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Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 CCAC MEETING 13 14 Tuesday, January 24, 2023 15 1:05 p.m. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Reported by: Shondra Dawson 24 25 JOB No.: 5602037 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 Arthur Bernstein 3 Harcourt Fuller 4 Sam Gill 5 Dean Kotlowski 6 John Saunders 7 Mike Moran 8 Robin Salmon 9 Donald Scarinci 10 Dennis Tucker 11 Peter van Alfen 12 Lawrence Brown 13 Ventris Gibson 14 April Stafford 15 Megan Sullivan 16 Roger Vasquez 17 Pam Borer 18 Russell Evans 19 Boneza Hanchock 20 Joseph Menna 21 Michael Costello 22 Jennifer Warren 23 Greg Weinman 24 Robin Terry 25 Brendan Tate www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 3 P R O C E E D I N G S 1 THE CHAIR: 2 I call this to order, this meeting of 3 the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee for Tuesday, 4 January 24, 2023. 5 a look back at 2022, this meeting in fact will actually 6 demonstrate the excitement that we have for this coming 7 year. I would like to remind each member of the 8 9 While we will pause for a second to take Committee to mute his or her phone or microphone on the 10 Microsoft Teams program, when not talking, and to please, 11 dear sir/dear ma'am, announce your name at the beginning of 12 each time that you speak. 13 the public that this is a listening-only hearing and to 14 mute their microphones as well. Before we begin, I want to introduce the members 15 16 of the Committee. 17 your name. 18 public. Please respond "present" when I call Arthur Bernstein; representing the general 19 MR. BERNSTEIN: 20 THE CHAIR: 21 MR. FULLER: 23 THE CHAIR: 25 Present. Dr. Harcourt Fuller; recommended by the speaker of the House. 22 24 Additionally, I'd like to remind Present. Sam Gill, representing the general public. MR. GILL: Present. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 4 1 THE CHAIR: Dr. Dean Kotlowski; specifically 2 qualified in American history. 3 MR. KOTLOWSKI: 4 THE CHAIR: 5 in medallic arts or sculpture. 6 MS. SALMON: 7 THE CHAIR: 8 Present. Robin Salmon; specifically qualified Present. Mike Moran; recommended by the Senate majority leader. 9 MR. MORAN: Present. 10 THE CHAIR: Dennis Tucker; specifically qualified 11 in numismatics. 12 MR. TUCKER: 13 THE CHAIR: Present. Dr. Peter van Alfen; specifically 14 qualified as a numismatic curator. 15 MR. VAN ALFEN: 16 THE CHAIR: 17 Present. John Saunders; recommended by the House minority leader. 18 MR. SAUNDERS: 19 MS. WARREN: Present. And, excuse me, this is Jennifer 20 Warren. 21 could just mute your phone, don't go ahead and mute in the 22 system, and then unmute, that would be helpful because we 23 get feedback. 24 is Jennifer Warren. 25 Mr. Saunders, when you're not speaking, if you So, I just appreciate it. MR. SAUNDERS: Okay. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Thank you. This Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 5 THE CHAIR: 1 Based on what I've heard, I know that 2 we are not expecting Donald to join us, so we do have a 3 quorum. The agenda for today's public meeting includes the 4 5 following. Swearing in of our new CCAC member, John 6 Saunders; approval of the minutes and letters to the 7 secretary for the November 15, 2022, meeting. 8 Fiscal Year 2022 accomplishment as reflected in the annual 9 report. A summary of And finally, a review and discussion of the 10 candidate designs for the Harlem Hellfighters Congressional 11 Gold Medal. Before we begin these proceedings, I ask that the 12 13 Mint Liaison to the CCAC, Ms. Jennifer Warren, if we are 14 aware of any members of the press who have remotely signed 15 on to this public meeting? MS. WARREN: 16 Yes, sir. This is Jennifer Warren. 17 Mike Unser, founder and editor of CoinNews Media Group, 18 LLC. 19 Media. 20 now on through the internet rather than the phone. 21 that's awesome. 22 And Paul Gilkes, Coin World senior editor, Amos And sir, I believe that's because Mr. Saunders is THE CHAIR: Thank you. And For the record, I would 23 like to confirm that the following Mint staff are attending 24 the meeting today. 25 present after I've called your name. Please, sir/dear ma'am, please indicate www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 6 1 2 April Stafford, chief, Office of Design Management. 3 MS. STAFFORD: 4 THE CHAIR: 5 Present. Megan Sullivan, senior design specialist. 6 MS. SULLIVAN: 7 THE CHAIR: 8 MR. VASQUEZ: 9 THE CHAIR: Pam Borer, design manager. 10 MS. BORER: Present. 11 THE CHAIR: Russell Evans, design manager. 12 MR. EVANS: Present. 13 THE CHAIR: Boneza Hanchock, design manager. 14 MS. HANCHOCK: 15 THE CHAIR: Joseph Menna, chief engraver. 16 MR. MENNA: Present. 17 THE CHAIR: Mike Costello, manager of design and 18 Present. Roger Vasquez, senior design manager. Present. Present. engraving. 19 MR. COSTELLO: 20 THE CHAIR: Present. Jennifer Warren, director of 21 legislative and intergovernmental affairs and liaison to 22 the CCAC. 23 MS. WARREN: Present. And I also want to note 24 that Director Gibson, Ventris Gibson is on the call as well 25 because she's not on your list. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 7 1 THE CHAIR: 2 MR. SCHORN: 3 THE CHAIR: 4 Robin Terry, legal counsel to the Harlem 5 John Schorn, chief counsel. Present, it's Schorn. Schorn. My apologies. Hellfighters Congressional Gold Medal. 6 MS. TERRY: Present. 7 THE CHAIR: Brendan Tate, senior government 8 affairs specialist, Office of Legislative and 9 Intergovernmental Affairs. 10 MR. TATE: 11 THE CHAIR: Present. And finally, I want -- just want to 12 note for the record that we will be joined -- actually we 13 have been joined, as you can see them now, the liaisons for 14 the Harlem Hellfighters Congressional Gold Medal. 15 Richard Harris, who is the John L. McMullen Professor of 16 Humanities at Webb Institute in Glen Cove, New York, and a 17 member of the Board of Trustees and chair of Exhibits 18 Committee of the North Shore Historical Museum in Glen 19 Cove, New York. 20 Dr. And Dr. Salter, who is a retired U.S. Army 21 Colonel, and military historian, and African American 22 historian, and currently serves as president of the 23 Pritzker Military Museum and Library. 24 25 I'd like to begin with the Mint. Are there any issues that need to be addressed before we begin? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 8 1 MS. WARREN: Dr. Brown, this is Jennifer Warren. 2 I did see that Donald Scarinci just got on as well, so we 3 should have all members on the call. 4 THE CHAIR: Outstanding, and thank you. I'd like 5 to take just a moment to acknowledge our outgoing member, 6 Mary Lannin. 7 was initially appointed by then Deputy Secretary Raskin and 8 then reappointed by then Secretary, Mnuchin, in 2018, on 9 the recommendation of the then House Minority Leader, Nancy 10 11 Mary served on the CCAC since 2014, which she Pelosi. During her time on the CCAC, Mary served on the 12 CCAC Working Group and also served as chair of the CCAC in 13 2015 and in 2021. 14 American Numismatic Association and the American Numismatic 15 Society, as well as a member of numerous numismatic 16 societies including the Royal Numismatic Society, the Swiss 17 Numismatic Society, the San Francisco Ancient Numismatic 18 Society, the Pacific Coast Numismatic Society and the New 19 York Numismatic Club. 20 Mary is a life member of both the I consider, and I think as many members of a CCAC 21 here, consider Mary a dear friend and colleague. 22 know that many of us on the CCAC will miss her 23 contributions because -- and we will continue to embrace 24 them as we go forward because you could not be a member of 25 the CCAC and learn from the experience with Mary. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And I Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 9 1 Now we will move to the first order of business. 2 And the introduction is swearing it on Mr. John Saunders, 3 who was appointed by Secretary Yellen on December 6, 2022, 4 for the position recommended by the then House Minority 5 Leader, Kevin McCarthy. 6 I'd like to also introduce and welcome John 7 Saunders, who was appointed -- sorry about that. So, to 8 welcome him, John, you know, I know that you've been a 9 professional numismatists for many years and coin 10 collector. I often like to say I'm a coin collector more 11 than a numismatist. 12 feeling. 13 Belgium from Ancient to Modern Times. I like to welcome 14 John to the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee and look 15 forward to his contributions. I know you and I probably share that But he is a co-author of The Gold Coinage of 16 MR. SAUNDERS: 17 THE CHAIR: Thank you. Director Gibson, the Director of the 18 Mint will administer the oath to Mr. Saunders. 19 it over to Director Gibson. 20 MS. GIBSON: So, I turn Good afternoon, and thank you, and 21 welcome you all, and specifically Mr. John Saunders. 22 Dr. Brown mentioned, you are a lifelong numismatists. 23 you have attended many coin shows, you've owned and sold 24 ancient coins, and you taught college classes on the 25 history of coinage. So, for that, we say thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 As And And Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 10 1 we enthusiastically welcome you to the CCAC. Mr. Saunders, in just a moment I have the honor of 2 3 administering the oath of office to you. And with this 4 oath, you will fill the position on the CCAC appointment 5 based on the recommendation of the House Minority Leader, 6 now a House Majority Leader. 7 Speaker of the House, and join a very select and 8 prestigious group of individuals invested in U.S. coins and 9 medals. And -- I'm sorry, now the Mr. Saunders, would you please do me the honor of 10 11 raising your right hand and then repeating after me? 12 it clearly. Yes. I do solemnly swear. 13 MR. SAUNDERS: 14 MS. GIBSON: 15 MR. SAUNDERS: 16 MS. GIBSON: 17 MR. SAUNDERS: MS. GIBSON: That I will support and defend. The Constitution of the United The Constitution of the United Against all enemies, foreign and domestic. MR. SAUNDERS: 22 23 That I will support and defend. States. 20 21 I do solemnly swear. States. 18 19 I see Against all enemies, foreign and domestic. 24 MS. GIBSON: 25 MR. SAUNDERS: That I will bear true faith. That I will bear true faith. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 11 1 MS. GIBSON: 2 MR. SAUNDERS: 3 MS. GIBSON: 4 MR. SAUNDERS: 5 MS. GIBSON: 6 MR. SAUNDERS: 7 MS. GIBSON: 8 MR. SAUNDERS: 9 MS. GIBSON: 10 MR. SAUNDERS: 11 MS. GIBSON: 12 MR. SAUNDERS: 13 16 17 18 And allegiance to the same. That I take this obligation freely. That I take this obligation freely. Without any mental reservation. Without any mental reservations. Or purpose of evasion. Or purpose of evasion. And that I will and well. And that I will and well. And faithfully discharge the duties. And faithfully discharge the duties. MS. GIBSON: 14 15 And allegiance to the same. Of the office on which I'm about to enter. MR. SAUNDERS: Of the office which -- of which I'm about to enter. MS. GIBSON: Ms. Saunders, you may let your hand 19 down now. And congratulations and welcome to the Citizens 20 Coinage Advisory Committee. 21 forward to working with you, but having your input and your 22 support as we chart a path for the Mint and for the 23 American public going forward. 24 to say a few words. 25 MR. SAUNDERS: And not only do we look So, I'd like to invite you Well, thank you all. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And, you Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 12 1 know, with the one meeting beforehand, I've figured out 2 that I'm joining quite an elite group of people, quite a -- 3 people that have, you know, consistent interests in 4 numismatics coinage along with my interests. 5 pleased to be part of this group. 6 contribute in some way that's useful. 7 to meeting, really know everybody better. It's quite a nice 8 group of background. 9 committee has got something special going. 10 And I'm very And hope that I can And I look forward It does seem like everybody on the So, I thank you for letting me be part of your group. 11 MS. GIBSON: 12 THE CHAIR: Dr. Brown, your microphone is muted. I apologize. That's one of the 13 handicaps when we are in fact having these virtual 14 meetings. 15 aboard once again, and to let you know that each member of 16 the CCAC will do so in their unique way when we get 17 together next month, I have no doubt about that. 18 But Mr. Saunders, I want to again welcome you Moving on to the next order of business, and that 19 is to -- and I know that many of the members have received 20 a revised minutes. 21 a motion to say if any comments based on the revised 22 minutes of the meeting of November 15, 2022, the revision 23 was in fact… 24 25 MR. GILL: So, I'd like to in fact entertain first Mr. Chairman, this is Sam Gill. I do have one correction, and that is that I was not present at www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 13 1 that meeting, I had a travel conflict. 2 the record to reflect that accurately. THE CHAIR: 3 Thank you, Sam. And so, I'd like So, we need a motion 4 to in fact approve the minutes with the revision of in fact 5 not having Sam being present during that meeting… 6 MR. VAN ALFEN: 7 THE CHAIR: 8 MR. VAN ALFEN: Hi, this is Peter van Alfen. MR. BERNSTEIN: And this is Arthur Bernstein, 9 Go ahead, Peter. So, moved. 10 11 Mr. Chairman, this is Peter. second. 12 THE CHAIR: 13 those in favor, aye. Based on a motion and a second. 14 UNIDETIFIED SPEAKERS: 15 THE CHAIR: 16 motion? 17 approved. All Aye. Are there any objections to the If not, without objection, the minutes will be Now I'd like to have a motion to approve the 18 19 letters to the secretary from our meeting of November 15, 20 2022. 21 MR. VAN ALFEN: This is Peter van Alfen, so moved. 22 MR. GILL: 23 THE CHAIR: 24 UNIDETIFIED SPEAKERS: 25 THE CHAIR: This is Sam Gill, I second. All those in favor, aye. Aye. Are there any objections to the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 14 1 motion? If not, and without objection, the minutes and the 2 letters are now approved. 3 like us to spend a few moments about is to recognize the 4 Fiscal Year 2022 accomplishments as reflected in the annual 5 report of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee. 6 it is important that we recognize this, particularly since 7 we have returned from virtual meetings to in fact the in- 8 person meetings during, the first one in June of 2022. The next order of business I'd I think 9 The CCAC met a total of five times in fiscal year 10 2022, reviewing 15 design portfolios for programs including 11 three Congressional Gold Medals, five circulating coins, 12 one bullion, and six numismatic products, such as the 13 American Innovation dollar, and a Native American dollar. 14 With finally being in-person, we have the 15 opportunity to say formal good-byes to several of our CCAC 16 colleagues, including Tom Uram, who was recommended by the 17 United States speaker of the House, and Jeanne Stevens- 18 Sollman, who represented the interest of the general 19 public, and Robert Hoge, who was specifically qualified in 20 numismatic curation. 21 As this meeting is the last under my term as CCAC 22 chair, I will be starting the second term probably at the 23 next meeting that we need at the end of this month. 24 forward working with the CCAC because we have a lot of 25 great things ahead of us in 2023, including receiving www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I look Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 15 1 reports from the Future Numismatic Themes Working Group, as 2 well as the Semiquincentennial Working Group, which they 3 will report to us and we will in fact share that with the 4 full CCAC and the public in the upcoming year. Having then spoken about those, I'd like to move 5 6 to the next item on the agenda, which is a review of the 7 candidate designs for the Harlem Hellfighters Congressional 8 Gold Medal. 9 the interest of full transparency, I'm an Army veteran. I must tell you that and for our liaisons in 10 So, I know I have a thousand questions. But as a chair, I 11 will defer to my colleagues to let them ask the questions 12 as I know they will have. But before we do so, I'd like to turn it over to 13 14 April Stafford, who's the Chief of the Mint's Office of 15 Design Management, who will introduce the program and 16 present the obverse and reverse candidate designs with a 17 Congressional Gold Medal to the Hellfighters. MS. STAFFORD: 18 Thank you so much. First, a little 19 background on this program. It is Public Law 117-38 that 20 awards a Congressional Gold Medal to the 369th Infantry 21 Regiment, commonly known as the Harlem Hellfighters, in 22 recognition of their bravery and outstanding service during 23 World War I. 24 originally organized in 1916 as the 15th New York National 25 Guard. The unit known as the Harlem Hellfighters was They gave themselves the nickname "The Rattlers" www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 16 1 and adopted the image of a rattlesnake as their symbol. They were transported to France, re-designated the 2 3 369th Infantry Regiment and assigned to support the French 4 in spite of an official U.S. policy to keep all American 5 troops under American control. 6 Hellfighters received abbreviated training, and were issued 7 French equipment, including rifles and the Adrian helmet, 8 but maintained their Doughboy Uniforms. There, the Harlem The Harlem Hellfighters were known not only for 9 10 their bravery, but also for their morale-boosting marching 11 band. 12 introduced jazz music to European audiences. 13 ended on November 11, 1918, the Harlem Hellfighters had 14 served more days in the combat zone than any other American 15 regiment. 16 citation, and 171 members were individually awarded the 17 Croix de Guerre for bravery. Under the direction of James Reese Europe, the band When the war They were awarded a French Croix de Guerre unit The Harlem Hellfighters faced unconscionable 18 19 discrimination before, during and after the war. For this, 20 their story is disturbing and often infuriating. However, 21 it is also about the extraordinary bravery, dedication, and 22 sacrifice about the amazing courage and dignity the Harlem 23 Hellfighters exhibited in the face of battle and racial 24 prejudice. 25 As you noted before, Mr. Chairman, the Mint worked www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 17 1 with two experts in the development of this portfolio; 2 doctors Harris and Salter. 3 this discussion. 4 your time. 5 committee? Doctors Harris and Salter, appreciate Would you like to say a few words to the MR. SALTER: 6 They are joining us today for Absolutely. First of all, it is my 7 honor to be here. I am a veteran as well. And I happen to 8 be a military historian and an African American military 9 historian having the opportunity to put the history 10 together with Richard. 11 what I'm going to do is just sit and answer any questions 12 you may have. 13 and so just happy to be here. And I think I am aware of the two initial selections, MR. HARRIS: 14 It has been an honor. I also -- this is Richard Harris. 15 also am honored to be here and to be involved in the 16 discussion of the Congressional Gold Medal for the Harlem 17 Hellfighters. 18 the medal began several years ago when I found out that 19 there were, in fact, from Glen Cove, a small town on Long 20 Island, there were over three dozen members of the Harlem 21 Hellfighters on that one town. 22 and mounted an exhibit, and that was what more or less set 23 things off and finally ended up with the Congress passing 24 that and it's been signed by President Biden on August 21, 25 2021. This -- I think this whole movement towards And I began doing research So, again, I certainly appreciate this opportunity. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 18 MS. STAFFORD: 1 Thank you so much. And so, without 2 further ado, we'll share the portfolio of candidate 3 designs. 4 liaisons identified as their preferences, as well as the 5 recommendations from the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts. 6 if we could advance ahead, you'll first see Obverse 4, this 7 is the preference of both of our liaisons that are with us 8 here today. At the top, we will feature the designs that our And it is also the recommendation of the CFA. Moving on to reverses, you'll see Reverse 2. 9 So, This 10 is the identified preference of our liaisons. 11 you'll see Reverse 3, which is the recommendation of the 12 CFA. 13 to the Harlem Hellfighters' musical contribution, their 14 cultural contribution with jazz music, and appreciated very 15 much the designs, this one in particular that incorporated 16 a reference to that. 17 portfolio, that if recommended to go to the secretary, we 18 would have to reverse the position so that the American 19 flag is on the left. 20 And then The CFA felt very strongly that the design should nod And we do have two designs in the In addition to preferring this design because of 21 the musical instruments, the CFA recommended should it move 22 forward that the Croix de Guerre, which they understand is 23 very, very important to our liaisons, to be included in the 24 composition, actually become a medal and hang from a 25 ribbon, as you can see in some of the other designs, and so www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 19 1 that would mean shifting the inscriptions appropriately. 2 They also recommended that the flag depict the 3 flag that would have been in use at the time and have the 4 appropriate number of stars. 5 removing the inscription, "LET'S GO," "RATTLERS," and 6 wanted to know, you know, if the liaisons felt very 7 strongly that the campaigns that the Harlem Hellfighters 8 were involved in, if that was very, very important to be 9 included on the reverse, perhaps that is something that They suggested considering 10 could be discussed. 11 liaisons as well as the recommendation of the U.S. 12 Commission of Fine Arts. 13 So, those are the preferences of our We'll go ahead and go through the portfolio of 14 obverse designs. 15 depicts a battle-hardened Harlem Hellfighters affixing his 16 bayonet as he prepares to join his comrades in a charge. 17 The flames in the background represent battlefields 18 conditions and the infamous name of their regiment. 19 inscription is "HARLEM HELLFIGHTERS." 20 depict a uniformed World War I American infantry men from 21 the 369th Regiment with a prominent Croix de Guerre emblem. 22 The inscriptions are "HARLEM HELLFIGHTERS," "RATTLERS," 23 "15TH NEW YORK NATIONAL GUARD," and "U.S. ARMY 369TH 24 INFANTRY REGIMENT." 25 Starting with Obverse 1. Obverse 1 The Obverses 2 and 3 This is 2 and 3. Moving on to Obverse 4, which again is the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 20 1 preference of our liaisons as well as the recommendation of 2 the CFA. 3 American infantry men from the 369th Regiment. 4 inscriptions are "HARLEM HELLFIGHTERS," "15TH NEW YORK 5 NATIONAL GUARD," and "U.S. ARMY 369TH INFANTRY REGIMENT." 6 This design depicts three uniformed World War I Moving on to reverses 5 and 6. The I'm sorry, 7 observes 5 and 6. These designs depict the Harlem 8 Hellfighters in uniform along with the inscription "HARLEM 9 HELLFIGHTERS." In Design 5, seen here, he stands in a 10 World War I trench. 11 a draped American and French flag. 12 features the inscriptions "U.S. ARMY 369TH INFANTRY 13 REGIMENT" and "15TH NEW YORK NATIONAL GUARD". 14 And in Design 6, he stands in front of This design also Obverse 7 features a portrait of a Harlem 15 Hellfighter. 16 INFANTRY REGIMENT," "15TH NEW YORK NATIONAL GUARD", and 17 "ACT OF CONGRESS 2021". 18 Harlem Hellfighter in full uniform carrying his rifle. 19 inscriptions are "CHAMPAGNE-MARNE DEFENSIVE," "AISNE-MARNE 20 OFFENSIVE," and the "MEUSE-ARGONNE OFFENSIVE." 21 The inscriptions are "U.S. ARMY 369TH Obverse 8 features a portrait of a The Obverse 9 depicts two Harlem Hellfighters on a 22 battlefield in France during World War I. 23 American Doughboy uniform with the French Adrian helmet and 24 an armed -- and armed with the Lebel Model 1886 rifle. 25 inscriptions are "U.S. ARMY 369TH INFANTRY REGIMENT," www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 They wear the The Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 21 1 "HARLEM HELLFIGHTERS," and the "15TH NEW YORK NATIONAL 2 GUARD." Obverse 10 depicts four Harlem Hellfighters 3 4 charging forward from the trenches during World War I. 5 inscription is "HARLEM HELLFIGHTERS." 6 three Harlem Hellfighters in a fierce charge and the 7 inscription, "HARLEM HELLFIGHTERS." 8 Harlem Hellfighters in a trench on the battlefront. 9 inscriptions are "CHAMPAGNE-MARNE DEFENSIVE," the "AISNE- Obverse 11 features Obverse 12 depicts 10 MARNE OFFENSIVE," and the "MEUSE-ARGONNE OFFENSIVE". 11 And finally, Obverse 13 depicts two Harlem The 12 Hellfighters on the battlefront. 13 "U.S. ARMY 369TH INFANTRY REGIMENT" and "ACT OF CONGRESS 14 2021." 15 on to the reverse designs. 16 The inscriptions are Those are the obverse candidate designs. I'll move Reverse 1 features the Croix de Guerre atop 17 crossed American and French flags. 18 the design is the musical score for a passage from James 19 Reese Europe's, On Patrol in No Man's Land. 20 inscriptions are, "OVER THE TOP," "LET'S GO," "MEUSE- 21 ARGONNE," "CHAMPAGNE-MARNE," and "AISNE-MARNE." 22 The Arched over the top of The Reverse 2 features the Croix de Guerre Medal, 23 crossed American and French flags, and the coiled rattler 24 insignia, representing the accomplishments of the Harlem 25 Hellfighters. Crossed olive branches represent the peace www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 22 1 they helped bring to Europe. 2 MARNE OFFENSIVE," "MEUSE-ARGONNE OFFENSIVE," and 3 "CHAMPAGNE-MARNE DEFENSIVE." 4 preferred design of our liaisons. 5 move forward to the secretary for consideration, we will 6 have to be switching the placement of the American and 7 French flags. Again, this reverse is the And note, if it is to Reverse 3 represents a commemorative crest 8 9 The inscriptions are "AISNE- assembled from elements significant to the 369th Infantry 10 Regiment. A coiled rattlesnake insignia, the French and 11 American flags, the Croix de Guerre, a French Berthier 12 rifle, and a tenor saxophone. 13 ARMY 369TH INFANTRY REGIMENT," "LET'S GO," "RATTLERS," 14 "2021," "AN ACT OF CONGRESS." The inscriptions are "U.S. Please note, this is the recommendation of the CFA 15 16 and there are several suggested edits that they have noted. 17 I've shared those at the top of the meeting. 18 again, if this were to move forward, the American flag 19 would necessarily be placed on the left and the French on 20 the right. 21 And the Mint, Reverses 4 and 4A feature a detailed view of a 22 Doughboy Uniform with the Croix de Guerre medal. 23 inscription is "U.S. ARMY 369th INFANTRY." 24 inscription on Design 04 is "RATTLERS." 25 The The additional And 4A. Reverse 5 depicts elements closely associated with www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 23 1 the Harlem Hellfighters. The Croix de Guerre, adorned with 2 a bronze star, crossed American and French flags, the 3 coiled rattler patch, a crossed rifle and saxophone, and 4 three campaign streamers representing the "CHAMPAGNE-MARNE 5 DEFENSIVE," the "AISNE-MARNE OFFENSIVE," and the "MEUSE- 6 ARGONNE OFFENSIVE." 7 Croix de Guerre, representing the total number of medals 8 awarded to the 369th Regiment. The inscription "171" is below the Reverse 6 depicts the Croix de Guerre and the 9 10 inscriptions "U.S. ARMY 369TH INFANTRY REGIMENT," and "ACT 11 OF CONGRESS 2021." 12 Guerre and The Rattlers insignia, along with the 13 inscriptions "THE OLD 15TH," "U.S. ARMY 369TH INFANTRY 14 REGIMENT," and "ACT OF CONGRESS 2021." Reverses 7 and 7A depict the Croix de Reverse 8 depicts a crossed rifle and trombone 15 16 with American and French flags hanging, representing both 17 the bravery and the music that the Harlem Hellfighters 18 brought to Europe. 19 star and The Rattlers insignia. 20 "HARLEM HELLFIGHTERS," "AISNE-MARNE OFFENSIVE," "MEUSE- 21 ARGONNE OFFENSIVE" and "CHAMPAGNE-MARNE DEFENSIVE." 22 finally, reverses 9 and 9A feature The Rattlers insignia. 23 The inscriptions are "HARLEM HELLFIGHTERS" and "RATTLERS." The inscriptions are Mr. Chairman, that concludes the candidate 24 25 The design also features a five-pointed designs. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 24 THE CHAIR: 1 Thank you so much, April. I'm 2 pointing now back to the Committee and asking are there any 3 technical or legal questions from the Committee about this 4 program or these designs for the Harlem Hellfighters 5 Congressional Gold Medal before we begin our general 6 discussion. 7 to mention your name before you offer your comments or 8 questions. Again, ladies and gentlemen, please remember MR. VAN ALFEN: 9 Dr. Brown, this is Peter van 10 Alfen. I do have a question -- a technical question for 11 gentlemen concerning reverse number 4 and 4a. 12 that there should be sort of textured, if I understand the 13 representation here. 14 this texturing be done in production? MR. MENNA: 15 It seems And if that's so, is -- how would This is Joe Menna, Peter. We would 16 simply take the very same texture file that the designer 17 used to generate this image extensively in Photoshop or 18 perhaps SketchBook Pro and would -- we would be able to 19 actually use that to emboss the texture. 20 was necessary, we have the liberty to slightly scale it up 21 to make it readable, 3 inches. And if we felt it And same thing, the stitching would also be done 22 23 by hand. And everything here would be eminently legible. 24 The only thing I'd say we might cheat a little bit, and I 25 don't mean that, you know, you know, you know what I mean, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 25 1 the badge below "infantry", the finesse of those lines, we 2 would come up with a device to make that readable as 3 corrugated the way it is as well. 4 all this work at three inches, basically. 5 MR. VAN ALFEN: 6 THE CHAIR: 7 All right. Thank you. Are there any other questions from members of the committee? MS. WARREN: 8 9 All this -- we can make Sorry, this is Jennifer. Donald has his hand up. MR. SCARINCI: 10 A question for April. You know, I 11 think that, you know, Obverse 1 looks to me to be the most 12 artistic one. 13 committee. 14 Was it not in their consideration at all, or just a little 15 bit? Is -- was Obverse 1 close, you know, for the How did the constituent feel about Obverse 1? MS. STAFFORD: 16 So, I will say for the CFA, they 17 did not have much, if any discussion, over Obverse 1. 18 we do have our two liaisons here, doctors Salter and 19 Harris. 20 Obverse 1 as an option? Would you like to comment on your perspective of MR. HARRIS: 21 But Sure. This is Richard Harris. 22 Well, we do. We finally decided that, well, with Obverse 23 1, we didn't spend a lot of time considering that either. 24 And we decided that we liked Obverse 4 the best for several 25 reasons. For, one, it depicts several soldiers and we www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 26 1 wanted to recognize the 369th as a unit as opposed, for 2 example, to focusing on one of the greatest hero, Henry 3 Johnson. 4 and I were discussing this that there's a photo essay, I 5 guess you call it book links (ph), titled Willing Patriots. And also I know I had mentioned when Dr. Salter And I think one thing that really struck me in 6 7 going through that book was the look of -- the sense of 8 dignity that you could tell on the soldiers pictured there. 9 And I think that's one thing we wanted to try to capture 10 here. 11 would say were one that we wanted to suggest with three 12 figures the sense of the whole regiment, so to speak. 13 for me, personally, as I said, I'm so struck by the 14 photographs of that book that I hope we would be able to 15 convey something of that. 16 So, the two considerations, I think, as far as I And If I could mention one thing, I also think that 17 here that the -- on this edition, with this copy, it has 18 "15TH NEW YORK NATIONAL GUARD" and "U.S. ARMY 369TH" on the 19 obverse and the reverse, and I don't think we need to 20 repeat those. 21 actually just had the "15TH NEW YORK NATIONAL GUARD" on the 22 front with HARLEM HELLFIGHTERS and then the 369TH U.S. ARMY 23 INFANTRY REGIMENT on the reverse. 24 25 I think the last design we were looking at THE CHAIR: Thank you so much. an additional question? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Donald, you have Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 27 1 MR. SCARINCI: Yeah. If I may follow up. On 2 that reverse, how did you feel, I mean, with the Commission 3 on Fine Arts suggestion for Reverse 3, if we change -- you 4 know, if by motion after the vote, we change the legend on 5 the top? 6 picked by including the instrument? 7 I'm asking. MR. SALTER: 8 9 You think it's better or worse than the one you No. I guess that's what We spoke about this. So, we do actually like this one with the instrument because it -- 10 with the weapon and the instrument, it does highlight two 11 of the significant importance of the 369th. 12 lot of folks know the Harlem Hellfighters because of the 13 369th band. 14 that they were in the trenches and fighting longer than any 15 other regiment, so that's why the rifle. 16 this. You know, a But what we really wanted people to know is And so, we like 17 We would recommend that it would be reversed, 18 that you would have the rifle overtop of the saxophone. 19 And I guess when you're talking about the text, I'm 20 assuming you're referring to the U.S. Army 369th Infantry 21 Regiment. 22 reasons we like this combination as well is you do get both 23 of the historic names on the coin. 24 25 So, going back to Richard's point, one of the On the front side, you get the original name, the National Guard name. And on the backside, you'll get the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 28 1 Army designation name. 2 So, we would recommend, as Richard said, that only the -- 3 you know, the 15TH NEW YORK be on the front side because 4 you do have the 369TH on the back. 5 the two questions you asked. MR. SCARINCI: 6 7 8 9 So, now you're showing front four. Yes. And I think those are That's very helpful. Thank you. MR. SALTER: Yeah. And the only -- the other thing I want to say is, you know, we had a long discussion 10 when we were writing the historical overview. 11 one of the things, you know, you know, being a military 12 historian and an African-American history historian and 13 combining both of those, the African-American military 14 experience, which is what I've been studying and writing 15 about and teaching for the last 30-some-odd years, you 16 know, the magnitude of the African-American service. 17 You know, So, to go back to that first coin, you know, you 18 have one individual as very artistic, you know. But we 19 wanted to show as many folks as possible and we figured 20 that, you know, three would be the maximum. 21 that distinguish focus look of a soldier who was either 22 going into combat or soldier who has been in combat and who 23 was proud to be serving for his country. 24 know, why we like four the best because you do get these 25 three striking images. You know, with So, that's, you And one of the things -- and now as www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 29 1 I'm looking at this when the change has been made, I see in 2 the middle soldier the chin strap does match the others. 3 MR. HARRIS: Also if I could add the -- as far 4 as the reverse is concerned, if we could go back to that 5 for just a second. 6 -- it's the other one, the R-3. 7 talked last night about this for a while. 8 the flags have to be reversed with the American flag on the 9 left. Thank you. A couple of other -- by the Krewasky and I actually And certainly Also we thought that it is -- because when we 10 thought about it, it is important to have the 11 acknowledgement of the significance of the band. But as he said, we got -- we put the rifle on 12 13 top. There were soldiers first and also musicians. In 14 terms of the overall design of this, we thought probably 15 too we could eliminate the text, "LET'S GO," "RATTLERS" 16 because we have the unit's insignia with -- with the stake 17 on it. 18 recommended that the Croix de Guerre be shown as a medal to 19 be worn. 20 with the ribbon. And so, also the fine arts -- the arts committee And so, what they suggested was that it be shown 21 And we agreed that to do so, what we would need 22 to do with this design would be to make the insignia, the 23 rattlesnake smaller, so we could have that design of the 24 Croix de Guerre with a ribbon on it. 25 were the main -- I think those were the main points we had And I think those www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 30 So, that, again, just to sum up have 1 discussed last night. 2 the lettering at the top, make the -- switch the position 3 of the flags, put the rifle over the saxophone, delete 4 "LET'S GO," "RATTLERS," and put a ribbon with the Croix de 5 Guerre. 6 THE CHAIR: Much appreciated. 7 MR. SCARINCI: Mr. Chairman, before I relinquish 8 to Joe, you know, I mean, maybe we should consider -- I 9 mean, that was very articulate and very thoughtful analysis 10 of these two designs. 11 time, maybe to streamline the conversation when we're ready 12 to talk about the designs, those of us who are supporting - 13 - who would support obverse 4 and reverse 3 with an 14 amendment to make the changes as suggested, maybe we don't 15 need to speak. 16 others who feel that there is another candidate that they 17 prefer to support, maybe they could just -- I think they 18 could be the ones to speak and see if they could persuade 19 us better than the constituents have certainly persuaded 20 me… And we can save a little time. THE CHAIR: 21 22 comments. 23 But let's turn to Joe. 24 times there. 25 And maybe in order to save some And the Well, thank you so much for your We will certainly take that under consideration. MR. MENNA: He had his hand up a couple of Thank you, Mr. Chairman. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 This is Joe Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 31 Speaking to Mr. Harris' point, I was -- I paid 1 Menna. 2 attention when the CFA mentioned lowering the medal over 3 the insignia. 4 consideration, instead of really shrinking the insignia as 5 the award is gifted to these heroes, you could lower the -- 6 you could lower the medal so it overlaps the insignia just 7 a little bit, maybe shrink the insignia a touch, but by 8 having the insignia overlap -- lowering the insignia, so it 9 overlaps, not touches the snake but overlaps a little bit And I would say just as a point of 10 as it's been gifted, it's awarded to these heroes and then 11 we can give you the top of the ribbon too but not too much 12 of it, like not sure of the full ribbon. 13 if you shrink the insignia, you might lose some -- I'm not 14 going to editorialize as to what your wisdom is. 15 the insignia is important to you, that's just another 16 option I would present. THE CHAIR: 17 Because I think But if That's all. Thank you, Joe. Now I have a couple 18 of questions, I think, maybe instructive to the Committee 19 members. 20 feedback. 21 uniform? 22 about having served in the military, but it'll be 23 interesting to hear from your stories about where that came 24 from. 25 So, if I can pose them to the liaison to get some Can you share with us the term of Doughboy Where did that come from? MR. SALTER: I have never heard You want me to take that one, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 32 1 You know, that is -- Richard? 2 MR. HARRIS: Sure. 3 MR. SALTER: -- a loaded question. There are -- 4 this is one of those questions that, you know, you have 5 different answers. 6 going back to marching and your uniform getting caked up 7 with a lot of the soil and the dust. 8 know, several different interpretations. 9 you're hitting the nail on the head. But one of the ones that I stick to is But there's, you So, I think There is no one 10 historical tie to that, but that is the one that I have 11 heard the most. THE CHAIR: 12 13 Richard, do you have additional comments? 14 MR. SALTER: I think you're on mute, Richard. 15 MR. HARRIS: And Krewasky, correct me if I'm 16 wrong. 17 well go back to the Mexican War 1845-'48. MR. SALTER: 18 19 But as I remember, this -- that term Doughboy may Yeah. That's what I'm talking about, the marching in the -- 20 MR. HARRIS: Right. 21 MR. SALTER: And that's the first footage we have 22 of soldiers. Matter of fact, we have footage of buffalo 23 soldiers and rough riders as early as the Mexican -- no, 24 not the Mexican. 25 War. You're talking about the Spanish-American www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 33 1 MR. HARRIS: Yeah. Well, I've read also that 2 this -- the term may go back to the Mexican War, but 3 certainly was used during the 1898 Spanish-American War. 4 5 MR. SALTER: MR. HARRIS: 10 As you've said, I don't think there's any final agreement on it. MR. SALTER: 8 9 Spanish-American War is where I heard it from. 6 7 Yes. You're right. And of course, that has no significance on the Congressional Gold Medal. I mean, they are wearing the U.S. Army Doughboy Uniform. THE CHAIR: 11 My next question has to do with the 12 musical aspect of this. 13 the fact that they were in the trenches? So, when did that 14 manifest itself to become part of this historical picture? MR. SALTER: 15 How did that manifest itself given That is -- that's actually from the 16 very beginning. So, Richard Hayward (ph) and I know 17 Richard can jump in as well. 18 commander who was picked to recruit African-American 19 soldiers in New York. 20 thing about the Harlem Hellfighters is they had a low 21 number of African-American officers. 22 officers. 23 and his men recruited is, guess who, James Reese Europe. 24 It's just like any other thing, you know, what will allow 25 you to go out and recruit. You know, he was the And one of -- and this interesting They only have five And one of the first individuals that Hayward So, really from the very www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 34 1 2 beginning, our -- look like someone else was talking. So, really from the very beginning, the musical Pomp and Circumstance has always been 3 component was there. 4 a part of military units. 5 Europe, although the majority of the soldiers do stay 6 downrange in the trenches, the band, just like in a lot of 7 units today, is a separate entity of a regiment, of a 8 brigade, of a division or corps. 9 went on tours while the majority of the other soldiers did 10 11 And then when they get to And so, the band actually actually stay in the trenches. So, it was concurrent. And the reason I said at 12 the beginning, that's what most people know them about 13 because that is a part of the genesis also of jazz being 14 brought to Europe. 15 can go back to a few stories before then. 16 the popular vision that a lot of the French had and a lot 17 of the Americans remember from the 369th. 18 Of course, you know, there was -- you And so, that is It's almost like the entertainment arena gets 19 more visualization today. But we thought the weapon needed 20 to be there because they were American soldiers. They did 21 spend 191 days in the trenches. 22 German casualties as early as 14 15 April. 23 individuals who shot one of the first Germans, and those of 24 you who are artists know of Horace Pippin. 25 was a 369th Infantry soldier. They had their first www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And one of the Horace Pippin Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 35 1 So, I mean I could go on and on but the genesis 2 of the saxophone and the band really goes back to the very 3 beginning with recruiting and it lasted throughout. 4 unfortunately, as we know, James Reese Europe lost his life 5 just months after coming back and getting into a scuffle 6 with a band member. I believe they were in New York. I 7 don't know if you want to add anything else, Richard. I 8 think you went back on mute, Richard. 9 and went back on mute. 10 MR. HARRIS: That's right. And You came off of mute As you said, the band 11 was a very important element of the 369TH. 12 February of 1919 when the 369th returned, there was a march 13 up, a parade up Fifth Avenue and the band was a big part of 14 that also from basically, Madison Square around 23rd Street 15 up into Harlem. 16 And in fact, in And the band was a big part of that. So, that's why we thought about at least 17 recognizing the band not only for that but also of course 18 it's said because it was really the James Europe's band 19 that brought jazz to Europe, to France. 20 from everything I've read was not simply interesting to the 21 French, but they went crazy over jazz. 22 MR. SALTER: Yeah. And evidently, They loved it. From the time they stepped 23 off the ship that they were playing jazz music. And playing 24 the French national anthem actually is one of their first 25 songs they played when they arrived on New Year's Eve, New www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 36 1 Year's Day of 1918. 2 THE CHAIR: One of the benefits of being on the 3 CCAC is to hear about the historical context of the 4 programs that we are reviewing. So, for that reason that 5 I've asked you these questions. I have one other question 6 that has to do with context, and then I'll turn to design 7 issue. 8 century since these, in fact, soldiers, in fact did their 9 heroic events. I'm sort of curious, out of almost more than a What do you think are the factors that explain 10 11 that has taken us as a country so long? 12 you shared with us, were it not for those members from Glen 13 Cove, New York, I'm not sure that we might be where we are 14 now today. 15 you, whether you can help us to appreciate the importance 16 of this real gold medal, Congressional Gold Medal, in light 17 of what you know about the historical context why are we 18 here today? 19 And that, Richard, So, I'm just curious about -- from the two of MR. HARRIS: Well, I think the one thing, it was 20 very interesting, when we had at the museum I worked with, 21 in November of 2017, we had a celebration there of the 22 Harlem Hellfighters and actually a -- the Purple Heart was 23 given to the daughter, Sophie (ph) of Long Island, the 24 daughter of one of the Harlem Hellfighters. 25 It's been very difficult for us to locate other www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 37 It's something that the Committee -- the 1 descendants. 2 Harlem Hellfighter Recognition Committee that I've been 3 chair of, that we've been working on. 4 very quickly that at that gathering in the museum, I am 5 sure that we were far over the limit for people as far as 6 the fire marshal was concerned. But I would say this But half a block away, there was a fire on that 7 8 very morning. And he ended up being up there and didn't 9 come down to see if we have far too many people in the 10 museum. But it's -- I think, in part, it's just a 11 fascinating story. 12 interested in the First World War and I knew who the Harlem 13 Hellfighters were. And as I said, what I -- I've long been But when I started going through old newspaper 14 15 articles from 1918 in the local library and I saw here the 16 names of all these people, here's -- this happened, that 17 happened, I thought it was an absolutely fascinating story 18 that really should be brought to the attention, at least, 19 of the community. 20 Glen Cove who were Tuskegee Airmen, and my wife and I 21 interviewed one of them. 22 together. 23 And there were also a couple of men from And so, the whole thing then came Mr. Krewasky, if you want to, Salter? MR. SALTER: Okay, yes, so I'll try to give you a 24 historical overview that actually kind of starts back in 25 the era of 1918. But first, let me just kind of start, you www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 38 This is when I was 1 know, holding up, you know, this book. 2 at the Smithsonian, We Return Fighting, an exhibition that 3 I had the opportunity to curate as well. 4 African-American experience during World War I. It's about the So, why is it so important today? 5 Number one, by 6 the time you get to World War I, African-Americans have 7 been serving this country in uniform since pre-American 8 Revolution. 9 wars. So, first of all, they have been in all those And so, when you get to World War I and you just 10 think about the 369th, which is one of eight regiments, 11 African-Americans and their white officers, especially for 12 the 369th had to fight for the right to fight. We hear that for World War II. 13 But they had to 14 fight for the right to fight because people still didn't 15 think that they were able to be good soldiers on the 16 battlefield. 17 after the war because we had Red Summer and we were still 18 in, you know, separate but equal and a racial environment. 19 We had the Read Summer. So, that brings you up to 1918. And then, Most African-Americans were really forced and 20 21 encouraged to take off their uniforms and not wear their 22 uniforms because some folks felt that going overseas and 23 the equal treatment that they had received, that they were 24 bringing back this attitude that now they were equal in 25 America. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 39 1 And so, I always tell folks that I believe World 2 War I generation, these men and women planted the seeds for 3 the World War II generation to execute the civil rights 4 movement, white and black. 5 World War II, you're still fighting to prove that you are a 6 soldier. 7 really celebrated. 8 9 Because still when you get to And so, African-American military history was not And this is to go real fast to the sweep, it was the movie Glory in '18 -- in 1998, '99, that really got 10 people interested, well, man, there were African-Americans 11 in the Civil War. 12 oversweep, until we get to the centennial. 13 point, why is it so important now? 14 And then, I can give you a historical But to your It was the centennial that made most of America 15 and most of the world really aware of the significant 16 contribution of the American experience and also that there 17 was an African-American experience. 18 curator at the Smithsonian, which is right across from the 19 Met, we were still finding that there are African-Americans 20 who are living today who are just now finding out that they 21 had a grand uncle, or a grand cousin, grandfather who 22 served in World War I because all of that stuff was either 23 destroyed or put in a box because they were forced to 24 suppress it. 25 And while I was a So, now with this medal band out there, it's no www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 40 People will begin to start researching 1 longer suppressed. 2 their history, people with African-American descent. 3 to Richard's point, when they had the exhibition up in his 4 region, you know, once people find out that African- 5 Americans were there, they come out and their pride in 6 being an American begins to flow out even more because now 7 they know that, hey, I had a relative who was instrumental 8 in World War I. And And I just like to close because as a historian, 9 10 you give us the mic and we might talk too long. I would 11 like to close by saying, you know, the 369th was one of 12 eight regiments. 13 19 percent of all of African-Americans who served during 14 World War I. 15 million served overseas. And those eight regiments were less than Four million African-Americans served, 2 And that was approximately 10 percent of the 16 17 American unit -- units that served -- 400,000 I mean 18 because there were 4 million Americans, approximately 10 19 percent. 20 important today because now it illuminates not only them, 21 but the other experiences of African-Americans during World 22 War I. 23 So, that's my historical overview why this is so THE CHAIR: So, I want to thank both of you 24 because as I mentioned that one of the benefits of being on 25 the CCAC is to hear the context of the design portfolios www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 41 And while I do understand and 1 that we are reviewing. 2 praise my colleagues on the CCAC, please forgive me, I know 3 that our normal rhythm is that we don't typically take this 4 amount of time. But I felt that this was so critical since we 5 6 were considering in this program and at this time that when 7 there's going to be future versus we're going to look at 8 the history of this that the record will be able to assist 9 them to further explore this in a way that helps to reveal 10 even more information. Turning to the design, I'm sort of curious 11 12 between your -- two of you. They lay -- the designs that 13 have, in fact, our obverse 10, 11 and 12 have designs that 14 have soldiers in action. 15 thinking about not embracing those above the one that you 16 favored, particularly given the fact that you mentioned 17 that the rifle was more important than the saxophone. 18 There you've gotten three designs where soldiers are in 19 action. 20 your favor compared to the ones that you selected. I'm sort of curious as to your I'm sort of curious why those did not in fact meet MR. SALTER: 21 I think for myself, and I'll just go 22 first, and you kind of hit on it, you know, when you say 23 the rifle is more important than the saxophone. 24 if I said that, I'm not sure. I mean, they're both very 25 important. I'm not -- But I wanted to make sure that for the American www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 42 1 public, and it really is true as a historian, I heard it 2 more times than I would like to have heard that everyone 3 knew about James Reese Europe and the band. 4 knew what the soldiers did in the battlefield. They rarely And so, when you look at these three designs, 5 6 there is nothing that talks about the band. There is no 7 instrument there. 8 Richard and I talked about. 9 make sure that both of those aspects came out. So, that was one of the things that You know, we really wanted to You're 10 showing the three, you know, you see them in the trenches, 11 but you don't see the other aspects. 12 any medal on them, there's nothing about their insignia, 13 the Rattler. 14 when you look at a soldier, sailor, airmen or marine's eyes 15 and you can kind of see the determination. 16 I shied away from these three personally. And I just kind of like, personally, the fact THE CHAIR: 17 I don't think there's So, that's why Regarding obverse 11, I have sort of 18 curiosity. 19 curious to ask you whether or not, I'm sorry. 20 that one. 21 in fact, two of them have the same type of weapon that's 22 different from the third. 23 with soldiers of the same rank? 24 MR. SALTER: 25 I can demonstrate obverse 11. And I'm sort of Yes. Yes, So, with this, it seems that the soldiers have, Would that have been the case And so, you know, that's one of the things as a technician, you know, I'm a military historian, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 43 1 kind of the history, the cultural aspect, and when you 2 start talking about weapons. 3 and it's a show rifle. 4 actual scene? 5 about, you know, having two rifles and a soldier charging 6 in the center because World War I was a trench warfare 7 battle. 8 Vietnam War, where you would see a scene like this. 9 soldiers were like this and they were going across the So, yes, they used a Lebel So, but would this have been an I just, you know, I was just concerned also It wasn't like World War II, the Korean War or the If 10 battlefield, number one, you would see the no man's land 11 and all of the dents and the terrain barbed wire, which you 12 do see in others. 13 of more of an artistic, heroic charge, which I'm not sure 14 would have been accurate for 1918. 15 16 17 This one just kind of gave me the feel THE CHAIR: Thank you. Peter, actually, you have a comment or question? MR. VAN ALFEN: Yeah. In fact, this just touches 18 on the depiction of the weapons. 19 there seem to be a number of inaccuracies and possible 20 problems with the depictions. 21 not sure, I wasn't able to find out for myself and I 22 couldn't find any depictions that were clear enough. 23 were issued Lebel or Berthier rifle, do you know, or both? 24 25 MR. SALTER: No. Because I did notice that One question that I had, I'm They I think they were issued both. And that's one of the things, like I said, I'm not really www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 44 1 clear on when they transitioned and got some of the French 2 weapons. 3 from. 4 know, called two of my best friend scholars, and they say, 5 yes, you know, both weapons were used, but all historians, 6 they didn't really go into detail about when and where and 7 when they would have used each particular weapon. 8 9 So, that's one of the other reasons I shied away And I looked at a lot of readings. MR. VAN ALFEN: I even, you I don't want to delay this too long, but if we do go ahead with reverse, I believe it's 3 10 with the depiction. Yeah, reverse 3 with the depiction of 11 the Berthier rifle. That seems to me to be the three 12 rounds version and not the five-round version, which would 13 have a protruding magazine below the stock. 14 1918 or 1917, April 1917, the French were using the five 15 round version almost exclusively. 16 being issued to the Hellfighters, I'm sure would've been 17 the five-round magazine. 18 be modified with a protruding magazine for more accuracy. 19 So, I'll leave it at that. 20 we can make an amendment to make that modification. 21 And I think by And so, if this was So, this would, I think, need to MR. SALTER: Right. If we go ahead with reverse 3, And I think we answered the 22 question about the weapons and said that we weren't quite 23 sure exactly which one would be the best one to depict. 24 But I do agree that further research should be done to make 25 sure the right weapon for 1918 is in this image. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 45 1 Thank you so much. THE CHAIR: And unless 2 there's any other questions from other members of the 3 committee, technical or legal, then I suggest that we begin 4 our consideration. 5 please try to keep their comments to 5 or minutes or less, 6 except for those, in fact, we feel that they have something 7 that might be especially beneficial for the consideration. 8 Additionally, if any members have questions or comments 9 about the program other than those that we've spoken about I would like to remind members to 10 already, let's hold these until you are recognized and or 11 wait until the end of the discussion of the program when we 12 will have the opportunity to ask those questions. 13 benefit of the court reporter, again, for those calling in, 14 I ask that you state your name when you begin speaking. 15 So, let us begin our deliberations with Dr. Dean Kotlowski. MR. KOTLOWSKI: 16 For the Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 17 Just to say congratulations to Mr. Saunders on joining us 18 with his appointment. 19 on your reappointment as chair for another year. 20 before, it's not only an honor, it's a pleasure to work 21 with you. 22 and Salter. 23 century. 24 this depth with the Harlem Hellfighters, but I do mention 25 them, and I do think it's very important. And congratulations, Mr. Chairman, As I said And the heartiest of welcomes to Doctors Harris I am a U.S. political historian of the 20th So, I teach World War I, I don't go into quite www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 You have Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 46 1 persuaded me about something, now I'm going to try to 2 persuade you on something. 3 do an exchange here. 4 that way. 5 important. 6 War era, some of these jazz musicians engaged in cultural 7 diplomacy through the U.S. Government. 8 articles written about this, and I think it's kind of 9 important. 10 11 So, let's see if we can maybe We don't, it doesn't have to be quite But, you know, the jazz music was very And, you know, if you fast forward, in the Cold There's been So, you know, where I'm going to start is, is with the reverse and take a look at what was there. You know, the obverse and the reverse that the 12 liaisons pick, I usually am very deferential to what the 13 liaisons want here, and they make good recommendations. 14 And if you match them up, your original preferences, 15 obverse and reverse, they make a nice solid, you know, 16 congressional gold medal, looks a lot like the gold medals 17 that we issue. 18 It's good to go back and forth here. 19 obverse, you do have three and you have them more or less 20 in profile. It was a very classic design, you know. I mean, with the And I'm talking about, you know, if you look at 21 22 obverse 4. And then if you go to the original reverse, 23 which I think is reverse 2, this is the original 24 preference. 25 And I like how the medal hangs there. Yeah, that's a good solid, you know, design. I have to say, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 47 1 Chairman Brown mentioned Mary Lannin, Mary, I have to give 2 her the credit here. 3 coined, no pun intended, the phrase, the tabletop test. 4 You have some coins on the table and what really catches 5 your eye? And what caught my eye is, again, looking at the 6 reverses. I don't think I'm going to get very far with 7 this, so this is not the persuasive part, Dr. Salter and 8 Harris, but the one that caught my eye was number 4, 9 because I thought number 4 had great artistry and 4 and 4A She developed this concept. She 10 both really zero in on the Croix de Guerre and on the 11 soldier's uniform. And, you know, we see a lot of military designs, 12 13 you know, things for military-themed coins and medals. 14 this has got a level of detail, a close-up, a perspective 15 that we really don't see. 16 this. 17 even liked 4A where Rattlers was missing, and it was a 18 little bit more of a cleaner design. 19 colleagues are going to feel about that. 20 And I don't remember anything like I really like the, this design. I like 4, and I Not sure, how my But if we go back to what I'm hearing, which is 21 an openness, quite a bit of openness to design three. This 22 is Obverse -- excuse me, Reverse 3. 23 look at reverse 3. 24 we're doing a lot of -- well, we're talking about a lot of 25 changes, and I'm getting a little trouble trying to We can just take a I guess maybe one of my concerns is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 48 1 visualize the changes. 2 I have to say, Dr. Salter and Harris, you did 3 persuade me, you got me to drop my reservation about the 4 saxophone, this was my reservation. 5 almost all of the members of the 369th carried a gun, a 6 rifle, used it, but not all of them obviously played jazz 7 music. 8 the rifle over the saxophone. 9 very creative design that at least gets people thinking We could assume that So, where you all helped me was the idea of putting And I do think this is a 10 about the contributions of the interactions of peoples from 11 two different countries. 12 different races, and what that meant. 13 that's very important. And you could even say two And I think that Now, as we go back to the obverse. 14 I do think it 15 is important, even when we talk to the liaisons and when 16 we're deferential to what they want to just give some shout 17 outs to the designs of the artists. 18 some terrific designs here, and you know, just a really 19 brief shout out to obverses 2 and 3. 20 soldier depicted here is very nice-looking, he is very 21 determined. 22 number 9. 23 combat type situation, as you might expect, what I'm 24 leading up to here is the, using the tabletop test, what 25 caught my eye was obverse 1, it really strongly caught my So, because there are I think that the And also, just a little bit of a shout out to You see a couple of soldiers in combat, in a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 49 I normally do not like depictions of people, 1 eye. 2 individuals where, you know, it's a frontal view and not a 3 profile or a side view. 4 was a little concerned as I was looking at this, about the 5 fire in the background, if people, if that would be clear, 6 I'm dropping that concern. 7 what you have here, and I wonder if there's any 8 appreciation of this by the liaisons or my member -- my 9 colleagues on the committee. But I thought this one worked. I think it is clear. I I think You have the individual 10 soldier, and you have the unit, and you have action, and 11 you have activity. 12 the Appalachian Harlem Hellfighters, you get the sense that 13 these guys really were going through hell, if you don't 14 mind me putting it that way. And with the inclusion of the fire and So, I felt that this was a very, very strong 15 16 design. 17 be is -- we could call it an emerging alternative design to 18 the original preference. 19 one with the saxophone and the rifle. 20 And, I think it would pair well with what seems to That's a mouthful, which is the So, that was a lot to say, and there's a lot 21 there for consideration. But this is a rich portfolio, a 22 lot of interesting designs. 23 other members of the committee ask you some excellent 24 questions, and we're very, very grateful for your 25 participation in the way in which you have illuminated And we have our chair and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 50 And I'm going to say one more thing. I loved Dr. 1 this. 2 Salter, how you mentioned the film Glory. 3 who knows anything about the film will say, "What, that was 4 about the Civil War." 5 start in a mass way of creating knowledge about African- 6 American military contributions, you know, beginning with - 7 - you think it could go earlier, but let's just say from 8 the Civil War onward, extremely important. 9 much, Mr. Chairman. 10 11 12 THE CHAIR: Because anybody But no, this is where you really Thank you very Thank you so much, Dean. Well, let's turn now to Robin. MS. SALMON: This is Robin Salmon. Thank you, 13 Dr. Brown, and thank you so much, everyone, for this most 14 interesting history lesson. 15 Carolina, so the Battle of Secessionville is something that 16 I know a lot about. 17 lot of Western ancestors. 18 African American in the West, the Buffalo soldiers, and 19 then really the first real cowboys were African American. 20 This is all something that is very much in my mind 21 representing art. I really want to go more with the, the 22 artistic designs. And of course, the one that passed 23 Mary's tabletop test for me was Obverse 1. 24 single soldier representing so many, I think is powerful. 25 Not only does it symbolize the importance of the African- I'm a native of South And on my father's side, there are a And so, the significance of the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 The idea of the Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 51 1 American in World War I, but farther back in our country's 2 history, the soldiers running in the background that -- in 3 incused design is, I think adds to the beauty of this 4 particular design of the medal. 5 And I'm happy to have confirmed that that is fire I wasn't able to get the descriptions 6 in the background. 7 of the design. 8 thinking maybe that was the coast of France, but fire makes 9 a lot more sense. So, I was a little bit at a loss, and I was The other single designs that I 10 especially liked were number five, showing the single 11 soldier in the trench, very much what those soldiers were 12 doing during World War I, and underscoring the significance 13 of that. Also, number six, same soldier, but with the 14 15 flags in the background. It just takes it a little bit to 16 a different thought process of -- he's finished his work 17 now and he's being honored. 18 reverse? Are we going on to the 19 THE CHAIR: Yes, please. 20 MS. SALMON: 21 also immediately caught my eye. 22 symbolism, the significance of the Croix de Guerre being 23 given, I think can't be underestimated or overestimated. 24 And this just appeals to me on so many different levels. 25 And I think, it represents, again, that important symbol of Yes. Okay. The reverse, number 4, Again, the very heavy www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 52 1 2 Let's see. the history. Having said all of that, I would not go against 3 any of the designs that you have preferred and will lend my 4 support where it may be best utilized. 5 shout out some of these really beautiful designs in my 6 estimation. 7 8 9 But I did want to Thank you. THE CHAIR: Thank you so much, Robin. Let's turn now to Art. MR. BERNSTEIN: This is Arthur Bernstein. With 10 regard to the obverses, I lean towards the preferred design 11 of the liaisons and the CFA. 12 appreciate the perspective of going down the line of the 13 free soldiers. 14 medal for a group, I prefer a design which incorporates 15 multiple individuals. 16 That would be Obverse 4. I And as has been mentioned because this is a That being said, Obverse 8 was attracted to me. 17 Again, that's a solo soldier. 18 very stiff. And to me, that added a life-like element to 19 the design. I could just see the soldier diligent in his 20 duties and standing at attention. 21 was exciting. 22 reverses, the preferred design of the liaisons, 02, would 23 also be my first choice. 24 25 I found the depiction to be And to me, the stiffness That's my comment on the obverses. On the I appreciate the balance, that it incorporates all the details, the medal, the flags, the emblem, the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 53 But I also want to support something said by 1 campaigns. 2 two of the previous speakers, the 4 and 4A designs I found 3 to be attractive. 4 that small portion of the uniform. 5 texture that Peter mentioned in his technical question, the 6 texture of the uniform, which presumably is, is that heavy 7 wool that those soldiers had to wear. I really appreciate the And I think showing that pocket flap on the 8 9 They're non-traditional, incorporating reverse ties in nicely with what might be the obverse, 10 where you see the whole uniform also featuring those 11 pockets on the three soldiers going across. 12 Chairman. 13 14 15 THE CHAIR: Thank you so much. Thank you, Mr. Let's turn now to Mike Moran. MR. MORAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. Let me take a 16 personal observation first. I can remember growing up, and 17 I was always a student of war, being just -- it was just 18 part of me. 19 And one of the pieces there was on the Lost Battalion, 20 World War I, and the bravery those men showed. 21 they had no choice, their backs were against the wall. 22 two weeks ago, I was out in Nashville on a Saturday morning 23 and going for a walk. 24 did, there was Sergeant York in heroic size, prominently 25 displayed on the hill there with the Capitol. And watching Walter Cronkite you are there. Problem was I did the Capitol Grounds. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And As I He's a folk Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 54 1 hero. 2 And I just opened the portfolio on the 369. And 3 when I did, I went, oh, my God, none of these people held a 4 candle to what this unit did. 5 question, Lawrence, was somebody took an eraser to their 6 history. 7 disgusting. 8 this and saw that, oh, wow, these people really, really 9 were good. And the answer to your We all know who did it. We did. And it's I really felt like screaming as I got into But look at the way they were treated. They 10 didn't get to finish their advanced infantry training 11 because the supplies were building up at the ports in 12 France, and they needed some truck drivers, so they just 13 shipped them over. 14 And then when Pershing gets all his troops there 15 or some of them there, and the French and the English want 16 to piecemeal out into the slaughterer houses of their own 17 trenches, Pershing wouldn't let them do that. 18 fight an individual area with Americans under his 19 generalship. 20 again, the 369th was part of that solution. 21 disgusting. 22 No, he did have a solution. He wanted to And there we go It's And being a Saint-Gaudens person, I know the 23 movie Glory and what that showed, as well as the Memorial 24 in Boston Common is that these people were human and they 25 died just like the rest of us, for a cause. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And one of the Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 55 1 facts that is not really well known is that a significant 2 number in the Union Army at the end of the Civil War were 3 African American, a significant number. 4 that. So, enough of Turn to these, yes, the tabletop test is number 5 6 one on the obverse. 7 Somebody give me paper, number 1, up there. 8 there, it's not art, but it is very, very effective. 9 art, yes, but it's not artsy. 10 So, let's look at it for a second. What you have And it grabs you. It is And it represents the whole unit. You have the dividing line between the individual 11 12 separated by the bayonet and the unit in combat. And the 13 way the sculptor has depicted the unit in combat, basically 14 gives you the anonymous horror of war. 15 soldiers against flames. 16 of the Mint that is this strong, this emotional. 17 just spell by me, but it's not artsy. Silhouetted I've not seen anything come out It is And you want to have somebody take a look at 18 19 something and recognize the grit of these people, what they 20 went through. 21 number 4. This does it, and it does it better than 22 Number 4 is three soldiers in a line. And I'm 23 not sure that the detail and the emotion that come out in 24 this sketch will completely translate when you put it into 25 medal. But I also tell you that we've done this before. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 56 None of this committee was 1 We did it at Montford point. 2 there except for Donald when we did that one. 3 were three African American soldiers just like this. 4 has been done before, and it's okay, but after I looked at 5 what these people went through, I want the best for them 6 and the best. 7 the best I've seen come out of this Mint, period, for a 8 medallic design, and that's number 1. 9 it, and I'm not going to back off. But those This It's not just tabletop, it's not artsy, it's So, I'm strongly for Reverse, here we go, designed by committee. 10 11 Jesus Christ, we're going to do it. I can see us doing it. 12 It's going to be number 3, and we're going to have all 13 sorts of motions at the end of it. 14 idea what this thing is going to look like when you shrink 15 down that insignia and hang the ribbon from the Croix de 16 Guerre. 17 to point out that the best work is 4 and 4A, the only 18 reason I wouldn't be pushing 4 and 4A is it completely 19 ignores the physical aspect of this unit. 20 is just as, almost as important, not quite. 21 deserves to be recognized somewhere on this medal. 22 don't think you can work it in on the guy's lapel or his 23 pocket. 24 medals I would've ever seen would've been number 1 on the 25 obverse and number 4 on the reverse. And none of us have any But I'll be right there with you. So, I hate to pass that one up. But I do want And that, to me, And it And I One of the best But you can't do it. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 57 1 So, here we go. 2 done, Lawrence. THE CHAIR: 3 4 We're going to design by committee. appreciate it. 5 I'm Thank you so much, Mike, really Let's turn now to Sam Gill. MR. GILL: Thank you, Dr. Brown. Well, my 6 colleagues are eloquent as usual in bringing up all sorts 7 of things that make me think, which I appreciate very much. 8 The truth is, I could have accepted any single design on 9 the obverse or the reverse from this, this group. I think 10 they're all very well done. 11 appreciated each and every one of them. 12 anything that that really affected me negatively in any 13 way. 14 were well reasoned. 15 going to start with number 1 obverse. 16 and others that this is a real standout design. 17 certainly grabs you when you look at it, and I appreciate 18 it very, very much, the determination in this man and what 19 he's obviously going through. 20 4 is a, represents the entire regiment. 21 understand that, I appreciate that, and I'm going to 22 support that. 23 For the reverses, 4 and 4A were superb. 24 very much. 25 don't bring in the history of the regiment. The art is great. I I didn't see But having said that, I think the liaison's choices I'm going to go back to, but I am I do agree with Mike It But I also agree that number And I can I like them very, The only negative I have with them is they www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And I think Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 58 1 the history of the regiment is really, really important 2 here. 3 persuaded now that their contributions to music was 4 exceptional. 5 such a way with the parade, their band. 6 were stuck in the trenches with the other soldiers fighting 7 for everything, they still managed to do that too, which 8 was, gives them two contributions. 9 So, I would certainly be happy with number 2, but I think So, that would take us to two or three. I am And when they came back, they were honored in And whereas they And I appreciate that. 10 it would be generous and good to recognize their 11 contribution to the jazz and the music. But at the end of the day, whatever the choices 12 13 of those are all going to make a very fitting tribute to 14 these fine soldiers. 15 know more about them and to learn about this whole history 16 thing. 17 what a terrible, terrible fighting event it was. 18 I'm very, very thrilled that these soldiers can be honored. 19 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And it's just a real thrill for me to And anyone who has studied World War I realizes 20 THE CHAIR: Thank you. 21 MR. VAN ALFEN: And so, Let's turn now to Peter. Thank you, Dr. Brown. I have to 22 say that my colleagues -- well, in fact, before I turn to 23 the designs, I also would like to congratulate Mr. Saunders 24 for joining the CCAC, and Chairman Brown for the second 25 term as Chair. And I also would very much like to thank www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 59 1 our liaisons for their very informative and instructive 2 contribution earlier this afternoon. 3 And that said, I do have to join, I feel, with my 4 colleagues, Dean, Robin and Mike, who I think have all 5 expressed support for obverse 1 and reverse 4 much more 6 eloquently and probably forcefully than I could. 7 that these are two very, very strong designs. 8 this would make an exceptionally beautiful and attractive 9 and just stunningly appropriate medal for honoring the 10 I think And I think Hellfighters. I find reverse or Obverse 4, the preference to be 11 12 fine, to be adequate. And I certainly do understand the 13 notion of having the unit rather than the individual as 14 representing units of the importance. 15 Obverse 1 to be a much, much more powerful design. 16 terms of the reverses, I believe its 2 and 3, are adequate 17 and I think that they would do all right. 18 they're particularly striking. 19 Reverse 4, I do think is an outstanding design. But I do find And in I don't think But 4, I think is really -- And again, I think that that would be just a -- 20 21 make a wonderful medal. 22 of Reverses 2 and 3 or Obverse 4, but I do think you'd be 23 much better served with obverses or Obverse 1 and Reverse 24 4. 25 I certainly won't stand in the way So, thank you very much. THE CHAIR: Thank you. Turn now to Harcourt www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 60 1 Fuller. MR. FULLER: 2 3 Dr. Fuller? All right. I'm sorry. Thank you. I guess I was muted. Can you hear me now? 4 THE CHAIR: Yes, well. 5 THE CHAIR: All right. Thanks. Well, first of 6 all, again, I'd like to join my colleagues in welcoming Mr. 7 Saunders to our team, and also to congratulate Dr. Brown 8 for his second term. 9 to everyone on this call who has served their country, our I also want to express my gratitude 10 beloved country in the military. I'm very happy that we 11 are reviewing this portfolio on the cusp of Black History 12 Month. Mr. Chairman, I hope I can stay in within the 5 13 14 minutes. 15 said, as historians you sometimes have to cut us off, but 16 I'll try to keep it short. 17 participation of blacks, Africans, people of African 18 descent, African-American in military history. 19 certainly General Colin Powell's PBS special that he did, 20 where he narrated the participation of African-Americans in 21 the various theaters of American military history certainly 22 piqued my interest in that. 23 But as how my colleague, one of the liaisons I have a great interest in the And And also, I think what this program, the Harlem 24 Hellfighters, the reason why I really love this is because 25 it not only allows us to look at the participation of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 61 But for me, it 1 African-Americans in the First World War. 2 also helps us to think of it in a larger context of the 3 participation of people from the -- blacks from the 4 Caribbean, as well as Africans from the continent who also 5 served in the First and the Second World War, et cetera. 6 And there's a lot of research going on about that as well. 7 So, I think this will only highlight that, which is good 8 for everyone. 9 With that said, I would like to endorse Obverse 4 10 and Reverse 2, which are the choices of the liaisons. 11 if I may, I just wanted to give a shout out and make some 12 comments about some of the other ones, which my colleagues 13 have already opined on. 14 But So, if we can go to Obverse 1. I agree with everyone that this, to me, is 15 probably the most striking design. 16 person, I get emotional. 17 it makes you feel like you want to serve. 18 It just -- this person is a human being. 19 I look at this person, I feel like I'm looking at my uncle 20 or someone that I know, personally. 21 patriot, this person is a fighter. 22 just -- it grabs me. 23 marks to this even though as I said, I'll go along with the 24 recommendations of the liaisons. 25 When I look at this I feel like -- I mean, sincerely, This person, when This person is a And it just makes, it And so, I will be giving some high If we could go to Obverse 2 as well. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Again, I Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 62 1 also like 2 as well as 3, because I think they do, they 2 allow you to get into sort of the fact that we're talking 3 about human beings. 4 They're not just drawings, right, they represent actual 5 people. You almost feel like these are real. If we could go to 5, please. 6 I really, really 7 like this one because we are talking about the First World 8 War. 9 feel that brings you into the trenches. And I think this is one of the few of them that I I know that there 10 are other designs that show the trenches but they don't 11 give you that close up of the soldier's face and his 12 determination. 13 would give high marks to that. 14 And just to wrap up, if we could go to the reverses, 15 reverse -- let's go to 1, please. 16 also gave marks to 5 and six. 17 8. 18 So, I really like this one again, and I I like 1 as well. I But I will end with Reverse Yes, I particularly like this one. I think 19 again, it shows, both flags. I really like the artistry on 20 the rifle overlapping with the trumpet. 21 homage to the fact that they were soldiers, as well as 22 musicians. 23 these deliberations. 24 those who have served this great country. 25 forward to these medals coming out, whichever ones we Again, paying So, once again, I'm honored to be a part of Again, thanks for your service for www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And I look Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 63 1 decide on. THE CHAIR: 2 3 Thank you. Thank you so much. Let's turn to Dennis Tucker. MR. TUCKER: 4 Thank you. And Dr. Brown, I want to 5 applaud you and thank you for facilitating this excellent 6 conversation. 7 question, why did it take so long for this medal to be 8 authorized. 9 Congressional Gold Medals is representation. And in particular, I appreciate your One of the important functions of And now, 10 finally, thanks to Congress, thanks to Dr. Harris, Dr. 11 Salter, the Harlem Hellfighters will take their rightful 12 place in the pantheon of officially recognized American war 13 heroes. 14 see you, we recognize you, and we honor you. 15 very important messages. It's been a long time coming. This medal says we Those are all Mike, thank you for your analysis of Obverse 1. 16 17 I agree that this satisfies what Joe Menna has called the 18 arm's length test, what Mary calls the tabletop test. 19 going to give some merit points for Obverse 1. 20 cinematic in style. 21 often see in Congressional Gold Medal design, it looks like 22 a movie poster. 23 contrary, it's part of its appeal. 24 design. 25 I'm It's And that's something that we don't And that's not a criticism. On the I think it's a great On the reverse, I, like Dean, I initially www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 64 1 preferred Reverse 2 to Reverse 3, the one that does not 2 show the saxophone. 3 frivolous compared to the weight of the combat service of 4 the Harlem Hellfighters. 5 discussion, I, like Dean, I've changed my mind on that. 6 And I do like Dr. Salter's idea of imposing the rifle over 7 the saxophone. 8 their combat service. 9 The saxophone, to me, almost felt But thanks to our liaisons' I think that would give more weight to All of this said, I think the liaisons' design 10 preferences, I think the Obverse 4 will make a dignified 11 and handsome medal. 12 Congressional Gold Medal design. 13 It's a good traditional, solid So, for that reason, I endorsed that choice. 14 endorse the choice of Reverse 3. 15 States Mint for its work, its excellent work. 16 Dr. Brown. 17 THE CHAIR: Thank you. 18 MR. SCARINCI: I And I thank the United Thank you, Let's turn to Donald. So, I really think -- I really 19 liked Mike's exposition of obverse 1, and that's clearly 20 the most artistic of the group, and the most the most 21 stunning, really, of the group and an obverse that would 22 definitely stand out. 23 sorry, Obverse 4, which is what the liaison wants, I 24 understand why they like it. 25 other congressional medals, gold medals of the military The Obverse 3, which is -- I'm It's kind of very similar to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 65 That doesn't really 1 nature that we've issued in the past. 2 stand out to me in any way. 3 But the constituents have, seem to have thought this 4 through. 5 Medals, I don't really like to substitute our judgment for 6 theirs, unless they seem a little less engaged or if they 7 disagree. 8 committed to Obverse 4. 9 in the way of that, even though it's not the best choice 10 here. And you know how I feel about Congressional Gold In this case, the constituent group seems to be So, I'm not really going to stand I vote for that. You know, and the reverse that they want, we'll 11 12 have to do amendments after the vote, but, it's as good as 13 any. 14 the musical instruments above the gun because I think 15 there's a symbolism to that, putting the musical instrument 16 above the gun. 17 that it should be the other way around, I'll support that 18 amendment as well. 19 So, I'm being very agreeable to the constituent group and I 20 applaud the fact that you have clearly thought this 21 through. 22 can articulate your support for. 23 So, I could live with that. I would personally keep But if the constituent group feels strongly And you have clearly made a selection that you So, I'm just going to go along with it even 24 though I don't think it's -- I don't think the obverse is 25 the best but so be it. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 66 1 2 THE CHAIR: Turn now to Mr. John Saunders. MS. WARREN: 3 4 Thank you so much, Donald. Sir, your microphone is muted, Mr. Saunders. 5 MR. SAUNDERS: 6 THE CHAIR: 7 MR. SAUNDERS: How's it now? Good. Before I get into individual 8 designs, couple of overall comments. First is I would like 9 to agree with what Mike said, very eloquently, that World 10 War I was an awful thing for everybody in it. It decimated 11 a generation. 12 outstanding bravery and were among the best of the best, 13 and they got pooped upon and not -- didn't receive credit 14 and it's time to do something about it. 15 really agree with the idea of the medal. And this particular group clearly showed So, I think -- I The second thing is, this is my first meeting, I 16 17 was very impressed with the work that the consultants, the 18 experts, the Mint, everybody has done in bringing a group 19 of designs. 20 When you have the little checkmark for artistic merit, I 21 had to get every one of them a checkmark. 22 that the consideration that's gone into this is very, very 23 good. 24 25 I couldn't say that I hate any one of them. I just think And I'm quite frankly impressed. I'm going make some comments for a couple of designs, and I want to make a comment in general first. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 We Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 67 1 all are numismatists, interested in coins, interested in 2 our job here. 3 rifle should have three bullets or six bullets, I mean 4 that's detail we get into, which is good. 5 a lot of people who look at things, the first impression is 6 what is good. 7 impression basis but I didn't like some of the things in 8 the first impression basis. 9 that as well as details. 10 11 We study these designs, we -- whether the But I also think And I like some of the things on a first So, I'm going to talk about I'm not going to go into a whole lot with this. In terms of Obverse designs, initially, I gave 3 12 and 4, 3 points, and 2, almost 3 points. But looking at 13 design 1, I didn't like it, and again, this is my first 14 impression thing. 15 guy was holding an umbrella. 16 looked closer, figured out. 17 favor of Obverse 1 strongly if we can show the point of the 18 bayonet, so it's real clear that's a bayonet on a first- 19 impression basis. When I first looked at it, I thought the You know, I looked at it, So, I think I would be in 20 The other comment I have on it is, to echo 21 something Robin said, I didn't get that it was a flames at 22 first, I thought it might be a map too. 23 looked at it and said that doesn't look like any coast of, 24 any part of Europe because I particularly know of, unless 25 there was some particular battle there. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And I kind of Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 68 One, you show the point of 1 So, I would suggest two things. 2 the bayonet and making clear that it's a bayonet. 3 if there's anything to make it more clear that the flames 4 are flames, maybe some textures in the flames would do it. 5 But if we can fix that, I would strongly favor Obverse 1. And two, That said, I like the -- I like 4 just fine as 6 7 well. I appreciate the comment on 5, that it shows the 8 trench warfare, I like the design of it better. 9 like 7, because when I first looked at it, maybe this I didn't 10 reminds me of a picture of the New York firefighter. 11 don't know what firefighter refer with that. But I I didn't like 10 because until you see the guy in 12 13 the trench, it looked like people were stepping off a stage 14 rather than coming out of the trench. 15 coming out of the trench, behind people are going forward. 16 On those bases, I didn't really like it. 17 struck me. When I first looked at it, looks like some 18 gangsters. I mean they're shooting machine guns. 19 like something out of Eliot Ness. 20 liked it better, but I hope you don't mind me giving a few 21 off-the-cuff first impressions. And why is some guy Eleven kind of It looks On consideration, I Going on to reverse, I think number 3 is the 22 23 best. I wasn't in love with 4 and 4A as much as some other 24 people. 25 coins, it kind of reminded me of a matte proof, i.e., I'm Maybe it's because I never did like matte proof www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 69 1 not sure how well it technically is going to come up. 2 I like 3, so, I'd like to go with 3. 3 strong comment about 3. 4 But I have one other I like the saxophone on top, as Don just said. 5 Not so much for the symbolic reason, is I like the detail 6 of the saxophone. 7 We don't need the detail of the rifles there. 8 the way that the saxophone, the detail of the buttons on 9 the thing. Everybody knows what a rifle looks like. And I think you'd lose something if we put the 10 saxophone underneath. 11 the saxophone on top. 12 But I like So, I would very much support having In terms of the medal, I don't see a need to 13 shrink it. 14 do it like number 2 by creating a gap in the legend, so you 15 could do it, I wouldn't -- I think it's fine as it is, I 16 wouldn't put it on top of the badge. 17 please keep the saxophone on top. 18 If you wanted to show the -- on a suspension, So, I like 3, just And let me see if there is anything else here. I 19 think that's about my comments. 20 dislike the ones where I said gave me a weird first 21 impression. 22 first impressions on things as well as our detailed study 23 of things. 24 25 And again, I didn't I just still think we should be aware of our Thank you. THE CHAIR: welcome aboard. Thank you so much, John. And again, My colleagues, I want to extend… www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 70 1 MR. SAUNDERS: Thank you. Thanks everybody for 2 the welcome to -- congratulations, Dr. Brown, for your re- 3 appointment as well. 4 forward to that dinner the next month, get to see -- get to 5 meet everybody in person. 6 THE CHAIR: So, I'm looking forward to -- looking We are looking forward to it as well. 7 Joe, if -- I saw your hand up, but if you would give me a 8 second and let me in fact first give my quick comments. 9 MR. MENNA: Oh, yes. I apologize. 10 THE CHAIR: Again, I want to thank all the 11 members of the CCAC for your contribution. 12 like many of you, I give deference to the stakeholders. 13 Although I think this is a wonderful opportunity to 14 actually ask the stakeholders if they might evolve in their 15 decisions based on the comments that they have heard. 16 I, like you, Before we do that though, very quickly for me, 17 with respect to the obverse. 18 Obverse 4, I sort of like obverses or -- or in fact design 19 elements that are action since this is military. 20 ones that have 10, 11 and 12, I was really persuaded by it 21 because of the fact that they had the action. 22 As much as I would support So, the With respect to the reverse, I particularly, I 23 see the value of the decision by the stakeholders, 24 particularly with Reverse 2 that has the campaigns, the 25 military campaigns by this distinguished unit. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 At the same Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 71 1 time, I agree that reverse 3 would probably be my favorite 2 in reverse. 3 see why my colleagues embrace those. 4 I'm not so sure that I would embrace them, needing to have 5 the ribbon above the medal to me is not as critical. 6 maybe the colonel can tell me because I remember wearing my 7 uniform and I wore it with the small ribbon that's to the 8 right of it, and didn't have the medal on it. 9 medal on a case by itself. 10 11 With respect to the reverses 4 and 4A, I can But I must say that And I'd have the But then on the other hand, I understand the significance. But I want to end up by saying that again, while 12 I agree with my colleagues that Obverse 1 is certainly more 13 striking but I also understand the reason why they embrace 14 the stakeholders' Obverse 4. 15 the inscriptions of the units on the obverse makes sense. 16 And with respect to, if I had to choose a reverse to go 17 with that obverse, I probably would have chosen a 18 modification of Reverse 2. 19 would be important. 20 At the same time, I probably would have wanted to have the 21 instruments and the rifle. 22 of looking at the medal to say what does this mean, that 23 would prompt me as a student to look it up more rather than 24 meet and say, well, I have to look up to see what military 25 campaigns they were engaged in. Being able to in fact have Having the military campaigns Because to me from a standpoint www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 72 1 So, those are my comments. And I'd like to now 2 then move on to the next item on this meeting. And again, 3 thanking my colleagues for your contribution to this 4 conversation because it was particularly rich for me. 5 I thank you for your indulgence. And So, next I'd like to ask, are there any 6 7 additional comments or motions from members of the 8 committee at this time based on what you have heard? 9 I see, in fact a -- from Dean, I see his hand up, and I see 10 Mike's. So, let's go in the order of Dean and then go to 11 Mike. 12 please forgive me, Joe, for not reflecting recognizing you 13 then. And then let me then go to Joe after that, because, So, Dean first. MR. KOTLOWSKI: 14 Sure. Thank you very much, Mr. 15 Chairman. 16 up with the liaisons, to see if their thoughts had evolved 17 in any way, based on the really lengthy discussion that we 18 gave. 19 liaisons. 20 the discussion that you heard? 21 Mr. Chairman, you mentioned earlier, following And I would just direct that question to the Has your thoughts in any way changed based on And I would say, maybe in particular, would you 22 find -- let's just focus on Obverse 1, would you find that 23 in any way acceptable? 24 original thinking, you wanted a perspective that included a 25 number of different soldiers, you had three of them in From what I remember of your www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 73 And here you got essentially more than three, 1 Obverse 4. 2 with a focus on one in particular. 3 curious, your thoughts on that? MR. HARRIS: 4 I'm just kind of So, Richard Harris. And I 5 think with the -- I think the image on 1 is certainly very 6 striking. 7 talking, for example, about the -- whether or not the rifle 8 had been presented in an accurate way. 9 fire, I think, obviously, symbolic of war. Two things that I thought about, we were When I saw the But by the time 10 the Harlem Hellfighters got to France, no man's land was 11 pretty much a lot of dirt and when it rained mud, and 12 certainly that's not to say there was -- there still more 13 fires. 14 the many photographs of no man's land show, at this point, 15 in 1918, as being essentially barren. 16 But -- especially in the destruction of towns. But The other thing that struck me is that on 01, we 17 have just one line, which is sort of two lines, with Harlem 18 Hellfighters. 19 that when we got to the back of it, there also was -- I'm 20 trying to look at my notes -- also, there was almost 21 nothing there in terms of lettering. 22 reason that Krewasky and I talked about, one reason we 23 thought it would be a good idea to include the 15th New 24 York National Guard is because many of the soldiers started 25 out in the National Guard. And I thought with one of the other designs, And, for example, one And then the 15th, New York www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 74 1 National Guard, when we entered the war, was re-designated 2 with 369th. 3 themselves, during and after the war, as members of the old 4 15th. Many of those soldiers still refer to So, that was very important to them. I think that if we were to take the design 01, we 5 6 would need to fill in some details maybe on the reverse, so 7 that we had the 15th New York National Guard, the 369th, 8 among other things. 9 to do with the -- if we can just look at number 4, excuse But the other point that struck me had 10 me, 04. Think that one. Here, there -- as I said on the 11 first, on the obverse, I think we should remove 369th 12 because it does appear on the back. 13 understand I think the figure, the face in -- on Obverse 1 14 is very striking and so forth. 15 particular depiction as the appropriate one. And again, I I mentioned why I like this I think that -- again, I would say the points are 16 17 well-taken. I was never sitting here saying no, no way or 18 whatever. 19 thought that R4, I think it was. I think there was excellent points made. To me, this was not particularly striking. 20 I I do 21 like the idea of showing the Croix de Guerre with the 22 ribbon. 23 think if we were to combine 01 with R4, that there's an 24 awful lot of basic information that wouldn't appear, the 25 New York 15th and the 369th and so forth that I will, which I think that was a very good suggestion. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 But I Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 75 And I think somebody raised an 1 I think might be puzzling. 2 excellent point about was this a medal that might cause 3 somebody to look at the front and the back and say, let me 4 go to Google or whatever and find out more about this unit. 5 And I didn't think that 04 really, really would encourage 6 that. 7 indications of preferences and explanations for them. 8 at any rate, just a couple of comments, I'll keep it brief. THE CHAIR: 9 10 But at any rate, as I said, I think some excellent So, Dr. Salter, do you have additional comments? DR. SALTER: 11 I'm going to keep it -- yes. Yeah, 12 I'm just going to keep it to 2 minutes to just address a 13 technical piece to your question about R4 because I do take 14 everyone's comments and, you know, I'm just happy that a 15 Congressional Gold Medal will be presented, you know, so 16 anyone could go forward, but I have not been swayed from 04 17 and 03. 18 technical question if you want to use that. 19 military folks on here will probably know this. 20 actually have is you actually have a medal and a ribbon. 21 And at no time, would you wear the same medal and the same 22 ribbon at the same time. 23 So, I want to go to R3 and just answer your Now, if -- let's go to R4. And some other What you So, if you're looking 24 at R4, that's the -- your medal hanging from the ribbon, 25 that's fine. But you would not have your ribbon but you www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 76 1 could have another ribbon next to the medal, which is 2 actually what you have here. 3 same medal in the ribbon because the medals in the ribbon 4 look the same. 5 ribbon under Croix de Guerre, you're going to see that the 6 stripes and the lines are the same. 7 technical thing I would add. 8 But I stand by my two choices. 9 going to issue a Congressional Gold Medal for the 369th. So, if you were to Google the medal and the 10 THE CHAIR: 11 Dean, back to you. 12 MR. KOTLOWSKI: 13 Chairman. Both of these are not the So, that's the only But I could go with anyone. I'm just pleased that we're Thank you, both. Thank you very much, Mr. I don't have anything to add at this point. 14 THE CHAIR: Thank you, sir. 15 John, if you can hold for a second, let me get 16 back to in fact, Joe, as I didn't recognize him earlier. 17 Maybe Joe has something that he'd like us to consider. MR. MENNA: 18 Thank you, Dr. Brown. My name is Joe 19 Menna. I don't mean to interrupt your discussion. And I 20 beg your indulgence just for a second. 21 to editorialize on any committee members' choices, but 22 there's certain issues, sculptural issues in the various 23 ones that have been highlighted so far that I think are 24 worthy of attention. 25 number one in particular, Dennis hit it right on the nail - I would never bench If you wanted to look at obverse www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 77 1 - the nail on the head when he described it as like a movie 2 poster because I think that's what most folks are drawn to. 3 When you look at this, it's a graphic image. 4 of sculpture realization, I typically recommend that the 5 artists do not make full frontal portraits at any scale. 6 There's something that I missed, if you look off But in terms 7 the left to the side, this silhouettes, the figures are not 8 intersecting the border, and that would be my fault 9 exclusively, no one else's, for not catching that. But in 10 general, if you look at the layers of relief, if you look 11 at Harlem Hellfighters, this is the first layer of relief. 12 And then the hand strangely holding the bleed of the 13 bayonet as the second layer of relief, and then the hand 14 behind that is the third layer of relief. 15 body and figure as the fourth layer back is space relief, 16 and then the silhouetted figures, and then the ground, and 17 then ultimately the flames. And then the That face is -- the soldier's face will have to 18 19 be -- the soldier's helmet and face are going to look flat, 20 frankly. 21 is conceived graphically, but not three dimensionally. 22 this happens because when artists choose devices, it's not 23 my place to intercede -- interrupt their voices, their own 24 artistic choices. But I do offer comments on anatomy and 25 things like that. This artist anatomy is very fluid and I Because in order to accommodate all of that, was www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 78 1 would say expressionistic, it's not very realistic. 2 could work with that. 3 We But this fleet -- this face will be pancake flat, 4 as opposed to Obverse 4 where the figures are very 5 monumental, where the text is at the bottom of the coin, 6 medal rather. 7 towards the edge of the coin, so that text will not 8 compromise the quality of relief. 9 presented in a very robust, sculptural manner that would -- So, when -- the relief is necessary lower These figures would be 10 that will be a true memorial to these veterans, these 11 deceased veterans. 12 sculpturally flaccid, and I don't think we've honored -- 13 that's editorializing, I don't think would present -- would 14 be as powerful, sculpturally, when you, yes, the test of 15 seeing it at arm's length. 16 holding your hand as a sculpture. 17 sculpturally active design. 18 necessarily much more flat. 19 Whereas, the other one is going to be But there's also just a test of This is a much more The other design would be The thing in highest relief would be the text. 20 And I don't know -- I'm just offering that. 21 Thank you. 22 THE CHAIR: 23 John, I see you have the hand up. 24 MR. SAUNDERS: 25 Two things. I'll stop. Thank you so much, Joe. Okay, I'm unmuted now. When Joe was talking, I couldn't www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 79 1 help but think that he's not liking facing portraits. 2 he's facing the same thing the ancient Greeks did. 3 Greeks tried that it was a long time before they could come 4 up with a really attractive facing-forward coin. 5 it with the Larissa pieces, (inaudible) Rhodian drachms and 6 tetradrachms, but, you know, it's a problem that's been 7 around for 2500 years, Joe, so I just -- I couldn't help 8 but make that comment. 9 MR. MENNA: No, and I agree. I agree. That The They did I agree. 10 I think they solved it much more successfully with those 11 handwrought dies. 12 MR. SAUNDERS: Yeah, a lot of difference from 13 what you could do today. 14 with Obverse 1, I wanted to agree very much with what 15 Richard said is, maybe we take some of the things like New 16 York -- 15th New York, and put it on reverse. 17 reverse, we all seem to be favoring three, the fact that 18 this is act of Congress -- by the fact that this 19 congressional medal, it's done by an act of Congress. 20 thought that was kind of irrelevant. 21 know, 15th New York there, if we did go with Obverse 1. 22 But I think Joe's point about the -- how it would turn out. 23 THE CHAIR: The other thing is, if we did go On the I And we could put, you Thank you so much, John. Appreciate 24 your comments. And I ask, are there any other? 25 you or Mike have any other comments that you'd like to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Joe, do Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 80 1 offer or share with the committee on the design? 2 MR. MENNA: I happen to jump into my boss' office 3 because we're right next to each other. But I did want to 4 also comment on Reverse 4. 5 successfully but that is also very graphically conceived 6 instead of classically conceived. 7 stakeholder. 8 except on American quarters and stuff, the obverse is the 9 main character and the reverse is supporting cast. As I say, we could make it But the reverses are the No, reverses are often supporting, usually, I think 10 the elegant graphic structure of the stakeholders' reverse 11 choices are -- will look -- will work better sculpturally. 12 This is just going to be flat too, I hate to say, sorry. 13 14 THE CHAIR: Understood. Mike, so you have your MR. MORAN: I have a question for Joe. hand up? 15 Joe, if 16 you incuse Harlem Hellfighters on Obverse 1 and eliminate 17 one layer of relief, does that allow you to give more 18 relief to the face? MR. MENNA: 19 And your mic -- most sorry, Mr. 20 Moran. 21 running back to my office. 22 MR. MORAN: 23 This is Joe Menna. Okay. Could you repeat that? I was If you incuse Harlem Hellfighters, the phrase Harlem Hellfighters on Obverse 1… 24 MR. MENNA: You can… 25 MR. MORAN: -- does that help? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 81 1 MR. MENNA: If you look at the -- if you think 2 about the cross-section, right? 3 of stuff in here. If you think -- got a lot Imagine the cross-section, this is greater 4 5 relief. And this is -- imagine the cross-section of the 6 body incusing text along the topology like that. 7 all the draft detail that goes inside, it doesn't work. 8 don't -- we -- no, sir, it doesn't work well. 9 MR. MORAN: Okay. 10 MR. MENNA: I get what you're saying. And then But we try 11 to incuse on the -- incusing texts works on the most 12 nominal topology in terms of its depth. 13 Really active topology is like the enemy of incusing. 14 THE CHAIR: 15 MR. TUCKER: Thank you. We It just works. Let's turn to Dennis. Thank you, Dr. Brown. This is 16 Dennis Tucker. I would like to make a motion. 17 this will capture everything that our liaisons have guided 18 us on if you feel the time is right to do that. THE CHAIR: 19 Okay. And I think So, if you can hold for one 20 second, let me make sure that I get all the questions from 21 anyone that's still remaining. 22 up. 23 John. 24 25 I see John, your hand is Do you have additional comments? Okay. You're on mute, Thank you. And Mike, your hand is still up. you have an additional comment? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Go ahead. Did Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 82 No. 1 MIKE: 2 THE CHAIR: 3 Right. One of the joys of having virtual meetings. Dennis, I think at this point, let me make sure, 4 5 before you offer your motion, let's see, April, you or your 6 team have any additional comments, or the liaisons? MS. STAFFORD: 7 8 9 10 11 team. None from our design management Thank you. THE CHAIR: Okay. And on that basis, Dennis, let's proceed with your motion. MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Dr. Brown. This is Mr. 12 Dennis Tucker again. I would just preface this by saying 13 Obverse 4, or by noting that Obverse 4 has both the 14 National Guard and the U.S. Army numbers of the Harlem 15 Hellfighters as Dr. Harris pointed out. 16 would be this, that the committee recommends Obverse 4 as 17 it stands now, and Reverse 3 with the following changes. 18 The name of the 369th infantry removed because it would be 19 repetitive. 20 of the Croix de Guerre added at the top of the design. So, my motion "LET'S GO," "RATTLERS" removed and the ribbon 21 MR. TUCKER: I think that satisfies all of the… 22 MR. SALTER: I have a pointed question. 23 I have a pointed question on the… 24 THE CHAIR: 25 MR. SALTER: The question is coming from whom? Dr. Salter. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 83 1 THE CHAIR: 2 MR. SALTER: Okay. Okay. So, the one I'm looking at, 3 the obverse, has the 15th New York and a 369th on the 4 front. 5 would take the 369th off the front. 6 in the motion and just have the 15th? MR. TUCKER: 7 8 MR. SALTER: MR. TUCKER: 12 THE CHAIR: 14 This is Dennis Tucker again. My Oh, and leave the obverse with both on the front? 11 13 Is that what I heard recommendation was to remove it from the reverse. 9 10 I want to make sure I understood that he said we motion. Yes, sir. Okay. I got it. Dennis has made a Is there a second to Dennis's motion? MR. VAN ALFEN: I'd say, Dr. Brown, before we 15 proceed with that, I would add to Dennis' motion that the 16 rifle -- that we just make sure that the rifle is 17 historically accurate for that period. 18 slight change, if it's not the rifle, if it's historically 19 accurate. 20 THE CHAIR: 21 MR. TUCKER: 22 23 24 25 There might be a -- do you accept that change? -- I would accept that -- yes, I accept that. THE CHAIR: So, we have a motion from Dennis. we have a second? MR. VAN ALFEN: This is Peter, I second that. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Do Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 84 1 Dr. Brown, this is Dean MR. KOTLOWSKI: 2 Kotlowski. I got my hand up. 3 jump in like this. 4 recommend these two designs with changes? 5 just point out that there's -- we haven't scored anything 6 yet. But are these motions to actually 7 THE CHAIR: 8 MR. KOTLOWSKI: 9 Are these -- I'm sorry to Because I would Yes. And I would feel more comfortable if we scored first and see where we're at and then we 10 entertain motions. 11 THE CHAIR: Dean, I appreciate your point of 12 view, and it has some merit. 13 passes, then we still would score. 14 scoresheets. 15 is my understanding, and counsel who's assisting us here 16 can advise on this, but I understand if the motion passed, 17 then that in fact has preference even though we would still 18 be asked to score our votes. But the motion would then be, the thing that my interpretation… MR. SCHORN: 21 22 We'd still hand in our Hearing no objection from counsel, I'm assuming 19 20 Let's see if the motion Yes -- yes, Dr. Brown, I agree with your interpretations. It's John Schorn speaking. 23 THE CHAIR: Okay. 24 Dennis, a second by Peter. 25 motion? So, we have a motion by Any questions or debate on the Hearing none, seeing none, all those in favor of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 85 1 the motion say aye. 2 (A chorus of ayes.) 3 THE CHAIR: 4 All those opposed to the motions, say nay? 5 (A chorus of nays.) 6 MR. SCARINCI: 7 THE CHAIR: I am abstaining, Mr. Chairman. So, on my account, based on 11 8 members voting, we have three nays, one abstention. 9 means we have seven in favor of. THE CHAIR: 10 11 carries. 12 to this program? 14 Could you just once again clarify exactly what that was on, so? 15 MR. TUCKER: 16 THE CHAIR: 17 MR. HARRIS: 18 right. 19 about… Okay. That was Dr. Harris? Dr. Harris… Oh, yes. I'm sorry, Dr. Harris, So, that was for the 04. 20 MR. TUCKER: 21 THE CHAIR: 22 MR. HARRIS: 23 Then, based on that, then the motion Are there any other further motions with respect MR. HARRIS: 13 That MR. TUCKER: We were talking Dr. Brown, this is Dennis Tucker. Please proceed, Dennis. Okay. The committee recommends Obverse 4. 24 And when I say recommends, I mean recommends to the 25 Secretary of the Treasury, of course. Obverse 4 as www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 86 The 1 designed and Reverse 3 with the following changes. 2 name of the 369th Infantry removed. 3 removed. 4 accuracy of the rifle checked and confirmed or changed if 5 needed. 7 And I think the rifle laying on top MR. TUCKER: That was not part of my motion. preferred the saxophone on top. 11 make that part of the motion. THE CHAIR: 12 corrected. Then I'm wrong. -- this is Dr. Salter. 16 have to flip the flags, correct? 17 THE CHAIR: 18 MR. SALTER: I don't think I One last thing I didn't hear is, we Yes, Dr. Salter, that is correct. Okay. And I didn't hear that in the I just wanted to make sure. MR. HARRIS: 20 And I stand And one last thing. 15 motion. So, I did not technically Thank you, Dennis. MR. SALTER: 14 19 My sense from the conversation was that the committee 10 13 And the of the saxophone. 8 9 The ribbon of the Croix de Guerre added. THE CHAIR: 6 "LET'S GO," "RATTLERS" Okay. This is Richard Harris. Thanks. I also just 21 had a question. So, if we're going to put -- we're talking 22 about deleting the 369th Infantry Regiment from the back, 23 then we're going to keep that on the front and put New York 24 National Guard on the back of the -- I'm sorry, on the 25 reverse? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 87 1 2 THE CHAIR: So, Obverse 4 already includes both of those. MR. SALTER: 3 Yeah, this is Dr. Salter. So, Dr. 4 Harris, if you're looking at the one that's on the screen, 5 that's the one we're going to go with that has both. 6 MR. HARRIS: 7 THE CHAIR: Okay. I understand. Thank you. So, for the record, can we get a 8 motion so that the flags are flipped and reversed, that has 9 just been approved by the committee. 10 MR. TUCKER: 11 MR. VAN ALFEN: 12 THE CHAIR: 13 Dennis Tucker, so moved. We have a second. I'll second. That was Peter, correct? 14 MR. VAN ALFEN: 15 THE CHAIR: 16 Peter van Alfen. Correct. Any debates or discussion on the motion? 17 MR. HARRIS: 18 THE CHAIR: 19 MR. HARRIS: If I can… Hearing none -- go ahead. Yes. Oh, I'm sorry, Dr. Harris again. 20 Apropos, a comment that was made earlier, on the R3, then 21 is there any, I guess, is it your -- you have to call on 22 this, but would we want to keep or drop "ACT OF CONGRESS 23 2021"? 24 Medal, so that is -- that fact is pretty much inherent in 25 the title. Someone made the point it's a Congressional Gold So, I don't know whether we would want to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 88 1 eliminate that. 2 reverse of the medal a little less crowded, just as by 3 taking out, "LET'S GO," the "RATTLERS". 4 5 It makes -- it would make the back, the MR. TUCKER: Dr. Brown, this is Dennis Tucker. I would answer to that, if I might. 6 THE CHAIR: 7 MR. TUCKER: Please proceed. Dr. Harris, that terminology "ACT OF 8 CONGRESS" and the date of authorization is not required on 9 Congressional Gold Medals, but it's often considered 10 traditional. 11 Congressional Gold Medals like to see that wording. 12 does add a certain level of gravitas. 13 a bronze example of this medal in your hand, either the 14 one-and-a-half-inch size or the three-inch that you've 15 purchased or been given as a memento, it just makes it 16 immediately clear that this was more than just a private 17 issue, something that was made by a private firm, and that 18 it does have the imprimatur of the U.S. Congress. 19 just something to consider. 20 that in my motion because it's something that we've seen on 21 many Congressional Gold Medals. 22 23 And many of our liaisons for military-themed MR. HARRIS: very convincing. Okay. If you were to have THE CHAIR: 25 MR. TUCKER: That is I did not include removing Thank you very much. Thank you. 24 It Mike Moran? Yes, sir. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 That's Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 89 1 2 THE MORAN: Question is, is that a 50-star flag or 48? MS. STAFFORD: 3 This is April. It's 50. And the 4 CFA recommended it be shifted to be appropriate to the 5 historical time when the Hellfighters fought. MR. MORAN: 6 7 amendment to that effect? MR. TUCKER: 8 9 no. 10 it. If it means we have to vote again, But if we can quickly do a new motion, I would second THE CHAIR: 11 12 Dennis, would you accept a friendly Let's make that a new motion, if we could, gentleman. 13 MR. MORAN: Okay. Fine. 14 MR. TUCKER: 15 THE CHAIR: 16 Any questions or debate on the new motion? 17 Hearing none, all those in favor, aye. I second it. Dennis has seconded. 18 (A chorus of ayes.) 19 THE CHAIR: 20 21 22 23 I move. Those oppose, nay. The motion passes. Are there any further comments, suggestions or questions with respect to this program? Hearing none. And at this point, I would like to 24 again thank from the depth of our hearts, our liaisons, Dr. 25 Harris and Dr. Salter. I'd like to also thank Joe Menna www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 90 1 and Mike Costello for the fantastic work by your team of 2 artists. 3 that you and your team have done and your collaboration 4 with the liaisons. I'd like to thank April for the fantastic work That was the last order of business for today. 5 6 On that basis, I'd like to thank the members of the CCAC, 7 the Mint staff for their attendance today by 8 videoconference. The next CCAC public meeting is set for two days, 9 10 starting on February the 28th. 11 be announced on the Federal Register several weeks in 12 advance. 13 14 All upcoming meetings will And I will entertain a motion to adjourn. MR. BERNSTEIN: This is Art Bernstein. I move that we adjourned. 15 MR. VAN ALFEN: And also I second that. 16 MR. KOTLOWSKI: And this is Dean Kotlowski. 17 THE CHAIR: Gentlemen and ladies, members of the 18 committee, please remember, you're still required to score 19 your seats and turn them into the Mint. 20 think you turn them into April and Pam, they will take 21 those seats. 22 saying aye. 23 24 25 In this case, I All those in favor of adjournment signify by (A chorus of ayes.) THE CHAIR: It appears for me, from the guy from Brooklyn that the ayes have it. Wish you all a great www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 91 1 remainder of the day, and fantastic week. 2 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Okay. 3 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you. 4 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you. 5 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Bye. 6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 92 1 CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC 2 I, SHONDRA DAWSON, the officer before whom the 3 foregoing proceedings were taken, do hereby certify that 4 any witness(es) in the foregoing proceedings, prior to 5 testifying, were duly sworn; that the proceedings were 6 recorded by me and thereafter reduced to typewriting by a 7 qualified transcriptionist; that said digital audio 8 recording of said proceedings are a true and accurate 9 record to the best of my knowledge, skills, and ability; 10 that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by 11 any of the parties to the action in which this was taken; 12 and, further, that I am not a relative or employee of any 13 counsel or attorney employed by the parties hereto, nor 14 financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of this 15 action. 16 <%27143,Signature%> 17 SHONDRA DAWSON 18 Notary Public in and for the 19 District of Columbia 20 21 22 23 24 25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting January 24, 2023 Page 93 1 2 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER I, WINJOY VIJAYAN, do hereby certify that this 3 transcript was prepared from the digital audio recording of 4 the foregoing proceeding, that said transcript is a true 5 and accurate record of the proceedings to the best of my 6 knowledge, skills, and ability; that I am neither counsel 7 for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties to the 8 action in which this was taken; and, further, that I am not 9 a relative or employee of any counsel or attorney employed 10 by the parties hereto, nor financially or otherwise 11 interested in the outcome of this action. 12 13 <%17539,Signature%> 14 WINJOY VIJAYAN 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting [01 - 4a] 0 01 73:16 74:5 74:23 02 52:22 03 75:17 04 22:24 74:10 75:5,16 85:18 1 1 19:14,14 21:16 25:11,12 25:13,17,20,23 48:25 50:23 55:7 56:8,24 57:15 59:5,15 59:23 61:13 62:15,15 63:16 63:19 64:19 67:13,17 68:5 71:12 72:22 73:5 74:13 79:14,21 80:16 80:23 10 21:3 40:16 40:18 41:13 68:12 70:20 11 16:13 21:5 41:13 42:17,18 70:20 85:7 117-38 15:19 12 21:7 41:13 70:20 13 21:11 14 34:22 15 5:7 12:22 13:19 14:10 34:22 January 24, 2023 Page 1 15th 15:24 19:23 20:4,13 20:16 21:1 23:13 26:18,21 28:3 73:23,25 74:4,7,25 79:16,21 83:3 83:6 171 16:16 23:6 17539 93:13 18 39:9 1845 32:17 1886 20:24 1898 33:3 19 40:13 191 34:21 1916 15:24 1917 44:14,14 1918 16:13 36:1 37:15,25 38:16 43:14 44:14,25 73:15 1919 35:12 1998 39:9 1:05 1:15 2 2 18:9 19:19,24 21:22 40:14 46:23 48:19 58:9 59:16,22 61:10,25 62:1 64:1 67:12 69:14 70:24 71:18 75:12 2014 8:6 2015 8:13 2017 36:21 2018 8:8 2021 8:13 17:25 20:17 21:14 22:14 23:11,14 87:23 2022 3:5 5:7,8 9:3 12:22 13:20 14:4,8 14:10 2023 1:14 3:4 14:25 20th 45:22 21 17:24 23rd 35:14 24 1:14 3:4 2500 79:7 27143 92:16 28th 90:10 3 3 18:11 19:19 19:24 22:8 24:21 27:3 29:6 30:13 44:9,10,19 47:22,23 48:19 56:12 59:16,22 62:1 64:1,14 64:22 67:11,12 67:12 68:22 69:2,2,3,16 71:1 82:17 86:1 30 28:15 369 54:2 369th 15:20 16:3 19:21,23 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 20:3,5,12,15 20:25 21:13 22:9,13,23 23:8,10,13 26:1,18,22 27:11,13,20 28:4 34:17,25 35:11,12 38:10 38:12 40:11 48:5 54:20 74:2,7,11,25 76:9 82:18 83:3,5 86:2,22 4 4 18:6 19:25 22:21 24:11 25:24 30:13 40:18 46:22 47:8,9,9,16 51:20 52:11 53:2 55:21,22 56:17,18,25 57:20,23 59:5 59:11,18,19,22 59:24 61:9 64:10,23 65:8 67:12 68:6,23 70:18 71:2,14 73:1 74:9 78:4 80:4 82:13,13 82:16 85:23,25 87:1 400,000 40:17 48 32:17 89:2 4a 22:21,24 24:11 47:9,17 53:2 56:17,18 Meeting [4a - ago] 57:23 68:23 71:2 5 5 20:6,7,9 22:25 45:5 60:13 62:6,16 68:7 50 89:1,3 5602037 1:25 6 6 9:3 20:6,7,10 23:9 7 7 20:14 23:11 68:9 7a 23:11 8 8 20:17 23:15 52:16 62:17 9 9 20:21 23:22 48:22 99 39:9 9a 23:22 a abbreviated 16:6 ability 92:9 93:6 able 24:18 26:14 38:15 41:8 43:21 51:6 71:14 aboard 12:15 69:25 January 24, 2023 Page 2 above 41:15 65:14,16 71:5 absolutely 17:6 37:17 abstaining 85:6 abstention 85:8 accept 83:20,21 83:22 89:6 acceptable 72:23 accepted 57:8 accommodate 77:20 accomplishm... 5:8 accomplishm... 14:4 21:24 account 85:7 accuracy 44:18 86:4 accurate 43:14 73:8 83:17,19 92:8 93:5 accurately 13:2 acknowledge 8:5 acknowledge... 29:11 act 20:17 21:13 22:14 23:10,14 79:18,19 87:22 88:7 action 41:14,19 49:10 70:19,21 92:11,15 93:8 93:11 active 78:17 81:13 activity 49:11 actual 43:4 62:4 actually 3:5 7:12 18:24 24:19 26:21 27:9 29:6 33:15 34:8,10 35:24 36:22 37:24 43:15 70:14 75:20,20 76:2 84:3 add 29:3 35:7 76:7,13 83:15 88:12 added 52:18 82:20 86:3 addition 18:20 additional 22:23 26:25 32:12 72:7 75:9 81:22,25 82:6 additionally 3:12 45:8 address 75:12 addressed 7:25 adds 51:3 adequate 59:12 59:16 adjourn 90:12 adjourned 90:14 adjournment 90:21 administer 9:18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 administering 10:3 ado 18:2 adopted 16:1 adorned 23:1 adrian 16:7 20:23 advance 18:6 90:12 advanced 54:10 advise 84:16 advisory 3:3 9:14 11:20 14:5 affairs 6:21 7:8 7:9 affected 57:12 affixing 19:15 african 7:21 17:8 28:12,13 28:16 33:18,21 38:4,6,11,20 39:6,10,17,19 40:2,4,13,14 40:21 50:5,18 50:19,25 55:3 56:3 60:17,18 60:20 61:1 africans 60:17 61:4 afternoon 9:20 59:2 agenda 5:4 15:6 ago 17:18 53:22 Meeting [agree - armed] agree 44:24 57:15,19 61:14 63:17 66:9,15 71:1,12 79:9,9 79:9,14 84:21 agreeable 65:19 agreed 29:21 agreement 33:7 ahead 4:21 13:7 14:25 18:6 19:13 44:9,19 81:24 87:18 airmen 37:20 42:14 aisne 20:19 21:9,21 22:1 23:5,20 alfen 2:11 4:13 4:15 13:6,8,8 13:21,21 24:9 24:10 25:5 43:17 44:8 58:21 83:14,25 87:11,11,14 90:15 allegiance 11:1 11:2 allow 33:24 62:2 80:17 allows 60:25 alternative 49:17 amazing 16:22 amendment 30:14 44:20 65:18 89:7 January 24, 2023 Page 3 amendments 65:12 america 38:25 39:14 american 4:2 7:21 8:14,14 11:23 14:13,13 16:4,5,14 17:8 18:18 19:20 20:3,11,23 21:17,23 22:6 22:11,18 23:2 23:16 28:12,13 28:16 29:8 32:24 33:3,4 33:18,21 34:20 38:4,7 39:6,16 39:17 40:2,6 40:17 41:25 50:6,18,19 51:1 55:3 56:3 60:18,21 63:12 80:8 americans 34:17 38:6,11 38:20 39:10,19 40:5,13,14,18 40:21 54:18 60:20 61:1 amos 5:18 amount 41:4 analysis 30:9 63:16 anatomy 77:24 77:25 ancestors 50:17 ancient 8:17 9:13,24 79:2 announce 3:11 announced 90:11 annual 5:8 14:4 anonymous 55:14 answer 17:11 54:4 75:17 88:5 answered 44:21 answers 32:5 anthem 35:24 anybody 50:2 apologies 7:3 apologize 12:12 70:9 appalachian 49:12 appeal 63:23 appeals 51:24 appear 74:12 74:24 appears 90:24 applaud 63:5 65:20 appointed 8:7 9:3,7 appointment 10:4 45:18 70:3 appreciate 4:23 17:3,25 36:15 52:12,24 53:4 57:4,7,17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 57:21 58:8 63:6 68:7 79:23 84:11 appreciated 18:14 30:6 57:11 appreciation 49:8 appropriate 19:4 59:9 74:15 89:4 appropriately 19:1 approval 5:6 approve 13:4 13:18 approved 13:17 14:2 87:9 approximately 40:16,18 april 2:14 6:1 15:14 24:1 25:10 34:22 44:14 82:5 89:3 90:2,20 apropos 87:20 arched 21:17 area 54:18 arena 34:18 argonne 20:20 21:10,21 22:2 23:6,21 arm's 63:18 78:15 armed 20:24 20:24 Meeting [army - bayonet] army 7:20 15:9 19:23 20:5,12 20:15,25 21:13 22:13,23 23:10 23:13 26:18,22 27:20 28:1 33:10 55:2 82:14 arrived 35:25 art 50:21 52:8 55:8,9 57:10 90:13 arthur 2:2 3:17 13:10 52:9 articles 37:15 46:8 articulate 30:9 65:22 artist 77:25 artistic 25:12 28:18 43:13 50:22 64:20 66:20 77:24 artistry 47:9 62:19 artists 34:24 48:17 77:5,22 90:2 arts 4:5 18:5 19:12 27:3 29:17,17 artsy 55:9,17 56:6 asked 28:5 36:5 84:18 asking 24:2 27:7 January 24, 2023 Page 4 aspect 33:12 43:1 56:19 aspects 42:9,11 assembled 22:9 assigned 16:3 assist 41:8 assisting 84:15 associated 22:25 association 8:14 assume 48:4 assuming 27:20 84:19 atop 21:16 attendance 90:7 attended 9:23 attending 5:23 attention 31:2 37:18 52:20 76:24 attitude 38:24 attorney 92:13 93:9 attracted 52:16 attractive 53:3 59:8 79:4 audiences 16:12 audio 92:7 93:3 august 17:24 author 9:12 authorization 88:8 authorized 63:8 avenue 35:13 award 31:5 awarded 16:15 16:16 23:8 31:10 awards 15:20 aware 5:14 17:12 39:15 69:21 awesome 5:21 awful 66:10 74:24 aye 13:13,14,23 13:24 85:1 89:17 90:22 ayes 85:2 89:18 90:23,25 b back 3:5 24:2 27:21 28:4,17 29:4 32:6,17 33:2 34:15 35:2,5,8,9 37:24 38:24 46:18 47:20 48:14 51:1 56:9 57:14 58:4 73:19 74:12 75:3 76:11,16 77:15 80:21 86:22,24 88:1 background 12:8 15:19 19:17 49:5 51:2,6,15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 backs 53:21 backside 27:25 badge 25:1 69:16 balance 52:24 band 16:11,11 27:13 29:11 34:6,8 35:2,6 35:10,13,15,17 35:18 39:25 42:3,6 58:5 barbed 43:11 barren 73:15 based 5:1 10:5 12:21 13:12 70:15 72:8,17 72:19 85:7,10 bases 68:16 basic 74:24 basically 25:4 35:14 55:13 basis 67:7,8,19 82:9 90:6 battalion 53:19 battle 16:23 19:15 43:7 50:15 67:25 battlefield 20:22 38:16 42:4 43:10 battlefields 19:17 battlefront 21:8,12 bayonet 19:16 55:12 67:18,18 68:2,2 77:13 Meeting [bear - catching] bear 10:24,25 beautiful 52:5 59:8 beauty 51:3 beg 76:20 began 17:18,21 beginning 3:11 33:16 34:1,2 34:12 35:3 50:6 begins 40:6 beings 62:3 belgium 9:13 believe 5:19 35:6 39:1 44:9 59:16 beloved 60:10 bench 76:20 beneficial 45:7 benefit 45:13 benefits 36:2 40:24 bernstein 2:2 3:17,19 13:10 13:10 52:9,9 90:13,13 berthier 22:11 43:23 44:11 best 25:24 28:24 44:4,23 52:4 56:5,6,7 56:17,23 65:9 65:25 66:12,12 68:23 92:9 93:5 better 12:7 27:5 30:19 55:20 59:23 January 24, 2023 Page 5 68:8,20 80:11 biden 17:24 big 35:13,15 bit 24:24 25:15 31:7,9 47:18 47:21 48:21 51:7,15 black 39:4 60:11 blacks 60:17 61:3 bleed 77:12 block 37:7 board 7:17 body 77:15 81:6 boneza 2:19 6:13 book 26:5,7,14 38:1 boosting 16:10 border 77:8 borer 2:17 6:9 6:10 boss 80:2 boston 54:24 bottom 78:5 box 39:23 branches 21:25 bravery 15:22 16:10,17,21 23:17 53:20 66:12 brendan 2:25 7:7 brief 48:19 75:8 brigade 34:8 bring 22:1 57:25 bringing 38:24 57:6 66:18 brings 38:16 62:9 bronze 23:2 88:13 brooklyn 90:25 brought 23:18 34:14 35:19 37:18 brown 2:12 8:1 9:22 12:11 24:9 47:1 50:13 53:15 57:5 58:21,24 60:7 63:4 64:16 70:2 76:18 81:15 82:11 83:14 84:1,21 85:20 88:4 buffalo 32:22 50:18 building 54:11 bullets 67:3,3 bullion 14:12 business 9:1 12:18 14:2 90:5 buttons 69:8 bye 91:5 byes 14:15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 c c 2:1 3:1 caked 32:6 call 3:2,16 6:24 8:3 26:5 49:17 60:9 87:21 called 5:25 44:4 63:17 calling 45:13 calls 63:18 campaign 23:4 campaigns 19:7 53:1 70:24,25 71:18 71:25 candidate 5:10 15:7,16 18:2 21:14 23:24 30:16 candle 54:4 capitol 53:23 53:25 capture 26:9 81:17 caribbean 61:4 carolina 50:15 carried 48:5 carries 85:11 carrying 20:18 case 42:22 65:7 71:9 90:19 cast 80:9 casualties 34:22 catches 47:4 catching 77:9 Meeting [caught - closer] January 24, 2023 Page 6 caught 47:5,8 89:4 48:25,25 51:21 chair 3:2,20,23 4:1,4,7,10,13 cause 54:25 4:16 5:1,22 6:4 75:2 6:7,9,11,13,15 ccac 1:12 5:5 6:17,20 7:1,3,7 5:13 6:22 8:6 7:11,17 8:4,12 8:11,12,12,20 9:17 12:12 8:22,25 10:1,4 13:3,7,12,15 12:16 14:9,15 13:23,25 14:22 14:21,24 15:4 15:10 24:1 36:3 40:25 25:6 26:24 41:2 58:24 30:6,21 31:17 70:11 90:6,9 32:12 33:11 celebrated 39:7 36:2 37:3 celebration 40:23 42:17 36:21 43:15 45:1,19 centennial 49:22 50:10 39:12,14 51:19 52:7 center 43:6 53:13 57:3 century 36:8 58:20,25 59:25 45:23 60:4,5 63:2 certain 76:22 64:17 66:1,6 88:12 69:24 70:6,10 certainly 17:25 75:9 76:10,14 29:7 30:19,22 78:22 79:23 33:3 57:17 80:13 81:14,19 58:9 59:12,21 82:2,9,24 83:1 60:19,21 71:12 83:12,20,23 73:5,12 84:7,11,23 certificate 92:1 85:3,7,10,16 93:1 85:21 86:6,12 certify 92:3 86:17 87:1,7 93:2 87:12,15,18 cetera 61:5 88:6,24 89:11 cfa 18:8,12,12 89:15,19 90:17 18:21 20:2 90:24 22:15 25:16 31:2 52:11 chairman 12:24 13:6 16:25 23:24 30:7,25 45:16 45:18 47:1 50:9 53:12 58:19,24 60:13 72:15,15 76:13 85:6 champagne 20:19 21:9,21 22:3 23:4,21 change 27:3,4 29:1 83:18,20 changed 64:5 72:19 86:4 changes 30:14 47:25 48:1 82:17 84:4 86:1 character 80:9 charge 19:16 21:6 43:13 charging 21:4 43:5 chart 11:22 cheat 24:24 checked 86:4 checkmark 66:20,21 chief 6:1,15 7:1 15:14 chin 29:2 choice 52:23 53:21 64:13,14 65:9 choices 57:13 58:12 61:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 76:8,21 77:24 80:11 choose 71:16 77:22 chorus 85:2,5 89:18 90:23 chosen 71:17 christ 56:11 cinematic 63:20 circulating 14:11 circumstance 34:3 citation 16:16 citizens 3:3 9:14 11:19 14:5 civil 39:3,11 50:4,8 55:2 clarify 85:13 classes 9:24 classic 46:17 classically 80:6 cleaner 47:18 clear 43:22 44:1 49:5,6 67:18 68:2,3 88:16 clearly 10:12 64:19 65:20,21 66:11 close 25:12 40:9,11 47:14 62:11 closely 22:25 closer 67:16 Meeting [club - congressional] club 8:19 coast 8:18 51:8 67:23 coiled 21:23 22:10 23:3 coin 5:18 9:9 9:10,23 27:23 28:17 78:5,7 79:4 coinage 3:3 9:12,14,25 11:20 12:4 14:5 coined 47:3 coinnews 5:17 coins 9:24 10:8 14:11 47:4,13 67:1 68:25 cold 46:5 colin 60:19 collaboration 90:3 colleague 8:21 60:14 colleagues 14:16 15:11 41:2 47:19 49:9 57:6 58:22 59:4 60:6 61:12 69:25 71:3,12 72:3 collector 9:10 9:10 college 9:24 colonel 7:21 71:6 January 24, 2023 Page 7 columbia 92:19 combat 16:14 28:22,22 48:22 48:23 55:12,13 64:3,8 combination 27:22 combine 74:23 combining 28:13 come 25:2 31:21 37:9 40:5 55:15,23 56:7 69:1 79:3 comfortable 84:8 coming 3:6 35:5 62:25 63:13 68:14,15 82:24 commander 33:18 commemorat... 22:8 comment 25:19 43:16 52:21 66:25 67:20 68:7 69:3 79:8 80:4 81:25 87:20 comments 12:21 24:7 30:22 32:13 45:5,8 61:12 66:8,24 69:19 70:8,15 72:1,7 75:8,10,14 77:24 79:24,25 81:22 82:6 89:21 commission 18:5 19:12 27:2 committed 65:8 committee 3:3 3:9,16 7:18 9:14 11:20 12:9 14:5 17:5 24:2,3 25:7,13 29:17 31:18 37:1,2 45:3 49:9,23 56:1 56:10 57:1 72:8 76:21 80:1 82:16 85:23 86:9 87:9 90:18 common 54:24 commonly 15:21 community 37:19 compared 41:20 64:3 completely 55:24 56:18 component 34:3 composition 18:24 compromise 78:8 comrades 19:16 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 conceived 77:21 80:5,6 concept 47:2 concern 49:6 concerned 29:4 37:6 43:4 49:4 concerning 24:11 concerns 47:23 concludes 23:24 concurrent 34:11 conditions 19:18 confirm 5:23 confirmed 51:5 86:4 conflict 13:1 congratulate 58:23 60:7 congratulatio... 11:19 45:17,18 70:2 congress 17:23 20:17 21:13 22:14 23:11,14 63:10 79:18,19 87:22 88:8,18 congressional 5:10 7:5,14 14:11 15:7,17 15:20 17:16 24:5 33:9 36:16 46:16 63:9,21 64:12 64:25 65:4 75:15 76:9 Meeting [congressional - dean] 79:19 87:23 88:9,11,21 consider 8:20 8:21 30:8 76:17 88:19 consideration 22:5 25:14 30:22 31:4 45:4,7 49:21 66:22 68:19 considerations 26:10 considered 88:9 considering 19:4 25:23 41:6 consistent 12:3 constituent 25:13 65:7,16 65:19 constituents 30:19 65:3 constitution 10:16,18 consultants 66:17 context 36:3,6 36:17 40:25 61:2 continent 61:4 continue 8:23 contrary 63:23 contribute 12:6 contribution 18:13,14 39:16 58:11 59:2 70:11 72:3 January 24, 2023 Page 8 contributions 8:23 9:15 48:10 50:6 58:3,8 control 16:5 conversation 30:11 63:6 72:4 86:9 convey 26:15 convincing 88:23 copy 26:17 corps 34:8 correct 32:15 86:16,17 87:13 87:14 corrected 86:13 correction 12:25 corrugated 25:3 costello 2:21 6:17,19 90:1 counsel 7:1,4 84:15,19 92:10 92:13 93:6,9 countries 48:11 country 28:23 36:11 38:7 60:9,10 62:24 country's 51:1 couple 29:5 30:23 31:17 37:19 48:22 66:8,24 75:8 courage 16:22 course 33:8 34:14 35:17 50:22 85:25 court 45:13 cousin 39:21 cove 7:16,19 17:19 36:13 37:20 cowboys 50:19 crazy 35:21 creating 50:5 69:14 creative 48:9 credit 47:2 66:13 crest 22:8 critical 41:5 71:5 criticism 63:22 croix 16:15,17 18:22 19:21 21:16,22 22:11 22:22 23:1,7,9 23:11 29:18,24 30:4 47:10 51:22 56:15 74:21 76:5 82:20 86:3 cronkite 53:18 cross 81:2,4,5 crossed 21:17 21:23,25 23:2 23:3,15 crowded 88:2 cuff 68:21 cultural 18:14 43:1 46:6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 curate 38:3 curation 14:20 curator 4:14 39:18 curiosity 42:18 curious 36:7,14 41:11,14,19 42:19 73:3 currently 7:22 cusp 60:11 cut 60:15 d d 3:1 date 88:8 daughter 36:23 36:24 dawson 1:23 92:2,17 day 36:1 58:12 91:1 days 16:14 34:21 90:9 de 16:15,17 18:22 19:21 21:16,22 22:11 22:22 23:1,7,9 23:11 29:18,24 30:4 47:10 51:22 56:15 74:21 76:5 82:20 86:3 dean 2:5 4:1 45:15 50:10 59:4 63:25 64:5 72:9,10 72:13 76:11 84:1,11 90:16 Meeting [dear - dimensionally] dear 3:11,11 5:24 8:21 debate 84:24 89:16 debates 87:15 deceased 78:11 december 9:3 decide 63:1 decided 25:22 25:24 decimated 66:10 decision 70:23 decisions 70:15 dedication 16:21 defend 10:14 10:15 defensive 20:19 21:9 22:3 23:5 23:21 defer 15:11 deference 70:12 deferential 46:12 48:16 definitely 64:22 delay 44:8 delete 30:3 deleting 86:22 deliberations 45:15 62:23 demonstrate 3:6 42:18 dennis 2:10 4:10 63:3 76:25 81:14,16 January 24, 2023 Page 9 82:4,9,12 83:7 83:12,15,23 84:24 85:20,21 86:13 87:10 88:4 89:6,15 dennis's 83:13 dents 43:11 depict 19:2,20 20:7 23:11 44:23 depicted 48:20 55:13 depiction 43:18 44:10,10 52:17 74:15 depictions 43:20,22 49:1 depicts 19:15 20:2,21 21:3,7 21:11 22:25 23:9,15 25:25 depth 45:24 81:12 89:24 deputy 8:7 descendants 37:1 descent 40:2 60:18 described 77:1 descriptions 51:6 deserves 56:21 design 6:1,4,7 6:9,11,13,17 14:10 15:15 18:12,20 20:2 20:9,10,11 21:18 22:4,24 23:18 26:20 29:14,22,23 36:6 40:25 41:11 46:17,24 47:16,18,21 48:9 49:16,17 51:3,4,7 52:10 52:14,19,22 56:8 57:1,8,16 59:15,19 61:15 63:21,24 64:9 64:12 67:13 68:8 70:18 74:5 78:17,17 80:1 82:7,20 designated 16:2 74:1 designation 28:1 designed 56:10 86:1 designer 24:16 designs 5:10 15:7,16 18:3,3 18:15,16,25 19:14 20:7 21:14,15 23:25 24:4 30:10,12 41:12,13,18 42:5 47:12 48:17,18 49:22 50:22 51:9 52:3,5 53:2 58:23 59:7 62:10 66:8,19 66:25 67:2,11 73:18 84:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 destroyed 39:23 destruction 73:13 detail 44:6 47:14 55:23 67:4 69:5,7,8 81:7 detailed 22:21 69:22 details 52:25 67:9 74:6 determination 42:15 57:18 62:12 determined 48:21 developed 47:2 development 17:1 device 25:2 devices 77:22 died 54:25 dies 79:11 difference 79:12 different 32:5,8 42:22 48:11,12 51:16,24 72:25 difficult 36:25 digital 92:7 93:3 dignified 64:10 dignity 16:22 26:8 diligent 52:19 dimensionally 77:21 Meeting [dinner - ended] dinner 70:4 diplomacy 46:7 direct 72:18 direction 16:11 director 6:20 6:24 9:17,17 9:19 dirt 73:11 disagree 65:7 discharge 11:11,12 discrimination 16:19 discussed 19:10 30:1 discussing 26:4 discussion 5:9 17:3,16 24:6 25:17 28:9 45:11 64:5 72:17,20 76:19 87:15 disgusting 54:7 54:21 dislike 69:20 displayed 53:25 distinguish 28:21 distinguished 70:25 district 92:19 disturbing 16:20 dividing 55:11 division 34:8 doctors 17:2,3 25:18 45:21 January 24, 2023 Page 10 doing 17:21 47:24 51:12 56:11 dollar 14:13,13 domestic 10:21 10:23 don 69:4 donald 2:9 5:2 8:2 25:8 26:24 56:2 64:17 66:1 doubt 12:17 doughboy 16:8 20:23 22:22 31:20 32:16 33:10 downrange 34:6 dozen 17:20 dr 3:20 4:1,13 7:14,20 8:1 9:22 12:11 24:9 26:3 45:15 47:7 48:2 50:1,13 53:15 57:5 58:21 60:1,7 63:4,10,10 64:6,16 70:2 75:9,11 76:18 81:15 82:11,15 82:25 83:14 84:1,21 85:15 85:16,17,20 86:15,17 87:3 87:3,19 88:4,7 89:24,25 drachms 79:5 draft 81:7 draped 20:11 drawings 62:4 drawn 77:2 drivers 54:12 drop 48:3 87:22 dropping 49:6 duly 92:5 dust 32:7 duties 11:11,13 52:20 e e 2:1,1 3:1,1 earlier 50:7 59:2 72:15 76:16 87:20 early 32:23 34:22 echo 67:20 edge 78:7 edition 26:17 editor 5:17,18 editorialize 31:14 76:21 editorializing 78:13 edits 22:16 effect 89:7 effective 55:8 eight 38:10 40:12,12 either 25:23 28:21 39:22 88:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 elegant 80:10 element 35:11 52:18 elements 22:9 22:25 70:19 eleven 68:16 eliminate 29:15 80:16 88:1 eliot 68:19 elite 12:2 eloquent 57:6 eloquently 59:6 66:9 else's 77:9 emblem 19:21 52:25 emboss 24:19 embrace 8:23 71:3,4,13 embracing 41:15 emerging 49:17 eminently 24:23 emotion 55:23 emotional 55:16 61:16 employed 92:10,13 93:7 93:9 employee 92:12 93:9 encourage 75:5 encouraged 38:21 ended 16:13 17:23 37:8 Meeting [endorse - far] endorse 61:9 64:14 endorsed 64:13 enemies 10:20 10:22 enemy 81:13 engaged 46:6 65:6 71:25 english 54:15 engraver 6:15 engraving 6:18 enter 11:15,17 entered 74:1 entertain 12:20 84:10 90:12 entertainment 34:18 enthusiastica... 10:1 entire 57:20 entity 34:7 environment 38:18 equal 38:18,23 38:24 equipment 16:7 era 37:25 46:6 eraser 54:5 es 92:4 especially 38:11 45:7 51:10 73:13 essay 26:4 essentially 73:1 73:15 estimation 52:6 January 24, 2023 Page 11 et 61:5 europe 16:11 22:1 23:18 33:23 34:5,14 35:4,19 42:3 67:24 europe's 21:19 35:18 european 16:12 evans 2:18 6:11 6:12 evasion 11:7,8 eve 35:25 event 58:17 events 36:9 everybody 12:7 12:8 66:10,18 69:6 70:1,5 everyone's 75:14 evidently 35:19 evolve 70:14 evolved 72:16 exactly 44:23 85:14 example 26:2 73:7,21 88:13 excellent 49:23 63:5 64:15 74:18 75:2,6 except 45:6 56:2 80:8 exceptional 58:4 exceptionally 59:8 exchange 46:3 excitement 3:6 exciting 52:21 exclusively 44:15 77:9 excuse 4:19 47:22 74:9 execute 39:3 exhibit 17:22 exhibited 16:23 exhibition 38:2 40:3 exhibits 7:17 expect 48:23 expecting 5:2 experience 8:25 28:14 38:4 39:16,17 experiences 40:21 experts 17:1 66:18 explain 36:10 explanations 75:7 explore 41:9 exposition 64:19 express 60:8 expressed 59:5 expressionistic 78:1 extend 69:25 extensively 24:17 extraordinary 16:21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 extremely 50:8 eye 47:5,5,8 48:25 49:1 51:21 eyes 42:14 f face 16:23 62:11 74:13 77:18,18,19 78:3 80:18 faced 16:18 facilitating 63:5 facing 79:1,2,4 fact 3:5 12:13 12:20,23 13:4 13:4 14:7 15:3 17:19 32:22 33:13 35:11 36:8,8 41:13 41:16,19 42:13 42:21 43:17 45:6 58:22 62:2,21 65:20 70:8,18,21 71:14 72:9 76:16 79:17,18 84:17 87:24 factors 36:10 facts 55:1 faith 10:24,25 faithfully 11:11 11:12 fantastic 90:1,2 91:1 far 26:10 29:3 37:5,5,9 47:6 Meeting [far - foreign] 76:23 farther 51:1 fascinating 37:11,17 fast 39:8 46:5 father's 50:16 fault 77:8 favor 13:13,23 41:20 67:17 68:5 84:25 85:9 89:17 90:21 favored 41:16 favoring 79:17 favorite 71:1 feature 18:3 22:21 23:22 features 20:12 20:14,17 21:5 21:16,22 23:18 featuring 53:10 february 35:12 90:10 federal 90:11 feedback 4:23 31:20 feel 25:13 27:2 30:16 43:12 45:6 47:19 59:3 61:16,17 61:19 62:3,9 65:4 81:18 84:8 feeling 9:12 feels 65:16 felt 18:12 19:6 24:19 38:22 41:5 49:15 January 24, 2023 Page 12 54:7 64:2 fierce 21:6 fifth 35:13 fight 38:12,12 38:14,14 54:18 fighter 61:21 fighting 27:14 38:2 39:5 58:6 58:17 figure 74:13 77:15 figured 12:1 28:19 67:16 figures 26:12 77:7,16 78:4,8 file 24:16 fill 10:4 74:6 film 50:2,3 final 33:7 finally 5:9 7:11 14:14 17:23 21:11 23:22 25:22 63:10 financially 92:14 93:10 find 40:4 43:21 43:22 59:11,14 72:22,22 75:4 finding 39:19 39:20 fine 18:5 19:12 27:3 29:17 58:14 59:12 68:6 69:15 75:25 89:13 finesse 25:1 finish 54:10 finished 51:16 fire 37:6,7 49:5 49:11 51:5,8 73:9 firefighter 68:10,11 fires 73:13 firm 88:17 first 9:1 12:20 14:8 15:18 17:6 18:6 28:17 29:13 32:21 33:22 34:21,23 35:24 37:12,25 38:8 41:22 50:19 52:23 53:16 60:5 61:1,5 62:7 66:8,16 66:25 67:5,6,8 67:13,14,18,22 68:9,17,21 69:20,22 70:8 72:13 74:11 77:11 84:9 fiscal 5:8 14:4 14:9 fitting 58:13 five 14:9,11 23:18 33:21 44:12,14,17 51:10 fix 68:5 flaccid 78:12 flag 18:19 19:2 19:3 20:11 22:18 29:8 89:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 flags 21:17,23 22:7,11 23:2 23:16 29:8 30:3 51:15 52:25 62:19 86:16 87:8 flames 19:17 55:15 67:21 68:3,4,4 77:17 flap 53:8 flat 77:19 78:3 78:18 80:12 fleet 78:3 flip 86:16 flipped 87:8 flow 40:6 fluid 77:25 focus 28:21 72:22 73:2 focusing 26:2 folk 53:25 folks 27:12 28:19 38:22 39:1 75:19 77:2 follow 27:1 following 5:5 5:23 72:15 82:17 86:1 footage 32:21 32:22 forced 38:20 39:23 forcefully 59:6 foregoing 92:3 92:4 93:4 foreign 10:20 10:22 Meeting [forgive - going] forgive 41:2 72:12 formal 14:15 forth 46:18 74:14,25 forward 8:24 9:15 11:21,23 12:6 14:24 18:22 21:4 22:5,18 46:5 62:25 68:15 70:3,4,6 75:16 79:4 fought 89:5 found 17:18 52:17 53:2 founder 5:17 four 21:3 28:1 28:24 40:14 fourth 77:15 france 16:2 20:22 35:19 51:8 54:12 73:10 francisco 8:17 frankly 66:23 77:20 free 52:13 freely 11:3,4 french 16:3,7 16:15 20:11,23 21:17,23 22:7 22:10,11,19 23:2,16 34:16 35:21,24 44:1 44:14 54:15 friend 8:21 44:4 January 24, 2023 Page 13 friendly 89:6 frivolous 64:3 front 20:10 26:22 27:24 28:1,3 75:3 83:4,5,10 86:23 frontal 49:2 77:5 full 15:4,9 20:18 31:12 77:5 fuller 2:3 3:20 3:22 60:1,1,2 functions 63:8 further 18:2 41:9 44:24 85:11 89:21 92:12 93:8 future 15:1 41:7 g g 3:1 gangsters 68:18 gap 69:14 gathering 37:4 gaudens 54:22 general 3:17,23 14:18 24:5 60:19 66:25 77:10 generalship 54:19 generate 24:17 generation 39:2,3 66:11 generous 58:10 genesis 34:13 35:1 gentleman 89:12 gentlemen 24:6 24:11 90:17 german 34:22 germans 34:23 getting 32:6 35:5 47:25 gibson 2:13 6:24,24 9:17 9:19,20 10:14 10:16,20,24 11:1,3,5,7,9,11 11:14,18 12:11 gifted 31:5,10 gilkes 5:18 gill 2:4 3:23,25 12:24,24 13:22 13:22 57:4,5 give 31:11 37:23 39:11 40:10 47:1 48:16 55:7 61:11 62:11,13 63:19 64:7 70:7,8,12 80:17 given 33:12 36:23 41:16 51:23 88:15 gives 55:14 58:8 giving 61:22 68:20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 glen 7:16,18 17:19 36:12 37:20 glory 39:9 50:2 54:23 go 4:21 8:24 13:7 18:17 19:5,13,13 21:20 22:13 28:17 29:4,15 30:4 32:17 33:2,25 34:15 35:1 39:8 41:21 44:6,9 44:19 45:23 46:18,22 47:20 48:14 50:7,21 52:2 54:19 56:10 57:1,14 61:13,23,25 62:6,14,15 65:23 67:9 69:2 71:16 72:10,10,11 75:4,16,17,23 76:7 79:13,21 81:24 82:19 86:2 87:5,18 88:3 god 54:3 goes 35:2 81:7 going 11:23 12:9 17:11 26:7 27:21 28:22 31:14 32:6 37:14 38:22 41:7,7 43:9 46:1,9 Meeting [going - harlem] 47:6,19 49:13 50:1 51:17 52:12 53:11,23 56:9,11,12,12 56:14 57:1,14 57:15,19,21 58:13 61:6 63:19 65:8,23 66:24 67:8,9 68:15,22 69:1 75:11,12 76:5 76:9 77:19 78:11 80:12 86:21,23 87:5 gold 5:11 7:5 7:14 9:12 14:11 15:8,17 15:20 17:16 24:5 33:9 36:16,16 46:16 46:16 63:9,21 64:12,25 65:4 75:15 76:9 87:23 88:9,11 88:21 good 9:20 14:15 38:15 46:13,18,24 54:9 58:10 61:7 64:11 65:12 66:6,23 67:4,6 73:23 74:22 google 75:4 76:4 gotten 41:18 government 7:7 46:7 January 24, 2023 Page 14 grabs 55:9 57:17 61:22 grand 39:21,21 grandfather 39:21 graphic 77:3 80:10 graphically 77:21 80:5 grateful 49:24 gratitude 60:8 gravitas 88:12 great 14:25 47:9 57:10 60:16 62:24 63:23 90:25 greater 81:4 greatest 26:2 greeks 79:2,3 greg 2:23 grit 55:19 ground 77:16 grounds 53:23 group 5:17 8:12 10:8 12:2 12:5,8,10 15:1 15:2 52:14 57:9 64:20,21 65:7,16,19 66:11,18 growing 53:16 guard 15:25 19:23 20:5,13 20:16 21:2 26:18,21 27:25 73:24,25 74:1 74:7 82:14 86:24 guerre 16:15 16:17 18:22 19:21 21:16,22 22:11,22 23:1 23:7,9,12 29:18,24 30:5 47:10 51:22 56:16 74:21 76:5 82:20 86:3 guess 26:5 27:6 27:19 33:23 47:23 60:2 87:21 guided 81:17 gun 48:5 65:14 65:16 guns 68:18 guy 67:15 68:12,14 90:24 guy's 56:22 guys 49:13 h half 37:7 88:14 hanchock 2:19 6:13,14 hand 10:11 11:18 24:23 25:9 30:23 70:7 71:9 72:9 77:12,13 78:16 78:23 80:14 81:21,24 84:2 84:13 88:13 handicaps 12:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 handsome 64:11 handwrought 79:11 hang 18:24 56:15 hanging 23:16 75:24 hangs 46:25 happen 17:7 80:2 happened 37:16,17 happens 77:22 happy 17:13 51:5 58:9 60:10 75:14 harcourt 2:3 3:20 59:25 hardened 19:15 harlem 5:10 7:4,14 15:7,21 15:23 16:5,9 16:13,18,22 17:16,20 18:13 19:7,15,19,22 20:4,7,8,14,18 20:21 21:1,3,5 21:6,7,8,11,24 23:1,17,20,23 24:4 26:22 27:12 33:20 35:15 36:22,24 37:2,12 45:24 49:12 60:23 63:11 64:4 73:10,17 77:11 Meeting [harlem - idea] 80:16,22,23 82:14 harris 7:15 17:2,3,14,14 25:19,21,21 29:3 31:1 32:2 32:15,20 33:1 33:6 35:10 36:19 45:21 47:8 48:2 63:10 73:4,4 82:15 85:13,15 85:16,17,17,22 86:20,20 87:4 87:6,17,19,19 88:7,22 89:25 hate 56:23 66:19 80:12 hayward 33:16 33:22 head 32:9 77:1 hear 31:23 36:3 38:13 40:25 60:3 86:15,18 heard 5:1 31:21 32:11 33:5 42:1,2 70:15 72:8,20 83:5 hearing 3:13 47:20 84:19,25 87:18 89:17,23 heart 36:22 heartiest 45:21 hearts 89:24 heavy 51:21 53:6 January 24, 2023 Page 15 held 54:3 hell 49:13 hellfighter 20:15,18 37:2 hellfighters 5:10 7:5,14 15:7,17,21,23 16:6,9,13,18 16:23 17:17,21 18:13 19:7,15 19:19,22 20:4 20:8,9,21 21:1 21:3,5,6,7,8,12 21:25 23:1,17 23:20,23 24:4 26:22 27:12 33:20 36:22,24 37:13 44:16 45:24 49:12 59:10 60:24 63:11 64:4 73:10,18 77:11 80:16,23,23 82:15 89:5 helmet 16:7 20:23 77:19 help 36:15 79:1 79:7 80:25 helped 22:1 48:7 helpful 4:22 28:6 helps 41:9 61:2 henry 26:2 hereto 92:13 93:10 hero 26:2 54:1 heroes 31:5,10 63:13 heroic 36:9 43:13 53:24 hey 40:7 hi 13:8 high 61:22 62:13 highest 78:19 highlight 27:10 61:7 highlighted 76:23 hill 53:25 historian 7:21 7:22 17:8,9 28:12,12 40:9 42:1,25 45:22 historians 44:5 60:15 historic 27:23 historical 7:18 28:10 32:10 33:14 36:3,17 37:24 39:11 40:19 89:5 historically 83:17,18 history 4:2 9:25 17:9 28:12 39:6 40:2 41:8 43:1 50:14 51:2 52:1 54:6 57:25 58:1,15 60:11,18,21 hit 41:22 76:25 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 hitting 32:9 hoge 14:19 hold 45:10 76:15 81:19 holding 38:1 67:15 77:12 78:16 homage 62:21 honor 10:2,10 17:7,10 45:20 63:14 honored 17:15 51:17 58:4,18 62:22 78:12 honoring 59:9 hope 12:5 26:14 60:13 68:20 horace 34:24 34:24 horror 55:14 house 3:21 4:17 8:9 9:4 10:5,6,7 14:17 houses 54:16 how's 66:5 human 54:24 61:18 62:3 humanities 7:16 i i.e. 68:25 idea 48:7 50:23 56:14 64:6 66:15 73:23 74:21 Meeting [identified - intergovernmental] identified 18:4 18:10 ignores 56:19 ii 38:13 39:3,5 43:7 illuminated 49:25 illuminates 40:20 image 16:1 24:17 44:25 73:5 77:3 images 28:25 imagine 81:4,5 immediately 51:21 88:16 importance 27:11 36:15 50:25 59:14 important 14:6 18:23 19:8 29:10 31:15 35:11 38:5 39:13 40:20 41:17,23,25 45:25 46:5,9 48:13,15 50:8 51:25 56:20 58:1 63:8,15 71:19 74:4 imposing 64:6 impressed 66:17,23 impression 67:5,7,8,14,19 69:21 impressions 68:21 69:22 imprimatur 88:18 inaccuracies 43:19 inaudible 79:5 inch 88:14,14 inches 24:21 25:4 include 73:23 88:19 included 18:23 19:9 72:24 includes 5:4 87:1 including 8:16 14:10,16,25 16:7 27:6 inclusion 49:11 incorporated 18:15 incorporates 52:14,24 incorporating 53:3 incuse 80:16,22 81:11 incused 51:3 incusing 81:6 81:11,13 indicate 5:24 indications 75:7 individual 28:18 49:9 54:18 55:11 59:13 66:7 individually 16:16 January 24, 2023 Page 16 individuals 10:8 33:22 34:23 49:2 52:15 indulgence 72:5 76:20 infamous 19:18 infantry 15:20 16:3 19:20,24 20:3,5,12,16 20:25 21:13 22:9,13,23 23:10,13 25:1 26:23 27:20 34:25 54:10 82:18 86:2,22 information 41:10 74:24 informative 59:1 infuriating 16:20 inherent 87:24 initial 17:12 initially 8:7 63:25 67:11 innovation 14:13 input 11:21 inscription 19:5,19 20:8 21:5,7 22:23 22:24 23:6 inscriptions 19:1,22 20:4 20:12,15,19,25 21:9,12,20 22:1,12 23:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 23:13,19,23 71:15 inside 81:7 insignia 21:24 22:10 23:12,19 23:22 29:16,22 31:3,4,6,7,8,8 31:13,15 42:12 56:15 institute 7:16 instructive 31:18 59:1 instrument 27:6,9,10 42:7 65:15 instrumental 40:7 instruments 18:21 65:14 71:21 intended 47:3 interactions 48:10 intercede 77:23 interest 14:18 15:9 60:16,22 interested 37:12 39:10 67:1,1 92:14 93:11 interesting 31:23 33:19 35:20 36:20 49:22 50:14 interests 12:3,4 intergovernm... 6:21 7:9 Meeting [internet - krewasky] internet 5:20 interpretation 84:20 interpretations 32:8 84:22 interrupt 76:19 77:23 intersecting 77:8 interviewed 37:21 introduce 3:15 9:6 15:15 introduced 16:12 introduction 9:2 invested 10:8 invite 11:23 involved 17:15 19:8 irrelevant 79:20 island 17:20 36:23 issue 36:7 46:17 76:9 88:17 issued 16:6 43:23,24 44:16 65:1 issues 7:25 76:22,22 it'll 31:22 item 15:6 72:2 January 24, 2023 Page 17 j james 16:11 21:18 33:23 35:4,18 42:3 january 1:14 3:4 jazz 16:12 18:14 34:13 35:19,21,23 46:4,6 48:6 58:11 jeanne 14:17 jennifer 2:22 4:19,24 5:13 5:16 6:20 8:1 25:8 jesus 56:11 job 1:25 67:2 joe 24:15 30:8 30:23,25 31:17 63:17 70:7 72:11,12 76:16 76:17,18 78:22 78:25 79:7,24 80:15,15,20 89:25 joe's 79:22 john 2:6 4:16 5:5 7:1,15 9:2 9:6,8,14,21 66:2 69:24 76:15 78:23 79:23 81:21,23 84:22 johnson 26:3 join 5:2 10:7 19:16 59:3 60:6 joined 7:12,13 joining 12:2 17:2 45:17 58:24 joseph 2:20 6:15 joys 82:2 judgment 65:5 jump 33:17 80:2 84:3 june 14:8 k keep 16:4 45:5 60:16 65:13 69:17 75:8,11 75:12 86:23 87:22 kevin 9:5 kind 37:24,25 41:22 42:13,15 43:1,12 46:8 64:24 67:22 68:16,25 73:2 79:20 knew 37:12 42:3,4 know 5:1 8:22 9:8,8,11 12:1,3 12:7,15,19 15:10,12 19:6 19:6 24:25,25 24:25 25:10,11 25:12 26:3 27:4,11,12,13 28:3,9,10,11 28:11,16,17,18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 28:20,20,24 30:8 32:1,4,8 33:16,17,24 34:12,14,24 35:4,7 36:17 38:1,1,18 40:4 40:7,11 41:2 41:22 42:8,10 42:24,25 43:4 43:5,23 44:4,5 46:4,5,9,11,15 46:17,21,24 47:12,13 48:18 49:2 50:6,16 54:6,22 58:15 61:20 62:9 65:4,11 67:15 67:24 68:11 75:14,15,19 78:20 79:6,21 87:25 knowledge 50:5 92:9 93:6 known 15:21 15:23 16:9 55:1 knows 50:3 69:6 korean 43:7 kotlowski 2:5 4:1,3 45:15,16 72:14 76:12 84:1,2,8 90:16 90:16 krewasky 29:6 32:15 37:22 73:22 Meeting [l - love] January 24, 2023 Page 18 legislative 6:21 7:8 l 7:15 lend 52:3 ladies 24:6 length 63:18 90:17 78:15 land 21:19 43:10 73:10,14 lengthy 72:17 lannin 8:6 47:1 lesson 50:14 lettering 30:2 lapel 56:22 73:21 larger 61:2 letters 5:6 larissa 79:5 13:19 14:2 lasted 35:3 letting 12:10 law 15:19 level 47:14 lawrence 2:12 88:12 54:5 57:2 levels 51:24 lay 41:12 layer 77:11,13 liaison 5:13 6:21 31:19 77:14,15 80:17 64:23 layers 77:10 liaison's 57:13 laying 86:6 liaisons 7:13 leader 4:8,17 15:8 18:4,7,10 8:9 9:5 10:5,6 18:23 19:6,11 leading 48:24 20:1 22:4 lean 52:10 25:18 46:12,13 learn 8:25 48:15 49:8 58:15 52:11,22 59:1 leave 44:19 60:14 61:10,24 83:9 64:4,9 72:16 lebel 20:24 72:19 81:17 43:2,23 82:6 88:10 left 18:19 22:19 89:24 90:4 29:9 77:7 liberty 24:20 legal 7:4 24:3 library 7:23 45:3 37:15 legend 27:4 life 8:13 35:4 69:14 52:18 legible 24:23 lifelong 9:22 l light 36:16 54:9 55:6,18 liked 25:24 56:14 57:17 47:17 51:10 60:25 61:15,19 64:19 68:20 62:24 67:5,23 liking 79:1 71:23,24 73:20 limit 37:5 74:9 75:3 76:4 line 52:12 76:24 77:3,6 55:11,22 73:17 77:10,10,19 lines 25:1 80:11 81:1 73:17 76:6 looked 44:3 links 26:5 56:4 67:14,15 list 6:25 67:16,23 68:9 listening 3:13 68:13,17 little 15:18 looking 26:20 24:24 25:14 29:1 47:5 30:15 31:7,9 48:20 49:4 47:18,25 48:21 61:19 67:12 49:4 51:7,15 70:3,3,6 71:22 65:6 66:20 75:23 83:2 88:2 87:4 live 65:13 looks 25:11 living 39:20 46:16 63:21 llc 5:18 68:17,18 69:6 loaded 32:3 lose 31:13 69:9 local 37:15 loss 51:7 locate 36:25 lost 35:4 53:19 long 17:19 28:9 lot 14:24 25:23 36:11,23 37:11 27:12 32:7 40:10 44:9 34:6,16,16 63:7,13 79:3 44:3 46:16 longer 27:14 47:12,24,24 40:1 49:20,20,22 look 3:5 9:14 50:16,17 51:9 11:20 12:6 61:6 67:5,10 14:23 26:7 73:11 74:24 28:21 34:1 79:12 81:2 41:7 42:5,14 love 60:24 46:10,21 47:23 68:23 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting [loved - memorial] loved 35:21 50:1 low 33:20 lower 31:5,6 78:6 lowering 31:2 31:8 m ma'am 3:11 5:24 machine 68:18 made 29:1 39:14 65:21 74:18 83:12 87:20,23 88:17 madison 35:14 magazine 44:13,17,18 magnitude 28:16 main 29:25,25 80:9 maintained 16:8 majority 4:8 10:6 34:5,9 make 24:21 25:2,3 29:22 30:2,14 41:25 42:9 44:20,20 44:24 46:13,15 57:7 58:13 59:8,21 61:11 64:10 66:24,25 68:3 77:5 79:8 80:4 81:16,20 82:4 83:4,16 January 24, 2023 Page 19 86:11,19 88:1 89:11 makes 51:8 61:17,21 71:15 88:1,15 making 68:2 man 39:10 57:18 man's 21:19 43:10 73:10,14 managed 58:7 management 6:2 15:15 82:7 manager 6:7,9 6:11,13,17 manifest 33:12 33:14 manner 78:9 map 67:22 march 35:12 marching 16:10 32:6,19 marine's 42:14 marks 61:23 62:13,16 marne 20:19 20:19 21:9,10 21:21,21 22:2 22:3 23:4,5,20 23:21 marshal 37:6 mary 8:6,6,11 8:13,21,25 47:1,1 63:18 mary's 50:23 mass 50:5 match 29:2 46:14 matte 68:24,25 matter 32:22 maximum 28:20 mccarthy 9:5 mcmullen 7:15 mean 19:1 24:25,25 27:2 30:8,9 33:10 35:1 40:17 41:24 46:18 61:16 67:3 68:18 71:22 76:19 85:24 means 85:9 89:8 meant 48:12 medal 5:11 7:5 7:14 15:8,17 15:20 17:16,18 18:24 21:22 22:22 24:5 29:18 31:2,6 33:9 36:16,16 39:25 42:12 46:16,25 51:4 52:14,25 55:25 56:21 59:9,21 63:7,13,21 64:11,12 66:15 69:12 71:5,8,9 71:22 75:2,15 75:20,21,24 76:1,3,4,9 78:6 79:19 87:24 88:2,13 medallic 4:5 56:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 medals 10:9 14:11 23:7 46:16 47:13 56:24 62:25 63:9 64:25,25 65:5 76:3 88:9 88:11,21 media 5:17,19 meet 41:19 70:5 71:24 meeting 1:12 3:2,5 5:4,7,15 5:24 12:1,7,22 13:1,5,19 14:21,23 22:17 66:16 72:2 90:9 meetings 12:14 14:7,8 82:3 90:10 megan 2:15 6:4 member 3:8 5:5 7:17 8:5,13 8:15,24 12:15 35:6 49:8 members 3:15 5:14 8:3,20 12:19 16:16 17:20 25:7 31:19 36:12 45:2,4,8 48:5 49:23 70:11 72:7 74:3 76:21 85:8 90:6,17 memento 88:15 memorial 54:23 78:10 Meeting [men - musicians] men 19:20 20:3 33:23 37:19 39:2 53:20 menna 2:20 6:15,16 24:15 24:15 30:25 31:1 63:17 70:9 76:18,19 79:9 80:2,19 80:20,24 81:1 81:10 89:25 mental 11:5,6 mention 24:7 26:16 45:24 mentioned 9:22 26:3 31:2 40:24 41:16 47:1 50:2 52:13 53:5 72:15 74:14 merit 63:19 66:20 84:12 messages 63:15 met 14:9 39:19 meuse 20:20 21:10,20 22:2 23:5,20 mexican 32:17 32:23,24 33:2 mic 40:10 80:19 michael 2:21 microphone 3:9 12:11 66:3 microphones 3:14 microsoft 3:10 January 24, 2023 Page 20 middle 29:2 mike 2:7 4:7 5:17 6:17 53:14 57:3,15 59:4 63:16 66:9 72:11 79:25 80:13 81:24 82:1 88:24 90:1 mike's 64:19 72:10 military 7:21 7:23 17:8,8 28:11,13 31:22 34:4 39:6 42:25 47:12,13 50:6 60:10,18 60:21 64:25 70:19,25 71:18 71:24 75:19 88:10 million 40:14 40:15,18 mind 49:14 50:20 64:5 68:20 minority 4:17 8:9 9:4 10:5 mint 5:13,23 7:24 9:18 11:22 16:25 22:17 55:16 56:7 64:15 66:18 90:7,19 mint's 15:14 minutes 5:6 12:20,22 13:4 13:16 14:1 45:5 60:14 75:12 missed 77:6 missing 47:17 mnuchin 8:8 model 20:24 modern 9:13 modification 44:20 71:18 modified 44:18 moment 8:5 10:2 moments 14:3 montford 56:1 month 12:17 14:23 60:12 70:4 months 35:5 monumental 78:5 morale 16:10 moran 2:7 4:7 4:9 53:14,15 80:15,20,22,25 81:9 88:24 89:1,6,13 morning 37:8 53:22 motion 12:21 13:3,12,16,18 14:1 27:4 81:16 82:5,10 82:15 83:6,13 83:13,15,23 84:12,14,16,23 84:25 85:1,10 86:8,11,19 87:8,16 88:20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 89:9,11,16,19 90:12 motions 56:13 72:7 84:3,10 85:3,11 mounted 17:22 mouthful 49:18 move 9:1 15:5 18:21 21:14 22:5,18 72:2 89:13 90:13 moved 13:9,21 87:10 movement 17:17 39:4 movie 39:9 54:23 63:22 77:1 moving 12:18 18:9 19:25 20:6 mud 73:11 multiple 52:15 museum 7:18 7:23 36:20 37:4,10 music 16:12 18:14 23:17 35:23 46:4 48:7 58:3,11 musical 18:13 18:21 21:18 33:12 34:2 65:14,15 musicians 29:13 46:6 62:22 Meeting [mute - obverse] mute 3:9,14 4:21,21 32:14 35:8,8,9 81:22 muted 12:11 60:2 66:3 n n 2:1 3:1 nail 32:9 76:25 77:1 name 3:11,17 5:25 19:18 24:7 27:24,25 28:1 45:14 76:18 82:18 86:2 names 27:23 37:16 nancy 8:9 narrated 60:20 nashville 53:22 national 15:24 19:23 20:5,13 20:16 21:1 26:18,21 27:25 35:24 73:24,25 74:1,7 82:14 86:24 native 14:13 50:14 nature 65:1 nay 85:4 89:19 nays 85:5,8 necessarily 22:19 78:18 necessary 24:20 78:6 January 24, 2023 Page 21 need 7:25 13:3 14:23 26:19 29:21 30:15 44:17 69:7,12 74:6 needed 34:19 54:12 86:5 needing 71:4 negative 57:24 negatively 57:12 neither 92:10 93:6 ness 68:19 never 31:21 68:24 74:17 76:20 new 5:5 7:16 7:19 8:18 15:24 19:23 20:4,13,16 21:1 26:18,21 28:3 33:19 35:6,25,25 36:13 68:10 73:23,25 74:7 74:25 79:15,16 79:21 83:3 86:23 89:9,11 89:16 newspaper 37:14 nice 12:7 46:15 48:20 nicely 53:9 nickname 15:25 night 29:7 30:1 nod 18:12 nominal 81:12 non 53:3 normal 41:3 normally 49:1 north 7:18 notary 92:1,18 note 6:23 7:12 22:4,15 noted 16:25 22:16 notes 73:20 notice 43:18 noting 82:13 notion 59:13 november 5:7 12:22 13:19 16:13 36:21 number 19:4 23:7 24:11 33:21 38:5 43:10,19 47:8 47:9 48:22 51:10,14,20 55:2,3,5,7,21 55:22 56:8,12 56:24,25 57:15 57:19 58:9 68:22 69:14 72:25 74:9 76:25 numbers 82:14 numerous 8:15 numismatic 4:14 8:14,14 8:15,16,17,17 8:18,19 14:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 14:20 15:1 numismatics 4:11 12:4 numismatist 9:11 numismatists 9:9,22 67:1 o o 3:1 oath 9:18 10:3 10:4 objection 13:16 14:1 84:19 objections 13:15,25 obligation 11:3 11:4 observation 53:16 observes 20:7 obverse 15:16 18:6 19:14,14 19:14,25 20:14 20:17,21 21:3 21:5,7,11,14 25:11,12,13,17 25:20,22,24 26:19 30:13 41:13 42:17,18 46:11,15,19,22 47:22 48:14,25 50:23 52:11,16 53:9 55:6 56:25 57:9,15 59:5,11,15,22 59:23 61:9,13 61:25 63:16,19 Meeting [obverse - passed] 64:10,19,21,22 64:23 65:8,24 67:11,17 68:5 70:17,18 71:12 71:14,15,17 72:22 73:1 74:11,13 76:24 78:4 79:14,21 80:8,16,23 82:13,13,16 83:3,9 85:23 85:25 87:1 obverses 19:19 48:19 52:10,21 59:23 70:18 obviously 48:6 57:19 73:9 odd 28:15 offensive 20:20 20:20 21:10,10 22:2,2 23:5,6 23:20,21 offer 24:7 77:24 80:1 82:5 offering 78:20 office 6:1 7:8 10:3 11:14,16 15:14 80:2,21 officer 92:2 officers 33:21 33:22 38:11 official 16:4 officially 63:12 oh 54:3,8 70:9 83:9 85:17 87:19 January 24, 2023 Page 22 okay 4:25 37:23 51:20 56:4 78:24 80:22 81:9,19 81:23 82:9 83:1,2,12 84:23 85:18,22 86:18,19 87:6 88:22 89:13 91:2 old 23:13 37:14 74:3 olive 21:25 once 12:15 40:4 62:22 85:13 ones 30:18 32:5 41:20 61:12 62:25 69:20 70:20 76:23 onward 50:8 opened 54:2 openness 47:21 47:21 opined 61:13 opportunity 14:15 17:9,25 38:3 45:12 70:13 oppose 89:19 opposed 26:1 78:4 85:3 option 25:20 31:16 order 3:2 9:1 12:18 14:2 30:10 72:10 77:20 90:5 organized 15:24 original 27:24 46:14,22,23 49:18 72:24 originally 15:24 outcome 92:14 93:11 outgoing 8:5 outs 48:17 outstanding 8:4 15:22 59:19 66:12 overall 29:14 66:8 overestimated 51:23 overlap 31:8 overlapping 62:20 overlaps 31:6,9 31:9 overseas 38:22 40:15 oversweep 39:12 overtop 27:18 overview 28:10 37:24 40:19 own 54:16 77:23 owned 9:23 p p 2:1,1 3:1 p.m. 1:15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 pacific 8:18 paid 31:1 pair 49:16 pam 2:17 6:9 90:20 pancake 78:3 pantheon 63:12 paper 55:7 parade 35:13 58:5 part 12:5,10 33:14 34:4,13 35:13,15 37:10 47:7 53:18 54:20 62:22 63:23 67:24 86:8,11 participation 49:25 60:17,20 60:25 61:3 particular 18:15 44:7 51:4 63:6 66:11 67:25 72:21 73:2 74:15 76:25 particularly 14:6 41:16 59:18 62:18 67:24 70:22,24 72:4 74:20 parties 92:11 92:13 93:7,10 pass 56:23 passage 21:18 passed 50:22 84:16 Meeting [passes - praise] passes 84:13 89:20 passing 17:23 past 65:1 patch 23:3 path 11:22 patriot 61:21 patriots 26:5 patrol 21:19 paul 5:18 pause 3:4 paying 62:20 pbs 60:19 peace 21:25 pelosi 8:10 people 12:2,3 27:13 34:12 37:5,9,16 38:14 39:10 40:1,2,4 48:9 49:1,5 54:3,8 54:24 55:19 56:5 60:17 61:3 62:5 67:5 68:13,15,24 peoples 48:10 percent 40:13 40:16,19 period 56:7 83:17 pershing 54:14 54:17 person 14:8,14 54:22 61:16,18 61:18,19,20,21 70:5 personal 53:16 January 24, 2023 Page 23 personally 26:13 42:13,16 61:20 65:13 perspective 25:19 47:14 52:12 72:24 persuade 30:18 46:2 48:3 persuaded 30:19 46:1 58:3 70:20 persuasive 47:7 peter 2:11 4:13 13:6,7,8,21 24:9,15 43:15 53:5 58:20 83:25 84:24 87:11,12 ph 26:5 33:16 36:23 phone 3:9 4:21 5:20 photo 26:4 photographs 26:14 73:14 photoshop 24:17 phrase 47:3 80:23 physical 56:19 pick 46:12 picked 27:6 33:18 picture 33:14 68:10 pictured 26:8 piece 75:13 piecemeal 54:16 pieces 53:19 79:5 pippin 34:24 34:24 piqued 60:22 place 63:12 77:23 placed 22:19 placement 22:6 planted 39:2 played 35:25 48:6 playing 35:23 35:23 please 3:10,16 5:24,24 10:10 22:15 24:6 41:2 45:5 51:19 62:6,15 69:17 72:12 85:21 88:6 90:18 pleased 12:5 76:8 pleasure 45:20 pocket 53:8 56:23 pockets 53:11 point 27:21 31:1,3 39:13 40:3 56:1,17 67:17 68:1 73:14 74:8 75:2 76:13 79:22 82:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 84:5,11 87:23 89:23 pointed 23:18 82:15,22,23 pointing 24:2 points 29:25 63:19 67:12,12 74:16,18 policy 16:4 political 45:22 pomp 34:3 pooped 66:13 popular 34:16 portfolio 17:1 18:2,17 19:13 49:21 54:2 60:11 portfolios 14:10 40:25 portion 53:4 portrait 20:14 20:17 portraits 77:5 79:1 ports 54:11 pose 31:19 position 9:4 10:4 18:18 30:2 possible 28:19 43:19 poster 63:22 77:2 powell's 60:19 powerful 50:24 59:15 78:14 praise 41:2 Meeting [pre - r4] pre 38:7 preface 82:12 prefer 30:17 52:14 preference 18:7,10 20:1 46:24 49:18 59:11 84:17 preferences 18:4 19:10 46:14 64:10 75:7 preferred 22:4 52:3,10,22 64:1 86:10 preferring 18:20 prejudice 16:24 prepared 93:3 prepares 19:16 present 3:16,19 3:22,25 4:3,6,9 4:12,15,18 5:25 6:3,6,8,10 6:12,14,16,19 6:23 7:2,6,10 12:25 13:5 15:16 31:16 78:13 presented 73:8 75:15 78:9 president 7:22 17:24 press 5:14 prestigious 10:8 January 24, 2023 Page 24 presumably 53:6 pretty 73:11 87:24 previous 53:2 pride 40:5 prior 92:4 pritzker 7:23 private 88:16 88:17 pro 24:18 probably 9:11 14:22 29:14 59:6 61:15 71:1,17,20 75:19 problem 53:20 79:6 problems 43:20 proceed 82:10 83:15 85:21 88:6 proceeding 93:4 proceedings 5:12 92:3,4,5,8 93:5 process 51:16 production 24:14 products 14:12 professional 9:9 professor 7:15 profile 46:20 49:3 program 3:10 15:15,19 24:4 41:6 45:9,11 60:23 85:12 89:22 programs 14:10 36:4 prominent 19:21 prominently 53:24 prompt 71:23 proof 68:24,25 protruding 44:13,18 proud 28:23 prove 39:5 public 3:13,18 3:24 5:4,15 11:23 14:19 15:4,19 42:1 90:9 92:1,18 pun 47:3 purchased 88:15 purple 36:22 purpose 11:7,8 pushing 56:18 put 17:9 29:12 30:3,4 39:23 55:24 69:9,16 79:16,20 86:21 86:23 putting 48:7 49:14 65:15 puzzling 75:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 q qualified 4:2,4 4:10,14 14:19 92:7 quality 78:8 quarters 80:8 question 24:10 24:10 25:10 26:25 32:3 33:11 36:5 43:16,20 44:22 53:5 54:5 63:7 72:18 75:13,18 80:15 82:22,23 82:24 86:21 89:1 questions 15:10,11 17:11 24:3,8 25:6 28:5 31:18 32:4 36:5 45:2 45:8,12 49:24 81:20 84:24 89:16,22 quick 70:8 quickly 37:4 70:16 89:9 quite 12:2,2,7 44:22 45:23 46:3 47:21 56:20 66:23 quorum 5:3 r r 2:1 3:1 29:6 r3 75:17 87:20 r4 74:19,23 75:13,23,24 Meeting [races - related] races 48:12 racial 16:23 38:18 rained 73:11 raised 75:1 raising 10:11 rank 42:23 rarely 42:3 raskin 8:7 rate 75:6,8 rather 5:20 59:13 68:14 71:23 78:6 rattler 21:23 23:3 42:13 rattlers 15:25 19:5,22 22:13 22:24 23:12,19 23:22,23 29:15 30:4 47:17 82:19 86:2 88:3 rattlesnake 16:1 22:10 29:23 read 33:1 35:20 38:19 readable 24:21 25:2 readings 44:3 ready 30:11 real 36:16 39:8 50:19 57:16 58:14 62:3 67:18 realistic 78:1 realization 77:4 January 24, 2023 Page 25 realizes 58:16 really 12:7 26:6 27:13 31:4 33:25 34:2 35:2,18 37:18 38:20 39:7,9,15 42:1 42:8 43:25 44:6 47:4,10 47:15,16 48:18 48:25 49:13 50:4,19,21 52:5 53:4 54:7 54:8,8 55:1 57:3,12 58:1,1 59:18 60:24 62:6,6,12,19 64:18,18,21 65:1,5,8 66:15 68:16 70:20 72:17 75:5,5 79:4 81:13 reappointed 8:8 reappointment 45:19 reason 34:11 36:4 56:18 60:24 64:13 69:5 71:13 73:22,22 reasoned 57:14 reasons 25:25 27:22 44:2 receive 66:13 received 12:19 16:6 38:23 receiving 14:25 recognition 15:22 37:2 recognize 14:3 14:6 26:1 55:19 58:10 63:14 76:16 recognized 45:10 56:21 63:12 recognizing 35:17 72:12 recommend 27:17 28:2 77:4 84:4 recommenda... 8:9 10:5 18:8 18:11 19:11 20:1 22:15 83:8 recommenda... 18:5 46:13 61:24 recommended 3:20 4:7,16 9:4 14:16 18:17,21 19:2 29:18 89:4 recommends 82:16 85:23,24 85:24 record 5:22 7:12 13:2 41:8 87:7 92:9 93:5 recorded 92:6 recording 92:8 93:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 recruit 33:18 33:25 recruited 33:23 recruiting 35:3 red 38:17 reduced 92:6 reese 16:11 21:19 33:23 35:4 42:3 refer 68:11 74:2 reference 18:16 referring 27:20 reflect 13:2 reflected 5:8 14:4 reflecting 72:12 regard 52:10 regarding 42:17 regiment 15:21 16:3,15 19:18 19:21,24 20:3 20:5,13,16,25 21:13 22:10,13 23:8,10,14 26:12,23 27:15 27:21 34:7 57:20,25 58:1 86:22 regiments 38:10 40:12,12 region 40:4 register 90:11 related 92:10 93:7 Meeting [relative - right] relative 40:7 92:12 93:9 relief 77:10,11 77:13,14,15 78:6,8,19 80:17,18 81:5 relinquish 30:7 remainder 91:1 remaining 81:21 remember 24:6 32:16 34:17 47:15 53:16 71:6 72:23 90:18 remind 3:8,12 45:4 reminded 68:25 reminds 68:10 remotely 5:14 remove 74:11 83:8 removed 82:18 82:19 86:2,3 removing 19:5 88:19 repeat 26:20 80:20 repeating 10:11 repetitive 82:19 report 5:9 14:5 15:3 reported 1:23 reporter 45:13 January 24, 2023 Page 26 reports 15:1 represent 19:17 21:25 62:4 representation 24:13 63:9 represented 14:18 representing 3:17,23 21:24 23:4,7,16 50:21,24 59:14 represents 22:8 51:25 55:10 57:20 required 88:8 90:18 research 17:21 44:24 61:6 researching 40:1 reservation 11:5 48:3,4 reservations 11:6 respect 70:17 70:22 71:2,16 85:11 89:22 respond 3:16 rest 54:25 retired 7:20 return 38:2 returned 14:7 35:12 reveal 41:9 reverse 15:16 18:9,11,18 19:9 21:15,16 21:22 22:3,8 22:25 23:9,15 24:11 26:19,23 27:2,3 29:4 30:13 44:9,10 44:19 46:10,11 46:15,22,23 47:22,23 51:18 51:20 53:9 56:10,25 57:9 59:5,11,19,23 61:10 62:15,16 63:25 64:1,1 64:14 65:11 68:22 70:22,24 71:1,2,16,18 74:6 79:16,17 80:4,9,10 82:17 83:8 86:1,25 88:2 reversed 27:17 29:8 87:8 reverses 18:9 20:6 22:21 23:11,22 47:6 52:22 57:23 59:16,22 62:14 71:2 80:6,7 review 5:9 15:6 reviewing 14:10 36:4 41:1 60:11 revised 12:20 12:21 revision 12:22 13:4 revolution 38:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 rhodian 79:5 rhythm 41:3 ribbon 18:25 29:20,24 30:4 31:11,12 56:15 71:5,7 74:22 75:20,22,24,25 76:1,3,3,5 82:19 86:3 rich 49:21 72:4 richard 7:15 17:10,14 25:21 28:2 32:1,12 32:14 33:16,17 35:7,8 36:11 42:8 73:4 79:15 86:20 richard's 27:21 40:3 riders 32:23 rifle 20:18,24 22:12 23:3,15 27:15,18 29:12 30:3 41:17,23 43:3,23 44:11 48:6,8 49:19 62:20 64:6 67:3 69:6 71:21 73:7 83:16,16,18 86:4,6 rifles 16:7 43:5 69:7 right 10:11 22:20 25:5 32:20 33:8 35:10 38:12,14 39:18 44:21,25 Meeting [right - seem] 56:16 59:17 60:3,5 62:4 71:8 76:25 80:3 81:2,18 82:2 85:18 rightful 63:11 rights 39:3 robert 14:19 robin 2:8,24 4:4 7:4 50:11 50:12 52:7 59:4 67:21 robust 78:9 roger 2:16 6:7 rough 32:23 round 44:12,15 44:17 rounds 44:12 royal 8:16 running 51:2 80:21 russell 2:18 6:11 s s 2:1 3:1 sacrifice 16:22 sailor 42:14 saint 54:22 salmon 2:8 4:4 4:6 50:12,12 51:20 salter 7:20 17:2 17:3,6 25:18 26:3 27:8 28:8 31:25 32:3,14 32:18,21 33:4 33:8,15 35:22 January 24, 2023 Page 27 37:22,23 41:21 42:24 43:24 44:21 45:22 47:7 48:2 50:2 63:11 75:9,11 82:22,25,25 83:2,9 86:14 86:15,17,18 87:3,3 89:25 salter's 64:6 sam 2:4 3:23 12:24 13:3,5 13:22 57:4 san 8:17 satisfies 63:17 82:21 saturday 53:22 saunders 2:6 4:16,18,20,25 5:6,19 9:2,7,16 9:18,21 10:2 10:10,13,15,18 10:22,25 11:2 11:4,6,8,10,12 11:16,18,25 12:14 45:17 58:23 60:7 66:2,4,5,7 70:1 78:24 79:12 save 30:10,15 saw 37:15 54:8 70:7 73:8 saxophone 22:12 23:3 27:18 30:3 35:2 41:17,23 48:4,8 49:19 64:2,2,7 69:4,6 69:8,10,11,17 86:7,10 saying 40:11 71:11 74:17 81:10 82:12 90:22 says 63:13 scale 24:20 77:5 scarinci 2:9 8:2 25:10 27:1 28:6 30:7 64:18 85:6 scene 43:4,8 scholars 44:4 schorn 7:1,2,2 7:3 84:21,22 score 21:18 84:13,18 90:18 scored 84:5,9 scoresheets 84:14 screaming 54:7 screen 87:4 scuffle 35:5 sculptor 55:13 sculptural 76:22 78:9 sculpturally 78:12,14,17 80:11 sculpture 4:5 77:4 78:16 seats 90:19,21 secessionville 50:15 second 3:4 13:11,12,22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 14:22 29:5 55:6 58:24 60:8 61:5 66:16 70:8 76:15,20 77:13 81:20 83:13,24 83:25 84:24 87:11,12 89:9 89:14 90:15 seconded 89:15 secretary 5:7 8:7,8 9:3 13:19 18:17 22:5 85:25 section 81:2,4,5 see 7:13 8:2 10:11 18:6,9 18:11,25 29:1 30:18 37:9 42:10,11,15 43:8,10,12 46:2 47:12,15 48:22 52:1,19 53:10 56:11 57:11 63:14,21 68:12 69:12,18 70:4,23 71:3 71:24 72:9,9,9 72:16 76:5 78:23 81:21 82:5 84:9,12 88:11 seeds 39:2 seeing 78:15 84:25 seem 12:8 43:19 65:3,6 79:17 Meeting [seems - soldiers] seems 24:11 42:20 44:11 49:16 65:7 seen 20:9 55:15 56:7,24 88:20 select 10:7 selected 41:20 selection 65:21 selections 17:12 semiquincent... 15:2 senate 4:7 senior 5:18 6:4 6:7 7:7 sense 26:7,12 49:12 51:9 71:15 86:9 separate 34:7 38:18 separated 55:12 sergeant 53:24 serve 61:17 served 8:6,11 8:12 16:14 31:22 39:22 40:13,14,15,17 59:23 60:9 61:5 62:24 serves 7:22 service 15:22 28:16 62:23 64:3,8 serving 28:23 38:7 set 17:22 90:9 January 24, 2023 Page 28 seven 85:9 several 14:15 17:18 22:16 25:24,25 32:8 90:11 share 9:11 15:3 18:2 31:20 80:1 shared 22:17 36:12 shied 42:16 44:2 shifted 89:4 shifting 19:1 ship 35:23 shipped 54:13 shondra 1:23 92:2,17 shooting 68:18 shore 7:18 short 60:16 shot 34:23 shout 48:16,19 48:21 52:5 61:11 show 28:19 43:3 62:10 64:2 67:17 68:1 69:13 73:14 showed 53:20 54:23 66:11 showing 28:1 42:10 51:10 53:8 74:21 shown 29:18 29:19 shows 9:23 62:19 68:7 shrink 31:7,13 56:14 69:13 shrinking 31:4 side 27:24 28:3 49:3 50:16 77:7 signature 92:16 93:13 signed 5:14 17:24 significance 29:11 33:9 50:17 51:12,22 71:10 significant 22:9 27:11 39:15 55:1,3 signify 90:21 silhouetted 55:14 77:16 silhouettes 77:7 similar 64:24 simply 24:16 35:20 sincerely 61:16 single 50:24 51:9,10 57:8 sir 3:11 5:16,19 5:24 66:3 76:14 81:8 83:11 88:25 sit 17:11 sitting 74:17 situation 48:23 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 six 14:12 51:14 62:16 67:3 size 53:24 88:14 sketch 55:24 sketchbook 24:18 skills 92:9 93:6 slaughterer 54:16 slight 83:18 slightly 24:20 small 17:19 53:4 71:7 smaller 29:23 smithsonian 38:2 39:18 snake 31:9 societies 8:16 society 8:15,16 8:17,18,18 soil 32:7 sold 9:23 soldier 28:21 28:22 29:2 34:25 39:6 42:14 43:5 48:20 49:10 50:24 51:11,14 52:17,19 soldier's 47:11 62:11 77:18,19 soldiers 25:25 26:8 29:13 32:22,23 33:19 34:5,9,20 36:8 38:15 41:14,18 42:4,20,23 Meeting [soldiers - suggest] 43:9 48:22 50:18 51:2,11 52:13 53:7,11 55:15,22 56:3 58:6,14,18 62:21 72:25 73:24 74:2 solemnly 10:12 10:13 solid 46:15,24 64:11 sollman 14:18 solo 52:17 solution 54:19 54:20 solved 79:10 somebody 54:5 55:7,18 75:1,3 songs 35:25 sophie 36:23 sorry 9:7 10:6 20:6 25:8 42:19 60:2 64:23 80:12,19 84:2 85:17 86:24 87:19 sort 24:12 36:7 41:11,14,19 42:17,18 62:2 70:18 73:17 sorts 56:13 57:6 south 50:14 space 77:15 spanish 32:24 33:3,4 speak 3:12 26:12 30:15,18 January 24, 2023 Page 29 speaker 3:21 10:7 14:17 91:2,3,4,5,6 speakers 13:14 13:24 53:2 speaking 4:20 31:1 45:14 84:22 special 12:9 60:19 specialist 6:5 7:8 specifically 4:1 4:4,10,13 9:21 14:19 spell 55:17 spend 14:3 25:23 34:21 spite 16:4 spoke 27:8 spoken 15:5 45:9 square 35:14 staff 5:23 90:7 stafford 2:14 6:1,3 15:14,18 18:1 25:16 82:7 89:3 stage 68:13 stake 29:16 stakeholder 80:7 stakeholders 70:12,14,23 71:14 80:10 stand 59:21 64:22 65:2,8 76:8 86:12 standing 52:20 standout 57:16 standpoint 71:21 stands 20:9,10 82:17 star 23:2,19 89:1 stars 19:4 start 37:25 40:1 43:2 46:9 50:5 57:15 started 37:14 73:24 starting 14:22 19:14 90:10 starts 37:24 state 45:14 states 10:17,19 14:17 64:15 stay 34:5,10 60:13 stepped 35:22 stepping 68:13 stevens 14:17 stick 32:5 stiff 52:18 stiffness 52:20 stitching 24:22 stock 44:13 stop 78:20 stories 31:23 34:15 story 16:20 37:11,17 strangely 77:12 strap 29:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 streamers 23:4 streamline 30:11 street 35:14 striking 28:25 59:18 61:15 71:13 73:6 74:14,20 stripes 76:6 strong 49:15 55:16 59:7 69:3 strongly 18:12 19:7 48:25 56:8 65:16 67:17 68:5 struck 26:6,13 68:17 73:16 74:8 structure 80:10 stuck 58:6 student 53:17 71:23 studied 58:16 study 67:2 69:22 studying 28:14 stuff 39:22 80:8 81:3 stunning 64:21 stunningly 59:9 style 63:20 substitute 65:5 successfully 79:10 80:5 suggest 26:11 45:3 68:1 Meeting [suggested - thank] suggested 19:4 22:16 29:19 30:14 suggestion 27:3 74:22 suggestions 89:21 sullivan 2:15 6:4,6 sum 30:1 summary 5:7 summer 38:17 38:19 superb 57:23 supplies 54:11 support 10:14 10:15 11:22 16:3 30:13,17 52:4 53:1 57:22 59:5 65:17,22 69:10 70:17 supporting 30:12 80:7,9 suppress 39:24 suppressed 40:1 sure 25:21 31:12 32:2 36:13 37:5 41:24,25 42:9 43:13,21 44:16 44:23,25 47:18 55:23 69:1 71:4 72:14 81:20 82:4 83:4,16 86:19 January 24, 2023 Page 30 suspension 69:13 swayed 75:16 swear 10:12,13 swearing 5:5 9:2 sweep 39:8 swiss 8:16 switch 30:2 switching 22:6 sworn 92:5 symbol 16:1 51:25 symbolic 69:5 73:9 symbolism 51:22 65:15 symbolize 50:25 system 4:22 t table 47:4 tabletop 47:3 48:24 50:23 55:5 56:6 63:18 take 3:4 8:5 11:3,4 24:16 30:22 31:25 38:21 41:3 46:10 47:22 53:15 55:18 58:2 63:7,11 74:5 75:13 79:15 83:5 90:20 taken 36:11 74:17 92:3,11 93:8 takes 51:15 talk 30:12 40:10 48:15 67:8 talked 29:7 42:8 73:22 talking 3:10 27:19 32:18,24 34:1 43:2 46:21 47:24 62:2,7 73:7 78:25 85:18 86:21 talks 42:6 tate 2:25 7:7,10 taught 9:24 teach 45:23 teaching 28:15 team 60:7 82:6 82:8 90:1,3 teams 3:10 technical 24:3 24:10 45:3 53:5 75:13,18 76:7 technically 69:1 86:10 technician 42:25 tell 15:8 26:8 39:1 55:25 71:6 tenor 22:12 term 14:21,22 31:20 32:16 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 33:2 58:25 60:8 terminology 88:7 terms 29:14 59:16 67:11 69:12 73:21 77:3 81:12 terrain 43:11 terrible 58:17 58:17 terrific 48:18 terry 2:24 7:4,6 test 47:3 48:24 50:23 55:5 63:18,18 78:14 78:15 testifying 92:5 tetradrachms 79:6 text 27:19 29:15 78:5,7 78:19 81:6 texts 81:11 texture 24:16 24:19 53:5,6 textured 24:12 textures 68:4 texturing 24:14 thank 4:23 5:22 8:4 9:16 9:20,25 11:25 12:9 13:3 15:18 18:1 24:1 25:5 26:24 28:6 29:5 30:21,25 31:17 40:23 Meeting [thank - topology] 43:15 45:1,16 50:8,10,12,13 52:6,7 53:11 53:13,15 57:3 57:5 58:19,20 58:21,25 59:24 59:25 60:3 63:1,2,4,5,16 64:14,15,17 66:1 69:23,24 70:1,10 72:5 72:14 76:10,12 76:14,18 78:21 78:22 79:23 81:14,15,23 82:8,11 86:13 87:6 88:22,23 89:24,25 90:2 90:6 91:3,4,6 thanking 72:3 thanks 60:5 62:23 63:10,10 64:4 70:1 86:19 theaters 60:21 theirs 65:6 themed 47:13 88:10 themes 15:1 thing 24:22,24 26:6,9,16 28:9 33:20,24 36:19 37:21 50:1 56:14 58:16 66:10,16 67:14 69:9 73:16 76:7 78:19 79:2,13 84:14 January 24, 2023 Page 31 86:14,15 things 14:25 17:23 28:11,25 42:7,25 43:25 47:13 57:7 67:5,6,7 68:1 69:22,23 73:6 74:8 77:25 78:25 79:15 think 8:20 14:5 17:10,17 25:11 26:6,9,10,16 26:19,20 27:5 28:4 29:24,25 30:17 31:12,18 32:8,14 33:6 35:8 36:10,19 37:10 38:10,15 41:21 42:11 43:24 44:13,17 44:21 45:25 46:8,23 47:6 48:8,12,14,19 49:6,6,16 50:7 50:24 51:3,23 51:25 53:8 56:22 57:7,9 57:13,25 58:9 59:4,6,7,17,17 59:18,19,20,22 60:23 61:2,7 62:1,8,18 63:23 64:7,9 64:10,18 65:14 65:24,24 66:14 66:21 67:4,16 68:22 69:9,15 69:19,21 70:13 73:5,5,9 74:5 74:10,11,13,16 74:18,19,22,23 75:1,1,5,6 76:23 77:2 78:12,13 79:1 79:10,22 80:9 81:1,2,16 82:4 82:21 86:6,14 90:20 thinking 41:15 48:9 51:8 72:24 third 42:22 77:14 thought 29:9 29:10,14 34:19 35:16 37:17 47:9 49:3 51:16 65:3,20 67:14,22 73:6 73:18,23 74:19 79:20 thoughtful 30:9 thoughts 72:16 72:19 73:3 thousand 15:10 three 14:11 17:20 20:2 21:6 23:4 25:4 26:11 28:20,25 41:18 42:5,10 42:16 44:11 46:19 47:21 53:11 55:22 56:3 58:2 67:3 72:25 73:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 77:21 79:17 85:8 88:14 thrill 58:14 thrilled 58:18 tie 32:10 ties 53:9 time 3:12 8:11 17:4 19:3 25:23 30:11,15 35:22 38:6 41:4,6 63:13 66:14 71:1,20 72:8 73:9 75:21,22 79:3 81:18 89:5 times 9:13 14:9 30:24 42:2 title 87:25 titled 26:5 today 5:24 17:2 18:8 34:7,19 36:14,18 38:5 39:20 40:20 79:13 90:5,7 today's 5:4 together 12:17 17:10 37:22 tom 14:16 took 54:5 top 18:3 21:17 21:20 22:17 27:5 29:13 30:2 31:11 69:4,11,16,17 82:20 86:6,10 topology 81:6 81:12,13 Meeting [total - uniform] total 14:9 23:7 touch 31:7 touches 31:9 43:17 tours 34:9 towards 17:17 52:10 78:7 town 17:19,21 towns 73:13 traditional 53:3 64:11 88:10 training 16:6 54:10 transcriber 93:1 transcript 93:3 93:4 transcriptionist 92:7 transitioned 44:1 translate 55:24 transparency 15:9 transported 16:2 travel 13:1 treasury 85:25 treated 54:9 treatment 38:23 trench 20:10 21:8 43:6 51:11 68:8,13 68:14,15 trenches 21:4 27:14 33:13 January 24, 2023 Page 32 34:6,10,21 42:10 54:17 58:6 62:9,10 tribute 58:13 tried 79:3 trombone 23:15 troops 16:5 54:14 trouble 47:25 truck 54:12 true 10:24,25 42:1 78:10 92:8 93:4 trumpet 62:20 trustees 7:17 truth 57:8 try 26:9 37:23 45:5 46:1 60:16 81:10 trying 47:25 73:20 tucker 2:10 4:10,12 63:3,4 81:15,16 82:11 82:12,21 83:7 83:7,11,21 85:15,20,20,23 86:8 87:10,10 88:4,4,7,25 89:8,14 tuesday 1:14 3:3 turn 9:18 15:13 30:23 36:6 50:11 52:7 53:13 55:5 57:4 58:20,22 59:25 63:2 64:17 66:1 79:22 81:14 90:19,20 turning 41:11 tuskegee 37:20 two 17:1,12 18:16 20:21 21:11 25:18 26:10 27:10 28:5 30:10 36:14 41:12 42:21 43:5 44:4 48:11,11 53:2,22 58:2,8 59:7 68:1,2 73:6,17 76:8 78:25 84:4 90:9 type 42:21 48:23 typewriting 92:6 typically 41:3 77:4 u u.s. 7:20 10:8 16:4 18:5 19:11,23 20:5 20:12,15,25 21:13 22:12,23 23:10,13 26:18 26:22 27:20 33:10 45:22 46:7 82:14 88:18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 ultimately 77:17 umbrella 67:15 uncle 39:21 61:19 unconsciona... 16:18 under 14:21 16:5,11 30:22 54:18 76:5 underestimated 51:23 underneath 69:10 underscoring 51:12 understand 18:22 24:12 41:1 57:21 59:12 64:24 71:10,13 74:13 84:16 87:6 understanding 84:15 understood 80:13 83:4 unfortunately 35:4 unidentified 91:2,3,4,5,6 unidetified 13:14,24 uniform 20:8 20:18,23 22:22 31:21 32:6 33:10 38:7 47:11 53:4,6 53:10 71:7 Meeting [uniformed - 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