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Meeting

November 28, 2023

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________________________________

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CCAC Public Meeting

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________________________________

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Moderated by Dr. Lawrence Brown

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Tuesday, November 28, 2023

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9:00 a.m.

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US Mint

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801 9th Street NW

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Washington, DC 20220

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REPORTED BY:

Matthew Yancey, Notary Public

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JOB No.:

6167588

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A P P E A R A N C E S
LAWRENCE BROWN - Representing the General Public
and Chairperson of the CCAC
JENNIFER WARREN - Director of Legislative and
Intergovernmental Affairs and Liaison to the CCAC
ARTHUR BERNSTEIN - Representing the General
Public
HARCOURT FULLER - Recommended by the Speaker of
the House

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KELLEN HOARD - Representing the General Public

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CHRISTOPHER CAPOZZOLA - Specially Qualified in

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American History

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JOHN SAUNDERS - Recommended by the House Minority

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MICHAEL MORAN - Recommended by the Senate

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Majority

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DONALD SCARINCI - Senate Minority Leader

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DENNIS TUCKER - Specially Qualified in

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Numismatics
PETER VAN ALFEN - Specially Qualified as a
Numismatic Curator
APRIL STAFFORD - Chief, Office of Design
Management

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A P P E A R A N C E S

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MEGAN SULLIVAN - Senior Design Manager

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GREG WEINMAN

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ROGER VASQUEZ - Senior Design Manager

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PAM BORER - Design Manager

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RUSSELL EVANS - Design Manager

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BONEZA HANCHOCK - Design Manager

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SUKRITA BAIJAL - Design Manager

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P R O C E E D I N G S

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MS. WARREN:

Good morning.

This is

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Jennifer Warren, the liaison to the U.S. Mint, I mean,

4

the CCAC from the U.S. Mint.

5

this both on YouTube as well as for archival purposes

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just to let the public know.

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can hear us, and we will be starting.

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Court Reporter?

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REPORTER:

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MS. WARREN:

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DR. BROWN:

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MS. WARREN:

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We will be recording

And hopefully everybody
Are we good,

Yep.
Dr. Brown, are you good?
Uh-huh.
Okay.

We will start now,

so I will hand it off to Dr. Brown.

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DR. BROWN:

Good morning, everyone.

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call to order this meeting of the Citizens Coinage

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Advisory Committee for Tuesday, November 28th, 2023.

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The time is 8:59.

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MS. WARREN:

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DR. BROWN:

I

9:00.
9:00.

Today's session is

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scheduled to run until approximately 4:30, maybe a bit

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earlier.

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will be the first time it is streamed live to the

Today's meeting is being recorded and it

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public rather than over the phone.

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I'd like to introduce members of the committee.

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Please respond present when I call your name.

4
5

Before we begin,

Arthur Bernstein, Representing the
General Public.

6

MR. BERSTEIN:

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DR. BROWN:

8

Recommended by the Speaker of the House.

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10
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Dr. Harcourt Fuller,

DR. FULLER:
DR. BROWN:

Present.

Present.
Kellen Hoard, Representing

the General Public.

12

MR. HOARD:

Present.

13

DR. BROWN:

Dr. Christopher Capozzola,

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Specially Qualified in American History.

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DR. CAPOZZOLA:

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DR. BROWN:

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Present.

Michael Moran, Recommended

by the Senate Majority Leader.

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MR. MORAN:

Present.

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DR. BROWN:

Donald Scarinci,

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Recommended by the Senate Minority Leader.

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MR. SCARINCI:

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DR. BROWN:

Present.

Dennis Tucker, Specially

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Qualified in Numismatics.

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MR. TUCKER:

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DR. BROWN:

Present.
Dr. Peter van Alfen,

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Specially Qualified as a Numismatic Curator.

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DR. VAN ALFEN:

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DR. BROWN:

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Present.

John Saunders, Recommended

by the House Minority Leader.

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MR. SAUNDERS:

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DR. BROWN:

No audible response.

We will move forward.

And

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I Dr. Lawrence Brown, representing the General Public

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and Chair of the CCAC.

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for today's session includes the following -- approval

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of the minutes and the letter to the Secretary for the

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October 24 and October 25 public meetings.

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discussion of the national medal for the use as the

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2028 Los Angeles Summer Olympics Games "handover medal

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-- medallion" during the closing ceremony of the 2024

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Paris Summer Olympics.

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candidate designs for the 2025 American Innovation $1

20

coin, honoring innovation in Arkansas.

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discussion of candidate designs for the Flowing Hair

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Gold Coin and Silver Medal.

We have a quorum.

The agenda

Review and

Review and discussion of

Review and

Review and discussion of

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candidate designs for the Army Rangers of World War II

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congressional Gold Medal.

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candidate designs for the 2025 American Innovation $1

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coin honoring innovation in Michigan.

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review and discussion of candidates designs for the

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2025 Native American $1 coin.

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Review and discussion of

And finally,

Before we begin our proceedings, I ask

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that the U.S. Mint liaison to the CCAC, Ms. Jennifer

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Warren, if there are any members of the press who have

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remotely signed on to the meeting?

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MS. WARREN:

Yes, sir.

Mike Unser

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Founder and Editor of CoinNews Media Group and Paul

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Gilkes, Amos Media/Coin World Senior Editor.

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DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

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record, I would also like to confirm that the

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following U.S. Mint staff are attending today.

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indicate present after I have called your name.

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19

Please

April Stafford, Chief Office of Design
Management.

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MS. STAFFORD:

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DR. BROWN:

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For the

Present.

Megan Sullivan, Senior

Design Manager.

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MS. SULLIVAN:

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DR. BROWN:

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Present.

Roger Vasquez, Senior

Design Manager.

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MR. VASQUEZ:

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DR. BROWN:

6

MS. STAFFORD:

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DR. BROWN:

Russell Evans, Design

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MR. EVANS:

Present.

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DR. BROWN:

Boneza Hanchock, Design

8

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Present.
Pam Borer, Design Manager.

Manager.

Manager.

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MS. HANCHOCK:

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DR. BROWN:

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Not present.

Present.

Sukrita Baijal, Design

Manager.

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MS. BAIJAL:

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DR. BROWN:

Joseph Menna, Chief

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MR. MENNA:

Present.

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DR. BROWN:

Michael Costello, Manager

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Present.

Engraver.

of Design and Engraving.

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MR. COSTELLO:

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DR. BROWN:

Present.

Jennifer Warren, Director

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of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs and

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liaison to the CCAC.

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MS. WARREN:

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DR. BROWN:

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Present.
Greg Weinman, Senior Legal

Counsel and Counsel to the CCAC.

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MR. WEINMAN:

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DR. BROWN:

Present.
Brendan Tate, Senior

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Government Affairs Specialist and Office of

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Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs.

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MS. WARREN:

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DR. BROWN:

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He is present.
Mike White, Office of

Corporate Communication.

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MR. WHITE:

No audible response.

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DR. BROWN:

And finally, I just want to

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note for the record that we will be joined later

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during this meeting by the following liaisons.

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the 2025 American innovation $1 coin honoring

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innovation in Michigan, we will have Judge Steven

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Bieda, Chairman of the Michigan Tax Tribunal.

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2025 American innovation $1 coin honoring innovation

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in Arkansas, we will have Dr. Blake Wintory, Arkansas

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Heritage Museum Services Director of the Arkansas

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Department of Parks, Heritage and Tourism.

And we

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will have Dr. Montague, son of Raye Montague and is

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Associate Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and

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Professor of Criminal Justice and Criminology at the

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University of Arkansas at Little Rock.

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Rangers of World War II congressional Gold Medal.

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will have two persons, Ron Hudnell, Congressional Gold

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Medal Project Manager of the Descendants of WWII

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Rangers and we will have Mr. Jimmie Spencer, Senior

For the Army
We

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Fellow of the Association of the United States Army as

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well.

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for the 2028 Los Angeles Summer Olympics Games

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"handover medallion" during the closing ceremony of

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the 2024 Parasum Olympics, we will have, in fact, Mr.

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Peter Zeytoonjian, Senior Vice President of Commerce

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and Events at the United States Olympic and Paralympic

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Properties and Mr. Taylor Reynolds, Senior Manager of

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Consumer Products at the United States Olympic and

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Paralympic Properties.

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for the 2025 Native American $1 coin.

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Harman, who is the great granddaughter of Mary Kawena

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Pukui.

For use as -- for those and for the liaisons

We will have three liaisons
Ms. Pele

And representative of her father, we will have

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Ms. Dodie Browne, granddaughter of Mary Kawena Pukui.

2

Excuse me.

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Reynolds, who is the Associate Curator at the

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Smithsonian’s National Museum of the American Indian

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with a focus on Native Hawaiian history and culture.

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And we will have Ms. Halena Kapuni-

I would like to begin with the Mint to

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ask are there any other issues that need to be

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addressed at this time?

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Hearing none, the first order of

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business for the committee is the review and approval

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of the CCAC minutes and the letter to the Secretary of

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Treasury from our public meetings on October '24 and

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2025, 2023.

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15

Are there any comments on the
documents?

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17

Hearing none, is there a motion for
approval of the minutes and the letter?

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MR. BERSTEIN:
approval.

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DR. BROWN:

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DR. VAN ALFEN:

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Arthur Bernstein moves

Is there a second?
Did everyone else

second?

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DR. BROWN:

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objections to the motion?

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none.

Very good.

Are there any

Any abstentions?

Hearing

All those in favor say aye.

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GROUP:

Aye.

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DR. BROWN:
Hearing none.

Opposed, nay.

Any

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abstentions?

Not without objection,

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the minutes and the letter are approved.

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typically my approach in these matters, I thought it

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would be useful for me to share a few comments

As is

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particularly about where we are at this time of the

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year.

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Americans as it commemorates both Thanksgiving and

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Veterans Day, two occasions that resonates with deep

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gratitude and reflection.

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the fourth Thursday of November, is a time for

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families and friends to gather, express gratitude, and

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appreciate the blessings in their lives.

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a reminder to cultivate a spirit of thankfulness and

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acknowledge the importance of community and unity.

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hope and pray that all those up here physically

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present and participating virtually enjoyed such an

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experience recently.

November holds a special place in the hearts of

Thanksgiving, celebrated on

It serves as

In the same month, on November

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I

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11th, the nation pays homage to its veterans on

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Veteran Day.

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marking the anniversary of armistice that ended World

4

War I, Veterans Day serves as a solemn reminder of the

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sacrifices made by the men and women who selfishly

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defended this country.

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celebrations that took place last Thursday, it remains

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crucial to extend our gratitude to those who have

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safeguarded our freedom and contributed to the peace

First celebrated on November 11th, 1919,

As we reflect on Thanksgiving

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and security we cherish.

11

not only for reflecting on personal blessings, but

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also for recognizing the collective sacrifices that

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shape this nation's history and allow the traditions

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of Thanksgiving to endure.

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those of the 7 percent of the U.S. population of

16

veterans, I salute them as well as another 1.4 million

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Americans serving in the military.

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represents another important extension of our thanks

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for two of the programs before us allows us to

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remember Americans who have directly or indirectly

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contributed to preserving the freedoms we enjoy.

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November has become a month

While I am certainly among

This meeting

We will next review -- first review the

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obverse and reverse candidate designs for the national

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medal for use as the 2028 Los Angeles Summer of

3

Olympics Hanover medallion during closing ceremony of

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the 2024 Paris Summer Olympics.

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of the Men's Office of Design management, who

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introduced a design.

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MS. STAFFORD:

April Stafford, chief

Thank you.

In 2024

8

France is hosting the Summer Olympics in Paris.

And

9

in 2028 the United States will be hosting the Summer

10

Olympics in Los Angeles, California.

At the

11

conclusion of each Olympic and Paralympic Games, the

12

presiding host country and the host country of the

13

next Olympic and Paralympic Games participate in an

14

official handover of the Games.

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ceremonies, typically, the mayors of the host cities

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join the International Olympic Committee or

17

International Paralympic Committee presidents on

18

stage, and the flag of the Games is lowered and passed

19

from mayor to mayor as a symbolic highlight.

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addition, each host nation has typically provided an

21

official gift, typically, a coin or medallion, as part

22

of an official handover for the Games, serving both as

During the closing

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an expression of goodwill between nations and a signal

2

of a major milestone in the Games itself.

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handover coin or medallion marks the handoff of the

4

Games and celebrates the two cities and countries

5

hosting them.

6

seeking Secretary of the Treasury authorization to

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Mint Silver National Medals to be provided to the

8

United States Olympics and Paralympics properties for

9

the purpose of presentation as handover medallions to

The

The United States Mint is currently

10

their French counterparts in conjunction with the

11

closing ceremonies of the 2024 Paris Summer Olympic

12

Games and Paralympic Games.

13

authorization, the Mint would appreciate your input on

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the following potential candidate designs.

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designs for the National Medals to be used as Olympic

16

handover medallions are designed for a three-inch

17

planchette.

18

requirements, but the final medals will likely feature

19

an official LA 28 Olympics and Paralympics emblem, a

20

redacted placeholder for which is featured on some of

21

the designs you'll be seeing.

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design pairing that does not feature this placeholder

In anticipation of this

Candidate

There are no specific design

Should you recommend a

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emblem, we request you also make a recommendation on

2

the placement for that emblem.

3

Design elements in the candidate

4

designs include visual references to Los Angeles and

5

Paris, including, for example, skylines and famous

6

landmarks such as the Eiffel Tower, the Arc de

7

Triomphe, the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum, and the

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Hollywood sign.

9

victory, Nike's wings, and the winged Victory of

10

Samothrace.

Depictions of Nike, goddess of

Did I pronounce that correctly?

11

MR. MENNA:

Yes.

12

MS. STAFFORD:

Thank you.

And other

13

references to the Olympics, for example, the torch.

14

We have not divided this portfolio into obverse and

15

reverse candidate designs.

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options and discuss the potential pairings.

17

move through the candidate designs.

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one.

19

the Olympic -- U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Properties

20

as a strong design.

21

designed identified by our liaisons, with the U.S.

22

Olympic Games and Paralympic Properties.

So you'll see all of the
So we'll

We have design

This design was identified by our liaisons with

Two, three, four, another

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Five, six --

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design six was identified by our liaisons as well as a

2

preference, a recommendation by the U.S. Commission of

3

Fine Arts for the obverse.

4

13, and 14.

5

designs by our liaisons, and 14 was identified as the

6

recommendation by the CFA as the reverse.

7

there were some recommendations by the CFA starting

8

with the reverse that you're seeing here.

9

recommended that the design be slightly revised to

Design 7, 8, 9, 10, 11,

13 and 14 were identified as strong

Although

They

10

pull in so you can see more of the Coliseum.

11

obverse, if we can go back to design 6, they made some

12

observations that the weighting of the LA 28 emblem

13

and the Paris 2024 could potentially be reconsidered

14

to make them a little bit more equivalent.

15

our chief engraver has thoughts on both of those

16

suggestions by the CFA.

17

like to hear those Chairman Brown.

18

candidate designs.

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DR. BROWN:

And the

I do know

If at any point you would
That concludes the

Thank you so much.

I would

20

like to ask the committee, are there any technical or

21

legal questions that you have about this program or

22

these designs before we begin our general discussion?

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Art?

2

MR. BERNSTEIN:

3

Bernstein.

4

technical question.

5

in the middle of the design.

6

MS. STAFFORD:

7

MR. MENNA:

This is Arthur

Could you bring up design nine?

I had a

I wasn't clear what that item is

Joe?

I think all the artists, in

8

different ways, tried to answer the call to

9

incorporate the Nike of Samothrace, some very

10

literally with the statue itself, some with winged

11

victories based on Greek, that vase painting and

12

mosaics.

13

symbolically representing the Nike.

And this one is just the wing, also

14

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

15

MR. MENNA:

Sure.

16

DR. BROWN:

Any other questions from

17

the committee?

Hearing none.

Seeing none.

18

begin our (inaudible) consideration and given the

19

robust agenda that we have before us, for efficiency,

20

let me suggest that committee members feel free and

21

comfortable to, say, pass or a single sentence to

22

support a particular candidate design should a member

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Before we

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who precedes you articulates sufficiently your view.

2

For the benefit of the court reporter and the public,

3

I ask that you state your name when you -- before you

4

begin speaking.

5

Let's begin with Dennis Tucker.

6

Let us begin our consideration.

MR. TUCKER:

7

I apologize.

8

brief.

9

available for public sale?

I did have a question.

And

I'll keep this

I was wondering if these medals will be made

10
11

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

MS. STAFFORD:
discussion for us.

12

That has not been a

We have no decision on that.

MR. TUCKER:

Thank you.

I like the

13

kind of urban art feel of number one.

That was a

14

design that caught my eye, and I think it would make a

15

very nice obverse.

16

out at me as strong designs for the reverse.

17

are the two that would have my support.

18

Congratulations to the Mint artists on a great

19

portfolio.

And then, 13 and 14 really jumped

20

MR. MORAN:

Thank you.

21

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

22

MR. MORAN:

This is Mike Moran.

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So those

Mike?
I was

Meeting

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particularly taken by the image of number six.

2

it struck a note that is what I envision an Olympian

3

coin or medal to look like.

4

but I prefer 13 over 14 because the Memorial Coliseum

5

to me is more recognizable in that presentation than

6

it is in 14.

I also like 13 and 14,

That's it.

7

DR. BROWN:

8

DR. VAN ALFEN:

9

Peter Van Alphen.

Thank you so much.

Peter?

I'm happy -- this is

I'm happy to agree with Mike and

10

the CFA.

11

adjustments to the waiting and R-14 or R-13.

O-06, I think, would work well with

12

DR. BROWN:

13

DR. VAN ALFEN:

14

To me,

with those selections.

13.
13.

Yeah.

So happy

Thank you.

15

DR. BROWN:

16

DR. FULLER:

Thank you.

Harcourt?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

17

This is Dr. Harcourt Fuller.

I really, really like O-

18

04, because I think it represents both cities well.

19

And I will also endorse R-13.

Thank you.

20

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

21

DR. BROWN:

This is Arthur Bernstein.

22

Art?

For me, a fundamental principle was that at least one

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side of the coin, the medallion should spell out the

2

names of both cities.

3

like to see the words Los Angeles, not just LA.

4

I'd like to see Paris.

5

towards design four.

6

the famous imagery of the two architectural features

7

of each of the cities.

8

medallion, I liked design nine.

9

the names of the cities on one side of the medallion,

And I mean spell out, I would
And

And for that reason, I lean
I find it elegant, and you have

For the other side of the
If we're featuring

10

I like the idea that the flags of the two nations

11

would be on the other side of the medallion.

12

you.

13

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

14

MR. SCARINCI:

Thank

Donald?

First, very briefly, and

15

in general, whatever is going on in the chief

16

engraver's office, please keep doing it.

17

fabulous grouping.

18

we're seeing today is just a fabulous -- it's kind of

19

fresh.

20

So having said that briefly, and I could say a lot

21

more about that, but good job.

22

think number one is an opportunity not to be missed.

This is a

Not just in this set, but what

I mean, that's the word I would describe it.

Good job, Joe.

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And I

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It does spell out -- it does name the two cities,

2

which I agree is an important feature.

3

on this piece somewhere.

4

modern.

5

with the new.

6

achieve.

7

another look at that before you vote, because that's

8

really kind of collagey and if we're going to do --

9

and if we're going to make a depiction of the two

It has to be

It's different.

It's

I just think it combines sort of classical
It achieves what you're looking to

For those who think who like O-04, just take

10

cities, we would be duplicating this if we go with the

11

R-14, R-13, R-14, right?

12

duplicate the reverse on the obverse.

13

like everybody's going with either 13 or 14 for the

14

reverse.

15

against number four.

16

number five and number seven, you know, are just -- I

17

just think stunning.

18

illusion in five, I get a feeling we're going to see

19

more of that, and that's all good.

20

know, what's going on above it, but number seven is

21

modern.

22

the names of the two cities, which I agree is, as, you

So I don't think you need to
And it seems

So I would ask you to reconsider support

It's sleek.

As a kudo -- as a design kudo

You know, I think the classical

I don't like, you

It does unfortunately not have

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know, Art said, I agree that's an important design

2

element.

3

fascination with it to be honest.

4

of whimsical.

5

classical garb carrying the Olympic torch.

6

I don't think ballet is an Olympic -- is a competition

7

in the Olympics.

8

is.

9

the rays, you know, kind of just there.

As to number six, I don't see the
I think it's kind

It looks like a ballet dancer in
You know,

I'm not sure, but I don't think it

So I just don't see, you know, and then there's
So it's

10

probably my least favorite, you know, of the ones

11

we've talked about.

12

but that's it.

13

And I'm sorry I spoke so long,

DR. BROWN:

14

your thoughtful comments.

15

move on to Kellen.

16

MR. HOARD:

Thank you.

Thank you for

We appreciate that.

Thank you.

Let's

I also thought

17

14 was a really compelling design.

You know, I felt

18

like it had a perspective, which is what we don't

19

usually see on -- we usually see depictions on coins

20

but being maybe not an immersive perspective.

21

feel like when I'm looking at this, when I have that

22

perspective, it's kind of an example of showing not

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telling in many ways.

And I think it, you know, takes

2

advantage of the three-inch space well.

3

uses its space effectively.

4

surprised with myself that I liked one.

5

think I would, and at first glance, I didn't.

6

reflection, I do.

7

you know, it's creative, it uses space well.

8

stands apart stylistically.

9

and modern elements interestingly.

I think it

I also was kind of
I didn't
But in

The more I look, I feel that it is,
It

It combines the classical
I also want to

10

give a shout out to seven.

I thought seven was

11

really, really kind of neat and did space well, but

12

for the same reasons as Donald.

13

to give it artistic credit, but maybe not necessarily

14

have it be one of the options here, and it doesn't

15

maybe pair stylistically with some of the other ones.

16

And then also, I agree with Donald on four and six in

17

terms of four kind of looking a little collagey for my

18

taste, but still interesting.

19

just not maybe holding up to some of the other really

20

fantastic designs in the portfolio.

21

little bit in that I would propose 14 be the obverse

22

and 1 be the reverse.

I don't think I want

And six being fine, but

I might diverge a

The reason being, like I said,

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I think when I'm picking up a coin or a medal for the

2

first time and I see one that has a really established

3

point of view or perspective, like this one, it really

4

draws me into the piece and makes me want to look at

5

it more closely.

6

with that piece more.

7

that really effectively.

8

that piece from the table and look at it closely and

9

turn it over to see what's on the back or on the

It makes me want to actually engage
And I think this design does
It makes me want to pick up

10

reverse, which is itself another quite interesting

11

design in one.

12

like it draws me into the piece quite as much.

13

feel we should have it on the medal, but really draw

14

our viewers in, express our creativity, express this

15

transition between cities with 14 as the obverse and

16

one as the reverse.

One is interesting, but I don't feel
So I

Thank you.

17

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

18

DR. CAPOZZOLA:

Turn to Chris?

All right.

This is

19

Chris Capozzola.

Again, I'm excited about this

20

portfolio, and overall, I'm very excited about 13 and

21

14.

22

but now, hearing Kellen, I'm not so sure.

I had been thinking about them as the reverse,

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lean a little more toward 14 because it's just a

2

little bit cleaner.

3

from A to B, from Paris to Los Angeles, which is one

4

of the tasks of this medal that I liked a lot.

5

was very excited about one on the following grounds

6

that this should be a coin that looks like it was --

7

or a medal that looks like it was struck in 2024, not

8

in 1920 when the Paris Olympics happened, or 1932, and

9

in Los Angeles, and this has a sort of much more

I think it successfully conveys

I also

10

modern and contemporary feel.

I do have some concerns

11

about number four.

12

angle of movement is in the wrong direction.

13

almost looks as going from Los Angeles to Paris rather

14

than the other way around.

15

accuracy, the Eiffel Tower is not surrounded by trees,

16

and Los Angeles appears twice here LA.

17

what that symbol is on the top and Los Angeles at the

18

bottom.

19

but a lot of enthusiasm.

In particular, I felt that the
It

And then just in terms of

Depending on

So those are some concerns that I have there,

20

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

21

MR. SAUNDERS:

22

DR. BROWN:

John?

Yes.

Colleagues, I must confess

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that you all have articulated points of view that I

2

embrace in some ways and others I do not.

3

probably give my vote for the obverse to be 14 and the

4

reverse to be one for the reasons that have been

5

articulated.

6

motions from members at this time?

7

But I would

Are there any additional comments or

MR. BERNSTEIN:

This is Arthur

8

Bernstein.

9

when I first spoke, and at the risk of sounding like a

10

grouchy old man, I was not supportive of design number

11

one or two because to me, the words, Los Angeles, I'm

12

assuming that's meant to emulate graffiti, which to me

13

is a crime.

14

graffiti.

15
16

I had one other comment I forgot to make

And I didn't want to glorify the crime of

MR. SCARINCI:

If I may?

Graffiti is

art.

17

DR. BROWN:

Joe Menna?

18

MR. MENNA:

Yes.

Interesting topic to

19

bring up as Banksy's identity was just revealed

20

yesterday in the press.

21

days was definitely an act, but it is a form of

22

protest that dates back to the Roman Empire.

Graffiti, yes, in the old

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street art, which is not graffiti, which is graffiti

2

legal, is ubiquitous across the country and one of the

3

most prevalent and Avant-garde art forms out there.

4

I'm not saying this embodies that, but just talking

5

about street art in general, and I'm not trying to

6

correct you or change your opinions that aren't

7

validated.

Thank you.

8

DR. BROWN:

9

DR. FULLER:

10

DR. BROWN:

11

DR. FULLER:

Thank you.
Mr. Chairman?
Yes, please.

Harcourt?

This is Dr. Fuller.

Yeah,

12

I just want to comment as well.

I think that with

13

many kind of, shall we say, popular styles of art,

14

sometimes they start out one way in which they are

15

unlawful, not really valued, and over time they become

16

mainstream, whether we're talking about genres of

17

music or art.

18

has, you know, has been popular both in LA and other

19

American cities and certainly in Paris.

20

that the connotation of graffiti or street art has

21

drastically changed to an accepted and respected art

22

form today.

And I think that graffiti or street art

Thank you.

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MS. STAFFORD:

Chairman Brown, the

2

chief engraver just reminded me to share with the

3

committee this element, this type of element or

4

approach.

5

actually part of the input that was provided by our

6

liaisons at the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Property.

7

So it was a response by the artists to that.

8
9
10
11

Street art, kind of a grittiness, was

DR. BROWN:

I wonder if any of the

liaisons would like to add any further comments based
on what they've heard from the committee members?
MR. ZEYTOONJIAN:

Sure.

This is Peter

12

Zeytoonjian, with U.S. Olympic Paralympic Properties.

13

Thank you for your time.

14

would just say thank you for your time today.

15

Olympics have not been in the United States since

16

2002, four months after September 11.

17

has not seen the Olympics in the United States.

18

what will happen at the end of the Los Angeles Games,

19

Los Angeles, along with Paris and London, will be the

20

only three cities to host an Olympic Games ever, both

21

winter and summer.

22

I personally tend to lean towards 13 and 14 and do

I tend to agree -- first, I
The

So a generation
And

As it relates to the designs here,

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prefer a goddess of victory on whatever side is

2

appropriate based on your knowledge here.

3

to the street art comment, part of the emblem of the

4

LA 28 Grant is actually around street art.

5

Angeles, there's murals all over the city that are

6

actually commissioned versus, you know, under bridges

7

that people take pictures from.

8

culture of LA.

9

DR. BROWN:

10

As a relief

And in Los

So it's part of the

Thank you.

MR. SCARINCI:

Mr. Chairman.

If I can

11

just say one brief thing about street art.

12

to collect pictures of street art.

13

country.

14

you know, very modern, very us, very 21st Century,

15

even though it's been around since -- as the chief

16

engraver says, since ancient times.

17

even see more of this kind of thing on future designs,

18

so I encourage it.

19

will have more discussions about street art, I'm sure,

20

you know, in private conversations that don't relate

21

to any coins, but I encourage it.

22

brilliant to use it in this context, you know, and in

It's international.

I happen

It is all over the

It's totally something,

And I'd like to

I hope the rest of the committee

I think it's

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this form.

It's just very American.

2

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

Let me

3

suggest something for the committee to consider.

4

from a process standpoint.

5

clear about what we expect on one side of this medal

6

and the other side of this medallion, rather -- and

7

the other side.

8

that we are clear about what's the obverse and what is

9

the reverse.

We'd like to really be

So let me suggest that as we score,

So we're going to make sure that when we

10

add the score sheet, modify it to be able to

11

accomplish that.

12

Just make sure you ask Joe.

13

I go do that about the scoring.

14

chief and waiver.

15

As

So if there's any question?

MR. MENNA:

Please?

So let me do this before
Let me come back to a

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

16

Menna (inaudible) 13 or 14.

I just wanted to add a

17

comment regarding I think it was brought up that the

18

CFA recommended zooming in so that the Forum could be

19

seen more.

20

that.

21

the artist has made the Forum carry over the Arc de

22

Triomphe's horizontal along the bottom, that serves as

And I understand the literal utility of

But from a compositional standpoint, the way

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the pediments for the two sculptural compositions, it

2

gives you a strong horizontal.

3

points up towards the logo arc framed by the arc of

4

the arc, to say it like that, I think there is a

5

structural integrity to this that adding a literal

6

kind of photographic or cinematic zoom in, it would

7

lose the structural integrity.

8

solid.

9

consider that it may be more solid like this.

And the way the Forum

I think it's more

I think as a designer, the committee might
And

10

that's just my perspective, and I'm not trying to

11

change anyone's opinion.

12
13
14

MS. STAFFORD:

And it's a three-inch

planchette.
MR. MENNA:

Yeah.

It's a three inch --

15

this is like a Congressional Gold Medal size.

16

going to read just beautifully.

17

the form is the one with Richard (inaudible) Miller's.

18

I mean, with Richard what's his name's.

19

sculptures on top of it.

20

DR. BROWN:

This is

I mean, the Coliseum,

Horrible

So let me come back to the

21

process as we go forward, because I saw the hand of

22

Dennis -- I think of Chris, Dennis.

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1
2

DR. CAPOZZOLA:
answered.

3
4

I have no questions.
MR. TUCKER:

as well.

5

My question was

My question was answered

Thank you.
DR. BROWN:

John, do you want to weigh

6

in on this in terms of your view of these candidate

7

designs?

8
9

MR. SAUNDERS:

I just got on the thing.

I'm not quite sure how I did it.

I've got somebody

10

from my office on the way to my house to set up teams.

11

I've been trying to log on through Zoom and your IT

12

department is trying to tell me how to get Teams and I

13

don't think you'll get it.

14

I'm lost.

15
16

DR. BROWN:

Where are we, Dr. Brown?

I tell you what, John,

we'll come back to you perhaps on the next one --

17

MR. SAUNDERS:

18

DR. BROWN:

19

MR. SAUNDERS:

20

DR. BROWN:

That'd be fine.

-- if you don't mind?
That'd be great.

So just as a reminder, my

21

colleagues from a process going forward of the scoring

22

that we want to make sure that we indicate clearly on

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the score sheet what is the obverse and the score with

2

respect to that and what is the reverse.

3

that?

4

to do that?

How do we do

From a compilation standpoint, I'm not sure how

5

MR. WEINMAN:

This is Greg Weinman,

6

maybe as a point of convenience maybe one possibility

7

is score and then have a subsequent conversation about

8

what would make a good offer.

9

able to capture the points properly.

10

MS. STAFFORD:

11

DR. BROWN:

Otherwise, I won't be

Yeah.

Any reservation or

12

objection to that approach?

13

none.

14

designed for the National Medal for the use of a 2028

15

Los Angeles Summer Olympic Games handover medallion

16

during the closing ceremony for the 2024 Paris Summer

17

Olympics.

18

to Greg Weinman, counsel to the CCAC who will tally

19

them and present the results.

20

Hearing none.

Seeing

Then committee will now score the candidate

Please provide your complete score sheets

MS. WARREN:

21

Warren.

22

Weinman on his email.

And this is Jennifer

For those remote please send them to Greg
Are we going into a five-minute

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recess, sir?

2
3

DR. BROWN:
please?

Can we take five minutes,

Recess for five minutes.

4

(Off the record.)

5

MS. WARREN:

6

DR. BROWN:

7

We are back.

I now

recognize Greg Weinman to present the scoring results.

8
9

Back to you, Dr. Brown.

MR. WEINMAN:

Good morning.

With nine

members scoring, that means the highest possible score

10

is 27.

11

received 23 points making it tied for a high scoring

12

design.

13

Number three received three.

14

seven.

15

Design number six received 13.

16

received seven points.

17

two.

18

10 received one.

19

Design 13 received 17.

20

23.

21

28 Design 14 with the --

22

So out of possible 27, design number one

Design number two received three points.
Number four received

Design number five received four points.
Design number seven

Design number eight received

Design number nine received five.

Design number

Design number 11 received one.
And Design 14 also received

So the two high scoring designs are LA 01 and LA

MR. MORAN:

I'm good with that.

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MR. WEINMAN:

So with that, you may

2

recommend you entertain a motion to start?

3

DR. BROWN:

Obvious reason.

Mike?

4

MR. MORAN:

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

Mike

5

Moran.

I move that we accept these two designs as the

6

obverse and reverse first motion.

7

that we treat 01 as the obverse and 14 as the reverse.

8
9

DR. BROWN:

Is there second on the

motion?

10
11

Second motion is

DR. VAN ALFEN:

Peter Van Alfen,

second.

12

MR. HOARD:

And that's on the first

14

DR. BROWN:

Can you repeat the motion?

15

MR. MORAN:

No.

13

motion or --

First motion is to

16

accept the two designs chosen as number 1 and number

17

14.

That's the first motion.

18
19

DR. BROWN:

22

Is there a

second on that motion?

20
21

Thank you.

DR. VAN ALFEN:

Peter Van Alfen,

second.
MR. MORAN:

And the second motion is

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that we treat number 1 as the obverse.

2

the reverse.

DR. BROWN:

Okay.

3

DR. VAN ALFEN:

4

DR. BROWN:

5

the first motion.

GROUP:

7

DR. BROWN:
abstentions?

9
10

A second.

Oh, let's take

Any opposed?

Any

First motion carries.
Let's go to the second. motion.

All

those in favor, aye.
GROUP:

12

MR. HOARD:

Aye.
Are we able to speak on the

motion first to discuss the motion?

14
15

Second.

Aye.

11

13

My apologies.

All those in favor, aye.

6

8

Number 14 is

DR. BROWN:

You certainly may.

Please.

MR. HOARD:

I would -- so this is

Thank you.

16
17

Kellen Hoard.

I would support actually having 14, as

18

I mentioned earlier, as the obverse rather than the

19

reverse.

20

short.

21

is it draws you into the medal with a certain

22

perspective, is that it's a piece that, you know, kind

As I said previously, you know, I'll keep it
I think the 14 what it does really effectively

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of with the traditional CCAC lens that you want to

2

pick up off the table or that if you're handing it

3

over to, you know, from mayor to mayor, it's something

4

that when you see it firsthand, it feels like there's

5

that transition, like there's that continuity.

6

feels like it's a piece that's compelling, that shows

7

up really nicely on the three-inch medal, and that

8

allows you to kind of dive into all the detail that it

9

has on that obverse.

10

It

And then you turn to the reverse

11

because you're intrigued by the obverse and you're

12

able to see further imagery.

13

cities more explicitly laid out.

14

transition from more of a classical style to more of a

15

modern style.

16

momentum of the piece, is that you're actually turning

17

the coin to experience a different design elements and

18

going from kind of almost a detailed, heavy piece to a

19

more simple piece.

20

that it's worth having 14 as the obverse, because,

21

again, it really makes you feel like you're actually

22

immersed in the medal, and that's exactly what we want

You're able to see the
You're able to see a

And it feels like this is kind of the

For that reason, I really think

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to achieve through our obverse medallions.

2
3

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Any

further comments on the motion?

4

MR. TUCKER:

This is Dennis Tucker.

5

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have to disagree with that.

6

I actually find number one to be the most compelling

7

and visually arresting design of the two.

8

approached this almost the way we would look at a

9

Congressional Gold Medal, where the obverse is

I

10

typically more active.

11

verb of the medal, and then the reverse is allowed to

12

be more static, the noun, if you will.

13

that if we call it O-01 and R-14 accomplishes that.

14

do think that 1 is something that would attract your

15

eye held at arm's length.

16

it is intriguing.

17

design, but you turn it over and can spend some time

18

with that as well on the reverse.

19

motion.

20

We think of that as being the

And I think

It's innovative, it's bold,

And 14 is also a very attractive

So I like Mike's

Thank you, Mr. Chair.
DR. BROWN:

I

Thank you.
Hearing none.

Any further

21

comments on the motion?

22

Now we're speaking to the motion that Michael said.

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All those in favor, aye.

2

GROUP:

3

DR. CAPOZZOLA:

4

Aye.
That is 1 is O-01, R-

14.

5

DR. BROWN:

That's correct.

6

DR. CAPOZZOLA:

7

DR. BROWN:

8

DR. CAPOZZOLA:

9

DR. BROWN:

All right.

Any opposed?
Nay.

Any abstentions?

The

10

motion carries.

11

None.

12

to take this time to thank our stakeholders because

13

this has certainly been an interesting and we know

14

this will be an enjoyable experience that we'll get to

15

observe when the handover takes place.

16

much, Peter and Taylor, for attending.

17

Are there any other further motions?

And if all discussion has concluded, I'd like

Thank you so

We will now review the reverse

18

candidate designs for the 2025 American Innovation $1

19

coin program honoring innovation in Arkansas.

20

Stafford, Chief of the Mints Office of Design

21

Management, will introduce the program and present the

22

candidate designs.

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1

MS. STAFFORD:

Thank you.

First, some

2

background on this program.

It is Public Law 115-197,

3

the American Innovation Dollar Coin Act that requires

4

the Secretary of the Treasury to mint and issue dollar

5

coins with the reverse design honoring innovation or

6

innovators from each of the 50 states, the

7

territories, and the District of Columbia.

8

accordance with the act, the Mint worked with the

9

governors of each state to be honored in 2025 to

In

10

develop design concepts for the coins.

These concepts

11

have been approved by the Secretary of the Treasury.

12

The first two states to be recognized in 2025,

13

Arkansas and Michigan, are presented here.

14

remaining two, Florida and Texas, will be presented in

15

early 2024.

16

propose between one to three design concepts and

17

artists created designs based on the concepts proposed

18

and subsequently approved by the Secretary.

19

collaborated with liaisons and experts from each state

20

in developing the following candidate design.

21

obverse design for this program will remain the same

22

as in previous years and will contain a unique gear

The

As always, the governors were asked to

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1

shaped privy mark to distinguish this year's coins.

2

So we have one concept from Arkansas, and that is Raye

3

Montague.

4

innovator.

5

in Little Rock, Arkansas, was an American naval

6

engineer and innovator of computer aided design of

7

naval ships.

8

generated rough draft of a naval ship for the United

9

States Navy.

Some background on this incredible
Raye Montague, born on January 24th, 1935,

She's credited with the first computer

After graduating high school in 1952,

10

she longed to major in engineering, but racism and

11

misogyny prevented her from pursuing a degree in the

12

field.

13

Mechanical and Normal College, now The University Of

14

Arkansas at Pine Bluff historically Black University

15

with a degree in business.

16

to the Washington, DC area and was hired by the United

17

States Navy as a clerk typist.

18

the engineering station, she would observe the

19

engineers and fill in when they were out.

20

to rise in the ranks drove her to take computer

21

classes at night while she continued to learn on the

22

job.

In 1956, she graduated from the Arkansas

That same year, she moved

With her desk next to

Her desire

In 1971, she developed the first automated

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system for selecting and printing ship specifications

2

and became the first person ever to design a United

3

States Navy ship using a computer.

4

take two years to create a design of a ship on paper.

5

Nevertheless, due to the urgency of her task, which

6

came directly from President Nixon during the height

7

of the Vietnam War, she was given only one month to

8

design the first draft for the Oliver Hazard Perry

9

class-frigate.

It would typically

She finished the design in under 19

10

hours.

In 1972, the navy awarded Montague its

11

meritorious civilian service award for her

12

groundbreaking work.

13

Arkansas Black Hall of Fame in 2013 and the Arkansas

14

Women's Hall of Fame in 2018.

15

inscriptions on these designs are United States of

16

America and Arkansas.

17

with us today as Representatives, David Montague, son

18

of Raye Montague.

19

Chancellor for Academic Affairs and professor of

20

Criminal Justice and Criminology at the University of

21

Arkansas at Little Rock.

22

Wintory, who is at the Arkansas Heritage Museum, and

She was inducted into the

The required

We are very pleased to have

He's also the Associate Vice

We also worked with Blake

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I'd like to ask David Montague to say a few words to

2

the committee, if you wouldn't mind.

3
4

MR. MONTAGUE:
working.

Hopefully my mic is

Can you hear me okay?

5

MS. STAFFORD:

Yes.

6

MR. MONTAGUE:

Great.

Thank you.
First of all,

7

thank you so much for that wonderful introduction.

8

And to the group assembled here as the son of Raye

9

Montague, someone who grew up observing her and her

10

career and then later what she did try to inspire

11

others based on her experiences of overcoming

12

obstacles.

13

means to me and how much it would mean to so many

14

others in our state and beyond to have her selected

15

for being honored on the dollar coin.

16

want to say, in addition to the accolades that were

17

mentioned about her career, I think what a lot of

18

people need to understand about her is that she

19

overcoming those obstacles was never a bitter person.

20

She used them to try to open doors for others along

21

the way during her career that lasted 33-and-a-half

22

years in the Navy and did become a professional

I cannot tell you how much this honor

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engineer as well as a registered professional engineer

2

in Canada.

3

do the same type of inspiration of others in her

4

retirement.

5

represents not only her commitment to our country,

6

because she certainly was very proud to protect our

7

sailors and Marines and building ships, but certainly

8

goes a long way to continuing her legacy and her dream

9

to inspire others far beyond her passing, which

10

And she used those opportunities to also

So I think that this coin certainly

happened in 2018.

11

Thank you again.

MS. STAFFORD:

Thank you so much.

And

12

just for everyone's awareness, when we move through

13

the portfolio of candidate designs, we will just

14

simply introduce them by number.

15

everyone the committee has received in advance the

16

design descriptions for each of the designs, and we'll

17

be sure to make those available and they'll be entered

18

into record.

19

All right.

I want to assure

So we will move on to the

20

candidate design.

We have first design one.

21

design is the secondary preference of the family, with

22

consideration or suggestion that should this be

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recommended to the secretary that the clothes be

2

updated to be more reminiscent of what her family

3

remembers her wearing most often, that would be office

4

attire.

5

Design two, this is the first

6

preference of the family.

It is also the

7

recommendation of the Commission of Fine Arts.

8

should note that this program has a requirement to

9

avoid head and shoulder portraits.

I

We realized late

10

in the development process that this design would need

11

to be amended in some way to either include a hand or

12

include more torso.

13

recommendation of the CFA.

14

requirement with them, and they recommended that this

15

be adjusted so that Raye Montague is pulled out and

16

you see more of her torso.

17

ready -- our chief engraver is ready to speak to that

18

should you want information about a vision for how

19

this might be adjusted.

20
21
22

That actually was part of the
We shared that same

And we, of course, are

Designs three and three A and design
four, that concludes the candidate designs, Chairman.
DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

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MR. WEINMAN:

Real quickly, Dr. Brown,

2

if I could.

3

colleague, Liz Young, who is the project counselor for

4

the America Innovation Service.

5

(inaudible)

6

For the record, I wanted to introduce my

DR. BROWN:

She's in the

Outstanding.

To the

7

committee, are there any technical legal questions

8

that you have about this program or this design?

9

MR. HOARD:

Sorry.

This is Kellen

10

Hoard.

For the Head and Shoulders requirements, do

11

all the other designs decide to meet that requirement

12

or they're not considered head and shoulders?

13

MS. STAFFORD:

14

MR. HOARD:

15

MR. TUCKER:

They do.

Okay.

Thank you.

Maybe this would be --

16

this is Dennis Tucker.

17

point to comment on that potential redesign of number

18

two.

19

Maybe we could ask Joe at this

MR. SCARINCI:

Point of order, why

20

don't we just wait and see if there's any passion for

21

the Lilliputian design number two?

22

DR. BROWN:

I think in light of the

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fact that it's favored by the fact the liaison as well

2

as the CFA, it may make sense to get that now.

3

DR. CAPOZZOLA:

4

DR. BROWN:

5

MS. WARREN:

6

I do appreciate your -And, Dr. Brown, after

that, Mr. Saunders has his hand up.

7
8

Okay.

DR. BROWN:

John, do you have a

question about legal or architectural issues?

9

MR. SAUNDERS:

Yeah.

On three, there's

10

a dial at the top with numbers 7820 and 19 there.

11

What does that mean?

12

MS. STAFFORD:

That is a reference by

13

the artist to her groundbreaking work in creating the

14

first draft in under 19 hours.

15

MR. SAUNDERS:

16

DR. BROWN:

17

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Joe, could you

speak to the issue about the body, the torso?

18

MR. MENNA:

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

This is

19

Joseph Menna.

Mr. Montague, I think the way the

20

requirement could be honored would be by the

21

foreground.

22

the Olympic being literal, zooming in or zooming out

Not to contradict myself as I spoke about

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here compositionally.

If the ship and kind of digital

2

plane that it is resting on, representing both water

3

and CAD design were reduced in scale you could also

4

pull Ms. Montague's portrait out a little bit, make

5

her a little bit smaller.

6

a way that's balanced, I believe the requirements for

7

not having a double headed coin could be met without

8

the addition of a hand or something that could perhaps

9

make the boat look like a toy or something less noble

By doing both in tandem in

10

as this composition presents it.

11

very easily affected.

12

DR. BROWN:

I think it could be

Any other comments or

13

questions on committee regarding technical or legal

14

issues?

15

consideration of this program.

16

with offering some comments myself.

17

see the value in the preferences by Dr. Montague as

18

well as the CFA, I sort of like smiling faces, as the

19

(inaudible) has been recognized from my history.

20

I like both of these designs and for a number of

21

reasons.

22

us to salute the underreported accomplishments of

Hearing none.

Then let us begin our
And I'd like to begin
As much as I do

But

One, this presents another opportunity for

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women.

Two, that its production in 2025 will be a

2

wonderful complement to the five women to be

3

celebrated in the last year of the American Women's

4

Quarter Program.

5

more significant.

6

Internet searching, Dr. Montague, I saw a picture of

7

your mother holding you around the time that she

8

accomplished this major feat.

9

phenomenal.

Three, this accomplishment is even
I had the opportunity to do some

So I found that

And this is a story before us in the

10

month in which we are celebrating veterans.

11

reason is a personal one.

12

in the year I was deployed in Vietnam, so I'm overly

13

thankful for the fact of what she has done.

14

that reason, I do favor your preference as well as

15

there are for one.

16

The last

Her accomplishment occurred

So for

We move to Dr. Fuller.

DR. FULLER:

Thank you -- excuse me --

17

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

I want to highlight that this

18

is one of the great privileges of serving as a member

19

of the CCAC is that we always have an opportunity

20

about, you know, learning about great Americans that

21

most people probably have not heard about.

22

educates us, and it always puts a smile on my face

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when I learn about, again, great Americans that have

2

made great contributions to this country.

3

that said, I do like the family's preference of 02,

4

but I also like 01 as well.

5

to say something very briefly about 01.

6

image shows her as very warm, very approachable, and

7

it also highlights her, you know, her contribution to

8

naval history.

9

consideration, but again, I will go with the family's

10

preference.

And with

And if I may, I just want
Again, this

So I will give this some due

Thank you.

11

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

12

DR. VAN ALFEN:

Peter?

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

13

This is Peter Van Alfen.

I'm very happy to support

14

the family's first preference for number two, along

15

with the recommendations suggested by Joe Menna and

16

the CFA.

17

design, and thank you very much.

I think that this is quite attractive

18

DR. BROWN:

Art?

19

MR. BERNSTEIN:

This is Arthur

20

Bernstein.

I also support the family's preferences.

21

I think 01 is my second place and 02 is my first

22

place.

I particularly like the grid pattern over the

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C relating to the computer assisted design.

I thought

2

that was very effective.

3

or suggestion.

4

differentiate the lettering.

5

of lettering, and Raye Montague's name is in a

6

different style.

7

leaning, it's the same style of lettering.

8

wondered if there should be -- I forget, Joe, what you

9

call that little dot.

I had one technical comment

I noticed all the other designs use -Arkansas is in one style

In design two, where many of us are

10

MR. MENNA:

11

MR. BERNSTEIN:

And I just

Delimiter.
Delimiter.

Whether

12

there should be some sort of delimiter between

13

Arkansas and Raye.

14

looks like it's one name.

15

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

16

MR. MORAN:

This is Mike Moran.

It just sounds like -- to me it
Thank you.
Mike?
I have

17

a question first for Mr. Montague.

Mr. Montague, we

18

have two really different images of your mother here.

19

One when she's obviously older, and another which

20

looks to be more current with when she actually did

21

the design order.

22

two in terms of the quality of the design.

My preference would be for number

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you comfortable with that image of your mother that's

2

shown in number two as opposed to number one?

3

MR. MONTAGUE:

Can you hear me?

Yes.

4

So the question is, am I comfortable with the image of

5

my mother in AR 02 --

6

MR. MORAN:

Yes.

7

MR. MONTAGUE:

-- more so -- yes, I am.

8

And it's -- as I told Russ, who's actually fantastic

9

to work with during this process, the image in number

10

two reminds me more of her.

I mean, it really looks

11

like her in real life to me.

12

of her looking over the ship with that image.

13

reminds me of when she and I would do coin collecting

14

when I was a child.

15

lot of memories.

16

- I'm sorry -- college students.

17

me as well.

18

image in number AR 02 more.

And I like the fact that
And it

So it really does bring back a

I also showed that one to my child And she agreed with

So, yes, the answer is that I do like the

19

DR. BROWN:

Thank you, Dr. Montague.

20

MR. MONTAGUE:

21

DR. BROWN:

Kellen?

22

MR. HOARD:

Thank you.

You're welcome.

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little bit persuaded here.

At first, I was more in

2

favor of image one.

3

it when they're smiling.

4

at.

5

they put the text alongside or how they oriented the

6

text there.

7

things interestingly and clearly and explicitly.

8

you all have gotten me, you know, pretty much tied

9

also with design two there.

I'm like you, Dr. Brown, I like
I think that's nice to look

I think it's an interesting design.

I like how

I thought they communicated a bunch of
But

And design two is fine

10

for me as well, pending, you know, maybe a shift in

11

the perspective on the head and shoulders.

12

Specifically, one of my concerns there, and it sounds

13

like that might address it, is she a little bit to me

14

looks like a giant looking over the horizon and kind

15

of coming up from the globe to come look at this

16

design, and it was a little disconcerting for me.

17

if we're able to adjust the head and shoulders a

18

little bit, I think that'd be fine.

19

fine with one or two.

20
21
22

DR. BROWN:

So, yeah, I'm

Thank you so much.

Turn to

Donald?
MR. SCARINCI:

But

Listen, I really like

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Jonathan Swift, and I really enjoyed the series of

2

little people.

3

was the series in the 60s and 70s.

4

this is just -- she looks like she's about to eat the

5

ship, right?

6

menacing than -- she's more of a menacing figure to

7

the people on the poor ship.

8

they're not depicted.

9

don't really like any of these designs with portraits

I think it was the Land of the Giants
And, you know,

I mean, you know, and she's more

And, you know, at least

But this is just a loss -- I

10

for this particular series.

I think this might be a

11

great quarter, you know, in the Women's Quarter

12

series.

13

this is just a huge lost opportunity to have a

14

creative design using computer, you know, using a

15

computer image of a ship.

16

there's so many other things that could have been done

17

here and to make this a great coin instead, this is ho

18

hum, and I'm sure I have great confidence in the

19

engraver's office, they will fix this so it doesn't

20

look like a lilliputian situation, you know, but I

21

think all these designs are horrible.

22

for any of them.

But as far as an innovation dollar, you know,

You know, I just think

I'm not voting

And I hope we don't have to listen

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to portraits and portraits and portraits on this

2

series as well.

3

but, you know, this really isn't the place for it.

4

does a disservice, not a service, and I'm opposed to

5

it, and I'm voting zero.

6

break.

7

I know everybody wants a portrait,

DR. BROWN:

And now I'll just take my

Thank you so much.

As the

8

public will, in fact, appreciate that the committee

9

has a sense of humor from time to time.

10

It

DR. CAPOZZOLA:

Chris?

I'm happy to support

11

number two for all the same reasons that have been

12

offered in the past.

13

appreciate that although she is not depicted there at

14

the age when she did this work, we're recognizing a

15

lifetime of innovation and contribution to Arkansas

16

and not just one 19-hour segment of it.

17

leave it at that.

18

comment to our previous comments.

19

encourage in the series going forward, thinking as

20

creatively as possible about innovation (inaudible)

21

The artists will be well qualified to tackle that, and

22

I have no doubt that (inaudible)

I do think, you know, I

So I will

Although I suppose I'll add a brief
But I also do would

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DR. BROWN:

Joe?

2

MR. MENNA:

I would just say oftentimes

3

in this program in particular, as we've discussed in

4

the past, the Innovators are as much in many cases,

5

the Innovators accomplishments are as much of an

6

innovation, given the unique challenges that they

7

face, to do these things at these times.

8

that's why sometimes the artists present these images

9

just for consideration.

10

DR. BROWN:

11

MR. TUCKER:

So I think

Dennis?
Thank you, Dr. Brown.

12

This is Dennis Tucker.

And thank you, Joe, for that

13

comment and my colleagues for this conversation.

14

think it's touched on some important themes and

15

questions about this program, and we've talked about

16

some of these before, the ideas of representation,

17

especially for minority innovators, and the importance

18

of being seen, and in our case, being seen on American

19

coins.

20

portfolio, I was actually drawn to R-04 because this

21

is one that shows Mrs. Montague in action and in the

22

act of creation.

I think that's important.

I

For this particular

So I thought that this was a strong

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design and appealing for those reasons.

For R-02,

2

Mike, thank you for bringing up the question of the

3

age she's depicted at.

4

comments.

5

insight on that.

6

she would have been when she was doing this work on

7

the design of this frigate, but it makes sense that

8

this also represents a lifetime of achievement.

9

wonder to David Montague if you could speak a moment

And Chris, thank you for your

And to David Montague, thank you for your
She does not look like the age that

So I

10

about your preference of R-02 over R-04 and if R-04

11

was ever in the running and your thoughts on that

12

particular design?

13

MR. MONTAGUE:

Yes, so when we -- and I

14

do want to say, I do appreciate all the designs and

15

the work that was put into them.

16

different things that I like about all of them.

17

Obviously, AR 02, and the first one, AR 01 were my

18

favorites.

19

well, in the sense that it's the same type of

20

direction you were talking about in terms of some of

21

the background.

22

showing in the background of that image, that is the

And I do see

I did like AR 04, and my family did as

Now, the tractor feed paper that's

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type of paper that was used in printers during that

2

time.

3

there, I'm glad it didn't show a huge monitor, which

4

is, but back then, the computers were integrated into

5

huge machines.

6

at that time.

7

think, looks really good.

8

one really struck me as not even resembling her to me.

9

And that was kind of the main issue that I had with

You know, the older fashioned keyboard just

They weren't separate standalone items
The background material itself, I
The image of her in that

10

it, is the fact that it didn't even look like her, you

11

know, and so, that's not an insult to the artist in

12

any way.

13

looked at that, it looks more like my Aunt Gladys,

14

which is a relative of mine in that sense.

15

I used to call Aunt Gladys here in Arkansas.

16

very inspirational and did inspire my mother.

17

a very strong woman.

18

background.

19

what threw me off of her.

It's just compared to the others.

When I

You know,
She was
She was

But honestly, I like the

But to be succinct, the image itself is

20

MR. TUCKER:

21

on that, then.

22

Dr. Montague?

Well, if I could follow up

And by the way, is it Mr. Montague or

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2

MR. MONTAGUE:

I go by David.

It's

technically Dr. Montague, but I answer to whatever.

3

MR. TUCKER:

Thank you.

I prefer the

4

theme of four, the act of creation.

I appreciate

5

number two, where she's observing her creation.

6

That's an important thought.

7

for me, it's more compelling to see her in the act of

8

creation, the act of engineering and innovation.

9

for me, the composition of four is more compelling.

But there's something

So

10

If the portrait of her in four could be improved upon,

11

would that be -- would you prefer that over two?

12

MR. MONTAGUE:

I'd say I'd be fine

13

either way.

To be honest with you, my preference was

14

ones that were presented to me and to my family.

15

Number 02 really looks the most like her.

16

something special about the design of the frigate is

17

being so clear in 02, you know, the Oliver Hazard

18

Perry.

19

the Support Facility in Virginia and to the Navy Yard,

20

and I've got to meet some of the people who served on

21

the Oliver Hazard Perry.

22

you know, in the model basin in Carderock, Maryland,

And there's

And I've been to know the Dahlgren, you know,

And then having been a kid,

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and running around and seeing all those things, when I

2

saw the design of the frigate in 02, it most clearly

3

represented something very large and grand and scale.

4

And I like the fact that even though, and I agree with

5

your comments in number four, the R-04, that there's a

6

lot of technical detail in there, when I thought about

7

02, to go back to that for a hot second, please.

8

grandness of the scale of the frigate, especially the

9

fact that it's resting on the ocean that is designed

The

10

from a computer system, and then my mother overlooking

11

that process is kind of what struck me immediately.

12

And it was something that one of the other

13

participants here said today that I hadn't really

14

thought about, is looking back at a lifetime of work.

15

And that's something that it wasn't in the front of my

16

mind at the time, but all those factors together,

17

that's the reason why 02 really struck me more.

18

like the R-04.

19

Showing her in action is really nice.

20

something, and I don't know what it would look like if

21

they were able to put that image in 02 on 04, R-04.

22

But 02 just hits me as it looks like what I recall and

I do

From a technical standpoint, I agree.

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remember from the love of my being a coin collector

2

that my -- I mentioned aunt Gladys, her husband, Uncle

3

Jone -- my great uncle.

4

uncles, only child of (inaudible)

5

mother and I would do as coin collecting in Maryland

6

growing up while she was in the Navy.

7

why it brings back so many positive memories.

8

it's something that I think people would find

9

interesting when they start searching, well, who is

I didn't have any aunts or
And then later, my

And so that's
And

10

this Arkansas Raye Montague person?

And to me, the

11

graphic design and the grandest, that's what stood

12

out.

13

itself with the design of the sea that really struck

14

me the most.

15

compelling as well.

16

does not fit for me.

So it's the image and the grandness of the ship

But number 04 reverse is quite
Just the image of her just really

17

DR. BROWN:

18

MR. TUCKER:

19

MR. MONTAGUE:

20

MR. TUCKER:

21

appreciate that.

22

steers me more towards two.

Thank you so much.
Thank you, Dr. Montague.
You're welcome.
Wonderful insight.

And that helps me.

I think that

Thank you.

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I

Thank you,

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Dr. Brown.

2

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

3

MR. MONTAGUE:

4

DR. FULLER:

Harcourt?

You're very welcome.
Thank you, Dr. Brown.

5

This is Dr. Harcourt Fuller.

I guess what I'm about

6

to say is probably pointless because I was going to

7

opine on what Dennis said.

8

the passion in your voice with respect to 02 and

9

that's meaningful to me because it's meaningful to

But, Dr. Montague, I hear

10

you.

So, again, I will respect your decision on that.

11

But in any case, I did want to go back to 04, if I

12

may.

13

design, again, this is very clear.

I see her

14

designing a ship using a computer.

And to me, that is

15

so inspirational to a lot of people to see her design

16

a naval ship for this time period.

17

Montague, I understand what you're saying about the

18

portrait of her.

19

family's choice of 02, but these are all great

20

designs.

21

wonderful woman once this, you know, this coin is

22

minted.

And I agree with Dennis.

When I look at this

But again, Dr.

And so, again, I will respect the

I think people will learn about this

Thank you.

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DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

2

MR. MONTAGUE:

3

DR. BROWN:

4

MR. SAUNDERS:

Thank you.

John?
First of all, I'd like

5

to echo somebody else's comment that being part of

6

this committee lets us learn about a lot of

7

interesting people and great people that we might not

8

have learned about otherwise and very glad to learn

9

about Raye Montague.

In terms of designs, I agree

10

with Dennis.

I like number four because it shows what

11

she did.

12

happened there.

13

actually designing ship.

14

think, a little bit better, but maybe artistically

15

it's not quite as good.

16

anyway.

17

back to the days when I first learned to program a

18

computer that had a punch card on it.

19

of the great fears is dropping a stack of punch cards

20

when they went to paper tape with punch tapes.

21

years later, it was so much better because you could

22

never drop your cards and get them out of order.

I mean, number two, it's not clear what
Number four shows me that she's
So it tells the story, I

People will look up the story

I also like design number one.

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This goes

Remember, one

A few

So I

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like the design.

I like the fact it has a punch card

2

that shows how difficult things were to do on a

3

computer back then.

4

here.

5

to download Teams.

6

to do it.

7

the cloud button.

8

download on other programs.

9

back in the 60s, could write code, I can't use a

Partly apologize for being late

My people had me set up on Zoom.

I was trying

Your people walked me through how

The one thing I didn't know was you push
That's a download.

Usually it says

And so even though I --

10

computer today.

11

the story, I like one and four best.

12

artistic design of two.

13

something else.

14

kind of just a straight face would be nicer.

15

guess I'm in a position.

16

too.

17

do like the punch card on there, I mean, that's going

18

back to the days that shows, besides the other things,

19

what somebody designing something on a computer had to

20

overcome.

21
22

So I apologize for my latency.

So

I do like the

I kind of agree with

Maybe her smiling in it as opposed to
But I

I like all three of those

Kind of different reasons for each one.

But I

So thank you.
DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

Let me

just also share with the public that we've had these

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conversations about innovator versus innovation, and

2

that that's something for which we've come to

3

appreciate.

4

we are here actually to actually fulfill what a state

5

says, in fact, represents their innovation for that

6

state.

7

committee and as well as with the public, my 90-year-

8

old mother, when I show her coins, she sees them and

9

she says to me, what does this mean?

It's been guided by the legislation that

And the other thing I'd like to share with the

And I asked her,

10

what do you mean?

11

that's something that means something to her as

12

opposed to something that doesn't have a portrait.

13

Look at it from another way, from a child.

14

be what you can't see.

15

time that we clearly identify the portrait associated

16

with the person who's made this phenomenal innovation.

17

Thank you so much for your courtesy.

18

If she sees a face, then she says

You can't

So it makes sense from time to

We're going to move right along now to

19

actually -- ask Mike or Joe if you have any additional

20

comments you'd like to open.

21

MR. COSTELLO:

22

I have no additional

comments.

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MR. MENNA:

I have none, sir.

2

DR. BROWN:

The committee will now

3

score the reverse candidate designs for the 2025

4

American Innovation $1 coin honoring innovation in

5

Arkansas.

6

score sheets.

7

to Greg Weinman, who will tally the scores and present

8

them back to us once he gets through with them.

9

consider a five-minute break.

Colleagues, each of you have received the
When you are done, please provide them

Five-minute break.

10

(Off the record.)

11

DR. BROWN:

12

Let's

We are back and recognize

Greg Weinman.

13

MR. WEINMAN:

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

14

With 10 members scoring, that means the potential

15

score is 30.

16

number one received 16 points out of 30.

17

number two received 24 points out of 30, making it the

18

high scoring design.

19

points.

20

and design number four received 13 points.

21

again, design two is the clear favorite with 24 of the

22

possible 30 points.

So these scores are out of 30.

Design

Design

Design number three received two

Design number three A received four points,

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DR. BROWN:

Okay.

Is there a motion?

2

MR. HOARD:

This is Kellen Hoard.

I

3

move that we adopt design two with the modifications

4

that we discussed in terms of the head and shoulders

5

to ensure that it meets all guidelines.

6
7

DR. VAN ALFEN:
second.

8
9

DR. BROWN:

DR. CAPOZZOLA:

11

Capozzola.

12

earlier.

13

Montague.

14

This is Chris

I would endorse what Art Bernstein said
There's a delimiter between Arkansas and

DR. BROWN:

It's a friendly amendment

to the motion; do you accept that?

16

MR. HOARD:

17

MS. WARREN:

18

Any discussion on the

motion?

10

15

Peter Van Alfen,

Yeah.
John Saunders has his hand

up.

19

DR. BROWN:

John?

20

MR. SAUNDERS:

I was just agreeing to

21

make the same comment and I think there should be

22

something between the two of them.

And I think we

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should consider if we have a portrait with a smile to

2

it, we make -- consider a smile.

3

it the way it is too.

4

DR. BROWN:

But I'm happy with

Any questions about that?

5

Any further comments about the motion?

Hearing none,

6

all those in favor, signify by saying, aye.

7

GROUP:

Aye.

8

MR. SCARINCI:

9

MR. MORAN:

Just because.

10

DR. BROWN:

All those opposed, please

I abstain, Mr. Chairman.

11

signify it by saying, nay.

12

abstention.

13

motions on this program?

14

all discussion on this program has concluded, I would

15

again like to thank and take a moment to thank Dr.

16

Montague for what you have provided to us.

17

been invaluable.

18

Thank you.

And we have one

Motion carries.
Hearing none.

Any further
See none.

As

It has

And for the record, I also like to note

19

that this is one of less than 20 circulated or

20

commemorative coins that have recognized a scientist

21

or scientific accomplishment since the establishment

22

of the 1792 mint.

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MR. MONTAGUE:

Thank you.

Thank you

2

for allowing me to participate in this process.

3

I'm just overwhelmed right now.

4
5

DR. BROWN:

MR. MONTAGUE:

Thank you.

You all too.

Bye bye.

8
9

Have a

great remainder of the day.

6
7

Thank you so much.

And

DR. BROWN:

We will now begin

consideration of the candidate designs for the Flowing

10

Hair Gold Coin and Silver Medal.

11

Chief of the Mint's Office of Design Management, will

12

introduce the program and present the candidate

13

designs.

14

MS. STAFFORD:

April Stafford,

Thank you.

The Flowing

15

Hair Dollar designed by then chief engraver Robert

16

Scott, was the first dollar coin struck by the United

17

States federal government with the first minting on

18

October 15, 1794.

19

ounce 24 karat gold coin and 1 ounce silver medal to

20

mark the 130th anniversary of this first mintage.

21

Both the coin and medal will feature the 1794 Flowing

22

Hair $1 obverse and reverse design.

In 2024, the Mint will offer a 1

To honor the

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original, the mint will follow the same minimal

2

inscriptions on the next 1794 Flowing Hair Dollar coin

3

on both the gold coin and silver medal.

4

edge inscribed nomination will also be included on the

5

gold coin.

6

Commission of Fine Arts on October 19.

7

presented faithfully recreated the original 1794

8

coins.

9

also present for comparison these designs with slight

The original

The mint presented these designs to the
The renders

After review, the CFA requested the mint to

10

revisions to address alignment concerns on the obverse

11

and reverse.

12

today includes both the original renders that are

13

faithful to the 1794 coins and revised renders per the

14

CFA's request.

15

separate from the American Liberty Biennial Program.

16

So starting with the obverse, this image of the

17

proposed 2024 obverse --

The updated portfolio you'll consider

Note that this offering would be

18

MS. WARREN:

19

MS. STAFFORD:

We're not sharing.
There we go.

This image

20

of the proposed 2024 Flowing Hair Dollar, 24 karat

21

gold coin and silver medal obverse presents the

22

original 1794 silver dollar with an updated 2024 date

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and retains the Liberty inscription.

The portrait of

2

Liberty faces right and is surrounded by 15 stars,

3

representing the 15 states that had ratified the

4

Constitution by 1794.

5

the silver medal, the gold coin will incuse the

6

denomination on the edge of the coin.

7

As with the 1794 silver dollar that was originally

8

created, the gold coin in 2024 will incuse the

9

denomination on the edge of the coin as follows, 100

As with the 1794 silver dollar,

I apologize.

10

cents, $1 or unit with decorations separating each

11

word.

12

version slightly shifts the 2024 inscription to the

13

right to center it between the stars at the bottom of

14

the design.

15

forth easily between the original and the revised.

16

Okay.

17

Moving on to the revised version.

This revised

So I don't know if we can go back and

Moving on to the reverse.

This image

18

presents the proposed reverse design for both the

19

silver medal and gold coin versions.

20

original, a laurel wreath surrounds an eagle with

21

spread wings in the center.

22

the American heraldic eagle, the design also retains

As in the 1794

An early predecessor of

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the inscription United States of America.

2

version slightly shifts the inscription United States

3

of America toward the border to create a bit more

4

space between the inscription and the wreath.

5

could just quickly toggle between the very slight

6

change and the revised.

7

the CFA reviewed these week before last at their

8

November meeting, their recommendation was for the

9

revised versions to move forward.

10

The revised

We

And I will just note, when

That concludes the

candidate designs.

11

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

MR. MORAN:

I have a question for

15

DR. BROWN:

Please.

16

MR. MORAN:

This is Mike Moran.

12

there any --

13
14

Are

April.

April,

17

does this program have legs?

18

just the 1794 design rendition?

19

terms of future issues that will follow this one.

20

MS. STAFFORD:

Is there more to it than
More contemplated in

So I believe that was

21

part of the CCAC's recommendation; is that correct?

22

That was read and shared in the October version, so

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that has been shared internally.

2

presently to this particular issue.

3

conversations are going to be taking place, though,

4

about that recommendation.

5

DR. BROWN:

I can only speak
I do know that

Thank you.

Are there any

6

other technical or legal questions from the committee

7

about this program?

8

DR. FULLER:

9

DR. BROWN:

10

Mr. Chairman?
Yes, sir.

DR. FULLER:

This is Dr. Fuller.

11

April, I also noticed that -- and I forget which is

12

which, but I think the original version was lighter or

13

darker in shade because when you switched between

14

both, one was lighter, and one was darker; is that a

15

design feature or not?

16
17
18

MS. STAFFORD:

Not a design feature.

I'll ask Joe to comment on that.
MR. MENNA:

Yeah.

Dr. Fuller, just

19

being done in different time periods, not expecting to

20

go to a second version.

21

environment was just a little different.

22

light and shade.

The digital rendering
It's just

They're the exact same basins, exact

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same relief.

It's really just a function of the

2

lighting and the render.

3

outside of the aging --

4

DR. FULLER:

5

MR. MENNA:

6

Thank you.
-- of the inscriptions.

Yes, sir.

7
8

There's no difference

MS. WARREN:

Dr. Brown, John has his

hand up.

9

DR. BROWN:

John?

10

MS. WARREN:

You're muted, sir.

11

MR. SAUNDERS:

I have a quick question.

12

Looking at the original versus revised, I feel like

13

I'm a bus dollar variety collector trying to find the

14

differences.

15

further away from the date, is there any other

16

difference between the revised and the original?

On the obverse, besides moving the stars

17

MS. STAFFORD:

No.

18

MR. SAUNDERS:

Okay.

19

DR. BROWN:

20

DR. CAPOZZOLA:

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Chris?

Just a question.

What

21

is the diameter of this that's contemplated and how

22

does that relate to the original 1794 dimensions?

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2

MS. STAFFORD:

So the diameter -- Mike,

MR. COSTELLO:

This is Mike Costello.

if you could --

3
4

The diameter for the silver will be 1.6 inches.

Off

5

the top of my head, I do not know the original.

It's

6

definitely smaller.

7
8

MS. STAFFORD:

Do you know the gold

MR. COSTELLO:

And the gold will be the

coin?

9
10

1.1, I believe, 1.1.

11

match.

12
13

(inaudible)

DR. CAPOZZOLA:

No intention to

That'd be 34

millimeters --

14

MR. COSTELLO:

15

MR. MENNA:

Yes.

If I can ask -- this is

16

Joseph Menna.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chris, the

17

other thing, what makes these things the main

18

difference between the original and the relief, these

19

coins (inaudible) the originals are flat, and these

20

are going to be polished, so they're going to look

21

crisper, and they look more bold.

22

except the original versions with the inscriptions

But otherwise,

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where they were are absolutely faithful.

2

corresponding to the to the original sculpt.

3

original sculpt.

4

Those are the only differences.

5

Noetic
To the

The change inscriptions are not.

MS. STAFFORD:

And a quick Internet

6

search by our design manager indicates that the

7

original diameter seemed to be 39 to 40 millimeters.

8

DR. CAPOZZOLA:

9

MS. STAFFORD:

10

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.
Uh-huh.

One other point (inaudible)

11

This is going to be -- the gold is going to be high

12

relief.

13

MR. MENNA:

My understanding, and ,

14

Mike, correct me, basically the same with the Liberty

15

program.

16

would necessarily be low relief, bigger coin.

17

very much like the American Liberty Program in terms

18

of relief dimensions --

The gold will be high relief.

The silver

19

DR. CAPOZZOLA:

20

MR. MENNA:

-- and planchettes.

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

21
22

Very,

Thank you.
Yes,

sir.

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other questions from the committee?

2

Let's begin our consideration.

3

Moran.

4

MR. MORAN:

Seeing none.

Let's begin with Mike

Thank you.

Speechless for a change.

This is Mike

5

Moran.

6

obviously, the only thing we're being asked to address

7

at this point is whether we prefer the original or the

8

revised.

I don't know.

9

There you go.

DR. BROWN:

10

you for your brevity.

11

on to Peter?

12

No, I guess

Thank you so much.

We appreciate that.

DR. VAN ALFEN:

Thank

Let's move

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

13

This is Peter Van Alfen.

Since this coin, my

14

understanding, is essentially an homage to the

15

original 1794.

16

quirkiness of the original 1794 issue and therefore

17

would support the original rather than the revised.

18

think that the quirkiness does add some flavor, as it

19

were to this homage and reissue, essentially, of the

20

coin.

I would prefer to maintain the

So that's what I've got to say.

21

DR. BROWN:

22

MR. SCARINCI:

I

Thanks.

Donald?
So there's a distinction

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between a reproduction and a restrike, right?

And the

2

Mint archives have a great deal to offer to restrike a

3

lot of our, you know, a lot of classic designs.

4

there's a draw of, you know, of patterns that can be

5

restruck with beautiful designs.

6

coins, I prefer to buy them from the Sunshine Mint.

7

mean, quite frankly, this is not a coin that I will

8

buy, you know, or have any interest in whatsoever.

9

understand, you know, collectors are clamoring for

And

And for reproduction

10

these old classics, but all we're doing here is

11

reproducing.

12

reproductions.

13

good reproduction, right?

14

with a reproduction, go with something that looks as

15

close as possible to the original.

16

know, I also agree with Mike.

17

original, but, you know, I'm not voting for this

18

because I think it's a waste of people's money.

19
20
21
22

I

I

You know, we're just making
We're not -- these are reproductions,

DR. BROWN:

And if you're going to go

So I would, you

I would support the

Thank you so much.

We'll

go on to Dennis?
MR. TUCKER:
This is Dennis Tucker.

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

I think this will be popular

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in silver, very popular and reasonably popular in

2

gold.

3

the design is academic because these are, as Donald

4

pointed out, renderings or interpretations rather than

5

technological restrikes.

6

as well if we're going to go down that road.

7

no objection to the revised version, but I think the

8

original is closer to the idiosyncrasy of the 1794

9

coin.

I think some of the going back and forth about

I have

Thank you.

10
11

But I do prefer the original

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

Let's

turn to Art?

12

MR. BERNSTEIN:

13

Bernstein.

14

and I don't know.

15

quirkiness.

This is Arthur

I find myself wavering between quirkiness
I think I'm going to lean towards

16

DR. BROWN:

Okay.

17

MR. SAUNDERS:

John?

The discussion whether

18

the original or the revised seems to me almost

19

unimportant and moot because while the design is

20

clearly the 1794 $5, it doesn't look anything like it.

21

I mean, anybody that's looked at the coin, it's so

22

stylistically different that it's nowhere close to the

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original.

2

stylistically different, I don't think it matters

3

whether you maintain the star closer to the date or

4

not.

5

question is, do we want this new revised thing that

6

has perfect detail, it shows it off in a way that

7

technically they couldn't do in 1794.

8

ways I like it, in other ways I hate it.

9

that is the big question for any of the times we're

10

using design is we want to use something that takes

11

design but makes it where it doesn't look anything

12

like it because of, you know, the ability to strike

13

things differently now.

14

think we should be discussing.

15

changes -- you've made so many changes from the

16

original to this, a couple more changes don't bother

17

me at all.

I find that completely moot.

18
19

So if you are going to be that much

But the main

And in some
But I think

So that's the question I
But if you make the

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

MR. HOARD:

Thank you.

Turn to

Kellen?

20

I actually did

21

have a technical question which I forgot to mention

22

earlier.

Is this still going to be laser engraved

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dyes?

2
3

MR. MENNA:

Yes, these will be laser

engraved master dye?

4

MR. HOARD:

Master dye.

Sure.

I'm

5

pretty much ambivalent on the difference between

6

original and revised, but just kind of the committee

7

generally pushing towards original.

8

that way as well.

9

to shift the date over or shift the reverse out toward

I think I'd head

To me, there's not really a reason

10

the edge.

So we might as well maintain the

11

idiosyncrasies, and so, I'll be voting for original.

12

DR. BROWN:

13

DR. FULLER:

Harcourt?
Thank you, Dr. Brown.

I'm

14

indifferent as well.

15

be made for both, although, I guess there is something

16

to be said about using modern methods and modern

17

technologies to, I guess you could say recalibrate, if

18

you will, original designs.

19
20
21
22

I think there is an argument to

DR. BROWN:

So I'm indifferent.
Thank you so much.

Turn to

Chris?
DR. CAPOZZOLA:

So those of you who are

indifferent may wish to flip a coin.

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I share some of

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1

this uncertainty.

I will just observe, we may be

2

setting precedent here by making certain choices if

3

there are others, if this turns into a series or if

4

the Mint contemplates other kind of issuance like

5

that.

6

otherwise I think I share some of the flight

7

preference for the original design.

So we should tread a little bit carefully.

But

8

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

Mike?

9

MR. MORAN:

This is Mike Moran again

10

who is now going to get off the fence.

I think if you

11

continue this program to other designs that are in

12

your library, your portfolio, so to speak, if you

13

start to make modifications for aesthetic purposes, I

14

think you quickly will run into too many issues.

15

a lot easier to just stay with the original and let

16

the original imperfections flow through.

17

of the essence of the design to begin with.

18

relief, I agree with Donald and with John that

19

particularly the gold version and the high relief is

20

not going to be very recognizable to a collector who

21

can afford these coins.

22

therefore encourage that when you do the silver, gold

Most of us can't.

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It's

They're part
As to the

I would

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1

but silver, that you try and stay true to as much as

2

you can to the original coin relief that was executed

3

at the Mint in 1794.

4

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

With

5

respect to the comments from my colleagues here, I'm

6

leaning in the direction that we stay as close to what

7

the original is, recognizing that what we are having

8

here is using modern technology to bring back a

9

beloved design by many collectors.

Based on that --

10

MR. MORAN:

(inaudible) motion.

11

DR. BROWN:

You want a motion?

12

MR. MORAN:

Yeah, I'll make a motion --

DR. BROWN:

I don't think we need to

13

-

14
15

(inaudible) Please proceed with the motion.

16
17

MR. MORAN:

I move that we recommend

that the -- stick to the original designs.

18

DR. VAN ALFEN:

19

DR. BROWN:

20

motion.

21
22

And I often second.

Conversation now about the

First, let's go to our chief engraver.
MS. WARREN:

John Saunders has his hand

up.

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2

DR. BROWN:

Before we do that, you may

have some more information from our chief engraver.

3

MR. SAUNDERS:

Just briefly, I'm not

4

trying to endorse one or the other.

But historical

5

context, the letters, the way that this manifested

6

two-dimensional designs in the obverse and reverse

7

fully the original version.

8

letter would be akin to -- stylistically, I understand

9

what John's talking about, but that's just a function

Changing the spacing of

10

of the relief.

This manifests the kind of naive,

11

sculptural style of that period, which is embodied by

12

sculptors like William Rush and others very fully.

13

you're going to change the letters, why not start

14

modernizing the relief, too?

15

replica coin.

16

Morgan.

17

we made from the original because everything embodies

18

the 2D fully is the edge lettering, because that

19

functionally, we could not make the edge lettering as

20

it was on the original and strike it successfully.

21

this is kind of an odd thing.

22

reproduction, but it's also not really -- it's not a

If

This is not a full

This is not what we did with Peace and

This is atypical.

The only real difference

It's not really a

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replica, rather, because that's a flat coin.

2

you do want to, the two-dimensional fidelity to the

3

original is fully attached.

4

Thank you.

5

But if

I would just submit.

Unnecessarily, perhaps.
DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

I've

6

got a motion on the table.

7

comment on the motion or something else you'd like to

8

speak to?

9

John, do you have a

MR. WEINMAN:

10

MS. WARREN:

11

MR. SAUNDERS:

You're muted, sir.
You're still muted.
Yes, I have a comment on

12

the motion and a friendly amendment to it.

I

13

understand what Joe's saying.

14

different than the original design, but following the

15

lines of the original design, I would like to see the

16

Mint come back with a design that looks like the

17

original and then voting between the two.

18

sure that -- I don't like the concept of having the

19

original made better as opposed to original.

20

think if we're voting between two things, we should be

21

voting between the original design that looks like the

22

original design and the surrealistic update of the

This is something

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I'm not

But I

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original design that we have here.

2

to Mike that we ask the Mint to give us those two

3

choices and bring this back the next meeting.

4

DR. BROWN:

So I would suggest

Based on my understanding

5

of what you're recommending, it doesn't seem to me

6

that would be a friendly amendment.

7

something that's contrary to the motion.

8

speaking against the motion that Mike just offered,

9

correct?

10
11

MR. SAUNDERS:

That would be
So you're

No, I think he's saying

we make (inaudible) of it.

12

DR. BROWN:

He is not embracing of it.

13

Any other comments or questions about the motion on

14

the table?

15

motion --

Hearing none.

16
17

All those in favor of the

MS. STAFFORD:
motion, please?

18

Can you repeat the

Sorry.
MR. MORAN:

Somebody repeat it for me.

19

I move that we stay with the original.

20

all I said --

21

MS. STAFFORD:

22

MR. MORAN:

I think that's

Thank you.

-- as presented this

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morning.

2

MS. STAFFORD:

3

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

There being no other

4

comments with respect to the motion on the table.

5

those in favor of the motion, please signify by saying

6

aye.

7

GROUP:

8

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:

9

MR. SCARINCI:

10

All

Aye.
Naye.

One abstention, Mr.

Chairman?

11

DR. BROWN:

One abstention.

12

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:

13

DR. BROWN:

Aye.

Any opposed?

So, all in

14

favor except for one abstention.

15

It's going to be -- I think it's going to be still

16

valuable to the Mint to do the score and just hand it

17

in; is that fair?

18

MR. WEINMAN:

19

DR. BROWN:

20

MS. WARREN:

The motion carries.

It's not necessary.
Very good.
And this is Jennifer

21

Warren.

Dr. Brown, we can move to the next portfolio

22

that was due to come up after lunch because my

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understanding is both of the liaisons are on and they

2

said that would be good, so we could stay on track

3

because we're about an hour ahead, if that's still

4

good with the members?

5

DR. BROWN:

6

MS. WARREN:

Members?
If you want to take a

7

five-minute break, but --

8

DR. BROWN:

9

MR. BERNSTEIN:

10

DR. BROWN:

MR. BERNSTEIN:

MS. WARREN:

DR. BROWN:

18

MS. WARREN:

19

DR. BROWN:

21
22

Let's take five

And then move to the next

portfolio?

17

20

Yeah.

minutes.

15
16

The next five-minute break

--

13
14

Let's plod on to the

next --

11
12

Members, what should I do?

break.

Yeah.
Okay.
Let's take a five-minute

Five-minute recess.
MS. WARREN:

So we'll be doing the U.S.

Army Veterans World War II Congressional Gold Medal in

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five minutes.

2

DR. BROWN:

All right.

3

(Off the record.)

4

MS. WARREN:

Okay.

We are back.

And I

5

hand it off to Dr. Brown to move to the U.S. Army

6

Rangers of Veterans of World War II Congressional Gold

7

Medal.

8
9

DR. BROWN:
morning, sorry.

Morning.

Good afternoon.

Still

We'll now move to review

10

the reverse and obverse candidate designs for the Army

11

Rangers of World War II Congressional Gold Medal.

12

April Stafford, Chief of the Mint's Office of Design

13

Management will introduce the program and present the

14

candidate designs.

15

MS. STAFFORD:

Thank you.

Some

16

background on this program.

17

a Congressional Gold Medal to the United States Army

18

Rangers Veterans of World War II in recognition of

19

their extraordinary service during World War II.

20

Public Law 117-132 awards

In the United States, Rangers have

21

existed since the 1700s, but following the Civil War,

22

no Ranger units were activated until World War II.

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In

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1

1942 the U.S. Army formed the first of seven Ranger

2

battalions from a pool of selected volunteers.

3

initial concept combined the British method of using

4

highly trained "commando" units and the military

5

tradition of the United States of utilizing light

6

infantry units for scouting and raiding operations.

7

In fact, the 1st Ranger Battalion received a double-

8

edged "Fairbairn-Sykes" commando knife, a symbol of

9

the British Commandos, after completing their training

The

10

with the Commandos in Scotland.

The first combat

11

operation occurred on August 19th, 1942, when 50

12

Rangers took part in the British-Canadian raid on the

13

French coast.

14

resulted in the first of eight U.S. Presidential Unit

15

Citations awarded to the Rangers, two additional

16

Ranger battalions were organized in North Africa.

17

These actions demonstrated that the Rangers possessed

18

the fortitude to fight in difficult terrain and

19

embodied the courage necessary to endure despite being

20

outnumbered and exposed to heavy enemy fire.

21

William O. Darby, the first U.S. WWII Ranger and the

22

first commander of a WWII Ranger Battalion,

After many successful missions that

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Colonel

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1

recognizing how crucial these American commandos would

2

be to the war effort, pushed to expand the Rangers.

3

In April 1943, he requested additional

4

soldiers trained in the Ranger concept of combat.

5

With his request denied, Darby divided the 1st Ranger

6

Battalion into three distinct units that formed the

7

basis for a new Ranger Battalion:

8

Ranger Battalion, the new 3rd Ranger Battalion, and

9

the new 4th Ranger Battalion.

the reformed 1st

Additional soldiers

10

were recruited from replacement personnel centers or

11

depots.

12

from volunteers drawn from the 29th Infantry Division

13

stationed in Tidworth Barracks, England, was activated

14

on December 20th, 1942.

15

participate in any battalion or company-size combat

16

operations, the 29th conducted smaller raids on the

17

English Channel Islands and on the Norwegian coast.

18

The unit was disbanded due to the formation of the 2nd

19

and 5th Ranger Battalions in Camp Forrest, Tennessee.

20

The 6th Ranger Battalion operated in the Pacific

21

theatre.

22

Battalions carried out successful and heroic missions

The 29th Provisional Ranger Battalion, formed

Although they did not

Once formed, the six active-duty Ranger

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throughout the North African, European, and Pacific

2

theatres.

3

2nd Ranger Battalion was their climb up the cliffs of

4

Pointe du Hoc in Normandy, a feat memorialized by

5

President Reagan in his 40th anniversary speech about

6

the "Boys of Pointe du Hoc" in 1984.

7

One of the most celebrated missions of the

During the 5th Ranger Battalion's beach

8

landing at nearby Omaha Beach, Brigadier General

9

Norman Cota from the 29th Infantry Division stopped to

10

ask the Ranger Battalion Commander to identify his

11

unit.

12

then, lead the way, Rangers!"

13

altered to "Rangers Lead the Way!" and has since

14

become the motto for the Rangers still in use.

Brigadier General Cota then commanded, "Well

15

This command was later

Approximately, seven thousand men from

16

active duty and provisional WWII Ranger Battalions

17

were collectively awarded eight Presidential Unit

18

Citations.

19

and are buried in numerous American cemeteries

20

overseas.

21

us today.

22

Many Rangers made the ultimate sacrifice

Only 12 Rangers are known to still be with

We are so pleased to have with us our

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liaisons for this program.

2

Hudnell, the project manager for this congressional

3

gold medal and a representative of the descendants of

4

the World War II Rangers, as well as Jimmie Spencer

5

with the association of the United States Army.

6

invite Mr. Hudnell or Mr. Spencer to say a few words?

7

MR. HUDNELL:

I'd like to introduce Ron

Okay.

May I

Thank you very

8

much for inviting Command Sergeant Major Retired

9

Spencer and myself to this meeting to answer any

10

questions that you may have and for us to be able to

11

present.

12

should be awarded the Congressional Gold Medal and the

13

elements we would like to see on the Congressional

14

Gold Medal design.

15

committee the descendants of World War II Ranger

16

League.

17

-- that committee wanted to see on the medal, and

18

those nine elements are contained within our first

19

tourist preferences, both the off birth and the

20

rebirth.

21

were selected by the Commission of Fine Arts.

22

very thankful and happy for that.

The reasons that the World War II Rangers

The -- I am the liaison from the

There were nine elements that they wanted to

And those were the same two designs that
We're

They had a couple

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of suggestions from their recent meeting, and we're

2

able to address those today if you would like.

3

Jimmie, do you have anything you want to say?

4

MR. SPENCER:

Yes.

So,

First of all, thank

5

you for allowing us to do this and be here.

I've been

6

listening to your proceedings all morning, and I'm

7

very impressed.

8

I've learned a lot.

9

United States Army, and a small group of former

You guys are doing a great job, and
I represent the Association

10

Rangers, many of whom are in the Ranger Hall of Fame.

11

And although we seldom agree with anything, we have

12

come together along with the family members, and we

13

think that we've got the best possible Gold Medals

14

that represent the heritage and the history of our

15

Rangers.

16

are concerned about is those 12 Rangers who are still

17

surviving, and hopefully that we will be able to

18

present this to them or show this to them while

19

they're still with us.

20

to be here.

21
22

And one of the things that we collectively

So thank you for allowing us

MS. STAFFORD:
much.

Okay.

Thank you so

And yes, we will very likely ask you to comment

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on the CFA suggestions, or rather, the committee will

2

likely call on you to weigh in.

3

through the obverse candidate designs.

4

This is our liaison's second preferred design for the

5

obverse.

6

as well as the recommendation of the CFA.

7

that the word "SALERNO" will also appear on this side

8

as well as the preferred reverse.

9

note of that here.

First, we'll move
We have O-01.

O-04, our liaison's preferred obverse design
You'll note

So I'll just make

Also, the CFA noted that the

10

exclamation points on "RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!"

11

suggested that unless it was really part of the motto,

12

that it be considered for removal.

13

checked with our liaisons, and they do feel that it is

14

actually an integral part of the motto and is only

15

ever seen using the exclamation mark.

16

They

I believe that we

Moving on to O-06 and O-07, our

17

liaison's third preferred obverse.

Moving on to the

18

reverse candidate designs, we have R-01.

19

liaison's third preferred reverse.

20

R-04, R-07A, our liaison's first preferred design for

21

the reverse as well as the recommendation by the CFA.

22

Note again the repeat of the word "SALERNO".

It is our

R-01A, R-02, R-03,

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believe let me just ask Boneza Hanchock, our design

2

manager, for this program.

3

across both?

Does World War II repeat

4

MS. HANCHOCK:

Yes.

5

MS. STAFFORD:

And so, we also have the

6

repeated inscription World War II.

Again, once we

7

move through the candidate designs, perhaps we can go

8

back to our liaisons to comment on any duplicated

9

inscription and give you some of their thoughts before

10

you deliberate.

11

next candidate design R-07B, and then finally R-08B.

12

So that concludes the candidate designs.

13

And then we have -- moving on to the

Chairman Brown, I don't know if you

14

want to have the liaisons speak to their thoughts on

15

the --

16
17
18

DR. BROWN:

I think that would be

appropriate.
MS. STAFFORD:

Okay.

So, Ron or

19

Jimmie, would you like to share your thoughts?

I know

20

you listened in, and you heard the CFA's comments

21

about some of the repeated inscriptions across the

22

obverse and reverse.

Would you like to make your

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observations or ideas about how that might be

2

remedied?

3

MR. HUDNELL:

Well, we think that the

4

"SALERNO" on the obverse should be replaced with

5

"CHIUNZI," C-H-I-U-N-Z-I.

6

letters.

7

World War II Rangers received their citations, the

8

Presidential Unit Citation.

9

like should replace "Salerno."

It's the same number of

It's also more accurate as to where the

So that's what we feel
Actually, we would

10

like to have Chiunzi Pass, but we recognize that's

11

more letters, it might create engraving problems.

12

we're willing to consider "Chiunzi" instead of

13

"Salerno" on the obverse.

14

MS. STAFFORD:

15

MR. SPENCER:

16

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:

17

So

Thank you.
I agree 100 percent.
Did you say,

Chiunzi Pass?

18

MS. STAFFORD:

19

MR. SPENCER:

Yes.
And we do strongly feel

20

that the exclamation point should be retained on the

21

"RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!"

22

As I mentioned to the Brigadier General Cota

That is part of the motto.

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came onto Omaha Beach, he issued a command to the

2

Rangers.

3

way.

4

exclamation point is important.

He was not asking them nicely to lead the

He was telling them forcefully, so that

5

MS. STAFFORD:

Thank you.

So there we

6

have the commentary on "SALERNO" being removed from

7

that top location and replaced with "CHIUNZI" or

8

"CHIUNZI PASS," if the space would allow retaining the

9

exclamation mark.

10

And is it correct that you would

like World War II to remain on the obverse as well?

11

MR. HUDNELL:

12

remain on the obverse.

13

from the reverse.

14

I think it could be removed

MS. STAFFORD:

15

reverse now.

16

at 7A.

Thank you.

We would like it to

Okay.

We'll move to the

All right.

17

MR. HUDNELL:

18

MS. STAFFORD:

So we're looking

7A.
Okay.

There we are.

19

"SALERNO" would stay here, and World War II could be

20

removed.

21
22

MR. HUDNELL:
on the location.

Correct.

One other point

On the reverse, we have the

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locations where the Rangers made their seven combat or

2

six combat landings in World War II.

3

the landing craft assault on the obverse.

4

point is, maybe we should put the landing on the same

5

side with the landing craft and the locations where

6

the Rangers were awarded Presidential Unit Citations

7

on the same side as the Presidential Unit Citation

8

Ribbon that you see at the top of 7A.

9

DR. BROWN:

And we detect
So the

And further comments,

10

suggestions?

Then we will begin by asking members of

11

the committee, do they have any technical or legal

12

questions about this program?

13

DR. VAN ALFEN:

This is Peter Van

14

Alfen.

15

but I do have a question for our liaisons.

16

Hudnell, you had mentioned nine elements that you

17

wanted or the groups that you represent wanted to see

18

incorporated.

19

elements are?

20

I don't have a technical or legal question,
Mr.

Could you expand on what those nine

MR. HUDNELL:

Sure.

The first, the

21

committee felt that the Southern combat landings

22

should be listed on the coin, which they are on the

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reverse that you see.

They wanted an image of a

2

landing craft assault.

3

that carried Rangers into most of those combat

4

landings.

5

patch on a uniform.

6

obverse.

7

shown -- it is there, but it's very difficult to see.

8

They wanted the motto "RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!"

9

wanted the British "Fairbairn-Sykes" commando knife,

It was a British landing craft

They would like to see the Ranger shoulder
That is not reflected on the

The soldiers landing on the beach, is not

They

10

which you see on the reverse.

They wanted the

11

numbered Ranger's scroll, which you also see both for

12

the authorized 6th Ranger Battalions and then the 29th

13

Provisional Ranger Battalion.

14

important to have that on the medal.

15

word World War II.

16

Infantryman Badge, in which you see on the reverse.

They felt it was
They wanted the

And then they wanted a Combat

17

DR. VAN ALFEN:

18

MR. HUDNELL:

All right.

Thank you.

The -- some of the

19

artists depicted the landings for the Presidential

20

Unit Citations or the locations for the Presidential

21

Unit Citations.

22

important, but it was not in their original list of

And so, they felt that was also

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nine elements that they would like to see.

2
3

DR. VAN ALFEN:

All right.

Thank you

very much.

4

DR. BROWN:

Further questions from the

5

committee?

I do have just a few.

6

think that Mr. Hudnell mentioned that you are Sergeant

7

Major; is that correct?

8

MR. HUDNELL:

9

DR. BROWN:

And, Mr. Spencer, I

Yes, sir.
So the reason why I raised

10

this, because I believe that it's our responsibility

11

to make sure we educate other persons who, in fact,

12

may not have had the privilege of serving.

13

that when I served, there's one word that we never

14

said to the noncommissioned officers.

15

serve to them because they told us they always work

16

for their living.

17

(inaudible)

18

I remember

We never said

Is that something that you embrace,

MR. SPENCER:

We work for a living.

19

And if I had my way about it, we'd put that on the

20

coin.

21
22

DR. BROWN:

Appreciate that.

The other

question I have, the Combat Infantry Badge, is that

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something that all Rangers achieved before they left

2

that Ranger school or is that something that was only

3

awarded to some of the Rangers?

4

MR. SPENCER:

The Combat Infantry Badge

5

is awarded to instrument who spent at least, I think,

6

90 days a minimum in combat.

7

designed for the Rangers.

8

combat instrument who's ever fought since World War

9

II.

10

DR. BROWN:

It's not specifically

It is for any and every

Thank you so much.

Then,

11

unless there's any other question from the committee

12

members, if not, then let's begin our consideration.

13

And I'd like to if colleagues would appreciate and

14

allow me the discretion to begin the process.

15

have a few comments.

16

support the preferences by you as well as the CFA and

17

I do so for a couple of reasons.

18

my colleagues are going to have a stroke made of this.

19

I really like number four, because it has the most

20

negative space.

21

really stand out and pop.

22

suggest this one is that compared to some designs, for

I just

First and foremost, I agree and

One, is that -- and

It allows for that major element to
The also reason why I

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example, six, O-06, you really can't tell what the

2

insignia is on the helmet.

3

know, this could be either a major or lieutenant

4

colonel based on what I could see.

5

in fact, have the full (inaudible) colonel leading the

6

battalion.

7

really appreciate.

8

why I like O-04 is that it does have action and that

9

action is, in fact, landing on the base -- on

And if you say, as you

So it's better to,

So for me that makes it even easier to
The other is that -- the reason

10

landings.

11

troops into battle?

12

think about and our service persons who, in fact,

13

defend this country as often as they do in many places

14

that they do so.

So those are my comments with

15

respect to that.

And again, I'm going to be in favor

16

of those that have been favored by you as well as the

17

CFA.

18
19
20
21
22

So where you see an officer leading their
So to me it reminds me of what we

Going to move now to my colleagues next
for this.

So let's move then with Donald.
MR. SCARINCI:

I support the liaison's

recommendations on the Congressional Gold Medal.
DR. BROWN:

Outstanding.

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DR. VAN ALFEN:

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

2

Peter Van Alfen.

3

recommendations as well since they incorporate the

4

nine elements and do seem generally to be fairly

5

strong designs.

6

like R-02 quite a bit.

7

strong and attractive design.

8

the scene of action there as well.

9

happy to support the recommendations of O-04 and 7A.

10

I'm happy to support the

I do want to say that I really do
I think that's a really rather
And in R-04, I do like
But again, I'm

Thank you.

11

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

12

MR. WEINMAN:

13

MR. SAUNDERS:

John?

You're muted, John.
Okay.

Sorry about that.

14

Excuse me.

I would also support the recommendations.

15

This is a situation where I like almost all the

16

designs.

17

similar, sometimes you decide that you'd like the one

18

better than the other.

19

go with what the liaisons recommend.

I think when you compare two that look

But I like them all, so I'll

20

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

Kellen?

21

MR. HOARD:

Thank you.

This is Kellen

22

Hoard.

For the obverse, I was really kind of split

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between option one and option seven.

I thought that

2

those, which I know, were the second and third

3

preferences of the liaisons.

4

some of the more compelling images.

5

embodies the motto of leading the way.

6

see them doing that, especially the seven, beckoning

7

them forward.

8

I think they're balanced.

9

interesting.

I think that those are
I think it really
You can really

I think that those two are compelling.
I think they're

I think they're clean.

My concern with

10

four largely relates to my preference for the reverse.

11

I like the liaison's first preference of 7A for the

12

reverse.

I think it works as it is, 7A for the

13

reverse.

And so I would support 7A fully.

14

worry in many ways about the redundancy issues with

15

four.

16

design, especially paired with that reverse, whereas I

17

think one or seven for the obverse really pairs nicely

18

with 7A for the reverse.

19

four towards, kind of, the depictions in one and

20

seven, which it seems like meets most between one

21

seven and then R-7A meets all nine of the stipulations

22

and I think is a much more compelling set of designs.

But then I

And I worry that four isn't quite as clean of a

And so, I move away from

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Thank you.

2
3

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

Dr.

Fuller?

4

DR. FULLER:

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

5

This is Dr. Harcourt Fuller.

I think this is a

6

wonderful portfolio.

7

choices.

8

reminding us that we just commemorated Veterans Day.

9

And it's really an honor to review this portfolio in

I will support the liaison's

And, Dr. Brown, I must thank you for

10

the same month for the sacrifices that these great

11

Americans have made for our country and for our

12

future.

Thank you.

13
14

DR. BROWN:
thoughtful comments.

15

Thank you so much for your

Let's turn now to Dennis?

MR. TUCKER:

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

16

This is Dennis Tucker.

I support the liaison's

17

preferences.

18

R-7A helps balance it.

19

bothered me having World and War separated that way on

20

7A.

21

troubles me a little bit.

It almost reads, World War

22

II, Rangers lead the way.

Even though the word

I think that removing World War II from
That was something that

However, I -- it -- the lettering on O-04

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Rangers is larger, I wonder if there's some way, we

2

could add some space or some other way to make that

3

distinction between the concept of World War II and

4

the motto of (inaudible) Lead the way.

5

don't know if our liaisons quite finished their

6

thoughts on changing the names of the different

7

military engagements and moving those around on

8

obverse and reverse.

9

anything to add to that.

10

And then, I

I don't know if you have
And those are my comments.

Thank you.

11

MR. HUDNELL:

Well, the point that I

12

was trying to make is the landing craft is depicted on

13

the obverse, but the locations for the landing is on

14

the reverse.

15

for the Presidential Unit Citations, but on the

16

reverse, we have the Presidential Citation Ribbon in

17

the upper portion of the medal.

18

be (inaudible) if that makes sense or could

19

(inaudible)

20

And on the uppers, we have the locations

MS. STAFFORD:

21

Stafford.

22

possibility.

The locations should

So this is April

I did speak with Mike Costello about that
And it looks like it is something that

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could be accommodated just literally inverting the

2

placement of the border inscriptions from obverse to

3

reverse.

4

MR. TUCKER:

Thank you.

5

DR. BROWN:

6

MR. BERNSTEIN:

Art?
This is Arthur

7

Bernstein.

I also agree with the first preferences of

8

the liaisons.

9

essential elements, and I'm pleased that those

I listened carefully to the nine

10

requirements were all met.

I have a 10th element that

11

I like to see when we consider the Congressional Gold

12

Medals, and that is the phrase, "Act of Congress,"

13

which indicates that it is a Congressional Gold Medal.

14

And I would just raise the question, as we're moving

15

lettering around, taking the redundant World War II

16

off of one side, might we add, "Act of Congress" to

17

make it clear that it is a Congressional Gold Medal.

18

Thank you.

19

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

20

MR. MORAN:

This is Mike Moran.

Mike?
I

21

personally want to compliment the sponsors of this

22

because oftentimes when we get these medal designs in

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here, the sponsors have gone off on an angle at a

2

different track than what they really should.

3

guys were well grounded in the way you judged these,

4

and you came up, in my opinion, with the right

5

selections, out for both the obverse and the reverse.

6
7

DR. BROWN:

Turn to

Chris?

8
9

Thank you so much.

You

DR. CAPOZZOLA:

I also support this

combination of four and 7A, particularly with the

10

alignment of Unit Citation and Landings that Mr.

11

Hudnell described.

12

don't actually know if we need to say the World War II

13

at all.

14

names, there are other things.

15

to, you know, sort of, cover the bases, that may be

16

unnecessary.

17

if it's for the liaisons or the artists, but the knife

18

in 7A has a small bevel on it that none of the other

19

designs have.

20

word.

21

(inaudible)

22

Very small and two things.

One, I

And if -- there are dates, there are place
And if we're trying

And then a small question.

I don't know

I don't know if bevel is the right

Total triangle at the top, right by the
Is there a reason for that?
MR. HUDNELL:

I'm not sure I heard your

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question.

2

DR. CAPOZZOLA:

So if you look at the

3

Fairbairn knife in 7A and see sort of the knife edge.

4

This drawing has that -- see that triangular bevel

5

right by where the hand goes?

6

that appears on this drawing of the knife and on one

7

of the other ones in the portfolio.

8
9
10

MR. HUDNELL:

And

I think the knife in 7A

is an accurate depiction, but I can check to make
sure, but I'm pretty sure that is correct.

11

DR. CAPOZZOLA:

12

DR. BROWN:

13

Wait a minute.

Thanks.

Thank you so much.

Mint

staff have anything you want to add to that?

14

MR. COSTELLO:

15

DR. BROWN:

I have no additional.

Okay.

Are there any

16

further additional comments or motions from the

17

members at this time?

18

DR. VAN ALFEN:

This is Peter Van

19

Alfen.

I've got a question for our liaisons again.

20

noticed that in a couple of the obverses, the colonel

21

leading the charge is carrying a Thompson submachine

22

gun and in others he's carrying an M1 Garand.

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there a preference that officers would have either way

2

or is this Thompson's submachine gun in O-04 accurate

3

in that regard?

4

MR. HUDNELL:

During World War II, a

5

lot of the Special Operations type troops, the leader

6

of a platoon or the leader of the company or the

7

battalion commander would often carry the Thompson

8

submachine gun.

9

is supposed to be Colonel Darby, who was the founder

I don't know that the colonel -- this

10

of the First Ranger Battalion in June 1942.

11

say that he actually carried a Thompson submachine

12

gun, but the officers -- some of the officers would

13

have.

14

the Thompson.

15

I can't

So that wasn't intentional to have him carrying

DR. VAN ALFEN:

Okay.

One -- just one

16

point of detail.

17

understanding the Thompson had a special ammo belt and

18

this ammo belt doesn't quite look accurate for the

19

Thompson cartridge -- or clips.

20

correct, do you know, or is that --

21
22

The ammo belt on the colonel.

MR. HUDNELL:
see.

My

Is the ammo belt

I would have to check and

I'm not sure about that.

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DR. VAN ALFEN:

Okay.

All right.

2

DR. BROWN:

Kellen?

3

MR. HOARD:

So this is Kellen Hoard.

I

4

just had a quick technical question.

5

brought this up of including Act of Congress somewhere

6

like we did for 7A.

7

would there be space on the reverse to replace the

8

World War II on 7A with Act of Congress?

9

if that's even possible.

10
11

I think Arthur

I was wondering, for the design,

MR. HUDNELL:

I don't know

I would rather see it on

the obverse.

12

MR. HOARD:

13

MR. HUDNELL:

The word Act of -There's Act of Congress

14

2022, just below the top of the medal there on the

15

obverse.

Underneath, where you have Salerno.

16

MR. HOARD:

Yeah.

I was wondering --

17

on the design side, would it be possible on the

18

reverse even?

19
20
21
22

MR. MENNA:

I'm sorry, I was speaking

to myself saying there's plenty of space.
MR. HOARD:

No.

On this reverse, would

there be room to replace World War II with Act of

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Congress, theoretically?

2

MR. MENNA:

I think for it to read

3

linearly through the dagger would be challenging.

4

World War II, that's much more common kind of thing.

5

And the dates also being split.

6

obverse, up in the sky, upper left quadrant of the

7

medal, if Act of Congress were to be placed there, I

8

think it would work just fine.

9

coins.

These are metals.

I think, on the

These are polished

There's plenty of space for

10

Act of Congress to be included in a way for all the

11

stakeholders that will not diminish the integrity of

12

the design.

13

MR. HOARD:

Okay.

14

DR. BROWN:

Dennis?

15

MR. TUCKER:

Thank you.

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

I

16

have a question for our liaisons about R-02.

17

understand this was not necessarily one of your

18

preferences, but I'm curious if you had any discussion

19

when you were reviewing this portfolio.

20

with other liaisons for other Congressional Gold

21

Medals about the use of silhouette, and I won't

22

summarize their thoughts or feelings on that because I

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don't want to color your commentary.

2

any discussion pro or con or was that an issue at all?

3

MR. HUDNELL:

But was there

I don't think there was

4

any discussion pro or con about the silhouettes.

5

think the committee was more concerned about the

6

elements that they wanted to see on the medal.

7

had World War II Rangers.

8

with the listing of the seven battalions, and it had

9

the 29th Rangers on there.

10

I

So it

It had the Ranger Scroll

Again, it was not our

first choice.

11

MR. TUCKER:

12

MR. SPENCER:

Thank you.
I agree.

We didn't --

13

the issue of silhouettes did not come up in our

14

discussions.

15

particular rendition here and it looked more like it

16

was a disorganized group of folks and it didn't pass

17

the muster.

18

The first time I saw it was this

MR. TUCKER:

Okay.

thank you for that

19

commentary.

That was just more out of my own

20

curiosity because we have talked about that with other

21

groups, and I wanted to see if there was any kind of

22

consensus for you.

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2

DR. BROWN:

Passing a muster is a real

recognized military term, so I appreciate that.

3

MR. BERNSTEIN:

Art?

This is Arthur

4

Bernstein.

Mr. Chairman, in effort to facilitate the

5

conversation, would you entertain a motion?

6

DR. BROWN:

Always.

7

MR. BERNSTEIN:

Then I would move that

8

our committee recommend O-04, R-7A.

Included in that

9

recommendation would be flipping the geographic

10

locations, as was discussed and a request that the

11

designers consider separating World War -- on the

12

obverse, separating World War II from the rest of the

13

phrase and also consider adding Act of Congress.

14

DR. VAN ALFEN:

15

DR. BROWN:

16

a second.

17

I would second that.

So I have a motion.

I have

Now we have a discussion about the motion.
MR. MORAN:

Just a friendly amendment

18

that the ammo belts on the colonel be checked for

19

accuracy.

20

MR. BERNSTEIN:

21

MR. MORAN:

22

Gladly accept it.

Another friendly amendment

eliminate World War II on the reverse of 7A.

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2

MR. BERNSTEIN:
further discussion.

3
4

MR. MORAN:

I just don't know how

people feel about it.

5

DR. BROWN:

6

MR. BERNSTEIN:

7

you.

8

friendly amendment.

You got it on both sides.

This is Art Bernstein.

9
10

I think that requires

Yes.

I misunderstood

I gratefully accept your

DR. BROWN:

Okay.

Any other friendly

MR. HOARD:

Also, in addition to

amendments?

11
12

flipping the inscriptions, actually replacing Salerno

13

with the -- I forget what was the other location they

14

wanted?

15

MR. BERNSTEIN:

16

MR. HOARD:

17

MS. STAFFORD:

22

Depending on space.

They prefer pass but --

20
21

But maybe without Pass,

depending on space, however --

18
19

Chiunzy Pass.

MR. HOARD:

Okay.

But if that's

feasible?
MR. BERNSTEIN:

Also accepted

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friendliest motion possible.

2

DR. CAPOZZOLA:

Friendly amendment --

3

is Chiunzy, is it a site of landing or is the site of

4

unit citation?

5
6

It should go in the right place.
MR. HUNDELL:

It should go on the side

with the citations.

7

DR. CAPOZZOLA:

8

MR. HUNDELL:

9

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.
Please.

So we have a motion, we

10

have friendly amendments, and we have a second.

11

further discussion?

12

I'd like to, I mean, I'd --

13
14

Any

I do have further discussion.

MR. MORAN:

You're digging your own

DR. BROWN:

I understand.

hole.

15

As the

16

chair, from time to time, I have these comments, but I

17

try to, in fact, contain myself, admittedly.

18

ask the question about Act of Congress.

19

have for our liaisons, how crucial was that phrase?

20

Because I raise it because to put that on there is

21

going to take something away from the designs that

22

we've seen.

But I do

I guess I

And I hate to lose that negative space on

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the objects for the sake of that.

2

from our liaisons, the Act of Congress phrase, how in

3

fact, from your conversations, how crucial was that?

4

MR. HUNDELL:

So I'm curious,

That discussion, that

5

element was not selected by the committee as something

6

that they absolutely wanted to see.

7

the committee several times that it's not always on

8

the medal -- Congressional Gold Medals, but most of

9

the time that phrase is on the Congressional Gold

I mentioned to

10

Medals.

11

said was one of their drop-dead requirements.

12
13

But it was not something that the committee

DR. BROWN:

Appreciate it.

Any further

comments?

14

MR. SPENCER:

15

DR. BROWN:

16

MR. SPENCER:

Just -I'm sorry.

Go ahead.

Just let me add that we

17

looked at it -- the Ranger veterans looked at it and

18

we had it on one or two of the other designs and it

19

was uniformly rejected so --

20

DR. BROWN:

Rejected.

21

MR. MORAN:

One more comment.

22

DR. BROWN:

Okay.

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MR. MORAN:

This is Mike Moran.

I

2

think you can do it on the obverse of four if you make

3

it small font.

It doesn't need to be big.

4

DR. BROWN:

5

MR. TUCKER:

Dennis?
Dr. Brown, this is Dennis

6

Tucker.

Just to clarify the motion, are we including

7

in our recommendation that Act of Congress definitely

8

be included or with the discretion of the design

9

staff?

10

DR. BROWN:

I think the friendly

11

amendment that was raised by you was to definitely

12

include it.

13

MR. HOARD:

14

MR. BERNSTEIN:

15

able to help.

16

used was consider.

That wasn't my amendment.
Dr. Brown, I might be

This is Arthur Bernstein and the word I

17

DR. BROWN:

Consider.

18

MS. STAFFORD:

19

DR. BROWN:

20

MS. STAFFORD:

Fair enough?

Dr. Brown?

Yes.
If you're leaving it to

21

the Mint to consider, given the strength of what our

22

liaisons have said, especially talking with

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representatives of the veterans themselves, not

2

finding favor with including Act of Congress, that I

3

can say that the team here would move forward not

4

including it.

5

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

We have a

6

motion.

We have a second with friendly amendments.

7

Any further conversation or comments about the motion?

8
9

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:

With this

friendly (inaudible)

10

DR. BROWN:

11

favor of saying, aye.

12

GROUP:

13

DR. BROWN:

All those in

Opposed, nay?

Any

Aye.

14

abstentions?

15

motion passes unanimously.

16

Hearing none.

Hearing none.

It seems to me that the

So we really want to thank the liaisons

17

for your patience, particularly you, Mr. Hudnell,

18

because you told me you've been here from the

19

beginning of the last session.

20

for your contributions that you passed, your

21

contributions today.

22

of the day.

We want to thank you

We wish you a pleasant remainder

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MS. WARREN:

2

MR. HUDNELL:

3

MR. SPENCER:
Appreciate it.

6
7

We

Thank you very much.

Thank you.
MS. WARREN:

Dr. Brown, let's ask April

if she still wants the score of these designs.

8
9

Thank you very much.

appreciate your regard.

4
5

Dr. Brown?

MS. STAFFORD:
that.

No, we don't require

But I apologize, I just want to make sure.

As

10

part of the motion, did it -- was there a definitive

11

decision about World War II or was that not part of

12

it?

13

DR. BROWN:

It was.

14

MS. STAFFORD:

Okay.

15

repeat that part?

16

writing this down correctly --

I just want to make sure I'm

17

MR. WEINMAN:

18

MS. STAFFORD:

19
20
21
22

correct?

Okay.

Can you just

This removal --- on the reverse,

Thank you.
MR. HOARD:

April, do you want us to

mark artistic merits?
MS. STAFFORD:

It's not necessary.

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MR. HOARD:

Okay.

2

MS. STAFFORD:

3

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

I think based on that, then

4

we've covered the programs for this morning.

5

we're going to have a brief lunch.

6

MS. WARREN:

Now

I would -- this is

7

Jennifer Warren.

8

the lunch until 1:00 because we still moved up an hour

9

and I believe the liaison from Michigan can do it at

10

1:00.

11
12

I would suggest we stick to keeping

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
it for sure.

13

I haven't heard

Sorry.
MS. WARREN:

Okay.

We'll aim for 1:00

14

until we hear otherwise.

15

11:45 right now.

16

and coming -- at least starting -- come back at 1:00

17

and then we'll see where we are.

18
19

We'll, at least -- it is

So I would suggest going to recess

DR. BROWN:

Sounds reasonable.

Coming back at 1:00.

20

(Off the record.)

21

DR. BROWN:

22

Recess.

back.

Good afternoon.

We're

I want to take a quick roll call to confirm

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that we have a quorum.

2

when I call your name.

Please acknowledge present

3

Arthur Bernstein?

4

MR. BERNSTEIN:

5

DR. BROWN:

6

DR. VAN ALFEN:

7

DR. BROWN:

8

MR. SCARINCI:

9

DR. BROWN:

Michael Moran?

10

MR. MORAN:

Present.

11

DR. BROWN:

Harcourt Fuller?

12

DR. FULLER:

13

MR. HOARD:

Kellen Hoard?

14

MR. HOARD:

Present.

15

DR. BROWN:

Christopher Capozzola?

16

DR. CAPOZZOLA:

17

DR. BROWN:

18

MR. TUCKER:

19

DR. BROWN:

20

MR. SAUNDERS:

21

DR. BROWN:

22

We do have a quorum.

Present.

Peter Van Alfen?
Present.

Donald Scarinci?
Present.

Present.

Present.

Dennis Tucker?
Present.
John Saunders?
Present.

And I am Lawrence Brown.

We will now move to the next

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portfolio for consideration today.

2

candidate designs for the 2025 American Innovation $1

3

coin honoring innovation in Michigan.

4

chief of the Mint's Office of Design Management will

5

introduce the program and present the reverse

6

candidate designs.

7

MS. STAFFORD:

The reverse

April Stafford,

Thank you.

And

8

previously I gave background information on this

9

program.

So we'll go straight into information about

10

Michigan's concept.

There is a single concept, and

11

that is the automobile assembly line.

12

assembly line changed the way automobiles are made.

13

The assembly line concept was originally patented by

14

Ransom Olds and was used to build the first mass

15

produced automobile, the Oldsmobile Curved Dash in

16

1901.

17

introduced the assembly line after visiting a

18

slaughterhouse in Chicago.

19

referred to as the disassembly line, a system where

20

carcasses were butchered as they moved along a

21

conveyor.

22

same piece over and over without moving himself caught

The moving

At the Ford Motor Company, William Klann

There he observed what was

The efficiency of one person removing the

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Klann's attention.

At Ford, the process was an

2

evolution by trial and error.

3

line was developed for the Ford Model T and began

4

operation on October 7th, 1913, at the Highland Park

5

Ford Plant.

6

time and motion studies.

7

conveyor belts, reduced production time for a Model T

8

from over 12 hours to just 93 minutes by dividing the

9

process into 45 steps.

The moving assembly

It continued to evolve after that using
The assembly line, driven by

With the reduction of time

10

came a reduction in injuries to workers and the

11

financial cost of production.

12

reduced the price of automobiles, increased pay for

13

workers, and played an integral part in America's

14

adoption of the automobile in everyday life.

15

This cost savings

Required inscriptions for this coin are

16

United States of America and Michigan.

17

pleased to have with us today our liaison to Michigan,

18

Judge Steven Bieda.

19

few words before our committee reviews the candidate

20

designs?

21
22

Judge, would you like to say a

MR. BIEDA:
Steve Bieda.

We are so

Thank you.

My name is

I'm from Michigan, and I have a

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numismatic backup in addition to (inaudible) I'm a

2

life member of the ANA, and I'm also a designer of the

3

Olympic coins in 1992 and had design experience

4

working on Michigan quarter dollars in 2004.

5

had an opportunity to review designs that have been

6

fitted specifically in the assembly line.

7

some things in there, and I don't know if it's

8

appropriate to share those with you or the committee

9

would like to (inaudible) those first.

We've

And we have

But if our

10

preferences and sort of in the order are M1-06,

11

followed by M1-05, and then third choice is M1-02.

12

One of the things that we liked about M1-06 is the

13

fact that it shows a lot of the vitality of the

14

movement of the assembly line as well as it also shows

15

several workers on the assembly line, which is an

16

important part of the assembly line process, as well

17

as it's influenced in the creation of the American

18

middle class.

19

Henry Ford -- $5 promised the workers which was one of

20

the things that he seen Michigan (inaudible) of the

21

middle class.

22

there's also some technical -- small technical changes

Many of you might be familiar with

(inaudible)

we suggest (inaudible)

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to the 06 spokes and the wheels on there, which is a

2

pretty (inaudible) product as well.

3

there's any questions on that.

4

format goes on this, but it's an honor to be here and

5

an opportunity to appear before the Citizen Advisory

6

Commission in the past of some other points programs.

7

And it's great to see everybody.

8
9

MS. STAFFORD:
really appreciate that.

I don't know if

I'm not sure how the

(inaudible)

Thank you so much.

We

And yes, the committee will

10

definitely come back to you with questions as they

11

have them.

12

now.

13

liaison noted, this is their tertiary preference.

14

It's also the recommendation by the CFA, although the

15

CFA did suggest again, it's the liaison's suggestion

16

that if possible, a worker could be added into the

17

background.

18

liaison's secondary preference.

19

is our liaison's first preference.

20

is a request by the liaison to -- not necessarily for

21

this design, but for anyone that moves forward, that

22

more than one person be depicted.

And we will go to the candidate designs

Starting with design one, design two, as our

Design three, four, five.

This is our

And six -- design six
And again, there

Thank you.

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DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

To the

2

committee, are there any technical or legal questions

3

that you have about this program?

4

us begin our consideration.

5

MR. SCARINCI:

Seeing none.

Let

Let's start with Donald?
I think this is one of

6

those designs I would love to just make a motion and

7

do it.

8

here.

9

everything we need to do to illustrate the assembly

I think design number three is a no brainer
I think it fits within the series.

It does

10

line process.

I think it's; you know, I think it's --

11

I love the geometric forms.

12

live with the little, tiny people that are going to

13

look like the quarter in your -- it's going to look

14

like the little guy in the quarter on your display

15

board in front of you, where you can't really see

16

unless you take a loop to it that that's a person who

17

looks like a bug.

18

symmetry -- what works here is the symmetry of those

19

little figures along with the lines.

20

- it presents a dynamic and as far as I know, accurate

21

image of assembly line -- of assembly lines.

22

know, I really, you know, I appreciate the liaison's

And, you know, I could

So but in this context, I think the

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I, you

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preference for number six, but, you know, those cars

2

look like they came from one of the original assembly

3

lines.

4

figures in there.

5

a bug and, you know, on the quarter planchette.

6

think this is an opportunity, especially since we went

7

with a portrait on one of the other coins in the

8

series.

9

go back to, you know, what makes this particular

And, you know, again, you know, there's three
Two of them are going to look like
So I

You know, I think this is an opportunity to

10

series, you know, very cool and go with the geometric

11

design.

12
13

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

Let's

turn to Peter?

14

DR. VAN ALFEN:

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

15

Peter Van Alfen.

I do like the symmetry of number

16

three.

17

however, if it is an accurate representation of a

18

1960s assembly line, which is what it seems to be.

19

have a strong preference for number two.

20

this is a very strong design.

21

another figure to it, actually, in my preference,

22

would not add greatly to the design.

I agree with Donald there.

I'm not sure,

I think that

And I think adding

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quite strong as it is right now.

2

think the overall portfolio is really quite nice and

3

attractive.

4

out just for the strength of design.

5

at that.

DR. BROWN:

So I'll leave it

Thank you so much.

Let's

turn to John?

8
9

But I think number two really does stand

Thank you.

6
7

And the others, I

MR. SAUNDERS:
number one.

My first preference was

I like several designs that are similar.

10

Number one was a little bit simpler, easier to

11

understand.

12

well as number one, but very similar.

13

didn't like.

14

the Model T, and this is, you know, 30, 40 years

15

later.

16

understand, as Donald saying, the symmetry of it's

17

kind of nice, but it was not one of my first choice --

18

choices.

19

This would be more appropriate if we were doing

20

Dayton, Ohio convention of the tire or something like

21

that.

22

expresses the assembly line.

I like number two as well.

Not quite as
Number three, I

Number one, the innovation happened with

It seems a little bit busy for me.

I

Number four, I didn't particularly like.

It's not a bad design.

I don't think it
Number five was kind of

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okay, but I like other ones that did the same thing

2

better.

3

number one.

4

little busier than number one.

5

of one better.

6

on these.

7

an early car, I presume that's a Model T, but is it a

8

Model T first off?

9

accuracy of what a Model T looked like?

10

And number six was my second choice behind
I think it does a good job, too.

It's a

I like the simplicity

But I also have a technical question

A number of the cars or the designs feature

And has somebody checked it for
So those are

my preferences and my questions?

11

DR. BROWN:

Joe?

12

MR. MENNA:

John, this is Joe Menna.

13

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

14

committee, as with other coins and medals where we've

15

depicted vehicles from specific eras or various eras

16

on one coin rather, we try and capture the zeitgeist

17

and the feel of the cars or planes or whatever they

18

may be.

19

accurate to any specific model for reasons that Greg

20

Weinman can explain.

21
22

John and the rest of the

We cannot depict specific vehicles, details

MR. WEINMAN:
two.

Fundamentally, there are

Number one, the government tries not to endorse

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when there's not a specific charge to do so.

2

this isn't about Ford, isn't about GM, it isn't about

3

Oldsmobile.

4

to endorse one organization over another.

5

second one is there are actually sometimes

6

intellectual property considerations when it comes to

7

the design of certain very identifiable vehicles, for

8

example.

9

that is more generic.

So we're not trying to -- we don't want
And the

For that reason, we try to find something

10

MR. SAUNDERS:

11

DR. BROWN:

12

And so

Interesting points.

Thank you so much.

Mr.

(inaudible) Kellen?

13

MR. HOARD:

Thank you.

This is Kellen

14

Hoard.

I also liked -- well, what I did is, before

15

this meeting, I went and talked to some of my student

16

peers about the idea of the assembly line innovation

17

just to kind of bounce off what they thought of it.

18

The thing that kept coming up time and again for them

19

was that it wasn't just the actual automation, but

20

also, like our liaison said, about the people.

21

that's kind of what they thought of, was the people

22

who were involved in that, particularly in light of

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recent news out of the UAW.

So I was really drawn

2

quite a bit to six, both on my own and as a

3

consequence of people that I spoke to really valuing

4

the people and being intrigued by the people in

5

addition to the machinery.

6

dynamic motion happening.

7

the assembly occurring quite well.

8

was very fluid.

9

then they're in the midst of doing something.

I thought it shows kind of
I thought it shows actually
And I thought it

It feels like it's happening, and
I, like

10

Donald, was also somewhat drawn to three.

I'm not

11

sure I'd rank it the highest, but I thought it was a

12

really quite interesting design.

13

concerned about the exact date of the cars in there

14

because to me, this is a continuing innovation.

15

not something that only happened for the older cars.

16

It is something that continues to be not only built

17

upon but continues to work as an innovation through

18

the 60s, 70s, into today.

19

the exact date of the cars because this is an

20

innovation that has lasted long beyond its original

21

kind of limited purpose there.

22

the two big ones for me.

And I'm less

It's

So I'm less worried about

And those are kind of

I would probably not rank

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two very highly.

2

to be, in contrast, number six, a very static image

3

where there's not much assembly occurring, and the man

4

almost looks kind of posed for a photo rather than

5

actually engaged in his work.

6

I wasn't quite as drawn to it.

7

Thank you.

8
9

As I've spoken about earlier, I find

DR. BROWN:

And so for that reason,
That's it for me.

Thank you so much.

Dr.

Fuller?

10

DR. FULLER:

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

11

This is a really -- I'm sorry.

This is Dr. Harcourt

12

Fuller.

13

think that most of the designs have great merit, and I

14

think that they portray very well, you know, the idea

15

of the assembly line.

16

If we could go to three, please -- 03.

17

about 03 is that when we think about the assembly

18

line, we -- I certainly haven't seen a design like

19

this that gives you essentially a bird's eye view of

20

what the assembly line looks like.

21

that show the assembly of the cars, right, they are

22

more detailed, right, and you get a close-up view of

This is a really wonderful portfolio.

I

But let me agree with Donald.
What I like

The other ones

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the assembly of the cars.

But, you know, to me,

2

especially when April was discussing how the idea of

3

the assembly line came about, you know, by, you know,

4

looking at meat, you know, slaughterhouses, right?

5

think this is true to that, you know.

6

you that bird's eye view where you're seeing the

7

process and you're also seeing the people.

8

will give this high marks.

9

04, if I may.

I

It really gives

And so I

But I also like four --

And I know that this design is not

10

necessarily about the tire, right, but of course, the

11

tire is an integral part of the automotive mobile,

12

right?

13

coin, you know.

14

three dimensional.

15

so that's one that I like.

16

think this is a great portfolio.

17

liaison's preference.

18

four are my top preferences.

19
20
21
22

This is just a wonderful design to see on a
It just almost looks like -- it looks
It just really speaks to me.

And

But again, overall, I
I also like six, the

But again, I think three and

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Let's

turn now to Dennis?
MR. TUCKER:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to start by greeting our liaison.

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you're never very far from American Coinage, and we

2

appreciate the work that you've done with the

3

stakeholder's program.

4

ANA, so it's very nice to know that you've been

5

involved with this program that we're working on

6

today.

7

actually reminded me of the Virginia Chesapeake Bay

8

Bridge Tunnel design.

9

work of draftsmanship.

You're a valued member of the

My eye was drawn to R-03 as well, Donald.

It

I think it's remarkable as a
I'm not quite as convinced

10

that it would work well as a coin just because it is

11

such a small canvas.

12

combination of humanity and mechanized assembly that

13

we've talked about.

14

you.

And I like R-06 because of that

So R-06 has my support.

15

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

16

MR. BERNSTEIN:

Thank

Art?

This is Arthur

17

Bernstein.

I was attracted to design six that was the

18

preference of the liaison.

19

design three, to me it just shouts assembly line.

20

mean, you can't look at that whole confusion of stuff

21

going on and not think about what it's trying to

22

represent, an assembly line.

But the more I looked at

So I'm going to cast

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significant points for design three.

2

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

Mike?

3

MR. MORAN:

This is Mike Moran.

I went

4

through them and ranked them as to what they conveyed

5

to me in a message.

6

better.

7

both of motion and of process and was the most

8

effective in conveying to me the sense of the original

9

concept of the assembly line.

10

Two was a little

But again, six, I thought, gave me a sense

So that's where I'm

going to go, six.

11
12

One was okay.

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

Turn

out to Chris?

13

DR. CAPOZZOLA:

All right.

Chris

14

Capozzola.

I'll be brief and just say that if we

15

acknowledge the input of the liaisons, I would pick

16

six over the others for the reasons of motion that

17

people addressed before.

18

the only person to speak up for three, but three

19

stopped me dead in my tracks when I saw it.

20

it was really fantastic.

21

century feel of it.

22

including the small scale of the human beings.

I thought I was going to be

I thought

I liked the sort of mid-

I liked the scale of it,

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like to, in part, hear from the liaisons about any

2

discussions they had about three if you would.

3
4

DR. BROWN:

Mr. Bieda, do you want to

respond to that?

5

MS. WARREN:

You're muted, sir.

6

MR. BIEDA:

Can you hear me?

7

DR. BROWN:

Yes.

8

MS. WARREN:

9

MR. BIEDA:

Yes.
Actually, a lot of good

10

suggestions on here.

As I said earlier, this is a

11

beautiful portfolio.

All of these designs have some

12

very strong elements.

13

looking at some of the designs, I also because it does

14

activity and it shows a line from a perspective.

15

concern that when you edit broke down to the size

16

point, it's almost like not recognizable, which is the

17

issue that I think that kind of reminded me of an

18

electronic keyboard or something when I'm looking at

19

it and shrunk the actual size of a coin.

20

a traditional silver dollar size.

21

a much more powerful design.

22

looked at it when we shrunk it down that the workers

I think when we're kind of

The

If this was

I think it might be

We're concerned that we

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are almost indistinguishable and as the design in

2

itself.

3

think it's going to work really well in that small

4

size. (inaudible)

5

for it does remind me of something that the Fine Arts

6

Commission mentioned about.

7

that's right near the airport that people pass all the

8

time but it's a beautiful design, great logo and if we

9

were talking tires or something it would be even

So while it's a beautiful design, I don't

Again, like the tire design, except

We have a (inaudible)

10

better.

But it just doesn't show what I'm looking for

11

in assembly line distinction.

12

six.

13

you for your service on this Citizens Coin Advisory

14

Commission.

15

work that you've done and I appreciate -- it's

16

difficult (inaudible) that you have to make.

17

know, there's a couple of designs that you could use

18

small kink if they were kind of curious, but nobody

19

seemed to focus on number five design which is also a

20

pretty good design to start to show the progress on

21

the line and it's a very powerful design as well.

22

car and the line is shown.

So I kind of go with

I respect all of your opinions, want to thank

I've been watching this for years and the

You

You know, again, we're

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kind of caught in time with several of the top three

2

designs that invest in their earlier days.

3

think one of the difficulties, something from six

4

weeks is sort of subjective of a timeline where the

5

assembly line (inaudible) were looking at it from its

6

earliest days.

7

But I think the real reason that I go back to six is

8

it's the only design that really shows a sense of

9

workers you've got (inaudible) being lifting up the

I don't

We kind of looked at that on this.

10

car, you've got the line showing, you got several

11

workers in there.

12

show that interchange and that interaction between

13

the, you know, the line element of that, which, if you

14

look at (inaudible)

15

figures and everything a little easier to look like

16

the other ones.

17

And it's one part where you really

maybe, the reason down to that

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

I must

18

confess that hearing comments from our colleagues I

19

lean towards the design that's favored by our liaison

20

for a couple of reasons.

21

of a phrase that one of our former members mentioned

22

about the tabletop test.

One, it sort of reminds me

If I think about having a

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coin on the tabletop and someone had asked me what

2

does that mean?

3

seem to me that the elements would be large enough to,

4

in fact, have a conversation.

5

lean in this direction is that from what the comments

6

and my colleagues have said about the involvement of

7

people.

8

that -- for that reason as attractive as design three

9

is on the planchette that we're going to see this,

What does that design mean?

It would

The other reason that I

Involvement of people is really critical.

So

10

it's going to be so difficult to see them that you're

11

going to need a loop.

12

members of the public comments about the size of some

13

of our elements that they need a loop to be able to

14

discern them.

15

the direction of six as well.

16

John, do you have a question, comment?

17

And we've already had some

So for that reason, I was leaning in

MR. SAUNDERS:

I see your hand up.

No, I had a comment.

I

18

want to second something Steven said earlier.

19

the assembly line is what we're celebrating here, but

20

the offshoot of the assembly line was the decision of

21

certain car makers to make sure that their workers

22

made enough money to buy one of their cars.

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I mean,

And I

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think that's part of the innovation that we're

2

celebrating here.

3

feeling that we have to show workers as well as the

4

assembly line happening.

5

And so I think it just redoubles my

DR. BROWN:

Are there any additional

6

comments or motions from members at this time?

7

and Joe, did you have additional comments you'd like

8

to add?

9

MR. COSTELLO:

10

DR. BROWN:

Mike

I have none.

Thank you.

Hearing none.

11

The committee will now score the reverse candidate

12

designs for the 2025 --

13

DR. FULLER:

14

DR. BROWN:

15

DR. FULLER:

Mr. Chairman?
I'm sorry?

Harcourt?

This is Dr. Fuller.

16

Please forgive me.

17

size of the size issue in number three?

18

words, will it be discernible?

19

people be discernible on a quarter?

20

dollar.

21
22

Can I ask Joe to opine about the

MR. MENNA:

In other

Will the cars and the
I'm sorry --

Yeah, this is Joe Menna.

Dr. Harcourt, you're talking about the one with just

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modern cars, mid-century cars -- three to seven --

2

three rows.

3

artist's particular vision, but I don't want to sound

4

like I didn't do my job, but I don't think it would

5

read as well, let's say as number six.

6

like that.

I believe, while the artist -- that's the

Like not even close.

7

DR. FULLER:

8

DR. BROWN:

9

Let's put it

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

And we will now score the

reverse candidate designs for the 2025 American

10

Innovation $1 coin honoring innovation in Michigan.

11

Please provide your completed sheets to Greg, who will

12

then tally the scores and report the results.

13

take five minutes recess in order to get this

14

accomplished.

We are recessed for five minutes.

15

(Off the record.)

16

DR. BROWN:

17

We can

We are back.

I recognize

Greg Weinman.

18

MR. WEINMAN:

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

19

Once again, with 10 members voting, that means the

20

score is out of a possible 30 points.

21

one received eight points.

22

12 points.

M1 -- Michigan

Design number two received

Design number three received 15 points.

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Design four received three points.

2

received seven points and design six received 21

3

points, making it the high vote getter.

4
5

DR. BROWN:

MR. HOARD:

I would move that we adopt

DR. BROWN:

Is there a second on that

design six.

8
9

Thank you so much Greg.

Are there any motions at this point?

6
7

Design five

motion?

10

DR. VAN ALFEN:

Peter Van Alfen,

11

second.

I would add a friendly amendment that the

12

spokes in the cars be modified to reflect accuracy.

13

MR. HOARD:

That's friendly.

14

DR. BROWN:

Any further conversation

15

regarding the motion on the table?

16

those in favor signify by saying, aye.

17

GROUP:

18

DR. BROWN:

Hearing none.

All

Aye.
All those opposed?

19

abstentions?

20

unanimous.

21

then all discussion on this program has been

22

concluded.

Any

By my hearing, that sounds to me to be
Are there any further motions?

If not,

We'd like to really thank you, Judge

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Bieda, for attending and giving us your insight.

2

not often that we hear from a fellow collector, so we

3

really appreciate your input that you've provided.

4

MS. WARREN:

5

MR. BIEDA:

It's

You're muted, sir.
Thank you.

Kind words, Dennis.

It's been an

6

honor (inaudible)

7

your out there career. (inaudible)

8

you and (inaudible)

9

that you've done and frankly the artists and the folks
at the Mint have been wonderful.

11

(inaudible)

13

Fun job.

I envy

really appreciate all the work

10

12

I appreciate

DR. BROWN:

So with that,

Thank you so much, sir.

Have a good remainder of the day.

14

MR. BIEDA:

Thank you.

You as well.

15

DR. BROWN:

We will now move to the

16

last portfolio for the day, which is a review of the

17

reverse candidate designs for the 2025 Native American

18

$1 coin.

19

Mint's Office of Design Management, will introduce the

20

program and present the reverse candidate designs.

21
22

Once again, April Stafford, Chief of the

MS. STAFFORD:

Thank you so much.

First, some background on this program.

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Every year

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since 2009, the United States Mints and issues a

2

golden-hued dollar coin that celebrates the important

3

contributions made by Indigenous Americans, who

4

include American Indians, Alaskan Natives and Native

5

Hawaiians.

6

depiction of Sacagawea and her infant son first used

7

in 2000.

8

Pukui, the first Native Hawaiian to be honored this

9

Public Law.

The obverse of the coins retain the

In 2025, the reverse will honor Mary Kawena

In our work collecting recommendations

10

for themes, multiple congressional stakeholders

11

advocated for a theme celebrating and recognizing

12

Native Hawaiians.

13

among a list of prominent Hawaiian women, including

14

Edith Kenao Kanaka'ole, who were proposed for

15

inclusion in the American Women Quarters program.

16

Mary Kawena Pukui was a prominent Native Hawaiian

17

scholar, author, composer, and dancer whose

18

translations, compositions and ethnographic work have

19

sustained the Hawaiian language and culture for

20

generations.

21

rapidly being lost, Pukui worked to document the

22

stories and lifeways of the Hawaiian elders and

Mary Kawena Pukui was specifically

At a time when Hawaiian knowledge was

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translated countless Hawaiian language primary source

2

materials through her career at the Bishop Museum in

3

Honolulu.

4

produced over 52 published titles, 150 songs and

5

chants, and countless other authoritative written

6

works that shared aspects of the Hawaiian language and

7

culture to the broader public.

8

the most comprehensive Hawaiian dictionaries to date,

9

as well as a collection of 2,941 Hawaiian proverbs

As a result of her undertakings, Pukui

She coauthored one of

10

sayings -- and sayings that continues to be a popular

11

text in Hawaii.

12

and in keeping with Hawaiian custom, she was raised by

13

her grandmother, who spoke to her only in Hawaiian and

14

taught her the traditions, rituals, and religion,

15

including the art of hula that she learned from her

16

elders.

17

classes were taught only in English.

18

speaking in Hawaiian was not permitted, she persisted

19

in keeping her language alive through sharing Hawaiian

20

lore and wisdom in her Native Hawaiian language with

21

her classmates.

22

the Bishop Museum, collaborating with scholars in an

Pukui was born on April 20th, 1895,

Pukui attended a Hawaiian seminary where
Although

Beginning in 1937, Pukui worked for

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array of disciplines, resulting in notable

2

publications.

3

interviewed native Hawaiians who were fluent Hawaiian

4

language speakers, capturing their thoughts and wisdom

5

first in notes and later in audio recordings.

6

museum houses an extensive collection of her work,

7

including original music compositions, cultural

8

stories, histories, audio recordings and ethnographic

9

notes.

10

As a skilled translator, she

A little bit about the designs.

The

All of

11

the candidate designs feature a depiction of Mary

12

Kawena Pukui and an inscription of her name, along

13

with the required inscriptions United States of

14

America and $1.

15

translates literally to "Look to the Source."

16

phrase itself is considered very evocative of Pukui's

17

life, work and legacy, as she was someone who was

18

constantly consulted for her expertise on various

19

aspects of Hawaiian knowledge.

20

symbolized in the candidate designs through the fruit,

21

leaves, and nuts of Hawaii's state tree, the Kukui.

22

The Kukui nut lei is an important Hawaiian cultural

The Hawaiian inscription you'll see
This

Hawaiian knowledge is

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element that was worn by Pukui.

We are so pleased to

2

have with us several liaisons.

3

representatives and I'll ask that they introduce

4

themselves.

5

the Smithsonian's National Museum of the American

6

Indian who focuses on native Hawaiian history and

7

culture.

8

introduce yourself and say a few words.

We have several family

And we also have a representative from

So if I could invite first the family to

9

MS. WARREN:

There's one on there.

10

MS. STAFFORD:

11

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:

12

Yes.

He may be

muted at the moment.

13
14

Pele?

MS. WARREN:
member is coming on.

15

Hold on.

Another family

Pele?

MS. STAFFORD:

Perhaps while the family

16

is looking at their settings, perhaps Pele, would you

17

like to say a few words?

18

MS. HARMAN:

19

MS. STAFFORD:

20

MS. HARMAN:

21

on earlier.

22

Aloha.

I'm sorry for this.
Oh, no worries.
I was just trying to get

Aloha (Speaks Hawaiian) from Hawaii.

And Mohalo for having us here.

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this morning to speak briefly about my great

2

grandmother.

Can you hear me?

3

MS. STAFFORD:

4

MS. HARMAN:

Yes.
Okay.

Thank you.
We're very honored

5

to be considered -- our great grandmother to have been

6

considered (inaudible)

7

a coin.

8

this series today because a lot of people back in

9

Hawaii are celebrating L. K.'oko'a when our third one

for this prestigious honor of

And it comes at a very interesting date for

10

went around the world through different papers,

11

agreement signed, declarations of Independence.

12

so it's quite interesting that today is the day of the

13

hearing of my grandmother -- my great grandmother was

14

born under the Hawaiian flag.

15

advocate for all things Hawaiian but was also very

16

proud of her heritage from being American, from her

17

father having resided and been born in Salem,

18

Massachusetts.

19

people to really kind of navigate this time of great

20

change in Hawaii, our homeland.

21

everything that she did was her love of her people and

22

of knowledge and of educating others.

And

She was a staunch

And so she served as a bridge for our

And at the core of

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very, very honored and thank the committee and also

2

all the artists for the hard work that they put into

3

trying to depict what she meant -- not just what she

4

looked like, but what she meant to all Native

5

Hawaiians and also to those of her heritage from her

6

father's side (inaudible) of the world and her Salem,

7

Massachusetts side and so, Mohalo.

8

there's anything that you want me to answer, I can.

9

MS. STAFFORD:

I'm very happy if

Well, certainly after we

10

move through the candidate designs, we will definitely

11

have questions for you, so thank you.

12

much.

13

representative also here, Halena Kapuni-Reynolds.

14

Halena, could I ask you to say a few words?

15

All right.

Thank you very

And I see we have our Smithsonian

MR. KAPUNI-REYNOLDS:

Yes, of course.

16

Aloha kakahiaka.

Good morning from Hawaii.

My name

17

is Halena-Kapuni-Reynolds.

18

of Native Hawaiian History and Culture at the National

19

Museum of the American Indians.

20

so this was one of the first portfolios that I've been

21

working on completely following the launch of the

22

Edith Kenao Kanaka.ole quarter.

I am the Associate Curator

I started in April,

So it's been a

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blessing in many ways to be able to work with the

2

ohana, the family on these coins and hopefully to

3

provide you folks with enough information to make a

4

sound decision regarding the design.

5

mentions, Pukui is a really prominent Hawaiian scholar

6

and author that is quite beloved and well known in the

7

community.

8

to really reintroduce her again to the next generation

9

to ensure that her work lives on and that we're

As the brief

And this quaint is really an opportunity

10

constantly engaging with the legacy that she leaves

11

behind.

12

with you folks today, and I look forward to the design

13

discussion.

So I'll end there and it's great to be here

14

MS. STAFFORD:

Thank you so much.

And

15

again, we'll definitely come back to the family and to

16

Halena with questions as we move through.

17

look at our candidate designs now, and as well as

18

family representatives, our Smithsonian subject matter

19

expert.

20

congressional committees with which we work, and so I

21

will be noting their preferences as we move through

22

the portfolio.

So we'll

As you all know, we have three different

So let's start with design one.

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MR. KAPUNI-REYNOLDS:

Before we

2

continue with the portfolios, I do see that we have

3

two more of Pukui's family members that are ready to

4

introduce themselves.

Dodie?

5

MS. BROWNE:

Hi.

Aloha.

6

MR. KAPUNI-REYNOLDS:

Maybe if you want

7

to, they're going to start talking about the brief.

8

So if you'd like to introduce yourself, and then

9

La'akea, we'll jump back to you, okay?

10

MS. BROWNE:

11

DR. BROWN:

12

MS. BROWNE:

Can you hear me?
Yes.
Okay.

Aloha.

I'm Dodie

13

Brown.

14

this is such a wonderful honor, and I appreciate what

15

you are all doing for her.

16
17

20

Mohalo.

MR. KAPUNI-REYNOLDS:
Dodie.

18
19

I am a granddaughter of Mary Kawena Pukui, and

Thank you,

And La'akea?
MS. WARREN:

You're muted again.

There

you go.
MR. SUGANUMA:

Okay.

Yeah.

Being

21

raised from infancy by my grandmother.

22

hard she worked to preserve her culture and her

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language, and she would shy away from all the

2

accolades and awards and accepting graciously.

3

know in her heart all she wanted to know is that her

4

work made a difference.

5

has, and it continues to every day.

6

very thankful that we were able to recognize her and

7

I'm thankful to my daughter for all the hard work she

8

did while I was absent.

9

But I

And it certainly did, and it
So again, we're

Thank you.

MS. STAFFORD:

Okay.

Thank you so

10

much.

So we will move through the candidate design,

11

starting with design 1.

12

the Congressional Native American Caucus of the House

13

of Representatives as a preference.

14

identified also by the Congressional Native American

15

Caucus of the House of Representatives as a secondary

16

preference.

17

of Mary Kawena Pukui as well as the recommendation by

18

the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts.

19

preference by the National Congress of the American

20

Indians and the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs.

This design was identified by

Design 1A was

Design 1B was a preference of the family

Design 1C was a

21

Moving on, we have Design 2, which was

22

also a preference of the family of Mary Kawena Pukui,

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a secondary preference of the National Congress of the

2

American Indian and the Senate Committee on Indian

3

Affairs.

4

family as well as a secondary preference of the Senate

5

Committee on Indian Affairs.

6

And that concludes the candidate designs.

7

@A, 2B, 3, 4, another preference of the

DR. BROWN:

And finally, design 4A.

Thank you so much.

And we

8

want to really thank the family for joining with us to

9

help us in this very intriguing yet exciting

10

exploration of these designs before us.

11

committee, are there any technical or legal questions

12

that you may have about this program?

13

And we will begin our consideration.

14

none other than, Art.

15

MR. BERNSTEIN:

To the

Hearing none.
We'll begin with

This is Arthur

16

Bernstein and there are a lot of preferences we've

17

heard.

18

family choice of Design 2.

19

granddaughter's comment about appreciating the

20

simplicity and the inclusion of the Bishop Museum,

21

which the honoree was so closely associated.

22

I think the preference I lean towards is the

DR. BROWN:

And I note the

Mike?

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MR. MORAN:

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

This

2

is Mike Moran.

I was initially attracted to the

3

series that starts with image number one and I have

4

some concerns as to how this thing would coin up

5

because there is a lot of background in there as to

6

whether it will distort it or not.

7

something that I've struggled with since I first

8

started studying the portfolio and I have not answered

9

it for myself yet.

And that's

Then I go to one that nobody

10

really mentioned at all, 4A.

11

simplicity.

12

it with satisfactory negative space.

13

out if you go back to 4, the stack of books behind her

14

is looking to the left, does absolutely nothing for

15

the design and just actually clutters.

16

probably the one in the portfolio that I struggled

17

with the most because usually something comes right

18

out, hits me, and I go for it.

It captures the essence of her and does

19
20
21
22

And I like 4A for its

DR. BROWN:

I would point

This one was

This one, not really.

Thank you so much.

Turn

now to Donald>
MR. SCARINCI:

I really liked 1, and

I'm kind of listening to what Mike is saying about 4A.

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I can see what Mike likes about 4A.

You know, I like

2

the way her shirt drapes over the circle.

3

former member would have said that if she were still

4

here today, our sculptor member, so I like that.

5

I also, you know, and I also have to say, I kind of

6

like the fact that she's writing on a wall.

7

designs, you know, but I'm really intrigued by 1 and

8

1A as between the two of them, you know, 1 is -- 1

9

really, really, I think would make a very interesting

I think our

And

The other

10

coin design for this series.

Whereas 4A would be more

11

same ole, same ole, you know, done.

12

I mean, a good design --

13

not a bad design.

14

preference is to be a little more bold with the

15

design.

16

number 1 is my trifling.

17

you know, I just, I wouldn't do 1C.

18

with the house.

19

know.

20

plant in the background.

21

any of the others as being possibilities.

22

it's really between 1 and 4.

Not a bad design.

it's a good design.

It's a good design, right?

It's
But my

And, you know, I think as between the two,
The others in the portfolio,
I wouldn't do 2

I think it's just too much stuff, you

The same thing with the, you know, with the
You know, I just don't see
I think

That's my pick.

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2

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

Let's

turn now to Peter?

3

DR. VAN ALFEN:

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

4

It's Peter Van Alfen.

5

as well.

6

shares a lot of similarities.

7

question for the family why it is that they would have

8

preference for 1B over, say, number 1?

9

could address that.

10
11

I'm very attracted to 1 and 1A

This whole group of number 1, obviously,
And I do have a

If one of you

I'm just curious to know why it

is that you find this more compelling.
MS. HARMAN:

So I can address that.

12

Again, so this has been a steep learning curve for us

13

so -- initially, I think when we were presented with

14

the first set of designs, we were not aware -- there

15

were certain elements from each of the designs that we

16

liked, but I didn't quite understand that each one was

17

done by a different artist.

18

to mix and match.

19

first -- the number 1 submissions were that this is

20

the one that looks most like my great grandmother.

21

And so her likeness was very much captured the way

22

that she would have worn her hair with the hibiscus

And so it's not possible

What we loved about all the -- the

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flower, with her family.

Her property in Oahu is

2

known for tourists but would have gone by her property

3

on Birch Street to look at her beautiful hibiscus

4

flowers that she was very proud of.

5

all of those elements.

6

so, I think this was an attempt to kind of change and

7

then have the United States of America underneath and

8

just appear but that was before we understood what the

9

process was about the artistry that went into each of

And so we liked

And then, what we -- yeah, and

10

the submissions and that they were done.

11

suggestion was kind of trying to do (inaudible) kind

12

of thing with different elements of different designs,

13

and so it would still be -- a preference, would be 1A,

14

1B.

Yes.

That's all.

15
16

So our

DR. VAN ALFEN:

Thank you.

All right.

Thank you very much.

17

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

18

MR. SAUNDERS:

John?

This is John Saunders.

19

Dr. Brown, thank you.

I like the 1 series, but I

20

think it looks better on paper than it would in a

21

coin.

22

on the coin.

I'm concerned with the hand being too prominent
I mean, it's beautiful.

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not sure how it would coin up.

So my preference went

2

to the two series based on my thoughts there.

3

all three of the two series.

4

different.

5

as the Bishop Museum because, you know, we show her

6

with a hibiscus in her hair.

7

know, I love the hibiscus flowers.

8

with a hibiscus in her hair is, you know, typically

9

Hawaiian.

I like

They're not that much

I kind of like the hibiscus almost as well

I've always thought, you
A Hawaiian girl

So I like that one almost as well.

But I'm

10

going to go with my first voice to go along with the

11

family and go with one with Bishop Museum with a

12

hibiscus and a very close second.

13

I wasn't in love with.

14

better, but I like the earlier designs better.

15
16

Three, I didn't --

Between 4 and 4A, I like 4A

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

MR. HOARD:

Thank you.

Turn

now to, Kellen?

17

This is Kellen

18

Hoard.

I was a big supporter of the 1 series as well.

19

And I liked all the different -- actually, all four of

20

the ones in the 1 series.

21

towards 1 or 1C.

22

lei.

But I would tend either

The reason being that 1A lacks the

And I would like to get, actually, both those

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elements in there.

2

lei in 1A and then, 1B, I know it was raised in a

3

concern in the descriptions by I think it was one of

4

the congressional committees that she was both holding

5

it and wearing it, and they didn't like that so much.

6

So I like her either wearing or holding it in 1 or 1C,

7

and I find that both of those designs quite excellent.

8

So that's about it for me.

9
10

She's not wearing or holding the

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.
Thank you so much.

Let's

turn out to, Harcourt?

11

DR. FULLER:

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

12

This is Dr. Harcourt Fuller.

I also like the 1

13

series.

14

say so, of the Jovita Idar quarters and just gives me

15

the same uniqueness, the same feel.

16

to see if my colleagues would agree with that

17

assessment.

But I like the 1 series.

18

4A, please?

Yes.

19

that she's, you know, she's writing with the pen.

20

think that's quite unique.

21

design as well, even though it is a bit traditional in

22

terms of a coin design.

You know, the 1 series reminds me, if I may

I also like 4A.

And I'm curious

Can we go to

I like the fact
I

You know, she pops in this

But I like how she's writing

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with the pen.

2

you go -- is that 12?

3

them.

4

sorry.

5

Not necessarily for the design, but for the lettering.

6

I think that when you look at this coin, you can

7

clearly see her name and her name pops in this one,

8

you know, so I like that.

9

series.

10
11

And there was a-- and let's see. can
Let me see.

There's one of

If you could -- yes, this one right here.
Go back.

Yes.

I'm

I do like this one as well.

But again, I like the 1

Thanks.
DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

Let's

turn out to, Dennis?

12

MR. TUCKER:

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

And

13

thank you to the family and our liaisons for your

14

insight and sharing your thoughts.

15

the artist of group 1 through 1C.

16

beautiful portrait, and I think the entire composition

17

is very well done.

18

three-inch silver medal.

19

design.

20

to the designs where she is shown either actively

21

writing or pausing the active writing.

22

us with group 2 and group 4.

I want to praise
I think this is a

I would love to see this on a
It's just a remarkable

However, as a writer myself, I was more drawn

So that leaves

The two designs in group

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4 reminded me of the 2017 Sequoia Native American $1

2

with the invention of the Native American syllabary,

3

where he is actually drawing on the coin as well.

4

I think that's a neat effect.

5

in general.

6

They're nice portraits.

7

written communication.

8

the Bishop Museum.

9

particular has not only family buy in, but also is a

But I do prefer group 2

I think these are nice compositions.
They have her in the act of
And I like the inclusion of

And I know that design 2 in

10

preference of two of our Senate liaisons.

11

strongly in favor of design 2.

12
13

So

DR. BROWN:

So I'm

Thank you, Dr. Brown.

Thank you so much.

Turn

now to, Chris?

14

DR. CAPOZZOLA:

All right.

Thanks,

15

everyone.

Just briefly, series 1, I shared the

16

enthusiasm for it, but also just the hesitation that

17

it just seemed a bit busy.

18

back, which I know represent water, might not come

19

through clearly enough there.

20

simplicity to 4A, you know, for the work that this

21

coin would need to do.

22

choice that the CCAC could make, and that doesn't

You know, the lines on the

There is a certain

It's the easiest and safest

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necessarily make it the wrong choice, but, you know,

2

it certainly gets, in some ways, the work done.

3

be perfectly happy with 2 as well.

4

the preference is for 2 at the Bishop Museum, that

5

would be my preference in the 2 series.

6

one comment and two questions -- or one comment and

7

one question.

8

example, at 4A, I want us to spend a little bit of

9

time thinking about fonts and ways in which fonts of

I'd

And then again, if

I did have

The comment is about if you look, for

10

the United States of America appear here.

And then,

11

"N.n. I Ke Kumu" and I want to make sure we're not

12

exoticizing her Native American identity by

13

exoticizing the fonts in certain ways.

14

that happens in some of the other designs as well.

15

And think about, frankly, I'd love to see United

16

States of America in the same font as "N.n. I Ke

17

Kumu".

18

about translation.

19

translation, "Look to The Source," and some do not.

20

And the tension here is that, you know, a coin is a

21

teachable moment.

22

language.

And I think

And then the question for the liaisons is
Some of the designs include the

It's a chance to teach the Hawaiian

On the other hand, the question is, you

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know, it also reiterates the idea that Hawaiian is a

2

foreign language rather than, you know, part of

3

America's heritage.

4

any preference among the liaisons or family members

5

about the translation question.

6

And just wondering if you have

MS. HARMAN:

Yes, if I could chime in

7

again.

So I am in a lot of ways trying to kind of

8

carry on like great grandmother's footsteps.

9

currently teach -- my 22nd year teaching at Hawaii

I

10

(inaudible) School.

And so this is something that we

11

talked about as a family (inaudible) my father,

12

(inaudible) and my sisters as well.

13

important that -- we felt like we didn't want to have

14

the translation because not just that it made it a

15

little busier looking.

16

I feel -- we felt that would come out in the

17

literature that accompanies the coin itself.

18

the website at the U.S. Mint, that information that

19

would be brought out to the general public could have

20

a deeper kind of conversation about the status of

21

native languages all over the world and especially our

22

unique language.

It's very

But that's a conversation that

And all

And so we felt that, you know, that

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would cause people to pause and ask questions about, I

2

wonder what this said, and then dive deeper into what

3

our language, how to learn our language.

4

read the letters for that when accompanying it, rather

5

than just have the point itself and have the

6

translation right there.

7

that did not have the translation.

8

think, why the subsequent designs in the 1 series was

9

to add on these thoughts again, and I just want to --

And I'll

So we prefer the designs
And that was, I

10

well, actually, I'll wait for the -- so that's that.

11

Yeah.

No translation would be our preference.

12

DR. CAPOZZOLA:

13

DR. BROWN:

Thank you.

Thank you so much and we

14

really appreciate it.

15

comments you'd like to offer based on what you've

16

heard from the committee?

17

Do you have any further

MS. HARLAN:

Yes.

So -- and maybe my

18

dad and my aunt would also thank you so much for

19

taking into consideration the ideas of the

20

preferences.

21

series -- the 1 series, any of the designs.

22

is where we kind of defer to the expertise of people.

And I want to just share so the whole 1A

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All the things that you thought of for exactly what

2

you had spoken about in (inaudible) as far as how is

3

it going to look translating onto a coin with all the

4

background that's going on and, you know, all the

5

business of it all.

6

translation.

7

ask ourselves as well.

8

1 design and the number 4 were actually the present of

9

my father.

And then can we take off the

And so these are all questions that we
The whole series of the number

So you have on the call two grandchildren

10

and Auntie Dodie is her preference, was the number 2

11

design series.

12

sisters, we kind of leaned more towards the number 1

13

design as well as the number 4 because of her -- the

14

likeness to what our great grandmother not only looked

15

like, but what she did.

16

had said, (inaudible) writing was perfected and

17

preserving all of this knowledge for us.

18

would be our, I think -- I don't know.

19

you wanted to say something as well.

20

And then my father and myself and our

so writing, like, somebody

MR. SUGANUMA:

And so, that
I'm done if

I just wanted to add

21

that they're all beautiful.

And a little bit about

22

the significance of the hibiscus.

Where we lived in

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Honolulu, on the corner of Birch and Elm Street, the

2

house was surrounded by hibiscus.

3

hibiscus that existed.

4

to Waikiki would swing into this little area and go

5

right by our house to show the tourists all the

6

beautiful hibiscuses.

7

prominent role, you know, in the place where we grew

8

up.

9

"N.n. I Ke Kumu", it's a good way to learn a little

Every type of

In fact, tour buses on the way

So the hibiscus plays a

Also,

10

bit about Hawaiian, but it's very significant because

11

"N.n. I Ke Kumu" means to look at the source.

12

it's a phrase that used a lot today after she wrote

13

that book.

14

our history, about our thinking, and about our

15

culture, you know, they're also look to the source.

16

And it's very, very important, I think, for people to

17

know, "N.n. I Ke Kumu" Mohalo.

18

And

Because when people have questions about

MS. HARMAN:

Yes.

Thank you.
So you can see the

19

family has even that art.

So you have a very daunting

20

task because different branches had different

21

preferences and then, Auntie Dodie, I don't know if

22

you want to talk about the number 2 design, which was

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your preference.

2

MS. BROWNE:

Well, my take on it is is

3

my grandmother was a very simple person.

She lived

4

with us.

5

about the museum, and she felt very strongly that she

6

would not have been able to do what she did without

7

the support of the museum.

8

I think, to me, it would be nice to include the

9

museum.

I was an only child, so she always talked

It gave her direction, and

She was a simple person.

She didn't like a

10

lot of designs, color, if you remember the time frame,

11

she was born in 1895.

12

calicos, which were small prints for, always made by -

13

- we had a wonderful seamstress that would make her

14

mu'umu'u and she always chose things that were simple,

15

simple design, simple taste.

16

what came through on that particular coin with the

17

museum, is it's very simplistic.

18

very much her.

19

that one.

20

Her preferences were always

And to me, and that was

And that was, to me,

That's why that was -- I was drawn to

DR. BROWN:

So you have -- we really

21

appreciate the different views of the family.

22

have made an important point that you made the

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challenge even more substantial for us because we

2

typically like to lean in the direction of the family.

3

We appreciate that, but I'm going to turn it over to

4

some of my colleagues because the more that we can

5

sort of narrow this, the better, and the stronger is

6

our recommendation.

7

Donald?

MR. SCARINCI:

Thank you so much for,

8

you know, explaining your different views.

And I, you

9

know, and I -- and I'm looking at this a little

10

differently now.

11

about am I correct that the -- in 01 in the 4 series,

12

all by the same artist, by the way, in the 4 series,

13

is this going to be incuse?

14

America and the, you know, and the motto and

15

everything going to be incuse in the coin with the

16

portrait, you know, kind of, jutting out of that

17

incuse?

18
19

And I'd like to ask Joe a question

Is the United States of

Is that the way you're envisioning it?
MR. MENNA:

I'm not envisioning it.

The artist -- I don't mean that disrespectful.

20

MR. SCARINCI:

21

MR. MENNA:

22

is Joseph Menna.

No.

The way the artist -- this

The way the artist is envisioning it

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is as presented, the text would be necessarily

2

highest.

3

texture could not be textured field, that would also

4

be a raised layer.

5

would be the part that is polished.

6

series, number 4 provides greater -- the 3 or 4

7

provide a greater opportunity for success.

The swirls that it's on after that, the

And the white behind that, that

8

MS. STAFFORD:

9

MR. MENNA:

I think in this

It's 1 --

I mean, 1B and 1C rather

10

provide a greater opportunity for success because of

11

the clarity.

12

behind her neck that's raised.

13

more of those borders.

14

layer that is raised, which is textured.

15

have outlines, but it would be raised, and that will

16

provide more opportunity for polish.

17

there's more logic to the swirls, yet it does not

18

detract from their dynamic quality.

19

perspective, I'm not trying to influence anybody or

20

invalidate anybody.

21
22

There's an implied border that goes
There's only a few

Then we see the secondary

MR. SCARINCI:

No.

It doesn't

And I think

From my

And the United

States of America doesn't appear on the obverse, so

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this is the only place it's going to appear.

2

MR. MENNA:

Yes, sir.

3

MR. SCARINCI:

I, you know, I like the

4

elegance of the portrait, you know, by the artist who

5

did the first series.

6

number -- and I could see why you like number 1B, you

7

know, I mean, the portrait is nice.

8

Joe.

9

conclusion after listening to everything is, you know,

And I can see why you like

I think this stands out.

And I agree with

And I guess my

10

if we went with 1B, it's a coin that would stand out

11

on a reverse as opposed to, you know, as opposed to

12

4A, which is just like every other coin in the series.

13

DR. BROWN:

So it seems to me --

14

MS. HARMAN:

And if I can interject

15

really quickly.

So the 1B, I think that was our

16

attempt after we saw the initial designs that were

17

presented, and that was our attempt to kind of

18

simplify like she said.

19

going on, as beautiful as the design was, and it

20

really does stand out.

21

a little bit and then include more elements.

22

that's why we asked for her dress to be shown as well

You know, there was a lot

We wanted it to be simplified

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as a lei, because these are -- although the design

2

might not have been something that she would have

3

necessarily chosen, it's not quite a (inaudible) but

4

it is our -- something that all of our kupuna, all of

5

our ancestors were very proudly our traditional

6

garment.

7

tree of Hawaii.

8

is on the second part of the second part, the second

9

draft that we were sent.

And so, with a lei as well, which is a state
The state tree -- kukui and so this

That was kind of our

10

attempt.

11

standpoint how it would translate into a coin and how

12

this is different, you know, the raised lettering and

13

all of that would work out to stand out.

14

really like the way that she's looking off into the

15

distance.

16

dignity of "N.n. I Ke Kumu" looking to the source and

17

off into the distance rather than straight head on at

18

us.

19
20
21
22

So I really do appreciate hearing from your

And we just

And with all her knowledge, but also her

DR. BROWN:

Thank you so much.

Unless

any committee members -- Kellen?
MR. HOARD:

I just have one quick

question if I could?

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DR. BROWN:

Please.

2

MR. HOARD:

This is Kellen Hoard.

I

3

find myself more and more drawn to, you know, 1B and

4

1C in terms of clarity on the coin, in terms of the

5

likeness, like we've discussed, in terms of the

6

symbolism, in terms of the language, but without the

7

translation.

8

I'm wondering from the family if they could speak to

9

1B versus 1C, because both of the Senate committees, I

I find myself just really drawn to it.

10

believe, were concerned about the lei being in the

11

hand and on the neck.

12

there's a preference in the family, whether the fruit

13

be more clear, whether they're worried about the

14

duplication or whether they're okay with kind of the

15

1B words in both locations, whether they had concerns

16

with clutter or with appearance or any other thing,

17

what the distinction was for the family.

18

And I didn't know whether

MS. HARMAN:

I can kind of -- just

19

because -- that was my -- so, I just have to Mohalo,

20

Roger, for, you know, just kind of walking us through

21

this whole process.

22

shown, I actually had concerns about that because this

So the way that the hand is

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is not like a traditional gesture that we would have

2

had.

3

artist perspective, and then also, I think, previous

4

points, there's some kind of uniformity to the gesture

5

itself.

6

important.

7

although multi lines are very similar, having the lei

8

in her hand and then also on her neck would have been

9

our preference, but it's not a very strong, strong

And so it was a (inaudible) strange from an

And so having something in her hand was very
I think the only difference between

10

preference.

11

anyone, but the tool that's in her hand, it kind of

12

reminded us of, like, a good part of (inaudible) that

13

was like, I don't know about the tool as opposed to

14

just the way that it looked, and I don't know how that

15

would translate on a coin.

16

something was a little rather than (inaudible) in her

17

hand.

18

And the only reason I'm sorry if I offend

DR. BROWN:

But -- and so that was why

Thank you so much.

Let's

19

do this, my colleagues let's, in fact, score issues,

20

and then let's see if that gives us any further

21

clarity about the next step.

22

five minutes to scoring that will be completed by Greg

So we're going to take

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Weinman.

And then he will report the results to us.

2
3

MS. WARREN:

So we recess for five

minutes.

4

(Off the record.)

5

DR. BROWN:

Okay.

We are back.

I now

6

recognize Greg Weinman, who will present to us the

7

results.

8

MR. WEINMAN:

Once again, out of the 10

9

members scoring, the high possible score is a 30.

10

That in mind, design number 1 received 19 points.

11

Design 1A received 12.

12

which is a very close top scoring design.

13

received 17 points.

14

received four points.

15

4 received 4.

16

really very close between 1 and 1B, 19 and 20 points,

17

respectively, followed by 1C with 17.

18
19

Design 1B received 20 points,

02 received 13 points.
2B received 7.

And 4A received 14.

DR. BROWN:

Design 1C
2A

3 received 2.

So, once again,

Thank you, Greg.

Are there

any motions from the committee?

20

DR. VAN ALFEN:

This is Peter Van

21

Alfen.

I would move that we adopt 1B as the reverse

22

for this as is it seems to align with the family's

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preferences and with the CFA as well.

2
3

MR. BERNSTEIN:
seconds.

4

DR. BROWN:

Okay.

5

the motion?

6

favor signify by saying, aye.

Hearing none.

7

GROUP:

8

DR. BROWN:

9
10

Arthur Bernstein

abstentions?

Any discussion on

Seeing none.

All those in

Aye.
Any opposed?

Any

By my hearing, it sounds like that it is

a much (inaudible) carried unanimously.

11

I would like to take this time to

12

really thank the family.

13

appreciate how the family, particularly when we get

14

together.

15

eye to eye on everything.

16

that you were courageous enough to share with us the

17

differences that you had in terms of this program.

18

we'd like to take this moment to thank you for your

19

attending and participation in this discussion.

20
21
22

We can understand can

There may be times when we don't always see
So we appreciate the fact

MS. HARMAN:

(inaudible) to the

MS. BROWNE:

(inaudible)

committee.

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So

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Thank you so much.

2

Aloha.

DR. BROWN:

Okay.

All right.

So this

3

is the last order of business for today's session.

I

4

just would like to take a few moments to share some

5

comments.

6

Advisory Committee for two consecutive one-year terms

7

was a tremendous honor and privilege.

8

with the committee comprised of experts from various

9

fields, including artists, historians and collectors,

Serving as chair of the Citizens Coinage

Collaborating

10

allow for a rich and diverse exchange of ideas.

The

11

responsibility to provide recommendations to the

12

Secretary of Treasurer on coin and medal designs

13

involved balancing historical significance with

14

cultural representation and artistic innovation.

15

experience not only deepened my appreciation of the

16

importance of coins and medals in preserving and

17

reflecting national heritage, but also underscored the

18

significance of public engagement in the storytelling

19

of the nation's coinage on one of the smallest

20

(inaudible).

21

the CCAC, the phenomenal Mint staff, our liaisons, our

22

artists, and the public for their attendance today and

This

I would again like to thank members of

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to let them know I'm fully, really appreciative of

2

what you have done and supported the CCAC over these

3

last two years.

4

The next public meeting will be in 2024

5

and announced in the Federal Register.

6

there is a motion to adjourn.

7

MR. SCARINCI:

I now ask if

Dr. Brown, before a

8

motion to adjourn, I'd like to say something.

9

you going to say something?

10

DR. VAN ALFEN:

11

MR. SCARINCI:

Were

I was but go ahead.
So, I mean, I would like

12

to speak personally to those of you who are in the

13

selection process for CCAC members.

14

to share with you something rather personal.

15

know, for three-and-a-half years during the Pandemic,

16

I ran the law firm operating remotely and it was the

17

most challenging experience of my life.

18

none.

19

this Pandemic, Larry, you know, was, you know, more

20

heavily engaged than any other member that I've known

21

since 2007.

22

-- I never got a call from a chairman before.

And I would like
I, you

Second to

And, you know, for the last, you know, during

And when I first became a member, he was

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know, but --

2

DR. BROWN:

Never harassed.

3

MR. SCARINCI:

Never harassed.

And,

4

you know, the caring and the attention that he has

5

paid to other collectors who've asked questions.

6

his concern for making sure that everyone was touched

7

and his concern for making sure that as we changed

8

members on this committee throughout the Pandemic and

9

we hardly knew each other because we never met in

And

10

person until recently, you know, it was Larry -- it

11

was Larry Brown who kept us all together as a group.

12

And I would hate to see, you know, I think one thing,

13

you know, we really need as a committee, as a CCAC, is

14

some cohesiveness and continuity.

15

this Pandemic, we're not there yet, right?

16

people are still working from home, you know, in my

17

law firm and everywhere else, and we're not there yet.

18

And I think having continuity on this committee

19

creates cohesiveness.

20

personally, I want to implore any of you who I don't

21

have any idea what the process is or who's involved in

22

it.

And coming out of
I mean,

And I just wanted to say

You know, it's a mystery to me.

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whatever criteria you're using to consider appointing

2

members, I really like you to give a strong, hard look

3

to Dr. Brown and the contributions he's made

4

throughout the most difficult time, certainly of my

5

life, and I think probably most of you.

6

even more difficult having new members join us, you

7

know, every four years during the same period.

8

just want to make a personal appeal to whoever is

9

involved in this process to reappoint him.

10

DR. VAN ALFEN:

And it was

So I

Thank you.

And to that, I would

11

just like to say I think we owe Dr. Brown a hearty

12

round of applause for doing such a fantastic job in

13

the last couple of years as Chair.

14

MR. MORAN:

Before you get in, I want

15

to add my two cents in on this.

And, Donald, I highly

16

concur with everything you've said.

17

a friend.

18

and he always listens to me.

19

that he's been an excellent leader, and we could use

20

four more years of his participation on this committee

21

and his leadership on this committee from whether it's

22

a chair position or a voting member position.

I consider Larry

We've had many conversations on the phone,
But no, I really think

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I'd

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like to see him have another term.

2
3

DR. BROWN:

Folks, listen, I did

not open that door for the sake of -- Harcourt?

4
5

Okay.

DR. FULLER:

I believe I have my hand

up.

6

DR. BROWN:

7

DR. FULLER:

That, you do.
And folks, please forgive

8

me also for I know you're anxious to get home, but

9

please, I also need to weigh in.

I appreciate Dr.

10

Brown's service, and particularly, as a military man

11

as well, because one thing I appreciate about Dr.

12

Brown is, when he's at the helm, I have a lot of

13

confidence.

14

airplane or you're taking a cruise, and you know that

15

the person at the helm is capable.

16

I have a lot of confidence.

17

he runs a meeting, it's precise, you know, and it's

18

just -- again, the word that comes to mind is capable

19

and confident.

20

inspiring as well.

21

said, you call folks, you really care about people's

22

opinions.

You know, it's like when you're on an

They listen.

And

If you guys look at how

And I want to say that you're very
You -- as one of our colleagues

And that is something that we have to

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commend because there are leaders that don't listen to

2

other folks.

3

colleagues, and again, I appreciate you.

4

a variety of levels you represent a lot to a lot of

5

people, and I think that, you know, since, I mean, I

6

think, we've had a great run with respect to the

7

diversity of ideas, of individuals, of thought, of

8

designs with you at the helm.

9

only do I appreciate you, but I appreciate everyone

You're very respectful of your
Certainly on

And just finally, not

10

who has served on the CCAC and everyone who continues

11

to serve.

12

Thank you.
MR. MENNA:

As an observer, not as my

13

current position, but as someone who's been in the

14

audience for almost 20 years of this stuff.

15

coolest thing, Dr. Brown is just an incredible

16

gentleman, a great person, but I've never seen a

17

chairperson actively solicit make sure everybody was

18

heard and go back and double back and double back.

19

is the most egalitarian person to sit in that chair in

20

the 20 years that I -- nearly 20 years that I've been

21

here.

22

DR. BROWN:

The

Folks, I think we have a

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He

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November 28, 2023

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motion on the table.

2

Second.

DR. VAN ALFEN:
second.

I'll second.

All right.

I'll

Peter Van Alfen.

5

DR. BROWN:

6

GROUP:

7

DR. BROWN:

8

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:

9

Aye.

Okay.

3
4

All those in favor?

All those in favor, aye.

Aye.
Opposed, nay.
Too bad.

if you do --

10

DR. BROWN:

We are adjourned.

11

(Whereupon, at 2:32 p.m., the

12

proceeding was concluded.)

13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22

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Even

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2

CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC
I, MATTHEW YANCEY, the officer before whom

3

the foregoing proceedings were taken, do hereby

4

certify that any witness(es) in the foregoing

5

proceedings, prior to testifying, were duly sworn;

6

that the proceedings were recorded by me and

7

thereafter reduced to typewriting by a qualified

8

transcriptionist; that said digital audio recording of

9

said proceedings are a true and accurate record to the

10

best of my knowledge, skills, and ability; that I am

11

neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any

12

of the parties to the action in which this was taken;

13

and, further, that I am not a relative or employee of

14

any counsel or attorney employed by the parties

15

hereto, nor financially or otherwise interested in the

16

outcome of this action.

17
18
19
<%29511,Signature%>
20

MATTHEW YANCEY
Notary Public in and for the

21

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

22

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Meeting

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1
2

CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER
I, SONYA LEDANSKI HYDE, do hereby certify

3

that this transcript was prepared from the digital

4

audio recording of the foregoing proceeding, that said

5

transcript is a true and accurate record of the

6

proceedings to the best of my knowledge, skills, and

7

ability; that I am neither counsel for, related to,

8

nor employed by any of the parties to the action in

9

which this was taken; and, further, that I am not a

10

relative or employee of any counsel or attorney

11

employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or

12

otherwise interested in the outcome of this action.

13
14
15
<%12151,Signature%>
16

SONYA LEDANSKI HYDE

17
18
19
20
21
22

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202-857-3376

Meeting

[01 - 1st]
0
01 35:20 36:7
39:13 40:3
51:4,5,21
58:17 96:3,18
171:11
01a 96:19
02 51:3,21 53:5
53:18 58:1,10
58:17 60:15,17
61:2,7,17,21
61:22 63:8,19
96:19 105:6
114:16 177:13
03 96:19
135:16,17
137:6
04 20:18 22:6
57:20 58:10,10
58:18 61:5,18
61:21,21 62:14
63:11 96:5,20
104:8 105:7,9
107:20 112:2
116:8 136:9
06 20:10 96:16
104:1 128:1
137:11,13
07 96:16
07a 96:20
07b 97:11
08b 97:11
1
1 6:19 7:3,6
9:17,20 10:20
24:22 36:16
37:1 39:14

November 28, 2023

Page 1
40:3,18 67:4
70:18,19,22
72:10 125:2
144:10 146:18
149:14 155:11
157:21 158:7,8
158:8,16,22
159:4,5,8,19
160:19 161:18
161:20,21
162:6,12,13,17
163:8,15 164:1
164:15 167:8
167:21 168:8
168:12 172:8
177:10,16
1.1 76:10
1.1. 76:10
1.4 13:16
1.6 76:4
10 17:3 35:18
67:14 144:19
177:8
100 72:9 98:15
10th 109:10
11 17:3 29:16
35:18
115-197 41:2
117-132 90:16
11:45 123:15
11th 13:1,2
12 93:20 95:16
126:8 144:22
163:2 177:11
12151 187:15
13 17:4,4 19:15
20:3,4,11,12
20:13,19 22:11

22:13 25:20
29:22 31:16
35:15,19 67:20
177:13
130th 70:20
14 17:4,4,5
19:15 20:3,4,6
20:11 22:11,11
22:13 23:17
24:21 25:15,21
26:1 27:3
29:22 31:16
35:19,21 36:7
36:17 37:1,17
37:20 38:20
39:13,16 40:4
177:15
15 70:18 72:2,3
144:22
150 148:4
16 67:16
17 35:19
177:13,17
1700s 90:21
1792 69:22
1794 70:18,21
71:2,7,13,22
72:4,4,7,19
73:18 75:22
78:15,16 80:8
80:20 81:7
84:3
1895 148:11
170:11
19 43:9 48:10
48:14 56:16
71:6 177:10,16

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1901 125:16
1913 126:4
1919 13:2
1920 26:8
1932 26:8
1935 42:4
1937 148:21
1942 91:1,11
92:14 112:10
1943 92:3
1952 42:9
1956 42:12
1960s 130:18
1971 42:22
1972 43:10
1984 93:6
1992 127:3
19th 91:11
1a 155:13
158:8 159:4
160:13 161:21
162:2 167:20
177:11
1b 155:16
159:8 160:14
162:2 172:9
173:6,10,15
175:3,9,15
177:11,16,21
1c 155:18
158:17 161:21
162:6 163:15
172:9 175:4,9
177:12,17
1st 91:7 92:5,7

Meeting

[2 - able]
2
2 155:21
156:18 158:17
163:22 164:4,8
164:11 165:3,4
165:5 168:10
169:22 177:14
2,941 148:9
20 69:19
177:11,16
184:14,20,20
2000 147:7
2002 29:16
2004 127:4
2007 180:21
2009 147:1
2013 43:13
2017 164:1
2018 43:14
45:10
2022 113:14
20220 1:13
2023 1:6 4:16
11:13
2024 6:17
10:14 14:4,7
15:11 17:13
26:7 34:16
41:15 70:18
71:17,20,22
72:8,12 180:4
2025 6:19 7:3,6
9:17,20 10:20
11:13 40:18
41:9,12 50:1
67:3 125:2
143:12 144:9

November 28, 2023

Page 2
146:17 147:7
2028 6:16
10:12 14:2,9
34:14
20th 92:14
148:11
21 145:2
21st 30:14
22nd 166:9
23 35:11,20
24 6:14 11:12
67:17,21 70:19
71:20
24th 42:4
25 6:14
27 35:10,10
28 1:6 15:19
17:12 30:4
35:21
28th 4:16
29511 186:19
29th 92:11,12
92:16 93:9
101:12 115:9
2:32 185:11
2a 177:13
2b 156:3
177:14
2d 85:18
2nd 92:18 93:3
3
3 156:3 172:6
177:14
30 67:15,15,16
67:17,22
131:14 144:20
177:9

33 44:21
34 76:12
39 77:7
3rd 92:8
4
4 156:3 157:13
158:22 161:13
163:22 164:1
168:8,13
171:11,12
172:6,6 177:15
177:15
40 77:7 131:14
40th 93:5
45 126:9
4:30 4:20
4a 156:5
157:10,10,22
158:1,10
161:13,13
162:18,18
164:20 165:8
173:12 177:15
4th 92:9
5
5 80:20 127:19
50 41:6 91:11
52 148:4
5th 92:19 93:7
6
6 17:11
60s 55:3 65:9
134:18
6167588 1:22
6th 92:20
101:12

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7
7 13:15 17:3
177:14
70s 55:3 134:18
7820 48:10
7a 99:16,17
100:8 105:9
106:11,12,13
106:18,21
107:18,20
110:9,18 111:3
111:8 113:6,8
116:8,22
7th 126:4
8
8 17:3
801 1:12
8:59 4:17
9
9 17:3
90 66:7 103:6
93 126:8
9:00 1:7 4:18
4:19
9th 1:12
a
a.m. 1:7
ability 81:12
186:10 187:7
able 31:10 34:9
37:12 38:12,12
38:13 54:17
61:21 94:10
95:2,17 120:15
142:13 153:1
155:6 170:6

Meeting

[above - advocated]
above 22:20
absent 155:8
absolutely 77:1
119:6 157:14
abstain 69:8
abstention
69:12 88:9,11
88:14
abstentions
12:2,6 37:8
40:9 121:14
145:19 178:9
academic 10:3
43:19 80:3
accept 36:5,16
68:15 116:20
117:7
accepted 28:21
117:22
accepting
155:2
accolades
44:16 155:2
accommodated
109:1
accompanies
166:17
accompanying
167:4
accomplish
31:11
accomplished
50:8 144:14
accomplishes
39:13
accomplishm...
50:4,11 69:21

November 28, 2023

Page 3
accomplishm...
49:22 57:5
accordance
41:8
accuracy 26:15
116:19 132:9
145:12
accurate 98:6
111:9 112:2,18
129:20 130:17
132:19 186:9
187:5
achieve 22:6
39:1
achieved 103:1
achievement
58:8
achieves 22:5
acknowledge
12:19 124:1
138:15
act 27:21 41:3
41:8 57:22
60:4,7,8
109:12,16
113:5,8,12,13
113:22 114:7
114:10 116:13
118:18 119:2
120:7 121:2
164:6
action 57:21
61:19 104:8,9
105:8 186:12
186:16 187:8
187:12
actions 91:17

activated 90:22
92:13
active 39:10
92:21 93:16
163:21
actively 163:20
184:17
activity 139:14
actual 133:19
139:19
actually 25:5
29:5 30:4,6
37:17 38:16,21
39:6 46:12
52:20 53:8
57:20 64:13
66:4,4,19
81:20 96:14
98:9 110:12
112:11 117:12
130:21 133:5
134:6 135:5
137:7 139:9
157:15 161:19
161:22 164:3
167:10 168:8
175:22
add 29:9 31:10
31:16 56:17
78:18 108:2,9
109:16 111:13
119:16 130:22
143:8 145:11
167:9 168:20
182:15
added 128:16
adding 32:5
116:13 130:20

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addition 14:20
44:16 49:8
117:11 127:1
134:5
additional 27:5
66:19,21 91:15
92:3,9 111:14
111:16 143:5,7
address 54:13
71:10 78:6
95:2 159:9,11
addressed 11:8
138:17
adjourn 180:6
180:8
adjourned
185:10
adjust 54:17
adjusted 46:15
46:19
adjustments
20:11
admittedly
118:17
adopt 68:3
145:6 177:21
adoption
126:14
advance 45:15
advantage 24:2
advisory 4:16
128:5 140:13
179:6
advocate
151:15
advocated
147:11

Meeting

[aesthetic - anybody]
aesthetic 83:13
affairs 2:5 9:1
9:8,9 10:3
43:19 155:20
156:3,5
affected 49:11
afford 83:21
africa 91:16
african 93:1
afternoon 90:8
123:21
age 56:14 58:3
58:5
agenda 6:11
18:19
aging 75:3
agree 20:9 22:2
22:22 23:1
24:16 29:13
61:4,18 63:12
64:9 65:12
79:16 83:18
95:11 98:15
103:15 109:7
115:12 130:16
135:15 162:16
173:7
agreed 53:16
agreeing 68:20
agreement
151:11
ahead 89:3
119:15 180:10
aided 42:6
aim 123:13
airplane
183:14

November 28, 2023

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airport 140:7
akin 85:8
alaskan 147:4
alfen 2:19 6:3,5
11:21 20:8,13
36:10,10,20,20
37:3 51:12,13
68:6,6 78:12
78:13 84:18
100:13,14
101:17 102:2
105:1,2 111:18
111:19 112:15
113:1 116:14
124:5,6 130:14
130:15 145:10
145:10 159:3,4
160:15 177:20
177:21 180:10
182:10 185:3,4
align 177:22
alignment
71:10 110:10
alive 148:19
allow 13:13
99:8 103:14
179:10
allowed 39:11
allowing 70:2
95:5,19
allows 13:19
38:8 103:20
aloha 150:21
150:22 152:16
154:5,12 179:1
alongside 54:5
alphen 20:9

altered 93:13
ambivalent
82:5
amended 46:11
amendment
68:14 86:12
87:6 116:17,21
117:8 118:2
120:11,13
145:11
amendments
117:10 118:10
121:6
america 43:16
47:4 73:1,3
126:16 149:14
160:7 165:10
165:16 171:14
172:22
america's
126:13 166:3
american 2:12
5:14 6:19 7:3,6
9:17,20 10:20
11:4 28:19
31:1 40:18
41:3 42:5 50:3
57:18 67:4
71:15 72:22
77:17 92:1
93:19 125:2
127:17 137:1
144:9 146:17
147:4,15 150:5
151:16 152:19
155:12,14,19
156:2 164:1,2
165:12

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americans
12:12 13:17,20
50:20 51:1
107:11 147:3
ammo 112:16
112:17,18,19
116:18
amos 7:13
ana 127:2
137:4
ancestors
174:5
ancient 30:16
angeles 6:16
10:12 14:2,10
16:4,7 21:3
26:3,9,13,16
26:17 27:11
29:18,19 30:5
34:15
angle 26:12
110:1
anniversary
13:3 70:20
93:5
announced
180:5
answer 18:8
53:17 60:2
94:9 152:8
answered 33:2
33:3 157:8
anticipation
15:12
anxious 183:8
anybody 80:21
172:19,20

Meeting

[anyone's - aspects]
anyone's 32:11
anyway 64:16
apart 24:8
apologies 37:2
apologize 19:7
65:3,10 72:6
122:9
appeal 182:8
appealing 58:1
appear 96:7
128:5 160:8
165:10 172:22
173:1
appearance
175:16
appears 26:16
111:6
applause
182:12
appointing
182:1
appreciate
12:17 15:13
23:14 48:4
56:8,13 58:14
60:4 62:21
66:3 78:10
102:21 103:13
104:7 116:2
119:12 122:3,5
128:9 129:22
137:2 140:15
144:7 146:3,6
146:8 154:14
167:14 170:21
171:3 174:10
178:13,15
183:9,11 184:3

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Page 5
184:9,9
appreciating
156:19
appreciation
179:15
appreciative
180:1
approach 12:8
29:4 34:12
approachable
51:6
approached
39:8
appropriate
30:2 97:17
127:8 131:19
approval 6:12
11:10,17,19
approved 12:7
41:11,18
approximately
4:20 93:15
april 2:21 7:18
14:4 40:19
70:10 73:14,16
74:11 90:12
92:3 108:20
122:6,20 125:3
136:2 146:18
148:11 152:19
ar 53:5,18
58:17,17,18
arc 16:6 31:21
32:3,3,4
architectural
21:6 48:8
archival 4:5

archives 79:2
area 42:16
169:4
argument
82:14
arkansas 6:20
9:21,21,22
10:5 40:19
41:13 42:2,5
42:12,14 43:13
43:13,16,21,22
52:4,13 56:15
59:15 62:10
67:5 68:12
arm's 39:15
armistice 13:3
army 7:1 10:5
10:10 89:22
90:5,10,17
91:1 94:5 95:9
array 149:1
arresting 39:7
art 18:1 19:13
20:20 23:1
27:16 28:1,3,5
28:13,17,17,20
28:21 29:4
30:3,4,11,12
30:19 51:18
68:11 80:11
109:5 116:2
117:7 137:15
148:15 156:14
169:19
arthur 2:6 5:4
11:18 18:2
20:21 27:7
51:19 80:12

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109:6 113:4
116:3 120:15
124:3 137:16
156:15 178:2
articulated
27:1,5
articulates
19:1
artist 31:21
48:13 59:11
144:2 159:17
163:15 171:12
171:19,21,22
173:4 176:3
artist's 144:3
artistic 24:13
65:12 122:21
179:14
artistically
64:14
artistry 160:9
artists 18:7
19:18 29:7
41:17 56:21
57:8 101:19
110:17 146:9
152:2 179:9,22
arts 17:3 46:7
71:6 94:21
140:5 155:18
asked 41:15
66:9 78:6
142:1 173:22
181:5
asking 99:2
100:10
aspects 148:6
149:19

Meeting

November 28, 2023

[assault - baijal]
assault 100:3
101:2
assembled 44:8
assembly
125:11,12,13
125:17 126:2,6
127:6,14,15,16
129:9,21,21
130:2,18
131:22 133:16
134:7 135:3,15
135:17,20,21
136:1,3 137:12
137:19,22
138:9 140:11
141:5 142:19
142:20 143:4
assessment
162:17
assisted 52:1
associate 10:3
11:3 43:18
152:17
associated
66:15 156:21
association
10:10 94:5
95:8
assuming
27:12
assure 45:14
attached 86:3
attempt 160:6
173:16,17
174:10
attendance
179:22

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attended
148:16
attending 7:16
40:16 146:1
178:19
attention 126:1
181:4
attire 46:4
attorney
186:14 187:10
attract 39:14
attracted
137:17 157:2
159:4
attractive
39:16 51:16
105:7 131:3
142:8
atypical 85:16
audible 6:8
9:13
audience
184:14
audio 149:5,8
186:8 187:4
august 91:11
aunt 59:13,15
62:2 167:18
auntie 168:10
169:21
aunts 62:3
author 147:17
153:6
authoritative
148:5
authorization
15:6,13

authorized
101:12
automated
42:22
automation
133:19
automobile
125:11,15
126:14
automobiles
125:12 126:12
automotive
136:11
available 19:9
45:17
avant 28:3
avoid 46:9
award 43:11
awarded 43:10
91:15 93:17
94:12 100:6
103:3,5
awards 90:16
155:2
aware 159:14
awareness
45:12
aye 12:3,4 37:5
37:6,10,11
40:1,2 69:6,7
88:6,7,12
121:11,12
145:16,17
178:6,7 185:1
185:5,6

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

b
b 26:3
back 17:11
25:9 27:22
31:13 32:20
33:16 35:5,6
53:14 59:4
61:7,14 62:7
63:11 64:17
65:3,9,18 67:8
67:11 72:14
80:2 84:8
86:16 87:3
90:4 97:8
123:16,19,22
128:10 130:9
141:7 144:16
151:8 153:15
154:9 157:13
163:4 164:18
177:5 184:18
184:18,18
background
41:2 42:3
58:21,22 59:6
59:18 90:16
125:8 128:17
146:22 157:5
158:20 168:4
backup 127:1
bad 131:21
158:11,13
185:8
badge 101:16
102:22 103:4
baijal 3:8 8:13
8:15

Meeting

[balance - boys]
balance 107:18
balanced 49:6
106:8
balancing
179:13
ballet 23:4,6
banksy's 27:19
barracks 92:13
base 104:9
based 18:11
29:9 30:2
41:17 44:11
84:9 87:4
104:4 123:3
161:2 167:15
bases 110:15
basically 77:14
basin 60:22
basins 74:22
basis 92:7
battalion 91:7
91:22 92:6,7,8
92:8,9,11,15
92:20 93:3,10
101:13 104:6
112:7,10
battalion's
93:7
battalions 91:2
91:16 92:19,22
93:16 101:12
115:8
battle 104:11
bay 137:7
beach 93:7,8
99:1 101:6
beautiful 79:5
139:11 140:2,8

November 28, 2023

Page 7
160:3,22
163:16 168:21
169:6 173:19
beautifully
32:16
beckoning
106:6
began 126:3
beginning
121:19 148:21
beings 138:22
believe 49:6
73:20 76:10
96:12 97:1
102:10 123:9
144:2 175:10
183:4
beloved 84:9
153:6
belt 112:16,17
112:18,19
belts 116:18
126:7
benefit 19:2
bernstein 2:6
5:4 11:18 18:2
18:3 20:21
27:7,8 51:19
51:20 52:11
68:11 80:12,13
89:9,13 109:6
109:7 116:3,4
116:7,20 117:1
117:6,7,15,22
120:14,15
124:3,4 137:16
137:17 156:15
156:16 178:2,2

berstein 5:6
11:18
best 65:11
95:13 186:10
187:6
better 64:14,21
86:19 104:4
105:18 132:2,5
138:6 140:10
160:20 161:14
161:14 171:5
bevel 110:18
110:19 111:4
beyond 44:14
45:9 134:20
bieda 9:19
126:18,21,22
139:3,6,9
146:1,5,14
biennial 71:15
big 81:9 120:3
134:22 161:18
bigger 77:16
birch 160:3
169:1
bird's 135:19
136:6
birth 94:19
bishop 148:2
148:22 156:20
161:5,11 164:8
165:4
bit 4:20 17:14
24:21 26:2
49:4,5 54:1,13
54:18 64:14
73:3 83:5
105:6 107:21

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

131:10,15
134:2 149:10
162:21 164:17
165:8 168:21
169:10 173:21
bitter 44:19
black 42:14
43:13
blake 9:21
43:21
blessing 153:1
blessings 12:17
13:11
bluff 42:14
board 129:15
boat 49:9
body 48:17
bold 39:15
76:21 158:14
boneza 3:7
8:10 97:1
book 169:13
books 157:13
border 73:3
109:2 172:11
borders 172:13
borer 3:5 8:5
born 42:4
148:11 151:14
151:17 170:11
bother 81:16
bothered
107:19
bottom 26:18
31:22 72:13
bounce 133:17
boys 93:6

Meeting

[brainer - business]
brainer 129:7
branches
169:20
break 56:6
67:9,9 89:7,11
89:20
brendan 9:7
brevity 78:10
bridge 137:8
151:18
bridges 30:6
brief 19:8
30:11 56:17
123:5 138:14
153:4 154:7
briefly 21:14
21:20 44:15
51:5 85:3
151:1 164:15
brigadier 93:8
93:11 98:22
brilliant 30:22
bring 18:3
27:19 53:14
84:8 87:3
bringing 58:2
brings 62:7
british 91:3,9
91:12 101:2,9
broader 148:7
broke 139:15
brought 31:17
113:5 166:19
brown 1:5 2:2
4:10,11,13,14
4:19 5:7,10,13
5:16,19,22 6:3
6:6,9,10 7:14

November 28, 2023

Page 8
7:21 8:2,5,7,10
8:13,16,19,22
9:4,7,11,14
11:20 12:1,5
17:17,19 18:14
18:16 19:21
20:7,12,15,20
20:21 21:13
23:13 25:17
26:20,22 27:17
28:8,10 29:1,8
30:9 31:2
32:20 33:5,13
33:15,18,20
34:11 35:2,5,6
36:3,4,8,14,18
37:2,4,7,14
39:2,20 40:5,7
40:9 46:22
47:1,6,22 48:4
48:5,7,16
49:12 50:17
51:11,12,18
52:15 53:19,21
54:2,20 56:7
57:1,10,11
62:17 63:1,2,4
64:1,3 65:21
67:2,11,13
68:1,8,14,19
69:4,10 70:4,8
73:11,15 74:5
74:9 75:7,9,19
77:10,22 78:9
78:12,21 79:19
79:21 80:10,16
81:18 82:12,13
82:19 83:8

84:4,11,14,19
85:1 86:5 87:4
87:12 88:3,11
88:13,19,21
89:5,8,11,17
89:19 90:2,5,8
97:13,16 100:9
102:4,9,21
103:10 104:22
105:1,11,20
107:2,4,7,13
107:15 109:5
109:19 110:6
111:12,15
113:2 114:14
114:15 116:1,6
116:15 117:5,9
118:9,15
119:12,15,20
119:22 120:4,5
120:10,14,17
120:18,19
121:5,10,13
122:1,6,13
123:3,18,21
124:5,7,9,11
124:15,17,19
124:21,21
129:1 130:12
130:14 131:6
132:11 133:11
135:8,10
136:19 137:15
138:2,11 139:3
139:7 141:17
143:5,10,14
144:8,16,18
145:4,8,14,18

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

146:12,15
154:11,13
156:7,22 157:1
157:19 159:1,3
160:17,19
161:15 162:9
162:11 163:10
163:12 164:11
164:12 167:13
170:20 173:13
174:19 175:1
176:18 177:5
177:18 178:4,8
179:2 180:7
181:2,11 182:3
182:11 183:2,6
183:12 184:15
184:22 185:5,7
185:10
brown's 183:10
browne 11:1
154:5,10,12
170:2 178:22
bug 129:17
130:5
build 125:14
building 45:7
built 134:16
bunch 54:6
buried 93:19
bus 75:13
buses 169:3
busier 132:4
166:15
business 11:10
42:15 168:5
179:3

Meeting

[busy - certain]
busy 131:15
164:17
butchered
125:20
button 65:7
buy 79:6,8
142:22 164:9
bye 70:7,7
c
c 2:1 3:1 4:1
52:1 98:5
cad 49:3
calicos 170:12
california
14:10
call 4:15 5:3
18:8 39:13
52:9 59:15
96:2 123:22
124:2 168:9
180:22 183:21
called 7:17
camp 92:19
canada 45:2
canadian 91:12
candidate 6:19
6:21 7:1,3 14:1
15:14,14 16:3
16:15,17 17:18
18:22 33:6
34:13 40:18,22
41:20 45:13,20
46:21 67:3
70:9,12 73:10
90:10,14 96:3
96:18 97:7,11
97:12 125:2,6

November 28, 2023

Page 9
126:19 128:11
143:11 144:9
146:17,20
149:11,20
152:10 153:17
155:10 156:6
candidates 7:5
canvas 137:11
capable 183:15
183:18
capozzola 2:11
5:13,15 25:18
25:19 33:1
40:3,6,8 48:3
56:10 68:10,11
75:20 76:12
77:8,19 82:21
110:8 111:2,11
118:2,7 124:15
124:16 138:13
138:14 164:14
167:12
capture 34:9
132:16
captured
159:21
captures
157:11
capturing
149:4
car 132:7
140:22 141:10
142:21
carcasses
125:20
card 64:18
65:1,17

carderock
60:22
cards 64:19,22
care 178:22
183:21
career 44:10,17
44:21 146:7
148:2
carefully 83:5
109:8
caring 181:4
carried 92:22
101:3 112:11
178:10
carries 37:8
40:10 69:12
88:14
carry 31:21
112:7 166:8
carrying 23:5
111:21,22
112:13
cars 130:1
132:6,17
134:13,15,19
135:21 136:1
142:22 143:18
144:1,1 145:12
cartridge
112:19
case 57:18
63:11
cases 57:4
cast 137:22
caucus 155:12
155:15
caught 19:14
125:22 141:1

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

cause 167:1
ccac 1:2 2:3,5
4:4 6:11 7:8
9:2,5 11:11
34:18 38:1
50:19 164:22
179:21 180:2
180:13 181:13
184:10
ccac's 73:21
celebrated
12:14 13:2
50:3 93:2
celebrates 15:4
147:2
celebrating
50:10 142:19
143:2 147:11
151:9
celebrations
13:7
cemeteries
93:19
center 72:13,21
centers 92:10
cents 72:10
182:15
century 30:14
138:21 144:1
ceremonies
14:15 15:11
ceremony 6:17
10:13 14:3
34:16
certain 37:21
83:2 133:7
142:21 159:15
164:19 165:13

Meeting

[certainly - cleaner]
certainly 13:14
28:19 37:14
40:13 45:4,6,7
135:18 152:9
155:4 165:2
182:4 184:3
certificate
186:1 187:1
certify 186:4
187:2
cfa 17:6,7,16
20:10 31:18
46:13 48:2
49:18 51:16
71:8 73:7 96:1
96:6,9,21
103:16 104:17
128:14,15
178:1
cfa's 71:14
97:20
chair 6:11 19:6
39:5,19 118:16
136:21 179:5
182:13,22
184:19
chairman 9:19
17:17 20:16
28:9 29:1
30:10 31:15
46:21 48:18
69:8 74:8
76:16 88:10
97:13 116:4
132:13 143:13
180:22
chairperson
2:3 184:17

November 28, 2023

Page 10
challenge
171:1
challenges 57:6
challenging
114:3 180:17
chance 165:21
chancellor 10:3
43:19
change 28:6
32:11 73:6
77:3 78:5
85:13 151:20
160:6
changed 28:21
125:12 181:7
changes 81:15
81:15,16
127:22
changing 85:7
108:6
channel 92:17
chants 148:5
charge 111:21
133:1
check 111:9
112:21
checked 96:13
116:18 132:8
cherish 13:10
chesapeake
137:7
chicago 125:18
chief 2:21 7:18
8:16 14:4
17:15 21:15
29:2 30:15
31:14 40:20
46:17 70:11,15

84:20 85:2
90:12 125:4
146:18
child 53:14,15
62:4 66:13
170:4
chime 166:6
chiunzi 98:5,10
98:12,17 99:7
99:8
chiunzy 117:15
118:3
choice 63:19
115:10 127:11
131:17 132:2
156:18 164:22
165:1
choices 83:2
87:3 107:7
131:18
chose 170:14
chosen 36:16
174:3
chris 25:17,19
32:22 56:9
58:3 68:10
75:19 76:16
82:20 110:7
138:12,13
164:13
christopher
2:11 5:13
124:15
cinematic 32:6
circle 158:2
circulated
69:19

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

citation 98:8
100:7 108:16
110:10 118:4
citations 91:15
93:18 98:7
100:6 101:20
101:21 108:15
118:6
cities 14:15
15:4 20:18
21:2,7,9 22:1
22:10,22 25:15
28:19 29:20
38:13
citizen 128:5
citizens 4:15
140:13 179:5
city 30:5
civil 90:21
civilian 43:11
clamoring 79:9
clarify 120:6
clarity 172:11
175:4 176:21
class 43:9
127:18,21
classes 42:21
148:17
classic 79:3
classical 22:4
22:17 23:5
24:8 38:14
classics 79:10
classmates
148:21
clean 106:9,15
cleaner 26:2

Meeting

[clear - comes]
clear 18:4 31:5
31:8 60:17
63:13 64:11
67:21 109:17
175:13
clearly 33:22
54:7 61:2
66:15 80:20
163:7 164:19
clerk 42:17
cliffs 93:3
climb 93:3
clips 112:19
close 79:15
80:22 84:6
135:22 144:6
161:12 177:12
177:16
closely 25:5,8
156:21
closer 80:8
81:3
closing 6:17
10:13 14:3,14
15:11 34:16
clothes 46:1
cloud 65:7
clutter 175:16
clutters 157:15
coast 91:13
92:17
coauthored
148:7
code 65:9
cohesiveness
181:14,19
coin 6:20,22
7:4,6,13 9:17

November 28, 2023

Page 11
9:20 10:20
14:21 15:3
20:3 21:1 25:1
26:6 38:17
40:19 41:3
44:15 45:4
49:7 53:13
55:17 62:1,5
63:21 67:4
70:10,16,19,21
71:2,3,5,21
72:5,6,8,9,19
76:8 77:16
78:13,20 79:7
80:9,21 82:22
84:2 85:15
86:1 100:22
102:20 125:3
126:15 132:16
136:13 137:10
139:19 140:13
142:1 144:10
146:18 147:2
151:7 157:4
158:10 160:21
160:22 161:1
162:22 163:6
164:3,21
165:20 166:17
168:3 170:16
171:15 173:10
173:12 174:11
175:4 176:15
179:12
coinage 4:15
137:1 179:5,19
coinnews 7:12

coins 23:19
30:21 41:5,10
42:1 57:19
66:8 69:20
71:8,13 76:19
79:6 83:21
114:9 127:3
130:7 132:14
147:5 153:2
179:16
coliseum 16:7
17:10 20:4
32:16
collaborated
41:19
collaborating
148:22 179:7
collagey 22:8
24:17
colleague 47:3
colleagues
26:22 33:21
57:13 67:5
84:5 103:13,18
104:18 141:18
142:6 162:16
171:4 176:19
183:20 184:3
collect 30:12
collecting
53:13 62:5
147:9
collection
148:9 149:6
collective 13:12
collectively
93:17 95:15

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

collector 62:1
75:13 83:20
146:2
collectors 79:9
84:9 179:9
181:5
college 42:13
53:16
colonel 91:20
104:4,5 111:20
112:8,9,16
116:18
color 115:1
170:10
columbia 41:7
186:21
combat 91:10
92:4,15 100:1
100:2,21 101:3
101:15 102:22
103:4,6,8
combination
110:9 137:12
combined 91:3
combines 22:4
24:8
come 31:13
32:20 33:16
54:15 66:2
86:16 88:22
95:12 115:13
123:16 128:10
153:15 164:18
166:16
comes 133:6
151:7 157:17
183:18

Meeting

[comfortable - computer]
comfortable
18:21 53:1,4
coming 54:15
123:16,19
133:18 150:14
181:14
command
93:12 94:8
99:1
commanded
93:11
commander
91:22 93:10
112:7
commando
91:4,8 101:9
commandos
91:9,10 92:1
commemorat...
107:8
commemorates
12:12
commemorat...
69:20
commend
184:1
comment 27:8
28:12 30:3
31:17 47:17
52:2 56:18
57:13 64:5
68:21 74:17
86:7,11 95:22
97:8 119:21
142:16,17
156:19 165:6,6
165:7

commentary
99:6 115:1,19
comments
11:14 12:9
23:14 27:5
29:9 39:3,21
49:12,16 56:18
58:4 61:5
66:20,22 69:5
84:5 87:13
88:4 97:20
100:9 103:15
104:14 107:14
108:9 111:16
118:16 119:13
121:7 141:18
142:5,12 143:6
143:7 167:15
179:5
commerce
10:15
commission
17:2 46:7 71:6
94:21 128:6
140:6,14
155:18
commissioned
30:6
commitment
45:5
committee 4:16
5:2 11:10
14:16,17 17:20
18:17,20 29:3
29:10 30:18
31:3 32:8
34:13 44:2
45:15 47:7

November 28, 2023

Page 12
49:13 56:8
64:6 66:7 67:2
74:6 78:1 82:6
94:15,17 96:1
100:11,21
102:5 103:11
115:5 116:8
119:5,7,10
126:19 127:8
128:9 129:2
132:14 143:11
152:1 155:20
156:2,5,11
167:16 174:20
177:19 178:21
179:6,8 181:8
181:13,18
182:20,21
committees
153:20 162:4
175:9
common 114:4
communicated
54:6
communicati...
9:12 164:7
community
12:19 153:7
company 92:15
112:6 125:16
compare
105:16
compared
59:12 103:22
comparison
71:9
compelling
23:17 38:6

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

39:6 60:7,9
62:15 106:4,7
106:22 159:10
competition
23:6
compilation
34:3
complement
50:2
complete 34:17
completed
144:11 176:22
completely
81:4 152:21
completing
91:9
compliment
109:21
composer
147:17
composition
49:10 60:9
163:16
compositional
31:20
compositiona...
49:1
compositions
32:1 147:18
149:7 164:5
comprehensive
148:8
comprised
179:8
computer 42:6
42:7,20 43:3
52:1 55:14,15
61:10 63:14

Meeting

[computer - conversation]
64:18 65:3,10
65:19
computers
59:4
con 115:2,4
concept 42:2
86:18 91:3
92:4 108:3
125:10,10,13
138:9
concepts 41:10
41:10,16,17
concern 106:9
139:15 162:3
181:6,7
concerned
95:16 115:5
134:13 139:21
160:21 175:10
concerns 26:10
26:18 54:12
71:10 157:4
175:15,22
concluded
40:11 69:14
145:22 185:12
concludes
17:17 46:21
73:9 97:12
156:6
conclusion
14:11 173:9
concur 182:16
conducted
92:16
confess 26:22
141:18

confidence
55:18 183:13
183:16
confident
183:19
confirm 7:15
123:22
confusion
137:20
congratulatio...
19:18
congress
109:12,16
113:5,8,13
114:1,7,10
116:13 118:18
119:2 120:7
121:2 155:19
156:1
congressional
7:2 10:6,7
32:15 39:9
89:22 90:6,11
90:17 94:2,12
94:13 104:21
109:11,13,17
114:20 119:8,9
147:10 153:20
155:12,14
162:4
conjunction
15:10
connotation
28:20
consecutive
179:6
consensus
115:22

November 28, 2023

Page 13
consequence
134:3
consider 31:3
32:9 67:9 69:1
69:2 71:11
98:12 109:11
116:11,13
120:16,17,21
182:1,16
consideration
18:18 19:4
45:22 49:15
51:9 57:9 70:9
78:2 103:12
125:1 129:4
156:13 167:19
considerations
133:6
considered
47:12 96:12
149:16 151:5,6
constantly
149:18 153:10
constitution
72:4
consulted
149:18
consumer
10:18
contain 41:22
118:17
contained
94:18
contemplated
73:18 75:21
contemplates
83:4

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

contemporary
26:10
context 30:22
85:5 129:17
continue 83:11
154:2
continued
42:21 126:5
continues
134:16,17
148:10 155:5
184:10
continuing
45:8 134:14
continuity 38:5
181:14,18
contradict
48:21
contrary 87:7
contrast 135:2
contributed
13:9,21
contribution
51:7 56:15
contributions
51:2 121:20,21
147:3 182:3
convenience
34:6
convention
131:20
conversation
34:7 57:13
84:19 116:5
121:7 142:4
145:14 166:15
166:20

Meeting

[conversations - dayton]
conversations
30:20 66:1
74:3 119:3
182:17
conveyed 138:4
conveying
138:8
conveyor
125:21 126:7
conveys 26:2
convinced
137:9
cool 130:10
coolest 184:15
core 151:20
corner 169:1
corporate 9:12
correct 28:6
40:5 73:21
77:14 87:9
99:9,21 102:7
111:10 112:20
122:19 171:11
correctly 16:10
122:16
corresponding
77:2
cost 126:11,11
costello 8:19,21
66:21 76:3,3,9
76:14 108:21
111:14 143:9
cota 93:9,11
98:22
counsel 9:5,5
34:18 186:11
186:14 187:7
187:10

counselor 47:3
counterparts
15:10
countless 148:1
148:5
countries 15:4
country 13:6
14:12,12 28:2
30:13 45:5
51:2 104:13
107:11
couple 81:16
94:22 103:17
111:20 140:17
141:20 182:13
courage 91:19
courageous
178:16
course 46:16
136:10 152:15
court 4:8 19:2
courtesy 66:17
cover 110:15
covered 123:4
craft 100:3,5
101:2,2 108:12
create 43:4
73:3 98:11
created 41:17
72:8
creates 181:19
creating 48:13
creation 57:22
60:4,5,8
127:17
creative 24:7
55:14

November 28, 2023

Page 14
creatively
56:20
creativity
25:14
credit 24:13
credited 42:7
crime 27:13,13
criminal 10:4
43:20
criminology
10:4 43:20
crisper 76:21
criteria 182:1
critical 142:7
crucial 13:8
92:1 118:19
119:3
cruise 183:14
cultivate 12:18
cultural 149:7
149:22 179:14
culture 11:5
30:8 147:19
148:7 150:7
152:18 154:22
169:15
curator 2:20
6:4 11:3
152:17
curiosity
115:20
curious 114:18
119:1 140:18
159:9 162:15
current 52:20
184:13
currently 15:5
166:9

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

curve 159:12
curved 125:15
custom 148:12
d
d 4:1
dad 167:18
dagger 114:3
dahlgren 60:18
dancer 23:4
147:17
darby 91:21
92:5 112:9
darker 74:13
74:14
dash 125:15
date 71:22
75:15 81:3
82:9 134:13,19
148:8 151:7
dates 27:22
110:13 114:5
daughter 155:7
daunting
169:19
david 43:17
44:1 58:4,9
60:1
day 12:13 13:2
13:4 70:5
107:8 121:22
146:13,16
151:12 155:5
days 27:21
64:17 65:18
103:6 141:2,6
dayton 131:20

Meeting

[dc - design]
dc 1:13 42:16
de 16:6 31:21
dead 119:11
138:19
deal 79:2
december
92:14
decide 47:11
105:17
decision 19:11
63:10 122:11
142:20 153:4
declarations
151:11
decorations
72:10
deep 12:13
deepened
179:15
deeper 166:20
167:2
defend 104:13
defended 13:6
defer 167:22
definitely
27:21 76:6
120:7,11
128:10 152:10
153:15
definitive
122:10
degree 42:11
42:15
deliberate
97:10
delimiter 52:10
52:11,12 68:12

November 28, 2023

Page 15
demonstrated
91:17
denied 92:5
dennis 2:17
5:22 19:5
32:22,22 39:4
47:16 57:10,12
63:7,12 64:10
79:20,22
107:14,16
114:14 120:4,5
124:17 136:20
146:6 163:11
denomination
72:6,9
department
10:1 33:12
depending
26:16 117:17
117:18
depict 132:18
152:3
depicted 55:8
56:13 58:3
101:19 108:12
128:22 132:15
depiction 22:9
111:9 147:6
149:11
depictions 16:8
23:19 106:19
deployed 50:12
depots 92:11
descendants
10:8 94:3,15
describe 21:19
described
110:11

descriptions
45:16 162:3
design 2:21 3:2
3:4,5,6,7,8
7:18,22 8:3,5,7
8:10,13,20
14:5,6 15:17
15:22 16:3,17
16:18,20 17:1
17:3,9,11 18:3
18:5,22 19:14
21:5,8 22:15
23:1,17 25:6
25:11 27:10
35:10,12,12,14
35:15,15,16,17
35:17,18,19,19
35:21 38:17
39:7,17 40:20
41:5,10,16,20
41:21 42:6
43:2,4,8,9
45:16,20,20,21
46:5,10,20
47:8,21 49:3
51:17 52:1,6
52:21,22 54:4
54:9,9,16
55:14 58:1,7
58:12 60:16
61:2 62:11,13
63:13,15 64:16
65:1,12 67:15
67:16,18,18,19
67:20,21 68:3
70:11,22 72:14
72:18,22 73:18
74:15,16 77:6

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

80:3,19 81:10
81:11 83:7,17
84:9 86:14,15
86:16,21,22
87:1 90:12
94:14 96:4,5
96:20 97:1,11
105:7 106:16
113:6,17
114:12 120:8
125:4 127:3
128:12,12,17
128:18,21
129:7 130:11
130:20,22
131:4,21 133:7
134:12 135:18
136:9,12 137:8
137:17,19
138:1 139:21
140:1,2,4,8,19
140:20,21
141:8,19 142:2
142:8 144:21
144:22 145:1,1
145:2,7 146:19
153:4,12,22
155:10,11,11
155:13,16,18
155:21 156:5
156:18 157:15
158:10,11,12
158:12,13,13
158:15 162:21
162:22 163:5
163:19 164:8
164:11 168:8
168:11,13

Meeting

[design - discussed]
169:22 170:15
173:19 174:1
177:10,11,11
177:12,12
designed 15:16
16:21 34:14
61:9 70:15
103:7
designer 32:8
127:2
designers
116:11
designing
63:14 64:13
65:19
designs 6:19,21
7:1,3,5 14:1
15:14,15,21
16:4,15,17
17:5,18,22
19:16 24:20
29:21 30:17
33:7 35:20
36:5,16 40:18
40:22 41:17
43:15 45:13,16
46:20,21 47:11
49:20 52:3
55:9,21 58:14
63:20 64:9
67:3 70:9,13
71:5,9 73:10
79:3,5 82:18
83:11 84:17
85:6 90:10,14
94:20 96:3,18
97:7,12 103:22
105:5,16

November 28, 2023

Page 16
106:22 109:22
110:19 118:21
119:18 122:7
125:2,6 126:20
127:5 128:11
129:6 131:9
132:6 135:13
139:11,13
140:17 141:2
143:12 144:9
146:17,20
149:10,11,20
152:10 153:17
156:6,10 158:7
159:14,15
160:12 161:14
162:7 163:20
163:22 165:14
165:18 167:6,8
167:21 170:10
173:16 179:12
184:8
desire 42:19
desk 42:17
despite 91:19
detail 38:8 61:6
81:6 112:16
detailed 38:18
135:22
details 132:18
detect 100:2
detract 172:18
develop 41:10
developed
42:22 126:3
developing
41:20

development
46:10
dial 48:10
diameter 75:21
76:1,4 77:7
dictionaries
148:8
difference 75:2
75:16 76:18
82:5 85:16
155:4 176:6
differences
75:14 77:4
178:17
different 18:8
22:3 38:17
52:6,18 58:16
65:16 74:19,21
80:22 81:2
86:14 108:6
110:2 151:10
153:19 159:17
160:12,12
161:4,19
169:20,20
170:21 171:8
174:12
differentiate
52:4
differently
81:13 171:10
difficult 65:2
91:18 101:7
140:16 142:10
182:4,6
difficulties
141:3

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

digging 118:13
digital 49:1
74:20 186:8
187:3
dignity 174:16
dimensional
85:6 86:2
136:14
dimensions
75:22 77:18
diminish
114:11
direction 26:12
58:20 84:6
142:5,15 170:7
171:2
directly 13:20
43:6
director 2:4
8:22 9:22
disagree 39:5
disassembly
125:19
disbanded
92:18
discern 142:14
discernible
143:18,19
disciplines
149:1
disconcerting
54:16
discretion
103:14 120:8
discuss 16:16
37:13
discussed 57:3
68:4 116:10

Meeting

[discussed - dr]
175:5
discussing
81:14 136:2
discussion 6:15
6:18,21,22 7:2
7:5 17:22
19:11 40:11
68:8 69:14
80:17 114:18
115:2,4 116:16
117:2 118:11
118:11 119:4
145:21 153:13
178:4,19
discussions
30:19 115:14
139:2
disorganized
115:16
display 129:14
disrespectful
171:19
disservice 56:4
distance
174:15,17
distinct 92:6
distinction
78:22 108:3
140:11 175:17
distinguish
42:1
distort 157:6
district 41:7
186:21
dive 38:8 167:2
diverge 24:20
diverse 179:10

November 28, 2023

Page 17
diversity 184:7
divided 16:14
92:5
dividing 126:8
division 92:12
93:9
document
147:21
documents
11:15
dodie 11:1
154:4,12,17
168:10 169:21
doing 21:16
49:5 58:6
79:10 89:21
95:7 106:6
131:19 134:9
154:15 182:12
dollar 41:3,4
44:15 55:12
70:15,16 71:2
71:20,22 72:4
72:7 75:13
139:20 143:20
147:2
dollars 127:4
donald 2:16
5:19 21:13
24:12,16 54:21
78:21 80:3
83:18 104:19
124:7 129:4
130:16 131:16
134:10 135:15
137:6 157:20
171:6 182:15

door 183:3
doors 44:20
dot 52:9
double 49:7
91:7 184:18,18
doubt 56:22
download 65:5
65:7,8
dr 1:5 4:10,11
4:13,14,19 5:7
5:7,9,10,13,13
5:15,16,19,22
6:3,3,5,6,9,10
7:14,21 8:2,5,7
8:10,13,16,19
8:22 9:4,7,11
9:14,21 10:2
11:20,21 12:1
12:5 17:19
18:14,16 19:21
20:7,8,12,13
20:15,16,17,20
20:21 21:13
23:13 25:17,18
26:20,22 27:17
28:8,9,10,11
28:11 29:8
30:9 31:2
32:20 33:1,5
33:13,15,18,20
34:11 35:2,5,6
36:3,4,8,10,14
36:18,20 37:2
37:3,4,7,14
39:2,20 40:3,5
40:6,7,8,9
46:22 47:1,6
47:22 48:3,4,5

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

48:7,16 49:12
49:17 50:6,15
50:16,17 51:11
51:12,12,18
52:15 53:19,19
53:21 54:2,20
56:7,10 57:1
57:10,11 59:22
60:2 62:17,18
63:1,2,4,4,5,7
63:16 64:1,3
65:21 67:2,11
67:13 68:1,6,8
68:10,14,19
69:4,10,15
70:4,8 73:11
73:15 74:5,8,9
74:10,10,18
75:4,7,9,19,20
76:12 77:8,10
77:19,22 78:9
78:12,12,21
79:19,21 80:10
80:16 81:18
82:12,13,13,19
82:21 83:8
84:4,11,14,18
84:19 85:1
86:5 87:4,12
88:3,11,13,19
88:21 89:5,8
89:11,17,19
90:2,5,8 97:16
100:9,13
101:17 102:2,4
102:9,21
103:10 104:22
105:1,1,11,20

Meeting

[dr - either]
107:2,2,4,4,5,7
107:13,15
109:5,19 110:6
110:8 111:2,11
111:12,15,18
112:15 113:1,2
114:14,15
116:1,6,14,15
117:5,9 118:2
118:7,9,15
119:12,15,20
119:22 120:4,5
120:10,14,17
120:18,19
121:5,10,13
122:1,6,13
123:3,18,21
124:5,6,7,9,11
124:12,15,16
124:17,19,21
129:1 130:12
130:14,14
131:6 132:11
133:11 135:8,8
135:10,10,11
136:19 137:15
138:2,11,13
139:3,7 141:17
143:5,10,13,14
143:15,15,22
144:7,8,16,18
145:4,8,10,14
145:18 146:12
146:15 154:11
156:7,22 157:1
157:19 159:1,3
159:3 160:15
160:17,19

November 28, 2023

Page 18
161:15 162:9
162:11,11,12
163:10,12
164:11,12,14
167:12,13
170:20 173:13
174:19 175:1
176:18 177:5
177:18,20
178:4,8 179:2
180:7,10 181:2
182:3,10,11
183:2,4,6,7,9
183:11 184:15
184:22 185:3,5
185:7,10
draft 42:8 43:8
48:14 174:9
draftsmanship
137:9
drapes 158:2
drastically
28:21
draw 25:13
79:4
drawing 111:4
111:6 164:3
drawn 57:20
92:12 134:1,10
135:6 137:6
163:19 170:18
175:3,7
draws 25:4,12
37:21
dream 45:8
dress 173:22
driven 126:6

drop 64:22
119:11
dropping 64:19
drove 42:20
du 93:4,6
due 43:5 51:8
88:22 92:18
duly 186:5
duplicate 22:12
duplicated
97:8
duplicating
22:10
duplication
175:14
duty 92:21
93:16
dye 82:3,4
dyes 82:1
dynamic
129:20 134:6
172:18
e
e 2:1,1 3:1,1
4:1,1
eagle 72:20,22
earlier 4:21
37:18 68:12
81:22 135:1
139:10 141:2
142:18 150:21
161:14
earliest 141:6
early 41:15
72:21 132:7
easier 83:15
104:6 131:10

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

141:15
easiest 164:21
easily 49:11
72:15
eat 55:4
echo 64:5
edge 71:4 72:6
72:9 82:10
85:18,19 111:3
edged 91:8
edit 139:15
edith 147:14
152:22
editor 7:12,13
educate 102:11
educates 50:22
educating
151:22
effect 164:4
effective 52:2
138:8
effectively 24:3
25:7 37:20
efficiency
18:19 125:21
effort 92:2
116:4
egalitarian
184:19
eiffel 16:6
26:15
eight 35:16
91:14 93:17
144:21
either 22:13
46:11 60:13
104:3 112:1
161:20 162:6

Meeting

[either - excellent]
163:20
elders 147:22
148:16
electronic
139:18
elegance 173:4
elegant 21:5
element 23:2
29:3,3 103:20
109:10 119:5
141:13 150:1
elements 16:3
24:9 38:17
94:13,16,18
100:16,19
102:1 105:4
109:9 115:6
139:12 142:3
142:13 159:15
160:5,12 162:1
173:21
eliminate
116:22
elm 169:1
else's 64:5
email 34:22
emblem 15:19
16:1,2 17:12
30:3
embodied
85:11 91:19
embodies 28:4
85:17 106:5
embrace 27:2
102:16
embracing
87:12

November 28, 2023

Page 19
empire 27:22
employed
186:11,14
187:8,11
employee
186:13 187:10
emulate 27:12
encourage
30:18,21 56:19
83:22
ended 13:3
endorse 20:19
68:11 85:4
132:22 133:4
endure 13:14
91:19
enemy 91:20
engage 25:5
engaged 135:5
180:20
engagement
179:18
engagements
108:7
engaging
153:10
engineer 42:6
45:1,1
engineering
42:10,18 60:8
engineers
42:19
england 92:13
english 92:17
148:17
engraved 81:22
82:3

engraver 8:17
17:15 29:2
30:16 46:17
70:15 84:20
85:2
engraver's
21:16 55:19
engraving 8:20
98:11
enjoy 13:21
enjoyable
40:14
enjoyed 12:21
55:1
ensure 68:5
153:9
entered 45:17
entertain 36:2
116:5
enthusiasm
26:19 164:16
entire 163:16
environment
74:21
envision 20:2
envisioning
171:17,18,22
envy 146:7
equivalent
17:14
eras 132:15,15
error 126:2
es 186:4
especially
57:17 61:8
106:6,16
120:22 130:6
136:2 166:21

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

essence 83:17
157:11
essential 109:9
essentially
78:14,19
135:19
established
25:2
establishment
69:21
ethnographic
147:18 149:8
european 93:1
evans 3:6 8:7,9
events 10:16
everybody 4:6
56:2 128:7
184:17
everybody's
22:13
everyday
126:14
everyone's
45:12
evocative
149:16
evolution 126:2
evolve 126:5
exact 74:22,22
134:13,19
exactly 38:22
168:1
example 16:5
16:13 23:22
104:1 133:8
165:8
excellent 162:7
182:19

Meeting

[except - feel]
except 76:22
88:14 140:4
exchange
179:10
excited 25:19
25:20 26:5
exciting 156:9
exclamation
96:10,15 98:20
99:4,9
excuse 11:2
50:16 105:14
executed 84:2
existed 90:21
169:3
exoticizing
165:12,13
expand 92:2
100:18
expect 31:5
expecting
74:19
experience
12:22 38:17
40:14 127:3
179:15 180:17
experiences
44:11
expert 153:19
expertise
149:18 167:22
experts 41:19
179:8
explain 132:20
explaining
171:8
explicitly 38:13
54:7

November 28, 2023

Page 20
exploration
156:10
exposed 91:20
express 12:16
25:14,14
expresses
131:22
expression
15:1
extend 13:8
extension
13:18
extensive 149:6
extraordinary
90:19
eye 19:14 39:15
135:19 136:6
137:6 178:15
178:15
f
fabulous 21:17
21:18
face 50:22 57:7
65:14 66:10
faces 49:18
72:2
facilitate 116:4
facility 60:19
fact 10:14 48:1
48:1 50:13
53:11 56:8
59:10 61:4,9
65:1 66:5 91:7
102:11 104:5,9
104:12 118:17
119:3 127:13
142:4 158:6

162:18 169:3
176:19 178:15
factors 61:16
fair 88:17
120:17
fairbairn 91:8
101:9 111:3
fairly 105:4
faithful 71:13
77:1
faithfully 71:7
fame 43:13,14
95:10
familiar 127:18
families 12:16
family 45:21
46:2,6 58:18
60:14 95:12
150:2,7,13,15
153:2,15,18
154:3 155:16
155:22 156:4,8
156:18 159:7
160:1 161:11
163:13 164:9
166:4,11
169:19 170:21
171:2 175:8,12
175:17 178:12
178:13
family's 51:3,9
51:14,20 63:19
177:22
famous 16:5
21:6
fantastic 24:20
53:8 138:20
182:12

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

far 45:9 55:12
129:20 137:1
168:2
fascination
23:3
fashioned 59:2
father 10:22
151:17 166:11
168:9,11
father's 152:6
favor 12:3 37:5
37:10 40:1
50:14 54:2
69:6 87:14
88:5,14 104:15
121:2,11
145:16 164:11
178:6 185:1,5
favored 48:1
104:16 141:19
favorite 23:10
67:21
favorites 58:18
fears 64:19
feasible 117:21
feat 50:8 93:4
feature 15:18
15:22 22:2
70:21 74:15,16
132:6 149:11
featured 15:20
features 21:6
featuring 21:8
federal 70:17
180:5
feed 58:21
feel 18:20
19:13 23:21

Meeting

[feel - foremost]
24:6 25:11,13
26:10 38:21
75:12 96:13
98:8,19 117:4
132:17 138:21
162:15 166:16
feeling 22:18
143:3
feelings 114:22
feels 38:4,6,15
134:8
fellow 10:10
146:2
felt 23:17 26:11
100:21 101:13
101:21 166:13
166:16,22
170:5
fence 83:10
fidelity 86:2
field 42:12
172:3
fields 179:9
fight 91:18
figure 55:6
130:21
figures 129:19
130:4 141:15
fill 42:19
final 15:18
finally 7:4 9:14
97:11 156:5
184:8
financial
126:11
financially
186:15 187:11

November 28, 2023

Page 21
find 21:5 39:6
62:8 75:13
80:13 81:4
133:8 135:1
159:10 162:7
175:3,7
finding 121:2
fine 17:3 24:18
33:17 46:7
54:9,18,19
60:12 71:6
94:21 114:8
140:5 155:18
finished 43:9
108:5
fire 91:20
firm 180:16
181:17
first 4:22 11:9
13:2,22 21:14
24:5 25:2 27:9
29:13 36:6,12
36:15,17 37:5
37:8,13 41:1
41:12 42:7,22
43:2,8 44:6
45:20 46:5
48:14 51:14,21
52:17 54:1
58:17 64:4,17
70:16,17,20
84:20 91:1,10
91:14,21,22
94:18 95:4
96:2,20 100:20
103:15 106:11
109:7 112:10
115:10,14

125:14 127:9
128:19 131:8
131:17 132:8
146:22 147:6,8
149:5 150:7
152:20 157:7
159:14,19
161:10 173:5
180:21
firsthand 38:4
fit 62:16
fits 129:8
fitted 127:6
five 16:22
22:16,18 34:22
35:2,3,14,17
50:2 67:9,9
89:7,11,13,19
89:20 90:1
128:17 131:22
140:19 144:13
144:14 145:1
176:22 177:2
fix 55:19
flag 14:18
151:14
flags 21:10
flat 76:19 86:1
flavor 78:18
flight 83:6
flip 82:22
flipping 116:9
117:12
florida 41:14
flow 83:16
flower 160:1
flowers 160:4
161:7

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

flowing 6:21
70:9,14,21
71:2,20
fluent 149:3
fluid 134:8
focus 11:5
140:19
focuses 150:6
folks 115:16
146:9 153:3,12
183:2,7,21
184:2,22
follow 59:20
71:1 73:19
followed
127:11 177:17
following 6:12
7:16 9:16
15:14 26:5
41:20 86:14
90:21 152:21
follows 72:9
font 120:3
165:16
fonts 165:9,9
165:13
footsteps 166:8
forcefully 99:3
ford 125:16
126:1,3,5
127:19 133:2
foregoing
186:3,4 187:4
foreground
48:21
foreign 166:2
foremost
103:15

Meeting

[forget - geographic]
forget 52:8
74:11 117:13
forgive 143:16
183:7
forgot 27:8
81:21
form 27:21
28:22 31:1
32:17
format 128:4
formation
92:18
formed 91:1
92:6,11,21
former 95:9
141:21 158:3
forms 28:3
129:11
forrest 92:19
forth 72:15
80:2
fortitude 91:18
forum 31:18,21
32:2
forward 6:9
32:21 33:21
56:19 73:9
106:7 121:3
128:21 153:12
fought 103:8
found 50:8
founder 7:12
112:9
four 16:20 21:5
22:15 24:16,17
26:11 29:16
35:13,14 46:21
60:4,9,10 61:5

November 28, 2023

Page 22

64:10,12 65:11
67:19,20
103:19 106:10
106:15,15,19
110:9 120:2
128:17 131:18
136:8,18 145:1
161:19 177:14
182:7,20
fourth 12:15
frame 170:10
framed 32:3
france 14:8
frankly 79:7
146:9 165:15
free 18:20
freedom 13:9
freedoms 13:21
french 15:10
91:13
fresh 21:19
friend 182:17
friendliest
118:1
friendly 68:14
86:12 87:6
116:17,21
117:8,9 118:2
118:10 120:10
121:6,9 145:11
145:13
friends 12:16
frigate 43:9
58:7 60:16
61:2,8
front 61:15
129:15

fruit 149:20
175:12
fulfill 66:4
full 85:14
104:5
fuller 2:8 5:7,9
20:16,17 28:9
28:11,11 50:15
50:16 63:4,5
74:8,10,10,18
75:4 82:13
107:3,4,5
124:11,12
135:9,10,12
143:13,15,15
144:7 162:11
162:12 183:4,7
fully 85:7,12,18
86:3 106:13
180:1
fun 146:7
function 75:1
85:9
functionally
85:19
fundamental
20:22
fundamentally
132:21
further 29:9
38:12 39:3,20
40:10 69:5,12
75:15 100:9
102:4 111:16
117:2 118:11
118:11 119:12
121:7 145:14
145:20 167:14

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

176:20 186:13
187:9
future 30:17
73:19 107:12
g
g 4:1
games 6:16
10:12 14:11,13
14:14,18,22
15:2,4,12,12
16:22 29:18,20
34:15
garand 111:22
garb 23:5
garde 28:3
garment 174:6
gather 12:16
gear 41:22
general 2:2,6
2:10 5:5,11
6:10 17:22
21:15 28:5
93:8,11 98:22
164:5 166:19
generally 82:7
105:4
generated 42:8
generation
29:16 153:8
generations
147:20
generic 133:9
genres 28:16
gentleman
184:16
geographic
116:9

Meeting

[geometric - great]
geometric
129:11 130:10
gesture 176:1,4
getter 145:3
giant 54:14
giants 55:2
gift 14:21
gilkes 7:13
girl 161:7
give 24:10,13
27:3 51:8 87:2
97:9 136:8
182:2
given 18:18
43:7 57:6
120:21
gives 32:2
135:19 136:5
162:14 176:20
giving 146:1
glad 59:3 64:8
gladly 116:20
gladys 59:13
59:15 62:2
glance 24:5
globe 54:15
glorify 27:13
gm 133:2
go 17:11 22:10
31:13 32:21
37:9 51:9 60:1
61:7 63:11
71:19 72:14
74:20 78:8
79:13,14,20
80:6 84:20
97:7 105:19
118:4,5 119:15

November 28, 2023

Page 23
125:9 128:11
130:9,10
135:16 138:10
140:11 141:7
154:19 157:9
157:13,18
161:10,10,11
162:17 163:2,4
169:4 180:10
184:18
goddess 16:8
30:1
goes 45:8 64:16
111:5 128:4
172:11
going 21:15
22:8,9,13,18
22:20 26:13
31:9 32:16
33:21 34:22
38:18 56:19
63:6 65:17
66:18 74:3
76:20,20 77:11
77:11 79:13
80:2,6,14 81:1
81:22 83:10,20
85:13 88:15,15
103:18 104:15
104:18 118:21
123:5,15
129:12,13
130:4 137:21
137:22 138:10
138:17 140:3
142:9,10,11
154:7 161:10
168:3,4 171:3

171:13,15
173:1,19
176:21 180:9
gold 6:22 7:2
10:6,7 32:15
39:9 70:10,19
71:3,5,21 72:5
72:8,19 76:7,9
77:11,15 80:2
83:19,22 89:22
90:6,11,17
94:3,12,14
95:13 104:21
109:11,13,17
114:20 119:8,9
golden 147:2
good 4:2,7,10
4:14 12:1
21:21,21 22:19
34:8 35:8,22
59:7 64:15
79:13 88:19
89:2,4 90:8
123:21 132:3
139:9 140:20
146:13 152:16
158:12,12,13
169:9 176:12
goodwill 15:1
gotten 54:8
government
9:8 70:17
132:22
governors 41:9
41:15
graciously
155:2

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

graduated
42:12
graduating
42:9
graffiti 27:12
27:14,15,20
28:1,1,17,20
grand 61:3
grandchildren
168:9
granddaughter
10:21 11:1
154:13
granddaught...
156:19
grandest 62:11
grandmother
148:13 151:2,5
151:13,13
154:21 159:20
168:14 170:3
grandmother's
166:8
grandness 61:8
62:12
grant 30:4
graphic 62:11
gratefully
117:7
gratitude 12:14
12:16 13:8
great 10:21
19:18 33:19
44:6 50:18,20
51:1,2 55:11
55:17,18 62:3
63:19 64:7,19
70:5 79:2 95:7

Meeting

[great - head]
107:10 128:7
135:13 136:16
140:8 151:1,5
151:13,19
153:11 159:20
166:8 168:14
184:6,16
greater 172:6,7
172:10
greatly 130:22
greek 18:11
greeting
136:22
greg 3:3 9:4
34:5,18,21
35:7 67:7,12
132:19 144:11
144:17 145:4
176:22 177:6
177:18
grew 44:9
169:7
grid 51:22
grittiness 29:4
grouchy 27:10
groundbreaki...
43:12 48:13
grounded
110:3
grounds 26:5
group 7:12
12:4 37:6,11
40:2 44:8 69:7
88:7 95:9
115:16 121:12
145:17 159:5
163:15,22,22
163:22 164:4

November 28, 2023

Page 24
178:7 181:11
185:6
grouping 21:17
groups 100:17
115:21
growing 62:6
guess 63:5
65:15 78:5
82:15,17
118:18 173:8
guided 66:3
guidelines 68:5
gun 111:22
112:2,8,12
guy 129:14
guys 95:7
110:3 183:16
h
h 98:5
hair 6:21 70:10
70:15,22 71:2
71:20 159:22
161:6,8
halena 11:2
152:13,14,17
153:16
half 44:21
180:15
hall 43:13,14
95:10
hanchock 3:7
8:10,12 97:1,4
hand 4:13
32:21 46:11
48:6 49:8
68:17 75:8
84:21 88:16

90:5 111:5
142:15 160:21
165:22 175:11
175:21 176:5,8
176:11,17
183:4
handing 38:2
handoff 15:3
handover 6:16
10:13 14:14,22
15:3,9,16
34:15 40:15
hanover 14:3
happen 29:18
30:11
happened 26:8
45:10 64:12
131:13 134:15
happening
134:6,8 143:4
happens
165:14
happy 20:8,9
20:13 51:13
56:10 69:2
94:22 105:2,9
152:7 165:3
harassed 181:2
181:3
harcourt 2:8
5:7 20:15,17
28:10 63:2,5
82:12 107:5
124:11 135:11
143:14,22
162:10,12
183:3

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

hard 152:2
154:22 155:7
182:2
harlan 167:17
harman 10:21
150:18,20
151:4 159:11
166:6 169:18
173:14 175:18
178:20
hate 81:8
118:22 181:12
hawaii 148:11
150:21 151:9
151:20 152:16
166:9 174:7
hawaii's
149:21
hawaiian 11:5
147:8,13,16,19
147:20,22
148:1,6,8,9,12
148:13,16,18
148:19,20
149:3,14,19,19
149:22 150:6
150:21 151:14
151:15 152:18
153:5 161:7,9
165:21 166:1
169:10
hawaiians
147:5,12 149:3
152:5
hazard 43:8
60:17,21
head 46:9
47:10,12 54:11

Meeting

[head - horrible]
54:17 68:4
76:5 82:7
174:17
headed 49:7
hear 4:7 17:17
44:4 53:3 63:7
123:14 139:1,6
146:2 151:2
154:10
heard 29:10
50:21 97:20
110:22 123:11
156:17 167:16
184:18
hearing 11:9
11:16 12:2,6
18:17 25:22
34:12 39:21
49:14 69:5,13
87:14 121:10
121:14 141:18
143:10 145:15
145:19 151:13
156:12 174:10
178:5,9
heart 155:3
hearts 12:11
hearty 182:11
heavily 180:20
heavy 38:18
91:20
height 43:6
held 39:15
helm 183:12,15
184:8
helmet 104:2
help 120:15
156:9

November 28, 2023

Page 25
helps 62:21
107:18
henry 127:19
heraldic 72:22
hereto 186:15
187:11
heritage 9:22
10:1 43:22
95:14 151:16
152:5 166:3
179:17
heroic 92:22
hesitation
164:16
hi 154:5
hibiscus 159:22
160:3 161:4,6
161:7,8,12
168:22 169:2,3
169:6
hibiscuses
169:6
high 35:11,20
42:9 67:18
77:11,15 83:19
136:8 145:3
177:9
highest 35:9
134:11 172:2
highland 126:4
highlight 14:19
50:17
highlights 51:7
highly 91:4
135:1 182:15
hired 42:16
historians
179:9

historical 85:4
179:13
historically
42:14
histories 149:8
history 2:12
5:14 11:5
13:13 49:19
51:8 95:14
150:6 152:18
169:14
hits 61:22
157:18
ho 55:17
hoard 2:10
5:10,12 23:16
36:12 37:12,16
37:17 47:9,10
47:14 53:22
68:2,2,16
81:20 82:4
105:21,22
113:3,3,12,16
113:21 114:13
117:11,16,20
120:13 122:20
123:1 124:13
124:13,14
133:13,14
145:6,13
161:17,18
174:21 175:2,2
hoc 93:4,6
hold 150:13
holding 24:19
50:7 162:1,4,6
holds 12:11

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

hole 118:14
hollywood 16:8
homage 13:1
78:14,19
home 181:16
183:8
homeland
151:20
honest 23:3
60:13
honestly 59:17
honolulu 148:3
169:1
honor 44:12
70:22 107:9
128:4 146:6
147:7 151:6
154:14 179:7
honored 41:9
44:15 48:20
147:8 151:4
152:1
honoree 156:21
honoring 6:20
7:4 9:17,20
40:19 41:5
67:4 125:3
144:10
hope 12:20
30:18 55:22
hopefully 4:6
44:3 95:17
153:2
horizon 54:14
horizontal
31:22 32:2
horrible 32:18
55:21

Meeting

[host - included]
host 14:12,12
14:15,20 29:20
hosting 14:8,9
15:5
hot 61:7
hour 56:16
89:3 123:8
hours 43:10
48:14 126:8
house 2:9,13
5:8 6:7 33:10
155:12,15
158:18 169:2,5
houses 149:6
hudnell 10:7
94:2,6,7 98:3
99:11,17,21
100:16,20
101:18 102:6,8
108:11 110:11
110:22 111:8
112:4,21
113:10,13
115:3 121:17
122:2
hued 147:2
huge 55:13
59:3,5
huh 4:11 77:9
hula 148:15
hum 55:18
human 138:22
humanity
137:12
humor 56:9
hundell 118:5
118:8 119:4

November 28, 2023

Page 26
husband 62:2
hyde 187:2,16
i
idar 162:14
idea 21:10
133:16 135:14
136:2 166:1
181:21
ideas 57:16
98:1 167:19
179:10 184:7
identifiable
133:7
identified
16:18,21 17:1
17:4,5 155:11
155:14
identify 66:15
93:10
identity 27:19
165:12
idiosyncrasies
82:11
idiosyncrasy
80:8
ii 7:1 10:6
89:22 90:6,11
90:18,19,22
94:4,11,15
97:2,6 98:7
99:10,19 100:2
101:15 103:9
107:17,22
108:3 109:15
110:12 112:4
113:8,22 114:4
115:7 116:12

116:22 122:11
illusion 22:18
illustrate 129:9
image 20:1
51:6 53:1,4,9
53:12,18 54:2
55:15 58:22
59:7,18 61:21
62:12,15 71:16
71:19 72:17
101:1 129:21
135:2 157:3
imagery 21:6
38:12
images 52:18
57:8 106:4
immediately
61:11
immersed
38:22
immersive
23:20
imperfections
83:16
implied 172:11
implore 181:20
importance
12:19 57:17
179:16
important
13:18 22:2
23:1 57:14,19
60:6 99:4
101:14,22
127:16 147:2
149:22 166:13
169:16 170:22
176:6

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

impressed 95:7
improved
60:10
inaudible
18:18 31:16
32:17 47:5
49:19 56:20,22
62:4 76:10,19
77:10 84:10,15
87:11 102:17
104:5 108:4,18
108:19 110:21
121:9 127:1,9
127:20,21,21
128:2,7 133:12
140:4,6,16
141:5,9,14
146:6,7,8,11
151:6 152:6
160:11 166:10
166:11,12
168:2,16 174:3
176:2,12,16
178:10,20,22
179:20
inch 15:16 24:2
32:12,14 38:7
163:18
inches 76:4
include 16:4
46:11,12
120:12 147:4
165:18 170:8
173:21
included 71:4
114:10 116:8
120:8

Meeting

[includes - interviewed]
includes 6:12
71:12
including 16:5
113:5 120:6
121:2,4 138:22
147:13 148:15
149:7 179:9
inclusion
147:15 156:20
164:7
incorporate
18:9 105:3
incorporated
100:18
increased
126:12
incredible 42:3
184:15
incuse 72:5,8
171:13,15,17
independence
151:11
indian 11:4
150:6 155:20
156:2,2,5
indians 147:4
152:19 155:20
indicate 7:17
33:22
indicates 77:6
109:13
indifferent
82:14,18,22
indigenous
147:3
indirectly
13:20

indistinguish...
140:1
individuals
184:7
inducted 43:12
infancy 154:21
infant 147:6
infantry 91:6
92:12 93:9
102:22 103:4
infantryman
101:16
influence
172:19
influenced
127:17
information
46:18 85:2
125:8,9 153:3
166:18
initial 91:3
173:16
initially 157:2
159:13
injuries 126:10
innovation
6:19,20 7:3,4
9:17,18,20,20
40:18,19 41:3
41:5 47:4
55:12 56:15,20
57:6 60:8 66:1
66:5,16 67:4,4
125:2,3 131:13
133:16 134:14
134:17,20
143:1 144:10
144:10 179:14

November 28, 2023

Page 27
innovative
39:15
innovator 42:4
42:6 66:1
innovators
41:6 57:4,5,17
input 15:13
29:5 138:15
146:3
inscribed 71:4
inscription
72:1,12 73:1,2
73:4 97:6,9
149:12,14
inscriptions
43:15 71:2
75:5 76:22
77:3 97:21
109:2 117:12
126:15 149:13
insight 58:5
62:20 146:1
163:14
insignia 104:2
inspiration
45:3
inspirational
59:16 63:15
inspire 44:10
45:9 59:16
inspiring
183:20
instrument
103:5,8
insult 59:11
integral 96:14
126:13 136:11

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

integrated 59:4
integrity 32:5,7
114:11
intellectual
133:6
intention 76:10
intentional
112:13
interaction
141:12
interchange
141:12
interest 79:8
interested
186:15 187:12
interesting
24:18 25:10,11
27:18 40:13
54:4 62:9 64:7
106:9 133:10
134:12 151:7
151:12 158:9
interestingly
24:9 54:7
intergovernm...
2:5 9:1,9
interject
173:14
internally 74:1
international
14:16,17 30:13
internet 50:6
77:5
interpretations
80:4
interviewed
149:3

Meeting

[intrigued - kind]
intrigued 38:11
134:4 158:7
intriguing
39:16 156:9
introduce 5:2
40:21 45:14
47:2 70:12
90:13 94:1
125:5 146:19
150:3,8 154:4
154:8
introduced
14:6 125:17
introduction
44:7
invalidate
172:20
invaluable
69:17
invention
164:2
inverting 109:1
invest 141:2
invite 94:6
150:7
inviting 94:8
involved
133:22 137:5
179:13 181:21
182:9
involvement
142:6,7
islands 92:17
issuance 83:4
issue 41:4
48:17 59:9
74:2 78:16
115:2,13

November 28, 2023

Page 28
139:17 143:17
issued 99:1
issues 11:7
48:8 49:14
73:19 83:14
106:14 147:1
176:19
item 18:4
items 59:5
j
january 42:4
jennifer 2:4 4:3
7:8 8:22 34:20
88:20 123:7
jimmie 10:9
94:4 95:3
97:19
job 1:22 21:21
21:21 42:22
95:7 132:3
144:4 146:7
182:12
joe 18:6 21:21
27:17 31:12
47:16 48:16
51:15 52:8
57:1,12 66:19
74:17 132:11
132:12 143:7
143:16,21
171:10 173:8
joe's 86:13
john 2:13 6:6
26:20 33:5,15
48:7 64:3
68:17,19 75:7
75:9 80:16

83:18 84:21
86:6 105:11,12
124:19 131:7
132:12,13
142:16 160:17
160:18
john's 85:9
join 14:16
182:6
joined 9:15
joining 156:8
jonathan 55:1
jone 62:3
joseph 8:16
48:19 76:16
171:22
jovita 162:14
judge 9:18
126:18,18
145:22
judged 110:3
jump 154:9
jumped 19:15
june 112:10
justice 10:4
43:20
jutting 171:16
k
k.'oko'a 151:9
kakahiaka
152:16
kanaka'ole
147:14
kanaka.ole
152:22
kapuni 11:2
152:13,15,17

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

154:1,6,16
karat 70:19
71:20
kawena 10:21
11:1 147:7,12
147:16 149:12
154:13 155:17
155:22
ke 165:11,16
169:9,11,17
174:16
keep 19:7
21:16 37:19
keeping 123:7
148:12,19
kellen 2:10
5:10 23:15
25:22 37:17
47:9 53:21
68:2 81:19
105:20,21
113:2,3 124:13
133:12,13
161:16,17
174:20 175:2
kenao 147:14
152:22
kept 133:18
181:11
keyboard 59:2
139:18
kid 60:21
kind 19:13
21:18 22:8
23:3,9,22 24:3
24:11,17 28:13
29:4 30:17
32:6 37:22

Meeting

[kind - lasted]
38:8,15,18
49:1 54:14
59:9 61:11
65:12,14,16
82:6 83:4
85:10,21
105:22 106:19
114:4 115:21
131:17,22
133:17,21
134:5,21,21
135:4 139:12
139:17 140:11
140:18 141:1,6
146:6 151:19
157:22 158:5
160:6,11,11
161:4 166:7,20
167:22 168:12
171:16 173:17
174:9 175:14
175:18,20
176:4,11
kink 140:18
klann 125:16
klann's 126:1
knew 181:9
knife 91:8
101:9 110:17
111:3,3,6,8
know 4:6 17:14
22:16,17,20
23:1,5,8,9,10
23:17 24:1,7
28:18 30:6,14
30:20,22 37:19
37:22 38:3
40:13 50:20

November 28, 2023

Page 29
51:7 54:8,10
55:3,5,7,11,12
55:14,15,20
56:2,3,12 59:2
59:11,14 60:17
60:18,18,22
61:20 63:21
65:6 72:14
74:2 76:5,7
78:8 79:3,4,8,9
79:11,16,17
80:14 81:12
97:13,19 104:3
106:2 108:5,8
110:12,15,16
110:19 112:8
112:20 113:8
117:3 127:7
128:2 129:10
129:11,19,20
129:22,22
130:1,3,3,5,8,9
130:10 131:14
135:14 136:1,3
136:3,4,5,9,13
137:4 140:17
140:22 141:13
153:19 154:21
155:3,3 158:1
158:5,7,8,11
158:15,17,19
158:19,20
159:9 161:5,7
161:8 162:2,13
162:19,20
163:8 164:8,17
164:18,20
165:1,20 166:1

166:2,22 168:4
168:18 169:7
169:15,17,21
171:8,9,14,16
173:3,4,7,9,11
173:18 174:12
175:3,11,20
176:13,14
180:1,15,18,18
180:19,19
181:1,4,10,12
181:13,16,22
181:22 182:7
183:8,13,14,17
184:5
knowledge
30:2 147:20
149:19,19
151:22 168:17
174:15 186:10
187:6
known 93:20
153:6 160:2
180:20
kudo 22:15,15
kukui 149:21
149:22 174:7
kumu 165:11
165:17 169:9
169:11,17
174:16
kupuna 174:4
l
l 151:9
la 15:19 17:12
21:3 26:16
28:18 30:4,8

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

35:20,20
la'akea 154:9
154:17
lacks 161:21
laid 38:13
land 55:2
landing 93:8
100:3,4,5
101:2,2,6
104:9 108:12
108:13 118:3
landings 100:2
100:21 101:4
101:19 104:10
110:10
landmarks
16:6
language
147:19 148:1,6
148:19,20
149:4 155:1
165:22 166:2
166:22 167:3,3
175:6
languages
166:21
large 61:3
142:3
largely 106:10
larger 108:1
larry 180:19
181:10,11
182:16
laser 81:22
82:2
lasted 44:21
134:20

Meeting

[late - line]
late 46:9 65:3
latency 65:10
launch 152:21
laurel 72:20
law 41:2 90:16
147:9 180:16
181:17
lawrence 1:5
2:2 6:10
124:21
layer 172:4,14
lead 93:12,13
96:10 98:21
99:2 101:8
107:22 108:4
leader 2:16
5:17,20 6:7
112:5,6 182:19
leaders 184:1
leadership
182:21
leading 104:5
104:10 106:5
111:21
league 94:16
lean 21:4 26:1
29:22 80:14
141:19 142:5
156:17 171:2
leaned 168:12
leaning 52:7
84:6 142:14
learn 42:21
51:1 63:20
64:6,8 167:3
169:9
learned 64:8,17
95:8 148:15

November 28, 2023

Page 30
learning 50:20
159:12
leave 56:17
131:4
leaves 149:21
153:10 163:21
leaving 120:20
ledanski 187:2
187:16
left 103:1 114:6
157:14
legacy 45:8
149:17 153:10
legal 9:4 17:21
28:2 47:7 48:8
49:13 74:6
100:11,14
129:2 156:11
legislation 66:3
legislative 2:4
9:1,9
legs 73:17
lei 149:22
161:22 162:2
174:1,6 175:10
176:7
length 39:15
lens 38:1
letter 6:13
11:11,17 12:7
85:8
lettering 52:4,5
52:7 85:18,19
107:20 109:15
163:5 174:12
letters 85:5,13
98:6,11 167:4

levels 184:4
liaison 2:5 4:3
7:8 9:2 48:1
94:14 123:9
126:17 128:13
128:20 133:20
136:22 137:18
141:19
liaison's 96:4,5
96:17,19,20
104:20 106:11
107:6,16
128:15,18,19
129:22 136:17
liaisons 9:16
10:11,19 16:18
16:21 17:1,5
29:6,9 41:19
89:1 94:1
96:13 97:8,14
100:15 105:19
106:3 108:5
109:8 110:17
111:19 114:16
114:20 118:19
119:2 120:22
121:16 138:15
139:1 150:2
163:13 164:10
165:17 166:4
179:21
liberty 71:15
72:1,2 77:14
77:17
library 83:12
lieutenant
104:3

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

life 53:11
126:14 127:2
149:17 180:17
182:5
lifetime 56:15
58:8 61:14
lifeways 147:22
lifting 141:9
light 47:22
74:22 91:5
133:22
lighter 74:12
74:14
lighting 75:2
liked 21:8 24:4
26:4 127:12
133:14 138:20
138:21 157:21
159:16 160:4
161:19
likely 15:18
95:22 96:2
likeness 159:21
168:14 175:5
likes 158:1
lilliputian
47:21 55:20
limited 134:21
line 125:11,12
125:13,17,19
126:3,6 127:6
127:14,15,16
129:10,21
130:18 131:22
133:16 135:15
135:18,20
136:3 137:19
137:22 138:9

Meeting

[line - lunch]
139:14 140:11
140:21,22
141:5,10,13
142:19,20
143:4
linearly 114:3
lines 86:15
129:19,21
130:3 164:17
176:7
list 101:22
147:13
listed 100:22
listen 54:22
55:22 183:2,15
184:1
listened 97:20
109:8
listening 95:6
157:22 173:9
listens 182:18
listing 115:8
literal 31:19
32:5 48:22
literally 18:10
109:1 149:15
literature
166:17
little 10:5
17:14 24:17,21
26:1,2 42:5
43:21 49:4,5
52:9 54:1,13
54:16,18 55:2
64:14 74:21
83:5 107:21
129:12,14,19
131:10,15

November 28, 2023

Page 31
132:4 138:5
141:15 149:10
158:14 165:8
166:15 168:21
169:4,9 171:9
173:21 176:16
live 4:22
129:12
lived 168:22
170:3
lives 12:17
153:9
living 102:16
102:18
liz 47:3
location 99:7
99:22 117:13
locations 100:1
100:5 101:20
108:13,14,17
116:10 175:15
log 33:11
logic 172:17
logo 32:3 140:8
london 29:19
long 23:11 45:8
134:20
longed 42:10
look 20:3 22:7
24:6 25:4,8
39:8 49:9 54:3
54:15 55:20
58:5 59:10
61:20 63:12
64:15 66:13
76:20,21 80:20
81:11 105:16
111:2 112:18

129:13,13
130:2,4 137:20
141:14,15
149:15 153:12
153:17 160:3
163:6 165:7,19
168:3 169:11
169:15 182:2
183:16
looked 59:13
80:21 115:15
119:17,17
132:9 137:18
139:22 141:6
152:4 168:14
176:14
looking 22:5
23:21 24:17
53:12 54:14
61:14 75:12
99:15 136:4
139:13,18
140:10 141:5
150:16 157:14
166:15 171:9
174:14,16
looks 23:4 26:6
26:7,13 52:14
52:20 53:10
54:14 55:4
59:7,13 60:15
61:22 79:14
86:16,21
108:22 129:17
135:4,20
136:13,13
159:20 160:20

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

loop 129:16
142:11,13
lore 148:20
los 6:16 10:12
14:2,10 16:4,7
21:3 26:3,9,13
26:16,17 27:11
29:18,19 30:4
34:15
lose 32:7
118:22
loss 55:8
lost 33:14
55:13 147:21
lot 21:20 26:4
26:19 44:17
53:15 61:6
63:15 64:6
79:3,3 83:15
95:8 112:5
127:13 139:9
151:8 156:16
157:5 159:6
166:7 169:12
170:10 173:18
183:12,16
184:4,4
love 62:1 129:6
129:11 151:21
161:7,13
163:17 165:15
loved 159:18
low 77:16
lowered 14:18
lunch 88:22
123:5,8

Meeting

[m1 - medal]
m
m1 111:22
144:20
m1-02 127:11
m1-05 127:11
m1-06 127:10
127:12
machinery
134:5
machines 59:5
made 13:5
17:11 19:8
31:21 51:2
66:16 81:15
82:15 85:17
86:19 93:18
100:1 103:18
107:11 125:12
142:22 147:3
155:4 166:14
170:12,22,22
182:3
main 59:9
76:17 81:4
mainstream
28:16
maintain 78:15
81:3 82:10
major 15:2
42:10 50:8
94:8 102:7
103:20 104:3
majority 2:15
5:17
make 16:1
17:14 19:14
22:9 27:8 31:9

November 28, 2023

Page 32
31:12 33:22
34:8 45:17
48:2 49:4,9
55:17 68:21
69:2 81:14
83:13 84:12
85:19 87:11
96:8 97:22
102:11 108:2
108:12 109:17
111:9 120:2
122:9,15 129:6
140:16 142:21
153:3 158:9
164:22 165:1
165:11 170:13
182:8 184:17
makers 142:21
makes 25:4,5,7
38:21 58:7
66:14 76:17
81:11 104:6
108:18 130:9
making 35:11
67:17 79:11
83:2 145:3
181:6,7
man 27:10
135:3 183:10
management
2:22 7:19 14:5
40:21 70:11
90:13 125:4
146:19
manager 3:2,4
3:5,6,7,8 7:22
8:3,5,8,11,14
8:19 10:8,17

77:6 94:2 97:2
manifested
85:5
manifests
85:10
marines 45:7
mark 42:1
70:20 96:15
99:9 122:21
marking 13:3
marks 15:3
136:8
mary 10:21
11:1 147:7,12
147:16 149:11
154:13 155:17
155:22
maryland
60:22 62:5
mass 125:14
massachusetts
151:18 152:7
master 82:3,4
match 76:11
159:18
material 59:6
materials
148:2
matter 153:18
matters 12:8
81:2
matthew 1:21
186:2,20
mayor 14:19
14:19 38:3,3
mayors 14:15
mean 4:3 21:2
21:19 32:16,18

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

44:13 48:11
53:10 55:5
64:11 65:17
66:9,10 79:7
80:21 118:12
137:20 142:2,2
142:18 158:12
160:22 171:19
172:9 173:7
180:11 181:15
184:5
meaningful
63:9,9
means 35:9
44:13 66:11
67:14 144:19
169:11
meant 27:12
152:3,4
meat 136:4
mechanical
42:13
mechanized
137:12
medal 6:15,16
6:22 7:2 10:6,8
14:2 20:3 25:1
25:13 26:4,7
31:5 32:15
34:14 37:21
38:7,22 39:9
39:11 70:10,19
70:21 71:3,21
72:5,19 89:22
90:7,11,17
94:3,12,14,17
101:14 104:21
108:17 109:13

Meeting

[medal - mint]
109:17,22
113:14 114:7
115:6 119:8
163:18 179:12
medallion 6:17
10:13 14:3,21
15:3 21:1,8,9
21:11 31:6
34:15
medallions
15:9,16 39:1
medals 15:7,15
15:18 19:8
95:13 109:12
114:21 119:8
119:10 132:14
179:16
media 7:12,13
meet 47:11
60:20
meeting 1:2
4:15,21 7:10
9:16 13:17
73:8 87:3 94:9
95:1 133:15
180:4 183:17
meetings 6:14
11:12
meets 68:5
106:20,21
megan 3:2 7:21
member 18:22
50:18 127:2
137:3 150:14
158:3,4 180:20
180:21 182:22
members 5:2
7:9 18:20 27:6

November 28, 2023

Page 33
29:10 35:9
67:14 89:4,5,8
95:12 100:10
103:12 111:17
141:21 142:12
143:6 144:19
154:3 166:4
174:20 177:9
179:20 180:13
181:8 182:2,6
memorial 16:7
20:4
memorialized
93:4
memories
53:15 62:7
men 13:5 93:15
men's 14:5
menacing 55:6
55:6
menna 8:16,18
16:11 18:7,15
27:17,18 31:15
31:16 32:14
48:18,19 51:15
52:10 57:2
67:1 74:18
75:5 76:15,16
77:13,20 82:2
113:19 114:2
132:12,12
143:21,21
171:18,21,22
172:9 173:2
184:12
mention 81:21
mentioned
37:18 44:17

62:2 98:22
100:16 102:6
119:6 140:6
141:21 157:10
mentions 153:5
merit 135:13
meritorious
43:11
merits 122:21
message 138:5
met 49:7
109:10 181:9
metals 114:9
method 91:3
methods 82:16
mic 44:3
michael 2:14
5:16 8:19
39:22 124:9
michigan 7:4
9:18,19 41:13
123:9 125:3
126:16,17,22
127:4,20
144:10,20
michigan's
125:10
mid 138:20
144:1
middle 18:5
127:18,21
midst 134:9
mike 7:11 9:11
19:21,22 20:9
36:3,4 52:15
52:16 58:2
66:19 73:16
76:1,3 77:14

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

78:2,4 79:16
83:8,9 87:2,8
108:21 109:19
109:20 120:1
138:2,3 143:6
156:22 157:2
157:22 158:1
mike's 39:18
milestone 15:2
military 13:17
91:4 108:7
116:2 183:10
miller's 32:17
millimeters
76:13 77:7
million 13:16
mind 33:18
44:2 61:16
177:10 183:18
mine 59:14
minimal 71:1
minimum
103:6
minority 2:13
2:16 5:20 6:7
57:17
mint 1:11 4:3,4
7:8,16 11:6
15:5,7,13
19:18 41:4,8
41:18 69:22
70:18 71:1,5,8
79:2,6 83:4
84:3 86:16
87:2 88:16
111:12 120:21
146:10 166:18
179:21

Meeting

[mint's - move]
mint's 70:11
90:12 125:4
146:19
mintage 70:20
minted 63:22
minting 70:17
mints 40:20
147:1
minute 34:22
67:9,9 89:7,11
89:19,20 111:5
minutes 6:13
11:11,17 12:7
35:2,3 89:14
90:1 126:8
144:13,14
176:22 177:3
misogyny
42:11
missed 21:22
missions 91:13
92:22 93:2
misunderstood
117:6
mix 159:18
mobile 136:11
model 60:22
126:3,7 131:14
132:7,8,9,19
moderated 1:5
modern 22:4
22:21 24:9
26:10 30:14
38:15 82:16,16
84:8 144:1
modernizing
85:14

November 28, 2023

Page 34
modifications
68:3 83:13
modified
145:12
modify 31:10
mohalo 150:22
152:7 154:15
169:17 175:19
moment 58:9
69:15 150:12
165:21 178:18
moments 179:4
momentum
38:16
money 79:18
142:22
monitor 59:3
montague 10:2
10:2 42:3,4
43:10,17,18
44:1,3,6,9
46:15 48:19
49:17 50:6
52:17,17 53:3
53:7,19,20
57:21 58:4,9
58:13 59:21,22
60:1,2,12
62:10,18,19
63:3,7,17 64:2
64:9 68:13
69:16 70:1,6
montague's
49:4 52:5
month 12:22
13:10 43:7
50:10 107:10

months 29:16
moot 80:19
81:4
moran 2:14
5:16,18 19:20
19:22,22 35:22
36:4,5,15,22
52:16,16 53:6
69:9 73:13,16
73:16 78:3,4,5
83:9,9 84:10
84:12,16 87:18
87:22 109:20
109:20 116:17
116:21 117:3
118:13 119:21
120:1,1 124:9
124:10 138:3,3
157:1,2 182:14
morgan 85:16
morning 4:2,14
35:8 88:1 90:9
90:9 95:6
123:4 151:1
152:16
mosaics 18:12
mother 50:7
52:18 53:1,5
59:16 61:10
62:5 66:8
motion 11:16
12:2 36:2,6,6,9
36:13,14,15,17
36:19,22 37:5
37:8,9,13,13
39:3,19,21,22
40:10 68:1,9
68:15 69:5,12

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

84:10,11,12,15
84:20 86:6,7
86:12 87:7,8
87:13,15,17
88:4,5,14
116:5,15,16
118:1,9 120:6
121:6,7,15
122:10 126:6
129:6 134:6
138:7,16 145:9
145:15 178:5
180:6,8 185:1
motions 27:6
40:10 69:13
111:16 143:6
145:5,20
177:19
motor 125:16
motto 93:14
96:11,14 98:21
101:8 106:5
108:4 171:14
move 6:9 16:17
23:15 36:5
45:12,19 50:15
66:18 68:3
73:9 78:10
84:16 87:19
88:21 89:15
90:5,9 96:2
97:7 99:14
104:18,19
106:18 116:7
121:3 124:22
145:6 146:15
152:10 153:16
153:21 155:10

Meeting

[move - noncommissioned]
177:21
moved 42:15
123:8 125:20
movement
26:12 127:14
moves 11:18
128:21
moving 72:11
72:17 75:14
96:16,17 97:10
108:7 109:14
125:11,22
126:2 155:21
mu'umu'u
170:14
multi 176:7
multiple
147:10
murals 30:5
museum 9:22
11:4 43:22
148:2,22 149:6
150:5 152:19
156:20 161:5
161:11 164:8
165:4 170:5,7
170:9,17
music 28:17
149:7
muster 115:17
116:1
muted 75:10
86:9,10 105:12
139:5 146:4
150:12 154:18
mystery 181:22

n
n 2:1 3:1 4:1
98:5
n.n. 165:11,16
169:9,11,17
174:16
naive 85:10
name 5:3 7:17
19:3 22:1 52:5
52:14 124:2
126:21 149:12
152:16 163:7,7
name's 32:18
names 21:2,9
22:22 108:6
110:14
narrow 171:5
nation 13:1
14:20
nation's 13:13
179:19
national 6:15
11:4 14:1 15:7
15:15 34:14
150:5 152:18
155:19 156:1
179:17
nations 15:1
21:10
native 7:6
10:20 11:5
146:17 147:4,8
147:12,16
148:20 149:3
150:6 152:4,18
155:12,14
164:1,2 165:12

November 28, 2023

Page 35
166:21
natives 147:4
naval 42:5,7,8
51:8 63:16
navigate
151:19
navy 42:9,17
43:3,10 44:22
60:19 62:6
nay 12:5 40:8
69:11 121:13
185:7
naye 88:8
near 140:7
nearby 93:8
nearly 184:20
neat 24:11
164:4
necessarily
24:13 77:16
114:17 128:20
136:10 163:5
165:1 172:1
174:3
necessary
88:18 91:19
122:22
neck 172:12
175:11 176:8
need 11:7
22:11 44:18
46:10 84:14
110:12 120:3
129:9 142:11
142:13 164:21
181:13 183:9
negative
103:20 118:22

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

157:12
neither 186:11
187:7
never 44:19
64:22 102:13
102:14 137:1
180:22 181:2,3
181:9 184:16
nevertheless
43:5
new 22:5 81:5
92:7,8,9 182:6
news 134:1
nice 19:15 54:3
61:19 131:2,17
137:4 164:5,6
170:8 173:7
nicely 38:7
99:2 106:17
nicer 65:14
night 42:21
nike 16:8 18:9
18:13
nike's 16:9
nine 18:3 21:8
35:8,17 94:16
94:18 100:16
100:18 102:1
105:4 106:21
109:8
nixon 43:6
noble 49:9
noetic 77:1
nomination
71:4
noncommissi...
102:14

Meeting

[normal - office]
normal 42:13
norman 93:9
normandy 93:4
north 91:16
93:1
norwegian
92:17
notable 149:1
notary 1:21
186:1,20
note 9:15 20:2
46:8 69:18
71:14 73:6
96:6,9,22
156:18
noted 96:9
128:13
notes 149:5,9
noticed 52:3
74:11 111:20
noting 153:21
noun 39:12
november 1:6
4:16 12:11,15
12:22 13:2,10
73:8
number 19:13
20:1 21:22
22:15,16,16,20
23:2 26:11
27:10 35:10,12
35:13,13,14,15
35:15,16,17,17
35:18 36:16,16
37:1,1 39:6
45:14 47:17,21
49:20 51:14
52:21 53:2,2,9

November 28, 2023

Page 36
53:18 56:11
60:5,15 61:5
62:14 64:10,11
64:12,16 67:16
67:17,18,19,20
98:5 103:19
129:7 130:1,15
130:19 131:3,9
131:10,11,12
131:12,13,18
131:22 132:2,3
132:4,6,22
135:2 140:19
143:17 144:5
144:21,22
157:3 158:16
159:5,8,19
168:7,8,10,12
168:13 169:22
172:6 173:6,6
177:10
numbered
101:11
numbers 48:10
numerous
93:19
numismatic
2:20 6:4 127:1
numismatics
2:18 6:1
nut 149:22
nuts 149:21
nw 1:12
o
o 4:1 20:10,17
22:6 39:13
40:3 91:21

96:3,5,16,16
104:1,8 105:9
107:20 112:2
116:8
oahu 160:1
objection 12:6
34:12 80:7
objections 12:2
objects 119:1
observations
17:12 98:1
observe 40:15
42:18 83:1
observed
125:18
observer
184:12
observing 44:9
60:5
obstacles 44:12
44:19
obverse 14:1
16:14 17:3,11
19:15 22:12
24:21 25:15
27:3 31:8 34:1
36:6,7 37:1,18
38:9,11,20
39:1,9 41:21
70:22 71:10,16
71:17,21 75:14
85:6 90:10
96:3,5,5,17
97:22 98:4,13
99:10,12 100:3
101:6 105:22
106:17 108:8
108:13 109:2

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

110:5 113:11
113:15 114:6
116:12 120:2
147:5 172:22
obverses
111:20
obvious 36:3
obviously
52:19 58:17
78:6 159:5
occasions
12:13
occurred 50:11
91:11
occurring
134:7 135:3
ocean 61:9
october 6:14,14
11:12 70:18
71:6 73:22
126:4
odd 85:21
offend 176:10
offer 34:8
70:18 79:2
167:15
offered 56:12
87:8
offering 49:16
71:14
office 2:21 7:18
9:8,11 14:5
21:16 33:10
40:20 46:3
55:19 70:11
90:12 125:4
146:19

Meeting

[officer - overcome]
officer 104:10
186:2
officers 102:14
112:1,12,12
official 14:14
14:21,22 15:19
offshoot 142:20
oftentimes 57:2
109:22
oh 37:4 150:19
ohana 150:22
153:2
ohio 131:20
okay 4:12 37:2
44:4 47:14
48:3,15 68:1
72:16 75:18
80:16 89:18
90:4 94:7
95:21 97:18
99:14,18
105:13 111:15
112:15 113:1
114:13 115:18
117:9,20
119:20,22
122:14,19
123:1,13 132:1
138:5 151:4
154:9,12,20
155:9 175:14
177:5 178:4
179:2 183:2
185:2
old 27:10,20
66:8 79:10
older 52:19
59:2 134:15

November 28, 2023

Page 37
olds 125:14
oldsmobile
125:15 133:3
ole 158:11,11
oliver 43:8
60:17,21
olympian 20:2
olympic 10:16
10:18 14:11,13
14:16 15:11,15
16:19,19,22
23:5,6 29:6,12
29:20 34:15
48:22 127:3
olympics 6:16
6:18 10:12,14
14:3,4,8,10
15:8,19 16:13
23:7 26:8
29:15,17 34:17
omaha 93:8
99:1
once 63:21
67:8,20 92:21
97:6 144:19
146:18 177:8
177:15
ones 23:10
24:15 60:14
111:7 132:1
134:22 135:20
141:16 161:20
open 44:20
66:20 183:3
operated 92:20
operating
180:16

operation
91:11 126:4
operations
91:6 92:16
112:5
opine 63:7
143:16
opinion 32:11
110:4
opinions 28:6
140:12 183:22
opportunities
45:2
opportunity
21:22 49:21
50:5,19 55:13
127:5 128:5
130:6,8 153:7
172:7,10,16
opposed 12:5
37:7 40:7 53:2
56:4 65:13
66:12 69:10
86:19 88:13
121:13 145:18
173:11,11
176:13 178:8
185:7
option 106:1,1
options 16:16
24:14
order 4:15 11:9
47:19 52:21
64:22 127:10
144:13 179:3
organization
133:4

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

organized
91:16
oriented 54:5
original 71:1,3
71:7,12,22
72:15,20 74:12
75:12,16,22
76:5,18,22
77:2,3,7 78:7
78:15,16,17
79:15,17 80:5
80:8,18 81:1
81:16 82:6,7
82:11,18 83:7
83:15,16 84:2
84:7,17 85:7
85:17,20 86:3
86:14,15,17,19
86:19,21,22
87:1,19 101:22
130:2 134:20
138:8 149:7
originally 72:7
125:13
originals 76:19
ounce 70:19,19
outcome
186:16 187:12
outlines 172:15
outnumbered
91:20
outside 75:3
outstanding
47:6 104:22
overall 25:20
131:2 136:15
overcome
65:20

Meeting

[overcoming - perry]
overcoming
44:11,19
overlooking
61:10
overly 50:12
overseas 93:20
overwhelmed
70:3
owe 182:11
own 115:19
118:13 134:2
p
p 2:1,1 3:1,1
4:1
p.m. 185:11
pacific 92:20
93:1
paid 181:5
painting 18:11
pair 24:15
paired 106:16
pairing 15:22
pairings 16:16
pairs 106:17
pam 3:5 8:5
pandemic
180:15,19
181:8,15
paper 43:4
58:21 59:1
64:20 160:20
papers 151:10
paralympic
10:16,19 14:11
14:13,17 15:12
16:19,22 29:6
29:12

November 28, 2023

Page 38

paralympics
15:8,19
parasum 10:14
paris 6:18 14:4
14:8 15:11
16:5 17:13
21:4 26:3,8,13
28:19 29:19
34:16
park 126:4
parks 10:1
part 14:21 29:5
30:3,7 46:12
64:5 73:21
83:16 91:12
96:11,14 98:21
122:10,11,15
126:13 127:16
136:11 139:1
141:11 143:1
166:2 172:5
174:8,8 176:12
participants
61:13
participate
14:13 70:2
92:15
participating
12:21
participation
178:19 182:20
particular
18:22 26:11
55:10 57:3,19
58:12 74:2
115:15 130:9
144:3 164:9
170:16

particularly
12:10 20:1
51:22 83:19
110:9 121:17
131:18 133:22
178:13 183:10
parties 186:12
186:14 187:8
187:11
partly 65:3
pass 18:21
98:10,17 99:8
115:16 117:15
117:16,19
140:7
passed 14:18
121:20
passes 121:15
passing 45:9
116:1
passion 47:20
63:8
past 56:12 57:4
128:6
patch 101:5
patented
125:13
patience
121:17
pattern 51:22
patterns 79:4
paul 7:12
pause 167:1
pausing 163:21
pay 126:12
pays 13:1
peace 13:9
85:15

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

pediments 32:1
peers 133:16
pele 10:20
150:10,14,16
pen 162:19
163:1
pending 54:10
people 30:7
44:18 50:21
55:2,7 60:20
62:8 63:15,20
64:7,7,15 65:4
65:5 117:4
129:12 133:20
133:21 134:3,4
134:4 136:7
138:17 140:7
142:7,7 143:19
151:8,19,21
167:1,22
169:13,16
181:16 184:5
people's 79:18
183:21
percent 13:15
98:15
perfect 81:6
perfected
168:16
perfectly 165:3
period 63:16
85:11 182:7
periods 74:19
permitted
148:18
perry 43:8
60:18,21

Meeting

[persisted - portfolio]
persisted
148:18
person 43:2
44:19 62:10
66:16 125:21
128:22 129:16
138:18 170:3,9
181:10 183:15
184:16,19
personal 13:11
50:11 180:14
182:8
personally
29:22 109:21
180:12 181:20
personnel
92:10
persons 10:7
102:11 104:12
perspective
23:18,20,22
25:3 32:10
37:22 54:11
139:14 172:19
176:3
persuaded 54:1
peter 2:19 6:3
10:15 20:7,9
29:11 36:10,20
40:16 51:11,13
68:6 78:11,13
100:13 104:22
105:2 111:18
124:5 130:13
130:15 145:10
159:2,4 177:20
185:4

November 28, 2023

Page 39

phenomenal
50:9 66:16
179:21
phone 5:1
182:17
photo 135:4
photographic
32:6
phrase 109:12
116:13 118:19
119:2,9 141:21
149:16 169:12
physically
12:20
pick 25:7 38:2
138:15 158:22
picking 25:1
picture 50:6
pictures 30:7
30:12
piece 22:3 25:4
25:6,8,12
37:22 38:6,16
38:18,19
125:22
pine 42:14
place 12:11
13:7 40:15
51:21,22 56:3
74:3 110:13
118:4 169:7
173:1
placed 114:7
placeholder
15:20,22
placement 16:2
109:2

places 104:13
planchette
15:17 32:13
130:5 142:9
planchettes
77:20
plane 49:2
planes 132:17
plant 126:5
158:20
platoon 112:6
played 126:13
plays 169:6
pleasant
121:21
please 5:3 7:16
21:16 28:10
31:11 34:17,21
35:3 37:14
61:7 67:6
69:10 73:15
84:15 87:17
88:5 118:8
124:1 135:16
143:16 144:11
162:18 175:1
183:7,9
pleased 43:16
93:22 109:9
126:17 150:1
plenty 113:20
114:9
plod 89:9
point 17:16
25:3 34:6
47:17,19 77:10
78:7 98:20
99:4,21 100:4

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

108:11 112:16
139:16 145:5
157:12 167:5
170:22
pointe 93:4,6
pointed 80:4
pointless 63:6
points 27:1
32:3 34:9
35:11,12,14,16
67:16,17,19,19
67:20,22 96:10
128:6 133:10
138:1 144:20
144:21,22,22
145:1,2,3
176:4 177:10
177:11,13,13
177:14,16
polish 172:16
polished 76:20
114:8 172:5
pool 91:2
poor 55:7
pop 103:21
pops 162:20
163:7
popular 28:13
28:18 79:22
80:1,1 148:10
population
13:15
portfolio 16:14
19:19 24:20
25:20 45:13
57:20 71:11
83:12 88:21
89:16 107:6,9

Meeting

[portfolio - previously]
111:7 114:19
125:1 131:2
135:12 136:16
139:11 146:16
153:22 157:8
157:16 158:16
portfolios
152:20 154:2
portion 108:17
portrait 49:4
56:2 60:10
63:18 66:12,15
69:1 72:1
130:7 163:16
171:16 173:4,7
portraits 46:9
55:9 56:1,1,1
164:6
portray 135:14
posed 135:4
position 65:15
182:22,22
184:13
positive 62:7
possessed
91:17
possibilities
158:21
possibility 34:6
108:22
possible 35:9
35:10 56:20
67:22 79:15
95:13 113:9,17
118:1 128:16
144:20 159:17
177:9

November 28, 2023

Page 40

potential 15:14
16:16 47:17
67:14
potentially
17:13
powerful
139:21 140:21
praise 163:14
pray 12:20
precedent 83:2
precedes 19:1
precise 183:17
predecessor
72:21
prefer 20:4
30:1 60:3,11
78:7,15 79:6
80:5 117:19
164:4 167:6
preference
17:2 45:21
46:6 50:14
51:3,10,14
52:21 58:10
60:13 83:7
106:10,11
112:1 128:13
128:18,19
130:1,19,21
131:8 136:17
137:18 155:13
155:16,16,19
155:22 156:1,3
156:4,17
158:14 159:8
160:13 161:1
164:10 165:4,5
166:4 167:11

168:10 170:1
175:12 176:9
176:10
preferences
49:17 51:20
94:19 103:16
106:3 107:17
109:7 114:18
127:10 132:10
136:18 153:21
156:16 167:20
169:21 170:11
178:1
preferred 96:4
96:5,8,17,19
96:20
prepared 187:3
present 5:3,6,9
5:12,15,18,21
6:2,5 7:17,20
8:1,4,6,9,12,15
8:18,21 9:3,6
9:10 12:21
34:19 35:7
40:21 57:8
67:7 70:12
71:9 90:13
94:11 95:18
124:1,4,6,8,10
124:12,14,16
124:18,20
125:5 146:20
168:8 177:6
presentation
15:9 20:5
presented
41:13,14 60:14
71:5,7 87:22

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

159:13 172:1
173:17
presently 74:2
presents 49:10
49:21 71:21
72:18 129:20
preserve
154:22
preserving
13:21 168:17
179:16
president
10:15 43:6
93:5
presidential
91:14 93:17
98:8 100:6,7
101:19,20
108:15,16
presidents
14:17
presiding
14:12
press 7:9 27:20
prestigious
151:6
presume 132:7
pretty 54:8
82:5 111:10
128:2 140:20
prevalent 28:3
prevented
42:11
previous 41:22
56:18 176:3
previously
37:19 125:8

Meeting

[price - puts]
price 126:12
primary 148:1
principle 20:22
printers 59:1
printing 43:1
prints 170:12
prior 186:5
private 30:20
privilege
102:12 179:7
privileges
50:18
privy 42:1
pro 115:2,4
probably 23:10
27:3 50:21
63:6 134:22
157:16 182:5
problems
98:11
proceed 84:15
proceeding
185:12 187:4
proceedings
7:7 95:6 186:3
186:5,6,9
187:6
process 31:4
32:21 33:21
46:10 53:9
61:11 70:2
103:14 126:1,9
127:16 129:10
136:7 138:7
160:9 175:21
180:13 181:21
182:9

November 28, 2023

Page 41
produced
125:15 148:4
product 128:2
production
50:1 126:7,11
products 10:18
professional
44:22 45:1
professor 10:4
43:19
program 17:21
40:19,21 41:2
41:21 46:8
47:8 49:15
50:4 57:3,15
64:17 69:13,14
70:12 71:15
73:17 74:7
77:15,17 83:11
90:13,16 94:1
97:2 100:12
125:5,9 129:3
137:3,5 145:21
146:20,22
147:15 156:12
178:17
programs
13:19 65:8
123:4 128:6
progress
140:20
project 10:8
47:3 94:2
prominent
147:13,16
153:5 160:21
169:7

promised
127:19
pronounce
16:10
properly 34:9
properties
10:17,19 15:8
16:19,22 29:12
property 29:6
133:6 160:1,2
propose 24:21
41:16
proposed 41:17
71:17,20 72:18
147:14
protect 45:6
protest 27:22
proud 45:6
151:16 160:4
proudly 174:5
proverbs 148:9
provide 34:17
67:6 144:11
153:3 172:7,10
172:16 179:11
provided 14:20
15:7 29:5
69:16 146:3
provides 172:6
provisional
92:11 93:16
101:13
public 1:2,21
2:2,7,10 4:6
5:1,5,11 6:10
6:14 11:12
19:2,9 41:2
56:8 65:22

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

66:7 90:16
142:12 147:9
148:7 166:19
179:18,22
180:4 186:1,20
publications
149:2
published
148:4
pukui 10:22
11:1 147:8,12
147:16,21
148:3,11,16,21
149:12 150:1
153:5 154:13
155:17,22
pukui's 149:16
154:3
pull 17:10 49:4
pulled 46:15
punch 64:18,19
64:20 65:1,17
purpose 15:9
134:21
purposes 4:5
83:13
pursuing 42:11
push 65:6
pushed 92:2
pushing 82:7
put 54:5 58:15
61:21 100:4
102:19 118:20
144:5 152:2
puts 50:22

Meeting

[quadrant - real]
q
quadrant
114:6
quaint 153:7
qualified 2:11
2:17,19 5:14
6:1,4 56:21
186:7
quality 52:22
172:18
quarter 50:4
55:11,11 127:4
129:13,14
130:5 143:19
152:22
quarters
147:15 162:14
question 18:4
19:7 31:11
33:1,3 48:8
52:17 53:4
58:2 73:13
75:11,20 81:5
81:9,13,21
100:14,15
102:22 103:11
109:14 110:16
111:1,19 113:4
114:16 118:18
132:5 142:16
159:7 165:7,17
165:22 166:5
171:10 174:22
questions
17:21 18:16
33:2 47:7
49:13 57:15

November 28, 2023

Page 42
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123:22 174:21
quickly 47:1
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173:15
quirkiness
78:16,18 80:13
80:15
quite 25:10,12
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112:18 131:1,2
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134:12 135:6
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162:7,20 174:3
quorum 6:11
124:1,22
r
r 2:1 3:1 4:1
20:11,11,19
22:11,11,11
39:13 40:3
57:20 58:1,10

58:10,10 61:5
61:18,21 96:18
96:19,19,19,20
96:20 97:11,11
105:6,7 106:21
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116:8 137:6,11
137:13
racism 42:10
raid 91:12
raiding 91:6
raids 92:16
raise 109:14
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154:21 162:2
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ran 180:16
ranger 90:22
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92:20,21 93:3
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ranger's
101:11
rangers 7:1
10:6,9 90:6,11
90:18,20 91:12
91:15,17 92:2
93:12,13,14,18
93:20 94:4,11

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

95:10,15,16
96:10 98:7,21
99:2 100:1,6
101:3,8 103:1
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108:1 115:7,9
rank 134:11,22
ranked 138:4
ranks 42:20
ransom 125:14
rapidly 147:21
rather 5:1
26:13 31:6
37:18 78:17
80:4 86:1 96:1
105:6 113:10
132:16 135:4
166:2 167:4
172:9 174:17
176:16 180:14
ratified 72:3
raye 10:2 42:2
42:4 43:18
44:8 46:15
52:5,13 62:10
64:9
rays 23:9
read 32:16
73:22 114:2
144:5 167:4
reads 107:21
ready 46:17,17
154:3
reagan 93:5
real 47:1 53:11
85:16 116:1
141:7

Meeting

[realized - reduced]
realized 46:9
really 19:15
20:17,17 22:8
23:17 24:11,11
24:19 25:2,3,7
25:13 28:15
31:4 37:20
38:7,19,21
52:18 53:10,14
54:22 55:1,9
56:3 59:7,8
60:15 61:13,17
61:19 62:13,15
75:1 82:8
85:21,22 96:11
103:19,21
104:1,7 105:5
105:6,22 106:4
106:5,17 107:9
110:2 121:16
128:9 129:15
129:22 131:2,3
134:1,3,12
135:11,12
136:5,14
138:20 140:3
141:8,11 142:7
145:22 146:3,8
151:19 153:5,7
153:8 156:8
157:10,18,21
158:7,9,9,22
167:14 170:20
173:15,20
174:10,14
175:7 177:16
178:12 180:1
181:13 182:2

November 28, 2023

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reappoint
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reason 21:4
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141:7,14 142:4
142:8,14
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reasonable
123:18
reasonably
80:1
reasons 24:12
27:4 49:21
56:11 58:1
65:16 94:11
103:17 132:19
138:16 141:20
rebirth 94:20
recalibrate
82:17
recall 61:22
received 35:11
35:12,13,13,14
35:15,16,16,17
35:18,18,19,19
45:15 67:5,16
67:17,18,19,20
91:7 98:7
144:21,21,22
145:1,2,2
177:10,11,11
177:13,13,14

177:14,14,15
177:15
recent 95:1
134:1
recently 12:22
181:10
recess 35:1,3
89:20 123:15
123:18 144:13
177:2
recessed
144:14
recognition
90:18
recognizable
20:5 83:20
139:16
recognize 35:7
67:11 98:10
144:16 155:6
177:6
recognized
41:12 49:19
69:20 116:2
recognizing
13:12 56:14
84:7 92:1
147:11
recommend
15:21 36:2
84:16 105:19
116:8
recommenda...
16:1 17:2,6
46:7,13 73:8
73:21 74:4
96:6,21 116:9
120:7 128:14

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

155:17 171:6
recommenda...
17:7 51:15
104:21 105:3,9
105:14 147:9
179:11
recommended
2:8,13,14 5:8
5:16,20 6:6
17:9 31:18
46:1,14
recommending
87:5
reconsider
22:14
reconsidered
17:13
record 7:15
9:15 35:4
45:18 47:2
67:10 69:18
90:3 123:20
144:15 177:4
186:9 187:5
recorded 4:21
186:6
recording 4:4
186:8 187:4
recordings
149:5,8
recreated 71:7
recruited 92:10
redacted 15:20
redesign 47:17
redoubles
143:2
reduced 49:3
126:7,12 186:7

Meeting

[reduction - requested]
reduction
126:9,10
redundancy
106:14
redundant
109:15
reference 48:12
references 16:4
16:13
referred
125:19
reflect 13:6
145:12
reflected 101:5
reflecting
13:11 179:17
reflection
12:14 24:6
reformed 92:7
regard 112:3
122:3
regarding
31:17 49:13
145:15 153:4
register 180:5
registered 45:1
reintroduce
153:8
reissue 78:19
reiterates
166:1
rejected 119:19
119:20
relate 30:20
75:22
related 186:11
187:7

November 28, 2023

Page 44

relates 29:21
106:10
relating 52:1
relative 59:14
186:13 187:10
relief 30:2 75:1
76:18 77:12,15
77:16,18 83:18
83:19 84:2
85:10,14
religion 148:14
remain 41:21
99:10,12
remainder 70:5
121:21 146:13
remaining
41:14
remains 13:7
remarkable
137:8 163:18
remedied 98:2
remember
13:20 62:1
64:18 102:12
170:10
remembers
46:3
remind 140:5
reminded 29:2
137:7 139:17
164:1 176:12
reminder 12:18
13:4 33:20
reminding
107:8
reminds 53:10
53:13 104:11
141:20 162:13

reminiscent
46:2
remote 34:21
remotely 7:10
180:16
removal 96:12
122:17
removed 99:6
99:12,20
removing
107:17 125:21
render 75:2
rendering
74:20
renderings
80:4
renders 71:6
71:12,13
rendition 73:18
115:15
repeat 36:14
87:16,18 96:22
97:2 122:15
repeated 97:6
97:21
replace 98:9
113:7,22
replaced 98:4
99:7
replacement
92:10
replacing
117:12
replica 85:15
86:1
report 144:12
177:1

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

reported 1:21
reporter 4:8,9
19:2
represent 95:8
95:14 100:17
137:22 164:18
184:4
representation
57:16 130:17
179:14
representative
10:22 94:3
150:4 152:13
representatives
43:17 121:1
150:3 153:18
155:13,15
represented
61:3
representing
2:2,6,10 5:4,10
6:10 18:13
49:2 72:3
represents
13:18 20:18
45:5 58:8 66:5
reproducing
79:11
reproduction
79:1,5,13,14
85:22
reproductions
79:12,12
request 16:1
71:14 92:5
116:10 128:20
requested 71:8
92:3

Meeting

[require - run]
require 122:8
required 43:14
126:15 149:13
requirement
46:8,14 47:11
48:20
requirements
15:18 47:10
49:6 109:10
119:11
requires 41:3
117:1
resembling
59:8
reservation
34:11
resided 151:17
resonates
12:13
respect 34:2
63:8,10,18
84:5 88:4
104:15 140:12
184:6
respected
28:21
respectful
184:2
respectively
177:17
respond 5:3
139:4
response 6:8
9:13 29:7
responsibility
102:10 179:11
rest 30:18
116:12 132:13

November 28, 2023

Page 45
resting 49:2
61:9
restrike 79:1,2
restrikes 80:5
restruck 79:5
result 148:3
resulted 91:14
resulting 149:1
results 34:19
35:7 144:12
177:1,7
retain 147:5
retained 98:20
retaining 99:8
retains 72:1,22
retired 94:8
retirement
45:4
revealed 27:19
reverse 14:1
16:15 17:6,8
19:16 22:12,14
24:22 25:10,16
25:21 27:4
31:9 34:2 36:6
36:7 37:2,19
38:10 39:11,18
40:17 41:5
62:14 67:3
70:22 71:11
72:17,18 82:9
85:6 90:10
96:8,18,19,21
97:22 99:13,15
99:22 101:1,10
101:16 106:10
106:12,13,16
106:18 108:8

108:14,16
109:3 110:5
113:7,18,21
116:22 122:18
125:1,5 143:11
144:9 146:17
146:20 147:7
173:11 177:21
review 6:14,18
6:20,22 7:2,5
11:10 13:22,22
40:17 71:8
90:9 107:9
127:5 146:16
reviewed 73:7
reviewing
114:19
reviews 126:19
revised 17:9
71:13 72:11,11
72:15 73:1,6,9
75:12,16 78:8
78:17 80:7,18
81:5 82:6
revisions 71:10
reynolds 10:17
11:3 152:13,15
152:17 154:1,6
154:16
ribbon 100:8
108:16
rich 179:10
richard 32:17
32:18
right 22:11
25:18 40:6
45:19 55:5
66:18 70:3

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

72:2,13 79:1
79:13 90:2
99:15 101:17
102:2 110:4,19
110:20 111:5
113:1 118:4
123:15 131:1
135:21,22
136:4,10,12
138:13 140:7
152:12 157:17
158:13 160:15
163:3 164:14
167:6 169:5
179:2 181:15
185:3
rise 42:20
risk 27:9
rituals 148:14
road 80:6
robert 70:15
robust 18:19
rock 10:5 42:5
43:21
roger 3:4 8:2
175:20
role 169:7
roll 123:22
roman 27:22
ron 10:7 94:1
97:18
room 113:22
rough 42:8
round 182:12
rows 144:2
run 4:20 83:14
184:6

Meeting

[running - see]
running 58:11
61:1
runs 183:17
rush 85:12
russ 53:8
russell 3:6 8:7
s
s 2:1 3:1 4:1
sacagawea
147:6
sacrifice 93:18
sacrifices 13:5
13:12 107:10
safeguarded
13:9
safest 164:21
sailors 45:7
sake 119:1
183:3
sale 19:9
salem 151:17
152:6
salerno 96:7,22
98:4,9,13 99:6
99:19 113:15
117:12
salute 13:16
49:22
samothrace
16:10 18:9
satisfactory
157:12
saunders 2:13
6:6,8 26:21
33:8,17,19
48:6,9,15 64:4
68:17,20 75:11

November 28, 2023

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160:18,18
savings 126:11
saw 32:21 50:6
61:2 115:14
138:19 173:16
saying 28:4
63:17 69:6,11
86:13 87:10
88:5 113:20
121:11 131:16
145:16 157:22
178:6
sayings 148:10
148:10
says 30:16 65:7
66:5,9,10
scale 49:3 61:3
61:8 138:21,22
scarinci 2:16
5:19,21 21:14
27:15 30:10
47:19 54:22
69:8 78:22
88:9 104:20
124:7,8 129:5
157:21 171:7
171:20 172:21
173:3 180:7,11
181:3
scene 105:8
scheduled 4:20

scholar 147:17
153:5
scholars
148:22
school 42:9
103:2 166:10
scientific 69:21
scientist 69:20
score 31:7,10
34:1,1,7,13,17
35:9 67:3,6,15
88:16 122:7
143:11 144:8
144:20 176:19
177:9
scores 67:7,15
144:12
scoring 31:13
33:21 35:7,9
35:11,20 67:14
67:18 176:22
177:9,12
scotland 91:10
scott 70:16
scouting 91:6
scroll 101:11
115:7
sculpt 77:2,3
sculptor 158:4
sculptors 85:12
sculptural 32:1
85:11
sculptures
32:19
sea 62:13
seamstress
170:13

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

search 77:6
searching 50:6
62:9
second 11:20
11:22 36:6,8
36:11,19,21,22
37:3,4,9 51:21
61:7 68:7
74:20 84:18
96:4 106:2
116:14,16
118:10 121:6
132:2 133:5
142:18 145:8
145:11 161:12
174:8,8,8
180:17 185:2,4
185:4
secondary
45:21 128:18
155:15 156:1,4
172:13
seconds 178:3
secretary 6:13
11:11 15:6
41:4,11,18
46:1 179:12
security 13:10
see 16:15 17:10
21:3,4 22:18
23:2,8,19,19
25:2,9 30:17
38:4,12,12,13
46:16 47:20
49:17 58:15
60:7 63:13,15
66:14 69:13
86:15 94:13,17

Meeting

[see - ship]
100:8,17 101:1
101:4,7,10,11
101:16 102:1
104:4,10 106:6
109:11 111:3,4
112:22 113:10
115:6,21 119:6
123:17 128:7
129:15 136:12
142:9,10,15
149:14 152:12
154:2 158:1,20
162:16 163:1,2
163:7,17
165:15 169:18
172:13 173:5,6
176:20 178:14
181:12 183:1
seeing 15:21
17:8 18:17
21:18 34:12
39:21 61:1
78:1 129:3
136:6,7 178:5
seeking 15:6
seem 87:5
105:4 142:3
seemed 77:7
140:19 164:17
seems 22:12
80:18 106:20
121:14 130:18
131:15 173:13
177:22
seen 29:17
31:19 57:18,18
96:15 118:22
127:20 135:18

November 28, 2023

Page 47
184:16
sees 66:8,10
segment 56:16
seldom 95:11
selected 44:14
91:2 94:21
119:5
selecting 43:1
selection
180:13
selections
20:14 110:5
selfishly 13:5
seminary
148:16
senate 2:14,16
5:17,20 155:20
156:2,4 164:10
175:9
send 34:21
senior 3:2,4
7:13,21 8:2 9:4
9:7 10:9,15,17
sense 48:2 56:9
58:7,19 59:14
66:14 108:18
138:6,8 141:8
sent 174:9
sentence 18:21
separate 59:5
71:15
separated
107:19
separating
72:10 116:11
116:12
september
29:16

sequoia 164:1
sergeant 94:8
102:6
series 55:1,3,10
55:12 56:2,19
83:3 129:8
130:8,10 151:8
157:3 158:10
160:19 161:2,3
161:18,20
162:13,13,17
163:9 164:15
165:5 167:8,21
167:21 168:7
168:11 171:11
171:12 172:6
173:5,12
serve 102:15
184:11
served 60:20
102:13 151:18
184:10
serves 12:17
13:4 31:22
service 43:11
47:4 56:4
90:19 104:12
140:13 183:10
services 9:22
serving 13:17
14:22 50:18
102:12 179:5
session 4:19
6:12 121:19
179:3
set 21:17 33:10
65:4 106:22
159:14

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

setting 83:2
settings 150:16
seven 22:16,20
24:10,10 35:14
35:15,16 91:1
93:15 100:1
106:1,6,17,20
106:21 115:8
144:1 145:2
several 119:7
127:15 131:9
141:1,10 150:2
150:2
shade 74:13,22
shape 13:13
shaped 42:1
share 12:9 29:2
65:22 66:6
82:22 83:6
97:19 127:8
167:20 178:16
179:4 180:14
shared 46:13
73:22 74:1
148:6 164:15
shares 159:6
sharing 71:18
148:19 163:14
sheet 31:10
34:1
sheets 34:17
67:6 144:11
shift 54:10 82:9
82:9
shifts 72:12
73:2
ship 42:8 43:1
43:3,4 49:1

Meeting

[ship - soldiers]
53:12 55:5,7
55:15 62:12
63:14,16 64:13
ships 42:7 45:7
shirt 158:2
short 37:20
shoulder 46:9
101:4
shoulders
47:10,12 54:11
54:17 68:4
shout 24:10
shouts 137:19
show 59:3 66:8
95:18 135:21
140:10,20
141:12 143:3
161:5 169:5
showed 53:15
showing 23:22
58:22 61:19
141:10
shown 53:2
101:7 140:22
163:20 173:22
175:22
shows 38:6
51:6 57:21
64:10,12 65:2
65:18 81:6
127:13,14
134:5,6 139:14
141:8
shrunk 139:19
139:22
shy 155:1
side 21:1,7,9,11
30:1 31:5,6,7

November 28, 2023

Page 48
96:7 100:5,7
109:16 113:17
118:5 152:6,7
sides 117:5
sign 16:8
signal 15:1
signature
186:19 187:15
signed 7:10
151:11
significance
168:22 179:13
179:18
significant 50:5
138:1 169:10
signify 69:6,11
88:5 145:16
178:6
silhouette
114:21
silhouettes
115:4,13
silver 6:22 15:7
70:10,19 71:3
71:21,22 72:4
72:5,7,19 76:4
77:15 80:1
83:22 84:1
139:20 163:18
similar 105:17
131:9,12 176:7
similarities
159:6
simple 38:19
170:3,9,14,15
170:15
simpler 131:10

simplicity
132:4 156:20
157:11 164:20
simplified
173:20
simplify 173:18
simplistic
170:17
simply 45:14
single 18:21
125:10
sir 7:11 35:1
67:1 74:9 75:6
75:10 77:21
86:9 102:8
139:5 146:4,12
173:2
sisters 166:12
168:12
sit 184:19
site 118:3,3
situation 55:20
105:15
six 16:22 17:1
20:1 23:2
24:16,18 35:15
92:21 100:2
104:1 128:18
128:18 130:1
132:2 134:2
135:2 136:16
137:17 138:6
138:10,16
140:12 141:3,7
142:15 144:5
145:2,7
size 32:15
92:15 139:15

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

139:19,20
140:4 142:12
143:17,17
skilled 149:2
skills 186:10
187:6
sky 114:6
skylines 16:5
slaughterhouse
125:18
slaughterhou...
136:4
sleek 22:21
slight 71:9 73:5
slightly 17:9
72:12 73:2
small 95:9
110:11,16,18
120:3 127:22
137:11 138:22
140:3,18
170:12
smaller 49:5
76:6 92:16
smallest 179:19
smile 50:22
69:1,2
smiling 49:18
54:3 65:13
smithsonian
152:12 153:18
smithsonian's
150:5
smithsonian’s
11:4
soldiers 92:4,9
101:6

Meeting

[solemn - stands]
solemn 13:4
solicit 184:17
solid 32:8,9
somebody 33:9
64:5 65:19
87:18 132:8
168:15
somewhat
134:10
son 10:2 43:17
44:8 147:6
songs 148:4
sonya 187:2,16
sorry 23:11
47:9 53:16
87:17 90:9
105:13 113:19
119:15 123:12
135:11 143:14
143:19 150:18
163:4 176:10
sort 22:4 26:9
49:18 52:12
110:15 111:3
127:10 138:20
141:4,20 171:5
sound 144:3
153:4
sounding 27:9
sounds 52:13
54:12 123:18
145:19 178:9
source 148:1
149:15 165:19
169:11,15
174:16
southern
100:21

November 28, 2023

Page 49
space 24:2,3,7
24:11 73:4
99:8 103:20
108:2 113:7,20
114:9 117:17
117:18 118:22
157:12
spacing 85:7
speak 37:12
46:17 48:17
58:9 74:1
83:12 86:8
97:14 108:21
138:18 151:1
175:8 180:12
speaker 2:8 5:8
88:8,12 98:16
121:8 123:11
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speakers 149:4
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specifications
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spend 39:17
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spirit 12:18
split 105:22
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spoke 23:11
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sponsors
109:21 110:1
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stack 64:19
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staff 7:16
111:13 120:9
179:21
stafford 2:21
7:18,20 8:6
14:4,7 16:12
18:6 19:10
29:1 32:12

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

34:10 40:20
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98:18 99:5,14
99:18 108:20
108:21 117:18
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122:8,14,18,22
123:2 125:3,7
128:8 146:18
146:21 150:10
150:15,19
151:3 152:9
153:14 155:9
172:8
stage 14:18
stakeholder's
137:3
stakeholders
40:12 114:11
147:10
stand 103:21
131:3 173:10
173:20 174:13
standalone
59:5
standpoint
31:4,20 34:3
61:18 174:11
stands 24:8
173:8

Meeting

[star - suggestions]
star 81:3
stars 72:2,13
75:14
start 4:12
28:14 36:2
62:9 83:13
85:13 129:4
136:22 140:20
153:22 154:7
started 152:19
157:8
starting 4:7
17:7 71:16
123:16 128:12
155:11
starts 157:3
state 19:3 41:9
41:19 44:14
66:4,6 149:21
174:6,7
states 10:10,16
10:18 14:9
15:5,8 29:15
29:17 41:6,12
42:9,17 43:3
43:15 70:17
72:3 73:1,2
90:17,20 91:5
94:5 95:9
126:16 147:1
149:13 160:7
165:10,16
171:13 172:22
static 39:12
135:2
station 42:18
stationed 92:13

November 28, 2023

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stipulations
106:21
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stories 147:22
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story 50:9
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storytelling
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strange 176:2
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strength
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stylistically
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submachine
111:21 112:2,8
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41:18
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171:1
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91:13 92:22
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26:2 85:20
succinct 59:18
sufficiently
19:1
suganuma
154:20 168:20
suggest 18:20
31:3,7 87:1
103:22 123:7
123:15 127:21
128:15
suggested
51:15 96:11
suggestion
45:22 52:3
128:15 160:11
suggestions
17:16 95:1
96:1 100:10
139:10

Meeting

[sukrita - technically]
sukrita 3:8
8:13
sullivan 3:2
7:21 8:1
summarize
114:22
summer 6:16
6:18 10:12
14:2,4,8,9
15:11 29:21
34:15,16
sunshine 79:6
support 18:22
19:17 22:14
37:17 51:13,20
56:10 60:19
78:17 79:16
103:16 104:20
105:2,9,14
106:13 107:6
107:16 110:8
137:13 170:7
supported
180:2
supporter
161:18
supportive
27:10
suppose 56:17
supposed 112:9
sure 18:15 23:7
25:22 29:11
30:19 31:9,12
33:9,22 34:3
45:17 55:18
82:4 86:18
100:20 102:11
110:22 111:10

November 28, 2023

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86:22
surrounded
26:15 72:2
169:2
surrounds
72:20
surviving
95:17
sustained
147:19
swift 55:1
swing 169:4
swirls 172:2,17
switched 74:13
sworn 186:5
sykes 91:8
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syllabary 164:2
symbol 26:17
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symbolic 14:19
symbolically
18:13
symbolism
175:6
symbolized
149:20
symmetry
129:18,18

130:15 131:16
system 43:1
61:10 125:19
t
t 126:3,7
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132:9
table 25:8 38:2
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185:1
tabletop
141:22 142:1
tackle 56:21
take 22:6 30:7
35:2 37:4
40:12 42:20
43:4 56:5
69:15 89:6,13
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123:22 129:16
144:13 168:5
170:2 176:21
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taken 20:1
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takes 24:1
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talk 169:22
talked 23:11
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115:20 133:15
137:13 166:11
170:4
talking 28:4,16
58:20 85:9

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202-857-3376

120:22 140:9
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tally 34:18 67:7
144:12
tandem 49:5
tape 64:20
tapes 64:20
task 43:5
169:20
tasks 26:4
taste 24:18
170:15
tate 9:7
taught 148:14
148:17
tax 9:19
taylor 10:17
40:16
teach 165:21
166:9
teachable
165:21
teaching 166:9
team 121:3
teams 33:10,12
65:5
technical 17:20
18:4 47:7
49:13 52:2
61:6,18 74:6
81:21 100:11
100:14 113:4
127:22,22
129:2 132:5
156:11
technically
60:2 81:7

Meeting

[technological - thing]

November 28, 2023

Page 52

technological
thank 7:14
80:5
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technologies
17:19 18:14
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technology
20:7,14,15,16
84:8
20:19,20 21:11
tell 33:12,15
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44:12 104:1
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telling 24:1
26:20 28:7,8
99:3
28:22 29:13,14
tells 64:13
30:9 31:2,15
tend 29:13,22
33:4 36:4,18
161:20
37:15 39:1,2,5
tennessee
39:19,20 40:12
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40:15 41:1
tension 165:20
44:5,7 45:10
term 116:2
45:11 46:22
183:1
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terms 24:17
50:16,17 51:10
26:14 33:6
51:11,12,17
52:22 58:20
52:14,15 53:19
64:9 68:4
53:22 54:20
73:19 77:17
56:7 57:11,12
162:22 175:4,4
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175:5,6 178:17
62:17,18,22,22
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63:2,4,22 64:1
terrain 91:18
64:2 65:20,21
territories 41:7
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tertiary 128:13
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test 141:22
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testifying 186:5
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texas 41:14
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text 54:5,6
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texture 172:3
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textured 172:3
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172:14
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83:8 84:4 86:4

86:5 87:21
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151:3 152:1,11
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202-857-3376

161:17 162:8,9
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169:17 171:7
174:19 176:18
177:18 178:12
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184:11
thankful 50:13
94:22 155:6,7
thankfulness
12:18
thanks 13:18
78:20 111:11
163:9 164:14
thanksgiving
12:12,14 13:6
13:14
that'd 33:17,19
54:18 76:12
theatre 92:21
theatres 93:2
theme 60:4
147:11
themes 57:14
147:10
theoretically
114:1
thing 30:11,17
33:8 65:6 66:6
76:17 78:6
81:5 85:21
114:4 132:1
133:18 157:4
158:19 160:12

Meeting

[thing - timeline]
175:16 181:12
183:11 184:15
things 54:7
55:16 57:7
58:16 61:1
65:2,18 76:17
81:13 86:20
95:15 110:11
110:14 127:7
127:12,20
151:15 168:1
170:14
think 18:7
19:14 20:10,18
21:22 22:4,6
22:11,17,17
23:3,6,7 24:1,2
24:5,12 25:1,6
26:2 28:12,17
28:19 30:21
31:17 32:4,7,8
32:22 33:13
37:20 38:19
39:10,12,14
44:17 45:4
47:22 48:19
49:10 51:16,21
54:3,4,18 55:2
55:10,15,21
56:12 57:7,14
57:19 59:7
62:8,21 63:20
64:14 68:21,22
74:12 78:18
79:18,22 80:2
80:7,14 81:2,8
81:14 82:7,14
83:6,10,14

November 28, 2023

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182:11,18

184:5,6,22
thinking 25:21
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third 96:17,19
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thompson
111:21 112:7
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112:2
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thoughtful
23:14 107:14
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thousand 93:15
three 10:19
15:16 16:20
24:2 29:20
32:12,14 35:12
35:13,13 38:7
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202-857-3376

48:9 50:4
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threw 59:19
thursday 12:15
13:7
tidworth 92:13
tied 35:11 54:8
time 4:17,22
11:8 12:10,15
25:2 27:6
28:15 29:13,14
39:17 40:12
50:7 56:9,9
59:2,6 61:16
63:16 66:14,15
74:19 111:17
115:14 118:16
118:16 119:9
126:6,7,9
133:18 140:8
141:1 143:6
147:20 151:19
165:9 170:10
178:11 182:4
timeline 141:4

Meeting

[times - tucker]
times 30:16
57:7 81:9
119:7 178:14
tiny 129:12
tire 131:20
136:10,11
140:4
tires 140:9
titles 148:4
today 7:16
21:18 28:22
29:14 43:17
61:13 65:10
71:12 93:21
95:2 121:21
125:1 126:17
134:18 137:6
151:8,12
153:12 158:4
169:12 179:22
today's 4:19,21
6:12 179:3
together 61:16
95:12 178:14
181:11
toggle 73:5
told 53:8
102:15 121:18
took 13:7 91:12
tool 176:11,13
top 26:17 32:19
48:10 76:5
99:7 100:8
110:20 113:14
136:18 141:1
177:12
topic 27:18

November 28, 2023

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26:15
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track 89:2
110:2
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tractor 58:21
tradition 91:5
traditional
38:1 139:20
162:21 174:5
176:1
traditions
13:13 148:14
trained 91:4
92:4

training 91:9
transcriber
187:1
transcript
187:3,5
transcriptionist
186:8
transition
25:15 38:5,14
translate
174:11 176:15
translated
148:1
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149:15
translating
168:3
translation
165:18,19
166:5,14 167:6
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175:7
translations
147:18
translator
149:2
tread 83:5
treasurer
179:12
treasury 11:12
15:6 41:4,11
treat 36:7 37:1
tree 149:21
174:7,7
trees 26:15
tremendous
179:7

www.CapitalReportingCompany.com
202-857-3376

trial 126:2
triangle 110:20
triangular
111:4
tribunal 9:19
tried 18:8
tries 132:22
trifling 158:16
triomphe 16:7
triomphe's
31:22
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troubles
107:21
true 84:1 136:5
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try 44:10,20
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trying 28:5
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110:14 133:3
137:21 150:20
152:3 160:11
166:7 172:19
tucker 2:17
5:22 6:2 19:5,6
19:12 33:3
39:4,4 47:15
47:16 57:11,12
59:20 60:3
62:18,20 79:21
79:22 107:15
107:16 109:4
114:15 115:11

Meeting

[tucker - university]
115:18 120:5,6
124:17,18
136:21 163:12
tuesday 1:6
4:16
tunnel 137:8
turn 25:9,17
38:10 39:17
54:20 80:11
81:18 82:19
107:14 110:6
130:13 131:7
136:20 138:11
157:19 159:2
161:15 162:10
163:11 164:12
171:3
turning 38:16
turns 83:3
twice 26:16
two 10:7 12:13
13:19 15:4
16:20 19:17
21:6,10 22:1,9
22:22 27:11
32:1 35:12,17
35:20 36:5,16
39:7 41:12,14
43:4 46:5
47:18,21 50:1
51:14 52:6,18
52:22 53:2,10
54:9,9,19
56:11 60:5,11
62:22 64:11
65:12 67:17,18
67:21 68:3,22
85:6 86:2,17

November 28, 2023

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uaw 134:1
ubiquitous
28:2

uh 4:11 77:9
ultimate 93:18
unanimous
145:20
unanimously
121:15 178:10
uncertainty
83:1
uncle 62:2,3
uncles 62:4
under 30:6
43:9 48:14
151:14
underneath
113:15 160:7
underreported
49:22
underscored
179:17
understand
31:19 44:18
63:17 79:9
85:8 86:13
114:17 118:15
131:11,16
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understanding
77:13 78:14
87:4 89:1
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understood
160:8
undertakings
148:3
unfortunately
22:21
unidentified
88:8,12 98:16

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202-857-3376

121:8 123:11
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uniform 101:5
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176:4
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119:19
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80:19
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uniqueness
162:15
unit 72:10
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united 10:10
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73:1,2 90:17
90:20 91:5
94:5 95:9
126:16 147:1
149:13 160:7
165:10,15
171:13 172:21
units 90:22
91:4,6 92:6
unity 12:19
university 10:5
42:13,14 43:20

Meeting

[unlawful - want]
unlawful 28:15
unnecessarily
86:4
unnecessary
110:16
unser 7:11
update 86:22
updated 46:2
71:11,22
upper 108:17
114:6
uppers 108:14
urban 19:13
urgency 43:5
use 6:15 10:11
14:2 30:22
34:14 52:3
65:9 81:10
93:14 114:21
140:17 182:19
used 15:15
44:20 45:2
59:1,15 120:16
125:14 147:6
169:12
useful 12:9
uses 24:3,7
using 43:3
55:14,14 63:14
81:10 82:16
84:8 91:3
96:15 126:5
182:1
usually 23:19
23:19 65:7
157:17
utility 31:19

November 28, 2023

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8:4
vehicles 132:15
132:18 133:7
verb 39:11

version 72:11
72:12 73:2,22
74:12,20 80:7
83:19 85:7
versions 72:19
73:9 76:22
versus 30:6
66:1 75:12
175:9
veteran 13:2
veterans 12:13
13:1,4,16
50:10 89:22
90:6,18 107:8
119:17 121:1
vice 10:3,15
43:18
victories 18:11
victory 16:9,9
30:1
vietnam 43:7
50:12
view 19:1 25:3
27:1 33:6
135:19,22
136:6
viewers 25:14
views 170:21
171:8
virginia 60:19
137:7
virtually 12:21
vision 46:18
144:3
visiting 125:17
visual 16:4
visually 39:7

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vitality 127:13
voice 63:8
161:10
volunteers 91:2
92:12
vote 22:7 27:3
145:3
voting 55:21
56:5 79:17
82:11 86:17,20
86:21 144:19
182:22
w
waikiki 169:4
wait 47:20
111:5 167:10
waiting 20:11
waiver 31:14
walked 65:5
walking 175:20
wall 158:6
want 9:14 24:9
24:12 25:4,5,7
27:13 28:12
33:5,22 38:1
38:22 44:16
45:14 46:18
50:17 51:4
58:14 63:11
81:5,10 84:11
86:2 89:6 95:3
97:14 105:5
109:21 111:13
115:1 121:16
121:19 122:9
122:15,20
123:22 133:3

Meeting

[want - women's]
139:3 140:12
142:18 144:3
152:8 154:6
156:8 163:14
165:8,11
166:13 167:9
167:20 169:22
181:20 182:8
182:14 183:19
wanted 31:16
47:2 94:16,17
100:17,17
101:1,8,9,10
101:14,15
115:6,21
117:14 119:6
155:3 168:19
168:20 173:20
181:19
wants 56:2
122:7
war 7:1 10:6
13:4 43:7
89:22 90:6,11
90:18,19,21,22
92:2 94:4,11
94:15 97:2,6
98:7 99:10,19
100:2 101:15
103:8 107:17
107:19,21
108:3 109:15
110:12 112:4
113:8,22 114:4
115:7 116:11
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November 28, 2023

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warren 2:4 4:2
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75:7,10 84:21
86:10 88:20,21
89:6,15,18,21
90:4 122:1,6
123:6,7,13
139:5,8 146:4
150:9,13
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washington
1:13 42:16
waste 79:18
watching
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water 49:2
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wavering 80:13
way 26:14
28:14 31:20
32:2 33:10
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66:13 69:3
81:6 82:8 85:5
93:12,13 96:10
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112:1 114:10
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175:21 176:14
ways 18:8 24:1
27:2 81:8,8
106:14 153:1
165:2,9,13
166:7
we've 23:11
57:3,15 65:22
66:2 95:13
114:19 118:22
123:4 127:4
132:14 137:13
142:11 156:16
175:5 182:17
184:6
wearing 46:3
162:1,5,6
website 166:18
week 73:7
weeks 141:4
weigh 33:5
96:2 183:9
weighting
17:12
weinman 3:3
9:4,6 34:5,5,18
34:22 35:7,8
36:1 47:1 67:7
67:12,13 86:9
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122:17 132:20
132:21 144:17
144:18 177:1,6

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177:8
welcome 53:20
62:19 63:3
went 64:20
130:6 133:15
138:3 151:10
160:9 161:1
173:10
whatsoever
79:8
wheels 128:1
whimsical 23:4
white 9:11,13
172:4
who've 181:5
william 85:12
91:21 125:16
willing 98:12
wing 18:12
winged 16:9
18:10
wings 16:9
72:21
winter 29:21
wintory 9:21
43:22
wisdom 148:20
149:4
wish 82:22
121:21
witness 186:4
woman 59:17
63:21
women 13:5
50:1,2 147:13
147:15
women's 43:14
50:3 55:11

Meeting

[wonder - zooming]
wonder 29:8
58:9 108:1
167:2
wondered 52:8
wonderful 44:7
50:2 62:20
63:21 107:6
135:12 136:12
146:10 154:14
170:13
wondering
19:8 113:6,16
166:3 175:8
word 21:19
72:11 96:7,22
101:15 102:13
107:22 110:20
113:12 120:15
183:18
words 21:3
27:11 44:1
94:6 126:19
143:18 146:6
150:8,17
152:14 175:15
work 20:10
43:12 48:13
53:9 56:14
58:6,15 61:14
102:15,18
114:8 134:17
135:5 137:2,9
137:10 140:3
140:15 146:8
147:9,18 149:6
149:17 152:2
153:1,9,20
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November 28, 2023

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worked 41:8
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works 106:12
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world 7:1,13
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115:7 116:11
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122:11 151:10
152:6 166:21
worn 150:1
159:22
worried 134:18
175:13
worries 150:19

worry 106:14
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worth 38:20
wreath 72:20
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write 65:9
writer 163:19
writing 122:16
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written 148:5
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wrong 26:12
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wwii 10:8
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y
yancey 1:21
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yard 60:19
yeah 20:13
28:11 32:14
34:10 48:9
54:18 68:16
74:18 84:12
89:13,17
113:16 143:21
154:20 160:5
167:11
year 12:11
42:15 50:3,12
66:7 146:22
166:9 179:6

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202-857-3376

year's 42:1
years 41:22
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64:21 131:14
140:14 180:3
180:15 182:7
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184:14,20,20
yep 4:9
yesterday
27:20
young 47:3
youtube 4:5
z
z 98:5
zeitgeist 132:16
zero 56:5
zeytoonjian
10:15 29:11,12
zoom 32:6
33:11 65:4
zooming 31:18
48:22,22