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CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 1 CCAC Public Meeting Moderated by Mary Lannin Wednesday, March 24, 2021 10:00 a.m. Videoconference Meeting US Mint 801 9th Street Northwest Washington, D.C. 20001 (202) 354-7770 Reported by: Natalie Schmitting JOB No.: 4477107 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 2 A P P E A R A N C E S List of Attendees: Mary Lannin, Chair of the CCAC Dr. Peter van Alfen, CCAC member Arthur Bernstein, CCAC member Dr. Lawrence Brown, CCAC member Sam Gill, CCAC member Dr. Dean Kotlowski, CCAC member Robin Salmon, CCAC member Dennis Tucker, CCAC member Thomas Uram, CCAC member Donald Scarinci, CCAC member Michael Moran, CCAC member Greg Weinman, senior legal counsel, CCAC Brandon Hall, Senior Associate Editor of Coin Update and Mint News Blog Mike Unser, Founder and Editor of CoinNews Media Group, LLC Maggie Judkins, Editor of Numismatic News April Stafford, Chief of the Office of Design Management, U.S. Mint Megan Sullivan, Senior Design Specialist, U.S. Mint www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 3 A P P E A R A N C E S (CONT'D) Boneza Hanchock, Design Manager, U.S. Mint Pam Borer, Design Manager, U.S. Mint Russell Evans, Design Manager, U.S. Mint Roger Vasquez, Design Manager, U.S. Mint Joseph Menna, Chief Engraver, U.S. Mint Ron Harrigal, Manager of Design and Engraving, U.S. Mint Betty Birdsong, Deputy Director of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs Sheila Barnett, Attorney Advisor and Attorney assigned to the 2022 America Innovation $1 Coin Program Matt Shaeff, Director of Communications and Stakeholder Outreach for the Rhode Island Commerce Corporation John Michael Zanin, the State of Vermont Governor's Constituent Services Office Colter Minix, Director of the Washington D.C. Office, for the Office of Governor Andy Beshear Don R. Johnson, Director of the Constituent Services and Community Relations for the State Capital www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 4 C O N T E N T S PAGE Call to Order - Mary Lannin, Chair of the CCAC 5 Review and Discussion of the Candidate Designs for the 2022 American Innovation $1 Coin Program: Rhode Island - April Stafford 14 Vermont - April Stafford 54 Kentucky - April Stafford 77 Tennessee - April Stafford 113 Adjourn - Mary Lannin, Chair of the CCAC 141 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 5 P R O C E E D I N G S MS. LANNIN: This I will call -- to order. is meeting of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee for Wednesday, March 25, 2021. To ensure that we have a quorum, I want to introduce the members of the committee. Please respond, "Present," when I call your name. Dr. Peter van DR. vAN ALFEN: MS. LANNIN: DR. BROWN: MS. LANNIN: MR. GILL: MS. LANNIN: Present. Dr. Lawrence Brown? Present. Sam Gill? Present. Dr. Dean Kotlowski? DR. KOTLOWSKI: MS. LANNIN: Present. Art Bernstein? MR. BERNSTEIN: MS. LANNIN: Alfen? Present. Michael Moran will be with us, slightly later on in the meeting. Robin Salmon? MS. SALMON: Present. MS. LANNIN: Donald Scarinci? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 6 Dennis Tucker? MR. TUCKER: Dennis Tucker -- MS. LANNIN: Tom Uram? I do not know if he has been able to call in. Tom, was that you? MR. TUCKER: This is Dennis, Mary. MS. LANNIN: Okay. Dennis -- and I am Mary Lannin. I am Chair of the CCAC. For the legal people, I believe we have a quorum. MR. WEINMAN: Yes. We do. MS. LANNIN: So before we continue this meeting, I, again, would like to remind each member of the committee to mute his or her phone, or microphone on the Webex program when you are not talking -MR. TUCKER: Actually -- MS. LANNIN: And to announce your name prior to speaking each time, so that the court reporter can accurately attribute the statements to you and make it easy to do the minutes. Additionally, I remind the public to mute your phone, and that this is a listening only hearing for the public. The agenda for today's portion of the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 7 public meeting includes; a review and discussion of obverse and reverse candidate designs for the 2022 American Innovation $1 Coin Program, which includes designs featuring innovations from the states of Rhode Island, Vermont, Kentucky, and Tennessee. This program is authorized by public law 115-197. Before we begin today's proceedings, I would like to ask the liaison to the CCAC, Ms. Jennifer Warren, do we have any members of the press on the call today? MS. WARREN: Yes, Madam Chairman. Brandon Hall, senior associate editor of Coin Update and Mint News Blog, Mike Unser, founder and editor of CoinNews Media Group, LLC, and Maggie Judkins, editor of Numismatic News. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, so much. All right. For the record, I would also like to confirm the following mint staff that are on the call today. Please indicate present, after I have called your name. April Stafford, chief officer of design management? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 8 MS. STAFFORD: MS. LANNIN: Present. Megan Sullivan, senior design specialist? MS. SULLIVAN: MS. LANNIN: Present. Thank you. Boneza Hanchock, design manager? MS. STAFFORD: Madam chair? I am sorry. Just a point of clarification. It is Boneza Hanchock. MS. LANNIN: MS. STAFFORD: I am Sorry. No. No. No problem. I just wanted to put that on record. And I believe Boneza, you are here, right? MS. HANCHOCK: MS. LANNIN: present. Thank you. Thank you, so much, Boneza -MS. STAFFORD: And she will be our -- MS. LANNIN: It is -- it will be so nice when we can all meet in person and straighten this stuff out, again. MS. STAFFORD: That is right. MS. HANCHOCK: No problem. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 9 MS. LANNIN: Thank you for -- MS. STAFFORD: No worries. Boneza will be our screen operator this morning. MS. LANNIN: Oh. Great. Thanks, Boneza. Pam Borer? MS. BORER: Present. MS. LANNIN: Thank you. Russell Evans -MR. EVANS: Present. MS. LANNIN: Roger Vasquez Design Manager? MR. VASQUEZ: Present. MS. LANNIN: Joe Menna -- Mint chief engraver? MR. MENNA: Present. MS. LANNIN: Ron Harrigal, manager of design and engraving? MR. HARRIGAL: Good morning, Mary. I am here. MS. LANNIN: Hi, Ron. Jennifer Warren is here. Jennifer, you want to say, "Yes," to make it legal? MS. WARREN: Yes. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 10 MR. SCARINCI: I just joined the meeting. MS. LANNIN: Okay. Greg Weinman, senior legal counsel and counsel to the CCAC. MR. WEINMAN: Good morning, Mary. And I am present. MS. LANNIN: Good morning, Greg. Betty Birdsong, deputy director of legislative and intergovernmental affairs. MS. BIRDSONG: MS. LANNIN: Present. Good morning, Betty. Sheila Barnett, attorney advisor and attorney assigned to the 2022 America Innovation $1 Coin Program, which will, again -- as I repeat today - be about Rhode Island, Vermont, Kentucky, and Tennessee. Sheila? MS. BARNETT: Yes. I am present. MS. LANNIN: Good morning. And -- MR. URAM: Madam Chair, Tom Uram present. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 11 MS. LANNIN: All right, Tom. Nice to hear your voice. MR. SCARINCI: MS. LANNIN: And -No. I did not, Donald. Thank you for coming in. Okay. And so we have the following liaisons on the call today for the 2022 American $1 Coin Program -For the state of Rhode Island, we have Matt Shaeff -- if I pronounced his name correctly -- who is the Chief Marketing Officer, State of Rhode Island --. Matt, are you with us? MR. SHAEFF: I am on. Thank you. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Matt. For the state of Vermont, we have John Michael Zanin, who is from the Governor's Constituent Services Office. MR. ZANIN: MS. LANNIN: I am here. -- director -- thank you, John. From the state of Kentucky, we have Coulter Minix, who is the director of the Washington D.C. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 12 Office, for the governor -- the Office of Governor Andy Beshear. MR. MINIX: Good morning. I am present. MS. LANNIN: Good morning. And for the state of Tennessee, we have Don R. Johnson, who is the director of the constituent services and community relations for the State Capital. Are you here? MR. JOHNSON: I am present. Good morning. MS. LANNIN: Thank you. Good morning. So thank you for all -- everybody who called in this morning, from your various and sundry places. All right. We are moving to the business of the day. So first I would like to start with the Mint. Does anybody have anything -- or addresses that we need to know about? Any issues? MS. WARREN: No, Madame Chairwoman. This is Jennifer. MS. LANNIN: Okay. Thank you, so much. April Stafford, chief of the Mint's Office of Design Management, will now present the reverse candidate www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 13 designs for the 2022 American Innovation $1 Coin Program. We are going to do these state by state. And we are going to be voting on our design choices, each -- as each state is finished. So the first portfolio to be considered is the reverse candidate designs for the state of Rhode Island 2022 American Innovation $1 Coin. April? MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. The American Innovation $1 Act requires the secretary of the treasury to mind and issue one dollar coins with the reverse design honoring innovation -- or innovators from each of the 50 states, the territories, and the District of Columbia. In accordance with the legislation, the United States Mint worked with the governors of the four states being honored in 2022 to develop design concepts for the coins. These concepts have been approved by the Secretary of the Treasury. The governors were asked to propose from one to three design concepts, and artist created www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 14 designs based on all that were approved by the Secretary. The advisory committees are not obligated to choose a theme, and then select a design from that theme. Instead, they can recommend the design they believe will create the best coin, should they chose. The state that feels strongly about a particular theme may choose to submit only one. Others choose to highlight a variety of innovations, or innovators, tied to their state. The Mint worked with liaisons and experts from each state in developing the candidate designs you will see today. The obverse design for this program will remain the same as previous years and will contain a unique gear privy mark to distinguish this year's program. As you noted, we will start with Rhode Island. They submitted one design concept, and that is Nathanael Herreshoff's Naval innovation. So here is a little background. Nathanael Herreshoff was an American Naval architect, mechanical engineer, and yacht design innovator. His designs ranged from a 16-foot sailboat, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 15 for training children of yachtsmen, to the 144-foot America's Cup defender, Reliance, with the sail area of 16,000 square feet. Herreshoff's greatest innovation was a yacht design. In 1876 he introduced multi-hulled boats to yacht racing when his catamaran, Amaryllis, won the New York Centennial Regatta. He received the first U.S. patent for a sailing catamaran in 1927. Required inscriptions are, "United States of America," and, "Rhode Island." The governor's office identified preferences for designs numbers 1, 2, and 5, in this portfolio. On the phone with us today is Matt Shaeff, chief marketing officer for the state of Rhode Island, should you have any questions. The U.S. Commission of Fine Arts met last Thursday and recommended design two for this coin. I will note for the committee members that the Mint is aware that further technical correction -- minor -- nothing to change the composition that you see in front of you today -- that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 16 minor corrections for technical accuracy might be necessary. And should any of the designs move forward and require such revisions, the Mint would work with the relevant subject matter experts in nautical engineering to do so. All right. So we will start with design one. This design depicts Nathanael Herreshoff's famous Reliance yacht at full speed in the waters surrounding Rhode Island. The design is bordered by a rope evoking the nautical scene. Design 1 is a preference of the Rhode Island Governor's Office. Design 2 depicts a sailboat racing through the water off Newport, Rhode Island. The rigging in this design shoes a Gaff Cutter that is based on Herreshoff's Gloriana but shown here with a smaller waterline. Mr. Herreshoff's innovative crosscut cloth pattern can be seen in the sail of the yacht. Design 2 is also a preference of the Rhode Island Governor's Office. And design 2 was also the recommendation of the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts. We will show design 3. Design 4, another sailboat can be www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 17 seen in the background. And design 5, the Watch Hill Lighthouse can be seen in the background. This is one of the oldest lighthouses in America. Design 5 was noted by the Rhode Island Governor's Office, also as a preference. Moving on to design 7. This features a Gaff Cutter based on Herreshoff's Gloriana, floating above the waterline. Below the waterline, graphic art hints at a workshop plan drawing that highlights Mr. Herreshoff's innovation of the ballast keel. The crosscut cloth pattern is illustrated in the sails. Design 8 is an image of the Resolute, the last of a succession of five straight America's Cup winning yachts designed by Nathanael Herreshoff. The unique designs, variety of materials used, and construction methods employed by the Herreshoff's boatyards were visionary, constantly evolving and unbeatable. Design 9 shows a detail of a cutter similar to Herreshoff's massive Reliance, the largest www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 18 single mast sailboat ever, introduced in 1903. It was built of bronze and steel, over 143 feet long, and filled with below-deck winches to control its gigantic 16,000 square foot four ton sails and required a crew of 66 men to sail. Undefeated in every race, it had a design that prompted a change in America's Cup racing rules that banned the entry of such large, expensive, and dangerous boats. Design 10 features one of Nathanael Herreshoff's most ground-breaking innovations. In 1876 he constructed a double-hulled sailing boat of his own design and received the first U.S. patent -- patent number 189,459 -- for a catamaran. The craft, Amaryllis, raced her maiden regatta on June 22, 1876 at Centennial Regatta of the New York Yacht Club and achieved a significant victory. This demonstrated the distinct racing performance advantages afforded by catamarans over the standard monohulls. As a result of this event, catamarans were barred from organizing sailing competitions until the 1970's. Madam Chair, that concludes Rhode Island's candidate designs for consideration. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 19 MS. LANNIN: Thanks, so very much, April. Wow. Really great art. Okay. So let's start with Sam Gill, if that is all right with Sam. MR. GILL: Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes. I agree with you Mary. These are beautiful renditions. Very, very pretty art. I was interested in number 1, and I skipped over to number 3, because I just like the way the, "United States of America," was more bold, there. I liked number 5 with the lighthouse. And I liked number 8, only because it had the naval design innovation -- and I could do without that. I think the prettiest coin would be number 1. I like the script of how, "Rhode Island," is written. But the action on 2, 3, 4, and 5, is just wonderful, too. So I am going to say number 1 would make the prettiest coin. But number 2, or number 5 are close seconds. MS. STAFFORD: MS. LANNIN: MS. STAFFORD: Madam Chair? Yes, April? I apologize for www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 20 interrupting. I neglected to throw to our liaison for Rhode Island. Typically I do so before introducing the candidate design. So I wanted to give Matt Shaeff an opportunity if he wanted to say any words to the committee before we got too far into deliberations. MS. LANNIN: That would be great, April. Matt? MR. SHAEFF: Madam Chairman, April, thank you. And thank you to the members of the committee for the opportunity to join you today. I just wanted to give a big thank you to the staff at the Mint, including Russ, who have worked extremely well with us and have been so accommodating as we have gone through some transitions, here, in Rhode Island. For those of you who do not know, this project started under Governor Gina Raimondo, who is now Secretary Raimondo, as she was nominated and confirmed by the U.S. Senate to serve as the U.S. Commerce Secretary. And I just want to note, the ocean state -- the Herreshoff's design not only pays homage www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 21 to Rhode Island's ocean state mantra, but our deep roots in manufacturing and boat building. But it also embodies the spirit of innovation. The legendary Herreshoff Manufacturing Company began operations in 1878 in Bristol. And of those of you who do not know, it was founded by two brothers. One was a blind boat building -- John Herreshoff -- and then, Nathanael Herreshoff was a Navy architect and steam engineer. And over the two years the two brothers single handedly put their small town and new company on the map, thanks to their technological innovation. So on behalf of our new governor, Governor McKee, we thank you and the full committee for your consideration and this great opportunity for our ocean state. And we hope all of you will get some time to come enjoy our beautiful ocean state this summer. MS. LANNIN: Well, Matt, thank you for the additional comments. And I look forward to some stuffed clams when I can get there. MR. SHAEFF: We would love to have you. MS. LANNIN: All right. All right. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 22 MS. WARREN: Madam Chairwoman. This is MS. LANNIN: Yes, Jennifer? MS. WARREN: If you could also possibly Jennifer. just ask if Joe and Ron had any comments before we continue on with the rest of the members? MS. LANNIN: All righty. I will do so. Joe, and Ron, you are on the spot. MR. HARRIGAL: This is Ron. I will defer to Joe. MS. LANNIN: MR. MENNA: Okay. I am Joe. Thanks, Ron. We went over these pretty carefully. And you know, there is some concerns with stuff like the ropes, and -- you know, things -- like, smaller elements. But we will be able to manage everything. So everything here is sculptable and I feel like we are good to go. MS. LANNIN: I have no doubt that it will be, no matter which design we pick, Joe. Thank you. So now, let's call in Dr. Lawrence Brown, if we could. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 23 DR. BROWN: Thank you, Madame Chair. It took me a little bit to, in fact, unmute myself. MS. LANNIN: DR. BROWN: All right. Good morning to everyone. I echo the comments of -- you, as well as my colleague who gave his opinion who gave his opinion before. This is a beautiful set of designs. I really am impressed with it. I focus, quite frankly, on as many elements as I could see, 'cause representing the public, I am looking for the aesthetic value that Joe Q Public, or Mary Q Public would be able to understand and embrace. Even as much as I see the value of embracing the recommendations of the CFA as well as of the governor of the state, I lean towards, in fact, the design 5. And I lean toward that because of the fact that it has in it the lighthouse, and I think it would be beautiful to maintain the -- of Rhode Island -- and it is very conspicuous -- as well as, "United States." And it also allowed you to see the person who were operating the boat. So, to me, this -and it had action, too. So the addition of action, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 24 plus the people, the lighthouse, was the reason why I chose number 5. I must admit that I had some comfort level with also number 4. So those would be the two. But I would lean more to number 5. Thank you, very much. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. Donald Scarinci? MR. SCARINCI: Thank you, Mary. Listen, I -- you know, I am very passionate here about number 1. I think your -- all the -- and Sam, you are right. These designs are nice. But then again, how can you get hurt with sailboats, right? I mean, sailboats on coins -- beautiful. And what I love about -- and we can get in the weeds with some of these other designs. I am a little surprised the Commission of Fine Arts selected number 2. You know, I do not understand why. You know, number 1 is elegant. It would make a beautiful coin. It is perfect in this series. It goes with the other coins in the series just about as good as you can -- you know, without www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 25 creating an abstraction of a sailboat. But what I love about this is on a coin -- you know, these sails -- the lines of the sails -- this is a work of art. You know, it is -- you know, so people might want to say, "Well, hey -- you know, you got to get that sailboat in there." You know, or, "Hey -- you know, look at all the detail in the rigging in number 2 and number 3." And, "Hey -- you know, look at the wave in number 7." And, "Look at all these extraneous things." You know, but the lines of the boat in number 1 -- you know, are -- it is just elegant. You know, and I think -- and that is the word for it. I -- you know, I would love to just make a motion for this coin right now. To me there is nothing to discuss. I mean -- you know, we can argue about detail, and -- you know, it would be great to have these gride things. But you know, look at the other coins in the series. You know, if you are persuaded to look at some of the other designs -- you know, then take a peek -- and that is the great thing about being here. You know, I get -- it is an old www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 26 edition -- but you know, I have copies of this thing everywhere. You know, just take a look at some of the other designs in the series. This goes with the series beautifully. And I think it is -- and I think we would be proud to have this as a coin. And I think it -- be proud to have -- would be proud as a state with this coin. So I support -- needless to say, I am just delighted with this coin. And in general -- you know, I am delighted with the art. The other designs are good. This coin is just over the top great. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Donald. A man of strong opinion, there. I would like to call on Robin Salmon next, please. MS. SALMON: Thank you, Madame Chair. I really had a hard time with this because everything looks so good. And I am drawn to different designs for different reasons. The one design though, that for me has the most reasons is number 5. And I like that because it does show action. The -- it shows the participants actually sailing. It has the historic www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 27 lighthouse. The lettering is well balanced. And it also has some of the teaching points that I think are important in coins of innovation. And talking about thinking of Herreshoff's innovations, I realize everybody is not going to understand that just looking at it. But if they do read the literature that comes with it, it will make the coin even more beautiful. So number 5 is my choice. Although, truly, we cannot go wrong with any of these. Thank you. MS. LANNIN: Thank you so much, Robin. Dennis, please? Dennis Tucker. MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Madame Chair. I will echo what Robin just said. I think that there is not a bad design within this portfolio. So congratulations to the artists. Thank you. Something that I look at when I am considering the American Innovation dollars is the typography. Right? I want to, just, talk a moment about that. I -- balance of the inscriptions should be, the name of the state big, United States of America smaller, and somewhere some indication of what www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 28 the innovation is in words, if it is necessary. Some will be self-evident, like the telephone for Massachusetts, or the lightbulb for New Jersey. But if you look at Connecticut's design for the Gerber Variable Scale, there is -- if we had -- if that coin did not have the words, "Gerber Variable Scale," on it, most people looking at the coin would not know what they were looking at. So I just wanted to address that fact a little bit before I look at the designs for Rhode Island. Number 1 is beautiful. It -- for me, it is evocative of Canada's fishing schooner -- and -- so that caught my eye right away. And I think it is very well balanced design, and really catches your eye. I think Rhode Island, good typography there. United States of America is smaller. But there is nothing that really says what the innovation is -- as a coin. It is a beautiful depiction of what Rhode Island is all about, with the ocean -- it connects the ocean. And it is nicely designed. But without reading the literature attached to the coin, it might be at sea -- so to speak -- when it come to the innovation. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 29 I see the appeal of design 2, which was preferred by the governor's office and by the -it is old, it is active. But for me the most -- the best design in this portfolio is number 7, which has not been discussed yet. The inscriptions are properly balanced. Rhode Island is predominant. United States of America is smaller. And the design is not just a sporting scene, but it illustrates the science behind the innovation. It does not come out and say anything about the specific -- you know, it does not name names, or dates, or anything like that. But the graph elements, and the word, "keel," illustrate the science, in my opinion. The water is not flat, but it is shown in motion, which gives the design energy -as some of the other designs have, as well. But -- so for me, number 7 really captures a lot of the elements and factors that we would look for in a good design for this particular program. Thank you, Madam Chair. MS. LANNIN: Dean, are you with us? DR. KOTLOWSKI: Yes. I am, Madam www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 30 Chair. MS. LANNIN: Say your thoughts. DR. KOTLOWSKI: Okay. Two words come to mind here with this portfolio; compelling and clarity. I think many of the designs -- most of the designs are extraordinarily compelling. And yet, as somebody who does not know very much about sailing, I was a little troubled by the lack of clarity when you simply look at the coin without reading the literature that accompanies it. So designs 2, 3, 4, and 5, I think are just absolutely magnificent. And I almost favor 2 and 3, because they really do zero in on the sailboat and have you thinking about the design. Very much like Dennis, I was concerned about a lack of -- I do not know if Dennis exactly said this. I do not want to put words in this mouth. I will just speak for myself -- a lack of text that identified what is really going on here. Because Rhode Island is so closely associated with the ocean -- it is called the ocean state, sailing has been going on for obviously centuries -- millenniums, and what is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 31 the place of this boat in that long tradition. And I do not want to get into posing additions to coins. And I do not even know that we can do this. But I would have been happier -- if you look at either 2 or 3 -if the name Nathanael Herreshoff was at the bottom -let's say from -- you know, four o'clock to eight o'clock, much like you find in design 4, where you have, "United States of America." I do not know if we could put the name of a person who is not depicted on a coin, on a coin. But if you had his name on there, a person looking at the coin would say, "Okay. Rhode Island -- sailboat -who is this Nathanael Herreshoff? I think I am going to look him up." And then, you get the story. A coin cannot tell the whole story. But with a lot of these great designed coins in this portfolio, I just did not feel we were getting enough of the story. There were other coins in the portfolio that had a greater degree of clarify. But I did not find the design compelling. So number 10, for example, you are very clear as to what is going on, here. Rhode Island has made a very, very good case -- an excellent www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 32 case about -- you know, being the home of the first U.S. catamaran. But I did not find that design as compelling as some of the others. And I was listening to Dennis, and I gave a second look -- even before Dennis began to speak -- about design number 7. And I just feel that there is a lot going on in that coin. I think it is a very effective coin from the perspective of the artist in terms of creating a mood. It made me sea sick as I was looking at it. There is a lot going on there. And I do appreciate the science. But I want to listen to what my colleagues on the committee say. If people feel that 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 -- just the sight of that sailboat and whatever literature accompanies the coin -- if that is sufficient for everyone else, I am fine with it, and I am not going to press the point. I do think, though, 2 and 3 really focus our attention on the sailboat, and maybe get us thinking about sailing design more than 4 and 5. 4 might lead us to start to think about sailing races - which, again, is part of this -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 33 because there is another sailboat. And 5 -- and I love the lighthouse. But that might have us thinking that the innovation there has something to do with the relationship between sailing -- or sailboats and lighthouses. Thank you, very much, Madam Chair. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, so much, Dean. Peter van Alfen? DR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Madam Chair. I am going to preface my comments by just saying that I am a huge fan of Nat Herreshoff, and those of you who can see, there is a model of his Columbia on the mantle behind me -- which is the 1899 and 1901 Cup defender. And on that mantle, I also have a piece of Columbia's mast, which is one of my prized possessions. So I have to say, I love this portfolio. I mean, I really want to commend all of the artists for some really wonderful designs. And I will start by commenting on number 3, which I really like as a design. I have some reservations about this, though. I know that this is based on Gloriana, and the artist commented that he www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 34 or she had shortened the waterline. But it makes the boat just seem a little too beamy for one of Herreshoff's actual -- you know, vessels. Beamy, just meaning, it is a little too wide, it seems. And also, Gloriana -- and in fact, there is a recent painting by Russ Kramer, a marine artist, of Herreshoff piloting Gloriana, with a crew of about seven or eight people. And to have only two people on board -- you know, this vessel, if -- you know, even if it is based on Gloriana -- and a little shorter, just seems quite a bit shorthanded for -- you know, a vessel of that size and with that sail area. So you know, there are some -- I guess you would say -- technical reservations I have about 3, even though I find -- you know, the design, overall, very compelling. I have agree with Donald that number 1 is very elegant. I really find that design very compelling as well, too. The only reservation I have about that is that it does not show the full sail or -- and on one of the innovations associated with Herreshoff's -- you know, cutter designs was this gaff sail plan, which is more fully represented in number www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 35 8 -- reverse number 8. And for that reason -- you know, I have a preference for number 8 over number 1 -- just simply because it does show the full sail plan. And I also find the arrangement of the letters and so forth, there, also quite compelling. And the fact that it also includes the inscription, "Naval Design -- or Naval Innovation Design." And that is what I have got to say. Thank you, Madam Chair. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, so much, Peter. Tom Uram? MR. URAM: Thank you, Madam Chair. It is great to be able to make a selection and knowing it is a right answer, because these are all right answers in my opinion. So I guess we look at -- for stylistic, what is the best right answer in anyone's given opinion. I think a collector holding this -- and I went to the -- excuse me -- I did not do Red Book, I did Blue Book. That was the one that was closest to me. And I just looked up the Rhode Island quarter to see what image we had, there -- 'cause I remembered it www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 36 was a sailing vessel as well. And I looked at that and I thought, boy if this bridge was not in the background there, this would have been a cleaner looking quarter. So having said that, when I look at number 1, 2, 5 -- and what was just brought up with number -- I guess it was 8 -- no -- 7. I am sorry. It brings me back to the clean design of number 1. I think that when we look at the plan -- that this is going to be -- we are -- you know, not looking at quarters, we are looking at dollars. And we are looking at gold dollars. We are looking at proofs and -- I have purchased the whole series because I think it is the best kept secret. Not that it will ever be worth a lot of money -- but the history behind this whole innovation series is priceless in itself, and a great education tool. So having said all of that -- and it is personal preference. And I think that is -- we are looking at, here, because I think -- like, as was said by Robin and a number of others -- they are great designs. They are all great designs. So I am going to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 37 stick -- you know, I usually like the coins that do have motion. But I am going to go with number 1 as more of my preference, because of it is so -- it is just so present and so vibrant as it is going to look on the planchette. I also like the roping around the outside of the rim, here. I think it adds another nautical element that is very discreet, but relevant. So there is a lot going on with this such simplistic design, that I think will really add to the presence of this historic element for Rhode Island. So I am going to throw most of my -- if not all of my votes to number one. Thank you, Madam Chair. MS. LANNIN: Thanks, so much, Tom. Art Bernstein? MR. BERNSTEIN: Good morning. I came into this meeting convinced number 5 was the best design. I heard Donald's comments and took a more careful look at number 1, and agree it is incredibly elegant. It is beautiful. But I think I am going to stick with my interest in number 5, mostly because of the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 38 lighthouse. I think it adds balance to the coin, and I feel like I am getting two for the price of one. I am getting two innovations. I am getting early lighthouses, and the sailboat design. And I also like the fact that it ties the coin specifically to the state of Rhode Island. All the other designs could be a sailboat in any body of water. But this design, we know is specifically connected to the state of Rhode Island. Thank you. MS. LANNIN: Okay. Thank you, Art. So we are still waiting for Mike to arrive. So I guess it is my turn. I, too, agree with Donald that number 1 is absolutely glorious. I hear my colleagues talk about, "But, really, what does it mean?" I think -- I go to, sort of, the table test with this. If we had all of these designs on the reverse of the coin, which one would be picked up first? And I believe that it would be number 1. But I also want to bring up a little fact that I found interesting, that maybe bridge point www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 39 for us. If we could look at reverse number 10, we started the series with the first U.S. patent on the coin. And so Nat Herreshoff got a patent on the first U.S. catamaran. So given the fact that we are using privy marks throughout the series, and a lot of us want -- you know, what is this, besides a beautiful sailboat -- or beautiful catamaran -- I think that number 10 offers us, kind of, all of the same thing. I tis a beautiful clean design. We are going to have a privy mark, because it is part of the series, and it was patented. So I am going to give serious consideration to number 10, as well. Okay. So do we have any other comments about this? I am the last to talk? Anybody have anything to say? DR. BROWN: Yes. Madame Chair, if I may? MS. LANNIN: DR. BROWN: Yes. Lawrence? I am really and continue to be impressed with the design -- and quite frankly, with the comments by our colleagues on the CCAC. At the same time, I must, in fact, share -- given someone www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 40 who is representing the public -- when you asked the question about which coin are you likely to pick up if you are not an expert and, in fact, you are not a historian -- you are not a collector, which are you likely to pick up? And I think that given that perspective that I would gravitate towards 5, because; number 1, it has action. Number 2 -- and my colleagues have said earlier that you cannot expert a coin to tell the entire story -- meaning, 'cause if it gets too subtle that it is less likely to be -- something to be attractive to -- you know, the public. So I think given the fact that we do recognize that -- you know, dollars are under circulated, and I appreciate that among the public in general. But I think that, in my humble opinion, from the standpoint of Joe Q Public, or someone who is not, in fact, an expertise in art or sculpture, that number 5 gives the opportunity to be able to, in fact, say, "Okay. This is a sailboat. And I am up in Rhode Island. What does that mean?" Because we have to realize that as much we embrace the citizens of Rhode Island, this is, in fact, a coin from the United www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 41 States of America. So that means that it is likely to come and be exposed to others in the public. So -they embrace that. So Madam Chair, thank you for allowing me to add those additional comments. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Lawrence. Does anybody else have anything -MR. SCARINCI: Can I say one more thing, Mary? MS. LANNIN: MR. SCARINCI: Sure, Donald. So first of all, let me just -- since people are looking at number 5 in a serious way -- if you have a dollar coin in your pocket, take it out. And if you do not, the size is right there, right below it. Take a look at what these people are going to look like on that coin. I mean, bugs is what they are going to look like. Bugs. And take -- and the lighthouse? Yeah. You will be able to know it is a lighthouse when you take your -- to it. You know, it is going to be small. You know, it is just going to be small. I mean, the dollar palette is small. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 42 And you know, the point I want to make with this particular series -- every series we look at is different, right? Coins are not generic. And generally collectors collect in a series. You know, they are going to collect this series, but not that series. Maybe -- you know, if you are an American eagle collector, you are going to collect -- you know, that -- those coins every year. And a collector of this series is going to collect this series, and these coins every year. So what you want to look at -- you know, and we went through this discussion -- you know, when we talked about the Marine -- series. And when we talked about the first spouse series, we really did a very important thing. We really focused the Mint on giving us portraits of people of the spouses as they looked when they were alive. Same thing we did with the presidents -- when they were the spouse to the president. Same thing as we did with the presidential dollar series. We asked for portraits of the president when they were the president. Not a later portrait or an earlier portrait. And the only exception to that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 43 was the secretary of the treasury insisted on the Andrew Jackson -- you know, that he knew, right? Which was not the Andrew Jackson when he was president. That is the only exception in the full series. So, when -- my point is, when we look at these coins, I think we have to look at them as they are -- and this particular coin, by the way, is not a circulated coin. Let's not forget that. This coin does not circulate. This does not go in pocket change. This is a collector coin. It is made for collectors. Sold to collectors. It does not circulate. It is never going to win the best circulating category, 'cause it does not circulate, right? So when you look at the series -- when you look at this -- the coin, look at the coin in the context of the series that we are talking about. And you want to be as consistent as you can in the series, for the sake of the people who are collecting these coins, right? You know, because that is who they are made for. They are made for collectors. They are not going into pocket change. They are not going into circulation. You know, I really feel passionately www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 44 that the correct coin in the series is the more elegant coin. And just look at the other coins to compare it. See for yourself. You know, it goes. The detail of these other coins is not necessary. And it is inconsistent with -- you know, the other coins in the series. So that is all I want to say. Needless to say, I am all in with design one. MS. LANNIN: Okay. Let me -- thank you, Donald. And thank you for that clarification of the -how the series -- how you view the series. Let me tell you, as the current chair and the person who gets to answer all of the letters that come into the CCAC mailbox, I am concerned that the comment that Peter made -- that -- you know, there is only two guys sitting on the boat, it is not enough to be a crew -- we are going to get the sailing people that know things down to the nitty gritty, and we are going to get letters of complaint that this is an inaccurate representation. Whereas, design number 1, is clean and elegant. And it is, sort of, like the uber sailboat -- if you know what I mean. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 45 So I just -- I looked at design number 1 and I really have not been able to look past it, since. I know a lot of you are excited about 5. But I am not as excited about it because of the technical accuracy of the -- crew that is going to be needed to sail this. And I think that this is really important. We get letters if somebody is holding their rifle the wrong way, if the trigger guard is off. We get people that really, really look at these things. So sometimes simple is better. And I love number one. All right. Any other comments? MS. WARREN: -- this is Jennifer. Just after you go through the committee, can you also make sure that the liaison, or the Mint, if they have anything else to add. MS. LANNIN: Yeah. I think we just cross talked there, Jennifer. Matt, what do you think of our conversation, so far? MR. URAM: Mary, before they speak, can I finish up on this side? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 46 MS. LANNIN: MR. URAM: Okay -- all right. Sure. I just wanted to also mention that -- what Donald was saying about it being a non-circulating coin. Because they -- if you have not purchased any of the innovations dollars in the portfolios, the descriptions and everything that are part of it are phenomenal. And I do respect everyone's opinion on number 5. But just like when I looked at the Rhode Island quarter, I wished the bridges had not been there, because it takes away from the yacht itself in the quarter. And I -- you know, I -- it -the -- I know everyone likes the lighthouse, but it is not necessary. So by -- you know, if we ended up with number 5, I would almost say, as much as people like lighthouses, it is not necessary. So I think that is a detraction for me, personally. But that is why I also like number 1. Because when you do receive this as a collector, it is so well put together for the description for the collector that it will be a huge image for this series. So I just wanted to add that. Thank you, Madam Chair. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 47 MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Tom. And so, now I can go to Matt Shaeff. Matt, do you have any comments? MR. SHAEFF: I just want to say, Madam Chair, our preference from the governor's team, here, was 1, 2, or 5 -- which seems to align with what a lot of you were talking about. We like 1 for many of the reasons that, yourself, the chair, have talked about. One thing we found very interesting on 2, that we really liked, was the typography of how, "Rhode Island," and, "United States," were displayed. So I am wondering -- I do not know if this is at all possible -- maybe, that typography could be used on one, instead of how, "Rhode Island," is displayed -written out with that typography. But I do not think that we can wrong. You know, as I said, our preference is 1, 2, or 5. But just our immediate thoughts. MS. LANNIN: Okay. Thank you, Matt. So you actually -- on number 1, you would prefer that, "Rhode Island," was curved in the same manner that it www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 48 was on reverse 2? MR. SHAEFF: Yes. Or just even the type face for how, "Rhode," and, "Island," is different than the type face for number 2. And we tend to like the type face on number 2 better. But as I said, one, 2, or 5 would be fine with us. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Matt. Does anybody from the Mint have a comment? MS. STAFFORD: Madam Chair, this is April Stafford. I just wanted to share that our design manager sent me a note that your comments were spot on. The subject matter expert on nautical engineering did -- you know, did pause over the inclusion of figures, because you are exactly right. You know, these large vessels would have had many, many, many people -- you know, on board, running around to propel it forward -- make it go. So I just wanted to share that aspect, in case it is germane to how any members might want to cast their scores. MS. LANNIN: Thank you for clarifying that. As I said, I know one that will be writing to all of these people if we get too many details www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 49 incorrect. DR. VAN ALFEN: Madam Chair, this is Peter van Alfen. I just -- it just occurred to me. If I could just make one more comment about number 1. I think number 1 -- you know, again, will work very well. Looking at this design -- just a technical aspect, the gaff -- which is the pole, basically, that sticks out at an angle from the mast, I think that if the gaff were included in this image, it would -- you know, technically be much more accurate. And I am not sure if that -- I -- that is something that I would hope that the consultants would pick up on. But I do think that number 1 needs to have a representation of the gaff in there, if this is going to go forward -- if this is the design selected. MS. LANNIN: So, Peter, after we vote, maybe -- if this is indeed the one that we pick, you can make a friendly amendment. DR. VAN ALFEN: MS. LANNIN: Okay. Okay? So any further discussion? All right. Thank you, so much. We have in our packets from Jennifer, the score sheets. And so I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 50 would like to take -- let's see. It is 10:52. Greg, how about 11:05? Would that -MR. WEINMAN: Do you want to take a break, Mary? Or just want to move on to the next one, and I can probably -- you want to give -- do you want to take five minutes to score? And then, we can give you -- move on with the next state? MS. LANNIN: And so, then, you are going to give us -- well -MR. WEINMAN: And then, I will let -- right. And then, I will -- well, I will let you know. That way, they -- well, we can keep things moving, if you would like. I can do the tallying. Then, let you know when -MS. LANNIN: I was just thinking of all these friendly amendments that we might have. That it would possibly be easier to -MR. WEINMAN: Sure. Take a break. Then, go ahead. Certainly -- take a break. And -MS. LANNIN: So, committee members, if you could pass your scores to Greg, and we will reconvene at 11:05. Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 51 (Off record) MS. LANNIN: -- number of us, that you can read that out. MR. WEINMAN: Excellent. This time the scoring is out of 30, because we are missing Mr. Moran. So out of possible 30, number 1 received 21 points, making it the high vote getter -- at 21 points. Reverse 2 received 8. Reverse 3 received 6 points. Reverse 4 received 5. Reverse 5 received 10. Reverse 7 received 10. Reverse 8 received 6 points. Reverse 9 received 2 points. And reverse 10 received 5 points. So once again, the clear top scoring design was reverse number 1 with 21 points. MS. LANNIN: That is great. Thank you, so much, Greg. So do we have any motions from the committee? MR. URAM: Mary, can I make a motion? Based on Matt's thought on the design of, "Rhode Island," and the spelling, to give the Mint the authority to position it is a way that might be curved www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 52 and in a different italic, based on the recommendation of the -- Matt in the governor's office. MS. LANNIN: Is there a second to Tom's motion? DR. VAN ALFEN: Peter van Alfen. I second it. MS. LANNIN: Okay. Tom and Peter. All right. Is there any further debate about that? So I will go through the members, and when I call your name say, "Aye," or, "Nay." Sam Gill? MR. GILL: Aye. Dr. Lawrence Brown? MS. LANNIN: DR. BROWN: Aye. MS. LANNIN: MR. SCARINCI: Donald Scarinci? Donald? Yes. Aye. MS. LANNIN: Okay. Tom Uram? Obviously. MS. SALMON: Aye. MS. LANNIN: Dennis Tucker? MR. TUCKER: Aye. MS. LANNIN: Dean Kotlowski? Robin Salmon? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 53 DR. KOTLOWSKI: MS. LANNIN: Aye. Peter van Alfen is second. So I assume, yes? DR. VAN ALFEN: MS. LANNIN: Aye. Arthur Bernstein? MR. BERNSTEIN: Aye. MS. LANNIN: Motion passes unanimously. All right. Thank you, so much. We have one state down, and three to go. DR. VAN ALFEN: Madame Chair, I do not know if this really requires a motion. But I -- you know, the comment that I was making about the technical aspects of the representation of the sail, I assume that since the Mint staff will be working with technical advisors, we do not really need to have a motion on just re-doing the technical aspects of the representation of the rig? MS. STAFFORD: I would agree, Dr. van Alfen. In fact, the design manger sent me a note after you made your observation, and said, "Indeed. Our technical advisor had pointed that very thing out. So, yes, Sir. We will be working with them on that." www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 54 DR. VAN ALFEN: MS. LANNIN: Cool. Okay. Great. So let us move on. April, I would like to turn it over to you. And you are going to be talking about the reverse candidate designs for the Vermont 2022 American Innovation $1 coin. MS. STAFFORD: Yes. Thank you. Vermont submitted a single design concept that is for snowboarding. So a little background. While the concept of riding a board downhill on snow has existed since at least the 1920's, and perhaps for centuries before, during the 1980's Vermont emerged as a center of innovation in snowboarding. Competitions hosted at Vermont resorts led to wider acceptance of the sport, and innovation in foot bindings and new materials allowed riders to make sharper turns, move faster downhill, and eventually perform tricks. Snowboarding's technological development and transformation form a novel recreation to a worldwide competitive phenomenon www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 55 are tied closely to the state of Vermont. Required inscriptions are, "United States of America," and, "Vermont." The governor prefers design 5, as diversity is paramount, and many of Vermont's best known snowboarders are women. The governor also noted a secondary and tertiary preference for designs 11 and 7, respectively. On the phone with us today is John Zanin, with the Governor's Constituent Services Office. The U.S. Commission of Fine Arts met last Thursday, and they recommended design 11. Before moving onto the design descriptions, Mr. Zanin, would you like to say a few words to the committee? MR. ZANIN: Sure. Thanks, April. Thank you, Madam Chair, and the committee, for having me today. And it is a pleasure to represent Vermont and the governor in this process. From the start, the governor was very much forward on snowboarding as per se a more modern www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 56 innovation that has derived from the state and the culture here. Especially being, at least on the east coast, one of the destination for snow sports in the country. Snowboarding has become a pretty big cultural phenomenon here, as well as training many Olympians -as Vermont has had most Olympians per capita in the country -- with most of those primarily being snow sports entities. Including the first two snowboarding gold medalists, Vermont native Ross Powers, as well as Kelly Clark -- who trained and went to high school up here, as well. So snowboarding is very much in the fabric of the snow sports culture up here, with Jake Burton Carpenter helping pioneer the sport, in the technical side. And Burton, as a company, still headquartered in Burlington. And including RND facility here, still very much a part of the community and pushing the sport forward. And so -- and April said about the governor's preference -- when I went over the designs with him, the number 1 thing that stood out to him was the female rider in design 5, as a huge www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 57 emphasis, that was his number one thing, out of all of it, compared to the designs in general. Because emphasizing the presence of women as some of our most prolific Olympians coming from the state, and the push on that side. I think then, he appreciated the landscape representation more in some of the other designs, like 11 and 7. As well as part of the old school style in 5. I am more than happy to take -- answer any questions along -MS. LANNIN: Thank you, John. Well I will call on you after I go through the committee members, and you can add anything else that you might want to. So Joe Menna, or Ron Harrigal, do you have anything to add about these designs? MR. HARRIGAL: Defer to Joe. This is Ron. MR. MENNA: My -- as with the previous portfolio, we went through these very carefully, and we addressed any issues in both the aesthetic and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 58 coin-ability wise. So we are confident that everything is good for you guys. MS. LANNIN: Well, good. Thank you. All right. So April, back to you. MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. We will start with design 1. This design features an airborne modern snowboarder and two snowflakes floating above a mountain range. The double black diamond shape, the common designation of the most difficult ski resort runs, anchors the base of the design and references the integration of snowboarding into the greater ski culture of Vermont. Design 2 displays a snowboarder overlapping five snowboard shapes. These snowboards are adorned with a continuous design of snowflakes and rugged mountain tops. A pair of black diamonds anchors the design and references the integration of snowboarding into the greater ski culture and winter sports. Designs 3 and 4 feature a snowboarder, a mountain top, and a detailed snowflake interlinked to illustrate that Vermont's climate and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 59 terrain are vital to the innovations in snowboarding. The circle, square, and diamond, which are standardized rating symbols for ski trails, represent the integration of snowboarding into the greater ski culture. So this is design three, if we could go back. And four. Design 5 features a young female snowboarder in the air performing a trick called a, "melon grab," set against a mountainous winter skyline inspired by the landscape of Vermont. The aim of the design is to capture a sense of the energy and exuberance of snowboarding through movement implied by diagonal lines and curved shapes. This is the Vermont governor's preferred design. Design 7 and 8 portrays a snowboarder mid-flight grabbing their snowboard. The background features the terrain of the Green Mountains with snowcovered conifer trees. Design 7 is the third preferred design by the governor. And very similar, we also have, there, design 8. Designs 9 and 10 feature contemporary images of snowboarding with a focus on, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 60 "freeriding," when adventurous riders take challenging routes down ungroomed snow. A part of the culture of snowboarding involves taking unusual lines or paths down the mountain. As the sport grew, innovation in materials and manufacturing made boards lighter and stronger, allowing riders to try more challenging lines. And finally, design 11 represents the freeriding roots of snowboarding in Vermont. The snowboarder rides an early version of a directional board in the back county. Design 11 is the second preference of the Vermont governor, and the recommendation of the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts. Madam Chair, that concludes the candidates designs for Vermont. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, so much, April. Let me start with Dr. Dean Kotlowski. DR. KOTLOWSKI: Thank you, very much, Madame Chairperson. I have to say, the American Innovations Series -- I find this series to be enormously stimulating, challenging in the best sense of the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 61 work, and I really do appreciate the comments of both of the liaisons today, mentioning the culture of these states. And as I was thinking about this as a historian, what we are also looking at are -- in addition to innovation, are states identities -- how they see themselves in light of innovation. And certainly, there are other states that can make a claim on snowboarding, in terms of the origins of snowboarding and early innovations in snowboarding. We have Vermont making a very strong claim on that -- on snowboarding. And I am just going to work with the designs that we have today. And obviously -- and I find them enormously compelling. The one that I was drawn to immediately was number 11. And I just like the whole design. I think it is enormously clever to have Vermont on the snowboard. And this snowboarder looks definitely in command. You have a sense of the terrain and the environment and scenery of Vermont. So that really was number one for me. I think number 5 is just great. I -the diversity point that was made is tremendously www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 62 important. And I am going to give a lot of consideration and a lot of points to number 5. I also think that number 7 is very compelling. The one design that I wanted to point out that I think is an interesting design artistically, is number 2. I thought this was enormously creative in the way in which the artist used the snowboards as background and was able to integrate snowflakes and scenery. There seems to be a lot going on, there. But I like it a lot. And I am not sure that the other coins that have tried to use a snowflake motif were as successful in creating something that was as visually arresting and original as number two. So I hope that number two will get some consideration. But my strong preference right now is for number 11. Thank you, Madam Chair. MS. LANNIN: All right. Thank you, so much, Dean. Let us go to Dr. Peter van Alfen. DR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Madam www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 63 Chair. I have to agree with Dean, that I find number 2 quite compelling, as well, for many of the same reasons that Dean just iterated. However, I am very happy to support the governor's push for diversity. And I also find number 5 quite interesting, with the diagonals and the energy. So I am very happy to support number 5 as a preference. And give a shout out, as well, to number 11, which I find -- you know, quite interesting. And I do like the, "Vermont," on the bottom of the snowboard, as well. But I think I will go with number 5 as a preference. And thank you. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, very much. Tom? Tom Uram? MR. URAM: Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah. Once again, some nice designs, and so forth. And I respect the governor's office as -- regards to the -- it -- number 5 is a nice clean design. There is no question. And I also do like some of the items on number 11, as well. So, as Peter just said, I am leaning towards 5 and 11, as well. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 64 I am not as excited about the snowflakes on some of these, 'cause it is just not -does not do much for some of the design, as far as explaining anything that -- you know, it is just not as natural. But I think number 5 and number 11 are very -- you know, natural looking depictions of snowboarding. So my thoughts are going to be 5 and 11. Thank you, Madam Chair. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, very much, Tom. Robin? MS. SALMON: Thank you. I was also drawn toward number 2, initially, for the design elements. And that artist pulling in snowflakes, the scenery -- everything in there -- it is quite interesting. I realize that is not going to work well on a dollar coin, for the size of the coin. And my next favorite was number 5. And the ponytail, there -- the braid, is what really drew me to that -- aside from the diagonal lines. I am -of course, will always support diversity in art -- in any place. And I think it is most important www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 65 to send that message in this particular coin. And then, number 11 was my other favorite, for its clean line, for, "Vermont," on the snowboard. And it tells the story. So there is some wonderful designs, here. And I applaud all of the artists. They did a great job. Thank you. MS. LANNIN: Thanks for your comments, Robin. Sam Gill? MR. GILL: Thank you, Mary. I have spent a lot of time looking at number 5. I like the concept very much. But I am concerned that because of the way these snowboarders are going to be all bundled up and they are going to look mighty tiny on that dollar, I could not really find the compelling diversity element there that I can see, once it gets on the coin. My favorite is number 11, because it is just a super commercial for Vermont. And it reminds me of one of those old picture postcards that we probably have in boxes from our parents, back in the 50's, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 66 where the name of the place was displayed on the picture postcard. So I like that one very, very much. And in terms of action, I think number nine is very, very clever. And I like the symmetry of the coin, and that the snowboarder is centered in the middle, there. So my preference is number 11. Thank you, Mary. MS. LANNIN: Thanks so much, Sam. MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Madam Chair. Dennis? And I will echo the other committee members. Congratulations and kudos to the artists for this portfolio. A lot of good designs, here. A lot of energy, which is wonderful to see in a U.S. coin. My only regret is that I do not think any of these designs really explicitly speaks to the innovations in snowboarding. So I will comment purely on the designs. I like number 5. I like the down and up angles of the background. I think that strengthens the illusion of movement. And I do like the fact that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 67 diversity is represented in the female figure. Sam, I understand what you are saying about the small canvas on the golden dollar coin. But I think that if you look at the South Carolina, Septima Clark coin of 2020, there is a lot of detail that can be put into this small canvas. So I am happy to see that diversity there. And I think it will show up well on the coin. I appreciate Mr. Zanin's comments. They helped guide my analysis of these designs, even as we have been speaking and looking at them in this meeting. The aspects of snow sports being a cultural phenomenon in Vermont. I did like number 10 -- 9 and 10. 10 is the only one -- uses the word snowboarding. It got some -- you know, it will get some points from me for that reason. But I like number 5. Thank you, Madam Chair. MS. LANNIN: Thanks, so much, Dennis. Dr. Lawrence Brown? DR. BROWN: Thank you, Madam Chair. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 68 And I would like to share with the committee the reasons for my perspective here, particularly given the fact that I actually previously served as the board chair and member of the chair of the United States Anti-doping Association, so -- Agency, rather. I had an opportunity to meet many of these athletes on many occasions and admire their acumen and the rate in which they approach their skill and their sport. I -- the other reason I am focusing on number 5 is actually not only because of the comments by the governor and persons representing that good state -- is the fact that I want to underscore the culture change it can be just as innovative as anything physical -- as any individual. So I think we need to also consider that. I must confess that as a physician I often was trained with the pill, the needle, and the stethoscope, when I have come to appreciate a lot of things that can change behavior have a lot to do more with the fact of how a person responds to guidance that they receive. And culture is particularly one of those. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 69 So that number 5, I really appreciate the attempt -- the efforts about the diversity. I look forward to this. And I want to thank, also, Donald for helping correct me with respect to the fact the audience of this. So I am looking at it more, 'cause I am also a closeted collector. So from that standpoint, I want to recognize number 5. I think it would be fantastic from a collector's standpoint. And the words, "Vermont," stand out to me, which is really important given the fact that you want to be able to say that this coin is, indeed, from the good state of Vermont. Thank you, Madam Chair. MS. LANNIN: Thank you for your insights, Dr. Brown. Donald Scarinci? MR. SCARINCI: I am just going to abstain on this one, if you do not mind. MS. LANNIN: All right. Arthur Bernstein? MR. BERNSTEIN: Hi. I am a big www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 70 proponent of number 5 for all the reasons previously stated. I would also point out that on the Green Mountain coin where we see the mountain, the detail which shows the ski trails I think is an added bonus. I also was attracted to number 11. And I hear some support for that. I would like to point out as the scout master on this call that if we were to go with number 11, I would like to call attention that the boarder is not wearing a safety helmet. And if we were to go with that design, I think that I would like to suggest that we not be promoting an unsafe practice of snowboarding without wearing a helmet. Thank you. MS. LANNIN: Thanks, so much, Art. I see that Michael Moran has joined us. Mike, what are your comments? Michael, I know you are there. I saw you. MR. MORAN: There we go. Can you hear MS. LANNIN: There we go. Yes. I can me, now? hear you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 71 MR. MORAN: Okay. At the risk of repeating what has already been said, since I just walked in, here, I certainly have no problems with number 5, and I will give it some votes. My personal choices, when I first went through the portfolio, were number 1 and 2. I like the way they presented the mountain in the background within the outlines of the ski boards on number two. I found that -- but I see where everybody is coming from on 5. And Art, on the lack of a safety helmet on 11. I missed that one. So there you have it from me, on this one. I will be much better on the next go around. MS. LANNIN: Okay. So it is up to me. I, too, appreciate number 5. Yay for all the women in Vermont that are world-class snowboarders. I like the angles of it. I like seeing -- I think Art mentioned, this. The bonus is the ski trails that we see in the back. You know, I think that, that presents a very interesting tactile sensation. And so I am putting pretty much all my snowflakes on board with number 5. And with an www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 72 honorary mention to number 11. So thank you, very much. Now, do we have any other questions, or any other further discussion about these? MS. STAFFORD: MS. LANNIN: Madam Chair? April? Yes? MS. STAFFORD: I wondered if our liaison, John Zanin, wanted to make any comment about the use of helmets. I know, obviously, we would like to see them on the designs. I know that we did do a round of design revisions to ensure that helmets were depicted. I believe, though, it is my understanding that in this sport there are some instances where it not required. John, did you want to comment on that? MR. ZANIN: Yes. So I believe Russ may also have it, too. There was a previous design of number 5 without a helmet, of a women having a ponytail and a headband, which they would definitely represent the more retro style of 11 a little bit more. Helmets are not necessarily required in snow sports up here at any of the resorts, especially on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 73 the recreational side of things. And it was not a big deal for the governor for it to have -- he did not mind the rider not having a helmet on that end of things. That was -- I know, an emphasis that I brought up earlier on in the process, to provide him more option if that was a route he was concerned about. MS. STAFFORD: So, Madam Chair, you see, here, Russ is sharing his screen. MS. LANNIN: MS. STAFFORD: I see. This was a version of the design of the female snowboarder -- design 5 -with her ponytail mimicking that angle. And then, when we did the round adding the helmet, you got this, with the braid. Both of those, it is our understanding, would still be an option for the state of Vermont. And wanted to just make you all aware of it, because it does seem like many members are gravitating towards design 5. So that could be something that, perhaps, is discussed after scoring. MS. LANNIN: Yeah. Thanks for the clarification, April. I have to say as the daughter and granddaughter of doctors, I prefer to see people www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 74 behaving responsibly. And so I am great with the pigtails flying in the wind, and with the safety helmet. So -- and we also do not know what other state's laws are regarding snowboarding. And they may, very well, insist on helmets. So I think erring on the side of safety is always good. Does anybody else have any other -anything to discuss about this? DR. VAN ALFEN : Madam Chair, I have one thing to ask and to offer. On the issue about the helmet is really something that is really something that is important to me, also, as a physician. And I do not recall entirely about the Olympic caliber athletes, whether or not a helmet is required or not. And given the fact that this, very well, would have significance for those in the numismatic community and their loved ones about how this coin looks, I think it would be useful if indeed it is indeed required by Olympic caliber athletes. And I would certainly recommend keeping the helmet. MS. LANNIN: So I would like to ask our liaison if he is in agreement with that? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 75 MR. ZANIN: Yes. Be happy -- especially if you going route 5. The helmet is non-bearing one way or the other. That is why I brought it up initially in the design process. MS. LANNIN: Okay. So because of the mention from the great state of Vermont, we have a helmeted snowboarder, which I think is great. So if there are not any more questions about the designs that we have seen for Vermont, and if the Mint does not have anything else to add, I think that -- it is 11:31. Can we take 10 minutes and vote, and return at 11:40? (Off the record) MS. LANNIN: -- to you. I would like to recognize Jennifer Warren, who has done a little bit of on the fly research for us about the requirements of snowboarders. MS. WARREN: Yes, Chairperson. It appears that certain states -- certain resorts in certain countries do require helmets. As well as, if you do look at the U.S. Ski and Snowboard Organization, who oversees competition, it does have www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 76 in their competition rules the requirement of a bib and a helmet. So it does seem like it does vary some in Vermont. It may be different. But in other states in other ski resorts, it is required. MS. LANNIN: All right. Thanks for looking that up, Jennifer. All right, Greg, we are ready for the results of the tally. MR. WEINMAN: Okay. For Vermont, design number 1 received 2 points. Design number 2 received 5. Design number 3 received 3. Design number 4 received 2. Design number 5 received 29, making it the high vote getter. Number 7 received 3. Number 8 received 3. Number 9 received 4. Number 10 received 4. And number 11 received 18. Once again, the high score is design number 5 with 29. MR. HARRIGAL: And that was out of 30, correct? MS. LANNIN: MR. WEINMAN: This is out of 33. Out of 33. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 77 Great. Thank you, so much. MS. LANNIN: Is -- does anybody on the committee have any further discussion that they want to have about this coin? Anybody from the Mint have any further comments about the coin? All right. Thank -- does anybody have any motions to make? All quiet. All right. We are going to move on. We are going to now score the reverse designs for the Kentucky 2022 American Innovation coin. DR. VAN ALFEN: MS. LANNIN: Not score them, yet. I am sorry. DR. VAN ALFEN: MS. LANNIN: -- score them. We are going to look at them. And April is going to lead us through it. MS. STAFFORD: Yes. Thank you. Kentucky submitted two design concepts. Bluegrass music, as well as the Frontier Nursing Service. We will start with bluegrass. Kentucky is synonymous with bluegrass music, a Kentucky musical innovation that takes its name directly from the Commonwealth. Bill Monroe, a native of Kentucky is heralded as the father of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 78 bluegrass music. Beginning in the late 1930's and early 1940's, Bill Monroe and his band began to transition from the string band traditions of Appalachia to modern bluegrass. Bluegrass historians point to Monroe's first Columbia sessions in 1946 as the advent of bluegrass music as we know it today; including breakneck tempos, sophisticated vocal harmony arrangements, and instrumental proficiency demonstrated in solos or, "breaks," on the mandolin, banjo, and fiddle. Required inscriptions are, "United States of America," and, "Kentucky." The governor of the Commonwealth of Kentucky has expressed a strong preference for bluegrass music as the concept to represent Kentucky. Should the committee wish to recommend a design featuring the Frontier Nursing Service -- which we will discuss next -- the design should focus on the work of the Frontier Nursing Service as opposed to Mary Breckinridge, who is seen to have originated the Frontier Nursing Service. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 79 On the phone with us today is Coulter Minix, director of the D.C. Office of the Governor of the Commonwealth of Kentucky. I will note, before throwing to Mr. Minix, that the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts met last Thursday and made a dual recommendation of designs 12 and 20, both from the bluegrass music design theme. Mr. Minix, would you like to say a few words to the committee? MR. MINIX: Thank you, April. And good morning, everyone. My name is Colter Minix, and I serve as director of the Washington D.C. Office for Kentucky's governor, Andy Beshear. It is an honor to be included in today's meeting, and to have the opportunity to address the committee briefly about the Commonwealth's preferred one dollar state innovation coin design concept, bluegrass music. Music has always played a central role in Kentucky's history and culture. And scores of Kentuckians have contributed immeasurably to many genres. The song titled, "Kentucky Home," is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 80 recognized around the world. And two -- sister, in 1893 penned one of the most recognizable songs in the English language, "Happy Birthday to You." But one very important and innovative genre of music, bluegrass, derives its name directly from the Commonwealth. Bill Monroe, a native of Rosine, Kentucky, is heralded as the founder of bluegrass music. I will not go into too many of the details, because April covered them so capably. But by the mid-1840's Monroe had experimented conservatively with new methods of presenting string band music and began to evolve a highly distinctive mandolin style while playing with his brothers, Birch and Charlie, and later forming his own group, The Bluegrass Boys. A few notes I would like to make at the outset, as Ms. Stafford noted, the governor's preference -- strong preference is for blue grass music. And among the candidate designs, the governor prefers Kentucky 3A. Other comments I would like to share from our panel of historical and technical experts that are relevant to coins recommended by the CFA, Kentucky seven needs to have a fifth string on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 81 the banjo, and to remove the treble clef, if that is the direction that folks end up going. Kentucky 12, there was an issue with the typeface, there. On others, there was a question about wording. And there was an idea that the wording could -- where it fits, the wording could be, "Home of the bluegrass." Or --I am sorry. There were issues about the, "Home of the bluegrass." And where it fits, we thought it could be substituted by, quote, "The bluegrass state." And then, finally, the human element is so vital to bluegrass music, and our panel of experts really took to designs that were in a prior portfolio, Kentucky 14, 15 and 16. But I think they may have been removed for reasons and issues related to coin-ability. So we are thrilled to be here with you today, and to celebrate this important Kentucky innovation. On the line with me, I have a team of experts. We are available to answer any questions you all have. And thank you, very much. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Coulton. All right. If you would proceed, April. MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. All right. We www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 82 will start with design number 1. This design is meant to symbolize the far reach of Kentucky's bluegrass music throughout the country, over radio, and the recording industry. The fonts were inspired by 45 RPM records and lettering found on products and signs throughout the region. The record image and label are paired with silhouettes of the fiddle's timeless f-shaped sound hole. Design 2 uses the banjo as the central image to emphasize the importance of the instrument in bluegrass music. Designs 3 and 3A feature the banjo, an important bluegrass instrument, tilted to one side, alluding to the rhythm and movement of the music. And I will note that I believe I heard Mr. Minix say that design 3A is the Kentucky governor's preference. Design 4 celebrates three instruments of bluegrass music by featuring the heads of the banjo, fiddle, and upright base. The instruments are surrounded by the official Kentucky flower, the Goldenrod. The circle behind the banjo www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 83 head acts as a mirrored reflective space and alludes to the moon in Bill Monroe and the Bluegrass Boys' song, "Blue Moon of Kentucky." Design 5 features a stylized bluegrass musician in a linocut illustration, an artistic style popularized in the United States at the same time as bluegrass music. Text is arranged in a circular fashion to create the illusion of a music record. Design 6 features a stylized bluegrass banjo peg-head, with the inscription, "Kentucky," filling in for the strings. Design 7 and 7A present a cursive, "Bluegrass Music," in a script common to the genre. Design 7, seen here, includes a five string banjo, while 7A depicts musical notes on a staff. Design 8 presents a five-string banjo with a pastoral scene in the distance. The farm, also noting Kentucky's strong tradition of raising horses. Designs nine, 10, and 11 feature different images of a five string banjo symbolizing www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 84 the bluegrass tradition. Designs 10 and 11, both present the Commonwealth topographically, underscoring Kentucky's strong connection with bluegrass music. Designs 12 and 12A feature a five string banjo drum head with the inscription, "Home of bluegrass music." Design 12, seen here, is one of two designs recommended by the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts. Design 13 shows a mandolin as the central device. Below it is an arching music scale and the word, "Bluegrass." Above the mandolin, filigree inspired by the Kentucky Bluegrass plant evokes the simple and humble origins of the genre. Designs 17 and 18 presents detailed representations of the five instruments commonly used in bluegrass music: the bass, fiddle, banjo, mandolin, and acoustic guitar. This is design 17, and 18. Design 19 presents an image of a bluegrass music record playing on a phonograph, recognizing the importance of the recording industry in the popularity of the genre. Musical notes are superimposed on the grooves of the record. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 85 Design 20 features a classic image of a four-string banjo drum head. A treble clef is seen behind the banjo strings. This is one of two recommended designs by the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts. And as our liaison noted, the CFA recommended adding a fifth string, which would represent the type of bajo most often used in bluegrass music, as well as potentially removing the treble clef for clarify. And that concludes the bluegrass music options. I will move onto the Frontier Nursing Service, the second design concept for Kentucky. In 1925, to provide rural healthcare and to fight high infant and maternal mortality rates in Appalachia, Mary Breckinridge founded the Frontier Nursing Service in Leslie County, Kentucky. Operating primarily in Eastern Kentucky, the Frontier Nursing Service nurse-midwives delivered home healthcare covering over 700 square miles on horseback. The Frontier Nursing Service -- or FNS -- system lowered the maternal mortality rate in Leslie County, Kentucky from the highest in the country to well below the national average and provided the first extensive use www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 86 of nurse-midwives in the United States. Designs 21 and 22 show a nurse-midwife on horseback, her mount trotting quickly through a river or stream. She wears the classic riding uniform of the FNS, and a saddlebag hangs below her. Frequently, nurses would have to cross streams and rivers, sometimes deep enough to require swimming. This design symbolizes and honors the courage, grit, and determination of the FNS. Additional inscriptions are, "Frontier Nursing Service," and, "Mary Breckinridge." Design 22 shows that at time the nurses needed to bring patients from their homes to an outpost, as with these two children. Design 23 depicts a nurse-midwife on horseback taking leave of a young mother and her baby after a postnatal visit in the Appalachian Highlands. Design 24 features an FNS nurse-midwife on horseback superimposed over the stylized shape of Kentucky and encircled by a stethoscope. And design 25 features an FNS nurse-midwife holding the hand of a frontier mother while the mother holds her newborn. The rugged www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 87 landscape of Eastern Kentucky forms the background. Madam Chair, that concludes the candidate designs. Madam Chair, I believe you are muted. MS. LANNIN: Due to the grinding that is going on outside the apartment. All right. I would like to turn to Ron Harrigal and Joe Menna to see what they would like to add to this design portfolio. MR. HARRIGAL: Again, I will defer to Joe. This is Ron. MS. LANNIN: MR. MENNA: Okay. Ron, thank you. Joe? Thanks, Ron. Yeah. This -- there is definitely some -- just like the proceeding portfolios -- there are definitely some challenges. But I feel confident that we can address them all sculpturally. So whichever one the committee winds up recommending, will look really good. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, so much, Joe. All right. Does anybody in the committee need to ask any questions before we begin? Hearing none, I would like to start with Peter Van Alfen. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 88 DR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Madam Chair. You know, as a big fan of bluegrass music, I have to say I find a lot of this portfolio quite compelling, as well. And from a design perspective, really quite interesting. You know, one of the key features of bluegrass, of course, is the banjo, which is why I am rather attracted to these designs that feature the banjo drum head. And my preference, here, is number 12. Number 20 is quite nice, as well. But I do like number 12, just because I think it does capture a bit more of the instrument. And I also like the design of the script on the lower half. So I think -- you know, while this is a rather large compelling portfolio, and those designs that feature instruments, I do quite like, I think I will go with number 12. So thank you. MS. LANNIN: Thanks, Peter. Dr. Dean Kotlowski? DR. KOTLOWSKI: Thank you, Madam Chair. Like Peter, I found this a very compelling www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 89 portfolio. I am really drawn to bluegrass music, in terms of the subject matter. The Frontier Nursing Service is extremely interesting and important. I did not find the artistic designs as compelling as some of the designs that I saw in bluegrass music. So just to jump in, I was drawn immediately to number 1. And many of you -- you are, sort of, laughing -- because I love the circularity. I love the record. Which reminds me a lot of a design that we did not accept for Pennsylvania, which dealt with the Pennsylvania Turnpike, where the entire coin was a tire of an automobile. And so, I also felt this is very similar to the very popular -- among us -Massachusetts innovation coin, which was a rotary phone. And what is interesting here is that, unlike that design -- but like the tire design for Pennsylvania -- the record covers the entire coin. And I also felt that the messaging got across in a very succinct way. It was almost a model of getting the message across in an economical way, in terms of the text. So I really loved number one. And I also really loved number 5. I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 90 thought 5 reached a high level of art. Both of these designs are very retro, that I am really emphasizing. I think the banjo is there. I think, "Birthplace of bluegrass music," is good text to include. And he is a little bit sad, there. But I think that, that is only thing I would say in terms of any sort of criticism. I do appreciate using the banjo, and part of the banjo. And using that circularity, as well. And I am going to give consideration to what Peter said about number 12. And also what was said about -- from the liaison from the state of Kentucky of the choices of the governor's office. I would -- going forward, I am not as enthusiastic about making changes that say, "The bluegrass state," because, again, I think Tom made excellent points about in an earlier conversation about the package that the collectors get and the explanation. So people would not confuse the plant with the music. But I think it might be a good idea to avoid repeating to state nicknames for these innovation coins, and letting the innovations speak www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 91 for itself. Thank you, very much, Madam Chair. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Dean. Thomas Uram? MR. URAM: Thank you, Madam Chair. And Dean, right. When I looked at these, also, I thought of the Pennsylvania Turnpike. And you know, we went with the vaccine and the Polio and so forth, which I think was the right move. But the design of that was great. And so, now, it is coming back where we have an opportunity to redefine it in a different way. Really, I would really -- I should really defer to Mike Moran, though, Madam Chair, because he is the Kentucky native. I only went to school there. And I want to let the committee know that I am proud that I went to the University of Kentucky, and I made it through in four terms -- Johnson Ford Carter. And -- at least, I got one, "Ha ha," out of it. Mike would appreciate that. But I think that Coulter's point here of the theme for the bluegrass as being recognized by the governor's office is important. And I, too, like www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 92 number one. And I do respect some of the banjo designs. But quite frankly, I like 19, with the musical notes, as well. I think that number one and number 19. But 19 if you even -- if the musical notes meant something, I do not know if that would add anything to the design or not. But I think we have a chance here to really get a unique design versus some of the others that we have on the series. And that would be great. So I am going to throw my votes towards number 1ne, number 19, as well as some for the number 3. Let's take a look -- which has the banjo and so forth. But all the circular motion here of the bajo, or the record, make a lot of sense to me. So -- but I do like just the -- I really do like 19. But I will be really interested to hear what Mike has to say, being the person in residence. Thank you, Madam Chair. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Tom. Art Bernstein? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 93 MR. BERNSTEIN: Thank you. I like everything that was already said about number 1. And that was my favorite, as well. I would add -- and I do not know if this is relevant -- but as I was thinking about the record shape -- the record design, it occurred to me that these coins are gold in colored, and so this record looks like a gold record, which added a little pizzaz in my mind. Number 19 also goes with the record theme. And I like that. And I think that might -- that number 19 might tie in with the comment that Mr. Minix mentioned with regard to adding a person to the bluegrass music theme. And this design includes a person playing the music. I was not a fan of most of the banjo drum head designs, because most of those designs, they are missing the neck of the instrument. And to me, it looked like it just, sort of, broke off, and I did not like that look. So I am a big fan of number 1, and number 19. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, so much, Art. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 94 Robin? MS. SALMON: Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes. I, too, was drawn to number 1. I was all about the tire and all about the rotary dial, in the past. Still like number 1. But I also like number 3. And I note that the governor's office preferred 3A. The difference there is the, sort of, offset of the letters in, "United States of America." I preferred three, because that offset is not there. And then, my other choice is 12 A. I liked the banjo drum head. I also like the lettering style. And I was concerned with number 12, that perhaps bluegrass music -- "Home of bluegrass music," might not be as visible in the final coin design. So I went with the larger lettering in 12A. Thank you. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Robin. Sam Gill? Sam, are you talking? MR. GILL: Yes. Here I am. MS. LANNIN: MR. GILL: Oh. Okay. There you go. Yes. Sorry. One point that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 95 comes to mind is that there are many designs here that I was just fine with. And I like many of them. The other point I was going to make is that the arguments from my colleagues before are all very compelling. And I see merit to everyone who has spoken so far. My initial look at this, number 7 was just clean, and the symmetry was pretty to me. Number 8 I liked bringing in the farm. 10 and 11, I liked bringing in the topography of the state. And one point I was going to mention about the Frontier Nursing, I thought that a couple of those designs -- and I am strictly on the bluegrass, by the way -- but I just wanted to draw attention to a couple of designs. 23 and 25, they are very touching, and the art is beautiful. And that is such a great story, which I was not familiar with, and I was happy to learn about it in the course of our work today. So anyway, I guess -- and I hear, Tom, on number 1 and number 19. I would be happy with any of those things. I guess I will just stop with number 7, only because it was clean, and the symmetry was www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 96 nice to me. MS. LANNIN: Thanks, so much, Sam. Dennis? MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Madam Chair. First of all, I will say that I am 100 percent on board with the governor's preference for bluegrass music as the theme. I think it is a great theme for Kentucky. So -- but I do want to use this opportunity to make a few remarks about the Mary Breckinridge and Frontier Nursing Service Designs. Number 21 and 22, these are -- to me, are examples of perfect balance of the inscriptions that I mentioned earlier. The state name is large. "United States of America," is smaller. And then, the specific innovation is spelled out. So you have got it all right there on the coin. My daughter -- my wonderful daughter turned five years old. And she has, kind of, grown up during my service, here, on the CCAC. And in my opinion, the more coins with girls and women doing wonderful things, the better. And I look forward to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 97 showing her all the coins that we have worked on that do just that. Mary Breckinridge was innovative in many ways. She was -- she had an academic career in public health in the early 1900's, which was unusual for a woman. She was born into a wealthy and influential family. Her grandfather was the vice president under Buchanan. And she could have lived a life of leisure. But she developed a new frontier in nurse-midwifery. So she is really an innovative person. And what she developed was innovative. So I am glad to see that as a potential theme. Regarding the bluegrass designs, I was initially drawn to 12 and 12A. But after hearing Mr. Minix's commentary and expressing the preference of the governor for 3A, I see that my comments -- the notes that I have made for myself really apply to 3A, as well. So I will just, kind of, go over those. The state name is prominent. The connection to the innovation is prominent. The design makes clever use of the round canvas. I like the way www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 98 the banjo head is used. It has got good typography, which is evocative of the Kentucky bluegrass style. So I think that three A is a very good candidate for this portfolio. Lots of good designs in this portfolio. But I am all on board with 3A. Thank you, Madam Chair. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Dennis. Dr. Lawrence Brown? DR. BROWN: I must confess, I was really thrilled with the opportunity to review this portfolio. I am not so, so -- admit, Tom, that I have heard more about you when you say terms. I wonder whether that is the same as years in -- so a term, often in Brooklyn, that is a half a year. So I am hoping you have been through just -- half years. MR. URAM: DR. BROWN: Thank you, Doctor. In any case -- and this time of the year -- Kentucky -- when I think about Kentucky, I think about the NCAA. So I wanted to appreciate -- with you guys. MR. URAM: Thanks for not bringing that up. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 99 DR. BROWN: But I thought I would be -- and perhaps -- and the only one to focus -- and again, I want to emphasize, I do support and appreciate the governor's, in fact, preference with respect to this -- and particularly, the focus on the bluegrass state -- bluegrass issue. And I want to remind many of us on this committee that some of the designs reflect things that are only -- things that we and our life of maturity can remember, like the 45, and like, in fact, the turntable. I think we need to be mindful that as we go forward, we need to be able to attract the diversity of, in fact, different generations, and make sure that it is relevant to them. But I do understand, given that this is innovative, you are looking at some things in history. I am glad that I am not the only one who is going to be focusing on, in fact, the midwife. Quite frankly, as someone who is -- the issue of, in fact, prenatal care and child care, particularly, is really something that is close to my heart. And I think that the design number 25 really strikes to me as having both the, in fact, the midwife, her mount, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 100 as well as the person receiving the follow up care, along with the child. I do not know how well they are going to be portrayed when it comes to minting. But I think that -- plus the mountains in the background, and the fact that it focuses on something that I heard the governor's representative say -- focusing more on Frontier Nursing Service. So as much as I do see the value in the comments that many of my predecessors shared with items -- with designs 1, five and 12, I would have to gravitate towards 25. And I would certainly give an audible motion -- mention to the others that were, in fact, articulated before me. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. Donald Scarinci, please? MR. SCARINCI: So I am so glad we are going with bluegrass. I was nervous -- I have to be honest -- you know, that people might want to go -- you know, with the other things. But the governor's office is pretty clear about bluegrass. And I appreciate that. I think that is a good pick. And listen, as far as Mary www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 101 Breckinridge, we have a chance -- I mean, we can put he on one of the state quarters. So we can put her on one of the new quarters in the quarters program. So I think, let's save her. We need to honor her -absolutely need to honor her. But let's honor her in the next program, right? And it makes more sense. And I will tell you my only hesitancy -- because these are all -- you know, these are all very fine designs. And I am giving a total merit to whichever artist -- whatever artist we used to -- who designed number 5. You know, that is the kind of creativity -- you know, that I am looking for. I love that. I just think it is creative. It is interesting. It is different. It is outside of the box. It is -- it would make one heck of a coin, right? But you know, I like these other designs as well. This is a tough competition. And the artists need to hear that. I mean, I am going to give a lot of merits, here, to the artists, because they need to hear this was a tough one. You know, there was a lot of good designs in here. And so I am coming down in this. I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 102 am -- you are going to hear me ultimately say that I am -- that where I am going is to support the governor's pick, which is number 3A. And I am -- it is a beautiful design. There is nothing wrong with that design. It has got the circle within a circle, which you know I am sucker for. It has got the banjo. It communicates. It does everything we need it to do. It does everything the governor wants it to do. I could totally understand why the governor picked this. It is a nice piece of art. This is a governor with a good eye. You know, no question about it. I do not know this governor. But I am going to change that. This is a governor who has got an eye. So you know, so for the liaison purposes -- you know, congratulations on -- you know, on the process that you went through on your end in your states. You know, you clearly had some difficult choices to make with these designs. And you know, you chose a very fine coin. And I am going to support the coin that the governor selected, and I am not going to impose myself. But -- here is the, but. I am www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 103 really -- I love number one. You know, and by the way, if you come to -- you know, if you were to walk down the hallway, we do a lot of entertainment law. It is one of the big things we do. I have about -- you know, seven or eight lawyers who just do that. And one of our clients used to be Leslie West, before he died. And if you remember Leslie West -- you know, a great musician -- one of the greatest musicians of my generation, for sure. And you know, Leslie used to talk about bluegrass. And I cannot really tell you what he used to say, 'cause it is borderline attorney/client privilege, so I do not want to do that. But you know, bluegrass was very important to the development of music. And in that room, not too far from here, you would also see one of the three known guitars that Jerry Garcia used hanging on our wall. Needless to say, it is very highly insured. So -- but I support number 5. I am hoping -- you know, and here is the Russian roulette of this -- you know, and here is the difficulty of this. You know, design one -- you know, I love design 1, right? Like, you know -- 'cause I liked the tire. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 104 You know, I like things like this. And this would be a very cool coin. And I am just, kind of, like, sitting here thinking, Okay. We can take care of Mary Breckinridge correctly. We can put her on a quarter, 'cause we got one of those coming up. Tennessee has yet to come before us. Tennessee should be a record. This should be Tennessee, right? And the problem is -- right -- Tennessee is not here yet. We do not know what Tennessee is going to do. We do not know if they are going to like this idea, right? We do not know what is going to happen in their state. So my concern is if we pass on this, and then, Tennessee comes back -- you know, with a skateboard or something silly -- you know, I mean, we lose the opportunity to have this, right? So all I can say is -- you know, if we can put in dibs -- if staff could just put in dibs -you know, when you deal with Tennessee -- like, it is about the music. It is about the music, right. You know, and maybe we can get something like this for Tennessee and have this design for -- a design just like this for Tennessee. And maybe you can go back to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 105 this very artist -- whoever did it -- so the artist does not get screwed, 'cause the artist who came up with it is very creative and should be rewarded. So maybe the artist could be protected when we do Tennessee. And you know, for the purpose of this design -- you know what I think? Whenever we go to the states and we ask the states to weigh in, we really need to give some deference to the states. These are elected officials. This is an elected governor. That means something to me, right? I am not elected. We are not elected. We are doing our job -- you know, to give the public the best designs we possibly can. That is our job. But our job is not to substitute ourselves for the judgement of those people who put themselves out to be elected by the public. You know, that is not something any -- that is not something I would ever do, right? I have very much respect for those people who do that. So when a governor suggests a design that moves me, and it is not as if I could say there is something wrong with this design. There is nothing www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 106 wrong with this design. So bottom line -MS. LANNIN: Thanks -- MR. SCARINCI: -- I support number 3. You are going to hear from me about Mary Breckinridge on the quarters. And I am going to hope and pray we can come up with a record for Tennessee. MS. LANNIN: Okay. Thank you, very much. Let us get the actual Kentucky resident here to weigh in. Michael? MR. MORAN: I do have a personal question for Coulter, if he is still there after this review? Coulter are you there? MR. MINIX: I am, Sir. MR. MORAN: Are you Connie's grandson? MR. MINIX: I am Connie's grandson. MR. MORAN: Well, yeah. Tell Connie I said, Hi. It is Mike Moran. And we did time together in Ashland. We have had several drinks together. MR. MINIX: Wonderful. Well, thank you MR. MORAN: Small world. MR. MINIX: -- taking the point -- for -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 107 personal. I will -MR. MORAN: In answer to your question, coming from a good republican -- he is a good governor. Let me talk just -MR. MINIX: Thank you. MR. MORAN: Let me talk just a sec about Mary Breckinridge. I talked to a little bit in the administrative section about her yesterday. A little bit about the family -- a little bit more, as well as the fact that this has stood the test of time. The family has -- they have been major progressive participants in Kentucky politics since before the civil war. Now, vice President Breckinridge was also secretary of war for the confederacy. But he came back from Lexington and basically put the hard feelings aside and participated in -- actively in the United States as an attorney here in the Lexington area. There was none of that Ku Klux Klan stuff or any of that nonsense there, at all. The other thing I want to tell you about the Frontier Nursing Service is that it has morphed over time into a nursing school. And they run www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 108 a nursing school here just in a small town outside of Lexington. But this played a major, major role in Eastern Kentucky. And I believe it was one of her cousins, who was also a leader in the suffragette movement in Kentucky. This was just a leading family, in general. They did good things for the state. Now then, let me get to the review. I am going to respect the preferences of the state, and not dwell on the review of the Frontier Nursing School designs, other than to say, I agree with Donald, we need to come back to that, because it is important. I am going to respect the governor's choice of t3A. I will give it points. But when I went through this for the very first time, I had two thoughts. One, the peg-head and the peg-board of a banjo is just almost too simple. It is a no-brainer. It is so much of a no-brainer it is almost trite to come up with those designs. But the person who came up with design number 1, outstanding. I think it is better than design number 19, in terms of a likeness of a record. Just one is great. And as far as I am concerned, being a good, true Kentuckian, we got here www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 109 first, and too bad for Tennessee. My votes are going for number 1. MS. LANNIN: MR. MORAN: All right, then. Definitely say hi to Connie for me, Coulter. MS. LANNIN: Okay. I am going to try to keep this -- Tom, did I call on you? Or did you have another comment? MR. URAM: MS. LANNIN: Yeah. I am done. Oh. Okay. Sorry. All right. So I am going to make this brief, because we are running a little bit behind time, here. My absolutely number 1 favorite is number 1. The design is fabulous. You take a look at that and you do not need to see anything, but you need to hear the tunes that are playing in your head. Whatever your favorite Kentucky bluegrass tune was, is what you are thinking about when you are looking at this. What the governor had for 3A, I understand. But this is the coin that I would pick up if it was put on the table. So number 1, all the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 110 way, for me. Okay. So are there any other questions before we go to the vote? All right. Hearing, none. Anybody from the Mint would like to say anything? And also -- sorry. I got an e-mail message from Joe Menna, who is right in every respect, that for the first time in 2020, vinyl records outsold any other form of music. So if there are those of us that remember our vinyl record collections -- you know, with fondness. So anyway, number 1 is -- my number 1 is number 1. All right, anything else from the Mint? Let us score, ladies and gentleman. And it is 12:23. How about 12:35? Is that -- Greg, did you have something? MR. WEINMAN: Mary -- well, let's -- we can aim that way. There -- this could take longer because of the number of designs. MS. LANNIN: MR. WEINMAN: Okay. So -So let's aim at -- let's -MS. LANNIN: You tell me. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 111 MR. WEINMAN: At least, 10 minutes. Maybe a little longer. I will let you know. MS. LANNIN: 12:40? How does that sound? MR. WEINMAN: MS. LANNIN: Sounds good. Donald -- MS. STAFFORD: Madam Chair? MR. SCARINCI: Mary, can I just say two things, first. I have to excuse myself because I have a -- I actually have a meeting. And number two, so I voted -- I just voted and sent it to Greg. But -- and number 2 -- and I think I will throw my vote onto the next one, as well. And just send it to Greg before I leave. And number 2, just as a comment to Mike Moran. If we were in person, I would just side bar this -- you know, in New Jersey you do not get away with not supporting your governor. MR. MORAN: Donald -- MS. LANNIN: All right. All right. MR. SCARINCI: MR. MORAN: So my hat is off to you. I know. You see him on the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 112 national scene. He is going passed this. He is a young guy. And he is good. MS. LANNIN: Okay. No politics, guys. We are going to vote. MR. MORAN: MS. LANNIN: Hey, this is a republican. We are going to vote, Mike. (off the record) MS. LANNIN: MR. WEINMAN: -- numbers. I knew this was going to take a little longer. Okay. Out of 33. Ready? MS. LANNIN: MR. WEINMAN: Yes. Design number has 26 votes, making it the top vote getter. MS. LANNIN: MR. WEINMAN: Yay. Design number 2 has two. 3 has 7. 3A has 19. 4 has 3. 5 has 11. 6, two votes. 7 has 6 votes. 7A has 2 votes. 8 has 6 votes. 9 has 2 votes. 10 has 4 votes. 11 has 2 votes. Has 8 votes. 12A has 6 votes. 13 has 3 votes. 17 has 4 votes. 18 has www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 113 3 votes. 19, 14 votes. 20 scores a 2. 21, 7. 22 has 7. 23 has 10. 24 has 6. And 25 has 12. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, very much, Greg. Okay. Is there any further discussion? Does anybody want to make any motions? MR. TUCKER: Madame Chair, this is Dennis. I just need a clarification from Greg on 12. How many points did that get? MR. WEINMAN: Design 12 had 8 points. MR. TUCKER: Thank you. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Greg. Okay. Any motions? Is there any further debate? Okay. If the discussion is concluded, I guess, we will move to the last portfolio. And I turn it over to April for the candidate designs for the Tennessee 2022 American one dollar innovation coin. MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. And for Tennessee, we had three design concepts. The governor's office identified preferred or notable designs for each of the three concepts, specifically www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 114 designs 2 and 7, respectively, are the preferred designs for the Nashville Number System and Sequoyah concepts. And for the Tennessee Valley Authority concept, the governor's office identified design 8 as notable. On the phone with us today is Don Johnson, director of constituent services and community relations. I will note, before we ask Mr. Johnson if he would like to address the committee, that the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts met Thursday and they made two design recommendations. Design 11 from the Tennessee Valley Authority concept, and design 17 from the Sequoyah Cherokee Syllabary concept. So before we go through the candidate designs, Mr. Johnson, would you like to say a few words to the committee? MR. JOHNSON: Thank you, so much, Madam Chair, and members. I am Don Johnson, the director of constituent services for Governor Bill Lee. I want to thank you for the opportunity to join you this -- it is still morning, here, -- afternoon, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 115 where some of you are -- and offer comments on behalf of the state of Tennessee. We do appreciate being included in this effort. And also, for the patience of the Mint staff over the past year. If any of the artists are on the call, all of these designs that were submitted are absolutely fantastic. And we appreciate how you used the -- your extraordinary talents to reflect our state. We convened a committee comprised of several members of the governor's staff with interest and expertise in history, as well as our distinguished state historian, Dr. Carroll Van West of Middle Tennessee State University. I should note, we were willing to submit Jack Daniels as our state's signature innovation but were advised there could be some trademark issues. But we do not have an overall preference of the design to share with you. But our Governor -- Governor Lee is specifically concerned with -- he is a farmer -- he is concerned with rural development. So if we had to lean any particular www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 116 direction, the TVA designs that depict rural electrifications, of course, would be a solid choice. I do want to follow up on -- I believe it was Mr. Scarinci and some of the other members in the Kentucky number 1 design, that was just very favorably considered. You know, if that did not work for Kentucky -- I cannot speak for anyone else, 'cause I have not had a chance to review it with them -- but I think we would very seriously consider that design. It is very distinctive. And of course, anything related to music would be a great choice for us, here, in Tennessee. For the Nashville numberings designs, which I believe were numbers 1 through 6, we do have some concern -- at least, some caution about referencing the city of Nashville specifically. Our welcome signs for the state used to say, "Welcome to the three states of Tennessee." We have three stars on our flag depicting the grand divisions of our state. Those are arranged in such a way to where no one star is above another. So folks in Memphis and Knoxville and Chattanooga are very proud of their individual www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 117 cities and may not necessarily want the word, "Nashville," to be on their coin. So we might want to put a little bit of caution on that. But the overall Nashville numbering concept, of course, we like. And if there is a way to depict that without referencing the city itself, that could be a good thing. And I think number 2 would be our preferred design, there. For the TVA designs, just as a point of personal privilege as a typography nut, I thank the designers for including the, sort of, art deco style typography on there. We all like that, a lot. We applaud the choice of Norris Dam in number 8 and number 9, probably preferring number 8 of those. That is the signature TVA dam, here, in Tennessee, of many. We also, really like the rural setting and the depiction of the power lines in number 11. That is just a very pleasing design to us. For the Cherokee Syllabary designs, we, kind of, like to take the paper from number 18 that is being held by Sequoyah, and put that with the portrait of number 17. We really liked the depiction of Sequoyah in number 17. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 118 So with that, I think that is all the comments that we have at this time. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, so much, Mr. Johnson. I am glad that you found that the art was so pleasing to you. So, again, I am going to ask Ron, or Joe, do you have anything that you want to add to the coin-ability of this? MR. HARRIGAL: This is Ron. Again, I will let Joe speak for the designs. MR. MENNA: Yeah. I mean, really great portfolio. And whatever you all decide is the best one, that is the one that we will -- however it all plays out, we will be able to make it, and hopefully you will all be happy with it. MS. LANNIN: Okay. Thank you. So April, I would like to toss it back to you -MS. STAFFORD: MS. LANNIN: Okay. -- and give us the designs. MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. We will start with the Nashville Number System. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 119 Born in Nashville, Tennessee in 1929, Neal Matthews Jr. was an American vocalist who achieved fame as part of The Jordanaires, one of country music's premier backup groups, most notably with Elvis Presley. In the late 1950's Matthews developed the Nashville Number System as a method of transcribing music by denoting the scale degree on which a chord is built. It was conceived as a simplified system for The Jordanaires to use in the studio and further developed by county musician, Charlie McCoy. Under the Nashville Number System, improvisation structures can be explained using numbers, and chord changes can be communicated mid-song by holding up the corresponding number of fingers. The system makes it easy for bandleaders, record producers, or lead vocalists to change the key of songs when recording in the studio or playing live, since the new key just has to be stated before the song is started. The rhythm section members can use their knowledge of harmony to perform the song in a new key. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 120 Required inscriptions are, "United States of America," and, "Tennessee." As noted by our liaison, the governor's office expressed a concern about featuring the word, "Nashville," on the coin as an inscription -- that it might be a display of biased for the capital city, to the exclusion of other Tennessee towns and cities, and prefer designs that do not have that concept -- or that name as an inscription. So we will start with design one. This design features a central figure playing the guitar and signing. This composition adds a swirling bar of musical notation, emphasizing the creation and notation of music the innovation represents. Design 2 features a large central acoustic guitar, flanked with the ring of musical bars and notes, as well as a short passage of Nashville numbering notation -- numbers and symbols. This design -- design 2 -- is the governor's office preferred design for the Nashville Number System concept. Design 3 features the central www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 121 guitar device with the inscription, "Nashville Numbering System," in an ornate font, flanked with decorative flourishes. Simple musical note icons to the left and numerical icons to the right represent the innovation of converting complex musical markings into simple numbers. Design 4 shows a common popular music chord pattern written on staff paper in three different keys with traditional letter notation. Design 5 illustrates the concept of the concept of the Nashville Number System, in which numbers are substituted for notes in chord progressions while musicians are improvising. This concept is depicted on a musical staff with numbers substituted for letters of keys. This is illustrated by the notes in the key of, "C," the most common key in country music. A fiddle is superimposed on the staff, representing one of the main instruments used in country music. And finally, to round out this design concept, design 6 depicts a resonator guitar, a fiddle, a banjo, a mandolin, and a guitar. These www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 122 instruments are commonly used in the creation of county and bluegrass music. Above the instrument is the inscription, "Nashville Numbering System." Moving onto the TVA and Rural Electrification Co-Ops. As late as the mid-1930's nine out of 10 rural homes were without electric service. The farmer milks cows by hand, using a kerosene lantern, and families relied on wood ranges and washboards for household chores. The lack of electricity in rural areas kept their economies entirely dependent on agriculture. Factories and businesses preferred to locate to cities where electric power was easily acquired. For many years, power companies ignored the rural areas of the nation. In 1933, the Tennessee Valley Authority, TVA, was created by Congress to address the Tennessee Valley's most important issues in energy and environmental development. The TVA was authorized to construct transmission lines to serve farms and small villages that were not otherwise supplied with electricity at reasonable rates. The agency built 16 hydroelectric dams in the Tennessee Valley between www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 123 1933 and 1944. Rural electrification was based on the belief that affordable electricity would improve the standard of living and the economic competitiveness of the family farm. Okay. Designs for this concepts. Here, you see design 7. This presents a stylized rendition of dams and an electric transmission tower, signifying the infrastructure created by the TVA to provide electricity to rural America. Design 8 features an axonometric cutaway view of TVA's hydroelectric Norris Dam. The governor's office noted the strength of this design for its depiction of the Norris Dam, a signature project of the TVA. Designs 9 and 10 illustrate aerial and eye-level perspectives of the TVA's hydroelectric Norris Dam. Design 11 depicts a Tennessee farm with newly installed power lines lining the road. This is the Commission of Fine Arts recommended design for the TVA design concept. And I believe you heard our liaison note that the governor really liked this www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 124 particular design -- design 11 -- as well. Okay. Designs 12 and 13 depict a diagram of an open electrical circuit framing a rustic landscape of Tennessee. The design symbolizes the TVA's electrification of the state's small villages and farms during the depression. Design 14 features a lightbulb standing in for an ear of corn, a sign of the electrification of rural ears. A Tennessee farm is in the background, interspersed by rays of light from the bulb. And finally, design 15 displays a common activity of agrarian life in rural America improved by the electrification effort of the TVA. Moving on to Sequoyah, the writing system for Cherokee. Sequoyah was born circa 1770 in the Cherokee town of Tuskegee in what is now Eastern Tennessee. In 1821, after 12 years of work, Sequoyah introduced a written language to the Cherokee language using symbols for each syllable. His achievement is one of only a handful examples in world history regarding the development of an original writing system. News spread quickly, an in 1825 the Cherokee www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 125 Nation officially adopted and published the Syllabary. Within months, thousands of Cherokee became literate. The Mint worked with representative from the Cherokee Nation in reviewing these candidate designs to ensure the Syllabary and the innovation is represented accurately and appropriately. So, here, you see design 16. This design uses the seven-pointed start, an emblem of the Cherokee Nation, to direct the eye from the Cherokee Syllabary rendition of, "United States of America," and, "Tennessee," at the top down to the English translation seen at the bottom. Design 17 shows Sequoyah holding pages of his new Syllabary. Before the invention of the Syllabary, the Cherokee did not have a written language, nor was written English widespread in the Cherokee community. The additional inscription, "Sequoyah," is included. The governor's office expressed a preference for this design. But would like the inscription, "Cherokee Syllabary," included. The Cherokee Nation also expressed admiration for this design, with a particular compliment to the syllabary www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 126 being in it's original order. They suggest that, Tennessee and Sequoyah's names be written in Cherokee on the coin. I will note that the Commission of Fine Arts recommended this design for representing the Sequoyah and Cherokee Syllabary design concept. We also have design 18, which displays a classic image of Sequoyah and his Cherokee Syllabary as the central device with the inscription, "Sequoyah," and, "1821," the year the Syllabary was presented. And finally, design 19 is an homage to a large silver medal presented to Sequoyah by the Central Council of the Eastern Cherokee to commemorate his creation of the Syllabary. The original image showing two crossed long-stemmed pipes is revised in this design with a simple long-stemmed pipe crossed instead with a feather quill. The quill's nib rests on the final stroke of Sequoyah's signature, signed using his own Syllabary. The design is circumscribed by the seven-pointed star of the Cherokee Nation and the inscriptions, "Sequoyah creates the Cherokee Syllabary," and, "1825," the year the Cherokee Nation www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 127 officially adopted the Syllabary. Madam Chair, that concludes the candidate designs. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, so much. I do not see the seven pointed star on number 19. Am I missing something? Oh. Down there. Down below. Okay. Thank you, very much. All right. I would like to ask everybody to keep their comments to five minutes or less. I realize that we have three completely different design portfolios to look at. But we are running a little long. So I would recommend, if you take me at my word, to just talk about the designs in each portfolio of the three choices that you like best. Dennis, I would like to start with you. MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Madam Chair. I will focus on the Tennessee Valley Authority, because I think that is the theme that I prefer -- I think it is a good theme around the power of good government to help American's rise to their potential. I like design seven. The descriptive www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 128 name of the innovation is given prominence. It is right up -- it is right there at the top, very bold, "Electricity for all." And I like the typographic treatment with the art deco lettering. So for me, number 7 is going to get a lot of attention and votes. Tennessee 11 -- design 11, I think this is a beautiful illustration. It is nice symbolism. I would switch the information hierarchy of the two top inscriptions, though, if we go with this one. I would make, "Tennessee Valley Authority," more prominent than, "United States of America." And that concludes my comments. Thank you, Madame Chair. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, so much, Dennis. Sam Gill? MR. GILL: Thank you, Madam Chair. I am going to echo Dennis' sentiments here and focus on the Tennessee Valley Authority. I grew up on a farm, and there were many, many stories that I was told, when our farm was actually electrified in the 30's -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 129 or 20's. And I can really appreciate what the Tennessee Valley Authority did. Plus, it came about in the middle of -- in the beginning of the depression, and it employed a lot of people, and it changed the lives of hundreds of thousands of people. So it is worthy to note it. My choice is to see here -- the design choices, I love 11. I like number 13, very much. But both of them show a rural picture. And from an artist point of view, number 15 -- I would not necessarily choose it, but I just love the concept of it. A lightbulb there in the barn. So those are my choices. And I am going to have to settle on a number 1 -- it may be 13 or 11. But those are my choices. Thank you. MS. LANNIN: Thanks, so much, Sam. Robin? MS. SALMON: Thank you, Madam Chair. I also went with the Tennessee Valley Authority. Number 8 drew my eye immediately. That sort of birds-eye view of the Norris Dam is very compelling. And the design is just beautiful, I think. It would look well on a coin. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 130 I was also drawn to number 14. With the lightbulb and the cornstalk, it -- aside from making me smile, it did grab my attention almost immediately when I looked through the pages. And that is part of what we want to have happen with these coins. Does it tell the story the best? I am not sure. But it is a beautiful and interesting visual design. There were aspects of the other two areas that I liked very much. I won't talk about those. But each one of these is certainly worthy of a coin. And my congratulations to the artists who took some very abstract, kind of, designs and made them important and beautiful. Thank you. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Robin. I do not mean to imply we are not allowed to talk about any of the other areas. But just not at length. Technically, we were supposed to be finished with this meeting a minute ago. So I am just trying to keep everything running on time. If you would like to add something, Robin, go right ahead -- about the other two. MS. SALMON: All right. Well, number two for the numbering system, I felt was the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 131 strongest. And it was because it did not have the lettering, "Nashville Numbering System." Number 16 for the Cherokee Syllabary, that design really pulled me in. And then, as I read the description and realized that the lettering across the top is the Syllabary wording for, "United States of America," and, "Tennessee," I thought that was wonderful. And I like that design, very much, as well. Thank you. MS. LANNIN: Thanks, so much, Robin. Dr. Dean Kotlowski. DR. KOTLOWSKI: Thank you, Madam Chair. I am going to focus my attention on the Tennessee Valley Authority. I think we will have opportunities to potentially honor Sequoyah, since he was associated -- and the Cherokees were associated with other states outside of Tennessee. The Tennessee Valley is enormously important for the reasons that my colleagues have said earlier. The only thing that I will add -- because I know we are running out of time -- is the Tennessee Valley Authority succeeded so well in what it tried to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 132 do, that it became part of U.S. film propaganda in World War II. Now, the film propaganda you probably remember -- or you are familiar with, is, Why We Fight, by the War Department. The Office of War Information did a series called, The American Scene, for distribution overseas. And most of these films did not talk about the war. They talked about America. And their message was, America and American democracy works. I will not go into all of this, but one of the most famous films in this series -- and it is not a widely known series today -- was called, The Valley of the Tennessee. And the message was, democracies solve their problems. And that was the messaging. And you get that from a lot of the designs. I loved number 7, because it actually does recall some of the promotional -- or propaganda posters from the period for the TVA. I think dams just naturally work well on coins. Maybe, they are a little bit like sail boats in that sense. And Lewis Mumford referred to them as, democratic pyramids. So eight, which is the governor's choice, is fine by me. Norris Dam is important. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 133 9 and 10 are okay. I think 11, if we get into the impact of the Tennessee Valley Authority -- Commission of Fine Arts choice -- I think that, that is very, very pleasant. I, even in my own way, like number 12 and number 13. Thank you, very much, Madam Chair. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, so much. Mike Moran? MR. MORAN: I know I normally say go with the art, but I really -- I think that the concept of the Nashville Numbering System is very difficult to get on the back of a coin. And I -- as I said yesterday, we have already done Sequoyah on the Native American Dollar Coin Series. He has been there. So I am centered on the TVA. I will also bring up -- we have talked about benefits of it -- I will bring up the fact that Alcoa put a massive work in south of Knoxville -- an aluminum plant during World War II. And the TVA powered Oak Ridge. So there are a lot of reasons for doing it. As far as the individual designs are concerned, number 7 has potential. But you have www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 134 got it in -- "TVA," in there along with "Tennessee Valley Authority." I do not think we need both. One of the other. The dam -- the Norris Dam looks good. The other two do not do anything for me. The pastoral scene really does not convey the TVA. I do like the concept in 12 and 13 of the electrical circuit surrounding the farm. I think that is a unique way to go about projecting the benefit of the TVA. That is it, Mary. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, so much. Dr. Brown? DR. BROWN: Yes. I -- again, is a phenomenal, in fact, opportunity to consider these designs. And I also, quite frankly, did appreciate the various themes. And I can understand why the good state of Tennessee would have chosen these things. So for me, Madam Chair, for a theme of the one pertaining to the numbering system, I like design number two. And for the theme pertaining to the TVA, my preference would be either design number 7, or design number 11. I really appreciate the simplicity of those. And with respect to our Native www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 135 American friends and colleagues -- and I -- quite frankly, I do not think, from my perspective, that we can get this too often -- but I would lean towards design 17 or 18. Thank you. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, so much. Dr. Peter Van Alfen? DR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Madame Chair. In terms of the Nashville Numbering System, I think even if we eliminate, "Nashville," it is still going to be implied. So I am steered away from that a bit, even though I do like number two as a design. In terms of Sequoyah's innovation, I do think that, that needs to be recognized. But as Mike has pointed out, he has already been featured on a coin. For these reasons, I have steered towards the TVA group, in part, too, because I think that the strongest designs are found among that group of designs. Like Dean and Dennis, I like number 7, because it does evoke contemporary 1930's design and posters. And I am also drawn to number 8, simply www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 136 because this axonometric view really is in many ways unique and just draws me in. So my preference is for number 7 and number 8. Although, for Sequoyah, I do like number 16 and 17, as well. Thank you. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, so much, Peter. Art Bernstein? MR. BERNSTEIN: I, too, gravitated towards the Tennessee Valley Authority theme. And I thought the powerfulness -- if that is a word -- of the dams was attractive. I steered away form designs number 8, 9 and 10 -- specifically featured the Norris Dam. I am not a historian, but there was some controversy involving the Norris Dam. There was a -directly towards them -- which has a more generic dam. And I like the powerfulness of the water crashing over the -- the electric lightning bolts. To me, it was just a very powerful design -MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Art. You have an unstable connection. But we will take in your votes. Tom Uram? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 137 MR. URAM: Thank you, Madam Chair. Great. I -- okay. I, too -- I like the numbering system, but I do not think it going to work taking, "Nashville," out, even though it would be implied. I think that was brought up. And the Sequoyah is brought up by some others. I agree. We have another opportunity to use that. So I default to the Tennessee Valley Authority. And I say that in a positive way. I, too, like the number 7 with the, kind of, retro -- there. But I am probably going to go with number 8 and number 11. And it is two totally different -- you actually have -- if you are looking at number 8 -- actually, that is the innovation. Number 11 is the end result. In the last series that we looked in Kentucky, we went with the end result, being the record, and not so much the players. So in this case, though, I think I am going to go with the end -- in number 8. And -- innovation itself versus the end result. But once again, the description would tell -- that -- have -- I think that 8 is more powerful in -- way it is positioned. And the look is something that we have not had. And so for the fact www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 138 that, that is the innovation, I am going to go that way, versus the end result, this time. So thank you, Madam Chair. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, so much. So do we have any additional discussion from our group? Some of whom were breaking up with unstable connection, unfortunately. All right. Hearing no comments, I will let the committee score the reverse designs and send them to Greg who is going to tally the scores. It is 1:12 right now. If we can come back at 1:25 that would be good. MR. WEINMAN: Okay. We will see -- again, this could take me longer to score. So I will let you know where we are at that moment. MS. LANNIN: Okay. I have every bit of faith in you, Greg. (Off the record) MS. LANNIN: In the interest of helping me do the minutes for these minutes, could you send me the -MR. WEINMAN: Yep. Yep. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 139 MS. LANNIN: -- sets of scores. Thank you, so much. MR. WEINMAN: Will do. We will send you the whole -- I will send you the entire summary. MS. LANNIN: Oh. That would be wonderful. Okay. Ladies and Gentleman, we are back for our final. MR. WEINMAN: Yep. Out of 33 points. Ready. Design 1, 2 points. Design 2, 7 points. Design 3, 3 points. Design 4, 4 points. Design 5, 3 points. Design 6, 2 points. Design 7, 23 points. That is the high score getter. MS. LANNIN: MR. WEINMAN: Oh. Good. Design 8, 17 points. Design 9, 4 points. Design 10, 5 points. Design 11, 12 points. Design 12, 5 points. Design 13, 6 points. Design 14, 6 points. Design 15, 2 points. Design 16, 5 points. Design 17, 8 points. Design 18, 5 points. And design 19, 4 points. Once again, design 7 with 23 points www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 140 is the high vote. MS. LANNIN: Great. Thank you, so much. So do we have any further discussion about the Tennessee Valley Authority that got the most points? MR. MORAN: Mary? Am I the only one that is troubled by seeing the, "TVA," versus the "Tennessee Valley Authority," inscriptions on that coin? MS. LANNIN: MR. MORAN: Give me a number? 7. I think you are. MS. LANNIN: MR. MORAN: Okay. So be it. MS. LANNIN: Okay. No. I do not mind it, at all. I think it is -- I think it makes it look really retro, in my opinion. MR. MORAN: Well, I like the, "TVA," I just did not see the reason for, "Tennessee Valley Authority," above it. MS. LANNIN: No. We are just going to reinforce it. How does that sound? MR. MORAN: Well, I grew up in their area, so TVA meant everything. Whatever. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 141 MS. LANNIN: Absolutely. Thank you. Anybody have any other comments? DR. BROWN: Mary, very quickly -- for someone from Brooklyn, the, "TVA," really is helpful. And the, "Tennessee Valley Authority." MS. LANNIN: Well, thank you, Dr. Brown. Is -- when I was going to school -- I mean, that was really reinforced as one of the miracles of America at that time. So that was always going to be my favorite one. Any other comments? So I -- do we have any motions on anything? DR. KOTLOWSKI: MS. LANNIN: Motion to adjourn. Okay. Let's see. I think that Dean got a little ahead of me. So I am going to say that this concludes our business for today, and that I appreciate all of you attending. Our next meeting -- please mark your calendars -- is April 20, 2021. If there is no further business to come before this committee, I will attend Dean's motion to adjourn. May I have a second? DR. VAN ALFEN: This is Peter van www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 142 Alfen, I second. MS. SALMON: This is Robin. Second. MS. LANNIN: You -- okay. A joint -- Peter and Robin. All in favor of adjourning, say, "Aye." MR. URAM: MS. SALMON: Aye. Aye. DR. VAN ALFEN: Aye. MR. TUCKER: Aye. MS. LANNIN: Those opposed, "Nay." The Ayes have it. And I will see you in April. Thank you so very much. (Whereupon, the meeting concluded at 1:26 p.m.) www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 143 CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC I, NATALIE SCHMITTING, the officer before whom the foregoing proceedings were taken, do hereby certify that any witness(es) in the foregoing proceedings, prior to testifying, were duly sworn; that the proceedings were recorded by me and thereafter reduced to typewriting by a qualified transcriptionist; that said digital audio recording of said proceedings are a true and accurate record to the best of my knowledge, skills, and ability; that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties to the action in which this was taken; and, further, that I am not a relative or employee of any counsel or attorney employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. NATLATIE SCHMITTING Notary Public in and for Washington, D.C. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Public Meeting March 24, 2021 144 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER I, CAITLIN BALLARD, do hereby certify that this transcript was prepared from the digital audio recording of the foregoing proceeding, that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings to the best of my knowledge, skills, and ability; that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties to the action in which this was taken; and, further, that I am not a relative or employee of any counsel or attorney employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. CAITLIN BALLARD www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376