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Page 1 MEETING OF UNITED STATES COINAGE ADVISORY COMMITTEE Tuesday, January 17, 2017 1:00 p.m. United States Mint 801 9th Street NW Washington, D.C. 20220 (202) 354-7371 Reported by: Samuel Honig Capital Reporting Company Page 2 A P P E A R A N C E Greg Weinman April Stafford Mary Lannin Robert Hoge Erik Jansen Michael Moran Steve Roach Jeanne Stevens-Sollman Dennis Tucker Thomas Uram Herman Viola Jim Adams Mike Unser Page 3 C O N T E N T S Mary Lannin April Stafford Jim Adams 1, 6, 31 8, 14 11, 15, 33 Robert Hoge 13, 16 Jeanne Stevens-Sollman 16 Mike Moran 18 Dennis Tucker 20 Tom Uram 23, 30 Herman Viola 25, 35 Erik Jansen 26, 34 Page 4 P R O C E E D I N G S MS. LANNIN: I call to order this meeting of the United States Coinage Advisory Committee for Tuesday, January 17, 2017. If the members of the committee could announce themselves, I can check them off the list. Mike, I heard you, so you are here. MR. MORAN: MR. WEINMAN: Yep, I'm here. Actually, if you wouldn't mind, because this is being transcribed by telephone, if you could say your full name when you're identified, at least for this first time. MS. LANNIN: MR. VIOLA: MS. LANNIN: MR. VIOLA: Certainly, Greg. Herman Viola. Good morning, Herman. Good morning. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: MS. LANNIN: Jeanne Stevens-Sollman. Good morning, Jeanne. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Good morning, Mary. MR. TUCKER: Dennis Tucker. MS. LANNIN: Good morning, Dennis. MR. TUCKER: Good morning. Page 5 MR. URAM: Thomas Uram. MS. LANNIN: MR. URAM: Morning, Tom. Morning. MS. LANNIN: MR. HOGE: Marry Lannin is here. Robert Hoge is here. MS. LANNIN: Robert Hoge is here. MS. STAFFORD: MR. WEINMAN: MS. LANNIN: MR. ADAMS: MS. LANNIN: We have a quorum. Uh-hum. Do we have anyone else? Hi. On the telephone, Jim Adams. Jim Adams. And your affiliation, Jim? MR. ADAMS: Senior historian at the National Museum of the American Indian. MS. LANNIN: Thank you. And do we have members of the press on the phone? MR. UNSER: MS. LANNIN: Mike Unser from CoinNews. Good morning, Mike. Happy New Year. Is there anyone else? I just heard a click. Has Erik called in or Heidi? MR. HOGE: Mary, this is Robert. When I Page 6 called in, I was told there were 16 parties on the line. MS. LANNIN: MR. HOGE: Sixteen? Yeah. MS. LANNIN: Okay. Heidi, are you there? Erik, are you there? Okay. Apparently not. Let's keep going. During this session, the committee will consider the following items: The discussion of the letter and minutes of the previous meeting as well as the review and discussion of design concepts for the 2019 and 2020 Native American One Dollar Coin Program. So we have Mike here from the Mint staff. Is there anything that we need -- is there anything that we need to talk about? MR. WEINMAN: Weinman. Only that -- this is Greg I will just, once again, remind you that because this is being transcribed, before anybody speaks, please identify yourself for the record. We'll be keeping an ear out so that if we hear somebody's voice and they haven't identified, Page 7 we'll give you a friendly reminder. MS. STAFFORD: And if you don't mind muting your telephones while you are not speaking, we would very much appreciate it. MS. LANNIN: MR. MORAN: Okay. And that was April Stafford who said that? MS. STAFFORD: MS. LANNIN: MR. MORAN: MS. LANNIN: All right. Yes, sir. Gotcha. There's only one smart ass around. Yes, Michael. The first item in our agenda is a discussion of the letter to the secretary and the minutes from our previous meeting. comments on either documents? Are there any Okay. Hearing no further discussion, I move to approve the minutes and the letter to the secretary. Is there a second? MR. HOGE: MS. LANNIN: Robert. Second. This is Robert. Robert seconds. Thank you, All those in favor, please signify by saying "aye." Page 8 ALL SPEAKERS: MS. LANNIN: Aye. Those opposed, say "nay." Okay. The ayes appear to have it, and the motion that is reached is unanimous. The next order of business is the review and discussion of the design concepts for the 2019 and 2020 Native American One Dollar Coin Program. We now turn to April Stafford, narrator of the Mint's design management team, to present the design concepts for the 2019 and 2020 Native American One Dollar Coin Program. MS. STAFFORD: April. Thank you, Madam Chair. It is Public Law 110-82 that requires the Secretary of the Treasury to mint and issue $1 coins in honor of Native Americans and the important contributions made by Indian tribes and individual Native Americans to the development in history of the United States. The Act mandates a reverse design for these coins with an image emblematic of one important Native American or Native American contribution each year. Of course, the obverse, as has been with the program, will retain the Page 9 image of Sacajawea and her infant son. The National Museum of the American Indian identified themes, which were then reviewed and endorsed by the following: The Committee on Indian Affairs of the Senate, the Congressional Native American Caucus of the House of Representatives, and the National Congress of American Indians. Today we will discuss the themes for the 2019 and 2020 Native American dollar coins. Input from this discussion will then be provided to our artists and give them a direction and further considerations as they begin designing for this program. So we'll start with theme one, which is for the 2019 dollar coin. The theme is "American Indians in the Space Program." American Indians have been on the modern frontier of spaceflight since the beginning of NASA. American Indians' service includes achievements such as the three spacewalks from the International Space Station by John Herrington of the Chickasaw Nation and dates Page 10 back to the work of Mary Golda Ross. She's considered the first female American Indian engineer and helped develop the spacecraft for the Gemini and Apollo space programs. I should note that 2019 will mark the 50th anniversary of the Apollo 11 landing on the lunar surface. The second theme for discussion today is for the 2020 Native American dollar coin. The theme is "Elizabeth Peratrovich and Alaska's AntiDiscrimination Law." The first anti- discrimination law in the United States prohibiting discrimination in access to public accommodations was passed in the Alaskan Territorial Government in 1945. Elizabeth Peratrovich of the Tlingit Nation, through her advocacy for Alaskan natives and with her husband, Roy, gave an impassioned speech in the Alaskan Senate in support of the law. She's widely credited with getting it passed. I'll also note here that it is 2020 that marks the 75th anniversary of Elizabeth Peratrovich's famous testimony in support of our nation's first anti- Page 11 discrimination law. As we heard earlier, joining us today is Jim Adams. He is senior historian at the National Museum of the American Indian. Mr. Adams, is there any additional information related to these themes that you would like to share with our committee or you would like our artists to consider? MR. ADAMS: Well, on the space theme, one of the names to add to the list is Jerry Elliott, who is Osage and Comanche and was the -- I'm not sure the exact terminology -- the retrofit engineer for the Apollo 13 re-entry and thought of the trajectory which brought that spacecraft back and received a Presidential Medal of Freedom for that service. And on the 2020 theme of the -- for Peratrovich and the antidiscrimination law, as far as I can tell -- and it is claimed that this is the first antidiscrimination law in the U.S. -- in the state or territory -- and inspired later legislation, I think, about six to nine months Page 12 later in New York State to pass its antidiscrimination law, referencing the territorial law in the debate. And it was this law that I think induced Branch Rickey to integrate Major League Baseball. So this is, you know, one of those events in the obscure corner of the world that has wide ramifications. MS. STAFFORD: Thank you so much, and I'll be sure that our design manager, Roger Vasquez, will reach out to you to ensure that we've captured those names and information so that we can add it to the information we provide to the artists. Madam Chair, if -- of course, Mr. Adams is here to answer any questions for the committee members as well, as you begin your decision. MS. LANNIN: Thank you so much, Mr. Adams. Thanks for attending. I'd like to ask everyone to talk about five minutes, if they could and talk -- I think we'll talk about both of them as we go through. So each person that I call on, first, to the 2019 and then we can do the 2020, if that's okay. Page 13 Robert, would you mind starting? MR. HOGE: No, not at all. Thank you. I think this is kind of challenging to represent space. We talk about space a lot in terms of coin designs -- what's in the field and what isn't there -- but with regard to Native Americans, to try to relate it directly to them, I think this is fairly challenging -- a fairly challenging project and probably would be so with any group of people. I don't know if we want to try and focus on a single individual or not. I mean, I kind of have a question in my mind about that because the Native American people just have such a broad general contribution. I think one thing we might want to consider is incorporation of an arrow symbolic of flight because I know so many of the native people have chosen to use arrows or arrowheads as their emblems in the various medals that we've reviewed and the designs for the congressional medals over the past years. So I think maybe an arrow or an arrowhead combined with something celestial, so to Page 14 speak, might be an appropriate thought. Apart from that, I think we might try to introduce something that seems very high tech. I'm not sure just what that might be but something that looks dramatically electronic perhaps. Did you want me to continue to comment? MS. LANNIN: If you could continue to the 2020. MS. STAFFORD: Actually, Madam Chair, if I could just interrupt for a second. I want to be sure that Mr. Adams feels comfortable interjecting as he sees fit during the discussion. I know that over the years, when we've worked on Native American dollar coins, in particular, there have been several symbols which some may think iconic and representative of the Native American culture but, when they were actually incorporated into designs, they caused some sensitivities. And so, for example, whether it's using a feather to represent and give a nod to the Native American culture or an arrowhead, for example. So, Mr. Adams, I just want to be sure that if Page 15 there's something that is suggested, that you just want to make sure you manage our -- manage the communications to the artists about what is appropriate and what is not. We really welcome your input as we go along. MR. ADAMS: This is Jim talking. Then I should talk -- not wait for all the speakers but to interject as we go along? MS. LANNIN: Yes, you can interject whenever you feel that it's appropriate. MR. ADAMS: Yeah. One point, rather than the arrow, which is fine, but star imagery is also very important in a number of tribes. Actually, I saw a scan of a portrait of Mary Ross, which is in our -- the museum's collections, that has a sevenpointed star representing the Pleiades and the origin of the Cherokee people. So that's another icon to keep in mind. MR. HOGE: Okay. MS. STAFFORD: MR. HOGE: MS. LANNIN: Thank you. Thank you. Robert, did you want to keep Page 16 going and we'll do the 2020 one? MR. HOGE: Sure. I -- with 2020 antidiscrimination, one thing we might want to consider as a possibility that occurred to me is the idea, once again, of the clasped hands because this is people adjoining together, which isn't exactly antidiscrimination, but it's more of the positive aspect of actual coming together. I know we've seen this on other designs, but it's, perhaps, something to consider again. Again, this is a concept -- antidiscrimination -- which is a little difficult, I think, to capture in terms of the iconic industry. people's comments. MS. LANNIN: I'd like to hear other Thank you. Thank you, Robert. you like to be up next? Okay. Jeanne, would Jeanne, are you there? Jeanne doesn't appear to be -- MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: MS. LANNIN: Oh, there you are. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: though. MS. LANNIN: Hello. Okay. Good. Okay. It's my mute button, Page 17 MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: with it. I'm not too compatible Anyway, I agree with Robert with the suggestion of doing something celestial on the coin, and I think that, you know, Jim Adams' interjection was very good. I -- I mean the first thing that I thought about with the space imagery is could we do something celestial and then have, perhaps, the space station also depicted in there somehow? I mean, we have to leave this up to the artists, absolutely, but it seems to me that we could have some interesting spacewalks or some space stations. But I really think we need to have some celestial representation in there that's very obvious for everyone who's holding this coin. It would be wonderful somehow -- I don't know how to put a profile of Mary Ross in here, but you know, there's a lot that could be done in terms of capturing what she was representing. And that's about all I have for '19 -- 2019. And the Alaskan antidiscrimination law, you know, we talk about clasping hands. You know, I think about -- it's a lot of dealing with a lot of Page 18 different people. We're not just doing, you know, Native Americans, but this set the pace for all of these laws. And can we someway represent not just Native Americans but also what they began, you know, many, many hands -- many, many hands encircling the, you know, United States or -- I don't know, but it seems like we should be able to somewhere grasp the fact that we're integrating all of our people. MS. LANNIN: MR. MORAN: That's all I have. Thank you, Jeanne. Yes, ma'am. I'm starting first with '19. Mr. Moran. This is Mike Moran. I think the topic is dangerously broad in terms of the number of participants in the space program for the Native Americans. I think we run the risk of a cluttered reverse as a result of that. I know that -- when I went in and did my research this morning, Mary Golda Ross stood out to me as iconic of the contributions and, also, in her own way she had to overcome the fact that she was both a Native American and an engineer -- a woman as an engineer. You go through her Page 19 background and she's very, very representative in that she's the great-granddaughter of John Ross, who was the leader of the Cherokees during the time of the expulsion and the "Trail of Tears." She went through all the space programs starting with the Skunk Work. 40. She was one of the original She worked on the P-38 Lightning. She had a lot to do with how we got to space, and she did it in a way that overcame a lot of the many prejudices from the World War II -- post-World War II era. I think she probably is the most fertile ground. I'm concerned that if you go too far -- reach too far and too broad, you tend to blur the individual contributions of the Native Americans. A single space station up there, to me, doesn't really convey much of the story of what they did, but again, that's up to the artists. I really feel like there's potential moving onto number '20 for Elizabeth Peratrovich, and I think the -- first of all, I caution: Don't do a storyboard with the governor of Alaska signing the Page 20 bill with everybody standing around him. It's not going to go anywhere, and it won't look good on the back of a coin anyway. But I really think that some of the Tlingit symbols for various words could be very powerful on the back of the coin. I also like Jeanne's idea of a wreath of hands, so to speak, or a circle of hands, maybe, surrounding the Tlingit symbol. Some words that would come to mind, maybe, would be "equality." There's some very powerful imagines in their art that are used for these symbols. I think that is the most likely the best potential for a good coin design here. Now, there's also a poster of Elizabeth Peratrovich that is very good. It's almost like Rosie the Riveter showing that she could overcome. Those are there easily Googled, but I really think that going back to the Tlingit language has an awesome potential. Thank you, Mary. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Michael. Dennis, please, your thoughts. MR. TUCKER: Yes. Thank you. This is Dennis Page 21 Tucker. Something I would point out for the 2019 design is that John Herrington is still alive. don't think he's even 60 years old yet. I So I think using a portrait of him or a figure of him would not be appropriate for a modern coin. But I do like the history behind the work of Mary Golda Ross. She designed rocket missiles and satellites, and that would be something that she's honored for. After her active career as an engineer, though, she was very active in recruiting young women and Native Americans into the engineering field. So that might be something that we explore -- her activity as a teacher and a mentor. Also, her background in school was as a mathematician, and she spoke frequently about the importance of mathematics in engineering and in the space program. So I wonder if there is some sort of symbolism or devices that could capture that -- the mathematical aspect of her education. For the 2020 design, something that stood out to me in Peratrovich's life is the fact that she became very active as a member of the Alaska Page 22 Native Brotherhood and Alaska Native Sisterhood, and these are groups that were formed the year after she was born. So she was born in 1911, and these groups, I believe, were formed in 1912. So this was a -- and then they were going to address racism in Alaska, so this was a struggle and, you know, something of importance in the Native American life in Alaska since she was a baby, and she became active in most groups. This was -- I mention this because this was a long struggle that she was -- that she became active in. I like the idea of clasped hands. It is something that has a numismatic history. Clasped hands go back, in the United States, to be Indian Peace Medals. Of course, in more modern times, they've been used on these Westward Journey Nickels and in other numismatic designs. But I think there's something there that nicely sums up the concept of brotherhood and sisterhood between Native Americans and other people that they live among and who live among them. thoughts on both of the designs. So those are my Page 23 MS. LANNIN: MR. URAM: here. Thank you, Dennis. Thanks, Madam Chair. Tom Uram. Tom Uram As I think about the '19 -- I'm getting a lot of feedback here. Is there -- are we okay now? MS. LANNIN: MR. URAM: better. Yep. Maybe that'll be a little bit The '19 design, being that we're also looking at the Apollo bill, it would be nice if the dollar coin could somehow compliment the commemorative program. I think it could also enhance the Sacajawea program and the dollar program somehow if we could coordinate that, as the artists are thinking about that, as it relates to the other program for 2019. And I think that some of the comments that have been made, as it relates to design and so forth, are right on. I'm in favor also of keeping it more in a broad text and concept and illustration versus focusing on one person. I think you run into a lot of problems when you do that and, once again, see how it coordinates with Page 24 the Apollo commemorative program as well. So I think you have a lot of opportunity, and I think the dollar -- if the Mint could somehow work it out with legislation where you could have this dollar coin marketed with, or in conjunction, and packaging with the commemoratives, I think you could really launch the dollar program off again. As far as the 2020 program goes, I'm in favor of a lot of concepts that have been discussed, including the hands. However, as Dennis mentioned, it is a situation where other coins have been done like this. One that comes to mind -- and I hope that we could do more than just that -- and that is the 50 pence piece from the mid'70s that Britain did, which was a nice commemorative, but we have to be very careful of duplicating or appearing to duplicate the design. So if we're doing hands, I think it has to be more than just the hands. It has to have some other symbolic images and design traits that would be conducive to what is trying to be achieved. Madam Chairman, that's all I have to say. Page 25 MS. LANNIN: MR. VIOLA: Thanks so much, Tom. Thank you. Herman. This is Herman Viola. And I want to say I'm really quite taken with a lot of the suggestions. When I first sat down with this, I thought, boy, this is going to be a tough one; but all of these ideas I think are quite good. (Inaudible) Indians in the space program -the thing about space, Indians are always into the skies, always looking at the stars; and I think it really would be nice to have some sort of celestial image. And, like, I kind of agree, if you stick with just the image of one person, you kind of lose that unless the artist can make it all work out. On the other hand, Mary Ross is extremely significant because she carries the legacy of John Ross. And, you know, we always will talk of famous men but here we have a woman, but it would be nice if we could kind of incorporate her somehow into this. Now, Elizabeth Peratrovich, I -- she's a member -- she's a Tlingit; she's a member of the Page 26 Raven moiety, and I think it would be symbolic to have -- if you've looked at the Raven design of that moiety, it's very striking. If we could somehow tune that in and recognize that this is really a truly Native American, I think that could work. But you know, the idea of the clasped hands, I love the physical association, but I think that may have been overdone. So, like, I think, though, you're all on the right track, and I'm very pleased with this. MS. LANNIN: Thank you. Thank you so much, Herman. Has either Erik or Heidi joined us? MR. JANSEN: I am here. MS. LANNIN: Erik, are you here? MR. JANSEN: I am. MS. LANNIN: Well, you are. Could you speak next, please, for both the 2019 and the 2020? MR. JANSEN: On the 2019 coin, I'm seeing a similarity to the situation here where we had the challenge of the iron workers, and we ended up with a quite recognizable imagine -- an iron Page 27 worker on a beam against the skyline, the curvature of New York. And I thought that worked in a difficult situation, and I see a similar situation here where we need an image -- in order to be effective, we need an image that implies the context of the contribution and maybe not just the contribution; that is, designing rockets. Having said that, I think the coin needs to be about the contribution and not the culture. We're not here to integrate the space program with the Indian culture, per se, so I think we need to be careful we don't get mission creep here. This is not a commemorative of NASA and the Indian -- or the Native Americans', rather, contribution to that. I like Mike Moran's thoughts here, and I agree with Dennis. I don't think a portrait is going to be appropriate here. Having said all of that, if this could dovetail with the Apollo program of 2019, I think Tom's idea might make for some interesting marketing opportunities here. Not that the coin should be driven by the marketing opportunities, but I think thinking that way up Page 28 front is a worthwhile project. Concerning the 2020, I think there are some incredible symbols coming out of the Tlingit Tribe here. The gnomonic art, which is very notable and identifiable to, I think, Northwestern Native American artwork, might be something integrated here. And in terms of symbols, I'm a little concerned that clasping hands might be an Anglo symbol but not necessarily one that really resonates with the Native American culture. When you kind of dig into the culture here, the interesting symbols and concepts that I see, which are somewhat allied to diversity, might be the moiety as Herman described; that is, the relative relationships within clans -- the raven, the eagle, the wolf. Now, these are symbols that may be lost, I think, to many of the numismatic or, certainly, American culture but are definitely emblematic of the concept of all inclusion and the contribution of all, yet the independence of all. I'd like to see, potentially, one of the more notable symbols from the Tlingit culture would be Page 29 the totem poles. Now, a totem pole is historically not something related to diversity. I think it's probably more related to one's lifetime contribution to the concepts of stewardship and giving to the community. So there's some inappropriate blurring there, but in terms of an image, an icon, which might reverberate in United States culture, maybe there's something we could work with there that wouldn't (inaudible) or misappropriate a Native American concept into what we're trying to map into here. Finally, I feel 2020 -- I think every artist should probably read the speech which was given in this effort; and out of that speech, I think there are a number of phrases, and I'll leave that to the artist to pull out the ones that are significant to them in their view of this, but I think the words of that speech may be one of the sources of inspiration for an artist. MS. LANNIN: joined us? Thanks so much, Erik. Thank you. Has Heidi Page 30 MR. URAM: Mary, Tom Uram again. Can I just make a comment regarding what Erik just said? MS. LANNIN: MR. URAM: Yes. Erik mentioned about the totem. Probably one of the most famous iconic totems is the 1958 Canadian dollar. So the artist might want to take a look at that and see -- not to copy it, obviously, or to have something added but use that as part of -- I think that's a great idea as far as the symbolism goes, and it might be part of the design of a broader spectrum, but the '58 dollar was the one to certainly -- it's iconic. And I might offer, there was a commemorative in 1967, I think, was the 100-year anniversary of the purchase of Alaska's "Seward's Folly." That particular commemorative medal, which you can see the art on the web, it also has an inspirational totem mixed with some other images, which -- not to say we could copy that but might be an inspirational stepping-off point to try to bring together the concept of stewardship, community, and its related connection to diversity. Page 31 MS. LANNIN: thoughts on this. Okay. I have just a couple of Okay. So 2019 the American Indians in the space program. I think building on the contributions of Mary Golda Ross are very important. Dennis brought up some very appropriate concept that said John Herrington is still alive. In fact, I think he's only 58. And I do like the idea of an arrow, and I do like the idea of the celestial imagery. And I was wondering if there was a way to create an arrow made out of equations, you know, some of the mathematical models and formulas that would have been appropriate to the space station and any of the work that Mary Golda Ross was doing, and the arrow could be heading toward a celestial star or a concept of a space station or something like that. Certainly, the new movie that's out talking about the contributions of women onto the early NASA programs would be helping this claim. And then in regard to Elizabeth Peratrovich, I read part of her speech, and she was not going to take any guff from anyone. One of the things that Page 32 I learned about the Raven Clan and the Tlingit is that it's matrilineal, and so all of the honors and all -- everything passes through the mother. And so the idea of some man that was sort of not in her tribe telling her what she couldn't do was probably ingrained in her very early on. So the idea of clasped hands, I think, is too European. What about hands ripping up a sign saying "No Native Americans." That's one thought for a pair of hands. The other thought, which is much more universal and a little more peaceful, would be -I like Erik's idea of the totem pole. Could a totem pole be rising from an outline of the state of Alaska? And possibly put -- well Juneau is the capital, so I guess it could be in the same position where Juneau is. She did all of this with her husband on their own money. imagine that -- traveling all over? amazing. All right. Can you It's pretty Those are my thoughts. Does anyone else -- Mr. Adams, would you like to jump in here at all? Page 33 MR. ADAMS: Yeah. Actually, on the 2020 coin of the Elizabeth Peratrovich, the mention of the totem pole made me think. Another distinctive feature in the Northwest architecture are these elaborately carved doors, and I think maybe the image of a door opening might be more appropriate -MS. LANNIN: MR. ADAMS: Ooh. Oh, yes. -- since, in effect, this is a bill to open doors. Also, when you talked about totem poles, I keep thinking about the phrase "the bottom of the totem pole." It's exactly the reverse of the idea we want to get across. MS. LANNIN: MR. ADAMS: But -- okay. But also, going back to '19 -- the '19 coin, I should add, Jerry Elliott is also alive, so that kind of leaves Mary Ross as the one honoree that can be -MS. LANNIN: Exactly. MR. ADAMS: -- would fit the protocol. But also, looking over her biography, not only is she from this distinguished Cherokee family, her early Page 34 education was within the Cherokee Nation, including -- I think she attended the Northeastern Teachers' College, which is the offshoot of the women's college that was founded by the Cherokee Nation. Back in the 1870s or '80s was, I think, one of the first women's colleges in the country. So she has not only this great success in the space program but has done it with a background that was basically provided by an Indian country. MS. LANNIN: comments? Okay. Does anyone have any other Thank you, Mr. Adams, very much. MR. JANSEN: A thought coming off of Mr. Adam's idea there of using kind of -MS. LANNIN: Erik, identify yourself, please. MR. JANSEN: All right. Erik. In that case, I'm Stepping off of Adam's idea of this kind of using ethnic house, the oval -- a door with the totem pole and then maybe -- as you often see ideas springing from someone's mind, a cloud flowing out of the doors to the sky with the symbols of the sky with a spacecraft to recognizable. Something like that, so you're Page 35 merging -- the visual being the flowing of the ideas to the space exploration out of the home of Native culture. MS. LANNIN: Just an idea. Okay. Does anyone else have any last words, any other further discussion? MR. VIOLA: Well, this is Herman. And I like the idea of showing the doors to a Lincoln home because they are beautifully carved as Jim says, and you won't see that kind of symbolism elsewhere, but it certainly is "open the door and come on in." You know, Native people are very welcoming, and that's why those totem poles were there. They were kind of family markers, and when you were walking around, you knew whose house you were welcome to have dinner at. MS. LANNIN: Okay. Good. I do like the door opening idea as well because it lends itself to, I think, some very interesting art. Does anyone else have any other comments? right. All If there's no further business before the committee, I move to adjourn. MR. VIOLA: Second. Is there a second? Page 36 MS. LANNIN: And who said second? Who seconded? MR. VIOLA: Herman. MS. LANNIN: Herman. Okay. Sorry. All in favor of adjourning, say "aye." ALL SPEAKERS: MS. LANNIN: Aye. Those opposed, say "nay." In the opinion of the charity, ayes have it, and the meeting is adjourned. Thank you all very much for attending. (Whereupon, at 1:41 p.m., the meeting concluded.) Page 37 CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC I, SAMUEL HONIG, the officer before whom the foregoing proceeding was taken, do hereby certify that the proceedings were recorded by me and thereafter reduced to typewriting under my direction; that said proceedings are a true and accurate record to the best of my knowledge, skills, and ability; that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties to the action in which this was taken; and, further, that I am not a relative or employee of any counsel or attorney employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. SAMUEL HONIG Notary Public in and for the District of Columbia Page 38 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER I, CINDY FORRISTER, do hereby certify that this transcript was prepared from audio to the best of my ability. I am neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties to this action, nor financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. 1/22/2017 CINDY FORRISTER Page 39