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Meeting November 17, 2020 1 Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Public Meeting Moderated by Tom Uram Tuesday, November 17, 2020 11:00 a.m. Remote Proceeding Washington, D.C. Reported by: JOB No.: Andrew Adams 4314340 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 2 A P P E A R A N C E S List of Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Attendees: Lawrence Brown, Member (by videoconference) Sam Gill, Member (by videoconference) Dean Kotlowski, Member (by videoconference) Mary Lannin, Member (by videoconference) Mike Moran, Member (by videoconference) Robin Salmon, Member (by videoconference) Donald Scarinci, Member (by videoconference) Jeanne Stevens-Sollman, Member (by videoconference) Dennis Tucker, Member (by videoconference) Tom Uram, Chairman (by videoconference) Peter van Alfen, Member (by videoconference) List of United States Mint Staff Attendees: Betty Birdsong, Deputy Director of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs (by videoconference) Pam Borer, Design Manager (by videoconference) Russell Evans, Design Manager (by videoconference) Boneza Hanchock, Design Manager (by videoconference) Ron Harrigal, Manager of Design and Engraving (by videoconference) www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 3 A P P E A R A N C E S (Cont.) Joe Menna, Mint Chief Engraver (by videoconference) Megan Sullivan, Senior Design Specialist (by videoconference) Roger Vasquez, Design Manager (by videoconference) Jennifer Warren, Director of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs and Liaison to the CCAC (by videoconference) Greg Weinman, Senior Legal Counsel and Counsel to the CCAC (by videoconference) Also Present: Christine Darden, Ph.D. (by videoconference) Jowarren Halback (by videoconference) Brandon Hall (by videoconference) Joylette Hylick (by videoconference) Katherine Moore (by videoconference) Donyale Reavis, Esquire (by videoconference) Mike Unser (by videoconference) www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 4 C O N T E N T S PAGE Call to Order - Tom Uram 5 Approval of Minutes and Letters - 12 Tom Uram Approval of 2020 Annual Report - 13 Tom Uram Review and Discussion of Obverse 16 and Reverse Candidate Designs for Katherine Johnson Congressional Gold Medal - Megan Sullivan Review and Discussion of Obverse 49 and Reverse Candidate Designs for Dr. Christine Darden Congressional Gold Medal - Megan Sullivan Adjourn - Tom Uram 80 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 5 P R O C E E D I N G S CHAIRMAN URAM: All right, Jennifer. Thank you. Good morning everyone, and welcome to the call of order of this meeting of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee for Tuesday, November 17, 2020. I would like to remind each member of the Committee to mute his or her phone or microphone on the WebEx program when not talking and to announce your name at the beginning of each time you speak. Additionally, I remind the public to mute your phone and that this is a listening-only hearing for the public. Before we begin, I would like to introduce the members of the Committee. And please respond "present" when I call your name: Sam Gill. MR. GILL: Present. CHAIRMAN URAM: DR. BROWN: Dr. Lawrence Brown. Present. CHAIRMAN URAM: Dr. Dean Kotlowski. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 6 DR. KOTLOWSKI: Present. CHAIRMAN URAM: Mary Lannin. MS. LANNIN: Present. CHAIRMAN URAM: MR. MORAN: Mike Moran. Present. CHAIRMAN URAM: MS. SALMON: Robin Salmon. Present. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you. Donald Scarinci? Are you on? Got you. Don, I see you there. Okay. Jeanne Stevens-Sollman. Jeanne? You're not there? MS. WARREN: She was on a minute ago. She's still there, but it -- her video is off. CHAIRMAN URAM: Okay. So -- We'll catch her. Yeah, we'll catch her in a second. Dennis Tucker? MR. TUCKER: Present. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you, Dennis. Dr. Peter van Alfen? DR. VAN ALFEN: Present. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 7 I'm the chair, Thomas Uram of the CCAC. We'll come back to Jeanne any minute when we see her log on and officially have her announce herself. GREG WEINMAN: And you have a quorum. CHAIRMAN URAM: So we do have a quorum, and the agenda for today's public meeting includes: Acceptance of the letters to the Secretary and approval of the minutes from our September 2020 meeting. Acceptance of the 2020 Annual Report. Review and discussion of the obverse and reverse candidate designs for the following Congressional Gold Medals honoring: Katherine Johnson; and, Dr. Christine Darden. And this is part of the Hidden Figures Congressional Gold Medal Act. Before we begin our proceedings, I ask the Mint Liaison to the CCAC, Ms. Jennifer Warren, if we are aware of any members of the press who have www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 8 signed on to the public meeting. MS. WARREN: Yes, Mike Unser from CoinNews Media is on, and Brandon Hall from Coin Update and Mint News Blog is on. CHAIRMAN URAM: MS. WARREN: Thank you. And, actually, if before we start -- Jeanne, can you un-mute your mic and let us test to make sure we can hear you? It's the button on the bottom. We see you, but you're still -- your microphone is still muted. MR. WEINMAN: We can't hear you. Jeanne, un-mute your mic. You're muted -- virtual connectivity interruption -MS. WARREN: Jeanne, we still can't hear you so you may want to call in with the -- on the number and talk through that way. MS. LANNIN: called in. I believe she is also I'm seeing her twice on the screen: once her video and once her name. MS. WARREN: Yeah, I do too. Jeanne, if you could e-mail me your www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 9 phone number, our technical person will call you and help you through. Tom, you're muted, so if you un-mute, then we can start. CHAIRMAN URAM: Yeah, why don't we -- yeah, what we're going to do is while Jeanne is doing that, I'll continue on with the rollcall. Jeanne, I have you marked as present and we will go through the rollcall and then we'll make sure you're on before we go into the other business. Okay. joining us. Mike, Brandon, thanks for And that's glad -- I'm glad you're part of us. For the record, I'd like to also confirm the following Mint staff that are on the call today. Please indicate "present" after I have called your name. Megan Sullivan, Senior Design Specialist. MS. SULLIVAN: Present. CHAIRMAN URAM: Boneza Hanchock, Design Manager. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 10 MS. HANCHOCK: Present. CHAIRMAN URAM: Pam Borer, Design Manager. MS. BORER: Present. CHAIRMAN URAM: Roger Vasquez, Design Manager. MR. VASQUEZ: Present. CHAIRMAN URAM: Russell Evans, Design Manager. MR. EVANS: Present. CHAIRMAN URAM: Joe Menna, Mint Chief Engraver. MR. MENNA: Present. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thanks, Joe. Ron Harrigal, Manager of Design and Engraving. Ron? MR. HARRIGAL: Present. CHAIRMAN URAM: Jennifer Warren, Director of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs and Liaison to the CCAC. MS. WARREN: Present. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thanks, Jennifer. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 11 Greg Weinman, Senior Legal Counsel and Counsel to the CCAC. MR. WEINMAN: Good afternoon, Tom. CHAIRMAN URAM: MR. WEINMAN: Good afternoon. Good morning, Tom. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thanks, Greg. Betty Birdsong, Deputy Director of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs. MS. BIRDSONG: Present. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thanks. And, finally, the following liaisons will be on the call today. For the Katherine Johnson Congressional Gold Medal are Katherine Johnson's daughters, Joylette Hylick and Katherine Moore as well as Donyale Reavis, the family Johnson -- the Johnsons' family attorney. For Dr. Christine Darden Congressional Gold Medal is the honoree, Dr. Christine Darden. I would like to thank all of you for joining us today. I'd like to begin with the Mint. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Are Meeting November 17, 2020 12 there any other issues that we -- need to be addressed before we start other than checking with Jeanne? Anyone have anything else? Jeanne? Are you back on? I see Jeanne. MS. WARREN: If -- again, Jeanne, if you could send us your phone number in an e-mail, or Betty, just her normal phone number, if you could send it to Jowarren and he will call her and -- and try to help her out. CHAIRMAN URAM: Since I see her, I suppose she can hear us but she cannot speak. okay. Jeanne. Good. Okay. So -- So we're going to continue on, Thank you. We now turn to the business of the Committee. The first item on our agenda is the review and approval of the Minutes and the letters to the Secretary from our last meeting which was September 22nd and September 23rd. Are there any comments on the documents? Hearing none, is there a motion to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 13 approve the minutes and the letters? MS. LANNIN: Mary Lannin. I approve the minutes. DR. BROWN: Dr. Lawrence Brown, I second. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you, Mary. And Dr. Lawrence, thank you. Everyone in favor, signify by saying "aye." COMMITTEE MEMBERS: CHAIRMAN URAM: objections? Aye. Are there any If not, without objection the minutes and the letters are approved. Next we turn to the approval of the 2020 Annual Report. Per Section 5135(g) of Title 31 of the United States Code, the CCAC is directed not later than September 30th of each year to submit a report to the Secretary of the Treasury, the House Committee on Financial Services, and the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs. This report is to describe the activities of the CCAC in the preceding year and the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 14 recommendations made by the Advisory Committee to the Secretary of the Treasury. Due to the timing of our last meeting, to ensure its inclusion, a letter was sent to the Committee and the Secretary notifying them that the report would be sent -- will be sent on December 18th. A copy of the proposed annual report has been shared with all of our members prior to this meeting. This report is a summary of our membership, summary of our meetings and actions of the CCAC from September 30th of 2019 to September 30th of 2020, any recommendations of the CCAC from public meetings last year, and outlook for 2021. Does anyone have any comments regarding the document that you have reviewed? Hearing none, is there a motion to approve the 2020 Annual Report while allowing the Mint to make any necessary changes to the document as it is prepared? MS. LANNIN: Mary Lannin. CHAIRMAN URAM: Mary. So moved. Is there a second? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 15 DR. BROWN: MR. GILL: Lawrence Brown. Sam Gill. MS. SALMON: I second. Robin Salmon. CHAIRMAN URAM: Okay. heard Dr. Brown first, Robin. Second. Second. We have -- I Sorry. So Mary Lannin and Dr. Brown. All those in favor, signify by saying "aye." COMMITTEE MEMBERS: CHAIRMAN URAM: objections to the motion? Aye. Okay. If there are any If not, without objection the annual report is approved. And once again, I'd like to particularly thank everyone that was involved with that in regards to the preparation and so forth. I'd like to thank all of you for approving it. And And with the annual report approved, the Mint will finalize the report and ensure its delivery. MR. WEINMAN: Greg Weinman. And just -- this is Just to clarify, Tom, the Mint will share -- any -- any grammatical edits or otherwise, the Mint will share with the Chair. So it's not gonna happen -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 16 CHAIRMAN URAM: Very good, Greg. Thank you. Okay. We will now hear from Megan Sullivan, Senior Design Specialist, who will present the candidate obverse and reverse designs for the first of the two Congressional Gold Medals on the agenda today as designated in the Hidden Figures Congressional Gold Medal Act. The first is the Congressional Gold Medal honoring Katherine Johnson and that is to be considered today. Megan? MS. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Tom. Public Law 116-68, the Hidden Figures Congressional Gold Medal Act, awards a Congressional Gold Medal to Katherine Johnson in recognition of her service to the United States as a mathematician. Born in 1918, Katherine Johnson was attending high school by age 10, and by 18 had graduated college with highest honors and took a job teaching at a black public school. In 1952, she applied to work at the West Area Computing Section at the National Advisory www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 17 Committee for Aeronautics' (NACA) at their Langley laboratory. She later joined the Space Task Group as NACA -- as NACA became NASA in 1958. In 1962, as NASA prepared for John Glenn's Friendship 7 mission, computers were programmed to control the trajectory of the capsule from blastoff to splashdown, but the astronauts were wary of putting their lives in the care of the electronic calculating machines. As part of the preflight checklist, Glenn asked engineers to, quote, "Get the girl" -Katherine Johnson -- to run the same numbers through the equations that had been programmed into the computer, but by hand, on her desktop mechanical calculating machine. "If she says they're good," Johnson remembers the astronaut saying, "then I'm ready to go." Glenn's flight was a success and marked a turning point in the competition between the United States and the Soviet Union in space. When asked to name her greatest contribution to space exploration, Johnson spoke about the calculations that helped synch Project Apollo's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 18 Lunar Lander with the moon-orbiting Command and Service Module. She also worked on the Space Shuttle and the Earth Resources Satellite. 1986, after 33 years at Langley. She retired in Johnson died on February 24, 2020, at the age of 101. We were delighted to work with two of Katherine Johnson's daughters, Katherine Moore and Joylette Hylick, in the development of these designs. We are so honored to have both of them here on the line with us. And Mrs. Johnson or Mrs. Hylick, would you like to say a few words? MS. HYLICK: This is Joylette. We would just like to say how honored we were that she has been considered and that this medal -- everything that she's done, I think, has been an inspiration for young people: women, yes; young girls, yes. But just people in general because many people have had problems in their lives of being successful not because of their talent but because of circumstances, and she just showed how you go beyond that and continue to follow your passion and just always do www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 19 your best work. So we are very pleased to be included in this, and we thank you for the honor. Kathy? Do you have -- MS. MOORE: all. My big sister has said it We just are very honored and have enjoyed going through the process with you and having to decide which one shows her best side -- and all of her sides were good, so we are very pleased. MS. SULLIVAN: Thank you. Thank you so much. We really appreciate it. So as we've done in past meetings, we're going to go through the designs. For the ease of time, unless preferred otherwise, I'm just going to read the design descriptions of the two preferences, but we will walk through all of the designs. And if anyone wants to hear any of the other design descriptions, again you've already received them, but if you would like me to read any of them, please let me know. So beginning with the obverse designs, we have Obverse 1, Obverse 2, Obverse 3, Obverse 4, Obverse 5, Obverse 6, Obverse 7. Obverse 7 is the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 20 obverse preference of Mrs. Johnson's daughters. This design depicts a portrait of Katherine Johnson in front of a variety of equations used to calculate the orbits and trajectories of spacecraft. Obverse 8, Obverse 9, Obverse 10, Obverse 11, Obverse 12, Obverse 13, Obverse 14. And that completes the obverse designs. Moving on to the reverse designs, we have Reverse 1, Reverse 2, Reverse 3. Design 3 is the preference -- the reverse preference of Mrs. Johnson's daughters. This design depicts Freedom 7 and the Redstone rocket along with a graph representing the equations that describe an orbital spaceflight in which the landing position of the spacecraft is specified. The additional inscription is "Reaching For The Moon." Reverse 4, Reverse 5, Reverse 6, Reverse 7, and Reverse 8. And Mr. Chairman, that concludes the presentation of designs. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you, Megan, and -- and all the hard work you have put into the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 21 program as well. And now I'll ask if Joe Menna or Ron Harrigal have anything to share with the Committee on the design for this medal, anything specific. Let's -- Joe, let's start with you first. Joe, do you have any comments? MR. MENNA: No, sir. CHAIRMAN URAM: Ron? Thanks. Still there, Ron? MR. WEINMAN: Ron, you're muted. MR. HARRIGAL: about that. Thank you. I'm sorry. Yeah. Sorry I had -- I had the mute button off as always. Yeah, the designs are very classic and they're all definitely coinable. I think any of the choices would make a beautiful medal and it will come up nicely in -- in the sculpting. So I think they're all good choices. CHAIRMAN URAM: Okay, Ron. Thank you. Are there any technical or legal questions from the Committee that anyone has about this program or designs before we being our general www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 22 discussion? CHAIRMAN URAM: MR. SCARINCI: Okay. Let's -- Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN URAM: MR. SCARINCI: Yes. Mr. Chairman -- CHAIRMAN URAM: MR. SCARINCI: Is that Donald? -- I'd like to make a motion to approve the recipient's recommendation of -of Obverse 5 and Reverse 3. MR. WEINMAN: Obverse 7, I believe; right? MR. SCARINCI: Is it Obverse 7? MR. WEINMAN: Megan? MS. SULLIVAN: Confirm. That's correct. Obverse 7 -CHAIRMAN URAM: MS. SULLIVAN: Yes, it's 7. -- and Reverse 3. CHAIRMAN URAM: Donald has made a motion to approve Obverse 7 and Reverse 3 -DR. BROWN: This is Dr. Brown. I'd like -- I'd like to second that motion. CHAIRMAN URAM: Dr. Brown would like to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 23 second that. Is there any discussion? DR. VAN ALFEN: Peter van Alfen. This is I just have a quick technical question about the Reverse. The lines -- the grid lines, does -- would -- Joe, would these be raised or would these be incuse? MR. MENNA: They would like be incuse into -- into the field. DR. VAN ALFEN: MR. MENNA: Very good. With the little -- the dots raised. DR. VAN ALFEN: All right. CHAIRMAN URAM: Okay. Very good. Thank you. Any other observations or questions at this time? MR. GILL: Mr. Chairman, this is Sam. CHAIRMAN URAM: MR. GILL: Yes, Sam. Sam Gill. question about the rocket itself. I just had a It could very well be that the Redstone was what the artist was going for in that Mrs. Johnson worked on early trajectories with that rocket. But if you pair the Atlas rocket, and I know this is a technicality, this isn't an Atlas www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 24 rocket. So that would pair with the Friendship 7. Just -- just an observation. again. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you, Sam. DR. VAN ALFEN: This is Peter van Alfen I just have one other question about the reverse. I -- I really love that obverse, and I -- I really like the -- the formulae behind the portrait. My -- my only question there are whether or not these are actual, real formulae associated with her work, or something else. In fact, I also like the fact that "moon" shows up, you know, in the formulae next to the portrait there. But, you know, my one question then would just be about whether or not these are actual formulae or just creations of some sort or another. MS. SULLIVAN: They are actual CHAIRMAN URAM: That's great. formulae. MR. TUCKER: Mr. Chair, this is Dennis Tucker. CHAIRMAN URAM: MR. TUCKER: Go ahead. I would like to address Ms. Hylick and Mrs. Moore and offer our condolences www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 25 for the recent passing of your mother. It's always sad when an American hero passes away. My question about the designs involves Obverse 7 and Obverse 13. choice. Obverse 13 was my first And I understand that it was one that caught your eye as well during the design process. I think it's a wonderful portrait and I like the fact that it tells the viewer what she did in text with the words "Research Mathematician." I understand, of course, that Obverse 7 does the same symbolically using the equations in the background. But could either or both of you speak a bit about your preference for 7 over 13? MS. MOORE: I think we have chosen the first because that was more of the age she was when she was working there. We followed her -- all of her years, but we looked and we looked and we thought that was about the time that she was making those formulas. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you, Katherine. MR. TUCKER: Thank you for that. MS. HYLICK: My comment was that we liked the original picture of that, but something was www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 26 not quite -- we felt not quite there for the rendering on that picture. MS. MOORE: And I liked it too, but there's something that just wasn't quite lining up right. I guess it's how we chose between the two. MR. TUCKER: -- and guidance for us. That's great feedback and Thank you. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you. Thank you, Dennis. We have a motion on the floor now -DR. KOTLOWSKI: Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN URAM: Yes, go ahead. DR. KOTLOWSKI: This is Dean Kotlowski. Ms. Hylick and Ms. Moore, following in with what my colleague Dennis Tucker said, condolences on the passing of your mother and many thanks from a grateful nation for her service. I wanted to follow up a little bit with the reverse. And you picked Reverse 3, which I'm fine with, but one of the choices was Reverse 8, and I was really very impressed with Reverse 8. And, again, I'm asking question in parallel to what Dennis Tucker www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 27 asked. If you could speak to why you ultimately decided to prefer Reverse Number 3 over Reverse Number 8. MS. HYLICK: Looking at 8, I really liked a different picture that showed the flight path around both the moon and the earth, and that didn't seem to come to fruition. And we thought maybe this one -- it didn't look as exciting, but I don't know. I -- I did like it and -- I don't know. I just think the one -- the one that I really wanted, it looked like a figure eight with several path; and, apparently, they weren't able to do that, and so I voted for this one initially with that in mind. MS. LANNIN: Mary Lannin. Mr. Chair, this is I'd like to make a comment about Reverse Design Number 8. First of all, Ms. Hylick and Ms. Moore, you had a very cool mom. MS. MOORE: undoubtedly. Yes. MS. HYLICK: Thank you. MS. LANNIN: Just absolutely, And I'm so glad you were able to join us www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 28 even it it's sort of on WebEx because we can look at the obverse designs and then look at you two and see your mother in your faces. So I think that that's wonderful. MS. MOORE: MS. LANNIN: Thank you. I have no problem with the obverse design that you picked especially since you recognize that she -- that was about the age that she did those formulas. But in our packet of information that we get, the -- you know, the thing that Megan had read, she said that one of her -- one of her most proud things was calculating the orbital flight for the Apollo Space Program. And so Design Number 8, I agree with Dean. I think it's a terrific design. You might not be aware of all the magic that the guys at the Mint and the women at the Mint can do. But they can do some absolutely wonderful texturing on the -- on the reverse of Number 8, and it's the kind of reverse that would make somebody want to pick it up and feel it with their fingers, you know, feel the roughness, or feel -- feel the -- the equipment, have your finger www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 29 follow around. I think that's just a terrific reverse; and, essentially, it matches the equations that is on the obverse that you chose. So what do you think about that? MS. HYLICK: I like that. MS. LANNIN: Thank you. MS. MOORE: It was -- it was my first choice; but, again, I just still had in my mind the other one, but -MS. LANNIN: I think you made an excellent first choice. MS. MOORE: And for -- and for the record, she went to NASA in -- back in '53, but her trajectories were the foundation -- and still are of all the flights. So it's not just pointed at one or two. MS. LANNIN: MS. MOORE: MS. LANNIN: Right. Well, I -- So --- I think that that would make a great pairing Ms. Hylick and Ms. Moore. And I don't know if my colleagues in the CCAC agree, but I just felt that I needed to bring that up. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 30 CHAIRMAN URAM: Thanks, Mary. At this point, we do have a -- we do have a motion on the floor by Donald Scarinci and Dr. Brown. Before we take any vote or vote on this, Jeanne, are you able to still hear us now? Or speak? MR. WEINMAN: Jeanne. You're still muted, You're muted. CHAIRMAN URAM: Okay. Jeanne, are you there? MR. WEINMAN: You're on mute, Jeanne. CHAIRMAN URAM: I prefer not to take a vote until we're sure Jeanne can be on so that we have everyone counted. DR. BROWN: Lawrence Brown. Tom, if I may? May I offer some comments? CHAIRMAN URAM: DR. BROWN: MS. WARREN: Jennifer. This is Sure. I -Hold on. This is Can we then move to each member having their five minutes, go through them all, and then go -- and then if you don't have anything to say just www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 31 not talk. And then we can get to -CHAIRMAN URAM: Should we -- Jennifer, should we take a vote first since we have a vote on the floor before we do that? I -- actually, I think probably everyone that wanted to say something spoke during the -- you're exactly right. We could have gone around. But Donald, you made the motion. you want to keep the motion as it is? Do Or do you want me to open it up to further discussion? I think a lot of the comments made particularly by -- by Joylette and Katherine both made very relevant comments. But go ahead, Donald, what would you like or prefer to do? MR. SCARINCI: for sure. No. I -- I don't mean to cut off anyone. CHAIRMAN URAM: this? People can speak Okay. Why don't we do Even though we have the motion on the floor, I'm going to go through the list. If you'd like to add anything further or if you've already spoken and there's nothing further you'd like to add, that will be fine. So, let's begin. Donald, anything www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 32 further? MR. WEINMAN: He says "no." CHAIRMAN URAM: No. Okay. Mike Moran? MR. MORAN: No, nothing to add. CHAIRMAN URAM: MS. LANNIN: Mary Lannin? Nothing to add. I made my points for the -- virtual connectivity interruption -CHAIRMAN URAM: Thanks, Mary. Robin? MS. SALMON: about Reverse 8. I agree with Mary's points And if the family is in agreement, I think that that would be the best possibility. Thank you. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you, Robin. Sam? MR. GILL: Mr. Chairman, I like all the designs and -- but I'm -- I'm going to go with Don's -- Don's motion. CHAIRMAN URAM: Okay. Thank you, Sam. Dennis Tucker? Thank you, Sam. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 33 Dennis? MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I like the action in Reverse 3, but I am compelled by Mary's argument or persuasive statement on Reverse 8. I think that Reverse 8 is a good accompaniment to Obverse 7. Thank you. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you, Dennis. Dr. Dean? DR. KOTLOWSKI: absolutely magnificent design. I think Reverse 8 is an It's like Mary said, it makes you want to pick up the coin and look at it. I love the circularity of the design and how it matches very nicely with the coin. I believe, though, we might have heard only from one member of the family about this. I'm -- I'm not sure if it was Katherine or Joyette -- or Joylette -- excuse me. So maybe we can get a little bit of further clarification, but I -- I think Reverse 8 would really make a very special medal artistically. Thank you. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you, Dean. Jeanne? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 34 MS. WARREN: Tom, it looks like she's still on the phone trying to get it to work. CHAIRMAN URAM: Okay. We'll move on to -- Dr. Peter? DR. VAN ALFEN: I'm -- I'm quite happy with Reverse 3 as well as Reverse 8. So I would -- I would be on board with whatever the family would decide on this. And I also just want to express my condolences to the family and just say that your mother has been a real inspiration to my daughter, you know, as well too. So -- MS. MOORE: Thank you. DR. VAN ALFEN: Yeah. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you, Peter. Jeanne back there yet, Jennifer? MS. WARREN: still on the phone. No, it looks like she's Jowarren is calling her. CHAIRMAN URAM: you what. Okay. So -- Well, I'll tell While we're waiting for her, would Katherine and Joylette -MR. WEINMAN: Tom, I believe Dr. Brown wants to speak. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 35 CHAIRMAN URAM: DR. BROWN: Mr. Chair. Okay. Yes. Thank you so much, This is Lawrence Brown speaking. And I also want to give my real gratitude to you and your family. And I want to also say that while we -- historically, we admired your mother, we understand that there had to be some sacrifices by the family for her to do the great things she did. So we want to thank you for your dedication and contribution to a grateful nation. MS. MOORE: Thank you so much. DR. BROWN: I, too, must tell you that I move to really embrace the designs that you and your sister and your family have embraced. I do recognize the comments that my colleagues have made. I must admit that they are more the, in fact, are the sculptor and the engraver person. I'm just, in fact, a citizen who happens to be a physician. And, by the way, math was my major, but I thence decided that I need to do something other than that because it was getting a bit tough, so I chose medicine. So I want to, again, thank you for www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 36 this. And for my colleagues, I'm certainly -- I like the Obverse 7. It's really lively. It makes, in fact, her really stand out, and I'm glad to hear that this was around the time that she was making her contributions. With respect to the reverse, I, too, can align with both ones. I'm certainly -- virtual connectivity interruption -- Don's suggestion and also if the family is receptive to go with the Reverse, that is Reverse 8, I'm happy to do that as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you, Dr. Brown. And well put. And Jeanne, I understand you're on the line. I think you joined. Would you like to -- MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Yes, I'm on the line. Yes, I'm here. And I'm sorry that I missed Dr. Brown's dialogue. MR. WEINMAN: Jeanne, mute your computer when you're speaking on the phone. Mute your computer when you're speaking on the phone. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Now, can you hear www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 37 me? I did mute. MS. WARREN: The sound from the computer is going on to the phone, Jeanne. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: MS. WARREN: Yes. If you just turn the volume off on your computer, if you turn the volume all the way down, that should work. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: you. Hello? Brilliant. Thank No. MS. LANNIN: No. You're good now. Go on. MR. WEINMAN: That's perfect. Go. You're good. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Can you hear me? MR. WEINMAN: Yes. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for solving this problem. Okay. I'm sort of lost in the dialogue that just happened, but I do agree with Reverse Number 8. I think that would be wonderful. I have no idea where we are with obverse -- with the obverses. So my choice would be Number 8, and I agree with www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 38 Mary's comments on what it does it compliments the obverse that was chosen by the daughters, Number 7. So that's my opinion. I'm looking for the wonderful medal to compliment Ms. Johnson's work, and I'm very honored to be a part of this choice. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you. Thank you, Jeanne. And it sounds like some of the members wanted a little bit more of a clarification from Joylette as well as Katherine. If they would like to make a few comments before we vote on the original motion, or if -- as far as is it relates to Reverses 3 and Reverses 8, it sounds like the Committee would really like to hear your thoughts in regards to a preference, one over the other. MS. HYLICK: Well, this is Joylette. Actually, 8 was my first choice. I was a math major and so I looked for the science part anyway. But I like the additional information that was given by Mary because I hadn't thought of it that way because I just still had the other design with the 8 -- Figure 8 -no not that design but the one in my head, the one www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 39 that she liked -- but I'm perfectly happy with Number 8, and I like the reasons that the other members gave for choosing that one. CHAIRMAN URAM: MS. HYLICK: Thank you. And thanks to -- thanks to the -- the comments from everybody about Mom's life. She was great to the very end. And even one of the astronauts asked her and said, "If I go to the moon, would you want to go with me?" heartbeat." And she said, "In a So she was present to the end. Thank you. CHAIRMAN URAM: Very good. Thank you. Katherine? MS. MOORE: is Katherine. I could live -- yes. This I could live with 8, but I looked at the one we chose because I can remember going on Langley's post and seeing the -- the one that -- it's the one in the corner. I've lost my train of thought. The -- the one that came back, that splashed into the -MS. HYLICK: MS. MOORE: Friendship. -- with the chimp -- with www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 40 the chimp in it, and they had that there for display. And so when I saw that, I said, "That's when it started." And the one on the right was when it -- when her career ended. So I was just excited about that and the fact that it said, "Act of Congress 2019." But I can live with either one because the actual award is just priceless. And they can put lines and nothing else on it and I would be happy. I could live with either one. So I like the explanation also. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you. Thank you. So at this time we have a motion on the floor from Donald Scarinci. Donald, would you like to amend this and we can take a regular vote? Or -- it would be up to you and Dr. Brown at this point, and we can take a vote, we can vote accordingly on our sheets. MR. WEINMAN: Mr. Chair, just once again, just for clarification, I can't see fully. Is it -- you know, "Act of Congress" can be added to any design if it's not already on Design Number 8. not? I can't tell from my screen here. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Is it Meeting November 17, 2020 41 MR. TUCKER: This is Dennis. Greg, it is not on Reverse 8. MR. WEINMAN: MR. TUCKER: Okay. The words "Act of Congress." MR. WEINMAN: Yeah, so therefore it could be -- the Committee could move to add it if they wanted to. MS. LANNIN: This is Mary Lannin. Mr. Chair -CHAIRMAN URAM: MS. LANNIN: Yes. -- I agree -- I agree with Dennis that it's not on Number 8. And we can certainly add it on the bottom I would think, or I wonder if could be part of the formula on the obverse. MS. MOORE: Yeah. CHAIRMAN URAM: or Joe on that. Okay. We could ask Ron But at this point we still have this motion to clear up; so, Donald, would you like to proceed and take a vote on this motion? Or would you like to withdraw the motion and we vote accordingly on the -- I think we're all in agreement of Obverse 7. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 42 The question becomes Reverse 3 and Reverse 8. MR. SCARINCI: Well, if we do -- if we do the motion and everybody -- and we have a majority, then we're done; and if we don't have a majority, then we have to deal with the question of "Act of Congress" being added to the new reverse. So let's just do the motion and -CHAIRMAN URAM: MR. SCARINCI: Okay. -- let's just do the motion and see what has the majority. CHAIRMAN URAM: Okay. We have a motion on the floor for Obverse 7 and Reverse 3, second by Dr. Brown. And I will do a rollcall on the motion if it's okay. So you will be voting for this motion up or down. CHAIRMAN URAM: MR. SCARINCI: Donald Scarinci? Yes. CHAIRMAN URAM: MR. MORAN: Michael Moran? Yes. CHAIRMAN URAM: MS. LANNIN: Mary Lannin. No. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 43 CHAIRMAN URAM: MS. SALMON: Robin Salmon. Yes. CHAIRMAN URAM: MR. GILL: Sam Gill. Yes. CHAIRMAN URAM: MR. TUCKER: Dennis Tucker? No. CHAIRMAN URAM: Dr. Dean. DR. KOTLOWSKI: No. CHAIRMAN URAM: Jeanne? MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: No. CHAIRMAN URAM: Dr. Peter van Alfen. DR. VAN ALFEN: No. CHAIRMAN URAM: Tom Uram, Chairman, votes yes. Dr. Brown? DR. BROWN: Yes. CHAIRMAN URAM: five noes. The motion passes. MS. HYLICK: question? We have six yesses and Oh. Okay. Can I ask a This is Joylette. CHAIRMAN URAM: MS. HYLICK: Sure. Sure. Does that mean that you www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 44 would not have "Act of Congress 2019" on the medal anywhere? MS. MOORE: No. MR. WEINMAN: We voted. The motion -- the motion to approve was for your original preferences. MS. MOORE: Original. CHAIRMAN URAM: Right. So it has it on there. MS. HYLICK: MS. MOORE: MS. HYLICK: MS. MOORE: Oh, so you're taking -The original. -- 3 instead of 8? Yes. CHAIRMAN URAM: MS. LANNIN: Yes. Mrs. Hylick, I believe that our engraving department can do almost anything in the whole world -- or the whole moon -- and so if you'd like to make your preference known, now is the time to speak. MS. HYLICK: I agree with the Number -- with the 5, and so I don't -MS. MOORE: MS. HYLICK: It's 8. Sorry. Eight. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 45 MS. MOORE: MS. HYLICK: Eight. with 8. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm saying the 5, the people who voted. CHAIRMAN URAM: Okay. MS. LANNIN: I see what you mean, yes. MS. HYLICK: Yeah. MR. WEINMAN: With -- We're sticking with your original preferences. MS. MOORE: MS. HYLICK: Number 8. No. No, you -- you selected I mean, you selected 3 instead of 5. CHAIRMAN URAM: MS. MOORE: Three instead of 8. Instead of 8. CHAIRMAN URAM: Three instead Obverse 8. MS. HYLICK: I like the logic behind 8, and so that's what I -- that's what I like. MR. MORAN: Tom, this is Mike Moran. CHAIRMAN URAM: MR. MORAN: Joylette's face. Yes, Mike. I just saw the look on I'm going to change my vote from a "yes" to a "no." www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 46 CHAIRMAN URAM: Okay. Let it be noted that Mike Moran has changed his vote from "yes" to "no." So the motion is defeated. And so now we can vote. Would someone like to make another motion, then, to have Obverse 7 and Reverse 8? DR. BROWN: MS. LANNIN: DR. BROWN: This is Dr. Brown -This is Mary --- I'd like to make the motion. CHAIRMAN URAM: DR. BROWN: Dr. Brown? Mm-hmm. CHAIRMAN URAM: And I need a second to the motion. MS. LANNIN: Mary Lannin will second. CHAIRMAN URAM: MR. TUCKER: Okay. Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN URAM: MR. TUCKER: Mary. I think -- Mr. Chairman, before we vote -- this is Dennis Tucker. Should we ask for friendly amendments to address the issue of the wording and possibly add the words "Act of Congress www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 47 2019" to the reverse as discussed? CHAIRMAN URAM: Yes. We can do that now versus doing -- we can do it either way. don't we just do it now. But why That way it's clear. DR. BROWN: This is Dr. Brown. I accept the friendly amendment. CHAIRMAN URAM: MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. This is Mary. CHAIRMAN URAM: I agree. Thank you, Mary. So, Dennis, we will advise the Mint to add that in as an amendment. Rather than doing a rollcall, I think we know where we are, so Michael, thank you -- thank you, Michael, for observing. And, once again, both designs are great and we certainly want to do what's best for the family. And so therefore, we have a motion by Dr. Brown, a second by Mary Lannin, to have Obverse 7 and Reverse 8 -- our recommendation with the amendment to add the appropriate wording of "Congressional Gold Medal. All those in favor, signify by saying www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 48 "aye". COMMITTEE MEMBERS: CHAIRMAN URAM: Aye. Any abstention? Motion carries unanimously. MS. WARREN: Jennifer Warren. Okay. Tom, this is I would also ask the CCAC members, after this call to go ahead and score and do your merit of the designs just so we have it for our artists even though we've done the vote. So if you could just do that after the call, that would be great. And send it to me and Greg. CHAIRMAN URAM: That will be fine. And Joylette -- Joylette and Katherine, on behalf of the entire Committee, congratulations on a well-designed and well -- a tribute to your mother. And our sympathies in its regards it was already echoed. But a true icon and a deserving Congressional Gold Medal. So we thank you for being with us today. // // // // www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 49 CHAIRMAN URAM: Okay. Moving along. We will go now to the Congressional Gold Medals honoring Katherine Johnson. Also, don't forget that we will have -- we finished that, so if I can have my papers back before we move forward here. We'll move on to consideration of obverse and reverse designs for the second of the two medals on the agenda today associated with the Hidden Figures Congressional Gold Medal Act. Megan Sullivan, Senior Design Specialist will present the candidate obverse and reverse designs for the second medal -- the Congressional Gold Medal honoring Dr. Christine Darden. Megan? MS. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In accordance with Public Law 116-68, the Hidden Figures Congressional Gold Medal Act awards a Congressional Gold Medal to Dr. Christine Darden to commemorate her life and her contributions to the success of NASA during the Space Race. Dr. Darden was born on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 50 September 10, 1942, in Monroe, North Carolina. In 1962, she graduated from Hampton Institute with a B.S. in Mathematics and a teaching credential. Dr. Darden attended Virginia State University, where she studied aerosol physics and earned a Masters of Science Degree in Applied Mathematics. She began her career in aeronautics in 1967 as a data analyst at NASA's Langley Research Center before being promoted to aerospace engineer in 1973. Her work in this position resulted in the production of low-boom sonic effects, which revolutionized aerodynamics design. Dr. Darden completed her education by earning a Ph.D. in Mechanical Engineering from George Washington University in 1983. While working at NASA, Dr. Darden was appointed to be the leader of the Sonic Boom Team, which worked on designs to minimize the effect of sonic booms by testing wing and nose designs for supersonic aircraft. She wrote more than 50 articles on aeronautics design and became the first African American to be promoted to a position in the Senior www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 51 Executive Service at Langley. Throughout her illustrious career, Dr. Darden has lived by a formula she conceived of called "The Four Ps," or "P4," which stands for "Perceive, Plan, Prepare, and Persist." After deciding she really loved math, Dr. Darden "perceived" herself as a mathematician, "planned" what she must do to become a mathematician, "prepared" to work the plan, and "persisted" in her journey and refused to quit. In developing this portfolio, we were honored to work directly with Dr. Christine Darden who is here with us today, and we are so honored to have her here. Dr. Darden, would you like to say a few words? DR. DARDEN: I would just like to say that I am very honored to be here and very pleased to have watched the discussion that I have just seen. It's really an honor to be here. MS. SULLIVAN: And thank you. Thank you so much. As with the last portfolio, I will go through the designs www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 52 highlighting -- reading the descriptions of the designs that Dr. Darden has indicated are her preferences. So we begin with Obverse 3, Obverse 11, Obverse 11A, Obverse 24. Obverse 24 is one of -- is Dr. Darden's preferred obverse design. It depicts a portrait of Dr. Darden holding a model plane. The inscriptions are "Dr. Darden, P4" and "Perceive, Plan, Prepare, Persist." Moving on to Design 24A, and then on to the reverse designs. 5. Reverse Design 2, Reverse Design This is Dr. Darden's preferred reverse design. It depicts her guiding principles as an inscription namely, "Perceive, Plan, Prepare, Persist." The stars symbolize her four decades of service at NASA, while the graph shows a sonic boom cone hitting the ground explaining in visual form some of the mathematical formulas that describe the air pressures involved in Sonic Boom Minimization. Additional inscriptions read "Sonic Boom Minimization Leader at Nasa for 14 Years" and "Dr. Christine Darden." www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 53 Dr. Darden has asked that if this design is selected, that the four Ps, "Perceive, Plan, Prepare, Persist," be removed because they are featured on her preferred obverse and then the entire design being shifted and perhaps the text up-sized. On to Design -- Reverse Design 8, Reverse Design 13A, Reverse 14, and Reverse 16. Mr. Chairman, that concludes the design presentation for this Congressional Gold Medal. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you, Megan. And, Dr. Darden, thanks for being with us this morning. DR. DARDEN: Thank you. CHAIRMAN URAM: Now I ask if we have any comments from Ron Harrigal to share with the Committee about the design or Joe Menna regarding the design. Joe? MR. MENNA: Yes, for that reverse, we could just remove the text along the top. The inscription along the top could be removed, and the artwork itself could be enlarged and fill that space www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 54 quite nicely. there. So I think you have a beautiful design And I think all the designs are really exceptional, the reverse especially and the obverse. CHAIRMAN URAM: very good observation. Thank you, Joe. Very, Thank you. Ron? MR. HARRIGAL: right there. I think Joe said it They're all -- they're all good designs, and I think the choices selected would make it an excellent medal. Thank you. CHAIRMAN URAM: Very good, Ron. Thank you. Are there any other technical or legal questions the Committee would like to talk about these designs before we begin our general discussion? Okay, let us begin. MS. SALMON: This is Robin Salmon. CHAIRMAN URAM: MS. SALMON: Yes, Robin. Don't we need "Act of Congress" somewhere on one of the sides? MR. TUCKER: This is Dennis Tucker. Robin, I don't believe that that's legislated or www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 55 required. I do think that it's a nice addition when we can have some sort of recognition in the text of the medal, but this is not just an art medal or a table medal or a private commemorative, but it's actually a national medal, a Congressional Gold Medal. So I -- I always give a little bit of preference to designs that include that recognition. MR. WEINMAN: is correct. And this is Greg. Dennis It's not a legislated requirement, but by tradition it is usually almost always put on a Congressional Gold Medal, either on the reverse or the obverse. CHAIRMAN URAM: Joe, could you just -- looking at those two, the Obverse 24 and Reverse 5, is it possible to add that in there should it -- should it be decided to? And how -- how will that affect this? MR. MENNA: Joe Menna. Yes, sir. This is On the reverse where that -- that larger inscription is going to be removed because of redundancy, we could easily fit "Act of Congress" in an arc across the top and still enlarge the art work a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 56 bit. So you would still have a very balanced medal. MR. TUCKER: May I comment on that? This is Dennis Tucker. CHAIRMAN URAM: Sure, Dennis. Go ahead. MR. TUCKER: Joe, are you suggesting that "Act of Congress 2019" be arced along the top? MS. MENNA: Yeah. MR. TUCKER: Why not? The reason I ask is because -- and this is another thing that I sometimes wrestle with when it comes to Congressional Gold Medal designs is the information hierarchy of the text. If you look at Obverse 11, for example, the words "Act of Congress 2019" are given equal weight to Dr. Darden's name. And, obviously, her name is the more important of those two elements. So just from a design perspective, I would recommend making, in this case, "Act of Congress 2019" smaller. And I think I made the same -MR. MENNA: MR. TUCKER: I --- recommendation for Reverse 5 -- either put her name arcing along the top www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 57 and position the "Act of Congress" wording underneath in some smaller font or whatever you feel makes sense as the chief engraver and design expert. MR. MENNA: mean to overplay my time. This is Joe again. I don't But, yeah, I didn't mean to imply that it would be as big as "Perceive, Plan, Prepare, and Persist." I just -- you can have it in smaller letters up there, smaller inscription, or do what -- exactly what you said and put it on the obverse. Either way we can fit -- we can fit it on there. CHAIRMAN URAM: Okay. Thank you, Joe. Why don't we -- now that we've heard that, why don't we continue on with our consideration. I'd like all members to please try and keep their comments to five minutes or less and identify yourself when you start. We will be -- keep tracking of the time and will indicate when time is up and ask you to please wrap up your comments. Additionally, if any members have questions, comments to anything to discuss, please refrain and bring them up when you are recognized at www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 58 the end for any additional comments. So let's begin with Dr. Brown. Dr. Brown? MR. WEINMAN: You're muted, Dr. Brown. Un-mute yourself. DR. BROWN: Thank you. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. Lawrence Brown. This is And, you know, one of the things that certainly is interesting when you, in fact, have a lot of video conferencing, you finally get to be a little bit more adept with, in fact, coming off mute and coming on mute. With respect to the designs, I want to really thank the artists because I think that we certainly owe them a debt of gratitude for the work that they've done and that -- I also want to really appreciate Dr. Darden for the work that you've done because were it not for you to do the work that you've done, we wouldn't be here today. With respect to the choices, I prefer -- I really embrace the things that she has, in fact, embraced in terms of her first choices, and I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 59 love the fact that Joe says that we can add the font in a smaller font to make sure that she is still, in fact, the headline. I think this would be a wonderful opportunity, Mr. Chair. So that's how I would vote. The selection that she chose would be my top ones. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you, Dr. Brown. Donald Scarinci. MR. WEINMAN: Donald? Un-mute yourself, Donald. MR. SCARINCI: Yeah, I'm supporting the recipient's selections. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you, Donald. Mike Moran? MR. MORAN: the selections as made. Ditto. I support the -- I would suggest the "Act of Congress" actually be behind the jet, not over it or in front of it on the reverse. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you. Thank you, Mike. Mary? MR. MORAN: -- to the right of the tail. MS. LANNIN: This is Mary Lannin. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Did Meeting November 17, 2020 60 you call me, Mr. Uram? CHAIRMAN URAM: MS. LANNIN: Okay. CHAIRMAN URAM: MS. LANNIN: Yes. You're on. Dr. Darden, it must be really interesting to look at your face in sketches at all different age -- points of age in your life and wonder "Who is that person? What did she do?" Thank you so much for being with us. I'm going to be a little bit of a contrarian. love this. Roger, if you could go to Obverse 11. I This is -- the tilt of the chin is -- shows a lot of pride like, "Look what I did." The jets flying, you know, and -- and breaking beyond the circle. "Act of Congress" I say is right up front in your face, and I just really like the boldness of this. The initial one that you picked, Dr. Darden, seemed a little tentative to me. It looked like a young girl when someone handed her a model. It -- it didn't look like you took ownership of that to me. That's just my impression. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 61 Regarding the reverses, I fell in love with the first one in our portfolio. I just think that as a -- as a piece of art, this is wonderful. We could remove "Act of Congress," we could remove "Act of Congress" from the first side. the jets are flying. I just love the way And so my choice for you -- if you want to consider it -- would be Number 11 for the obverse and Number 2 for the reverse. Thank you so much, and I enjoy meeting you. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you, Mary. Robin? MS. SALMON: This is Robin Salmon. I agree with the honoree's choices. CHAIRMAN URAM: Robin. Okay. Thank you, Thank you. Sam? MR. GILL: Mr. Chairman, I support the -- Dr. Darden's recommendations and I'm very, very honored that she could join us today. CHAIRMAN URAM: Yes. Thank you. Very good. you. Dennis Tucker. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Thank Meeting November 17, 2020 62 MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. And, Dr. Darden, thank you so much for everything you've done for our nation. I have a daughter who is going to be turning five soon, and I love the plan, and the life philosophy that you've mapped out for her here, and -and through your work. And I -- the "Perceive, Plan, Prepare, and Persist," that's wonderful, and you are a great hero and someone that she can look up to, and I appreciate that. Thank you. My -- in terms of the designs, I actually agree with Mary. caught my eye. Obverse 11 was the one that And I love the action of it. Action is not something that we always get in Congressional Gold Medals so that was appealing to me, and I like the portrait as well. Congress 2019." It has the words "Act of Again, if we use this design, I would recommend that that be made a bit smaller. And then for the reverse, I liked -- I liked Reverse 8. Again, to me, it shows that kind of high-speed action, but I -- I do like Reverse 5 as well. And I think if we used Reverse 5 with www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 63 Obverse 11, then we would not have to remove the "Perceive, Plan, Prepare, Persist" wording. That could stay as it is and -- and we could leave that design as it's been designed. So, again, thank you. I appreciate everything that you've done for your nation, and it's an honor to work on your Congressional Gold Medal. Thank you, Mr. Chair. CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you, Dennis. Dr. Dean? DR. KOTLOWSKI: honor to be with you today. Dr. Darden, it's an I -- I'm going to go through several designs here. Looking at Obverse Number 11, I went back and forth with this one. really appreciated the energy. I We get a sense of almost the whole story being told here in a very elegant way. I guess my only reservation is that at times I looked at it and it looks a little bit busy. And so I was really torn between Number 11 and Number -- Obverse 24, which was your preference. And I'm leaning toward your preference because that's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 64 generally what I tend to do with these Congressional Gold Medals. I think the "Perceive, Plan, Prepare, Persist" is so good and so inspiring. the "P4" there. I like having I think that that's very good. I don't want to push this, and I don't want to be in any way disrespectful, but just as an option, if anyone thinks that P4 there is a little redundant. You could remove that and put a small "Act of Congress" in place of the P4. And my big problem with Reverse 5 was that it was a little too -- too textural, and the design was too small. So I worry that adding "Act of Congress" there, we're going to have something similar to what we have now. wanted it bigger. And I like that design, but I And removing the "Perceive, Plan, Prepare, Persist," is -- like you said, like has been said, it's going to make it bigger, but maybe not as -- as it could be if we have to put "Act of Congress" there. So I'm giving you a lot to think about and the committee members a lot to think about. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I'd Meeting November 17, 2020 65 be very curious if anybody was thinking along my lines. I'm just going to add something about the artists here and the other designs for the reverse. went back and forth with Number 8 -- Reverse 08. I I -- at times, I really liked it; at times I really didn't. I'm not sure that the circles are going to be meaningful to people who would pick this up and look at it. But this is where I'm a little bit of a contrarian, and I admit I'm probably out in left field or right field or wherever, but I like Reverse 13, and I like Reverse 16. And I liked Reverse 13 -- sorry to make you keep going back and forth here -- because of the explanation about how this is the NASA design and the model aircraft. And I just thought it was a really great design with the stars, and it's very classical. Again, you would run into the problem with "Perceive, Plan, Prepare, Persist," so I'm not sure that's worth pursuing, but I want to compliment the artists. And then just on 16, again, I know the -- circularity and the way that this was conceived www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 66 has the -- virtual connectivity interruption -elements. CHAIRMAN URAM: Dean? Are you still DR. KOTLOWSKI: Yeah, I'm still here. there? I said I was done. I think we got interrupted. CHAIRMAN URAM: Oh, I didn't hear you. I figured that was Ron's dog, not mine. under control right now. I have mine But his doorbell rang. Anyhow, thank you, Dean. Jeanne? MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Mr. Chairman. here. Thank you, And thank you, Dr. Darden, for being This is quite an honor to actually have someone here to talk about their gold medal preferences. Unfortunately, I'm going to go a little off beat. And I do agree with Mary Lannin and her choice of Number 11 on -- on the obverse. correct? Yes. Is that When I saw this, I was overwhelmed. It was -- it's a beautiful portrait. I think it's a beautiful portrait of you and it -- it gives us such an inspiration of the -- what you stand for. And I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 67 think that this is going to make a beautiful medal. I love -- I love these aircrafts. I love everything about this, and it's a good design in my opinion. I do agree with Dennis that we could maybe put "Act of Congress" in a little bit smaller font; but, to me, this is -- this is an exquisite design. And my compliments to the artists who did this. As for Obverse 24, I -- I don't think it has quite the power, in my opinion, as Number 11. This is a beautiful, beautiful design. I love what it says, but I -- I don't feel that it's as powerful as Number 11. And to go to reverse, the reverses, again, I'm a little -- I liked Number 5, your choice, which I think is hugely honorable, but I truly love Number 2. Number 2, again, is a powerful -- in my opinion, a powerful design. Go to Number 2, please. Number 2. Number 2. Yes. Reverse Thank you. It says a lot. And I think that this is going to be -- the negative space is very important www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 68 where on my choice of Obverse Number 11 there's a lot going on there. But this, when you turn that medal over, you have a little bit of relief of all the information. So I think that those -- those are my preferences. And, again, thank you for what you've done for our country, for our moon technology. I think that's fabulous. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. MR. WEINMAN: You're muted, Tom. Tom, you're muted. CHAIRMAN URAM: Dr. Peter van Alfen? And thank you, Jeanne. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: DR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you. Thank you, Tom. As an aviation enthusiast with a room full of model airplanes at home, I have to say it's a real honor to be here with you today, Dr. Darden. I am happy to support the recommendations that you have. Just a few comments. I -- I do find Obverse 11 quite powerful; but, you know, like my colleague, I do find it a little busy as well, which was why my preference www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 69 for 24, I think of -- you know, my preference would be for Obverse 24. And I -- I find that all of the reverses just exceptionally wonderful. And, you know, again, anything that has airplanes on it, you know, will capture my attention. Like Jeanne, I -- I really do have a preference for Obverse -- or Reverse 2. I do find it's really quite appealing both in its, you know, minimal aspects as well as just the -- the energy of it, you know, with the planes in flight there. One question I do have for you, though, Dr. Darden. I mean, I -- I have been able to recognize most of the airplanes, but the model that you're holding on Obverse 24, it is something I don't recognize. And I was wondering if -- if you could just make a few comments about that and -- and I'll just wrap up my -- my comments with that. And thank you. DR. DARDEN: Okay. When I first started working on sonic boom minimization, I was given a technical paper where a couple of Cornell professors had been thinking about some ideas about www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 70 how to minimize the sonic boom. I took their report, followed their equations, I wrote a computer program of that and the output of that was equivalent area. And we -- we had to design the airplanes to match that equivalent area based on the -- the numbers: the length, the weight, and the altitude. And so the small plane I'm holding in 24 was a Mach 2 design that I designed. We went -- we tested it in the wind tunnel, and it was just from the wind tunnel results initially that we saw that we were getting a difference in the sonic boom signature by this design. And when we did a demonstration that is shown on the Reverse 2, the one with the -- the things on the side of that airplane, they actually -- we actually used that computer program and the equivalent area that comes out of it to change the model that actually demonstrated at 45 -- 40,000 feet, that this does indeed reduce the sonic boom signature. And so they were -- that's -- that's kind of the stories of the airplanes there. And this is the demonstrator that you see at the top of -- with www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 71 the signature images on the side of the airplane. MR. WEINMAN: Peter, you're muted. DR. VAN ALFEN: fantastic. again. Oh, yeah. That's Very informative, and I -- I thank you Thank you for everything that you've done. DR. DARDEN: Thank you. CHAIRMAN URAM: Dr. Peter, thank you. And before we do our scoring, I'd like to ask, Dr. Darden, it's not too often or very -hardly at all in my years that I've been on the Committee that we actually have the recipient with us. And so please take your time and you -- I think the Committee -- it would be helpful for the Committee. You heard our discussion on Obverse 24 and 11. You've heard the discussion on Reverses 2, 5, 8, and 13 for the most part. Can we ask you to express your thoughts on -- on, you know, how you feel about this? DR. DARDEN: Well, let me first say that my second choice were what everybody else chose except on Obverse 11, I chose 11A because there were -- well, I guess I liked the smile, but it was -except for that. And the reverse on that I had chosen www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 72 was the Reverse 2 -- 02, so -- and that was chosen by several people. So everybody was pretty much the same except they didn't want me smiling on this -- virtual connectivity interruption -And so these -- these were my choices. And I guess everybody understands that this is the sonic boom pressure field here that -- and all of the disturbances generated by that airplane are contained within the cone. the ground. And that cone goes all the way to And if the airplane is going across country, that cone goes across country all the way disturbing the ground. And so I -- I think I liked -- I liked myself on both of -- both of the pictures. And I think having the airplane there was one of -- I actually had them change the airplane that I was holding because that is the one that I gave my first technical paper on and tested it in the wind tunnel and -- and all of that. But I feel -- I feel pretty good about both -- both coins. And you know, whichever -- and I -- as I was talking, I had instead removed the words I was www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 73 actually looking at the back of this one as to where to put "Congressional Act 2019" and wondering where it could fit in there. like both. So I -- I -- I actually like -- This one looks a little bit more like me when I was at the age I was when I was working on that airplane. So -MS. LANNIN: Dr. Darden? DR. DARDEN: Yes. MR. WEINMAN: MS. LANNIN: You're mute, Tom. This is Mary Lannin. This is the one that sort of started this whole conversation going. I picked Number 11 because of the look on your face. It's not that you don't have a beautiful smile, but it was that kind of quiet, serene "Guess what? I did this" look. That's what got to me: that you knew that you had done everything that was pictured on the obverse of this medal. You know, that's -- it's -- it's the quiet power of it. DR. DARDEN: Yeah. MS. LANNIN: That's what I loved about www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 74 it. So, anyway, that's all I have to say. But thank you. CHAIRMAN URAM: All right, so it's -- it's safe to say, though, that Number 24 is kind of a little bit special in the fact that you're actually holding your first -- the first model and what you did your paper on. DR. DARDEN: Well, that is true. I, actually -- I, actually, like them both. don't know that I would have a choice. And, And I I mean, if -- if there is a difference in one is more of a medal and it's easier to work with and things like that, I could -- I could live with that, but -CHAIRMAN URAM: you what. Okay. Well, I'll tell Why don't the members please take out your score sheets, and if there's no further, we'll -we'll do the scoring of the obverse and reverse designs for the Congressional Gold Medal honoring Dr. Christine Darden. Each of you received the e-mail and the packet from the U.S. Mint and should have received a copy of the score sheet. I'd ask that you please fill www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 75 that in and either cut and paste and e-mail it, and please send your scoring sheets to Mint Counsel Greg Weinman. Greg will tally the scores and will present the results in a few minutes. So let's take -- what would you say, Greg, 5 or 10 minutes? MS. WARREN: Greg, you're muted. MR. WEINMAN: Let's give it 10 minutes if that's okay. CHAIRMAN URAM: Okay. So if everyone, please fill in your score, and we'll be back in 10. MS. WARREN: So everyone, that's about 12:30 -- a little before. (Off the record.) CHAIRMAN URAM: The tabulation on the votes. MR. WEINMAN: The scoring is complete. Out of possible 33 points, as everybody is in attendance today, on the obverses, Obverse 3 -Obverse 3 received 6 votes. Obverse 11A received 8. Obverse 11 received 21. Obverse 24 received 26 making it the Committee's recommendation. Obverse 24A www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 76 received 8. Moving on to the reverses. Reverse 2 received 23 votes, while Reverse 5 received 24 votes. Very close, but 20 -- that means Reverse 5 would be the Committee's default recommendation. received 8 votes. Reverse 8 Reverse 13A received 11. Reverse 14 received 6, and Reverse 16 received 7. MS. WARREN: Tom, you have to un-mute yourself. CHAIRMAN URAM: you very much. Okay. Great. Thank And with that the Committee, based on the vote, has selected Obverse 24 and Reverse 5. I think that we probably have a motion that we will need for Reverse Number 5. If anyone, at this time, would like to make that motion. DR. BROWN: Mr. Chair, this is Lawrence Brown. CHAIRMAN URAM: DR. BROWN: I'd like to make -- CHAIRMAN URAM: DR. BROWN: Dr. Brown. Go ahead, Dr. Brown. This is Lawrence Brown. I'd like to make that motion. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 77 CHAIRMAN URAM: DR. BROWN: Okay. Obverse 5 and Reverse 24. CHAIRMAN URAM: And Obverse 24, Reverse 5. DR. BROWN: I'm sorry. CHAIRMAN URAM: Yeah. And then would you like to make the motion for the -- the wording to be changed on Reverse Number 5 that would delete the four Ps and add Congressional -DR. BROWN: I would agree. CHAIRMAN URAM: Okay. We have a motion on the floor with an amendment as well to amend that design. Do we have a second? MR. GILL: MS. SALMON: Sam Gill. This is Robin Salmon. CHAIRMAN URAM: what. I second. Sam, I'll tell you Robin has chimed in twice now, and I'm going to give -- in all -- if you don't mind, Sam, I'll give it to -- I'll leave it up to Robin this time. She tries. So Robin is second -MR. GILL: That will be just fine with www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 78 me. CHAIRMAN URAM: No problem. Okay. Robin, you'll be the second on this. And at this time, I'd like to take a vote on this motion. Everyone in favor, signify by saying "aye." COMMITTEE MEMBERS: CHAIRMAN URAM: Aye. Opposed? Thank you. The motion passes unanimously with the Obverse 24, Reverse 5, and the amendment as stated by Dr. Brown's motion and Robin. Are there any other things to come before the committee today? there are. I don't believe that I'd like to thank the members, and especially, Dr. Darden, thank you for being with us. It's been a true honor on behalf of the entire Committee and what a tremendous tribute. And I think you're going to have a wonderful recognition of all of your lifetime accomplishments and well-deserving. So thank you again for being with us. DR. DARDEN: Thank you very much. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It's Meeting November 17, 2020 79 been a pleasure being here. Wonderful. // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // // www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 80 CHAIRMAN URAM: Thank you. And I'd like to thank all the CCAC Members, the staff and everyone else in attendance on the videoconference meeting today. The next CCAC meeting will take place on March 23rd and 24th of 2021, it will be announced in the Federal Register. And a decision will be made depending on the current situation with COVID-19 whether it would be in person at the United States Mint Headquarters or teleconference. Before we adjourn, I'd like to wish everyone a safe and blessed holiday season and a Happy Thanksgiving in particular as we give thanks for what we really do have. And some of this is -- with the situation is certainly reminded us of what's important. And I want to thank the entire committee again, and I hope that you all have a blessed season. At this time, I'd like to take a motion to adjourn. DR. KOTLOWSKI: Motion to adjourn. DR. VAN ALFEN: Motion to adjourn. CHAIRMAN URAM: All those in favor, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 81 signify by saying "aye." COMMITTEE MEMBERS: CHAIRMAN URAM: Aye. Opposed? Thank you -- thank you all very much. (Whereupon, the meeting concluded at 12:34 p.m.) www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 82 CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC I, ANDREW ADAMS, the officer before whom the foregoing proceedings were taken, do hereby certify that any witness(es) in the foregoing proceedings, prior to testifying, were duly sworn; that the proceedings were recorded by me and thereafter reduced to typewriting by a qualified transcriptionist; that said digital audio recording of said proceedings are a true and accurate record to the best of my knowledge, skills, and ability; that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties to the action in which this was taken; and, further, that I am not a relative or employee of any counsel or attorney employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. ANDREW ADAMS Notary Public in and for Washington, District of Columbia www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 17, 2020 83 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER I, ESTHER M. TAYLOR, do hereby certify that this transcript was prepared from the digital audio recording of the foregoing proceeding, that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings to the best of my knowledge, skills, and ability; that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties to the action in which this was taken; and, further, that I am not a relative or employee of any counsel or attorney employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. ESTHER M. TAYLOR www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376