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CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 1 1 2 CITIZENS COINAGE ADVISORY MEETING * * 3 * * * Day 2 4 Wednesday, March 1, 2023 5 9:00 a.m. - 12:45 p.m. 6 * * 7 8 9 * * * Held at: HQ Washington DC [8th Floor] * * * * * 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 2 1 IN ATTENDANCE: 2 CITIZENS COINAGE ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEMBERS: 3 LAWRENCE S. BROWN, MD, MPH, FACP, DFASAM, 4 Representative of General Public, Chair 5 ARTHUR BERNSTEIN Representative of General Public 6 HARCOURT FULLER, Ph.D. 7 Recommended by Speaker of the House 8 SAMUEL H. GILL Representative of General Public 9 DEAN J. KOTLOWSKI, Ph.D. 10 Specifically Qualified in American History 11 JOHN SAUNDERS House Minority Leader Recommendation 12 MIKE MORAN (Remote) 13 Senate Majority Leader Recommendation 14 ROBIN R. SALMON (Remote) Specially Qualified Sculpture/Medallic Arts 15 DENNIS TUCKER 16 Specially Qualified in Numismatics 17 PETER VAN ALFEN, Ph.D. Specially Qualified in Numismatics 18 19 U.S. MINT STAFF: 20 JENNIFER WARREN, Liaison to the CCAC Director of Legislative and 21 Intergovernmental Affairs www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 3 1 IN ATTENDANCE (cont'd.): 2 APRIL STAFFORD Chief, Office of Design Management 3 MEGAN SULLIVAN 4 Senior Design Specialist 5 ROGER VASQUEZ (Remote) Senior Design Manager 6 PAM BORER 7 Design Manager 8 RUSSELL EVANS Design Manager 9 BONEZA HANCHOCK 10 Design Manager 11 JOSEPH MENNA Chief Engraver 12 MICHAEL COSTELLO 13 Manager of Design and Engraving 14 BRENDAN TATE Senior Government Affairs Specialist 15 Office of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs 16 GREG WEINMAN, ESQ. 17 Senior Legal Counsel 18 MIKE WHITE (Remote) Office of Corporate Communication 19 20 21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 4 1 IN ATTENDANCE (cont'd.): 2 LIAISONS: 3 KAREN ROSS (Remote) Liaison for Pauli Murray 4 OMER PARDILLO (Remote) 5 Liaison for Celia Cruz 6 GWENDOLYN MINK (Remote) Liaison for Patsy Takemoto Mink 7 HOLLY BROWN OGLE (Remote) 8 MARK BONNIN (Remote) 9 Liaisons for Zitkala-Sa 10 GEORGE DeMASS (Remote) 11 THOMAS WORDEN (Remote) Liaisons for Dr. Mary Edwards Walker 12 13 MEMBERS OF THE PRESS: 14 BRANDON HALL Whitman Publishing, LLC 15 MIKE UNSER 16 Coin News Media Group, LLC 17 18 -oOo- 19 20 21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 5 1 I-N-D-E-X 2 AGENDA ITEM: PAGE: 3 Call to Order 7 4 Roll Call 8 5 2024 AMERICAN WOMEN QUARTER: PAULI MURRAY 6 Report 7 15 April Stafford 8 Consideration 37 9 Scoring Results 67 Greg Weinman, Esq. 10 Motions and Vote 68 11 12 2024 AMERICAN WOMEN QUARTER: CELIA CRUZ 13 Report 73 April Stafford 14 Consideration 80 Scoring Results 90 15 16 17 Greg Weinman, Esq. Motions and Vote 90 18 2024 AMERICAN WOMEN QUARTER: PATSY TAKEMOTO 19 MINK 20 Report 93 April Stafford 21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 6 1 I-N-D-E-X (Cont'd.) 2 Consideration 103 3 Scoring Results 123 Greg Weinman, Esq. 4 Motions and Vote 131 5 6 2024 AMERICAN WOMEN QUARTER: ZITKALA-SA 7 Report 147 April Stafford 8 Consideration 155 Scoring Results 168 9 10 11 Greg Weinman, Esq. Motions and Vote 170 12 2024 AMERICAN WOMEN QUARTER: DR. MARY 13 EDWARDS WALKER 14 Report 172 April Stafford 15 Consideration 188 Scoring Results 213 16 17 Greg Weinman, Esq. 18 Motions and Vote 215 19 Motion to Adjourn 217 20 21 -oOowww.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 7 1 M-E-E-T-I-N-G 2 9:01 a.m. 3 CALL TO ORDER 4 MS. WARREN: Good morning, 5 everybody. 6 being recorded. 7 the CCAC, and I'm going to hand it off to 8 Dr. Brown for opening. 9 This is a reminder that this is This is the second day of THE CHAIR: Good morning. 10 PARTICIPANTS: 11 THE CHAIR: Good morning. I call back to order 12 this meeting of the Citizens Coinage 13 Advisory Committee for Wednesday, March 1, 14 2023. 15 The time is 9:01. This is the second and the final 16 day of this two-day public meeting that 17 began yesterday. 18 I would like to remind the public 19 that this is a listening only and to mute 20 your microphones, as well as any members of 21 the CCAC that are participating remotely. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 8 1 ROLL CALL 2 THE CHAIR: Before we begin, I 3 want to reintroduce members of the 4 Committee. 5 call your name. 6 7 Arthur Bernstein, representing the general public. 8 9 10 11 Please respond "present" when I MR. BERNSTEIN: Art Bernstein, present. THE CHAIR: Dr. Harcourt Fuller, recommended by the Speaker of the House. 12 DR. FULLER: 13 THE CHAIR: 14 representing the general public. 15 MR. GILL: 16 THE CHAIR: 17 Present. Sam Gill, Present. Dr. Dean Kotlowski, specifically qualified in American history. 18 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 19 THE CHAIR: 20 21 Present. Mike Moran, recommended by the Senate Majority Leader. MR. MORAN: Present. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 9 1 THE CHAIR: Robin Salmon, 2 specifically qualified in medallic arts or 3 sculpture. 4 MS. SALMON: 5 THE CHAIR: 6 MR. TUCKER: 8 THE CHAIR: 10 Dennis Tucker, specifically qualified in numismatics? 7 9 Present. Present. Dr. Peter van Alfen, specifically qualified as a Numismatic Curator? 11 DR. VAN ALFEN: 12 THE CHAIR: Present. And I am Dr. Lawrence 13 Brown, representing the general public, and 14 happen to have the honor and privilege of 15 serving as Chair of the CCAC. 16 17 MS. WARREN: Brown. Excuse me, Dr. This is Jennifer Warren. 18 For those that just added on, 19 just a reminder to mute your mic with -- 20 just click the microphone so there's a line 21 through it. And then, when you want to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 10 1 speak, just click it back on so we don't get 2 feedback. Thank you. 3 THE CHAIR: 4 I think we have a quorum. 5 The agenda for today's session 6 Thank you, Jennifer. includes the following: 7 A review and discussion of the 8 reverse candidate designs for the 2024 9 American Women Quarters Program, honoring 10 the following prominent American women: 11 Pauli Murray, Celia Cruz, Patsy Takemoto, 12 Zitkala-Sa, and Dr. Mary Edwards Walker. 13 Before we resume our proceedings, 14 I ask Ms. Jennifer Warren, who is the 15 liaison to CCAC, if there are members of the 16 press who have signed in remotely. 17 18 19 MS. WARREN: This is Jennifer Warren. Brandon Hall, Senior Editor of 20 Social Media, Whitman Publishing, LLC, and 21 Mike Unser, Founder and Editor of Coin News www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 11 1 Media Group, LLC. 2 THE CHAIR: Thank you so much. 3 For the record, I would like to 4 confirm the following Mint staff are 5 attending the session today. 6 indicate "present" after I have called your 7 name. 8 9 April Stafford, Chief, Office of Design Management. 10 MS. STAFFORD: 11 THE CHAIR: 12 Present. Megan Sullivan, Senior Design Specialist. 13 MS. SULLIVAN: 14 THE CHAIR: 15 Please Present. Roger Vasquez, Senior Design Manager. 16 MR. VASQUEZ: 17 THE CHAIR: Pam Borer, Design 19 MS. BORER: Present. 20 THE CHAIR: Russell Evans, Design 18 21 Present. Manager. Manager. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 12 1 2 FEMALE SPEAKER: stepped away. 3 THE CHAIR: 4 MS. HANCHOCK: 5 THE CHAIR: 6 Russ just Boneza Hanchock -Present. -- Design Manager. Very good. 7 Joe Menna -- 8 MR. MENNA: Present. 9 THE CHAIR: -- Engraver. 10 11 Michael Costello, Manager of Design and Engraving. 12 MR. COSTELLO: 13 THE CHAIR: Present. Jennifer Warren, 14 Director of Legislative and 15 Intergovernmental Affairs and Liaison to the 16 CCAC. 17 MS. WARREN: 18 THE CHAIR: 19 Present. Greg Weinman, Senior Legal Counsel and Counsel to the CCAC. 20 MR. WEINMAN: 21 THE CHAIR: Present. Brendan Tate, Senior www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 13 1 Government Affairs Specialist of the Office 2 of Legislative and Intergovernmental 3 Affairs. 4 MR. TATE: 5 THE CHAIR: 6 Present. Mike White, Office of Corporate Communication. 7 MR. WHITE: Present. 8 THE CHAIR: Have I missed anyone 9 of the staff? 10 (No Response.) 11 THE CHAIR: Very good. And 12 finally, I just want to note for the record 13 that we will be joined later on the call by 14 the liaisons for these famous American women 15 that include: 16 17 18 19 20 21 For Pauli Murray, we will be joined by Karen Ross. For Celia Cruz, we will be joined by Omer Pardillo. For Patsy Takemoto Mink, we will be joined by her daughter, Gwendolyn "Wendy" www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 14 1 Mink. 2 For Zitkala-Sa, her 3 great-granddaughter Holly Brown Ogle and her 4 great-great-grandson Mark Bonnin will be 5 joining us. 6 For Dr. Mary Edwards Walker, 7 excuse me, we will be joined by her 8 great-great-great-nephew Thomas Edwards and 9 George DeMass, who is a historian from the 10 Town of Oswego, New York. 11 I'd like to begin to ask the 12 Mint: 13 issues, that need to be clarified? 14 15 Are there any other issues, or any (No Response.) 2024 AMERICAN WOMEN QUARTER: 16 THE CHAIR: PAULI MURRAY Hearing none, the 17 first item today for our review is the 18 reverse candidate designs for the 2024 19 American Women Quarter honoring Pauli 20 Murray. 21 April Stafford, Chief of the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 15 1 Mint's Office of Design Management, will 2 introduce the program and present the 3 obverse and reverse candidate designs for 4 the 2024 American Quarter honoring Pauli 5 Murray. 6 7 8 9 10 11 REPORT MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. This is April Stafford. Some background information on Reverend Dr. Pauli Murray: Reverend Dr. Pauli Murray broke 12 barriers as a staunch advocate for the 13 rights of women and people of color who 14 fought tirelessly for civil rights. 15 As a poet, activist, lawyer, and 16 priest, Murray was directly involved in and 17 helped articulate the intellectual 18 foundations of two of the most important 19 social justice movements of the 20th 20 Century, specifically women's rights and 21 civil rights. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 16 1 In 1948, Murray wrote a 746-page 2 book, "States' Laws on Race and Color," 3 which exposed the extent and absurdity of 4 segregation. 5 copies to law libraries, HBCUs, and human 6 rights organizations. 7 even kept stacks of the book around his 8 NAACP office and referred to Murray's work 9 as, quote, "the bible" of the landmark case 10 The ACLU began to distribute Thurgood Marshall Brown v. Board of Education. 11 When Ruth Bader Ginsberg argued 12 against gender discrimination in front of 13 the Supreme Court in 1971, plaintiff in Reed 14 v. Reed, she used an article cowritten by 15 Murray to argue the Equal Protection Clause 16 applied to women. 17 in Ginsberg's work that Ginsberg listed her 18 as a coauthor on her brief to the Supreme 19 Court. 20 21 Murray was so influential Her spirituality was also integral to her work for civil rights, and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 17 1 in 1977, Murray became the first Black woman 2 in the United States to become an Episcopal 3 priest and was sainted by the Episcopal 4 Church in 2012. 5 She fought and advocated 6 tirelessly her entire life and is regarded 7 as one of the most important social justice 8 advocates of the 20th Century. 9 Ms. Ross, thank you so much for 10 being here with us today. 11 appreciate it. 12 words to the Committee? 13 We really Would you like to say a few MS. ROSS: Yes. You pretty much 14 gave an overview of everything that I was 15 going to say, so I'm going to just give you 16 a blurb of what was left. 17 I am the great-niece of the 18 Reverend Dr. Pauli Murray, the executor of 19 her will and estate, and the founder of the 20 Pauli Murray Foundation, which is a 21 nonprofit organization that gives academic www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 18 1 scholarships to financially-challenged 2 college students. 3 Reverend Murray lived with my 4 family in Baltimore, Maryland for three 5 years before she moved to Pittsburgh and 6 eventually passed. 7 Reverend Murray was a human 8 rights, human justice warrior. She fought 9 every day of her life for women, minorities, 10 the poor, and the, quote, unquote, 11 "unacceptable" in our society. 12 Personally, she wanted to be 13 seen, accepted, and valued, and equal. 14 wanted this for everyone in our country. 15 She Reverend Murray knew that she and 16 her work have been undervalued. 17 received the recognition for her 18 contributions to the equal rights struggle 19 and she knew that her lifelong endeavors 20 were important. 21 She never She saved all of her paperwork, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 19 1 writings, documents, videos with the hope of 2 the future progress of the human rights -- 3 with the hopes that it would have some 4 impact on the future progress of human 5 rights. 6 "Song in a Weary Throat." Thus, she wrote the book called 7 At the end of her life, she found 8 personal acceptance through God and his 9 grace. Through God, she fortified her 10 belief that, through God's eyes, all humans 11 were entitled to equal human rights. 12 The Pauli Murray Foundation and 13 her family selected Design Draft Number 2 14 because we like the symbolism that 15 represented the important aspects of her 16 life, also because it was the strongest 17 design that showed who she was and what she 18 believed. 19 Who You Proclaim Yourself to Be." 20 21 We love the slogan "America, Be Over the last 35-plus years, the Reverend Murray's family, the Pauli Murray www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 20 1 Foundation, and a host of many others have 2 been obsessed with spreading her legacy of 3 accomplishments. 4 and the federal government for this 5 opportunity to educate the world on how 6 amazing she was and exactly what she 7 accomplished. 8 in history for years to come. 9 All of us thank the Mint You have cemented her place I would like to take this 10 opportunity to personally thank the Mint's 11 liaisons who walked our family through this 12 process. 13 supportive. 14 15 16 You have been extremely, extremely Thank you. MS. STAFFORD: Thank you so much. Thank you very much. All right. We'll move through 17 the candidate designs. 18 highlighting the preferences that have been 19 identified up to this point. 20 21 We'll start first by So, in that regard, we will show you Reverse 2. This is the family liaison's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 21 1 preferred design as well as the 2 recommendation by the CFA. 3 request to add the cross necklace that you 4 can see in Design 2A. 5 when we move through the portfolio. 6 that is something that was not only 7 recommended by the CFA but also our family 8 liaison requested as well. 9 All right. There is a I'll point that out And Starting with the 10 candidate designs, Reverse 1 and 1A are 11 portraits of Reverend Dr. Pauli Murray's 12 eyeglass-framed face within the shape of the 13 word "Hope," which is symbolic of Murray's 14 belief that significant societal reforms 15 were possible when rooted in hope. 16 This is a sentiment anchored in 17 her poem "Dark Testament." A line in that 18 poem, "Hope is a song in a weary throat," 19 featured in additional inscription in 20 Reverse 1A, is also the title of her 21 autobiography. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 22 1 Reverses 2 and 2A depict Reverend 2 Dr. Pauli Murray with her characteristic 3 smile as her hands reverently cradle the 4 Scales of Justice, a symbol emblematic of 5 her life's work fighting for justice and 6 equal rights. 7 to her friendship and collaboration with 8 Eleanor Roosevelt, whose 2023 quarter design 9 similarly features scales. 10 These designs are also a nod Reverse 2 features the quote: 11 "America, Be What You Proclaim Yourself to 12 Be." 13 the preference of our family liaison as well 14 as the recommendation by the CFA, although 15 there is a request to add the cross necklace 16 which can be seen in Design 2A, seen here. 17 18 19 And again, Reverse 2, seen here, is And 2A features the inscription: "Hope is a Song in a Weary Throat." Moving on to Reverses 3 and 3A, 20 these designs depict Reverend Dr. Pauli 21 Murray in her element, sitting www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 23 1 contemplatively at her desk as she prepares 2 to write. 3 Scales of Justice on a bookshelf. 4 wearing her clerical collar, a cross 5 necklace, and a seahorse pin, a symbol 6 representing how she viewed herself. 7 8 Murray is Reverse 3 features Murray's name in handwritten script. 9 10 Behind her are books and the And that concludes the candidate designs, Mr. Chairman. 11 THE CHAIR: Thank you so much. 12 Are there any additional comments 13 or motions from any of the members -- my 14 apologies. At this point, we're going to 15 then vote. We're going -- okay. 16 17 Any additional comments from the members at this time? 18 MR. BERNSTEIN: I had a technical 19 question. This is Art Bernstein. 20 Reverse 3, the signature, is that meant to 21 be her actual -- is that a facsimile of her www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 On CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 24 1 signature or is that just a stylized 2 representation? 3 MS. STAFFORD: 4 in fact her signature. 5 Stafford. The former. It is This is April It is her signature. 6 MR. BERNSTEIN: Thank you. 7 DR. VAN ALFEN: This is Peter van 8 Alfen. 9 I've got a question about the 10 seahorse symbolism. Was this a broach that 11 she actually would wear regularly? 12 MS. STAFFORD: 13 DR. VAN ALFEN: Yes. And could you say 14 a little bit more about the symbolism and 15 how this represented how she saw herself? 16 MS. STAFFORD: Sure. I'd ask 17 Boneza Hanchock, who is the Design Manager 18 for this program and worked predominantly 19 with our liaison to speak to that, and 20 perhaps invite Ms. Ross as well, if you'd 21 like. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 25 1 MS. HANCHOCK: Absolutely. 2 Boneza Hanchock. And please, Ms. Ross, 3 interject if I'm incorrect. 4 But she wore that broach because, 5 to her, it symbolized how she viewed herself 6 because seahorses -- and I'm not a Marine 7 Biologist, but they're able to change 8 themselves, change their gender in that way. 9 So, they were, in a way, genderless, 10 ineloquently speaking, so. 11 12 MS. STAFFORD: anything you care to add on that point? 13 14 Ms. Ross, is there MS. ROSS: She was obsessed with seahorses. 15 (Laughter.) 16 DR. VAN ALFEN: 17 MS. ROSS: Fair enough. I took my two-year-old 18 son to the aquarium in Baltimore, and she 19 spent all of her time observing and taking 20 pictures of seahorses. 21 all the time. She wore that pin Because it reflected www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 26 1 uniqueness of who she was sexually. 2 So, I felt to honor the fact that 3 she didn't declare herself as being gay or 4 queer that maybe that should be a symbol 5 that embraces that part of her life. 6 MS. STAFFORD: 7 DR. VAN ALFEN: 8 Thank you so much. This is Peter van Alfen. 9 Joe, I've got a technical 10 question about Reverse 1. 11 reading this right, the letters of "Hope" 12 would be raised off of the field; is that 13 correct? 14 So, if I'm The rest of that would be incuse? MR. MENNA: Yes. Everything 15 black would be field, essentially. 16 "Hope" would be raised one level above that, 17 and then the portrait one level above that. 18 DR. VAN ALFEN: 19 MS. STAFFORD: 20 21 And so, All right. This is April Stafford. If I could add, since we're www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 27 1 talking about Designs 1 and 1A, the Mint was 2 just so thrilled to be able to bring those 3 designs to you, and our Chief Engraver 4 worked closely with the artist in order to 5 ensure that their vision could be 6 represented in this portfolio. 7 But I think it's important to 8 share that several of our stakeholders, 9 while it certainly caught their eye, they 10 were slightly disquieted by the fact that 11 her face seemed to be partially hidden. 12 some of our stakeholders at the Smithsonian 13 as well as the Women's History Museum 14 remarked as such, and I believe our family 15 liaison felt similarly, so. 16 17 THE CHAIR: So, Are there any further questions or comments from Committee? 18 MR. TUCKER: Yes. This is Dennis 19 Tucker, and this is a question for Joe and 20 Mike. 21 I suspect that we'll be moving www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 28 1 towards the liaison's preference of Design 2 2 or 2A, but I'm very curious about 1 and 1A 3 because these look like art that we've never 4 seen before. 5 about it? 6 background of a cartouche, it's remarkable. 7 Is there anything that you can tell us about 8 this? 9 Can you talk a little bit To see this face kind of in the MR. MENNA: I would just say 10 whenever an artist presents a design such as 11 this that's different, my job is just to 12 facilitate their being able to realize that, 13 and Mike's as well, and our Coinability team 14 and ODM, to make it doable. 15 So, it's the -- this is all the 16 artist. This is -- you know, there's no -- 17 the only guidance I gave on this was how to 18 stack the relief, frankly. 19 transparency. 20 percent the artist. 21 up with this one. That's it. Full This is 100 You know, I wish I came www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 29 1 2 MR. TUCKER: This is Dennis Tucker again. 3 I'm just curious; do you see this 4 as a challenging sculpt or would this be a 5 walk in the park? It's so different. 6 MR. MENNA: 7 MR. TUCKER: 8 MR. MENNA: 9 As a sculpt, no. Yeah. The means -- as a sculpt, I wouldn't think it's challenging. 10 I went over it very -- I did go over it with 11 Mike to make sure we can make it, you know. 12 But as I've said, and I don't mean this in 13 any kind of patronizing way, if you see it 14 on the screen, we can make it, you know. 15 16 MR. TUCKER: I understand that, yeah. 17 MR. MENNA: 18 know. 19 Menna, by the way. So, yeah. No, I Every -- they all have -- this is Joe 20 21 Yes. I apologize. They all have their own unique challenges. Every coin is different. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Every CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 30 1 coin is a challenge in its own way; that's 2 what I would say. 3 MS. STAFFORD: But if I may, Mr. 4 Tucker, and this is April Stafford, I think 5 what you were remarking on is that this 6 is -- it's unusual to see something like 7 this, which is why I note that our Chief 8 Engraver really worked very closely with the 9 artist in order to ensure that that artist's 10 vision could be seen in a form that could be 11 coinable. 12 There was a time when perhaps, 13 simply because of difficulties in executing 14 this, the original would have had to have 15 been set aside. 16 the artist to bring something forward that 17 could represent that. 18 MR. MENNA: 19 At the risk of editorializing, I But he really engaged with This is Joe again. 20 think what you may be commenting on is 21 you're starting to see -- I know for this www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 31 1 particular artist, without naming 2 he/she/they, huge artistic leap forward, in 3 my opinion. 4 candidate or anything like that, but along 5 with other designs, I think you're seeing 6 the program grow as a team. I'm not saying it's the best 7 THE CHAIR: 8 MR. WEINMAN: 9 I recognize Greg. One more comment. This is in no way commenting on the quality 10 or the appropriateness of any of the 11 family's preferences or otherwise. 12 But it is worth noting that this 13 legislation has a prohibition on busts or 14 head-and-shoulders portraits. 15 was clever of the artist to create a design 16 that is essentially a portrait but it 17 doesn't violate the statute because it is 18 part of another fundamental primary device 19 in the coin. And so, it 20 So, it was a bit of a clever way 21 to get around the prohibition that's in the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 32 1 statute that way. 2 have to be fuller torso or showing an arm or 3 hand or something so as not to violate the 4 provision of the law that prohibits busts or 5 head-and-shoulders portraits. 6 7 DR. VAN ALFEN: 10 11 This is Peter van Alfen. 8 9 The other depictions all Can I just ask why the prohibition exists? Was there any reason given? MR. WEINMAN: It's the same 12 prohibition that was in other quarter 13 programs before this. 14 a two-headed coin, essentially. The idea was to avoid 15 DR. VAN ALFEN: 16 MR. WEINMAN: Ah. Right. I think at the time 17 that this provision was built into the 18 legislation it was -- the legislation 19 evolved from what was essentially a sports 20 quarter program initially and then evolved 21 into the larger program. And the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 33 1 prohibition on busts or head-and-shoulders 2 portraits, unfortunately, stayed in the 3 legislation even as we were going to have a 4 program that was going to honor individuals, 5 prominent American women. 6 So, the Mint has both carefully 7 but also very creatively found ways to honor 8 the honorees and portray their images 9 without violating the statute. 10 MR. MENNA: At the risk of 11 overtalking, which I'm good at, no, I think 12 the Mint's -- I know other world mints, but 13 our Mint in particular, you know, I always 14 say the obverse is the main character and 15 the reverse is the supporting cast, when you 16 look at older coins particularly. 17 But in our case, these types of 18 programs, the main show is -- not to 19 denigrate President Washington, but the main 20 show are the reverses. 21 innovators, the same prohibition exists, but And American www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 34 1 there's no portrait on the obverse. 2 So, we're kind of ahead of the -- 3 in my opinion -- I'm not a lawyer -- I think 4 legislation will eventually catch up to 5 where we are. Does that make sense? 6 DR. VAN ALFEN: 7 THE CHAIR: 8 Are there any final comments before we proceed with -- 9 10 Mm-hmm. DR. FULLER: Chairman. 11 Thank you, Mr. This is Harcourt Fuller. This is a question for Joe. 12 think I know the answer, but I'll ask 13 anyway. 14 MR. MENNA: 15 DR. FULLER: Yes, sir. The coin as shown 16 has a black background. 17 where I'm going with this. 18 to be black, of course, right? 19 to be clear about that, right? 20 MR. MENNA: 21 DR. FULLER: I I think you know It's not going I just want Correct. And I guess, as a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 35 1 follow-up question, I was wondering why was 2 it not shown in the color in which it would 3 eventually be minted? 4 MR. MENNA: There were some 5 policies enacted and codified in 2007 about 6 inducing and stuff like that using the color 7 black. 8 Some artists interpret that more broadly 9 like this artist, meaning -- black means And April can stop me at any point. 10 polished field. 11 maybe perhaps the same design and the 12 background just be white. 13 Other artists, you'll see And I think we're in the process 14 of working out a way that the artist can 15 express their intent without muting their 16 voices. 17 means polished field right now. So, we're still -- black typically 18 DR. FULLER: Okay. 19 MR. MENNA: 20 MS. STAFFORD: 21 MR. MENNA: Thank you. Incused. Or incused. Yes. Which is still www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 36 1 2 polished field, though. MS. STAFFORD: I was going to say 3 black symbolizes what is incused, but we are 4 aware that some artists apply it slightly 5 more liberally. 6 agreed internally as the designs move 7 through review to ensure that there's an 8 equity of application in that regard. 9 So, we are -- have all MR. MENNA: Yeah. Any confusion 10 is my negligence, frankly, for not uniformly 11 paying -- taking it for granted all these 12 years, you know. 13 THE CHAIR: If I may, for the 14 record, the last comment came from Joe 15 Menna, the comment before that April 16 Stafford, so the record can make sure that 17 we fully document -- 18 MR. MENNA: Sorry. 19 THE CHAIR: No problem. This 20 indicates, in fact, how interested this 21 Committee is about this design. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 37 1 CONSIDERATION 2 3 THE CHAIR: So, let us begin our consideration, if you will. 4 I would like to remind members to 5 please try to keep your comments to five 6 minutes or less. 7 any members who have questions or comments, 8 please hold those, and I promise you that we 9 will get back to them at the end. 10 Additionally, if there are For the benefit of the Court 11 Reporter and those calling in, I ask that 12 you state your name when you begin speaking. 13 And let's try as much as possible to keep 14 our comments to five minutes or less. 15 16 Let us begin with Dr. Harcourt Fuller. 17 18 DR. FULLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 19 We welcome you to the Committee, 20 Ms. Ross. It's always -- you know, one of 21 the joys of serving on this Committee is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 38 1 learning about great Americans that you 2 might have heard of but you don't have the 3 details. 4 opine on this coin. 5 So, I'm so honored to be able to And I'm going to ask Ms. Ross's 6 forgiveness because I'm going to do 7 something that I don't think I've done 8 before, which is -- well, let me first say I 9 congratulate the artists. 10 11 12 13 These are all great designs. But can we go back to 1? I've never seen anything like this on a coin. What is the purpose of a coin? 14 Dean and others have spoken about the 15 tabletop test, right? 16 I'm seeing 10 coins on a table, which one am 17 I going to pick up? 18 right, what am I going to look at, right? 19 Is that right? If In a sea of coins, And if we are trying to educate 20 the American public and the world about 21 these outstanding Americans, we want coins www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 39 1 that will make someone say, "What is this?" 2 When I see the word "Hope," that 3 means so much to so many people. But just, 4 again, how her image comes through makes me 5 want to look at that coin and Google, or 6 Bing -- 7 (Laughter.) 8 DR. FULLER: 9 I think, in my humble opinion, -- Dr. Pauli Murray. 10 more people would do that than if they saw 11 some of the other designs because we're 12 going to have other designs of people on 13 coins. 14 I've never seen anything like 15 this. With all due respect to the family, 16 to the stakeholders, to the artists, this is 17 my pick. 18 Thank you. 19 THE CHAIR: 20 We'll turn now to Dr. Dean 21 Thank you so much. Kotlowski. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 40 1 2 DR. KOTLOWSKI: Chairman. 3 Thank you, Mr. This is Dean Kotlowski. I have to agree with much of what 4 my colleague Dr. Fuller has said. Ms. Ross, 5 I wrote down something that you said in your 6 remarks, that your great-aunt wanted to be 7 seen. 8 me toward Choice Number 2 because you can 9 see her very clearly and very obviously, and And when you said that, that did pull 10 that is the choice of the family and the 11 CFA. 12 But as I think about this more 13 and more, the tabletop test. 14 your eye? 15 actually, I think I prefer 1A a little bit 16 more. 17 What catches And it is 1 and it is 1A. And In terms of your great-aunt being 18 seen, I think she is seen in both 1 and 1A. 19 And if I'm stating what Joe said 20 correctly here, the background is incused, 21 "Hope" is then raised next, and then her www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 41 1 portrait is the highest. 2 little hard for us to see how she's going to 3 be seen here on a coin and that the image of 4 her portrait will be more prominent than 5 maybe we're getting an impression of here. 6 So, maybe it's a Number 1 is excellent. What I 7 like about 1A -- if we can go to 1A, 8 please? -- is that the way the "O" is done, 9 you see a little more of her face. And I 10 think it is genius by the artist -- I can 11 use that word -- the way you have the 12 complete quote here figured in: 13 Song In A Weary Throat." 14 "Hope - A I think what you're getting there 15 is something more than the generic message 16 of hope, which is important. 17 getting an actual quotation, and you're 18 getting it in a stylistically sophisticated 19 and balanced way, the portrait and then the 20 quotation. 21 together by the word "Hope" really But you're And then it's all pulled www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 42 1 brilliantly. 2 The nice thing about Number 2, 3 which is the family's preference, is that 4 you do have a very specific message there, 5 right? 6 Yourself To Be." 7 again to 1A, you've got a specific quotation 8 and a larger message. 9 "America, Be What You Proclaim And then, if you go back And I like all of the designs 10 that have the Reverend Dr. Pauli Murray 11 because I think the general public, when 12 they see that, if they have some awareness 13 of the Civil Rights Movement, that's going 14 to conjure up memories and thoughts of 15 Martin Luther King, Jr., the Reverend Dr. 16 Martin Luther King, Jr. 17 And people are going to think, 18 "Well, this is probably somebody who is like 19 that and maybe did some things that were 20 similar to the Reverend Martin Luther King, 21 Jr." So, in that sense, 1, 1A, 2, and 2A www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 43 1 are all very strong candidates. 2 But I love -- this is a great 3 person. And it is not in my capacity to 4 label things great art, but to the extent to 5 which I can, I think 1A and 1 are great art 6 for a great American. 7 Thank you. 8 THE CHAIR: 9 I'm going to take the privilege Thank you so much. 10 of the Chair to give my comments at this 11 point because I think that my colleagues 12 have raised facts and information that 13 certainly warrant and balance the 14 discussion. 15 Over time, we've had a lot of 16 beautiful designs; there's no question about 17 it. 18 balance between the beauty and the message. 19 Sometimes designs can be so subtle that it 20 may miss the general public. 21 it's really important that we balance them And sometimes we in fact have to And for me, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 44 1 well. 2 As much as I do appreciate that 3 Design Number 1 as a fantastic design that 4 we have not seen before, one has to ask the 5 question about why the family chose 2. 6 I look at the message that's in 2, the 7 question then became to me, somehow or 8 another, the message here was more powerful 9 than the message they felt for Number 1. 10 When As much as Number 1 is a 11 fantastic and a beautiful design, the 12 question becomes: 13 resonate with the public? 14 going to be a circulating coin. 15 the case, you want to have the opportunity 16 for it to provide dividends. 17 will the dividends be realized if the design 18 is too subtle? How is that going to Because this is That being To what extent 19 So, in that respect, I'm going to 20 throw my vote along with that of the CFA and 21 the family. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 45 1 Thank you so much. 2 Let me now turn to Robin Salmon. 3 MS. SALMON: 4 Salmon. 5 This is Robin Thank you, excuse me, Dr. Brown. I'm really torn on this 6 particular coin. As a person who thinks 7 first of art and more of the unusual ways 8 that a subject can be portrayed, I 9 absolutely am crazy about Design 1 and 1A. 10 It is so different, as everyone has said. 11 It reaches out and grabs you. 12 And despite the fact that 13 Reverend Dr. Murray's portrait may be 14 somewhat obscured in these designs, I think 15 because the word "Hope" really reaches out 16 that she would like that. 17 alone choose a design for this, I would say 18 1. 19 And if I could However, 2 and 3 are also very 20 fine designs. And I understand all of the 21 reasons why the family and the CFA might www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 46 1 prefer this with the addition of the cross 2 necklace. 3 include a lovely portrait of her. 4 her quote, which is so powerful. 5 looks like a presidential portrait, if you 6 will. 7 It is straightforward. It does It has And it 3 is also a very strong portrait. 8 I like the fact that she's sitting in her 9 own surroundings, that all of the important 10 imagery is there that's been referenced with 11 the scales, her work, her religion, the 12 symbolism that goes along with her life, as 13 well as the inclusion of the inscription of 14 her handwriting. 15 So, this is a very tough choice, 16 very tough choice. And I'm still not 17 exactly sure where I'm going with it. 18 going to have to make up my mind soon, but I 19 appreciate everything that the family wants 20 with this, as well as any other stakeholder 21 who may be involved. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I'm CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 47 1 So, thank you. 2 THE CHAIR: 3 Let's turn now to Art. 4 MR. BERNSTEIN: Thank you so much. Speaking of art, 5 this is Art Bernstein. 6 take these in reverse order, please. 7 And I'm going to 3 and 3A, I appreciated the same 8 things that Robin appreciated. Seeing 9 Reverend Dr. Murray in her surroundings with 10 all those books scattered around I think 11 demonstrated the breadth of her role in our 12 society. 13 Design 2 has the quotation that I 14 find to be the strongest, and I prefer that 15 design over 2A because I think it's just a 16 little more simple in the design. 17 But I want to say from the bottom 18 of my heart with regard to Designs 1 and 2, 19 when I first saw the designs, I had rejected 20 those two. 21 side. I just pushed them off to the And the beauty of these meetings and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 48 1 hearing from my colleagues today has 2 completely flipped my thinking, and I 3 appreciate what everyone has shared. 4 see real value and real beauty in Designs 1 5 and 1A, and I'm leaning towards supporting 6 those designs. And I 7 Thank you. 8 THE CHAIR: 9 Let's turn now to Mike Moran. 10 MR. MORAN: Thank you so much. I'm there. I 11 couldn't get the cursor on the microphone. 12 I'm sorry. 13 14 15 Thank you, Dr. Brown. This is Mike Moran. First of all, I'm proud that the 16 Reverend Pauli Murray chose the Episcopal 17 Church as her vehicle to promote and advance 18 her goals and aspirations. 19 Episcopalian as well as a Senior Warden to 20 the Bishop of the Diocese of Lexington, I 21 understand it was not always an easy journey As a lifelong www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 49 1 through the Episcopal Church, although it 2 was easier than it would have been through 3 some of the other mainstream Protestant 4 churches. 5 I have listened to the comments 6 made by the Committee, and I too am a bit 7 torn over this one. 8 I finally come down. 9 And I'll tell you where First of all, I don't like 1 10 because I feel the ovals in the "O" and the 11 "P" distract from the portrait and they will 12 distract from the portrait in the coin. 13 I like 1A a lot. But I also like 14 2. 15 quarters are more than just 25 cents to put 16 in a gum machine. 17 convey? 18 about the accomplishments of the women that 19 have been merited and recognized on the 20 backs of these coins? 21 But when I look at what -- these What are we trying to What have we conveyed in the past And you can see instantly from www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 50 1 1A, it's Pauli Murray and it's hope. 2 there's ever anything that this country 3 could use right now, it's hope that tomorrow 4 will be a better day than today. 5 will come across on that quarter. 6 And if And that And remember, we're dealing with 7 a quarter. As good as the portrait looks on 8 2, and it's a good portrait, what's it going 9 to look like on a quarter? And I just -- 10 yesterday, when I was with you all, I bought 11 a set of the 2022 quarters frosted. 12 can tell you that's going to be a frosted 13 mess. 14 and the care and humanity that you see in 15 this sketch. And I You're not going to see the quality 16 And I think that while we have a 17 duty to portray these images accurately, we 18 also have a duty to the American public as 19 to the message that we want these quarters 20 to convey. 21 a lot of emphasis on 1A. And therefore, I'm going to put www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 51 1 Thank you, Dr. Brown. 2 THE CHAIR: 3 Thank you so much for your thoughtful comments. 4 Let's turn now to Sam Gill. 5 MR. GILL: 6 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 7 I'm going to -- well, first of 8 all, Dr. Pauli Murray is just so 9 accomplished and a true intellectual. 10 And it's a privilege to comment on her coin. 11 I'm going to concur with Dr. 12 Brown. 13 because the family is interested in Number 2 14 and the CFA is interested in Number 2, but I 15 think it is the correct choice with the 16 cross added because I like -- I think this 17 woman deserves a portrait. 18 be seen. 19 I believe that the -- not only She deserves to And she's been a part of recent 20 history, and she worked so hard and 21 contributed so much to the intellectual www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 52 1 property of her work. 2 embraced her, like Ruth Bader Ginsberg, for 3 instance. 4 force. 5 portrait. 6 And so many others I mean, she was just a huge And I think she deserves an elegant And that's -- I agree with the 7 family, and that's where I'm siding: 8 2 with cross. 9 Thank you. 10 THE CHAIR: 11 Let's turn now to Peter. 12 DR. VAN ALFEN: 13 14 Number Thank you so much. Thank you, Dr. Brown. I have to say, sitting here for 15 the last several minutes listening to all of 16 my colleagues express their views on all 17 this far more eloquently than I'm sure I 18 can, I have to say I sit here conflicted 19 over which way to go with this. 20 21 I find the opportunity to portray Pauli Murray here and to represent her on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 53 1 this coin, you know, to be a tremendous 2 moment. 3 bring more recognition to her and her work 4 and all the rest of that. 5 Hopefully, this representation will The question is, you know, how do 6 we convey that in the most powerful way 7 possible? 8 to be a perfectly adequate, accessible, nice 9 design. And, you know, I do find Number 2 And I have to say that if Number 10 1A, particularly, were not an option, that 11 certainly would be a very easy choice. 12 But I am just drawn into the 13 power of 1A, particularly with that 14 portrait. 15 And it really is a powerful image. 16 that is absolutely a fantastic, innovative, 17 brilliant design. I cannot take my eyes off of it. I mean, 18 And the question is: 19 convey the message in the same way or in a 20 much more powerful way than Number 2? 21 certainly, you know, respect the family www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Does that And I CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 54 1 liaison, Ms. Ross's preferences as well as 2 the CFA. 3 come from, you know, with this. 4 I can see, you know, where they've But again, I find myself just 5 drawn into 1A particularly as just an 6 amazing design. 7 convey that message perhaps a bit more 8 powerfully than 2, you know, would. 9 And that, I think, would So, you know, again, I feel very 10 conflicted about this because, you know, I 11 do understand, you know, Dr. Brown and, you 12 know, his eloquent expression about that, 13 particularly with accessibility and the 14 rest, and honoring, you know, the family's 15 choices. 16 next few minutes, and we'll see. So, I will make my decision in the 17 So, thank you. 18 THE CHAIR: 19 sentiments very much. 20 sharing. 21 We appreciate those Thank you for Let's turn now to Dennis, Dennis www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 55 1 Tucker. 2 3 MR. TUCKER: Brown. 4 Thank you, Dr. This is Dennis Tucker. And this is a challenge. This is 5 a real challenge because we -- I'll echo the 6 sentiments of my colleagues here: 7 two very strong -- three very strong 8 designs, two that start to reach perfection, 9 I would say. 10 1A is wonderful. We have It's unique. 11 It's innovative and artistic in ways that we 12 don't always see in circulating coinage. 13 has art, symbolism, and messaging. 14 standalone piece of art and work of coinage, 15 it nears perfection. 16 It As a 2 also has everything that a coin 17 needs. 18 symbolism, and the messaging. 19 different from 1A, and that's what makes it 20 a challenge. 21 It has the art, it has the Very I don't know if it's premature, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 56 1 but I would like to yield my time to Ms. 2 Ross and hear her analysis and her thoughts 3 on 1A versus 2, and see if maybe her 4 comments can guide us a bit. 5 6 THE CHAIR: Dennis, I think you were anticipating what I was going to do. 7 So, may I suggest that, before we 8 do that, let's hear from Mr. Saunders first. 9 Ms. Ross may want to hear his comments 10 before she offers hers. 11 MR. SAUNDERS: 12 you. 13 to say. 14 Dr. Brown, thank John Saunders here, as I've been told I'm going to be different than 15 everybody else. I like the experimentalness 16 of 1 and 1A, particularly 1A being the 17 better of the two. 18 something -- a coin that was actually struck 19 kind of along those lines before I jump into 20 the field of fray and recommend something 21 that I'm not sure would come out as well as But I would like to see www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 57 1 I think it -- as the picture comes out. 2 So, that kind of leaves me 3 between the 2 and 3 design. 4 said anything nice about 3, but it was my 5 favorite. 6 And no one else I like both 2 and 3. I like the 7 fact that 3 shows her at work, shows her 8 working -- looking at perhaps a law that she 9 was supporting or something of that nature 10 with books in the background. 11 The other thing that I didn't 12 like about 2 is she's holding a balanced 13 scale. 14 times to weigh coins and other metals. 15 you can't hold a balanced scale and hold it 16 even like that. 17 it's a fake or it's -- it's impossible. 18 I just didn't like her holding the balanced 19 scale. 20 21 I've used a balanced scale many And I mean, that's -- either And I liked it much better being on the bookshelf. I mean, it shows what she's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 58 1 talking about, her thought that, you know, 2 equality, balancing things is the right way 3 to go. 4 bookshelf than I did someone holding it. 5 So, I'm going to go, I think, But I liked it much better on the 6 unless, you know, all of us are reserving 7 our final judgment until we hear all the 8 comments, but I think I like 3 best. 9 I'll be the outlier here. 10 So, I think all of them were good, by 11 the way. I mean, don't get me wrong, but 3 12 was my favorite. 13 THE CHAIR: Thank you so much. 14 Ms. Ross, you've heard the 15 comments from members of the Committee. 16 think it would be invaluable for us to -- my 17 apologies. 18 DR. KOTLOWSKI: I wanted to add 19 something before we -- but also so did 20 Harcourt. 21 We This is Dr. Dean Kotlowski. Go ahead. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 59 1 DR. FULLER: 2 THE CHAIR: May I? So, let me -- if we 3 do that, may I suggest the following? Let's 4 hear from Ms. Ross, and then we'll come back 5 to members of the Committee because I 6 suspect other members of the Committee may 7 want to comment as well. 8 So, let's first hear from Ms. 9 Ross and then we can take it back to any 10 further conversation. 11 Ms. Ross, again, you happen to be 12 the witness to one of the occasions when we 13 have a real robust conversation about a 14 design. 15 thoughts, having heard what we have shared 16 today. 17 And we're interested in your MS. ROSS: Well, the amazing 18 thing is that our family went through this 19 same back and forth. 20 1, but we felt like her face was obscured, 21 and plus the fact, as laypeople, we don't We fell in love with www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 60 1 have that artisan vision that you all have. 2 It was hard for us to 3 conceptualize the black being raised, you 4 know. 5 able to visualize what the coin would look 6 like minus the black. 7 black had to be there for design purposes, 8 guideline purposes, but that was one of our 9 big concerns. We don't have the information to be 10 And I understand the And we just felt like, as a 11 group, we felt like Number 2 spoke to her 12 journey more than the hope of the nation. 13 I think the family will be 14 comfortable with either one of those 15 designs. 16 initially, but then we wanted to become 17 all-inclusive of the aspects of her life. 18 As I said, it spoke to us So, if you all go with 1, I would 19 hope that you would go with the one where 20 you can see more of her face than her 21 peeking through letters. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 61 1 So, if that makes it any easier 2 for you, we won't be devastated if you pick 3 1. We did not like 3 at all. 4 (Laughter.) 5 MS. ROSS: There's a picture that 6 that was drawn from, and if -- you know, we 7 wanted something more unique than a copy of 8 a picture. 9 So, thank you. 10 THE CHAIR: 11 We have a comment from our Chief 12 Thank you so much. Engraver. 13 MR. MENNA: This is Joe Menna. 14 Ms. Ross, pleasure to be able to talk to 15 you. 16 Something everyone in the room is 17 very familiar with but might -- just to give 18 a little more background, your -- everyone's 19 opinion about art counts, from my 20 perspective. 21 When it comes to coins, we have www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 62 1 to think about scale and real estate. 2 as important as the symbolism on a coin, or 3 even the portrait -- I'm not editorializing 4 as to which one's better in any way, shape, 5 or form. 6 one. But Design -- what is it? -- that 2? 7 MALE SPEAKER: 8 FEMALE SPEAKER: 9 MR. MENNA: 10 So, 1A. 1A. No, 2. 2. 2. With the scales, with the scales. 11 With coins, everything is about 12 real estate in terms of visibility. 13 3-inch Congressional Gold Medal, everything 14 in this design would be evidently visible. 15 On a But at the scale of a quarter, 16 even sculpted by the best sculptor, it would 17 be very challenging to get a likeness which 18 is only millimeters in length to be 19 readable. 20 the scales will be difficult to read at this 21 scale. Additionally, the seahorse and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 63 1 So, the symbolism that helps 2 share the story and the portrait itself, 3 while acceptable by our coining standards -- 4 and we never try to stifle any particular 5 artist's vision -- would not be as readable 6 as the portrait on the first two designs, 7 despite the intersection with the lettering. 8 That's just a technical observation about 9 scale. 10 So, thank you for your time. 11 THE CHAIR: This is Lawrence 12 Brown. And unless any member of the 13 Committee is going to offer -- 14 MS. WARREN: Sorry, Dr. Brown. 15 This is Jennifer Warren. 16 hand raised. 17 the screen. Mike Moran has his You can't see that because of 18 THE CHAIR: Apology. 19 So, I'm going to ask the 20 Committee members that unless you're going 21 to offer something that's going to be www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 64 1 different than what one has already 2 articulated, and given the time that we have 3 in front of us, I just want to make sure 4 that we balance that. 5 So that I'm going to recognize 6 Mike since he's there, then I'm going to 7 recognize anyone else, but remember that we 8 are beyond our time, and deservedly so. 9 So, let me make sure that we are 10 clear; I'm not saying that we should 11 minimize the importance of what we're doing, 12 but I do also recognize we want to maintain 13 quorum. 14 Mike? 15 MR. MORAN: 16 Dr. Brown, thank you. This is Mike Moran. 17 In view of our sponsor's comments 18 about 1 versus 1A, let's not split our votes 19 between 1 and 1A. 20 for the image of "Hope," vote for 1A -- it's 21 clearly the better one -- so we don't have If you're going to vote www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 65 1 to make any motions at the end if we have a 2 split between the two. 3 on 1. It's a wasted vote 4 THE CHAIR: Dean? 5 MR. MORAN: Does everybody 6 understand what I'm trying to say? 7 PARTICIPANTS: 8 MR. MORAN: Thank you. 9 THE CHAIR: Dean? 10 11 12 DR. KOTLOWSKI: Yes. This is Dean Kotlowski. And Ms. Ross, thank you so much 13 for your open-mindedness and your 14 encouragement and your humility. 15 everybody, we all have opinions on art, but 16 it's good to hear, you know, what you said. 17 Yes, I want to add something to the 18 comments about 1A that I think also make it 19 very powerful. 20 line, you do see "Hope" and then, below 21 that, you see "The Reverend Dr. Pauli If you look at the horizon www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 66 1 Murray," and then, below that, you see "E 2 Pluribus Unum." 3 there's a parallel message here that I think 4 is also very powerful that makes this a 5 particularly powerful coin. So, there is yet another -- 6 THE CHAIR: 7 Any other members that feel the 8 9 10 Thank you so much. need to? (No Response.) THE CHAIR: Not hearing or seeing 11 any, I'm going to ask, Mike and Joe, do you 12 have anything else you want to share with 13 the Committee regarding the design? 14 MR. MENNA: I have nothing. 15 MR. COSTELLO: 16 THE CHAIR: 17 Hearing none, the Committee will 18 now score the reverse candidate designs for 19 the 2024 American Woman Quarter honoring the 20 Reverend Dr. Pauli Murray. 21 should have in front of you the score No, sir. Thank you. Each of you www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 67 1 2 3 4 5 sheets. Mike, you will send yours in electronically. When we have done, please give them to Greg, who will tally them. 6 Let's take 10 minutes' recess. 7 MS. WARREN: 8 9 10 11 send them in. Also, Robin, please This is Jennifer. We're going to go on recess. MR. WEINMAN: Thank you, sir. We're in recess. 12 (Brief Recess.) 13 MS. WARREN: 14 15 Okay. We are back. SCORING RESULTS THE CHAIR: We are back, and I 16 recognize Greg Weinman, Counsel to the CCAC, 17 to present the results of the scoring. 18 MR. WEINMAN: Once again, as with 19 yesterday, these are out of a possible score 20 of 30 points. 21 Design Number 1 received 3 votes. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 68 1 2 Design Number 1A received 25, making it the high-scoring design. 3 Design Number 2 received 18. 4 Design 2A receiving 8. 5 Design 3 receiving 6. 6 And 3A receiving 6. 7 So, once again, out of a possible 8 30 points, Design 1A is the Committee's 9 high-scoring design at 25. 10 MOTIONS AND VOTE 11 THE CHAIR: 12 Are there any motions? 13 MR. TUCKER: 14 I ask the Committee: Dennis? This is Dennis Tucker. 15 I don't think this requires a 16 motion, but I would just, for the record, 17 like to recommend that we recommend to the 18 Secretary of the Treasury Design 1A. 19 20 21 THE CHAIR: Is there a second for the motion? DR. VAN ALFEN: Peter van Alfen, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 69 1 second. 2 3 THE CHAIR: second. 4 5 MS. SALMON: Robin Salmon, MS. WARREN: I'm sorry. second. 6 7 Jennifer, Dr. Brown. 8 hand raised. 9 10 Peter van Alfen, This is Mike Moran has his MR. MORAN: Well, I did, but I wasn't quick enough. 11 I would like for the person that 12 voted for Number 1, because they didn't vote 13 for Number 1A, to consider shifting their 14 vote and for the simple reality that we have 15 to buck the CFA choice. 16 have a good chance of getting our 1A choice 17 in there, we need to get as many points on 18 it as we can. 19 it is. 20 21 And if we want to It's just the reality of what MR. WEINMAN: Mr. Chairman, can I comment? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 70 1 In fact, that is not one person. 2 That is -- the 3 represents other people's 3 votes. 4 votes to 1 also voted for 1A, both. The people who voted for -- gave 5 MR. MORAN: Okay. 6 THE CHAIR: Counsel? 7 question for Counsel. 8 Brown. This is a Yes, this is Lawrence A question for Counsel. 9 10 So be it. To do what Mike is suggesting, would we not have to take a revote? 11 MR. WEINMAN: Yeah, and it isn't 12 the way -- in other words, it wasn't -- 1A 13 did not receive the maximum votes not 14 because people voted for 1 but because there 15 were other people who simply didn't vote for 16 1A. So -- 17 MR. MORAN: I'm with it. 18 going to make a motion we make this 19 unanimous. 20 21 MR. WEINMAN: I'm not There is already a motion on the table to make the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 71 1 recommendation, so that -- keeping in 2 mind -- this is Greg Weinman, Counsel. 3 scoring is a tool. 4 itself a recommendation. The The scoring is not 5 So, the tool that you used to 6 gauge interest has given you this score. 7 The motion on the table actually is the 8 recommendation of the Committee. 9 THE CHAIR: So, we have a motion 10 on the table, and we have a second. 11 there any further conversation or discussion 12 on the motion? 13 Mr. Saunders? 14 MR. SAUNDERS: 15 18 19 20 21 I will amend to make it a unanimous motion. 16 17 Is THE CHAIR: Dennis will agree THE CHAIR: This is a friendly with that. amendment to make it unanimous. MR. TUCKER: Oh, well, I think our vote would do so, yes. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 72 1 THE CHAIR: 2 MR. TUCKER: 3 THE CHAIR: 4 So, is it accepted? Yeah. He's accepted the friendly amendment. 5 All those in favor, "aye"? 6 (Chorus of "aye".) 7 THE CHAIR: 8 (No Response.) 9 THE CHAIR: 10 motion carries. 11 record. Any opposition? Hearing none, the Unanimously. For the 12 (Motion Carried Unanimously.) 13 THE CHAIR: 14 Are there any other motions with respect to this program? 15 (No Response.) 16 THE CHAIR: Seeing none, since 17 all discussion on this program has 18 concluded, I would like to thank, and really 19 thank from the depth of our hearts, Ms. 20 Ross, for your continued efforts to make 21 this known to all the American public about www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 73 1 the phenomenal achievements of this 2 fantastic African American woman. 3 So, thank you so much. And thank 4 you for attending today. And you may just 5 continue to join with us if you desire, but 6 if you have other things to do, that's your 7 option as well. 8 2024 AMERICAN WOMEN QUARTER: 9 THE CHAIR: CELIA CRUZ The second item today 10 for our review is the reverse candidate 11 designs for the 2024 Women Quarter honoring 12 Celia Cruz. 13 April Stafford, again the Chief 14 of the Mint's Office of Design Management, 15 will introduce the program and present the 16 reverse candidate designs for this quarter. 17 18 19 20 21 REPORT MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. This is April Stafford. Some background on this program. Celiz Cruz was a distinguished Cuban www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 74 1 American artist who became an international 2 superstar and cultural icon. 3 her Cuban culture, she also helped 4 Afro-Latino Americans embrace their own 5 heritage. 6 By celebrating Cruz was a dazzling performer who 7 had a powerful voice, energetic stage 8 presence, and a unique style that endeared 9 her to fans worldwide and across 10 generations. 11 the male-dominated world of salsa music, the 12 Queen of Salsa performed all over the world 13 for more than five decades and recorded more 14 than 50 albums. 15 One of few women to succeed in Her musical skills, combined with 16 her elaborate costumes and her signature 17 catchphrase "Azucar," "Sugar" in Spanish, 18 electrified audiences worldwide. 19 as a seemingly simple request for sugar in 20 her Cuban coffee while dining at a 21 restaurant, "Azucar" became so much more. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 What began CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 75 1 Some attribute it to a rallying cry in 2 remembrance of all enslaved Afro-Latinos in 3 Cuba and the Caribbean forced to work the 4 sugarcane fields. 5 I believe we are honored to have 6 Omer Pardillo, our liaison for this program, 7 with us. 8 9 10 Thank you so much for being here, Mr. Pardillo. Would you care to say a few words to the Committee? 11 You're on mute, sir. 12 MR. PARDILLO: Sorry, sorry. Hi. 13 Good morning. 14 former manager of Celia Cruz and executor of 15 her estate. 16 My name is Omer Pardillo, With great honor in this meeting 17 honoring the late Celia Cruz with a coin I 18 think is one of the highest achievements 19 that Celia has had since her passing. 20 there have been many, but this is a very, 21 very important achievement for her legacy. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 76 1 I think you have made a summary 2 of Celia's career and on what she's getting 3 honored. 4 I'll be happy to answer. 5 If you have any questions for me, The family and the estate have 6 chosen the Option Number 1 to be the primary 7 option for this design, and also Option 8 Number 3 would be our second choice. 9 CCR03. 10 It's I'm happy here to answer any 11 questions in reference to the designs for 12 Celia's legacy. 13 MS. STAFFORD: This is April. 14 Thank you so much, Mr. Pardillo. 15 And we'll move on to looking at the 16 preferences. 17 So, as was noted, Design 1 was 18 identified as the primary preference of our 19 liaison, as well as the recommendation by 20 the CFA. 21 All right. So, this design is a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 77 1 dynamic portrait of Celia Cruz flashing her 2 dazzling smile while performing in a 3 rumba-style dress. 4 catchphrase "Azucar!" is inscribed on the 5 right. 6 Her signature Again, this is the primary 7 preference of the estate and the 8 recommendation of the CFA. 9 Reverse 2 depicts Celia Cruz 10 singing while gesturing boldly with her left 11 hand and holding a microphone in her right, 12 with the additional inscription "Queen of 13 Salsa!" overlaid on the portrait. 14 background swirl represents her exhilarating 15 energy and rhythm of the music. 16 The And Reverse 3 features a portrait 17 of the glamorous, vivacious Celia Cruz 18 singing and flashing her infectious and 19 exuberant smile. 20 is "Azucar!" 21 this is the estate's secondary preference. The additional inscription Again, as Mr. Pardillo noted, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 78 1 Reverse 4 depicts Celia Cruz in 2 motion as if captured in the midst of an 3 elaborate salsa dance move on stage. 4 the additional inscription includes the 5 "Queen of Salsa." 6 And Finally, Reverses 5 and 5A depict 7 Celia Cruz mid-performance surrounded by 8 sculpted waves that symbolize the energy of 9 her powerful voice. Below her, the straight 10 lines reminiscent of piano keys move the 11 viewer's eyes from the bottom left towards 12 her name, with musical notes radiating in 13 between the distinctive lines. 14 15 That concludes the candidate designs. 16 THE CHAIR: Thank you so much. 17 Are there any technical or legal 18 questions from the Committee about this 19 program or designs? 20 21 DR. VAN ALFEN: This is Peter van Alfen, and this is a question for Joe, Joe www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 79 1 Menna. 2 On Reverse 1, if I'm reading this 3 correctly, "Celia" would be incuse and 4 "Cruz" would be relief; is that correct? 5 6 MR. MENNA: This is Joe Menna. Yes. 7 DR. VAN ALFEN: Is there any 8 reason why there's one relief and the other 9 incuse? 10 MR. MENNA: This is Joe Menna 11 again. 12 relief, everything that goes to the edge 13 needs to taper, but the body is fuller -- is 14 more full. 15 Yes, because of the nature of I believe it's been -- when I see 16 portfolios visually, number one, I'm 17 assuming it's the artist's intent for 18 "Celia" to pop out, but number two, we 19 wouldn't be able to raise it as -- the 20 relief on the edge of the coin, the body is 21 necessarily going to be higher than the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 80 1 sleeve, so it would be more difficult. 2 Also, just technically, to have 3 the raised text above her body, the relief 4 height would not accommodate it. 5 height available at that part of the coin 6 would not accommodate it. 7 DR. VAN ALFEN: 8 9 The relief All right. Thank you. THE CHAIR: Are there any other 10 questions or comments from the members of 11 the Committee regarding the legal or 12 technical matters? 13 14 15 16 17 (No Response.) CONSIDERATION THE CHAIR: Hearing none, let us begin our consideration. I'd like to, again, remind our 18 members to please try to keep your comments 19 to five minutes or less. 20 members have additional questions, please 21 know that I will be -- we will have an Additionally, if www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 81 1 opportunity to share those -- for you to 2 pose those later on. 3 For the benefit of the Court 4 Reporter and those calling in, I ask that 5 you state your name before you begin 6 speaking. 7 8 Let us begin our considerations with Sam Gill. 9 10 11 MR. GILL: Chairman. Well, thank you, Mr. This is Sam Gill. I too like Number 1. This woman 12 was just a powerhouse. 13 ever seeing her perform on YouTube or 14 anything that you can find her on, I mean, 15 she's just fun, fun, fun to watch. 16 think Number 1 does capture her as well as 17 it's possible to capture her on a coin. 18 If you can remember And I I liked 5 and 5A from the 19 standpoint that I thought -- found them very 20 interesting, but the detail in them would 21 just get washed up in a quarter, from my www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 82 1 taste. 2 3 So, with that said, my choice would be Number 1. Thank you, sir. 4 THE CHAIR: 5 Let's turn now to Peter. 6 DR. VAN ALFEN: 7 I have to say I really love Number 1. 10 11 THE CHAIR: I'm sorry, Peter. You want to repeat your name for the record? 12 13 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 8 9 Thank you. DR. VAN ALFEN: Peter van Alfen, yeah. 14 I have to say I really love 15 Number 1. 16 dynamic, joyful portrait. 17 things I like about it also is the extended 18 left hand, which seems to engage the 19 audience and invite them, you know, into the 20 moment portrayed here. 21 I think that this is a really And one of the So, I'm more than happy to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 83 1 support that design. I think it certainly 2 is the best of the lot here. 3 So, thank you. 4 THE CHAIR: 5 Let's turn now to Harcourt. 6 DR. FULLER: 7 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 8 9 Thank you so much. Mr. Pardillo, bienvenido al Comite. Welcome to the Committee. 10 MR. PARDILLO: 11 DR. FULLER: Muchas gracias. This is an absolute 12 honor, and it just makes me, once again -- 13 it reaffirms my love for this country, and 14 it makes me so proud to see someone who was 15 born in another country who became a United 16 States citizen, who did so much for this 17 country and who received so much for this 18 country, be honored in this way. 19 make it onto a coin, you know, you've made 20 it. 21 When you And it just -- I'm emotional. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 84 1 love this woman. 2 into salsa and other forms of music. 3 this is just so great. 4 right words to express. 5 She brought so many of us And I don't have the This reaffirms that this country 6 is moving in the right direction when we 7 recognize all Americans regardless of 8 national origin or anything like that. 9 just so proud today to be an American 10 citizen. 11 Thank you. 12 MR. WEINMAN: 13 DR. FULLER: 14 (Laughter.) 15 DR. FULLER: 16 THE CHAIR: 21 1A. 1A. I'm sorry. I Let's turn now to Dennis Tucker. 19 20 Design? meant 1. 17 18 I'm MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Dr. Brown. And thank you, Dr. Fuller. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 85 1 want to echo what you just said. 2 personal connections to Puerto Rico, not to 3 Cuba, but I have listened to a lot of Latin 4 music and a lot of salsa and a lot of Celia 5 Cruz. 6 I'll tell you that. 7 I have And I love Celia Cruz, Mr. Pardillo, And I look at this coin and I can 8 hear her shouting, "Azucar!" And if you've 9 ever heard her music, you can hear that in 10 your head when you look at this coin. 11 also -- I love its vibrancy, its action. 12 It's a wonderful portrait. 13 I I want to talk a little bit about 14 how her name is depicted too, with "Celia" 15 being incuse. 16 this. 17 because, for salsa music, for Latin music, 18 if you say "Celia," people know who you're 19 talking about, right? 20 "Elvis" or "Dolly" or "Aretha" or "Elton." 21 You know, you don't have to say the last And Peter, you mentioned I do see that as a design choice It's like saying www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 86 1 name. People know "Celia." 2 And so, I like having "Celia" set 3 apart like that. I think there's an elegant 4 touch. 5 the artist, but I suspect it was. I don't know if it was intended by 6 Number 1 is a beautiful design. 7 I'm very excited to see this in the nation's 8 pocket change. 9 So, thank you, Mr. Pardillo. 10 Thank you to the Mint's art staff 11 and for the artists for bringing a wonderful 12 portfolio. 13 Thank you, Dr. Brown. 14 THE CHAIR: 15 Let's turn now to John Saunders. 16 MR. SAUNDERS: Thank you. I like all three. 17 The last one I thought was very -- Number 5 18 was very artistic but not something I think 19 would go on a coin well. 20 I thought, wow, this is going to be a hard 21 decision. But the first four www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 87 1 And Number 1, I worry about just 2 a touch what it's going to look like after 3 it's been in circulation for 10 or 20 years. 4 But it is going to be so magnificent as a 5 proof with frosted highlights, and I wait to 6 see what our Mint personnel do with that, 7 that I have to be in favor of Number 1. 8 just -- it's a dynamic design and, okay, if 9 it wears a little bit, it wears a little 10 bit, but I want my proof. 11 THE CHAIR: 12 Let's turn now to Dean. 13 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 14 15 Chairman. Thank you so much. Thank you, Mr. This is Dean Kotlowski. I too am in favor of Number 1 for 16 all of the comments that were stated 17 earlier, and those are my comments. 18 it's a terrific coin. 19 THE CHAIR: 20 21 It I think Thank you so much. Beauty and brevity, we appreciate that. Let's turn now to Robin. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 88 1 2 MS. SALMON: Chair. Thank you, Mr. This is Robin Salmon. 3 I never saw Celia Cruz perform 4 live, but I did see her on television. And 5 what a dynamo, as well as a wonderful 6 singer. 7 audience and grab you individually, even if 8 you were watching on television. She could just reach out to the 9 And I feel that Number 1 portrays 10 that dynamism. 11 it's energetic, which is so much what she 12 was about. 13 14 It's a good likeness. So, my support goes with Number 1. Thank you. 15 THE CHAIR: 16 Let's turn now to Art. 17 MR. BERNSTEIN: 18 And Thank you. This is Art Bernstein. 19 Number 1. 20 (Laughter.) 21 THE CHAIR: Mike Moran? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 89 1 MR. MORAN: This is Mike Moran. 2 Number 1. 3 THE CHAIR: 4 This is Lawrence Brown, and I Thank you so much. 5 want to articulate -- actually, to support 6 the comments by my colleagues about the 7 significance of the design and the beauty of 8 all the art here but especially Number 1. 9 10 Are there any additional comments or motions from members at this time? 11 (No Response.) 12 THE CHAIR: 13 Mike and Joe, do you have additional comments? 14 MR. COSTELLO: 15 MR. MENNA: I have no comment. 16 THE CHAIR: Okay. 17 Now the Committee will score. 18 No, sir. Again, we will be in recess for 10 minutes. 19 (Brief Recess.) 20 MS. WARREN: 21 Thank you. from recess. Okay. We're back Dr. Brown? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 90 1 THE CHAIR: We are back. I 2 recognize Greg Weinman, Counsel to the CCAC, 3 to present the results from the scoring. 4 SCORING RESULTS 5 MR. WEINMAN: Once again, out of 6 a possible score of 30, Design Number 1 7 received a total of 30 out of 30. 8 Design Number 2 received 3. 9 Design Number 3 received 7. 10 11 Design Number 4 received a score of 4. 12 13 Design Number 5 received a score of 2. 14 15 And Design 5A also received a score of 2. 16 Once again, the high-scoring 17 design is Design Number 1, with a perfect 18 score of 30. 19 20 21 THE CHAIR: Thank you so much, Greg. MOTIONS AND VOTE www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 91 1 2 THE CHAIR: motions? 3 Recognizing Art. MR. BERNSTEIN: 4 Bernstein. 5 recommend Design 1. 6 7 Are there any This is Art I move that we unanimously DR. VAN ALFEN: Peter van Alfen. Second. 8 THE CHAIR: Thank you. 9 Any discussion on the motion? 10 (No Response.) 11 THE CHAIR: 12 Hearing none, all those in favor, "aye"? 13 (Chorus of "aye.") 14 THE CHAIR: 15 Mike, you're an "aye"? 16 (Brief Pause.) 17 MR. MORAN: 18 (Laughter.) 19 THE CHAIR: Thank you. 20 MR. MORAN: I've got some other 21 Yes, I'm an "aye." things I'm doing here. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 92 1 2 THE CHAIR: right. We understand. 3 4 That's quite all It sounds like the motion carries. 5 (Motion Carried Unanimously.) 6 THE CHAIR: Very good. Since all 7 discussion on this program has concluded, 8 then I would like to take this moment again 9 to thank Mr. Pardillo for joining us and 10 helping us to really appreciate and 11 recognize the fantastic contributions of 12 Celia Cruz. 13 So, thank you so much for your 14 support of her as well as thank you for 15 attending with us today and sharing with us 16 the comments that you have. 17 MR. PARDILLO: I want to thank 18 you and thank the U.S. Mint Office and the 19 U.S. Government to recognize this amazing 20 lady who was -- the persona behind the great 21 singer that we all know, it was better than www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 93 1 the singer. Her persona behind, the 2 humanitarian, that's the Celia Cruz that 3 everybody who knew her had the great 4 opportunity of knowing those qualities. 5 So, I want to thank you all for 6 your time and for honoring Celia this way. 7 THE CHAIR: Thank you. 8 2024 AMERICAN WOMEN QUARTER: 9 MINK 10 THE CHAIR: PATSY TAKEMOTO The third item today 11 for our review is the reverse candidate 12 design for the 2024 American Women Quarter 13 honoring Patsy Takemoto Mink. 14 Ms. Stafford, again, the Chief of 15 the Mint's Office of Design and Development, 16 will introduce the program and present the 17 reverse candidate designs. 18 19 20 21 REPORT MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. This is April Stafford. Some background on this quarter. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 94 1 Patsy Takemoto Mink was a third-generation 2 Japanese American born and raised on the 3 island of Maui in Hawaii. 4 discrimination throughout her life, which 5 affected and subsequently shaped her 6 education, career opportunities, and 7 convictions. 8 9 She endured Ms. Mink continued to persevere and succeed, eventually winning seats in the 10 Hawaii Territorial Legislature, the Hawaii 11 State Senate, and ultimately the U.S. House 12 of Representatives, becoming the first woman 13 of color to serve in the United States 14 Congress. 15 in Congress, from 1965 to 1977, and another 16 seven consecutive terms, from 1989 to 2002. 17 She served six consecutive terms As a member of Congress, she 18 fought for gender and racial equality, 19 affordable childcare, support for low-income 20 women and families, environmental 21 protection, peace, and most notably, the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 95 1 landmark Title IX of the Education 2 Amendments of 1972. 3 Posthumously renamed the Patsy T. 4 Mink Equal Opportunity in Education Act, 5 Title IX states in part, quote: 6 in the United States shall, on the basis of 7 sex, be excluded from participation in, be 8 denied the benefits of, or be subjected to 9 discrimination under any education program "No person 10 or activity receiving Federal financial 11 assistance." 12 Title IX not only opened up new 13 avenues of study for women but also opened 14 up real opportunity in sports at both the 15 collegiate and high school levels. 16 Patsy Takemoto Mink was a 17 dedicated civil servant whose lifelong 18 pursuit of racial and gender equality 19 cemented her legacy and is an inspiration to 20 many to continue the fight for equity. 21 We have family representative www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 96 1 Wendy Mink with us today. 2 3 Ms. Mink, would you like to say a few words to the Committee? 4 MS. MINK: I don't actually have 5 a prepared statement, but I would like to 6 express my gratitude and my family's 7 gratitude for the inclusion of my mother in 8 this quarter series. 9 and we're very excited about having the It's quite an honor, 10 coins actually in hand and being able to 11 celebrate this recognition. 12 I'd also like to thank folks for 13 including our voices along the way in this 14 process. 15 all discuss where we are in a few moments. 16 And I look forward to hearing you I'll just leave it by saying that 17 the family would be very happy with Image 18 Number 4 or Number 5. 19 different reasons but commonly embracing 20 both because they contain the principal 21 signifiers of her work and her origins. Liking both for www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 97 1 And I'll just leave it at that. 2 MS. STAFFORD: 3 This is April Stafford. 4 5 Thank you so much. We'll move through the preferences. 6 So, first, we go to -- this is 7 Design 5. 8 of the family liaison as well as the 9 recommendation by the CFA. 10 Design 5 is the first preference And we also have -- oh, we'll go 11 on to -- there's a secondary preference of 12 the family. 13 through the portfolio. I'll note that as we move 14 All right. 15 MS. MINK: 16 So -Number 4 is the secondary preference. 17 MS. STAFFORD: Yes, ma'am. 18 So, starting with Reverse 1, this 19 reverse depicts Mink with her landmark 20 legislation, commonly known as Title IX. 21 She's encircled by a ring of symbols www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 98 1 representing women, with the interior of the 2 symbols featuring a variety of sports and 3 educational opportunities now available to 4 women. 5 Reverses 2 and 2A feature an 6 enlarged image of Mink surrounded by symbols 7 representing women, filled with the icons of 8 opportunities women can pursue. 9 Design 4 depicts Mink with her 10 Title IX legislation in front of the Capitol 11 Building. 12 "Equal Opportunity In Education." 13 design is the secondary preference of the 14 family liaison. 15 The additional inscription is This And finally, Reverse 5 portrays a 16 seated portrait of Patsy Mink next to an 17 image of the Capitol Building. 18 additional inscription is "Equity In 19 Education." 20 preference of the family liaison as well as 21 the formal recommendation by the U.S. The This design is the first www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 99 1 Commission of Fine Arts. 2 THE CHAIR: Thank you so much. 3 From the Committee, are there any 4 technical or legal questions that you would 5 like to pose now? 6 Recognizing Art. 7 MR. BERNSTEIN: 8 Bernstein with a technical question. 9 This is Art I noticed on Design 2 there are 10 dots separating the wording around the edge 11 of the coin. 12 where there are even more words around the 13 edge of the coin, there are no dots, which, 14 to me, made it a little hard to distinguish 15 between the different phrases. 16 17 And when we look at Reverse 5, Is there a reason or philosophy behind when dots are used and not used? 18 MR. MENNA: This is Joe Menna. 19 The use of delimiters is artistic 20 discretion or the artist's choice. 21 suggest them sometimes. We can But, you know, I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 100 1 won't talk about what the Committee can or 2 can't do. 3 We're always open to suggestions 4 for stuff like that. 5 than putting a dot in there. 6 DR. VAN ALFEN: 7 Alfen. 8 about Number 5. 9 There's no easier fix This is Peter van I also have a technical question The inclusion of the watch on her 10 wrist, at quarter-size scale, this is 11 essentially just going to be a line with 12 very little detail; is that correct? 13 it be possible to see that this is actually 14 a watch or more of a bracelet, or? Will 15 MR. MENNA: This is Joe Menna. 16 You know, basically, you would 17 have to -- the wristband and the rectangle 18 of the watch itself, it's going to read -- 19 it can't read any more -- it'll read, but 20 it's going to read like -- you're not going 21 to see dials, you know. I don't mean that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 101 1 sarcastically. 2 3 MS. STAFFORD: Stafford. 4 5 This is April The watch was a specific request by the family to add into the portrait. 6 DR. VAN ALFEN: 7 MR. MENNA: 8 Like, you see her wedding ring. 9 This is Joe again. MS. STAFFORD: The wedding ring as well. 12 DR. VAN ALFEN: 13 THE CHAIR: 14 DR. FULLER: 15 Right. Harcourt? This is Harcourt Fuller. 16 Can we go back to, let's say, 1 17 and 2? 18 Greg and possibly Joe. 19 Thank you. You know, you'll see it a little bit. 10 11 Okay. I have a question. I think it's for I remember we had a -- let's see. 20 I want to -- I remember we had a discussion 21 about the portrayal of religious symbols on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 102 1 coins. 2 making a comment about religion. 3 do see what might be interpreted as crosses 4 there. 5 And let me preface this: MR. WEINMAN: I am not However, I I think this is 6 meant to not be a cross but rather female. 7 This is the symbol for female. 8 didn't evaluate it as a religious symbol 9 because, you're correct, we have -- when it But we 10 comes to religious symbols, we tend to be 11 careful about how they're portrayed unless 12 it is integral to the wearer, for example 13 the device itself. 14 So, if these were meant to be 15 crosses, that's something -- we would have 16 done a different evaluation of this. 17 didn't -- from a legal standpoint, we didn't 18 look at these as crosses. 19 as the symbol for female. 20 21 DR. FULLER: But we We looked at them And if I may, I know that those are symbols for female, but I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 103 1 2 wanted to be -MR. WEINMAN: But if you're 3 concerned about that, that's certainly 4 something to raise. 5 6 7 DR. FULLER: Yes. So, I just wanted to clarify. THE CHAIR: All right. Thank you. Are there any further 8 questions from the Committee regarding legal 9 or technical matters? 10 (No Response.) 11 12 CONSIDERATION THE CHAIR: Not hearing any 13 further, then let us begin our 14 consideration. 15 Again, as a friendly reminder, 16 let's keep our comments as much as we can to 17 five minutes or less. 18 have any further questions, please 19 understand that we will be able to come back 20 to those questions a little later. 21 Additionally, if you For the benefit of the Court www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 104 1 Reporter and for those calling in, I ask 2 that you state your name when you begin 3 speaking. 4 So, let us begin with our 5 considerations this time with Mike Moran 6 starting off. 7 8 MR. MORAN: to get you. 9 (Laughter.) 10 11 Lawrence, I'm going MR. MORAN: Putting out fires right now. 12 I really concur with the Number 13 5. I think it's excellent and a good 14 choice, and I'd be quite happy with it. 15 THE CHAIR: 16 Sam Gill? 17 MR. GILL: 18 Thank you so much. Thank you, Dr. Brown. This is Sam Gill. 19 I remember Patsy Mink here in 20 Washington years ago, and she was just a 21 lovely woman. And I'm sure all of us know www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 105 1 families with girls, young girls, who are 2 coming along, going to college, and get to 3 play sports just like the boys do, which is 4 just a really fine thing. 5 I like Number 5 very much. I 6 think that 1 and 2 and maybe 3 and 4 might 7 be a little too busy for a quarter size. 8 And I think Number 5 captures her just 9 perfectly. 10 Thank you, sir. 11 THE CHAIR: 12 Let's turn now to Peter. 13 DR. VAN ALFEN: 14 Brown. 15 Thank you. Thank you, Dr. This is Peter van Alfen. I am very happy to support Number 16 5. 17 elegant portrayal and design. 18 negative space. 19 the elegance of it. 20 21 I think that this is a strong, simple, I do like the It just adds, I think, to So, I'll go with Number 5. you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Thank CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 106 1 THE CHAIR: 2 Let's turn back to Harcourt. 3 DR. FULLER: 4 This is Harcourt Fuller. 5 Number 5. 6 THE CHAIR: 7 MR. TUCKER: 8 Thank you so much. Brown. Next, Mr. Tucker? Thank you, Dr. This is Dennis Tucker. 9 And hello to Ms. Mink. It's nice 10 to see you. 11 and like your mother, she's a beautiful 12 soul. 13 My daughter is Asian American, I always like to see Asian 14 American women on U.S. coins. 15 said something yesterday: 16 can help lead to inclusion. 17 the back of my mind as I looked at these 18 designs. 19 Dr. Fuller Representation And that was in I actually like Number 4 better 20 than Number 5 for a couple reasons. 21 they're both very -- they're excellent www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I think CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 107 1 designs and both of them would make nice 2 coins. 3 Number 4 is a little more active, 4 whereas Number 5 is a little more static. 5 In Number 4, she's -- it looks like she's 6 about to sign that Title IX. 7 Number 4 uses the specific language of the 8 Title IX Act, "Equal Opportunity In 9 Education." 10 And also, I felt that that was a small advantage over Number 5. 11 So, my preference is for Number 12 4, but I like all of the portraits, and I 13 like both 4 and 5 as designs. 14 So, thank you. 15 THE CHAIR: 16 Let's turn now to John Saunders. 17 MR. SAUNDERS: 18 conclude kind of the same things as 19 everybody else has said. 20 best. 21 little busy. Thank you. I'm going to just I like Number 5 Number 4 is not bad. I think it's a Number 5 is more simple, so I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 108 1 like that in terms of design. 2 I too have Asian American 3 children, or half Asian American, so it's a 4 particular honor to have Ms. Mink on the 5 coin here. 6 And the other thing I would 7 comment on is what was brought up about the 8 dots between the factors of the legend. 9 Particularly on a lot of European coins, 10 sometimes the dots are very important. 11 often indicate the mint that it was made at 12 when the coin was made at multiple mints or 13 other things of significance. 14 They And I do like -- I'd like to add 15 that I think adding dots to Design 5 would 16 make it a bit better. 17 fine the way it is, but I'm going to take 18 the priority -- the prerogative of meddling 19 with the design, and so I'm going to suggest 20 that we add dots between the legends to kind 21 of separate them. I mean, it's just www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 109 1 THE CHAIR: 2 Brown. 3 terminology. This is Lawrence We have a clarification for the 4 MR. MENNA: This is Joe Menna. 5 For clarification for the record, 6 internally -- again, not trying to sound 7 pedantic or patronizing -- we call them 8 delimiters. 9 So, formally, just -- we know 10 they're dots, but delimiters, just, you 11 know. 12 13 MALE SPEAKER: dashes. They could be Or stars. 14 MR. MENNA: -- term is often used 15 among coin collectors, but this is -- it is 16 a different one than what you guys use -- 17 MR. WEINMAN: 18 clarification. 19 requested? 20 21 That's a point of Specifically, dots are MR. SAUNDERS: Any marks to indicate the change would be fine. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I mean, CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 110 1 if you want to use a small diamond or 2 something else, a dot is -- I'll defer to 3 Joe's terminology here. 4 it open. That way, it leaves 5 THE CHAIR: 6 Let's turn now to Dean. 7 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 8 9 Kotlowski. Thank you so much. This is Dean Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Oh dear, oh my. I thought all 10 five of these were fine. 11 least inspired by was Number 5. 12 Number 5 is fine. 13 I would be perfectly happy of it. 14 The one that I was I think I think it's acceptable. It reminds me of a couple of 15 images of Lyndon Johnson. One is his 16 portrait in the National Portrait Gallery, 17 and the other is his image on the stamp that 18 was issued after his death that showed the 19 Capitol Building in the background and him 20 in the foreground. 21 of Congress. He was very much a man And I think this messaging is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 111 1 that Patsy Takemoto Mink was very much a 2 woman of Congress, and I think that's a 3 very, very good message. 4 But I liked the other designs 5 better. Like Dennis, I like Number 4 6 better. I don't think that this is too 7 busy. 8 essential story: 9 Congress, a member of Congress, an important 10 member of Congress, but it gives you an idea 11 of what she did specifically. I think that this gives a lot of the 12 that she was a person of And of course, she played a major 13 role in Congress in passing Title IX. 14 Richard Nixon signed it in 1972, it's very 15 interesting to note. 16 I like the "25 Cents." But I want to focus on 1, 2, and 17 2A. 18 all busy and that they're too busy for a 19 quarter. 20 am, but I want to be contrarian here. 21 I bet I'm going to hear that these are And I'm not persuaded. Well, I All of these designs are fun and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 112 1 engaging in the best sense of those words. 2 I think what you've got here is the sense of 3 opportunities opening to women done in a 4 very, very creative and very artistic way, 5 all of them. 6 portrait is larger in 2 and 2A, and I think 7 that that's very striking. 8 9 I mean, she's smiling. The And then I was thinking as we were going through, you know, what is it I 10 particularly like about this? 11 period of the Space Age, and there's 12 something Space Age about this. 13 as if these are planets in some sort of 14 solar system, all of these images and this 15 iconography, and it's moving round and 16 round. 17 1970s were ready to blast off into a new 18 future. 19 20 21 This is the It's almost And it's almost like women in the And so, 1, 2, and 2A I was just very, very impressed by. Thank you very much, Mr. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 113 1 Chairman. 2 3 THE CHAIR: Thank you so much for your thoughtful comments. 4 Let's turn now to Robin. 5 MS. SALMON: 6 7 Salmon. This is Robin Thank you, Mr. Chair. I also was torn a lot with this 8 particular coin design. The first two were 9 the ones that grabbed me instantly for all 10 of the reasons that others have said: the 11 symbolism, the fact that all of these areas 12 were something that Patsy Takemoto Mink was 13 involved in, believed in and supported. 14 And I also don't necessarily 15 think that it's too busy either. I agree 16 with Dean on that. And if a 17 teacher were using these coins in the 18 classroom, the symbolism on the coins is 19 what tells the story, not so much the 20 portrait of the individual, although the 21 portrait is very important. It's unique. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 114 1 So, with Number 4 and Number 5, 2 those are also very good designs. Number 4 3 I think I might lean a little more toward 4 than Number 5, although 5 is a very 5 beautiful, elegant depiction of the woman, 6 who she was, and what she stood for. 7 "Equity In Education" lettering beneath her 8 is -- says it all, along with the Capitol. The 9 I have to admit I'm confused 10 again this time, and I'll have to think 11 about it a bit more. 12 viable arguments for each of these. But all of you present 13 Thank you. 14 THE CHAIR: 15 Let's turn now to Art. 16 MR. BERNSTEIN: 17 18 Thank you so much. This is Art Bernstein. And I want to use the word that 19 Robin used a moment ago. 20 describes both Designs 4 and 5. 21 "Elegant" to me With Design 4, I appreciated the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 115 1 specific mention of Title IX. 2 that was an important element to that 3 design. 4 I thought I also like Design 5 because of 5 its elegance. And if we end up going with 6 Design 5, John and I both agree that 7 delimiters should be used around the wording 8 on the edge of the coin. 9 Thank you. 10 THE CHAIR: 11 This is Lawrence Brown, and I too Thank you so much. 12 are torn by the beauty of the spectrum of 13 options that we have in front of us. 14 would like also to tell Joe and Mike we 15 thank you for giving us this opportunity but 16 also this challenge. 17 And I I must confess that, initially, 18 Designs 2 and 2A, I too thought they were a 19 bit busy. 20 colleagues, I must say I've now decided that 21 that should not be a basis for me to not But hearing comments from our www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 116 1 consider them because of the imagery that's 2 associated with that. 3 Design 4, I love the inscription. 4 I think that, to me, that was most valuable, 5 particularly the design element that has the 6 title of the law that's in her hand. 7 makes it very positive. 8 9 That But I must also say that I was also persuaded by the negative spaces in 10 Design 5. 11 standpoint of being able to see that, but 12 although I would also agree with the 13 delimiters because there needs to be 14 something for which there can be pauses 15 between reading the items that are on that 16 design. 17 That makes it, at least from the So, I am going to then pause for 18 a couple seconds before I have to vote. 19 like all of us, I want to make sure that we 20 give an opportunity for Ms. Mink to be able 21 to comment based on what she has heard www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 But CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 117 1 because this is extremely valuable to us as 2 we make important decisions going forward. 3 4 MS. MINK: for me to say something? 5 6 Was that an invitation THE CHAIR: Yes, ma'am. If you choose to. 7 MS. MINK: Yeah, well, no, I 8 mean, as I, I think, hinted that we're sort 9 of torn between 4 and 5. 10 We like them both. But I agree with everybody who 11 said Number 4 has energy, which was part of 12 her persona and so it's nice to see 13 represented in that design. 14 the elegance and the simplicity that 15 conveys -- well, focuses the mind on the 16 nature of her work and the nature of her 17 accomplishment in the educational equity 18 arena. 19 Number 4 has The reasons we didn't lean 20 towards the first two designs have to do 21 with clutter in part but also because www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 118 1 neither of them really inform the person 2 with the coin in their hand who she is or 3 what she did or why she's being honored. 4 You know, we sort of thought it 5 was important to have the Capitol in the 6 background as a hint to the viewer, the 7 holder of the coin, that she had something 8 to do with legislation and public policy and 9 decision-making, whereas in the designs with 10 the sort of multiple balls in the air, it 11 wasn't clear whether it was supposed to 12 imply she was an athlete or was she -- you 13 know, did she go to school, was she a coach. 14 You know, there's nothing self-explanatory 15 or nothing directive about the coin in that 16 regard, so. 17 THE CHAIR: Thank you so much. 18 Let me turn to our Engraving 19 Office so they can give us any further 20 guidance that they may have that may very 21 well be valuable to our consideration. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 119 1 2 MR. MENNA: This is Joe Menna. Greg, stop me if this is out of line. 3 I'm not advocating for one design 4 or another, but the two designs that 5 everyone is in favor of are very much the 6 same design told two different ways, as you 7 obviously see, one more dynamic, one more 8 stoic. 9 So, I think, just symbolically 10 speaking, both artistically, the 11 representation of the Capitol is there. 12 This first one, from just an artistic, 13 symbolic perspective, is giving you the 14 dynamic story of legislating. 15 one seems to me to -- because of the 16 rectilinear, the way she's planted on the 17 table, her statesperson-like -- not like. 18 Her statesperson presence. 19 And the other They're just two different 20 versions of the same story, active and feet 21 on the -- like, this -- yeah, that would be www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 120 1 like the portrait you might see in her 2 office, right? 3 the White House if she was president, that 4 kind of thing. 5 that's what it looks like to me. 6 better. Like the painting of her in So, just artistic speaking, 7 THE CHAIR: 8 MR. TUCKER: 9 Not one I recognize Dennis. Thank you, Dr. Brown. 10 I will keep this brief, but I 11 would just like to make as strong a case as 12 I can for Number 4. 13 that it is more active, more dynamic, as Ms. 14 Mink said. 15 And I would just repeat To me, it's important that it 16 uses the specific language of the Title IX 17 act, which was renamed in her honor the 18 Equal Opportunity in Education Act. 19 So, we sometimes talk about 20 someone picking up a coin, being intrigued 21 by it, but then having to look elsewhere, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 121 1 online or somewhere else, to find more 2 information. 3 "Equal Opportunity in Education" and this 4 will come up. 5 see on the paperwork there. 6 They can Google the words Title IX as well, which we Also, the use of the words "25 7 Cents" rather than "Quarter Dollar" affords 8 a better balance in that lettering. 9 not as cramped, and it avoids having to put It's 10 in delimiters to make the -- to allow the 11 inscriptions to breathe. 12 I just think Number 4 is a much 13 stronger design than Number 5, which is 14 itself a strong design, so. 15 THE CHAIR: Thank you so much. 16 This is Dr. Brown again. And I want to 17 remind us that as much as we want to make 18 sure that this is a sufficient amount 19 telling of the story about how we came to 20 this decision, I also want to remind us 21 about making sure that we are efficient and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 122 1 with a rhythm. 2 Dean. 3 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 4 Chairman. 5 Thank you, Mr. This is Dean Kotlowski. We've had the debate before 6 between "Quarter Dollar" and "25 Cents." 7 think I made the point with one of the 8 American Women Quarters that in this case 9 it's okay to break rules. I think it's 10 almost required to do something a little 11 different, and I like the "25 Cents." 12 Thank you. 13 THE CHAIR: 14 April, did you want to offer 15 I Thank you. anything? 16 MS. STAFFORD: No, sir. 17 THE CHAIR: 18 Then, based on that, let us Thank you. 19 then -- hearing no further, let's make sure 20 that we start the voting. 21 have your scoresheets in front of you. You all should www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Mike CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 123 1 and Robin, you should have yours that you 2 can send electronically. 3 4 Let's take a 10-minute recess to vote. 5 (Brief Recess.) 6 SCORING RESULTS 7 THE CHAIR: We're back. I 8 recognize Greg Weinman, Counsel to the CCAC, 9 to present the results of the scoring. 10 MR. WEINMAN: Once again, out of 11 a possible score of 30, Design Number 1 12 received 5. 13 Design Number 2 received 6. 14 Design 2A received 6. 15 Design Number 4 received 19. 16 Design Number 5 received 19. 17 PARTICIPANTS: 18 THE CHAIR: 19 Ooh. Are there any motions from any of the Committee members? 20 MALE SPEAKER: Wow. 21 MALE SPEAKER: Hmm. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 124 1 (Laughter.) 2 THE CHAIR: 3 MR. WEINMAN: Dennis? As a point of 4 order, you can recommend two. 5 have to -- so, if you want to have a 6 discussion about this, of course. 7 can always say that you recommend them 8 equally. With that in mind, please go ahead, Dr. Brown. 11 12 But you It is your prerogative. 9 10 You don't MR. TUCKER: Dr. Brown, this is Dennis Tucker. 13 I would like to hear more 14 discussion. 15 who voted for 5 why they prefer 5. 16 more work. 17 moved around and/or delimiters added. 18 not as vibrant. 19 specific language of Title IX. 20 21 I would love to hear from those 5 needs Either the lettering has to be It's It does not include the I'm curious to hear why people voted for 5. Because I really feel that 4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 125 1 is much stronger on many points. 2 THE CHAIR: 3 DR. FULLER: 4 This is Harcourt Greg, can I move my votes to 4? Is that -- 7 8 Harcourt? Fuller. 5 6 Okay. MR. WEINMAN: Could you -- I mean -- 9 DR. FULLER: 10 MR. WEINMAN: So that -My recommendation 11 would be to have a discussion and revote if 12 there's a motion to revote, I think. 13 But, I mean, there were, 14 obviously -- one, two, three, four -- five 15 members who gave 5 their highest score, so 16 they probably should speak to that. 17 THE CHAIR: Point of 18 clarification, though, Greg. 19 sure. 20 21 I want to make So that we can either have a revote -- or a motion to revote and then www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 126 1 revote -- 2 MR. WEINMAN: Or just somebody 3 make -- have a discussion and make a motion 4 for one of the designs. 5 THE CHAIR: Okay. 6 Let's go to Peter. 7 DR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you. As one of the 8 people who did give 5 more points than 9 Number 4, I'm happy to address that. I do 10 find 5 to be a much more elegant and more 11 simple design that I think on quarter size 12 will work better than Reverse 4. 13 I do find 4 to be a little more 14 cluttered. 15 dynamism and energy in that design, I do 16 prefer 5 just simply because I do think it 17 would work better on a quarter scale. 18 like the I guess you could say quietness and 19 elegance and simplicity of 5. 20 21 Even though there is some I do Also, I'm not a fan of the way that, in Number 4, the way the name "Patsy www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 127 1 Takemoto Mink," the typography in that 2 design. 3 typeface, if that is the proper word for it. 4 So, again, I'm much more in favor I don't particularly like that 5 of 5, which I believe also is the family's 6 preference, as well as the CFA's preference, 7 if I'm not mistaken, and so would, you know, 8 again advocate for 5 over 4. 9 THE CHAIR: Thank you so much. 10 Let's go to Mike Moran. 11 MR. MORAN: 12 I think we've discussed this Thank you, Dr. Brown. 13 enough. I think we all have our opinions. 14 Let's poll the membership and whichever one 15 comes up how the 11 or 10 of us that are 16 there, so be it. 17 THE CHAIR: Dean? 18 DR. KOTLOWSKI: Mr. Chairman, I 19 think John had his hand up first. 20 may be one of the people who voted for 5. 21 didn't, but I wanted to make a comment after www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And you I CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 128 1 all of the people who voted -- a brief 2 comment after John. 3 4 MR. SAUNDERS: John Saunders here. 5 I was just going to say that 6 Peter said everything that I was thinking 7 probably better than I could say it, so I'm 8 seconding his discussion points. 9 like 5 best. 10 THE CHAIR: 11 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 12 But I did Dean? Mr. Chairman, this is Dean Kotlowski speaking to everyone. 13 I have in my hand the Red Book. 14 And what Number 4 reminds me of is the 15 George Washington Crossing the Delaware 16 quarter. 17 it's a little busy for a quarter. 18 know when we did this design. And that is very active. Maybe I don't 19 But he's crossing the Delaware 20 and leading America into a better future, 21 and I see Patsy Mink and Title IX as leading www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 129 1 America into a much better future. And I 2 think Number 4 dynamically captures that 3 sentiment very much parallel to the George 4 Washington quarter. 5 THE CHAIR: Thank you so much. 6 Joe, if you and Mike, you guys 7 may want to offer some information, your 8 perspective about the extent to which 4 and 9 5 will be reflected in the quarter. 10 MR. MENNA: This is Joe Menna. 12 THE CHAIR: Please. 13 MR. MENNA: Much like the Pauli 11 If I may? 14 Murray design, while the succeeding design 15 with Ms. Mink -- Congresswoman Mink's elbows 16 on the table would present something that 17 would look really good perhaps on a 18 Congressional Gold Medal. 19 If the interest of the Committee, 20 if the interest of the family, is to engage 21 a dynamic image on a coin that will be www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 130 1 readable, eminently readable at scale but 2 yet more dynamic and more likely to capture 3 people's attention when they see it at arm's 4 length, when they see it in their change 5 that they get at the counter, I think -- I'm 6 not saying it's a better design. 7 is a more dynamic and eye-catching design. Number 4 8 What the intent is of the family 9 and of the program, I'm not editorializing. 10 But just visually, this is all -- diagonals 11 tend to be more dynamic. 12 she's -- I'm not talking about literals. 13 I'm talking about just the formal 14 understructure of this coin. 15 of diagonals, there's a lot of motion, 16 there's a lot of activity visually. 17 It's not because There's a lot The other one, very static, a lot 18 of gravitas, and like I said, like a 19 Congressional Gold Medal or presidential 20 portrait. 21 So, depending on what the intent www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 131 1 is for the family in terms of what's going 2 to visually attract the most attention and 3 still be of the utmost artistic quality and 4 up to absolute United States Mint standards, 5 it's more a question of in what way does the 6 family want to draw visual attention to -- 7 does the daughter of Ms. Mink want to -- 8 does Ms. Mink want to draw attention to her 9 mother, if that makes sense. 10 THE CHAIR: 11 Dennis? 12 13 Thank you. MOTIONS AND VOTE MR. TUCKER: Dr. Brown, having 14 heard the dialog of the Committee and with 15 that feedback from Joe Menna, I would like 16 to move that the Committee recommend to the 17 Secretary of the Treasury Design 4. 18 19 20 21 THE CHAIR: this motion? Is there a second for I see Dean. Is there discussion on the motion on the table? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 132 1 (No Response.) 2 THE CHAIR: Hearing none, all 3 those in favor of the motion, signify by 4 saying "aye." 5 (Chorus of "aye.") 6 THE CHAIR: 7 Please forgive me. 8 forgive me. 9 10 All those opposed? Robin and Mike, please Can you share with us how -MR. WEINMAN: You might want to do a roll-call vote. 11 THE CHAIR: So, I think that in 12 order to make sure we get this correct, 13 we're going to do a roll-call vote. 14 MR. WEINMAN: 15 THE CHAIR: 16 to -- is to vote for 4. 17 on the table. 18 MR. WEINMAN: 19 THE CHAIR: 20 21 Say "4" or "5." So, we'd like you That's the motion Yes or no on 4. Yes or no that you're in favor -MR. WEINMAN: "Yay" or "nay." www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 133 1 THE CHAIR: 2 Okay. 3 "Yay" or "nay." So, let's start with Dennis? 4 MR. TUCKER: 5 THE CHAIR: 6 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 7 THE CHAIR: 8 DR. FULLER: 9 THE CHAIR: 10 11 MR. GILL: Yes. Okay. Yes. Sam? No, but I like 4 very much and be happy if we end up with 4. THE CHAIR: 13 MR. SAUNDERS: 14 my opinion best. 15 I'm okay with 4 too. 16 I think Sam said I still like 5 better, but Is that a "yes" or a "no"? THE CHAIR: Is that a "yes" or "no"? 20 21 John? MR. WEINMAN: 18 19 Yes. Harcourt? 12 17 Dean? MR. SAUNDERS: I guess it's a "no." www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 134 1 THE CHAIR: 2 DR. VAN ALFEN: 3 THE CHAIR: 4 MR. BERNSTEIN: 5 THE CHAIR: 6 MS. SALMON: 7 THE CHAIR: Mike? 8 MR. MORAN: No. 9 THE CHAIR: The Chair is going to 10 Okay. Peter? No. Art? No. Robin? Yes. abstain on this one. 11 (Laughter.) 12 THE CHAIR: Because I sense that 13 this motion is going to be in difficulty. 14 So, this motion fails. 15 (Motion Failed.) 16 DR. VAN ALFEN: 17 Dr. Brown, this is Peter van Alfen. 18 Would it be appropriate at this 19 point to ask Ms. Mink again if she has any 20 comments at this stage? 21 THE CHAIR: I think that is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 135 1 indeed appropriate. 2 Ms. Mink, we're turning to you 3 again based on you having witnessed what you 4 have. 5 offer to the Committee that might be 6 helpful? Do you have anything you want to 7 8 MS. MINK: Well, I sort of hoped that I had passed the buck to you all. 9 (Laughter.) 10 MS. MINK: You know, truth be 11 told, in the whole sequence of reviewing the 12 designs, et cetera, our initial choice was 13 Number 4. 14 Number 5 that brought it to its current 15 state and we found it so striking both 16 because it's a better representation of her 17 face and because it's a pose or a physical 18 position that is very familiar to people who 19 worked with her like in an office or to me 20 as a daughter and whatever. 21 And then revisions were done to So, it was that that kind of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 136 1 spoke to us all of a sudden when that 2 particular design was revised. 3 not diminish our love for Number 4. But it did 4 Number 4, we love the energy. 5 like that she's smiling, which she's not 6 doing in Number 5. 7 So, I don't know if that helps 8 anybody. 9 going to take a position. I'm not casting a vote, so I'm not But, you know, 10 we'd be happy with either one. 11 the view that Number 5 is a little too 12 static. 13 simplicity is part of its elegance. So, there you go. 15 THE CHAIR: 17 I understand I also understand the view that the 14 16 We Thank you so much for your comments. And as the Chair, I just would 18 like to offer for consideration by the 19 Committee members the following: 20 The stronger the recommendation 21 that we have, it would seem to me the more www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 137 1 likely to be embraced. 2 that we, as much as we possibly can, have a 3 clear and unequivocal recommendation. 4 So, it's important So, you will notice that I did 5 not take sides 4 or 5. But I am suggesting 6 that we really need to be, as much as we 7 can -- if we end up saying to the Secretary, 8 "You can choose 4 or 5," so be it. 9 same time, I would probably not recommend At the 10 that we take that stance. 11 make sure this is a realistic 12 recommendation -- reflection, rather, of the 13 CCAC. 14 15 Let's go Harcourt and then back to Art. 16 17 18 But we do need to DR. FULLER: This is Harcourt Fuller. In light of the fact that we are 19 split right down the middle on this, and I 20 take it that Ms. Mink would be happy with 21 either choice, I would like to suggest that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 138 1 in this case it would appear to be 2 appropriate if the Chair would exercise his 3 right to be a tiebreaker. 4 whatever -- 5 (Laughter.) 6 DR. FULLER: And then And then whatever he 7 decides, we understand that, I believe I'm 8 not speaking out of turn, that the liaison 9 would be happy with that choice, and that we 10 should all throw our support behind the 11 tiebreaker's vote. 12 Thank you. 13 MR. WEINMAN: 14 THE CHAIR: Was that a motion? Not quite. It could 15 be. I didn't want to have that represent a 16 motion. 17 recognize it as one. 18 discussion prior to making a motion. That's the reason why I didn't 19 20 21 We're still in So, I was going to do Art and then Dean. MR. BERNSTEIN: Well, Mr. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 139 1 Chairman, I was going to make a motion -- 2 (Laughter.) 3 MR. BERNSTEIN: 4 along. But I defer to your request. 5 THE CHAIR: 6 Dean? 7 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 8 -- moving this Chairman. 9 Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Dean Kotlowski. After listening to Ms. Mink, 10 rather than putting it, you know, to the 11 Chair, to be very kind to the Chair, just 12 simply ask the other members of the 13 Committee, before we do any kind of revote 14 or any additional motion, has any member of 15 the Committee who maybe voted for Number 5 16 been moved in any way to change their vote? 17 Because we have done that in the past. 18 People have just said, "Oh, I want to change 19 my vote." 20 21 And again, I know that seems to be putting pressure on Number 5s. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I can CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 140 1 also say for Number 4s as well if anybody 2 felt they wanted to switch their vote at 3 this point. 4 5 THE CHAIR: To avoid confusion, let's do one at a time, if I may suggest. 6 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 7 THE CHAIR: Okay. Yeah. So, I would like to 8 suggest, for those who voted for Number 5, 9 do you want to reconsider or do you maintain 10 your position? 11 Okay. 12 MR. SAUNDERS: 13 Mr. Saunders? I have a comment rather than a change of vote. 14 THE CHAIR: 15 MR. SAUNDERS: 16 there's anything -- well, we have a 17 preference -- I like making it unanimous. 18 In fact, I made a motion to make it 19 unanimous for an earlier choice. 20 21 Please. I don't think But if we really are fairly divided -- and, again, I'm happy with either www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 141 1 design. 2 either one -- I don't think there's anything 3 wrong with us reporting that we like both of 4 these designs and it's equally well. 5 though maybe that diminishes our role in 6 here, but then we let those people decide 7 which, 4 or 5, it is. 8 9 I like 5 better, but I'm happy with But I don't think there's anything wrong with us saying, "We're 10 divided on this one. 11 two designs best." 12 13 Even THE CHAIR: We like both, these Thank you so much for your comment. 14 On the basis of that comment, 15 unless anyone has anything else to offer 16 that has not been already articulated, I 17 think we should consider a motion. 18 John? 19 MR. SAUNDERS: I will make a 20 motion that we recommend 4 and 5, that we 21 like both of these very well, and we leave www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 142 1 it at that. 2 3 THE CHAIR: that motion? 4 5 6 7 Is there a second on DR. VAN ALFEN: Peter van Alfen. Second. THE CHAIR: Okay. Any further discussion on the motion on the table? 8 (No Response.) 9 THE CHAIR: Hearing none, all 10 those in favor of the motion on the table, 11 signify by saying "aye." 12 (Chorus of "aye.") 13 THE CHAIR: Anyone opposed, 14 signify by saying "nay." 15 PARTICIPANTS: 16 MR. WEINMAN: 17 THE CHAIR: 18 (Motion Carried.) 19 THE CHAIR: Nay. Three nays. The motion carries. Ms. Mink, we're going 20 to really thank you. Ms. Mink, feel free 21 that the next time you come before the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 143 1 Committee, feel free to be able to be 2 willing to offer your opinion decisively. 3 (Laughter.) 4 THE CHAIR: 5 MS. MINK: 6 You all are the role models, right, for decisive. 7 (Laughter.) 8 THE CHAIR: 9 We'd be happy to. Thank you so much for all that you and your relative have done for 10 this country. Thank you for continuing your 11 efforts at being able to allow us to tell 12 the story about your relative. 13 important. 14 day. Have a great remainder of the 15 MS. MINK: 16 MR. WEINMAN: 17 MR. BERNSTEIN: 18 THE CHAIR: 19 MR. BERNSTEIN: 20 21 This is so Thank you very much. Thank you. Mr. Chairman? Please. This is Art Bernstein. Since we didn't make a specific www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 144 1 recommendation, I'm wondering what happened 2 to our idea with regard to delimiters on 3 Number 5. 4 Number 5, I wanted to -- 5 6 MR. WEINMAN: THE CHAIR: Please. Chair recognizes -- 9 10 That would be a separate motion. 7 8 If the Secretary were going to do MR. BERNSTEIN: This is Art Bernstein. 11 I wish to move that, should 12 Design 5 be the choice of the Secretary, we 13 recommend that delimiters be used on the 14 reverse. 15 THE CHAIR: 16 MR. SAUNDERS: 17 THE CHAIR: 18 Is there any discussion on the 19 Is there a second? Me. John Saunders second. motion? 20 (No Response.) 21 THE CHAIR: Hearing none, all www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 145 1 those in favor, "aye"? 2 (Chorus of "aye.") 3 THE CHAIR: 4 MALE SPEAKER: 5 THE CHAIR: 6 one abstention. 7 8 Opposed, "nay"? Abstain. Any abstentions? Okay. MR. MENNA: Just an off-the-record thing to John's point -- 9 THE CHAIR: Speak up. 10 MR. MENNA: Oh, this is Joe 11 Got Menna. 12 Kind of an -- circle would be the 13 logical delimiter. 14 semantic -- bringing up a semantic thing for 15 future reference. 16 17 MALE SPEAKER: 20 21 I love using the word "delimiter." 18 19 I was just making a MR. MENNA: That's what we use in THE CHAIR: So, we'll leave that the inside. to the discretion of the Mint. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 146 1 So, the motion carries. 2 (Motion Carried.) 3 MR. WEINMAN: And point of 4 clarification for the esteemed Chief 5 Engraver, when we are literally being 6 transcribed, everything here is on the 7 record. 8 MR. MENNA: 9 (Laughter.) 10 11 MALE SPEAKER: Does that mean if I -- never mind. 12 (Laughter.) 13 THE CHAIR: 14 No, I know. Moving right along. Okay. 15 2024 AMERICAN WOMEN QUARTER: 16 THE CHAIR: ZITKALA-SA The fourth item today 17 for review is the reverse candidate designs 18 for the 2024 American Women Quarter honoring 19 Zitkala-Sa. 20 the support of the Office of Design 21 Management. And we're thankful that we have April Stafford will in fact www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 147 1 2 3 4 take us through this process. REPORT MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. This is April Stafford. 5 Some background on this quarter. 6 Zitkala-Sa, meaning Red Bird, also known as 7 Gertrude Simmons, left her home on the 8 Yankton Sioux Reservation in South Dakota at 9 age 8 to attend a boarding school run by 10 White missionaries where her Native way of 11 life was prohibited. 12 As an adult, Zitkala-Sa 13 appreciated her education but felt torn 14 between her two worlds. 15 annihilation of Indigenous culture and 16 questioned why it was necessary to give up 17 one's Native culture and traditions in order 18 to receive western education. 19 She opposed the She began writing about her 20 personal experiences, along with the values 21 learned from her mother. She also collected www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 148 1 Native stories, translated them into English 2 and Latin, and eventually published them. 3 Her writing helped in reconnecting to her 4 Native heritage as well as preserve her 5 traditions for posterity. 6 Zitkala-Sa was also a gifted 7 musician and violinist who collaborated on 8 what is considered the first known American 9 Indian opera. Premiering in Utah in 1913, 10 the "Sun Dance" opera was centered on the 11 Sun Dance, a sacred ceremonial dance that 12 was outlawed by the U.S. Government at the 13 time. 14 Throughout her life, Zitkala-Sa 15 remained an outspoken advocate, activist, 16 and author for American Indian rights. 17 founded the National Council of American 18 Indians with her husband, Raymond T. Bonnin, 19 to advocate on issues including education, 20 economics, employment, health, religion, and 21 the right to vote. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 She CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 149 1 Her work directly led to the 2 passage of the Indian Citizenship Act of 3 1924, which granted U.S. citizenship to all 4 non-citizen Indians born within the 5 territorial limits of the United States. 6 Notably, the act did not require American 7 Indians to give up their tribal citizenship 8 in order to become U.S. citizens, which 9 allowed them to preserve their tribal 10 identity and rights to communal tribal 11 property. 12 Her writing and advocacy 13 continued to have an impact long after her 14 death in 1938. 15 As noted, we have family 16 representatives with us. 17 call on Ms. Ogle or Mr. Bonnin, would either 18 of you like to say a few words to the 19 Committee? 20 21 MS. OGLE: So, if I could Yes. Hi. Holly, and Zitkala-Sa was my www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 My name is CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 150 1 great-grandmother. 2 And first, I want to say we're 3 really honored that a quarter would be 4 fashioned after her. 5 family is. Very proud, the whole And I just wanted to thank you. 6 MS. STAFFORD: 7 Mr. Bonnin? 8 MR. BONNIN: 9 is Mark Bonnin. Thank you so much. Yeah. Hi. My name Holly is my aunt. 10 Zitkala-Sa was my great-great-grandmother, 11 so. 12 Yeah, just a great honor. We're 13 very excited about the entire process and 14 really happy to see this come to fruition. 15 16 MS. STAFFORD: Stafford. 17 18 This is April Thank you so much for being with us today. 19 We'll move to the candidate 20 designs, starting with identifying the 21 preferences of the family as well as the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 151 1 recommendations by the CFA. 2 So, we are looking at Design 3B. 3 This design is the preference of the family 4 liaisons as well as the recommendation by 5 the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts. 6 will give the description as we move through 7 the portfolio. 8 9 And we But first, we'll start with Candidate Design 1. This design depicts a 10 juxtaposition of Zitkala-Sa's two worlds, 11 her Native culture and her missionary 12 education. 13 shape of a violin. 14 feather, triangles form a sun symbol. 15 Her profile is completed by the Behind the eagle Reverse 2 features an 16 interpretation of Zitkala-Sa's two cultures, 17 a sun symbol in the background as she plays 18 the violin. 19 Reverses 3, 3A, and 3B depict 20 Zitkala-Sa with a determined expression 21 holding a book, which represents her www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 152 1 literary interests. 2 stylized sun are in the background. 3 A diamond pattern and a Design 3 includes the additional 4 inscription "Red Bird," the translation of 5 Zitkala-Sa's name. 6 3A includes the additional 7 inscription "Red Bird" as well as a 8 cardinal. 9 And 3B includes the additional 10 inscriptions "Author," "Activist," and 11 "Composer" along with a cardinal. 12 Again, this design is the 13 preference of the family liaisons as well as 14 the recommendation of the CFA. 15 Design 4 portrays Zitkala-Sa with 16 a hopeful expression in front of a stylized 17 sun with additional inscriptions "Author," 18 "Composer," "Activist." 19 Designs 5A and 5B feature 20 Zitkala-Sa with a book and violin, 21 representing writing and music, two of her www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 153 1 passions and forms of advocacy. 2 Designs 6 and 6A depict 3 Zitkala-Sa in front of a stylized sun. 4 additional inscriptions are "Red Bird," 5 "Author," "Composer," and "Activist." 6 Design 6A includes a violin. 7 8 9 10 11 The And that concludes the candidate designs. THE CHAIR: Outstanding. Thank you so much. Are there any technical or legal 12 questions from members of the Committee 13 about this program or the designs that 14 you've just heard? 15 Peter? 16 DR. VAN ALFEN: 17 I do have a question about 3B. Peter van Alfen. 18 The diamond-shaped line that appears across 19 the coin, is that -- does the diamond shape 20 there have any sort of symbolic significance 21 or is this just -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 154 1 MS. STAFFORD: So, our Design 2 Manager, Pam Borer, confirmed by working 3 with the artist as well as checking the 4 source materials for this design that the 5 diamond pattern is tribally inspired. 6 DR. VAN ALFEN: Okay. And as a 7 technical question, how would this be 8 represented: 9 10 in relief or incuse? MR. MENNA: This is Joe Menna. With any coin, we cannot incuse 11 into the field, so it would be raised. 12 Given that the artist has added some tone to 13 it -- from this point I can't really see -- 14 that would likely be represented as a 15 sculpted texture, not a frosted texture, to 16 make it look darker because that's the 17 artist's intent there, it seems. 18 And so, in relief and possibly 19 with texture added. Or possibly done 20 through frosting. 21 but not too -- like, about letter height. But definitely raised, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 155 1 About letter height. 2 3 DR. VAN ALFEN: All right. Thank you. 4 THE CHAIR: Any other questions 5 or comments from members of the Committee 6 regarding legal or technical matters? 7 8 MS. STAFFORD: Mr. Chair, if I may, this is April Stafford. 9 I should have added that 3B is 10 the family's preference specifically for the 11 quality of the likeness as well as the 12 inclusion of the inscriptions that describe 13 her work. 14 THE CHAIR: 15 16 17 Thank you so much. CONSIDERATION THE CHAIR: Let us begin our consideration. 18 I'd like to remind members to 19 please try to keep your comments to five 20 minutes or less. 21 that if there are additional questions, we And again, to remind you www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 156 1 will certainly take them a little later. 2 For the benefit of the Court 3 Reporter and those calling in, I ask that 4 you state your name when you begin speaking. 5 Let us begin with Peter. 6 DR. VAN ALFEN: 7 8 9 Brown. Thank you, Dr. This is Peter van Alfen. I'm happy to support the family's choice of 3B as a preferred design. I would 10 agree that the inclusion of the inscriptions 11 "Author," "Activist," "Composer" is 12 important in order to portray the 13 significance of her contributions. 14 I also find this just to be a 15 very engaging and attractive portrait, so 16 I'm very happy to support the family's 17 choice in this reverse design. 18 So, thank you. 19 THE CHAIR: 20 Next, turning to Harcourt. 21 DR. FULLER: Thank you so much. Thank you, Mr. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 157 1 Chairman. 2 These are all wonderful designs. 3 I'd be happy to support the family's choice 4 of 3B. 5 Thank you. 6 THE CHAIR: 7 MR. TUCKER: 8 9 Brown. Dennis? Thank you, Dr. This is Dennis Tucker. My eye was drawn to Number 1. I 10 think that's a remarkable design. 11 doesn't include the wording that the family 12 prefers, but I just wanted to mention that I 13 think it's a very innovative use of the 14 design elements. 15 It I was also drawn to 5A and 5B. 16 think they're beautiful, and I love the 17 sense of motion with her hair moving a bit 18 and, in 5A, the flight of the bird. 19 I But an activist has to engage, 20 and for me, the eye contact that we see in 21 3, 3A, and 3B directly engages the viewer of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 158 1 this coin, so I'm very happy with 3B. 2 Also, I'm a writer by nature and 3 by profession, so I like to see a book. 4 also like to see things spelled out. 5 we have designs that are very similar, I 6 think sometimes I lean towards the one that 7 kind of gives the viewer a bit more and 8 spells it out, kind of similar to the Patsy 9 Mink design we looked at a few minutes ago, 10 where 4 and 5 were very similar in artistic 11 motif. 12 I When And so, with that equality, you 13 can kind of let the wording pull a bit more 14 weight, and I thought that Number 4 did that 15 with the inclusion of -- okay. 16 (Laughter.) 17 MR. TUCKER: I'll stop. But anyway, 3B is 18 lovely, and it does everything that a coin 19 needs to do, and so that has my endorsement. 20 Thank you, Dr. Brown. 21 THE CHAIR: Thank you so much. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 159 1 Turn now to Dean. 2 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 3 Chairman. 4 Thank you, Mr. This is Dean Kotlowski. And I won't stop. I think 3B 5 combines the best elements of the Patsy Mink 6 4 and 5, actually. 7 all together. 8 9 And this one brings us So, I really liked Number 3B because, again, it's like Dennis said, and 10 the liaisons and the family said, it has all 11 three aspects of her: 12 activist, and the composer. 13 engaging and very dignified design. 14 the author, the It's a very I have to say there were a lot of 15 designs in here that were truly excellent. 16 I actually liked, in a way, Number 6 and 17 Number 6A. 18 very compelling about this portrait and 19 profile. 20 direction; you can have the violin or the 21 more Native American symbolism of the sun. I thought that there's something And then you can go either www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 160 1 I also want to point out sort of 2 secondarily, I'm giving almost all my 3 support to 3B, but I liked 1 and 2. 4 thought 2 had a lot of dynamism and it 5 reminded me a little bit of, you know, the 6 Maria Tallchief coins that we had done and 7 the Native Americans in Ballet, American 8 Indians in Ballet. 9 of her life. 10 I But it's only one aspect For a lot of the reasons stated 11 by Dennis, I liked Number 1. 12 was very innovative. 13 and contemplative. 14 stimulating. 15 uneasy because the artist did such a good 16 job of bringing the violin and the portrait 17 together that I felt the portrait had to 18 compete against a physical or inanimate 19 object that, to be sure, she's going to 20 animate when she plays it. 21 I thought this It's very thoughtful It was visually But it also made me somewhat But it just -- I think that a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 161 1 straight-up portrait, you know, honors the 2 person in this particular representation 3 much better. 4 And that would be 3B. Where I would like to see 1 is as 5 a painting in a set of paintings of 6 different representations of Zitkala-Sa. 7 And I think where you would go through an 8 art gallery and you would say, "Oh, well, 9 you know, that's interesting. 10 You know, that gives me something to think about." 11 But in many ways, this is going 12 to be, for a lot of people, the first 13 representation they're going to see of this 14 author, activist, and composer, and that 15 makes 3B the choice for me. 16 17 Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 18 THE CHAIR: 19 Let's turn now to Robin. 20 MS. SALMON: 21 Salmon. Thank you so much. This is Robin Thank you, Dr. Brown. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 162 1 All of these designs are 2 wonderful in their own right for a variety 3 of reasons. 4 I'll make it short. I really was compelled by 6 and 5 6A. I don't know whether the unbound hair 6 is not traditional or how -- quite why the 7 artist would have portrayed her that way as 8 opposed to the braided hair in the other 9 designs. But to me, this is just an 10 absolutely beautiful design, and it has the 11 "Author, Activist, Composer" phrase as well. 12 I will not go against 3B being 13 the family's preference. 14 something about that particular design that 15 seems as if there's too much in it, but that 16 may be just me. 17 And there's I like her looking directly at 18 the person holding the coin. 19 eye engagement or appearance of eye 20 engagement is important in who she was. 21 I think that So, I will still support 3B, but www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 163 1 I love the beauty of 6 and 6A. Thank you. 2 THE CHAIR: 3 Let's turn now to Art Bernstein. 4 MR. BERNSTEIN: 5 Thank you. This is Art Bernstein. 6 I find 3B to be a striking 7 design, and I think I heard Robin just 8 say -- use the words "eye engagement." 9 me, in a less technical sense, I felt like To 10 the honoree is looking right at us, and I 11 found that that's what made it striking for 12 me. 13 I prefer 3B to the other members 14 of the 3 family because the other two in the 15 3 grouping use the word "Red Bird." 16 up the "Red Bird" in B and get her 17 accomplishments, and we still get the red 18 bird, who is in the rays of the sun. 19 think we're getting the best of both worlds, 20 and I support 3B. 21 THE CHAIR: Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 We give So, I CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 164 1 Let's turn now to Mike Moran. 2 (Brief Pause.) 3 THE CHAIR: Mike, you're on mute. 4 MR. MORAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 5 6 This is Mike Moran. I thought Number 1 was an 7 outstanding design, really beautiful, but it 8 belongs on a three-inch medal, not a 9 quarter, and that's the problem that we're 10 11 all having with it. I like 5A and 6A. They're 12 excellent designs. 13 to the family because 3B is just as good, 14 and that's where I put my votes. 15 Thank you. 16 THE CHAIR: 17 Let's turn now to Sam Gill. 18 MR. GILL: 19 20 21 But I'm going to defer Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Brown. This is Sam Gill. Well, first of all, I think the whole portfolio is exquisite. I compliment www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 165 1 the artists tremendously. 2 beautiful, beautiful designs, each and every 3 one of them. 4 These are Just, they all shine. I think our quarter, I think it's 5 very important to tell a story about each 6 person that is fortunate enough to be 7 recognized. 8 story about this lady, and I like that very 9 much. 10 And 3B does tell the whole But I want to recognize Number 1 11 because it shows her in both worlds. It 12 shows her Native world and it shows her 13 western world with the violin. 14 it very much, and maybe it would look good 15 on a medal or something else. 16 tell the whole story; 3B does. 17 want to make mention that that is a very, 18 very striking coin. And I liked It doesn't But I just 19 Thank you, sir. 20 THE CHAIR: 21 Let's turn to John Saunders. Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 166 1 MR. SAUNDERS: I'd like to 2 mention the second part of our voting, which 3 is the vote for artistic merit. 4 could give an artistic merit to every design 5 we've seen today. 6 times because you've got to have a contrast, 7 so we're expressing a preference. 8 can't say any designs we've seen for any of 9 the coins here lack artistic merit. 10 I probably I didn't for all the But I But this particular design, I'd 11 like to give double artistic merit to all of 12 the designs here. 13 probably like the 5s the least, but even 14 that I would give one and three-quarters for 15 artistic merit and double for everything 16 else. 17 I mean, this was -- I But I kind of agree with what a 18 couple people thought before I heard the 19 preferences. 20 the art. 21 asked about whether it was appropriate to I like 6 best in terms of just I don't know whether -- someone www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 167 1 have straight hair as opposed to braided 2 hair. 3 depictions with braided hair, but I don't 4 know that that's necessarily something other 5 than a convention. I mean, often, we see Native American 6 But I like this the best, so I'm 7 going to give this one three and a quarter. 8 And I liked the preference of 3B just fine 9 too, so I'm going to give that three. But 10 I'm messing with the thing here, just saying 11 that I like the 6 a little bit better just 12 on artistic basis. 13 artistic merit for all designs in this 14 group. 15 16 But again, double THE CHAIR: Thank you so much. love your innovative thinking. 17 I too, like my colleagues, was 18 really amazed at Design 1. 19 amazed about that. 20 stunning. 21 I was really And that to me was For the reasons that my www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 168 1 colleagues have articulated and for the 2 reasons that was advanced by the family, my 3 vote is going to go with 3B as well because 4 it does tell not only the design elements 5 but it also tells the story, the message, 6 and to me, that's extremely valuable for a 7 circulating coin. 8 9 Are there any additional comments or motions from the members at this time? 10 (No Response.) 11 THE CHAIR: Not seeing any, Mike 12 and Joe, do you have any comments you would 13 like to offer? 14 MR. COSTELLO: No, sir. 15 MR. MENNA: No comments. 16 THE CHAIR: Then, on the basis of 17 that, let us then begin our scoring. 18 will recess for 10 minutes to do the score. 19 20 21 We (Brief Recess.) SCORING RESULTS THE CHAIR: We back. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 This is CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 169 1 Lawrence Brown, and I recognize Greg 2 Weinman, Counsel to the CCAC, to present the 3 results from the scoring. 4 MR. WEINMAN: Once again, out of 5 a possible score of 30, Design Number 1 6 received 9. 7 8 Design Number 2 received 8 points. 9 Design Number 3 received 7. 10 Design Number 3A received 8. 11 Design Number 3B received 30, 12 making it the high vote-getter. 13 Design Number 4 received 5. 14 5A received 7. 15 5B received 8. 16 Design 6 received 11. 17 And Design 6A received 9. 18 So, the clear high vote-getter 19 was 3B with 30 votes. 20 THE CHAIR: 21 Outstanding. you, Greg. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Thank CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 170 1 MOTIONS AND VOTE 2 THE CHAIR: Are there any motions 3 that the Committee would love us to 4 consider? 5 (No Response.) 6 THE CHAIR: None necessary, then 7 the motion -- correction. 8 and tell us the direction of the CCAC. 9 10 The votes stand Are there any further motions that the Committee would like to consider? 11 (No Response.) 12 THE CHAIR: Seeing that there is 13 no further need for any further discussion 14 on this program, I would like to thank Holly 15 Brown Ogle and Mr. Mark Bonnin for their 16 attendance of this meeting and for their 17 roles in bringing this fantastic program to 18 our attention and allow us to participate 19 with them in the telling of the story about 20 this famous American. 21 MR. BONNIN: Thanks for letting www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 171 1 us be part of the process. 2 THE CHAIR: Thank you so much. 3 In light of the fact that a 4 number of members have in fact a tight 5 schedule, so that we maintain quorum, I'm 6 going to suggest that we go through the next 7 item. 8 step away for a second to be able to get 9 something to eat that you can do so, but And for those in fact who desire to 10 we're going to make sure that we can go 11 forward in rhythm. 12 2024 AMERICAN WOMEN QUARTER: 13 DR. MARY EDWARDS WALKER 14 THE CHAIR: Thus, the fifth item 15 today for our review is the reverse 16 candidate design for the 2024 American Women 17 Quarter honoring Dr. Mary Edwards. 18 MR. WEINMAN: 19 Mary Edwards Walker. 20 THE CHAIR: Mary Edwards Walker. 21 April Stafford, Chief of the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 172 1 Mint's Office of Design Management, will 2 introduce the program and present the 3 reverse candidate designs. 4 REPORT 5 6 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. This is April Stafford. 7 Some background information on 8 this quarter. Dr. Mary Edwards Walker was 9 born in 1832 in New York to abolitionist 10 parents. 11 and question everything, including 12 conventional norms. 13 She was raised to be a freethinker She was a Civil War-era surgeon 14 and a women's rights advocate who broke 15 gender customs of the time by not wearing 16 traditional women's clothing. 17 a working farm, she found women's clothing 18 of the era, including corsets, to be too 19 restrictive and unhealthy. 20 doctor, she found traditional men's clothing 21 or her bloomerized clothing to be practical, Growing up on Likewise, as a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 173 1 more comfortable, and more sanitary. 2 continued to advocate for dress reform 3 throughout her life. 4 She Dr. Walker was relentless in her 5 efforts to serve as a surgeon in the Civil 6 War at a time when women were not permitted 7 to serve in the military. 8 1863, her request to practice as a surgeon 9 was finally accepted. But finally, in She became the first 10 woman U.S. Army surgeon as a contract acting 11 assistant surgeon, or civilian, with the 12 52nd Regiment, Ohio Volunteer Infantry. 13 Walker often crossed battlelines 14 to care for wounded soldiers. 15 Confederate troops as a suspected spy, she 16 was held as a prisoner of war for four 17 months at Castle Thunder Prison near 18 Richmond, Virginia, before being released as 19 part of a prisoner exchange. 20 Dr. Walker returned to medical service. 21 Captured by Once released, On November 11th, 1865, she was www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 174 1 awarded the Medal of Honor by President 2 Andrew Johnson. 3 1917 when the government determined that 4 only soldiers who served in combat were 5 eligible to receive it. 6 return her medal and continued to wear it 7 for the remainder of her life. 8 9 The medal was rescinded in She refused to The medal was officially restored by President Jimmy Carter in 1977, and Dr. 10 Walker remains the only woman to be awarded 11 the Medal of Honor. 12 We have with us a liaison with 13 whom we worked on this program, George 14 DeMass, who is Historian with the Town of 15 Oswego, New York. 16 17 18 19 Mr. DeMass, would you like to say any words to the Committee? MR. DeMASS: Yes, I would. Am I coming through all right? 20 MS. STAFFORD: 21 MR. DeMASS: Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 175 1 I'm George DeMass, the Town of 2 Oswego Historian, and I speak today for the 3 people of the Town of Oswego as well as the 4 City of Oswego. 5 We're very honored to have Dr. 6 Mary Walker named for a quarter in 2024. 7 just want to thank you for making myself and 8 Tom Worden, who is a 9 great-great-great-nephew, part of this 10 11 process. We really appreciate that. I'm in my boyhood home, living 12 there, and I'm there today. 13 miles from where Dr. Mary lived on Bunker 14 Hill Road, on a hill called Bunker Hill. 15 And it's two Her father and the Walkers came 16 from near Boston in the early 1800s, came 17 over here to central New York, and settled 18 near Lake Ontario. 19 the road Bunker Hill because he hoped that 20 it would be a place of battle for great 21 social justice and social reforms. He named the hill and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 176 1 I knew people that knew Dr. Mary, 2 so I've grown up with her story and her life 3 in our midst. 4 And this is not the only honor 5 that Dr. Mary Walker is receiving in this 6 year or next year. 7 Hill in Virginia is going to be named Fort 8 Mary Walker. 9 The former Form A. P. A week ago, Monday, February 10 21st, marked the 114th anniversary of her 11 death. 12 Dr. Bertha Van Hoosen, in Chicago. 13 Hoosen was younger than Dr. Mary, but they 14 became strong friends. 15 to visit Chicago so she could ride in Dr. 16 Van Hoosen's electric car at the time. 17 And Mary Walker had a great friend, Dr. Van And Dr. Mary liked But at the time of her death, Dr. 18 Van Hoosen wrote these words, and I would 19 like to share them with you today: 20 Mary's life should stand out to remind us 21 that when people do not think as we do, do www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 "Dr. CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 177 1 not dress as we do, and do not live as we 2 do, that they are more than likely to be a 3 half-century ahead of their time and that we 4 should have for them not ridicule but 5 reverence." 6 7 8 9 10 11 So, thank you very much for this honor. MS. STAFFORD: This is April Stafford. Thank you so much. We really appreciate that background. And for the Committee, I will 12 share also that these designs were seen by 13 the Smithsonian American History Women's 14 Institute as well as the National Women's 15 History Museum historians with whom we work 16 closely as well. 17 They do very much like the family 18 preference that we will share with you, but 19 they also noted it might be important for 20 your consideration that her clothing style 21 was such an important part of who she was, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 178 1 and so some of these reviewers felt that 2 other designs in the portfolio that present 3 her in full clothing might be more 4 appropriate and representative of Dr. 5 Walker. 6 your mind. So, please have that in the back of 7 We'll share that the family 8 preference was identified as Design 2. 9 this design was also part of a combination And 10 recommendation by the CFA. 11 appreciated this portrait but preferred the 12 composition of 3A for reasons that I will 13 share with you now. 14 They very much They felt that this design really 15 centered appropriately in large scale the 16 Medal of Honor, whereas if you go back to 17 the previous design, the Medal of Honor is 18 seen multiple times, including once in text, 19 but is not perhaps taking center stage as 20 3A, if we could go back there. 21 Also, 3A has the inscription www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 179 1 "Civil War Surgeon," which they felt also 2 was critically important, whereas Design 2, 3 again, uses the "Medal of Honor" as an 4 inscription as opposed -- in addition to the 5 visual references. 6 So, they felt -- the CFA made, 7 actually, a combination that if there was a 8 way to do some kind of combination where you 9 use the portrait from 2 with the composition 10 of 3A. Nevertheless, we will share with you 11 the whole portfolio for your deliberations. 12 We'll start with Design 1 and 1A. 13 These designs feature a full-length 14 depiction of Dr. Mary Edwards Walker in the 15 surgeon's uniform she created. 16 of her Medal of Honor is on the right. 17 stands with her hand on an inscription for 18 emphasis. The detail She 19 Design 1 includes the additional 20 inscription "Equality," representing one of 21 her lifelong causes. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 180 1 2 1A features the inscription "Dr. Mary Edwards Walker, Civil War Surgeon." 3 Design 2 depicts a close-up 4 portrait of Dr. Walker holding her surgical 5 toolkit. 6 The additional inscription "Medal of Honor 7 1865" resides in a banner at the bottom of 8 the design. 9 preference of the family and part of a 10 On the left is the Medal of Honor. Again, this is the identified combination recommended by the CFA. 11 Moving on, Designs 3 and 3A 12 feature Dr. Walker in her, quote, unquote, 13 "bloomerized" clothing alongside the Medal 14 of Honor. 15 Design 3 includes the additional 16 inscriptions "Civil War" and "U.S. Army 17 Surgeon," while 3A features an enlarged 18 depiction of Dr. Walker and the additional 19 inscription "Civil War Surgeon." 20 21 Designs 4 and 4A depict close-up versions of Dr. Walker alongside her Medal www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 181 1 of Honor. 2 tents in the background. 3 Design 4 includes Civil War-era Designs 5 and 5A portray a 4 full-length figure of Dr. Walker in her 5 surgeon's uniform with the Medal of Honor on 6 the right. 7 a crescent moon, a symbol for women's 8 empowerment. 9 Design 5A includes the shape of Designs 6 and 6A depict a 10 full-length figure of Dr. Walker dressed in 11 her typical style of clothing. 12 includes the inscription "Dr. Mary Edwards 13 Walker" in her handwriting, along with the 14 additional inscriptions "Civil War Surgeon" 15 and "Medal of Honor," while 6A includes 16 incused text around the border and the 17 additional inscription "Civil War Surgeon." Design 6 18 And finally, Designs 6B and 6C 19 feature Dr. Walker alongside her Medal of 20 Honor with the additional inscription "Medal 21 of Honor." www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 182 1 2 That concludes the candidate designs. 3 4 THE CHAIR: Thank you so much. This is Lawrence Brown again. 5 Let me ask the Committee members: 6 Are there any technical or legal questions 7 that you would like to offer? 8 (Brief Pause.) 9 THE CHAIR: 10 MR. WEINMAN: 11 THE CHAIR: 12 DR. FULLER: 13 I have a question -Dr. Harcourt -I'm sorry? Harcourt? Yes, this is Harcourt Fuller. 14 I just wanted to clarify. When 15 you said that 3A, which is the family's 16 preference, April, so, are you saying that 17 that is already reflective of the final 18 version of what they've asked to combine or 19 no? 20 21 MS. STAFFORD: So, the family's identified preference thus far is actually www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 183 1 Design 2. 2 the portrait. 3 If we could see that? Because of And it was -- so, that's 2. And then it was the CFA who made 4 this design part of a combination 5 recommendation. 6 portrait but somehow merging the composition 7 of 3A because they very much appreciated the 8 enlarged Medal of Honor and, in particular, 9 the inscription "Civil War Surgeon." 10 They suggested taking this They felt that her role as a 11 Civil War surgeon for which she was honored 12 was really important, as well as, if you can 13 go back to 2, they noted that the Medal of 14 Honor is repeated three times in this 15 design, in the composition. 16 DR. FULLER: And if I may 17 conclude my remarks, quite frankly, I think 18 it's difficult not seeing the final version 19 of what they're asking for. 20 to be, at least for me, difficult to make a 21 decision. It's just going www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 184 1 2 If I -- I don't know if Joe wanted to -- is that -- 3 MR. MENNA: This is Joe Menna. 4 I'm not making any judgment about 5 the recommendation. 6 feeling is if April came to me and said, 7 "Joe, how can we adjust the design? 8 you work with the artist to make this design 9 work since it's the family's favorite?" 10 blah, blah, blah. 11 I'm just saying. 12 I don't see how -- my How can I don't mean that to -- I would say take away "Medal of 13 Honor" if that's a concern, put a different 14 inscription there, and perhaps even "E 15 Pluribus Unum" or "Dr. Mary Edwards Walker." 16 Give more space for the Medal of Honor. 17 Make the Medal of Honor bigger on the left 18 side. 19 Without revealing who did what, 20 I'd be very much against cutting off one 21 artist's head and putting it on another www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 185 1 artist's body. 2 thing. We don't do that kind of 3 (Laughter.) 4 MR. MENNA: And so, since this -- 5 the best way to honor it is to, I think, 6 solve -- this could be revisited in a way 7 that fully honors the family, the artist's 8 intent, and meets the CFA's concerns, and 9 whatever vote. I'm not trying to influence 10 you. That's how we would solve it. 11 saying that's how we would take care of it. 12 DR. FULLER: I'm And I'm saying, just 13 finally, I think I would have to see it 14 first before I can vote on it because -- 15 16 MR. MENNA: understandable. 17 18 19 That's fully DR. FULLER: my head. -- I can't do it in I'm sorry. MS. STAFFORD: Absolutely. And 20 we share the CFA's recommendation just for 21 your awareness. But I -- this is April www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 186 1 Stafford, by the way. 2 And I agree with our Chief 3 Engraver. 4 behind their recommendation. 5 respected the preference of the family 6 because of the likeness, but they had a 7 concern with the number of times the Medal 8 of Honor appeared here and desired a 9 representation in some way of her work as a 10 It's really the spirit of the why So, they Civil War surgeon. 11 So, the example Joe gave is one 12 of what might be a couple of approaches that 13 the Mint could take. 14 Really, it's just for this 15 Committee's awareness, and we welcome 16 whatever observations or recommendations you 17 have on the portfolio as it's presented to 18 you. 19 DR. FULLER: Thank you. 20 MS. STAFFORD: 21 THE CHAIR: Thank you. This is Lawrence www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 187 1 Brown. 2 than a question. 3 I have somewhat of a comment more And my comment is actually 4 reflecting of the fact that this is the only 5 woman to have received the Medal of Honor. 6 And at the same time, I want to share that I 7 actually had an opportunity to be at a 8 meeting with a lot of Medal of Honor 9 winners, all male. And the way the medal is 10 portrayed is actually with a ribbon that's 11 around the neck with the medal hanging. 12 And I just wanted to make sure 13 that in the communications that we send this 14 out that we make that known about the 15 distinction. 16 And perhaps, had there been other 17 female Medal of Honor winners, it would have 18 been portrayed differently. 19 it would, but I think it's important so when 20 people see that they will see that Medal of 21 Honor. I'm not sure if And those particularly who have www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 188 1 received it or that have family members who 2 have, will recognize the difference in that. 3 4 MS. STAFFORD: April Stafford again. 5 Yes. And this is Thank you, Dr. Brown. Just for the record, the Design 6 Manager has ensured that we have 7 photographic references that show Dr. Walker 8 wearing her medal this way is an accurate 9 representation historically. 10 So, we have that assurance. 11 THE CHAIR: Thank you. 12 Are there any other technical or legal 13 questions from the Committee members? 14 (No Response.) 15 CONSIDERATION 16 17 THE CHAIR: Hearing none or seeing none, let us begin our consideration. 18 I'd like to remind us again to 19 try to keep our comments to five minutes or 20 less. 21 questions, please understand we will in fact And if there are additional www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 189 1 undertake those questions after we go 2 through this process. 3 For the benefit of the Court 4 Reporter and for those calling in, I ask 5 that you state your name before you begin 6 speaking. 7 8 So, let us begin with Mr. John Saunders. 9 MR. SAUNDERS: John Saunders. 10 remembered to say my name this time. 11 I am going through these. I like 12 3A best. 13 has mentioned cutting off the head of one 14 artist and putting it on the other is kind 15 of a bad thing, if you made the portrait 16 different on 3A, it's going to be so small 17 anyway that it's going to be fairly 18 meaningless. 19 I I think, besides the fact that Joe I found 2 to be my second choice. 20 Excuse me. Anyway, I agree with 2 that, if 21 we went with 2, I think putting "Civil War www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 190 1 Surgeon" where they say "Medal of Honor" 2 would be an improvement. 3 I think it was a horrible thing 4 to do, taking away the medal from this 5 woman. 6 sexist, I mean, she went over there. 7 a pretty horrible job being a surgeon in the 8 Civil War. 9 off. I mean, besides it being completely It was I mean, you were cutting limbs You were -- it was pretty rough. And 10 from everything I've heard about it, those 11 prisoner-of-war camps were no fun, either. 12 I mean, that was a pretty horrid thing for 13 her to have to go through. 14 And someone that would go through 15 all that and then be awarded something and 16 then having it pulled back I think is very 17 bad form, to say the least. 18 19 So, my preference is 3A with a strong second for Number 2. 20 THE CHAIR: Thank you so much. 21 Let's turn now to Peter. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 191 1 2 DR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 3 I really am drawn to 1A, in part 4 because of the really forceful, strong pose 5 of Dr. Mary Walker here. 6 like the fact that she seems to be breaking 7 the fourth wall, you know, as it were by 8 placing her hand on the "Dr." 9 that's a really clever artistic move in that 10 11 But I also really I think that pose. One of the other things that I do 12 like about 1, 1A, and 2 is that they also 13 depict her clearly as a young woman. 14 think that it is important to recognize the 15 fact that when she was doing this horrible 16 job as a Civil War surgeon she was doing 17 this at an age, you know, in her mid 30s 18 essentially, when she still was quite young. 19 And I So, these portraits, these 20 depictions, really do underscore that, 21 whereas many of the others, she appears much www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 192 1 later in life, it seems, and much more 2 matronly. 3 underscore the fact that she was quite young 4 when she was doing this and was awarded the 5 medal. 6 And I think it is important to I also think it's important that 7 there be some note of or the inscription 8 "Medal of Honor" somewhere on the reverse 9 simply because I don't think many people are 10 going to understand what that medal is 11 without that. 12 not have any indication of what that medal 13 is, so I do think it is important to have 14 "Medal of Honor" as an inscription somewhere 15 on the reverse. 16 And many of these reverses do Some of the concerns that I have 17 with 3A especially is that I think at 18 quarter size Dr. Walker standing in front of 19 the Medal of Honor there is going to look 20 like an amorphous blob and really is not 21 going to be particularly eye-catching. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 193 1 I think that being able to draw a 2 distinction between her and the medal and 3 having some negative space in between is 4 important. 5 So, all said, I am happy to 6 support Number 2 as the selection just 7 because it does depict her as a young woman, 8 does include "Medal of Honor" as an 9 inscription, and I think that it is an 10 attractive design, although, again, I really 11 do like Number 1A quite a bit. 12 So, thank you. 13 THE CHAIR: 14 Harcourt. 15 16 Let's turn now to DR. FULLER: Thank you. This is Harcourt Fuller. 17 I second Peter. Yes. I'm sorry. I really like 1. 18 Is it 1? 1A, please. I 19 just like the fact that she has her hand on 20 the "Dr.", right? 21 reinforces her confidence in terms of what I think that it just www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 194 1 she has done. 2 I'm not a big fan personally of 3 showing the whole body because I think that, 4 on that size quarter, I think you'll lose 5 some of the detail. 6 7 And so, that brings me to -let's go to 2, please. 8 What I really love about 2 is 9 "Medal of Honor" and the date because I 10 think that the date is very significant 11 because everybody knows, or should know, 12 what that date represents. 13 to be getting a Medal of Honor during that 14 time under those circumstances, I like how 15 it pops. 16 for this, keeping mind my previous comments. And for a woman And so, I will give consideration 17 Thank you. 18 THE CHAIR: 19 Let's turn now to Dennis Tucker. 20 MR. TUCKER: 21 Brown. Thank you so much. Thank you, Dr. This is Dennis Tucker. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 195 1 And I'd like to greet Mr. DeMass. 2 You and I have met, and it's good to hear 3 your voice today. 4 For the benefit of my colleagues 5 here, I would mention that I was born in 6 Syracuse, New York, and I grew up in 7 Phoenix, New York, which is about 20 miles 8 south of Oswego. 9 opportunity for me to work on this 10 So, this is a nice particular coin. 11 I did not know much about Dr. 12 Mary Edwards Walker when I was growing up. 13 She's not someone that we learned about in 14 school, even though she should have been a 15 local hero. 16 I find that interesting. I like Design 2. I endorse it 17 fully. I would address the CFA's concerns 18 about the repetition of the concept of the 19 Medal of Honor. 20 very visually interesting piece of work. 21 And so, we have the architectural blueprint The Medal of Honor is a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 196 1 view of it, if you will, which satisfies 2 that. 3 We have a view of the medal in 4 life as Dr. Walker wore it. 5 Brown has mentioned, that's different from 6 the way that you see it worn today, so 7 that's a unique aspect of her Medal of 8 Honor. 9 And as Dr. And then, people learn and absorb 10 information differently. 11 visual; some people need to read things. 12 For the people who read things and absorb 13 information that way, we have the words 14 "Medal of Honor" and the date, as Dr. Fuller 15 pointed out. 16 Some people are "1865" is helpful. So, I don't see that repetition 17 as being onerous in any way. 18 actually a strength of this design. 19 I think it's I would point out one other 20 thing. Sometimes we look at the size of the 21 planchet and we get worried about what can www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 197 1 be done on a coin the size of a quarter. 2 And I would remind the Committee and anyone 3 reading these comments in the future of what 4 the United States Mint has done on a 5 planchet the size of the $5 gold 6 commemorative coin. 7 millimeters. 8 dollar, which is 24.3 millimeters. 9 That's 21.6 It's smaller than a quarter And if you look at the 2019 10 American Legion 100th Anniversary $5 gold 11 piece, look at the amount of detail that's 12 shown in the American Legion emblem on that 13 coin, which is shown in its entirety on a 14 tiny scale on the small canvas. 15 It is a small coin, but -- and 16 you will not be able to see microscopic 17 detail in the Medal of Honor, but I think 18 that you'll be able to get a feel for it. 19 So, I think 2 is a very strong 20 design. I like seeing her in a more 21 youthful look, as Peter pointed out. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 She CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 198 1 was in her early 30s during the Civil War. 2 So, I'm not bothered by the lack 3 of the term "Surgeon." 4 captures that, and anyone interested can 5 look up more information. 6 I think "Dr." And again, kind of addressing the 7 size of the coin, the fact that it is a 8 larger bust portrait of her is an advantage. 9 So, I think 2 is very strong, and 10 I like it. It's going to get my strongest 11 endorsement. 12 Thank you, Dr. Brown. 13 THE CHAIR: 14 Let's turn to Robin Salmon. 15 MS. SALMON: 16 17 Salmon. Thank you. This is Robin Thank you, Mr. Chair. 1 and 1A also attracted me. The 18 hand on the lettering is powerful, and it's 19 also something different, something unique 20 in the designs, among the designs that we've 21 seen so far. I think, though, that the full www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 199 1 figure might be lost in the size of the 2 coin. 3 Number 2 is a lovely portrait. 4 And initially, I was leaning toward removing 5 the lettering "Medal of Honor 1865" and 6 replacing that with "Civil War Surgeon." 7 But I think the argument that most people 8 aren't going to recognize the Medal of Honor 9 swayed me that we do need to keep that 10 particular lettering and that perhaps "Civil 11 War Surgeon" isn't as significant in this 12 overall design. 13 significance of "Dr." indicates she was a 14 physician. 15 her name can be looked up and the rest of 16 the story can be revealed. 17 It's -- the word -- or the And as someone said previously, I'm putting my vote with Number 18 2. 19 as a significant symbol of who she was and 20 what she did. 21 I think it's a lovely rendition as well Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 200 1 THE CHAIR: 2 Turn to Art Bernstein. 3 MR. BERNSTEIN: 4 Thank you. This is Art Bernstein. 5 I wanted to point out Design 4, 6 which hasn't been talked about. I was 7 attracted to the background of the Civil War 8 soldiers' tents. 9 showed her role in the war and gave some I thought that lent -- 10 historical context to the world in which she 11 was serving. 12 out. 13 I wanted to just point that There are a lot of different 14 preferences in this discussion. 15 preference would be with Design 3, not 3A. 16 And my reasoning is I heard all of the 17 discussion regarding the outfit that she 18 designed for herself, and I thought there 19 was value in showing her full length. 20 doesn't do that. It looks like she's just 21 wearing a dress. And so, that led me to go www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 My 3A CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 201 1 with 3. 2 3 And I thought that it was also a good depiction of the Medal of Honor. 4 Thank you. 5 THE CHAIR: 6 Let's turn now to Mike Moran. 7 MR. MORAN: 8 sleep, Dr. Brown. 9 Thank you so much. I did not go to I am here. I'll make it really short. I 10 want to speak to one thing on 3A. 11 problem with that design is the fact that, 12 and it's already been noted, the figure runs 13 into the medal. 14 that on a quarter, the average person is 15 going to think that's a deputy sheriff's 16 badge, to be a bit cute about that. 17 mistake for a coin that size. 18 The And by the time you get It's a Turning to 2A, it will get my 19 vote. I don't see a thing wrong with the 20 way the signatures -- the inscriptions are 21 as is because, very simply, again, it's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 202 1 obviously a medal there, a military medal, 2 on that coin and easily seen as that. 3 average person in the United States is not 4 going to get that it's the Congressional 5 Medal of Honor. 6 Your The fact that you've got the 7 "Dr." in front of her name, the date "1865," 8 and the "Medal of Honor," that tells the 9 story. And if anybody's interested in more 10 details than that, they'll look up the 11 history. 12 the closing days of the war. But it will show her heroism in 13 So, that's it. 14 THE CHAIR: 15 Number 2A for me. Thank you so much, Mike. 16 Let's turn to Sam Gill. 17 MR. GILL: 18 Chairman. 19 Thank you, Mr. This is Sam Gill. My votes are going to go to 20 Number 2. It tells the whole story. 21 am not troubled by the "Medal of Honor" www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I too CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 203 1 being inscribed there with "1865." 2 clearly implies the Civil War. 3 That And even though three 4 representations of the medal are here, 5 that's okay. 6 shows what it actually looked like and then 7 it tells the story that she won it. 8 9 10 It shows she wore it and it And so, with that, I'm satisfied with Number 2, although I did think 3A was a very pretty coin. 11 Thank you. 12 THE CHAIR: 13 14 15 16 17 Thank you so much. This is Lawrence Brown. And I must confess that, like many of you, I had some leaning towards -DR. KOTLOWSKI: Dr. Brown, I didn't go yet. 18 THE CHAIR: Okay. 19 DR. KOTLOWSKI: I'm sorry. No, 20 did you want to make your comments and have 21 me go at the end? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 204 1 2 THE CHAIR: No. Then, let's have you go. 3 DR. KOTLOWSKI: Okay. 4 Brown. This is Dean Kotlowski. 5 for interrupting like that. 6 7 8 9 THE CHAIR: Sorry, Dr. Apologies No, apologies, my apologies. DR. KOTLOWSKI: And I'm actually going to -- Dr. Brown, maybe you should have 10 skipped me because I'm going to maybe do 11 something I'm not supposed to do here. 12 I'm going to use the iPad for something. 13 But And I'm not sure if I'm allowed 14 to do that, but let's go to Number 2. 15 is the design that I favor for all of the 16 reasons everyone simply stated. 17 That I also think there's very good 18 balance here. The medal is not too big, and 19 she's wearing the medal. 20 largest of the portraits, so your eyes are 21 really drawn to her. And it is the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 205 1 I'm going to give some points to 2 1A, and here is the reason why. 3 to show you this. 4 was issued. This is the stamp that 5 MALE SPEAKER: 6 FEMALE SPEAKER: 7 DR. KOTLOWSKI: It went away. Oh, there it is. Okay. 8 going to happen. 9 know if people can see that. This is So, there's -- I don't 10 of Honor." 11 think is very, very important. 12 I'm going You see "Medal You see she is youthful, which I So, if you wanted to kind of move 13 the conversation along and put a -- you 14 know, this is from 40 years ago. 15 very different representation of her. 16 17 18 MR. TUCKER: It's a Could you identify that for the record? DR. KOTLOWSKI: Yeah. It is the 19 1982 U.S. Postal Service Dr. Mary Walker, 20 Army Surgeon, 20 Cent Medal of Honor 21 Commemorative Stamp. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 206 1 And I was just going to say if 2 you wanted a slightly different 3 representation of her that moves the 4 conversation along to how she engaged in 5 dress reform, I think 1A would be very 6 appropriate and very inspiring for the 7 reasons Peter said. 8 9 But I still -- you know, this is a stamp that, you know, stamp collectors are 10 going to be familiar with. 11 engage in it and they can find it and they 12 can discover it and make comparisons. 13 And they can I still think Design 2 is the 14 strongest design but giving some points to 15 1A. 16 Thank you, Dr. Brown. 17 THE CHAIR: Thank you so much. 18 And we really appreciate you making the 19 connection for us. 20 21 Now, as I was going to say, that I am leaning between 1A as well as 2. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 207 1 on the one hand, let me -- they both, in 2 fact, to me are striking. 3 2 because I can see more of herself there, 4 so that one is attractive. 5 I prefer perhaps But the downside of that is that, 6 for the reader and the message "Civil War 7 Surgeon," you have to look that up. 8 know that most of the public would 9 appreciate that that "Dr." is associated 10 with a physician, number one, and number 11 two, as a Civil War surgeon. 12 I don't With respect to Design 3A, if we 13 can show that quickly? 14 fact that this one has the "Civil War 15 Surgeon," but I'm not so sure that, again, 16 John Q. Public or Mary Q. Public is going to 17 realize what that medal is. 18 "Medal of Honor" sort of reinforces that. 19 I do appreciate the So, saying So, for that reason, my vote is 20 between those two, honestly, because the 21 message is not so much to me the art, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 208 1 although I appreciate the comments that many 2 of you have shared about the artistic 3 rendition. 4 is really important, particularly as we're 5 talking about a famous American. It's the message here to me that 6 At this point, I'll entertain any 7 comments or motions from the members of this 8 Committee. 9 Harcourt? 10 DR. FULLER: Very quickly, if I 11 may say so, this is Harcourt Fuller. 12 right arm appears to be, you know -- 13 MALE SPEAKER: 14 DR. FULLER: 15 THE CHAIR: MR. MENNA: 19 DR. FULLER: 21 This design here -- Mr. Menna, do you want to respond to this or give guidance? 18 20 In which design? cut off, to me, when I look at this. 16 17 Her This is Joe Menna. Sorry, Joe. I know -MR. MENNA: No, Dr. Fuller, it's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 209 1 fine. 2 You know, I have the honor of 3 being the art director and working closely 4 with every artist on each design. It was 5 something that we -- not cut off. The 6 positioning of the arm is something I worked 7 with the artist on. 8 9 I try not -- I don't like to change their vision. I do my best to help 10 them realize that. 11 the artist felt that this is what the artist 12 wanted probably because he/she/they did not 13 want to obscure the medal. 14 Artist felt strongly -- And so, I think -- I see it as 15 going behind the back. 16 know, and I -- perhaps the artist did that 17 to not obscure the medal. 18 my -- sir. 19 20 21 MR. TUCKER: I mean, what -- you That would be Dr. Brown, this is Dennis Tucker. Just for the record, which is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 210 1 text only -- this is what I was trying to 2 tell you -- and will not have the benefit of 3 visuals, I would mention that that 4 discussion was about Design 3A. 5 that would be -- that might be confusing if 6 that's not specified in the written record, 7 so I just wanted to say that verbally -- 8 THE CHAIR: 9 MR. TUCKER: 10 I think Thank you. -- so people can read along in the future. 11 THE CHAIR: 12 Joe, you have additional 13 14 15 Thank you. comments? MR. MENNA: Could I make a technical comment about Number 2? 16 THE CHAIR: Please. 17 MR. MENNA: So, for Design 2, 18 yes, it's a very, very beautiful portrait. 19 If we could go back to Design 2? 20 not the portrait alone that gives the grace 21 and elegance to this design. But it's I'm not www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 211 1 advocating for it. 2 Every single element -- I worked 3 very, very closely with this artist on this 4 design. 5 orientation, relationship to the figure, the 6 negative space, all contributes the story of 7 Medal of Honor recipient. 8 9 Every element of text's position, But the elegance of her portrait isn't just the beauty of the depiction of 10 the portrait. 11 composition is a keystone. 12 were -- in my opinion, any changes to it 13 would be like pulling a keystone away from a 14 building and could, I'm not saying would, 15 but could lessen the impact of the portrait 16 that you're all feeling. 17 that's just my observation. 18 19 20 21 Every element of this THE CHAIR: And if you I'm just saying Thank you so much, Joe. At this point, unless there's any additional comments or question, I think www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 212 1 that we are at the point that it's time to 2 score. 3 Each of you, obviously, will have 4 the scoresheet in front of you. 5 Robin, you have received that 6 electronically. 7 8 Mike and When you are done, please provide those to Greg. 9 MS. WARREN: 10 sorry. 11 George has his hand up. Oh, there's -- I'm This is Jennifer Warren. 12 THE CHAIR: 13 MR. DeMASS: Dr. Brown, Mr. DeMass. Okay. Yes. I'd just like 14 to say for that Number 2 the family was just 15 so satisfied with her face and the 16 determination, the determined look that they 17 saw in the artist's rendition of her face. 18 As well, of course, the way she wore the 19 Medal of Honor as well. 20 One of our favorite pictures of 21 her was taken by the Metropolitan Magazine www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 213 1 in 1892. And she wore her medal all the 2 time. 3 house. 4 and she has her arm around the neighbor's 5 neck and hanging on Mary Walker is that 6 medal, hanging right down as she pulls the 7 tooth. And in that picture, she's in her She's pulling a neighbor's tooth, 8 (Laughter.) 9 MR. DeMASS: But they were -- 10 they just liked the determination in her 11 face. 12 they call the Walker ears. 13 large size. And she has, quote, unquote, what 14 15 16 THE CHAIR: Mr. DeMass. They're quite Thank you so much, We really appreciate that. At this time, we'll continue the 17 process of the scoring. 18 a 10-minute recess for the scoring. 19 20 21 We're going to take (Brief Recess.) SCORING RESULTS THE CHAIR: Thank you so much. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 214 1 We are back. 2 I recognize Greg Weinman, Counsel 3 to the CCAC, to provide us the results of 4 the scoring. 5 MR. WEINMAN: Once again, out of 6 a possible score of 30, Design Number 1 7 scored a 5. 8 Design Number 1A scored 14. 9 Design Number 2 scored 30, making 10 it the high-scoring design. 11 Design Number 3 received 8. 12 3A received 9. 13 4 received 9. 14 4A received 4. 15 5 received 3. 16 5A received 3. 17 6 received 3. 18 6A received 4. 19 6B received 5. 20 6C received 4. 21 Once again, Design Number 2 was www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 215 1 the high vote-getter with 30. 2 MS. WARREN: 3 MOTIONS AND VOTE 4 5 Thank you, Greg. THE CHAIR: motions? Are there any Yes, Dennis? 6 MR. TUCKER: Dr. Brown, this is 7 not necessary, I think, given the vote of 8 30, but I would be honored to make a motion, 9 since I'm from the area, that the Committee 10 recommends to the Secretary of the Treasury 11 Design 2 for this coin. 12 13 THE CHAIR: the motion? 14 15 16 17 Is there a second on MS. SALMON: Robin Salmon, second. THE CHAIR: Let the record show that Robin Salmon seconded the motion. 18 Any discussion on the motion? 19 (No Response.) 20 THE CHAIR: 21 Hearing none, all those in favor, "aye"? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 216 1 (Chorus of "aye.") 2 THE CHAIR: 3 (No Response.) 4 THE CHAIR: 5 (Motion Carried Unanimously.) 6 THE CHAIR: Any opposed, "nay"? Motion carries. If all discussion has 7 concluded, then I would like to thank both 8 the liaisons, Mr. Worden as well as Mr. 9 DeMass, for participating in this process in 10 front of us, in front of the CCAC. 11 As that was the last -- 12 MR. DeMASS: 13 THE CHAIR: Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. 14 DeMass. 15 additional comments because they did add a 16 flavor that we would not have had without 17 them. 18 And thank you so much for your As that was the last order of 19 business for today's session of this public 20 meeting, I would like to really, from the 21 bottom of my heart, thank the members of the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 217 1 CCAC, those in person and those 2 participating remotely. 3 I certainly want to thank the 4 Mint staff for their attendance yesterday 5 and today. 6 The next meeting is expected to 7 be in April, and there will be a Federal 8 Register notice that will announce the 9 meeting at that time. 10 MOTION TO ADJOURN 11 12 THE CHAIR: At this point, I will entertain a motion for adjournment. 13 DR. VAN ALFEN: So, moved. 14 MR. BERNSTEIN: Art Bernstein, 15 16 second. THE CHAIR: Okay. The record 17 will show that Peter made the motion and Art 18 made the second. 19 All those in favor, "aye"? 20 (Chorus of "aye.") 21 THE CHAIR: Opposed, "nay"? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 218 1 (No Response.) 2 (Motion Carried Unanimously.) 3 THE CHAIR: We stand adjourned. 4 Have a pleasant remainder of the afternoon 5 and a safe time between now and the next 6 time we meet. 7 (Applause.) 8 MS. WARREN: 9 10 Warren. It's 12:45. This is Jennifer Meeting is adjourned. (Meeting adjourned at 12:45 p.m.) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting March 1, 2023 Page 219 1 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTIONIST 2 I, BRENDA STALEY, do hereby 3 certify that the proceedings were recorded 4 electronically at the time and place 5 mentioned on the cover sheet thereof, and, 6 thereafter, transcribed by me; that said 7 hearing is a true record of the statements 8 made; that I am neither counsel for, related 9 to, nor employed by any of the parties to 10 11 this proceeding; And further, that I am not 12 financially or otherwise interested in the 13 outcome of this matter. 14 15 As Witness by my hand and signature as indicated below. 16 17 18 19 <%11870,Signature%> BRENDA STALEY 20 21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 CCAC Meeting [1 - 2024] 1 1 1:4 7:13 21:10 26:10 27:1 28:2 38:11 40:14,18 41:6 42:21 43:5 44:3,9,10 45:9,18 47:18 48:4 49:9 56:16 59:20 60:18 61:3 64:18,19 65:3 67:21 69:12 70:4,14 76:6 76:17 79:2 81:11,16 82:3 82:9,15 84:16 86:6 87:1,7,15 88:9,14,19 89:2,8 90:6,17 91:5 97:18 101:16 105:6 111:16 112:19 123:11 151:9 157:9 160:3,11 161:4 164:6 165:10 167:18 169:5 179:12 179:19 191:12 193:17,18 198:17 214:6 10 38:16 67:6 87:3 89:18 123:3 127:15 168:18 213:18 100 28:19 March 1, 2023 Page 1 100th 197:10 103 6:2 11 127:15 169:16 114th 176:10 11870 219:19 11th 173:21 123 6:3 12:45 1:5 218:9 218:10 131 6:4 14 214:8 147 6:7 15 5:6 155 6:8 168 6:9 170 6:11 172 6:14 18 68:3 1800s 175:16 1832 172:9 1863 173:8 1865 173:21 180:7 196:15 199:5 202:7 203:1 188 6:15 1892 213:1 19 123:15,16 1913 148:9 1917 174:3 1924 149:3 1938 149:14 1948 16:1 1965 94:15 1970s 112:17 1971 16:13 1972 95:2 111:14 1977 17:1 94:15 174:9 1982 205:19 1989 94:16 1a 21:10,20 27:1 28:2 40:14,15,18 41:7,7 42:7,21 43:5 45:9 48:5 49:13 50:1,21 53:10,13 54:5 55:10,19 56:3 56:16,16 62:7 62:8 64:18,19 64:20 65:18 68:1,8,18 69:13,16 70:4 70:12,16 84:13 84:15 179:12 180:1 191:3,12 193:11,18 198:17 205:2 206:5,15,21 214:8 2 2 1:3 19:13 20:21 22:1,10 22:12 28:1 40:8 42:2,21 44:5,6 45:19 47:13,18 49:14 50:8 51:13,14 52:8 53:7,20 54:8 55:16 56:3 57:3,6,12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 60:11 62:6,9,9 62:9 68:3 77:9 90:8,13,15 98:5 99:9 101:17 105:6 111:16 112:6 112:19 115:18 123:13 151:15 160:3,4 169:7 178:8 179:2,9 180:3 183:1,2 183:13 189:19 189:20,21 190:19 191:12 193:6 194:7,8 195:16 197:19 198:9 199:3,18 202:20 203:9 204:14 206:13 206:21 207:3 210:15,17,19 212:14 214:9 214:21 215:11 20 87:3 195:7 205:20 2002 94:16 2007 35:5 2012 17:4 2019 197:9 2022 50:11 2023 1:4 7:14 22:8 2024 5:5,12,18 6:6,12 10:8 14:15,18 15:4 66:19 73:8,11 93:8,12 146:15 146:18 171:12 CCAC Meeting [2024 - 6] 171:16 175:6 20th 15:19 17:8 21.6 197:6 213 6:16 215 6:18 217 6:19 21st 176:10 24.3 197:8 25 49:15 68:1,9 111:15 121:6 122:6,11 2a 21:4 22:1,16 22:17 28:2 42:21 47:15 68:4 98:5 111:17 112:6 112:19 115:18 123:14 201:18 202:13 3 3 22:19 23:7,20 45:19 46:7 47:7 57:3,4,6,7 58:8,11 61:3 62:13 67:21 68:5 70:2 76:8 77:16 90:8,9 105:6 151:19 152:3 157:21 163:14,15 169:9 180:11 180:15 200:15 201:1 214:11 214:15,16,17 30 67:20 68:8 90:6,7,7,18 123:11 169:5 March 1, 2023 Page 2 169:11,19 214:6,9 215:1 215:8 30s 191:17 198:1 35 19:20 37 5:8 3a 22:19 47:7 68:6 151:19 152:6 157:21 169:10 178:12 178:20,21 179:10 180:11 180:17 182:15 183:7 189:12 189:16 190:18 192:17 200:15 200:19 201:10 203:9 207:12 210:4 214:12 3b 151:2,19 152:9 153:17 155:9 156:9 157:4,21 158:1 158:17 159:4,8 160:3 161:3,15 162:12,21 163:6,13,20 164:13 165:7 165:16 167:8 168:3 169:11 169:19 4 4 78:1 90:10,11 96:18 97:15 98:9 105:6 106:19 107:3,5 107:7,12,13,20 111:5 114:1,2 114:20,21 116:3 117:9,11 117:13 120:12 121:12 123:15 124:21 125:5 126:9,12,13,21 127:8 128:14 129:2,8 130:6 131:17 132:14 132:16,18 133:10,11,15 135:13 136:3,4 137:5,8 141:7 141:20 152:15 158:10,14 159:6 169:13 180:20 181:1 200:5 214:13 214:14,18,20 40 205:14 4a 180:20 214:14 4s 140:1 5 5 78:6 81:18 86:17 90:12 96:18 97:7,7 98:15 99:11 100:8 104:13 105:5,8,16,20 106:5,20 107:4 107:10,13,19 107:21 108:15 110:11,12 114:1,4,4,20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 115:4,6 116:10 117:9 121:13 123:12,16 124:15,15,15 124:21 125:15 126:8,10,16,19 127:5,8,20 128:9 129:9 132:14 133:14 135:14 136:6 136:11 137:5,8 139:15 140:8 141:1,7,20 144:3,4,12 158:10 159:6 169:13 181:3 197:5,10 214:7 214:15,19 50 74:14 52nd 173:12 5a 78:6 81:18 90:14 152:19 157:15,18 164:11 169:14 181:3,6 214:16 5b 152:19 157:15 169:15 5s 139:21 166:13 6 6 68:5,6 123:13 123:14 153:2 159:16 162:4 163:1 166:19 167:11 169:16 181:9,11 214:17 CCAC Meeting [67 - adjourn] 67 5:9 68 5:10 6a 153:2,6 159:17 162:5 163:1 164:11 169:17 181:9 181:15 214:18 6b 181:18 214:19 6c 181:18 214:20 7 7 5:3 90:9 169:9,14 73 5:13 746 16:1 8 8 5:4 68:4 147:9 169:7,10 169:15 214:11 80 5:14 8th 1:8 9 9 169:6,17 214:12,13 90 5:15,17 93 5:20 9:00 1:5 9:01 7:2,14 a a.m. 1:5 7:2 able 25:7 27:2 28:12 38:3 60:5 61:14 79:19 96:10 103:19 116:11 March 1, 2023 Page 3 116:20 143:1 143:11 171:8 193:1 197:16 197:18 abolitionist 172:9 above 26:16,17 80:3 absolute 83:11 131:4 absolutely 25:1 45:9 53:16 162:10 185:19 absorb 196:9 196:12 abstain 134:10 145:4 abstention 145:6 abstentions 145:5 absurdity 16:3 academic 17:21 acceptable 63:3 110:12 acceptance 19:8 accepted 18:13 72:1,3 173:9 accessibility 54:13 accessible 53:8 accommodate 80:4,6 accomplished 20:7 51:9 accomplishm... 117:17 accomplishm... 20:3 49:18 163:17 accurate 188:8 accurately 50:17 achievement 75:21 achievements 73:1 75:18 aclu 16:4 act 95:4 107:8 120:17,18 149:2,6 acting 173:10 action 85:11 active 107:3 119:20 120:13 128:16 activist 15:15 148:15 152:10 152:18 153:5 156:11 157:19 159:12 161:14 162:11 activity 95:10 130:16 actual 23:21 41:17 actually 24:11 40:15 56:18 71:7 89:5 96:4 96:10 100:13 106:19 159:6 159:16 179:7 182:21 187:3,7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 187:10 196:18 203:6 204:8 add 21:3 22:15 25:12 26:21 58:18 65:17 101:5 108:14 108:20 216:15 added 9:18 51:16 124:17 154:12,19 155:9 adding 108:15 addition 46:1 179:4 additional 21:19 23:12,16 77:12,19 78:4 80:20 89:9,13 98:11,18 139:14 152:3,6 152:9,17 153:4 155:21 168:8 179:19 180:6 180:15,18 181:14,17,20 188:20 210:12 211:21 216:15 additionally 37:6 62:19 80:19 103:17 address 126:9 195:17 addressing 198:6 adds 105:18 adequate 53:8 adjourn 6:19 217:10 CCAC Meeting [adjourned - apologize] adjourned 218:3,9,10 adjournment 217:12 adjust 184:7 admit 114:9 adult 147:12 advance 48:17 advanced 168:2 advantage 107:10 198:8 advisory 1:1 2:2 7:13 advocacy 149:12 153:1 advocate 15:12 127:8 148:15 148:19 172:14 173:2 advocated 17:5 advocates 17:8 advocating 119:3 211:1 affairs 2:21 3:14,15 12:15 13:1,3 affected 94:5 affordable 94:19 affords 121:7 african 73:2 afro 74:4 75:2 afternoon 218:4 age 112:11,12 147:9 191:17 agenda 5:2 10:5 ago 104:20 114:19 158:9 176:9 205:14 agree 40:3 52:6 71:16 113:15 115:6 116:12 117:10 156:10 166:17 186:2 189:20 agreed 36:6 ah 32:15 ahead 34:2 58:21 124:10 177:3 air 118:10 al 83:8 albums 74:14 alfen 2:17 9:8 9:11 24:7,8,13 25:16 26:7,8 26:18 32:6,7 32:15 34:6 52:12 68:21,21 69:2 78:20,21 79:7 80:7 82:6 82:12,12 91:6 91:6 100:6,7 101:6,12 105:13,14 126:7 134:2,16 134:17 142:4,4 153:16,16 154:6 155:2 156:6,7 191:1 217:13 March 1, 2023 Page 4 allow 121:10 143:11 170:18 allowed 149:9 204:13 alongside 180:13,21 181:19 amazed 167:18 167:19 amazing 20:6 54:6 59:17 92:19 amend 71:14 amendment 71:19 72:4 amendments 95:2 america 19:18 22:11 42:5 128:20 129:1 american 2:10 5:5,12,18 6:6 6:12 8:17 10:9 10:10 13:14 14:15,19 15:4 33:5,20 38:20 43:6 50:18 66:19 72:21 73:2,8 74:1 84:9 93:8,12 94:2 106:10,14 108:2,3 122:8 146:15,18 148:8,16,17 149:6 159:21 160:7 167:2 170:20 171:12 171:16 177:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 197:10,12 208:5 americans 38:1 38:21 74:4 84:7 160:7 amorphous 192:20 amount 121:18 197:11 analysis 56:2 anchored 21:16 andrew 174:2 animate 160:20 annihilation 147:15 anniversary 176:10 197:10 announce 217:8 answer 34:12 76:4,10 anticipating 56:6 anybody 136:8 140:1 anybody's 202:9 anyway 34:13 158:17 189:17 189:20 apart 86:3 apologies 23:14 58:17 204:4,6 204:7 apologize 29:19 CCAC Meeting [apology - attendance] apology 63:18 appear 138:1 appearance 162:19 appeared 186:8 appears 153:18 191:21 208:12 applause 218:7 application 36:8 applied 16:16 apply 36:4 appreciate 17:11 44:2 46:19 48:3 54:18 87:20 92:10 175:10 177:10 206:18 207:9,13 208:1 213:15 appreciated 47:7,8 114:21 147:13 178:11 183:7 approaches 186:12 appropriate 134:18 135:1 138:2 166:21 178:4 206:6 appropriately 178:15 appropriaten... 31:10 april 3:2 5:7,13 5:20 6:7,14 11:8 14:21 March 1, 2023 Page 5 15:8 24:4 26:19 30:4 35:7 36:15 73:13,19 76:13 93:20 97:3 101:2 122:14 146:21 147:4 150:15 155:8 171:21 172:6 177:9 182:16 184:6 185:21 188:4 217:7 aquarium 25:18 architectural 195:21 area 215:9 areas 113:11 arena 117:18 aretha 85:20 argue 16:15 argued 16:11 argument 199:7 arguments 114:12 arm 32:2 208:12 209:6 213:4 arm's 130:3 army 173:10 180:16 205:20 art 8:8 23:19 28:3 43:4,5 45:7 47:3,4,5 55:13,14,17 61:19 65:15 86:10 88:16,17 89:8 91:2,3 99:6,7 114:15 114:16 134:3 137:15 138:19 143:19 144:9 161:8 163:3,4 166:20 200:2,3 207:21 209:3 217:14,17 arthur 2:5 8:6 article 16:14 articulate 15:17 89:5 articulated 64:2 141:16 168:1 artisan 60:1 artist 27:4 28:10,16,20 30:9,16 31:1 31:15 35:9,14 41:10 74:1 86:5 154:3,12 160:15 162:7 184:8 189:14 209:4,7,10,11 209:11,16 211:3 artist's 30:9 63:5 79:17 99:20 154:17 184:21 185:1,7 212:17 artistic 31:2 55:11 86:18 99:19 112:4 119:12 120:4 131:3 158:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 166:3,4,9,11 166:15 167:12 167:13 191:9 208:2 artistically 119:10 artists 35:8,10 36:4 38:9 39:16 86:11 165:1 arts 2:14 9:2 99:1 151:5 asian 106:10 106:13 108:2,3 aside 30:15 asked 166:21 182:18 asking 183:19 aspect 160:8 196:7 aspects 19:15 60:17 159:11 aspirations 48:18 assistance 95:11 assistant 173:11 associated 116:2 207:9 assuming 79:17 assurance 188:10 athlete 118:12 attend 147:9 attendance 2:1 3:1 4:1 170:16 CCAC Meeting [attendance - best] 217:4 attending 11:5 73:4 92:15 attention 130:3 131:2,6,8 170:18 attract 131:2 attracted 198:17 200:7 attractive 156:15 193:10 207:4 attribute 75:1 audience 82:19 88:7 audiences 74:18 aunt 40:6,17 150:9 author 148:16 152:10,17 153:5 156:11 159:11 161:14 162:11 autobiography 21:21 available 80:5 98:3 avenues 95:13 average 201:14 202:3 avoid 32:13 140:4 avoids 121:9 awarded 174:1 174:10 190:15 192:4 March 1, 2023 Page 6 aware 36:4 awareness 42:12 185:21 186:15 aye 72:5,6 91:12,13,15,17 132:4,5 142:11 142:12 145:1,2 215:21 216:1 217:19,20 azucar 74:17 74:21 77:4,20 85:8 b b 163:16 back 7:11 10:1 37:9 38:11 42:6 59:4,9,19 67:13,15 89:20 90:1 101:16 103:19 106:2 106:17 123:7 137:14 168:21 178:5,16,20 183:13 190:16 209:15 210:19 214:1 background 15:9 28:6 34:16 35:12 40:20 57:10 61:18 73:20 77:14 93:21 110:19 118:6 147:5 151:17 152:2 172:7 177:10 181:2 200:7 backs 49:20 bad 107:20 189:15 190:17 bader 16:11 52:2 badge 201:16 balance 43:13 43:18,21 64:4 121:8 204:18 balanced 41:19 57:12,13,15,18 balancing 58:2 ballet 160:7,8 balls 118:10 baltimore 18:4 25:18 banner 180:7 barriers 15:12 based 116:21 122:18 135:3 basically 100:16 basis 95:6 115:21 141:14 167:12 168:16 battle 175:20 battlelines 173:13 beautiful 43:16 44:11 86:6 106:11 114:5 157:16 162:10 164:7 165:2,2 210:18 beauty 43:18 47:21 48:4 87:20 89:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 115:12 163:1 211:9 becoming 94:12 began 7:17 16:4 74:18 147:19 belief 19:10 21:14 believe 27:14 51:12 75:5 79:15 127:5 138:7 believed 19:18 113:13 belongs 164:8 beneath 114:7 benefit 37:10 81:3 103:21 156:2 189:3 195:4 210:2 benefits 95:8 bernstein 2:5 8:6,8,8 23:18 23:19 24:6 47:4,5 88:17 88:18 91:3,4 99:7,8 114:16 114:17 134:4 138:21 139:3 143:17,19,20 144:9,10 163:3 163:4,5 200:2 200:3,4 217:14 217:14 bertha 176:12 best 31:3 58:8 62:16 83:2 CCAC Meeting [best - brown] 107:20 112:1 128:9 133:14 141:11 159:5 163:19 166:19 167:6 185:5 189:12 209:9 bet 111:17 better 50:4 56:17 57:20 58:3 62:4 64:21 92:21 106:19 108:16 111:5,6 120:6 121:8 126:12 126:17 128:7 128:20 129:1 130:6 133:14 135:16 141:1 161:3 167:11 beyond 64:8 bible 16:9 bienvenido 83:8 big 60:9 194:2 204:18 bigger 184:17 bing 39:6 biologist 25:7 bird 147:6 152:4,7 153:4 157:18 163:15 163:16,18 bishop 48:20 bit 24:14 28:4 31:20 40:15 49:6 54:7 56:4 85:13 87:9,10 101:9 108:16 March 1, 2023 Page 7 114:11 115:19 157:17 158:7 158:13 160:5 167:11 193:11 201:16 black 17:1 26:15 34:16,18 35:7,9,16 36:3 60:3,6,7 blah 184:10,10 184:10 blast 112:17 blob 192:20 bloomerized 172:21 180:13 blueprint 195:21 blurb 17:16 board 16:10 boarding 147:9 body 79:13,20 80:3 185:1 194:3 boldly 77:10 boneza 3:9 12:3 24:17 25:2 bonnin 4:8 14:4 148:18 149:17 150:7,8 150:9 170:15 170:21 book 16:2,7 19:5 128:13 151:21 152:20 158:3 books 23:2 47:10 57:10 bookshelf 23:3 57:21 58:4 border 181:16 borer 3:6 11:17 11:19 154:2 born 83:15 94:2 149:4 172:9 195:5 boston 175:16 bothered 198:2 bottom 47:17 78:11 180:7 216:21 bought 50:10 boyhood 175:11 boys 105:3 bracelet 100:14 braided 162:8 167:1,3 brandon 4:14 10:19 breadth 47:11 break 122:9 breaking 191:6 breathe 121:11 brenda 219:2 219:19 brendan 3:14 12:21 brevity 87:20 brief 16:18 67:12 89:19 91:16 120:10 123:5 128:1 164:2 168:19 182:8 213:19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 brilliant 53:17 brilliantly 42:1 bring 27:2 30:16 53:3 bringing 86:11 145:14 160:16 170:17 brings 159:6 194:6 broach 24:10 25:4 broadly 35:8 broke 15:11 172:14 brought 84:1 108:7 135:14 brown 2:3 4:7 7:8 9:13,17 14:3 16:10 45:4 48:13 51:1,12 52:13 54:11 55:3 56:11 63:12,14 64:15 69:7 70:8 84:20 86:13 89:4,21 104:17 105:14 106:8 109:2 115:11 120:9 121:16 124:10 124:11 127:11 131:13 134:16 156:7 157:8 158:20 161:21 164:4,18 169:1 170:15 182:4 187:1 188:4 191:2 194:21 CCAC Meeting [brown - cfa's] 196:5 198:12 201:8 203:13 203:16 204:4,9 206:16 209:19 212:10 215:6 buck 69:15 135:8 building 98:11 98:17 110:19 211:14 built 32:17 bunker 175:13 175:14,19 business 216:19 bust 198:8 busts 31:13 32:4 33:1 busy 105:7 107:21 111:7 111:18,18 113:15 115:19 128:17 c call 5:3,4 7:3 7:11 8:1,5 13:13 109:7 132:10,13 149:17 213:12 called 11:6 19:5 175:14 calling 37:11 81:4 104:1 156:3 189:4 camps 190:11 candidate 10:8 14:18 15:3 March 1, 2023 Page 8 20:17 21:10 23:9 31:4 66:18 73:10,16 78:14 93:11,17 146:17 150:19 151:9 153:7 171:16 172:3 182:1 candidates 43:1 canvas 197:14 capacity 43:3 capitol 98:10 98:17 110:19 114:8 118:5 119:11 capture 81:16 81:17 130:2 captured 78:2 173:14 captures 105:8 129:2 198:4 car 176:16 cardinal 152:8 152:11 care 25:12 50:14 75:9 173:14 185:11 career 76:2 94:6 careful 102:11 carefully 33:6 caribbean 75:3 carried 72:12 92:5 142:18 146:2 216:5 218:2 carries 72:10 92:4 142:17 146:1 216:4 carter 174:9 cartouche 28:6 case 16:9 33:17 44:15 120:11 122:8 138:1 cast 33:15 casting 136:8 castle 173:17 catch 34:4 catches 40:13 catching 130:7 192:21 catchphrase 74:17 77:4 caught 27:9 causes 179:21 ccac 2:20 7:7 7:21 9:15 10:15 12:16,19 67:16 90:2 123:8 137:13 169:2 170:8 214:3 216:10 217:1 ccr03 76:9 celebrate 96:11 celebrating 74:2 celia 4:5 5:12 10:11 13:18 73:8,12 75:14 75:17,19 77:1 77:9,17 78:1,7 79:3,18 85:4,5 85:14,18 86:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 86:2 88:3 92:12 93:2,6 celia's 76:2,12 celiz 73:21 cemented 20:7 95:19 cent 205:20 center 178:19 centered 148:10 178:15 central 175:17 cents 49:15 111:15 121:7 122:6,11 century 15:20 17:8 177:3 ceremonial 148:11 certainly 27:9 43:13 53:11,21 83:1 103:3 156:1 217:3 certificate 219:1 certify 219:3 cetera 135:12 cfa 21:2,7 22:14 40:11 44:20 45:21 51:14 54:2 69:15 76:20 77:8 97:9 151:1 152:14 178:10 179:6 180:10 183:3 cfa's 127:6 185:8,20 195:17 CCAC Meeting [chair - chorus] chair 2:4 7:9 7:11 8:2,10,13 8:16,19 9:1,5,8 9:12,15 10:3 11:2,11,14,17 11:20 12:3,5,9 12:13,18,21 13:5,8,11 14:16 23:11 27:16 31:7 34:7 36:13,19 37:2 39:19 43:8,10 47:2 48:8 51:2 52:10 54:18 56:5 58:13 59:2 61:10 63:11,18 65:4 65:9 66:6,10 66:16 67:15 68:11,19 69:2 70:6 71:9,16 71:18 72:1,3,7 72:9,13,16 73:9 78:16 80:9,15 82:4,7 82:10 83:4 84:17 86:14 87:11,19 88:2 88:15,21 89:3 89:12,16 90:1 90:19 91:1,8 91:11,14,19 92:1,6 93:7,10 99:2 101:13 103:7,12 104:15 105:11 106:1,6 107:15 March 1, 2023 Page 9 109:1 110:5 113:2,6 114:14 115:10 117:5 118:17 120:7 121:15 122:13 122:17 123:7 123:18 124:2 125:2,17 126:5 127:9,17 128:10 129:5 129:12 131:10 131:18 132:2,6 132:11,15,19 133:1,5,7,9,12 133:18 134:1,3 134:5,7,9,9,12 134:21 136:15 136:17 138:2 138:14 139:5 139:11,11 140:4,7,14 141:12 142:2,6 142:9,13,17,19 143:4,8,18 144:7,7,15,17 144:21 145:3,5 145:9,20 146:13,16 153:9 155:4,7 155:14,16 156:19 157:6 158:21 161:18 163:2,21 164:3 164:16 165:20 167:15 168:11 168:16,21 169:20 170:2,6 170:12 171:2 171:14,20 182:3,9,11 186:21 188:11 188:16 190:20 193:13 194:18 198:13,16 200:1 201:5 202:14 203:12 203:18 204:1,6 206:17 208:16 210:8,11,16 211:18 212:12 213:14,21 215:4,12,16,20 216:2,4,6,13 217:11,16,21 218:3 chairman 23:10 34:10 37:18 40:2 51:6 69:20 81:10 83:7 87:14 110:8 113:1 122:4 127:18 128:11 139:1,8 143:17 157:1 159:3 161:17 202:18 challenge 30:1 55:4,5,20 115:16 challenged 18:1 challenges 29:21 challenging 29:4,9 62:17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 chance 69:16 change 25:7,8 86:8 109:21 130:4 139:16 139:18 140:13 209:9 changes 211:12 character 33:14 characteristic 22:2 checking 154:3 chicago 176:12 176:15 chief 3:2,11 11:8 14:21 27:3 30:7 61:11 73:13 93:14 146:4 171:21 186:2 childcare 94:19 children 108:3 choice 40:8,10 46:15,16 51:15 53:11 69:15,16 76:8 82:2 85:16 99:20 104:14 135:12 137:21 138:9 140:19 144:12 156:9,17 157:3 161:15 189:19 choices 54:15 choose 45:17 117:6 137:8 chorus 72:6 91:13 132:5 142:12 145:2 CCAC Meeting [chorus - come] 216:1 217:20 chose 44:5 48:16 chosen 76:6 church 17:4 48:17 49:1 churches 49:4 circle 145:12 circulating 44:14 55:12 168:7 circulation 87:3 circumstances 194:14 citizen 83:16 84:10 149:4 citizens 1:1 2:2 7:12 149:8 citizenship 149:2,3,7 city 175:4 civil 15:14,21 16:21 42:13 95:17 172:13 173:5 179:1 180:2,16,19 181:1,14,17 183:9,11 186:10 189:21 190:8 191:16 198:1 199:6,10 200:7 203:2 207:6,11,14 civilian 173:11 clarification 109:2,5,18 125:18 146:4 March 1, 2023 Page 10 clarified 14:13 clarify 103:6 182:14 classroom 113:18 clause 16:15 clear 34:19 64:10 118:11 137:3 169:18 clearly 40:9 64:21 191:13 203:2 clerical 23:4 clever 31:15,20 191:9 click 9:20 10:1 close 180:3,20 closely 27:4 30:8 177:16 209:3 211:3 closing 202:12 clothing 172:16 172:17,20,21 177:20 178:3 180:13 181:11 clutter 117:21 cluttered 126:14 coach 118:13 coauthor 16:18 codified 35:5 coffee 74:20 coin 4:16 10:21 29:21 30:1 31:19 32:14 34:15 38:4,12 38:13 39:5 41:3 44:14 45:6 49:12 51:10 53:1 55:16 56:18 60:5 62:2 66:5 75:17 79:20 80:5 81:17 83:19 85:7,10 86:19 87:18 99:11,13 108:5 108:12 109:15 113:8 115:8 118:2,7,15 120:20 129:21 130:14 153:19 154:10 158:1 158:18 162:18 165:18 168:7 195:10 197:1,6 197:13,15 198:7 199:2 201:17 202:2 203:10 215:11 coinability 28:13 coinable 30:11 coinage 1:1 2:2 7:12 55:12,14 coining 63:3 coins 33:16 38:16,17,21 39:13 49:20 57:14 61:21 62:11 96:10 102:1 106:14 107:2 108:9 113:17,18 160:6 166:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 collaborated 148:7 collaboration 22:7 collar 23:4 colleague 40:4 colleagues 43:11 48:1 52:16 55:6 89:6 115:20 167:17 168:1 195:4 collected 147:21 collectors 109:15 206:9 college 18:2 105:2 collegiate 95:15 color 15:13 16:2 35:2,6 94:13 combat 174:4 combination 178:9 179:7,8 180:10 183:4 combine 182:18 combined 74:15 combines 159:5 come 20:8 49:8 50:5 54:3 56:21 59:4 103:19 121:4 142:21 150:14 CCAC Meeting [comes - connections] comes 39:4 57:1 61:21 102:10 127:15 comfortable 60:14 173:1 coming 105:2 174:19 comite 83:9 commemorat... 197:6 205:21 comment 31:8 36:14,15 51:10 59:7 61:11 69:21 89:15 102:2 108:7 116:21 127:21 128:2 140:12 141:13,14 187:1,3 210:15 commenting 30:20 31:9 comments 23:12,16 27:17 34:8 37:5,7,14 43:10 49:5 51:3 56:4,9 58:8,15 64:17 65:18 80:10,18 87:16,17 89:6 89:9,13 92:16 103:16 113:3 115:19 134:20 136:16 155:5 155:19 168:8 168:12,15 188:19 194:16 197:3 203:20 208:1,7 210:13 March 1, 2023 Page 11 211:21 216:15 commission 99:1 151:5 committee 2:2 7:13 8:4 17:12 27:17 36:21 37:19,21 49:6 58:15 59:5,6 63:13,20 66:13 66:17 68:11 71:8 75:10 78:18 80:11 83:9 89:17 96:3 99:3 100:1 103:8 123:19 129:19 131:14,16 135:5 136:19 139:13,15 143:1 149:19 153:12 155:5 170:3,10 174:17 177:11 182:5 188:13 197:2 208:8 215:9 committee's 68:8 186:15 commonly 96:19 97:20 communal 149:10 communicati... 3:18 13:6 communicati... 187:13 comparisons 206:12 compelled 162:4 compelling 159:18 compete 160:18 complete 41:12 completed 151:12 completely 48:2 190:5 compliment 164:21 composer 152:11,18 153:5 156:11 159:12 161:14 162:11 composition 178:12 179:9 183:6,15 211:11 concept 195:18 conceptualize 60:3 concern 184:13 186:7 concerned 103:3 concerns 60:9 185:8 192:16 195:17 conclude 107:18 183:17 concluded 72:18 92:7 216:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 concludes 23:9 78:14 153:7 182:1 concur 51:11 104:12 confederate 173:15 confess 115:17 203:14 confidence 193:21 confirm 11:4 confirmed 154:2 conflicted 52:18 54:10 confused 114:9 confusing 210:5 confusion 36:9 140:4 congratulate 38:9 congress 94:14 94:15,17 110:21 111:2,9 111:9,10,13 congressional 62:13 129:18 130:19 202:4 congresswo... 129:15 conjure 42:14 connection 206:19 connections 85:2 CCAC Meeting [consecutive - cute] consecutive 94:14,16 consider 69:13 116:1 141:17 170:4,10 consideration 5:8,14 6:2,8,15 37:1,3 80:14 80:16 103:11 103:14 118:21 136:18 155:15 155:17 177:20 188:15,17 194:15 considerations 81:7 104:5 considered 148:8 cont'd 3:1 4:1 6:1 contact 157:20 contain 96:20 contemplative 160:13 contemplativ... 23:1 context 200:10 continue 73:5 95:20 213:16 continued 72:20 94:8 149:13 173:2 174:6 continuing 143:10 contract 173:10 March 1, 2023 Page 12 contrarian 111:20 contrast 166:6 contributed 51:21 contributes 211:6 contributions 18:18 92:11 156:13 convention 167:5 conventional 172:12 conversation 59:10,13 71:11 205:13 206:4 convey 49:17 50:20 53:6,19 54:7 conveyed 49:17 conveys 117:15 convictions 94:7 copies 16:5 copy 61:7 corporate 3:18 13:6 correct 26:13 34:20 51:15 79:4 100:12 102:9 132:12 correction 170:7 correctly 40:20 79:3 corsets 172:18 costello 3:12 12:10,12 66:15 89:14 168:14 costumes 74:16 council 148:17 counsel 3:17 12:19,19 67:16 70:6,7,8 71:2 90:2 123:8 169:2 214:2 219:8 counter 130:5 country 18:14 50:2 83:13,15 83:17,18 84:5 143:10 counts 61:19 couple 106:20 110:14 116:18 166:18 186:12 course 34:18 111:12 124:6 212:18 court 16:13,19 37:10 81:3 103:21 156:2 189:3 cover 219:5 cowritten 16:14 cradle 22:3 cramped 121:9 crazy 45:9 create 31:15 created 179:15 creative 112:4 creatively 33:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 crescent 181:7 critically 179:2 cross 21:3 22:15 23:4 46:1 51:16 52:8 102:6 crossed 173:13 crosses 102:3 102:15,18 crossing 128:15,19 cruz 4:5 5:12 10:11 13:18 73:8,12,21 74:6 75:14,17 77:1,9,17 78:1 78:7 79:4 85:5 85:5 88:3 92:12 93:2 cry 75:1 cuba 75:3 85:3 cuban 73:21 74:3,20 cultural 74:2 culture 74:3 147:15,17 151:11 cultures 151:16 curator 9:10 curious 28:2 29:3 124:20 current 135:14 cursor 48:11 customs 172:15 cut 208:15 209:5 cute 201:16 CCAC Meeting [cutting - design] cutting 184:20 189:13 190:8 d d 5:1 6:1 dakota 147:8 dance 78:3 148:10,11,11 dark 21:17 darker 154:16 dashes 109:13 date 194:9,10 194:12 196:14 202:7 daughter 13:21 106:10 131:7 135:20 day 1:3 7:6,16 7:16 18:9 50:4 143:14 days 202:12 dazzling 74:6 77:2 dc 1:8 dealing 50:6 dean 2:9 8:16 38:14 39:20 40:2 58:20 65:4,9,10 87:12,14 110:6 110:7 113:16 122:2,4 127:17 128:10,12 131:19 133:5 138:20 139:6,8 159:1,3 204:4 dear 110:9 March 1, 2023 Page 13 death 110:18 149:14 176:11 176:17 debate 122:5 decades 74:13 decide 141:6 decided 115:20 decides 138:7 decision 54:15 86:21 118:9 121:20 183:21 decisions 117:2 decisive 143:6 decisively 143:2 declare 26:3 dedicated 95:17 defer 110:2 139:4 164:12 definitely 154:20 delaware 128:15,19 deliberations 179:11 delimiter 145:13,17 delimiters 99:19 109:8,10 115:7 116:13 121:10 124:17 144:2,13 demass 4:10 14:9 174:14,16 174:18,21 175:1 195:1 212:11,13 213:9,15 216:9 216:12,14 demonstrated 47:11 denied 95:8 denigrate 33:19 dennis 2:15 9:5 27:18 29:1 54:21,21 55:3 56:5 68:12,13 71:16 84:18 106:8 111:5 120:7 124:2,12 131:11 133:3 157:6,8 159:9 160:11 194:19 194:21 209:20 215:5 depending 130:21 depict 22:1,20 78:6 151:19 153:2 180:20 181:9 191:13 193:7 depicted 85:14 depiction 114:5 179:14 180:18 201:3 211:9 depictions 32:1 167:3 191:20 depicts 77:9 78:1 97:19 98:9 151:9 180:3 depth 72:19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 deputy 201:15 describe 155:12 describes 114:20 description 151:6 deservedly 64:8 deserves 51:17 51:17 52:4 design 3:2,4,5 3:7,8,10,13 11:9,12,15,17 11:20 12:5,11 15:1 19:13,17 21:1,4 22:8,16 24:17 28:1,10 31:15 35:11 36:21 44:3,3 44:11,17 45:9 45:17 47:13,15 47:16 53:9,17 54:6 57:3 59:14 60:7 62:5,14 66:13 67:21 68:1,2,3 68:4,5,8,9,18 73:14 76:7,17 76:21 83:1 84:12 85:16 86:6 87:8 89:7 90:6,8,9,10,12 90:14,17,17 91:5 93:12,15 97:7,7 98:9,13 98:19 99:9 105:17 108:1 CCAC Meeting [design - discover] 108:15,19 113:8 114:21 115:3,4,6 116:3,5,10,16 117:13 119:3,6 121:13,14 123:11,13,14 123:15,16 126:11,15 127:2 128:18 129:14,14 130:6,7 131:17 136:2 141:1 144:12 146:20 151:2,3,9,9 152:3,12,15 153:6 154:1,4 156:9,17 157:10,14 158:9 159:13 162:10,14 163:7 164:7 166:4,10 167:18 168:4 169:5,7,9,10 169:11,13,16 169:17 171:16 172:1 178:8,9 178:14,17 179:2,12,19 180:3,8,15 181:1,6,11 183:1,4,15 184:7,8 188:5 193:10 195:16 196:18 197:20 199:12 200:5 200:15 201:11 March 1, 2023 Page 14 204:15 206:13 206:14 207:12 208:13,14 209:4 210:4,17 210:19,21 211:4 214:6,8 214:9,10,11,21 215:11 designed 200:18 designs 10:8 14:18 15:3 20:17 21:10 22:6,20 23:10 27:1,3 31:5 36:6 38:10 39:11,12 42:9 43:16,19 45:14 45:20 47:18,19 48:4,6 55:8 60:15 63:6 66:18 73:11,16 76:11 78:15,19 93:17 106:18 107:1,13 111:4 111:21 114:2 114:20 115:18 117:20 118:9 119:4 126:4 135:12 141:4 141:11 146:17 150:20 152:19 153:2,8,13 157:2 158:5 159:15 162:1,9 164:12 165:2 166:8,12 167:13 172:3 177:12 178:2 179:13 180:11 180:20 181:3,9 181:18 182:2 198:20,20 desire 73:5 171:7 desired 186:8 desk 23:1 despite 45:12 63:7 detail 81:20 100:12 179:15 194:5 197:11 197:17 details 38:3 202:10 determination 212:16 213:10 determined 151:20 174:3 212:16 devastated 61:2 development 93:15 device 31:18 102:13 dfasam 2:3 diagonals 130:10,15 dialog 131:14 dials 100:21 diamond 110:1 152:1 153:18 153:19 154:5 difference 188:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 different 28:11 29:5,21 45:10 55:19 56:14 64:1 96:19 99:15 102:16 109:16 119:6 119:19 122:11 161:6 184:13 189:16 196:5 198:19 200:13 205:15 206:2 differently 187:18 196:10 difficult 62:20 80:1 183:18,20 difficulties 30:13 difficulty 134:13 dignified 159:13 diminish 136:3 diminishes 141:5 dining 74:20 diocese 48:20 direction 84:6 159:20 170:8 directive 118:15 directly 15:16 149:1 157:21 162:17 director 2:20 12:14 209:3 discover 206:12 CCAC Meeting [discretion - dressed] discretion 99:20 145:21 discrimination 16:12 94:4 95:9 discuss 96:15 discussed 127:12 discussion 10:7 43:14 71:11 72:17 91:9 92:7 101:20 124:6,14 125:11 126:3 128:8 131:20 138:18 142:7 144:18 170:13 200:14,17 210:4 215:18 216:6 disquieted 27:10 distinction 187:15 193:2 distinctive 78:13 distinguish 99:14 distinguished 73:21 distract 49:11 49:12 distribute 16:4 divided 140:21 141:10 dividends 44:16,17 March 1, 2023 Page 15 doable 28:14 doctor 172:20 document 36:17 documents 19:1 doing 64:11 91:21 136:6 191:15,16 192:4 dollar 121:7 122:6 197:8 dolly 85:20 dominated 74:11 dot 100:5 110:2 dots 99:10,13 99:17 108:8,10 108:15,20 109:10,18 double 166:11 166:15 167:12 downside 207:5 dr 4:11 6:12 7:8 8:10,12,16 8:18 9:8,11,12 9:16 10:12 14:6 15:10,11 17:18 21:11 22:2,20 24:7 24:13 25:16 26:7,18 32:6 32:15 34:6,9 34:15,21 35:18 37:15,17 39:8 39:8,20 40:1,4 42:10,15 45:4 45:13 47:9 48:13 51:1,8 51:11 52:12,12 54:11 55:2 56:11 58:18,20 59:1 63:14 64:15 65:10,21 66:20 68:21 69:7 78:20 79:7 80:7 82:6 82:12 83:6,11 84:13,15,19,21 86:13 87:13 89:21 91:6 100:6 101:6,12 101:14 102:20 103:5 104:17 105:13,13 106:3,7,14 110:7 120:8 121:16 122:3 124:10,11 125:3,9 126:7 127:11,18 128:11 131:13 133:6,8 134:2 134:16,16 137:16 138:6 139:7 140:6 142:4 153:16 154:6 155:2 156:6,6,21 157:7 158:20 159:2 161:21 164:4,18 171:13,17 172:8 173:4,20 174:9 175:5,13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 176:1,5,12,12 176:13,14,15 176:17,19 178:4 179:14 180:1,4,12,18 180:21 181:4 181:10,12,19 182:10,12 183:16 184:15 185:12,17 186:19 188:4,7 191:1,1,5,8 192:18 193:15 193:20 194:20 195:11 196:4,4 196:14 198:3 198:12 199:13 201:8 202:7 203:16,16,19 204:3,3,8,9 205:7,18,19 206:16 207:9 208:10,14,19 208:21 209:19 212:10 215:6 217:13 draft 19:13 draw 131:6,8 193:1 drawn 53:12 54:5 61:6 157:9,15 191:3 204:21 dress 77:3 173:2 177:1 200:21 206:5 dressed 181:10 CCAC Meeting [due - engraver] due 39:15 duty 50:17,18 dynamic 77:1 82:16 87:8 119:7,14 120:13 129:21 130:2,7,11 dynamically 129:2 dynamism 88:10 126:15 160:4 dynamo 88:5 e e 5:1 6:1 7:1,1 66:1 184:14 eagle 151:13 earlier 87:17 140:19 early 175:16 198:1 ears 213:12 easier 49:2 61:1 100:4 easily 202:2 easy 48:21 53:11 eat 171:9 echo 55:5 85:1 economics 148:20 edge 79:12,20 99:10,13 115:8 editor 10:19,21 editorializing 30:19 62:3 130:9 March 1, 2023 Page 16 educate 20:5 38:19 education 16:10 94:6 95:1,4,9 98:12 98:19 107:9 114:7 120:18 121:3 147:13 147:18 148:19 151:12 educational 98:3 117:17 edwards 4:11 6:13 10:12 14:6,8 171:13 171:17,18,20 172:8 179:14 180:2 181:12 184:15 195:12 efficient 121:21 efforts 72:20 143:11 173:5 either 57:16 60:14 113:15 124:16 125:20 136:10 137:21 140:21 141:2 149:17 159:19 190:11 elaborate 74:16 78:3 elbows 129:15 eleanor 22:8 electric 176:16 electrified 74:18 electronically 67:3 123:2 212:6 219:4 elegance 105:19 115:5 117:14 126:19 136:13 210:21 211:8 elegant 52:4 86:3 105:17 114:5,19 126:10 element 22:21 115:2 116:5 211:2,4,10 elements 157:14 159:5 168:4 eligible 174:5 eloquent 54:12 eloquently 52:17 elton 85:20 elvis 85:20 emblem 197:12 emblematic 22:4 embrace 74:4 embraced 52:2 137:1 embraces 26:5 embracing 96:19 eminently 130:1 emotional 83:21 emphasis 50:21 179:18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 employed 219:9 employment 148:20 empowerment 181:8 enacted 35:5 encircled 97:21 encouragement 65:14 endeared 74:8 endeavors 18:19 endorse 195:16 endorsement 158:19 198:11 endured 94:3 energetic 74:7 88:11 energy 77:15 78:8 117:11 126:15 136:4 engage 82:18 129:20 157:19 206:11 engaged 30:15 206:4 engagement 162:19,20 163:8 engages 157:21 engaging 112:1 156:15 159:13 english 148:1 engraver 3:11 12:9 27:3 30:8 61:12 146:5 186:3 CCAC Meeting [engraving - fact] engraving 3:13 12:11 118:18 enlarged 98:6 180:17 183:8 enslaved 75:2 ensure 27:5 30:9 36:7 ensured 188:6 entertain 208:6 217:12 entire 17:6 150:13 entirety 197:13 entitled 19:11 environmental 94:20 episcopal 17:2 17:3 48:16 49:1 episcopalian 48:19 equal 16:15 18:13,18 19:11 22:6 95:4 98:12 107:8 120:18 121:3 equality 58:2 94:18 95:18 158:12 179:20 equally 124:8 141:4 equity 36:8 95:20 98:18 114:7 117:17 era 172:13,18 181:1 especially 89:8 192:17 March 1, 2023 Page 17 esq 3:16 5:9,16 6:3,10,17 essential 111:8 essentially 26:15 31:16 32:14,19 100:11 191:18 estate 17:19 62:1,12 75:15 76:5 77:7 estate's 77:21 esteemed 146:4 et 135:12 european 108:9 evaluate 102:8 evaluation 102:16 evans 3:8 11:20 eventually 18:6 34:4 35:3 94:9 148:2 everybody 7:5 56:15 65:5,15 93:3 107:19 117:10 194:11 everyone's 61:18 evidently 62:14 evolved 32:19 32:20 exactly 20:6 46:17 example 102:12 186:11 excellent 41:6 104:13 106:21 159:15 164:12 exchange 173:19 excited 86:7 96:9 150:13 excluded 95:7 excuse 9:16 14:7 45:4 189:20 executing 30:13 executor 17:18 75:14 exercise 138:2 exhilarating 77:14 exists 32:9 33:21 expected 217:6 experiences 147:20 experimental... 56:15 explanatory 118:14 exposed 16:3 express 35:15 52:16 84:4 96:6 expressing 166:7 expression 54:12 151:20 152:16 exquisite 164:21 extended 82:17 extent 16:3 43:4 44:16 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 129:8 extremely 20:12,12 117:1 168:6 exuberant 77:19 eye 27:9 40:14 130:7 157:9,20 162:19,19 163:8 192:21 eyeglass 21:12 eyes 19:10 53:14 78:11 204:20 f face 21:12 27:11 28:5 41:9 59:20 60:20 135:17 212:15,17 213:11 facilitate 28:12 facp 2:3 facsimile 23:21 fact 24:4 26:2 27:10 36:20 43:17 45:12 46:8 57:7 59:21 70:1 113:11 137:18 140:18 146:21 171:3,4,7 187:4 188:21 189:12 191:6 191:15 192:3 193:19 198:7 201:11 202:6 CCAC Meeting [fact - first] 207:2,14 factors 108:8 facts 43:12 failed 134:15 fails 134:14 fair 25:16 fairly 140:20 189:17 fake 57:17 familiar 61:17 135:18 206:10 families 94:20 105:1 family 18:4 19:13,21 20:11 20:21 21:7 22:13 27:14 39:15 40:10 44:5,21 45:21 46:19 51:13 52:7 53:21 59:18 60:13 76:5 95:21 96:17 97:8,12 98:14,20 101:5 129:20 130:8 131:1,6 149:15 150:5,21 151:3 152:13 157:11 159:10 163:14 164:13 168:2 177:17 178:7 180:9 185:7 186:5 188:1 212:14 family's 31:11 42:3 54:14 96:6 127:5 March 1, 2023 Page 18 155:10 156:8 156:16 157:3 162:13 182:15 182:20 184:9 famous 13:14 170:20 208:5 fan 126:20 194:2 fans 74:9 fantastic 44:3 44:11 53:16 73:2 92:11 170:17 far 52:17 182:21 198:21 farm 172:17 fashioned 150:4 father 175:15 favor 72:5 87:7 87:15 91:12 119:5 127:4 132:3,20 142:10 145:1 204:15 215:21 217:19 favorite 57:5 58:12 184:9 212:20 feather 151:14 feature 98:5 152:19 179:13 180:12 181:19 featured 21:19 features 22:9 22:10,17 23:7 77:16 151:15 180:1,17 featuring 98:2 february 176:9 federal 20:4 95:10 217:7 feedback 10:2 131:15 feel 49:10 54:9 66:7 88:9 124:21 142:20 143:1 197:18 feeling 184:6 211:16 feet 119:20 fell 59:19 felt 26:2 27:15 44:9 59:20 60:10,11 107:9 140:2 147:13 160:17 163:9 178:1,14 179:1 179:6 183:10 209:10,11 female 12:1 62:8 102:6,7 102:19,21 187:17 205:6 field 26:12,15 35:10,17 36:1 56:20 154:11 fields 75:4 fifth 171:14 fight 95:20 fighting 22:5 figure 181:4,10 199:1 201:12 211:5 figured 41:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 filled 98:7 final 7:15 34:7 58:7 182:17 183:18 finally 13:12 49:8 78:6 98:15 173:7,9 181:18 185:13 financial 95:10 financially 18:1 219:12 find 47:14 52:20 53:7 54:4 81:14 121:1 126:10 126:13 156:14 163:6 195:15 206:11 fine 45:20 99:1 105:4 108:17 109:21 110:10 110:12 151:5 167:8 209:1 fires 104:10 first 14:17 17:1 20:17 38:8 45:7 47:19 48:15 49:9 51:7 56:8 59:8 63:6 86:19 94:12 97:6,7 98:19 113:8 117:20 119:12 127:19 148:8 150:2 151:8 161:12 164:20 173:9 185:14 CCAC Meeting [five - generation] five 37:5,14 74:13 80:19 103:17 110:10 125:14 155:19 188:19 fix 100:4 flashing 77:1 77:18 flavor 216:16 flight 157:18 flipped 48:2 floor 1:8 focus 111:16 focuses 117:15 folks 96:12 follow 35:1 following 10:6 10:10 11:4 59:3 136:19 force 52:4 forced 75:3 forceful 191:4 foreground 110:20 forgive 132:7,8 forgiveness 38:6 form 30:10 62:5 151:14 176:6 190:17 formal 98:21 130:13 formally 109:9 former 24:3 75:14 176:6 forms 84:2 153:1 March 1, 2023 Page 19 fort 176:7 forth 59:19 fortified 19:9 fortunate 165:6 forward 30:16 31:2 96:14 117:2 171:11 fought 15:14 17:5 18:8 94:18 found 19:7 33:7 81:19 135:15 163:11 172:17,20 189:19 foundation 17:20 19:12 20:1 foundations 15:18 founded 148:17 founder 10:21 17:19 four 86:19 125:14 173:16 fourth 146:16 191:7 framed 21:12 frankly 28:18 36:10 183:17 fray 56:20 free 142:20 143:1 freethinker 172:10 friend 176:11 friendly 71:18 72:4 103:15 friends 176:14 friendship 22:7 front 16:12 64:3 66:21 98:10 115:13 122:21 152:16 153:3 192:18 202:7 212:4 216:10,10 frosted 50:11 50:12 87:5 154:15 frosting 154:20 fruition 150:14 full 28:18 79:14 178:3 179:13 181:4 181:10 198:21 200:19 fuller 2:6 8:10 8:12 32:2 34:9 34:10,15,21 35:18 37:16,17 39:8 40:4 59:1 79:13 83:6,11 84:13,15,21 101:14,15 102:20 103:5 106:3,4,14 125:3,4,9 133:8 137:16 137:17 138:6 156:21 182:12 182:13 183:16 185:12,17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 186:19 193:15 193:16 196:14 208:10,11,14 208:19,21 fully 36:17 185:7,15 195:17 fun 81:15,15,15 111:21 190:11 fundamental 31:18 further 27:16 59:10 71:11 103:7,13,18 118:19 122:19 142:6 170:9,13 170:13 219:11 future 19:2,4 112:18 128:20 129:1 145:15 197:3 210:10 g g 7:1 gallery 110:16 161:8 gauge 71:6 gay 26:3 gender 16:12 25:8 94:18 95:18 172:15 genderless 25:9 general 2:4,5,8 8:7,14 9:13 42:11 43:20 generation 94:1 CCAC Meeting [generations - granted] generations 74:10 generic 41:15 genius 41:10 george 4:10 14:9 128:15 129:3 174:13 175:1 212:11 gertrude 147:7 gesturing 77:10 getter 169:12 169:18 215:1 getting 41:5,14 41:17,18 69:16 76:2 163:19 194:13 gifted 148:6 gill 2:8 8:13,15 51:4,5 81:8,9 81:10 104:16 104:17,18 133:10 164:17 164:18,19 202:16,17,18 ginsberg 16:11 16:17 52:2 ginsberg's 16:17 girls 105:1,1 give 17:15 43:10 61:17 67:4 116:20 118:19 126:8 147:16 149:7 151:6 163:15 166:4,11,14 167:7,9 184:16 March 1, 2023 Page 20 194:15 205:1 208:17 given 32:10 64:2 71:6 154:12 215:7 gives 17:21 111:7,10 158:7 161:10 210:20 giving 115:15 119:13 160:2 206:14 glamorous 77:17 go 29:10 38:11 41:7 42:6 52:19 58:3,5 58:21 60:18,19 67:9 86:19 97:6,10 101:16 105:20 118:13 124:9 126:6 127:10 136:14 137:14 159:19 161:7 162:12 168:3 171:6,10 178:16,20 183:13 189:1 190:13,14 194:7 200:21 201:7 202:19 203:17,21 204:2,14 210:19 goals 48:18 god 19:8,9 god's 19:10 goes 46:12 79:12 88:13 going 7:7 17:15 17:15 23:14,15 33:3,4 34:17 34:17 36:2 38:5,6,17,18 39:12 41:2 42:13,17 43:9 44:12,14,19 46:17,18 47:5 50:8,12,13,20 51:7,11 56:6 56:14 58:5 63:13,19,20,21 64:5,6,19 66:11 67:9 70:18 79:21 86:20 87:2,4 100:11,18,20 100:20 104:7 105:2 107:17 108:17,19 111:17 112:9 115:5 116:17 117:2 128:5 131:1 132:13 134:9,13 136:9 138:19 139:1 142:19 144:3 160:19 161:11 161:13 164:12 167:7,9 168:3 171:6,10 176:7 183:19 189:11 189:16,17 192:10,19,21 198:10 199:8 201:15 202:4 202:19 204:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 204:10,12 205:1,2,8 206:1,10,20 207:16 209:15 213:17 gold 62:13 129:18 130:19 197:5,10 good 7:4,9,10 12:6 13:11 33:11 50:7,8 58:10 65:16 69:16 75:13 88:10 92:6 104:13 111:3 114:2 129:17 160:15 164:13 165:14 195:2 201:3 204:17 google 39:5 121:2 government 3:14 13:1 20:4 92:19 148:12 174:3 grab 88:7 grabbed 113:9 grabs 45:11 grace 19:9 210:20 gracias 83:10 granddaughter 14:3 grandmother 150:1,10 grandson 14:4 granted 36:11 149:3 CCAC Meeting [gratitude - hero] gratitude 96:6 96:7 gravitas 130:18 great 14:3,4,4,8 14:8,8 17:17 38:1,10 40:6 40:17 43:2,4,5 43:6 75:16 84:3 92:20 93:3 143:13 150:1,10,10,12 175:9,9,9,20 176:11 greet 195:1 greg 3:16 5:9 5:16 6:3,10,17 12:18 31:7 67:5,16 71:2 90:2,20 101:18 119:2 123:8 125:5,18 169:1 169:21 212:8 214:2 215:2 grew 195:6 group 4:16 11:1 60:11 167:14 grouping 163:15 grow 31:6 growing 172:16 195:12 grown 176:2 guess 34:21 126:18 133:20 guidance 28:17 118:20 208:17 March 1, 2023 Page 21 guide 56:4 guideline 60:8 gum 49:16 guys 109:16 129:6 gwendolyn 4:6 13:21 h h 2:8 hair 157:17 162:5,8 167:1 167:2,3 half 108:3 177:3 hall 4:14 10:19 hanchock 3:9 12:3,4 24:17 25:1,2 hand 7:7 32:3 63:16 69:8 77:11 82:18 96:10 116:6 118:2 127:19 128:13 179:17 191:8 193:19 198:18 207:1 212:11 219:14 hands 22:3 handwriting 46:14 181:13 handwritten 23:8 hanging 187:11 213:5,6 happen 9:14 59:11 205:8 happened 144:1 happy 76:4,10 82:21 96:17 104:14 105:15 110:13 126:9 133:11 136:10 137:20 138:9 140:21 141:1 143:4 150:14 156:8,16 157:3 158:1 193:5 harcourt 2:6 8:10 34:10 37:15 58:20 83:5 101:13,14 106:2,3 125:2 125:3 133:7 137:14,16 156:20 182:10 182:11,13 193:14,16 208:9,11 hard 41:2 51:20 60:2 86:20 99:14 hawaii 94:3,10 94:10 hbcus 16:5 head 31:14 32:5 33:1 85:10 184:21 185:18 189:13 headed 32:14 health 148:20 hear 56:2,8,9 58:7 59:4,8 65:16 85:8,9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 111:17 124:13 124:14,20 195:2 heard 38:2 58:14 59:15 85:9 116:21 131:14 153:14 163:7 166:18 190:10 200:16 hearing 14:16 48:1 66:10,17 72:9 80:15 91:11 96:14 103:12 115:19 122:19 132:2 142:9 144:21 188:16 215:20 219:7 heart 47:18 216:21 hearts 72:19 height 80:4,5 154:21 155:1 held 1:7 173:16 hello 106:9 help 106:16 209:9 helped 15:17 74:3 148:3 helpful 135:6 196:15 helping 92:10 helps 63:1 136:7 heritage 74:5 148:4 hero 195:15 CCAC Meeting [heroism - image] heroism 202:11 hi 75:12 149:20 150:8 hidden 27:11 high 68:2,9 90:16 95:15 169:12,18 214:10 215:1 higher 79:21 highest 41:1 75:18 125:15 highlighting 20:18 highlights 87:5 hill 175:14,14 175:14,18,19 176:7 hint 118:6 hinted 117:8 historian 14:9 174:14 175:2 historians 177:15 historical 200:10 historically 188:9 history 2:10 8:17 20:8 27:13 51:20 177:13,15 202:11 hmm 34:6 123:21 hold 37:8 57:15 57:15 holder 118:7 March 1, 2023 Page 22 holding 57:12 57:18 58:4 77:11 151:21 162:18 180:4 holly 4:7 14:3 149:21 150:9 170:14 home 147:7 175:11 honestly 207:20 honor 9:14 26:2 33:4,7 75:16 83:12 96:8 108:4 120:17 150:12 174:1,11 176:4 177:7 178:16 178:17 179:3 179:16 180:5,6 180:14 181:1,5 181:15,20,21 183:8,14 184:13,16,17 185:5 186:8 187:5,8,17,21 190:1 192:8,14 192:19 193:8 194:9,13 195:19,19 196:8,14 197:17 199:5,8 201:3 202:5,8 202:21 205:10 205:20 207:18 209:2 211:7 212:19 honored 38:3 75:5 76:3 83:18 118:3 150:3 175:5 183:11 215:8 honoree 163:10 honorees 33:8 honoring 10:9 14:19 15:4 54:14 66:19 73:11 75:17 93:6,13 146:18 171:17 honors 161:1 185:7 hoosen 176:12 176:13,18 hoosen's 176:16 hope 19:1 21:13,15,18 22:18 26:11,16 39:2 40:21 41:12,16,21 45:15 50:1,3 60:12,19 64:20 65:20 hoped 135:7 175:19 hopeful 152:16 hopefully 53:2 hopes 19:3 horizon 65:19 horrible 190:3 190:7 191:15 horrid 190:12 host 20:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 house 2:7,11 8:11 94:11 120:3 213:3 hq 1:8 huge 31:2 52:3 human 16:5 18:7,8 19:2,4 19:11 humanitarian 93:2 humanity 50:14 humans 19:10 humble 39:9 humility 65:14 husband 148:18 i icon 74:2 iconography 112:15 icons 98:7 idea 32:13 111:10 144:2 identified 20:19 76:18 178:8 180:8 182:21 identify 205:16 identifying 150:20 identity 149:10 image 39:4 41:3 53:15 64:20 96:17 98:6,17 110:17 129:21 CCAC Meeting [imagery - intended] imagery 46:10 116:1 images 33:8 50:17 110:15 112:14 impact 19:4 149:13 211:15 implies 203:2 imply 118:12 importance 64:11 important 15:18 17:7 18:20 19:15 27:7 41:16 43:21 46:9 62:2 75:21 108:10 111:9 113:21 115:2 117:2 118:5 120:15 137:1 143:13 156:12 162:20 165:5 177:19,21 179:2 183:12 187:19 191:14 192:2,6,13 193:4 205:11 208:4 impossible 57:17 impressed 112:20 impression 41:5 improvement 190:2 March 1, 2023 Page 23 inanimate 160:18 inch 62:13 164:8 include 13:15 46:3 124:18 157:11 193:8 includes 10:6 78:4 152:3,6,9 153:6 179:19 180:15 181:1,6 181:12,15 including 96:13 148:19 172:11,18 178:18 inclusion 46:13 96:7 100:9 106:16 155:12 156:10 158:15 inclusive 60:17 income 94:19 incorrect 25:3 incuse 26:13 79:3,9 85:15 154:8,10 incused 35:19 35:19 36:3 40:20 181:16 indian 148:9 148:16 149:2 indians 148:18 149:4,7 160:8 indicate 11:6 108:11 109:21 indicated 219:15 indicates 36:20 199:13 indication 192:12 indigenous 147:15 individual 113:20 individually 88:7 individuals 33:4 inducing 35:6 ineloquently 25:10 infantry 173:12 infectious 77:18 influence 185:9 influential 16:16 inform 118:1 information 15:9 43:12 60:4 121:2 129:7 172:7 196:10,13 198:5 initial 135:12 initially 32:20 60:16 115:17 199:4 innovative 53:16 55:11 157:13 160:12 167:16 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 innovators 33:21 inscribed 77:4 203:1 inscription 21:19 22:17 46:13 77:12,19 78:4 98:11,18 116:3 152:4,7 178:21 179:4 179:17,20 180:1,6,19 181:12,17,20 183:9 184:14 192:7,14 193:9 inscriptions 121:11 152:10 152:17 153:4 155:12 156:10 180:16 181:14 201:20 inside 145:19 inspiration 95:19 inspired 110:11 154:5 inspiring 206:6 instance 52:3 instantly 49:21 113:9 institute 177:14 integral 16:21 102:12 intellectual 15:17 51:9,21 intended 86:4 CCAC Meeting [intent - kind] intent 35:15 79:17 130:8,21 154:17 185:8 interest 71:6 129:19,20 interested 36:20 51:13,14 59:14 198:4 202:9 219:12 interesting 81:20 111:15 161:9 195:15 195:20 interests 152:1 intergovernm... 2:21 3:15 12:15 13:2 interior 98:1 interject 25:3 internally 36:6 109:6 international 74:1 interpret 35:8 interpretation 151:16 interpreted 102:3 interrupting 204:5 intersection 63:7 intrigued 120:20 introduce 15:2 73:15 93:16 172:2 March 1, 2023 Page 24 invaluable 58:16 invitation 117:3 invite 24:20 82:19 involved 15:16 46:21 113:13 ipad 204:12 island 94:3 issued 110:18 205:4 issues 14:12,13 148:19 it'll 100:19 item 5:2 14:17 73:9 93:10 146:16 171:7 171:14 items 116:15 ix 95:1,5,12 97:20 98:10 107:6,8 111:13 115:1 120:16 121:4 124:19 128:21 j j 2:9 japanese 94:2 jennifer 2:20 9:17 10:3,14 10:17 12:13 63:15 67:8 69:7 212:10 218:8 jimmy 174:9 job 28:11 160:16 190:7 191:16 joe 12:7 26:9 27:19 29:18 30:18 34:11 36:14 40:19 61:13 66:11 78:21,21 79:5 79:10 89:12 99:18 100:15 101:7,18 109:4 115:14 119:1 129:6,10 131:15 145:10 154:9 168:12 184:1,3,7 186:11 189:12 208:18,19 210:12 211:19 joe's 110:3 john 2:11 56:12 86:15 107:16 115:6 127:19 128:2,3 133:12 141:18 144:17 165:21 189:7,9 207:16 john's 145:8 johnson 110:15 174:2 join 73:5 joined 13:13,17 13:18,21 14:7 joining 14:5 92:9 joseph 3:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 journey 48:21 60:12 joyful 82:16 joys 37:21 jr 42:15,16,21 judgment 58:7 184:4 jump 56:19 justice 15:19 17:7 18:8 22:4 22:5 23:3 175:21 juxtaposition 151:10 k karen 4:3 13:17 keep 37:5,13 80:18 103:16 120:10 155:19 188:19 199:9 keeping 71:1 194:16 kept 16:7 keys 78:10 keystone 211:11,13 kind 28:5 29:13 34:2 56:19 57:2 107:18 108:20 120:4 135:21 139:11,13 145:12 158:7,8 158:13 166:17 179:8 185:1 189:14 198:6 CCAC Meeting [kind - legislative] 205:12 king 42:15,16 42:20 knew 18:15,19 93:3 176:1,1 know 28:16,20 29:11,14,18 30:21 33:12,13 34:12,16 36:12 37:20 53:1,5,7 53:21 54:2,3,8 54:9,10,11,12 54:14 55:21 58:1,6 60:4 61:6 65:16 80:21 82:19 83:19 85:18,21 86:1,4 92:21 99:21 100:16 100:21 101:9 102:20 104:21 109:9,11 112:9 118:4,13,14 127:7 128:18 135:10 136:7,9 139:10,20 146:8 160:5 161:1,9,9 162:5 166:20 167:4 184:1 191:7,17 194:11 195:11 205:9,14 206:8 206:9 207:8 208:12,20 209:2,16 knowing 93:4 March 1, 2023 Page 25 known 72:21 97:20 147:6 148:8 187:14 knows 194:11 kotlowski 2:9 8:16,18 39:21 40:1,2 58:18 58:20 65:10,11 87:13,14 110:7 110:8 122:3,4 127:18 128:11 128:12 133:6 139:7,8 140:6 159:2,3 203:16 203:19 204:3,4 204:8 205:7,18 l label 43:4 lack 166:9 198:2 lady 92:20 165:8 lake 175:18 landmark 16:9 95:1 97:19 language 107:7 120:16 124:19 large 178:15 213:13 larger 32:21 42:8 112:6 198:8 largest 204:20 late 75:17 latin 85:3,17 148:2 latino 74:4 latinos 75:2 laughter 25:15 39:7 61:4 84:14 88:20 91:18 104:9 124:1 134:11 135:9 138:5 139:2 143:3,7 146:9,12 158:16 185:3 213:8 law 16:5 32:4 57:8 116:6 lawrence 2:3 9:12 63:11 70:7 89:4 104:7 109:1 115:11 169:1 182:4 186:21 203:13 laws 16:2 lawyer 15:15 34:3 laypeople 59:21 lead 106:16 leader 2:11,13 8:20 leading 128:20 128:21 lean 114:3 117:19 158:6 leaning 48:5 199:4 203:15 206:21 leap 31:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 learn 196:9 learned 147:21 195:13 learning 38:1 leave 96:16 97:1 141:21 145:20 leaves 57:2 110:3 led 149:1 200:21 left 17:16 77:10 78:11 82:18 147:7 180:5 184:17 legacy 20:2 75:21 76:12 95:19 legal 3:17 12:19 78:17 80:11 99:4 102:17 103:8 153:11 155:6 182:6 188:12 legend 108:8 legends 108:20 legion 197:10 197:12 legislating 119:14 legislation 31:13 32:18,18 33:3 34:4 97:20 98:10 118:8 legislative 2:20 3:15 12:14 13:2 CCAC Meeting [legislature - lyndon] legislature 94:10 length 62:18 130:4 179:13 181:4,10 200:19 lent 200:8 lessen 211:15 letter 154:21 155:1 lettering 63:7 114:7 121:8 124:16 198:18 199:5,10 letters 26:11 60:21 letting 170:21 level 26:16,17 levels 95:15 lexington 48:20 liaison 2:20 4:3 4:5,6 10:15 12:15 21:8 22:13 24:19 27:15 54:1 75:6 76:19 97:8 98:14,20 138:8 174:12 liaison's 20:21 28:1 liaisons 4:2,9 4:11 13:14 20:11 151:4 152:13 159:10 216:8 liberally 36:5 libraries 16:5 March 1, 2023 Page 26 life 17:6 18:9 19:7,16 26:5 46:12 60:17 94:4 147:11 148:14 160:9 173:3 174:7 176:2,20 192:1 196:4 life's 22:5 lifelong 18:19 48:18 95:17 179:21 light 137:18 171:3 liked 57:20 58:3 81:18 111:4 159:8,16 160:3,11 165:13 167:8 176:14 213:10 likely 130:2 137:1 154:14 177:2 likeness 62:17 88:10 155:11 186:6 likewise 172:19 liking 96:18 limbs 190:8 limits 149:5 line 9:20 21:17 65:20 100:11 119:2 153:18 lines 56:19 78:10,13 listed 16:17 listened 49:5 85:3 listening 7:19 52:15 139:9 literally 146:5 literals 130:12 literary 152:1 little 24:14 28:4 40:15 41:2,9 47:16 61:18 85:13 87:9,9 99:14 100:12 101:9 103:20 105:7 107:3,4,21 114:3 122:10 126:13 128:17 136:11 156:1 160:5 167:11 live 88:4 177:1 lived 18:3 175:13 living 175:11 llc 4:14,16 10:20 11:1 local 195:15 logical 145:13 long 149:13 look 28:3 33:16 38:18 39:5 44:6 49:14 50:9 60:5 65:19 85:7,10 87:2 96:14 99:11 102:18 120:21 129:17 154:16 165:14 192:19 196:20 197:9,11,21 198:5 202:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 207:7 208:15 212:16 looked 102:18 106:17 158:9 199:15 203:6 looking 57:8 76:15 151:2 162:17 163:10 looks 46:5 50:7 107:5 120:5 200:20 lose 194:4 lost 199:1 lot 43:15 49:13 50:21 83:2 85:3,4,4 108:9 111:7 113:7 130:14,15,16 130:17 159:14 160:4,10 161:12 187:8 200:13 love 19:18 43:2 59:19 82:8,14 83:13 84:1 85:5,11 116:3 124:14 136:3,4 145:16 157:16 163:1 167:16 170:3 194:8 lovely 46:3 104:21 158:18 199:3,18 low 94:19 luther 42:15,16 42:20 lyndon 110:15 CCAC Meeting [m - medal] m m 7:1 ma'am 97:17 117:5 machine 49:16 made 49:6 76:1 83:19 99:14 108:11,12 122:7 140:18 160:14 163:11 179:6 183:3 189:15 217:17 217:18 219:8 magazine 212:21 magnificent 87:4 main 33:14,18 33:19 mainstream 49:3 maintain 64:12 140:9 171:5 major 111:12 majority 2:13 8:20 make 28:14 29:11,11,14 34:5 36:16 39:1 46:18 54:15 64:3,9 65:1,18 70:18 70:18,21 71:15 71:19 72:20 83:19 107:1 108:16 116:19 117:2 120:11 March 1, 2023 Page 27 121:10,17 122:19 125:18 126:3,3 127:21 132:12 137:11 139:1 140:18 141:19 143:21 154:16 162:3 165:17 171:10 183:20 184:8 184:17 187:12 187:14 201:9 203:20 206:12 210:14 215:8 makes 39:4 55:19 61:1 66:4 83:12,14 116:7,10 131:9 161:15 making 68:2 102:2 118:9 121:21 138:18 140:17 145:13 169:12 175:7 184:4 206:18 214:9 male 62:7 74:11 109:12 123:20,21 145:4,16 146:10 187:9 205:5 208:13 man 110:20 management 3:2 11:9 15:1 73:14 146:21 172:1 manager 3:5,7 3:8,10,13 11:15,18,21 12:5,10 24:17 75:14 154:2 188:6 march 1:4 7:13 maria 160:6 marine 25:6 mark 4:8 14:4 150:9 170:15 marked 176:10 marks 109:20 marshall 16:6 martin 42:15 42:16,20 mary 4:11 6:12 10:12 14:6 171:13,17,18 171:20 172:8 175:6,13 176:1 176:5,8,11,13 176:14 179:14 180:2 181:12 184:15 191:5 195:12 205:19 207:16 213:5 mary's 176:20 maryland 18:4 materials 154:4 matronly 192:2 matter 219:13 matters 80:12 103:9 155:6 maui 94:3 maximum 70:13 md 2:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 mean 29:12 52:3 53:15 57:16,21 58:11 81:14 100:21 108:16 109:21 112:5 117:8 125:8,13 146:10 166:12 167:2 184:10 190:5,6,8,12 209:15 meaning 35:9 147:6 meaningless 189:18 means 29:8 35:9,17 39:3 meant 23:20 84:16 102:6,14 medal 62:13 129:18 130:19 164:8 165:15 174:1,2,6,8,11 178:16,17 179:3,16 180:5 180:6,13,21 181:5,15,19,20 183:8,13 184:12,16,17 186:7 187:5,8 187:9,11,17,20 188:8 190:1,4 192:5,8,10,12 192:14,19 193:2,8 194:9 194:13 195:19 195:19 196:3,7 196:14 197:17 CCAC Meeting [medal - mink] 199:5,8 201:3 201:13 202:1,1 202:5,8,21 203:4 204:18 204:19 205:9 205:20 207:17 207:18 209:13 209:17 211:7 212:19 213:1,6 medallic 2:14 9:2 meddling 108:18 media 4:16 10:20 11:1 medical 173:20 meet 218:6 meeting 1:1 7:12,16 75:16 170:16 187:8 216:20 217:6,9 218:9,10 meetings 47:21 meets 185:8 megan 3:3 11:11 member 63:12 94:17 111:9,10 139:14 members 2:2 4:13 7:20 8:3 10:15 23:13,17 37:4,7 58:15 59:5,6 63:20 66:7 80:10,18 80:20 89:10 123:19 125:15 136:19 139:12 March 1, 2023 Page 28 153:12 155:5 155:18 163:13 168:9 171:4 182:5 188:1,13 208:7 216:21 membership 127:14 memories 42:14 men's 172:20 menna 3:11 12:7,8 26:14 28:9 29:6,8,17 29:19 30:18 33:10 34:14,20 35:4,19,21 36:9,15,18 61:13,13 62:9 66:14 79:1,5,5 79:10,10 89:15 99:18,18 100:15,15 101:7 109:4,4 109:14 119:1,1 129:10,10,13 131:15 145:7 145:10,11,18 146:8 154:9,9 168:15 184:3,3 185:4,15 208:16,18,18 208:21 210:14 210:17 mention 115:1 157:12 165:17 166:2 195:5 210:3 mentioned 85:15 189:13 196:5 219:5 merging 183:6 merit 166:3,4,9 166:11,15 167:13 merited 49:19 mess 50:13 message 41:15 42:4,8 43:18 44:6,8,9 50:19 53:19 54:7 66:3 111:3 168:5 207:6,21 208:3 messaging 55:13,18 110:21 messing 167:10 met 195:2 metals 57:14 metropolitan 212:21 mic 9:19 michael 3:12 12:10 microphone 9:20 48:11 77:11 microphones 7:20 microscopic 197:16 mid 78:7 191:17 middle 137:19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 midst 78:2 176:3 mike 2:12 3:18 4:15 8:19 10:21 13:5 27:20 29:11 48:9,14 63:15 64:6,14,16 66:11 67:2 69:7 70:9 88:21 89:1,12 91:14 104:5 115:14 122:21 127:10 129:6 132:7 134:7 164:1,3,5 168:11 201:6 202:15 212:4 mike's 28:13 miles 175:13 195:7 military 173:7 202:1 millimeters 62:18 197:7,8 mind 46:18 71:2 106:17 117:15 124:9 146:11 178:6 194:16 mindedness 65:13 minimize 64:11 mink 4:6,6 5:19 13:20 14:1 93:9,13 94:1,8 95:4,16 96:1,2,4 97:15 CCAC Meeting [mink - museum] 97:19 98:6,9 98:16 104:19 106:9 108:4 111:1 113:12 116:20 117:3,7 120:14 127:1 128:21 129:15 131:7,8 134:19 135:2,7,10 137:20 139:9 142:19,20 143:5,15 158:9 159:5 mink's 129:15 minorities 18:9 minority 2:11 mint 2:19 11:4 14:12 20:3 27:1 33:6,13 87:6 92:18 108:11 131:4 145:21 186:13 197:4 217:4 mint's 15:1 20:10 33:12 73:14 86:10 93:15 172:1 minted 35:3 mints 33:12 108:12 minus 60:6 minute 123:3 213:18 minutes 37:6 37:14 52:15 54:16 67:6 80:19 89:18 103:17 155:20 March 1, 2023 Page 29 158:9 168:18 188:19 missed 13:8 missionaries 147:10 missionary 151:11 mistake 201:17 mistaken 127:7 mm 34:6 models 143:6 moment 53:2 82:20 92:8 114:19 moments 96:15 monday 176:9 months 173:17 moon 181:7 moran 2:12 8:19,21 48:9 48:10,14 63:15 64:15,16 65:5 65:8 69:7,9 70:5,17 88:21 89:1,1 91:17 91:20 104:5,7 104:10 127:10 127:11 134:8 164:1,4,5 201:6,7 morning 7:4,9 7:10 75:13 mother 96:7 106:11 131:9 147:21 motif 158:11 motion 6:19 68:16,20 70:18 70:21 71:7,9 71:12,15 72:10 72:12 78:2 91:9 92:3,5 125:12,21 126:3 130:15 131:19,20 132:3,16 134:13,14,15 138:13,16,18 139:1,14 140:18 141:17 141:20 142:3,7 142:10,17,18 144:6,19 146:1 146:2 157:17 170:7 215:8,13 215:17,18 216:4,5 217:10 217:12,17 218:2 motions 5:10 5:17 6:4,11,18 23:13 65:1 68:10,12 72:14 89:10 90:21 91:2 123:18 131:12 168:9 170:1,2,9 208:7 215:3,5 move 20:16 21:5 36:6 76:15 78:3,10 91:4 97:4,12 125:5 131:16 144:11 150:19 151:6 191:9 205:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 moved 18:5 124:17 139:16 217:13 movement 42:13 movements 15:19 moves 206:3 moving 22:19 27:21 84:6 112:15 139:3 146:13 157:17 180:11 mph 2:3 muchas 83:10 multiple 108:12 118:10 178:18 murray 4:3 5:5 10:11 13:16 14:15,20 15:5 15:10,11,16 16:1,15,16 17:1,18,20 18:3,7,15 19:12,21 22:2 22:21 23:3 39:8 42:10 47:9 48:16 50:1 51:8 52:21 66:1,20 129:14 murray's 16:8 19:21 21:11,13 23:7 45:13 museum 27:13 177:15 CCAC Meeting [music - number] music 74:11 77:15 84:2 85:4,9,17,17 152:21 musical 74:15 78:12 musician 148:7 mute 7:19 9:19 75:11 164:3 muting 35:15 n n 5:1 6:1 7:1 naacp 16:8 name 8:5 11:7 23:7 37:12 75:13 78:12 81:5 82:11 85:14 86:1 104:2 126:21 149:20 150:8 152:5 156:4 189:5,10 199:15 202:7 named 175:6 175:18 176:7 naming 31:1 nation 60:12 nation's 86:7 national 84:8 110:16 148:17 177:14 native 147:10 147:17 148:1,4 151:11 159:21 160:7 165:12 167:2 March 1, 2023 Page 30 nature 57:9 79:11 117:16 117:16 158:2 nay 132:21 133:1 142:14 142:15 145:3 216:2 217:21 nays 142:16 near 173:17 175:16,18 nears 55:15 necessarily 79:21 113:14 167:4 necessary 147:16 170:6 215:7 neck 187:11 213:5 necklace 21:3 22:15 23:5 46:2 need 14:13 66:8 69:17 137:6,10 170:13 196:11 199:9 needs 55:17 79:13 116:13 124:15 158:19 negative 105:18 116:9 193:3 211:6 negligence 36:10 neighbor's 213:3,4 neither 118:1 219:8 nephew 14:8 175:9 never 18:16 28:3 38:12 39:14 63:4 88:3 146:11 nevertheless 179:10 new 14:10 95:12 112:17 172:9 174:15 175:17 195:6,7 news 4:16 10:21 nice 42:2 53:8 57:4 106:9 107:1 117:12 195:8 niece 17:17 nixon 111:14 nod 22:6 non 149:4 nonprofit 17:21 norms 172:12 notably 94:21 149:6 note 13:12 30:7 97:12 111:15 192:7 noted 76:17 77:20 149:15 177:19 183:13 201:12 notes 78:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 notice 137:4 217:8 noticed 99:9 noting 31:12 november 173:21 number 19:13 40:8 41:6 42:2 44:3,9,10 51:13,14 52:7 53:7,9,20 60:11 67:21 68:1,3 69:12 69:13 76:6,8 79:16,18 81:11 81:16 82:3,9 82:15 86:6,17 87:1,7,15 88:9 88:13,19 89:2 89:8 90:6,8,9 90:10,12,17 96:18,18 97:15 100:8 104:12 105:5,8,15,20 106:5,19,20 107:3,4,5,7,10 107:11,19,20 107:21 110:11 110:12 111:5 114:1,1,2,4 117:11,13 120:12 121:12 121:13 123:11 123:13,15,16 126:9,21 128:14 129:2 130:6 135:13 135:14 136:3,4 CCAC Meeting [number - oswego] 136:6,11 139:15,21 140:1,8 144:3 144:4 157:9 158:14 159:8 159:16,17 160:11 164:6 165:10 169:5,7 169:9,10,11,13 171:4 186:7 190:19 193:6 193:11 199:3 199:17 202:13 202:20 203:9 204:14 207:10 207:10 210:15 212:14 214:6,8 214:9,11,21 numismatic 9:9 numismatics 2:16,17 9:6 o o 41:8 49:10 object 160:19 obscure 209:13 209:17 obscured 45:14 59:20 observation 63:8 211:17 observations 186:16 observing 25:19 obsessed 20:2 25:13 March 1, 2023 Page 31 obverse 15:3 33:14 34:1 obviously 40:9 119:7 125:14 202:1 212:3 occasions 59:12 odm 28:14 offer 63:13,21 122:14 129:7 135:5 136:18 141:15 143:2 168:13 182:7 offers 56:10 office 3:2,15,18 11:8 13:1,5 15:1 16:8 73:14 92:18 93:15 118:19 120:2 135:19 146:20 172:1 officially 174:8 ogle 4:7 14:3 149:17,20 170:15 oh 71:20 97:10 110:9,9 139:18 145:10 161:8 205:6 212:9 ohio 173:12 okay 23:15 35:18 67:13 70:5 87:8 89:16,20 101:6 122:9 125:2 126:5 133:2,5 133:15 134:1 140:6,11 142:6 145:6 146:14 154:6 158:15 174:21 203:5 203:18 204:3 205:7 212:12 217:16 old 25:17 older 33:16 omer 4:4 13:19 75:6,13 once 67:18 68:7 83:12 90:5,16 123:10 169:4 173:19 178:18 214:5 214:21 one's 62:4 147:17 onerous 196:17 ones 113:9 online 121:1 ontario 175:18 ooh 123:17 ooo 4:18 6:21 open 65:13 100:3 110:4 opened 95:12 95:13 opening 7:8 112:3 opera 148:9,10 opine 38:4 opinion 31:3 34:3 39:9 61:19 133:14 143:2 211:12 opinions 65:15 127:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 opportunities 94:6 98:3,8 112:3 opportunity 20:5,10 44:15 52:20 81:1 93:4 95:4,14 98:12 107:8 115:15 116:20 120:18 121:3 187:7 195:9 opposed 132:6 142:13 145:3 147:14 162:8 167:1 179:4 216:2 217:21 opposition 72:7 option 53:10 73:7 76:6,7,7 options 115:13 order 5:3 7:3 7:11 27:4 30:9 47:6 124:4 132:12 147:17 149:8 156:12 216:18 organization 17:21 organizations 16:6 orientation 211:5 origin 84:8 original 30:14 origins 96:21 oswego 14:10 174:15 175:2,3 175:4 195:8 CCAC Meeting [outcome - permitted] outcome 219:13 outfit 200:17 outlawed 148:12 outlier 58:9 outspoken 148:15 outstanding 38:21 153:9 164:7 169:20 ovals 49:10 overall 199:12 overlaid 77:13 overtalking 33:11 overview 17:14 own 29:20 30:1 46:9 74:4 162:2 p p 49:11 176:6 p.m. 1:5 218:10 page 5:2 16:1 painting 120:2 161:5 paintings 161:5 pam 3:6 11:17 154:2 paperwork 18:21 121:5 parallel 66:3 129:3 pardillo 4:4 13:19 75:6,9 75:12,13 76:14 77:20 83:8,10 March 1, 2023 Page 32 85:5 86:9 92:9 92:17 parents 172:10 park 29:5 part 26:5 31:18 51:19 80:5 95:5 117:11,21 136:13 166:2 171:1 173:19 175:9 177:21 178:9 180:9 183:4 191:3 partially 27:11 participants 7:10 65:7 123:17 142:15 participate 170:18 participating 7:21 216:9 217:2 participation 95:7 particular 31:1 33:13 45:6 63:4 108:4 113:8 136:2 161:2 162:14 166:10 183:8 195:10 199:10 particularly 33:16 53:10,13 54:5,13 56:16 66:5 108:9 112:10 116:5 127:2 187:21 192:21 208:4 parties 219:9 passage 149:2 passed 18:6 135:8 passing 75:19 111:13 passions 153:1 past 49:17 139:17 patronizing 29:13 109:7 patsy 4:6 5:18 10:11 13:20 93:8,13 94:1 95:3,16 98:16 104:19 111:1 113:12 126:21 128:21 158:8 159:5 pattern 152:1 154:5 pauli 4:3 5:5 10:11 13:16 14:15,19 15:4 15:10,11 17:18 17:20 19:12,21 21:11 22:2,20 39:8 42:10 48:16 50:1 51:8 52:21 65:21 66:20 129:13 pause 91:16 116:17 164:2 182:8 pauses 116:14 paying 36:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 peace 94:21 pedantic 109:7 peeking 60:21 people 15:13 39:3,10,12 42:17 70:3,14 70:15 85:18 86:1 124:20 126:8 127:20 128:1 135:18 139:18 141:6 161:12 166:18 175:3 176:1,21 187:20 192:9 196:9,10,11,12 199:7 205:9 210:9 people's 70:2 130:3 percent 28:20 perfect 90:17 perfection 55:8 55:15 perfectly 53:8 105:9 110:13 perform 81:13 88:3 performance 78:7 performed 74:12 performer 74:6 performing 77:2 period 112:11 permitted 173:6 CCAC Meeting [persevere - portrait] persevere 94:8 person 43:3 45:6 69:11 70:1 95:5 111:8 118:1 161:2 162:18 165:6 201:14 202:3 217:1 persona 92:20 93:1 117:12 personal 19:8 85:2 147:20 personally 18:12 20:10 194:2 personnel 87:6 perspective 61:20 119:13 129:8 persuaded 111:19 116:9 peter 2:17 9:8 24:7 26:7 32:6 52:11 68:21 69:2 78:20 82:5,10,12 85:15 91:6 100:6 105:12 105:14 126:6 128:6 134:1,17 142:4 153:15 153:16 156:5,7 190:21 193:17 197:21 206:7 217:17 ph.d. 2:6,9,17 phenomenal 73:1 March 1, 2023 Page 33 philosophy 99:16 phoenix 195:7 photographic 188:7 phrase 162:11 phrases 99:15 physical 135:17 160:18 physician 199:14 207:10 piano 78:10 pick 38:17 39:17 61:2 picking 120:20 picture 57:1 61:5,8 213:2 pictures 25:20 212:20 piece 55:14 195:20 197:11 pin 23:5 25:20 pittsburgh 18:5 place 20:7 175:20 219:4 placing 191:8 plaintiff 16:13 planchet 196:21 197:5 planets 112:13 planted 119:16 play 105:3 played 111:12 plays 151:17 160:20 pleasant 218:4 please 8:4 11:5 25:2 37:5,8 41:8 47:6 67:4 67:7 80:18,20 103:18 124:9 129:12 132:7,7 140:14 143:18 144:7 155:19 178:5 188:21 193:18 194:7 210:16 212:7 pleasure 61:14 pluribus 66:2 184:15 plus 19:20 59:21 pocket 86:8 poem 21:17,18 poet 15:15 point 20:19 21:4 23:14 25:12 35:7 43:11 109:17 122:7 124:3 125:17 134:19 140:3 145:8 146:3 154:13 160:1 196:19 200:5,11 208:6 211:20 212:1 217:11 pointed 196:15 197:21 points 67:20 68:8 69:17 125:1 126:8 128:8 169:8 205:1 206:14 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 policies 35:5 policy 118:8 polished 35:10 35:17 36:1 poll 127:14 poor 18:10 pop 79:18 pops 194:15 portfolio 21:5 27:6 86:12 97:13 151:7 164:21 178:2 179:11 186:17 portfolios 79:16 portrait 26:17 31:16 34:1 41:1,4,19 45:13 46:3,5,7 49:11,12 50:7 50:8 51:17 52:5 53:14 62:3 63:2,6 77:1,13,16 82:16 85:12 98:16 101:5 110:16,16 112:6 113:20 113:21 120:1 130:20 156:15 159:18 160:16 160:17 161:1 178:11 179:9 180:4 183:2,6 189:15 198:8 199:3 210:18 210:20 211:8 211:10,15 CCAC Meeting [portraits - process] portraits 21:11 31:14 32:5 33:2 107:12 191:19 204:20 portray 33:8 50:17 52:20 156:12 181:3 portrayal 101:21 105:17 portrayed 45:8 82:20 102:11 162:7 187:10 187:18 portrays 88:9 98:15 152:15 pose 81:2 99:5 135:17 191:4 191:10 position 135:18 136:9 140:10 211:4 positioning 209:6 positive 116:7 possible 21:15 37:13 53:7 67:19 68:7 81:17 90:6 100:13 123:11 169:5 214:6 possibly 101:18 137:2 154:18 154:19 postal 205:19 posterity 148:5 posthumously 95:3 March 1, 2023 Page 34 power 53:13 powerful 44:8 46:4 53:6,15 53:20 65:19 66:4,5 74:7 78:9 198:18 powerfully 54:8 powerhouse 81:12 practical 172:21 practice 173:8 predominantly 24:18 preface 102:1 prefer 40:15 46:1 47:14 124:15 126:16 163:13 207:2 preference 22:13 28:1 42:3 76:18 77:7,21 97:7 97:11,16 98:13 98:20 107:11 127:6,6 140:17 151:3 152:13 155:10 162:13 166:7 167:8 177:18 178:8 180:9 182:16 182:21 186:5 190:18 200:15 preferences 20:18 31:11 54:1 76:16 97:5 150:21 166:19 200:14 preferred 21:1 156:9 178:11 prefers 157:12 premature 55:21 premiering 148:9 prepared 96:5 prepares 23:1 prerogative 108:18 124:8 presence 74:8 119:18 present 8:4,9 8:12,15,18,21 9:4,7,11 11:6 11:10,13,16,19 12:4,8,12,17 12:20 13:4,7 15:2 67:17 73:15 90:3 93:16 114:11 123:9 129:16 169:2 172:2 178:2 presented 186:17 presents 28:10 preserve 148:4 149:9 president 33:19 120:3 174:1,9 presidential 46:5 130:19 press 4:13 10:16 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 pressure 139:21 pretty 17:13 190:7,9,12 203:10 previous 178:17 194:16 previously 199:14 priest 15:16 17:3 primary 31:18 76:6,18 77:6 principal 96:20 prior 138:18 priority 108:18 prison 173:17 prisoner 173:16,19 190:11 privilege 9:14 43:9 51:10 probably 42:18 125:16 128:7 137:9 166:3,13 209:12 problem 36:19 164:9 201:11 proceed 34:8 proceeding 219:10 proceedings 10:13 219:3 process 20:12 35:13 96:14 147:1 150:13 171:1 175:10 189:2 213:17 CCAC Meeting [process - 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right] 156:3 189:4 reporting 141:3 represent 30:17 52:21 138:15 representation 24:2 53:2 106:15 119:11 135:16 161:2 161:13 186:9 188:9 205:15 206:3 representations 161:6 203:4 representative 2:4,5,8 95:21 178:4 representatives 94:12 149:16 represented 19:15 24:15 27:6 117:13 154:8,14 representing 8:6,14 9:13 23:6 98:1,7 152:21 179:20 represents 70:2 77:14 151:21 194:12 request 21:3 22:15 74:19 101:4 139:4 173:8 requested 21:8 109:19 March 1, 2023 Page 38 require 149:6 required 122:10 requires 68:15 rescinded 174:2 reservation 147:8 reserving 58:6 resides 180:7 resonate 44:13 respect 39:15 44:19 53:21 72:14 207:12 respected 186:5 respond 8:4 208:17 response 13:10 14:14 66:9 72:8,15 80:13 89:11 91:10 103:10 132:1 142:8 144:20 168:10 170:5 170:11 188:14 215:19 216:3 218:1 rest 26:13 53:4 54:14 199:15 restaurant 74:21 restored 174:8 restrictive 172:19 results 5:9,15 6:3,9,16 67:14 67:17 90:3,4 123:6,9 168:20 169:3 213:20 214:3 resume 10:13 return 174:6 returned 173:20 revealed 199:16 revealing 184:19 reverence 177:5 reverend 15:10 15:11 17:18 18:3,7,15 19:21 21:11 22:1,20 42:10 42:15,20 45:13 47:9 48:16 65:21 66:20 reverently 22:3 reverse 10:8 14:18 15:3 20:21 21:10,20 22:10,12 23:7 23:20 26:10 33:15 47:6 66:18 73:10,16 77:9,16 78:1 79:2 93:11,17 97:18,19 98:15 99:11 126:12 144:14 146:17 151:15 156:17 171:15 172:3 192:8,15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 reverses 22:1 22:19 33:20 78:6 98:5 151:19 192:11 review 10:7 14:17 36:7 73:10 93:11 146:17 171:15 reviewers 178:1 reviewing 135:11 revised 136:2 revisions 135:13 revisited 185:6 revote 70:10 125:11,12,21 125:21 126:1 139:13 rhythm 77:15 122:1 171:11 ribbon 187:10 richard 111:14 richmond 173:18 rico 85:2 ride 176:15 ridicule 177:4 right 20:16 21:9 26:11,18 32:15 34:18,19 35:17 38:15,15 38:18,18 42:5 50:3 58:2 76:21 77:5,11 80:7 84:4,6 85:19 92:2 CCAC Meeting [right - score] 97:14 101:12 103:5 104:11 120:2 137:19 138:3 143:6 146:13 148:21 155:2 162:2 163:10 174:19 179:16 181:6 193:20 208:12 213:6 rights 15:13,14 15:20,21 16:6 16:21 18:8,18 19:2,5,11 22:6 42:13 148:16 149:10 172:14 ring 97:21 101:8,10 risk 30:19 33:10 road 175:14,19 robin 2:14 9:1 45:2,3 47:8 67:7 69:4 87:21 88:2 113:4,5 114:19 123:1 132:7 134:5 161:19 161:20 163:7 198:14,15 212:5 215:14 215:17 robust 59:13 roger 3:5 11:14 role 47:11 111:13 141:5 143:5 183:10 200:9 March 1, 2023 Page 39 roles 170:17 roll 5:4 8:1 132:10,13 room 61:16 roosevelt 22:8 rooted 21:15 ross 4:3 13:17 17:9,13 24:20 25:2,11,13,17 37:20 40:4 56:2,9 58:14 59:4,9,11,17 61:5,14 65:12 72:20 ross's 38:5 54:1 rough 190:9 round 112:15 112:16 rules 122:9 rumba 77:3 run 147:9 runs 201:12 russ 12:1 russell 3:8 11:20 ruth 16:11 52:2 s s 2:3 sa 4:9 6:6 10:12 14:2 146:15,19 147:6,12 148:6 148:14 149:21 150:10 151:20 152:15,20 153:3 161:6 sa's 151:10,16 152:5 sacred 148:11 safe 218:5 sainted 17:3 salmon 2:14 9:1,4 45:2,3,4 69:4,4 88:1,2 113:5,6 134:6 161:20,21 198:14,15,16 215:14,14,17 salsa 74:11,12 77:13 78:3,5 84:2 85:4,17 sam 8:13 51:4 81:8,10 104:16 104:18 133:9 133:13 164:17 164:19 202:16 202:18 samuel 2:8 sanitary 173:1 sarcastically 101:1 satisfied 203:8 212:15 satisfies 196:1 saunders 2:11 56:8,11,12 71:13,14 86:15 86:16 107:16 107:17 109:20 128:3,3 133:13 133:20 140:11 140:12,15 141:19 144:16 144:17 165:21 166:1 189:8,9 189:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 saved 18:21 saw 24:15 39:10 47:19 88:3 212:17 saying 31:3 64:10 85:19 96:16 130:6 132:4 137:7 141:9 142:11 142:14 167:10 182:16 184:11 185:11,12 207:17 211:14 211:16 says 114:8 scale 57:13,13 57:15,19 62:1 62:15,21 63:9 100:10 126:17 130:1 178:15 197:14 scales 22:4,9 23:3 46:11 62:10,10,20 scattered 47:10 schedule 171:5 scholarships 18:1 school 95:15 118:13 147:9 195:14 score 66:18,21 67:19 71:6 89:17 90:6,10 90:12,15,18 123:11 125:15 168:18 169:5 212:2 214:6 CCAC Meeting [scored - session] scored 214:7,8 214:9 scoresheet 212:4 scoresheets 122:21 scoring 5:9,15 6:3,9,16 67:14 67:17 68:2,9 71:3,3 90:3,4 90:16 123:6,9 168:17,20 169:3 213:17 213:18,20 214:4,10 screen 29:14 63:17 script 23:8 sculpt 29:4,6,9 sculpted 62:16 78:8 154:15 sculptor 62:16 sculpture 2:14 9:3 sea 38:17 seahorse 23:5 24:10 62:19 seahorses 25:6 25:14,20 seated 98:16 seats 94:9 second 7:6,15 68:19 69:1,3,5 71:10 73:9 76:8 91:7 131:18 142:2,5 144:15,17 166:2 171:8 March 1, 2023 Page 40 189:19 190:19 193:17 215:12 215:15 217:15 217:18 secondarily 160:2 secondary 77:21 97:11,16 98:13 seconded 215:17 seconding 128:8 seconds 116:18 secretary 68:18 131:17 137:7 144:3,12 215:10 see 21:4 28:5 29:3,13 30:6 30:21 35:10 39:2 40:9 41:2 41:9 42:12 48:4 49:21 50:13,14 54:2 54:16 55:12 56:3,17 60:20 63:16 65:20,21 66:1 79:15 83:14 85:16 86:7 87:6 88:4 100:13,21 101:8,9,19 102:3 106:10 106:13 116:11 117:12 119:7 120:1 121:5 128:21 130:3,4 131:19 150:14 154:13 157:20 158:3,4 161:4 161:13 167:2 183:1 184:5 185:13 187:20 187:20 196:6 196:16 197:16 201:19 205:9,9 205:10 207:3 209:14 seeing 31:5 38:16 47:8 66:10 72:16 81:13 168:11 170:12 183:18 188:17 197:20 seem 136:21 seemed 27:11 seemingly 74:19 seems 82:18 119:15 139:20 154:17 162:15 191:6 192:1 seen 18:13 22:12,16,16 28:4 30:10 38:12 39:14 40:7,18,18 41:3 44:4 51:18 166:5,8 177:12 178:18 198:21 202:2 segregation 16:4 selected 19:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 selection 193:6 self 118:14 semantic 145:14,14 senate 2:13 8:20 94:11 send 67:2,8 123:2 187:13 senior 3:4,5,14 3:17 10:19 11:12,14 12:18 12:21 48:19 sense 34:5 42:21 112:1,2 131:9 134:12 157:17 163:9 sentiment 21:16 129:3 sentiments 54:19 55:6 separate 108:21 144:6 separating 99:10 sequence 135:11 series 96:8 servant 95:17 serve 94:13 173:5,7 served 94:14 174:4 service 173:20 205:19 serving 9:15 37:21 200:11 session 10:5 11:5 216:19 CCAC Meeting [set - soon] set 30:15 50:11 86:2 161:5 settled 175:17 seven 94:16 several 27:8 52:15 sex 95:7 sexist 190:6 sexually 26:1 shape 21:12 62:4 151:13 153:19 181:6 shaped 94:5 153:18 share 27:8 63:2 66:12 81:1 132:8 176:19 177:12,18 178:7,13 179:10 185:20 187:6 shared 48:3 59:15 208:2 sharing 54:20 92:15 sheet 219:5 sheets 67:1 sheriff's 201:15 shifting 69:13 shine 165:3 short 162:3 201:9 shoulders 31:14 32:5 33:1 shouting 85:8 show 20:20 33:18,20 188:7 March 1, 2023 Page 41 202:11 205:3 207:13 215:16 217:17 showed 19:17 110:18 200:9 showing 32:2 194:3 200:19 shown 34:15 35:2 197:12,13 shows 57:7,7 57:21 165:11 165:12,12 203:5,6 side 47:21 184:18 sides 137:5 siding 52:7 sign 107:6 signature 23:20 24:1,4,5 74:16 77:3 219:15,19 signatures 201:20 signed 10:16 111:14 significance 89:7 108:13 153:20 156:13 199:13 significant 21:14 194:10 199:11,19 signifiers 96:21 signify 132:3 142:11,14 similar 42:20 158:5,8,10 similarly 22:9 27:15 simmons 147:7 simple 47:16 69:14 74:19 105:16 107:21 126:11 simplicity 117:14 126:19 136:13 simply 30:13 70:15 126:16 139:12 192:9 201:21 204:16 singer 88:6 92:21 93:1 singing 77:10 77:18 single 211:2 sioux 147:8 sir 34:14 66:15 67:10 75:11 82:3 89:14 105:10 122:16 165:19 168:14 174:20 209:18 sit 52:18 sitting 22:21 46:8 52:14 six 94:14 size 100:10 105:7 126:11 192:18 194:4 196:20 197:1,5 198:7 199:1 201:17 213:13 sketch 50:15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 skills 74:15 skipped 204:10 sleep 201:8 sleeve 80:1 slightly 27:10 36:4 206:2 slogan 19:18 small 107:9 110:1 189:16 197:14,15 smaller 197:7 smile 22:3 77:2 77:19 smiling 112:5 136:5 smithsonian 27:12 177:13 social 10:20 15:19 17:7 175:21,21 societal 21:14 society 18:11 47:12 solar 112:14 soldiers 173:14 174:4 200:8 solve 185:6,10 somebody 42:18 126:2 somewhat 45:14 160:14 187:1 son 25:18 song 19:6 21:18 22:18 41:13 soon 46:18 CCAC Meeting [sophisticated - statesperson] sophisticated 41:18 sorry 36:18 48:12 63:14 69:6 75:12,12 82:10 84:15 182:11 185:18 193:18 203:19 204:3 208:19 212:10 sort 112:13 117:8 118:4,10 135:7 153:20 160:1 207:18 soul 106:12 sound 109:6 sounds 92:3 source 154:4 south 147:8 195:8 space 105:18 112:11,12 184:16 193:3 211:6 spaces 116:9 spanish 74:17 speak 10:1 24:19 125:16 145:9 175:2 201:10 speaker 2:7 8:11 12:1 62:7 62:8 109:12 123:20,21 145:4,16 146:10 205:5,6 208:13 speaking 25:10 37:12 47:4 81:6 104:3 119:10 120:4 128:12 138:8 156:4 189:6 specialist 3:4 3:14 11:12 13:1 specially 2:14 2:16,17 specific 42:4,7 101:4 107:7 115:1 120:16 124:19 143:21 specifically 2:10 8:17 9:2,6 9:9 15:20 109:18 111:11 155:10 specified 210:6 spectrum 115:12 spelled 158:4 spells 158:8 spent 25:19 spirit 186:3 spirituality 16:20 split 64:18 65:2 137:19 spoke 60:11,15 136:1 spoken 38:14 sponsor's 64:17 sports 32:19 95:14 98:2 March 1, 2023 Page 42 105:3 spreading 20:2 spy 173:15 stack 28:18 stacks 16:7 staff 2:19 11:4 13:9 86:10 217:4 stafford 3:2 5:7 5:13,20 6:7,14 11:8,10 14:21 15:7,8 20:14 24:3,5,12,16 25:11 26:6,19 26:20 30:3,4 35:20 36:2,16 73:13,18,19 76:13 93:14,19 93:20 97:2,3 97:17 101:2,3 101:10 122:16 146:21 147:3,4 150:6,15,16 154:1 155:7,8 171:21 172:5,6 174:20 177:8,9 182:20 185:19 186:1,20 188:3 188:4 stage 74:7 78:3 134:20 178:19 stakeholder 46:20 stakeholders 27:8,12 39:16 staley 219:2,19 stamp 110:17 205:3,21 206:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 206:9 stance 137:10 stand 170:7 176:20 218:3 standalone 55:14 standards 63:3 131:4 standing 192:18 standpoint 81:19 102:17 116:11 stands 179:17 stars 109:13 start 20:17 55:8 122:20 133:2 151:8 179:12 starting 21:9 30:21 97:18 104:6 150:20 state 37:12 81:5 94:11 104:2 135:15 156:4 189:5 stated 87:16 160:10 204:16 statement 96:5 statements 219:7 states 16:2 17:2 83:16 94:13 95:5,6 131:4 149:5 197:4 202:3 statesperson 119:17,18 CCAC Meeting [static - swayed] static 107:4 130:17 136:12 stating 40:19 statute 31:17 32:1 33:9 staunch 15:12 stayed 33:2 step 171:8 stepped 12:2 stifle 63:4 stimulating 160:14 stoic 119:8 stood 114:6 stop 35:7 119:2 158:15 159:4 stories 148:1 story 63:2 111:8 113:19 119:14,20 121:19 143:12 165:5,8,16 168:5 170:19 176:2 199:16 202:9,20 203:7 211:6 straight 78:9 161:1 167:1 straightforwa... 46:2 strength 196:18 striking 112:7 135:15 163:6 163:11 165:18 207:2 strong 43:1 46:7 55:7,7 March 1, 2023 Page 43 105:16 120:11 121:14 176:14 190:19 191:4 197:19 198:9 stronger 121:13 125:1 136:20 strongest 19:16 47:14 198:10 206:14 strongly 209:10 struck 56:18 struggle 18:18 students 18:2 study 95:13 stuff 35:6 100:4 stunning 167:20 style 74:8 77:3 177:20 181:11 stylistically 41:18 stylized 24:1 152:2,16 153:3 subject 45:8 subjected 95:8 subsequently 94:5 subtle 43:19 44:18 succeed 74:10 94:9 succeeding 129:14 sudden 136:1 sufficient 121:18 sugar 74:17,19 sugarcane 75:4 suggest 56:7 59:3 99:21 108:19 137:21 140:5,8 171:6 suggested 183:5 suggesting 70:9 137:5 suggestions 100:3 sullivan 3:3 11:11,13 summary 76:1 sun 148:10,11 151:14,17 152:2,17 153:3 159:21 163:18 superstar 74:2 support 83:1 88:13 89:5 92:14 94:19 105:15 138:10 146:20 156:8 156:16 157:3 160:3 162:21 163:20 193:6 supported 113:13 supporting 33:15 48:5 57:9 supportive 20:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 supposed 118:11 204:11 supreme 16:13 16:18 sure 24:16 29:11 36:16 46:17 52:17 56:21 64:3,9 104:21 116:19 121:18,21 122:19 125:19 132:12 137:11 160:19 171:10 187:12,18 204:13 207:15 surgeon 172:13 173:5,8,10,11 179:1 180:2,17 180:19 181:14 181:17 183:9 183:11 186:10 190:1,7 191:16 198:3 199:6,11 205:20 207:7 207:11,15 surgeon's 179:15 181:5 surgical 180:4 surrounded 78:7 98:6 surroundings 46:9 47:9 suspect 27:21 59:6 86:5 suspected 173:15 swayed 199:9 CCAC Meeting [swirl - thank] swirl 77:14 switch 140:2 symbol 22:4 23:5 26:4 102:7,8,19 151:14,17 181:7 199:19 symbolic 21:13 119:13 153:20 symbolically 119:9 symbolism 19:14 24:10,14 46:12 55:13,18 62:2 63:1 113:11,18 159:21 symbolize 78:8 symbolized 25:5 symbolizes 36:3 symbols 97:21 98:2,6 101:21 102:10,21 syracuse 195:6 system 112:14 t t 7:1 95:3 148:18 table 38:16 70:21 71:7,10 119:17 129:16 131:21 132:17 142:7,10 tabletop 38:15 40:13 March 1, 2023 Page 44 take 20:9 43:9 47:6 53:14 59:9 67:6 70:10 92:8 108:17 123:3 136:9 137:5,10 137:20 147:1 156:1 184:12 185:11 186:13 213:17 takemoto 4:6 5:18 10:11 13:20 93:8,13 94:1 95:16 111:1 113:12 127:1 taken 212:21 talk 28:4 61:14 85:13 100:1 120:19 talked 200:6 talking 27:1 58:1 85:19 130:12,13 208:5 tallchief 160:6 tally 67:5 taper 79:13 taste 82:1 tate 3:14 12:21 13:4 teacher 113:17 team 28:13 31:6 technical 23:18 26:9 63:8 78:17 80:12 99:4,8 100:7 103:9 153:11 154:7 155:6 163:9 182:6 188:12 210:15 technically 80:2 television 88:4 88:8 tell 28:7 49:7 50:12 85:6 115:14 143:11 165:5,7,16 168:4 170:8 210:2 telling 121:19 170:19 tells 113:19 168:5 202:8,20 203:7 tend 102:10 130:11 tents 181:2 200:8 term 109:14 198:3 terminology 109:3 110:3 terms 40:17 62:12 94:14,16 108:1 131:1 166:19 193:21 terrific 87:18 territorial 94:10 149:5 test 38:15 40:13 testament 21:17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 text 80:3 178:18 181:16 210:1 text's 211:4 texture 154:15 154:15,19 thank 10:2,3 11:2 15:7 17:9 20:3,10,13,14 20:15 23:11 24:6 26:6 34:9 35:18 37:17 39:18,19 40:1 43:7,8 45:1,4 47:1,2 48:7,8 48:13 51:1,2,5 52:9,10,12 54:17,19 55:2 56:11 58:13 61:9,10 63:10 64:15 65:8,12 66:6,16 67:10 72:18,19 73:3 73:3,18 75:8 76:14 78:16 80:7 81:9 82:3 82:4,6 83:3,4,6 84:11,19,21 86:9,10,13,14 87:11,13,19 88:1,14,15 89:3,16 90:19 91:8,19 92:9 92:13,14,17,18 93:5,7,19 96:12 97:2 99:2 101:6 103:6 104:15 CCAC Meeting [thank - three] 104:17 105:10 105:11,13,20 106:1,7 107:14 107:15 110:5,8 112:21 113:2,6 114:13,14 115:9,10,15 118:17 120:8 121:15 122:3 122:12,13,17 126:5 127:9,11 129:5 131:10 136:15 138:12 139:5,7 141:12 142:20 143:8 143:10,15,16 147:3 150:5,6 150:17 153:9 155:2,14 156:6 156:18,19,21 157:5,7 158:20 158:21 159:2 161:16,18,21 163:1,2,21 164:4,15,16,18 165:19,20 167:15 169:20 170:14 171:2 172:5 174:21 175:7 177:6,8 182:3 186:19 186:20 188:4 188:11 190:20 191:1 193:12 193:15 194:17 194:18,20 198:12,13,16 199:21 200:1 March 1, 2023 Page 45 201:4,5 202:14 202:17 203:11 203:12 206:16 206:17 210:8 210:11 211:18 213:14,21 215:2 216:7,12 216:13,14,21 217:3 thankful 146:19 thanks 170:21 thereof 219:5 thing 42:2 57:11 59:18 105:4 108:6 120:4 145:8,14 167:10 185:2 189:15 190:3 190:12 196:20 201:10,19 things 42:19 43:4 47:8 58:2 73:6 82:17 91:21 107:18 108:13 158:4 191:11 196:11 196:12 think 10:4 27:7 29:9 30:4,20 31:5 32:16 33:11 34:3,12 34:16 35:13 38:7 39:9 40:12,15,18 41:10,14 42:11 42:17 43:5,11 45:14 47:10,15 50:16 51:15,16 52:4 54:6 56:5 57:1 58:5,8,10 58:16 60:13 62:1 65:18 66:3 68:15 71:20 75:18 76:1 81:16 82:15 83:1 86:3,18 87:17 101:17 102:5 104:13 105:6,8 105:16,18 106:20 107:20 108:15 110:11 110:12,21 111:2,6,7 112:2,6 113:15 114:3,10 116:4 117:8 119:9 121:12 122:7,9 125:12 126:11 126:16 127:12 127:13,19 129:2 130:5 132:11 133:13 134:21 140:15 141:2,8,17 157:10,13,16 158:6 159:4 160:21 161:7 161:10 162:18 163:7,19 164:20 165:4,4 176:21 183:17 185:5,13 187:19 189:12 189:21 190:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 190:16 191:8 191:14 192:2,6 192:9,13,17 193:1,9,20 194:3,4,10 196:17 197:17 197:19 198:3,9 198:21 199:7 199:18 201:15 203:9 204:17 205:11 206:5 206:13 209:14 210:4 211:21 215:7 thinking 48:2 112:8 128:6 167:16 thinks 45:6 third 93:10 94:1 thomas 4:11 14:8 thought 58:1 81:19 86:17,20 110:9 115:1,18 118:4 158:14 159:17 160:4 160:11 164:6 166:18 200:8 200:18 201:2 thoughtful 51:3 113:3 160:12 thoughts 42:14 56:2 59:15 three 18:4 55:7 86:16 125:14 142:16 159:11 CCAC Meeting [three - turn] 164:8 166:14 167:7,9 183:14 203:3 thrilled 27:2 throat 19:6 21:18 22:18 41:13 throw 44:20 138:10 thunder 173:17 thurgood 16:6 tiebreaker 138:3 tiebreaker's 138:11 tight 171:4 time 7:14 23:17 25:19,21 30:12 32:16 43:15 56:1 63:10 64:2,8 89:10 93:6 104:5 114:10 137:9 140:5 142:21 148:13 168:9 172:15 173:6 176:16,17 177:3 187:6 189:10 194:14 201:13 212:1 213:2,16 217:9 218:5,6 219:4 times 57:14 166:6 178:18 183:14 186:7 tiny 197:14 tirelessly 15:14 17:6 March 1, 2023 Page 46 title 21:20 95:1 95:5,12 97:20 98:10 107:6,8 111:13 115:1 116:6 120:16 121:4 124:19 128:21 today 11:5 14:17 17:10 48:1 50:4 59:16 73:4,9 84:9 92:15 93:10 96:1 146:16 150:18 166:5 171:15 175:2,12 176:19 195:3 196:6 217:5 today's 10:5 216:19 together 41:21 159:7 160:17 told 56:12 119:6 135:11 tom 175:8 tomorrow 50:3 tone 154:12 took 25:17 tool 71:3,5 toolkit 180:5 tooth 213:3,7 torn 45:5 49:7 113:7 115:12 117:9 147:13 torso 32:2 total 90:7 touch 86:4 87:2 tough 46:15,16 toward 40:8 114:3 199:4 towards 28:1 48:5 78:11 117:20 158:6 203:15 town 14:10 174:14 175:1,3 traditional 162:6 172:16 172:20 traditions 147:17 148:5 transcribed 146:6 219:6 transcriptionist 219:1 translated 148:1 translation 152:4 transparency 28:19 treasury 68:18 131:17 215:10 tremendous 53:1 tremendously 165:1 triangles 151:14 tribal 149:7,9 149:10 tribally 154:5 troops 173:15 troubled 202:21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 true 51:9 219:7 truly 159:15 truth 135:10 try 37:5,13 63:4 80:18 155:19 188:19 209:8 trying 38:19 49:16 65:6 109:6 185:9 210:1 tucker 2:15 9:5 9:7 27:18,19 29:1,2,7,15 30:4 55:1,2,3 68:13,14 71:20 72:2 84:18,19 106:6,7,8 120:8 124:11 124:12 131:13 133:4 157:7,8 158:17 194:19 194:20,21 205:16 209:19 209:20 210:9 215:6 turn 39:20 45:2 47:3 48:9 51:4 52:11 54:21 82:5 83:5 84:17 86:15 87:12,21 88:16 105:12 106:2 107:16 110:6 113:4 114:15 118:18 138:8 159:1 161:19 163:3 164:1,17 CCAC Meeting [turn - version] 165:21 190:21 193:13 194:19 198:14 200:2 201:6 202:16 turning 135:2 156:20 201:18 two 7:16 15:18 25:17 32:14 47:20 55:7,8 56:17 63:6 65:2 79:18 113:8 117:20 119:4,6,19 124:4 125:14 141:11 147:14 151:10,16 152:21 163:14 175:12 207:11 207:20 typeface 127:3 types 33:17 typical 181:11 typically 35:16 typography 127:1 u u.s. 2:19 92:18 92:19 94:11 98:21 106:14 148:12 149:3,8 151:5 173:10 180:16 205:19 ultimately 94:11 unacceptable 18:11 March 1, 2023 Page 47 unanimous 70:19 71:15,19 140:17,19 unanimously 72:10,12 91:4 92:5 216:5 218:2 unbound 162:5 under 95:9 194:14 underscore 191:20 192:3 understand 29:15 45:20 48:21 54:11 60:6 65:6 92:2 103:19 136:10 136:12 138:7 188:21 192:10 understandable 185:16 understructure 130:14 undertake 189:1 undervalued 18:16 uneasy 160:15 unequivocal 137:3 unfortunately 33:2 unhealthy 172:19 uniform 179:15 181:5 uniformly 36:10 unique 29:20 55:10 61:7 74:8 113:16 196:7 198:19 uniqueness 26:1 united 17:2 83:15 94:13 95:6 131:4 149:5 197:4 202:3 unquote 18:10 180:12 213:11 unser 4:15 10:21 unum 66:2 184:15 unusual 30:6 45:7 use 41:11 50:3 99:19 109:16 110:1 114:18 121:6 145:18 157:13 163:8 163:15 179:9 204:12 used 16:14 57:13 71:5 99:17,17 109:14 114:19 115:7 144:13 uses 107:7 120:16 179:3 using 35:6 113:17 145:16 utah 148:9 utmost 131:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 v v 16:10,14 valuable 116:4 117:1 118:21 168:6 value 48:4 200:19 valued 18:13 values 147:20 van 2:17 9:8,11 24:7,7,13 25:16 26:7,7 26:18 32:6,6 32:15 34:6 52:12 68:21,21 69:2 78:20,20 79:7 80:7 82:6 82:12,12 91:6 91:6 100:6,6 101:6,12 105:13,14 126:7 134:2,16 134:17 142:4,4 153:16,16 154:6 155:2 156:6,7 176:12 176:12,16,18 191:1 217:13 variety 98:2 162:2 vasquez 3:5 11:14,16 vehicle 48:17 verbally 210:7 version 182:18 183:18 CCAC Meeting [versions - war] versions 119:20 180:21 versus 56:3 64:18 viable 114:12 vibrancy 85:11 vibrant 124:18 videos 19:1 view 64:17 136:11,12 196:1,3 viewed 23:6 25:5 viewer 118:6 157:21 158:7 viewer's 78:11 views 52:16 violate 31:17 32:3 violating 33:9 violin 151:13 151:18 152:20 153:6 159:20 160:16 165:13 violinist 148:7 virginia 173:18 176:7 visibility 62:12 visible 62:14 vision 27:5 30:10 60:1 63:5 209:9 visit 176:15 visual 131:6 179:5 196:11 visualize 60:5 visually 79:16 130:10,16 March 1, 2023 Page 48 131:2 160:13 195:20 visuals 210:3 vivacious 77:17 voice 74:7 78:9 195:3 voices 35:16 96:13 volunteer 173:12 vote 5:10,17 6:4,11,18 23:15 44:20 64:19,20 65:2 68:10 69:12,14 70:15 71:21 90:21 116:18 123:4 131:12 132:10,13,16 136:8 138:11 139:16,19 140:2,13 148:21 166:3 168:3 169:12 169:18 170:1 185:9,14 199:17 201:19 207:19 215:1,3 215:7 voted 69:12 70:3,4,14 124:15,21 127:20 128:1 139:15 140:8 votes 64:18 67:21 70:3,4 70:13 125:5 164:14 169:19 170:7 202:19 voting 122:20 166:2 w wait 87:5 walk 29:5 walked 20:11 walker 4:11 6:13 10:12 14:6 171:13,19 171:20 172:8 173:4,13,20 174:10 175:6 176:5,8,11 178:5 179:14 180:2,4,12,18 180:21 181:4 181:10,13,19 184:15 188:7 191:5 192:18 195:12 196:4 205:19 213:5 213:12 walkers 175:15 wall 191:7 want 8:3 9:21 13:12 34:18 38:21 39:5 44:15 47:17 50:19 56:9 59:7 64:3,12 65:17 66:12 69:15 82:11 85:1,13 87:10 89:5 92:17 93:5 101:20 110:1 111:16 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 111:20 114:18 116:19 121:16 121:17,20 122:14 124:5 125:18 129:7 131:6,7,8 132:9 135:4 138:15 139:18 140:9 150:2 160:1 165:10 165:17 175:7 187:6 201:10 203:20 208:17 209:13 217:3 wanted 18:12 18:14 40:6 58:18 60:16 61:7 103:1,6 127:21 140:2 144:4 150:5 157:12 182:14 184:2 187:12 200:5,11 205:12 206:2 209:12 210:7 wants 46:19 war 172:13 173:6,16 179:1 180:2,16,19 181:1,14,17 183:9,11 186:10 189:21 190:8,11 191:16 198:1 199:6,11 200:7 200:9 202:12 203:2 207:6,11 207:14 CCAC Meeting [warden - wording] warden 48:19 warrant 43:13 warren 2:20 7:4 9:16,17 10:14,17,18 12:13,17 63:14 63:15 67:7,13 69:6 89:20 212:9,10 215:2 218:8,9 warrior 18:8 washed 81:21 washington 1:8 33:19 104:20 128:15 129:4 wasted 65:2 watch 81:15 100:9,14,18 101:4 watching 88:8 waves 78:8 way 25:8,9 29:13,19 30:1 31:9,20 32:1 35:14 41:8,11 41:19 52:19 53:6,19,20 58:2,11 62:4 70:12 83:18 93:6 96:13 108:17 110:3 112:4 119:16 126:20,21 131:5 139:16 147:10 159:16 162:7 179:8 185:5,6 186:1 186:9 187:9 March 1, 2023 Page 49 188:8 196:6,13 196:17 201:20 212:18 ways 33:7 45:7 55:11 119:6 161:11 we've 28:3 43:15 122:5 127:12 166:5,8 198:20 wear 24:11 174:6 wearer 102:12 wearing 23:4 172:15 188:8 200:21 204:19 wears 87:9,9 weary 19:6 21:18 22:18 41:13 wedding 101:8 101:10 wednesday 1:4 7:13 week 176:9 weigh 57:14 weight 158:14 weinman 3:16 5:9,16 6:3,10 6:17 12:18,20 31:8 32:11,16 67:10,16,18 69:20 70:11,20 71:2 84:12 90:2,5 102:5 103:2 109:17 123:8,10 124:3 125:7,10 126:2 132:9,14,18,21 133:16 138:13 142:16 143:16 144:5 146:3 169:2,4 171:18 182:10 214:2,5 welcome 37:19 83:9 186:15 wendy 13:21 96:1 went 29:10 59:18 189:21 190:6 205:5 western 147:18 165:13 whichever 127:14 white 3:18 13:5 13:7 35:12 120:3 147:10 whitman 4:14 10:20 willing 143:2 winners 187:9 187:17 winning 94:9 wish 28:20 144:11 witness 59:12 219:14 witnessed 135:3 woman 17:1 51:17 66:19 73:2 81:11 84:1 94:12 104:21 111:2 114:5 173:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 174:10 187:5 190:5 191:13 193:7 194:12 women 5:5,12 5:18 6:6,12 10:9,10 13:14 14:15,19 15:13 16:16 18:9 33:5 49:18 73:8,11 74:10 93:8,12 94:20 95:13 98:1,4,7 98:8 106:14 112:3,16 122:8 146:15,18 171:12,16 173:6 women's 15:20 27:13 172:14 172:16,17 177:13,14 181:7 won 203:7 wonderful 55:10 85:12 86:11 88:5 157:2 162:2 wondering 35:1 144:1 word 21:13 39:2 41:11,21 45:15 114:18 127:3 145:17 163:15 199:12 worden 4:11 175:8 216:8 wording 99:10 115:7 157:11 CCAC Meeting [wording - zitkala] 158:13 words 17:12 70:12 75:10 84:4 96:3 99:12 112:1 121:2,6 149:18 163:8 174:17 176:18 196:13 wore 25:4,20 196:4 203:5 212:18 213:1 work 16:8,17 16:21 18:16 22:5 46:11 52:1 53:3 55:14 57:7 75:3 96:21 117:16 124:16 126:12,17 149:1 155:13 177:15 184:8,9 186:9 195:9,20 worked 24:18 27:4 30:8 51:20 135:19 174:13 209:6 211:2 working 35:14 57:8 154:2 172:17 209:3 world 20:5 33:12 38:20 74:11,12 165:12,13 200:10 worlds 147:14 151:10 163:19 165:11 March 1, 2023 Page 50 worldwide 74:9,18 worn 196:6 worried 196:21 worry 87:1 worth 31:12 wounded 173:14 wow 86:20 123:20 wrist 100:10 wristband 100:17 write 23:2 writer 158:2 writing 147:19 148:3 149:12 152:21 writings 19:1 written 210:6 wrong 58:11 141:3,9 201:19 wrote 16:1 19:5 40:5 176:18 x x 5:1 6:1 y yankton 147:8 yay 132:21 133:1 yeah 29:7,16 29:17 36:9 70:11 72:2 82:13 117:7 119:21 140:6 150:8,12 205:18 year 25:17 176:6,6 years 18:5 19:20 20:8 36:12 87:3 104:20 205:14 yesterday 7:17 50:10 67:19 106:15 217:4 yield 56:1 york 14:10 172:9 174:15 175:17 195:6,7 young 105:1 191:13,18 192:3 193:7 younger 176:13 youthful 197:21 205:10 youtube 81:13 z zitkala 4:9 6:6 10:12 14:2 146:15,19 147:6,12 148:6 148:14 149:21 150:10 151:10 151:16,20 152:5,15,20 153:3 161:6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376