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Capital Reporting Company 1 UNITED STATES MINT CITIZENS COINAGE ADVISORY COMMITTEE PUBLIC MEETING TUESDAY, JANUARY 27, 2015 United States Mint 801 9th Street, N.W. Washington, D.C. Reported by: Christine Allen, Capital Reporting Company (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: BUGEJA, Michael, Dr. HOGE, Robert JANSEN, Erik LANNIN, Mary MARKS, Gary, Chairman MORAN, Mike STEVENS-SOLLMAN, Jeanne URAM, Thomas J. WASTWEET, Heidi VIOLA, Herman, Dr. STAFF: ANTONUCCI, Steve BIRDSONG, Betty EVERHART, Don KELLEY, Stacy STAFFORD, April SULLIVAN, Megan VASQUEZ, Roger WEINMAN, Greg (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 3 A G E N D A PAGE Welcome and Call to Order 4 Approval of 10/14/14 Meeting Minutes and Letters to the Secretary 7 Review and Discussion of Concepts and Themes for the 65th Infantry Regiment “Borinqueneers” Congressional Gold Medal 8 Review and Discussion of Candidate Designs for the 2015 High Relief 24K Gold Coin and Silver Medal 58 Report Back on Scoring 150 Lunch 149 Review and Discussion of Candidate Designs for the Jack Nicklaus Congressional Gold Medal 164 Report Back on Scoring 198 Review and Discussion of Themes for the 2017 20th Anniversary American Eagle Platinum Bullion Coin Program 186 Review and Discussion of Themes for the 20182020 American Eagle Platinum Bullion Coin Program 199 Discussion of Annual Report 223 Recessed to Continued on Wednesday, January 28, 2015 234 (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 4 P R O C E E D I N G S (9:34 a.m.) W E L C OME AND CALL TO ORDER C H A I R M AN MARKS: everyone. Good morning, I ’ m calling this Tuesday, January 2 7 , 2 0 1 5 m e e t i n g of the Citizens Coinage A d v i s o r y C o m m i t tee to order. I want to w e l c o m e e v e r y o n e here to the meeting today. W e h a v e a f u l l agenda. I f i r s t want to recognize the guests t h a t w e h a v e w i th us here today representing t h e p r o g r a m s w e will be discussing. R o d r i g u e z w i t h the Borinqueneers. Samuel I’m not s u r e i f e v e r y o n e is here yet. S c o t t Tolley who is with Jack N i c k l a u s , a p r o gram we are going to be looking a t d e s i g n s f o r later on. Jason Rano, who is D i r e c t o r o f G o v ernment Relations for the N a t i o n a l P a r k F oundation, and Donald L e a d b e t t e r , w i t h Centennial Partnership C o o r d i n a t o r s. I w a n t to welcome all of you. w e l c o m e t o o u r meeting. Sam, Also, we have some (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 5 j o u r n a l i s t s w h o are with us today. I want to a s k t h a t i f y o u are a journalist on the phone, p l e a s e i d e n t i f y yourself so we can all know t h a t y o u a r e h e re. M R . G O LINO: This is Louis Golino. M R . W A LKER: This is Hubert Walker fo r CoinWeek. M R . Z I ELINKSI: Mike Zielinski for Coin Update. M R . U N SER: Mike Unser from Coin News . C H A I R M AN MARKS: j u s t c a m e i n t h e room. I see Bill McAlliste r Welcome to you all. B e f o r e I g e t s t arted, I just wanted to cover a l i t t l e b i t o f g round for any folks who might b e h e r e f o r t h e first time and not familiar w i t h o u r c o m m i t tee. W e a r e a committee that was created b y a n a c t o f C o n g r ess in 2003. When Congress c r e a t e d t h e c o m mittee, they had the thought t h a t t h e y w a n t e d to bring together a panel of e x p e r t i s e i n t h e areas of sculpture, metallic a r t s , n u m i s m a t i cs and numismatics curation, (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 6 A m e r i c a n H i s t o r y, and then also put some r e p r e s e n t a t i o n from the Congress, people who a r e r e c o m m e n d e d by various leadership members i n C o n g r e s s u l t imately appointed by the S e c r e t a r y , a n d also representation from the general public. H e r e w ith you today is a rich panel o f f o l k s w h o b r i n g deep backgrounds in their fields. do. W e a r e very passionate about what we W e b e l i e v e in the mission of portraying t h e a c c o m p l i s h m ents, the aspirations, the h i s t o r y o f A m e r ica in coins and medals. W e a r e excited to engage with the v a r i o u s r e p r e s e ntatives of the programs today. T h e o n e t h i n g t hat I will add to this is we a r e n o t a r u b b e rstamp committee; we are here t o p e r f o r m a d u ty that we take very seriously. O f t e n t i m e s w e agree with our sponsors, but we t a k e o u r r o l e v ery seriously. W e w a n t to make sure that whatever th e U . S . M i n t p r o d u ces either in coinage or medals i s s o m e t h i n g t h at on multiple levels is (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 7 successful. O n e, conveying the message that n e e d s t o b e c o n veyed through the medal or c o i n , t o d o i t in a way that articulates b e a u t i f u l a r t a nd a way that honors the p r o g r a m a n d i t s goals. I j u s t wanted to cover that ground so t h a t w e u n d e r s t and what we are doing here. We h a v e h a d s o m e i nstances in the past where I d i d n ’ t d o t h a t and people weren’t clear, so I w a n t e d t o t a k e this opportunity to make sure I c o v e r e d t h a t g r ound. A P P R O V A L O F O CTOBER 14, 2014 MEETING MINUTES A N D L ETTERS TO THE SECRETARY C H A I R M AN MARKS: With that said, firs t i t e m o n o u r a g e nda is to approve the letter a n d m i n u t e s f r o m our October 14, 2014 meeting. T h o s e m a t e r i a l s were provided to the committee i n t h e m e e t i n g packet. I trust you have had a n o p p o r t u n i t y to review those materials. A r e t h ere any changes, additions, d e l e t i o n s t o t h ose documents? ( N o r e sponse.) (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 8 C H A I R M AN MARKS: If there is a motion t o a p p r o v e t h e same, I’d like to take that now. M O T I O N M R . J A NSEN: So moved. M S . W A STWEET: Second. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Moved and seconded t o a p p r o v e t h e l e t ters to the Secretary and the m i n u t e s o f t h e October 14, 2014 meeting. All t h o s e i n f a v o r , please say aye. ( C h o r u s of ayes.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Opposed? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: unanimously. T hank you. Motion carries The next item for d i s c u s s i o n i s t he concepts and themes for the 6 5 t h I n f a n t r y R egiment “Borinqueneers” C o n g r e s s i o n a l G old Medal. R E V I E W A N D D I SCUSSION OF CONCEPTS AND THEMES F O R T H E 6 5 T H I NFANTRY REGIMENT “BORINQUENEERS” C O N GRESSIONAL GOLD MEDAL C H A I R M AN MARKS: We will go to April (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 9 a n d M e g a n f o r t heir reports to us about that program. J u s t a word, we have about an hour a n d f i v e m i n u t e s at this point to cover this ground. I w a n t to make sure that everyone has a n o p p o r t u n i t y to contribute to this discussion. I want to make sure not one p e r s o n m o n o p o l i zes the discussion. I ’ m g o ing to ask that when you are a d d r e s s i n g t h i s issue that you not exceed five minutes. I t h i nk we can say everything we n e e d t o s a y i n five minutes. That way, we can h a v e a t h o r o u g h discussion where everybody is contributing. W i t h t hat, I will go to April and I’l l a s k h e r f o r h e r report. M S . S T AFFORD: Thank you. Before I b e g i n , I ’ d l i k e to repeat to anyone who is j o i n i n g t h i s c o mmittee meeting on the c o n f e r e n c e c a l l to please mute your phone, i n c l u d i n g o u r C CAC member, Mr. Bugeja. That m i g h t b e a c t u a l ly your line that is open, if y o u d o n ’ t m i n d ; on this end we get a lot of (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 10 feedback. T h a n k you. D R . B U GEJA: I have it on mute very j u d i c i o u s l y , s o it’s not me. M S . S T AFFORD: Okay. If everyone who i s o n t h e l i n e could mute your phone that would be great. Thank you. I t i s Public Law 113- 120 that awards t h e C o n g r e s s i o n al Gold Medal in honor of the 6 5 t h I n f a n t r y R egiment known as the “ B o r i n q u e n e e r s ” in recognition of its p i o n e e r i n g m i l i tary service, its devotion to d u t y a n d m a n y a cts of valor in the face of adversity. T h e 6 5 th Infantry Regiment of Puerto R i c o w a s t h e l a st segregated unit of the U n i t e d S t a t e s m ilitary, comprised primarily of H i s p a n i c s o l d i e rs. They fought in World War I , W o r l d W a r I I , and the Korean War. Their s t o r y h a s b e e n described as one of pride, c o u r a g e , h e a r t b reak, and redemption. T h e l i aison has presented the f o l l o w i n g r e c o m mendations for the medal design (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 11 b a s e d o n t h e r e sponses from the Borinqueneers surveyed. F o r i t s obverse, it includes the “65t h I n f a n t r y R e g i m e nt” as the unit name, the war n a m e , s p e c i f i c a lly “Borinqueneers,” and a r e p r e s e n t a t i o n of the official insignia of the U n i t e d S t a t e s A rmy Infantry which depicts crossed rifles. O n t h e reverse, suggestions include t h e d a t e s “ 1 8 9 9 -1956,” which represents the u n i t ’ s 5 7 y e a r s of active duty, the global c o n f l i c t s t h e B orinqueneers were involved in, i n c l u d i n g W o r l d War I, World War II, and the K o r e a n W a r , t h e unit’s motto, “Honor et F i d e l i t a s , ” L a t in for honor and fidelity, a d e p i c t i o n o f E l Morro, El Morro Fort or o f f i c i a l l y “ C a s tillo San Felipe del Morro,” w h i c h w o u l d s t a nd guards at the entrance to S a n J u a n H a r b o r as a reminder of a bygone era w h e n i n v a d i n g c ountries would attempt sea a t t a c k s t o t a k e this prized city and harbor. A l t h o u gh the U.S. would not formally (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 12 e n t e r t h e c o n f l ict in 1917, the first shots f i r e d b y U . S . s oldiers in World War I were from El Morro. The 65th Infantry Regiment s a i l e d p a s t E l Morro to war and also when they r e t u r n e d f r o m w ar. A l s o i deas for the reverse include th e u n i t ’ s d i s t i n c t ive insignia, the Maltese C r o s s , a n d t w o bay laurel branches to s y m b o l i z e t h e v ictory of the 65th Infantry Regiment. T o d a y we have Sam Rodriguez, our l i a i s o n f o r t h e 65th Infantry Regiment C o n g r e s s i o n a l G old Medal. Sam, would you like t o s a y a f e w w o rds? M R . S . RODRIGUEZ: everybody. Yes. Good morning , G o o d morning, everybody, who is l i s t e n i n g i n t o this important historic meeting. I t i s such an honor to be here. w a n t t o t h a n k e veryone. I I took the liberty of t a k i n g a p i c t u r e the first time I was here to s h a r e w i t h m y s takeholders. I b e l i eve you guys and this committee (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 13 i s p a r t o f h i s t ory, and going forward, e v e r y b o d y i n P u erto Rico will know who you are b e c a u s e f o r u s in Puerto Rico, history is very i m p o r t a n t , w e s tudy it very much, and we are v e r y p r o u d o f o ur history, and this committee is part of that. T h i s s tory started many, many years ago. I g o t i n v olved in 2013 and have not s t o p p e d w o r k i n g at it. I d o n o t w o r k a lone. community. This is a team effort. This is a whole I ’ m sure you have documents from s u p p o r t e r s f r o m all across the nation because i t i s v e r y i m p o rtant. M y w o r k in this process started with a c o n v e r s a t i o n b e tween April, Megan, Mr. Bush a n d J a v i e r a n d I when we set out the course of w h a t w e w e r e g o ing to do today up to this p o i n t , t h e t i m e line, the design plan. We c a m e u p w i t h t h e theme and even the thesis. W e s a i d w e w e r e going to let the data draw the design. I n m y 30 years of government service, (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 14 I h a v e i m p l e m e n ted many Acts and in g o v e r n m e n t , t h e rulemaking and transparency, s o w e w e r e g o i n g to apply the same concept to this report. survey. T hat is what we did. We had a W e g o t information from the public, everywhere. I n my report, all of that is all outlined. I j u s t wanted to let everybody know t h a t t h i s h a s b een a very transparent process, e v e r y b o d y i n t h e community knows what is going o n t o d a y b e c a u s e of our social media campaign, e-mails. I j u s t want to thank you for this opportunity. M S . S T AFFORD: Thank you. That’s it, Mr. Chairman. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Do we have any q u e s t i o n s b e f o r e we go forward about the program itself? I want to make sure the m e m b e r s a r e c l e ar about the program or any aspect of it. ( N o r e sponse.) (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 15 C H A I R M AN MARKS: Is there someone who w o u l d l i k e t o b egin with their comments on the program? W h a t I think might be helpful, Mr. R o d r i g u e z , c o u l d you share with us some of the ideas? O b v i o u s ly, you have a lot of passion f o r t h i s p r o g r a m and you have done a lot of work. I t h i n k you probably have a sense of w h e r e y o u w o u l d like the program to go. I t h i n k i t w i l l b e very beneficial if you could s h a r e s o m e o f t hat with us. M R . S . RODRIGUEZ: Sir, yes. Going i n t o t h i s , I d i dn’t want to go in my own d e c i s i o n , I w a n ted to create a document based o n t h e r e c o m m e n dations I received from Megan, w h i c h i s I w a n t ed to create elements that a r t i s t s c o u l d b e inspired to design and come u p w i t h a t h e m e themselves. I don’t want to t a k e a p o s i t i o n on anything because that would b e c o u n t e r p r o d u ctive. I want to let the a r t i s t s t a k e t h at position. M y i d e a was to collect information f r o m a l l a s p e c t s, social, demographics, all (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 16 a s p e c t s o f o u r heritage and our military h e r i t a g e , s o t h e artists when they sit down t h e y h a v e a d o c ument, they don’t have to go n o w h e r e , t h e y j ust look at it and start to t h i n k a n d g e t t heir inspiration juices. T h e B o rinqueneers started out as “ J i b a r o ’ s , ” m e a ning men from the country, and t h e y w e r e w o r k i ng the land, agriculture. d i d n ’ t h a v e a n y education. They One day they found o u t t h e y c o u l d be a part of the United States A r m y , t h e y c o u l d put on a uniform and r e p r e s e n t t h e U nited States of America. T h e y g ot involved. They went out, t h e y s i g n e d u p , and they went to work. became soldiers. They When the time came for them t o g o t o w a r , t hey were like we’re going to go t o w a r , w e ’ r e g oing to take our guitars, we’re g o i n g t o g o t o war. a warning. They said we have to give T h e y automatically went to “ B o r i n q u e n e e r ” which stems from the word “ B o r i n q u e n , ” w h ich is the indigenous name of Puerto Rico. I explain all that in the (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 17 report. T h a t b ecame their battle name and the y w e n t t o w a r w i t h that. As soon as they got t h e r e , t h e y w e r e engaged, they got on a train, a n d s t r a i g h t t o the hills. T h e w a r in Korea was about always c l a i m i n g t h e h i gher land. Most of their b a t t l e s w e r e g o ing to the mountains. A f t e r the comment period ended, in P h i l a d e l p h i a , a road was named after the B o r i n q u e n e e r s , 65th Infantry Regiment. I went t h e r e t o p a r t i c ipate in the festivities on V e t e r a n s ’ D a y , and while I was there, I got to m e e t M r . H e c t o r Maisonave. Hector Maisonave w a s a m e m b e r o f the Borinqueneers. c a n n o t s e e t o d a y. This man He’s blind, but his mind is s h a r p a s a r a z o r. H e t o l d me a story about his i n t e r a c t i o n , h i s experience in going into the m o u n t a i n s , h o w they would go into the mountains. H e explained he would be the point m a n w i t h t h e m a chine gun going into battle, (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 18 f a c i n g d e a t h , a nd that everybody on each side f o r m i n g a d i a m o nd would have their bayonets r e a d y t o g o a n d do whatever they had to do. T h a t ’ s how he explained that to me. I d o c u m e n t e d a l l of that and I put it in the r e p o r t b e c a u s e I thought that was striking. T h r o u g hout the survey, almost e v e r y b o d y w h o p articipated in the survey w a n t e d t o s e e K orea. In the survey, I put do y o u w a n t t o s e e World War I, World War II, or Korea. A l m o s t unanimously, it was Korea and bayonets. T h a t kind of made my analysis very simple. T h e y a lso migrated to the official p a i n t i n g o f t h e fixed bayonets of the B o r i n q u e n e e r s t hat was commissioned by the U n i t e d S t a t e s G uard. Everybody likes it. T h a t i s a p a i n t ing that was commissioned by t h e G u a r d a n d n ot the regular Army, that is w h y I k i n d o f t hought it would be best for the a c t u a l a r t i s t s to see that and for this c o m m i t t e e t o s e e that. We want to keep it as (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 19 t r u e t o t h e s t o ry as ever. I d e v e loped all that information. My s u r v e y w a s a s u rvey that was open to all s t a k e h o l d e r s , f amily members, historians, not j u s t B o r i n q u e n e ers but everybody who had an i n t e r e s t , a n d I conveyed that information. I t h i n k i t i s g o i ng to inspire the artists to do great work. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you very much. Hello? M R . M O RALES: Good morning. My name i s J a v i e r M o r a l es, BCGM, Puerto Rico, if I c o u l d h a v e a f e w minutes. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Yes; please. Please go ahead, sir. M R . M O RALES: Thank you. I have been d o w n h e r e i n P u erto Rico since 2006. I was i n s p i r e d t o g e t involved with researching the Borinqueneers. My time has been spent in the l a s t e i g h t y e a r s going around the island l o o k i n g f o r v e t erans that have been forgotten r e a l l y , n o t o n l y as members of the U.S. Armed (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 20 F o r c e s , b u t a l s o when they come back after s p e n d i n g a l o t of sweat and tears, they have b e e n f o r g o t t e n as well. Their benefits have not been met. I t h i n k we need a memorial that will i n s p i r e t h e w o r ld to know veterans from Puerto R i c o h a d a l o t to do with the history of the U n i t e d S t a t e s b y not only in the Korean War b u t p r i o r t o t h at, during World War II as well. W e k i n d of should give a lot of credi t t o t h o s e v e t e r a ns that joined the U.S. Army d u r i n g W o r l d W a r I and World War II. They w e n t i n w i t h o u t knowing any English. They had t o l e a r n t h a t l anguage, a different language. T h e y n ot only learned that language, t h e y l e a r n e d t o be disciplined, and that i n v o l v e m e n t i n World War I and World War II w a s c a r r i e d f o r ward to the veterans of the Korean War. T h ey were the ones that trained t h e n e w s o l d i e r s. I t h i n k we can see the outcome, the (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 21 r e s u l t s f r o m t h at by seeing what happened. T h e y w e r e v e r y dedicated and went in with v a l o r , w i t h d e t ermination, to do what they had t o d o , a n d t h e y did it. I think that is very i m p o r t a n t t o k e ep in mind, not only the Korean W a r v e t e r a n s , b ut we had World War I and World W a r I I h e r o e s , which many of them didn’t know w h a t w a s e x p e c t ed of them, but they went in t h e r e a n d t h e y did it. I t h i n k honoring all the Borinqueneer s i s v e r y i m p o r t a nt to all of us. Down here in P u e r t o R i c o , I was able to travel, trying to g e t f e e d b a c k f r om them, meeting the veterans a n d a s k i n g t h e m what would you like to see. A g a i n , s o m e o f the results were fast forwarded t o S a m , a n d r e c orded in the report as well. A l l t h e veterans here in Puerto Rico a r e a n x i o u s t o see what the results are. I r e a l l y w a n t t o thank you for taking the time y o u h a v e g i v e n us to do this. I thank e v e r y b o d y f o r h earing our recommendations. Thank you. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 22 C H A I R M AN MARKS: C O L . F REYTES: Thank you. Could I speak? This i s C o l . D e n n i s F r e ytes, U.S. Army retired, former P r o f e s s o r o f M i litary Science at the U n i v e r s i t y o f P uerto Rico. I would like to s p e a k o n b e h a l f of my father, Borinqueneer M e n e n d e z , a n d m y uncle, who greatly fought w i t h t h e B o r i n q ueneers. Can I say a few words? C H A I R M AN MARKS: C O L . F REYTES: Yes, please, sir. First, I want to thank S a m R o d r i g u e z a nd Javier Morales. t h e y w e r e e x c e l lent liaisons. I think They really b r o u g h t i n a l o t of good things about the B o r i n q u e n e e r s a nd held a lot of events here in F l o r i d a a n d i n Puerto Rico. I w o u l d like to add one event in the B o r i n q u e n e e r s ’ lives is a famous charge. It w a s t h e l a s t i n fantry bayonet charge, and s h o u l d b e c a p t u red on this coin. I have r e c o m m e n d e d t h a t one side of the coin say “The B o r i n q u e n e e r s , ” have the flags of the United (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 23 S t a t e s a n d P u e r to Rico, because it is very i m p o r t a n t t o i d entify Puerto Rico from where t h e B o r i n q u e n e e rs came, even though we have a l o t o f B o r i n q u e neers residing all over in d i f f e r e n t s t a t e s. O n t h e other side of the coin, like m e n t i o n e d , t h e 65th Infantry Regiment and 1 8 9 9 , a n d t h e n the infantry rifles over the s h i e l d w h e r e i t says “Honor and Fidelity.” I ’ m a former commander of Infantry, S p e c i a l F o r c e s and Airborne. This was an i n f a n t r y u n i t a nd it should be recognized. U n d e r that, World War I, like Javier m e n t i o n e d , W o r l d War II and Korea, and at the e n d , “ U . S . / P u e r to Rico.” It is very important t h a t p e o p l e u n d erstand where the Borinqueneers c a m e f r o m , a n d their most important action b e i n g t h a t c h a r ge in U.S. Army history. T h a n k you very much. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you, sir. a r e g o i n g t o g o ahead to our committee discussion. I will first recognize Erik (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 We Capital Reporting Company 24 Jansen. M R . J A NSEN: I want to thank Sam for t h e b a c k g r o u n d material you provided us. It w a s s o m e o f t h e most thorough, colorful, crisp t h a t w e h a v e r e ceived in a while, so thank you. I t m a d e i t easy to understand the story. A s I r ead through that, it was i n t e r e s t i n g o n e particular word jumped out at m e , a n d I w a s k ind of moved to examine that w o r d , a n d t h e w ord was “up hill battles.” T h a t i s a w o r d we throw around any time s o m e t h i n g i s t o ugh, oh, it’s an up hill battle. S u d d e n ly, when I read your piece, I h a d a v i s i o n o f guys going up hill against the o l d a d a g e , “ A l w ays hold the high ground in a b a t t l e , ” a n d w h en you don’t, you are at a disadvantage. The up hill piece of that, I e x a m i n e d t h a t w ord and suddenly this story c a m e a l i v e f o r me. A s w e try to draft directions and i n s p i r a t i o n t o the artists, I’m not sure what (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 25 I w o u l d d o w i t h that, but I’m not the artists t h a t w i l l g e t t o figure that out. The up hill b a t t l e s e e m s t o be the constant here along s i d e - - w e c a n make a long list of words -“courage.” Q u i t e frankly, another thing that was s t r i k i n g i n t h e story was the transition from a p r o u d s e g r e g a ted group to a group that had p r o v e n i t s e l f a nd then essentially u n s e g r e g a t e d w i thout losing the strength of i t s l e g a c y a n d pride. That would be the s e c o n d p i e c e o f this. T h e l a st commenter mentioned a symbol o f c r o s s e d f l a g s, and that might be a way to d o i t a l t h o u g h certainly not the only way. I t h i n k t h e r e i s a story here about the t r a n s i t i o n f r o m a segregated group in a time o f s e g r e g a t i o n which carried its strengths f o r w a r d t o s h a r e them in a non- segregated w o r l d a s t h e y p roved themselves in their s e r v i c e i n t h e Korean War and certainly postWorld II period. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 26 I t h i n k the Maltese Cross insignia is a p o w e r f u l s y m b ol which could be almost a c e n t r a l f e a t u r e on one side of this medal. It i s s u c h a b o l d and simple yet identifiable c h a r a c t e r i s t i c of the organization. I w o u l d encourage the artists not to r e p e a t t h e k i n d of El Morro architecture that w a s f e a t u r e d o n the 50 States quarter, when we d i d t h e t e r r i t o rial adjunct to that at the end of that program. You will recall that quarter h a s t h e r o u n d t urret featured on it, along w i t h a f l o w e r , I think, off to the right at t h e 3 : 0 0 p o s i t i on if I remember right. I w o u l d encourage us to almost look b e y o n d t h a t a n d really try to dig i n s p i r a t i o n a l l y into the character of this g r o u p i n t h e s e gregation move to join the p o w e r o f t h e U n ited States and not just the P u e r t o R i c a n h i story, as well as the up hill battle. T h a t i s a rich one. T h a t w ould be my comments. Thank you , Chairman. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 27 C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you. Mary, ar e you ready? M S . L A NNIN: what Erik said. questions. Yes, I am. I agree with I’d like to ask a couple of “ B o rinquena” is the daughter of t h e s u n a n d t h e sea.” Is there in Puerto Rico a f i c t i o n a l r e p resentation of this woman? M R . S . RODRIGUEZ: No, ma’am. That w a s t h e c o m p o s i tion that became the anthem of P u e r t o R i c o , a n d the composer, Manuel F e r n a n d e z J u n c o s, just described Puerto Rico a s b e i n g t h e d a ughter of the sea and -M S . L A NNIN: There is no fictional i m a g e t h a t p e o p le would identify with that concept? M R . S . RODRIGUEZ: I wish there were, but no. M S . L A NNIN: Okay. I also like the i d e a o f t h e M a l tese Cross, but one of the t h i n g s I w a s r e ading in this very rich history t h a t y o u p r o v i d ed us is the use of bayonets. T h a t i s s o m e t h i ng I really don’t think about (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 28 n o r m a l l y w h e n I think about war, and how p e r s o n a l a n d c l ose that must be, and without g i v i n g t h e a r t i sts any ideas of mine, but what i f t h e M a l t e s e Cross were made out of bayonets. J u s t a thought. T h a t ’ s it for me. C H A I R M AN MARKS: D R . V I OLA: Very good. Herman? I’m Herman Viola. h i s t o r i a n o n t h is committee. I’m th e I want to say I f e e l t h i s i s a very historic moment. I am a c t u a l l y q u i t e proud that I could be part of t h i s s e s s i o n a n d make this a reality. In f a c t , I ’ m s u r p r ised we haven’t recognized this group before. I r e a l ly liked the discussion. It’s a m a t t e r o f w h a t the veterans would like to see. I t h i n k t h a t i s a very creative idea with the bayonets. I a m really looking forward to the a r t i s t i c d e s i g n s that would come out of this. H a v e y our people done any drawings t h e y c o u l d s h a r e with us that maybe they have g i v e n s o m e t h o u ght to as to what they would (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 29 l i k e t o s e e , t h e up hill, the bayonets? M R . S . RODRIGUEZ: No, a lot of s t a k e h o l d e r s s e nt in some drawings themselves b u t b e c a u s e i t would be better for the artists t o c o m e u p w i t h their own designs, I kind of l e f t t h a t t o t h e professionals. I w a n t ed something that would be c r i s p , o r g a n i c , but we have the complete i n t e l l e c t u a l p r operty and ownership. The r e n d i t i o n t h a t I provided was a compilation of s t o r i e s f r o m B o rinqueneers. T h e r e was a movement in Florida where p e o p l e w e r e a l s o participating in designs. W h e n I g o t t h a t information, I just noted the e l e m e n t s , a n d I added it in one of the a p p e n d i c e s o f t he report, just to show the t r a n s p a r e n c y a n d integrity of the process, t h a t e v e r y t h i n g was used in the analysis of this report. D R . V I OLA: Thank you. I can v i s u a l i z e s o m e very exciting designs. I’m l o o k i n g f o r w a r d to see what the artists come (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 30 up with. T h a n k you. M R . M E DINA: Mr. Viola, this is Frank M e d i n a , N a t i o n a l Chair for Borinqueneers C o n g r e s s i o n a l G old Medal Alliance. With the r e s p e c t o f t h e Chair and Sam Rodriguez, I’d l i k e t o a d d r e s s your question real quick. I w a s under the understanding that v i s u a l r e n d i t i o ns were not allowed due to any p o t e n t i a l c o p y r ight infringement. I’m sure h a s r e c e i v e d a lot of renditions from the v e t e r a n s t h e m s e lves. I know I did. f o r w a r d e d t h e m on to the U.S. Mint. I I think S a m r e c e i v e d t h ose as well. T o a n s wer your question, yes, there h a v e b e e n a l o t of veteran renditions. D R . V I OLA: Okay. M R . W E INMAN: c o u n s e l f o r t h e Mint. Thank you. This is Greg Weinman, That is correct, for c o p y r i g h t r e a s o ns, in order to ensure we were a b l e t o c r e a t e a design that we could use, t h a t w e d o n ’ t i nfringe on anybody else’s c o p y r i g h t s , r e f erence materials but not actual (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 31 depictions. M S . S T AFFORD: Mr. Viola, I just w a n t e d t o a d d , the discussion for today is to s o l i c i t i n p u t f rom the committee with regard t o i d e a s t h a t t he artists might come to these designs with. Certainly if you have s u g g e s t i o n s , i d eas, or as you say, you can e n v i s i o n e x c i t i ng designs, that, I believe, is s o m e t h i n g y o u c an put on the record and we w i l l s h a r e w i t h the artists to consider as t h e y m o v e f o r w a rd. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Actually, I have s o m e t h i n g t o a d d to this discussion, and that i s a s t h e c o m m i ttee’s representative as Chair, I w a s a b l e t o l ook at some extensive documents t h a t w e r e p r o v i ded by the Borinqueneers C o n g r e s s i o n a l G old Medal Alliance, a very well p u t t o g e t h e r d o cument with lots of i l l u s t r a t i o n s a nd ideas in it. I ’ m s u re if committee members between n o w a n d w h e n w e review the art would like to h a v e a n o p p o r t u nity to review those materials, (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 32 I t h i n k w e c a n certainly make that available to you. I d i d want to make sure that those r e s p o n s i b l e w i t h the Alliance knew that I as C h a i r m a n d i d l o ok at their materials and very m u c h a p p r e c i a t e the effort that went into that. I t w a s q uite extensive. There was a g r e a t d e a l o f i nput from a number of i n d i v i d u a l s r e p resented in that, a three ring binder. A g a i n , if that is something that woul d i n t e r e s t c o m m i t tee members, I can surely make s u r e i t m a k e s i ts way to you. D R . V I OLA: M R . M O RALES: Okay. Thank you. Excuse me, this is J a v i e r M o r a l e s from Puerto Rico, we sent in s o m e o f o u r d e s igns as well and I think they s h o u l d a l s o b e looked at by the committee. M R . M E DINA: Also, the National A s s o c i a t i o n f o r Uniformed Services for C o n g r e s s i o n a l G old Medal Alliance sent some d e s i g n s , a n d w e also relinquish all (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 33 copyrights. W e would like for that to be seen b y t h e c o m m i t t e e. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Okay. I need to mak e s u r e t h a t t h e c ommittee members all get a c h a n c e t o w e i g h in on this. I am going to d i r e c t t h e d i s c ussion back to the committee members. M R . C . RODRIGUEZ: Good morning. May I i n t e r r u p t f o r a minute, please? C H A I R M AN MARKS: Yes, go ahead. Afte r y o u a r e d o n e , s ir, we need to give the c o m m i t t e e m e m b e rs a chance to discuss this p r o g r a m s o w e c an have a full discussion a m o n g s t t h e c o m mittee. Please proceed and t e l l u s w h a t y o u would like us to know. M R . C . RODRIGUEZ: My name is Casimir o R o d r i g u e z f r o m the Hispanic Heritage Council, B u f f a l o , N e w Y o rk. Our organization was part o f t h e N a t i o n a l Congressional Gold Medal Alliance. J u s t a point of clarification. Is t h e r e s o m e t i m e line as to when all the ideas a n d i n p u t n e e d s to be in by? Is there a time (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 34 b y w h i c h a l l t h is information needs to get to the committee? C H A I R M AN MARKS: I would suggest in t h e i n t e r e s t o f time -- that’s a very relevant q u e s t i o n , s i r , but I would ask that be d i r e c t e d t o s t a ff off line. They can give you a n a n s w e r i n d e tail. F o r t h is period of time, which is l i m i t e d f o r u s , I want to make sure that our c o m m i t t e e m e m b e rs have a full opportunity to d i s c u s s a l l t h a t has already been spoken to by t h e v a r i o u s s p o nsors and interested parties in this program. I a m g oing to ask for all those on th e p h o n e a n d i n t h e audience here if you would p l e a s e g i v e o u r committee a chance to talk. O u r t i m e i s l i m ited. At this point, if I c o u l d h a v e a n o t her member who would like to contribute. H e idi, would you go ahead, please? M S . W A STWEET: Thank you, Gary. t h i s c o m m i t t e e , we see a lot of military (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 On Capital Reporting Company 35 medals. T h e r e is a tendency that after time t h e y s t a r t t o l ook very generic and very much like each other. I would urge in this case we w a n t t o r e a l l y focus on the things that made t h i s g r o u p u n i q ue and what identifies them t h a t m a k e s t h e m different from all the other military groups. T h e r e is also a tendency to put a lot o f w o r d s o n t h i s, we have “pride” and “ c o u r a g e , ” w o r d s that are thrown around all b r a n c h e s o f t h e military, and they do e n c o m p a s s a l l o f the military. After using t h o s e w o r d s o v e r and over again, they fall flat. I w a n t to caution against using too m u c h i n s i g n i a ’ s and words that would be better l e f t f o r f o l l o w up conversations and make the m e d a l v e r y v i s u al so it really grabs people so t h e y w a n t t o t a lk about it rather than read the medal. C H A I R M AN MARKS: I need another c o m m i t t e e m e m b e r who would like to comment. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 36 Jeanne? M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: Thank you, Gary. I w o u l d f o l l o w up with what Heidi says. y o u , M r . R o d r i g uez. Thank I would like to enhance o u r k n o w l e d g e o f history. I am very honored t o h a v e r e a d y o ur reports. It’s a pleasure to meet you. I w o u l d like to know, you have given u s , o u r c o m m i t t ee, and our artists a t r e m e n d o u s a m o u nt of information, it’s very p o w e r f u l , h o w e v er, what is it if we boiled it d o w n - - w h a t c a n you tell us that is terribly important? I n o t h er words, if we could weed out s o m e o f i t , b e c ause we have a small field to w o r k f r o m , n o t a big story board, what would b e t h e b e s t i n your opinion or your s t a k e h o l d e r s ’ o pinion to represent this medal? I c a n see tons of things, but what w o u l d y o u r p e o p le like best? M R . S . RODRIGUEZ: Well, to make our m e d a l u n i q u e , I included some pictures of (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 37 h i g h l y a w a r d e d soldiers that fought in battle. I n o n e o f t h e a ppendices, I included six p i c t u r e s t h a t s how the broad spectrum of our d e m o g r a p h i c s a n d our heritage. O n e o f those is Sergeant Major Negron . H e w a s a w a r d e d the Medal of Honor. M o d e s t o C a r t a g e na. Also, Arcadio Santiago- R o d r i g u e z , a n d others. are still alive. Also, I think some of them Enrique Vazquez- Vega is l i v i n g t o d a y i n Pennsylvania. I w a n t us to move forward and not w a s t e t o o m u c h time because time is of urgency. J u s t this past weekend, two B o r i n q u e n e e r s d ied. They are dying every day. Y o u h a ve enough information there to m a k e a m e d a l n e xt week. forward. We need to move T h e p ictures are there. We have B o r i n q u e n e e r s t hat are black, white, full s p e c t r u m o f b e a uty and diversity of our little island. A l l o f those are included there. B o r i n q u e n e e r , h is descendants live here in Maryland. A n o t her one is alive in Florida. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 One Capital Reporting Company 38 W e w a n t t o h o n o r them while they are still w i t h u s s o t h e y can enjoy the blessings of t h e i r l a b o r a n d their sacrifices. I n t e r ms of flags, there is a lot of passion. I w o u ld carry a flag in my sock, but I w o u l d r e f r a i n from that because the B o r i n q u e n e e r s b ecame a desegregated unit, and m a n y s o l d i e r s w ere from Hawaii, Texas, so we w a n t t o m a k e t h is an Americana, an American, s y m b o l i s m , v e r y simple, not too busy, so all A m e r i c a c a n e m b race the medal and participate i n t h e h i s t o r y , and we can tell our story to t h e e n t i r e n a t i on. L a s t y ear, in the 60th anniversary of t h e K o r e a n W a r , USA Today published a special r e p o r t a b o u t t h e 65th Infantry. Not one l e t t e r , n o t o n e page or one phrase ever t o u c h e d u p o n t h e 65th Infantry. W e f e e l we need to get an opportunity t o b e a t t h e f r ontline. Even though we have w r i t t e n o u r o w n history with blood and tears, t h e m e d i a h a s n ’ t given us -- we want to move (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 39 f o r w a r d a n d h a v ing those men would be a great w a y t o t e l l o u r history. It will show our h e r o e s , o u r J o h n Wayne’s, so to speak. T h a t i s what I kind of depicted and s a w f r o m t h e i n formation we collected from the stakeholders. M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: Thank you very much. C H A I R M AN MARKS: M R . U R AM: Thomas? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. S o m e o f t h e s a m e comments I would echo as Mary m e n t i o n e d a b o u t the bayonets and Heidi about t h e s i m p l i c i t y and so forth. Both Sam and the C o l o n e l m e n t i o n ed the importance of the f o r m a t i o n a n d t he diamond formation. I t h i n k what would be really nice is t o i n c o r p o r a t e whether it is the cross and the b a y o n e t s o r w h a tever into a diamond type d e s i g n t h a t w o u ld set off the insert of what t h a t d e s i g n m i g ht be. I would think that the a r t i s t s m i g h t w ant to take a look at both what S a m a n d t h e C o l onel have said about the (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 40 f o r m a t i o n a n d s o forth as being an integral p a r t o f t h e d e s ign, particularly if it was e n c a p s u l a t e d t h at way. M R . S . RODRIGUEZ: I believe an a p p e n d i x h a s i n fantry formations of a V. If y o u w e r e t o l o o k at that picture, you could s e e f a c e s o f m e n in front and those on the s i d e c o m i n g u p to mountains ready to kill you w i t h b a y o n e t s a nd rifles ready to go, because w e f e e l t h i s i s a story of men that actually - - t h e i r h a n d s had to defend themselves and a d v o c a t e f o r A m erican democracy in foreign lands. I f y o u take that concept of a V f o r m a t i o n c o m i n g up, you automatically can see m e n o n y o u r l e f t and on your right. You can e v e n s e e t h e p a tches on their shoulders if you p u t i t i n t h e r ight angle. I’m sure the a r t i s t s f r o m w o rk I have seen from this agency - - I a m v e r y , v ery impressed and very, very c o n f i d e n t s o m e t hing beautiful is going to come out of this. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 41 M R . U R AM: I would certainly encourag e o u r d e s i g n e r s a nd engravers to maybe use that c o n c e p t t o g e t that depth of perception and t a k i n g i n t o a c c ount that formation design so t h a t c a n b e v e r y moving and the medal would h a v e a l o t o f d epth to it that way. I think u s i n g t h e d i a m o nd formation would accomplish b o t h t h e h i s t o r y aspect as well as the c r e a t i v i t y o f t he engraver. T h a n k you, Mr. Chairman. C H A I R M AN MARKS: D R . B U GEJA: Another member? Gary, this is Michael Bugeja. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Yes, Michael. Go ahead, please. D R . B U GEJA: I am a citizen of Malta a s w e l l a s t h e United States. I do want to p o i n t o u t t h a t the Maltese Cross has to be d o n e v e r y c a r e f ully because there are other i n s i g n i a t h a t l ook a lot like that, including the Iron Cross. T h e M a ltese Cross has very spear like (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 42 p o i n t s t o w a r d s the center. If you take a look a t h o w t h e y h a v e used it, it is a perfect Maltese Cross. The Maltese Cross dates back t o t h e K n i g h t s of St. John, and it stands for, i n a d d i t i o n t o honor and faith, courage, p a r t i c u l a r l y c o urage under fire. For i n s t a n c e , t h e N ew York Fire Department also h a s a d o p t e d t h e Maltese Cross. I ’ v e r esearched this a little bit to s e e h o w t h e 6 5 t h Infantry Regiment has used t h e s h i e l d a n d Maltese Cross. There is a very f e t c h i n g d e s i g n by Rafael Cortez that shows it a l m o s t a s a s h i eld for the Infantry climbing up that hill. It is a stylistic type of a r t w o r k t h a t h a s depth to it. T h e o n ly thing I really wanted to m e n t i o n w a s b e very, very careful with how you d e p i c t t h e M a l t ese Cross because there are m a n y o t h e r t y p e s of crosses that are often confused for it. I t h i n k that might be the extent of m y c o n t r i b u t i o n , G ary. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 43 C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you, Michael. Robert? M R . H O GE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I w o u l d l i k e t o e cho the comments of my colleagues here. I look forward to the o p p o r t u n i t y t o see the various designs/ideas t h a t h a v e b e e n submitted. I a m w ondering if this isn’t an o p p o r t u n i t y f o r us to introduce a little bit o f S p a n i s h l a n g uage into an American coin. C H A I R M AN MARKS: I know you can do that; yes. M R . H O GE: I think that would lend a d i s t i n c t i v e a s p ect to this coinage, give it s o m e t h i n g d i f f e rent from all these other many m i l i t a r y c o n g r e ssional medals that have come o u t i n o n e w a y or another. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you, Robert. Michael Moran. M R . M O RAN: I have only a couple of n o t e s o r a d v i c e for the artists as they c o n t e m p l a t e t h e ir themes and designs. One, if (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 44 y o u d o t h e P u e r to Rico flag, you must do the U n i t e d S t a t e s f lag, because as Mr. Rodriguez m e n t i o n e d , i t w as at the end an integrated unit. T w o , I ’ m sure we are going to see s o m e t h i n g f r o m the canvas of a bayonet charge. I w o u l d remind our artists we are in 3 D a n d w e d o n ’ t have a canvas to paint on here. I w o u l d hope they instead bring the e l e m e n t o f t h e bayonets somehow more c r e a t i v e l y i n t o the design rather than a mass o f m e n c h a r g i n g up the hill. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you, Michael. I t h i n k e v e r y o n e has commented. I will bring u s f u l l c i r c l e then with some final comments. F i r s t of all, I wanted to thank Mr. Rodriguez. Y o u have said a number of times t h a t y o u r p r e f e rence is to allow the artists t o b e a r t i s t s a nd to bring forth the ideas, t h e v a l u e s t h a t would represent the B o r i n q u e n e e r s a ppropriately. I appreciate that very much. M y y e a rs on the committee have been (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 45 s p e n t i n a l a r g e measure advocating that very i d e a , t h a t t h e art ought to be something that i s a l l o w e d t o s peak to us, and sometimes we w a n t t o c o m m a n d eer the art and we want to put l o t s o f t e x t a n d those sorts of elements onto a m e d a l , w h i c h is by its nature very small, b u t i t i s a n o p portunity if we allow it for a r t t o b e u s e d in a way that can speak in ways t h a t w o r d s n e v e r can, to speak to the soul a b o u t i m p o r t a n t ideas or values. A s I w as sitting here listening to al l o f t h e c o n v e r s a tion from all the contributors, I w a s l e f t w i t h just a series of some words t h a t I w o u l d h o pe would inspire the artists to t h i n k i n t h e c o ntext of art that can speak to u s r a t h e r t h a n art that is co- joined with e x c e s s i v e t e x t and other ideas that try to c o e r c e u s i n t o a certain conclusion about what w e a s i n d i v i d u a ls feel and see with the art. W o r d s like “valor” and “honor,” and I f i r s t s a i d “ t e a m,” but I think “team” doesn’t quite get at it. I think it’s more (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 46 brotherhood. T hese were men obviously who had t o b a n d t o g e t h e r and protect each other, to l o o k o u t f o r e a ch other, especially in the h e a t o f b a t t l e , to have each other’s back, to u s e a w e l l w o r n term at this point. T h e o t her ideas that I would hope c o u l d s p e a k t o us through the art are the i d e a s o f “ c o u r a ge” and “dignity,” “service.” I ’ m t a k i n g t h e idea of what my colleague Erik s a i d a b o u t t h e idea that this is an up hill b a t t l e , t h a t i n fact, that is what these men h a d t o e n g a g e i n often, to take the hill. I g u e s s all I would like to do rather t h a n t r y t o s t e er the artists is to leave them w i t h t h e i m p r e s sion of these words and ask t h e m t o t h i n k a bout those in terms of action, t h a t w h a t t h e s e men really represented were t h e s e i d e a l s p u t in action. ideals. They lived these T h o s e are the kinds of inspirations I w o u l d h o p e o u r artists would pick up on and t r y t o c o n v e y t o us through their work. I ’ m v e ry much looking forward to the (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 47 t i m e w h e n a l l o f the stakeholders both on the p h o n e a n d h e r e in the room can come and join u s a g a i n w h e n w e are actually looking at the designs. I ’ m v ery excited about that. I t h i n k this is a part of our history , a n d o t h e r s h a v e said it here in the room, that w e h a v e n ’ t p a i d enough attention to. I think m o s t A m e r i c a n s are fairly oblivious to it, frankly. I t h i n k this is a wonderful o p p o r t u n i t y t o educate and help build honor a n d r e s p e c t f o r these gentlemen who sometimes w e r e c a l l e d o n to give everything in the d e f e n s e o f t h e i r country, their peoples, their f a m i l i e s , a n d I think for artists, this is a h i g h c a l l i n g , a nd I’m very much looking f o r w a r d t o w h a t they will come back and give to us. W e h a v e a few more minutes. I wanted t o m a k e s u r e t h at all the stakeholders felt t h e y w e r e a b l e to contribute to our discussion. I ’ m going to give another 10 (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 48 m i n u t e s i f t h e r e are others who want to c o n t r i b u t e a l i ttle bit more. This is your time. I f y o u ’re on the phone, or Mr. R o d r i g u e z h e r e in the room, if there is s o m e t h i n g a d d i t ional you would like us to know t h a t w o u l d b e c o me part of this dialogue c o n v e y e d t o t h e artists, this would be your opportunity. C O L . F REYTES: This is Dennis Freytes . I t h i n k y o u h i t it right on the head. I think t h i s t e a m w o r k o f the U.S. Mint is right on t a r g e t , l i k e t h ey said in the military. O n e o f the things that Sam mentioned a b o u t t h e M e d a l of Honor winners and all that, i f w e a r e g o i n g to have a depiction of their b r a v e r y i n t a k i ng the hill, and remember, they d i d t h e l a s t b a yonet charge in U.S. Army history. Y o u c ould almost superimpose the M e d a l o f H o n o r and Master Sergeant Negron’s f a c e , C a r t a g e n a ’s face, taking the hill with the bayonets. You can accomplish both goals (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 49 there. I w o u l d also say you need to put s o m e w h e r e i n t h ere “U.S./Puerto Rico.” It is v e r y i m p o r t a n t that people understand they c o m e f r o m t h e U .S. Territory of Puerto Rico. O v e r a l l, great job, great themes. I t ’ s a n h o n o r t o have been able to talk before t h i s h o n o r a b l e Board. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you, sir. Mr. R o d r i g u e z h a s s ome comments to make. M R . S . RODRIGUEZ: Yes. Earlier the s u g g e s t i o n a b o u t language, I find it a good o p p o r t u n i t y a n d very interesting. l o v e r o f t h e S p anish language. I am a However, on t h i s m e d a l , I t hink that the Latin words “ H o n o r e t F i d e l itas” is more appropriate b e c a u s e i t d o e s n’t go either Spanish or English. I t ’ s a language of its own, and will a l s o m a k e p e o p l e think and find out what does that mean. I r e a l ly love to see my language s p o k e n , I t h i n k it is more important for (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 50 f u t u r e g e n e r a t i ons to also be exposed to Latin as a language. I n t e r ms of the Maltese Cross, I i n c l u d e d a c o p y of the actual design by the U n i t e d S t a t e s A rmy, the official design, so t h e r e i s n o m i s take, no artistic mistake about w h e r e d o w e g e t that, and that’s already vetted. I t c a m e from military history and N a t i o n a l G u a r d Bureau. W e h a v e done all that work, all that vetting process. I totally agree with you. T h i s i s a s t o r y that has yet to be told and h a s n e v e r b e e n told. Sometimes it has been t o l d i n c o r r e c t l y. T h i s i s a time to do it correctly for f u t u r e g e n e r a t i ons so each little young man or g i r l t h a t g o e s into the Naval Academy or the I n f a n t r y A c a d e m y will have one of those coins i n t h e i r p o c k e t s. I guarantee you, if they a r e g o i n g i n t o an Infantry school and they are H i s p a n i c , t h e y are going to know about the 6 5 t h , a n d I w a n t all the students that get (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 51 c o m m i s s i o n e d t o learn about our history and to c a r r y t h e s e m e d als in their pockets as a badge o f h o n o r a n d h e ritage. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you very much. F o r t h e g e n t l e m an on the phone, please. M R . C O LON: This is Jose Colon. a g r e e w i t h t h o s e ideas. I do We have to go back to t h e h i s t o r y o f the 65th Infantry, and that is w h y I b e l i e v e t he Maltese Cross should be i n c l u d e d o n t h e medal. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you, sir. Is t h e r e a n y o n e e l se? M R . M E DINA: This is Frank Medina, N a t i o n a l C h a i r of the Borinqueneers C o n g r e s s i o n a l G old Medal Alliance. real brief. I will be F i rst, I appreciate the CCAC for h a v i n g t h i s f o r um for everybody to partake. I d i d have a couple of points of c l a r i f i c a t i o n h ere. Number one, the highest m i l i t a r y a c h i e v ement for the 65th was the epic w i t h d r a w a l o f t he Chosin Reservoir. A l s o , a point of clarification for th e (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 52 crossed rifles. Army. I’m a former Captain in the D u r i n g t he Korean War, the 65th was p a r t o f t h e r e g imental combat team, in other w o r d s , i t w a s n ’ t just the Infantry that the 6 5 t h w a s c o m p o s ed of. There were medics from t h e 6 5 t h , t h e r e were electricians, truck d r i v e r s , c o m m u n icators, technicians. I think t h e c r o s s e d r i f les needs to be debated. G o i n g back on the Navajo and Native A m e r i c a n C G M s , they all had their native l a n g u a g e o r s o m e sort of citation inscribed in their designs. I t h i n k this is very important. I e c h o t h e r e c o m m endation of including some w o r d s i n S p a n i s h. It doesn’t have to be a lot b u t I t h i n k d e f initely some. I h e a v ily recommend having a portrait o f t h e m o s t n o t able or one of the most notable Borinqueneers. I know he mentioned Modesto C a r t a g e n a , t h e most decorated Puerto Rican s o l d i e r , a n d J u an Negron, the first Medal of H o n o r f o r a B o r inqueneer. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 53 I t h i n k we would be remiss if we d i d n ’ t m e n t i o n General Richard Cavazos. G e n e r a l R i c h a r d Cavazos was the first Latino A r m y F o u r S t a r General. one Hispanic. descent. I think he’s the only He is of Mexican/American I f w e are going to portray the 65th w a s n o t t o t a l l y homogeneous, I think we should c o n s i d e r e n g r a v ing General Richard Carvazos p o r t r a i t , b e i n g the only Latino Four Star General. T h e r e have only been two or three F o u r S t a r H i s p a nic Officers period, two in the N a v y a n d o n e i n the Army. I w o u l d not dismiss the Puerto Rican flag. T h i s i s from my survey of 90 plus Borinqueneers. Last, one recurrent theme when I w a s d o i n g t h e surveys, I saw a recurring p a t t e r n o f t h e 3rd ID patch. That suggestion w a s v e r y f r e q u e nt, and also the profile, P u e r t o R i c o i s 100x35. The 3rd ID patch b e c a u s e t h e 3 r d Infantry Division was a parent o r g a n i z a t i o n o f the 65th, and that patch r e s o n a t e s w i t h the Borinqueneers. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 54 T h a t i s all I have. I appreciate the e f f o r t s o f S a m Rodriguez and Javier Morales in c a r r y i n g t h e t o rch in this journey, and the CCAC. I l o o k f orward to participating in the future. C H A I R M AN MARKS: M R . M O RALES: Thank you, sir. This is Javier Morales f r o m t h e I s l a n d of Puerto Rico. I have to a g r e e w i t h a l o t that was said here, but we h a v e t o r e m e m b e r as Frank Medina just m e n t i o n e d , t h e Island of Puerto Rico is like 100x35. T h i s i s the birthplace of the 65th I n f a n t r y R e g i m e nt. This is where the B o r i n q u e n e e r s c ame out of. T o m a k e a great change in the history o f t h e A m e r i c a n Armed Forces, the wars in the U n i t e d S t a t e s , I think we have to keep that in m i n d , f r o m a s m all island, such a great r e g i m e n t c a m e o ut that changed the history of t h e U n i t e d S t a t es. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you, sir. t h i s p o i n t , w e have reached the end of our (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 At Capital Reporting Company 55 t i m e a l l o t t e d f or our discussion. I want to t h a n k a l l o f t h e stakeholders who have c o n t r i b u t e d , b o th on the phone and here in the room. I w a n t t o thank the staff for your s u p p o r t a n d p r e paring the committee for the d i s c u s s i o n , a n d I want to thank the committee members. B e f o r e I close out completely, I want t o r e c o g n i z e M a ry Lannin because I know she h a s o n e f i n a l c omment that she would like to provide to us. M S . L A NNIN: I really liked Bob’s c o m m e n t a b o u t a dding Spanish to this coin. As a f o u r y e a r L a t in student, I appreciate the L a t i n a s a m o t t o. Just an idea, what if b e c a u s e o f t h e changing demographics you had e n c i r c l i n g t h e reverse English, Spanish and L a t i n , t h e p h r a ses, just encircling it, “Honor a n d F i d e l i t y a , ” “Honor et Fidelitas,” “Honor and Fidelity.” Y o u c a n put whatever art you want in the middle. I t kind of satisfies Bob, which I (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 56 t h i n k i s a g r e a t idea, of adding Spanish. C H A I R M AN MARKS: g r e a t i d e a , t o o , Mary. g r e a t c o n t r i b u t ion. I think you have a Thank you. That is a I see that our legal c o u n s e l w o u l d l ike to contribute something. A f t e r t h a t , j u s t to let everyone know, I’m g o i n g t o t a k e a quick break before we r e c o n v e n e f o r o ur next program discussion. Greg? M R . W E INMAN: Just a quick c l a r i f i c a t i o n o n a couple of things. First, o n c e a g a i n , t h e actual legislation for this p a r t i c u l a r C o n g ressional Gold Medal is the a w a r d o n b e h a l f of Congress, a single gold m e d a l w i t h t h e appropriate design, in honor of t h e 6 5 t h I n f a n t ry Regiment known as the Borinqueneers. That is the subject of what is being honored. A l s o , there was a comment about individuals. A s the committee knows, we tend n o t t o f e a t u r e actual individuals on a medal o f t h i s n a t u r e because the medal is in fact (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 57 h o n o r i n g t h e e n tire organization. If you put a c t u a l h i s t o r i c al individuals on the medal, y o u a r e i n f a c t honoring them as opposed to t h e r e g i m e n t a s a whole. That has been our t r a d i t i o n a n d o ur practice to do that. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Okay. W i t h t h a t , w e a re in recess. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. ( B r i e f recess.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: record. We are back on the J u s t a note to the committee members a n d t h e s t a f f , we had an administrative m e e t i n g t h i s m o rning. We weren’t able to a c c o m p l i s h a l l that we needed to talk about, s o a s w e b r e a k at the noon hour for lunch, we w i l l c o n v e n e u p stairs to cover those last p o i n t s t h a t w e weren’t able to earlier this morning. J u s t a note to members, when we r e c e s s f o r l u n c h, let’s head upstairs for some m o r e a d m i n i s t r a tive business. A t t h i s point, we are going to start o u r d i s c u s s i o n on the designs for the 2015 (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 58 G o l d L i b e r t y C o in and Silver Medal. The first o r d e r o f b u s i n e ss will be to recognize April for her report. April? R E V I E W A N D D I S CUSSION OF CANDIDATE DESIGNS FOR T H E 2 0 1 5 H I G H RELIEF 24K GOLD AND SILVER MEDAL M S . S T AFFORD: Chairman. Thank you, Mr. A s a result of the success of the 2 0 0 9 U l t r a H i g h Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin, t h e U n i t e d S t a t es Mint will produce a 2015 24K H i g h R e l i e f G o l d Coin featuring a new modern r e n d i t i o n o f L i berty on the obverse and a m o d e r n r e n d i t i o n of an American Eagle on the reverse. T o m a k e this design accessible to mor e c o l l e c t o r s , t h e Mint will also produce a medal s t r u c k i n S i l v e r bearing the same design as t h e 2 0 1 5 2 4 K H i gh Relief Coin. L e t m e go to the specifications. r e s e a r c h a n d d e velopment is ongoing. The However, t h e d i a m e t e r o f the Gold Coin is expected to b e a p p r o x i m a t e l y that of the Half Dollar, and t h e d i a m e t e r o f the Silver Medal is expected (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 59 t o b e t h a t o f a small Bronze Medal or the A m e r i c a n E a g l e Silver Bullion Coin. T h o s e specifications for the Gold Coi n a r e 1 . 1 8 6 i n c h e s and about 30.1 millimeters, a n d t h e S i l v e r Medal would be between 1.420 i n c h e s a n d 1 . 5 9 8 inches or 36.1 millimeters to 4 0 . 6 m i l l i m e t e r s. I n o r d er to maximize the coin’s p o t e n t i a l h e i g h t of relief, please consider the following: if a preferred design is w e i g h t e d t o o n e side of the composition, it w i l l p a i r w e l l with one that is weighted on t h e o p p o s i t e s i de. Similarly, horizontally o r i e n t e d d e s i g n s will pair well with v e r t i c a l l y o r i e nted designs on the other side. D e s i g n s that will lend themselves to t a k i n g f u l l a d v antage of the highest relief a v a i l a b l e w i l l tend to feature elements that a r e c e n t r a l l y l ocated. Their borders will t e r m i n a t e a w a y from the center of the palette. O n t h e o t h e r h a nd, designs that use primary e l e m e n t s t h a t a re narrow or contain small gaps (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 60 o f n e g a t i v e s p a ce will likely cause l i m i t a t i o n s i n relief height. T h e C o mmission of Fine Arts met last T h u r s d a y a n d r e commended two obverse designs a n d t w o r e v e r s e designs. They are obverses 11 a n d 3 a n d r e v e r ses 1 and 10. T o d a y , we have 25 obverse designs for y o u r c o n s i d e r a t ion. For the obverse designs, r e q u i r e d i n s c r i ptions for the Gold Coin are “ L i b e r t y , ” “ I n God We Trust,” and “2015.” The c o r r e s p o n d i n g S ilver Medal obverse requires t h e i n s c r i p t i o n “2015” with the optional i n s c r i p t i o n o f “Liberty.” D e s i g n s are presented in both their G o l d C o i n a n d S ilver Medal versions side by side. F i r s t , we will start with obverses 1 t h r o u g h 4 , w h i c h depict a close up view of Liberty. H e r e we have obverse 1, 2, 3, again, a p r e f e r e n c e o f the CFA, and 4. O b v e r s es 5 and 6 show Liberty with p a l m f r o n d s s y m bolizing victory and peace. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 61 H e r e i s o b v e r s e 5 and 6. O b v e r s es 7 and 8 present Liberty l o o k i n g c o n f i d e ntly to the future while a c c o m p a n i e d b y an olive branch and a torch or an Eagle. H e r e is obverse 7 and 8. O b v e r s es 9 and 10 show Liberty in p r o f i l e a c c o m p a nied by symbols of prosperity, s t r e n g t h a n d p e ace or 50 stars, a shield, and olive branches. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit o f H a p p i n e s s a r e represented in both obverses w i t h e i t h e r t h r ee flickers of a flame or three beams of light. The artists also included s k y s c r a p e r s a s a 21st Century symbol of a free m o d e r n s o c i e t y success. Here is obverse 9 and 10. O b v e r s es 11 and 12 portray Liberty s t a n d i n g , c r o w n ed with leaves holding the A m e r i c a n F l a g a nd either a torch or a sword. H e r e i s o b v e r s e 11, a CFA preference, and 12. O b v e r s e 13 depicts Liberty looking o v e r h e r s h o u l d er as if in remembrance of all t h e s a c r i f i c e s made in her name. Liberty is (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 62 e n c i r c l e d b y 1 3 stars. O b v e r s e 14 presents Liberty dressed i n a r m o r w i t h a d d i tional elements inspired by T h o m a s C r a w f o r d ’s Statue of Freedom, which s t a n d s u p o n t h e dome of the U.S. Capitol. A s h a w l h a n g s o v e r her shoulder while she holds a s w o r d , w r e a t h , and shield. O b v e r s es 15 through 18 depict Liberty a s s h e l e a d s a youth, emblematic of future generations. O bverses 15, 16, and 17 set the f i g u r e s i n f r o n t of a globe or sun and i n c o r p o r a t e 1 3 stars. Obverse 18 incorporates a n a d d i t i o n a l s even stars symbolic of the s e v e n c o n t i n e n t s, a reference to the global i m p a c t o f A m e r i can liberty. There is obverse 1 5 , 1 6 , 1 7 , a n d 18. O b v e r s e 19 features Liberty carrying a t o r c h a n d a b o u quet of oak and olive. The b a c k g r o u n d f e a t ures the sun and a view of the U.S. Capitol. O b v e r s es 20 through 22 depict Liberty h o l d i n g a t o r c h or lamp accompanied by a sword (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 63 a n d s h i e l d o r o ak and olive branches. In the b a c k g r o u n d , t h e rising sun symbolizes the b e g i n n i n g o f a new era. Here is obverse 20, 2 1 , a n d 2 2 , w h i ch also incorporates 13 stars. O b v e r s es 23, 24, and 25 are a l t e r n a t i v e v e r sions to obverses 20, 21, and 22 respectively. These designs depict Liberty w i t h w i n g s , a n artist’s endeavor to symbolize victory. T h o s e are the obverse designs. Would y o u c a r e f o r m e to go on to the reverse designs? C H A I R M AN MARKS: Please proceed to th e reverses. M S . S T AFFORD: d e s i g n s f o r r e v iew. We have 16 reverse Required inscriptions for t h e G o l d C o i n a re “United States of America,” “ E P l u r i b u s U n u m,” “One ounce,” “0.9999 fine g o l d , ” a n d w h i l e the final denomination has y e t t o b e d e c i d ed, we have used $75 as a p l a c e h o l d e r f o r the denomination. The c o r r e s p o n d i n g S ilver Medal reverse may (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 64 o p t i o n a l l y d e p i ct the inscription “United S t a t e s o f A m e r i ca.” Designs are again p r e s e n t e d i n b o th Gold Coin and Silver Medal formats. H e r e w e have reverse one. This was a g a i n a C F A p r e ference, one of the CFA reverse preferences. 5, and 6. R everse 2, reverse 3, reverse 4, A l l of these feature an Eagle in f l i g h t , s o m e c a rrying objects such as olive or o a k b r a n c h e s a n d arrows. R e v e r s es 7 through 13 portray Eagles g r a s p i n g o b j e c t s such as olive or oak b r a n c h e s , a r r o w s, shields, and fasces. Here w e h a v e r e v e r s e 7, 8, 9, 10, this was also a C F A p r e f e r e n c e , 11, 12, and 13. R e v e r s es 14 through 16 depict a close u p v i e w o f a n E agle. Here is reverse 14, w h i c h i n c o r p o r a tes different oak leaves, 15, a n d 1 6 , w h i c h s ets a realistic Eagle in front o f a s t y l i z e d w ing. T h a t c oncludes the designs, Mr. Chairman. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 65 C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you, April. B a c k o n S e p t e m b er 24, this committee went on r e c o r d w h e n i t adopted its resolution calling f o r a n a n n u a l A rts Medal Program. In that r e s o l u t i o n , w e recommended a series of Liberty M e d a l s t h a t w o u ld be struck on an annual basis and dated. T h i s i s a concept that this committee a n d m e m b e r s o f this committee have worked to h a v e t h e o p p o r t unity to be a part of for some time, years. I know I speak for the committee w h e n I s a y t h a t we view this as a special m o m e n t f o r u s a s a committee, certainly for t h e U n i t e d S t a t es Mint because we see this p r o g r a m - - I t h ink the word “blockbuster” has b e e n u s e d - - w e see this as a blockbuster p r o g r a m f o r t h e Mint. W e s e e it as a platform for going f o r w a r d a n d e x p loring new and exciting designs t h a t i l l u s t r a t e some of the core values of our n a t i o n , L i b e r t y being the chief vehicle i c o n i c a l l y f o r American coins and medals. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 66 I n 1 9 4 7, Liberty walked off our c i r c u l a t i n g c o i nage for good when the walking L i b e r t y h a l f d o llar was replaced by the F r a n k l i n h a l f d ollar. Since that time, c o l l e c t o r s l i k e myself and others on this c o m m i t t e e , m y s e lf having been a collector for 4 0 p l u s y e a r s n ow, we have wanted, desired, h o p e d f o r a p r o gram that would give us an o p p o r t u n i t y i n our generation to experience m o d e r n r e n d i t i o ns of Liberty that would c a p t u r e t h e t r u e essence of our nation today w i t h a l l o f i t s multiplicity of ethnic h e r i t a g e s , v a l u es, and aspirations. W e s e e this as a very special moment. I t i s s o m e t h i n g that we all take very seriously. I k now at the present the Mint s e e s t h i s a s a one year program. We, of c o u r s e , a r e o n record with our resolution from S e p t e m b e r c a l l i ng for this very thing to be an annual program. In a little bit we are going t o h a v e s o m e m o tions to further clarify this c o m m i t t e e ’ s r e c ommendations to the Mint on a (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 67 n u m b e r o f i s s u e s, one of those issues will be that idea. I w a n t to walk us back, just a little b i t o f c h r o n o l o gy. f a r i n t o t h e w e eds. I don’t want to get too If you look at the CCAC’s a n n u a l r e p o r t s for the past few years, we have h a d t h i s i d e a o f an Arts Medal Program. Along a b o u t M a r c h , a t our March meeting, I announced w i t h a d e s i r e m yself to try to push that idea f o r w a r d t h a t w e would have a special meeting i n A p r i l f o r t h e committee to look at a p o s s i b l e c h a n g e to the reverse of the American S i l v e r E a g l e , s eeing this as an opportunity to r e f r e s h a n d b r i ng some new ideas in design to t h e f l a g s h i p c o in for the United States Mint. W e w e n t on record in fact with a s p e c i f i c d e s i g n that we thought would be very d e s i r o u s f o r c o llectors and recommended it. T h r o u g h a s e r i e s of developments along the w a y , w e w e r e v e ry fortunate that we had an a p p r o v a l f r o m t he Deputy Secretary for a p r o g r a m t h a t o n e, completed as a bookend the (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 68 G o l d C o i n i d e a that was started under Director M o y , w h e r e h e h ad revisited the Saint Gaudens d o u b l e E a g l e f r om 1907, something that the M i n t h a d n o t b e en able to accomplish at that t i m e b e c a u s e o f its high relief. A t t h e time, Director Moy suggested o n c e t h a t w a s a ccomplished, the Mint needed to d o a n o t h e r o n e that would encompass a modern d e s i g n a n d s h o w Liberty in a new and unique w a y f o r o u r t i m e. I s e e first of all this is an o p p o r t u n i t y t o complete that vision, and I t h i n k i t ’ s a n i mportant one. Sometimes I t h i n k w e s p e n d too much time reveling in the w o n d e r f u l d e s i g ns of the past, but I think we h a v e a l o t t o s ay in our generation about l i b e r t y a n d o t h er values that make us Americans. A s w e realized we had an approval from t h e D e p u t y S e c r etary, we also came to u n d e r s t a n d t h a t for the Silver Medal, what was b e i n g b r o u g h t f orward to us was the high (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 69 relief medal. Everything to that point from t h e c o m m i t t e e ’ s recommendations had i n c o r p o r a t e d a n d it was in the context of u s i n g t h e 4 0 . 6 millimeter planchet of the One D o l l a r A m e r i c a n Silver Eagle Coin. T h a t w as something I know by and larg e t h e m e m b e r s b e c ame concerned with. We have f e l t s t r o n g l y t hat planchet for the American S i l v e r E a g l e w o uld be the appropriate one. I b r o u g h t a l o n g w ith me today an American Silver E a g l e p r o o f t h a t I passed around to the c o m m i t t e e e a r l i er that really kind of i l l u s t r a t e s h o w beautiful that coin is, and p a r t o f t h e r e a son is because of what I call the “eye blast.” It’s large enough that it l e t s t h e e y e e n joy the fullness of the design t h a t i s p r e s e n t ed on its surface. In the c o n t r a s t b e t w e e n the polish and the frost, it i s j u s t s o s t u n ning. It has relief. It has a d e q u a t e r e l i e f to make this coin beautiful. I t i s beautiful. There are 750,000 c o l l e c t o r s o r a t least examples of this coin (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 70 p l u s s o l d e v e r y year by the United States Mint. T h e c o l l ector base, the customer base o f t h e M i n t h a s weighed in heavily that this A m e r i c a n S i l v e r Eagle is something that they f i n d v e r y a t t r a ctive. P a r t o f that is the design itself. A n o t h e r p a r t o f it is the size of the planchet. L i k e I said, it allows that eye blast to occur. R e a l i z ing the Mint was looking at a s m a l l e r p l a n c h e t in high relief and not really u n d e r s t a n d i n g a ll the in’s and out’s of that, I t h o u g h t i t w o uld be helpful for the c o m m i t t e e t o h a ve a subcommittee that would be a b l e t o i n t e r a c t with the staff and kind of l o o k i n t o t h e i ssues involved and see what it m i g h t b e a l l a b out. I a p p o inted Mike Moran, Erik Jansen a n d m y s e l f t o t hat task, did that while we w e r e a l l h e r e a t our Nation’s Capital back in October. S i n c e then, your subcommittee has i n t e r a c t e d w i t h the staff. We have asked (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 71 questions. W e have had discussions. We are c o m i n g b a c k t o you today with a request that w e f u r t h e r c l a r ify some recommendations that w e h a v e m a d e i n the past but also add to that s p e c i f i c t o t h i s medal program. I t h i n k at this point I will just go a h e a d a n d s t a r t working through some of those motions. T h e r e are six of them. The first one i s b a s i c a l l y t o reaffirm our recommendation a n d o u r s t r o n g desire that this Silver Medal b e p r e s e n t e d o n the 40.6 millimeter planchet. M O T I O N C H A I R M AN MARKS: the motion. I am going to make T h e motion is to recommend the M i n t u s e a 4 0 . 6 millimeter standard diameter p l a n c h e t f o r t h e Silver Medal in order to b a l a n c e m a x i m i z ation of the palette for eye a p p e a l w i t h a r equirement for an one ounce Silver content. Do I have a second for that motion? M R . J A NSEN: Second. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 72 C H A I R M AN MARKS: Moved and seconded. I s t h e r e d i s c u s sion about this motion? I will t e l l y o u t h i s , a subsequent motion coming r i g h t a f t e r t h i s that is going to address the i s s u e o f m a x i m i zing relief. That is really n o t o n t h e t a b l e here with this motion. Is t h e r e d i s c u s s i o n about the fact of our r e c o m m e n d a t i o n to use the 40.6 millimeter planchet? M R . J A NSEN: I weighed in with a s e c o n d , s o I ’ l l put some thoughts out there. T o m e , t h i s i s really a two faceted d i s c u s s i o n , w i t h all due respect to the third, w h i c h i s a p r o d uction issue. T h e t w o primary impulses I feel here i s w h e n i t c o m e s to beautiful art on a proof p l a n c h e t p a l e t t e, bigger is much, much, much better. W h e n y ou look back at the history of t h i s c o u n t r y , S ilver Dollars, whereas they d i d n ’ t c i r c u l a t e highly, extraordinary demand b e c a u s e o f t h e size, the iconic content, one o f t h e m o s t c o l lected coins there is. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 73 T h e S i lver Eagle I think appeals to a f i n a n c i a l c o m m u nity in the larger bulk of production. I think as an artistic piece, i t ’ s a n i n c r e m e nt to that market and not one t h a t w o u l d c a n n ibalize it. T h e f i rst reason I would go to a l a r g e r p l a n c h e t , quite frankly, it’s a standard size. Economically, it fits into the p r o c u r e m e n t , t o oling, handling, the packaging t h a t t h e M i n t a lready has in place, and with a l l d u e r e s p e c t to cost, that is an important issue here. B i gger is better. T h e s e cond reason is the fact it is a proven issue. Collectors have -- the second p o i n t i s r e a l l y the mind of the collector to m e , a n d I a m a collector, I’ve been a c o l l e c t o r f o r a lmost 50 of my years. a funny thing. We have We like to complete the series. W h e n i t comes to whether it is making c o l l e c t o r s h a p p y or providing a product we k n o w c o l l e c t o r s will appreciate, creating an (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 74 e x t e n s i o n t o a n existing proven market I think i s r e a l l y i m p o r tant. A n y t h i ng other than the diameter of t h e h i s t o r i c m e dals this Mint has struck, a n y t h i n g d i f f e r ent than the Silver Eagle I t h i n k i s p r o b a b ly a risk, a mistake. H o n e s t l y , d e n y i ng a clear opportunity. T h e t h ird that I want to show respect t o i s t h e e x p e r ience, the tooling, the cost t h a t t h e M i n t a lready has in place. Whereas, h i g h r e l i e f , w h ich I think is a necessary f e a t u r e o f t h i s product offering, is really i m p o r t a n t , I w o uld challenge the Mint and its t e c h n o l o g i s t s t o experiment a little bit and f i n d o u t - - w e know we can do ultra high r e l i e f o n a 2 7 millimeter Gold planchet. p r o v e d t h a t i n 2009. We I’d like to know how far w e c a n s t r e t c h here to really put just an a b s o l u t e l y c o m p elling eye blast -- I like that t e r m , t h a n k s , G ary -- out there in terms of new relief. I t h i n k our numismatic collectors out (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 75 t h e r e , t h o s e t h at already buy from us and t h o s e t h a t w i l l represent new customer o p p o r t u n i t i e s t o the Mint, they see high r e l i e f , t h e y s e e eye blast, and they will say wow. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Are there any other c o m m e n t s o n t h e motion? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: question. I’ll call for the A l l those in favor, please raise your hand. ( S h o w of hands.) D R . B U GEJA: Aye. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you, Michael. W e h a v e a n u n a n imous vote, 10- 0. M O T I O N C H A I R M AN MARKS: The next motion is t o r e c o m m e n d t h e r elief of the Silver Medal be m a x i m i z e d t o t h e fullest possible extent and i n e x c e s s o f t h e relief established for the o b v e r s e o f t h e One Dollar American Silver Eagle. D o I h a ve a second? (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 76 M R . M O RAN: Second. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Moved and seconded. T h i s m o t i o n w i l l be something that the Mint c a n , I t h i n k , w ork with and work towards, d e p e n d i n g o n t h e design we pick subsequently. I f w e c a n p i c k a design where the medal flow i s m i n i m i z e d a n d a deeper dish can therefore b e e s t a b l i s h e d , then maybe there is at least s o m e i n c r e m e n t a l depth that can be gained out of a design. I f w e pick a design where the raised e l e m e n t s a r e b r oader across the landscape of t h e p a l e t t e , t h at is going to be more difficult. K e e p that in mind. W e d o have the motion on the table b a s i c a l l y s a y i n g that we want the Mint’s t e c h n i c a l a n d d ie making people, that we know a r e v e r y g o o d a t what they do, we have seen s o m e o f t h e w o r k here in very recent years, w h i c h i s j u s t a mazing -- we’d like to throw d o w n t h e c h a l l e nge to them, a positive c h a l l e n g e , t o s ay take whatever design we have (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 77 h e r e a n d l e t ’ s see what we can do on the 40.6 m i l l i m e t e r p l a n chet. A 4 0 . 6 millimeter planchet in our v i s i o n w o u l d b e the guiding limitation for you. L e t ’ s s e e what you can do at that size a s f a r a s r e l i e f. T h a t i s kind of the background and i n t e n t o f t h i s motion. Are there any other c o m m e n t s o n t h a t point? M S . S T AFFORD: I believe you said to b e m a x i m i z e d t o be greater than the American Eagle. C o u l d y ou just read it one more time? C H A I R M AN MARKS: Yes. The motion is t o r e c o m m e n d t h e relief of the Silver Medal be m a x i m i z e d t o t h e fullest possible extent and i n e x c e s s o f t h e relief established for the o b v e r s e o f t h e One Dollar American Silver Eagle. M R . J A NSEN: I was on the committee a s w e w o r k e d t h r o u gh these issues. I’m actually g l a d y o u a s k e d that question, April, because w e c o u l d g o t h r ough numbers and all kinds of (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 78 w a y s o f e s t a b l i shing what is the definition of “ h i g h r e l i e f ” o r “ultra high relief,” but I t h i n k w h e r e t h e rubber meets the road is what m a k e s c o l l e c t o r s notice. T h e h i gh volume standard we all know i s t h e A m e r i c a n Eagle. I think to do better t h a n t h a t i s t o make this product offering d i s t i n c t i v e , i n cremental, and memorable. C H A I R M AN MARKS: quickly. I’ll just add to tha t A g a i n , I mentioned there are three- q u a r t e r s o f a m illion examples a year at least w i t h t h i s p l a n c het with the relief that it has t h a t s a y s s u c c e ss. A n a n a logy here. If you have a f o o t b a l l t e a m a nd you have a star quarterback, y o u d o n ’ t p u t t he unknown third string q u a r t e r b a c k i n in the big game. W e h a v e come so far here at the U.S. M i n t , a n d t h e t eam we have on board has done s u c h w o n d e r f u l things, I think this is doable. I t h i n k i t i s d oable. I’d like to have them s h o w u s h o w t h e y can do it. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 79 W i t h t hat, I’m going to call the q u e s t i o n f o r t h e recommendation that the r e l i e f o f t h e S ilver Medal be maximized to the f u l l e s t p o s s i b l e extent and in excess of the r e l i e f e s t a b l i s hed for the obverse of the One D o l l a r A m e r i c a n Silver Eagle. A l l t h ose in favor, please raise your hand. D R . B U GEJA: Aye. ( S h o w of hands.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you, Michael. Unanimous. M O T I O N C H A I R M AN MARKS: novel one. The next motion is a Y o u will notice on the artwork t h a t w e h a v e i n front of us today, on the r e v e r s e s , y o u s ee the denomination of $75. T h a t w a s p u t t h ere as a placeholder for lack o f a b e t t e r r e a son why. It is something I t h i n k s t i l l n e e ds to be established, exactly w h a t t h e d e n o m i nation will be. A s o u r subcommittee was in (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 80 d i s c u s s i o n s , t h is was somewhere in T h a n k s g i v i n g t i me, Erik, Mike and I were t a l k i n g a b o u t t he issues related to the Silver M e d a l a n d t h e G old Coin. In that discussion o f t h e G o l d C o i n, Mike Moran brought up the i d e a o f u s i n g t he historic denomination for $100. T h e r e i s a historic American d e n o m i n a t i o n f o r that. It’s never been used. I t w a s a t t e m p t e d or looked at in the 1870s w i t h s o m e t h i n g they called a “Half Union.” Y o u a r e familiar with the Eagle. E a g l e i s a $ 1 0 Coin. An That is where we get our H a l f E a g l e , o u r Quarter Eagle, Double Eagle. A $ 5 0 C o i n i n t hat realm historically would be a “Half Union.” T h a t m eans a $100 denomination is s o m e t h i n g c a l l e d “One Union.” If you think a b o u t t h e i m p l i cations of those two simple w o r d s t o t h e A m erican experience, “One Union.” W e t h i nk as a committee, and we have h a d a l o t o f d i scussions about this i n t e r n a l l y , e s p ecially among the subcommittee, (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 81 t h a t t h i s w o u l d give an extra punch, if you w i l l , o f e x c i t e ment to the collecting c o m m u n i t y , e s p e cially those of us who are y e a r s i n t o o u r hobby, who have studied n u m i s m a t i c s e x t ensively. We know about this d e s i g n a t i o n o f “One Union.” I t i s one of those ideas in n u m i s m a t i c s t h a t carries with it a lot of a l l u r e , s o m e t h i ng that is very attractive, but h a s a l w a y s b e e n elusive. It’s just something t h a t h a s n ’ t b e e n done. W e h a v e had other $100 denominations, b u t n e v e r h a s t he U.S. Mint called it “One Union.” W h a t w e are proposing here with this n e x t m o t i o n i s that we take the words “One U n i o n ” f o l l o w e d by the numeric representation o f “ $ 1 0 0 , ” a n d that be used for the Gold Coin i n t h i s p r o g r a m , “One Union.” M y m o t ion is to recommend that the G o l d C o i n a n d t he Liberty series utilize the d e n o m i n a t i o n “ O ne Union” historically e n v i s i o n e d t o r epresent $100 on United States (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 82 coinage. D o I h ave a second? M R . M O RAN: Second. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Is there discussion? Mike? M R . M O RAN: I can’t tell you when I w r o t e t h a t e -m a il how excited I was as I wrote i t o f t h e w h o l e concept of going back to an U n i o n a n d H a l f Union, although we will stay w i t h t h e U n i o n here. I t i s tied back to the heritage, our n u m i s m a t i c h e r i tage at the Mint. While these c o i n s n e v e r b e c ame a reality, the patterns w e r e s t r u c k a t the Mint in anticipation of legislation. T hey are rare, rare, rare pieces t o d a y , o n e t h a t we will never own. A t t h e same time it stimulates your i m a g i n a t i o n a s to what an Union would be like, a n d t o c o m e b a c k and resurrect this concept a n d p u t i t o u t there and make it available to t h e c o l l e c t i n g base, I think would be a marketing coup. I think it will be received (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 83 w i t h i n t h e c o l l ecting base, and hopefully b e y o n d t h e c o l l ecting base. I t h i n k it is an element of surprise, s o t o s p e a k , t h at adds to the allure of this p r o g r a m , a n d I ’ m all for it. C H A I R M AN MARKS: comment on this? Others who want to This is your moment. M S . L A NNIN: I’d like to put in my order. C H A I R M AN MARKS: That is the kind of c o m m e n t I w a n t to hear. M R . M O RAN: Do you want a certified first issue? M S . L A NNIN: Sure. C H A I R M AN MARKS: M R . H O GE: Anyone else? Robert ? I agree, this is really an e x t r a o r d i n a r y o pportunity. The Union, this e x t r e m e r a r i t y from the 1870s, is something t h a t i s l e g e n d a ry and almost every collector o f A m e r i c a n c o i nage has heard of this somewhere. I t ’ s in their consciousness. T h i s i s an opportunity to relate to (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 84 t h a t h i s t o r y , t o think back to those times w h e n t h e U n i t e d States was in fact making an e f f o r t t h r o u g h this denomination and the p a t t e r n i d e a s o f the 1870s to coordinate our c o i n a g e w i t h t h at of the entire world. S i n c e the American Dollar really is t h e b a s k e t c u r r ency of the world, this is r e a l l y k i n d o f an interesting gesture, s o m e t h i n g t h a t may actually take off in p o p u l a r i t y i n t e rnationally. C H A I R M AN MARKS: w i l l g o t o t h e question. Thank you, Robert. I All those in favor o f t h e m o t i o n t o use “One Union” as the d e n o m i n a t i o n f o r the Gold Coin -- I’m going too fast here. I d i d ask our legal counsel to look a t t h i s i s s u e b e c a use I knew there would be q u e s t i o n s a b o u t it. I would recognize Greg n o w f o r h i s c o m ments. M R . W E INMAN: of things. Just quickly, a couple F i r st, I want to clarify that of c o u r s e , t h e r e n ever were Unions, at least not (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 85 l e g a l l y c i r c u l a ting. It was in 1870 that l e g i s l a t i o n w a s proposed. G o i n g back to just a little bit of l e g i s l a t i v e h i s tory, the original Coinage Act b a c k i n t h e 1 7 0 0s authorized Gold Coins up to a H a l f E a g l e , a half ounce. Later on, the One D o l l a r G o l d C o i n and the Double Eagle were a u t h o r i z e d i n t he 1840s, and then the l e g i s l a t i o n w a s posed in 1870. I d o n ’ t know the legislative history, b u t i t w a s p r o p osed and made it to the Senate. I t d i e d i n t h e House. At that point, a Half E a g l e w a s g o i n g to be a 2.5 ounce Gold Coin, a F u l l E a g l e w a s going to be a 5 ounce Gold Coin. T h i s w o u ld go along with the one ounce Double Eagle. A s f a r as where the term “Union” come s f r o m , I l o o k e d at the legislation. There is n o t h i n g i n t h e legislation specifically that defines “Union.” history there. There may be some other I don’t know if it was related t o t h e C i v i l W a r, it was obviously post- Civil (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 86 W a r w h e n t h i s c ame up. J u s t t o clarify, there never actually w a s a l e g a l l y c irculating coin called “Half U n i o n ” o r “ U n i o n.” That said, for the here a n d n o w , a s m a n y of you know, the Secretary h a s v e r y b r o a d authority in the current laws w h e n i t c o m e s t o Gold Coins. W h a t e v er was authorized when it comes t o G o l d C o i n s b ack in 1870, those laws have a l l b e e n o v e r c o me by current legislation, w h i c h e s s e n t i a l ly states that the Secretary m a y c o n t i n u e t o mint and issue the coins a s c r i b e d , a n d a t the same time the Secretary i s m i n t i n g a n d issuing other bullion and proof c o i n s i n a c c o r d ance with such coins’ s p e c i f i c a t i o n s , varieties, quantities, and d e n o m i n a t i o n s a s the Secretary in the S e c r e t a r y ’ s d i s cretion may prescribe from t i m e -t o -t i m e . T h a t i s obviously very broad language t h a t w o u l d a u t h orize this. Accordingly, we h a v e n o l e g a l o bjection to establishing a coin (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 87 o f t h i s p a r t i c u lar nominal denomination or w i t h t h a t p a r t i cular inscription. The law would allow it. T h a t s hould clarify what the previous a t t e m p t w a s a n d what the law says today. C H A I R M AN MARKS: a b s o l u t e l y c o r r ect. Right. That is There never has been an a c t u a l c o i n c a r rying that denomination of “One U n i o n , ” a n d t h a t is the point. That is why t h e r e i s s u c h a n allure and that is what makes i t s u c h a d i s t i nct idea that will appeal, I b e l i e v e , v e r y p owerfully, to those of us who c o l l e c t t h e s e s orts of things. T h a n k you, Greg, for enlightening us on all that. question. I ’m going to proceed to the A l l those in favor, please raise your hand. D R . B E GEJA: Aye. ( S h o w of hands.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: v o t e o n t h a t m o tion. We have an unanimous Thank you. T h e n e xt one is actually inspired fro m (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 88 t h e 2 0 1 1 S e p t e m ber 11th National Medal. That w a s a m e d a l t h a t I have right here in my hand. O n e o f t h e g r e a t things about it was the Mint p u t M i n t m a r k s on a medal. F o r t h e collecting community, that is a s i g n i f i c a n t t hing, to have a Mint mark. It i s a c t u a l l y p a r t of the design that many c o l l e c t o r s l o o k for. There are certain Mints t h a t c a r r y m o r e of a numismatic character to w h a t t h e y p r o d u ce, that being West Point and San Francisco. I t w a s the thought of your s u b c o m m i t t e e t h at there would be some extra e x c i t e m e n t a d d e d to the program if we e x p r e s s e d o u r h ope to the Mint and if they w o u l d f o l l o w i t , to put Mint marks on these Silver Medals. It’s not without precedent, as I s a i d , w i t h t h e September 11th Medal. In f a c t , i t c a r r i e d a “W” for West Point. There w a s a l s o a “ P ” for Philadelphia. M O T I O N C H A I R M AN MARKS: With that, my motion (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 89 i s t o r e c o m m e n d the Mint’s two numismatic p r o d u c t i o n f a c i lities, West Point and San F r a n c i s c o , b e u tilized to assure solid supply a n d i n t e r e s t f o r the collecting community. S o l i d s u p p l y g o es to our belief that you are g o i n g t o n e e d t o have a good supply chain for t h i s p r o d u c t , a nd also just the ability from a d e s i g n p o i n t o f view to be able to collect two o f t h e s e b e c a u s e they are different; they are m a d e d i f f e r e n t by two different Mint marks. I t j u s t adds an extra bit of spice to t h e p r o g r a m a n d interest for collectors. This i s s o m e t h i n g t h at I think many collectors w o u l d f i n d v e r y appealing. T h a t i s my motion. D R . V I OLA: Is there a second ? Second. C H A I R M AN MARKS: With that, is there discussion? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: we are on this. I think we know wher e All those in favor, raise your hand. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 90 D R . B U GEJA: Aye. M S . S T AFFORD: Sorry, Mr. Chairman. M a y I a s k , t h e West Point and San Francisco M i n t m a r k , t h a t is for the Silver Medals as w e l l a s t h e G o l d Coins, or are you only t a l k i n g a b o u t t he Silver Medals in terms of Mint marks? M R . J A NSEN: Great question. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Our subcommittee m e m b e r s , c o r r e c t me if I’m wrong, I think our f o c u s h a s b e e n on the Silver Medal. M R . M O RAN: It has, but I don’t see w h y t h e y c a n ’ t do it on both. C H A I R M AN MARKS: If the Mint wanted t o a p p l y t h a t b r o a dly, I’m sure you could. H o n e s t l y , o u r d iscussion was a little more n a r r o w t h a n t h a t. I think that would be a g r e a t m o v e f o r either of the products. M R . M O RAN: Has San Francisco struck Gold recently? C H A I R M AN MARKS: M S . S T AFFORD: I don’t think so. No. That is why I was (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 91 w a n t i n g t o c l a r ify it. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Our focus was on the Silver. M S . S T AFFORD: M R . M O RAN: Thank you. Are there production i s s u e s w i t h S a n Francisco striking Gold Coins in this case? M S . S T AFFORD: Actually, I’m looking t o w a r d s S t a c y K elley and also Steve Antonucci o n t h e l i n e t o answer that. Stacy, do you w a n t t o g o a h e a d and take that first? M S . K E LLEY: Sure. This is not s o m e t h i n g t h a t we would normally do in the San F r a n c i s c o f a c i l ity. It could pose some o p p o r t u n i t i e s t o develop that. Steve, would y o u l i k e t o a d d anything? M R . A N TONUCCI: Silver bullion. San Francisco has don e The high relief is going to p o s e s o m e o t h e r challenges. It would require s o m e f u r t h e r e n gineering development in San Francisco. C H A I R M AN MARKS: I would suggest if (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 92 t h o s e l i m i t a t i o ns were something that could n o t b e o v e r c o m e , then simply putting a “W” on t h e G o l d C o i n w ould still add something of v a l u e t o c o l l e c tors. M R . M O RAN: Gary, I wouldn’t want to o v e r l o o k t h e e n thusiasm of San Francisco s t r i k i n g G o l d a gain in relation to the entire i s s u e o f t h e G o ld Coin. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Okay. Any more d i s c u s s i o n o n t hat? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: All those in favor, p l e a s e r a i s e y o ur hand. D R . B U GEJA: Aye. ( S h o w of hands.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: vote. That is an unanimous T h a n k y o u very much. The next issue, I w i l l b r i n g u s b ack to that September 11th Medal again. I t has been the tradition for l a c k o f a b e t t e r word for the Mint not to add r e e d s t o t h e e d ge of a medal. I t h i n k most of us here at the table (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 93 k n o w t h e r e a r e many private Mints that do m e d a l s t h a t a r e reeded and they are quite popular. I t ’ s another added enhancement to t h e m e d a l , i n t his case. O u r s u ggestion to the Mint is to c o n s i d e r a d d i n g reeds to the Silver Medal for t h i s p r o g r a m , a nd if you look at the September 1 1 t h M e d a l a t t he edge, this is a beautiful m e d a l , l e t m e s ay that first, absolutely g o r g e o u s m e d a l , but one of the very few things t h a t d e t r a c t f r om it, I don’t know what to c a l l t h e m , t h e staff probably has a better w o r d f o r i t , l i ke little lines or cut marks a l l a r o u n d t h e edge, that presents the medal a s a b i t o f u n f inished feel to it. T h e t h ing about the reeds is it d r e s s e s t h a t u p , it creates a little more i n t e r e s t , I t h i nk, and I will even suggest it a d d s t o t h e d e s ign. M O T I O N C H A I R M AN MARKS: With that, the motio n i s t h a t t h e e d g e of the Silver proof medal, (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 94 a n d “ p r o o f ” i s not an accident there, I think t h a t i s t h e d i r ection the Mint is moving in, j u s t t o r e a f f i r m that, the edge of the Silver p r o o f m e d a l b e reeded to give the piece its b e s t p r e s e n t a t i on. I s t h e re a second? M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: C H A I R M AN MARKS: M R . J A NSEN: Second. Is there discussion? Gary, I think what you a r e d e s c r i b i n g are best described as “shear m a r k s , ” w h e n t h e blank is actually cut out of sheet metal. T hey are unavoidable from the s h e a r i n g p r o c e s s. I’m not sure there is a d r e s s i n g t h a t r eally is an alternative to reeding here. I agree with you, I think we a r e t r y i n g t o d ress this up so it has its best presentation. C H A I R M AN MARKS: comments? Yes. Any other H e i d i? M S . W A STWEET: Steven, are you still on the line? M R . A N TONUCCI: I am. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 95 M S . W A STWEET: Do you have any c o m m e n t s a b o u t the lines on the pieces? M R . A N TONUCCI: I’m a little concerne d a b o u t t h o s e i n the production version. I w o u l d c e r t a i n l y like the reeds as well. M S . W A STWEET: Thank you, Steve. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Are there other comments? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: All those in favor, p l e a s e r a i s e y o ur hand. D R . B U GEJA: Aye. ( S h o w of hands.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Unanimous vote. At t h i s p o i n t , I ’ m going to recognize Mike Moran f o r t h e n e x t m o tion and his explanation thereof. M R . M O RAN: I know the Mint is c o n s i d e r i n g t h i s as an one year only program. W e f e e l l i k e t o enhance collector appeal, it’s n e c e s s a r y t o g o beyond an one year one off program. I t h i nk you cut the program off at (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 96 t h e k n e e s w h e n you tell them it’s only one year. T h e r e i s nothing to collect. e i t h e r l i k e i t or they don’t. They They either buy i t o r t h e y d o n ’ t. T h e o t her thing is the key theme of t h i s L i b e r t y M e dal, particularly in Silver, w a s t o e x p l o r e the concept of a modern Liberty. I d o n ’t think you can do that with o n e i m a g e i n o n e year. I think it needs to be a s e r i e s o v e r a number of years in which you a r e a l l o w e d t o develop this theme of the new L i b e r t y , b o t h e thnically and stylistically. M O T I O N M R . M O RAN: Therefore, we are going t o m a k e t h e m o t i o n that the Liberty theme Silver M e d a l b e a n o n g oing series in order to satisfy t h e a n t i c i p a t e d strong reception in the c o l l e c t o r c o m m u nity, and to allow Mint artists t o f u l l y d e v e l o p the multicultural aspects of t h e n e w m o d e r n Liberty. M R . U R AM: That is the motion. Second. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Is there discussion? (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 97 Erik? M R . J A NSEN: I know the CFA reviewed t h e s e d e s i g n s l ast week, and they highlighted, I t h i n k , a r e a l ly important aspect of the m o d e r n L i b e r t y , and that is it is not as s i m p l e a s s i m p l y Lady Liberty. I think there a r e m a n y e l e m e n ts of today’s collecting c o m m u n i t y , t o d a y’s social community, today’s p o l i t i c a l c o m m u nity, who deserve attention t h a t a r e j u s t n ot completely heard or serviced i n a s i n g l e d e s ign or a single year’s snapshot o f w h a t L i b e r t y is in the modern day. O n e o f the challenges I think we are g o i n g t o h a v e i s soliciting artwork that hits d i r e c t l y o n t h e idea of the modern Liberty. t h i n k i t i s a v ery lively discussion. I I think i t i s a n e x t r a o rdinarily rich artistic opportunity. I think anything short of just a c o n t i n u o u s o p e n -ended exploration of that cuts s h o r t e v e r y t h i n g we are trying to accomplish o n t h i s c o m m i t t ee, and that is fine art, fine e x p r e s s i o n , a n d fine integration of ideas. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 98 C H A I R M AN MARKS: D R . B U GEJA: Are there others? Greg, I’d like to say something. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Please, Michael. Go ahead. D R . B U GEJA: The concept of liberty, S o n s o f L i b e r t y from the beginning of our g r e a t c o u n t r y , depicted on this beautiful m e d a l , a n d t h e comments about Americans being a d i v e r s e n a t i o n, I wanted to say the concept o f l i b e r t y h a s really become difficult for m a n y t o u n d e r s t and. It’s freedom of movement, f r e e d o m t o g o w here we want, freedom to be w i t h w h o m w e w a nt. It’s not about rights. I t h i n k these designs, many of them, r e a l l y c a p t u r e that spirit of freedom. The i d e a o f l i b e r t y cannot be expressed ethnically o r n u m i s m a t i c a l ly in one medal. There has to b e a s e r i e s t o remind people what liberty is. W h i l e I’m on that topic, I’m sure t h e r e a r e m a n y people in Congress and in W a s h i n g t o n w h o embrace the idea of liberty. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 I Capital Reporting Company 99 t h i n k w e n e e d t o put that concept above what i t m i g h t o r m i g ht not do in terms of c o m p e t i t i o n w i t h other U.S. Mint products. I w a n t ed to add that, that liberty is i m p o r t a n t b u t i t is also complex, historical, a n d a r t i s t i c a l l y diverse. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you. Unless anybody else h a s c o m m e n t s , I will just add to the dialogue t h a t r e a l l y w h a t we are doing here is just a r e i t e r a t i o n o f what this committee is on r e c o r d a l r e a d y more than once with the whole a r t m e d a l p r o g r am idea, the importance of a d a t e d y e a r l y p r ogram. T h e c o ncept here, I want to make sure p e o p l e a r e c l e a r on it, we’re not saying that w e a r e g o i n g t o approve or recommend designs h e r e a n d t h a t i s what is going to be on this m e d a l e v e r y y e a r and the only difference is the date. T h a t is not it. W h a t w e are talking about here is a n n u a l c h a n g e s o that every year there is a n e w f r e s h i m a g e of Liberty paired with an (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 100 a p p r o p r i a t e r e v erse. That gets to what M i c h a e l M o r a n w as talking about, exploring, d i s c o v e r i n g , a n d celebrating all the diversity t h a t t h i s n a t i o n has, and honoring those d i f f e r e n t e l e m e nts, which is something we c a n ’ t d o w i t h o ne medal. I t h i n k we want to have it programmed i n a r e a s o n a b l e way, and it seems like an a n n u a l m e d a l , j ust one, with a changing L i b e r t y d e s i g n would be at least in the view o f t h i s c o m m i t t ee would be the best option going forward. J e a n n e , did you have something to add ? M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: I don’t know if t h i s i s a d d i n g or just a question. We were t a l k i n g a b o u t t he Liberty Medal, we are going t o p r o p o s e t h a t we change that obverse h o p e f u l l y e v e r y year; is that correct? What a b o u t t h e r e v e r se, is that also a change? C H A I R M AN MARKS: Our discussion, in f a c t , o u r r e s o l ution that we approved in S e p t e m b e r e n v i s ions changing designs for both (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 101 t h e o b v e r s e a n d reverse. M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: Okay. Thank you f o r t h e c l a r i f i cation. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Ultimately, there is a t e s t t o a l l o f this, whether this should be a n a n n u a l s e r i e s, and that is how well this f i r s t o n e i s a c cepted by the collecting community. I f we here on the committee are c o r r e c t , I t h i n k the Mint will have thousands o f r e a s o n s t o m ake it an annual program. If w e a r e n o t c o r r ect, well, at least we have a d d e d a m o d e r n Liberty in a one year program, a n d e v e n t h a t w ill be a success, I think, at l e a s t f r o m a n a rtistic point of view. W i t h t hat, Michael, do you want to read that again? Then we will go ahead and act on that. M R . M O RAN: The CCAC strongly r e c o m m e n d s t h a t this Liberty themed Silver M e d a l b e a n o n g oing series in order to satisfy t h e a n t i c i p a t e d strong reception in the c o l l e c t o r c o m m u nity and to allow Mint artists (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 102 t o f u l l y d e v e l o p the multicultural aspects of t h e n e w m o d e r n Liberty. C H A I R M AN MARKS: All those in favor, p l e a s e r a i s e y o ur hand. D R . B U GEJA: Aye. ( S h o w of hands.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: unanimous vote. We have another For the record, I just want t o s a y w e h a v e had six motions, every one of them unanimous. I want to thank the committee f o r y o u r w o r k o n this. There was a lot of w o r k t h a t w e n t into developing all of this, in a s e n s e , t o d e v elop a recommendation platform, s o t h a t w e w e r e sure as a committee that we h a d a r t i c u l a t e d and discharged our duties a p p r o p r i a t e l y f or a program that we think is very important. A t t h i s point, I believe with all the d i s c u s s i o n w e h ave had, we are ready to look at the designs. M S . S T AFFORD: Mr. Chairman, before w e b e g i n t h e d e s i g n discussion, I would say what (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 103 w o u l d b e h e l p f u l to us as we go through the o b v e r s e a n d r e v erse designs because we really l e f t t h e t a s k w ide open for the artists, you c a n s e e i n t h e portfolio each artist came with t h e i d e a o f a m odern rendition of Liberty or a n E a g l e v e r y d ifferently, so whether it is on a f u t u r e L i b e r t y Theme Silver Medal Program or u p c o m i n g P l a t i n um Program, it would be nice to h a v e l o t s o f f e edback, lots of information we c o u l d s h a r e w i t h the artists for those other p r o g r a m s , t o o , about what you are seeing that i s w o r k i n g , w h a t you would like to see more o f , b e s i d e s j u s t a recommendation for this p a r t i c u l a r p r o g ram. C H A I R M AN MARKS: I think you are goin g t o g e t i t i n a very productive way. Just a n o t e o n t h e t i m e, I know we are short on time. I a m g o i n g t o d o my best, folks, to manage it. T h i s w a s j u s t t oo important. I’m going to t e l l y o u t h a t b y the end of the day we are g o i n g t o b e w h e re we need to be. W i t h t hat, I’m going to move to our (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 104 t r a d i t i o n a l c u l ling process, c -u-l-l -i-n-g, w h e r e w e g o t h r ough whenever we have a p o r t f o l i o o f s i gnificant size, numbers of d e s i g n s , w e g o through and we have an initial c u l l i n g w h e r e w e discover which designs have i n t e r e s t a m o n g the committee. A n y c o mmittee member who indicates t h e y w a n t t o c o ntinue to look at a design, all t h e y h a v e t o d o is indicate so as we go t h r o u g h t h i s p r ocess and it remains. If no o n e w a n t s t o l o ok at a particular design, we w i l l s e t i t a s i de so we can focus our time on t h o s e d e s i g n s t hat have interest. W i t h t hat, I want to start with the obverse. T h e y are up on the screen. Number 1 , o b v e r s e o n e , is there interest in one? M S . L A NNIN: Yes. C H A I R M AN MARKS: 2? Is there interest in S e t t i n g 2 a side. M R . J A NSEN: I heard a “yes.” C H A I R M AN MARKS: Three? For 2? C F A a p p roved this one. I’m sorry. Is there (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 105 interest in 3? M S . W A STWEET: Yes. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Four? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Setting 4 aside. I ’ l l e n c o u r a g e the members to include those y o u a r e s e r i o u s about for discussion. a l o t o f t h e s e here. We have If it’s a mild passing i n t e r e s t a n d y o u aren’t going to give it a lot o f s u p p o r t a n y w ay, let’s try to narrow this d o w n s o w e c a n really focus good time on those t h a t w e c o n s i d e r possible candidates for this medal and coin. Five? Is there interest in 5? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Setting 5 aside. Six? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: M R . H O GE: Passing on 6. Yes. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Eight? ( N o r e sponse.) (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Seven ? Capital Reporting Company 106 C H A I R M AN MARKS: Putting that aside? Nine? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Putting that aside. Ten? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: D R . B U GEJA: 11? Yes. C H A I R M AN MARKS: M R . J A NSEN: Passing on 10. Yes. 12? Yes. C H A I R M AN MARKS: 13? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Setting 13 aside. 14? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Setting it aside. 15? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Passing on 15. 16? Passing on 16. 17? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: ( N o r e sponse.) (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 107 C H A I R M AN MARKS: 18? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Setting that aside. 19? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Setting it aside. 20? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: M R . M O RAN: Passing on 20. 21? I like it. C H A I R M AN MARKS: 22? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Setting that aside. 23? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Passing on 23. 24? Passing on 24. 25? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: aside. Setting that one T h a t i s the obverses. m o v e t o t h e r e v erses. Now we will Number 1? (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 108 M S . W A STWEET: M S . L A NNIN: Yes. Yes. M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: D R . B U GEJA: Yes. C H A I R M AN MARKS: M R . J A NSEN: Yes. Two? Number 1 was left in? C H A I R M AN MARKS: Yes. Two? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Setting 2 aside. Three? M S . L A NNIN: Yes. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Four? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Setting 4 aside. Five? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Passing on 5. Six? Passing on 6. Seven ? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Passing. Eight? ( N o r e sponse.) (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 109 C H A I R M AN MARKS: Setting 8 aside. Nine? M R . J A NSEN: Yes. C H A I R M AN MARKS: you. Interest in 9. Than k Ten? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Pass on that. 11? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Passing on that one. 12? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Setting 12 aside. 13? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: M R . M O RAN: 15? Yes. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you. 14? Yes. C H A I R M AN MARKS: M R . M O RAN: Passing on 13. Interest in 15. 16? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Setting that aside. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 110 I w i l l r e v i e w f or clarity of the record that t h e f o l l o w i n g d esigns are in consideration by the CCAC. 12, 21. O n t he obverses, 1, 2, 3, 7, 11, O n r e v erses, we have still being c o n s i d e r e d 1 , 3 , 9, 14, 15. N o w t h at we have gone through that e x e r c i s e , f o l k s , I will ask this question. M R . H O GE: Number 10 is the CFA recommendation. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Did you want to i n c l u d e t h a t o n e, Robert? M R . H O GE: I think maybe we should. C H A I R M AN MARKS: s a i d s o , w e w i l l. Okay. Because you I’m going to fish that one o u t h e r e , 1 0 , r everse. We will add to that to t h o s e w e a r e s t ill considering. B a c k t o what I was trying to a r t i c u l a t e t o y ou all. Now that you have i n d i c a t e d h e r e that certain designs you no l o n g e r w i s h t o look at, I’ll ask that we focus - - t h a t i s t h e reason we did this exercise -f o c u s o n t h e s e we have remaining. I’ve (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 111 n o t i c e d a p e c u l iar thing in the past where we h a v e d o n e t h i s exercise and people end up v o t i n g f o r d e s i gns that no one expressed i n t e r e s t i n b e f ore. You have the right to do t h a t i f y o u w i s h, but as far as the d i s c u s s i o n , I w ould ask that we focus on these designs. W i t h t hat, I’m going to start out and w h o e v e r e l s e w a nts to go next, let me know. I ’ m g o i n g t o b e brief. I agree with one of t h e C F A ’ s r e c o m mendations for the obverse, and t h a t i s n u m b e r 11, if we could bring that one u p , f o r a t l e a s t a couple of reasons. I t h i n k this design allows us the a b i l i t y t o m a x i mize the relief on that 40.6 m i l l i m e t e r p l a n chet. The reason is the same r e a s o n t h e S a i n t Gaudens -- the iconic Saint G a u d e n s C o i n i m age was able to lend itself w e l l t o h i g h r e lief, and that is you have a h u m a n f i g u r e i n the center which minimizes c o m p a r e d t o o t h er designs we have in the p o r t f o l i o t h e r aised elements. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 112 T h e w a y I would think a sculptor woul d l o o k a t t h i s p r oject would be to consider the f i g u r e o f M s . L iberty as the raised element h e r e w h i l e r a i s ing but minimizing to the dish o r t h e b o w l t h e flag image, so as to render it a s i n t h e b a c k g round. It would lay flatter on t h e b o w l , a n d m aybe to some extent the l e t t e r s , t h e t e xt. I think that would give m a x i m u m m e d a l f low to raising up Ms. Liberty. F r o m a n artistic point of view, I r e a l l y f i n d t h i s design attractive. We always w a n t M s . L i b e r t y to be beautiful, to be s o m e t h i n g a t t r a ctive, and that is why Ms. L i b e r t y e x i s t s , the human personification of s o m e t h i n g p r e c i ous to us. We image that as a b e a u t i f u l w o m a n , and that is part of our i c o n o l o g y i n A m erican coinage. I think this r e n d e r s t h a t i d ea very well. I ’ m t a ken with the fact that the face i s n o t a n A n g l o face. mix of heritage. This woman could be a The eyes tell me she’s p e r h a p s m u l t i c u ltural. I really find that (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 113 a p p e a l i n g , w i t h all the discussion we have a l r e a d y h a d a b o ut that subject. I a l s o like the large letters “LIBERTY.” I t hink if you put that on that 4 0 . 6 p l a n c h e t , that is going to be really stunning. I w a nt everyone to look at this -- y o u l o o k e d a t t he American Silver Eagle I p a s s e d a r o u n d e arlier and all the polish, all t h e b l a n k s p a c e , the negative space on this d e s i g n , i m a g i n e that as polish, just flashing p o l i s h t h e M i n t is able to bring up. Imagine t h a t c o n t r a s t e d with the frost that we’re familiar with. I n t h i s case, I would ask the Mint to d i a l b a c k s o m e on the variations of frost. I t h i n k w e w a n t a bold contrast for this medal. I t h i n k a l o t o f this applies to the Gold C o i n , t o o , t h e same things I’m saying, e s p e c i a l l y w h e n it comes to the high relief t h a t w e a r e a b s olutely going to try to do on t h e G o l d C o i n , this image allows us to do that. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 114 I t h i n k the torch, another icon of h o p e , o f v i s i o n , of knowledge, is a wonderful i m a g e t o h a v e w ith Ms. Liberty, and of course, t h e S t a r s a n d S tripes. me. This says it all to I ’ m s u p p o r ting number 3. A s f a r as the reverse design, I’ll be s o m e w h a t b r i e f e r. M R . J A NSEN: Did you say number 3 or 11? C H A I R M AN MARKS: I misspoke. Eleven. I’m sorry. O n the reverse, we have visited a v a r i a t i o n o f t h is design number 1, reverse 1, before. T h i s i n fact is a variation of what t h e c o m m i t t e e r ecommended back on April 8 when w e w e r e t h i n k i n g in terms of the American Silver Eagle. T h i s i s where on the Gold Coin, down a t t h e b o t t o m , where it says “$75,” that would b e c o m e “ O n e U n i on,” and then the denomination r e p r e s e n t e d i n numbers, “$100.” That is where t h a t w o u l d a p p e ar. I t h i n k from a striking point of view (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 115 a n d a s y o u l o o k at relief, I would tend to t h i n k t h a t y o u would lower the relief on this s o m e w h a t t o f a v or the obverse, which I don’t t h i n k i s a n u n u sual practice when you are l o o k i n g a t a h i gh relief coin, to try to put m o r e o f t h e p o w er to the obverse. I think t h i s E a g l e i s s omething with detail and such t h a t i f y o u d i a l the relief back a little bit, y o u w o u l d s t i l l have stunning designs. I t h i n k t h e p a i r i ng between 11 and 1 would be amazing. T h e o n ly criticism I have of this d e s i g n i s t h e o live branch. It doesn’t appear r e a l i s t i c a l l y t o me that the Eagle would have g r i p p e d t h e o l i ve branch from behind and f l y i n g a t a n y k ind of velocity, that the b r a n c h w o u l d b e managing to stay somewhat horizontal. I w o u l d suggest that if we approve t h i s d e s i g n , w e talk about asking that at l e a s t p a r t o f t his olive branch be eliminated, f r e e i n g u p m o r e of the negative space. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 116 W i t h t hat, who would like to go next? D R . B U GEJA: Gary, I’d like to do, if t h a t i s o k a y w i th you. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Yes, Michael. I w o u l d b e v e r y p leased to have you weigh in. D R . B U GEJA: First of all, I t h o r o u g h l y a g r e e with what you said, Gary. f a v o r i t e o n t h e obverse was 11. My I also have s o m e g o o d f e e l i ng for 7 because of the depth and the o r i e n t ation. When I compare the two, 1 1 i s m y c l e a r favorite. I w a s intrigued with 3, which the CFA h a s r e c o m m e n d e d , because we do need to d i v e r s i f y L i b e r ty. In all the other designs, a n d I b e l i e v e I ’m right in this, there are s y m b o l s o f L i b e rty. The wheat here is for a g r i c u l t u r e , I understand that. We are m i s s i n g a l o t o f the symbols that every other design has. I n a d d ition, the artwork on number 3 k i n d o f m a k e s t he head a bust, if you look at e v e r y t h i n g e l s e , for instance, number 6 or (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 117 e v e n n u m b e r 5 , there is something in front of i t t h a t p r e v e n t s the bust- like appearance. It i s a n o b l e f a c e , but my main criticism of 3 is t h a t i t i s l a c k ing the symbolism that many of the others have. W h e n I look at the reverse, there are s o m a n y d i f f e r e nt ones that we could approve, I h a p p e n t o h a v e liked number 1 immediately. I t a k e w h a t y o u said, Gary, about the olive leaf. I t h i n k that is an opportunity to curl t h e e n d o f t h a t olive branch in, to give the c o i n a l i t t l e b it more depth. I c o u l d talk about others that would come close. I do like 9. There are so many t h a t I c o u l d t a lk favorably about. I was i m p r e s s e d w i t h all the designs here, so much b e a u t i f u l a r t w o rk. O n a p roduct as innovative as this, I t h i n k i t i s i m p ortant to have the symbols of L i b e r t y c l e a r l y stated. I like the idea of t h e v e r y l a r g e Liberty, and I like the pairing of 11 and 1. T hank you, Mr. Chairman. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 118 C H A I R M AN MARKS: M R . W E INMAN: Thank you, Michael. Mr. Chairman, real q u i c k l y , a s a p oint of information, and take i t f o r w h a t i t ’ s worth. comment on that. The CFA made a They said they found that n u m b e r 3 w a s a strong woman on her own terms, a n d t h e r e w a s n o need for other symbols of L i b e r t y a r o u n d her. So, take that for what it’s worth. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you very much. Michael? M R . M O RAN: Thank you, Gary. On the o b v e r s e s , I w i l l start with number 21 and just a d m i t t o t h e g r oup that I’m a sucker for Art Duboe. I t ’ s n i ce, but when I go back to it a n d l o o k a t w h a t we really want to do, which i s p r o v i d e a n o bverse that has a symbol and a l s o i s s t r i k e a ble, it is number 11. That is w h e r e I ’ l l b e v oting. I w o u l d say I’m a bit bothered by the s t a f f o f t h e f l ag. dominant. It’s a little too I ’ m also bothered because it (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 119 i n t r o d u c e s a n a ngle to the coin that’s not t h e r e i n t h e r e st of the design and in the motif. I w o u l d soften that angle to the flag a l i t t l e b i t , b ut that’s personal. T h i s i s where I’m going to vote and t h i s i s w h a t I support. O n t h e reverses, again, let me skip t o w h a t I ’ m n o t g o ing to do, which is the one t h a t I a s k e d t o be kept on there, number 14. I j u s t t h i n k t h at is a very good design for a r e v e r s e w i t h t h e Eagle. I like the way it is c r o p p e d w i t h t h e oak leaves for strength. I t h i n k t h a t i s s omething that ought to come back again. T h at is why I did that. It d e s e r v e s a r u n n er up. L e t ’ s go to number 1. It’s been a f a v o r i t e o f m i n e from the beginning. I’m glad t o s e e t h e C F A has recommended it and I think i t ’ s p r o b a b l y g oing to get recommended here as well. I w a n t t o point out one thing here as y o u l o o k a t t h e two of these, and I think c r o p p i n g t h e o l ive branch will help, but in (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 120 t h e S i l v e r M e d a l rendition, you have an equal rising. I n t h e Gold Coin, you do not. cannot be. That E i t her you move the inscriptions o r y o u f i n d a w ay to get that Eagle rising. Y o u h a v e d a m a g e d the image by having that Eagle fly level. It cannot be allowed. N o w t h at I have had my temper tantrum , l e t m e a l s o s a y that you are going to be p u t t i n g t h e r e l ief on the central figure on t h e o b v e r s e , i t has to be that way. important. It’s B u t this Eagle with just a little b i t o f r e l i e f , those wings will pop, it will l o o k r e a l l y g o o d on the polished field. I t h i n k i t w i l l j ump out of the coin in much the s a m e w a y a s A u g ustus Saint Gaudens’ reverse on the Eagle. W i t h a dead hand on the sculpture, it won’t. I t n e e d s finesse because you are going t o b e w o r k i n g w ith a lower relief to get this d o n e , a n d I k n o w I’m treading in areas where I s h o u l d n o t t r e a d, but I will anyway. It needs t o h a v e t h e M i n t’s best sculptor on it. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 I’m Capital Reporting Company 121 done. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you, Michael. W e w i l l g o t o a wonderful sculptor, Heidi. M S . W A STWEET: Thank you, Gary. s t a r t w i t h o b v e rse number 3. a p p l a u d t h i s d e sign. Let’ s I just want to I was real excited to s e e s u c h a s t r o ng ethnic face in our packet, a n d t h a t i s e x c iting. I would have liked to h a v e s e e n a l o n ger and more graceful neck and m a y b e a s o f t e r expression. Considering the t e c h n i c a l a s p e c ts of getting the most for our r e l i e f , I t h i n k this particular design is not g o i n g t o b e t h e most advantageous, so I’m g o i n g t o p a s s o n this design, but I do want to c a l l i t o u t a n d applaud it. M R . M O RAN: It’s tough to strike. M S . W A STWEET: Obverse 11, again I w a n t t o c o m m e n d the artist. I think this is a r e a l l y b e a u t i f u l design and a beautiful drawing. I l i k e the face, as Gary mentioned, i t c a l l s t o m e a multi- ethnicity, which really a t t r a c t s m e t o it. I like the boldness. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 I Capital Reporting Company 122 l i k e t h e w a y h e r drapery softens toward the bottom. I h o p e we can keep that in the s c u l p t u r e a n d h ave many depths to the s c u l p t u r e w h e n we see this in the coin, not j u s t h a v e e v e r y thing coming as strong as p o s s i b l e , b u t h ave certain areas stronger and o t h e r a r e a s s o f ter, to really utilize the s u b t l e t i e s o f t his design. I strongly support this. S l i g h t ly disturbed by the way the “We ” r u n s o v e r t h e p ole of the flag. It is always a l i t t l e a w k w a r d to have letters running up over the image. It’s tolerable but I would l i k e t o a v o i d t hat in the future. S i n c e April asked for some comments a b o u t p l u s e s a n d minuses, in the packet in g e n e r a l , I n o t i ced there tends to be a habit o f c r o w d i n g t h e space. The artists are f e e l i n g a n e e d to put something in every c o r n e r a n d e v e r y space of the coin, so a lot o f t h e s e d e s i g n s have no breathing room, and (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 123 i t c o u l d a d d a lot to just have a little open s p a c e , n o t e m p t y space, but open space, so the i m a g e c a n b r e a t he a little. I ’ v e t alked before about anatomy, and I n e e d t o s a y i t again. Anatomy is really important. I get really I t ’ s basic. d i s c o u r a g e d a n d I know we all do when we look a t o u r p a c k e t a nd we see basic anatomy flaws. W e n e e d t o g e t that dialed in. E v e n i n the pieces that are stylized, t h e a n a t o m y i s still important. i s v e r y i m p o r t a nt. symbology. The gesture Also, the correct use of T h e re were some labeling here that s a i d t h e y w e r e olive branches when really they l o o k e d m o r e l i k e laurel or palm fronds, that l o o k e d l i k e f e a thers instead of palm fronds, o r a s s i g n i n g r a ndom meaning to established symbols. A t o r c h is always going to be the light. I n o n e of these designs, we had a l a m p , w h i c h i n the language of American c o i n a g e , a l a m p is a symbol of education and (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 124 k n o w l e d g e , n o t of liberty. than the torch. It is different Let’s be careful about that. R e v e r s es, I’ll go right to number 1. W e h a v e s u p p o r t ed this design in the past. s t i l l l i k e i t v ery much. I am going to s u p p o r t d e s i g n number 1. There are some I c o m p o s i t i o n a l d ifferences as Michael mentioned b e t w e e n t h e c o i n layout and the medal layout. I n t h e coin layout, the bird’s beak is r i g h t u p a g a i n s t the edge of the coin and it f e e l s l i k e h e i s going to fly off the coin. I t j u s t f e e l s v ery crowded, where the subtle d i f f e r e n c e i s i n the second medal having the E a g l e s l i g h t l y slanted upward. w i t h i n t h e s p a c e of the coin. He is well He has enough b r e a t h i n g r o o m , the beak isn’t right up a g a i n s t t h e e d g e. I think this layout would s e r v e b o t h t h e coin and the medal. M S . S T AFFORD: Yes, and actually, jus t f o r c l a r i t y , t h ank you for pointing that out. We apologize. Somebody had actually asked us t o l i f t t h e E a g le. That was the change but it (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 125 d i d n ’ t m i g r a t e to the Gold. M S . W A STWEET: Slight caution on the f e a t h e r s , o n t h e breast, they look a little l i k e s c a l e s , s o the shape of the feathers need t o c h a n g e , j u s t a little, very minor. The o l i v e b r a n c h , j ust a little too much volume of the branch. W e can thin that out and make it a l i t t l e b i t l e ss bushy. R e v e r s e number 3, I’ve talked about t h i s b e f o r e a n d I’ll reiterate that. That is a l o t o f f o r e s h ortening there for a relief, e v e n w h e n w e a r e trying to do a high relief coin. I t l o o k s one way in the drawing. g o i n g t o l o o k a nother way in the coin. It’s I a l w a y s w a n t t o steer away from that drastic foreshortening. T o w a r d s the end of the packet there a r e s o m e d e s i g n s where it is just focusing in o n t h e h e a d o f the Eagle. These might work f o r a n o t h e r p r o ject, but I don’t think it is g o i n g t o w o r k f or this project because we are l e a n i n g t o w a r d s this figure on the front, and (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 126 t h e n i f w e h a v e the head of the Eagle on the b a c k , i t c o n f u s es the heads and tails aspects o f t h e c o i n , s o I want to steer away from those. R e v e r s e 10, the CFA preference. a r e g o i n g t o t a lk about anatomy again. We The u n d e r s i d e o f t he wing and the way it flows i n t o t h e b o d y , the way it flows into the tail, i s c o m p l e t e l y i naccurate. For that reason, I c a n ’ t s u p p o r t t his design at all. I t h i n k that is all my comments. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you, Heidi. B e f o r e w e m o v e on, I want to amend my comments. C o u l d we go to Reverse 1, please? N o t a m e n d , a d d to. Michael Moran brought up t h e i d e a o f t h e rising Eagle on the medal and t h e l e v e l E a g l e on the coin. For two reasons I p r e f e r t h e v e rsion on the medal, the rising E a g l e , o n e , f o r what Michael talked about, but a l s o i t ’ s a l i t tle smaller than the other Eagle. I f w e are talking about trying to (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 127 b a l a n c e r e l i e f from the obverse and reverse a n d g i v i n g p o w e r to the obverse, I think h a v i n g a l i t t l e less medal flow on the reverse i s g o i n g t o h e l p, so I think the medal image w e s e e h e r e i s probably a better bet for us, f o r t h e c h a l l e n ging goals that we asked the Mint to take on. Just my thoughts on that. W i t h t hat, I will go to Erik. M R . J A NSEN: I’m going to echo some c o m m e n t s t h a t H eidi made on the packet. Going f o r w a r d , w e h a v e really highlighted the c o n c e p t o f t h e modern Liberty. If you look at t h i s p a c k e t , w e retained scan one of the back h a l f o f t h e o b v erse designs, and I think if I m a y r e a d i n t o t he committee’s response to t h o s e , t h e y l o o k more classic than modern. w o u l d s a y g o i n g forward, I want to make sure t h e c h a r g e t h a t goes to the artists really e m p h a s i z e s t h e new opportunity and not r e c a s t i n g c l a s s ic designs in this case onto this product. A s I e nvision this, the real (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 I Capital Reporting Company 128 o p p o r t u n i t y h e r e is to explore and integrate k i n d o f t h e n e w think. That would be kind of m y o v e r a l l p a c k et thoughts. M S . S T AFFORD: Mr. Jansen, if I might s h a r e w i t h y o u , the CFA actually made a s i m i l a r c o m m e n t about if it’s modern Liberty y o u ’ r e l o o k i n g for, we see a lot of classical e l e m e n t s r e p e a t ing, and they actually called o u t o b v e r s e 1 1 for that, saying her frock is e x c e e d i n g l y c l a ssical. I o n l y share that because we did very m u c h s p e c i f y a n d repeat to the artists modern L i b e r t y , a m o d e rn rendition, and many of them c a m e b a c k w i t h questions about does that p r e c l u d e u s r e f erencing classical iconography o r i m a g e s , s o I don’t want to speak for the a r t i s t s b u t I k now a lot of them reached to t h a t i n r e f e r e n ce to we are trying to serve it u p i n a n e w m o d ern way. Your point is still t a k e n a n d w e w i ll absolutely share that. M R . J A NSEN: It is interesting, it g e t s b a c k t o t h e old comment, I can’t describe (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 129 i t b u t I k n o w i t when I see it. t o s a y 1 1 i n t h is case. I will harken The use of the very b i g f o n t t o m e speaks to modern, even though h e r g o w n m i g h t be a little more classic. I c o u l d n ’ t h a v e d escribed it, but I know it when I see it. M S . S T AFFORD: Thank you. c o m m e n t s a r e v e ry helpful. Those We will make sure a l l o u r a r t i s t s hear all of that. M R . J A NSEN: The last thing that I t h i n k a n y o f u s want to do is to shut off new i d e a s a n d n e w t hink. Your calling that out on 1 1 i s j u s t a r e ally beautiful fact, golly, I c o u l d n ’ t h a v e d escribed it the way I see it, but there it is. M S . W A STWEET: If I can interject and a d d t o w h a t y o u are saying, I think it’s p e r f e c t l y a c c e p table and desired to reference c l a s s i c w o r k i n a modern way, and I think this d e s i g n d o e s i t in a subtle way. It’s not in y o u r f a c e m o d e r n, but the face, the drawing, i t ’ s j u s t m o d e r n enough to be I would say (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 130 c o n t e m p o r a r y , w ith a firm hold on our heritage. M R . J A NSEN: Right. We are not tryin g t o t u r n t h i s i n to Cubist art, per se. m i g h t b e o n e w a y to do it. It I don’t want to l e a n s o h e a v i l y into that as to preclude some g e n t l e i n t e g r a t ion of different features. M S . W A STWEET: There are some designs i n t h e p a c k e t t hat are definitely trying too h a r d t o b e w h a t our coins were in the past. M R . J A NSEN: Having said that, I foun d t h e a r t a l i t t l e challenging to get through w i t h a r e a l s t r ong sense of satisfaction. I d i d appreciate some edginess here, i f I c a n p u t a word in there that I can’t h a r d l y d e s c r i b e it but I know when I feel it, t h e n e c k o n d e s ign obverse 2 is pretty doggone edgy. I h a d s e en an adaptation of this with k i n d o f e i t h e r hair or a bit of headdress w h i c h s o f t e n e d and took a little bit of an a n g u l a r g r a c e t o what is a very, very stark n e c k l i n e h e r e , totally changed the look of it. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 131 I n t h i s c a s e , I ’m going to kind of walk away from design 2. D e s i g n 3, I’m going to make a comment t h a t h a s b e e n m ade before, I think. I’m going t o e n c o u r a g e a r tists in the future, do not use s o m u c h g r a y s c a ling. d e c e i v e s u s h e r e. Grayscaling just Obviously, the risk we a l w a y s r u n i n t hese designs are translating it. S o m e b o d y t old me that earlier today, that t h e y r e a l l y w a n t to focus on the translation, a n d I t h o u g h t t hat’s really a great idea, b e c a u s e s o m e t i m es we have great intentions, we h a v e g r e a t a r t , and then we look at the coin a n d w e g o w o w , what happened. We got off somewhere. T h e h e avy use of grayscaling may be g r e a t i f y o u ’ r e looking for pen and ink d r a w i n g s , b u t i t really isn’t helpful here, a n d I t h i n k t h a t especially will show up here i n s o m e o f t h e reverse discussions. I r e s p ect the CFA’s raising the issue o f d i v e r s i t y h e re. I really think that is (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 132 wonderful. I n this particular case, I’m not s u r e I l i k e t h e actual artwork. in some symbols. It’s lacking I think we can do better. T h e i d e a a n d t h e effort is really notable. W h e n I look at 11 and 12, I think 12 i s a p r o b l e m a t i c design in a high relief e f f o r t t h a t w e are making here, largely b e c a u s e I ’ m t r y ing to envision how that bleed o f t h e p o l e a n d the sword go to the perimeter, t h a t v e r y n a r r o w bleed is actually going to m a k e t h e r e l i e f look like golly, why did you do that. I t ’ s not going to be attractive. T h i s w ill apply in the reverse design s as well. W h e n I look at the heavy central e l e m e n t s , I t h i nk that is going to accentuate the relief. M y f a v orite here is 11. Gary made th e c o m m e n t s a b o u t the big font, and whereas it’s a c e n t r a l f e e l i ng, I wasn’t able to identify t h a t u p f r o n t , so I appreciate that. There m a y b e a n o p p o r tunity here for texture. I r e a l l y d o n ’ t w a nt to over texture this thing (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 133 b u t t h e f l a g r e ally begs it. That might be s o m e t h i n g - - I don’t think it will be part of o u r a d o p t i o n , p er se, I haven’t heard anyone e l s e r e a l l y r a i se the issue, but I would c e r t a i n l y l i k e the artistic freedom to retain t h a t d e g r e e o f freedom when you are actually t r y i n g t o b r i n g this product to a production level. I a m g oing to pass on 21 as well. t a l k e d a b o u t m o dern. singular on 11. We My choice here really is If I look at 7, I think t h a t ’ s g o i n g t o strike out poorly in a high r e l i e f e f f o r t b ecause there is just so much d e t a i l a f t e r t h e perimeter. I could be wrong. I t c o u l d b e t h a t all that excitement actually c r e a t e s c o m p l e x ity, but in this case, I’m g o i n g t o p u t m y bets on 11. W h e n I go to the reverses, I’m not as t h r i l l e d a s m a n y on this committee are on design 1. I t h ink it can work. c a n w o r k r e a l l y well. I think it One of the features I w i l l s a y I l i k e about design number 1 is in (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 134 o u r s e t o f o p e n ing six motions we advocated t h e u s e o f t h e “One Union” denomination, and t h i s p a r t i c u l a r design of the ones we r e t a i n e d , g i v e s me plenty of space to replace t h e v e r b a l $ 7 5 here with “One Union - $100.” I t h i n k that can feature very, very w e l l , a n d I w o u ld like to retain that in a f a i r l y d o m i n a n t font, 75 is written here as t h e p r o x y i s t h e second largest font on it. I w o u l d l i k e t o k eep it that way. D e s i g n number three I think is a r e a l l y p r o v o c a t ive design. The problem I have w i t h t h a t i s t h at could also be a Seagull. t h i n k w e n e e d q uintessentially “Eagle.” I The f o r e s h o r t e n i n g comment Heidi raised I think is right on. I t h ink high relief emphasis mode, I t h i n k t h e s t r iations in the background are a l i t t l e d i f f i c u l t to manage. i n t e r e s t i n g p i e ce of art. I think it is an I just don’t think i t i s f o r o u r c oin here. E i g h t , it may be a digital design t e c h n i q u e t h a t I suspect was used on this one, (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 135 b u t t h a t f e e l s like somebody has picked up an e x i s t i n g p i e c e of sculpture somewhere. S o m e t h i n g i n m e says is that an original image o r d i d w e c o p y something. w h e r e t h a t c o m e s from. I can’t tell you That is just what kind o f s h o o t s t h r o u gh me. M R . W E INMAN: M R . J A NSEN: Number 8? Number 8 on the reverse. T h e b i r d f e e l s almost scaly as opposed to l i g h t a n d f e a t h ered. M S . S T AFFORD: To let members know, t h i s i s o n e t h a t was culled. M R . J A NSEN: I’m sorry. Number 10, I t h i n k a n a t o m i c a lly this one is really troubling to me. The bird feels heavy. A g a i n , I ’ v e g o t so much gray in there, it’s j u s t c o u n t e r p r o ductive to me. I think the b l e e d w o u l d n o t work in this case. The p e r i m e t e r , w h e r eas, very often when we are in a f l a t t e r r e l i e f, having a nice high flat p l a t e a u p e r i m e t er that we can drop letters i n t o c a n b e r e a lly effective. In this case, I (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 136 d o n ’ t t h i n k t h a t is what we are looking for here. I a c t u ally like 14. I think it will s t r i k e u p f a n t a stically in high relief. S o m e h o w a g a i n t wo headed. I want more energy o u t o f t h e E a g l e than just kind of neck and shoulders up. I a m g oing to weigh in almost s i n g u l a r l y o n r everse number 1. C H A I R M AN MARKS: M S . L A NNIN: Thank you. Mary? In terms of obverses, n u m b e r 1 1 i s t h e one that does it for me in t e r m s o f b e i n g able to strike up what we are t a l k i n g a b o u t , the goal that we have of sort o f t h e w o w f a c t or. I would like to say a l i t t l e p l u s f o r number 7, even though it leads to the edge. choice at all. I thought that was not a bad Followed in distant third p l a c e f o r m e b y number 1, which is one of the t h i n g s I v o t e d to keep. I think for me it is g o i n g t o b e n u m ber 11. I n t e r ms of reverses, everything that (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 137 e v e r y o n e h a s s a id about number 3 -- I’m sorry - - n u m b e r 1 i s true. I think the Eagle d o e s n ’ t n e e d t o carry quite that much weight i n t e r m s o f t h e olive branch. s m a l l e r t w i g , w hatever. It can be a I like the graphics o f t h e a r t - - n ot the art, the epigraphy on i t , e s p e c i a l l y the idea of adding the “One Union.” I t h i n k that is going to look really n i c e a t t h e b o t tom. I ’ d l i ke to put in a plug for number 3. I w a s e x c i t ed. I don’t think it looks like a Seagull. ( L a u g h ter.) M S . L A NNIN: That’s an Eagle that means business. D R . V I OLA: True. M S . L A NNIN: He’s coming right at me. I t h i n k t h e r e i s a lot to recommend. For this o n e I t h i n k s a d ly it is probably going to wind u p i n s e c o n d p l ace, but I would like to put in m y p l u g f o r n u m ber 3. That’s it. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Very good. Herman? (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 138 D R . V I OLA: Thank you. I would have t o s a y q u i t e a challenge with some of these r e a l l y w o n d e r f u l designs, but talking about G a r y ’ s e y e b l a s t, when I saw number 3, I t h o u g h t m y G o d , we are really breaking new ground here. I will agree number 11 is p r o b a b l y m o r e a ppropriate, especially since it d o e s g i v e y o u t he sense of multicultural, m u l t i -e t h n i c i t y . L e t ’ s hope we can do something more v i s i b l y l i k e n u mber 3, but for this new coin, I t h i n k t h i s i s the one. F o r t h e reverse, I have to say I agre e w i t h t h e d i s c u s sions about number 1. The m e d a l o n e i s r e ally quite, quite nice. I t h i n k w e s h o u l d recommend the feathering is a l i t t l e m o r e s u b tle like Heidi suggests, b e c a u s e i t r e a l ly doesn’t quite look like what a n E a g l e w o u l d look like. I think the sprigs, i f y o u h a v e s e e n a lot of birds flying, it r e a l l y w o u l d n ’ t work right, as people have s u g g e s t e d , w e h ave to cut off that one that is (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 139 d a n g l i n g d o w n a nd maybe have it curl around s o m e h o w , b u t w h en you put the “One Union” on, i t w i l l g i v e i t a very nice balance. T h a t i s about all I have to add. You r c o m m e n t s h a v e a ll been very enlightening. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Jeanne? M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: Thank you, Gary. I a l s o w a n t t o comment on the entire packet a n d t o t h e a r t i sts that work extremely hard f o r t h e s e d e s i g ns. I think when we talk about l i b e r t y , e v e r y b ody interprets it their own way. I w a s h a p py to see so many different r e p r e s e n t a t i o n s of it. H o w e v e r, to address what we look at h e r e , a n d I ’ m s ure the artists want to know w h y w a s n ’ t m y d esign at least talked about, w h y d i d n ’ t t h a t one make the cut. To address a l l o f t h o s e t h at did not make the cut, I t h i n k t h e y a l l had too much information. T h e r e w a s j u s t not enough negative space. I t h i n k t h e o n e s that we did look at and we kept w i t h i n o u r d i s c ussion were those that were (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 140 more simple. I w o u l d again try to recommend or not t r y b u t I d o r e commend to the artists to think less. M o r e i s not always great when we are l o o k i n g a t s u c h a tiny field of information. I w a n t ed to speak about number 2 for t h e s i m p l e r e a s on that I thought she was quite lovely. S h e w a s ethnic. She was positive. l i k e d h e r e x c e p t for her large, long neck. I I t h i n k i f s h e h a d a little bit of a collar on o r a l i t t l e b i t of something in the background t o h e l p a n c h o r her neck a little bit, it would b e a b e t t e r d e s ign for me. I do like her. H o w e v e r, I think I am going to have t o g o w i t h t h e r e s t of the committee on number 11. I t d o e s s p eak of modernity. I think n o b o d y r e a l l y h as addressed the fact that g a r m e n t s c h a n g e from year to year. Please, gentlemen. ( L a u g h ter.) M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: fine. I think this is T h i s c o u ld be today, this could be (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 141 yesterday. I t could have been 100 years ago. K u d o s t o w h o e v e r invented this dress. I think it’s lovely. I h a v e a problem with the flag, the p o l e c o m i n g d o w n. for me. That is a little annoying I k n o w Heidi was not wanting to move “ T r u s t ” t o o c l o se to the flag. I’m wondering - - i t s e e m s l i k e we are going to choose this o n e - - i f w e c a n make the flag a little s m a l l e r s o w e d on’t have that. M S . W A STWEET: Is that wording required? M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: Trust.” that. I f w e could sort of do something with I t h i n k it’s a great design. M R . E V ERHART: that. “In God We D o n E v e r hart. I have a thought on If we could leave the f l a g t h e w a y i t is but rotate the pole c l o c k w i s e s o i t overlaps or underlaps the “We.” M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: great. That would be I t h i n k that would be super. Moving (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 142 o n t o t h e r e v e r se, I have to agree with my c o l l e a g u e s t h a t number 1 is quite elegant, and I t h i n k t h e r i s ing Eagle in the medal is a good idea. W e need to do that. I d o w ant to point out in number 10, I k n o w t h e C F A c h ose this, I wonder if they were o u t t o l u n c h f o r this. Sorry. ( L a u g h ter.) M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: This is just an a m a z i n g c h o i c e for that committee to make. T h e r e n e e d s t o be more study on how this bird is put together. finished now. It is just really sad. Thank you very much. I’m That’s a b o u t a l l I c a n say. ( L a u g h ter.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: M R . U R AM: Thomas? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I ’ m j u s t g o i n g to make my comments directed t o w a r d s a c o u p l e here but particularly number 1 1 o n t h e o b v e r se. I look at this Liberty as b e i n g a v e r y i n quisitive Liberty. I like how s h e i s l o o k i n g out to the future. I think she (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 143 i s q u e s t i o n i n g what liberty is. i s a s k i n g y o u t o look beyond. t h a t t h e f l a m e is there. I think she I like the fact The whole movement i s j u s t g r e a t , and her eyes versus looking s t r a i g h t a h e a d like it was on the 2007, which i s a l i t t l e d i f ferent, this is a much more q u e s t i o n i n g L i b erty in my opinion. D o n , I did have a question for you as I w a s l o o k i n g t his over. I think what was s a i d a b o u t t h e pole and moving it to give it s o m e m o r e f l o w , but what if we just reduced t h e “ 2 0 1 5 ” d o w n a little bit and had the whole “ I n G o d W e T r u s t” on the left side freeing up s o m e m o r e m o v e m ent for the flag as it would be i n t h e f i e l d , s o you would have almost threeq u a r t e r s o f t h i s with the large LIBERTY, the s m a l l e r w o r d i n g of “2015” and “In God We T r u s t ” o n t h e l eft, and that total movement of t h r e e -q u a r t e r s of the coin. M R . E V ERHART: You could put “In God W e T r u s t ” o n t h e left and then decrease the s i z e o f “ 2 0 1 5 ” and put it underneath. I would (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 144 r e c o m m e n d h o r i z ontal. M R . U R AM: I think that would give yo u a l o t m o r e m o t i on with the flag as it is in t h e m e d a l o v e r there. i s n o t h i n g t h e r e. As you can see, there I think if you could get t h a t d e p t h p e r c eption in the wind and m o v e m e n t , w i t h her holding her arm out, l o o k i n g o u t , a n d then the flag moving backward a n d c h a n g i n g t h at pole slightly, then you d o n ’ t h a v e y o u r eyes directed at all towards a n y w o r d i n g i n that right bottom corner. M R . E V ERHART: M R . U R AM: That would work. Also, going to the obverse , I a g r e e w i t h M a ry, and whoever the artist was o n n u m b e r 3 , I do like -- that is a powerful d e p i c t i o n o f t h e Eagle there. M S . L A NNIN: M R . U R AM: R e v e r s e n u m b e r 3. Reverse. Reverse. I’m sorry. I just hope the artist does b r i n g i t b a c k b ecause I agree, I think it is g o i n g t o b e a s uccessful runner up here. S p e a k i ng to number 1, I agree. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 I Capital Reporting Company 145 t h i n k t h a t i s g oing to make a tremendous r e v e r s e a s i t r elates to the medal side there s e e i n g h o w t h e lift would be for the Eagle. T h a n k you, Mr. Chairman. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you, Tom. Robert? M R . H O GE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I w a s i m p r e s s e d w ith the high quality of beauty o f m a n y o f t h e s e designs. I think it is a p l e a s u r e t o h a v e had a chance to study them. I p a r t icularly thought that number 2 o f t h e o b v e r s e s was very striking. I liked t h e u s e o f “ L i b erty” on the headband, which t i e s b a c k t o s o me earlier issues, but this is a v e r y m o d e r n l ooking Liberty. h a v e a l i t t l e b it of a problem. The neck does I think this i s a n i c e s t r o n g image. N u m b e r 3 is very attractive, but like m a n y o f t h e i m a ges we are reviewing here, this i s p r o b a b l y a n example of something done by an a r t i s t a c c u s t o m ed to working in two dimensions r a t h e r t h a n a s culptor. We see so much of (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 146 t h i s o v e r u s e o f grayscale, and I think that i s s o m e w h a t p r o blematical. N u m b e r 11 I think is an extremely b e a u t i f u l p i e c e and probably that would be my favorite, too. I do have a little bit of a p r o b l e m w i t h t h e use of the relief that would b e n e c e s s a r y t o show the flag in its proper detail. W e a r e talking about this as though i t i s a v e r t i c a l image but it is really not. I t i s s o m e t h i n g that is both central and s k e w e d t o t h e r ight- hand side. M a y b e Don or somebody could comment a b o u t t h i s i n t erms of the relief and use of t h i s d e s i g n w i t h an appropriate reverse. M S . S T AFFORD: Don or Steve, can you m a k e a c o m m e n t on that? M R . E V ERHART: said. I agree with what you I s t i l l think it is basically a v e r t i c a l c o m p o s ition. You could have the flag a s a s e c o n d a r y element as far as high relief. M S . S T AFFORD: Steve, do you have anything to add? (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 147 M R . A N TONUCCI: I agree with Don on that. M R . H O GE: The folds of the flag woul d r e a l l y n o t b e d istinguished very much? M R . E V ERHART: Yes, but they are stil l v e r t i c a l f o r t h e most part. M R . H O GE: Okay. t o o , f a v o r n u m b er 1. it. On the reverse, I, I like the depiction of I t h i n k w e should be careful in use of t h e E a g l e h e a d s in those final designs, like 14 and 15. T h e y are somewhat reminiscent of E l i z a b e t h J o n e s ’ Olympic Dollar in 1983. That w a s t h e h e a d s i de on the Olympic Dollar. I t h i n k p r o b a b l y we should reject that sort of thing. W e h a v e a number of beautiful designs here. I t h i n k we really can’t go wrong. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you, Robert. W e h a v e h a d a g ood discussion. time right now. We are over If you haven’t passed in your s c o r i n g s h e e t y et, I would ask you to do that. W h a t i s the pleasure of the committee ? (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 148 I s e n s e t h e r e m ay be a few motions to adjust o u r r e c o m m e n d e d designs. Is that something y o u w a n t t o d e a l with now or do you want to break for lunch? M S . W A STWEET: I think we should brea k for lunch. M R . M O RAN: Why don’t we have lunch a n d t a l k a b o u t it over lunch. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Okay. What we will d o i s t h e a g e n d a says we are coming back at 1:15. L e t ’ s m a ke that 1:30. I will remind t h e c o m m i t t e e m embers and the staff that d u r i n g l u n c h w e are going to have the r e m a i n d e r o f o u r administrative meeting upstairs. W e w ould like to get on with that a n d t h e n c o m e b ack down here at 1:30. I think w i t h t h e i t e m s that we have on the agenda this a f t e r n o o n w e a r e going to make it within the f i n i s h t i m e o f 4:15. I w a n t to thank everyone for a t r e m e n d o u s j o b with this program. their homework. Folks did I want to thank the staff for (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 149 a l l t h e w o n d e r f ul work you did to prepare the p a c k e t a n d f o r the artists and the hard work t h e y p u t i n t o t his, and all the administrative a n d t e c h n i c a l p eople whose work on this p r o j e c t i s o n g o ing. I w i l l ask that Michael Bugeja send h i s s c o r e s t o E rik via e- mail. D R . B U GEJA: Thanks, Gary. C H A I R M AN MARKS: With that, we will b r e a k f o r l u n c h and be back promptly at 1:30. Thanks. W e a r e in recess. ( A l u n cheon recess was taken.) (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 150 A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N (1:39 p.m. ) R E PORT BACK ON SCORING C H A I R M AN MARKS: Back on the record. T h e f i r s t i t e m , I want to report back to you o n t h e r e s u l t s of our scoring for the 2015 L i b e r t y G o l d C o in and Silver Medal. We have a b i t o f a f i r s t here to report. T h i s i s a first time in a program tha t i n v o l v e s a s i n g le obverse image and a single r e v e r s e i m a g e t hat we have an unanimous scoring on both. There are ten members here w i t h a m a x i m u m of three votes for each design. W h a t t h a t m e a n s is for the selected designs, e v e r y m e m b e r g a ve the design his or her top score. I w i l l report the individual numbers now. O n t h e o b verse, for design number 1, it received two. Design number 2 received five. D e s i g n n u m b e r 3 received six. I will be s k i p p i n g o v e r t hose that were culled out before. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 151 D e s i g n 7 received six. r e c e i v e d a p e r f ect score of 30. 12 received one. two. Design 11 Design number Design number 21 received T h a t i s t he obverse. O n t h e reverse, design number 1 r e c e i v e d a p e r f ect score of 30. 3 r e c e i v e d e i g h t points. received one. Design number Design number 9 Culled design number 10 received one. M R . J A NSEN: Actually, reinstated. M S . W A STWEET: C H A I R M AN MARKS: correct myself. It was put back in. Reinstated. Design number 10, without e d i t o r i a l c o m m e nt, received one. received three. I Design 14 That is it on the reverse. A p r e t t y p o w e r f u l statement I would say. W e l e a ve those scores in your trustin g hands. I w i l l be preparing the letter to the S e c r e t a r y v e r y soon. I ’ m a s suming there may be some motion s a s a f o l l o w u p to the now recommended designs. L e t ’ s d o t h i s i n an orderly fashion. If you (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 152 h a v e i t e m s t o d iscuss concerning the obverse, w h i c h w o u l d b e 11, let’s have that discussion now. A r e t h e r e any comments? Tom? M O T I O N M R . U R AM: Mr. Chairman, I’d just lik e t o m a k e t h e m o t ion that based on the fact Don s a i d i t w o u l d b e possible, to reduce “2015” in s m a l l e r f o n t a n d place horizontally “In God We T r u s t ” o n t h e l eft side freeing up the right. C H A I R M AN MARKS: M R . U R AM: Restate that, please . I’d like to reduce the siz e o f “ 2 0 1 5 ” a n d p lace horizontally “In God We T r u s t ” o n t h e l eft side. C H A I R M AN MARKS: “In God We Trust” w o u l d b e o n l y f or the Gold Coin. M R . U R AM: Correct. C H A I R M AN MARKS: m o t i o n , c o m m i t t ee. M S . L A NNIN: Is there a second? I’ll second. C H A I R M AN MARKS: seconded. You have heard the It has been moved an d I s t here discussion? D R . B U GEJA: Gary, I’d like to hear (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 153 the reasons why. Thank you. C H A I R M AN MARKS: M R . U R AM: Go ahead. He’s asking why. My t h o u g h t i s i t j ust frees up and makes it more l o o k l i k e t h e m edal when it is the coin, and b a s e d o n w h a t M ike’s thoughts are, and he m i g h t b e m a k i n g a motion regarding the staff a n d t h e p o l e , a nd just some of the comments t h a t w e r e m a d e on the “We” being in the field o f s o m e o f t h e design. By reducing this and p l a c i n g i t o v e r there, I think it would give t h e c o i n i t s e l f a truer flowing from left to right there. D R . B U GEJA: Are you talking about p u t t i n g “ 2 0 1 5 ” on the right side? M R . U R AM: No, “2015” would stay wher e i t i s e x c e p t i n a smaller font, and then “In G o d W e T r u s t ” h orizontally below it in smaller font as well. M R . J A NSEN: Horizontally, one or two lines? M R . U R AM: Two lines. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 154 M R . M O RAN: Gary, can I follow up on t h e c o m m e n t a b o ut the staff? C H A I R M AN MARKS: Let’s handle this first. M R . M O RAN: It involves this. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Then please, go ahead. M R . M O RAN: First of all, I think it l o o k s g o o d t o s tack those three lines there, t h e d a t e , a n d “ In God We Trust.” Secondly, I h a d n o i n t e n t i o ns of making any motions on the s t a f f b e c a u s e n obody supported it. That is n o t a n i s s u e h e re. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Okay. The motion is t o r e d u c e t h e f ont of “2015,” stack “In God We Trust.” L e t m e ask a question for probably o n e o f t h e g u y s in Philadelphia. If we do t h a t , a l o t o f that bears on the Gold Coin, w o u l d w e n e e d t o reduce the date on the Silver Medal? M S . W A STWEET: No. M R . E V ERHART: No. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 155 M R . A N TONUCCI: C H A I R M AN MARKS: I don’t think so. We’re talking about a m o t i o n t h a t d e a ls only with the Gold Coin. w a n t e d t o c l a r i fy that. M R . U R AM: I Right, Tom? That’s correct. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Does everyone u n d e r s t a n d t h e motion? M S . W A STWEET: C H A I R M AN MARKS: M S . W A STWEET: I have a comment. Go ahead, please. I would rather leave t h a t m o t i o n m o r e open to instead of directing e x a c t l y w h e r e a nd how and what size to simply g i v e f r e e r e i g n s to the Mint to rearrange the t e x t i n a m o r e pleasing fashion based on our e a r l i e r c o m m e n t s in the meeting. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Okay. We do have a m o t i o n o n t h e t able, and unless the author of t h a t m o t i o n m a k es a change to it and the s e c o n d a g r e e s , we do need to act on that motion. M R . U R AM: I think it is to their d i s c r e t i o n a s f ar as the size and the font, as (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 156 l o n g a s i t i s o n that side and stacked. C H A I R M AN MARKS: So, it sounds like y o u s t i l l w a n t your motion. ( L a u g h ter.) M R . U R AM: Yes. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Let’s act on it. i t p a s s e s , f i n e , we will move on. If If it d o e s n ’ t , m a y b e Heidi would want to volunteer a motion. W i t h t hat, is there any further discussion? M R . J A NSEN: Just state the motion c l e a r l y i n t e r m s of discretion, nondiscretion. M R . U R AM: The motion is to stack “ 2 0 1 5 ” a n d “ I n God We Trust” on the left side w i t h t h e d i s c r e tion of the font being in the s a m e f a s h i o n a s “Liberty” is or however the e n g r a v e r a n d t h e Mint feels would be suitable. M R . J A NSEN: So, there is a discretio n there. M R . U R AM: I will put that in there, y e s , a s l o n g a s it is stated it is stacked. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 157 C H A I R M AN MARKS: I read that to mean j u s t m a k e i t l o ok good. M R . U R AM: looks good now. Make it look good. It There is nothing wrong with t h e f o n t a s i t is now, just reduced in size. M R . J A NSEN: May I read back a r e p r e s e n t a t i o n of your intent? To modify w i t h i n t h e M i n t ’s artist’s discretion, the s e l e c t e d o b v e r s e HR- O-11, Gold version only, t o r e d u c e t h e f ont size on the date and to p l a c e “ I n G o d W e Trust” horizontally on the l e f t s i d e i n t w o lines below the date. Silver v e r s i o n r e m a i n s essentially unaffected. M R . U R AM: Correct. C H A I R M AN MARKS: now. We all understand I ’ m g o i n g to call the question. All t h o s e i n f a v o r of the motion, please raise your hand. (S h o w of hands.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Seven. All those opposed? (S h o w of hands.) (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 158 C H A I R M AN MARKS: D R . B U GEJA: Two. Motion carries . Opposed. C H A I R M AN MARKS: I’m sorry. Michael, w h a t i s y o u r v o te? D R . B U GEJA: No. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Three opposed, seven f o r , m o t i o n c a r ries. O t h e r motions? If you have another o n e f o r t h e o b v erse, let’s deal with that. If n o t , I w a n t t o go onto the reverse. ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: reverse, please. Let’s go to the Is there a motion addressing a n y t h i n g a b o u t the reverse? M O T I O N M R . M O RAN: I move we trim the lower b r a n c h o f f t h e olive. C H A I R M AN MARKS: M R . J A NSEN: Second. Discussion? C H A I R M AN MARKS: It’s coming. M i c h a e l , w o u l d you address your motion, please? (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 159 M R . M O RAN: I think it is obvious it n e e d s t o g o , i t also complicates the Gold C o i n , a n d I t h i nk that was the reason why the E a g l e w a s l e f t in the position it was on the Gold Coin. I f you remove that lower sprig, c h o p i t o f f r i g ht there at the fork, you will h a v e r o o m t o m a ke the Eagle rise without any problem at all. It doesn’t hurt the design. I n f a c t , i t c l e ars up the field, and let’s do it. C H A I R M AN MARKS: As the second, I a g r e e w i t h M i c h ael’s position. M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: that. Jeanne? I have to modify I d o n ’ t like the fact that we are going t o p r u n e t h a t o live branch way down where it c o m e s o u t o f t h e main branch. I think we can l e a v e a f e w o f those leaves, to give some i n t e g r i t y t o w h at the artist was trying to present to us. I think it will still free up t h a t f i e l d b u t it will not look like a plain old stick. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Do you agree that (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 160 s o m e o f i t n e e d s to be trimmed? M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: Some of it may n e e d t o b e t r i m med but not all of it. I think not all of it. C H A I R M AN MARKS: I don’t think the m o t i o n i s t o t r im all of it. M R . M O RAN: I don’t think it was and I ’ d b e w i l l i n g to amend it to accommodate Jeanne. M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you. How about to r e c o m m e n d t h e a rtist use discretion to trim t h e o l i v e b r a n c h? M R . M O RAN: In a manner that allows t h e E a g l e t o e a sily rise on the Gold Coin. C H A I R M AN MARKS: agreeable? Okay. Is that W e have laid it to the discretion of the artist. M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: Yes, I think so. I d o n ’ t t h i n k t hat is the only thing that is g o i n g t o m a k e t hat Eagle rise. C H A I R M AN MARKS: But this is the (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 161 m o t i o n t h a t i s on the table. M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: C H A I R M AN MARKS: one after this? Correct. Do you have another Think about it. We have a m o t i o n o n t h e t able for an olive branch -sorry. ( L a u g h ter.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: t h r o u g h t h i s , g uys. it. I want to move us I don’t want to belabor A r e w e r e a dy to act on this? Do we u n d e r s t a n d w h a t we are saying is we want to r e d u c e t h i s o l i ve branch and we want to ask t h e a r t i s t s t o do it as they think would be best. Correct? M R . M O RAN: Correct. C H A I R M AN MARKS: All those in favor, raise your hand. ( S h o w of hands.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: D R . B U GEJA: Michael? Aye. C H A I R M AN MARKS: I believe that is an unanimous vote. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 162 M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: one question? Can I ask just I’m so confused right now. I t h i n k w e a r e o n ly talking about the medal b e c a u s e t h e d e s ign on the medal is going to be t h e d e s i g n o n t he coin; correct? M S . S T AFFORD: You will see that Eagl e d e p i c t e d i n t h e medal design depicted in the coin design. M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you. With my personal p r e s e n c e o n s o c ial media, I was having d i s c u s s i o n s w i t h collectors this past week. W h e n t h e y s a w w hat the CFA had done with p i c k i n g t w o d e s igns for both obverse and r e v e r s e , t h e r e was a jump to a conclusion that m e a n t t h e r e w e r e two different designs, one f o r t h e G o l d C o in and one for the Silver Medal. F o r t h e members of the press who are e i t h e r h e r e i n the room or on the telephone, I w a n t e d t o c l a r i fy that there is one set of d e s i g n s , o b v e r s e and reverse, and they will (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 163 b o t h a p p e a r o n both the medal and Gold Coin. E n o u g h said about that. Are there o t h e r m o t i o n s a ddressing the reverse? M R . H O GE: Robert? I believe we discussed c h a n g i n g t h e i n scription to “One Union $100.” C H A I R M AN MARKS: Absolutely we did. T h a t i s a m o t i o n from Robert to change $75 to - - a c t u a l l y , w e already did that. M R . W E INMAN: It’s covered in your p r e v i o u s m o t i o n s when you began the discussion. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Yes. I think we can dispose of that. M R . H O GE: That’s fine. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Is there anything else? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: All right. We are done, folks. M R . M O RAN: Can we congratulate o u r s e l v e s f o r j ob well done here? (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 164 ( A p p l a use.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: It was a team effort . I ’ l l j u s t l e a v e it at that. awesome. You guys are T h a n k you. R E V I E W A N D D I S CUSSION OF CANDIDATE DESIGNS FOR T H E J A C K N I C KLAUS CONGRESSIONAL GOLD MEDAL C H A I R M AN MARKS: Moving on now to r e v i e w a n d d i s c ussion of candidate designs for t h e J a c k N i c k l a us Congressional Gold Medal. April? M S . S T AFFORD: Thank you. Public Law 1 1 3 -2 1 0 a u t h o r i zes a Congressional Gold Medal t o J a c k N i c k l a u s in recognition of his service t o t h e n a t i o n i n promoting excellence, good s p o r t s m a n s h i p , and philanthropy. A s d e s cribed in the findings of the l e g i s l a t i o n , J a ck Nicklaus is a successful b u s i n e s s e x e c u t ive, a prominent advertising s p o k e s m a n , a p a ssionate and dedicated p h i l a n t h r o p i s t , and a devoted husband, father, and grandfather. H e h a s amassed 120 victories in (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 165 p r o f e s s i o n a l c o mpetition of national and i n t e r n a t i o n a l s tatue, 73 of which were on the P r o f e s s i o n a l G o lf Association Tour. His 18 p r o f e s s i o n a l m a jors, the first of which he won a t t h e 1 9 6 2 U . S . Open, remain the standard by w h i c h a l l g o l f e rs are measured. M r . N i cklaus is a recipient of the P r e s i d e n t i a l M e dal of Freedom and other a w a r d s , s u c h a s the Individual Male Athlete of t h e C e n t u r y b y Sports Illustrated, one of 10 g r e a t e s t a t h l e t es of the century by ESPN, G o l f e r o f t h e M illennium, Mohammad Ali Sports L e g e n d A w a r d , t he ESPY Lifetime Achievement A w a r d , a n d t h e Vince Lombardi Award of Excellence. H e h a s received the PGA Player of the Y e a r A w a r d f i v e times and was inducted into t h e W o r l d o f G o lf Hall of Fame at the age of 34. M r . N i cklaus remains a tireless p h i l a n t h r o p i s t who has made a life long c o m m i t m e n t t o a myriad of charities, most of (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 166 w h i c h s u p p o r t p ediatric health care. T o d a y , we are lucky to have with us S c o t t T o l l e y , V ice President of Nicklaus C o r p o r a t e C o m m u nications, and our liaison to t h i s m e d a l p r o g ram. Scott, would you like to a d d r e s s t h e c o m mittee? M R . T O LLEY: I just want to thank you f o r a l l o w i n g m e to participate today. M S . S T AFFORD: here. Thank you for being W e w i l l move on to the obverse and reverse designs. Today we have five obverse d e s i g n s f o r c o n sideration, all feature a p o r t r a i t o f J a c k Nicklaus, his signature, and i n s c r i p t i o n s n o ting his professional victories. O b v e r s es 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. o b v e r s e s 1 , 2 , 3, 4. preference. recommended. Here are This is Mr. Nicklaus’ I t was also the one the CFA F ive. M o v i n g on to the reverse designs, we h a v e f o u r f o r r eview. Reverse 1 depicts l a u r e l l e a v e s , golf clubs, and six stars to (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 167 r e p r e s e n t M r . N icklaus’ wife and children. It i s i n s c r i b e d w i th “Passionate and Dedicated P h i l a n t h r o p i s t to Charitable Causes, “Children a r e t h e R o o t o f the Heart,” and “Act of Congress 2014.” R e v e r s e 2, which is preferred by Mr. N i c k l a u s a s w e l l as the CFA’s preference, d e p i c t s l a u r e l leaves and six stars. It is i n s c r i b e d “ E x c e llence in Sport,” “Promoting I n t e g r i t y a n d S portsmanship,” and “Dedicated t o P h i l a n t h r o p y and Children’s Health Care w i t h a L i f e L o n g Commitment to Family,” and “ A c t o f C o n g r e s s 2014.” R e v e r s e 3 depicts laurel leaves and s i x s t a r s a n d i s inscribed “Children are the R o o t o f t h e H e a rt” and “Act of Congress 2014.” F i n a l l y, Reverse 4 depicts a hand s u p p o r t i n g h e a r ts, which is symbolic of Mr. N i c k l a u s ’ c o m m i tment to family, children’s h e a l t h c a r e , a n d philanthropy. It is i n s c r i b e d “ S p o r tsmanship, Excellence, P h i l a n t h r o p y , ” “Children are the Root of the (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 168 H e a r t , ” a n d “ A c t of Congress 2014.” T h a t c oncludes the presentation, Mr. Chairman. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you, April. G i v e n t h a t w e o nly have five obverse designs a n d f o u r r e v e r s e designs, I will dispense with t h e c u l l i n g p r o cess. Before we get into our d i s c u s s i o n s , I ’ d like to ask members if you h a v e a n y q u e s t i ons of a technical nature, if y o u w o u l d a s k t hose now. Jeanne? M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: Are we just d e a l i n g w i t h o b verse or the whole -C H A I R M AN MARKS: The whole thing. M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: April, the l e a v e s o n r e v e r se 2 are? M S . S T AFFORD: Laurel leaves. M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: Laurel leaves. I t h i n k t h o s e m ight be olive leaves. M S . S T AFFORD: Our description says laurel leaves. M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: there. We have berries I t h i n k the laurel leaves are more (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 169 l i k e w h a t i s o n reverse 1. M S . S T AFFORD: that. We will check into T h a n k y o u. M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you. Any other technical q u e s t i o n s t h a t do not bear on your assessment o f t h e d e s i g n s but questions you want to have c l e a r e d b e f o r e we get into our design discussion? M S . S T AFFORD: I should add the C o m m i s s i o n o n F ine Arts made one strong r e c o m m e n d a t i o n along with obverse and reverse t h e y p r e f e r , a n d that is that the obverse and r e v e r s e f o n t b e uniform. They also noted that t h e o b v e r s e m i g ht benefit from incorporation o f l a n d s c a p e a s is depicted in obverse 2, I b e l i e v e , b u t I know our lead sculptor engraver t h o u g h t t h a t w o uld crowd the obverse. M r . T o lley, while the committee d i s c u s s e s t h e d esigns, if you don’t mind m u t i n g y o u r p h o ne, that would be great. M R . T O LLEY: Yes, I’m happy to do (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 170 that. A r e t h e r e any questions on why Mr. N i c k l a u s a n d h i s wife chose some of the design e l e m e n t s , d o n ’ t hesitate to ask. M S . S T AFFORD: Okay, thank you, we will do. C H A I R M AN MARKS: We will move into ou r d i s c u s s i o n o n t he designs. Is there someone w h o w o u l d l i k e to lead off? M S . L A NNIN: Mary? I have a question. I’m a r e f o r m e d g o l f e r , which means I don’t do this stuff any more. ( L a u g h ter.) M S . L A NNIN: As I understand it, from w h a t I w a s t o l d my swing did not look like, in o b v e r s e n u m b e r 1, I think that is the correct f i n i s h f o r a g o lf swing. All the rest of the r e v e r s e s , h e ’ s way too far back, but he won t h e c h a m p i o n s h i ps, I didn’t. bring that up. I just wanted to In number 4, the one that he w a n t s , w h i c h I also like, I can see where the c l u b i s d r o p p e d down to make room for the e p i g r a p h y , b u t it’s just a question of correct (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 171 g o l f s w i n g , a n d that’s it. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Okay. Let’s go to Herman. D R . V I OLA: By coincidence, there was a n h o u r s p e c i a l documentary on Jack Nicklaus t h i s w e e k e n d w h ich I watched. for two years. I was a caddy I found the whole thing very i m p r e s s i v e a n d I can see why he merits a medal. I w o u l d just say we should go with hi s p r e f e r e n c e , a n d if he saw this design and he l i k e s t h e w a y t he swing looks, he can have it. ( L a u g h ter.) D R . V I OLA: championships. He’s won all these I’d say let’s go with his p r e f e r e n c e s , a n d job well done. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you, Herman. Jeanne? M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: I think number 4 , w h i c h i s M r . Nicklaus’ choice, is also my choice. I l o v e the way the arms, whether they a r e i n t h e r i g h t position or not, circle that (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 172 medal. I t h i n k it makes it quite an embracing piece. T h e l a ndscape in the back, I have to a g r e e , w o u l d j u st be too much. I think it is w h a t i s n o t s o great about number 2 and number 1. I t ’ s j u s t t oo much information. The power o f h i s s w i n g , I think, is really in number 4. C o n g r a t u l a t i o n s on executing that. C H A I R M AN MARKS: M R . U R AM: Tom? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I w o u l d e c h o t h e same, I feel the same way, if h e s t r o n g l y f e e ls that is the right image and t h a t i s w h a t h e likes. The only comment I w o u l d h a v e i s n umber 3 looks like he’s looking a t t h e s h o t w h e re he hit the golf ball. I t h i n k w h a t b o t h ers me a little bit about n u m b e r 4 i s m a y be the way the head is placed t h e r e , a n d I c a n’t see him, like what Mary was s a y i n g , w e g o t the club going one way and his h e a d a n d e y e s g oing another way. If you look a t n u m b e r 3 , e v erything is -- even number 1 a n d t h e o t h e r o nes, they are all looking at (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 173 the shot. T h i s just needs a little positioning. I don’t know if it’s an issue or not. I w o u l d tend to go along with their d e c i s i o n , b u t e ither the eyes or the head or s o m e t h i n g i s j u st not following through. I w i l l g o w i t h t h e wishes of the committee on that. T h a n k y o u. C H A I R M AN MARKS: M R . H O GE: fine. Thank you. Robert? I think the selections are I w o u l d be in accord with them. I n o t i c e t h e r e i s some question about what would b e t h e i n s c r i p t ions. In fact, when I was t r y i n g t o r e s e a rch him on the Internet, I f o u n d d i s c r e p a n cies in the number of victories o r p r o f e s s i o n a l championships or whatever. s e e m s a l i t t l e bit redundant to have these t h i n g s a n d a l s o confusing, saying 120 p r o f e s s i o n a l v i ctories, worldwide record, 18 m a j o r v i c t o r i e s worldwide. J u s t w hat the wording is I think we s h o u l d p r o b a b l y look into a little bit. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 The It Capital Reporting Company 174 n u m b e r s d i d n ’ t seem to be exactly correct e i t h e r n e c e s s a r ily. M S . S T AFFORD: Mr. Tolley, would you c a r e t o a d d r e s s that, the specific question r e g a r d i n g 1 2 0 p rofessional victories and 18 m a j o r c h a m p i o n s hips, the inscription on the obverse? M R . T O LLEY: i n t o t o o m u c h d etail. Sure. I hope I don’t ge t The 120 represents all v i c t o r i e s , i n c l uding the major championships. T h o s e w h o k n o w a little bit about golf, each y e a r t h e r e a r e four major championships at a p r o f e s s i o n a l l e vel, the Master Tournament, the U . S . O p e n , t h e British Open, and PBA Championship. J a c k h as the record. That record is w h a t h e i s m o s t synonymous with. That is why w e f e l t i t w a s important to put the 18 major. T h e 1 2 0 w a s j u s t to put in context how many t i m e s h e w o n w o rldwide over his career. M S . S T AFFORD: Did you want to commen t o n t h e s w i n g , t he position of the hands on (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 175 obverse 4? M R . T O LLEY: Sure. That was very i m p r e s s i v e f o r someone to bring that up. The d e s i g n i s b a s e d on a photo that the Nicklaus’ c h o s e w h e n t h e y were trying to find an a p p r o p r i a t e s h o t. They wanted something that w a s s o r t o f a t ight torso shot, and it was a s h o t f r o m a 1 9 7 8 British Open. I a c t u ally called it up on my screen w h e n y o u w e r e d iscussing it. It looked like t h e d e s i g n e r d i d a very fine job in capturing t h e p o s i t i o n o f the hands, the club, and even head position. I w i s h we had the ability to show tha t i m a g e j u s t s o t he committee would see if they a g r e e t h a t t h e design captured that. M S . S T AFFORD: We appreciate that. Thank you. M R . H O GE: One further comment. We s e e a l i t t l e b i t of what we have sometimes d e s c r i b e d a s “ s paghetti hair” here. In the i m a g e s o f J a c k Nicklaus that I’ve noticed on (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 176 t h e I n t e r n e t , h is hair didn’t really look like that. I t w a s s ort of smoother and finer looking. M R . T O LLEY: Can I make a comment on that? M R . H O GE: Yes. M R . T O LLEY: That was probably one of t h e m o s t s i g n i f icant issues during the design process. M r . N icklaus seemed to have some p r o b l e m s w i t h t he hair. He wanted to see if i t c o u l d b e s m o othed out. I think they tried t o m a k e s o m e e f fort, but I think they were at t h e p o i n t w h e r e he said okay, that’s fine. E v e n i f you look at the image the d e s i g n e r u s e d f or inspiration, the hair is f i n e r , s m o o t h e r , and he doesn’t have quite the w a v e i n t h e f r o nt. After a couple of a t t e m p t s , M r . N icklaus didn’t want to push the issue. M S . S T AFFORD: Can we go to our lead s c u l p t o r e n g r a v er, Don Everhart? Don, can you c o m m e n t o n t h a t , if we could do some further (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 177 t w e a k i n g t o f i n esse that? M R . E V ERHART: Yes, that can be taken c a r e o f i n t h e sculpture. problem. It’s not really a S c u l p tors have rakes that have teeth i n t h e m a n d t h e y can draw them over and s i m u l a t e h a i r i n a much finer texture. M S . S T AFFORD: What we are really s e e i n g h e r e i s the difference between two d i m e n s i o n s a n d what can be translated into three. M R . E V ERHART: I think also with what w e u s e , s u c h a s plaster, you can only get a c e r t a i n f i n e l i ne out of it or it will break, s o y o u h a v e t o have some kind of substantial l i n e , e v e n i n a strand of hair. It will break o f f , i t d o e s n ’ t work if it is too thin. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Robert, do you have anything more? M R . H O GE: No. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Mary, did you have a question? M S . L A NNIN: Sort of, one more commen t (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 178 a b o u t t h e r e v e r se. 2. He prefers reverse number I a c t u a l l y really like the crossed golf c l u b s a t t h e b o ttom of number 1. We never w o u l d h a v e h e a r d of Jack Nicklaus unless he w a s r e a l l y g o o d at that; right? Is there a w a y w e c a n c o m b ine the best elements of number 2 , w h i c h i s p r o bably that wording, and do the g o l f c l u b s s o m e how? M R . M O RAN: I would suggest if that i s s o m e t h i n g w e w a nt to recommend, once we have t h e a p p r o v e d t h e designs we revisit like we j u s t d i d w i t h t he other program, consider a m o t i o n a n d p r o c eed from there. M S . L A NNIN: Okay. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you, Mary. L e t ’ s g o t o M i c hael Bugeja on the phone. D R . B U GEJA: much to say. Yes, Gary. I don’t have O n the obverse, I liked 3 and 4. I c o u l d n ’ t d i s c ern which I liked more. They b o t h h a v e i n t e r esting design features. I l i k e d t h e c o m m e nt that in 3, there is the gaze a t w h e r e t h e b a ll went. Number 4 comes across (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 179 m o s t l y a s a p o r trait. I’m inclined to go with t h e p r e f e r r e d d esigns, 4 and 2. That’s all I have, Gary. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you, Michael. I w i l l g o t o M i chael Moran. M R . M O RAN: for Mr. Tolley. First, I have a question I’d like to ask the reasoning f o r s e l e c t i o n o f design number 2, how strong t h e f a m i l y w a s towards that. a r t i s b e t t e r o n 3 and 4. I feel like the I have a personal d i s l i k e o f i n s c riptions. C o u l d you comment on that, please? M R . T O LLEY: It came down to really t h e y f e l t l i k e the image in 4 just looked more like him. M R . M O RAN: I’m sorry, the reverse. I ’ m f i n d o n n u m ber 4 on the obverse. On the r e v e r s e , y o u h a ve that long inscription there. T h e r e i s n o t m u ch art to it. You go right to t h e t h i r d o n e w ith the star and heart, and f r o m a n a r t i s t i c point of view, it’s good. j u s t w a n t e d t o know the strength of the (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 I Capital Reporting Company 180 f a m i l y ’ s f e e l i n gs about number 2 compared to 3. M R . T O LLEY: They feel like he’s bein g h o n o r e d w i t h s u ch a great recognition and it i s b e c a u s e o f a career or life that certainly t r a n s c e n d e d w h a t he did with golf. When we w e r e d e s i g n i n g this, I guess we didn’t know e x a c t l y h o w t h e process worked. We sort of j u m p e d i n t o i t and then we learned a lot about h a v i n g t o f o l l o w really the letter of the legislation. S o m e o f the elements they really w a n t e d t o c a p t u re on the reverse side were his p r i o r i t y , w h i c h is his family, that life long commitment. H e ’s someone that is well known f o r o b v i o u s l y a chieving success without f o r e g o i n g t h e f amily concept. He has a wife o f a l m o s t 5 5 y e ars, five children and 22 grandchildren. H e w a s never on the road for more tha n t w o w e e k s b e c a u se he didn’t want his kids to g r o w u p n o t k n o wing who their father was. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 181 F a m i l y w a s a n i mportant element. That is why w h e n w e l e a r n e d we couldn’t have any images r e l a t e d t o h i s wife or kids, we chose the s t a r s , w h i c h t h e five stars at the top r e p r e s e n t h i s c hildren, and the larger s i n g u l a r s t a r a t the bottom represents his wife. T h e l a urels on the side, at one point , h e w a n t e d t h e l ogo of his two home clubs, his F l o r i d a h o m e c l ub and his Ohio home club. He i s w e l l k n o w n a s being a native of Ohio but he s p e n t t h e m a j o r ity of his life now in Florida. B o t h t h o s e c l u b logos have as the foundation o f t h e i r d e s i g n laurel leaves. A s f a r as the text, he is a true sportsman. H e has always been known as such a n a b o v e b o a r d honest man, promotes integrity. O b v i o u s l y , i t m entions his commitment to p h i l a n t h r o p y , m ostly pediatric health care. A s I m e n t i o n e d earlier, his life long c o m m i t m e n t t o f amily. T h a t w as a mouthful. I hope I began (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 182 t o a n s w e r y o u r question. M R . M O RAN: That is the issue. It’s a m o u t h f u l w h e n y ou look at it on the back of the medal, too. When you go to number 3, and I ’ m n o t t r y i n g to convince you of anything h e r e , t h e s y m b o lism here seems to say the same t h i n g w i t h o u t t he clutter of all the words. Y o u h a ve the laurel sprigs. You have t h e b i g s t a r , t he five stars for the children, a n d t h e h e a r t o f his philosophy in terms of c h i l d r e n a r e t h e root of the heart. L i k e I said, I’m not going to belabor the issue. I f he wants number 2, he has it. M R . T O LLEY: “The Children are the R o o t o f t h e H e a rt” is actually his wife’s quote. I t i s o ne that is used often in some l i t e r a t u r e t a l k ing about the Nicklaus C h i l d r e n ’ s H e a l th Care Foundation. It is p r o b a b l y h e r f a vorite line, as he pointed out, i t ’ s h i s w i f e ’ s quote, and he felt like he w o u l d b e s t e a l i ng it. It’s not a short catch a l l q u o t e t h a t we can contribute to him. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 183 T h a t ’ s w h y w e s teered away from that one. M R . M O RAN: Okay. I think that has p r e t t y w e l l s e t tled me in terms of what I’m going to do. I don’t have anything more to add. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you, Michael. W e w i l l g o t o H eidi. M S . W A STWEET: I would like to commen d t h e o b v e r s e d e s ign number 4. I think it is t h e b e s t c h o i c e and I think it really focuses o n h i m a s a h u m an because it focuses in on his f a c e a n d d e e m p h asizes the golf, while the golf e l e m e n t i s s t i l l there. It’s a terrific balance. T h e h a ir, I agree, can be softened in t h e s c u l p t u r e s tage, and also we are looking a t t h i s a t a v e ry large scale on our page and o n o u r s c r e e n , and when it is reduced down to t h e s i z e o f a c oin, it will actually look a little softer. F o r t h e reverse, I like that they c h o s e t h e o n e w ithout the golf clubs. Again, (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 184 i t p u l l s e m p h a s is away from the single d i m e n s i o n o f h i m as a sportsman and speaks m o r e t o t h e m u l tiple dimensions of his life. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you, Heidi. We will go to Erik. M R . J A NSEN: My only thought is I t h i n k t h e N i c k l aus camp wanted to harmonize the fonts. T o the extent I like fonts at all, I l i k e t h e f o n t s on the reverse to replace the f o n t o n t h e o b v erse. That’s all I have. C H A I R M AN MARKS: I’ll be brief. I b e l i e v e o b v e r s e number 4 is the obvious choice. I t ’ s a good example of what we are t a l k i n g a b o u t w hen we talk about a modern d e s i g n a n d h i s body motion is put in course w i t h t h e r o u n d n ess, if you will, of the medal. I j u s t l i k e t h e way it flows. attractive. It’s I t ’s a good example of what we h a v e t a l k e d a b o ut, about modern design. O n t h e reverse, I think Jack Nicklaus g e t s w h a t J a c k Nicklaus wants. However, I w i l l j u s t m a k e a comment that I think reverse (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 185 n u m b e r 2 , t h e o ne with stars, is a wonderful design. I t h i n k it’s a wonderful tribute to h i s f a m i l y t h a t he would represent them as stars. I f I w a s his wife, I would feel h o n o r e d t h a t h e had put my quote on his C o n g r e s s i o n a l G old Medal. H o w e v e r, that is his choice to make. I j u s t w a n t t o commend the artist for number 3. T h a t w o u l d be my preference but I’m going t o s u p p o r t M r . Nicklaus with his decision for t h e d e s i g n w i t h the text on it. I n d o i ng that, just for future r e f e r e n c e a n d t o be on the record, many of you h a v e h e a r d m e s ay this probably too many t i m e s , b u t a m e dal and a coin, they are not a p l a q u e a n d t h e y are not a book, they are not a l e a f l e t t h a t h a s text on it. If this was a p l a q u e , I w o u l d fully embrace the idea that y o u h a v e t e x t o n it, that is what a plaque is for. A c o i n or medal, I would much prefer t o s e e a r t a n d let art speak for itself (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 186 b e c a u s e I t h i n k it can speak at a level to a h u m a n b e i n g t h a t words often can’t. H o w e v e r, if this is the design that M r . N i c k l a u s w a nts, I will support it. W i t h t hat, I will ask the members to s c o r e t h e i r s h e ets, if they would pass those t o E r i k s o h e c an tally the scores, and we w i l l r e p o r t t h e results of that process as s o o n a s w e h a v e totals. A r e w e ready to move on to the A m e r i c a n E a g l e Platinum Proof? R E V I E W A N D DISCUSSION FOR THE 2017 20TH A N N I V E R S A RY AMERICAN EAGLE PLATINUM B ULLION COIN PROGRAM C H A I R M AN MARKS: 2017 issue. The first item is the T h at would be one that would r e l a t e t o i t s 2 0th anniversary. April, can y o u u p d a t e u s o n this program? M S . S T AFFORD: Sure. The discussion f o r t o d a y c e n t e rs around a potential product, t h e 2 0 1 7 2 0 t h A nniversary One Ounce Platinum Proof Coin. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 187 T o p r o vide some background, 2017 will m a r k t h e 2 0 t h a nniversary of the American E a g l e P l a t i n u m Coin Program. To commemorate t h i s m i l e s t o n e , the United States Mint p r o p o s e s o f f e r i ng an one ounce platinum proof c o i n f e a t u r i n g both a new Liberty obverse d e s i g n a s w e l l as a new Eagle reverse design. P r o p o s ed formats and finishes for thi s c o i n i n c l u d e h i gh relief, reverse proof or e n h a n c e d p r o o f , and if the concept is pursued, t h e U n i t e d S t a t es Mint would seek Secretary of t h e T r e a s u r y a p proval to strike this platinum c o i n u n d e r a u t h ority of 31 USC 5112, Subsection (k). A l i t t le bit about the design history , o f w h i c h I ’ m s u re all the committee members a r e f a m i l i a r w i th, since its debut in 1997, t h e U n i t e d S t a t es Mint’s American Eagle P l a t i n u m P r o o f Coin has featured Lady Liberty o n i t s o b v e r s e as a symbol of vigilance and f a i t h f u l n e s s t o duty. It, of course, was d e s i g n e d a n d s c ulpted by former United States (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 188 M i n t s c u l p t o r e ngraver John Mercanti, and as y o u a l s o k n o w , reverse designs have changed year to year. W i t h t hat, I’d like to open it up to t h e c o m m i t t e e f or discussion. C H A I R M AN MARKS: April, what you are l o o k i n g f o r f r o m us are concepts or ideas that w o u l d b e r e l e v a nt to a 20th anniversary? M S . S T AFFORD: Correct. C H A I R M AN MARKS: For the members of t h e c o m m i t t e e i f you are interested, I have a b o o k h e r e t h a t has illustrations of all the i s s u e s r u n n i n g up until 2012. I think we are f a m i l i a r w i t h t he ones that came after that. W e w e r e i n v o l v e d with them. If you are i n t e r e s t e d i n l ooking at this, just wave at m e , a n d I ’ l l p a ss it down to you. Maybe we w i l l j u s t p a s s it around. I s t h e re a member that wants to lead t h i s d i s c u s s i o n off? M S . S T AFFORD: Chairman. I’m sorry, Mr. O n e of the things that was not (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 189 i n c l u d e d i n t h e background information but I d o r e c a l l h a v i n g with Sales and Marketing that y o u m i g h t w a n t to be aware of as you discuss i t , t h e y a r e l o oking for all sorts of ideas to e n h a n c e s u c h a product, including such things a s p r i v y m a r k s that might feature “20” or o t h e r f e a t u r e s that might make it special and e n h a n c e t h e 2 0 t h anniversary. C H A I R M AN MARKS: I do think the idea o f a p r i v y m a r k to denote 20 years would be a w e l c o m e c o n c e p t that I’m pretty sure the c o m m i t t e e w o u l d like to look at. I’m going to a p p e a l t o m e m b e rs of the committee for other ideas. Heidi? M S . W A STWEET: Just to clarify, you a r e l o o k i n g t o change the design for the a n n i v e r s a r y o r just enhance the existing? M S . S T AFFORD: The proposal on the t a b l e i s t o h a v e a new obverse and a new r e v e r s e f o r t h e program. When we talk about t h e 2 0 1 8 t o 2 0 2 0, it would keep the reverse of t h a t a n d c h a n g e out the obverse. I don’t want (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 190 t o g e t a h e a d o f myself. The 2017 as it is b e i n g p r o p o s e d for discussion would have both o b v e r s e a n d r e v erse with a new design. M S . W A STWEET: Completely new design? M S . S T AFFORD: Yes. Certainly, if th e c o m m i t t e e w a n t e d to look at somehow enhancing t h e o r i g i n a l , t hat could be discussed as well. M S . W A STWEET: To me, it would make m o r e s e n s e t o d o something with Mercanti’s d e s i g n t o h o n o r the 20th anniversary rather t h a n s o m e t h i n g completely new as a specific a n n i v e r s a r y t h i ng. We have just reviewed d e s i g n s w i t h t h e same theme, something about t h i s h a s t o b e different because we just t a l k e d t o d a y a n d chose designs for a Liberty a n d E a g l e c o m b i nation for Gold and Silver. It f e e l s a l i t t l e repetitious. M S . S T AFFORD: Understood. That c e r t a i n l y i s s o mething we would be interested i n h e a r i n g t h e committee comment on. M S . W A STWEET: I will wait and see w h a t t h e o t h e r s say. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 191 C H A I R M AN MARKS: I’m going to weigh i n o n t h a t b u t f i r st, I want to ask Michael B u g e j a t o s e n d his scores for the Jack N i c k l a u s P r o g r a m to Erik. D R . B U GEJA: that right now. I’m so sorry, I will do I apologize. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you. I’m goin g t o t a k e a l i t t l e different direction from what H e i d i j u s t s u g g ested. I really think this is a n o p p o r t u n i t y , especially coming from a c o m m i t t e e t h a t has been very vocal in asking f o r n e w a n d m o d ern designs. a n o p p o r t u n i t y to do that. g o b a c k t o s o m e thing old. I think this is I would rather not We have done that t o o m u c h , I t h i nk. I w o u l d like the opportunity -- I w o n ’ t b e h e r e b y that time, but I would like t h e c o m m i t t e e t o have an opportunity to look a t n e w a n d f r e s h. We have brought on a whole n e w g r o u p o f a r tists through AIP. o f t h e e x a m p l e s they gave us here. We saw some We found s o m e r e a l l y g o o d ones among that collection. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 192 I ’ d l i k e t o d o that again. I d o n ’ t think it is repetitious b e c a u s e i t w i l l be different. That is what we h a v e a s k e d f o r in the Silver Medal Program and a s k e d f o r i t t o be a multi- year program, the w h o l e i d e a t h a t we would change out the d e s i g n s e v e r y y ear, that is not repetitious, t h a t i s d i f f e r e nt. I j u s t want to make sure we are l o o k i n g a t t h i s clearly and we are staying t r u e t o t h e v a l ues that we have so often and I t h i n k t o d a y s o clearly articulated. It seems l i k e w a l k i n g b a ckwards to say oh, by the way, l e t ’ s j u s t g o b ack, let’s do something old. d o n ’ t t h i n k i t is time to do something old. I s t h e re someone else who would like to comment? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: M S . W A STWEET: discussion then. Don’t be shy. I’ll continue the We will just have a c o n v e r s a t i o n b e tween ourselves. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 I Capital Reporting Company 193 C H A I R M AN MARKS: I would love to e n g a g e y o u i n t hat, Heidi. M S . W A STWEET: Please go ahead. If we started a new p r o g r a m , t h e n I would say yes, new and fresh. I f w e a r e s p e c i fically celebrating a 20th a n n i v e r s a r y , w h at are we celebrating the anniversary of? Of the design? Of the program? C H A I R M AN MARKS: I don’t think it’s the design. M S . W A STWEET: We are not celebrating t h e 2 0 t h a n n i v e rsary of the design, but the P l a t i n u m P r o g r a m. M R . W E INMAN: Of the Platinum Program . C H A I R M AN MARKS: Of the coin itself, a n d t h e c o i n b y its nature has been a coin t h a t c h a n g e s i t s design. If you want to c e l e b r a t e a c h a nging coin, I think you stay w i t h t h a t i d e a and you change it. I would say t o d e n o t e i t i s a 20th anniversary issue, I r e a l l y l i k e w h a t April suggested with the privy mark. I have heard Michael Bugeja talk (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 194 a b o u t p r i v y m a r ks. Maybe he would like to w e i g h i n o n t h a t point. M S . W A STWEET: C H A I R M AN MARKS: I like the privy mark. I think that would b e a s i g n i f i c a n t e lement to add to this. I would s t i l l a s k f o r s omething new. M S . W A STWEET: My hesitation is we h a v e b e e n a s k i n g and asking for modern and f r e s h a n d n e w , and I have yet to see anything r e a l l y , r e a l l y creative, so how do we ask in a d i f f e r e n t w a y s o we get something a little more creative. C H A I R M AN MARKS: ahead. I say full speed W e h a v e charted a new direction. h a v e a s k e d f o r modern concepts. d e v i a t e f r o m t h at. We Why would we I’m repeating myself now. M S . W A STWEET: I’m not saying deviate , b u t b e m o r e s p e cific. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Be more specific? Y o u a r e a s k i n g me to be more specific? M S . W A STWEET: I’m not suggesting d e v i a t e f r o m a s king for modern. I’m saying (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 195 l e t ’ s b e m o r e s pecific when we ask for modern. C H A I R M AN MARKS: that. We can certainly do I g u e s s to be clear in what I am saying i t s e e m s v e r y w rong to me that with all we h a v e a r t i c u l a t e d and believed here on this p a n e l t h a t w e w ould now ask for something old. I d o n ’ t s e e h o w that fits with the direction w e a r e m o v i n g i n. M S . W A STWEET: I am agreeing with you . C H A I R M AN MARKS: You are? Now I’m confused. D R . B U GEJA: Gary, I’m agreeing with b o t h o f y o u , b u t the privy mark, world Mints h a v e b e e n u s i n g the privy mark so creatively, C a n a d a i n p a r t i cular. We should consider p r i v y m a r k s a s a design element to give the a r t i s t s m o r e f r eedom to do precisely what you a n d H e i d i h a v e been discussing. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you. Thank you, Michael. A r e t h e r e a n y o ther comments or suggestions f o r t h e 2 0 1 7 P l atinum Coin? ( N o r e sponse.) (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 196 C H A I R M AN MARKS: M S . S T AFFORD: Did you get enough? We have two members s p e a k i n g v e r y c learly, so thank you for that, yes. I f t h e r e is nothing else, we can take that away. M S . W A STWEET: new techniques. I would welcome some One of my favorite coins has b e e n t h e $ 5 G o l d Indian that was incused. I d o n ’ t t h i n k w e have done that incuse technique i n a n y t h i n g e l s e. Maybe that would be a t e c h n i q u e t h a t would spark some new creativity t o d e s i g n s p e c i fically for an incuse design. M S . S T AFFORD: C H A I R M AN MARKS: Okay. For those who might n o t b e f a m i l i a r with that coin, that is where t h e p r o f i l e o f the Native American is recessed i n t o t h e c o i n r ather than raised out. It’s an u n i q u e c o i n a m o ng American coins. M S . W A STWEET: t e c h n i c a l l y t o produce. It’s not difficult It’s not particularly complicated. M S . S T AFFORD: Just for the record, w e (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 197 t a k e y o u r p o i n t about making sure we clarify o u r l a n g u a g e b a ck to our artists about what we a r e l o o k i n g f o r regarding modern designs, what i s w o r k i n g , w h a t is not. I think we will have f u r t h e r c o n v e r s ations with the committee about h o w w e c a n g i v e that feedback loop further to the artists. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Delicately, I want t o a d d r e s s s o m e t h i ng we saw in our package today o n t h e L i b e r t y theme. There seems to be -- I ’ v e s e e n i t i n some other programs lately -t h i s k i n d o f n u evo, art nuevo, this revival a r t n u e v o b e i n g presented to us as if it’s modern. I t ’ s r eally not. M S . W A STWEET: C H A I R M AN MARKS: That is a good point. A good portion of ou r p o r t f o l i o t o d a y had that kind of thematic feel t o i t , t h e w i s p y presentation of bodies f l o a t i n g a s i f they are in space. Disagree w i t h m e , m e m b e r s, I don’t think you will, but I d o n ’ t t h i n k t hat is where we really want to go. W e s t r u g g l ed with that when we looked at (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 198 t h e t w o y e a r p r ogram, and I believe that was f o r t h e P l a t i n u m, and because of what we had, I t h i n k w e e n d e d up using one or two, probably f r o m t h e s a m e a rtist. W h e n w e talk about Liberty in a moder n c o n t e x t , I j u s t don’t think that is what we a r e t a l k i n g a b o ut. I think we are talking a b o u t m o d e r n b u t down to earth, you know. L i b e r t y h a s h e r feet on the ground, that kind of approach. M S . W A STWEET: Refer back to our v i s u a l d e f i n i t i on of excellence, there is a l o t o f g o o d e x a mples in there. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Right. Is there a n y t h i n g e l s e o n the 2017 Platinum? ( N o r e sponse.) R E PORT BACK ON SCORING C H A I R M AN MARKS: Before we move on to t h e 2 0 1 8 t o 2 0 2 0 Platinum Discussion, I have s o m e r e s u l t s f r om the Jack Nicklaus C o n g r e s s i o n a l G old Medal. No surprises here. I w i l l j u s t r u n through the scores by design (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 199 number. F o r o b verse number 1, it received two points. I s h o u ld add here that a perfect score is 30. W e have 10 members present. E a c h m e m b e r c a n assign up to three points per design. N u m b e r 2 received zero. received two. score of 30. Number 3 Number 4 received a perfect O bverse 5 received zero. Our r e c o m m e n d e d d e s ign for the obverse is 4. R e v e r s e design number 1 received two points. N u m b e r 2 received 29 points, a very strong showing. Reverse design 3 received f i v e p o i n t s , a n d number 4 received four. T h e r e are your tallies for that program. I ’ m l ooking forward to seeing that m e d a l w h e n i t i s available. R E V I E W A N D DISCUSSION ON THEMES FOR THE 2 0 1 8 -2 0 2 0 AMERICAN EAGLE PLATINUM B ULLION COIN PROGRAM C H A I R M AN MARKS: That takes us to d i s c u s s i o n o n c oncepts and themes for 2018- (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 200 2 0 2 0 A m e r i c a n E agle Platinum Proof Coins. A p r i l , c a n y o u update us, please? M S . S T AFFORD: Yes, thank you. Since i t s i n c e p t i o n , the American Eagle Platinum P r o o f C o i n P r o g ram has traditionally been o f f e r e d a s a m u lti- year series. With the 20th a n n i v e r s a r y o f the program, a single year o f f e r i n g w i l l b e presented for 2017. This r e q u i r e s a n e w series to begin in 2018. I n 2 0 0 9, the United States Mint i n t r o d u c e d a n e w six year Platinum Coin Program. T h i s series explored the core c o n c e p t s o f A m e rican democracy by highlighting t h e P r e a m b l e o f the U.S. Constitution. T h e 2 0 18 series can be viewed as a n a t u r a l f o l l o w up to the 2009 U.S. C o n s t i t u t i o n P r eamble series in that it is b a s e d o n a p o r t ion of the Preamble to the D e c l a r a t i o n o f Independence, specifically the p h r a s e “ L i f e , L iberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.” T h e s e ries as it is proposed will (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 201 f e a t u r e a n e w E agle reverse design which will r e m a i n c o n s t a n t for the three year series. T h a t c o u l d , o f course, be the reverse from the 2017 Program. A new Liberty obverse design c e n t e r e d o n t h e theme for each year will be featured. T h a t proposed schedule would be L i f e f o r 2 0 1 8 , Liberty for 2019, and Pursuit o f H a p p i n e s s f o r 2020. I f t h i s concept is pursued, the Unite d S t a t e s M i n t w o u ld seek Secretary of the T r e a s u r y a p p r o v al to strike these Platinum C o i n s u n d e r a u t hority of 31 USC 5112, Subsection (k). W e h a v e the design history of the p r o g r a m b u t t h e committee is entirely familiar with that. I w ill close the remarks there. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Let me ask you, A p r i l , w h a t w e are suggesting here is a three y e a r p r o g r a m t h at the obverse would change, so t h e L i b e r t y i m a ge would change somehow in c o n c e r t w i t h t h e themes “Life, Liberty, and t h e P u r s u i t o f Happiness.” (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 202 M S . S T AFFORD: Correct, as it has bee n c o n c e p t u a l i z e d and is offered as a proposal. C H A I R M AN MARKS: We would have a fixe d r e v e r s e d e s i g n for that three year period? M S . S T AFFORD: Yes. C H A I R M AN MARKS: possible. I think that is M a y b e my idea is one that could f o l l o w a f t e r w a r ds. I’d like to see what the c o m m i t t e e w o u l d think of doing a 10 year p r o g r a m f o c u s e d on the Bill of Rights. M R . J A NSEN: I had the same idea. C H A I R M AN MARKS: I think it’s rich w i t h p o t e n t i a l art images. I don’t think it i s s o m e t h i n g t h e Mint has addressed before, a n d i t g i v e s y o u a stable long term 10 year p r o g r a m t h a t c r eates some critical mass just b y t h e n u m b e r o f years that it goes. It would b e a s u b s t a n t i a l collection over a decade. I w o u l d ask for the committee to weig h i n b o t h o n t h e idea presented by staff, which I t h i n k i s a f i ne idea, and I don’t think t h e s e t w o t h a t are on the table now, that one (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 203 n e e d s t o e x c l u d e the other, perhaps it is a m a t t e r o f t i m i n g. I f t h a t is the case and it is viewed t h a t t h e t h r e e year program described by April i s t h e w a y t o g o now, I would like the c o m m i t t e e t o g o on record now for what happens afterwards. I f you find the Bill of Rights’ i d e a a p p e a l i n g , let’s put a motion out there a n d r e c o m m e n d t hat for 2021 going forward. M R . J A NSEN: I had the exact same thought. C H A I R M AN MARKS: M R . J A NSEN: e x a c t s a m e t h o u ght. We didn’t talk. We didn’t. I had the What occurred to me in t h e w a k e o f t h a t is do we have to take them s e q u e n t i a l l y , c ould we take them in an ad hoc o r d e r , a n d d o w e want to limit it to the Bill o f R i g h t s , c a n we in fact embrace all the a m e n d m e n t s , a g a in, in programmatic order as o p p o s e d t o n e c e ssarily a sequential and kind of one to one. C H A I R M AN MARKS: I believe the (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 204 c o l l e c t o r m e n t a lity would ask for a linear a p p r o a c h t o t h e amendments. M R . J A NSEN: Exactly. C H A I R M AN MARKS: I don’t think you w o u l d w a n t t o d o Amendment three, seven, and then one. I d o n’t think that would appeal. I t h i n k y o u w o u l d want to start with the First A m e n d m e n t , S e c o nd Amendment, Third Amendment. I s t h a t w h a t y o u were suggesting? M R . J A NSEN: I was actually thinking a l l t h e a m e n d m e nts as candidates, but I don’t t h i n k w e n e e d t o do one abolishing alcohol o n l y t o d o o n e the next time un- abolishing alcohol. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Aren’t there like 29 a m e n d m e n t s a t t his point? Some of them, I t h i n k , w o u l d b e difficult to translate into a visual. I ’ m p r etty confident our artists c o u l d t a c k l e t h e first 10. There is something c a l l e d “ T h e B i l l of Rights,” so it is a finite set. years. I t h i n k 1 0 is a manageable number of I t ’ s a nice round number. For coin (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 205 c o l l e c t o r s , I t hink it would make a lot of sense. D R . B U GEJA: i n t e r e s t i n g n o t ion. The Bill of Rights is an Some of the amendments a r e n o t r e a l l y conducive to numismatic art, if y o u t a k e a c l o s e look at them. Certainly, the F i r s t A m e n d m e n t has five freedoms in it, and e a c h o n e o f t h o se freedoms, Freedom of Speech, F r e e d o m o f P r e s s, Freedom for and from R e l i g i o n A s s e m b ly and Petition, those are very good. W h e n w e get to militia and common law , I a m n o t s o s u r e that is going to be a very i n s p i r i n g t y p e of amendment. Many of the a m e n d m e n t s r e s t rict what we used to believe are freedoms. I think in the first 10, you h a v e s o m e a m e n d ments that have several f r e e d o m s t h a t w e cherish, and others, speedy trials. T h e y a re more journalistic in my view than artistic. That is just my opinion. Thank you, Gary. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 206 C H A I R M AN MARKS: Michael, actually t h a t i s w h y w e have a committee like this. t h i n k y o u h a v e a wonderful idea there. t h i n k I m i g h t a gree with you. I I I would gleam f r o m t h a t a f i v e year program for the five l i b e r t i e s o f t h e First Amendment. D R . B U GEJA: I think if you do that, w h a t y o u a r e g o ing to get is a real wide response. A l l the issues that we deal with in s o m e w a y a r e e m bedded in those five freedoms. A s s e m b l y , w e h a d just seen assembly at work in F e r g u s o n , f o r i nstance, just as one example. O n e o f t h e O r p h an Freedoms, we don’t n e c e s s a r i l y u n d erstand how powerful assembly can be. P e t i t i on is really something that has c h a n g e d l i f e i n the United States for the b e t t e r h i s t o r i c ally. The idea that the e s t a b l i s h m e n t c lause of the First Amendment t h a t s e p a r a t e s church and state also has a lot of freedom. T h e state is not going to mandate a r e l i g i o n n o r on the other hand is going to (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 207 prevent it. T h at is pretty unique in modern society. O f c o u rse, press and speech are f u n d a m e n t a l t o liberty, which is associated w i t h t h e s e r i e s of medals that we just got done addressing. Thank you. C H A I R M AN MARKS: D R . V I OLA: Thank you, Michael. I think this is a b r i l l i a n t i d e a , and in thinking about trying t o r e a c h o u t t o youngsters, I could just see i f y o u r o l l o u t one of these medals every year y o u c o u l d h a v e some schools come up with their o w n d r a w i n g s f o r this. I can just see a great e x c i t e m e n t p u t t ing this thing together e d u c a t i o n w i s e , civics classes, social studies classes. I t h i n k this one really has legs and w e s h o u l d r e a l l y give it serious consideration. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Others? Thank you, Herman. D o w e think this is a good idea, five freedoms? (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 208 ( H e a d s nodding.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: How would we proceed w i t h t h a t , i n c ontext with the other idea of L i f e , L i b e r t y a nd Happiness three year program? A r e t hese two programs, do we want to keep both? Would we want to do the five f i r s t a n d t h e t hree later? five later? Three now and the D o es it matter to us? M S . W A STWEET: I’m having a little t r o u b l e v i s u a l i zing Life, Liberty and the P u r s u i t o f H a p p iness, thinking as a designer, i f I w e r e g i v e n this task. We are already d o i n g t h e s e r i e s of Liberty, and Life and the P u r s u i t o f H a p p iness are pretty non- concrete. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Are we suggesting th e f i v e f r e e d o m s i s something we should recommend t h a t w o u l d b e g i n in 2018? M S . S T AFFORD: For the committee’s i n f o r m a t i o n , a c tually part of the Life, L i b e r t y a n d P u r suit of Happiness concept was a t l e a s t i n p a r t drawn from a really great v i g o r o u s c o n v e r sation that we had on Platinum (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 209 C o i n d e s i g n s i n which part of that quote was u t i l i z e d , s o k i nd of riffing off that idea it came to be. T h e r e were designs that were depicted i n t h e P l a t i n u m that we couldn’t go with, but t h a t k i n d o f s p arked other ideas. C H A I R M AN MARKS: right. I think Heidi is I t h i n k it would be a challenge, some o f t h o s e t h e m e s would be challenging. Maybe w e s h o u l d n ’ t s h y away from it because of that. C o m m i t tee members, we need your input here. W h a t d o you want to do with these two d i f f e r e n t c o n c e pts? M R . J A NSEN: I don’t know that the P l a t i n u m s e r i e s sells on its thematic concept, per se. I n s o m e respect I think it is more i m p o r t a n t t h e s eries continues then n e c e s s a r i l y w e expect it to grow because of o n e c o n c e p t v e r sus another. H a v i n g said that, I think Life, L i b e r t y a n d t h e Pursuit of Happiness are p r e t t y b i g , a n d in some sense, we have kind of (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 210 d e a l t w i t h c e r t ainly the middle one pretty heavily here. I actually think the five d i f f e r e n t f r e e d oms would be pretty provocative. M S . W A STWEET: Or we could do the b r a n c h e s o f g o v ernment. M R . J A NSEN: We did that; sorry. That was done earlier. C H A I R M AN MARKS: In the interest of d r a w i n g y o u a l l out, I’m going to put a motion on -D R . B U GEJA: Gary, I would like to m a k e j u s t a q u i ck comment, talking about how w e w o u l d l i k e t he design to be more modern, a n d n o t t o n e c e ssarily fall back on old motifs. L i f e , Liberty and the Pursuit of H a p p i n e s s a r e c oncepts related to the p h i l o s o p h y o f n atural rights and what g o v e r n m e n t s a r e supposed to protect. T h a t i s probably by convention going t o b r i n g u s b a c k to older symbolic ideas. H o w e v e r , t h e f i ve freedoms in the First A m e n d m e n t k e e p evolving with generations. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 211 T h e y a r e a l w a y s modern. We have just been t h r o u g h a n o r d e al with First Amendment rights w i t h N o r t h K o r e a and the interview. I ’ m n o t saying that should be on a coin, of course. The fact of the matter is t h e s e f i v e f r e e doms are very modern because t h e y k e e p b e i n g challenged. We might want to k e e p t h a t i n m i nd, and that challenging n a t u r e , w h i c h h as substance, Life, Liberty and t h e P u r s u i t o f Happiness are philosophical c o n c e p t s , n o t n ecessarily American, but the f i v e f r e e d o m s a re distinctly American, d i s t i n c t l y m o d e rn, and distinctly challenging t o e a c h g e n e r a t ion. Thank you. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you, Michael. Y o u m a d e s o m e v ery good points and you back up w h a t I a m a b o u t to do, and that is to make a motion. M O T I O N C H A I R M AN MARKS: That the committee r e c o m m e n d t h a t for the years 2018 through 2022 t h e t h e m a t i c i d eas of the five freedoms in the (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 212 F i r s t A m e n d m e n t of the Constitution be used f o r t h e A m e r i c a n Eagle Platinum Proof Coin. D R . B U GEJA: Second. C H A I R M AN MARKS: I have already d i s c u s s e d a n d M ichael has discussed reasons for this. I s t here anyone else who wants to weigh in? I t h ought it was time for me to put s o m e t h i n g o n t h e table. When you know you h a v e t o v o t e , m aybe you will find some words y o u w a n t t o s h a re. M S . W A STWEET: April, are you looking f o r o n e s i n g l e formal recommendation or just t h r o w i n g o u t s o me ideas? M S . S T AFFORD: Ideas; absolutely. S a l e s a n d M a r k e ting will take the input and g e t c u s t o m e r f e edback on all those ideas as well. C H A I R M AN MARKS: wonderful idea. I think it is a Are there any comments before w e m o v e t o a v o te? M S . W A STWEET: We are focusing a lot o n t h e g o v e r n m e ntal, constitutional, what (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 213 a b o u t s o m e m o r e cultural things, music, theater, dance? The things that make the country rich. C H A I R M AN MARKS: We can certainly do that. M S . W A STWEET: M R . U R AM: Diversity. The arts. D R . B U GEJA: What will make the c o u n t r y r i c h i s the First Amendment. M S . W A STWEET: I’m not disagreeing. I ’ m j u s t a d d i n g more ideas. I’m not c o n t r a d i c t i n g w hat we have already put on the table. I ’ m j u s t adding more ideas. D R . B U GEJA: The point I’m making is t h e F i r s t A m e n d ment also lends itself to art, m u s i c , d a n c e , e xpressions, not only for the written word. That is why it is so rich. C H A I R M AN MARKS: I would suggest here a t t h i s p o i n t t hat we stay on task. a m o t i o n o n t h e table. There is It has been seconded. W e n e e d t o a c t on that one. If we would like t o h a v e a d i s c u ssion about other thematic (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 214 i d e a s , I t h i n k we need to dispense of this motion first. We need to do this in an o r d e r l y f a s h i o n and we have the motion on the table. A r e t h ere any comments that go to the motion? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: the question. I’m going to call fo r All those in favor, please raise your hand. ( S h o w of hands.) D R . B U GEJA: Aye. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Eight. Is there opposition? M S . W A STWEET: M R . J A NSEN: Abstain. Two abstentions. C H A I R M AN MARKS: The motion passes w i t h e i g h t i n f avor and two abstentions. t h e r e o t h e r d i s cussion? M R . J A NSEN: Does the staff need d i r e c t i o n b e y o n d 2022 at this point? M S . S T AFFORD: No. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Is Capital Reporting Company 215 M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: Gary, this was o n l y f o r d i s c u s sion, is that correct? You are g o i n g b a c k t o t he Mint to say we discussed t h i s , t h i s i s a good idea, but it doesn’t n e c e s s a r i l y m e a n you are going to adopt it? M S . S T AFFORD: Correct. Sales and M a r k e t i n g w i l l go out with several ideas to r e c e i v e c u s t o m e r input, surveys, focus groups, a n d c o l l e c t i n f ormation. Lots of really great t h i n g s h a v e b e e n discussed here. M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: The fact that we m a d e t h i s m o t i o n for the five freedoms, does t h a t m e a n w e c a n’t make another one to say h e r e i s a n o t h e r idea? C H A I R M AN MARKS: You can. M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: Rights’ thing. Like the Bill of I just feel like we only did o n e m o t i o n , a n d that is not the limits to this discussion. C H A I R M AN MARKS: I recall saying whil e w e h a v e t h e m o t ion on the table, if we wanted t o t a l k a b o u t o ther ideas after we dispensed (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 216 o f t h e m o t i o n , we certainly should do that. W e a r e a r e c o m m ending body. T h a t i s o u r r o l e. We recommend. If there are other r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s that a majority of the c o m m i t t e e b e l i e ves are appropriate, certainly, l e t ’ s p r o c e e d a nd get it done. M R . W E INMAN: Gary, in fact, this is j u s t b e c a u s e I ’ ve been around a long time, t h i s i s t h e f o u rth time, I believe, we have b r o u g h t t h i s q u estion to the CCAC and received ideas. H e i d i i s right. I remember in past m e e t i n g s a n i m a l s was one that came up. I t h i n k t h e r e w a s a diversity conversation at a m e e t i n g b a c k i n 2006 or so. I f y o u want to articulate anything m o r e o r t h i n k a bout that, this is probably a g o o d t i m e f o r t hat. Otherwise, we will p r o b a b l y g o b a c k and pull from previous t r a n s c r i p t s a n d provide them to Sales and Marketing. M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you. The motion right now (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 217 i s n o t e x c l u s i v e. If there are other ideas, p u t t h e m o u t t h ere and let the Mint staff wade t h r o u g h t h a t a n d evaluate it and make d e c i s i o n s a s t h ey need to. Certainly, you are n o t l i m i t e d , J e anne, in what you want to do. M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: C H A I R M AN MARKS: Okay. If you have an idea, l e t ’ s b r i n g i t forward. M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: I think I have t o a g r e e w i t h H eidi, it would be rather nice t o s e e t h e a r t s depicted, to sort of expand u p o n w h a t M i c h a el Bugeja mentioned, it is part o f o u r f r e e d o m s , but I think we could maybe i n d i c a t e m o r e m usic or whatever. If we could m a k e t h a t s u g g e stion to the Mint staff that h e r e c o u l d b e a lso a program to do whatever, dance, sports. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Is there a motion? M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: It needs to be in a motion? C H A I R M AN MARKS: That would be the c l e a r e s t d i r e c t ion, I think. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 218 M O T I O N M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: I move that we r e c o m m e n d t o t h e Mint staff to explore the i d e a o f a n a r t s theme. C H A I R M AN MARKS: M S . W A STWEET: Is there a second? I’ll second. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Moved and seconded, m o t i o n b y J e a n n e and seconded by Heidi, for an arts theme. T h at sounds like it would be o p e n -e n d e d a s f ar as how many years and w h a t e v e r , b u t j ust to put that on the table f o r c o n s i d e r a t i on. I s t h e re any discussion on the motion ? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Hearing none, all t h o s e i n f a v o r , raise your hand. ( S h o w of hands.) D R . B U GEJA: Aye. C H A I R M AN MARKS: to zero. I think we have eight O n e m ember has left the meeting, a n o t h e r m e m b e r was out of the room, the point i s t h e m o t i o n c arries. That would be an (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 219 a d d i t i o n a l i d e a that we would forward to the Mint staff. A r e t h ere other ideas? M R . H O GE: Gary, I would make a brief c o m m e n t o n t h e four freedoms articulated by F r a n k l i n R o o s e v elt. I just remembered it. F r e e d o m o f S p e e ch, Freedom of Worship, Freedom f r o m W a n t , a n d Freedom from Fear. It would be i n t e r e s t i n g b e c ause Roosevelt, of course, i n s p i r e d m a n y p eople in the generation who s t i l l c o l l e c t s coins, and it is a summation of w h a t t h i s c o u n t ry defended in World War II. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Are you making a m o t i o n f o r t h e four freedoms? M O T I O N D R . B U GEJA: The four freedoms as a r t i c u l a t e d b y Franklin Roosevelt, Freedom of S p e e c h , F r e e d o m of Worship, Freedom from Want, a n d F r e e d o m f r o m Fear. D e c e m b e r 8 , 1 9 4 1. Those were delivered Of course, they were d e p i c t e d b y N o r man Rockwell paintings, but to b e h o n e s t w i t h you, this is what the Bill of (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 220 R i g h t s a n d D e c l aration of Independence hoped to preserve. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Okay. Is there a s e c o n d f o r t h i s motion? M S . W A STWEET: I would second that. C H A I R M AN MARKS: We have addressed th e f i v e f r e e d o m s a nd now arts, and we have four other freedoms. Is there any discussion? M R . J A NSEN: Would you ask him to r e i t e r a t e t h e f our? C H A I R M AN MARKS: Michael, can you r e i t e r a t e t h e f our? D R . B U GEJA: Yes. Freedom of Speech, F r e e d o m o f W o r s hip, Freedom from Want, Freedom from Fear. R o o sevelt embraced those concepts t o a r t i c u l a t e w hy we needed to defend our way o f l i f e a n d c u l ture after the attack by Japan o n t h e U n i t e d S tates. M R . J A NSEN: Thank you. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Is there a comment o n the motion? ( N o r e sponse.) (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 221 C H A I R M AN MARKS: question. I will move to the A l l those in favor, raise your hand. ( S h o w of hands.) D R . B U GEJA: Aye. C H A I R M AN MARKS: It looks like we hav e a n u n a n i m o u s v o te of 9- 0. out of the room. We have one member The motion carries. Are t h e r e o t h e r i d e as? M S . W A STWEET: Would there be any l e g a l t r o u b l e w ith representing maybe our top f i v e l a r g e s t c i ties in the country, New York, C h i c a g o , S a n F r ancisco? M R . W E INMAN: There is no legal issue with that. M S . L A NNIN: I don’t know if this is a p p r o p r i a t e f o r a Platinum Proof Coin but one o f t h e t h i n g s t hat strikes me that makes A m e r i c a u n i q u e is under creativity in terms of w h a t A m e r i c a n s have invented that makes the r e s t o f t h e w o r ld run. I guess I could n o m i n a t e a m i c r ochip, right? Top inventions (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 222 t h a t h a v e s p r e a d throughout the world since A m e r i c a w a s f o u nded. It could be the inventor o r t h e a c t u a l i nvention. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Just a thought. Intriguing thought. I s t h e r e a d e s i re to put that into a motion? M O T I O N M S . L A NNIN: I move that one of the t o p i c s t o b e c o nsidered for future Platinum C o i n s w o u l d b e a series that could be opene n d e d f o r A m e r i can inventors and inventions. C H A I R M AN MARKS: M R . J A NSEN: Is there a second? Second. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Is there discussion? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: All those in favor, raise your hand. ( S h o w of hands.) D R . B U GEJA: Aye. C H A I R M AN MARKS: a g a i n , 8 -0 . Unanimous vote, T h ank you, Mary, nice one there. I s t h e r e a n y o t her idea you would like to put forward? (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 223 ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: I think we have done a g o o d j o b o f g iving you several concepts to c h e w o n , a n d w e will look forward to seeing w h a t y o u c o m e b ack with. D I S C U SSION OF ANNUAL REPORT C H A I R M AN MARKS: a n n u a l r e p o r t d iscussion. That takes us to our In the packet, I w i l l d i r e c t t h e members to the annual report. T h i s d o c u m e n t i s something that as chairman I p r e p a r e f o r y o u as a result of direction you p r o v i d e t o m e t hroughout the year and years. T h e r e are programs in here that have b e e n i n h e r e f o r a while and some new ones we a r e p u t t i n g f o r ward. I will just kind of q u i c k l y g o t h r o ugh all this. belabor it. I don’t want to I think we are fairly familiar w i t h w h a t i s i n here. U n d e r the circulating programs, c i r c u l a t i n g c o m memoratives, which starts on t h e f i r s t p a g e , of course, we have our A m e r i c a n L i b e r t y Commemorative Coinage Program (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 224 w h i c h t h e c o m m i ttee by resolution in 2013 r e c o m m e n d e d t h a t sort of program be developed, b e e n a c t e d b y C ongress, and in fact, a bill w a s i n t r o d u c e d in the last Congress to i m p l e m e n t t h a t very program. It is my u n d e r s t a n d i n g i t is going to be introduced again. W e t a l ked about it in reference to t h i s a n n u a l r e p ort during the course of 2014 a n d t h e c o m m i t t ee wanted to go forward with it. U n d e r new numismatic commemoratives, t h i s i s t h e p o r tion where statute gives us the a b i l i t y t o r e c o mmend up to two programs per y e a r , g o i n g f i v e years out from the date of o u r a n n u a l r e p o rt. I n t h a t case, there are several e n a c t e d p r o g r a m s already that fill those two s l o t s e a c h y e a r , and that is the case for 2 0 1 5 , 2 0 1 6 , a n d in 2017, the Lions Club I n t e r n a t i o n a l C entury of Service Commemorative C o i n A c t i s a l r eady in place. However, there (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 225 i s n o t a s e c o n d one unless something has h a p p e n e d t h a t I am not aware of. Boys Town a l m o s t h a p p e n e d , but at the last minute, it d i d n ’ t q u i t e w o rk out in the last Congress. W e h a v e the recommendation from our c o m m i t t e e , w h i c h was one that originally came f r o m M r . J a n s e n about the 150th anniversary of t h e a c q u i s i t i o n of the Alaska Territory. That o n e h a s r e m a i n e d in that slot for 2017. T h e W o rld War I American Veterans C e n t e n n i a l C o m m emorative Coin Act is one that h a s b e e n e n a c t e d. In fact, this is one that w e h a d p r e v i o u s ly recommended a version of. T h i s w a s o n e t h at actually came first into our d i a l o g u e , I b e l ieve it was the last meeting in C o l o r a d o S p r i n g s for a summer seminar where we h e l d a p u b l i c i nput session, and the main d i s c u s s i o n f r o m the public was the fact that w e n e e d e d t o h a ve a commemorative program for W o r l d W a r I a n d that year would be 2018. I am p l e a s e d t o s e e that come full circle. F o r t h e second program for 2018, ther e (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 226 s t i l l i s n o t h i n g that has been enacted. H o w e v e r , a p r o g ram that came to us through M i c h a e l B u g e j a to commemorate the 100th a n n i v e r s a r y o f the United States Air Mail S e r v i c e f i l l s t hat slot for us in our r e c o m m e n d i n g s e nse. That remains for this annual report. F o r 2 0 19, the committee has already b y m o t i o n a p p r o v e d for insertion into this report a c o m m e m o r a t i v e for the National Fallen F i r e f i g h t e r s M e morial. This is one that I b r o u g h t f o r w a r d to the committee for several years now. I t has been out of our report for t h e l a s t t w o o r three as we have made room for o t h e r c o m m e m o r a tions. T h i s o ne is important to me. s p o k e n o n t h i s a number of times. I have In 1997, t h e r e w a s a s i m ilar commemorative actually p r o d u c e d t o h o n or the National Police M e m o r i a l , w h i c h is actually located here in Washington, D.C. I w o u l d like to do the same for their (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 227 b r o t h e r s a n d s i sters in arms as first r e s p o n d e r s a n d honor our fallen firefighters. A m o t i on that was put forward by now f o r m e r V i c e C h a irman Mike Olsen is the 50t h a n n i v e r s a r y o f the Apollo 11 moon landing. F o r m e , I t h i n k this is a very logical program for 2019. I c e rtainly hope that R e p r e s e n t a t i v e s and Senators in the Congress w i l l p i c k t h i s up and make this one a reality. I t h i n k i t w o u l d be a wonderful program. T h a t i s our second recommendation for 2019. U n d e r o t her recommendations, we have n o w f o r t h e p a s t three years, and I addressed t h i s e a r l i e r u n der the Liberty program, we h a v e r e c o m m e n d e d a redesign of the Silver Eagle. I t r e a c hed its 25 year threshold for d e s i g n c h a n g e i n 2011. report. That remains in our F r a n k l y, I am doubtful that is going to happen. H o w ever, we are making tremendous s t r i d e s f o r w a r d , of course, with the Liberty M e d a l a n d G o l d Coin. T h a t b rings us down to the Arts Medal (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 228 P r o g r a m , w h i c h we recommended in 2014 with R e s o l u t i o n 2 0 1 4 01, which details our Medals P r o g r a m , w h i c h we have characterized as two s e r i e s , o n e b e i ng a dated Liberty Medal, S i l v e r M e d a l , t hat is renewing with new d e s i g n s e a c h y e ar, and then truly an Arts M e d a l s e r i e s t h at allows artists to develop A m e r i c a n t h e m e s and subject matter and relate t h e m i n a r t i s t i c form, and then for the Mint s t a f f t o e v a l u a te and cull out designs for a p p r o p r i a t e n e s s and bring forward to us p o r t f o l i o ’ s w h e re we would make selections. I n t h e Arts Medals category, we are o n r e c o r d e x p r e s s i ng the importance of such a p r o g r a m t o a d v a nce experimentation, research a n d d e v e l o p m e n t , and to give the artists a c h a n c e t o d e v e l op and hone their skills in new a n d I w o u l d t h i nk exciting ways. T h a t , of course, is in our report s t e m m i n g f r o m e nactment of our resolution. T h i s n ext one is something we just a c t e d o n t o d a y , the 2015 Liberty Theme 24K (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 229 G o l d C o i n a n d S ilver Medal Program. r e p o r t i s f o r f iscal year 2014. This I would s u g g e s t w e k e e p this in the report. However, t h i s i s o n e w h e re we have actually seen this c o m e a b o u t a n d we are now progressing with that. M R . M O RAN: Mr. Chairman, this calls f o r a n u l t r a h i gh relief. I know we o r i g i n a l l y t a l k ed about ultra high but we m o d i f i e d i t t o high relief, I believe. C H A I R M AN MARKS: that. We can certainly edi t I k n o w t here is one other typo or c o r r e c t i o n w e n eed to make. w e n e e d a m o t i o n. I don’t know if I think before I submit the f i n a l v e r s i o n t o the staff, I will remove the word “ultra.” Actually, I have specified here t h a t t h e p r o g r a m is as we recommended it in t h e A r t s M e d a l s Resolution, which would cover t h e 4 0 . 6 m i l l i m eter planchet. I t h i n k Mary has an item to call to our attention. M S . L A NNIN: Actually, sorry, I guess (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 230 I ’ m t h e r e s i d e n t typo person. On page three, f o r t h e 1 0 0 t h A nniversary United States Air M a i l S e r v i c e , t he second to last line, “To c o l l a b o r a t e w i t h a joint coin and postage s t a m p p r o g r a m , ” not “join.” O n p a g e seven, the Congressional Gold M e d a l h o n o r i n g the Code Talkers associated w i t h t h e L a k e S uperior Band, it should say “Fond du Lac.” It is the meeting of September 23. C H A I R M AN MARKS: those changes. I will just make We need to proceed with final a p p r o v a l o f t h i s report. Unless there is o t h e r d i s c u s s i o n that you believe is n e c e s s a r y , I w o uld ask for a motion to approve t h e r e p o r t w i t h the edits so noted. M R . W E INMAN: Mr. Chairman, back to t h e 2 0 1 9 , t h e N ational Fallen Firefighters M e m o r i a l , I b e l ieve this conversation has come u p b e f o r e , t h a t is an existing place; correct? C H A I R M AN MARKS: There is a memorial. I t i s i n M a r y l a nd. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 231 M R . W E INMAN: The reason I say that i s t h e p a r a g r a p h d oesn’t say where it is. The j u r i s d i c t i o n o f the CCAC is to recommend e v e n t s , p e r s o n s or places, as opposed to an organization. It is in fact a place; it just n e e d s t o b e i d e ntified. C H A I R M AN MARKS: That is interesting. O r i g i n a l l y , w h e n I brought this forward p r o b a b l y s i x o r seven years ago, we named the p l a c e , a n d s o m e where along the line, I can’t r e m e m b e r t h e d e tails but there was a version o f t h i s c o m m i t t ee that decided we should make it more general. I welcome the idea of b r i n g i n g i t b a c k to the specific and naming the place. M R . W E INMAN: Typically, the committe e r e c o m m e n d s e v e n ts, the so and so anniversary o f s o m e t h i n g , w hich is an event. C H A I R M AN MARKS: A memorial is a p h y s i c a l p l a c e , or a monument. M R . W E INMAN: conversation. I remember having this I believe it is a physical (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 232 p l a c e , a n d a c c o rdingly, it should be identified. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Right. It bears the p l a q u e s w i t h a l l the fallen firefighters in the nation. I f the committee is comfortable k n o w i n g t h a t I will go in and adjust that -M S . L A NNIN: M R . W E INMAN: M S . L A NNIN: Crofton, Maryland. How bizarre. Unless Google is wrong, a n d G o o g l e i s n ever wrong. C H A I R M AN MARKS: I will put in the a p p r o p r i a t e l o c ale and make this more specific. I t i s also where the National Fire A c a d e m y i s , o n the same grounds. M S . L A NNIN: I’m sorry, Gary. E m m i t s b u r g , M a r yland. C H A I R M AN MARKS: is it. Yes, thank you. Tha t A l l i s right in the world now. M S . L A NNIN: Crofton is obviously a mailing address. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Thank you. That is t h e c o r r e c t l o c ale. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 233 M O T I O N M R . J A NSEN: I so move to approve the 2 0 1 4 C C A C a n n u a l report as submitted for the J a n u a r y 2 7 -2 8 C CAC meeting with amendments and e d i t s a s d e s c r i bed on the record. C H A I R M AN MARKS: Is there a second? M S . S T EVENS- SOLLMAN: C H A I R M AN MARKS: Second. It has been moved an d s e c o n d e d t o a p p rove the fiscal year 2014 a n n u a l r e p o r t o f the committee with the a m e n d m e n t s a n d edits as recorded on the record. I s t h e re any discussion? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: All those in favor, r a i s e y o u r h a n d , please. ( S h o w of hands.) D R . B U GEJA: Aye. C H A I R M AN MARKS: 9- 0 . Unanimous approval, T h a t b r i n gs us to the end of our agenda f o r t h e d a y , b u t I will first ask the staff if t h e r e i s a n y t h i ng more you wish to bring to o u r a t t e n t i o n t oday. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company 234 ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: team. We did well today, W e a r e a well oiled machine. I will n o w a s k t h e c o m mittee is there anything f u r t h e r y o u w i s h to bring to your colleagues’ attention? ( N o r e sponse.) C H A I R M AN MARKS: Hearing none, we are a d j o u r n e d , a n d we will see you in the morning. ( W h e r e upon, at 3:13 p.m., the c o m m i t t e e m e e t i ng was concluded.) (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 1 CITIZENS COINAGE ADVISORY COMMITTEE PUBLIC MEETING January 28, 2015 9:30 a.m. United States Mint 801 9th Street, N.W. Conference Room A, Second Floor Washington, D.C. Reported by: 20220 Natalia Thomas, CSR, Capital Reporting Company (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 2 A P P E A R A N C E S Guests (In person) Gary Marks, CCAC Chairperson Erik Jansen, CCAC Robert Hoge, CCAC Michael Moran, CCAC Mary Lannin, CCAC Heidi Wastweet, CCAC Herman Viola, CCAC Jeanne Stevens-Sollman, CCAC Thomas J. Uram, CCAC Jason Rano, Director - NPS Donald Ledbetter, Partnership Coordinator - NPS Bill McAllister, Coin World Les Peters, Coin Update Maria Goodwin, US Mint staff Barry Phelps, US Mint staff Anne Baily, US Mint staff Nanette Evans, US Mint staff Jack Sczerban, US Mint staff Jason Laurie Steve Antonucci (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 3 A P E A R A N C E S (Continued) Guests (In person) Stacy Kelley April Stafford Greg Weinman Guests (On phone) Michael Bugeja, CCAC, appearing telephonically Diane Liggett, Writer/editor - NPS Phil Musselwhite, Identity Manager - NPS Bob Clark, Associate Manager/Media Dev. - NPS Paul Gilkes, Coin World Dave Harper and/or Debbie Bradley (Numismatic News) Mike Unser, CoinNews.net Louis Golino, Coin Week Charles Morgan, Coin Week Mike Zielinski, Coin Update James Bucki, About.com (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 4 C O N T E N T S PAGE NO. April Stafford 5 Donald Ledbetter 10 Jason Rano 13 Comments/questions 14 April Stafford 62 Comments/questions 65 (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 5 P R O C E E D I N G S MR. MARKS: Can I get everyone to come to the table? Good morning. I’m calling this January 28th, 2015, meeting of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee to order. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for being here for our second day of meetings. shorter agenda today. We have a We have some discussions on concepts and themes. The first one’s going to be for the National Park Service 100th Anniversary Commemorative Coin Program and then we’re going to talk about some potential 2016 special products. So, April, if you’re ready to tell us about the Park Service Program, please go ahead. MS. STAFFORD: I am. Thank you and good morning. It is Public Law 113-291 that commemorates the 100th anniversary of the National Park Service, or NPS, with a three-coin commemorative coin series up to 100,000 five-dollar gold coins, 500,000 one-dollar (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 6 silver coins, and 750,000 half-dollar-clad coins. According to this Act, the design shall be emblematic of the 100th anniversary of the NPS. Surcharges are to be paid to the National Park Foundation for projects that help preserve and protect resources under the stewardship of the NPS and promote public enjoyment and appreciation of those resources. The NPS and the National Park Foundation liaisons have presented the following recommendations for the coin designs: Basically could be boiled down to the obverse design, including elements that focus on the NPS tradition and celebration of the NPS centennial. And the reverse would include a focus on the servicewide thematic images. So let me go through some suggestions related to both of those. So for obverse, again, elements focusing on NPS’s tradition and the celebration of their centennial, which is from 1916 to 2016. Ideas might include featuring the official NPS arrowhead logo on one side of all three coins or featuring the official NPS arrowhead and/or other NPS badges and insignia as (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 7 they evolved over time or featuring traditional elements of those insignia to include bison, the Sequoia tree or pinecone, Native American plants or pots, et cetera, on one side of all three coins. Basically an idea here would be to somehow showcase the evolution of the NPS logo in three main steps including the pre-1954 pinecone, the 1954 arrowhead, and what is used now and was enacted in 2001, the present arrowhead logo. Another idea for the obverse would be to feature iconic National Park sites and/or people associated with them on one side of all three coins. And some iconic sites to consider, you have the list in front of you so I won’t read them all, but they include the Statue of Liberty National Monument, the Martin Luther King, Jr., Memorial in D.C., Yellowstone National Park, et cetera. For the reverse design, again, it would be to include a focus on service-wide thematic images such as the ideals of stewardship, community, volunteerism, and recreation with supporting images such as rivers, trails, parklands, bicyclists, (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 8 kayakers, urban skyline to illustrate the rivers, trails again, and Conservation Assistance Program. Another thematic image service-wide theme would be preservation, conservation, and recreation with supporting images that might include President Theodore Roosevelt and John Muir at Yosemite, bison at Yellowstone, California Condor at Great -- the Grand Canyon or in Pinnacles. Another service-wise theme, pride, heritage, culture, and history with supporting images including the Statute of Liberty, Latino dancers at Border Folk Festival, and the Tuskegee Airmen; or discovery, education, science and learning with supporting images such as Thomas Edison’s first lightbulb, the Wright flyer propeller, artists’ pallet from where from the National Historical -- the NS- -- NHS. What’s that? MS. BIRDSONG: Site. MS. STAFFORD: National Historical Site. Thank you, Betty. And lastly, protection, connection, and inspiration with supporting images such as a scenic landscape or wilderness area with a hiker. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 9 Obverse and reverse inscriptions might include excerpted texts or phrases to express the meaning of the Organic Act of 1916. Anything to celebrate the NPS centennial and reflect the NPS centennial themes. To talk more about that, we have our two liaisons with us here today. Okay. Well, we have one liaison with us here today, Mr. Donald Ledbetter, who is the partnership coordinator for the Centennial Office of the National Park Service. Mr. Ledbetter, would you care to address the -- address the Committee? And also we do have our second liaison with us. He is Mr. Jason Rano, who is director of Government Relations with the National Park Foundation. So if you gentlemen would like to address the Committee? MR. LEDBETTER: MS. STAFFORD: take this mike with you. MR. LEDBETTER: Do you want me to come down? You can go to the podium and That’ll -Okay. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 10 MS. STAFFORD: MR. LEDBETTER: Uh-huh. Well, I’ll just have a seat maybe over there. Okay. Well, thank you all so much for having us here today. So my name is Donald Ledbetter with the National Park Service. MR. RANO: And I’m Jason Rano with the National Park Foundation. MR. LEDBETTER: So I’d love the opportunity to take a few moments to talk about the Park Service Centennial and some of the themes and the focus of what we’re working on over the next two years to augment what was in the suggestions that we sent over. So I work in the National Park Service’s Centennial Office where we’re busy planning all sorts of aspects of our Centennial Commemoration. And I think it’s fair for the Park Service to say that the Centennial is two things for us; it’s both a looking back to celebrate the 100 years of preservation of the cultural and natural heritage of the country that has been assigned to the -- to the National Park Services, the mission of the Park Service, but at the same time (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 11 we’re very much focused on looking forward. And a lot of the Centennial work that we’re doing is thinking about what the Park Service is going to be in its second century, how it’s mission is going to evolve, how it’s position in society is going to evolve a way to be related to the American people. And so research has shown that a lot of the American public, when they think about the National Park Service or they’re asked about the National Park Service, think about the big parks out west. They think about the Yellowstones and the Grand Canyons and the Yosemites and the iconography and all of the sites that we’re obviously amazingly proud to be stewards of and continue -- you know, will be into the future. But at the same time, for us, the Park Service, we’re much, much more than that. We’re visible in communities through our reservat- -- our Rivers, Trails, and Conservation Assistance Program, through various tax incentives programs that we do to facilitate heritage conservation in communities. We work on the Main Street USA Initiative and programs in communities around the country. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 We do Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 12 a lot of work in education, volunteerism, scientific research, ecosystem monitoring. You know, our work is much, much more than, you know, just those iconic sites. So I think just one thing we want to convey in as we think about the design of the coin series is how to show that -- that diversity. And so recognizing that, you know, the market for these coins, though, is also somewhat of a traditionalist, you know, market as well in some ways and the iconography, the visual landscapes on those sites need to be incorporated, as well. So I think that’s the challenge from our perspective that, you know, we have in the thinking about the design for the coin series. Something that appeals and pops out and screams, you know, National Park Service on the one hand, but also has something about those other elements of our mission, the other themes that are woven throughout the Park Service and the work that we do. And so that’s some of the thought we put into some of the recommendations. And so just wanted (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 13 to expand on that for a moment. MR. RANO: I’ll just say for those who don’t know, the National Park Foundation is the congressionally chartered official charity of the Park Service and we’re the recipient organization for the proceeds from the Centennial coin. And just to kind of elaborate as -- as Donald said, you know, it is about looking back on the 100 years and looking forward for the next generation. And one of the missions of this Service and the Foundation for the Centennial is engaging the next generation of park stewards and park advocates and park visitors. You know, I think we agree that one of the most important things is to show the breadth of what the Service does. And I think a great example of this is at the National Jazz Historic site in New Orleans there are rangers who play and teach jazz to New Orleans inner-city youth. Not something a lot of people would think that our National Park Service rangers are doing on a daily basis, right? And so when you think about it, there are (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 14 401 National Park Service units in the United States. Only 59 of them are the iconic park parks. And so to Don’s point, I think it is important to have that iconography because that’s what Americans’ know. But the Park Service does so much. The breadth of what the Park Service does is so impressive that I -- that we think that it’s important to integrate that as much as possible into the designs. MR. MARKS: Okay. Before we get into our thematic discussion, I just want to cover any ground for questions the Committee might have about the program, itself? I’d like to get those answered. Erik? MR. JANSEN: Every national park location’s got a gift shop and every gift shop’s got National Park stuff -- hats, coats. And very often I find various ad hoc medals. Are you planning on selling these products through your channels? MR. LEDBETTER: confidence, say yes. I can, with great We will -- we look forward to working with the concessioners and the cooperating (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 15 associations that operate the bookstores and the retail operations in the National Parks. And although those discussions haven’t kicked off, I can say, with great confidence, that they will be in the mix and we will absolutely do everything possible to make that happen. We think that’s a vital channel to have as part of the program. MR. JANSEN: We -- yeah. We occasionally get a really -- a really consumer-oriented charge from Congress like this with Girl Scouts, a handful of others, that really have such broad appeal, especially to -- to kids. MR. LEDBETTER: MR. JANSEN: Yep. And I would just love to walk into Yellowstone lodge or -- I live in Seattle and I -- you know, I’m a card carrying, you know, annual pass member. MR. LEDBETTER: MR. JANSEN: I’ve been -- MR. LEDBETTER: MR. JANSEN: all -- yeah. Absolutely. Great deal. Great deal. -- all kinds of stuff. It is a great deal. They It’s the best (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 16 investment money can buy in this country. So I just love what you guys do. MR. LEDBETTER: MR. JANSEN: Thank you, yeah. MR. RANO: And especially the Foundation. MR. JANSEN: Thank you. And I just hope we can -- we could expand this because the Mint does produce these against the budget and the business plan. And when you’ve got a channel like you have it would be terrific to see it go to work. MR. LEDBETTER: I think this represents a great opportunity to leapfrog off of this and leverage that. And a lot of our constituencies overlap and I think there is a lot of potential there. And I know some colleagues from our Business Services Program have had discussions with the Mint in the past so I think that’s certainly a thread to carryforward. MR. MARKS: Okay. Are there any other questions that we’d like to ask, either the stakeholders or the staff? Jean? (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 17 MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: to continue through 2016? Is this program going I mean, how many -- how many -- how many designs do you expect to have or produce? I mean, how -MR. LEDBETTER: MS. STAFFORD: Well, I -- yeah. So I just would go back. This is a -- the night -- the 2016 Commemorative Coin Program so there -MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: MS. STAFFORD: Correct. -- would be a gold, silver, and clad. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: MS. STAFFORD: each of those sides. Uh-huh. So we would need designs for And there’s up to 100,000 gold coins, 500,000 silver coins, and 750,000 half dollars. But the discussion today would be about if all -- all three coins in the -- in the program would have one side in common or if each of the coins -MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: MS. STAFFORD: Okay. -- would have a unique obverse and reverse. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Okay. Thank you. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 18 Thank you, April. MR. MARKS: Are there other questions? Mary? MS. LANNIN: Do you have a problem with -- as you said, you know, people remember the iconic parks, you know, like Yosemite and things like that. Do you have a problem with one of the coins having one of the western parks on it? I’m thinking of the two guys that just did the free climb -MR. LEDBETTER: MS. LANNIN: Uh-huh. -- in Yosemite which really focused on -MR. LEDBETTER: MS. LANNIN: Uh-huh. -- the National Park. And with -- but you don’t want to have it look like it’s a commemoration of their ascent. MR. LEDBETTER: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I would say definitely not a problem -MS. LANNIN: Okay. MR. LEDBETTER: -- you know, with looking at those as options. MS. LANNIN: Okay. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 19 MR. LEDBETTER: I think not leaning too heavily on the iconography -MS. LANNIN: Right. MR. LEDBETTER: -- I think finding that balance. MS. LANNIN: Okay. MR. LEDBETTER: But, you know, a nod to the fact that those elements are very attractive and -MS. LANNIN: Okay. MR. LEDBETTER: -- have a certain appeal, you know, to the marketplace -MS. LANNIN: Uh-huh. MR. LEDBETTER: MS. LANNIN: -- is certainly in the mix. MR. RANO: Okay. I think also an interesting point is if we think about other things that are commemorating that are being commemorated throughout the National Park Service -MS. LANNIN: MR. RANO: Right. -- is not only the Centennial, you look at Civil War and -MS. LANNIN: Uh-huh. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 20 MR. RANO: things like that. -- Civil War battlefields and Various individual parks are celebrating anniversaries this year and next, so I think that’s another consideration. But we would agree with Donny that we would have no problem with -MS. LANNIN: MR. RANO: So in other words -- MS. LANNIN: -- using the iconography. -- it may -- it may be interesting to have three different obverses and three different reverses. MR. RANO: MS. LANNIN: Yeah. Okay. MR. LEDBETTER: I think there’s so much to draw from it’s a good possibility. And when I was taking a look at I think it was the Army commemorative coin series from a couple of years ago, I think it was the Army series that took the advantage to have different designs on all six sides. And it was -- it was just a great approach, I thought, because they had at least one design that was very traditional, men in uniform, very much what (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 21 you thought of as Army. And then they had some other designs that spoke to some of the work they do in disaster relief and communities -MS. LANNIN: Uh-huh. MR. LEDBETTER: -- for example. And it showed a little bit more of the breadth of the Army mission and activity. So that was a good approach I noticed in some -MS. LANNIN: Okay. MR. LEDBETTER: MR. MARKS: MR. JANSEN: -- of the past series. Erik? This is really maybe a question for the Mint and Greg. I’m especially focusing in on the fact that we have an opportunity to impact kids here because you want to win the next generation you’ve got to start early and often. And I’m a huge, huge fan of kids experiencing all the dimensions of the National Park, whether it’s culture, whether it’s natural wandering, whatever. The point I’m driving towards is is I look at a sales channel here, you know, the gold coin is (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 22 not going to sell to that kind of family vacation collector, things like that. And probably not the silver either at 50 bucks, plus or minus. Clad half dollar, now I know the legislation speaks to surcharges and covering costs and all of that, but is there any way within the pricing strategies in the Mint that clad dollar could be absolutely at the lowest possible price so that -- so that every channel they’ve got has got a very reasonably priced item which -- because I would love to see that half dollar sell out. And baseball didn’t quite sell out. know if they’ve sold out yet or not. Close. I don’t Yeah. Well, yeah, and like, for instance, the 9.95 price put on the two Kennedy half dollars, that’s kind of what I’m looking for here. MR. WEINMAN: The only thing I’ll say on that is the legislation has revisioned it of course we have to -- we must cover our costs. MR. JANSEN: MR. WEINMAN: Yeah. Yeah. And if we don’t, then they can’t get their surcharges. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 23 MR. JANSEN: MR. WEINMAN: Absolutely. And so we have -- we have to take that into consideration with pricing otherwise everything would be taken under advisement. MR. JANSEN: What’s the surcharge on the half dollar, 3 bucks? MR. WEINMAN: MR. JANSEN: It’s $5. MR. WEINMAN: Five? MR. JANSEN: $5 for the half. All right. All right. So I guess that rules out 5.49, doesn’t it? MR. MARKS: MR. JANSEN: I’m trying, guys. Or 5.95. 5.95 might work. There you go. I’m trying. MS. BAILY: If I could add, I’m Anne Baily. I’m the products manager that manages our Commemorative Coin Programs. We are very conservative with our pricing because of the requirement to break even. surcharge it does it very difficult. With the $5 We’ve got also to build in a small margin in case things don’t sell as well as we anticipate. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 24 We are probably more conservative than ever after the Girl Scouts because we all thought that would sell very well and it did not. So we do try to price as low as we can, particularly for the half dollars. But it is a legal requirement we have to meet that we take very, very seriously. MR. JANSEN: MR. MARKS: Sure. Thank you. Are you done, Erik? MR. JANSEN: MR. MARKS: Sure. I’m done. Thank you very much. Are there any other questions? I guess I have one. Ask the gentlemen if you had to pick one person -- personality that we would put on -- on one or multiple of these coins, would it be Theodore Roosevelt or someone else? MR. RANO: of my head, probably. I mean, I would say off the top This is -- that’s the start of what we now see as the National Park Service, so I would -- yeah. I would say probably. MR. MARKS: Or if we wanted to -- just for discussion sake, if we wanted to put an image of three people, one on each of the coins, who would the other two people be? Who would you suggest? (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 25 MR. LEDBETTER: Probably John Muir and Stephen Mather. MR. MARKS: Okay. All right. Back -- back when the America the Beautiful Program for the quarters was beginning there was a movement here on this Committee that we felt for the period of time that the America the Beautiful quarters would be issued that rather than having George Washington on the obverse that we put Theodore Roosevelt. That would have required an act of Congress and it just didn’t get legs. But we -- we felt it was kind of a shame that we’d have National Parks and national places honored and the role that T.R. had played in all of those. So I do have a great interest in seeing Theodore Roosevelt appear somewhere in this program. So anyway, just food for thought. And did you want to -MR. WEINMAN: Well, the only thing I’ll mention on that is that, once again, the charge is that it must be emblematic of the 100th Anniversary of the National Park Service. Not that -- nothing that (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 26 says it’s exclusive of somebody who’s no longer living or an iconic figure. Obviously we don’t -- we try to stay away from putting living people on -- on the coin for a number of reasons. But we want to be careful not to be commemorating an individual as opposed to commemorating the -MR. MARKS: MR. WEINMAN: No. MR. MARKS: -- larger -- MR. WEINMAN: I --- the larger -- the larger mission. MR. MARKS: Isn’t -- wouldn’t it be appropriate, though, if we have one, two, or three individuals who were seen as founders of -- of the Park Service or major contributors to it happening? If we’re celebrating a 100th anniversary, it seems those might be people in context for the purpose of this program. MR. WEINMAN: Yeah. I think context is everything. MR. MARKS: Yeah. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 27 MR. WEINMAN: And I think -- I mean, there’s nothing that prohibits it so long as it properly ties into the emblematic nature of the charge. MR. MARKS: Okay. All right. All right. So if there aren’t any more questions, is there a member who would like to begin the thematic discussion? MR. MORAN: Or you can just go around. MR. MARKS: Michael, go ahead. MR. MORAN: Well, first of all, I want to caution both the Mint and the Park Service. There is a rich, rich listing here of subject materials for these coins. And the tendency will be, and it is a trap, to try and be all inclusive with your subject matter. And you cannot do it particularly on the $5 gold piece. That’s the size of a nickel. And I would encourage all that are involved in it, particularly on your inner-review function, to look at designs that keep the themes simple. You can’t put the Grand Canyon on any of these coins. It just doesn’t fit. We’ve seen this same trouble in the America (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 28 the Beautiful quarter series. We get from the superintendents of the various parks their favorite postcard and it will not fit on a quarter. So and this Committee always tries to take the recommendation of the stakeholder at heart and we try and satisfy them so you all will have some say in this. And I encourage you to make your selections focus on the designs that keep it simple. Now, I do have a suggestion. I am biased. As a member of the Theodore Roosevelt Advisory Board, I sure want to see T.R. on one of these coins. But I really think that the best way to do it, not necessarily to have he and John Muir standing, looking out over Yosemite, but to put bust and jug head on one of these coins. I think that would really work. I understand Frank Mather, he’s the heart and soul of the start of the Park. is too many. But three of them And it’s really -- in terms of the spiritual beginnings it’s Muir and Roosevelt. MS. WASTWEET: Well said. I would echo that sentiment also that there would be a tendency to try to overcrowd these -- these designs. And while all (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 29 these things may be important, above all we want them to be attractive coins because that’s going to draw in the new people who don’t already know and bring new audience in and have that chance to educate because they’ll be attracted to the look of the coin. So I caution against busy collages. I think that there’s going to be a tendency to try to squish everything together. And on the flip side, we don’t want just a single image either that’s going to narrow the focus. Because what you said that most people think natural -- these big parks and not all of the smaller entities, the landmarks and so forth that you represent. And so that is a chance to talk about the connection between those two. When I was looking at the images in our packet I was noticing the picture of the bridge and the picture of the arch from the National Arches and how that they are similar, but contrasting. It would be fun to split our coin down the middle and have half the bridge on one side and half the arch on the other so we see the connection and the (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 30 relationship between the landmarks, the management, and the natural world. And that way we’re not getting too busy, but we’re speaking about the scope of what you do. And you also had the Statute of Liberty and then you had Old Faithful and they kind of make the same shape. So if we split each down the -- have the statue on one side and Old Faithful on the other, it talks how they -- they connect so that might be fun. And I do support having unique pictures on each side of the coins. The more the better. The more the merrier. And then some of the wording suggestions were quite long, so let’s try to cut back on the wording. Again, we like to look at the coins and read the literature, not read the coins and look at the literature. That’s it. MR. BUGEJA: Gary, this is Michael Bugeja. I just wanted to let you know I’m here. And when you think it’s a good time for me to speak I’ll -- I’d like to say a few words. MR. MARKS: Well, Michael, now that you (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 31 mentioned it, I think right now is a fine time. MR. BUGEJA: I can’t see anybody and it’s my loss. I’m very excited about this discussion for a lot of reasons. One is, you know, I work with young people at Iowa State University. And I can tell you, at least in the big west, how many students love national parks in our for conservation and sustainability, which I think is going through every university across the country. The Organic Act of 1916 has some fundamental words in it. And that is, you know, preserving nature, historic objects, and the wild for future generations so I think that’s a nice theme to go on. But, you know, I was intrigued when folks were asking about the three people they would put on a -- on a -- to symbolize the National Park System and, of course, Theodore Roosevelt. But there are two others who did more for the Park Service, I think, than anyone could imagine. And one Ansel Adams and his photography. And in addition to that, the National Parks can trace their (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 32 existence to Henry David Thoreau, the first conservationist and who was a symbol, in the United States at least, for conservation. So I thought I’d throw those things out. The theme seems to be, you know, conserving the scenery and nature, historic objects, and the wild for future generations. The theme is sustainability or conservation. And Ansel Adams certainly promoted the park in a way that no other person really had for future generations through the mastery of his photography. And Henry David Thoreau reminded everybody about the need to conserve nature. MR. MARKS: Thank you. Thank you, Michael. guess I’ll end my comments now. Well, I And this is going to pick up on the theme of a couple of my colleagues here. And that’s the idea of keeping a balance on these designs, that we don’t clutter them up. And you mentioned the -- the Army Commemorative Program that happened a few years ago. And that’s a great illustration of what we’re talking about. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 33 If you look at the half dollar from that program, if you look at the obverse it is cluttered up. And I know the attempt was well meaning, but it’s cluttered up with people doing all sorts of things. And it happened because -- because it was -and I’d like to speak positively as much as possible when I’m in this chair, but it was ugly. And it was one of the lowest mintage commemorative half dollars in modern commemorative times. It didn’t sell. People didn’t want it. So there -- there is an interest for you, as stakeholders, to pursue something that is not a story board. It’s not like you’re looking at the comics or, you know, we want to -- we want to give attribution to a whole array of different ideas and things and we’re going to put them all on these -- the six coin faces that we have here. I think that would be an awful mistake. People like me who have -- I’ve been collecting for 40-plus years and there’s -- believe it or not there are people on this Panel with me who have been collecting longer than that. And generally we collect (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 34 what we like. We are -- we are art people. We like to buy art and many of us are buying other types of art, too. But you want to strive for something that’s going to be attractive and something where it’s not going to set record low mintage levels. Because if that happens, you’re probably not going to get your -- your cut of the deal and at the end of the day it’s not really going to honor your cause. So what we find is that simplicity is better. So if there are singular, iconic images that we can identify, be it flora, fauna, personalities. I like the idea of the double profile of maybe T.R. and Muir. I’d like to explore that. And, as I said before, I would like to see T.R. on here somewhere. And but I also agree with Heidi that I’d like to see six different unique faces here for the program because there is so much of the story to tell. One way we can approach that and cover different areas is to utilize all six of those for something unique. So I guess that’s what I have to contribute. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 35 And, Erik, are you prepared? MR. JANSEN: MR. MARKS: I’m ready. Okay. MR. JANSEN: Go ahead. I had to give a speech to a large crowd at a convention one year at an engineering school. And somebody wisely, fortunately, pulled me aside and gave me a piece of advice. And they said, “I don’t know what you’re going to talk about, but think of the following.” talking to a bunch of engineers. I’m “What you tell somebody in terms of the facts, they’ll forget. But how you made them feel, they’ll never forget.” And so I would say when I look at this charge we have got, I can’t hardly even imagine in the time I’ve served here a more rich selection of icons and locations and arches and mountains and trees and sunsets and, I mean, the list is actually swamping. It just floods you. You can’t even find your way through it all. So I would say I think in this one, and subject to another thought I’ll mention in a minute, I would -- I would think that it would be worth the (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 36 effort for the artists to think back on their times when they’ve visited a site at the National Park Service and how that made them feel and what they wanted to take away and what they ultimately did take away. And that needs to drive their conscience and their creativity as to what to turn this coin into. Because if we can strike a chord not with someone’s knowledge of the parks, but their recollection of being at the parks, I think we will really hit the heart of the matter here. Now, a different thought. Between the esoteric, the academic, and the gut sense of presence and place, I take these three coins with three different cuts to that mix. The gold, we’ll probably -- if the numbers aren’t too obvious, we’ll sell -- on the high end we’ll sell 60,000 of these. 15. On the low end we’ll sell I hope and I truly believe it’ll be more towards the 60 end. Maybe we’ll max it out. It happened in baseball. Baseball’s not about -- well, to some people it’s about the stats. But most people it’s about the time they went with (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 37 their dad or their mom or their brother or their uncle or whatever. The National Park system could be just as good. But I think the gold probably asks for the esoteric, the -- the -- maybe think of it as, well, that’s the adults coin in this set. The 50 cent piece, I alluded to it previously. Man, if that doesn’t have a picture of a family enjoying some iconic experience, I think we’ve missed the boat. My point is not to dictate the art. My point is to drive towards a direction of our sense of experience and emotional take away from the parks. So that leaves the silver dollar in the middle and, of course, that’s always the workhorse of volumes here. At least it has been in the past. And it certainly is the workhorse in the economics to -to the National Park Service. Do these funds go to the Service? The Foundation? MR. RANO: MR. JANSEN: The Foundation. So much for the better. that’s the workhorse here. So But it’s also a $55 priced (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 38 coin at silver today, blah, blah, blah. So that’s -- that’s kind of what works against you here. The silver dollar is also the largest coin. And into what we do, a big pallet is -- is really freeing to the -- to the artist. So we have three very different kinds of decisions here. We have the esoteric at the gold end. I think we have just the -- put your child’s eyes on and design the half dollar. And then the dollar in the middle, the gold dollar in the middle is -MR. MARKS: MR. JANSEN: Silver. -- is where we really, really will make the numbers work for you guys. MR. MARKS: Thank you. Thank you, Erik. Mary? MS. LANNIN: Okay. Wow, six different sides, six different opportunities. I like very much Heidi’s idea of pairing the modern parks that we don’t necessarily think about with the national parks that, you know, Yellowstone erupting, whatever. I would like to see the obverses remain the domain of the founders, the people that we need to (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 39 thank, the Teddy Roosevelts. You know, whether we put Ansel Adams, as Michael said, on it, I mean, I think of Ansel Adams a lot. I don’t necessarily think of Thoreau. But I would like to see the obverse remain the people side and the reverse remain a contrast between the actual natural park and the man-made created parks. So that’s it. Herman? MR. VIOLA: is just remarkable. Excuse me. The opportunity here And the idea that you’re going to try to encompass all these parks, all these themes in the six designs -- I wish we could have like 60. And, you know, I’m trying to visualize how this all could work. I mean, are you going to have these like in a box set that all three could be in a box that could then tell the story? Would there be education printed materials with it? I’m imagining there’ll be some postage stamps and all, as well, that goes with this. So I can see really a remarkable collector’s item. But one thing I would like to make sure we (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 40 don’t avoid is we have to remember the Native Americans who were all around all this. And so somehow if we can incorporate some of that theme in there. But I -- I think the challenge is just going to be overwhelming. But I do like Heidi’s thought on pairing up a couple of these sites into one coin. And then I’m wondering, you know, just off the top of my head, are we -- you know, there’s so many different types of sites, like battlefields. I mean, it could be that, you know, one coin represents the battlefields, one coin represents flora and fauna, another one represents, you know, some kind of sites like, you know, the bridge you’re talking about or whatever. So I do feel that we have to let the artists have free rein here and a lot of designs come in and that we can just kind of really analyze them and say, oh, we never thought of that but this could work. But, I mean, my own thought is that I’d love to see Native Americans somehow included one way or the other. But it is really an amazing opportunity. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 41 And I just wish this not was a one-year program, but a multi-year program. MR. MARKS: Thank you. Thank you, Herman. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: thank you, Gary. Jean? I think my mike is -- Whoops, thank you. As an artist, I -- I look at this program as a hugely overwhelming and terribly exciting project. It’s -- it’s rather taking my breath away because I am also, like Erik, a member -- a lifetime member of the National Park Society so I feel strongly about what you’re trying to do or what we’re going to do. And I would urge you to accept simplicity on this, but a lot of power. two icons on each coin. pretty exciting. You know, I can see one or We have six sides. That’s And when you think about the coin that would be bringing in our young people, you know, that really has to address their interests. And, again, like Erik said, you know, we have to esoteric gold coin that could be, you know, really positive, but that’s just so tiny. So we have to think about what’s going to wow these people that will be putting them -- the coins in their (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 42 collections. So I’m urging the artists to think really simple, really positive, very powerful images to bring to the public so that, you know, they’ll have either a boxed coin set as Herman said and maybe we can, you know, encourage more people as collectors. I’m excited about this, but overwhelmed. thank you. So Thank you for bringing it to us. MR. MARKS: MR. URAM: Thomas? Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I think it’s a tremendous opportunity both from the collecting side. And I’m not going to reiterate some of the things that have already been said by my colleagues, which I agree with on all of them. Just a couple thoughts. And I think that what you’ve said is you want to remember the past and look to the future as far as the -- the designs and so forth. And I think I would have the obverse being what you’re looking for for the future and the reverse being the symbolic past, is how I’m thinking. I recently -- and when it comes to the (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 43 dollar -- and I agree with Erik and the rest, the half dollar could be so exciting if you keep it in the avenue or area of educating -- the whole thing will be educational, but particularly the affordability for the kids and so forth with the halves since that can be done. But when it comes to the dollar where you do have the larger planchet, I recently designed a medal with three busts on it. and three quarters. And I would -- it was an inch And it would be an ideal planchet for the three busts that you were discussing with T.R. And I would envision it almost to be with a Stone Mountain background. In other words, having their images like it was a very rough looking planchet with their images, which could also, you know, be part of any of the park scenes. But it could be a mountain behind them, not just the busts on the platter. But making it look like a Stone-Mountain type design. So just a -- just a thought on that. But I think that the three on the dollar, the three busts on the dollar could be where you could (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 44 set it off and then work from -- from that scope. Thank you. Good luck. MR. MARKS: MR. HOGE: Robert? Is this on? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am very interested and happy with all the suggestions that my colleagues have made here. And I’d like to espouse all of these suggestions, as well. One thing -- pardon me -- which struck me some years ago in which we haven’t discussed at all yet is that the National Park Service is the custodian of an enormous repository of specimens. I mean really important artifacts, natural history specimens. And I was actually surprised, myself, to have learned about this some years ago. And I wonder if we couldn’t make some kind of selection of particularly iconic specimens, key, important pieces because this is something that most people are not aware of. We think in terms of the wild, the wide-open spaces, the great landmark sites, but there’s an enormous, enormous body, I think it’s in the millions (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 45 of items, that are in the Park Service’s care. And including many, many very important pieces from our entire cultural and natural heritage. So this is just one perspective. I know this would be a very difficult portion of the materials related to the Park Service to address. Much more problematical than portraits or important landmarks, but I think it’s something we shouldn’t overlook because of the vast quantity and importance of these kinds of materials. MR. MARKS: Thank you, Robert. Before we wrap up this -- this discussion, I wanted to address the staff. And when I think about this program, I think about other commemorative programs where we’ve had multiple coins involved. What comes to mind for me is the Star Spangled Banner and more recently the Marshal’s series through the program. And in both of those, when we looked at the designs, we received portfolios where the artist or someone at the Mint had decided beforehand, for example, on reverses that bared the denominational (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 46 designation, which one was a half dollar, you know, designs -- which designs were half dollars, which designs were silver dollars, and which designs were gold coins. And what we have found and ultimately approved was different. We would take -- like the other one was the Five Star Generals. We ended up taking reverses that were provided to us that all said half dollar and we ended up assigning some of -- we had assigned one of those in our recommendation for the silver dollar, one for the gold. And in that process it became very confusing for the Committee to manage and keep straight. So my request, and I’ll put it in motion form if my colleagues agree with me, is that this time I’d like to try something new. I’d like to try a portfolio where the artists have prepared a series of obverses and a series of reverses. Maybe you -- you have a placeholder, a nonsense indicator for denomination, X’s, whatever it might be. usually do. And then in our evaluation we’ll do what we We’ll pick the three highest obverses, (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 47 the three highest reverses and then we can sort out a recommendation of which we believe is more appropriate for which coin. I think it would simplify what we need to do. And I know the members have been confused in these multi-coin programs before. So I see some heads nodding. What would your reaction be, April? MS. STAFFORD: So, as you know, we are always open to try something new. I think everything that we try yields results that informs how we move future programs forward. Certainly from -- from our point of view there are many of our artists who design with the size in mind. They work very hard to conceive an idea for a gold coin that will read very differently than the silver. So because we have to be very careful with our budget for each program and the number of artists that we assign, and especially in this case where we have a multi-year -- sorry, a multi-coin program that have so many possible ideas that we really do want to (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 48 see ultimately in a portfolio to see if they work together, we often have to try to steer our -- not steer our artists into a particular direction, but let them -- make sure that we break that apart so that we have a portfolio that covers that breadth. So I would just say those are considerations. I don’t know if that would impede or how that may affect the idea that you’re -- that you’re talking about, but those are some of the considerations. The design program managers are here, though. And I invite you to also share thoughts about that. Anybody? Yeah, Megan. This is Megan Sullivan, design program manager. MS. SULLIVAN: I can just say that, from experience, the artists are currently working on the Mark Twain designs, for example. And that was something that we had considered that -- that the obverses and the reverses could -- could mix and match. And it’s still true. But I kind of ran it by some of our artists, (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 49 both staff and contracted, and said, you know, what do you think? And a lot of them do design for size. They’re thinking, oh, my gosh, I can put -- I can do different things with a silver than I can with a gold. And so to try to ask them to do a design that could work for either I think could be limiting to some of them. way. You know, not everybody works that But that would be my biggest concern is that they really -- some of them really do try to work for a certain -- a certain area. In addition, there is the appearance that the gold is the more prestige product among those three. So I think that a lot of times even with an open idea, they try to put -- I don’t know how to describe it -- you know, a higher element, again, so that -- so that a silver or clad is more -- more popular, more friendly to young people whereas the gold might be a more esoteric idea. It’s hard to describe. MR. MARKS: Yeah. I appreciate what you’re saying, but I will respond by saying that the obverse of the gold Star Spangled Banner was presented to us (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 50 as a silver dollar obverse. The obverse of the silver dollar was presented to us as a $5 coin. Clearly, it was better on the silver dollar. We mixed up the Marshal’s program because what we wanted to recommend and what we -- with some of the experience that’s on this Panel have, we didn’t see it the same way. And what I’m asking for is some simplicity for your recommending body to try to sort this stuff out. Now, if you can’t do it, what I will do at the next -- when we review these is I will change how you’ve presented the portfolio to us. I will take all the obverse -MS. STAFFORD: We’re not saying we can’t do it. MR. MARKS: Okay. MS. STAFFORD: But we’d like to share with you the considerations that go into passing out these assignments and working with the artists. I know you all appreciate how much work goes into -MR. MARKS: Right. MS. STAFFORD: -- presenting them in a way (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 51 that we are properly managing our budget, our time to get the portfolio to you in a way where we’re not -we’re limiting the possibility of having to come back to you. Of course, this is a 2016 program so that’s especially of a concern here. Perhaps there’s more conversation that we need to have around this. Perhaps it’s a hybrid where we do assign these to our artists in the same way, but ask them to have placeholders for denomination and such. MR. MARKS: Sure. MS. STAFFORD: opportunities. So I think there are We just wanted to make sure that we -- as we do so, we’re not overcorrecting and getting ourselves into -MR. MARKS: Yeah. MS. STAFFORD: MR. MARKS: an issue out of this. You know -- -- a different pickle. -- we shouldn’t make too much of I mean, if -- if the artist wants to put a certain denomination on it, okay. Fine. We may just look at it differently, you know. We may, when we get the portfolio, if it’s (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 52 -- if it’s segmented up by denominations, we may just reorder in our own way how we want to look at the -the review. So if it’s -- if it’s too much of a hurdle, it’s easier for you just to go ahead as you’ve done, that’s going to be fine. But I know that in the past it has been more of a challenge for us to try to -MS. STAFFORD: MR. MARKS: -- sort things out. MS. STAFFORD: just to expand on it. Sure. We can also -- to your -- We can also support you in reordering the presentation based on a conversation that we have with you in between delivering you the portfolio and the actual presentation. MR. MARKS: Okay. I’m confident we could work that out. MS. STAFFORD: MR. MARKS: Yeah. Absolutely. All I’m doing is looking for a way where the Committee can be focusing more on the art, itself, and not be confused about what -- what -how it was presented, so we’ll work it out. All right. Erik? (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 53 MR. JANSEN: I was -- I was just going to call out a couple of things. The legislation here does not -- it’s one of the more loosely-worded pieces in terms of required inscriptions and designations and things. Certain devices are required, but they’re not stipulated as obverse devices, reverse devices. So that gives us a ton of freedom here, which also makes it a challenge to harmonize kind of a free-for-all process. We’ve seen that happen, we’re removing “In God We Trust” and it sometimes messes with the visual balance and so forth. I’m curious, when you -- Megan, when you put out the specs and the invitations to artists, does your accounting system require you to -- to tag given solicitations to a given end project? So we don’t have six designs here, we actually have three projects. MS. SULLIVAN: In terms of our accounting systems? MR. JANSEN: MS. SULLIVAN: Yeah. Yeah. We do in our -- in our system -- not put in the accounting system, but in how we put (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 54 in the requisitions and how we put in paperwork -MR. JANSEN: MS. SULLIVAN: Yeah. MR. JANSEN: -- and all the -And that’s what I’m trying to understand. MS. SULLIVAN: We do have to specify, you know, you’re assigned the gold obverse. MR. JANSEN: So if we end up taking a design which is nominally for the gold and saying, hey, that’s a half dollar design, guys, do you change -does that cause you a bunch of -MS. SULLIVAN: It causes no problems. It causes no problems. MR. JANSEN: MS. SULLIVAN: No problem? Okay. It’s just a paperwork pain for us, but -MR. JANSEN: MS. SULLIVAN: Okay. MR. JANSEN: -- (indiscernible). Okay. Okay. Yeah. It sounds to me, Gary, like -- like they’re really aware of what we’re trying to do. Because, gosh, we’ve all watched and seen the kind of mayhem that besets this process (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 55 sometimes when we are mixing and matching. It sounds like a presentation where I think out of respect we need to give the artists the ability to identify what they’re intentions were, but at the same time reserve the flexibility. Because I agree with you 100 percent, it will really make the process better if we, upfront, realize we may be moving designations around. I am so excited about this project it makes me crazy. MR. MARKS: I do think one other very easy thing to do that we should is budget a little more time when we look at this program. I think some of those other multi-coin programs we maybe shorted ourselves a little bit and then we started mixing things up and it -- it cost time and then the members started feeling pressured that we were running out of time. And I don’t want to go there. So when we put the agenda together, let’s make sure we can avoid that. So are there any other comments that we’d like to put forward for the National Parks Program? (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 56 MR. JANSEN: What’s the general timeline here for solicitation, presentation of art, so forth? MS. STAFFORD: We will be bringing these designs back to you in June. And, as everyone understands, we need to make that work. So we want to bring a fulsome portfolio, deliver it in a way where we can make some very good recommendations. Because the manufacturing time table dictates that we’ll need to be moving very quickly on the afterward. MR. JANSEN: Would there be any interest on your side, guys, from the National Park system, to develop any educational aids that go along with these? I know the Mint has done a superb job of doing some historical education products. I’m seeing such a rich opportunity here and at the same time I’m seeing an opportunity where dozens of world-class pieces of artwork are going to fly by us here and only six are going to make it to the, quote, “light of day.” And I hate to see so much effort maybe not go where somebody might want to use it. MR. LEDBETTER: No. I think so, absolutely. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 57 We haven’t had any internal discussions about that, but I think our interpretation -- interpretive and education program and our design folks would absolutely be interested in, you know, augmenting and looking into other pieces that could be a part of this. MR. JANSEN: Would designs that don’t get selected for inclusion actually on a coin be available to the Park Foundation? MR. WEINMAN: Was the -- repeat the question. MR. JANSEN: Would designs that would be part of our solicitation that we would -MR. WEINMAN: MR. JANSEN: Uh-huh. -- would whittle out from the six ultimate designs, would the Park Foundation have access to those? Can we use -- could they use -MR. WEINMAN: MR. JANSEN: MR. WEINMAN: We certainly could, yeah. -- them for other things? The answer -- yes. We would -- when we -- and we’re talking about designs that (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 58 come out of our contract artists that are our IEP artists? MR. JANSEN: MR. WEINMAN: Yeah. Yeah. MR. JANSEN: We purchase the designs. MR. WEINMAN: The U.S. Mint or -- MR. JANSEN: And so -- MR. WEINMAN: -- U.S. Government? U.S. Mint. But -- but -- but that means we could transfer them, yeah. So as long as -- probably they would need to be related to the coin program and we’d need -- we would need to construct whatever transfer it was accordingly so they couldn’t use the designs for other purposes. But if it was related to the -- to the project -MS. STAFFORD: MR. WEINMAN: The educational part. Right. And then, in fact, the assignment and release that comes with each design that comes in is written broad enough to encompass use with the -- with the coin program. MR. JANSEN: Has that ever been done before? I don’t remember having the discussion before. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 59 MR. WEINMAN: Have we ever used designs that weren’t on the coin? MR. JANSEN: Have the client or the constituent -MR. WEINMAN: MR. JANSEN: The recipient organization? Yeah. MR. WEINMAN: Yeah. Not that I’m aware of. I’m not -- I’m not aware of a recipient organization utilizing a design that was not selected for the program, but that doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen. MR. JANSEN: MR. MARKS: Thank you. All right. Is there anything else? Are there any comments from the stakeholders before we break? MR. RANO: I would just say to Heidi’s point, I think it’s a really interesting one. And, you know, the Foundation and the Service, this is one part of a push around the Centennial to engage Americans in celebrating the parks. And I think, Heidi, what you put forward ties into things that we’re talking about in other (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 60 aspects of our engagement and publicity and getting people excited about different parts that we’re talking about internally and with the Service. So from that perspective, I think it’s a great idea, as are all the others. informative. This was very And I want to thank you for having us so. MR. MARKS: Great. Thank you. We’re going to take a break -- I’m sorry. MR. LEDBETTER: Oh, yeah. I’d just like to say -MR. MARKS: I’m sorry. MR. LEDBETTER: Oh, no -- no problem. Just some parting words and also echo the thanks for the opportunity to be in front of the Board. A lot of great ideas were -- were surfaced through this discussion. I want to echo the need to use this opportunity to depict the aha moment was mentioned earlier. And at the heart of the Park Service’s mission we very much try to lead people to those aha moments. I think those encapsulate an awful lot about what the Park Service is about. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 61 The -- the debt that we owe to Native Americans and the need to be respectful of that and inclusive is also an absolutely spot-on recommendation. I’m going to take back the recommendation about our collections and just do some initial reach out to some of those folks and see if there’s something that might surface there. That was a great thought, as well, and the match-up designs. Something that echoes some other things we’re doing. So just thank you very much. discussion. A great A lot of food for thought and we really appreciate it. MR. MARKS: Thank you. a recess for 15, 20 minutes. We’re going to take And when I can gather you all back, we’ll get going again. We’re in recess. (In recess at 10:32 a.m., until 10:50 a.m.) MR. MARKS: the record. Okay. All right. We’re back on And our next item is a discussion about concepts and themes for potential special products for 2016. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 62 So, April, can you enlighten us on all of that, please? MS. STAFFORD: Yes, sir. These are potential special products for 2016. They would include 24-karat gold 100th Anniversary coins for the Walking Liberty half dollar design, the Standing Liberty quarter dollar design, and the Mercury Dime design. So some background. 2016 marks the 100th anniversary of three iconic United States Mint coins, specifically the designs for Standing Liberty quarter dollar, the Mercury Dime, and the Walking Liberty half dollar. So to commemorate these milestones, the United States Mint is considering offering each of these coins, coin designs, in .9999 24-karat gold. On these potential products the original 1916 designs would be featured on each coin as the artists originally intended. If pursued, the exact size and weight of each coin will be determined through research and development. But, of course, if the Committee has any ideas or thoughts on these, we’d love to hear them (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 63 today, as well. Potential finishes for these coins might be proof, reverse proof, enhanced proof, or uncirculated. And, again, as with all of these 24-karat gold coins, if this concept is pursued, the United States Mint would seek secretary of the treasury approval to strike these gold coins under authority of 31 U.S.C. 5112(i)(4)(C). To give you some design history on each of these, the Standing Liberty was designed by Herman A. MacNeil to replace the Barber half dollar. The initial design included a bare-breasted Liberty, which proved scandalous for some influential individuals. The complaints against the design were sufficient to force a change in 1917. The redesign was extreme to the opposite degree or thought by some. Instead of covering Liberty’s breast with the same flowing material as the rest of her gown, MacNeil clothed her in chainmail. The reverse was also redesigned in 1917. The eagle was centered on the coin and three of the 13 stars were placed beneath the eagle. Beginning in (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 64 1925, the dates on the coins were recessed giving them more protection from wear. For the Mercury Dime, of course it was designed by Adolph A. Weinman to replace to Barber dime which had been in use since 1892. This new design featured a portrait of Liberty facing left wearing a winged cap. Due to the resemblance to the Roman God Mercury, the coin became popularly known as the Mercury Dime. The reverse features a Roman fasces and an olive branch indicating America’s military readiness, but also her desire for peace. The Mercury Desigm -- Dime is considered one of the most popular in all of American numismatics. For the Walking Liberty, after winning a competition created by the Commission of Fine Arts in 1915, Adolph A. Weinman’s now iconic Walking Liberty was born. Since 1986, a modification of Weinman’s obverse design has been used for the United States Mint’s American eagle silver program. So with that background information, I’d (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 65 like to turn it over to the Committee for questions and discussion. MR. MARKS: questions. Yeah. I have some immediate Are you retaining the denomination for each of these? MS. STAFFORD: So I would like to invite Jason Laurie, one of our program managers from sales and marketing, to come up or Nanette Evans, who works in our sales and marketing, to comment. So -- okay. So would you -- I’m sorry. Would you repeat the question for -MR. MARKS: The question is we’re looking at a dime, quarter, and half dollar. MS. STAFFORD: MR. MARKS: Uh-huh. Well, we -- if we’re going to celebrate these dimes, quarters, and half dollars, are we celebrating those or are we celebrating something else? What are you going to do denominations? MS. EVANS: The intent was to emulate the coins in its original design back in the time. But the denominations, we wanted to keep the denominations (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 66 the same as what it was years ago. MR. MARKS: Okay. MS. EVANS: Yes. MR. MARKS: Okay. So we’d have a gold dime? I’m loving that. I think that’s -- so are -- on the quarter, are we keeping the controversial bare breast? MS. EVANS: That’s open for discussion. Because initially that was our thought, but it was controversial back in the day. So we just wanted to get your recommendations on whether we continue with the design knowing that the bust is going to be revealed and it’s going to be controversial. MR. MARKS: For my two -- MS. STAFFORD: MR. MARKS: I was going to give -- MS. STAFFORD: MR. MARKS: -- and -- -- my two cents on it. MS. STAFFORD: MR. MARKS: Of course -- Well, of course -- Or my 25 cents on it. MS. STAFFORD: And I would just add, of course, that would mean if -- this would impact whether this were pursued or not because this is all (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 67 predicated on the idea of honoring the 100th anniversary. So if it were not that design, it would not be the 1916 design and -MR. MARKS: Right. I -- thank you. I think if you want to honor the 1916 Standing Liberty quarter, you need to honor it. MS. EVANS: Absolutely. And we just wanted to get your feedback on that. MR. MARKS: I’d like to think we’ve come a little bit of a distance since 1916 and we can handle what was intended for this -- this coin. MS. EVANS: Absolutely. MR. MARKS: My next question is are we talking -- if we want to honor the design, these designs were created for these coins in the diameters that they were issued. So it was a dime, a quarter, and a half dollar, each of them were the size, obviously. So if we’re -- if we’re doing that, are we talking about fractional gold? MS. EVANS: Yes. MR. MARKS: We are? (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 68 MS. EVANS: Yes. MR. MARKS: Okay. the bullion content of each? So what -- what would be Do we know that or is it just going to be whatever it happens to be or are you going to try to strive for a tenth, a quarter ounce, what have you? MS. EVANS: That’s what we’re striving for, MR. MARKS: So a round -- MS. EVANS: -- and a quarter. MR. MARKS: -- some kind of round, a tenth -- Yes. fractional indication? MS. EVANS: That’s correct. MR. MARKS: Okay. are my questions. Someone else? MS. STAFFORD: really quickly. I had -- those -- those So if I -- so I could add So, of course, that latter I think is what sales and marketing intended when they indicated that some of that would have to be worked out through research and development. MS. EVANS: Yes. MR. MARKS: Yeah. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 69 MS. STAFFORD: And just -- just for the record because we’re discussing it, I would be remiss if I did not share with this Committee that when we presented the high-relief designs to the Commission of Fine Arts last week there were comments from two of the members that some of those obverse designs they found to be offensive. They did not specify which designs. I would want to share that with you. And but Of course, you know you are familiar with that portfolio and understand that they are fully clothes. And if I could ask the callers who are joining in via conference call to mute your line, please. So I just wanted to introduce that because I think given that information, and it has been picked up by some of the numismatic press, it would be helpful if this Committee could speak to that specifically in regard to the 1916 Standing Liberty design. Thank you. MR. MARKS: direction. Well, I appreciate your There have been private mints that have (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 70 taken these very designs and they’ve put them on oneounce silver planchets, you know, without the denomination. And I think that’s wrong because the artist designed these particular coins to fit the pallet, the size of the coin. And I think it would be a shame to try to put them on some other different size. It’s just not what they were designed for. So, Mike? MR. MORAN: first. I’ve got a couple questions What date are you going to place on these coins? MS. EVANS: We’re looking to put a range. MR. MORAN: In the 16, 16? MS. EVANS: Yes. MR. MORAN: Okay. Be a little tough to fit that in, particularly on the Mercury Dime. Are you going to saddle these coins with the inscription .999 Fine one or -- frankly. MS. EVANS: Yes. We have to. MR. MORAN: You’re going to ruin them, quite Because you end up with the one dime, then .999 Fine, and I don’t -- well, maybe you can find (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 71 someplace to put it that is unobtrusive. I hope you can because I feel like you’re going to do this. Please stay to the original planchet diameter. If you end up trying to deal with the gold, do it through the thickness of the planchet and not the diameter. Please stay true to the designs. And I think you’re going to have a difficult time with those dates. about that. I think you have to think You may want to -- I would suggest a 2016, but I just don’t -- you know, you look at that time and you put it on a dime-size planchet, yeah, I think you’re headed for trouble there. So to the quarter, first of all, that was not MacNeil’s intended design. modifications made at the Mint. That’s a historical fact. There were You can check. And that is really why they went back in 1917 and modified it. MacNeil never saw or signed off on the 1916 version. This is just history for you. And the Mint was so embarrassed about it that they waived the 25-year rule, just overlooked it, even though the design was placed in circulation and (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 72 allowed the adjustments. As to the covering up of the breast, there’s all kinds of numismatic lore and most of it’s crap, by the way, about those kinds of things. And you should ignore it. And you should ignore the comment about, as Gary said, the breast being exposed. I having personally owned a 1917 version and it is handsome, it is well done, it’s tastefully done. And you should stand the -- I don’t think you’ll get any criticism out of that at all. You may -- there’d be one or two prudes, but I was very surprised that you got that out of CFA of all places. So if you go forward with the gold, I think that’s the format you need to go with. got to put the 999 Fine on it, okay. somewhere. And if you’ve Hide it Don’t put it out there where it’s bold. I’d also like to throw out another suggestion particularly on the 1916 quarter. were only 52,000 of those minted. There Most of them are not in uncirculated. And I think it would be really neat if you (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 73 guys would come out with these coins in silver and make a package of it or sell them separately. But in the terms of the silver, I think you really ought to look at putting the date 2016. You absolutely cannot put 1916 on these because you’ll mess up the marketplace and cause all kinds of controversy. And one way you might do it is also have them strike at West Point so you’ve got a W Mint mark. But there’s some things to think about on that. But I really think that if you’re going to put them out in gold, you ought to put them out in silver, too. MR. MARKS: legal counsel. I guess I have a follow up for Greg, does the Mint have legal authority to strike these as coins in silver? MR. WEINMAN: Questionable. And I can’t give you an answer sitting here. MR. MARKS: MR. WEINMAN: That’s okay. We don’t have the same legal authority for silver coins that we do for gold. MR. MARKS: MR. WEINMAN: Right. MR. MARKS: It’s unlike -- it’s unlikely. I love the idea, Mike. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 74 MR. MORAN: Yeah. MR. MARKS: I wish it could happen. And if it can happen, I would -- I would be very supportive of it. But -MR. WEINMAN: I think it’s -- I think it’s -- I think it’s unlikely that we would have the authority right now without legislation. MR. MARKS: Okay. I would agree with Mike’s comment not to do the dual dating. MS. EVANS: Okay. MR. MARKS: These are classics. MS. EVANS: Okay. MR. MARKS: I would have preferred you not to do the dual dating on the Kennedy half dollar, too. I guess it turned out all right. But especially two of these are smaller planchets and the way the dates on the Walking Liberty half dollar, it’s going to change the feel of it because you’re -- I don’t know. I’m not a big fan of the dual date. MS. EVANS: Okay. MR. MARKS: Heidi, do you want to go? MS. WASTWEET: First of all, I like this (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 75 program. We talk a lot on this Committee about doing modern designs and looking ahead to the future, but we still do want to honor our heritage in this organization. And so I think this is a very exciting project and I’m looking forward to seeing it. As far as the metal content information, is it possible to edge letter that? very, very tiny. I know the dime is Is that a possibility? MS. STAFFORD: Do we have -- Steve Antonucci, are you on the line? MS. KELLEY: Not Steve. MS. STAFFORD: MR. ANTONUCCI: MS. STAFFORD: MR. ANTONUCCI: Okay. Stacy Kelley? I’m here. I’m here. Oh, go ahead, Steve. No. I’m sorry. Ask the question again. MS. WASTWEET: Hi, Steve. Is there any possibility of edge lettering these with the gold content information? MR. ANTONUCCI: MS. WASTWEET: MR. ANTONUCCI: Oh, on the dime? Yeah. Yeah. It’s pretty small. That’s extremely (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 76 tiny. I would have to say no, Heidi. MS. WASTWEET: MR. BUGEJA: Okay. You -- this is Michael. might also want to consider privy marks. You I mean, their intention is for issues just like this. If you have to put the -- the 999 percent gold, you might want to experiment with that. MS. WASTWEET: Okay. Okay. My second comment is we’re talking about being true to the original image of the sculpt. Let’s also consider the original finish to the coin. Some of our -- I’m presuming you want to do a proof version of this. MS. EVANS: Yes. MS. WASTWEET: But let’s also think about the original finish of these coins. They were not highly frosted like some of the modern gold pieces that we’re doing right now. And that might unintentionally obscure some of the original design. So let’s be sensitive to the finish. MR. ANTONUCCI: That’s it. What was that finish, Heidi? Do you know? (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 77 MS. WASTWEET: Say that again, Steve. MR. ANTONUCI: What was the finish, do you MS. WASTWEET: I’m not the historian. know? MR. MARKS: Chime in there, Mike. MR. MORAN: Steve, it was basically uncirculated. I’m not even sure they did proof issues of any of these. In fact, I’m sure they did not do proof issues of any of the three of these. MR. ANTONUCCI: MS. KELLEY: Okay. And, Steve, this is Stacy. Just looking at the pictures here it -- I agree with what Michael just said. It looks like it’s just basically a circulating finish. MR. ANTONUCCI: MR. MARKS: Okay. I guess I would add to that that the way you did the Kennedy series, I think that was nice. There was proof finish, there was uncirculated finish, and so forth. I don’t know if you need to do it to the extent you did it with the Kennedy. If you had to do just one finish, I’d say do the uncirculated because that’s what going -- if you (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 78 want to honor the design, the guys who designed these never intended it to have those sharp contrasts. It might be interesting to see if you get itchy and you’ve got to do it, okay. It would cause a buzz. But I would first make sure you’ve covered your bases with the -- something that approximates to the original, uncirculated finish. MR. ANTONUCCI: MR. JANSEN: Okay. I -- I would stand here and really encourage you to trust the judgment and advice of the two really world-class historians we have on this Committee, Robert and Mike. I mean, these guys know what they’re talking about. MR. MARKS: MR. JANSEN: experts here. about. Numismatic historians. Absolutely, the numismatic They really know what they’re talking And I would only echo specifically stick to the original diameters, make your -- make your gold assayer work on thickness, stick to the original finish, don’t -- don’t shotgun blast the market. Well, we’ll offer this in proof and uncirculated and this and that, no. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 79 Go with the original finish. out, don’t make it crazy. Don’t buff it Just do the best possible -- I mean, do it with the integrity that they did it in 1916. They did it with heart. I love the idea of some kind of a silver cohort piece. Greg, does copper nickel get a different answer than silver? MR. WEINMAN: MR. JANSEN: better, didn’t I? On circulating coinage? No. Yeah. No. I was hoping, but I knew And I wouldn’t -- I wouldn’t -- I wouldn’t push to the point of breaking one’s self on that effort. That is to say, don’t turn these into like-diametered metals in order to get out from under the monetized currency governing law. If you can’t do it in a kind of 2016 restrike mode, don’t hurt yourself. with the gold. Just go forward I would tell you, this would be a knockout product. I mean, we’re not talking tens of thousands of units. This would be a knockout project if there was a silver 2016 restrike available in the three coins in a set. MR. MORAN: Bar the doors knockout product. Everybody that -- everybody that (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 80 collects these coins will have to have it, period. MR. JANSEN: I mean, you would go through seven digits of product volume. encourage stick to finish. than Gary on this. with 1916 - 2016. But I would strongly I’m a little different Don’t -- don’t muck up the dates Don’t do it. You’ll make -- on the dime you’ll destroy the date field, on the half you’ll destroy the -- the plateau that she’s walking on, and on the quarter you’ll just run out of space and you’ll have to split the lines or make the font so small it’s just crazy. Don’t -- MS. WASTWEET: So you’re saying just do 2016? MR. JANSEN: 2016. Don’t change the relief profile, don’t fix the wear problem on the quarter, don’t do it. Don’t worry about public comments about the -- the propriety issue on the Standing Liberty quarter. Truly, all press is good press. It isn’t political truth. a marketing truth. encouraged you. It happens to be And stand in the wind, as Mike You’ll get a few letters. You’ll get a few letters if you don’t do anything at all. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 We’ve Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 81 already seen that. So don’t worry about a few letters you get. I think it’s a great product. simple. Keep it Don’t do 18 different varieties and we’ll have a great product. MS. LANNIN: Thank you. I find it amazing that in 2015 somebody is complaining about something that’s almost 100 years old, a design. That just blows me away. I agree with my colleagues, I think it should remain one date. I think it should remain the original finish. I think the art should remain as intended. And but I’m really concerned, I want the diameter to be the same. do whatever. Worry about the thickness, But and if there’s a way to make this in silver, sign me up. MR. VIOLA: colleagues. Well, I just concur with my The -- I love the idea of a silver product if at all possible. And I certainly would hate to see double dates on that. I think it would really just ruin the appearance. So I do think it’s a brilliant idea and let’s try to have the silver as an option. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 82 MR. MARKS: Thank you, Herman. quick -- quick question for Greg. I’ve got a Greg, something in the recesses of my mind tells me that in statute it says the Mint has the authority to strike platinum in any denomination. MR. WEINMAN: That’s true. We have broad platinum authority. MR. MARKS: So we could produce a silver colored version of this coin or these coins? MR. WEINMAN: MR. MARKS: MR. JANSEN: Uh-huh. Do it. You wouldn’t sell a million of those. MR. MARKS: sell a number. No. But you’d sell -- you’d Oh, yeah. MR. MORAN: Yeah. Guys, that’s a good idea. Don’t -- don’t -MR. MARKS: Don’t dismiss that idea. MR. MORAN: No. MR. MARKS: That’s powerful. No. Jean? MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Thank you, Gary. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 I Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 83 would like to congratulate the Mint on your recent Lincoln penny where you restruck that basin. It’s absolutely superbly beautiful. And my question is are -- are you intending to do the same thing with these coins to strike it with a depth in the basin or are you going to make it flat? MS. EVANS: I defer to you, Stacy. MS. KELLEY: Yes. I think that that’s definitely an option -MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Good. I would encourage -MS. KELLEY: -- that we can look into. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: I would encourage you to do that because, you know, that’s what makes these coins so fabulous is that, you know, we have that depth. The thing that has been so annoying to me is our recent coins have been struck so flat we’re losing -- we lose the image. And I think it’s unjust to the artist that worked so hard to do these designs and then we -- then we strike them so quickly and so shallowly we don’t have power in them. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 84 So that’s my only comment except if you could put the 9999 on the edge would be great. Thank you. MR. MARKS: MR. URAM: Go ahead, Tom. Okay. I think it’s a great idea. I guess what I’m thinking about, though, is the -- are you going to sell all three together? I think the packaging should be different to commemorate this event versus the traditional packaging that is for the three-piece sets now. I could see this more in the Teddy Roosevelt portfolio type where you could have the story of all three artists and the history behind the packaging. I just think that the packaging can create a get historic event versus just the piece with a -- with a bifold and so forth. So I would encourage some creativity in the packaging. Are you going to sell them by the threes -a three pack or you’re not that far along or? MS. EVANS: We’re not that far along. But the thought was actually to offer them individually as well as a three-coin set. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 85 MR. URAM: MS. EVANS: MR. URAM: Okay. But it’s still under discussion. Right. Well, however you did it, you know, each one should -- if you did a standalone, once again, not the normal just flip box with the encapsulations. I think it ought to be something that’s very creative and artistic in design. I have to kind of respectfully consider the silver aspect that everyone’s talking about because I look at it if I own a 1916 quarter and you give me a silver one that even though it’s dated 2016, I don’t know, it’s kind of like when Redbook -- the original Redbook was reproduced again. You own the original Redbook, you own the original one and it taints the market. So I understand where my colleagues are coming from, but if I owned the 2000- -- the 1916, I wouldn’t want it redone in silver personally. MR. MARKS: MR. URAM: How do you feel about platinum? Platinum, I don’t know. -- platinum’s different. MR. MARKS: I’m op- Silver in color, though. All right. (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 86 MR. URAM: But I under- -- I respectfully just have to consider that further. But I would be very concerned if I owned the original that -MR. MARKS: MR. URAM: Yeah. I love that I think we’re going down a different path on that. But the three -- three-piece gold one, just make sure that it’s really -- this is a great opportunity to honor and celebrate this occasion. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. MR. MARKS: Tom. I don’t think you need to worry, And I think it’s off the table. I don’t think it’s there. MR. URAM: MR. MARKS: So I can go out and buy one now. You know, actually thinking more about the gold and platinum, if I’m a person on a limited budget and I want to buy one of them, personally I’d buy the platinum. MR. JANSEN: MR. MARKS: MR. JANSEN: MR. MARKS: Are you? I would. I would, too. I’d buy the platinum first. That would be -- (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 87 MR. JANSEN: MR. MARKS: So would I. -- my priority. MR. JANSEN: Yeah. MR. MARKS: Robert? MR. HOGE: comments here. I concur with all my colleagues’ And I think it’s really thrilling to see these wonderful designs from 1916 being honored in this way because these are such an important part of our entire heritage of American coinage. I think we missed the boat, for instance, with the March of Dimes coins in not doing them in the dime format. And here I think we’re going to be able to capture something that will be really desirable for collectors. Thank you. MR. MARKS: All right. Thank you, Robert. Are there any other follow ups or comments? Heidi? MR. BUGEJA: MR. MARKS: MR. BUGEJA: MR. MARKS: MR. BUGEJA: Just to -- just to -Oh, go ahead, Rob- -- Michael. -- Michael -Go ahead, Michael. I just wanted to weigh in on (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 88 the 1916 bare breasted Lady Liberty. to go with that. I think you have And, you know, there are other designs of wonderful coins that are coming up in the next few years. dollar. And I’m thinking of the 1921 peace I know it’s somewhat off, but, you know, the original design was the eagle breaking the sword. And I don’t know if you’ve ever seen that design. It’s truly fetching. A wonderful coinage package would be to -- to reproduce the 1921 peace dollar in gold with a concomitant silver with the original reverse. Just a numismatic curiosity, but I thought I’d throw it out there. MR. MARKS: That’s all. Okay. MS. WASTWEET: I just want to add, thank you for bringing us in this early in the conversation so that we can have this -MS. LANNIN: Yes. MS. WASTWEET: -- this input. I really appreciate that. MS. EVANS: Thank you. MR. MARKS: And so we’ll just wrap it up. And I’ll just make a final comment that as far as (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 89 putting the bullion -- the designation on there, I wouldn’t do it. here. You’re not selling a bullion coin You’re selling a commemoration of these coins as they were in 1916. I think the people who buy them, they’re going to know. You’re going to put it on the packaging, you know, obviously what -- what it is. I think that’s enough. MS. EVANS: Okay. MR. MARKS: Everyone will understand what it is, what the content is. I would -- I would totally honor the art as it is. MR. JANSEN: I’m in on that one. Michael Bugeja had a really insightful comment that I don’t want to get lost in here. Privy marks. Use a privy mark on your .999 thing if you can -MS. EVANS: MR. JANSEN: Okay. -- if that’ll cover your bases because that will allow you to -- to include it, hopefully not destroy some important negative space in the design, comply, but not overwhelm. Because if you were to take just for the (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 90 Mercury Dime, for instance, if you were to take that dime designation -- well, that was well done whoever’s running the screen here. If you were to take the dime designation and just kind of flatten that font and then lay the .999 above it, it’s pretty subtle. But I’d rather see a privy mark in some soft, subtle field. MR. WEINMAN: MR. MARKS: Gary? I would indicate that that privy mark would simply be small letters AU for gold. MR. JANSEN: MR. WEINMAN: There you go. MR. MARKS: Gary? A small AU would say that it’s gold. MR. WEINMAN: briefly. Just a comment on that, just While we probably have legal authority to have flexibility with respect to any inscription on this type of a gold coin, there might be other -other reasons why we need to identify the gold content. There could be consumer protection reasons that we need to do so. MR. MARKS: Okay. Would -- (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 91 MR. WEINMAN: And so I would take it under advisement, but I can’t say here sitting at the table without doing the research that there might not be other authorities or other -MR. MARKS: Understood. MR. WEINMAN: MR. MARKS: -- regulations out there -Sure. MR. WEINMAN: -- that would require us to identify it. MR. MARKS: that to minimize it? Is it possible if you have to do Like, I mean, it’s understood what AU means or would it have to be the English word gold? MR. WEINMAN: Although that doesn’t necessarily identify the fineness. MR. MARKS: It could be -- MR. WEINMAN: Okay. -- it could be 24 karat or 22 -MR. MARKS: MR. WEINMAN: If you had to do that -- MR. MARKS: -- be 22 karat. MR. WEINMAN: -- use the complete .999AU. But there might be other ways (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 92 to do it. MR. MARKS: I’m suggesting if you have to do it, find a minimal way of doing it. I think everyone would agree. MR. WEINMAN: Understood. MR. MARKS: All right. MR. MORAN: Let me add one more thing. I would suggest also that it be basically where the Mint marks were on those original coins and that’s where you would put the privy mark. I think you put it -- you can do an AU and a 24 right above it and that says -- it gives you the pureness. MR. MARKS: Yeah. Okay. Is there anything else? Anything from staff? Okay. I just want to, while we’re still on the record, talk quickly about our meeting in Portland. This Committee will be taking our road -- our show on the road and appearing for public input -I’m pulling up the calendar here -- on March 5th. We’ll be having an all-day meeting in Portland, Oregon, as part of the American Numismatic Association (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 93 money -- what do they call that -- money show. The money show. And then the morning of Friday the 6th we’ll be conducting a public input session between 9 a.m. and 11. And at that session we anticipate taking input from the public about various coin design issues, thoughts, ideas for commemoratives perhaps, and also providing some educational opportunities for those who want to attend. So I just want the press here to know of our plans and that we will be in Portland, Oregon, in March. So is there anything members would like to add before we go? MR. MORAN: or a question. A point of clarification, Gary, What nights are we on the Mint’s clock for this meeting in terms of what they’ll pay for? MR. MARKS: I think -- I think we can get an answer off line, but let’s -- let’s get an answer for you when we’re done here. All right. I think we’re done here. And I want to thank everyone for a fabulous two days. I (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 94 think we accomplished a lot. Thank for the -- to the staff for all of your -- both your preparation and your support here as we went through all of the issues. So thank you all and until we see you again in Portland. We are adjourned. MR. BUGEJA: Thank you, Gary. (Adjourned at 11:22 a.m.) (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 95 CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC I, NATALIA THOMAS, the officer before whom the foregoing deposition was taken, do hereby certify that the witness whose testimony appears in the foregoing deposition was duly sworn by me; that the testimony of said witness was recorded by me and thereafter reduced to typewriting under my direction; that said deposition is a true record of the testimony given by said witness; that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties to the action in which this deposition was taken; and, further, that I am not a relative or employee of any counsel or attorney employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. NATALIA THOMAS Notary Public in and for the VIRGINIA My commission expires: Notary Registration No.: (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015 Capital Reporting Company Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting, 28 January 15 96 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTION I, LISA BEAUCHAMP, hereby certify that I am not the Court Reporter who reported the following proceeding and that I have typed the transcript of this proceeding using the Court Reporter's notes and recordings. The foregoing/attached transcript is a true, correct, and complete transcription of said proceeding. _______________ ________________________ February 3, 2015 LISA BEAUCHAMP Transcriptionist (866) 448 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2015