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Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 1 1 2 3 CCAC Meeting 4 5 6 Tuesday, November 15, 2022 7 10:00 am – 12:00 pm (ET) 8 Video Conference Meeting 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 2 1 2 3 4 ATTENDEES Lawrence Brown, M.D., Chairperson of the CCAC Arthur Bernstein, Representing the general public Harcourt Fuller, Ph.D., Recommended by the Speaker of the House 5 6 7 8 Mary Lannin, Recommended by the House Minority Leader Robin Salmon, Qualified in Medalic Arts/Sculpture Donald Scarinci, Recommended by the Senate Minority Leader 9 Dennis Tucker, Qualified in numismatics 10 Peter Van Alfen, Ph.D. Qualified in numismatics 11 12 Jennifer Warren, Director of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs, and Mint Liaison to the CCAC 13 Brandon Hall, Whitman Publishing Senior Editor 14 Paul Gilkes, Founder and editor 15 Amos Media, Coin World Senior Editor 16 Mike Unser, Coin News Media Group 17 April Stafford, Chief Officer of Design Management 18 Megan Sullivan, Senior Design Specialist 19 Robert Vasquez, Senior Design Manager 20 Pam Borer, Design Manager 21 Russell Evans, Design Manager 22 Boneza Hanchock, Design Manager 23 Michael Costello, Manager of Design and Engraving 24 25 Greg Weinman, Senior Legal Counsel and Counsel to the CCAC www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 3 1 Robin Terry, Legal Counsel to the Ghost Army Congressional Gold Medal 2 Brendan Tate, Senior Government Affairs Specialist 3 and Office of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs 4 Rick Beyer, President of the Ghost Army Legacy 5 Project 6 Roy Eichhorn, Board member of the Ghost Army Legacy Project 7 Stephanie Leech, daughter of a member of the Ghost 8 Army 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 4 1 2 P R O C E E D I N G S DR. BROWN: And a pleasant good morning to 3 everyone. 4 call to order this meeting of the Citizens 5 Coinage Advisory Committee for Tuesday -- for 6 Tuesday, November 15th, 2022. 7 remind everyone -- remind each member of the 8 committee to make -- to make sure the mute his 9 or her phone or microphone on their Microsoft It's good Tuesday morning, and I I would like to 10 teams when we are not talking, and to announce 11 our names at the beginning of each time that we 12 speak. 13 this is a listen only hearing, and to mute your 14 phones and your microphones, if indeed for 15 whatever reason, you're able to use them. 16 Before we begin, I want to introduce Additionally, I remind the public that 17 members of the committee. 18 respond present when I call your name. 19 Representing the General Public, Arthur 20 Bernstein. 21 22 23 24 25 MR. BERNSTEIN: Members, please Arthur Bernstein is present. DR. BROWN: Recommended by the Speaker of the House, Dr. Harcourt Fuller. MR. FULLER: Harcourt Fuller is present. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 5 1 DR. BROWN: Specifically qualified in 2 American history, Dr. Dean Kotlowski. 3 move forward. 4 Recommended by the House Minority Leader, Mary 5 Lannin. We will He may be just joining us. 6 MS. LANNIN: 7 DR. BROWN: 8 Majority Leader. 9 with us. Mary Lannin is here. Recommended by the Senate I'm sorry, Mike will not be Moving forward. Specifically 10 Qualified in Medallic Arts or Sculpture, Robin 11 Salmon. 12 MS. SALMON: 13 DR. BROWN: Robin Salmon is present. Recommended by the Senate 14 Minority Leader, Donald Scarinci. 15 catch up with us later. 16 Specifically Qualified in Numismatics, Dennis 17 Tucker. 18 MR. TUCKER: 19 DR. BROWN: 20 He will Moving forward. Present. Specifically Qualified as a Numismatist Curator, Dr. Peter van Alfen. 21 DR. VAN ALFEN: 22 DR. BROWN: Peter van Alfen present. And I am Dr. Lawrence Brown, 23 representing the General Public and Chair of 24 the CCAC. 25 quorum. By my count I believe we have a For today -- the agenda for today's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 6 1 public meeting includes the following: 2 Acceptance of the letters to the Secretary and 3 approval of the minutes for our September 27th, 4 2022 meeting; review and approval of the 2022 5 Annual Report; and lastly, but not leastly, 6 review and discussion of the candidate designs 7 for the Ghost Army Congressional Gold Medal. 8 Before we begin our proceedings, I ask the Mint 9 Liaison to the CCAC, Ms. Jennifer Warren, if we 10 are aware of any members of the press who have 11 remotely signed in for this public meeting. 12 MS. WARREN: 13 Jennifer Warren. 14 know, Dean is having technical difficulties, so 15 he will not be able to attend, and I believe 16 Donald is running slightly late, just so you're 17 aware of the members attendance. 18 today is Brandon Hall, Whitman Publishing, Paul 19 Gilkes, Amos Media-Coin World, and Mike Unser, 20 Coin News Media Group. 21 DR. BROWN: Good morning, sir. This is And also just to let you Joining us Thank you so much. For the 22 record, I'd like to confirm that the following 23 Mint staff are attending the meeting today. 24 Please indicate present as I have called your 25 name. April Stafford, Chief Office of Design www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 7 1 Management, Megan Sullivan Senior Design 2 Specialist. 3 MS. SULLIVAN: 4 DR. BROWN: 5 Present. Roger Vasquez, Senior Design Manager. 6 MR. VASQUEZ: 7 DR. BROWN: Pam Borer, Design Manager. 8 MS. BORER: Present. 9 DR. BROWN: Russell Evans, Design Manager. 10 MR. EVANS: Present. 11 DR. BROWN: Boneza Hanchock, Design 12 Present. Manager. 13 MS. HANCHOCK: 14 DR. BROWN: 15 Present. Michael Costello, Manager of Design and Engraving. 16 MR. COSTELLO: 17 DR. BROWN: Present. Jennifer Warren, Director of 18 Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs and 19 Liaison to the CCAC. 20 MS. WARREN: 21 DR. BROWN: 22 23 24 25 Jennifer Warren is present. Greg Weinman, Senior Legal Counsel and Counsel to the CCAC. MS. WEINMAN: Good morning, Dr. Brown. Present. DR. BROWN: Robin Terry, Legal Counsel to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 8 1 the Ghost Army Congressional Gold Medal. 2 MS. TERRY: Present. 3 DR. BROWN: Brandon Tate, Senior 4 Governmental -- Government Affairs Specialist 5 and Office of Legislative and Intergovernmental 6 Affairs. 7 MR. TATE: 8 DR. BROWN: 9 Present. And finally, we are pleased that the following liaisons will be on the call 10 today for the Ghost Army Congressional Medal. 11 That includes Rick Beyer, President of the 12 Ghost Army Legacy Project. 13 14 15 16 MR. BEYER: Present. present. DR. BROWN: Roy Eichhorn, Board member of the Ghost Army Legacy Project. 17 MR. EICHHORN: 18 DR. BROWN: 19 Rick Beyer is Roy Eichhorn present. And Stephanie -- Stephanie Leech, daughter of a member of the Ghost Army. 20 MS. LEECH: 21 MS. STAFFORD: 22 DR. BROWN: 23 MS. STAFFORD: Stephanie Leech present. Dr. Brown? Yes, ma'am. This is April Stafford. I 24 said present, but I had my microphone off, so I 25 apologize. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 9 1 DR. BROWN: No apology necessary, but 2 thank you so much. 3 Mint, and ask if there are there any other 4 issues that need to be addressed before we 5 start? 6 proceed without any concern on those matters. 7 The first order of business for -- 8 9 I'd like to begin with the Carrying on, and I assume that we may MS. STAFFORD: Dr. Brown, this is April, and I absolutely defer to you, sir. Given that 10 we do have all of the liaisons for the program, 11 it's totally -- totally up to you. 12 know if you would want to perhaps start with 13 that program, so then the committee could 14 concentrate on its administrative matters 15 without concern about timing or anything like 16 that. 17 sit through the review of the interim report if 18 that's preferable. 19 I don't Our representatives are also prepared to DR. BROWN: I think that's a wonderful 20 suggestion, April, and I thank you so much for 21 making it. 22 MS. STAFFORD: Not a problem. I 23 apologize, actually, for not bringing it up 24 earlier. 25 able to bring you this portfolio at this We've -- we're just thrilled to be www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 10 1 2 meeting. DR. BROWN: And I prefer that order, in 3 fact, to be revised as you suggested because 4 for a number of reasons. 5 just got through celebrating Veterans Day. 6 number two, many of the members of the 7 committee, merit by our liaison to let you 8 know, I'm a proud Vietnam veteran, and I served 9 in the Army. Number one, that we And So to speak about something 10 pertaining to the Army, that branch that I 11 believe and, you know, you don't have to swear 12 to this, you don't have to, in fact, talk about 13 those people in the Marines or the Navy or -- 14 But I swear to them, I think this is the best 15 branch. 16 move, change the order of the meeting to, in 17 fact, deal with the item on the agenda dealing 18 with the gold Army -- Ghost Army Congressional 19 Gold Medal, and for that, unless there's any 20 concern by anyone, by Jennifer or Greg, then 21 I'm going to suggest that we proceed in that 22 direction. 23 you can give a report and introduce the 24 stakeholders as appropriate so that you can 25 give us this program. So I'm loving the idea that we will And thus begin with you, April. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 If Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 11 1 MS. STAFFORD: Absolutely, if there are no 2 issues, I'll go ahead and provide an 3 introduction for this program. 4 much, Dr. Brown. 5 awards a Congressional Gold Medal to the 23rd 6 Headquarters Special Troops and the 3133rd 7 Signal Service Company, collectively known as 8 the Ghost Army, in recognition of their unique 9 and highly distinguished service in conducting Thank you so It is public law 117-85 that 10 deception operations during World War II. 11 Ghost Army were U.S. Army tactical units that 12 deceived the German Army on the battlefields of 13 Europe, saving thousands of lives and making a 14 significant contribution to allied victory. 15 The Ghost Army was unique in the variety of 16 media employed, and its ability to portray the 17 size and movement of the actual units. 18 utilized four types of deception. 19 visual deception. 20 camouflage engineers deployed an array of 21 inflatable rubber tanks, trucks, artillery, and 22 other vehicles, as well as pyrotechnic displays 23 to create convincing deceptive tableaus for 24 enemy observers. 25 assisted by using bulldozers to create phony The They First, An example here is the 603rd The 406 combat engineers www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 12 1 tank tracks. 2 security. 3 here the 3132nd Signal Service Company, which 4 is a sister unit to the 3133rd, played sound 5 effects from powerful speakers to simulate the 6 sounds of units moving and operating at night. 7 They also employed radio deception. 8 Company special created phony traffic networks 9 and sent fake messages to fool enemy They also handled the 23rd Also, they used sonic deception. So The Signal 10 intelligence officers listening in. 11 mastered the art of mimicking a real operator's 12 method of sending Morse code so that the enemy 13 would never catch on that the real unit and its 14 radio operator were long gone. 15 employed special effects. 16 theatrics for the benefit of enemy spies left 17 behind by the retreating Germans. 18 fake shoulder patches, rode in vehicles with 19 fake bumper markings, pretended to, quote 20 unquote, talk loose at cafes, and even 21 impersonated generals to make their deceptions 22 more convincing. 23 Operations studies and takes inspiration from 24 the wartime activities of these two units. 25 developing the designs, the United States Mint, They Also, they Soldiers carried out They wore Today, our U.S. Army Special www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 In Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 13 1 led by Megan Sullivan, our design manager, 2 worked with three liaisons, Rick Beyer as you 3 mentioned, President of the Ghost Army Legacy 4 Project, Roy Eichhorn, Ghost Army Legacy 5 Project Board member and a stepson of a Ghost 6 Army soldier, and Stephanie Leech, daughter of 7 a Ghost Army soldier. 8 being with us today. 9 any comments you'd like to share with the 10 11 So thank you so much for Mr. Beyer, do you have committee? MR. BEYER: Oh, absolutely. This is Rick 12 Beyer. 13 to thank the Mint and thank April for that 14 terrific summary of the Ghost Army, and I want 15 to compliment all of the artists who submitted 16 designs to the portfolio. 17 the liaisons were deeply impressed with the 18 kind of artistry and creativity, and there were 19 some surprises. 20 at that stuff. 21 course, that this recognition is finally 22 happening. 23 after the war, and after a seven-year lobbying 24 effort. 25 kept three major considerations in mind as we Try to stop me. First of all, I want I think all three of And so it was fabulous to look And we are all very excited, of You know, almost 80 years after -- Very briefly, I want to say that we www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 14 1 were looking at the medals and -- and in making 2 a recommendation about which ones we liked. 3 And one was we wanted to reflect all four kinds 4 of deceptions that April mentioned. 5 people think this is just about inflatable 6 tanks, but it's not. 7 different kinds of deception, visual, sonic, 8 radio and special effects. 9 -- in the -- one of the recommended designs A lot of It's about all these And that's what the 10 that we like is he's sewing a patch onto his 11 shirt, and so that's kind of what's going on 12 there in special effects. 13 medal to contain the insignia. 14 unofficial insignia, but nevertheless very 15 recognizable insignia for each of the units, 16 the 23rd and the 3133rd. 17 to name all the countries or the campaigns, the 18 U.S. Army campaigns, that these units were 19 involved in because again, sometimes people 20 think, oh, this is something that happened, 21 this is D-Day or this is just Normandy. 22 this is something that happens all over 23 Northern Europe and even in Italy. 24 reviewed ourselves and reviewed with some other 25 stakeholders, April, I can say what we Two, we wanted the These are And three, we wanted www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 No, So after we Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 15 1 recommended here, right, I believe. 2 remember. 3 I don't I don't think you said that but -- MS. STAFFORD: Yes, please. I will 4 highlight them as we go through, but please, 5 yes absolutely. 6 MR. BEYER: So we recommended or we 7 unanimously settled on obverse three and 8 reverse five if I've got that correct. 9 correct me if I got it wrong. Roy, And the only 10 things that are missing is we see it now from 11 the medal at this point if we select those two 12 are the words Act of Congress 2022, which the 13 Mint has assured us can easily be put on that 14 obverse side. 15 further as we go along, and after Roy Eichhorn 16 and Stephanie Leech, the other two liaisons get 17 their say, the only other point I really want 18 to mention is that there are only ten soldiers 19 left out of perhaps 1,300 who served in this 20 unit, so we feel the urgency of moving forward 21 and trying to make this happen so that we can 22 honor these soldiers while some of them are 23 still here. 24 remarks. 25 I'm happy to answer questions And with that, I'll close my MS. STAFFORD: Thank you so much. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Did you Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 16 1 say that Mr. Eichhorn or Ms. Leech wanted to 2 say a few words? 3 to them or -- I mean you're welcome to pass 4 MR. BEYER: 5 MS. STAFFORD: 6 MR. BEYER: Yes. Okay. So I will pass to Roy Eichhorn 7 and ask him to speak. 8 to all the things, you said also a 30-year 9 employee of the U.S. Army as well. 10 know, Dr. 11 listen to his remarks. 12 And Roy is, in addition So, you Brown, keep that in mind as you MR. EICHHORN: Good morning. This is Roy 13 Eichhorn. 14 dovetailed on probably the end of your time. 15 spent over 30 years with Department of the Army 16 in various roles, and as I said, my dad was one 17 of the veterans, and he was an illustrator. 18 His entire career was as an artist and 19 illustrator, and that's what kept us fed 20 through the years. 21 First of all, these were citizen soldiers for 22 the most part. 23 numbers of technical experts and artists that 24 they needed in the time that they had, so they 25 reached down to get these folks, and as some of Dr. Brown, thank you. I kind of I A couple of things to add. The Army could not create the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 17 1 them have told us, you know, had it not been 2 for the war, they would never have been 3 anywhere near the Army. 4 group great soldiers, and one of the amazing 5 things is they were told to keep quiet about 6 this for 51 years. 7 declassification, this was top secret, didn't 8 start until 1996. 9 my dad even though I had a security clearance, But they were as a And so the And in my case, for example, 10 he wouldn't tell me anything about what he did. 11 He told me some soldierly kinds of things, but 12 nothing about operations. 13 of an officer last week. 14 veterans who was an officer also had a security 15 clearance. 16 any of it until it was declassified. 17 of what this is about, as much as anything 18 else, is nobody knew about these folks after 19 the war. 20 track of it. 21 is trying to educate people even within the 22 Army, and bring the Ghost Army and its 23 accomplishments up to the present. 24 that's probably it for the moment for me. 25 Subject to your questions, I'm going to hand I talked to the son The son of one of the His father told him nothing about So part Even within the Army, the Army lost So part of what we've been doing www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I think Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 18 1 2 this off to Stephanie. MS. LEECH: Well thank you, Roy. This is 3 Stephanie Leech. 4 Leech. 5 told me nothing either. 6 technician in the fifth grade in the 3133rd 7 Signal Service Company which operated in Italy. 8 As was already noted, the sonic technicians 9 reproduced the sounds of the United States Army 10 at work, and in doing so, drew the attention of 11 the axis guns, along with flexibility of motion 12 to the unit they were replicating. 13 Ghost Army in the 3133rd were sitting ducks 14 with targets on their backs. 15 father's service, in his bravery is 16 overwhelming. 17 thanks to each and every artist for their 18 gorgeous designs. 19 made choosing a final recommendation a 20 formidable task. 21 Sullivan and the Mint for their guidance 22 through the process. 23 would have been traveling blind. 24 for your consideration. 25 MS. SULLIVAN: Again, my name's Stephanie I'm the daughter of Walter Leech who He served as a Yes, the My pride in my I wish to express my heartfelt They were all awesome and Also, thanks to Megan Without her help, we Thank you all Thank you so much. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Dr. Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 19 1 Brown, are you okay if we go ahead and share 2 our screen so that we can start moving through 3 the candidate designs? 4 DR. BROWN: 5 MS. SULLIVAN: Yes, ma'am. Wonderful. Please proceed. All right. 6 We're going to start with the obverse candidate 7 designs. 8 design depicts a group of soldiers assembling 9 an inflatable tank and features the emblems of First we have obverse one. This 10 the 23rd Headquarters Special Troops and the 11 3133rd Signal Service Company. 12 depicts the emblems of the 23rd Headquarters 13 Special Troops and the 3133rd Signal Service 14 Company above the image of a Sherman tank. 15 Inside the central circle, the Ghost Army's 16 trickery gives the appearance of a real tank, 17 while outside the circle, the visual deception 18 is revealed and the tank is an inflatable decoy 19 carried by four soldiers. 20 our liaison noted, this is the preferred 21 obverse of all of our liaisons with whom we 22 worked. 23 methods of subterfuge practiced by the Ghost 24 Army. 25 in Morse code, together with the soldiers Obverse two Obverse three. As Obverse three depicts the four main A telegrapher is shown keying a message www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 20 1 sowing a phony unity patch onto his uniform. 2 In the background, a soldier stands alongside a 3 half track with a loudspeaker attached to it, 4 and behind a group of soldiers carry an 5 inflatable tank. 6 Ghost Army and World War II. 7 depict Ghost Army soldiers setting up 8 inflatable tanks as German planes fly overhead. 9 There we have obverse 4 and 4A. The inscriptions are, the Obverses 4 and 4A Moving on, 10 obverse five features the emblems of the 23rd 11 Headquarters Special Troops and the 3133rd 12 Signal Service Company. 13 the emblem of the 23rd Headquarters Special 14 Troops. 15 have reverse one. 16 four types of deception. 17 mouth while holding a radio transmitter. 18 soldier with his fingers in his ears represents 19 the use of loudspeakers. 20 his eyes represents the various visual 21 deceptions, and the standing figure represents 22 the other theatrical special effects. 23 two depicts an army helmet superimposed over a 24 mask with a partial view of a man's head 25 beneath representing the deception of the eyes Obverse six depicts And moving on to reverse designs. We This design represents the A soldier covers his A A soldier covering www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Reverse Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 21 1 and ears, as well as special effects 2 represented by the empty helmet and mask. 3 Reverse three depicts a speaker used by the 4 Ghost Army to broadcast sounds intended to 5 deceive the enemy about allied movements at 6 night. 7 the fist style used by radio transmitters 8 morphs into a string of morse code spelling 9 deception. At the top, a man's fist representing The code then morphs into a thread 10 through a needle being used to sew a 79th 11 infantry patch atop a 23rd Headquarters Special 12 Troops patch. 13 painting numbers on a vehicle's bumper, a radio 14 tech timing a telegraph communication, and a 15 soldier positioning a turret on top of an 16 inflatable tank representing the special 17 effects audio deception and visual deception 18 undertaken by the Ghost Army. 19 depict the emblems of the 23rd Headquarters 20 Special Troops and the 3133rd Signal Service 21 Company. 22 reverse five for a moment, if you don't mind, 23 because it is reverse five that is the 24 preferred reverse design of all of the 25 liaisons. Reverse four is a soldier I'll stop. Reverse 5 and 5A If we can focus on There is a recommended edit to the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 22 1 obverse that you saw earlier, which would add 2 Act of Congress 2022 arching beneath the -- 3 beneath the Ghost Army inscription at the top. 4 And so therefore, in this reverse design, the 5 date 2022 could also be removed. 6 engraver suggested perhaps placing a star in 7 that location to address the gap that would be 8 created in the design. And I mentioned 5A. 9 Moving on to 6 and 6A. And our chief These designs depict 10 the emblems of the 23rd Headquarters Special 11 Troops and the 3133rd Signal Service Company. 12 And reverse seven depicts the emblem of the 13 3133rd's Signal Service Company and includes a 14 variety of inscriptions which you can see 15 there. 16 candidate designs. 17 And Dr. DR. BROWN: Brown, that concludes the I'll turn it back to you. Thank you so much, April. I 18 really appreciate that. 19 members on the committee. 20 technical or legal questions from the committee 21 about this program or these designs for the 22 Ghost Army Congressional Gold Medal before we 23 begin our general discussion? 24 25 MR. BERNSTEIN: Now turning to our Are there any Dr. Brown, this is Arthur Bernstein with a question. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 23 1 DR. BROWN: 2 MR. BERNSTEIN: Please proceed. I was curious about a 3 phrase that appeared on several of the designs 4 Illusion against Iron. I tried Googling that, 5 and couldn't find any explanation of where that 6 phrase came from, and I was hoping someone 7 could tell me more about that. 8 MS. STAFFORD: So I'm imagining that we'll 9 have to ask our liaison. Mr. Beyer, would you 10 like to respond to that? Obviously, Megan, 11 you're more than welcome as well. 12 MR. BEYER: I'll respond. It came from 13 Roy Eichhorn, who was here on the call as we 14 were -- we were casting about, in addition to 15 other considerations, for -- for things to say 16 on the medal, and it was a phrase that he had 17 come up with that we all liked. 18 well, you can try this on some of the medals. 19 It is not a phrase that was used at the time, 20 or -- or as far as I know, Roy, or in any 21 official way, it was a phrase that we came up 22 with that we thought might be worthy of looking 23 at. 24 up with which -- which were not reflected on 25 design. So we said, There were some other phrases we also came So that's kind of the origin of it. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 24 1 2 Roy, do you want to add anything to that? MR. EICHHORN: Yeah, part of what we were 3 thinking about was something that would tie 4 some of the visuals together with a simple 5 phrase, and that was why illusion, which is 6 what the Ghost Army did against iron, which was 7 real people shooting real bullets at them. 8 we tried to keep it short and simple, but still 9 add something in for somebody that might not So 10 necessarily get the whole picture of the Ghost 11 Army to start with. 12 a bit more from that standpoint. So it might draw people in 13 MR. BEYER: Thank you. 14 DR. BROWN: Any other question from 15 members of the committee? 16 none, let us begin our consideration. 17 to remind members to please keep your comments 18 to five minutes or less, and to always identify 19 yourself for the court reporter prior to 20 speaking. 21 we'll indicate when the time may be close to 22 being expired. 23 have any questions or comments on any other 24 aspect of the program, please refrain from 25 asking these or discussing it until after you Hearing none, seeing I'd like We'll be keeping track of time and Additionally, if any members www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 25 1 are recognized or at the end of the discussion 2 on this program, when I promise I will ask you 3 again if there are additional comments. 4 the benefit of the court reporter and those 5 calling in, I ask that you state your name 6 again when you are speaking, when you begin, 7 before you begin speaking. 8 that I will endeavor to make sure to, once we 9 get to the part of the committee, that we're For And to let you know 10 going to take a motion that I will make sure to 11 restate the name of the person making the 12 motion and the person also seconding the 13 motion, so the court reporter can have that 14 adequately in the record. 15 with our consideration by calling on Art 16 Brenstein. 17 MR. BERNSTEIN: So, let us begin Yeah, sorry, this is 18 Arthur Bernstein, and I wanted to share with my 19 colleagues a mistake that I made because I 20 thought it was rather funny, but I made the 21 mistake of looking at the designs before I read 22 anything about the Ghost Army, and I started 23 thinking, gee, those tanks look ridiculous. 24 What could the artist have been thinking? 25 then I read the description and then finally www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 26 1 understood what was going on. 2 all wonderful. 3 find myself agreeing completely with the 4 liaisons and therefore strongly support obverse 5 three and reverse five with the small 6 modifications that were mentioned in terms of 7 Act of Congress. I don't have a lot to say. DR. BROWN: 9 turn to Mary Lannin. Thank you so much. MS. LANNIN: I Thank you. 8 10 The designs are Okay. We now Good morning, 11 everyone. 12 This must have been a very interesting exercise 13 in sort of transmitting magic to paper, and I 14 think they did a really good job. 15 with the designs the liaisons chose, obverse 16 three and reverse five. 17 reverse five. 18 powerful. 19 think the texture is going to be really 20 interesting, and you're going to want to read 21 every single word that's on that. 22 congratulations to all the artists, and I hope 23 we can get this out for the people who deserve 24 it. 25 Congratulations to all the artists. I too agree I especially like I think that's very, very And once you have it in hand, I So Thank you. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much, Mary. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 We Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 27 1 2 turn it now to Peter. DR. VAN ALFEN: This is Peter van Alfen. 3 I have to say that given my lifelong interest 4 in the Second World War and the history of it, 5 that this is really rather interesting and fun 6 portfolio to be 7 working on. I'm happy to support the 8 liaisons' preferences of obverse three and 9 reverse five. I do have to say that I, from an 10 artistic standpoint, I really do quite like 11 obverse two. 12 well within, you know, the circular format and 13 -- and certainly conveys, you know, some 14 aspects about the deception. 15 again, just happy to support the liaisons' 16 selections here with the recommended 17 adjustments. 18 19 20 I think that that works quite So thank you. DR. BROWN: Donald. But otherwise, Very good. Now turn to Has Donald joined us? MR. SCARINCI: I'm here. Yeah, of course, 21 you know, it looks like there is a consensus 22 among the constituents to the program, and, you 23 know I always support that when it comes to a 24 Congressional gold medal. 25 else to say. So I don't have much www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 28 1 2 3 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much Donald. Now I'll turn to Dr. Harcourt Fuller. DR. FULLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and 4 I want to thank all of the liaisons for being 5 here today. 6 experience, I think, for all of us. 7 known about the Ghost Army before, it just 8 shows the dedication of citizens to the cause, 9 and I really appreciate this lesson as an This is certainly an educational Not having 10 educator. 11 liaisons with respect to obverse three and 12 reverse five. 13 14 15 I will defer to the members, to the Thank you. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. I'll turn it now to Robin Salmon. MS. SALMON: This is Robin Salmon. Thank 16 you, Dr. Brown. 17 three and reverse five are excellent for this 18 Congressional Gold Medal. 19 very nice composition incorporating all of the 20 aspects of the areas of the Ghost Army, and 21 it's difficult to get that much into one 22 design, but they they've done it very well and 23 it's a nicely balanced. 24 provides, I think, a very interesting design. 25 The insignia for the two companies are I also agree that obverse Obverse three has a Reverse five also www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 29 1 intriguing, and while I know that's 2 historically accurate, it still gives something 3 special for an artist to work with. 4 recognizing the areas of operation I think is 5 so important in a medal like this. 6 very happy to support obverse three and reverse 7 five. 8 9 And So I am Thank you. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Turn now to Dennis Tucker. 10 MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. This 11 is Dennis Tucker, and thanks also to Mr. Beyer, 12 Mr. 13 us unique insight into this program, and I 14 appreciate you sharing that. 15 agree with your choices. 16 wonderful. 17 three conditions that you had in your minds as 18 you were looking at designs, and I wanted to 19 mention in particular obverse three. 20 I really like about this design is if you just 21 look at this quickly, it almost appears to be 22 like, quote unquote, any other World War 23 II-related Congressional Gold Medal. 24 soldiers in action doing various soldierly 25 things. Eichhorn and Ms. Leech. You have brought Thank you. I I think they're I see how they have satisfied the Something You have And it's only when you take a closer www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 30 1 look that you see, wait a minute, they're 2 actually lifting up a tank. 3 sewing a patch, I like the way the thread, of 4 course, from a production standpoint has to be 5 invisible. 6 able to strike up such a fine detail. 7 fact that you cannot see the thread I think is 8 an interesting aspect of this design. 9 think they're both wonderful, and I applaud you And the man who is There's no way the Mint would be 10 on your decisions and they have my full 11 agreement. 12 to our liaisons. 13 But the So I Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you DR. BROWN: Thank you. I must take this 14 opportunity as prerogative of the Chair to in 15 fact share with my members of the committee 16 that I particularly love this program, not only 17 because of the beautiful designs that our 18 artist provided, but it also gave me an 19 opportunity to really think about my brief time 20 in the military. 21 we are hearing among these military persons who 22 served in this Ghost Army, but I can remember 23 the fact that while I was in the Army, I had a 24 number of patches, and actually I have if we 25 were to actually have the meeting in person, I I didn't have the honor that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 31 1 would have brought my jacket with me so you can 2 see the patches that I have from my time in 3 service. 4 me, and quite frankly, it also really touched 5 me to the fact that my training, my MOS, my job 6 in the military was not as a position. 7 in a signal corps. 8 in fact something that we did each and every 9 day. So that made it even more real for I was So MOS and Morse code was And so to me, it really won my heart to 10 see really design on obverse three to see the 11 guy doing Morse code. 12 the designs, it had me in fact reliving my days 13 when I had to learn what the Morse code meant 14 for every point of the alphabet, and you had to 15 do it at a rather rhythm, cause you can't be 16 doing it slow in communicating it because that 17 would not work. 18 this really warms my heart to have the 19 opportunity to actually speak, not only because 20 I love the designs and I concur with the 21 decisions by the liaisons, but in fact allowed 22 me to remember those days, which quite frankly, 23 unlike World War II and Vietnam, we didn't get 24 the same recognition when we returned back. 25 being able to live it now in this Mint makes And actually in one of So I want you to know that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 32 1 sense, and reminds me of something that one of 2 my members, one of the members of the CCAC said 3 to me that I will never forget. 4 to thank them for their service as it was as 5 important then as it is now. 6 that's important for us to continue to 7 underscore. 8 leaning in the direction of leaning in 9 direction of the liaisons. That we want And I think So having said that, again, I'm So are there any 10 other additional comments or motions from 11 members at this time? 12 Costello, do you have anything that you'd like 13 to share with the committee on the designs for 14 this coin? 15 MR. COSTELLO: Hearing none, Mike Good morning everyone. As 16 everyone, I believe the entire portfolio does a 17 great job depicting the importance of the Ghost 18 Army and, you know, the fact that all the 19 designs made it through coinability review. 20 have no further comment. 21 job. 22 DR. BROWN: Thank you. I Great Are there any additional 23 comments or clarification from April, her team, 24 Robin, or any of the liaisons that they'd like 25 to offer? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 33 1 2 MS. STAFFORD: None for me. Megan, do you have anything? 3 MS. SULLIVAN: Nothing else here. Thank 5 MS. STAFFORD: Or our liaisons? 6 MR. EICHHORN: This is Roy. 4 you. Just wanted 7 to make a comment on the reverse. 8 emblems were designed by the soldiers 9 themselves during the war. Those two They don't exist 10 anywhere else, and we never saw the ghost until 11 1996, when the official history, which is where 12 that appears, was finally declassified. 13 part of why we wanted those two was that, 14 again, as you say, they were designed by the 15 soldiers themselves to represent what they 16 could. 17 they don't -- they don't meet what the Army 18 likes in terms of heraldry. 19 current practitioners in special operations of 20 deception love both of those, and they use them 21 for current operations. The other thing is Dr. 22 Brown mentioned signal. Part of what we liked 23 -- I like definitely, you have the telegrapher 24 furthest forward. 25 did was spoof radio and sending false signal. So So they're not official, and frankly, However, the An awful lot of what they www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 34 1 So their telegraphers were very busy. 2 again, Dr. Brown, one of the surviving 3 veterans, as an example, had a documented speed 4 of Morse code of 60 words a minute on Morse, 5 which I can't even imagine. 6 there. 7 And My two comments Thank you. Dr. BROWN: Thank you so much. I can't 8 remember what the minimum was when I was in the 9 service, but I must confess that I was so 10 pleased that I finally reached that minimum 11 because it was no joke being able to do that 12 quickly. 13 MR. FULLER: 14 DR. BROWN: 15 MR. HARCOURT: 16 Dr. Brown. Yes, please. This is Harcourt Fuller. May I ask a question of the liaisons, please? 17 DR. BROWN: 18 MR. FULLLER: Please proceed. Thank you. As a historian, 19 I'd like to take the opportunity just to ask if 20 any of the liaisons are planning on writing a 21 book about the Ghost Army, or if there are any 22 historians that -- that have expressed an 23 interest in that. 24 that would be a book that would be worthy for 25 every American to read and other people as I think certainly, you know, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 35 1 well. 2 films are in the works. 3 know, I love military history, and certainly 4 there are so many scholars and filmmakers out 5 there that I think would have an interest. 6 Thank you. 7 And also whether or not any, you know, MR. BEYER: I'm a -- I'm a, you This is Rick Beyer. I'll take 8 that question because I've written that book, 9 coauthored a book called The Ghost Army of 10 World War II with Elizabeth Sayles, whose 11 father was in the unit, and sadly, Liz passed 12 away last year. 13 with a revised edition of that book, which 14 includes the fact that the President in 15 Congress awarded this gold medal, although we 16 will not get the design in because the book's 17 trying to come out about the same time the 18 design is being awarded. 19 documentary that aired in 2013 called The Ghost 20 Army -- called The Ghost Army. 21 unoriginal in titling. 22 titled about the same, and there is interest in 23 making a Hollywood movie, and we kind of went 24 through a whole story arc on that which you can 25 Google and read about. And we're actually coming out I also produced a PBS Yeah, I'm very All of things are But Ben Affleck had www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 36 1 signed on to direct and star in it and the 2 screenplay was written, et cetera, and then as 3 sometimes happens with Hollywood projects, it 4 stopped. 5 it, to quote from the movie The Princess Bride, 6 it's mostly dead. 7 means mostly dead means it's a little bit 8 alive. 9 going on. It died. But I always like to say It's not all dead, which So there's still some conversations And since I noted my own book, I 10 want to make sure to mention that there have 11 been other books written about this unit as 12 well. 13 by Phil Gerard, a book by Jack Kneece, and some 14 -- It's also mentioned in some recent books. 15 One of the things that we're very pleased about 16 is that our efforts to -- to have this unit 17 honored, our efforts to get the story out there 18 have resulted in other people starting to pick 19 up the story. 20 there's also the National World War II Museum 21 did an exhibit, which I consulted on, an 22 exhibit about this unit, and that exhibit is 23 now traveling and is currently at the Illinois 24 Holocaust Museum. 25 to the Nevada Museum of Art. A book by my friend John Donne, a book And I'll just finish by saying It will move in the spring I know later it's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 37 1 going to Saint Louis, and I'm not sure after 2 that. 3 of ongoing stuff out there to tell this story 4 and try to keep it remembered. So the good news here is there's a lot 5 DR. FULLER: 6 DR. BROWN: 7 MR. TUCKER: Thank you so much. Dennis? 8 is Dennis Tucker. 9 for Mike Costello. Thank you, Mr. Chair. This I think this is a question We had some discussion 10 about including Act of Congress 2022 on the 11 obverse, and as Robin mentioned, obverse three 12 is a very well-balanced design, and that's a 13 lot of text to be introducing into it. 14 we don't need to come up with answers today, 15 but I'm just curious to hear if you have any 16 thoughts on how that redesign might proceed. 17 Thank you. 18 MR. COSTELLO: Yeah. I know Thanks, Dennis. 19 Yeah, I definitely have to review that with 20 Joe. Maybe we can scale something down -- 21 MS. STAFFORD: Mike -- 22 MR. COSTELLO: I'm not positive -- yes. 23 MS. STAFFORD: Sorry, this is April. I 24 should have noted, Dennis, as we were reading 25 through the candidate designs that actually our www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 38 1 chief engraver has weighed in on this, and he 2 projects parking it underneath the Ghost Army, 3 so they'll have to just like very slightly 4 tighten up the design and his -- he's very 5 confident that it will fit very, very nicely 6 there. 7 MR. TUCKER: 8 MR. COSTELLO: 9 Thank you, April. Yeah, it shouldn't be an issue Dennis. 10 MR. TUCKER: 11 MR. COSTELLO: 12 DR. BROWN: Thank you, Mike. Definitely. Are there any additional 13 questions or comments from members of the 14 committee? 15 MS. LANNIN: Dr. Brown, this is Mary 16 Lannin. 17 accept obverse three and reverse five, which 18 are the choices of our liaisons, with the 19 appropriate verbiage added as only the Mint can 20 do. I would like to make a motion that we 21 MR. BERNSTEIN: 22 DR. BROWN: Arthur Bernstein seconds. Outstanding. So Mary is the 23 make of the motion., Arthur Bernstein we'll 24 record you as second. 25 discussion? Is there any further Hearing none, all those in favor www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 39 1 aye. 2 (Aye) 3 DR. BROWN: Are there any oppositions to 4 this motion? 5 motion? 6 stands and it is approved. 7 we want to thank our liaisons for joining us 8 and giving us such a wealth of information, and 9 I must say enjoyment, especially for the chair Is there any opposition to the Hearing none, the motion in fact Outstanding. And 10 to have an opportunity to discuss a program 11 such as this. 12 stay with us for the rest of the meeting, but 13 if you must attend to other things, we 14 understand that and appreciate that. 15 going to -- 16 You are certainly welcome to DR. VAN ALFEN: So we're Dr. Brown, just a quick 17 question before our liaisons departs. 18 going to save this question for the few moments 19 that we were scoring, but the question is, why 20 was this kept under wraps for 50 years? 21 was there so much secrecy about that? 22 23 24 25 MR. BEYER: I was Why I'm going to let Roy answer that. MR. EICHHORN: odd in some ways. Yeah, it really is quite What you get into is what's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 40 1 called sources and methods. 2 Army was winding up in Europe, they were 3 already bouncing up against the Cold War, if 4 you want to look at it that way. 5 involved in the forced repatriation of 6 concentration camp survivors in the hands of 7 the Soviets. 8 several things that the military was doing that 9 they decided needed to be kept top secret And as the Ghost They were And at that moment, there were 10 because they might need it sooner rather than 11 later. 12 Ghost Army is it was classified top secret. 13 have copies of stuff going from Eisenhower to 14 Marshall, you know, create this unit, et 15 cetera. 16 Again, these folks were involved in 17 intelligence work as part of what they did, and 18 you've got quite a bit going on there. 19 sonic equipment was state of the art. 20 truck had a 40-pound explosive charge under the 21 driver's seat to blow it all up and to keep it 22 from being captured, which didn't make the guys 23 who drove them happy. 24 some of the technique, and then also some of 25 the technical work that was done to create the What is interesting in the case of the We Eyes only, limited distribution. The Each And so the -- you'll see www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 41 1 Ghost Army still in operation today. 2 an outtake in his PBS video CD that is one of 3 the physicists that worked on this talking 4 about the creation of what they had to do for 5 instrumentation. 6 instrumentation still used in recording studios 7 today. 8 also mention while I'm at it, we support 9 National History Day projects, and we've had Rick has And that's the same So quite a bit in all of that. I'll 10 several History Day winners at, I believe, the 11 national level, Rick, so that is another part 12 of what we've been doing. 13 some amazing young people who have really 14 gotten into this and really dug into it and 15 have produced some wonderful stuff, and that's 16 also part of what we're into is the -- the 17 educational end of it. 18 DR. VAN ALFEN: We've found that Thank you. Mr. Eichhorn, thank you 19 very much, and Mr. Beyer and Ms. Leech as well. 20 Thank you. 21 DR. BROWN: I'd also would like to 22 recommend for those who have had not had the 23 opportunity to actually see the PBS documentary 24 because it actually fills in a number of other 25 questions that you may have had. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Hearing Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 42 1 nothing further on this, I'd like us to suggest 2 that we move to the next order of business of 3 the committee, and that is to review and the 4 approval of the CCAC minutes in a letter to the 5 Secretary of Treasury from a public meeting on 6 September 27th, 2022. Are there any comments on 7 these documents? 8 questions, is there a motion to approve the 9 minutes and the letters? 10 DR. VAN ALFEN: 11 MS. LANNIN: 12 Peter van Alfen so move. Mary Lannin -- oh. This is Mary Lannin and I will second. 13 DR. BROWN: So Peter has made a motion and 14 Mary seconded it. 15 this? 16 aye. Is there any discussion of Hearing none, all those in favor say 17 18 Hearing no comments or (Aye) DR. BROWN: And any oppositions? Not 19 seeing any, that's without opposition, the 20 minutes and the letters are approved. 21 now move to consideration of the annual report 22 for the CCAC. 23 Title 31 of the United States Code, the CCAC is 24 to submit an annual report to the Secretary of 25 Treasury, the House Committee on Financial We will Pursuant to Section 5135 of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 43 1 Services, and the Senate Committee on Banking, 2 Housing and Urban Affairs. 3 report is due on September 30th of each year, 4 but consistent with the statute and past 5 practice, it was communicated to the Secretary 6 and to Congress early this year, that 7 additional time was needed to include the 8 September 27th, 2022 meeting to the annual 9 report, and that we expect to deliver our 10 report no later than December 19th, 2022. 11 there any comments or suggestions with respect 12 to the document? 13 MS. LANNIN: By statute, this Dr. Brown, this is Mary 14 Lannin. 15 those at the Mint who put together a really 16 spectacular document. 17 looks very, very professional. 18 I would just like to thank all of DR. VAN ALFEN: It looks beautiful. just want to second what Mary said. 20 this report looks phenomenal. 21 done and really enjoyable to read. 22 you everyone who was involved with it. 24 25 DR. BROWN: I think It's really well So thank And I will take it, Mary, that you were making a motion to approve. MS. LANNIN: It This is Peter van Alfen. I 19 23 Are I am making a motion to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 44 1 approve the annual report, and I bet you I can 2 guess who will second that. 3 4 DR. VAN ALFEN: MS. LANNIN: 6 DR. BROWN: Okay. All those in favor by saying aye. 8 9 Peter van Alfen, yes. 5 7 I will second that. (Aye) DR. BROWN: Are there any oppositions to 10 the position? 11 the fiscal year 2022 annual report is thus 12 approved, and I agree with the both of you that 13 this was a great job by members of the Mint 14 staff that they did an outstanding job. 15 Objections? MS. WARREN: Without objection, Okay. Dr. Brown, this is Jennifer 16 Warren. 17 Lori McKay. 18 She's the one that took, you know, a lot of 19 your writing and put it into the format. 20 the one who worked on it last year, and she 21 just did a phenomenal job, and she could work 22 on it again. 23 as well in helping me pull that document 24 together. 25 record. I just want to give a shout out for She's one of our graphics people. She's And the help of Andrea Sutherlin So I just wanted to put that on the Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 45 1 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. And I'd 2 also like to thank all the phenomenal staff of 3 the U.S. 4 would not be able to do the work that we do, 5 the input that we provide on the CCAC. 6 are coming to the last order of business, and 7 before we do that, I'd like to, in fact, say to 8 all those who are participating at this meeting 9 virtually, particularly committee members, Mint Mint because clearly without them, we As we 10 staff, the media, the public, that we wish you 11 a fun and enjoyable holiday weekend, holiday 12 season, I should say, between -- because we 13 will not be before you until 2023, and we want 14 you to have a pleasant, enjoyable, and safe 15 holiday season. 16 CCAC members, the Mint staff for their 17 attendance today by video conference. 18 CCAC public meeting will be a virtual meeting 19 on January 24th. 20 announced in the Federal Register at least 21 several weeks prior to the public meeting. 22 will now entertain a motion to adjourn. I'd like to again to thank the 23 MR. BERSTEIN: 24 MS. SALMON: 25 The next All upcoming meetings will be Art Bernstein -So moved. This is Robin Salmon, so moved. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 46 1 DR. BROWN: So we will have Robin on the 2 record as making the motion to adjourn. 3 have a second? 4 MR. BERNSTEIN: 5 DR. BROWN: Arthur Bernstein second. I have Arthur Bernstein 6 recorded as a second. 7 signify by saying aye. 8 9 Can we All those in favor (Aye) DR. BROWN: It appears that based on the 10 visual and the auditory theory of the chair 11 that the ayes have it. 12 stands adjourned. 13 thank you. Take care. 14 This meeting then Again, ladies and gentlemen, (Thereupon, the proceedings were concluded.) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 47 1 CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC 2 3 I, JANEL FOLSOM, the officer before whom 4 The foregoing proceedings were taken, do hereby 5 certify that any witness(es) in the foregoing 6 proceedings, prior to testifying, were duly sworn; 7 that the proceedings were recorded by me and 8 thereafter reduced to typewriting by a qualified 9 transcriptionist; that said digital audio recording 10 of said proceedings are a true and accurate record 11 to the best of my knowledge, skills, and ability; 12 that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor 13 employed by any of the parties to the action in 14 which this was taken; and, further, that I am not a 15 relative or employee of any counsel or attorney 16 employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or 17 otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. 18 19 20 21 <%14644,Signature%> 22 JANEL FOLSOM 23 Notary Public in and for the Florida 24 25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 48 1 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER 2 3 I, CHARITY RIVERA-GARCIA, do hereby 4 Certify that this transcript was prepared from 5 the digital audio recording of the foregoing 6 proceeding, that said transcript is a true and 7 accurate record of the proceedings to the best 8 of my knowledge, skills, and ability; that I am 9 neither counsel for, related to, nor employed 10 by any of the parties to the action in which 11 this was taken; and, further, that I am not a 12 relative or employee of any counsel or attorney 13 employed by the parties hereto, nor financially 14 or otherwise interested in the outcome of this 15 action. 16 17 18 <%17391,Signature%> 19 CHARITY RIVERA-GARCIA 20 21 22 23 24 25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting Page 1 [1,300 - approval] 1 1,300 15:19 10:00 1:7 117-85 11:4 12:00 1:7 14644 47:21 15 1:6 15th 4:6 17391 48:18 1996 17:8 33:11 19th 43:10 2 2013 35:19 2022 1:6 4:6 6:4 6:4 15:12 22:2,5 37:10 42:6 43:8 43:10 44:11 2023 45:13 23rd 11:5 12:1 14:16 19:10,12 20:10,13 21:11 21:19 22:10 24th 45:19 27th 6:3 42:6 43:8 3 30 16:8,15 30th 43:3 31 42:23 3132nd 12:3 3133rd 11:6 12:4 14:16 18:6 18:13 19:11,13 20:11 21:20 22:11 3133rd's 22:13 November 15, 2022 4 4 20:6,9 40 40:20 406 11:24 4a 20:6,9 5 5 21:18 50 39:20 51 17:6 5135 42:22 5a 21:18 22:8 6 6 22:9 60 34:4 603rd 11:19 6a 22:9 7 79th 21:10 8 80 13:22 a ability 11:16 47:11 48:8 able 4:15 6:15 9:25 30:6 31:25 34:11 45:4 absolutely 9:9 11:1 13:11 15:5 accept 38:17 acceptance 6:2 accomplishme... 17:23 accurate 29:2 47:10 48:7 act 15:12 22:2 26:7 37:10 action 29:24 47:13,17 48:10 48:15 activities 12:24 actual 11:17 add 16:20 22:1 24:1,9 added 38:19 addition 16:7 23:14 additional 25:3 32:10,22 38:12 43:7 additionally 4:12 24:22 address 22:7 addressed 9:4 adequately 25:14 adjourn 45:22 46:2 adjourned 46:12 adjustments 27:17 administrative 9:14 advisory 4:5 affairs 2:12 3:2 3:3 7:18 8:4,6 43:2 affleck 35:25 agenda 5:25 10:17 agree 26:14 28:16 29:15 44:12 agreeing 26:3 agreement 30:11 ahead 11:2 19:1 aired 35:19 alfen 2:10 5:20 5:21,21 27:2,2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 39:16 41:18 42:10,10 43:18 43:18 44:3,4 alive 36:8 allied 11:14 21:5 allowed 31:21 alongside 20:2 alphabet 31:14 amazing 17:4 41:13 american 5:2 34:25 amos 2:15 6:19 andrea 44:22 announce 4:10 announced 45:20 annual 6:5 42:21 42:24 43:8 44:1 44:11 answer 15:14 39:22 answers 37:14 apologize 8:25 9:23 apology 9:1 appearance 19:16 appeared 23:3 appears 29:21 33:12 46:9 applaud 30:9 appreciate 22:18 28:9 29:14 39:14 appropriate 10:24 38:19 approval 6:3,4 42:4 Meeting Page 2 [approve - brown] approve 42:8 43:24 44:1 approved 39:6 42:20 44:12 april 2:17 6:25 8:23 9:8,20 10:22 13:13 14:4,25 22:17 32:23 37:23 38:7 arc 35:24 arching 22:2 areas 28:20 29:4 army 3:1,4,6,8 6:7 8:1,10,12,16 8:19 10:9,10,18 10:18 11:8,11 11:11,12,15 12:22 13:3,4,6,7 13:14 14:18 16:9,15,22 17:3 17:19,19,22,22 18:9,13 19:24 20:6,7,23 21:4 21:18 22:3,22 24:6,11 25:22 28:7,20 30:22 30:23 32:18 33:17 34:21 35:9,20,20 38:2 40:2,12 41:1 army's 19:15 array 11:20 art 12:11 25:15 36:25 40:19 45:23 arthur 2:3 4:19 4:21 22:24 25:18 38:21,23 46:4,5 November 15, 2022 artillery 11:21 artist 16:18 18:17 25:24 29:3 30:18 artistic 27:10 artistry 13:18 artists 13:15 16:23 26:11,22 arts 2:7 5:10 asking 24:25 aspect 24:24 30:8 aspects 27:14 28:20 assembling 19:8 assisted 11:25 assume 9:5 assured 15:13 atop 21:11 attached 20:3 attend 6:15 39:13 attendance 6:17 45:17 attendees 2:1 attending 6:23 attention 18:10 attorney 47:15 48:12 audio 21:17 47:9 48:5 auditory 46:10 awarded 35:15 35:18 awards 11:5 aware 6:10,17 awesome 18:18 awful 33:24 axis 18:11 16:4,6 23:9,12 24:13 29:11 35:7,7 39:22 41:19 bit 24:12 36:7 40:18 41:7 back 22:16 blind 18:23 31:24 blow 40:21 background board 3:6 8:15 20:2 13:5 backs 18:14 boneza 2:22 balanced 28:23 7:11 37:12 book 34:21,24 banking 43:1 35:8,9,13 36:9 based 46:9 36:12,12,13 battlefields book's 35:16 11:12 books 36:11,14 beautiful 30:17 borer 2:20 7:7,8 43:16 bouncing 40:3 beginning 4:11 believe 5:24 6:15 branch 10:10,15 brandon 2:13 10:11 15:1 6:18 8:3 32:16 41:10 bravery 18:15 ben 35:25 brendan 3:2 beneath 20:25 brenstein 25:16 22:2,3 bride 36:5 benefit 12:16 brief 30:19 25:4 briefly 13:24 bernstein 2:3 bring 9:25 17:22 4:20,21,21 bringing 9:23 22:24,25 23:2 broadcast 21:4 25:17,18 38:21 brought 29:12 38:21,23 45:23 31:1 46:4,4,5 brown 2:2 4:2 berstein 45:23 4:23 5:1,7,13,19 best 10:14 47:11 5:22,22 6:21 7:4 48:7 7:7,9,11,14,17 bet 44:1 7:21,23,25 8:3,8 beyer 3:4 8:11 8:15,18,21,22 8:13,13 13:2,8 9:1,8,19 10:2 13:11,12 15:6 aye 39:1,2 42:16 42:17 44:7,8 46:7,8 ayes 46:11 b www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting Page 3 [brown - congratulations] 11:4 16:10,13 19:1,4 22:15,17 22:24 23:1 24:14 26:8,25 27:18 28:1,13 28:16 29:8 30:13 32:22 33:22 34:2,7,13 34:14,17 37:6 38:12,15,22 39:3,16 41:21 42:13,18 43:13 43:23 44:6,9,15 45:1 46:1,5,9 bulldozers 11:25 bullets 24:7 bumper 12:19 21:13 business 9:7 42:2 45:6 busy 34:1 c c 4:1 cafes 12:20 call 4:4,18 8:9 23:13 called 6:24 35:9 35:19,20 40:1 calling 25:5,15 camouflage 11:20 camp 40:6 campaigns 14:17,18 candidate 6:6 19:3,6 22:16 37:25 captured 40:22 care 46:13 career 16:18 carried 12:15 19:19 carry 20:4 carrying 9:5 case 17:8 40:11 casting 23:14 catch 5:15 12:13 cause 28:8 31:15 ccac 1:3 2:2,12 2:25 5:24 6:9 7:19,22 32:2 42:4,22,23 45:5 45:16,18 cd 41:2 celebrating 10:5 central 19:15 certainly 27:13 28:5 34:23 35:3 39:11 certificate 47:1 48:1 certify 47:5 48:4 cetera 36:2 40:15 chair 5:23 29:10 30:11,14 37:7 39:9 46:10 chairman 28:3 chairperson 2:2 change 10:16 charge 40:20 charity 48:3,19 chief 2:17 6:25 22:5 38:1 choices 29:15 38:18 choosing 18:19 chose 26:15 November 15, 2022 circle 19:15,17 circular 27:12 citizen 16:21 citizens 4:4 28:8 clarification 32:23 classified 40:12 clearance 17:9 17:15 clearly 45:3 close 15:23 24:21 closer 29:25 coauthored 35:9 code 12:12 19:25 21:8,9 31:7,11 31:13 34:4 42:23 coin 2:15,16 6:19,20 32:14 coinability 32:19 coinage 4:5 cold 40:3 colleagues 25:19 collectively 11:7 combat 11:24 come 23:17 35:17 37:14 comes 27:23 coming 35:12 45:6 comment 32:20 33:7 comments 13:9 24:17,23 25:3 32:10,23 34:5 38:13 42:6,7 43:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 committee 4:5,8 4:17 9:13 10:7 13:10 22:19,20 24:15 25:9 30:15 32:13 38:14 42:3,25 43:1 45:9 communicated 43:5 communicating 31:16 communication 21:14 companies 28:25 company 11:7 12:3,8 18:7 19:11,14 20:12 21:21 22:11,13 completely 26:3 compliment 13:15 composition 28:19 concentrate 9:14 concentration 40:6 concern 9:6,15 10:20 concluded 46:14 concludes 22:15 concur 31:20 conditions 29:17 conducting 11:9 conference 1:8 45:17 confess 34:9 confident 38:5 confirm 6:22 congratulations 26:11,22 Meeting Page 4 [congress - document] congress 15:12 22:2 26:7 35:15 37:10 43:6 congressional 3:1 6:7 8:1,10 10:18 11:5 22:22 27:24 28:18 29:23 consensus 27:21 consideration 18:24 24:16 25:15 42:21 considerations 13:25 23:15 consistent 43:4 constituents 27:22 consulted 36:21 contain 14:13 continue 32:6 contribution 11:14 conversations 36:8 conveys 27:13 convincing 11:23 12:22 copies 40:13 corps 31:7 correct 15:8,9 costello 2:23 7:14,16 32:12 32:15 37:9,18 37:22 38:8,11 counsel 2:24,24 3:1 7:22,22,25 47:12,15 48:9 48:12 count 5:24 November 15, 2022 countries 14:17 couple 16:20 course 13:21 27:20 30:4 court 24:19 25:4 25:13 covering 20:19 covers 20:16 create 11:23,25 16:22 40:14,25 created 12:8 22:8 creation 41:4 creativity 13:18 curator 5:20 curious 23:2 37:15 current 33:19,21 currently 36:23 d d 4:1 14:21 dad 16:16 17:9 date 22:5 daughter 3:7 8:19 13:6 18:4 day 10:5 14:21 31:9 41:9,10 days 31:12,22 dead 36:6,6,7 deal 10:17 dealing 10:17 dean 5:2 6:14 deceive 21:5 deceived 11:12 december 43:10 deception 11:10 11:18,19 12:2,7 14:7 19:17 20:16,25 21:9 21:17,17 27:14 33:20 deceptions 12:21 14:4 20:21 deceptive 11:23 decided 40:9 decisions 30:10 31:21 declassification 17:7 declassified 17:16 33:12 decoy 19:18 dedication 28:8 deeply 13:17 defer 9:9 28:10 definitely 33:23 37:19 38:11 deliver 43:9 dennis 2:9 5:16 29:9,11 37:6,8 37:18,24 38:9 department 16:15 departs 39:17 depict 20:7 21:19 22:9 depicting 32:17 depicts 19:8,12 19:22 20:12,23 21:3 22:12 deployed 11:20 description 25:25 deserve 26:23 design 2:17,18 2:19,20,21,22 2:23 6:25 7:1,4 7:7,9,11,15 13:1 19:8 20:15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 21:24 22:4,8 23:25 28:22,24 29:20 30:8 31:10 35:16,18 37:12 38:4 designed 33:8,14 designs 6:6 12:25 13:16 14:9 18:18 19:3 19:7 20:14 22:9 22:16,21 23:3 25:21 26:1,15 29:18 30:17 31:12,20 32:13 32:19 37:25 detail 30:6 developing 12:25 died 36:4 different 14:7 difficult 28:21 difficulties 6:14 digital 47:9 48:5 direct 36:1 direction 10:22 32:8,9 director 2:11 7:17 discuss 39:10 discussing 24:25 discussion 6:6 22:23 25:1 37:9 38:25 42:14 displays 11:22 distinguished 11:9 distribution 40:15 document 43:12 43:16 44:23 Meeting Page 5 [documentary - finally] documentary 35:19 41:23 documented 34:3 documents 42:7 doing 17:20 18:10 29:24 31:11,16 40:8 41:12 donald 2:8 5:14 6:16 27:19,19 28:1 donne 36:12 dovetailed 16:14 dr 4:2,23,24 5:1 5:2,7,13,19,20 5:21,22,22 6:21 7:4,7,9,11,14,17 7:21,23,25 8:3,8 8:15,18,21,22 9:1,8,19 10:2 11:4 16:10,13 18:25 19:4 22:15,17,24 23:1 24:14 26:8 26:25 27:2,18 28:1,2,3,13,16 29:8 30:13 32:22 33:21 34:2,7,13,14,17 37:5,6 38:12,15 38:22 39:3,16 39:16 41:18,21 42:10,13,18 43:13,18,23 44:3,6,9,15 45:1 46:1,5,9 draw 24:11 drew 18:10 November 15, 2022 driver's 40:21 drove 40:23 ducks 18:13 due 43:3 dug 41:14 duly 47:6 e 33:8 employed 11:16 12:7,15 47:13 47:16 48:9,13 employee 16:9 47:15 48:12 empty 21:2 endeavor 25:8 e 4:1,1 enemy 11:24 earlier 9:24 22:1 12:9,12,16 21:5 early 43:6 engineers 11:20 ears 20:18 21:1 11:24 easily 15:13 engraver 22:6 edit 21:25 38:1 edition 35:13 engraving 2:23 editor 2:13,14 7:15 2:15 enjoyable 43:21 educate 17:21 45:11,14 educational 28:5 enjoyment 39:9 41:17 entertain 45:22 educator 28:10 entire 16:18 effects 12:5,15 32:16 14:8,12 20:22 equipment 21:1,17 40:19 effort 13:24 es 47:5 efforts 36:16,17 especially 26:16 eichhorn 3:6 39:9 8:15,17,17 13:4 et 1:7 36:2 40:14 15:15 16:1,6,12 europe 11:13 16:13 23:13 14:23 40:2 24:2 29:12 33:6 evans 2:21 7:9 39:24 41:18 7:10 eisenhower example 11:19 40:13 17:8 34:3 either 18:5 excellent 28:17 elizabeth 35:10 excited 13:20 emblem 20:13 exercise 26:12 22:12 exhibit 36:21,22 emblems 19:9 36:22 19:12 20:10 21:19 22:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 exist 33:9 expect 43:9 experience 28:6 experts 16:23 expired 24:22 explanation 23:5 explosive 40:20 express 18:16 expressed 34:22 eyes 20:20,25 40:15 f fabulous 13:19 fact 10:3,12,17 30:7,15,23 31:5 31:8,12,21 32:18 35:14 39:5 45:7 fake 12:9,18,19 false 33:25 far 23:20 father 17:15 35:11 father's 18:15 favor 38:25 42:15 44:6 46:6 features 19:9 20:10 fed 16:19 federal 45:20 feel 15:20 fifth 18:6 figure 20:21 fills 41:24 filmmakers 35:4 films 35:2 final 18:19 finally 8:8 13:21 25:25 33:12 Meeting Page 6 [finally - hearing] 34:10 financial 42:25 financially 47:16 48:13 find 23:5 26:3 fine 30:6 fingers 20:18 finish 36:19 first 9:7 11:18 13:12 16:21 19:7 fiscal 44:11 fist 21:6,7 fit 38:5 five 15:8 20:10 21:22,23 24:18 26:5,16,17 27:9 28:12,17,23 29:7 38:17 flexibility 18:11 florida 47:23 fly 20:8 focus 21:21 folks 16:25 17:18 40:16 following 6:1,22 8:9 folsom 47:3,22 fool 12:9 forced 40:5 foregoing 47:4,5 48:5 forget 32:3 format 27:12 44:19 formidable 18:20 forward 5:3,9 5:15 15:20 33:24 November 15, 2022 found 41:12 founder 2:14 four 11:18 14:3 19:19,22 20:16 21:12 frankly 31:4,22 33:16 friend 36:12 full 30:10 fuller 2:4 4:24 4:25,25 28:2,3 34:13,15 37:5 fulller 34:18 fun 27:5 45:11 funny 25:20 further 15:15 32:20 38:24 42:1 47:14 48:11 furthest 33:24 g g 4:1 gap 22:7 garcia 48:3,19 gee 25:23 general 2:3 4:19 5:23 22:23 generals 12:21 gentlemen 46:12 gerard 36:13 german 11:12 20:8 germans 12:17 ghost 3:1,4,6,7 6:7 8:1,10,12,16 8:19 10:18 11:8 11:11,15 13:3,4 13:5,7,14 17:22 18:13 19:15,23 20:6,7 21:4,18 22:3,22 24:6,10 25:22 28:7,20 30:22 32:17 33:10 34:21 35:9,19,20 38:2 40:1,12 41:1 gilkes 2:14 6:19 give 10:23,25 44:16 given 9:9 27:3 gives 19:16 29:2 giving 39:8 go 11:2 15:4,15 19:1 going 10:21 14:11 17:25 19:6 25:10 26:1 26:19,20 36:9 37:1 39:15,18 39:22 40:13,18 gold 3:1 6:7 8:1 10:18,19 11:5 22:22 27:24 28:18 29:23 35:15 good 4:2,3 6:12 7:23 16:12 26:10,14 27:18 32:15 37:2 google 35:25 googling 23:4 gorgeous 18:18 gotten 41:14 government 3:2 8:4 governmental 8:4 grade 18:6 graphics 44:17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 great 17:4 32:17 32:20 44:13 greg 2:24 7:21 10:20 group 2:16 6:20 17:4 19:8 20:4 guess 44:2 guidance 18:21 guns 18:11 guy 31:11 guys 40:22 h half 20:3 hall 2:13 6:18 hanchock 2:22 7:11,13 hand 17:25 26:18 handled 12:1 hands 40:6 happen 15:21 happened 14:20 happening 13:22 happens 14:22 36:3 happy 15:14 27:7,15 29:6 40:23 harcourt 2:4 4:24,25 28:2 34:15,15 head 20:24 headquarters 11:6 19:10,12 20:11,13 21:11 21:19 22:10 hear 37:15 hearing 4:13 24:15 30:21 Meeting Page 7 [hearing - kotlowski] 32:11 38:25 39:5 41:25 42:7 42:15 heart 31:9,18 heartfelt 18:16 helmet 20:23 21:2 help 18:22 44:22 helping 44:23 heraldry 33:18 hereto 47:16 48:13 highlight 15:4 highly 11:9 historian 34:18 historians 34:22 historically 29:2 history 5:2 27:4 33:11 35:3 41:9 41:10 holding 20:17 holiday 45:11,11 45:15 hollywood 35:23 36:3 holocaust 36:24 honor 15:22 30:20 honored 36:17 hope 26:22 hoping 23:6 house 2:4,5 4:24 5:4 42:25 housing 43:2 i idea 10:15 identify 24:18 ii 11:10 20:6 29:23 31:23 35:10 36:20 November 15, 2022 illinois 36:23 illusion 23:4 24:5 illustrator 16:17 16:19 image 19:14 imagine 34:5 imagining 23:8 impersonated 12:21 importance 32:17 important 29:5 32:5,6 impressed 13:17 include 43:7 includes 6:1 8:11 22:13 35:14 including 37:10 incorporating 28:19 indicate 6:24 24:21 infantry 21:11 inflatable 11:21 14:5 19:9,18 20:5,8 21:16 information 39:8 input 45:5 inscription 22:3 inscriptions 20:5 22:14 inside 19:15 insight 29:13 insignia 14:13 14:14,15 28:25 inspiration 12:23 instrumentation 41:5,6 intelligence 12:10 40:17 intended 21:4 interest 27:3 34:23 35:5,22 interested 47:17 48:14 interesting 26:12,20 27:5 28:24 30:8 40:11 intergovernme... 2:12 3:3 7:18 8:5 interim 9:17 intriguing 29:1 introduce 4:16 10:23 introducing 37:13 introduction 11:3 invisible 30:5 involved 14:19 40:5,16 43:22 iron 23:4 24:6 issue 38:9 issues 9:4 11:2 italy 14:23 18:7 item 10:17 j job 26:14 31:5 32:17,21 44:13 44:14,21 joe 37:20 john 36:12 joined 27:19 joining 5:3 6:17 39:7 joke 34:11 k keep 16:10 17:5 24:8,17 37:4 40:21 keeping 24:20 kept 13:25 16:19 39:20 40:9 keying 19:24 kind 13:18 14:11 16:13 23:25 35:23 kinds 14:3,7 17:11 kneece 36:13 knew 17:18 know 6:14 9:12 10:8,11 13:22 16:10 17:1 23:20 25:7 27:12,13,21,23 29:1 31:17 32:18 34:23 35:1,3 36:25 37:13 40:14 jack 36:13 44:18 jacket 31:1 knowledge janel 47:3,22 47:11 48:8 january 45:19 known 11:7 28:7 jennifer 2:11 6:9 kotlowski 5:2 6:13 7:17,20 10:20 44:15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting Page 8 [ladies - message] l ladies 46:12 lannin 2:5 5:5,6 5:6 26:9,10 38:15,16 42:11 42:11,12 43:13 43:14,25 44:5 lastly 6:5 late 6:16 law 11:4 lawrence 2:2 5:22 leader 2:6,8 5:4 5:8,14 leaning 32:8,8 learn 31:13 leastly 6:5 led 13:1 leech 3:7 8:19,20 8:20 13:6 15:16 16:1 18:2,3,4,4 29:12 41:19 left 12:16 15:19 legacy 3:4,6 8:12 8:16 13:3,4 legal 2:24 3:1 7:21,25 22:20 legislative 2:11 3:3 7:18 8:5 lesson 28:9 letter 42:4 letters 6:2 42:9 42:20 level 41:11 liaison 2:12 6:9 7:19 10:7 19:20 23:9 liaisons 8:9 9:10 13:2,17 15:16 19:21 21:25 November 15, 2022 26:4,15 27:8,15 28:4,11 30:12 31:21 32:9,24 33:5 34:16,20 38:18 39:7,17 lifelong 27:3 lifting 30:2 liked 14:2 23:17 33:22 likes 33:18 limited 40:15 listen 4:13 16:11 listening 12:10 little 36:7 live 31:25 lives 11:13 liz 35:11 lobbying 13:23 location 22:7 long 12:14 look 13:19 25:23 29:21 30:1 40:4 looking 14:1 23:22 25:21 29:18 looks 27:21 43:16,17,20 loose 12:20 lori 44:17 lost 17:19 lot 14:4 26:2 33:24 37:2,13 44:18 loudspeaker 20:3 loudspeakers 20:19 louis 37:1 love 30:16 31:20 33:20 35:3 loving 10:15 m m.d. 2:2 ma'am 8:22 19:4 magic 26:13 main 19:22 major 13:25 majority 5:8 making 9:21 11:13 14:1 25:11 35:23 43:24,25 46:2 man 30:2 man's 20:24 21:6 management 2:17 7:1 manager 2:19 2:20,21,22,23 7:5,7,9,12,14 13:1 marines 10:13 markings 12:19 marshall 40:14 mary 2:5 5:4,6 26:9,25 38:15 38:22 42:11,12 42:14 43:13,19 43:23 mask 20:24 21:2 mastered 12:11 matters 9:6,14 mckay 44:17 mean 16:2 means 36:7,7 meant 31:13 medal 3:1 6:7 8:1,10 10:19 11:5 14:13 15:11 22:22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 23:16 27:24 28:18 29:5,23 35:15 medalic 2:7 medallic 5:10 medals 14:1 23:18 media 2:15,16 6:19,20 11:16 45:10 meet 33:17 meeting 1:3,8 4:4 6:1,4,11,23 10:1,16 30:25 39:12 42:5 43:8 45:8,18,18,21 46:11 meetings 45:19 megan 2:18 7:1 13:1 18:20 23:10 33:1 member 3:6,7 4:7 8:15,19 13:5 members 4:17 4:17 6:10,17 10:6 22:19 24:15,17,22 28:10 30:15 32:2,2,11 38:13 44:13 45:9,16 mention 15:18 29:19 36:10 41:8 mentioned 13:3 14:4 22:8 26:6 33:22 36:14 37:11 merit 10:7 message 19:24 Meeting Page 9 [messages - operation] messages 12:9 method 12:12 methods 19:23 40:1 michael 2:23 7:14 microphone 4:9 8:24 microphones 4:14 microsoft 4:9 mike 2:16 5:8 6:19 32:11 37:9 37:21 38:10 military 30:20 30:21 31:6 35:3 40:8 mimicking 12:11 mind 13:25 16:10 21:22 minds 29:17 minimum 34:8 34:10 minority 2:5,8 5:4,14 mint 2:12 6:8,23 9:3 12:25 13:13 15:13 18:21 30:5 31:25 38:19 43:15 44:13 45:3,9,16 minute 30:1 34:4 minutes 6:3 24:18 42:4,9,20 missing 15:10 mistake 25:19 25:21 November 15, 2022 modifications 26:6 moment 17:24 21:22 40:7 moments 39:18 morning 4:2,3 6:12 7:23 16:12 26:10 32:15 morphs 21:8,9 morse 12:12 19:25 21:8 31:7 31:11,13 34:4,4 mos 31:5,7 motion 18:11 25:10,12,13 38:16,23 39:4,5 39:5 42:8,13 43:24,25 45:22 46:2 motions 32:10 mouth 20:17 move 5:3 10:16 36:24 42:2,10 42:21 moved 45:24,25 movement 11:17 movements 21:5 movie 35:23 36:5 moving 5:9,15 12:6 15:20 19:2 20:9,14 22:9 museum 36:20 36:24,25 mute 4:8,13 n n 4:1 name 4:18 6:25 14:17 25:5,11 name's 18:3 names 4:11 national 36:20 41:9,11 navy 10:13 near 17:3 necessarily 24:10 necessary 9:1 need 9:4 37:14 40:10 needed 16:24 40:9 43:7 needle 21:10 neither 47:12 48:9 networks 12:8 nevada 36:25 never 12:13 17:2 32:3 33:10 nevertheless 14:14 news 2:16 6:20 37:2 nice 28:19 nicely 28:23 38:5 night 12:6 21:6 normandy 14:21 northern 14:23 notary 47:1,23 noted 18:8 19:20 36:9 37:24 november 1:6 4:6 number 10:4,4,6 30:24 41:24 numbers 16:23 21:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 numismatics 2:9 2:10 5:16 numismatist 5:20 o o 4:1 objection 44:10 objections 44:10 observers 11:24 obverse 15:7,14 19:6,7,11,19,21 19:22 20:9,10 20:12 22:1 26:4 26:15 27:8,11 28:11,16,18 29:6,19 31:10 37:11,11 38:17 obverses 20:6 obviously 23:10 odd 39:25 offer 32:25 office 3:3 6:25 8:5 officer 2:17 17:13,14 47:3 officers 12:10 official 23:21 33:11,16 oh 13:11 14:20 42:11 okay 16:5 19:1 26:10 44:5,14 once 25:8 26:18 ones 14:2 ongoing 37:3 operated 18:7 operating 12:6 operation 29:4 41:1 Meeting Page 10 [operations - program] operations 11:10 12:23 17:12 33:19,21 operator 12:14 operator's 12:11 opportunity 30:14,19 31:19 34:19 39:10 41:23 opposition 39:4 42:19 oppositions 39:3 42:18 44:9 order 4:4 9:7 10:2,16 42:2 45:6 origin 23:25 outcome 47:17 48:14 outside 19:17 outstanding 38:22 39:6 44:14 outtake 41:2 overhead 20:8 overwhelming 18:16 p p 4:1 painting 21:13 pam 2:20 7:7 paper 26:13 parking 38:2 part 16:22 17:16 17:20 24:2 25:9 33:13,22 40:17 41:11,16 partial 20:24 participating 45:8 November 15, 2022 particular 29:19 particularly 30:16 45:9 parties 47:13,16 48:10,13 pass 16:2,6 passed 35:11 patch 14:10 20:1 21:11,12 30:3 patches 12:18 30:24 31:2 paul 2:14 6:18 pbs 35:18 41:2 41:23 people 10:13 14:5,19 17:21 24:7,11 26:23 34:25 36:18 41:13 44:17 person 25:11,12 30:25 persons 30:21 pertaining 10:10 peter 2:10 5:20 5:21 27:1,2 42:10,13 43:18 44:3 ph.d. 2:4,10 phenomenal 43:20 44:21 45:2 phil 36:13 phone 4:9 phones 4:14 phony 11:25 12:8 20:1 phrase 23:3,6,16 23:19,21 24:5 phrases 23:23 physicists 41:3 pick 36:18 picture 24:10 placing 22:6 planes 20:8 planning 34:20 played 12:4 pleasant 4:2 45:14 please 4:17 6:24 15:3,4 19:4 23:1 24:17,24 34:14 34:16,17 pleased 8:8 34:10 36:15 pm 1:7 point 15:11,17 31:14 portfolio 9:25 13:16 27:6 32:16 portray 11:16 position 31:6 44:10 positioning 21:15 positive 37:22 pound 40:20 powerful 12:5 26:18 practice 43:5 practiced 19:23 practitioners 33:19 prefer 10:2 preferable 9:18 preferences 27:8 preferred 19:20 21:24 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 prepared 9:16 48:4 prerogative 30:14 present 4:18,22 4:25 5:12,18,21 6:24 7:3,6,8,10 7:13,16,20,24 8:2,7,13,14,17 8:20,24 17:23 president 3:4 8:11 13:3 35:14 press 6:10 pretended 12:19 pride 18:14 princess 36:5 prior 24:19 45:21 47:6 probably 16:14 17:24 problem 9:22 proceed 9:6 10:21 19:4 23:1 34:17 37:16 proceeding 48:6 proceedings 6:8 46:14 47:4,6,7 47:10 48:7 process 18:22 produced 35:18 41:15 production 30:4 professional 43:17 program 9:10 9:13 10:25 11:3 22:21 24:24 25:2 27:22 29:13 30:16 39:10 Meeting Page 11 [project - reviewed] project 3:5,6 8:12,16 13:4,5 projects 36:3 38:2 41:9 promise 25:2 proud 10:8 provide 11:2 45:5 provided 30:18 provides 28:24 public 2:3 4:12 4:19 5:23 6:1,11 11:4 42:5 45:10 45:18,21 47:1 47:23 publishing 2:13 6:18 pull 44:23 pursuant 42:22 put 15:13 43:15 44:19,24 pyrotechnic 11:22 q qualified 2:7,9 2:10 5:1,10,16 5:19 47:8 question 22:25 24:14 34:16 35:8 37:8 39:17 39:18,19 questions 15:14 17:25 22:20 24:23 38:13 41:25 42:8 quick 39:16 quickly 29:21 34:12 quiet 17:5 November 15, 2022 quite 27:10,11 31:4,22 39:24 40:18 41:7 quorum 5:25 quote 12:19 29:22 36:5 r recommended 2:4,5,8 4:23 5:4 5:7,13 14:9 15:1 15:6 21:25 27:16 record 6:22 25:14 38:24 44:25 46:2 r 4:1 47:10 48:7 radio 12:7,14 14:8 20:17 21:7 recorded 46:6 47:7 21:13 33:25 recording 41:6 reached 16:25 47:9 48:5 34:10 redesign 37:16 read 25:21,25 reduced 47:8 26:20 34:25 reflect 14:3 35:25 43:21 reflected 23:24 reading 37:24 refrain 24:24 real 12:11,13 register 45:20 19:16 24:7,7 related 29:23 31:3 47:12 48:9 really 15:17 relative 47:15 22:18 26:14,19 48:12 27:5,10 28:9 reliving 31:12 29:20 30:19 remarks 15:24 31:4,9,10,18 16:11 39:24 41:13,14 remember 15:2 43:15,20,21 30:22 31:22 reason 4:15 34:8 reasons 10:4 recognition 11:8 remembered 37:4 13:21 31:24 remind 4:7,7,12 recognizable 24:17 14:15 recognized 25:1 reminds 32:1 recognizing 29:4 remotely 6:11 removed 22:5 recommend repatriation 41:22 40:5 recommendati... replicating 14:2 18:19 18:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 report 6:5 9:17 10:23 42:21,24 43:3,9,10,20 44:1,11 reporter 24:19 25:4,13 represent 33:15 representatives 9:16 represented 21:2 representing 2:3 4:19 5:23 20:25 21:6,16 represents 20:15 20:18,20,21 reproduced 18:9 respect 28:11 43:11 respond 4:18 23:10,12 rest 39:12 restate 25:11 resulted 36:18 retreating 12:17 returned 31:24 revealed 19:18 reverse 15:8 20:14,15,22 21:3,12,18,22 21:23,24 22:4 22:12 26:5,16 26:17 27:9 28:12,17,23 29:6 33:7 38:17 review 6:4,6 9:17 32:19 37:19 42:3 reviewed 14:24 14:24 Meeting Page 12 [revised - sorry] revised 10:3 35:13 rhythm 31:15 rick 3:4 8:11,13 13:2,11 35:7 41:1,11 ridiculous 25:23 right 15:1 19:5 rivera 48:3,19 robert 2:19 robin 2:7 3:1 5:10,12 7:25 28:14,15 32:24 37:11 45:24 46:1 rode 12:18 roger 7:4 roles 16:16 roy 3:6 8:15,17 13:4 15:8,15 16:6,7,12 18:2 23:13,20 24:1 33:6 39:22 rubber 11:21 running 6:16 russell 2:21 7:9 s s 4:1 sadly 35:11 safe 45:14 saint 37:1 salmon 2:7 5:11 5:12,12 28:14 28:15,15 45:24 45:25 satisfied 29:16 save 39:18 saving 11:13 saw 22:1 33:10 November 15, 2022 saying 36:19 44:6 46:7 sayles 35:10 scale 37:20 scarinci 2:8 5:14 27:20 scholars 35:4 scoring 39:19 screen 19:2 screenplay 36:2 sculpture 2:7 5:10 season 45:12,15 seat 40:21 second 27:4 38:24 42:12 43:19 44:2,3 46:3,4,6 seconded 42:14 seconding 25:12 seconds 38:21 secrecy 39:21 secret 17:7 40:9 40:12 secretary 6:2 42:5,24 43:5 section 42:22 security 12:2 17:9,14 see 15:10 22:14 29:16 30:1,7 31:2,10,10 40:23 41:23 seeing 24:15 42:19 select 15:11 selections 27:16 senate 2:8 5:7,13 43:1 sending 12:12 33:25 senior 2:13,15 2:18,19,24 3:2 7:1,4,21 8:3 sense 32:1 sent 12:9 september 6:3 42:6 43:3,8 served 10:8 15:19 18:5 30:22 service 11:7,9 12:3 18:7,15 19:11,13 20:12 21:20 22:11,13 31:3 32:4 34:9 services 43:1 setting 20:7 settled 15:7 seven 13:23 22:12 sew 21:10 sewing 14:10 30:3 share 13:9 19:1 25:18 30:15 32:13 sharing 29:14 sherman 19:14 shirt 14:11 shooting 24:7 short 24:8 shoulder 12:18 shout 44:16 shown 19:24 shows 28:8 side 15:14 signal 11:7 12:3 12:7 18:7 19:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 19:13 20:12 21:20 22:11,13 31:7 33:22,25 signature 47:21 48:18 signed 6:11 36:1 significant 11:14 signify 46:7 simple 24:4,8 simulate 12:5 single 26:21 sir 6:12 9:9 sister 12:4 sit 9:17 sitting 18:13 six 20:12 size 11:17 skills 47:11 48:8 slightly 6:16 38:3 slow 31:16 small 26:5 soldier 13:6,7 20:2,16,18,19 21:12,15 soldierly 17:11 29:24 soldiers 12:15 15:18,22 16:21 17:4 19:8,19,25 20:4,7 29:24 33:8,15 somebody 24:9 son 17:12,13 sonic 12:2 14:7 18:8 40:19 sooner 40:10 sorry 5:8 25:17 37:23 Meeting Page 13 [sort - thank] sort 26:13 sound 12:4 sounds 12:6 18:9 21:4 sources 40:1 soviets 40:7 sowing 20:1 speak 4:12 10:9 16:7 31:19 speaker 2:4 4:23 21:3 speakers 12:5 speaking 24:20 25:6,7 special 11:6 12:8 12:15,22 14:8 14:12 19:10,13 20:11,13,22 21:1,11,16,20 22:10 29:3 33:19 specialist 2:18 3:2 7:2 8:4 specifically 5:1,9 5:16,19 spectacular 43:16 speed 34:3 spelling 21:8 spent 16:15 spies 12:16 spoof 33:25 spring 36:24 staff 6:23 44:14 45:2,10,16 stafford 2:17 6:25 8:21,23,23 9:8,22 11:1 15:3 15:25 16:5 23:8 33:1,5 37:21,23 November 15, 2022 stakeholders 10:24 14:25 standing 20:21 standpoint 24:12 27:10 30:4 stands 20:2 39:6 46:12 star 22:6 36:1 start 9:5,12 17:8 19:2,6 24:11 started 25:22 starting 36:18 state 25:5 40:19 states 12:25 18:9 42:23 statute 43:2,4 stay 39:12 stephanie 3:7 8:18,18,20 13:6 15:16 18:1,3,3 stepson 13:5 stop 13:12 21:21 stopped 36:4 story 35:24 36:17,19 37:3 strike 30:6 string 21:8 strongly 26:4 studies 12:23 studios 41:6 stuff 13:20 37:3 40:13 41:15 style 21:7 subject 17:25 submit 42:24 submitted 13:15 subterfuge 19:23 suggest 10:21 42:1 suggested 10:3 22:6 suggestion 9:20 suggestions 43:11 sullivan 2:18 7:1 7:3 13:1 18:21 18:25 19:5 33:3 summary 13:14 superimposed 20:23 support 26:4 27:7,15,23 29:6 41:8 sure 4:8 25:8,10 36:10 37:1 surprises 13:19 surviving 34:2 survivors 40:6 sutherlin 44:22 swear 10:11,14 sworn 47:6 t tableaus 11:23 tactical 11:11 take 25:10 29:25 30:13 34:19 35:7 43:23 46:13 taken 47:4,14 48:11 takes 12:23 talk 10:12 12:20 talked 17:12 talking 4:10 41:3 tank 12:1 19:9 19:14,16,18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 20:5 21:16 30:2 tanks 11:21 14:6 20:8 25:23 targets 18:14 task 18:20 tate 3:2 8:3,7 team 32:23 teams 4:10 tech 21:14 technical 6:14 16:23 22:20 40:25 technician 18:6 technicians 18:8 technique 40:24 telegraph 21:14 telegrapher 19:24 33:23 telegraphers 34:1 tell 17:10 23:7 37:3 ten 15:18 terms 26:6 33:18 terrific 13:14 terry 3:1 7:25 8:2 testifying 47:6 text 37:13 texture 26:19 thank 6:21 9:2 9:20 11:3 13:7 13:13,13 15:25 16:13 18:2,23 18:25 22:17 24:13 26:7,8,24 26:25 27:17 28:1,3,4,12,13 28:15 29:7,8,10 29:14 30:11,11 Meeting November 15, 2022 Page 14 [thank - van] 30:13 32:4,20 33:3 34:6,7,18 35:6 37:5,7,17 38:7,10 39:7 41:17,18,20 43:14,21 44:25 45:1,2,15 46:13 thanks 18:17,20 29:11 37:18 theatrical 20:22 theatrics 12:16 theory 46:10 thing 33:21 things 15:10 16:8,20 17:5,11 23:15 29:25 35:21 36:15 39:13 40:8 think 9:19 10:14 13:16 14:5,20 15:2 17:23 26:14,17,19 27:11 28:6,24 29:4,15 30:7,9 30:19 32:5 34:23 35:5 37:8 43:19 thinking 24:3 25:23,24 thought 23:22 25:20 thoughts 37:16 thousands 11:13 thread 21:9 30:3 30:7 three 13:2,16,25 14:16 15:7 19:19,22 21:3 26:5,16 27:8 28:11,17,18 29:6,17,19 31:10 37:11 38:17 thrilled 9:24 tie 24:3 tighten 38:4 time 4:11 16:14 16:24 23:19 24:20,21 30:19 31:2 32:11 35:17 43:7 timing 9:15 21:14 title 42:23 titled 35:22 titling 35:21 today 5:25 6:18 6:23 8:10 12:22 13:8 28:5 37:14 41:1,7 45:17 today's 5:25 told 17:1,5,11,15 18:5 top 17:7 21:6,15 22:3 40:9,12 totally 9:11,11 touched 31:4 track 17:20 20:3 24:20 tracks 12:1 traffic 12:8 training 31:5 transcriber 48:1 transcript 48:4 48:6 transcriptionist 47:9 transmitter 20:17 transmitters 21:7 transmitting 26:13 traveling 18:23 36:23 treasury 42:5,25 trickery 19:16 tried 23:4 24:8 troops 11:6 19:10,13 20:11 20:14 21:12,20 22:11 truck 40:20 trucks 11:21 true 47:10 48:6 try 13:12 23:18 37:4 trying 15:21 17:21 35:17 tucker 2:9 5:17 5:18 29:9,10,11 37:7,8 38:7,10 tuesday 1:6 4:3 4:5,6 turn 22:16 26:9 27:1,18 28:2,13 29:8 turning 22:18 turret 21:15 two 10:6 12:24 14:12 15:11,16 19:11 20:23 27:11 28:25 33:7,13 34:5 types 11:18 20:16 typewriting 47:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 u u.s. 11:11 12:22 14:18 16:9 45:3 unanimously 15:7 underneath 38:2 underscore 32:7 understand 39:14 understood 26:1 undertaken 21:18 uniform 20:1 unique 11:8,15 29:13 unit 12:4,13 15:20 18:12 35:11 36:11,16 36:22 40:14 united 12:25 18:9 42:23 units 11:11,17 12:6,24 14:15 14:18 unity 20:1 unofficial 14:14 unoriginal 35:21 unquote 12:20 29:22 unser 2:16 6:19 upcoming 45:19 urban 43:2 urgency 15:20 use 4:15 20:19 33:20 utilized 11:18 v van 2:10 5:20,21 5:21 27:2,2 39:16 41:18 Meeting Page 15 [van - young] 42:10,10 43:18 43:18 44:3,4 variety 11:15 22:14 various 16:16 20:20 29:24 vasquez 2:19 7:4 7:6 vehicle's 21:13 vehicles 11:22 12:18 verbiage 38:19 veteran 10:8 veterans 10:5 16:17 17:14 34:3 victory 11:14 video 1:8 41:2 45:17 vietnam 10:8 31:23 view 20:24 virtual 45:18 virtually 45:9 visual 11:19 14:7 19:17 20:20 21:17 46:10 visuals 24:4 w wait 30:1 walter 18:4 want 4:16 9:12 13:12,14,24 15:17 24:1 26:20 28:4 31:17 32:3 36:10 39:7 40:4 43:19 44:16 45:13 November 15, 2022 wanted 14:3,12 14:16 16:1 25:18 29:18 33:6,13 44:24 war 11:10 13:23 17:2,19 20:6 27:4 29:22 31:23 33:9 35:10 36:20 40:3 warms 31:18 warren 2:11 6:9 6:12,13 7:17,20 7:20 44:15,16 wartime 12:24 way 23:21 30:3 30:5 40:4 ways 39:25 we've 9:24 17:20 41:9,12,12 wealth 39:8 week 17:13 weekend 45:11 weeks 45:21 weighed 38:1 weinman 2:24 7:21,23 welcome 16:2 23:11 39:11 went 35:23 whitman 2:13 6:18 winding 40:2 winners 41:10 wish 18:16 45:10 witness 47:5 won 31:9 wonderful 9:19 19:5 26:2 29:16 30:9 41:15 word 26:21 words 15:12 16:2 34:4 wore 12:17 work 18:10 29:3 31:17 40:17,25 44:21 45:4 worked 13:2 19:22 41:3 44:20 working 27:7 works 27:11 35:2 world 2:15 6:19 11:10 20:6 27:4 29:22 31:23 35:10 36:20 worthy 23:22 34:24 wraps 39:20 writing 34:20 44:19 written 35:8 36:2,11 wrong 15:9 y yeah 24:2 25:17 27:20 35:20 37:18,19 38:8 39:24 year 13:23 16:8 35:12 43:3,6 44:11,20 years 13:22 16:15,20 17:6 39:20 young 41:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376