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Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 1 1 ________________________________ 2 CCAC Public Meeting 3 ________________________________ 4 5 Moderated by Dr. Lawrence Brown 6 Tuesday, November 28, 2023 7 9:00 a.m. 8 9 10 11 US Mint 12 801 9th Street NW 13 Washington, DC 20220 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 REPORTED BY: Matthew Yancey, Notary Public 22 JOB No.: 6167588 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A P P E A R A N C E S LAWRENCE BROWN - Representing the General Public and Chairperson of the CCAC JENNIFER WARREN - Director of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs and Liaison to the CCAC ARTHUR BERNSTEIN - Representing the General Public HARCOURT FULLER - Recommended by the Speaker of the House 10 KELLEN HOARD - Representing the General Public 11 CHRISTOPHER CAPOZZOLA - Specially Qualified in 12 American History 13 JOHN SAUNDERS - Recommended by the House Minority 14 MICHAEL MORAN - Recommended by the Senate 15 Majority 16 DONALD SCARINCI - Senate Minority Leader 17 DENNIS TUCKER - Specially Qualified in 18 19 20 21 22 Numismatics PETER VAN ALFEN - Specially Qualified as a Numismatic Curator APRIL STAFFORD - Chief, Office of Design Management www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 3 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 MEGAN SULLIVAN - Senior Design Manager 3 GREG WEINMAN 4 ROGER VASQUEZ - Senior Design Manager 5 PAM BORER - Design Manager 6 RUSSELL EVANS - Design Manager 7 BONEZA HANCHOCK - Design Manager 8 SUKRITA BAIJAL - Design Manager 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 4 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 MS. WARREN: Good morning. This is 3 Jennifer Warren, the liaison to the U.S. Mint, I mean, 4 the CCAC from the U.S. Mint. 5 this both on YouTube as well as for archival purposes 6 just to let the public know. 7 can hear us, and we will be starting. 8 Court Reporter? 9 REPORTER: 10 MS. WARREN: 11 DR. BROWN: 12 MS. WARREN: 13 We will be recording And hopefully everybody Are we good, Yep. Dr. Brown, are you good? Uh-huh. Okay. We will start now, so I will hand it off to Dr. Brown. 14 DR. BROWN: Good morning, everyone. 15 call to order this meeting of the Citizens Coinage 16 Advisory Committee for Tuesday, November 28th, 2023. 17 The time is 8:59. 18 MS. WARREN: 19 DR. BROWN: I 9:00. 9:00. Today's session is 20 scheduled to run until approximately 4:30, maybe a bit 21 earlier. 22 will be the first time it is streamed live to the Today's meeting is being recorded and it www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 5 1 public rather than over the phone. 2 I'd like to introduce members of the committee. 3 Please respond present when I call your name. 4 5 Before we begin, Arthur Bernstein, Representing the General Public. 6 MR. BERSTEIN: 7 DR. BROWN: 8 Recommended by the Speaker of the House. 9 10 11 Dr. Harcourt Fuller, DR. FULLER: DR. BROWN: Present. Present. Kellen Hoard, Representing the General Public. 12 MR. HOARD: Present. 13 DR. BROWN: Dr. Christopher Capozzola, 14 Specially Qualified in American History. 15 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 16 DR. BROWN: 17 Present. Michael Moran, Recommended by the Senate Majority Leader. 18 MR. MORAN: Present. 19 DR. BROWN: Donald Scarinci, 20 Recommended by the Senate Minority Leader. 21 MR. SCARINCI: 22 DR. BROWN: Present. Dennis Tucker, Specially www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 6 1 Qualified in Numismatics. 2 MR. TUCKER: 3 DR. BROWN: Present. Dr. Peter van Alfen, 4 Specially Qualified as a Numismatic Curator. 5 DR. VAN ALFEN: 6 DR. BROWN: 7 Present. John Saunders, Recommended by the House Minority Leader. 8 MR. SAUNDERS: 9 DR. BROWN: No audible response. We will move forward. And 10 I Dr. Lawrence Brown, representing the General Public 11 and Chair of the CCAC. 12 for today's session includes the following -- approval 13 of the minutes and the letter to the Secretary for the 14 October 24 and October 25 public meetings. 15 discussion of the national medal for the use as the 16 2028 Los Angeles Summer Olympics Games "handover medal 17 -- medallion" during the closing ceremony of the 2024 18 Paris Summer Olympics. 19 candidate designs for the 2025 American Innovation $1 20 coin, honoring innovation in Arkansas. 21 discussion of candidate designs for the Flowing Hair 22 Gold Coin and Silver Medal. We have a quorum. The agenda Review and Review and discussion of Review and Review and discussion of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 7 1 candidate designs for the Army Rangers of World War II 2 congressional Gold Medal. 3 candidate designs for the 2025 American Innovation $1 4 coin honoring innovation in Michigan. 5 review and discussion of candidates designs for the 6 2025 Native American $1 coin. 7 Review and discussion of And finally, Before we begin our proceedings, I ask 8 that the U.S. Mint liaison to the CCAC, Ms. Jennifer 9 Warren, if there are any members of the press who have 10 remotely signed on to the meeting? 11 MS. WARREN: Yes, sir. Mike Unser 12 Founder and Editor of CoinNews Media Group and Paul 13 Gilkes, Amos Media/Coin World Senior Editor. 14 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 15 record, I would also like to confirm that the 16 following U.S. Mint staff are attending today. 17 indicate present after I have called your name. 18 19 Please April Stafford, Chief Office of Design Management. 20 MS. STAFFORD: 21 DR. BROWN: 22 For the Present. Megan Sullivan, Senior Design Manager. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 8 1 MS. SULLIVAN: 2 DR. BROWN: 3 Present. Roger Vasquez, Senior Design Manager. 4 MR. VASQUEZ: 5 DR. BROWN: 6 MS. STAFFORD: 7 DR. BROWN: Russell Evans, Design 9 MR. EVANS: Present. 10 DR. BROWN: Boneza Hanchock, Design 8 11 Present. Pam Borer, Design Manager. Manager. Manager. 12 MS. HANCHOCK: 13 DR. BROWN: 14 Not present. Present. Sukrita Baijal, Design Manager. 15 MS. BAIJAL: 16 DR. BROWN: Joseph Menna, Chief 18 MR. MENNA: Present. 19 DR. BROWN: Michael Costello, Manager 17 20 Present. Engraver. of Design and Engraving. 21 MR. COSTELLO: 22 DR. BROWN: Present. Jennifer Warren, Director www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 9 1 of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs and 2 liaison to the CCAC. 3 MS. WARREN: 4 DR. BROWN: 5 Present. Greg Weinman, Senior Legal Counsel and Counsel to the CCAC. 6 MR. WEINMAN: 7 DR. BROWN: Present. Brendan Tate, Senior 8 Government Affairs Specialist and Office of 9 Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs. 10 MS. WARREN: 11 DR. BROWN: 12 He is present. Mike White, Office of Corporate Communication. 13 MR. WHITE: No audible response. 14 DR. BROWN: And finally, I just want to 15 note for the record that we will be joined later 16 during this meeting by the following liaisons. 17 the 2025 American innovation $1 coin honoring 18 innovation in Michigan, we will have Judge Steven 19 Bieda, Chairman of the Michigan Tax Tribunal. 20 2025 American innovation $1 coin honoring innovation 21 in Arkansas, we will have Dr. Blake Wintory, Arkansas 22 Heritage Museum Services Director of the Arkansas www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 For For the Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 10 1 Department of Parks, Heritage and Tourism. And we 2 will have Dr. Montague, son of Raye Montague and is 3 Associate Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and 4 Professor of Criminal Justice and Criminology at the 5 University of Arkansas at Little Rock. 6 Rangers of World War II congressional Gold Medal. 7 will have two persons, Ron Hudnell, Congressional Gold 8 Medal Project Manager of the Descendants of WWII 9 Rangers and we will have Mr. Jimmie Spencer, Senior For the Army We 10 Fellow of the Association of the United States Army as 11 well. 12 for the 2028 Los Angeles Summer Olympics Games 13 "handover medallion" during the closing ceremony of 14 the 2024 Parasum Olympics, we will have, in fact, Mr. 15 Peter Zeytoonjian, Senior Vice President of Commerce 16 and Events at the United States Olympic and Paralympic 17 Properties and Mr. Taylor Reynolds, Senior Manager of 18 Consumer Products at the United States Olympic and 19 Paralympic Properties. 20 for the 2025 Native American $1 coin. 21 Harman, who is the great granddaughter of Mary Kawena 22 Pukui. For use as -- for those and for the liaisons We will have three liaisons Ms. Pele And representative of her father, we will have www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 11 1 Ms. Dodie Browne, granddaughter of Mary Kawena Pukui. 2 Excuse me. 3 Reynolds, who is the Associate Curator at the 4 Smithsonian’s National Museum of the American Indian 5 with a focus on Native Hawaiian history and culture. 6 And we will have Ms. Halena Kapuni- I would like to begin with the Mint to 7 ask are there any other issues that need to be 8 addressed at this time? 9 Hearing none, the first order of 10 business for the committee is the review and approval 11 of the CCAC minutes and the letter to the Secretary of 12 Treasury from our public meetings on October '24 and 13 2025, 2023. 14 15 Are there any comments on the documents? 16 17 Hearing none, is there a motion for approval of the minutes and the letter? 18 19 MR. BERSTEIN: approval. 20 DR. BROWN: 21 DR. VAN ALFEN: 22 Arthur Bernstein moves Is there a second? Did everyone else second? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 12 1 DR. BROWN: 2 objections to the motion? 3 none. Very good. Are there any Any abstentions? Hearing All those in favor say aye. 4 GROUP: Aye. 5 DR. BROWN: Hearing none. Opposed, nay. Any 6 abstentions? Not without objection, 7 the minutes and the letter are approved. 8 typically my approach in these matters, I thought it 9 would be useful for me to share a few comments As is 10 particularly about where we are at this time of the 11 year. 12 Americans as it commemorates both Thanksgiving and 13 Veterans Day, two occasions that resonates with deep 14 gratitude and reflection. 15 the fourth Thursday of November, is a time for 16 families and friends to gather, express gratitude, and 17 appreciate the blessings in their lives. 18 a reminder to cultivate a spirit of thankfulness and 19 acknowledge the importance of community and unity. 20 hope and pray that all those up here physically 21 present and participating virtually enjoyed such an 22 experience recently. November holds a special place in the hearts of Thanksgiving, celebrated on It serves as In the same month, on November www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 13 1 11th, the nation pays homage to its veterans on 2 Veteran Day. 3 marking the anniversary of armistice that ended World 4 War I, Veterans Day serves as a solemn reminder of the 5 sacrifices made by the men and women who selfishly 6 defended this country. 7 celebrations that took place last Thursday, it remains 8 crucial to extend our gratitude to those who have 9 safeguarded our freedom and contributed to the peace First celebrated on November 11th, 1919, As we reflect on Thanksgiving 10 and security we cherish. 11 not only for reflecting on personal blessings, but 12 also for recognizing the collective sacrifices that 13 shape this nation's history and allow the traditions 14 of Thanksgiving to endure. 15 those of the 7 percent of the U.S. population of 16 veterans, I salute them as well as another 1.4 million 17 Americans serving in the military. 18 represents another important extension of our thanks 19 for two of the programs before us allows us to 20 remember Americans who have directly or indirectly 21 contributed to preserving the freedoms we enjoy. 22 November has become a month While I am certainly among This meeting We will next review -- first review the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 14 1 obverse and reverse candidate designs for the national 2 medal for use as the 2028 Los Angeles Summer of 3 Olympics Hanover medallion during closing ceremony of 4 the 2024 Paris Summer Olympics. 5 of the Men's Office of Design management, who 6 introduced a design. 7 MS. STAFFORD: April Stafford, chief Thank you. In 2024 8 France is hosting the Summer Olympics in Paris. And 9 in 2028 the United States will be hosting the Summer 10 Olympics in Los Angeles, California. At the 11 conclusion of each Olympic and Paralympic Games, the 12 presiding host country and the host country of the 13 next Olympic and Paralympic Games participate in an 14 official handover of the Games. 15 ceremonies, typically, the mayors of the host cities 16 join the International Olympic Committee or 17 International Paralympic Committee presidents on 18 stage, and the flag of the Games is lowered and passed 19 from mayor to mayor as a symbolic highlight. 20 addition, each host nation has typically provided an 21 official gift, typically, a coin or medallion, as part 22 of an official handover for the Games, serving both as During the closing www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 In Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 15 1 an expression of goodwill between nations and a signal 2 of a major milestone in the Games itself. 3 handover coin or medallion marks the handoff of the 4 Games and celebrates the two cities and countries 5 hosting them. 6 seeking Secretary of the Treasury authorization to 7 Mint Silver National Medals to be provided to the 8 United States Olympics and Paralympics properties for 9 the purpose of presentation as handover medallions to The The United States Mint is currently 10 their French counterparts in conjunction with the 11 closing ceremonies of the 2024 Paris Summer Olympic 12 Games and Paralympic Games. 13 authorization, the Mint would appreciate your input on 14 the following potential candidate designs. 15 designs for the National Medals to be used as Olympic 16 handover medallions are designed for a three-inch 17 planchette. 18 requirements, but the final medals will likely feature 19 an official LA 28 Olympics and Paralympics emblem, a 20 redacted placeholder for which is featured on some of 21 the designs you'll be seeing. 22 design pairing that does not feature this placeholder In anticipation of this Candidate There are no specific design Should you recommend a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 16 1 emblem, we request you also make a recommendation on 2 the placement for that emblem. 3 Design elements in the candidate 4 designs include visual references to Los Angeles and 5 Paris, including, for example, skylines and famous 6 landmarks such as the Eiffel Tower, the Arc de 7 Triomphe, the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum, and the 8 Hollywood sign. 9 victory, Nike's wings, and the winged Victory of 10 Samothrace. Depictions of Nike, goddess of Did I pronounce that correctly? 11 MR. MENNA: Yes. 12 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. And other 13 references to the Olympics, for example, the torch. 14 We have not divided this portfolio into obverse and 15 reverse candidate designs. 16 options and discuss the potential pairings. 17 move through the candidate designs. 18 one. 19 the Olympic -- U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Properties 20 as a strong design. 21 designed identified by our liaisons, with the U.S. 22 Olympic Games and Paralympic Properties. So you'll see all of the So we'll We have design This design was identified by our liaisons with Two, three, four, another www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Five, six -- Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 17 1 design six was identified by our liaisons as well as a 2 preference, a recommendation by the U.S. Commission of 3 Fine Arts for the obverse. 4 13, and 14. 5 designs by our liaisons, and 14 was identified as the 6 recommendation by the CFA as the reverse. 7 there were some recommendations by the CFA starting 8 with the reverse that you're seeing here. 9 recommended that the design be slightly revised to Design 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13 and 14 were identified as strong Although They 10 pull in so you can see more of the Coliseum. 11 obverse, if we can go back to design 6, they made some 12 observations that the weighting of the LA 28 emblem 13 and the Paris 2024 could potentially be reconsidered 14 to make them a little bit more equivalent. 15 our chief engraver has thoughts on both of those 16 suggestions by the CFA. 17 like to hear those Chairman Brown. 18 candidate designs. 19 DR. BROWN: And the I do know If at any point you would That concludes the Thank you so much. I would 20 like to ask the committee, are there any technical or 21 legal questions that you have about this program or 22 these designs before we begin our general discussion? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 18 1 Art? 2 MR. BERNSTEIN: 3 Bernstein. 4 technical question. 5 in the middle of the design. 6 MS. STAFFORD: 7 MR. MENNA: This is Arthur Could you bring up design nine? I had a I wasn't clear what that item is Joe? I think all the artists, in 8 different ways, tried to answer the call to 9 incorporate the Nike of Samothrace, some very 10 literally with the statue itself, some with winged 11 victories based on Greek, that vase painting and 12 mosaics. 13 symbolically representing the Nike. And this one is just the wing, also 14 DR. BROWN: Thank you. 15 MR. MENNA: Sure. 16 DR. BROWN: Any other questions from 17 the committee? Hearing none. Seeing none. 18 begin our (inaudible) consideration and given the 19 robust agenda that we have before us, for efficiency, 20 let me suggest that committee members feel free and 21 comfortable to, say, pass or a single sentence to 22 support a particular candidate design should a member www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Before we Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 19 1 who precedes you articulates sufficiently your view. 2 For the benefit of the court reporter and the public, 3 I ask that you state your name when you -- before you 4 begin speaking. 5 Let's begin with Dennis Tucker. 6 Let us begin our consideration. MR. TUCKER: 7 I apologize. 8 brief. 9 available for public sale? I did have a question. And I'll keep this I was wondering if these medals will be made 10 11 Thank you, Mr. Chair. MS. STAFFORD: discussion for us. 12 That has not been a We have no decision on that. MR. TUCKER: Thank you. I like the 13 kind of urban art feel of number one. That was a 14 design that caught my eye, and I think it would make a 15 very nice obverse. 16 out at me as strong designs for the reverse. 17 are the two that would have my support. 18 Congratulations to the Mint artists on a great 19 portfolio. And then, 13 and 14 really jumped 20 MR. MORAN: Thank you. 21 DR. BROWN: Thank you. 22 MR. MORAN: This is Mike Moran. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So those Mike? I was Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 20 1 particularly taken by the image of number six. 2 it struck a note that is what I envision an Olympian 3 coin or medal to look like. 4 but I prefer 13 over 14 because the Memorial Coliseum 5 to me is more recognizable in that presentation than 6 it is in 14. I also like 13 and 14, That's it. 7 DR. BROWN: 8 DR. VAN ALFEN: 9 Peter Van Alphen. Thank you so much. Peter? I'm happy -- this is I'm happy to agree with Mike and 10 the CFA. 11 adjustments to the waiting and R-14 or R-13. O-06, I think, would work well with 12 DR. BROWN: 13 DR. VAN ALFEN: 14 To me, with those selections. 13. 13. Yeah. So happy Thank you. 15 DR. BROWN: 16 DR. FULLER: Thank you. Harcourt? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 17 This is Dr. Harcourt Fuller. I really, really like O- 18 04, because I think it represents both cities well. 19 And I will also endorse R-13. Thank you. 20 DR. BROWN: Thank you. 21 DR. BROWN: This is Arthur Bernstein. 22 Art? For me, a fundamental principle was that at least one www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 21 1 side of the coin, the medallion should spell out the 2 names of both cities. 3 like to see the words Los Angeles, not just LA. 4 I'd like to see Paris. 5 towards design four. 6 the famous imagery of the two architectural features 7 of each of the cities. 8 medallion, I liked design nine. 9 the names of the cities on one side of the medallion, And I mean spell out, I would And And for that reason, I lean I find it elegant, and you have For the other side of the If we're featuring 10 I like the idea that the flags of the two nations 11 would be on the other side of the medallion. 12 you. 13 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 14 MR. SCARINCI: Thank Donald? First, very briefly, and 15 in general, whatever is going on in the chief 16 engraver's office, please keep doing it. 17 fabulous grouping. 18 we're seeing today is just a fabulous -- it's kind of 19 fresh. 20 So having said that briefly, and I could say a lot 21 more about that, but good job. 22 think number one is an opportunity not to be missed. This is a Not just in this set, but what I mean, that's the word I would describe it. Good job, Joe. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And I Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 22 1 It does spell out -- it does name the two cities, 2 which I agree is an important feature. 3 on this piece somewhere. 4 modern. 5 with the new. 6 achieve. 7 another look at that before you vote, because that's 8 really kind of collagey and if we're going to do -- 9 and if we're going to make a depiction of the two It has to be It's different. It's I just think it combines sort of classical It achieves what you're looking to For those who think who like O-04, just take 10 cities, we would be duplicating this if we go with the 11 R-14, R-13, R-14, right? 12 duplicate the reverse on the obverse. 13 like everybody's going with either 13 or 14 for the 14 reverse. 15 against number four. 16 number five and number seven, you know, are just -- I 17 just think stunning. 18 illusion in five, I get a feeling we're going to see 19 more of that, and that's all good. 20 know, what's going on above it, but number seven is 21 modern. 22 the names of the two cities, which I agree is, as, you So I don't think you need to And it seems So I would ask you to reconsider support It's sleek. As a kudo -- as a design kudo You know, I think the classical I don't like, you It does unfortunately not have www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 23 1 know, Art said, I agree that's an important design 2 element. 3 fascination with it to be honest. 4 of whimsical. 5 classical garb carrying the Olympic torch. 6 I don't think ballet is an Olympic -- is a competition 7 in the Olympics. 8 is. 9 the rays, you know, kind of just there. As to number six, I don't see the I think it's kind It looks like a ballet dancer in You know, I'm not sure, but I don't think it So I just don't see, you know, and then there's So it's 10 probably my least favorite, you know, of the ones 11 we've talked about. 12 but that's it. 13 And I'm sorry I spoke so long, DR. BROWN: 14 your thoughtful comments. 15 move on to Kellen. 16 MR. HOARD: Thank you. Thank you for We appreciate that. Thank you. Let's I also thought 17 14 was a really compelling design. You know, I felt 18 like it had a perspective, which is what we don't 19 usually see on -- we usually see depictions on coins 20 but being maybe not an immersive perspective. 21 feel like when I'm looking at this, when I have that 22 perspective, it's kind of an example of showing not www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And I Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 24 1 telling in many ways. And I think it, you know, takes 2 advantage of the three-inch space well. 3 uses its space effectively. 4 surprised with myself that I liked one. 5 think I would, and at first glance, I didn't. 6 reflection, I do. 7 you know, it's creative, it uses space well. 8 stands apart stylistically. 9 and modern elements interestingly. I think it I also was kind of I didn't But in The more I look, I feel that it is, It It combines the classical I also want to 10 give a shout out to seven. I thought seven was 11 really, really kind of neat and did space well, but 12 for the same reasons as Donald. 13 to give it artistic credit, but maybe not necessarily 14 have it be one of the options here, and it doesn't 15 maybe pair stylistically with some of the other ones. 16 And then also, I agree with Donald on four and six in 17 terms of four kind of looking a little collagey for my 18 taste, but still interesting. 19 just not maybe holding up to some of the other really 20 fantastic designs in the portfolio. 21 little bit in that I would propose 14 be the obverse 22 and 1 be the reverse. I don't think I want And six being fine, but I might diverge a The reason being, like I said, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 25 1 I think when I'm picking up a coin or a medal for the 2 first time and I see one that has a really established 3 point of view or perspective, like this one, it really 4 draws me into the piece and makes me want to look at 5 it more closely. 6 with that piece more. 7 that really effectively. 8 that piece from the table and look at it closely and 9 turn it over to see what's on the back or on the It makes me want to actually engage And I think this design does It makes me want to pick up 10 reverse, which is itself another quite interesting 11 design in one. 12 like it draws me into the piece quite as much. 13 feel we should have it on the medal, but really draw 14 our viewers in, express our creativity, express this 15 transition between cities with 14 as the obverse and 16 one as the reverse. One is interesting, but I don't feel So I Thank you. 17 DR. BROWN: Thank you. 18 DR. CAPOZZOLA: Turn to Chris? All right. This is 19 Chris Capozzola. Again, I'm excited about this 20 portfolio, and overall, I'm very excited about 13 and 21 14. 22 but now, hearing Kellen, I'm not so sure. I had been thinking about them as the reverse, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I would Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 26 1 lean a little more toward 14 because it's just a 2 little bit cleaner. 3 from A to B, from Paris to Los Angeles, which is one 4 of the tasks of this medal that I liked a lot. 5 was very excited about one on the following grounds 6 that this should be a coin that looks like it was -- 7 or a medal that looks like it was struck in 2024, not 8 in 1920 when the Paris Olympics happened, or 1932, and 9 in Los Angeles, and this has a sort of much more I think it successfully conveys I also 10 modern and contemporary feel. I do have some concerns 11 about number four. 12 angle of movement is in the wrong direction. 13 almost looks as going from Los Angeles to Paris rather 14 than the other way around. 15 accuracy, the Eiffel Tower is not surrounded by trees, 16 and Los Angeles appears twice here LA. 17 what that symbol is on the top and Los Angeles at the 18 bottom. 19 but a lot of enthusiasm. In particular, I felt that the It And then just in terms of Depending on So those are some concerns that I have there, 20 DR. BROWN: Thank you. 21 MR. SAUNDERS: 22 DR. BROWN: John? Yes. Colleagues, I must confess www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 27 1 that you all have articulated points of view that I 2 embrace in some ways and others I do not. 3 probably give my vote for the obverse to be 14 and the 4 reverse to be one for the reasons that have been 5 articulated. 6 motions from members at this time? 7 But I would Are there any additional comments or MR. BERNSTEIN: This is Arthur 8 Bernstein. 9 when I first spoke, and at the risk of sounding like a 10 grouchy old man, I was not supportive of design number 11 one or two because to me, the words, Los Angeles, I'm 12 assuming that's meant to emulate graffiti, which to me 13 is a crime. 14 graffiti. 15 16 I had one other comment I forgot to make And I didn't want to glorify the crime of MR. SCARINCI: If I may? Graffiti is art. 17 DR. BROWN: Joe Menna? 18 MR. MENNA: Yes. Interesting topic to 19 bring up as Banksy's identity was just revealed 20 yesterday in the press. 21 days was definitely an act, but it is a form of 22 protest that dates back to the Roman Empire. Graffiti, yes, in the old www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 But Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 28 1 street art, which is not graffiti, which is graffiti 2 legal, is ubiquitous across the country and one of the 3 most prevalent and Avant-garde art forms out there. 4 I'm not saying this embodies that, but just talking 5 about street art in general, and I'm not trying to 6 correct you or change your opinions that aren't 7 validated. Thank you. 8 DR. BROWN: 9 DR. FULLER: 10 DR. BROWN: 11 DR. FULLER: Thank you. Mr. Chairman? Yes, please. Harcourt? This is Dr. Fuller. Yeah, 12 I just want to comment as well. I think that with 13 many kind of, shall we say, popular styles of art, 14 sometimes they start out one way in which they are 15 unlawful, not really valued, and over time they become 16 mainstream, whether we're talking about genres of 17 music or art. 18 has, you know, has been popular both in LA and other 19 American cities and certainly in Paris. 20 that the connotation of graffiti or street art has 21 drastically changed to an accepted and respected art 22 form today. And I think that graffiti or street art Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So I think Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 29 1 MS. STAFFORD: Chairman Brown, the 2 chief engraver just reminded me to share with the 3 committee this element, this type of element or 4 approach. 5 actually part of the input that was provided by our 6 liaisons at the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Property. 7 So it was a response by the artists to that. 8 9 10 11 Street art, kind of a grittiness, was DR. BROWN: I wonder if any of the liaisons would like to add any further comments based on what they've heard from the committee members? MR. ZEYTOONJIAN: Sure. This is Peter 12 Zeytoonjian, with U.S. Olympic Paralympic Properties. 13 Thank you for your time. 14 would just say thank you for your time today. 15 Olympics have not been in the United States since 16 2002, four months after September 11. 17 has not seen the Olympics in the United States. 18 what will happen at the end of the Los Angeles Games, 19 Los Angeles, along with Paris and London, will be the 20 only three cities to host an Olympic Games ever, both 21 winter and summer. 22 I personally tend to lean towards 13 and 14 and do I tend to agree -- first, I The So a generation And As it relates to the designs here, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 30 1 prefer a goddess of victory on whatever side is 2 appropriate based on your knowledge here. 3 to the street art comment, part of the emblem of the 4 LA 28 Grant is actually around street art. 5 Angeles, there's murals all over the city that are 6 actually commissioned versus, you know, under bridges 7 that people take pictures from. 8 culture of LA. 9 DR. BROWN: 10 As a relief And in Los So it's part of the Thank you. MR. SCARINCI: Mr. Chairman. If I can 11 just say one brief thing about street art. 12 to collect pictures of street art. 13 country. 14 you know, very modern, very us, very 21st Century, 15 even though it's been around since -- as the chief 16 engraver says, since ancient times. 17 even see more of this kind of thing on future designs, 18 so I encourage it. 19 will have more discussions about street art, I'm sure, 20 you know, in private conversations that don't relate 21 to any coins, but I encourage it. 22 brilliant to use it in this context, you know, and in It's international. I happen It is all over the It's totally something, And I'd like to I hope the rest of the committee I think it's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 31 1 this form. It's just very American. 2 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Let me 3 suggest something for the committee to consider. 4 from a process standpoint. 5 clear about what we expect on one side of this medal 6 and the other side of this medallion, rather -- and 7 the other side. 8 that we are clear about what's the obverse and what is 9 the reverse. We'd like to really be So let me suggest that as we score, So we're going to make sure that when we 10 add the score sheet, modify it to be able to 11 accomplish that. 12 Just make sure you ask Joe. 13 I go do that about the scoring. 14 chief and waiver. 15 As So if there's any question? MR. MENNA: Please? So let me do this before Let me come back to a Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 16 Menna (inaudible) 13 or 14. I just wanted to add a 17 comment regarding I think it was brought up that the 18 CFA recommended zooming in so that the Forum could be 19 seen more. 20 that. 21 the artist has made the Forum carry over the Arc de 22 Triomphe's horizontal along the bottom, that serves as And I understand the literal utility of But from a compositional standpoint, the way www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 32 1 the pediments for the two sculptural compositions, it 2 gives you a strong horizontal. 3 points up towards the logo arc framed by the arc of 4 the arc, to say it like that, I think there is a 5 structural integrity to this that adding a literal 6 kind of photographic or cinematic zoom in, it would 7 lose the structural integrity. 8 solid. 9 consider that it may be more solid like this. And the way the Forum I think it's more I think as a designer, the committee might And 10 that's just my perspective, and I'm not trying to 11 change anyone's opinion. 12 13 14 MS. STAFFORD: And it's a three-inch planchette. MR. MENNA: Yeah. It's a three inch -- 15 this is like a Congressional Gold Medal size. 16 going to read just beautifully. 17 the form is the one with Richard (inaudible) Miller's. 18 I mean, with Richard what's his name's. 19 sculptures on top of it. 20 DR. BROWN: This is I mean, the Coliseum, Horrible So let me come back to the 21 process as we go forward, because I saw the hand of 22 Dennis -- I think of Chris, Dennis. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 33 1 2 DR. CAPOZZOLA: answered. 3 4 I have no questions. MR. TUCKER: as well. 5 My question was My question was answered Thank you. DR. BROWN: John, do you want to weigh 6 in on this in terms of your view of these candidate 7 designs? 8 9 MR. SAUNDERS: I just got on the thing. I'm not quite sure how I did it. I've got somebody 10 from my office on the way to my house to set up teams. 11 I've been trying to log on through Zoom and your IT 12 department is trying to tell me how to get Teams and I 13 don't think you'll get it. 14 I'm lost. 15 16 DR. BROWN: Where are we, Dr. Brown? I tell you what, John, we'll come back to you perhaps on the next one -- 17 MR. SAUNDERS: 18 DR. BROWN: 19 MR. SAUNDERS: 20 DR. BROWN: That'd be fine. -- if you don't mind? That'd be great. So just as a reminder, my 21 colleagues from a process going forward of the scoring 22 that we want to make sure that we indicate clearly on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 34 1 the score sheet what is the obverse and the score with 2 respect to that and what is the reverse. 3 that? 4 to do that? How do we do From a compilation standpoint, I'm not sure how 5 MR. WEINMAN: This is Greg Weinman, 6 maybe as a point of convenience maybe one possibility 7 is score and then have a subsequent conversation about 8 what would make a good offer. 9 able to capture the points properly. 10 MS. STAFFORD: 11 DR. BROWN: Otherwise, I won't be Yeah. Any reservation or 12 objection to that approach? 13 none. 14 designed for the National Medal for the use of a 2028 15 Los Angeles Summer Olympic Games handover medallion 16 during the closing ceremony for the 2024 Paris Summer 17 Olympics. 18 to Greg Weinman, counsel to the CCAC who will tally 19 them and present the results. 20 Hearing none. Seeing Then committee will now score the candidate Please provide your complete score sheets MS. WARREN: 21 Warren. 22 Weinman on his email. And this is Jennifer For those remote please send them to Greg Are we going into a five-minute www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 35 1 recess, sir? 2 3 DR. BROWN: please? Can we take five minutes, Recess for five minutes. 4 (Off the record.) 5 MS. WARREN: 6 DR. BROWN: 7 We are back. I now recognize Greg Weinman to present the scoring results. 8 9 Back to you, Dr. Brown. MR. WEINMAN: Good morning. With nine members scoring, that means the highest possible score 10 is 27. 11 received 23 points making it tied for a high scoring 12 design. 13 Number three received three. 14 seven. 15 Design number six received 13. 16 received seven points. 17 two. 18 10 received one. 19 Design 13 received 17. 20 23. 21 28 Design 14 with the -- 22 So out of possible 27, design number one Design number two received three points. Number four received Design number five received four points. Design number seven Design number eight received Design number nine received five. Design number Design number 11 received one. And Design 14 also received So the two high scoring designs are LA 01 and LA MR. MORAN: I'm good with that. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 36 1 MR. WEINMAN: So with that, you may 2 recommend you entertain a motion to start? 3 DR. BROWN: Obvious reason. Mike? 4 MR. MORAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. Mike 5 Moran. I move that we accept these two designs as the 6 obverse and reverse first motion. 7 that we treat 01 as the obverse and 14 as the reverse. 8 9 DR. BROWN: Is there second on the motion? 10 11 Second motion is DR. VAN ALFEN: Peter Van Alfen, second. 12 MR. HOARD: And that's on the first 14 DR. BROWN: Can you repeat the motion? 15 MR. MORAN: No. 13 motion or -- First motion is to 16 accept the two designs chosen as number 1 and number 17 14. That's the first motion. 18 19 DR. BROWN: 22 Is there a second on that motion? 20 21 Thank you. DR. VAN ALFEN: Peter Van Alfen, second. MR. MORAN: And the second motion is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 37 1 that we treat number 1 as the obverse. 2 the reverse. DR. BROWN: Okay. 3 DR. VAN ALFEN: 4 DR. BROWN: 5 the first motion. GROUP: 7 DR. BROWN: abstentions? 9 10 A second. Oh, let's take Any opposed? Any First motion carries. Let's go to the second. motion. All those in favor, aye. GROUP: 12 MR. HOARD: Aye. Are we able to speak on the motion first to discuss the motion? 14 15 Second. Aye. 11 13 My apologies. All those in favor, aye. 6 8 Number 14 is DR. BROWN: You certainly may. Please. MR. HOARD: I would -- so this is Thank you. 16 17 Kellen Hoard. I would support actually having 14, as 18 I mentioned earlier, as the obverse rather than the 19 reverse. 20 short. 21 is it draws you into the medal with a certain 22 perspective, is that it's a piece that, you know, kind As I said previously, you know, I'll keep it I think the 14 what it does really effectively www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 38 1 of with the traditional CCAC lens that you want to 2 pick up off the table or that if you're handing it 3 over to, you know, from mayor to mayor, it's something 4 that when you see it firsthand, it feels like there's 5 that transition, like there's that continuity. 6 feels like it's a piece that's compelling, that shows 7 up really nicely on the three-inch medal, and that 8 allows you to kind of dive into all the detail that it 9 has on that obverse. 10 It And then you turn to the reverse 11 because you're intrigued by the obverse and you're 12 able to see further imagery. 13 cities more explicitly laid out. 14 transition from more of a classical style to more of a 15 modern style. 16 momentum of the piece, is that you're actually turning 17 the coin to experience a different design elements and 18 going from kind of almost a detailed, heavy piece to a 19 more simple piece. 20 that it's worth having 14 as the obverse, because, 21 again, it really makes you feel like you're actually 22 immersed in the medal, and that's exactly what we want You're able to see the You're able to see a And it feels like this is kind of the For that reason, I really think www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 39 1 to achieve through our obverse medallions. 2 3 DR. BROWN: Thank you. Thank you so much. Any further comments on the motion? 4 MR. TUCKER: This is Dennis Tucker. 5 Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have to disagree with that. 6 I actually find number one to be the most compelling 7 and visually arresting design of the two. 8 approached this almost the way we would look at a 9 Congressional Gold Medal, where the obverse is I 10 typically more active. 11 verb of the medal, and then the reverse is allowed to 12 be more static, the noun, if you will. 13 that if we call it O-01 and R-14 accomplishes that. 14 do think that 1 is something that would attract your 15 eye held at arm's length. 16 it is intriguing. 17 design, but you turn it over and can spend some time 18 with that as well on the reverse. 19 motion. 20 We think of that as being the And I think It's innovative, it's bold, And 14 is also a very attractive So I like Mike's Thank you, Mr. Chair. DR. BROWN: I Thank you. Hearing none. Any further 21 comments on the motion? 22 Now we're speaking to the motion that Michael said. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Seeing none. Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 40 1 All those in favor, aye. 2 GROUP: 3 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 4 Aye. That is 1 is O-01, R- 14. 5 DR. BROWN: That's correct. 6 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 7 DR. BROWN: 8 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 9 DR. BROWN: All right. Any opposed? Nay. Any abstentions? The 10 motion carries. 11 None. 12 to take this time to thank our stakeholders because 13 this has certainly been an interesting and we know 14 this will be an enjoyable experience that we'll get to 15 observe when the handover takes place. 16 much, Peter and Taylor, for attending. 17 Are there any other further motions? And if all discussion has concluded, I'd like Thank you so We will now review the reverse 18 candidate designs for the 2025 American Innovation $1 19 coin program honoring innovation in Arkansas. 20 Stafford, Chief of the Mints Office of Design 21 Management, will introduce the program and present the 22 candidate designs. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 April Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 41 1 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. First, some 2 background on this program. It is Public Law 115-197, 3 the American Innovation Dollar Coin Act that requires 4 the Secretary of the Treasury to mint and issue dollar 5 coins with the reverse design honoring innovation or 6 innovators from each of the 50 states, the 7 territories, and the District of Columbia. 8 accordance with the act, the Mint worked with the 9 governors of each state to be honored in 2025 to In 10 develop design concepts for the coins. These concepts 11 have been approved by the Secretary of the Treasury. 12 The first two states to be recognized in 2025, 13 Arkansas and Michigan, are presented here. 14 remaining two, Florida and Texas, will be presented in 15 early 2024. 16 propose between one to three design concepts and 17 artists created designs based on the concepts proposed 18 and subsequently approved by the Secretary. 19 collaborated with liaisons and experts from each state 20 in developing the following candidate design. 21 obverse design for this program will remain the same 22 as in previous years and will contain a unique gear The As always, the governors were asked to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 The Mint The Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 42 1 shaped privy mark to distinguish this year's coins. 2 So we have one concept from Arkansas, and that is Raye 3 Montague. 4 innovator. 5 in Little Rock, Arkansas, was an American naval 6 engineer and innovator of computer aided design of 7 naval ships. 8 generated rough draft of a naval ship for the United 9 States Navy. Some background on this incredible Raye Montague, born on January 24th, 1935, She's credited with the first computer After graduating high school in 1952, 10 she longed to major in engineering, but racism and 11 misogyny prevented her from pursuing a degree in the 12 field. 13 Mechanical and Normal College, now The University Of 14 Arkansas at Pine Bluff historically Black University 15 with a degree in business. 16 to the Washington, DC area and was hired by the United 17 States Navy as a clerk typist. 18 the engineering station, she would observe the 19 engineers and fill in when they were out. 20 to rise in the ranks drove her to take computer 21 classes at night while she continued to learn on the 22 job. In 1956, she graduated from the Arkansas That same year, she moved With her desk next to Her desire In 1971, she developed the first automated www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 43 1 system for selecting and printing ship specifications 2 and became the first person ever to design a United 3 States Navy ship using a computer. 4 take two years to create a design of a ship on paper. 5 Nevertheless, due to the urgency of her task, which 6 came directly from President Nixon during the height 7 of the Vietnam War, she was given only one month to 8 design the first draft for the Oliver Hazard Perry 9 class-frigate. It would typically She finished the design in under 19 10 hours. In 1972, the navy awarded Montague its 11 meritorious civilian service award for her 12 groundbreaking work. 13 Arkansas Black Hall of Fame in 2013 and the Arkansas 14 Women's Hall of Fame in 2018. 15 inscriptions on these designs are United States of 16 America and Arkansas. 17 with us today as Representatives, David Montague, son 18 of Raye Montague. 19 Chancellor for Academic Affairs and professor of 20 Criminal Justice and Criminology at the University of 21 Arkansas at Little Rock. 22 Wintory, who is at the Arkansas Heritage Museum, and She was inducted into the The required We are very pleased to have He's also the Associate Vice We also worked with Blake www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 44 1 I'd like to ask David Montague to say a few words to 2 the committee, if you wouldn't mind. 3 4 MR. MONTAGUE: working. Hopefully my mic is Can you hear me okay? 5 MS. STAFFORD: Yes. 6 MR. MONTAGUE: Great. Thank you. First of all, 7 thank you so much for that wonderful introduction. 8 And to the group assembled here as the son of Raye 9 Montague, someone who grew up observing her and her 10 career and then later what she did try to inspire 11 others based on her experiences of overcoming 12 obstacles. 13 means to me and how much it would mean to so many 14 others in our state and beyond to have her selected 15 for being honored on the dollar coin. 16 want to say, in addition to the accolades that were 17 mentioned about her career, I think what a lot of 18 people need to understand about her is that she 19 overcoming those obstacles was never a bitter person. 20 She used them to try to open doors for others along 21 the way during her career that lasted 33-and-a-half 22 years in the Navy and did become a professional I cannot tell you how much this honor www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I briefly just Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 45 1 engineer as well as a registered professional engineer 2 in Canada. 3 do the same type of inspiration of others in her 4 retirement. 5 represents not only her commitment to our country, 6 because she certainly was very proud to protect our 7 sailors and Marines and building ships, but certainly 8 goes a long way to continuing her legacy and her dream 9 to inspire others far beyond her passing, which 10 And she used those opportunities to also So I think that this coin certainly happened in 2018. 11 Thank you again. MS. STAFFORD: Thank you so much. And 12 just for everyone's awareness, when we move through 13 the portfolio of candidate designs, we will just 14 simply introduce them by number. 15 everyone the committee has received in advance the 16 design descriptions for each of the designs, and we'll 17 be sure to make those available and they'll be entered 18 into record. 19 All right. I want to assure So we will move on to the 20 candidate design. We have first design one. 21 design is the secondary preference of the family, with 22 consideration or suggestion that should this be www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 This Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 46 1 recommended to the secretary that the clothes be 2 updated to be more reminiscent of what her family 3 remembers her wearing most often, that would be office 4 attire. 5 Design two, this is the first 6 preference of the family. It is also the 7 recommendation of the Commission of Fine Arts. 8 should note that this program has a requirement to 9 avoid head and shoulder portraits. I We realized late 10 in the development process that this design would need 11 to be amended in some way to either include a hand or 12 include more torso. 13 recommendation of the CFA. 14 requirement with them, and they recommended that this 15 be adjusted so that Raye Montague is pulled out and 16 you see more of her torso. 17 ready -- our chief engraver is ready to speak to that 18 should you want information about a vision for how 19 this might be adjusted. 20 21 22 That actually was part of the We shared that same And we, of course, are Designs three and three A and design four, that concludes the candidate designs, Chairman. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 47 1 MR. WEINMAN: Real quickly, Dr. Brown, 2 if I could. 3 colleague, Liz Young, who is the project counselor for 4 the America Innovation Service. 5 (inaudible) 6 For the record, I wanted to introduce my DR. BROWN: She's in the Outstanding. To the 7 committee, are there any technical legal questions 8 that you have about this program or this design? 9 MR. HOARD: Sorry. This is Kellen 10 Hoard. For the Head and Shoulders requirements, do 11 all the other designs decide to meet that requirement 12 or they're not considered head and shoulders? 13 MS. STAFFORD: 14 MR. HOARD: 15 MR. TUCKER: They do. Okay. Thank you. Maybe this would be -- 16 this is Dennis Tucker. 17 point to comment on that potential redesign of number 18 two. 19 Maybe we could ask Joe at this MR. SCARINCI: Point of order, why 20 don't we just wait and see if there's any passion for 21 the Lilliputian design number two? 22 DR. BROWN: I think in light of the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 48 1 fact that it's favored by the fact the liaison as well 2 as the CFA, it may make sense to get that now. 3 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 4 DR. BROWN: 5 MS. WARREN: 6 I do appreciate your -And, Dr. Brown, after that, Mr. Saunders has his hand up. 7 8 Okay. DR. BROWN: John, do you have a question about legal or architectural issues? 9 MR. SAUNDERS: Yeah. On three, there's 10 a dial at the top with numbers 7820 and 19 there. 11 What does that mean? 12 MS. STAFFORD: That is a reference by 13 the artist to her groundbreaking work in creating the 14 first draft in under 19 hours. 15 MR. SAUNDERS: 16 DR. BROWN: 17 Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Joe, could you speak to the issue about the body, the torso? 18 MR. MENNA: Yes, Mr. Chairman. This is 19 Joseph Menna. Mr. Montague, I think the way the 20 requirement could be honored would be by the 21 foreground. 22 the Olympic being literal, zooming in or zooming out Not to contradict myself as I spoke about www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 49 1 here compositionally. If the ship and kind of digital 2 plane that it is resting on, representing both water 3 and CAD design were reduced in scale you could also 4 pull Ms. Montague's portrait out a little bit, make 5 her a little bit smaller. 6 a way that's balanced, I believe the requirements for 7 not having a double headed coin could be met without 8 the addition of a hand or something that could perhaps 9 make the boat look like a toy or something less noble By doing both in tandem in 10 as this composition presents it. 11 very easily affected. 12 DR. BROWN: I think it could be Any other comments or 13 questions on committee regarding technical or legal 14 issues? 15 consideration of this program. 16 with offering some comments myself. 17 see the value in the preferences by Dr. Montague as 18 well as the CFA, I sort of like smiling faces, as the 19 (inaudible) has been recognized from my history. 20 I like both of these designs and for a number of 21 reasons. 22 us to salute the underreported accomplishments of Hearing none. Then let us begin our And I'd like to begin As much as I do But One, this presents another opportunity for www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 50 1 women. Two, that its production in 2025 will be a 2 wonderful complement to the five women to be 3 celebrated in the last year of the American Women's 4 Quarter Program. 5 more significant. 6 Internet searching, Dr. Montague, I saw a picture of 7 your mother holding you around the time that she 8 accomplished this major feat. 9 phenomenal. Three, this accomplishment is even I had the opportunity to do some So I found that And this is a story before us in the 10 month in which we are celebrating veterans. 11 reason is a personal one. 12 in the year I was deployed in Vietnam, so I'm overly 13 thankful for the fact of what she has done. 14 that reason, I do favor your preference as well as 15 there are for one. 16 The last Her accomplishment occurred So for We move to Dr. Fuller. DR. FULLER: Thank you -- excuse me -- 17 Thank you, Dr. Brown. I want to highlight that this 18 is one of the great privileges of serving as a member 19 of the CCAC is that we always have an opportunity 20 about, you know, learning about great Americans that 21 most people probably have not heard about. 22 educates us, and it always puts a smile on my face www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It always Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 51 1 when I learn about, again, great Americans that have 2 made great contributions to this country. 3 that said, I do like the family's preference of 02, 4 but I also like 01 as well. 5 to say something very briefly about 01. 6 image shows her as very warm, very approachable, and 7 it also highlights her, you know, her contribution to 8 naval history. 9 consideration, but again, I will go with the family's 10 preference. And with And if I may, I just want Again, this So I will give this some due Thank you. 11 DR. BROWN: Thank you. 12 DR. VAN ALFEN: Peter? Thank you, Dr. Brown. 13 This is Peter Van Alfen. I'm very happy to support 14 the family's first preference for number two, along 15 with the recommendations suggested by Joe Menna and 16 the CFA. 17 design, and thank you very much. I think that this is quite attractive 18 DR. BROWN: Art? 19 MR. BERNSTEIN: This is Arthur 20 Bernstein. I also support the family's preferences. 21 I think 01 is my second place and 02 is my first 22 place. I particularly like the grid pattern over the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 52 1 C relating to the computer assisted design. I thought 2 that was very effective. 3 or suggestion. 4 differentiate the lettering. 5 of lettering, and Raye Montague's name is in a 6 different style. 7 leaning, it's the same style of lettering. 8 wondered if there should be -- I forget, Joe, what you 9 call that little dot. I had one technical comment I noticed all the other designs use -Arkansas is in one style In design two, where many of us are 10 MR. MENNA: 11 MR. BERNSTEIN: And I just Delimiter. Delimiter. Whether 12 there should be some sort of delimiter between 13 Arkansas and Raye. 14 looks like it's one name. 15 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 16 MR. MORAN: This is Mike Moran. It just sounds like -- to me it Thank you. Mike? I have 17 a question first for Mr. Montague. Mr. Montague, we 18 have two really different images of your mother here. 19 One when she's obviously older, and another which 20 looks to be more current with when she actually did 21 the design order. 22 two in terms of the quality of the design. My preference would be for number www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 But are Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 53 1 you comfortable with that image of your mother that's 2 shown in number two as opposed to number one? 3 MR. MONTAGUE: Can you hear me? Yes. 4 So the question is, am I comfortable with the image of 5 my mother in AR 02 -- 6 MR. MORAN: Yes. 7 MR. MONTAGUE: -- more so -- yes, I am. 8 And it's -- as I told Russ, who's actually fantastic 9 to work with during this process, the image in number 10 two reminds me more of her. I mean, it really looks 11 like her in real life to me. 12 of her looking over the ship with that image. 13 reminds me of when she and I would do coin collecting 14 when I was a child. 15 lot of memories. 16 - I'm sorry -- college students. 17 me as well. 18 image in number AR 02 more. And I like the fact that And it So it really does bring back a I also showed that one to my child And she agreed with So, yes, the answer is that I do like the 19 DR. BROWN: Thank you, Dr. Montague. 20 MR. MONTAGUE: 21 DR. BROWN: Kellen? 22 MR. HOARD: Thank you. You're welcome. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I've been a Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 54 1 little bit persuaded here. At first, I was more in 2 favor of image one. 3 it when they're smiling. 4 at. 5 they put the text alongside or how they oriented the 6 text there. 7 things interestingly and clearly and explicitly. 8 you all have gotten me, you know, pretty much tied 9 also with design two there. I'm like you, Dr. Brown, I like I think that's nice to look I think it's an interesting design. I like how I thought they communicated a bunch of But And design two is fine 10 for me as well, pending, you know, maybe a shift in 11 the perspective on the head and shoulders. 12 Specifically, one of my concerns there, and it sounds 13 like that might address it, is she a little bit to me 14 looks like a giant looking over the horizon and kind 15 of coming up from the globe to come look at this 16 design, and it was a little disconcerting for me. 17 if we're able to adjust the head and shoulders a 18 little bit, I think that'd be fine. 19 fine with one or two. 20 21 22 DR. BROWN: So, yeah, I'm Thank you so much. Turn to Donald? MR. SCARINCI: But Listen, I really like www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 55 1 Jonathan Swift, and I really enjoyed the series of 2 little people. 3 was the series in the 60s and 70s. 4 this is just -- she looks like she's about to eat the 5 ship, right? 6 menacing than -- she's more of a menacing figure to 7 the people on the poor ship. 8 they're not depicted. 9 don't really like any of these designs with portraits I think it was the Land of the Giants And, you know, I mean, you know, and she's more And, you know, at least But this is just a loss -- I 10 for this particular series. I think this might be a 11 great quarter, you know, in the Women's Quarter 12 series. 13 this is just a huge lost opportunity to have a 14 creative design using computer, you know, using a 15 computer image of a ship. 16 there's so many other things that could have been done 17 here and to make this a great coin instead, this is ho 18 hum, and I'm sure I have great confidence in the 19 engraver's office, they will fix this so it doesn't 20 look like a lilliputian situation, you know, but I 21 think all these designs are horrible. 22 for any of them. But as far as an innovation dollar, you know, You know, I just think I'm not voting And I hope we don't have to listen www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 56 1 to portraits and portraits and portraits on this 2 series as well. 3 but, you know, this really isn't the place for it. 4 does a disservice, not a service, and I'm opposed to 5 it, and I'm voting zero. 6 break. 7 I know everybody wants a portrait, DR. BROWN: And now I'll just take my Thank you so much. As the 8 public will, in fact, appreciate that the committee 9 has a sense of humor from time to time. 10 It DR. CAPOZZOLA: Chris? I'm happy to support 11 number two for all the same reasons that have been 12 offered in the past. 13 appreciate that although she is not depicted there at 14 the age when she did this work, we're recognizing a 15 lifetime of innovation and contribution to Arkansas 16 and not just one 19-hour segment of it. 17 leave it at that. 18 comment to our previous comments. 19 encourage in the series going forward, thinking as 20 creatively as possible about innovation (inaudible) 21 The artists will be well qualified to tackle that, and 22 I have no doubt that (inaudible) I do think, you know, I So I will Although I suppose I'll add a brief But I also do would www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 57 1 DR. BROWN: Joe? 2 MR. MENNA: I would just say oftentimes 3 in this program in particular, as we've discussed in 4 the past, the Innovators are as much in many cases, 5 the Innovators accomplishments are as much of an 6 innovation, given the unique challenges that they 7 face, to do these things at these times. 8 that's why sometimes the artists present these images 9 just for consideration. 10 DR. BROWN: 11 MR. TUCKER: So I think Dennis? Thank you, Dr. Brown. 12 This is Dennis Tucker. And thank you, Joe, for that 13 comment and my colleagues for this conversation. 14 think it's touched on some important themes and 15 questions about this program, and we've talked about 16 some of these before, the ideas of representation, 17 especially for minority innovators, and the importance 18 of being seen, and in our case, being seen on American 19 coins. 20 portfolio, I was actually drawn to R-04 because this 21 is one that shows Mrs. Montague in action and in the 22 act of creation. I think that's important. I For this particular So I thought that this was a strong www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 58 1 design and appealing for those reasons. For R-02, 2 Mike, thank you for bringing up the question of the 3 age she's depicted at. 4 comments. 5 insight on that. 6 she would have been when she was doing this work on 7 the design of this frigate, but it makes sense that 8 this also represents a lifetime of achievement. 9 wonder to David Montague if you could speak a moment And Chris, thank you for your And to David Montague, thank you for your She does not look like the age that So I 10 about your preference of R-02 over R-04 and if R-04 11 was ever in the running and your thoughts on that 12 particular design? 13 MR. MONTAGUE: Yes, so when we -- and I 14 do want to say, I do appreciate all the designs and 15 the work that was put into them. 16 different things that I like about all of them. 17 Obviously, AR 02, and the first one, AR 01 were my 18 favorites. 19 well, in the sense that it's the same type of 20 direction you were talking about in terms of some of 21 the background. 22 showing in the background of that image, that is the And I do see I did like AR 04, and my family did as Now, the tractor feed paper that's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 59 1 type of paper that was used in printers during that 2 time. 3 there, I'm glad it didn't show a huge monitor, which 4 is, but back then, the computers were integrated into 5 huge machines. 6 at that time. 7 think, looks really good. 8 one really struck me as not even resembling her to me. 9 And that was kind of the main issue that I had with You know, the older fashioned keyboard just They weren't separate standalone items The background material itself, I The image of her in that 10 it, is the fact that it didn't even look like her, you 11 know, and so, that's not an insult to the artist in 12 any way. 13 looked at that, it looks more like my Aunt Gladys, 14 which is a relative of mine in that sense. 15 I used to call Aunt Gladys here in Arkansas. 16 very inspirational and did inspire my mother. 17 a very strong woman. 18 background. 19 what threw me off of her. It's just compared to the others. When I You know, She was She was But honestly, I like the But to be succinct, the image itself is 20 MR. TUCKER: 21 on that, then. 22 Dr. Montague? Well, if I could follow up And by the way, is it Mr. Montague or www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 60 1 2 MR. MONTAGUE: I go by David. It's technically Dr. Montague, but I answer to whatever. 3 MR. TUCKER: Thank you. I prefer the 4 theme of four, the act of creation. I appreciate 5 number two, where she's observing her creation. 6 That's an important thought. 7 for me, it's more compelling to see her in the act of 8 creation, the act of engineering and innovation. 9 for me, the composition of four is more compelling. But there's something So 10 If the portrait of her in four could be improved upon, 11 would that be -- would you prefer that over two? 12 MR. MONTAGUE: I'd say I'd be fine 13 either way. To be honest with you, my preference was 14 ones that were presented to me and to my family. 15 Number 02 really looks the most like her. 16 something special about the design of the frigate is 17 being so clear in 02, you know, the Oliver Hazard 18 Perry. 19 the Support Facility in Virginia and to the Navy Yard, 20 and I've got to meet some of the people who served on 21 the Oliver Hazard Perry. 22 you know, in the model basin in Carderock, Maryland, And there's And I've been to know the Dahlgren, you know, And then having been a kid, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 61 1 and running around and seeing all those things, when I 2 saw the design of the frigate in 02, it most clearly 3 represented something very large and grand and scale. 4 And I like the fact that even though, and I agree with 5 your comments in number four, the R-04, that there's a 6 lot of technical detail in there, when I thought about 7 02, to go back to that for a hot second, please. 8 grandness of the scale of the frigate, especially the 9 fact that it's resting on the ocean that is designed The 10 from a computer system, and then my mother overlooking 11 that process is kind of what struck me immediately. 12 And it was something that one of the other 13 participants here said today that I hadn't really 14 thought about, is looking back at a lifetime of work. 15 And that's something that it wasn't in the front of my 16 mind at the time, but all those factors together, 17 that's the reason why 02 really struck me more. 18 like the R-04. 19 Showing her in action is really nice. 20 something, and I don't know what it would look like if 21 they were able to put that image in 02 on 04, R-04. 22 But 02 just hits me as it looks like what I recall and I do From a technical standpoint, I agree. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 This is Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 62 1 remember from the love of my being a coin collector 2 that my -- I mentioned aunt Gladys, her husband, Uncle 3 Jone -- my great uncle. 4 uncles, only child of (inaudible) 5 mother and I would do as coin collecting in Maryland 6 growing up while she was in the Navy. 7 why it brings back so many positive memories. 8 it's something that I think people would find 9 interesting when they start searching, well, who is I didn't have any aunts or And then later, my And so that's And 10 this Arkansas Raye Montague person? And to me, the 11 graphic design and the grandest, that's what stood 12 out. 13 itself with the design of the sea that really struck 14 me the most. 15 compelling as well. 16 does not fit for me. So it's the image and the grandness of the ship But number 04 reverse is quite Just the image of her just really 17 DR. BROWN: 18 MR. TUCKER: 19 MR. MONTAGUE: 20 MR. TUCKER: 21 appreciate that. 22 steers me more towards two. Thank you so much. Thank you, Dr. Montague. You're welcome. Wonderful insight. And that helps me. I think that Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Thank you, Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 63 1 Dr. Brown. 2 DR. BROWN: Thank you. 3 MR. MONTAGUE: 4 DR. FULLER: Harcourt? You're very welcome. Thank you, Dr. Brown. 5 This is Dr. Harcourt Fuller. I guess what I'm about 6 to say is probably pointless because I was going to 7 opine on what Dennis said. 8 the passion in your voice with respect to 02 and 9 that's meaningful to me because it's meaningful to But, Dr. Montague, I hear 10 you. So, again, I will respect your decision on that. 11 But in any case, I did want to go back to 04, if I 12 may. 13 design, again, this is very clear. I see her 14 designing a ship using a computer. And to me, that is 15 so inspirational to a lot of people to see her design 16 a naval ship for this time period. 17 Montague, I understand what you're saying about the 18 portrait of her. 19 family's choice of 02, but these are all great 20 designs. 21 wonderful woman once this, you know, this coin is 22 minted. And I agree with Dennis. When I look at this But again, Dr. And so, again, I will respect the I think people will learn about this Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 64 1 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 2 MR. MONTAGUE: 3 DR. BROWN: 4 MR. SAUNDERS: Thank you. John? First of all, I'd like 5 to echo somebody else's comment that being part of 6 this committee lets us learn about a lot of 7 interesting people and great people that we might not 8 have learned about otherwise and very glad to learn 9 about Raye Montague. In terms of designs, I agree 10 with Dennis. I like number four because it shows what 11 she did. 12 happened there. 13 actually designing ship. 14 think, a little bit better, but maybe artistically 15 it's not quite as good. 16 anyway. 17 back to the days when I first learned to program a 18 computer that had a punch card on it. 19 of the great fears is dropping a stack of punch cards 20 when they went to paper tape with punch tapes. 21 years later, it was so much better because you could 22 never drop your cards and get them out of order. I mean, number two, it's not clear what Number four shows me that she's So it tells the story, I People will look up the story I also like design number one. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 This goes Remember, one A few So I Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 65 1 like the design. I like the fact it has a punch card 2 that shows how difficult things were to do on a 3 computer back then. 4 here. 5 to download Teams. 6 to do it. 7 the cloud button. 8 download on other programs. 9 back in the 60s, could write code, I can't use a Partly apologize for being late My people had me set up on Zoom. I was trying Your people walked me through how The one thing I didn't know was you push That's a download. Usually it says And so even though I -- 10 computer today. 11 the story, I like one and four best. 12 artistic design of two. 13 something else. 14 kind of just a straight face would be nicer. 15 guess I'm in a position. 16 too. 17 do like the punch card on there, I mean, that's going 18 back to the days that shows, besides the other things, 19 what somebody designing something on a computer had to 20 overcome. 21 22 So I apologize for my latency. So I do like the I kind of agree with Maybe her smiling in it as opposed to But I I like all three of those Kind of different reasons for each one. But I So thank you. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Let me just also share with the public that we've had these www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 66 1 conversations about innovator versus innovation, and 2 that that's something for which we've come to 3 appreciate. 4 we are here actually to actually fulfill what a state 5 says, in fact, represents their innovation for that 6 state. 7 committee and as well as with the public, my 90-year- 8 old mother, when I show her coins, she sees them and 9 she says to me, what does this mean? It's been guided by the legislation that And the other thing I'd like to share with the And I asked her, 10 what do you mean? 11 that's something that means something to her as 12 opposed to something that doesn't have a portrait. 13 Look at it from another way, from a child. 14 be what you can't see. 15 time that we clearly identify the portrait associated 16 with the person who's made this phenomenal innovation. 17 Thank you so much for your courtesy. 18 If she sees a face, then she says You can't So it makes sense from time to We're going to move right along now to 19 actually -- ask Mike or Joe if you have any additional 20 comments you'd like to open. 21 MR. COSTELLO: 22 I have no additional comments. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 67 1 MR. MENNA: I have none, sir. 2 DR. BROWN: The committee will now 3 score the reverse candidate designs for the 2025 4 American Innovation $1 coin honoring innovation in 5 Arkansas. 6 score sheets. 7 to Greg Weinman, who will tally the scores and present 8 them back to us once he gets through with them. 9 consider a five-minute break. Colleagues, each of you have received the When you are done, please provide them Five-minute break. 10 (Off the record.) 11 DR. BROWN: 12 Let's We are back and recognize Greg Weinman. 13 MR. WEINMAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 14 With 10 members scoring, that means the potential 15 score is 30. 16 number one received 16 points out of 30. 17 number two received 24 points out of 30, making it the 18 high scoring design. 19 points. 20 and design number four received 13 points. 21 again, design two is the clear favorite with 24 of the 22 possible 30 points. So these scores are out of 30. Design Design Design number three received two Design number three A received four points, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So once Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 68 1 DR. BROWN: Okay. Is there a motion? 2 MR. HOARD: This is Kellen Hoard. I 3 move that we adopt design two with the modifications 4 that we discussed in terms of the head and shoulders 5 to ensure that it meets all guidelines. 6 7 DR. VAN ALFEN: second. 8 9 DR. BROWN: DR. CAPOZZOLA: 11 Capozzola. 12 earlier. 13 Montague. 14 This is Chris I would endorse what Art Bernstein said There's a delimiter between Arkansas and DR. BROWN: It's a friendly amendment to the motion; do you accept that? 16 MR. HOARD: 17 MS. WARREN: 18 Any discussion on the motion? 10 15 Peter Van Alfen, Yeah. John Saunders has his hand up. 19 DR. BROWN: John? 20 MR. SAUNDERS: I was just agreeing to 21 make the same comment and I think there should be 22 something between the two of them. And I think we www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 69 1 should consider if we have a portrait with a smile to 2 it, we make -- consider a smile. 3 it the way it is too. 4 DR. BROWN: But I'm happy with Any questions about that? 5 Any further comments about the motion? Hearing none, 6 all those in favor, signify by saying, aye. 7 GROUP: Aye. 8 MR. SCARINCI: 9 MR. MORAN: Just because. 10 DR. BROWN: All those opposed, please I abstain, Mr. Chairman. 11 signify it by saying, nay. 12 abstention. 13 motions on this program? 14 all discussion on this program has concluded, I would 15 again like to thank and take a moment to thank Dr. 16 Montague for what you have provided to us. 17 been invaluable. 18 Thank you. And we have one Motion carries. Hearing none. Any further See none. As It has And for the record, I also like to note 19 that this is one of less than 20 circulated or 20 commemorative coins that have recognized a scientist 21 or scientific accomplishment since the establishment 22 of the 1792 mint. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 70 1 MR. MONTAGUE: Thank you. Thank you 2 for allowing me to participate in this process. 3 I'm just overwhelmed right now. 4 5 DR. BROWN: MR. MONTAGUE: Thank you. You all too. Bye bye. 8 9 Have a great remainder of the day. 6 7 Thank you so much. And DR. BROWN: We will now begin consideration of the candidate designs for the Flowing 10 Hair Gold Coin and Silver Medal. 11 Chief of the Mint's Office of Design Management, will 12 introduce the program and present the candidate 13 designs. 14 MS. STAFFORD: April Stafford, Thank you. The Flowing 15 Hair Dollar designed by then chief engraver Robert 16 Scott, was the first dollar coin struck by the United 17 States federal government with the first minting on 18 October 15, 1794. 19 ounce 24 karat gold coin and 1 ounce silver medal to 20 mark the 130th anniversary of this first mintage. 21 Both the coin and medal will feature the 1794 Flowing 22 Hair $1 obverse and reverse design. In 2024, the Mint will offer a 1 To honor the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 71 1 original, the mint will follow the same minimal 2 inscriptions on the next 1794 Flowing Hair Dollar coin 3 on both the gold coin and silver medal. 4 edge inscribed nomination will also be included on the 5 gold coin. 6 Commission of Fine Arts on October 19. 7 presented faithfully recreated the original 1794 8 coins. 9 also present for comparison these designs with slight The original The mint presented these designs to the The renders After review, the CFA requested the mint to 10 revisions to address alignment concerns on the obverse 11 and reverse. 12 today includes both the original renders that are 13 faithful to the 1794 coins and revised renders per the 14 CFA's request. 15 separate from the American Liberty Biennial Program. 16 So starting with the obverse, this image of the 17 proposed 2024 obverse -- The updated portfolio you'll consider Note that this offering would be 18 MS. WARREN: 19 MS. STAFFORD: We're not sharing. There we go. This image 20 of the proposed 2024 Flowing Hair Dollar, 24 karat 21 gold coin and silver medal obverse presents the 22 original 1794 silver dollar with an updated 2024 date www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 72 1 and retains the Liberty inscription. The portrait of 2 Liberty faces right and is surrounded by 15 stars, 3 representing the 15 states that had ratified the 4 Constitution by 1794. 5 the silver medal, the gold coin will incuse the 6 denomination on the edge of the coin. 7 As with the 1794 silver dollar that was originally 8 created, the gold coin in 2024 will incuse the 9 denomination on the edge of the coin as follows, 100 As with the 1794 silver dollar, I apologize. 10 cents, $1 or unit with decorations separating each 11 word. 12 version slightly shifts the 2024 inscription to the 13 right to center it between the stars at the bottom of 14 the design. 15 forth easily between the original and the revised. 16 Okay. 17 Moving on to the revised version. This revised So I don't know if we can go back and Moving on to the reverse. This image 18 presents the proposed reverse design for both the 19 silver medal and gold coin versions. 20 original, a laurel wreath surrounds an eagle with 21 spread wings in the center. 22 the American heraldic eagle, the design also retains As in the 1794 An early predecessor of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 73 1 the inscription United States of America. 2 version slightly shifts the inscription United States 3 of America toward the border to create a bit more 4 space between the inscription and the wreath. 5 could just quickly toggle between the very slight 6 change and the revised. 7 the CFA reviewed these week before last at their 8 November meeting, their recommendation was for the 9 revised versions to move forward. 10 The revised We And I will just note, when That concludes the candidate designs. 11 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. MR. MORAN: I have a question for 15 DR. BROWN: Please. 16 MR. MORAN: This is Mike Moran. 12 there any -- 13 14 Are April. April, 17 does this program have legs? 18 just the 1794 design rendition? 19 terms of future issues that will follow this one. 20 MS. STAFFORD: Is there more to it than More contemplated in So I believe that was 21 part of the CCAC's recommendation; is that correct? 22 That was read and shared in the October version, so www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 74 1 that has been shared internally. 2 presently to this particular issue. 3 conversations are going to be taking place, though, 4 about that recommendation. 5 DR. BROWN: I can only speak I do know that Thank you. Are there any 6 other technical or legal questions from the committee 7 about this program? 8 DR. FULLER: 9 DR. BROWN: 10 Mr. Chairman? Yes, sir. DR. FULLER: This is Dr. Fuller. 11 April, I also noticed that -- and I forget which is 12 which, but I think the original version was lighter or 13 darker in shade because when you switched between 14 both, one was lighter, and one was darker; is that a 15 design feature or not? 16 17 18 MS. STAFFORD: Not a design feature. I'll ask Joe to comment on that. MR. MENNA: Yeah. Dr. Fuller, just 19 being done in different time periods, not expecting to 20 go to a second version. 21 environment was just a little different. 22 light and shade. The digital rendering It's just They're the exact same basins, exact www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 75 1 same relief. It's really just a function of the 2 lighting and the render. 3 outside of the aging -- 4 DR. FULLER: 5 MR. MENNA: 6 Thank you. -- of the inscriptions. Yes, sir. 7 8 There's no difference MS. WARREN: Dr. Brown, John has his hand up. 9 DR. BROWN: John? 10 MS. WARREN: You're muted, sir. 11 MR. SAUNDERS: I have a quick question. 12 Looking at the original versus revised, I feel like 13 I'm a bus dollar variety collector trying to find the 14 differences. 15 further away from the date, is there any other 16 difference between the revised and the original? On the obverse, besides moving the stars 17 MS. STAFFORD: No. 18 MR. SAUNDERS: Okay. 19 DR. BROWN: 20 DR. CAPOZZOLA: Thank you. Thank you so much. Chris? Just a question. What 21 is the diameter of this that's contemplated and how 22 does that relate to the original 1794 dimensions? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 76 1 2 MS. STAFFORD: So the diameter -- Mike, MR. COSTELLO: This is Mike Costello. if you could -- 3 4 The diameter for the silver will be 1.6 inches. Off 5 the top of my head, I do not know the original. It's 6 definitely smaller. 7 8 MS. STAFFORD: Do you know the gold MR. COSTELLO: And the gold will be the coin? 9 10 1.1, I believe, 1.1. 11 match. 12 13 (inaudible) DR. CAPOZZOLA: No intention to That'd be 34 millimeters -- 14 MR. COSTELLO: 15 MR. MENNA: Yes. If I can ask -- this is 16 Joseph Menna. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chris, the 17 other thing, what makes these things the main 18 difference between the original and the relief, these 19 coins (inaudible) the originals are flat, and these 20 are going to be polished, so they're going to look 21 crisper, and they look more bold. 22 except the original versions with the inscriptions But otherwise, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 77 1 where they were are absolutely faithful. 2 corresponding to the to the original sculpt. 3 original sculpt. 4 Those are the only differences. 5 Noetic To the The change inscriptions are not. MS. STAFFORD: And a quick Internet 6 search by our design manager indicates that the 7 original diameter seemed to be 39 to 40 millimeters. 8 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 9 MS. STAFFORD: 10 DR. BROWN: Thank you. Uh-huh. One other point (inaudible) 11 This is going to be -- the gold is going to be high 12 relief. 13 MR. MENNA: My understanding, and , 14 Mike, correct me, basically the same with the Liberty 15 program. 16 would necessarily be low relief, bigger coin. 17 very much like the American Liberty Program in terms 18 of relief dimensions -- The gold will be high relief. The silver 19 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 20 MR. MENNA: -- and planchettes. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 21 22 Very, Thank you. Yes, sir. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Any Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 78 1 other questions from the committee? 2 Let's begin our consideration. 3 Moran. 4 MR. MORAN: Seeing none. Let's begin with Mike Thank you. Speechless for a change. This is Mike 5 Moran. 6 obviously, the only thing we're being asked to address 7 at this point is whether we prefer the original or the 8 revised. I don't know. 9 There you go. DR. BROWN: 10 you for your brevity. 11 on to Peter? 12 No, I guess Thank you so much. We appreciate that. DR. VAN ALFEN: Thank Let's move Thank you, Dr. Brown. 13 This is Peter Van Alfen. Since this coin, my 14 understanding, is essentially an homage to the 15 original 1794. 16 quirkiness of the original 1794 issue and therefore 17 would support the original rather than the revised. 18 think that the quirkiness does add some flavor, as it 19 were to this homage and reissue, essentially, of the 20 coin. I would prefer to maintain the So that's what I've got to say. 21 DR. BROWN: 22 MR. SCARINCI: I Thanks. Donald? So there's a distinction www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 79 1 between a reproduction and a restrike, right? And the 2 Mint archives have a great deal to offer to restrike a 3 lot of our, you know, a lot of classic designs. 4 there's a draw of, you know, of patterns that can be 5 restruck with beautiful designs. 6 coins, I prefer to buy them from the Sunshine Mint. 7 mean, quite frankly, this is not a coin that I will 8 buy, you know, or have any interest in whatsoever. 9 understand, you know, collectors are clamoring for And And for reproduction 10 these old classics, but all we're doing here is 11 reproducing. 12 reproductions. 13 good reproduction, right? 14 with a reproduction, go with something that looks as 15 close as possible to the original. 16 know, I also agree with Mike. 17 original, but, you know, I'm not voting for this 18 because I think it's a waste of people's money. 19 20 21 22 I I You know, we're just making We're not -- these are reproductions, DR. BROWN: And if you're going to go So I would, you I would support the Thank you so much. We'll go on to Dennis? MR. TUCKER: This is Dennis Tucker. Thank you, Dr. Brown. I think this will be popular www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 80 1 in silver, very popular and reasonably popular in 2 gold. 3 the design is academic because these are, as Donald 4 pointed out, renderings or interpretations rather than 5 technological restrikes. 6 as well if we're going to go down that road. 7 no objection to the revised version, but I think the 8 original is closer to the idiosyncrasy of the 1794 9 coin. I think some of the going back and forth about I have Thank you. 10 11 But I do prefer the original DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Let's turn to Art? 12 MR. BERNSTEIN: 13 Bernstein. 14 and I don't know. 15 quirkiness. This is Arthur I find myself wavering between quirkiness I think I'm going to lean towards 16 DR. BROWN: Okay. 17 MR. SAUNDERS: John? The discussion whether 18 the original or the revised seems to me almost 19 unimportant and moot because while the design is 20 clearly the 1794 $5, it doesn't look anything like it. 21 I mean, anybody that's looked at the coin, it's so 22 stylistically different that it's nowhere close to the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 81 1 original. 2 stylistically different, I don't think it matters 3 whether you maintain the star closer to the date or 4 not. 5 question is, do we want this new revised thing that 6 has perfect detail, it shows it off in a way that 7 technically they couldn't do in 1794. 8 ways I like it, in other ways I hate it. 9 that is the big question for any of the times we're 10 using design is we want to use something that takes 11 design but makes it where it doesn't look anything 12 like it because of, you know, the ability to strike 13 things differently now. 14 think we should be discussing. 15 changes -- you've made so many changes from the 16 original to this, a couple more changes don't bother 17 me at all. I find that completely moot. 18 19 So if you are going to be that much But the main And in some But I think So that's the question I But if you make the DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. MR. HOARD: Thank you. Turn to Kellen? 20 I actually did 21 have a technical question which I forgot to mention 22 earlier. Is this still going to be laser engraved www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 82 1 dyes? 2 3 MR. MENNA: Yes, these will be laser engraved master dye? 4 MR. HOARD: Master dye. Sure. I'm 5 pretty much ambivalent on the difference between 6 original and revised, but just kind of the committee 7 generally pushing towards original. 8 that way as well. 9 to shift the date over or shift the reverse out toward I think I'd head To me, there's not really a reason 10 the edge. So we might as well maintain the 11 idiosyncrasies, and so, I'll be voting for original. 12 DR. BROWN: 13 DR. FULLER: Harcourt? Thank you, Dr. Brown. I'm 14 indifferent as well. 15 be made for both, although, I guess there is something 16 to be said about using modern methods and modern 17 technologies to, I guess you could say recalibrate, if 18 you will, original designs. 19 20 21 22 I think there is an argument to DR. BROWN: So I'm indifferent. Thank you so much. Turn to Chris? DR. CAPOZZOLA: So those of you who are indifferent may wish to flip a coin. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I share some of Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 83 1 this uncertainty. I will just observe, we may be 2 setting precedent here by making certain choices if 3 there are others, if this turns into a series or if 4 the Mint contemplates other kind of issuance like 5 that. 6 otherwise I think I share some of the flight 7 preference for the original design. So we should tread a little bit carefully. But 8 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Mike? 9 MR. MORAN: This is Mike Moran again 10 who is now going to get off the fence. I think if you 11 continue this program to other designs that are in 12 your library, your portfolio, so to speak, if you 13 start to make modifications for aesthetic purposes, I 14 think you quickly will run into too many issues. 15 a lot easier to just stay with the original and let 16 the original imperfections flow through. 17 of the essence of the design to begin with. 18 relief, I agree with Donald and with John that 19 particularly the gold version and the high relief is 20 not going to be very recognizable to a collector who 21 can afford these coins. 22 therefore encourage that when you do the silver, gold Most of us can't. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It's They're part As to the I would Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 84 1 but silver, that you try and stay true to as much as 2 you can to the original coin relief that was executed 3 at the Mint in 1794. 4 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. With 5 respect to the comments from my colleagues here, I'm 6 leaning in the direction that we stay as close to what 7 the original is, recognizing that what we are having 8 here is using modern technology to bring back a 9 beloved design by many collectors. Based on that -- 10 MR. MORAN: (inaudible) motion. 11 DR. BROWN: You want a motion? 12 MR. MORAN: Yeah, I'll make a motion -- DR. BROWN: I don't think we need to 13 - 14 15 (inaudible) Please proceed with the motion. 16 17 MR. MORAN: I move that we recommend that the -- stick to the original designs. 18 DR. VAN ALFEN: 19 DR. BROWN: 20 motion. 21 22 And I often second. Conversation now about the First, let's go to our chief engraver. MS. WARREN: John Saunders has his hand up. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 85 1 2 DR. BROWN: Before we do that, you may have some more information from our chief engraver. 3 MR. SAUNDERS: Just briefly, I'm not 4 trying to endorse one or the other. But historical 5 context, the letters, the way that this manifested 6 two-dimensional designs in the obverse and reverse 7 fully the original version. 8 letter would be akin to -- stylistically, I understand 9 what John's talking about, but that's just a function Changing the spacing of 10 of the relief. This manifests the kind of naive, 11 sculptural style of that period, which is embodied by 12 sculptors like William Rush and others very fully. 13 you're going to change the letters, why not start 14 modernizing the relief, too? 15 replica coin. 16 Morgan. 17 we made from the original because everything embodies 18 the 2D fully is the edge lettering, because that 19 functionally, we could not make the edge lettering as 20 it was on the original and strike it successfully. 21 this is kind of an odd thing. 22 reproduction, but it's also not really -- it's not a If This is not a full This is not what we did with Peace and This is atypical. The only real difference It's not really a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 86 1 replica, rather, because that's a flat coin. 2 you do want to, the two-dimensional fidelity to the 3 original is fully attached. 4 Thank you. 5 But if I would just submit. Unnecessarily, perhaps. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. I've 6 got a motion on the table. 7 comment on the motion or something else you'd like to 8 speak to? 9 John, do you have a MR. WEINMAN: 10 MS. WARREN: 11 MR. SAUNDERS: You're muted, sir. You're still muted. Yes, I have a comment on 12 the motion and a friendly amendment to it. I 13 understand what Joe's saying. 14 different than the original design, but following the 15 lines of the original design, I would like to see the 16 Mint come back with a design that looks like the 17 original and then voting between the two. 18 sure that -- I don't like the concept of having the 19 original made better as opposed to original. 20 think if we're voting between two things, we should be 21 voting between the original design that looks like the 22 original design and the surrealistic update of the This is something www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I'm not But I Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 87 1 original design that we have here. 2 to Mike that we ask the Mint to give us those two 3 choices and bring this back the next meeting. 4 DR. BROWN: So I would suggest Based on my understanding 5 of what you're recommending, it doesn't seem to me 6 that would be a friendly amendment. 7 something that's contrary to the motion. 8 speaking against the motion that Mike just offered, 9 correct? 10 11 MR. SAUNDERS: That would be So you're No, I think he's saying we make (inaudible) of it. 12 DR. BROWN: He is not embracing of it. 13 Any other comments or questions about the motion on 14 the table? 15 motion -- Hearing none. 16 17 All those in favor of the MS. STAFFORD: motion, please? 18 Can you repeat the Sorry. MR. MORAN: Somebody repeat it for me. 19 I move that we stay with the original. 20 all I said -- 21 MS. STAFFORD: 22 MR. MORAN: I think that's Thank you. -- as presented this www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 88 1 morning. 2 MS. STAFFORD: 3 DR. BROWN: Thank you. There being no other 4 comments with respect to the motion on the table. 5 those in favor of the motion, please signify by saying 6 aye. 7 GROUP: 8 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 9 MR. SCARINCI: 10 All Aye. Naye. One abstention, Mr. Chairman? 11 DR. BROWN: One abstention. 12 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 13 DR. BROWN: Aye. Any opposed? So, all in 14 favor except for one abstention. 15 It's going to be -- I think it's going to be still 16 valuable to the Mint to do the score and just hand it 17 in; is that fair? 18 MR. WEINMAN: 19 DR. BROWN: 20 MS. WARREN: The motion carries. It's not necessary. Very good. And this is Jennifer 21 Warren. Dr. Brown, we can move to the next portfolio 22 that was due to come up after lunch because my www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 89 1 understanding is both of the liaisons are on and they 2 said that would be good, so we could stay on track 3 because we're about an hour ahead, if that's still 4 good with the members? 5 DR. BROWN: 6 MS. WARREN: Members? If you want to take a 7 five-minute break, but -- 8 DR. BROWN: 9 MR. BERNSTEIN: 10 DR. BROWN: MR. BERNSTEIN: MS. WARREN: DR. BROWN: 18 MS. WARREN: 19 DR. BROWN: 21 22 Let's take five And then move to the next portfolio? 17 20 Yeah. minutes. 15 16 The next five-minute break -- 13 14 Let's plod on to the next -- 11 12 Members, what should I do? break. Yeah. Okay. Let's take a five-minute Five-minute recess. MS. WARREN: So we'll be doing the U.S. Army Veterans World War II Congressional Gold Medal in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 90 1 five minutes. 2 DR. BROWN: All right. 3 (Off the record.) 4 MS. WARREN: Okay. We are back. And I 5 hand it off to Dr. Brown to move to the U.S. Army 6 Rangers of Veterans of World War II Congressional Gold 7 Medal. 8 9 DR. BROWN: morning, sorry. Morning. Good afternoon. Still We'll now move to review 10 the reverse and obverse candidate designs for the Army 11 Rangers of World War II Congressional Gold Medal. 12 April Stafford, Chief of the Mint's Office of Design 13 Management will introduce the program and present the 14 candidate designs. 15 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. Some 16 background on this program. 17 a Congressional Gold Medal to the United States Army 18 Rangers Veterans of World War II in recognition of 19 their extraordinary service during World War II. 20 Public Law 117-132 awards In the United States, Rangers have 21 existed since the 1700s, but following the Civil War, 22 no Ranger units were activated until World War II. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 In Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 91 1 1942 the U.S. Army formed the first of seven Ranger 2 battalions from a pool of selected volunteers. 3 initial concept combined the British method of using 4 highly trained "commando" units and the military 5 tradition of the United States of utilizing light 6 infantry units for scouting and raiding operations. 7 In fact, the 1st Ranger Battalion received a double- 8 edged "Fairbairn-Sykes" commando knife, a symbol of 9 the British Commandos, after completing their training The 10 with the Commandos in Scotland. The first combat 11 operation occurred on August 19th, 1942, when 50 12 Rangers took part in the British-Canadian raid on the 13 French coast. 14 resulted in the first of eight U.S. Presidential Unit 15 Citations awarded to the Rangers, two additional 16 Ranger battalions were organized in North Africa. 17 These actions demonstrated that the Rangers possessed 18 the fortitude to fight in difficult terrain and 19 embodied the courage necessary to endure despite being 20 outnumbered and exposed to heavy enemy fire. 21 William O. Darby, the first U.S. WWII Ranger and the 22 first commander of a WWII Ranger Battalion, After many successful missions that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Colonel Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 92 1 recognizing how crucial these American commandos would 2 be to the war effort, pushed to expand the Rangers. 3 In April 1943, he requested additional 4 soldiers trained in the Ranger concept of combat. 5 With his request denied, Darby divided the 1st Ranger 6 Battalion into three distinct units that formed the 7 basis for a new Ranger Battalion: 8 Ranger Battalion, the new 3rd Ranger Battalion, and 9 the new 4th Ranger Battalion. the reformed 1st Additional soldiers 10 were recruited from replacement personnel centers or 11 depots. 12 from volunteers drawn from the 29th Infantry Division 13 stationed in Tidworth Barracks, England, was activated 14 on December 20th, 1942. 15 participate in any battalion or company-size combat 16 operations, the 29th conducted smaller raids on the 17 English Channel Islands and on the Norwegian coast. 18 The unit was disbanded due to the formation of the 2nd 19 and 5th Ranger Battalions in Camp Forrest, Tennessee. 20 The 6th Ranger Battalion operated in the Pacific 21 theatre. 22 Battalions carried out successful and heroic missions The 29th Provisional Ranger Battalion, formed Although they did not Once formed, the six active-duty Ranger www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 93 1 throughout the North African, European, and Pacific 2 theatres. 3 2nd Ranger Battalion was their climb up the cliffs of 4 Pointe du Hoc in Normandy, a feat memorialized by 5 President Reagan in his 40th anniversary speech about 6 the "Boys of Pointe du Hoc" in 1984. 7 One of the most celebrated missions of the During the 5th Ranger Battalion's beach 8 landing at nearby Omaha Beach, Brigadier General 9 Norman Cota from the 29th Infantry Division stopped to 10 ask the Ranger Battalion Commander to identify his 11 unit. 12 then, lead the way, Rangers!" 13 altered to "Rangers Lead the Way!" and has since 14 become the motto for the Rangers still in use. Brigadier General Cota then commanded, "Well 15 This command was later Approximately, seven thousand men from 16 active duty and provisional WWII Ranger Battalions 17 were collectively awarded eight Presidential Unit 18 Citations. 19 and are buried in numerous American cemeteries 20 overseas. 21 us today. 22 Many Rangers made the ultimate sacrifice Only 12 Rangers are known to still be with We are so pleased to have with us our www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 94 1 liaisons for this program. 2 Hudnell, the project manager for this congressional 3 gold medal and a representative of the descendants of 4 the World War II Rangers, as well as Jimmie Spencer 5 with the association of the United States Army. 6 invite Mr. Hudnell or Mr. Spencer to say a few words? 7 MR. HUDNELL: I'd like to introduce Ron Okay. May I Thank you very 8 much for inviting Command Sergeant Major Retired 9 Spencer and myself to this meeting to answer any 10 questions that you may have and for us to be able to 11 present. 12 should be awarded the Congressional Gold Medal and the 13 elements we would like to see on the Congressional 14 Gold Medal design. 15 committee the descendants of World War II Ranger 16 League. 17 -- that committee wanted to see on the medal, and 18 those nine elements are contained within our first 19 tourist preferences, both the off birth and the 20 rebirth. 21 were selected by the Commission of Fine Arts. 22 very thankful and happy for that. The reasons that the World War II Rangers The -- I am the liaison from the There were nine elements that they wanted to And those were the same two designs that We're They had a couple www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 95 1 of suggestions from their recent meeting, and we're 2 able to address those today if you would like. 3 Jimmie, do you have anything you want to say? 4 MR. SPENCER: Yes. So, First of all, thank 5 you for allowing us to do this and be here. I've been 6 listening to your proceedings all morning, and I'm 7 very impressed. 8 I've learned a lot. 9 United States Army, and a small group of former You guys are doing a great job, and I represent the Association 10 Rangers, many of whom are in the Ranger Hall of Fame. 11 And although we seldom agree with anything, we have 12 come together along with the family members, and we 13 think that we've got the best possible Gold Medals 14 that represent the heritage and the history of our 15 Rangers. 16 are concerned about is those 12 Rangers who are still 17 surviving, and hopefully that we will be able to 18 present this to them or show this to them while 19 they're still with us. 20 to be here. 21 22 And one of the things that we collectively So thank you for allowing us MS. STAFFORD: much. Okay. Thank you so And yes, we will very likely ask you to comment www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 96 1 on the CFA suggestions, or rather, the committee will 2 likely call on you to weigh in. 3 through the obverse candidate designs. 4 This is our liaison's second preferred design for the 5 obverse. 6 as well as the recommendation of the CFA. 7 that the word "SALERNO" will also appear on this side 8 as well as the preferred reverse. 9 note of that here. First, we'll move We have O-01. O-04, our liaison's preferred obverse design You'll note So I'll just make Also, the CFA noted that the 10 exclamation points on "RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!" 11 suggested that unless it was really part of the motto, 12 that it be considered for removal. 13 checked with our liaisons, and they do feel that it is 14 actually an integral part of the motto and is only 15 ever seen using the exclamation mark. 16 They I believe that we Moving on to O-06 and O-07, our 17 liaison's third preferred obverse. Moving on to the 18 reverse candidate designs, we have R-01. 19 liaison's third preferred reverse. 20 R-04, R-07A, our liaison's first preferred design for 21 the reverse as well as the recommendation by the CFA. 22 Note again the repeat of the word "SALERNO". It is our R-01A, R-02, R-03, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And I Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 97 1 believe let me just ask Boneza Hanchock, our design 2 manager, for this program. 3 across both? Does World War II repeat 4 MS. HANCHOCK: Yes. 5 MS. STAFFORD: And so, we also have the 6 repeated inscription World War II. Again, once we 7 move through the candidate designs, perhaps we can go 8 back to our liaisons to comment on any duplicated 9 inscription and give you some of their thoughts before 10 you deliberate. 11 next candidate design R-07B, and then finally R-08B. 12 So that concludes the candidate designs. 13 And then we have -- moving on to the Chairman Brown, I don't know if you 14 want to have the liaisons speak to their thoughts on 15 the -- 16 17 18 DR. BROWN: I think that would be appropriate. MS. STAFFORD: Okay. So, Ron or 19 Jimmie, would you like to share your thoughts? I know 20 you listened in, and you heard the CFA's comments 21 about some of the repeated inscriptions across the 22 obverse and reverse. Would you like to make your www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 98 1 observations or ideas about how that might be 2 remedied? 3 MR. HUDNELL: Well, we think that the 4 "SALERNO" on the obverse should be replaced with 5 "CHIUNZI," C-H-I-U-N-Z-I. 6 letters. 7 World War II Rangers received their citations, the 8 Presidential Unit Citation. 9 like should replace "Salerno." It's the same number of It's also more accurate as to where the So that's what we feel Actually, we would 10 like to have Chiunzi Pass, but we recognize that's 11 more letters, it might create engraving problems. 12 we're willing to consider "Chiunzi" instead of 13 "Salerno" on the obverse. 14 MS. STAFFORD: 15 MR. SPENCER: 16 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 17 So Thank you. I agree 100 percent. Did you say, Chiunzi Pass? 18 MS. STAFFORD: 19 MR. SPENCER: Yes. And we do strongly feel 20 that the exclamation point should be retained on the 21 "RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!" 22 As I mentioned to the Brigadier General Cota That is part of the motto. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 when he Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 99 1 came onto Omaha Beach, he issued a command to the 2 Rangers. 3 way. 4 exclamation point is important. He was not asking them nicely to lead the He was telling them forcefully, so that 5 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. So there we 6 have the commentary on "SALERNO" being removed from 7 that top location and replaced with "CHIUNZI" or 8 "CHIUNZI PASS," if the space would allow retaining the 9 exclamation mark. 10 And is it correct that you would like World War II to remain on the obverse as well? 11 MR. HUDNELL: 12 remain on the obverse. 13 from the reverse. 14 I think it could be removed MS. STAFFORD: 15 reverse now. 16 at 7A. Thank you. We would like it to Okay. We'll move to the All right. 17 MR. HUDNELL: 18 MS. STAFFORD: So we're looking 7A. Okay. There we are. 19 "SALERNO" would stay here, and World War II could be 20 removed. 21 22 MR. HUDNELL: on the location. Correct. One other point On the reverse, we have the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 100 1 locations where the Rangers made their seven combat or 2 six combat landings in World War II. 3 the landing craft assault on the obverse. 4 point is, maybe we should put the landing on the same 5 side with the landing craft and the locations where 6 the Rangers were awarded Presidential Unit Citations 7 on the same side as the Presidential Unit Citation 8 Ribbon that you see at the top of 7A. 9 DR. BROWN: And we detect So the And further comments, 10 suggestions? Then we will begin by asking members of 11 the committee, do they have any technical or legal 12 questions about this program? 13 DR. VAN ALFEN: This is Peter Van 14 Alfen. 15 but I do have a question for our liaisons. 16 Hudnell, you had mentioned nine elements that you 17 wanted or the groups that you represent wanted to see 18 incorporated. 19 elements are? 20 I don't have a technical or legal question, Mr. Could you expand on what those nine MR. HUDNELL: Sure. The first, the 21 committee felt that the Southern combat landings 22 should be listed on the coin, which they are on the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 101 1 reverse that you see. They wanted an image of a 2 landing craft assault. 3 that carried Rangers into most of those combat 4 landings. 5 patch on a uniform. 6 obverse. 7 shown -- it is there, but it's very difficult to see. 8 They wanted the motto "RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!" 9 wanted the British "Fairbairn-Sykes" commando knife, It was a British landing craft They would like to see the Ranger shoulder That is not reflected on the The soldiers landing on the beach, is not They 10 which you see on the reverse. They wanted the 11 numbered Ranger's scroll, which you also see both for 12 the authorized 6th Ranger Battalions and then the 29th 13 Provisional Ranger Battalion. 14 important to have that on the medal. 15 word World War II. 16 Infantryman Badge, in which you see on the reverse. They felt it was They wanted the And then they wanted a Combat 17 DR. VAN ALFEN: 18 MR. HUDNELL: All right. Thank you. The -- some of the 19 artists depicted the landings for the Presidential 20 Unit Citations or the locations for the Presidential 21 Unit Citations. 22 important, but it was not in their original list of And so, they felt that was also www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 102 1 nine elements that they would like to see. 2 3 DR. VAN ALFEN: All right. Thank you very much. 4 DR. BROWN: Further questions from the 5 committee? I do have just a few. 6 think that Mr. Hudnell mentioned that you are Sergeant 7 Major; is that correct? 8 MR. HUDNELL: 9 DR. BROWN: And, Mr. Spencer, I Yes, sir. So the reason why I raised 10 this, because I believe that it's our responsibility 11 to make sure we educate other persons who, in fact, 12 may not have had the privilege of serving. 13 that when I served, there's one word that we never 14 said to the noncommissioned officers. 15 serve to them because they told us they always work 16 for their living. 17 (inaudible) 18 I remember We never said Is that something that you embrace, MR. SPENCER: We work for a living. 19 And if I had my way about it, we'd put that on the 20 coin. 21 22 DR. BROWN: Appreciate that. The other question I have, the Combat Infantry Badge, is that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 103 1 something that all Rangers achieved before they left 2 that Ranger school or is that something that was only 3 awarded to some of the Rangers? 4 MR. SPENCER: The Combat Infantry Badge 5 is awarded to instrument who spent at least, I think, 6 90 days a minimum in combat. 7 designed for the Rangers. 8 combat instrument who's ever fought since World War 9 II. 10 DR. BROWN: It's not specifically It is for any and every Thank you so much. Then, 11 unless there's any other question from the committee 12 members, if not, then let's begin our consideration. 13 And I'd like to if colleagues would appreciate and 14 allow me the discretion to begin the process. 15 have a few comments. 16 support the preferences by you as well as the CFA and 17 I do so for a couple of reasons. 18 my colleagues are going to have a stroke made of this. 19 I really like number four, because it has the most 20 negative space. 21 really stand out and pop. 22 suggest this one is that compared to some designs, for I just First and foremost, I agree and One, is that -- and It allows for that major element to The also reason why I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 104 1 example, six, O-06, you really can't tell what the 2 insignia is on the helmet. 3 know, this could be either a major or lieutenant 4 colonel based on what I could see. 5 in fact, have the full (inaudible) colonel leading the 6 battalion. 7 really appreciate. 8 why I like O-04 is that it does have action and that 9 action is, in fact, landing on the base -- on And if you say, as you So it's better to, So for me that makes it even easier to The other is that -- the reason 10 landings. 11 troops into battle? 12 think about and our service persons who, in fact, 13 defend this country as often as they do in many places 14 that they do so. So those are my comments with 15 respect to that. And again, I'm going to be in favor 16 of those that have been favored by you as well as the 17 CFA. 18 19 20 21 22 So where you see an officer leading their So to me it reminds me of what we Going to move now to my colleagues next for this. So let's move then with Donald. MR. SCARINCI: I support the liaison's recommendations on the Congressional Gold Medal. DR. BROWN: Outstanding. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Peter? Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 105 1 DR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 2 Peter Van Alfen. 3 recommendations as well since they incorporate the 4 nine elements and do seem generally to be fairly 5 strong designs. 6 like R-02 quite a bit. 7 strong and attractive design. 8 the scene of action there as well. 9 happy to support the recommendations of O-04 and 7A. 10 I'm happy to support the I do want to say that I really do I think that's a really rather And in R-04, I do like But again, I'm Thank you. 11 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 12 MR. WEINMAN: 13 MR. SAUNDERS: John? You're muted, John. Okay. Sorry about that. 14 Excuse me. I would also support the recommendations. 15 This is a situation where I like almost all the 16 designs. 17 similar, sometimes you decide that you'd like the one 18 better than the other. 19 go with what the liaisons recommend. I think when you compare two that look But I like them all, so I'll 20 DR. BROWN: Thank you. Kellen? 21 MR. HOARD: Thank you. This is Kellen 22 Hoard. For the obverse, I was really kind of split www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 106 1 between option one and option seven. I thought that 2 those, which I know, were the second and third 3 preferences of the liaisons. 4 some of the more compelling images. 5 embodies the motto of leading the way. 6 see them doing that, especially the seven, beckoning 7 them forward. 8 I think they're balanced. 9 interesting. I think that those are I think it really You can really I think that those two are compelling. I think they're I think they're clean. My concern with 10 four largely relates to my preference for the reverse. 11 I like the liaison's first preference of 7A for the 12 reverse. I think it works as it is, 7A for the 13 reverse. And so I would support 7A fully. 14 worry in many ways about the redundancy issues with 15 four. 16 design, especially paired with that reverse, whereas I 17 think one or seven for the obverse really pairs nicely 18 with 7A for the reverse. 19 four towards, kind of, the depictions in one and 20 seven, which it seems like meets most between one 21 seven and then R-7A meets all nine of the stipulations 22 and I think is a much more compelling set of designs. But then I And I worry that four isn't quite as clean of a And so, I move away from www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 107 1 Thank you. 2 3 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Dr. Fuller? 4 DR. FULLER: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 5 This is Dr. Harcourt Fuller. I think this is a 6 wonderful portfolio. 7 choices. 8 reminding us that we just commemorated Veterans Day. 9 And it's really an honor to review this portfolio in I will support the liaison's And, Dr. Brown, I must thank you for 10 the same month for the sacrifices that these great 11 Americans have made for our country and for our 12 future. Thank you. 13 14 DR. BROWN: thoughtful comments. 15 Thank you so much for your Let's turn now to Dennis? MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 16 This is Dennis Tucker. I support the liaison's 17 preferences. 18 R-7A helps balance it. 19 bothered me having World and War separated that way on 20 7A. 21 troubles me a little bit. It almost reads, World War 22 II, Rangers lead the way. Even though the word I think that removing World War II from That was something that However, I -- it -- the lettering on O-04 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 108 1 Rangers is larger, I wonder if there's some way, we 2 could add some space or some other way to make that 3 distinction between the concept of World War II and 4 the motto of (inaudible) Lead the way. 5 don't know if our liaisons quite finished their 6 thoughts on changing the names of the different 7 military engagements and moving those around on 8 obverse and reverse. 9 anything to add to that. 10 And then, I I don't know if you have And those are my comments. Thank you. 11 MR. HUDNELL: Well, the point that I 12 was trying to make is the landing craft is depicted on 13 the obverse, but the locations for the landing is on 14 the reverse. 15 for the Presidential Unit Citations, but on the 16 reverse, we have the Presidential Citation Ribbon in 17 the upper portion of the medal. 18 be (inaudible) if that makes sense or could 19 (inaudible) 20 And on the uppers, we have the locations MS. STAFFORD: 21 Stafford. 22 possibility. The locations should So this is April I did speak with Mike Costello about that And it looks like it is something that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 109 1 could be accommodated just literally inverting the 2 placement of the border inscriptions from obverse to 3 reverse. 4 MR. TUCKER: Thank you. 5 DR. BROWN: 6 MR. BERNSTEIN: Art? This is Arthur 7 Bernstein. I also agree with the first preferences of 8 the liaisons. 9 essential elements, and I'm pleased that those I listened carefully to the nine 10 requirements were all met. I have a 10th element that 11 I like to see when we consider the Congressional Gold 12 Medals, and that is the phrase, "Act of Congress," 13 which indicates that it is a Congressional Gold Medal. 14 And I would just raise the question, as we're moving 15 lettering around, taking the redundant World War II 16 off of one side, might we add, "Act of Congress" to 17 make it clear that it is a Congressional Gold Medal. 18 Thank you. 19 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 20 MR. MORAN: This is Mike Moran. Mike? I 21 personally want to compliment the sponsors of this 22 because oftentimes when we get these medal designs in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 110 1 here, the sponsors have gone off on an angle at a 2 different track than what they really should. 3 guys were well grounded in the way you judged these, 4 and you came up, in my opinion, with the right 5 selections, out for both the obverse and the reverse. 6 7 DR. BROWN: Turn to Chris? 8 9 Thank you so much. You DR. CAPOZZOLA: I also support this combination of four and 7A, particularly with the 10 alignment of Unit Citation and Landings that Mr. 11 Hudnell described. 12 don't actually know if we need to say the World War II 13 at all. 14 names, there are other things. 15 to, you know, sort of, cover the bases, that may be 16 unnecessary. 17 if it's for the liaisons or the artists, but the knife 18 in 7A has a small bevel on it that none of the other 19 designs have. 20 word. 21 (inaudible) 22 Very small and two things. One, I And if -- there are dates, there are place And if we're trying And then a small question. I don't know I don't know if bevel is the right Total triangle at the top, right by the Is there a reason for that? MR. HUDNELL: I'm not sure I heard your www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 111 1 question. 2 DR. CAPOZZOLA: So if you look at the 3 Fairbairn knife in 7A and see sort of the knife edge. 4 This drawing has that -- see that triangular bevel 5 right by where the hand goes? 6 that appears on this drawing of the knife and on one 7 of the other ones in the portfolio. 8 9 10 MR. HUDNELL: And I think the knife in 7A is an accurate depiction, but I can check to make sure, but I'm pretty sure that is correct. 11 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 12 DR. BROWN: 13 Wait a minute. Thanks. Thank you so much. Mint staff have anything you want to add to that? 14 MR. COSTELLO: 15 DR. BROWN: I have no additional. Okay. Are there any 16 further additional comments or motions from the 17 members at this time? 18 DR. VAN ALFEN: This is Peter Van 19 Alfen. I've got a question for our liaisons again. 20 noticed that in a couple of the obverses, the colonel 21 leading the charge is carrying a Thompson submachine 22 gun and in others he's carrying an M1 Garand. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Was I Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 112 1 there a preference that officers would have either way 2 or is this Thompson's submachine gun in O-04 accurate 3 in that regard? 4 MR. HUDNELL: During World War II, a 5 lot of the Special Operations type troops, the leader 6 of a platoon or the leader of the company or the 7 battalion commander would often carry the Thompson 8 submachine gun. 9 is supposed to be Colonel Darby, who was the founder I don't know that the colonel -- this 10 of the First Ranger Battalion in June 1942. 11 say that he actually carried a Thompson submachine 12 gun, but the officers -- some of the officers would 13 have. 14 the Thompson. 15 I can't So that wasn't intentional to have him carrying DR. VAN ALFEN: Okay. One -- just one 16 point of detail. 17 understanding the Thompson had a special ammo belt and 18 this ammo belt doesn't quite look accurate for the 19 Thompson cartridge -- or clips. 20 correct, do you know, or is that -- 21 22 The ammo belt on the colonel. MR. HUDNELL: see. My Is the ammo belt I would have to check and I'm not sure about that. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 113 1 DR. VAN ALFEN: Okay. All right. 2 DR. BROWN: Kellen? 3 MR. HOARD: So this is Kellen Hoard. I 4 just had a quick technical question. 5 brought this up of including Act of Congress somewhere 6 like we did for 7A. 7 would there be space on the reverse to replace the 8 World War II on 7A with Act of Congress? 9 if that's even possible. 10 11 I think Arthur I was wondering, for the design, MR. HUDNELL: I don't know I would rather see it on the obverse. 12 MR. HOARD: 13 MR. HUDNELL: The word Act of -There's Act of Congress 14 2022, just below the top of the medal there on the 15 obverse. Underneath, where you have Salerno. 16 MR. HOARD: Yeah. I was wondering -- 17 on the design side, would it be possible on the 18 reverse even? 19 20 21 22 MR. MENNA: I'm sorry, I was speaking to myself saying there's plenty of space. MR. HOARD: No. On this reverse, would there be room to replace World War II with Act of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 114 1 Congress, theoretically? 2 MR. MENNA: I think for it to read 3 linearly through the dagger would be challenging. 4 World War II, that's much more common kind of thing. 5 And the dates also being split. 6 obverse, up in the sky, upper left quadrant of the 7 medal, if Act of Congress were to be placed there, I 8 think it would work just fine. 9 coins. These are metals. I think, on the These are polished There's plenty of space for 10 Act of Congress to be included in a way for all the 11 stakeholders that will not diminish the integrity of 12 the design. 13 MR. HOARD: Okay. 14 DR. BROWN: Dennis? 15 MR. TUCKER: Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Brown. I 16 have a question for our liaisons about R-02. 17 understand this was not necessarily one of your 18 preferences, but I'm curious if you had any discussion 19 when you were reviewing this portfolio. 20 with other liaisons for other Congressional Gold 21 Medals about the use of silhouette, and I won't 22 summarize their thoughts or feelings on that because I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And I We've talked Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 115 1 don't want to color your commentary. 2 any discussion pro or con or was that an issue at all? 3 MR. HUDNELL: But was there I don't think there was 4 any discussion pro or con about the silhouettes. 5 think the committee was more concerned about the 6 elements that they wanted to see on the medal. 7 had World War II Rangers. 8 with the listing of the seven battalions, and it had 9 the 29th Rangers on there. 10 I So it It had the Ranger Scroll Again, it was not our first choice. 11 MR. TUCKER: 12 MR. SPENCER: Thank you. I agree. We didn't -- 13 the issue of silhouettes did not come up in our 14 discussions. 15 particular rendition here and it looked more like it 16 was a disorganized group of folks and it didn't pass 17 the muster. 18 The first time I saw it was this MR. TUCKER: Okay. thank you for that 19 commentary. That was just more out of my own 20 curiosity because we have talked about that with other 21 groups, and I wanted to see if there was any kind of 22 consensus for you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 116 1 2 DR. BROWN: Passing a muster is a real recognized military term, so I appreciate that. 3 MR. BERNSTEIN: Art? This is Arthur 4 Bernstein. Mr. Chairman, in effort to facilitate the 5 conversation, would you entertain a motion? 6 DR. BROWN: Always. 7 MR. BERNSTEIN: Then I would move that 8 our committee recommend O-04, R-7A. Included in that 9 recommendation would be flipping the geographic 10 locations, as was discussed and a request that the 11 designers consider separating World War -- on the 12 obverse, separating World War II from the rest of the 13 phrase and also consider adding Act of Congress. 14 DR. VAN ALFEN: 15 DR. BROWN: 16 a second. 17 I would second that. So I have a motion. I have Now we have a discussion about the motion. MR. MORAN: Just a friendly amendment 18 that the ammo belts on the colonel be checked for 19 accuracy. 20 MR. BERNSTEIN: 21 MR. MORAN: 22 Gladly accept it. Another friendly amendment eliminate World War II on the reverse of 7A. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 117 1 2 MR. BERNSTEIN: further discussion. 3 4 MR. MORAN: I just don't know how people feel about it. 5 DR. BROWN: 6 MR. BERNSTEIN: 7 you. 8 friendly amendment. You got it on both sides. This is Art Bernstein. 9 10 I think that requires Yes. I misunderstood I gratefully accept your DR. BROWN: Okay. Any other friendly MR. HOARD: Also, in addition to amendments? 11 12 flipping the inscriptions, actually replacing Salerno 13 with the -- I forget what was the other location they 14 wanted? 15 MR. BERNSTEIN: 16 MR. HOARD: 17 MS. STAFFORD: 22 Depending on space. They prefer pass but -- 20 21 But maybe without Pass, depending on space, however -- 18 19 Chiunzy Pass. MR. HOARD: Okay. But if that's feasible? MR. BERNSTEIN: Also accepted www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 118 1 friendliest motion possible. 2 DR. CAPOZZOLA: Friendly amendment -- 3 is Chiunzy, is it a site of landing or is the site of 4 unit citation? 5 6 It should go in the right place. MR. HUNDELL: It should go on the side with the citations. 7 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 8 MR. HUNDELL: 9 DR. BROWN: Thank you. Please. So we have a motion, we 10 have friendly amendments, and we have a second. 11 further discussion? 12 I'd like to, I mean, I'd -- 13 14 Any I do have further discussion. MR. MORAN: You're digging your own DR. BROWN: I understand. hole. 15 As the 16 chair, from time to time, I have these comments, but I 17 try to, in fact, contain myself, admittedly. 18 ask the question about Act of Congress. 19 have for our liaisons, how crucial was that phrase? 20 Because I raise it because to put that on there is 21 going to take something away from the designs that 22 we've seen. But I do I guess I And I hate to lose that negative space on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 119 1 the objects for the sake of that. 2 from our liaisons, the Act of Congress phrase, how in 3 fact, from your conversations, how crucial was that? 4 MR. HUNDELL: So I'm curious, That discussion, that 5 element was not selected by the committee as something 6 that they absolutely wanted to see. 7 the committee several times that it's not always on 8 the medal -- Congressional Gold Medals, but most of 9 the time that phrase is on the Congressional Gold I mentioned to 10 Medals. 11 said was one of their drop-dead requirements. 12 13 But it was not something that the committee DR. BROWN: Appreciate it. Any further comments? 14 MR. SPENCER: 15 DR. BROWN: 16 MR. SPENCER: Just -I'm sorry. Go ahead. Just let me add that we 17 looked at it -- the Ranger veterans looked at it and 18 we had it on one or two of the other designs and it 19 was uniformly rejected so -- 20 DR. BROWN: Rejected. 21 MR. MORAN: One more comment. 22 DR. BROWN: Okay. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Okay. Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 120 1 MR. MORAN: This is Mike Moran. I 2 think you can do it on the obverse of four if you make 3 it small font. It doesn't need to be big. 4 DR. BROWN: 5 MR. TUCKER: Dennis? Dr. Brown, this is Dennis 6 Tucker. Just to clarify the motion, are we including 7 in our recommendation that Act of Congress definitely 8 be included or with the discretion of the design 9 staff? 10 DR. BROWN: I think the friendly 11 amendment that was raised by you was to definitely 12 include it. 13 MR. HOARD: 14 MR. BERNSTEIN: 15 able to help. 16 used was consider. That wasn't my amendment. Dr. Brown, I might be This is Arthur Bernstein and the word I 17 DR. BROWN: Consider. 18 MS. STAFFORD: 19 DR. BROWN: 20 MS. STAFFORD: Fair enough? Dr. Brown? Yes. If you're leaving it to 21 the Mint to consider, given the strength of what our 22 liaisons have said, especially talking with www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 121 1 representatives of the veterans themselves, not 2 finding favor with including Act of Congress, that I 3 can say that the team here would move forward not 4 including it. 5 DR. BROWN: Thank you. We have a 6 motion. We have a second with friendly amendments. 7 Any further conversation or comments about the motion? 8 9 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: With this friendly (inaudible) 10 DR. BROWN: 11 favor of saying, aye. 12 GROUP: 13 DR. BROWN: All those in Opposed, nay? Any Aye. 14 abstentions? 15 motion passes unanimously. 16 Hearing none. Hearing none. It seems to me that the So we really want to thank the liaisons 17 for your patience, particularly you, Mr. Hudnell, 18 because you told me you've been here from the 19 beginning of the last session. 20 for your contributions that you passed, your 21 contributions today. 22 of the day. We want to thank you We wish you a pleasant remainder www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 122 1 MS. WARREN: 2 MR. HUDNELL: 3 MR. SPENCER: Appreciate it. 6 7 We Thank you very much. Thank you. MS. WARREN: Dr. Brown, let's ask April if she still wants the score of these designs. 8 9 Thank you very much. appreciate your regard. 4 5 Dr. Brown? MS. STAFFORD: that. No, we don't require But I apologize, I just want to make sure. As 10 part of the motion, did it -- was there a definitive 11 decision about World War II or was that not part of 12 it? 13 DR. BROWN: It was. 14 MS. STAFFORD: Okay. 15 repeat that part? 16 writing this down correctly -- I just want to make sure I'm 17 MR. WEINMAN: 18 MS. STAFFORD: 19 20 21 22 correct? Okay. Can you just This removal --- on the reverse, Thank you. MR. HOARD: April, do you want us to mark artistic merits? MS. STAFFORD: It's not necessary. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 123 1 MR. HOARD: Okay. 2 MS. STAFFORD: 3 DR. BROWN: Thank you. I think based on that, then 4 we've covered the programs for this morning. 5 we're going to have a brief lunch. 6 MS. WARREN: Now I would -- this is 7 Jennifer Warren. 8 the lunch until 1:00 because we still moved up an hour 9 and I believe the liaison from Michigan can do it at 10 1:00. 11 12 I would suggest we stick to keeping UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: it for sure. 13 I haven't heard Sorry. MS. WARREN: Okay. We'll aim for 1:00 14 until we hear otherwise. 15 11:45 right now. 16 and coming -- at least starting -- come back at 1:00 17 and then we'll see where we are. 18 19 We'll, at least -- it is So I would suggest going to recess DR. BROWN: Sounds reasonable. Coming back at 1:00. 20 (Off the record.) 21 DR. BROWN: 22 Recess. back. Good afternoon. We're I want to take a quick roll call to confirm www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 124 1 that we have a quorum. 2 when I call your name. Please acknowledge present 3 Arthur Bernstein? 4 MR. BERNSTEIN: 5 DR. BROWN: 6 DR. VAN ALFEN: 7 DR. BROWN: 8 MR. SCARINCI: 9 DR. BROWN: Michael Moran? 10 MR. MORAN: Present. 11 DR. BROWN: Harcourt Fuller? 12 DR. FULLER: 13 MR. HOARD: Kellen Hoard? 14 MR. HOARD: Present. 15 DR. BROWN: Christopher Capozzola? 16 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 17 DR. BROWN: 18 MR. TUCKER: 19 DR. BROWN: 20 MR. SAUNDERS: 21 DR. BROWN: 22 We do have a quorum. Present. Peter Van Alfen? Present. Donald Scarinci? Present. Present. Present. Dennis Tucker? Present. John Saunders? Present. And I am Lawrence Brown. We will now move to the next www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 125 1 portfolio for consideration today. 2 candidate designs for the 2025 American Innovation $1 3 coin honoring innovation in Michigan. 4 chief of the Mint's Office of Design Management will 5 introduce the program and present the reverse 6 candidate designs. 7 MS. STAFFORD: The reverse April Stafford, Thank you. And 8 previously I gave background information on this 9 program. So we'll go straight into information about 10 Michigan's concept. There is a single concept, and 11 that is the automobile assembly line. 12 assembly line changed the way automobiles are made. 13 The assembly line concept was originally patented by 14 Ransom Olds and was used to build the first mass 15 produced automobile, the Oldsmobile Curved Dash in 16 1901. 17 introduced the assembly line after visiting a 18 slaughterhouse in Chicago. 19 referred to as the disassembly line, a system where 20 carcasses were butchered as they moved along a 21 conveyor. 22 same piece over and over without moving himself caught The moving At the Ford Motor Company, William Klann There he observed what was The efficiency of one person removing the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 126 1 Klann's attention. At Ford, the process was an 2 evolution by trial and error. 3 line was developed for the Ford Model T and began 4 operation on October 7th, 1913, at the Highland Park 5 Ford Plant. 6 time and motion studies. 7 conveyor belts, reduced production time for a Model T 8 from over 12 hours to just 93 minutes by dividing the 9 process into 45 steps. The moving assembly It continued to evolve after that using The assembly line, driven by With the reduction of time 10 came a reduction in injuries to workers and the 11 financial cost of production. 12 reduced the price of automobiles, increased pay for 13 workers, and played an integral part in America's 14 adoption of the automobile in everyday life. 15 This cost savings Required inscriptions for this coin are 16 United States of America and Michigan. 17 pleased to have with us today our liaison to Michigan, 18 Judge Steven Bieda. 19 few words before our committee reviews the candidate 20 designs? 21 22 Judge, would you like to say a MR. BIEDA: Steve Bieda. We are so Thank you. My name is I'm from Michigan, and I have a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 127 1 numismatic backup in addition to (inaudible) I'm a 2 life member of the ANA, and I'm also a designer of the 3 Olympic coins in 1992 and had design experience 4 working on Michigan quarter dollars in 2004. 5 had an opportunity to review designs that have been 6 fitted specifically in the assembly line. 7 some things in there, and I don't know if it's 8 appropriate to share those with you or the committee 9 would like to (inaudible) those first. We've And we have But if our 10 preferences and sort of in the order are M1-06, 11 followed by M1-05, and then third choice is M1-02. 12 One of the things that we liked about M1-06 is the 13 fact that it shows a lot of the vitality of the 14 movement of the assembly line as well as it also shows 15 several workers on the assembly line, which is an 16 important part of the assembly line process, as well 17 as it's influenced in the creation of the American 18 middle class. 19 Henry Ford -- $5 promised the workers which was one of 20 the things that he seen Michigan (inaudible) of the 21 middle class. 22 there's also some technical -- small technical changes Many of you might be familiar with (inaudible) we suggest (inaudible) www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 128 1 to the 06 spokes and the wheels on there, which is a 2 pretty (inaudible) product as well. 3 there's any questions on that. 4 format goes on this, but it's an honor to be here and 5 an opportunity to appear before the Citizen Advisory 6 Commission in the past of some other points programs. 7 And it's great to see everybody. 8 9 MS. STAFFORD: really appreciate that. I don't know if I'm not sure how the (inaudible) Thank you so much. We And yes, the committee will 10 definitely come back to you with questions as they 11 have them. 12 now. 13 liaison noted, this is their tertiary preference. 14 It's also the recommendation by the CFA, although the 15 CFA did suggest again, it's the liaison's suggestion 16 that if possible, a worker could be added into the 17 background. 18 liaison's secondary preference. 19 is our liaison's first preference. 20 is a request by the liaison to -- not necessarily for 21 this design, but for anyone that moves forward, that 22 more than one person be depicted. And we will go to the candidate designs Starting with design one, design two, as our Design three, four, five. This is our And six -- design six And again, there Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 129 1 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. To the 2 committee, are there any technical or legal questions 3 that you have about this program? 4 us begin our consideration. 5 MR. SCARINCI: Seeing none. Let Let's start with Donald? I think this is one of 6 those designs I would love to just make a motion and 7 do it. 8 here. 9 everything we need to do to illustrate the assembly I think design number three is a no brainer I think it fits within the series. It does 10 line process. I think it's; you know, I think it's -- 11 I love the geometric forms. 12 live with the little, tiny people that are going to 13 look like the quarter in your -- it's going to look 14 like the little guy in the quarter on your display 15 board in front of you, where you can't really see 16 unless you take a loop to it that that's a person who 17 looks like a bug. 18 symmetry -- what works here is the symmetry of those 19 little figures along with the lines. 20 - it presents a dynamic and as far as I know, accurate 21 image of assembly line -- of assembly lines. 22 know, I really, you know, I appreciate the liaison's And, you know, I could So but in this context, I think the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 You know, it's - I, you Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 130 1 preference for number six, but, you know, those cars 2 look like they came from one of the original assembly 3 lines. 4 figures in there. 5 a bug and, you know, on the quarter planchette. 6 think this is an opportunity, especially since we went 7 with a portrait on one of the other coins in the 8 series. 9 go back to, you know, what makes this particular And, you know, again, you know, there's three Two of them are going to look like So I You know, I think this is an opportunity to 10 series, you know, very cool and go with the geometric 11 design. 12 13 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Let's turn to Peter? 14 DR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 15 Peter Van Alfen. I do like the symmetry of number 16 three. 17 however, if it is an accurate representation of a 18 1960s assembly line, which is what it seems to be. 19 have a strong preference for number two. 20 this is a very strong design. 21 another figure to it, actually, in my preference, 22 would not add greatly to the design. I agree with Donald there. I'm not sure, I think that And I think adding www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I I think it's Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 131 1 quite strong as it is right now. 2 think the overall portfolio is really quite nice and 3 attractive. 4 out just for the strength of design. 5 at that. DR. BROWN: So I'll leave it Thank you so much. Let's turn to John? 8 9 But I think number two really does stand Thank you. 6 7 And the others, I MR. SAUNDERS: number one. My first preference was I like several designs that are similar. 10 Number one was a little bit simpler, easier to 11 understand. 12 well as number one, but very similar. 13 didn't like. 14 the Model T, and this is, you know, 30, 40 years 15 later. 16 understand, as Donald saying, the symmetry of it's 17 kind of nice, but it was not one of my first choice -- 18 choices. 19 This would be more appropriate if we were doing 20 Dayton, Ohio convention of the tire or something like 21 that. 22 expresses the assembly line. I like number two as well. Not quite as Number three, I Number one, the innovation happened with It seems a little bit busy for me. I Number four, I didn't particularly like. It's not a bad design. I don't think it Number five was kind of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 132 1 okay, but I like other ones that did the same thing 2 better. 3 number one. 4 little busier than number one. 5 of one better. 6 on these. 7 an early car, I presume that's a Model T, but is it a 8 Model T first off? 9 accuracy of what a Model T looked like? 10 And number six was my second choice behind I think it does a good job, too. It's a I like the simplicity But I also have a technical question A number of the cars or the designs feature And has somebody checked it for So those are my preferences and my questions? 11 DR. BROWN: Joe? 12 MR. MENNA: John, this is Joe Menna. 13 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 14 committee, as with other coins and medals where we've 15 depicted vehicles from specific eras or various eras 16 on one coin rather, we try and capture the zeitgeist 17 and the feel of the cars or planes or whatever they 18 may be. 19 accurate to any specific model for reasons that Greg 20 Weinman can explain. 21 22 John and the rest of the We cannot depict specific vehicles, details MR. WEINMAN: two. Fundamentally, there are Number one, the government tries not to endorse www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 133 1 when there's not a specific charge to do so. 2 this isn't about Ford, isn't about GM, it isn't about 3 Oldsmobile. 4 to endorse one organization over another. 5 second one is there are actually sometimes 6 intellectual property considerations when it comes to 7 the design of certain very identifiable vehicles, for 8 example. 9 that is more generic. So we're not trying to -- we don't want And the For that reason, we try to find something 10 MR. SAUNDERS: 11 DR. BROWN: 12 And so Interesting points. Thank you so much. Mr. (inaudible) Kellen? 13 MR. HOARD: Thank you. This is Kellen 14 Hoard. I also liked -- well, what I did is, before 15 this meeting, I went and talked to some of my student 16 peers about the idea of the assembly line innovation 17 just to kind of bounce off what they thought of it. 18 The thing that kept coming up time and again for them 19 was that it wasn't just the actual automation, but 20 also, like our liaison said, about the people. 21 that's kind of what they thought of, was the people 22 who were involved in that, particularly in light of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 134 1 recent news out of the UAW. So I was really drawn 2 quite a bit to six, both on my own and as a 3 consequence of people that I spoke to really valuing 4 the people and being intrigued by the people in 5 addition to the machinery. 6 dynamic motion happening. 7 the assembly occurring quite well. 8 was very fluid. 9 then they're in the midst of doing something. I thought it shows kind of I thought it shows actually And I thought it It feels like it's happening, and I, like 10 Donald, was also somewhat drawn to three. I'm not 11 sure I'd rank it the highest, but I thought it was a 12 really quite interesting design. 13 concerned about the exact date of the cars in there 14 because to me, this is a continuing innovation. 15 not something that only happened for the older cars. 16 It is something that continues to be not only built 17 upon but continues to work as an innovation through 18 the 60s, 70s, into today. 19 the exact date of the cars because this is an 20 innovation that has lasted long beyond its original 21 kind of limited purpose there. 22 the two big ones for me. And I'm less It's So I'm less worried about And those are kind of I would probably not rank www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 135 1 two very highly. 2 to be, in contrast, number six, a very static image 3 where there's not much assembly occurring, and the man 4 almost looks kind of posed for a photo rather than 5 actually engaged in his work. 6 I wasn't quite as drawn to it. 7 Thank you. 8 9 As I've spoken about earlier, I find DR. BROWN: And so for that reason, That's it for me. Thank you so much. Dr. Fuller? 10 DR. FULLER: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 11 This is a really -- I'm sorry. This is Dr. Harcourt 12 Fuller. 13 think that most of the designs have great merit, and I 14 think that they portray very well, you know, the idea 15 of the assembly line. 16 If we could go to three, please -- 03. 17 about 03 is that when we think about the assembly 18 line, we -- I certainly haven't seen a design like 19 this that gives you essentially a bird's eye view of 20 what the assembly line looks like. 21 that show the assembly of the cars, right, they are 22 more detailed, right, and you get a close-up view of This is a really wonderful portfolio. I But let me agree with Donald. What I like The other ones www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 136 1 the assembly of the cars. But, you know, to me, 2 especially when April was discussing how the idea of 3 the assembly line came about, you know, by, you know, 4 looking at meat, you know, slaughterhouses, right? 5 think this is true to that, you know. 6 you that bird's eye view where you're seeing the 7 process and you're also seeing the people. 8 will give this high marks. 9 04, if I may. I It really gives And so I But I also like four -- And I know that this design is not 10 necessarily about the tire, right, but of course, the 11 tire is an integral part of the automotive mobile, 12 right? 13 coin, you know. 14 three dimensional. 15 so that's one that I like. 16 think this is a great portfolio. 17 liaison's preference. 18 four are my top preferences. 19 20 21 22 This is just a wonderful design to see on a It just almost looks like -- it looks It just really speaks to me. And But again, overall, I I also like six, the But again, I think three and DR. BROWN: Thank you. Thank you so much. Let's turn now to Dennis? MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to start by greeting our liaison. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Steven, And Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 137 1 you're never very far from American Coinage, and we 2 appreciate the work that you've done with the 3 stakeholder's program. 4 ANA, so it's very nice to know that you've been 5 involved with this program that we're working on 6 today. 7 actually reminded me of the Virginia Chesapeake Bay 8 Bridge Tunnel design. 9 work of draftsmanship. You're a valued member of the My eye was drawn to R-03 as well, Donald. It I think it's remarkable as a I'm not quite as convinced 10 that it would work well as a coin just because it is 11 such a small canvas. 12 combination of humanity and mechanized assembly that 13 we've talked about. 14 you. And I like R-06 because of that So R-06 has my support. 15 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 16 MR. BERNSTEIN: Thank Art? This is Arthur 17 Bernstein. I was attracted to design six that was the 18 preference of the liaison. 19 design three, to me it just shouts assembly line. 20 mean, you can't look at that whole confusion of stuff 21 going on and not think about what it's trying to 22 represent, an assembly line. But the more I looked at So I'm going to cast www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 138 1 significant points for design three. 2 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Mike? 3 MR. MORAN: This is Mike Moran. I went 4 through them and ranked them as to what they conveyed 5 to me in a message. 6 better. 7 both of motion and of process and was the most 8 effective in conveying to me the sense of the original 9 concept of the assembly line. 10 Two was a little But again, six, I thought, gave me a sense So that's where I'm going to go, six. 11 12 One was okay. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Turn out to Chris? 13 DR. CAPOZZOLA: All right. Chris 14 Capozzola. I'll be brief and just say that if we 15 acknowledge the input of the liaisons, I would pick 16 six over the others for the reasons of motion that 17 people addressed before. 18 the only person to speak up for three, but three 19 stopped me dead in my tracks when I saw it. 20 it was really fantastic. 21 century feel of it. 22 including the small scale of the human beings. I thought I was going to be I thought I liked the sort of mid- I liked the scale of it, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So I'd Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 139 1 like to, in part, hear from the liaisons about any 2 discussions they had about three if you would. 3 4 DR. BROWN: Mr. Bieda, do you want to respond to that? 5 MS. WARREN: You're muted, sir. 6 MR. BIEDA: Can you hear me? 7 DR. BROWN: Yes. 8 MS. WARREN: 9 MR. BIEDA: Yes. Actually, a lot of good 10 suggestions on here. As I said earlier, this is a 11 beautiful portfolio. All of these designs have some 12 very strong elements. 13 looking at some of the designs, I also because it does 14 activity and it shows a line from a perspective. 15 concern that when you edit broke down to the size 16 point, it's almost like not recognizable, which is the 17 issue that I think that kind of reminded me of an 18 electronic keyboard or something when I'm looking at 19 it and shrunk the actual size of a coin. 20 a traditional silver dollar size. 21 a much more powerful design. 22 looked at it when we shrunk it down that the workers I think when we're kind of The If this was I think it might be We're concerned that we www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 140 1 are almost indistinguishable and as the design in 2 itself. 3 think it's going to work really well in that small 4 size. (inaudible) 5 for it does remind me of something that the Fine Arts 6 Commission mentioned about. 7 that's right near the airport that people pass all the 8 time but it's a beautiful design, great logo and if we 9 were talking tires or something it would be even So while it's a beautiful design, I don't Again, like the tire design, except We have a (inaudible) 10 better. But it just doesn't show what I'm looking for 11 in assembly line distinction. 12 six. 13 you for your service on this Citizens Coin Advisory 14 Commission. 15 work that you've done and I appreciate -- it's 16 difficult (inaudible) that you have to make. 17 know, there's a couple of designs that you could use 18 small kink if they were kind of curious, but nobody 19 seemed to focus on number five design which is also a 20 pretty good design to start to show the progress on 21 the line and it's a very powerful design as well. 22 car and the line is shown. So I kind of go with I respect all of your opinions, want to thank I've been watching this for years and the You You know, again, we're www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 The Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 141 1 kind of caught in time with several of the top three 2 designs that invest in their earlier days. 3 think one of the difficulties, something from six 4 weeks is sort of subjective of a timeline where the 5 assembly line (inaudible) were looking at it from its 6 earliest days. 7 But I think the real reason that I go back to six is 8 it's the only design that really shows a sense of 9 workers you've got (inaudible) being lifting up the I don't We kind of looked at that on this. 10 car, you've got the line showing, you got several 11 workers in there. 12 show that interchange and that interaction between 13 the, you know, the line element of that, which, if you 14 look at (inaudible) 15 figures and everything a little easier to look like 16 the other ones. 17 And it's one part where you really maybe, the reason down to that DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. I must 18 confess that hearing comments from our colleagues I 19 lean towards the design that's favored by our liaison 20 for a couple of reasons. 21 of a phrase that one of our former members mentioned 22 about the tabletop test. One, it sort of reminds me If I think about having a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 142 1 coin on the tabletop and someone had asked me what 2 does that mean? 3 seem to me that the elements would be large enough to, 4 in fact, have a conversation. 5 lean in this direction is that from what the comments 6 and my colleagues have said about the involvement of 7 people. 8 that -- for that reason as attractive as design three 9 is on the planchette that we're going to see this, What does that design mean? It would The other reason that I Involvement of people is really critical. So 10 it's going to be so difficult to see them that you're 11 going to need a loop. 12 members of the public comments about the size of some 13 of our elements that they need a loop to be able to 14 discern them. 15 the direction of six as well. 16 John, do you have a question, comment? 17 And we've already had some So for that reason, I was leaning in MR. SAUNDERS: I see your hand up. No, I had a comment. I 18 want to second something Steven said earlier. 19 the assembly line is what we're celebrating here, but 20 the offshoot of the assembly line was the decision of 21 certain car makers to make sure that their workers 22 made enough money to buy one of their cars. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I mean, And I Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 143 1 think that's part of the innovation that we're 2 celebrating here. 3 feeling that we have to show workers as well as the 4 assembly line happening. 5 And so I think it just redoubles my DR. BROWN: Are there any additional 6 comments or motions from members at this time? 7 and Joe, did you have additional comments you'd like 8 to add? 9 MR. COSTELLO: 10 DR. BROWN: Mike I have none. Thank you. Hearing none. 11 The committee will now score the reverse candidate 12 designs for the 2025 -- 13 DR. FULLER: 14 DR. BROWN: 15 DR. FULLER: Mr. Chairman? I'm sorry? Harcourt? This is Dr. Fuller. 16 Please forgive me. 17 size of the size issue in number three? 18 words, will it be discernible? 19 people be discernible on a quarter? 20 dollar. 21 22 Can I ask Joe to opine about the MR. MENNA: In other Will the cars and the I'm sorry -- Yeah, this is Joe Menna. Dr. Harcourt, you're talking about the one with just www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 144 1 modern cars, mid-century cars -- three to seven -- 2 three rows. 3 artist's particular vision, but I don't want to sound 4 like I didn't do my job, but I don't think it would 5 read as well, let's say as number six. 6 like that. I believe, while the artist -- that's the Like not even close. 7 DR. FULLER: 8 DR. BROWN: 9 Let's put it Thank you. Appreciate it. And we will now score the reverse candidate designs for the 2025 American 10 Innovation $1 coin honoring innovation in Michigan. 11 Please provide your completed sheets to Greg, who will 12 then tally the scores and report the results. 13 take five minutes recess in order to get this 14 accomplished. We are recessed for five minutes. 15 (Off the record.) 16 DR. BROWN: 17 We can We are back. I recognize Greg Weinman. 18 MR. WEINMAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 19 Once again, with 10 members voting, that means the 20 score is out of a possible 30 points. 21 one received eight points. 22 12 points. M1 -- Michigan Design number two received Design number three received 15 points. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 145 1 Design four received three points. 2 received seven points and design six received 21 3 points, making it the high vote getter. 4 5 DR. BROWN: MR. HOARD: I would move that we adopt DR. BROWN: Is there a second on that design six. 8 9 Thank you so much Greg. Are there any motions at this point? 6 7 Design five motion? 10 DR. VAN ALFEN: Peter Van Alfen, 11 second. I would add a friendly amendment that the 12 spokes in the cars be modified to reflect accuracy. 13 MR. HOARD: That's friendly. 14 DR. BROWN: Any further conversation 15 regarding the motion on the table? 16 those in favor signify by saying, aye. 17 GROUP: 18 DR. BROWN: Hearing none. All Aye. All those opposed? 19 abstentions? 20 unanimous. 21 then all discussion on this program has been 22 concluded. Any By my hearing, that sounds to me to be Are there any further motions? If not, We'd like to really thank you, Judge www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 146 1 Bieda, for attending and giving us your insight. 2 not often that we hear from a fellow collector, so we 3 really appreciate your input that you've provided. 4 MS. WARREN: 5 MR. BIEDA: It's You're muted, sir. Thank you. Kind words, Dennis. It's been an 6 honor (inaudible) 7 your out there career. (inaudible) 8 you and (inaudible) 9 that you've done and frankly the artists and the folks at the Mint have been wonderful. 11 (inaudible) 13 Fun job. I envy really appreciate all the work 10 12 I appreciate DR. BROWN: So with that, Thank you so much, sir. Have a good remainder of the day. 14 MR. BIEDA: Thank you. You as well. 15 DR. BROWN: We will now move to the 16 last portfolio for the day, which is a review of the 17 reverse candidate designs for the 2025 Native American 18 $1 coin. 19 Mint's Office of Design Management, will introduce the 20 program and present the reverse candidate designs. 21 22 Once again, April Stafford, Chief of the MS. STAFFORD: Thank you so much. First, some background on this program. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Every year Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 147 1 since 2009, the United States Mints and issues a 2 golden-hued dollar coin that celebrates the important 3 contributions made by Indigenous Americans, who 4 include American Indians, Alaskan Natives and Native 5 Hawaiians. 6 depiction of Sacagawea and her infant son first used 7 in 2000. 8 Pukui, the first Native Hawaiian to be honored this 9 Public Law. The obverse of the coins retain the In 2025, the reverse will honor Mary Kawena In our work collecting recommendations 10 for themes, multiple congressional stakeholders 11 advocated for a theme celebrating and recognizing 12 Native Hawaiians. 13 among a list of prominent Hawaiian women, including 14 Edith Kenao Kanaka'ole, who were proposed for 15 inclusion in the American Women Quarters program. 16 Mary Kawena Pukui was a prominent Native Hawaiian 17 scholar, author, composer, and dancer whose 18 translations, compositions and ethnographic work have 19 sustained the Hawaiian language and culture for 20 generations. 21 rapidly being lost, Pukui worked to document the 22 stories and lifeways of the Hawaiian elders and Mary Kawena Pukui was specifically At a time when Hawaiian knowledge was www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 148 1 translated countless Hawaiian language primary source 2 materials through her career at the Bishop Museum in 3 Honolulu. 4 produced over 52 published titles, 150 songs and 5 chants, and countless other authoritative written 6 works that shared aspects of the Hawaiian language and 7 culture to the broader public. 8 the most comprehensive Hawaiian dictionaries to date, 9 as well as a collection of 2,941 Hawaiian proverbs As a result of her undertakings, Pukui She coauthored one of 10 sayings -- and sayings that continues to be a popular 11 text in Hawaii. 12 and in keeping with Hawaiian custom, she was raised by 13 her grandmother, who spoke to her only in Hawaiian and 14 taught her the traditions, rituals, and religion, 15 including the art of hula that she learned from her 16 elders. 17 classes were taught only in English. 18 speaking in Hawaiian was not permitted, she persisted 19 in keeping her language alive through sharing Hawaiian 20 lore and wisdom in her Native Hawaiian language with 21 her classmates. 22 the Bishop Museum, collaborating with scholars in an Pukui was born on April 20th, 1895, Pukui attended a Hawaiian seminary where Although Beginning in 1937, Pukui worked for www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 149 1 array of disciplines, resulting in notable 2 publications. 3 interviewed native Hawaiians who were fluent Hawaiian 4 language speakers, capturing their thoughts and wisdom 5 first in notes and later in audio recordings. 6 museum houses an extensive collection of her work, 7 including original music compositions, cultural 8 stories, histories, audio recordings and ethnographic 9 notes. 10 As a skilled translator, she A little bit about the designs. The All of 11 the candidate designs feature a depiction of Mary 12 Kawena Pukui and an inscription of her name, along 13 with the required inscriptions United States of 14 America and $1. 15 translates literally to "Look to the Source." 16 phrase itself is considered very evocative of Pukui's 17 life, work and legacy, as she was someone who was 18 constantly consulted for her expertise on various 19 aspects of Hawaiian knowledge. 20 symbolized in the candidate designs through the fruit, 21 leaves, and nuts of Hawaii's state tree, the Kukui. 22 The Kukui nut lei is an important Hawaiian cultural The Hawaiian inscription you'll see This Hawaiian knowledge is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 150 1 element that was worn by Pukui. We are so pleased to 2 have with us several liaisons. 3 representatives and I'll ask that they introduce 4 themselves. 5 the Smithsonian's National Museum of the American 6 Indian who focuses on native Hawaiian history and 7 culture. 8 introduce yourself and say a few words. We have several family And we also have a representative from So if I could invite first the family to 9 MS. WARREN: There's one on there. 10 MS. STAFFORD: 11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 12 Yes. He may be muted at the moment. 13 14 Pele? MS. WARREN: member is coming on. 15 Hold on. Another family Pele? MS. STAFFORD: Perhaps while the family 16 is looking at their settings, perhaps Pele, would you 17 like to say a few words? 18 MS. HARMAN: 19 MS. STAFFORD: 20 MS. HARMAN: 21 on earlier. 22 Aloha. I'm sorry for this. Oh, no worries. I was just trying to get Aloha (Speaks Hawaiian) from Hawaii. And Mohalo for having us here. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Our Ohana here Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 151 1 this morning to speak briefly about my great 2 grandmother. Can you hear me? 3 MS. STAFFORD: 4 MS. HARMAN: Yes. Okay. Thank you. We're very honored 5 to be considered -- our great grandmother to have been 6 considered (inaudible) 7 a coin. 8 this series today because a lot of people back in 9 Hawaii are celebrating L. K.'oko'a when our third one for this prestigious honor of And it comes at a very interesting date for 10 went around the world through different papers, 11 agreement signed, declarations of Independence. 12 so it's quite interesting that today is the day of the 13 hearing of my grandmother -- my great grandmother was 14 born under the Hawaiian flag. 15 advocate for all things Hawaiian but was also very 16 proud of her heritage from being American, from her 17 father having resided and been born in Salem, 18 Massachusetts. 19 people to really kind of navigate this time of great 20 change in Hawaii, our homeland. 21 everything that she did was her love of her people and 22 of knowledge and of educating others. And She was a staunch And so she served as a bridge for our And at the core of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And so we're Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 152 1 very, very honored and thank the committee and also 2 all the artists for the hard work that they put into 3 trying to depict what she meant -- not just what she 4 looked like, but what she meant to all Native 5 Hawaiians and also to those of her heritage from her 6 father's side (inaudible) of the world and her Salem, 7 Massachusetts side and so, Mohalo. 8 there's anything that you want me to answer, I can. 9 MS. STAFFORD: I'm very happy if Well, certainly after we 10 move through the candidate designs, we will definitely 11 have questions for you, so thank you. 12 much. 13 representative also here, Halena Kapuni-Reynolds. 14 Halena, could I ask you to say a few words? 15 All right. Thank you very And I see we have our Smithsonian MR. KAPUNI-REYNOLDS: Yes, of course. 16 Aloha kakahiaka. Good morning from Hawaii. My name 17 is Halena-Kapuni-Reynolds. 18 of Native Hawaiian History and Culture at the National 19 Museum of the American Indians. 20 so this was one of the first portfolios that I've been 21 working on completely following the launch of the 22 Edith Kenao Kanaka.ole quarter. I am the Associate Curator I started in April, So it's been a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 153 1 blessing in many ways to be able to work with the 2 ohana, the family on these coins and hopefully to 3 provide you folks with enough information to make a 4 sound decision regarding the design. 5 mentions, Pukui is a really prominent Hawaiian scholar 6 and author that is quite beloved and well known in the 7 community. 8 to really reintroduce her again to the next generation 9 to ensure that her work lives on and that we're As the brief And this quaint is really an opportunity 10 constantly engaging with the legacy that she leaves 11 behind. 12 with you folks today, and I look forward to the design 13 discussion. So I'll end there and it's great to be here 14 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you so much. And 15 again, we'll definitely come back to the family and to 16 Halena with questions as we move through. 17 look at our candidate designs now, and as well as 18 family representatives, our Smithsonian subject matter 19 expert. 20 congressional committees with which we work, and so I 21 will be noting their preferences as we move through 22 the portfolio. So we'll As you all know, we have three different So let's start with design one. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 154 1 MR. KAPUNI-REYNOLDS: Before we 2 continue with the portfolios, I do see that we have 3 two more of Pukui's family members that are ready to 4 introduce themselves. Dodie? 5 MS. BROWNE: Hi. Aloha. 6 MR. KAPUNI-REYNOLDS: Maybe if you want 7 to, they're going to start talking about the brief. 8 So if you'd like to introduce yourself, and then 9 La'akea, we'll jump back to you, okay? 10 MS. BROWNE: 11 DR. BROWN: 12 MS. BROWNE: Can you hear me? Yes. Okay. Aloha. I'm Dodie 13 Brown. 14 this is such a wonderful honor, and I appreciate what 15 you are all doing for her. 16 17 20 Mohalo. MR. KAPUNI-REYNOLDS: Dodie. 18 19 I am a granddaughter of Mary Kawena Pukui, and Thank you, And La'akea? MS. WARREN: You're muted again. There you go. MR. SUGANUMA: Okay. Yeah. Being 21 raised from infancy by my grandmother. 22 hard she worked to preserve her culture and her www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I know how Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 155 1 language, and she would shy away from all the 2 accolades and awards and accepting graciously. 3 know in her heart all she wanted to know is that her 4 work made a difference. 5 has, and it continues to every day. 6 very thankful that we were able to recognize her and 7 I'm thankful to my daughter for all the hard work she 8 did while I was absent. 9 But I And it certainly did, and it So again, we're Thank you. MS. STAFFORD: Okay. Thank you so 10 much. So we will move through the candidate design, 11 starting with design 1. 12 the Congressional Native American Caucus of the House 13 of Representatives as a preference. 14 identified also by the Congressional Native American 15 Caucus of the House of Representatives as a secondary 16 preference. 17 of Mary Kawena Pukui as well as the recommendation by 18 the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts. 19 preference by the National Congress of the American 20 Indians and the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs. This design was identified by Design 1A was Design 1B was a preference of the family Design 1C was a 21 Moving on, we have Design 2, which was 22 also a preference of the family of Mary Kawena Pukui, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 156 1 a secondary preference of the National Congress of the 2 American Indian and the Senate Committee on Indian 3 Affairs. 4 family as well as a secondary preference of the Senate 5 Committee on Indian Affairs. 6 And that concludes the candidate designs. 7 @A, 2B, 3, 4, another preference of the DR. BROWN: And finally, design 4A. Thank you so much. And we 8 want to really thank the family for joining with us to 9 help us in this very intriguing yet exciting 10 exploration of these designs before us. 11 committee, are there any technical or legal questions 12 that you may have about this program? 13 And we will begin our consideration. 14 none other than, Art. 15 MR. BERNSTEIN: To the Hearing none. We'll begin with This is Arthur 16 Bernstein and there are a lot of preferences we've 17 heard. 18 family choice of Design 2. 19 granddaughter's comment about appreciating the 20 simplicity and the inclusion of the Bishop Museum, 21 which the honoree was so closely associated. 22 I think the preference I lean towards is the DR. BROWN: And I note the Mike? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 157 1 MR. MORAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. This 2 is Mike Moran. I was initially attracted to the 3 series that starts with image number one and I have 4 some concerns as to how this thing would coin up 5 because there is a lot of background in there as to 6 whether it will distort it or not. 7 something that I've struggled with since I first 8 started studying the portfolio and I have not answered 9 it for myself yet. And that's Then I go to one that nobody 10 really mentioned at all, 4A. 11 simplicity. 12 it with satisfactory negative space. 13 out if you go back to 4, the stack of books behind her 14 is looking to the left, does absolutely nothing for 15 the design and just actually clutters. 16 probably the one in the portfolio that I struggled 17 with the most because usually something comes right 18 out, hits me, and I go for it. It captures the essence of her and does 19 20 21 22 And I like 4A for its DR. BROWN: I would point This one was This one, not really. Thank you so much. Turn now to Donald> MR. SCARINCI: I really liked 1, and I'm kind of listening to what Mike is saying about 4A. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 158 1 I can see what Mike likes about 4A. You know, I like 2 the way her shirt drapes over the circle. 3 former member would have said that if she were still 4 here today, our sculptor member, so I like that. 5 I also, you know, and I also have to say, I kind of 6 like the fact that she's writing on a wall. 7 designs, you know, but I'm really intrigued by 1 and 8 1A as between the two of them, you know, 1 is -- 1 9 really, really, I think would make a very interesting I think our And The other 10 coin design for this series. Whereas 4A would be more 11 same ole, same ole, you know, done. 12 I mean, a good design -- 13 not a bad design. 14 preference is to be a little more bold with the 15 design. 16 number 1 is my trifling. 17 you know, I just, I wouldn't do 1C. 18 with the house. 19 know. 20 plant in the background. 21 any of the others as being possibilities. 22 it's really between 1 and 4. Not a bad design. it's a good design. It's a good design, right? It's But my And, you know, I think as between the two, The others in the portfolio, I wouldn't do 2 I think it's just too much stuff, you The same thing with the, you know, with the You know, I just don't see I think That's my pick. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 159 1 2 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Let's turn now to Peter? 3 DR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 4 It's Peter Van Alfen. 5 as well. 6 shares a lot of similarities. 7 question for the family why it is that they would have 8 preference for 1B over, say, number 1? 9 could address that. 10 11 I'm very attracted to 1 and 1A This whole group of number 1, obviously, And I do have a If one of you I'm just curious to know why it is that you find this more compelling. MS. HARMAN: So I can address that. 12 Again, so this has been a steep learning curve for us 13 so -- initially, I think when we were presented with 14 the first set of designs, we were not aware -- there 15 were certain elements from each of the designs that we 16 liked, but I didn't quite understand that each one was 17 done by a different artist. 18 to mix and match. 19 first -- the number 1 submissions were that this is 20 the one that looks most like my great grandmother. 21 And so her likeness was very much captured the way 22 that she would have worn her hair with the hibiscus And so it's not possible What we loved about all the -- the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 160 1 flower, with her family. Her property in Oahu is 2 known for tourists but would have gone by her property 3 on Birch Street to look at her beautiful hibiscus 4 flowers that she was very proud of. 5 all of those elements. 6 so, I think this was an attempt to kind of change and 7 then have the United States of America underneath and 8 just appear but that was before we understood what the 9 process was about the artistry that went into each of And so we liked And then, what we -- yeah, and 10 the submissions and that they were done. 11 suggestion was kind of trying to do (inaudible) kind 12 of thing with different elements of different designs, 13 and so it would still be -- a preference, would be 1A, 14 1B. Yes. That's all. 15 16 So our DR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you. All right. Thank you very much. 17 DR. BROWN: Thank you. 18 MR. SAUNDERS: John? This is John Saunders. 19 Dr. Brown, thank you. I like the 1 series, but I 20 think it looks better on paper than it would in a 21 coin. 22 on the coin. I'm concerned with the hand being too prominent I mean, it's beautiful. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 But again, I'm Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 161 1 not sure how it would coin up. So my preference went 2 to the two series based on my thoughts there. 3 all three of the two series. 4 different. 5 as the Bishop Museum because, you know, we show her 6 with a hibiscus in her hair. 7 know, I love the hibiscus flowers. 8 with a hibiscus in her hair is, you know, typically 9 Hawaiian. I like They're not that much I kind of like the hibiscus almost as well I've always thought, you A Hawaiian girl So I like that one almost as well. But I'm 10 going to go with my first voice to go along with the 11 family and go with one with Bishop Museum with a 12 hibiscus and a very close second. 13 I wasn't in love with. 14 better, but I like the earlier designs better. 15 16 Three, I didn't -- Between 4 and 4A, I like 4A DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. MR. HOARD: Thank you. Turn now to, Kellen? 17 This is Kellen 18 Hoard. I was a big supporter of the 1 series as well. 19 And I liked all the different -- actually, all four of 20 the ones in the 1 series. 21 towards 1 or 1C. 22 lei. But I would tend either The reason being that 1A lacks the And I would like to get, actually, both those www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 162 1 elements in there. 2 lei in 1A and then, 1B, I know it was raised in a 3 concern in the descriptions by I think it was one of 4 the congressional committees that she was both holding 5 it and wearing it, and they didn't like that so much. 6 So I like her either wearing or holding it in 1 or 1C, 7 and I find that both of those designs quite excellent. 8 So that's about it for me. 9 10 She's not wearing or holding the DR. BROWN: Thank you. Thank you so much. Let's turn out to, Harcourt? 11 DR. FULLER: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 12 This is Dr. Harcourt Fuller. I also like the 1 13 series. 14 say so, of the Jovita Idar quarters and just gives me 15 the same uniqueness, the same feel. 16 to see if my colleagues would agree with that 17 assessment. But I like the 1 series. 18 4A, please? Yes. 19 that she's, you know, she's writing with the pen. 20 think that's quite unique. 21 design as well, even though it is a bit traditional in 22 terms of a coin design. You know, the 1 series reminds me, if I may I also like 4A. And I'm curious Can we go to I like the fact I You know, she pops in this But I like how she's writing www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 163 1 with the pen. 2 you go -- is that 12? 3 them. 4 sorry. 5 Not necessarily for the design, but for the lettering. 6 I think that when you look at this coin, you can 7 clearly see her name and her name pops in this one, 8 you know, so I like that. 9 series. 10 11 And there was a-- and let's see. can Let me see. There's one of If you could -- yes, this one right here. Go back. Yes. I'm I do like this one as well. But again, I like the 1 Thanks. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Let's turn out to, Dennis? 12 MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Dr. Brown. And 13 thank you to the family and our liaisons for your 14 insight and sharing your thoughts. 15 the artist of group 1 through 1C. 16 beautiful portrait, and I think the entire composition 17 is very well done. 18 three-inch silver medal. 19 design. 20 to the designs where she is shown either actively 21 writing or pausing the active writing. 22 us with group 2 and group 4. I want to praise I think this is a I would love to see this on a It's just a remarkable However, as a writer myself, I was more drawn So that leaves The two designs in group www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 164 1 4 reminded me of the 2017 Sequoia Native American $1 2 with the invention of the Native American syllabary, 3 where he is actually drawing on the coin as well. 4 I think that's a neat effect. 5 in general. 6 They're nice portraits. 7 written communication. 8 the Bishop Museum. 9 particular has not only family buy in, but also is a But I do prefer group 2 I think these are nice compositions. They have her in the act of And I like the inclusion of And I know that design 2 in 10 preference of two of our Senate liaisons. 11 strongly in favor of design 2. 12 13 So DR. BROWN: So I'm Thank you, Dr. Brown. Thank you so much. Turn now to, Chris? 14 DR. CAPOZZOLA: All right. Thanks, 15 everyone. Just briefly, series 1, I shared the 16 enthusiasm for it, but also just the hesitation that 17 it just seemed a bit busy. 18 back, which I know represent water, might not come 19 through clearly enough there. 20 simplicity to 4A, you know, for the work that this 21 coin would need to do. 22 choice that the CCAC could make, and that doesn't You know, the lines on the There is a certain It's the easiest and safest www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 165 1 necessarily make it the wrong choice, but, you know, 2 it certainly gets, in some ways, the work done. 3 be perfectly happy with 2 as well. 4 the preference is for 2 at the Bishop Museum, that 5 would be my preference in the 2 series. 6 one comment and two questions -- or one comment and 7 one question. 8 example, at 4A, I want us to spend a little bit of 9 time thinking about fonts and ways in which fonts of I'd And then again, if I did have The comment is about if you look, for 10 the United States of America appear here. And then, 11 "N.n. I Ke Kumu" and I want to make sure we're not 12 exoticizing her Native American identity by 13 exoticizing the fonts in certain ways. 14 that happens in some of the other designs as well. 15 And think about, frankly, I'd love to see United 16 States of America in the same font as "N.n. I Ke 17 Kumu". 18 about translation. 19 translation, "Look to The Source," and some do not. 20 And the tension here is that, you know, a coin is a 21 teachable moment. 22 language. And I think And then the question for the liaisons is Some of the designs include the It's a chance to teach the Hawaiian On the other hand, the question is, you www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 166 1 know, it also reiterates the idea that Hawaiian is a 2 foreign language rather than, you know, part of 3 America's heritage. 4 any preference among the liaisons or family members 5 about the translation question. 6 And just wondering if you have MS. HARMAN: Yes, if I could chime in 7 again. So I am in a lot of ways trying to kind of 8 carry on like great grandmother's footsteps. 9 currently teach -- my 22nd year teaching at Hawaii I 10 (inaudible) School. And so this is something that we 11 talked about as a family (inaudible) my father, 12 (inaudible) and my sisters as well. 13 important that -- we felt like we didn't want to have 14 the translation because not just that it made it a 15 little busier looking. 16 I feel -- we felt that would come out in the 17 literature that accompanies the coin itself. 18 the website at the U.S. Mint, that information that 19 would be brought out to the general public could have 20 a deeper kind of conversation about the status of 21 native languages all over the world and especially our 22 unique language. It's very But that's a conversation that And all And so we felt that, you know, that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 167 1 would cause people to pause and ask questions about, I 2 wonder what this said, and then dive deeper into what 3 our language, how to learn our language. 4 read the letters for that when accompanying it, rather 5 than just have the point itself and have the 6 translation right there. 7 that did not have the translation. 8 think, why the subsequent designs in the 1 series was 9 to add on these thoughts again, and I just want to -- And I'll So we prefer the designs And that was, I 10 well, actually, I'll wait for the -- so that's that. 11 Yeah. No translation would be our preference. 12 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 13 DR. BROWN: Thank you. Thank you so much and we 14 really appreciate it. 15 comments you'd like to offer based on what you've 16 heard from the committee? 17 Do you have any further MS. HARLAN: Yes. So -- and maybe my 18 dad and my aunt would also thank you so much for 19 taking into consideration the ideas of the 20 preferences. 21 series -- the 1 series, any of the designs. 22 is where we kind of defer to the expertise of people. And I want to just share so the whole 1A www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And this Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 168 1 All the things that you thought of for exactly what 2 you had spoken about in (inaudible) as far as how is 3 it going to look translating onto a coin with all the 4 background that's going on and, you know, all the 5 business of it all. 6 translation. 7 ask ourselves as well. 8 1 design and the number 4 were actually the present of 9 my father. And then can we take off the And so these are all questions that we The whole series of the number So you have on the call two grandchildren 10 and Auntie Dodie is her preference, was the number 2 11 design series. 12 sisters, we kind of leaned more towards the number 1 13 design as well as the number 4 because of her -- the 14 likeness to what our great grandmother not only looked 15 like, but what she did. 16 had said, (inaudible) writing was perfected and 17 preserving all of this knowledge for us. 18 would be our, I think -- I don't know. 19 you wanted to say something as well. 20 And then my father and myself and our so writing, like, somebody MR. SUGANUMA: And so, that I'm done if I just wanted to add 21 that they're all beautiful. And a little bit about 22 the significance of the hibiscus. Where we lived in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 169 1 Honolulu, on the corner of Birch and Elm Street, the 2 house was surrounded by hibiscus. 3 hibiscus that existed. 4 to Waikiki would swing into this little area and go 5 right by our house to show the tourists all the 6 beautiful hibiscuses. 7 prominent role, you know, in the place where we grew 8 up. 9 "N.n. I Ke Kumu", it's a good way to learn a little Every type of In fact, tour buses on the way So the hibiscus plays a Also, 10 bit about Hawaiian, but it's very significant because 11 "N.n. I Ke Kumu" means to look at the source. 12 it's a phrase that used a lot today after she wrote 13 that book. 14 our history, about our thinking, and about our 15 culture, you know, they're also look to the source. 16 And it's very, very important, I think, for people to 17 know, "N.n. I Ke Kumu" Mohalo. 18 And Because when people have questions about MS. HARMAN: Yes. Thank you. So you can see the 19 family has even that art. So you have a very daunting 20 task because different branches had different 21 preferences and then, Auntie Dodie, I don't know if 22 you want to talk about the number 2 design, which was www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 170 1 your preference. 2 MS. BROWNE: Well, my take on it is is 3 my grandmother was a very simple person. She lived 4 with us. 5 about the museum, and she felt very strongly that she 6 would not have been able to do what she did without 7 the support of the museum. 8 I think, to me, it would be nice to include the 9 museum. I was an only child, so she always talked It gave her direction, and She was a simple person. She didn't like a 10 lot of designs, color, if you remember the time frame, 11 she was born in 1895. 12 calicos, which were small prints for, always made by - 13 - we had a wonderful seamstress that would make her 14 mu'umu'u and she always chose things that were simple, 15 simple design, simple taste. 16 what came through on that particular coin with the 17 museum, is it's very simplistic. 18 very much her. 19 that one. 20 Her preferences were always And to me, and that was And that was, to me, That's why that was -- I was drawn to DR. BROWN: So you have -- we really 21 appreciate the different views of the family. 22 have made an important point that you made the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And you Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 171 1 challenge even more substantial for us because we 2 typically like to lean in the direction of the family. 3 We appreciate that, but I'm going to turn it over to 4 some of my colleagues because the more that we can 5 sort of narrow this, the better, and the stronger is 6 our recommendation. 7 Donald? MR. SCARINCI: Thank you so much for, 8 you know, explaining your different views. And I, you 9 know, and I -- and I'm looking at this a little 10 differently now. 11 about am I correct that the -- in 01 in the 4 series, 12 all by the same artist, by the way, in the 4 series, 13 is this going to be incuse? 14 America and the, you know, and the motto and 15 everything going to be incuse in the coin with the 16 portrait, you know, kind of, jutting out of that 17 incuse? 18 19 And I'd like to ask Joe a question Is the United States of Is that the way you're envisioning it? MR. MENNA: I'm not envisioning it. The artist -- I don't mean that disrespectful. 20 MR. SCARINCI: 21 MR. MENNA: 22 is Joseph Menna. No. The way the artist -- this The way the artist is envisioning it www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 172 1 is as presented, the text would be necessarily 2 highest. 3 texture could not be textured field, that would also 4 be a raised layer. 5 would be the part that is polished. 6 series, number 4 provides greater -- the 3 or 4 7 provide a greater opportunity for success. The swirls that it's on after that, the And the white behind that, that 8 MS. STAFFORD: 9 MR. MENNA: I think in this It's 1 -- I mean, 1B and 1C rather 10 provide a greater opportunity for success because of 11 the clarity. 12 behind her neck that's raised. 13 more of those borders. 14 layer that is raised, which is textured. 15 have outlines, but it would be raised, and that will 16 provide more opportunity for polish. 17 there's more logic to the swirls, yet it does not 18 detract from their dynamic quality. 19 perspective, I'm not trying to influence anybody or 20 invalidate anybody. 21 22 There's an implied border that goes There's only a few Then we see the secondary MR. SCARINCI: No. It doesn't And I think From my And the United States of America doesn't appear on the obverse, so www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 173 1 this is the only place it's going to appear. 2 MR. MENNA: Yes, sir. 3 MR. SCARINCI: I, you know, I like the 4 elegance of the portrait, you know, by the artist who 5 did the first series. 6 number -- and I could see why you like number 1B, you 7 know, I mean, the portrait is nice. 8 Joe. 9 conclusion after listening to everything is, you know, And I can see why you like I think this stands out. And I agree with And I guess my 10 if we went with 1B, it's a coin that would stand out 11 on a reverse as opposed to, you know, as opposed to 12 4A, which is just like every other coin in the series. 13 DR. BROWN: So it seems to me -- 14 MS. HARMAN: And if I can interject 15 really quickly. So the 1B, I think that was our 16 attempt after we saw the initial designs that were 17 presented, and that was our attempt to kind of 18 simplify like she said. 19 going on, as beautiful as the design was, and it 20 really does stand out. 21 a little bit and then include more elements. 22 that's why we asked for her dress to be shown as well You know, there was a lot We wanted it to be simplified www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 174 1 as a lei, because these are -- although the design 2 might not have been something that she would have 3 necessarily chosen, it's not quite a (inaudible) but 4 it is our -- something that all of our kupuna, all of 5 our ancestors were very proudly our traditional 6 garment. 7 tree of Hawaii. 8 is on the second part of the second part, the second 9 draft that we were sent. And so, with a lei as well, which is a state The state tree -- kukui and so this That was kind of our 10 attempt. 11 standpoint how it would translate into a coin and how 12 this is different, you know, the raised lettering and 13 all of that would work out to stand out. 14 really like the way that she's looking off into the 15 distance. 16 dignity of "N.n. I Ke Kumu" looking to the source and 17 off into the distance rather than straight head on at 18 us. 19 20 21 22 So I really do appreciate hearing from your And we just And with all her knowledge, but also her DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Unless any committee members -- Kellen? MR. HOARD: I just have one quick question if I could? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 175 1 DR. BROWN: Please. 2 MR. HOARD: This is Kellen Hoard. I 3 find myself more and more drawn to, you know, 1B and 4 1C in terms of clarity on the coin, in terms of the 5 likeness, like we've discussed, in terms of the 6 symbolism, in terms of the language, but without the 7 translation. 8 I'm wondering from the family if they could speak to 9 1B versus 1C, because both of the Senate committees, I I find myself just really drawn to it. 10 believe, were concerned about the lei being in the 11 hand and on the neck. 12 there's a preference in the family, whether the fruit 13 be more clear, whether they're worried about the 14 duplication or whether they're okay with kind of the 15 1B words in both locations, whether they had concerns 16 with clutter or with appearance or any other thing, 17 what the distinction was for the family. 18 And I didn't know whether MS. HARMAN: I can kind of -- just 19 because -- that was my -- so, I just have to Mohalo, 20 Roger, for, you know, just kind of walking us through 21 this whole process. 22 shown, I actually had concerns about that because this So the way that the hand is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 176 1 is not like a traditional gesture that we would have 2 had. 3 artist perspective, and then also, I think, previous 4 points, there's some kind of uniformity to the gesture 5 itself. 6 important. 7 although multi lines are very similar, having the lei 8 in her hand and then also on her neck would have been 9 our preference, but it's not a very strong, strong And so it was a (inaudible) strange from an And so having something in her hand was very I think the only difference between 10 preference. 11 anyone, but the tool that's in her hand, it kind of 12 reminded us of, like, a good part of (inaudible) that 13 was like, I don't know about the tool as opposed to 14 just the way that it looked, and I don't know how that 15 would translate on a coin. 16 something was a little rather than (inaudible) in her 17 hand. 18 And the only reason I'm sorry if I offend DR. BROWN: But -- and so that was why Thank you so much. Let's 19 do this, my colleagues let's, in fact, score issues, 20 and then let's see if that gives us any further 21 clarity about the next step. 22 five minutes to scoring that will be completed by Greg So we're going to take www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 177 1 Weinman. And then he will report the results to us. 2 3 MS. WARREN: So we recess for five minutes. 4 (Off the record.) 5 DR. BROWN: Okay. We are back. I now 6 recognize Greg Weinman, who will present to us the 7 results. 8 MR. WEINMAN: Once again, out of the 10 9 members scoring, the high possible score is a 30. 10 That in mind, design number 1 received 19 points. 11 Design 1A received 12. 12 which is a very close top scoring design. 13 received 17 points. 14 received four points. 15 4 received 4. 16 really very close between 1 and 1B, 19 and 20 points, 17 respectively, followed by 1C with 17. 18 19 Design 1B received 20 points, 02 received 13 points. 2B received 7. And 4A received 14. DR. BROWN: Design 1C 2A 3 received 2. So, once again, Thank you, Greg. Are there any motions from the committee? 20 DR. VAN ALFEN: This is Peter Van 21 Alfen. I would move that we adopt 1B as the reverse 22 for this as is it seems to align with the family's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 178 1 preferences and with the CFA as well. 2 3 MR. BERNSTEIN: seconds. 4 DR. BROWN: Okay. 5 the motion? 6 favor signify by saying, aye. Hearing none. 7 GROUP: 8 DR. BROWN: 9 10 Arthur Bernstein abstentions? Any discussion on Seeing none. All those in Aye. Any opposed? Any By my hearing, it sounds like that it is a much (inaudible) carried unanimously. 11 I would like to take this time to 12 really thank the family. 13 appreciate how the family, particularly when we get 14 together. 15 eye to eye on everything. 16 that you were courageous enough to share with us the 17 differences that you had in terms of this program. 18 we'd like to take this moment to thank you for your 19 attending and participation in this discussion. 20 21 22 We can understand can There may be times when we don't always see So we appreciate the fact MS. HARMAN: (inaudible) to the MS. BROWNE: (inaudible) committee. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Take care. So Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 179 1 Thank you so much. 2 Aloha. DR. BROWN: Okay. All right. So this 3 is the last order of business for today's session. I 4 just would like to take a few moments to share some 5 comments. 6 Advisory Committee for two consecutive one-year terms 7 was a tremendous honor and privilege. 8 with the committee comprised of experts from various 9 fields, including artists, historians and collectors, Serving as chair of the Citizens Coinage Collaborating 10 allow for a rich and diverse exchange of ideas. The 11 responsibility to provide recommendations to the 12 Secretary of Treasurer on coin and medal designs 13 involved balancing historical significance with 14 cultural representation and artistic innovation. 15 experience not only deepened my appreciation of the 16 importance of coins and medals in preserving and 17 reflecting national heritage, but also underscored the 18 significance of public engagement in the storytelling 19 of the nation's coinage on one of the smallest 20 (inaudible). 21 the CCAC, the phenomenal Mint staff, our liaisons, our 22 artists, and the public for their attendance today and This I would again like to thank members of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 180 1 to let them know I'm fully, really appreciative of 2 what you have done and supported the CCAC over these 3 last two years. 4 The next public meeting will be in 2024 5 and announced in the Federal Register. 6 there is a motion to adjourn. 7 MR. SCARINCI: I now ask if Dr. Brown, before a 8 motion to adjourn, I'd like to say something. 9 you going to say something? 10 DR. VAN ALFEN: 11 MR. SCARINCI: Were I was but go ahead. So, I mean, I would like 12 to speak personally to those of you who are in the 13 selection process for CCAC members. 14 to share with you something rather personal. 15 know, for three-and-a-half years during the Pandemic, 16 I ran the law firm operating remotely and it was the 17 most challenging experience of my life. 18 none. 19 this Pandemic, Larry, you know, was, you know, more 20 heavily engaged than any other member that I've known 21 since 2007. 22 -- I never got a call from a chairman before. And I would like I, you Second to And, you know, for the last, you know, during And when I first became a member, he was www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 You Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 181 1 know, but -- 2 DR. BROWN: Never harassed. 3 MR. SCARINCI: Never harassed. And, 4 you know, the caring and the attention that he has 5 paid to other collectors who've asked questions. 6 his concern for making sure that everyone was touched 7 and his concern for making sure that as we changed 8 members on this committee throughout the Pandemic and 9 we hardly knew each other because we never met in And 10 person until recently, you know, it was Larry -- it 11 was Larry Brown who kept us all together as a group. 12 And I would hate to see, you know, I think one thing, 13 you know, we really need as a committee, as a CCAC, is 14 some cohesiveness and continuity. 15 this Pandemic, we're not there yet, right? 16 people are still working from home, you know, in my 17 law firm and everywhere else, and we're not there yet. 18 And I think having continuity on this committee 19 creates cohesiveness. 20 personally, I want to implore any of you who I don't 21 have any idea what the process is or who's involved in 22 it. And coming out of I mean, And I just wanted to say You know, it's a mystery to me. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 But, you know, Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 182 1 whatever criteria you're using to consider appointing 2 members, I really like you to give a strong, hard look 3 to Dr. Brown and the contributions he's made 4 throughout the most difficult time, certainly of my 5 life, and I think probably most of you. 6 even more difficult having new members join us, you 7 know, every four years during the same period. 8 just want to make a personal appeal to whoever is 9 involved in this process to reappoint him. 10 DR. VAN ALFEN: And it was So I Thank you. And to that, I would 11 just like to say I think we owe Dr. Brown a hearty 12 round of applause for doing such a fantastic job in 13 the last couple of years as Chair. 14 MR. MORAN: Before you get in, I want 15 to add my two cents in on this. And, Donald, I highly 16 concur with everything you've said. 17 a friend. 18 and he always listens to me. 19 that he's been an excellent leader, and we could use 20 four more years of his participation on this committee 21 and his leadership on this committee from whether it's 22 a chair position or a voting member position. I consider Larry We've had many conversations on the phone, But no, I really think www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I'd Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 183 1 like to see him have another term. 2 3 DR. BROWN: Folks, listen, I did not open that door for the sake of -- Harcourt? 4 5 Okay. DR. FULLER: I believe I have my hand up. 6 DR. BROWN: 7 DR. FULLER: That, you do. And folks, please forgive 8 me also for I know you're anxious to get home, but 9 please, I also need to weigh in. I appreciate Dr. 10 Brown's service, and particularly, as a military man 11 as well, because one thing I appreciate about Dr. 12 Brown is, when he's at the helm, I have a lot of 13 confidence. 14 airplane or you're taking a cruise, and you know that 15 the person at the helm is capable. 16 I have a lot of confidence. 17 he runs a meeting, it's precise, you know, and it's 18 just -- again, the word that comes to mind is capable 19 and confident. 20 inspiring as well. 21 said, you call folks, you really care about people's 22 opinions. You know, it's like when you're on an They listen. And If you guys look at how And I want to say that you're very You -- as one of our colleagues And that is something that we have to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 184 1 commend because there are leaders that don't listen to 2 other folks. 3 colleagues, and again, I appreciate you. 4 a variety of levels you represent a lot to a lot of 5 people, and I think that, you know, since, I mean, I 6 think, we've had a great run with respect to the 7 diversity of ideas, of individuals, of thought, of 8 designs with you at the helm. 9 only do I appreciate you, but I appreciate everyone You're very respectful of your Certainly on And just finally, not 10 who has served on the CCAC and everyone who continues 11 to serve. 12 Thank you. MR. MENNA: As an observer, not as my 13 current position, but as someone who's been in the 14 audience for almost 20 years of this stuff. 15 coolest thing, Dr. Brown is just an incredible 16 gentleman, a great person, but I've never seen a 17 chairperson actively solicit make sure everybody was 18 heard and go back and double back and double back. 19 is the most egalitarian person to sit in that chair in 20 the 20 years that I -- nearly 20 years that I've been 21 here. 22 DR. BROWN: The Folks, I think we have a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 He Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 185 1 motion on the table. 2 Second. DR. VAN ALFEN: second. I'll second. All right. I'll Peter Van Alfen. 5 DR. BROWN: 6 GROUP: 7 DR. BROWN: 8 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 9 Aye. Okay. 3 4 All those in favor? All those in favor, aye. Aye. Opposed, nay. Too bad. if you do -- 10 DR. BROWN: We are adjourned. 11 (Whereupon, at 2:32 p.m., the 12 proceeding was concluded.) 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Even Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 186 1 2 CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC I, MATTHEW YANCEY, the officer before whom 3 the foregoing proceedings were taken, do hereby 4 certify that any witness(es) in the foregoing 5 proceedings, prior to testifying, were duly sworn; 6 that the proceedings were recorded by me and 7 thereafter reduced to typewriting by a qualified 8 transcriptionist; that said digital audio recording of 9 said proceedings are a true and accurate record to the 10 best of my knowledge, skills, and ability; that I am 11 neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any 12 of the parties to the action in which this was taken; 13 and, further, that I am not a relative or employee of 14 any counsel or attorney employed by the parties 15 hereto, nor financially or otherwise interested in the 16 outcome of this action. 17 18 19 <%29511,Signature%> 20 MATTHEW YANCEY Notary Public in and for the 21 DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 28, 2023 Page 187 1 2 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER I, SONYA LEDANSKI HYDE, do hereby certify 3 that this transcript was prepared from the digital 4 audio recording of the foregoing proceeding, that said 5 transcript is a true and accurate record of the 6 proceedings to the best of my knowledge, skills, and 7 ability; that I am neither counsel for, related to, 8 nor employed by any of the parties to the action in 9 which this was taken; and, further, that I am not a 10 relative or employee of any counsel or attorney 11 employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or 12 otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. 13 14 15 <%12151,Signature%> 16 SONYA LEDANSKI HYDE 17 18 19 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting [01 - 1st] 0 01 35:20 36:7 39:13 40:3 51:4,5,21 58:17 96:3,18 171:11 01a 96:19 02 51:3,21 53:5 53:18 58:1,10 58:17 60:15,17 61:2,7,17,21 61:22 63:8,19 96:19 105:6 114:16 177:13 03 96:19 135:16,17 137:6 04 20:18 22:6 57:20 58:10,10 58:18 61:5,18 61:21,21 62:14 63:11 96:5,20 104:8 105:7,9 107:20 112:2 116:8 136:9 06 20:10 96:16 104:1 128:1 137:11,13 07 96:16 07a 96:20 07b 97:11 08b 97:11 1 1 6:19 7:3,6 9:17,20 10:20 24:22 36:16 37:1 39:14 November 28, 2023 Page 1 40:3,18 67:4 70:18,19,22 72:10 125:2 144:10 146:18 149:14 155:11 157:21 158:7,8 158:8,16,22 159:4,5,8,19 160:19 161:18 161:20,21 162:6,12,13,17 163:8,15 164:1 164:15 167:8 167:21 168:8 168:12 172:8 177:10,16 1.1 76:10 1.1. 76:10 1.4 13:16 1.6 76:4 10 17:3 35:18 67:14 144:19 177:8 100 72:9 98:15 10th 109:10 11 17:3 29:16 35:18 115-197 41:2 117-132 90:16 11:45 123:15 11th 13:1,2 12 93:20 95:16 126:8 144:22 163:2 177:11 12151 187:15 13 17:4,4 19:15 20:3,4,11,12 20:13,19 22:11 22:13 25:20 29:22 31:16 35:15,19 67:20 177:13 130th 70:20 14 17:4,4,5 19:15 20:3,4,6 20:11 22:11,11 22:13 23:17 24:21 25:15,21 26:1 27:3 29:22 31:16 35:19,21 36:7 36:17 37:1,17 37:20 38:20 39:13,16 40:4 177:15 15 70:18 72:2,3 144:22 150 148:4 16 67:16 17 35:19 177:13,17 1700s 90:21 1792 69:22 1794 70:18,21 71:2,7,13,22 72:4,4,7,19 73:18 75:22 78:15,16 80:8 80:20 81:7 84:3 1895 148:11 170:11 19 43:9 48:10 48:14 56:16 71:6 177:10,16 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 1901 125:16 1913 126:4 1919 13:2 1920 26:8 1932 26:8 1935 42:4 1937 148:21 1942 91:1,11 92:14 112:10 1943 92:3 1952 42:9 1956 42:12 1960s 130:18 1971 42:22 1972 43:10 1984 93:6 1992 127:3 19th 91:11 1a 155:13 158:8 159:4 160:13 161:21 162:2 167:20 177:11 1b 155:16 159:8 160:14 162:2 172:9 173:6,10,15 175:3,9,15 177:11,16,21 1c 155:18 158:17 161:21 162:6 163:15 172:9 175:4,9 177:12,17 1st 91:7 92:5,7 Meeting [2 - able] 2 2 155:21 156:18 158:17 163:22 164:4,8 164:11 165:3,4 165:5 168:10 169:22 177:14 2,941 148:9 20 69:19 177:11,16 184:14,20,20 2000 147:7 2002 29:16 2004 127:4 2007 180:21 2009 147:1 2013 43:13 2017 164:1 2018 43:14 45:10 2022 113:14 20220 1:13 2023 1:6 4:16 11:13 2024 6:17 10:14 14:4,7 15:11 17:13 26:7 34:16 41:15 70:18 71:17,20,22 72:8,12 180:4 2025 6:19 7:3,6 9:17,20 10:20 11:13 40:18 41:9,12 50:1 67:3 125:2 143:12 144:9 November 28, 2023 Page 2 146:17 147:7 2028 6:16 10:12 14:2,9 34:14 20th 92:14 148:11 21 145:2 21st 30:14 22nd 166:9 23 35:11,20 24 6:14 11:12 67:17,21 70:19 71:20 24th 42:4 25 6:14 27 35:10,10 28 1:6 15:19 17:12 30:4 35:21 28th 4:16 29511 186:19 29th 92:11,12 92:16 93:9 101:12 115:9 2:32 185:11 2a 177:13 2b 156:3 177:14 2d 85:18 2nd 92:18 93:3 3 3 156:3 172:6 177:14 30 67:15,15,16 67:17,22 131:14 144:20 177:9 33 44:21 34 76:12 39 77:7 3rd 92:8 4 4 156:3 157:13 158:22 161:13 163:22 164:1 168:8,13 171:11,12 172:6,6 177:15 177:15 40 77:7 131:14 40th 93:5 45 126:9 4:30 4:20 4a 156:5 157:10,10,22 158:1,10 161:13,13 162:18,18 164:20 165:8 173:12 177:15 4th 92:9 5 5 80:20 127:19 50 41:6 91:11 52 148:4 5th 92:19 93:7 6 6 17:11 60s 55:3 65:9 134:18 6167588 1:22 6th 92:20 101:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 7 7 13:15 17:3 177:14 70s 55:3 134:18 7820 48:10 7a 99:16,17 100:8 105:9 106:11,12,13 106:18,21 107:18,20 110:9,18 111:3 111:8 113:6,8 116:8,22 7th 126:4 8 8 17:3 801 1:12 8:59 4:17 9 9 17:3 90 66:7 103:6 93 126:8 9:00 1:7 4:18 4:19 9th 1:12 a a.m. 1:7 ability 81:12 186:10 187:7 able 31:10 34:9 37:12 38:12,12 38:13 54:17 61:21 94:10 95:2,17 120:15 142:13 153:1 155:6 170:6 Meeting [above - advocated] above 22:20 absent 155:8 absolutely 77:1 119:6 157:14 abstain 69:8 abstention 69:12 88:9,11 88:14 abstentions 12:2,6 37:8 40:9 121:14 145:19 178:9 academic 10:3 43:19 80:3 accept 36:5,16 68:15 116:20 117:7 accepted 28:21 117:22 accepting 155:2 accolades 44:16 155:2 accommodated 109:1 accompanies 166:17 accompanying 167:4 accomplish 31:11 accomplished 50:8 144:14 accomplishes 39:13 accomplishm... 50:4,11 69:21 November 28, 2023 Page 3 accomplishm... 49:22 57:5 accordance 41:8 accuracy 26:15 116:19 132:9 145:12 accurate 98:6 111:9 112:2,18 129:20 130:17 132:19 186:9 187:5 achieve 22:6 39:1 achieved 103:1 achievement 58:8 achieves 22:5 acknowledge 12:19 124:1 138:15 act 27:21 41:3 41:8 57:22 60:4,7,8 109:12,16 113:5,8,12,13 113:22 114:7 114:10 116:13 118:18 119:2 120:7 121:2 164:6 action 57:21 61:19 104:8,9 105:8 186:12 186:16 187:8 187:12 actions 91:17 activated 90:22 92:13 active 39:10 92:21 93:16 163:21 actively 163:20 184:17 activity 139:14 actual 133:19 139:19 actually 25:5 29:5 30:4,6 37:17 38:16,21 39:6 46:12 52:20 53:8 57:20 64:13 66:4,4,19 81:20 96:14 98:9 110:12 112:11 117:12 130:21 133:5 134:6 135:5 137:7 139:9 157:15 161:19 161:22 164:3 167:10 168:8 175:22 add 29:9 31:10 31:16 56:17 78:18 108:2,9 109:16 111:13 119:16 130:22 143:8 145:11 167:9 168:20 182:15 added 128:16 adding 32:5 116:13 130:20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 addition 14:20 44:16 49:8 117:11 127:1 134:5 additional 27:5 66:19,21 91:15 92:3,9 111:14 111:16 143:5,7 address 54:13 71:10 78:6 95:2 159:9,11 addressed 11:8 138:17 adjourn 180:6 180:8 adjourned 185:10 adjust 54:17 adjusted 46:15 46:19 adjustments 20:11 admittedly 118:17 adopt 68:3 145:6 177:21 adoption 126:14 advance 45:15 advantage 24:2 advisory 4:16 128:5 140:13 179:6 advocate 151:15 advocated 147:11 Meeting [aesthetic - anybody] aesthetic 83:13 affairs 2:5 9:1 9:8,9 10:3 43:19 155:20 156:3,5 affected 49:11 afford 83:21 africa 91:16 african 93:1 afternoon 90:8 123:21 age 56:14 58:3 58:5 agenda 6:11 18:19 aging 75:3 agree 20:9 22:2 22:22 23:1 24:16 29:13 61:4,18 63:12 64:9 65:12 79:16 83:18 95:11 98:15 103:15 109:7 115:12 130:16 135:15 162:16 173:7 agreed 53:16 agreeing 68:20 agreement 151:11 ahead 89:3 119:15 180:10 aided 42:6 aim 123:13 airplane 183:14 November 28, 2023 Page 4 airport 140:7 akin 85:8 alaskan 147:4 alfen 2:19 6:3,5 11:21 20:8,13 36:10,10,20,20 37:3 51:12,13 68:6,6 78:12 78:13 84:18 100:13,14 101:17 102:2 105:1,2 111:18 111:19 112:15 113:1 116:14 124:5,6 130:14 130:15 145:10 145:10 159:3,4 160:15 177:20 177:21 180:10 182:10 185:3,4 align 177:22 alignment 71:10 110:10 alive 148:19 allow 13:13 99:8 103:14 179:10 allowed 39:11 allowing 70:2 95:5,19 allows 13:19 38:8 103:20 aloha 150:21 150:22 152:16 154:5,12 179:1 alongside 54:5 alphen 20:9 altered 93:13 ambivalent 82:5 amended 46:11 amendment 68:14 86:12 87:6 116:17,21 117:8 118:2 120:11,13 145:11 amendments 117:10 118:10 121:6 america 43:16 47:4 73:1,3 126:16 149:14 160:7 165:10 165:16 171:14 172:22 america's 126:13 166:3 american 2:12 5:14 6:19 7:3,6 9:17,20 10:20 11:4 28:19 31:1 40:18 41:3 42:5 50:3 57:18 67:4 71:15 72:22 77:17 92:1 93:19 125:2 127:17 137:1 144:9 146:17 147:4,15 150:5 151:16 152:19 155:12,14,19 156:2 164:1,2 165:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 americans 12:12 13:17,20 50:20 51:1 107:11 147:3 ammo 112:16 112:17,18,19 116:18 amos 7:13 ana 127:2 137:4 ancestors 174:5 ancient 30:16 angeles 6:16 10:12 14:2,10 16:4,7 21:3 26:3,9,13,16 26:17 27:11 29:18,19 30:5 34:15 angle 26:12 110:1 anniversary 13:3 70:20 93:5 announced 180:5 answer 18:8 53:17 60:2 94:9 152:8 answered 33:2 33:3 157:8 anticipation 15:12 anxious 183:8 anybody 80:21 172:19,20 Meeting [anyone's - aspects] anyone's 32:11 anyway 64:16 apart 24:8 apologies 37:2 apologize 19:7 65:3,10 72:6 122:9 appeal 182:8 appealing 58:1 appear 96:7 128:5 160:8 165:10 172:22 173:1 appearance 175:16 appears 26:16 111:6 applause 182:12 appointing 182:1 appreciate 12:17 15:13 23:14 48:4 56:8,13 58:14 60:4 62:21 66:3 78:10 102:21 103:13 104:7 116:2 119:12 122:3,5 128:9 129:22 137:2 140:15 144:7 146:3,6 146:8 154:14 167:14 170:21 171:3 174:10 178:13,15 183:9,11 184:3 November 28, 2023 Page 5 184:9,9 appreciating 156:19 appreciation 179:15 appreciative 180:1 approach 12:8 29:4 34:12 approachable 51:6 approached 39:8 appropriate 30:2 97:17 127:8 131:19 approval 6:12 11:10,17,19 approved 12:7 41:11,18 approximately 4:20 93:15 april 2:21 7:18 14:4 40:19 70:10 73:14,16 74:11 90:12 92:3 108:20 122:6,20 125:3 136:2 146:18 148:11 152:19 ar 53:5,18 58:17,17,18 arc 16:6 31:21 32:3,3,4 architectural 21:6 48:8 archival 4:5 archives 79:2 area 42:16 169:4 argument 82:14 arkansas 6:20 9:21,21,22 10:5 40:19 41:13 42:2,5 42:12,14 43:13 43:13,16,21,22 52:4,13 56:15 59:15 62:10 67:5 68:12 arm's 39:15 armistice 13:3 army 7:1 10:5 10:10 89:22 90:5,10,17 91:1 94:5 95:9 array 149:1 arresting 39:7 art 18:1 19:13 20:20 23:1 27:16 28:1,3,5 28:13,17,17,20 28:21 29:4 30:3,4,11,12 30:19 51:18 68:11 80:11 109:5 116:2 117:7 137:15 148:15 156:14 169:19 arthur 2:6 5:4 11:18 18:2 20:21 27:7 51:19 80:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 109:6 113:4 116:3 120:15 124:3 137:16 156:15 178:2 articulated 27:1,5 articulates 19:1 artist 31:21 48:13 59:11 144:2 159:17 163:15 171:12 171:19,21,22 173:4 176:3 artist's 144:3 artistic 24:13 65:12 122:21 179:14 artistically 64:14 artistry 160:9 artists 18:7 19:18 29:7 41:17 56:21 57:8 101:19 110:17 146:9 152:2 179:9,22 arts 17:3 46:7 71:6 94:21 140:5 155:18 asked 41:15 66:9 78:6 142:1 173:22 181:5 asking 99:2 100:10 aspects 148:6 149:19 Meeting November 28, 2023 [assault - baijal] assault 100:3 101:2 assembled 44:8 assembly 125:11,12,13 125:17 126:2,6 127:6,14,15,16 129:9,21,21 130:2,18 131:22 133:16 134:7 135:3,15 135:17,20,21 136:1,3 137:12 137:19,22 138:9 140:11 141:5 142:19 142:20 143:4 assessment 162:17 assisted 52:1 associate 10:3 11:3 43:18 152:17 associated 66:15 156:21 association 10:10 94:5 95:8 assuming 27:12 assure 45:14 attached 86:3 attempt 160:6 173:16,17 174:10 attendance 179:22 Page 6 attended 148:16 attending 7:16 40:16 146:1 178:19 attention 126:1 181:4 attire 46:4 attorney 186:14 187:10 attract 39:14 attracted 137:17 157:2 159:4 attractive 39:16 51:16 105:7 131:3 142:8 atypical 85:16 audible 6:8 9:13 audience 184:14 audio 149:5,8 186:8 187:4 august 91:11 aunt 59:13,15 62:2 167:18 auntie 168:10 169:21 aunts 62:3 author 147:17 153:6 authoritative 148:5 authorization 15:6,13 authorized 101:12 automated 42:22 automation 133:19 automobile 125:11,15 126:14 automobiles 125:12 126:12 automotive 136:11 available 19:9 45:17 avant 28:3 avoid 46:9 award 43:11 awarded 43:10 91:15 93:17 94:12 100:6 103:3,5 awards 90:16 155:2 aware 159:14 awareness 45:12 aye 12:3,4 37:5 37:6,10,11 40:1,2 69:6,7 88:6,7,12 121:11,12 145:16,17 178:6,7 185:1 185:5,6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 b b 26:3 back 17:11 25:9 27:22 31:13 32:20 33:16 35:5,6 53:14 59:4 61:7,14 62:7 63:11 64:17 65:3,9,18 67:8 67:11 72:14 80:2 84:8 86:16 87:3 90:4 97:8 123:16,19,22 128:10 130:9 141:7 144:16 151:8 153:15 154:9 157:13 163:4 164:18 177:5 184:18 184:18,18 background 41:2 42:3 58:21,22 59:6 59:18 90:16 125:8 128:17 146:22 157:5 158:20 168:4 backup 127:1 bad 131:21 158:11,13 185:8 badge 101:16 102:22 103:4 baijal 3:8 8:13 8:15 Meeting [balance - boys] balance 107:18 balanced 49:6 106:8 balancing 179:13 ballet 23:4,6 banksy's 27:19 barracks 92:13 base 104:9 based 18:11 29:9 30:2 41:17 44:11 84:9 87:4 104:4 123:3 161:2 167:15 bases 110:15 basically 77:14 basin 60:22 basins 74:22 basis 92:7 battalion 91:7 91:22 92:6,7,8 92:8,9,11,15 92:20 93:3,10 101:13 104:6 112:7,10 battalion's 93:7 battalions 91:2 91:16 92:19,22 93:16 101:12 115:8 battle 104:11 bay 137:7 beach 93:7,8 99:1 101:6 beautiful 79:5 139:11 140:2,8 November 28, 2023 Page 7 160:3,22 163:16 168:21 169:6 173:19 beautifully 32:16 beckoning 106:6 began 126:3 beginning 121:19 148:21 beings 138:22 believe 49:6 73:20 76:10 96:12 97:1 102:10 123:9 144:2 175:10 183:4 beloved 84:9 153:6 belt 112:16,17 112:18,19 belts 116:18 126:7 benefit 19:2 bernstein 2:6 5:4 11:18 18:2 18:3 20:21 27:7,8 51:19 51:20 52:11 68:11 80:12,13 89:9,13 109:6 109:7 116:3,4 116:7,20 117:1 117:6,7,15,22 120:14,15 124:3,4 137:16 137:17 156:15 156:16 178:2,2 berstein 5:6 11:18 best 65:11 95:13 186:10 187:6 better 64:14,21 86:19 104:4 105:18 132:2,5 138:6 140:10 160:20 161:14 161:14 171:5 bevel 110:18 110:19 111:4 beyond 44:14 45:9 134:20 bieda 9:19 126:18,21,22 139:3,6,9 146:1,5,14 biennial 71:15 big 81:9 120:3 134:22 161:18 bigger 77:16 birch 160:3 169:1 bird's 135:19 136:6 birth 94:19 bishop 148:2 148:22 156:20 161:5,11 164:8 165:4 bit 4:20 17:14 24:21 26:2 49:4,5 54:1,13 54:18 64:14 73:3 83:5 105:6 107:21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 131:10,15 134:2 149:10 162:21 164:17 165:8 168:21 169:10 173:21 bitter 44:19 black 42:14 43:13 blake 9:21 43:21 blessing 153:1 blessings 12:17 13:11 bluff 42:14 board 129:15 boat 49:9 body 48:17 bold 39:15 76:21 158:14 boneza 3:7 8:10 97:1 book 169:13 books 157:13 border 73:3 109:2 172:11 borders 172:13 borer 3:5 8:5 born 42:4 148:11 151:14 151:17 170:11 bother 81:16 bothered 107:19 bottom 26:18 31:22 72:13 bounce 133:17 boys 93:6 Meeting [brainer - business] brainer 129:7 branches 169:20 break 56:6 67:9,9 89:7,11 89:20 brendan 9:7 brevity 78:10 bridge 137:8 151:18 bridges 30:6 brief 19:8 30:11 56:17 123:5 138:14 153:4 154:7 briefly 21:14 21:20 44:15 51:5 85:3 151:1 164:15 brigadier 93:8 93:11 98:22 brilliant 30:22 bring 18:3 27:19 53:14 84:8 87:3 bringing 58:2 brings 62:7 british 91:3,9 91:12 101:2,9 broader 148:7 broke 139:15 brought 31:17 113:5 166:19 brown 1:5 2:2 4:10,11,13,14 4:19 5:7,10,13 5:16,19,22 6:3 6:6,9,10 7:14 November 28, 2023 Page 8 7:21 8:2,5,7,10 8:13,16,19,22 9:4,7,11,14 11:20 12:1,5 17:17,19 18:14 18:16 19:21 20:7,12,15,20 20:21 21:13 23:13 25:17 26:20,22 27:17 28:8,10 29:1,8 30:9 31:2 32:20 33:5,13 33:15,18,20 34:11 35:2,5,6 36:3,4,8,14,18 37:2,4,7,14 39:2,20 40:5,7 40:9 46:22 47:1,6,22 48:4 48:5,7,16 49:12 50:17 51:11,12,18 52:15 53:19,21 54:2,20 56:7 57:1,10,11 62:17 63:1,2,4 64:1,3 65:21 67:2,11,13 68:1,8,14,19 69:4,10 70:4,8 73:11,15 74:5 74:9 75:7,9,19 77:10,22 78:9 78:12,21 79:19 79:21 80:10,16 81:18 82:12,13 82:19 83:8 84:4,11,14,19 85:1 86:5 87:4 87:12 88:3,11 88:13,19,21 89:5,8,11,17 89:19 90:2,5,8 97:13,16 100:9 102:4,9,21 103:10 104:22 105:1,11,20 107:2,4,7,13 107:15 109:5 109:19 110:6 111:12,15 113:2 114:14 114:15 116:1,6 116:15 117:5,9 118:9,15 119:12,15,20 119:22 120:4,5 120:10,14,17 120:18,19 121:5,10,13 122:1,6,13 123:3,18,21 124:5,7,9,11 124:15,17,19 124:21,21 129:1 130:12 130:14 131:6 132:11 133:11 135:8,10 136:19 137:15 138:2,11 139:3 139:7 141:17 143:5,10,14 144:8,16,18 145:4,8,14,18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 146:12,15 154:11,13 156:7,22 157:1 157:19 159:1,3 160:17,19 161:15 162:9 162:11 163:10 163:12 164:11 164:12 167:13 170:20 173:13 174:19 175:1 176:18 177:5 177:18 178:4,8 179:2 180:7 181:2,11 182:3 182:11 183:2,6 183:12 184:15 184:22 185:5,7 185:10 brown's 183:10 browne 11:1 154:5,10,12 170:2 178:22 bug 129:17 130:5 build 125:14 building 45:7 built 134:16 bunch 54:6 buried 93:19 bus 75:13 buses 169:3 busier 132:4 166:15 business 11:10 42:15 168:5 179:3 Meeting [busy - certain] busy 131:15 164:17 butchered 125:20 button 65:7 buy 79:6,8 142:22 164:9 bye 70:7,7 c c 2:1 3:1 4:1 52:1 98:5 cad 49:3 calicos 170:12 california 14:10 call 4:15 5:3 18:8 39:13 52:9 59:15 96:2 123:22 124:2 168:9 180:22 183:21 called 7:17 camp 92:19 canada 45:2 canadian 91:12 candidate 6:19 6:21 7:1,3 14:1 15:14,14 16:3 16:15,17 17:18 18:22 33:6 34:13 40:18,22 41:20 45:13,20 46:21 67:3 70:9,12 73:10 90:10,14 96:3 96:18 97:7,11 97:12 125:2,6 November 28, 2023 Page 9 126:19 128:11 143:11 144:9 146:17,20 149:11,20 152:10 153:17 155:10 156:6 candidates 7:5 canvas 137:11 capable 183:15 183:18 capozzola 2:11 5:13,15 25:18 25:19 33:1 40:3,6,8 48:3 56:10 68:10,11 75:20 76:12 77:8,19 82:21 110:8 111:2,11 118:2,7 124:15 124:16 138:13 138:14 164:14 167:12 capture 34:9 132:16 captured 159:21 captures 157:11 capturing 149:4 car 132:7 140:22 141:10 142:21 carcasses 125:20 card 64:18 65:1,17 carderock 60:22 cards 64:19,22 care 178:22 183:21 career 44:10,17 44:21 146:7 148:2 carefully 83:5 109:8 caring 181:4 carried 92:22 101:3 112:11 178:10 carries 37:8 40:10 69:12 88:14 carry 31:21 112:7 166:8 carrying 23:5 111:21,22 112:13 cars 130:1 132:6,17 134:13,15,19 135:21 136:1 142:22 143:18 144:1,1 145:12 cartridge 112:19 case 57:18 63:11 cases 57:4 cast 137:22 caucus 155:12 155:15 caught 19:14 125:22 141:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 cause 167:1 ccac 1:2 2:3,5 4:4 6:11 7:8 9:2,5 11:11 34:18 38:1 50:19 164:22 179:21 180:2 180:13 181:13 184:10 ccac's 73:21 celebrated 12:14 13:2 50:3 93:2 celebrates 15:4 147:2 celebrating 50:10 142:19 143:2 147:11 151:9 celebrations 13:7 cemeteries 93:19 center 72:13,21 centers 92:10 cents 72:10 182:15 century 30:14 138:21 144:1 ceremonies 14:15 15:11 ceremony 6:17 10:13 14:3 34:16 certain 37:21 83:2 133:7 142:21 159:15 164:19 165:13 Meeting [certainly - cleaner] certainly 13:14 28:19 37:14 40:13 45:4,6,7 135:18 152:9 155:4 165:2 182:4 184:3 certificate 186:1 187:1 certify 186:4 187:2 cfa 17:6,7,16 20:10 31:18 46:13 48:2 49:18 51:16 71:8 73:7 96:1 96:6,9,21 103:16 104:17 128:14,15 178:1 cfa's 71:14 97:20 chair 6:11 19:6 39:5,19 118:16 136:21 179:5 182:13,22 184:19 chairman 9:19 17:17 20:16 28:9 29:1 30:10 31:15 46:21 48:18 69:8 74:8 76:16 88:10 97:13 116:4 132:13 143:13 180:22 chairperson 2:3 184:17 November 28, 2023 Page 10 challenge 171:1 challenges 57:6 challenging 114:3 180:17 chance 165:21 chancellor 10:3 43:19 change 28:6 32:11 73:6 77:3 78:5 85:13 151:20 160:6 changed 28:21 125:12 181:7 changes 81:15 81:15,16 127:22 changing 85:7 108:6 channel 92:17 chants 148:5 charge 111:21 133:1 check 111:9 112:21 checked 96:13 116:18 132:8 cherish 13:10 chesapeake 137:7 chicago 125:18 chief 2:21 7:18 8:16 14:4 17:15 21:15 29:2 30:15 31:14 40:20 46:17 70:11,15 84:20 85:2 90:12 125:4 146:18 child 53:14,15 62:4 66:13 170:4 chime 166:6 chiunzi 98:5,10 98:12,17 99:7 99:8 chiunzy 117:15 118:3 choice 63:19 115:10 127:11 131:17 132:2 156:18 164:22 165:1 choices 83:2 87:3 107:7 131:18 chose 170:14 chosen 36:16 174:3 chris 25:17,19 32:22 56:9 58:3 68:10 75:19 76:16 82:20 110:7 138:12,13 164:13 christopher 2:11 5:13 124:15 cinematic 32:6 circle 158:2 circulated 69:19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 citation 98:8 100:7 108:16 110:10 118:4 citations 91:15 93:18 98:7 100:6 101:20 101:21 108:15 118:6 cities 14:15 15:4 20:18 21:2,7,9 22:1 22:10,22 25:15 28:19 29:20 38:13 citizen 128:5 citizens 4:15 140:13 179:5 city 30:5 civil 90:21 civilian 43:11 clamoring 79:9 clarify 120:6 clarity 172:11 175:4 176:21 class 43:9 127:18,21 classes 42:21 148:17 classic 79:3 classical 22:4 22:17 23:5 24:8 38:14 classics 79:10 classmates 148:21 clean 106:9,15 cleaner 26:2 Meeting [clear - comes] clear 18:4 31:5 31:8 60:17 63:13 64:11 67:21 109:17 175:13 clearly 33:22 54:7 61:2 66:15 80:20 163:7 164:19 clerk 42:17 cliffs 93:3 climb 93:3 clips 112:19 close 79:15 80:22 84:6 135:22 144:6 161:12 177:12 177:16 closely 25:5,8 156:21 closer 80:8 81:3 closing 6:17 10:13 14:3,14 15:11 34:16 clothes 46:1 cloud 65:7 clutter 175:16 clutters 157:15 coast 91:13 92:17 coauthored 148:7 code 65:9 cohesiveness 181:14,19 coin 6:20,22 7:4,6,13 9:17 November 28, 2023 Page 11 9:20 10:20 14:21 15:3 20:3 21:1 25:1 26:6 38:17 40:19 41:3 44:15 45:4 49:7 53:13 55:17 62:1,5 63:21 67:4 70:10,16,19,21 71:2,3,5,21 72:5,6,8,9,19 76:8 77:16 78:13,20 79:7 80:9,21 82:22 84:2 85:15 86:1 100:22 102:20 125:3 126:15 132:16 136:13 137:10 139:19 140:13 142:1 144:10 146:18 147:2 151:7 157:4 158:10 160:21 160:22 161:1 162:22 163:6 164:3,21 165:20 166:17 168:3 170:16 171:15 173:10 173:12 174:11 175:4 176:15 179:12 coinage 4:15 137:1 179:5,19 coinnews 7:12 coins 23:19 30:21 41:5,10 42:1 57:19 66:8 69:20 71:8,13 76:19 79:6 83:21 114:9 127:3 130:7 132:14 147:5 153:2 179:16 coliseum 16:7 17:10 20:4 32:16 collaborated 41:19 collaborating 148:22 179:7 collagey 22:8 24:17 colleague 47:3 colleagues 26:22 33:21 57:13 67:5 84:5 103:13,18 104:18 141:18 142:6 162:16 171:4 176:19 183:20 184:3 collect 30:12 collecting 53:13 62:5 147:9 collection 148:9 149:6 collective 13:12 collectively 93:17 95:15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 collector 62:1 75:13 83:20 146:2 collectors 79:9 84:9 179:9 181:5 college 42:13 53:16 colonel 91:20 104:4,5 111:20 112:8,9,16 116:18 color 115:1 170:10 columbia 41:7 186:21 combat 91:10 92:4,15 100:1 100:2,21 101:3 101:15 102:22 103:4,6,8 combination 110:9 137:12 combined 91:3 combines 22:4 24:8 come 31:13 32:20 33:16 54:15 66:2 86:16 88:22 95:12 115:13 123:16 128:10 153:15 164:18 166:16 comes 133:6 151:7 157:17 183:18 Meeting [comfortable - computer] comfortable 18:21 53:1,4 coming 54:15 123:16,19 133:18 150:14 181:14 command 93:12 94:8 99:1 commanded 93:11 commander 91:22 93:10 112:7 commando 91:4,8 101:9 commandos 91:9,10 92:1 commemorat... 107:8 commemorates 12:12 commemorat... 69:20 commend 184:1 comment 27:8 28:12 30:3 31:17 47:17 52:2 56:18 57:13 64:5 68:21 74:17 86:7,11 95:22 97:8 119:21 142:16,17 156:19 165:6,6 165:7 commentary 99:6 115:1,19 comments 11:14 12:9 23:14 27:5 29:9 39:3,21 49:12,16 56:18 58:4 61:5 66:20,22 69:5 84:5 87:13 88:4 97:20 100:9 103:15 104:14 107:14 108:9 111:16 118:16 119:13 121:7 141:18 142:5,12 143:6 143:7 167:15 179:5 commerce 10:15 commission 17:2 46:7 71:6 94:21 128:6 140:6,14 155:18 commissioned 30:6 commitment 45:5 committee 4:16 5:2 11:10 14:16,17 17:20 18:17,20 29:3 29:10 30:18 31:3 32:8 34:13 44:2 45:15 47:7 November 28, 2023 Page 12 49:13 56:8 64:6 66:7 67:2 74:6 78:1 82:6 94:15,17 96:1 100:11,21 102:5 103:11 115:5 116:8 119:5,7,10 126:19 127:8 128:9 129:2 132:14 143:11 152:1 155:20 156:2,5,11 167:16 174:20 177:19 178:21 179:6,8 181:8 181:13,18 182:20,21 committees 153:20 162:4 175:9 common 114:4 communicated 54:6 communicati... 9:12 164:7 community 12:19 153:7 company 92:15 112:6 125:16 compare 105:16 compared 59:12 103:22 comparison 71:9 compelling 23:17 38:6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 39:6 60:7,9 62:15 106:4,7 106:22 159:10 competition 23:6 compilation 34:3 complement 50:2 complete 34:17 completed 144:11 176:22 completely 81:4 152:21 completing 91:9 compliment 109:21 composer 147:17 composition 49:10 60:9 163:16 compositional 31:20 compositiona... 49:1 compositions 32:1 147:18 149:7 164:5 comprehensive 148:8 comprised 179:8 computer 42:6 42:7,20 43:3 52:1 55:14,15 61:10 63:14 Meeting [computer - conversation] 64:18 65:3,10 65:19 computers 59:4 con 115:2,4 concept 42:2 86:18 91:3 92:4 108:3 125:10,10,13 138:9 concepts 41:10 41:10,16,17 concern 106:9 139:15 162:3 181:6,7 concerned 95:16 115:5 134:13 139:21 160:21 175:10 concerns 26:10 26:18 54:12 71:10 157:4 175:15,22 concluded 40:11 69:14 145:22 185:12 concludes 17:17 46:21 73:9 97:12 156:6 conclusion 14:11 173:9 concur 182:16 conducted 92:16 confess 26:22 141:18 confidence 55:18 183:13 183:16 confident 183:19 confirm 7:15 123:22 confusion 137:20 congratulatio... 19:18 congress 109:12,16 113:5,8,13 114:1,7,10 116:13 118:18 119:2 120:7 121:2 155:19 156:1 congressional 7:2 10:6,7 32:15 39:9 89:22 90:6,11 90:17 94:2,12 94:13 104:21 109:11,13,17 114:20 119:8,9 147:10 153:20 155:12,14 162:4 conjunction 15:10 connotation 28:20 consecutive 179:6 consensus 115:22 November 28, 2023 Page 13 consequence 134:3 consider 31:3 32:9 67:9 69:1 69:2 71:11 98:12 109:11 116:11,13 120:16,17,21 182:1,16 consideration 18:18 19:4 45:22 49:15 51:9 57:9 70:9 78:2 103:12 125:1 129:4 156:13 167:19 considerations 133:6 considered 47:12 96:12 149:16 151:5,6 constantly 149:18 153:10 constitution 72:4 consulted 149:18 consumer 10:18 contain 41:22 118:17 contained 94:18 contemplated 73:18 75:21 contemplates 83:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 contemporary 26:10 context 30:22 85:5 129:17 continue 83:11 154:2 continued 42:21 126:5 continues 134:16,17 148:10 155:5 184:10 continuing 45:8 134:14 continuity 38:5 181:14,18 contradict 48:21 contrary 87:7 contrast 135:2 contributed 13:9,21 contribution 51:7 56:15 contributions 51:2 121:20,21 147:3 182:3 convenience 34:6 convention 131:20 conversation 34:7 57:13 84:19 116:5 121:7 142:4 145:14 166:15 166:20 Meeting [conversations - dayton] conversations 30:20 66:1 74:3 119:3 182:17 conveyed 138:4 conveying 138:8 conveyor 125:21 126:7 conveys 26:2 convinced 137:9 cool 130:10 coolest 184:15 core 151:20 corner 169:1 corporate 9:12 correct 28:6 40:5 73:21 77:14 87:9 99:9,21 102:7 111:10 112:20 122:19 171:11 correctly 16:10 122:16 corresponding 77:2 cost 126:11,11 costello 8:19,21 66:21 76:3,3,9 76:14 108:21 111:14 143:9 cota 93:9,11 98:22 counsel 9:5,5 34:18 186:11 186:14 187:7 187:10 counselor 47:3 counterparts 15:10 countless 148:1 148:5 countries 15:4 country 13:6 14:12,12 28:2 30:13 45:5 51:2 104:13 107:11 couple 81:16 94:22 103:17 111:20 140:17 141:20 182:13 courage 91:19 courageous 178:16 course 46:16 136:10 152:15 court 4:8 19:2 courtesy 66:17 cover 110:15 covered 123:4 craft 100:3,5 101:2,2 108:12 create 43:4 73:3 98:11 created 41:17 72:8 creates 181:19 creating 48:13 creation 57:22 60:4,5,8 127:17 creative 24:7 55:14 November 28, 2023 Page 14 creatively 56:20 creativity 25:14 credit 24:13 credited 42:7 crime 27:13,13 criminal 10:4 43:20 criminology 10:4 43:20 crisper 76:21 criteria 182:1 critical 142:7 crucial 13:8 92:1 118:19 119:3 cruise 183:14 cultivate 12:18 cultural 149:7 149:22 179:14 culture 11:5 30:8 147:19 148:7 150:7 152:18 154:22 169:15 curator 2:20 6:4 11:3 152:17 curiosity 115:20 curious 114:18 119:1 140:18 159:9 162:15 current 52:20 184:13 currently 15:5 166:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 curve 159:12 curved 125:15 custom 148:12 d d 4:1 dad 167:18 dagger 114:3 dahlgren 60:18 dancer 23:4 147:17 darby 91:21 92:5 112:9 darker 74:13 74:14 dash 125:15 date 71:22 75:15 81:3 82:9 134:13,19 148:8 151:7 dates 27:22 110:13 114:5 daughter 155:7 daunting 169:19 david 43:17 44:1 58:4,9 60:1 day 12:13 13:2 13:4 70:5 107:8 121:22 146:13,16 151:12 155:5 days 27:21 64:17 65:18 103:6 141:2,6 dayton 131:20 Meeting [dc - design] dc 1:13 42:16 de 16:6 31:21 dead 119:11 138:19 deal 79:2 december 92:14 decide 47:11 105:17 decision 19:11 63:10 122:11 142:20 153:4 declarations 151:11 decorations 72:10 deep 12:13 deepened 179:15 deeper 166:20 167:2 defend 104:13 defended 13:6 defer 167:22 definitely 27:21 76:6 120:7,11 128:10 152:10 153:15 definitive 122:10 degree 42:11 42:15 deliberate 97:10 delimiter 52:10 52:11,12 68:12 November 28, 2023 Page 15 demonstrated 91:17 denied 92:5 dennis 2:17 5:22 19:5 32:22,22 39:4 47:16 57:10,12 63:7,12 64:10 79:20,22 107:14,16 114:14 120:4,5 124:17 136:20 146:6 163:11 denomination 72:6,9 department 10:1 33:12 depending 26:16 117:17 117:18 depict 132:18 152:3 depicted 55:8 56:13 58:3 101:19 108:12 128:22 132:15 depiction 22:9 111:9 147:6 149:11 depictions 16:8 23:19 106:19 deployed 50:12 depots 92:11 descendants 10:8 94:3,15 describe 21:19 described 110:11 descriptions 45:16 162:3 design 2:21 3:2 3:4,5,6,7,8 7:18,22 8:3,5,7 8:10,13,20 14:5,6 15:17 15:22 16:3,17 16:18,20 17:1 17:3,9,11 18:3 18:5,22 19:14 21:5,8 22:15 23:1,17 25:6 25:11 27:10 35:10,12,12,14 35:15,15,16,17 35:17,18,19,19 35:21 38:17 39:7,17 40:20 41:5,10,16,20 41:21 42:6 43:2,4,8,9 45:16,20,20,21 46:5,10,20 47:8,21 49:3 51:17 52:1,6 52:21,22 54:4 54:9,9,16 55:14 58:1,7 58:12 60:16 61:2 62:11,13 63:13,15 64:16 65:1,12 67:15 67:16,18,18,19 67:20,21 68:3 70:11,22 72:14 72:18,22 73:18 74:15,16 77:6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 80:3,19 81:10 81:11 83:7,17 84:9 86:14,15 86:16,21,22 87:1 90:12 94:14 96:4,5 96:20 97:1,11 105:7 106:16 113:6,17 114:12 120:8 125:4 127:3 128:12,12,17 128:18,21 129:7 130:11 130:20,22 131:4,21 133:7 134:12 135:18 136:9,12 137:8 137:17,19 138:1 139:21 140:1,2,4,8,19 140:20,21 141:8,19 142:2 142:8 144:21 144:22 145:1,1 145:2,7 146:19 153:4,12,22 155:10,11,11 155:13,16,18 155:21 156:5 156:18 157:15 158:10,11,12 158:12,13,13 158:15 162:21 162:22 163:5 163:19 164:8 164:11 168:8 168:11,13 Meeting [design - discussed] 169:22 170:15 173:19 174:1 177:10,11,11 177:12,12 designed 15:16 16:21 34:14 61:9 70:15 103:7 designer 32:8 127:2 designers 116:11 designing 63:14 64:13 65:19 designs 6:19,21 7:1,3,5 14:1 15:14,15,21 16:4,15,17 17:5,18,22 19:16 24:20 29:21 30:17 33:7 35:20 36:5,16 40:18 40:22 41:17 43:15 45:13,16 46:20,21 47:11 49:20 52:3 55:9,21 58:14 63:20 64:9 67:3 70:9,13 71:5,9 73:10 79:3,5 82:18 83:11 84:17 85:6 90:10,14 94:20 96:3,18 97:7,12 103:22 105:5,16 November 28, 2023 Page 16 106:22 109:22 110:19 118:21 119:18 122:7 125:2,6 126:20 127:5 128:11 129:6 131:9 132:6 135:13 139:11,13 140:17 141:2 143:12 144:9 146:17,20 149:10,11,20 152:10 153:17 156:6,10 158:7 159:14,15 160:12 161:14 162:7 163:20 163:22 165:14 165:18 167:6,8 167:21 170:10 173:16 179:12 184:8 desire 42:19 desk 42:17 despite 91:19 detail 38:8 61:6 81:6 112:16 detailed 38:18 135:22 details 132:18 detect 100:2 detract 172:18 develop 41:10 developed 42:22 126:3 developing 41:20 development 46:10 dial 48:10 diameter 75:21 76:1,4 77:7 dictionaries 148:8 difference 75:2 75:16 76:18 82:5 85:16 155:4 176:6 differences 75:14 77:4 178:17 different 18:8 22:3 38:17 52:6,18 58:16 65:16 74:19,21 80:22 81:2 86:14 108:6 110:2 151:10 153:19 159:17 160:12,12 161:4,19 169:20,20 170:21 171:8 174:12 differentiate 52:4 differently 81:13 171:10 difficult 65:2 91:18 101:7 140:16 142:10 182:4,6 difficulties 141:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 digging 118:13 digital 49:1 74:20 186:8 187:3 dignity 174:16 dimensional 85:6 86:2 136:14 dimensions 75:22 77:18 diminish 114:11 direction 26:12 58:20 84:6 142:5,15 170:7 171:2 directly 13:20 43:6 director 2:4 8:22 9:22 disagree 39:5 disassembly 125:19 disbanded 92:18 discern 142:14 discernible 143:18,19 disciplines 149:1 disconcerting 54:16 discretion 103:14 120:8 discuss 16:16 37:13 discussed 57:3 68:4 116:10 Meeting [discussed - dr] 175:5 discussing 81:14 136:2 discussion 6:15 6:18,21,22 7:2 7:5 17:22 19:11 40:11 68:8 69:14 80:17 114:18 115:2,4 116:16 117:2 118:11 118:11 119:4 145:21 153:13 178:4,19 discussions 30:19 115:14 139:2 disorganized 115:16 display 129:14 disrespectful 171:19 disservice 56:4 distance 174:15,17 distinct 92:6 distinction 78:22 108:3 140:11 175:17 distinguish 42:1 distort 157:6 district 41:7 186:21 dive 38:8 167:2 diverge 24:20 diverse 179:10 November 28, 2023 Page 17 diversity 184:7 divided 16:14 92:5 dividing 126:8 division 92:12 93:9 document 147:21 documents 11:15 dodie 11:1 154:4,12,17 168:10 169:21 doing 21:16 49:5 58:6 79:10 89:21 95:7 106:6 131:19 134:9 154:15 182:12 dollar 41:3,4 44:15 55:12 70:15,16 71:2 71:20,22 72:4 72:7 75:13 139:20 143:20 147:2 dollars 127:4 donald 2:16 5:19 21:13 24:12,16 54:21 78:21 80:3 83:18 104:19 124:7 129:4 130:16 131:16 134:10 135:15 137:6 157:20 171:6 182:15 door 183:3 doors 44:20 dot 52:9 double 49:7 91:7 184:18,18 doubt 56:22 download 65:5 65:7,8 dr 1:5 4:10,11 4:13,14,19 5:7 5:7,9,10,13,13 5:15,16,19,22 6:3,3,5,6,9,10 7:14,21 8:2,5,7 8:10,13,16,19 8:22 9:4,7,11 9:14,21 10:2 11:20,21 12:1 12:5 17:19 18:14,16 19:21 20:7,8,12,13 20:15,16,17,20 20:21 21:13 23:13 25:17,18 26:20,22 27:17 28:8,9,10,11 28:11 29:8 30:9 31:2 32:20 33:1,5 33:13,15,18,20 34:11 35:2,5,6 36:3,4,8,10,14 36:18,20 37:2 37:3,4,7,14 39:2,20 40:3,5 40:6,7,8,9 46:22 47:1,6 47:22 48:3,4,5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 48:7,16 49:12 49:17 50:6,15 50:16,17 51:11 51:12,12,18 52:15 53:19,19 53:21 54:2,20 56:7,10 57:1 57:10,11 59:22 60:2 62:17,18 63:1,2,4,4,5,7 63:16 64:1,3 65:21 67:2,11 67:13 68:1,6,8 68:10,14,19 69:4,10,15 70:4,8 73:11 73:15 74:5,8,9 74:10,10,18 75:4,7,9,19,20 76:12 77:8,10 77:19,22 78:9 78:12,12,21 79:19,21 80:10 80:16 81:18 82:12,13,13,19 82:21 83:8 84:4,11,14,18 84:19 85:1 86:5 87:4,12 88:3,11,13,19 88:21 89:5,8 89:11,17,19 90:2,5,8 97:16 100:9,13 101:17 102:2,4 102:9,21 103:10 104:22 105:1,1,11,20 Meeting [dr - either] 107:2,2,4,4,5,7 107:13,15 109:5,19 110:6 110:8 111:2,11 111:12,15,18 112:15 113:1,2 114:14,15 116:1,6,14,15 117:5,9 118:2 118:7,9,15 119:12,15,20 119:22 120:4,5 120:10,14,17 120:18,19 121:5,10,13 122:1,6,13 123:3,18,21 124:5,6,7,9,11 124:12,15,16 124:17,19,21 129:1 130:12 130:14,14 131:6 132:11 133:11 135:8,8 135:10,10,11 136:19 137:15 138:2,11,13 139:3,7 141:17 143:5,10,13,14 143:15,15,22 144:7,8,16,18 145:4,8,10,14 145:18 146:12 146:15 154:11 156:7,22 157:1 157:19 159:1,3 159:3 160:15 160:17,19 November 28, 2023 Page 18 161:15 162:9 162:11,11,12 163:10,12 164:11,12,14 167:12,13 170:20 173:13 174:19 175:1 176:18 177:5 177:18,20 178:4,8 179:2 180:7,10 181:2 182:3,10,11 183:2,4,6,7,9 183:11 184:15 184:22 185:3,5 185:7,10 draft 42:8 43:8 48:14 174:9 draftsmanship 137:9 drapes 158:2 drastically 28:21 draw 25:13 79:4 drawing 111:4 111:6 164:3 drawn 57:20 92:12 134:1,10 135:6 137:6 163:19 170:18 175:3,7 draws 25:4,12 37:21 dream 45:8 dress 173:22 driven 126:6 drop 64:22 119:11 dropping 64:19 drove 42:20 du 93:4,6 due 43:5 51:8 88:22 92:18 duly 186:5 duplicate 22:12 duplicated 97:8 duplicating 22:10 duplication 175:14 duty 92:21 93:16 dye 82:3,4 dyes 82:1 dynamic 129:20 134:6 172:18 e e 2:1,1 3:1,1 4:1,1 eagle 72:20,22 earlier 4:21 37:18 68:12 81:22 135:1 139:10 141:2 142:18 150:21 161:14 earliest 141:6 early 41:15 72:21 132:7 easier 83:15 104:6 131:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 141:15 easiest 164:21 easily 49:11 72:15 eat 55:4 echo 64:5 edge 71:4 72:6 72:9 82:10 85:18,19 111:3 edged 91:8 edit 139:15 edith 147:14 152:22 editor 7:12,13 educate 102:11 educates 50:22 educating 151:22 effect 164:4 effective 52:2 138:8 effectively 24:3 25:7 37:20 efficiency 18:19 125:21 effort 92:2 116:4 egalitarian 184:19 eiffel 16:6 26:15 eight 35:16 91:14 93:17 144:21 either 22:13 46:11 60:13 104:3 112:1 161:20 162:6 Meeting [either - excellent] 163:20 elders 147:22 148:16 electronic 139:18 elegance 173:4 elegant 21:5 element 23:2 29:3,3 103:20 109:10 119:5 141:13 150:1 elements 16:3 24:9 38:17 94:13,16,18 100:16,19 102:1 105:4 109:9 115:6 139:12 142:3 142:13 159:15 160:5,12 162:1 173:21 eliminate 116:22 elm 169:1 else's 64:5 email 34:22 emblem 15:19 16:1,2 17:12 30:3 embodied 85:11 91:19 embodies 28:4 85:17 106:5 embrace 27:2 102:16 embracing 87:12 November 28, 2023 Page 19 empire 27:22 employed 186:11,14 187:8,11 employee 186:13 187:10 emulate 27:12 encourage 30:18,21 56:19 83:22 ended 13:3 endorse 20:19 68:11 85:4 132:22 133:4 endure 13:14 91:19 enemy 91:20 engage 25:5 engaged 135:5 180:20 engagement 179:18 engagements 108:7 engaging 153:10 engineer 42:6 45:1,1 engineering 42:10,18 60:8 engineers 42:19 england 92:13 english 92:17 148:17 engraved 81:22 82:3 engraver 8:17 17:15 29:2 30:16 46:17 70:15 84:20 85:2 engraver's 21:16 55:19 engraving 8:20 98:11 enjoy 13:21 enjoyable 40:14 enjoyed 12:21 55:1 ensure 68:5 153:9 entered 45:17 entertain 36:2 116:5 enthusiasm 26:19 164:16 entire 163:16 environment 74:21 envision 20:2 envisioning 171:17,18,22 envy 146:7 equivalent 17:14 eras 132:15,15 error 126:2 es 186:4 especially 57:17 61:8 106:6,16 120:22 130:6 136:2 166:21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 essence 83:17 157:11 essential 109:9 essentially 78:14,19 135:19 established 25:2 establishment 69:21 ethnographic 147:18 149:8 european 93:1 evans 3:6 8:7,9 events 10:16 everybody 4:6 56:2 128:7 184:17 everybody's 22:13 everyday 126:14 everyone's 45:12 evocative 149:16 evolution 126:2 evolve 126:5 exact 74:22,22 134:13,19 exactly 38:22 168:1 example 16:5 16:13 23:22 104:1 133:8 165:8 excellent 162:7 182:19 Meeting [except - feel] except 76:22 88:14 140:4 exchange 179:10 excited 25:19 25:20 26:5 exciting 156:9 exclamation 96:10,15 98:20 99:4,9 excuse 11:2 50:16 105:14 executed 84:2 existed 90:21 169:3 exoticizing 165:12,13 expand 92:2 100:18 expect 31:5 expecting 74:19 experience 12:22 38:17 40:14 127:3 179:15 180:17 experiences 44:11 expert 153:19 expertise 149:18 167:22 experts 41:19 179:8 explain 132:20 explaining 171:8 explicitly 38:13 54:7 November 28, 2023 Page 20 exploration 156:10 exposed 91:20 express 12:16 25:14,14 expresses 131:22 expression 15:1 extend 13:8 extension 13:18 extensive 149:6 extraordinary 90:19 eye 19:14 39:15 135:19 136:6 137:6 178:15 178:15 f fabulous 21:17 21:18 face 50:22 57:7 65:14 66:10 faces 49:18 72:2 facilitate 116:4 facility 60:19 fact 10:14 48:1 48:1 50:13 53:11 56:8 59:10 61:4,9 65:1 66:5 91:7 102:11 104:5,9 104:12 118:17 119:3 127:13 142:4 158:6 162:18 169:3 176:19 178:15 factors 61:16 fair 88:17 120:17 fairbairn 91:8 101:9 111:3 fairly 105:4 faithful 71:13 77:1 faithfully 71:7 fame 43:13,14 95:10 familiar 127:18 families 12:16 family 45:21 46:2,6 58:18 60:14 95:12 150:2,7,13,15 153:2,15,18 154:3 155:16 155:22 156:4,8 156:18 159:7 160:1 161:11 163:13 164:9 166:4,11 169:19 170:21 171:2 175:8,12 175:17 178:12 178:13 family's 51:3,9 51:14,20 63:19 177:22 famous 16:5 21:6 fantastic 24:20 53:8 138:20 182:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 far 45:9 55:12 129:20 137:1 168:2 fascination 23:3 fashioned 59:2 father 10:22 151:17 166:11 168:9,11 father's 152:6 favor 12:3 37:5 37:10 40:1 50:14 54:2 69:6 87:14 88:5,14 104:15 121:2,11 145:16 164:11 178:6 185:1,5 favored 48:1 104:16 141:19 favorite 23:10 67:21 favorites 58:18 fears 64:19 feasible 117:21 feat 50:8 93:4 feature 15:18 15:22 22:2 70:21 74:15,16 132:6 149:11 featured 15:20 features 21:6 featuring 21:8 federal 70:17 180:5 feed 58:21 feel 18:20 19:13 23:21 Meeting [feel - foremost] 24:6 25:11,13 26:10 38:21 75:12 96:13 98:8,19 117:4 132:17 138:21 162:15 166:16 feeling 22:18 143:3 feelings 114:22 feels 38:4,6,15 134:8 fellow 10:10 146:2 felt 23:17 26:11 100:21 101:13 101:21 166:13 166:16,22 170:5 fence 83:10 fidelity 86:2 field 42:12 172:3 fields 179:9 fight 91:18 figure 55:6 130:21 figures 129:19 130:4 141:15 fill 42:19 final 15:18 finally 7:4 9:14 97:11 156:5 184:8 financial 126:11 financially 186:15 187:11 November 28, 2023 Page 21 find 21:5 39:6 62:8 75:13 80:13 81:4 133:8 135:1 159:10 162:7 175:3,7 finding 121:2 fine 17:3 24:18 33:17 46:7 54:9,18,19 60:12 71:6 94:21 114:8 140:5 155:18 finished 43:9 108:5 fire 91:20 firm 180:16 181:17 first 4:22 11:9 13:2,22 21:14 24:5 25:2 27:9 29:13 36:6,12 36:15,17 37:5 37:8,13 41:1 41:12 42:7,22 43:2,8 44:6 45:20 46:5 48:14 51:14,21 52:17 54:1 58:17 64:4,17 70:16,17,20 84:20 91:1,10 91:14,21,22 94:18 95:4 96:2,20 100:20 103:15 106:11 109:7 112:10 115:10,14 125:14 127:9 128:19 131:8 131:17 132:8 146:22 147:6,8 149:5 150:7 152:20 157:7 159:14,19 161:10 173:5 180:21 firsthand 38:4 fit 62:16 fits 129:8 fitted 127:6 five 16:22 22:16,18 34:22 35:2,3,14,17 50:2 67:9,9 89:7,11,13,19 89:20 90:1 128:17 131:22 140:19 144:13 144:14 145:1 176:22 177:2 fix 55:19 flag 14:18 151:14 flags 21:10 flat 76:19 86:1 flavor 78:18 flight 83:6 flip 82:22 flipping 116:9 117:12 florida 41:14 flow 83:16 flower 160:1 flowers 160:4 161:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 flowing 6:21 70:9,14,21 71:2,20 fluent 149:3 fluid 134:8 focus 11:5 140:19 focuses 150:6 folks 115:16 146:9 153:3,12 183:2,7,21 184:2,22 follow 59:20 71:1 73:19 followed 127:11 177:17 following 6:12 7:16 9:16 15:14 26:5 41:20 86:14 90:21 152:21 follows 72:9 font 120:3 165:16 fonts 165:9,9 165:13 footsteps 166:8 forcefully 99:3 ford 125:16 126:1,3,5 127:19 133:2 foregoing 186:3,4 187:4 foreground 48:21 foreign 166:2 foremost 103:15 Meeting [forget - geographic] forget 52:8 74:11 117:13 forgive 143:16 183:7 forgot 27:8 81:21 form 27:21 28:22 31:1 32:17 format 128:4 formation 92:18 formed 91:1 92:6,11,21 former 95:9 141:21 158:3 forms 28:3 129:11 forrest 92:19 forth 72:15 80:2 fortitude 91:18 forum 31:18,21 32:2 forward 6:9 32:21 33:21 56:19 73:9 106:7 121:3 128:21 153:12 fought 103:8 found 50:8 founder 7:12 112:9 four 16:20 21:5 22:15 24:16,17 26:11 29:16 35:13,14 46:21 60:4,9,10 61:5 November 28, 2023 Page 22 64:10,12 65:11 67:19,20 103:19 106:10 106:15,15,19 110:9 120:2 128:17 131:18 136:8,18 145:1 161:19 177:14 182:7,20 fourth 12:15 frame 170:10 framed 32:3 france 14:8 frankly 79:7 146:9 165:15 free 18:20 freedom 13:9 freedoms 13:21 french 15:10 91:13 fresh 21:19 friend 182:17 friendliest 118:1 friendly 68:14 86:12 87:6 116:17,21 117:8,9 118:2 118:10 120:10 121:6,9 145:11 145:13 friends 12:16 frigate 43:9 58:7 60:16 61:2,8 front 61:15 129:15 fruit 149:20 175:12 fulfill 66:4 full 85:14 104:5 fuller 2:8 5:7,9 20:16,17 28:9 28:11,11 50:15 50:16 63:4,5 74:8,10,10,18 75:4 82:13 107:3,4,5 124:11,12 135:9,10,12 143:13,15,15 144:7 162:11 162:12 183:4,7 fully 85:7,12,18 86:3 106:13 180:1 fun 146:7 function 75:1 85:9 functionally 85:19 fundamental 20:22 fundamentally 132:21 further 29:9 38:12 39:3,20 40:10 69:5,12 75:15 100:9 102:4 111:16 117:2 118:11 118:11 119:12 121:7 145:14 145:20 167:14 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 176:20 186:13 187:9 future 30:17 73:19 107:12 g g 4:1 games 6:16 10:12 14:11,13 14:14,18,22 15:2,4,12,12 16:22 29:18,20 34:15 garand 111:22 garb 23:5 garde 28:3 garment 174:6 gather 12:16 gear 41:22 general 2:2,6 2:10 5:5,11 6:10 17:22 21:15 28:5 93:8,11 98:22 164:5 166:19 generally 82:7 105:4 generated 42:8 generation 29:16 153:8 generations 147:20 generic 133:9 genres 28:16 gentleman 184:16 geographic 116:9 Meeting [geometric - great] geometric 129:11 130:10 gesture 176:1,4 getter 145:3 giant 54:14 giants 55:2 gift 14:21 gilkes 7:13 girl 161:7 give 24:10,13 27:3 51:8 87:2 97:9 136:8 182:2 given 18:18 43:7 57:6 120:21 gives 32:2 135:19 136:5 162:14 176:20 giving 146:1 glad 59:3 64:8 gladly 116:20 gladys 59:13 59:15 62:2 glance 24:5 globe 54:15 glorify 27:13 gm 133:2 go 17:11 22:10 31:13 32:21 37:9 51:9 60:1 61:7 63:11 71:19 72:14 74:20 78:8 79:13,14,20 80:6 84:20 97:7 105:19 118:4,5 119:15 November 28, 2023 Page 23 125:9 128:11 130:9,10 135:16 138:10 140:11 141:7 154:19 157:9 157:13,18 161:10,10,11 162:17 163:2,4 169:4 180:10 184:18 goddess 16:8 30:1 goes 45:8 64:16 111:5 128:4 172:11 going 21:15 22:8,9,13,18 22:20 26:13 31:9 32:16 33:21 34:22 38:18 56:19 63:6 65:17 66:18 74:3 76:20,20 77:11 77:11 79:13 80:2,6,14 81:1 81:22 83:10,20 85:13 88:15,15 103:18 104:15 104:18 118:21 123:5,15 129:12,13 130:4 137:21 137:22 138:10 138:17 140:3 142:9,10,11 154:7 161:10 168:3,4 171:3 171:13,15 173:1,19 176:21 180:9 gold 6:22 7:2 10:6,7 32:15 39:9 70:10,19 71:3,5,21 72:5 72:8,19 76:7,9 77:11,15 80:2 83:19,22 89:22 90:6,11,17 94:3,12,14 95:13 104:21 109:11,13,17 114:20 119:8,9 golden 147:2 good 4:2,7,10 4:14 12:1 21:21,21 22:19 34:8 35:8,22 59:7 64:15 79:13 88:19 89:2,4 90:8 123:21 132:3 139:9 140:20 146:13 152:16 158:12,12,13 169:9 176:12 goodwill 15:1 gotten 54:8 government 9:8 70:17 132:22 governors 41:9 41:15 graciously 155:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 graduated 42:12 graduating 42:9 graffiti 27:12 27:14,15,20 28:1,1,17,20 grand 61:3 grandchildren 168:9 granddaughter 10:21 11:1 154:13 granddaught... 156:19 grandest 62:11 grandmother 148:13 151:2,5 151:13,13 154:21 159:20 168:14 170:3 grandmother's 166:8 grandness 61:8 62:12 grant 30:4 graphic 62:11 gratefully 117:7 gratitude 12:14 12:16 13:8 great 10:21 19:18 33:19 44:6 50:18,20 51:1,2 55:11 55:17,18 62:3 63:19 64:7,19 70:5 79:2 95:7 Meeting [great - head] 107:10 128:7 135:13 136:16 140:8 151:1,5 151:13,19 153:11 159:20 166:8 168:14 184:6,16 greater 172:6,7 172:10 greatly 130:22 greek 18:11 greeting 136:22 greg 3:3 9:4 34:5,18,21 35:7 67:7,12 132:19 144:11 144:17 145:4 176:22 177:6 177:18 grew 44:9 169:7 grid 51:22 grittiness 29:4 grouchy 27:10 groundbreaki... 43:12 48:13 grounded 110:3 grounds 26:5 group 7:12 12:4 37:6,11 40:2 44:8 69:7 88:7 95:9 115:16 121:12 145:17 159:5 163:15,22,22 163:22 164:4 November 28, 2023 Page 24 178:7 181:11 185:6 grouping 21:17 groups 100:17 115:21 growing 62:6 guess 63:5 65:15 78:5 82:15,17 118:18 173:8 guided 66:3 guidelines 68:5 gun 111:22 112:2,8,12 guy 129:14 guys 95:7 110:3 183:16 h h 98:5 hair 6:21 70:10 70:15,22 71:2 71:20 159:22 161:6,8 halena 11:2 152:13,14,17 153:16 half 44:21 180:15 hall 43:13,14 95:10 hanchock 3:7 8:10,12 97:1,4 hand 4:13 32:21 46:11 48:6 49:8 68:17 75:8 84:21 88:16 90:5 111:5 142:15 160:21 165:22 175:11 175:21 176:5,8 176:11,17 183:4 handing 38:2 handoff 15:3 handover 6:16 10:13 14:14,22 15:3,9,16 34:15 40:15 hanover 14:3 happen 29:18 30:11 happened 26:8 45:10 64:12 131:13 134:15 happening 134:6,8 143:4 happens 165:14 happy 20:8,9 20:13 51:13 56:10 69:2 94:22 105:2,9 152:7 165:3 harassed 181:2 181:3 harcourt 2:8 5:7 20:15,17 28:10 63:2,5 82:12 107:5 124:11 135:11 143:14,22 162:10,12 183:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 hard 152:2 154:22 155:7 182:2 harlan 167:17 harman 10:21 150:18,20 151:4 159:11 166:6 169:18 173:14 175:18 178:20 hate 81:8 118:22 181:12 hawaii 148:11 150:21 151:9 151:20 152:16 166:9 174:7 hawaii's 149:21 hawaiian 11:5 147:8,13,16,19 147:20,22 148:1,6,8,9,12 148:13,16,18 148:19,20 149:3,14,19,19 149:22 150:6 150:21 151:14 151:15 152:18 153:5 161:7,9 165:21 166:1 169:10 hawaiians 147:5,12 149:3 152:5 hazard 43:8 60:17,21 head 46:9 47:10,12 54:11 Meeting [head - horrible] 54:17 68:4 76:5 82:7 174:17 headed 49:7 hear 4:7 17:17 44:4 53:3 63:7 123:14 139:1,6 146:2 151:2 154:10 heard 29:10 50:21 97:20 110:22 123:11 156:17 167:16 184:18 hearing 11:9 11:16 12:2,6 18:17 25:22 34:12 39:21 49:14 69:5,13 87:14 121:10 121:14 141:18 143:10 145:15 145:19 151:13 156:12 174:10 178:5,9 heart 155:3 hearts 12:11 hearty 182:11 heavily 180:20 heavy 38:18 91:20 height 43:6 held 39:15 helm 183:12,15 184:8 helmet 104:2 help 120:15 156:9 November 28, 2023 Page 25 helps 62:21 107:18 henry 127:19 heraldic 72:22 hereto 186:15 187:11 heritage 9:22 10:1 43:22 95:14 151:16 152:5 166:3 179:17 heroic 92:22 hesitation 164:16 hi 154:5 hibiscus 159:22 160:3 161:4,6 161:7,8,12 168:22 169:2,3 169:6 hibiscuses 169:6 high 35:11,20 42:9 67:18 77:11,15 83:19 136:8 145:3 177:9 highest 35:9 134:11 172:2 highland 126:4 highlight 14:19 50:17 highlights 51:7 highly 91:4 135:1 182:15 hired 42:16 historians 179:9 historical 85:4 179:13 historically 42:14 histories 149:8 history 2:12 5:14 11:5 13:13 49:19 51:8 95:14 150:6 152:18 169:14 hits 61:22 157:18 ho 55:17 hoard 2:10 5:10,12 23:16 36:12 37:12,16 37:17 47:9,10 47:14 53:22 68:2,2,16 81:20 82:4 105:21,22 113:3,3,12,16 113:21 114:13 117:11,16,20 120:13 122:20 123:1 124:13 124:13,14 133:13,14 145:6,13 161:17,18 174:21 175:2,2 hoc 93:4,6 hold 150:13 holding 24:19 50:7 162:1,4,6 holds 12:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 hole 118:14 hollywood 16:8 homage 13:1 78:14,19 home 181:16 183:8 homeland 151:20 honest 23:3 60:13 honestly 59:17 honolulu 148:3 169:1 honor 44:12 70:22 107:9 128:4 146:6 147:7 151:6 154:14 179:7 honored 41:9 44:15 48:20 147:8 151:4 152:1 honoree 156:21 honoring 6:20 7:4 9:17,20 40:19 41:5 67:4 125:3 144:10 hope 12:20 30:18 55:22 hopefully 4:6 44:3 95:17 153:2 horizon 54:14 horizontal 31:22 32:2 horrible 32:18 55:21 Meeting [host - included] host 14:12,12 14:15,20 29:20 hosting 14:8,9 15:5 hot 61:7 hour 56:16 89:3 123:8 hours 43:10 48:14 126:8 house 2:9,13 5:8 6:7 33:10 155:12,15 158:18 169:2,5 houses 149:6 hudnell 10:7 94:2,6,7 98:3 99:11,17,21 100:16,20 101:18 102:6,8 108:11 110:11 110:22 111:8 112:4,21 113:10,13 115:3 121:17 122:2 hued 147:2 huge 55:13 59:3,5 huh 4:11 77:9 hula 148:15 hum 55:18 human 138:22 humanity 137:12 humor 56:9 hundell 118:5 118:8 119:4 November 28, 2023 Page 26 husband 62:2 hyde 187:2,16 i idar 162:14 idea 21:10 133:16 135:14 136:2 166:1 181:21 ideas 57:16 98:1 167:19 179:10 184:7 identifiable 133:7 identified 16:18,21 17:1 17:4,5 155:11 155:14 identify 66:15 93:10 identity 27:19 165:12 idiosyncrasies 82:11 idiosyncrasy 80:8 ii 7:1 10:6 89:22 90:6,11 90:18,19,22 94:4,11,15 97:2,6 98:7 99:10,19 100:2 101:15 103:9 107:17,22 108:3 109:15 110:12 112:4 113:8,22 114:4 115:7 116:12 116:22 122:11 illusion 22:18 illustrate 129:9 image 20:1 51:6 53:1,4,9 53:12,18 54:2 55:15 58:22 59:7,18 61:21 62:12,15 71:16 71:19 72:17 101:1 129:21 135:2 157:3 imagery 21:6 38:12 images 52:18 57:8 106:4 immediately 61:11 immersed 38:22 immersive 23:20 imperfections 83:16 implied 172:11 implore 181:20 importance 12:19 57:17 179:16 important 13:18 22:2 23:1 57:14,19 60:6 99:4 101:14,22 127:16 147:2 149:22 166:13 169:16 170:22 176:6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 impressed 95:7 improved 60:10 inaudible 18:18 31:16 32:17 47:5 49:19 56:20,22 62:4 76:10,19 77:10 84:10,15 87:11 102:17 104:5 108:4,18 108:19 110:21 121:9 127:1,9 127:20,21,21 128:2,7 133:12 140:4,6,16 141:5,9,14 146:6,7,8,11 151:6 152:6 160:11 166:10 166:11,12 168:2,16 174:3 176:2,12,16 178:10,20,22 179:20 inch 15:16 24:2 32:12,14 38:7 163:18 inches 76:4 include 16:4 46:11,12 120:12 147:4 165:18 170:8 173:21 included 71:4 114:10 116:8 120:8 Meeting [includes - interviewed] includes 6:12 71:12 including 16:5 113:5 120:6 121:2,4 138:22 147:13 148:15 149:7 179:9 inclusion 147:15 156:20 164:7 incorporate 18:9 105:3 incorporated 100:18 increased 126:12 incredible 42:3 184:15 incuse 72:5,8 171:13,15,17 independence 151:11 indian 11:4 150:6 155:20 156:2,2,5 indians 147:4 152:19 155:20 indicate 7:17 33:22 indicates 77:6 109:13 indifferent 82:14,18,22 indigenous 147:3 indirectly 13:20 indistinguish... 140:1 individuals 184:7 inducted 43:12 infancy 154:21 infant 147:6 infantry 91:6 92:12 93:9 102:22 103:4 infantryman 101:16 influence 172:19 influenced 127:17 information 46:18 85:2 125:8,9 153:3 166:18 initial 91:3 173:16 initially 157:2 159:13 injuries 126:10 innovation 6:19,20 7:3,4 9:17,18,20,20 40:18,19 41:3 41:5 47:4 55:12 56:15,20 57:6 60:8 66:1 66:5,16 67:4,4 125:2,3 131:13 133:16 134:14 134:17,20 143:1 144:10 144:10 179:14 November 28, 2023 Page 27 innovative 39:15 innovator 42:4 42:6 66:1 innovators 41:6 57:4,5,17 input 15:13 29:5 138:15 146:3 inscribed 71:4 inscription 72:1,12 73:1,2 73:4 97:6,9 149:12,14 inscriptions 43:15 71:2 75:5 76:22 77:3 97:21 109:2 117:12 126:15 149:13 insight 58:5 62:20 146:1 163:14 insignia 104:2 inspiration 45:3 inspirational 59:16 63:15 inspire 44:10 45:9 59:16 inspiring 183:20 instrument 103:5,8 insult 59:11 integral 96:14 126:13 136:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 integrated 59:4 integrity 32:5,7 114:11 intellectual 133:6 intention 76:10 intentional 112:13 interaction 141:12 interchange 141:12 interest 79:8 interested 186:15 187:12 interesting 24:18 25:10,11 27:18 40:13 54:4 62:9 64:7 106:9 133:10 134:12 151:7 151:12 158:9 interestingly 24:9 54:7 intergovernm... 2:5 9:1,9 interject 173:14 internally 74:1 international 14:16,17 30:13 internet 50:6 77:5 interpretations 80:4 interviewed 149:3 Meeting [intrigued - kind] intrigued 38:11 134:4 158:7 intriguing 39:16 156:9 introduce 5:2 40:21 45:14 47:2 70:12 90:13 94:1 125:5 146:19 150:3,8 154:4 154:8 introduced 14:6 125:17 introduction 44:7 invalidate 172:20 invaluable 69:17 invention 164:2 inverting 109:1 invest 141:2 invite 94:6 150:7 inviting 94:8 involved 133:22 137:5 179:13 181:21 182:9 involvement 142:6,7 islands 92:17 issuance 83:4 issue 41:4 48:17 59:9 74:2 78:16 115:2,13 November 28, 2023 Page 28 139:17 143:17 issued 99:1 issues 11:7 48:8 49:14 73:19 83:14 106:14 147:1 176:19 item 18:4 items 59:5 j january 42:4 jennifer 2:4 4:3 7:8 8:22 34:20 88:20 123:7 jimmie 10:9 94:4 95:3 97:19 job 1:22 21:21 21:21 42:22 95:7 132:3 144:4 146:7 182:12 joe 18:6 21:21 27:17 31:12 47:16 48:16 51:15 52:8 57:1,12 66:19 74:17 132:11 132:12 143:7 143:16,21 171:10 173:8 joe's 86:13 john 2:13 6:6 26:20 33:5,15 48:7 64:3 68:17,19 75:7 75:9 80:16 83:18 84:21 86:6 105:11,12 124:19 131:7 132:12,13 142:16 160:17 160:18 john's 85:9 join 14:16 182:6 joined 9:15 joining 156:8 jonathan 55:1 jone 62:3 joseph 8:16 48:19 76:16 171:22 jovita 162:14 judge 9:18 126:18,18 145:22 judged 110:3 jump 154:9 jumped 19:15 june 112:10 justice 10:4 43:20 jutting 171:16 k k.'oko'a 151:9 kakahiaka 152:16 kanaka'ole 147:14 kanaka.ole 152:22 kapuni 11:2 152:13,15,17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 154:1,6,16 karat 70:19 71:20 kawena 10:21 11:1 147:7,12 147:16 149:12 154:13 155:17 155:22 ke 165:11,16 169:9,11,17 174:16 keep 19:7 21:16 37:19 keeping 123:7 148:12,19 kellen 2:10 5:10 23:15 25:22 37:17 47:9 53:21 68:2 81:19 105:20,21 113:2,3 124:13 133:12,13 161:16,17 174:20 175:2 kenao 147:14 152:22 kept 133:18 181:11 keyboard 59:2 139:18 kid 60:21 kind 19:13 21:18 22:8 23:3,9,22 24:3 24:11,17 28:13 29:4 30:17 32:6 37:22 Meeting [kind - lasted] 38:8,15,18 49:1 54:14 59:9 61:11 65:12,14,16 82:6 83:4 85:10,21 105:22 106:19 114:4 115:21 131:17,22 133:17,21 134:5,21,21 135:4 139:12 139:17 140:11 140:18 141:1,6 146:6 151:19 157:22 158:5 160:6,11,11 161:4 166:7,20 167:22 168:12 171:16 173:17 174:9 175:14 175:18,20 176:4,11 kink 140:18 klann 125:16 klann's 126:1 knew 181:9 knife 91:8 101:9 110:17 111:3,3,6,8 know 4:6 17:14 22:16,17,20 23:1,5,8,9,10 23:17 24:1,7 28:18 30:6,14 30:20,22 37:19 37:22 38:3 40:13 50:20 November 28, 2023 Page 29 51:7 54:8,10 55:3,5,7,11,12 55:14,15,20 56:2,3,12 59:2 59:11,14 60:17 60:18,18,22 61:20 63:21 65:6 72:14 74:2 76:5,7 78:8 79:3,4,8,9 79:11,16,17 80:14 81:12 97:13,19 104:3 106:2 108:5,8 110:12,15,16 110:19 112:8 112:20 113:8 117:3 127:7 128:2 129:10 129:11,19,20 129:22,22 130:1,3,3,5,8,9 130:10 131:14 135:14 136:1,3 136:3,4,5,9,13 137:4 140:17 140:22 141:13 153:19 154:21 155:3,3 158:1 158:5,7,8,11 158:15,17,19 158:19,20 159:9 161:5,7 161:8 162:2,13 162:19,20 163:8 164:8,17 164:18,20 165:1,20 166:1 166:2,22 168:4 168:18 169:7 169:15,17,21 171:8,9,14,16 173:3,4,7,9,11 173:18 174:12 175:3,11,20 176:13,14 180:1,15,18,18 180:19,19 181:1,4,10,12 181:13,16,22 181:22 182:7 183:8,13,14,17 184:5 knowledge 30:2 147:20 149:19,19 151:22 168:17 174:15 186:10 187:6 known 93:20 153:6 160:2 180:20 kudo 22:15,15 kukui 149:21 149:22 174:7 kumu 165:11 165:17 169:9 169:11,17 174:16 kupuna 174:4 l l 151:9 la 15:19 17:12 21:3 26:16 28:18 30:4,8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 35:20,20 la'akea 154:9 154:17 lacks 161:21 laid 38:13 land 55:2 landing 93:8 100:3,4,5 101:2,2,6 104:9 108:12 108:13 118:3 landings 100:2 100:21 101:4 101:19 104:10 110:10 landmarks 16:6 language 147:19 148:1,6 148:19,20 149:4 155:1 165:22 166:2 166:22 167:3,3 175:6 languages 166:21 large 61:3 142:3 largely 106:10 larger 108:1 larry 180:19 181:10,11 182:16 laser 81:22 82:2 lasted 44:21 134:20 Meeting [late - line] late 46:9 65:3 latency 65:10 launch 152:21 laurel 72:20 law 41:2 90:16 147:9 180:16 181:17 lawrence 1:5 2:2 6:10 124:21 layer 172:4,14 lead 93:12,13 96:10 98:21 99:2 101:8 107:22 108:4 leader 2:16 5:17,20 6:7 112:5,6 182:19 leaders 184:1 leadership 182:21 leading 104:5 104:10 106:5 111:21 league 94:16 lean 21:4 26:1 29:22 80:14 141:19 142:5 156:17 171:2 leaned 168:12 leaning 52:7 84:6 142:14 learn 42:21 51:1 63:20 64:6,8 167:3 169:9 learned 64:8,17 95:8 148:15 November 28, 2023 Page 30 learning 50:20 159:12 leave 56:17 131:4 leaves 149:21 153:10 163:21 leaving 120:20 ledanski 187:2 187:16 left 103:1 114:6 157:14 legacy 45:8 149:17 153:10 legal 9:4 17:21 28:2 47:7 48:8 49:13 74:6 100:11,14 129:2 156:11 legislation 66:3 legislative 2:4 9:1,9 legs 73:17 lei 149:22 161:22 162:2 174:1,6 175:10 176:7 length 39:15 lens 38:1 letter 6:13 11:11,17 12:7 85:8 lettering 52:4,5 52:7 85:18,19 107:20 109:15 163:5 174:12 letters 85:5,13 98:6,11 167:4 levels 184:4 liaison 2:5 4:3 7:8 9:2 48:1 94:14 123:9 126:17 128:13 128:20 133:20 136:22 137:18 141:19 liaison's 96:4,5 96:17,19,20 104:20 106:11 107:6,16 128:15,18,19 129:22 136:17 liaisons 9:16 10:11,19 16:18 16:21 17:1,5 29:6,9 41:19 89:1 94:1 96:13 97:8,14 100:15 105:19 106:3 108:5 109:8 110:17 111:19 114:16 114:20 118:19 119:2 120:22 121:16 138:15 139:1 150:2 163:13 164:10 165:17 166:4 179:21 liberty 71:15 72:1,2 77:14 77:17 library 83:12 lieutenant 104:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 life 53:11 126:14 127:2 149:17 180:17 182:5 lifetime 56:15 58:8 61:14 lifeways 147:22 lifting 141:9 light 47:22 74:22 91:5 133:22 lighter 74:12 74:14 lighting 75:2 liked 21:8 24:4 26:4 127:12 133:14 138:20 138:21 157:21 159:16 160:4 161:19 likely 15:18 95:22 96:2 likeness 159:21 168:14 175:5 likes 158:1 lilliputian 47:21 55:20 limited 134:21 line 125:11,12 125:13,17,19 126:3,6 127:6 127:14,15,16 129:10,21 130:18 131:22 133:16 135:15 135:18,20 136:3 137:19 137:22 138:9 Meeting [line - lunch] 139:14 140:11 140:21,22 141:5,10,13 142:19,20 143:4 linearly 114:3 lines 86:15 129:19,21 130:3 164:17 176:7 list 101:22 147:13 listed 100:22 listen 54:22 55:22 183:2,15 184:1 listened 97:20 109:8 listening 95:6 157:22 173:9 listens 182:18 listing 115:8 literal 31:19 32:5 48:22 literally 18:10 109:1 149:15 literature 166:17 little 10:5 17:14 24:17,21 26:1,2 42:5 43:21 49:4,5 52:9 54:1,13 54:16,18 55:2 64:14 74:21 83:5 107:21 129:12,14,19 131:10,15 November 28, 2023 Page 31 132:4 138:5 141:15 149:10 158:14 165:8 166:15 168:21 169:4,9 171:9 173:21 176:16 live 4:22 129:12 lived 168:22 170:3 lives 12:17 153:9 living 102:16 102:18 liz 47:3 location 99:7 99:22 117:13 locations 100:1 100:5 101:20 108:13,14,17 116:10 175:15 log 33:11 logic 172:17 logo 32:3 140:8 london 29:19 long 23:11 45:8 134:20 longed 42:10 look 20:3 22:7 24:6 25:4,8 39:8 49:9 54:3 54:15 55:20 58:5 59:10 61:20 63:12 64:15 66:13 76:20,21 80:20 81:11 105:16 111:2 112:18 129:13,13 130:2,4 137:20 141:14,15 149:15 153:12 153:17 160:3 163:6 165:7,19 168:3 169:11 169:15 182:2 183:16 looked 59:13 80:21 115:15 119:17,17 132:9 137:18 139:22 141:6 152:4 168:14 176:14 looking 22:5 23:21 24:17 53:12 54:14 61:14 75:12 99:15 136:4 139:13,18 140:10 141:5 150:16 157:14 166:15 171:9 174:14,16 looks 23:4 26:6 26:7,13 52:14 52:20 53:10 54:14 55:4 59:7,13 60:15 61:22 79:14 86:16,21 108:22 129:17 135:4,20 136:13,13 159:20 160:20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 loop 129:16 142:11,13 lore 148:20 los 6:16 10:12 14:2,10 16:4,7 21:3 26:3,9,13 26:16,17 27:11 29:18,19 30:4 34:15 lose 32:7 118:22 loss 55:8 lost 33:14 55:13 147:21 lot 21:20 26:4 26:19 44:17 53:15 61:6 63:15 64:6 79:3,3 83:15 95:8 112:5 127:13 139:9 151:8 156:16 157:5 159:6 166:7 169:12 170:10 173:18 183:12,16 184:4,4 love 62:1 129:6 129:11 151:21 161:7,13 163:17 165:15 loved 159:18 low 77:16 lowered 14:18 lunch 88:22 123:5,8 Meeting [m1 - medal] m m1 111:22 144:20 m1-02 127:11 m1-05 127:11 m1-06 127:10 127:12 machinery 134:5 machines 59:5 made 13:5 17:11 19:8 31:21 51:2 66:16 81:15 82:15 85:17 86:19 93:18 100:1 103:18 107:11 125:12 142:22 147:3 155:4 166:14 170:12,22,22 182:3 main 59:9 76:17 81:4 mainstream 28:16 maintain 78:15 81:3 82:10 major 15:2 42:10 50:8 94:8 102:7 103:20 104:3 majority 2:15 5:17 make 16:1 17:14 19:14 22:9 27:8 31:9 November 28, 2023 Page 32 31:12 33:22 34:8 45:17 48:2 49:4,9 55:17 68:21 69:2 81:14 83:13 84:12 85:19 87:11 96:8 97:22 102:11 108:2 108:12 109:17 111:9 120:2 122:9,15 129:6 140:16 142:21 153:3 158:9 164:22 165:1 165:11 170:13 182:8 184:17 makers 142:21 makes 25:4,5,7 38:21 58:7 66:14 76:17 81:11 104:6 108:18 130:9 making 35:11 67:17 79:11 83:2 145:3 181:6,7 man 27:10 135:3 183:10 management 2:22 7:19 14:5 40:21 70:11 90:13 125:4 146:19 manager 3:2,4 3:5,6,7,8 7:22 8:3,5,8,11,14 8:19 10:8,17 77:6 94:2 97:2 manifested 85:5 manifests 85:10 marines 45:7 mark 42:1 70:20 96:15 99:9 122:21 marking 13:3 marks 15:3 136:8 mary 10:21 11:1 147:7,12 147:16 149:11 154:13 155:17 155:22 maryland 60:22 62:5 mass 125:14 massachusetts 151:18 152:7 master 82:3,4 match 76:11 159:18 material 59:6 materials 148:2 matter 153:18 matters 12:8 81:2 matthew 1:21 186:2,20 mayor 14:19 14:19 38:3,3 mayors 14:15 mean 4:3 21:2 21:19 32:16,18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 44:13 48:11 53:10 55:5 64:11 65:17 66:9,10 79:7 80:21 118:12 137:20 142:2,2 142:18 158:12 160:22 171:19 172:9 173:7 180:11 181:15 184:5 meaningful 63:9,9 means 35:9 44:13 66:11 67:14 144:19 169:11 meant 27:12 152:3,4 meat 136:4 mechanical 42:13 mechanized 137:12 medal 6:15,16 6:22 7:2 10:6,8 14:2 20:3 25:1 25:13 26:4,7 31:5 32:15 34:14 37:21 38:7,22 39:9 39:11 70:10,19 70:21 71:3,21 72:5,19 89:22 90:7,11,17 94:3,12,14,17 101:14 104:21 108:17 109:13 Meeting [medal - mint] 109:17,22 113:14 114:7 115:6 119:8 163:18 179:12 medallion 6:17 10:13 14:3,21 15:3 21:1,8,9 21:11 31:6 34:15 medallions 15:9,16 39:1 medals 15:7,15 15:18 19:8 95:13 109:12 114:21 119:8 119:10 132:14 179:16 media 7:12,13 meet 47:11 60:20 meeting 1:2 4:15,21 7:10 9:16 13:17 73:8 87:3 94:9 95:1 133:15 180:4 183:17 meetings 6:14 11:12 meets 68:5 106:20,21 megan 3:2 7:21 member 18:22 50:18 127:2 137:3 150:14 158:3,4 180:20 180:21 182:22 members 5:2 7:9 18:20 27:6 November 28, 2023 Page 33 29:10 35:9 67:14 89:4,5,8 95:12 100:10 103:12 111:17 141:21 142:12 143:6 144:19 154:3 166:4 174:20 177:9 179:20 180:13 181:8 182:2,6 memorial 16:7 20:4 memorialized 93:4 memories 53:15 62:7 men 13:5 93:15 men's 14:5 menacing 55:6 55:6 menna 8:16,18 16:11 18:7,15 27:17,18 31:15 31:16 32:14 48:18,19 51:15 52:10 57:2 67:1 74:18 75:5 76:15,16 77:13,20 82:2 113:19 114:2 132:12,12 143:21,21 171:18,21,22 172:9 173:2 184:12 mention 81:21 mentioned 37:18 44:17 62:2 98:22 100:16 102:6 119:6 140:6 141:21 157:10 mentions 153:5 merit 135:13 meritorious 43:11 merits 122:21 message 138:5 met 49:7 109:10 181:9 metals 114:9 method 91:3 methods 82:16 mic 44:3 michael 2:14 5:16 8:19 39:22 124:9 michigan 7:4 9:18,19 41:13 123:9 125:3 126:16,17,22 127:4,20 144:10,20 michigan's 125:10 mid 138:20 144:1 middle 18:5 127:18,21 midst 134:9 mike 7:11 9:11 19:21,22 20:9 36:3,4 52:15 52:16 58:2 66:19 73:16 76:1,3 77:14 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 78:2,4 79:16 83:8,9 87:2,8 108:21 109:19 109:20 120:1 138:2,3 143:6 156:22 157:2 157:22 158:1 mike's 39:18 milestone 15:2 military 13:17 91:4 108:7 116:2 183:10 miller's 32:17 millimeters 76:13 77:7 million 13:16 mind 33:18 44:2 61:16 177:10 183:18 mine 59:14 minimal 71:1 minimum 103:6 minority 2:13 2:16 5:20 6:7 57:17 mint 1:11 4:3,4 7:8,16 11:6 15:5,7,13 19:18 41:4,8 41:18 69:22 70:18 71:1,5,8 79:2,6 83:4 84:3 86:16 87:2 88:16 111:12 120:21 146:10 166:18 179:21 Meeting [mint's - move] mint's 70:11 90:12 125:4 146:19 mintage 70:20 minted 63:22 minting 70:17 mints 40:20 147:1 minute 34:22 67:9,9 89:7,11 89:19,20 111:5 minutes 6:13 11:11,17 12:7 35:2,3 89:14 90:1 126:8 144:13,14 176:22 177:3 misogyny 42:11 missed 21:22 missions 91:13 92:22 93:2 misunderstood 117:6 mix 159:18 mobile 136:11 model 60:22 126:3,7 131:14 132:7,8,9,19 moderated 1:5 modern 22:4 22:21 24:9 26:10 30:14 38:15 82:16,16 84:8 144:1 modernizing 85:14 November 28, 2023 Page 34 modifications 68:3 83:13 modified 145:12 modify 31:10 mohalo 150:22 152:7 154:15 169:17 175:19 moment 58:9 69:15 150:12 165:21 178:18 moments 179:4 momentum 38:16 money 79:18 142:22 monitor 59:3 montague 10:2 10:2 42:3,4 43:10,17,18 44:1,3,6,9 46:15 48:19 49:17 50:6 52:17,17 53:3 53:7,19,20 57:21 58:4,9 58:13 59:21,22 60:1,2,12 62:10,18,19 63:3,7,17 64:2 64:9 68:13 69:16 70:1,6 montague's 49:4 52:5 month 12:22 13:10 43:7 50:10 107:10 months 29:16 moot 80:19 81:4 moran 2:14 5:16,18 19:20 19:22,22 35:22 36:4,5,15,22 52:16,16 53:6 69:9 73:13,16 73:16 78:3,4,5 83:9,9 84:10 84:12,16 87:18 87:22 109:20 109:20 116:17 116:21 117:3 118:13 119:21 120:1,1 124:9 124:10 138:3,3 157:1,2 182:14 morgan 85:16 morning 4:2,14 35:8 88:1 90:9 90:9 95:6 123:4 151:1 152:16 mosaics 18:12 mother 50:7 52:18 53:1,5 59:16 61:10 62:5 66:8 motion 11:16 12:2 36:2,6,6,9 36:13,14,15,17 36:19,22 37:5 37:8,9,13,13 39:3,19,21,22 40:10 68:1,9 68:15 69:5,12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 84:10,11,12,15 84:20 86:6,7 86:12 87:7,8 87:13,15,17 88:4,5,14 116:5,15,16 118:1,9 120:6 121:6,7,15 122:10 126:6 129:6 134:6 138:7,16 145:9 145:15 178:5 180:6,8 185:1 motions 27:6 40:10 69:13 111:16 143:6 145:5,20 177:19 motor 125:16 motto 93:14 96:11,14 98:21 101:8 106:5 108:4 171:14 move 6:9 16:17 23:15 36:5 45:12,19 50:15 66:18 68:3 73:9 78:10 84:16 87:19 88:21 89:15 90:5,9 96:2 97:7 99:14 104:18,19 106:18 116:7 121:3 124:22 145:6 146:15 152:10 153:16 153:21 155:10 Meeting [move - noncommissioned] 177:21 moved 42:15 123:8 125:20 movement 26:12 127:14 moves 11:18 128:21 moving 72:11 72:17 75:14 96:16,17 97:10 108:7 109:14 125:11,22 126:2 155:21 mu'umu'u 170:14 multi 176:7 multiple 147:10 murals 30:5 museum 9:22 11:4 43:22 148:2,22 149:6 150:5 152:19 156:20 161:5 161:11 164:8 165:4 170:5,7 170:9,17 music 28:17 149:7 muster 115:17 116:1 muted 75:10 86:9,10 105:12 139:5 146:4 150:12 154:18 mystery 181:22 n n 2:1 3:1 4:1 98:5 n.n. 165:11,16 169:9,11,17 174:16 naive 85:10 name 5:3 7:17 19:3 22:1 52:5 52:14 124:2 126:21 149:12 152:16 163:7,7 name's 32:18 names 21:2,9 22:22 108:6 110:14 narrow 171:5 nation 13:1 14:20 nation's 13:13 179:19 national 6:15 11:4 14:1 15:7 15:15 34:14 150:5 152:18 155:19 156:1 179:17 nations 15:1 21:10 native 7:6 10:20 11:5 146:17 147:4,8 147:12,16 148:20 149:3 150:6 152:4,18 155:12,14 164:1,2 165:12 November 28, 2023 Page 35 166:21 natives 147:4 naval 42:5,7,8 51:8 63:16 navigate 151:19 navy 42:9,17 43:3,10 44:22 60:19 62:6 nay 12:5 40:8 69:11 121:13 185:7 naye 88:8 near 140:7 nearby 93:8 nearly 184:20 neat 24:11 164:4 necessarily 24:13 77:16 114:17 128:20 136:10 163:5 165:1 172:1 174:3 necessary 88:18 91:19 122:22 neck 172:12 175:11 176:8 need 11:7 22:11 44:18 46:10 84:14 110:12 120:3 129:9 142:11 142:13 164:21 181:13 183:9 negative 103:20 118:22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 157:12 neither 186:11 187:7 never 44:19 64:22 102:13 102:14 137:1 180:22 181:2,3 181:9 184:16 nevertheless 43:5 new 22:5 81:5 92:7,8,9 182:6 news 134:1 nice 19:15 54:3 61:19 131:2,17 137:4 164:5,6 170:8 173:7 nicely 38:7 99:2 106:17 nicer 65:14 night 42:21 nike 16:8 18:9 18:13 nike's 16:9 nine 18:3 21:8 35:8,17 94:16 94:18 100:16 100:18 102:1 105:4 106:21 109:8 nixon 43:6 noble 49:9 noetic 77:1 nomination 71:4 noncommissi... 102:14 Meeting [normal - office] normal 42:13 norman 93:9 normandy 93:4 north 91:16 93:1 norwegian 92:17 notable 149:1 notary 1:21 186:1,20 note 9:15 20:2 46:8 69:18 71:14 73:6 96:6,9,22 156:18 noted 96:9 128:13 notes 149:5,9 noticed 52:3 74:11 111:20 noting 153:21 noun 39:12 november 1:6 4:16 12:11,15 12:22 13:2,10 73:8 number 19:13 20:1 21:22 22:15,16,16,20 23:2 26:11 27:10 35:10,12 35:13,13,14,15 35:15,16,17,17 35:18 36:16,16 37:1,1 39:6 45:14 47:17,21 49:20 51:14 52:21 53:2,2,9 November 28, 2023 Page 36 53:18 56:11 60:5,15 61:5 62:14 64:10,11 64:12,16 67:16 67:17,18,19,20 98:5 103:19 129:7 130:1,15 130:19 131:3,9 131:10,11,12 131:12,13,18 131:22 132:2,3 132:4,6,22 135:2 140:19 143:17 144:5 144:21,22 157:3 158:16 159:5,8,19 168:7,8,10,12 168:13 169:22 172:6 173:6,6 177:10 numbered 101:11 numbers 48:10 numerous 93:19 numismatic 2:20 6:4 127:1 numismatics 2:18 6:1 nut 149:22 nuts 149:21 nw 1:12 o o 4:1 20:10,17 22:6 39:13 40:3 91:21 96:3,5,16,16 104:1,8 105:9 107:20 112:2 116:8 oahu 160:1 objection 12:6 34:12 80:7 objections 12:2 objects 119:1 observations 17:12 98:1 observe 40:15 42:18 83:1 observed 125:18 observer 184:12 observing 44:9 60:5 obstacles 44:12 44:19 obverse 14:1 16:14 17:3,11 19:15 22:12 24:21 25:15 27:3 31:8 34:1 36:6,7 37:1,18 38:9,11,20 39:1,9 41:21 70:22 71:10,16 71:17,21 75:14 85:6 90:10 96:3,5,5,17 97:22 98:4,13 99:10,12 100:3 101:6 105:22 106:17 108:8 108:13 109:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 110:5 113:11 113:15 114:6 116:12 120:2 147:5 172:22 obverses 111:20 obvious 36:3 obviously 52:19 58:17 78:6 159:5 occasions 12:13 occurred 50:11 91:11 occurring 134:7 135:3 ocean 61:9 october 6:14,14 11:12 70:18 71:6 73:22 126:4 odd 85:21 offend 176:10 offer 34:8 70:18 79:2 167:15 offered 56:12 87:8 offering 49:16 71:14 office 2:21 7:18 9:8,11 14:5 21:16 33:10 40:20 46:3 55:19 70:11 90:12 125:4 146:19 Meeting [officer - overcome] officer 104:10 186:2 officers 102:14 112:1,12,12 official 14:14 14:21,22 15:19 offshoot 142:20 oftentimes 57:2 109:22 oh 37:4 150:19 ohana 150:22 153:2 ohio 131:20 okay 4:12 37:2 44:4 47:14 48:3,15 68:1 72:16 75:18 80:16 89:18 90:4 94:7 95:21 97:18 99:14,18 105:13 111:15 112:15 113:1 114:13 115:18 117:9,20 119:20,22 122:14,19 123:1,13 132:1 138:5 151:4 154:9,12,20 155:9 175:14 177:5 178:4 179:2 183:2 185:2 old 27:10,20 66:8 79:10 older 52:19 59:2 134:15 November 28, 2023 Page 37 olds 125:14 oldsmobile 125:15 133:3 ole 158:11,11 oliver 43:8 60:17,21 olympian 20:2 olympic 10:16 10:18 14:11,13 14:16 15:11,15 16:19,19,22 23:5,6 29:6,12 29:20 34:15 48:22 127:3 olympics 6:16 6:18 10:12,14 14:3,4,8,10 15:8,19 16:13 23:7 26:8 29:15,17 34:17 omaha 93:8 99:1 once 63:21 67:8,20 92:21 97:6 144:19 146:18 177:8 177:15 ones 23:10 24:15 60:14 111:7 132:1 134:22 135:20 141:16 161:20 open 44:20 66:20 183:3 operated 92:20 operating 180:16 operation 91:11 126:4 operations 91:6 92:16 112:5 opine 63:7 143:16 opinion 32:11 110:4 opinions 28:6 140:12 183:22 opportunities 45:2 opportunity 21:22 49:21 50:5,19 55:13 127:5 128:5 130:6,8 153:7 172:7,10,16 opposed 12:5 37:7 40:7 53:2 56:4 65:13 66:12 69:10 86:19 88:13 121:13 145:18 173:11,11 176:13 178:8 185:7 option 106:1,1 options 16:16 24:14 order 4:15 11:9 47:19 52:21 64:22 127:10 144:13 179:3 organization 133:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 organized 91:16 oriented 54:5 original 71:1,3 71:7,12,22 72:15,20 74:12 75:12,16,22 76:5,18,22 77:2,3,7 78:7 78:15,16,17 79:15,17 80:5 80:8,18 81:1 81:16 82:6,7 82:11,18 83:7 83:15,16 84:2 84:7,17 85:7 85:17,20 86:3 86:14,15,17,19 86:19,21,22 87:1,19 101:22 130:2 134:20 138:8 149:7 originally 72:7 125:13 originals 76:19 ounce 70:19,19 outcome 186:16 187:12 outlines 172:15 outnumbered 91:20 outside 75:3 outstanding 47:6 104:22 overall 25:20 131:2 136:15 overcome 65:20 Meeting [overcoming - perry] overcoming 44:11,19 overlooking 61:10 overly 50:12 overseas 93:20 overwhelmed 70:3 owe 182:11 own 115:19 118:13 134:2 p p 2:1,1 3:1,1 4:1 p.m. 185:11 pacific 92:20 93:1 paid 181:5 painting 18:11 pair 24:15 paired 106:16 pairing 15:22 pairings 16:16 pairs 106:17 pam 3:5 8:5 pandemic 180:15,19 181:8,15 paper 43:4 58:21 59:1 64:20 160:20 papers 151:10 paralympic 10:16,19 14:11 14:13,17 15:12 16:19,22 29:6 29:12 November 28, 2023 Page 38 paralympics 15:8,19 parasum 10:14 paris 6:18 14:4 14:8 15:11 16:5 17:13 21:4 26:3,8,13 28:19 29:19 34:16 park 126:4 parks 10:1 part 14:21 29:5 30:3,7 46:12 64:5 73:21 83:16 91:12 96:11,14 98:21 122:10,11,15 126:13 127:16 136:11 139:1 141:11 143:1 166:2 172:5 174:8,8 176:12 participants 61:13 participate 14:13 70:2 92:15 participating 12:21 participation 178:19 182:20 particular 18:22 26:11 55:10 57:3,19 58:12 74:2 115:15 130:9 144:3 164:9 170:16 particularly 12:10 20:1 51:22 83:19 110:9 121:17 131:18 133:22 178:13 183:10 parties 186:12 186:14 187:8 187:11 partly 65:3 pass 18:21 98:10,17 99:8 115:16 117:15 117:16,19 140:7 passed 14:18 121:20 passes 121:15 passing 45:9 116:1 passion 47:20 63:8 past 56:12 57:4 128:6 patch 101:5 patented 125:13 patience 121:17 pattern 51:22 patterns 79:4 paul 7:12 pause 167:1 pausing 163:21 pay 126:12 pays 13:1 peace 13:9 85:15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 pediments 32:1 peers 133:16 pele 10:20 150:10,14,16 pen 162:19 163:1 pending 54:10 people 30:7 44:18 50:21 55:2,7 60:20 62:8 63:15,20 64:7,7,15 65:4 65:5 117:4 129:12 133:20 133:21 134:3,4 134:4 136:7 138:17 140:7 142:7,7 143:19 151:8,19,21 167:1,22 169:13,16 181:16 184:5 people's 79:18 183:21 percent 13:15 98:15 perfect 81:6 perfected 168:16 perfectly 165:3 period 63:16 85:11 182:7 periods 74:19 permitted 148:18 perry 43:8 60:18,21 Meeting [persisted - portfolio] persisted 148:18 person 43:2 44:19 62:10 66:16 125:21 128:22 129:16 138:18 170:3,9 181:10 183:15 184:16,19 personal 13:11 50:11 180:14 182:8 personally 29:22 109:21 180:12 181:20 personnel 92:10 persons 10:7 102:11 104:12 perspective 23:18,20,22 25:3 32:10 37:22 54:11 139:14 172:19 176:3 persuaded 54:1 peter 2:19 6:3 10:15 20:7,9 29:11 36:10,20 40:16 51:11,13 68:6 78:11,13 100:13 104:22 105:2 111:18 124:5 130:13 130:15 145:10 159:2,4 177:20 185:4 November 28, 2023 Page 39 phenomenal 50:9 66:16 179:21 phone 5:1 182:17 photo 135:4 photographic 32:6 phrase 109:12 116:13 118:19 119:2,9 141:21 149:16 169:12 physically 12:20 pick 25:7 38:2 138:15 158:22 picking 25:1 picture 50:6 pictures 30:7 30:12 piece 22:3 25:4 25:6,8,12 37:22 38:6,16 38:18,19 125:22 pine 42:14 place 12:11 13:7 40:15 51:21,22 56:3 74:3 110:13 118:4 169:7 173:1 placed 114:7 placeholder 15:20,22 placement 16:2 109:2 places 104:13 planchette 15:17 32:13 130:5 142:9 planchettes 77:20 plane 49:2 planes 132:17 plant 126:5 158:20 platoon 112:6 played 126:13 plays 169:6 pleasant 121:21 please 5:3 7:16 21:16 28:10 31:11 34:17,21 35:3 37:14 61:7 67:6 69:10 73:15 84:15 87:17 88:5 118:8 124:1 135:16 143:16 144:11 162:18 175:1 183:7,9 pleased 43:16 93:22 109:9 126:17 150:1 plenty 113:20 114:9 plod 89:9 point 17:16 25:3 34:6 47:17,19 77:10 78:7 98:20 99:4,21 100:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 108:11 112:16 139:16 145:5 157:12 167:5 170:22 pointe 93:4,6 pointed 80:4 pointless 63:6 points 27:1 32:3 34:9 35:11,12,14,16 67:16,17,19,19 67:20,22 96:10 128:6 133:10 138:1 144:20 144:21,22,22 145:1,2,3 176:4 177:10 177:11,13,13 177:14,16 polish 172:16 polished 76:20 114:8 172:5 pool 91:2 poor 55:7 pop 103:21 pops 162:20 163:7 popular 28:13 28:18 79:22 80:1,1 148:10 population 13:15 portfolio 16:14 19:19 24:20 25:20 45:13 57:20 71:11 83:12 88:21 89:16 107:6,9 Meeting [portfolio - previously] 111:7 114:19 125:1 131:2 135:12 136:16 139:11 146:16 153:22 157:8 157:16 158:16 portfolios 152:20 154:2 portion 108:17 portrait 49:4 56:2 60:10 63:18 66:12,15 69:1 72:1 130:7 163:16 171:16 173:4,7 portraits 46:9 55:9 56:1,1,1 164:6 portray 135:14 posed 135:4 position 65:15 182:22,22 184:13 positive 62:7 possessed 91:17 possibilities 158:21 possibility 34:6 108:22 possible 35:9 35:10 56:20 67:22 79:15 95:13 113:9,17 118:1 128:16 144:20 159:17 177:9 November 28, 2023 Page 40 potential 15:14 16:16 47:17 67:14 potentially 17:13 powerful 139:21 140:21 praise 163:14 pray 12:20 precedent 83:2 precedes 19:1 precise 183:17 predecessor 72:21 prefer 20:4 30:1 60:3,11 78:7,15 79:6 80:5 117:19 164:4 167:6 preference 17:2 45:21 46:6 50:14 51:3,10,14 52:21 58:10 60:13 83:7 106:10,11 112:1 128:13 128:18,19 130:1,19,21 131:8 136:17 137:18 155:13 155:16,16,19 155:22 156:1,3 156:4,17 158:14 159:8 160:13 161:1 164:10 165:4,5 166:4 167:11 168:10 170:1 175:12 176:9 176:10 preferences 49:17 51:20 94:19 103:16 106:3 107:17 109:7 114:18 127:10 132:10 136:18 153:21 156:16 167:20 169:21 170:11 178:1 preferred 96:4 96:5,8,17,19 96:20 prepared 187:3 present 5:3,6,9 5:12,15,18,21 6:2,5 7:17,20 8:1,4,6,9,12,15 8:18,21 9:3,6 9:10 12:21 34:19 35:7 40:21 57:8 67:7 70:12 71:9 90:13 94:11 95:18 124:1,4,6,8,10 124:12,14,16 124:18,20 125:5 146:20 168:8 177:6 presentation 15:9 20:5 presented 41:13,14 60:14 71:5,7 87:22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 159:13 172:1 173:17 presently 74:2 presents 49:10 49:21 71:21 72:18 129:20 preserve 154:22 preserving 13:21 168:17 179:16 president 10:15 43:6 93:5 presidential 91:14 93:17 98:8 100:6,7 101:19,20 108:15,16 presidents 14:17 presiding 14:12 press 7:9 27:20 prestigious 151:6 presume 132:7 pretty 54:8 82:5 111:10 128:2 140:20 prevalent 28:3 prevented 42:11 previous 41:22 56:18 176:3 previously 37:19 125:8 Meeting [price - puts] price 126:12 primary 148:1 principle 20:22 printers 59:1 printing 43:1 prints 170:12 prior 186:5 private 30:20 privilege 102:12 179:7 privileges 50:18 privy 42:1 pro 115:2,4 probably 23:10 27:3 50:21 63:6 134:22 157:16 182:5 problems 98:11 proceed 84:15 proceeding 185:12 187:4 proceedings 7:7 95:6 186:3 186:5,6,9 187:6 process 31:4 32:21 33:21 46:10 53:9 61:11 70:2 103:14 126:1,9 127:16 129:10 136:7 138:7 160:9 175:21 180:13 181:21 182:9 November 28, 2023 Page 41 produced 125:15 148:4 product 128:2 production 50:1 126:7,11 products 10:18 professional 44:22 45:1 professor 10:4 43:19 program 17:21 40:19,21 41:2 41:21 46:8 47:8 49:15 50:4 57:3,15 64:17 69:13,14 70:12 71:15 73:17 74:7 77:15,17 83:11 90:13,16 94:1 97:2 100:12 125:5,9 129:3 137:3,5 145:21 146:20,22 147:15 156:12 178:17 programs 13:19 65:8 123:4 128:6 progress 140:20 project 10:8 47:3 94:2 prominent 147:13,16 153:5 160:21 169:7 promised 127:19 pronounce 16:10 properly 34:9 properties 10:17,19 15:8 16:19,22 29:12 property 29:6 133:6 160:1,2 propose 24:21 41:16 proposed 41:17 71:17,20 72:18 147:14 protect 45:6 protest 27:22 proud 45:6 151:16 160:4 proudly 174:5 proverbs 148:9 provide 34:17 67:6 144:11 153:3 172:7,10 172:16 179:11 provided 14:20 15:7 29:5 69:16 146:3 provides 172:6 provisional 92:11 93:16 101:13 public 1:2,21 2:2,7,10 4:6 5:1,5,11 6:10 6:14 11:12 19:2,9 41:2 56:8 65:22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 66:7 90:16 142:12 147:9 148:7 166:19 179:18,22 180:4 186:1,20 publications 149:2 published 148:4 pukui 10:22 11:1 147:8,12 147:16,21 148:3,11,16,21 149:12 150:1 153:5 154:13 155:17,22 pukui's 149:16 154:3 pull 17:10 49:4 pulled 46:15 punch 64:18,19 64:20 65:1,17 purpose 15:9 134:21 purposes 4:5 83:13 pursuing 42:11 push 65:6 pushed 92:2 pushing 82:7 put 54:5 58:15 61:21 100:4 102:19 118:20 144:5 152:2 puts 50:22 Meeting [quadrant - real] q quadrant 114:6 quaint 153:7 qualified 2:11 2:17,19 5:14 6:1,4 56:21 186:7 quality 52:22 172:18 quarter 50:4 55:11,11 127:4 129:13,14 130:5 143:19 152:22 quarters 147:15 162:14 question 18:4 19:7 31:11 33:1,3 48:8 52:17 53:4 58:2 73:13 75:11,20 81:5 81:9,13,21 100:14,15 102:22 103:11 109:14 110:16 111:1,19 113:4 114:16 118:18 132:5 142:16 159:7 165:7,17 165:22 166:5 171:10 174:22 questions 17:21 18:16 33:2 47:7 49:13 57:15 November 28, 2023 Page 42 69:4 74:6 78:1 87:13 94:10 100:12 102:4 128:3,10 129:2 132:10 152:11 153:16 156:11 165:6 167:1 168:6 169:13 181:5 quick 75:11 77:5 113:4 123:22 174:21 quickly 47:1 73:5 83:14 173:15 quirkiness 78:16,18 80:13 80:15 quite 25:10,12 33:9 51:16 62:14 64:15 79:7 105:6 106:15 108:5 112:18 131:1,2 131:11 134:2,7 134:12 135:6 137:9 151:12 153:6 159:16 162:7,20 174:3 quorum 6:11 124:1,22 r r 2:1 3:1 4:1 20:11,11,19 22:11,11,11 39:13 40:3 57:20 58:1,10 58:10,10 61:5 61:18,21 96:18 96:19,19,19,20 96:20 97:11,11 105:6,7 106:21 107:18 114:16 116:8 137:6,11 137:13 racism 42:10 raid 91:12 raiding 91:6 raids 92:16 raise 109:14 118:20 raised 102:9 120:11 148:12 154:21 162:2 172:4,12,14,15 174:12 ran 180:16 ranger 90:22 91:1,7,16,21 91:22 92:4,5,7 92:8,8,9,11,19 92:20,21 93:3 93:7,10,16 94:15 95:10 101:4,12,13 103:2 112:10 115:7 119:17 ranger's 101:11 rangers 7:1 10:6,9 90:6,11 90:18,20 91:12 91:15,17 92:2 93:12,13,14,18 93:20 94:4,11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 95:10,15,16 96:10 98:7,21 99:2 100:1,6 101:3,8 103:1 103:3,7 107:22 108:1 115:7,9 rank 134:11,22 ranked 138:4 ranks 42:20 ransom 125:14 rapidly 147:21 rather 5:1 26:13 31:6 37:18 78:17 80:4 86:1 96:1 105:6 113:10 132:16 135:4 166:2 167:4 172:9 174:17 176:16 180:14 ratified 72:3 raye 10:2 42:2 42:4 43:18 44:8 46:15 52:5,13 62:10 64:9 rays 23:9 read 32:16 73:22 114:2 144:5 167:4 reads 107:21 ready 46:17,17 154:3 reagan 93:5 real 47:1 53:11 85:16 116:1 141:7 Meeting [realized - reduced] realized 46:9 really 19:15 20:17,17 22:8 23:17 24:11,11 24:19 25:2,3,7 25:13 28:15 31:4 37:20 38:7,19,21 52:18 53:10,14 54:22 55:1,9 56:3 59:7,8 60:15 61:13,17 61:19 62:13,15 75:1 82:8 85:21,22 96:11 103:19,21 104:1,7 105:5 105:6,22 106:4 106:5,17 107:9 110:2 121:16 128:9 129:15 129:22 131:2,3 134:1,3,12 135:11,12 136:5,14 138:20 140:3 141:8,11 142:7 145:22 146:3,8 151:19 153:5,7 153:8 156:8 157:10,18,21 158:7,9,9,22 167:14 170:20 173:15,20 174:10,14 175:7 177:16 178:12 180:1 181:13 182:2 November 28, 2023 Page 43 182:18 183:21 reappoint 182:9 reason 21:4 24:22 36:3 38:19 50:11,14 61:17 82:8 102:9 103:21 104:7 110:21 133:8 135:5 141:7,14 142:4 142:8,14 161:21 176:10 reasonable 123:18 reasonably 80:1 reasons 24:12 27:4 49:21 56:11 58:1 65:16 94:11 103:17 132:19 138:16 141:20 rebirth 94:20 recalibrate 82:17 recall 61:22 received 35:11 35:12,13,13,14 35:15,16,16,17 35:18,18,19,19 45:15 67:5,16 67:17,18,19,20 91:7 98:7 144:21,21,22 145:1,2,2 177:10,11,11 177:13,13,14 177:14,14,15 177:15 recent 95:1 134:1 recently 12:22 181:10 recess 35:1,3 89:20 123:15 123:18 144:13 177:2 recessed 144:14 recognition 90:18 recognizable 20:5 83:20 139:16 recognize 35:7 67:11 98:10 144:16 155:6 177:6 recognized 41:12 49:19 69:20 116:2 recognizing 13:12 56:14 84:7 92:1 147:11 recommend 15:21 36:2 84:16 105:19 116:8 recommenda... 16:1 17:2,6 46:7,13 73:8 73:21 74:4 96:6,21 116:9 120:7 128:14 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 155:17 171:6 recommenda... 17:7 51:15 104:21 105:3,9 105:14 147:9 179:11 recommended 2:8,13,14 5:8 5:16,20 6:6 17:9 31:18 46:1,14 recommending 87:5 reconsider 22:14 reconsidered 17:13 record 7:15 9:15 35:4 45:18 47:2 67:10 69:18 90:3 123:20 144:15 177:4 186:9 187:5 recorded 4:21 186:6 recording 4:4 186:8 187:4 recordings 149:5,8 recreated 71:7 recruited 92:10 redacted 15:20 redesign 47:17 redoubles 143:2 reduced 49:3 126:7,12 186:7 Meeting [reduction - requested] reduction 126:9,10 redundancy 106:14 redundant 109:15 reference 48:12 references 16:4 16:13 referred 125:19 reflect 13:6 145:12 reflected 101:5 reflecting 13:11 179:17 reflection 12:14 24:6 reformed 92:7 regard 112:3 122:3 regarding 31:17 49:13 145:15 153:4 register 180:5 registered 45:1 reintroduce 153:8 reissue 78:19 reiterates 166:1 rejected 119:19 119:20 relate 30:20 75:22 related 186:11 187:7 November 28, 2023 Page 44 relates 29:21 106:10 relating 52:1 relative 59:14 186:13 187:10 relief 30:2 75:1 76:18 77:12,15 77:16,18 83:18 83:19 84:2 85:10,14 religion 148:14 remain 41:21 99:10,12 remainder 70:5 121:21 146:13 remaining 41:14 remains 13:7 remarkable 137:8 163:18 remedied 98:2 remember 13:20 62:1 64:18 102:12 170:10 remembers 46:3 remind 140:5 reminded 29:2 137:7 139:17 164:1 176:12 reminder 12:18 13:4 33:20 reminding 107:8 reminds 53:10 53:13 104:11 141:20 162:13 reminiscent 46:2 remote 34:21 remotely 7:10 180:16 removal 96:12 122:17 removed 99:6 99:12,20 removing 107:17 125:21 render 75:2 rendering 74:20 renderings 80:4 renders 71:6 71:12,13 rendition 73:18 115:15 repeat 36:14 87:16,18 96:22 97:2 122:15 repeated 97:6 97:21 replace 98:9 113:7,22 replaced 98:4 99:7 replacement 92:10 replacing 117:12 replica 85:15 86:1 report 144:12 177:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 reported 1:21 reporter 4:8,9 19:2 represent 95:8 95:14 100:17 137:22 164:18 184:4 representation 57:16 130:17 179:14 representative 10:22 94:3 150:4 152:13 representatives 43:17 121:1 150:3 153:18 155:13,15 represented 61:3 representing 2:2,6,10 5:4,10 6:10 18:13 49:2 72:3 represents 13:18 20:18 45:5 58:8 66:5 reproducing 79:11 reproduction 79:1,5,13,14 85:22 reproductions 79:12,12 request 16:1 71:14 92:5 116:10 128:20 requested 71:8 92:3 Meeting [require - run] require 122:8 required 43:14 126:15 149:13 requirement 46:8,14 47:11 48:20 requirements 15:18 47:10 49:6 109:10 119:11 requires 41:3 117:1 resembling 59:8 reservation 34:11 resided 151:17 resonates 12:13 respect 34:2 63:8,10,18 84:5 88:4 104:15 140:12 184:6 respected 28:21 respectful 184:2 respectively 177:17 respond 5:3 139:4 response 6:8 9:13 29:7 responsibility 102:10 179:11 rest 30:18 116:12 132:13 November 28, 2023 Page 45 resting 49:2 61:9 restrike 79:1,2 restrikes 80:5 restruck 79:5 result 148:3 resulted 91:14 resulting 149:1 results 34:19 35:7 144:12 177:1,7 retain 147:5 retained 98:20 retaining 99:8 retains 72:1,22 retired 94:8 retirement 45:4 revealed 27:19 reverse 14:1 16:15 17:6,8 19:16 22:12,14 24:22 25:10,16 25:21 27:4 31:9 34:2 36:6 36:7 37:2,19 38:10 39:11,18 40:17 41:5 62:14 67:3 70:22 71:11 72:17,18 82:9 85:6 90:10 96:8,18,19,21 97:22 99:13,15 99:22 101:1,10 101:16 106:10 106:12,13,16 106:18 108:8 108:14,16 109:3 110:5 113:7,18,21 116:22 122:18 125:1,5 143:11 144:9 146:17 146:20 147:7 173:11 177:21 review 6:14,18 6:20,22 7:2,5 11:10 13:22,22 40:17 71:8 90:9 107:9 127:5 146:16 reviewed 73:7 reviewing 114:19 reviews 126:19 revised 17:9 71:13 72:11,11 72:15 73:1,6,9 75:12,16 78:8 78:17 80:7,18 81:5 82:6 revisions 71:10 reynolds 10:17 11:3 152:13,15 152:17 154:1,6 154:16 ribbon 100:8 108:16 rich 179:10 richard 32:17 32:18 right 22:11 25:18 40:6 45:19 55:5 66:18 70:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 72:2,13 79:1 79:13 90:2 99:15 101:17 102:2 110:4,19 110:20 111:5 113:1 118:4 123:15 131:1 135:21,22 136:4,10,12 138:13 140:7 152:12 157:17 158:13 160:15 163:3 164:14 167:6 169:5 179:2 181:15 185:3 rise 42:20 risk 27:9 rituals 148:14 road 80:6 robert 70:15 robust 18:19 rock 10:5 42:5 43:21 roger 3:4 8:2 175:20 role 169:7 roll 123:22 roman 27:22 ron 10:7 94:1 97:18 room 113:22 rough 42:8 round 182:12 rows 144:2 run 4:20 83:14 184:6 Meeting [running - see] running 58:11 61:1 runs 183:17 rush 85:12 russ 53:8 russell 3:6 8:7 s s 2:1 3:1 4:1 sacagawea 147:6 sacrifice 93:18 sacrifices 13:5 13:12 107:10 safeguarded 13:9 safest 164:21 sailors 45:7 sake 119:1 183:3 sale 19:9 salem 151:17 152:6 salerno 96:7,22 98:4,9,13 99:6 99:19 113:15 117:12 salute 13:16 49:22 samothrace 16:10 18:9 satisfactory 157:12 saunders 2:13 6:6,8 26:21 33:8,17,19 48:6,9,15 64:4 68:17,20 75:11 November 28, 2023 Page 46 75:18 80:17 84:21 85:3 86:11 87:10 105:13 124:19 124:20 131:8 133:10 142:17 160:18,18 savings 126:11 saw 32:21 50:6 61:2 115:14 138:19 173:16 saying 28:4 63:17 69:6,11 86:13 87:10 88:5 113:20 121:11 131:16 145:16 157:22 178:6 sayings 148:10 148:10 says 30:16 65:7 66:5,9,10 scale 49:3 61:3 61:8 138:21,22 scarinci 2:16 5:19,21 21:14 27:15 30:10 47:19 54:22 69:8 78:22 88:9 104:20 124:7,8 129:5 157:21 171:7 171:20 172:21 173:3 180:7,11 181:3 scene 105:8 scheduled 4:20 scholar 147:17 153:5 scholars 148:22 school 42:9 103:2 166:10 scientific 69:21 scientist 69:20 score 31:7,10 34:1,1,7,13,17 35:9 67:3,6,15 88:16 122:7 143:11 144:8 144:20 176:19 177:9 scores 67:7,15 144:12 scoring 31:13 33:21 35:7,9 35:11,20 67:14 67:18 176:22 177:9,12 scotland 91:10 scott 70:16 scouting 91:6 scroll 101:11 115:7 sculpt 77:2,3 sculptor 158:4 sculptors 85:12 sculptural 32:1 85:11 sculptures 32:19 sea 62:13 seamstress 170:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 search 77:6 searching 50:6 62:9 second 11:20 11:22 36:6,8 36:11,19,21,22 37:3,4,9 51:21 61:7 68:7 74:20 84:18 96:4 106:2 116:14,16 118:10 121:6 132:2 133:5 142:18 145:8 145:11 161:12 174:8,8,8 180:17 185:2,4 185:4 secondary 45:21 128:18 155:15 156:1,4 172:13 seconds 178:3 secretary 6:13 11:11 15:6 41:4,11,18 46:1 179:12 security 13:10 see 16:15 17:10 21:3,4 22:18 23:2,8,19,19 25:2,9 30:17 38:4,12,12,13 46:16 47:20 49:17 58:15 60:7 63:13,15 66:14 69:13 86:15 94:13,17 Meeting [see - ship] 100:8,17 101:1 101:4,7,10,11 101:16 102:1 104:4,10 106:6 109:11 111:3,4 112:22 113:10 115:6,21 119:6 123:17 128:7 129:15 136:12 142:9,10,15 149:14 152:12 154:2 158:1,20 162:16 163:1,2 163:7,17 165:15 169:18 172:13 173:5,6 176:20 178:14 181:12 183:1 seeing 15:21 17:8 18:17 21:18 34:12 39:21 61:1 78:1 129:3 136:6,7 178:5 seeking 15:6 seem 87:5 105:4 142:3 seemed 77:7 140:19 164:17 seems 22:12 80:18 106:20 121:14 130:18 131:15 173:13 177:22 seen 29:17 31:19 57:18,18 96:15 118:22 127:20 135:18 November 28, 2023 Page 47 184:16 sees 66:8,10 segment 56:16 seldom 95:11 selected 44:14 91:2 94:21 119:5 selecting 43:1 selection 180:13 selections 20:14 110:5 selfishly 13:5 seminary 148:16 senate 2:14,16 5:17,20 155:20 156:2,4 164:10 175:9 send 34:21 senior 3:2,4 7:13,21 8:2 9:4 9:7 10:9,15,17 sense 48:2 56:9 58:7,19 59:14 66:14 108:18 138:6,8 141:8 sent 174:9 sentence 18:21 separate 59:5 71:15 separated 107:19 separating 72:10 116:11 116:12 september 29:16 sequoia 164:1 sergeant 94:8 102:6 series 55:1,3,10 55:12 56:2,19 83:3 129:8 130:8,10 151:8 157:3 158:10 160:19 161:2,3 161:18,20 162:13,13,17 163:9 164:15 165:5 167:8,21 167:21 168:7 168:11 171:11 171:12 172:6 173:5,12 serve 102:15 184:11 served 60:20 102:13 151:18 184:10 serves 12:17 13:4 31:22 service 43:11 47:4 56:4 90:19 104:12 140:13 183:10 services 9:22 serving 13:17 14:22 50:18 102:12 179:5 session 4:19 6:12 121:19 179:3 set 21:17 33:10 65:4 106:22 159:14 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 setting 83:2 settings 150:16 seven 22:16,20 24:10,10 35:14 35:15,16 91:1 93:15 100:1 106:1,6,17,20 106:21 115:8 144:1 145:2 several 119:7 127:15 131:9 141:1,10 150:2 150:2 shade 74:13,22 shape 13:13 shaped 42:1 share 12:9 29:2 65:22 66:6 82:22 83:6 97:19 127:8 167:20 178:16 179:4 180:14 shared 46:13 73:22 74:1 148:6 164:15 shares 159:6 sharing 71:18 148:19 163:14 sheet 31:10 34:1 sheets 34:17 67:6 144:11 shift 54:10 82:9 82:9 shifts 72:12 73:2 ship 42:8 43:1 43:3,4 49:1 Meeting [ship - soldiers] 53:12 55:5,7 55:15 62:12 63:14,16 64:13 ships 42:7 45:7 shirt 158:2 short 37:20 shoulder 46:9 101:4 shoulders 47:10,12 54:11 54:17 68:4 shout 24:10 shouts 137:19 show 59:3 66:8 95:18 135:21 140:10,20 141:12 143:3 161:5 169:5 showed 53:15 showing 23:22 58:22 61:19 141:10 shown 53:2 101:7 140:22 163:20 173:22 175:22 shows 38:6 51:6 57:21 64:10,12 65:2 65:18 81:6 127:13,14 134:5,6 139:14 141:8 shrunk 139:19 139:22 shy 155:1 side 21:1,7,9,11 30:1 31:5,6,7 November 28, 2023 Page 48 96:7 100:5,7 109:16 113:17 118:5 152:6,7 sides 117:5 sign 16:8 signal 15:1 signature 186:19 187:15 signed 7:10 151:11 significance 168:22 179:13 179:18 significant 50:5 138:1 169:10 signify 69:6,11 88:5 145:16 178:6 silhouette 114:21 silhouettes 115:4,13 silver 6:22 15:7 70:10,19 71:3 71:21,22 72:4 72:5,7,19 76:4 77:15 80:1 83:22 84:1 139:20 163:18 similar 105:17 131:9,12 176:7 similarities 159:6 simple 38:19 170:3,9,14,15 170:15 simpler 131:10 simplicity 132:4 156:20 157:11 164:20 simplified 173:20 simplify 173:18 simplistic 170:17 simply 45:14 single 18:21 125:10 sir 7:11 35:1 67:1 74:9 75:6 75:10 77:21 86:9 102:8 139:5 146:4,12 173:2 sisters 166:12 168:12 sit 184:19 site 118:3,3 situation 55:20 105:15 six 16:22 17:1 20:1 23:2 24:16,18 35:15 92:21 100:2 104:1 128:18 128:18 130:1 132:2 134:2 135:2 136:16 137:17 138:6 138:10,16 140:12 141:3,7 142:15 144:5 145:2,7 size 32:15 92:15 139:15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 139:19,20 140:4 142:12 143:17,17 skilled 149:2 skills 186:10 187:6 sky 114:6 skylines 16:5 slaughterhouse 125:18 slaughterhou... 136:4 sleek 22:21 slight 71:9 73:5 slightly 17:9 72:12 73:2 small 95:9 110:11,16,18 120:3 127:22 137:11 138:22 140:3,18 170:12 smaller 49:5 76:6 92:16 smallest 179:19 smile 50:22 69:1,2 smiling 49:18 54:3 65:13 smithsonian 152:12 153:18 smithsonian's 150:5 smithsonian’s 11:4 soldiers 92:4,9 101:6 Meeting [solemn - stands] solemn 13:4 solicit 184:17 solid 32:8,9 somebody 33:9 64:5 65:19 87:18 132:8 168:15 somewhat 134:10 son 10:2 43:17 44:8 147:6 songs 148:4 sonya 187:2,16 sorry 23:11 47:9 53:16 87:17 90:9 105:13 113:19 119:15 123:12 135:11 143:14 143:19 150:18 163:4 176:10 sort 22:4 26:9 49:18 52:12 110:15 111:3 127:10 138:20 141:4,20 171:5 sound 144:3 153:4 sounding 27:9 sounds 52:13 54:12 123:18 145:19 178:9 source 148:1 149:15 165:19 169:11,15 174:16 southern 100:21 November 28, 2023 Page 49 space 24:2,3,7 24:11 73:4 99:8 103:20 108:2 113:7,20 114:9 117:17 117:18 118:22 157:12 spacing 85:7 speak 37:12 46:17 48:17 58:9 74:1 83:12 86:8 97:14 108:21 138:18 151:1 175:8 180:12 speaker 2:8 5:8 88:8,12 98:16 121:8 123:11 150:11 185:8 speakers 149:4 speaking 19:4 39:22 87:8 113:19 148:18 speaks 136:14 150:21 special 12:11 60:16 112:5,17 specialist 9:8 specially 2:11 2:17,19 5:14 5:22 6:4 specific 15:17 132:15,18,19 133:1 specifically 54:12 103:6 127:6 147:12 specifications 43:1 speech 93:5 speechless 78:5 spell 21:1,2 22:1 spencer 10:9 94:4,6,9 95:4 98:15,19 102:5 102:18 103:4 115:12 119:14 119:16 122:4 spend 39:17 165:8 spent 103:5 spirit 12:18 split 105:22 114:5 spoke 23:11 27:9 48:21 134:3 148:13 spoken 135:1 168:2 spokes 128:1 145:12 sponsors 109:21 110:1 spread 72:21 stack 64:19 157:13 staff 7:16 111:13 120:9 179:21 stafford 2:21 7:18,20 8:6 14:4,7 16:12 18:6 19:10 29:1 32:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 34:10 40:20 41:1 44:5 45:11 47:13 48:12 70:10,14 71:19 73:20 74:16 75:17 76:1,7 77:5,9 87:16,21 88:2 90:12,15 95:21 97:5,18 98:14 98:18 99:5,14 99:18 108:20 108:21 117:18 120:18,20 122:8,14,18,22 123:2 125:3,7 128:8 146:18 146:21 150:10 150:15,19 151:3 152:9 153:14 155:9 172:8 stage 14:18 stakeholder's 137:3 stakeholders 40:12 114:11 147:10 stand 103:21 131:3 173:10 173:20 174:13 standalone 59:5 standpoint 31:4,20 34:3 61:18 174:11 stands 24:8 173:8 Meeting [star - suggestions] star 81:3 stars 72:2,13 75:14 start 4:12 28:14 36:2 62:9 83:13 85:13 129:4 136:22 140:20 153:22 154:7 started 152:19 157:8 starting 4:7 17:7 71:16 123:16 128:12 155:11 starts 157:3 state 19:3 41:9 41:19 44:14 66:4,6 149:21 174:6,7 states 10:10,16 10:18 14:9 15:5,8 29:15 29:17 41:6,12 42:9,17 43:3 43:15 70:17 72:3 73:1,2 90:17,20 91:5 94:5 95:9 126:16 147:1 149:13 160:7 165:10,16 171:13 172:22 static 39:12 135:2 station 42:18 stationed 92:13 November 28, 2023 Page 50 statue 18:10 status 166:20 staunch 151:14 stay 83:15 84:1 84:6 87:19 89:2 99:19 steep 159:12 steers 62:22 step 176:21 steps 126:9 steve 126:22 steven 9:18 126:18 136:22 142:18 stick 84:17 123:7 stipulations 106:21 stood 62:11 stopped 93:9 138:19 stories 147:22 149:8 story 50:9 64:13,15 65:11 storytelling 179:18 straight 65:14 125:9 174:17 strange 176:2 streamed 4:22 street 1:12 28:1 28:5,17,20 29:4 30:3,4,11 30:12,19 160:3 169:1 strength 120:21 131:4 strike 81:12 85:20 stroke 103:18 strong 16:20 17:4 19:16 32:2 57:22 59:17 105:5,7 130:19,20 131:1 139:12 176:9,9 182:2 stronger 171:5 strongly 98:19 164:11 170:5 struck 20:2 26:7 59:8 61:11,17 62:13 70:16 structural 32:5 32:7 struggled 157:7,16 student 133:15 students 53:16 studies 126:6 studying 157:8 stuff 137:20 158:18 184:14 stunning 22:17 style 38:14,15 52:4,6,7 85:11 styles 28:13 stylistically 24:8,15 80:22 81:2 85:8 subject 153:18 subjective 141:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 submachine 111:21 112:2,8 112:11 submissions 159:19 160:10 submit 86:3 subsequent 34:7 167:8 subsequently 41:18 substantial 171:1 success 172:7 172:10 successful 91:13 92:22 successfully 26:2 85:20 succinct 59:18 sufficiently 19:1 suganuma 154:20 168:20 suggest 18:20 31:3,7 87:1 103:22 123:7 123:15 127:21 128:15 suggested 51:15 96:11 suggestion 45:22 52:3 128:15 160:11 suggestions 17:16 95:1 96:1 100:10 139:10 Meeting [sukrita - technically] sukrita 3:8 8:13 sullivan 3:2 7:21 8:1 summarize 114:22 summer 6:16 6:18 10:12 14:2,4,8,9 15:11 29:21 34:15,16 sunshine 79:6 support 18:22 19:17 22:14 37:17 51:13,20 56:10 60:19 78:17 79:16 103:16 104:20 105:2,9,14 106:13 107:6 107:16 110:8 137:13 170:7 supported 180:2 supporter 161:18 supportive 27:10 suppose 56:17 supposed 112:9 sure 18:15 23:7 25:22 29:11 30:19 31:9,12 33:9,22 34:3 45:17 55:18 82:4 86:18 100:20 102:11 110:22 111:10 November 28, 2023 Page 51 111:10 112:22 122:9,15 123:12 128:3 130:16 134:11 142:21 161:1 165:11 181:6,7 184:17 surprised 24:4 surrealistic 86:22 surrounded 26:15 72:2 169:2 surrounds 72:20 surviving 95:17 sustained 147:19 swift 55:1 swing 169:4 swirls 172:2,17 switched 74:13 sworn 186:5 sykes 91:8 101:9 syllabary 164:2 symbol 26:17 91:8 symbolic 14:19 symbolically 18:13 symbolism 175:6 symbolized 149:20 symmetry 129:18,18 130:15 131:16 system 43:1 61:10 125:19 t t 126:3,7 131:14 132:7,8 132:9 table 25:8 38:2 86:6 87:14 88:4 145:15 185:1 tabletop 141:22 142:1 tackle 56:21 take 22:6 30:7 35:2 37:4 40:12 42:20 43:4 56:5 69:15 89:6,13 89:19 118:21 123:22 129:16 144:13 168:5 170:2 176:21 178:11,18,22 179:4 taken 20:1 186:3,12 187:9 takes 24:1 40:15 81:10 talk 169:22 talked 23:11 57:15 114:19 115:20 133:15 137:13 166:11 170:4 talking 28:4,16 58:20 85:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 120:22 140:9 143:22 154:7 tally 34:18 67:7 144:12 tandem 49:5 tape 64:20 tapes 64:20 task 43:5 169:20 tasks 26:4 taste 24:18 170:15 tate 9:7 taught 148:14 148:17 tax 9:19 taylor 10:17 40:16 teach 165:21 166:9 teachable 165:21 teaching 166:9 team 121:3 teams 33:10,12 65:5 technical 17:20 18:4 47:7 49:13 52:2 61:6,18 74:6 81:21 100:11 100:14 113:4 127:22,22 129:2 132:5 156:11 technically 60:2 81:7 Meeting [technological - thing] November 28, 2023 Page 52 technological thank 7:14 80:5 14:7 16:12 technologies 17:19 18:14 82:17 19:6,12,20,21 technology 20:7,14,15,16 84:8 20:19,20 21:11 tell 33:12,15 21:13 23:13,13 44:12 104:1 23:16 25:16,17 telling 24:1 26:20 28:7,8 99:3 28:22 29:13,14 tells 64:13 30:9 31:2,15 tend 29:13,22 33:4 36:4,18 161:20 37:15 39:1,2,5 tennessee 39:19,20 40:12 92:19 40:15 41:1 tension 165:20 44:5,7 45:10 term 116:2 45:11 46:22 183:1 47:14 48:15,16 terms 24:17 50:16,17 51:10 26:14 33:6 51:11,12,17 52:22 58:20 52:14,15 53:19 64:9 68:4 53:22 54:20 73:19 77:17 56:7 57:11,12 162:22 175:4,4 58:2,3,4 60:3 175:5,6 178:17 62:17,18,22,22 179:6 63:2,4,22 64:1 terrain 91:18 64:2 65:20,21 territories 41:7 66:17 67:13 tertiary 128:13 69:12,15,15 test 141:22 70:1,1,4,6,14 testifying 186:5 73:11 74:5 texas 41:14 75:4,18,19 text 54:5,6 76:16 77:8,19 148:11 172:1 77:22 78:4,9,9 texture 172:3 78:12 79:19,21 textured 172:3 80:9,10 81:18 172:14 81:20 82:13,19 83:8 84:4 86:4 86:5 87:21 88:2 90:15 94:7 95:4,19 95:21 98:14 99:5,15 101:17 102:2 103:10 105:1,10,11,20 105:21 107:1,2 107:4,7,12,13 107:15 108:10 109:4,18,19 110:6 111:12 114:13,15 115:11,18 118:7 121:5,16 121:19 122:2,4 122:5,19 123:2 125:7 126:21 128:8,22 129:1 130:12,14 131:5,6 132:13 133:11,13 135:7,8,10 136:18,19,21 137:13,15 138:2,11 140:12 141:17 143:10 144:7 144:18 145:4 145:22 146:5 146:12,14,21 151:3 152:1,11 152:11 153:14 154:16 155:8,9 156:7,8 157:1 157:19 159:1,3 160:15,16,17 160:19 161:15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 161:17 162:8,9 162:11 163:10 163:12,13 164:11,12 167:12,13,18 169:17 171:7 174:19 176:18 177:18 178:12 178:18 179:1 179:20 182:9 184:11 thankful 50:13 94:22 155:6,7 thankfulness 12:18 thanks 13:18 78:20 111:11 163:9 164:14 thanksgiving 12:12,14 13:6 13:14 that'd 33:17,19 54:18 76:12 theatre 92:21 theatres 93:2 theme 60:4 147:11 themes 57:14 147:10 theoretically 114:1 thing 30:11,17 33:8 65:6 66:6 76:17 78:6 81:5 85:21 114:4 132:1 133:18 157:4 158:19 160:12 Meeting [thing - timeline] 175:16 181:12 183:11 184:15 things 54:7 55:16 57:7 58:16 61:1 65:2,18 76:17 81:13 86:20 95:15 110:11 110:14 127:7 127:12,20 151:15 168:1 170:14 think 18:7 19:14 20:10,18 21:22 22:4,6 22:11,17,17 23:3,6,7 24:1,2 24:5,12 25:1,6 26:2 28:12,17 28:19 30:21 31:17 32:4,7,8 32:22 33:13 37:20 38:19 39:10,12,14 44:17 45:4 47:22 48:19 49:10 51:16,21 54:3,4,18 55:2 55:10,15,21 56:12 57:7,14 57:19 59:7 62:8,21 63:20 64:14 68:21,22 74:12 78:18 79:18,22 80:2 80:7,14 81:2,8 81:14 82:7,14 83:6,10,14 November 28, 2023 Page 53 84:14 86:20 87:10,19 88:15 95:13 97:16 98:3 99:12 102:6 103:5 104:12 105:6 105:16 106:3,4 106:7,8,8,9,12 106:17,22 107:5,17 111:8 113:4 114:2,5 114:8 115:3,5 117:1 120:2,10 123:3 129:5,7 129:8,10,10,17 130:6,8,19,20 130:22 131:2,3 131:21 132:3 135:13,14,17 136:5,16,17 137:8,21 139:12,17,20 140:3 141:3,7 141:22 143:1,2 144:4 156:17 158:2,9,15,18 158:21 159:13 160:6,20 162:3 162:20 163:6 163:15,16 164:4,5 165:13 165:15 167:8 168:18 169:16 170:8 172:5,16 173:8,15 176:3 176:6 181:12 181:18 182:5 182:11,18 184:5,6,22 thinking 25:21 56:19 165:9 169:14 third 96:17,19 106:2 127:11 151:9 thompson 111:21 112:7 112:11,14,17 112:19 thompson's 112:2 thought 12:8 23:16 24:10 52:1 54:6 57:22 60:6 61:6,14 106:1 133:17,21 134:5,6,7,11 138:6,17,19 161:6 168:1 184:7 thoughtful 23:14 107:14 thoughts 17:15 58:11 97:9,14 97:19 108:6 114:22 149:4 161:2 163:14 167:9 thousand 93:15 three 10:19 15:16 16:20 24:2 29:20 32:12,14 35:12 35:13,13 38:7 41:16 46:20,20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 48:9 50:4 65:15 67:18,19 92:6 128:17 129:7 130:3,16 131:12 134:10 135:16 136:14 136:17 137:19 138:1,18,18 139:2 141:1 142:8 143:17 144:1,2,22 145:1 153:19 161:3,12 163:18 180:15 threw 59:19 thursday 12:15 13:7 tidworth 92:13 tied 35:11 54:8 time 4:17,22 11:8 12:10,15 25:2 27:6 28:15 29:13,14 39:17 40:12 50:7 56:9,9 59:2,6 61:16 63:16 66:14,15 74:19 111:17 115:14 118:16 118:16 119:9 126:6,7,9 133:18 140:8 141:1 143:6 147:20 151:19 165:9 170:10 178:11 182:4 timeline 141:4 Meeting [times - tucker] times 30:16 57:7 81:9 119:7 178:14 tiny 129:12 tire 131:20 136:10,11 140:4 tires 140:9 titles 148:4 today 7:16 21:18 28:22 29:14 43:17 61:13 65:10 71:12 93:21 95:2 121:21 125:1 126:17 134:18 137:6 151:8,12 153:12 158:4 169:12 179:22 today's 4:19,21 6:12 179:3 together 61:16 95:12 178:14 181:11 toggle 73:5 told 53:8 102:15 121:18 took 13:7 91:12 tool 176:11,13 top 26:17 32:19 48:10 76:5 99:7 100:8 110:20 113:14 136:18 141:1 177:12 topic 27:18 November 28, 2023 Page 54 torch 16:13 23:5 torso 46:12,16 48:17 total 110:20 totally 30:13 touched 57:14 181:6 tour 169:3 tourism 10:1 tourist 94:19 tourists 160:2 169:5 toward 26:1 73:3 82:9 towards 21:5 29:22 32:3 62:22 80:14 82:7 106:19 141:19 156:17 161:21 168:12 tower 16:6 26:15 toy 49:9 track 89:2 110:2 tracks 138:19 tractor 58:21 tradition 91:5 traditional 38:1 139:20 162:21 174:5 176:1 traditions 13:13 148:14 trained 91:4 92:4 training 91:9 transcriber 187:1 transcript 187:3,5 transcriptionist 186:8 transition 25:15 38:5,14 translate 174:11 176:15 translated 148:1 translates 149:15 translating 168:3 translation 165:18,19 166:5,14 167:6 167:7,11 168:6 175:7 translations 147:18 translator 149:2 tread 83:5 treasurer 179:12 treasury 11:12 15:6 41:4,11 treat 36:7 37:1 tree 149:21 174:7,7 trees 26:15 tremendous 179:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 trial 126:2 triangle 110:20 triangular 111:4 tribunal 9:19 tried 18:8 tries 132:22 trifling 158:16 triomphe 16:7 triomphe's 31:22 troops 104:11 112:5 troubles 107:21 true 84:1 136:5 186:9 187:5 try 44:10,20 84:1 118:17 132:16 133:8 trying 28:5 32:10 33:11,12 65:4 75:13 85:4 108:12 110:14 133:3 137:21 150:20 152:3 160:11 166:7 172:19 tucker 2:17 5:22 6:2 19:5,6 19:12 33:3 39:4,4 47:15 47:16 57:11,12 59:20 60:3 62:18,20 79:21 79:22 107:15 107:16 109:4 114:15 115:11 Meeting [tucker - university] 115:18 120:5,6 124:17,18 136:21 163:12 tuesday 1:6 4:16 tunnel 137:8 turn 25:9,17 38:10 39:17 54:20 80:11 81:18 82:19 107:14 110:6 130:13 131:7 136:20 138:11 157:19 159:2 161:15 162:10 163:11 164:12 171:3 turning 38:16 turns 83:3 twice 26:16 two 10:7 12:13 13:19 15:4 16:20 19:17 21:6,10 22:1,9 22:22 27:11 32:1 35:12,17 35:20 36:5,16 39:7 41:12,14 43:4 46:5 47:18,21 50:1 51:14 52:6,18 52:22 53:2,10 54:9,9,19 56:11 60:5,11 62:22 64:11 65:12 67:17,18 67:21 68:3,22 85:6 86:2,17 November 28, 2023 Page 55 86:20 87:2 91:15 94:20 105:16 106:7 110:11 119:18 128:12 130:4 130:19 131:3 131:11 132:22 134:22 135:1 138:5 144:21 154:3 158:8,15 161:2,3 163:22 164:10 165:6 168:9 179:6 180:3 182:15 type 29:3 45:3 58:19 59:1 112:5 169:2 typewriting 186:7 typically 12:8 14:15,20,21 39:10 43:3 161:8 171:2 typist 42:17 u u 98:5 u.s. 4:3,4 7:8 7:16 13:15 16:19,21 17:2 29:6,12 89:21 90:5 91:1,14 91:21 155:18 166:18 uaw 134:1 ubiquitous 28:2 uh 4:11 77:9 ultimate 93:18 unanimous 145:20 unanimously 121:15 178:10 uncertainty 83:1 uncle 62:2,3 uncles 62:4 under 30:6 43:9 48:14 151:14 underneath 113:15 160:7 underreported 49:22 underscored 179:17 understand 31:19 44:18 63:17 79:9 85:8 86:13 114:17 118:15 131:11,16 159:16 178:12 understanding 77:13 78:14 87:4 89:1 112:17 understood 160:8 undertakings 148:3 unfortunately 22:21 unidentified 88:8,12 98:16 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 121:8 123:11 150:11 185:8 uniform 101:5 uniformity 176:4 uniformly 119:19 unimportant 80:19 unique 41:22 57:6 162:20 166:22 uniqueness 162:15 unit 72:10 91:14 92:18 93:11,17 98:8 100:6,7 101:20 101:21 108:15 110:10 118:4 united 10:10 10:16,18 14:9 15:5,8 29:15 29:17 42:8,16 43:2,15 70:16 73:1,2 90:17 90:20 91:5 94:5 95:9 126:16 147:1 149:13 160:7 165:10,15 171:13 172:21 units 90:22 91:4,6 92:6 unity 12:19 university 10:5 42:13,14 43:20 Meeting [unlawful - want] unlawful 28:15 unnecessarily 86:4 unnecessary 110:16 unser 7:11 update 86:22 updated 46:2 71:11,22 upper 108:17 114:6 uppers 108:14 urban 19:13 urgency 43:5 use 6:15 10:11 14:2 30:22 34:14 52:3 65:9 81:10 93:14 114:21 140:17 182:19 used 15:15 44:20 45:2 59:1,15 120:16 125:14 147:6 169:12 useful 12:9 uses 24:3,7 using 43:3 55:14,14 63:14 81:10 82:16 84:8 91:3 96:15 126:5 182:1 usually 23:19 23:19 65:7 157:17 utility 31:19 November 28, 2023 Page 56 utilizing 91:5 v validated 28:7 valuable 88:16 value 49:17 valued 28:15 137:3 valuing 134:3 van 2:19 6:3,5 11:21 20:8,9 20:13 36:10,10 36:20,20 37:3 51:12,13 68:6 68:6 78:12,13 84:18 100:13 100:13 101:17 102:2 105:1,2 111:18,18 112:15 113:1 116:14 124:5,6 130:14,15 145:10,10 159:3,4 160:15 177:20,20 180:10 182:10 185:3,4 variety 75:13 184:4 various 132:15 149:18 179:8 vase 18:11 vasquez 3:4 8:2 8:4 vehicles 132:15 132:18 133:7 verb 39:11 version 72:11 72:12 73:2,22 74:12,20 80:7 83:19 85:7 versions 72:19 73:9 76:22 versus 30:6 66:1 75:12 175:9 veteran 13:2 veterans 12:13 13:1,4,16 50:10 89:22 90:6,18 107:8 119:17 121:1 vice 10:3,15 43:18 victories 18:11 victory 16:9,9 30:1 vietnam 43:7 50:12 view 19:1 25:3 27:1 33:6 135:19,22 136:6 viewers 25:14 views 170:21 171:8 virginia 60:19 137:7 virtually 12:21 vision 46:18 144:3 visiting 125:17 visual 16:4 visually 39:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 vitality 127:13 voice 63:8 161:10 volunteers 91:2 92:12 vote 22:7 27:3 145:3 voting 55:21 56:5 79:17 82:11 86:17,20 86:21 144:19 182:22 w waikiki 169:4 wait 47:20 111:5 167:10 waiting 20:11 waiver 31:14 walked 65:5 walking 175:20 wall 158:6 want 9:14 24:9 24:12 25:4,5,7 27:13 28:12 33:5,22 38:1 38:22 44:16 45:14 46:18 50:17 51:4 58:14 63:11 81:5,10 84:11 86:2 89:6 95:3 97:14 105:5 109:21 111:13 115:1 121:16 121:19 122:9 122:15,20 123:22 133:3 Meeting [want - women's] 139:3 140:12 142:18 144:3 152:8 154:6 156:8 163:14 165:8,11 166:13 167:9 167:20 169:22 181:20 182:8 182:14 183:19 wanted 31:16 47:2 94:16,17 100:17,17 101:1,8,9,10 101:14,15 115:6,21 117:14 119:6 155:3 168:19 168:20 173:20 181:19 wants 56:2 122:7 war 7:1 10:6 13:4 43:7 89:22 90:6,11 90:18,19,21,22 92:2 94:4,11 94:15 97:2,6 98:7 99:10,19 100:2 101:15 103:8 107:17 107:19,21 108:3 109:15 110:12 112:4 113:8,22 114:4 115:7 116:11 116:12,22 122:11 November 28, 2023 Page 57 warm 51:6 warren 2:4 4:2 4:3,10,12,18 7:9,11 8:22 9:3 9:10 34:20,21 35:5 48:5 68:17 71:18 75:7,10 84:21 86:10 88:20,21 89:6,15,18,21 90:4 122:1,6 123:6,7,13 139:5,8 146:4 150:9,13 154:18 177:2 washington 1:13 42:16 waste 79:18 watching 140:14 water 49:2 164:18 wavering 80:13 way 26:14 28:14 31:20 32:2 33:10 39:8 44:21 45:8 46:11 48:19 49:6 59:12,21 60:13 66:13 69:3 81:6 82:8 85:5 93:12,13 96:10 98:21 99:3 101:8 102:19 106:5 107:19 107:22 108:1,2 108:4 110:3 112:1 114:10 125:12 158:2 159:21 169:3,9 171:12,17,21 171:22 174:14 175:21 176:14 ways 18:8 24:1 27:2 81:8,8 106:14 153:1 165:2,9,13 166:7 we've 23:11 57:3,15 65:22 66:2 95:13 114:19 118:22 123:4 127:4 132:14 137:13 142:11 156:16 175:5 182:17 184:6 wearing 46:3 162:1,5,6 website 166:18 week 73:7 weeks 141:4 weigh 33:5 96:2 183:9 weighting 17:12 weinman 3:3 9:4,6 34:5,5,18 34:22 35:7,8 36:1 47:1 67:7 67:12,13 86:9 88:18 105:12 122:17 132:20 132:21 144:17 144:18 177:1,6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 177:8 welcome 53:20 62:19 63:3 went 64:20 130:6 133:15 138:3 151:10 160:9 161:1 173:10 whatsoever 79:8 wheels 128:1 whimsical 23:4 white 9:11,13 172:4 who've 181:5 william 85:12 91:21 125:16 willing 98:12 wing 18:12 winged 16:9 18:10 wings 16:9 72:21 winter 29:21 wintory 9:21 43:22 wisdom 148:20 149:4 wish 82:22 121:21 witness 186:4 woman 59:17 63:21 women 13:5 50:1,2 147:13 147:15 women's 43:14 50:3 55:11 Meeting [wonder - zooming] wonder 29:8 58:9 108:1 167:2 wondered 52:8 wonderful 44:7 50:2 62:20 63:21 107:6 135:12 136:12 146:10 154:14 170:13 wondering 19:8 113:6,16 166:3 175:8 word 21:19 72:11 96:7,22 101:15 102:13 107:22 110:20 113:12 120:15 183:18 words 21:3 27:11 44:1 94:6 126:19 143:18 146:6 150:8,17 152:14 175:15 work 20:10 43:12 48:13 53:9 56:14 58:6,15 61:14 102:15,18 114:8 134:17 135:5 137:2,9 137:10 140:3 140:15 146:8 147:9,18 149:6 149:17 152:2 153:1,9,20 155:4,7 164:20 November 28, 2023 Page 58 165:2 174:13 worked 41:8 43:21 147:21 148:21 154:22 worker 128:16 workers 126:10,13 127:15,19 139:22 141:9 141:11 142:21 143:3 working 44:4 127:4 137:5 152:21 181:16 works 106:12 129:18 148:6 world 7:1,13 10:6 13:3 89:22 90:6,11 90:18,19,22 94:4,11,15 97:2,6 98:7 99:10,19 100:2 101:15 103:8 107:17,19,21 108:3 109:15 110:12 112:4 113:8,22 114:4 115:7 116:11 116:12,22 122:11 151:10 152:6 166:21 worn 150:1 159:22 worried 134:18 175:13 worries 150:19 worry 106:14 106:15 worth 38:20 wreath 72:20 73:4 write 65:9 writer 163:19 writing 122:16 158:6 162:19 162:22 163:21 163:21 168:15 168:16 written 148:5 164:7 wrong 26:12 165:1 wrote 169:12 wwii 10:8 91:21,22 93:16 y yancey 1:21 186:2,20 yard 60:19 yeah 20:13 28:11 32:14 34:10 48:9 54:18 68:16 74:18 84:12 89:13,17 113:16 143:21 154:20 160:5 167:11 year 12:11 42:15 50:3,12 66:7 146:22 166:9 179:6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 year's 42:1 years 41:22 43:4 44:22 64:21 131:14 140:14 180:3 180:15 182:7 182:13,20 184:14,20,20 yep 4:9 yesterday 27:20 young 47:3 youtube 4:5 z z 98:5 zeitgeist 132:16 zero 56:5 zeytoonjian 10:15 29:11,12 zoom 32:6 33:11 65:4 zooming 31:18 48:22,22