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1 United States Mint Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Meeting Friday April 19, 2013 The Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee met in Hearing Room 220 South at 801 9th Street, N.W., Washington, D.C., at 9:00 a.m., Gary Marks, Chair, presiding. 2 Members Present: Gary Marks, Chair Erik Jansen Michael Moran Michael Olson Michael A. Ross Donald Scarinci Jeans Stevens-Sollman Thomas J. Uram Heidi Wastweet United States Mint Staff Present Richard A. Peterson, Acting Director Steve Antonucci Betty Birdsong Don Everhart Gwen Mattleman Bill Norton April Stafford Megan Sullivan Greg Weinman Also Present: Kathy Dillaber John Feal Sandy Felt Arthur Houghton Paula Jacobs Laurie Laychak Carole O’Hare* *Participating via telephone 3 Contents Welcome and Call to Order 5 Gary Marks 5 Discussion of Letter and Minutes from Previous Meeting Gary Marks 5 5 Review and Discuss Candidate Reserves Designs for the 2014 Presidential $1 Coin Program 6 April Stafford, Everhart Megan Sullivan, and Don 6 Review and Discuss Candidate Reserves Designs from the Edith Wilson 2013 First Spouse Bullion Coin 23 April Stafford, Everhart Megan Sullivan, and Don 23 Review and Discuss Themes for the 2014 First Spouse Bullion Coin Program 33 April Stafford and Megan Sullivan 33 Review and Discuss Candidate Designs for the Code Talker Recognition Congressional Medal Program (Muscogee Creek Nation) 50 April Stafford, Everhart Betty Birdsong, Approval of the FY12 Annual Report Gary Marks and Don 50 62 62 Resolution 2013-01: Recommending an American Liberty Commemorative Coinage Program 68 Michael Moran 68 Review and Discuss Themes for Fallen Heroes of 9/11 Congressional Gold Medals 83 4 April Stafford 83 Sandy Felt 85 Laurie Laychak 87 Megan Sullivan 88 Carole O'Hare 91 Paula Jacobs 91 Kathy Dillaber 93 Wrap up and Adjourn 101 5 Proceedings (9:12 a.m.) Welcome and Call to Order Gary Marks Chair Marks: Good morning. I am calling this April 19th, 2013 meeting of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee to order. Discussion of Letter and Minutes from Previous Meeting Gary Marks Chair Marks: The first item on the agenda is discussion of the letter and minutes from the March 11, 2013 meeting. Are there any comments, suggestions, additions or deletions for the minutes? Well, the letters are gone but are there any changes? Hearing none, may I have a motion to approve both? Member Jansen: So moved. Chair Marks: Second? Is there a second? Member Olson: Second. Chair Marks: It has been moved and seconded to approved the March 11, 2013 minutes and letters. All those in favor, please indicate by saying aye. (Chorus of ayes.) Chair Marks: Opposed? (No audible response.) Chair Marks: The motion carries. That takes us down to the review and discussion for the candidate designs of the 2014 Presidential $1 Coin Program. And I will recognize April Stafford for our report. 6 April, good morning. Review and Discuss Candidate Reserves Designs for the 2014 Presidential $1 Coin Program April Stafford, Megan Sullivan, and Don Everhart Ms. Stafford: Good morning again. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Background on the 2014 Presidential $1 coin obverse designs it is Public Law 109.145, the Presidential $1 Coin Act of 2005 that requires the Secretary of the Treasury to issue four presidential $1 coins per year, with images emblematic of each president in the order in which they served, with the reverse continuously bearing a dramatic image of the Statue of Liberty. In 2014, we will issue Presidential $1 Coins honoring presidents Warren G. Harding, Calving Coolidge, Herbert Hoover, and Franklin D. Roosevelt. In accordance with the Act, the obverse shall bear the name and likeness of a President of the United States, the order in which that President served and the dates of terms of office of such President. The inscription "In God We Trust" is required on the on the obverse as well. In previous years, we provided three primary source materials to the artists, those being the official White House portraits, the intaglio prints and the United States Mint Presidential Medals. This year, we encouraged artists to use a variety of references in order to create original artwork in addition to using the intaglio prints, the Presidential Medals, and public domain images as source material. So first we will start with the 29th President, Warren G. Harding. We have seven designs for you. Obverse one, two, three, four, five, six, and seven. It is the seventh obverse design that the CFA yesterday recommended. Mr. Chairman, would you like me to go on to the other Presidents or should we wait here for discussion? 7 I'm sorry. Mr. Chairman, should I go on to the other Presidents or would you like to discuss? Chair Marks: Yes, I'm sorry. Let's go ahead and run through all of them. Ms. Stafford: Okay. So next we have the 30th President, Calvin Coolidge. For you we have five obverse designs, Obverse one, two, three, four, and five. It is this fifth obverse design that is preferred by the CFA. The 31st President, Herbert Hoover. We have for you seven designs, Obverse one, two, three, four, five -- this fifth design was preferred by the CFA yesterday, recommended -- six, and seven. And lastly we have our 32nd President, Franklin D. Roosevelt. We have a total of eight designs, Obverse one, two -- the second design was preferred by the CFA yesterday -- three, four, five, six, seven, and eight. That's it, Mr. Chairman. Chair Marks: Okay, thank you. Before we launch into our design discussions, are there any technical questions members would like to ask the staff about what you have seen? (No audible response.) Chair Marks: Okay, I guess we know everything we want to know. Okay, so with that, then I am going to go ahead and I am going to recognize Michael Olsen for his comments and then we will just move around the table. As has become our practice, we are going to run through an initial review of the designs and I will ask for indications from members that there is interest in each design and if there is not, we will set it aside and that should speed our discussion today. Okay, so we will start with Warren Harding. Is 8 everyone looking at their designs? Is there interest in design number one? We'll set that one aside. Number two? Set that aside. Number three? Member Jansen: Yes. Chair Marks: We're keeping three. Number four? Set that one aside. Number five? Put that one aside. Six? Member Wastweet: Yes. Chair Marks: Did I hear a yes? Member Wastweet: Yes. Chair Marks: Okay, we are keeping six. Number seven? Member Jansen: Yes. Chair Marks: Okay, keeping seven. Okay, so our continued discussion will focus on three, six, and seven. The others we will not consider further. Moving now to Calvin Coolidge. Number one? No interest. I will set that aside. Number two, any interest in two? Set that aside. Three? Member Jansen: Yes. Chair Marks: Keeping three. Four? Member Jansen: Yes. Chair Marks: Keeping four. Five? Member Jansen: Yes. Chair Marks: And we have five. So, we will continue to consider three, four, and five for Calvin Coolidge. Moving to Herbert Hoover, number one. I will set that one aside. Number two? 9 Member Jansen: Yes. Chair Marks: We are keeping number two. Three? I will set that aside. Four? Set that one aside also. Five? Member Jansen: Yes. Chair Marks: Keeping five. Six? Member Ross: Gary, I would like to go back to one -- I like one. Chair Marks: You want one? Member Ross: Yes. Chair Marks: Okay, I am going to put one back in the further consideration pile. Number six? Set six aside. Seven? And I am putting number seven aside. That leaves us to further consider one, two, and five for Herbert Hoover. Now to Franklin Roosevelt, number one? Member Olson: Yes. Chair Marks: Keeping one. Two? Member Wastweet: Yes. Chair Marks: Yes? Keeping two. Three? I will set that one aside. Four? Setting aside. Five? Setting aside as well. Six? (Chorus of yeses.) Chair Marks: Keeping six. Seven? Seven, yes. Eight? Setting eight aside. That leaves us to consider one, two, six, and seven. And the others we will not consider further. 10 Okay, I believe we are ready to start our discussion. So I will first go to Michael Olson. Member Olson: Okay, thanks, Gary. On the Harding designs, it looks like this committee selected the three that I would be most likely to consider. I did want to make a comment that not only on President Harding but on several of these other designs that we are presented with, it looks like the President is having a bad day. And I am not sure why that is but it just looks like several of these images show a grumpy demeanor. But with that said, on Harding, number three lends itself well. Number six is just maybe the way it is drawn, it doesn't show a bold image. My preference, however, would be for number seven. There was talk at the CFA meeting yesterday regarding the congruence of the bottom of the President's shoulder or chest with the lettering along the edge. I think there was some discussion, Don, that you had indicated that that might just be an oversight that could be rectified. Mr. Everhart: It almost looks like it was not intended. So we can make it concentric, no problem. Member Olson: If that was important committee, I just wanted to point that out. to the Chair Marks: On seven? Member Olson: Yes, on seven. All right, moving on to Coolidge, I checked the presidential website and from what I was able to determine, number five looks the most like what is presented on the presidential website. So that is the one that I will be favoring. Moving on to Herbert Hoover, so I want to say Herbert Hoover is the only president from IOW, as of this point. He and his wife were both born in 11 Iowa. He in West Branch, Iowa, and his wife, Lou Henry in my hometown of Waterloo, Iowa. So I have an intense interest in this and I have spoken with the officials and the Presidential Library to solicit their opinion on what would look good here. I have received some photographs from the presidential library that they deem to be representative of the image of President Hoover. And with that being said, number five comes closest to what I have been given and that also appears to -- when you look at the Presidential website, it also appears to be a good image of him. So that is the one that I am going to be supporting. Moving on to Roosevelt, it looks like we are looking at four designs here. Number one does not have a lot of appeal to me. Number two, however, does look the most like when you think of Franklin Roosevelt, that is what I remember him looking like from pictures that I have seen in number two. Number six is an inspiring design. It is a little bit different than what I think the committee has seen in the past. He is actually looking upward. There is certainly some appeal there and it will probably get some support from me. Number seven, he looks a little bit confused in that portrayal and it just, to me, doesn't quite look like President Roosevelt. So my votes will be going to two and to six. That concludes my comments. Chair Marks: Thank you, Michael. We'll go to Donald, then. Member Scarinci: I would like to hear what Mike Ross has to say but, in general, I want to hear about two specific things from Mike, if you don't mind. One, we have always taken the position that this series and in every coin except for one, that the Secretary chose to go with the Andrew Jackson image that was not from his presidency, except for that, every single one of the coins in the series is of the President during -- it is what they looked like during their presidency. And I think that is an 12 important thing for us to maintain in the series. And if we are ever going to deviate from that, it should be the Secretary of the Treasury himself who makes that decision, in my opinion. With that being said, assuming that the first -- that up to Roosevelt the CFA's choices are of the President during the time of their presidency, which my amateur scholarship is going to say yes, I agree with the CFA's recommendation on everything except for the Roosevelt one. And on the Roosevelt one, the reason people -- the reason CFA and the reason people, I am sure, like number two is because that is what you see. That is everyone's -- that is what the man looks like in the contemporary culture because that is the image of the man you see. I am very attracted to the Roosevelt with glasses, the mature, at the end of his presidency Roosevelt who has just weathered probably the toughest presidency since Lincoln. So I think showing him in all of that maturity with all of that burden of the nation having worn on him with glasses, which is not how he is really ever depicted, I think is a real tribute to the man and a statement about the Office of the Presidency of the United States. So I would love to hear, not to put Mike on the spot, but I would love to hear a little bit more about the Roosevelt with glasses. And as to the others what the CFA recommended, as long as it is historically correct, I think they pretty much picked the right ones. Okay, I'm done. Chair Marks: Michael Ross. Member Ross: Thanks, Don. Starting with Harding, I am sorry that in all of these Hardings looking so glum, essentially the only reason Harding was elected President is because he was genial and it was a contrast to the stiff Wilson as they came out of an angry period in American history. And he spent his time in the White House throwing 13 liquor-fueled philandering. him smiling House lawn President. poker parties during prohibition and But the most iconic images of him are and doing silly things on the White and here we have a very serious I'm sorry but I would like to put coin -- no offense to the artist, but I would like to put coin two in nomination for the Carson from Downton Abbey commemorative coin. But three and seven are the ones that look most like Harding if he was trying to look serious. So I would probably go with one of those two. On Calvin Coolidge, I think five is the most accurate representation of Silent Cow. His forehead wasn't that big. And then on Hoover, this is where Don has reminded me that we probably want to go with the image of Hoover as President, which is a shame because Hoover was actually an extraordinarily dynamic man who had the misfortune of being President as the Depression sets in, one. And two, sort of reflect the Hoover that Americans loved who was in charge of the food relief after World War I in Europe and was considered kind of an up in the boots chaps figure, son of a blacksmith. And the Hoover, the can-do Hoover is one and the ones that look like his presidency are things are collapsing around him are the ones that five and seven are our Hoover whose name is going to become infamous. And then on Roosevelt, I think that Don's got an interesting point on the Roosevelt with glasses, the mature Roosevelt, although Roosevelt, by the end of his term was not just looking mature, he was looking weathered and beat up after all he had been through in three and a half terms. So I sort of like to, Don, it is the empathetic Roosevelt of the new deal, not the defeated Roosevelt at the end of -- defeat is the wrong term but the grizzled Roosevelt at the end of his term. 14 But I like one as well. Chair Marks: Are you done? Member Ross: Yes. Chair Marks: Thank you. Okay, we will go over to Tom Uram. Member Uram: Okay, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I kind of agree with all the comments so far, and particularly with the first one there. Harding I also agreed with style seven or design three as well with those depictions. Those would be the two that I would consider there. On the Coolidge, I, too, am thinking of number three and number five because of the stylistic of either one in those considerations. And what has been already said regarding the look here of Herbert Hoover, I kind of am leaning more towards number five than anything in regards to that. It could go either way with five or number one, but leaning towards them. The interesting thing on the last one here with Franklin Roosevelt, you know obviously number two looking like the dime. And you know, keep this a little bit light, we get a number of people saying that our dollars look like quarters and I don't want the dollar to look like a dime. But I appreciate that design and we have had it forever. And I also like the forward-looking design of number six. It is optimistic, it is forward looking. But Don's consideration of number one is kind of an interesting approach with the glasses and where he was in his presidency at that time. So if I feel that way about number two, I would kind of would make the same suggestion on number six. But I think that number one might be a good alternative, as it relates to the dollar design. Thank you. 15 Chair Marks: Thank you, Tom. We'll go to Jeanne. Member Stevens-Sollman: I agree also with most of the comments that have already been stated. However, when I did my research, I was very much impressed with Harding's eyebrows. This was such a distinct characteristic for him. And where seven is, in my opinion, convincing and I agree with what the CFA said, I do believe that number six, in my opinion, represents his characteristics the most. Number three does also but if you go and look at some photographs of Harding, he really has his distinct eyebrows which I liked that representation. Oh, I'm sorry. Mr. Coolidge was also a difficult one for me to know. I didn't know what he looked like. So again, I went and did some research and I found that number four, although it is kind of a portrait, most in my opinion, resembled Calvin Coolidge. And because we have only portraits to look at, we don't have designs to choose from, I have to go with what I believe the artist represented when that person drew this portrait. I think it is very difficult for an artist to work from another artist's drawings or paintings. You are getting an interpretation of an interpretation. So I was more inclined to look at the photographs of the Presidents, rather than the source of the painting or the etching or whatever. I think it is a compliment to the artist who went directly to the photograph and really tried to represent him. So therefore, number four does that for me. Herbert Hoover, again we are looking at interpretations and I liked number one because of the different angle that we are looking at this man. I think so many times we have a head-on shot, again, we are looking at only photographs and only portrait drawings. And he is done a little differently. He also looks like himself. So I am definitely moved by that one because of the different interpretation and angle. So thank you for giving us this change. And Franklin D. Roosevelt is probably the one that I 16 actually knew in terms of always seeing his photographs hanging in family residences. So I have to agree that number one is very statesmen, very presidential, very wise. However, when I go and look at number six, this also represents Roosevelt during his presidency, when he was beginning, when he was really trying so hard to make America work. And so I have a difficulty trying to decide between one and six. In my opinion, they both give us what he was to the United States. Thank you. Chair Marks: Thank you, Jeanne. We'll go to Mr. Moran. Member Moran: Harding probably caused me the most problems. He presents that solid, solemn image in all of these photographs and yet we all know what he was, the original party animal. And there is some issues with the shoulder and the slope in number three, but when you look at the photographs and, as Jeanne pointed out, the heavy eyebrows, the chin, the whole facial features, I thought at least for the face number three hit it well, although I am certainly not opposed to the others in terms of what Harding really was in terms of these representations. Turning to Calvin Coolidge, again I agree with Jeanne on this, that it is number four. I looked, as she did, at the various photographs of him. I think the receding hairline and the thinness of the hair across the top, the high forehead, as well as the fact that they got the face right, four is going to get my vote there. Hoover, I quite frankly like number one and number two. He was a victim of his times in terms of his presidency. I think he deserves a little bit more of a fair shake. On the other hand, Mike Olson made the comment that number five was the preference of the people from the library or was close to what they were suggesting. So I am torn. I would say I am probably going to split my vote on that one. 17 Roosevelt, we have had enough of the dime. We can surely come up with a different image. While I don't like his economic policies, I know that he was certainly an inspirational leader for bad times in the 30s and I would prefer to remember him as number six than as number one. And number six would get my vote there. Chair Marks: Thank you, Mike. And we will move to Heidi. Member Olson: Mr. Chairman, I would like to just make a clarification. What I indicated in my comments was I solicited input from the Presidential Library. They provided me with pictures. They were not shown these pictures before the meeting. Member Moran: My bad. I put words in your mouth, Mike. Member Olson: That's okay. Chair Marks: Well thank you for the correction. Okay, Heidi. Member Wastweet: For Harding, all three of these selections are pretty close to the same and I don't have a strong preference. I too, as Jeanne, I was looking at the eyebrows but I think the eyebrows in seven are the most accurate. They have the peak to the shape. So I am leaning toward number seven. But I do have a strong preference about the delineation at the bottom of the portrait as it lines up with the text. The CFA felt that that should be more concentric with the text but I feel that this was the artist's intention to pull it away from the text as a design element and I strongly feel that we should keep it that way. I think it adds a little interest. This whole series, overall, there is no much variation. So what little variation we can find, I think we should hang on to. And so in this particular piece, that is the variation that I am seeing and I 18 like that and I would vote to keep it as I believe it was intended. For Coolidge, I am torn on this one. I don't have a preference here and I am just going to defer to what the others have said. I have nothing really to add to those. On Hoover, I strongly agree with Jeanne on Hoover. On number one I think that is an excellent point about being offered a different angle. We are looking down on him a little bit so it gives a different dynamic to the portrait. We see more of the shoulders. Again, I am looking for things that differentiate each of these designs from each other, so we don't end up with a series that all looks identical and I think design number one is giving us that variation. I think it is going to reproduce well as a sculpture. It gives a very definite definition to the jaw line, whereas number five, the CFA favorite, doesn't have as distinct of a jaw line. So I think number one would translate very well to a sculpture. For Roosevelt, I agree with Donald. I have a strong preference for number one and again, I am looking for that differentiation. And the glasses, to me, add a lot of interest. It sets it aside from the other portraits that we have seen. It adds texture to the sculpture. It adds a clean, sharp detail that I think is going to show up very well on the coin. I like the age to his face, the character, all of this is going to sculpt very well. So I have a strong preference for number one. And that's it. Chair Marks: Thank you, Heidi. Erik? Member Jansen: I would like to reiterate a number of Heidi's comments. Before I do that, for some reason I am finding it especially important in these to put aside the difference in styles. That is, the artist, some of them with high contrast, some of them with softer contrast. Those kind of differences will disappear in the sculpting process. 19 So I would encourage everyone to just check their perception here and make sure you are not choosing contrast over content. On the Harding name, in particular, I come out really favoring number three because I think it has a stronger jaw line than seven and I think it may come out with a more striking portrait. It is the closest along the seven to the kind of iconic Harding image. It is a little unfortunate, I think, echoing some of the comments earlier about maybe missing the man's character. When it comes to Calvin Coolidge, again, I am going to favor three over five. And it is, again, because of the stronger or the more detailed kind of jaw profile. Number five just looks a little bit too averaged out to me, a little too smooth, a little too perfect. So I am actually going to lean heavier on design number three. When it comes to Herbert Hoover, I have been turned on this one. I am going to vote strongly for number one. I think it is that slightly different perspective, which will make the coin stand out from the boredom that we can sink into on a series like this. At the same time, I also want to pick a coin or a portrait rather that has the likeness. So I am torn. But I think I am going to put my weight behind number one. And finally on Roosevelt, sorry guys, I am going to make it look like a dime. I'm supporting number two. (Laughter.) Chair Marks: Thank you, Erik. Member Jansen: Because I honestly think collectors will value that, the recognizability of two really works. And I have got to think design number one, quite honestly, makes me think is Wilson back in 20 office. Chair Marks: Thank you. Okay, I will round out this discussion and looking at Harding, I favor number seven. Some of these I am not going to have a lot of comments on because it would just be redundant for all of what you said. So, moving to Coolidge, I like number five. And as I go through these, I want to encourage all of you, you already have all gone on the record but before you turn in your voting sheet, do me a favor, look at the images that you have picked on the big tear sheet that has in the lower right-hand corner the actual size. Please do that for me because I think you may find there are some differences. I think we get all too comfortable looking at these larger images in thinking that that is what it is going to look like on the coin. Size does make a difference. And saying that, to me, the best example of that -well close to the best example, is if we look at the Hoover number one, to me when I look at it in small size, he looks like Bugsy. Member Jansen: Amen. Chair Marks: I expect right off the coin there should be a Tommy gun. Member Jansen: Amen. That is the same thing I thought. Chair Marks: That is what hits me with that image and I don't think I will be alone in the general populace with that feeling because it has that Roaring Twenties kind of look of hey I got a Tommy gun right here under my coat. You know, don't mess with me. And I would like to be a little more respectful in our selection. So, give that some consideration. And with that, I am going to support number five. It is instructive to me that perhaps the Presidential Library indicates that this may be one that knowing they haven't seen the design, this may be one that 21 they would support. It is probably the one I would have supported anyway. And then if we move to FDR, again, if you look at the small version of number one, I think it is beautiful. I mean as much as I didn't like one for Hoover, one for FDR I think is very well suited the size of the coin. It really has some crispness to it to me. So I think that would produce a really nice image of FDR. I had given some consideration to number seven but number seven comes off too familiar with other images for other Presidents that we have done. And I think it is important when we have an opportunity to reach for distinction on each of these Presidents so that there is something unique about the image on the coin, if we can reach for that sort of thing. So I would encourage you to, with me, support number one. Okay, that concludes our discussion. Before I ask you to turn in your scoring sheets, I want to ask if there is any quick follow-ups. Heidi. Member Wastweet: I just want to comment that we have on our tables comments that were written by Michael Bugeja, if you want to refer to that before you make your final decision. Chair Marks: Yes, thank you. Thank you for mentioning that. In fact, I have a question for legal counsel. Mr. Weinman: Sure. Chair Marks: Mr. Bugeja did provide to us his written comments to some detail on each of the designs. Is it within the proper procedure to ask that those be made a part of the record? Mr. Weinman: You can. Obviously, he can't vote. He's not here. 22 Chair Marks: Right. Mr. Weinman: But any member is welcome to consider his comments as they -- as you make your recommendations. You, as Chair, you can ask that anything be made part of the record. So there is nothing inappropriate about you asking that it be put in the record. Chair Marks: Okay, then I would ask for his remarks to be put in the official record and I would encourage other members and certainly you don't have to do this but if there are meetings you can't make, your ideas and comments about the designs are important, whether you are here or not. I wouldn't want to have some sort of vote in absentia because, as we all have experienced, once you are here and you hear what the other members have to say, often it changes your ideas. But I think it is important to encourage the comments, even if the person is not here. So if you have had a chance to look those over, I think he has some good points to make. So are there any other follow-ups before we move on? Okay, well seeing that there aren't, I will ask you to finish your scoring sheets and pass those into Mr. Jansen. And that now takes us down on our agenda to the review and discussion of our candidate reverse designs for the Edith Wilson 2013 First Spouse Bullion Coin. April? 23 Review and Discuss Candidate Reserves Designs from the Edith Wilson 2013 First Spouse Bullion Coin April Stafford, Megan Sullivan, and Don Everhart Ms. Stafford: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, you noted when we were reviewing the Presidential $1 Coin designs that you found it helpful to review the sized images. Would it be helpful if in the future our team included a contact sheet with those designs at size? Chair Marks: Yes, it would. Ms. Stafford: Okay, so we will do that in the future. Chair Marks: That is a great idea. Thank you. Ms. Stafford: Okay, great. No problem. So when last we met, the committee requested new designs for the Edith Wilson coin and medal reverse. So we are here again to show a total of three obverse designs which the committee viewed at the last meeting and eight reverse designs. We can submit for the record the background information regarding this program's requirements. So there are obverse candidate designs, which you commented upon last time but just for reference, we will show them again. Both this committee, as well as the CFA preferred obverse three. So for the First Spouse gold coin and bronze medal candidate designs, we pause for -- there we go. Again, three obverse candidate designs, obverse one, two, and three, the preferred obverse. And the reverses, we have eight candidate designs for your review, four that were previously presented, one updated design for your recommendations and three new designs. Reverses one and two are designs previously submitted to this committee. Both show Edith Wilson assisting President Wilson during the remainder of his presidency following his stroke. 24 She described this period as her stewardship and in these images, she helps him manage his paperwork. We have reverse one. At yesterday's commission meeting, it is this design that the CFA recommended. They did note modifications to simplify the design, such as removing the doorway and looking again at the office materials on his desk. Reverse two. And for reverse two-A, this is a variation of reverse two, the artist changed Mrs. Wilson's dress. Reverse three was previously considered as well. Here Edith Wilson was the first woman to drive an electric car in Washington, D.C. Reverse four, another reverse previously considered. In this design, Edith Wilson launches the freighter Quistconck from Hog Island, Pennsylvania. The remaining designs are all new. Reverse five shows President Wilson's right hand holding his cane, while Edith Wilson's left hand rests warmly on his. Reverse six, Edith Wilson assists her husband with the paperwork of the presidency. She holds his inkwell and steadies his paper as he writes. And reverse seven, again, Edith Wilson assisting her husband with the paperwork of the presidency. We also have here a Navajo code talker to pass around so you can reference it for size - - sorry. For the upcoming -- I apologize. It's for the code talker. Sorry about that. Okay, so that is the conclusion of our reverse design. Chair Marks: Okay. Before I ask for technical questions, I want to kind of -- I want to go over some I guess past history on this design. At the last meeting in March, the committee recommended the obverse for Edith Wilson number 25 three. And it was a vote of 18 of 24 possible. My view of this is we don't need to look at these obverse designs again. I don't know why we would. I think that that was a strong indication from the committee. I wouldn't believe that it would significantly change. So in the interest of time, I would like to propose that we dispose of the obverse and rely on our past decision. Member Olson: So moved. Chair Marks: I don't think I even want to take a motion on it. But on the record, I just want it to reflect that we stand by our recommendation for obverse three. Okay, so then that brings me down to my next comment about some history as it relates to the reverse. We had a unanimous vote asking the Mint to bring back to us specifically designs that addressed the role that Edith played in assisting the President in the aftermath of his stroke. And with that in mind, I would like to suggest that that immediately eliminates from our consideration three, four, and then because we have already considered them and did not want to go with them for the theme that we desired, number one and two. I am suggesting one, two, three, and four. That is leaving two-A on the table for consideration but one, two, three, and four, I am suggesting that we simply set those aside. Heidi? Member Wastweet: I ask that we keep number one specifically just because the CFA recommended that one. So I think we should discuss it. Chair Marks: Okay, out of respect for CFA, we can include number one in the mix. So rather than going through our normal culling here, I believe what we need to talk about now as a 26 committee would be number one, two-A, five, six, and seven. Okay? So with that, are there any technical questions for the staff regarding the Edith Wilson coin? Okay, hearing none, I will ask Mr. Jansen to begin our discussion. Member Jansen: I was a little surprised sitting through the CFA meeting yesterday that design number five didn't get a word of comment. It doesn't follow this prescriptive stood by his side, blah, blah, blah but it is an image. It is a symbol. And I think it begs the observer to say there is something more to this than just a wife's hand on a husband's. I think it is a powerful simple image that begs the observer to ask for more, which to me is an awesome design that achieves that. If that one doesn't fly in your mind, I would encourage you to eliminate the rest, save potentially design number six. It actually achieves the goal. I do have to compliment the artist in number six. The rendering of the President here is, he looks totally disabled. And there is a lot of detail her that might not be necessary. And perhaps that could be taken out of the design. The bookcases and so forth, I think, are a distraction, which would fill the field and to avoid some negative space. But I find it difficult to choose any other candidate here. Chair Marks: Thank you, Erik. Heidi? Member Wastweet: I, too, am drawn to number five and seven for the reason that they are more symbolic, which is what we asked for. I am not a fan of having a double portrait because then you have the challenge of matching the portrait on the obverse and making sure it is the same portrait on the reverse and if there is a difference, it really stands out. 27 And design number six specifically that face does not match the obverse that we have already chosen. Plus I think the background is very busy. Design number one is the preference of CFA and they suggested removing the door in the background. I still think that this pose isn't really giving a true vision of what her role was as steward. Again, she looks just like an assistant, rather than a true helpmate. Number five, I think is a really nice simple design and it shows the caring nature of their partnership. I also liked design number seven because it shows, as he is writing and his health is failing at the end of his signature, she is there to lend her hand to his. And I think that is an effective symbology as well. So I wait to hear the other comments about five and seven. I like both of those. Chair Marks: Thank you, Heidi. Michael? Member Moran: Well first off, I didn't go to the CFA meeting yesterday and I think we, as a group, need to stop going to the CFA meetings because that is all I have heard this morning. They have their opinion. They are entitled to it. We have ours and the Mint has to juggle them sometimes. I think that is the way it needs to stay. As to the specific designs here, as I was going through them -- actually before I went through them, I thought what are they going to do that gets away from a darn storyboard, which I think everybody here hates by now, that gives a symbol of his dependency upon her, his being feeble and her lending strength? And when I flipped through and got to number five, I went, damn, that is good. I really did. And I feel like that is the design we need to go with. There is emotion expressed in this that I think will come out in the design of the coin very well. You will understand it. You will get it right away. Make sure that that wedding ring, when you 28 actually do the engraving is in there strong because it is a symbol of their bond. Seven is good as well but it is not as strongly apparent that the helping hand is the female hand there, as it is in number five. I am just all over number five. Chair Marks: Okay, Jeanne? Member Stevens-Sollman: Thank you. I have to agree with my colleagues. To look at number one, I think this is a good helping depiction. I think the artist that did address the fact that his shoulder is sloping, that he is infirmed a bit. Number five, this is what we have been asking is some simplicity. I was struck also by the fact that this is a helping hand. The only thing that I get a -I am hoping that it depicts that she is helping him. It is a little disconcerting when you are working with an elder who is walking with a cane. That is kind of not the right thing you do. I am hoping that people understand that this is just an element of caring and touching and that the support is not to help him move that cane. That is the only thing that bothers me about that imagery. And, therefore, when I go to number seven, I don't have to have -- I don't have any problem with that kind of debilitation. And number seven seems to be what we have asked for, some simplicity. I do see that it is a feminine hand reaching down there. The lace around her wrist indicates so and the cuff on the President definitely indicates his hand. Like Heidi, I am hard-pressed to make a choice. That is my opinion. Thank you. Chair Marks: Tom? Member Uram: Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I, originally, from the last meeting, liked design number one. And I think we had suggested that it is just too bad that she wasn't professionally dressed like in number six. I think that is what we were looking at 29 as it related to number one from our first discussion last month, even the design in two- A with the way she was dressed. But having listened to some of the comments in regarding to having two portraits I think is a viable consideration. And therefore, I do like design number six a lot. I think it is exactly the image but if we don't want two portraits, then I, too, would lean towards number five and number seven. In respect to the masculine looking hand that Mike had mentioned, maybe that hand could be softened up a little bit and maybe a little bit more of the cuff that is coming down as it starts there around 11:00, maybe that could come down and soften that up a little bit. And I think it would be a very -- I would lean towards that a little bit more over the cane approach but I think both are well done. Thank you. Chair Marks: Thank you, Tom. We will circle over to Mike Ross. Member Ross: Okay, design number one comes from what is sort of an iconic but not dynamic photo of that moment, of the stewardship where she is actually, to a certain extent, running the presidency. And that is the photo that you see in the textbooks. That is the photo that people build into PowerPoints and it is a very literal depiction of what is going on. When I opened this, five and seven really jumped out at me because I wanted something to show that this is -- if we want a First Lady who is doing something, she was certainly doing something and seven conveyed that. Again, two-A looks like she is snooping on what he is writing, rather than kind of directing the action but seven does that. But then I looked at five and while it is not conveying that she ran the White House after his stroke, it is conveying that he has had a stroke and she is the one that is caring for him and dealing 30 with him every day. I think that image would lead, as Erik said, would lead people to ask more questions about what went on during that period. So five and seven are great. Six, I am not so happy about because Wilson did not look disabled, despite his stroke. He became very -- somewhat mean-spirited and inner-directed. But if you saw the photos of him, he didn't look disabled. So I think five, seven it is a horse race. Chair Marks: Thank you, Mike. Donald? Member Scarinci: First, I want to thank the Mint for having listened to us and heard our request and come back to us and taken the time and taken the effort to come up with new designs. And I think I speak for everyone here that we appreciate it very, very much. I think that design number five is really everything we have been asking for. And I think starting from the look of it. I mean, it is a sketch and we shouldn't at all judge what it will look like after it has been sculpted, based upon the sketch. And that is something we have kind of been weaned to look at these sketches and, if you are -- past people at the Mint would tell us with pride how great it is that all the sketches look alike and that they spend so much time and attention on the sketches. And we always used to say to them, well we can envision what these things look like and the sculpt will be different than the sketch and we don't need to have like these great sketches. We can look beyond on that. And I think the potential of this design on metal would be spectacular, number one. Number two, we tell the Mint, we tell the artists, please communicate. Give us an image that communicates. Don't give us a picture on a piece of metal. Don't copy something or don't give us something that is just a realistic depiction of something that everybody could see if they just open a book or go on the internet. Give us something creative. Give us 31 something original. Give something powerful that is going to move you as a piece of sculpture. We got it. And we certainly got it -- even if you don't like the design, we have got the attempt at it. And it is a good attempt, even if you don't like any of the specific components of the design. It is a powerful image. It is not something that you are going to go on the internet and find, look up and find. It is original and that is what we are asking for. And I really think a lot about how we are communicating or not communicating when we try to say to artists depict things in a new and modern way. What exactly does that mean? It certainly doesn't mean we want to go back to antiquity and have images of figures with draped clothing and robes and flowing hair. That is certainly not what we mean. When you talk about allegory and when you talk about and maybe the use of the word allegory is the wrong word. Maybe we are saying something else really. But I think that what it is we are saying is depicted in the simplicity, the starkness, the power of an image. And this is that image. So in my mind, obviously I am not only supporting five but I am urging that we all get behind it and send the message to the artist that yes, this is what we are talking about. This is what we want to see more of and this is what you should be thinking about. Do things this way. Don't give us pictures on metal. That is just, honestly, not art. So anyway, that is my comment. Chair Marks: Thank you, Donald. Mr. Olson? Member Olson: That is a hard act to follow. Yes, number five I had the same sentiments that Don and others have shared. It does want you to learn more. It does prompt you to want to learn more. It is not a picture that is specifically describes what we are talking about here. 32 I will be supporting number five. Chair Marks: Thank you, Mike. And again, I will finish the discussion. And I will just make some comments on five and seven. There has been significant discussion about both of those already. So the fact that they are more of the symbolic images that we have been asking for, I will remind those who were around at the time that in 2009 the Mint responded to our request that we receive more symbolic images with the second aspect of the cent reverse and we were provided with an image of Lincoln's hand teaching himself to write. And I am disappointed that we didn't pick it. I believe that I supported it at the time but the committee did not. And there was another coin that we had a hand image, at least one other cents, and the specifics of that one fail me at this moment. But I would like to encourage us to look at much consideration to five and seven and my preference over the two would be number five and I will tell you why. I think that on the coin itself and I am going to harp on this, I am going to ask you to look at the small images, number five on a small coin it is a large image. There is a lot of gray negative space here, so there is balance in this image that is symbolic. Given the coin that it is and the confines that are on it design-wise with a template, it is probably very close to the best I think we could do as far as modern design, again, with limitations that are on template for this series. And then there has been some comments about number five that maybe the hands need to be altered to make more feminine or whatever. Again, look at the small image. I think that as they sculpt this thing and it shrunk down to the size of the coin, a lot of those concerns disappear. And I think that we are on the record already expressing those concerns. Don is here. He has heard those. I am sure that is something that can be addressed in the sculpt. 33 Again, look at the small image, folks. A lot of those technical issues that we have addressed in our discussion here, I think they disappear. So I would even hope that we don't have to go through a motion afterwards. If you will, if that is what you want to do, then fine but I don't think we need to. And I would hope that we would support number five and that would be our recommendation. So with that, are there any follow-up comments before we wrap this one up? Okay, well then I will ask you to score your sheets, pass those in to Erik. And at this time, we will move to the review and discussion for the candidate designs of the Code Talker Recognition Congressional Gold Medal Program for the Muscogee Creek Nation. April. Ms. Stafford: So next on the agenda is the themes for the 2014 First Spouse. Did you want to -Chair Marks: Oh, did I skip? My apologies. Ms. Stafford: Okay. It's because I passed you the Navajo code talkers earlier. So you were primed for that. Chair Marks: The Chair is embarrassed. Thank you. I am going to back up and let's go to review and discuss themes for the 2014 First Spouse Bullion Coin Program. In my enthusiasm to move the meeting along, I wanted to move it along. Anyway, thank you, April. Review and Discuss Themes for the 2014 First Spouse Bullion Coin Program April Stafford and Megan Sullivan Ms. Stafford: I understand. So the four first spouses will be honored by this program in 2014, Florence Harding, Grace Coolidge, Lou Hoover, and Eleanor Roosevelt. In previous years, our artists will provided with specific 34 narratives from which to create their designs. But beginning in 2013, they were instead provided with background material and also permitted to develop designs based on themes not specifically provided in the background material. The material that you have in front of you is based on discussions with the National First Lady's Library and other historians. In the interest of time we obviously don't need to go through each of them, as I know you reviewed them prior to the meeting. But based on the background material that has been aggregated, we welcome any suggestions of additions or subtractions from the material. Chair Marks: Thank you, April. Okay, I trust that we have all had a chance to look through the material. You know, I want to thank the staff, our support staff for you continued great support of us. There was a time when we didn't have these opportunities to weigh in at the front end of this process. And this is just so valuable to me as member. I know it is valuable to all of you. And so I just want to make sure our appreciation is expressed to the staff for the changes that have been made. So with that, who would like to start off the discussion on the background information for these first spouses? Professor Ross, would you like to enlighten us? Member Ross: Sure. Chair Marks: I'm sure you have a wealth of information for us. Member Ross: A wealth is an exaggeration. Which one are we starting with, Florence Harding? Chair Marks: Florence Harding. Member Ross: Okay, I do think these narratives are improving because again we appear to be searching the record for things of substance that various first ladies did, rather than decorating the White House, 35 or planting things, or hostessing. So I would essentially say on Florence Harding, who was kind of celebrated newspaper woman who is quite politically astute that we cut the First Lady elect to fly in an airplane and the first to use the power of the press, including photo ops to campaign for her husband. Well actually, the first to use the power of the press seems okay but go with things of substance. Grace Coolidge, that is a tough one because like her husband, they were very reserved people and she seems to be kind of the last of the old school first ladies who is trying to just stay out of the way. And I love the work she did with the deaf. That was pre her time in the White House. So that is a tricky one. But then Lou Hoover and Eleanor Roosevelt, if we take either one of those and have them planting bushes, I will resign. (Laughter.) Member Ross: But I do think that within the narratives that are here are lots of things that would work. I think these narratives are better. I would have enhanced them with even more substance but I do think they have attempted to choose some things of substance that could show up well on the coin. Mr. Weinman: Mr. Chairman? Just one comment and clarification. On our part, there is no requirement that we restrict the designs to their time in the White House. So that is not an issue in itself. Member Ross: Really? Mr. Weinman: That is correct. It is the life and work of the first spouse. Member Ross: If it is the life and work of the first spouse, then I think we have really done a 36 disservice to some former first ladies as well who did a number of things outside of the White House that were worth representing on coins besides hostessing. So I think even with Grace Coolidge, you could do her work with the deaf on the coin. Chair Marks: Thank you. Any other comments? Okay, someone else? I don't think I am going to go down the line but Michael Moran. Member Moran: I, too, agree with Michael that the narratives are better but I think there is still a concentration on their early lives that is not necessary. The committee has, in the past, at least during my term, tended to reject these out of hand, in particular Ida McKinley was one. In looking at these first ladies, I think that I agree with Greg and I disagree with Greg about their accomplishments in and out of the White House. In the case of Grace Coolidge, working with the deaf was something that she did before and after. But at the same time, when she attempted to do something out on her own, her husband reeled her back in very quickly, if you study the biography. And she considered a rebuke -- a rejection of what she was trying to do. I think we do have to look beyond that but I still believe that we need to concentrate on what is going on in the White House. Another example of this is Lou Hoover, who was a strong advocate for the Girl Scouts before and after but restricted herself in the White House because the concern about undue influence in favor of the Girl Scouts. And I think something on the Girl Scouts on her like the trefoil would be ideal. I think that the people that do these narratives need to spend a fair amount of time in getting what the essence of the First Lady is. In terms of Grace 37 Coolidge, there was certainly the working with the deaf. There was also the issue of the ASPCA. In working with Mrs. Harding, she certainly was -- they talk about her working with the veterans before she became First Lady but she continued to work with them while she was First Lady. And let's remember that if she was working with wounded veterans in 1921, these were horrific wounds that she was dealing with. So I think these are an improvement but they have got a ways to go yet. Chair Marks: Thank you. Comments? Member Scarinci: I want to say two things. Chair Marks: Donald. Member Scarinci: You know in Florence Harding I kind of think if we could avoid some of the triviality and it is good that it is in the narrative because it is all part of who the people were. But you know in Florence Harding, I mean, how many more images of tending to wounded soldiers are we going to see and certainly the flying the airplane is kind of cool. But just like the car, I don't really need to see that. The important thing about Florence Harding, you know I would think, is the second bullet point where she is the first First Lady to vote. So it seems to me this is an opportunity to if we could do it in a stylized way and talk about suffrage and talk about the women's right to vote. As to Coolidge promoting organizations and it would be interesting to explore that a little further about what she did with the Easter Seals, Red Cross, particularly Easter Seals, by the way, are also collected. There is a lot of people who actually collect those things. There are famous Easter Seal designs and that might be something really to look at and reach into an audience, a collector audience that we don't ordinarily reach into. I always like the idea wherever possible of reaching 38 into the stamp collectors. You know, I always see the cross-marketing opportunities to do a joint stamp and coin or joint stamp and medal with the U.S. Mint. I have always thought that would be a great idea but -Chair Marks: Can I comment on that, quickly? Member Scarinci: Oh, sure. Chair Marks: Actually, you brought that subject up a couple of years back. And the request was that I would write to the, I think it is called, the Stamp Advisory Committee. Member Scarinci: Right. Chair Marks: I did that and I asked them to consider that and to provide a response back to us and I never received it. So if that is something the committee would like me to attempt again, I would be happy to. But we weren't successful the first time out. But I agree, it is a great idea. Member Scarinci: And it opens up a new product, a new market. And it taps into an audience that the Mint doesn't necessarily have right now. So it has a lot of positives and it is good for the postal service, too. It does the exact same thing for them. So it is a synergy thing and it is worth exploring. There is a new attitude here so maybe you will have help that you didn't ever have or consider possible to have. In terms of Hoover, yes, I completely agree. I think it was Mike who said the Girl Scouts there is a Girl Scout opportunity here, so that is certainly a good thing. With Eleanor Roosevelt, you know I pass her house like all the time in New York, the townhouse that she lived in for 15 years. And it would not be a good idea to portray Eleanor Roosevelt in relation to 39 Franklin. I think Eleanor Roosevelt is a giant, is a giant as Eleanor Roosevelt. So I think I would love to see something that talks about Eleanor Roosevelt as Eleanor Roosevelt, not as the President's wife. And I think that is an opportunity again, as we see as these coins trace history, I think here we see in the beginning of the 20th Century, the fruit of the movement that took place 50 years earlier. And the role of women has, by the time of Eleanor Roosevelt, certainly dramatically changed. And we are going to see that now in the later First Ladies. So this is an opportunity with Eleanor Roosevelt, particularly, is an opportunity to set the stage. So I kind of like the concept of the theme of the first First Lady to vote up to here is Eleanor Roosevelt, you know, a different view of women and a different role for women and society, you know, it still has a lot to go for change but it is a long way from where it was just 50 years prior to Harding. Chair Marks: All right. Thank you, Donald. Someone else? Michael. Member Olson: Yes, I'm only going to make comments on a couple. I want to specifically speak about the Florence Harding supporting servicemen and veterans. I think that is certainly a worthy depiction that should be considered for obvious reasons. The rest of my comments will pertain to Lou Henry Hoover who, as I stated before, was born in my hometown of Waterloo, Iowa. One of the things I didn't see here was she and her husband founded and purchased Camp Rapidan, which was the predecessor, it set the precedent for Camp David. It was the Presidential retreat for the Hoovers. She was personally and significantly involved in the design of the buildings, of the camp itself. President Hoover entertained foreign heads of state there. And when they were done with their presidency, they donated it to the federal government, which I believe is a significant 40 contribution of not only the First Lady but of the President. She also crated the Lincoln Study, which later became the Lincoln Bedroom, which everyone has heard of. In relation to the Girl Scouts, in addition to what is presented here, she convinced Edith Wilson to accept the role of Honorary President of Girl Scouts. Every First Lady since Edith Wilson has been Honorary President of the Girl Scouts. The Hoovers were very generous people before, during and after their presidency. And one specific instance that I will cite here, she personally helped hundreds, if not thousands of needy people who appealed to her for help during the Depression. She paid three personal secretaries to help field these requests, using her own funds and also passing the requests on to her wealthy friends, as well as the Red Cross and other organizations. She did help, again, hundreds, if not thousands, of needy people during that time. After her death, when the President was going through her effects, he found many uncashed checks that these people, these were not loans she gave out, she gave out distributions I don't believe with any intent of repayment but in fact some of these people did repay her and the uncashed checks, many of them, were found in her effects at her death. So I think the generosity of these people, the caring of the Hoovers is something that should also be presented here. Member Ross: Gary, can I make a comment? Chair Marks: Yes, please do. Member Ross: Again, on Lou Hoover, I think they have picked up correctly the subtext that she had racial sensitivities that might seem small today but 41 were somewhat extraordinary at the time for a First Lady both by forming the racially integrated Girl Scout Troop, and being photographed famously shaking hands with Jessie DePriest, the wife of Oscar DePriest, the first black elected official from outside the south since Reconstruction, which he was widely criticized for. And this was at a time when the Ku Klux Klan had its second great rise. There were parades of 40,000 Klansmen marching down Pennsylvania Avenue and she was doing these things, which reflected a Quaker world view that I admire and the narratives have correctly picked up on that. So there are some things for the artist to work with. Chair Marks: Okay, other comments? Heidi. Member Wastweet: The reason that we review these narratives is that we respect the time and energy of the artist and we don't want them to spend that time and energy slaving over designs that we don't want to see. So that is why we make these comments. And I want to talk very visually about these narratives. On Florence Henderson -(Laughter.) Chair Marks: Florence Henderson, the Brady Bunch medal. (Laughter.) Member Wastweet: So it was mentioned that the newspaper was very important to her. And like we did with the cherry blossoms, that was symbolic of how the First Ladies duties were lasting effects that we still see today. And it says here that paperboys, paper routes were her idea. And that is something we still see today. And since she was active in the paper, I think that is a nice symbology and it is very visual to see the boys throwing the newspapers and that could be symbolic of something that was 42 important to her, the newspaper contribution that we still see today. and also a It is not a heavy political topic but it is very visual but it is something that stood the test of time. So that is a good visual for her. Please don't show us garden parties. And yes, the airplane, I don't think that is important enough. As the some other -- many members mentioned, we don't want to see her in any airplanes. It is important that she visited the soldiers, the wounded soldiers but again we are talking about story boards again of her with soldiers with lots of background and busy designs. So visually, that is not going to be, I think, as clean and crisp as what we have been asking for. For Grace Coolidge, I would like to ask it says here she taught at a well-known school for the deaf. Do you know what that well- known school is? We don't have a name here. Do we have that information? Ms. Mattleman: Yes, we know which school it is. Member Wastweet: Do we have a picture of the school? Can we use that as a visual? Member Ross: Is this the one in Northampton? Ms. Stafford: So I will introduce you to Megan Sullivan. She is the program specialist on this. So she can provide the -Ms. Sullivan: Sure. We do have the information on the school. The school still exists, in fact, today. I believe it was the Clarke School for the Deaf, if I am remembering correctly. I'm doing that off the top of my head. So I apologize if I have gotten that wrong but we do have that information. Member Wastweet: Thank you. That might be an appropriate image to show the building itself as an 43 institution that she had heavy influence on, rather than trying to show story boards of her and trying to visually show that these children a deaf. And then we get into the same trouble we got into with other designs being busy and trying to do story boards. So I would like to suggest maybe we do the building itself. For Lou Hoover, I like Mike Olson's comments about the camp that they started. Again, that is something that is still used today. It is a lasting impression and could be visual if you have some interest in that. I also think it is very interesting that they had such a connection with China. That was very forward-thinking. I don't know how we would portray that visually, though. Member Ross: Can I interrupt on that one? Member Wastweet: Yes. Member Ross: I don't think the Boxer Rebellion is something we want to get involved in because it was the Chinese trying to expel foreigners and foreigners under siege until warring troops are sent in to defend them. Her role as a foreigner is probably want to skip that one. Chair Marks: The value of a historian on the committee. Thank you. Member Wastweet: And please, we don't want see her serving tea to the wife of Oscar DePriest. Member Ross: No, but there was a famous handshake across the races reprinted in newspapers across the country. Member Olson: More hands. Member Ross: More hands. Famous handshake. 44 Member Wastweet: On Eleanor Roosevelt, I liked the comments about how she was such a strong person on her own. She had her own voice and her own personality. And it says here that she had a weekly radio program. I think that is very significant. I think a good symbology for this would be a radio microphone that would be a model used in that day or maybe even used by her. Symbolically, the microphone represents that she had a voice. She used her voice. The fact that she used the technology of radio to reach out the masses, I think that is a very important point. And a microphone is a good clear visual. We are staying away from the story board again. Just a simple plain design of a microphone I think would be appropriate. That's all I have. Chair Marks: Someone else? Erik? Member Jansen: I'm going to refrain from any specific comments but I want to make three points, I think. One echoing comments that Dick Peterson made this morning. The process we are doing right now is so much the process we have been asking for. So thank you. The second point is that Betty, and April, and Megan, all you guys who have worked on these, please do not allow yourselves to think less of your product because we have comments. Don't let that matter because there is value in diversity. There is value in process. More of us will collectively bring out the important elements of the essence of the feeling we want to generate that any one individual here could, even the good professor down there. So please think of yourself as the good start and think of yourself as the good aggregate because ideas will come from all of us. And my third point is echoing what she just said. 45 Not that the product you make should precast the artists' opportunities but what we do hopefully will steer them through this stuff. Because as I scan these things, I was tempted to do the standard kind of bubble diagram of what is being said here. What is the big message? Wow, what is that charter? And then I realized for some reason, these don't hang together in a charter like that. They come up as multiple visual images, tools, things like that. And if we do this well, I think we will give the artist more fodder in terms of images as opposed to photographic images. And so I just really my message is thank you for participating in the process that we, Gary, the team before me, envisions it because I think we are getting somewhere. Chair Marks: I guess I will just add to that. I think pretty much every recommendation that the committee made in the blueprint in 2011, I believe, has been implemented now. So many thanks. Many thanks. So much for government reports that no one pays attention to. You guys did super. Thank you. Okay, anyone else want to comment on the design ideas? Member Olson: Just one last thing. Heidi talked about a microphone for Eleanor Roosevelt. And I sit here and I think about a microphone for Eleanor Roosevelt, which says so many things. I couldn't -I would not be able not to vote for that. And it is that simple. You know, the image communicates many, many things. And it is that simple. And I would love to see that. Hopefully we are going to see that. Mr. Everhart: I think a microphone in itself is incomplete. I think there must be something to tie it to her, not just show microphone. This is my two cents. 46 Chair Marks: Anyone else? Member Olson: Yes, I have just go a follow- up. There is one other thing about Camp Rapidan for Lou Hoover that Heidi's comments caused me to recall. Along with that camp, there was a mountain boy that came to visit the camp one day with a gift for President Hoover. It was a possum in a cage. And that caused them to realize that there was a population there of very poor individuals that had no school. The Hoovers financed the construction of a school near the camp for the local kids and also financed the operation of that camp. So there may be another -- some more material for you there. I am also going to forward to the Mint three images provided by Thomas Scwhartz of the Hoover Presidential Library that he thought would be representative of Lou Hoover. Chair Marks: Okay, anyone else? Okay, I want to cover a little bit of ground here on some of what we talked about as far as what we might want to put on the record. I recall that when Michael Moran offered comments I think it was a year or so ago about Mrs. Roosevelt, that I believe your comments were put on the record. Member Olson: They were. Chair Marks: Okay. Michael Olson has some written comments and I am wondering if that might be something you would like. Member Olson: I have already spoken about them. Chair Marks: You are satisfied? Member Olson: Yes, I am good. Chair Marks: Okay. Before I move on, is there 47 anyone else who wants to make a comment on this matter? Member Stevens-Sollman: I do want to make one. One small comment on Grace Coolidge. I liked what Heidi talked about with the Clarke School. I think that was a good image. However, we were talking about the SPCA I think a couple of meetings ago. My question in these narratives, did she have anything to do with the SPCA, to your knowledge? Does anybody know this? And if she did, it would be our opportunity to honor the SPCA when we tried to do this but we ran out of spaces in our coins. So I don't know if that might be an opportunity to work these animals or SPCA or something with her. Member Ross: Somehow I missed in the literature her connection with the ASPCA. So I don't know how in-depth it was. Member Stevens-Sollman: Yes, I didn't know if it had anything to do with it. But if it did, it would be a neat way to do something that we couldn't do before, sort of come in the back door. Just a suggestion. Chair Marks: Okay. Wow, we have had some great discussion. Anyone else? Okay, so Michael Olson is now saying he wants to enter his written comments on the record and so I will just consider that done. Anyone else? Okay. Then before we move on to the next item on the agenda, I would like to update everybody about the results from our scoring for the Presidential Coins and also for the Edith Wilson Coin. So if you are all ready, if you want to take notes on this. On the Presidential series for Harding, and I will just note that there is nine members voting, which means that the highest possible point total for any given design is 27. We had a minor controversy about our 50 percent 48 rule here behind the scenes and what it really means. At 27, is it necessary to get 14 or 15? Because if you go 14 and a half, which is half of 27 -- no, 13 and a half, which is half of 27 and add one, that is 13 and a half, which would mean it would be 14 and a half, which means 15. Well I consulted -- this is the advantage of having some institutional memory on the committee. I consulted with the original sponsor of the 50 percent rule and that would be Ms. Wastweet. And she advised me that it was simply a simple 50 percent plus. It doesn't have to be a full one above it. So with all of that explanation, that means that 14 is the threshold for our 50 percent rule in this analysis. So with that, on the Harding coin, we are looking at, although we eliminated it from contention, design number two received one vote. Design number three received 15. Design number four and five both were zero, also go back to one that was zero because those were eliminated. Design number six received four. And our indicated recommendation would be design number seven, which received 21 of the possible 27 points. Did we get that all? Ms. Stafford: Twenty-one points for number seven, correct? Chair Marks: Yes, correct. Okay, that takes us to President Coolidge. One and two were eliminated. Three received six. Four received eight. And our indicated recommendation would be five, which received 19 of 27. Hoover, number one received 12. Number two received five. Number three was eliminated but received two. Number four was eliminated. Number five received 17. Number six was eliminated but 49 received three. And number seven was eliminated but received two. So sometimes eliminated does not mean eliminated. So our indicated recommendation is number five at 17. Okay, that takes us to Roosevelt. And the indicated recommendation is number one, which received 17 of the 27 possible points. Number two received 11. Three, four, and five were eliminated. Six received ten points. Seven received one and eight was eliminated. So that is the Presidential series for 2014. Moving to Edith Wilson for the 2013 First Spouse Coin, number one received one. Number two received zero. Number three and four were eliminated. And the wow of the scoring so far was number five, which received 26 of the 27 possible. So a strong indication there. Number six received one and number seven received ten. So as I write the letter to the Secretary, I will indicate strong support with our recommendation. Ms. Stafford: Mr. Chairman, may I just ask design 2A, could you repeat that? Chair Marks: Design 2A, I will consult the vote tally man. Member Jansen: Zero. Chair Marks: Zero. I am told zero. Ms. Stafford: Thank you. Chair Marks: Any other questions on the scoring? All right. Okay now, I believe, if I have got my act together, the next item on the agenda is review and discussion of the candidate designs for the Code Talker Recognition Congressional Medal Program for 50 the Muscogee Creek Nation. April. Review and Discuss Candidate Designs for the Code Talker Recognition Congressional Medal Program (Muscogee Creek Nation) April Stafford, Betty Birdsong, and Don Everhart Ms. Stafford: Thank you. This is Public Law 110-420 that authorizes the Secretary of the Treasury to strike congressional medals to recognize the dedication and valor of Native American code talkers to the United States Armed Services during World Wars I and II. Unique gold medals will be struck for each Native American tribe that had a member who served as a code talker. Silver duplicate medals will be presented to the specific code talker or their next of kin. Bronze duplicates will be struck and made available for sale to the public. In late January 2013, we received from the Secretary of Defense an updated list of Native American code talkers who served in the armed forces during both World Wars. This list was organized by tribal affiliation. And to date, the number of tribes has grown to 32. Each tribe was contacted to establish a design concept and also to appoint an official liaison to work directly with us at the United States Mint and their tribal historian or other expert for design reviews. The Department of Defense designated the U.S. Army Center of Military history as our liaison. This team reviews all obverse designs for historical accuracy of uniforms and equipment. The obverse designs represent the code talkers dedication to military service, while the reverse designs feature iconic symbols or elements unique to the tribe and can include their tribal seal or selected elements from their seal. 51 While there are no required inscriptions for design consistency, obverse designs shall include the tribe's name, code talkers, and, if desired, a language unique to the tribe. Reverse inscriptions would include World War I and/or World War II as applicable and Act of Congress 2008. Today, we will review three obverse and four reverse designs for the Muscogee Creek Nation tribe. Okay, there are three obverse designs, each features a code talker and are inscribed with Muscogee Creek Nation Code Talkers. Obverse design one, two, and three. Obverse design three is the design preferred by the tribe and it was also the one recommended by the CFA yesterday. We reached out to the tribe and received word specifically about their preference for number three and they noted that because their tribe fought in the European theater, they felt that obverse three best portrays that. I apologize. CFA preferred design number one. Thank you for that correction. So again, obverse three is preferred by the tribe. Obverse one was preferred and recommended by the CFA. And the reverse designs, we have four in total. The tribe specifically asked that lacrosse sticks and a ball be incorporated into the design. Lacrosse, as a sport is recognized as having evolved from Native American contests often played by tribal warriors, including tribal members from the Muscogee Creek Nation for training, recreation and religious reasons. The first two reverses that you will be seeing feature a stylized rendition of a bald eagle and lacrosse sticks, the notable difference being that design two includes a lacrosse ball. The artist asked us to note that bald eagles are important in the Muscogee Creek Nation culture because they 52 symbolize respect and honor and are viewed as a symbol that ensures victory in war. Both designs are inscribed Act of Congress 2008 and World War II. So here we have reverse one and reverse two. Reverses three and four also feature Lacrosse sticks and a ball. Both are inscribed with World War II and Act of Congress 2008. And here we have reverse three and reverse four. It is reverse three that is preferred by the tribe and it was also reverse three that was recommended by the CFA yesterday. Mr. Chairman? Chair Marks: Thank you, April. Before we talk about our preferences, do we have any questions for the staff of a technical nature, not bearing on design? Heidi. Member Wastweet: Can you tell us about the decision to offer an eagle version without the ball? Ms. Stafford: Betty, do you have any information on that? I believe it was just a design choice by the artist to add variation with the ball. Did you want to go back and see those on the screen? No, okay. Member Wastweet: I was just wondering if there was any -Ms. Stafford: It is a variation. Chair Marks: Erik? Member Jansen: On the reverse, is the text on reverse design three designed to be incuse? Is that message there of that -- that is the way it is rendered here. I am just curious. Mr. Everhart: That is correct. Member Jansen: So that would be incuse. And the design four is a standard positive. Thank you. Chair Marks: Other technical questions? Now is the 53 time. Okay. Then I believe we are ready to discuss our preferences. So I think this time I will ask Mike Ross if he will begin. Member Ross: Oh no, I would rather no. Chair Marks: You don't want to start? Okay. Well maybe then I will ask Donald to start. Member Scarinci: I don't want to start either. (Laughter.) Chair Marks: Okay. Member Ross: I would start with Heidi. Chair Marks: Start with Heidi? Member Ross: Yes. Chair Marks: Okay well I will do that. I will start with Heidi and then we are going to go with Erik and go this direction. Member Wastweet: I would rather not. I'm kidding. Chair Marks: I will require you to. Member Wastweet: All right. On the obverses, I will defer to the preference of the tribe. I don't have a strong feeling. I think all three are very equal so I will just defer to the preference of the tribe. On the reverse, however, I think that design number two is fantastic. We have been asking for more design drawings instead of pictures on medals, as Donald calls them. And this does that. I think it is a beautiful design with the swirling feathers and it incorporates everything in a really appealing way. It is very interesting. I think it will make a beautiful coin. Number three is very simple and clean. I don't dislike it but I think we have an opportunity to vote 54 for what we have been asking for by going with number two. That's it. Chair Marks: Okay, thank you, Heidi. Erik? Member Jansen: On the obverse, I actually prefer number one. And I guess the only way I can describe that is it is the most compact and energetic of the figures. Everything is there in presence and balance. The radio is strongly incorporated in the profile and I like the energy there. At the same point, I don't feel so strongly as to overwhelm the tribe's preference. So I am likely to vote equally for one and three and pass on a vote for number two. Just I kind of default to there. I actually do like one best for the energetic purpose but I don't think it fundamentally will matter. I only have one question on reverse number two, I would love to have the artist just tell me why he or she ended up putting the ball where he or she did. I don't know where else to put it. Why not there, I guess. I love design number two. I love designs one and two because they are more than a simple picture. The CFA went for design three, I think, here. I think they just voted for negative space first and architectural lines second but I think that is kind of a copout. I think we have a real opportunity with design two. And I am indifferent one to two other than number two has got a ball in it. Number two, I love. I love the boldness of putting that eagle there. And I think we are fortunate that the eagle is both the country's symbol and the tribal symbol. That was a heck of a piece of serendipity and I just love, whoever the artist is who did this, right on. Chair Marks: Thank you, Erik. As to my own comments, I will support the tribe on obverse three. Reverse is a different matter. I really love both one 55 or two. I prefer two only for the reason that I think the larger text on the top balances a little bit better with the whole composition, wherever the ball goes is not an issue to me. This is a fabulous more modern design. This is a rarity for this series for the code talkers. And my concern is that because we may defer to the tribe, which I can understand that and respect that decision of course, that we would send the wrong message about one and two. And if in the event even if we select one or two and ultimately the Secretary would pick something else, I would ask that the Mint bring this basic concept back to us, especially the eagle head itself. Maybe it is not in the context of a Native American theme, but of course the eagle being iconic of the idea of freedom in American coinage, that is one you want to keep. So I want to make sure the art staff and the administrative staff of the Mint gets that message from us. So I will plead with my fellow committee members that if you want to support the tribe with number three, fine, go ahead but I would ask you to follow what I am going to do and I am going to give three to both one and two. And my complete intent here is to send a message that this is the kind of stuff we want on our coins and medals in 2013. So that concludes my comments. Michael. Member Olson: Not a lot to add that hasn't already been said. I realize that I believe number three is the preference for the tribe. However, I believe number two is a more appealing design. I am somewhat concerned that the soldier in number three is not holding on to his weapon. He is holding on to his suspender. But beside that fact, I think number one is going to be the one that gets my support. 56 Going on to the reverse, the eagle, that whole design is very beautiful. It is very refreshing to see. Number three is somewhat plain, which can sometimes be good. On a medal like this, we have got a lot of real estate to work with and a lot of relief. And it would be very nice to see that eagle presented on this pallet. So, as Gary said, I am going to be giving votes to both with the majority to one and two. Member Scarinci: You know, I am glad I deferred because it is so rare that Mike and I agree. And you know I savor these moments when we agree. I think that for the -- I am supporting the tribe's selection for number three of the obverse. You know a soldier is a soldier is a soldier. But the design on the reverse, I think reverse number two is the kind of thing we are asking for and it is the kind of thing that did they pick three just because that is the kind of thing we are giving them? And maybe if we give them more of one and two and give stakeholders more designs like one and two, maybe they will be picking designs like one and two. So I think we want to be encouraging the artist for all the reasons Gary very articulately stated, I am on the reverse I am going to go with number two. Chair Marks: Okay, I am going to interrupt this regularly scheduled programming to allow us to honor an icon from the history of this committee and that is Arthur Houghton. Arthur served in an extraordinary way on this committee and I was privileged to be on the committee. In fact, I came onto the committee and he was here. In many ways, there were things that I learned from Arthur in this process and I have the greatest respect for him. And at this point, I am very pleased to introduce acting director Dick Peterson to bestow this honor on Arthur. Mr. Peterson: So Arthur, why don't we have you over here? 57 And I would just like to welcome everyone and Arthur, welcome back to the Mint. I have a few comments. Arthur, as many of you know, served as the Executive Director of the American Numismatic Society. You were the curator of the Getty Museum out in Los Angeles. And you just mentioned to me that you were on the Design Committee that replaced the Susan B. Anthony Dollar with the Sacagawea Dollar. And you said that that was a hoot. And so I am hoping to hear some of the stories that might go along with that. Anyway, in recognition of you service -- and can I have somebody -- maybe I'll just read this. The United States Mint Certificate of Distinguished Public Service presented to Arthur Houghton in gratitude for you distinguished public service to the Secretary of the Treasury of the United States Mint as a member of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee, in recognition of your exemplary advice on themes and designs to the nation's coinage and medals on commemorative coin mintages of events, people and places deserving of commemoration of coins. Your exceptional work has helped the United States Mint fulfill its mission ensuring that each coin and medal connects every American to our nation's greatness and future hope. On behalf of the Secretary, congratulations. (Applause.) Mr. Houghton: Can I say a few words? Never lose an opportunity to lose an opportunity. Say a few words if you have the opportunity. First of all, I am so glad to be back amongst you. I have only been here -- you can hear me I think. Chair Marks: The reporter needs to hear you. Mr. Houghton: You want me to use this. I have only been away for about a year so the 58 amount of change has not been great and I am glad to see old friends in place. And Gary and Michael and others, nice to see you again. And I am sure you are doing the wonderful job that you were doing when I left. I am a little surprise to be here, I should say, because about last October I think it was when the nation was going through its great debt crisis, I had the temerity to call up Gary -- not Gary -- Greg and suggest a new design. At that point, you may recall, we were considering a trillion dollar coin. (Laughter.) Mr. Houghton: I thought now that is something. What would it look like? What would a trillion dollar coin look like or two of them, I think it was what was necessary in order to be able to replace the debt at that particular point. I thought it should be the size of a dinner plate, therefore a really bold design that would then have to go through this committee. Now, think of the opportunities, I said to myself and to Greg. And Greg, there was a sort of brittle moment on the phone. And he said I'm afraid I have to remind you that the Secretary of the Treasury has said there will be no such thing. I said oh. But anyway, we parted on good terms and here I am. So I just want to say how grateful I am to be back here. Thank you so much for this award, which I feel is one of the few government awards you will ever get anywhere that is not a piece of paper and nice thoughts. This is wonderful. Thanks so much. The famed Mr. Lincoln, who in fact was on my book club reading list and this wonderful award. Thank you again. It is wonderful to be with you and best of luck to you all. This is a very serious committee, I want you to know, not like the Dollar Coin Committee that chose the Sacagawea Dollar, which was hilarious. That is for another story and for another moment. But this 59 goes on and on and on. And as an example of that or perhaps as a recollection among the first things we did was the design of the reverse -- the reverse design of the Lincoln pennies, which I have been looking for in circulating currency. It doesn't seem to be there yet but I am still looking. Mr. Peterson: Thank you very much, Arthur. (Applause.) Mr. Peterson: And I would just like to add my thanks. The members of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee serve because you volunteer and because you want to serve. You did, each and every one of the folks here today, are doing the same thing. Public service is a special calling and we thank you for stepping up and answering that call and being here today and each and every month, as you go through the nation's important business on coinage. So thank you very much to you, Arthur, and to all the members of the CCAC. (Applause.) Mr. Houghton: Thank you all. Chair Marks: Okay, I believe as we pick up I will recognize Mike Ross. Member Ross: And I have nothing original to add. I probably like one or three and design obverse two. Chair Marks: Tom? Member Uram: I kind of concur with that. I do like design three a little bit more than design one. It just seems the way the radio is being held in his hand and so forth. But I certainly like the reverse of number one or two also. Chair Marks: Jeanne? Member Stevens-Sollman: Thank you. I will defer to the tribe's wishes on number three of the obverse. The only question I have, Don can we have the 60 soldier holding on to that gun so it is just not loose? Is there a reason for that? Mr. Everhart: That was brought up yesterday. Member Stevens-Sollman: I realize he is holding onto the radio to probably keep it stable, but at the same time, you know, as a civilian, I am uneasy about that. Mr. Everhart: It is at the ready. Member Stevens-Sollman: It's at the ready. Okay. I will defer to that. As far as reverse number two, I am a little worried about it. It is a lovely design, it truly is. But the elements of the ball, the negative space in the beak, the space in the lacrosse equipment, it is all very much the same and I can understand the ball and the equipment being the same, however, it looks like the ball should be in the eagle's beak and that disturbs me a bit. So I don't know how to address that. Make the ball a little bigger. And the feathers also are nice but I don't like -- I know it is flowing and wonderful but I don't like the fact that these feathers are pointed. I am trying to wonder where are they coming from, his neck, not his breast. It is I think an anatomical research that needs to be done there to make it correct. Now maybe this is why the tribe is not accepting these two designs as they should. The feather is an extremely important and spiritual object. So I don't think that this kind of likeness honors that. Thank you. Chair Marks: Michael. Member Moran: If we could go back to the obverses there. I am troubled by the rifle, which is an M1 in all these designs. Particularly in number one, if you were to do a bisecting plane that ran parallel with the rifle, it appears that it is at a slightly different 61 angle above his hand, as opposed to below his hand. That troubles me with that design. Two, I couldn't pick at it as much. I will also say that his hand in number one, generally if you have got a weapon in your hand, you want to balance it, not necessarily prop it up. Number three just kills me in that that rifle is going to be on the ground with dirt in the barrel in about 30 more seconds. And I know why he did that. I mean he was filling up some space over there and giving the butt end of the M1 a place to go. But for the life of me, I can't get past that. On the other hand, that is the tribe's choice and that is probably where I will be voting. On the reverse, I am going to stay with the tribe's choice. They want number three and I will give them number three but whatever. Chair Marks: Okay, that completes comments. Are there any follow-up? our initial I will just add that I appreciate Jeanne's comments about the feathers on one and two. I think she makes a good point. I will put myself in the artist's shoes for a moment, however, and guess that just as the eagle is stylistic with some pointed finishes on the neck area, that the feathers were done the same way in a stylistic manner. Now, that may inadvertently be disrespectful to the image of the feather. I am not -- I appreciate and honor what you are saying about that and I do believe that that needs to be looked into as far as the sensitivity that that may mean for the tribe. But putting myself in the shoes of the artist, if I were trying to do this, I may well try to do the same thing, not meaning to be offensive. So anyway, I get the design but maybe this is an instance where it needs to be reviewed. 62 Are there any other follow-ups? Okay. Then, I will ask that you complete your scoring sheet for this congressional gold medal, pass it in to our Committee Secretary, Mr. Jansen. Approval of the FY12 Annual Report Gary Marks Chair Marks: We are ahead of schedule. We are going to proceed on to approval of the fiscal year '12 annual report. In your packets that you received from the Mint, there is a copy of the annual report that the committee has developed over the last several months. And just for the record and for just reminding everyone what is contained in this report, I will review this in a brief way. But essentially our reports are divided up in categories. Basically, we have circulating commemoratives that we make suggestions about. We have the numismatic commemoratives which are those that apply to the statute which limits commemorations on United States coins to two programs a year. The legislation that created our committee calls for us to include in our annual report recommendations for this commemorative area five years out from the date of the report. So in this case, this report moves through 2017. And then we have other recommendations. We go on and there is a quick recount of the subjects of our meetings during the fiscal year. And in brief, circling back to the circulating commemoratives, we recommend in there the American Liberty circulating commemorative program which has been an item in our reports, I believe, for the last five years and we are going to have further discussion on that in a moment. Also, at the committee's request, I have included at the end of that category a 2014 Kennedy half-dollar, which of course will mark the 50th 63 anniversary of that design's introduction. We are recommending that the Mint create a special circulating issue of the half-dollar or a 0.999 fine silver bullion version. This is not a design change. It is just a way without design change to recognize the 50th anniversary of the Kennedy design. Under the category of numismatic commemoratives, 2013, '14 are both full with enacted legislation. Coin '15 I don't know -- I will ask the staff. Is the March of Dimes Commemorative Act been approved yet? Participant: Yes. Chair Marks: Okay. At the time that we drafted our report -- no. No, actually I stand corrected. I do recognize the fact that that was enacted. However, we have an additional recommendation for the March of Dimes, not particularly part of that program but as an additional commemoration of the March of Dimes that 0.999 fine silver bullion version of the 2015 Roosevelt Dime be produced at the West Point Mint. Also, under the year 2016, we have a recommendation for the 90th anniversary of the establishment of the U.S. Highway Route 66. For those of you who are old enough to remember it, it is an iconic highway route that there were TV shows and songs written about. And some the most unique American architecture of the time all occurred on Route 66. It goes through eight states, Illinois, Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California. And we recommending a unique program here that requests an eight half-dollar set with a common reverse commemorating the highway and an obverse that honors each state through which the Highway 66 passes. Moving down to 2017, we have a recommendation for the National Fallen Firefighters Memorial and again, that is one that has been in our reports, I believe for at least the last five years. It is not a 64 date- specific commemoration but I will just remind the committee and I am sorry if I sound like a broken record on this but we, as a nation, commemorated the peace officers. I believe it was in 1997, the U.S. Mint produced a commemorative for the Peace Officers Memorial. As one who works side by side with firefighters and paramedics, I not being one of them, but still working alongside of them in a municipal capacity, I see what these individuals do to serve us and protect us. And some of them actually fall in the line of duty and that was driven home just this week with the explosion in Texas. More firefighters were lost here. And so I will appeal to you that sometime soon that we take steps necessary to honor these men and women who have fallen and given their lives in the line of duty. And in fact, we are going to have a discussion about this program here. I am anticipating that before we go ahead and vote on this. So we will come back to that one. Then, under other recommendations, again, I think it is an item that has been in the report for several years now. And that is the idea that the One Dollar Silver Eagle Bullion Coin reached its 25-year design requirement in 2011. What that means, if you are not familiar with it is that there is a statute that says after a design has been used on a coin for 25 years, that the design may be changed. And what we are recommending is that it be changed in line with the Public Law 99.61 that enacted it in the 1980s wherein there would be an obverse with Liberty and a reverse symbolic of freedom or an eagle. Then we have under other recommendations a medals program that we have included for a few years, which we are calling the Expressions of America Art Medals Program. This is one that is totally under the control of the Mint, I understand, to have occur in the production of medals. Here, we 65 are suggesting giving artists the free hand, maybe with some very light parameters as far as subject matter to go ahead and experiment and venture into new areas of medallic design to demonstrate what might be possible in the way of modern design and using advanced techniques. So that is one that I know there is a great interest on the committee to see that happen. So, with that, I want to circle back to November, the November meeting, which was the last time we talked about this report. At that time, we had minor controversy about the numismatic commemorative program in 2017, whether that should be the fallen firefighters or what is the Alaska one? Member Jansen: Seward's purchase of Alaska. Chair Marks: Yes, Seward's purchase of Alaska, which was brought forward to us by Erik Jansen. After that meeting, after further consideration, I am going to suggest that the committee, even in reference to what all I said about the fallen firefighters and the fact that it is not a year-specific program, I want to suggest to the committee that you consider, prior to adopting this report, maybe looking at that Alaska item and maybe including it in this report, rather than the fallen firefighters, with the idea that I would request that in the same manner we are doing a resolution for the American Liberty Program at this meeting, that maybe we circle back to a resolution for the fallen firefighters at our next meeting and also consider it for a slot that perhaps the next annual report but that is something we can discuss later. So with that, I want to recognize Erik on the matter of the Alaska theme that he brought forward. Member Jansen: Thank you, Gary. And I truly appreciate reconsideration here. I have been more active in the last meeting or two trying to understand and have a positive impact on the legislation which flows through the Hill to here on commemoratives. And I have tried to listen and 66 learn. And we are focused here very often on design possibilities and ideas and artistic. And I think the idea here with Alaska is rich in that opportunity. One only has to think of totem poles and the rich native art and culture, as well as the open spaces and, quite frankly, the issues of energy. The year 1867 is when we purchased it from Russia, Seward's Folly. So it is the 150th anniversary of that in 2017. It is a one-year opportunity. Thank you. The thing I have learned about commemorative coinage is, above all, it must have a political imperative if it is going to happen. So I looked at this and I said okay, Alaska, who cares? I will tell you who cares. The energy industry cares. And I will tell you who else cares. The Native Americans care because it doesn't take very much of a historical effort to realize, and I didn't know this until I did it myself, that until the Native Americans in Alaska came along, the solution to Native American rights was the reservation. Well, it is certainly not perfect but the experiment in Alaska was to give Native Americans ownership of a large piece of the land up there and they own it today, as well as a stake in capitalism, corporate America. And so NLA, the Natives Land Act, gave a new model to Native American rights, succession of ownership, transitioning the concept of sustenance into sustainability of their culture. And then the third piece of this, which I think has a constituency is Alaska has become ground zero for global warming, eroding coasts, melting permafrost, releasing methane. Now that is the dark side of what is also natural beauty and open spaces with the conservation factions in this country. Now some people think of these as warring cultures, energy, Native rights and conservation. I believe in this case they can come together as a political imperative without adversaries. I would like to see a recommendation from this committee actually get traction and happen. I would encourage us to give 67 this a shot. Chair Marks: Do you have a descriptive that we would use? Member Jansen: I will have to circulate that. I don't have one for us today. But it would be about a four cents version of what I just said. Chair Marks: Okay, so we would do basically the approving of the principle with the idea that we would follow it through with language that you would provide. I wanted to review it today. Member Jansen: I will write it up at lunch, if that will suit the committee. Chair Marks: It might be helpful. Member Jansen: I will do it. Chair Marks: If lunch is necessary. Member Jansen: I can do it. Chair Marks: Okay. All right, any comments on Erik's proposal? Member Moran: So moved. Chair Marks: Okay, it has been moved. Member Stevens-Sollman: Second. Chair Marks: And the motion would be to include the Seward's Folly Alaska theme as a commemorative recommendation for the year 2017. Member Ross: I don't think you would call it Seward's Folly. Member Jansen: Correct. I would strike Seward's Folly. I would commemorate the acquisition of America's precious Alaska. 68 Chair Marks: I couldn't have said it better and I obviously didn't. (Laughter.) Chair Marks: So okay, the 150th anniversary of the acquisition of Alaska. Okay, is there any further discussion? All those in favor please raise your hand. (Show of hands.) Chair Marks: And I see a unanimous vote of nine to zero. So it will be done. We will substitute the Alaska theme for the fallen firefighters without any need for a motion. Unless I see comments, I will plan to come back next meeting with a resolution on the fallen firefighters. Okay, very good. Resolution 2013-01: Recommending an American Liberty Commemorative Coinage Program Michael Moran Okay, next item on our agenda is the recommendation for an American Liberty Commemorative Coinage Program and I will recognize Michael Moran. Member Moran: Thank you, Gary. A little bit of background first, before I launch into this. The original enabling legislation that established the U.S. Mint also had specifications as to what constituted acceptable designs for the coinage. And basically for the obverse, it called for an image emblematic of liberty. Now, there was a disagreement between the House and the Senate in those early debates. The Senate felt like that a personage such as the President should appear on our coins, much as was done in Europe with the royalty and the monarchy. The House absolutely rejected this and insisted that it be a symbolic image of liberty. They carried the day in that argument and, as you know, the designers then 69 turned around and gave it the female form that we saw for basically the first 130 or 140 years. There was a move right after the Civil War to bring the Presidents into part of the coinage, specifically on the nickel. And under consideration was both Washington and Lincoln. We began to get the creep towards the Presidents in 1909, when we got our penny with the Lincoln penny under Theodore Roosevelt. And as we got around with the assassination of President Kennedy, we suddenly were with completely presidential features on all of our circulating coinage. I can remember as a child I particularly liked the Liberty coinage. I had my favorites. I did not like the Presidential themed coins. I don't know why but it just was a personal preference. When I first signed on to the CCAC and picked up an annual report, I thought these guys have got it right. That was basically over the last five years the CCAC has called for a concurrent circulating program of Liberty on our coins, the penny, nickel, dime, quarter, and half-dollar with a new design each year on only one of the denominations. So that basically you would start with a penny with Liberty on the first year and then progress forward. The fifth year, you would be back to the penny. So we would call for one Liberty themed design for our coinage each year out of the Mint. Now the CCAC did this basically to promote liberty but also politically to not offend any of the constituencies or supposed constituencies behind each of these presidential images on our coins, so that they would not feel threatened and there would not be an opposition to the Liberty theme. Now on March the 19th Gary, Erik, and I met with my Congressman from Kentucky that represents my district. He sits on the financial services committee of the House, which has oversight responsibilities for the Mint. I previously talked to him about this 70 Liberty theme coinage and his initial reaction was bring it on. Let's talk about it. So I recruited these two guys. And we did, right after the last CCAC meeting, strictly as individuals, not as the CCAC. And when we met with him, we made that point. First of all, he said he liked it. He supported it but there was one problem. It could not cost the federal government one dime. He was not in favor of that part of it at all. It must generate funds for the federal government. At that point we explained to him the concept is seigneurage. You increase the production, you have incremental new production of coinage, you will have incremental profits from the U.S. Mint that will be dedicated to paying down the debt when these funds are transferred over to Treasury. He asked us to give him a definite proposal and a financial justification. Over the next week, we did just that. But we also modified our proposal from what the CCAC had done for the simple reason that the Mint does not need to make any more pennies and nickels and they are just necessarily required for circulation with the general public. We decided to confine the program to the dime, the quarter, and the half-dollar. Then we had to decide well just could be the incremental production that would be associated with these coins in terms of public demand and collector demand for the new Liberty theme designs. We turned to the nickel program, the Westward Journey Program of 2004 to 2006. We looked at the production in those years versus the prior year for the nickel and came up with an average annual production increase of 593 million nickels per year. That program was a popular program. And I would also point out to you how many of us see any of those nickels in our circulation today versus other years, very few. The general public liked these nickels and they pulled them out and they put them 71 in their dresser drawer. Now you can say well, but the simple fact is that is good for the Mint because it made them make more nickels. We applied this gain from the Westward Journey Program to the dime and to the quarter so you would be having alternating designs for those two coins each year. Again, only one Liberty theme design for the Mint to design each year but it would alternate between the two coins. We did a different tact on the half-dollar. We decided that sine the half-dollar is primarily produced for collectors, that we would propose a Liberty theme design that would last for ten years and then be replaced on a ten-year basis with a second, third, et cetera, design. And we felt like in this case that the current production of three and a half million half-dollars, which basically goes into collectors' hands could reasonably be doubled and that those same collectors that are getting the existing Kennedy design of the half-dollar would also want the Liberty theme. I think that is a conservative assumption. I think more people would be interested in the Liberty theme. But this gives the collectors a series that they can collect over a ten-year basis. And that is the reason we strayed from the original CCAC proposal. We took seigneurage rates for the dime and the quarter, as well as the half-dollar and the numismatic markup for the half-dollar straight from the Mint website. So again, we are dealing with publicly available information. There is no inside baseball in the financial justification that we came up with for the coinage. And what we came up with were annual profits from these three coins of 57.8 million dollars. You look at it over a ten-year basis, it is 579 million dollars. That is a significant number in anybody's ballgame. Being on the outside and not necessarily knowing the ins and outs of the Mint's economics, we did two sensitivity cases. The first one was the downside, 72 pessimistic. We said all right, we are off on our incremental volumes. So we reduced them by 20 percent. That is a significant reduction. We still get a ten-year gain of 471 million dollars in incremental seigneurage profits to the U.S. Mint available for debt pay-down. That is 47 million per year of profitability. We also looked at the seigneurage rates. If you are doing that much in the way of coinage going through these two Mints, Denver and Philadelphia, you are going to get some incremental benefits that will show up in seigneurage. So we said, all right, let's look at a five percent gain in those seigneurage rates to give an optimistic higher side to this analysis. This comes up with 606 million dollars. The project is not as sensitive to this as it is to the volume. The volume is either up or down from this forecast. So we prepared the analysis and I handed it to my representative Andy Barr on March the 26th. The three of us did this over internet over the preceding week. Again, only publicly available data. We told Andy that we would present this to our committee on the 19th for discussion and get back to him after that as to where we were on the project and also that we were providing on that same day the analysis and all the details that we gave to him to Acting Director Peterson. Nothing under the table whatsoever. Now I am going to depart from script for just a second on this. I know that what the three of us have done is a departure from past practice either outside of the confines of the committee or within the confines of the committee. But at the same time after the last meeting, I took home the Mint's annual report for 2012. I looked at it and, quite frankly, the numbers were not all that good. Volume is needed in terms of the performance of the U.S. Mint to present a much more positive picture. 73 I looked at that and I rolled in our numbers. And I have to say, it is compelling. And I think that we, and I use that inclusively not just this committee, but I consider myself a Mint employee and I am proud of it, by the way, to be associated with the Mint. I think it is compelling that we take a serious look at this program. I say again, compelling. I am going to ask for three motions today. And I would like to consider them one at a time. The first motion, and I will make the first motion, is that the committee approve the drafted Resolution 2013-1 as prepared and distributed in advance of the meeting. And before I ask for a second or we get a second, I would like to turn the podium over to Gary so that he can go through that resolution with you. Chair Marks: Thank you, Michael. I would just add to what Michael said that actually the genesis of this resolution was not the three of us. You may recall at the November meeting that Michael Bugeja asked that we bring forward a resolution of this type. Am I on? It says that I am on. So if I am not on, I don't know. So anyway, so Michael Bugeja brought this forward in November. Also, as I read the resolution, I want everyone to understand the resolution doesn't address the word seigneurage anywhere and that is on purpose. I know there has been discussion about that and that discussion was purely for the purpose of making sure the committee understand where we have been with this program. However, that is beyond the scope of our committee. We understand that. That is why the resolution is written purely within the confines of what we do and that is, design. So I am going to go ahead and I am going to read this into the record. "The resolution of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee recommending an American Liberty Circulating Numismatic Commemorative Coinage 74 Program. Whereas, beginning in the early 1790s and extending to the mid-20th century, allegorical depictions of Liberty dominated the designs of circulating United States coins. Coinage from this time period served as a constant reminder to Americans and the world of a defining and distinctive value of American life and culture, Liberty; and Whereas, Liberty themed circulating coins provided some of the most inspiring, uplifting, and beautiful coin designs ever created by the United States Mint, the numismatics Liberty themed coins are the most sought-after collectibles; and Whereas, beginning in 1986, images of Liberty have been used on the obverses of American bullion coins, including the One Dollar Silver Eagle, American Eagle Bullion, American Eagle Platinum Bullion coins and the 2009 Double Eagle Gold coin. Liberty themed bullion coinage programs have proven popular with bullion investors and numismatic collectors alike. These coins also demonstrate that Liberty remains a quintessentially iconic American image; and Whereas, the United States Mint has estimated that 147 million Americans became collectors of quarters produced through the 50 State Quarters Program, demonstrating that the demand for circulating coins for purposes beyond the needs of commerce increases significantly when the frequent and systematic design changes are made through a multi-year commemorative design series; and Whereas, in order to revitalize the designs of United States coinage and return circulating coinage to its position not only as a necessary means of exchange in commerce, but also as an object of aesthetic beauty in its own right. It is appropriate to introduce a new series of circulating commemorative Liberty-theme coins that would alternate annually between the dime and quarter 75 dollar, as one issues; and Whereas, in a similar manner, it is appropriate to introduce a new Liberty themed half-dollar issued for numismatic purposes that would provide a venue to showcase the skill of American artists in the creation of aesthetically beautiful images on a large sized United States coin; and Whereas, beginning in 1909, images of some of America's greatest Presidents have been utilized on United States circulating coinage, Liberty themed circulating and numismatic commemorative coins could be issued in tandem with existing Presidentially themed coins, thereby preserving the places of honor the nation has bestowed on these Presidents; and Whereas, a series of circulating commemorative liberty themed coins will provide a new platform for the advancement of American medallic art to a medium where Americans commonly encounter public art, the nation's pocket change. Now, therefore, be it resolved by the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee: 1) The Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee extends its strongest possible recommendation for and endorsement of an American Liberty Commemorative Coinage Program; 2) American Liberty Commemorative Coinage Program is recommended to include an ongoing circulating commemorative coinage series, inclusive of the dime, quarter, and half- dollar, beginning in 2015. Each year one denomination, either the dime or quarter, would be issued with an image representing Liberty, along with a corresponding reverse design, emblematic of other American values and attributes, such as freedom, independence, equality, democracy and justice. These new coins would be co-issued with the existing Presidential designs, the series is proposed to begin with a Liberty dime issued alongside the 76 Roosevelt dime in 2015. A Liberty dime would be a one-year issue and would be retired at the end of the year. A Liberty quarter would be issued alongside the Washington quarter in 2016 as a one-year issue. The rotation would begin again in 2017 with a new one-year design of the Liberty dime and would also -- and would be co-issued with the Roosevelt dime. This alternating process between the dime and quarter would continue into the future years; 3) The American Liberty Commemorative Coinage Program is recommended to also include a new Liberty half-dollar series issued as a numismatic product. Designs on the Liberty half-dollar would be replaced on a ten-year interval. With these new coins, American's coinage would include a new series of artistic and emblematic images, commemorating Liberty, a core American value. Approved by the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee and signed by the Committee Chairperson this 19th day of April, 2013." So there is a motion to approve the resolution. Did we have a second? Member Olson: Yes. Chair Marks: Okay, it has been seconded. Is there a discussion? moved and Member Olson: Yes, I will say a few words. There is really no reason not to consider this. When we are taking a look at the images that were made a century ago, Saint Gaudens, Weinman, Frasier, all these images we are reusing them. We haven't had a modern depiction of Liberty on a circulating coin in quite a long time. And I know that there is artists out there that can do a good job. With the seigneurage that is depicted here or displayed here in the analysis, it seems to be very conservative. There is just no reason not to give this a try. And I fully support the motion and I hope 77 that it is successful that these coins do actually get produced. Chair Marks: Others? Member Scarinci: Just a quick thing. It is Congress that decides these things, not us. And I don't want our vote to be construed in any way, other than our expression of interest in this program. And then as to the depictions of Liberty, all I can really say is, we have to think about how we are communicating what we want and what we don't want. And depictions of Liberty in a new and modern way are not allusions to ancient figures, robes, flowing hair. And all of those images, they are exactly that, they are new and modern images. And we don't have anything specific to point to and say this is what we want you to do, I mean, nor can we because we are not artists. So all we can do is ask for creativity and for an exposure to world coinage and to contemporary art by looking at other areas of art, looking at what is going on at important contemporary art galleries, the Getty, the Museum of Modern Art, the Whitney, the Guggenheim, and other places around the world, the Hermitage and others. And at the same time, paying attention carefully to coin issuing -- other coin issuing nations to see what they are doing. You know what the Netherlands did that won the coin of the year in 2011 by putting the first CQR code on a coin and a lot of the bold and interesting designs, where they have depicted their themes of royalty that have been on their coinage for centuries. And they have managed to find new and modern ways to depict all of that. It seems to me that if we put our effort into making our coinage reflect the 21st century and the new world and if we all just accept the fact that once and for all Saint Gaudens is dead. Let's just get over it. I think there is an opportunity here. Member Ross: He's actually alive and living in 78 Florida. (Laughter.) Chair Marks: Okay, others. Member Jansen: I want to speak to the numbers here that Michael described as compelling, only because I think it is going to be important that hopefully we get some concurrence that at least the analysis is rational. And in that sense, I would invite the Mint to take a look at the numbers and give us some feedback on them if you think it is appropriate or rational or maybe there is a better way of looking at it. I don't know. But I think that is a request that I would make. Maybe the committee feels it is something we would like to formally ask for, I don't know. Member Moran: You're getting ahead of yourself. Member Jansen: Am I getting ahead of myself? I don't mean to get ahead of myself. Member Moran: That is motion three. Member Jansen: Oh, okay. Well, excuse me for not reading from a script. I would also like to echo the thought that Donald just put out there and that is, what an opportunity bring new art thinking to our coinage. Because I always think of change within an incumbency. And the U.S. Mint is the incumbent -- well the largest producer of coinage in the world and certainly this country. And I normally think of change as requiring kind of an unfreeze, a move, and then a refreeze. But in this case, with a program like this, we don't have to do the unfreeze step, which is often the hardest part. I would just look at a motion to -- not a formal motion, a movement in the art consideration here to some new frontiers and then to freeze them. Freeze them down as a successful program and a new reference point for history to 79 look at how we look at Liberty today. Chair Marks: Thank you. Others? Okay, we have a motion on the floor to approve Resolution 2013-01. If there is no further discussion, I will ask for a showing of hands as we vote. All those in favor, raise your hand. (Show of hands.) Chair Marks: It is a unanimous vote. Member Moran: How dare he do that? Chair Marks: It is a unanimous vote. So I will recognize Michael Moran. Member Moran: The second motion I would like to make is that the committee authorize the Chairman to appoint a subcommittee to act on its behalf in promoting this resolution and reports such actions to the committee as regularly scheduled meetings. Chair Marks: Is there a second? Participant: Second. Chair Marks: Okay, moved and seconded. Michael, could you address your motion? Member Moran: I think it is pretty self- explanatory. If there any issues that need to be addressed, particularly that we get Q and A from whatever angle, that there be a subcommittee that be appointed to deal with this, particularly in terms of the numismatic press and the interim between this meeting and our regularly scheduled meetings going forward. Chair Marks: Any further discussion? Any further discussion on the second motion? Member Jansen: You said to report back to the committee. Member Moran: I think they need to, yes. 80 Chair Marks: If there is no further discussion, I am going to ask for a showing of hands again. All those in favor, raise your hand. (Show of hands.) Chair Marks: It is a unanimous vote. Thank you. Michael? Member Moran: The third motion, that the committee request the Mint to review the assumptions used in this analysis in forecasting seigneurage gains from the proposed Liberty coinage and make recommendations from any changes that would improve the forecast, the expected results of the forecast from the Liberty Program. Chair Marks: Is there a second? Member Stevens-Sollman: Second. Chair Marks: Did someone second? Jeanne. Okay, so moved and seconded. I am going to ask the staff if that is possible to review our data. Mr. Norton: Our initial statute here, I think it is appropriate that we can ask our CFO to look at the endorsement and so forth. Chair Marks: We understand that. Mr. Weinman: It is closed. It is questionable whether or not it is in the charter of the CCAC. Chair Marks: Understood. Mr. Weinman: It may be more appropriate to just defer the artist. It is very close to the -Chair Marks: Yes, and we are sensitive to that. And that is specifically why the resolution avoided the issue. Mr. Weinman: Right and I appreciate that. But I am not sure this motion is appropriate for the artist. 81 Member Moran: I would be willing to withdraw it, as long as we get a review. Mr. Weinman: I think that would be best. Member Moran: I withdraw the motion. Chair Marks: Okay, thank you. Thank you. All right, so that takes us on to the next item. I am going to ask the staff about the status of lunch. Is that something that is ready to go? Okay, well you know what? I think I am going to put us in recess. And when we come back, we are going to look at the review and discussion of themes for the fallen heroes of 9/11, which is a congressional gold medal. So at this time, we are in recess. And I would just note that given that we are going to lunch a little bit early, I am going to -- pardon me? Member Stevens-Sollman: I'm sorry. Did we get the final votes for the Muscogee Creek Nation? Chair Marks: Do you have that? Member Jansen: We haven't finished it, have we? Have I received them from everybody? Chair Marks: We will report that after lunch. Member Stevens-Sollman: Thank you. Member Jansen: I'm sorry, I do have that. I apologize. I apologize. Chair Marks: We have it. Okay, we are not in recess. Okay, Muscogee Creek Nation Gold Medal obverse design number one -- again, this is a possible 27. Obverse number one, 14, which is the cut off but not the recommended design. Two is five points and three would be our indicated recommendation with 22 of the 27 possible points. On the reverse, reverse number one received 13. 82 Reverse two received 24 of the possible 27. Reverse three received nine. And reverse four received one. And I would read into those results the strong indication for two that, and I have taking a little liberty here, even if this ultimately is not the design that is produced, we would like to make sure that the message is received that we very much appreciated the direction of that design and it is the way it was rendered and the spirit of the modern nature of it. Member Moran: Well then we can do a lacrosse commemorative coin. Chair Marks: Excuse me? Okay. All right. So, are we ready for lunch? Member Ross: Well Gary, if we did Fallen Firefighters, would we be done with this segment? Ms. Stafford: We actually -- I'm sorry to interrupt. Member Ross: Fallen firefighters, fallen heroes. Ms. Stafford: Yes, sir. We have guests for that portion. Member Ross: Oh. Ms. Stafford: And their input is absolutely critical, I think, to the committee's discussion. Chair Marks: Right. Ms. Stafford: We have asked them to assemble at 1:15. But given traffic or what have you, I would ask that we could reconvene when we have -- when we can be assured that they are all with us. Chair Marks: Can we tentatively make that 1:30? Ms. Stafford: Oh, yes, absolutely. It is scheduled for 1:30. Chair Marks: Okay. That will give it time for people to report back to the room. If they are not here, we 83 are going to wait them out. Ms. Stafford: That would be great. Yes, 1:30 would be best for us. Chair Marks: Okay. So as we go into recess, I will ask everyone to be back in the room at 1:30. Thank you. (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter went off the record at 12:08 p.m. and resumed at 1:36 p.m.) Afternoon Session (1:36 p.m.) Review and Discuss Themes for Fallen Heroes of 9/11 Congressional Gold Medals Chair Marks: All right, I am going to call us back into session. The next item on the agenda is the review and discussion of the themes for the fallen heroes of 9/11 Congressional Gold Medals. April, can you give us your report, please? April Stafford Ms. Stafford: Yes, sir. Thank you. The Public Law 112-76 authorizes the Secretary of the Treasury to strike three Congressional Gold Medals in honor of the men and women who perished as a result of the terrorist attacks on the United States on September 11, 2001. The legislation stipulates that one gold medal shall be given to each of the Flight 93 National Memorial in Pennsylvania, the National September 11th Memorial and Museum in New York, and the Pentagon Memorial at the Pentagon. Regarding the designs, legislation notes that the gold medals should have suitable emblems, devices and inscriptions to be determined by the Secretary 84 and the Secretary may strike and sell duplicates in bronze of the gold medals. The United States Mint plans to strike three unique medals with the design of each medal focused on the location of the attack and the people who perished there. Following the award of the medals, the medals will be put on permanent display at the Flight 93 National Memorial in Pennsylvania, the National September 11th Memorial and Museum in New York and the Pentagon Memorial at the Pentagon. The legislation requires that the medals contain, as I said, appropriate designs and suitable emblems, devices, and inscriptions but no other design requirements are stated. We do recommend a common theme between the three medals. One recommendation is to use the obverse to remember the fallen and the reverse to look forward to the future. We welcome any other suggestions. One other note. As the design team has had conversations with the liaisons and the artists, we also recommend considering a common design element to be used throughout the three medals. Senators and Congressmen from New York, Pennsylvania, and Virginia provided the United States Mint with liaisons for this project. And today we have with us liaisons from each location, some of whom would like to provide remarks about the gold medal designs. From Pennsylvania Flight 93 we have Sandy Felt, Paula Jacobs, Carole O'Hare on the phone. From New York we should have Monica Iken on the phone and from the Pentagon we have Laurie Laychak. So I would like to ask, I believe Sandy Felt will be providing comments for Pennsylvania. 85 Sandy Felt Ms. Felt: First of all, thank you for inviting us to come in today and an opportunity to speak. I am going to take you back to initially to when we first heard about the medal and our communications with Megan. And we sent out a questionnaire to our family members because we may be a few people here but there are 40 families involved. And so we try to keep everyone informed and make them also feel part of the process. So we sent out a questionnaire asking for insight and ideas. We have had few responses but we did gather some interesting information from it that I would like to share with you today. First of all, the one thing that came across very clear is that no names were to be emphasized. We want this to be a collective. There were 40 individuals. That is how we would like to have it represented. No religious iconography. No slogans, such as "Let's roll." I think that was the one thing that came very, very clear from all the family members. There is a very strong objection to it, so I can't underline that enough. And I just wanted to bring that to the table. We have provided pictures and an invitation for the designers to come out and visit the site. Generally, the idea of the pictures was to give them a sense of what the memorial is like but the reality is only a site visit can give you the essence of the place. So we would love to have you guys come out and visit and walk you through. But in the meantime, we have provided pictures to give you guys an idea. I think there are two standard elements that are fundamental to the families. And that is the boulder and the wall of names. The boulder is the marking spot of where the remains are buried. And the wall of names, well it speaks for itself and is a fundamental feature of the design. Additional renderings have been made which we have provided the images to Megan as well. And that is for the 86 additional features that are being built as the process moves along because we were uncompleted -- incomplete design as of yet. One of the ideas that we discussed with Megan is to have all 40 names be on the coin but we have realized that that is not practical and are bringing it out because it is still floating out there. I can't see how that would make it possible to have the names on there but some people in our group were very strongly who wanted it to happen. So I am bringing it to the table, not necessarily my choice. Member Scarinci: Maybe I misunderstood. Didn't you say no names? Ms. Felt: No individual names. Member Scarinci: Oh. Ms. Felt: No names to be singled out. Member Scarinci: No names of people. Ms. Felt: Correct. Member Scarinci: Okay. Ms. Felt: If you want all 40 names on there and you can make them fit, we have no objections to that, though we don't see how that would be possible. And I look forward to any additional ideas that might be generated from this meeting. We haven't really had anything concise yet to look at. But if you have ideas, we are here to listen. Thank you. Ms. Stafford: Okay so we also we have -- we should have Monica Iken. Are you on the phone from New York? Is Monica with us? Ms. Sullivan: I haven't heard from her. Ms. Stafford: Okay, she had intended to be with us. So we will go with we have Laurie Laychak with us from the Pentagon. 87 Laurie Laychak Ms. Laychak: Hi. Thank you for including me in this meeting. As April introduced me, my name is Laurie Laychak and I actually lost my husband at the Pentagon on September 11th. I have two children. They were seven and nine years old at the time. So as you can imagine, this is a very emotional and meaningful gesture on your part to make sure that we have these coins and representation from each of the three sites. Our liaisons included the Chief of the Arlington Fire Department and a gentleman from the FBI, a sister of a woman who was killed at the Pentagon, and then myself. And we are chosen as representatives, but as you can imagine, there are 184 people that we are trying to respect their wishes and it is a challenge. So we are just hoping to do our best to honor those that were lost. Our main goal, of course, is that we just want for our loved ones to be remembered. As we discussed in the meetings that we have had about some different images, of course this occurred at the Pentagon and I think it would be appropriate to differentiate from the other two sites to have Pentagon representation. A couple of things we did not want to see were there is an iconic image of a flag draped over the Pentagon. And we feel that we have seen that quite a bit so we are steering away from that image. And another item that we thought we would steer away from was imagery showing the actual Pentagon Memorial itself because that is a memorial to the event but it is not the actual event. The event, of course, being the impact at the Pentagon. I think we all really like a button that I am wearing today that was developed for the one-year anniversary of 9/11 at the Pentagon and the images 88 include the pentagon itself, an eagle and a flag. And those are images that we all unanimously really feel help demonstrate the feelings behind it. It also says "united in memory" but we felt like "united we stand" is also something we like. The trick is that we have seen so many buttons and coins and images showing these things that it is a bit of a creative challenge to come up with something that is a little bit different. The artists that we talked to on the phone, we had a conference call with them. They talked about perhaps including 184 stars, somehow, representing each of the victims and that was something that we found appealing but it is not a necessity. So we are really quite open. There weren't too many things that we felt adamantly not to include. But thank you again. Megan Sullivan Ms. Stafford: So, unfortunately, we had two liaisons who had intended to participate from New York but, unfortunately, I believe they have had some trouble getting through. So Megan has some notes from her discussions with them that we can share. Ms. Sullivan: Yes, I mean I just have my informal notes that I took during our meeting. So I will kind of scroll through what we discussed. I wasn't really expecting to present these. In New York, I mean obviously I think we all know a lot of the visuals that are coming from there. And we have a group of very diverse liaisons, some of whom are very tied to the memorial and would like to see images from the memorial, such as the memorial pools. Others who would like to completely stay away from that. So that really opens us up to a lot of ideas. We have discussed the idea of silhouettes of the rescuers, just to sort of generalize, rather than 89 putting one specific person. Some of the other notes that talk of the survivor tree. I am not sure if you are all familiar with the story of the tree that was found still living in the World Trade Center bombing area. I mean, there was this tree that they discovered didn't die. And they dug it out and it was nearly dead and a botanist or an arborist brought it back to life and it has been replanted and is flourishing. And so they thought that really tells a great story of the resilience. Their big notes here are telling a story, courage and sacrifice, and going from our darkest hours onto how we rebuild. And so those were the highlights from our discussion. And again, I apologize that my liaisons couldn't be here. I was disappointed that they couldn't make it. Ms. Stafford: So Mr. Chairman, we had intended to have a representative from each of the sites speak but certainly if we have any other liaisons that are here that would care to contribute, we welcome you to contribute now. Certainly I know that the committee might want to engage in dialogue as well so we will have an opportunity, I think. But seeing no immediate contributions, I will turn it over to you for comment. Chair Marks: Thank you, April. Would you please share if any of those folks come on the line that you would let us know and we can break off our discussion? So okay, so I think I will start off. How do you do this one? This is tough. I mean as Americans, this is a tough one to do. And I guess I would ask that whatever we do is done in a way that brings great dignity to the subject matter. I'm sorry. And not that I want to redo the 9/11 medal, I don't. But the 9/11 medal I think is instructive in that it reached for those higher level illustrations -- that is 90 not the right word -- those iconic images that touch the spirit that are more than a photograph put on a coin. Particularly, I like the reverse of the 9/11 medal with the flowing water done in a stylistic manner. And the eagle portrayed as our freedom enduring through the ordeal, although that is what they wanted to take away from us. And then Liberty holding the torch and doing so with a very referential posture. I'm not saying we should do Liberty. I'm not saying we should do water. I am saying, artists, you have a tough assignment here and I would ask you -- I don't need to ask you this. I mean, you know this already. Reach for those things that touch the spirit, to touch our hearts that bring dignity to what we are commemorating. So someone else? Member Jansen: I would hope that this gesture on the part of America with this coin could invite you and invite the entire country to give everything we can to you to help you find closure. You will never have it perfectly. But I think if we can help you find closure, maybe someone who hasn't been directly touched by this can find one more way to feel that for you. So I am going to ask those of you who are here with the memorial effort, give me two or three words, give me two or three pictures that might give you closure. Because I have a feeling they will do more than give the rest of us a new vision. Ms. Felt: My husband died on 9/11. When you talk about closure, that is not in the game plan. So I am sorry but I really feel that for me, personally -- you are asking my personal opinion? Member Jansen: yes, I am. Ms. Felt: We are looking beyond closure. We are looking for something that satisfies the needs of a nation, not just necessarily my personal needs here. Because this is not my husband. This is a 91 window-dressing in my husband's world. So I am here to represent 40 individuals. So really, it is not a personal choice for me. Really and truly this coin is about our nation and the resiliency of this nation. Member Jansen: Absolutely. Thank you. Carole O'Hare Ms. O’Hare: Hi, this is Carole O'Hare. I am on the phone. May I make a quick comment? Chair Marks: Please do. Ms. O’Hare: Okay, my mother was on Flight 93. She was moving from New Jersey to California that day. And I have to agree with Sandy that closure is not a typical something that I am personally looking for because I don't think that is something that is very possible in these types of situations. But from my personal perspective on the medal, I am looking for something that shows that we have honored those who have died in a very, like someone used the word, dignified way that combines honoring, showing the strength of our nation while still honoring those who perished at the hands of someone else. And that is my personal opinion on what I am looking for. Chair Marks: Thank you. Ms. O’Hare: Thank you. Chair Marks: Anyone else what to contribute to Erik's -Paula Jacobs Ms. Jacobs: Hi, I'm Paula Jacobs. My brother was a passenger onboard the flight. I tend to agree with Carol. I think that it is a much broader statement for all of us. It becomes more of a collection of unity, resilience, strength, courage. It is never, ever 92 about singly one person or one event. This impacted 3,000 souls and a nation as well. And I think at the end of the day that closure really doesn't exist and it was probably one of the hardest words during the course of the 11 years when someone says to you, "Oh, they have got Osama bin Laden. Do you have closure now?" It is kind of a very disarming word because when you lose a love and a life, there is nothing that can shut that door on their life or the way that they impacted yours. So I think for me, as a sister and an only sister with three brothers, that I think that strength and character and courage and honor and having our country still be where we are today as a result of all of this is more important than anything else. So thank you. Ms. Laychak: I know it is so hard to find the right words. Words can just mean different things to different people and it is tricky territory. But I remember feeling very strongly after September 11th, that my husband was such a patriot and he loved our country. The was most touching thing to me was when I saw flags fly everywhere; from people's cars -- I had never seen that before -- houses. And the veneer of our country was stripped and we united to be able to put aside our pettiness and to be able to see what was important. And I grew up in a Navy family and I lived all over the world. And I am so proud to be an American and I feel so grateful to be an American that that unity and our patriotism that we saw after September 11th is something that I think we should honor and hold on to. It saddens me when I see it dissolving and so if there is some way we can keep that in mind, and I think that you have touched on those aspects very 93 nicely. But we just, we have to do what we can to -I think in my opinion, that is the best way that we can honor these who lost their lives and the family members who will always continue to suffer. Kathy Dillaber Ms. Dillaber: My name is Kathy and please excuse my tardiness. I was at another meeting before this. My name is Kathy. I lost my sister Patty. I am also a survivor and I lost 24 of my coworkers. And I just follow on to what the ladies have said. Everybody has said so far. And speaking on behalf of the survivors and for my coworkers who went back to work the next day, it was about pulling together and keeping their memories alive that way and always honoring them. I can't add any more than that except to speak from another point of view. Mr. Everhart: Thank you for helping me understand it even better. Chair Marks: Someone else? Member Scarinci: Don, can I just make a suggestion on this topic? You have got a hard job with this. And I think the only way to do it, I think to think that we are going to see -- I don't really want to be sitting here looking at obverses and reverses and mixing and matching them. I don't think that is the right way to handle this. I think that if I were in charge, I think you would pick three artists and you take each one of them and you send them to a site and you let them absorb it and talk to people and let them come up with a medal, obverse and reverse. I would rather -- I think you need the artist experience with this. I will send you the notes for an article I never was able to finish with pictures of the 17 medals that were done contemporaneous within several months, you know six months of the event. And there is only 17 of them and I will send you pictures of those. And you probably are familiar with 94 Leonda Finke's medal, which I think is one of the most moving on the subject. But I really think we have got to suspend with the obverse and reverse thing for this medal because I really think you need to immerse and you have got to pick, discuss and come up with, rather than -don't assign. I mean, this is one that you pick and you send them. And obviously, when you come to New York you are welcome to see it from my window. Mr. Everhart: Thanks for the suggestion. It is really going to be challenging, probably the most challenging one that we have done since I have been here and it is going to be ten years coming up. So we are going to give it all we have got. Chair Marks: Someone else. Member Olson: I think anyone that has taken a flight since that day gets on the plane and thinks am I going to make it to where I intend to go today. And what would I do if somebody tried taking over this plane? You don't know until it happens. And in the case of Flight 93, we know what they did. They acted with honor and valor and that had to have been a terrifying experience but those folks did a great service to this country by what they did. And what I would like to see is conveyance of valor, honor, and taking action. I know we don't want to get into individuals but I am going to site one instance here from the Trade Center that when I heard about this, when I saw this on TV, it really moved me. And I am hoping I am pronouncing this gentleman's name right but Firefighter Stephen Siller, Fire Engine Squad 1 in Brooklyn. He was on his way to play golf with his father and two brothers on the day of 9/11. And he was in his pickup truck and heard of the attack. He immediately pulled over to the side of the road. He had his golf clubs in the truck. He also had his complete fire gear with him. 95 He donned his gear, his oxygen tank, and began running to the World Trade Center because the traffic was too thick to get there. He was seen by several individuals running through the Battery Tunnel, 1.7 miles. Along the way, a fire truck offered to give him a ride. He said, I will get there before you. I am going to keep running. And everybody knows how heavy that fire gear is. This guy had a mission and he was going to complete it. Along the way on the other side of the tunnel, a friend in an additional fire truck picked him up and took him the rest of the way. He dropped him off at the base of the World Trade Center, where he was last seen and he is believed to have perished when the South Tower collapsed. That is dedication. That is valor, that is honor. That is being put in a situation and making the right decision for the common good. We can talk about stories from the Pentagon about the valorous actions that were taken there to rescue the people. For anyone that has been in the Pentagon, it is an office building. People aren't expecting an attack. Certainly a lot of those folks that work in there are military but it is an office environment. And little did anyone suspect that the war would be brought to them that day. So from my perspective, we certainly want to take a look at the remembrance of the fallen but for me, and I think to honor the victims properly, we need to take a look at honor and valor and action taken to fight the enemy that day. That's all. Chair Marks: Thank you, Mike. Heidi. Member Wastweet: The challenge is putting all of this emotion into visual images. And what I am hearing from you that have come here today, I hearing repeatedly the ideas of unity and resilience and going beyond, not just dwelling on the loss but 96 what did this do for us as a country. And so poignantly the way you said how it brought the country together and how sad that that has slowly been dissolving ever since. And if we can somehow we can grasp a little bit of that back by reminding people that the tragedy did bring us together and what happened to that. And I am also hearing that the numbers of the families involved and I think those numbers are poignant. And Megan, can you remind me, we have 40 families in Pennsylvania? Ms. Sullivan: Correct. Member Wastweet: And 184 in the Pentagon? Ms. Sullivan: Yes. Member Wastweet: And how many were in New York? Ms. Sullivan: I would have to look for the exact number. I don't have that in front of me. I'm sorry. Member Wastweet: I think those numbers are important. And if there is a way to represent those numbers, whether it be with stars or simply dots that are forming shapes, maybe a way to represent that number, I think that is important and a way to bring that to a visual. So that you can look at the coin and see a visual of how many people that is, rather than looking at a number, you can see the volume of that. And I like the idea of the survivor tree or just the idea of sprouting, even if it isn't that specific tree but the idea of life coming out of that and life going on. From the cinders comes life and we all go on afterwards. And also part of the idea of unity is like Don was saying, unity of design as well. We don't want to 97 see three different designs that have nothing to do with each other but truly a set that has a common theme throughout all six sides that shows that all three are connected, not just because they are all coins but the actual design is connected. And maybe even as you set all three side by side, maybe there is an element that runs across all three that connects them like a puzzle piece. And I would like to stay away from some of the cliches. There was a mention of let's not see the flag draped over the Pentagon again. We see a lot of the same images over and over again and we have become blind them. We have become numb to those images. So if we can come up with something a little fresh and not too complex, not people running and dying and not representing firefighters or policemen but something that we can all associate with a little more common, rather than singling out. Those are my thoughts. Chair Marks: Someone else? Ms. Dillaber: And I don't know how you would approach this as artists. In the weeks and the months that followed and I returned to the Pentagon, back to work, three or four months later, I wore my guardian angel pin. Now I know that is crossing into a sensitive area with guardian angels but it was what helped me to get by and to also -- it was also a way of honoring. I do believe the there was a guardian angel watching over me that day. I don't know how you can pull that in without crossing the lines of faith and religion in a pin of Christianity but some sort of symbol of -- I know Patty is watching over me all the time, as well as my coworkers, who said Kathy, keep going. You have a mission. Some sort of symbol of moving forward and protection and unity again. Chair Marks: Tom? Member Uram: First of all, I would like to thank you 98 for the emotional thoughts that you had all today. It certainly is moving to all of us. In October of 2001, I happened to be on Fifth Avenue in New York. You couldn't have heard a pin drop because there was a funeral going on at Saint Patrick's that day for a brother and a father. And so being here today and talking about where you are coming from, I am thinking to myself, I wasn't in New York. I wasn't in the Pentagon. But being there for that funeral was something else. And I am thinking to myself, wow, what these people have gone through and what this country has gone through. And I kind of like what Heidi had to say and as you were talking is we think about this particular design and medal is certainly the tree and the water. And what you just mentioned about the guardian angel, it hit me that maybe something like a rainbow might be the echoing fact of not crossing into the religion and so forth. But thank you all for coming. I really, really appreciate it. But I will never forget that day, as many of us will not. Chair Marks: Someone else? Well I will add to my remarks and just repeat something that we have said many times when we have talked about coins and medals. And that is, let's make sure we have got a lot of balance in negative space and the devices. We know that contributes to a well-presented design. Simplicity, too. I know that is the tough part. That is the tough part. I don't really want to load this up with too much. The simplicity, I think, will speak in a whole other dimension, if we can somehow figure out how to do that. So those are just some basics that I think that all of us who deal with this frequently understand. And again, we accomplished it in that 9/11 medal. 99 So anyway, is there anyone else who wants to follow up? Member Olson: I would just like to reemphasize and tie together comments that Donald and Heidi made. I agree that this should be an assignment given to an individual artist and send him to the location. They should design the front and the back, the obverse and reverse and that is what we should be presented with. To Heidi's comment about it, the three should look like part of a whole. When the actual gold medals are produced, they are going to be sent to three different locations. It would be very neat if there was some way that when you are looking at the one at the Pentagon, you know how that ties in to the other two. I think that is very important that it be a congruous set and it is completed as a complete project by a specific artist for each location. Chair Marks: I think I will add to that. I mean we have been talking about sending one artist to each of the three places. You know, artists are sensitive people and they process their information differently. And because of that, you get uniqueness between a couple or three artists that I think could really inform our process when we look at the result of the exercise. I would be really interested in not just one artist going to each place but maybe two or three, so that we can really get a broad array of ideas about this because I really want to get this right. And I think, again, with more diversity of artists processing the information and finding those symbols and those images that are appropriate for this, I think that serves us best and I think it will help us get to where we need to be with all three. So that is just my suggestion. Anyone else? Member Stevens-Sollman: I have to agree with you, Gary, that I think to send multiple teams to each site where the artists can sort of bounce ideas off from each other and kind of grow from that, I think we would have a more sensitive presentation in the 100 end. To send one artist to one place is such a horrendously huge task. I think they need each other to get them through this. So I agree with you. Chair Marks: And I will add to that. I am not suggesting that we mix and match obverse and reverse. I am so much on the same page with my colleagues here that I really want to encourage the artists to produce obverse and reverse that they intend to tell the story together. And I don't think there is a person on this Board who would speak differently on that point. So is there anyone else before we conclude? I want to turn to our guests again and ask them. Ms. Jacobs: The only thing that I would like to add and it is just really more of a private thought is that when we were, as family members, someone had, a local person had said that as far as where our site is, is that it was just a common field one day and then it was a field of honor forever. And I think that that kind of resonates to all three sites. So if just something to maybe pass on to the artists, they will see it when they go to our site, but I just think it is a great little way to kind of plant a seed when you go somewhere, because this really was just a field and now it is a place where 40 souls were lost. And now it is a field of honor. That's all. Chair Marks: Thank you so much for that. That is, I think, what I was trying to get at. Ms. Jacobs: Yes, I think that is what you were trying to get at. And so I just wanted to kind of share that with you. Chair Marks: It is two sides of the story. One day it is an ordinary place -Ms. Jacobs: Yes. Chair Marks: -- the next day it is a place of honor. 101 Ms. Jacobs: Yes, it is a place of honor. Chair Marks: Right. Thank you. Ms. Jacobs: Thank you. Chair Marks: Anyone else, our guests included? Our guest on the phone? Ms. O’Hare: I just want to say -- this is Carol. I just want to say thank you for the hard work. I think I like a lot of the ideas that you have presented today and I think there are some things that you mentioned that I, personally, had not thought of before but I am looking forward to seeing what the artists come up with. Thank you. Chair Marks: Thank you. And I want to thank each of you individually as our guests for being here today and sharing with us. I know it is a difficult thing to do. I can't imagine being in the position that you are. And I honor you. (Applause.) Wrap up and Adjourn Chair Marks: Okay, that brings us to the end of our agenda today. I want to remind the committee members that the administrative meeting that we had intended to do at lunch could not happen because our quorum decided to take off after we ate. So what I am going to ask as soon as we are done here in this room and we say farewell to our guests, I am going to ask that we as a committee and a few of the staff members assemble next door in the vacant room. And I would like to complete our administrative session over there. So at this point, it is 19 minutes past 2:00 and this meeting is adjourned. (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter went off the record at 2:19 p.m.) 102 Exhibit A The following was provided by Thomas Schwartz, Director of the Herbert Hoover Presidential Library and Museum at the request of Michael Olson, CCAC member. It was presented at the April 19, 2013 CCAC meeting. Contributions of Lou Henry Hoover as First Lady: Selected the land site and designed structures for Camp Rapidan, the first presidential retreat in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia. Located along the Rapidan River where President Hoover could fish, this secluded retreat allowed them to escape the heat of Washington summer. The land was purchased and the buildings constructed at the Hoover’s expense. They donated the site to the United States for use by future presidents. Encouraged the Girl Scouts of America to help fight the illeffects of the Great Depression. Many troops donated weekly dues to purchase milk for infants and bread for bread lines. Her 27 year involvement with the Scouts dates back to 1917 and her friendship with Juliette Low. Lou Hoover twice served as president of the GSA. Under her guidance, leadership training programs were established, the nature program was enhanced, and the organization grew in numbers. Hired, at her own expense, a researcher and photographers to provide a complete documentary and pictorial catalogue of White House furniture and holdings. This project proved invaluable for historic preservation. Copies of this catalogue have been provided to the Curator of the White House for their reference. Was the first First Lady to deliver speeches over the radio. She encouraged public service by groups such as women, the Girl Scouts of America, and 4-H to help fight the Great Depression. In addition to the contributions provided by Mr. Schwartz, Mr. Olson provides the following additional contributions: Convinced Edith Wilson to accept the honorary role as president of the Girl Scouts. Every first Lady since has held that role. Created the ‘Lincoln Study’, later to become the ‘Lincoln Bedroom’. 103 Personally helped hundreds of people during the Depression. Paid 3 secretaries from own funds to handle aid requests. Used personal funds for aid requests and referred others to wealthy friends and the Red Cross. Many sent checks to repay Mrs. Hoover that were discovered uncashed after her death.