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Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 CITIZENS COINAGE ADVISORY COMMITTEE TELEPHONIC PUBLIC MEETING Tuesday, February 16, 2016 1:00 p.m. United States Mint 8th Floor Boardroom 801 9th Street, N.W. Washington, D.C. Reported by: 20220 Michael Farkas, Capital Reporting Company (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 A P P E A R A N C E S Mary Lannin, CCAC Chair April Stafford, Design Management Greg Weinman, Esq. Michael Moran Jeanne Stevens-Sollman Thomas Uram Steven Roach Dennis Tucker Heidi Wastweet Robert Hoge Dr. Herman Viola (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 C O N T E N T S Agenda Items Welcome and Call to Order Mary Lannin 4 Discussion of Letter and Minutes From Previous Meeting Mary Lannin 9 Review and discuss candidate designs For the 2017 America the Beautiful Quarters Program - Effigy Mounds National Park April Stafford 9 Review and discuss candidate designs For the 2017 America the Beautiful Quarters Program - Ellis Island (Statue of Liberty National Monument) April Stafford 33 (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 P R O C E E D I N G S WELCOME AND CALL TO ORDER MS. LANNIN: Good afternoon. I call this to order, this Telephone Public Meeting of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee for Tuesday, February 16, 2016. The members of the committee on the phone are: Michael Moran, Jeanne Stevens-Sollman, Thomas Uram. And the members who are in attendance are myself, Mary Lannin, Steven Roach, Dennis Tucker. And we are waiting to hear from Heidi and we are waiting to hear from Robert and Dr. Viola is here. Donald Scarinci is not able to participate and Eric Hansen is not able to participate today. The first order of business is to recognize the newly appointed members of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee. And they are in attendance with us here today at the Mint. Steve Roach is the newest member representing interest of the general public. He is a numismatic journalist who served as editor in chief at Coin World, the world's largest coin hobby (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 publication. He holds a BA in Art History and Organizational Studies from the University of Michigan and has a JD from Ohio State University. After working as a rare coin specialist at Heritage Coin Galleries in Dallas, Texas, Mr. Roach practiced law, but he later returned to Heritage to serve as Director of the firm's trust and estates department. After a stint at Christie's in New York City as a specialist in 19th Century European Paintings department Mr. Roach reconnected with his love of coins by returning to the Midwest to lead the staff at Coin World first as associate editor and later as editor in chief. So welcome Steve. Dennis Tucker is a new member specially qualified in numismatics. Dennis is a publisher of Whitman Publishing, the largest numismatic publishing firm in the United States. While at Whitman Mr. Tucker has published eleven editions of the guidebook United States Coins popularly known as the red book long considered one of the most authoritative coin price sources. Mr. Tucker has a degree in Political Science and is a published author and editor in the (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 fields of numismatics, banking and financial history, the American presidency, U.S. Military history and other non-fiction topics. His most recent book American Gold and Silver, U.S. Mint Collector and Investor Coins and Metals Bicentennial to Date debuted this summer and I believe it is actually for sale beginning next Tuesday, February 23. And I would also be remiss about saying that Dennis is also the publisher of Mike Moran's new book which is also available the 23rd of February called 1849 the Philadelphia Mint Strikes Gold. So we have quite a few authors here. Welcome gentlemen. Today during our meeting the CCAC will consider the following items: Review and discuss new candidate designs for the 2017 America the Beautiful Quarters Program for Effigy Mounds National Monument as well as Ellis Island, the Statue of Liberty National Monument. Before we begin our proceedings are there members of the press in attendance. Please let us know. (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 MR. UNSER: Mike Unser from Coin News. MS. LANNIN: Hello Michael. MR. UNSER: Good morning. MS. LANNIN: That's it. Okay. The first item -MR. WEINMAN: MS. LANNIN: Madam Chair. I'm sorry. MR. WEINMAN: Could you take the roll on the phone please just to confirm which members are on. MS. LANNIN: All right. Which members are on the phone please; could you announce yourselves? MS. WASTWEET: MS. LANNIN: This is Heidi. MR. HOGE: Heidi, nice to hear you. Robert Hoge. MS. LANNIN: Robert, nice to hear you. Jeanne do you want to just say you are here again. MS. STAFFORD: MS. LANNIN: She might be muted. She might be muted. Okay. how about Mr. Moran and Mr. Uram? MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Hello. MR. URAM: Present. (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 And Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 MS. LANNIN: Okay. And Jeanne you are here? And Michael you are here? MR. MORAN: Yes. MS. LANNIN: Thank you so much. So the only members not participating are Don Scarinci -MR WEINMAN: Check the press again please. MS. LANNIN: Could we check the members of the press again please. I have Mike Unser. MR. GILKES: Paul Gilkes from Coin World. MS. LANNIN: Paul Gilkes. MR. HARPER: Dave Harper, Numismatic News. MR. HOLMES: Dan Holmes, Coin Update. MR. MORTON: Joe Morton here with Omaha. MS. STAFFORD: Can the last person who gave their name please repeat that a little slower. MR. MORTON: Sure, it's Joe or Joseph Morton; that is M as in Mary O-R-T-O-N. MS. STAFFORD: Thank you, sir, I appreciate it. MR. WEINMAN: MS. LANNIN: MR. WEINMAN: Thank you very much. Thank you. Please be seated. (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 DISCUSSION OF LETTER AND MINUTES FROM PREVIOUS MEETING MS. LANNIN: Okay. The first item on our agenda is acceptance to the letters to the secretary and the minutes from our previous meeting. Those items were included in the meeting binders for members to review. Are there any comments on either document? Hearing none I move to approve the minutes and the secretary's letters; is there a second? MR. MORAN: MS. LANNIN: Moran seconds. Thank you Michael. For purposes of the telephone conference are there any objections to the motion? If not, without objection the minutes and letters are approved. REVIEW AND DISCUSS CANDIDATE DESIGNS FOR THE 2017 AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL QUARTERS PROGRAM - EFFIGY MOUNDS NATIONAL MONUMENT MS. LANNIN: All right. We now turn to the business of the Committee designs for the Effigy Mounds National Monument. April Stafford, Director of the Mint's Design Management Program will present the first portfolio for review and comment. (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you, Madam Chair. And as a reminder to our members on the phone our transcriber has asked me to ask you to say your name before you provide comments so that he can make sure it is represented correctly in the transcription. So thank you for that in advance. We are reviewing the United States Mint America the Beautiful Quarters Program which is a multi-year initiative authorized by Public Law 110456, the America’s Beautiful National Parks Quarter Dollar Coin Act of 2008. The act directs the United States Mint to mint and issues 56 circulating quarter dollars with the reverse or tail side having designs that are emblematic of a national park or other national site in each state, the District of Columbia and the five U.S. territories. The quarters are issued sequentially each year in the order in which the featured site was first established as a national park or site. We'll start with the required reverse inscriptions. They include the designation of the site and the host jurisdiction, the year 2017 and the (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 motto E PLURIBUS UNUM. As a reminder candidate designs for this year's program were first presented in October of 2015. At the CCACs and CFAs request additional candidate designs for Effigy Mounds and Ellis Island have been developed. So today we are reviewing the revised portfolios for these sites. First we are pleased to have with us Jim Nepstad, Superintendent of Effigy Mounds National Monument in Iowa. Jim, are you with us? MR. NEPSTAD: MS. STAFFORD: I am. Very good. Would you care to say a few words? MR. NEPSTAD: for that. Oh, I guess I wasn't prepared But I appreciate everybody's attention to both the old designs and the new and just to hear people's opinion. MS. STAFFORD: Thank you Mr. Nepstad. And as with the designs that were presented in October if you care to expound on any of your preferences or provide information to the CCAC members just let us know and the Madame Chair will recognize you. (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 So beginning with design 01 for Iowa, Effigy Mounds, design 01 depicts a deer in the foreground and a view of an effigy mound in the background. Design 02 depicts a peregrine falcon, part of a release program in the park holding an arrowhead with an image of a bird effigy from the Marching Bear Mound Group. May apple wild flowers commonly seen in the park are featured to the left and right of the arrowhead. The arrowhead was incorporated as a reference to the indigenous people credited with building the mounds as well as to the national park service's conservations efforts. Design 03 depicts a young man pausing during an exploratory hike to consider a bear mound. The hiker's posture signals his great respect as captioned in the additional inscription respect for the old ones. May apple wild flowers and other foliage are seen in the foreground. Design 04 features a birds-eye view of mounds from the Marching Bear Group and visitors seen on the left and right of the mounds. Designs 05 and 06 depict either a hiker or (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 family visiting the mounds. Designs 07, 08, 09, 10, 11 depict variations on an aerial view of effigy mounds. are part of the Marching Bear Group. The mounds shown I should note that design 09 is our liaison's preferred design. Design 12 depicts a close up view of a bear effigy, one of many mounds that comprise the Marching Bear Group. Visitors can be seen in the background with May apple wild flowers in the foreground. Designs 13 and 14 depict a graphic representation of the effigy mounds. Design 15 depicts an aerial view of an effigy mound in the shape of a bird. This particular mound is part of the Marching Bear Group, a collection of mounds located in the south unit of the monument. The additional inscription reads: Bird effigy. Design 16 and 17 depict aerial views of Great Bear Mound, the monument's largest mound. Designs 18, 18A, and 18B depict variations on an aerial view of three effigy mounds that are part of the 15 mounds that comprise the Marching Bear Group. Designs 18 and 18A contain the additional (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 inscription Marching Bear Group. Design 19 features a bird effigy and a bear effigy against a depiction of the Mississippi River as seen from Fire Point Outlook. Additional inscriptions read air, water, earth, and people. Design 20 and 21 depict hands holding earth with a bird effigy above. Design 21 also features the Mississippi River in the background and mounds from the Marching Bear Group. Designs 22, 22A and 22B depict the Mississippi River in the background and a bird effigy at the top of the design. The lower halves of the designs feature variations of the bear effigy. Design 22 also features the inscriptions air, water, and land. And finally Design 23 depicts a bird effigy with a lush forest in the background. Madame Chair. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, April Michael would like to lead us off? MR. MORAN: MS. LANNIN: Be happy to Mary. All right. (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 MR. MORAN: First of all I'd like to call everybody's attention to the sketch on 02, not the remission of the quarter but just the sketch of the falcon/peregrine falcon. That is the best wild life sketch I think I've seen in about four and a half years on the committee. examples. We've seen some good We've also seen bad ones. But whoever the artist is that did this needs to be encouraged and complimented on an excellent depiction. Now that being said I'm not going to make a mistake by talking about design 01 with the deer in the foreground, that will get me in trouble with Heidi and I do not want to do that. But I'm going to cast my vote for number 02 simply because I think it is the cleanest presentation that will be recognizable on a quarter. space. I think it makes good use of the negative I also think it does past, present, and future in terms of the past being an arrowhead with effigy set over on top of it, the present being May apples and the future being the peregrine falcon program to reinstate the falcon in the area. quarter. I just like the I know that there's maybe de-emphasis in (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 terms of the effigy mounds but I think the effigy mounds are very problematic when you try and depict them accurately on a quarter as we saw the last set. My support goes to number 02, Mary. MS. LANNIN: Thank you so much Michael. Robert, are you with us? MR. HOGE: Yes, hello. MS. LANNIN: Hello. MR. HOGE: These things, these effigy mounds are probably among the most difficult subjects for any of the America the Beautiful Quarters Program images I think. I've had trouble trying to make a selection but primarily for me I actually came up with the idea that number 09 was my preference even before I knew that was that of the liaison. So I think it is important to show the scale of the effigy mound. one does it. That Actually I like the idea of including a small human figure as a matter of scale but I think I would go with the committee's preference of number 09. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Robert. Jeanne, would you like to add your voice to this? (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 MS STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Yes, thank you, Mary. I have to agree with Robert and Michael that this is a hugely difficult park to illustrate and I want to commend the artists who resubmitted and worked really hard to take into consideration our comments from our last meeting in October. However I'm going to have to go with the effigy mounds themselves. learning a lot about this particular park. know about this. I am I didn't And so I am intrigued and hopeful that the park is represented by what it is and those are the mounds. I liked the particular designs that show the scale of the mounds which is the preferred number 09. But I also like number 07 where we have a little bit more of a contemporary cast on what the mounds are and that being the trees that aren't -- you know they are seen from above. So where 08 and 09 we see the prospective of going into fields and forests I think it is pretty wonderful those two attract my attention or actually those three: 07, 08, and 09. I'm going to cast my vote, it is very hard, it is between 07 and 09. 07 being more contemporary, (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 09 depicting what the park really is. agree with Robert. And I also I sort of chose that before I knew it was the preferred image. Thank you, Madame Chairman. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Jeanne. Tom? MR. URAM: Sure. Thank you Madame Chairman. I am leaning also towards Mike's comments regarding how clean number 02 is and the falcon and you know it has the icon of the state park in there as well as the mound. And I think it would really be a very clean design and representation of what's trying to be portrayed here. So my first vote will also be for number 02. In respect to Jim and the committee, his committee regarding their thoughts here on number 09 I'm just concerned again going back to our original discussion in October how this is going to really look, the size it would be as a quarter. I know that we added the trees in the top there and tried to put some ground to help accentuate this foreground but I think when it comes down to striking and size we are (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 still going to lose those images. So, therefore, I'm going to lean more towards number 02 is my first choice then the others. And I really don't care for the different people in the park. I think that keeping it natural and keeping the human aspect out of it I think adds something to the design as well. So I'm not really in favor of some of the ones that have, even though they are nice designs and represent people coming through the park I think that it is just a little too much on this quarter. So summation number 02 is what I'm going to go with. With respect to Jim and the committee I'll give a vote or so to their choice but weighing it towards number 02. Thank you, Madame Chairman. MS. LANNIN: Heidi? Thanks so much, Tom. Heidi? MR. WEINMAN: MS. LANNIN: Heidi, are you there? Heidi, are you here? While we are waiting for Heidi, Herman would you like to speak about it? (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 MR. VIOLA: Okay. Thank you. First I want to say how important it is that we have these quarters. I'm not sure you are all aware the State of Wisconsin just introduced legislation to take away the protection for their mounds in Wisconsin because they are in the way of development and considering that the mounds are really right across the river from Effigy Mounds. So I think the timing of this quarter could not be more important. There is a great deal of consternation in Wisconsin. The American Indians are holding demonstrations at the courthouse and the legislature and I thought to myself this is an answer to prayer. Once you get these out there people are going to see how important they are. And so in Wisconsin what they are saying is that if they can show that there are burial remains in the mounds then the state or the historical society can try to protect them. But it is very hard to prove there are burial mounds in there and a lot of them have disintegrated over time. So you use electronic (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 devices. So having said that I think we want to make sure that people realize what these mounds look like. And so I really like the idea of showing some of these kind of in perspective. And so there are some very interesting ones and I take the point that people look too small when you put them into these coins. So I guess I would say I'd go with number 09 since that is what the folks there want anyhow and it certainly gives you that perspective. MS. LANNIN: Okay. Thank you, Herman. Heidi, are you here? MS. WASTWEET: MS. LANNIN: I'm here. Okay. Would you like to go next please? MS. WASTWEET: Yes. Thank you. make my comment I have a question. Before I As there is some preference for design number 09 I'm struggling to see the difference between design number 09 and design number 08 other than design number 09 is drawn a little darker but the design itself to me looks alike. So can someone comment on that? (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 MS. STAFFORD: No, you are correct. Heidi actually let me ask, Don Everhart are you on the line? MR. EVERHART: I am. MS. STAFFORD: So I don't know if you heard the question from Heidi. Design 08 and 09 we know to be very similar but did you want to comment about how in 09 the borders of the mounds were accentuated? MR. EVERHART: Yeah. Not only were the borders accentuated but I think the actual mounds were beefed up a little bit to give them a little bit more presence than what they had on number 08. MS. LANNIN: Okay. Thank you, Don. Heidi, does that answer your question? MS. WASTWEET: I suppose. It still seems to me like that is a sculpting difference rather than a design difference and for future reference I don't think that we need to have seen that in our packet. I think that we could have simplified with just one. But that is neither here nor there. MS. STAFFORD: agree with you Heidi. I agree. This is April. I And if this had been the first time we'd presented we would have only included the (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 latter but because so many comments that we received from both the CCAC as well as the CFA was about improving upon the shape of the mounds. We just wanted to kind of bring both of those into view so you could see how the artist went back to that task. MS. WASTWEET: against the grain here. Okay. So I'm going to go I don't think the subject was as difficult as we are making it out to be. It is difficult because the way these are designed many of them are just not going to show up on a coin as well as they are in the drawings. So I am going to put all of my support behind design number 02. is a beautiful, beautiful design. composed. It is well drawn. I think this It is well It encompasses not only the mounds but the other aspects of the park. And I just don't think we could have asked for anything more than design number 02. And I am going to put all of my support behind that design. And I'm going to give zero points to all the other designs as they I think are all posing some problems as a coin. Thank you. MS. LANNIN: Thank you very much, Heidi. (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 Dennis, are you ready for your first discussion? MR. TUCKER: Yes, yes, I am. And first of all I'd like to thank you for the welcome. I'm very happy to be here. I respect what Tom says about the human figures in the different designs. In my opinion the designs with a human element are actually the most engaging. I think that they personalize a coin design for the viewer and they help you identify with it and maybe even picture yourself at this national site and interacting with it. If you've been to the national site then the coin serves as a memento and if not, it encourages your engagement with it. For that reason I like number 03. I think it addresses some of the issues of scale and perspective that has been discussed. has a good legend or inscription. here respect for the old ones. I also think it I like the motto And the fact is that these mounds are made by humans as much as they have to do with animals. For that reason I also like 20 and 21 which (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 show a person's hands with the earth that are connected with the effigies above them. My favorite is number 03. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Dennis. Steve you're next. MR. ROACH: Thank you Madame Chairman. I'd first like to express just my gratitude to have an opportunity to work with the CCAC, the Mint, the members on the CCAC and I am excited to come up with some great coin designs over the next few years. So thank you. I echo what Mike and Tom said in expressing appreciation for design number 02. design. It is a gorgeous But I don't get the effigy mounds. When I look at a coin design, especially one that has to play for a quarter reverse I want something that will spark curiosity. It is going to make me curious about what are these effigy mounds. With design number 02 the concept of the effigy mound almost seems to be an afterthought. And I know it is a challenge to convey these mounds that are low to the ground on a coin. But I'd be curious (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 to see the Mint's response to that challenge. And so I vote for design number 09. MS. LANNIN: Okay. Thank you. Last but not least I hope. I'd like to talk about something that no one has talked about yet, designs number 13 and 14 conveys to me a very clean way to show prehistoric art from the viewpoint that the makers I believe intended us to see it which is an aerial view. not consistent. It forms its own pattern. It is It's human, it is different enough and I think that my criteria is if a coin was put on a table in front of me, would I pick that up. And I think in this instance I would be intrigued enough with this design to pick it up and try to figure out what it is. So I am a strong proponent of both 13 and 14. Don, I would like to ask you if the various techniques that could be used for frosting, et cetera and so forth, would it have to be uniform or could some of the animals be frosted at different levels. MR. EVERHART: Mary, are you asking me, this is Don Everhart? (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 MS. LANNIN: Yes, I am, Don. I'm sorry I should have said Everhart. MR. EVERHART: Yeah. I am having a hard time hearing a little bit some of the enunciation because of this blackberry music. would be a possibility. But anyway that I mean you could have different textures and different shades on different animals to differentiate them. one uniform. Or you could just have I guess it would depend on which design of these would be chosen. MS. LANNIN: Well, it seems to me -- MR. EVERHART: MS. LANNIN: But I like that idea. Yeah number 14 it seems to me at least the way that I'm looking at it would be the effigies themselves would actually be frosted. So I thought with different levels of frosting for the animals that that could add a more threedimensionality to it. MR. EVERHART: That is a good point. MR. ANTONUCCI: MS. LANNIN: This is Steve. Hey, Steve. MR. ANTONUCCI: We had stopped the practice (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 over a year ago a decision was made on the quarters we weren't going to be going with multiple tones of frosting because of the manufacturing issues. What we can do though is certainly a level of frosting add extra to that to get some differentiation there. But it would not be full levels of razor frosting detail. Does that answer --? MS. LANNIN: There would be some frosting but not -MS. STAFFORD: There would be a differentiation but he is just kind of clarifying the technique that would -MS. LANNIN: answering that. All right. Well, thank you for All right. MR. MORAN: MS. LANNIN: MR. MORAN: Mary, Mary, can I -Yes. -- make a comment, please. This is Mike Moran. MS. LANNIN: MR. MORAN: Yes. -- before while they were doing these quarters for the general public or for the collectors, we get off on this path of frosting and (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 degrees of frosting but I am reminded of the Blue Ridge Park quarter where we had the highway going down the center and it might have been okay in proof but it was an absolute failure as a circulating quarter. You can't tell what it is either when you put your glasses on. And I'm afraid we are going to get into this with these mounds. I don't think you can differentiate as Heidi pointed out between 08 and 09 when you start to engrave it on quarter and spit out a half billion or billion of them. there. You just can't put the relief in And while it is important that we consider frosting and the collecting bargain we also have to understand that a bunch of people are going to pick these things up and they are not going to have very positive thoughts about some of these effigies if we go with number 8 or number 9 and the perspective of a person or the trees in the background it is going to get lost. these. And that is my trouble with going with And I think that's the trouble the committee had the first time around in choosing one of these effigies. It just reminds me of all the wrong things and I don't want to say that but while they look like (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 mounds to the unpracticed eye they are going to look like something else. MS. LANNIN: All right. MS WASTWEET: those comments. This is Heidi. I agree with And I also want to clarify we are doing this in the larger format also; is that correct? MS. STAFFORD: Yes, the five ounce silver, yes. MS. WASTWEET: Thank you, April. So considering this is going to be made in two sizes what we are really looking for is a design that works well in a small shot of quarter and the larger corrector version as well and designs 13 and 14 I think don't meet that criteria. I think that they would be more attractive as the actual quarter but doesn't quite have enough I think to create that definite interest in the larger format as I think design number 02 would look beautiful in that larger format and I think we would have much more sales of the large one if we went with design number 02. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Heidi. Does anybody else have further discussion (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 after hearing what fellow committee members have said? Okay. Why don't we begin our voting procedure and we'll take -MS. STAFFORD: If you would like I can start going through the Ellis Island designs while -MR. WEINMAN: For those of you on the phone if you could please fill out the ballot that I gave you and send it, email it to me. And for those of you that are in the room I think everybody in the room now has one to fill out. So once again if you are on the phone please go ahead, rate zero, one, two, three for each design and email it back to me. And we will start the process of compilation here. MS. STAFFORD: Madame Chair would you like me to go through the designs and the descriptions while they're voting or would you like to take a small break. MS. LANNIN: I'd like to take a small break if you don't mind, April. There are enough differences in what we've chosen that maybe people want to relook at that. So we will take a break for five minutes while we are voting and begin again. (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 (WHEREUPON, a brief recess was taken.) MS. LANNIN: Okay. It is 1:37. Our five minute break is over. And while Greg is still tallying our votes on Effigy Mounds I would like to ask April to read about our second -MR. WEINMAN: MS. LANNIN: MR. WEINMAN: Real quickly -I'm sorry Greg. From those of you on the phone I'm still missing ballots from Heidi, Tom, and Jeanne. MS. LANNIN: Can you all hear that? MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: MR. WEINMAN: Yes. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: MR. WEINMAN: Are you missing mine? This is Jeanne. Did you send it to my email address gweiman? MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Yes, Greg Weinman. MR. WEINMAN: gweinman@usmint. -MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Yes. MR. WEINMAN: gweinman@usmint.treas.gov? MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: MR. WEINMAN: Yes. I'm going to -- You have -- (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 MR. MORAN: I did the same thing. MS. STAFFORD: It might just be taking a second. MR. WEINMAN: It may just be in transit here. MS. STAFFORD: MR. WEINMAN: Shall I go ahead? MR. MORAN: Go ahead. is Mike. If I don't get -- You all are breaking up. This Did you get mine? MR. WEINMAN: have Mr. Hoge's. Yes, I have Mr. Moran's and I I'm missing the others. Do me a favor and resend it if you don't mind. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: MS. LANNIN: Okay. And Heidi and Tom if you could resend yours that would be great. MR. URAM: Will do. MS. LANNIN: MS. WASTWEET: Thank you. I just texted mine because the emails are not coming through. MR. WEINMAN: MS. WASTWEET: MR. WEINMAN: Thanks. This is Heidi. If I still have trouble I'll (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 come back on line and ask you. REVIEW AND DISCUSS CANDIDATE DESIGNS FOR THE 2017 AMERICAN THE BEAUTIFUL QUARTERS PROGRAM - ELLIS ISLAND (STATUTE OF LIBERTY NATIONAL MONUMENT) MS. STAFFORD: So moving on to the Ellis Island Statue of Liberty National Monument for New Jersey. Unfortunately our liaison from the site is not able to be with us today and did not provide a preferred design from this set. However in October when designs were first presented for this site the liaison indicated a variation of design 10 as a preference. I offer that as just a simple reminder to the committee members. For New Jersey designs 01, 01A, 02, 03, 03A, 04, 05, 05A, and 06 feature immigrant families approaching Ellis Island with a mixture of hope and uncertainty. Elements seen in the background of the designs are as follows: design one the interior of the registry room; design 02 the main immigration building; 04 the main immigration building and the ferry terminal, 05 and 05A the hospital building, and design 06 the Ellis Island ferry building. (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 Design 07 depicts the arrival of immigrants to Ellis Island as they descend from a ship to the dock in front of the main immigration depot. The new arrivals show expressions of hopefulness at the prospect of starting their lives in a new country. The Ellis Island hospital is visible in the background. Design 08 depicts a family of European immigrants just after they disembark the transatlantic ship seen in the background. The direction of the wooden dock boards symbolizes the path that will lead them to better lives. Designs 09, 09A, 10 and 10A feature an immigrant family waiting on Ellis Island hoping to be granted entry into the United States. Views of the ferry building and its art deco spire or the main immigration building can be seen in the background. Design 11 depicts an immigrant woman approaching Ellis Island with the hospital building in the background. So again our liaison verified that all our designs were accurate and historically appropriate but (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 did not make a recommendation. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, April. Michael I'd like to pick on you again. MR. MORAN: Oh, thanks, Mary. The whole thing left me cold this time in terms of just looking at each of the individual designs. So I decided to approach it from a different approach. When I think about Ellis Island and what it means. I don't think about the buildings. The buildings are imposing, the architecture is nondescript federal. There is no beauty to them. So I rule out the buildings as any symbol of Ellis Island. I think about the generations that went through there. And generally my impression of my history is that the first generations, the parents actually did not do all that well in the new world. They didn't have the language. capital. They had no money, no It was done for their children, for the second generation. And that is where you saw the success of Ellis Island in terms of America as a melting pot. So that being said I went back through these (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 and the one that answers my concerns and my conclusions what Ellis Island means is number 08. then I went back and looked at it. But It looks like from first blush it looks like the feet of a boy, a teenager, his sister and his little brother. But I'm not sure when you look at Ernest's definition of what he did, he calls it a family. If it is a man in lederhosen we are not going there. So the other problem I have with a lot of these is they are too busy for a quarter. They don't have as lot of good use of negative space here. Again we always have that problem; too much crammed in; there's too much in the background. Shading doesn't get it when it comes to the quarter. And to put a building in in light shade doesn't mean much because it is still going to stamp out and clutter the negative space. So I can be convinced and swayed to do something other but at this point, at this juncture my support goes to number 08. MS. LANNIN: All right. Thank you, Michael. Robert? (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 MR. HOGE: I was impressed with the beauty of these drawings especially in the large format images. These are really spectacular. But I have to agree with Michael that they tend to be on the busy side and then the size of a quarter a great deal of that beauty is going to be lost. I think I would probably like to go with the preference of number 10 simply because it does have a fair amount of negative space. It is a little busy. But I think the promise of the flag which would have been important to these immigrant people is nice in that area too. MS. LANNIN: MR. HOGE: Thank you, Robert. MS. LANNIN: You're welcome. Jeanne? MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Chair. Thank you Madame I had trouble with our last conversation. I couldn't quite control my mute button so I'm hoping you can hear me. Am I coming -- MS. LANNIN: We can hear you just fine. MS. STEVENS-SOLLMAN: Okay. Good. Thank you very much. (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 I am in agreement with Michael where I think the thrust of this coin is about people coming to America. I'm not sure if it is about the buildings. And I would like to know if the liaison has a preference, I guess number 10 is their preference and therefore there really is very little of a building in that design. I spoke to my better half who is an immigrant and I asked him what was important to him when he came. And he felt the flag was really what says America. And I have to agree with him. And so I'm looking at number one and number 01A where we have decidedly immigrants depicted here in the design and we also have the flag. The hint of the building on number one is quite beautiful and I'm wondering if I asked Don or Steve if this is going to be able to be enhanced or does that become too busy in manufacturing this coin in the large metal five ounce silver I think it would be extremely wonderful. In the quarter I am not sure if number one would satisfy our needs. So I'm looking seriously at number 01A as it (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 depicts America, it depicts immigrants coming to this country and I think that is what we need to say about this coin. Number 06 also says a similar thing and we have a building but I think there's too much information for this small field. Thank you. MS. LANNIN: Tom? Thank you, Jeanne. Mr. Uram? MR. URAM: MS. LANNIN: Are you there? MR. URAM: Yes, we are. Okay. Sorry about that. In looking at the designs here I kind of agree also with Jeanne here in that I like that image of 01A because it also looks like they are moving forward, they are moving -- I wanted something kind of with Ellis Island also showing like a struggle, you know the struggle to get here, the reason for being here, and that kind of -- the movement in that I like a lot. I would agree also on the building in some of them. I also kind of leaned toward number 7 (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 because that is showing a little bit of the struggle of a lot of different types of people coming here and it engages you into that. It is nice that the little girl is carrying the basket and the suitcases and things like that. I think that that shows a little bit of a struggle and how what all people came over with and so forth. And then as it relates to number 10 I could see, I think the importance of a flag is real, is important, it's what was just echoed. And I think that for that reason I like 07 but it doesn't have that image in there and maybe instead of the buildings it would have been nice had the flag been waving in the background of that instead of buildings. would have rather seen that. And so I And I think it would have looked great with a flag in the background waving. So with that I think I'm going to go with number 01A with a clean image versus the one being actually in the building. And then number 10 as well the preference. I'd just like to make a comment on number (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 08. I thought it was a nice design and whatever but I think we have the 2007 Little Rock Desegregation Dollar Commemorative that was similar to that. And we also had the 2010 Veterans, Disabled Veterans for Life which had the same type of images and so forth of feet. So I wanted to stay away from that. So with that I'll cast my vote accordingly. Thank you, Madame Chairman. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Tom. Heidi? MS. WASTWEET: Yes, hi. I agree with Mike and Tom's comments about design number 8. We have seen some similar designs with just the feet and it feels a little repetitious with that and also if the father is wearing shorts it is not quite working for me either. So I agree with those previous comments. Now our last meeting about these when we asked the Mint to come back and give us some more designs one of the main things that we said is there was a lot going on for the size of the quarter, they were very busy. And the new designs are also pretty busy which was why I was so happy to see the late (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 addition of number 05A, yeah, 05A. the one that brings it home for me. I think this is If you have this in front of you as opposed to design number 5 the building has been moved away from the group of figures and that little negative space there is really, really important for strikeability and sculptability and readability in the actual size. And I think that that balances the design very well and hits all the points. This coin is not a coin about the history of Ellis Island but Ellis Island as a national park. And when you go to Ellis Island to visit what's left there are the buildings. So I think the buildings are important in this particular aspect because we are commemorating it as a national park, not just the history. And then in this design we have the figures which connect the buildings to the history. And these figures here in design 05A I think they encompass all of those emotions like April said that is a mixture of hope, anticipation and nervousness and fear. And I think these faces show that where design number 01 and 01A we don't see the faces and so for me it lack that (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 emotion. And artistically 05A the way it has the father's face in profile, the mother's face is down and then the boys face is up and the composition of those three figures that go gracefully one into the other. And it incorporates the flag which as Jeanne said is an important symbol for these immigrants not only then but still today. I think this design just hits the nail on the head on all aspects. support it. And I am going to fully That's it. MS. LANNIN: Thanks so much Heidi. Herman? MR. VIOLA: Thank you. I would have to agree these designs all left me very cold and a couple of reasons. Island. One is both my parents came through Ellis My mother was 16 and 13 years later her husband came, he was 17. through. All my aunts and uncles came I never met my grandparents. came separately. The families And growing up they always talked about seeing that Statute of Liberty and how excited they were and that Ellis Island was kind of a new (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 world. And as first generation people they did well and so that the coin is really very important symbolically to I think a lot of people. So having said all that as April explained why you can't have the Statue of Liberty in there because of the conflict over who owns Ellis Island. So having said all that I would say that I'd probably go myself with number 02 or I guess it is number 01A with the flag and the people looking in the foreground. But I also agree with Heidi that I really like 05A and so I'd say both of those get strong support from me. MR. LANNIN: Thank you, Herman. Dennis, you are up. MR. TUCKER: Well, Jeanne and Tom and others have talked about the American flag and I strongly feel that the coin's design needs to include the American flag. As famous as the architecture and the buildings of Ellis Island are there are many viewers, in fact, many American viewers who would not recognize that architecture. universal. However the U.S. flag is Everybody knows what that is and what it (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 represents. Without that context a lot of these designs could really be any general scene of immigration that could be happening anywhere. I like number 01 because anyone who has actually been to Ellis Island and has been inside the registry room will recognize this. dramatic. It is very It is a remarkable space and that is something that people will recognize right away. 01A I think in some ways is not as strong without that background of the registry room but I also recognize that this would be an easier design to coin. However, I think that number 01 would be much more remarkable and exquisite on the five ounce silver round. 05A I think is busy for a quarter size canvas as many of them are as we've noted. I feel that that element of the flag is lost in the details here. But I do like that design. And number 10 I feel communicates the immigrant experience well also focusing on the flag. So I like that one as well. But of all of them I would say number 01 is (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 the one that really impressed me the most. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Dennis. Steve? MR. ROACH: I struggled with this group because virtually every design for me had a but; I like it except for this. For design number 01 and 01A I liked it but for the busyness in 01 and for 01A I don't -- I think it is going to be a challenge to get clearly articulated forms for the two people on the left. It took me a while to understand that she was holding a baby. And I think that is going to be really tough on the quarter. Heidi sold me on 05A. I really like that one because out of everyone it is the one that has an expression of joy. The child seems to be happy to be coming to America. And when I look at 10 I like that design for its formal aspects but I don't get a sense that she is very happy to be here. And it leaves me kind of sad. I like 08 from a formal perspective as well but I feel like the feet motif has been done. So I like 05A but again I'm limited a little (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 bit by the fact that half of it is given to architecture that doesn't say much and doesn't -- if I think of an average person and how they are going to relate to Ellis Island it is going to be about the people and not as much the architecture. MS. LANNIN: Thank you, Steve. I have to admit that my preference initially was 01A because I liked the use of the negative space. It seemed to me that there is a world of possibilities that is out there. I understand that that would make a better quarter than probably the five ounce and for that I think number 01 would be the best five ounce choice. But Heidi really sold me on 05A, you see the sort of the trinity of people, you see a range of emotions, you see a building that is undoubtedly there and would be important to the people that have visited the park and it has got the American flag in it. so Heidi you've convinced me completely. And I'm going to go with 05A. Thank you. So while we are -- Greg when would you like (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 to do the vote for -MR. WEINMAN: Why don't we vote now for Ellis Island unless there are more comments. MS. LANNIN: Okay. Does anyone else have any other comments given what we've all had to say this afternoon? MR. URAM: -- receive my ballot. MR. WEINMAN: I received your ballot, Tom, yes. So if everybody else could now please vote for Ellis Island. a little break. If you don't mind why don't we take Let me calculate that which shouldn't take as long. MS. LANNIN: MR. WEINMAN: Okay. And then we can come back and look at the results of both and take any motions that you may have. MS. LANNIN: All right. (WHEREUPON, a brief recess was taken.) MS. LANNIN: All right. Our break is over and I would now like to ask our Mint counsel, Greg Weinman, to report the results of the revised Effigy (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 Mounds total as well as Ellis Island National Monument. MR. WEINMAN: Actually Ellis Island -- we can -MS. LANNIN: We can do Ellis Island first if -MR. WEINMAN: Why don't you go -- actually I'm delivering -- let's let April report it out here. MS. LANNIN: MS. STAFFORD: All right. April. Design 01 - a total of nine, 01A - 11, 02 - one, 03 and 03A - zero, design 04 - one point, design 05 - zero, 06 - four points, 07 - one point, design 08 - zero, 09 - two points, 09A - zero, design 10 - 12 points, design 10A - zero, design 11 zero, and design 05A with 19 points. MS. LANNIN: Thank you very much. And how are we doing for Effigy Mounds, Greg? MR. WEINMAN: It is ready here. Hold on one second. MS. LANNIN: All right. UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: MS. LANNIN: So 05A stands -- So 05A stands, yes. (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 MR. WEINMAN: MS. LANNIN: I will read off Effigy Mounds. Okay. MR. WEINMAN: We're printing it out as we speak. Design 01 - zero, design 02 - 14, design 03 - six, design 04 - five points, design 05 - one, design 06 - one, design 07 - two, design 08 - one, design 09 - 17, design 10 - two, design 11 - one, design 12 two, design 13 - three, design 14 - three, design 15 two, design 16 - zero, design 17 - zero, design 18 one, design 18A - two, design 18B - two, design 19 one, design 20 - three, design 21 - two, design 22 zero, design 22A - zero, design 22B - zero, design 23 - one. MS. LANNIN: And so out of a possible 27 votes, design number 09 in Effigy Mounds received 17 points and that was the design that was preferred by the liaison. Coming in a very close second was number 14 was the peregrine falcon. And again I would like to comment. I think the falcon is absolutely glorious and perhaps that artist can table that design for a future coin. And to go back to Ellis Island again the (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 winning design was number 05A. salesperson. Heidi was a great And so it was the design that was included extra in our packs that came in number one with 19 points out of 27. number 10. 01A. The next closest was design And the next closest after that was design And design number 10 had been the preferred design initially by the liaison. So does anyone have any motions to make on the designs and on the votes and anything else that they would like to add to these two designs? Are there any motions? MR. MORAN: Mary, just one thing as a point of clarification. MS. LANNIN: MR. MORAN: Sure. You called the peregrine falcon design number 14; it actually was 14 votes for number 02. MS. LANNIN: for correcting me. I'm sorry, did I? Thank you Design number 02 with 14 points came in number two. Did I say that right Michael? MR. MORAN: MS. LANNIN: Yes, you did. Thank you. (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 So any further debate about anything? MS. WASTWEET: Mary? MS. LANNIN: Yes, Jeanne. MS. WASTWEET: This is Jeanne. There is just one question because we have the preferred as number 10 and -MS. LANNIN: Which and you are speaking of - MS. WASTWEET: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I am speaking of Ellis Island. MS. LANNIN: MS. WASTWEET: Okay. And this is the preferred design. MR. WEINMAN: MS. LANNIN: 05A is the preferred. Jeanne so just to clarify the liaison at the site did not issue any preference for this set. MS. WASTWEET: MS. LANNIN: Okay. For informational purposes we reminded the committee members that a variation of 10 was their preference in October so there is not an issue there. (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 MS. WASTWEET: Okay. Okay. One point that I would like to just put on the record is that number 05 is -- 05A is that we've chosen and it is a very good design is wonderful. But should the powers that be choose number 10 we never know once we release our choices what comes back. But is there some way that we could make this child look a little happier if indeed that one was chosen? MS. LANNIN: To make the -- in 10. MS. WASTWEET: The child on number 10 -- MS. LANNIN: saying. Just a comment. Oh, now I see what you are She looks very indifferent. MS. WASTWEET: She does, like why am I here. So I think that this is maybe one reason why this one wasn't put through. very good. I think that our choice of 05A is I'm happy with that. I wish the flag were a little bigger but I think that since this one came in rather close maybe that could be just for the record if this was chosen finally that maybe we make this little girl a little happier. MS. LANNIN: Okay. All right. The next meeting of this committee will be (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 here in Washington, D.C., an all-in meeting on March 15 at United States Headquarters. We have gone from a day and a half meeting I believe to now just a one day meeting just for informational purposes. If there is no further business before the committee I move to adjourn this meeting of the Citizen Coinage Advisory Committee at 2:19 p.m. Thank you. (WHEREUPON, the meeting was adjourned at 2:19 p.m.) (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC I, MICHAEL FARKAS, the officer before whom the foregoing deposition was taken, do hereby certify that the witness whose testimony appears in the foregoing deposition was duly sworn by me; that the testimony of said witness was recorded by me and thereafter reduced to typewriting under my direction; that said deposition is a true record of the testimony given by said witness; that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties to the action in which this deposition was taken; and, further, that I am not a relative or employee of any counsel or attorney employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. _____________________________ Michael Farkas Notary Public in and for the District of Columbia (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016 Capital Reporting Company CCAC Public Meeting, 2/16/2016 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTION I, CHERYL LaSELLE, hereby certify that I am not the Court Reporter who reported the following proceeding and that I have typed the transcript of this proceeding using the Court Reporter's notes and recordings. The foregoing/attached transcript is a true, correct, and complete transcription of said proceeding. _______________ ________________________ Date CHERYL LaSELLE Transcriptionist (866) 488 - DEPO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2016