www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 78 1 them. That'll be much, much needed. 2 Because I think if we're going to go with these 3 new images of liberty, then a certain consistency 4 might be interesting. 5 And therefore, while I like number one 6 and 1a, I agree, I think John said, it's better 7 with the Constitution. 8 Constitution is the work in process. 9 kind of put that on the side for a minute. 10 And it is. The So we can I think two of the obverses would be 11 my choice. 12 each one of these, I don't really care for the, I 13 think without the laurel wreath and without what 14 appears to be a standing Liberty-like clothing of 15 the Constitution, of armor, I think in just 16 contemporary dress would be a nicer coin, but 17 that interferes with the artist's vision here. 18 And while you're going to hear me in And since we are hearkening back, I 19 think it's a justifiable design image. 20 think number two is going to be consistent with 21 the other ones we're going to be considering and 22 looking at seriously. 23 So I In the reverse, I really think it 24 comes down to three at the end of the day. 25 this is the generic Constitution, this is the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 79 1 generic Declaration of Independence. 2 either go with the Fugio and I actually owned 52 3 of the 60 varieties of Fugio sense in my head of 4 my collection. 5 So we could I sold them to Syd Martin, which just 6 got auctioned off. And now the Fugio is 7 considered America's first coin. 8 contract coin in 1787. 9 anything bad about that coin, but I think the It was a And so I can't say 10 Liberty Bell is the Liberty Bell, right? 11 is what it is. 12 exactly this. 13 And it It's iconic, it stands for And so does Independence Hall, 14 although Independence Hall has a claim for the 15 Constitution as well. 16 would choose from. 17 the Liberty Bell and the Fugio reverse design, 18 the linked chains. These are the three that I So my passion would recommend 19 But I think probably the image that 20 would resonate with the people who are going to 21 use a quarter is probably Liberty Bell. 22 want to hear what everybody else has to say about 23 those three in particular. 24 25 So I I just also want to -- it's also kind of what's fascinating when we at this whole www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 80 1 portfolio that we're looking at today, 250 years 2 later, we're still depicting, we're trending to 3 depict liberty with a woman. 4 And I just think it's kind of -- 5 there's a certain kind of weird irony in the fact 6 that we depict liberty as women, but they didn't 7 get the right to vote as if until the 20th 8 century. 9 one of these weird works of history, but we're So I kind of think it's just kind of 10 still doing it and we're still doing it. 11 anyway -- so anyway, that's all I have. 12 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: So I'll just note here 13 that part of the reason I think that liberty has 14 been depicted as a woman is because liberty, the 15 word is derived from Latin, libertas, which is a 16 feminine noun. 17 was also depicted as a woman, probably because of 18 that feminine aspect of that noun. 19 20 21 And in the ancient world, liberty So, Kellen Hoard, if you would, please. MEMBER HOARD: Sure, thank you. Well, 22 I want to start by saying the entire 23 semi-quintennial series is a stunning and amazing 24 and a wonderful lesson in history and a wonderful 25 time going through all of it. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 81 1 And my immediate reaction is the 2 marketing department better be preparing to send 3 folders for these quarters to every classroom in 4 America so that students can learn about this. 5 I think it is really phenomenal. 6 For me, as I was going through all the 7 semi-quintennial designs, but especially the 8 Declaration of Independence one, I was basically 9 asking myself a couple of questions. 10 what are Americans going to like? 11 going to understand? 12 use? 13 questions. I said, What are they And what are they going to And to me, those are three very distinct 14 And so, in order to find the best 15 design that answered all of them well, I looked 16 for visual continuity, I looked for thematic 17 clarity, and I looked for artistic fit. 18 where does that leave us but declaration coin? 19 I'm wondering if it might be possible to pull up 20 the obverse 5 design for the half dollar. 21 Is that possible for the half dollar? 22 MS. STAFFORD: Obverse 5. 23 MEMBER HOARD: Okay. 24 observe 5 deserves our attention. 25 out there. So, So, I think It's a little It deserves our attention. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It's my Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 82 1 first choice, actually, for the Declaration 2 Quarter obverse. 3 represents liberty for a plurality, if not a 4 majority, of Americans. 5 The Statue of Liberty And there's a reason five million of 6 them visit it every single year. While reviewing 7 this portfolio, I spent a lot of time talking 8 with people across the United States that I had 9 met through all the different paths of life about 10 the themes that were represented in this 11 portfolio. 12 Actually, as I was studying abroad, I 13 also was talking with Europeans about how they 14 saw American liberty. 15 citizens from all backgrounds, the statue was 16 ubiquitous in basically every single conversation 17 I had. 18 And students and retirees, What the statue represents is not only 19 iconic, but also it's so crucial for our country 20 right now. 21 freedom and multilateralism and safety and 22 protection and acceptance. 23 It's this concept of democracy and And its presence on our coins, I 24 think, would be an important indicator of 25 American sustained belief and our sustained www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 83 1 belief as a committee in those ideals. 2 think obverse 5 is right for the half dollar, but 3 it is right for the Declaration of Independence 4 quarter. 5 I don't The statue explicitly honors the 6 consequences and benefits of the declaration and 7 demonstrates how America's declaration, as we 8 heard from the description, its first and boldest 9 expressions of the values and aspirations that 10 define our national identity has persisted 11 through to today as recognized by and aspire to 12 by nations around the world. 13 It's thematically perfect, a symbol of 14 liberty, which won't be confused for that of any 15 other nation. 16 Washington quarter. 17 which much of the public associates with the 18 quarter, but it's also innovative and dynamic as 19 we view the statue from this unique vantage point 20 and with a modern artistic style based in 21 classical roots. 22 It has visual continuity from the It's essentially a bust, The Statue of Liberty design fits 23 every requirement of the obverse descriptions and 24 design elements of the declaration quarter. 25 even got that squiggly line that we really love www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It's Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 84 1 between the dates. 2 and death date that we always complain about. 3 We don't think it's a birth I mean, it's down to the detail, 4 right? And it fits the size of a quarter well. 5 mean, it has the perfect number of elements, the 6 perfect amount of detail, the inscriptions. It 7 matches stylistically well with so many of the 8 reverse design options. 9 not the first semi-quincentennial coin the public 10 I This will be one of, if hears about and encounters. 11 And what better way to kind of dip the 12 toes of the public into this exciting and huge 13 change we're pursuing with the entire series than 14 with a familiar symbol presented in a new light, 15 not just taking away George Washington, but 16 actually uplifting a more expansive and broadly 17 accepted version of this like quintessentially 18 American liberty. 19 And I want to address the other 20 declaration obverse designs because I think that 21 against any of them, this Statue of Liberty 22 design actually is stronger in multiple metrics. 23 You can probably tell I have strong feelings 24 about this. 25 obverses. So we can go back to the quarter www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 85 1 So I've raised my concerns about 2 obverse 1 and 1A before. 3 thematically and metaphorically kind of off the 4 mark, highlighting a liberty which must sustain 5 itself rather than deriving its power from the 6 consent of the governed or requiring sustained 7 work by Americans to protect it. 8 9 I think it's I also think that actually in a post-election world, there's a possibility many 10 Americans will view it as liberty being trapped, 11 trying to escape but held back by a stony grip of 12 ignorance or stubbornness or tyranny or 13 bureaucracy or a politician. 14 It's also not as distinctly American 15 liberty, at least relative to the Statue of 16 Liberty design. 17 depiction isn't, I think, the right way for us to 18 be innovative and forward-looking with our core 19 designs. 20 complex for the small service area of the 21 quarter. 22 And this kind of Greco-Roman I also think that may be too visually It's a nicely done design with 23 artistic merit. And I know many of you like it, 24 but I don't think it's appropriate for this 25 particular coin or the Constitution. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I would Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 86 1 recommend we reserve it actually for a future 2 series. 3 Obverse 2 is okay, but it's just that, 4 it's okay. 5 something exciting with our quarter, I think we'd 6 be misguided to choose this less dynamic design 7 where Liberty looks to me somewhat apathetic 8 about this spark in our hand, and is steering off 9 behind it. 10 Presented with an opportunity to do I also think it would be thematically 11 confusing to the public. 12 your kid or your grandkid think clearly of the 13 Declaration of Independence or appreciate its 14 power or appreciate its longevity? We have the 15 opportunity to do so much more here. 16 Would this design make I think the main question for 17 Americans will be, who is this woman? 18 she have leaves in her hair? And why is she 19 practicing magic? It's also an artistic kind of 20 line with most of the obverse designs and other 21 portfolios. 22 Why does So I think we have a real opportunity 23 here to avoid that one. Obverse 3 is well drawn, 24 but I had a kind of immediate and visceral 25 negative reaction to this concept of a woman www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 87 1 engraving the phrase, all men are created equal, 2 into this ionic column. 3 The quote is of course iconic, but in 4 the modern political and social context of gender 5 and equality, this comes across in exactly the 6 wrong way. 7 wrong impression away from this, in addition to 8 being confused how a column relates to their 9 modern impression of liberty or the Declaration 10 I worry Americans would take the of Independence. 11 When we scored design, or obverse 4 12 last time, we didn't give it many points. 13 this isn't enough of a visually dynamic design to 14 be really this figurehead in our ship of 15 semi-quincentennial overhaul, to be the first 16 encounter Americans have with radical numismatic 17 redesign. 18 To me, I think the main question for 19 Americans will again be, who is this woman? 20 is she wearing a toga? 21 use a quill to write on the cover of a book? 22 So that was my question. 23 Why And why is she about to Obverse 5, 5A, 6, and 6A are 24 interesting conceptually, but I worry about their 25 translation to quarter size, the relatability to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 88 1 young Americans, and their actual representation, 2 the lasting impacts of the Declaration. 3 So as I said at the beginning, I think 4 we ought to strongly consider obverse 5 of the 5 half dollar among this portfolio. 6 all please at least include it in our 7 considerations of the obverse for this piece. 8 9 I ask us to And I actually think, going to reverses now, I think there's a number of 10 reverses designs with which it pairs excellently. 11 Reverse 8a, really wonderfully, with the Statue 12 of Liberty obverse, pairs two iconic symbols of 13 American liberty, and widely recognizable and 14 powerful, but really underutilized in recent 15 circulating coinage history in America. 16 The Liberty Bell captures this theme 17 beautifully and perfectly, and it also captures 18 the theme specifically at the time of the 19 Declaration itself. 20 The Statue of Liberty would in turn capture a 21 hundred years later, and a coin captures it 250 22 years later. 23 This is a very 1770s symbol. We see this path through time. I 24 actually do prefer 8A to 8 here, by the way, 25 because I think that Liberty inside the bell is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 89 1 both more visually interesting and makes the 2 field less crowded. 3 For similar reason, I like 3A, which 4 has come up with some other members, though I do 5 think it's too wordy, and I feel like I'm being 6 inundated by the descriptions, and I'm wondering 7 if others on the committee like this design, if 8 we could look into adjusting descriptions to be 9 less, you know, filled with text. Either way, it 10 pairs nicely. 11 Finally, I also rather like 12A as a 12 design, which really well captures why we're even 13 doing this in the first place. 14 anniversary of the U.S. 15 underestimate the need to communicate that 16 clearly to the public. 17 It's the 250th I think we can't I think it pairs less well with my 18 preferred offers, but it's really still quite 19 visually dynamic in the way we're looking for. 20 So, thank you for letting me get up on my soapbox 21 here. 22 hopefully we can talk more about this. 23 I appreciate you giving me this time, and CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you. You were 24 not kidding about the fact that we would hear 25 more from you over the weekend, but again, I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 90 1 really do appreciate your passion and your 2 insights on this. 3 Art Bernstein, if you would please. 4 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: This is Arthur 5 Bernstein. 6 for you in terms of the computer. 7 obverses, I'd like to do this in reverse order. 8 9 Megan, I'm going to make this easier On the So, starting with the Series 6, I found those designs to be just too musical. 10 Excuse me, 5, the Bugle. 11 found the image of Liberty deep in thought to be 12 very compelling, and with all due respect to 13 Kellen, I don't think that's the book she's 14 holding. 15 So, on design 4, I What I think that, to my mind, what 16 that is, is Jefferson wrote the Declaration of 17 Independence on a box desk, and I saw that as the 18 box that Jefferson wrote the Declaration upon. 19 And that design, design 3, would be my first 20 choice. 21 do it myself by going in reverse order. 22 Excuse me, design 4, I'm looking. I can I share with Kellen the thought about 23 design 3, the woman carving the word men on the 24 pillar just seemed to be contradictory to me. 25 With regard to design 2, I also share with www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 91 1 Kellen, I had the same reaction, that seemed like 2 a magic trick or almost a Star Trek kind of thing 3 where this orbital item is rotating above her 4 hand, and I just thought it was too mystical. 5 And design 1 was going to be my first 6 choice, and one advantage of going late in the 7 conversation is I heard the comments about the 8 carving being more emblematic of the 9 Constitution, and so that went from my first 10 choice to my second choice. 11 For the reverses, I'm not sure I have 12 much to add. 13 in which they appear. 14 reverse 1, also seemed complicated to me. 15 didn't see a cracking nation, I saw a circulatory 16 system. 17 Independence design speech in Independence Hall, 18 as stated before, as that's where the document 19 was adopted. 20 I'm going to do that in the order The roots on design 1, I I did like the Declaration of The design that we saw for the 21 platinum coins, design 5, which I thought was 22 beautiful for the platinum, I thought would not 23 work on the quarter just because of the 24 diminution in the size of the coin. I thought on 25 the smaller coin it would not appear as well as www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 92 1 it would on the platinum. 2 With regard to design 8 and 8A, the 3 Liberty Bell, if I'm correct, I think the clapper 4 has moved from the one end to the other, which 5 was something we talked about at the previous 6 meeting, and I just wanted to say I appreciate 7 being heard. 8 9 And I would prefer the first design, design 8, rather than have design 8A, with the 10 word Liberty appearing inside the bell where it 11 doesn't appear in reality. 12 comments, thank you, Mr. Chairman. 13 14 15 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Those are my All right, thank you very much. For my own comments, when I was 16 looking not just at this portfolio for the 17 Declaration of Independence quarter, but all five 18 portfolios for the five quarters, I had in mind 19 trying to find a way to represent the five 20 inflection points chronologically and not just 21 thematically. 22 And for that reason, I find 2, obverse 23 2, to be compelling in part because this 24 representation of Liberty does have a rather 25 classic aspect to her, and therefore I think www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 93 1 would in many ways represent the beginnings of 2 this endeavor in 1776. 3 This remains my favorite obverse. I 4 am less compelled by some of the others. 5 find to be serviceable, although again, as I 6 expressed before in July, I'm a little less drawn 7 to this particular perspective looking up her 8 nose, as it were, which again reminds me a little 9 bit too much of the Zoom calls that we're all too 10 Four, I familiar with. 11 Obverses 5 and 6, as Annelisa pointed 12 out, just is a little bit too reminiscent of the 13 angel Gabrielle and, therefore, seems to be a 14 little bit mixing artistic elements and 15 expression. 16 For the reverses, I do find number 3 17 to be serviceable. 18 Independence Hall in Philadelphia I think is 19 attractive in this case, but I worry a little bit 20 about how self-evident, as it says there, this 21 building would be to the general population. 22 The depiction of the They might not realize the 23 significance or, in fact, what this building is. 24 And also, as Chris pointed out, there is a little 25 bit too much 1976 possibly since the Declaration www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 94 1 of Independence was in fact depicted on one of 2 the coins during that program. 3 I am less drawn to reverse 4, the 4 clasped hands, in part because I believe that 5 recently we did have a similar depiction on, I 6 think it was the Harriet Tubman series, and 7 therefore would be in some ways repeating this, 8 and I'm certainly not a fan of the font used on 9 either one of these two reverses, four or 4A. 10 I also think that 5 would be a 11 serviceable reverse in this case. 12 to be rather attractive, both for the obverse of 13 the platinum proof as well as for the reverse of 14 this Declaration of Independence, but my favorite 15 by far is 9. 16 I do find this This, as Sam pointed out, is very 17 classic, and I think it would pair very well with 18 obverse 2, and again, if we are thinking of 19 representing the chronological progression of 20 these inflection points would certainly be a 21 reflection of that beginnings in part because 22 this is very reminiscent of early U.S. 19th 23 century coinage. 24 10, for that very same reason, I think would also 25 work just as well. The Fugio cent reverse number www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 95 1 So those are my comments, and I will 2 certainly be willing to ask at this point if 3 there are any questions or even motions from the 4 members at this time. 5 also ask Mr. Hunt, Mr. Richard Hunt, if you are 6 still with us, if you have any comments at this 7 time on this portfolio. 8 MR. HUNT: And hearing none, I'll I really appreciated the 9 discussion. I really appreciated the discussion 10 you've had. It's interesting the tension between 11 trying to represent 1776 and speak to 2026, and 12 especially across the coins. 13 And to my thinking, given our 14 fractured political environment, something like 15 that link chain is sending another powerful 16 message today that we do need to stand together 17 to preserve the republic and our democracy. 18 But you folks have covered a lot of 19 ground and there's a lot of food for thought 20 here. So thank you very much. 21 22 23 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you very much, Mr. Hunt. Are there any other comments or 24 comments from the Mint staff? 25 Mike or anyone else. All right. Let me ask Joe or There is no www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 96 1 further discussion. 2 score the obverse and reverse candidate designs 3 for the 2026 quarter commemorating the 4 Declaration of Independence. 5 Then the committee will now When you are done, please return them 6 to CCAC Council, Greg Weinman. We will take a 7 roughly five minute break for members to score. 8 And again, Greg will present the results after 9 lunch when we will have a general discussion 10 about this portfolio and the Platinum Proof 11 Portfolio and the Constitution Quarter Portfolio. 12 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 13 went off the record at 11:01 a.m. and resumed at 14 11:08 a.m.) 15 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay, we are back 16 and moving on to the next semiquincentennial 17 candidate design portfolio. 18 considering the obverse and reverse candidates' 19 designs for the 2026 quarter number 2 featuring 20 the U.S. Constitution which April Stafford and 21 Russ Evans will now present. We are now 22 So April, all yours, please. 23 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you so much. 24 Some background on this quarter. The 25 Constitution of the United States was approved by www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 97 1 the Continental Convention in 1787, ratified by 2 the states in 1788, and took effect in March 3 1789. 4 supreme law of the land and defines the purpose 5 of the new government, the framework for the 6 institutions of the Federal Government, the 7 relationships of the states to the Federal 8 Government, and the processes to ratify and amend 9 the Constitution. It establishes the Constitution as the It is the world's oldest, 10 written, national government charter still in 11 use. 12 The U.S. Constitution's Preamble 13 declares that the American people are the source 14 of sovereignty for the nation, distinguishing it 15 from 18th century nations that based sovereignty 16 on the divine right of kings, monarchal dynasties 17 or the power of the sword to determine who should 18 rule. 19 established this Constitution to form a more 20 perfect union. 21 Constitution, would represent the people of the 22 United States and act to establish justice, 23 ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the 24 common defense, promote the general welfare, and 25 secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and We, the people, the Founders declared, The government, under the U.S. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 98 1 our posterity. 2 The U.S. Constitution describes the 3 unique form of representative government with the 4 House of Representatives directly elected by the 5 people, the Senate representing the states, and 6 the President elected by an electoral college to 7 administer the laws of the land. 8 liberty and fundamental rights, the U.S. 9 Constitution separates government powers among To protect 10 the Executive, Judicial, and Legislative branches 11 to provide checks and balances to prevent one 12 branch from assuming unlimited authority. 13 also describes the federal system where defined 14 powers are ascribed to the Federal Government, 15 but other powers remain with the states or the 16 people, providing another level of separation and 17 balance in the distribution of governmental 18 authority and power over the nation. It 19 As an inflection point our nation's 20 250-year history, the U.S. Constitution put the 21 aspirations outlined in the Declaration of 22 Independence into practice and provided the 23 functional framework for how our country would 24 operate. Obverse designs feature personified 25 Liberty. Some depictions reference the theme of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 99 1 the U.S. Constitution through Liberty's garb or 2 symbolic elements, while others are more 3 generalized. 4 Unum, in God We Trust, and 1776 through 2026. 5 The reverses commemorate the U.S. Inscriptions include E Pluribus 6 Constitution and its ratification as a critical 7 inflection point in our nation's history, a point 8 at which the Founders defined a framework for our 9 working government to make practical the 10 principles expressed in the Declaration of 11 Independence. 12 United States of America, and Quarter Dollar. 13 Artists were also asked to include the 14 inscription U.S. Constitution. 15 Inscriptions include Liberty, the Obverse designs for the Constitution 16 quarter. 17 adorned with olive branches to symbolize peace, 18 actively building a foundation for the United 19 States brick by brick. 20 striding confidently toward the future holding 21 her torch, a symbol of enlightenment. 22 other hand, she holds the U.S. Constitution. 23 She's crowned with oak leaves for strength and 24 wears the emblem of a shield for protection. 25 Obverse 1 and 1A portray Liberty, hair Obverse 2 depicts Liberty In her Obverse 3 features Liberty with a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 100 1 quill and scroll displaying We the People in 2 reference to the Constitution. 3 Obverse 4 depicts Liberty nurturing 4 intertwining flames and stars representing the 5 principles of enlightenment found in the U.S. 6 Constitution. 7 For reverse designs, reverses 1 and 1A 8 depict the Capitol Dome, three stars representing 9 the three branches of government outlined in the 10 U.S. Constitution and powerful phrases from the 11 founding documents. 12 inscription Toward A More Perfect Union and 1A, 13 We the People. 14 Design 1 features the Reverse 2 features a strong and 15 healthy oak tree representing our country 16 supported by the fertile soil of the U.S. 17 Constitution and fueled by the light of liberty. 18 The additional inscription is We the People. 19 Reverse 3 looks up into the canopy of 20 a strong and healthy oak, symbolizing a strong 21 and growing country with liberty at its core. 22 The additional inscription is We the People. 23 Reverse 4 features a group of hands 24 raising and supporting a key phrase from the 25 Constitution, We the People. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 101 1 Reverse 5 employs symbolism of nature 2 to chronicle America's journey through its 3 founding documents. 4 clouds receding and the sunlight growing 5 stronger, marking the nation's transition to a 6 new form of self-government. 7 quill, a young tree has taken root, representing 8 the Constitution as a living framework in this 9 landscape. The design shows the storm In place of the Its form echoes the shape of the 10 quill, seen in a companion design in the 11 Declaration of Independence quarter portfolio, as 12 a visual reminder that this new system of 13 government is informed by and builds upon the 14 values and ideals set for in the Declaration. 15 Reverse 6 illustrates the crafting of 16 the U.S. Constitution, an allegorical depiction 17 of nation building. 18 dissipating clouds as construction workers labor 19 together erecting the framework of the U.S. 20 Constitution. The document is positioned 21 permanently, forming the structure's main feature 22 and providing protection to the systems of 23 government to be housed within. 24 25 Sunlight breaks through Reverse 7 spotlights the iconic phrase We the People from the Preamble of the U.S. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 102 1 Constitution. 2 proclaims the American people coming together 3 under a representative government grounded in the 4 consent of the governed. 5 Dominating the visual field, it Reverse 8 features a foundation of 6 bricks and stone with a large cornerstone set at 7 the center. The nation's motto, E Pluribus Unum, 8 is embodied by the brick which comes together to 9 build a foundation representing the U.S. 10 Constitution. 11 the People. 12 The additional inscription is We Reverse 9 features a detail from the 13 chair used by George Washington during his tenure 14 as President of our Constitutional Convention in 15 1787. 16 Franklin noted the sun carved into the back of 17 Washington's chair. At the conclusion of the 18 convention, Franklin is said to have remarked I 19 have often in the course of the session looked at 20 that sun behind the President without being able 21 to tell whether it was rising or setting. But now 22 at length, I have the happiness to know it is a 23 rising sun and not a setting sun. 24 25 Throughout the convention, Benjamin Reverse 10 represents the significance of the drafting of the U.S. Constitution has on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 103 1 our nation by depicting a hand holding a quill as 2 it forms the United States flag. 3 includes the additional inscription We the 4 People. 5 The design Reverse 11 features Independence Hall 6 in Philadelphia where the U.S. Constitution was 7 created and signed in 1787. 8 inscription is We the People. 9 10 The additional And finally, Reverse 12 depicts the inscription We the People over an American flag. 11 And Mr. Chairman, I'll also call up 12 another contact sheet that we distributed to CCAC 13 members. 14 created both a Declaration of Independence and 15 Constitution obverse or reverse to work together. 16 So here, you see that there are three designs. 17 On the left are the Declaration of Independence 18 candidate designs and on the right their 19 companion U.S. Constitution pairings. 20 There are pairs here of any artists who And then the reverses, we have 21 something similar where artists were asked to 22 build a potential relationship between the two 23 founding documents across the reverses. 24 the left, you have the Declaration of 25 Independence candidate designs and on the right, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So on Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 104 1 the companion designs for the U.S. Constitution. 2 I will also note that in our 3 conversations with federal advisors, as well as 4 the CCAC semiquincentennial work group, there was 5 an identification of an opportunity across both 6 the Declaration of Independence and U.S. 7 Constitution quarters to potentially form a 8 relationship across the obverse and reverse so 9 that both the comparison of these both being 10 Founding documents can be made, but also at the 11 same time using those conventions to bring to 12 light the distinction of how these documents are 13 viewed. 14 That concludes the designs. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: April, thank you 15 very much and thank you very much also for 16 highlighting these pairings which I'm sure many 17 of us already noticed to some degree with the 18 obverse and reverse candidate designs, but it 19 certainly is helpful to know that there was an 20 element of planning in this as well, too. 21 thank you for that. 22 So All right, are there any technical or 23 legal questions from the committee before we 24 begin our review of this portfolio? 25 All right, then let us begin our www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 105 1 consideration and I would like to remind members 2 again to please try to keep your comments to five 3 minutes and to identify yourself prior to 4 speaking for the public record. 5 6 Kellen, let's begin with you this time. 7 MEMBER HOARD: All right, sounds good. 8 This is the other one I have a little bit to say 9 about. First of all, what I say is I understand 10 many of you like obverse 1A and -- 1 and 1A from 11 that last design. 12 before. 13 a really good design here. 14 1 and 1A for the Declaration. 15 look at that. I raise the same concerns as In large respect, I think we should have 16 Not this one, sorry, We don't have to I also know many of you like obverse 17 2 with the Constitutional design and I think it's 18 an okay design, but I really want to highlight 19 obverse 3. 20 designs for me for a couple of different reasons. 21 What's key about the Constitution is that it sets 22 up our system of government and places the 23 burden, the authority, the privilege, the 24 responsibility of that government into the hands 25 of the people. And obverse 3 here eclipses all other This is what made America www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 106 1 distinct from the beginning. It's what has 2 allowed us to persist this strength over the last 3 250 years and it's critical that we as an 4 Americans continue to recognize in the future 5 that the direction of our government and our 6 country is on us. 7 The first line of the Constitution, 8 that first phrase, We the People, is iconic and 9 deeply important for a reason because it made 10 clear in no uncertain terms that this is what the 11 Constitution and our country at large is all 12 about. 13 as viewers explicitly that we the people, have 14 certain responsibilities and certain rights. 15 Obverse 3 captures that well reminding us Seeing We the People there on the coin 16 forces us as Americans to finish that sentence, 17 to really contemplate what comes next. 18 is looking right at us in the design, asking us 19 and reminding us to continually contemplate 20 implications of these Founding documents, of this 21 phrase, We the People. 22 gaze because she's looking to us and at us as 23 people, not like away from us like in some of the 24 other designs. 25 Liberty It's hard to avoid her The quill she holds is a reminder, to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 107 1 me at least, that our Constitution is amendable 2 and that as we become a more enlightened country 3 that we can revise and strengthen our Founding 4 documents because we the people control it. 5 The design is a powerful light 6 connected on multiple levels. Some are more 7 explicit than others with our theme and in a way 8 I think Americans would like and understand and 9 utilize. It's a visually appealing, well 10 balanced design which uses the space well. 11 a modern version of liberty and both recognizable 12 and innovative. 13 It's We live in a time of really civic 14 apathy and widespread concern that we're 15 deviating from our values and principles and I 16 think it's crucial that we use the tools we have, 17 in this case this coin, to emphasize to the 18 public to say directly to the public with our 19 coin and with the eyes of Liberty and with the 20 inscriptions and that they, and not a metaphor, 21 not a torch, not some universal power or not a 22 column, that they themselves have the power to 23 shape their own path forward. 24 partial to obverse 3. 25 So I really am With the reverse, I think the art www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 108 1 style of obverse 3 also aligns very closely with 2 maybe the art style of some of the reverse 3 designs more than any other obverse choice and 4 gives us so many other options. 5 particular, is new and exciting and well 6 designed. 7 captures perfectly this idea of the Constitution 8 as the roots of our nation, a living organism 9 which is grown into really a thing of beauty. 10 The perspective of reverse 3 makes me feel as 11 though I'm looking up as an American from the 12 Constitution as lasting legacy. 13 that's by far my favorite. 14 captures some of that thematic art, but again, 15 reverse 3 was really my favorite there. 16 leave it off at that. 17 Yeah, that one right there. 18 very much. 19 would, please. It So I think Reverse 2 also And I'll Thank you. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 20 Reverse 3, in Kellen, thank you Dr. Christopher Capozzola, if you MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: All right, this is 21 Chris Capozzola. I think again it's difficult to 22 speak to all of the things that this coin has to 23 do and particularly as a circulating coin in 24 2026. 25 some ways the most striking thing that the As I was going through it, I thought in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 109 1 American public understand about the Constitution 2 is the text We the People and the way that that 3 conveys sovereignty and thanks to Donald for the 4 history lesson that goes with that. 5 guided very much by that. So I was 6 I think on the obverses, I will say 7 that as it came up earlier, I now feel that the 8 one I like most is DQ-0-01A which is from the 9 Declaration of Independence, and I'm very much 10 persuaded and in fact then just below the surface 11 of my thinking that it works better for the 12 Constitution than it may actually do for the 13 Declaration itself. 14 certainly, there's a simplicity to CQ-0-01 and 15 that works very well up here, too. But on the other hand, 16 I am trying to find ways to identify 17 things that look like they could only be made in 18 2026 and CQ-0-4 obverse 4 definitely does that. 19 But I think that some of the concerns -- if 20 you're concerned about magic in the previous one, 21 you're definitely going to be concerned about 22 magic in this one and so I do want -- it may take 23 a little too much explaining to the American 24 public for the circulating coins. 25 On the reverse, there are basically www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 110 1 two that I would like to speak to, reverse 7 2 which, of course, we saw in the platinum proof 3 set, I feel like is a wonderful evocation of the 4 text We the People in the font of 1776 image that 5 could only be made in 2026. 6 legible to Americans and that it says 7 Constitution. 8 the quill there and bearing the act of writing. 9 It is immediately It is the Constitution and it has I also was compelled earlier when we 10 saw these a couple of months ago by reverse 04, 11 We the People. 12 would -- it would pair nicely either with the 13 Declaration 3A which was the artist's original 14 intent, but also the Declaration's 12A reverse 15 which was the one with the 250 on it and I think 16 they have a kind of similar aesthetic and that 17 could go well together. 18 That's the hands, and I think it My only thought on that one on reverse 19 4 is I'm not quite sure what the -- I don't know 20 if they're cracks or lines or dots are about that 21 and so maybe one of the Mint staffers could speak 22 to the artist's intention in the word people on 23 that. 24 25 And with that, I'll stop there. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you. Could Joe or somebody else explain what the cracks that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 111 1 Chris pointed out may be? 2 MS. STAFFORD: It is representative of 3 stone, of the carving out of stone, foundational 4 stones, foundational documents. 5 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 6 you very much. 7 please. 8 9 Thank John Saunders, if you would, MEMBER SAUNDERS: John Saunders. All right. Thank you, Peter. On the obverse between 1 and 1A I 10 like 1A better, but again, I think this should be 11 on the reverse of the coin. 12 my first choice for the reverse. 13 see that as an obverse of a coin. 14 much of a traditionalist. 15 I like 02 a lot. I think it would be I just don't Maybe I'm too I liked it earlier. 16 I still do. 17 little stark expression on her face, but that may 18 be okay here. 19 to give it some points, but again, I think it may 20 be going a little bit too far too fast for people 21 understanding like what the hell are you guys 22 doing here putting this on to the Constitution? 23 I like 03 a little bit. It's a I like 2 better and 04, I'm going In the reverses, the Capitol is okay, 24 but I don't particularly like it. 25 tree. I like the oak It's probably my first choice. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I'm not Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 112 1 quite sure the kind of puffy groups of leaves 2 that are shown there are really what an oak tree 3 looks like. 4 trees and make some minor modifications to the 5 leaf clusters there. 6 I suggest the Mint look at some oak 03 I think is very innovative, but I 7 think it barely works on paper. I don't think it 8 would work on a coin and again, I don't think 9 looks anything like an oak tree. I think it 10 looks more like an aspen or something like that, 11 looking at the bottom. 12 here, but it's an interesting design. 13 The hands raised, I like. So I don't see it working The U.S. 14 Constitution with the tree there. 15 earlier, I like the concept, but this looks like 16 a tree that the leaves have been blown off would 17 be more than a sapling. 18 idea that it's a sapling. 19 give it much trouble, much voting. 20 As I said I just don't get the So I'm not going to 06, same comment as I had before. 07, 21 I like. I wouldn't mind doing a series with this 22 -- if we don't do it for the platinum, doing this 23 reverse design for the two quarters. 24 09, hey, I didn't know about George Washington's 25 chair before I came here. 08 is okay. It's a good thing www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 113 1 about being in this, you learn some things that 2 are very interesting, but I think if I don't get 3 it, the general public is not going to get it at 4 all. 5 10, I like everything except it's the 6 flag. I mean if it had a writing, the 7 Constitution, or had the handwriting of the 8 Constitution -- it also looks like it's cutting 9 through something as opposed to writing and 10 making it that way. So I don't like the way the 11 flag is done there at all. 12 and the design of the coin, if it was writing the 13 Constitution, it says We the People or something 14 like that there, it would be great. 15 fine if we don't use that for the other quarter. 16 12 is kind of okay, but I think it's But again, the hand 11 is just 17 not going to be very standout-y, -outish, if it's 18 a coin. 19 coin format particularly well. 20 reverse, I would vote for the obverse 1A if we 21 don't use the one we considered for platinum, my 22 two choices there. 23 24 25 I don't think it translates into the CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Again for the Mike Moran, if you would, please. MEMBER MORAN: Thank you, Peter. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 This Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 114 1 is Mike Moran. 2 write in from the obverse 01 from the Declaration 3 of Independence as an obverse for this one. 4 think it's appropriate because the Constitution 5 is a living document. 6 and this certainly describes it very aptly. 7 I'm going to make a pitch for a I We're still working on it I do like obverse 1 from the package. 8 I'll give it some votes. And I like obverse 2. 9 Let me go back to 1 for one thing that troubles 10 me there. It's the placement of the mottos. 11 think In God We Trust should be in the arc across 12 the top and Liberty's building on the One From 13 Many, E Pluribus Unum, and that is the foundation 14 on which she is building. 15 better than the way the models are arranged now. 16 If we were to choose that, I would certainly make 17 a motion to flip those. 18 I think that says it And on 2, let's look at 2. I like 19 that one, too. 20 certain appeal to me, but I really do like one 21 from the Declaration of Independence probably 22 best of all. 23 I It's traditional and it has a Moving to the reverse, number 2, which 24 is the oak tree, is my first choice. 25 choice is number 7. The second I can live with that. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 115 1 Certainly it's bold. 2 on a quarter and there's one message we want to 3 convey out of all of this it's We the People. 4 that one will get votes from me as well. 5 You could be able to see it I like number 9 with the rising sun on 6 the chair back. 7 make somebody look and learn a little bit about 8 our history. 9 give it some votes and that's it. 10 It grows on me. I get it. Maybe it will Leave it alone. I'll So that concludes my choice on those. 11 12 So CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thanks very much. Donald Scarinci. 13 MEMBER SCARINCI: This is one of the 14 reasons this meeting had to be in person. 15 is a very, very complex portfolio in totality. 16 Obverse, so could I possibly see the pairing, the 17 slide again? 18 This I love -- you know, I -- Kellen, you 19 took 03 from oblivion for me because I wasn't 20 really considering it. 21 -- you know, and I kind of paired 04 with 08. 22 that in the pairings? 23 with? 24 and so I think -- I think, you know, it's kind of 25 -- I see the merits of 01A. I really like 04. No. Yes, I don't like 02. I like Is What did you pair 04 I don't care for 02 01 I discard because www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 116 1 of what's going on with her head. 2 - I just think it's too hideous what it is. 3 is a better version of it and so I think in the 4 obverse it's 01, 03, 04. 5 I just don't 01 In the reverse, I have to say this. 6 I didn't say it last time because nobody 7 expressed an interest in the coin, but I would be 8 a little concerned about 03, reverse 03. 9 again, Emily Damstra did a couple of coins, a This is 10 series of coins for the Royal Canadian Mint with 11 exactly this perspective on trees. 12 those coins actually won a COTY award. 13 little concerned about that. 14 spot on with her design of the Canadian coin. 15 And one of So I'm a And this is really I do like -- I think 08, if we don't 16 use 01 on the obverse, then I think 08 is 17 probably the most telling and I kind of like the 18 pairing of 04 and 08. 19 08 would also go with 03 and I think Kellen's got 20 me thinking about 03. 21 01A are not -- I'm not running to those, is again 22 because visually I think John said it that you 23 kind of want to see -- America's used to seeing 24 more to it on the obverse of a coin and this 25 would be like okay, what's the obverse and what's I kind of like that. But And the only reason 01 and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 117 1 the reverse? Not that it matters, right, but 2 it's an expectation. 3 expectations with this entire portfolio. 4 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 5 thank you very much. 6 would, please. 7 We're shattering All right, Donald, Art Bernstein, if you MEMBER BERNSTEIN: This is Arthur 8 Bernstein. With regard to the obverses. 9 Although Mike Moran and I support different NBA 10 teams, I find myself agreeing with him completely 11 with regard to obverse 1A as a good design. 12 going back to the previous design we saw with the 13 carving situation, I think that would also be a 14 good design for this particular quarter. 15 agreed with his suggestion about switching the 16 phrasing from top to bottom. He also had kind 17 words to say about design 2. I liked that as 18 well. 19 forward. 20 marching forward and that she was holding the 21 document in her hand. 22 But I also I appreciated the look of Liberty walking I liked her good posture as she's With regard to reverses, I think with 23 reverse 1 with the Capitol Building, 24 notwithstanding the three stars of David, I don't 25 think we should be representing one particular www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 118 1 building of one branch of government. 2 would be a mistake to have the Capitol although 3 the others are represented by the stars. 4 I think it And then going a little further on in 5 the reverse choices, Mr. Chairman, I wanted to 6 make a comment about something you said when we 7 were discussing the last series of designs about 8 Independence Hall. 9 know what it was or what its significance was. You wondered if people would I 10 have to tell you, share a personal story. The 11 last time I was in Philadelphia was with this 12 committee when we toured the Mint itself and we 13 had some free time and I was able to tour 14 Independence Hall. 15 was a religious experience. 16 as I stood inside that building and felt what had 17 happened there. 18 know what occurred there, they need to know that 19 and so I would not shy away from the design 20 featuring the Independence Hall building, nor 21 would I shy away from the design -- I saw George 22 Washington's chair up there and I heard the story 23 from the Park Ranger and it brought tears to my 24 eyes. 25 consideration to number 9 as well as to number And I have to say for me it I felt -- I trembled And frankly, if people don't And I would like us to give some www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 119 1 11. Thank you. 2 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 3 thank you very much. 4 comment. 5 please. 6 All right, Art, And thank you also for that Jeanne Stevens-Sollman, if you would, MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Thank you, 7 Mr. Chairman. This is Jeanne Stevens-Sollman. 8 Again, this is an amazing portfolio and as I go 9 through our history which I think the public is 10 needing to know, I think we need to put a lot of 11 information on the coins, but make it simple. 12 And one of the things I enjoy very much doing 13 when I'm out shopping and making cash and 14 collecting coins and so forth, I always open my 15 hand and say to the cashier do you see this coin? 16 Do you know what this means? 17 reaching out to the general public who knows 18 nothing about the coins in their pocket. 19 is a great opportunity to help young folks 20 understand what our history is about. 21 And I feel like I'm So this On that, I would like to talk about 22 obverse number 2 for the Constitution. 23 like this very much because it's just simple and 24 strong and she is walking forward with the torch. 25 She has her information -- the Constitution in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Yes. I Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 120 1 her hand. 2 with the reverse number 4 which is a little more 3 contemporary, but I think it's a strong piece and 4 very understandable. 5 choices. 6 nicely about everything else. 7 much, Mr. Chairman. 8 9 And I think this would pair very well So those are my two I think my colleagues have spoken very So thank you very CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Sam Gelberd, if you wouldn't mind. 10 MEMBER GELBERD: Thank you, Peter. 11 This is Sam Gelberd. 12 people have already said about the obverses, my 13 preference is for obverse number 02. 14 with my preference for the Declaration quarter. 15 I think it's a great metaphor for the Age of 16 Enlightenment. 17 right holding a torch, I like that the date is 18 not -- the dates are not right next to each 19 other, actually using Liberty herself as the 20 delimiter actually works very well, great use of 21 all the space, aesthetically love it that she is 22 holding the document in her hand. 23 well. 24 25 To echo what a lot of It ties in Showing Liberty striding to the It works very Great torch as well. For the reverses, I have to go to reverse 9 ultimately. I think it is a great www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 121 1 story. As I said before in our previous 2 meetings, as a teacher, a history teacher, I 3 think it is a wonderfully teachable moment for a 4 lot of students. 5 with the rising sun on President Washington's 6 chair, not President at that time, of course, so 7 General. But still, it works very, very well. 8 like it. The public may not latch on to it as 9 well as they might with reverses 01A or reverse It's a great optimistic image 10 07. 11 popular with the public. I Reverse 12 I think would also be very 12 As a close second, I do like reverse 13 2, even though it does appear, initially it 14 appeared somewhat juvenile to me, but I just like 15 the overall layout and I do think it works. 16 think it is an aesthetically-pleasing design. 17 does fill the entire space, but it does work from 18 an artistic standpoint and again, having We the 19 People, I think it's a phrase that works better 20 on the reverse of the quarter. 21 imagery that speak more in a metaphor for the 22 obverse. 23 I think works a little bit better for this 24 series. 25 I It I like that So having We the People on the reverse, That's all I needed to add, Peter. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Sam, thank you very www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 122 1 much. Annelisa, if you would, please. 2 MEMBER PURDIE: Thank you, Mr. 3 Chairman. This is Annelisa Purdie. 4 the portfolios we are looking at this was the one 5 that I was the most lukewarm about. I found 6 myself liking elements of the coins versus the 7 designs overall, but there were a few that stood 8 out very well. I know there were a lot of votes 9 for obverse number 2. She's walking. Of all of That's 10 good. 11 inscrutable and again, it's a little more 12 Athena/Hestia versus Lady Liberty. That's what I 13 saw and I kept coming back to this design over 14 and over again. 15 that would be appealing overall to the public. 16 The expression on her face is a little But I do think that's something For design number 3, I love the fact 17 that she's looking directly to the viewer. 18 is something that when turning the coin over in 19 one's hands could also be very appealing. 20 she's left handed. 21 that she's emphasizing the seriousness of her 22 expression, the We the People which is an 23 integral part of the Constitution. 24 25 Yay. This And But I like the fact For number 4, I noticed that the advice was taken about taking We the People out www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 123 1 of her hair which was a point of contention last 2 time. 3 only concern is that the flame does seem a bit 4 more papier-mache than an actual flame itself and 5 I do think that there needs to be some element 6 that emphasizes the Constitution itself. It 7 doesn't necessarily scream Constitution in terms 8 of reference to me, but I love this design. 9 think it was very well rendered. I think this is a very dynamic design. 10 My I For the reverses, I did like reverse 11 1. I think that the statement Towards A More 12 Perfect Union fits well in terms of continuity 13 with We the People in terms of flipping it over. 14 I think this is done very beautifully and it's a 15 constant reminder of what we're striving for. 16 Number 3, that is some beautiful 17 shading on this design. I'm not sure how well 18 this would work on the quarter because of its 19 size and because of the light, considering 20 similar designs that have been done with trees 21 from this perspective. 22 the light coming through the treetops to be 23 misconstrued as shadow somewhat. 24 perspective. 25 down on the ground and looking upward, but again There's a potential for I love the It gives the sense of one laying www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 124 1 not sure how this would work in actual 2 application. 3 beautiful. 4 But the shading itself is For number 5, reverse 5, again, it's 5 the issue with the sun. I love the arch of the 6 tree, but the design of the sun still doesn't 7 match the overall design of the coin and the sun 8 rays look interestingly enough like stripes on 9 the American flag. I'm not sure if I'm the only 10 one who saw that, but that also is something that 11 could be adjusted where the sun could be 12 adjusted. 13 And again number 7, still this is my 14 favorite of the reverses. 15 serviceable. 16 the point does need to be hammered across, We the 17 People, in order to get it to stick. 18 was the one that I liked much more so than 19 reverse 12 which same message, but again, 20 execution with all the negative space. 21 sure how that would work. 22 Thank you very much. 23 It works. It's It's beautifully done and sometimes But that I'm not And that's all for me. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Annelisa, thank you 24 very much. For my comments, I have to admit that 25 I share some of the same concerns that John www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 125 1 Saunders has with the obverse number 1 and 1A 2 which also shares some similarities with the 3 Declaration of Independence in obverse 1. 4 there's something about this design that I find 5 very heavy and very difficult to put my finger on 6 exactly what it is. 7 reminiscent of the seated Liberties and seated 8 Britannia-type coinages from the 19th century 9 which I frankly don't think work particularly 10 And It is to some degree well as obverse designs. 11 So in this sense, I do share the 12 concern that John Saunders has that perhaps this 13 would work better as a reverse than an obverse 14 design. 15 when looking through these portfolios of trying 16 to find a way to illustrate the progression, 17 chronological progression, of the inflection 18 points, starting with the Declaration, living 19 through in 1776, working through the 20 Constitution, 1782 and on to the other inflection 21 points that we'll be looking at this afternoon. 22 And that said, I think that the pairing of 23 obverse 2 in this portfolio with the similar 24 obverse in the Declaration of Independence 25 portfolio that we looked at earlier works well That said, again, I am very concerned www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 126 1 since this depiction of Liberty is quite 2 classical and I think in some ways represents 3 that earlier period. 4 favorite obverse. So this is by far my 5 For the reverse, I am very much drawn 6 to the design of number 9, the chair that we have 7 talked about. 8 beautiful design. 9 I have here is just how the public would react to I find this to be an amazingly The question, of course, that 10 this because it would be very difficult to know 11 immediately what this, this and this would 12 require a tremendous amount of explanation. But 13 as some of my committee members have pointed out, 14 perhaps this is the teachable moment that we are 15 looking for, whether it is a cashier at the 16 grocery store or our child or others. 17 I also do like 7 quite a bit. This is 18 something which I found very attractive in the 19 platinum proof portfolio and I think it would 20 perhaps work well here, but I don't think it 21 would work as well as a pairing with the obverse 22 2. 23 reverse 9, again, because this does -- seems to 24 represent the chronological progression that I 25 feel is important that we find a way to express So my preference would obverse number 2 and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 127 1 in these portfolios, even if there are some 2 reservations about how this would be interpreted, 3 this reverse. 4 All right, so that said I will once 5 again ask Mr. Hunt, if you're still with us, if 6 you have any observations or comments you'd like 7 to make at this time. 8 MR. HUNT: 9 I am still here and I just have one minor point and I think you touched upon 10 it as well and that there is some date confusion 11 here that the anniversary starts in 1776, the 12 Constitution is not in operation until 1789, and 13 that date doesn't appear on the coin anywhere. 14 Maybe that's because of the confusion updates, 15 but it's certainly a historical point to 16 consider. So that's really all I have to offer. 17 Thank you. 18 19 20 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you again, Mr. Hunt. Are there any other observations or 21 comments from the Mint staff at this time? All 22 right, well, hearing none, then the committee 23 will now score the obverse and reverse candidate 24 designs for the 2026 quarter commemorating the 25 U.S. Constitution. And since we are ahead of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 128 1 schedule and will be going to lunch, I will ask 2 the members to please submit the scores to Greg 3 as you are on the way out the door. And again, 4 since we are ahead of schedule, 5 that we return at 12:45 rather than 1:15 p.m. as 6 indicated in the agenda. So we will resume at 7 12:45 following lunch, at which point we will 8 hear the results of the scores. 9 I would suggest (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 10 went off the record at 11:50 a.m. and resumed at 11 12:45 p.m.) 12 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, thank you 13 very much, Jen. 14 that we do have a quorum in the room. 15 item of business this afternoon is to ask Greg 16 Weinman to present the scores 17 18 19 We are back from lunch. MS. WARREN: needs to stop. I see The first Wait, hold on. Sidebar Sorry. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay. The first 20 item of business in returning from lunch is to 21 ask Greg Weinman to present the scores from this 22 morning's session, that includes the 2026 through 23 2028 Platinum Proof coins and the 2026 quarters 24 commemorating the Declaration of Independence and 25 U.S. Constitution. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 129 1 Of course, for the quarters anyway, 2 this is for discussion as we will be making final 3 recommendations tomorrow, but we can certainly 4 keep that notion open for the Platinum Proof as 5 we go forward in a few moments. 6 would, please present the scores. 7 8 MR. WEINMAN: So Greg, if you Can you hear me or do you want me to use the microphone? 9 MS. WARREN: 10 That sounds good. MR. WEINMAN: Good? Okay, excellent. 11 Let's start with Platinum Proof. These might not 12 be as illuminating towards a clear direction as 13 you might like. 14 sorry, this is out of a possible 30 points -- 15 received 16 out of 30. 16 points making it one of a four-way tie for the 17 highest scoring point. Design 01-D-01 received -- I'm 18 (Laughter.) 19 MR. WEINMAN: 01-D-01A received 22 The 01-C-01 received, 20 also, 22 points. 21 01-D -- I'm sorry, 02-D-01 received seven. 22 01A received five points. 23 points. 24 25 01-B-01 received 19 points. 02-C-01 received four 02-B-01 received two points. Moving on to 03. points. 02-D- 03-D-01 received 22 03-C-01 received 22 points. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 03-B-01 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 130 1 received 20 points, thus setting up a virtual 2 tie, if not a literal tie, between sets one and 3 three. 4 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 5 MR. WEINMAN: All right. So, with that in mind, 6 why don't we move on to the Declaration of 7 Independence quarter. 8 9 MEMBER MORAN: better. 10 11 I hope that goes MR. WEINMAN: Just tell me when you're ready. 12 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 13 MR. WEINMAN: Yep, go ahead. We'll start with the 14 obverses. 15 again out of a possible 30 points. 16 seven. 17 actually, the high scoring design among the 18 obverses. 19 Obverse 04 received 15 points. 20 received five points. 21 points. 22 received four points. 23 it's obverse 02 that received the high scoring 24 with 22 out of 30 points. 25 Obverse 01 received eight -- remember, 01A received Obverse 02 received 22 points making it, Obverse 03 received one point. Obverse 05 Obverse 05A received four Obverse 06 received eight points, 06A So, among the obverses, Moving on to the reverses. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Reverse 01 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 131 1 received three points. Reverse 02 received zero 2 points. 3 03A received 17 points. 4 points. 5 Reverse 05 received 14 points. 6 received six points. 7 points. 8 08 received 18 points. 9 points. Reverse 03 received ten points. Reverse Reverse 04 received five Reverse 04A received three points. Reverse 06 Reverse 06A received six Reverse 07 received six points. Reverse Reverse 08A received 15 Reverse 09 received 19 points. Reverse 10 10 received 20 points making it the high scoring 11 design reverse, if not by a lot. 12 received three points. 13 points. Reverse 11 Reverse 12 received five And reverse 12A received eight points. 14 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 15 MR. WEINMAN: Interesting. Moving on to the 16 Constitution quarter. 17 there's a little more clarity here. 18 quarter obverse 01 received ten points, 01A 19 received nine points. 20 points making it the high scoring obverse design. 21 Obverse 03 received nine points. 22 received ten points. 23 At least on the obverse, Constitution Obverse 02 received 23 And obverse 04 Moving on to the reverses. 24 received nine points. 25 points. Reverse 01 Reverse 01A received six Reverse 02 received 14 points. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Reverse Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 132 1 03 received ten points. 2 points. 3 Reverse 06 received two points. 4 received 18 points making it tied for the high 5 scoring reverse design, with 18 points. 6 08 received two points. 7 18 points. 8 Reverse 11 received 12 points. 9 received six points. Reverse 05 received five points. 10 11 Reverse 07 Reverse Reverse 09 also received Reverse 10 received seven points. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: And reverse 12 All right, Greg, thank you very much, I think. 12 (Laughter.) 13 MR. WEINMAN: 14 Reverse 04 received nine Glad to clarify things for you. 15 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Indeed. All right, 16 I think it's best that we first discuss the 2026 17 through 2028 Platinum Proof coins, now that we 18 have the scores, and set aside the quarters for 19 the moment. 20 So we could possibly make a 21 recommendation at this time, as John suggested we 22 do earlier this morning. 23 be open to that, I don't think we necessarily 24 need a motion to do so. 25 perfectly happy to try to come to a And I would certainly Since, again, I would be www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 133 1 recommendation for the 2026 Declaration of 2 Independence reverse -- or obverse design for the 3 Platinum Proof. 4 Again, we are asked -- we've been 5 asked if we could make a recommendation for that 6 2026 coin alone, although if we could perhaps 7 make a recommendation for an entire set, that 8 would be good as well. 9 would like to just open the table for any 10 comments at this time. 11 So with that in mind, I John. MEMBER SAUNDERS: Hi, John Saunders 12 here. 13 kind of got a tie between the first series and 14 the last series, but the last series was also 15 scored high in the quarters. 16 adopting the first coin of the first series as a 17 solid recommendation, with the idea that we would 18 go forward and do the second two in the series, 19 maybe with some minor tweaks for it. 20 I think on the Platinum Proofs that we So I would favor I'd also suggest that we put a couple 21 of rays on the first coin for the sun to make it 22 consistent with the suns that come after it, and 23 that we leave the Series 03 for the quarters. 24 25 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay, so your recommendation then would be that we adopt Set www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 134 1 One with some modifications, is that correct? 2 MEMBER SAUNDERS: Yes. 3 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay, thank you. 4 Mike, I think your hand was raised. 5 MEMBER MORAN: This is Mike Moran, 6 John took a lot out of what I wanted to say. I 7 like the series -- the first one Series One. I 8 feel like that there were a lot -- while there 9 was -- the concept for the following years '27 10 and '28 within the first series was favorably 11 received by the Committee in general, it was only 12 lukewarm and there were criticisms of the 13 preparation of the trees, of the child in the 14 third. 15 the first image and leave the rest of it alone, 16 and let the rest of it flow as we go forward 17 through the years. 18 I think we should stick to just 2026 with CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, Mike, 19 thank you very much. 20 both Mike and John then would support adopting 21 Set One, although with a proviso that we could 22 delay conversation for the 2027 and 2028 design 23 candidates for a later date, so we would then be 24 recommending -- Jeanne, I see your hand is up. 25 So from my understanding, MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Yes. If we Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 135 1 accept Set One and we accept our -- you know, the 2 first one of Set One -- this is Jeanne Stevens- 3 Sollman speaking. 4 keep most of the design of Set One number 02 and 5 03, because that's what we're voting for, with 6 just some, you know, adaptation to what we spoke 7 about the sun. 8 most, I think for me, that we need mostly to 9 change, or to enhance, to match the sun of number I would like to be able to You know. 10 01. 11 do, I'm in favor of that. 12 MS. STAFFORD: 13 I think that's the And if we can do that, if that's what we can Thank you. If I may -- sorry. Dr. Capozzola, you go -- 14 MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: 15 MS. STAFFORD: 16 MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: No, go ahead. No, please, you. Okay. It's really 17 -- this is Chris Capozzola. 18 Capozzola here, I don't know if there's a motion 19 on the table at the time -- 20 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 21 MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: Here we go. Chris No. Okay. But I just 22 want to clarify, if we're talking about Set One, 23 are we talking about D-01A which was the higher 24 vote-getter and which many people spoke in favor 25 of. But once there is a motion, I would want the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 136 1 motion to include that in particular. 2 And I think I can agree with Jeanne 3 that I am, personally, ready to mark the whole 4 set as reviewed and communicate our thoughts 5 about 2027 and 2028, but if the sense of the 6 Committee is that we want to review each of these 7 independently, I defer to them. 8 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 9 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: Art. I would just like 10 to associate myself with Professor Capozzola's 11 remarks. 12 but, in the interest of making everyone happy, if 13 we want to do it in that slightly bifurcated way, 14 that's okay with me as well. 15 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 16 I'm prepared to vote for the whole set Okay, any other -- Kellen, yes, your hand is raised. 17 MEMBER HOARD: At this point -- it 18 might have already kind of been said but I was 19 going to raise the point that, it seems like this 20 is a pretty -- there are a lot of pieces to this 21 motion that is, you know, either the full set or 22 part of it. 23 If we are doing one of the designs and 24 it has in the motion, you know, extra rays for 25 the sun and a revise the thing within the thing, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 137 1 to me it seems like there's a -- and in addition, 2 where there's a unique case where there's designs 3 in the set which are in other portfolios as well, 4 to me it just makes sense to consider it with 5 everything else at the end tomorrow, when we've 6 actually had a chance to look through everything 7 comprehensively. 8 granular details based on our further 9 discussions. 10 And then we can get to the I have no strong feelings either way, 11 I can vote on it now. But it just seems like 12 there's so many moving parts, it might make more 13 sense to just do it all as one thing. 14 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 15 very much, Kellen, for that. 16 MS. STAFFORD: All right, thank you Yeah? So the chief engraver 17 and I were speaking over the break, and this 18 Committee's observations about the sun, about the 19 tree, we could not agree with more. 20 it possible for the chief engraver to give some 21 initial thoughts so that the Committee could 22 understand when the changes 23 the direction, the approach he would use to 24 stylistically ensure that they work across. 25 that all right, Joe? And so, is if this should be www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Is Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 138 1 (Simultaneous speaking.) 2 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 3 Sure, thank you. Joe, please. 4 MR. MENNA: Thank you, April. This is 5 Joseph Menna. 6 consideration of the set, thinking that number 01 7 works beautifully even with no rays on top, 8 because that negative space helps the quill to 9 serve as a framing element. 10 In advance of any further And it's really important. 11 Now -- so the artist worked really 12 hard to repeat the motif of the sun in the second 13 design. 14 the rays on the bottom consistent with the rays 15 in the cloud coincident with the rays on the 16 first coin, making the entire thing a single 17 device at the risk of looking like a flag from 18 World War II. 19 frankly. 20 In doing so, keeping -- in order to keep You know, the rising sun flag, And so, the artist decided to instead 21 use raise scribes to indicate the rays of the 22 sun. 23 could be more consistent with the first version, 24 the sun would be more -- could be more solid 25 indicated with different levels of relief and That could be remedied in a way where it www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 139 1 2 whatever, or texture. So, there's that. The tree that was 3 brought up as a concern, would recommend for 4 future consideration removing a lot of the 5 branches from the tree in the second -- it's 6 growing, it's a growing tree. 7 planted 30 trees in the past two years, I kind of 8 know how this works. 9 their full height, there's a lot of branches You know. I just And even if they reach 10 along the trunk that are still developing. 11 that would make it look less like version 03 got 12 hit by a windstorm and became version 02, which I 13 think was commented on. 14 And And then, again, also the comments 15 about the child on number 03. 16 easily be -- just saying, and all of your 17 concerns, we are -- we're thinking in real-time 18 when the Committee speaks about potential 19 remedies or accommodations. 20 your consideration. 21 Those could very Just -- that's for Thank you. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, Joe, 22 thank you very much. Are there any other 23 comments before we entertain a motion or two? 24 All right. John. 25 MEMBER SAUNDERS: John Saunders again. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 140 1 On the right is -- I agree that there's some 2 value to having consistency. 3 have a different proposal than I do, because I 4 like the rays on the latter two, so I would -- if 5 you wanted to be consistent to have a couple rays 6 on the first one just going up as opposed to -- 7 you know, obviously it can't go with the clouds. 8 But I'm just wondering what the rest of the 9 Committee thinks, whether we should go with no 10 You know. You can rays or all rays? 11 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Jeanne. 12 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Okay, this is 13 exciting. Jeanne Stevens-Sollman speaking. 14 Number 01 is fine, we can just leave that one 15 alone, it's great, and it has been all morning 16 long. 17 second one, 2027. 18 his comments, but if we just take that linea 19 raise and it making them flatter or, you know, 20 make them wider next to the sun as some of the 21 rays are in some of the latter suns, where we 22 could have more of a star burst or something, 23 then I think it would complement number 01. 24 that's my biggest thing, to get rid of these 25 simplistic second grade sun rays. So -- but number -- the next one, the I agree and I thank Joe for Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 141 1 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 2 very much. 3 so. 4 Jeanne, thank you I believe Mike had his hand raised, MEMBER MORAN: Yeah. I'm going to 5 make a motion, we need to get this closed. 6 move that we recommend -- this is Mike Moran, I 7 move that we recommend Design One for 2026 and 8 that we express a preference to the mint for the 9 designs 01 in 2027 and 2028 subject to their 10 I modification. 11 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: 12 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 13 very much. 14 up here on my notes. 15 discussion. 16 I second. All right, thank you Two seconds, let me try to get caught Thank you. All right, Chris, I believe you -- yeah. MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: Chris Capozzola, 17 just a friendly amendment to clarify that the 18 number 01, we are referring to 01-D-01A. 19 MEMBER MORAN: Accepted. 20 MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: 21 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you. All right, thank you 22 very much. So we have a motion on the table 23 then, to recommend for the -- or recommend that 24 obverse D-01A be recommended for 2026, and that 25 for 2027 and 2028 we indicate a preference for www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 142 1 these designs in Set One subject to future 2 modification, which we do not necessarily have to 3 discuss at this point but we can discuss in later 4 years. Is that correct? 5 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: 6 MEMBER MORAN: 7 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: 8 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: John, further MEMBER SAUNDERS: Well, I didn't have 9 10 Yes. Yes. Thank you. discussion? 11 a question, just wanted to make a comment. 12 since the area I collect -- I wanted more 13 valuable coins, it's the fiftieth anniversary of 14 Leopold coming to power. 15 versions, depending on when they were made, and 16 they vary in price from a few thousands of 17 dollars to tens of thousands of dollars, and one 18 that's unique, it probably would bring a half 19 million or more if it was sold. And it's all 20 about how many rays is the sun. So future 21 numismatists -- 22 23 24 25 If -- And there's three CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Yes, exactly. Future collectors, take note. MEMBER SAUNDERS: You know, if you want to make varieties that really -- things www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 143 1 change a little bit on a couple of different dies 2 for the coin, you could really come up with 3 something. 4 5 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, any other discussion on this motion? 6 All right, hearing none, let us vote. 7 All those in favor of this motion, please signify 8 by saying aye or raising your hand. 9 (Chorus of aye.) 10 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 11 All right, well, the motion carries. 12 Any opposed? One down. 13 (Laughter.) 14 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Yes. Okay, let us 15 continue then with some discussion for the 2026 16 quarter commemorating the Declaration of 17 Independence. 18 consider the quarter for 2026 commemorating the 19 U.S. Constitution. 20 remind the members that it is tomorrow that we 21 are hoping to make the recommendation, not today. 22 So at the moment we will just entertain some 23 discussion, before moving on to the other 24 portfolios that we have to review this afternoon. 25 And simultaneously, let's also And again, I do want to So are there any comments then on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 144 1 these two portfolios? 2 Mike. MEMBER MORAN: Thank you, Peter. This 3 is Mike Moran, I happen to like the concept of 4 the two liberties that got the most votes for the 5 obverse of the Constitution and the Declaration. 6 Being 02 on the Declaration and 02 again on the 7 Constitution. 8 enough alone and focus on the reverse in terms of 9 additional discussion. 10 11 I think we ought to leave well CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you very much. Any -- Kellen, yes, I see your hand is raised. 12 MEMBER HOARD: Yeah, I have almost the 13 exact opposite opinion of Mike, respectfully. 14 think, you know, for the -- 15 (Laughter.) 16 MEMBER HOARD: I You know, part of, I 17 think, the tricky is that the liberties, which 18 currently have the highest designs for both, are 19 very much a collector's -- an American 20 collector's choice of liberty. 21 classical designs, they're in old garb, they have 22 old head gear, they have these, you know, kind of 23 old, you know, torches and magic that they're 24 wielding. 25 They're very Like, it -- they are not designs which www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 145 1 I think are relatable to the modern public as 2 depictions of liberty, as depictions of the 3 Declaration or of the Constitution, are 4 appropriate for quarter size. 5 thinking more as collectors than as members of 6 the public seeking to understand thematic 7 designs. I think we're 8 And what I read from the themes that 9 the workgroup came up with, and that the experts 10 came up with, is that we're looking for a 11 moderate interpretation of liberty -- you know, 12 maybe with some, you know, classical elements, 13 but actually what does liberty look like today 14 250 years on, as it represents these historical 15 events. 16 So I really find myself actually quite 17 drawn away from those designs because I simply 18 don't feel that -- you know, the students who are 19 going to be looking at these, or the members of 20 the public who are going to be using them, are 21 going to understand what they represent or what 22 they mean in a 2026 context. 23 context that we're looking back to in terms of 24 visual array and art style. 25 These are an 1800s So I would -- I think that we actually www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 146 1 should spend some more time talking about the 2 obverses here and figure out what's going to be 3 compelling, what are they going to like, what are 4 they going to use, beyond what are they going to 5 collect. Thank you. 6 7 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: very much. 8 9 Kellen, thank you Sam, I see your hand is raised. MEMBER GELBERD: Hi, Peter. This is Sam Gelberd, I just want to say, I do think there 10 is a good compromise with these two designs, 11 between the classic -- you know, with the images 12 of Liberty. 13 version when you consider the font or the type 14 style of the dates and the motto, in God we 15 trust. 16 public latch onto it and I think they'd be 17 receptive to it. 18 But I do think it is an updated And I think that is enough to help the And truth be told, I think it's more 19 of coin collectors or numismatists that are 20 probably spending more coins than the general 21 public that -- I mean, the quarter, of course, is 22 a very popular, widely used denomination. 23 think it might actually serve to really get 24 people more into the hobby a little bit, I think 25 we have a great opportunity here by reintroducing www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 But I Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 147 1 classical designs like this. 2 So I understand what Kellen was 3 saying, but I do think there's enough 4 modernization with the font and type style. 5 pluribus unum is also a bit more modern, but -- I 6 think it works. 7 esteemed colleague, Mr. Hoard. 8 9 10 portfolios? 11 12 I just had to disagree with my CHAIR VAN ALFEN: very much, Sam. All right, thank you Any other comments on these Jeanne, your hand is raised. MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Is the -- well, okay, I'll try -- 13 (Simultaneous speaking.) 14 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 15 E Jeanne, there's a microphone coming your way. 16 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Okay, thank 17 you. 18 Kellen, if I can address your concerns. 19 made number 01A to be more modern, then I think 20 her dress -- and this really bothers me, I didn't 21 say anything this morning -- but truly, how many 22 Liberty women-type people are going to be laying 23 bricks with a dress on. 24 25 Jeanne Stevens-Sollman here, I think, If we This -- if you want to make this contemporary, let's put her in overalls. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 You Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 148 1 know. Make it really special so that young 2 people will identify with this piece. 3 not going to think that a construction worker, 4 whatever she's constructing, is going to be 5 dressed like this. 6 and why I didn't say anything earlier. 7 you. 8 9 This is troublesome to me, CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Any other comments? 10 They're Thank Thank you, Jeanne. Oh, Kellen, yes. MEMBER HOARD: Yeah, I don't even need 11 to make this, you know, a two-sided thing. 12 Again, with all due respect to Sam and Jeanne, I 13 think this is exactly the mind set as we say, 14 we're going to recognize it's a modern coin 15 because the typeface is modern. 16 thinking through how the public is engaging with, 17 with their coins. 18 This is not You know, when you see the, you know, 19 the CNN headline, or whatever, saying, hey, you 20 know, this is -- every coin is different now. 21 Surprise. 22 the typeface as much as it's going to be about 23 who is this, you know, sorceress on the coin. 24 You know, and similar things with, with, you 25 know, even clothing. You know, it's not going to be about www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 149 1 Which I think, actually, 1A was one of 2 the higher scoring ones. 3 these are minor details relative to who is 4 actually the person that is now in George 5 Washington's place? 6 and how they're connected to the theme, which is 7 going to be what people are looking at. 8 very broad element. 9 But, you know, this is, And is it clear who they are So, a So, you know, again, we can talk more 10 about this. But I think, you know, when we get 11 sober it will be, well, how is the public going 12 to take this at first glance, in the news 13 headlines, when they're looking at these coins? 14 That's all I have to say. 15 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 16 17 Thank you. Yeah, John, your hand is raised. MEMBER SAUNDERS: John Saunders. I 18 actually have a motion that we, that we -- And 19 I'm following Mike. 20 but I agree, despite what Kellen said, that my 21 motion is that we adopt the two Liberties, as 22 Mike had said, for the obverse design, but that 23 we re-score the reverse for two reasons. 24 25 He followed me last time, One, we add the two, first two obverse designs as possible reverse designs for the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 150 1 scoring. 2 And, secondly, we now know that the 3 RO5 excuse me, RO7 is not going to be on the 4 platinum, so it might change people's opinions. 5 6 So, I move we vote on the obverse design and we re-score the reverse. 7 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: I would prefer that 8 we wait until tomorrow to make motions on the 9 obverse and reverse designs for the quarter 10 simply because I think it would be better for us 11 and more beneficial to be able to see all of the 12 quarters together, and to be thinking about the 13 way that these five inflection point quarters' 14 obverse and reverse designs work together as a 15 group. 16 Which, if we were to make a decision 17 for recommendation at this point, might hinder 18 our ability to do that tomorrow. 19 20 So, if you're willing to wait until tomorrow to 21 MEMBER SAUNDERS: Sure. 22 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: -- make a similar 23 motion, I'd certainly prefer to do that. 24 So, thank you very much. 25 Any? Yeah, yeah, Mike, please. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 151 1 2 MEMBER MORAN: Thank you, Peter. This is Mike Moran. 3 I think we do have a sense of this 4 committee as to where the majority of us are on 5 these two obverses. 6 discuss the reverses a little bit. 7 8 I think we really ought to And I'll start it by talking about the chair in the Constitution. 9 When I saw this back in July, or 10 whenever it first came up, I thought, nope, not 11 going to work. 12 Not going to work. And the more I thought about it, it is 13 consistently growing on me. 14 surprised how many people do know this story. 15 And it's a good design. 16 at. 17 18 19 I think you'd be It's pleasing to look It will show up well on a quarter. And I don't know why, other than just because, I like it. And the other one I want to go back to 20 is the Fugio cent. 21 the, really, I think that's in the Declaration of 22 Independence, or is it the -- Okay. 23 24 25 Again, I think this is on How many points? Twenty. Not bad. I'll leave it at that. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Mike. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 152 1 Any other comments? 2 All right. 3 That said, I think we should move on to our next portfolio. 4 We will now consider the obverse and 5 reverse kind of designs for the 2026 quarter, 6 Number 3, abolitionism, which April Stafford and 7 Russ Evans will now present. 8 So, April, if you would, please. 9 MS. STAFFORD: 10 Yes. Thank you so much. 11 If it's all right, I'll give a brief 12 introduction to the final three 13 Semiquincentennial quarters. 14 time the committee is seeing these designs. 15 This is the first We now turn to the final three 16 Semiquincentennial quarters representing 17 inflection points in our nation's history. 18 the first two quarters examine the establishment 19 of our founding principles, the Abolitionism, 20 Suffrage, and Civil Rights quarters explore how 21 these principles were revisited, reasserted, and 22 reaffirmed in a way that expanded liberty in 23 America, and collectively moved us forward as a 24 country. 25 While As a reminder, in following the design www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 153 1 process approved by the Secretary of the Treasury 2 in October of 2022, the Mint engaged with a team 3 of federal advisors and solicited feedback from 4 the public regarding themes and concepts for 5 these circulating coins. 6 Both the federal advisors and the 7 public expressed strong interest in seeing 8 depictions of liberty and historic figures, 9 outside of presidents, included on the coins. 10 Traditional depictions of Liberty are 11 featured on the quarters you have just reviewed. 12 Whereas, obverses for the next three quarters 13 comport with the recommendation that the Mint 14 include historic figures in this commemoration. 15 These depictions of historic Americans 16 are portraits of Liberty in action, engaged in 17 the process of realizing a more perfect Union. 18 The Abolitionism quarter obverse will 19 feature Frederick Douglass, a key leader in the 20 abolitionist movement and one of our nation's 21 most respected statesman. 22 presidents of the United States have 23 traditionally been featured, Douglass' inclusion 24 expands recognition of our country's significant 25 national political figures. In a place where www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 154 1 The Suffrage quarter presents Liberty 2 as a suffragist, looking beyond classical 3 representations and, instead, grounding Liberty 4 in a specific time and place in our nation's 5 history. 6 woman fighting for the right to vote. Liberty personified as an American 7 The Civil Rights quarter features 6- 8 year-old Ruby Bridges. Once a historic figure as 9 the first Black child to desegregate her all 10 White school, Ruby Bridges also represents the 11 Civil Rights Movement in America, the 12 perseverance of its champions, and the pursuit of 13 liberty and justice for all. 14 The featuring a child on a circulating 15 coin's obverse is unexpected. 16 the weighty responsibility we have to future 17 generations. 18 person on a coin is unconventional, doing so 19 emphasizes that our history is not so distant, 20 and that our past very clearly connects to our 21 present. 22 It will underscore And though including a living Taken together, the five quarters tell 23 the story of liberty in America, serve to 24 illustrate the expansion of our hard-earned 25 liberties, and exemplify what is required of its www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 155 1 people when we face great obstacles. 2 The common reverse -- the common 3 required obverse inscription, "E pluribus unum," 4 features prominently in each design, challenging 5 the viewer to consider what "out of many, one" 6 means to Americans on the 250th Anniversary of 7 our founding. 8 9 10 Moving on to the Abolitionism quarter candidate designs, some background on abolitionism. 11 Abolitionism encapsulates the paradox 12 of America during slavery when a nation 13 proclaiming ideals of liberty, equality, and 14 justice for all, actively practiced the trade and 15 enslavement of people. 16 African Americans in colonial North 17 America, what would become the United States, 18 sowed seeds of the Abolitionism Movement by 19 fighting individual cases, rebelling through 20 sortings, or issuing pamphlets and petitions. 21 Calls for the end of slavery were also 22 notably made by the Quakers, who were among the 23 earliest to protest the slave trade in the United 24 States. 25 In 1833, a group of U.S. citizens met www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 156 1 in Pennsylvania and formed the American Anti- 2 Slavery Society. 3 Britain outlawed slavery, though the inhumane and 4 profitable legalized system of human bondage 5 continued in the United States. 6 It was the same year that During the Antebellum Period, an 7 interracial coalition of Abolitionists formed to 8 vigorously fights against slavery and demand that 9 the nation live up to its championed ideals of 10 liberty and freedom for all. Whether through 11 protests, the written word, oration, or public 12 gatherings, the Abolitionist Movement encompassed 13 the work of thousands of Americans whose efforts 14 to abolish slavery culminated in the ratification 15 of the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution in 16 1865. 17 Some background on Frederick Douglass. 18 Born enslaved on the Eastern Shore of 19 Maryland in 1818, Frederick Douglass escaped to 20 freedom in 1838. 21 Massachusetts, where in 1841 he delivered a 22 powerful speech before the American Anti-Slavery 23 Society, and was invited to serve as an agent. He ultimately made his way to 24 He worked alongside William Lloyd 25 Garrison, working on The Liberator newspaper. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 157 1 Douglass wrote and published his autobiography in 2 1845, which detailed his personal insight on the 3 brutality of slavery. 4 His work directly engaged audiences on 5 the question as to whether the nation was 6 fulfilling its stated ideals. 7 public addresses, including the well-known speech 8 he delivered on July 4th, 1852, now known as 9 "What to the Slave is the Fourth of July?" 10 He often delivered Even after the Emancipation 11 Proclamation and ratification of the 13th 12 Amendment brought an end to slavery in the 13 nation, Douglass continued to fight for social 14 reform. 15 powerful oratory and writing, Frederick Douglass 16 emerged as one of the most important leaders in 17 our country's history. 18 Through his fierce advocacy and his He's often quoted in the context of 19 discussions about the development of our nation, 20 the paradox of liberty, the importance of 21 abolition, and the meaning of freedom for all. 22 Douglass stands as an example that 23 America was and is capable of change, encouraging 24 Americans to continue to strive towards its self- 25 professed ideals. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 158 1 Obverse designs depict Frederick 2 Douglass. 3 unum," "In God We Trust," and "1776 through 4 2026." 5 Inscriptions include "E pluribus Reverse designs are emblematic of the 6 abolition of slavery in the United States of 7 America. 8 States of America," "Quarter Dollar," and 9 "Abolitionism." 10 Inscriptions include "Liberty," "United If it's all right, Mr. Chair, I will 11 go through the candidate designs and then throw 12 to our stakeholders to see if they have anything 13 to say. 14 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 15 MS. STAFFORD: 16 17 Please do. So, we'll move through the obverse designs first. Obverse 1, 2, and 2A depict a resolute 18 Frederick Douglass in profile, his countenance, 19 etched with the profound depth of his lived 20 experiences and his unyielding gaze, reflect the 21 strength of his convictions and his relentless 22 pursuit of justice. 23 work and of abolitionism, Douglass strived to 24 hold the country accountable to its founding 25 principles, and tirelessly worked to extend the Reflective of his life's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 159 1 promise to all. 2 Obverse 3 illustrates how Douglass 3 ignited the abolitionist cause, transforming his 4 pursuit of personal freedom into national 5 emancipation. 6 On the left he is depicted as a young 7 enslaved boy teaching himself to read by 8 candlelight under threat of discovery. 9 In the center Douglass is pictured as 10 a distinguished orator. The sun behind him casts 11 light on the Capitol Building, mirroring the 12 candle-lit determination of his youth. 13 Obverses 4 and 4A depict Frederick 14 Douglass delivering a powerful speech, evoking 15 one of his most famous, "What to the Slave is the 16 Fourth of July"? 17 motion, his posture and expression embodying both 18 his strength as an orator and the moral force of 19 his cause. 20 The image captures Douglass in Design 4, in Design 4, enraptured 21 audiences outlined in silhouette representing all 22 abolitionists whose collective labors have fueled 23 this momentous social movement. 24 25 Obverse 5 depicts Frederick Douglass as an elder statements, his dignified, yet www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 160 1 weathered, features a testament to his fight for 2 abolition. 3 hard-won progress towards freedom, and inspiring 4 future generations to continue the arduous, yet 5 essential, fight for justice for all. 6 He's depicted older, representing the And, finally, Obverse 6 depicts a 7 profile view of Frederick Douglass marrying Laura 8 Gardin Fraser's bust of George Washington on the 9 American Women Quarter's obverse. This parallel 10 acknowledges Douglass as a founding father of a 11 more just America, one who reaffirmed our 12 founding principles through civic action and to 13 collectively move our nation forward. 14 Moving on to reverse designs. 15 Reverse 1. Reverse 1 symbolizes the 16 journey from enslavement to freedom through 17 abolition. 18 inscription "Abolitionism," reflecting the cruel 19 reality of slavery that the abolitionists 20 confronted, an unflinching acknowledgment of its 21 injustice, and the commitment to eradicating it. 22 A shackled hand points down at the Opposite, a hand breaking free of its 23 shackles reaches upward, representing the end of 24 slavery and the true embodiment of the 25 inscription "Liberty" that encircles it. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 161 1 Reverses 2 and 2A demonstrate how 2 civic action shattered the institution of slavery 3 in the United States. 4 the hands vividly portray the struggle for 5 abolition. 6 The dynamic postures of The sunburst emerges from behind the 7 broken links, symbolizing the dawn of this new 8 era of emancipation. 9 Reverse 3 and 3A depict a man raising 10 Liberty's torch, symbolizing the founding ideals 11 of the nation and asserting his right to the 12 freedoms they represent. 13 support, embodying the collective strength of the 14 Abolitionist Movement. 15 Others' hands offer In Design 3 his gaze is fixed on the 16 Capitol Building, a monument to American 17 governance. 18 his hard-fought freedom codified into law, 19 reflecting back at him a nation that upholds its 20 promise of liberty for all. 21 At its threshold he demands justice, Reverse 4 captures Abolitionism as a 22 fierce battle. The shackle, large and ominous, 23 carries the crushing weight of generations 24 trapped in systemic oppression. 25 pivotal movement we witness the triumph of the Yet, in this www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 162 1 human spirit. 2 resist, illustrating at once the tiring struggle 3 for Abolitionism, and the steadfast determination 4 of those fighting for it. 5 The figure strains every muscle to Reverse 5 is inspired by early 6 depictions of the Liberty Bell. 7 was adopted as a symbol of their cause by the 8 Abolitionists in the 1830s, a deliberate 9 connection to America's foundational promise of 10 The Liberty Bell freedom. 11 A variation of its text is included as 12 an inscription: 13 Inhabitants of the Land." 14 the struggle for freedom was a struggle to 15 realize the full meaning of "liberty for all." 16 "Proclaim Liberty Unto All the And is a reminder that Reverse 6 depicts a stylized fist 17 symbolizing the collective strength and shared 18 purpose of those who fought for abolitionism. 19 broken chain encircles the design, representing 20 the successful shattering of the American 21 institution of slavery. 22 A Reverses 7, 7A, and 7B present a 23 powerful allegory for the abolition of slavery in 24 America. 25 representing the arduous climb from slavery to Human figures ascend stone stairs, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 163 1 emancipation. 2 form the moral foundation of this ascent, and 3 reflect our nation's core principles: 4 are created equal," from the Declaration of 5 Independence, and the "progress of human 6 liberty," from one of Frederick Douglass' 7 speeches. 8 9 10 The stairs bear inscriptions that "all men The sun's rays light their way, symbolizing the bright promise of true liberty for all. 11 We are so thrilled to have with us 12 today our stakeholders who worked with us on this 13 portfolio. 14 15 First, Ken Morris, who is the great, great, great grandson of Frederick Douglass. 16 Is Ken with us? 17 Hi. 18 MR. MORRIS: 19 22 Thank you very much for having me. 20 21 I am here. MS. STAFFORD: Thank you for joining us. Would you like to say a few words to 23 the committee and, in particular, speak to the 24 portfolio of obverse designs that depict 25 Frederick Douglass? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 164 1 2 MR. MORRIS: I'd be happy to. Thank you. 3 And as you introduced me, I am the 4 great-great-great grandson of Frederick Douglass. 5 I'm also President and Co-founder of our family 6 organization, Frederick Douglass Family 7 Initiatives. 8 9 10 And on behalf of the family of Frederick Douglass, thank you for inviting us to be a part of this committee and selection 11 MS. STAFFORD: 12 Okay. 13 Thank you. And you can certainly call on Mr. Morris as the discussion goes on. 14 I would also share that we have a very 15 key contributor to this portfolio, as well as the 16 other, another quarter portfolio, Mary Elliott, 17 who is the curator of the National Museum of 18 African American History and Culture. 19 Mary, are you with us? 20 Thank you for joining us. 21 22 I believe you want to MS. ELLIOTT: Hi, everyone. Yes. 23 It's nice to see everyone gathered today. 24 it's my honor to be, have been invited to be part 25 of this very important effort. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 165 1 And I just want to congratulate the 2 team at the U.S. Mint who really have been doing 3 this honorable work. 4 So, thank you for allowing me to be 5 part of this. And I'm really looking forward to 6 your discussion because this is a very exciting 7 opportunity. 8 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you so much. 9 So, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Morris and Ms. 10 Elliott are here to engage in any questions that 11 you have about a particular design or in general 12 this afternoon. 13 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you. 14 Mr. Morris, it's wonderful to have you 15 here with us this afternoon. And as we proceed 16 with our discussion if any of the committee 17 members have any questions for you, I'm sure that 18 they will address you. 19 So, before we begin our discussion, 20 are there any technical or legal questions from 21 the committee about this program or these designs 22 for the 2026 quarter commemorating Abolitionism? 23 Art, I see your hand is raised. 24 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: 25 Yes, please. is Art Bernstein. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 This Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 166 1 2 I have not one but two technical questions. 3 The first relates to design Obverse 4 4 and 4A. There is something on Frederick 5 Douglass' waist on one side but not the other. 6 couldn't figure out what that is. 7 I It's on his right but it's not on -- 8 I couldn't tell if it was a suspender, or a 9 watch, or? 10 MEMBER MORAN: No, that's a watch fob. 11 MS. STAFFORD: We will check the 12 source from the artist. 13 that's correct. 14 so we will check that for you. 15 16 But, yes, we believe It's taken from source imagery, MEMBER MORAN: Thank you. They often held a watch like this. 17 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: And then my second 18 question, there are two, there's one obverse and 19 one reverse that feature -- not feature but 20 include the U.S. Capitol Building. 21 wondered from an historical standpoint if the 22 dome was at that stage in Frederick Douglass' 23 lifetime? 24 25 And I I know it was being built during the Civil War. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 167 1 MS. STAFFORD: 2 well. I believe so. 3 double check that. We will confirm that as But we will absolutely 4 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: 5 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 6 Thank Any other questions or comments from the committee? 9 10 All right. you, Art. 7 8 Thank you. All right. Well, hearing none and seeing none, let us begin our consideration. 11 And, again, I would like to remind the 12 members of the committee to please keep your 13 comments to 5 minutes or less, and to identify 14 yourself for the record prior to speaking. 15 Let's begin with Donald Scarinci. 16 MEMBER SCARINCI: So, the three 17 obverse designs or four obverse designs that I 18 like the most, keeping in mind that it is the 19 quarter planchet, and really the only one I think 20 would be too busy would be 3, Obverse 3 for the 21 quarter planchet, the others would work. 22 But I like, you know, on the smaller 23 planchet I like the bigger portraits. 24 know, 1, Obverse 1, Obverse 2, Obverse 5, Obverse 25 6. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So, you Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 168 1 And I particularly like Obverse 1 and 2 6 as a depiction. 3 important to pair correctly with the reverse. 4 So, so essentially, the -- if we go with, if we 5 were to go with, on the reverse designs, you 6 know, I think Obverse 1 is a very powerful 7 design. 8 it says it in a very powerful way. 9 And this is going to be It makes it, it says it, you know, and You know, kind of more so, and I think 10 it's because of the border, you know. 11 more so than 2 and 2A, you know, which I think 12 are also, are also nice depictions. 13 But even I, you know, I don't, you know, I 14 don't care for, you know, Reverse 4. 15 care for Liberty Bell here in this particular 16 instance for Reverse 6. 17 I don't The 7A is, is, as a reverse, I like 18 7A. And, again, I think, unfortunately, these 19 are the words in the Constitution, you know, this 20 is the language, right, that's, you know, in the 21 Declaration that all "men" are created equal. 22 You know, but here's, here's, you know, 7A. 23 I think avoiding that, as Kellen pointed out in a 24 different design, I think, I think we should, if 25 we could avoid it, we should avoid it. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So, So, so Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 169 1 that gives you 7A. 2 You know, I just don't know that -- 3 and the only concern I have about -- not the only 4 concern, but a concern that I have about, about 5 7A is, you know, the progress of human liberty 6 came at an extraordinary cost to certain groups 7 and, certainly, to, you know, African Americans 8 and women as well. 9 And so, you know, I kind of thing 7A 10 almost makes -- it's just not as in-your-face. 11 It doesn't -- it's too sanitized, you know. 12 think, I think that's, that's what I like about 13 the chains. 14 Reverse 1. 15 pretty raw and pretty powerful. I You know, you know, particularly Reverse 1 is not sanitized. It's 16 So, I think, you know, you know I 17 think right now, and I'm anxious to hear what 18 everybody says, you know, I kind of like the 19 pairing of Obverse 1 with Reverse 1. 20 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 21 John Saunders, if you would, please. 22 MEMBER SAUNDERS: 23 24 25 Thank you very much. Thank you, Peter. John Saunders here. Just speaking of the obverse, I agree with -- not the favorite, but I like 6, 7, or 7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 170 1 out of the 8 presented. 2 I didn't like 03 because I didn't get 3 that that was the young Frederick Douglass there 4 until April told us what it was or who it was. 5 And I think it's a bit too busy. 6 I like all the others. I think my 7 favorite is 4A. 8 in 4 itself behind Frederick. 9 to show that other people were supporting him and 10 he wasn't alone. 11 sort of design. 12 have 4A. 13 14 15 I don't really like the profiles I understand it's But I, I just don't like that I think it's a lot cleaner to While that's said, I could live with the other obverses. In terms of reverse, I was a little 16 disappointed we don't have any of the reverse 17 designs based on the anti-slavery image that was 18 depicted on the U.S. Hard Times Token and 19 numerous other Bush tokens and other tokens of 20 the era where they have the kneeling slave with 21 "Am I not a man and a brother?" 22 that slogan on the back would be very nice, maybe 23 even paired with -- people who like that design - 24 - pair it with the others. 25 I think that But I would really like to have seen www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 171 1 something based on, on that. 2 abolitionists. 3 time. It was used by the It was kind of the symbol of the And it was, as such, I like it a lot. 4 I'm kind of a classics guy anyway. 5 Assuming we don't have that, I like 6 the Liberty Bell but I'm not sure if Liberty Bell 7 is, well, it's more associated with, you know, 8 revolution and so forth than anti-slavery. 9 I don't particularly like the ones 10 with the broken chains. 11 symbolic but I don't particularly like the 12 design. 13 14 15 16 17 I understand it's I don't like the guy on 3 and 4 particularly. I agree with Donald, 7 and 7A, I kind of like 7 better. And I have kind of a radical 18 suggestion that rather than do -- we do 7A, 19 rather than say "all men are created equal," 20 which is the quote, we change the quote and we 21 say "all people are created equal." 22 that that might be -- raise a bunch of eyebrows 23 and call a bunch of attention to it. 24 25 And I think So, that's my thought if we can't do "All men," or "Am I not a man and a brother?" www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 172 1 2 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: John, thank you very much for that. 3 Kellen Hoard, if you would, please. 4 MEMBER HOARD: 5 This is Kellen Hoard. 6 1 is a powerful coin. 7 to, like, take a minute. 8 9 Absolutely. Thank you. To me Obverse When I first saw it I had You know, talk about a resolute, striking, exciting design, talk about an 10 unapologetic coin which, you know, recognizes the 11 absence of Black people on the obverse of our 12 circulating coins, and offers this striking 13 example. 14 You know, I talked before of visual 15 continuity. 16 know, this left-facing bust that emulates our 17 past coins and revitalizes it. 18 replacing a slaveholder with a former slave on 19 equal stature, you know, taking advantage that 20 small planchet and making him big on it, the 21 thematic clarity. 22 And we see it here with this, you You know, I mean, Frederick Douglass' reference 23 is bold. And other designs are trying to be less 24 so: 25 bust which is how we elevate the most important he is smaller, more diminished. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Unlike this Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 173 1 people. 2 And this is now an important 3 conversation in our country to see Frederick 4 Douglass depicted in this way. 5 I'll be giving it full marks. 6 It's dynamic. For reverses, I found 2 and 2A to be 7 quite compelling. 8 theme and well paired to Obverse 1. 9 10 Explicitly in line with our Reverse 7 was also good to me. I'm sorry, 7A that is, yeah. 11 And I like that it uses a Douglass 12 quote which I think will start good discussion in 13 classes across the U.S. 14 The option with "all men are created 15 equal" is kind of a laughably bad option. That 16 was used for so long to exclude people like 17 Frederick Douglass for decades. 18 immediately noticeable, I think, in our current 19 environment. 20 Douglass quote, whether or not we have multiple 21 people on there. And that will be So, we have to go with, with the 22 So, that's it for me. 23 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 24 Jeanne Stevens-Sollman, if you would, 25 Thank you. Thank you. please. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 174 1 2 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 3 This is Jeanne Stevens-Sollman. 4 I agree with Kellen about, and also 5 Donald about the portrait of Frederick Douglass. 6 Number 1 is very powerful. 7 omitted. 8 portrait, somewhere in the design we should put 9 his name. 10 11 However, his name is And I think if we have him and use that I think it's on every other one. on the one that we seem to like, it's not. 12 So, my favorite is Number 4 because of 13 the background. 14 speaking to people, and people are supporting 15 him. 16 I like the fact that he is I think this is really important. However, you know, his portrait is 17 diminished here. 18 me between Number 1 and Number 4. 19 And So it's a, it's a toss-up for For the reverse, the Reverse Number 1, 20 yes, is very strong. 21 obverse we have, this might be the one we need. 22 And I think whatever I also think that Reverse 2A is also 23 very powerful. I think we need the broken chains 24 -- 2A, I'm sorry. 25 oh, on my paper here that's 3A. What am I looking at? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 That's, Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 175 1 2 Can we go back. please. That one, yes, 2A, Thank you. 3 I think the broken chains symbolize 4 slavery, the uprise, the uprising of slavery and 5 the abolitionism that we are trying to portray. 6 And in 3 and 3A I sort of don't think 7 it's credible for me to see these hands pushing 8 up this arm. I just don't think that that's a 9 good design. And maybe the reason for it is 10 positive, but I don't like this one. 11 12 So, my vote goes to 2A or Number 1 reverse. 13 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 14 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 15 Sam Gelberd. 17 MEMBER GELBERD: 19 Thank you very much. 16 18 Okay. Thank you, Peter. This is Sam Gelberd. I do echo a lot of the same sentiment 20 for the obverses. 21 think the only one that wouldn't really work is 22 Obverse 3, for reasons stated earlier. 23 bit too busy, maybe a bit muddled with the 24 denomination like a quarter. 25 I do think of the obverses I It's a That being said, Obverses 1 and 5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 176 1 ought to show an older Frederick Douglass. 2 be remiss if I didn't mention that we have had, 3 we have seen Frederick Douglass on our America 4 the Beautiful quarter in 2017 for our Washington, 5 D.C. National Historic Site. 6 I'd But that being said, when I was a 7 youth in school learning about Frederick 8 Douglass, Obverse 5, that image just came right 9 to mind. It just brought me right back to my 10 childhood and learning about the Abolitionism 11 Movement for the first time. 12 seeing -- I could be fine with Obverse 1 or 5. 13 Ultimately, I landed on Obverse 2. 14 The main reason for this is because it shows a 15 younger Frederick Douglass without a full beard. 16 I think it just shows a little bit more youth. 17 think it's a little bit better for something like 18 an Abolitionism quarter. 19 So, I do like I That being said, Obverses 4 and 4A 20 also show that in action 21 I just think Obverse 2 above all the others is my 22 favorite. 23 show that action. But With the reverses, not really a fan of 24 Reverse 3, 3A, or 4. And for reasons mentioned 25 previously, Reverse 7, I think having "all men www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 177 1 are created equal," that it's a bit, it's a bit 2 too problematic from a historical standpoint. 3 And certainly we could change it. 4 don't know if that's going to work if we just 5 change it to "all people are created equal." 6 I That being said, I really gravitated 7 to Reverses 3 -- I'm sorry, Reverse 2 and 2A, 8 ultimately landing on 2A just because of the 9 layout. And these are both very, very similar. 10 I just like the way the wording is, the 11 orientation of the hands with the chain. 12 I'd be okay with Reverse 2, but I just 13 think 02A is a little bit more what we're looking 14 for. 15 Reverse 6 is my second favorite as 16 well. I think very powerful image. 17 public would not mistake what the imagery is 18 trying to convey. 19 20 So, that being said, Peter, those are my comments. 21 22 The American CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Sam, thank you very much. 23 Mike Moran, if you would, please. 24 MEMBER MORAN: 25 is Mike. Thank you, Peter. Peter, this is Mike Moran. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 This Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 178 1 I'm going to second Donald's 2 recommendations. 3 1. 4 Let's go to the Obverse Number That is as powerful a portrait as I 5 have seen in my time here on the CCAC. 6 excellent. 7 grayscale here, it still is going to coin 8 beautifully on a quarter. 9 instantly recognizable. 10 It's Even though there's artful use of It's going to be It is iconic. And it is a time in terms of, I think 11 the amendment was passed in 1865 or '66, that 12 abolished slavery. 13 when slavery was abolished. 14 That is what he looked like So, it is correct. One problem we 15 have with it is that it doesn't have his name on 16 the obverse, and it should. 17 them worry about how they deal with that. 18 not going to do it. 19 I'm going to let I'm I do like 6, the idea of the this 20 quarter. But it's too much like a quarter, and 21 too many people would pass over it and just 22 think, look, it's Washington with a new hairdo. 23 So, I'm, going with 1. 24 Honestly, you'd be surprised what 25 people think when they pick up a quarter and look www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 179 1 at it. 2 Let's go to the reverse, and again to 3 Number 1. 4 but this. I don't think there's any other choice 5 I've seen a lot of broken chains and 6 broken manacles. This one is really powerful. 7 Manacled hand points down. 8 fist pointing up. 9 Can't miss it. Freed hand is in a The symbolism here is extreme. It's simple, not crowded, good 10 negative space here. I don't think we can get 11 any better than Number 1 on both the obverse and 12 reverse. 13 Thank you. 14 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 15 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: 16 With regard to the obverse, I agree 18 with what Mike just said. 19 the same high school as him. 20 recognize is that image. 21 one we used. 22 24 25 This is Arthur Bernstein. 17 23 All right, next. I must have gone to The image that I And I think that is the So, I would be in strong support of Obverse 1. With regard to the reverses, I think I shied away from those designs which show www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 180 1 shackles and change 2 are more a symbol of imprisonment and not 3 slavery. 4 5 chains, because to me they And so I, I went with the step designs. We had 7, 7A, and 7B. 6 I preferred 7 because it included 7 several people, male and female. 8 phrasing on 7A. 9 use those words from 7A on the steps of 7. 10 11 But I like the And so, I wondered if we might And I offer that as something for us to consider. 12 The last thing I wanted to mention, 13 and I realize on this committee I tend to be 14 maybe a little more technical than some others, 15 asking about buildings and watch fobs, right? 16 I was troubled by the -- this is a 17 semantic issue -- "abolitionism" versus 18 "abolition." 19 and looked up the two words. 20 21 22 23 24 25 So, I found a dusty old dictionary "Abolitionism" is the belief that slavery should be abolished. And "abolition" is the organized effort to end the practice of slavery. So, to me, I think that the better word is "abolition" rather than "abolitionism." www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 181 1 And I don't know if we can play with 2 that word or not, but to me "abolitionism" was 3 confusing and it seemed like the wrong word. 4 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Art. 5 In fact, I welcome the Mint to address 6 the choice of words here, "abolitionism" versus 7 "abolition." 8 9 MS. STAFFORD: Yes. And I believe after all the members have commented, we might go 10 to our stakeholders. 11 ask Mary Elliott to speak to that at that time. 12 It was a phrase, a word we turned over 13 considerably. 14 the correct word. 15 But I would say, I would And we thought we had landed on But it would, of course, be good to 16 check. 17 members have spoken. 18 So, if we could go to Mary once all the And, also, just to respond to your 19 earlier question -- and thank you, Jennifer, she 20 found the information regarding the Capitol dome. 21 So, the current dome is the Capitol's 22 second iteration. The first dome was completed 23 in 1824 and was made of wood and covered by 24 copper. 25 the new structure, which is actually two domes in It was removed in 1856 and work began on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 182 1 one, an inner and an outer. 2 The construction on the outer dome was 3 completed in 1863, which happens to be the year 4 the Emancipation Proclamation was issued, I 5 believe. 6 years later in 1866. And the inner dome was completed three 7 8 And I will also note that those were both within Frederick Douglass' lifetime. 9 And I will say that, yes, the artist 10 went back to that question about the thing on the 11 waist. 12 the artist. 13 And there are references to a watch from But we would absolutely go, I think go 14 back to our subject matter experts, which can 15 include someone at the Frederick Douglass House 16 to absolutely represent, validate that should 17 that be the design that is selected. 18 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 19 MR. WEINMAN: 20 21 Greg? To clarify a little further. The 13th Amendment which, obviously, 22 abolished slavery, was in 1865. And so, once 23 again the current dome would have been in its 24 present state, at least the exterior, in 1865. 25 Frederick Douglass died in 1895. So, yes. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 183 1 MS. STAFFORD: 2 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 3 And, Art, thank you again for your 4 Said better. technical concerns and considerations. 5 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: 6 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 7 Thank you. Thank you. Christopher Capozzola, if you would, please. 8 MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: 9 just start speaking loudly. This is Chris 10 All right. I'll Capozzola. 11 Starting on the appropriate historical 12 lesson, and this is a lesson 13 same high school that Sam and Art went to because 14 I didn't actually get to encounter Frederick 15 Douglass until much later in my adulthood -- for 16 me I think it's important to remember a couple of 17 things. 18 I didn't go to the First of all, that there is a broad 19 category of thought and action called anti- 20 slavery, of which abolition is only a small 21 segment. 22 who called for abolition, and some for immediate 23 abolition were always themselves a minority of 24 the anti-slavery voices, which were themselves a 25 minority of voices in American political culture And so, those in the early 19th century www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 184 1 in the years before the Civil War. 2 And so, Frederick Douglass being an 3 immediatist and abolitionist and an anti-slavery 4 activist is an important sort of tip of the spear 5 of that struggle. 6 Second, it's also important to 7 remember that Frederick Douglass had a lifelong 8 career as a political leader, as a voice for all 9 Americans, at home and abroad, including after 10 the ratification of the 13th Amendment, 11 eventually as a diplomat, a lifelong speaker, and 12 a feminist, and a feminist who appeared at Seneca 13 Falls in 1848. There the declaration of 14 sentiments begins, "all men and women are created 15 equal." 16 And so, Kellen, if you think it's 17 laughable, take that to Elizabeth Cady Stanton. 18 And so then, and so we can actually, I think 19 quite confidently, depict Frederick Douglass at 20 any age and still capture abolition, even if the 21 13th Amendment is decades before the gray hair 22 sets in. 23 He was also deeply cognizant of 24 himself and his image, his public image. 25 there's a great recent book by a historian www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 185 1 tracing the photograph history of Frederick 2 Douglass' aspiration to appear as a founding 3 father, as an alternative founding father. 4 He knew exactly what he as doing. And 5 I think that permits us to get into the obverses, 6 right, to an obverse that depicts him as close to 7 a founding father as we can. 8 9 And so, you know, for me it could be Obverse 1, which I think I still can see very 10 clearly and compellingly, or to Obverse 5, which 11 I think also really works as a, in the kind of 12 long tradition of American numismatics for 13 depicting founding fathers, presidents, and 14 others. 15 I do think I was struck by, you know, 16 some of the conversation earlier about not having 17 confusing obverses. 18 but I actually think Obverse 4 looks like a 19 reverse. 20 challenges with some of the others that people 21 won't know which, what's the heads and what's the 22 tails in that regard. 23 24 25 And I do, I love Obverse 4, And I think there are some real So, you know, so I like Obverse 5, 5 the best. Obverse 1 almost, almost equally. On the reverses, I think that for me www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 186 1 I was drawn to many in 7, in the 7 series. 2 again, I actually think it's, I actually think 3 it's fine and historically accurate to include 4 the words "all men are created equal." 5 how Douglass himself and the suffragist women 6 later, rethought that -- it was the language of 7 the time. 8 We have the Civil Rights quarter coming in the 9 portfolio soon that will have a different sort of 10 And, We saw And it was the language of the time. set of language. 11 I would also be happy with swapping 12 out "the progress of human liberty." 13 preference here is for Reverse 7B, just because I 14 think it draws, you know, puts a little bit more 15 attention on the words and the rise of one 16 individual. 17 18 My personal I think some of the sun rays on 7A are a little bit confusing. 19 And I think my time is up. 20 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 21 I really do appreciate the comments on Thank you very much. 22 Frederick Douglass, and particularly his public 23 image. 24 information. 25 That is very informative and very useful Annelisa Purdie, if you would, please. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 187 1 2 MEMBER PURDIE: Chairman. 3 4 Thank you, Mr. This is Annelisa Purdie. Thank you, Ms. Elliott and Mr. Morris for being here, for your input as well. 5 For the obverses, my favorite far and 6 away was Obverse Number 4 without the audience in 7 the background. 8 effective. 9 I think it works. I think it's I think it's important to depict 10 Frederick Douglass as a younger man. 11 me of his portrait in the National Portrait 12 Gallery, and the fact that he was, from the time 13 that he did liberate himself, constantly working 14 and pushing towards abolition. 15 pose here works as well. 16 I did like 4A. It reminds And I think the But the design overall 17 of 4, minus the people in the background, I don't 18 think they're necessary, is very effective. 19 I didn't like Obverse 3 in large part 20 because, while I understand what the general 21 perspective is supposed to be and the progress of 22 him from boy to man, I think the depiction of him 23 as a boy is a bit too stylized. 24 quite depict the severity of the conditions that 25 he learned to read under, even though it would And doesn't www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 188 1 have been a serious threat to his life. 2 I also like Obverse 5. I think it 3 fits with our general perception of Frederick 4 Douglass, how many people were introduced to him. 5 It's very stylized, it's very static, it's very 6 serious, and it's very impactful, this image 7 overall. 8 are very good as well. The details in his beard and his hair 9 For the reverses, I don't have a 10 problem with Reverse 7, leaving "all men are 11 created equal in there." 12 great way to highlight the hypocrisy of the 13 difference between what's said and what is 14 actually being done, or what was done at the 15 time. 16 I think that it's a I also think that the depiction of the 17 female figure is necessary, particularly in 18 Frederick Douglass' life, considering his wife 19 also was freeborn, and that was where he chose 20 his surname from, from Anna Murray Douglass. 21 So, I think it's important, too, to 22 highlight that contrast between "all men are 23 created equal" when there were also women who 24 were enslaved as well. 25 The only caveat I have with this www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 189 1 design is the depiction of the shackles. 2 that they might work better were they somewhere 3 in the design, but broken, or possibly scattered 4 on the steps if possible. And also being 5 considerate of the fact that this is a quarter, 6 so there is a relatively small space to work 7 from. 8 9 10 I think But apart from it being on the woman's arms, still depicting them, but broken as they're climbing upwards. 11 I think the sun rays can also go, too. 12 And Obverse 1 grew on me. I kept 13 coming back to this while I was looking at the 14 portfolio over the past month or so. 15 directional pull of each of the arms from shackle 16 to breaking out. 17 I like the The only recommendation I would also 18 make for this one, possibly, is that the broken 19 shackle on the right side, if instead of a closed 20 fist I'm wondering how it would work if that hand 21 were completely splayed out versus completely 22 closed. 23 But, otherwise, it's beautifully done. 24 It's beautifully shaded. I like the contrast. 25 And there's no question about what's being www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 190 1 depicted here 2 For the reverses, I did not care for 3 Number 4 because, again, it's a bit too cartoony. 4 This image of -- and I understand the point 5 that's going across, but the idea of him tussling 6 with the giant shackle just sort of downplays the 7 realism and the severity of the situation. 8 though I think the body design is overall well 9 done. 10 Even And the Liberty bell design in Reverse 11 5, I also don't think it fits well with this 12 particular coin, although it is done very well. 13 I also like the quotes here. 14 But overall, I think for the reverses, 15 Number 1 and Number 7 work fine. And I don't 16 have an issue at all with keeping the lettering 17 as it is. 18 And those are my thoughts. 19 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 20 21 Thank you. Annelisa, thank you very much. As for my own thoughts, for the 22 obverse I have to admit I've never been a 23 particular fan or either facing or three-quarter 24 facing profiles. 25 traditional side profile. I must prefer just the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 191 1 So, I find Number 1 and Number 5, I 2 believe it is, the strongest designs. 3 sorry, that's the quarter facing. 4 So, Number 5 5 strongest designs here. 6 No, I'm Number 6 yes. or Number 1 and Number 6 to be the I'm also, for Number 1 and Number 6 as 7 well, Dr. Capozzola's comments about, in his 8 public image Frederick Douglass was seeking to 9 present himself as a founding father, this does 10 play very much into that. 11 visual continuity between the founding father 12 George Washington being replaced in this instance 13 with Frederick Douglass, from a slaver owner to a 14 freed slave. 15 16 As Kellen noted, the So, for Obverse 1, again, my preference would be either 1 or 6. 17 For the reverse I'm very much drawn to 18 Number 1 as well. 19 colleagues noted, to be a very, very strong and 20 compelling design. 21 above all. 22 I do find this, as many of my So this would be my choice I would, at this point. like to invite 23 our stakeholders to address the committee to see 24 if they have any designs that they feel are 25 particularly strong. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 192 1 And I would also ask Ms. Elliott if 2 she could address this question that was raised 3 earlier about the word "abolitionism" versus 4 "abolition." 5 So, Ms. Elliott, if you don't mind 6 offering some comments, both on the portfolio as 7 well as on this question about the wording. 8 MS. ELLIOTT: Sure. Thank you. 9 Well, when I look at the word 10 "abolitionism" I think of the act to abolish. 11 And I think of the abolition of a thing. 12 13 So, the abolition of, the abolition of slavery. So, you abolish slavery. 14 "Abolitionism" is a belief, a system, 15 so a system of beliefs. 16 a movement. 17 18 19 Abolitionism is more of And so that's why I chose the word "abolitionism" as opposed to "abolition." When you think of the Abolition 20 Movement you could say that, the Abolition 21 Movement, or you could say Abolitionism, as 22 opposed to saying just "abolition" versus 23 "abolitionism." 24 So, that's how I looked at it. 25 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: As to the question www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 193 1 of whether you have, or if there are any designs 2 that you feel are particularly compelling 3 yourself, do you have any views on that? 4 5 MS. ELLIOTT: Yes. Bear with me, because I have to pull up my screen again. 6 So, I like the image, image Number 1. 7 And I like the, one of the members mentioned 8 Image Number 2, and I love the way he described 9 why he liked image Number 2. 10 it a little bit differently. 11 It made me look at The reason I like both of those is 12 because I really like the being able to see 13 Frederick Douglass up close and really look at 14 his face, and think of him as a statesman. 15 Also, I like seeing him in Number 2 in 16 his youth. I think that's very important, and in 17 his youth at the time that he was doing this 18 work. 19 The image of him as an older man, as 20 an elder statesman one might say, makes me think 21 of the work that he did during his efforts to 22 fight against slavery, to fight to end slavery. 23 But also thinking about Frederick Douglass after 24 slavery ended and what he did to help move the 25 nation towards living up to its ideals after www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 194 1 slavery ended. 2 So, I think it's powerful to think of 3 him across the time line because he represents so 4 much. 5 equality. 6 thinking about not just the Declaration of 7 Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of 8 Rights, but also when I think about the 9 Emancipation Proclamation and the Reconstruction 10 He represents liberty, justice, and And I think that's really important, Amendments, the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendment. 11 12 So, I think that's why his older image of Frederick Douglass really resonates with me. 13 So, 1 and 2 stood out to me. 14 For the obverse, let me make sure of 15 this. And then also 5 stood out to me as well. 16 For the reverse, what really stands 17 out to me for the reverse are Number 1. 18 I, I wasn't really into Number 1. 19 to the discussion today I understand the impact 20 of that. 21 At first But listening But Nos. 2 and 2A really resonate with 22 me because when I thought about Frederick 23 Douglass I think of him as someone who -- and 24 abolitionism 25 it took to end slavery in the nation. I think of slavery and, and what www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And I Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 195 1 think of the tension of slavery and freedom. And 2 I think of the paradox of liberty in the nation 3 and what African Americans have been fighting for 4 from the very beginning. 5 interracial effort to completely bring the nation 6 out of the bondage of slavery. But it took an 7 So, it is a story of the freedom of 8 African Americans, but also bringing the nation 9 out of the bondage of slavery, because the nation 10 was bound up in slavery. 11 And so, I think that that's really 12 important seeing, especially on, on 2 and 2A, it 13 gives me that sense as well. 14 that. 15 And so, I think of Now, I will say that on -- I had an 16 issue with Nos. 3 and 3A for the same reasons 17 that have been mentioned. 18 And then for Number 7, what stood out 19 to me with that there are many things that I, I 20 had an issue with that 21 also stood out to me was the words "all men are 22 created equal" and you have these people walking 23 up the steps. 24 things, the woman who's walking up the steps has 25 the shackle on her arm. but for Number 7 what And I look at it and, of all www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 196 1 2 So, I thought that kind of tells me that it was a little bit problematic. 3 And while I love the words, you know, 4 Frederick Douglass and the words of "the progress 5 of human liberty," I feel like the depictions of 6 African Americans, especially in the entire 7 walking up those stairs, while it feels 8 aspirational, sometimes it feels like the image 9 can feel condescending, like Black people are 10 constantly being aspirational, like we have to 11 aspire to something, like it's our job to aspire 12 to something. 13 There was a comment that was made 14 about the shackles and the chains representing 15 imprisonment and not slavery. 16 slavery was imprisonment. 17 those shackles very much depict what slavery was: 18 you were bound. 19 have freedom. 20 But that is, It was bondage. You were enslaved. So, You did not You were restrained. So, I do think that they are symbolic 21 of the restraint of people and a nation that was 22 under the restraint of slavery. 23 24 25 So, I think that those images are very powerful. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Ms. Elliott, thank www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 197 1 you very much for your very useful observations. 2 MS. ELLIOTT: Thank you. 3 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Mr. Morris, I would 4 like you at this point is to make some comments 5 on designs that you find most compelling in this 6 portfolio. 7 MR. MORRIS: Thank you very much. 8 Again this is Kenneth Morris. 9 And Number 1 is very powerful on the 10 obverse. 11 to how Frederick Douglass has been given to us in 12 history. 13 being introduced to him in a history class in 14 school. 15 But I would like to speak a little bit And I did hear some comments about History has given us the safe 16 Frederick Douglass, the grandfatherly figure, the 17 profit looking away from the camera, not the 18 abolitionist who was the most photographed 19 American of the 19th Century, who understood from 20 a very young age, at the age of 22, that this new 21 technology that he'd come of age with, 22 photography, he could use to help make his 23 arguments for liberty and freedom in addition to 24 his oratory and his writings. 25 And he said, I never want to look like www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 198 1 a happy, amiable fugitive slave. 2 look me in the eyes you're going to see my 3 humanity and understand that I'm a man worthy of 4 freedom, worthy of citizenship. 5 And when you That's not the Frederick Douglass that 6 we typically visualize when we think about him. 7 We're given, again, the grandfatherly figure, the 8 stately figure. 9 In 1865 Frederick Douglass would have 10 been 47 years old. 11 founding father of the Second Republic. 12 believe that he should be depicted as such on the 13 obverse. 14 And I do consider him a And I And so, I am leaning toward, I believe 15 it's Number 2. 16 with his way that he went about presenting 17 himself through photography, if you look at the 18 more than 160 images of him that have been 19 discovered so far he, the backgrounds are always 20 very simple. 21 these pictures, the photography backgrounds were 22 pretty ornate. 23 background. 24 25 Yes. In this, this one, and also At the time that he would take But he always wanted as simple And what I love about this one is, it's, he's depicted as a younger Douglass. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 He Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 199 1 looks like a founding father to me here. 2 it's a very simple background. 3 name is on there. 4 5 leaning toward. And then I believe the other obverse is Number 6 that I like. 8 9 10 I like that his And so, this one I definitely am 6 7 And Yes. This one as well. Again, his name is on there. powerful. He looks It's a beautiful image of him. It looks like him. 11 The other, the other obverse is where 12 he's depicted as a younger Douglass and actually 13 in a speaking manner, looked to me more like a 14 commemorative coin. 15 appeared on the back of the quarter for a 16 commemorative coin. 17 look like what a traditional coin would look 18 like. 19 Washington, I think that Number 2 and Number 6 20 obverses are the ones that I like the most. 21 And I know he's already So, I would love to see this And since he would be replacing George As far as the reverse, I know the 22 theme of this is abolition or abolitionism. 23 the symbolism of broken chains is very powerful. 24 I, with that in mind, I am leaning toward Number 25 6, I think it is -- No. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 200 1 It would be the one, I think it's on 2 my -- and I don't have it in front of me, but 3 Number 20, I think it is, in the left column. 4 Page 20 I should say. 5 Yes, that one. Yeah, that's Number 6. Okay. That 6 one I think is very powerful. I love the idea of 7 the broken chains. 8 And it just for me, thinking about the obverse 9 and the two that I just said that I like the I love the idea of the fist. 10 most, I think this would pair really nicely on 11 the back of either Number 2 or Number 6. 12 13 So, I'm leaning toward this one as, as my favorite. 14 With regard to the other one with the 15 steps, I agree. 16 the woman trailing behind, also the only one with 17 a shackle on. 18 a lifelong women's rights advocate. 19 I don't like the depiction of As we know, Frederick Douglass was At the age of 30 he spoke at the 20 Seneca Falls Women's Rights Convention of 1848. 21 He gave several speeches about women's rights. 22 And I believe that this one, just the 23 symbolism of a woman behind with a shackle on I 24 don't like. 25 Overall, I like the idea of the steps www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 201 1 and climbing the steps. 2 I'm leaning 6, Number 6 on this one, Reverse 6. 3 Yeah. 4 But I think that, again, CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you again very 5 much for your observations and for being with us 6 today. 7 8 Are there any additional questions or comments from the members at this time? 9 10 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: Art? I'm going to make this is Arthur Bernstein -- one more comment on 11 this same subject of the word, and then I'll 12 stop. 13 Referencing my high school once again, 14 my English teacher always talked about using the 15 active word. 16 explanation I appreciated it. 17 that word "belief." 18 And when I heard Ms. Elliott's She again used And I would rather us not talk about 19 a belief but an action, which was the abolition 20 of slavery, not the belief that slavery should be 21 abolished. 22 use the word "abolition." And so, I think it would be better to 23 Thank you for this time. 24 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 25 much. Art, thank you very And we can certainly re-address that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 202 1 question tomorrow. 2 If there is no further discussion, the 3 committee will now score the obverse and reverse 4 designs for the 2026 quarter commemorating, at 5 this moment, "abolitionism." 6 done, please return them to CCAC Counsel Greg 7 Weinman. 8 9 And when you are And we will take a 10-minute break, roughly, returning at 2:25. 10 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 11 went off the record at 2:15 p.m. and resumed at 12 2:25 p.m.) 13 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, thank you And we are back. And I recognize 14 very much. 15 Greg Weinman, counsel to the CCAC, to present the 16 results from the scoring sheets, so Greg, if you 17 would, please? 18 MR. WEINMAN: Absolutely. The good 19 news, I think we might have some better clarity 20 on this one. 21 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you. 22 MR. WEINMAN: So for the Abolitionism, 23 abolition quarter, obverse number 1 received 26 24 out of 30 points, making it the high scoring 25 obverse design. 02 received 13, and 02A received www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 203 1 eight points, 03 received zero points, 04 2 received eight points, 04A received nine points, 3 05 received 11, and 06 received 12. 4 Moving on to the reverses. Reverse 01 5 received 21 out of 30 points, making it the high 6 scoring design. 7 received 13, 03 received zero, 03A received zero, 8 04 received zero, 05 received6, 06 received six, 9 07 received 11, 7A received 13, and 7B received While 02 received nine, 02A 10 12. So once again, the two high scoring designs 11 are obverse to one and reverse to one. 12 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Fantastic. We have 13 a potential path forward on that portfolio. 14 there any questions or comments at this point 15 before we move on to our next portfolio? 16 was your hand raised? 17 Oh, okay. 18 MEMBER MORAN: Are Sam, Mike? I'll make an 19 observation. We don't see any of the other 20 reverses or obverses that would suitable for 21 substitution on this one, so I think we're pretty 22 well there. 23 MS. STAFFORD: Mr. Chair? 24 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 25 MS. STAFFORD: Yes? And we don't have to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 204 1 have the conversation now, but all the portfolios 2 for Quarter 3 and Quarter 5, we did not mandate 3 the name of the person who was depicted on the 4 obverse so some artists included it, and others 5 did not. 6 committee would deliberate on just the idea of 7 whether Frederick Douglass should appear on the 8 obverse of the claim, and our chief engraver 9 stands ready if you desire to talk through the So it would be extremely helpful if the 10 committee what he would do to the composition to 11 accommodate it if it did not already depict it. 12 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: That's wonderful 13 information. 14 Kellen, your hand was raised. 15 Thank you very much for that. MEMBER HOARD: Yeah, just to the point 16 on the name, I would actually suggest that we -- 17 and we can have this conversation later if that's 18 more appropriate -- that we actually don't 19 include the name for the prior reason that even 20 though it'd be helpful to label this historical 21 figure, we don't do that with any of the 22 presidents we're replacing, with George 23 Washington, with Lincoln, with Roosevelt. 24 25 We don't do it with any of -- or Jefferson. And I think that's an important www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 205 1 thing, he is of that stature. We are putting him 2 in that role, and he is a person who people will 3 learn about as a consequence. 4 potentially it puts him down to some level to 5 have to label him versus lifting him up to the 6 same level at which everyone else is. I think 7 (Simultaneous speaking.) 8 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 9 Thank you. Thank you very much, that is an argument that I would welcome that we 10 revisit tomorrow as well, so, any other questions 11 or comments at this time on this portfolio? 12 All right, wonderful. I think that 13 all discussion then has concluded on this 14 portfolio, and again, I would like to thank Mr. 15 Ken Morris and Ms. Mary Elliott this -- sorry, 16 this afternoon, and for their wonderful 17 observations that they offered to us a little bit 18 earlier, so thank you again and we'll move on. 19 20 21 22 23 MR. MORRIS: Thank you, thank you very much for your work. MS. ELLIOTT: great discussion. Thank you. This was a Really appreciate you all. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you. All 24 right, so we will now consider the obverse and 25 reverse candidate designs for the 2026 Quarter www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 206 1 Number 4, suffrage, which April Stafford and Russ 2 Evans will now present. 3 MS. STAFFORD: So April, if you would? Thank you. If it's all 4 right, I'll just let you know we are very 5 fortunate to have with us today two of about four 6 scholars with whom we worked in developing this 7 portfolio. 8 external affairs of the National Women's History 9 Museum is with us, as well as Dr. Allida Black, Jen Herrera, vice president of 10 managing director of Allenswood Group. And so 11 thank you for being with us, thank you for all of 12 your work in getting this portfolio to this 13 point. 14 And if it's okay, Mr. Chair, I'll go 15 through the candidate designs, and if you'd like 16 to approach the -- 17 (Simultaneous speaking.) 18 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 19 MS. STAFFORD: 20 Absolutely. -- that would be wonderful. 21 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 22 MS. STAFFORD: Yes, please. So a little background 23 on suffrage. The Nineteenth Amendment to the 24 U.S. Constitution was ratified on August 26, 1920 25 and marked the single largest extension of voting www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 207 1 rights in United States' history, enfranchising 2 27,000,000 women in the United States. 3 Cady Stanton and Lucretia Mott organized the 4 first women's rights convention in Seneca Falls 5 in July 1848, where 68 women and 32 men signed 6 the Declaration of Sentiments. 7 Elizabeth Modeled after the Declaration of 8 Independence, the Declaration of Sentiments 9 proclaimed that all men and women are created 10 equal, linking women's rights directly to the 11 founding ideals of the United States. 12 activists, including Susan B. Anthony, Harriet 13 Tubman, Sojourner Truth, Ida B. Wells, Jovita 14 Idar, Inez Milholland, Mary Church Terrell, Anne 15 Dallas Dudley, Carrie Chapman Catt, Alice Paul, 16 Lucy Burns, and many others conducted over 900 17 local, state, and federal campaigns over 72 years 18 to bring women the right to vote. 19 Suffrage But as the National Archive notes, 20 strategies for achieving their goal varied, some 21 pursued the strategy of passing suffrage acts in 22 each state, others challenged male-only voting 23 laws in the courts. 24 confrontational tactics such as picketing, silent 25 vigils, and hunger strikes. Some suffragists used more www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 208 1 On November 6, 1917, New York granted 2 women the right to vote, creating momentum in the 3 movement that culminated in the ratification of 4 the Nineteenth Amendment three years later. 5 campaign to win the passage of the Nineteenth 6 Amendment guaranteeing women the right to vote 7 stands as one of the most significant and wide- 8 ranging moments of political mobilization in U.S. 9 history. The To achieve it, a broad coalition of 10 women came together under one manner to not only 11 fight for suffrage, but to take a crucial step 12 toward achieving broader equality for American 13 women. 14 Though the Nineteenth Amendment was a 15 pivotal achievement in American suffrage, its 16 ratification did not guarantee unobstructed 17 enfranchisement for all citizens. 18 majority of Black Americans lived in the South, 19 where their voting rights were effectively 20 blocked by tactics such as whites-only primaries, 21 poll taxes, and literacy tests. 22 In 1920, the These same methods were also used to 23 deny the rights of other minorities, including 24 Hispanic and Latino Americans. 25 citizens, it was the Voting Rights Act of 1965 For these www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 209 1 enacted almost half a century later that 2 ultimately removed these structural barriers to 3 voting. 4 The obverse design features a 5 depiction of a United States suffragist at once 6 an every-woman to represent the thousands of 7 Americans who contributed to this effort, while 8 also personifying liberty through a specific 9 historical lens. 10 11 Inscriptions include e pluribus unum, in God we trust, and 1776 through 2026. The reverse design is emblematic of 12 the suffrage movement and the Nineteenth 13 Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. 14 include Liberty, United States of America, and 15 Quarter Dollar, and Suffrage. 16 Inscriptions The obverse designs, obverse 1, 1A, 17 1B, and 2 depict an American suffragist striving 18 forward propelled by her steadfast convictions. 19 She hoists her votes for women banner as a beacon 20 of the change she demands. 21 here, the suffragist is flanked by fellow 22 advocates outlined in silhouette, an illusion to 23 the thousands of Americans who fought for voting 24 rights across the country. 25 In design 1, seen In design 1A, she marches by the U.S. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 210 1 Capitol Building, juxtaposing this potent symbol 2 of government with her unwavering march for 3 progress. 4 obverse 2. 5 And we also have 1B, seen here. And For the reverse designs, reverse 1 6 illustrates that the work and effects of suffrage 7 are generational. 8 poised to join the arms already shouldering the 9 weight of a foundation of stone inscribed with A child's hand reaches upward, 10 liberty, equality, justice for women, and 11 suffrage. 12 Please note that this design appeared 13 with a different inscription as the obverse of a 14 collectible companion medal paired with the 15 Mint's 2020 women's suffrage centennial silver 16 dollar. 17 Under 10,000 medals were sold. Reverse 2 depicts the hands of four 18 women exercising their right to vote. Shown in a 19 variety of dress, they symbolize the diverse 20 coalition that pursued a shared vision of 21 equality through suffrage. 22 ballot, representing not only a personal 23 expression of civic action, but the collective 24 victory and enduring legacy of the suffrage 25 moment. Each hand casts a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 211 1 Reverse 3 depicts an American woman 2 holding a ballot preparing to cast her vote. 3 This civic action in turn casts the shadow of 4 Lady Liberty bearing her torch, symbolizing the 5 right to vote as key to American democracy. 6 Reverse 4 features a rosette-style 7 button emblazoned with Votes for Women, similar 8 to those worn by suffragists, reflecting the 9 movement's central unshakable demand. 10 Reverse 5 shows a woman casting a 11 ballot, depicted in a distinctly art deco style 12 that emerged in the years following the 13 ratification of the Nineteenth Amendment. 14 inscriptions are rendered in a flowing script to 15 provide a graceful contrast to the annular 16 elements of the stylized figure. 17 boldly states Votes for Women, no longer a battle 18 cry, but a codified expression of American 19 democracy. 20 The The ballot And finally reverse 6 depicts a banner 21 held high declaring votes for women, the rallying 22 cry for the right for suffrage. 23 clear message held aloft by a gripping hand, body 24 unseen represents the countless everyday women 25 who took up the mantle of protest for their This bold and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 212 1 voting rights in this country. 2 the candidate designs. 3 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: That concludes Thank you very much. 4 Dr. Black, Ms. Herrera, welcome, and at this 5 point I would simply invite you to address the 6 committee if you like. 7 DR. BLACK: 8 to start. 9 10 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Is she muted? Oh, she's muted. 11 DR. BLACK: 12 MS. WARREN: 13 we can't hear you, Jen. 14 your audio. 15 MS. HERRERA: 16 MS. WARREN: 17 Jennifer, I defer to you Let's see. No, she's not muted, but I don't know if it's Okay. Oh wait, was that you? Try it again. 18 MS. HERRERA: 19 MS. WARREN: 20 DR. BLACK: 21 MS. HERRERA: Now can you hear me? Yes. Now we can, Jennifer. Sorry, I don't know 22 what's going on with my computer, but I just 23 wanted to take a moment to thank everybody for 24 having the National Women's History Museum here 25 today and to share our ideas about this coin. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 213 1 We've been a proud partner to the Mint 2 under American Women Quarters Program, and it's 3 been an absolute joy professionally and 4 personally to work on that program and to now be 5 part of this conversation about this coin. 6 thank you so much for having me and us. 7 DR. BLACK: So, Allida? Well, I echo everything 8 that Jennifer said. It has just been a glorious 9 experience, although sometimes hated in our 10 committee discussions, but the committee felt 11 quite strongly that we should show a woman in 12 compelling action moving forward, joyful but 13 convinced that this struggle was worth fighting. 14 We thought a lot about how to convey a movement 15 as opposed to a person. 16 unanimous agreement on a woman to represent, a 17 known woman to represent the suffrage battle. We could not find 18 So we were unanimous in our agreement 19 that an average suffragist who risked herself for 20 democracy and dedicated her vision and her 21 courage to looking forward should be on the coin. 22 And so, we very much wanted Votes for Women on 23 the banner emphasized. 24 25 We wanted the woman in motion. wanted the coin to represent that this was a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 We Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 214 1 movement which meant that other people whose 2 names will never be known to history were also 3 involved. 4 obverse, but we all loved the image of the 5 struggle and the dream that it took to get the 6 vote. 7 And we debated a lot about the And that's my two cents' worth from 8 the committee. Jennifer, I would love to hear 9 your response to that summation, but I also just 10 want to reiterate how glorious it is for me to 11 see the Mint to take this stride forward, not 12 just with suffrage and not just with the Women 13 Quarters Program, which I was privileged to be a 14 part of, as well. 15 deliberation, and the respect with which these 16 Americans are treated. 17 for that. 18 But to see the care, the And so, I just salute you CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you very much. 19 Ms. Herrera, if you'd like to respond to Dr. 20 Black, please do. 21 MS. HERRERA: Yeah, thanks Allida, I 22 just want to echo everything what my dear 23 colleague has said. 24 many thousands and thousands of women. 25 was incredibly important to us that this coin This was a movement of many, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And so it Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 215 1 depict it. 2 from the National Women's History Museum point of 3 view of which Dr. Black is one of our scholars, 4 to expand the story of suffrage that is the one 5 that's commonly told in our history books. 6 And it was also important for us to, We know that women's history begins in 7 the classroom and that it's often woefully under- 8 represented. 9 yesterday's students and students for decades and 10 decades have learned about a few seminal figures, 11 including Susan B. Anthony, what we found as an 12 institution is that women are largely under- 13 represented, and the story of suffrage really 14 boils down to a few well-known names, and in 15 fact, suffrage looked really different, the fight 16 for suffrage looked really different across the 17 United States, and that we take great care in 18 trying to expand that story because it was a very 19 expansive story. 20 So while today's students and And we loved that through this coin 21 there's an opportunity to continue that expanded 22 narrative so that others, you know, when they 23 reach into their pocket they can kind of get a 24 more full and robust scope of the magnitude of 25 what this was. So thank you very much. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 216 1 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: And Angela Tate, if 2 you're with us, you certainly would be welcome to 3 address the committee, as well. 4 MS. TATE: Hello everyone, very 5 grateful to be here, and also with my colleagues, 6 particularly since I was a part of the American 7 Women Quarters Program in my previous position as 8 women's history curator at the National Museum of 9 African American History and Culture. Now I am 10 chief curator at the National Museum of African 11 American History Boston and Nantucket, and I'm 12 very pleased to be able to continue this work. 13 And I just want to reiterate that this 14 was a great group, we had a lot of robust 15 debates, particularly around representation of 16 the history of suffrage, not just a singular 17 woman, not just a while woman, but a continuum of 18 women fighting for suffrage across the twentieth 19 century because not all women received the vote 20 at the same time. 21 discussing the best choices for the design, it 22 was with that in mind, and also to think about 23 how women's suffrage is abroad topic that 24 continues to this day. 25 And so, when we were And so a lot of the designs that we www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 217 1 were in consensus about did encompass that theme 2 and that thought, and particularly around 3 continuing that education piece around women's 4 history and suffrage. 5 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you all three 6 for your comments. It was truly a pleasure to 7 have you with us today. 8 like to ask if there are any technical or legal 9 questions from the committee about this program At this moment I would 10 or these designs for the 2026 quarter 11 commemorating suffrage before we begin our 12 general discussion? 13 raised. 14 And Art, I see your hand is MEMBER BERNSTEIN: A technical 15 question on reverse 02. 16 what's going on with the letters AR on the lock 17 of a quarter box. 18 I'm just not following MS. STAFFORD: Yeah. It's simply 19 incused, the lock is raised, and so the AR would 20 be sunk into the lock. 21 22 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: letters of the quarter are? 23 MS. STAFFORD: 24 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: 25 And the other Would be raised. All right. you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Thank Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 218 1 MS. STAFFORD: 2 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: 3 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 4 you. Mm-hmm. It's not obvious. All right, thank Any other questions or comments? 5 I'll take that as a comment. All right. All 6 good. If there are no further 7 questions or comments, then let's begin our 8 discussion, and I would like to again remind our 9 committee members please try to keep your 10 comments to five minutes or less, and please do 11 identify yourself for the record prior to 12 speaking. 13 Sollman. 14 Let me begin with Jeanne Stevens- MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: 15 you. 16 these designs, I was reminded of the fact that I 17 did do a medal for Alice Paul, and what these 18 women went through to gain the right to vote was 19 pretty terrible. 20 starved, and she did manage to get out, and but 21 it was a horrific journey to gain the votes for 22 women. 23 participate in this program. 24 25 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Okay, thank As I reviewed Alice Paul was in prison, she So I'm very honored to be able to I appreciate having to find a universal woman to be on this coin, and I think www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 219 1 for me, design number 1 is the one that I would 2 choose because she is not only moving forward 3 with a great amount of courage, she also has 4 partnership with the women behind her. 5 number 1A where she's in front of the Capitol, 6 these are pretty important events in this journey 7 to earn our votes. 8 9 And also, For the reverse, the hands holding up the stone in number 1 to me -- and I know we've 10 had this before -- but it's just such a powerful 11 image. 12 is really powerful and I would like to see this 13 one go forward. 14 number 1. 15 think that the hands putting the votes on the 16 ballot box, that's not a very convincing -- the 17 people kind of like, wave their hands over these 18 ballots and dump them in the box, I don't feel 19 like this is a gesture, so I'm not going to put 20 my votes to that one. I think with the large text of suffrage 21 So I am putting all my votes to The others I don't think particularly And the rest I just don't feel 22 confident. 23 go for, thank you. 24 25 So number 1 is the one I'm going to CHAIR VAN ALFEN: much. Okay, thank you very Annelisa Purdie? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 220 1 MEMBER PURDIE: Thank you, M. 2 Chairman, thank you, Dr. Black, Ms. Herrera, the 3 state for being here, as well. 4 portfolio -- and I'm glad that it was brought up 5 -- I struggled with the representation of the 6 suffragettes and just thinking about the overall 7 push for the right to vote, as well, because all 8 women did not get the right to vote at the same 9 time. Looking over this And so whereas 1920 is something that 10 generally we celebrate, we have to remember that 11 different women, especially across racial lines, 12 and even class lines, did not have the same 13 access to that right. 14 So thinking about that from a 15 historical perspective for the reverses, and I'm 16 going to start with the reverses, I think that 17 design number 2 is very well done, I think that 18 it's proportioned well, I think that the details 19 are done well. 20 manicures on the far right in terms of historical 21 accuracy, but they're done very well, and I like 22 that the representation of the different hands do 23 seem to show somewhat, very slightly a bit of a 24 class variety. 25 Not completely sure about the But in terms of an overall design for www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 221 1 the quarter, especially because of space, which 2 is something I've been thinking about with this 3 portfolio, I'm not sure how well this would be 4 rendered, but I did want to table this because 5 the overall proportions of this design, it's very 6 good. 7 My favorite was reverse number 4, 8 going back to the theme of using motifs and 9 symbols versus images of individuals, I think 10 that this is a very symmetrical look, I can see 11 someone turning this over in their hands and 12 looking at it and think it's very striking. 13 very statement. 14 conversation piece for symbols of the suffrage 15 moment and things that may potentially be 16 revived, we don't know. 17 done very well, it's simple, it's to the point, 18 and it brings up something that would be 19 instantly recognizable to those who have 20 knowledge about the movement itself. 21 It's It also would serve as a But I think that it's For the obverses, none of the obverses 22 especially stood out to me in terms of grabbing 23 my attention, but the one that I was drawn to the 24 most is obverse 1B. 25 this over 1A is simply because of the And the reason why I chose www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 222 1 distinguishing between the Capitol Building and 2 the woman's dress might be a bit difficult, 3 again, because of the size of the quarter. 4 love the detail, I love the way that she's 5 striving forward, but I think that the line if 6 this design were to go forward with the Capitol 7 in the background would have to be much more 8 drawn out to distinguish, I like the idea of her 9 by herself though, with the Votes for Women flag 10 I moving forward. 11 I think it keeps the attention on her, 12 and her expression works. 13 way that the e pluribus unum is framed around her 14 works well -- well, nothing's interfering with 15 each other with this particular design. 16 obverse 2 in terms of the detail to the dress, 17 especially with the boots, but I think that the 18 design of the woman overall and the flag are 19 interfering with each other, and overall 1B works 20 better. And those are my thoughts. 21 22 And I think that the CHAIR VAN ALFEN: very much. 23 I liked Thank you. Annelisa, thank you Art Bernstein? MEMBER BERNSTEIN: This is Arthur 24 Bernstein. With regard to the obverse, this is - 25 - I guess we've now established that the Capitol www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 223 1 is the correct rendition. 2 particular coin, didn't see the need to add an 3 architectural feature, so I like the obverses 4 without the Capitol, and in particular I was 5 drawn to the last one, that's number 02. 6 But I, on this I heard Dr. Black refer to compelling 7 action moving forward and to me, 02 with the 8 larger, at an unusual angle, she's leaning 9 forward, to me that was a more compelling posture 10 than the other women holding flags. 11 was my favorite amongst the obverse designs. 12 And so 02 And with the reverse designs, reverse 13 3, I appreciated that shadow technique. 14 thought that was very clever. 15 to use this design I think we would be happy 16 without the stars around the torch, and making 17 this seem more like a shadow. 18 Annelisa, I love design 4. 19 perfect reverse, it has that symmetry, it ties in 20 historically with the movement, and so I would 21 recommend 4. 22 very intriguing, but I think it's just a little 23 too mod for what we're doing. 24 25 If we were going But along with To me it's the Design 5 I thought was very mod and CHAIR VAN ALFEN: much. I Art, thank you very Dr. Christopher Capozzola, if you would, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 224 1 please? 2 MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: All right, this is 3 Chris Capozzola and I just want to thank our 4 guests for putting -- you know, sort of hitting 5 the nail on the head in terms of the challenge of 6 the task of conveying a movement and an effort 7 that was very long, very diverse, and at moments, 8 extremely concrete, but at the same time, very 9 hard to depict visually. And I think that's a 10 real challenge for this portfolio. 11 hard for this portfolio for the following reason, 12 right? 13 It is extra There is one very simple way to 14 explain it, explain the suffrage movement, and 15 that's with the phrase Votes for Women, which by 16 the way is deceptively simple, as some people 17 have said because not all women got the right to 18 vote in 1920. 19 But we can't issue a coin that has 20 Votes for Women on both the front and the bank. 21 And I also think we shouldn't have a two-headed 22 coin, you know, with -- and so there are some 23 pairings here that I think wouldn't actually work 24 because it wouldn't be clear, you know, and I'm 25 thinking here particularly of, say, 05 for www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 225 1 example I think just won't work and -- depending 2 on what it's paired with in the obverse because 3 there might be too many heads. 4 So that's guiding me in what I'm 5 thinking, and it kind of really narrows down my 6 choices. 7 that's not very large, I do think that obverse 1B 8 is probably the simplest and most legible to most 9 people. I think for a circulating quarter I would make a suggestion that perhaps 10 her banner could just say suffrage. 11 Votes for Women could appear on the reverse, and 12 that could solve that issue. 13 And then I also think that if we were going to 14 go with 1A if we thought it could, you know, be 15 rendered in sufficient detail, but actually the 16 White House is more historically for the last 17 phases of the suffrage movement than the Capitol 18 because the protests -- the National Women's 19 Party protests at the White House were so 20 significant in '17 and '18. 21 On the reverse, you know, while I 22 liked 02, and while visually I loved 05, I think 23 that the one that works best as a reverse as 24 others have said, is 04, the rosette. 25 suffrage left the reverse and moved to the front, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And if Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 226 1 it could be a quarter dollar. 2 you know, make art on the fly, but I think it 3 could solve some of those issues, and I will 4 leave it at that. 5 6 7 I'm not going to, Thank you. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you very much. Kellen Hoard, if you would, please? MEMBER HOARD: Absolutely. 8 This is Kellen Hoard. 9 designs 1 and 1A, 1B, all stellar. Thank you. And for the obverse, I think 10 there's distinct pros and cons for all of them. 11 I'd happy vote for any of them. 12 little bit towards 1B really because, again, it's 13 visual continuity for the public. 14 I think I lean a American Coins did uplift individual 15 iconic people on their obverses, highlighted them 16 as the point of focus and praise. 17 with multiple people and buildings that tend to 18 be reserved for reverses, and I think 1B just 19 fits into that trend best, highlighting a 20 suffragette as an outstanding example of American 21 progress and activism who can then be paired with 22 a larger scene on the reverse. 23 Broader scenes I also think that having her alone 24 will ensure she's boldly visible on that quarter 25 size coin, and I like the font for e pluribus www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 227 1 unum there. 2 options. 3 powerful piece which accidentally demonstrates 4 the work of many undertaken by many to make this 5 a reality, and it also deals with that issue of 6 Votes for Women versus suffrage on both sides. 7 There's several excellent reverse I enjoyed reverse 1, I think it's a Reverse 2 is really mesmerizing to me. 8 The visual lines were. Although I'm not 9 especially partial to the block, you know, motif 10 at the bottom there, the design element there. 11 And then reverse 4 is simple but clear and 12 powerful, and so I'm giving all three of those 13 designs points. Thanks so much. 14 (Simultaneous speaking.) 15 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 16 17 Thank you. Donald Scarinci, please. MEMBER SCARINCI: So I like obverse 1 18 as a reverse but I don't like any of these as an 19 obverse for this series, and if we could send it 20 back and ask them, ask the Mint to pick a 21 suffragette, I mean, we've had Alice Paul on a 22 gold coin, we've had previously the Susan B. 23 Anthony dollar. 24 will be the only full-bodied image on the obverse 25 of one of the quarters, and I think, you know, But the series is really -- this www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 228 1 we're better off, you know, to be consistent 2 either to go with a half figure or a partial 3 figure as we did in the second coin that we 4 discussed today. 5 know, of someone, right? 6 And, you know, or a bust, you But if we can't do that, then we can't 7 do that. I just won't vote for these. Really, 8 the only choice on the reverse, you know, I like 9 the 04 but since I don't have an obverse to pair 10 it with, you know, I wouldn't pair it with any of 11 these, I wouldn't use anything that says -- I 12 think that the point was made, you know, it's 13 Votes for Women, you don't have Votes for Women 14 on the obverse and Votes for Women on the 15 reverse, so you got to really decide what you're 16 going to do. 17 Either you're going to put the 18 suffrage on the obverse and then the Votes for 19 Women, obverse 4 on the reverse, or you know, 20 just keep -- if you're inclined to, you know, 21 support one of these standing figures, you know, 22 do you go with suffrage on the reverse? 23 01. 24 25 Which is So, that's all I really have to say. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you very much. John Saunders, if you would, please? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 229 1 MEMBER SAUNDERS: Hi, John Saunders 2 here. 3 the key is Votes for Women, and the first design 4 I think on the obverse, the 1, 2, 3, says it 5 better, says it bolder than 2. 6 like the one that 01B, it's less cluttered, it 7 doesn't have the Capitol, it doesn't have the 8 other figures back there, it stands out more, it 9 gets the message across, it's just like, my 10 I agree with what our liaisons have said, Of the three, I mind's just 100 percent there. 11 The reverse, I really like 05. I 12 think that is a cool looking coin, it 13 demonstrates the era when the amendment was 14 passed. 15 a little bit different, and I'm usually the 16 traditionalist, 17 going to get my vote. 18 01, it looks like the women are still being 19 questioned, if they let their guard down for a 20 second the rock's going to crush them, you know 21 and hopefully that's not how we are today. 22 To my mind, it is a little bit mod, it's but I just like it, so that's I don't particularly like And the voting boxes just didn't turn 23 me on or the sign Votes for Women didn't turn me 24 on. 25 kind of super traditional. The badge with the rose design, yes, that's I mean, they've had www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 230 1 some medieval coins with kind of a similar look 2 to it and so on, so if I had to go run the others 3 I guess I'd have to go with the 4, but 05 just 4 sells it for me, it's just cool looking, it's, 5 you know, it's a coin I'd like to have in my 6 pocket. 7 you. So that's the best I could say. 8 9 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank Thank you very much. Sam Gelberd, if you would please? 10 MEMBER GELBERD: Thank you, Peter, 11 this is Sam Gelberd. 12 that hasn't been said already. 13 obverses 1, 1A, 1B to obverse 2. 14 said, I do like obverse 1 only because what we 15 heard earlier from the liaison saying that it's 16 great the way the silhouette conveys the 17 symbolism of the nameless, countless suffragists 18 that were involved. 19 Not a whole lot I can add I do prefer With that being Again, Chris said it great, we can't 20 have Votes for Women on both sides, it doesn't 21 look good. 22 headed coin like that even though John's 23 compelling argument for reverse 5. 24 stylization of it, really nice. 25 obverse 1, I'm almost wondering if any I also don't like seeing a double- I do like the But yeah, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 231 1 consideration was given by the Mint to maybe put 2 a line underneath the feet of the suffragists, 3 like an excerpt line. 4 another point, I'm not sure if that's something 5 we may want to add. 6 prefer obverse 01. 7 We can adjust that at But yes ultimately I do For the reverses, I also like reverse 8 number 1 ultimately, that is my favorite. If we 9 could rework some of the wording to resemble more 10 of an art deco font. 11 lettering first of the word suffrage, but some of 12 the others I'd almost like to see them rendered 13 with an art deco font. 14 a little bit better. 15 I'm okay with the block I just think it may read Reverse 2, I love the font of suffrage 16 at the top with the hands. 17 strange to me the one coming out of the 11:00 18 position, it just looks like there's -- I know 19 you can't really see the thumb there but it just, 20 it reads a little strange to me. 21 be okay with that, yes, remove the stars. 22 think that would be a good idea. 23 It does look a little Reverse 3 I'd I My second choice for the reverse would 24 be Reverse 4 with the rosette. Yeah, Votes for 25 Women, not seeing that, maybe we replace it with www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 232 1 something like Nineteenth Amendment or justice 2 for women, something to that effect. 3 think kind of misses the mark. 4 obverse 1 and reverse 1. 5 6 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: much. Six, I So ultimately Sam, thank you very Mike Moran, if you would please? 7 MEMBER MORAN: 8 is Mike Moran. 9 the obverse. Thank you, Peter. This I can go for either 1 or 1B on They're both clean. I think I 10 understand where Donald's coming from about we're 11 breaking a trend here of consistency in terms of 12 not having a bust or a three-quarter bust on the 13 obverse. 14 it to us, there was no one particular strong 15 leader in this group. 16 itself, and that's what makes it important to 17 have those silhouettes in the background, that's 18 why I think I lean toward 1. 19 But I think our sponsors very ably put It rose up from women I'm troubled with the reverse. One's 20 okay. But a bunch of hands coming out of the 21 bottom of the coin never turned me on. 22 think that Sam's suggestion that we would change 23 the font to an art deco would make it more 24 appealing to me. 25 Vote for Women on both sides just doesn't work. I did I was going to go for 4 but www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 233 1 We got to come up with something different that 2 is not forced, but historically appropriate 3 either on the flag or in the rosette. 4 well be that that's where each one should have 5 Votes for Women. 6 to do with the reverse. 7 And it may So I don't know what I'm going CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, Mike, 8 thank you very much. With this obverse I see an 9 opportunity again to engage with the potential of 10 creating a chronological chain across these five 11 inflection points. 12 And so, I'll remind you that in 1916 13 the U.S. Mint introduced both The Walking Liberty 14 half dollar as well as the Standing Liberty 15 quarter dollar, and in a way this Walking Liberty 16 suffragists could be interpreted as both an 17 allusion to those coins that would be 18 chronologically appropriate, but also then 19 introduce a walking Liberty figure which then 20 could be carried through into some of the other 21 design portfolios because of course there are 22 walking figures in the next portfolio we will 23 see, and in the half dollar. 24 25 So there is an opportunity there I think create some sort of cohesion, so I really www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 234 1 rather like actually this walking 2 suffragettes/Liberty on the obverse here. 3 said, I have a slight preference for number 1 4 with the silhouetted figures again because there 5 is a similar obverse in the next portfolio we 6 will be looking at which could tie those two 7 quarters together, but if this were to be paired 8 with reverse number 1, the multitude of hands 9 could then reflect the multitude of women on the 10 That obverse of the coins as well. 11 Although I do share some concerns that 12 while this is in some ways a strong design, it is 13 also at the same time something we've done 14 before, and it might need some reconsideration. 15 Otherwise 4 I think would be a serviceable 16 reverse, but just is not quite as strong as 17 number 1. 18 So with those comments of mine, I 19 would like to invite our guests, Herrera, Dr. 20 Black, and Ms. Tate, if have any observations on 21 the reverse designs of these coins. 22 we'll start with you if you like. 23 MS. TATE: 24 myself on mute. 25 resonated with so many. Ms. Tate, Pardon me, I was putting I liked everyone's responses and While we were very www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 235 1 interested in having that full display of those 2 who are involved in the fight for suffrage to be 3 represented, it is logical to not have the same 4 thing repeated on both sides, and also thinking 5 from a design perspective what stands out the 6 most. 7 and is also something that wouldn't be as 8 distracting if there's another side with the 9 figure or another similar rendering of Votes for I do think that 4 does stand out the most 10 Women but not exactly Votes for Women. 11 thank you. 12 13 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: But, Thank you. Ms. Herrera, if you have anything, any observations? 14 MS. HERRERA: It's so interesting 15 hearing you all talk about the symmetry and the 16 considerations that are outside of the subject 17 matter so to speak. 18 for Women on both sides, for example. 19 I think we spent some time obviously with these 20 designs as well and they didn't come as easily to 21 us, an answer didn't come as easily to us. 22 So having the words Votes You know, I'm particular to this design as well 23 as the suffrage holding up the suffrage. 24 sorry, I don't know quite what number it is, 25 okay, oh, 1. Yeah -- Allida? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I'm Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 236 1 DR. BLACK: Am I unmuted? Oh okay. 2 I agree completely with your careful observations 3 about votes for women as a focal point on both 4 sides of the coin. 5 about this a great deal and we immediately agreed 6 with you all that it should not be replicated 7 which is why we really were unanimous in our 8 support for number 1, because what we wanted to 9 do was to show that it took until 1965 and 1968 The scholars committee talked 10 to get federal legislation on voting rights, and 11 then the continuing struggle to enforce that. 12 So we thought the prominent votes for 13 women flag in 1 and 1B could really accentuate 14 the movement side and that on the obverse Section 15 1 could deal with the continuing struggle to make 16 suffrage real. 17 deco fonts on 18 think it makes it more era inappropriate, but 19 also more enticing to the eye, and it doesn't 20 look like the words were stamped on top of 21 suffrage. 22 I love the idea of having art the image that is showing now. I With number 4, with the rosette, the 23 vast majority of America will be clueless on what 24 that rosette means. 25 it, and in fact it was a highly controversial They will have no idea about www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 237 1 image during the movement itself about whether 2 this particular image should be the number one 3 button badge symbol of suffrage. 4 As I talked with a lot of my 5 colleagues before this just to make sure that I 6 remembered their observations correctly from our 7 meeting and gave them my word that I would speak 8 up for them, so I am going to politely but 9 strongly through my voice behind 1A and 1B and 10 then 1. 11 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you very much, 12 very much appreciated. 13 questions or comments from the committee? 14 Are there any other MEMBER SAUNDERS: John? John Saunders again. 15 I agree with what was said that we go with any of 16 the last three of designs, particularly number 5, 17 which I like. 18 like, women's suffrage or equality of liberty. 19 If we change Votes for Women to Just equality and liberty. That's 20 easy not to do, so I agree we shouldn't have 21 votes for women on both sides, but I think either 22 4 or 5 design works with the change in wording 23 there and I think that's pretty easy for them to 24 do. 25 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: But again that's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 238 1 something they certainly can bring up tomorrow if 2 one of these designs is up for recommendation. 3 Art? 4 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: Perhaps this also 5 fits within our conversation tomorrow. I did a 6 little quick research on those academic 7 institutions eBay and Amazon, and found suffrage 8 rosettes with phrases suffrage first, and equal 9 suffrage, which both seem like phrases that will 10 get us out of this conundrum. 11 12 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: you. Very good, thank Sam? 13 MEMBER GELBERD: This is Sam Gelberd. 14 Only thing I would add to that Art, is that 15 because it is a quarter dollar, it may not read 16 as well in the middle of the rosette. 17 be my only concern with that. 18 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 19 you. 20 committee? 21 So that'd All right, thank Any other questions or comments from the MR. MENNA: Oh yes, this is Joseph 22 Menna, I just want to address you for the last 23 time. 24 25 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Oh, yeah, please. Thank you, Joe. Oh, here we go. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 239 1 MR. MENNA: This is Joseph Menna. 2 Just in response to the last comment, just I 3 contacted the conference with April. 4 MS. STAFFORD: 5 MR. MENNA: Hi Joe. The text does not have to 6 be horizontal. 7 arched across the top. 8 choices that arches, as Art Bernstein said, are 9 doable. 10 11 You could put, like, suffrage Well, any of those text CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Joe. Yeah, please, Greg. 12 MR. WEINMAN: I want to clarify 13 something quickly as well, not that I think it's 14 material, but Mr. Bernstein did say ask a 15 question about 02. It was design 5 I believe. 16 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 17 MR. WEINMAN: All right. Reverse. Yes. About 18 whether or not this could be a two-headed coin. 19 The -- or what is it? 20 said that. 21 speaking, obviously this wouldn't be here if it 22 didn't comport with the legislation, the 23 legislation does prohibit any head and shoulders 24 portrait or bust on the reverse of the coin. 25 made a determination this was neither a head and Oh okay. It was Capozzola Yeah, just to clarify, legally www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 We Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 240 1 shoulders portrait nor a bust, the way it was 2 portrayed. 3 So it does comport to the legislation. 4 With that said, you are absolutely welcome to say 5 despite that, we think it could be problematic. 6 And so I just wanted to make sure no one was 7 voting based on the fact that this might not 8 comport to the legislative authority. 9 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Greg, 10 always good to have your voice and clarification. 11 All right. 12 comments on this portfolio? 13 Is there any other questions or All right, then. Hearing none, the 14 committee will now score the obverse and reverse 15 design candidates for the 2016 quarter 16 commemorating suffrage. 17 please return your score sheets to CCAC counsel, 18 Greg Weinman, and we will take a roughly ten 19 minute break, returning at 3:30. 20 meantime Greg will tally the scores, so thank 21 you. 22 When you are done, And in the (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 23 went off the record at 3:16 p.m. and resumed at 24 3:30 p.m.) 25 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Jennifer, we are www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 241 1 back. And I recognize Greg Weinman, Counsel to 2 the CCAC to present the results from the scoring 3 sheet. So, Gary, if you would please. 4 MR. WEINMAN: Thank you. And this one 5 might not give the same level of clarity as the 6 last one, just as a teaser. 7 So going back to, this is Obverse 8 Number 1. So Observe Number 1, 18 points out of 9 a possible 30. 10 points. 11 seven points. 01A is nine, received nine 01B received 20 points. 12 MEMBER MORAN: 13 MR. WEINMAN: 14 getter but not by a lot. 15 02 received Well that's clear. So 20 is the high vote Moving on to the reverse. Reverse 1 16 received 21 points making it the high scoring 17 design. 18 received four, Reverse 4 received 18 votes. 19 not as high as Reverse 1 but close. 20 received nine points. 21 two. 22 Reverse 2 received nine, Reverse 3 So Reverse 5 And Reverse 6 received CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, Greg, 23 thank you very much. At this juncture we'll have 24 a few comments before we move on to our next 25 portfolio, if there are any. Are there any www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 242 1 comments? 2 3 MEMBER MORAN: wandered off. 4 5 Somewhere the mic has I'll speak loudly. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay. Mike, here's the mic. 6 (Laughter.) 7 MEMBER MORAN: I could take 1A and 1B, 8 I gave them both threes. 9 my vote from number 1 to 1b and give it, since it 10 So I'm happy to change was the majority. 11 (Laughter.) 12 MEMBER MORAN: 13 a clear 23 versus 15. 14 15 And that will give it CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, Mike, thank you for that comment. 16 MEMBER MORAN: Yes. 17 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 18 DR. BLACK: Yes, Dr. Black? Thank you all. I would 19 just like to make a historian's nit-picky comment 20 here. 21 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 22 DR. BLACK: Yes, please. The appropriate term to 23 refer to Americans who were involved in the women 24 suffrage campaign is suffragists. 25 E-T-T-E-S is the British term for Pankhurst and I-S-T-S. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 The Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 243 1 Company. 2 So I just wanted to encourage my 3 colleagues to call the women what they called 4 themselves. 5 a part of this. 6 Thank you. And I was grateful to be CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Dr. Black, we 7 appreciate those comments. 8 the American side will certainly try to use the 9 appropriate term. 10 11 And those of us on Any other comments from our guests or from the Committee at this point? 12 All right. Well I, again, would very much like to 13 thank Angela Tate, Jennifer Herrera and Allida 14 Black for your observations and comments, and for 15 joining us today. 16 17 So thank you again. MS. HERRERA: Thank you for having us. Bye. 18 DR. BLACK: Thank you. 19 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right. So we 20 will now consider the obverse and reverse design 21 candidates for the final of the five inflection 22 quarters. 23 civil rights. 24 will now present portfolios. 25 This is the 2026 quarter commemorating And April Stafford and Russ Evans MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 First some Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 244 1 background. 2 Americans following the Civil War the 14th and 3 15th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution were 4 enacted with the intention of ensuring equal 5 protection under the law regardless of race. 6 However, these rights were impeded by states that 7 implemented Jim Crow laws to limit the rights of 8 African-Americans. 9 decisions that undermined the Amendments' intent. 10 To address issues faced by African- As well as Supreme Court An important example is the 1896 11 Supreme Court decision in Plessy v. Ferguson, 12 which upheld state mandated segregation laws 13 declaring the phrase "separate but equal as the 14 law of the land." 15 The pursuit of civil rights gained 16 momentum in part as a result of Black 17 servicemen's experiences in World War II. 18 fighting fascism abroad as a part of the United 19 States Military, many African-American veterans 20 returned to the United States determined to end 21 segregation and discrimination, seeking to 22 achieve the equal rights and liberties they 23 fought for overseas. After 24 In 1954 United States Supreme Court 25 overturned Plessy v. Ferguson declaring through www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 245 1 its landmark ruling on Brown v. Board of 2 Education that school segregation was 3 unconstitutional. 4 old Emmett Till was brutally murdered by White 5 supremacists during his visit with relatives near 6 Money, Mississippi. 7 Parks to challenge the practice of racial 8 segregation and public transportation. 9 actions led to the historic Montgomery Bus 10 11 Just one year later, 14 year His death compelled Rosa Her Boycotts. In 1957 Reverend Dr. Martin Luther 12 King, Jr. met with other Black faith leaders and 13 formally mounted a nonviolent protest movement 14 rallying against racial discrimination and for 15 social justice. 16 gathering in our nation's history, a quarter of a 17 million people attended the 1963 march on 18 Washington for jobs and freedom where King 19 delivered his powerful "I have a dream" speech. 20 These and many more courageous acts At the largest civil rights 21 formed the modern Civil Rights Movement which 22 culminated in the passage of the 1964 Civil 23 Rights Act, the 1965 Voting Rights Act, and the 24 1968 Fair Housing Act. 25 The Civil Rights Movement was composed www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 246 1 of countless acts of advocacy, a determined 2 pursuit to persuade the nation to rebut to the 3 ideals of equality, freedom, liberty, democracy 4 and justice for all. 5 Some background on Ruby Bridges. On 6 November 14th, 1960, 6 year old Ruby Bridges made 7 history as she marched into William Frantz 8 Elementary School escorted by her mother and four 9 armed federal marshals. All the White students 10 stayed home from school the day Ruby entered the 11 elementary school. 12 Ruby continued her studies without 13 missing a day despite being the only student as 14 others refused to attend class with her. 15 faced racist vitriol, needed to be escorted by 16 federal marshals every day for her safety, and 17 was taught by the only teacher willing to work 18 with her. 19 protestors, including one who carried a black 20 baby doll in a coffin. 21 She She was confronted by White She ate lunch alone. The Civil Rights Movement required not 22 only the sacrifices of countless brave 23 individuals, but also the support of their loved 24 ones often impacted by the trauma of being on the 25 front lines of this struggle. Ruby's actions, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 247 1 for example, resulted in her father's job loss 2 and her sharecropping grandparents' eviction, yet 3 the family endured and worked together to make a 4 difference as they supported the little girl who 5 bravely marched forward every day. 6 In 1960 the small but mighty, then 7 unknown young girl, stared down hate and marched 8 her way into the American national conscience. 9 She helped to change the world and advance the 10 Civil Rights Movement. 11 The obverse of this quarter features 12 the concept of liberty, as depicted by 6 year old 13 Ruby Bridges. 14 Rights Movement, the resilience of its advocates, 15 and the reassertion of our country's founding 16 principles. 17 unum, in God we trust, and 1776 through 2026. 18 She symbolizes the larger Civil Inscriptions include E pluribus The reverse is emblematic of the Civil 19 Rights Movement and its quest to work through 20 division and strive for equality, all in pursuit 21 of a more perfect union. 22 liberty, United States of America, and quarter 23 dollar and civil rights. 24 25 Inscriptions include We are so pleased again to have with us today Ruby Bridges. Along with her associate www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 248 1 in her philanthropic initiatives, Mr. Lance 2 Volland. 3 Elliott, who is curator at the National Museum of 4 African-American history and culture. 5 And we also have again with us Mary So if it's okay, Mr. Chairman, I'll 6 move through the observe and reverse candidate 7 designs and perhaps you'd like to call on our 8 stakeholders? 9 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 10 MS. STAFFORD: 11 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 12 MS. STAFFORD: Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. So we'll start with 13 obverse designs. 14 6 year old Ruby Bridges and profile. 15 books clutched to her chest. 16 gentle gaze highlights both her resolve to 17 receive an education and her youthful innocence 18 placing a young girl at the forefront of historic 19 change. 20 Obverses 1, 1A and 1B feature a Her school Her steadfast but The designs illustrate how America's 21 foundational ideals of liberty and equality are 22 reaffirmed throughout its history by courageous 23 acts that galvanized the nation to fulfill its 24 bold promises. 25 In the background of 1A, seen here, a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 249 1 silhouette of children can be seen walking to 2 school. 3 U.S. marshal. 4 to Ruby's safety and the pervasive violence of 5 the era. In design 1B she is escorted by a deputy 6 A somber reminder of the threats Obverse 2 showcases a full length 7 portrait of 6 year old Ruby Bridges, school books 8 clutched in her hand. 9 stride captures her youthful innocence and the Her soft yet purposeful 10 significance of the moment. 11 of silhouetted children can be seen. 12 children, representing all who came after Ruby 13 know only an America shaped by her actions and 14 those who fought for civil rights. 15 Behind Ruby a line These Obverse 3 depicts young Ruby Bridges 16 seated at her desk in her classroom. 17 forward intent to learn and receive an education. 18 The desks around her remain empty as no White 19 parents would allow their children to be educated 20 with her starkly highlighting the prejudice of 21 the era. 22 She gazes And finally Obverse 4 features 6 year 23 old Ruby Bridges in profile. Her youthful 24 features and bow in her hair emphasizing her 25 tender age. Other children are cast in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 250 1 silhouettes symbolizing the powerful and 2 cascading impact of the Civil Rights Movement. 3 This design exemplifies the power of every day 4 Americans no matter their age to catalyze 5 transformational social change. 6 And the reverse designs. We have 7 Reverses 1, 2 and 2A that depict Americans locked 8 arm-in-arm as they march evoking one of the most 9 iconic moments of the Civil Rights Movement, the 10 Selma-to-Montgomery marches. 11 gender moving forward with steely determination 12 echoed in the inscription, "we shall overcome." 13 They span age and These designs are a striking tribute 14 to the collective courage, unity and strength 15 demonstrated by those who fought for a more 16 equitable future. 17 Americans when united in purpose and action are 18 the driving force behind transformative change 19 that defines the nation's character and reshapes 20 its future. 21 They powerfully illustrate how Reverse 3 features a pair of clasped 22 hands set against a waving American flag 23 representing the every day Americans who joined 24 together to fight for equality during the Civil 25 Rights Movement. This powerful imagery www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 251 1 reinforces the idea that America's founding ideas 2 are fundamentally grounded in unity. 3 the struggle for civil rights through its iconic 4 phrase, "we shall overcome." 5 It binds Reverses 4 and 5 show civil rights 6 marchers walking across a bridge referencing the 7 1965 Selma-to-Montgomery marches. 8 marches held along the 54 mile highway between 9 the two cities. Three protest They move in unwavering 10 solidarity undeterred by the significant violence 11 and injustice that lay in their path. 12 By hoisting American flags as they 13 cross the bridge, this diverse group of citizens 14 sends a clear and profound message, through 15 collective action they're bridging the gap 16 between America's founding ideals and the stark 17 reality of inequality that plagues the nation. 18 They demonstrate that the struggle for civil 19 rights is a call of action for the nation to 20 reaffirm its founding ideals of equality and 21 freedom aligning itself with the vision of 22 democracy laid out in the founding documents. 23 Reverse 6 depicts a young boy as he 24 holds an American flag across his shoulders. 25 joyful expression and open arms embodying what www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 His Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 252 1 the Civil Rights Movement fought for. 2 a just and equitable feature. 3 A hope for Behind him, profiles of diverse 4 Americans come together symbolizing the coalition 5 necessary to fight for civil rights. 6 figures also illustrate that the American ideals 7 of liberty and freedom apply to all citizens 8 regardless of background to truly reflect the 9 fullest expression of our nation's ideals. These 10 And finally Reverse 7 depicts the 11 scales of justice with the weighty promise of 12 liberty tipping down to one side. 13 side a man is helped onto the scale acknowledging 14 the work of civil rights activists to balance the 15 scales. 16 On the other This design illustrates that the power 17 lies with the people to uplift one another. 18 Americas collective effort in striving to meet 19 the ideals of liberty, freedom and equality set 20 out in our founding principles. 21 the commemorative designs. 22 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: That concludes Thank you very much. 23 I'd like to recognize that Ruby Bridges is in 24 fact with us this afternoon, if even virtually. 25 And I know that I speak on behalf of the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 253 1 Committee that we are absolutely thrilled, Ms. 2 Bridges, that you are with us today. 3 welcome you at this point to address the 4 committee if you would like. 5 MS. BRIDGES: And I would So please do. First I want to say I am 6 so humbled. I said this the very first time that 7 I actually was presented with this huge 8 responsibility. 9 unfolding right before my eyes is absolutely But to be a part of history 10 amazing for me. 11 much for the opportunity to be a part of this. 12 So I want to say thank you so And thank you so much for the 13 opportunity to even, to be considered for such a 14 project. 15 v. Board from 1954, which is actually the year 16 that I was born. 17 this year. 18 I heard you all speak about the Brown So needless to say I turn 70 And once I was presented with this 19 idea I thought, okay, maybe it's now time for me 20 to get my will together because -- 21 (Laughter.) 22 MS. BRIDGES: 23 24 25 -- that's actually what this felt like. I am, I cannot express how humbled I am just to be considered for such a project. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 254 1 really appreciate the opportunity. 2 appreciate you allowing me to just sit in and 3 hear what you are discussing. 4 interested in what I have to say. 5 And that you're So it has been quite, just 6 overwhelming for me. 7 up to this. 8 9 And I I just hope that I can live So thank you. Thank you so much. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Again, it is truly our pleasure to have you with us today. 10 Volland, if you would like to address the 11 Committee as well at this time please do. 12 MR. VOLLAND: No. Mr. I appreciate being 13 here as well. 14 privileged position of having worked with Ruby 15 for quite some time. 16 You know, I sit in the very I first met Ruby 25 years ago when 17 Disney made the movie of her story. 18 started off working as a board member of her 19 foundation, and then when I left my career in the 20 movie business I started working with her on all 21 of her different business and philanthropic 22 endeavors. 23 And I And I have to tell you I'm not, I know 24 she's surprised, I'm not entirely surprised by 25 this. What I have seen over the years is that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 255 1 her story is incredibly impactful way beyond any 2 of us could ever imagine. 3 And she often talks about how her 4 story is much bigger than she is who, as an 5 individual. 6 around the world, when she is doing anything, the 7 impact is great. 8 9 And I see it when she is speaking So I actually can understand why 6 year old Ruby is being considered for this 10 incredible honor because she does stand for so 11 much. 12 sacrifice. 13 of her family and the community. Whether it's bravery and courage and 14 Not just of young Ruby, but certainly And what is amazing is to see that 15 Ruby at 70 is still persevering just like she 16 always has. 17 inspiring. 18 and to listen in. 19 And it's incredibly, incredibly So I thank you also for allowing here CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Mr. Volland, thank 20 you very much. 21 you are with us as well, so if you'd like to 22 address the Committee at this time please do. 23 Ms. Elliott, I understand that MS. ELLIOTT: I am, thank you. And I 24 had the pleasure of giving a tour to Ms. Bridges 25 when she came to the museum. And I can say that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 256 1 she is a genuinely humble person. 2 And to the statement about living up 3 to this moment, I think you lived up to the 4 moment the day you walked towards that school. 5 And you continue to do it every day, even leading 6 up to your 70th birthday. 7 reason why you make such a powerful subject for 8 this coin. 9 So it is the very And it could have been John Lewis, it 10 could have been Constance Baker Motley. 11 have been a person who was a working class White 12 person fighting for economic justice or a Latino 13 person, Asian, Pacific-Islander person, anyone. 14 A disabled person. 15 speaks volumes to the innocence of a child, 16 small, but mighty. 17 It could But I think your story really So I think everyone owes you a debt a 18 gratitude. 19 conversation about civil rights, so thank you. 20 And it really opens up the And thank you, everyone, because I've 21 enjoyed our conversations, listening in to you 22 all. 23 thank you, I really appreciate it. To your conversations, it's brilliant. 24 25 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Elliott. So Thank you again, Ms. Let's begin with our discussion of this www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 257 1 portfolio, but first I want to ask if there are 2 any technical or legal questions from the 3 Committee about the program or these designs for 4 the 2026 quarter commemorating civil rights 5 before we begin our individual discussions? 6 right. 7 8 All Well hearing none, I would like to begin with Annelisa Purdie, if you would please. 9 MEMBER PURDIE: Thank you, Mr. 10 Chairman. 11 you, Mr. Volland. 12 Ruby Bridges for being here. 13 Thank you again, Ms. Elliott, thank And thank you so much to Ms. There aren't words enough to thank you 14 for what you've done and what you've contributed. 15 And I just want to say the world is a better 16 place because you're in it. 17 what you've done but because of who you are as a 18 person, and we're honored to have you here. 19 thank you. 20 21 Not just because of So Thank you so much. MS. BRIDGES: Thank you. I appreciate it. 22 MEMBER PURDIE: Going on to the 23 designs. I liked all of these for a myriad of 24 reasons, but the one that stood out to me the 25 most was 01B with the federal marshal. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I just Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 258 1 want to say these designs are gorgeous. 2 tell that the designers studied all the details 3 down to the dress and the hairstyle and the 4 facial expressions. 5 I can They're done very well. I also enjoyed Obverse 01 and 01A. 6 But for me 01B was especially important in terms 7 of establishing context in that it's not simply 8 about going to school but the fact that the 9 federal marshals had to be there in order to 10 protect Ms. Bridges, who was a baby at the time, 11 from such unimaginable abuse. 12 this establishes that context very well. 13 It's very clear. And I think that I like the way that 14 the marshal's arm surrounds her, but at the same 15 time the focus is still on her, it does not 16 detract from her at all. 17 very, very useful. 18 choice. 19 And I think that that's So that's the one that's my I also love 03. I've seen this 20 picture before as well. 21 her face looking up just eager to learn. 22 Just the expression on For the reverses, the one that I was 23 drawn to the most was 03. I think that it's very 24 simple but it's very effective with the clasped 25 hands and the statement "we shall overcome." www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 259 1 think that it represents that sense of unity very 2 well. 3 American flag in the background around the hands 4 as well and how that ties into the way that many 5 marchers, during this time, did carry the 6 American flag. 7 our birthright. And I think it's very poignant to have the 8 9 We are Americans too and this is I also liked Reverse 4. The details on all of the marchers are very, done very well. 10 Again, I think it's framed very well. 11 some concerns about civil rights being taken over 12 by the flag. 13 because of the size of the quarter how that would 14 be portrayed on a quarter. 15 this definitely works. 16 I do have And from there having, again, But overall I think And just as a commentary to something 17 that Kellen mentioned during our last portfolio 18 in talking about Frederick Douglass, I also want 19 to pose a question to the Committee about putting 20 Ruby Bridges's name on the quarter itself. 21 believe that everyone should know who she is, the 22 same way that everyone should know who Frederick 23 Douglass is. 24 25 I But I do like the effect of Obverse 4, in which her name is prominently displayed on the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 260 1 bottom of the quarter so that there is no 2 question who this is, even though those images 3 are instantly recognizable. 4 that when looking through this portfolio I was 5 considering in going back and forth on. 6 that's it for me, thank you so much. 7 8 9 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: But that's something And Thank you very much. Dr. Christopher Capozzola, if you would please. MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: All right. So this 10 is Chris Capozzola. 11 the comments that were made before about thanks 12 to our liaisons. 13 Bridges for being with us here today and for 14 letting us share your story. 15 American history with the pocket change of 16 millions of people in 2026. 17 I just want to, I think echo And particularly to Ruby It's part of I'm going to go in reverse order and 18 try to think through this coin in conjunction 19 with some of the other quarters that we are 20 considering and start with the reverses. I 21 actually like, very strongly, Reverse 5. I think 22 it is, it conveys the Civil Rights Movement as a 23 movement, both in the sense of people, 24 multiplicity of people, and people in motion. 25 And I think that's very important to convey. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 261 1 will resonate with some of what may likely be 2 happening in the women's suffrage quarter that 3 will precede it. 4 And working, and part of the reason 5 that I want to see motion there has to do with my 6 thoughts on the obverse. 7 appreciate, as a historian, Obverse 1B as perhaps 8 the most historically accurate. 9 complex dynamic of some relatively disempowered I will say I It conveys this 10 young woman and the federal government that's 11 intervening to ensure her access to equal rights 12 and civil rights. 13 complex for a coin. 14 I just think it might be too And in that sense I also understand 15 why something like 2, Obverse 2, would be a 16 perfect mirror image to the motion that we'll see 17 in the women's suffrage quarter. 18 understand the appeal of that. 19 But I would like to draw the attention 20 of the Committee to Obverse 1. 21 on this Committee we overthink. 22 to do too much. 23 And so I Sometimes I think We ask quarters And I look at this image and this is, 24 this is perfect, I think, to me. This could be 25 the iconic image of the semiquincentennial. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 This Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 262 1 is immediately legible and resonates with 2 Americans across the political spectrum. 3 conveys its message across the top, E pluribus 4 unum. 5 It For those who know who Ruby Bridges is 6 and her story it resonates. For those who do not 7 it conveys enough to make, to connect and to make 8 them want to find out more. 9 the CCAC, or the Mint has an opportunity here to And so I think that 10 really make a significant intervention into the 11 semiquincentennial and making this the iconic 12 image of 2026. 13 14 Thank you. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you very much. Donald Scarinci, if you would please. 15 MEMBER SCARINCI: So, you know, can I, 16 would you mind if I asked a couple of questions 17 to some of our members? 18 19 Mike, you're doing a book about SaintGaudens. 20 MEMBER MORAN: 21 MEMBER SCARINCI: 22 Renaissance. 23 use models? Yes. And the American And Weinman in Gaudens, didn't they 24 MEMBER MORAN: Yes, they did. 25 MEMBER SCARINCI: And I also remember www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 263 1 Paul Costello, he used a model for the 2017 coin. 2 And as I pass the coin of the year what I see is, 3 what I remember Don Everhart telling us is that 4 in the March of Dimes commemorative, that's his 5 granddaughter as a model in that coin. 6 So, you know, it's interesting that, 7 you know, this is, the argument and the issue of 8 putting a living person on a coin, that doesn't 9 apply here at all. This is not what we're doing. 10 And unless we use Number 4, right, unless we use 11 Number 4, that's not what we're doing. 12 using the image and the iconic, you know, what it 13 has become, iconic, about the struggle in the 14 movement in the early days. 15 We're And the image is what's iconic. And 16 it's the image that, of Ruby Bridges that creates 17 the power of this coin and its ability to 18 communicate, the theme that we are looking to 19 communicate today. 20 So I think I'm really at peace, you 21 know, with, because this isn't the first time, 22 this isn't, you know, this isn't an issue in this 23 coin. 24 said, you know, any one of these designs does it. 25 It's just not an issue. So with that I personally, you know, I personally www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 264 1 like 1A, you know, Obverse 1A or Obverse 02, 2 because while I understand what the professor is 3 saying, you know, that 1 is clean, it's easy, but 4 I, you know, I think we've all seen what Joe 5 Menna's team does with images like 1A and 02. 6 These, the background is more, you 7 know, it's either going to be incuse I would 8 guess or it's going to be more subtle. 9 not going to be over, it's not going to overpower And it's 10 the image in 1A or the image in 02. 11 show that what Ruby Bridges did, you know, she 12 suffered alone for sure, but she was not alone. 13 There were a lot of people there behind her. 14 Yet it will And forgive me if I'm misspeaking, 15 Ruby. It's more difficult when the subject is 16 here. But, you know, but I think this is going 17 to be a great coin. 18 coin of the portfolio. 19 I agree this will be the And in terms of reverses there are 20 some good ones to choose. 21 or 3, you know, I think are great. 22 reverse, I'm sorry, 1, 2 or 2A. 23 I mean, Reverses 1, 2 The only, the Reverse 3, you know, is a, you know, 24 the artist here gets absolute merit for doing, 25 hands are very difficult to do on coins and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 265 1 medallic art. The hands work here. 2 like it works, but I won't say that until Jeanne 3 speaks about that to tell me, you're wrong, it's 4 not going to work. 5 (Laughter.) 6 MEMBER SCARINCI: It looks You know, but my 7 preference would be for, my preference would be 8 for, on the obverse, 01A, 02. 9 reverse, you know, I really like the "we shall And on the 10 overcome" in here and I like it bold. 11 probably either 2 or 2A would be the reverses 12 that stand out to me. 13 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 14 very much. 15 Donald's concerns? So Donald, thank you Jeanne, would you like to now address 16 (Laughter.) 17 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: 18 address them. 19 Jeanne Stevens-Sollman. 20 Donald, for setting me up. I will Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is I, and thank you, 21 (Laughter.) 22 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: I think I 23 would like to start with the reverse because this 24 is fresh in your minds, of what we are saying 25 about, "we shall overcome." And I agree with www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 266 1 Donald, 01, 02, 02A for me are the powerful ones. 2 And 02 and 02A, because "we shall overcome" is 3 very bold. 4 marches were very important. 5 And I think what happened on those 03 I don't think has enough 6 information. 7 there's more power in the people marching. 8 vote would go to 02 and 02A. 9 The hands may be okay, but I think So my However, now we go to the obverse. 10 And these designs are just lovely. 11 they're touching and empowering. 12 problem that I have with them is, I would like to 13 see her name on them. 14 that idea, but if, we don't have to have it huge, 15 but just so people understand who this young 16 person is and what she has gone through and what 17 she is going through as she marches across these 18 coins. 19 I just think And the only Now some folks don't like 02 is wonderful. And if we could just 20 put Ruby Bridges on the bottom maybe that would 21 be great. 22 But 01B, I love the fact that the 23 marshal is embracing her, is helping her, not 24 just helping her open the door but helping her 25 face all that she is going to have to do. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 267 1 those are my choices, my opinions. 2 3 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: very much. 4 Thank you. Jeanne, thank you Art Bernstein, if you would please. MEMBER BERNSTEIN: Thanks. This is 5 Art Bernstein. I listened to what Annelisa had 6 to say and what Chris had to say, and I find them 7 both correct. 8 (Laughter.) 9 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: So I liked Obverse 10 1 and I liked Obverse 1B with the marshal. 11 I believe is correct that perhaps I over think 12 it, but I like the story of the marshal being 13 involved. 14 situation. 15 Chris The marshals being involved in this And I recall at our administrative 16 meeting something that Joe Menna pointed out at 17 the very end of the meeting, that that design 18 with the marshal is loosely based, or relates to 19 the famous Norman Rockwell painting in which 20 marshals, several marshals, are escorting Ruby 21 Bridges through her school. 22 think there's real value in 1B. 23 To her school. So I For the reverses I agree with Jeanne 24 in that I like the approach of the marches. 25 think those were important historical elements. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 268 1 I preferred 1 to 2. 2 marchers actually holding the banner rather than 3 it being printed above and below them. 4 it just showed that they were, that that was part 5 of the march. 6 that design. 7 8 I liked the activity of the And my preference would be for Thank you. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: thank you very much. 9 I thought All right, Art, Sam Gelberd, you please. MEMBER GELBERD: Thank you, Peter. 10 This is Sam Gelberd. And again, I just want to 11 thank the liaisons, especially Ms. Bridges for 12 being with us today, it's an incredible honor to 13 meet you, albeit virtually. 14 MS. BRIDGES: Thank you. 15 MEMBER GELBERD: Thanks to you. So 16 with the obverses I do believe all of them are 17 worthy of artistic merit. 18 trying to figure out exactly which one to go 19 with. 20 Obverse 2. 21 top vote. 22 A little bit difficult I do like the silhouetted figures in And that is the one that will get my All of the ones for 1, 1A and 1B, I do 23 like them as well. I love the way 1B tells a 24 story, and I could live with that one. 25 it's great based on everything that everyone else www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I think Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 269 1 has already said. 2 The issue I have with 01A, just at the 3 bottom where it says, in God we trust, just 4 having it divided like that I think it loses 5 something. 6 may not like it. Some people may not appreciate that, 7 Reverse 01, or I'm sorry, Obverse 1 is 8 wonderful in its simplicity. 9 design. Very elegant, great But I do like having the marchers in the 10 back. The silhouetted figures. Again, it will 11 go right along with some of the other designs 12 we've seen, especially with the suffragist 13 quarter. 14 looking at. The suffrage quarter that we were 15 As far as the reverses are concerned, 16 I do like seeing our we shall overcome. 17 very powerful message for our Reverses 1 and 2. 18 I do like Reverse 3 as well with the hands. 19 That's probably my favorite where it comes to a, 20 we shall overcome. 21 Using that motto. But I definitely think the Pettus 22 Bridge should be a part of this design. 23 very iconic, very important to Selma to 24 Montgomery. 25 It's a It was If we went with Reverse 5 we could www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 270 1 hear similar uproar that arose in 2017 with the 2 release of the Ellis Island quarter. 3 remember the American flag on the back of that 4 quarter there are no stars. 5 people in the numismatic community that they were 6 not pleased by that. 7 Reverse 5 it does not show any stars on the flag. 8 So therefore I'd opt for Reverse 4 as 9 my favorite. If you And I did hear from And if you notice our Albeit I think we should reduce the 10 size of the American flag a little bit so that 11 we're not obscuring the word rights. 12 that being said, yes, Reverses 6 and 7, very 13 artistic as well, just think they kind of miss 14 the mark. 15 16 So my votes will be for Obverse 2 and for Reverse Number 4. 17 18 19 So with Thank you. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: much. Sam, thank you very John Saunders, if you would please. MEMBER SAUNDERS: Thank you, Peter. 20 John Saunders here. For the obverse I liked the 21 first four pretty well. 22 design of 5, the 3rd one, which is 03. 23 thought 04, having the kind of photograph like 24 picture and then a kind of painted on ribbon made 25 it not work real well. I just didn't like the And I I just didn't like the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 271 1 way it went together. 2 But again, I like the idea of the 3 marshal for the story, but I'm with what people 4 have said before, I think it gets too busy. 5 think people figure out the story. 6 Google Ruby Bridges and figure that out pretty 7 quick if they want to learn a little bit more. 8 9 I like 01. it. I They can I like the simplicity of I don't think we need the silhouettes in the 10 background. 11 stands out as a coin. 12 object to the idea of putting Ruby Bridges' name 13 down at the bottom like where in God we trust is 14 on the next thing, or otherwise the mint fields 15 could be fitted in. 16 necessary but I don't think it does any harm. 17 I like something that just kind of So I'm a 01 fan. I don't I don't think its absolutely I think it's important that we 18 remember that while we're commemorating Ruby and 19 the fact that she probably had it more intense 20 than anybody else, there are hundreds of 21 thousands, actually, you know, millions of people 22 in the Civil Rights Movement are just, that were 23 living in the south that were treated badly when 24 they went through with the integration of 25 schools, of transportation, of restrooms, of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 272 1 everything. 2 And it was, I think she's symbolic as 3 well as a person here and I think we need to keep 4 that in mind. 5 name on it at all, I think it's fine. 6 qualms like Don does about putting a living her 7 here. I have no It doesn't bother me a bit. 8 9 That said, I don't mind having her In terms of the reverse, I like 1, 2, 4 and 5. With one thing on 5. I see the bridge 10 continues when you look closely, but when you 11 first glance at that it looks like they're a 12 bunch of lemmings walking off the edge of the 13 cliff. 14 continue. 15 it back a little bit so that the bridge clearly 16 extends beyond the pillar there and goes on to 17 things. 18 I mean, it looks like the bridge doesn't So I think if we use 5 we need to pull I also wouldn't mind on 4 or 5 putting 19 we shall overcome as opposed to saying civil 20 rights. 21 So we can play with the legends there. I like 4 that has a bunch of real 22 people there. I agree with what Sam says, even 23 though you probably won't be able to see them, we 24 should at least put some effort on the, to show 25 that there are stars on the American flags for www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 273 1 both the one in the background and 4. 2 them in 5. 3 to see there are individual stars but you can 4 certainly see that there's something there that 5 would be the stars. 6 I mean, you're not going to be able 06, you know, it's kind of cute but I 7 don't really like it. 8 much for me. 9 And 07 really doesn't do 03 is nice but I don't think it says 10 what we need to say here. 11 4 and 5 say it a lot better. 12 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 13 And all of I think, again, 1, 2, Thank you. Thank you very much. Kellen Hoard, if you would please. 14 MEMBER HOARD: 15 is Kellen Hoard. 16 this coin. 17 Yes, thank you. This And I am very excited about I still appreciate Ms. Bridges joining 18 us today at 4:00 p.m. on a weekday for a niche 19 government committee meeting taking place in a 20 great conference room deep in the deep recesses 21 of a government building where we talk about 22 fonts. You know, I appreciate her being here. 23 (Laughter.) 24 MEMBER HOARD: 25 So to me, as a student who just graduated high school and learned about www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 274 1 Ruby Bridges, of course I am so eager for the 2 Mint to hopefully put these coins in every 3 classroom. 4 I'm happy to help any way I can in that. 5 I think it would be a great tool and To me Obverse 1 is absolutely 6 striking. Young Ruby is alone but looking upward 7 with a calm confidence. 8 ready to learn. 9 detailed portrait. She's carrying her books It's a beautifully drawn One which properly lists her 10 courage alongside that of the president's 11 portrait she's taking the place of, and 12 rightfully so. 13 design and will be getting my support. 14 This is a simple and powerful I tend away from the other ones 15 because part of what's so stunning and important 16 about this story is that she was the only one 17 there as the White students pulled out. 18 in many senses alone and having other figures in 19 the background, are guiding her, distracts I 20 think from the impact of her being there by 21 herself courageously. 22 of American patriotism and civil rights that 23 we're uplifting and we don't need to over think 24 that or overdo it or distract from it. 25 She was She is, to me, the emblem And Obverse 1 demonstrates that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 275 1 wonderfully, and I think it will be an important 2 tool in classrooms. 3 think, as with the Frederick Douglass coin, we 4 don't need to include the name here. 5 all, because it distracts from the simplicity, 6 but second, we don't do that for anybody else 7 currently, and I don't think we need to for this 8 one. 9 broader movement on this coin. And as a side note, I really First of Especially because she is emblematic of a 10 In terms of reverses I'm particularly 11 drawn to 1. 12 2 and 2A. 13 executed, thematically appropriate, visually 14 powerful designs, which recall the most iconic 15 images from the '60s, but they do one thing in 16 particular quite well. 17 right in front of the marchers looking at them 18 head on. 19 It's going to pop up there. Yes, 1, Not only are they well balanced, well They place the viewer They force American's to hold these 20 coins in their hands, look at the protesters and 21 really consider where they would have stood or 22 where they do stand now and what they're going to 23 do going forward. 24 going forward to contribute to continue progress 25 in our country. Where they're going to stand www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 276 1 To see these marchers head on is a 2 very unique experience and we ought not to take 3 away that power by having them march adjacent to 4 or away from the viewer. 5 by far the most powerful thing we can do. 6 7 So for me those, I will be voting for Obverse 1 and Reverses 1, 2 and 2A. 8 9 Having them head on is CHAIR VAN ALFEN: very much. 10 Thank you. Kellen, thank you Mike Moran, if you would please. MEMBER MORAN: Thank you, Peter. 11 is Mike Moran. 12 satisfactions of serving on this Committee is 13 that every once in a while you meet, get an 14 opportunity to meet somebody that has a 15 significant role in what I call the American 16 story. This One of the pleasures that I have, Thank you, Ruby. 17 MS. BRIDGES: 18 MEMBER MORAN: Thank you. Turning to the obverse, 19 I like 1, 2, 1A and 1B. And the problem with 1B 20 is what Chris said, you can't do it, the image of 21 Ruby needs negative space around her. 22 marshal eats it up on the one side. 23 which is absolutely superfluous to the image 24 there, needs to just go away. 25 given the opportunity if my vote counts for The The door, I'm not going to, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 277 1 anything anyway. 2 We voted against the silhouette of the 3 suffragette. 4 1. 5 great image. So that side, to me, I will go with As Chris said, it's crisp, clean, really 6 And I think it says enough. On the reverse, it is a question to me 7 as to how much emphasis we want to place on we 8 shall overcome. 9 easily forgotten at best. On 1, it matters there but it's And people are there, 10 but again, a quarter, not as strong as they maybe 11 should be. 12 Moving to the next one, that's much 13 stronger. 14 People are there, the determination is there with 15 the locked hands. 16 of the lot. 17 It is in your face, it is bold. That one, to me, is the best I was drawn to 04. Let's look at 04. 18 I felt like although the artist is very careful 19 to say that's not the John Pettus Bridge but a 20 bridge, felt like the bridge needed to be in a 21 march going through Selma. 22 have here is, again, it tries to do too much on a 23 quarter. 24 25 But the problem I Worthy as the image itself is, it does not work on a quarter. The problem I have with www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 278 1 that one, the problem I have with the U.S. 2 marshal. 3 protection, but it will not work on a quarter, 4 you will have to get a loupe out to look at it. 5 Thank you, Peter. I love the arm around her shoulder, the 6 7 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you very much. 8 9 Thanks, Mike. As to my own comments, I have to agree with many of the Committee Members, particular 10 Mr. Capozzola, in underscoring how iconic Obverse 11 Number 1 is, and certainly could be, on a 12 circulating coin. 13 image associated with this program going forward. 14 I would certainly be very happy to see this on a 15 circulating coin. 16 And how this could be the However, I do have somewhat of a 17 preference for Number 2. 18 makes a very clear reference, I think, to that 19 iconic 1964 painting that my colleague, Art 20 Bernstein, referenced. 21 name of The Problem We All Live With that Norman 22 Rockwell painted. 23 In part because this This is a painting by the Where Ruby Bridges is walking, 24 effectively alone, although she has four marshals 25 around her. Two of the marshals in front, two of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 279 1 the marshals in back. 2 heads because Rockwell decided to emphasize how 3 small and powerless in a way Ruby Bridges was 4 compared to both the events and the scene walking 5 past a wall on which is spray painted the N word 6 with tomatoes splattered against it that were 7 thrown at her by protestors. 8 9 And you do not see their So that painting itself is very iconic, very powerful. And walking Ruby in this 10 sense really does, I think, make reference to 11 that painting. 12 It also then provides an opportunity 13 for us to make connections and continuities, 14 potentially, between some of the other obverse 15 designs in some of the other portfolios. 16 example, the walking Liberty/suffragist in the 17 previous portfolio, and potentially one of the 18 obverses, or some of the obverses in the walking 19 Liberty, or in the half dollar portfolio we'll be 20 reviewing tomorrow. 21 For So my preference would be for Number 22 2, although again, I would have absolutely no 23 problem with Number 1 as well. 24 Now as for the reverses I find Number 25 2 to be by far the most powerful reverse image of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 280 1 the lot. 2 as well as Mike Moran, that we are here really 3 confronting these marchers. 4 as the very strong horizontal aspect of this, I 5 think is very powerful. 6 And again, as Kellen Hoard emphasized, And alone, as well And the horizontal aspect of this 7 reverse could then also potentially tie into the 8 very strong horizontal aspects of one of the 9 reverses we've looked at in the previous 10 portfolio with the suffragists, again, 11 potentially making a connection there too. 12 So I will leave that there with my 13 comments. 14 Bridges again, if you would like to perhaps tell 15 us your preferences, or those designs that you 16 find to be most compelling in this portfolio? 17 And I would also invite now, Ms. MS. BRIDGES: Well I have to say that 18 has been really interesting listening to 19 everyone. 20 all on the same page. 21 And it seems like we're pretty much To start with, 01. And if you can put 22 it up so that, this is very powerful. 23 simple. 24 favorites from the very beginning. 25 It is very And I do believe that it was one of my It gets confusing when I see them all www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 281 1 together at one point, but I like the fact that 2 it's simple. 3 is one of the dresses that I wore. 4 say that I wore it until it pretty much fell off 5 of me. 6 I definitely see myself. And that And I always But this is one that we see a lot in 7 some of the other iconic photographs. 8 was one of the dresses that was used in the 9 Disney movie. 10 Also, it So I am more than sure that even young people will resonate with this. 11 You know, I have to remind you that 12 I've spent 25 years traveling across the country 13 and speaking to kids in schools. 14 call my fan base. 15 think. 16 That is what I So it matters to me what they I often say that if we are ever going 17 to get past our racial differences it's 18 definitely going to come from our kids. 19 for me how they actually feel about this is so 20 important. 21 future. 22 And so And they will be, they are our You know, what we want people to take 23 away from this is that we are moving forward. 24 And that we have to do this together. 25 leads me to the obverse. Which The hands together www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 282 1 definitely is symbolic for me. 2 We're not going to accomplish what we 3 need to accomplish to become the United States of 4 America if we're not going to do that together. 5 So I really liked this one. 6 The one, I had it marked here, I think 7 it's 1B. 8 powerful. Let me see that one. 1B. 9 This is 02. This was really Can I see 1B? Yes. This is the very first time that I've 10 seen this one. 11 fortunate enough to be a part of another meeting 12 about how powerful the federal marshals were. 13 You're right, they are a part of that iconic 14 painting. 15 We spoke about it when I was The fact that they do not have heads 16 spoke to the fact that it was what they stood for 17 was the country actually being behind this 18 movement. 19 for. 20 that, you know, they're right, we do need to 21 uphold this. 22 this one. 23 Which is what we all were fighting For the country to get behind us and say And that's what I see when I see I was really impressed, you know, 24 earlier when I saw it for the very first time. 25 It is a little busy, but I do like the fact that, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 283 1 yes, we all fought so very hard during the Civil 2 Rights Movement to move this country forward, but 3 eventually the country had to get behind us to 4 make that happen. 5 about this one. 6 And that's what speaks to me I also have Number 5. I think that's 7 the people crossing the bridge. This. I liked 8 this one because it represents how many people 9 actually came together to march for equal rights. 10 I had not paid attention to the fact 11 that there is no stars on the flag until someone 12 mentioned it earlier. 13 should be corrected. 14 attention to the fact that the bridge kind of 15 ends here. 16 many people. 17 first saw that. 18 I would agree that that And I had not paid But I like the fact that there are so That was impressive to me when I You have to also understand, whenever 19 I'm speaking to groups I always point out that 20 for me as a 6 year old, not knowing anything 21 about what was going on at the time, and I didn't 22 because my parents chose not to discuss this with 23 me. 24 where you were pretty much seen and not heard. 25 You could not be in the same room when adults I was raised in an African-American family www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 284 1 were having grownup conversations, so I wasn't 2 privileged to anything that was going on around 3 me. 4 I was only told you are going to go to 5 a new school today and you better behave. And I 6 have to tell you that's what I was concentrating 7 on is behaving. 8 But I, the minute I drove up in front 9 of the school and saw all of those people there I 10 wasn't aware of the hatred that was around me. 11 Living in New Orleans and seeing crowds of people 12 gather like that and to celebrate and have a 13 great time, I actually thought that's what was 14 happening. 15 The minute I got into the school, you 16 have to understand that at that point what I saw 17 play out before me was every parent that was 18 outside rushing in and removing their kids. 19 that school emptied out in front of me. 20 not realize that they were leaving school because 21 I was there. 22 school was over and those kids never came back. 23 So I did By the time the bell rang that day But what I want people to understand 24 is that the only person that agreed to teach me 25 was a White woman who came from Boston. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And she Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 285 1 greeted me every day. 2 see, or saw, I didn't see. 3 this woman that was inside of that classroom, she 4 showed me her heart. 5 saw her heart. 6 So the hatred that you all I didn't see because And that's what I saw, I It was very evident to me that she 7 looked exactly like the people outside that 8 seemed angry, but her heart showed me something 9 different. It made me realize that I cannot look 10 at someone and judge them, that I have to allow 11 myself the opportunity to get to know them. 12 that was what Dr. King was trying to convey to 13 all of us, not just us as African-Americans. 14 And So this particular piece I really 15 liked because it showed the unity. 16 particularly like, well, I mean here you can't 17 really tell who they are. 18 What I don't It's important for me, always, because 19 that's what shaped me into who I am, that it was 20 people from all walks of life that looked 21 different, who came together. 22 is wrong. 23 it is true with every 6 year old, it has nothing 24 to do with what you look like. 25 Who decided, this But for me in my eyes, and I believe You know, what we are faced with today www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 286 1 and was faced with then is good and evil. 2 people chose sides. 3 because that is the only thing that is going to 4 move this country forward. 5 And We have to show that unity So in selecting these coins that's 6 what I'm looking for and looking at. 7 are very, very impressive. 8 they did an extremely good job at conveying that. 9 So I would have to say that you all have your 10 All of them I do believe that hands full trying to decide. 11 I also have 4 here. 12 speak to 4. 13 not, this is 04. 14 one. 15 Which one that is. And I want to Number 4. It's I'm looking for the one, this This one did not resonate with me 16 right away. 17 different now because the face has changed a 18 little bit. 19 want to speak to that. 20 I saw it. It's a little bit Definitely the name is there, and I This was not my first choice. I saw 21 the name and I thought, no, I wouldn't want to 22 just choose this because the name is there. 23 I do understand that it's the first time that a 24 person's name would be on a coin. 25 coin with my name on it, it would be for my And If I chose a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 287 1 father. 2 My father fought in the Korean War. 3 And part of my story is that the NAACP asked my 4 parents to allow my mother to escort me to school 5 every day because my father had just gotten back 6 from the war. 7 would be hard for a man, especially a soldier, to 8 restrain himself if someone was trying to attack 9 their child. And that they thought that it 10 I always like to point out, you know, 11 they were mistaken because it should have been my 12 mother that stayed home -- 13 (Laughter.) 14 MS. BRIDGES: 15 father. 16 this. 17 -- rather than my But my father did not want me to endure My father said that even on the battle 18 field you could be in a foxhole with a soldier, a 19 White soldier. 20 together that you were brothers. 21 other's back. 22 couldn't go back to the same barracks and you 23 couldn't sleep, you couldn't go back to the same 24 barracks and you couldn't eat in the same mess 25 hall. When you were in that hole You had each But at the end of the day you www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 288 1 That he knew then that he was still 2 just a colored soldier. 3 could not find work. 4 this. 5 anything. And after returning home So why subject his child to That it was never going to change 6 That was the way that he felt. But my father was awarded a Purple 7 Heart. He was, I was a daddy's girl and he was 8 my hero. 9 Purple Heart. He really was a hero. He was awarded a He was hit by a hand grenade and 10 lost half of his calf. His fellow soldier next 11 to him lost both legs. He picked him up and 12 carried him back to safety, and was awarded his 13 Purple Heart. 14 But he still felt like I was still 15 just a colored soldier. 16 went through didn't change anything. 17 And going through what I And my father died from a massive 18 heart attack at 46 years old. 19 lived to see this change. 20 change. 21 So he never really Or to see me make You know, after 1st grade I went 22 running right back to that same classroom 23 thinking that my best friend, my teacher, was 24 going to be there and she was gone. 25 And again, no one really wants to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 289 1 discuss this, you know to understand that we did 2 not have Black History month until the '70s. 3 I had all sorts of questions, why me? 4 alone? So Why was I How was I chosen? 5 It caused so much tension in my own 6 household that no one wanted to discuss it. 7 for me I never learned my history. 8 got my questions answered for a very, very long 9 time. And I never Until I first saw the Normal Rockwell 10 painting. 11 about 16, 17 years old. 12 So And that did not happen until I was So not knowing my own history, not 13 knowing who I was, I really felt like it was an 14 incident that happened on my street, just in my 15 neighborhood. 16 it was a part of a much bigger movement until I 17 saw the Norman Rockwell. 18 that it was part of something much bigger than 19 myself. 20 find that family. 21 Not really ever being aware that And then I realized And that I needed to learn more and to I did not have my questions answered 22 and found that family until I entered, or was 23 taken to a civil rights museum where I had an 24 opportunity to see every face. 25 crossed that bridge, people that died. Every face that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 290 1 People that was on those buses that 2 were burned. 3 and White. 4 Schwerner who were two White and one Black man 5 that were murdered together and thrown into a 6 hole and buried together. 7 And I saw that they were both Black The story of Goodman and Chaney and There is so much about history that's 8 suppressed that we don't realize that we're not 9 showing and uplifting the good that all of us did 10 together. 11 the way that history actually happened. 12 Because it's still not being taught So there are so many people. So I am 13 overwhelmed that I would represent a coin that 14 represents all of those people in the Civil 15 Rights Movement. 16 So when I am looking at all of this I 17 am humbled by it. 18 people did come together. 19 about just White against Black, what it really 20 was about was right and wrong, good and evil, and 21 people stood up and chose sides. 22 And I do want it to show that That it wasn't all So when I think about my father, the 23 only reason that I would choose a coin that had 24 my name is because think about how many men, how 25 many people of color that shed blood died for www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 291 1 this country and was never recognized in any way. 2 That would be the only reason that I would choose 3 a coin that bared my father's name. 4 But again, this is not my leading 5 choice. I just think that it's worth noting that 6 if you decided to put a person's name on a coin 7 that it would have to be for a very good reason. 8 And for me it would not be just because of me. 9 It would send a message that this was a person 10 that represents so many people who died and shed 11 blood for this country and that was not 12 recognized after they returned home from war. 13 So I think I've taken up enough of 14 your time. 15 with me the most. 16 together represents, for me, moving forward. 17 people across the bridge. 18 bunch of them that really resonated. 19 Those are the coins that resonated The arms linked, the hands The Because there's a If I had my first choice, I do believe 20 it would be 01. Or 1A I think. 21 letting me talk, thank you. I appreciate you 22 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Ms. Bridges, I 23 cannot thank you enough for all of that. 24 you have said to us I feel is tremendously 25 important. What It is a history lesson that I have www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 292 1 never heard of that period before. 2 for the rest of the Committee as well. 3 And I'm sure I am almost speechless and almost 4 brought to tears frankly. I really do appreciate 5 that. 6 business to conduct because I would, in many ways 7 just like to leave it at that, but unfortunately 8 we have to go on. And it's rather sad that we have more 9 (Laughter.) 10 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: So it almost seems 11 pointless at this point in fact to ask if there 12 are any additional questions or comments from the 13 Committee? 14 the call today. Or from our additional advisors on 15 Ms. Elliott, if you would please. 16 MS. ELLIOTT: Yes, thank you so much. 17 And thank you, Ms. Bridges, that was beautiful. 18 And very heartfelt and thoughtful and thought 19 provoking. 20 And some of the things I am going to 21 say might echo some of what you just said. 22 wanted to speak to some of the coins that people 23 have selected, and some preferences that I think 24 should be considered. 25 I For coin, for the obverse, Coin Number www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 293 1 1. One of the things that stands out to me is, 2 it has exactly what everyone is saying. 3 a, it fills the, you know, what folks have been 4 saying about that sense of hope and this idea of, 5 you know, a young person and feeling hopeful and 6 having that ability to pursue an education and 7 that freedom. 8 9 It has But at the same time, what comes to mind for me is that it looks very pristine and 10 serene. And it is not an exact image of the 11 historic moment. 12 a young girl just going to, simply going to class 13 when in fact it doesn't show the reality of the 14 time of the need for an escort to avoid the 15 violence of the loud hateful adults and the loud 16 silence of the absence of the White children 17 meant to be Ms. Bridges's classmates at the time. 18 In that sense it can look like And so in that sense I think of Coin 19 Number 1B. 20 busy. 21 some adjustment to the design. 22 marshal's arm down, the door out of the way. 23 And I agree with everyone that it is I only wish that there could have been Perhaps the But clearly, and Ms. Bridges said it 24 so eloquently, about the presence of that, even 25 that arm badge, Deputy U.S. Marshal, indicating www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 294 1 the full force of the government enforcing, you 2 know, as she said, the Brown v. Board of 3 Education had already taken place, you know, 4 prior. 5 ongoing discrimination. And so here she was fighting to overcome 6 And I think that's extremely important 7 that there is an understanding that the innocence 8 of a child still walking into that building every 9 day for a year. The only student in that 10 classroom being taught by a White educator who 11 came down to teach this young Black woman, in 12 spite of the face of hatred, and a nation that 13 was, as Frederick Douglass was pushing for, to 14 live up to its ideals. 15 equality. Freedom, justice, 16 And so I think it's imperative that 17 the coin, without having to do extra work, just 18 on its face shows what she was fighting to 19 overcome. 20 little kid looking at that, you know, one of the 21 things I think is really important is, a child 22 can look at this in that it really resonates, 23 this isn't a old man on a coin, this isn't an 24 adult on a coin, this is a kid. 25 that looks like me. And I think that's powerful because a What is that, What are they doing, what's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 295 1 she doing. 2 And I think that's really powerful. Now if you went with design Number 1 3 I do think it's important to have the name Ruby 4 Bridges. 5 and I understand, Ms. Bridges, the children, that 6 those are, that's your audience, but do I think 7 it's imperative that, you know, that it is 8 important. 9 father's name is important. We're all of a generation who we know, Your name is important. Your You're Ruby Bridges. 10 It's important. And I think if you went with 11 design Number 1 it would be imperative to have 12 your name on there. 13 The other thing I would say is, for 14 the reverse, design number, I think it's design 15 number, let me pull it up real quick. 16 Number 4 I believe it is. 17 who's been talking about the, you know, for a 18 lack of a better word, I'll think of the 19 multitudes of people marching. 20 Design To everyone's point And this collective effort to gain 21 civil rights for all, I think that's very, very 22 important. 23 collective of people. 24 of people is imperative. 25 design does that better than any. And to see it, to actually see that And to see the diversity And I think that this www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 296 1 And the other part of that is, is that 2 these designs, abolitionism, civil rights, I 3 would hope that someone who holds these coins 4 does not think of these designs as, these are 5 coins that speak to Black people. 6 segregated history, this is all of our stories. 7 It's everybody. 8 9 Abolitionists. people. This isn't It was a collective of Civil rights was a collective of people. 10 Abolition, the work of abolitionists, again, it 11 freed Black people but it brought the nation out 12 of the bondage of slavery. 13 to gain civil rights and helped us to try and 14 fulfill democracy, right? 15 justice. 16 Civil rights helped Freedom, equality, And then you even see, after Martin 17 Luther King passes, after the Civil Rights Act is 18 passed, the Fair Housing, all of that, the idea 19 of people continuing on with the poor people's 20 campaign. 21 push for rights and justice and equality. And this idea of collective power to 22 So I think that that's very, very 23 important to see the gathering across section of 24 people across, it's intergenerational, it's 25 interracial. It also crosses economic class. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 297 1 And also region. 2 While you can't see all of that in 3 these images, I do think that it gives that sense 4 of that of mix of people who were involved in 5 this movement. 6 about those images. 7 And so that's what I would say I think just reflecting on 1, and 8 reflecting on 1B for the obverse, and then 9 reflecting on 4 for the reverse, those would be 10 the ones that I, that resonate the most to me. 11 And I do think that the marching images are 12 great, but unless you show the, really show the 13 images of all the people where they are clearly 14 defined, it doesn't have as much of an impact. 15 Thank you. 16 17 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you as well. These are, again, very useful observations. 18 MS. STAFFORD: Yes. Sorry, I just wanted to 19 add. Both Ms. Bridges and Ms. Elliott identified 20 it in what they just shared with us. 21 and 2, we were managing a lot of inputs as they 22 portfolios were being developed. 23 very aware, Ms. Elliott did speak to us at length 24 about the need to be broadly representative of 25 those involved in the Civil Rights Movement and Reverses 1 And so we are www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 298 1 have diversity across ages, races, et cetera, 2 depicted on these coins. 3 We unfortunately weren't able 4 necessarily to effective these particular coins, 5 Reverses 1 and 2, but that does not mean that 6 that could not happen, and it should. 7 wanted to make sure that we acknowledge that 8 because it was very much a key component in what 9 was driving kind of the messaging behind the I just 10 reverses for this coin. 11 time and some other things weren't necessarily 12 able to illustrate it so clearly with these, but 13 it could be done. 14 And we just, because of CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 15 thank you very much for that. 16 score? I think so. 17 All right. April, Are we ready to Why don't we score then. So the Committee will now score the 18 obverse and reverse design candidates for the 19 2026 quarter commemorating civil rights. 20 hand your score sheets to Greg Weinman. 21 take a ten minute break and be back at 5 o'clock. 22 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter Please We will 23 went off the record at 4:47 p.m. and resumed at 24 4:54 p.m.) 25 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: We are back. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And I Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 299 1 recognize Greg Weinman, Counsel to the CCAC, to 2 present the results from the scoring sheet. 3 Greg, if you would please. 4 MR. WEINMAN: So, I'm pleased to report 5 that I think we'll have some clarity on this 6 scoring. 7 received 27 out of a possible 30 points making it 8 the high scoring design. 9 Starting with the obverse is Obverse 01 01A received eight points. 10 received 13 points. 11 received three points. 12 points. 13 01B 02 received 12 points. And 04 received five Moving on to the reverses. Reverse 01 14 received 14 points. 15 points, making it the high scoring reverse 16 design. 17 3 received 12 points. 18 points. 19 Reverse 6 received one. 20 one. 21 22 23 24 25 03 Reverse 02 received 22 Reverse 2A received 12 points. Reverse Reverse 4 received 14 Reverse 5 received ten points. And And Reverse 7 received Once again, the high scoring designs are Obverse 01 and Reverse 02. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, Greg, thank you very much. MEMBER MORAN: Piece of cake. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 300 1 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: As most of you know 2 we will be reviewing all of this and making our 3 recommendations tomorrow, but if there are any 4 final comments at this point we can entertain 5 those comments, otherwise we can move towards 6 adjournment after this very, very long day. 7 MEMBER SCARINCI: Motion to Recess. 8 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, I'll call 9 10 that motion in just a moment, but first I, again, would very much -- Oh, Kellen, yes. 11 MEMBER HOARD: Well my final comment 12 is just, how do we get Ruby to come to all of our 13 meetings? 14 (Laughter.) 15 MEMBER HOARD: 16 MS. BRIDGES: Speaking to us. I would not want that 17 task that you guys have right now. 18 is weighing pretty heavy on your shoulders. 19 again, just want to thank you for having me, 20 thank you for considering me. 21 with you -- 22 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 23 MS. BRIDGES: 24 25 I am sure it I, And may God be Again. -- in your decision making. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Yes. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Again, thank Meeting October 15, 2024 Page 301 1 you so much for being with us today. 2 want to echo what Annelisa Purdie said earlier 3 that the world is a much better place with you in 4 it. 5 And I do I also want to thank Lance Volland and 6 Mary Elliott for joining us today in the review 7 of this portfolio. 8 like to ask if we have a Motion to Recess? And at this point I would 9 MEMBER SCARINCI: Motion to Recess. 10 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you. 11 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: 12 I second that motion. 13 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 14 second. 15 saying aye? And we have a And so, all in favor please signify by 16 (Chorus of aye.) 17 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Any opposed? All 18 right, the motion carries. 19 4:58, and we are in recess until 8:30 a.m. 20 tomorrow morning, at which, again, is half an 21 hour later than the time originally announced. 22 So thank you again. 23 tomorrow. 24 25 The time is 5, or And we shall see you (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter went off the record at 4:57 p.m.) www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Page 302 C E R T I F I C A T E This is to certify that the foregoing transcript In the matter of: Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Date: 10-15-24 Place: Washington, DC was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under my direction; further, that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings. ----------------------Court Reporter NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14TH ST. NW, STE. 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com Meeting [& - 1] October 15, 2024 Page 1 & & 4:3 0 0-01 109:14 0-01a 109:8 0-4 109:18 0/01 64:3 0/06a 64:4 0002 2:12 0004 5:7 006a 72:23 73:5 01 39:18 41:11 52:10,11 114:2 115:25 116:2,4 116:16,20 129:13,13,15 129:19,19,20 129:20,21,21 129:22,23,24 129:25,25 130:14,25 131:18,23 135:10 138:6 140:14,23 141:9,18,18 203:4 228:23 229:18 231:6 258:5 266:1 269:7 271:8,11 280:21 291:20 299:6,13,22 01a 36:7 40:14 41:16 52:12 115:25 116:21 121:9 129:15 129:22 130:15 131:18,24 135:23 141:18 141:24 147:19 241:9 258:5 265:8 269:2 299:9 01b 229:6 241:10 257:25 258:6 266:22 299:9 02 41:11 68:6 72:7 111:15 115:23,23 120:13 129:21 129:21,22,23 130:16,23 131:1,19,25 135:4 139:12 144:6,6 202:25 203:6 217:15 223:5,7,10 225:22 239:15 241:10 264:1,5 264:10 265:8 266:1,2,8,19 282:8 299:10 299:14,22 02a 177:13 202:25 203:6 266:1,2,8 03 72:4 111:16 112:6 115:19 116:4,8,8,19 116:20 129:24 129:24,25,25 130:18 131:2 131:21 132:1 133:23 135:5 139:11,15 170:2 203:1,7 258:19,23 266:5 270:22 273:9 299:10 03a 131:3 203:7 04 68:9 110:10 111:18 115:20 115:21,22 116:4,18 130:19 131:3 131:21 132:1 203:1,8 225:24 228:9 270:23 277:17,17 286:13 299:11 04a 131:4 203:2 05 130:19 131:5 132:2 203:3,8 224:25 225:22 229:11 230:3 05a 130:20 06 72:24 73:2 112:20 130:21 131:5 132:3 203:3,8 273:6 06a 72:25 73:1 130:21 131:6 07 112:20 121:10 131:7 132:3 203:9 273:7 08 112:23 115:21 116:15 116:16,18,19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 131:8 132:6 08a 131:8 09 112:24 131:9 132:6 1 1 1:1 2:13 4:1 4:17 5:8 25:25 26:10 28:8 38:16 40:14 58:24 59:8 60:5 69:15 85:2 91:5,13 91:14 99:16 100:7,11 105:10,14 111:9 114:7,9 117:23 123:11 125:1,3 158:17 160:15,15 167:24,24 168:1,6 169:14 169:14,19,19 172:6 173:8 174:6,18,19 175:11,25 176:12 178:3 178:23 179:3 179:11,23 185:9,24 189:12 190:15 191:1,4,6,15 191:16,18 193:6 194:13 194:17,18 197:9 202:23 209:16,20 210:5 219:1,9 Meeting [1 - 1960] 219:14,22 226:9 227:2,17 229:4 230:13 230:14,25 231:8 232:4,4 232:8,18 234:3 234:8,17 235:25 236:8 236:13,15 237:10 241:8,8 241:15,19 242:9 248:13 250:7 261:20 264:3,20,22 267:10 268:1 268:22 269:7 269:17 272:8 273:10 274:5 274:25 275:11 275:11 276:7,7 276:19 277:4,8 278:11 279:23 293:1 295:2,11 297:7,20 298:5 10 1:13 3:3 4:4 4:14 5:12 62:23 69:9,9 75:15 94:24 102:24 113:5 131:10 132:7 202:8 10,000 210:16 10-15-24 302:6 100 22:23 23:13 66:8 229:10 10:03 55:21 October 15, 2024 Page 2 10:11 55:22 11 1:15 3:4 4:7 4:8,16 5:13 63:4 103:5 113:14 119:1 131:11 132:8 203:3,9 116-330 19:24 11:01 96:13 11:08 96:14 11:50 128:10 12 1:16 3:5 4:18 5:13 63:10 103:9 113:16 121:10 124:19 131:12 132:8,8 203:3 203:10 299:10 299:16,17 12:45 128:5,7 128:11 12a 63:10 67:19,19 69:1 89:11 110:14 131:13 13 1:17 3:7 4:19 5:14 61:18 63:1 202:25 203:7,9 299:10 13th 156:15 157:11 182:21 184:10,21 194:10 14 1:19 3:9 4:21 5:14 131:5,25 245:3 299:14,17 14th 194:10 244:2 246:6 15 1:8,21 3:11 4:23 5:10,15 130:19 131:8 242:13 151 5:1 153 5:3 15th 194:10 244:3 16 1:23 3:13 4:25 5:16 129:15 289:11 160 198:18 17 1:25 3:15 5:1,17 131:3 225:20 289:11 1770s 88:19 1776 26:11 56:24 58:12 60:19 62:14 66:5 77:7 93:2 95:11 99:4 110:4 125:19 127:11 158:3 209:10 247:17 1780s 75:18 1782 125:20 1787 44:11 79:8 97:1 102:15 103:7 1788 97:2 1789 97:3 127:12 1792 18:14 18 2:1 3:17 5:2 5:18 131:8 132:4,5,7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 225:20 241:8 241:18 1800s 145:22 1818 156:19 1824 181:23 1830s 162:8 1833 155:25 1838 156:20 1841 156:21 1845 157:2 1848 184:13 200:20 207:5 185 5:4 1852 157:8 1856 181:24 1863 182:3 1865 156:16 178:11 182:22 182:24 198:9 1866 182:6 1895 182:25 1896 244:10 18th 57:17 97:15 19 2:3 3:19 5:3 5:19 129:20 131:9 1916 233:12 1917 208:1 1920 206:24 208:17 220:9 224:18 1954 244:24 253:15 1957 245:11 1960 246:6 247:6 Meeting [1963 - 2028] 1963 245:17 1964 245:22 278:19 1965 208:25 236:9 245:23 251:7 1968 236:9 245:24 1976 67:7 93:25 1986 22:15 1997 22:22 19th 94:22 125:8 183:21 197:19 1:15 128:5 1a 25:25 26:12 28:8,20 37:17 58:24 59:8 78:6 85:2 99:16 100:7,12 105:10,10,14 111:9,10 113:20 117:11 125:1 149:1 209:16,25 219:5 221:25 225:14 226:9 230:13 237:9 242:7 248:13 248:25 264:1,1 264:5,10 268:22 276:19 291:20 1b 209:17 210:3 221:24 222:19 225:7 226:9,12,18 October 15, 2024 Page 3 230:13 232:8 236:13 237:9 242:7,9 248:13 249:2 261:7 267:10,22 268:22,23 276:19,19 282:7,8,8 293:19 297:8 1st 288:21 2 2 1:2 2:14 4:2 4:21 5:8 41:16 56:24 59:10 60:13 66:12,14 69:25 71:21 74:11 75:19 86:3 90:25 92:22,23 94:18 96:19 99:19 100:14 105:17 108:13 111:18 114:8,18,18,23 117:17 119:22 121:13 122:9 125:23 126:22 126:22 158:17 161:1 167:24 168:11 173:6 176:13,21 177:7,12 193:8 193:9,15 194:13,21 195:12 198:15 199:19 200:11 209:17 210:4 210:17 220:17 222:16 227:7 229:4,5 230:13 231:15 241:17 249:6 250:7 261:15,15 264:20,22 265:11 268:1 268:20 269:17 270:15 272:8 273:10 275:12 276:7,19 278:17 279:22 279:25 297:21 298:5 20 2:5 3:20 5:4 5:20 130:1 131:10 200:3,4 241:10,13 2016 14:13 16:11,12 18:6 240:15 2017 52:19 176:4 263:1 270:1 2018 23:10 2020 16:18 210:15 2021 23:8 2022 153:2 2024 1:8 4:6 5:10 7:15 11:25 14:14 15:5 24:25 2025 23:9 2026 4:16,20 5:1,5 7:18,19 7:20,21,22,23 8:1,2,5 10:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 10:13,19,24 11:10 19:18 22:9 23:19,22 24:21 25:2 26:11 32:18 50:24 55:9 56:7,12 58:12 63:22 66:4,23 67:22 74:18 77:8 95:11 96:3,19 99:4 108:24 109:18 110:5 127:24 128:22,23 132:16 133:1,6 134:14 141:7 141:24 143:15 143:18 145:22 152:5 158:4 165:22 202:4 205:25 209:10 217:10 243:22 247:17 257:4 260:16 262:12 298:19 2026-2028 4:12 2027 51:6 134:22 136:5 140:17 141:9 141:25 2028 7:19 22:10 23:20 32:18 51:6 52:15 53:10 55:9 128:23 132:17 134:22 136:5 141:9,25 Meeting [20th - 5] 20th 80:7 21 2:7 3:22 4:11 5:4,21 203:5 241:16 22 2:9 3:23 5:5 5:22 129:15,20 129:24,25 130:16,24 197:20 299:14 23 2:10 3:24 4:15 5:6,23 131:19 242:13 230 19:23 24 2:11 3:25 4:6 5:7,24 11:25 24th 7:15 25 5:25 58:18 254:16 281:12 250 21:4 24:14 28:4 56:17 58:2 63:11 67:20 69:8 77:6,9 80:1 88:21 98:20 106:3 110:15 145:14 250th 89:13 155:6 26 4:19 40:16 202:23 206:24 27 40:16 134:9 299:7 27,000,000 207:2 28 40:16 134:10 October 15, 2024 Page 4 2:15 202:11 2:25 202:9,12 2a 158:17 161:1 168:11 173:6 174:22 174:24 175:1 175:11 177:7,8 194:21 195:12 250:7 264:22 265:11 275:12 276:7 299:16 3 3 1:3 2:16 4:3 5:2,9 39:18 59:15 60:16,22 66:20 67:2,3 86:23 90:19,23 93:16 99:25 100:19 105:19 105:19 106:12 107:24 108:1,4 108:10,15 122:16 123:16 152:6 159:2 161:9,15 167:20,20 171:13 175:6 175:22 176:24 177:7 187:19 195:16 204:2 211:1 223:13 229:4 231:20 241:17 249:15 250:21 264:21 264:23 269:18 299:17 30 129:14,15 130:15,24 139:7 200:19 202:24 203:5 241:9 299:7 31 4:24 32 207:5 3:16 240:23 3:30 240:19,24 3a 60:17,24 67:3 89:3 110:13 161:9 174:25 175:6 176:24 195:16 3rd 270:22 4 4 1:4 2:18 4:3,4 5:9 59:19 61:1 61:2 66:22 87:11 90:10,20 94:3 100:3,23 109:18 110:19 120:2 122:24 159:13,20,20 161:21 166:3 168:14 170:8 171:13 174:12 174:18 176:19 176:24 185:17 185:18 187:6 187:17 190:3 206:1 211:6 221:7 223:18 223:21 227:11 228:19 230:3 231:24 232:24 234:15 235:6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 236:22 237:22 241:18 249:22 251:5 259:8,24 263:10,11 270:8,16 272:9 272:18,21 273:1,11 286:11,12,12 295:16 297:9 299:17 46 288:18 47 198:10 4:00 273:18 4:47 298:23 4:54 298:24 4:57 301:25 4:58 301:19 4a 61:1 67:10 67:10 94:9 159:13 166:4 170:7,12 176:19 187:16 4th 157:8 5 5 1:5 2:20 4:6 5:5,10 59:23 61:4 81:20,22 81:24 83:2 87:23 88:4 90:10 91:21 93:11 94:10 101:1 124:4,4 159:24 162:5 167:13,24 175:25 176:8 176:12 185:10 185:23,23 Meeting [5 - abolitionism] 188:2 190:11 191:1,4 194:15 204:2 211:10 223:21 230:23 237:16,22 239:15 241:19 251:5 260:21 269:25 270:7 270:22 272:9,9 272:14,18 273:2,11 283:6 298:21 299:18 301:18 50 66:8 52 79:2 54 251:8 5a 59:23 87:23 6 6 1:6 2:22 4:7 5:10 59:23 61:15 70:24 87:23 90:8 93:11 101:15 154:7 160:6 162:16 167:25 168:2,16 169:25 177:15 178:19 191:3,4 191:6,16 199:7 199:19,25 200:5,11 201:2 201:2,2 208:1 211:20 241:20 246:6 247:12 248:14 249:7 249:22 251:23 255:8 270:12 October 15, 2024 Page 5 283:20 285:23 299:19 60 79:3 60s 275:15 66 178:11 68 207:5 6:00 5:12 6a 59:23 61:15 61:24 87:23 7 7 1:7 2:24 4:8 5:11 62:4 101:24 110:1 114:25 124:13 126:17 162:22 169:25,25 171:15,16 173:9 176:25 180:5,6,9 186:1,1 188:10 190:15 195:18 195:20 252:10 270:12 299:19 70 253:16 255:15 70s 289:2 70th 256:6 72 207:17 7a 162:22 168:17,18,22 169:1,5,9 171:15,18 173:10 180:5,8 180:9 186:17 203:9 7b 162:22 180:5 186:13 203:9 8 8 1:9 3:1 4:10 5:11 62:11 88:24 92:2,9 102:5 170:1 801 1:13 8:30 5:13 7:25 301:19 8a 62:11 88:11 88:24 92:2,9 9 9 1:11 3:2 4:12 5:12 62:19 74:20 75:20 94:15 102:12 115:5 118:25 120:25 126:6 126:23 900 207:16 99.95 22:25 9995 23:14 9:00 1:14 5:8 9:01 5:10 9th 1:13 a a.m. 1:14 5:8 5:10,13 7:25 55:21,22 96:13 96:14 128:10 301:19 ability 50:16 150:18 263:17 293:6 able 13:14 19:1 32:25 72:14 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 102:20 115:1 118:13 135:3 150:11 193:12 216:12 218:22 272:23 273:2 298:3,12 ably 232:13 abolish 156:14 192:10,13 abolished 178:12,13 180:21 182:22 201:21 abolition 157:21 158:6 160:2,17 161:5 162:23 180:18 180:22,25 181:7 183:20 183:22,23 184:20 187:14 192:4,11,12,12 192:18,19,20 192:22 199:22 201:19,22 202:23 296:10 abolitionism 5:2 7:22 10:20 56:21 152:6,19 153:18 155:8 155:10,11,18 158:9,23 160:18 161:21 162:3,18 165:22 175:5 176:10,18 180:17,20,25 181:2,6 192:3 Meeting [abolitionism - add] 192:10,14,15 192:18,21,23 194:24 199:22 202:5,22 296:2 abolitionist 153:20 156:12 159:3 161:14 184:3 197:18 abolitionists 156:7 159:22 160:19 162:8 171:2 296:8,10 above 29:19 55:20 62:22 77:3 91:3 96:12 128:9 176:21 191:21 202:10 240:22 268:3 298:22 301:24 abraham 45:3 abroad 82:12 184:9 216:23 244:18 absence 172:11 293:16 absolute 213:3 264:24 absolutely 52:13 167:2 172:4 182:13 182:16 202:18 206:18 226:7 240:4 248:9,11 253:1,9 271:15 274:5 276:23 279:22 October 15, 2024 Page 6 abuse 258:11 academic 238:6 accent 28:13 accentuate 236:13 accept 135:1,1 acceptance 82:22 accepted 84:17 141:19 access 220:13 261:11 accidentally 227:3 accommodate 204:11 accommodati... 139:19 accomplish 282:2,3 accountable 158:24 accuracy 220:21 accurate 186:3 261:8 302:10 accurately 302:8 achieve 208:9 244:22 achievement 21:10 208:15 achieving 207:20 208:12 acknowledge 298:7 acknowledges 160:10 acknowledging 252:13 acknowledg... 160:20 acorn 60:6,13 73:7 act 17:10,19 19:25 57:11 66:25 97:22 110:8 192:10 208:25 245:23 245:23,24 296:17 action 28:25 62:3 71:18,19 153:16 160:12 161:2 176:20 176:20 183:19 201:19 210:23 211:3 213:12 223:7 250:17 251:15,19 302:12,17 actions 245:9 246:25 249:13 active 201:15 actively 99:18 155:14 activism 226:21 activist 184:4 activists 207:12 252:14 activity 268:1 acts 20:24 207:21 245:20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 246:1 248:23 actual 88:1 123:4 124:1 actually 19:7 35:25 48:11,13 48:16,19,22,25 49:2 65:21,23 68:23 72:12 74:15,24 79:2 82:1,12 84:16 84:22 85:8 86:1 88:8,24 109:12 116:12 120:19,20 130:17 137:6 145:13,16,25 146:23 149:1,4 149:18 181:25 183:14 184:18 185:18 186:2,2 188:14 199:12 204:16,18 224:23 225:15 234:1 253:7,15 253:22 255:8 260:21 268:2 271:21 281:19 282:17 283:9 284:13 290:11 295:22 adaptation 135:6 add 37:1 38:6 47:1 91:12 121:24 149:24 223:2 230:11 231:5 238:14 297:19 Meeting [addition - alfen] addition 13:21 32:1 51:23 87:7 137:1 197:23 additional 26:9 27:3,18 28:25 29:13,24 30:20 31:5,15 50:4 60:22 100:18 100:22 102:10 103:3,7 144:9 201:7 292:12 292:13 address 84:19 147:18 165:18 181:5 191:23 192:2 201:25 212:5 216:3 238:22 244:1 253:3 254:10 255:22 265:14 265:18 addressed 11:20 addresses 157:7 adjacent 276:3 adjournment 300:6 adjust 231:3 adjusted 70:11 124:11,12 adjusting 89:8 adjustment 293:21 administer 98:7 October 15, 2024 Page 7 administration 3:7 10:16 administrative 267:15 admit 124:24 190:22 adopt 66:3 133:25 149:21 adopted 91:19 162:7 adopting 133:16 134:20 adorned 99:17 adult 294:24 adulthood 183:15 adults 283:25 293:15 advance 138:5 247:9 advantage 91:6 172:19 advent 70:17 advice 17:11 122:25 advising 15:14 advisors 64:17 104:3 153:3,6 292:13 advisory 1:3,12 5:10 11:6 12:17 15:9,10 16:2 24:23 302:3 advocacy 157:14 246:1 advocate 75:9 200:18 advocates 209:22 247:14 aesthetic 110:16 aesthetically 120:21 121:16 affairs 2:24 3:1 3:2,12 9:22 10:3,4 11:1 206:8 affirmation 16:20 aforemention... 8:5 african 3:10,16 10:23 11:8,13 155:16 164:18 169:7 195:3,8 196:6 216:9,10 244:1,8,19 248:4 283:23 285:13 afternoon 32:14 52:1,4 125:21 128:15 143:24 165:12 165:15 205:16 252:24 age 14:18 57:12 120:15 184:20 197:20 197:20,21 200:19 249:25 250:4,10 agency 63:14 agenda 4:2 7:13 128:6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 agent 156:23 ages 298:1 ago 21:20 110:10 254:16 agree 37:20 42:14 46:4 52:12 68:12 74:10 78:6 136:2 137:19 140:1,17 149:20 169:24 171:15 174:4 179:17 200:15 229:2 236:2 237:15,20 264:17 265:25 267:23 272:22 278:8 283:12 293:19 agreed 117:15 236:5 284:24 agreeing 117:10 agreement 213:16,18 ahead 127:25 128:4 130:12 135:14 albeit 268:13 270:9 alex 13:15 17:24 19:1 alexander 15:21 17:22 alfen 1:14,17 5:9 6:2,9,13,16 6:19,23 7:2,5,9 7:10 8:16,24 Meeting [alfen - america's] 9:2,5,8,11,14 9:17,20,24 10:2,6 12:6,10 12:13 18:22 19:14 31:22 33:5,19 34:4 35:19 37:3,24 38:21 40:18 42:13 45:17 47:22 49:11 50:21 51:8,21 52:6 53:25 54:6,23 55:3,6 55:23 63:18 64:22 67:24 68:16 71:10 74:6 75:22 77:20 80:12 89:23 92:13 95:21 96:15 104:14 108:17 110:24 111:5 113:23 115:11 117:4 119:2 120:8 121:25 124:23 127:18 128:12,19 130:4,12 131:14 132:10 132:15 133:24 134:3,18 135:20 136:8 136:15 137:14 138:2 139:21 140:11 141:1 141:12,21 142:8,22 143:4 143:10,14 October 15, 2024 Page 8 144:10 146:6 147:8,14 148:8 149:15 150:7 150:22 151:25 158:14 165:13 167:5 169:20 172:1 173:23 175:14 177:21 179:14 181:4 182:18 183:2,6 186:20 190:19 192:25 196:25 197:3 201:4,24 202:13,21 203:12,24 204:12 205:8 205:23 206:18 206:21 212:3,9 214:18 216:1 217:5 218:3 219:24 222:21 223:24 226:5 227:15 228:24 230:8 232:5 233:7 235:12 237:11,25 238:11,18,24 239:10,16 240:9,25 241:22 242:4 242:14,17,21 243:6,19 248:9 248:11 252:22 254:8 255:19 256:24 260:7 262:13 265:13 267:2 268:7 270:17 273:12 276:8 278:6 291:22 292:10 297:16 298:14 298:25 299:23 300:1,8,22,25 301:10,13,17 alice 207:15 218:17,19 227:21 aligning 251:21 aligns 108:1 allegorical 27:22 29:4 101:16 allegories 36:2 allegory 162:23 allenswood 3:14 11:5 206:10 allida 3:14 11:4 206:9 213:6 214:21 235:25 243:13 allow 55:16 249:19 285:10 287:4 allowed 45:3 73:5 106:2 allowing 165:4 254:2 255:17 allusion 233:17 aloft 211:23 alongside 22:18 156:24 274:10 alternative 185:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 amazing 80:23 119:8 253:10 255:14 amazingly 21:21 126:7 amazon 238:7 ambivalent 70:9 amend 97:8 amendable 107:1 amendment 23:7 48:22 141:17 156:15 157:12 178:11 182:21 184:10 184:21 194:10 206:23 208:4,6 208:14 209:13 211:13 229:13 232:1 amendments 194:10 244:3,9 america 15:1 23:13 30:17 58:18 62:8 81:4 88:15 99:12 105:25 152:23 154:11 154:23 155:12 155:17 157:23 158:7,8 160:11 162:24 176:3 209:14 236:23 247:22 249:13 282:4 america's 25:15 58:3 Meeting [america's - appointed] 61:5 79:7 83:7 101:2 116:23 162:9 248:20 251:1,16 american 1:22 3:11,16 6:7 10:23 11:8,13 14:19,21,24,25 17:8 22:14,16 22:21 25:20 26:22 28:19 31:3 62:20,25 63:15 82:14,25 84:18 85:14 88:13 97:13 102:2 103:10 108:11 109:1 109:23 124:9 144:19 154:5 156:1,22 160:9 161:16 162:20 164:18 177:16 183:25 185:12 197:19 208:12 208:15 209:17 211:1,5,18 213:2 216:6,9 216:11 226:14 226:20 243:8 244:19 247:8 248:4 250:22 251:12,24 252:6 259:3,6 260:15 262:21 270:3,10 272:25 274:22 276:15 283:23 american's 275:19 americans 28:3 29:16,23 40:6 56:13 58:15 59:3 81:10 82:4 85:7,10 86:17 87:6,16 87:19 88:1 106:4,16 107:8 110:6 153:15 155:6,16 156:13 157:24 169:7 184:9 195:3,8 196:6 208:18,24 209:7,23 214:16 242:23 244:2,8 250:4 250:7,17,23 252:4 259:6 262:2 285:13 americas 252:18 amiable 198:1 amount 84:6 126:12 219:3 amplify 30:3 ancient 80:16 angel 93:13 angela 3:16 11:7 216:1 243:13 angle 223:8 angry 285:8 ann 10:16 31:19 54:2 October 15, 2024 Page 9 anna 188:20 anne 207:14 annelisa 2:8 7:6 40:18,21 68:17,20 71:10 93:11 122:1,3 124:23 186:25 187:2 190:19 219:25 222:21 223:18 257:8 267:5 301:2 anniversary 89:14 127:11 142:13 155:6 announce 5:19 announced 5:14 301:21 announcement 62:15 annular 211:15 answer 235:21 answered 81:15 289:8,21 antebellum 156:6 anthony 207:12 215:11 227:23 anti 156:1,22 170:17 171:8 183:19,24 184:3 antiques 14:17 anxious 169:17 anybody 271:20 275:6 anyway 53:4 80:11,11 129:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 171:4 277:1 apart 73:17 189:8 apathetic 86:7 apathy 107:14 appeal 46:10 46:12 114:20 261:18 appealed 46:1 appealing 107:9 122:15 122:19 232:24 appear 32:8 33:7,8 91:13 91:25 92:11 121:13 127:13 185:2 204:7 225:11 appearance 46:9 appearances 46:13 appeared 38:13 121:14 184:12 199:15 210:12 appearing 92:10 appears 78:14 applause 16:4 18:21 application 124:2 apply 252:7 263:9 applying 17:12 appointed 14:12 16:19 Meeting [appreciate - asked] appreciate 66:20 86:13,14 89:21 90:1 92:6 186:21 205:22 218:24 243:7 254:1,2 254:12 256:23 257:20 261:7 269:5 273:17 273:22 291:20 292:4 appreciated 67:2,19 70:1 95:8,9 117:18 201:16 223:13 237:12 appreciation 24:13 approach 17:14 65:16 137:23 206:16 267:24 appropriate 85:24 114:4 145:4 183:11 204:18 233:2 233:18 242:22 243:9 275:13 approval 4:4 7:14 11:23 approve 12:3 approved 57:2 96:25 153:1 approximate 40:4 approximately 5:12 October 15, 2024 Page 10 april 2:15 8:21 14:14 15:5 20:18 22:10 33:5 50:22 51:9 52:9 56:8 56:10 63:19 96:20,22 104:14 138:4 152:6,8 170:4 206:1,2 239:3 243:23 298:14 aptly 114:6 ar 217:16,19 arc 114:11 arch 41:19 42:6 124:5 archangel 70:16 arched 239:7 arches 239:8 architectural 223:3 archive 24:2 207:19 archives 3:6,6 10:15,16 54:20 arduous 160:4 162:25 area 85:20 142:12 argument 205:9 230:23 263:7 arguments 197:23 arising 26:2 61:8 arm 28:16 61:20 175:8 195:25 250:8,8 258:14 278:2 293:22,25 armed 246:9 armor 78:15 arms 52:24 61:1,3 189:9 189:15 210:8 251:25 291:15 arose 270:1 arranged 114:15 array 145:24 arrows 62:21 75:4 art 24:24 37:25 38:22 43:9 52:22 90:3 107:25 108:2 108:14 117:5 119:2 136:8 145:24 165:23 165:25 167:6 181:4 183:3,13 201:8,24 211:11 217:12 222:22 223:24 226:2 231:10 231:13 232:23 236:16 238:3 238:14 239:8 265:1 267:3,5 268:7 278:19 artful 178:6 arthur 1:20 5:23,25 12:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 38:2 90:4 117:7 179:15 201:10 222:23 articulated 28:24 62:2 artist 25:5 66:16 138:11 138:20 166:12 182:9,12 264:24 277:18 artist's 78:17 110:13,22 artistic 81:17 83:20 85:23 86:19 93:14 121:18 268:17 270:13 artistically 66:24 artists 24:20 25:1 42:16 58:19 99:13 103:13,21 204:4 arts 1:24 6:11 14:24 ascend 28:12 61:19 162:24 ascending 39:4 45:22 ascent 163:2 ascribed 98:14 asian 256:13 aside 64:11 132:18 asked 15:24 58:19 99:13 103:21 133:4,5 Meeting [asked - balanced] 262:16 287:3 asking 50:23 81:9 106:18 180:15 aspect 80:18 92:25 280:4,6 aspects 280:8 aspen 112:10 aspiration 185:2 aspirational 196:8,10 aspirations 58:4 83:9 98:21 aspire 83:11 196:11,11 assembly 29:18 assert 63:8 asserted 56:18 59:3 asserting 161:11 asserts 31:8 associate 11:3 136:10 247:25 associated 171:7 278:13 associates 83:17 association 14:20 assuming 98:12 171:5 ate 246:20 athena 122:12 attack 287:8 288:18 October 15, 2024 Page 11 attempt 43:18 attend 246:14 attendance 8:20 attended 245:17 attention 17:17 39:22 60:4 67:16 81:24,25 171:23 186:15 221:23 222:11 261:19 283:10 283:14 attractive 93:19 94:12 126:18 auctioned 79:6 audience 187:6 295:6 audiences 157:4 159:21 audio 68:10 212:14 august 206:24 author 14:21 authority 98:12,18 105:23 240:8 autobiography 157:1 autonomy 69:16 ava 13:16 18:4 18:6 19:1 average 213:19 avoid 86:23 106:21 168:25 168:25 293:14 avoiding 168:23 award 4:8 7:16 12:18,22 13:10 15:9,11,19 16:3 18:19 116:12 awarded 288:6 288:8,12 awardee 3:4 aware 8:9 33:16 284:10 289:15 297:23 awed 21:5 aye 12:11,12 143:8,9 301:15 301:16 b b 41:11 129:20 129:23,25 207:12,13 215:11 227:22 baby 246:20 258:10 back 18:13 35:6 50:16 53:24 70:11 72:15 77:9 78:18 84:24 85:11 96:15 102:16 114:9 115:6 117:12 122:13 128:13 145:23 151:9 151:19 161:19 170:22 175:1 176:9 182:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 182:14 189:13 199:15 200:11 202:14 221:8 227:20 229:8 241:1,7 260:5 269:10 270:3 272:15 279:1 284:22 287:5 287:21,22,23 288:12,22 298:21,25 background 56:23 96:24 155:9 156:17 174:13 187:7 187:17 198:23 199:2 206:22 222:7 232:17 244:1 246:5 248:25 252:8 259:3 264:6 271:10 273:1 274:19 backgrounds 82:15 198:19 198:21 bad 79:9 151:23 173:15 badge 229:24 237:3 293:25 badly 271:23 baijal 2:20 9:11,13 22:11 baker 256:10 balance 98:17 252:14 balanced 20:8 107:10 275:12 Meeting [balances - bicentennial] balances 98:11 ballot 210:22 211:2,11,16 219:16 ballots 219:18 bank 224:20 banner 209:19 211:20 213:23 225:10 268:2 bared 291:3 barely 112:7 barracks 287:22,24 barriers 209:2 base 38:9 281:14 based 24:16 25:1,6 58:16 59:6 64:9,11 69:11,12 83:20 97:15 137:8 170:17 171:1 240:7 267:18 268:25 basically 81:8 82:16 109:25 battle 161:22 211:17 213:17 287:17 beacon 209:19 beam 42:5,8 bean 46:7 bear 163:1 193:4 beard 176:15 188:7 bearing 22:22 110:8 211:4 beautiful 15:1 18:19 38:3 41:20,24 42:6 52:21 53:8 66:15 70:19 76:4 91:22 123:16 124:3 126:8 176:4 199:9 292:17 beautifully 41:6,15 88:17 123:14 124:15 138:7 178:8 189:23,24 274:8 beauty 35:5 38:18 108:9 began 181:24 beginning 25:25 36:15 61:7 66:19 88:3 106:1 195:4 280:24 beginnings 93:1 94:21 begins 63:6 184:14 215:6 behalf 164:8 252:25 behave 284:5 behaving 284:7 belief 82:25 83:1 180:20 192:14 201:17 201:19,20 beliefs 192:15 believe 7:12 46:6 51:9 70:4 October 15, 2024 Page 12 94:4 141:2,15 164:20 166:12 167:2 181:8 182:5 191:2 198:12,14 199:6 200:22 239:15 259:21 267:11 268:16 280:23 285:22 286:7 291:19 295:16 bell 62:12,13 62:14,17 79:10 79:10,17,21 88:16,25 92:3 92:10 162:6,6 168:15 171:6,6 190:10 284:21 bell's 62:16 beneath 27:10 29:21 beneficial 150:11 benefits 83:6 benjamin 102:15 bernstein 1:20 5:23,25,25 12:4,4 37:25 38:1,2 90:3,4,5 117:5,7,8 136:9 165:24 165:25 166:17 167:4 179:15 179:16 183:5 201:9,10 217:14,21,24 218:2 222:22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 222:23,24 238:4 239:8,14 267:3,4,5,9 278:20 best 17:11 42:23 45:14 72:7,7 81:14 114:22 132:16 185:24 216:21 225:23 226:19 230:6 277:9,15 288:23 better 34:23 36:23 43:22 44:1 45:11 68:25 71:20 73:20 78:6 81:2 84:11 109:11 111:10 111:18 114:15 116:3 121:19 121:23 125:13 130:9 150:10 171:16 176:17 179:11 180:24 183:1 189:2 201:21 202:19 222:20 228:1 229:5 231:14 257:15 273:11 284:5 295:18 295:25 301:3 beyond 13:3 146:4 154:2 255:1 272:16 bicentennial 14:23 Meeting [bifurcated - breaking] bifurcated 136:13 big 65:15 172:20 bigger 167:23 255:4 289:16 289:18 biggest 140:24 bill 24:9 27:5,9 27:18 29:14,15 29:25 31:7,9 31:15 35:9 36:19 38:10 39:25 40:1 42:1,7 48:24 49:1,25 54:14 194:7 binds 251:2 birch 18:14 birth 60:6 77:2 84:1 birthday 256:6 birthright 259:7 bit 16:15 36:23 48:23 56:3 73:2,23 93:9 93:12,14,19,25 105:8 111:16 111:20 115:7 121:23 123:3 126:17 143:1 146:24 147:5 151:6 170:5 175:23,23 176:16,17 177:1,1,13 186:14,18 October 15, 2024 Page 13 187:23 190:3 193:10 196:2 197:10 205:17 220:23 222:2 226:12 229:14 229:15 231:14 268:17 270:10 271:7 272:7,15 286:16,18 black 3:14 11:4 154:9 172:11 196:9 206:9 208:18 212:4,7 212:11,20 213:7 214:20 215:3 220:2 223:6 234:20 236:1 242:17 242:18,22 243:6,14,18 244:16 245:12 246:19 289:2 290:2,4,19 294:11 296:5 296:11 blessings 97:25 block 227:9 231:10 blocked 208:20 blood 290:25 291:11 blown 112:16 board 245:1 253:15 254:18 294:2 bodied 227:24 body 190:8 211:23 boils 215:14 bold 49:6 67:19 115:1 172:23 211:22 248:24 265:10 266:3 277:13 bolder 229:5 boldest 58:3 83:8 boldly 30:8 60:2 211:17 226:24 boldness 49:17 bondage 156:4 195:6,9 196:16 296:12 bonds 13:3 boneza 2:19 9:8 book 87:21 90:13 184:25 262:18 books 215:5 248:15 249:7 274:7 boots 222:17 border 26:12 26:14 168:10 born 18:6 21:25 28:23 62:1 156:18 253:16 boston 3:17 11:8 216:11 284:25 bother 46:17 272:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 bothers 147:20 bottom 40:15 112:11 117:16 138:14 227:10 232:21 260:1 266:20 269:3 271:13 bound 195:10 196:18 bow 249:24 bowers 17:2 box 90:17,18 217:17 219:16 219:18 boxes 229:22 boy 159:7 187:22,23 251:23 boycotts 245:10 boys 52:19 53:2 brainer 76:4 branch 23:12 62:21 98:12 118:1 branches 75:5 98:10 99:17 100:9 139:5,9 brave 246:22 bravely 247:5 bravery 255:11 break 55:16,19 96:7 137:17 202:8 240:19 298:21 breaking 42:11 160:22 189:16 Meeting [breaking - c] 232:11 breaks 29:5 101:17 brearly 44:16 brendan 3:1 10:2 brevity 68:22 brick 99:19,19 102:8 bricks 71:15 102:6 147:23 bridge 251:6 251:13 269:22 272:9,13,15 277:19,20,20 283:7,14 289:25 291:17 bridges 3:18,18 3:19 11:11 154:8,10 246:5 246:6 247:13 247:25 248:14 249:7,15,23 252:23 253:2,5 253:22 255:24 257:12,20 258:10 260:13 262:5 263:16 264:11 266:20 267:21 268:11 268:14 271:6 271:12 273:17 274:1 276:17 278:23 279:3 280:14,17 287:14 291:22 292:17 293:23 295:4,5,9 October 15, 2024 Page 14 297:19 300:16 300:23 bridges's 259:20 293:17 bridging 251:15 brief 40:22 152:11 briefly 66:10 bright 163:9 brilliant 256:22 bring 20:19 50:16 51:5 70:11 104:11 142:18 195:5 207:18 238:1 bringing 54:17 195:8 brings 30:8 221:18 britain 57:1 156:3 britannia 125:8 british 28:17 61:22 63:8 242:25 broad 149:8 183:18 208:9 broader 208:12 226:16 275:9 broadly 84:16 297:24 broken 161:7 162:19 171:10 174:23 175:3 179:5,6 189:3 189:9,18 199:23 200:7 bronze 15:20 15:22,25 brother 170:21 171:25 brothers 287:20 brought 13:22 76:22 118:23 139:3 157:12 176:9 220:4 292:4 296:11 brown 245:1 253:14 294:2 brutality 157:3 brutally 245:4 buffalo 14:25 bugle 90:10 build 71:15 102:9 103:22 building 29:5 46:2 73:21 93:21,23 99:18 101:17 114:12 114:14 117:23 118:1,16,20 159:11 161:16 166:20 210:1 222:1 273:21 294:8 buildings 180:15 226:17 builds 101:13 built 26:25 166:24 bullion 15:2,16 22:18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 bunch 171:22 171:23 232:20 272:12,21 291:18 burden 105:23 bureaucracy 85:13 buried 290:6 burned 290:2 burns 207:16 burst 140:22 bus 245:9 buses 290:1 bush 170:19 business 11:22 12:15 128:15 128:20 254:20 254:21 292:6 bust 83:16 160:8 172:16 172:25 228:4 232:12,12 239:24 240:1 busy 37:15 38:7 39:7 43:14 46:4 49:20 167:20 170:5 175:23 271:4 282:25 293:20 button 211:7 237:3 bye 243:17 c c 4:1 5:8 39:18 129:19,22,25 302:1,1 Meeting [cady - ccac] cady 184:17 207:3 cake 299:25 calf 288:10 call 4:3,3 5:9 5:23 43:20 44:3 103:11 164:12 171:23 243:3 248:7 251:19 276:15 281:14 292:14 300:8 callback 69:11 called 8:21 183:19,22 243:3 calls 93:9 155:21 calm 274:7 camaraderie 13:22 camera 197:17 campaign 208:5 242:24 296:20 campaigns 207:17 canadian 116:10,14 candidate 4:12 4:16,20 5:1,3,4 7:18 22:9 24:20 25:3 31:17,25 32:7 32:9 33:9 55:9 56:7 96:2,17 103:18,25 104:18 127:23 October 15, 2024 Page 15 155:9 158:11 205:25 206:15 212:2 248:6 candidates 96:18 134:23 240:15 243:21 298:18 candle 159:12 candlelight 159:8 candor 74:17 canopy 27:7 100:19 cap 70:5,11 77:11 capable 157:23 capitol 73:21 73:23 100:8 111:23 117:23 118:2 159:11 161:16 166:20 181:20 210:1 219:5 222:1,6 222:25 223:4 225:17 229:7 capitol's 181:21 capozzola 1:21 6:6,8 12:8,8 38:22,24,25 65:10,11,12 108:18,20,21 135:13,14,16 135:17,18,21 141:16,16,20 183:7,8,10 223:25 224:2,3 239:19 260:8,9 260:10 278:10 capozzola's 136:10 191:7 capture 65:24 88:20 184:20 captures 30:12 62:4 88:16,17 88:21 89:12 106:12 108:7 108:14 159:16 161:21 249:9 care 13:8 78:12 115:23 168:14 168:15 190:2 214:14 215:17 career 17:25 184:8 254:19 careful 20:9 236:2 277:18 carefully 25:16 30:7 carrie 207:15 carried 233:20 246:19 288:12 carries 12:14 143:11 161:23 301:18 carry 259:5 carrying 23:12 274:7 cartoony 190:3 carve 59:3 carved 28:16 28:18 61:21 102:16 carving 59:15 90:23 91:8 111:3 117:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 cascading 250:2 case 43:17 65:25 77:15 93:19 94:11 107:17 137:2 cases 155:19 cash 119:13 cashier 119:15 126:15 cast 211:2 249:25 casting 211:10 casts 159:10 210:21 211:3 catalyze 26:8 61:15 250:4 category 183:19 catt 207:15 caught 141:13 cause 159:3,19 162:7 caused 289:5 caveat 41:21 188:25 ccac 1:16,19 2:24 3:1,4 5:12 7:12,17 8:8 9:22,25 11:23 13:1,6,13,21 13:25 14:12 15:3,7,12,23 16:10,12 17:4 17:12 18:7 25:6 32:25 55:15 64:10 96:6 103:12 Meeting [ccac - chair] 104:4 178:5 202:6,15 240:17 241:2 262:9 299:1 celebrate 21:15 220:10 284:12 celebrating 19:17 67:21 celebration 73:16 cent 18:14 62:25 75:17 77:17 94:23 151:20 centennial 210:15 center 3:5 10:15 27:21 102:7 159:9 central 211:9 cents 58:19 214:7 centuries 21:8 21:20 century 57:17 59:6 80:8 94:23 97:15 125:8 183:21 197:19 209:1 216:19 certain 57:20 78:3 80:5 106:14,14 114:20 169:6 certainly 5:15 11:15 13:11 18:24 19:2 35:13 54:8 October 15, 2024 Page 16 67:4 94:8,20 95:2 104:19 109:14 114:6 114:16 115:1 127:15 129:3 132:22 150:23 164:12 169:7 177:3 201:25 216:2 238:1 243:8 255:12 273:4 278:11 278:14 certificate 15:20 certify 302:2 cetera 298:1 cfa 25:7 64:10 chain 95:15 162:19 177:11 233:10 chains 79:18 169:13 171:10 174:23 175:3 179:5 180:1 196:14 199:23 200:7 chair 1:14 4:7 5:9 6:2,9,13,16 6:19,23 7:2,5,9 8:16,24 9:2,5,8 9:11,14,17,20 9:24 10:2,6 12:6,10,13 18:22 19:14 31:18,22 33:5 33:19 34:4 35:19 37:3,24 38:21 40:18 42:13 45:17 47:22 49:11 50:21 51:8,21 52:6 53:25 54:6,23 55:3,6 55:23 63:18 64:22 65:12 67:24 68:16 71:10 74:6 75:22 77:20 80:12 89:23 92:13 95:21 96:15 102:13 102:17 104:14 108:17 110:24 111:5 112:25 113:23 115:6 115:11 117:4 118:22 119:2 120:8 121:6,25 124:23 126:6 127:18 128:12 128:19 130:4 130:12 131:14 132:10,15 133:24 134:3 134:18 135:20 136:8,15 137:14 138:2 139:21 140:11 141:1,12,21 142:8,22 143:4 143:10,14 144:10 146:6 147:8,14 148:8 149:15 150:7 150:22 151:8 151:25 158:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 158:14 165:13 167:5 169:20 172:1 173:23 175:14 177:21 179:14 181:4 182:18 183:2,6 186:20 190:19 192:25 196:25 197:3 201:4,24 202:13,21 203:12,23,24 204:12 205:8 205:23 206:14 206:18,21 212:3,9 214:18 216:1 217:5 218:3 219:24 222:21 223:24 226:5 227:15 228:24 230:8 232:5 233:7 235:12 237:11 237:25 238:11 238:18,24 239:10,16 240:9,25 241:22 242:4 242:14,17,21 243:6,19 248:9 248:11 252:22 254:8 255:19 256:24 260:7 262:13 265:13 267:2 268:7 270:17 273:12 276:8 278:6 291:22 292:10 297:16 298:14 Meeting [chair - circulating] 298:25 299:23 300:1,8,22,25 301:10,13,17 chaired 44:17 44:24 chairman 35:18 50:11 68:19 92:12 103:11 118:5 119:7 120:7 122:3 165:9 174:2 175:13 187:2 218:15 220:2 248:5 257:10 265:18 chairperson 1:18 7:11 challenge 65:20 224:5,10 245:7 challenged 207:22 challenges 185:20 challenging 155:4 champion 24:18 championed 156:9 champions 154:12 chance 137:6 chaney 290:3 change 26:8 61:15 68:13 84:13 135:9 143:1 150:4 October 15, 2024 Page 17 157:23 171:20 177:3,5 180:1 209:20 232:22 237:17,22 242:8 247:9 248:19 250:5 250:18 260:15 288:4,16,19,20 changed 44:24 70:5 286:17 changes 70:6 137:22 changing 76:11 chapman 207:15 character 250:19 charges 37:18 charter 25:18 29:24 97:10 charters 23:20 23:24 24:3,12 25:6 27:21 30:4 check 166:11 166:14 167:3 181:16 checks 98:11 chest 248:15 chief 2:21,25 8:22 9:14,25 137:16,20 204:8 216:10 child 27:10 126:16 134:13 139:15 154:9 154:14 256:15 287:9 288:3 294:8,21 child's 49:25 210:7 childhood 176:10 children 249:1 249:11,12,19 249:25 293:16 295:5 choice 78:11 82:1 90:20 91:6,10,10 108:3 111:12 111:25 114:24 114:25 115:10 144:20 179:3 181:6 191:20 228:8 231:23 258:18 286:20 291:5,19 choices 75:20 113:22 118:5 120:5 216:21 225:6 239:8 267:1 choose 28:24 32:23 33:11 72:21 79:16 86:6 114:16 219:2 264:20 286:22 290:23 291:2 chorus 12:12 143:9 301:16 chose 62:2 188:19 192:17 221:24 283:22 286:2,24 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 290:21 chosen 30:7 289:4 chris 12:8 38:25 65:12 67:25 68:4 93:24 108:21 111:1 135:17 135:17 141:15 141:16 183:9 224:3 230:19 260:10 267:6 267:10 276:20 277:4 christopher 1:21 6:6 38:22 65:9 108:18 183:6 223:25 260:8 chronicle 25:14 61:5 101:2 chronological 94:19 125:17 126:24 233:10 chronologica... 92:20 233:18 chuck 6:21 church 207:14 circles 63:1 circling 18:13 42:6 circulating 15:15 19:7,17 19:21,24 21:17 33:25 39:2,19 88:15 108:23 109:24 153:5 154:14 172:12 Meeting [circulating - coin] 225:6 278:12 278:15 circulatory 91:15 circumstances 57:4 cities 251:9 citizens 1:3,12 5:9 12:17 15:8 15:10 16:2 24:23 27:9 30:15,18,21 62:7,9 82:15 155:25 208:17 208:25 251:13 252:7 302:3 citizenship 198:4 civic 107:13 160:12 161:2 210:23 211:3 civil 5:5 7:24 11:11 31:13 56:22 152:20 154:7,11 166:25 184:1 186:8 243:23 244:2,15 245:15,21,22 245:25 246:21 247:10,13,18 247:23 249:14 250:2,9,24 251:3,5,18 252:1,5,14 256:19 257:4 259:11 260:22 261:12 271:22 October 15, 2024 Page 18 272:19 274:22 283:1 289:23 290:14 295:21 296:2,9,12,13 296:17 297:25 298:19 claim 79:14 204:8 clapper 92:3 clarification 50:22 240:10 clarify 132:13 135:22 141:17 182:19 239:12 239:20 clarity 81:17 131:17 172:21 202:19 241:5 299:5 clasped 61:1 94:4 250:21 258:24 class 197:13 220:12,24 246:14 256:11 293:12 296:25 classes 173:13 classic 70:2 92:25 94:17 146:11 classical 83:21 126:2 144:21 145:12 147:1 154:2 classics 171:4 classmates 293:17 classroom 81:3 215:7 249:16 274:3 285:3 288:22 294:10 classrooms 275:2 clean 70:2,12 232:9 264:3 277:4 cleaner 170:11 clear 40:9 67:20 106:10 129:12 149:5 211:23 224:24 227:11 241:12 242:13 251:14 258:13 278:18 clearly 47:10 71:1 86:12 89:16 154:20 185:10 272:15 293:23 297:13 298:12 clever 223:14 cliff 272:13 climb 162:25 climbing 189:10 201:1 close 121:12 185:6 193:13 241:19 closed 141:5 189:19,22 closely 40:4 108:1 272:10 clothing 78:14 148:25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 cloud 138:15 clouds 26:1,17 29:6 41:25 61:7 77:4 101:4,18 140:7 clueless 236:23 clusters 112:5 clutched 248:15 249:8 cluttered 229:6 cnn 148:19 coalition 156:7 208:9 210:20 252:4 codified 161:18 211:18 coffin 246:20 cognizant 54:15 184:23 coherence 40:8 coherent 39:10 39:16 coherently 40:15 cohesion 233:25 cohesive 49:16 cohesiveness 49:23 coin 8:14 19:25 22:16,23 23:25 24:21 25:22 28:7 33:25 34:1 36:6,7,24 38:9,10 39:2 43:20 52:15,15 52:19,20,21 53:2,6,8,11 Meeting [coin - comes] 58:21 62:25 65:20 67:7 69:7 70:14 71:2 73:14,20 74:19 76:13 78:16 79:7,8,9 81:18 84:9 85:25 88:21 91:24,25 106:15 107:17 107:19 108:22 108:23 111:11 111:13 112:8 113:12,18,19 116:7,14,24 119:15 122:18 124:7 127:13 133:6,16,21 138:16 143:2 146:19 148:14 148:20,23 154:18 172:6 172:10 178:7 190:12 199:14 199:16,17 212:25 213:5 213:21,25 214:25 215:20 218:25 223:2 224:19,22 226:25 227:22 228:3 229:12 230:5,22 232:21 236:4 239:18,24 256:8 260:18 261:13 263:1,2 263:5,8,17,23 October 15, 2024 Page 19 264:17,18 271:11 273:16 275:3,9 278:12 278:15 286:24 286:25 290:13 290:23 291:3,6 292:25,25 293:18 294:17 294:23,24 298:10 coin's 56:14 154:15 coinage 1:3,12 5:10 12:17 13:20 15:9,10 15:16,16,16 16:2 19:7,17 19:22 24:23 36:3 66:4 74:21 75:16 88:15 94:23 302:3 coinages 125:8 coincide 23:22 coincident 138:15 coinnews 8:13 coins 4:13 7:19 8:5 10:9 14:16 14:22,25 15:1 15:1,2 21:17 22:10,18,21,25 23:4,11 24:5 32:18,22 38:17 42:2 43:7,22 43:23 55:10 66:8 74:5 82:23 91:21 94:2 95:12 109:24 116:9 116:10,12 119:11,14,18 122:6 128:23 132:17 142:13 146:20 148:17 149:13 153:5,9 172:12,17 226:14 230:1 233:17 234:10 234:21 264:25 266:18 274:2 275:20 286:5 291:14 292:22 296:3,5 298:2 298:4 colleague 147:7 214:23 278:19 colleagues 13:1 16:13,22,25 120:5 191:19 216:5 237:5 243:3 collect 142:12 146:5 collectable 19:25 collected 43:23 43:24 45:12 collectible 34:1 210:14 collectibles 14:17 collecting 119:14 collection 28:14 79:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 collective 21:9 159:22 161:13 162:17 210:23 250:14 251:15 252:18 295:20 295:23 296:8,9 296:20 collectively 24:15 56:18 152:23 160:13 collector 14:18 14:22 74:19 collector's 144:19,20 collectors 142:23 145:5 146:19 college 98:6 colonial 155:16 colonies 26:13 27:3,17 28:12 61:19 63:7 color 290:25 colored 288:2 288:15 column 87:2,8 107:22 200:3 come 21:22 89:4 132:25 133:22 143:2 197:21 233:1 235:20,21 252:4 281:18 290:18 300:12 comes 78:24 87:5 102:8 106:17 269:19 293:8 Meeting [coming - compellingly] coming 31:3 35:10 37:14 41:25 46:11 70:16 71:3 102:2 122:13 123:22 142:14 147:15 186:8 189:13 231:17 232:10,20 commemorate 58:13 99:5 commemorat... 58:21 63:22 96:3 127:24 128:24 143:16 143:18 165:22 202:4 217:11 240:16 243:22 257:4 271:18 298:19 commemorat... 63:12 153:14 commemorat... 199:14,16 252:21 263:4 commended 21:17 42:17 comment 47:5 47:18 112:20 118:6 119:4 142:11 196:13 201:10 218:5 239:2 242:15 242:19 300:11 commentary 259:16 commented 139:13 181:9 comments 4:7 12:1,24 19:9 34:5,9 40:17 40:22 46:11 49:14 53:16 54:3,7,25 65:3 65:6 91:7 92:12,15 95:1 95:6,23,24 105:2 124:24 127:6,21 133:10 139:14 139:23 140:18 143:25 147:9 148:9 152:1 167:7,13 177:20 186:21 191:7 192:6 197:4,12 201:8 203:14 205:11 217:6 218:4,7 218:10 234:18 237:13 238:19 240:12 241:24 242:1 243:7,10 243:14 260:11 278:8 280:13 292:12 300:4,5 commission 24:24 commissions 20:10 commitment 24:19 160:21 committed 15:4 committee 1:3 1:13 5:10,22 October 15, 2024 Page 20 11:22 12:18 13:4,23 15:4,9 15:11 16:2,18 16:23 18:8,25 24:24 32:17 33:10 34:15 35:22 40:11 44:13,15,17,20 44:21,23,24 50:5,17 55:8 63:21 64:19 83:1 89:7 96:1 104:23 118:12 126:13 127:22 134:11 136:6 137:21 139:18 140:9 151:4 152:14 163:23 164:10 165:16 165:21 167:8 167:12 180:13 191:23 202:3 204:6,10 212:6 213:10,10 214:8 216:3 217:9 218:9 236:4 237:13 238:20 240:14 243:11 253:1,4 254:11 255:22 257:3 259:19 261:20,21 273:19 276:12 278:9 292:2,13 298:17 302:4 committee's 137:18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 committees 20:11 51:2 common 17:25 22:4 23:5,10 97:24 155:2,2 commonly 43:23,24 45:12 215:5 communicate 39:13 43:15,16 43:18 89:15 136:4 263:18 263:19 community 255:13 270:5 companion 101:10 103:19 104:1 210:14 company 243:1 compared 279:4 comparison 104:9 compatible 52:13 compelled 93:4 110:9 245:6 compelling 40:14 71:8 90:12 92:23 146:3 173:7 191:20 193:2 197:5 213:12 223:6,9 230:23 280:16 compellingly 185:10 Meeting [complain - consequences] complain 84:2 complement 140:23 complements 69:14 completed 181:22 182:3,5 completely 46:15 117:10 189:21,21 195:5 220:19 236:2 completion 20:20 complex 85:20 115:15 261:9 261:13 complicated 91:14 component 41:20 298:8 comport 153:13 239:22 240:3,8 composed 245:25 composition 204:10 comprehensi... 137:7 compromise 44:12 146:10 computer 90:6 212:22 conceived 20:23 33:2 concentrating 284:6 concentric 63:1 concept 33:1 48:14 82:20 86:25 112:15 134:9 144:3 247:12 concepts 30:3 153:4 conceptual 59:16 conceptualiz... 20:3 conceptually 87:24 concern 107:14 123:3 125:12 139:3 169:3,4 169:4 238:17 concerned 36:8 41:10 42:19 52:16,17 53:1 53:4,9 69:5 109:20,21 116:8,13 125:14 269:15 concerns 49:19 50:2 67:6 71:1 85:1 105:11 109:19 124:25 139:17 147:18 183:4 234:11 259:11 265:15 concert 64:16 conclude 51:17 51:19 52:3 concluded 44:18 205:13 October 15, 2024 Page 21 concludes 31:17 63:16 104:13 115:10 212:1 252:20 conclusion 102:17 concrete 224:8 condescending 196:9 conditions 187:24 conduct 292:6 conducted 207:16 confederate 53:19,23 conference 239:3 273:20 confidence 274:7 confident 219:22 confidently 99:20 184:19 confirm 8:19 167:1 confrontational 207:24 confronted 160:20 246:18 confronting 280:3 confused 83:14 87:8 confusing 86:11 181:3 185:17 186:18 280:25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 confusion 36:8 127:10,14 congratulate 16:16 20:15 34:15 165:1 congratulatio... 14:11 16:12 congress 10:18 56:25 57:2 congressional 15:17 conjunction 260:18 connect 262:7 connected 107:6 149:6 connection 34:2 162:9 280:11 connections 279:13 connects 31:11 154:20 connoting 28:12 61:18 cons 226:10 conscience 247:8 consensus 217:1 consent 24:17 31:4 57:25 59:5 85:6 102:4 consequence 205:3 consequences 83:6 Meeting [consider - continuity] consider 48:14 88:4 127:16 137:4 143:18 146:13 152:4 155:5 180:11 198:10 205:24 243:20 275:21 considerably 181:13 considerate 189:5 consideration 50:17 56:6 65:5 105:1 118:25 138:6 139:4,20 167:10 231:1 considerations 88:7 183:4 235:16 considered 79:7 113:21 253:13,25 255:9 292:24 considering 78:21 96:18 115:20 123:19 188:18 260:5 260:20 300:20 considers 59:20 consist 24:4 consistency 38:17 78:3 140:2 232:11 consistent 30:2 41:23 47:1 78:20 133:22 October 15, 2024 Page 22 138:14,23 140:5 228:1 consistently 151:13 constance 256:10 constant 123:15 constantly 187:13 196:10 constitution 4:22 7:21 10:13 23:8 24:8 25:11 26:15,21 27:4 29:2,4,8,13 30:23 31:1,6 32:3 35:9 36:17 38:8 42:1 44:14,22 53:20,23,23 54:13 56:3,21 67:13,14 72:11 72:16 76:9 78:7,8,15,25 79:15 85:25 91:9 96:11,20 96:25 97:3,9 97:19,21 98:2 98:9,20 99:1,6 99:14,15,22 100:2,6,10,17 100:25 101:8 101:16,20 102:1,10,25 103:6,15,19 104:1,7 105:21 106:7,11 107:1 108:7,12 109:1 109:12 110:7,7 111:22 112:14 113:7,8,13 114:4 119:22 119:25 122:23 123:6,7 125:20 127:12,25 128:25 131:16 131:17 143:19 144:5,7 145:3 151:8 156:15 168:19 194:7 206:24 209:13 244:3 constitution's 97:12 constitutional 102:14 105:17 construc 46:2 constructing 148:4 construction 29:6 38:8 39:11 101:18 148:3 182:2 consultation 20:10 consume 17:15 contact 103:12 contacted 239:3 contained 28:22 62:1 contains 15:19 contemplate 106:17,19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 contemporary 66:25 67:20 78:16 120:3 147:25 contention 123:1 context 87:4 145:22,23 157:18 258:7 258:12 continental 56:25 75:16 97:1 continually 22:4 106:19 continuance 36:4 continue 16:24 19:4,15 23:9 38:23 106:4 143:15 157:24 160:4 215:21 216:12 256:5 272:14 275:24 continued 156:5 157:13 246:12 continues 216:24 272:10 continuing 36:19 217:3 236:11,15 296:19 continuities 279:13 continuity 40:24 81:16 83:15 123:12 Meeting [continuity - cracks] 172:15 191:11 226:13 continuous 31:12 continuum 216:17 contract 79:8 contradictory 90:24 contrast 188:22 189:24 211:15 contribute 275:24 contributed 209:7 257:14 contributing 17:7 contributions 13:20 15:12 contributor 164:15 control 107:4 controversial 236:25 conundrum 238:10 convention 44:18 97:1 102:14,15,18 200:20 207:4 conventions 104:11 conversation 41:2 82:16 91:7 134:22 173:3 185:16 204:1,17 213:5 October 15, 2024 Page 23 221:14 238:5 256:19 conversations 64:17 104:3 256:21,22 284:1 convey 27:25 115:3 177:18 213:14 260:25 285:12 conveying 36:14,22 65:20 66:18 224:6 286:8 conveys 66:22 66:24 67:5 109:3 230:16 260:22 261:8 262:3,7 convictions 158:21 209:18 convinced 213:13 convincing 219:16 cool 45:7 229:12 230:4 coordinated 20:13 copper 18:14 181:24 core 24:10 30:9 85:18 100:21 163:3 cornerstone 102:6 correct 33:20 52:14 92:3 134:1 142:4 166:13 178:14 181:14 223:1 267:7,11 corrected 283:13 correctly 17:15 168:3 237:6 cost 169:6 costello 2:22 9:17,19 54:25 55:4,4 263:1 coty 116:12 council 11:6 96:6 counsel 2:25,25 9:25,25 55:15 202:6,15 240:17 241:1 299:1 302:11 302:15 countenance 158:18 countless 211:24 230:17 246:1,22 country 66:6 82:19 98:23 100:15,21 106:6,11 107:2 152:24 158:24 173:3 209:24 212:1 275:25 281:12 282:17 282:19 283:2,3 286:4 291:1,11 country's 59:14 153:24 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 157:17 247:15 counts 276:25 couple 46:10 47:2 64:5 65:15 81:9 105:20 110:10 116:9 133:20 140:5 143:1 183:16 262:16 courage 213:21 219:3 250:14 255:11 274:10 courageous 245:20 248:22 courageously 274:21 course 13:2 17:10 36:11,19 40:5 50:12 64:19 75:3 87:3 102:19 110:2 121:6 126:8 129:1 146:21 181:15 233:21 274:1 court 244:8,11 244:24 302:20 courts 207:23 cover 87:21 covered 95:18 181:23 cq 109:14,18 cq02 72:2,7 crack 62:16 cracking 73:11 73:16 91:15 cracks 110:20 110:25 Meeting [cradling - declaration] cradling 59:10 74:12 crafted 13:7 25:16 crafting 29:3 101:15 create 63:6 69:23 233:25 created 33:2 57:19 59:17 60:18 61:2 87:1 103:7,14 163:4 168:21 171:19,21 173:14 177:1,5 184:14 186:4 188:11,23 195:22 207:9 creates 263:16 creating 208:2 233:10 creative 18:4 creator 57:20 credible 175:7 credit 17:22 crisp 277:4 criteria 54:16 critical 20:25 99:6 106:3 criticisms 134:12 cross 51:18 251:13 crossed 289:25 crosses 296:25 crossing 283:7 crow 244:7 crowded 89:2 179:9 crowds 284:11 crowned 99:23 crucial 21:21 82:19 107:16 208:11 cruel 160:18 crush 229:20 crushing 161:23 cry 211:18,22 culminated 156:14 208:3 245:22 culminating 21:1 culmination 20:7 cultivation 39:12 culture 3:11 10:23 11:14 17:8 164:18 183:25 216:9 248:4 curator 1:18 3:10 7:11 10:22 11:12 164:17 216:8 216:10 248:3 curious 42:9 64:7 curls 29:19 currency 75:16 current 23:7 173:18 181:21 182:23 October 15, 2024 Page 24 currently 144:18 275:7 cursive 39:23 40:4 curvy 67:15 cute 273:6 cutting 113:8 d d 5:8 40:14 41:16 129:13 129:15,21,21 129:21,24 135:23 141:18 141:24 d.c. 1:14 176:5 dad 18:11 daddy's 288:7 dallas 207:15 damstra 52:20 116:9 dare 13:12 date 14:23 26:11 40:15 84:2 120:17 127:10,13 134:23 302:6 dates 68:7 77:7 77:7 84:1 120:18 146:14 daughter 13:15 18:4 david 17:1 44:16 117:24 dawn 26:2 61:8 161:7 day 5:11,11 78:24 216:24 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 246:10,13,16 247:5 250:3,23 256:4,5 284:21 285:1 287:5,21 294:9 300:6 days 57:2 263:14 dc 302:7 deal 13:17 53:14 178:17 236:5,15 dealing 32:1,3 deals 227:5 dear 214:22 death 84:2 245:6 debated 28:23 62:2 214:3 debates 216:15 debt 256:17 decades 173:17 184:21 215:9 215:10 decent 21:25 deceptively 224:16 decide 52:11 53:13 228:15 286:10 decided 138:20 279:2 285:21 291:6 decision 150:16 244:11 300:23 decisions 244:9 declaration 4:18 7:20 10:12 19:18 Meeting [declaration - depict] 24:7,22 25:10 25:22,24 26:4 26:10 27:1 28:6,7,9 29:1 30:11,14,21 32:2 35:7,12 35:15 36:7 37:17 38:15 39:24 50:24 54:13 56:8,20 56:23 57:3,9 58:2,8,13,20 59:2,12,16,22 59:24 60:8,15 60:18 61:11,16 62:6,15 63:5 63:16,17,23 65:17,22 66:17 70:8,17,25 73:22 74:9 75:13 77:1 79:1 81:8,18 82:1 83:3,6,7 83:24 84:20 86:13 87:9 88:2,19 90:16 90:18 91:16 92:17 93:25 94:14 96:4 98:21 99:10 101:11,14 103:14,17,24 104:6 105:14 109:9,13 110:13 114:2 114:21 120:14 125:3,18,24 128:24 130:6 October 15, 2024 Page 25 133:1 143:16 144:5,6 145:3 151:21 163:4 168:21 184:13 194:6 207:6,7 207:8 declaration's 26:5 110:14 declare 56:25 declared 57:20 97:18 declares 60:2 97:13 declaring 66:1 211:21 244:13 244:25 deco 211:11 231:10,13 232:23 236:17 dedicated 24:5 213:20 deem 33:1 deep 59:19 90:11 273:20 273:20 deeper 24:12 deeply 106:9 184:23 defense 97:24 defer 136:7 212:7 define 24:15 58:4 83:10 defined 57:10 98:13 99:8 297:14 defines 97:4 250:19 definitely 69:7 109:18,21 199:4 259:15 269:21 281:2 281:18 282:1 286:18 definitively 58:21 deflects 44:4 degree 104:17 125:6 delay 51:14 53:5 134:22 deliberate 162:8 204:6 deliberation 214:15 delimiter 120:20 delivered 156:21 157:6,8 245:19 delivering 159:14 demand 156:8 211:9 demands 161:17 209:20 democracy 25:20 28:3 30:6 82:20 95:17 211:5,19 213:20 246:3 251:22 296:14 democratic 21:7 24:19 30:19 62:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 demonstrate 161:1 251:18 demonstrated 250:15 demonstrates 83:7 227:3 229:13 274:25 dennis 3:4 4:8 7:17 12:18,22 13:6,9,19,24 14:5,13,21 15:3 16:3,11 18:22 35:23 dennis's 13:14 denomination 22:22 74:23 146:22 175:24 deny 208:23 department 15:7 18:17 81:2 departure 13:12 19:20 depending 142:15 225:1 depict 25:25 56:12 59:23 60:17 61:1 62:11 66:5 80:3,6 100:8 158:1,17 159:13 161:9 163:24 184:19 187:9,24 196:17 204:11 209:17 215:1 224:9 250:7 Meeting [depicted - designs] depicted 76:14 80:14,17 94:1 159:6 160:2 170:18 173:4 190:1 198:12 198:25 199:12 204:3 211:11 247:12 298:2 depicting 80:2 103:1 185:13 189:9 depiction 29:5 85:17 93:17 94:5 101:16 126:1 168:2 187:22 188:16 189:1 200:15 209:5 depictions 58:7 98:25 145:2,2 153:8,10,15 162:6 168:12 196:5 depicts 28:20 59:10,19 60:5 61:6,24 62:19 63:4 99:19 100:3 103:9 159:24 160:6 162:16 185:6 210:17 211:1 211:20 249:15 251:23 252:10 deposition 302:13 depth 158:19 deputy 2:14,25 9:24 12:21 October 15, 2024 Page 26 14:3,4 16:5 249:2 293:25 derived 59:4 80:15 deriving 57:24 85:5 described 57:4 193:8 describes 98:2 98:13 114:6 description 83:8 descriptions 83:23 89:6,8 desegregate 154:9 deserves 81:24 81:25 design 2:15,16 2:17,18,19,20 2:22 8:4,22,25 9:3,6,9,12,18 15:15 20:13 23:10 25:23,25 26:10,12,16,16 27:5,6,18 28:8 28:20 29:2,3 29:14 30:11,12 30:23 31:7 33:11 36:7,17 36:20 37:10,21 38:8,15 40:23 41:15,24 45:25 46:19,24 47:2 47:6,8 48:15 49:7 52:17 53:3 60:22 61:2,6 66:15 67:12 68:8 69:1,17 70:5 70:12,15,19 71:22,25 72:3 73:15,25 74:18 75:10,20 76:2 76:3,7,8,12,18 76:23,24 78:19 79:17 81:15,20 83:22,24 84:8 84:22 85:16,22 86:6,11 87:11 87:13 89:7,12 90:10,19,19,20 90:23,25 91:5 91:13,17,20,21 92:2,8,9,9 96:17 100:11 101:3,10 103:2 105:11,13,17 105:18 106:18 107:5,10 112:12,23 113:12 116:14 117:11,12,14 117:17 118:19 118:21 121:16 122:13,16 123:2,8,17 124:6,7 125:4 125:14 126:6,8 129:13 130:17 131:11,20 132:5 133:2 134:22 135:4 138:13 141:7 149:22 150:6 151:15 152:25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 155:4 159:20 159:20 161:15 162:19 165:11 166:3 168:7,24 170:11,23 171:12 172:9 174:8 175:9 182:17 187:16 189:1,3 190:8 190:10 191:20 202:25 203:6 209:4,11,20,25 210:12 216:21 219:1 220:17 220:25 221:5 222:6,15,18 223:15,18,21 227:10 229:3 229:24 233:21 234:12 235:5 235:22 237:22 239:15 240:15 241:17 243:20 249:2 250:3 252:16 267:17 268:6 269:9,22 270:22 274:13 293:21 295:2 295:11,14,14 295:15,25 298:18 299:8 299:16 designed 108:6 designers 258:2 designs 4:12,16 4:20 5:1,4,5 7:18 11:17 Meeting [designs - direction] 19:21 20:1 22:9 23:6 24:21 25:2,3,9 27:25 28:8 31:17,25 32:8 32:9,17,23 33:1,6,8,9 34:18 36:1 38:2 41:23 45:8,10 48:7 51:18 55:9 56:7 58:6 60:5 60:19 63:17,22 64:2,11,13 68:14 69:14 71:13,16 72:11 72:16 81:7 84:20 85:19 86:20 88:10 90:9 96:2,19 98:24 99:15 100:7 103:16 103:18,25 104:1,13,18 105:20 106:24 108:3 118:7 122:7 123:20 125:10 127:24 136:23 137:2 141:9 142:1 144:18,21,25 145:7,17 146:10 147:1 149:25,25 150:9,14 152:5 152:14 155:9 158:1,5,11,16 160:14 163:24 October 15, 2024 Page 27 165:21 167:17 167:17 168:5 170:17 172:23 179:25 180:5 191:2,5,24 193:1 197:5 202:4 203:10 205:25 206:15 209:16 210:5 212:2 216:25 217:10 218:16 223:11,12 226:9 227:13 234:21 235:20 237:16 238:2 248:7,13,20 250:6,13 252:21 257:3 257:23 258:1 263:24 266:10 269:11 275:14 279:15 280:15 296:2,4 299:21 desire 204:9 desk 28:16 41:16 61:21 90:17 249:16 desks 249:18 despite 149:20 240:5 246:13 detail 84:3,6 102:12 222:4 222:16 225:15 detailed 68:19 68:21 157:2 274:9 details 70:19 71:1 137:8 149:3 188:7 220:18 258:2 259:8 determination 159:12 162:3 239:25 250:11 277:14 determine 59:1 97:17 determined 244:20 246:1 detract 258:16 develop 25:3 developed 297:22 developing 139:10 206:6 development 51:7 157:19 deviating 107:15 device 138:17 devoted 17:25 dictionary 180:18 died 182:25 288:17 289:25 290:25 291:10 dies 143:1 difference 59:9 188:13 247:4 differences 21:19 281:17 different 21:13 21:14 32:23 44:2 49:1,3 53:11 70:3 71:25 72:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 82:9 105:20 117:9 138:25 140:3 143:1 148:20 168:24 186:9 210:13 215:15,16 220:11,22 229:15 233:1 254:21 285:9 285:21 286:17 differently 193:10 difficult 20:6 37:12 108:21 125:5 126:10 222:2 264:15 264:25 268:17 dignified 159:25 digression 45:18 diligent 20:8 dime 8:2 20:21 64:3,4 72:23 74:4 dimes 74:24,24 77:12 263:4 diminished 172:24 174:17 diminution 91:24 dip 84:11 diplomat 184:11 direction 37:7 53:7 106:5 129:12 137:23 302:9 Meeting [directional - dome] directional 189:15 directly 98:4 107:18 122:17 157:4 207:10 director 2:14 2:23 3:5,14 9:21 10:14,17 11:5 12:21 14:3,4,9 16:5 20:16,18 206:10 directors 16:10 disabled 256:14 disagree 147:6 disappointed 170:16 discard 115:25 discovered 198:19 discovery 30:12 62:4 159:8 discrimination 244:21 245:14 294:5 discuss 8:1,3 132:16 142:3,3 151:6 283:22 289:1,6 discussed 74:1 228:4 discussing 118:7 216:21 254:3 discussion 4:11 4:15,19,24 5:1 October 15, 2024 Page 28 5:3,4 7:18 32:13,19 34:6 50:6 51:25 54:17 55:8 63:24 64:24 95:9,9 96:1,9 129:2 141:15 142:9 143:5,15 143:23 144:9 164:13 165:6 165:16,19 173:12 194:19 202:2 205:13 205:22 217:12 218:8 256:25 discussions 33:24 137:9 157:19 213:10 257:5 disempowered 261:9 disney 254:17 281:9 display 235:1 displayed 36:13 70:25 259:25 displaying 58:25 100:1 dissipating 29:6 101:18 distant 154:19 distinct 81:12 106:1 226:10 distinction 22:20 104:12 distinctly 85:14 211:11 distinguish 222:8 distinguished 159:10 distinguishing 59:5 97:14 222:1 distract 274:24 distracting 235:8 distracts 274:19 275:5 distributed 103:12 distribution 98:17 diverse 210:19 224:7 251:13 252:3 diversity 295:23 298:1 divided 269:4 divine 59:7 97:16 division 247:20 doable 239:9 document 28:11,23 29:9 29:19 30:10 31:15 44:19 60:21 61:12,18 62:1 63:6 76:10 91:18 101:20 114:5 117:21 120:22 documents 12:1 24:6,13 24:15 25:15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 27:16,23,24 28:2 41:4 46:16 54:18,20 61:6 100:11 101:3 103:23 104:10,12 106:20 107:4 111:4 251:22 doing 16:21 34:19 39:3 45:13 48:21 67:17 80:10,10 89:13 111:22 112:21,22 119:12 136:23 138:13 154:18 165:2 185:4 193:17 223:23 255:6 262:18 263:9,11 264:24 294:25 295:1 doll 246:20 dollar 8:2 20:22 58:18 81:20,21 83:2 88:5 99:12 158:8 209:15 210:16 226:1 227:23 233:14 233:15,23 238:15 247:23 279:19 dollars 56:16 142:17,17 dome 100:8 166:22 181:20 181:21,22 Meeting [dome - earlier] 182:2,5,23 domes 181:25 domestic 97:23 dominating 31:2 102:1 don 46:15,21 77:22 263:3 272:6 donald 2:3 6:19,23 42:13 48:17 52:7 109:3 115:12 117:4 167:15 171:15 174:5 227:15 262:14 265:13,20 266:1 donald's 178:1 232:10 265:15 door 128:3 266:24 276:22 293:22 dots 110:20 double 167:3 230:21 douglass 3:9 10:21 153:19 153:23 156:17 156:19 157:1 157:13,15,22 158:2,18,23 159:2,9,14,16 159:24 160:7 160:10 163:6 163:15,25 164:4,6,9 166:5,22 170:3 172:22 173:4 October 15, 2024 Page 29 173:11,17,20 174:5 176:1,3 176:8,15 182:8 182:15,25 183:15 184:2,7 184:19 185:2 186:5,22 187:10 188:4 188:18,20 191:8,13 193:13,23 194:12,23 196:4 197:11 197:16 198:5,9 198:25 199:12 200:17 204:7 259:18,23 275:3 294:13 downplays 190:6 dq 72:7 109:8 dr 1:21 6:2,4,6 11:2,4 17:22 38:22 65:9 108:18 135:12 191:7 206:9 212:4,7,11,20 213:7 214:19 215:3 220:2 223:6,25 234:19 236:1 242:17,18,22 243:6,18 245:11 260:8 285:12 draft 30:14 44:21 62:6 77:1 drafted 44:15 drafters 57:16 63:5 drafting 28:9 36:14 61:16 102:25 dramatic 19:20 draw 62:14 261:19 drawn 30:8 48:8,16 86:23 93:6 94:3 126:5 145:17 186:1 191:17 221:23 222:8 223:5 258:23 274:8 275:11 277:17 draws 60:4 186:14 dream 214:5 245:19 dress 78:16 147:20,23 210:19 222:2 222:16 258:3 dressed 148:5 dresses 281:3,8 driving 250:18 298:9 dropped 64:5 drove 284:8 dudley 207:15 due 29:18 90:12 148:12 duly 302:8 dump 219:18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 dusty 180:18 dynamic 83:18 86:6 87:13 89:19 123:2 161:3 173:4 261:9 dynasties 97:16 e e 4:1 5:8,8 23:16 58:11 68:12 99:3 102:7 114:13 147:4 155:3 158:2 209:9 222:13 226:25 242:25,25 247:16 262:3 302:1,1 e's 67:15 eager 258:21 274:1 eagle 22:14,16 22:21 23:11 62:20,22,23 74:21 77:15 earlier 45:22 46:22 50:12 55:24 74:22 109:7 110:9 111:15 112:15 125:25 126:3 132:22 148:6 175:22 181:19 185:16 192:3 205:18 230:15 282:24 283:12 301:2 Meeting [earliest - emily] earliest 74:21 155:23 early 32:14 62:20,25 94:22 162:5 183:21 263:14 earn 219:7 earned 154:24 easier 90:5 easily 67:8 139:16 235:20 235:21 277:9 eastern 156:18 easy 40:12 237:20,23 264:3 eat 287:24 eats 276:22 ebay 238:7 echo 120:11 175:19 213:7 214:22 260:10 292:21 301:2 echoed 250:12 echoes 26:23 101:9 echoing 62:17 eclipses 105:19 economic 256:12 296:25 edge 18:15 272:12 edifying 54:21 editor 8:13,15 educated 249:19 education 77:10 217:3 October 15, 2024 Page 30 245:2 248:17 249:17 293:6 294:3 educator 294:10 effect 42:4 97:2 232:2 259:24 effected 51:4 effective 187:8 187:18 258:24 298:4 effectively 208:19 278:24 effects 210:6 effort 164:25 180:23 195:5 209:7 224:6 252:18 272:24 295:20 efforts 156:13 193:21 eight 17:7 24:20 130:14 130:21 131:13 203:1,2 299:9 eighteenth 59:6 either 36:20 56:12 79:2 89:9 94:9 110:12 136:21 137:10 190:23 191:16 200:11 228:2,17 232:8 233:3 237:21 264:7 265:11 elder 159:25 193:20 elected 98:4,6 election 85:9 electoral 98:6 electronically 55:14 elegant 68:7,14 269:8 element 37:10 37:10 53:3 104:20 123:5 138:9 149:8 227:10 elementary 246:8,11 elements 49:25 58:9 83:24 84:5 93:14 99:2 122:6 145:12 211:16 267:25 elevate 21:16 172:25 elizabeth 184:17 207:2 elliott 3:10 10:22 11:12 164:16,22 165:10 181:11 187:3 192:1,5 192:8 193:4 196:25 197:2 205:15,21 248:3 255:20 255:23 256:25 257:10 292:15 292:16 297:19 297:23 301:6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 elliott's 201:15 ellis 270:2 eloquence 13:13 eloquently 293:24 emancipation 157:10 159:5 161:8 163:1 182:4 194:9 embedded 59:12 emblazoned 211:7 emblem 99:24 274:21 emblematic 91:8 158:5 209:11 247:18 275:8 embodied 102:8 embodiment 25:19 160:24 embodying 57:12 159:17 161:13 251:25 embracing 266:23 emerge 26:1 61:7 emerged 157:16 211:12 emerges 161:6 emerging 30:18 62:9 emily 52:20 116:9 Meeting [emmett - equality] emmett 245:4 emotional 43:21 44:4 emotionally 43:8 emphasis 277:7 emphasize 107:17 279:2 emphasized 213:23 280:1 emphasizes 123:6 154:19 emphasizing 28:22 61:25 63:12,14 122:21 249:24 employed 302:12,15 employee 302:14 employs 25:14 30:2 61:4 101:1 empowering 266:11 emptied 284:19 empty 249:18 emulates 172:16 enabling 19:25 enacted 209:1 244:4 encapsulates 155:11 encircle 27:17 encircles 160:25 162:19 October 15, 2024 Page 31 encompass 217:1 encompassed 156:12 encounter 87:16 183:14 encounters 84:10 encourage 243:2 encouraging 157:23 endeavor 93:2 endeavors 254:22 ended 193:24 194:1 endowed 57:20 ends 283:15 endure 287:15 endured 247:3 enduring 28:1 210:24 energy 17:16 enforce 236:11 enforcing 294:1 enfranchisem... 208:17 enfranchising 207:1 engage 18:1 165:10 233:9 engaged 153:2 153:16 157:4 engagement 19:20 engaging 148:16 english 201:14 engraver 2:21 9:15 137:16,20 204:8 engraving 2:22 9:18 87:1 enhance 69:8 135:9 enjoy 48:12 68:25 119:12 enjoyed 227:2 256:21 258:5 enlightened 107:2 enlightenment 26:3 28:13,21 57:13 59:11 61:10,20 74:13 76:15 99:21 100:5 120:16 enraptured 159:20 enriching 17:6 enshrined 30:4 enslaved 156:18 159:7 188:24 196:18 enslavement 155:15 160:16 ensure 33:2 97:23 137:24 226:24 261:11 ensuring 244:4 entered 246:10 289:22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 entertain 52:2 139:23 143:22 300:4 enticing 236:19 enticingly 20:1 entire 17:25 36:2 80:22 84:13 117:3 121:17 133:7 138:16 196:6 entirely 22:2 254:24 entitled 55:20 96:12 128:9 202:10 240:22 298:22 301:24 environment 95:14 173:19 environmental 25:17 equal 57:19 59:18 61:2 87:1 163:4 168:21 171:19 171:21 172:19 173:15 177:1,5 184:15 186:4 188:11,23 195:22 207:10 238:8 244:4,13 244:22 261:11 283:9 equality 87:5 155:13 194:5 208:12 210:10 210:21 237:18 237:19 246:3 247:20 248:21 Meeting [equality - expands] 250:24 251:20 252:19 294:15 296:14,21 equally 35:3 185:24 equitable 250:16 252:2 era 161:8 170:20 229:13 236:18 249:5 249:21 eradicating 160:21 erecting 29:7 101:19 err 68:22 escape 85:11 escaped 156:19 escort 287:4 293:14 escorted 246:8 246:15 249:2 escorting 267:20 especially 41:10 42:6 45:15 74:23 81:7 95:12 195:12 196:6 220:11 221:1 221:22 222:17 227:9 258:6 268:11 269:12 275:8 287:7 espoused 60:20 essence 54:13 essential 24:6 28:1 29:23 October 15, 2024 Page 32 31:8 160:5 essentially 32:12 83:16 168:4 establish 97:22 established 22:15 57:17 97:19 222:25 establishes 97:3 258:12 establishing 258:7 establishment 152:18 esteem 18:20 esteemed 18:15 35:23 147:7 et 298:1 etched 158:19 europeans 82:13 evaluation 54:16 evans 2:18 9:5 9:7 56:9 96:21 152:7 206:2 243:23 event 21:12 53:9 65:19,23 65:23 events 145:15 219:6 279:4 eventually 184:11 283:3 everhart 263:3 everybody 44:11 79:22 169:18 212:23 296:7 everyday 211:24 everyone's 234:24 295:16 eviction 247:2 evident 57:15 60:24 93:20 285:6 evil 286:1 290:20 evocation 110:3 evokes 28:14 evoking 159:14 250:8 evolving 38:18 48:15 exact 144:13 293:10 exactly 52:23 79:12 87:5 116:11 125:6 142:22 148:13 185:4 235:10 268:18 285:7 293:2 examine 152:18 example 33:11 45:22 157:22 172:13 225:1 226:20 235:18 244:10 247:1 279:16 excellent 76:3 129:10 178:6 227:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 excellently 49:6 69:12 88:10 except 35:4 53:23 113:5 exceptionally 20:6 excerpt 231:3 excited 66:11 273:15 exciting 49:6 84:12 86:5 108:5 140:13 165:6 172:9 exclude 173:16 exclusivity 33:10 excuse 90:10 90:20 150:3 executed 275:13 execution 124:20 executive 98:10 exemplifies 250:3 exemplify 154:25 exercised 63:15 exercising 210:18 expand 215:4 215:18 expanded 152:22 215:21 expands 153:24 Meeting [expansion - father] expansion 154:24 expansive 84:16 215:19 expectation 117:2 expectations 117:3 expensive 43:25 experience 17:6 118:15 213:9 276:2 experiences 158:20 244:17 experiment 21:7 expertise 11:16 experts 10:9 54:1 145:9 182:14 explain 46:12 110:25 224:14 224:14 explained 72:10 explaining 109:23 explanation 126:12 201:16 explicit 107:7 explicitly 83:5 106:13 173:7 explore 152:20 express 65:13 126:25 141:8 253:24 October 15, 2024 Page 33 expressed 59:21 93:6 99:10 116:7 153:7 expression 58:3,14 70:7 71:23,25 72:5 72:8,25 73:3 74:15,16 93:15 111:17 122:10 122:22 159:17 210:23 211:18 222:12 251:25 252:9 258:20 expressions 83:9 258:4 extend 158:25 extends 272:16 extension 206:25 extent 72:21 73:4 exterior 182:24 external 3:12 11:1 206:8 extra 136:24 224:10 294:17 extraordinary 57:4 169:6 extreme 179:8 extremely 15:4 204:5 224:8 286:8 294:6 eye 17:5 236:19 eyebrows 171:22 eyes 107:19 118:24 198:2 253:9 285:22 f f 302:1 face 44:7 45:10 71:23 72:6 111:17 122:10 155:1 169:10 193:14 258:21 266:25 277:13 286:17 289:24 289:24 294:12 294:18 faced 244:1 246:15 285:25 286:1 facial 258:4 facing 172:16 190:23,24 191:3 fact 12:16 13:13 21:5 32:7 33:6 46:17 51:5 69:21 70:24 80:5 89:24 93:23 94:1 109:10 122:16 122:20 174:13 181:5 187:12 189:5 215:15 218:16 236:25 240:7 252:24 258:8 266:22 271:19 281:1 282:15,16,25 283:10,14,15 292:11 293:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 failed 13:6 fair 245:24 296:18 faith 245:12 falls 35:11 184:13 200:20 207:4 familiar 84:14 93:10 family 13:14 14:5 17:20 19:1 164:5,6,8 247:3 255:13 283:23 289:20 289:22 famous 159:15 267:19 fan 94:8 176:23 190:23 271:11 281:14 fantastic 39:15 46:18 203:12 far 18:12 42:15 42:18 94:15 108:13 111:20 126:3 187:5 198:19 199:21 220:20 269:15 276:5 279:25 fascinating 79:25 fascism 244:18 fast 111:20 father 160:10 185:3,3,7 191:9,11 198:11 199:1 287:1,2,5,15 Meeting [father - find] 287:15,17 288:6,17 290:22 father's 247:1 291:3 295:9 fathers 185:13 favor 12:11 73:17 133:15 135:11,24 143:7 301:14 favorably 134:10 favorite 18:11 40:23 46:20 69:16 70:23 72:22 73:4 74:11 93:3 94:14 108:13 108:15 124:14 126:4 169:25 170:7 174:12 176:22 177:15 187:5 200:13 221:7 223:11 231:8 269:19 270:9 favorites 280:24 feature 29:10 58:6 60:19 63:11 98:24 101:21 153:19 166:19,19 223:3 248:13 252:2 featured 25:10 153:11,23 October 15, 2024 Page 34 features 26:12 59:15 60:13 61:2 99:25 100:11,14,23 102:5,12 103:5 154:7 155:4 160:1 209:4 211:6 247:11 249:22,24 250:21 featuring 23:11 49:2 96:19 118:20 154:14 february 14:12 federal 5:14 97:6,7 98:13 98:14 104:3 153:3,6 207:17 236:10 246:9 246:16 257:25 258:9 261:10 282:12 feedback 16:17 25:1 64:9 153:3 feel 37:15 66:13,25 89:5 108:10 109:7 110:3 119:16 126:25 134:8 145:18 191:24 193:2 196:5,9 219:18,21 281:19 291:24 feeling 19:11 293:5 feelings 84:23 137:10 feels 196:7,8 feet 231:2 fell 281:4 fellow 57:15 209:21 288:10 felt 39:5 52:9 118:15,16 213:10 253:23 277:18,20 288:5,14 289:13 female 180:7 188:17 feminine 80:16 80:18 feminist 184:12 184:12 ferguson 244:11,25 fertile 60:14 100:16 field 31:2 89:2 102:1 287:18 fields 271:14 fierce 157:14 161:22 fiftieth 142:13 fight 157:13 160:1,5 193:22 193:22 208:11 215:15 235:2 250:24 252:5 fighting 154:6 155:19 162:4 195:3 213:13 216:18 244:18 256:12 282:18 294:4,18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 fights 156:8 figure 52:16,18 52:23,24 71:18 73:3 146:2 154:8 162:1 166:6 188:17 197:16 198:7,8 204:21 211:16 228:2,3 233:19 235:9 268:18 271:5,6 figurehead 87:14 figures 153:8 153:14,25 162:24 215:10 228:21 229:8 233:22 234:4 252:6 268:19 269:10 274:18 fill 121:17 filled 89:9 fills 293:3 final 44:21 51:14 129:2 152:12,15 243:21 300:4 300:11 finally 5:18 8:3 10:6 30:1 31:7 63:10 67:18 89:11 103:9 160:6 211:20 249:22 252:10 financially 302:16 find 38:2,6 49:15 54:20 Meeting [find - form] 72:22 81:14 92:19,22 93:5 93:16 94:11 109:16 117:10 125:4,16 126:7 126:25 145:16 191:1,18 197:5 213:15 218:24 262:8 267:6 279:24 280:16 288:3 289:20 fine 24:24 52:5 113:15 140:14 176:12 186:3 190:15 272:5 finger 125:5 finish 106:16 finished 19:8 fireworks 28:15 first 5:11 11:22 12:23 14:25 21:25 22:8 23:7 25:23 36:6 41:17,24 42:3 45:25 46:17,20 47:2 48:22 58:3 65:17 67:10 71:14 73:9 74:2,17 79:7 82:1 83:8 84:9 87:15 89:13 90:19 91:5,9 92:8 105:9 106:7,8 111:12 111:25 114:24 128:14,19 October 15, 2024 Page 35 132:16 133:13 133:16,16,21 134:7,10,15 135:2 138:16 138:23 140:6 149:12,24 151:10 152:13 152:18 154:9 158:16 163:14 166:3 172:6 176:11 181:22 183:18 194:17 207:4 229:3 231:11 238:8 243:25 253:5,6 254:16 257:1 263:21 270:21 272:11 275:4 282:9,24 283:17 286:20 286:23 289:9 291:19 300:9 fist 162:16 179:8 189:20 200:7 fit 33:1 45:14 48:18 71:19 81:17 fits 83:22 84:4 123:12 188:3 190:11 226:19 238:5 fitted 271:15 five 7:24 11:10 34:9 55:16 56:11,15,19 65:6,14 66:9 70:15 76:23 77:13,25 82:5 92:17,18,19 96:7 105:2 129:22 130:20 131:3,12 132:2 150:13 154:22 218:10 233:10 243:21 299:11 fixed 161:15 flag 103:2,10 113:6,11 124:9 138:17,18 222:9,18 233:3 236:13 250:22 251:24 259:3,6 259:12 270:3,7 270:10 283:11 flags 223:10 251:12 272:25 flame 123:3,4 flames 100:4 flanked 209:21 flatter 140:19 fledgling 36:23 flight 23:12 flip 114:17 flipping 123:13 flourishing 29:23 flow 134:16 flowing 211:14 fly 226:2 fob 166:10 fobs 180:15 focal 236:3 focus 30:9 144:8 226:16 258:15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 folders 81:3 folks 54:14 95:18 119:19 266:13 293:3 follow 45:21 followed 149:19 following 8:19 46:25 52:1 128:7 134:9 149:19 152:25 211:12 217:15 224:11 244:2 follows 25:23 fond 49:24 font 39:23 40:3 40:4,25 94:8 110:4 146:13 147:4 226:25 231:10,13,15 232:23 fonts 236:17 273:22 food 95:19 force 159:18 250:18 275:19 294:1 forced 233:2 forces 106:16 forefront 248:18 foregoing 302:2 forget 19:2 forgive 264:14 forgotten 277:9 form 23:4 24:17 26:23 Meeting [form - freedom] 59:1 63:2 97:19 98:3 101:6,9 104:7 163:2 formally 245:13 format 39:8 113:19 formed 44:13 156:1,7 245:21 former 7:17 172:18 forming 13:3 29:10 31:12 101:21 forms 60:9 103:2 forth 27:1 72:15 119:14 171:8 260:5 fortunate 206:5 282:11 forward 11:15 16:24 25:8 27:10 50:14 56:19 85:18 107:23 117:19 117:20 119:24 129:5 133:18 134:16 152:23 160:13 165:5 203:13 209:18 213:12,21 214:11 219:2 219:13 222:5,6 222:10 223:7,9 247:5 249:17 250:11 275:23 October 15, 2024 Page 36 275:24 278:13 281:23 283:2 286:4 291:16 fought 161:18 162:18 209:23 244:23 249:14 250:15 252:1 283:1 287:2 found 19:21 38:19 40:13 90:9,11 100:5 122:5 126:18 173:6 180:18 181:20 215:11 238:7 289:22 foundation 3:18,19 41:4 57:17 99:18 102:5,9 114:13 163:2 210:9 254:19 foundational 111:3,4 162:9 248:21 founder 8:13 164:5 founders 97:18 99:8 founding 24:7 25:15 26:7 27:16,23 28:2 30:6,9 31:14 54:18 56:17 60:20 61:6,14 62:18 100:11 101:3 103:23 104:10 106:20 107:3 152:19 155:7 158:24 160:10,12 161:10 185:2,3 185:7,13 191:9 191:11 198:11 199:1 207:11 247:15 251:1 251:16,20,22 252:20 four 7:23 10:24 13:5 43:4,5 45:15 70:4 76:12 93:4 94:9 129:16,22 130:20,22 167:17 206:5 210:17 241:18 246:8 270:21 278:24 fourth 28:15 157:9 159:16 foxhole 287:18 fractured 76:20 95:14 fragility 62:17 62:17 frame 27:3 framed 15:19 222:13 259:10 frames 63:14 framework 26:22 29:7 97:5 98:23 99:8 101:8,19 framing 138:9 franklin 102:16,18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 frankly 118:17 125:9 138:19 292:4 frantz 246:7 fraser's 160:8 frederick 3:9 10:21 153:19 156:17,19 157:15 158:1 158:18 159:13 159:24 160:7 163:6,15,25 164:4,6,9 166:4,22 170:3 170:8 172:22 173:3,17 174:5 176:1,3,7,15 182:8,15,25 183:14 184:2,7 184:19 185:1 186:22 187:10 188:3,18 191:8 191:13 193:13 193:23 194:12 194:22 196:4 197:11,16 198:5,9 200:17 204:7 259:18 259:22 275:3 294:13 free 118:13 160:22 freeborn 188:19 freed 179:7 191:14 296:11 freedom 23:20 23:24 24:3 Meeting October 15, 2024 [freedom - george] 25:6 27:21 29:17 30:4 82:21 156:10 156:20 157:21 159:4 160:3,16 161:18 162:10 162:14 195:1,7 196:19 197:23 198:4 245:18 246:3 251:21 252:7,19 293:7 294:14 296:14 freedoms 27:8 29:23 43:4 45:15 161:12 freestyle 46:6 fresh 265:24 friend 17:1 288:23 friendly 141:17 friends 16:13 16:22,25 friendship 13:22 front 55:11 72:19 200:2 219:5 224:20 225:25 246:25 275:17 278:25 284:8,19 fueled 100:17 159:22 fugio 62:25 75:17 77:17 79:2,3,6,17 94:23 151:20 fugitive 198:1 Page 37 fulfill 248:23 296:14 fulfilled 22:3 fulfilling 157:6 full 22:17 136:21 139:9 162:15 173:5 176:15 215:24 227:24 235:1 249:6 286:10 294:1 fuller 6:2,4 fullest 252:9 fully 27:14 functional 98:23 functions 65:18 fundamental 29:16 57:10 98:8 fundamentally 251:2 further 50:6,6 55:7 96:1 118:4 137:8 138:5 142:8 182:20 202:2 218:6 302:9,13 future 21:1 27:13 86:1 99:20 106:4 139:4 142:1,20 142:23 154:16 160:4 250:16 250:20 281:21 g g 5:8 gabriel 70:16 gabrielle 93:13 gain 218:18,21 295:20 296:13 gained 244:15 gallery 187:12 galvanized 248:23 gap 251:15 garb 58:9 99:1 144:21 gardin 160:8 garrison 156:25 gary 241:3 gather 284:12 gathered 164:23 gathering 245:16 296:23 gatherings 156:12 gaudens 262:19,22 gaze 106:22 158:20 161:15 248:16 gazes 27:10 249:16 gear 144:22 gelberd 2:5 6:24 7:1 19:13 35:19,21,22 74:7,8,9 120:9 120:10,11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 146:8,9 175:16 175:17,18 230:9,10,11 238:13,13 268:8,9,10,15 gender 87:4 250:11 general 1:20 2:7,8 5:24 7:3 7:7 20:12 32:19 63:24 64:23 93:21 96:9 97:24 113:3 119:17 121:7 134:11 146:20 165:11 187:20 188:3 217:12 generalized 58:10 99:3 generally 220:10 generation 295:4 generational 210:7 generations 27:13 154:17 160:4 161:23 generic 78:25 79:1 gentle 248:16 gentlemen 8:17 genuinely 256:1 george 84:15 102:13 112:24 118:21 149:4 Meeting [george - good] 160:8 191:12 199:18 204:22 georgia 11:3 gesture 219:19 getter 135:24 241:14 getting 13:1 206:12 274:13 giant 190:6 gilkes 8:14 girl 247:4,7 248:18 288:7 293:12 give 16:6 87:12 111:19 112:19 114:8 115:9 118:24 137:20 152:11 241:5 242:9,12 given 95:13 197:11,15 198:7 231:1 276:25 gives 108:4 123:24 169:1 195:13 297:3 giving 40:25 70:16 89:21 173:5 227:12 255:24 glad 48:1 132:13 220:4 glance 67:10 149:12 272:11 glorious 213:8 214:10 go 13:3 16:8 25:23 35:5 October 15, 2024 Page 38 36:25 37:6 39:4 42:23 44:20 48:10 52:11 53:13 67:22 74:20 76:1 77:11 78:2 79:2 84:24 110:17 114:9 116:19 119:8 120:24 129:5 130:12 133:18 134:16 135:13,14,17 140:7,9 151:19 158:11 168:4,5 173:19 175:1 178:2 179:2 181:9,16 182:13,13 183:12 189:11 206:14 219:13 219:23 222:6 225:14 228:2 228:22 230:2,3 232:8,24 237:15 238:25 260:17 266:8,9 268:18 269:11 276:24 277:3 284:4 287:22 287:23 292:8 goal 22:4 207:20 god 23:17 58:12 77:10 99:4 114:11 146:14 158:3 209:10 247:17 269:3 271:13 300:20 goes 67:12 109:4 130:8 164:13 175:11 272:16 going 21:7 33:21 34:14,20 37:6 38:5 40:21 41:9,14 44:19 45:21 47:2 48:5 51:13,22 68:21 68:23 71:21 74:24 75:1,9 76:1,16 77:6 77:24 78:2,11 78:20,21 79:20 80:25 81:6,10 81:11,11 88:8 90:5,21 91:5,6 91:12 108:24 109:21 111:18 111:20 112:18 113:3,17 114:1 116:1 117:12 118:4 128:1 136:19 140:6 141:4 145:19 145:20,21 146:2,3,4,4 147:22 148:3,4 148:14,21,22 149:7,11 150:3 151:11,11 168:2 177:4 178:1,7,8,16 178:18,23 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 190:5 198:2 201:9 212:22 217:16 219:19 219:22 220:16 221:8 223:14 225:13 226:1 228:16,17 229:17,20 232:24 233:5 237:8 241:7 257:22 258:8 260:5,17 264:7 264:8,9,9,16 265:4 266:17 266:25 273:2 275:11,22,23 275:23,24 276:24 277:21 278:13 281:16 281:18 282:2,4 283:21 284:2,4 286:3 288:4,15 288:24 292:20 293:12,12 gold 14:21,24 14:25,25 15:17 227:22 good 5:9 14:4 16:16 18:1 21:24 22:5 38:1 40:11,20 47:24 68:12 76:24 77:4 105:7,13 112:25 117:11 117:14,19 122:10 129:9 129:10 133:8 Meeting [good - guess] 146:10 151:15 173:9,12 175:9 179:9 181:15 188:8 202:18 218:6 221:6 230:21 231:22 238:11 240:10 264:20 286:1,8 290:9,20 291:7 goodman 290:3 google 271:6 gorgeous 258:1 gotten 287:5 governance 26:19 161:17 governed 24:17 31:5 57:25 59:5 85:6 102:4 government 3:1 10:3 26:24 29:12 31:4 57:6 58:15 59:4 97:5,6,8 97:10,20 98:3 98:9,14 99:9 100:9 101:6,13 101:23 102:3 105:22,24 106:5 118:1 210:2 261:10 273:19,21 294:1 governmental 98:17 governments 57:23 October 15, 2024 Page 39 governor 44:23 grabbing 221:22 graceful 211:15 grade 77:8 140:25 288:21 graduated 273:25 granddaughter 263:5 grandfatherly 197:16 198:7 grandkid 86:12 grandparents 247:2 grandson 3:8 10:21 163:15 164:4 granted 208:1 granular 137:8 grateful 16:20 216:5 243:4 gratitude 256:18 gravitated 177:6 gray 184:21 grayscale 178:7 great 3:8,8,8 10:21,21,21 12:25 13:8,17 36:2,14,17 41:2 42:16 44:12 53:6 57:1 68:5 74:4 74:17 75:3,5 113:14 119:19 120:15,20,23 120:25 121:4 140:15 146:25 155:1 163:14 163:15,15 164:4,4,4 184:25 188:12 205:22 215:17 216:14 219:3 230:16,19 236:5 255:7 264:17,21 266:21 268:25 269:8 273:20 274:3 277:5 284:13 297:12 greco 85:16 greek 67:15 68:12 greeted 285:1 greg 2:25 9:24 33:16 55:15,17 96:6,8 128:2 128:15,21 129:5 132:10 182:18 202:6 202:15,16 239:11 240:9 240:18,20 241:1,22 298:20 299:1,3 299:23 grenade 288:9 grew 189:12 grip 85:11 gripping 211:23 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 grocery 126:16 ground 95:19 123:25 grounded 31:4 102:3 251:2 grounding 154:3 group 3:14 8:14 11:5 73:15 76:1 100:23 104:4 150:15 155:25 206:10 216:14 232:15 251:13 groups 112:1 169:6 283:19 grow 60:12 growing 26:17 69:19 100:21 101:4 139:6,6 151:13 grown 18:7 108:9 grownup 284:1 grows 29:22 115:6 growth 60:16 grueling 20:25 guarantee 57:7 208:16 guaranteed 27:9 guaranteeing 208:6 guard 229:19 guess 222:25 230:3 264:8 Meeting [guests - heard] guests 224:4 234:19 243:10 guided 24:13 109:5 guiding 225:4 274:19 guy 171:4,13 guys 111:21 300:17 h hair 59:13 70:9 86:18 99:16 123:1 184:21 188:7 249:24 hairdo 178:22 hairstyle 59:9 258:3 half 5:13 8:2 20:22 21:19 74:24 81:20,21 83:2 88:5 142:18 209:1 228:2 233:14 233:23 279:19 288:10 301:20 hall 60:17 62:12 73:20 75:12 79:13,14 91:17 93:18 103:5 118:8,14 118:20 287:25 hallmark 23:2 hamilton 15:21 hammered 69:22 124:16 hammering 69:16 71:14 October 15, 2024 Page 40 hanchock 2:19 9:8,10 hand 30:8 33:2 51:9 61:25 63:4,13 86:8 91:4 99:22 103:1 109:13 113:11 117:21 119:15 120:1 120:22 134:4 134:24 136:16 141:2 143:8 144:11 146:7 147:10 149:16 160:17,22 165:23 179:7,7 189:20 203:16 204:14 210:7 210:21 211:23 217:12 249:8 288:9 298:20 handed 122:20 hands 69:2 73:25 94:4 100:23 105:24 110:11 112:13 122:19 161:4 161:12 175:7 177:11 210:17 219:8,15,17 220:22 221:11 231:16 232:20 234:8 250:22 258:25 259:3 264:25 265:1 266:6 269:18 275:20 277:15 281:25 286:10 291:15 handsome 76:13 handwriting 113:7 happen 144:3 283:4 289:10 298:6 happened 44:11 64:8 67:6 118:17 266:3 289:14 290:11 happening 261:2 284:14 happens 182:3 happily 18:3 happiness 57:22 60:25 102:22 happy 18:25 46:15 47:19 52:8 54:11 132:25 136:12 164:1 186:11 198:1 223:15 226:11 242:8 274:4 278:14 harcourt 6:2 hard 21:3 65:24 106:21 138:12 154:24 160:3 161:18 170:18 224:9 224:11 283:1 287:7 harder 38:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 harm 271:16 harriet 94:6 207:12 hate 247:7 hated 213:9 hateful 293:15 hatred 284:10 285:1 294:12 head 79:3 116:1 144:22 224:5 239:23 239:25 275:18 276:1,4 headed 224:21 230:22 239:18 headline 148:19 headlines 149:13 heads 38:12 185:21 225:3 279:2 282:15 healthy 100:15 100:20 hear 20:22 48:5 49:9 78:11 79:22 89:24 128:8 129:7 169:17 197:12 212:13 212:18 214:8 254:3 270:1,4 heard 74:11 83:8 91:7 92:7 118:22 201:15 223:6 230:15 253:14 283:24 292:1 Meeting [hearing - hold] hearing 11:16 11:21 12:2,14 18:8 55:8 95:4 127:22 143:6 167:9 235:15 240:13 257:7 hearkening 78:18 hears 84:10 heart 285:4,5,8 288:7,9,13,18 heartfelt 292:18 heavy 125:5 300:18 heels 45:15 height 139:9 held 85:11 166:16 211:21 211:23 251:8 hell 111:21 hello 216:4 help 17:3 77:10 119:19 146:15 193:24 197:22 274:4 helped 247:9 252:13 296:12 296:13 helpful 104:19 204:5,20 helping 266:23 266:24,24 helps 138:8 heraldic 62:20 74:20 77:15 heraldry 75:4 October 15, 2024 Page 41 hero 288:8,8 herrera 3:12 10:25 206:7 212:4,15,18,21 214:19,21 220:2 234:19 235:13,14 243:13,16 hestia 122:12 hey 112:24 148:19 hi 133:11 146:8 163:17 164:22 229:1 239:4 hideous 116:2 high 77:5 130:17,23 131:10,20 132:4 133:15 179:19 183:13 201:13 202:24 203:5,10 211:21 241:13 241:16,19 273:25 299:8 299:15,21 higher 74:23 135:23 149:2 highest 22:22 129:17 144:18 highlight 56:16 105:18 188:12 188:22 highlighted 226:15 highlighting 28:21 85:4 104:16 226:19 249:20 highlights 28:19 248:16 highly 33:25 236:25 highway 251:8 hinder 150:17 hispanic 208:24 historian 21:10 184:25 261:7 historian's 242:19 historic 40:4 56:13 153:8,14 153:15 154:8 176:5 245:9 248:18 293:11 historical 20:4 127:15 145:14 166:21 177:2 183:11 204:20 209:9 220:15 220:20 267:25 historically 186:3 223:20 225:16 233:2 261:8 histories 21:13 history 1:22 3:11,13,16 6:7 10:23 11:2,3,7 11:8,13 17:9 21:12 22:14 23:3 24:14 58:2 80:9,24 88:15 98:20 99:7 109:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 115:8 119:9,20 121:2 152:17 154:5,19 157:17 164:18 185:1 197:12 197:13,15 206:8 207:1 208:9 212:24 214:2 215:2,5 215:6 216:8,9 216:11,16 217:4 245:16 246:7 248:4,22 253:8 260:15 289:2,7,12 290:7,11 291:25 296:6 hit 45:10 46:17 139:12 288:9 hitting 224:4 hmm 218:1 hoard 2:7 7:2,4 47:22,23,24 80:19,21 81:23 105:7 136:17 144:12,16 147:7 148:10 172:3,4,5 204:15 226:6,7 226:8 273:13 273:14,15,24 280:1 300:11 300:15 hobby 146:24 hoisting 251:12 hoists 209:19 hold 54:20 57:14 60:23 Meeting [hold - iguana] 66:12 69:22 75:8 128:17 158:24 275:19 holding 59:24 63:13 72:2,3 90:14 99:20 103:1 117:20 120:17,22 211:2 219:8 223:10 235:23 268:2 holds 99:22 106:25 251:24 296:3 hole 287:19 290:6 home 184:9 246:10 287:12 288:2 291:12 honestly 178:24 honor 13:18 24:10 164:24 255:10 268:12 honorable 165:3 honorably 15:13 honored 218:22 257:18 honoring 15:6 24:21 honors 83:5 hope 21:23,25 22:2 35:23 130:8 252:1 254:6 293:4 296:3 October 15, 2024 Page 42 hopeful 293:5 hopefully 89:22 229:21 274:2 hoping 143:21 horizontal 239:6 280:4,6 280:8 horn 59:25 horrific 218:21 horse 77:5 hour 5:13 301:21 hours 17:15 48:2 house 1:25 6:3 6:14 98:4 182:15 225:16 225:19 housed 24:4 29:12 101:23 household 289:6 housing 245:24 296:18 huge 84:12 253:7 266:14 human 156:4 162:1,24 163:5 169:5 186:12 196:5 humanity 198:3 humble 256:1 humbled 253:6 253:24 290:17 hundred 88:21 hundreds 271:20 hunger 207:25 hunt 3:5 10:14 31:19 54:1,6,9 54:23 95:5,5,8 95:22 127:5,8 127:19 hunt's 54:5 husband 13:15 17:22 hypocrisy 188:12 i iconic 30:24 79:11 82:19 87:3 88:12 101:24 106:8 178:9 226:15 250:9 251:3 261:25 262:11 263:12,13,15 269:23 275:14 278:10,19 279:9 281:7 282:13 icu 17:24 ida 207:13 idar 207:14 idea 42:8,10 59:17 108:7 112:18 133:17 178:19 190:5 200:6,7,25 204:6 222:8 231:22 236:16 236:24 251:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 253:19 266:14 271:2,12 293:4 296:18,20 ideals 24:19 27:1 28:19 59:11 61:10 83:1 101:14 155:13 156:9 157:6,25 161:10 193:25 207:11 246:3 248:21 251:16 251:20 252:6,9 252:19 294:14 ideas 26:3,7 28:1,22 57:12 57:16 61:15 62:1 63:9 212:25 251:1 identification 104:5 identified 297:19 identify 8:4 34:10 58:21 65:7 105:3 109:16 148:2 167:13 218:11 identity 30:17 58:5,15 62:8 83:10 iggy 14:6,7 19:2,3 ignited 159:3 ignorance 85:12 iguana 14:6 Meeting [ii - incredible] ii 15:25 138:18 244:17 illuminated 27:14 illuminating 129:12 illusion 209:22 illustrate 125:16 154:24 248:20 250:16 252:6 298:12 illustrates 29:3 101:15 159:2 210:6 252:16 illustrating 25:19 162:2 image 46:2 65:25 69:12 78:19 79:19 90:11 110:4 121:4 134:15 159:16 170:17 176:8 177:16 179:19,20 184:24,24 186:23 188:6 190:4 191:8 193:6,6,8,9,19 194:11 196:8 199:9 214:4 219:11 227:24 236:17 237:1,2 261:16,23,25 262:12 263:12 263:15,16 264:10,10 276:20,23 277:5,24 October 15, 2024 Page 43 278:13 279:25 293:10 imagery 27:25 30:2 34:2 36:17 121:21 166:13 177:17 250:25 images 56:13 78:3 146:11 196:23 198:18 221:9 260:2 264:5 275:15 297:3,6,11,13 imagine 255:2 immediate 81:1 86:24 183:22 immediately 37:13 40:6 110:5 126:11 173:18 236:5 262:1 immediatist 184:3 impact 25:18 43:21 44:4 194:19 250:2 255:7 274:20 297:14 impacted 246:24 impactful 188:6 255:1 impacts 88:2 impeded 244:6 imperative 294:16 295:7 295:11,24 implemented 244:7 implications 106:20 importance 157:20 important 62:25 66:3 82:24 106:9 126:25 138:10 157:16 164:25 168:3 172:25 173:2 174:15 183:16 184:4,6 187:9 188:21 193:16 194:5 195:12 204:25 214:25 215:1 219:6 232:16 244:10 258:6 260:25 266:4 267:25 269:23 271:17 274:15 275:1 281:20 285:18 291:25 294:6,21 295:3 295:8,8,9,10 295:22 296:23 impossible 47:15 impress 13:7 impressed 282:23 impression 87:7,9 impressive 283:16 286:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 imprisonment 180:2 196:15 196:16 inalienable 59:21 inappropriate 236:18 inch 15:20,22 incident 289:14 inclined 228:20 include 14:6 58:11,17,19 88:6 99:3,11 99:13 136:1 153:14 158:2,7 166:20 182:15 186:3 204:19 209:9,14 247:16,21 275:4 included 57:9 153:9 162:11 180:6 204:4 includes 7:14 23:15 60:22,24 103:3 128:22 including 29:17 154:17 157:7 184:9 207:12 208:23 215:11 246:19 inclusion 153:23 incorporates 26:11 incredible 34:16 255:10 268:12 Meeting [incredibly - installments] incredibly 66:15 214:25 255:1,16,16 incuse 264:7 incused 217:19 independence 4:18 7:20 10:12 19:19 20:24 22:1 24:8,22 25:10 25:22,24 26:4 26:10 27:2 28:6,7,10,18 29:1 30:14,22 32:2 35:7,12 35:15 37:18 50:24 56:8,20 56:24 57:1,3 58:2,8,13,20 59:3,13,17,22 59:24 60:3,9 60:15,17,18 61:17,23 62:12 63:5,16,23 65:18 66:18 70:17,25 73:20 73:22 74:10 75:12,14 77:2 79:1,13,14 81:8 83:3 86:13 87:10 90:17 91:17,17 92:17 93:18 94:1,14 96:4 98:22 99:11 101:11 103:5 103:14,17,25 104:6 109:9 114:3,21 118:8 118:14,20 125:3,24 128:24 130:7 133:2 143:17 151:22 163:5 194:7 207:8 independently 136:7 indicate 8:20 138:21 141:25 indicated 128:6 138:25 indicating 293:25 indicator 82:24 individual 23:3 24:18 31:8 63:2 155:19 186:16 226:14 255:5 257:5 273:3 individuals 28:24 62:2 221:9 246:23 inequality 251:17 inez 207:14 inflection 20:25 56:16 58:1,22 92:20 94:20 98:19 99:7 125:17,20 150:13 152:17 233:11 243:21 influence 26:4 27:15 October 15, 2024 Page 44 influenced 61:10 influences 17:8 information 119:11,25 181:20 186:24 204:13 266:6 informative 45:18 54:11 186:23 informed 26:25 101:13 inhabitants 162:13 inhumane 156:3 initial 137:21 initially 121:13 initiatives 10:18 164:7 248:1 injustice 160:21 251:11 inner 182:1,5 innocence 74:16 248:17 249:9 256:15 294:7 innovative 83:18 85:18 107:12 112:6 input 31:21 187:4 inputs 297:21 inscribed 60:10 210:9 inscription 26:9 27:18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 28:25 29:13,24 31:5,15 58:20 60:8,23 63:11 63:14 99:14 100:12,18,22 102:10 103:3,8 103:10 155:3 160:18,25 162:12 210:13 250:12 inscriptions 23:13,15 30:20 58:11,17 84:6 99:3,11 107:20 158:2,7 163:1 209:9,13 211:14 247:16 247:21 inscrutable 122:11 inside 88:25 92:10 118:16 285:3 insight 157:2 insights 90:2 inspection 27:4 inspiration 18:2 inspire 24:12 inspired 24:1 60:16 162:5 inspiring 28:3 38:4 160:3 255:17 installment 25:4 installments 50:15 Meeting [instance - job] instance 168:16 191:12 instantly 178:9 221:19 260:3 institute 11:4 57:6 instituted 57:23 institution 161:2 162:21 215:12 institutions 97:6 238:7 integral 122:23 integration 271:24 intellectually 17:5 intense 271:19 intent 70:7 110:14 244:9 249:17 intention 57:6 110:22 244:4 interest 15:13 116:7 136:12 153:7 interested 235:1 254:4 302:17 interesting 42:21 44:8,9 45:5 48:12 73:19 78:4 87:24 89:1 95:10 112:12 113:2 131:14 235:14 263:6 October 15, 2024 Page 45 280:18 interestingly 124:8 interference 68:10 interferes 78:17 interfering 222:14,19 intergenerati... 296:24 intergovernm... 2:24 3:2 9:21 10:4 interlocking 62:24 77:16 interpretation 145:11 interpreted 70:3 127:2 233:16 interracial 156:7 195:5 296:25 intertwining 100:4 intervening 261:11 intervention 262:10 intriguing 223:22 introduce 5:21 233:19 introduced 22:21 164:3 188:4 197:13 233:13 introduction 152:12 inundated 89:6 investor 14:22 investors 22:18 invite 191:22 212:5 234:19 280:13 invited 25:2 156:23 164:24 inviting 54:10 164:9 involved 48:19 214:3 230:18 235:2 242:23 267:13,13 297:4,25 ionic 87:2 irony 80:5 island 270:2 islander 256:13 issuance 23:17 issue 50:20 124:5 180:17 190:16 195:16 195:20 224:19 225:12 227:5 263:7,22,23 269:2 issued 48:20 182:4 issues 11:19 44:13 226:3 244:1 issuing 155:20 it'd 204:20 it'll 36:4 76:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 item 91:3 128:15,20 iteration 181:22 j jane 34:14 jeanne 1:23 6:9 34:11 46:25 50:1 68:1,4 119:4,7 134:24 135:2 136:2 140:11,13 141:1 147:10 147:14,17 148:8,12 173:24 174:3 218:12 265:2 265:14,19 267:2,23 jefferson 30:13 57:15 62:5 90:16,18 204:25 jen 3:12 10:25 128:13 206:7 212:13 jennifer 2:23 8:9,12,16 9:20 181:19 212:7 212:20 213:8 214:8 240:25 243:13 jersey 44:16,17 jim 244:7 job 16:16 18:11 36:21 38:4 196:11 247:1 Meeting [job - kings] 286:8 jobs 245:18 joe 54:24 55:2 95:24 110:25 137:25 138:3 139:21 140:17 238:25 239:4 239:10 264:4 267:16 john 1:25 6:13 32:19,20 45:19 45:21 51:9,11 63:25 64:1 71:11,13 74:14 76:19 78:6 111:6,9 116:22 124:25 125:12 132:21 133:10 133:11 134:6 134:20 139:24 139:25 142:8 149:15,17 169:21,23 172:1 228:25 229:1 237:13 237:14 256:9 270:18,20 277:19 john's 230:22 join 13:15 19:1 210:8 joined 10:7,14 10:20,25 11:11 18:7 250:23 joining 6:5 7:5 31:20 163:20 164:20 243:15 273:17 301:6 October 15, 2024 Page 46 joseph 2:21 9:14 138:5 238:21 239:1 journey 25:15 28:17 61:5,22 101:2 160:16 218:21 219:6 jovita 207:13 joy 13:17 213:3 joyful 213:12 251:25 joys 12:25 jr 245:12 judge 285:10 judicial 98:10 july 24:25 28:15 56:24 62:13 93:6 151:9 157:8,9 159:16 207:5 juncture 20:4 241:23 justice 97:22 154:13 155:14 158:22 160:5 161:17 194:4 210:10 232:1 245:15 246:4 252:11 256:12 294:14 296:15 296:21 justifiable 78:19 justified 57:5 juvenile 121:14 juxtaposing 210:1 k keep 21:6 34:9 40:22 48:4 50:5 65:6 105:2 129:4 135:4 138:13 167:12 218:9 228:20 272:3 keeping 33:17 138:13 167:18 190:16 keeps 222:11 kellen 2:7 7:2 47:22,24 49:11 55:13 80:19 90:13,22 91:1 105:5 108:17 115:18 136:16 137:15 144:11 146:6 147:2,18 148:9 149:20 168:23 172:3,5 174:4 184:16 191:10 204:14 226:6,8 259:17 273:13,15 276:8 280:1 300:10 kellen's 116:19 ken 3:8 10:20 163:14,16 205:15 kenneth 197:8 kept 122:13 189:12 key 30:3 100:24 105:21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 153:19 164:15 211:5 229:3 298:8 kid 86:12 294:20,24 kidding 89:24 kids 281:13,18 284:18,22 kind 34:2 36:12 44:4 46:4 48:15,19 49:4 52:9 53:6 71:23,24 73:2 78:9 79:24 80:4,5,8,8 84:11 85:3,16 86:19,24 91:2 110:16 112:1 113:16 115:21 115:24 116:17 116:18,23 117:16 133:13 136:18 139:7 144:22 152:5 168:9 169:9,18 171:2,4,15,17 173:15 185:11 196:1 215:23 219:17 225:5 229:25 230:1 232:3 270:13 270:23,24 271:10 273:6 283:14 298:9 king 245:12,18 285:12 296:17 kings 59:7 97:16 Meeting [kneeling - launched] kneeling 170:20 knew 185:4 288:1 knocked 73:8 know 6:3 13:1 16:6 34:21 35:16 45:6 47:9,13 72:23 75:3 85:23 89:9 102:22 104:19 105:16 110:19 112:24 115:18,21,24 118:9,18,18 119:10,16 122:8 126:10 135:1,6,7,18 136:21,24 138:18 139:6,8 140:2,7,19 142:24 144:14 144:16,22,23 145:11,12,18 146:11 148:1 148:11,18,18 148:20,21,23 148:24,25 149:2,9,10 150:2 151:14 151:17 166:24 167:22,24 168:6,7,9,10 168:11,13,13 168:14,19,20 168:22,22 169:2,2,5,7,9 169:11,13,13 October 15, 2024 Page 47 169:16,16,18 171:7 172:8,10 172:14,16,17 172:19 174:16 177:4 181:1 185:8,15,21,23 186:14 196:3 199:14,21 200:17 206:4 212:13,21 215:6,22 219:9 221:16 224:4 224:22,24 225:14,21 226:2 227:9,25 228:1,4,5,8,10 228:12,19,20 228:21 229:20 230:5 231:18 233:5 235:18 235:24 249:13 252:25 254:13 254:23 259:21 259:22 262:5 262:15 263:6,7 263:12,21,22 263:24,25 264:1,3,4,7,11 264:16,21,23 264:23 265:6,9 271:21 273:6 273:22 281:11 281:22 282:20 282:23 285:11 285:25 287:10 288:21 289:1 293:3,5 294:2 294:3,20 295:4 295:7,17 300:1 knowing 39:2 283:20 289:12 289:13 knowledge 221:20 known 157:7,8 213:17 214:2 215:14 knows 18:10 119:17 korean 287:2 kristie 2:14 l label 204:20 205:5 labor 29:7 101:18 laborers 36:18 labors 159:22 lack 295:18 lacking 35:8 lady 122:12 211:4 laid 251:22 lance 3:19 11:12 248:1 301:5 land 97:4 98:7 162:13 244:14 landed 176:13 181:13 landing 177:8 landmark 245:1 landscape 26:6 26:22 61:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 101:9 language 57:3 168:20 186:6,7 186:10 large 102:6 105:12 106:11 161:22 187:19 219:11 225:7 largely 22:6 215:12 larger 223:8 226:22 247:13 largest 206:25 245:15 lasting 88:2 108:12 latch 75:2 121:8 146:16 late 35:16 91:6 latin 80:15 latino 208:24 256:12 laughable 184:17 laughably 173:15 laughter 19:12 129:18 132:12 143:13 144:15 242:6,11 253:21 265:5 265:16,21 267:8 273:23 287:13 292:9 300:14 launched 23:8 57:16 Meeting [launching - liberty] launching 23:22 laura 160:7 laurel 61:3 78:13 law 19:24 29:18 97:4 161:18 244:5 244:14 laws 98:7 207:23 244:7 244:12 lay 251:11 laying 71:14 123:24 147:22 layout 121:15 177:9 leader 2:1,2,4 6:14,17,20 153:19 184:8 232:15 leaders 157:16 245:12 leading 20:24 22:1 256:5 291:4 leads 281:25 leaf 112:5 lean 38:14 68:5 226:11 232:18 leaning 35:3 52:25 198:14 199:5,24 200:12 201:2 223:8 learn 81:4 113:1 115:7 205:3 249:17 October 15, 2024 Page 48 258:21 271:7 274:8 289:19 learned 187:25 215:10 273:25 289:7 learning 10:17 176:7,10 lease 70:11 leave 81:18 108:16 115:8 133:23 134:15 140:14 144:7 151:24 226:4 280:12 292:7 leaves 59:13 86:18 99:23 112:1,16 leaving 188:10 284:20 lectured 14:16 led 245:9 lee 10:16 31:19 54:2 left 14:7 44:11 103:17,24 122:20 159:6 172:16 200:3 225:25 254:19 legacy 108:12 210:24 legal 22:23 32:16 63:20 104:23 165:20 217:8 257:2 legalized 156:4 legally 239:20 legends 272:20 legible 39:8 40:9 67:5 110:6 225:8 262:1 legislation 236:10 239:22 239:23 240:3 legislative 2:23 3:2,6 9:21 10:4 10:15 98:10 240:8 legs 52:25 288:11 lemmings 272:12 length 102:22 249:6 297:23 lens 209:9 leopold 142:14 lesson 80:24 109:4 183:12 183:12 291:25 lettering 18:14 30:8 69:13 190:16 231:11 letters 4:5 7:14 11:24 12:3 49:18 217:16 217:22 letting 89:20 260:14 291:21 level 13:2,3 98:16 205:4,6 241:5 levels 107:6 138:25 lewis 256:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 liaison 2:24 8:8 9:22 230:15 liaisons 229:2 260:12 268:11 liberate 187:13 liberator 156:25 libertas 80:15 liberties 24:18 31:14 57:7 125:7 144:4,17 149:21 154:25 244:22 liberty 23:16 28:19 56:13 57:22 58:7,17 58:24 59:10,13 59:15,19,24 60:10,14,25 62:11 69:16,18 73:3,10 76:13 78:3,14 79:10 79:10,17,21 80:3,6,13,14 80:16 82:2,3 82:14 83:14,22 84:18,21 85:4 85:10,15,16 86:7 87:9 88:12,13,16,20 88:25 90:11 92:3,10,24 97:25 98:8,25 99:11,16,19,25 100:3,17,21 106:17 107:11 107:19 117:18 120:16,19 Meeting [liberty - look] 122:12 126:1 144:20 145:2 145:11,13 146:12 147:22 152:22 153:8 153:10,16 154:1,3,5,13 154:23 155:13 156:10 157:20 158:7 160:25 161:20 162:6,6 162:12,15 163:6,9 168:15 169:5 171:6,6 186:12 190:10 194:4 195:2 196:5 197:23 209:8,14 210:10 211:4 233:13,14,15 233:19 234:2 237:18,19 246:3 247:12 247:22 248:21 252:7,12,19 279:16,19 liberty's 58:8 72:5 74:12,15 99:1 114:12 161:10 library 10:18 lies 252:17 life 21:25 57:21 60:24 82:9 188:1,18 285:20 life's 158:22 October 15, 2024 Page 49 lifelong 14:19 184:7,11 200:18 lifetime 166:23 182:8 lifting 205:5 light 51:5 84:14 100:17 104:12 107:5 123:19,22 159:11 163:8 liked 35:2 45:25 46:2 111:15 117:17 117:19 124:18 193:9 222:15 225:22 234:24 257:23 259:8 267:9,10 268:1 270:20 282:5 283:7 285:15 likely 261:1 liking 122:6 limit 244:7 lincoln 45:4 204:23 line 31:12 83:25 86:20 106:7 173:7 194:3 222:5 231:2,3 249:10 linea 140:18 lines 110:20 220:11,12 227:8 246:25 link 95:15 linked 79:18 291:15 linking 207:10 links 161:7 listen 255:18 listened 267:5 listening 5:20 194:18 256:21 280:18 lists 274:9 lit 159:12 literacy 208:21 literal 130:2 literally 18:7 little 16:14 35:10 36:23 38:4,7 41:7 43:19 49:20 52:16 53:9 56:3 68:25 73:2 81:24 93:6,8,12,14 93:19,24 105:8 109:23 111:16 111:17,20 115:7 116:8,13 118:4 120:2 121:23 122:10 122:11 131:17 143:1 146:24 151:6 170:15 176:16,17 177:13 180:14 182:19 186:14 186:18 193:10 196:2 197:10 205:17 206:22 223:22 226:12 229:14,15 231:14,16,20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 238:6 247:4 268:17 270:10 271:7 272:15 282:25 286:16 286:18 294:20 live 5:16 34:18 107:13 114:25 156:9 170:13 254:6 268:24 278:21 294:14 lived 64:13 158:19 208:18 256:3 288:19 living 25:19 26:22 101:8 108:8 114:5 125:18 154:17 193:25 256:2 263:8 271:23 272:6 284:11 llc 3:15 11:5 lloyd 156:24 local 207:17 lock 217:16,19 217:20 locked 250:7 277:15 logical 235:3 long 17:15 140:16 173:16 185:12 224:7 289:8 300:6 longer 30:17 62:8 63:8 67:23 211:17 longevity 86:14 look 11:15 21:1 37:13 38:5,11 Meeting [look - main] 42:24 47:10,10 47:15 64:25 77:25 89:8 105:15 109:17 112:3 114:18 115:7 117:18 124:8 137:6 139:11 145:13 151:15 178:22 178:25 192:9 193:9,13 195:23 197:25 198:2,17 199:17,17 221:10 230:1 230:21 231:16 236:20 261:23 272:10 275:20 277:17 278:4 285:9,24 293:11 294:22 looked 41:17 64:3 69:3 73:2 81:15,16,17 102:19 125:25 178:12 180:19 192:24 199:13 215:15,16 280:9 285:7,20 looking 32:11 32:21 50:13 64:17 70:8 71:6 73:13 78:22 80:1 85:18 89:19 90:20 92:16 93:7 106:18,22 108:11 112:11 October 15, 2024 Page 50 122:4,17 123:25 125:15 125:21 126:15 138:17 145:10 145:19,23 149:7,13 154:2 165:5 174:24 177:13 189:13 197:17 213:21 220:3 221:12 229:12 230:4 234:6 258:21 260:4 263:18 269:14 274:6 275:17 286:6,6 286:13 290:16 294:20 looks 46:7 47:7 47:16 73:7,11 86:7 100:19 112:3,9,10,15 113:8 185:18 199:1,8,10 229:18 231:18 265:1 272:11 272:13 293:9 294:25 loosely 267:18 lose 43:21 loses 42:3 269:4 loss 247:1 lost 13:13 288:10,11 lot 17:16 35:4 41:9,14 43:11 45:25 46:1,14 48:5 72:1,3 74:10 75:2 82:7 95:18,19 111:15 119:10 120:11 121:4 122:8 131:11 134:6,8 136:20 139:4,9 170:11 171:3 175:19 179:5 213:14 214:3 216:14 216:25 230:11 237:4 241:14 264:13 273:11 277:16 280:1 281:6 297:21 loud 293:15,15 loudly 66:1 183:9 242:3 loupe 278:4 love 39:17 40:24 41:15 42:25 70:7 74:12,18 83:25 115:18 120:21 122:16 123:8 123:23 124:5 185:17 193:8 196:3 198:24 199:16 200:6,7 214:8 222:4,4 223:18 231:15 236:16 258:19 266:22 268:23 278:2 loved 69:9 214:4 215:20 225:22 246:23 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 lovely 266:10 loyal 12:20 lucretia 207:3 lucy 207:16 lukewarm 122:5 134:12 lunch 32:14 52:1 55:18,25 96:9 128:1,7 128:13,20 246:20 luther 245:11 296:17 m m 220:1 mache 123:4 mad 70:18 made 13:20 21:22 67:7 104:10 105:25 106:9 109:17 110:5 142:15 147:19 155:22 156:20 181:23 193:9 196:13 228:12 239:25 246:6 254:17 260:11 270:24 285:9 magic 86:19 91:2 109:20,22 144:23 magnitude 215:24 main 29:10 86:16 87:18 101:21 176:14 Meeting [majority - matter] majority 2:1 6:17 82:4 151:4 208:18 236:23 242:10 make 32:25 35:16 47:1,10 47:15 51:19 52:3 54:3,7 64:20 74:4 86:11 90:5 99:9 112:4 114:1,16 115:7 118:6 119:11 127:7 132:20 133:5,7,21 137:12 139:11 140:20 141:5 142:11,25 143:21 147:24 148:1,11 150:8 150:16,22 189:18 194:14 197:4,22 201:9 203:18 225:9 226:2 227:4 232:23 236:15 237:5 240:6 242:19 247:3 256:7 262:7,7 262:10 279:10 279:13 283:4 288:19 298:7 makes 43:9 89:1 108:10 137:4 168:7 169:10 193:20 232:16 236:18 278:18 October 15, 2024 Page 51 making 20:2 50:7 65:1 113:10 119:13 129:2,16 130:16 131:10 131:20 132:4 136:12 138:16 140:19 172:20 202:24 203:5 223:16 241:16 262:11 280:11 299:7,15 300:2 300:24 male 180:7 207:22 man 161:9 170:21 171:25 187:10,22 193:19 198:3 252:13 287:7 290:4 294:23 manacled 179:7 manacles 179:6 manage 218:20 managed 21:6 management 2:15 8:22 20:14 manager 2:18 2:19,20,22 9:6 9:9,12,18 managing 3:14 11:5 206:10 297:21 mandate 204:2 mandated 244:12 manicures 220:20 manner 36:13 199:13 208:10 mantle 211:25 mapped 24:11 march 97:2 210:2 245:17 250:8 263:4 268:5 276:3 277:21 283:9 marched 246:7 247:5,7 marchers 251:6 259:5,9 268:2 269:9 275:17 276:1 280:3 marches 209:25 250:10 251:7,8 266:4 266:17 267:24 marching 117:20 266:7 295:19 297:11 marjorie 11:5 mark 22:24 85:4 136:3 232:3 270:14 marked 206:25 282:6 marketing 81:2 marking 26:6 26:18 61:13 101:5 marks 173:5 marrying 160:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 marshal 249:3 257:25 266:23 267:10,12,18 271:3 276:22 278:2 293:25 marshal's 258:14 293:22 marshals 246:9 246:16 258:9 267:13,20,20 278:24,25 279:1 282:12 martin 79:5 245:11 296:16 mary 3:10 10:22 11:12 164:16,19 181:11,16 205:15 207:14 248:2 301:6 maryland 156:19 massachusetts 11:9 156:21 massive 288:17 match 42:3 73:5 124:7 135:9 matches 84:7 material 50:8 239:14 math 77:8 matter 10:9 20:11 32:5 54:1 55:20 74:5 96:12 128:9 182:14 202:10 235:17 Meeting [matter - men] 240:22 250:4 298:22 301:24 302:3 matters 117:1 277:8 281:14 maturing 27:6 mcnally 2:14 12:21 14:3,4 16:5 mean 43:7 46:10 47:7 73:13 84:3,5 113:6 145:22 146:21 172:22 227:21 229:25 264:20 272:13 273:2 285:16 298:5 meaning 30:9 157:21 162:15 meaningful 66:7 means 119:16 155:6 236:24 meant 214:1 293:17 medal 15:21,22 15:25 210:14 218:17 medallic 1:24 6:11 265:1 medallions 14:24 medals 14:16 14:23 15:2,17 15:17,20 210:16 October 15, 2024 Page 52 media 8:13 medieval 230:1 meet 252:18 268:13 276:13 276:14 meeting 1:5 4:6 5:9,11,14 7:13 7:16 8:11 10:8 11:25 15:5 50:23 54:10 64:6 92:6 115:14 237:7 267:16,17 273:19 282:11 meetings 17:17 121:2 300:13 megan 2:16 8:24 90:5 member 1:17 1:21,23 2:5 5:25 6:6,8,10 6:12,15,18,21 6:24 7:1,4,8,10 7:17 12:4,8 14:13,19 15:3 15:12 19:10,13 32:20 34:13 35:21 37:5 38:1,24 40:20 42:14 45:20 47:23 51:11 52:5,8 53:17 55:12 65:11 68:3,11,18 71:12 72:13 74:8 75:25 77:23 80:21 81:23 90:4 105:7 108:20 111:8 113:25 115:13 117:7 119:6 120:10 122:2 130:8 133:11 134:2,5 134:25 135:14 135:16,21 136:9,17 139:25 140:12 141:4,11,16,19 141:20 142:5,6 142:7,10,24 144:2,12,16 146:8 147:11 147:16 148:10 149:17 150:21 151:1 165:24 166:10,15,17 167:4,16 169:22 172:4 174:1 175:17 177:24 179:15 183:5,8 187:1 201:9 203:18 204:15 217:14 217:21,24 218:2,14 220:1 222:23 224:2 226:7 227:17 229:1 230:10 232:7 237:14 238:4,13 241:12 242:2,7 242:12,16 254:18 257:9 257:22 260:9 262:15,20,21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 262:24,25 265:6,17,22 267:4,9 268:9 268:15 270:19 273:14,24 276:10,18 299:25 300:7 300:11,15 301:9,11 member's 15:23 members 1:16 5:18,22 8:9 16:9 34:8 40:10 55:17 64:1 65:6 72:20 89:4 95:4 96:7 103:13 105:1 126:13 128:2 143:20 145:5 145:19 165:17 167:12 181:9 181:17 193:7 201:8 218:9 262:17 278:9 membership 17:12 memorable 66:7 memories 40:25 men 57:19,24 59:17 87:1 90:23 163:3 168:21 171:19 171:25 173:14 176:25 184:14 Meeting [men - minutes] 186:4 188:10 188:22 195:21 207:5,9 290:24 menna 2:21 9:14,16 54:25 55:2,2 138:4,5 238:21,22 239:1,1,5 267:16 menna's 264:5 mention 176:2 180:12 mentioned 46:21 55:17,23 176:24 193:7 195:17 259:17 283:12 mentor 17:1 merely 66:5 merit 42:18 85:23 264:24 268:17 merits 115:25 mesmerizing 227:7 mess 287:24 message 41:13 43:18 44:3 67:20 71:3 95:16 115:2 124:19 211:23 229:9 251:14 262:3 269:17 291:9 messaging 33:3 64:18 298:9 messy 21:3 October 15, 2024 Page 53 met 82:9 155:25 245:12 254:16 metal 20:5 34:1 metaphor 27:8 36:22 42:11 74:17 75:6 107:20 120:15 121:21 metaphor's 39:10 metaphorically 85:3 metaphors 41:8 49:21 methods 208:22 metrics 84:22 mic 19:9 53:16 242:2,5 michael 2:1,22 6:16 9:17 microphone 16:7 129:8 147:15 middle 47:6 238:16 mighty 247:6 256:16 mike 8:13 37:4 37:6,24 38:6 54:25 55:4 75:24,25 77:21 95:25 113:23 114:1 117:9 134:4,5,18,20 141:2,6 144:1 144:3,13 149:19,22 150:25 151:2 151:25 177:23 177:25,25 179:18 203:17 232:6,8 233:7 242:4,14 262:18 276:9 276:11 278:6 280:2 mile 251:8 milholland 207:14 military 244:19 million 82:5 142:19 245:17 millions 260:16 271:21 mind 33:18 39:3 43:9 45:14 50:5 51:15 66:9 90:15 92:18 112:21 120:9 130:5 133:8 148:13 167:18 176:9 192:5 199:24 216:22 229:14 262:16 272:4,4,18 293:9 mind's 229:10 minds 265:24 mine 234:18 minor 112:4 127:9 133:19 149:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 minorities 208:23 minority 1:25 2:4 6:14,20 183:23,25 mint 1:1 2:13 8:8,19 11:18 14:22 15:7,18 17:1 18:18 19:22 20:9 22:24 23:24 54:24 66:3 95:24 110:21 112:3 116:10 118:12 127:21 141:8 153:2,13 165:2 181:5 213:1 214:11 227:20 231:1 233:13 262:9 271:14 274:2 302:5 mint's 18:20 20:13,16 210:15 minting 23:17 minus 187:17 minute 55:16 78:9 96:7 172:7 202:8 240:19 284:8 284:15 298:21 minutes 4:4 7:14 11:23 12:3 34:9 65:7 65:14 105:3 167:13 218:10 Meeting [mirror - move] mirror 261:16 mirroring 159:11 misconstrued 123:23 misguided 86:6 missed 14:1 misses 232:3 missile 38:12 missiles 46:11 missing 246:13 mississippi 245:6 misspeaking 264:14 misspoken 66:21 mistake 118:2 177:17 mistaken 69:2 287:11 mix 73:5 297:4 mixed 49:21 mixing 93:14 mm 218:1 mobilization 208:8 mod 223:21,23 229:14 model 42:9 263:1,5 modeled 207:7 models 114:15 262:23 moderate 145:11 modern 83:20 87:4,9 107:11 October 15, 2024 Page 54 145:1 147:5,19 148:14,15 245:21 modernization 147:4 modification 141:10 142:2 modifications 112:4 134:1 molding 58:25 moment 66:19 121:3 126:14 132:19 143:22 202:5 210:25 212:23 217:7 221:15 249:10 256:3,4 293:11 300:9 momentarily 56:2 momentous 20:17 159:23 moments 12:23 21:21 129:5 208:8 224:7 250:9 momentum 208:2 244:16 monarchal 97:16 monarchy 57:5 money 245:6 montgomery 245:9 250:10 251:7 269:24 month 189:14 289:2 months 110:10 monument 161:16 monumental 30:16 62:7 moral 159:18 163:2 moran 2:1 6:16 6:18 37:4,5,6 75:24,25,25 113:23,25 114:1 117:9 130:8 134:5,5 141:4,6,19 142:6 144:2,3 151:1,2 166:10 166:15 177:23 177:24,25 203:18 232:6,7 232:8 241:12 242:2,7,12,16 262:20,24 276:9,10,11,18 280:2 299:25 morning 4:25 5:9 13:19 14:5 31:24 32:12 38:1 40:20 56:4 132:22 140:15 147:21 301:20 morning's 128:22 morris 3:8 10:20 44:24 163:14,18 164:1,13 165:9 165:14 187:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 197:3,7,8 205:15,19 mother 246:8 287:4,12 motif 28:17 61:21 69:11 138:12 227:9 motifs 25:17 221:8 motion 12:3,14 51:19 52:2 53:14 114:17 132:24 135:18 135:25 136:1 136:21,24 139:23 141:5 141:22 143:5,7 143:11 149:18 149:21 150:23 159:17 213:24 260:24 261:5 261:16 300:7,9 301:8,9,12,18 motions 50:4,7 50:10 95:3 150:8 motley 256:10 mott 207:3 motto 102:7 146:14 269:20 mottos 114:10 mounted 245:13 move 17:3 22:7 25:7 43:7 50:13 56:18 74:14 130:6 141:6,7 150:5 Meeting [move - national] 152:3 158:15 160:13 193:24 203:15 205:18 241:24 248:6 251:9 283:2 286:4 300:5 moved 12:5 92:4 152:23 225:25 movement 153:20 154:11 155:18 156:12 159:23 161:14 161:25 176:11 192:16,20,21 208:3 209:12 213:14 214:1 214:23 221:20 223:20 224:6 224:14 225:17 236:14 237:1 245:13,21,25 246:21 247:10 247:14,19 250:2,9,25 252:1 260:22 260:23 263:14 271:22 275:9 282:18 283:2 289:16 290:15 297:5,25 movement's 211:9 moves 43:10 movie 254:17 254:20 281:9 moving 26:15 27:20 36:4 October 15, 2024 Page 55 38:9,19 39:1 96:16 114:23 129:24 130:25 131:15,23 137:12 143:23 155:8 160:14 203:4 213:12 219:2 222:10 223:7 241:15 250:11 277:12 281:23 291:16 299:13 muddled 44:3 175:23 multi 23:4 multilateralism 82:21 multiple 84:22 107:6 173:20 226:17 multiplicity 260:24 multitude 234:8,9 multitudes 295:19 murdered 245:4 290:5 murray 188:20 muscle 162:1 museum 3:10 3:13,16 10:22 11:2,7,8,13 164:17 206:9 212:24 215:2 216:8,10 248:3 255:25 289:23 museum's 24:2 26:2 27:16 musical 90:9 29:5,22 30:18 mute 234:24 36:15,19,23 muted 212:9,10 41:5 42:12 212:12 56:19 57:11 myriad 257:23 60:7,16 61:8 mystical 91:4 62:9,18 63:9 73:16 75:8 n 77:2 83:15 n 4:1,1 5:8 91:15 97:14 279:5 98:18 101:17 n.w. 1:13 103:1 108:8 naacp 287:3 155:12 156:9 nail 224:5 157:5,13,19 name 5:19,23 160:13 161:11 8:21 174:6,9 161:19 193:25 178:15 199:3,8 194:25 195:2,5 204:3,16,19 195:8,9 196:21 259:20,25 246:2 248:23 266:13 271:12 251:17,19 272:5 275:4 294:12 296:11 278:21 286:18 nation's 13:20 286:21,22,24 23:23 26:6,18 286:25 290:24 27:23 58:1 291:3,6 295:3 60:2 61:14 295:8,9,12 63:12 73:11 nameless 98:19 99:7 230:17 101:5 102:7 names 214:2 152:17 153:20 215:14 154:4 163:3 nantucket 245:16 250:19 216:11 252:9 narrative national 3:6,10 215:22 3:13 10:15,22 narrows 225:5 11:1,7,13 nation 17:3 15:17 24:2 20:4 21:5,13 54:19 58:4 21:18 24:11,16 59:14 83:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting [national - number] 97:10 153:25 159:4 164:17 176:5 187:11 206:8 207:19 212:24 215:2 216:8,10 225:18 247:8 248:3 nations 59:6 83:12 97:15 nationwide 14:16 natural 40:8 nature 25:14 49:2 61:5 101:1 nba 117:9 near 62:14 245:5 nearly 20:8 necessarily 67:11 123:7 132:23 142:2 298:4,11 necessary 21:22 187:18 188:17 252:5 271:16 need 11:19 77:9 89:15 95:16 118:18 119:10 124:16 132:24 135:8 141:5 148:10 174:21,23 223:2 234:14 271:9 272:3,14 273:10 274:23 October 15, 2024 Page 56 275:4,7 282:3 282:20 293:14 297:24 needed 78:1 121:24 246:15 277:20 289:19 needing 119:10 needless 253:16 needs 50:19 69:21 123:5 128:18 276:21 276:24 negative 47:18 73:9 86:25 124:20 138:8 179:10 276:21 neighborhood 289:15 neither 239:25 302:11 never 13:6 18:12 21:12 190:22 197:25 214:2 232:21 284:22 288:4 288:18 289:7,7 291:1 292:1 nevertheless 21:6 new 26:2,24 36:15,18 44:16 44:17 56:12 57:11 60:2,16 61:8 63:9 69:23 77:2 78:3 84:14 97:5 101:6,12 108:5 161:7 178:22 181:25 197:20 208:1 284:5,11 news 149:12 202:19 newspaper 156:25 nice 36:4,21 48:1 75:11,14 164:23 168:12 170:22 230:24 273:9 nicely 66:22 67:12 68:8 85:22 89:10 110:12 120:6 200:10 nicer 78:16 niche 273:18 nine 131:19,21 131:24 132:1 203:2,6 241:9 241:9,17,20 nineteenth 206:23 208:4,5 208:14 209:12 211:13 232:1 nit 242:19 nobody's 76:22 nominated 16:10,11,18 nonviolent 245:13 nope 151:10 normal 289:9 norman 267:19 278:21 289:17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 north 155:16 nos 194:21 195:16 nose 41:8 93:8 notably 155:22 note 5:14 10:7 25:21 28:5 31:24 76:7 80:12 104:2 142:23 182:7 210:12 275:2 noted 102:16 191:10,19 notes 141:14 207:19 nothing's 222:14 notice 5:14 270:6 noticeable 173:18 noticed 41:17 104:17 122:24 noticing 64:12 noting 291:5 notion 129:4 notwithstand... 117:24 noun 80:16,18 november 208:1 246:6 number 7:20 7:21,22,23,24 10:12,13,19,24 11:10 32:3 34:23,24 35:5 37:8,15,16,22 37:22 39:5 Meeting [number - obverse] 40:23 41:5,19 42:25 43:1,2 43:10,13 45:16 46:8 49:15,20 49:22 56:1,2,7 69:15,25 70:4 70:15 74:20 76:2,7,8,12,15 76:18,23 78:5 78:20 84:5 88:9 93:16 94:23 96:19 114:23,25 115:5 118:25 118:25 119:22 120:2,13 122:9 122:16,24 123:16 124:4 124:13 125:1 126:6,22 135:4 135:9 138:6 139:15 140:14 140:16,23 141:18 147:19 152:6 174:6,12 174:18,18,19 175:11 178:2 179:3,11 187:6 190:3,15,15 191:1,1,3,4,4,4 191:6,6,18 193:6,8,9,15 194:17,18 195:18,20 197:9 198:15 199:7,19,19,24 200:3,5,11,11 201:2 202:23 October 15, 2024 Page 57 206:1 219:1,5 219:9,14,22 220:17 221:7 223:5 231:8 234:3,8,17 235:24 236:8 236:22 237:2 237:16 241:8,8 242:9 263:10 263:11 270:16 278:11,17 279:21,23,24 283:6 286:12 292:25 293:19 295:2,11,14,15 295:16 numerous 170:19 numismatic 1:18 7:11 13:10 14:20 15:16 87:16 270:5 numismatics 2:6 6:25 14:14 18:13 185:12 numismatist 17:4 numismatists 142:21 146:19 nurturing 100:3 nwhm 11:6 o o 4:1 5:8 o'clock 298:21 oak 59:14 60:5 99:23 100:15 100:20 111:24 112:2,3,9 114:24 object 271:12 objections 12:13 oblivion 115:19 obscuring 270:11 observation 203:19 observations 13:9 127:6,20 137:18 197:1 201:5 205:17 234:20 235:13 236:2 237:6 243:14 297:17 observe 81:24 241:8 248:6 obstacles 155:1 obverse 22:9 23:5,15 32:7 36:20 50:1 56:6 58:6,24 59:10,15,19 66:11,11,14,20 66:22 68:6 71:13,17,20,21 72:22 74:11 75:19 76:2,9 77:7 81:20,22 82:2 83:2,23 84:20 85:2 86:3,20,23 87:11,23 88:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 88:7,12 92:22 93:3 94:12,18 96:2,18 98:24 99:15,16,19,25 100:3 103:15 104:8,18 105:10,16,19 105:19 106:12 107:24 108:1,3 109:18 111:9 111:13 113:20 114:2,3,7,8 115:16 116:4 116:16,24,25 117:11 119:22 120:13 121:22 122:9 125:1,3 125:10,13,23 125:24 126:4 126:21,22 127:23 130:14 130:16,18,19 130:19,20,21 130:23 131:16 131:18,19,20 131:21,21 133:2 141:24 144:5 149:22 149:24 150:5,9 150:14 152:4 153:18 154:15 155:3 158:1,16 158:17 159:2 159:24 160:6,9 163:24 166:3 166:18 167:17 167:17,20,24 167:24,24,24 Meeting [obverse - once] 168:1,6 169:19 169:24 172:5 172:11 173:8 174:21 175:22 176:8,12,13,21 178:2,16 179:11,17,23 185:6,9,10,17 185:18,23,24 187:6,19 188:2 189:12 190:22 191:15 194:14 197:10 198:13 199:6,11 200:8 202:3,23,25 203:11 204:4,8 205:24 209:4 209:16,16 210:4,13 214:4 221:24 222:16 222:24 223:11 225:2,7 226:8 227:17,19,24 228:9,14,18,19 229:4 230:13 230:14,25 231:6 232:4,9 232:13 233:8 234:2,5,10 236:14 240:14 241:7 243:20 247:11 248:13 249:6,15,22 258:5 259:24 261:6,7,15,20 264:1,1 265:8 266:9 267:9,10 268:20 269:7 October 15, 2024 Page 58 270:15,20 274:5,25 276:7 276:18 278:10 279:14 281:25 292:25 297:8 298:18 299:6,6 299:22 obverses 33:7 56:12 58:23 59:23 64:18 68:25 69:15 70:24 72:20 78:10 84:25 90:7 93:11 109:6 117:8 120:12 130:14 130:18,22 146:2 151:5 153:12 159:13 170:14 175:20 175:20,25 176:19 185:5 185:17 187:5 199:20 203:20 221:21,21 223:3 226:15 230:13 248:13 268:16 279:18 279:18 obvious 32:4 218:2 obviously 34:22 51:3 140:7 182:21 235:19 239:21 occurred 118:18 ocean 28:17 61:21 october 1:8 5:10 153:2 odm 20:14,18 offer 12:23 127:16 161:12 180:10 offered 205:17 offering 27:7 29:20 192:6 offers 22:16,17 25:21 28:5 89:18 172:12 office 2:15 3:2 8:22 10:3 20:13 oh 19:7 53:18 73:15 148:9 174:25 203:17 212:9,16 235:25 236:1 238:21,24,25 239:19 300:10 okay 14:4,9 34:13 35:6 37:16 46:1 47:12 52:6 70:15 72:13 75:15 81:23 86:3,4 96:15 105:18 111:18 111:23 112:23 113:16 116:25 128:19 129:10 133:24 134:3 135:16,21 136:14,15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 140:12 143:14 147:12,16 151:22 164:12 175:14 177:12 200:5 203:17 206:14 212:15 218:14 219:24 231:10,21 232:20 235:25 236:1 239:19 242:4 248:5,10 253:19 266:6 old 144:21,22 144:23 154:8 180:18 198:10 245:4 246:6 247:12 248:14 249:7,23 255:9 283:20 285:23 288:18 289:11 294:23 older 160:2 176:1 193:19 194:11 oldest 97:9 olive 23:12 62:20 75:5 99:17 ominous 161:22 omitted 174:7 once 18:23 21:3 23:14 32:13 64:24 127:4 135:25 154:8 162:2 181:16 182:22 201:13 203:10 Meeting [once - own] 209:5 253:18 276:13 299:21 one's 122:19 232:19 ones 72:6 78:21 149:2 171:9 199:20 246:24 264:20 266:1 268:22 274:14 297:10 ongoing 31:13 294:5 onward 17:2 open 119:14 129:4 132:23 133:9 251:25 266:24 opening 17:5 opens 256:18 operate 98:24 operation 127:12 operative 77:7 opinion 144:13 opinions 150:4 267:1 opportunity 16:6 77:24 86:4,15,22 104:5 119:19 146:25 165:7 215:21 233:9 233:24 253:11 253:13 254:1 262:9 276:14 276:25 279:12 285:11 289:24 October 15, 2024 Page 59 opposed 113:9 140:6 143:10 192:18,22 213:15 272:19 301:17 opposite 37:6 48:17 53:7 144:13 160:22 oppression 161:24 opt 270:8 optimism 76:25 optimistic 74:16 121:4 option 173:14 173:15 options 84:8 108:4 227:2 oration 156:11 orator 159:10 159:18 oratory 157:15 197:24 orbital 91:3 order 4:3 5:9 11:22 12:15 39:5 45:23 57:18 81:14 90:7,21 91:12 124:17 138:13 258:9 260:17 organism 108:8 organization 164:6 organized 180:22 207:3 orientation 177:11 original 26:13 28:12 61:19 62:23 110:13 originally 64:13 72:23 301:21 orleans 284:11 ornate 28:16 61:21 198:22 ought 48:10 88:4 144:7 151:5 176:1 276:2 ounce 22:25 23:14 outcome 302:17 outer 182:1,2 outish 113:17 outlawed 156:3 outlined 98:21 100:9 159:21 209:22 outreach 10:18 outside 153:9 235:16 284:18 285:7 outstanding 12:21 21:9 226:20 outwards 71:7 overall 36:1 40:22 42:5 45:14 46:9,13 68:24 70:12,19 70:21 71:5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 121:15 122:7 122:15 124:7 187:16 188:7 190:8,14 200:25 220:6 220:25 221:5 222:18,19 259:14 overalls 147:25 overcome 250:12 251:4 258:25 265:10 265:25 266:2 269:16,20 272:19 277:8 294:4,19 overdo 274:24 overhaul 87:15 overhead 29:21 overlap 32:4 48:23 49:4 overlapping 48:24 overpower 264:9 overseas 244:23 overthink 261:21 overturned 244:25 overwhelmed 290:13 overwhelming 34:17 254:6 owes 256:17 own 49:14 57:12 75:8 Meeting [own - patriotism] 92:15 107:23 190:21 278:8 289:5,12 owned 79:2 owner 191:13 p p 5:8 p.m. 5:12 128:5 128:11 202:11 202:12 240:23 240:24 273:18 298:23,24 301:25 pacific 256:13 package 114:7 page 4:2 200:4 280:20 paid 39:23 283:10,13 painted 270:24 278:22 279:5 painting 267:19 278:19 278:20 279:8 279:11 282:14 289:10 pair 68:8 94:17 110:12 115:22 120:1 168:3 170:24 200:10 228:9,10 250:21 paired 115:21 170:23 173:8 210:14 225:2 226:21 234:7 October 15, 2024 Page 60 pairing 72:10 115:16 116:18 125:22 126:21 169:19 pairings 103:19 104:16 115:22 224:23 pairs 88:10,12 89:10,17 103:13 palladium 22:18 pamphlets 155:20 pankhurst 242:25 paper 112:7 174:25 papier 123:4 paradox 155:11 157:20 195:2 parallel 160:9 parchment 30:3 41:11 pardon 234:23 parent 284:17 parents 249:19 283:22 287:4 park 118:23 parks 245:7 part 20:9 46:5 60:9 64:23 73:15 80:13 92:23 94:4,21 122:23 136:22 144:16 164:10 164:24 165:5 187:19 213:5 214:14 216:6 243:5 244:16 244:18 253:8 253:11 260:14 261:4 268:4 269:22 274:15 278:17 282:11 282:13 287:3 289:16,18 296:1 partial 107:24 227:9 228:2 participate 218:23 particular 22:20 53:12 64:3 66:16 75:10,20 76:18 79:23 85:25 93:7 108:5 117:14,25 136:1 163:23 165:11 168:15 190:12,23 222:15 223:2,4 232:14 235:22 237:2 275:16 278:9 285:14 298:4 particularly 20:17 37:16 38:7 54:11,21 66:17 72:5 108:23 111:24 113:19 125:9 168:1 169:13 171:9,11,14 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 186:22 188:17 191:25 193:2 216:6,15 217:2 219:14 224:25 229:17 237:16 260:12 275:10 285:16 parties 302:12 302:15,16 partner 213:1 partnership 219:4 parts 39:1 137:12 party 225:19 pass 178:21 263:2 passage 208:5 245:22 passed 77:8 178:11 229:14 296:18 passes 296:17 passing 76:7 207:21 passion 79:16 90:1 past 16:23 17:7 33:24 139:7 154:20 172:17 189:14 279:5 281:17 path 88:23 107:23 203:13 251:11 paths 82:9 patriotism 274:22 Meeting [paul - peter] paul 8:14 207:15 218:17 218:19 227:21 263:1 peace 62:21 99:17 263:20 pediatric 17:24 pennsylvania 156:1 people 21:6 27:11 30:24 31:3,9 36:9 38:9 39:8 40:5 43:13 44:10,25 45:2 53:13,20 53:24 57:8 62:14 63:15 66:7 67:12 73:24 75:2 79:20 82:8 97:13,18,21 98:5,16 100:1 100:13,18,22 100:25 101:25 102:2,11 103:4 103:8,10 105:25 106:8 106:13,15,21 106:23 107:4 109:2 110:4,11 110:22 111:20 113:13 115:3 118:8,17 120:12 121:19 121:22 122:22 122:25 123:13 124:17 135:24 146:24 147:22 October 15, 2024 Page 61 148:2 149:7 151:14 155:1 155:15 170:9 170:23 171:21 172:11 173:1 173:16,21 174:14,14 177:5 178:21 178:25 180:7 185:20 187:17 188:4 195:22 196:9,21 205:2 214:1 219:17 224:16 225:9 226:15,17 245:17 252:17 260:16,23,24 260:24 264:13 266:7,15 269:5 270:5 271:3,5 271:21 272:22 277:9,14 281:10,22 283:7,8,16 284:9,11,23 285:7,20 286:2 289:25 290:1 290:12,14,18 290:21,25 291:10,17 292:22 295:19 295:23,24 296:5,9,9,11 296:19,24 297:4,13 people's 150:4 296:19 percent 22:25 44:14 229:10 perception 188:3 perched 62:22 perfect 17:3 21:23 24:18 43:3,11 83:13 84:5,6 97:20 100:12 123:12 153:17 223:19 247:21 261:16 261:24 perfectly 88:17 108:7 132:25 performed 17:11 period 126:3 156:6 292:1 permanently 101:21 permission 17:13 permits 185:5 perseverance 154:12 persevering 255:15 persist 106:2 persisted 83:10 person 44:16 115:14 149:4 154:18 204:3 205:2 213:15 256:1,11,12,13 256:13,14 257:18 263:8 266:16 272:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 284:24 291:9 293:5 person's 286:24 291:6 personal 13:3 118:10 157:2 159:4 186:12 210:22 personally 13:25 136:3 213:4 263:25 263:25 personified 58:6 98:24 154:5 personifying 209:8 perspective 22:5 70:13,14 71:6 93:7 108:10 116:11 123:21,24 187:21 220:15 235:5 perspectives 21:14,16 persuade 246:2 persuaded 43:1 109:10 pervasive 249:4 peter 1:14,17 7:9 35:21 37:2 37:5 45:20 71:12 74:2,8 111:8 113:25 120:10 121:24 144:2 146:8 Meeting [peter - please] 151:1 169:22 175:17 177:19 177:24,25 230:10 232:7 268:9 270:19 276:10 278:5 petitions 155:20 pettus 269:21 277:19 phases 225:17 phenomenal 81:5 philadelphia 60:17 93:18 103:6 118:11 philanthropic 248:1 254:21 philippino 15:24 photograph 19:8 185:1 270:23 photographed 197:18 photographs 281:7 photography 197:22 198:17 198:21 phrase 30:24 61:2 87:1 100:24 101:24 106:8,21 121:19 181:12 224:15 244:13 251:4 October 15, 2024 Page 62 phrases 30:7 100:10 238:8,9 phrasing 117:16 180:8 phrygian 77:11 physical 27:24 physician 17:24 pick 32:22,23 72:21 178:25 227:20 picked 288:11 picketing 207:24 picky 242:19 picture 65:16 258:20 270:24 pictured 159:9 pictures 198:21 piece 41:3 88:7 120:3 148:2 217:3 221:14 227:3 285:14 299:25 pieces 20:5 136:20 pillar 90:24 272:16 pillars 59:16 pitch 114:1 pivotal 161:25 208:15 place 26:20 39:11 76:16 89:13 101:6 149:5 153:21 154:4 257:16 273:19 274:11 275:16 277:7 294:3 301:3 302:7 placement 114:10 places 27:20 105:22 placing 248:18 plagues 251:17 planchet 167:19,21,23 172:20 plane 48:2 planning 104:20 planted 139:7 platinum 4:13 7:19 8:6 10:11 22:10,14,17,21 23:1,14,25 24:4,21 31:25 32:5,8,18 33:7 33:12 36:3 46:22 51:17,20 51:25 52:4 55:10,25 74:1 74:3 91:21,22 92:1 94:13 96:10 110:2 112:22 113:21 126:19 128:23 129:4,11 132:17 133:3 133:12 150:4 play 181:1 191:10 272:20 284:17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 played 28:2 please 5:14,22 8:20 12:11 34:8,12 35:20 37:4,25 38:23 40:19 45:19 55:14 65:6 68:2,17 75:24 80:20 88:6 90:3 96:5,22 105:2 108:19 111:7 113:24 117:6 119:5 122:1 128:2 129:6 135:15 138:3 143:7 150:25 152:8 158:14 165:24 167:12 169:21 172:3 173:25 175:2 177:23 183:7 186:25 202:6,17 206:21 210:12 214:20 218:9 218:10 224:1 226:6 227:16 228:25 230:9 232:6 238:24 239:11 240:17 241:3 242:21 253:4 254:11 255:22 257:8 260:8 262:14 267:3 268:8 270:18 273:13 276:9 292:15 298:19 299:3 Meeting [please - portrait] 301:14 pleased 16:1 18:16 216:12 247:24 270:6 299:4 pleasing 121:16 151:15 pleasure 12:16 217:6 254:9 255:24 pleasures 276:11 plessy 244:11 244:25 plurality 82:3 pluribus 23:16 58:11 99:3 102:7 114:13 147:5 155:3 158:2 209:9 222:13 226:25 247:16 262:3 pocket 119:18 215:23 230:6 260:15 poignant 259:2 point 5:12 22:24 31:23 32:15 49:5 54:4,8 58:1,22 75:9 83:19 95:2 98:19 99:7,7 123:1 124:16 127:9 127:15 128:7 129:17 130:18 136:17,19 142:3 150:13 October 15, 2024 Page 63 150:17 190:4 191:22 197:4 203:14 204:15 206:13 212:5 215:2 221:17 226:16 228:12 231:4 236:3 243:11 253:3 281:1 283:19 284:16 287:10 292:11 295:16 300:4 301:7 pointed 93:11 93:24 94:16 111:1 126:13 168:23 267:16 pointing 179:8 pointless 292:11 points 21:1 56:16 77:18 87:12 92:20 94:20 111:19 125:18,21 129:14,16,20 129:20,22,23 129:23,25,25 130:1,15,16,19 130:20,21,21 130:22,24 131:1,2,2,3,4,4 131:5,6,7,7,8,9 131:9,10,12,13 131:13,18,19 131:20,21,22 131:24,25,25 132:1,2,2,3,4,5 132:6,7,7,8,9 151:23 152:17 160:17 179:7 202:24 203:1,1 203:2,2,5 227:13 233:11 241:8,10,10,11 241:16,20 299:7,9,10,10 299:11,12,14 299:15,16,17 299:18,18 poised 59:20 210:8 politely 237:8 political 87:4 95:14 153:25 183:25 184:8 208:8 262:2 politician 85:13 poll 208:21 poor 296:19 pop 275:11 popular 75:17 121:11 146:22 population 93:21 ported 64:14 portfolio 22:8 25:9,12 31:21 34:16 41:18,23 42:16,17 44:2 56:5 64:14 67:13 68:19,21 72:17 80:1 82:7,11 88:5 92:16 95:7 96:10,11,11,17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 101:11 104:24 115:15 117:3 119:8 125:23 125:25 126:19 152:3 163:13 163:24 164:15 164:16 186:9 189:14 192:6 197:6 203:13 203:15 205:11 205:14 206:7 206:12 220:4 221:3 224:10 224:11 233:22 234:5 240:12 241:25 257:1 259:17 260:4 264:18 279:17 279:19 280:10 280:16 301:7 portfolios 13:8 19:5,16 20:7 20:17,21 21:2 21:11,15 22:6 64:21,25 86:21 92:18 122:4 125:15 127:1 137:3 143:24 144:1 147:10 204:1 233:21 243:24 279:15 297:22 portrait 174:5 174:8,16 178:4 187:11,11 239:24 240:1 249:7 274:9,11 Meeting [portraits - presentation] portraits 153:16 167:23 portray 28:9 58:24 61:16 99:16 161:4 175:5 portrayed 240:2 259:14 portraying 71:18,18 pose 187:15 259:19 position 50:2 52:24 216:7 231:18 254:14 positioned 29:9 101:20 positive 35:1 175:10 possibility 85:9 possible 33:13 39:18 68:22 81:19,21 129:14 130:15 137:20 149:25 189:4 241:9 299:7 possibly 93:25 115:16 132:20 189:3,18 post 85:9 posterity 98:1 posture 117:19 159:17 223:9 postures 161:3 potent 210:1 potential 103:22 123:21 139:18 203:13 233:9 potentially 50:16 69:5 70:10 104:7 205:4 221:15 279:14,17 280:7,11 potter 10:17 31:19 54:2 poured 16:12 power 26:7 30:5 58:25 59:4 61:14 85:5 86:14 97:17 98:18 107:21,22 142:14 250:3 252:16 263:17 266:7 276:3 296:20 powerful 27:8 27:15 35:8 60:3,20 88:14 95:15 100:10 107:5 156:22 157:15 159:14 162:23 168:6,8 169:15 172:6 174:6,23 177:16 178:4 179:6 194:2 196:24 197:9 199:9,23 200:6 219:10,12 227:3,12 245:19 250:1 250:25 256:7 October 15, 2024 Page 64 266:1 269:17 274:12 275:14 276:5 279:9,25 280:5,22 282:8 282:12 294:19 295:1 powerfully 61:13 250:16 powerless 279:3 powers 57:24 98:9,14,15 practical 99:9 practice 98:22 180:23 245:7 practiced 155:14 practicing 86:19 praise 226:16 preamble 30:25 57:10 97:12 101:25 precede 261:3 precious 34:1 prefer 36:1,7 88:24 92:8 150:7,23 190:24 230:12 231:6 preferable 67:4 preference 35:17 38:15,19 47:20 49:15 120:13,14 126:22 141:8 141:25 186:13 191:16 234:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 265:7,7 268:5 278:17 279:21 preferences 280:15 292:23 preferred 89:18 180:6 268:1 prejudice 249:20 premium 23:1 preparation 134:13 prepared 136:11 preparing 81:2 211:2 presence 14:1 82:23 293:24 present 1:16 2:13 3:3,21 5:23 6:1,8,12 6:15,18,22 7:1 7:4,8 8:20,23 9:1,4,7,10,13 9:16,19,23 10:1,5 16:1,23 22:11 55:18 56:9 96:8,21 128:16,21 129:6 152:7 154:21 162:22 182:24 191:9 202:15 206:2 241:2 243:24 299:2 presentation 12:17 Meeting [presented - progression] presented 35:11 84:14 86:4 170:1 253:7,18 presenting 12:22 15:8 198:16 presents 154:1 preserve 95:17 president 3:12 11:1 98:6 102:14,20 121:5,6 164:5 206:7 president's 274:10 presidents 153:9,22 185:13 204:22 presiding 1:15 press 8:10 29:17 pressure 19:11 presume 53:15 pretty 35:8 48:4 68:5 136:20 169:15 169:15 198:22 203:21 218:19 219:6 237:23 270:21 271:6 280:19 281:4 283:24 300:18 prevent 45:4 98:11 previewing 25:5 previous 92:5 109:20 117:12 121:1 216:7 279:17 280:9 previously 69:3 176:25 227:22 price 142:16 pride 13:17,18 primaries 208:20 principles 24:11 56:17 57:10 58:14 59:12 60:20 63:9 99:10 100:5 107:15 152:19,21 158:25 160:12 163:3 247:16 252:20 printed 22:23 268:3 prior 65:7 105:3 167:14 204:19 218:11 294:4 prison 218:19 pristine 293:9 privilege 17:6 105:23 privileged 214:13 254:14 284:2 probably 53:3 68:13 77:18 79:19,21 80:17 84:23 111:25 114:21 116:17 October 15, 2024 Page 65 142:18 146:20 225:8 265:11 269:19 271:19 272:23 problem 33:13 178:14 188:10 266:12 276:19 277:21,25 278:1,21 279:23 problematic 177:2 196:2 240:5 problems 40:10 procedure 51:12 proceed 165:15 proceedings 8:7 302:10 process 29:18 69:18,19 76:11 78:8 153:1,17 processes 97:8 proclaim 162:12 proclaimed 57:16 63:7 207:9 proclaiming 155:13 proclaims 31:2 102:2 proclamation 157:11 182:4 194:9 produce 23:24 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 produced 15:18 19:22 24:5 professed 157:25 professional 10:17 13:2 professionally 213:3 professor 11:3 136:10 264:2 profile 158:18 160:7 190:25 248:14 249:23 profiles 170:7 190:24 252:3 profit 197:17 profitable 156:4 profound 28:1 158:19 251:14 program 20:23 22:15,16 32:17 36:5 55:1 63:21 94:2 165:21 213:2,4 214:13 216:7 217:9 218:23 257:3 278:13 program's 23:2 progress 160:3 163:5 169:5 186:12 187:21 196:4 210:3 226:21 275:24 progression 25:17 94:19 125:16,17 Meeting [progression - puts] 126:24 prohibit 239:23 project 253:14 253:25 prominent 236:12 prominently 29:10 63:11 155:4 259:25 promise 159:1 161:20 162:9 163:9 252:11 promises 248:24 promote 97:24 promptly 5:13 proof 4:13 7:19 8:6 10:11 22:10,14,19,21 23:25 24:4,21 31:25 32:5,8 32:18 33:7,12 51:25 52:4 55:10,25 94:13 96:10 110:2 126:19 128:23 129:4,11 132:17 133:3 proofs 133:12 propelled 209:18 properly 274:9 proportioned 220:18 proportions 221:5 October 15, 2024 Page 66 proposal 140:3 proposals 15:15 pros 226:10 prosperity 62:21 protect 85:7 98:7 258:10 protected 31:12 40:2 protection 27:7 27:12 29:11,20 36:22 82:22 99:24 101:22 244:5 278:3 protections 31:9,13 protest 16:14 155:23 211:25 245:13 251:7 protesters 275:20 protestors 246:19 279:7 protests 156:11 225:18,19 proud 213:1 provide 97:23 98:11 211:15 provided 27:12 31:9,14 98:22 provides 60:10 279:12 providing 29:11 98:16 101:22 proviso 134:21 provoking 292:19 public 1:20 2:7 2:8 3:4 4:6,8 5:11,16,20,24 7:3,7,13,16,16 8:10 11:25 12:18 15:9,11 16:2 17:10,19 18:1,19 19:24 20:12 83:17 84:9,12 86:11 89:16 105:4 107:18,18 109:1,24 113:3 119:9,17 121:8 121:11 122:15 126:9 145:1,6 145:20 146:16 146:21 148:16 149:11 153:4,7 156:11 157:7 177:17 184:24 186:22 191:8 226:13 245:8 public's 15:13 published 157:1 puffy 112:1 pull 72:18 81:19 189:15 193:5 272:14 295:15 pulled 42:22 274:17 punches 44:6 purdie 2:8 7:6 7:8 40:18,20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 40:21 68:17,18 68:20 122:2,3 186:25 187:1,2 219:25 220:1 257:8,9,22 301:2 purple 288:6,9 288:13 purpose 97:4 162:18 250:17 purposeful 249:8 pursue 293:6 pursued 207:21 210:20 pursuing 84:13 pursuit 57:22 60:25 154:12 158:22 159:4 244:15 246:2 247:20 push 220:7 296:21 pushing 175:7 187:14 294:13 put 13:8 53:24 69:6 77:25 78:9 98:20 119:10 125:5 133:20 147:25 174:8 219:19 228:17 231:1 232:13 239:6 266:20 272:24 274:2 280:21 291:6 puts 186:14 205:4 Meeting [putting - quite] October 15, 2024 Page 67 putting 34:16 130:7 131:16 111:22 205:1 131:18 143:16 219:13,15 143:18 145:4 224:4 234:23 146:21 150:9 259:19 263:8 151:16 152:5 271:12 272:6 153:18 154:1,7 272:18 155:8 158:8 164:16 165:22 q 167:19,21 quakers 155:22 175:24 176:4 qualified 1:17 176:18 178:8 1:22,24 2:5 6:7 178:20,20,25 6:10,24 7:10 186:8 189:5 14:14 190:23 191:3 qualms 272:6 199:15 202:4 quarter 4:17 202:23 204:2,2 4:21 5:2,5 7:19 205:25 209:15 7:21,22,22,23 217:10,17,22 10:12,13,19,24 221:1 222:3 11:10 25:11,11 225:6 226:1,24 32:9 33:12 232:12 233:15 37:19 39:18 238:15 240:15 56:1,2,7,12,15 243:22 245:16 56:24 58:18 247:11,22 63:22 67:14 257:4 259:13 70:21 72:11 259:14,20 74:18 76:5,24 260:1 261:2,17 79:21 82:2 269:13,13 83:4,16,18,24 270:2,4 277:10 84:4,24 85:21 277:23,25 86:5 87:25 278:3 298:19 91:23 92:17 quarter's 160:9 96:3,11,19,24 quarters 20:21 99:12,16 32:1,6 33:9 101:11 113:15 51:23,24 52:1 115:2 117:14 56:20 74:2,10 120:14 121:20 74:23 77:25 123:18 127:24 81:3 92:18 104:7 112:23 128:23 129:1 132:18 133:15 133:23 150:12 150:13 152:13 152:16,18,20 153:11,12 154:22 213:2 214:13 216:7 227:25 234:7 243:22 260:19 261:21 quasi 70:5 quest 247:19 question 21:18 33:6 64:2 86:16 87:18,22 126:8 142:11 157:5 166:18 181:19 182:10 189:25 192:2,7 192:25 202:1 217:15 239:15 259:19 260:2 277:6 questioned 229:19 questions 31:20 32:16 34:5 50:4,9 55:5 63:21 65:3 81:9,13 95:3 104:23 165:10,17,20 166:2 167:7 201:7 203:14 205:10 217:9 218:4,7 237:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 238:19 240:11 257:2 262:16 289:3,8,21 292:12 quick 238:6 271:7 295:15 quickly 239:13 quiet 49:8 quill 26:5,20,23 28:21 30:3 31:11 38:18 41:21 59:20 61:12 63:13 70:8 76:25 87:21 100:1 101:7,10 103:1 106:25 110:8 138:8 quills 69:2 quincentennial 8:5 63:13 84:9 87:15 quintennial 80:23 81:7 quintessentia... 84:17 quite 39:13 42:3 48:22 49:5,17 50:19 51:12 68:7 73:23 76:21 89:18 110:19 112:1 126:1,17 145:16 173:7 184:19 187:24 213:11 234:16 235:24 254:5 254:15 275:16 Meeting [quorum - really] quorum 7:12 128:14 quote 17:1 87:3 171:20,20 173:12,20 quoted 157:18 quotes 190:13 r r 5:8 302:1 race 244:5 races 298:1 racial 220:11 245:7,14 281:17 racist 246:15 radical 87:16 171:17 rain 41:12 raindrops 38:11,13 46:11 raise 105:11 136:19 138:21 140:19 171:22 raised 51:10 73:25 85:1 112:13 134:4 136:16 141:2 144:11 146:7 147:10 149:16 165:23 192:2 203:16 204:14 217:13,19,23 283:23 raising 100:24 143:8 161:9 rallying 211:21 245:14 October 15, 2024 Page 68 randolph 11:2 rang 62:13 284:21 range 22:17 26:11 ranger 118:23 ranging 208:8 rather 21:13 46:8 47:3 65:23 71:7 73:11 85:5 89:11 92:9,24 94:12 128:5 171:18,19 180:25 201:18 234:1 268:2 287:14 292:5 ratification 99:6 156:14 157:11 184:10 208:3,16 211:13 ratified 97:1 206:24 ratify 97:8 raw 169:15 rays 25:25 35:10 41:25 42:2 47:2,3 61:6 124:8 133:21 136:24 138:7,14,14,15 138:21 140:4,5 140:10,10,21 140:25 142:20 163:8 186:17 189:11 reach 76:21 139:8 215:23 reaches 160:23 210:7 reaching 119:17 react 126:9 reaction 81:1 86:25 91:1 read 145:8 159:7 187:25 231:13 238:15 reads 18:15 231:20 ready 130:11 136:3 204:9 274:8 298:15 reaffirm 24:19 251:20 reaffirmed 56:18 152:22 160:11 248:22 real 12:16 86:22 139:17 185:19 224:10 236:16 267:22 270:25 272:21 295:15 realism 190:7 reality 92:11 160:19 227:5 251:17 293:13 realize 93:22 162:15 180:13 284:20 285:9 290:8 realized 289:17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 realizing 36:10 153:17 really 14:9 17:2 36:13,14 39:6,16,17,17 40:24 42:16,25 44:6 48:8,9,19 49:5 52:18 54:10 66:20 71:22 73:18,19 74:18 76:8,14 76:17,23 77:13 78:12,23 81:5 83:25 87:14 88:11,14 89:12 89:18 90:1 95:8,9 105:13 105:18 106:17 107:13,23 108:9,15 112:2 114:20 115:20 115:20 116:13 127:16 135:16 138:9,11 142:25 143:2 145:16 146:23 147:20 148:1 151:5,21 165:2 165:5 167:19 170:7,25 174:15 175:21 176:23 177:6 179:6 185:11 186:21 193:12 193:13 194:5 194:12,16,18 194:21 195:11 200:10 205:22 Meeting [really - records] 215:13,15,16 219:12 225:5 226:12 227:7 227:23 228:7 228:15,23 229:11 230:24 231:19 233:25 236:7,13 254:1 256:14,18,23 262:10 263:20 265:9 273:7,7 275:2,21 277:4 279:10 280:2 280:18 282:5,7 282:23 285:14 285:17 288:8 288:18,25 289:13,15 290:19 291:18 292:4 294:21 294:22 295:1 297:12 reason 17:14 17:21 37:9 48:11,17 57:13 80:13 82:5 89:3 92:22 94:24 106:9 116:20 175:9 176:14 193:11 204:19 221:24 224:11 256:7 261:4 290:23 291:2,7 reasons 43:12 105:20 115:14 149:23 175:22 176:24 195:16 October 15, 2024 Page 69 257:24 reasserted 152:21 reassertion 247:15 rebelling 155:19 rebut 246:2 recall 267:15 275:14 recalls 74:21 receding 26:17 101:4 receive 51:1 248:17 249:17 received 55:13 64:10 129:13 129:15,15,19 129:20,21,22 129:22,23,24 129:25 130:1 130:14,15,16 130:18,19,20 130:20,21,22 130:23 131:1,1 131:2,3,3,4,5,6 131:6,7,8,8,9 131:10,12,12 131:13,18,19 131:19,21,22 131:24,24,25 132:1,1,2,3,4,6 132:6,7,8,9 134:11 202:23 202:25,25 203:1,2,2,3,3,5 203:6,7,7,7,8,8 203:9,9,9 216:19 241:9 241:10,10,16 241:17,18,18 241:20,20 299:7,9,10,10 299:11,11,14 299:14,16,17 299:17,18,19 299:19 received6 203:8 receives 13:19 recent 88:14 184:25 recently 94:5 receptive 146:17 recess 5:12 300:7 301:8,9 301:19 recesses 273:20 recognition 12:20 153:24 recognizable 40:6 88:13 107:11 178:9 221:19 260:3 recognize 21:11 106:4 148:14 179:20 202:14 241:1 252:23 299:1 recognized 83:11 291:1,12 recognizes 15:11 172:10 recommend 79:16 86:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 139:3 141:6,7 141:23,23 223:21 recommenda... 33:18,19 50:7 50:13,23 51:2 52:3 132:21 133:1,5,7,17 133:25 143:21 150:17 153:13 189:17 238:2 recommenda... 8:4 25:7 32:25 51:1 64:20 65:2 129:3 178:2 300:3 recommended 1:25 2:1,3 6:3 6:14,17,20 141:24 recommending 134:24 reconsiderati... 234:14 reconstruction 194:9 record 6:22 8:18 10:7 34:10 55:21 96:13 105:4 128:10 167:14 202:11 218:11 240:23 298:23 301:25 302:10 recorded 5:15 302:8 records 10:16 Meeting [redesign - replaced] redesign 19:25 87:17 reduce 270:9 redundant 77:9 refer 223:6 242:23 reference 14:24 58:7 98:25 100:2 123:8 172:22 278:18 279:10 referenced 278:20 references 182:11 referencing 201:13 251:6 referring 141:18 refine 24:16 50:16 reflect 22:6 66:4 158:20 163:3 234:9 252:8 reflecting 28:17 61:22 160:18 161:19 211:8 297:7,8 297:9 reflection 94:21 reflective 158:22 reflects 17:8 54:17 October 15, 2024 Page 70 reform 157:14 refused 246:14 regard 90:25 92:2 117:8,11 117:22 179:17 179:24 185:22 200:14 222:24 regarding 153:4 181:20 regardless 244:5 252:8 region 297:1 register 5:14 reinforces 251:1 reintroducing 146:25 reiterate 214:10 216:13 relatability 87:25 relatable 145:1 relate 41:4 related 15:2 32:22 302:11 relates 34:24 87:8 166:3 267:18 relating 15:15 relationship 103:22 104:8 relationships 97:7 relative 85:15 149:3 302:14 relatively 189:6 261:9 relatives 245:5 release 270:2 relentless 158:21 relief 138:25 religion 29:17 religious 118:15 remain 63:8 98:15 249:18 remains 21:20 93:3 remarked 102:18 remarks 136:11 remedied 138:22 remedies 139:19 remember 43:5 72:24,25 130:14 183:16 184:7 220:10 262:25 263:3 270:3 271:18 remembered 237:6 remind 5:18 31:18 34:8 65:5 105:1 143:20 167:11 218:8 233:12 281:11 reminded 218:16 reminder 26:24 101:12 106:25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 123:15 152:25 162:13 249:3 reminding 106:12,19 reminds 93:8 187:10 reminiscent 52:19 77:17 93:12 94:22 125:7 remiss 176:2 remote 55:12 remotely 7:6 8:10 remove 231:21 removed 181:24 209:2 removing 139:4 284:18 renaissance 262:22 rendered 41:6 41:15 42:2 71:4 123:9 211:14 221:4 225:15 231:12 rendering 235:9 rendition 223:1 renowned 14:15 repeat 138:12 repeated 235:4 repeating 94:7 replace 231:25 replaced 30:15 53:20 62:6 191:12 Meeting [replacing - returning] replacing 172:18 199:18 204:22 replicated 236:6 report 299:4 reporter 302:20 represent 31:13 63:1 92:19 93:1 95:11 97:21 126:24 145:21 161:12 182:16 209:6 213:16 213:17,25 290:13 representation 20:3 88:1 92:24 216:15 220:5,22 representations 58:10 154:3 representative 31:4 98:3 102:3 111:2 297:24 representatives 98:4 represented 62:22 82:10 118:3 215:8,13 235:3 representing 1:20 2:7,8 5:24 7:3,6 20:23 26:1,13,21 27:2,11,17 October 15, 2024 Page 71 29:22 59:11 60:6,14 61:8 62:7 94:19 98:5 100:4,8 100:15 101:7 102:9 117:25 152:16 159:21 160:2,23 162:19,25 196:14 210:22 249:12 250:23 represents 30:16 82:3,18 102:24 126:2 145:14 154:10 194:3,4 211:24 259:1 283:8 290:14 291:10 291:16 republic 21:7 30:19 62:10 95:17 198:11 require 126:12 required 60:11 154:25 155:3 246:21 requirement 83:23 requiring 85:6 research 3:7 17:16 238:6 researcher 13:10 14:15 resemble 231:9 reservations 127:2 reserve 86:1 reserved 226:18 reshapes 250:19 resilience 247:14 resist 162:2 resolute 158:17 172:8 resolve 248:16 resonate 79:20 194:21 261:1 281:10 286:15 297:10 resonated 234:25 291:14 291:18 resonates 194:12 262:1,6 294:22 respect 90:12 105:12 148:12 214:15 respected 153:21 respectfully 144:13 respects 20:1 respond 5:22 181:18 214:19 response 214:9 239:2 responses 234:24 responsibilities 106:14 responsibility 105:24 154:16 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 253:8 rest 48:18 76:1 134:15,16 140:8 219:21 292:2 resting 60:13 restrain 287:8 restrained 196:19 restraint 196:21,22 restrooms 271:25 rests 28:16 61:20 result 55:18 244:16 resulted 247:1 results 4:24 96:8 128:8 202:16 241:2 299:2 resume 128:6 resumed 55:21 96:13 128:10 202:11 240:23 298:23 rethought 186:6 retirees 82:14 return 7:25 55:14 96:5 128:5 202:6 240:17 returned 244:20 291:12 returning 128:20 202:9 Meeting [returning - reviewing] 240:19 288:2 reveals 27:6 reverend 245:11 reverse 23:5,10 32:9 33:8 52:22 56:6,15 60:4,5,13,24 61:4 62:4,19 62:23,24 63:4 67:1,2,3,10,19 68:9 69:9 71:16,20 74:4 74:20 75:10,15 75:19 76:17 77:19 78:23 79:17 84:8 88:11 90:7,21 91:14 94:3,11 94:13,23 96:2 96:18 100:7,14 100:19,23 101:1,15,24 102:5,12,24 103:5,9,15 104:8,18 107:25 108:2,4 108:10,13,15 109:25 110:1 110:10,14,18 111:11,12 112:23 113:20 114:23 116:5,8 117:1,23 118:5 120:2,25 121:9 121:10,12,20 121:22 123:10 124:4,19 October 15, 2024 Page 72 125:13 126:5 126:23 127:3 127:23 130:25 131:1,2,2,3,4,5 131:5,6,7,7,8,9 131:9,11,11,12 131:13,23,24 131:25,25 132:1,2,3,3,5,5 132:6,7,8,8 133:2 144:8 149:23,25 150:6,9,14 152:5 155:2 158:5 160:14 160:15,15 161:9,21 162:5 162:16 166:19 168:3,5,14,16 168:17 169:14 169:14,19 170:15,16 173:9 174:19 174:19,22 175:12 176:24 176:25 177:7 177:12,15 179:2,12 185:19 186:13 188:10 190:10 191:17 194:16 194:17 199:21 201:2 202:3 203:4,11 205:25 209:11 210:5,5,17 211:1,6,10,20 217:15 219:8 221:7 223:12 223:12,19 225:11,21,23 225:25 226:22 227:1,2,7,11 227:18 228:8 228:15,19,22 229:11 230:23 231:7,15,20,23 231:24 232:4 232:19 233:6 234:8,16,21 239:17,24 240:14 241:15 241:15,17,17 241:18,19,19 241:20 243:20 247:18 248:6 250:6,21 251:23 252:10 259:8 260:17 260:21 264:22 264:23 265:9 265:23 269:7 269:18,25 270:7,8,16 272:8 277:6 279:25 280:7 295:14 297:9 298:18 299:13 299:14,15,16 299:16,17,18 299:19,19,22 reverses 58:12 60:16,25 61:15 62:11 63:10 64:19 68:24 73:6 74:19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 88:9,10 91:11 93:16 94:9 99:5 100:7 103:20,23 111:23 117:22 120:24 121:9 123:10 124:14 130:25 131:23 151:6 161:1 162:22 173:6 176:23 177:7 179:24 185:25 188:9 190:2,14 203:4,20 220:15,16 226:18 231:7 250:7 251:5 258:22 260:20 264:19,20 265:11 267:23 269:15,17 270:12 275:10 276:7 279:24 280:9 297:20 298:5,10 299:13 review 4:4,11 4:15,19 5:1,3,4 7:17 8:1 11:23 104:24 136:6 143:24 301:6 reviewed 15:22 21:2 22:8 24:23 136:4 153:11 218:15 reviewing 10:10 19:6,16 31:24 51:23 Meeting [reviewing - rockwell] 55:24 56:2 82:6 279:20 300:2 reviews 13:7 revise 25:2 107:3 136:25 revisions 51:3 revisit 205:10 revisited 152:21 revisits 62:24 revitalizes 172:17 revived 221:16 revolt 57:5 revolution 26:3 61:9 171:8 revolutionary 26:7 28:22 57:11 60:1 61:14,25 rework 231:9 ribbon 270:24 rich 23:2 27:25 39:16 richard 3:5 10:14 31:19 54:1 95:5 rid 140:24 right 11:21 12:2,6,14 17:18 19:4,14 31:22 34:7 38:21,24 40:15 43:8,10,25 44:3,7,10,15 48:23 51:8 52:6 53:15 October 15, 2024 Page 73 55:3,6,7 59:3,7 65:4,11 66:1 67:24 71:10 79:10 80:7 82:20 83:2,3 84:4 85:17 92:13 95:25 97:16 103:18 103:25 104:22 104:25 105:7 106:18 108:6 108:20 111:5 117:1,4 119:2 120:17,18 127:4,22 128:12 130:4 132:10,15 134:18 137:14 137:25 139:21 139:24 140:1 141:12,14,21 143:4,6,11 147:8 152:2,11 154:6 158:10 161:11 166:7 167:5,9 168:20 169:17 176:8,9 179:14 180:15 183:8 185:6 189:19 202:13 205:12,24 206:4 207:18 208:2,6 210:18 211:5,22 217:24 218:3,6 218:18 220:7,8 220:13,20 224:2,12,17 228:5 233:7 238:18 239:16 240:11,13 241:22 242:14 243:11,19 253:9 257:6 260:9 263:10 268:7 269:11 275:17 282:13 282:20 286:16 288:22 290:20 296:14 298:14 299:23 300:8 300:17 301:18 rightfully 274:12 rights 5:6 7:24 11:11 24:9 27:5,8,9,11,19 29:14,15,16,25 31:7,10,12,16 35:9 36:20 38:10 39:25 40:1,2 42:2,7 48:24 49:1,25 54:14 56:22 57:8,21,23 59:21 98:8 106:14 152:20 154:7,11 186:8 194:8 200:18 200:20,21 207:1,4,10 208:19,23,25 209:24 212:1 236:10 243:23 244:6,7,15,22 245:15,21,23 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 245:23,25 246:21 247:10 247:14,19,23 249:14 250:2,9 250:25 251:3,5 251:19 252:1,5 252:14 256:19 257:4 259:11 260:22 261:11 261:12 270:11 271:22 272:20 274:22 283:2,9 289:23 290:15 295:21 296:2,9 296:12,13,17 296:21 297:25 298:19 ring 62:14 ringing 62:12 rings 62:24 77:16 rise 186:15 rising 36:18 60:10 61:24 102:21,23 115:5 121:5 138:18 risk 138:17 risked 213:19 ro5 150:3 ro7 150:3 robust 215:24 216:14 rock 40:25 rock's 229:20 rockwell 267:19 278:22 279:2 289:9,17 Meeting [roger - saying] roger 2:17 9:2 role 205:2 276:15 roles 28:2 roll 4:3 roman 85:16 room 18:10 128:14 273:20 283:25 roosevelt 204:23 root 26:21 101:7 roots 60:9 73:10,12 83:21 91:13 108:8 rosa 245:6 rose 229:24 232:15 rosette 211:6 225:24 231:24 233:3 236:22 236:24 238:16 rosettes 238:8 rotating 91:3 rotunda 24:2 roughly 96:7 202:9 240:18 round 48:3 royal 116:10 ruby 3:18,18 3:19 11:11 154:8,10 246:5 246:6,10,12 247:13,25 248:14 249:7 249:10,12,15 249:23 252:23 October 15, 2024 Page 74 254:14,16 255:9,12,15 257:12 259:20 260:12 262:5 263:16 264:11 264:15 266:20 267:20 271:6 271:12,18 274:1,6 276:16 276:21 278:23 279:3,9 295:3 295:9 300:12 ruby's 246:25 249:4 rule 28:18 61:22 63:8 97:18 rules 75:4 ruling 245:1 run 5:12 44:8 230:2 running 116:21 288:22 rushing 284:18 russ 56:9 96:21 152:7 206:1 243:23 russell 2:18 9:5 s s 4:1 5:8 242:24 242:24,25 sacrifice 17:19 255:12 sacrifices 246:22 sad 14:9 292:5 safe 40:12 197:15 safeguard 29:16 safeguarded 27:12 safety 82:21 246:16 249:4 288:12 saint 262:18 salute 214:16 sam 2:5 6:24 19:10 35:19,22 37:3,7 74:7,9 75:22 94:16 120:8,11 121:25 146:7,9 147:9 148:12 175:16,18 177:21 183:13 203:15 230:9 230:11 232:5 238:12,13 268:8,10 270:17 272:22 sam's 77:15 232:22 sanitized 169:11,14 santos 17:23 18:5 sapling 29:20 29:21 41:21 46:7,8 47:6,11 47:15 112:17 112:18 satisfactions 276:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 satisfying 16:17 saunders 1:25 6:13,15 32:20 32:20 45:19,20 45:21 51:11,11 52:5 63:25 64:1,1 71:11 71:12,13 72:13 72:20 111:6,8 111:9 125:1,12 133:11,11 134:2 139:25 139:25 142:10 142:24 149:17 149:17 150:21 169:21,22,23 228:25 229:1,1 237:14,14 270:18,19,20 saw 82:14 90:17 91:15,20 110:2,10 117:12 118:21 122:13 124:10 151:9 172:6 186:4 282:24 283:17 284:9 284:16 285:2,4 285:5 286:16 286:20 289:9 289:17 290:2 saying 12:11 43:13 74:14 80:22 139:16 143:8 147:3 148:19 192:22 230:15 264:3 Meeting [saying - see] 265:24 272:19 293:2,4 301:15 says 39:24,25 40:2 43:2 93:20 110:6 113:13 114:14 168:7,8 169:18 228:11 229:4,5 269:3 272:22 273:9 277:5 scale 252:13 scales 252:11 252:15 scarinci 2:3 6:19,21 19:10 42:13,14 52:8 53:17 77:22,23 115:12,13 167:15,16 227:16,17 262:14,15,21 262:25 265:6 300:7 301:9 scattered 189:3 scene 27:3,14 226:22 279:4 scenes 27:22 226:16 schedule 51:7 128:1,4 scheduled 5:11 5:13 scholars 11:6 206:6 215:3 236:4 school 77:8 154:10 176:7 179:19 183:13 October 15, 2024 Page 75 197:14 201:13 245:2 246:8,10 246:11 248:14 249:2,7 256:4 258:8 267:21 267:21 273:25 284:5,9,15,19 284:20,22 287:4 schoolhouse 40:25 schools 271:25 281:13 schumer 6:22 schwerner 290:4 scope 215:24 score 51:15 55:9,11,15,17 96:2,7 127:23 149:23 150:6 202:3 240:14 240:17 298:16 298:16,17,20 scored 87:11 133:15 scores 55:24 56:1 128:2,8 128:16,21 129:6 132:18 240:20 scoring 4:24 51:13,24 64:12 64:25 129:17 130:17,23 131:10,20 132:5 149:2 150:1 202:16 202:24 203:6 section 236:14 203:10 241:2 296:23 241:16 299:2,6 secure 57:23 299:8,15,21 97:25 scream 123:7 see 14:7,8 screen 193:5 37:21 38:16 scribes 138:21 40:3 42:22 script 211:14 47:24 48:13,25 scripture 33:22 49:3 53:11 scroll 100:1 54:14 66:8 sculptor 58:24 73:8 74:1 sculpture 1:24 76:19 77:14 6:11 88:23 91:15 seated 52:22,23 103:16 111:13 125:7,7 249:16 112:11 115:1 secession 45:4 115:16,25 second 12:7,9 116:23 119:15 16:19 25:3 128:13 134:24 46:1 50:14 144:11 146:7 56:25 66:12 148:18 150:11 91:10 114:24 158:12 164:23 121:12 133:18 165:23 172:15 138:12 139:5 173:3 175:7 140:17,25 185:9 191:23 141:11 166:17 193:12 198:2 177:15 178:1 199:16 203:19 181:22 184:6 212:11 214:11 198:11 228:3 214:14 217:12 229:20 231:23 219:12 221:10 275:6 301:11 223:2 231:12 301:14 231:19 233:8 secondly 150:2 233:23 255:5 seconds 141:13 255:14 261:5 secretary 4:5 261:16 263:2 7:15 11:24 266:13 272:9 15:14 153:1 272:23 273:3,4 secretary's 276:1 278:14 15:21 279:1 280:25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting [see - serve] 281:2,6 282:7 282:8,21,21 285:2,2,2 288:19,19 289:24 295:22 295:22,23 296:16,23 297:2 301:22 seed 60:15 seedling 60:5 60:11 seeds 155:18 seeing 36:18 64:15 67:13 75:12 106:15 116:23 152:14 153:7 167:10 176:12 193:15 195:12 230:21 231:25 269:16 284:11 seeking 145:6 191:8 244:21 seem 41:22 64:4,7 123:3 174:11 220:23 223:17 238:9 seemed 90:24 91:1,14 181:3 285:8 seems 71:19 93:13 126:23 136:19 137:1 137:11 280:19 292:10 seen 21:16 25:22 28:7 29:15 48:20 October 15, 2024 Page 76 66:13 75:17 101:10 170:25 176:3 178:5 179:5 209:20 210:3 248:25 249:1,11 254:25 258:19 264:4 269:12 282:10 283:24 segment 183:21 segregated 296:6 segregation 244:12,21 245:2,8 selected 182:17 292:23 selecting 286:5 selection 51:14 164:10 self 26:19 57:15 60:24 93:20 101:6 157:24 sells 230:4 selma 250:10 251:7 269:23 277:21 semantic 180:17 semi 8:5 63:13 80:23 81:7 84:9 87:15 seminal 215:10 semiquincent... 4:17,21 5:2,5 19:18 23:23 96:16 104:4 152:13,16 261:25 262:11 senate 2:1,3 6:17,20 98:5 send 81:2 227:19 291:9 sending 60:3 95:15 sends 14:10 251:14 seneca 184:12 200:20 207:4 senior 2:16,17 3:1 8:14,25 9:3 10:3 sense 79:3 123:24 125:11 136:5 137:4,13 151:3 195:13 259:1 260:23 261:14 279:10 293:4,11,18 297:3 senses 274:18 sentence 106:16 sentiment 175:19 sentiments 184:14 207:6,8 separate 244:13 separates 98:9 separation 98:16 september 4:6 7:15 11:25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 sequel 43:3,11 53:18 serene 293:10 series 8:6 10:11 23:4,7,19,21 23:25 24:1,10 25:4 30:8 31:25 32:5,8 32:10,22 33:4 34:24 35:1,5,6 35:14 36:2 38:5,14,20 42:21,22,23,24 43:24,25 45:12 45:14 46:20,22 48:12,13,15,18 48:21 49:1 51:6 55:25 74:22 80:23 84:13 86:2 90:8 94:6 112:21 116:10 118:7 121:24 133:13,14,14 133:16,18,23 134:7,7,10 186:1 227:19 227:23 serious 188:1,6 seriously 21:3 78:22 seriousness 122:21 serve 16:15,19 138:9 146:23 154:23 156:23 221:13 Meeting [served - showing] served 13:5 14:13 15:13 44:2 service 3:4 4:8 7:16 12:18,21 15:6,9,11,23 16:3 17:10,19 18:1,19 85:20 serviceable 93:5,17 94:11 124:15 234:15 servicemen's 244:17 serving 12:25 17:4 276:12 session 4:25 5:11,12 102:19 128:22 set 25:6,7,13,14 25:21 26:16 27:1,6,20,20 28:5,8 29:2,14 30:1,1,11,23 31:8 36:1,24 36:25 39:5,15 39:16,21 40:8 40:23 41:5,19 42:25 43:1,2 43:10,13 44:5 44:6 45:15,16 45:22,24,25 46:14 47:19 48:9,14,16 49:16,22 50:8 50:13 52:10,11 64:11 70:23 74:12 101:14 102:6 110:3 October 15, 2024 Page 77 132:18 133:7 133:25 134:21 135:1,2,4,22 136:4,11,21 137:3 138:6 142:1 148:13 186:10 250:22 252:19 sets 105:21 130:2 184:22 setting 102:21 102:23 130:1 265:20 seven 14:19 129:21 130:16 132:7 241:11 several 20:10 180:7 200:21 227:1 267:20 severity 187:24 190:7 shackle 161:22 189:15,19 190:6 195:25 200:17,23 shackled 160:17 shackles 160:23 180:1 189:1 196:14 196:17 shaded 189:24 shading 123:17 124:2 shadow 123:23 211:3 223:13 223:17 shadows 42:1 shape 26:23 101:9 107:23 shaped 249:13 285:19 shaping 28:3 58:25 share 23:5 49:19 50:1,12 62:15 90:22,25 118:10 124:25 125:11 164:14 212:25 234:11 260:14 sharecropping 247:2 shared 162:17 210:20 297:20 shares 125:2 shattered 161:2 shattering 117:2 162:20 shed 290:25 291:10 sheet 64:6 72:10,18 103:12 241:3 299:2 sheets 55:11,15 202:16 240:17 298:20 shelter 27:7 29:21 sherie 11:2 shied 179:25 shield 62:23 75:5,8 99:24 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 shift 30:16 45:1 45:2 62:7 shifted 45:2 shining 77:3 ship 87:14 shook 57:16 shopping 119:13 shore 156:18 short 35:11 48:4 shot 76:17 shoulder 278:2 shouldering 210:8 shoulders 239:23 240:1 251:24 300:18 show 70:20 151:16 170:9 176:1,20,20 179:25 213:11 220:23 236:9 251:5 264:11 270:7 272:24 286:2 290:17 293:13 297:12 297:12 showcases 249:6 showcasing 30:4 showed 268:4 285:4,8,15 showing 120:16 236:17 290:9 Meeting [shown - slight] shown 112:2 210:18 shows 13:11 26:16 29:15 69:18 74:16 76:25 77:3 101:3 176:14 176:16 211:10 294:18 shy 118:19,21 side 45:6 68:22 71:7 73:7 78:9 166:5 189:19 190:25 235:8 236:14 243:8 252:12,13 275:2 276:22 277:3 sidebar 128:17 sided 148:11 sides 56:15 227:6 230:20 232:25 235:4 235:18 236:4 237:21 286:2 290:21 sign 229:23 signed 60:19 103:7 207:5 signer 44:17 significance 93:23 102:24 118:9 249:10 significant 56:14 153:24 208:7 225:20 251:10 262:10 276:15 October 15, 2024 Page 78 signify 12:11 143:7 301:14 signing 65:25 silence 293:16 silent 207:24 silhouette 159:21 209:22 230:16 249:1 277:2 silhouetted 234:4 249:11 268:19 269:10 silhouettes 232:17 250:1 271:9 silver 14:22 15:1,22 22:17 210:15 similar 33:8,11 34:1 35:14 52:23 53:22 59:25 75:15 89:3 94:5 103:21 110:16 123:20 125:23 148:24 150:22 177:9 211:7 230:1 234:5 235:9 270:1 similarities 125:2 similarity 53:2 simple 37:9,11 68:14 119:11 119:23 179:9 198:20,22 199:2 221:17 224:13,16 227:11 258:24 274:12 280:23 281:2 simplest 225:8 simplicity 109:14 269:8 271:8 275:5 simplistic 45:9 140:25 simply 59:9 145:17 150:10 212:5 217:18 221:25 258:7 293:12 simultaneous 138:1 147:13 205:7 206:17 227:14 simultaneously 65:1 143:17 single 21:12 42:18 82:6,16 138:16 206:25 singular 216:16 sir 32:24 sit 254:2,13 site 67:5 176:5 sitting 37:7 52:16,18 situation 117:13 190:7 267:14 six 131:6,6,7,24 132:9 203:8 232:2 sixteen 48:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 size 47:14 70:21 71:2 84:4 87:25 91:24 123:19 145:4 222:3 226:25 259:13 270:10 slave 155:23 157:9 159:15 170:20 172:18 191:14 198:1 slaveholder 172:18 slaver 191:13 slavery 155:12 155:21 156:2,3 156:8,14,22 157:3,12 158:6 160:19,24 161:2 162:21 162:23,25 170:17 171:8 175:4,4 178:12 178:13 180:3 180:21,23 182:22 183:20 183:24 184:3 192:13,13 193:22,22,24 194:1,24,25 195:1,6,9,10 196:15,16,17 196:22 201:20 201:20 296:12 sleep 287:23 slide 115:17 slight 234:3 Meeting [slightly - spectrum] slightly 47:18 136:13 220:23 slogan 170:22 small 20:5 85:20 172:20 183:20 189:6 247:6 256:16 279:3 smaller 91:25 167:22 172:24 smart 18:3 soapbox 89:20 sober 149:11 social 87:4 157:13 159:23 245:15 250:5 society 156:2 156:23 soft 249:8 soil 60:14 100:16 sojourner 207:13 sold 79:5 142:19 210:16 soldier 287:7 287:18,19 288:2,10,15 solicited 153:3 solid 133:17 138:24 solidarity 251:10 sollman 1:23 6:10,12 34:11 34:13,14 68:1 68:3,4,11 119:4,6,7 October 15, 2024 Page 79 134:25 135:3 140:12,13 141:11 142:5,7 147:11,16,17 173:24 174:1,3 218:13,14 265:17,19,22 301:11 solve 225:12 226:3 somber 249:3 somebody 110:25 115:7 276:14 somewhat 86:7 121:14 123:23 220:23 278:16 soon 186:9 sorceress 148:23 sorry 19:8 38:11 47:25 66:21,21 72:9 105:13 128:18 129:14,21 135:12 173:10 174:24 177:7 191:3 205:15 212:21 235:24 264:22 269:7 297:18 sort 39:4,18 40:11 67:15 170:11 175:6 184:4 186:9 190:6 224:4 233:25 sortings 155:20 sorts 289:3 sound 60:3 sounding 59:25 sounds 105:7 129:9 source 60:11 97:13 166:12 166:13 south 208:18 271:23 sovereignty 45:2,3 59:7 97:14,15 109:3 sowed 155:18 space 107:10 120:21 121:17 124:20 138:8 179:10 189:6 221:1 276:21 span 250:10 spare 77:12 spark 20:24 21:25 28:13,20 59:10 61:19,24 66:16,18 68:6 69:25 70:2 71:22 74:13 86:8 speak 16:6 34:11,21 66:10 67:11 69:24 95:11 108:22 110:1,21 121:21 163:23 181:11 197:10 235:17 237:7 242:3 252:25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 253:14 286:12 286:19 292:22 296:5 297:23 speaker 6:3 184:11 speaking 5:19 65:8 105:4 135:3 137:17 138:1 140:13 147:13 167:14 169:24 174:14 183:9 199:13 205:7 206:17 218:12 227:14 239:21 255:5 281:13 283:19 300:15 speaks 67:21 139:18 256:15 265:3 283:4 spear 184:4 special 148:1 specialist 2:16 2:17 3:2 8:25 9:3 10:3 specialists 20:11 specially 1:17 1:21,23 2:5 6:7 6:10,24 7:10 14:13 specific 20:2 154:4 209:8 specifically 88:18 specify 69:7 spectrum 262:2 Meeting [speech - states] speech 29:17 91:17 156:22 157:7 159:14 245:19 speeches 163:7 200:21 speechless 292:3 spend 146:1 spending 146:20 spent 54:12 82:7 235:19 281:12 spirit 162:1 spite 294:12 splattered 279:6 splayed 189:21 spoke 135:6,24 200:19 282:10 282:16 spoken 120:5 181:17 sponsors 232:13 spot 116:14 spotlights 30:24 101:24 spouse 14:25 spouse's 17:13 spray 279:5 spreading 77:18 sprout 46:7 60:11 sprouting 60:6 October 15, 2024 Page 80 spruill 11:6 squiggly 83:25 staff 2:13 8:19 20:16 34:15 95:24 127:21 staffers 110:21 stafford 2:15 8:21,23 20:18 22:11,13 32:24 33:15,23 50:11 50:25 54:5 56:9,11 64:9 72:9,14 81:22 96:20,23 111:2 135:12,15 137:16 152:6,9 158:15 163:20 164:11 165:8 166:11 167:1 181:8 183:1 203:23,25 206:1,3,19,22 217:18,23 218:1 239:4 243:23,25 248:10,12 297:18 stage 50:9 166:22 stairs 162:24 163:1 196:7 stakeholders 10:8 158:12 163:12 181:10 191:23 248:8 stamp 20:5 stamped 236:20 stand 95:16 235:6 255:10 265:12 275:22 275:23 standard 14:23 standing 72:2 78:14 228:21 233:14 standout 67:9 113:17 standpoint 121:18 166:21 177:2 stands 79:11 157:22 194:16 204:9 208:7 229:8 235:5 271:11 293:1 stanton 184:17 207:3 star 36:10 91:2 140:22 stared 247:7 stark 111:17 251:16 starkly 249:20 stars 26:13 27:2,17 28:11 28:14 36:10,13 38:16,17 52:13 61:18 71:4 100:4,8 117:24 118:3 223:16 231:21 270:4,7 272:25 273:3,5 283:11 start 11:20 25:13 58:23 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 68:23 80:22 129:11 130:13 151:7 173:12 183:9 212:8 220:16 234:22 248:12 260:20 265:23 280:21 started 254:18 254:20 starting 90:8 125:18 183:11 299:6 starts 127:11 starved 218:20 state 45:1 182:24 207:17 207:22 220:3 244:12 stated 50:12 91:18 157:6 175:22 stately 198:8 statement 123:11 221:13 256:2 258:25 statements 159:25 states 1:1 2:13 15:18 18:18 23:8,13,23 24:7 29:4 30:25 44:25 53:21 58:18 63:2,3 73:8 74:22 82:8 96:25 97:2,7 97:22 98:5,15 99:12,19 103:2 Meeting [states - struggled] 153:22 155:17 155:24 156:5 158:6,8 161:3 207:1,2,11 209:5,14 211:17 215:17 244:6,19,20,24 247:22 282:3 statesman 153:21 193:14 193:20 static 188:5 statue 82:2,15 82:18 83:5,19 83:22 84:21 85:15 88:11,20 stature 172:19 205:1 stayed 246:10 287:12 steadfast 162:3 209:18 248:15 steely 250:11 steering 86:8 stellar 226:9 step 180:4 208:11 steps 50:18 180:9 189:4 195:23,24 200:15,25 201:1 stevens 1:23 6:9,12 34:11 34:13,14 68:1 68:3,4,11 119:4,6,7 134:25 135:2 October 15, 2024 Page 81 140:12,13 141:11 142:5,7 147:11,16,17 173:24 174:1,3 218:12,14 265:17,19,22 301:11 stick 124:17 134:14 stone 102:6 111:3,3 162:24 210:9 219:9 stones 111:4 stony 85:11 stood 118:16 122:7 194:13 194:15 195:18 195:21 221:22 257:24 275:21 282:16 290:21 stop 67:23 110:23 128:18 201:12 store 126:16 stories 296:6 storm 26:1,16 29:20 61:7 101:3 story 27:22 44:8,9 45:6 53:19 118:10 118:22 121:1 151:14 154:23 195:7 215:4,13 215:18,19 254:17 255:1,4 256:14 260:14 262:6 267:12 268:24 271:3,5 274:16 276:16 287:3 290:3 straightforwa... 37:11 strains 162:1 strange 231:17 231:20 strategies 207:20 strategy 207:21 street 1:13 289:14 strength 49:17 99:23 106:2 158:21 159:18 161:13 162:17 250:14 strengthen 64:18 107:3 stretching 51:15 stride 214:11 249:9 striding 99:20 120:16 strikes 207:25 striking 69:20 108:25 172:9 172:12 221:12 250:13 274:6 stripes 124:8 strive 22:4 157:24 247:20 strived 158:23 striving 123:15 209:17 222:5 252:18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 strong 34:25 49:15 66:24 75:9 84:23 100:14,20,20 119:24 120:3 137:10 153:7 174:20 179:22 191:19,25 232:14 234:12 234:16 277:10 280:4,8 stronger 26:18 84:22 101:5 277:13 strongest 191:2 191:5 strongly 88:4 213:11 237:9 260:21 struck 21:3 22:25 30:13 62:5 66:23 185:15 structural 209:2 structure 181:25 structure's 29:10 101:21 struggle 39:17 161:4 162:2,14 162:14 184:5 213:13 214:5 236:11,15 246:25 251:3 251:18 263:13 struggled 220:5 Meeting [struggling - supported] struggling 38:25 stubbornness 85:12 student 246:13 273:24 294:9 students 81:4 82:14 121:4 145:18 215:8,9 215:9 246:9 274:17 studied 258:2 studies 246:12 study 17:16 42:22 studying 82:12 stunning 43:7 80:23 274:15 style 33:3 83:20 108:1,2 145:24 146:14 147:4 211:6,11 stylistically 84:7 137:24 stylization 230:24 stylized 162:16 187:23 188:5 211:16 subject 10:8 20:11 32:4 40:1 54:1 141:9 142:1 182:14 201:11 235:16 256:7 264:15 288:3 subjects 30:13 30:17,21 39:24 62:5,8 submit 128:2 submitted 24:20 substitution 203:21 subtle 264:8 succeed 39:6 successful 162:20 suffered 264:12 sufficient 225:15 suffrage 5:4 7:23 10:25 56:21 152:20 154:1 206:1,23 207:11,21 208:11,15 209:12,15 210:6,11,15,21 210:24 211:22 213:17 214:12 215:4,13,15,16 216:16,18,23 217:4,11 219:11 221:14 224:14 225:10 225:17,25 227:6 228:18 228:22 231:11 231:15 235:2 235:23,23 236:16,21 237:3,18 238:7 238:8,9 239:6 240:16 242:24 October 15, 2024 Page 82 261:2,17 269:13 suffragette 226:20 227:21 277:3 suffragettes 220:6 234:2 suffragist 154:2 186:5 209:5,17,21 213:19 269:12 279:16 suffragists 207:23 211:8 230:17 231:2 233:16 242:24 280:10 suggest 51:13 51:22 112:3 128:4 133:20 204:16 suggested 132:21 suggesting 27:15 suggestion 40:13 117:15 171:18 225:9 232:22 suggestions 51:3 suit 37:16 suitable 203:20 suited 76:9 sukrita 2:20 9:11 22:11 sullivan 2:16 8:24 9:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 summation 214:9 summer 67:22 sun 25:25 35:10,14,14 36:10,17 41:22 46:25 50:2 60:10 61:6 77:3 102:16,20 102:23,23 115:5 121:5 124:5,6,7,11 133:21 135:7,9 136:25 137:18 138:12,18,22 138:24 140:20 140:25 142:20 159:10 186:17 189:11 sun's 163:8 sunburst 161:6 sunk 217:20 sunlight 26:17 27:15 29:5 101:4,17 suns 133:22 140:21 super 229:25 superfluous 276:23 support 35:13 117:9 134:20 161:13 179:22 228:21 236:8 246:23 274:13 supported 100:16 247:4 Meeting [supporting - talking] supporting 75:7 100:24 170:9 174:14 supportive 17:22 18:4 supposed 187:21 suppressed 290:8 supremacists 245:5 supreme 97:4 244:8,11,24 sure 13:17 39:9 51:12,16 70:20 80:21 91:11 104:16 110:19 112:1 123:17 124:1,9,21 138:2 150:21 165:17 171:6 192:8 194:14 220:19 221:3 231:4 237:5 240:6 264:12 281:9 292:1 298:7 300:17 surface 109:10 surname 188:20 surprise 67:9 148:21 surprised 76:22 151:14 178:24 254:24 254:24 surrounded 61:1 October 15, 2024 Page 83 surrounds 258:14 susan 207:12 215:11 227:22 suspender 166:8 sustain 85:4 sustained 82:25,25 85:6 swapping 186:11 swaying 42:10 sweeps 26:6 61:13 switch 72:15 switching 117:15 sword 97:17 syd 79:5 symbol 18:19 83:13 84:14 88:19 99:21 162:7 171:2 180:2 210:1 237:3 symbolic 27:25 58:9 99:2 171:11 196:20 272:2 282:1 symbolism 25:14 30:2 47:13 61:4 73:9 75:3 76:14,20 77:4 101:1 179:8 199:23 200:23 230:17 symbolize 99:17 175:3 210:19 symbolizes 160:15 247:13 symbolizing 26:5 61:12 100:20 161:7 161:10 162:17 163:9 211:4 250:1 252:4 symbols 88:12 221:9,14 symmetrical 69:10 71:5 221:10 symmetry 223:19 235:15 system 26:24 91:16 98:13 101:12 105:22 156:4 192:14 192:15 systemic 161:24 systems 29:11 101:22 t t 4:1,1 242:24 242:25,25 302:1,1 table 133:9 135:19 141:22 221:4 tableaus 43:19 43:19,20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 tactics 207:24 208:20 tails 185:22 take 13:18 28:24 33:22 55:16 62:3 67:16 87:6 96:6 109:22 140:18 142:23 149:12 172:7 184:17 198:20 202:8 208:11 212:23 214:11 215:17 218:5 240:18 242:7 276:2 281:22 298:21 taken 26:21 101:7 122:25 154:22 166:13 259:11 289:23 291:13 294:3 302:13 takes 59:1 69:19 talk 41:3 72:17 89:22 119:21 149:9 172:8,9 201:18 204:9 235:15 273:21 291:21 talked 13:16 92:5 126:7 172:14 201:14 236:4 237:4 talking 54:12 72:15 73:21 82:7,13 135:22 Meeting [talking - thank] 135:23 146:1 151:7 259:18 295:17 talks 255:3 tall 73:18 tally 240:20 task 20:6 65:13 224:6 300:17 tastes 71:20 tate 3:1,16 10:2 10:5 11:7 216:1,4 234:20 234:21,23 243:13 taught 246:17 290:10 294:10 taxes 208:21 teach 284:24 294:11 teachable 121:3 126:14 teacher 121:2,2 201:14 246:17 288:23 teaching 159:7 team 20:18 153:2 165:2 264:5 teams 117:10 tears 118:23 292:4 teaser 241:6 technical 32:16 63:20 104:22 165:20 166:1 180:14 183:4 217:8,14 257:2 October 15, 2024 Page 84 technique 223:13 technology 11:4 197:21 teleconference 3:21 tell 27:22 44:9 84:23 102:21 118:10 130:10 154:22 166:8 254:23 258:2 265:3 280:14 284:6 285:17 telling 116:17 263:3 tells 196:1 268:23 ten 131:2,18,22 132:1 240:18 298:21 299:18 tend 180:13 226:17 274:14 tended 68:24 tender 22:23 249:25 tens 142:17 tension 95:10 195:1 289:5 tenure 102:13 term 16:16,19 242:22,25 243:9 terms 41:8 46:25 52:24 73:6 90:6 106:10 123:7 123:12,13 144:8 145:23 170:15 178:10 220:20,25 221:22 222:16 224:5 232:11 258:6 264:19 272:8 275:10 terrell 207:14 terrible 218:19 testament 160:1 tests 208:21 text 65:18,21 89:9 109:2 110:4 162:11 219:11 239:5,7 texture 139:1 thank 6:23 8:16 12:10 13:24 16:9,23 17:21 18:3,20 18:22 22:13 31:22 34:4 35:18,21 37:1 37:3,5,24 38:21 40:17 42:12 45:17,18 45:20 47:23 49:11,12 50:21 51:8 54:9,21 54:23 55:6 56:11 63:18 65:11 67:24 68:4,12,15,16 68:18 71:9,11 71:12 74:6,8 75:21,22 77:20 80:21 89:20,23 92:12,13 95:20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 95:21 96:23 104:14,15,21 108:16,17 110:24 111:5,8 113:25 117:5 119:1,3,3,6 120:6,8,10 121:25 122:2 124:22,23 127:17,18 128:12 132:11 134:3,19 135:11 137:14 138:2,4 139:20 139:22 140:17 140:25 141:1 141:12,14,20 141:21 142:7 144:2,10 146:5 146:6 147:8,16 148:6,8 149:14 150:24 151:1 151:25 152:9 163:18,20 164:1,9,11,20 165:4,8,13 166:15 167:4,5 169:20,22 172:1,4 173:22 173:23 174:1 175:2,13,14,17 177:21,24 179:13 181:4 181:19 183:2,3 183:5 186:20 187:1,3 190:18 190:19 192:8 196:25 197:2,7 Meeting [thank - think] 201:4,23,24 202:13,21 204:13 205:6,8 205:14,18,19 205:19,21,23 206:3,11,11 212:3,23 213:6 214:18 215:25 217:5,24 218:3 218:14,15 219:23,24 220:1,2 222:20 222:21 223:24 224:3 226:4,5 226:7 227:15 228:24 230:6,8 230:10 232:5,7 233:8 235:11 235:12 237:11 238:11,18,25 239:10 240:9 240:20 241:4 241:23 242:15 242:18 243:4 243:13,15,16 243:18,25 252:22 253:10 253:12 254:7,7 255:17,19,23 256:19,20,23 256:24 257:9 257:10,10,11 257:13,19,19 257:20 260:6,7 262:12,13 265:13,18,19 267:1,2 268:6 268:8,9,11,14 October 15, 2024 Page 85 270:16,17,19 273:11,12,14 276:7,8,10,16 276:17 278:5,6 291:21,23 292:16,17 297:15,16 298:15 299:24 300:19,20,25 301:5,10,22 thanks 42:14 49:9 109:3 115:11 214:21 227:13 260:11 267:4 268:15 278:6 that'd 52:5 238:16 thematic 64:18 81:16 108:14 145:6 172:21 thematically 23:3 39:9 83:13 85:3 86:10 92:21 275:13 theme 15:14 58:7 88:16,18 98:25 107:7 149:6 173:8 199:22 217:1 221:8 263:18 themes 56:14 56:19 82:10 145:8 153:4 thing 22:5 39:21 52:10 64:4 66:2 69:5 71:15 91:2 108:9,25 112:25 114:9 136:25,25 137:13 138:16 140:24 148:11 169:9 180:12 182:10 192:11 205:1 235:4 238:14 271:14 272:9 275:15 276:5 286:3 295:13 things 39:14 41:14 43:16 46:2,22 65:15 108:22 109:17 113:1 119:12 132:13 142:25 148:24 183:17 195:19,24 221:15 272:17 292:20 293:1 294:21 298:11 think 14:6 34:23,25 35:4 35:8,11 36:1,3 36:21 38:12,25 39:4,6,7,12,15 39:20,22 40:24 41:3,5,7,19 42:5 43:10,17 43:17 44:2 45:5,8,13 46:16,18,24 47:12,20 49:6 49:22 53:5 65:19 66:3,14 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 66:17,22 67:3 67:11,16 68:6 68:8,14,15 69:1,4,7,9,10 69:13,17,24,25 70:1,6,12,13 70:18,22 71:4 71:17 73:19 74:4,15 75:1 75:14 76:2,3,4 76:8,12,23,24 77:23,24 78:2 78:6,10,13,15 78:19,20,23 79:9,19 80:4,8 80:13 81:5,23 82:24 83:2 84:1,20 85:2,8 85:17,19,24 86:5,10,12,16 86:22 87:18 88:3,8,9,25 89:5,14,17 90:13,15 92:3 92:25 93:18 94:6,10,17,24 105:12,17 107:8,16,25 108:12,21 109:6,19 110:11,15 111:10,11,19 112:6,7,7,8,9 113:2,16,18 114:4,11,14 115:24,24 116:2,3,15,16 116:19,22 Meeting [think - thought] 117:13,22,25 118:1 119:9,10 120:1,3,5,15 120:25 121:3 121:10,15,16 121:19,23 122:14 123:2,5 123:9,11,14 125:9,22 126:2 126:19,20 127:9 132:11 132:16,23 133:12 134:4 134:14 135:7,8 136:2 139:13 140:23 144:7 144:14,17 145:1,4,25 146:9,12,15,16 146:18,23,24 147:3,6,17,19 148:3,13 149:1 149:10 150:10 151:3,5,13,20 151:21 152:2 167:19 168:6,9 168:11,18,23 168:24,24 169:12,12,16 169:17 170:5,6 170:11,21 171:21 173:12 173:18 174:7 174:10,15,20 174:22,23 175:3,6,8,20 175:21 176:16 176:17,21,25 October 15, 2024 Page 86 177:13,16 178:10,22,25 179:3,10,20,24 180:24 182:13 183:16 184:16 184:18 185:5,9 185:11,15,18 185:19,25 186:2,2,14,17 186:19 187:7,7 187:9,14,18,22 188:2,11,16,21 189:1,11 190:8 190:11,14 192:10,11,19 193:14,16,20 194:2,2,5,8,11 194:23,24 195:1,2,11,13 196:20,23 198:6 199:19 199:25 200:1,3 200:6,10 201:1 201:21 202:19 203:21 204:25 205:3,12 216:22 218:25 219:11,14,15 220:16,17,18 221:9,12,16 222:5,11,12,17 223:15,22 224:9,21,23 225:1,6,7,13 225:22 226:2,9 226:11,18,23 227:2,25 228:12 229:4 229:12 231:13 231:22 232:3,9 232:13,18,22 233:25 234:15 235:6,19 236:18 237:21 237:23 239:13 240:5 256:3,14 256:17 258:11 258:16,23 259:1,2,10,14 260:10,18,21 260:25 261:12 261:20,24 262:8 263:20 264:4,16,21 265:22 266:3,5 266:6,10 267:11,22,25 268:24 269:4 269:21 270:9 270:13 271:4,5 271:9,15,16,17 272:2,3,5,14 273:9,10 274:3 274:20,23 275:1,3,7 277:5 278:18 279:10 280:5 281:15 282:6 283:6 290:22 290:24 291:5 291:13,20 292:23 293:18 294:6,16,19,21 295:1,3,6,10 295:14,18,21 295:24 296:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 296:22 297:3,7 297:11 298:16 299:5 thinking 94:18 95:13 109:11 116:20 138:6 139:17 145:5 148:16 150:12 193:23 194:6 200:8 220:6,14 221:2 224:25 225:5 235:4 288:23 thinks 140:9 third 25:4 46:5 46:14 47:8 50:15 52:15 134:14 thirteen 26:12 27:2,16 28:11 36:13 thomas 30:13 57:15 62:5 thought 48:9 48:12 59:20 90:11,22 91:4 91:21,22,24 95:19 108:24 110:18 151:10 151:12 171:24 181:13 183:19 194:22 196:1 213:14 217:2 223:14,21 225:14 236:12 253:19 268:3 270:23 284:13 286:21 287:6 Meeting [thought - together] 292:18 thoughtful 292:18 thoughts 18:12 33:22 65:13 136:4 137:21 190:18,21 222:20 261:6 thousands 142:16,17 156:13 209:6 209:23 214:24 214:24 271:21 threat 159:8 188:1 threats 249:3 three 7:22 10:19 15:20,22 20:8,23 24:4,5 24:6 25:1,6 30:1,12,23 31:8 32:22 34:24,24 37:8 37:11,21,22,23 38:17 39:15,22 40:16,23 44:6 47:20 48:9,16 49:15 51:5 54:12 66:21 67:1,3 74:3 78:24 79:15,23 81:12 100:8,9 103:16 117:24 130:3 131:1,4 131:12 142:14 152:12,15 153:12 167:16 182:5 190:23 October 15, 2024 Page 87 208:4 217:5 227:12 229:5 232:12 237:16 251:7 299:11 threes 242:8 threshold 161:17 thrilled 13:14 163:11 253:1 throw 158:11 thrown 279:7 290:5 thumb 231:19 tie 23:3 75:14 129:16 130:2,2 133:13 234:6 280:7 tied 132:4 ties 46:23 120:13 223:19 259:4 till 245:4 time 5:10 6:22 8:1 13:21 17:16 44:8 47:25 50:5 51:6 52:2 53:10 55:1 57:12 69:19 71:3 72:24 77:13 80:25 82:7 87:12 88:18,23 89:21 95:4,7 104:11 105:6 107:13 116:6 118:11 118:13 121:6 123:2 127:7,21 132:21 133:10 135:19 139:17 146:1 149:19 152:14 154:4 171:3 176:11 178:5,10 181:11 186:7,7 186:19 187:12 188:15 193:17 194:3 198:20 201:8,23 205:11 216:20 220:9 224:8 234:13 235:19 238:23 253:6 253:19 254:11 254:15 255:22 258:10,15 259:5 263:21 282:9,24 283:21 284:13 284:21 286:23 289:9 291:14 293:8,14,17 298:11 301:18 301:21 times 21:4 170:18 tion 46:4 tip 184:4 tipping 252:12 tirelessly 158:25 tiring 162:2 today 5:14,17 6:5 7:6 8:20 10:10 12:19 13:15 14:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 15:6 16:1 19:1 19:6,16 21:20 22:8 51:15,17 51:20 66:6 67:8 80:1 83:11 95:16 143:21 145:13 163:12 164:23 194:19 201:6 206:5 212:25 217:7 228:4 229:21 243:15 247:25 253:2 254:9 260:13 263:19 268:12 273:18 284:5 285:25 292:14 301:1,6 today's 5:11 7:13 215:8 toes 84:12 toga 87:20 together 13:4,6 18:9 21:22 23:4 25:19 29:7 31:3 32:12 34:16 65:1 72:18 77:25 95:16 101:19 102:2,8 103:15 110:17 150:12,14 154:22 208:10 234:7 247:3 250:24 252:4 253:20 271:1 281:1,24,25 282:4 283:9 Meeting [together - triumph] 285:21 287:20 290:5,6,10,18 291:16 token 170:18 tokens 170:19 170:19 told 45:6 53:19 146:18 170:4 215:5 284:4 tomatoes 279:6 tomorrow 5:15 7:25 8:3 19:6 19:17 50:8 51:15 64:24 129:3 137:5 143:20 150:8 150:18,20 202:1 205:10 238:1,5 279:20 300:3 301:20 301:23 tomorrow's 5:12 took 97:2 115:19 134:6 194:25 195:4 211:25 214:5 236:9 tool 274:3 275:2 tools 107:16 top 114:12 117:16 138:7 231:16 236:20 239:7 262:3 268:21 topic 216:23 October 15, 2024 Page 88 torch 28:18 69:21 72:3 99:21 107:21 119:24 120:17 120:23 161:10 211:4 223:16 torches 144:23 toss 174:17 totality 115:15 totally 49:3 touched 127:9 touching 266:11 tour 118:13 255:24 toured 118:12 toward 17:3 99:20 100:12 198:14 199:5 199:24 200:12 208:12 232:18 towards 21:23 35:4 38:14 123:11 129:12 157:24 160:3 187:14 193:25 226:12 256:4 300:5 town 52:19 53:2 traces 25:17 tracing 185:1 trade 155:14 155:23 tradition 185:12 traditional 114:19 153:10 190:25 199:17 229:25 traditionalist 111:14 229:16 traditionally 153:23 trailing 200:16 tranquility 97:23 transcribed 302:8 transcript 5:20 302:2,9 transformatio... 25:18 250:5 transformative 30:5 250:18 transforming 159:3 transition 26:18 41:20 101:5 translates 113:18 translation 87:25 transportation 245:8 271:25 trapped 85:10 161:24 trauma 246:24 travel 17:17 traveling 281:12 treasure 18:18 treasures 24:3 treasury 11:24 15:8,14 18:17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 153:1 treated 214:16 271:23 tree 26:20 27:6 41:21 42:9 46:8 47:7,16 52:17,25 59:14 73:10,18 100:15 101:7 111:25 112:2,9 112:14,16 114:24 124:6 137:19 139:2,5 139:6 trees 43:6,6 46:22 49:2 112:4 116:11 123:20 134:13 139:7 treetops 123:22 trek 91:2 trembled 118:15 tremendous 126:12 tremendously 291:24 trend 226:19 232:11 trending 80:2 tribute 250:13 trick 91:2 tricky 144:17 tries 277:22 trip 48:3 triumph 161:25 Meeting [trouble - unalienable] trouble 112:19 troubled 180:16 232:19 troubles 114:9 troublesome 148:5 true 21:19,20 160:24 163:9 285:23 302:10 truly 14:1 57:11 147:21 217:6 252:8 254:8 trunk 139:10 trust 23:18 58:12 99:4 114:11 146:15 158:3 209:10 247:17 269:3 271:13 truth 146:18 207:13 truths 57:14 59:21 60:23 try 34:8 68:21 105:2 132:25 141:13 147:12 212:17 218:9 243:8 260:18 296:13 trying 39:13 43:14,15 51:4 65:13 66:5,5 69:23 85:11 92:19 95:11 109:16 125:15 172:23 175:5 177:18 215:18 October 15, 2024 Page 89 268:18 285:12 286:10 287:8 tubman 94:6 207:13 tucker 3:4 4:9 7:17 12:18 14:13 15:24 16:3,9,11 18:5 35:23 tucker's 15:5 tuesday 1:7 5:10 turmoil 26:2 61:9 turn 13:18 14:2 21:22 77:22 88:20 152:15 211:3 229:22 229:23 253:16 turned 181:12 232:21 turning 122:18 221:11 276:18 tussling 190:5 tweaks 133:19 twelve 36:9 twentieth 216:18 twenty 44:14 151:23 two 5:11 7:21 10:13 15:20 21:19 22:12 27:20 28:5,8 29:3,15 32:1,3 32:6,9 36:1 38:5 39:5 41:3 41:5 43:13 45:24,25 47:4 49:20 54:12 56:2 57:2 68:13 69:2 71:14 72:4,4 73:6,17 76:6 76:15 77:6 78:10,20 88:12 94:9 103:22 110:1 112:23 113:22 120:4 129:23 132:3,6 133:18 139:7 139:23 140:4 141:13 144:1,4 146:10 148:11 149:21,23,24 149:24 151:5 152:18 166:1 166:18 180:19 181:25 200:9 203:10 206:5 214:7 224:21 234:6 239:18 241:21 251:9 278:25,25 290:4 two's 37:15 type 125:8 146:13 147:4 147:22 typeface 148:15,22 types 19:21 typically 15:23 198:6 tyranny 85:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 u u.s. 4:21 7:21 10:13 14:22 15:2 18:17 22:23 24:8,14 24:24 25:11 26:15 27:4 29:8,13 31:6 42:1 89:14 94:22 96:20 97:12,20 98:2 98:8,20 99:1,5 99:14,22 100:5 100:10,16 101:16,19,25 102:9,25 103:6 103:19 104:1,6 112:13 127:25 128:25 143:19 155:25 156:15 165:2 166:20 170:18 173:13 206:24 208:8 209:13,25 233:13 244:3 249:3 278:1 293:25 302:5 ubiquitous 82:16 ultimately 45:3 75:19 120:25 156:20 176:13 177:8 209:2 231:5,8 232:3 unalienable 57:21 Meeting [unanimous - uplifting] unanimous 213:16,18 236:7 unapologetic 172:10 uncertain 106:10 uncirculated 22:19 unclear 62:13 unconstitutio... 245:3 unconventio... 154:18 under 29:24 31:3 63:8 97:20 102:3 159:8 187:25 196:22 208:10 210:16 213:2 215:7,12 244:5 302:9 underestimate 89:15 undermined 244:9 underneath 231:2 underscore 154:15 underscoring 278:10 understand 34:19 37:12,13 41:13 51:17 73:13 81:11 105:9 107:8 109:1 119:20 137:22 145:6 145:21 147:2 170:8 171:10 187:20 190:4 194:19 198:3 232:10 255:8 255:20 261:14 261:18 264:2 266:15 283:18 284:16,23 286:23 289:1 295:5 understandable 120:4 understanding 24:12 111:21 134:19 294:7 understood 69:8 197:19 undertaken 227:4 underutilized 88:14 undeterred 251:10 unenviable 65:13 unexpected 154:15 unflinching 160:20 unfolding 253:9 unfortunately 6:4 168:18 292:7 298:3 unified 20:23 October 15, 2024 Page 90 uniformly 38:3 unifying 37:10 unimaginable 258:11 union 17:3 21:23 24:18 97:20 100:12 123:12 153:17 247:21 unique 48:19 83:19 98:3 137:2 142:18 276:2 united 1:1 2:13 15:18 18:17 23:8,11,13,23 24:7 29:4 30:25 58:17 63:2 73:8 74:22 82:8 96:25 97:22 99:12,18 103:2 153:22 155:17 155:23 156:5 158:6,7 161:3 207:1,2,11 209:5,14 215:17 244:18 244:20,24 247:22 250:17 282:3 uniting 63:2 unity 37:20 250:14 251:2 259:1 285:15 286:2 universal 107:21 218:25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 unknown 247:7 unlimited 98:12 unmuted 236:1 unobstructed 208:16 unresolved 44:13 unseen 211:24 unser 8:13 unshakable 211:9 unum 23:16 58:11 99:4 102:7 114:13 147:5 155:3 158:3 209:10 222:13 227:1 247:17 262:4 unusual 70:14 223:8 unwavering 210:2 251:9 unyielding 158:20 updated 146:12 updates 127:14 upheld 244:12 uphold 57:7 282:21 upholds 161:19 uplift 226:14 252:17 uplifting 84:16 274:23 290:9 Meeting [uprise - variations] uprise 175:4 uprising 175:4 uproar 270:1 upward 17:2 123:25 160:23 210:7 274:6 upwards 28:12 61:19 71:7 189:10 use 16:7 45:9 67:15 74:3 79:21 81:12 87:21 97:11 107:16 113:15 113:21 116:16 120:20 129:8 137:23 138:21 146:4 174:7 178:6 180:9 197:22 201:22 223:15 228:11 243:8 262:23 263:10,10 272:14 used 43:6 59:25 77:1 94:8 102:13 116:23 146:22 171:1 173:16 179:21 201:16 207:23 208:22 263:1 281:8 useful 18:15,16 19:13 35:24 186:23 197:1 258:17 297:17 usefulness 18:23 October 15, 2024 Page 91 uses 107:10 173:11 using 104:11 120:19 145:20 201:14 221:8 263:12 269:20 usually 229:15 utilize 107:9 v v 244:11,25 245:1 253:15 294:2 vacuum 17:11 vague 20:1 validate 182:16 valuable 16:21 142:13 value 33:25 140:2 267:22 values 26:25 28:1 58:4 83:9 101:14 107:15 vamped 73:2 van 1:14,17 5:9 6:2,9,13,16,19 6:23 7:2,5,9,9 8:16,24 9:2,5,8 9:11,14,17,20 9:24 10:2,6 12:6,10,13 18:22 19:14 31:22 33:5,19 34:4 35:19 37:3,24 38:21 40:18 42:13 45:17 47:22 49:11 50:21 51:8,21 52:6 53:25 54:6,23 55:3,6,23 63:18 64:22 67:24 68:16 71:10 74:6 75:22 77:20 80:12 89:23 92:13 95:21 96:15 104:14 108:17 110:24 111:5 113:23 115:11 117:4 119:2 120:8 121:25 124:23 127:18 128:12 128:19 130:4 130:12 131:14 132:10,15 133:24 134:3 134:18 135:20 136:8,15 137:14 138:2 139:21 140:11 141:1,12,21 142:8,22 143:4 143:10,14 144:10 146:6 147:8,14 148:8 149:15 150:7 150:22 151:25 158:14 165:13 167:5 169:20 172:1 173:23 175:14 177:21 179:14 181:4 182:18 183:2,6 186:20 190:19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 192:25 196:25 197:3 201:4,24 202:13,21 203:12,24 204:12 205:8 205:23 206:18 206:21 212:3,9 214:18 216:1 217:5 218:3 219:24 222:21 223:24 226:5 227:15 228:24 230:8 232:5 233:7 235:12 237:11,25 238:11,18,24 239:10,16 240:9,25 241:22 242:4 242:14,17,21 243:6,19 248:9 248:11 252:22 254:8 255:19 256:24 260:7 262:13 265:13 267:2 268:7 270:17 273:12 276:8 278:6 291:22 292:10 297:16 298:14 298:25 299:23 300:1,8,22,25 301:10,13,17 vantage 83:19 variation 25:21 28:6 162:11 variations 53:12 Meeting [varied - want] varied 207:20 varieties 79:3 142:25 variety 210:19 220:24 various 10:9 vary 142:16 vasquez 2:17 9:2,4 vast 236:23 verify 32:21 version 44:21 62:19 84:17 107:11 116:3 138:23 139:11 139:12 146:13 versions 22:19 53:11 72:4 142:15 versus 69:11 70:16 122:6,12 180:17 181:6 189:21 192:3 192:22 205:5 221:9 227:6 242:13 veterans 15:24 244:19 vice 3:12 10:25 206:7 victory 210:24 video 3:21 view 83:19 85:10 160:7 215:3 viewed 104:13 viewer 122:17 155:5 275:16 October 15, 2024 Page 92 276:4 viewers 106:13 views 193:3 vigils 207:25 vigorously 156:8 violence 249:4 251:10 293:15 virgin 70:5 virtual 130:1 virtually 252:24 268:13 visceral 86:24 visible 62:16 226:24 vision 24:16 78:17 210:20 213:20 251:21 visit 82:6 245:5 visual 26:23 65:24 81:16 83:15 101:12 102:1 145:24 172:14 191:11 226:13 227:8 visualize 198:6 visually 85:19 87:13 89:1,19 107:9 116:22 224:9 225:22 275:13 vitriol 246:15 vivid 27:21 vividly 161:4 voice 48:5 49:12 184:8 237:9 240:10 voices 183:24 183:25 volland 3:19 11:12 248:2 254:10,12 255:19 257:11 301:5 volumes 256:15 vote 76:16 80:7 113:20 135:24 136:11 137:11 143:6 150:5 154:6 175:11 207:18 208:2,6 210:18 211:2,5 214:6 216:19 218:18 220:7,8 224:18 226:11 228:7 229:17 232:25 241:13 242:9 266:8 268:21 276:25 voted 32:13 56:25 277:2 votes 114:8 115:4,9 122:8 144:4 209:19 211:7,17,21 213:22 218:21 219:7,13,15,20 222:9 224:15 224:20 225:11 227:6 228:13 228:13,14,18 229:3,23 230:20 231:24 233:5 235:9,10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 235:17 236:3 236:12 237:17 237:21 241:18 270:15 voting 37:22 112:19 135:5 206:25 207:22 208:19,25 209:3,23 212:1 229:22 236:10 240:7 245:23 276:6 w w 22:24 waist 166:5 182:11 wait 16:14 19:7 128:17 150:8 150:19 212:16 walked 256:4 walking 117:18 119:24 122:9 195:22,24 196:7 233:13 233:15,19,22 234:1 249:1 251:6 272:12 278:23 279:4,9 279:16,18 294:8 walks 285:20 wall 279:5 wandered 242:3 want 5:15,18 5:21 10:6 13:24 16:7 Meeting [want - welcome] 18:23 20:15 32:21 45:9 48:6,25 79:22 79:24 80:22 84:19 105:18 109:22 115:2 116:23 129:8 135:22,25 136:6,13 142:25 143:19 146:9 147:24 151:19 164:21 165:1 197:25 214:10,22 216:13 221:4 224:3 231:5 238:22 239:12 253:5,10 257:1 257:15 258:1 259:18 260:10 261:5 262:8 268:10 271:7 277:7 281:22 284:23 286:11 286:19,21 287:15 290:17 300:16,19 301:2,5 wanted 37:1 66:2 72:17 92:6 118:5 134:6 140:5 142:11,12 180:12 198:22 212:23 213:22 213:24,25 236:8 240:6 243:2 289:6 October 15, 2024 Page 93 292:22 297:18 298:7 wants 288:25 war 15:25 60:1 138:18 166:25 184:1 244:2,17 287:2,6 291:12 warning 49:12 warren 2:23 8:9,12,12 9:20 9:23 128:17 129:9 212:12 212:16,19 washington 1:13 83:16 84:15 102:13 160:8 176:4 178:22 191:12 199:19 204:23 245:18 302:7 washington's 102:17 112:24 118:22 121:5 149:5 watch 166:9,10 166:16 180:15 182:11 watching 5:16 8:10 wave 219:17 waves 41:16 waving 250:22 way 36:14 42:2 47:9 48:9,20 52:11 53:18,18 65:16 69:6 74:12,25 76:19 84:11 85:17 87:6 88:24 89:9,19 92:19 107:7 109:2 113:10,10 114:15 125:16 126:25 128:3 129:16 136:13 137:10 138:22 147:15 150:13 152:22 156:20 163:8 168:8 173:4 177:10 188:12 193:8 198:16 222:4 222:13 224:13 224:16 230:16 233:15 240:1 247:8 255:1 258:13 259:4 259:22 268:23 271:1 274:4 279:3 288:5 290:11 291:1 293:22 ways 19:19 67:10 70:3 93:1 94:7 108:25 109:16 126:2 234:12 292:6 we've 13:5 54:11 64:3 66:13 74:11 75:16 77:6 133:4 137:5 213:1 219:9 222:25 227:21 227:22 234:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 264:4 269:12 280:9 wearing 87:20 wears 59:13 99:24 weathered 160:1 weaving 27:24 weekday 273:18 weekend 89:25 weighing 300:18 weight 161:23 210:9 weighty 154:16 252:11 weiman 55:15 weinman 2:25 9:24 10:1 33:17,21 96:6 128:16,21 129:7,10,19 130:5,10,13 131:15 132:13 182:19 202:7 202:15,18,22 239:12,17 240:18 241:1,4 241:13 262:22 298:20 299:1,4 weird 80:5,9 welcome 5:16 8:17 14:5 54:8 64:20 181:5 205:9 212:4 216:2 240:4 253:3 Meeting [welcoming - wore] welcoming 11:16 welfare 97:24 wells 207:13 went 55:21 76:15 91:9 96:13 128:10 180:4 182:10 183:13 198:16 202:11 218:18 240:23 269:25 271:1,24 288:16,21 295:2,10 298:23 301:25 west 22:24 whatsoever 37:12 white 154:10 225:16,19 245:4 246:9,18 249:18 256:11 274:17 284:25 287:19 290:3,4 290:19 293:16 294:10 whites 208:20 wide 208:7 widely 88:13 146:22 wider 140:20 widespread 107:14 wielding 144:24 wife 188:18 william 156:24 246:7 October 15, 2024 Page 94 willing 95:2 150:19 246:17 win 208:5 winding 61:3 windstorm 47:8,17 139:12 winning 13:10 wise 73:3 wish 293:20 withering 41:11 witness 161:25 woefully 215:7 woman 80:3,14 80:17 86:17,25 87:19 90:23 154:6 195:24 200:16,23 209:6 211:1,10 213:11,16,17 213:24 216:17 216:17 218:25 222:18 261:10 284:25 285:3 294:11 woman's 189:8 222:2 women 80:6 147:22 160:9 169:8 184:14 186:5 188:23 207:2,5,9,18 208:2,6,10,13 209:19 210:10 210:18 211:7 211:17,21,24 213:2,22 214:12,24 215:12 216:7 216:18,19 218:18,22 219:4 220:8,11 222:9 223:10 224:15,17,20 225:11 227:6 228:13,13,14 228:19 229:3 229:18,23 230:20 231:25 232:2,15,25 233:5 234:9 235:10,10,18 236:3,13 237:17,21 242:23 243:3 women's 3:13 11:2,7 200:18 200:20,21 206:8 207:4,10 210:15 212:24 215:2,6 216:8 216:23 217:3 225:18 237:18 261:2,17 won 116:12 160:3 wondered 118:8 166:21 180:8 wonderful 41:1 80:24,24 110:3 165:14 204:12 205:12,16 206:20 266:19 269:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 wonderfully 13:7 88:11 121:3 275:1 wondering 81:19 89:6 140:8 189:20 230:25 wood 181:23 word 30:5,13 44:25,25 45:1 45:9 53:20,21 62:5 80:15 90:23 92:10 110:22 156:11 180:25 181:2,3 181:12,14 192:3,9,17 201:11,15,17 201:22 231:11 237:7 270:11 279:5 295:18 wording 177:10 192:7 231:9 237:22 words 19:5,15 31:11 44:7 45:10 46:16,17 117:17 163:22 168:19 180:9 180:19 181:6 186:4,15 195:21 196:3,4 235:17 236:20 257:13 wordy 65:22 89:5 wore 281:3,4 Meeting [work - young] work 13:4 14:11 15:4 16:18,21 17:2 17:7,15 18:9 20:9 39:22 42:17 52:22 78:8 85:7 91:23 94:25 103:15 104:4 112:8 121:17 123:18 124:1 124:21 125:9 125:13 126:20 126:21 137:24 150:14 151:11 151:11 156:13 157:4 158:23 165:3 167:21 175:21 177:4 181:24 189:2,6 189:20 190:15 193:18,21 205:20 206:12 210:6 213:4 216:12 224:23 225:1 227:4 232:25 246:17 247:19 252:14 265:1,4 270:25 277:25 278:3 288:3 294:17 296:10 worked 138:11 156:24 158:25 163:12 206:6 247:3 254:14 worker 148:3 October 15, 2024 Page 95 workers 29:7 101:18 workgroup 145:9 working 36:18 99:9 112:11 114:5 125:19 156:25 187:13 254:18,20 256:11 261:4 works 33:3 40:24 66:16 69:1,4,10,12 69:17 70:2,6 70:13 73:19 76:24 80:9 109:11,15 112:7 120:20 120:22 121:7 121:15,19,23 124:14 125:25 138:7 139:8 147:6 185:11 187:7,15 222:12,14,19 225:23 237:22 259:15 265:2 world 15:25 40:7 60:4 63:7 80:16 83:12 85:9 138:18 244:17 247:9 255:6 257:15 301:3 world's 8:14 97:9 worn 211:8 worry 87:6,24 93:19 178:17 worse 48:3 worth 213:13 214:7 291:5 worthy 198:3,4 268:17 277:24 wreath 78:13 write 87:21 114:2 writer 13:10 writer's 28:15 28:21 61:20,25 writing 65:25 66:25 110:8 113:6,9,12 157:15 writings 197:24 written 14:16 30:5 97:10 156:11 wrong 87:6,7 181:3 265:3 285:22 290:20 wrote 90:16,18 157:1 y y 113:17 yay 122:20 yeah 52:8 53:5 68:11 108:6 137:15 141:4 141:15 144:12 148:10 149:15 150:25,25 173:10 200:5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 201:3 204:15 214:21 217:18 230:24 231:24 235:25 238:24 239:11,20 year 18:6 23:4 23:16 25:6 51:5 58:2 82:6 98:20 154:8 156:2 182:3 245:3,3 246:6 247:12 248:14 249:7,22 253:15,17 255:9 263:2 283:20 285:23 294:9 years 13:5 17:7 19:23 20:8 21:4 24:5,14 28:4 43:5 54:12 56:17 66:8 69:6 80:1 88:21,22 106:3 134:9,17 139:7 142:4 145:14 182:6 184:1 198:10 207:17 208:4 211:12 254:16,25 281:12 288:18 289:11 yep 130:12 yesterday's 215:9 york 208:1 young 26:20 29:22 60:5 Meeting [young - zoom] October 15, 2024 Page 96 62:18 88:1 101:7 119:19 148:1 159:6 170:3 197:20 247:7 248:18 249:15 251:23 255:12 261:10 266:15 274:6 281:10 293:5 293:12 294:11 younger 176:15 187:10 198:25 199:12 youth 159:12 176:7,16 193:16,17 youthful 248:17 249:9 249:23 youtube 5:16 z zero 131:1 203:1,7,7,8 zoom 93:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 1 1 1 UNITED STATES MINT 2 2 + + + + + 3 3 CITIZENS COINAGE ADVISORY COMMITTEE 4 4 + + + + + 5 5 MEETING 6 6 + + + + + 7 7 WEDNESDAY, 8 9 OCTOBER 16, 2024 8 10 11 + + + + + 9 12 13 The Citizens Coinage Advisory 10 14 Committee at 801 9th Street, N.W., Washington, D.C., at 8:30 a.m., Peter van Alfen, Chair, 15 11 presiding. 16 12 CCAC MEMBERS PRESENT: 17 13 PETER VAN ALFEN, the member Specially Qualified 18 19 as a Numismatic Curator and the Chairperson of 14 20 21 ARTHUR BERNSTEIN, Representing the General 15 22 23 Public DR. CHRISTOPHER CAPOZZOLA, the member Specially 16 24 25 the CCAC Qualified in American History JEANNE STEVENS-SOLLMAN, the member Specially 17 Qualified in Sculpture or Medallic Arts www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 2 1 18 2 19 3 20 4 21 5 6 7 8 22 23 24 0002 1 2 9 3 10 4 11 5 12 6 13 7 14 8 15 9 16 10 11 12 17 18 13 14 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JOHN SAUNDERS, Recommended by the House Minority Leader MICHAEL MORAN, Recommended by the Senate Majority Leader DONALD SCARINCI, recommended by the Senate Minority Leader SAM GELBERD, the member Specially Qualified in Numismatics KELLEN HOARD, Representing the General Public* ANNELISA PURDIE, Representing the General Public UNITED STATES MINT STAFF PRESENT: KRISTIE McNALLY, Deputy Director APRIL STAFFORD, Office of Design Management MEGAN SULLIVAN, Senior Design Specialist ROGER VASQUEZ, Senior Design Specialist RUSSELL EVANS, Design Manager BONEZA HANCHOCK, Design Manager SUKRITA BAIJAL, Design Manager JOSEPH MENNA, Chief Engraver MICHAEL COSTELLO, Manager of Design and Engraving JENNIFER WARREN, Director of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs and Liaison to CCAC GREG WEINMAN, Deputy Chief Counsel and Counsel to the CCAC BRENDAN TATE, Senior Government Affairs Specialist, Office of of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs ALSO PRESENT: LEE ANN POTTER, Director of Professional Learning and Outreach Initiatives, Library of Congress* *Present via Video Teleconference 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 3 1 C O N T E N T S 2 Call to Order and Roll Call. . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 Review and Discussion of Candidate Designs for the 2026 Semiquincentennial Dime . . . . . . 9 4 Review and Discussion of Candidate Designs 5 for the 2026 Semiquincentennial Half Dollar . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10 6 Discussion of the Results from Scoring for 7 8 Dime and Half Dollar . . . . . . . . . . . . . .14 Discussion and Finalizing Recommendations for the Semiquincentennial Circulating 9 10 Coins and 2026-2028 Platinum Proof Coin. . . . .72 Continuation of Discussion and Finalizing Recommendations for the Semiquincentennial 11 Circulating Coins and 2026-2028 Platinum Proof Coin 12 Adjourn 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 4 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 3 8:30 a.m. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Good morning. I 4 call the CCAC back into session for Wednesday, 5 October 16, 2024, and the time is 8:30. 6 This is the second day of a two day 7 public meeting. 8 run until approximately 3:15 p.m. 9 10 Today's session is scheduled to I would like to welcome the public watching live on YouTube. 11 Finally, I want to remind members to 12 announce your name when you are speaking for the 13 transcript and for the public listening. 14 Before we begin, I want to introduce 15 the members of the committee, so please respond 16 present when I call your name. 17 Arthur Bernstein. 18 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: 19 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 20 Present. Thank you very much. And you are representing the general public. 21 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: 22 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: I am. Yes. Dr. Harcourt 23 Fuller, recommended by the Speaker of the House, 24 is not with us today. 25 Dr. Christopher Capozzola, who is a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 5 1 member who is specially qualified in American 2 history. 3 MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: Present. 4 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 5 Thank you very much, Chris. 6 Jeanne Stevens-Sollman, the member 7 specially qualified in sculpture or medallic 8 arts. 9 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: 10 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Present. Thank you. John 11 Saunders, recommended by the House minority 12 leader. 13 He is not yet with us. Michael Moran, recommended by the 14 Senate majority leader, who will be with us in a 15 while. 16 17 Donald Scarinci, recommended by the Senate minority leader. 18 MEMBER SCARINCI: Chuck Schumer. 19 my Peter van Alfen radio announcement voice, 20 present. 21 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 22 you very much. 23 qualified in numismatics. There we go. With Thank Sam Gelberd, the member specially 24 MEMBER GELBERD: 25 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Present. Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Kellen Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 6 1 Hoard, representing the general public. 2 MEMBER HOARD: 3 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 4 Annelisa Purdie, representing the general public. 7 MEMBER PURDIE: 8 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 9 And Kellen is joining us remotely. 5 6 Present. Present. Wonderful. And I am Peter van Alfen, the member specially qualified 10 as a numismatic curator and currently the 11 chairperson of the CCAC. 12 quorum. 13 And I believe we have a So today's agenda for the public 14 meeting includes the review and discussion of 15 candidate designs for the 2026 dime, for the 2026 16 half dollar, and discussion and identification of 17 recommendations for the 2026 semiquincentennial 18 coins. 19 series yesterday and made a recommendation then. 20 So we won't be doing that today. 21 And we already dealt with the platinum Before we begin our proceedings, I 22 will ask the Mint liaison to the CCAC, Ms. 23 Jennifer Warren, if we are aware of any members 24 of the press who are remotely watching this 25 public meeting. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 7 1 MS. WARREN: This is Jennifer Warren. 2 Mike Unser, founder and editor of CoinNews Media 3 Group and Paul Gilkes, Coin World senior editor. 4 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Gentlemen, welcome 5 both. 6 confirm that the following Mint staff are in the 7 attendance today. 8 after I have called your name. 9 10 For the record, I would also like to So please indicate present April Stafford, chief, Office of Design Management. 11 MS. STAFFORD: Present. 12 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 13 senior design specialist. 14 MS. SULLIVAN: 15 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 16 Present. MR. VASQUEZ: 18 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Present. MR. EVANS: 21 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Present. Boneza Hanchock, design manager. 23 MS. HANCHOCK: 24 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 25 Russell Evans, design manager. 20 22 Roger Vasquez, senior design specialist. 17 19 Megan Sullivan, Present. Sukrita Baijal, design manager. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 8 1 MS. BAIJAL: 2 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 3 Present. engraver. 4 MR. MENNA: 5 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 6 Present. MR. COSTELLO: 8 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 10 Present. Jennifer Warren, director of legislative and intergovernmental affairs and liaison to the CCAC. 11 MS. WARREN: 12 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 13 Michael Costello, manager of design and engraving. 7 9 Joseph Menna, chief Present. Greg Weinman, deputy chief counsel and counsel to the CCAC. 14 MR. WEINMAN: Present. 15 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: And Brendan Tate, 16 senior government affairs specialist, Office of 17 Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs. 18 not with us at the moment. 19 He is And finally, I want to note for the 20 record that we will be joined later in the 21 meeting by stakeholders and subject matter 22 experts for the various programs we are reviewing 23 today. 24 25 For the 2026 dime and 2026 half dollar, the following may join us: www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Richard Hunt, Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 9 1 director of the Center for Legislative Archives 2 at the National Archives and Records 3 Administration; and Lee Ann Potter, director of 4 professional learning and outreach initiatives, 5 Library of Congress. 6 If you are joining us today, thank 7 you, and we look forward to hearing your 8 preferences and thoughts on these portfolios. 9 I would like to begin with the Mint. 10 Are there any other issues that need to be 11 addressed before we start? 12 let's get started. 13 All right. Then Our first portfolio to be reviewed 14 today is to consider the obverse and reverse 15 design candidates for the 2026 dime, which April 16 Stafford and Boneza Hanchock will now present. 17 So all yours. 18 19 20 MS. STAFFORD: morning. Thank you. Good A little history of the dime's design. The current dime, frequently referred 21 to as the Roosevelt dime, was first issued in 22 1946 soon after the death of President Franklin 23 D. Roosevelt. 24 dime, since its first issuance in 1796, featured 25 images of Liberty with a Liberty cap or having All previous iterations of the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 10 1 flowing hair adorned with a ribbon. 2 after an absence of 80 years, the dime will again 3 feature a traditional depiction of Liberty on its 4 obverse. 5 In 2026, The 2026 dime's theme is Liberty Over 6 Tyranny and explores our revolutionary era that 7 set the stage for the next 250 years of American 8 history. 9 the dime will bookend the five semiquincentennial In combination with the half dollar, 10 quarter dollars by making further connections to 11 the aspirations and ideals expressed in America's 12 founding. 13 Obverse designs depict liberty 14 personified, echoing early American coinage where 15 Liberty replaced the monarch on currency, a 16 symbolic choice to reflect our new nation. 17 To amplify the coin's theme, the 18 inscription, LIBERTY, features prominently on the 19 obverse. 20 WE TRUST, and a date range shared by all 21 semiquincentennial circulating coins, 1776 22 through 2026. 23 Additional inscriptions include, IN GOD Reverse designs are emblematic of the 24 spirit that embodied America's bold quest for 25 liberty. Inscriptions include, UNITED STATES OF www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 11 1 AMERICA, E PLURIBUS UNUM, and ONE DIME. 2 3 4 So we will start with the obverse designs. Obverses 1 and 1A depict Liberty in a 5 style inspired by early American coinage. 6 Design 1 seen here, Liberty wears a coronet 7 bearing the inscription, 250 YEARS, to mark the 8 nation's semiquincentennial. 9 features Liberty with laurel in her hair, 10 11 In 1A seen here representing victory over tyranny. Obverses 2 and 2A feature Liberty 12 leaning forward with an intensity and purpose in 13 her battle against tyranny. 14 hair is a nod to the decorative ribbons on 15 revolutionary era tricorn hats, while the elm 16 leaves and seed pods reference the Liberty Tree 17 in colonial Boston. 18 The adornment in her Obverses 3, 3A and 3B feature a 19 determined Liberty as the winds of revolution 20 waft through her hair. 21 she faces the tyranny of the British monarchy. With steadfast resolve, 22 In Obverse 3, seen here, her liberty 23 cap bears stars and stripes, at once a symbol of 24 our burgeoning nation and a reference to early 25 American coinage. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 12 1 In 3A, seen here, a crown of laurels 2 symbolizes victory while 3B combines the liberty 3 cap and the laurel. 4 Obverses 4 and 4A portray Liberty 5 engaging the viewer, hands extended forward as if 6 requesting consideration of the inscription, 7 LIBERTY. 8 9 In 4A, seen here, the addition of the billowing fabric of Liberty's dress is a nod to 10 the dynamism of the revolution and America's 11 momentous shift from monarchy to democratic 12 republic. 13 Obverse's 5 and 5A feature a profile 14 of Liberty, whose flowing hair is a callback to 15 early American coinage. 16 around her head. 17 Stars and laurel arc Obverse's 6 and 6A depict Liberty 18 facing a rising sun, representing our new nation. 19 And moving on to the reverse designs. 20 Reverses 1 and 1A depict Liberty's torch of 21 enlightenment lighting the way to freedom from 22 tyrannical rule. 23 spark that ignited the colonists' quest for 24 liberty. 25 The inner flame represents the In Design 1 we have 13 stars featured www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 13 1 that represent the original colonies. 2 1 and 1A without the stars. So there's 3 Reverses 2 and 2A depict an American 4 eagle in flight, its wings beating powerfully as 5 it grasps a banner. 6 stretch forward, symbolic of our determination 7 for sovereignty. 8 9 The eagle's head and wings In Reverse 2, seen here, the eagle holds a banner commemorating the 10 semiquincentennial with the inscription, 250 11 YEARS. In 2A, the banner reads, ONE DIME. 12 Reverses 3 and 3A portray an eagle in 13 flight carrying arrows in its talons, 14 representing of the American Revolution and the 15 colonists' fight for independence. Reverse 3A 16 features the inscription, LIBERTY OVER TYRANNY. 17 Reverse 4 and 4A depict the hand of 18 Liberty raising her torch formed from the 19 inscription, E PLURIBUS UNUM, symbolizing the 20 creation of a single new nation from the 13 21 colonies. 22 Reverse 4, seen here, the torch burns 23 through the bonds of tyranny while in 4A we have 24 featured 13 stars representing the original 25 colonies. And that concludes the candidate www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 14 1 designs. 2 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Wonderful. Thank 3 you very much. 4 questions from the committee about this program 5 or the designs for the 2026 dime before we begin 6 our discussion? 7 Are there any technical or legal All right. Then let's begin our 8 consideration. And I would like to remind 9 members to please try to keep your comments to 10 five minutes or less and to identify yourself 11 prior to speaking. 12 13 Let's begin with Kellen Hoard, if you would please. 14 MEMBER HOARD: Thank you very much. 15 This is Kellen Hoard. 16 for me is the absolute standout as it was last 17 time. 18 For the dime, Obverse 1 It is really a remarkable design. And harkening back to kind of the 19 three part test I asked before of visual 20 continuity, thematic clarity and of artistic fit, 21 this one meets all three of those. 22 We see this clear visual continuity 23 with the Roosevelt dime, which is a modern coin 24 the public understands, but also lays historic, 25 you know, coronet head types that are popular www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 15 1 with collectors. 2 It looks like a dime that people are 3 familiar with, but it updates these concepts. 4 updates these designs through a more modern take 5 that's really exciting and therefore quite usable 6 and, I think, likable among the public. 7 It And it has this thematic clarity, you 8 know, this explicit but cohesive expression of 9 anniversary whose depiction of Liberty is at once 10 graceful and competent and capable. 11 Actually, we had some discussion last 12 time about the headpiece. 13 quite tastefully done and explicitly done in kind 14 of the right way where it's not over the top but 15 it does indicate why this coin exists, and it's a 16 one year type. 17 I think that's really And it has an artistic fit that 18 understands this 18 millimeter diameter of a dime 19 with clear and undemanding design elements which 20 still evoke aesthetic pleasure. 21 far and away the one that made the most sense for 22 me. 23 So this one was All the other obverses fail one of 24 those three rules. They are either too visually 25 unusual or too thematically obscure, too complex www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 16 1 design-wise for the dime, one I think the public 2 wouldn't necessarily like or understand or use 3 it. 4 For the reverses, Reverse 1 and 1A, 5 were really, I think, also the strongest here. 6 Again, with this visual continuity with the 7 Roosevelt dime, which I think is good, but again, 8 updated, which I think is what we have been 9 looking for, this updated sense of, you know, 10 we're 250 years of doing this. 11 flame keeps on going, but what does it look like 12 in the modern day? 13 This eternal It has this thematic clarity. You 14 know, it is highlighting liberty over tyranny. 15 continued path forward to preserve that freedom. 16 But it also allows the public to assign their own 17 thematic interpretations there, which I think is 18 actually important for the art that we are 19 pursuing. 20 that is simple and concise enough to be on the 21 dime in my view against all the other reverses. 22 So to me, 1 and 1, it made a lot of And then it is the only reverse design 23 sense, and I am excited to see this piece. 24 you. 25 A CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank All right, Kellen. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 17 1 Thank you very much. 2 you would, please. 3 4 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Mr. Chairman. 5 6 Jeanne Stevens-Sollman, if Thank you, This is Jeanne Stevens-Sollman. And thank you, Kellen. You were very explanatory in your comments. 7 I will speak to 1A on the Liberty 8 dime. I chose this one because she represents 9 every woman. It is not any one particular ethnic 10 group. So I think this would be an appropriate 11 portrait on our dime. 12 Also, I did like the laurel around her 13 head as opposed to the cornet because we already 14 say the dates below. 15 to say 250 years. 16 lovely, but I don't think they would fit this 17 purpose. 18 And I think it is redundant As for the rest, they are very And on the reverse, I am going to go 19 back to the eagle. I do think that it is very 20 appropriate. 21 But I like 3A because it says liberty over 22 tyranny. I think the torch is also good. 23 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 24 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 25 Thank you very much. Sam Gelberd. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 18 1 MEMBER GELBERD: Thank you, Peter. 2 this is Sam Gelberd. 3 we have already heard from Kellen and Jeanne. 4 Obverse 1 I think is going to be the best one to 5 go with, 1 or 1A. 6 I agree very much with what I was really torn. I like the laurel wreath. The 7 coronet, I could accept the cornet in 1 if we 8 remove the 250 years. 9 yesterday we don't really need the math lesson on Again, I mentioned 10 there. 11 right there. 12 the purpose well enough. 13 It's nice, but we've got the dual date I think that functions -- it serves The other obverses, I felt really kind 14 of missed the mark so I won't get into that too 15 much. 16 With the other reverses, I actually 17 prefer Reverse 1 to 1A. 18 stars, just the overall layout. 19 fills the space very, very well. 20 negative space. 21 I really do like the I just think it Great use of 1A, the torch, the flame is just a 22 little bit too big on that small of a coin. 23 That's also the reason why I did not choose any 24 of the reverses with an eagle. 25 If we went with Reverses 4 or 4A, I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 19 1 probably would be okay with 4A, but honestly, 2 still prefer Reverse 1 overall. 3 So my votes will be going to Obverse 4 1A if we keep it with the laurel wreath. 5 go with Obverse 1 if we got rid of the years, if 6 it didn't say 250 years in the coronet. 7 Reverse 1 would be best to go with. 8 9 10 11 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: thank you very much. I would And Thank you. All right. Sam, Art Bernstein, if you would, please. MEMBER BERNSTEIN: Good morning. This 12 is Art Bernstein. 13 and say that my preference is with the 3 series 14 on the obverse. 15 I am going to buck the trend I appreciated her resolute look. And 16 I like the use of the headdress, either the cap - 17 - with the combination cap and laurel. 18 they were all attractive, and my preference was 19 for the 3 series. 20 I thought With regard to the reverses, I liked 21 the eagle design in numbers 3 and 3A. 22 wanted to point out with the ribbon on 3A -- I'm 23 sorry, I meant, the design Series 2. 24 25 But I I misspoke. On the 2A ribbon, when you look at the ribbon, the upper part of the ribbon reads 1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 20 1 dime, and the lower part to me looks like it is 2 missing words. 3 earlier version, Design 2, has the shorter 4 ribbon. 5 would go with the shorter ribbon that just says 6 one dime and not the blank portion. It is just blank. And the So if we were to go with that reverse, I 7 I did not like Reverses 1 and 1A. To 8 me, that just looked more like the Olympics. 9 That torch doesn't look to me like the Statue of 10 Liberty torch that we are used to seeing. 11 me it just cried out LA Olympics. 12 13 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you. All right, Art. Thank you very much. 14 15 And to Dr. Christopher Capozzola, if you would, please. 16 MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: All right. 17 morning. 18 share an almost emerging consensus in the room so 19 I will keep my comments brief, but maybe try to 20 address where this might fit in the rest of the 21 2026 series because it's worth thinking about 22 that as well. 23 This is Chris Capozzola. Good I think I So I share, you know, my top choice on 24 the obverse is 1A, Obverse 1A. 25 Obverse 1. I also like And I think actually, although I have www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 21 1 in other times been advocating in putting the 2 number 250 on there, I think putting 250 on the 3 same side as the dates is maybe a little bit of 4 overkill. 5 choice. 6 So I think 01A is maybe the better Just as an aside, the Liberties in 7 Obverses 2, 3 and 6 are fantastic. 8 many opportunities to depict Liberty. 9 that we will see these images again over the 10 And we have And I hope time. 11 But there is a benefit to Obverse 01A 12 when we look at the semiquincentennial depictions 13 as a whole. 14 the quarters, it may be important to include a 15 Liberty that in this image could read as African 16 American or reads sort of more diverse than some 17 of the Liberties that we are considering for the 18 Declaration and Constitution quarters. 19 making sure that we have across the portfolio a 20 range of Liberties depicted. 21 Depending on our Liberty choices for So just On the reverse, you know, I think that 22 Reverse 01 is very compelling. We have seen 23 something like this before. 24 change from what we saw in July. It is not a big 25 deviation from the current dime. And I think It is a slight www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 22 1 there is space for more creativity on the 2 reverse. 3 I think there is an argument to be 4 made to consider 03A as Jeanne described because 5 it says, LIBERTY OVER TYRANNY. 6 worth remembering that, you know, in our sort of 7 complicated country that sees our, you know, 8 different aspects of our history in different 9 ways, that for some people, the most valuable And I think it is 10 thing to commemorate in -- about -- or the most 11 valuable thing to commemorate in 2026 is 1776 12 itself, the active revolution before overthrowing 13 the monarchy, of overthrowing, you know, sort of 14 illegitimate states. 15 And so for those for whom liberty over 16 tyranny is a much more compelling chapter of our 17 history, then the renewals that follows through 18 the evolution of civil rights and women's 19 suffrage, it may be important to include that 20 moment explicitly somewhere in the 2026 21 portfolio. 22 23 24 25 But that's it. You know, I still think 01 reverse is the safest bet. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you very much. Annelisa Purdie, please. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 23 1 MEMBER PURDIE: 2 Chairman. 3 Annelisa Purdie. 4 Thank you, Mr. Good morning, everyone. This is One of the big considerations with 5 this portfolio in particular is the size of the 6 dime. 7 I am constantly thinking about the thinness of 8 the dime and the importance of having a design 9 that will make an impact, especially for And when looking at each of these designs, 10 something that people have been familiar with for 11 so long. 12 For the obverses, my favorites were 13 1A. 14 back to the Mercury dime. 15 great update of what people are used to here. 16 And I think that it will resonate with many. 17 I think it's effective. I think it harkens I think that it's a I also loved 2A. I believe we saw two 18 design offers 2 before. 19 design with 2A. 20 would work on the dime again because of the size. 21 But I would like to see this perhaps on a larger 22 coin. 23 But I like the updated I am not sure how well that For Design 4A for the obverse, I like 24 this one, but the sash was a little confusing. 25 wasn't sure at first whether it was flames or a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 24 1 sash, what was going on. 2 consideration is size. 3 something in general, the overall composition of 4 this that I do think would be appealing and would 5 work well, just not for something the size of a 6 dime. 7 Again, the But this is also For the reverses, none of the designs 8 made my heart go pitter-patter that much. But I 9 will like to put a play in for the torch for 4A. 10 This one has grown on me from before. 11 crazy about it at first, but I think that this 12 design in contrast with Liberty's head on the 13 obverse showing her holding the torch would work 14 well. 15 overall design on a dime so far. 16 would be interesting to look at it. It's simple. 17 I wasn't We have not seen this And I think it Some considerations again about size, 18 whether this would work, but I think this will 19 work much more so than Reverse 4 with the burning 20 of the sash. 21 be very difficult to replicate. 22 work. 23 I think that's something that will But 4A would And Design 3A as well. 24 works. 25 eaglet. It's okay. It's an eagle, very little, perhaps an But I wouldn't have an issue if this www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 25 1 were there at all. 2 keep LIBERTY OVER TYRANNY under the ONE DIME for 3 this one. 4 you. 5 6 And I think it's important to I think that works very well. Thank CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you. Donald MEMBER SCARINCI: So for all the Scarinci. 7 8 reasons Kellen very articulately stated, I think 9 either the choice of 1 or 1A is really a no- 10 brainer. 11 because of the -- I don't see the need to repeat 12 the 250 years, and the laurel wreath does 13 represent success and victory. 14 15 I agree with Jeanne. I prefer 1A So I think that's a great -- this is a great alternative design to Franklin. 16 And as for the reverse, you know, I 17 also agree with Kellen and others who picked the 18 torch, either 1 or 1A. 19 is probably the better one because it's -- even 20 though I prefer the more even spacing for E 21 PLURIBUS UNUM on 1A. 22 tough one. 23 And, you know, I think 1 So this is going to be a But, you know, I think we need a torch 24 on the reverse because collectors collect dimes 25 with full bands. So we have still have some www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 26 1 bands that we can be consistent. 2 And we don't know what's going to 3 happen after this if we are going to revert to 4 Roosevelt or if we are going to, you know, grace 5 the nation with images of Liberty instead of 6 presidents, dead presidents. 7 So anyway, this is a simple portfolio. 8 Very well done. 9 commended. All the artists should be The dime is probably the toughest 10 thing, I think, to design. 11 small. 12 It needs to be big. 13 one object. 14 got that. 15 It's really just so And here the head needs to be dominant. The reverse can only have And all of the artists, you know, I am concerned about the -- I would be 16 a little concerned putting an eagle on the 17 reverse of a dime because the eagle is a more 18 majestic -- it's a majestic statement, and the 19 dime is small. 20 21 So anyway, that's my -- CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you very much. John Saunders. 22 MEMBER SAUNDERS: Hi. First of all, 23 I apologize for being late. I was in Uber hell 24 for the last 40 minutes trying to get a ride 25 here. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 27 1 Anyway, to the obverse designs, I like 2 6A a lot. I think we had 6 when we looked at 3 these things last time. 4 the expression. 5 it. And I didn't quite like And I think with 6A, they killed So that is by far my favorite. 6 They are all good obverse designs. 7 The 3, 3A and 3B, there's just something in their 8 expression that doesn't seem right to me. 9 don't know if they're resentful or mischievous or I 10 something. 11 expression I don't particularly like for putting 12 on the coin. 13 if you met her but not for the coin. 14 But it's just something in the I mean, she's probably a lot of fun And the 4s kind of remind me of the 15 Mother Nature ad where they used to advertise for 16 the 70 cent spread versus butter. 17 was the 70 cent spread. 18 for margarine against it. 19 nice to fool Mother Nature. 20 old enough to remember those things. 21 that kind of reminds me of Mother Nature there. 22 I like 2A. I guess butter They were advertising You know, it's not Okay. So you have to be Anyway, It seems like 23 everybody likes 01, 01A, 2, I prefer. 24 think it's a perfectly nice design. 25 06A a lot better. 01A, I I still like So that's where I am at. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 28 1 In terms of the reverse, I like the 2 torch. I think 1, 1A -- I like 1A better because 3 it's a little simple. 4 design to get on something as small as a dime. 5 And as Annelisa says, you've got to be careful 6 how much stuff you're putting on there. 7 like 1A it's simpler, better. 8 of nice. 9 dime. I mean, we've got a lot of So I So the 3 is kind I think 2 is much too small for the So I would go with 1A. 10 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: For my own comments, 11 I am going to join Art's bucking trends here in 12 parts because I do like 1 and 1A to a degree. 13 do find these to be interesting and attractive 14 designs. 15 I But my concern when looking at the 16 overall portfolio, not just the dime but as well 17 as the quarters and the half dollar is again that 18 we -- from my perspective, I think that we need 19 to be looking at a chronological progression as 20 of where -- you know, from the spark that led to 21 the Declaration of Independence through the five 22 inflection points and then the view to the 23 future. 24 25 And I think that there is a way again to represent this chronological progression in a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 29 1 way through the depictions of Liberty and 2 reverses and so forth. 3 And so while this obverse does in a 4 way harken back to earlier depictions of Liberty, 5 she is, to my eyes, decidedly modern. 6 therefore, I was looking for a Liberty for the 7 dime that was perhaps I wouldn't say old- 8 fashioned but at least something that made, say, 9 an allusion to earlier U.S. coinage. And 10 In that respect, I think that Number 11 3 does the job well in part because I find there 12 to be something of an illusion in this image to 13 the Peace dollar, even though the Peace dollar 14 obviously is a 20th Century production and not a 15 18th or 19th Century production. 16 it does, I think, reference an earlier stage of 17 U.S. coinage and therefore, you know, would, 18 again represent that sort of chronological 19 progression. 20 21 22 Nevertheless, So I do have a preference for the 3 series rather than Number 1. And then in term of the reverses, I am 23 very much opposed to the idea of putting a torch 24 on this coinage, again, because I think it looks 25 a little too much like the current dime. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And if, Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 30 1 again, we are thinking of this sort of 2 progression, there is not much progression at all 3 in this. 4 are producing. 5 We are just continuing what we already And I, you know, again was looking for 6 something perhaps a little more traditional or 7 something that, again, made reference to U.S. 8 coinage at an earlier time. 9 Reverses 2 and 3 do that. 10 And I find that And I understand the concerns about, 11 you know, the small size of the dime and the 12 concern that Donald raised about the eagle being 13 perhaps a little too majestic for the dime. 14 nevertheless, I think that these are very 15 compelling images. 16 particularly of Reverse 2. 17 favorite. 18 And I love the dynamism, That is overall my So I would certainly make a case for 19 adopting Obverse 3 and then pairing that with 20 Reverse 2. 21 22 23 24 25 But We are joined by Mike Moran again so -MEMBER MORAN: I haven't heard everybody's comments. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: There is a growing www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 31 1 trend toward Obverse 1 and Reverse 1. 2 let you make your comments now at this point. 3 MEMBER MORAN: 4 1 and Reverse 1 for me. 5 off right. 6 So I will Well, it's not Obverse Okay. Start this thing To me, let me make two pitches that I 7 see here of things that I don't like. 8 years, I passed math. 9 dual date down there, you don't need 250 years, 10 particularly on a dime. 11 Again, 250 I can -- if you got the It's ground clutter. And the other thing, I am very much 12 with Thomas Jefferson that Phrygian cap is wrong 13 and inappropriate for American coinage. 14 to me eliminates a couple of the ones of the 15 obverse. 16 train here, and I'm not going to try and wag the 17 dog. But I know I'm on the tail end of the 18 To me, the next one, about 3A, I 19 believe, the 3s, are good. 20 damn cap. 21 supporting. 22 is a good, fresh-looking dime. 23 on that tondo. 24 put it that way. 25 And that 3A gets rid of that So that is one that I will be I will support all of the 3s. That It will show well And it is appealing to me. I'll On the reverse, again, I understand www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 32 1 Peter's complaint about the torch. 2 is not a complete renewal. 3 didn't come into play until the Statue of Liberty 4 in terms of being an easily recognizable icon of 5 American liberty. 6 7 The torch really If you look at 2 -- they're searching for a -- no, they're looking for me -- 8 9 It probably PARTICIPANT: We lost the whole network. 10 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 11 MEMBER MORAN: Should we pause? I can keep going. 12 mean, I've got it up on my screen. 13 concept of the eagle. 14 but I don't want 250 years on that ribbon. 15 already said that. 16 I 2, I like the I think it's excellent, I've But if you go to 2A, you get the 17 denomination on the ribbon, and you get -- and on 18 the dime you get the added negative space around 19 the eagle when you do it that way. 20 that's critical to a successful reverse design. 21 22 So there you have it. And I think I am 3 and 2. In other words, I am Peter. 23 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 24 All right. 25 committee at this point? Oh, there we go. Do we have any questions from the Art? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 33 1 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: Not a question. 2 This is Art Bernstein. 3 out since there is a little bit of interest in 4 Series 3, there is a small typo on the scoring 5 sheet if you are interested in giving points to 6 3B. 7 know where to put some points. The 3 is missing. I just wanted to point So I just wanted you to 8 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right. 9 other questions or comments? Yeah, Sam? 10 MEMBER GELBERD: Any Peter, thank you. 11 This is Sam Gelberd again. I just wanted to 12 state one more time -- I would echo what April 13 had mentioned. 14 dollar are bookends to the semiquincentennial 15 series. Remember the dime and the half 16 Because I am going to be recommending 17 a reverse for the half dollar that does involve a 18 torch, that's the main reason why I think a torch 19 would be best served on the dime as well. 20 21 22 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: you. All right. Thank Jeanne, yes, your hand is raised. MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Yes. This 23 Jeanne Stevens-Sollman. If the eagle is chosen, 24 Number 3 on reverse, I think we need to pay 25 attention to those flight feathers, which are www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 34 1 really secondary feathers there. 2 Stevens-Sollman. 3 4 This is Jeanne So the flight feathers on the eagle, those are not correct. 5 They should be straight. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Any other comments 6 or questions from the committee? Any comments 7 from our subject matter experts? Yes, Lee Ann 8 Potter, if you would like to address the 9 committee, please do. 10 MS. POTTER: Good morning, everyone. 11 I appreciate being able to chime in at a 12 distance. 13 comments. 14 And I have enjoyed hearing your And yes, I do remember the Mother 15 Nature and the margarine commercial, just so 16 you're not the only one out there. 17 me laugh because I was thinking the same thing, 18 and I couldn't remember what the ad was for. 19 I really appreciate you reminding. And it made So 20 And I think the comments -- and, 21 again, I am sort of speaking on behalf of my 22 colleague, Richard Hunt, who I believe some of 23 you had an opportunity to meet yesterday who is 24 at the National Archives. 25 the dime, we too had a preference for the ones In our exchanges about www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 35 1 and the threes. 2 the comments that are coming from all of you sort 3 of resonate with that as well. 4 And so it's interesting to hear One thing I do want to emphasize, 5 something that came out in our discussions, was 6 the expression liberty over tyranny, we felt very 7 strongly that having that included on the dime is 8 really what helps it resonate with the America 9 250 theme and being very, you know, deliberate to 10 help people recognize what it was in 1776 that 11 made what the American experiment meant to the 12 world. I think it's great that that has come up. 13 So, again, the ones and the threes 14 were certainly our favorites as well. 15 comment about the torch in a couple of instances 16 resembling the Olympics is also something that 17 had come up. 18 you know, maybe that is another thing that helps 19 us remember what else is happening, you know, in 20 the world at the current time. 21 for letting me chime in. 22 Lee Ann. 24 time? 25 But there was also a little bit of, CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 23 And your So anyway, thanks Thank you very much, Any other comments or questions at this MS. STAFFORD: I am only looking at www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 36 1 Joe because I know this is such a small planchet, 2 and we talked a lot about ensuring the 3 coinability that these images would convey. 4 5 Did you have anything you wanted to share or -- 6 MR. MENNA: This is Joseph Menna. 7 Yeah, we had a lot of internal talks about this, 8 all the portfolios obviously. 9 the 3 series some of the comments were made in I recall regarding 10 the summer about the severity in the look and 11 stuff like that. 12 I think just the composition, the 13 face, the more serene, yet purposeful gaze, I 14 won't editorialize as to what's the best design 15 or what anyone should be thinking about 16 compositionally and stylistically. 17 is a lot of strong support for resolution of this 18 and all of them. 19 I think there But I wanted to point out the artist 20 did try very strongly to meet the request in 21 adapting both the headpiece and the demeanor on 22 the face. 23 Thanks. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right. All right. Thank 24 you. Any other comments, questions? 25 And if not, then the committee will now score the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 37 1 2026 dime. 2 score sheets to CCAC counsel, Greg Weinman, and 3 we will take a roughly 10 minute break and return 4 at 9:25. 5 When you are done, please return the (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 6 went off the record at 9:11 a.m. and resumed at 7 9:21 a.m.) 8 9 10 11 12 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: back. All right. We are We will wait to hear the scores until after we have scored the half dollar. So let's move on to, I know -- the anticipation. 13 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: 14 a difference to us if we knew the scores before 15 we looked at the half dollars. 16 17 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: It might make Would the committee prefer to hear the scores prior to the -- 18 (Chorus of yes.) 19 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay. Then let's 20 hear the scores for the dime before we go on to 21 the half dollar then. 22 MR. WEINMAN: Before I read the 23 scores, I would like to do a point of 24 clarification. 25 want to make sure we clarify. Something that Donald said that I You mentioned, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 38 1 Donald, what would come after this. 2 The authority for this particular 3 program, for the redesign, at the end of 2026, 4 beginning of 2027, the dime, by statute, reverts 5 back to what it was before. 6 discretion there. 7 what it was before. 8 9 So we don't have It reverts back to exactly The quarter and the half move on the sports quarter program. At the end of the sports 10 quarter program in 2031, then we have the option 11 to pick a different design for the obverse and 12 reverse so long as the obverse maintains George 13 Washington and John Kennedy. 14 portrait or George Washington and a new portrait 15 of John Kennedy, a different reverse. 16 dime reverts back to what it was before. 17 MS. STAFFORD: There can be a new But the But what I think 18 Donald may have been referencing is the 25 year 19 rule and that the dime is actually within that 20 time frame. 21 MR. WEINMAN: An additional 22 clarification, yes, under the statutory authority 23 would allow us, but not necessarily -- 24 MS. STAFFORD: 25 MR. WEINMAN: And that varies -In that period, yes. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 39 1 MS. STAFFORD: 2 MR. WEINMAN: 3 could. Right, no. But no, we probably You're right. 4 MEMBER SCARINCI: We might talk about 5 like the -- especially the half dollar. The half 6 dollar is non-circulating. 7 to -- the half dollar is an opportunity to maybe 8 change every year and increase collector interest 9 at the same time as, you know, allowing us to use It's an opportunity 10 the half dollar playing field, you know, the 11 size, which is really wonderful for, you know, 12 for commemorating things as well as, you know, 13 coming up with different themes each year. 14 you know, something to talk about. 15 MR. WEINMAN: Yeah, they changed the 16 half dollar every year to comply with the 17 legislation. 18 19 So, MEMBER SCARINCI: Yes, yes. To allow us to do that. 20 MR. WEINMAN: Right. 21 MEMBER SCARINCI: 22 MR. WEINMAN: Yes. Okay. Meanwhile back to 23 the issue of at hand, which is the scoring of the 24 dimes. 25 ready. Okay. So for the dimes, when you're www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 40 1 Obverse, once again today it is out of 2 a possible 30 points, Obverse 01 received 11 3 points. 4 it the high scoring design. Obverse 01A received 21 points, making 5 Obverse 02 received 3. 6 received 5. 7 03B received 13. 8 05 received 3. 9 and 06A received 8. 10 03 received 12. 03A received 16. 04 received 3. 05A received 3. O4A received 4. O6 received 5 Moving on to the reverses, where there 11 was not much as clarity. 12 points. 13 2 received 7 points. 14 points. 15 points. 16 Obverse 02A Reverse 1 received 14 Reverse 1A received 13 points. Reverse 2A received 13 Reverse 2A -- I'm sorry, 3, received 9 Reverse 3A received 15 points, making 17 it the high scoring design. 18 points, and Reverse 4A received 7 points. 19 as much clarity on the reverse. 20 Reverse CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Reverse 4 received 4 So not Thank you very much. 21 So we will now move on to our last portfolio to 22 consider in the semiquincentennial program, and 23 that is the obverse and reverse design candidates 24 for the 2026 half dollar, which April Stafford 25 and Boneza Hanchock will now present. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So April, Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 41 1 whenever you're ready. 2 MS. STAFFORD: A little history of the 3 half dollar's design. 4 coin, the Kennedy half dollar, was first issued 5 in 1964, about four months after the 6 assassination of President John F. Kennedy. 7 obverse shows a profile portrait of Kennedy while 8 the presidential seal appears on the reverse. 9 The current U.S. 50-cent The The first half dollar was minted in 10 1794 with Liberty personified on the obverse and 11 an eagle on the reverse. 12 the half dollar featured variations of Liberty 13 similar to those represented on the dime as well 14 as Adolph A. Weinman's Walking Liberty, issued 15 first in 1916. 16 Throughout its history, In 1948, an image of Benjamin Franklin 17 replaced Walking Liberty on the obverse of the 18 half dollar. 19 Bell in Philadelphia. 20 Its reverse depicted the Liberty And of course, everyone knows for the 21 1976 bicentennial issuance of the half dollar, 22 the presidential seal was replaced with an image 23 of Independence Hall. 24 25 The half dollar for the semiquincentennial is the final of the three acts www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 42 1 comprising the 2026 dime, quarters, and half 2 dollar. 3 keep our Republic for the next 250 years and 4 emphasizes the critical role of the citizen in a 5 participatory and knowledge-based democracy. It explores what is required of us to 6 In drafting their designs, artists 7 were encouraged to consider a bold, modern style 8 to underscore the theme of looking to the future 9 and to potentially contrast and complement the 10 more traditional imagery anticipated on the 2026 11 dime. 12 Obverse designs show a new depiction 13 of personified liberty and prominently feature 14 the inscription, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, to 15 amplify the half dollar's theme. 16 inscriptions include, IN GOD WE TRUST, and the 17 date range. 18 Additional Reverse designs are inspired by James 19 Madison's observation that, "Knowledge will 20 forever govern ignorance, and a people that mean 21 to be their own governors must arm themselves 22 with the power that knowledge gives." 23 Designs explore the call to action for 24 citizenship, stewardship of liberty, with many 25 featuring an inscription quoting James Madison, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 43 1 specifically, KNOWLEDGE IS THE ONLY GUARDIAN OF 2 TRUE LIBERTY. Additional reverse inscriptions are 3 E PLURIBUS UNUM and HALF DOLLAR. 4 So now the candidate designs, we have 5 Obverse 1, 1A, 1B that depict Liberty proudly 6 carrying an American flag while leading a young 7 girl, representing the future generations, 8 forward. 9 Here, Liberty takes the form of a 10 nurturing figure as she guides the youth in her 11 care, leading by example. 12 In Design 1, the young girl holds her 13 hand over her brow to shade her eyes as she looks 14 to her bright future. In 1A and 1B, she proudly 15 carries Liberty's torch. 16 the figures are framed by a ring of 50 stars. 17 In the latter design, Obverse 2 features a strong, confident 18 Liberty bearing the flame that will light the way 19 toward our nation's future. 20 Obverse 3 features a stylized Liberty 21 meeting the viewer's gaze, readying to pass her 22 torch on to the next generation. 23 Obverse 4 depicts Liberty patiently 24 guiding a young child in lighting her torch, 25 representing the care and effort necessary to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 44 1 ensure liberty for future generations. 2 Obverse 5 shows a close-up view of the 3 Statue of Liberty, her steadfast gaze looking 4 outward as if toward the future. 5 For the reverse designs, Reverse 1 6 features the Capitol dome as an iconic symbol of 7 the power and rights of citizens, the elected 8 officials who represent them, and the U.S. 9 government. 10 The design includes the additional 11 inscription, TOWARD A MORE PERFECT UNION, as a 12 reminder of the continued effort required to 13 fulfill the aspirations in our founding 14 documents. Here, three stars represent the 15 Declaration of Independence, the U.S. 16 Constitution, and the Bill of Rights. 17 Reverse 2 features hands working 18 together to plant an oak tree sapling in a 19 fertile ground, representing the participatory 20 nature of democracy and symbolizing the 21 collective work required to maintain our 22 republic. 23 Reverses 3, 3A and 3B feature Liberty 24 passing her torch to a new generation with the 25 aphorism, KNOWLEDGE IS THE ONLY GUARDIAN OF TRUE www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 45 1 LIBERTY, arced around the border. 2 3 In Reverse 3 and 3A, we have a backdrop of the American flag featured. 4 Reverse 4 features Liberty's torch, 5 with emanating rays of light representing hope 6 and promise for future generations. James 7 Madison's dictum, KNOWLEDGE IS THE ONLY GUARDIAN 8 OF TRUE LIBERTY, arcs around the flame as if 9 forming a protective barrier. 10 Reverses 5 and 5A feature Liberty 11 passing her torch, its flame trailing with the 12 momentum of purpose to a new generation. 13 Reverse 6 depicts a close-up view of 14 the Statue of Liberty's torch, an enduring symbol 15 of our nation. 16 Reverse 7 features two hands that hold 17 and protect the flame of Liberty, representing 18 both the individual care needed to preserve 19 liberty as well as the responsibility to maintain 20 it for future generations. 21 22 23 And that concludes the candidate designs. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you very much. 24 Are there any technical or legal questions from 25 the committee at this time about the designs for www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 46 1 the 2026 half dollar before we begin our general 2 discussion? 3 All right. Let's begin. And I would 4 again like to remind the members to please keep 5 their comments to five minutes or less and to 6 identify yourself for the record prior to 7 speaking. 8 9 Let's begin with Dr. Christopher Capozzola, if you would, please. 10 11 MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: you. All right. This is Chris Capozzola. 12 Thank I will be brief. I think on the obverse, we had seen 13 this before, very compelling images of 01, 01A 14 and 01B. 15 some discussion around the little girl's hand. 16 And in our previous discussion, I think 01A 17 addresses that. 18 striking. 19 Of them, I think, you know, there was It is very compelling and very I will also say on all of this, I very 20 much appreciate artistically and in terms of what 21 it communicates, Obverse 5. 22 Kellen spoke to that image in earlier discussion. 23 I just don't know especially if it is paired with 24 a torch, also based off the Statue of Liberty, if 25 it's compelling as a half dollar. And I know that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 47 1 So I don't know whether this image can 2 make it somewhere into the portfolio of the 3 semiquincentennial, but I'm not sure that it 4 works as the obverse of the half dollar. 5 And on the reverse here, I think that 6 the strongest one for me was Reverse 6, which 7 again very clearly signifies the Statute of 8 Liberty. 9 people. That makes it legible, I think, to many 10 It may, in that case, you know, be 11 sort of too obvious to people. 12 safe choice. 13 level of detail and the size that a half dollar 14 is, that the detail on the torch will be visible 15 to many people. 16 It's a bit of a But I think especially in this And I think because we have not chosen 17 any of the other usages of Independence Hall, I 18 do not think Reverse 1, the Capitol, works here, 19 although I love what it communicates. 20 A MORE PERFECT UNION is a great phrase to 21 consider for the reverse of the half dollar as 22 the conclusion chronologically of what's 23 happening across that series of points. 24 25 And TOWARD CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you very much. Jeanne Stevens-Sollman, if you would, please. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 48 1 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Thank you, 2 Mr. Chairman. 3 agree with Christopher very much on the Obverse 4 1, 1A. 5 This is Jeanne Stevens-Sollman. I prefer myself the Obverse 1 because 6 she is not carrying the torch. 7 the future. 8 the adult is really positive. 9 Walking Liberty that we have had in the past on 10 I And I think that the proud stance of the half dollars. 11 She is looking to It echoes the So that is my choice. As for, you know, 2, 3, 4 and 5, I 12 think that they are very contemporary. However, 13 they sort of don't harmonize with the images that 14 we have chosen for the other designs. 15 think perhaps Number 1 would fit better. And I 16 Going to the reverse, I like Reverse 17 1 because of what it says, TOWARD A MORE PERFECT 18 UNION. 19 coinage series. 20 really a beautiful design. 21 work lovely on the -- 06, please -- on the 22 reverse. 23 Thank you. It seems like a nice bookend to the 24 25 However, I believe that 06 is And I think it would And it would complement Obverse 1. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Jeanne, thank you very much. Annelisa Purdie, if you would, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 49 1 please. 2 MEMBER PURDIE: Thank you, Mr. 3 Chairman. 4 portfolios we have looked at for this session, I 5 think this one is my favorite. 6 the few where I like elements of all of the 7 designs, both in the obverses and the reverses. 8 I am going to make this very brief. 9 This is Annelisa Purdie. Of all the This is one of For the obverse, Number 1 is far and away my 10 favorite. 11 design of their dresses, both for Lady and 12 Liberty and the child work in that they are 13 modern, but it also harkens back to an earlier 14 time. 15 one is just beautiful in terms of the stride. 16 It was before, still is. I think the And I think that the composition for this The reason why I didn't choose 1A is 17 because of her holding the torch. 18 almost as big as she is, which is the point. 19 it's the idea of her walking confidently 20 hand in the first one better. 21 The torch is But hand in For the obverses, I like the design of 22 Obverse 3B, but with the hands of 5A. 23 think that this is a good opportunity for 24 continuity between the obverses and the reverses 25 in that on the obverse she would not be holding www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And I Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 50 1 the torch. 2 Liberty passing the torch to the next generation. 3 And I think that would work in terms of flipping 4 the coin over and looking through it. 5 But in this reverse, we can see Lady The hands in 3A and 3B for the 6 reverses, I just think it works a little better 7 considering what is on the front. 8 on coins is always a good thing. 9 More children And then I would also like put in for 10 the reverses something for Number 2. 11 that this design is beautiful. 12 works well for the half dollar. 13 it fits with the continuity of the semi-q coins 14 overall in the message that we are trying to get 15 across. 16 I think I think that it I am not sure if But I think it is very beautifully done. I love the diversity of hands in terms 17 of age ranges and types in here and the idea of 18 planting everyone working together to nurture 19 liberty so it also works really well. 20 But choices overall are still Obverse 21 1 and hands of Obverse 5 -- Reverse, excuse me, 22 5A, but with the overall design of Reverse 3B. 23 Thank you very much. 24 25 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you, John Saunders, if you would, please. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 51 1 MEMBER SAUNDERS: Thank you. John 2 Saunders here. On the obverse, I like the first 3 three. 4 that we did for civil rights, the one that had 5 the most votes? 6 Okay. 7 suffrages. Do we have -- can we put up the quarter For the civil rights quarter. Not the civil rights one, but the 8 MR. WEINMAN: Suffrage is 01. 9 MEMBER SAUNDERS: It's enough 10 different, but it's kind of along the same theme. 11 But I'm not sure I like the little girl's hairdo 12 in 1 and 1A. 13 scope of things. 14 But it's not a big deal in the I kind of like her carrying the torch, 15 so I am probably in favor of 01. 16 design. 17 But I still think it may be a little bit too busy 18 for a coin as opposed to a medal there. 19 04 is a nice It's a half dollar, which is bigger. The Statue of Liberty looks very 20 reminiscent of a gold piece that we put out some 21 time ago. 22 most of the public don't see the gold piece. 23 I think because of that, putting the Statue of 24 Liberty on a circulating coin -- I mean, half 25 dollars don't circulate that much anyway, but at But, you know, most collectors and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 52 1 least people got a chance of getting if somebody 2 wants one, they can afford it for -- you know, it 3 costs 50 cents as opposed to $500 or $1,000. 4 So I think even though the design is 5 kind of been there, done that, striking me, I 6 think it's kind of cool to put it on a 7 circulating coin, a non-gold coin. 8 9 I think it shows an awful lot of neck there. I'm not sure I -- I would probably 10 reorient the direction slightly if I was doing 11 it. 12 it's pretty cool to put this on a half dollar. But it is a pretty impressive design, and 13 Going on to Reverses 1, I mean, it's 14 kind of almost too classic, but it's nice. 15 Certainly nothing wrong with it. 16 similar designs for a lot of coins, but we 17 haven't chose them, I don't think, for anything 18 else. 19 there. We've had So maybe it would be nice to put that on 20 02, I must say this does look like a 21 sapling, and it is clearly an oak leaf there. 22 commented on one of the other saplings in another 23 design looked more like a bean sprout than a 24 sapling. 25 But this is a sapling. I understand the symbol of all the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 53 1 hands being there, but it just seems like there 2 is too many hands to me. 3 03 is okay. 04 is okay. 03B is okay. 4 I like 04 a lot. And 05 I like better than 05A. 5 I think it's a nice design. 6 07 didn't appeal to me very much. 7 probably my favorites are going to be 01, 04 and 8 06. 06 is a nice design. I think And that's it. 9 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 10 thank you very much. 11 please. 12 All right, John, Sam Gelberd, if you would, MEMBER GELBERD: Thank you, Peter. 13 This is Sam Gelberd. 14 like Obverses 1, 1A and 1B. For the life of me, 15 I can't get past Obverse 1. It just seems like 16 instead of trying to shield her eyes from a 17 bright future, it looks like she may have a 18 headache. 19 With the obverses, I do I just can't go with that one. With Obverse 1A, I do prefer the torch 20 there. 1B would also work as well. I would be 21 okay with that. 22 talk about this one, but I do like how the torch 23 is separate from the flag. 24 orientation of the flag as well. 25 moving forward. We haven't heard a lot of people And I like the It's kind of It's a bold rendition of -- it's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 54 1 an updated modern look for lack of a better term 2 the walking -- or Liberty Walking half dollar. 3 I love the motto IN GOD WE TRUST and 4 the date are divided by the exergue line. 5 think that works really well. 6 I The other obverse that I did like was 7 Number 5. 8 think if this were on a half dollar again, it 9 might actually get people using half dollars in 10 Of course, very bold rendition. I circulation. 11 But that being said, I think if we 12 went with Obverse 1A or 1B, that might have the 13 same effect. 14 having something like that in their pocket and 15 using it as coinage. 16 It might really get people into All of the obverses do have artistic 17 merit. 18 of them, I think the artist really did a great 19 job trying to come up with a modern bold look for 20 this series. 21 I feel the same with the reverses. All With the reverses, initially I loved 22 Reverse 4, that rendition of the torch. 23 can just get to that one. 24 design very much. 25 the reverses. Yeah. If we I do like this This is my second favorite for www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 55 1 But when we were hit with Reverse 2 Number 6, which seemed to be a more updated one 3 in this current portfolio, Reverse 6 will get my 4 votes for the best one to go with. 5 it's very eye-catching. 6 will be able to recognize exactly what this is. 7 It's really sad if they don't. 8 would be able to pick up on that design very, 9 very well. 10 I just think Almost every American I think everyone The reverses in the 3 series, 3A and 11 3B are very evocative of challenge coins, what we 12 might see as a military challenge coin. 13 that reason, I wasn't a big fan of those as well. 14 So for So for the obverses, ultimately, I 15 landed on Obverse 1B and for the reverse, I would 16 have to go with Number 6. 17 to say about that. 18 19 20 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you. Wonderful, Sam. Mike Moran, if you would, please. MEMBER MORAN: 21 is Mike Moran. 22 different directions. 23 And that's all I have Thank you, Peter. This I approached this from two Looking at the obverses 1, 1A or 1B to 24 me are very good, the Walking Liberty. 25 particularly like 1B because of the 50 stars. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I I Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 56 1 think that's a good rendition. 2 going forward, we are 50 stars, we are not 13. 3 So that tells a story to me. 4 And the fact is, And I like the -- it's an updated 5 modern Liberty. 6 or 1A. 7 I could be just as happy with 1 Let's talk about Kellen's obvious 8 choice for obverse, that would be Number 5. 9 good. It's And I was originally willing to -- well, I 10 was going to say, well, been there, done that, on 11 a five dollar gold piece for the centennial 12 celebration of the Statue of Liberty because it 13 is close to that although it is looking the other 14 direction. 15 compelling argument that a majority of the 16 American public has never seen it or if they've 17 seen it, they've forgotten it. 18 objections there are ridiculous so I am not going 19 to raise them. 20 vote for that one, too. 21 But I thought that John made a You know, I do. And that my I am going to I am going to. So let's go to the reverse. I've got 22 two themes going here. 23 Liberty looking forward and the other is the 24 Walking Liberty or the obverse is a 1. 25 One is the Statue of On the reverse to me, it seems that if www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 57 1 you go with Number 1, you have a compelling case 2 to make for one of the reverses for the handoff 3 of the torch because we are going toward looking 4 forward to the future, to future generations for 5 them to carry and do as well or better, actually 6 better than what we've done. 7 either 3 or 5 in that regard. 8 9 So I could go with I can't go with Number 1 even though I like the theme of it, after 250 years -- Number 10 2, I mean. 11 That's simple. 12 We should be past the sapling stage. And let's go to the last one, which is 13 6. 14 you've got to do 6 on the reverse. 15 just makes a compelling coin. 16 from that. 17 speaks to where we've been, but it also gives us 18 the hope of where we are going when you compare 19 it with 5 on the obverse. 20 21 22 23 24 25 If you are going to do 5 on the obverse, I mean, it I can't get away And I really -- it's elegant. It So here I am making a case for Kellen's obvious choice. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Kellen, would you like to address your obvious choice? MEMBER HOARD: I would. Thank you. Yeah, so we'll just start with the ones I like on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 58 1 the half dollar. 2 There is a reason we brought Obverse 3 1 and 1A this far. They're really stellar 4 designs which capture everything we're hoping to 5 capture in the half dollar. 6 inspiring, exciting designs. 7 there's not much controversy here. 8 way to illustrate this theme of the past more 9 than to show American what's in their past? They're dynamic and It seems like What better 10 better way to use the large space of the half 11 dollar? 12 What Obverse in this, the details 13 stunningly, you know, the flows in the dress, the 14 stars in the flag, et cetera. 15 one, in my view. 16 This is an easy There are a few strong reverse 17 designs. 18 Reverse 6, which we have talked about before and 19 Reverse 4 really quite compelling. 20 I find the power of the torches on I think they are fanatically 21 appropriate as they represent that eternal flame 22 and knowledge. 23 has a real visual impact. 24 pop off the coin. 25 I think on the half dollar, this They really seem to But I am also intrigued by Reverse 2, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 59 1 particularly as it related to Obverse 1. 2 know, just as we see a woman leading a girl by 3 her hand on the obverse, we see the hands of 4 Americans working together to protect and invest 5 in our national values in the reverse. 6 a visually beautiful design. 7 align with those of the hands. 8 happy with this one, too. 9 that torch. 10 You It's also We have lines that So I would be But I really do like And then before I finish, look at 11 this. 12 Enough of the -- but, again, just as Chris said, 13 and he is right. 14 dollar. 15 Declaration of Independence quarter. 16 We're back to Obverse 5, my favorite. This isn't right for the half But it's perfect for obverse of our For the reason I shared yesterday, its 17 fanatic and visual fit is simply wonderful. 18 John mentioned, it is very cool to have the 19 statue on a modern circulating coin for its own 20 sake if not for the fact that what you represent 21 is so needed in our country right now. 22 As Last night, I was just trying to get 23 outside my own collector brain and make sure I 24 was informed and had everything straight. 25 that the designs are public, I sent the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So not Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 60 1 Declaration of Independence portfolio to 36 young 2 people in Seattle, in DC, in London, all over, 3 all non-collectors, all from a number of 4 different backgrounds, races, genders, ages, and 5 with no further prompting, I said which obverse 6 is your favorite and which theme do you 7 understand, which one fits the theme the best? 8 9 Twenty-eight got back to me by this meeting. Only one preferred Design 2, which is 10 our current favorite, the apathetic sorceress 11 Liberty. 12 Liberty carving yourself out of stone Design 1, 13 which is fair enough. You know, several did choose the 14 I slept on it overnight. And you have 15 got me slightly, slightly convinced that it's the 16 right one for the Constitution. 17 congratulations. 18 the other people. 19 listen to them. 20 or prefer Design 2. 21 So You've changed my mind as did But I really don't have to But students didn't understand So we can tread our own course, but I 22 thought this was kind of a useful case study or 23 at least for me it was helpful in getting some 24 perspective. 25 of Liberty is the symbol we should lead with out But I continue to feel the Statue www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 61 1 of the gate as she ties in perfect with this 2 theme of a visual dynamism on par with what we 3 want our first impression of the program to be. 4 She's a symbol that can't be confused for 5 anything else by the public and which the 6 American public will surely enjoy. 7 And, of course, we'll talk more about 8 it in our discussion later. 9 raise this while we had the portfolio in front of 10 11 12 13 us. But I just wanted to So thanks for hearing my soapbox again. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you. Donald Scarinci, if you would, please. MEMBER SCARINCI: You know, I keep 14 thinking that consistency -- there is a 15 consistency in inconsistency in art. 16 know, I would not -- I think the theme of this 17 coin is a very important theme for where we are 18 now in time, which is, you know, across the world 19 not just in America, we are experiencing a 20 generational shift. 21 And, you In just about every business, the 22 focus is on succession and continuation, and it 23 is very similar time and to, you know, I guess 24 when I was very young, very young, mind you, when 25 I experienced, you know, the last time the torch www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 62 1 was passed in the early 70s -- late 60s, early 2 70s. 3 taken. And it wasn't exactly passed. 4 It had to be You know, in this shift, at this time, 5 I guess the one thing my generation is doing 6 right is, you know, for the most part, right, 7 with some exceptions, we are trying to pass it. 8 And, you know, this concept of, you know, America 9 in the future, an America that we have the 10 struggle to, you know, as Benjamin Franklin said, 11 you know, it's a republic if you can keep it. 12 And, you know, it is our struggle. 13 And this is a -- so this coin is a big 14 planchet. And we can just about do anything we 15 want with the half dollar. 16 am being inconsistent this time because I 17 advocate for designs like 5 on smaller planchet 18 coins, you know? 19 And, you know, and I But in this case, you know, I kind of 20 like, you know, Obverse 5 because immediately 21 it's iconic. 22 is Liberty, right? 23 this generation and in the next, it's Liberty. 24 And there is a consistency to that in the 25 generational shift. It's immediately identifiable this This is, you know, even in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 63 1 And, you know, the reverse, I like 2 Number 1 but I wouldn't go with that. 3 consistent with the thinking is Number 5 or 4 Number 5A, which is, you know, very simple. 5 very simple. 6 torch. 7 I think It's But it shows the passing of the And it's very appropriate. This theme 8 of the passing of the torch, you know, is very -- 9 it's what John F. Kennedy said. You know, we 10 passed the torch to the new generation in 1964 11 when he made that speech. 12 generational shift expressed in our time, you 13 know, in a way as it was expressed by JFK whose 14 half dollar we are using for this coin. 15 And so it's a So there is a certain poetry to that, 16 you know, and a connection to John F. Kennedy, 17 the passing of the torch to the new generation, 18 the last time it was passed. 19 being passed again. 20 And this time it is And we are evoking, you know, we're 21 kind of -- the coin would evoke the memory of 22 John F. Kennedy because it is on the Kennedy 23 dollar at this point. 24 That's why that was kind of an important 25 question. It is going to revert. It is going to revert back to the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 64 1 Kennedy dollar. 2 So this coin is kind of, you know, a 3 next generation, a new generation of passing of 4 the Kennedy dollar, of the Kennedy half dollar. 5 So, again, it's inconsistent because 6 I would never be advocating for a -- we have a 7 large planchet. 8 think that would be a very powerful cornerstone 9 piece in the set. 10 Let's use it, right? Big is bold. But I So if we go back to 11 Obverse 5, you know, it's big. 12 on a -- a half dollar planchet, that's big. 13 That's bold. 14 by this generation and the next. 15 That's big. It's And that's something recognizable And the reverse showing the hands is 16 really critical, you know. 17 it has to be paired with the hands in either 5 or 18 5A. 19 know, it's just either one. 20 generation 21 If we go with this, And I'm indifferent as to 5 or 5A. But it is this handing the torch to the next. So I think it makes the statement and 22 I think grounds the portfolio. 23 grounds the set. 24 25 You I think it So that's my thought. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Art Bernstein, if you would, please. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 65 1 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: This is Arthur 2 Bernstein. With regard to the Obverse Series 1, 3 each of these designs is, I would say, very 4 realistic. 5 These are human beings carrying a flag, walking. 6 What I find unrealistic about 1A and There is nothing allegorical about it 7 1B is the torch. That doesn't seem realistic to 8 me. 9 that girl could lift that big of an item. It seems out of proportion. 10 I don't think And I made this comment the first time 11 we saw these designs. As a grandfather, I don't 12 think a little girl should be holding an open 13 flame like that walking down the street. 14 really bothered me to see that little girl 15 holding that massive flame. And it 16 So if we were going to go with one of 17 these walking designs, I think I would stick with 18 1 and leave the torch out of it. 19 I would also call some attention to 20 Obverse 2 only because April had talked about the 21 artists were taxed with seeking a bold, modern 22 style. 23 And I just wanted to acknowledge that I thought 24 that was an exciting design. 25 traditional. And to me Obverse 2 was bold and modern. It's very non- And I am going to give that one www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 66 1 2 some points. With regard to the reverses, I think 3 the time to use the architectural features. 4 so I liked Design 1 with the Capitol, and I liked 5 the Reverse 6 with the architectural feature of 6 the statue as a torch. 7 8 And Thank you. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, Art. Thank you very much. 9 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 10 again, when looking at this portfolio in 11 connection with the other portfolios, you know, I 12 again was thinking about the three acts and the 13 role that each one of these individual coins will 14 play within those acts and so looking for some 15 sort of cohesiveness across all of the designs. 16 For my own comments, And I think in this case, the design 17 set number 1 for the obverse certainly does 18 fulfill that since it ties in in many respects 19 as, for example, John pointed out with the 20 women's suffrage obverse for that quarter. 21 So I would be happy adopting any one 22 of these, although I do want to point out that 23 with Obverse 1 and 1A, the way that the woman's 24 dress sort of flows into the young girl's dress, 25 I think will create sort of a blob in the center www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 67 1 of that coin, which we don't have in 1B where 2 there is separation between the dress and the 3 young girl's dress. 4 I also find 1B to be a much more 5 dynamic rendition. 6 in this portrayal of the woman and the girl. 7 And, as Mike pointed out, the 50 stars, I think 8 also adds something to it. 9 10 There seems to be more energy So of these three, I think 1B would be my preference. 11 I certainly understand the leaning 12 that many of the committee members have towards 13 5, this iconic and bold depiction of the Statue 14 of Liberty. 15 Island and passed the Statue of Liberty on a 16 daily basis, I understand the appeal and 17 attraction of that. 18 And as somebody who lives in Staten And I have to admit, I feel that 19 pretty much every day. 20 statute as I'm going across. 21 when the light is right, I will take yet another 22 photo of the Statue of Liberty. 23 hundreds, no doubt, at this point. 24 25 I do glance at the And on certain days And I have But, again, I am not sure if this image really does serve that sort of connection www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 68 1 with the other obverses. 2 we certainly will discuss in the coming hours. 3 And this is something Moving on to the reverse, I do find 4 Number 6 to be really very attractive, very bold. 5 I love the details of the torch. 6 a large planchet that this would be really quite 7 dramatic and so very appealing. 8 9 10 11 12 And I think on So I am leaning at this point towards 1B and 6. All right. I will invite Lee Ann Potter if she has any comments at this point. MS. POTTER: Great. Again, thank you 13 for the opportunity. 14 of your comments and observations. 15 of what you are describing is very much in line 16 with what Richard Hunt and I considered as well. 17 Our favorites were the 1 series and the 5 series. 18 I have enjoyed hearing all Again, much And I think the speaker -- like four 19 speakers ago that was describing combining 20 Obverse 5 and Reverse 5A as a really brilliant 21 match I think is very much in line with our 22 thinking as well. 23 compelling about the torch being handed to that 24 smaller hand. 25 emphasize is the power of that Madison quote. There is something very And one thing I do want to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 69 1 You know, we at the Library of 2 Congress are often talking about the importance 3 of a knowledge-based democracy and how, you know, 4 having an educated populace is what will 5 perpetuate the nation. 6 something very compelling about that quote 7 combined with the torch being handed to the young 8 hand. 9 10 And there is just Anyway, thank you again. Great comments. 11 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you. Any 12 other questions, comments from the committee? 13 Sam. 14 MEMBER GELBERD: Just a quick aside. 15 I know the entire time we have been discussing 16 these portfolios, something Art pointed out to 17 me, when we were looking at the bicentennial half 18 dollar from 1976. 19 does say 200 years of freedom. 20 math lesson on that one. 21 that out. 22 23 MEMBER MORAN: So they do give a I just wanted to point A precursor of things to come. 24 25 On the reverse, it actually CHAIR VAN ALFEN: you. Right, right. Thank you for bringing the coin too so. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Thank Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 70 1 Any other comments or questions? 2 MEMBER MORAN: 3 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 4 MEMBER MORAN: I think I've got one. Mike, please. I listened to 5 everybody, and I came in here with two minds as 6 to what I wanted. 7 John Saunders asked that we call up 8 the suffragette and look at it. 9 with that. And he was happy But the images involved are still the 10 same if we go with Number 1 on the half dollar 11 along with the suffragette that we've chosen. 12 And to me that is -- it's not all right with me 13 when you get right down to it. 14 at me during the course of this meeting. 15 And it's eating I really am going to advocate for 16 Number 5 on the obverse of the half dollar. 17 think it will make an impressive bookend, 18 particularly with Donald's reverse or with the 19 torch itself. 20 little bit better. 21 in terms of the future of the country. 22 that's where I am going to put my points. 23 24 25 I think I like Donald's reverse a The handing off is important CHAIR VAN ALFEN: you very much. I Any All right. And Thank other comments. MEMBER SCARINCI: Just I think I'm www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 71 1 right about this. 2 out in the set. 3 It'll be the piece that stands CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right. We will 4 discuss that shortly. So in the meantime, let us 5 score. 6 design candidates for the 2026 dollar. 7 hand your score sheets to Greg Weinman when you 8 are done. 9 minute break and be back at 10:20. We will score the obverse and reverse Please And we will take a -- let's say a 10 10 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 11 went off the record at 10:07 a.m. and resumed at 12 10:21 a.m.) 13 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: We are back. And I 14 will now ask Greg Weinman, counsel to the CCAC, 15 to present the scores for the 2026 Summit 16 Quincentennial Half-Dollar. 17 ready, Greg. 18 19 20 MR. WEINMAN: So, whenever you're Yes, we have a little bit more clarity on this one. Starting with the obverses for the 21 half-dollar, Obverse 1 received fourteen points 22 out of a possible 30; Obverse 1A received eleven 23 points; Obverse 1B received thirteen points. 24 25 Obverse 2 received six points; Obverse 3 received six points. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 72 1 Obverse 4 received five; and Obverse 2 5 received 22 points out of 30, making Obverse 5 3 the top scoring design. 4 For the reverse, Reverse 1 received 5 twelve points; Reverse 2 received seven; Reverse 6 3 received five; Reverse 3A received six; Reverse 7 3B received three. 8 9 Reverse 4 received eleven points; Reverse 5 received eighteen points; Reverse 5A 10 received nineteen points; and Reverse 6 received 11 25 points out of a possible 30, making Reverse 6 12 the top scoring design. 13 received three points. 14 And finally, Reverse 7 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Greg, thank you very 15 much. 16 shirt sleeves and let's get into it. 17 Now, the real work begins. Roll up your So, the way I would like to do this is 18 first to remind the Committee of the circulating 19 coins overview, which is something that I think 20 we should be keeping in mind as we look forward 21 across all of these portfolios and work towards 22 recommendations. 23 I would like to do that first. And 24 then, I would like to begin by looking at all of 25 the obverse designs that received the higher www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 73 1 scores, talk about various things related to 2 that, and then look at the reverse designs that 3 received the highest scores, and discuss that as 4 well. 5 then to consider obverse and reverse designs 6 together. And then, once we've had some discussion, 7 We have, up to this point, looked at 8 each one of these portfolios individually. And 9 now, of course, is the time to look at all of 10 these portfolios of these designs together, and 11 to be keeping in mind various things as we do. 12 One, of course, is the momentous 13 occasion that we are engaged in at the moment, 14 this complete redesign of most circulating 15 currency for 2026 and, of course, the celebration 16 of the semiquincentennial, the 250th anniversary 17 of the Declaration of Independence. 18 One thing I will ask the Committee at 19 this point, that was to refrain from motion until 20 we have had a chance to discuss the obverse and 21 reverse designs a little bit more and work 22 towards some sort of larger consensus and 23 resolution. 24 25 I also remind the Committee that the votes, the scoring that we have done up to this www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 74 1 point, is essentially a guide and a tool. 2 don't necessarily have to adhere to the scores if 3 we decide that in the end some of these high- 4 scoring obverse or reverse designs don't work as 5 well as some others might. 6 We So, again, those scores are 7 essentially a guide and a tool to help us, but 8 aren't necessarily the final words in what we're 9 doing. 10 So, again, what I would like to do is 11 just start with the overview, and return to the 12 way that this whole program was conceived and 13 designed over the last several years. 14 And again, this was done in 15 conjunction with members of the Citizens Coinage 16 Advisory Committee, with commissions, with input 17 from various special subject matter experts and 18 so forth. 19 And the design themes that were the 20 objectives in a sense, that were developed as 21 part of this, were, number one, promoting 22 America's defining ideals. 23 these coins should celebrate the 24 semiquincentennial, and reflect and highlight 25 American values that unite and define our shared And that is that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 75 1 American identity, including, but not limited to, 2 liberty, self-government, civic engagement, 3 equality, individualism, ideas that bind 4 Americans together across space, as well as time. 5 Also, another theme is inclusivity and 6 recognizing America's diverse histories, that 7 these coins should be inclusive, and reflect and 8 celebrate the varied American story. 9 One should promote and understand 10 empathy, and lead Americans to consider the ways 11 diverse beliefs, customs, and backgrounds, 12 strengthen America and foster a fair, more 13 equitable society. 14 Another third theme that should be, or 15 is, celebrating America's past, present and 16 future, that these coins should inspire Americans 17 to develop a deeper awareness of America's 18 founding principles, the democratic process, the 19 American experiment, and our common humanity, 20 while challenging the next generation of 21 Americans to consider what this shared American 22 inheritance means to them. 23 So, with these themes in mind, the 24 program for these coins then was developed in 25 these three acts, where the first act, again, is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 76 1 the dime that commemorates the founding era in 2 American history, the period leading up to and 3 including the drafting of the Declaration of 4 Independence. 5 The second act explores the next 250 6 years after the Declaration, with five inflection 7 points, the first inflection point being the 8 Declaration of Independence itself in 1776, the 9 drafting of the Constitution in 1787, the Women's 10 Suffrage Movement, which culminated in 1920 with 11 the Nineteenth Amendment -- or, I'm sorry, 12 Abolition, or Abolitionism, which is something 13 we'll get to with the Thirteenth Amendment in 14 1865. 15 Then, with Women's Suffrage, in 1920 16 with the Nineteenth Amendment. 17 finally, with the Civil Rights Act in 1964. 18 And then, So, these five inflection points then 19 illustrate these moments across those 250 years 20 of history. 21 this is the half-dollar, which then looks towards 22 the future and what it is to keep our republic 23 going for the next 250 years, emphasizing the 24 critical role of the citizen in participatory and 25 knowledge-based democracy. And then, the final act in all of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 77 1 So, as we go forward in the next 2 while, I would ask that all of you please keep 3 all of this in mind and, at the same time of 4 course, look at these designs as a way to reflect 5 these things to encourage the engagement of these 6 coins through the designs, but also try to find a 7 way to have all of these coins in a way cohere as 8 a set, because they are, in a sense, very much a 9 set because they were conceived as a set. From 10 the dime, the five quarters, and then into the 11 half-dollar. 12 So, I do think that if we can find a 13 way to make the set cohesive and interact across 14 all of the different coins, we would be doing 15 both ourselves and the nation a great service. 16 So, what I would like to do then is 17 start by looking at the obverses first, with all 18 of this in mind. 19 received, in our individual look at these 20 portfolios, the highest scores. 21 The obverses that have And I would ask each of the Committee 22 members then to offer some opinions, with all of 23 this in mind, of where they think we are with the 24 current selection. 25 for all of this to come up. So, let's wait a moment here All right. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And I Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 78 1 will begin with Mike Moran. 2 MEMBER MORAN: 3 this is Mike Moran. 4 have the first shout-out. 5 Thank you, Peter. And I consider it a privilege to Overall, I'm really proud of what 6 we've done. I think that we tell a really great 7 story. 8 controversy, we've done it in a judicious way, 9 we've listened to one another, and I can say And we've done it with a minimum of 10 myself that I changed my mind on some of them. 11 Kellen, thank you. 12 on the coin you want it on, it's going to be much 13 better on a half-dollar. 14 Even though I didn't put it The one that gives me a problem, I 15 lost on. 16 it's the dime. 17 It actually is my second choice, but I think we're missing the boat on the 18 dime. 19 design -- this is, I believe 1A. 20 I think the design 3 is really better than But if the Committee goes with 1A, 21 it's my second choice, so -- I'm really happy 22 with this, guys. 23 alone. 24 25 I think we need to leave this Even though I'd advocate for a change in the dime, we need to leave this alone, other www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 79 1 than -- yeah, come on, guys, give me number 2 three. 3 MR. WEINMAN: All right. 4 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 5 MEMBER GELBERD: All right. I think Mike just 6 summed it up succinctly. 7 like what we've done. 8 able to come to consensus on the designs. 9 Sam. Perfectly. I really do I like seeing how we're I wonder, maybe because with the first 10 two quarters -- the Declaration, and then 11 Constitution -- how we have consistent E. 12 Pluribus Unum at the top, as well as with the 13 Civil Rights Quarter. 14 I'm okay with it on the Abolitionism 15 and Suffrage Quarter as well. 16 wondering if we shouldn't try to go for an 17 overall more consistent look. 18 But I'm just But then again, the inconsistency of 19 that is not so bad either. 20 that. 21 I can still live with I do like all of these designs. I 22 voted for most of these and I am very happy to 23 see that they've succeeded -- what we've done. 24 25 The dime, like Mike said, yeah, three is okay. But ultimately, I do think we did pick www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 80 1 the right one. 2 Yeah, I am more than comfortable with 3 all of these obverses as coins. 4 bit of concern with the size on the Abolition 5 Quarter with Frederick Douglass, wondering how 6 metal flow might go -- that's maybe a question 7 more for Mike -- just to see if we're going to be 8 able to fill the space effectively upon striking. 9 And that's just more of a numismatic sticking 10 Maybe a little point, I suppose. 11 But ultimately, yeah, great work, 12 everyone. 13 a lot of people. 14 I think this is going to be a hit with So many numismatists have been 15 clamoring for ages to see a return, allegory, 16 some rendition of liberty, back on our money. 17 And I think we're ultimately going to make the 18 collecting community pretty happy with what we've 19 done. 20 And hopefully, we'll get more 21 Americans looking at their money a little bit 22 closer. 23 half-dollars a lot more. 24 denomination. 25 And I'd really like to see people using I've always loved that Big, impressive coin. So, I think ultimately, I did like the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 81 1 obverses and the Obverse 1 suite for the half- 2 dollar. 3 big, impressive Statue of Liberty head there. 4 So, thank you. But I can live with the design of the 5 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 6 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: 7 Bernstein. 8 you and the Mint staff. 9 been really well done. Thank you. Art. This is Arthur I'd like to start by complimenting I think this process has It's just when I first 10 look at the portfolio, my head exploded, and I 11 thought, what are we going to do? 12 is in order for this. 13 (Applause.) 14 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: 15 good process. 16 We've reached a great decision. 17 I think a hand This has been a And I don't have much else to add. I share with Mike a preference for the 18 other design for the dime, but they all look 19 good. 20 When we see them not all together, I 21 just notice something. 22 intentional. 23 between the years between 1776 and 2026, it's the 24 same dash. 25 I'm sure it was I hadn't noticed it. But the dash I has a slight bend to it. And I thought, now, there's an www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 82 1 interesting bit of consistency that I felt was 2 very clever. 3 MS. SULLIVAN: You'll see that 4 throughout all of the portfolios. 5 intentional, based on your recommendation. 6 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: 7 to notice it, but thank you. 8 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 9 MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: That was It took me two days Chris. All right, this is 10 Chris Capozzola. I don't have too much more to 11 add to the sense of revelation that we might have 12 actually been pursuing a coherent enterprise over 13 the last day and a half. 14 And I'll just observe one thing. 15 many of you know, I advocated for one of the 16 versions of Liberty in which she's kind of 17 constructing herself, or emerging her way out of 18 stone. 19 I actually think the arc here is 20 really quite remarkable, if you look at the 21 resolution, the Declaration, as a spark, the 22 Constitution as a small torch, and the half- 23 dollar as the summation of Liberty, with the 24 torch that we know. 25 there's a really nice arc there. And so, I actually think www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 As Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 83 1 I am willing to have another 2 conversation about the Liberty Dime obverse. 3 get that about Liberty on the dime obverse, if 4 the Committee wants to go there. 5 this works really, really amazing. But I think 6 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 7 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: 8 9 Mr. Chairman. I Jeanne. Thank you. Thank you, This is Jeanne Stevens-Sollman. I congratulate the staff, our 10 Committee members, the artists. 11 impressed that we actually, we were able to 12 assemble a very powerful statement about the 250 13 years that we have lived through. 14 I'm truly I must say, I was wanting so much to 15 have the U.S. Marshal involved in the Civil 16 Rights obverse with Ruby Bridges. 17 However, seeing this and seeing how 18 comfortable it seems to fit with every other 19 obverse, this was the right choice. 20 commend my colleagues for what they did. 21 So, I I will talk about the dime, which I 22 think we chose the right one. Number three, I 23 wish she weren't so frowning. I mean, it's like 24 she's not happy. 25 So, I think we have serenity in the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 84 1 one we chose. 2 congratulations, group. 3 with you. 4 5 I like it very much. So, And I'm honored to be CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Jeanne. Annelisa. 6 MEMBER PURDIE: Thank you, Mr. 7 Chairman. 8 gratitude to the Mint staff, to this Committee. 9 It's wonderful working with everyone, to the 10 artists who did an excellent job with all of 11 these designs. 12 I also want to extend my thanks and And I think that together, we all came 13 up with a pretty great portfolio. 14 having an impact for collectors and the public 15 overall. 16 I can see this There's this overarching theme of 17 movement throughout these portfolios that I think 18 works really well. 19 in suspended animation, and it fits with the 20 constant movement that we're experiencing in our 21 country as well. 22 No one is stayed, no one is Overall, very satisfied with the 23 portfolio. I am going to agree with Kellen in 24 that the Declaration of Independence obverse is 25 the only one that I'm still a bit lukewarm about www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 85 1 in terms of its resonance with the public, and 2 especially younger members of the public. 3 It's very well done. I like it. 4 could there be something else? 5 I'm not making any suggestions. 6 be tweaked a little bit, yes. 7 completely the people echoing the points about 8 how this could be received. 9 But And I don't know, But if it could But I understand It's very evocative of older designs, 10 which is great. 11 future-wise, it's still a little in the lukewarm 12 stage. 13 But in terms of moving forward Whatever Ms. Ruby Bridges wants, she 14 gets. So, I am perfectly happy to whatever she 15 likes for either one. 16 overall, I think that this is a beautiful 17 portfolio. 18 fruition. Those are great. And I'm excited to see this come to Thank you. 19 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Donald. 20 MEMBER SCARINCI: I'm ready. 22 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: I'm sure. 23 MEMBER SCARINCI: So, yeah. 21 But I'm ready. What I 24 like about one is that what people are calling 25 magic, I guess it was magic. Because that was www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 86 1 the first time in the modern world that a nation 2 formed a republic since the Roman Empire. 3 MEMBER SAUNDERS: And the Dutch. 4 MEMBER SCARINCI: The Dutch. 5 true. 6 republic. 7 the world. 8 more about the dime. 9 John's right, the Dutch did have a But it inspired our democracies around But I do want to talk a little bit The Phrygian cap -- and I have to 10 question Thomas Jefferson. 11 right, right? 12 He wasn't always And I'm not sure he was listened to. 13 Because from 1809 to 1837, the dime had a 14 Phrygian cap. 15 1916, the Barbers, the was Phrygian cap. 16 That's And then, again, from 1892 to And then, we go from there to the 17 winged Mercury, which the wings and the Mercury, 18 and that's one of your methods. 19 Phrygian cap. There is a 20 (Simultaneous speaking.) 21 MEMBER MORAN: 22 23 24 25 for number three. Save the Phrygian cap Give up. MEMBER SCARINCI: You give up. I know. I give up. You're exactly right. Yeah, I think, looking at it from a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 87 1 collector point of view and from the history of 2 our coinage, there's a certain symmetry to 3 retaining that Phrygian cap on the dime. 4 And we went through this period of the 5 dead presidents, which you constantly hear 6 collectors complaining about the dead presidents 7 a little less interesting than depictions of 8 Liberty on the earlier coins and on this series. 9 So, I would propose we re-vote, or 10 however you want to do it. 11 we reconsider the dime on the obverse. 12 13 But I would propose CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Donald. MEMBER SAUNDERS: Hi, John Saunders John. 14 15 here. 16 particularly when you had reverses as well, it 17 reminds me of something that I always like to 18 think about the coins, is we're sitting here and 19 we're studying them. 20 When you put them all up there together, We're looking at detailed pictures. 21 Every person can pick it up and look at it about 22 this quick, and spend it, or do something with 23 it. 24 25 So, to my mind, the first impression that you get from the coin when you look at it, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 88 1 is important. 2 we get to reverses, in that direction. 3 speaking, I think we killed it on the obverse. 4 And I'll have more comments when Generally I'm going to join the club that would 5 reconsider the dime. 6 better, but I like three. 7 about her expression that she looks a little bit 8 resentful or something. 9 I would like to kind of consider her expression 10 I liked number six even There is something If we do switch things, slightly, adjustment there. 11 But I think we killed it on the 12 obverses. 13 we originally picked, I'm happy with it. 14 Even if we go with the other dime that I don't think we did on the reverses. 15 I think when you flash up the reverses, we look 16 at them quickly, there's a couple of them that 17 don't look good to me. 18 obverses, we killed it. 19 But I think on the And put me in the dime 20 reconsideration, but that's nitpicking. 21 if we go with what's up there, that's fine too. 22 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 23 MEMBER HOARD: Thank you. I mean, Kellen. Well, thank you. I 24 really think we did quite well on several of the 25 designs. I love the Frederick Douglass, I love www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 89 1 the Suffrages, I love the Civil Rights. 2 And the dime, by the way, we got it 3 perfectly right. 4 overthink this. 5 simple design that works for the size, that has 6 the continuity with the Roosevelt Dime, that we 7 voted high consistent points every single time, 8 and this is the one that we should do. 9 really quite well done. 10 I think we don't need to It's a beautiful, stunning, The other designs are okay. And it's I can get 11 behind the one for the Constitution one. 12 it's a nice, classical depiction of Liberty. 13 that should be our quarter, which depicts Liberty 14 classically. 15 I think And But to have Liberty depicted in an 16 outdated style twice at the very front of our -- 17 at the defining front of our -- at the defining 18 coins of our portfolio, the ones that the public 19 is first going to encounter, that the news 20 headlines are going to be about, to do it in an 21 old-timey style twice I think is the wrong way to 22 go. 23 And I raised my concerns before about 24 the Declaration Quarter. I've even added on to 25 those previous concerns, this design was in the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 90 1 dime portfolio last time. 2 so easily transitioned to the Declaration one 3 this time, to me, is a sign that it really 4 doesn't have as much of a thematic tie as it 5 could have. 6 And the fact that it's It's a very lukewarm design and 7 doesn't clearly evoke the Declaration of 8 Independence as well as it could, because you can 9 transfer between portfolios so easily. 10 It's just kind of a generic design 11 that doesn't excite me and I think is, again, 12 thematically and visually confusing. 13 is why none of the people I talked to chose that 14 one either, of their own volition. 15 So, I think it's going to be one 16 that's going to be tepidly received. 17 little disappointed about that. 18 And which And I'm a I was hoping, as you guys know for the 19 statue one, and actually, what I say if we're 20 going to the half-dollar, is, I think we're 21 really missing out. 22 I would rather we not do the statue 23 design for the half-dollar at all. 24 the half-dollar is looking forward to the next 25 250 years and thinking ahead about how we can see www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 The theme of Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 91 1 this. 2 I think the Statute of Liberty 3 absolutely does not do that. 4 Liberty is, to me, a historically associated 5 design, thinking about something that happened a 6 hundred and fifty years ago at this point in our 7 country. 8 9 The Statue of It's a beautiful design. well in the half-dollar. It shows up But the woman and her 10 daughter, or the young girl walking, is the 11 perfect one that captures the emotion that 12 Annelisa was talking about. 13 walk forward. 14 That captures this And so, I think, if we're going to not 15 put the Statue of Liberty on the quarter, which I 16 think is inadvisable, we should put the family 17 walking. 18 and again and we've actually chosen to repeatedly 19 delay it until we got to this portfolio. 20 historically, it felt that one fit so well, in 21 terms of what our standard theme is. Which we have seen that portfolio time 22 Because And we can deviate from that theme if 23 we want to. But I think we'd be remiss not to 24 really consider doing her daughter walking, which 25 has received such consistent praise from most www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 92 1 members. 2 So, I think that's all I have to say 3 about that. 4 decently well. 5 is going to receive two in a row of themes that 6 were in style in the 1830s, but not so much at 7 this point now. 8 9 10 I think we really covered obverses I'm just not sure how the public As we look forward to innovative designs which capture historical themes, I'm a little lukewarm. 11 So, in general, I think we hit it out 12 of the park on some of them. 13 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you. Thank you very much. 14 When I was looking at these portfolios and trying 15 to think of the set, one thing that struck me. 16 We have seven coins, which means that the 17 Frederick Douglass Abolition coin is essentially 18 the pivot. It's in the center of all of these. 19 And the way that we have this set up 20 in a way at the moment, we have a progression of 21 Liberty's moving towards Frederick Douglass. 22 at the moment, we have Liberty's head, and then 23 we have Liberty's head and shoulders. 24 Liberty's near full body. 25 And And then, The two Liberties that we have on the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 93 1 quarters are facing to the right. 2 that we've selected, or at least received the 3 highest votes at the moment, is facing towards 4 the left. 5 And the dime And I think that, again, my preference 6 was for number three for various reasons. 7 now that I'm looking at this, I think having a 8 right-facing Liberty as part of that set would 9 tie those three Liberties together and the first 10 But parts of that, before the pivot, essentially. 11 So, one question I have. If we do 12 stay with number one as the selection -- although 13 we might reconsider number three a little bit 14 later on -- would it be possible to reverse head 15 from left-facing to right-facing? 16 MR. MENNA: So, that would then tie 17 in. This is Joseph Menna. 18 has made maybe a couple of comments suggesting -- 19 I think Kellen said too. 20 Chairman Van Alfen Kellen, in terms of old-timey, but by 21 virtually of all being done in a traditional 22 Western figurative arts style, there's all 23 essentially old-timey. 24 to your perspective, but I hear what you're 25 saying. And I'm not trying to vow www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 94 1 In terms of the dime, the illusions 2 made to the -- and I'm speaking with permission - 3 - I'm not speaking for the Mint or trying to 4 invalidate anyone's -- well, I am speaking for 5 the Mint but I'm not trying to invalidate 6 anyone's perspective. 7 The dime number one and the incumbent 8 references, aligning it with the similarity to 9 the Roosevelt Dime, not impugning the quality of 10 it. 11 There are constant references to the 12 similarity. 13 first impressions, people probably won't see this 14 any different than the Roosevelt Dime when 15 they're looking at it. 16 And to John's point about scale and In terms of the silhouette, and the 17 shape and the mass and its scale, whereas, I know 18 Dr. Val Alfen was talking about moving, or 19 turning number three around, possibly, or vice- 20 versa. I forget. 21 But yeah, but number three presents a 22 demeanor facing Britain, facing sunrise, demeanor 23 is almost identical to the portrait on the Peace 24 Dollar. 25 portraits. Very consistent with many other www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 95 1 But to Jeanne's point, her facial 2 expression is much less dour than that exists 3 actually on the Statue of Liberty. 4 With all due respect -- my 5 perspective, being former New Yorker, seeing a 6 lot, just like Dr. Van Alfen, and 7 compositionally, scale-wise, it bears stronger 8 thematic consistency with the top row of -- and a 9 cool thing is too, she looks forward with a kind 10 of peaceful resolution. 11 perspective -- just as Ms. Bridges does. 12 Kind of optimism -- my Ms. Bridges' design is amazing in that 13 the Norman Rockwell painting is very painful to 14 look at. 15 know who Bridges is, or that painting, being an 16 artist and a Rockwell fan. 17 reflections of a Saturday Evening Post coverage, 18 and stuff like that. 19 I don't remember a time that I didn't My grandparents have But here, she's presented 20 optimistically looking forward, just with the 21 personality that she presented to us very 22 graciously, and gracefully, yesterday. 23 24 25 So, I'm not trying to lobby. I'm just -- thank you. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Would it potentially www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 96 1 be possible to reverse number one so that Liberty 2 faces right instead of left? 3 MR. MENNA: Absolutely. 4 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay. Nevertheless, 5 even so, I think that there is more artistic 6 consistency with number three, I think, rather 7 than number one, on the dime, so that there is, 8 with the right-facing Liberty and the artistic 9 style, I think, that there would be more 10 cohesiveness than with that set of Liberties 11 before the pivot. 12 Now, after the pivots, I also saw the 13 possibility within the portfolios, because so 14 many of the obverses portrayed walking women that 15 and girls, that there could then be stylistic 16 cohesiveness by presenting walking figures, 17 which, obviously then, would tie in potentially 18 to the 1916 Walking Liberty Half-Dollar, which 19 remains one of the preeminent artistically 20 outstanding designs in U.S. numismatic history. 21 Now, as we have it at the moment, I'm 22 not seeing as much cohesiveness. I mean, I think 23 that each one of these designs, individually, is 24 very strong, very bold, and very compelling, but 25 they don't tie together quite as well. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And that, Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 97 1 for me, is a little bit of a concern. 2 sure the concern is shared by the rest of the 3 Committee. 4 I'm not But again, if we are thinking of this 5 as a set and possibly thinking of the Frederick 6 Douglass coin as a pivot between the Liberties on 7 the one side, and then the real-ish women and 8 girls that come on the other sides, or at least 9 potentially, then that might be something for us 10 to think about and consider a little bit more. 11 Let's have a bit more discussion about 12 the obverses at this point, now that we've all 13 had a chance to discuss this. 14 15 And so, John, I think your hand was raised first. 16 MEMBER SAUNDERS: Listening to what 17 Kellen said and what you just said, one thought 18 of possible change occurs to me, is to move the 19 Statue of Liberty to the quarter, to replace the 20 Liberty holding the star, or whatever you follow 21 it there. 22 Because that seems like it was, when 23 we voted on it, one that just barely won, as 24 opposed to something where there was a real 25 consistency. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 98 1 A Statue of Liberty face on a quarter, 2 the main circulating coin today, I think would be 3 good. 4 on the half-dollar, which I also like. 5 more for the Statue of Liberty there because I 6 thought we need a Statue of Liberty on a 7 circulating coin. And then, we could put the walking figures 8 9 I voted But if we move it to the quarter, we could go with a walking design there. So, that 10 would be my suggestion of a possible switch, or 11 possible change in the obverse designs. 12 Other than that, and as I've said 13 before, my preference in the dime is aligned with 14 what some of the group said -- not everybody said 15 -- torch 3. 16 those. 17 I still think we're killing it on MEMBER SCARINCI: You know, is it 18 possible that -- what I just noticed is, during 19 our lifetimes, we've never known anything other 20 than the Roosevelt Dime. 21 And when I look at Annelisa's redbook, 22 which I've been using the entire time, and I look 23 at the Roosevelt Dime, it's very possible that 24 the reason we liked design one is because it does 25 look like the Roosevelt Dime, at a glance. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 99 1 Somebody said that. It does. And I'm 2 wondering if the reason you want to have the 3 Liberty -- if we went with three, is the reason 4 you would want to change it to bust left, because 5 it reminds you more of the Roosevelt Dime? 6 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Well, we could 7 reverse number one so that she faces right. If 8 we adopt the other two Liberties for the quarters 9 that are now facing to the right, that there 10 would then be consistency across all three of the 11 Liberties facing right. 12 So, if we do adopt number one, and for 13 the quarters, adopt those Liberties as well, that 14 we have all three of the Liberties facing in the 15 same direction, towards Frederick Douglass. 16 And part of my preference for dime 17 obverse number three is that she is already 18 facing right and she also has stylistic 19 consistency with the other two quarter obverses. 20 MEMBER SCARINCI: Yeah. I think 21 wasn't speaking for me. I think really, now when 22 I really think about it hard, it was in my 23 comfort zone. 24 comfort zone, because it's all I've ever known. 25 It's all we've ever known. I think number one was in my Everybody here. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Even Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 100 1 you, Mike. 2 3 MEMBER MORAN: here. I'm the oldest one I did get Mercury Dimes in change. 4 MEMBER SCARINCI: The other thing I 5 wanted to say is -- two other things I want to 6 say. 7 it's either/or. One is, on the half-dollar, I really think 8 9 Right? I mean, the message is being lost here. I mean, and it's still a nice design, 10 right? The way we planned it with the torch and 11 the reverse. 12 But I'm kind of wondering if without 13 the hands passing the torch, then maybe if people 14 like the flame reverse, then we should really 15 consider changing the obverse and using the older 16 and the younger figures. 17 change the reverse. 18 Otherwise, we should So, whether we talk about it here and 19 change this, we talk about it there and change 20 that, I think that needs to be discussed a little 21 bit more. 22 And then, the final point I wanted to 23 make was to -- you know, Joe said something. 24 This was not a portfolio. 25 -- certainly not in my vision of what American I don't think this is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 101 1 2 coins should look like in the future. However, this portfolio, we're being 3 tasked by Congress with delivering new coin 4 designs for one year. 5 power and the authority to do that. 6 And they've given us the And I think playing it a little more 7 -- this portfolio is certainly a little more on 8 the conservative side. 9 Like, you didn't hear me jumping up 10 and down about more abstract -- this was not the 11 time or the place, Alan, I think to do, whether 12 we're going to go in the direction, whatever new 13 artistic direction we're going to take our 14 coinage, this series and this task that we were 15 given by Congress was not the time to experiment. 16 This is a more conservative portfolio for the 17 task we've been given by Congress. 18 So, there's nothing really here in the 19 portfolio that's particularly 21st Century. 20 it's not the direction I think we're heading for 21 future coin designs that we're going to be 22 looking at, that Joe is going to be sending us. 23 So, I just wanted to say that. 24 25 So, I'm not bothered. bothered, Colin. And I would be You would have me as your ally www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 102 1 on this. Right? 2 modernistic designs on U.S. coins. 3 Because I've been wanting more I'm done with the figural designs on 4 coins. I'm more looking to do what the rest of 5 the world is doing. 6 This is not what the rest of the world 7 is doing. Right? But I think it's the 8 conservative play, it's the right play, given the 9 task we've been assigned by Congress. 10 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 11 MEMBER MORAN: 12 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 13 MEMBER MORAN: Art. I'll speak up. Okay. Donald, I think we need 14 to hold on the Statue of Liberty for the half- 15 dollar, and I'll defend you on the reverse. 16 I've got some observations to make on that, but I 17 think for the obverse, we need to leave this 18 alone on the half-dollar. 19 20 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: And Kellen, your hand is raised. 21 MEMBER HOARD: Yeah, I just had a 22 quick point on the dime, which has come up 23 repeatedly. 24 For me, the main concern there, and 25 the reason I preferred number one, was just the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 103 1 2 size of it. Rather than being drawn to some 3 similarity to the Roosevelt Dime, what I see is 4 that Obverse 1 really kind of neatly compactly 5 brings in the head and the inscriptions tightly, 6 whereas in Obverse 3, we have these really tight 7 -- and I think it would end up actually looking 8 quite small on the dime. 9 The head would actually look -- I 10 mean, if you envision a dime in your hand, it 11 would actually look quite small. 12 be quite small, and just difficult to read, 13 especially for those that don't have the 20/20 14 eyesight that I do. The text would 15 (Simultaneous speaking.) 16 MEMBER HOARD: So, I just think that 17 one does quite well is that it has these kind of 18 larger design elements that are easier to access. 19 And, for that matter, I don't mind if they look 20 closer to Roosevelt times. 21 sparking collecting. 22 more closely at their pocket change. 23 it's just a neat design. 24 25 We're talking about I mean, getting people to I think With regard to Donald's comments, and not to prolong this here, I'm not looking for www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 104 1 21st Century designs, I'm looking for 20th 2 Century designs. 3 is actually our current selection for half- 4 dollar. 5 So, we have it in our conservative 6 portfolio. 7 portfolio. 8 9 And the design I'm looking for I just want it somewhere else in the So, to me, it wouldn't be necessarily a radical transformation, as much as doing 10 designs have gotten quite a few points elsewhere, 11 sorting it around. 12 semantic that went there. 13 But that's just a minor Anyway, so, yeah, I think the dime -- 14 we really nailed it with number one, in terms of 15 accessibility as well. 16 17 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: raised? Art, was your hand Yeah, Art, please. 18 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: 19 Bernstein. 20 not -- This is Art I'm not looking for trouble and I'm 21 (Simultaneous speaking.) 22 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: Just, Peter, you 23 had me thinking about the set as a set. 24 look at what's up there now, I notice the 25 Abolition order with Frederick Douglass is the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And as I Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 105 1 only design where we have a border. 2 All the other designs are free-flowing 3 on the face of the circle. 4 Douglass design has that distinctive edge around 5 it. 6 7 And Frederick To me, it looks out of place with the rest of the set. I just share that observation. 8 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 9 MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: 10 Capozzola. 11 unrelated comments. 12 Chris. Hi, this is Chris I wanted to make three totally So, one, in response to you, Peter, I 13 appreciate the idea of having those sort of the 14 early coins in this phase be right-facing. 15 not sure that it's necessary to mirror them left- 16 facing on the other side. 17 advocating flipping Ruby Bridges? 18 I'm So, were you CHAIR VAN ALFEN: No. For the second 19 half on the other side of Frederick Douglass, 20 what I had thought initially was having the 21 walking obverses, regardless of left-or right- 22 facing. 23 left, might be cool. 24 25 Although if they were all facing to the MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: Okay, okay. Second one, to Donald's point, I actually think that the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 106 1 reverse of the half-dollar is the place to 2 reexamine. 3 And as you know, I loved Reverse 6 on 4 the half-dollar. 5 obverse, there is a risk of turning the half- 6 dollar into a Statue of Liberty commemorative 7 coin by accident. 8 9 I think if that pairs with this And I think that narratively, Reverse 5, which people have talked about and got a lot 10 of points, is the better reverse in that case, 11 because it conveys the passing of the torch. 12 And there, I do think 5 if better than 13 5A because it passes left to right, from older to 14 younger. 15 And then, there was a third point -- 16 and I actually wanted to hear people's thoughts 17 on the border as well, and also of the star, the 18 delimiter between E. Pluribus Unum and the dates, 19 which seems oddly out of place for the group as a 20 whole, as a design element. 21 22 23 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: comments? Anyone else? Were there any other John. MEMBER SAUNDERS: I'd like to ask Joe. 24 I think the Frederick Douglass coin works without 25 that border line. And I think Art's right that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 107 1 it makes it a more consistent set to not have it 2 that -- Joe, what do you think it would be like 3 without the inner borderline? 4 MR. MENNA: This is Joseph Menna. 5 have to caution my comments to make sure that 6 this is in alignment with Mike Costello, my 7 supervisor, who knows more about metal than me. 8 9 But it's not really a raised border on the obverse. It's a raised circle. I think this 10 obverse and reverse deliberately work this way 11 together as a coin. 12 You know what I mean? They both have borders, both very 13 deliberately and, coincidentally, structured to 14 answer to each other. 15 character, so to speak, and the reverse is a 16 story behind the story. 17 18 The obverse is your main CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Any other comments? All right. 19 MEMBER MORAN: I promise this will be 20 it. 21 Frederick Douglass obverse. 22 Frederick Douglas in front of the inscriptions. 23 I I think we need to respect the artist in the His intent is to put It shows very effectively the way he's 24 done it, and I think we're over-designing on this 25 one when we do this. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 108 1 I agree with Joe that we have a 2 wonderful pairing here, the obverse and the 3 reverse. 4 about the inconsistency. 5 We need to leave it alone and not worry CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Anyone else? All 6 right, why don't we take a look at the reverses 7 now, the high-scoring reverses, as a group. 8 (Simultaneous speaking.) 9 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 10 again go around the table and offer some 11 individual comments, starting Mike. 12 MEMBER MORAN: All right. Let's Thank you, Peter. This 13 is Mike Moran. For what seems like -- too many 14 times. 15 where I think we need to make a change. 16 you look closely at number five, you'll see it is 17 the same torch from the Statue of Liberty that's 18 being passed. 19 what you've emphasized in number six, and yet, 20 with number six you miss the theme of, toward a 21 more perfect union. 22 Let's go to the half-dollar. That's And if So, you effectively incorporate I get the part about the education. 23 But to me, it'll always be, toward a more perfect 24 union. 25 exactly that. And the passing off of the torch implies www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 109 1 So, I really think we -- the vote was 2 reasonably close on those. 3 boat on this. 4 Liberty torch. 5 that torch. 6 I think we missed the I think you've got the Statue of Let's pick up the theme and pass Let's go back to the reverse on, I 7 believe it's the Constitution, the two of them. 8 Don't know what I think here. 9 the mic, I'll be done. 10 And when I pass I can live with each one of them, 11 quite honestly. 12 it again today, I think that is a unique design 13 for using the chair back. 14 that I like. 15 But yesterday, and I'll defend It has artistic merit And for the inquiring public, if they 16 look at it, what the hell is that? 17 it, they'll find out that it really does tell a 18 story that's very appropriate for the reverse of 19 this quarter. 20 MEMBER GELBERD: They dig into This is Sam Gelberd. 21 So, I think, to piggyback on what Mike was just 22 saying about the Constitution Quarter, I really 23 do love -- and I did vote primarily for -- I gave 24 more points to the reverse for the Constitution 25 Quarter with the back of George Washington's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 110 1 chair. 2 I just don't know if the American 3 public in our modern world is going to be patient 4 enough to try and study that and learn more about 5 it. 6 I think we the people, really bold, 7 really quick, I think they will get it a lot 8 faster. 9 that. I think more people would latch onto 10 Upon seeing the reverse of the 11 Abolition Quarter, I think that's going to tie in 12 very nicely with the big circle that we see 13 behind Frederick Douglass's head. 14 going to tie in very well if we go with that. 15 16 I think it's The Suffrage design we can talk about later, maybe not changing fonts. 17 The reverse of the Civil Rights 18 Quarter, I can live with that reverse, even 19 though I really did like a bridge of that, even 20 though we've got Ruby Bridges right on the front. 21 The dime, the reverse, I think, yeah, 22 having it with the Liberty-over-Tyranny, it's 23 just going to be wonderful to bookend with a 24 half-dollar. 25 Mike's comments about the torch on the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 111 1 back, because it is a passing of the torch, it's 2 supposed to bookend. 3 that was the top vote-getter. 4 going with the other one where the torch is being 5 passed. I really did like the one But I could see us I'd be okay with that. 6 But overall, again, phenomenal job. 7 And again, Mint, you guys did incredible work. 8 Thank you so much. 9 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, Sam. 10 going to skip over to Donald, because he has an 11 interview momentarily. 12 like to make some comments? 13 So, Donald, would you MEMBER SCARINCI: Yeah. I think as to 14 the half-dollar, I think it's an either/or 15 choice. 16 change the reverse. 17 dollar is the passing the torch to the next 18 generation. 19 Right? I'm We either change the obverse or But the theme of that half- And it did get a lot of votes. So, I 20 would recommend we change the reverse and do the 21 passing of the torch reverse for the half-dollar. 22 So, first, on the Declaration of 23 Independence, I'm hoping that I was probably a 24 little biased, I think, because there's 7,500 25 Fugio Cents that exist and I probably looked at www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 112 1 half of them over the course. 2 and hours and hours on these die varieties over a 3 lifetime. 4 I've spent hours So, that might be me. I don't know if 5 that's going to necessarily resonate, but I like 6 it. 7 that could just be my prejudice of it. I mean, so I just wanted to point out that 8 9 I think on the Constitution coin, you're right, the we-the-people needs to happen. 10 I do like the chair and I especially like what it 11 represents. 12 Franklin said about it. 13 thing. 14 And I especially like what Benjamin That is a very nerdy And I've looked at that chair, I've 15 spent time looking at that chair in Independence 16 Hall. 17 haven't seen it. 18 It is there. You should see it if you But I think it is going to require 19 some effort for people to even know what that is, 20 as opposed to just hitting them in the face with 21 we-the-people, which everybody knows. 22 And that could be just too easy. So, 23 I don't know if I'm advocating it or not, because 24 I kind of like the nerdy thing. 25 But otherwise, I think the reverses www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 113 1 are good. 2 the medal that we did and I can almost guarantee 3 after all these years, that the Mint's marketing 4 department is going to be re-marketing that medal 5 with this series. 6 7 So, I basically like what we did. I mean, it's pretty amazing. 8 9 I especially like -- I do like using CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thanks, Donald. Let's go back to Art. 10 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: This is Art 11 Bernstein. 12 Reverse, as a member representing the general 13 public, Sam, I don't care about the patience of 14 the public for that design. 15 On the discussion of the Constitution And they'll be okay. And I would advocate strongly for the 16 splat-and-rail design of that chair. 17 to the large review again, please? 18 Can we go I'm not sure, Mr. Chairman, if this is 19 the time. 20 point I would like to make my pitch for using the 21 word Abolition, rather than Abolitionism. 22 But for the Abolition Reverse, at some And what you'll see if you look at 23 that design, I think the word will actually 24 balance better if the word is a little bit 25 shorter and fits on its quarter of the design. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 114 1 With regard to the Suffrage Reverse, 2 I still see in that design what John pointed out. 3 To me, it looks like the weight is bearing down 4 on the people holding it up. 5 And I would just remind us, the second 6 place finisher in the polling was the Rosette 7 Badge, which I thought was a worthy design as 8 well. 9 10 11 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: this is Chris Capozzola. 13 thoughts together. All right. Sorry. So, Just pulling my I think if we could pull up one other 15 one that we discussed before, and that's 16 Declaration Reverse 07. 17 All right, Chris. 12 14 Thank you. That's the Liberty Bell. I'm trying to find an arc here, both 18 things that work with the obverse and the 19 reverse, but also that arc across the portfolio. 20 You've heard me many times, I think 21 the Fugio Cent is not going to speak to the 22 American public. 23 don't necessarily think that it works. 24 25 I like it as a design, I just But I do think that starting with the spark on the obverse and Liberty of the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 115 1 Declaration Quarter, and then turning it over to 2 Liberty, and then sort of loudly declared it to 3 the world with a recognizable image or icon, that 4 the Liberty Bell could be the solution there. 5 That then brings us to the 6 Constitution coin, which as a coin, I'm still not 7 sure it coheres. 8 traditional Liberty on the obverse, and then, 9 likely, would have the we-the-people very modern Right? 10 image on the reverse. 11 to be outvoted on that. 12 It has a very I like it, but I'm willing I just don't know that the chair 13 works. 14 the Fugio Cent, which I just think is going to be 15 a bridge too far for most people spending their 16 money. 17 But I would rather have the chair than The other thing I will say is, there 18 isn't an appeal thinking about text in the way 19 that iconic texts operate, and that's Liberty- 20 over-Tyranny. 21 the Declaration of Independence, and then we the 22 people, and moving on from there. 23 24 25 Then, either something related to So, there would be a way of thinking about how the texts all work together. And in terms of the half-dollar, I've www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 116 1 already said my piece. I think five should 2 replace six, even though I love six. 3 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 4 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: 5 Mr. Chairman. 6 Jeanne. Thank you, This is Jeanne Stevens-Sollman. What can I say? Well, to have to 7 rethink all of this, I have to go back to maybe 8 what I think are the positive reverses, which is 9 the reverse to Civil Rights Suffrage and 10 Abolition. 11 positive. 12 Those three I think were strong and So, I'm good with that. If we go back to Constitution and the 13 Declaration of Independence, where we seem to be 14 stuck right now, I do agree with Chris, the 15 Liberty Bell might be better than the Fugio coin. 16 I think nobody's going to really 17 understand that, unless they really paid 18 attention in their history classes. 19 would be okay for me to replace that. 20 So, that And then, to talk about the text, we- 21 the-people, as opposed to the chair. 22 Washington's chair looks very much like the 23 railing and the torch on the Liberty torch. 24 maybe that's what it's supposed to be, but the 25 chair, when I first saw it, I didn't really know www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 For me, And Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 117 1 what it was until I read about it. 2 So, for the general public, I think 3 they're going to see a nice design. 4 nice. It's very But I don't think it is explanatory. 5 And also, when we blow up that chair 6 back, I can't help but see this little gnome 7 ghost-type person looking over the sun. 8 is that what that is? 9 supposed to be? 10 I mean, is that what it's It's like a little person. maybe it's a mushroom. 11 I mean, Or I don't know. But it's kind of like the chair 12 doesn't mean so much to me as a chair back, but 13 at least of the torch. 14 not have that and to have we-the-people. 15 So, I would be happy to Even though that's a very powerful and 16 strong design, I'm not sure if that's the right 17 one. 18 comments. But I think it is. 19 20 Thank you. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you. Annelisa. 21 MEMBER PURDIE: 22 Chairman. 23 challenge. 24 but a challenge. 25 So, those are my Thank you, Mr. I agree that the reverses were a For many of us, a welcome challenge, And I agree with Jeanne, the design on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 118 1 the chair does look a little bit like the Kilroy- 2 was-here graffiti from World War II, if they 3 could zoom in closely on that. 4 But overall, the one reverse that I do 5 have some concerns about, especially with our 6 preference for the obverse, is the half-dollar, 7 in terms of the torch, the passing of the torch. 8 9 In terms of continuity, I'm wondering whether, with this design, we would need 10 something to indicate that this is Lady Liberty 11 herself passing the torch, or whether that 12 wouldn't register with -- people still like the 13 young hand, of course, but whether this is the 14 personification of Liberty overall, or if we're 15 going directly with Lady Liberty as a symbol 16 herself. 17 And in this case, this is where I 18 think it would work better with one of the 19 walking Liberty figures with a child, because 20 it's clear to see that. 21 So, I don't know. I'm still going 22 back and forth between that one. But I'm 23 wondering, and I defer to the Committee as well, 24 what we would think about something to indicate 25 that this is, because of the preferred obverse, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 119 1 that this is Lady Liberty herself, the Statue of 2 Liberty herself, passing her torch on. 3 But otherwise, with the reverses, 4 relatively content. 5 designs. 6 so towards motifs, rather than the repetition of 7 images. I like that our choices have gone more 8 9 I think these are beautiful And I think that overall, these would work well with what we've chosen. Thank you. 10 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you. 11 MEMBER SAUNDERS: I find that two of 12 the reverse designs don't work on a first 13 impression for me. 14 One is the chair. John. It's kind of like 15 modern art. 16 different people see at a first -- I see, like, 17 Roman arches and Aqueduct, or something like 18 that, when I first looked at it. 19 We've heard what three or four And then I looked at it a little 20 closer. 21 superhighway aqueduct drawing. 22 Is this supposed to be some sort of And then, once it's explained to me, 23 I like the chair. But you're not going to be 24 able to explain it to people. 25 pass the first-impression test. And it doesn't www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 120 1 The other one that I think really 2 fails the first-impression test is the Suffrage 3 thing. 4 I think that's going to be known as 5 the suffering quarter. I think, I mean, I don't 6 know what percentage of the American population 7 understands what Suffrage is. 8 if it's much over fifty percent. 9 this, it's going to be the suffering, oppressive I'd be surprised And they see 10 quarter. 11 done, that's the only one that I really would 12 feel bad putting my name. 13 So, I think we need to reexamine that 14 one. 15 there. 16 I think it's just, of everything we've I think there were some other good choices In terms of some of the specific swap- 17 outs, I was in favor of the Fugio to start with. 18 I'm a coin collector. 19 one of the first neocolonial coins I had. 20 I like Fugio Cents. I had But I have to agree with Chris. I 21 think the Liberty Bell does it better there. 22 as much as it pains me to agree with Don, I'm 23 perfectly happy to switch out the passing of the 24 torch for the stationary torch on that. 25 again, I think we're in trouble with our www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 But And Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 121 1 suffering quarter. 2 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 3 MEMBER HOARD: 4 All right. Thank you. Kellen. I actually think we got pretty close on the reverses here. 5 With regard to the Declaration of 6 Independence Quarter, I think we got to move away 7 from the Fugio design, for the main reason that I 8 think between this obverse, and now moving back 9 to the 1780s for the reverse, no one's going to 10 notice about the Declaration of Independence. 11 Sure, we say the words on there, but 12 I think the imagery is not going to line up with 13 the theme as well as we need. 14 more explicit. 15 We need to make it I think the Liberty Bell does that the 16 best and we should do the Liberty Bell for that 17 one. 18 connect with the theme close enough in people's 19 minds. 20 The Fugio Cent won't be resonant and won't With regard to the Constitution 21 Quarter, because we have that classical design on 22 the obverse of this very flowy Liberty, as nice 23 as it would be to have the we-the-people design, 24 it doesn't match up artistically or 25 stylistically. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 122 1 In the year and a half I've been on 2 this Committee now, we have spent countless hours 3 figuring out and projecting design because they 4 didn't match stylistically from obverse to 5 reverse. 6 And to me, these are about as 7 diametrically opposed as they could be, between 8 this we-the-people, and then the flowing hair on 9 the obverse. 10 And so, I really don't think they 11 match well, even though I would like to see we- 12 the-people on the quarter. 13 So, that lends me naturally to the 14 chair. Even though I think, again, it's not 15 well-tied to the Constitution theme, I think 16 people are going to be confused. 17 are our two options, I think we have to match 18 artistically above all else. 19 Am I able to see the other reverse 20 designs? 21 here. 22 and for everything else. 23 But if those I think we're zoomed in a little bit I don't know if we had them for the dime Yeah, I really like the Abolition one. 24 The Suffrage one I'm okay with, but I'd also be 25 okay with the pin. I think that works well. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 The Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 123 1 Civil Rights one's great. 2 With regard to the dime, I'm looking 3 at this on my laptop computer. 4 whiteboard is actually pretty accurate to coin 5 size. 6 And so, the Like, I compared up a dime against on 7 the laptop. And it's dime-sized for me and it is 8 not legible between the text and the design. 9 this 18mm surface, it's not going to be visible 10 to people. 11 of the obverse. 12 For And the same issue with number three So, I think the torch basically got 13 the exact same number of votes. 14 close one, and that would be much more visible. 15 I just, I can't see eagle. 16 It was a super And then, with regard to the half- 17 dollar, again, I'd support the obverse over the 18 reverse. 19 coming in blind as a member of the public, how 20 would they view the Statue of Liberty handing off 21 the torch here? 22 giving away her torch. 23 wouldn't be super clear on what that was. 24 25 To me, the handing off the torch, Like an animatronic Liberty The messaging, again, I really do like that first reverse design we chose -- that one on the left -- and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 124 1 would prefer that we did swap it out actually 2 with the walking women on the obverse. 3 that's much more clear and less confusing. 4 So, yeah, that's my two cents. 5 I think Thank you. 6 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right. Thank 7 you, Kellen. 8 trying to find continuity stylistic, as well as 9 thematically, across the set. 10 For myself, again, my concern is But obviously, as Kellen and Chris 11 also raised concerns, we also need to find some 12 stylistic continuity and congruity between the 13 obverses and the reverses. 14 I share a lot of the same concerns 15 that Chris and Kellen have with the just 16 tremendous disjunction, basically, between the 17 obverse that we have for the Liberty Quarters, 18 with the representations of Liberty, and then the 19 we-the-people-type designs. 20 that those work well at all together. 21 I just don't think I do think that the chair design is 22 absolutely wonderful. And I'm not particularly 23 concerned about the general public figuring this 24 out in the age of iPhones and the rest, where 25 they have the world's knowledge at their www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 125 1 fingertips. 2 The one thing that also occurred to me 3 about this design is that the founding fathers 4 are, for the most part, absent from these 5 portfolios. 6 one actual physical, as it were, connection to 7 the founding fathers within this portfolio. 8 9 And this chair would represent the So, I think that that connection, even though it is a little bit esoteric, might be 10 something that the public would ultimately come 11 to really enjoy, if not recognize. 12 In terms of the dime and the 13 Declaration of Independence Quarter, the eagle on 14 the dime, I think would work well with one and 15 two of the obverses that we've chosen. 16 The Fugio Cent was the high vote- 17 getter. 18 highest, by one point, was the eagle. 19 19th Century eagle, which would in some ways also 20 then work with the eagle of the dime here, so 21 that there would be some continuity there in 22 terms of theme, as well as with stylistic 23 continuity. 24 the Fugio Cent. 25 But if you'll recall, the second That's the Although I'm not totally opposed to In terms of the other designs, the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 126 1 Abolition, Suffrage, and Civil Rights, I think 2 that these work fairly well together. 3 the horizontal elements, particularly in the 4 Suffrage and Civil Rights coinage, I think looks 5 good. 6 John has raised about that particular design, 7 perhaps being the suffering quarter, is something 8 that we can continue to discuss. And it's Although, again, some of the concerns that 9 But I think just from an artistic 10 point, that these two reverses do work well 11 together. 12 Suffrage, the Rosette, I think would work equally 13 as well with that set. Although the runner-up for the 14 So, at this point, I suggest we take 15 a break. We will have some further discussion a 16 little bit later, but let's take about a ten- 17 minute break and come back and have further 18 discussion. 19 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 20 went off the record at 11:34 a.m. and resumed at 21 11:45 a.m.) 22 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, we're 23 back from our break. Before we get back to it, I 24 just would like to address, for the general 25 public that is watching who might have a question www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 127 1 about the way that we operate in terms of the 2 scores, and the way that we use the scores, this 3 is actually something that was devised -- how 4 long ago? 5 MR. WEINMAN: Actually, the very first 6 year of the CCAC. 7 developed by math professor Mitch Sanders, who 8 came up with the idea of a scoring system 9 0,1,2,3. 10 It's a process that was In the 0,1,2,3 scoring system, the key 11 is the scoring system is never meant to be a 12 dispositive vote. 13 interest in one design or another, as a means of 14 shuttling the conversation toward some sort of 15 conclusion. 16 It's simply a tool to measure So, I think if there's a confusion as 17 to if the Committee seem to have voted here, why 18 are they having a discussion? Because the 19 scoring is not really a vote. It literally is a 20 scoring. 21 That's why we give all the scores. 22 And the Committee can use that information anyway 23 they like. 24 25 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Greg. So, what I would like to do for the next 30, 40 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 128 1 minutes before our lunch break -- yes, Jennifer? 2 MS. WARREN: Hi, this is Jennifer 3 Warren. 4 actually say your name before you start talking? 5 Because there's an issue for the people watching, 6 that they don't know who's talking at times. 7 thank you. 8 9 Just a reminder, could everybody CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Peter Van Alfen. Thank you. So, I'm So, what I would like to do for 10 the next 30, 40 minutes before our lunch break is 11 look at -- we've now had an opportunity to look 12 at the obverse designs as a group, the reverse 13 designs as a group, and now I would like to 14 return to each of the individual coins and look 15 at the obverse and reverse pairing. 16 Discussed some of this already, and I 17 would like this just to be an open discussion. 18 So, we don't have to go around the table again 19 for that. 20 After our lunch break is when we will 21 then start making motions and working towards 22 recommendations. 23 So, at this point, again, I would like 24 just to have a general discussion about these 25 obverse-reverse designs for each of the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 129 1 individual coins, starting with the dime. 2 3 So, at this point if anybody would like to make a comment about this. 4 MEMBER GELBERD: Sam? Sam Gelberd. Just 5 wanted to point out with the dime reverse that 6 was the top vote-getter, I did not vote for this 7 one, full disclosure. 8 believe, with the torch. 9 I did, like, design one, I With that being said, if there's any 10 concern over how diminutive the dime is, and 11 having an eagle on there and how that might read, 12 I respectfully remind everyone that since 1792, 13 we had a pattern. 14 an eagle on it. 15 The half-disme, that did have And then, we also had half-dimes that 16 also had eagles on them as well. 17 mistaken, I believe when we were first coming up 18 with our monetary system, it was decided that the 19 silver coinage should have an eagle on the 20 reverse. 21 So, it's not out of place to have 22 that. 23 real, real tiny on a tiny coin. 24 overall, it will work. 25 If I'm not The words Liberty-over-Tyranny going to be But I think Even the font for one dime, it reminds www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 130 1 me of the Barber Coinage Series lettering. 2 it's something that collectors would latch on to. 3 However, I do think the general public, it's 4 going to be an easier transition with a changing 5 design for 80 years by that point, to have a 6 torch on the back. 7 So, So, that's all I just wanted to say. 8 I could live with the eagle, but do think we 9 should consider having the torch on there. 10 11 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right. Jeanne. Is there a camera down there? 12 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Thank you, 13 Mr. Chairman. 14 would like to just address our Obverse 1, where 15 she's facing left. 16 This is Jeanne Stevens-Sollman. I want people to know that this 17 particular portrait expresses America. 18 this is a diverse portrait. 19 any race, anything. 20 is a very positive image. 22 think about three. 23 25 All right. And I think that she I won't say what I Thank you. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: else? To me, It could be anybody, She's beautiful. 21 24 I Thank you. Anyone Yes, Kellen. MEMBER HOARD: Yes, this is Kellen www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 131 1 Hoard. First of all, thank you for using the 2 microphone. 3 it cuts out, it just sounds like you're endorsing 4 all of my ideas. It sometimes cuts out. And whenever So, I'm not sure -- 5 (Simultaneous speaking.) 6 MEMBER HOARD: No, just to go on Sam 7 as well here, I also think we should really have 8 the sign up on the whiteboard here kind of side- 9 by-side, and to consider that one strongly, for 10 the primary reason, as I earlier stated, I 11 actually think even though the half-disme did 12 exist, they didn't necessarily make it super- 13 readable. 14 I'm looking, I'm getting down there a little bit. 15 And whenever I'm at a coin show and The other reason, honestly, is that 16 because we have such as -- yeah, that was the one 17 there. 18 Again, because we are transitioning, 19 I think this is kind of a nice uptick to the 20 design, while ensuring that visual continuity as 21 well, make sure all the text is readable, that 22 it's accessible, that there's familiarity, but 23 that it also encourages people looking closer. 24 It also ties in thematically for a 25 larger purpose. What is the dime actually trying www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 132 1 to represent? 2 3 So, that's all I wanted to say on that front. Thank you. 4 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Anyone else? Let's 5 move on then to the Declaration of Independence 6 Quarter. 7 8 MS. STAFFORD: Do you want just the Declaration, or with the Constitution? 9 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 10 MS. STAFFORD: 11 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 12 Yeah. Okay. Yeah, just the Declaration. 13 This technology is very useful. 14 PARTICIPANT: 15 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 16 Any comments? 17 Not today. Yeah. All right. Jeanne. MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: I believe 18 earlier in our discussion -- oh, Jeanne Stevens- 19 Sollman, thank you -- Chris pointed out that the 20 Liberty Bell might be a better choice for the 21 reverse of this coin and for the Declaration of 22 Independence. 23 Because it would ring out and declare 24 that we are where we are. 25 be better. And I think it would Also, the eagle has, I think, better www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 133 1 2 than the Fugio coin. So, I would ask my colleagues to 3 really think about replacing it for either one or 4 the other, the eagle or the Liberty Bell. 5 And the other thing that I want while 6 I have the mic still, when we are looking at 7 these reverses -- for instance, the Frederick 8 Douglass obverse, the reverse of we-the-people -- 9 seems like it's not going to match. 10 Then, we have to think about the fact 11 that this is just a drawing. We're not looking 12 it projecting it as a sculpt. 13 is not going to read -- or it will read more 14 harmoniously to the obverses. I think the sculpt 15 So, when you are looking at these 16 designs, I think you need to look at the fact 17 that it's going to be sculpted, not drawn in 18 pencil or whatever, in these dark areas. 19 not going to be like that. 20 It's Thank you. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay. One thing I 21 will mention. 22 I believe that there's stakeholders on the 23 commission for the semiquincentennial. 24 correct, April? 25 This was brought to my attention. MS. STAFFORD: Is that Subject matter experts. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 134 1 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Subject matter 2 experts, were not all that thrilled by the idea 3 of the Liberty Bell, for what it's worth. 4 just wanted to mention it. 5 MS. STAFFORD: But Actually, we worked 6 with a representative at Independence Hall, as 7 well as some other subject matter experts for 8 that time period in the founding documents. 9 And they understood that for the 10 general public, like, there's an association with 11 the Liberty Bell and Americana. 12 But in terms of to the Declaration, it 13 was not necessarily there. 14 It's become a lore, as opposed to representative 15 of that document, or that particular time. 16 it actually was several stakeholders who flagged 17 that. 18 And I apologize. It did not ring out. So, I probably should 19 have included that earlier. 20 kind of as a general reference to our country, 21 and like that idea that they understand as a 22 symbol. 23 They did say, like, But in terms of representing a 24 particular time, place, document, conception, 25 that it wasn't what we thought it was. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 135 1 2 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you, April. MEMBER SCARINCI: To follow up, just Donald. 3 4 a question. 5 forgot this -- but the Liberty Bell didn't ring 6 in 1776? 7 So, the Liberty Bell -- and I just MS. STAFFORD: There's an objection 8 here. 9 meeting with this particular subject matter 10 And we do also have our notes from our expert. 11 So, there's long been a story that 12 rang out on July 8th. 13 information that comes -- like, the historians 14 actually say, no, it actually didn't. 15 But apparently, the more It's lore, as opposed to actuality. 16 It was actually hidden for quite some time. 17 the place where it hung was rebuilt. 18 It's hidden because of the war. And They 19 wanted to protect it. And then, it was rebuilt, 20 and so they actually think it's actually sometime 21 later that it was. 22 So, we did leave it in the portfolio 23 though, because we understood that in some cases 24 artists were using it as a kind of representative 25 idea. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 136 1 But I just wanted to make sure we 2 communicated that. 3 stakeholders that we spoke to just were, like, it 4 washed over them. 5 not that theme, right? 6 sure we shared that. 7 Because I think it was three Like, yeah, you know that's And so, we wanted to make MEMBER SCARINCI: 8 the lore. 9 York, and it rang in -- Yeah, but that is in That it rang here and it rang in New 10 MS. STAFFORD: Here in Biloxi. 11 MEMBER SCARINCI: Right. And just for 12 consistency, the rings of this design didn't 13 really happen until 1787. 14 So, the Fugio came out in 1787 as a 15 private contractor, and personally designed by 16 Benjamin Franklin. 17 18 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Kellen? 19 MEMBER HOARD: 20 down. 21 call on me. 22 Your hand raised, Oh, I put my hand back But I'm happy to speak if you're going to Really quick comment here is I 23 actually think the bell is still a way that we 24 should consider going, for the main reason, as 25 mentioned earlier, that I'm not sure how the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 137 1 chain design or, for that matter, the eagle 2 design, are as clearly reminiscent and emblematic 3 of the Declaration of Independence and that time 4 period, in the mind of the American people, as is 5 the bell. 6 And I think the bell and its 7 associated lore is associated, I'm thinking the 8 mind of the people will make this obverse design 9 at least somewhat more bearable for me. 10 So, yeah, I think the bell, it 11 captures the American spirit and has this 12 metaphorical meaning of this ongoing quest for 13 independence, ongoing read, and so on. 14 you. 15 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank Any other comments 16 on the Declaration of Independence Quarter? 17 Sam? 18 MEMBER GELBERD: Sorry. 19 Sam Gelberd. 20 lobby for the Heraldic Eagle Reverse. 21 Oh, Yeah, this is Just one last chance for me to If the subject matter experts were not 22 thrilled with the Liberty Bell, I'm okay with 23 that. 24 it is instantly recognizable by the public. 25 think it would resonate well -- pardon the pun -- We could forego that, even though I think www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 138 1 with the American public. 2 The linked chains. Just to point out 3 to everyone, this was -- and I'm not trying to 4 upset EAC, or Early American Copper Collectors, 5 in any way -- but please understand, this design 6 was really popularized in the mid-1970s by 7 replicas of the Continental Currency dollars, for 8 lack of a better denominational term. 9 concerned that it may be a bit of a flatter 10 I'm a bit design. 11 Even though some people could 12 recognize it, it's not without some controversy, 13 when Ben Franklin introduced this. 14 also seen on Continental Currency paper that was 15 also issued, or Continentals. 16 And it was Some people, there was a bit of uproar 17 that the linked chains aren't necessarily showing 18 the strength of the colonist at that time, but 19 almost slavery, or imprisonment. 20 something to consider. 21 So, that's Again, I go back to the eagle, only 22 because it was -- and we do have a lot of eagles 23 on our coins, of course, and I'm a huge fan of 24 them. 25 It's the very first quarter we're www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 139 1 going to roll out in 2026. 2 to absolutely love seeing that particular eagle 3 on the back of an American quarter again. 4 Collectors are going So, I just wanted to make one more 5 push for that. 6 very well as a design, coupled with the obverse 7 that was the top vote-getter. 8 9 I really think it would go over CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you. Thank you, Sam. Chris. 10 MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: 11 Capozzola. Microphone coming. 12 briefly. 13 subject matter experts. 14 inaccurate. This is Chris Just very I certainly take the point of the We don't want to be 15 And I think that if the Liberty Bell 16 is doing a kind of general work of conveying the 17 founding, then it is still accurate. 18 If the CCAC felt that that was a 19 little too loosey-goosey, the more accurate 20 historical one would be actually going back. 21 was up there earlier, Reverse 03A, Independence 22 Hall, which would doubtless be accurate. 23 have some resonance with other bicentennial and 24 150th coinage. 25 It It does And it also gives an arc of text that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 140 1 would connect Liberty-over-Tyranny to Liberty- 2 and-the-pursuit-of-happiness, and maybe we-the- 3 people. 4 think it should stay on the table. So, I'm not advocating for it, but I 5 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 6 right. 7 Quarter. 8 All right. All right, any comments? MEMBER SAUNDERS: Crickets. Can we see some other top vote-getter reverses? 11 12 All Let's move on then to the Constitution 9 10 Anyone else? CHAIR VAN ALFEN: For this? Yeah. Greg, could you? 13 MR. WEINMAN: Yeah. So, if you want 14 to pull up -- the top vote getters were Reverse 15 7, Reverse 9. 16 MS. STAFFORD: 17 MR. WEINMAN: 18 MS. STAFFORD: 19 MR. WEINMAN: 20 Reverse 7 is up there. Reverse 9. Reverse 9 is up there. Reverse 2. And finally, Reverse 11. 21 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right. 22 MEMBER SAUNDERS: John Saunders here. 23 I like we-the-people. I think Kellen's point, it 24 kind of stylistically clashes with the obverse. 25 I think the Liberty Hall, which harkens back to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 141 1 the bicentennial fifty-cent piece, goes well with 2 it. I think the oak goes okay with it too. 3 So, while I was in favor of we-the- 4 people, I like that design a lot, I think the 5 other two go with it a little bit better. 6 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 7 MEMBER GELBERD: Anyone else? Sam Gelberd. Sam. Again, 8 I did vote for the chair back reverse for this 9 coin and I do think it complements the obverse 10 very well. 11 Again, with the need for instant 12 gratification in America, yeah, we do have cell 13 phones readily available, computers, people can 14 look it up. 15 wonderfully teachable moment using the chair 16 back, ultimately. 17 And again, yeah, I do think it's a That is my favorite design, compared 18 with this particular obverse. 19 in the stylistic script with the quill, it's just 20 not going to match up with that obverse. 21 The we-the-people, I mean, even the oak tree is workable, 22 Independence Hall. 23 Independence Hall before, but it is Declaration 24 of Independence. 25 Again, we've seen Very historically accurate. Ultimately though, I think the chair www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 142 1 back is the design we should go with, paired with 2 this particular obverse. 3 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 4 Anyone else? 5 please. All right, the Abolition Quarter, 6 MS. STAFFORD: 7 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 8 MEMBER HOARD: 9 Thank you, Sam. Kellen. Oh, Kellen. Yes. I just have a question for the Committee on this one, actually. Because 10 again, 11 design versus making it pleasant looking for the 12 public. 13 reasons for or against designs who -- because it 14 got additional number of point and I was 15 wondering what people's thoughts were, either 16 direction. 17 18 I'm pretty split on matching our previous I'm wondering if we could speak to CHAIR VAN ALFEN: we-the-people. Design number two is Is that correct? 19 MEMBER HOARD: The oak tree. 20 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Yeah. Oh, the oak tree. 21 Would anyone like to answer Kellen's question? 22 Yeah, Jeanne. 23 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: 24 Stevens-Sollman here. 25 the oak tree. Jeanne Kellen, we-the-people as You know, we're looking at a real www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 143 1 strong design to go with this Liberty. 2 don't think it's strong. 3 weak design. 4 It's just nice. 5 And I I think it's a very It's nice, but that's all it is. We want great. And I think we have 6 great with the chair and we have great with the 7 feather. 8 9 And if we look at the feather -- and some people think it's not going to match what 10 the Liberty -- if you just take those dark areas 11 away and think of them as being sculpted and not 12 dark, I think it will match. 13 And I think Joe might be able to help 14 us out a little bit to understand how this is 15 going to translate into a sculpt. 16 is just ordinary. 17 But the tree Thank you. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Jeanne. 18 I would actually welcome Joe's comments on how 19 that would be sculpted, the we-the-people, if 20 you'd like to -- 21 MR. MENNA: This is Joseph Menna. 22 you see a border with incused text. 23 parchment, the white above the parchment, and 24 possibly off to the left end, definitely above, 25 would also be polished, parchment would be www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 The So, Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 144 1 sculpted, the letters would be raised with same 2 dimensionality that they have in the drawing. 3 Those would be sidewalls. 4 black would be essentially sidewalls, 5 understanding it would still have to be drafted 6 along the other areas, but would still pop very 7 nicely. 8 9 What's in And the feather would simply, as Jeanne said, be sculpted, arched over. And 10 there's nothing U.S. Mint sculptors can't sculpt. 11 And I don't mean necessarily to say that glibly. 12 But a lot of times when we're looking 13 at coins, we used to have prescriptions against 14 using tone, period. 15 years ago. 16 Like, I don't know, fifteen But with the current artistic infusion 17 program -- and I don't want to speak on Roger's 18 behalf, April's behalf -- it felt like we all 19 kind of felt like we're already throwing so much 20 at them. 21 stuff that we would deal with and sculpt anyway 22 to confuse things, but it's very easy to respond 23 only graphically to these images. 24 one, but the elegantly sculpted obverse. 25 And getting too heavy on the tone Not only this People tend to look at pictures www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 145 1 instead. Not the Committee members, but a lot of 2 people look at pictures instead of coin designs. 3 4 But they always think about them as Jeanne and I do, dimensionally, and Michael. 5 MS. STAFFORD: I think the question 6 is, compositionally, in two dimensions, the ease 7 of jarring. 8 they work together stylistically? 9 But in sculpt, in bio-relief, will MR. MENNA: I'm sorry. Yeah, I would 10 document how I misunderstood. 11 graphic nature of it, it's a quarter reverse, 12 super-low relief, be subtle. 13 marry up with the elegance of the obverse, the 14 sculptural treatment, if that makes sense. 15 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 16 Anyone else? 17 the Abolition Quarter. 18 All right. MS. STAFFORD: No, the bold It will actually Thank you, Joe. Then, let's move on to At any point, did you 19 want to see those two quarters together to see 20 the relationship, or -- 21 22 23 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: a time. We'll just do one at Yeah. All right, any comments? And I 24 believe that we will be taking up the 25 Abolitionism versus Abolition issue after lunch www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 146 1 when we go to make motions on this. 2 comments or questions on this then? 3 Any other This is probably the easiest one. 4 let's move on then to Suffrage. 5 comments? Oh, Art. 6 So, All right, any Yes. MEMBER BERNSTEIN: This is Art 7 Bernstein. I would make a pitch for the Rosette 8 design, which was one of the top vote-getters as 9 well. And if we were to go with that, as I 10 mentioned yesterday, there are other phrases that 11 would be appropriate to go inside the Rosette. 12 13 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Anyone else? Annelisa. 14 MEMBER PURDIE: Thank you, Mr. 15 Chairman. 16 echo that with Art. 17 high vote-getter for me. 18 easily amendable in terms of a slogan in the 19 middle. 20 subject matter experts said about whether or not 21 this would be a universal symbol of Suffrage and 22 the controversy around that. 23 This is Annelisa Purdie again. I will I also, the Rosette was the I think that it's I did take into consideration what the But in terms of the overall coin, I do 24 think that it works well and I do think that it 25 would be a potential conversation piece to lead www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 147 1 to the discussion of many symbols of Suffrage 2 just being one of them. 3 For the hands, there is a film from 4 1955 called Land of the Pharaohs, with Joan 5 Collins from Warner Bros. 6 And in that film -- I'm going to be 7 very brief -- there is a very complex set of -- 8 it takes place in ancient Egypt -- of tombs that 9 close on a lock. 10 This reminds me of that film. It 11 looks like the weight is pressing down on the 12 various hands, rather than them holding it up 13 together and keeping it afloat. 14 And with the overall design of the 15 coin, again considering that this is going to be 16 on a quarter, I'm not sure how well that's going 17 to translate once it's actually minted. 18 I think that the detail is great. And 19 the little hand reaching up there, also safety 20 concerns. 21 doesn't seem as if it's being held up as much as 22 it's pushing down. 23 But the message is there but it And in terms of continuity as well 24 with the obverse of this particular quarter, 25 there isn't a Rosette on the outfit of the woman www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 148 1 herself. So, again, opportunity for continuity, 2 but putting that in, putting the Rosette back out 3 there. Thank you. 4 5 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Anyone else? 6 All right. Thank you, Annelisa. Oh, it's John. MEMBER SAUNDERS: Yes. If you shrink the 7 fixtures down in size, like when we put a whole 8 bunch of them up there, it's even more so. 9 I mean, you see Suffrage and hands, is 10 all you see. 11 forth. 12 13 You don't see the words and so So, I would echo what Annelisa said. And I think I may have seen that film. 14 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Donald. Yeah. 15 MEMBER SCARINCI: I mean, as a medal, 16 it's a gorgeous medal. 17 of our better medals. 18 John was saying, that's on a dollar-sized 19 planchet, as opposed to a quarter-sized planchet. 20 I mean, I think it's one But the medal, as what So, that could be an issue. But if we 21 went with the Rosette, I mean, I think what we 22 heard yesterday is that there was no clear -- if 23 this was the Rosette that they adopted and used, 24 then it would be a no-brainer. 25 What makes it a little more www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 149 1 complicated is that we were told yesterday this 2 wasn't the commonly accepted symbol for Suffrage. 3 And if we did do this, if we did use 4 the Rosette, we would need to put the word 5 Suffrage in the flag, which kind of -- I don't 6 know that that works on a flag. 7 that you can change slogans on the flag. 8 9 I don't know So, on that basis you can't have the same -- I mean, it just doesn't work. And the 10 word Suffrage should be somewhere on this coin. 11 That's what people identify with. 12 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you. 13 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Jeanne 14 Stevens-Sollman here. I think we're looking at 15 the Suffrage Reverse as a glass half-full, half- 16 empty. So, we can interpret it in either way. 17 Listen, this was horrible. Seventy- 18 two years, seventy-three years, we were trying to 19 get the vote. 20 women. 21 And it was. This was an oppressive time for And yes, it looks like it's bearing down. And it is. 22 So, I think that we have a great 23 opportunity to say something about Suffrage. 24 we say this Rosette is just another accessory to 25 what was going on. But Suffrage is immense. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 If Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 150 1 2 I hope that this conveys what it really is and was. Thank you. 3 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 4 MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: Chris. Chris Capozzola. 5 So, a couple of points. 6 I think we should stick with 01A. 7 the silhouette figures elsewhere, so I don't 8 think we need it. 9 First, on the obverses, We didn't do And also, once you see all the 10 obverses in a row, there's a way in which the 11 very big E. Pluribus Unum works well with the 12 other quarter obverses. 13 There's another solution. 14 with the Rosette -- and there is another possible 15 solution -- I think it would be accurate 16 historically, but we need to confirm this from 17 the subject matter experts, her flag at the word 18 liberty. 19 If we went And then, on the reverse, it could be 20 Suffrage and quarter-dollar. 21 turn the abstract liberties of the first two 22 quarters, into an actual woman marching for 23 liberty, and fits in a kind of arc there. 24 25 And that would then I'm not necessarily advocating that, I'm just putting that possibility out there. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 151 1 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: 2 votes. 3 And that's what we need to convey. It's for It's not for liberty, it is for voting. 4 This is a special time in our history. 5 We are marching for liberty in other coins. 6 we are marching for votes. 7 vote. 8 9 10 But For the privilege to And we have to say that in this coin, somehow. But to say Liberty and the flag -- and actually, I don't think that -- 11 MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: This is Chris. 12 Jeanne, it may also be accurate historically that 13 her bound would have carried the word, Suffrage. 14 Right? 15 the two versions of votes for women, which may be 16 only in the drawing, but they pop. 17 more than the images. 18 concerned about that. Which would then -- I'm trying to avoid 19 20 The words pop And so, I want to be CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Alright, your hand was raised. 21 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: This is Art 22 Bernstein. I just wanted to correct something 23 with Donald. 24 use the word Suffrage inside the Rosette. 25 you would have votes for women on the obverse. Donald, my suggestion was that we www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So, Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 152 1 And on the reverse, there were several phrases 2 that used the word Suffrage, that would be 3 appropriate for that design. 4 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Any other comments? 5 All right, onto the Civil Rights Quarter. 6 Comments? 7 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: 8 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 9 That is good. I think we're mostly fine with this. 10 MEMBER GELBERD: It's good. Yeah, Sam, yes. Yeah, I'm sorry. 11 Just one thing I wanted to add. 12 Gelberd. 13 Joe. This is Sam And this may be a question more for 14 The lettering around the periphery, 15 should we consider doing that incuse, or sunk in, 16 as opposed to bas relief or raised? 17 like to know your thoughts. 18 Just would I know we-shall-overcome is going to 19 be incused. So, maybe that wouldn't go. 20 your thoughts on maybe switching those? 21 want to see -- 22 MR. MENNA: 23 MEMBER GELBERD: 24 MR. MENNA: 25 This is Joseph Menna. But Just Thank you. Yeah. You got that? No, I got you. We don't incuse into www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 153 1 field. That's a field, in terms of border that's 2 not raised. 3 Thank you. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right. 4 let's wrap it up with the half-dollar. 5 thank you. 6 7 MR. WEINMAN: and 06? Then, Yes, Did you put up 05, 05A, Reverse 05, 05A? 8 MS. STAFFORD: 9 MR. WEINMAN: 06 is up there. Yep. 10 MS. STAFFORD: 11 MR. WEINMAN: 12 MS. STAFFORD: 13 MR. WEINMAN: 14 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Any comments? MEMBER SCARINCI: If we're not going 15 And 05A is up there. Yep. Is 03 up top? Yep, that's it. Six being the big -- Donald. 16 17 to change the obverse, we need to change the 18 reverse. 19 it makes a great Statue of Liberty coin. 20 that's what it is. 21 that coin. 22 Right? Because the way we have it now, But There's no other message in It's the Statue of Liberty. And the reverse -- I think 23 particularly the second one -- is the better 24 reverse because the E. Pluribus Unum is by the 25 hand instead of muddling up the slogan on the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 154 1 coin. 2 So, I think very strongly we need to 3 change this. I mean, I understand why everybody 4 likes it, but in the context of the portfolio and 5 the context of what we're trying to do, we're not 6 trying to do a Statue of Liberty coin. 7 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Anyone else? 8 MEMBER SAUNDERS: I agree with Don. 9 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Oh. 10 John. Oh, Kellen. 11 Thank you, Yes, your hand is raised. MEMBER HOARD: Yeah, I agree with 12 Donald as well here. To the second reverse, and 13 passing the torch and to the women walking on the 14 obverse. 15 issues. 16 I think that resolves all of our CHAIR VAN ALFEN: This is good. And 17 just to be clear, your suggestion, the women 18 walking, or the walking obverse, one of the 19 walking obverses, instead of the -- yeah, there 20 you go. 21 MEMBER HOARD: 22 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 23 MR. WEINMAN: 24 25 That's right. Okay, thank you. 01 and 01B we talked about years ago. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Right. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Thank you. Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 155 1 Any other comments? 2 All right, Annelisa. MEMBER PURDIE: Thank you, Mr. 3 Chairman. 4 actually thinking about your comments earlier, in 5 terms of continuity and how Frederick Douglass is 6 right in the middle of this portfolio and between 7 past and future with this coin. 8 9 This is Annelisa Purdie. I was I love the Statue of Liberty on anything. I think it evokes a certain feeling in 10 all of us and understandably so. 11 the message and moving forward, even with the 12 passing of the torch, I do think that the Lady 13 Liberty walking with the child does work much 14 better. 15 But in terms of And I think that it would create a 16 very clear delineation between the beginning 17 where we started out as a country, and where 18 we're moving forward to. 19 With the Statue of Liberty on the 20 half-dollar as the last coin in this set, it is a 21 beautiful coin, stylistically. 22 But in terms of what we're going for 23 with the semi-Q set, it doesn't quite hit the 24 mark the same way that Liberty walking does. 25 And again, with the hand passing the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 156 1 torch, were her robes there, the Statue of 2 Liberty herself, it would make better stylistic 3 sense. 4 someone passing it on to a child and saying, 5 here, you're going on to the next generation. 6 And it works well. But here, it serves the better purpose of 7 So, putting it out again for one, that 8 we go with one of the walking designs. 9 you. 10 11 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank Anyone else? Yes. 12 MEMBER GELBERD: This is Sam Gelberd. 13 Yeah, we run the risk of making a Statue of 14 Liberty commemorative again. 15 1986, guys. 16 We did that in The obverse, I do think it should be 17 either Obverse 1 or 1B. 18 ultimately, if only to avoid having another 19 Statue of Liberty commemorative coin. 20 again, meets the mark. 22 really recognize it. 23 design. 25 I'd be fine with either, It is the Statue of Liberty obverse, 21 24 Sam. It is bold, people would Instantly recognizable But if we are passing the torch, as we're trying to show with the last quarter in the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 157 1 design, the reverse I think could stay. 2 think we need to go with Obverse 1 or 1B, just 3 for the reasons already stated. 4 5 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: you. Jeanne. 6 But I do Thank you. All right, thank Yes. MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Jeanne 7 Stevens-Sollman here. And if we do go with the 8 walking Liberty with the child, and a torch for 9 the reverse passing of the torch, then we have to 10 reconsider B, because she has a torch. 11 want to replicate or repeat that. We don't 12 So, I would recommend Reverse 1. 13 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Any other comments? MEMBER SCARINCI: So, I think the coin 14 Donald. 15 16 you're referring to was a gold commemorative, 17 1986. 18 And certainly a beautiful coin. So, 19 I have to say, this coin sold almost 100,000. 20 There were almost 100,000 of these minted. 21 was very popular in its time, and in large part 22 because of the Statue. 23 the Statue of Liberty design on the obverse. 24 25 It Because of the face of And I think what we're doing is we're kind of reversing it. If we're going to use the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 158 1 standing figures and the flame -- the top of the 2 torch -- the top of the torch is recognizable to 3 some degree, but to a lesser degree than the 4 obverse of Liberty would be. 5 And what we're talking about is the 6 passing to the next generation. What's really 7 what the theme here is. 8 express that? 9 especially based on the gold coin we issued and So, how do you best And the more powerful coin, 10 the high mintage of it, it was a very popular 11 design. 12 And I think this would be a very 13 popular design with Liberty on the obverse and 14 the hands passing the torch on the reverse, as 15 opposed to flipping that. 16 Because what you're doing is, you're 17 flipping that. 18 Statue of Liberty, or an element of the Statue of 19 Liberty, on the reverse. 20 Right? You're putting the And then, we're going to have to deal 21 with the kid carrying the torch on the obverse, 22 which a number of people have expressed some 23 concern about. 24 25 So, I personally think that the right pairing here is Liberty on the obverse, and then www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 159 1 the hands underneath. 2 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 3 MEMBER GELBERD: Sam? Just real quick. 4 Donald, did you want to clarify? 5 one at the bottom. Correct? 6 MEMBER SCARINCI: 7 MEMBER GELBERD: 8 the very last one? 9 10 01A, the last 01B. On the bottom row, Is that -- MEMBER SCARINCI: Well, it could be either of the two on the last row. 11 MEMBER GELBERD: Okay. You mentioned 12 E. Pluribus Unum may be interfering with the 13 lettering? 14 That's why I thought -MEMBER SCARINCI: Oh yeah. As between 15 the two, I think this one's better because the E. 16 Pluribus Unum kind of clutters up the words here, 17 but it doesn't really have any impact here on the 18 words. 19 preference would be this and this. 20 So, you get the words in two. MEMBER GELBERD: No, but I agree. 21 Yeah, that reverse would work well. 22 pairing. 23 So, my It's a good Thank you. MEMBER SAUNDERS: I just wanted to 24 point out -- this is John Saunders here -- what 25 I'd said earlier. The Statue of Liberty coin had www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 160 1 a $75 melt value, or $80 melt value, when it was 2 issued. 3 And with a markup it was somewhat 4 affordable, but it still is expensive. 5 would have $600 worth of gold, and you just 6 couldn't do it. 7 Today, it And I think it would go over well to 8 have a circulating coin with the Statue of 9 Liberty on it that's basically available for $.50 10 for somebody. 11 And to the extent we would love to see 12 $.50 back in circulation like they were before 13 1964, I think that's a great enough design that 14 it might even help the $.50 piece denomination as 15 well. 16 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Any other comment? 17 All right, I think we are ready for lunch. 18 will take an hour lunch. 19 at 1:30 to make our recommendations. 20 We We will refuel, be back (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 21 went off the record at 12:33 p.m. and resumed at 22 1:30 p.m.) 23 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, thank you 24 very much, Jennifer. This is Peter Van Alfen. 25 We are now back from lunch. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 161 1 And at this time, I would like the 2 committee to start moving towards recommendations 3 for these 2026 Semiquincentennial coinage. 4 Now, I think if we try to do motions 5 for all seven coinages simultaneously, things 6 will get a little too complicated. 7 So what I would like to do is move 8 through each one of the coins separately, and we 9 will then have motions and discussions on each 10 one of those individual coins, as we move through 11 these portfolios. 12 So, I would now like to begin with the 13 2026 dime. And at this point, I would be more 14 than happy to take any motions. 15 (Simultaneous speaking.) 16 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Yes. 17 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Do we have any 18 visuals? 19 20 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Yes, they're coming momentarily. 21 (Pause.) 22 MS. WARREN: Kellen has his hand up. 23 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, Kellen, 24 25 your hand is raised? MEMBER HOARD: I just had a quick www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 162 1 question, actually. 2 actually both the designs, the obverse designs 3 and the popular and both the reverse designs, 4 there's been discussion of suggesting some 5 flipping. 6 7 I know you had visions of flipping the head, or some different elements. 8 9 I'm wondering, you know, for Would you prefer that we go through and recommend a design first, then afterward make 10 subsequent motions, or would you like to get it 11 all done in one packaged motion? 12 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Identify an obverse 13 and reverse design for recommendation first, and 14 then any modifications to that design can be 15 subsequent motions, yeah. 16 MEMBER HOARD: Thank you. 17 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: So on the dime for 18 the 2026 Semiquincentennial program, do we have 19 any motions from the committee? 20 Jeanne, your hand is raised. 21 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Thank you, Mr. 22 Chairman. 23 This is Jeanne Stevens-Sollman. 24 going to move that we recommend obverse 1, is 25 that 1? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I'm Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 163 1 2 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: The one facing the left, is that correct? 3 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Other side, 4 yes. And, I would like to have reverse 1, the 5 one on the left. 6 7 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: That is the eagle, is that correct? 8 9 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: That's my recommendation. 10 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay, so we have a 11 motion from Jeanne, to recommend obverse 1, and 12 reverse 3, which is what you see on the screen at 13 the moment. 14 Is there a second on this motion? 15 (Simultaneous speaking.) 16 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Oh, I'm sorry, 1A. 17 Okay, there we go. 18 All right, so the motion is to 19 recommend obverse 1A and reverse 3A. 20 second on this motion? 21 22 Is there a MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: This is Chris Capozzola. 23 I'll second the motion. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, Chris has 24 seconded the motion. 25 discussion? So, is there any www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 164 1 Kellen, yes, your hand is raised. 2 MEMBER HOARD: Thank you, this is 3 4 Kellen Hoard. And it feels, I don't think this is 5 right, but I'd like to offer a friendly amendment 6 for the other reverse, which I imagine isn't how 7 this motion works, but. 8 9 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Right, it would be out of order. We have on the table at the 10 moment, this obverse and this reverse. 11 focus on this for the moment. So, let's 12 Is there any discussion? Comments? 13 All right, then let's vote. All those 14 in favor of this motion to adopt obverse 1A and 15 reverse 3A for the 2026 Semiquincentennial dime. 16 I think it would be best if we do this 17 by hand actually, rather than by voice vote. 18 all those in favor, raise your hand. 19 20 What do we have, three? So All right. Four, no three. 21 MS. WARREN: Kellen is the fourth. 22 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, so that's 23 24 25 four in favor? MS. WARREN: Hands up. One, two, three, four, five. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 165 1 2 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, five in favor. 3 4 All those opposed, please raise your hand. 5 (Hands raised.) 6 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 7 opposed. 8 9 All right, five MR. WEINMAN: I believe that the chair breaks a tie. 10 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Well, I voted in 11 favor, but we are five and five I'm afraid, so. 12 So. 13 MR. WEINMAN: And a point of 14 clarification. 15 your option to make multiple recommendations. 16 Just to know that it is always And say generally speaking, if you 17 reach an impasse and you don't feel strongly 18 about a particular recommendation, you can say 19 we're going to, we recommend these are the four 20 we recommend the Mint go with. 21 those lines. 22 Something along We don't need to feel obligated to 23 absolutely make a recommendation if you can't, if 24 it isn't an obvious. 25 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 166 1 2 MEMBER MORAN: I'd like to make a motion. 3 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right. 4 MEMBER MORAN: I move that we approve 5 obverse -- 6 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Oh, here you go. 7 MEMBER MORAN: You're hogging that 8 thing. 9 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Sorry. 10 MEMBER MORAN: I move we approve 11 obverse number 1, and whatever the torch number 12 is. Is that number 3? 13 MR. WEINMAN: It's 1A. 14 MEMBER MORAN: 1A? 15 MR. WEINMAN: That's reverse 1. 16 MEMBER MORAN: Yes, 1A with reverse 1. 17 18 obverse 1A and reverse 1. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, so since 19 our first motion tied and therefore, failed, to 20 recommend obverse 1A and reverse 1. 21 Is there -- oh, sorry. So again, the 22 motion on the table at the moment is to recommend 23 obverse 1A and reverse 1. 24 Do we have a second on this motion? 25 All right, Sam Gelberd's second. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Any Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 167 1 discussion? 2 3 All right, let's vote. All those in favor of this motion, please raise your hand. 4 MS. WARREN: Four. 5 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Four in favor? 6 MS. WARREN: That's what I counted. 7 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay, all those 8 opposed, please raise your hand. 9 10 MS. WARREN: Five. raise? 11 12 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, the motion does not carry. 13 14 Did someone not We're back where we started. Okay, Kellen, I see your hand is raised. 15 MEMBER HOARD: Yeah, thank you. 16 I couldn't hear Greg earlier. I think 17 I caught some of the words though about 18 recommending multiple, or like having a option. 19 (Simultaneous speaking.) 20 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Yes. 21 MEMBER HOARD: I think in this case 22 because we are so evenly split, it's like five to 23 five or you know -- that it might make sense to 24 just offer up multiple. 25 Especially because the CFA will also www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 168 1 add recommendations to the Treasurer, Treasury 2 Secretary will make her own decisions. 3 4 We might offer up multiple, and I'd be okay with that personally. 5 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: That is certainly an 6 option, and at the moment, we have gone through 7 two possibilities. 8 9 I will open the floor again for another motion to see if we can find a -- 10 MEMBER MORAN: I would like to see 1 11 obverse versus number 3, and then we can see 12 whether we ought to go forward, or not. 13 PARTICIPANT: That is a motion. 14 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Yes, that is a 15 motion. 16 17 MEMBER MORAN: Well, I just want a show of hands just. 18 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay, so, yes, so the 19 motion is to, or to have a show of hands to see 20 those in favor of obverse 3? 21 22 MEMBER MORAN: Yeah, 3, yes, versus obverse 1A. 23 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay. 24 So, the motion is to have a show of 25 hands to see those who are in favor of obverse 3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 169 1 verses obverse 1. 2 Is there a second on that motion? 3 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: Yes, Art Bernstein. 4 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 5 So, let's then raise our hands those All right. 6 in favor of obverse 3 and not obverse 1. 7 those in favor of obverse 3? 8 (Hands raised.) 9 MS. WARREN: You've got six. 10 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right. 11 So, All right, so obverse 3, six. 12 Those opposed, or I'm sorry, those in 13 favor of obverse 1, raise your hands. 14 sorry. 1A, I'm 15 (Hands raised.) 16 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, so it 17 looks like the committee generally favors obverse 18 3 as, as the possible recommendation for the 19 dime. 20 21 22 So at this point, I will entertain another motion if there is one. Art? MEMBER BERNSTEIN: In an effort to be 23 helpful, let me propose that we recommend obverse 24 3 and reverse 3A. 25 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 170 1 All right, so the motion proposed at 2 the moment is to recommend obverse 3 and reverse 3 3A. 4 Is there a second on this motion? 5 Donald, you second the motion. 6 All right, any discussion? 7 Then let's vote. All those in favor 8 of recommending obverse 3 and reverse 3A for the 9 2026 Semiquincentennial dime, please raise your 10 hand. 11 (Hands raised.) 12 MS. WARREN: Six. 13 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Six, all right. 14 All those opposed, please raise your 15 hand. 16 17 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, the motion carries. 18 19 So, the recommendation then for the dime will be obverse 3 and reverse 3A. 20 One down, six more to go. 21 (Simultaneous speaking.) 22 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay. Okay, we will 23 now move on to the quarters, beginning with the 24 Declaration of Independence quarter that is 25 number 1. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 171 1 Are there any motions? John. 2 MEMBER SAUNDERS: I move that we adopt 3 the obverse 02 and the reverse 08, the Liberty 4 Bell. 5 6 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: Art Bernstein seconds. 7 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay, any discussion? 8 Then let's vote. All those in favor 9 of this motion, please raise your hand. 10 (Hands raised.) 11 MS. WARREN: Six. One, two, three, 12 four, five, six, seven. Three, four, five, six, 13 seven. Seven. 14 15 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, all those opposed, please raise your hand. 16 (Hands raised.) 17 MS. WARREN: Two, three. 18 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, the motion 19 carries. 20 Moving on, that's fine. 21 (Simultaneous speaking.) 22 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: 23 Moving on to the U.S. Constitution -- 24 (Simultaneous speaking.) 25 MS. WARREN: Wait, somebody is now Hallelujah. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 172 1 asking a question. 2 3 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Oh, I'm sorry, Kellen? 4 Did you have a question? MEMBER HOARD: So I did, I just had a 5 question. 6 usually it's indicated if there is disagreement 7 on any of these designs because we are so, I mean 8 -- the committee seems split. 9 I know in your transmittal letters But I'm wondering if that could be 10 actually positively indicated that there were 11 just different opinions, whether or not you were 12 happy with the design chosen. 13 14 I think that might generally be useful. 15 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Yeah, I agree and I 16 would, in my recommendation letters I will 17 indicate that, certainly. 18 All right, then moving on to the U.S. 19 Constitution quarter. 20 Chris. 21 22 23 Do we have any motions? MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: All right, let's see how this goes. This is Chris Capozzola. I'm going to start the conversation 24 and with the motion, with the motion that we 25 recommend obverse 2 and reverse, I can't read the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 173 1 numbers, reverse 7, We the People. 2 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, the motion 3 on the table then is to recommend for the 2026 4 Constitution quarter, obverse 2 and reverse 7. 5 Is there a second? 6 Jeanne is the second. 7 assume there is no discussion, so let us vote. 8 9 All those in favor of this obverse 2 and reverse 7, please raise your hand. 10 (Hands raised.) 11 MS. WARREN: Three. 12 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Three. 13 All right, I All those opposed, please raise your hand. 14 (Hands raised.) 15 MS. WARREN: Three, four, five, six. 16 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, the motion 17 does not carry. 18 All right, is there another motion? 19 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: This is Art 20 Bernstein. 21 and reverse 9. 22 I move that we recommend obverse 2 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right. The 23 motion on the table is to recommend obverse 2, 24 and reverse 9. 25 Is there a second? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 174 1 2 Sam, thanks. I assume there is no discussion, so let us vote. 3 All those in favor of recommending the 4 obverse 2 and reverse 9 for the 2026 5 Constitutional quarter, please raise your hands. 6 (Hands raised.) 7 MS. WARREN: Nine. 8 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Great, nine. 9 All opposed, please raise your hand. 10 MS. WARREN: You have an abstention. 11 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: And one abstention. 12 The motion carries. 13 MS. STAFFORD: I beg your indulgence on 14 this. 15 awareness. 16 I just wanted to draw a, bring an So this combination, two of our 17 stakeholders noted that because this chair is 18 actually inside Independence Hall, that and I'm 19 just, I'm just pointing this out for the 20 Declaration of Independence quarter, there was an 21 option where you have Independence Hall depicted 22 with some language from the Declaration of 23 Independence. 24 25 And I -- I'm just pointing out that if there was a concern about whether people would www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 175 1 know this, the idea that Independence Hall along 2 with a story about the chair inside it, that she 3 said that might be a nice story to tell across 4 them, that might actually buoy up one another. 5 So I just wanted to point that out. 6 I don't want in any way to revisit a decision, a 7 direction that you've identified. 8 9 But because we've talked about these two coins in particular having some kind of 10 relationship, whether it's the obverses and/or 11 the reverses, I just wanted to point out that 12 since you feel so strongly about this one, that 13 centering perhaps the, taking a look at the 14 Declaration through that lens might be an option, 15 so, thank you. 16 Just leave it there. 17 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, thank you 18 very much, April. 19 20 MS. STAFFORD: Lee Anne is no longer able to, she's no longer. 21 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, shall we 22 move on to the Abolition quarter? 23 motions? 24 25 Are there any Sorry, Kellen, I didn't see whose hand was raised first, so Kellen, yes? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 176 1 MEMBER HOARD: Well Art can go ahead if 2 he wants to. 3 I think. 4 5 We're going to make the same motion CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, Art, would you like to make the motion? 6 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: This is Art 7 Bernstein. I move that we recommend obverse 1 8 and reverse 1 with the -- and that the word 9 Abolitionism be changed to Abolition. 10 MEMBER HOARD: Kellen Hoard seconds. 11 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, any 12 discussion? 13 All right, then let us vote. All 14 those in favor of recommending for the Abolition 15 quarter, obverse 1 and reverse 1, but with the 16 word Abolitionism changed to Abolition, please 17 raise your hands. 18 (Hands raised.) 19 MS. WARREN: Everybody. 20 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, unanimous. 21 The motion carries. 22 23 MS. STAFFORD: Are you choosing to leave it off? 24 25 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: We can come back to that. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 177 1 So once we get through the selection, 2 then we can revisit any individual changes that 3 we might want to make on some of these coins. 4 All right, moving on to the Civil 5 Rights 2026 quarter. 6 of where we were. 7 Oh, I'm sorry, lost track Getting ahead of myself, yes. So, we 8 will now consider the 2026 Suffrage quarter. 9 are there any motions? 10 So, John. MEMBER SAUNDERS: John Saunders. I 11 move that we drop the two lines on the right of 12 your screen there, with the supposition that 13 Votes for Women on the backside, it change to 14 appropriate other slogan for suffrage. 15 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay. 16 All right, so the motion on the table 17 is to adopt, or to recommend obverse 1B and 18 reverse 4, but with changes to the wording on the 19 reverse so that Votes for Women is not replicated 20 on both sides of the coin. 21 Is that correct? 22 MEMBER SAUNDERS: That's correct. 23 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Is there a second on 24 25 this motion? MEMBER BERNSTEIN: Arthur Bernstein, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 178 1 second. 2 3 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, so let us vote unless there is any discussion? 4 5 All those in favor, oh, I'm sorry, Kellen, did you have a -- 6 (Simultaneous speaking.) 7 MEMBER HOARD: Sorry, I didn't, I 8 didn't, so this is Kellen Hoard. 9 John through the speaker. 10 I didn't hear Was there a suggestion on what is 11 being, like what we're going to substitute in on 12 the reverse? 13 14 MEMBER SAUNDERS: We can talk about that when we go back to the details afterwards. 15 MEMBER HOARD: Okay, I just wanted -- 16 (Simultaneous speaking.) 17 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Yes, John is 18 recommending that we could revisit that question, 19 if this pair is adopted for recommendation. 20 21 MEMBER HOARD: Sounds good. I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss something. 22 Thank you. 23 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, let's vote 24 25 on this motion then. All those in favor of adopting www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 179 1 obverse, or recommending obverse 1B and reverse 2 4, but with changes to the wording so that Votes 3 for Women is not replicated on both sides, please 4 raise your hand. 5 (Hands raised.) 6 MEMBER WARREN: Five. 7 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Five. 8 All those opposed, please raise your 9 hand. 10 (Hands raised.) 11 MEMBER WARREN: You have three, so two 12 people abstaining. 13 14 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, motion carries. 15 All right, we will now move on to the 16 2026 Civil Rights quarter. 17 motions? Do we have any 18 MEMBER SCARINCI: Motion to approve. 19 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, Donald, 20 thank you very much. 21 The motion on the table is to 22 recommend obverse and I'm sorry, I can't, 1, and 23 reverse 2. 24 Is there a second? 25 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: Arthur Bernstein www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 180 1 seconds. 2 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you very much. 3 All those in favor of -- 4 (Simultaneous speaking.) 5 MS. WARREN: This is Jennifer Warren, 6 just real point for this one and then going back 7 to the other one. 8 9 10 If you want the tally of the vote since it wasn't necessarily on the record, if you could read them out like 5:5. 11 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Sure. 12 MS. WARREN: And for just so it would 13 be part of the transcript. 14 15 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, yes, we can do that. 16 MS. WARREN: Thank you. 17 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Do I need to do that 18 for the Suffrage? 19 20 MS. WARREN: Well, I would do it for all of them. 21 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Right. Okay 22 MS. WARREN: Because none of them were 23 real, I said them but I wasn't on mic, so. 24 25 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay, all right, thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 181 1 All right, so all of those in favor of 2 recommending obverse 1 and reverse 2 for the 2026 3 Civil Rights quarter, please raise your hand. 4 (Hands raised.) 5 MS. WARREN: All of them. 6 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Right, 10, so it 7 carries unanimously. 8 And finally, the 2026 Half Dollar. 9 Are there any motions? 10 MEMBER SCARINCI: Yes, I'll do it. 11 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Donald? 12 MEMBER SCARINCI: Obverse 1, I'm sorry, 13 the obverse is 5, obverse 5 and reverse with 05A. 14 15 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay, so the motion is to recommend obverse 5 and reverse 5A. 16 Is there a second? 17 MEMBER MORAN: Mike Moran, second. 18 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, we have 19 competing seconds. 20 (Simultaneous speaking.) 21 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Yes. 22 23 Mike Moran seconds. All of those in favor of adopting 24 obverse 5 and reverse 5A for the 2026 25 Semiquincentennial half dollar, please raise your www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 182 1 hand. 2 (Hands raised.) 3 MS. WARREN: I count seven. 4 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Seven. 5 All those opposed, please raise your 6 hand. 7 (Hands raised.) 8 MS. WARREN: Three oppose. 9 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Right, three opposed. 10 The motion carries. 11 So, we now have selected obverse and 12 reverse designs for recommendation and now I 13 would like to go back to the individual designs 14 for any modifications that we might recommend. 15 MS. WARREN: I'm sorry, this is 16 Jennifer. And when you do each one, just say 17 what the vote was originally. 18 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay. 19 So, we will start with the dime. 20 vote on the dime was to adopt obverse 3 and 21 reverse 3A. 22 The Six in favor, and four opposed. Are there any modifications to this 23 design that we might, to these obverse and 24 reverse designs, that we might want to recommend? 25 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: This is Jeanne www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 183 1 Stevens-Sollman. I think we need to pay 2 attention to the flight feathers of the eagle. 3 These are secondary feathers, not first flight 4 feathers. 5 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, so would 6 you like to make a motion that we modify or that 7 the eagle feathers be modified? 8 9 10 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Oh, yes. I move that we modify the feathers of the eagle, the flight feathers of the eagle to be straight. 11 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: So, the motion on the 12 table is to modify the flight feathers of the 13 eagle on the reverse, to more accurately depict 14 reality, is that correct? Okay. 15 Is there a second? 16 MEMBER MORAN: Mike Moran, I'll second. 17 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, all those 18 in favor of this motion, please raise your hand. 19 (Hands raised.) 20 MS. WARREN: Nine. 21 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay, there are nine 22 in favor. 23 24 25 Any opposed? All right, nine in favor, one abstention. The motion carries. All right, we will now take a look at www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 184 1 the Declaration of Independence quarter. 2 recommended obverse 2 and reverse 8. 3 favor, three opposed. 4 We have Seven in Are there any modifications that we 5 might recommend to this obverse or reverse 6 design? 7 All right -- oh. 8 MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: This is Chris 9 Capozzola, and in, to April's point and also 10 without the subject matter experts available to 11 us at this time. 12 And knowing that we can clearly 13 endorse one set here but communicate in your 14 letter or elsewhere, and I would move that in 15 your letter, you communicate the sense of the 16 CCAC that the Liberty Bell is a sort of general 17 description of, of the founding era. 18 And that we understand that it may 19 not, or probably was not, rung on or around July 20 4th, 1776. 21 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay, so there is a 22 motion on the table to convey in my letter to the 23 Secretary of the Treasury, that the CCAC 24 understands that the Liberty Bell here is a 25 general symbol, is that correct? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 185 1 And that we understand that the bell 2 itself was not rung historically at the time of 3 the Declaration of Independence, is that correct? 4 MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: Correct. 5 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right. 6 Is there a second to that motion? 7 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: Arthur Bernstein, 8 with second, and I have a comment. 9 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay. 10 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: I was happy to 11 second the motion but I -- April I'm not sure I 12 was fully understanding the point you were 13 making. 14 15 16 The Liberty Bell was in Independence Hall when the Declaration was adopted. MS. STAFFORD: It was not. When we 17 spoke to someone with the National Parks Service 18 in actually Independence Hall, they informed us 19 that it was hidden for quite some time because of 20 the American Revolution. 21 And because of some construction, 22 they, it's been widely said oh yeah, it rang. 23 didn't ring on July 4th, maybe like July 8th. 24 25 It But even that our subject matter expert said, is unlikely to have happened. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 That Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 186 1 that's really kind of lore. 2 And so again, I just wanted to make 3 sure we communicated the, the historical accuracy 4 of it. 5 But I do think it's very helpful to 6 have this kind of acknowledgment, you know, 7 representing I think as Kellen said, the spirit 8 of the nation. 9 That kind of idea. We can focus on that as opposed to 10 kind of the literalness of it. 11 helpful. 12 13 If that's MEMBER BERNSTEIN: I'm glad I seconded the motion. 14 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, very good. 15 All right, so let us vote on this 16 17 18 motion if there's no further discussion. Mike, do you have? Okay, all those in favor of this motion, please raise your hand. 19 (Hands raised.) 20 MS. WARREN: Okay, everybody. 21 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, the motion 22 23 24 25 carries unanimously. Any other further modifications to this and if not, then -MS. WARREN: Kellen does. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 187 1 2 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Oh, Kellen, your hand is raised? 3 4 MEMBER HOARD: Yes, this is Kellen Hoard. 5 Just a quick question. Of the designs we've approved, this is 6 the only one with a double date where there's no 7 little squiggle between it that isn't separated 8 by a different design element. 9 So some of our obverses have a bust in 10 the middle, or something else. 11 they always have the squiggle in the middle and 12 this is the only one that doesn't. 13 But otherwise, And so I'm wondering if for 14 consistency's sake, we wanted to put that in 15 there? 16 MS. STAFFORD: It's because of the 17 dates in here on the Ruby Bridges design. 18 depends on how it's presented. 19 20 So it If it is kind of side-by-side, we've employed the squiggle. 21 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, Kellen, 22 were you able to hear what April was saying 23 about? 24 MEMBER HOARD: I was. 25 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 188 1 MEMBER HOARD: And I have no, really I 2 just wanted to raise it to the committee as the 3 odd one out. 4 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay, so you are not 5 making a motion at this time, you are just 6 commenting then? 7 MEMBER HOARD: That's right, that's 8 right. 9 up. I didn't know if you wanted to take it 10 11 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Oh, okay. All right, any other discussion on this quarter? 12 If not, let's move on to the 13 Constitution quarter. And, we have recommended 14 the obverse 2 and reverse 7. 15 MS. WARREN: Reverse 9. 16 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Oh, I'm sorry, I was 17 looking at the earlier motion which failed. 18 correct motion that carried was obverse 2 and 19 reverse 9, votes nine in favor and one opposed, 20 abstain. 21 Are there any modifications to this 22 obverse or reverse design that we would 23 recommend? 24 25 The MEMBER SCARINCI: Just a question first. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 189 1 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right. 2 MEMBER SCARINCI: A question first. 3 people think, I mean what's the feeling and, you 4 know, and, Joe, especially from you. 5 U.S. Constitution. Should that be 6 bolder or in some way stand out more than, or 7 even if you do U.S. Constitution as, you know, 8 and not United States of America, but U.S. 9 Constitution. 10 Do Because that's the thing that brings 11 home the coin. 12 look right? 13 How would that, would that not MR. MENNA: Hi, this is Joseph Menna. 14 You can either swap out U.S. Constitution and 15 Liberty, or you can't really make, but that 16 centerline still needs to be that height. 17 The only way if you wanted to keep 18 U.S. Constitution as the interior, along the 19 interior circumference under Liberty, I would say 20 that simply by expanding the kerning. 21 stretching out U.S. Constitution across a much 22 broader arc. 23 Basically So like, it maybe comes, you know, 24 closer to the twenty-five, and closer to the L. 25 But that would be it. Swapping out would be the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 190 1 first way to make U.S. Constitution bigger. 2 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay, thank you, Joe. 3 John, your hand is raised? 4 MEMBER SAUNDERS: Yes. I'd make a 5 motion that we -- John Saunders. I'd make a 6 motion that we swap out Liberty and U.S. 7 Constitution to give the U.S. Constitution a 8 bolder presentation, as Joe suggested. 9 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, so the 10 motion on the table is to elevate the wording, 11 U.S. Constitution to the position currently 12 occupied by Liberty, and put Liberty in the 13 position where U.S. Constitution currently reads. 14 Is that correct? 15 MEMBER SAUNDERS: Yes. 16 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay. 17 18 19 Is there a second to this motion? Don. All those in favor of this motion, please raise your hand. 20 (Hands raised.) 21 MS. WARREN: Six -- oh, wait, hold, put 22 your hands back up. Seven. 23 MEMBER HOARD: This is Kellen. 24 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Any opposed? 25 MS. WARREN: Kellen didn't have his www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 191 1 hand up, did he? 2 MR. TATE: Did you have your hand, Don? 3 MEMBER HOARD: Yes. 4 MS. WARREN: Oh okay, I didn't see it, 5 so eight. 6 7 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, eight. Any opposed? 8 9 No opposed. All right, any other modifications that we would recommend to this reverse design? 12 13 Okay, then moving on to the Abolition quarter as we are now calling it. 14 We have recommended obverse 1 and 15 reverse 1 unanimously. 16 recommendation for the reverse, suggested 17 replacing Abolitionism with Abolition. 18 19 We, as part of our Are there any further modifications that we would like to make to this design? 20 21 And one abstained. 10 11 Motion carries. MEMBER MORAN: I'd like to make an observation. 22 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right. 23 MEMBER MORAN: This is Mike Moran. 24 know we considered putting names underneath 25 Frederick Douglass, but I thought the subject www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 192 1 matter expert yesterday put it nicely. 2 This is an easily recognizable image, 3 and it should be treated just like the other 4 founding fathers where we don't put Benjamin 5 Franklin under his image, or George Washington, 6 we just leave it alone. 7 8 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, thank you, Mike. Any other comments? 9 Annelisa? MEMBER PURDIE: This is Annelisa Purdy. 10 I second that motion and believe everyone should 11 know who Frederick Douglass is by now. 12 13 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Was that in fact a motion, Mike, or was that -- 14 (Simultaneous speaking.) 15 MEMBER MORAN: It was, okay -- 16 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: It was at the end of 17 the motion. 18 MEMBER PURDIE: I agree. But I agree 19 with the sentiment, especially considering the 20 commentary and discussion from yesterday. 21 Thank you. 22 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Nice, very good. 23 think we are satisfied with this then? 24 move on? 25 Shall we The Suffrage quarter for 2026. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I We Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 193 1 have recommended obverse 1B and reverse 4. 2 five in favor, three opposed, two abstains. And 3 And as part of this recommendation, 4 that we would modify the wording on the reverse 5 in the center, removing Votes for Women, but we 6 have not yet had a recommendation for what would 7 replace Votes for Women. 8 9 10 So at this time, why don't we have a discussion about that modification to this design? 11 Art? 12 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: This is Art 13 Bernstein. Just to facilitate the conversation, 14 as a reminder the two suggestions I came up with 15 yesterday were the phrases Suffrage First or 16 Equal Suffrage. 17 Those were two phrases from the time. 18 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Would you like to 19 make a motion? 20 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: No. 21 (Laughter.) 22 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: John, your hand is 23 24 25 raised. MEMBER SAUNDERS: John Saunders. If we're going to put two words in there, I would www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 194 1 just say Women's Suffrage. 2 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Is that a motion? 3 MEMBER SAUNDERS: I'll make it a 4 motion, yes. 5 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay, so the motion 6 on the table is to replace Votes for Women in the 7 center of the reverse 4, with Women's Suffrage. 8 Is that correct? 9 MEMBER SAUNDERS: Women's Suffrage, 10 yes. 11 12 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Oh, I'm sorry, there's a - 13 14 MR. MENNA: This is just a technical comment. This is Joseph Menna. 15 Suffrage won't fit in that circle. 16 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: It will not fit? 17 Okay, so the Chief Engraver has informed us that 18 Women's Suffrage would not fit within that 19 circle. 20 So we need to find words that will, in 21 fact, then fit within that circle. So the motion 22 then, is withdrawn. 23 Kellen? 24 (Simultaneous speaking.) 25 MEMBER HOARD: Yes, I was going to Yes, and -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 195 1 raise the same question about Suffrage fitting in 2 there. 3 Is it feasible or possible to just, or 4 does it dampen the impact too much to just say 5 Votes? 6 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: It's a possibility. 7 I also want to point out as Mike Moran has 8 reminded me, that the word Suffrage already 9 appears on the reverse. So, it would be a 10 duplication if we were to use that word in the 11 center. 12 Chris, your hand is raised? 13 MEMBER CAPOZZOLA: To that point, is it 14 necessary that Suffrage and Liberty remain where 15 they are on the bottom? 16 If one of those words could fit in the 17 center and the subject matter experts could 18 confirm that it did circulate in that way, now 19 whether it's Liberty or Suffrage, then could the 20 other wording down at the bottom be rearranged? 21 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: It's entirely 22 possible, I'm sure. Liberty is one of the 23 required inscriptions on this quarter, however. 24 So, how we would rearrange Suffrage, 25 twenty-five cent, and Liberty, is something that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 196 1 we would have to discuss so that it would be 2 balanced for the dollar, yes. 3 All right, Sam, your hand is raised? 4 MEMBER GELBERD: Thank you, Peter. Sam 5 Gelberd. 6 Just pointing out that we don't have 7 to have 2-5 and the cents symbol. 8 Suffrage in the center of the rosette, we could 9 just say quarter dollar, as well. 10 11 If we move So I'm just pointing that out as an option. 12 Not making a motion just -CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, that is an 13 option. 14 addition to twenty-five cents. 15 We can use the words quarter dollar in MR. WEINMAN: Just once again, as a 16 comment in the conversation that once again, you 17 don't need to design by committee, necessarily. 18 You could just as an option, you could 19 ask the Mint to consult with subject matter 20 experts on what would fit in the space. 21 something, I'm not in a position to make your 22 motion, but that's something that is an option 23 for you. 24 25 Just CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Don, your hand is raised? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 197 1 MEMBER SCARINCI: Motion to send it 2 back and let the Mint, I'm Donald Scarinci. 3 move to send it back and let the Mint decide how 4 to deal with the position. 5 I CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Yes, so the motion on 6 the table is to let the Mint in consultation with 7 subject matter experts, is that correct, decide 8 what the wording on the reverse of this coin 9 should be. 10 11 Is there -- all right, all those in favor of this motion, please raise your hand. 12 (Hands raised.) 13 MEMBER KELLEN: Aye. 14 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, any 15 opposed? 16 Actually, can we raise our hands? 17 MS. WARREN: I think it was six because 18 Kellen just said aye, right? Seven. 19 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Seven. 20 All right, three abstain, motion 21 22 23 Any opposed? carries. Any other modifications to this obverse or reverse design? 24 Oh, Kellen, your hand is raised? 25 MEMBER HOARD: Thank you, this is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 198 1 Kellen Hoard. 2 And not to keep harping on this, but 3 this, these dates are also stacked and they have 4 a squiggle, which is in contrast to what we 5 decided for the other quarter. 6 And the cent and the nickel that we 7 approved months ago, their dates are also stacked 8 and have a squiggle. 9 So I think for me, I would like to 10 make a motion that the Mint sort out some kind of 11 consistent scheme with the squiggles. 12 Maybe Joe has something to say maybe? 13 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Right. 14 MR. MENNA: This is Joseph Menna. 15 The coin -- the design on the left 16 doesn't have a delimiter because of the stacking 17 and the space between the stacking, whereas the 18 one that you just referred to, does have a 19 delimiter because the stacking is much more 20 compressed and less obvious. 21 22 23 Therefore, the, you know, hyphen, tilde, hyphen, whatever, that's why it's there. MEMBER KELLEN: A quick question on 24 that front then, Joe. Is there a reason we did 25 the delimiter for the cent and the nickel? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 199 1 2 MR. MENNA: I don't have those visually. 3 MEMBER KELLEN: Oh. 4 MR. MENNA: This is Joseph Menna. If 5 they're there, they're there for a design reason. 6 We vetted this portfolio and if they want to go 7 through them one by one I could answer it, but I 8 would say everything is deliberate. 9 Thank you. 10 11 MEMBER KELLEN: That's helpful clarification 12 Thank you. 13 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, Kellen, 14 what's the motion, or, or not, or you're just 15 making comments? 16 17 18 19 20 MEMBER KELLEN: No, Joe's clarification was helpful. I'm good. CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Okay. All right, thank you very much. Let us move on then if there's no 21 further modifications we'd like to make to the 22 2026 Suffrage quarter, to consider again the 2026 23 Civil Rights quarter. 24 25 Are there any modifications that the committee would recommend to obverse 1 and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 200 1 reverse 2, which are unanimously recommended? 2 All right, we seem, oh. 3 MEMBER MORAN: I believe that Ruby 4 Bridges made a comment, several comments, strong 5 comments, that the marches were multi-ethnic and 6 that she wanted the figures modified to reflect 7 that fact. That it was not just the African 8 Americans. And broader-based support within the 9 United States. 10 So, I would move that the Mint make 11 adjustments to the features of the five on the 12 reverse selectively. 13 14 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, thank you very much. 15 So again, the motion is to make 16 adjustments to the features of the five 17 individuals, or six because there is a child, 18 depicted on the reverse to represent greater 19 diversity. 20 Is that correct? 21 MEMBER MORAN: Selectively. 22 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Or selectively, yes. 23 Is there a second to this motion? 24 John? 25 MEMBER SAUNDERS: I think we should www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 201 1 point out something that -- 2 (Simultaneous speaking.) 3 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: You're not seconding 4 then? 5 MEMBER SAUNDERS: John Saunders. 6 I'd like to make a point out here that 7 has a reference to this. 8 has a big bushy beard. 9 The one guy on the end And with exceptions to people here, in 10 1960 the only people that wore bushy beards were 11 lumberjacks and beatniks with maybe a couple 12 college professors, too. 13 But you know, the beards came in in 14 you know, '65, '66. You know, I had one for a 15 good many years. 16 17 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: And still a little bit of it there. 18 MEMBER SAUNDERS: Yes. 19 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, we still 20 do not have a second at this time. Would anyone 21 would like to second this motion? 22 MEMBER GELBERD: Okay, I'll second. 23 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, any 24 25 discussion? Art? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 202 1 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: Well, I wanted to 2 respond to what John said. 3 of the historical pictures from that era, I 4 believe the gentleman on the right is meant to be 5 Rabbi Abraham Heschel, who was one of the 6 marchers that was in the front row. 7 8 And, the beard would be appropriate on the rabbi. 9 10 Having looked at some CHAIR VAN ALFEN: So, that actually does depict a historical figure then, it seems. 11 Is that correct? No, all right. 12 MS. STAFFORD: Our artists were 13 inspired at the time and we did share with the 14 artists the strong advisement of our subject 15 matter experts, to diversify the grouping. 16 And honestly, our team was, like, just 17 beginning to execute those things when we had to 18 kind of wrap up the portfolio and move it 19 forward. 20 So, this one has always been pegged as 21 one that to Mike's point, we would need to go 22 back and just make sure it's as broadly 23 representative as we are able to make it. 24 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right. 25 MS. STAFFORD: So, inspired by real www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 203 1 life, yes. But that we can go further to make 2 sure we're broadly representative, as is also 3 reflective of the history as our stakeholders 4 pointed out yesterday. 5 MEMBER PURDIE: Not yesterday. 6 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you, April. 7 So, we have a motion on the table to 8 modify the six figures depicted on the reverse as 9 necessary, to reflect greater diversity. 10 11 All those in favor of this motion, please raise your hand. 12 (Hands raised.) 13 MS. WARREN: I count nine, or wait, who 14 put their hand down? So, Annelisa, you're not. 15 Okay. 16 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Nine? 17 nine. Nine. All right, Any opposed? 18 One abstain. 19 Any further modifications to this 20 obverse or reverse design? Motion carries. Annelisa? 21 MEMBER PURDIE: Hi, this is Annelisa 22 Purdie, and this is just a general comment with 23 respect to just explaining my abstention vote. 24 25 The necessity of showing the diversity of people who did contribute to the Civil Rights www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 204 1 2 movement. One of the reasons why I like the 3 display of the reverse of this particular quarter 4 is because it's important too, to emphasize what 5 this particular movement was about. 6 And while there were many different 7 people who eventually did come to recognize that 8 this was something that was important, I think 9 it's imperative to put Black Americans, African 10 11 Americans, at the forefront of the design. Because from the beginning, especially 12 with the fight for school desegregation, those 13 were the people who were on the frontlines. 14 Especially the image of the child on the reverse, 15 which was something that stood out to me. 16 So, I will of course defer to the 17 recommendations of wonderful folks on the 18 committee and everything, and understood very 19 well, but historically as well as aesthetically, 20 I think it is very imperative that we do keep 21 African Americans, everyday African Americans, at 22 the forefront of the design. 23 Thank you. 24 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Thank you very much. 25 Mike has a comment. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 205 1 2 MEMBER MORAN: I stuck the word selectively into that motion deliberately, so. 3 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right, thank you. 4 Any other suggested modifications for 5 this obverse or reverse design? 6 All right, then let us consider again 7 the Half Dollar. 8 reverse 5A by a vote of seven in favor, and three 9 opposed. 10 We recommended obverse 5 and Are there any modifications that we 11 would like to make to either the obverse, or the 12 reverse design on the screen? 13 All right, wow. 14 (Laughter.) 15 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: Not yet. Not yet. 16 I just want to make a few comments, and I would 17 ask Roger if it's possible to put up on the 18 screen, all seven of the pairings that we have 19 decided to recommend. 20 And while Roger is putting that 21 together, I want to congratulate the Mint and the 22 Office of Design Management. 23 I know that this is a project that you 24 all have been working on so hard for so long, at 25 this point. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 206 1 This is a tremendous achievement. 2 really is. 3 every moment that you have spent on this, in 4 putting these portfolios together. 5 It And you are to be congratulated on These really are amazing portfolios. 6 They convey I think, everything thematically, and 7 in terms of the three acts that were brought 8 together. 9 And our hard work of course, has been 10 trying to select from these portfolios, designs 11 that we as a committee feel that we can recommend 12 to the Secretary of the Treasury. 13 itself, has not been an easy task, as well. 14 Which in So on both sides of this room, the 15 side of the Mint and the side of the committee, I 16 think that everybody in this room is to be 17 congratulated. 18 19 So, I would like a round of applause for all of us. 20 (Applause.) 21 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: And I would also like 22 us to take a moment and look at the 23 recommendations that we have on the screen. 24 25 I will of course, be writing these letters as soon as I am able, and we will see www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting October 16, 2024 Page 207 1 then what the Secretary of the Treasury decides. 2 But in the meantime, I think that we 3 can bask in what we have achieved over the last 4 two days for the committee, of course, and over 5 the last two and a half years with the Mint 6 staff. 7 8 And while we are doing that, I will also then call for a motion to adjourn. 9 MEMBER STEVENS-SOLLMAN: I move. 10 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right. 11 MEMBER BERNSTEIN: Arthur Bernstein, 12 seconds. 13 CHAIR VAN ALFEN: All right. 14 So we are standing adjourned at 2:23 15 16 17 p.m. (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter went off the record at 2:23 p.m.) 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Page 208 C E R T I F I C A T E This is to certify that the foregoing transcript In the matter of: Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Date: 10-16-24 Place: Washington, DC was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under my direction; further, that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings. ----------------------Court Reporter NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14TH ST. NW, STE. 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com Meeting [0,1,2,3 - 1a] 0 0,1,2,3 127:9 127:10 0002 2:7 01 21:22 22:23 27:23 40:2 46:13 51:8,15 53:7 154:23 01a 21:4,11 27:23,23 40:3 46:13,16 150:6 159:4 01b 46:14 154:23 159:6 02 40:5 52:20 171:3 02a 40:5 03 40:6 53:3 153:11 03a 22:4 40:6 139:21 03b 40:7 53:3 04 40:7 51:15 53:3,4,7 05 40:8 53:4 153:6,7 05a 40:8 53:4 153:6,7,10 181:13 06 48:19,21 53:5,8 153:7,8 06a 27:25 40:9 07 53:6 114:16 08 171:3 October 16, 2024 Page 1 1 1 1:1 2:7 11:4,6 12:20,25 13:2 14:15 16:4,22 16:22 18:4,5,7 18:17 19:2,5,7 19:25 20:7,25 25:9,18,18 28:2,12 29:21 31:1,1,4,4 40:11 43:5,12 44:5 47:18 48:4,5,15,17 48:22 49:9 50:21 51:12 52:13 53:14,15 55:23 56:5,24 57:1,8 58:3 59:1 60:12 63:2 65:2,18 66:4,17,23 68:17 70:10 71:21 72:4 81:1 103:4 130:14 156:17 157:2,12 162:24,25 163:4,11 166:11,15,16 166:17,20,23 168:10 169:1,6 169:13 170:25 176:7,8,15,15 179:22 181:2 181:12 191:14 191:15 199:25 1,000 52:3 10 1:13 2:16 3:5 37:3 71:8 181:6 10-16-24 208:6 100,000 157:19 157:20 10:07 71:11 10:20 71:9 10:21 71:12 11 1:15 2:16 40:2 140:20 11:34 126:20 11:45 126:21 12 1:16 2:17 40:6 12:33 160:21 13 1:17 2:18 12:25 13:20,24 40:7,12,13 56:2 14 1:19 2:18 3:7 40:11 15 1:21 2:19 40:16 150th 139:24 16 1:8,23 2:20 4:5 40:6 17 1:25 2:20 1776 10:21 22:11 35:10 76:8 81:23 135:6 184:20 1780s 121:9 1787 76:9 136:13,14 1792 129:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 1794 41:10 1796 9:24 18 2:1,21 15:18 1809 86:13 1830s 92:6 1837 86:13 1865 76:14 1892 86:14 18mm 123:9 18th 29:15 19 2:2,21 1916 41:15 86:15 96:18 1920 76:10,15 1946 9:22 1948 41:16 1955 147:4 1960 201:10 1964 41:5 63:10 76:17 160:13 1970s 138:6 1976 41:21 69:18 1986 156:15 157:17 19th 29:15 125:19 1:30 160:19,22 1a 11:4,8 12:20 13:2 16:4 17:7 18:5,17,21 19:4 20:7,24 20:24 23:13 25:9,10,18,21 28:2,2,7,9,12 40:12 43:5,14 48:4 49:16 Meeting [1a - 4th] 51:12 53:14,19 54:12 55:23 56:6 58:3 65:6 66:23 71:22 78:19,20 163:16,19 164:14 166:13 166:14,16,17 166:20,23 168:22 169:13 1b 43:5,14 53:14,20 54:12 55:15,23,25 65:7 67:1,4,9 68:9 71:23 156:17 157:2 177:17 179:1 193:1 2 2 1:2 2:8 11:11 13:3,8 19:23 20:3 21:7 23:18 27:23 28:8 30:9,16 30:20 32:6,12 32:21 40:13 43:17 44:17 48:11 50:10 57:10 58:25 60:9,20 65:20 65:22 71:24 72:5 140:19 172:25 173:4,8 173:20,23 174:4 179:23 181:2 184:2 188:14,18 October 16, 2024 Page 2 200:1 2-5 196:7 20 2:3,22 20/20 103:13 200 69:19 2024 1:8 4:5 2026 3:3,5 6:15 6:15,17 8:24 8:24 9:15 10:1 10:5,22 14:5 20:21 22:11,20 37:1 38:3 40:24 42:1,10 46:1 71:6,15 73:15 81:23 139:1 161:3,13 162:18 164:15 170:9 173:3 174:4 177:5,8 179:16 181:2,8 181:24 192:25 199:22,22 2026-2028 3:9 3:11 2027 38:4 2031 38:10 20th 29:14 104:1 21 2:4,22 40:3 21st 101:19 104:1 22 2:5,23 72:2 23 2:6,24 24 2:6,25 25 38:18 72:11 250 10:7 11:7 13:10 16:10 17:15 18:8 19:6 21:2,2 25:12 31:7,9 32:14 35:9 42:3 57:9 76:5 76:19,23 83:12 90:25 250th 73:16 2a 11:11 13:3 13:11 19:24 23:17,19 27:22 32:16 40:13,14 3 3 1:3 2:9 11:18 11:22 13:12 19:13,19,21 21:7 27:7 28:7 29:11,20 30:9 30:19 32:21 33:4,6,24 36:9 40:5,7,8,8,14 43:20 44:23 45:2 48:11 55:10 57:7 71:25 72:6 78:18 98:15 103:6 163:12 166:12 168:11 168:20,21,25 169:6,7,11,18 169:24 170:2,8 170:19 182:20 30 40:2 71:22 72:2,11 127:25 128:10 36 60:1 3:15 4:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 3a 11:18 12:1 13:12,15 17:21 19:21,22 24:23 27:7 31:18,19 40:16 44:23 45:2 50:5 55:10 72:6 163:19 164:15 169:24 170:3,8 170:19 182:21 3b 11:18 12:2 27:7 33:6 44:23 49:22 50:5,22 55:11 72:7 3s 31:19,21 4 4 1:4 2:10 3:2 12:4 13:17,22 18:25 24:19 40:7,17,17 43:23 45:4 48:11 54:22 58:19 72:1,8 177:18 179:2 193:1 194:7 40 26:24 127:25 128:10 4a 12:4,8 13:17 13:23 18:25 19:1 23:23 24:9,21 40:18 4s 27:14 4th 184:20 185:23 Meeting [5 - acknowledgment] 5 5 1:5 2:11 12:13 40:6,8 44:2 45:10 46:21 48:11 50:21 54:7 56:8 57:7,13 57:19 59:11 62:17,20 63:3 64:11,17,18 67:13 68:17,20 70:16 72:2,2,9 106:9,12 181:13,13,15 181:24 205:7 50 41:3 43:16 52:3 55:25 56:2 67:7 160:9,12,14 500 52:3 5:5 180:10 5a 12:13 45:10 49:22 50:22 63:4 64:18,18 68:20 72:9 106:13 181:15 181:24 205:8 6 6 1:6 2:12 12:17 21:7 27:2 45:13 47:6 55:2,3,16 57:13,14 58:18 66:5 68:4,9 72:10,11 106:3 600 160:5 60s 65 66 6a October 16, 2024 Page 3 62:1 201:14 201:14 12:17 27:2,4 7 7 1:7 2:13 40:13,18 45:16 72:12 140:15 140:16 173:1,4 173:9 188:14 7,500 111:24 70 27:16,17 70s 62:1,2 72 3:9 75 160:1 8 8 1:9 2:14 40:9 184:2 80 10:2 130:5 160:1 801 1:13 8:30 1:14 4:2,5 8th 135:12 185:23 9 9 1:11 2:15 3:3 40:14 140:15 140:17,18 173:21,24 174:4 188:15 188:19 9:11 37:6 9:21 37:7 9:25 37:4 9th 1:13 a a.m. 1:14 4:2 37:6,7 71:11 71:12 126:20 126:21 able 34:11 55:6 55:8 79:8 80:8 83:11 119:24 122:19 143:13 175:20 187:22 202:23 206:25 abolition 76:12 80:4 92:17 104:25 110:11 113:19,21 116:10 122:23 126:1 142:4 145:17,25 175:22 176:9 176:14,16 191:12,17 abolitionism 76:12 79:14 113:21 145:25 176:9,16 191:17 above 37:5 71:10 122:18 126:19 143:23 143:24 160:20 207:16 abraham 202:5 absence 10:2 absent 125:4 absolute 14:16 absolutely 91:3 96:3 124:22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 139:2 165:23 abstain 188:20 197:20 203:18 abstained 191:9 abstaining 179:12 abstains 193:2 abstention 174:10,11 183:24 203:23 abstract 101:10 150:21 accept 18:7 accepted 149:2 access 103:18 accessibility 104:15 accessible 131:22 accessory 149:24 accident 106:7 accuracy 186:3 accurate 123:4 139:17,19,22 141:24 150:15 151:12 208:10 accurately 183:13 208:8 achieved 207:3 achievement 206:1 acknowledge 65:23 acknowledg... 186:6 Meeting [act - alfen] act 75:25 76:5 76:17,20 action 42:23 208:12,17 active 22:12 acts 41:25 66:12,14 75:25 206:7 actual 125:6 150:22 actuality 135:15 actually 15:11 16:18 18:16 20:25 38:19 54:9 57:5 69:18 78:15 82:12,19,24 83:11 90:19 91:18 95:3 103:7,9,11 104:3 105:25 106:16 113:23 121:3 123:4 124:1 127:3,5 128:4 131:11 131:25 134:5 134:16 135:14 135:14,16,20 135:20 136:23 139:20 142:9 143:18 145:12 147:17 151:10 155:4 162:1,2 164:17 172:10 174:18 175:4 185:18 197:16 202:9 October 16, 2024 Page 4 ad 27:15 34:18 adapting 36:21 add 81:15 82:11 152:11 168:1 added 32:18 89:24 addition 12:8 196:14 additional 10:19 38:21 42:15 43:2 44:10 142:14 address 20:20 34:8 57:23 126:24 130:14 addressed 9:11 addresses 46:17 adds 67:8 adhere 74:2 adjourn 3:12 207:8 adjourned 207:14 adjustment 88:10 adjustments 200:11,16 administration 9:3 admit 67:18 adolph 41:14 adopt 99:8,12 99:13 164:14 171:2 177:17 182:20 adopted 148:23 178:19 185:15 adopting 30:19 66:21 178:25 181:23 adorned 10:1 adornment 11:13 adult 48:8 advertise 27:15 advertising 27:17 advisement 202:14 advisory 1:3,12 74:16 208:3 advocate 62:17 70:15 78:24 113:15 advocated 82:15 advocating 21:1 64:6 105:17 112:23 140:3 150:24 aesthetic 15:20 aesthetically 204:19 affairs 2:13,15 2:16 8:10,16 8:17 afford 52:2 affordable 160:4 afloat 147:13 afraid 165:11 african 21:15 200:7 204:9,21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 204:21 afterward 162:9 age 50:17 124:24 agenda 6:13 ages 60:4 80:15 ago 51:21 68:19 91:6 127:4 144:15 154:24 198:7 agree 18:2 25:10,17 48:3 84:23 108:1 116:14 117:22 117:25 120:20 120:22 154:8 154:11 159:20 172:15 192:18 192:18 ahead 90:25 176:1 177:7 alan 101:11 alfen 1:14,17 4:3,19,22 5:4 5:10,19,21,25 6:3,8,9 7:4,12 7:15,18,21,24 8:2,5,8,12,15 14:2 16:25 17:24 19:8 20:12 22:24 25:5 26:20 28:10 30:25 32:10,23 33:8 33:20 34:5 35:22 36:23 37:8,16,19 Meeting [alfen - animatronic] 40:20 45:23 47:24 48:24 50:24 53:9 55:18 57:22 61:11 64:24 66:7,9 69:11 69:24 70:3,23 71:3,13 72:14 79:4 81:5 82:8 83:6 84:4 85:19,22 87:12 88:22 92:13 93:17 94:18 95:6,25 96:4 99:6 102:10,12 102:19 104:16 105:8,18 106:21 107:17 108:5,9 111:9 113:8 114:9 116:3 117:19 119:10 121:2 124:6 126:22 127:24 128:8,9 130:10,23 132:4,9,11,15 133:20 134:1 135:1 136:17 137:15 139:8 140:5,11,21 141:6 142:3,7 142:17,20 143:17 145:15 145:21 146:12 148:4,14 149:12 150:3 151:19 152:4,8 153:3,14 154:7 October 16, 2024 Page 5 154:9,16,22,25 156:10 157:4 157:13 159:2 160:16,23,24 161:16,19,23 162:12,17 163:1,6,10,16 163:23 164:8 164:22 165:1,6 165:10,25 166:3,6,9,18 167:5,7,11,20 168:5,14,18,23 169:4,10,16,25 170:13,16,22 171:7,14,18,22 172:2,15 173:2 173:12,16,22 174:8,11 175:17,21 176:4,11,20,24 177:15,23 178:2,17,23 179:7,13,19 180:2,11,14,17 180:21,24 181:6,11,14,18 181:21 182:4,9 182:18 183:5 183:11,17,21 184:21 185:5,9 186:14,21 187:1,21,25 188:4,10,16 189:1 190:2,9 190:16,24 191:6,22 192:7 192:12,16,22 193:18,22 194:2,5,11,16 195:6,21 196:12,24 197:5,14,19 198:13 199:13 199:18 200:13 200:22 201:3 201:16,19,23 202:9,24 203:6 203:16 204:24 205:3,15 206:21 207:10 207:13 align 59:7 aligned 98:13 aligning 94:8 alignment 107:6 allegorical 65:4 allegory 80:15 allow 38:23 39:18 allowing 39:9 allows 16:16 allusion 29:9 ally 101:25 alright 151:19 alternative 25:15 amazing 83:5 95:12 113:7 206:5 amendable 146:18 amendment 76:11,13,16 164:5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 america 11:1 35:8 42:14 61:19 62:8,9 75:12 130:17 141:12 189:8 america's 10:11,24 12:10 74:22 75:6,15 75:17 american 1:23 5:1 10:7,14 11:5,25 12:15 13:3,14 21:16 31:13 32:5 35:11 43:6 45:3 55:5 56:16 58:9 61:6 74:25 75:1,8,19,21 76:2 100:25 110:2 114:22 120:6 137:4,11 138:1,4 139:3 185:20 americana 134:11 americans 59:4 75:4,10,16,21 80:21 200:8 204:9,10,21,21 amplify 10:17 42:15 ancient 147:8 animation 84:19 animatronic 123:21 Meeting [ann - associated] ann 2:17 9:3 34:7 35:23 68:10 anne 175:19 annelisa 2:5 6:5 22:25 23:3 28:5 48:25 49:3 84:5 91:12 117:20 146:13,15 148:4,12 155:1 155:3 192:8,9 203:14,20,21 annelisa's 98:21 anniversary 15:9 73:16 announce 4:12 announcement 5:19 answer 107:14 142:21 199:7 anticipated 42:10 anticipation 37:12 anybody 129:2 130:18 anyone's 94:4 94:6 anyway 26:7 26:19 27:1,20 35:20 51:25 69:9 104:13 127:22 144:21 apathetic 60:10 aphorism 44:25 October 16, 2024 Page 6 apologize 26:23 134:18 apparently 135:12 appeal 53:6 67:16 115:18 appealing 24:4 31:23 68:7 appears 41:8 195:9 applause 81:13 206:18,20 appreciate 34:11,19 46:20 105:13 appreciated 19:15 approached 55:21 appropriate 17:10,20 58:21 63:7 109:18 146:11 152:3 177:14 202:7 approve 166:4 166:10 179:18 approved 187:5 198:7 approximately 4:8 april 2:8 7:9 9:15 33:12 40:24,25 65:20 133:24 135:1 175:18 185:11 187:22 203:6 april's 144:18 184:9 aqueduct 119:17,21 arc 12:15 82:19 82:25 114:17 114:19 139:25 150:23 189:22 arced 45:1 arched 144:9 arches 119:17 architectural 66:3,5 archives 9:1,2 34:24 arcs 45:8 areas 133:18 143:10 144:6 argument 22:3 56:15 arm 42:21 arrows 13:13 art 16:18 19:9 19:12 20:12 32:25 33:2 61:15 64:24 66:7 69:16 81:5 102:10 104:16,17,18 113:9,10 119:15 146:5,6 146:16 151:21 169:3,21 171:5 173:19 176:1,4 176:6 193:11 193:12 201:25 art's 28:11 106:25 arthur 1:20 4:17 65:1 81:6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 177:25 179:25 185:7 207:11 articulately 25:8 artist 36:19 54:18 95:16 107:20 artistic 14:20 15:17 54:16 96:5,8 101:13 109:13 126:9 144:16 artistically 46:20 96:19 121:24 122:18 artists 26:8,13 42:6 65:21 83:10 84:10 135:24 202:12 202:14 arts 1:25 5:8 93:22 aside 21:6 69:14 asked 14:19 70:7 asking 172:1 aspects 22:8 aspirations 10:11 44:13 assassination 41:6 assemble 83:12 assign 16:16 assigned 102:9 associated 91:4 137:7,7 Meeting [association - bernstein] association 134:10 assume 173:7 174:1 attendance 7:7 attention 33:25 65:19 116:18 133:21 183:2 attraction 67:17 attractive 19:18 28:13 68:4 authority 38:2 38:22 101:5 available 141:13 160:9 184:10 avoid 151:14 156:18 aware 6:23 awareness 75:17 174:15 awful 52:8 aye 197:13,18 b b 157:10 back 4:4 14:18 17:19 23:14 29:4 37:9 38:5 38:6,16 39:22 49:13 59:11 60:8 63:25 64:10 71:9,13 80:16 109:6,13 109:25 111:1 113:9 116:7,12 117:6,12 118:22 121:8 126:17,23,23 130:6 136:19 138:21 139:3 139:20 140:25 141:8,16 142:1 148:2 160:12 160:18,25 167:12 176:24 178:14 180:6 182:13 190:22 197:2,3 202:22 backdrop 45:3 backgrounds 60:4 75:11 backside 177:13 bad 79:19 120:12 badge 114:7 baijal 2:11 7:24 8:1 balance 113:24 balanced 196:2 bands 25:25 26:1 banner 13:5,9 13:11 barber 130:1 barbers 86:15 barely 97:23 barrier 45:9 bas 152:16 based 42:5 46:24 69:3 76:25 82:5 158:9 200:8 October 16, 2024 Page 7 basically 113:6 123:12 124:16 160:9 189:20 basis 67:16 149:8 bask 207:3 battle 11:13 bean 52:23 bearable 137:9 beard 201:8 202:7 beards 201:10 201:13 bearing 11:7 43:18 114:3 149:20 bears 11:23 95:7 beating 13:4 beatniks 201:11 beautiful 48:20 49:15 50:11 59:6 85:16 89:4 91:8 119:4 130:20 155:21 157:18 beautifully 50:15 beg 174:13 beginning 38:4 155:16 170:23 202:17 204:11 begins 72:15 behalf 34:21 144:18,18 beings 65:5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 beliefs 75:11 believe 6:11 23:17 31:19 34:22 48:19 78:19 109:7 129:8,17 132:17 133:22 145:24 165:8 192:10 200:3 202:4 bell 41:19 114:16 115:4 116:15 120:21 121:15,16 132:20 133:4 134:3,11 135:4 135:5 136:23 137:5,6,10,22 139:15 171:4 184:16,24 185:1,14 ben 138:13 bend 81:24 benefit 21:11 benjamin 41:16 62:10 112:11 136:16 192:4 bernstein 1:20 4:17,18,21 19:9,11,12 33:1,2 64:24 65:1,2 81:6,7 81:14 82:6 104:18,19,22 113:10,11 146:6,7 151:21 151:22 169:3,3 Meeting [bernstein - burning] 169:22 171:5,5 173:19,20 176:6,7 177:25 177:25 179:25 179:25 185:7,7 185:10 186:12 193:12,13,20 202:1 207:11 207:11 best 18:4 19:7 33:19 36:14 55:4 60:7 121:16 158:7 164:16 bet 22:23 better 21:4 25:19 27:25 28:2,7 48:15 49:20 50:6 53:4 54:1 57:5 57:6 58:7,10 70:20 78:13,18 88:6 106:10,12 113:24 116:15 118:18 120:21 132:20,25,25 138:8 141:5 148:17 153:23 155:14 156:2,3 159:15 biased 111:24 bicentennial 41:21 69:17 139:23 141:1 big 18:22 21:24 23:4 26:12 49:18 51:12 55:13 62:13 October 16, 2024 Page 8 64:10,11,11,12 65:9 80:24 81:3 110:12 150:11 153:13 201:8 bigger 51:16 190:1 bill 44:16 billowing 12:9 biloxi 136:10 bind 75:3 bio 145:7 bit 18:22 21:3 33:3 35:17 47:11 51:17 70:20 71:19 73:21 80:4,21 82:1 84:25 85:6 86:7 88:7 93:13 97:1,10 97:11 100:21 113:24 118:1 122:20 125:9 126:16 131:14 138:8,9,16 141:5 143:14 201:17 black 144:4 204:9 blank 20:2,6 blind 123:19 blob 66:25 blow 117:5 boat 78:17 109:3 body 92:24 bold 10:24 42:7 53:25 54:7,19 64:10,13 65:21 65:22 67:13 68:4 96:24 110:6 145:10 156:21 bolder 189:6 190:8 bonds 13:23 boneza 2:10 7:21 9:16 40:25 bookend 10:9 48:18 70:17 110:23 111:2 bookends 33:14 border 45:1 105:1 106:17 106:25 107:8 143:22 153:1 borderline 107:3 borders 107:12 boston 11:17 bothered 65:14 101:24,25 bottom 159:5,7 195:15,20 bound 151:13 brain 59:23 brainer 25:10 148:24 break 37:3 71:9 126:15,17 126:23 128:1 128:10,20 breaks 165:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 brendan 2:15 8:15 bridge 110:19 115:15 bridges 83:16 85:13 95:11,12 95:15 105:17 110:20 187:17 200:4 brief 20:19 46:11 49:8 147:7 briefly 139:12 bright 43:14 53:17 brilliant 68:20 bring 174:14 bringing 69:25 brings 103:5 115:5 189:10 britain 94:22 british 11:21 broader 189:22 200:8 broadly 202:22 203:2 bros 147:5 brought 58:2 133:21 206:7 brow 43:13 buck 19:12 bucking 28:11 bunch 148:8 buoy 175:4 burgeoning 11:24 burning 24:19 Meeting [burns - chair] burns 13:22 bushy 201:8,10 business 61:21 bust 99:4 187:9 busy 51:17 butter 27:16,16 c c 3:1 4:1 208:1 208:1 call 3:2,2 4:4 4:16 42:23 65:19 70:7 136:21 207:8 callback 12:14 called 7:8 147:4 calling 85:24 191:13 camera 130:11 candidate 3:3,4 6:15 13:25 43:4 45:21 candidates 9:15 40:23 71:6 cap 9:25 11:23 12:3 19:16,17 31:12,20 86:9 86:14,15,19,21 87:3 capable 15:10 capitol 44:6 47:18 66:4 capozzola 1:22 4:25 5:3 20:14 20:16,17 46:9 46:10,11 82:9 October 16, 2024 Page 9 82:10 105:9,10 105:24 114:11 114:12 139:10 139:11 150:4,4 151:11 163:21 163:22 172:21 172:22 184:8,9 185:4 195:13 capture 58:4,5 92:9 captures 91:11 91:12 137:11 care 43:11,25 45:18 113:13 careful 28:5 carried 151:13 188:18 carries 43:15 170:17 171:19 174:12 176:21 179:14 181:7 182:10 183:24 186:22 191:8 197:21 203:18 carry 57:5 167:12 173:17 carrying 13:13 43:6 48:6 51:14 65:5 158:21 carving 60:12 case 30:18 47:10 57:1,20 60:22 62:19 66:16 106:10 118:17 167:21 cases 135:23 catching 55:5 caught 167:17 caution 107:5 ccac 1:16,19 2:13,14 4:4 6:11,22 8:10 8:13 37:2 71:14 127:6 139:18 184:16 184:23 celebrate 74:23 75:8 celebrating 75:15 celebration 56:12 73:15 cell 141:12 cent 27:16,17 41:3 114:21 115:14 121:17 125:16,24 141:1 195:25 198:6,25 centennial 56:11 center 9:1 66:25 92:18 193:5 194:7 195:11,17 196:8 centering 175:13 centerline 189:16 cents 52:3 111:25 120:18 124:4 196:7,14 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 century 29:14 29:15 101:19 104:1,2 125:19 certain 63:15 67:20 87:2 155:9 certainly 30:18 35:14 52:15 66:17 67:11 68:2 100:25 101:7 139:12 157:18 168:5 172:17 certify 208:2 cetera 58:14 cfa 167:25 chain 137:1 chains 138:2 138:17 chair 1:14 4:3 4:19,22 5:4,10 5:21,25 6:3,8 7:4,12,15,18 7:21,24 8:2,5,8 8:12,15 14:2 16:25 17:24 19:8 20:12 22:24 25:5 26:20 28:10 30:25 32:10,23 33:8,20 34:5 35:22 36:23 37:8,16,19 40:20 45:23 47:24 48:24 50:24 53:9 55:18 57:22 61:11 64:24 Meeting [chair - choices] 66:7,9 69:11 69:24 70:3,23 71:3,13 72:14 79:4 81:5 82:8 83:6 84:4 85:19,22 87:12 88:22 92:13 95:25 96:4 99:6 102:10,12 102:19 104:16 105:8,18 106:21 107:17 108:5,9 109:13 110:1 111:9 112:10,14,15 113:8,16 114:9 115:12,13 116:3,21,22,25 117:5,11,12,19 118:1 119:10 119:14,23 121:2 122:14 124:6,21 125:5 126:22 127:24 128:8 130:10 130:23 132:4,9 132:11,15 133:20 134:1 135:1 136:17 137:15 139:8 140:5,11,21 141:6,8,15,25 142:3,7,17,20 143:6,17 145:15,21 146:12 148:4 148:14 149:12 150:3 151:19 October 16, 2024 Page 10 152:4,8 153:3 153:14 154:7,9 154:16,22,25 156:10 157:4 157:13 159:2 160:16,23 161:16,19,23 162:12,17 163:1,6,10,16 163:23 164:8 164:22 165:1,6 165:8,10,25 166:3,6,9,18 167:5,7,11,20 168:5,14,18,23 169:4,10,16,25 170:13,16,22 171:7,14,18,22 172:2,15 173:2 173:12,16,22 174:8,11,17 175:2,17,21 176:4,11,20,24 177:15,23 178:2,17,23 179:7,13,19 180:2,11,14,17 180:21,24 181:6,11,14,18 181:21 182:4,9 182:18 183:5 183:11,17,21 184:21 185:5,9 186:14,21 187:1,21,25 188:4,10,16 189:1 190:2,9 190:16,24 191:6,22 192:7 192:12,16,22 193:18,22 194:2,5,11,16 195:6,21 196:12,24 197:5,14,19 198:13 199:13 199:18 200:13 200:22 201:3 201:16,19,23 202:9,24 203:6 203:16 204:24 205:3,15 206:21 207:10 207:13 chairman 17:4 17:23 23:2 48:2 49:3 83:8 84:7 93:17 113:18 116:5 117:22 130:13 146:15 155:3 162:22 chairperson 1:18 6:11 challenge 55:11,12 117:23,23,24 challenging 75:20 chance 52:1 73:20 97:13 137:19 change 21:24 39:8 78:24 97:18 98:11 99:4 100:3,17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 100:19,19 103:22 108:15 111:15,16,20 149:7 153:17 153:17 154:3 177:13 changed 39:15 60:17 78:10 176:9,16 changes 177:2 177:18 179:2 changing 100:15 110:16 130:4 chapter 22:16 character 107:15 chief 2:11,14 7:9 8:2,13 194:17 child 43:24 49:12 118:19 155:13 156:4 157:8 200:17 204:14 children 50:7 chime 34:11 35:21 choice 10:16 20:23 21:5 25:9 47:12 48:10 56:8 57:21,23 78:15 78:21 83:19 111:15 132:20 choices 21:13 50:20 119:5 120:14 Meeting [choose - coinability] choose 18:23 49:16 60:11 choosing 176:22 chorus 37:18 chose 17:8 52:17 83:22 84:1 90:13 123:25 chosen 33:23 47:16 48:14 70:11 91:18 119:9 125:15 172:12 chris 5:5 20:17 46:11 59:12 82:8,10 105:8 105:9 114:10 114:12 116:14 120:20 124:10 124:15 132:19 139:9,10 150:3 150:4 151:11 163:21,23 172:20,22 184:8 195:12 christopher 1:22 4:25 20:14 46:8 48:3 chronological 28:19,25 29:18 chronologica... 47:22 chuck 5:18 circle 105:3 107:9 110:12 194:15,19,21 October 16, 2024 Page 11 circulate 51:25 195:18 circulating 3:8 3:11 10:21 39:6 51:24 52:7 59:19 72:18 73:14 98:2,7 160:8 circulation 54:10 160:12 circumference 189:19 citizen 42:4 76:24 citizens 1:3,12 44:7 74:15 208:3 citizenship 42:24 civic 75:2 civil 22:18 51:4 51:5,6 76:17 79:13 83:15 89:1 110:17 116:9 123:1 126:1,4 152:5 177:4 179:16 181:3 199:23 203:25 clamoring 80:15 clarification 37:24 38:22 165:14 199:11 199:16 clarify 37:25 159:4 clarity 14:20 15:7 16:13 40:11,19 71:19 clashes 140:24 classes 116:18 classic 52:14 classical 89:12 121:21 classically 89:14 clear 14:22 15:19 118:20 123:23 124:3 148:22 154:17 155:16 clearly 47:7 52:21 90:7 137:2 184:12 clever 82:2 close 44:2 45:13 56:13 109:2 121:4,18 123:14 147:9 closely 103:22 108:16 118:3 closer 80:22 103:20 119:20 131:23 189:24 189:24 club 88:4 clutter 31:10 clutters 159:16 cohere 77:7 coherent 82:12 coheres 115:7 cohesive 15:8 77:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 cohesiveness 66:15 96:10,16 96:22 coin 3:9,11 7:3 14:23 15:15 18:22 23:22 27:12,13 41:4 50:4 51:18,24 52:7,7 55:12 57:15 58:24 59:19 61:17 62:13 63:14,21 64:2 67:1 69:25 78:12 80:24 87:25 92:17 97:6 98:2,7 101:3 101:21 106:7 106:24 107:11 112:8 115:6,6 116:15 120:18 123:4 129:23 131:13 132:21 133:1 141:9 145:2 146:23 147:15 149:10 151:8 153:19 153:21 154:1,6 155:7,20,21 156:19 157:15 157:18,19 158:8,9 159:25 160:8 177:20 189:11 197:8 198:15 coin's 10:17 coinability 36:3 Meeting [coinage - committee] coinage 1:3,12 10:14 11:5,25 12:15 29:9,17 29:24 30:8 31:13 48:19 54:15 74:15 87:2 101:14 126:4 129:19 130:1 139:24 161:3 208:3 coinages 161:5 coincidentally 107:13 coinnews 7:2 coins 3:9,11 6:18 10:21 50:8,13 52:16 55:11 62:18 66:13 72:19 74:23 75:7,16 75:24 77:6,7 77:14 80:3 87:8,18 89:18 92:16 101:1 102:2,4 105:14 120:19 128:14 129:1 138:23 144:13 151:5 161:8,10 175:9 177:3 colin 101:25 colleague 34:22 colleagues 83:20 133:2 collect 25:24 collecting 80:18 103:21 October 16, 2024 Page 12 collective 44:21 collector 39:8 59:23 87:1 120:18 collectors 15:1 25:24 51:21 60:3 84:14 87:6 130:2 138:4 139:1 college 201:12 collins 147:5 colonial 11:17 colonies 13:1 13:21,25 colonist 138:18 colonists 12:23 13:15 combination 10:8 19:17 174:16 combined 69:7 combines 12:2 combining 68:19 come 32:3 35:12,17 38:1 54:19 69:23 77:25 79:1,8 85:17 97:8 102:22 125:10 126:17 176:24 204:7 comes 135:13 189:23 comfort 99:23 99:24 comfortable 80:2 83:18 coming 35:2 39:13 68:2 123:19 129:17 139:11 161:19 commemorate 22:10,11 commemorates 76:1 commemorat... 13:9 39:12 commemorat... 106:6 156:14 156:19 157:16 commend 83:20 commended 26:9 comment 35:15 65:10 129:3 136:22 160:16 185:8 194:14 196:16 200:4 203:22 204:25 commentary 192:20 commented 52:22 commenting 188:6 comments 14:9 17:6 20:19 28:10 30:24 31:2 33:9 34:5 34:6,13,20 35:2,23 36:9 36:24 46:5 66:9 68:11,14 69:10,12 70:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 70:24 88:1 93:18 103:24 105:11 106:22 107:5,17 108:11 110:25 111:12 117:18 132:16 137:15 140:7 143:18 145:23 146:2,5 152:4,6 153:14 155:1,4 157:13 164:12 192:8 199:15 200:4,5 205:16 commercial 34:15 commission 133:23 commissions 74:16 committee 1:3 1:13 4:15 14:4 32:25 34:6,9 36:25 37:16 45:25 67:12 69:12 72:18 73:18,24 74:16 77:21 78:20 83:4,10 84:8 97:3 118:23 122:2 127:17 127:22 142:9 145:1 161:2 162:19 169:17 172:8 188:2 196:17 199:25 204:18 206:11 206:15 207:4 Meeting [committee - consistency] 208:4 common 75:19 commonly 149:2 communicate 184:13,15 communicated 136:2 186:3 communicates 46:21 47:19 community 80:18 compactly 103:4 compare 57:18 compared 123:6 141:17 compelling 21:22 22:16 30:15 46:13,17 46:25 56:15 57:1,15 58:19 68:23 69:6 96:24 competent 15:10 competing 181:19 complaining 87:6 complaint 32:1 complement 42:9 48:22 complements 141:9 complete 32:2 73:14 completely 85:7 complex 15:25 147:7 complicated 22:7 149:1 161:6 complimenting 81:7 comply 39:16 composition 24:3 36:12 49:14 compositiona... 36:16 95:7 145:6 compressed 198:20 comprising 42:1 computer 123:3 computers 141:13 conceived 74:12 77:9 concept 32:13 62:8 conception 134:24 concepts 15:3 concern 28:15 30:12 80:4 97:1,2 102:24 124:7 129:10 158:23 174:25 concerned 26:15,16 October 16, 2024 Page 13 124:23 138:9 151:18 concerns 30:10 89:23,25 118:5 124:11,14 126:5 147:20 concise 16:20 concludes 13:25 45:21 conclusion 47:22 127:15 confident 43:17 confidently 49:19 confirm 7:6 150:16 195:18 confuse 144:22 confused 61:4 122:16 confusing 23:24 90:12 124:3 confusion 127:16 congratulate 83:9 205:21 congratulated 206:2,17 congratulatio... 60:17 84:2 congress 2:18 9:5 69:2 101:3 101:15,17 102:9 congruity 124:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 conjunction 74:15 connect 121:18 140:1 connection 63:16 66:11 67:25 125:6,8 connections 10:10 consensus 20:18 73:22 79:8 conservative 101:8,16 102:8 104:5 consider 9:14 22:4 40:22 42:7 47:21 73:5 75:10,21 78:3 88:9 91:24 97:10 100:15 130:9 131:9 136:24 138:20 152:15 177:8 199:22 205:6 consideration 12:6 14:8 24:2 146:19 considerations 23:4 24:17 considered 68:16 191:24 considering 21:17 50:7 147:15 192:19 consistency 61:14,15 62:24 Meeting [consistency - curator] 82:1 95:8 96:6 97:25 99:10,19 136:12 consistency's 187:14 consistent 26:1 63:3 79:11,17 89:7 91:25 94:24 107:1 198:11 constant 84:20 94:11 constantly 23:7 87:5 constitution 21:18 44:16 60:16 76:9 79:11 82:22 89:11 109:7,22 109:24 112:8 113:11 115:6 116:12 121:20 122:15 132:8 140:6 171:23 172:19 173:4 188:13 189:5,7 189:9,14,18,21 190:1,7,7,11 190:13 constitutional 174:5 constructing 82:17 construction 185:21 consult 196:19 consultation 197:6 October 16, 2024 Page 14 contemporary 48:12 content 119:4 context 154:4,5 continental 138:7,14 continentals 138:15 continuation 3:10 61:22 continue 60:24 126:8 continued 16:15 44:12 continuing 30:3 continuity 14:20,22 16:6 49:24 50:13 89:6 118:8 124:8,12 125:21,23 131:20 147:23 148:1 155:5 contractor 136:15 contrast 24:12 42:9 198:4 contribute 203:25 controversy 58:7 78:8 138:12 146:22 conversation 83:2 127:14 146:25 172:23 193:13 196:16 convey 36:3 151:3 184:22 206:6 conveying 139:16 conveys 106:11 150:1 convinced 60:15 cool 52:6,12 59:18 95:9 105:23 copper 138:4 cornerstone 64:8 cornet 17:13 18:7 coronet 11:6 14:25 18:7 19:6 correct 34:4 133:24 142:18 151:22 159:5 163:2,7 177:21 177:22 183:14 184:25 185:3,4 188:18 190:14 194:8 197:7 200:20 202:11 costello 2:12 8:5,7 107:6 costs 52:3 counsel 2:14,14 8:13,13 37:2 71:14 208:11 208:15 count 182:3 203:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 counted 167:6 countless 122:2 country 22:7 59:21 70:21 84:21 91:7 134:20 155:17 couple 31:14 35:15 88:16 93:18 150:5 201:11 coupled 139:6 course 41:20 54:7 60:21 61:7 70:14 73:9,12,15 77:4 112:1 118:13 138:23 204:16 206:9 206:24 207:4 court 208:22 coverage 95:17 covered 92:3 crazy 24:11 create 66:25 155:15 creation 13:20 creativity 22:1 crickets 140:7 cried 20:11 critical 32:20 42:4 64:16 76:24 crown 12:1 culminated 76:10 curator 1:18 6:10 Meeting [currency - design] currency 10:15 73:15 138:7,14 current 9:20 21:25 29:25 35:20 41:3 55:3 60:10 77:24 104:3 144:16 currently 6:10 190:11,13 customs 75:11 cuts 131:2,3 d d 4:1 9:23 d.c. 1:14 daily 67:16 damn 31:20 dampen 195:4 dark 133:18 143:10,12 dash 81:22,24 date 10:20 18:10 31:9 42:17 54:4 187:6 208:6 dates 17:14 21:3 106:18 187:17 198:3,7 daughter 91:10 91:24 day 4:6,6 16:12 67:19 82:13 days 67:20 82:6 207:4 dc 60:2 208:7 dead 26:6 87:5 87:6 October 16, 2024 Page 15 deal 51:12 144:21 158:20 197:4 dealt 6:18 death 9:22 decently 92:4 decide 74:3 197:3,7 decided 129:18 198:5 205:19 decidedly 29:5 decides 207:1 decision 81:16 175:6 decisions 168:2 declaration 21:18 28:21 44:15 59:15 60:1 73:17 76:3,6,8 79:10 82:21 84:24 89:24 90:2,7 111:22 114:16 115:1,21 116:13 121:5 121:10 125:13 132:5,8,12,21 134:12 137:3 137:16 141:23 170:24 174:20 174:22 175:14 184:1 185:3,15 declare 132:23 declared 115:2 decorative 11:14 deeper 75:17 defend 102:15 109:11 defer 118:23 204:16 define 74:25 defining 74:22 89:17,17 definitely 143:24 degree 28:12 158:3,3 delay 91:19 deliberate 35:9 199:8 deliberately 107:10,13 205:2 delimiter 106:18 198:16 198:19,25 delineation 155:16 delivering 101:3 demeanor 36:21 94:22,22 democracies 86:6 democracy 42:5 44:20 69:3 76:25 democratic 12:11 75:18 denomination 32:17 80:24 160:14 denominatio... 138:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 department 113:4 depending 21:13 depends 187:18 depict 10:13 11:4 12:17,20 13:3,17 21:8 43:5 183:13 202:10 depicted 21:20 41:18 89:15 174:21 200:18 203:8 depiction 10:3 15:9 42:12 67:13 89:12 depictions 21:12 29:1,4 87:7 depicts 43:23 45:13 89:13 deposition 208:13 deputy 2:8,14 8:12 described 22:4 describing 68:15,19 description 184:17 desegregation 204:12 design 2:8,9,9 2:10,10,11,12 7:10,13,16,19 7:22,25 8:6 Meeting [design - dime] 9:15,19 11:6 12:25 14:17 15:19 16:1,19 19:21,23 20:3 23:8,18,19,23 24:12,15,23 25:15 26:10 27:24 28:4 32:20 36:14 38:11 40:4,17 40:23 41:3 43:12,15 44:10 48:20 49:11,21 50:11,22 51:16 52:4,11,23 53:5,5 54:24 55:8 59:6 60:9 60:12,20 65:24 66:4,16 71:6 72:3,12 74:19 78:18,19 81:2 81:18 89:5,25 90:6,10,23 91:5,8 95:12 98:9,24 100:9 103:18,23 104:2 105:1,4 106:20 109:12 110:15 113:14 113:16,23,25 114:2,7,22 117:3,16,25 118:9 121:7,21 121:23 122:3 123:8,25 124:21 125:3 126:6 127:13 129:7 130:5 October 16, 2024 Page 16 131:20 136:12 137:1,2,8 138:5,10 139:6 141:4,17 142:1 142:11,17 143:1,3 146:8 147:14 152:3 156:23 157:1 157:23 158:11 158:13 160:13 162:9,13,14 172:12 182:23 184:6 187:8,17 188:22 191:11 191:19 193:10 196:17 197:23 198:15 199:5 203:20 204:10 204:22 205:5 205:12,22 designed 74:13 136:15 designing 107:24 designs 3:3,4 6:15 10:13,23 11:3 12:19 14:1,5 15:4 23:6 24:7 27:1 27:6 28:14 42:6,12,18,23 43:4 44:5 45:22,25 48:14 49:7 52:16 58:4,6,17 59:25 62:17 65:3,11,17 66:15 72:25 73:2,5,10,21 74:4 77:4,6 79:8,21 84:11 85:9 88:25 89:10 92:9 96:20,23 98:11 101:4,21 102:2 102:3 104:1,2 104:10 105:2 119:5,12 122:20 124:19 125:25 128:12 128:13,25 133:16 142:13 145:2 156:8 162:2,2,3 172:7 182:12 182:13,24 187:5 206:10 detail 47:13,14 147:18 detailed 87:20 details 58:12 68:5 178:14 determination 13:6 determined 11:19 develop 75:17 developed 74:20 75:24 127:7 deviate 91:22 deviation 21:25 devised 127:3 diameter 15:18 diametrically 122:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 dictum 45:7 die 112:2 difference 37:14 different 22:8,8 38:11,15 39:13 51:10 55:22 60:4 77:14 94:14 119:16 162:7 172:11 187:8 204:6 difficult 24:21 103:12 dig 109:16 dime 3:3,7 6:15 8:24 9:15,20 9:21,24 10:2,9 11:1 13:11 14:5,15,23 15:2,18 16:1,7 16:21 17:8,11 20:1,6 21:25 23:6,8,14,20 24:6,15 25:2 26:9,17,19 28:4,9,16 29:7 29:25 30:11,13 31:10,22 32:18 33:13,19 34:25 35:7 37:1,20 38:4,16,19 41:13 42:1,11 76:1 77:10 78:16,18,25 79:24 81:18 83:2,3,21 86:8 86:13 87:3,11 88:5,12,19 Meeting [dime - dollars] 89:2,6 90:1 93:1 94:1,7,9 94:14 96:7 98:13,20,23,25 99:5,16 102:22 103:3,8,10 104:13 110:21 122:21 123:2,6 123:7 125:12 125:14,20 129:1,5,10,25 131:25 161:13 162:17 164:15 169:19 170:9 170:19 182:19 182:20 dime's 9:19 10:5 dimensionality 144:2 dimensionally 145:4 dimensions 145:6 dimes 25:24 39:24,24 100:3 129:15 diminutive 129:10 direction 52:10 56:14 88:2 99:15 101:12 101:13,20 142:16 175:7 208:9 directions 55:22 October 16, 2024 Page 17 directly 118:15 director 2:8,13 2:17 8:9 9:1,3 disagreement 172:6 disappointed 90:17 disclosure 129:7 discretion 38:6 discuss 68:2 71:4 73:3,20 97:13 126:8 196:1 discussed 100:20 114:15 128:16 discussing 69:15 discussion 3:3 3:4,6,8,10 6:14 6:16 14:6 15:11 46:2,15 46:16,22 61:8 73:4 97:11 113:11 126:15 126:18 127:18 128:17,24 132:18 147:1 162:4 163:25 164:12 167:1 170:6 171:7 173:7 174:2 176:12 178:3 186:16 188:11 192:20 193:9 201:24 discussions 35:5 161:9 disjunction 124:16 disme 129:13 131:11 display 204:3 dispositive 127:12 distance 34:12 distinctive 105:4 diverse 21:16 75:6,11 130:18 diversify 202:15 diversity 50:16 200:19 203:9 203:24 divided 54:4 document 134:15,24 145:10 documents 44:14 134:8 dog 31:17 doing 6:20 16:10 52:10 62:5 74:9 77:14 91:24 102:5,7 104:9 139:16 152:15 157:24 158:16 207:7 dollar 3:5,7 6:16 8:25 10:8 28:17 29:13,13 33:14,17 37:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 37:21 39:5,6,7 39:10,16 40:24 41:4,9,12,18 41:21,24 42:2 43:3 46:1,25 47:4,13,21 50:12 51:16 52:12 54:2,8 56:11 58:1,5 58:11,22 59:14 62:15 63:14,23 64:1,4,4,12 69:18 70:10,16 71:6,16,21 76:21 77:11 78:13 81:2 82:23 90:20,23 90:24 91:9 94:24 96:18 98:4 100:6 102:15,18 104:4 106:1,4 106:6 108:14 110:24 111:14 111:17,21 115:25 118:6 123:17 148:18 150:20 153:4 155:20 181:8 181:25 196:2,9 196:13 205:7 dollar's 41:3 42:15 dollars 10:10 37:15 48:10 51:25 54:9 80:23 138:7 Meeting [dome - either] dome 44:6 dominant 26:11 don 120:22 154:8 190:18 191:2 196:24 donald 2:3 5:16 25:5 30:12 37:24 38:1,18 61:11 85:19 87:12 102:13 111:10 111:11 113:8 135:2 148:14 151:23,23 153:15 154:12 157:14 159:4 170:5 179:19 181:11 197:2 donald's 70:18 70:19 103:24 105:25 double 187:6 doubt 67:23 doubtless 139:22 douglas 107:22 douglass 80:5 88:25 92:17,21 97:6 99:15 104:25 105:4 105:19 106:24 107:21 133:8 155:5 191:25 192:11 douglass's 110:13 October 16, 2024 Page 18 dour 95:2 dr 1:22 4:22,25 20:14 46:8 94:18 95:6 drafted 144:5 drafting 42:6 76:3,9 dramatic 68:7 draw 174:14 drawing 119:21 133:11 144:2 151:16 drawn 103:2 133:17 dress 12:9 58:13 66:24,24 67:2,3 dresses 49:11 drop 177:11 dual 18:10 31:9 due 95:4 duly 208:8 duplication 195:10 dutch 86:3,4,5 dynamic 58:5 67:5 dynamism 12:10 30:15 61:2 e e 3:1 4:1,1 11:1 13:19 25:20 43:3 79:11 106:18 150:11 153:24 159:12 159:15 208:1,1 eac 138:4 eagle 13:4,8,12 17:19 18:24 19:21 24:24 26:16,17 30:12 32:13,19 33:23 34:3 41:11 123:15 125:13 125:18,19,20 129:11,14,19 130:8 132:25 133:4 137:1,20 138:21 139:2 163:6 183:2,7 183:9,10,13 eagle's 13:5 eagles 129:16 138:22 eaglet 24:25 earlier 20:3 29:4,9,16 30:8 46:22 49:13 87:8 131:10 132:18 134:19 136:25 139:21 155:4 159:25 167:16 188:17 early 10:14 11:5,24 12:15 62:1,1 105:14 138:4 ease 145:6 easier 103:18 130:4 easiest 146:3 easily 32:4 90:2 90:9 146:18 192:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 easy 58:14 112:22 144:22 206:13 eating 70:13 echo 33:12 146:16 148:12 echoes 48:8 echoing 10:14 85:7 edge 105:4 editor 7:2,3 editorialize 36:14 educated 69:4 education 108:22 effect 54:13 effective 23:13 effectively 80:8 107:23 108:18 effort 43:25 44:12 112:19 169:22 egypt 147:8 eight 60:8 191:5,6 eighteen 72:9 either 15:24 19:16 25:9,18 57:7 64:17,19 79:19 85:15 90:14 100:7 111:14,15 115:20 133:3 142:15 149:16 156:17,17 159:10 189:14 205:11 Meeting [elected - excuse] elected 44:7 elegance 145:13 elegant 57:16 elegantly 144:24 element 106:20 158:18 187:8 elements 15:19 49:6 103:18 126:3 162:7 elevate 190:10 eleven 71:22 72:8 eliminates 31:14 elm 11:15 emanating 45:5 emblematic 10:23 137:2 embodied 10:24 emerging 20:18 82:17 emotion 91:11 empathy 75:10 emphasize 35:4 68:25 204:4 emphasized 108:19 emphasizes 42:4 emphasizing 76:23 empire 86:2 employed 187:20 208:12 October 16, 2024 Page 19 208:15 employee 208:14 empty 149:16 encounter 89:19 encourage 77:5 encouraged 42:7 encourages 131:23 endorse 184:13 endorsing 131:3 enduring 45:14 energy 67:5 engaged 73:13 engagement 75:2 77:5 engaging 12:5 engraver 2:11 8:3 194:17 engraving 2:12 8:6 enjoy 61:6 125:11 enjoyed 34:12 68:13 enlightenment 12:21 ensure 44:1 ensuring 36:2 131:20 enterprise 82:12 entertain 169:20 entire 69:15 98:22 entirely 195:21 entitled 37:5 71:10 126:19 160:20 207:16 envision 103:10 equal 193:16 equality 75:3 equally 126:12 equitable 75:13 era 10:6 11:15 76:1 184:17 202:3 esoteric 125:9 especially 23:9 39:5 46:23 47:12 85:2 103:13 112:10 112:11 113:1 118:5 158:9 167:25 189:4 192:19 204:11 204:14 essentially 74:1 74:7 92:17 93:10,23 144:4 et 58:14 eternal 16:10 58:21 ethnic 17:9 200:5 evans 2:10 7:18 7:20 evening 95:17 evenly 167:22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 eventually 204:7 everybody 27:23 70:5 98:14 99:25 112:21 128:3 154:3 176:19 186:20 206:16 everybody's 30:24 everyday 204:21 evocative 55:11 85:9 evoke 15:20 63:21 90:7 evokes 155:9 evoking 63:20 evolution 22:18 exact 123:13 exactly 38:6 55:6 62:2 86:24 108:25 example 43:11 66:19 excellent 32:13 84:10 exceptions 62:7 201:9 exchanges 34:24 excite 90:11 excited 16:23 85:17 exciting 15:5 58:6 65:24 excuse 50:21 Meeting [execute - features] execute 202:17 exergue 54:4 exist 111:25 131:12 exists 15:15 95:2 expanding 189:20 expensive 160:4 experienced 61:25 experiencing 61:19 84:20 experiment 35:11 75:19 101:15 expert 135:10 185:25 192:1 experts 8:22 34:7 74:17 133:25 134:2,7 137:21 139:13 146:20 150:17 184:10 195:17 196:20 197:7 202:15 explain 119:24 explained 119:22 explaining 203:23 explanatory 17:6 117:4 explicit 15:8 121:14 explicitly 15:13 22:20 October 16, 2024 Page 20 exploded 81:10 explore 42:23 explores 10:6 42:2 76:5 express 158:8 expressed 10:11 63:12,13 158:22 expresses 130:17 expression 15:8 27:4,8,11 35:6 88:7,9 95:2 extend 84:7 extended 12:5 extent 160:11 eye 55:5 eyes 29:5 43:13 53:16 eyesight 103:14 f f 41:6 63:9,16 63:22 208:1 fabric 12:9 face 36:13,22 98:1 105:3 112:20 157:22 faces 11:21 96:2 99:7 facial 95:1 facilitate 193:13 facing 12:18 93:1,3,8,15,15 94:22,22 96:8 99:9,11,14,18 105:14,16,22 105:22 130:15 163:1 fact 56:1 59:20 90:1 133:10,16 192:12 194:21 200:7 fail 15:23 failed 166:19 188:17 fails 120:2 fair 60:13 75:12 fairly 126:2 familiar 15:3 23:10 familiarity 131:22 family 91:16 fan 55:13 95:16 138:23 fanatic 59:17 fanatically 58:20 fantastic 21:7 far 15:21 24:15 27:5 49:9 58:3 115:15 fashioned 29:8 faster 110:8 fathers 125:3,7 192:4 favor 51:15 120:17 141:3 164:14,18,23 165:2,11 167:3 167:5 168:20 168:25 169:6,7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 169:13 170:7 171:8 173:8 174:3 176:14 178:4,25 180:3 181:1,23 182:21 183:18 183:22,23 184:3 186:18 188:19 190:18 193:2 197:11 203:10 205:8 favorite 27:5 30:17 49:5,10 54:24 59:11 60:6,10 141:17 favorites 23:12 35:14 53:7 68:17 favors 169:17 feasible 195:3 feather 143:7,8 144:8 feathers 33:25 34:1,3 183:2,3 183:4,7,9,10 183:12 feature 10:3 11:11,18 12:13 42:13 44:23 45:10 66:5 featured 9:24 12:25 13:24 41:12 45:3 features 10:18 11:9 13:16 43:17,20 44:6 44:17 45:4,16 66:3 200:11,16 Meeting [featuring - fool] featuring 42:25 feel 54:17 60:24 67:18 120:12 165:17 165:22 175:12 206:11 feeling 155:9 189:3 feels 164:4 felt 18:13 35:6 82:1 91:20 139:18 144:18 144:19 fertile 44:19 field 39:10 153:1,1 fifteen 144:14 fifty 91:6 120:8 141:1 fight 13:15 204:12 figural 102:3 figurative 93:22 figure 43:10 202:10 figures 43:16 96:16 98:3 100:16 118:19 150:7 158:1 200:6 203:8 figuring 122:3 124:23 fill 80:8 fills 18:19 film 147:3,6,10 148:13 October 16, 2024 Page 21 final 41:25 74:8 76:20 100:22 finalizing 3:8 3:10 finally 4:11 8:19 72:12 76:17 140:19 181:8 financially 208:16 find 28:13 29:11 30:8 58:17 65:6 67:4 68:3 77:6 77:12 109:17 114:17 119:11 124:8,11 168:9 194:20 fine 88:21 152:9 156:17 171:20 fingertips 125:1 finish 59:10 finisher 114:6 first 9:13,21,24 23:25 24:11 26:22 41:4,9 41:15 49:20 51:2 61:3 65:10 72:18,23 75:25 76:7 77:17 78:4 79:9 81:9 86:1 87:24 89:19 93:9 94:13 97:15 111:22 116:25 119:12 119:16,18,25 120:2,19 123:24 127:5 129:17 131:1 138:25 150:5 150:21 162:9 162:13 166:19 175:25 183:3 188:25 189:2 190:1 193:15 fit 14:20 15:17 17:16 20:20 48:15 59:17 83:18 91:20 194:15,16,18 194:21 195:16 196:20 fits 50:13 60:7 84:19 113:25 150:23 fitting 195:1 five 10:9 14:10 28:21 46:5 56:11 72:1,6 76:6,18 77:10 108:16 116:1 164:25 165:1,6 165:11,11 167:9,22,23 171:12,12 173:15 179:6,7 189:24 193:2 195:25 196:14 200:11,16 fixtures 148:7 flag 43:6 45:3 53:23,24 58:14 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 65:5 149:5,6,7 150:17 151:9 flagged 134:16 flame 12:22 16:11 18:21 43:18 45:8,11 45:17 58:21 65:13,15 100:14 158:1 flames 23:25 flash 88:15 flatter 138:9 flight 13:4,13 33:25 34:3 183:2,3,10,12 flipping 50:3 105:17 158:15 158:17 162:5,6 floor 168:8 flow 80:6 flowing 10:1 12:14 105:2 122:8 flows 58:13 66:24 flowy 121:22 focus 61:22 164:11 186:9 folks 204:17 follow 97:20 135:3 following 7:6 8:25 follows 22:17 font 129:25 fonts 110:16 fool 27:19 Meeting [forefront - generations] forefront 204:10,22 forego 137:23 foregoing 208:2 forever 42:20 forget 94:20 forgot 135:5 forgotten 56:17 form 43:9 formed 13:18 86:2 former 95:5 forming 45:9 forth 29:2 74:18 118:22 148:11 forward 9:7 11:12 12:5 13:6 16:15 43:8 53:25 56:2,23 57:4 72:20 77:1 85:10 90:24 91:13 92:8 95:9,20 155:11 155:18 168:12 202:19 foster 75:12 founder 7:2 founding 10:12 44:13 75:18 76:1 125:3,7 134:8 139:17 184:17 192:4 four 41:5 68:18 119:15 164:20 164:23,25 165:19 167:4,5 171:12,12 173:15 182:21 fourteen 71:21 fourth 164:21 frame 38:20 framed 43:16 franklin 9:22 25:15 41:16 62:10 112:12 136:16 138:13 192:5 frederick 80:5 88:25 92:17,21 97:5 99:15 104:25 105:3 105:19 106:24 107:21,22 110:13 133:7 155:5 191:25 192:11 free 105:2 freedom 12:21 16:15 69:19 frequently 9:20 fresh 31:22 friendly 164:5 front 50:7 61:9 89:16,17 107:22 110:20 132:3 198:24 202:6 frontlines 204:13 frowning 83:23 fruition 85:18 fugio 111:25 114:21 115:14 October 16, 2024 Page 22 116:15 120:17 120:18 121:7 121:17 125:16 125:24 133:1 136:14 fulfill 44:13 66:18 full 25:25 92:24 129:7 149:15 fuller 4:23 fully 185:12 fun 27:12 functions 18:11 further 10:10 60:5 126:15,17 186:16,23 191:18 199:21 203:1,19 208:9 208:13 future 28:23 42:8 43:7,14 43:19 44:1,4 45:6,20 48:7 53:17 57:4,4 62:9 70:21 75:16 76:22 85:11 101:1,21 155:7 g g 4:1 gate 61:1 gaze 36:13 43:21 44:3 gelberd 2:4 5:22,24 17:25 18:1,2 33:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 33:11 53:10,12 53:13 69:14 79:5 109:20,20 129:4,4 137:18 137:19 141:7,7 152:10,12,23 156:12,12 159:3,7,11,20 196:4,5 201:22 gelberd's 166:25 genders 60:4 general 1:20 2:5,5 4:20 6:1 6:6 24:3 46:1 92:11 113:12 117:2 124:23 126:24 128:24 130:3 134:10 134:20 139:16 184:16,25 203:22 generally 88:2 165:16 169:17 172:13 generation 43:22 44:24 45:12 50:2 62:5,23 63:10 63:17 64:3,3 64:14,20 75:20 111:18 156:5 158:6 generational 61:20 62:25 63:12 generations 43:7 44:1 45:6 Meeting [generations - government] 45:20 57:4 generic 90:10 gentleman 202:4 gentlemen 7:4 george 38:12 38:14 109:25 192:5 getter 111:3 125:17 129:6 139:7 140:10 146:17 getters 140:14 146:8 getting 52:1 60:23 103:21 131:14 144:20 177:7 ghost 117:7 gilkes 7:3 girl 43:7,12 59:2 65:9,12 65:14 67:6 91:10 girl's 46:15 51:11 66:24 67:3 girls 96:15 97:8 give 65:25 69:19 79:1 86:22,22,23 127:21 190:7 given 101:4,15 101:17 102:8 gives 42:22 57:17 78:14 139:25 giving 33:5 123:22 glad 186:12 glance 67:19 98:25 glass 149:15 glibly 144:11 gnome 117:6 go 5:21 17:18 18:5 19:5,7 20:4,5 24:8 28:9 32:16,23 37:20 53:18 55:4,16 56:21 57:1,6,8,12 63:2 64:10,16 65:16 70:10 77:1 79:16 80:6 83:4 86:16 88:12,21 89:22 98:9 101:12 108:10 108:14 109:6 110:14 113:9 113:16 116:7 116:12 128:18 131:6 138:21 139:5 141:5 142:1 143:1 146:1,9,11 152:19 154:20 156:8 157:2,7 160:7 162:8 163:17 165:20 166:6 168:12 170:20 176:1 178:14 182:13 199:6 202:21 October 16, 2024 Page 23 203:1 god 10:19 42:16 54:3 goes 78:20 141:1,2 172:22 going 16:11 17:18 18:4 19:3,12 24:1 25:21 26:2,3,4 28:11 31:16 32:11 33:16 48:16 49:8 52:13 53:7 56:2,10,18,19 56:20,22 57:3 57:13,18 63:23 63:25 65:16,25 67:20 70:15,22 76:23 78:12 80:7,12,17 81:11 84:23 88:4 89:19,20 90:15,16,20 91:14 92:5 101:12,13,21 101:22 110:3 110:11,14,23 111:4,10 112:5 112:18 113:4 114:21 115:14 116:16 117:3 118:15,21 119:23 120:4,9 121:9,12 122:16 123:9 129:22 130:4 133:9,13,17,19 136:20,24 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 139:1,1,20 141:20 143:9 143:15 147:6 147:15,16 149:25 152:18 153:16 155:22 156:5 157:25 158:20 162:24 165:19 172:23 176:2 178:11 180:6 193:25 194:25 gold 51:20,22 52:7 56:11 157:16 158:9 160:5 good 4:3 9:18 16:7 17:20 19:11 20:16 23:2 27:6 31:19,22 34:10 49:23 50:8 55:24 56:1,9 81:15,19 88:17 98:3 113:1 116:11 120:14 126:5 152:7,8 154:16 159:21 178:20 186:14 192:22 199:17 201:15 goosey 139:19 gorgeous 148:16 gotten 104:10 govern 42:20 government 2:15 8:16 44:9 Meeting [government - hand] 75:2 governors 42:21 grace 26:4 graceful 15:10 gracefully 95:22 graciously 95:22 graffiti 118:2 grandfather 65:11 grandparents 95:16 graphic 145:11 graphically 144:23 grasps 13:5 gratification 141:12 gratitude 84:8 great 18:19 23:15 25:14,15 35:12 47:20 54:18 68:12 69:9 77:15 78:6 80:11 81:16 84:13 85:10,15 123:1 143:5,6,6 147:18 149:22 153:19 160:13 174:8 greater 200:18 203:9 greg 2:14 8:12 37:2 71:7,14 71:17 72:14 October 16, 2024 Page 24 127:24 140:12 167:16 ground 31:10 44:19 grounds 64:22 64:23 group 7:3 17:10 84:2 98:14 106:19 108:7 128:12 128:13 grouping 202:15 growing 30:25 grown 24:10 guarantee 113:2 guardian 43:1 44:25 45:7 guess 27:16 61:23 62:5 85:25 guide 74:1,7 guides 43:10 guiding 43:24 guy 201:7 guys 78:22 79:1 90:18 111:7 156:15 h hair 10:1 11:9 11:14,20 12:14 122:8 hairdo 51:11 half 3:5,7 6:16 8:24 10:8 28:17 33:13,17 37:10,15,21 38:8 39:5,5,7 39:10,16 40:24 41:3,4,9,12,18 41:21,24 42:1 42:15 43:3 46:1,25 47:4 47:13,21 48:10 50:12 51:16,24 52:12 54:2,8,9 58:1,5,10,22 59:13 62:15 63:14 64:4,12 69:17 70:10,16 71:16,21 76:21 77:11 78:13 80:23 81:1 82:13,22 90:20 90:23,24 91:9 96:18 98:4 100:6 102:14 102:18 104:3 105:19 106:1,4 106:5 108:14 110:24 111:14 111:16,21 112:1 115:25 118:6 122:1 123:16 129:13 129:15 131:11 149:15,15 153:4 155:20 181:8,25 205:7 207:5 hall 41:23 47:17 112:16 134:6 139:22 140:25 141:22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 141:23 174:18 174:21 175:1 185:15,18 hallelujah 171:22 hanchock 2:10 7:21,23 9:16 40:25 hand 13:17 33:21 39:23 43:13 46:15 49:19,20 59:3 68:24 69:8 71:7 81:11 97:14 102:19 103:10 104:16 118:13 136:17 136:19 147:19 151:19 153:25 154:10 155:25 161:22,24 162:20 164:1 164:17,18 165:4 167:3,8 167:13 170:10 170:15 171:9 171:15 173:9 173:13 174:9 175:24 179:4,9 181:3 182:1,6 183:18 186:18 187:1 190:3,19 191:1,2 193:22 195:12 196:3 196:24 197:11 197:24 203:11 203:14 Meeting [handed - hoard] handed 68:23 69:7 handing 64:20 70:20 123:18 123:20 handoff 57:2 hands 12:5 44:17 45:16 49:22 50:5,16 50:21 53:1,2 59:3,7 64:15 64:17 100:13 147:3,12 148:9 158:14 159:1 164:24 165:5 168:17,19,25 169:5,8,13,15 170:11 171:10 171:16 173:10 173:14 174:5,6 176:17,18 179:5,10 181:4 182:2,7 183:19 186:19 190:20 190:22 197:12 197:16 203:12 happen 26:3 112:9 136:13 happened 91:5 185:25 happening 35:19 47:23 happiness 140:2 happy 56:5 59:8 66:21 70:8 78:21 79:22 80:18 October 16, 2024 Page 25 83:24 85:14 88:13 117:13 120:23 136:20 161:14 172:12 185:10 harcourt 4:22 hard 99:22 205:24 206:9 harken 29:4 harkening 14:18 harkens 23:13 49:13 140:25 harmoniously 133:14 harmonize 48:13 harping 198:2 hats 11:15 head 12:16 13:5 14:25 17:13 24:12 26:11 81:3,10 92:22,23 93:14 103:5,9 110:13 162:7 headache 53:18 headdress 19:16 heading 101:20 headlines 89:20 headpiece 15:12 36:21 hear 35:1 37:9 37:17,20 87:5 93:24 101:9 106:16 167:16 178:8 187:22 heard 18:3 30:23 53:21 114:20 119:15 148:22 hearing 9:7 34:12 61:10 68:13 heart 24:8 heavy 144:20 height 189:16 held 147:21 hell 26:23 109:16 help 35:10 74:7 117:6 143:13 160:14 helpful 60:23 169:23 186:5 186:11 199:10 199:17 helps 35:8,18 heraldic 137:20 heschel 202:5 hi 26:22 87:14 105:9 128:2 189:13 203:21 hidden 135:16 135:18 185:19 high 40:4,17 74:3 89:7 108:7 125:16 146:17 158:10 higher 72:25 highest 73:3 77:20 93:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 125:18 highlight 74:24 highlighting 16:14 historians 135:13 historic 14:24 historical 92:9 139:20 186:3 202:3,10 historically 91:4,20 141:24 150:16 151:12 185:2 204:19 histories 75:6 history 1:23 5:2 9:19 10:8 22:8,17 41:2 41:11 76:2,20 87:1 96:20 116:18 151:4 203:3 hit 55:1 80:12 92:11 155:23 hitting 112:20 hoard 2:5 6:1,2 14:12,14,15 57:24 88:23 102:21 103:16 121:3 130:25 131:1,6 136:19 142:8,19 154:11,21 161:25 162:16 164:2,3 167:15 167:21 172:4 176:1,10,10 178:7,8,15,20 Meeting [hoard - inconsistency] 187:3,4,24 188:1,7 190:23 191:3 194:25 197:25 198:1 hogging 166:7 hold 45:16 102:14 190:21 holding 24:13 49:17,25 65:12 65:15 97:20 114:4 147:12 holds 13:9 43:12 home 189:11 honestly 19:1 109:11 131:15 202:16 honored 84:2 hope 21:8 45:5 57:18 150:1 hopefully 80:20 hoping 58:4 90:18 111:23 horizontal 126:3 horrible 149:17 hour 160:18 hours 68:2 112:1,2,2 122:2 house 2:1 4:23 5:11 huge 138:23 human 65:5 humanity 75:19 October 16, 2024 Page 26 hundred 91:6 hundreds 67:23 hung 135:17 hunt 8:25 34:22 68:16 hyphen 198:21 198:22 i icon 32:4 115:3 iconic 44:6 62:21 67:13 115:19 idea 29:23 49:19 50:17 105:13 127:8 134:2,21 135:25 175:1 186:8 ideals 10:11 74:22 ideas 75:3 131:4 identical 94:23 identifiable 62:21 identification 6:16 identified 175:7 identify 14:10 46:6 149:11 162:12 identity 75:1 ignited 12:23 ignorance 42:20 ii 118:2 illegitimate 22:14 illusion 29:12 illusions 94:1 illustrate 58:8 76:19 image 21:15 29:12 41:16,22 46:22 47:1 67:25 115:3,10 130:21 192:2,5 204:14 imagery 42:10 121:12 images 9:25 21:9 26:5 30:15 36:3 46:13 48:13 70:9 119:7 144:23 151:17 imagine 164:6 immediately 62:20,21 immense 149:25 impact 23:9 58:23 84:14 159:17 195:4 impasse 165:17 imperative 204:9,20 implies 108:24 importance 23:8 69:2 important 16:18 21:14 22:19 25:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 61:17 63:24 70:20 88:1 204:4,8 impressed 83:11 impression 61:3 87:24 119:13,25 120:2 impressions 94:13 impressive 52:11 70:17 80:24 81:3 imprisonment 138:19 impugning 94:9 inaccurate 139:14 inadvisable 91:16 inappropriate 31:13 include 10:19 10:25 21:14 22:19 42:16 included 35:7 134:19 includes 6:14 44:10 including 75:1 76:3 inclusive 75:7 inclusivity 75:5 inconsistency 61:15 79:18 108:4 Meeting [inconsistent - iterations] inconsistent 62:16 64:5 incorporate 108:18 increase 39:8 incredible 111:7 incumbent 94:7 incuse 152:15 152:25 incused 143:22 152:19 independence 13:15 28:21 41:23 44:15 47:17 59:15 60:1 73:17 76:4,8 84:24 90:8 111:23 112:15 115:21 116:13 121:6 121:10 125:13 132:5,22 134:6 137:3,13,16 139:21 141:22 141:23,24 170:24 174:18 174:20,21,23 175:1 184:1 185:3,14,18 indicate 7:7 15:15 118:10 118:24 172:17 indicated 172:6 172:10 indifferent 64:18 individual 45:18 66:13 77:19 108:11 128:14 129:1 161:10 177:2 182:13 individualism 75:3 individually 73:8 96:23 individuals 200:17 indulgence 174:13 inflection 28:22 76:6,7 76:18 information 127:22 135:13 informed 59:24 185:18 194:17 infusion 144:16 inheritance 75:22 initially 54:21 105:20 initiatives 2:17 9:4 inner 12:22 107:3 innovative 92:8 input 74:16 inquiring 109:15 inscription 10:18 11:7 12:6 13:10,16 13:19 42:14,25 October 16, 2024 Page 27 44:11 inscriptions 10:19,25 42:16 43:2 103:5 107:22 195:23 inside 146:11 151:24 174:18 175:2 inspire 75:16 inspired 11:5 42:18 86:6 202:13,25 inspiring 58:6 instance 133:7 instances 35:15 instant 141:11 instantly 137:24 156:22 intensity 11:12 intent 107:21 intentional 81:22 82:5 interact 77:13 interest 33:3 39:8 127:13 interested 33:5 208:17 interesting 24:16 28:13 35:1 82:1 87:7 interfering 159:12 intergovernm... 2:13,16 8:9,17 interior 189:18 189:19 internal 36:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 interpret 149:16 interpretations 16:17 interview 111:11 intrigued 58:25 introduce 4:14 introduced 138:13 invalidate 94:4 94:5 invest 59:4 invite 68:10 involve 33:17 involved 70:9 83:15 iphones 124:24 ish 97:7 island 67:15 issuance 9:24 41:21 issue 24:25 39:23 123:10 128:5 145:25 148:20 issued 9:21 41:4,14 138:15 158:9 160:2 issues 9:10 154:15 it'll 71:1 108:23 item 65:9 iterations 9:23 Meeting [james - know] j james 42:18,25 45:6 jarring 145:7 jeanne 1:24 5:6 17:1,4 18:3 22:4 25:10 33:21,23 34:1 47:25 48:2,24 83:6,8 84:4 116:3,5 117:25 130:10,13 132:16,18 142:22,23 143:17 144:9 145:4 149:13 151:12 157:5,6 162:20,23 163:11 173:6 182:25 jeanne's 95:1 jefferson 31:12 86:10 jennifer 2:13 6:23 7:1 8:8 128:1,2 160:24 180:5 182:16 jfk 63:13 joan 147:4 job 29:11 54:19 84:10 111:6 joe 36:1 100:23 101:22 106:23 107:2 108:1 143:13 145:15 152:13 189:4 190:2,8 198:12 October 16, 2024 Page 28 198:24 joe's 143:18 199:16 john 2:1 5:10 26:21 38:13,15 41:6 50:24 51:1 53:9 56:14 59:18 63:9,16,22 66:19 70:7 87:13,14 97:14 106:22 114:2 119:10 126:6 140:22 148:5 148:18 154:10 159:24 171:1 177:9,10 178:9 178:17 190:3,5 193:22,24 200:24 201:5 202:2 john's 86:5 94:12 join 8:25 28:11 88:4 joined 8:20 30:21 joining 6:4 9:6 joseph 2:11 8:2 36:6 93:17 107:4 143:21 152:25 189:13 194:14 198:14 199:4 judicious 78:8 july 21:24 135:12 184:19 185:23,23 jumping 101:9 k keep 14:9 19:4 20:19 25:2 32:11 42:3 46:4 61:13 62:11 76:22 77:2 189:17 198:2 204:20 keeping 72:20 73:11 147:13 keeps 16:11 kellen 2:5 5:25 6:3 14:12,15 16:25 17:5 18:3 25:8,17 46:22 57:22 78:11 84:23 88:22 93:19,20 97:17 102:19 121:2 124:7,10 124:15 130:24 130:25 136:18 142:6,7,24 154:10 161:22 161:23 164:1,3 164:21 167:13 172:3 175:24 175:25 176:10 178:5,8 186:7 186:25 187:1,3 187:21 190:23 190:25 194:23 197:13,18,24 198:1,23 199:3 199:10,13,16 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 kellen's 56:7 57:21 140:23 142:21 kennedy 38:13 38:15 41:4,6,7 63:9,16,22,22 64:1,4,4 kerning 189:20 key 127:10 kid 158:21 killed 27:4 88:3 88:11,18 killing 98:15 kilroy 118:1 kind 14:18 15:13 18:13 27:14,21 28:7 51:10,14 52:5 52:6,14 53:24 60:22 62:19 63:21,24 64:2 82:16 88:9 90:10 95:9,10 100:12 103:4 103:17 112:24 117:11 119:14 131:8,19 134:20 135:24 139:16 140:24 144:19 149:5 150:23 157:25 159:16 175:9 186:1,6,8,10 187:19 198:10 202:18 knew 37:14 know 14:25 15:8 16:9,14 Meeting [know - liberty] 20:23 21:21 22:6,7,13,22 25:16,18,23 26:2,4,13 27:9 27:18 28:20 29:17 30:5,11 31:15 33:7 35:9,18,19 36:1 37:11 39:9,10,11,12 39:14 46:14,21 46:23 47:1,10 48:11 51:21 52:2 56:19 58:13 59:2 60:11 61:13,16 61:18,23,25 62:4,6,8,8,10 62:11,12,15,18 62:19,20,22 63:1,4,8,9,13 63:16,20 64:2 64:11,16,19 66:11 69:1,3 69:15 82:15,24 85:4 86:23 90:18 94:17 95:15 98:17 100:23 106:3 107:11 109:8 110:2 112:4,19 112:23 115:12 116:25 117:10 118:21 120:6 122:21 128:6 130:16 136:4 142:25 144:14 149:6,6 152:17 October 16, 2024 Page 29 152:18 162:1,6 165:14 167:23 172:5 175:1 186:6 188:8 189:4,7,23 191:24 192:11 198:21 201:13 201:14,14 205:23 knowing 184:12 knowledge 42:5,19,22 43:1 44:25 45:7 58:22 69:3 76:25 124:25 known 98:19 99:24,25 120:4 knows 41:20 107:7 112:21 kristie 2:8 l l 189:24 la 20:11 lack 54:1 138:8 lady 49:11 50:1 118:10,15 119:1 155:12 land 147:4 landed 55:15 language 174:22 laptop 123:3,7 large 58:10 64:7 68:6 113:17 157:21 larger 23:21 73:22 103:18 131:25 latch 110:8 130:2 late 26:23 62:1 laugh 34:17 laughter 193:21 205:14 laurel 11:9 12:3,15 17:12 18:6 19:4,17 25:12 laurels 12:1 layout 18:18 lays 14:24 lead 60:25 75:10 146:25 leader 2:1,2,3 5:12,14,17 leading 43:6,11 59:2 76:2 leaf 52:21 leaning 11:12 67:11 68:8 learn 110:4 learning 2:17 9:4 leave 65:18 78:22,25 102:17 108:3 135:22 175:16 176:23 192:6 leaves 11:16 led 28:20 lee 2:17 9:3 34:7 35:23 68:10 175:19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 left 93:4,15 96:2 99:4 105:15,21,23 106:13 123:25 130:15 143:24 163:2,5 198:15 legal 14:3 45:24 legible 47:8 123:8 legislation 39:17 legislative 2:13 2:15 8:9,17 9:1 lends 122:13 lens 175:14 lesser 158:3 lesson 18:9 69:20 letter 184:14 184:15,22 lettering 130:1 152:14 159:13 letters 144:1 172:5,16 206:25 letting 35:21 level 47:13 liaison 2:13 6:22 8:10 liberties 21:6 21:17,20 92:25 93:9 96:10 97:6 99:8,11 99:13,14 150:21 liberty 9:25,25 10:3,5,13,15 Meeting [liberty - look] 10:18,25 11:4 11:6,9,11,16 11:19,22 12:2 12:4,7,14,17 12:24 13:16,18 15:9 16:14 17:7,21 20:10 21:8,13,15 22:5,15 25:2 26:5 29:1,4,6 32:3,5 35:6 41:10,12,14,17 41:18 42:13,24 43:2,5,9,18,20 43:23 44:1,3 44:23 45:1,8 45:10,17,19 46:24 47:8 48:9 49:12 50:2,19 51:19 51:24 54:2 55:24 56:5,12 56:23,24 60:11 60:12,25 62:22 62:23 67:14,15 67:22 75:2 80:16 81:3 82:16,23 83:2 83:3 87:8 89:12,13,15 91:2,4,15 93:8 95:3 96:1,8,18 97:19,20 98:1 98:5,6 99:3 102:14 106:6 108:17 109:4 110:22 114:16 114:25 115:2,4 October 16, 2024 Page 30 115:8,19 116:15,23 118:10,14,15 118:19 119:1,2 120:21 121:15 121:16,22 123:20,21 124:17,18 129:22 132:20 133:4 134:3,11 135:4,5 137:22 139:15 140:1,1 140:25 143:1 143:10 150:18 150:23 151:2,5 151:9 153:19 153:21 154:6 155:8,13,19,24 156:2,14,19,20 157:8,23 158:4 158:13,18,19 158:25 159:25 160:9 171:3 184:16,24 185:14 189:15 189:19 190:6 190:12,12 195:14,19,22 195:25 liberty's 12:9 12:20 24:12 43:15 45:4,14 92:21,22,23,24 library 2:17 9:5 69:1 life 53:14 203:1 lifetime 112:3 lifetimes 98:19 lift 65:9 light 43:18 45:5 67:21 lighting 12:21 43:24 likable 15:6 liked 19:20 66:4,4 88:5 98:24 likely 115:9 likes 27:23 85:15 154:4 limited 75:1 line 54:4 68:15 68:21 106:25 121:12 lines 59:6 165:21 177:11 linked 138:2,17 listen 60:19 149:17 listened 70:4 78:9 86:12 listening 4:13 97:16 literally 127:19 literalness 186:10 little 9:19 18:22 21:3 23:24 24:24 26:16 28:3 29:25 30:6,13 33:3 35:17 41:2 46:15 50:6 51:11,17 65:12,14 70:20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 71:18 73:21 80:3,21 85:6 85:11 86:7 87:7 88:7 90:17 92:10 93:13 97:1,10 100:20 101:6,7 111:24 113:24 117:6,9 118:1 119:19 122:20 125:9 126:16 131:14 139:19 141:5 143:14 147:19 148:25 161:6 187:7 201:16 live 4:10 79:19 81:2 109:10 110:18 130:8 lived 83:13 lives 67:14 lobby 95:23 137:20 lock 147:9 london 60:2 long 23:11 38:12 127:4 135:11 205:24 longer 175:19 175:20 look 9:7 16:11 19:15,24 20:9 21:12 24:16 32:6 36:10 52:20 54:1,19 59:10 70:8 72:20 73:2,9 77:4,19 79:17 Meeting [look - makes] 81:10,18 82:20 87:21,25 88:15 88:17 92:8 95:14 98:21,22 98:25 101:1 103:9,11,19 104:24 108:6 108:16 109:16 113:22 118:1 128:11,11,14 133:16 141:14 143:8 144:25 145:2 175:13 183:25 189:12 206:22 looked 20:8 27:2 37:15 49:4 52:23 73:7 111:25 112:14 119:18 119:19 202:2 looking 16:9 23:6 28:15,19 29:6 30:5 31:22 32:7 35:25 42:8 44:3 48:6 50:4 55:23 56:13,23 57:3 66:10,14 69:17 72:24 77:17 80:21 86:25 87:20 90:24 92:14 93:7 94:15 95:20 101:22 102:4 103:7,25 104:1,2,19 112:15 117:7 October 16, 2024 Page 31 123:2 131:14 131:23 133:6 133:11,15 142:11,25 144:12 149:14 188:17 looks 15:2 20:1 29:24 43:13 51:19 53:17 76:21 88:7 95:9 105:6 114:3 116:22 126:4 147:11 149:20 169:17 loosey 139:19 lore 134:14 135:15 136:8 137:7 186:1 lost 32:8 78:15 100:8 177:5 lot 16:22 27:2 27:12,25 28:3 36:2,7,17 52:8 52:16 53:4,21 80:13,23 95:6 106:9 110:7 111:19 124:14 138:22 141:4 144:12 145:1 loudly 115:2 love 30:15 47:19 50:16 54:3 68:5 88:25,25 89:1 109:23 116:2 139:2 155:8 160:11 loved 23:17 54:21 80:23 106:3 lovely 17:16 48:21 low 145:12 lower 20:1 lukewarm 84:25 85:11 90:6 92:10 lumberjacks 201:11 lunch 128:1,10 128:20 145:25 160:17,18,25 m made 6:19 15:21 16:22 22:4 24:8 29:8 30:7 34:16 35:11 36:9 56:14 63:11 65:10 93:18 94:2 200:4 madison 42:25 68:25 madison's 42:19 45:7 magic 85:25,25 main 33:18 98:2 102:24 107:14 121:7 136:24 maintain 44:21 45:19 maintains 38:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 majestic 26:18 26:18 30:13 majority 2:2 5:14 56:15 make 23:9 30:18 31:2,6 37:13,25 47:2 49:8 57:2 59:23 70:17 77:13 80:17 100:23 102:16 105:10 107:5 108:15 111:12 113:20 121:13 129:3 131:12 131:21 136:1,5 137:8 139:4 146:1,7 156:2 160:19 162:9 165:15,23 166:1 167:23 168:2 176:2,5 177:3 178:21 183:6 186:2 189:15 190:1,4 190:5 191:19 191:20 193:19 194:3 196:21 198:10 199:21 200:10,15 201:6 202:22 202:23 203:1 205:11,16 makes 47:8 57:15 64:21 107:1 145:14 148:25 153:19 Meeting [making - member] making 10:10 21:19 40:3,16 57:20 72:2,11 85:5 128:21 142:11 156:13 185:13 188:5 196:11 199:15 management 2:8 7:10 205:22 manager 2:10 2:10,11,12 7:19,22,25 8:6 marchers 202:6 marches 200:5 marching 150:22 151:5,6 margarine 27:18 34:15 mark 11:7 18:14 155:24 156:21 marketing 113:3,4 markup 160:3 marry 145:13 marshal 83:15 mass 94:17 massive 65:15 match 68:21 121:24 122:4 122:11,17 133:9 141:20 143:9,12 matching 142:10 October 16, 2024 Page 32 math 18:9 31:8 69:20 127:7 matter 8:21 34:7 37:5 71:10 74:17 103:19 126:19 133:25 134:1,7 135:9 137:1,21 139:13 146:20 150:17 160:20 184:10 185:24 192:1 195:17 196:19 197:7 202:15 207:16 208:3 mcnally 2:8 mean 27:12 28:3 32:12 42:20 51:24 52:13 57:10,14 83:23 88:20 96:22 100:8,9 103:10,21 107:11 112:6 113:7 117:7,8 117:12 120:5 141:21 144:11 148:9,15,16,21 149:9 154:3 172:7 189:3 meaning 137:12 means 75:22 92:16 127:13 meant 19:23 35:11 127:11 202:4 measure 127:12 medal 51:18 113:2,4 148:15 148:16,17 medallic 1:25 5:7 medals 148:17 media 7:2 meet 34:23 36:20 meeting 1:5 4:7 6:14,25 8:21 43:21 60:9 70:14 135:9 meets 14:21 156:21 megan 2:9 7:12 melt 160:1,1 member 1:17 1:22,24 2:4 4:18,21 5:1,3,6 5:9,18,22,24 6:2,7,9 14:14 17:3 18:1 19:11 20:16 23:1 25:7 26:22 30:23 31:3 32:11 33:1,10,22 37:13 39:4,18 39:21 46:10 48:1 49:2 51:1 51:9 53:12 55:20 57:24 61:13 65:1 69:14,22 70:2 70:4,25 78:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 79:5 81:6,14 82:6,9 83:7 84:6 85:20,23 86:3,4,21,23 87:14 88:23 97:16 98:17 99:20 100:2,4 102:11,13,21 103:16 104:18 104:22 105:9 105:24 106:23 107:19 108:12 109:20 111:13 113:10,12 114:11 116:4 117:21 119:11 121:3 123:19 129:4 130:12 130:25 131:6 132:17 135:3 136:7,11,19 137:18 139:10 140:9,22 141:7 142:8,19,23 146:6,14 148:6 148:15 149:13 150:4 151:1,11 151:21 152:7 152:10,23 153:16 154:8 154:11,21 155:2 156:12 157:6,15 159:3 159:6,7,9,11 159:14,20,23 161:17,25 162:16,21 163:3,8,21 Meeting [member - modern] 164:2 166:1,4 166:7,10,14,16 167:15,21 168:10,16,21 169:3,22 171:2 171:5 172:4,21 173:19 176:1,6 176:10 177:10 177:22,25 178:7,13,15,20 179:6,11,18,25 181:10,12,17 182:25 183:8 183:16 184:8 185:4,7,10 186:12 187:3 187:24 188:1,7 188:24 189:2 190:4,15,23 191:3,20,23 192:9,15,18 193:12,20,24 194:3,9,25 195:13 196:4 197:1,13,25 198:23 199:3 199:10,16 200:3,21,25 201:5,18,22 202:1 203:5,21 205:1 207:9,11 members 1:16 4:11,15 6:23 14:9 46:4 67:12 74:15 77:22 83:10 85:2 92:1 145:1 October 16, 2024 Page 33 memory 63:21 menna 2:11 8:2 8:4 36:6,6 93:16,17 96:3 107:4,4 143:21 143:21 145:9 152:22,24,25 189:13,13 194:13,14 198:14,14 199:1,4,4 mention 133:21 134:4 mentioned 18:8 33:13 37:25 59:18 136:25 146:10 159:11 mercury 23:14 86:17,17 100:3 merit 54:17 109:13 message 50:14 100:8 147:20 153:20 155:11 messaging 123:22 met 27:13 metal 80:6 107:7 metaphorical 137:12 methods 86:18 mic 109:9 133:6 180:23 michael 2:2,12 5:13 8:5 145:4 microphone 131:2 139:11 mid 138:6 middle 146:19 155:6 187:10 187:11 mike 7:2 30:21 55:19,21 67:7 70:3 78:1,3 79:5,24 80:7 81:17 100:1 107:6 108:11 108:13 109:21 181:17,21 183:16 186:17 191:23 192:8 192:13 195:7 204:25 mike's 110:25 202:21 military 55:12 millimeter 15:18 mind 60:17 61:24 72:20 73:11 75:23 77:3,18,23 78:10 87:24 103:19 137:4,8 minds 70:5 121:19 minimum 78:7 minor 104:11 minority 2:1,3 5:11,17 mint 1:1 2:7 6:22 7:6 9:9 81:8 84:8 94:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 94:5 111:7 144:10 165:20 196:19 197:2,3 197:6 198:10 200:10 205:21 206:15 207:5 208:5 mint's 113:3 mintage 158:10 minted 41:9 147:17 157:20 minute 37:3 71:9 126:17 minutes 14:10 26:24 46:5 128:1,10 mirror 105:15 mischievous 27:9 missed 18:14 109:2 missing 20:2 33:6 78:17 90:21 misspoke 19:23 mistaken 129:17 misunderstood 145:10 mitch 127:7 modern 14:23 15:4 16:12 29:5 42:7 49:13 54:1,19 56:5 59:19 65:21,22 86:1 110:3 115:9 119:15 Meeting [modernistic - name] modernistic 102:2 modification 193:9 modifications 162:14 182:14 182:22 184:4 186:23 188:21 191:10,18 197:22 199:21 199:24 203:19 205:4,10 modified 183:7 200:6 modify 183:6,9 183:12 193:4 203:8 moment 8:18 22:20 73:13 77:24 92:20,22 93:3 96:21 141:15 163:13 164:10,11 166:22 168:6 170:2 206:3,22 momentarily 111:11 161:20 momentous 12:11 73:12 moments 76:19 momentum 45:12 monarch 10:15 monarchy 11:21 12:11 22:13 monetary 129:18 October 16, 2024 Page 34 money 80:16 80:21 115:16 months 41:5 198:7 moran 2:2 5:13 30:21,23 31:3 32:11 55:19,20 55:21 69:22 70:2,4 78:1,2,3 86:21 100:2 102:11,13 107:19 108:12 108:13 166:1,4 166:7,10,14,16 168:10,16,21 181:17,17,21 183:16,16 191:20,23,23 192:15 195:7 200:3,21 205:1 morning 4:3 9:19 19:11 20:17 23:2 34:10 mother 27:15 27:19,21 34:14 motifs 119:6 motion 73:19 162:11 163:11 163:14,18,20 163:22,24 164:7,14 166:2 166:19,22,24 167:3,11 168:9 168:13,15,19 168:24 169:2 169:21 170:1,4 170:5,16 171:9 171:18 172:24 172:24 173:2 173:16,18,23 174:12 176:2,5 176:21 177:16 177:24 178:24 179:13,18,21 181:14 182:10 183:6,11,18,24 184:22 185:6 185:11 186:13 186:16,18,21 188:5,17,18 190:5,6,10,17 190:19 191:8 192:10,13,17 193:19 194:2,4 194:5,21 196:11,22 197:1,5,11,20 198:10 199:14 200:15,23 201:21 203:7 203:10,18 205:2 207:8 motions 128:21 146:1 161:4,9 161:14 162:10 162:15,19 171:1 172:19 175:23 177:9 179:17 181:9 motto 54:3 move 37:11 38:8 40:21 97:18 98:8 121:6 132:5 140:6 145:16 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 146:4 161:7,10 162:24 166:4 166:10 170:23 171:2 173:20 175:22 176:7 177:11 179:15 183:9 184:14 188:12 192:24 196:7 197:3 199:20 200:10 202:18 207:9 movement 76:10 84:17,20 204:1,5 moving 12:19 40:10 53:25 68:3 85:10 92:21 94:18 115:22 121:8 155:11,18 161:2 171:20 171:23 172:18 177:4 191:12 muddling 153:25 multi 200:5 multiple 165:15 167:18 167:24 168:3 mushroom 117:10 n n 3:1,1 4:1 n.w. 1:13 nailed 104:14 name 4:12,16 7:8 120:12 Meeting [name - nurturing] 128:4 names 191:24 narratively 106:8 nation 10:16 11:24 12:18 13:20 26:5 45:15 69:5 77:15 86:1 186:8 nation's 11:8 43:19 national 9:2 34:24 59:5 185:17 naturally 122:13 nature 27:15 27:19,21 34:15 44:20 145:11 near 92:24 neat 103:23 neatly 103:4 necessarily 16:2 38:23 74:2,8 104:8 112:5 114:23 131:12 134:13 138:17 144:11 150:24 180:9 196:17 necessary 43:25 105:15 195:14 203:9 necessity 203:24 neck 52:8 October 16, 2024 Page 35 need 9:10 18:9 25:11,23 28:18 31:9 33:24 78:22,25 89:3 98:6 102:13,17 107:20 108:3 108:15 118:9 120:13 121:13 121:13 124:11 133:16 141:11 149:4 150:8,16 151:3 153:17 154:2 157:2 165:22 180:17 183:1 194:20 196:17 202:21 needed 45:18 59:21 needs 26:11,12 100:20 112:9 189:16 negative 18:20 32:18 neither 208:11 neocolonial 120:19 nerdy 112:12 112:24 network 32:9 never 56:16 64:6 98:19 127:11 nevertheless 29:15 30:14 96:4 new 10:16 12:18 13:20 38:13,14 42:12 44:24 45:12 63:10,17 64:3 95:5 101:3,12 136:8 news 89:19 nice 18:10 27:19,24 28:8 48:18 51:15 52:14,18 53:5 53:5 82:25 89:12 100:9 117:3,4 121:22 131:19 143:3,4 175:3 192:22 nicely 110:12 144:7 192:1 nickel 198:6,25 night 59:22 nine 174:7,8 183:20,21,23 188:19 203:13 203:15,16,17 nineteen 72:10 nineteenth 76:11,16 nitpicking 88:20 nobody's 116:16 nod 11:14 12:9 non 39:6 52:7 60:3 65:24 norman 95:13 note 8:19 noted 174:17 notes 135:8 notice 81:21 82:7 104:24 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 121:10 noticed 81:22 98:18 number 21:2 29:10,21 33:24 48:15 49:9 50:10 54:7 55:2,16 56:8 57:1,8,9 60:3 63:2,3,4 66:17 68:4 70:10,16 74:21 79:1 83:22 86:22 88:5 93:6,12 93:13 94:7,19 94:21 96:1,6,7 99:7,12,17,23 102:25 104:14 108:16,19,20 123:10,13 142:14,17 158:22 166:11 166:11,12 168:11 170:25 numbers 19:21 173:1 numismatic 1:18 6:10 80:9 96:20 numismatics 2:4 5:23 numismatists 80:14 nurture 50:18 nurturing 43:10 Meeting [o - oh] o o 3:1 4:1 o4a 40:7 o6 40:8 oak 44:18 52:21 141:2,21 142:19,20,25 object 26:13 objection 135:7 objections 56:18 objectives 74:20 obligated 165:22 obscure 15:25 observation 42:19 105:7 191:21 observations 68:14 102:16 observe 82:14 obverse 9:14 10:4,13,19 11:2,22 14:15 18:4 19:3,5,14 20:24,24,25 21:11 23:23 24:13 27:1,6 29:3 30:19 31:1,3,15 38:11,12 40:1 40:2,3,5,5,23 41:7,10,17 42:12 43:5,17 43:20,23 44:2 46:12,21 47:4 October 16, 2024 Page 36 48:3,5,22 49:9 49:22,25 50:20 50:21 51:2 53:15,19 54:6 54:12 55:15 56:8,24 57:13 57:19 58:2,12 59:1,3,11,14 60:5 62:20 64:11 65:2,20 65:22 66:17,20 66:23 68:20 70:16 71:5,21 71:22,23,24,24 72:1,1,2,25 73:5,20 74:4 81:1 83:2,3,16 83:19 84:24 87:11 88:3 98:11 99:17 100:15 102:17 103:4,6 106:5 107:9,10,14,21 108:2 111:15 114:18,25 115:8 118:6,25 121:8,22 122:4 122:9 123:11 123:17 124:2 124:17 128:12 128:15,25 130:14 133:8 137:8 139:6 140:24 141:9 141:18,20 142:2 144:24 145:13 147:24 151:25 153:17 154:14,18 156:16,17,20 157:2,23 158:4 158:13,21,25 162:2,12,24 163:11,19 164:10,14 166:5,11,17,20 166:23 168:11 168:20,22,25 169:1,6,6,7,11 169:13,17,23 170:2,8,19 171:3 172:25 173:4,8,20,23 174:4 176:7,15 177:17 179:1,1 179:22 181:2 181:12,13,13 181:15,24 182:11,20,23 184:2,5 188:14 188:18,22 191:14 193:1 197:23 199:25 203:20 205:5,7 205:11 obverse's 12:13 12:17 obverses 11:4 11:11,18 12:4 15:23 18:13 21:7 23:12 49:7,21,24 53:13,14 54:16 55:14,23 68:1 71:20 77:17,18 80:3 81:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 88:12,18 92:3 96:14 97:12 99:19 105:21 124:13 125:15 133:14 150:5 150:10,12 154:19 175:10 187:9 obvious 47:11 56:7 57:21,23 165:24 198:20 obviously 29:14 36:8 96:17 124:10 occasion 73:13 occupied 190:12 occurred 125:2 occurs 97:18 october 1:8 4:5 odd 188:3 oddly 106:19 offer 77:22 108:10 164:5 167:24 168:3 offers 23:18 office 2:8,15 7:9 8:16 205:22 officials 44:8 oh 32:23 132:18 136:19 137:16 142:7 142:20 146:5 148:5 154:9,10 159:14 163:16 166:6,21 172:2 177:5 178:4 Meeting [oh - own] 183:8 184:7 185:22 187:1 188:10,16 190:21 191:4 194:11 197:24 199:3 200:2 okay 19:1 24:23 27:22 31:4 37:19 39:22,24 51:6 53:3,3,3,21 79:14,25 89:10 96:4 102:12 105:24,24 111:5 113:14 116:19 122:24 122:25 132:10 133:20 137:22 141:2 154:22 159:11 163:10 163:17 167:7 167:13 168:4 168:18,23 169:25 170:22 170:22 171:7 177:15 178:15 180:21,24 181:14 182:18 183:14,21 184:21 185:9 186:17,20 187:25 188:4 188:10 190:2 190:16 191:4 191:12 192:15 194:5,17 199:18 201:22 203:15 October 16, 2024 Page 37 old 27:20 29:7 89:21 93:20,23 older 85:9 100:15 106:13 oldest 100:2 olympics 20:8 20:11 35:16 once 11:23 15:9 40:1 73:4 119:22 147:17 150:9 177:1 196:15,16 one's 121:9 123:1 159:15 ones 31:14 34:25 35:13 57:25 89:18 ongoing 137:12 137:13 open 65:12 128:17 168:8 operate 115:19 127:1 opinions 77:22 172:11 opportunities 21:8 opportunity 34:23 39:6,7 49:23 68:13 128:11 148:1 149:23 oppose 182:8 opposed 17:13 29:23 51:18 52:3 97:24 112:20 116:21 122:7 125:23 134:14 135:15 148:19 152:16 158:15 165:3,7 167:8 169:12 170:14 171:15 173:13 174:9 179:8 182:5,9 182:21 183:22 184:3 186:9 188:19 190:24 191:7,8 193:2 197:15,19 203:17 205:9 oppressive 120:9 149:19 optimism 95:10 optimistically 95:20 option 38:10 165:15 167:18 168:6 174:21 175:14 196:11 196:13,18,22 options 122:17 order 3:2 81:12 104:25 164:9 ordinary 143:16 orientation 53:24 original 13:1 13:24 originally 56:9 88:13 182:17 ought 168:12 outcome 208:17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 outdated 89:16 outfit 147:25 outreach 2:17 9:4 outs 120:17 outside 59:23 outstanding 96:20 outvoted 115:11 outward 44:4 overall 18:18 19:2 24:3,15 28:16 30:16 50:14,20,22 78:5 79:17 84:15,22 85:16 111:6 118:4,14 119:8 129:24 146:23 147:14 overarching 84:16 overcome 152:18 overkill 21:4 overnight 60:14 overthink 89:4 overthrowing 22:12,13 overview 72:19 74:11 own 16:16 28:10 42:21 59:19,23 60:21 66:9 90:14 168:2 Meeting [p - period] Page 38 participant 32:8 132:14 p 4:1 168:13 p.m. 4:8 160:21 160:22 207:15 participatory 42:5 44:19 207:17 76:24 packaged particular 17:9 162:11 23:5 38:2 paid 116:17 126:6 130:17 painful 95:13 134:15,24 pains 120:22 135:9 139:2 painting 95:13 141:18 142:2 95:15 147:24 165:18 pair 178:19 175:9 204:3,5 paired 46:23 particularly 64:17 142:1 27:11 30:16 pairing 30:19 31:10 55:25 108:2 128:15 59:1 70:18 158:25 159:22 87:16 101:19 pairings 124:22 126:3 205:18 153:23 pairs 106:4 parties 208:12 paper 138:14 208:15,16 par 61:2 parts 28:12 parchment 93:10 143:23,23,25 pardon 137:25 pass 43:21 62:7 109:4,8 119:25 park 92:12 passed 31:8 parks 185:17 62:1,2 63:10 part 14:19 63:18,19 67:15 19:25 20:1 108:18 111:5 29:11 62:6 passes 106:13 74:21 93:8 passing 44:24 99:16 108:22 45:11 50:2 125:4 157:21 63:5,8,17 64:3 180:13 191:15 100:13 106:11 193:3 108:24 111:1 111:17,21 p October 16, 2024 118:7,11 119:2 120:23 154:13 155:12,25 156:4,24 157:9 158:6,14 past 48:9 53:15 57:10 58:8,9 75:15 155:7 path 16:15 patience 113:13 patient 110:3 patiently 43:23 patter 24:8 pattern 129:13 paul 7:3 pause 32:10 161:21 pay 33:24 183:1 peace 29:13,13 94:23 peaceful 95:10 pegged 202:20 pencil 133:18 people 15:2 22:9 23:10,15 35:10 42:20 47:9,11,15 52:1 53:21 54:9,13 60:2 60:18 80:13,22 85:7,24 90:13 94:13 100:13 103:21 106:9 110:6,8 112:9 112:19,21 114:4 115:9,15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 115:22 116:21 117:14 118:12 119:16,24 121:23 122:8 122:12,16 123:10 124:19 128:5 130:16 131:23 133:8 137:4,8 138:11 138:16 140:3 140:23 141:4 141:13,18 142:18,24 143:9,19 144:25 145:2 149:11 156:21 158:22 173:1 174:25 179:12 189:3 201:9,10 203:25 204:7 204:13 people's 106:16 121:18 142:15 percent 120:8 percentage 120:6 perfect 44:11 47:20 48:17 59:14 61:1 91:11 108:21 108:23 perfectly 27:24 79:6 85:14 89:3 120:23 period 38:25 76:2 87:4 134:8 137:4 144:14 Meeting [periphery - point] periphery 152:14 permission 94:2 perpetuate 69:5 person 87:21 117:7,9 personality 95:21 personally 136:15 158:24 168:4 personification 118:14 personified 10:14 41:10 42:13 perspective 28:18 60:24 93:24 94:6 95:5,11 peter 1:14,17 5:19 6:9 18:1 32:22 33:10 53:12 55:20 78:2 104:22 105:12 108:12 128:9 160:24 196:4 peter's 32:1 pharaohs 147:4 phase 105:14 phenomenal 111:6 philadelphia 41:19 October 16, 2024 Page 39 phones 141:13 photo 67:22 phrase 47:20 phrases 146:10 152:1 193:15 193:17 phrygian 31:12 86:9,14,15,19 86:21 87:3 physical 125:6 pick 38:11 55:8 79:25 87:21 109:4 picked 25:17 88:13 pictures 87:20 144:25 145:2 202:3 piece 16:23 51:20,22 56:11 64:9 71:1 116:1 141:1 146:25 160:14 piggyback 109:21 pin 122:25 pitch 113:20 146:7 pitches 31:6 pitter 24:8 pivot 92:18 93:10 96:11 97:6 pivots 96:12 place 101:11 105:6 106:1,19 114:6 129:21 134:24 135:17 147:8 208:7 planchet 36:1 62:14,17 64:7 64:12 68:6 148:19,19 planned 100:10 plant 44:18 planting 50:18 platinum 3:9 3:11 6:18 play 24:9 32:3 66:14 102:8,8 playing 39:10 101:6 pleasant 142:11 please 4:15 7:7 14:9,13 17:2 19:10 20:15 22:25 34:9 37:1 46:4,9 47:25 48:21 49:1 50:25 53:11 55:19 61:12 64:25 70:3 71:6 77:2 104:17 113:17 138:5 142:5 165:3 167:3,8 170:9,14 171:9 171:15 173:9 173:13 174:5,9 176:16 179:3,8 181:3,25 182:5 183:18 186:18 190:19 197:11 203:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 pleasure 15:20 pluribus 11:1 13:19 25:21 43:3 79:12 106:18 150:11 153:24 159:12 159:16 pocket 54:14 103:22 pods 11:16 poetry 63:15 point 19:22 31:2 32:25 33:2 36:19 37:23 49:18 63:23 66:22 67:23 68:8,11 69:20 73:7,19 74:1 76:7 80:10 87:1 91:6 92:7 94:12 95:1 97:12 100:22 102:22 105:25 106:15 112:6 113:20 125:18 126:10,14 128:23 129:2,5 130:5 138:2 139:12 140:23 142:14 145:18 159:24 161:13 165:13 169:20 175:5,11 180:6 184:9 185:12 195:7,13 201:1 201:6 202:21 205:25 Meeting [pointed - presenting] pointed 66:19 67:7 69:16 114:2 132:19 203:4 pointing 174:19,24 196:6,10 points 28:22 33:5,7 40:2,3,3 40:12,12,13,14 40:15,16,18,18 47:23 66:1 70:22 71:21,23 71:23,24,25 72:2,5,8,9,10 72:11,13 76:7 76:18 85:7 89:7 104:10 106:10 109:24 150:5 polished 143:25 polling 114:6 pop 58:24 144:6 151:16 151:16 populace 69:4 popular 14:25 157:21 158:10 158:13 162:3 popularized 138:6 population 120:6 portfolio 9:13 21:19 22:21 23:5 26:7 28:16 40:21 October 16, 2024 Page 40 47:2 55:3 60:1 61:9 64:22 66:10 81:10 84:13,23 85:17 89:18 90:1 91:17,19 100:24 101:2,7 101:16,19 104:6,7 114:19 125:7 135:22 154:4 155:6 199:6 202:18 portfolios 9:8 36:8 49:4 66:11 69:16 72:21 73:8,10 77:20 82:4 84:17 90:9 92:14 96:13 125:5 161:11 206:4,5,10 portion 20:6 portrait 17:11 38:14,14 41:7 94:23 130:17 130:18 portraits 94:25 portray 12:4 13:12 portrayal 67:6 portrayed 96:14 position 190:11 190:13 196:21 197:4 positive 48:8 116:8,11 130:21 positively 172:10 possibilities 168:7 possibility 96:13 150:25 195:6 possible 40:2 71:22 72:11 93:14 96:1 97:18 98:10,11 98:18,23 150:14 169:18 195:3,22 205:17 possibly 94:19 97:5 143:24 post 95:17 potential 146:25 potentially 42:9 95:25 96:17 97:9 potter 2:17 9:3 34:8,10 68:11 68:12 power 42:22 44:7 58:17 68:25 101:5 powerful 64:8 83:12 117:15 158:8 powerfully 13:4 praise 91:25 precursor 69:22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 preeminent 96:19 prefer 18:17 19:2 25:10,20 27:23 37:17 48:5 53:19 60:20 124:1 162:8 preference 19:13,18 29:20 34:25 67:10 81:17 93:5 98:13 99:16 118:6 159:19 preferences 9:8 preferred 60:9 102:25 118:25 prejudice 112:7 prescriptions 144:13 present 1:16 2:7,16,19 4:16 4:18 5:3,9,20 5:24 6:2,7 7:7 7:11,14,17,20 7:23 8:1,4,7,11 8:14 9:16 40:25 71:15 75:15 presentation 190:8 presented 95:19,21 187:18 presenting 96:16 Meeting [presents - putting] presents 94:21 preserve 16:15 45:18 president 9:22 41:6 presidential 41:8,22 presidents 26:6 26:6 87:5,6 presiding 1:15 press 6:24 pressing 147:11 pretty 52:11,12 67:19 80:18 84:13 113:7 121:4 123:4 142:10 previous 9:23 46:16 89:25 142:10 primarily 109:23 primary 131:10 principles 75:18 prior 14:11 37:17 46:6 private 136:15 privilege 78:3 151:6 probably 19:1 25:19 26:9 27:12 32:1 39:2 51:15 52:9 53:7 94:13 111:23 October 16, 2024 Page 41 111:25 134:18 146:3 184:19 problem 78:14 proceedings 6:21 208:10 process 75:18 81:8,15 127:6 producing 30:4 production 29:14,15 professional 2:17 9:4 professor 127:7 professors 201:12 profile 12:13 41:7 program 14:4 38:3,9,10 40:22 61:3 74:12 75:24 144:17 162:18 programs 8:22 progression 28:19,25 29:19 30:2,2 92:20 project 205:23 projecting 122:3 133:12 prolong 103:25 prominently 10:18 42:13 promise 45:6 107:19 promote 75:9 promoting 74:21 prompting 60:5 proof 3:9,11 proportion 65:8 propose 87:9 87:10 169:23 proposed 170:1 protect 45:17 59:4 135:19 protective 45:9 proud 48:7 78:5 proudly 43:5 43:14 public 1:21 2:5 2:5 4:7,9,13,20 6:1,6,13,25 14:24 15:6 16:1,16 51:22 56:16 59:25 61:5,6 84:14 85:1,2 89:18 92:4 109:15 110:3 113:13 113:14 114:22 117:2 123:19 124:23 125:10 126:25 130:3 134:10 137:24 138:1 142:12 pull 114:14 140:14 pulling 114:12 pun 137:25 purdie 2:5 6:5 6:7 22:25 23:1 23:3 48:25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 49:2,3 84:6 117:21 146:14 146:15 155:2,3 192:9,18 203:5 203:21,22 purdy 192:9 purpose 11:12 17:17 18:12 45:12 131:25 156:3 purposeful 36:13 pursuing 16:19 82:12 pursuit 140:2 push 139:5 pushing 147:22 put 24:9 31:24 33:7 50:9 51:3 51:20 52:6,12 52:18 70:22 78:11 87:15 88:19 91:15,16 98:3 107:21 136:19 148:7 149:4 153:6 187:14 190:12 190:21 192:1,4 193:25 203:14 204:9 205:17 putting 21:1,2 26:16 27:11 28:6 29:23 51:23 120:12 148:2,2 150:25 156:7 158:17 191:24 205:20 206:4 Meeting [qualified - read] q qualified 1:17 1:23,25 2:4 5:1 5:7,23 6:9 quality 94:9 quarter 10:10 38:8,9,10 51:3 51:5 59:15 66:20 79:13,15 80:5 89:13,24 91:15 97:19 98:1,8 99:19 109:19,22,25 110:11,18 113:25 115:1 120:5,10 121:1 121:6,21 122:12 125:13 126:7 132:6 137:16 138:25 139:3 140:7 142:4 145:11 145:17 147:16 147:24 148:19 150:12,20 152:5 156:25 170:24 172:19 173:4 174:5,20 175:22 176:15 177:5,8 179:16 181:3 184:1 188:11,13 191:13 192:25 195:23 196:9 196:13 198:5 199:22,23 204:3 October 16, 2024 Page 42 quarters 21:14 21:18 28:17 42:1 77:10 79:10 93:1 99:8,13 124:17 145:19 150:22 170:23 quest 10:24 12:23 137:12 question 33:1 63:25 80:6 86:10 93:11 126:25 135:4 142:8,21 145:5 152:12 162:1 172:1,3,5 178:18 187:4 188:24 189:2 195:1 198:23 questions 14:4 32:24 33:9 34:6 35:23 36:24 45:24 69:12 70:1 146:2 quick 69:14 87:22 102:22 110:7 136:22 159:3 161:25 187:4 198:23 quickly 88:16 quill 141:19 quincentennial 71:16 quite 15:5,13 27:3 58:19 68:6 82:20 88:24 89:9 96:25 103:8,11 103:12,17 104:10 109:11 135:16 155:23 185:19 quorum 6:12 quote 68:25 69:6 quoting 42:25 r r 4:1 208:1 rabbi 202:5,8 race 130:19 races 60:4 radical 104:9 radio 5:19 rail 113:16 railing 116:23 raise 56:19 61:9 164:18 165:3 167:3,8 167:10 169:5 169:13 170:9 170:14 171:9 171:15 173:9 173:13 174:5,9 176:17 179:4,8 181:3,25 182:5 183:18 186:18 188:2 190:19 195:1 197:11 197:16 203:11 raised 30:12 33:21 89:23 97:15 102:20 104:17 107:8,9 124:11 126:6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 136:17 144:1 151:20 152:16 153:2 154:10 161:24 162:20 164:1 165:5 167:14 169:8 169:15 170:11 171:10,16 173:10,14 174:6 175:25 176:18 179:5 179:10 181:4 182:2,7 183:19 186:19 187:2 190:3,20 193:23 195:12 196:3,25 197:12,24 203:12 raising 13:18 rang 135:12 136:8,8,9 185:22 range 10:20 21:20 42:17 ranges 50:17 rather 29:21 90:22 96:6 103:2 113:21 115:13 119:6 147:12 164:17 rays 45:5 reach 165:17 reached 81:16 reaching 147:19 read 21:15 37:22 103:12 Meeting [read - reconsideration] 117:1 129:11 133:13,13 137:13 172:25 180:10 readable 131:13,21 readily 141:13 reads 13:11 19:25 21:16 190:13 ready 39:25 41:1 71:17 85:20,21 160:17 readying 43:21 real 58:23 72:15 97:7,24 129:23,23 142:25 159:3 180:6,23 202:25 realistic 65:4,7 reality 183:14 really 14:17 15:5,12 16:5 18:5,9,13,17 25:9 26:10 32:2 34:1,19 35:8 39:11 48:8,20 50:19 54:5,13,18 55:7 57:16 58:3,19,23 59:8 60:18 64:16 65:14 67:25 68:4,6 68:20 70:15 78:5,6,18,21 79:6 80:22 81:9 82:20,25 83:5,5 84:18 88:24 89:9 90:3,21 91:24 92:3 99:21,22 100:6,14 101:18 103:4,6 104:14 107:8 109:1,17,22 110:6,7,19 111:2 116:16 116:17,25 120:1,11 122:10,23 123:24 125:11 127:19 131:7 133:3 136:13 136:22 138:6 139:5 150:2 156:22 158:6 159:17 186:1 188:1 189:15 206:2,5 rearrange 195:24 rearranged 195:20 reason 18:23 33:18 49:16 55:13 58:2 59:16 98:24 99:2,3 102:25 121:7 131:10 131:15 136:24 198:24 199:5 reasonably 109:2 October 16, 2024 Page 43 reasons 25:8 93:6 142:13 157:3 204:2 rebuilt 135:17 135:19 recall 36:8 125:17 receive 92:5 received 40:2,3 40:5,6,6,6,7,7 40:7,8,8,8,9,11 40:12,13,13,14 40:16,17,18 71:21,22,23,24 71:25 72:1,2,4 72:5,6,6,7,8,9 72:10,10,13,25 73:3 77:19 85:8 90:16 91:25 93:2 recognizable 32:4 64:13 115:3 137:24 156:22 158:2 192:2 recognize 35:10 55:6 125:11 138:12 156:22 204:7 recognizing 75:6 recommend 111:20 157:12 162:9,24 163:11,19 165:19,20 166:20,22 169:23 170:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 172:25 173:3 173:20,23 176:7 177:17 179:22 181:15 182:14,24 184:5 188:23 191:11 199:25 205:19 206:11 recommenda... 6:19 82:5 162:13 163:9 165:18,23 169:18 170:18 172:16 178:19 182:12 191:16 193:3,6 recommenda... 3:8,10 6:17 72:22 128:22 160:19 161:2 165:15 168:1 204:17 206:23 recommended 2:1,2,3 4:23 5:11,13,16 184:2 188:13 191:14 193:1 200:1 205:7 recommending 33:16 167:18 170:8 174:3 176:14 178:18 179:1 181:2 reconsider 87:11 88:5 93:13 157:10 reconsiderati... 88:20 Meeting [record - resembling] record 7:5 8:20 37:6 46:6 71:11 126:20 160:21 180:9 207:17 208:10 recorded 208:8 records 9:2 redbook 98:21 redesign 38:3 73:14 redundant 17:14 reexamine 106:2 120:13 reference 11:16 11:24 29:16 30:7 134:20 201:7 references 94:8 94:11 referencing 38:18 referred 9:20 198:18 referring 157:16 reflect 10:16 74:24 75:7 77:4 200:6 203:9 reflections 95:17 reflective 203:3 refrain 73:19 refuel 160:18 regard 19:20 57:7 65:2 66:2 103:24 114:1 October 16, 2024 Page 44 121:5,20 123:2 123:16 regarding 36:8 regardless 105:21 register 118:12 related 59:1 73:1 115:20 208:11 relationship 145:20 175:10 relative 208:14 relatively 119:4 relief 145:7,12 152:16 remain 195:14 remains 96:19 remarkable 14:17 82:20 remember 27:20 33:13 34:14,18 35:19 95:14 remembering 22:6 remind 4:11 14:8 27:14 46:4 72:18 73:24 114:5 129:12 reminded 195:8 reminder 44:12 128:3 193:14 reminding 34:19 reminds 27:21 87:17 99:5 129:25 147:10 reminiscent 51:20 137:2 remiss 91:23 remotely 6:4 6:24 remove 18:8 removing 193:5 rendition 53:25 54:7,22 56:1 67:5 80:16 renewal 32:2 renewals 22:17 reorient 52:10 repeat 25:11 157:11 repeatedly 91:18 102:23 repetition 119:6 replace 97:19 116:2,19 193:7 194:6 replaced 10:15 41:17,22 replacing 133:3 191:17 replicas 138:7 replicate 24:21 157:11 replicated 177:19 179:3 reporter 208:22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 represent 13:1 25:13 28:25 29:18 44:8,14 58:21 59:20 125:5 132:1 200:18 representations 124:18 representative 134:6,14 135:24 202:23 203:2 represented 41:13 representing 1:20 2:5,5 4:20 6:1,5 11:10 12:18 13:14,24 43:7,25 44:19 45:5,17 113:12 134:23 186:7 represents 12:22 17:8 112:11 republic 12:12 42:3 44:22 62:11 76:22 86:2,6 request 36:20 requesting 12:6 require 112:18 required 42:2 44:12,21 195:23 resembling 35:16 Meeting [resentful - revert] resentful 27:9 88:8 resolute 19:15 resolution 36:17 73:23 82:21 95:10 resolve 11:20 resolves 154:14 resonance 85:1 139:23 resonant 121:17 resonate 23:16 35:3,8 112:5 137:25 respect 29:10 95:4 107:20 203:23 respectfully 129:12 respects 66:18 respond 4:15 144:22 202:2 response 105:12 responsibility 45:19 rest 17:15 20:20 97:2 102:4,6 105:7 124:24 results 3:6 resumed 37:6 71:11 126:20 160:21 retaining 87:3 rethink 116:7 October 16, 2024 Page 45 return 37:1,3 74:11 80:15 128:14 revelation 82:11 reverse 9:14 10:23 12:19 13:8,15,17,22 16:4,19 17:18 18:17 19:2,7 20:4 21:21,22 22:2,23 24:19 25:16,24 26:12 26:17 28:1 30:16,20 31:1 31:4,25 32:20 33:17,24 38:12 38:15 40:11,12 40:12,13,14,16 40:17,18,19,23 41:8,11,18 42:18 43:2 44:5,5,17 45:2 45:4,13,16 47:5,6,18,21 48:16,16,22 50:1,21,22 54:22 55:1,3 55:15 56:21,25 57:14 58:16,18 58:19,25 59:5 63:1 64:15 66:5 68:3,20 69:18 70:18,19 71:5 72:4,4,5,5 72:6,6,8,9,9,10 72:11,12 73:2 73:5,21 74:4 93:14 96:1 99:7 100:11,14 100:17 102:15 106:1,3,8,10 107:10,15 108:3 109:6,18 109:24 110:10 110:17,18,21 111:16,20,21 113:12,19 114:1,16,19 115:10 116:9 118:4 119:12 121:9 122:5,19 123:18,24 128:12,15,25 129:5,20 132:21 133:8 137:20 139:21 140:14,15,16 140:17,18,19 140:20 141:8 145:11 149:15 150:19 152:1 153:7,18,22,24 154:12 157:1,9 157:12 158:14 158:19 159:21 162:3,13 163:4 163:12,19 164:6,10,15 166:15,16,17 166:20,23 169:24 170:2,8 170:19 171:3 172:25 173:1,4 173:9,21,24 174:4 176:8,15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 177:18,19 178:12 179:1 179:23 181:2 181:13,15,24 182:12,21,24 183:13 184:2,5 188:14,15,19 188:22 191:11 191:15,16 193:1,4 194:7 195:9 197:8,23 200:1,12,18 203:8,20 204:3 204:14 205:5,8 205:12 reverses 12:20 13:3,12 16:4 16:21 18:16,24 18:25 19:20 20:7 24:7 29:2 29:22 30:9 40:10 44:23 45:10 49:7,24 50:6,10 52:13 54:17,21,25 55:10 57:2 66:2 87:16 88:2,14,15 108:6,7 112:25 116:8 117:22 119:3 121:4 124:13 126:10 133:7 140:10 175:11 reversing 157:25 revert 26:3 63:23,25 Meeting [reverts - rosette] reverts 38:4,6 38:16 review 3:3,4 6:14 113:17 reviewed 9:13 reviewing 8:22 revisit 175:6 177:2 178:18 revolution 11:19 12:10 13:14 22:12 185:20 revolutionary 10:6 11:15 ribbon 10:1 19:22,24,25,25 20:4,5 32:14 32:17 ribbons 11:14 richard 8:25 34:22 68:16 rid 19:5 31:19 ride 26:24 ridiculous 56:18 right 9:11 14:7 15:14 16:25 18:11 19:8 20:12,16 27:8 31:5 32:24 33:8,20 36:23 36:24 37:8 39:1,3,20 46:3 46:10 53:9 59:13,13,21 60:16 62:6,6 62:22 64:7 66:7 67:21 October 16, 2024 Page 46 68:10 69:24,24 70:12,13,23 71:1,3 77:25 79:3,4 80:1 82:9 83:19,22 86:5,11,11,24 89:3 93:1,8,15 96:2,8 99:7,9 99:11,18 100:7 100:10 102:1,7 102:8 105:14 105:21 106:13 106:25 107:18 108:6,9 110:20 111:9,15 112:9 114:10,11 115:7 116:14 117:16 121:2 124:6 126:22 130:10,24 132:15 136:5 136:11 140:6,7 140:8,21 142:4 145:16,23 146:4 148:5 151:14 152:5 153:3,18 154:21,25 155:1,6 157:4 158:17,24 160:17,23 161:23 163:18 163:23 164:5,8 164:13,19,22 165:1,6,25 166:3,18,25 167:2,11 169:4 169:10,11,16 170:1,6,13,16 171:14,18 172:18,21 173:2,6,16,18 173:22 175:17 175:21 176:4 176:11,13,20 177:4,11,16 178:2,23 179:13,15,19 180:14,21,24 181:1,6,18 182:9 183:5,17 183:23,25 184:7 185:5 186:14,15,21 187:21 188:7,8 188:10 189:1 189:12 190:9 191:6,10,22 192:7 196:3,12 197:10,14,18 197:20 198:13 199:13,18 200:2,13 201:19,23 202:4,11,24 203:16 205:3,6 205:13 207:10 207:13 rights 22:18 44:7,16 51:4,5 51:6 76:17 79:13 83:16 89:1 110:17 116:9 123:1 126:1,4 152:5 177:5 179:16 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 181:3 199:23 203:25 ring 43:16 132:23 134:13 135:5 185:23 rings 136:12 rising 12:18 risk 106:5 156:13 robes 156:1 rockwell 95:13 95:16 roger 2:9 7:15 205:17,20 roger's 144:17 role 42:4 66:13 76:24 roll 3:2 72:15 139:1 roman 86:2 119:17 room 20:18 206:14,16 roosevelt 9:21 9:23 14:23 16:7 26:4 89:6 94:9,14 98:20 98:23,25 99:5 103:3,20 rosette 114:6 126:12 146:7 146:11,16 147:25 148:2 148:21,23 149:4,24 150:14 151:24 196:8 Meeting [roughly - second] roughly 37:3 round 206:18 row 92:5 95:8 150:10 159:7 159:10 202:6 ruby 83:16 85:13 105:17 110:20 187:17 200:3 rule 12:22 38:19 rules 15:24 run 4:8 156:13 rung 184:19 185:2 runner 126:11 russell 2:10 7:18 s s 3:1 4:1 sad 55:7 safe 47:12 safest 22:23 safety 147:19 sake 59:20 187:14 sam 2:4 5:22 17:25 18:2 19:8 33:9,11 53:10,13 55:18 69:13 79:4 109:20 111:9 113:13 129:3,4 131:6 137:17 137:19 139:8 141:6,7 142:3 152:9,11 October 16, 2024 Page 47 156:10,12 159:2 166:25 174:1 196:3,4 sanders 127:7 sapling 44:18 52:21,24,24 57:10 saplings 52:22 sash 23:24 24:1 24:20 satisfied 84:22 192:23 saturday 95:17 saunders 2:1 5:11 26:21,22 50:25 51:1,2,9 70:7 86:3 87:14,14 97:16 106:23 119:11 140:9,22,22 148:6 154:8 159:23,24 171:2 177:10 177:10,22 178:13 190:4,5 190:15 193:24 193:24 194:3,9 200:25 201:5,5 201:18 save 86:21 saw 21:24 23:17 65:11 96:12 116:25 saying 93:25 109:22 148:18 156:4 187:22 says 17:21 20:5 22:5 28:5 48:17 scale 94:12,17 95:7 scarinci 2:3 5:16,18 25:6,7 39:4,18,21 61:12,13 70:25 85:20,23 86:4 86:23 98:17 99:20 100:4 111:13 135:3 136:7,11 148:15 153:16 157:15 159:6,9 159:14 179:18 181:10,12 188:24 189:2 197:1,2 scheduled 4:7 scheme 198:11 school 204:12 schumer 5:18 scope 51:13 score 36:25 37:2 71:5,5,7 scored 37:10 scores 37:9,14 37:17,20,23 71:15 73:1,3 74:2,6 77:20 127:2,2,21 scoring 3:6 33:4 39:23 40:4,17 72:3 72:12 73:25 74:4 108:7 127:8,10,11,19 127:20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 screen 32:12 163:12 177:12 205:12,18 206:23 script 141:19 sculpt 133:12 133:12 143:15 144:10,21 145:7 sculpted 133:17 143:11 143:19 144:1,9 144:24 sculptors 144:10 sculptural 145:14 sculpture 1:25 5:7 seal 41:8,22 searching 32:6 seattle 60:2 second 4:6 54:24 76:5 78:15,21 105:18,24 114:5 125:17 153:23 154:12 163:14,20,22 166:24,25 169:2 170:4,5 173:5,6,25 177:23 178:1 179:24 181:16 181:17 183:15 183:16 185:6,8 185:11 190:17 192:10 200:23 Meeting [second - seven] 201:20,21,22 secondary 34:1 183:3 seconded 163:24 186:12 seconding 201:3 seconds 171:6 176:10 180:1 181:19,22 207:12 secretary 168:2 184:23 206:12 207:1 see 14:22 16:23 21:9 23:21 25:11 31:7 50:1 51:22 55:12 59:2,3 65:14 79:23 80:7,15,22 81:20 82:3 84:13 85:17 90:25 94:13 103:3 108:16 110:12 111:3 112:16 113:22 114:2 117:3,6 118:20 119:16 119:16 120:8 122:11,19 123:15 140:9 143:22 145:19 145:19 148:9 148:10,10 150:9 152:21 160:11 163:12 167:13 168:9 October 16, 2024 Page 48 168:10,11,19 168:25 172:21 175:24 191:4 206:25 seed 11:16 seeing 20:10 79:7 83:17,17 95:5 96:22 110:10 139:2 seeking 65:21 seem 27:8 58:23 65:7 116:13 127:17 147:21 200:2 seemed 55:2 seems 27:22 48:18 53:1,15 56:25 58:6 65:8 67:5 83:18 97:22 106:19 108:13 133:9 172:8 202:10 seen 11:6,8,22 12:1,8 13:8,22 21:22 24:14 46:12 56:16,17 91:17 112:17 138:14 141:22 148:13 sees 22:7 select 206:10 selected 93:2 182:11 selection 77:24 93:12 104:3 177:1 selectively 200:12,21,22 205:2 self 75:2 semantic 104:12 semi 50:13 155:23 semiquincent... 3:3,5,8,10 6:17 10:9,21 11:8 13:10 21:12 33:14 40:22 41:25 47:3 73:16 74:24 133:23 161:3 162:18 164:15 170:9 181:25 senate 2:2,3 5:14,17 send 197:1,3 sending 101:22 senior 2:9,9,15 7:3,13,16 8:16 sense 15:21 16:9,23 74:20 77:8 82:11 145:14 156:3 167:23 184:15 sent 59:25 sentiment 192:19 separate 53:23 separated 187:7 separately 161:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 separation 67:2 serene 36:13 serenity 83:25 series 6:19 19:13,19,23 20:21 29:21 33:4,15 36:9 47:23 48:19 54:20 55:10 65:2 68:17,17 87:8 101:14 113:5 130:1 serve 67:25 served 33:19 serves 18:11 156:3 service 77:15 185:17 session 4:4,7 49:4 set 10:7 64:9,23 66:17 71:2 77:8,9,9,13 92:15,19 93:8 96:10 97:5 104:23,23 105:7 107:1 124:9 126:13 147:7 155:20 155:23 184:13 seven 72:5 92:16 161:5 171:12,13,13 182:3,4 184:2 190:22 197:18 197:19 205:8 205:18 Meeting [seventy - soon] seventy 149:17 149:18 several 60:11 74:13 88:24 134:16 152:1 200:4 severity 36:10 shade 43:13 shape 94:17 share 20:18,23 36:5 81:17 105:7 124:14 202:13 shared 10:20 59:16 74:25 75:21 97:2 136:6 sheet 33:5 sheets 37:2 71:7 shield 53:16 shift 12:11 61:20 62:4,25 63:12 shirt 72:16 shorter 20:3,5 113:25 shortly 71:4 shoulders 92:23 shout 78:4 show 31:22 42:12 58:9 131:13 156:25 168:16,19,24 showing 24:13 64:15 138:17 203:24 October 16, 2024 Page 49 shows 41:7 44:2 52:8 63:5 91:8 107:23 shrink 148:6 shuttling 127:14 side 21:3 97:7 101:8 105:16 105:19 131:8,9 163:3 187:19 187:19 206:15 206:15 sides 97:8 177:20 179:3 206:14 sidewalls 144:3 144:4 sign 90:3 131:8 signifies 47:7 silhouette 94:16 150:7 silver 129:19 similar 41:13 52:16 61:23 similarity 94:8 94:12 103:3 simple 16:20 24:14 26:7 28:3 57:11 63:4,5 89:5 simpler 28:7 simply 59:17 127:12 144:8 189:20 simultaneous 86:20 103:15 104:21 108:8 131:5 161:15 163:15 167:19 170:21 171:21 171:24 178:6 178:16 180:4 181:20 192:14 194:24 201:2 simultaneously 161:5 single 13:20 89:7 sitting 87:18 six 71:24,25 72:6 88:5 108:19,20 116:2,2 153:13 169:9,11 170:12,13,20 171:11,12,12 173:15 182:21 190:21 197:17 200:17 203:8 size 23:5,20 24:2,5,17 30:11 39:11 47:13 80:4 89:5 103:1 123:5 148:7 sized 123:7 148:18,19 skip 111:10 slavery 138:19 sleeves 72:16 slept 60:14 slight 21:23 81:24 slightly 52:10 60:15,15 88:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 slogan 146:18 153:25 177:14 slogans 149:7 small 18:22 26:11,19 28:4 28:8 30:11 33:4 36:1 82:22 103:8,11 103:12 smaller 62:17 68:24 soapbox 61:10 society 75:13 sold 157:19 sollman 1:24 5:6,9 17:1,3,4 33:22,23 34:2 37:13 47:25 48:1,2 83:7,8 116:4,5 130:12 130:13 132:17 132:19 142:23 142:24 149:13 149:14 151:1 152:7 157:6,7 161:17 162:21 162:23 163:3,8 182:25 183:1,8 207:9 solution 115:4 150:13,15 somebody 52:1 67:14 99:1 160:10 171:25 somewhat 137:9 160:3 soon 9:22 206:25 Meeting [sorceress - statement] sorceress 60:10 sorry 19:23 40:14 76:11 114:12 137:18 145:9 152:10 163:16 166:9 166:21 169:12 169:14 172:2 175:24 177:5 178:4,7 179:22 181:12 182:15 188:16 194:11 sort 21:16 22:6 22:13 29:18 30:1 34:21 35:2 47:11 48:13 66:15,24 66:25 67:25 73:22 105:13 115:2 119:20 127:14 184:16 198:10 sorting 104:11 sounds 131:3 178:20 sovereignty 13:7 space 18:19,20 22:1 32:18 58:10 75:4 80:8 196:20 198:17 spacing 25:20 spark 12:23 28:20 82:21 114:25 sparking 103:21 October 16, 2024 Page 50 speak 17:7 102:11 107:15 114:21 136:20 142:12 144:17 speaker 4:23 68:18 178:9 speakers 68:19 speaking 4:12 14:11 34:21 46:7 86:20 88:3 94:2,3,4 99:21 103:15 104:21 108:8 131:5 161:15 163:15 165:16 167:19 170:21 171:21,24 178:6,16 180:4 181:20 192:14 194:24 201:2 speaks 57:17 special 74:17 151:4 specialist 2:9,9 2:15 7:13,16 8:16 specially 1:17 1:22,24 2:4 5:1 5:7,22 6:9 specific 120:16 specifically 43:1 speech 63:11 spend 87:22 spending 115:15 spent 112:1,15 122:2 206:3 spirit 10:24 137:11 186:7 splat 113:16 split 142:10 167:22 172:8 spoke 46:22 136:3 185:17 sports 38:9,9 spread 27:16 27:17 sprout 52:23 squiggle 187:7 187:11,20 198:4,8 squiggles 198:11 stacked 198:3,7 stacking 198:16,17,19 staff 2:7 7:6 81:8 83:9 84:8 207:6 stafford 2:8 7:9 7:11 9:16,18 35:25 38:17,24 39:1 40:24 41:2 132:7,10 133:25 134:5 135:7 136:10 140:16,18 142:6 145:5,18 153:8,10,12 174:13 175:19 176:22 185:16 187:16 202:12 202:25 stage 10:7 29:16 57:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 85:12 stakeholders 8:21 133:22 134:16 136:3 174:17 203:3 stance 48:7 stand 189:6 standard 91:21 standing 158:1 207:14 standout 14:16 stands 71:1 star 97:20 106:17 stars 11:23 12:15,25 13:2 13:24 18:18 43:16 44:14 55:25 56:2 58:14 67:7 start 9:11 11:2 31:4 57:25 74:11 77:17 81:7 120:17 128:4,21 161:2 172:23 182:19 started 9:12 155:17 167:12 starting 71:20 108:11 114:24 129:1 state 33:12 stated 25:8 131:10 157:3 statement 26:18 64:21 83:12 Meeting [staten - suffrage] staten 67:14 states 1:1 2:7 10:25 22:14 42:14 189:8 200:9 stationary 120:24 statue 20:9 32:3 44:3 45:14 46:24 51:19,23 56:12 56:22 59:19 60:24 66:6 67:13,15,22 81:3 90:19,22 91:3,15 95:3 97:19 98:1,5,6 102:14 106:6 108:17 109:3 119:1 123:20 153:19,21 154:6 155:8,19 156:1,13,19,20 157:22,23 158:18,18 159:25 160:8 statute 38:4 47:7 67:20 91:2 statutory 38:22 stay 93:12 140:4 157:1 stayed 84:18 steadfast 11:20 44:3 stellar 58:3 stevens 1:24 5:6,9 17:1,3,4 October 16, 2024 Page 51 33:22,23 34:2 37:13 47:25 48:1,2 83:7,8 116:4,5 130:12 130:13 132:17 132:18 142:23 142:24 149:13 149:14 151:1 152:7 157:6,7 161:17 162:21 162:23 163:3,8 182:25 183:1,8 207:9 stewardship 42:24 stick 65:17 150:6 sticking 80:9 stone 60:12 82:18 stood 204:15 story 56:3 75:8 78:7 107:16,16 109:18 135:11 175:2,3 straight 34:4 59:24 183:10 street 1:13 65:13 strength 138:18 strengthen 75:12 stretch 13:6 stretching 189:21 stride 49:15 striking 46:18 52:5 80:8 stripes 11:23 strong 36:17 43:17 58:16 96:24 116:10 117:16 143:1,2 200:4 202:14 stronger 95:7 strongest 16:5 47:6 strongly 35:7 36:20 113:15 131:9 154:2 165:17 175:12 struck 92:15 structured 107:13 struggle 62:10 62:12 stuck 116:14 205:1 students 60:19 study 60:22 110:4 studying 87:19 stuff 28:6 36:11 95:18 144:21 stunning 89:4 stunningly 58:13 style 11:5 42:7 65:22 89:16,21 92:6 93:22 96:9 stylistic 96:15 99:18 124:8,12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 125:22 141:19 156:2 stylistically 36:16 121:25 122:4 140:24 145:8 155:21 stylized 43:20 subject 8:21 34:7 74:17 133:25 134:1,7 135:9 137:21 139:13 146:20 150:17 184:10 185:24 191:25 195:17 196:19 197:7 202:14 subsequent 162:10,15 substitute 178:11 subtle 145:12 succeeded 79:23 success 25:13 successful 32:20 succession 61:22 succinctly 79:6 suffering 120:5 120:9 121:1 126:7 suffrage 22:19 51:8 66:20 76:10,15 79:15 110:15 114:1 116:9 120:2,7 122:24 126:1,4 Meeting [suffrage - talking] 126:12 146:4 146:21 147:1 148:9 149:2,5 149:10,15,23 149:25 150:20 151:13,24 152:2 177:8,14 180:18 192:25 193:15,16 194:1,7,9,15 194:18 195:1,8 195:14,19,24 196:8 199:22 suffrages 51:7 89:1 suffragette 70:8,11 suggest 126:14 suggested 190:8 191:16 205:4 suggesting 93:18 162:4 suggestion 98:10 151:23 154:17 178:10 suggestions 85:5 193:14 suite 81:1 sukrita 2:11 7:24 sullivan 2:9 7:12,14 82:3 summation 82:23 summed 79:6 summer 36:10 October 16, 2024 Page 52 summit 71:15 sun 12:18 117:7 sunk 152:15 sunrise 94:22 super 123:13 123:23 131:12 145:12 superhighway 119:21 supervisor 107:7 support 31:21 36:17 123:17 200:8 supporting 31:21 suppose 80:10 supposed 111:2 116:24 117:9 119:20 supposition 177:12 sure 21:19 23:19,25 37:25 47:3 50:12 51:11 52:9 59:23 67:24 81:21 85:22 86:12 92:4 97:2 105:15 107:5 113:18 115:7 117:16 121:11 131:4 131:21 136:1,6 136:25 147:16 178:21 180:11 185:11 186:3 195:22 202:22 203:2 surely 61:6 surface 123:9 surprised 120:7 suspended 84:19 swap 120:16 124:1 189:14 190:6 swapping 189:25 switch 88:8 98:10 120:23 switching 152:20 symbol 11:23 44:6 45:14 52:25 60:25 61:4 118:15 134:22 146:21 149:2 184:25 196:7 symbolic 10:16 13:6 symbolizes 12:2 symbolizing 13:19 44:20 symbols 147:1 symmetry 87:2 system 127:8 127:10,11 129:18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 t t 3:1,1 208:1,1 table 108:10 128:18 140:4 164:9 166:22 173:3,23 177:16 179:21 183:12 184:22 190:10 194:6 197:6 203:7 tail 31:15 take 15:4 37:3 67:21 71:8 101:13 108:6 126:14,16 139:12 143:10 146:19 160:18 161:14 183:25 188:8 206:22 taken 62:3 208:13 takes 43:9 147:8 talk 39:4,14 53:22 56:7 61:7 73:1 83:21 86:7 100:18,19 110:15 116:20 178:13 talked 36:2 58:18 65:20 90:13 106:9 154:23 175:8 talking 69:2 91:12 94:18 103:20 128:4,6 Meeting [talking - think] 158:5 talks 36:7 tally 180:8 talons 13:13 task 101:14,17 102:9 206:13 tasked 101:3 tastefully 15:13 tate 2:15 8:15 191:2 taxed 65:21 teachable 141:15 team 202:16 technical 14:3 45:24 194:13 technology 132:13 teleconference 2:19 tell 78:6 109:17 175:3 tells 56:3 ten 126:16 tend 144:25 tepidly 90:16 term 29:22 54:1 138:8 terms 28:1 32:4 46:20 49:15 50:3,16 70:21 85:1,10 91:21 93:20 94:1,16 104:14 115:25 118:7,8 120:16 125:12,22,25 127:1 134:12 134:23 146:18 October 16, 2024 Page 53 146:23 147:23 153:1 155:5,10 155:22 206:7 test 14:19 119:25 120:2 text 103:11 115:18 116:20 123:8 131:21 139:25 143:22 texts 115:19,24 thank 4:19 5:4 5:10,21,25 9:6 9:18 14:2,14 16:23 17:1,3,5 17:23,24 18:1 19:7,9 20:11 20:13 22:24 23:1 25:3,5 26:20 33:10,20 35:22 36:23 40:20 45:23 46:10 47:24 48:1,23,24 49:2 50:23,24 51:1 53:10,12 55:19,20 57:24 61:11 66:6,8 68:12 69:9,11 69:24,25 70:23 72:14 78:2,11 81:4,5 82:7 83:6,7 84:4,6 85:18 87:12 88:22,23 92:12 92:13 95:24 108:12 111:8 114:9 116:4 117:18,19,21 119:9,10 121:3 124:4,6 127:24 128:7,8 130:12 130:22,23 131:1 132:3,19 133:19 135:1 137:13 139:7,8 142:3 143:16 143:17 145:15 146:14 148:3,4 149:12 150:2 152:22 153:2,5 154:9,22,25 155:2 156:8 157:3,4 159:22 160:23 162:16 162:21 164:2 167:15 175:15 175:17 178:22 179:20 180:2 180:16,25 190:2 192:7,21 196:4 197:25 199:9,12,19 200:13 203:6 204:23,24 205:3 thanks 35:20 36:22 61:10 84:7 113:8 174:1 thematic 14:20 15:7 16:13,17 90:4 95:8 thematically 15:25 90:12 124:9 131:24 206:6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 theme 10:5,17 35:9 42:8,15 51:10 57:9 58:8 60:6,7 61:2,16,17 63:7 75:5,14 84:16 90:23 91:21,22 108:20 109:4 111:16 121:13 121:18 122:15 125:22 136:5 158:7 themes 39:13 56:22 74:19 75:23 92:5,9 thing 22:10,11 26:10 31:4,11 34:17 35:4,18 50:8 62:5 68:24 73:18 82:14 92:15 95:9 100:4 112:13,24 115:17 120:3 125:2 133:5,20 152:11 166:8 189:10 things 27:3,20 31:7 39:12 51:13 69:22 73:1,11 77:5 88:8 100:5 114:18 144:22 161:5 202:17 think 15:6,12 16:1,5,7,8,17 17:10,14,16,19 Meeting [think - three] 17:20 18:4,11 18:18 20:17,25 21:2,4,21,25 22:3,5,23 23:13,13,14,16 24:4,11,15,18 24:20 25:1,3,8 25:14,18,23 26:10 27:2,4 27:24 28:2,8 28:18,24 29:10 29:16,24 30:14 32:13,19 33:18 33:24 34:20 35:12 36:12,16 38:17 46:12,14 46:16 47:5,8 47:12,16,18 48:7,12,15,20 49:5,10,14,23 50:3,6,10,11 50:15 51:17,23 52:4,6,8,17 53:5,6 54:5,8 54:11,18 55:4 55:7 56:1 58:20,22 61:16 63:2 64:8,21 64:22,22 65:8 65:12,17 66:2 66:16,25 67:7 67:9 68:5,18 68:21 70:2,17 70:19,25 72:19 77:12,23 78:6 78:17,18,22 79:5,25 80:12 80:17,25 81:8 October 16, 2024 Page 54 81:11 82:19,24 83:4,22,25 84:12,17 85:16 86:25 87:18 88:3,11,14,15 88:17,24 89:3 89:11,21 90:11 90:15,20 91:2 91:14,16,23 92:2,3,11,15 93:5,7,19 96:5 96:6,9,22 97:10,14 98:2 98:15 99:20,21 99:22,23 100:6 100:20,24 101:6,11,20 102:7,13,17 103:7,16,22 104:13 105:25 106:4,8,12,24 106:25 107:2,9 107:20,24 108:15 109:1,2 109:3,8,12,21 110:6,7,8,11 110:13,21 111:13,14,24 112:8,18,25 113:23 114:14 114:20,23,24 115:14 116:1,8 116:10,16 117:2,4,17 118:18,24 119:4,8 120:1 120:4,5,10,13 120:14,21,25 121:4,6,8,12 121:15 122:10 122:14,15,17 122:20,25 123:12 124:2 124:19,21 125:8,14 126:1 126:4,9,12 127:16 129:23 130:3,8,20,22 131:7,11,19 132:24,25 133:3,10,12,16 135:20 136:2 136:23 137:6 137:10,23,25 139:5,15 140:4 140:23,25 141:2,4,9,14 141:25 143:2,2 143:5,9,11,12 143:13 145:3,5 146:17,24,24 147:18 148:13 148:16,21 149:14,22 150:6,8,15 151:10 152:9 153:22 154:2 154:14 155:9 155:12,15 156:16 157:1,2 157:15,24 158:12,24 159:15 160:7 160:13,17 161:4 164:4,16 167:16,21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 172:13 176:3 183:1 186:5,7 189:3 192:23 197:17 198:9 200:25 204:8 204:20 206:6 206:16 207:2 thinking 20:21 23:7 30:1 34:17 36:15 61:14 63:3 66:12 68:22 90:25 91:5 97:4,5 104:23 115:18,23 137:7 155:4 thinness 23:7 third 75:14 106:15 thirteen 71:23 thirteenth 76:13 thomas 31:12 86:10 thought 19:17 56:14 60:22 64:23 65:23 81:11,25 97:17 98:6 105:20 114:7 134:25 159:13 191:25 thoughts 9:8 106:16 114:13 142:15 152:17 152:20 three 14:19,21 15:24 41:25 44:14 51:3 Meeting [three - towards] 66:12 67:9 72:7,13 75:25 79:2,24 83:22 86:22 88:6 93:6,9,13 94:19,21 96:6 99:3,10,14,17 105:10 116:10 119:15 123:10 130:22 136:2 149:18 164:19 164:20,25 171:11,12,17 173:11,12,15 179:11 182:8,9 184:3 193:2 197:20 205:8 206:7 threes 35:1,13 thrilled 134:2 137:22 throwing 144:19 tie 90:4 93:9,16 96:17,25 110:11,14 165:9 tied 122:15 166:19 ties 61:1 66:18 131:24 tight 103:6 tightly 103:5 tilde 198:22 time 4:5 14:17 15:12 21:10 27:3 30:8 33:12 35:20,24 October 16, 2024 Page 55 38:20 39:9 45:25 49:14 51:21 61:18,23 61:25 62:4,16 63:12,18,18 65:10 66:3 69:15 73:9 75:4 77:3 86:1 89:7 90:1,3 91:17 95:14 98:22 101:11 101:15 112:15 113:19 134:8 134:15,24 135:16 137:3 138:18 145:22 149:19 151:4 157:21 161:1 184:11 185:2 185:19 188:5 193:8,17 201:20 202:13 times 21:1 103:20 108:14 114:20 128:6 144:12 timey 89:21 93:20,23 tiny 129:23,23 today 4:24 6:20 7:7 8:23 9:6,14 40:1 98:2 109:12 132:14 160:4 today's 4:7 6:13 together 44:18 50:18 59:4 73:6,10 75:4 81:20 84:12 87:15 93:9 96:25 107:11 114:13 115:24 124:20 126:2 126:11 145:8 145:19 147:13 205:21 206:4,8 told 149:1 tombs 147:8 tondo 31:23 tone 144:14,20 took 82:6 tool 74:1,7 127:12 top 15:14 20:23 72:3,12 79:12 95:8 111:3 129:6 139:7 140:10,14 146:8 153:11 158:1,2 torch 12:20 13:18,22 17:20 18:21 20:9,10 24:9,13 25:18 25:23 28:2 29:23 32:1,2 33:18,18 35:15 43:15,22,24 44:24 45:4,11 45:14 46:24 47:14 48:6 49:17,17 50:1 50:2 51:14 53:19,22 54:22 57:3 59:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 61:25 63:6,8 63:10,17 64:20 65:7,18 66:6 68:5,23 69:7 70:19 82:22,24 98:15 100:10 100:13 106:11 108:17,24 109:4,5 110:25 111:1,4,17,21 116:23,23 117:13 118:7,7 118:11 119:2 120:24,24 123:12,18,21 123:22 129:8 130:6,9 154:13 155:12 156:1 156:24 157:8,9 157:10 158:2,2 158:14,21 166:11 torches 58:17 torn 18:5 totally 105:10 125:23 tough 25:22 toughest 26:9 toward 31:1 43:19 44:4,11 47:19 48:17 57:3 108:20,23 127:14 towards 67:12 68:8 72:21 73:22 76:21 92:21 93:3 99:15 119:6 Meeting [towards - understandably] 128:21 161:2 track 177:5 traditional 10:3 30:6 42:10 65:25 93:21 115:8 trailing 45:11 train 31:16 transcribed 208:8 transcript 4:13 180:13 208:2,9 transfer 90:9 transformation 104:9 transition 130:4 transitioned 90:2 transitioning 131:18 translate 143:15 147:17 transmittal 172:5 tread 60:21 treasurer 168:1 treasury 168:1 184:23 206:12 207:1 treated 192:3 treatment 145:14 tree 11:16 44:18 141:21 142:19,20,25 143:15 tremendous 124:16 206:1 trend 19:12 31:1 trends 28:11 tricorn 11:15 trouble 104:19 120:25 true 43:2 44:25 45:8 86:5 208:10 truly 83:10 trust 10:20 42:16 54:3 try 14:9 20:19 31:16 36:20 77:6 79:16 110:4 161:4 trying 26:24 50:14 53:16 54:19 59:22 62:7 92:14 93:23 94:3,5 95:23 114:17 124:8 131:25 138:3 149:18 151:14 154:5,6 156:25 206:10 turn 150:21 turning 94:19 106:5 115:1 tweaked 85:6 twelve 72:5 twenty 60:8 189:24 195:25 196:14 twice 89:16,21 October 16, 2024 Page 56 two 4:6 23:17 31:6 45:16 55:21 56:22 70:5 79:10 82:6 92:5,25 99:8,19 100:5 109:7 119:11 122:17 124:4 125:15 126:10 141:5 142:17 145:6,19 149:18 150:21 151:15 159:10 159:15,18 164:24 168:7 171:11,17 174:16 175:9 177:11 179:11 193:2,14,17,25 207:4,5 type 15:16 117:7 124:19 types 14:25 50:17 typo 33:4 tyrannical 12:22 tyranny 10:6 11:10,13,21 13:16,23 16:14 17:22 22:5,16 25:2 35:6 110:22 115:20 129:22 140:1 u u.s. 29:9,17 30:7 41:3 44:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 44:15 83:15 96:20 102:2 144:10 171:23 172:18 189:5,7 189:8,14,18,21 190:1,6,7,11 190:13 208:5 uber 26:23 ultimately 55:14 79:25 80:11,17,25 125:10 141:16 141:25 156:18 unanimous 176:20 unanimously 181:7 186:22 191:15 200:1 undemanding 15:19 under 25:2 38:22 189:19 192:5 208:9 underneath 159:1 191:24 underscore 42:8 understand 16:2 30:10 31:25 52:25 60:7,19 67:11 67:16 75:9 85:6 116:17 134:21 138:5 143:14 154:3 184:18 185:1 understandably 155:10 Meeting [understanding - van] understanding 144:5 185:12 understands 14:24 15:18 120:7 184:24 understood 134:9 135:23 204:18 union 44:11 47:20 48:18 108:21,24 unique 109:12 unite 74:25 united 1:1 2:7 10:25 42:14 189:8 200:9 universal 146:21 unrealistic 65:6 unrelated 105:11 unser 7:2 unum 11:1 13:19 25:21 43:3 79:12 106:18 150:11 153:24 159:12 159:16 unusual 15:25 update 23:15 updated 16:8,9 23:18 54:1 55:2 56:4 updates 15:3,4 upper 19:25 uproar 138:16 October 16, 2024 Page 57 upset 138:4 uptick 131:19 usable 15:5 usages 47:17 use 16:2 18:19 19:16 39:9 58:10 64:7 66:3 127:2,22 149:3 151:24 157:25 195:10 196:13 used 20:10 23:15 27:15 144:13 148:23 152:2 useful 60:22 132:13 172:14 using 54:9,15 63:14 80:22 98:22 100:15 109:13 113:1 113:20 131:1 135:24 141:15 144:14 usually 172:6 v val 94:18 valuable 22:9 22:11 value 160:1,1 values 59:5 74:25 van 1:14,17 4:3 4:19,22 5:4,10 5:19,21,25 6:3 6:8,9 7:4,12,15 7:18,21,24 8:2 8:5,8,12,15 14:2 16:25 17:24 19:8 20:12 22:24 25:5 26:20 28:10 30:25 32:10,23 33:8 33:20 34:5 35:22 36:23 37:8,16,19 40:20 45:23 47:24 48:24 50:24 53:9 55:18 57:22 61:11 64:24 66:7,9 69:11 69:24 70:3,23 71:3,13 72:14 79:4 81:5 82:8 83:6 84:4 85:19,22 87:12 88:22 92:13 93:17 95:6,25 96:4 99:6 102:10,12,19 104:16 105:8 105:18 106:21 107:17 108:5,9 111:9 113:8 114:9 116:3 117:19 119:10 121:2 124:6 126:22 127:24 128:8,9 130:10 130:23 132:4,9 132:11,15 133:20 134:1 135:1 136:17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 137:15 139:8 140:5,11,21 141:6 142:3,7 142:17,20 143:17 145:15 145:21 146:12 148:4,14 149:12 150:3 151:19 152:4,8 153:3,14 154:7 154:9,16,22,25 156:10 157:4 157:13 159:2 160:16,23,24 161:16,19,23 162:12,17 163:1,6,10,16 163:23 164:8 164:22 165:1,6 165:10,25 166:3,6,9,18 167:5,7,11,20 168:5,14,18,23 169:4,10,16,25 170:13,16,22 171:7,14,18,22 172:2,15 173:2 173:12,16,22 174:8,11 175:17,21 176:4,11,20,24 177:15,23 178:2,17,23 179:7,13,19 180:2,11,14,17 180:21,24 181:6,11,14,18 181:21 182:4,9 Meeting [van - wanted] 182:18 183:5 183:11,17,21 184:21 185:5,9 186:14,21 187:1,21,25 188:4,10,16 189:1 190:2,9 190:16,24 191:6,22 192:7 192:12,16,22 193:18,22 194:2,5,11,16 195:6,21 196:12,24 197:5,14,19 198:13 199:13 199:18 200:13 200:22 201:3 201:16,19,23 202:9,24 203:6 203:16 204:24 205:3,15 206:21 207:10 207:13 variations 41:12 varied 75:8 varies 38:24 varieties 112:2 various 8:22 73:1,11 74:17 93:6 147:12 vasquez 2:9 7:15,17 versa 94:20 verses 169:1 version 20:3 October 16, 2024 Page 58 versions 82:16 151:15 versus 27:16 142:11 145:25 168:11,21 vetted 199:6 vice 94:19 victory 11:10 12:2 25:13 video 2:19 view 16:21 28:22 44:2 45:13 58:15 87:1 123:20 viewer 12:5 viewer's 43:21 virtually 93:21 visible 47:14 123:9,14 vision 100:25 visions 162:6 visual 14:19,22 16:6 58:23 59:17 61:2 131:20 visually 15:24 59:6 90:12 199:2 visuals 161:18 voice 5:19 164:17 volition 90:14 vote 56:20 87:9 109:1,23 111:3 125:16 127:12 127:19 129:6,6 139:7 140:10 140:14 141:8 146:8,17 149:19 151:7 164:13,17 167:2 170:7 171:8 173:7 174:2 176:13 178:3,23 180:8 182:17,20 186:15 203:23 205:8 voted 79:22 89:7 97:23 98:4 127:17 165:10 votes 19:3 51:5 55:4 73:25 93:3 111:19 123:13 151:2,6 151:15,25 177:13,19 179:2 188:19 193:5,7 194:6 195:5 voting 151:2 vow 93:23 w waft 11:20 wag 31:16 wait 37:9 77:24 171:25 190:21 203:13 walk 91:13 walking 41:14 41:17 48:9 49:19 54:2,2 55:24 56:24 65:5,13,17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 91:10,17,24 96:14,16,18 98:3,9 105:21 118:19 124:2 154:13,18,18 154:19 155:13 155:24 156:8 157:8 want 4:11,14 8:19 32:14 35:4 37:25 61:3 62:15 66:22 68:24 78:12 84:7 86:7 87:10 91:23 99:2,4 100:5 104:6 130:16 132:7 133:5 139:13 140:13 143:5 144:17 145:19 151:17 152:21 157:11 159:4 168:16 175:6 177:3 180:8 182:24 195:7 199:6 205:16 205:21 wanted 19:22 33:2,6,11 36:4 36:19 61:8 65:23 69:20 70:6 100:5,22 101:23 105:10 106:16 112:6 129:5 130:7 132:2 134:4 135:19 136:1,5 Meeting [wanted - wondering] 139:4 151:22 152:11 159:23 174:14 175:5 175:11 178:15 178:21 186:2 187:14 188:2,8 189:17 200:6 202:1 wanting 83:14 102:1 wants 52:2 83:4 85:13 176:2 war 118:2 135:18 warner 147:5 warren 2:13 6:23 7:1,1 8:8 8:11 128:2,3 161:22 164:21 164:24 167:4,6 167:9 169:9 170:12 171:11 171:17,25 173:11,15 174:7,10 176:19 179:6 179:11 180:5,5 180:12,16,19 180:22 181:5 182:3,8,15 183:20 186:20 186:25 188:15 190:21,25 191:4 197:17 203:13 washed 136:4 October 16, 2024 Page 59 washington 1:13 38:13,14 192:5 208:7 washington's 109:25 116:22 watching 4:10 6:24 126:25 128:5 way 12:21 15:14 28:24 29:1,4 31:24 32:19 43:18 58:8,10 63:13 66:23 72:17 74:12 77:4,7,7 77:13 78:8 82:17 89:2,21 92:19,20 100:10 107:10 107:23 115:18 115:23 127:1,2 136:23 138:5 149:16 150:10 153:18 155:24 175:6 189:6,17 190:1 195:18 ways 22:9 75:10 125:19 we've 18:10 28:3 52:15 57:6,17 70:11 73:4 78:6,7,8,9 79:7,23 80:18 81:16 91:18 93:2 97:12 98:19 99:25 101:17 102:9 110:20 119:9 119:15 120:10 125:15 128:11 141:22 175:8 187:5,19 weak 143:3 wears 11:6 wednesday 1:7 4:4 weight 114:3 147:11 weinman 2:14 8:12,14 37:2 37:22 38:21,25 39:2,15,20,22 51:8 71:7,14 71:18 79:3 127:5 140:13 140:17,19 153:6,9,11,13 154:23 165:8 165:13 166:13 166:15 196:15 weinman's 41:14 welcome 4:9 7:4 117:23 143:18 went 18:25 37:6 54:12 71:11 87:4 99:3 104:12 126:20 148:21 150:13 160:21 207:17 western 93:22 white 143:23 whiteboard 123:4 131:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 widely 185:22 willing 56:9 83:1 115:10 winds 11:19 winged 86:17 wings 13:4,5 86:17 wise 16:1 85:11 95:7 wish 83:23 withdrawn 194:22 woman 17:9 59:2 67:6 91:9 147:25 150:22 woman's 66:23 women 96:14 97:7 124:2 149:20 151:15 151:25 154:13 154:17 177:13 177:19 179:3 193:5,7 194:6 women's 22:18 66:20 76:9,15 194:1,7,9,18 won 97:23 wonder 79:9 wonderful 6:8 14:2 39:11 55:18 59:17 84:9 108:2 110:23 124:22 204:17 wonderfully 141:15 wondering 79:16 80:5 Meeting [wondering - zoomed] 99:2 100:12 118:8,23 142:12,15 162:1 172:9 187:13 word 113:21 113:23,24 149:4,10 150:17 151:13 151:24 152:2 176:8,16 195:8 195:10 205:1 wording 177:18 179:2 190:10 193:4 195:20 197:8 words 20:2 32:22 74:8 121:11 129:22 148:10 151:16 159:16,18,18 167:17 193:25 194:20 195:16 196:13 wore 201:10 work 23:20 24:5,13,18,19 24:22 44:21 48:21 49:12 50:3 53:20 72:15,21 73:21 74:4 80:11 107:10 111:7 114:18 115:24 118:18 119:9 119:12 124:20 125:14,20 126:2,10,12 October 16, 2024 Page 60 129:24 139:16 145:8 149:9 155:13 159:21 206:9 workable 141:21 worked 134:5 working 44:17 50:18 59:4 84:9 128:21 205:24 works 24:24 25:3 47:4,18 50:6,12,19 54:5 83:5 84:18 89:5 106:24 114:23 115:13 122:25 146:24 149:6 150:11 156:6 164:7 world 7:3 35:12,20 61:18 86:1,7 102:5,6 110:3 115:3 118:2 world's 124:25 worry 108:3 worth 20:21 22:6 134:3 160:5 worthy 114:7 wow 205:13 wrap 153:4 202:18 wreath 18:6 19:4 25:12 writing 206:24 wrong 31:12 52:15 89:21 y yeah 33:9 36:7 39:15 54:23 57:25 79:1,24 80:2,11 85:23 86:25 94:21 99:20 102:21 104:13,17 110:21 111:13 122:23 124:4 131:16 132:9 132:11,15 136:4,7 137:10 137:18 140:11 140:13 141:12 141:14 142:19 142:22 145:9 145:22 148:14 152:8,10,24 154:11,19 156:13 159:14 159:21 162:15 167:15 168:21 172:15 185:22 year 15:16 38:18 39:8,13 39:16 101:4 122:1 127:6 years 10:2,7 11:7 13:11 16:10 17:15 18:8 19:5,6 25:12 31:8,9 32:14 42:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 57:9 69:19 74:13 76:6,19 76:23 81:23 83:13 90:25 91:6 113:3 130:5 144:15 149:18,18 154:24 201:15 207:5 yep 153:9,11 153:12 yesterday 6:19 18:9 34:23 59:16 95:22 109:11 146:10 148:22 149:1 192:1,20 193:15 203:4,5 york 136:9 yorker 95:5 young 43:6,12 43:24 60:1 61:24,24 66:24 67:3 69:7 91:10 118:13 younger 85:2 100:16 106:14 youth 43:10 youtube 4:10 z zone 99:23,24 zoom 118:3 zoomed 122:20