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Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 1 1 CCAC Public Meeting 2 3 4 5 Moderated by Dr. Lawrence Brown 6 Tuesday, April 18, 2023 7 8:06 a.m. 8 9 10 The U.S. Mint 11 801 9th Street Northwest 12 2nd Floor Conference Room 13 Washington, DC 20220 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Reported by: Matthew Yancey 21 JOB NO.: 5833637 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 List of Attendees: 3 Dr. Lawrence Brown, CCAC Chairperson 4 Kristie McNally, Deputy Director of the U.S. Mint 5 Megan Sullivan, Senior Design Specialist 6 Roger Vasquez, Senior Design Specialist 7 Pam Borer, Design Manager 8 Boneza Hanchock, Design Manager 9 Joseph Menna, Chief Engraver 10 Michael Costello, Manager of Design and Engraving 11 Jennifer Warren, Director of Legislative and 12 Intergovernmental Affairs; CCAC Liaison 13 Greg Weinman, CCAC Senior Legal Counsel 14 Robin Terry, Project Counsel for the Harriet Tubman 15 Bicentennial Commemorative Coin Program and the 16 Congressional Gold Medal - Afghanistan 17 18 Apryl Whitaker, Project Counsel for the Congressional Gold Medal - 6888th 19 Brendan Tate, Senior Government Affairs Specialist 20 Michael White, Office of Corporate Communication 21 Karen Hill, Harriet Tubman Home, Inc. President and 22 CEO www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 3 1 2 A P P E A R A N C E S (Cont'd.) Woodrow Keown, Jr., National Underground Railroad 3 Freedom Center for the Harriet Tubman 4 Bicentennial Commemorative Coin Program President 5 and COO 6 Edna Cummings, Producer and Six Triple Eight Advocate 7 Carlton Philpot, Chairman and Project Director of the 8 9 10 11 Six Triple Eight Monument Projects Tracy Bradford, U.S. Army Women's Museum Curator Holly Rotondi, Friends of the National World War II Memorial Executive Director 12 Arthur Bernstein, General Public Representative 13 Dr. Harcourt Fuller, Recommended by the Speaker of the 14 15 16 House Dr. Dean Kotlowski, Specifically Qualified in American History 17 Mike Moran, Recommended by the Senate Majority Leader 18 Donald Scarinci, Recommended by the Senate Minority 19 Leader 20 Dennis Tucker, Specifically Qualified in Numismatics 21 Dr. Peter van Alfen, Specifically Qualified as a 22 Numismatic Curator www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 4 1 2 3 4 5 A P P E A R A N C E S (Cont'd.) John Saunders, Recommended by the House Minority Leader Darla Jackson, Specifically Qualified in Medallic Arts or Sculpture 6 Kellen Hoard, General Public Representative 7 Paul Gilkes, Coin World, Senior Editor of Amos Media 8 Mike Unser, Coin News Media Group, LLC Founder and 9 Editor 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 5 1 C O N T E N T S 2 PAGE 3 Call to Order & Roll Call 6 4 Introduction and Swearing In of New CCAC Members 15 5 Review and Approval of Minutes and Letters 23 6 Review and Discussion of Candidate Designs for 7 the Harriet Tubman Bicentennial Commemorative 8 Coin Program 9 Review and Discussion of Candidate Designs for 26 10 the Congressional Gold Medal for the Members of 11 the Women's Army Corps Assigned to the 6888th 12 Central Postal Directory Battalion 13 Review and Discussion of Candidate Designs for 14 the Greatest Generation Commemorative Coin 15 Program 16 Review and Discussion of Candidate Designs for 17 The Congressional Medal Commemorating the 18 Servicemembers who Perished in Afghanistan on 19 August 26, 2021 196 249 343 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 6 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 DR. BROWN: Good morning. I call to 3 order this meeting of the Citizens Coinage Advisory 4 Committee for Tuesday, April 18, 2023. 5 is 8:06 -- 6 MS. WARREN: 7 DR. BROWN: And the time Yes. -- a.m. I'd like to remind 8 members of the committee participating virtually -- 9 few of us that are -- to mute their phone or 10 microphone on the Microsoft Teams program so that when 11 not talking as you announce your name prior to -- 12 excuse me. 13 that this is a listening only meeting. 14 Additionally I'd like to remind the public Before we begin I want to introduce the 15 members of the committee. I have the honor and 16 privilege of doing so. 17 "Present" when I call your name. 18 general public, Arthur Bernstein. My colleagues, please respond, 19 MR. BERNSTEIN: 20 DR. BROWN: 21 22 Representing the Present. Recommended by the Speaker of the House, Dr. Harcourt Fuller. DR. FULLER: Present. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 7 1 2 DR. BROWN: Specifically qualified in American History, Dr. Dean Kotlowski. 3 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 4 DR. BROWN: 5 Recommended by the House Minority Leader, Mr. John Saunders. 6 MR. SAUNDERS: 7 DR. BROWN: 8 Present. Present. Recommended by the Senate Majority Leader, Mr. Mike Moran. 9 MR. MORAN: Present. 10 DR. BROWN: Recommended by the Senate 11 Minority Leader, Mr. Donald Scarinci. 12 MR. SCARINCI: 13 DR. BROWN: 14 Present. Specifically qualified in numismatics, Mr. Dennis Tucker. 15 MR. TUCKER: Present. 16 DR. BROWN: 17 numismatic curator, Dr. Peter van Alfen. Specifically qualified as a 18 DR. VAN ALFEN: 19 DR. BROWN: Present. Specifically qualified in 20 medallic arts or sculpture, Darla Jackson. 21 MS. JACKSON: 22 DR. BROWN: Present. Representing the general www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 8 1 public, Kellen Hoard. 2 MR. HOARD: Present. 3 DR. BROWN: I am Dr. Lawrence Brown, 4 representing the general public, and again have the 5 honor and privilege of being the Chair of the CCAC. 6 believe we have a quorum. 7 I The agenda for today's meeting includes 8 the following. Swearing-in of our two new members of 9 the CCAC, Ms. Darla Jackson and Mr. Kellen Howard -- 10 Hoard; approval of the minutes and the letters to the 11 Secretary from the February 28th and the March 1st 12 meeting of the CCAC; review and discussion of the 13 candidate designs for the Harriet Tubman Bicentennial 14 Commemorative Coin Program; review and discussion of 15 the candidate designs for the Congressional Gold Medal 16 to the Members of the Women's Army Corps who were 17 assigned to the 6888th Central Postal Director 18 Battalion, known as the Six Triple Eight; review and 19 discussion of candidate designs for the Greatest 20 Generation Commemorative Coin Program; and review and 21 discussion of the candidate designs for the 22 Congressional Gold Medal commemorating the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 9 1 servicemembers who perished in Afghanistan on August 2 26, 2021, during the evacuation of citizens of the US 3 and Afghan allies at the Karzai International Airport. 4 Before we begin our proceedings, I ask 5 the Mint Liaison to the CCAC, Ms. Jennifer Warren, if 6 we are aware of any members of the press who have 7 remotely signed on to the public meeting? 8 MS. WARREN: 9 Hold on. There's a connection thing. Okay. I'm so sorry. Sorry. This is 10 Jennifer Warren. 11 editor of Amos Media; and Mike Unser, founder and 12 editor of Coin News Media Group, LLC. 13 Paul Gilkes from Coin World, senior DR. BROWN: For the record, I would 14 also like to confirm the following Mint staff in 15 attendance today. Please indicate present after I've 16 called your name. Deputy Director Kristie McNally. 17 MS. MCNALLY: 18 DR. BROWN: 19 Present. Megan Sullivan, Senior Design Specialist. 20 MS. SULLIVAN: 21 DR. BROWN: 22 Present. Roger Vasquez, Senior Design Manager. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 10 1 MR. VASQUEZ: 2 DR. BROWN: Pam Borer, Design Manager. 3 MS. BORER: Present. 4 DR. BROWN: Russell Evans, Design 5 Manager. 6 MS. WARREN: 7 DR. BROWN: 8 Present. He's not present. Boneza Hanchock, Design Manager. 9 MS. HANCHOCK: 10 Present. DR. BROWN: Joseph Menna, Chief 12 MR. MENNA: Present. 13 DR. BROWN: Michael Costello, Manager 11 14 Engraver. of Design and Engraving. 15 MR. COSTELLO: 16 DR. BROWN: Present. Jennifer Warren, Director 17 of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs and 18 liaison to the CCAC. 19 MS. WARREN: 20 DR. BROWN: 21 22 Present. Greg Weinman, senior legal counsel and counsel to the CCAC. MR. WEINMAN: Good morning. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Present. Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 11 1 DR. BROWN: Robin Terry, Project 2 Counsel for the Harriet Tubman Bicentennial 3 Commemorative Coin Program and the Congressional Gold 4 Medal commemorating servicemembers who perished in 5 Afghanistan on August 26, '21. 6 present. 7 MS. WARREN: 8 DR. BROWN: 9 She may not be She'll be present later. Okay. Got it. Apryl Whitaker, Project Counsel for the Congressional Gold 10 Medal to the members of the Women's Army Corps who 11 were assigned to the Six Triple Eight. 12 13 14 15 MS. WARREN: She'll be present later too. DR. BROWN: Actually I don't believe she will be present. 16 MS. WARREN: 17 DR. BROWN: Oh. We'll cover for her. 18 Brendan Tate, Senior Government Affairs Specialist at 19 the Office of Legislative and Governmental Affairs. 20 MR. TATE: 21 DR. BROWN: 22 Present. Michael White, Office of Corporate Communication. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 12 1 MR. WHITE: Present. 2 DR. BROWN: And finally I would really 3 love to -- I mean, I'd love -- I'm glad that we are 4 going to have liaisons in-person with us today. 5 please forgive me -- my enthusiasm. 6 time to time and get me off my game. 7 So It will show from We will be joined today by Karen Hill, 8 the president and CEO of the Harriet Tubman Home 9 Incorporated, and by Woodrow Keown, Jr., president and 10 COO of the National Underground Railroad Freedom 11 Center for the Harriet Tubman Bicentennial 12 Commemorative Coin Program. 13 For the Congressional Gold Medal to the 14 members of the Women's Army Corps who were assigned to 15 Six Triple Eight we will be joined by Edna Cummings, a 16 Six Triple Eight advocate and producer of a Six Triple 17 Eight documentary; Carlton Philpot, Chairman and 18 Project Director of the Six Triple Eight Monument 19 Projects; and Tracy Bradford, curator of the US Army 20 Women's Museum. 21 22 For the Greatest Generation Commemorative Coin Program the CCAC will be joined by www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 13 1 Holly Rotondi, Executive Director of the Friends of 2 the National World War II Memorial. 3 I believe that I speak on behalf of the 4 CCA that we are especially pleased to have the many 5 liaisons participating in the proceedings. 6 to begin with the Mint. 7 we need to address before we start? 8 9 I'd like Are there are any issues that Next I would like to take this opportunity -- and you might say a privilege of the 10 Chair -- to acknowledge our former member Robin 11 Salmon. 12 Robin served on the CCAC since 2020 -- 13 2018 when she was appointed by then-secretary Mnuchin 14 as a member specifically qualified in medallic arts or 15 sculpture. 16 served on the CCAC working crew from 2021. 17 During her tenure on the CCAC Robin also At a later date to be determined we 18 will invite Robin back to be here in person so we can 19 properly honor her. 20 out that I along with many of our colleagues are 21 grateful for her service and will miss her 22 contribution to the CCAC. But I want to make sure to point www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 14 1 Additionally Sam Gill has also played a 2 part as a member of the CCAC. 3 since 2018 when he was appointed by then-secretary 4 Mnuchin as a member who represents the interests of 5 the general public in coinage of the United States. 6 Sam served on the CCAC Sam will also be invited to be here in 7 person at a later date to properly honor him. 8 will be missed by myself and our colleagues. 9 are grateful for his service and contributions to the 10 He too And we CCAC. 11 One more word I think is important 12 about these two former members. 13 probably be no meeting of the CCAC with me serving as 14 a chair that I don't make any kind of analogy to 15 sports. 16 And there would Analogous to the recently completed 17 NCAA championship in college basketball and in hockey, 18 Robin and Sam were incremental in the CCAC's 19 championship run during fiscal year 2022, as evidenced 20 by the recommendations of the 15 programs submitted to 21 the Secretary of Treasury. 22 I needed to pause for effect. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 We will Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 15 1 now move to the first order of business -- in the 2 introduction and swearing-in of Ms. Darla Jackson, who 3 was appointed on March 23, 2023, as a new member 4 specifically qualified in medallic arts or sculpture; 5 and Kellen Howard -- Hoard, who was appointed on April 6 10th as one of the new members to represent the 7 interest of the public. 8 9 We will first begin with the swearingin of Ms. Darla Jackson. Ms. Jackson is a sculpting 10 professional for 20 years and is intimately familiar 11 with design elements and the process of creating 12 sculpture, including medallic art. 13 Ms. Jackson is an adjunct professor at 14 the Pennsylvania Academy of Fine Arts in Philadelphia, 15 where she also serves on the faculty committee. 16 Additionally Ms. Jackson served on the Board of the 17 Philadelphia Sculptures, a local sculpture 18 organization. 19 And to me I have the honor and pleasure 20 of knowing that she is also a proud mom. 21 so much. 22 McNally. So thank you I'll hand it over to Deputy Director www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 16 1 MS. MCNALLY: Okay. 3 MS. JACKSON: Thank you. 4 MS. MCNALLY: Right here. 5 MS. JACKSON: Thank you. 6 MS. MCNALLY: Okay. 2 Come on up and join me. All right. At 7 this time I'd like to welcome Darla Jackson. 8 Brown mentioned, Ms. Jackson has been a professional 9 sculptor for 20 years and is teaching sculpting to 10 As Dr. others. 11 We're extremely enthusiastic to welcome 12 her to the CCAC. 13 I'll have the honor of administering the oath of 14 office to you. 15 All right. Ms. Jackson, in a moment With this oath you will assume the 16 position of CCAC as a member specially qualified in 17 medallic arts and sculpture. 18 join a very select and prestigious group of 19 individuals invested in US coin and metals. By doing so you will 20 All right. Please raise your right 21 hand and repeat after me. 22 will support and defend the Constitution of the United I do solemnly swear that I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 17 1 States against all enemies foreign and domestic. 2 MS. JACKSON: I do solemnly swear that 3 I will support and defend the Constitution of the 4 United States against all enemies foreign and 5 domestic. 6 MS. MCNALLY: 7 and allegiance to the same. 8 MS. JACKSON: 9 and allegiance to the same. 10 MS. MCNALLY: That I will bear truth That I will bear truth That I take this 11 obligation freely without any mental reservation or 12 purpose of evasion. 13 MS. JACKSON: That I take this 14 obligation freely without any mental reservation or 15 purpose of evasion. 16 MS. MCNALLY: And that I will well and 17 faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which 18 I'm about to enter. 19 MS. JACKSON: And that I will well and 20 faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which 21 I am about to enter. 22 MS. MCNALLY: Ms. Jackson, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 18 1 congratulations. And welcome to the Citizens Coin -- 2 Coinage Advisory Committee. 3 to working with you. 4 words. Sorry. We look forward And I'll invite you to say a few Hopefully they prepared you for that. 5 MS. JACKSON: Thank you. Yes. I just 6 want to express my gratitude for you all having me 7 here. 8 And I feel like being able to have a say in this 9 amazing part of American history is really exciting. I'm very excited about sculpture in general. 10 And I would be remiss if I didn't thank 11 my family for all the support throughout all the years 12 and then also my daughter because I think that she 13 would be very proud. 14 and I think listening in. 15 And thank you to all of you. 16 Her and my husband are at home DR. BROWN: So thanks to all of them. Ms. Jackson, please allow 17 us and allow me to add my congratulations. 18 welcome on behalf of the CCAC. 19 the swearing-in of Mr. Kellen Hoard. And We will now turn to 20 Mr. Hoard is a student at the Elliott 21 School of International Affairs at George Washington 22 University. He has been an numismatist since the age www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 19 1 of 9 years of age. 2 And has since authored a dozen articles 3 in a wide variety of publications, spoken at many 4 events -- or in fact numismatists around the world -- 5 and worked as an intern at the famous Newman 6 Numismatic Portal and served as a member of the board 7 for the Pacific Northwest Numismatic Association. 8 Deputy Director, turning to you. 9 MS. MCNALLY: Thank you. At this time 10 I'd like to welcome Kellen Hoard. 11 mentioned, Mr. Hoard has been a collector since 9 12 years old and has been active in the numismatic 13 community. 14 As Dr. Brown For his work in numismatics he was 15 selected as the 2021 American Numismatic Association 16 Young Numismatist of the Year. 17 enthusiastic to welcome him to the CCAC. 18 We're extremely Mr. Hoard, in just a moment I have the 19 honor of administrating the oath of office to you. 20 With this oath you will assume the position on the 21 CCAC as a member specifically qualified in medallic 22 arts or sculpture. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 20 1 DR. BROWN: No, no. 2 MR. HOARD: As a member of the general 3 public. 4 MS. WARREN: 5 MS. MCNALLY: 6 MS. WARREN: 7 MS. MCNALLY: 8 9 10 General public. Okay. Mistake. My notes are incorrect. As a member of the general public. MR. HOARD: MS. MCNALLY: Thank you. By doing so you will join 11 a very select and prestigious group of individuals 12 invested in US coins and metals. 13 raise your right hand. 14 support and defend the Constitution of the United 15 States against all enemies foreign and domestic. 16 All right. Please I do so solemnly swear I will MR. HOARD: I do solemnly swear I will 17 support and defend the Constitution of the United 18 States against all enemies foreign and domestic. 19 MS. MCNALLY: 20 and allegiance to the same. 21 22 MR. HOARD: That I will bear truth That I will bear truth and allegiance to the same. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 21 1 2 MS. MCNALLY: obligation freely. 3 4 MR. HOARD: MS. MCNALLY: Without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion. 7 8 That I take this obligation freely. 5 6 That I take this MR. HOARD: Without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion. 9 MS. MCNALLY: And that I will well and 10 faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which 11 I am about to enter. 12 MR. HOARD: And that I will well and 13 faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which 14 I am about to enter. 15 MS. MCNALLY: 16 Congratulations. 17 Advisory Committee. 18 working with you -- Welcome to the Citizens Coinage We look forward to welcoming you, 19 MR. HOARD: 20 MS. MCNALLY: 21 22 All right. Thank you. And now I turn it over to you. MR. HOARD: Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 22 1 MS. MCNALLY: 2 MR. HOARD: You're welcome. Well, I only have a few 3 words -- first going back to when I was 9 years old 4 and first starting collecting. 5 did when I started collecting was I signed up to a 6 subscription of Coins Magazine. 7 And the first thing I And I went to -- and I went away to 8 YMCA summer camp. 9 package from my parents, which included my first copy 10 And I got in the mail a care of my subscription to Coins Magazine. 11 And in there they described the recent 12 work of the CCAC. 13 awfully weird. 14 all." 15 At the time I said, "That sounds And I'm not interested in that at And then, you know, now ten years later 16 I find myself extremely interested in the work you 17 guys do. I'm very grateful to be here. 18 I'm excited to work with you all as I 19 think I said in my initial application to this 20 committee that I really see the CCAC as a source and a 21 catalyst for reliable and accessible history and art 22 and education. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 23 1 And I'm excited to do that work with 2 you all. 3 work. 4 So thank you so much. DR. BROWN: And let's get to Kellen, please allow me to 5 add my congratulations on behalf of the CCAC. 6 look forward to a collaboration that will be unlike 7 any others that we've had. 8 differently generationally than many of us but because 9 of the fact that you are new. 10 And we Not because you are Thank you so much. The next order of business before this 11 committee is a review and approval of the CCAC minutes 12 and letters to the secretary from our public meeting 13 on February 28, 2023, and March 1, 2023. 14 any comments on the documents? 15 a motion to approve the minutes and the letters? 16 Are there Hearing none, is there MR. BERNSTEIN: Art Bernstein moves 18 DR. VAN ALFEN: Oh. 19 DR. BROWN: 17 approval. Van Alfen second. Primary Art, and Peter a 20 second. All those in favor except for Ms. Jackson, 21 Mr. Hoard, and those who are abstaining from this 22 vote, please signify by saying aye. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 24 1 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 2 DR. BROWN: Aye. Are there any objections in 3 motion? Hearing none, seeing none, we will now turn 4 to the next item on the agenda. 5 -- share what I feel are a significant issue. 6 I would like to read Almost two years ago the CCAC reviewed 7 tentative designs for their three-coin Negro Leagues 8 Baseball Commemorative Program with the Nego Leagues 9 Museum -- Baseball Museum, serving as the recipient 10 11 organization. After a recent visit to Kansas City I 12 can wholeheartedly recommend that the museum features 13 a collection of artifacts, exhibits, and displays that 14 provide a comprehensive look at the history of the 15 Negro League Baseball, the sport of baseball itself, 16 and that era of American history. 17 The second item I'm going to share with 18 you is something that I cannot say too often. 19 an undeniable privilege as CCAC Chair to participate 20 in the education of the public and the numismatic 21 community regarding the role of the CCA in the design 22 of commemorative and circulating coins of the United www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It is Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 25 1 States. 2 For this reason I want to thank those 3 who have sent questions or suggestions to the CCAC -- 4 emailed info@ccac.org -- dot gov, excuse me. 5 say that again. 6 Let me Info@ccac.gov. Let me assure all those who have done 7 so that the matters that you have raised will be 8 reviewed. 9 be also held at a future CCAC meeting. And the results of such a discussion will 10 April 23, 2023, will mark the 20th 11 anniversary of the authorization of the Citizens 12 Coinage Advisory Committee of the first meeting of the 13 CCAC being held on May 15, 2003. 14 I believe that we -- I can speak for 15 all those present that when I say that we are thankful 16 for the foundations of our predecessors have 17 established. 18 The next item on our agenda is to 19 review the candidate designs for the Harriet Tubman 20 Bicentennial Commemorative Coin Program authorized by 21 Public Law 117-163. 22 Mint's Office -- I'm sorry. Megan Sullivan, Chief of the Supervisor of Design www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 26 1 Management will introduce the program and present 2 obverse and reverse candidate designs for this 3 program. 4 5 MR. VASQUEZ: designs today. 6 7 DR. BROWN: Thank you. MR. VASQUEZ: you. Thank you, Mr. Vasquez. It's always good to have good teamwork. 8 9 I'll be presenting Yes. All right. I'll provide our introduction. Thank So Public Law 10 117-163, the Harriet Tubman Bicentennial Commemorative 11 Coin Act, which I'll refer to as the act, recognizes 12 the bicentennial of Harriet Tubman's birth. 13 instructs the design shall be emblematic of her legacy 14 as an abolitionist. 15 The act Harriet Tubman was born enslaved as 16 Araminta "Minty" Ross on a Maryland plantation around 17 the year 1822. 18 the fall of 1849 with the help of the Underground 19 Railroad network. 20 Tubman freed herself from slavery in Though she had found freedom in 21 Pennsylvania, she braved the perilous journey 22 repeatedly -- returning to Maryland 13 times over the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 27 1 next decade to personally guide about 70 more people 2 from slavery to freedom and provided instructions for 3 approximately 70 additional people who found their way 4 to freedom on their own. 5 Despite laws that put her life at risk 6 and made the journey increasingly dangerous and long, 7 Tubman stated at a women's suffrage convention in 1896 8 that she never lost a passenger as a conductor on the 9 Underground Railroad. 10 Harriet Tubman made the connection 11 between her work leading people to freedom and the 12 efforts of the Union Army during the US Civil War. 13 She joined the Union Army as a nurse in 14 1862 and served in multiple roles, including as an 15 Army scout and spy for military leaders who recognized 16 her abilities. 17 Tubman proved an exceptional leader, 18 recruiting newly-freed men into regiments of African 19 American soldiers and distinguishing herself as the 20 first woman to lead an armed expedition in the Civil 21 War -- the Combahee River raid -- resulting in more 22 than 700 enslaved people in South Carolina being www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 28 1 freed. 2 After the Civil War, Harriet Tubman 3 spent the rest of her life -- 54 years -- living in 4 the abolition stronghold of Auburn, New York. 5 There Tubman remained resolute in the 6 causes she fought for and continued to work to provide 7 the means necessary to care for newly-freed enslaved 8 people, including the young and elderly. 9 Whether working her farm at her 32-acre 10 homestead or giving speeches in support of women's 11 suffrage, civil rights, and access to health care not 12 only for African Americans but for all people, Tubman 13 was a visionary, a leader, and a beacon for liberty. 14 Her life was characterized by her 15 unwavering determination and active pursuit of freedom 16 in every aspect of American life. 17 Candidate designs for this program were 18 developed of three periods of Tubman's life and 19 working life. 20 Silver dollar designs reflect her work 21 as a conductor on the Underground Railroad. 22 dollar designs represent her work during the Civil www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Half- Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 29 1 War. And the five dollar gold coin looks at her life 2 after the Civil War and into her later years. 3 Candidate designs are presented in that order in 4 alignment with the chronology of those periods. 5 Surcharges for the program are 6 authorized to be paid to the National Underground 7 Railroad Freedom Center in Cincinnati, Ohio and the 8 Harriet Tubman Home, Incorporated in Auburn, New York 9 for the purpose of accomplishing and advancing their 10 missions. 11 The Mint worked with representatives of 12 the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center and 13 the Harriet Tubman Home in developing the design 14 portfolio. 15 16 Is it appropriate, Dr. Brown, for me to introduce the liaisons or go ahead and -- 17 DR. BROWN: Yes, sir. 18 MS. WARREN: 19 MR. VASQUEZ: Yes. Okay. So I would like to 20 introduce the liaisons. You did an amazing 21 introduction earlier. 22 Hill from the Harriet Tubman Home and Woodrow But I'd like to welcome Karen www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 30 1 Keown -- Woody -- from the National Underground 2 Railroad Freedom Center. 3 DR. BROWN: You may also offer them -- 4 if they want to say a word or two with respect to 5 design that would be wonderful. 6 7 MR. VASQUEZ: 10 Karen, would you mind sharing a few words about -- 8 9 Okay. MS. HILL: words for Harriet. Of course. I always have This is a momentous occasion. And you should take your work very seriously. 11 I would hope that with the minting of 12 these coins that number one that we refer to educating 13 America about the great work that's done by this 14 amazing US Mint but that -- and that we're also 15 sharing Tubman's story. 16 And her story is extremely important. 17 People know a lot more about the Underground Railroad 18 certainly. 19 years as a free woman. 20 But they do not know that she lived 54 And so we want the coins to have a 21 clear expression of Tubman working to become a free 22 woman and what her life was like as a free woman. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 31 1 I'm just very happy. 2 And Harriet Tubman bequeathed her 3 legacy ten years before she passed away to the African 4 Methodist Episcopal Zion Church to establish an 5 independent not-for-profit to manage that legacy, 6 which I manage on behalf of them. 7 And I think that throughout the United 8 States the Black church -- all denominations -- have 9 had a -- freedom journey. 10 And this coin -- these coins are viewed as the next step. 11 Because everybody wants a piece of 12 Tubman and now we feel we finally have the ability to 13 make certain that people do. 14 have a piece of Tubman, tell her freedom story, and 15 pass it on to generations. 16 17 18 MR. VASQUEZ: These three coins will Woody, do you have any words? MR. KEOWN: Sure. Thanks, Karen. I 19 appreciate that. And I on behalf of our board of 20 directors, our staff and volunteers for the National 21 Underground Railroad Freedom Center would like to 22 thank all of you for this opportunity to commemorate www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 32 1 and really recognize a very iconic leader of the 2 United States of America. 3 We think that -- well, I've learned 4 from this process. 5 Ms. Tubman's life has really grown quite a bit through 6 the process of working with Karen and Annette as we've 7 gone -- really got into the details of ensuring that 8 we were really representing an authentic Harriet 9 Tubman. 10 My knowledge and understanding of And I think that these coins offer an 11 opportunity to share a more complete story about her, 12 what she's done, her contributions to freedom and 13 around this country. 14 And I as I traveled around the world 15 quite a bit in my previous life I think that she also 16 is recognized universally around the world as very 17 significant, very American, helping to guide people. 18 I think it also is an opportunity to 19 recognize the significant role that women, 20 particularly women of color, played in the development 21 of our country. 22 to do that. And I think that this is a great way www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 33 1 And finally I'd like to say thank you 2 to Roger and the entire Mint team. 3 outstanding in terms of being able to work with us and 4 ensure that our views and perspectives were heard and 5 valued and respected through this process. 6 They have been And it's just been a joy working with 7 them. And as we've become familiar and introduced to 8 more members of the team -- very, very impressed with 9 the US Mint in general and proud to be a part of this 10 significant program. 11 opportunity to be here today. 12 So thank you very much for this MR. VASQUEZ: Okay. Thank you very 13 much. Pleasure working with you both. And the same. 14 All right. 15 design descriptions while Pam Borer presents the 16 designs. So I'm going to go ahead and read our 17 So first thing I should mention is that 18 designs are include the following required 19 inscriptions. 20 liberty, In God We Trust, and 2024. 21 have United States of America, E. Pluribus Unum, and 22 the denomination. On the obverse we have Harriet Tubman, On the reverse we www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 34 1 Please note that there will likely be a 2 need once recommended designs are identified by 3 advisory committees to improve upon the likenesses of 4 Harriet Tubman. 5 The Mint will work closely with the 6 designer, the chief engraver, and the liaisons to 7 refine the portraits in order to best represent her. 8 9 10 So starting with the silver obverse designs we have HT-S-O-01. This design depicts Harriet Tubman offering her hand to the viewer. 11 Harriet's serious and searching 12 expression with concerted eye contact challenges the 13 viewer to seize the opportunity for freedom. 14 design is a preference of both of our liaisons. 15 This Next design, HT-S-O-02, depicts Harriet 16 Tubman offering her hand, ready to lead the viewer 17 over a fence, navigating by the stars and the night 18 sky. 19 Design HT-S-O-04 and HT-S-O-05 features 20 close-up portraits of Harriet Tubman. 21 includes the inscription, "The Underground Railroad" 22 in addition to the other required inscriptions. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Design 4 And Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 35 1 HT-S-O-04 is a preference of both of our liaisons. 2 HT-S-O-07 depicts Harriet Tubman 3 looking back confidently as she leads another person 4 by hand, symbolic of her work as a conductor on the 5 Underground Railroad. 6 In the background is a wide open 7 landscape with a rising sun, symbolic of the liberty 8 she is leading her passengers to. 9 between the hands continues on HT-S-R-07. 10 The connection Design 8 shows Harriet Tubman as a 11 conductor on the Underground Railroad. 12 passengers are with her, including three at the 13 background boat. 14 Five The river, trees, moon, and stars 15 provide the setting for their journey. 16 preference of the National Underground Railroad 17 Freedom Center. 18 obverse eight. 19 Design 8 is a And that was obverse eight -- silver Moving on to the silver reverse 20 designs. HT-S-R-01 features silhouettes traveling 21 across a bridge created by a pair of clasping arms. 22 In the sky above the Big Dipper constellation points www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 36 1 to the North Star, which forms the O in "of". 2 design is a preference of the liaisons. 3 This Design 2 shows two hands grasping 4 chains, breaking them apart. 5 Dipper constellation points to the North Star, which 6 again forms the O in "of". 7 In the sky above the Big Design 3 shows Harriet Tubman in 8 silhouette on the path to freedom. The road leading 9 to her represents that path to freedom. Additional 10 inscriptions read, "The Moses of her people" and 11 "free". 12 Design 4 portrays Harriet Tubman as she 13 reaches up to help a passenger start their journey to 14 reach freedom with the sun shining in the background. 15 The additional inscription reads, 16 "Never lost a passenger" -- a testament to Tubman's 17 success as a conductor on the Underground Railroad. 18 Design 4 is a preference of the liaisons. 19 And the National Underground Railroad 20 Freedom Center expressed that the design epitomizes 21 her leadership in the Underground Railroad. 22 Design 7 shows passengers on the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 37 1 Underground Railroad as they travel through the woods 2 at night on the perilous journey to freedom. 3 The hand connects the passengers to 4 Harriet Tubman, as seen in Obverse seven -- so for 5 Obverse seven. 6 "Come through". 7 The additional inscription reads, Design 8 synergizes with the 2023 Ohio 8 American Innovation one dollar coin reverse. It 9 depicts two strong hands grasped together, the upper 10 arm pulling the lower arm upward, representing the 11 support and strength of the Underground Railroad. 12 A chain fastened to a rustic shackle 13 around the lower arm's wrist snaps in fragments, 14 alluding to the hope of freedom. 15 inscription reads, "Underground Railroad". 16 The additional Let's move on to the clad obverse 17 designs. I'll note that some of the imagery on these 18 clad coins may need to be slightly modified to 19 accurately reflect a jacket Tubman would have worn at 20 the time. 21 So starting with HT-C-O-01 and HT-C-O- 22 02, both designs portray Harriet Tubman during the US www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 38 1 Civil War. And Design 1 and Design 2 are favored by 2 the Harriet Tubman Home. 3 Design 3 shows Harriet Tubman carrying 4 a US flag with the inscription, "I crossed the line", 5 a paraphrase of her quote, "I crossed the line. 6 free." 7 Design 4 depicts Harriet Tubman. I was In 8 the background two Civil War era boats represent the 9 Combahee River raid. 10 Tubman distinguished herself as the 11 first woman to lead an armed expedition in the Civil 12 War, the Combahee River raid, resulting in more than 13 700 enslaved persons in South Carolina being freed. 14 HT-C-O-04 is a preference of both of our liaisons. 15 Design 5 portrays Harriet Tubman in her 16 role as a Union Army nurse. 17 knowledge of medicinal plants are depictions of wild 18 black cherry, sassafras, Burdock root, and the flower 19 of the paw paw tree. 20 Representing her Design 6 depicts Harriet Tubman holding 21 a spyglass, symbolic of her work as a scout and a spy 22 for the Union Army during the US Civil War. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Behind Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 39 1 her, a row of Civil War era tents line the horizon. 2 Additional inscriptions include "Civil War", "Nurse", 3 "Scout", "Spy", and "Combahee River Raid Leader". 4 Design 7 depicts Harriet Tubman holding 5 an American flag with a pattern of stars used during 6 the US Civil War, offering her hand to the viewer as 7 if compelling them to join the effort. 8 9 Tubman recruited newly-freed African American men to join regiments of African American 10 soldiers. 11 liaisons. 12 And Design 7 is a preference of the Going to the clad reverse designs, HT- 13 C-R-01 shows a map with Harriet Tubman's hand pointing 14 to the location of Combahee Ferry, South Carolina. 15 The additional inscription reads, "Combahee Ferry". 16 Design 2 shows Harriet Tubman scouting 17 or spying for the Union Army. 18 include, "Come through", 1862 eight dash eight -- dash 19 65 -- excuse me -- "Nurse", "Scout", and "Spy". 20 Additional inscriptions Design 3 silhouettes the additional 21 inscription "Free" and a vertical broken chain. 22 design is a -- is favored by the Harriet Tubman Home. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 This Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 40 1 Designs 5 and 7 depict Harriet Tubman 2 holding a spyglass, symbolic of her work as a scout 3 and a spy for the Union Army during the US Civil War. 4 Additional inscriptions include "Civil 5 War", "Nurse", "Scout", "Spy", and "Combahee River 6 Raid Leader". 7 era tents lining the horizon. 8 Tubman in silhouette. 9 Design 5 includes a row of Civil War And Design 7 shows Design 5 is a preference of the 10 liaisons. 11 Center noted the connection to the Combahee River Raid 12 -- a historically significant event. 13 The National Underground Railroad Freedom Design 8 shows Harriet Tubman in 14 silhouette on the path to freedom. 15 to her represents that path to freedom. 16 inscriptions read, "Civil War", "Nurse", "Scout", 17 "Spy", and "Free". 18 The road leading Additional Now we move on to the gold obverse 19 designs. HT-G-O-01, Design 01A, Design 2, 4, 5, and 6 20 portray Harriet Tubman in her years after the Civil 21 War. 22 Home in which she appears approachable. HT-G-O-01A is a preference of the Harriet Tubman www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 41 1 Design 4 is a preference of the 2 National Underground Railroad Freedom Center for the 3 look of determination, confidence, and defiance seen 4 in the portrait of Harriet Tubman. 5 favored by the Harriet Tubman Home. 6 And Design 6 is Moving on to the gold reverse designs, 7 HT-G-R-01 and 01A depict a two-handed gesture 8 symbolizing Harriet Tubman's efforts throughout her 9 life to help and care for people. 10 Emblematic of her life's work, Design 1 11 includes Harriet Tubman's final words, "I go to 12 prepare a place for you." 13 01A includes Harriet Tubman's seven 14 core values passed down from generation to generation. 15 Those are faith, freedom, family, community, self- 16 determination, social justice, and equality. 17 01A is a preference of the liaisons. 18 Design Design 2 depicts Harriet Tubman 19 standing with the Harriet Tubman Home for Aged and 20 Indigent Negroes in the background. 21 22 The home provided care for formerly enslaved people. And Tubman lived there herself in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 42 1 her later years. 2 included. 3 The additional inscription "Free" is Design 3 depicts a plaque with Harriet 4 Tubman's seven core values. 5 represents a roof that together with the key signify 6 shelter while the apples signify Tubman's work on her 7 Auburn, New York farm to sustain those who she cared 8 for. 9 The peak of the plaque The inscriptions read, "Values", 10 "Faith", "Freedom", "Family", "Community", "Self- 11 determination", "Social Justice", and "Equality". 12 Design 3 is favored by the Harriet 13 Tubman Home and is the secondary preference of the 14 National Underground Railroad Freedom Center for its 15 inclusion of the seven core values. 16 Designs 5 and 5A feature Harriet 17 Tubman's open hand in an offering of guidance and 18 help. 19 "Always the guiding hand to freedom, faith, and 20 family". 21 22 Design 5 includes the additional inscription, Design 05A includes the seven core values and the additional inscriptions reading, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 43 1 "Faith", "Freedom", "Family", "Community", "Self- 2 determination", "Social Justice", and "Equality". 3 Design 5 is a preference of the 4 National Underground Railroad Freedom Center. 5 preference of the Harriet Tubman Home. 6 Underground Railroad Freedom Center favored Design 5 7 for the extended hand and the inscriptions. 8 9 10 5A is a The National And that concludes the designs and design descriptions. I'd like to turn the matter back over to Chairperson Brown. 11 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Really 12 appreciate that. 13 technical or legal questions from the committee about 14 this program or these designs? 15 Dean? 16 To the committee, are there any DR. KOTLOWSKI: Okay. I'm sorry. Roger, this Dean 17 Kotlowski. 18 clarify the last preference of the National 19 Underground Railroad Freedom Center? 20 that they prefer? 21 22 Roger, this is a question. MR. VASQUEZ: Could you Is it 5 or 5A Five is the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center's preference. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 44 1 5A is the preference of the Harriet Tubman Home. 2 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 3 MR. VASQUEZ: 4 DR. BROWN: 5 MR. BERNSTEIN: Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Art? This is Art Bernstein. 6 I have two questions -- one in general for today's 7 deliberations. 8 transmitting these -- this portfolio indicated that 9 the Commission on Fine Arts was meeting today. 10 The letter from the director assume that's not correct? 11 DR. BROWN: 12 MR. BERNSTEIN: 13 DR. BROWN: 14 I It's not correct. Have they met? They're meeting on Thursday. 15 MR. BERNSTEIN: Okay. So we don't know 16 their preferences. 17 regard to the design that uses the phrase, "The Moses 18 of her people" -- I was wondering where that phrase 19 came from? 20 And my question, Roger, with MR. VASQUEZ: 21 question for my liaisons. 22 it is the title of a book. This might be a better However as I understand it, And she was also referred www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 45 1 to as Moses during her time on the Underground 2 Railroad. 3 Karen, do you want to expand on that? MS. HILL: Of course, Roger. Sarah 4 Bradford wrote the first biography of Harriet Tubman. 5 And it was considered a biography because, as you well 6 know, Tubman could neither read nor write. 7 But she was described by those who she 8 aided in their quest as the Moses of her people. 9 so the first -- both the first and the second editions 10 of Sarah Bradford's autobiographies had Harriet 11 Tubman, Moses of her people. 12 MR. BERNSTEIN: 13 DR. BROWN: 14 MR. SCARINCI: Thank you. Donald? Excellent job 15 presenting, Roger. 16 little unusual in the sense that we have three 17 separate liaisons. 18 selected to a large degree some different coins, 19 although -- coin designs. 20 And The question I have is this is a And they go -- they seem to have You know, although you've given a clue 21 to how we can coalesce at least as to the reverse of 22 one because of the preference with the extended hand www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 46 1 and the preference with the plaque. 2 But have you, you know, have you -- I 3 assume you've attempted to reconcile with all three 4 liaisons and tried to get a consensus opinion from all 5 three as to each design. 6 this case? 7 8 Were we unable to do that in MR. VASQUEZ: Small correction. We just have the two liaisons -- just the two liaisons. 9 MR. SCARINCI: 10 MR. VASQUEZ: Oh, two liaisons. And I think there's a 11 value in the multiple design preferences that were 12 named to help provide some context for what they might 13 have been looking for specifically in designs. 14 I think there was -- there were a 15 number of designs that were acceptable. 16 that the discussion here today might also include 17 design preferences ultimately. 18 DR. BROWN: 19 DR. VAN ALFEN: And I think Peter? I have two questions 20 actually -- one for Joe. This has to do with the 21 reverse. 22 reverse of both of our liaisons. This is silver reverse 01, the preferred If I'm reading this www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 47 1 correctly the figures in silhouette would be incused; 2 correct? 3 MR. MENNA: This is the -- 4 DR. ALFEN: And so the hands then would 5 be slightly raised and then the background with the 6 stars would also be slightly raised as well too; is 7 that correct? 8 9 10 MR. MENNA: This is Joseph Menna. I believe that that would be incused. Yes; And likely what reads as an excerpt would also be polished as well. 11 DR. ALFEN: All right. The second 12 question I have is for our chair. 13 large portfolio. 14 consider each of the coinages separately rather than 15 as a group as we go through. 16 17 This is a rather And I'm wondering if we could DR. BROWN: Is there any other -- sounds like a motion? 18 DR. ALFEN: Yeah. 19 DR. BROWN: Is there a second? 20 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 21 DR. BROWN: 22 the motion? I second. Is there any discussion on Hearing none, all those in favor, aye? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 48 1 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 2 DR. BROWN: Aye. Opposed, nay? Motion 3 carries. 4 Are there any other technical or legal questions from 5 the committee? 6 Do you want to begin a discussion on that? I do have one. I was wondering, Joe, 7 if you can share with the committee -- since on these 8 designs a number of the design elements are small and 9 others are large -- the question that I have is that 10 once the coins are actually minted are we going to be 11 able to really recognize well enough the smaller 12 design elements -- for example, the individuals 13 that -- in the boat in one of the designs? 14 I just want to make sure that we get a 15 sense. 16 the fantastic work by the artist that you oversee -- 17 it looks phenomenal. 18 those small design elements are going to be adequately 19 reflected based on your experience? 20 Because when we see the picture here that -- The question I have is whether MR. MENNA: This is Joseph Menna. 21 small correction. I don't oversee the artist. 22 the Office of Design Management's job. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 One That's I think the Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 49 1 only part of -- I'm not the committee. 2 But it's the gold that's most 3 problematic when it comes to scale. 4 think one of the portraits would read most strongly at 5 that scale. 6 it's always challenging in gold. 7 And I would -- I The reverses are all challenging. But I would also bring to the committee's 8 attention it would appear to be -- to favor obverse -- 9 the extended hand. 10 And they're essentially a flipped drawing, which is not bad. 11 There's no failure on our part there. 12 The artist ought to do more images like that. 13 just I would take note that it won't be recommended 14 unless you have the same over here to inscribe. 15 That's all. 16 to the committee. 17 Thank you. DR. BROWN: But Not that that's not obvious Should the committee 18 members choose to exchange designs between different 19 metals here is that something that you would recommend 20 or you would in fact discourage? 21 22 So for example, committee chooses to in fact have this design that's on the silver be placed www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 50 1 on the gold. 2 reasonable, existential, possible, or something you 3 would not recommend? 4 Is that something that you feel is MR. MENNA: This is Joseph Menna again. 5 That is something I would not recommend despite 6 expressing scale considerations with the gold. 7 It would be tough -- it would be even 8 more difficult to take something designed for a 9 palette of, say, silver and shrinking it down to a 10 gold. It would most likely become even further 11 illegible. 12 I do believe the gold portfolio meets 13 all of our requirements to be legible. 14 templates for the text and all that stuff. 15 saying there's a challenge -- there's always a 16 challenge. 17 We have Just That's all. I'm not saying any of the one -- any of 18 the candidates are not qualified to be in that 19 portfolio. 20 It's just always a challenge. And mixing and matching scales of these 21 commemoratives -- it's easier to go silver to clad. 22 But to take either clad or silver and go down to gold www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 51 1 -- that's where it gets problematic. 2 would say. 3 DR. BROWN: That's what I And let me just say, Joe, 4 that that's really helpful to the public because I'm 5 sure there are many people out there that wondered 6 whether that was possible. 7 us to really drill into those questions. 8 MR. MENNA: Thank you. 9 DR. BROWN: Are there any other And your explanation helps 10 technical or legal questions from the committee? 11 Based on the motion that was approved, may I suggest 12 that we consider in the order in which it was 13 presented by Roger? 14 Is that reasonable? Okay. So let us begin our consideration. I'd 15 like to remind members of the committee to please keep 16 your comments to five minutes or less and to identify 17 yourself for the record prior to speaking. 18 Additionally if any members have 19 questions or comments on any program we will consider 20 them at the end of this discussion to include if 21 necessary further feedback from our liaisons. 22 let's begin with the silver. So And let's begin with www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 52 1 none other than Dr. Harcourt Fuller. 2 DR. FULLER: Thank you, Dr. Chair. 3 Thank you to everyone. It's always great and it's 4 always a privilege to be able to opine on the 5 wonderful designs that we are presented with as 6 members of the CCAC. 7 I would like to extend a warm welcome 8 to the liaisons for this portfolio as well as to the 9 other liaisons who might be present for the other 10 portfolios. 11 Before I get into the design let me, 12 Dr. Chairman, take this opportunity to highlight how 13 important today is with respect to recognizing Harriet 14 Tubman, who will be on a coin. 15 Harriet Tubman will join many other 16 Black women, women of African descent across the world 17 and Africa and the Caribbean and even North America 18 who have been immortalized on coinage and also bank 19 notes. 20 right? 21 22 I shouldn't have said many but several; all If I may be permitted, I'd like to mention a few women who have already been depicted on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 53 1 coinage in different countries. 2 Nanny of the Maroons in Jamaica, Sanite 3 Blair and Catherine Lon on Haitian currency -- bank 4 notes in that sense, Viola Desmond in Canada on a bank 5 note, Nana Yaa Asantewaa on a bank note in Ghana. 6 So I think that it's very timely that 7 Tubman is finally taking her place in the world of 8 coinage, bank notes, money. 9 wonderful day. 10 So this is indeed a I also want to open up with a question 11 the liaisons. 12 times when, you know, when an artist wants to depict 13 something and the artist understands what he or she is 14 trying to say on the one hand. 15 Can we go to 01, please? There are And then on the other hand we have to 16 as a committee consider how the public might interpret 17 what the artist is trying to do. 18 So my question is would you explain 19 again for us what this gesture means about when 20 Harriet Tubman is holding her hand out kindly? 21 DR. BROWN: 22 MS. HILL: Karen? Okay. This is Karen Hill. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 54 1 Harriet Tubman lived for 91 years with an open hand, 2 with an open heart to everyone. 3 freedom because freedom wasn't available to where she 4 was. 5 She only sought She had an open hand when she 6 established her infirmary on the property that she 7 owned where she provided free medical care to both 8 Whites and Blacks. 9 An open heart, an open hand. 10 that's how she lived her life. 11 freedom. 12 static. And She activated her It wasn't something that -- it wasn't It was consistent. 13 And it was virtual. And I saw it was 14 virtual because she was known around the world for 15 having an open heart. 16 In fact when Ms. Tubman was gravely ill 17 the New York Times characterized her -- and the New 18 York Times is, you know, a publication of record known 19 around the world. 20 They carried her funeral. She had an open hand. She activated 21 her freedom. And that's really important because if 22 she didn't activate it then she would have a closed www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 55 1 fist. And that's not the way she lived. 2 encouraged others to do the same. 3 DR. FULLER: She Thank you very much. I 4 know I'm limited on time. 5 me because we have many designs with this whole thing 6 -- and I'm going to ask for your forgiveness because I 7 have to be honest. 8 misinterpret her hand as her begging. 9 I'm wondering if the public will MS. HILL: 10 DR. FULLER: 11 MS. HILL: 12 question. 13 beg. 14 people. 15 fruits and vegetables. 16 However if you would permit I think that's -Is that a fair question? I think that's a very fair And truth, there were times she did have to She was near bankruptcy. She cared for other She fed citizens of the small city of Auburn She established nine cottages on the 17 property to make sure that the indigent former slave 18 was able to live in dignity and grace as they became 19 more senior and more infirmed. 20 As I said earlier, she established a 21 hospital for the cause of freedom. These are all 22 things she saw as the cause of freedom. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 56 1 And I'll be very honest. I have asked 2 Mr. Vasquez what, you know, what do we -- what is the 3 narrative going to look like that will accompany the 4 coin so that then the purchaser will know exactly what 5 we're talking about. 6 important that is so that the message is clear. And I am very serious about how 7 MR. VASQUEZ: 8 DR. FULLER: 9 10 Thank you very much. Yes. appreciate that explanation. So I believe -- I And I will give that consideration. 11 I did want to highlight, if I may, 08 12 as one of the designs that I like. 13 that we see her leading people to freedom. 14 looking forward. 15 I like the fact She's very determined. And so this will be given much 16 consideration. 17 explained as well I will give the others 18 consideration. 19 But in light of what you have Thank you. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much for both 20 your comments and questions. 21 Kotlowski. 22 She is DR. KOTLOWSKI: Turn now to Dr. Dean Thank you, Mr. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 57 1 Chairman. I have a question for you. 2 the designs are we doing simply the obverse or the 3 obverse and the reverse for the silver? 4 5 DR. BROWN: When we review I'm going to recommend both obverse -- 6 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 7 DR. BROWN: 8 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 9 DR. BROWN: 10 DR. FULLER: Okay. -- and reverse. All right. Oh, did you -- question? Oh, if you wanted the 11 reverse let me just maybe go to the reverse. 12 just mention too 01. 13 silhouette. 14 I really like 01. I'll I like the And again I would have to be upfront 15 and say I'm not so enamored with the hands in front of 16 the silhouette. I really love the skyline and I love 17 the silhouette. I would love to hear what my 18 colleagues have to say. 19 I would also like to give some 20 consideration to 04. 21 is reaching down. 22 pulling up. I really like the fact that she In this case her hand is -- she's And of course there's the sun in the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 58 1 background indicating a brighter future. 2 will give high marks to that one as well. 3 Chairman. 4 5 DR. BROWN: Thank you. And so I Thank you, And thank you, Dean, for your question. 6 DR. KOTLOWSKI: Thank you, Mr. 7 Chairman. 8 seems so happy that Harriet Tubman is getting the 9 recognition in the coinage and elsewhere around the 10 I'll continue with my comments then. It country at this particular moment. 11 Just to speak to our two liaisons about 12 this -- I'll probably be looking a lot at both of you 13 as I make my comments here because I have a lot of 14 passion. 15 I love the coin design. 16 the three phases of her life. 17 conceived. 18 art is just wonderful. 19 better than others. 20 You know, it's And it's well- It's very well put together. I think the There are designs that I like Just a little bit of biography. 21 been to Auburn, New York. 22 And I lived on the Eastern Shore of Maryland. I've I'm from upstate New York. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I teach Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 59 1 at Salisbury University. 2 So I must confess I -- it was a long 3 time ago that I was at Auburn. 4 the Harriet Tubman house. 5 was unable to get in. 6 I saw the outside of It had limited hours so I But the William Seward home is there. 7 And the relationship between Seward and Tubman is 8 very, very important. 9 So I'm from Buffalo, New York 10 originally as a lot of people here know. 11 these kinds of connections. 12 So you get And here on the Eastern Shore the state 13 of Maryland has opened up a Harriet Tubman Visitors 14 Center dedicated to the Underground Railroad and an 15 automobile tour that you can take to the sites, 16 including the, you know, the Bucktown Store where 17 there was this incident when she was seriously wounded 18 that affected her later life. 19 very important. 20 So that's really very, The state of Maryland has been doing -- 21 and also as I was poking around on the internet there 22 was a Harriet Tubman Museum in New Jersey in Cape May. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 60 1 2 So all of this is extraordinarily important. And I also have been to the National 3 Underground Railroad Freedom Center in Cincinnati. 4 I'm a little bit of an adopted Midwesterner having 5 lived in Indiana. 6 But my field is mainly 20th-century US 7 presidents and civil rights policy. 8 kinds of connections. 9 So I have these And at my home university almost 20 10 years ago we did a teaching America history program. 11 We read Catherine Clinton's biography. 12 inspired Salisbury University to construct a -- and to 13 establish a statue of Harriet Tubman on campus. 14 And it So all of these are important ways in 15 which she is being recognized. 16 background and the throat clearing, Mr. Chairman. 17 Sorry for all of the I feel again -- looking at the designs, 18 just moving into them, I love the portraits. 19 and I actually love 5 as well. 20 sense of youth and determination. 21 that that's terrific. 22 I like 5. I love 4 I think 4 gives you a And I really think It seems to be just a little www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 61 1 bit softer. But I see the determination there. 2 like Dr. Fuller and like the liaison said, there was a 3 preference registered for Design No. 8. 4 And I want to focus most of my 5 attention, rather unusually, on the reverses. 6 want to talk about one design that hasn't been 7 mentioned that I felt was absolutely inspiring. 8 9 And And I I think there are two designs that stood out for me. One I would say was excellence. 10 And the other was brilliance. 11 opinion. Brilliance in my But I'm going to push the point. 12 I think No. 1 is excellent. 13 this design. 14 what Dr. Fuller was saying. 15 silhouettes -- I think the sky -- I think this is all 16 very effective. 17 messaging. 18 I think that the hands work. I love I do see I think the It comes together in terms of its It will be the silver dollar so it's 19 going to be the largest coin. 20 leeway that we have in terms of what we want to 21 represent in terms of small figures. 22 So there's a lot of Number 3 appealed to my emotions. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 62 1 the artistry here I think is just fantastic. 2 looking at Joe Menna. 3 is going to feel the way I do about this design. 4 I'm Again I don't know if anybody But I looked at this, Joe, and I 5 thought, "How did they do it? 6 How do they come up with something like this?" 7 mean this as a rhetorical question and a compliment at 8 the same time. 9 How do artists do this? And I You have the -- you have circularity. 10 You have harsh angles. You have a lot of negative 11 space. 12 have the messaging of the Moses of her people. You have an appropriate amount of text. 13 You But the figure of her is so small. And 14 that figure is so small but she looms so large here. 15 So what you've got here is something that is small and 16 large and looming. 17 I felt that it seems like she's on a 18 mountaintop of some sort. 19 of Moses. 20 King, Jr. going to the mountaintop and this kind of 21 metaphor. 22 So it fits in with the idea It fits with the idea of Martin Luther I looked at it. And I felt this one in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 63 1 the way it was designed captured her bold defiance of 2 racism and slavery and oppression. 3 there. 4 crossed and her head tilted slightly upward. She's standing You almost get a sense of her having her arms 5 So there is that defiance. 6 that triumph. 7 precarity here. 8 have been seized and re-enslaved or worse. 9 There's And there's also that sense of I mean, she could have at any point And this design -- I think it gives 10 much to the eyes and leaves much to the imagination. 11 And it was one that left me for one enormously moved. 12 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 13 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. I 14 really appreciate your comments. 15 have set the stage for others to come behind you. 16 would like to remind them we -- as much as possible if 17 we could stay within five minutes or less. 18 now to Art. 19 MR. BERNSTEIN: You and Dr. Fuller I Let's turn This is Art Bernstein. 20 With regard to the silver dollar obverses I have two 21 favorites -- Obverse 4 and Obverse 7. 22 preference of one of the liaisons. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Obverse 4 is a Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 64 1 To me it's a very traditional approach. 2 It clearly honors Harriet Tubman. 3 her and refers to her leadership of the Underground 4 Railroad. 5 And it demonstrates Obverse 7 hasn't been mentioned. And 6 this one really struck me. 7 the walking liberty design on some of our earlier 8 coinage. 9 To me I saw parallels with And I just thought this was a beautiful 10 design. And I really appreciate the hand reaching out 11 and the tie-in with the Reverse 7. 12 And now moving to the reverses I would 13 speak in favor of Reverse 7, which ties in with that 14 walking liberty obverse. 15 an appreciation for Reverse 4, the drama of Reverse 4. 16 Thank you. 17 18 DR. BROWN: And I also share with Dean Thank you so much. Let's turn now to Mike Moran. 19 MR. MORAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 20 interrupted my breakfast as usual. 21 though. 22 in the meeting though. You I am prepared Let me ask you a little indulgence later on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 65 1 For some reason my Zoom is eating up my 2 charge gradually. And at some point I'm going to have 3 to shut down and recharge. 4 lost me. So if you lose me, you've I'll come back when I have a charge. 5 Moving into the silver dollar, I like 6 the Obverse 1. I feel like it's a dignified portrait. 7 I think the hand referred the way it is is very 8 dignified. 9 I think I'm not troubled by anything 10 that you could assign to that hand reaching forward 11 because I think that the person that looks at that is 12 going to see it as an offer of help. 13 If we go to a couple of these that I 14 think try and do too much -- 2 is one of them that 15 does too much. 16 image. 17 There's just too much going on in that And I feel like although some of you 18 have liked No. 8 again I think it tries to do too 19 much. 20 palette of the silver dollar size to get all that out 21 there where you see it. 22 in the background. And it's going to be difficult even on a The trees are a distraction It's not going to work. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 66 1 Four and five -- I like them. They're 2 very distinctive. 3 have other palettes that we're going to be looking at, 4 particularly the gold piece, I think that we need to 5 do with a silver dollar. 6 But for a silver dollar when we And therefore I go to 07 because I 7 think it tells a great story. 8 the symbolism in it is just outstanding. 9 I was taken by it. And Turning to the reverses, I like most of 10 the committee like No. 1 on the reverses. 11 think it's outstanding. 12 silver dollar could do with that kind of diameter 13 to -- that the artists can deal with. 14 It tells so much. I just And only a The problem I have with 04 is that if 15 you use it and you depict 07 on the obverse you can't 16 do that. 17 It's too much. It's too similar. Eight I like. But I'm bothered by the 18 fact that it's close to the innovation dollar. 19 just think we can come up with a different design. 20 that's where I am on this, Dr. Brown. 21 22 But I do want to say one thing. And I I want to thank the liaisons for breaking this down into www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 67 1 three coherent phases of her life so that we're not 2 struggling with these images. 3 So often we do. And it allows us to focus on the art as 4 a committee rather than worrying about the story that 5 the three coins are trying to tell. 6 that's -- it's certainly made our job easier from this 7 point forward. 8 9 And I think Thank you. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Let's turn now to Dr. Peter van Alfen. 10 DR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 11 I just want to preface this by saying that I am quite 12 honored to be working on this portfolio. 13 really a wonderful opportunity to honor somebody who 14 is hugely important obviously in our national story. 15 This is And I would just also like to thank the 16 liaisons, Ms. Hill and Mr. Keown, for your comments 17 and your presence here today as well. 18 As Mike Moran pointed out, No. 1 -- it 19 is a rather dignified portrait -- portrayal of Harriet 20 Tubman. 21 of the gesture. 22 I'm also concerned about the interpretation And I am just from an artistic www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 68 1 standpoint that the extended hands might be somewhat 2 lost within that composition that's on the coin 3 itself. And it appeared a little muddled as it were. 4 And so while I like No. 1 quite a bit 5 my preference is more for No. 4 just because it's a 6 simpler design and very elegant portrayal of Harriet 7 Tubman as well. 8 9 For the reverse, No. 1 I find a -- just a fantastic design. It really is evocative of the 10 risks and dangers of the Underground Railroad as well 11 as the human connection. 12 wonderful design. 13 entirely. 14 15 I think it's just a And I'm willing to support that So thank you very much. DR. BROWN: Thank you. Let's turn now to Donald. 16 MR. SCARINCI: So for purposes of the 17 conversation it's always very important to look at the 18 size of the planchet; right? 19 instead of using an iPad you can very clearly see the 20 size. 21 22 When we print out here And this is very important, especially for the new members, to be attentive to because I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 69 1 think that really does make the difference between a 2 really great coin design and a not-so-great coin 3 design. 4 You know, I like the succession of 5 portraits where she, you know, where there's an aging 6 of her. 7 Very similar to what we did in the 8 presidential dollar series where every president was 9 depicted during -- except for Andrew Jackson because 10 of the Secretary's preference -- but every president 11 other than Jackson was depicted as he looked when he 12 was the president. 13 that. 14 And we deliberately chose to do This series has that potential; right? And so I think the accuracy of the 15 portraits that we're depicting on the three obverses 16 is really important. 17 So you know, so I do tend to like -- I 18 do like the extended hand. 19 symbolism that is very contemporary. 20 adds a dimension of meaning; right? 21 22 And I think it has a And I think that I am concerned though -- and also it does work, I would think, because it's on the silver www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 70 1 dollar size planchet; right? 2 on -- you know, but I think it would work on the 3 silver dollar size. 4 This coin would not work So we could go with this. I am a little concerned about the 5 accuracy of the portrait when we compare it to Design 6 04. 7 know, if I'm the only one that has that concern that 8 the portrait isn't from the period then, you know, 9 then I could go with 1. You know, and I guess if, you know, barring, you 10 But 4 might make a better -- if we go 11 with portraits like 4 on the others 4 might be the 12 better, you know, more conformed series for the whole 13 -- well, for the side we're -- so as to the reverse -- 14 and I'm watching my time so Dr. Brown doesn't take me 15 to task. 16 On the reverse -- on the silver reverse 17 do -- I mean, do we really have to have the stars on 18 No. 1? 19 we have to have the star, you know, it's okay. 20 Can't we have the negative space? Because if But I do like the silhouettes standing 21 on the clasped hands. I think that's a -- you know, 22 that's a very profound design. I would prefer it www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 71 1 without the stars unless people feel we need to have 2 the stars. 3 And I certainly prefer the art of No. 1 4 over the art of No 4. 5 does work again only because it's on the silver dollar 6 sized coin. 7 However having said that, No. 4 So if there is a -- you know, if there 8 is a desire, you know, depending on how we look at the 9 other coins in the series -- because I think we need 10 to look at the whole series, right, before we really 11 settle in on something. 12 But if we -- or you just want us to 13 decide on one or the other -- but if we are going to 14 go with a more complex design it would be No. 4. 15 would be an opportunity to do that. 16 This The other coins, particularly the gold 17 coin -- we just talked about that -- you know, we're 18 not going to have that opportunity, you know, to -- it 19 would be cluttered. 20 the planchet size. 21 22 It would be way too small given So I think, you know, I think it's really between -- I think it's really the preference, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 72 1 you know, and it's really -- and I was thinking to the 2 communed preferences because I think that the 3 committee selections have been very good. 4 I think they -- I think your 5 collaboration, you know, and your -- if you were the, 6 you know, leader on this, you know, you did a good job 7 managing this. 8 9 And you know, but I think you've given us some good recommendations. And I think in this 10 particular case, although I'm happy -- because I 11 remember saying this for our commemorative coin 12 program -- in this case I think they've given us 13 enough to work with on what their preferences are. 14 And so I was thinking my -- I'm 15 sticking with my comments to the liaisons' preferences 16 and just trying to come up with the best of them. 17 thank you. 18 19 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Let's turn now to Dennis. 20 MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 21 First of all I'd like to welcome Kellen Hoard and 22 Darla Jackson. I think you will enjoy your time on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 73 1 the committee. 2 participation. And I look forward to your 3 And I want to reinforce Mike Moran's 4 kudos to our liaisons. 5 also an upstate New Yorker. 6 in Syracuse and grew up in Phoenix, New York about 30 7 miles north of Auburn. 8 9 By the way, Ms. Hill, I am So greetings. I was born When it comes to Harriet Tubman most Americans are students of her life. And you, Ms. Hill 10 and Mr. Keown, you are teachers of her life, which 11 requires a much greater depth and breadth of nuanced 12 understanding. 13 So I appreciate the attention that 14 you've given on how to teach her life across this 15 group of coins. 16 Mike said, for this program and for the committee's 17 analysis of it. 18 It's a very helpful foundation, as And I will jump into my discussion of 19 the designs. I want to follow up on and thank Dr. 20 Kotlowski for his comments and analysis on Reverse 3. 21 This is a very remarkable design. 22 good about it. There's so much It's wonderful. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 74 1 My one concern with it, as fantastic as 2 it is, is that it presents Harriet Tubman from a kind 3 of, quote, "It's lonely at the top", unquote, 4 perspective. 5 And I think the importance of her 6 contribution to humanity was her connection with 7 others. She saved other people. 8 people. And she did this throughout her life. 9 She helped other So my preference among -- well, I'll 10 just let that preface my discussion of the obverses. 11 My strong preference is for Obverse 8 because it shows 12 that interaction. 13 But this is not a static portrait of 14 Harriet Tubman. 15 did, saving people through the Underground Railroad. 16 And I like the -- just the humanity of it, that human 17 connection. 18 This is her in action doing what she We get some of that in Nos. Obverse 1 19 and Obverse 2, Obverse 7 perhaps. 20 my eye Obverse 8 is the strongest depiction of that 21 humanity. 22 But in my mind to And for the reverses, Reverse 1 is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 75 1 just -- it's wonderful. This is a fantastic symbolic 2 and human depiction of her time saving people from the 3 Underground Railroad. 4 shared preference of both liaisons. I understand that this is a 5 By the way, I -- in my analysis I gave 6 the most attention because our liaisons had laid that 7 foundation or groundwork -- I gave most of my 8 attention to the designs that they preferred either 9 individually or jointly. 10 And I think Reverse 1 is perfect for 11 this coin. A combination of Obverse 8 and Reverse 1 12 gives us a very strong silver dollar. 13 To Mike Moran, I understand your 14 concern about designs trying to do too much on an inch 15 and a half diameter. 16 on the silver dollar size. 17 18 But I think that this will work DR. BROWN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you so much. Let's hear now from John, John Saunders. 19 MR. SAUNDERS: Thank you. Thank you. John 20 Saunders here. First I'd like to make a 21 comment about the commemorative year. 22 the theme -- the Underground Railroad and the Harriet www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It struck me as Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 76 1 Tubman in particular -- that's really needed. 2 When I was about 11 or 12 years old I 3 read about the Underground Railroad. 4 "What a fantastic thing that was for somebody to be 5 involved in." 6 And I thought, Then I found out the church I went to 7 had some people involved in it. 8 went to for one year had an one building from the 9 1840s. 10 And also a school I And they were involved in the Underground Railroad. 11 I remember going down to school I think 12 and seeing in the basement part of the stone walls -- 13 it was stone built. 14 out and put back up. 15 And it had been obviously knocked But you could just imagine that it was 16 a tunnel for the Underground Railroad. 17 truth it was probably an old coal chute that was 18 filled in. 19 I think in But you know, it -- the Underground 20 Railroad really struck my imagination when I learned 21 about it. 22 the time has come to do this. And I think this is something that it -It's past time. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 77 1 should have been done earlier. 2 But anyway, in terms of designs I 3 pointed this out before. 4 designs were -- in the design -- you know, in the most 5 consistent way to do it. 6 We look at every -- all the But the general public's just going to 7 pick it up and take a look at it real quick. 8 think we should verify what you see when you look at 9 it real quick. 10 And I I mean, like, Obverse 1 -- I had to 11 look at it closely to make sure that it was an 12 outstretched hand. 13 I mean, it -- clearly it is. But if you don't look at it closely it 14 could be her hands on her hips or something when you 15 first look at the coin. 16 design. 17 miss it if they're not looking at it closely. So I missed that part of the I didn't miss it. 18 But I think people might I really like Design 4. I like the 19 determination in her face. 20 that portrait does it. 21 portraits on busts or portraits on coins is a little 22 bit boring. Maybe. I mean, I just -- I think Someone else pointed out that But I still like it. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I like it a Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 78 1 lot. I like the design. 2 I like 07 too. I thought it was just 3 artistically pretty as well as there you see the 4 outstretched hand -- no question whatsoever. 5 I think Mike's point that it probably 6 doesn't go well with the, you know, pairing of Reverse 7 4 because kind of similar in theme and design -- I 8 like it. 9 probably first choice but it looked just fine to me. A way I like that it was -- wasn't my 10 Going to reverse designs, I like 01 11 like everybody else does. 12 Not much I can say about it beyond that. 13 it's great. 14 Looks good. It's just a great design. It's just Has good themes. I also like 04 although not quite so 15 well as 01 in terms of the art and so forth. 16 way it shows people reaching for the other hand is 17 nice and symbolic. 18 preferences in the reverse designs. 19 But the And those are my two strong So I'm going to listen to what 20 everybody else -- as always, I change my mind a little 21 bit before these meetings are over listening to other 22 comments. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 79 1 But I really like 1 and 4. 2 obverse design I like 4, 7, and 8. 3 preference is 4 right now. 4 5 DR. BROWN: And on the But probably my Thank you so much. Let's turn now to Kellen. 6 MR. HOARD: Thank you. One of the 7 things that I find, especially when I talk to younger 8 people, but in general with the public is that they 9 tend to not only be quite interested but connect a lot 10 nowadays with people who are -- basically break the 11 status quo. 12 I think Harriet Tubman was somebody who 13 did that in multiple different ways and in multiple 14 valuable ways. 15 And I think part of the reason they 16 connect to people who break the status quo so much, 17 especially for younger people, is that I think in the 18 world today there's a lot of status quos being broken. 19 And so what happens is when that's 20 happening and when things are changing rapidly and 21 there's a need for change it's necessary to kind of 22 look to what common values are held, what common www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 80 1 values we can look to as we try to figure out the path 2 forward. 3 I think the Harriet Tubman coin does 4 that very well because she was someone who espoused so 5 many values that are relevant still today. 6 For me she was a very dynamic leader 7 who basically just, like, never stopped in her entire 8 life. 9 She was not a woman who could sit down. And so for me that's why in general I'm 10 a little bit less passionate about the kind of 11 traditional bust portraits. 12 I think that is -- I think she is a 13 much -- we could break the status quo in that vein and 14 not just have a traditional bust of her but actually 15 show her in the action that she was doing her whole 16 life, highlighting those values that she had. 17 And so the one -- one of the ones that 18 spoke to me was Obverse 1. I thought that's a good 19 place to start with that's not just one of those 20 traditional busts but which actually again shows her a 21 little bit in action, inviting the viewer in, inviting 22 them to come with her not only in freedom and liberty www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 81 1 but also in the values that she shared and kind of 2 beckoning in in that way. 3 compelling. 4 And I found that I also like Obverse 7. Obverse 7 I 5 thought -- Art kind of beat me to it -- but I thought 6 it really was reminiscent of the 1986 Statue of 7 Liberty commemorative and walk of liberty half-dollar 8 as well. 9 I think it -- again it shows the 10 outstretched hand quite clearly. 11 her kind of bringing us again toward the rising tide 12 of liberty in a way that I find actually quite 13 exciting as a viewer. 14 And it seems to be And it makes me want to go with her, 15 which I think is important because I think we're 16 trying to highlight and celebrate her continued 17 relevance today not only as a historical figure but as 18 a -- kind of a moral leader. 19 emphasize. 20 That's important to In terms of the reverses, pretty much 21 everything's already been said about it. 22 1. But I like And there's not much more I would say that hasn't www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 82 1 already been said except that I just really think it's 2 elegant as well. 3 And not just -- it's not just 4 symbolically beautiful and artistically beautiful. 5 think it's just an elegant design. 6 I I have more to say kind of about her 7 work today. 8 the gold pieces. 9 But that's more relevant for the clad and So in general in terms of the -- some 10 of the other reverses that people have mentioned I 11 agree that 2 and 8 are a little bit much for this 12 design and that the other ones are comparatively more 13 elegant. 14 And by that I mean the obverse. Sorry. 15 Two and eight I thought were a little bit busy on the 16 obverse side of things. 17 So I would go with kind of the more 18 clean and compelling designs that do beckon me forward 19 as a viewer. 20 And I think there's opportunity to show 21 her action on other pieces in ways that are a little 22 bit more compelling and clear than that one. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So I Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 83 1 think that is -- yeah; that's it for me. 2 DR. BROWN: 3 Thank you so much. Turn now to Darla. 4 MS. JACKSON: Hello. This is Darla 5 Jackson. 6 the liaisons. 7 committee. 8 and also, you know, no pressure; right? 9 Thank you so much, Dr. Chair. Thank you to This is my first time sitting on this And such a big project so I'm very excited So I wanted to start off by saying what 10 you said about her having an open hand really 11 resonated not just with this first one but it was 12 something that kind of you picked up on throughout the 13 series. 14 And I think that that's a beautiful 15 thread to tie all of these things together as another 16 layer in addition to just her work in general. 17 And so the ones that I looked at 18 primarily -- I did enjoy the portraits. 19 I thought were fine. 20 Four and five However No. 1 of the obverse -- I did 21 think that this shows not so much action but the 22 beginnings of an action. Hand is outstretched. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It's Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 84 1 an offering. 2 The one I do want to also mention 3 because I dismissed it immediately is No. 2. 4 I feel like if the stars weren't there, which I do 5 think brings it to the more feeling of a storybook. 6 It feels too romanticized or illustrated. 7 However But if you took the stars and the moon 8 away this is action. 9 She's ready to go. 10 She has her hand outstretched. The only other thing with this is the 11 portrait feels off, which would need to be a little 12 adjusted. 13 want to mention it for that reason. 14 But I did enjoy this one as well and did In terms of the reverse I think that 15 No. 1 answers or completes the story of No. 1 in the 16 obverse and No. 2 in the obverse. 17 hand is then clasped. 18 You see what's happening because of this. That outstretched And the story is continued. 19 And so I also like the idea of there 20 being a star in the words United States of America. 21 feel like it's sort of a nod to someone adding an 22 important piece to the story of this country. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So I Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 85 1 those are my thoughts. 2 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. As 3 Chair I've come to appreciate that there is beauty in 4 brevity. 5 going to -- I've really come to appreciate and embrace 6 what they have to offer. So given the comments by my colleagues, I'm 7 I'm going to do a little bit of a 8 departure only because I believe that since this will 9 likely be one of the coins that are more accessible to 10 the public to purchase -- so I'm mindful of that 11 accessibility because the lesson particularly of 12 education is how much our public can have access to 13 the information. 14 So to me that's the reason why this 15 planchet really is important to tell the story. 16 much as it -- what I'm going to suggest is not 17 entirely embracing the recommendations of the 18 liaisons. As 19 But I do want to make sure to put out 20 there that what we choose actually helps to tell the 21 story. 22 narrative that goes with this is going to be so And I agree with the liaison that the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 86 1 important. 2 So to the extent to which the CCAC is 3 given an opportunity to weigh in on that narrative I 4 think it would be helpful as we can make sure to look 5 through the prism of those populations who are likely 6 to be able to access this based that this is the one 7 planchet besides the clad that's going to be 8 accessible -- more accessible to the public. 9 So in that respect I want to pay 10 attention to the designs that tell the story. 11 quite frankly, that is the design where it's a 12 combination of the Obverse 7 and the reverse -- 13 forgive me. 14 7 and Reverse 7. And I said about beauty in brevity -- Obverse 15 To me that -- when you have these two 16 designs they're telling a story one chapter into the 17 other. 18 be important to be able to tell the story has a 19 connection between them. 20 If you choose any other designs it's going to As much as I like portraits, I think 21 the telling of the story, especially if we're going to 22 have the portraits on the other planchet -- it's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 87 1 really important to tell the story because this is one 2 of those that may be accessible -- more accessible -- 3 certainly compared to the gold to the public. 4 them by the context. 5 MR. VASQUEZ: Most of Dr. Brown, there is a few 6 things I'd like to note since they got some attention 7 during the discussion. 8 DR. BROWN: 9 MR. VASQUEZ: Who is -This is Roger Vasquez. 10 Again I'd like to note that for any of these portraits 11 once recommended designs are identified by committees 12 there will be a meeting to improve upon the likenesses 13 of Tubman. So I heard some of those comments today. 14 The Mint will again work closely with 15 the designer of the coin, the chief engraver, and the 16 liaisons to refine the portraits in order to best 17 represent her. 18 particular to the Harriet Tubman Home. 19 It's very important of course for in Also I'd like to note that in Design 1 20 there's a small detail -- Reverse Design 1. The 21 satchel on the figure in the far right will be 22 removed. But the pole will remain over the shoulder. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 88 1 And finally there is a preference of 2 the Harriet Tubman Home for depictions of Tubman 3 without her head covered, which I think we'll likely 4 see more of that in later sections of this overall 5 portfolio. 6 However in Reverse 4 -- Silver Reverse 7 4 -- this depiction of her with the head covering is 8 acceptable on this design. 9 those things. 10 So I just wanted to note Also Reverse 7, which also got a lot of 11 attention -- the shoes on the figures in this design 12 will be edited to more appropriately fit the time 13 period. 14 on the central figure will be lengthened. 15 it. They look a little too modern. And the dress And that is Thank you. 16 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Are 17 there any other comments or motions from the members 18 at this time? 19 any comments or suggestions that you think the 20 committee should consider? Hearing none, Mike or Joe, do you have 21 MR. COSTELLO: 22 MR. MENNA: I do not. No, sir. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 89 1 2 DR. BROWN: comments or clarification by the -- 3 MS. WARREN: 4 DR. BROWN: 5 MS. WARREN: 6 Doctor -Oh --- Brown, Dennis Tucker has his hand up. 7 DR. BROWN: 8 MR. TUCKER: 9 Are there any additional Okay. Dennis? Thank you, Dr. Brown. I just wanted to recommend that instead of voting our 10 preferences for the silver dollar at this point we 11 wait until we've had discussion of the plan in full. 12 And because that -- those discussions might influence 13 our thoughts on the silver program. 14 15 DR. BROWN: Is there any concern among the committee members? 16 DR. FULLER: My only concern is we, you 17 know, this is fresh in our minds. 18 until we get to the third one we might -- it might get 19 lost. 20 least temporarily or something before we move on to -- 21 22 And if we wait So we need to find a way to record our votes at MR. TUCKER: I would recommend just notetaking, you know, careful notetaking by each www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 90 1 member. 2 Personally I know that my thoughts on 3 the clad half-dollar are somewhat dependent on what we 4 -- what ends up being decided for the silver dollar. 5 Anyway that's my two cents. 6 DR. BROWN: 7 clarification. 8 with Darla and Kellen. 9 voting. 10 Quick point of This is just for members to discuss We're now talking about This is actually a scoring mechanism that the committee uses. 11 And so I -- please, whatever you 12 believe works appropriately. But this is a tool the 13 committee uses to rate every design on a scale of 0 to 14 3. 15 where the committee is at any one moment. And then based on how that scores out we can see 16 It is not itself definitive towards how 17 we vote or what the committee's recommendation is. 18 With that -- 19 MR. WEINMAN: There's also, for the 20 information of the committee, there's an opportunity 21 for the committee to revisit each program once 22 we've -- you know, so I think with the notetaking that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 91 1 Dennis has suggested that we should be able to 2 accomplish the compromise of going forth with this one 3 and still be able to review it if we think that review 4 is warranted. Does that make sense? 5 DR. BROWN: John? 6 MR. SAUNDERS: John Saunders. One 7 thing that I think -- it might be more precise doing 8 what's fresh in our mind. 9 decide for the silver dollar to see which I pick for 10 I'd like to see what we the half-dollar. 11 I mean, there's something to be said 12 about making one decision followed by other decisions. 13 I think we have to rate everything at the same time 14 and pick the designs that are similar for the half- 15 dollar and dollar. 16 one or scoring this one -- not voting on it -- first 17 better. 18 So I kind of like voting on this Though I do take Dennis's point as 19 well, everything's connected to everything. 20 choices here are connected to your choices of the 21 half-dollar, which are connected to your choice of the 22 gold. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Your Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 92 1 2 3 DR. BROWN: we move the agenda. A few more comments before Dean? DR. KOTLOWSKI: This is Dean Kotlowski. 4 I agree with, you know, Harcourt and John. 5 this is a design portfolio that's particularly rich 6 and stimulating. 7 don't think your notetaking is going to do it for me. 8 9 I think And Dennis, with all due respect, I I think making the decision or making an initial decision -- doing not a vote but not a 10 score will give us a feel for where we are at this 11 particular moment. 12 as you said, we can always revisit it. 13 And Dr. Brown, and Mr. Chairman, DR. BROWN: Any other comments? 14 Hearing none, let me turn to the liaisons. 15 think this is really important now that you've heard 16 the discussion if you have any additional comments, 17 suggestions based on what you've heard. 18 MS. HILL: I do. Because I This is Karen Hill. 19 I just think that the committee has to keep in mind 20 that there were very -- there were virtually no images 21 of Tubman as a younger woman. 22 I was involved in the authentication of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 93 1 that one portrait that she sat for at Powelson's 2 Studio on Genesee Street in Auburn. 3 one and only actual portrait of Tubman. 4 And that was the And there was a reason for that. She 5 did not want anybody to know -- be able to recognize 6 her. 7 didn't know if she was a male or a female. 8 worked in her -- to her advantage. For a while in her years as a young woman they 9 And that So I think that you have sort of a dual 10 obligation of putting an image forth to reach, you 11 know, beyond traditional collectors, beyond young 12 people. But certainly young people are important. 13 But an image that will be a forever 14 image for them of Tubman. 15 responsibility. 16 So that's an awesome Because my goal is to make sure that 17 all three coins are widely known not just throughout 18 the United States but throughout the world. 19 hope to make a celebration to the rest of the world. 20 And I They have the day of the worker. I see 21 huge placards for Harriet Tubman. There is an 22 appreciation for her far beyond the United States. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 94 1 And so this first image of Tubman as a young woman is 2 really important. 3 And I was a chief proponent for her 4 hair being shown in its natural state. 5 have just taken enormous liberty with covering, with 6 the scarf, aging her inappropriately. 7 look at that as you, you know, make your decisions. 8 9 MR. KEOWN: The artists So really do This is Woody Keown. My perspective, there were three things I wanted to 10 comment on, number one in terms of the concept of her 11 reflecting her stubbornness, a dynamic leader, and 12 showing action. 13 The Underground Railroad network was an 14 action-oriented, unified, diverse, multicultural, and 15 multiethnic network that really did phenomenal things. 16 It broke the law. 17 It took a lot of courageous people to 18 really make it work the way it worked to get people to 19 freedom. 20 I think all about that is very good. 21 22 So I think that the action-oriented piece -- I think the other part for me is there was a comment -- comments about the hand. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And as I Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 95 1 understood Ms. Tubman and from what I've read and 2 learned and so forth is that she's always reaching out 3 trying to help somebody. 4 So that is really kind of servant 5 leadership. 6 So it's always just throughout her life was reaching 7 out, helping somebody through all bases of life and so 8 forth. 9 You speak about leadership and so forth. So, you know, that gesture or hand 10 gesture that as I saw it and interpreted it and so 11 forth -- and it needs to be shared. 12 this in the documentation is basically always reaching 13 out and helping someone. 14 finished with her. 15 And we covered And that job was never The other point was around the -- we 16 were trying to make something out of -- struggling 17 with how do you -- we struggle today with trying to -- 18 how do you connect the past with the present. 19 Well, we find there's so many people 20 who don't understand the past yet well enough. 21 some of the more contemporary-looking designs and so 22 forth -- the one that had free -- I didn't www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And so Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 96 1 particularly like that one. 2 things -- I liked the contemporary nature of it. 3 There were a lot of But that concept of being free centered 4 on the top and having her isolated didn't really work 5 for me from what I know in terms of how the 6 underground network -- Underground Railroad worked. 7 And also the concept of free -- it that 8 tone and sense of finality. I don't think that she 9 would see that she was free until all were free. So 10 those are just some comments I wanted to share with 11 you. 12 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. We 13 really appreciate it. Are there any further 14 discussion? 15 score the obverse and reverse at this time of the 16 silver. Hearing none, the committee will now 17 Each of you should have at your seat 18 either a scoresheet, a hard copy, or those that are 19 participating virtually received that electronically. 20 When you are done, please email them -- 21 those of you with electronics. And those of us here 22 will hand our scoresheets directly to Greg Weinman, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 97 1 who will then score the result and present the 2 results. 3 and tally. We will take a ten-minute break for scoring 4 (Off the record.) 5 MS. WARREN: 6 coming back on. 7 Okay. It's 10:01. We're Dr. Brown? DR. BROWN: We are back. I recognize 8 Greg Weinman, counsel to the CCAC, to present the 9 results from the scoring sheets. 10 MR. WEINMAN: This is a score out of 11 30. Although there are 11 members who began the 12 meeting, one has temporarily departed the meeting. 13 ten scored, which means the top -- this is a score out 14 of 30. 15 For the silver obverse, 1 received 21 16 points. Which is actually the high score but 17 barely -- Obverse 2 received 7 points. 18 received 13 points. 19 Obverse 4 Obverse 5 received 8. Obverse 7 received, you know, 20 20 points. So just one point less. And Obverse 8 21 received 13. 22 with 21, followed very closely by Obverse 7 with 20. So once again the high was Obverse 1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 98 1 For the reverses, Reverse 1 is the high 2 vote -- high scorer with 25 points out of this 3 possible 30. 4 received 7. 5 received 11. 6 Mr. Scarinci has come back. 7 8 Reverse 3 Reverse 4 received 11. Reverse 7 And Reverse 8 received 4. MR. SCARINCI: With that, And I would add my support to the two selected ones. 9 MR. WEINMAN: 10 11 Reverse 2 received 3. Excellent. MR. SCARINCI: voted. That's what I would have I apologize for taking a call. 12 MR. WEINMAN: 13 MS. WARREN: 14 raised with Dennis Tucker. 15 DR. BROWN: 16 MR. TUCKER: All good. Dr. Brown, we have a hand Dennis? Thank you, Dr. Brown. I 17 would like to recommend that it would be premature to 18 make a formal recommendation at this point so we just 19 use the scoring as an information point of data and 20 continue on with the clad half-dollar. 21 22 DR. BROWN: Any objection to that direction? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 99 1 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 1: 2 DR. BROWN: 3 DR. FULLER: None. Any other questions? Just a quick -- can we 4 just see the sides that have been -- that have 5 received the most -- 6 DR. BROWN: 7 DR. FULLER: 8 on the screen, please? 9 Obverse 1 and Obverse 7? Yes. Can we just see it Thank you. MS. WARREN: Pam -- okay. 11 DR. FULLER: Thank you. 12 DR. BROWN: 10 13 You heard. Can we do that for the reverse as well? 14 15 Good. DR. FULLER: Reverse. For the benefit of the liaisons mainly. 16 DR. BROWN: Reverse 1. Thank 17 you. 18 discussion on this will be temporarily concluded until 19 we review the others. 20 Are there any motions? Okay. Hearing none, the Then I would like to then suggest that 21 we take -- now go to the discussion of the clad 22 obverse and reverse. And let us begin this time with www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 100 1 Dean. 2 DR. KOTLOWSKI: Thank you, Mr. 3 Chairman. 4 designs here that are excellent. 5 aligned with the liaisons on what they are -- what 6 they have identified. 7 portraits here in 1 and 2. 8 9 This is Dean Kotlowski. And I see a lot of I'm very much I think we have some very good I believe that if we do ultimately go with the silver -- the top vote-getter for the silver 10 dollar -- it's a little bit more of a full-length 11 image with the hand extended -- I'd become persuaded 12 that that's a good image, something that would maybe 13 zero in a little bit more on Harriet Tubman. 14 2 would be fine. 15 So 1 and But probably my favorite design is 4. 16 And this is a preference -- correct me if I'm wrong -- 17 of both liaisons. 18 a portrait of Harriet Tubman. 19 And what I liked here is you do get And you know, the military significance 20 of her work in the Civil War is highlighted in a way 21 that I think is thoroughly appropriate. 22 And it has good balance. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It's still a Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 101 1 sizeable coin as a half-dollar. 2 detail would work. 3 other members of the committee feel that way. 4 And I think the I would be interested to know if And if we move on to the reverse 5 I've -- I kind of struggled with this. 6 think that I'm going to veer toward No. 8. 7 You might And I still think, you know, there's so 8 much being represented here -- the representing of an 9 individual act of courage is not a bad thing at all 10 because we'll have so many different varieties. 11 And you know, I should let this go a 12 little bit. But when she's looking out it's like 13 she's looking out the next mountaintop. 14 ever finished here. So nothing is 15 But I'm not really pushing that because 16 I think Civil War, nurse, scout spy -- it doesn't have 17 the same resonance in this context as Moses of her 18 people. 19 I noticed that the Harriet Tubman Home 20 liked No. 3. And I do kind of like some of the 21 contemporary designs. 22 variety here. I think that we can have a It's one of the advantages of this www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 102 1 portfolio and this program in this set of three coins. 2 And I think this is again another 3 strong image. 4 That can be breaking the chains through the 5 Underground Railroad or of course emancipation in the 6 Civil War. 7 You see the chains, you know, broken. You know, now that I look at it it 8 reminds me of the stamp of the Emancipation 9 Proclamation that was issued in 1963, which had chains 10 on it like that. 11 So I like that. I think, you know, 7 is also very 12 attractive. 13 and too geographical in terms of the military. 14 And I think No. 1 is maybe too technical But there are a number of, again, 15 excellent designs here. 16 colleagues say in making a decision. 17 much. 18 DR. BROWN: I'll be listening to what my Thank you very Thank you so much. 19 Colleagues, if we can limit our comments to three 20 minutes or less if possible. 21 But if we can that would be great. 22 Donald. There can be exceptions. Let's turn now to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 103 1 MR. SCARINCI: Thank you. Dean, you 2 know, you gave it -- as you pointed this out, I mean, 3 I have a -- I think you came up with a brilliant idea. 4 If we're going to go with 1, right -- because we have 5 to try to look at this as a whole series. 6 If we got to go with the 1, what if we 7 went with 4, Obverse 4, of the clad except let's get 8 rid of the stuff -- let's get rid of all the other 9 stuff and make it -- let's get rid of all the stuff to 10 the left and make it a clean, you know, a clean 11 surface, clean fields with that so it looks like it 12 goes with 1. 13 And you know, I'm kind of liking that. 14 And then we can use the full head-on portrait for the 15 small gold one. 16 our, you know, we use the small portrait for the full 17 head-on portrait. 18 And so we get our small -- we get And for the reverse -- because I'm 19 keeping to my three minutes -- it's hard for me to do. 20 And for the reverse, I mean, I just love Reverse 3. 21 And fortunately that's one of the preferences. 22 So but I think Reverse 3 is a no- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 104 1 brainer in the piece. 2 about that one. 3 that. So I would be very passionate As a coin I think we've not done I don't recall ever doing something like that. 4 And I just think that's a really 5 impactful design, especially for the clad. 6 everything you need it to do. 7 reverse. 8 9 It does So I like 3 as the And we could make a motion. If people like the concept of using 4 we can follow it up with a 10 motion to get rid of all the other stuff so that we 11 have clean fields. 12 13 14 DR. BROWN: appreciate that. Thank you so much. Really Now let's turn to Art. MR. BERNSTEIN: This is Art Bernstein. 15 Reminder that this coin is meant to celebrate Harriet 16 Tubman's role in the Civil War. 17 gravitated towards Obverse 4. 18 And for that reason I And with all due respect to Donald, all 19 that other stuff I think is important because I think 20 it demonstrates -- it speaks Civil War. 21 warship to me says Civil War. 22 favor of Obverse 4. That ironclad So I would -- I'd be in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 105 1 For the reverses I liked Reverse 5 for 2 the same reasons I liked the Moses design on the 3 silver dollar. 4 And sorry. 5 wrong number. 6 It was, oh, Reverse 3. 7 3, which had -- 8 9 no. 3. The reverse that had the peak. Sorry. I misspoke. Okay. Reverse DR. KOTLOWSKI: Isn't that 8? Oh, no, MR. BERNSTEIN: I'm up here at Reverse Sorry. 10 11 I think I might have the And I also like Reverse 8. 12 DR. BROWN: 13 now turn to Mike Moran. 14 breakfast by now. 15 Thank you so much. Let's I'm sure you've finished MR. MORAN: Yes; I finished breakfast a 17 DR. BROWN: Okay. 18 MR. MORAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 16 long time ago. 19 make it quick. 20 obverse -- let me get my notes up here -- that I 21 really like on the clad. 22 I'll People haven't talked about the one And that is No. 5. It tells a truly -- story of nursing www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 106 1 using the medicinal qualities of plants. 2 a good image of her. 3 No. 7 on the reverse you get the full story of what 4 she did during the Civil War. 5 I think it's I think when you pair it with And to me you get the military aspect 6 as well as being the scout and the spy. 7 nursing function is the one that I really place some 8 value on. 9 the two I'm going to vote for -- 5 and 7. And that comes through on No. 5. 10 11 12 But the DR. BROWN: Those are Thank you. Thank you so much. Let's turn to Peter. DR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 13 I have to say this section of the portfolio was a 14 little difficult for me because I do find there to be 15 a number of compelling designs within this section. 16 The problem that I'm having is that 17 with the narrative arc that we're working with through 18 the Civil War period with the clad particularly is 19 trying to find the designs that are both really 20 attractive and appealing but at the same time engage 21 with that narrative arc. 22 I have to agree with Mike that 5 and 7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 107 1 as designs for the obverse and reverse really are 2 quite attractive and do -- I think say a lot about 3 that arc. 4 But the liaisons' preferences of 5 Obverse 4 and -- I think it's, if I remember right, 5 6 as a reverse -- I think make that Civil War component 7 a little bit more obvious than, say, 5 and 7 would. 8 9 10 The one concern that I have about Obverse 4 -- I was doing a little bit of research on the Combahee River raids. 11 And my understanding, at least the 12 contemporary illustrations that I've found, the 13 gunboats used were probably little sidewheel steamers. 14 I'm not sure what vessel is depicted. 15 The ironclad vessel in the background there, which is 16 one of the three vessels involved -- I don't know if 17 that's been -- I'm sorry? 18 19 MR. SAUNDERS: I think it's the Monitor. 20 DR. VAN ALFEN: Right. But that would 21 not be -- in fact that's not a Monitor-type vessel 22 anyway. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 108 1 But my only concern would be just -- 2 you know, I'm sure the Office of Design Management 3 always, you know, does do their homework. 4 would want more clarification on which vessel that's 5 supposed to represent in that case. 6 I just But overall I'm happy to support 5 or 4 7 Obverse and 5 Reverse for this. 8 be giving points to 5 Obverse and I think it's 7 9 Reverse as well. 10 11 12 Although again I will So thank you. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Let's turn now to Harcourt. DR. FULLER: Thank you, Dr. Chairman. 13 I'll be giving points to Obverses 4 and 5. 14 like 4 because I think that it -- you know, I think 15 there's a level of -- she's saying, you know, "I made 16 a contribution" you know, with the folded hands. 17 know, "I did that." 18 It's very bold. I like 5. I really You It's very brave. I do have a little bit of a 19 concern about whether or not those leaves look like a 20 headdress -- a Native American headdress. 21 22 But I think it is significant that it's showing traditional medicine. And that kind of ties www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 109 1 her in with another woman that I mentioned who was on 2 a currency. 3 Jamaica, who also used traditional medicine. And that's Nanny of the Maroons in 4 On the reverse I actually like 1. 5 There's something about that map. 6 is always great. 7 any of these -- the three, you know, files here. 8 I also like 5 as well because it does show the tents 9 used in the Civil War. 10 11 You know, geography And I do not think we have a map in But Thank you. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Let's turn now to Kellen. 12 MR. HOARD: Yeah. I had the same kind 13 of ideas in mind as previously in terms of, again, her 14 continuing work through that life in an action- 15 oriented way. 16 I was drawn to Obverse 4. And then of 17 course checking in with whether in fact that boat is 18 accurate. 19 But in general I like 4. Again with all due respect to Donald, I 20 would actually keep the background because I think 21 that really drives home exactly what it was. 22 Also I'll say as a student with, like, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 110 1 a limited budget -- it's coins like these that I would 2 be purchasing more than anything else. 3 And I would -- I'm glad in some ways 4 that we're covering her Civil War work on these pieces 5 because I was taught a lot about Underground Railroad, 6 not so much about her work afterwards. 7 So I think that's going to be 8 accessible. 9 is the Civil War oriented one so there are those 10 And it's important that we emphasize this lessons there. 11 For the reverse I like 5, which I know 12 has been brought up before. 13 though, which is I would actually remove the words 14 "Civil War" at the top and just have "Nurse", "Scout", 15 "Spy". 16 I would change one thing The reason being that "Nurse", "Scout", 17 "Spy" is what she did. She did not do Civil War. 18 That was not her job. 19 context in general we know she probably wasn't in the 20 Vietnam War or World War II. And I think from a lot of other 21 And actually that ends up just kind of 22 filling more words that are -- that don't fit in with www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 111 1 the rest, that is kind of like a bookend on one end. 2 It doesn't make sense to me. 3 I'd prefer it -- I think it'd be 4 clearer just to say, "Nurse", "Scout", "Spy" and then 5 along the bottom that she was the raid leader as well. 6 The Civil War I don't think is necessary there. 7 And her work continues to this day. 8 Her work as a nurse, as a scout, as a spy has had 9 consequences -- positive consequences -- through this 10 day. 11 And so I don't think we need to specify 12 that it would necessarily limit it just to here's her 13 work specifically from the Civil War. 14 reverse. 15 So I like that And I would keep that one there. The one I didn't like, which I marked 16 down I guess -- I just said 3. 17 the obverse or reverse. 18 reverse I think. 19 I don't know if it's Let me see here. Sorry, the obverse. It is the Obverse 3. I just wasn't a huge fan of that one. 20 And I just wanted to avoid that if we could. 21 And also Reverse 3 as well. 22 the 3s. Yeah. I didn't like either of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 112 1 Reverse 3 I thought didn't tie as well 2 as it could into the Civil War aspect. 3 necessarily as compelling of a design. 4 It just wasn't So I would probably not give that one 5 points to the same extent as I would, again, Obverse 4 6 and Reverse 5 minus the Civil War. 7 8 DR. BROWN: Thank you very much. Let's turn to Dennis. 9 MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Our 10 liaisons' preferences or -- and favored designs were 11 for the obverse 1, 2, 4, and 7. 12 four, 4 and 7 are the most descriptive in their visual 13 detail. 14 I think of those They tell us more about the Civil War, 15 which is the theme of this particular coin, and her 16 involvement in the Civil War what with the flag and 17 the aspects of the uniform, the ships, and such. 18 Of the two Obverse 7 is actually very 19 similar in basic design to the obverse that I 20 preferred for the silver dollar. 21 strong portrait. 22 with the outstretched hand. So I think that's a It's descriptive. It's more active www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 113 1 However I think that Obverse 4 also has 2 its strengths. 3 candidates for me. 4 So 4 or 7 -- those are both good For the reverse the favored and 5 preferred designs were 3 and 5. 6 It's innovative in its use of symbolism and the format 7 that the design will take on the surface of the coin. 8 9 I like Reverse 3. I remember Mr. Keown's remarks about Harriet Tubman not considering herself free unless all 10 were free. I did keep that in mind as I reconsidered 11 these designs. 12 But I think on that aspect of this 13 design is -- I think that's fine with this design 14 because we can be talking about the Emancipation 15 Proclamation, which of course freed the slaves during 16 the war. 17 And in her -- on the silver dollar 18 we're talking about Underground Railroad, a period 19 where not everybody was freed so -- but I think that 20 that's reconciled with Design Reverse 3. 21 22 Reverse 5 is, you know, it uses narrative text to tell the story. And often that's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 114 1 helpful for viewers. 2 be fine. 3 So I think either 3 or 5 would Five spells it out quite literally. 4 that might be a preference. 5 those are my thoughts. 6 7 So Thank you, Dr. Brown. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Let's turn to Darla. 8 9 But 3 is innovative. So MS. JACKSON: Jackson. Hello; this is Darla So for the obverse I was looking first at 10 No. 4. 11 tell that story that we're looking to tell. 12 I think that this is something that does help There were things about it. 13 like her expression is a little odd. 14 something that could get resolved. I feel But maybe that's 15 I want to pay attention to also Obverse 16 5 because I did think that this was a really beautiful 17 piece. 18 bit differently -- taking, you know, native plants and 19 turning them into something that's really helpful. 20 I think it speaks to what she's done a little I also think that that speaks to her 21 ability to do so much with so little. 22 want to pay specific attention to that one. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And so I did Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 115 1 Obverse 7 I thought was really 2 beautiful as well. 3 for the first coin I am not thinking about this one as 4 heavily. 5 But because we chose it for now And I also did want to note with this 6 one how her name is bisected by the flag feels very 7 odd to me. 8 case anybody's leaning in that direction. So I did just want to point that out in 9 For the reverse, No. 1 I thought was a 10 really potentially nice idea. 11 hand feels unremarkable in comparison the drawing of 12 the map, which I do find quite interesting. 13 I like it, I think the hand could be more interesting. 14 But unfortunately the So while And I do also really enjoy No. 3. 15 However I worry about the pairing with the obverse. 16 So that would be my only concern there. 17 design. 18 it pair? I think it's very strong. 21 22 However how does And that is it for me. 19 20 I love this DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Turn to John Saunders. MR. SAUNDERS: Hi. John Saunders here. First off, Darla was mentioning carrying something www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 116 1 from 1, which was the silver dollar, over to the half- 2 dollar. 3 I haven't given up on Design 07 for the 4 obverse. It was one point behind. 5 given up on it. 6 pairing that silver dollar with the 07 half-dollar 7 might be a good combination or a good compromise. 8 9 10 But I haven't I think if we're talking pairing, In terms of the obverse designs though I like 4 and I like 7. better. I think I like 7 a little bit But I like them both. 11 I do think if we go with 4 -- I like 12 having an ironclad in there because it -- the ironclad 13 kind of says Civil War to me even if it wasn't used in 14 this particular raid or this event. 15 The other boat could be from any war 16 any time. But an ironclad says Civil War to me so I 17 like that aspect of the design. 18 In terms of the reverse I'm kind of 19 with everybody else. I like 03 a lot. 20 second choice would be 07. 21 design there. 22 07. And I guess my And I like the negative I just like the -- I like the design of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 117 1 On 03 I'm not sure I'd like this better 2 but I just had to think about maybe we need a little 3 bit of light between the one side of free and the 4 black background. 5 Kind of like we have some white on the 6 chain there. 7 So just something to think about. 8 9 It would be a lot more readable quickly. DR. BROWN: But I do like 03. Thank you so much. And for the public -- and the committee members already know 10 -- part of my prism is that of a veteran, this time 11 the Army. 12 So to me anything that continues to 13 tell the military story is important. 14 recommend that we don't leave it to symbolism but that 15 we leave it to actually -- what actually it states. 16 And I really So with all due respect, Kellen, I 17 appreciate the point you raised about Civil War. 18 would suggest we keep it in because that war was 19 particularly powerful on this nation's history. 20 I This design of the reverse -- it had to 21 do with traditional medicine, again one of my biases. 22 I'm a physician. So as a physician, as much as I did www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 118 1 not typically embrace traditional medicine I do 2 understand now that -- how important it is. 3 And telling that -- about that portion 4 of our history -- that's where that began -- is really 5 so important. 6 Reverse 5 are the ones that I would probably lean 7 towards. 8 9 10 So to me Obverse 4 and 5 as well as Now our liaisons, having heard the conversation of our colleagues, do you have any additional comments? 11 I'm sorry. DR. KOTLOWSKI: Please. Mr. Chairman, this is 12 Dean Kotlowski. I took a lot of time in discussing. 13 I just want to share something I mentioned. 14 holding up, for the record, this is the 1963 15 centennial stamp for the Emancipation Proclamation 16 issued by the US Postal Service. What I am 17 DR. BROWN: Okay. 18 MR. HOARD: I had a question for the 19 liaisons if I could? 20 DR. BROWN: Please do. 21 MR. HOARD: Which was around Obverse 7, 22 which was not one of my favorite designs. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 But I had a Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 119 1 question about it, which is given that she fought for 2 the Union, she fought for freedom, at the same time 3 the United States is the country that put her in 4 chains in the first place. 5 Was she a flag waving kind of person, a 6 person who would hoist a flag over her shoulder as a 7 proud carrier of that? 8 9 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 2: That's a good question. 10 MR. KEOWN: I don't know that you would 11 characterize her as a flag-waving person in the 12 concept we would talk about it today. 13 But I think she was all about country. 14 She was all about freedom and living up to the ideals 15 that were laid out in the Constitution and so forth. 16 So in that sense in terms of being a -- 17 in terms of being someone who's loyal to the country, 18 to the Constitution, and so on and so forth, I think 19 that she was very much in that mode. 20 MS. HILL: Well, she was very much a 21 patriot. That was high up on her list of -- she felt 22 as a free American that became available to her. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 120 1 That's why she joined the women's 2 suffrage movement ten years after it began and became 3 a leader for women's suffrage even though she knew it 4 would not include her and women like her when women 5 got the right to vote. 6 And she married a fellow patriot, 7 Nelson Davis, who came home sickly from the Civil War. 8 And she cared for Union soldiers when they came home. 9 So her patriotism -- and she was a bit of flag waver 10 but not satisfied with what that flag represented; 11 okay? 12 Yes; she waved the flag -- proud to 13 have served. But she knew that America was better 14 than what she had experienced. 15 the promise of America. And she believed in So in that respect -- 16 DR. BROWN: All right. Thank you. 17 MR. MENNA: Dr. Brown, can I -- 18 DR. BROWN: Please. 19 MR. MENNA: This is Joe Menna. Joe? Just as 20 a -- not to sound pedantic or sound like I'm trying to 21 educate you, but images can be realistic and 22 allegorical at the same time metaphorical. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 121 1 DR. BROWN: Sure. 2 MR. MENNA: It doesn't mean that she 3 was necessarily literally holding a flag but 4 symbolically representing what the stakeholders just 5 said. 6 DR. BROWN: Sure. 7 MR. MENNA: Artistically speaking only. 8 I'm not trying to sway your vote or score. 9 MR. VASQUEZ: 10 DR. BROWN: 11 MR. VASQUEZ: Dr. Brown? Go ahead, please. I have something to note. 12 In Design 7 if this is to be recommended the face and 13 hair in this portrait would be made more like Silver 14 Obverse 1. 15 less desirable. 16 Obverse 1. 17 Same artist. This depiction of her was But Pam, if you could show Silver We would show this likeness and of 18 course with the improvements that we would get from 19 working with the designer, the chief engraver, and the 20 liaisons. 21 22 But I just wanted to highlight that this would be the face. Everything from the neck up www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 122 1 would be what we would use on Clad Obverse 7. 2 DR. BROWN: Important. 3 DR. FULLER: Yes. This is Harcourt Fuller. Thank you, Dr. 4 Brown. 5 with you, Dr. Brown, in response to Kellen's comments 6 as well. 7 I do want to agree I do think sometimes there are times 8 when you don't want to be literal and there are times 9 when you want to be literal. I'm in favor of keeping 10 the word "Civil War" because in that sense it's 11 basically saying she was a Civil War nurse, a Civil 12 War spy. 13 And I think sometimes the things that 14 we think people should know -- that obviously it's not 15 the first or second World War -- I do not take that 16 for granted, you know, quite frankly. 17 have to say what it is. 18 artistically. 19 And I think you Of course if it works Final point I'd like to make in 20 response to John's comments is maybe it's the 21 historian in me. 22 for historical accuracy in most cases. I do believe that we should strive www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 123 1 And so the ironclad -- if that was not 2 the boat or, you know, used I would be in favor of 3 using -- depicting the one that was actually used 4 because these are in essence snapshots in time. 5 And for students of history, 6 scholars -- if we're going to look at these coins and 7 reference them they need to be historically accurate 8 in terms of the clothing and everything else. 9 you. 10 DR. BROWN: Thank you. 11 MR. SCARINCI: Thank Donald? Harcourt, if you don't 12 mind, and Dean, if you don't mind, I'd like to put you 13 both on the spot. 14 in Harriet Tubman's hands. 15 I'm not comfortable putting a flag And how do you feel -- how did the two 16 of you feel about that? 17 uncomfortable as I am with that. 18 19 I'm curious if you feel as DR. KOTLOWSKI: This is Dean Kotlowski. Do you want to go first, Harcourt? 20 DR. FULLER: 21 about it. 22 Tubman is a symbol; okay? I will make a comment But I would defer to the liaisons. Harriet Of course she's a real www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 124 1 person. But she's a symbol. 2 So I think we're trying to do two 3 things. We are trying to represent and to depict her 4 in terms of the history that she made. 5 But at the same time it's aspirational 6 where we're trying to basically say this -- she was a 7 model citizen. 8 9 This is what we should strive for. And I think that if, you know, if the flag represents that -- because she was a patriot. So 10 whether or not she was -- she actually had a flag, you 11 know, in her hand -- she was a patriot that 12 contributed to saving this nation from a civil war 13 that -- you know, so I'm fine with the flag. 14 But at the same time I don't think she 15 necessarily needs to have it to prove that she's a 16 patriot. 17 story. She's a patriot, period, point blank, end of 18 DR. BROWN: Dean? 19 DR. KOTLOWSKI: And this is Dean 20 Kotlowski. And you know, when I voice my perspectives 21 on these coins they are my perspectives. 22 of what we do. This is kind It's part of a conversation. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It is in Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 125 1 no way to be, you know, disrespectful to the liaisons 2 or anyone here. 3 And you know, Donald, you're going to 4 love this. And Harcourt, you're going to love this. 5 I'm uncomfortable with the flag there. 6 it's an add-on that is -- it just throws the coin off 7 artistically. 8 9 I just think I think it throws the messaging off. I'm going to stick with what I said -- that I like No. 4 better. But I've become persuaded 10 to No. 1 for the obverse for the silver, which is very 11 similar in terms of the design with the hand 12 outstretched. So that's where I would come down. 13 DR. BROWN: Thank you. Kellen? 14 MR. HOARD: Just my final note on that. 15 Even for Obverse 7 I think since we already liked 16 Obverse 1 even beyond the flag that they're just kind 17 of similar. 18 about the Civil War but it's not worth pushing the 19 point so -- 20 And I know people prefer 1. DR. BROWN: I disagree Well, we can look forward 21 for other more collaborative conversations in the 22 future. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 126 1 So let me just say that, well, from my 2 view as someone who's served in the military. 3 served in a war that was unpopular. 4 was not my choice -- I was drafted -- I still have to 5 say that I would defend this country. 6 And I Even though that And one thing about Harriet Tubman 7 that's also to me really pivotal here -- not only does 8 she free the slaves, from my understanding she helped 9 to recruit some of them to fight for the Union. 10 So if you really were against this 11 country you would just free the slaves and you 12 wouldn't tell them to sacrifice themselves for a 13 country that you had no faith in. 14 With respect to the flag, that's -- I'm 15 not saying that I favor the design with the flag 16 because I agree with Darla -- that separation of 17 Harriet Tubman really is disturbing. 18 think the flag is that critical for this design. 19 But I don't But I would certainly debate anyone who 20 said that she was not a patriot. I think that for 21 what she did in her life -- things beyond what she 22 needed to do to in fact move people from slavery -- I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 127 1 think it clearly underscores that -- her support for 2 this country. 3 role as chair. Please forgive me. 4 MS. HILL: 5 DR. BROWN: 6 MS. HILL: I stepped out of my If I may -Please. You have to put the flag 7 into context. Remember, when she became a nurse, spy 8 and scout she had purchased property, was living in 9 Auburn. And she said, "I have to go fight. The 10 freedom that is so important to me is so important to 11 this country and so important to others." 12 So she viewed -- her patriotism was 13 wrapped up in freedom -- the freedom quest. 14 eight soldiers being able to free 750 other people in 15 South Carolina was no small feat. 16 She was a flag-waving patriot if you 17 know her story. 18 not literally. 19 And with And you know, metaphorically, maybe But how do you think she became a spy? 20 Pretending to be really dumb, deaf, inarticulate. 21 They thought no one -- they would talk freely around 22 her because they thought she was a nobody, a nothing. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 128 1 Becoming a nurse. She paid attention 2 to what she witnessed in Auburn and how to treat those 3 who were wounded. 4 I mean, these are things she didn't 5 have to do. 6 drafted; okay? 7 called up herself to expand the franchise of freedom. 8 And I just think we have to be mindful 9 She was not like Dr. Brown. She was not She called up herself; okay? She of that -- of the context -- because I know -- to be 10 very honest I know a lot of the people in my circle 11 would have a problem with the flag. 12 awesome responsibility to represent the fullness of 13 Harriet Tubman at every opportunity. But I have an 14 MR. MENNA: Dr. Brown, could -- 15 DR. BROWN: Please. 16 MR. MENNA: -- I add just some 17 composition? 18 why taking the flag out of this particular design -- 19 not editorializing on the content but structurally why 20 it's essential to this design. 21 22 Just from a purely compositional sense The design falls apart clearly without it. You see the diagonal of the flag pole. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 You see Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 129 1 the diagonal of her outstretched arm. 2 parallel. 3 arms -- upper arm. 4 holding the flag. They're You see the diagonal of her outstretched 5 You see the diagonal of the hand They're parallel. That forms a square, 6 the apex of which -- a square on an angle, the apex of 7 which everything leads to her portrait. 8 9 So the entire story of this coin visually is told by the structure of the coin. And 10 all roads lead to Harriet Tubman via the architectural 11 structure of the coin visually. 12 visual sense. 13 14 MS. WARREN: Just talking from a Dr. Brown, Dennis Tucker has his hand up. 15 DR. BROWN: 16 MR. TUCKER: Dennis? Thank you, Dr. Brown. 17 thank you, Joe. 18 just repeat what I said earlier -- that most Americans 19 when it comes to Harriet Tubman's life are students. 20 And thanks to our liaisons. And I would Our liaisons are teachers of her life. 21 And they think about her all the time. 22 about how to teach and communicate her story. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 They think Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 130 1 And the fact that Obverse 7 was one of 2 their preferred designs -- flag and all -- I think 3 tells us all we need to know. 4 comfortable with that. 5 And we can be Joe, you spoke of the design strength, 6 the symbolic strength of the flag. 7 is a fine design. 8 that point anymore. 9 I don't think we need to belabor Thank you, Mr. Chair. DR. BROWN: Thank you. 10 from committee members. 11 folks. 12 now we are prepared to vote. 13 I think that this We've heard We've heard from our design And we've heard from the liaisons. I think Ladies and gentlemen, I suggest that we 14 in fact, since we had such a full conversation, that 15 we try to do this in five minutes. 16 minutes. 17 18 MS. WARREN: It's 10:40. (Off the record.) 20 MS. WARREN: 22 I'm going to stop the recording and put us on mute. 19 21 So recess for five Okay, sir. Court reporter, are you ready? THE REPORTER: Yes. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It's 10:46. Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 131 1 MS. WARREN: 2 DR. BROWN: Okay. There you go, sir. We are back. I recognize 3 again Greg Weinman, counsel to the CCAC, to present 4 the results from the scoring sheets. 5 MR. WEINMAN: I will tell you upfront 6 the obverse is a little bit more definitive than the 7 reverse. 8 received 4 points. 9 Obverse 3 received 1 point. The scoring for the obverse is Obverse 1 10 Obverse 2 received 4 points. Obverse 4 received 28 out of a possible 11 33 points. 12 getter, followed by Obverse 5 receiving 17 points. 13 Obverse 6 received 4 points. 14 16 points. 15 So once again that is the high vote- And Obverse 7 received So once again, Obverse No. 4 with 28. Moving to the reverse, which is a 16 little more ambivalent. Reverse 1 received 8 points. 17 Reverse 2 received 2 points. 18 points. 19 received 16 points, followed by Reverse 8 with 6. Reverse 3 received 18 Reverse 5 received 20 points. Reverse 7 20 So Reverse 5 is the high vote-getter 21 but only by 2 points -- 20 versus 18 for Reverse 3. 22 And 16 for Reverse 7. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 132 1 2 DR. BROWN: Hearing none -- 3 4 Are there any motions? MR. SCARINCI: Motion to -- no; I'll retract that motion. 5 DR. BROWN: You want to wait? 6 MR. SCARINCI: I was going to make a 7 motion to remove the stuff. 8 selection of the reverse we'll keep the stuff in it. 9 DR. BROWN: 10 But in light of the Okay. MR. SCARINCI: Very good. I think -- oh, I'm so 11 sorry. Is it -- Kellen's name. 12 good point, you know, to keep the Civil War stuff in 13 there. 14 DR. BROWN: I think Kellen made a So we're going to -- just 15 for information -- or the committee and the public -- 16 that we're going to wait until we finish the gold 17 before we make final recommendations of any other -- 18 or so committee feels to do so. 19 let us now turn to the gold. That being the case, Back to you, Roger. 20 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 3: 21 MR. VASQUEZ: 22 distracted. I'm sorry. What was the -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 That's you. I was Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 133 1 2 MS. WARREN: Gold. through the -- 3 MR. VASQUEZ: 4 MS. WARREN: Right. Sorry. 5 You already did the descriptions. 6 for your -- 7 DR. BROWN: 8 MS. WARREN: 9 This is Jennifer. So it's your time We can discuss; okay. Right? Didn't you go through the descriptions? 10 11 We already went MR. VASQUEZ: I did read them. would be happy to read them again if you wish. 12 DR. BROWN: Committee members, you are 13 prepared to continue your conversation? 14 the case, we will then proceed. 15 time with Dean. 16 DR. KOTLOWSKI: So if it's And let's start this All right. 17 very much, Mr. Chair. 18 Wonderful designs here. 19 try to keep this very brief here. 20 But I Thank you This is Dean Kotlowski again. Mr. Chairman, I'm going to I like No. 4 for the obverse. I think 21 that this is the largest portrait that we have in this 22 set of Harriet Tubman in terms of just her face. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 134 1 shows her in her latter years -- appropriate for the 2 coin. 3 But I think the size I think works best 4 for a very small coin with the five dollar gold piece. 5 So that is -- excuse me. 6 Not 5. It's Obverse 4. And Obverse 4 is the preference of one 7 of the liaisons. 8 liaisons have to say about the other designs and my 9 colleagues. 10 I will of course listen to what the And then with the reverse, you know, I 11 can almost go for any of these designs except for 2 12 and 3. 13 simple and clear. 14 if we had any preferences attached to it. 15 I thought 3 was just, you know, a little And I don't think -- I'm not sure Two is going to be really, really 16 small. 17 1A was a preference and so were 5 and 5A. 18 The outstretched hands work for me. 5A has a lot of text with it. I think I 19 understand the importance of putting all of Harriet 20 Tubman's -- these important values. 21 22 The only thing I'm going to say just again with my tradition today of independent thinking www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 135 1 I also like No. 1. 2 simple message of I go to prepare a place for you. 3 there is the individual. 4 and the connectivity. 5 And I like No. 1 and this very There is the collectivity And also there is something without me 6 explaining it that has an end of life feel to that 7 quotation of going somewhere beyond. 8 9 10 So And again I felt very moved by that so I'm going to give that some consideration and some points. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. 11 DR. BROWN: Thank you. Committee 12 members, just as a reminder, we're going for three 13 minutes. 14 John? MR. SAUNDERS: Well, this is kind of 15 dangerous here because I'm going to agree with Dean a 16 lot. Not completely but pretty much. 17 I like Obverse 4. 18 the strongest of the six choices. 19 reverse design I like 5 best. 20 One is okay. I think it's by far And in terms of the I'm not quite sure what 21 two hands -- you know, I guess one of them is shaking 22 your hand. The other one is clasping to show things. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 136 1 But I'm a little confused with that design. 2 I think 3 was a little bit more into -- 3 it's, you know, mostly text. 4 of the key and so forth. 5 like 5 best. 6 7 8 9 Thank you so much. online. Muted, Mike. Yeah; he's I can't turn it on. DR. BROWN: 13 MS. WARREN: 14 MR. MORAN: Yes. Yes, sir. Okay. I have one question, 15 Dr. Brown, before I start. 16 when you announced the designs for the clad. 17 happened to the Reverse 3 on that? I was charging my computer MR. WEINMAN: 18 points out of a possible 33. 20 Reverse 5 received 20. 22 What Reverse 3 was -- received 19 21 There Can you hear me now? 12 18 Let's He's muted. MR. MORAN: we go. But I Is Mike online? MS. WARREN: 10 11 But it's mostly text. DR. BROWN: turn to Mike Moran. It does have the design The one was a -- So they were very close. MR. MORAN: Okay. little bit when I talk here. That will help me a Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I like both Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 137 1 on the Obverse 2 and 4. I think they're both equally 2 good. 3 me a bit of a nudge over to -- for 2 over 4. The incused inscription was the thing that gave 4 On the reverses I wasn't really turned 5 on by any of them. 6 average lot. 7 Five was I thought the best of an But as I worked through this thing this 8 morning again I looked at Clad Reverse 3, which 9 explains why I'm raising the question of where it 10 stands. 11 And when we get to the final discussion 12 I think that one really is a -- when you look at the 13 composition of it, it kind of sums up her life -- that 14 in the end she broke free. 15 And to me it would look very good on 16 the back of a five dollar gold piece. 17 probably withhold any of my votes on reverse and I'll 18 vote for 2 and 4 on the obverse. 19 20 DR. BROWN: Thank you. Thank you so much. Let's turn to Art. 21 22 So I'll MR. BERNSTEIN: Bernstein. Hi; this is Art I was attracted to Obverse 2. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It's a very Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 138 1 modern design. 2 But to me it jumped off the coin. And 3 because this coin is so small I thought there was 4 value in seeing her name as clear as we see it on that 5 design. 6 Obverse 6 was favored by one of the 7 liaisons. 8 rendering of Harriet Tubman. 9 I thought it was also an attractive And then for the reverse, unlike Dean, 10 I actually loved Reverse 3. 11 It's respectful. 12 To me it's traditional. And I might point out I'm sitting next 13 to the US Mint seal. 14 notice that the key on that seal is different than the 15 key on this design. 16 17 18 I've been looking at it. And I So we're safe. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Let's move on to Donald. MR. SCARINCI: So I think Obverse 4 is, 19 you know, is the most powerful one for the gold coin 20 size because it -- you know, the portrait dominates 21 the entire planchet, which is -- that'll play well 22 with a gold coin. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 139 1 My problem is the reverse of this. 2 Because while 5A sounds like it would appear to be the 3 compromise with all of the, you know, the constituent 4 groups that like the hand and like this, you know, 5 these words. 6 You know, I am concerned about 7 combining those two design elements on this gold five 8 dollar coin because it's just -- you're going to need 9 a loop to read the, you know, the words; right? 10 I mean, and the words I think are -- 11 you know, I think the words are more important than 12 the hand here. 13 And I would almost -- you know, if I 14 didn't find design by committee abhorrent I would ask 15 for -- I would either vote for 5A and then make a 16 motion to get rid of the hand and make the words 17 bigger or I would vote for Reverse 3 and get rid of 18 the box and get rid of the key and just put the words; 19 right? 20 I mean, I think the key here is the 21 words. But you know, in deference to the committees, 22 you know, a good compromise with the, you know, groups www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 140 1 would be 5A just as long as we all understand we need 2 a microscope to read it. 3 And you know what? If we just had the 4 words you'd probably need a microscope to read it as 5 well. 6 my three minutes. So it's a very small coin. 7 8 DR. BROWN: So anyway, that's Thank you so much. Turn to Peter. 9 DR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 10 I am happy to join the others in support of Obverse 4. 11 I think that's by far the best choice for this 12 particular coin. 13 The reverses, as others have mentioned, 14 are a little problematic. 15 rather drawn to Obverse 1. 16 Although I have to say I am I do like the human connection quite 17 literally with the -- that grasping hands and the 18 shape of the hands and the arms on that reverse. 19 For me anyway that reverse I think is 20 the most powerful of the lot. 21 weight behind that. 22 Thank you. And so I will throw my But that's all I have to say. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 141 1 2 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Let's turn now to Harcourt. 3 DR. FULLER: Thank you, Dr. Chair. 4 This is Harcourt Fuller. 5 bold. 6 very captivating look. 7 think the image is large enough for that small coin. I think it's She's looking sort of -- you know, she has a 8 9 I like 4. I also like 5 as well. And I would agree with Mike and Art on the reverse. I think R3 is nice because it goes well 10 with the obverse. 11 the diversity in terms of the design elements. 12 that's how I would score it. 13 14 15 I You know, and I think it adds to DR. BROWN: So Thank you. Thank you so much. Let's go to Darla. MS. JACKSON: This is Darla Jackson. 16 want to note two obverse designs very quickly. 17 like No. 2 I enjoy the modern design of it. 18 feel like the portrait is a bit stiff, which has me 19 leaning towards Obverse 4. 20 I I feel However I I think that the nature in which she's 21 looking forward and feels a little bit more relaxed is 22 a really nice way to portray her, especially thinking www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 142 1 about the scale of this coin. 2 really important too. 3 I think that that is In terms of the reverse I would go for 4 Reverse No. 1. 5 too much to make it illegible at that size is 6 important. 7 I think again at this scale not having And I also think that this is looping 8 back to the idea of the hands in the first one. 9 There's two hands here. 10 So maybe at the end of her life, you 11 know, it talks about how much more she had to give. 12 So there's an additional sort of narrative there 13 adding the second hand. 14 15 16 And those are my thoughts. DR. BROWN: Fantastic comments. Let's turn now to Dennis. MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 17 sense a general consensus forming around Obverse 4. 18 think it's the boldest. 19 I I And it has a little bit of motion in 20 it, which tells us that she's still moving, still has 21 work to do, and is still helping humanity. 22 that -- and it's also a design that will fit well on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So I think Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 143 1 the five dollar canvas. 2 the obverse. 3 So I think that's good for For the reverse, Peter, Darla, you 4 captured my thoughts on the importance of the human 5 interaction. 6 The other designs -- the designs other 7 than 1 and 1A are devoid of that. 8 human interaction. 9 strongest designs for the reverse. 10 They just lack that So I think that those are the The liaisons preferred 1A so I would 11 give my votes to that. 12 Reverse 1A. 13 be something for the liaisons to weigh in on if they 14 have an editorial style guide. 15 So it would be Obverse 4, Something I would point out -- this might I see a couple different ways that 16 self-determination is punctuated -- either with or 17 without the hyphen. 18 I don't know if that's something that's 19 been thought of or formalized. 20 to think about when the time comes. 21 Brown. 22 DR. BROWN: But something for us Thank you, Dr. Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Kellen? Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 144 1 MR. HOARD: Yeah. I'm in consensus 2 with everyone else on Obverse 4 there. 3 really to add that hasn't already been said except for 4 that what I think having kind of the large, up-close, 5 kind of more natural portrait does is it makes me feel 6 a little bit like I'm there with her, which I think is 7 good. She's forward-looking. 8 9 I have nothing For the reverse I'm aligned with Dennis on actually 1A. I wasn't super blown away by any of 10 the reverse designs like some other people mentioned. 11 And I'm a little worried about the size. 12 But what I think 1A brings that 1 does 13 not is actually having those values kind of around the 14 outer rim there, which I think is really important. 15 Because as I mentioned in the earlier 16 designs, part of the importance of these for me today 17 are the values that Harriet Tubman brought and that 18 continue to be relevant to this day. 19 I think emphasizing those is actually 20 not only more relevant to the general public and more 21 compelling to the general public but also just 22 something that's really important to have there in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 145 1 conjunction with the design and which is something 2 that far outlasts her in an important way. 3 actually focus on emphasizing those. 4 So I would With that said, you'll hear me say this 5 on this piece and other pieces that we're going to 6 consider later today is I'm not a big fan of vertical 7 lists on coins like that on 3 where it's just, you 8 know, kind of a straight up list. 9 that. 10 I don't really like Same with, like, 5A. I think it's -- 11 kind of 5A kind of has too much blocks of text where 12 it's a little hard to, you know, actually see. 13 What I think 1A does really well is it 14 kind of spreads that around the coin in an 15 aesthetically pleasing way while still again 16 emphasizing those values. 17 I like the hands. She's lifting us 18 actually toward those values in many ways through her 19 life and beyond that. 20 And so I think -- and I think what they 21 do by actually having it surrounding the design is 22 show how foundational -- how they encompassed www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 146 1 everything she did. 2 emphasize. 3 the six. 4 And I think that's important to And this design does that the best out of DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. I'd 5 like to share with you that I agree with many of the 6 comments from my colleagues. 7 been really touched by Obverse 2 and 4. 8 9 10 I get the feeling I've And reverse I say that, hearing from the comments, Reverses 1A, 3, and 5 are things that I felt really they're appealing for me. 11 At this point I'm going to ask are 12 there any additional comments first from our committee 13 members? 14 then to the engraving staff. 15 And then I'm going to go to our liaisons and DR. FULLER: 16 is Harcourt Fuller. 17 committee members. Committee members? Thank you very much. This I have a question for the Can we go back to R1A, please? 18 And I just want to know if the hands 19 are -- what's the word -- how close are they to her 20 actual hands; right? 21 have had that photograph; right? 22 true likeness of her actual hands? Because by this time we would Yes. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So is it a Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 147 1 MS. HILL: No. 2 DR. FULLER: What was the -- 3 MS. WARREN: No. 4 DR. FULLER: No? 5 MS. HILL: Okay. But there are -- I believe 6 with further work with the artist there are enough 7 images that capture her hands. 8 The gold coin is supposed to capture her in her later 9 years. 10 And she's older now. So the hands are hands of a worker. 11 They're wrinkled. 12 strong. 13 think a little bit more detail to show that she -- 14 those are the hands of a hard worker. 15 They're gnarled. But they're So from the strength perspective, yes. But I And you don't see it so much on palm 16 side. 17 should be a little bit -- or just a little bit more -- 18 you know, she worked a garden herself without 19 gardening gloves; okay? 20 Well, you see more of it palm side. But it And you know, so that, you know, she 21 milked the cows. She had an orchard. 22 these things herself with her hands. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 She did all And this is her Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 148 1 later in life. 2 And it should reflect it. I would say that I think the image is 3 powerful because it shows her again reaching, bringing 4 people through. 5 And if I could, you know, I believe Dr. 6 Brown talked about the Obverse 2 and 4. 7 seems to be a lot of consensus around 4. And there 8 I think it's terribly important that 9 this committee might consider just pulling back the 10 headwrap to show some of her natural hair. 11 It's really important because people 12 have taken Harriet Tubman's image, you know, and 13 created another image of her. 14 headwrap. 15 to show in that if it is actually 4. And they all have a Because I think that some of her hair needs 16 DR. BROWN: Okay. 17 MR. SAUNDERS: John? After hearing people I 18 have a couple comments on the reverse design. First 19 is the ones that have two choices. 20 01 against 01A and 05 against 05A just because I think 21 they're less busy. 22 busy. I strongly favor And I like seeing the coin less www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 149 1 So the real question I have is I agree 2 with Mike. I think the 03 design for the clad half 3 would make an excellent reverse on a five dollar gold 4 piece. 5 here. I think it blows away all the rest of them 6 And in that connection, first of all 7 I'd like to ask Joe if it's workable because I think 8 it is. But maybe we should get an expert opinion. 9 And then two, I'd like to ask Dr. Brown 10 if we want to do that reverse on the 5 how do we go 11 about doing it if we can't vote for it? 12 DR. BROWN: 13 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 14 MR. MENNA: 15 sorry, John. 16 personal email briefly. Joe? Can we see it? This is Joe Menna. Can you repeat? I was responding to a 17 MR. SAUNDERS: 18 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 4: 19 I'm The -Pam, can you show Clad Reverse -- 20 MR. SAUNDERS: The reverse -- 21 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 4: 22 MR. SAUNDERS: -- 03 -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 -- 3? Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 150 1 MR. MENNA: Right. 2 MR. SAUNDERS: 3 for the clad half-dollar? 4 MR. MENNA: 5 MR. SAUNDERS: 6 Okay. MR. MENNA: 8 MR. SAUNDERS: 9 MR. MENNA: I mean -- Absolutely not. Not? The bottom text is way too small. 11 12 Would that work on the reverse for a five dollar gold piece? 7 10 Can you put up 03 again MR. SAUNDERS: So you'd have to -- okay. 13 DR. BROWN: While you're pondering the 14 next question, are there any other questions from 15 committee members? 16 from the liaisons based on the conversation? 17 Do we have any further comments MS. HILL: Yeah. At this, you know, in 18 her latter stages of life she's at the point now where 19 she's being asked to speak a lot; okay? 20 lot of speaking engagements all over the country quite 21 frankly. 22 She's doing a And she's teaching a lot. And so her core values -- those seven www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 151 1 core values which are -- surround the coin with the 2 hand in her -- or in the sort of plaque flow -- they 3 need to be there because that's what we have an 4 obligation as a nation to put forth. 5 If you are a student of Tubman then you 6 owe it to yourself to know what her core values were, 7 what led her. 8 nothing better to communicate that than these coins 9 that are going to go out to everyone. 10 11 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. MR. MENNA: No. We have no further comments. 14 MR. COSTELLO: 15 DR. BROWN: Nope. Okay. 16 let us then vote -- score. 17 return your scoresheets to Greg. 18 minutes. No. Hearing none, then Sorry. And then please We will take five Yep; five minutes' recess. 19 20 Joe, Mike, any further comments you have? 12 13 And so I think, you know, there's MS. WARREN: It's 11:09. Stopped recording now. 21 (Off the record.) 22 MS. WARREN: Okay, Dr. Brown. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It's Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 152 1 11:13. 2 going. Court reporter's ready and the recording is 3 DR. BROWN: 4 MS. WARREN: We are -And just so you know, Mike 5 Moran is out for the moment but he'll be back on 6 shortly. 7 DR. BROWN: Understood. We are back. 8 Recognize once again Greg Weinman, counsel to the 9 CCAC, to present the results from the scoring sheets. 10 MR. WEINMAN: Once again out of the 11 possible score of 33 points for obverse there was a 12 clear favorite. 13 Obverse 1 received 2 points. Obverse 1A received 3 points. 14 2 received 11. 15 possible 33 points. 16 Obverse 6 received 6 points. 17 Obverse Obverse 4 received 30 out of a Obverse 5 received 4 points. There was a little more ambiguity 18 towards the reverse. 19 Obverse 1 received 16 out of 33 points. 20 received 20 out of 33 points, making it the high vote- 21 getter. 22 But there was a clear favorite. Obverse 1A Obverse 2 received 1 point. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Obverse 3 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 153 1 received 7 points. 2 Obverse 5A received 10 points. 3 4 Obverse 5 received 9 points. MS. WARREN: And A hand's raised by Dennis Tucker. 5 DR. BROWN: 6 MR. TUCKER: Dennis? Thank you, Dr. Brown. 7 Barring any further discussion on this I'd like to 8 make a motion for our recommendations. 9 DR. BROWN: Dennis, let me suggest that 10 we hear all the votes for all the planchets first once 11 again. 12 probably in context. 13 high vote-getters? 14 And that will place your recommendation Do you want to hear just the Just the high vote. MR. WEINMAN: Yes. Okay. For the 15 scoring back -- so to refresh everybody's 16 recollection, going back to silver. 17 getter for the silver obverse was Obverse No. 1 with 18 22. 19 The high vote- And this is slightly adjusted because 20 Donald Scarinci did submit his scores. And so it is 21 now -- Silver Obverse 1 had 22 and is the high vote- 22 getter. But a close second was Obverse 7 with 20. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 154 1 On the reverses there was a clear 2 favored with reverse -- Silver Reverse 1 with 26 out 3 of a possible 33 points. 4 5 AUTOMATED SPEAKER: Tracy Bradford is now joining. 6 MR. WEINMAN: Moving on to clad. The 7 clear favorite for clad obverse was Clad No. 4 with 28 8 to of 33 possible points, followed by Obverse 7 with 9 16. 10 For the reverses this was -- a little 11 more ambiguity in this one where the favorite was 12 Reverse 5 with a score of 20 points followed closely 13 by Obverse 3 with 18 as well as Obverse 7 with 16 14 points. 15 And then moving back to gold, which we 16 just discussed. 17 favorite. 18 The obverse there was a clear Obverse 4 received 30 of 33 points. A little more ambiguity on the reverses 19 with Reverse 1 receiving 16; Reverse 1A receiving the 20 high vote-getter -- was the high vote-getter receiving 21 20 points. 22 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Dennis, Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 155 1 now we turn to you. 2 MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Dr. Brown. I'd 3 like to make a motion that the committee recommend to 4 the Secretary of the Treasury for the silver dollar 5 Obverse 1 and Reverse 1, for the clad half-dollar 6 Obverse 4 and Reverse 5, for the gold five dollar 7 Obverse 4 and Reverse 5 with the design of Obverse 4 8 at the Mint's discretion being modified according to 9 the recommendation of Ms. Hill regarding Harriet 10 Tubman's hair. 11 getters that Greg just enumerated. 12 All of these reflect the high vote- DR. BROWN: I think you may have -- 13 which is for gold -- the gold reverse? 14 you say? The high -- 15 16 MR. TUCKER: I'm sorry. 17 18 Which one did Yeah. Gold Reverse 1A. 1A. DR. BROWN: Yes. Okay. Just clarifying. 19 MR. TUCKER: I said 5. 20 DR. BROWN: Understood. 21 MR. HOARD: I'll second that motion. 22 DR. BROWN: Kellen seconds. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 But I meant 1A. Is there a Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 156 1 discussion on the motion? 2 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 3 DR. BROWN: 4 DR. KOTLOWSKI: I'd like to discuss -- Dean? This is Dean Kotlowski. 5 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again continuing my 6 tradition here of independent thinking -- always very 7 respectful. 8 here. I think with the clad I have a difficulty I like Obverse 4. 9 I believe it's Obverse 4. If you do Obverse 5 -- I know it's a 10 preference of the liaisons. 11 to quarrel and quibble. 12 point where Harriet Tubman's featured on both sides. 13 With the other coins we had some sort 14 of text or some sort of imagery that gets at Harriet 15 Tubman and her accomplishments and her life in a 16 different way. 17 I'm certainly not going But this would be the only And so it's -- that's something that 18 just bothers me a little bit. 19 want to depict her personage as much as we possibly 20 can. 21 choice. 22 It's not that I don't But I really do feel that three is the stronger And since they're so close I'm www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 157 1 wondering if anybody feels the same way as I do, 2 especially since I think that the -- you know, we have 3 a lot of coins that do a lot of explaining with text. 4 And sometimes there is beauty in brevity as a wise man 5 once said. 6 And I think the idea of free and the 7 chains being broken -- the Emancipation Proclamation 8 and the emancipation of enslaved people was an 9 important part of the Civil War. 10 And I think that that messaging is in that coin. 11 We're doing a lot of designs that are 12 very, very -- I think very traditional and familiar. 13 Here is something that is a little more modern and a 14 little bit more of the -- maybe the tabletop test -- 15 the coin that catches your eye. 16 negative space here, raised and infused. 17 I find this one very, very, you know, 18 breaking barriers. 19 have one slash two dollar. 20 There's a lot of You don't say half-dollar but you So it's a little bit of a broader 21 tradition of Harriet Tubman where you're, you know, 22 you're breaking barriers. You're doing something www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 158 1 different. 2 3 DR. BROWN: motion do you accept this as a friendly amendment? 4 5 So as the maker of the DR. KOTLOWSKI: You'd have to ask Dennis. 6 DR. BROWN: 7 MR. TUCKER: Dennis? I don't think it would be 8 appropriate to accept that friendly amendment without 9 discussion so no. 10 DR. BROWN: 11 MR. TUCKER: 12 should say. 13 that commentary. 14 Okay. Further discussion I And thank you, Dean, for that comment -- MR. WEINMAN: Point of information. 15 This is Greg Weinman. 16 although the two -- Reverse 3 and Reverse 5 -- are 17 very close in votes -- in points -- the points came 18 from completely diametrically opposite sides of the 19 table. 20 It's just noteworthy that In other words, there were one, two, 21 three, four, five members who really liked Reverse 3. 22 And then there were one, two, three, four, five www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 159 1 members who really liked Reverse 5. 2 overlap. 3 view. And there was no And so that's just an interesting point of 4 DR. BROWN: Donald? 5 MR. SCARINCI: So how can we persuade 6 the five to go with Obverse 2 -- or 3; right? 7 definitely, you know, a gorgeous design. 8 9 This is And, you know, and I think, you know, it's very different than, you know, than -- I mean, 10 we're going to have the opportunity to do designs like 11 5 on many, many coins, right, as we consider coin 12 designs. 13 to see again and again and again on coin designs. But it's not -- that's something we're going 14 But what we're seeing with 3 is really 15 creative and artistic and contemporary and the kind of 16 -- and it's an impactful image that will stick in your 17 head. 18 know, it really has -- you know, it's really going to 19 be beautiful. And I think when it appears as a coin, you 20 So I, you know, I would strongly urge, 21 you know, if we revote this -- and maybe we should -- 22 and maybe the maker of the motion should withdraw the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 160 1 motion and maybe we should consider this first to see 2 if we have an agreement on changing -- on making this 3 our selection. 4 MR. WEINMAN: So but by the way, just 5 to clarify my earlier comment I did -- there was 6 one -- Dennis equally supported the two. 7 MR. TUCKER: 8 MR. WEINMAN: 9 two. Yes. You equally supported the So you're the one -- you are the overlap. 10 MR. SCARINCI: 11 MR. TUCKER: 12 MR. SCARINCI: 13 MR. TUCKER: 14 DR. BROWN: 15 MR. TUCKER: Ah. Thank you. There you go, Dennis. If I may, Dr. Brown? Please proceed. This is Dennis Tucker. 16 Greg, I was going to follow up with a comment along 17 those lines. 18 three points to both 5 and 3. 19 I was one of those over lappers who gave But I think after listening to our 20 liaisons as much as I loved 3 as a design and an 21 innovative design I would take away my three points if 22 that makes sense and keep my three points for 5. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 161 1 Even though it is a more conservative 2 and traditional coin design it does tell the story. 3 And getting back to this thought of our liaisons being 4 the teachers of Harriet Tubman's story, I think 5 5 works. 6 7 8 9 DR. BROWN: Thank you very much. So let's go to -- we've got Art, Kellen, and then Peter. MR. BERNSTEIN: suggestion and a comment. I have a parliamentary My parliamentary suggestion 10 is I would find it easier if we voted on each coin 11 independently because there are variations that are 12 being suggested. 13 And it's just hard if we're looking at 14 six different choices. 15 coin independently. 16 And I'm suggesting we do each That's my suggestion. My comment has to do -- and this is 17 more about the way in which we score things. 18 we're talking about the silver dollar, I happen to be 19 a big fan of Design 7, Obverse 7, which had 20 points. 20 So if Obverse 1 squeaked ahead with 22. But 21 if we were to revote and throw out the losers it could 22 completely flip the result. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 162 1 And it's just -- I find a little 2 troubling that we're almost ready to approve Design 3 Obverse 1 for the silver dollar when in fact that 4 majority of us may prefer a different design but we 5 were voting on eight designs and not two. 6 DR. BROWN: Thank you for your 7 comments. 8 we revise or consider for you to revise and probably 9 withdraw your motion to allow consideration of a 10 So Dennis, there's been a suggestion that motion on each separate planchet. 11 MR. TUCKER: 12 DR. BROWN: 13 MR. TUCKER: No. Do you accept? I would ask -- Okay. -- that we just vote on my 14 motion. And if it has no support we vote it down and 15 then continue from there. 16 DR. BROWN: Understood. 17 MR. HOARD: I would speak in favor on Next, Kellen? 18 Clad Reverse 5, which is what was currently the 19 highest vote-getter. 20 And where I come from on that is not 21 only liaison support for it but actually as this is 22 the most accessible coin to the general public and I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 163 1 think the one that will be particularly well-received 2 both on, you know, price point and on design. 3 This is our opportunity to educate, as 4 we've discussed, probably the most effectively out of 5 any of the coins. 6 is most known for is her pursuit of freedom through 7 the Underground Railroad and whatnot. 8 opportunity to actually really build upon that. 9 Because I think what Harriet Tubman This is our And I think what 3 does, even though 10 it's an innovative design, what 3 does is it kind of 11 reemphasizes the focus on freedom. 12 It doesn't communicate as much new 13 information as I think we're able to do in as 14 compelling a way as we're able to do. 15 And I think this is our opportunity to, 16 you know, get -- promote that education on a new 17 subject through Reverse 5 in not only a good-looking 18 way but also in a way that will reach a large number 19 of people and explicitly reach a large number of 20 people as we've discussed before the need for being 21 explicit is sometimes -- 22 DR. BROWN: Peter? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 164 1 2 MR. WEINMAN: the floor to go with all the high vote-getters. 3 4 There's still a motion on MR. HOARD: So I would speak in favor of that motion. 5 MR. WEINMAN: Yes. 6 DR. VAN ALFEN: Yeah. I just want to 7 say quickly I would speak in favor of that motion as 8 well. 9 give it too many points. While I really do like Reverse 3, I did not 10 What I'm concerned about with adopting 11 the Reverse 3 with Obverse 4 -- I believe it is -- is 12 stylistic incongruity. 13 be much better paired with Obverse 5, for example, 14 where you would have obverse reverse -- is this one of 15 the -- 16 17 18 I think that Reverse 3 would UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 5: Yes. There were three. DR. VAN ALFEN: Right. And I think 19 that 5 -- Reverse 5 or 4 -- I'm sorry. I'm losing 20 track of the numbers here. 21 proposed there is more congruity with the obverse- 22 reverse designs. But I think that as So I'm happy to support Dennis's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 165 1 2 3 motion. DR. BROWN: motion on the table. We're speaking to the So John and then Donald. 4 MR. SAUNDERS: 5 some very dangerous -- I agree with Donald. 6 the only time we'll agree on anything. 7 Well, again it brings I like 3 better. Probably But I also think what 8 Art said is really important. If we have two that are 9 close we should have a vote between the two that are 10 close because a lot of people, you know, have a 11 choice, like, one way or the other. 12 But you know, can only give three 13 points to the thing. But I do think it's -- 14 eliminating all the losers, I mean, we'll have a 15 parliamentary -- I think it's something that we should 16 think about doing regularly when there's a close -- 17 you know, there's two clear, close ones and all the 18 rest of them are out. 19 DR. BROWN: 20 MR. SAUNDERS: 21 MR. WEINMAN: 22 So we're having a run-off? Yeah. That's what I -- There's still a motion -- there's a single motion on the table. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 166 1 DR. BROWN: That's right. We're going 2 to only speak to the motion on the table, my 3 colleagues, please. 4 Donald? MR. SCARINCI: So Dennis, since this is 5 your motion and if we're going to be stuck with 6 Reverse 5 that has the tents in -- you've got your 7 Civil War imagery on the reverse. 8 9 Could we possibly agree to clean up the obverse and remove the stuff from the fields so that 10 we have something that matches in a better way as a 11 set, you know, our choice for No. 1 -- our choice for 12 the silver? 13 Could we remove all that stuff? We've 14 got this -- we've now got -- the argument that was 15 made to keep the stuff is the Civil War imagery. 16 if we're going to go with the obverse with the tents 17 you got the Civil War imagery on the reverse. 18 But Do we really need to clutter the 19 obverse with the stuff or can we just get rid of those 20 lines and the boats? Could we live with that? 21 DR. BROWN: 22 MR. TUCKER: Dennis? I mean, that's -- I would www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 167 1 not amend my motion along those lines. 2 people are in agreement with it then we can vote and 3 move in that direction so -- 4 DR. BROWN: But if other Well, let me suggest that 5 be a secondary motion possibly. 6 table is what it is. 7 against the motion? The motion on the Any further comments for or 8 Hearing none, just as a reminder and to 9 not necessary lobby the committee -- as strong as this 10 motion can be passed as a different message to the 11 Secretary. 12 of the motion on the table signify by saying "aye". So with that in mind, all those in favor 13 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 14 DR. BROWN: 15 All those opposed signify by saying "nay". 16 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 17 DR. BROWN: 18 Aye. numbers? Nay. Can you total those I need to do a roll call. 19 MR. MORAN: This is Mike Moran. 20 DR. BROWN: Yes, Mike? 21 MR. MORAN: Can you read the motion out 22 again? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 168 1 2 MR. WEINMAN: As I understand, the motion is to recommend all the high vote-getters. 3 MS. WARREN: 4 called which those are. 5 asking. 6 Mike wasn't on when you That's probably why he's MR. TUCKER: Oh. This is Dennis 7 Tucker. 8 gold obverse. 9 modification to Harriet Tubman's hair and bandanna. 10 There was one modification recommended to the I think Ms. Hill had recommended a So I would leave that to the Mint's 11 discretion to consider that design modification. 12 was part of the original motion. 13 That Other than that, yes, it was -- the 14 motion is basically to recommend to the Secretary of 15 the Treasury the high vote-getters from our ranking. 16 17 DR. BROWN: Mike, does that answer your question or do you need more information? 18 MR. MORAN: No; that answers it. 19 DR. BROWN: Thank you, sir. We're 20 going to need to do by show of hands a vote for this 21 motion. 22 Art Bernstein? MR. BERNSTEIN: Nay. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 169 1 DR. BROWN: Okay. 2 DR. FULLER: 3 DR. BROWN: 4 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 5 DR. BROWN: 6 MR. SAUNDERS: 7 DR. BROWN: Mike? 8 MR. MORAN: Nay. 9 DR. BROWN: Donald? Nay. Dean? Nay. John? 10 MR. SCARINCI: 11 DR. BROWN: 12 Harcourt? Nay. Nay. Dennis? Well, you made the motion. 13 MR. TUCKER: Yay. 14 DR. BROWN: 15 DR. VAN ALFEN: 16 DR. BROWN: 17 MS. JACKSON: 18 DR. BROWN: Kellen? 19 MR. HOARD: Aye. 20 DR. BROWN: And Chair votes -- not Peter? Aye. Darla? Aye. 21 necessary. But I think this motion fails. 22 we are ready for another motion. Okay. Let's go to, in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Now Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 170 1 fact, Art Bernstein. 2 MR. BERNSTEIN: I move that we consider 3 the silver dollar designs and take a revote on the 4 choices amongst the obverse limited to the two high 5 scorers. 6 7 DR. BROWN: Is there a second for that motion? 8 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 6: I second it. 9 MR. MORAN: Mike Moran. Yes. 10 DR. BROWN: Okay. 11 Mike was second. Discussion on motion? 12 MR. HOARD: I would speak against the 13 motion of revoting. 14 But I would actually make a motion to vote on the top 15 vote-getters. 16 This would be a separate thing. But I would actually make a motion 17 against revoting given the fact that the way the 18 voting system is structured it's not that you have a 19 limited number of points to allocate between them. 20 But sure; you've got -- might have more 21 designs. But you could have given all of them threes. 22 The revoting doesn't really change allocation. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 171 1 It's not like you have ten to choose 2 points between. 3 somewhere super productive. 4 So I'm not sure that would get us I would think that it would make more 5 sense to vote nay on that motion and then put in a 6 motion to actually just approve the design for the top 7 vote-getters. 8 9 MR. WEINMAN: friendly amendment. That sounds like a Actually I think that it probably 10 makes more sense to just make a motion to support 11 either 01 or 07 and then see how the vote comes out. 12 DR. BROWN: Okay. 13 MR. HOARD: So would you accept a 14 friendly amendment to just vote on the top vote- 15 getters of Obverse 1 and Reverse 1? 16 MR. BERNSTEIN: No. I think I would 17 prefer to do what I heard Greg suggest, which was I 18 would like to I guess amend my motion -- 19 DR. BROWN: 20 MR. BERNSTEIN: 21 22 Okay. -- that we select Obverse 7 as the design for the silver dollar. DR. BROWN: Along with the reverse? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 172 1 2 MR. BERNSTEIN: to that -- 3 DR. BROWN: 4 MR. BERNSTEIN: 5 DR. BROWN: 6 MR. BERNSTEIN: 7 DR. BROWN: 8 MR. WEINMAN: 9 14 -- one issue. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. We have a clear motion on DR. BROWN: Is there a second for the MR. MORAN: I'll second it. DR. BROWN: Mike Moran seconds. motion? 12 13 Okay. the table. 10 11 I was just limiting it It's Mike Moran. Any 15 further discussion on the motion? 16 those in favor of the motion signify by saying "aye". 17 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 18 DR. BROWN: 19 Aye. All those opposed to the motion signify by saying "nay". 20 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 21 DR. BROWN: 22 Hearing none, all Nay. Another roll call. So we know where you stand, Art. Harcourt? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Okay. Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 173 1 DR. FULLER: Nay. 2 DR. BROWN: 3 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 4 DR. BROWN: 5 MR. SAUNDERS: 6 DR. BROWN: Okay. 7 MR. MORAN: Aye. 8 DR. BROWN: Donald? 9 MR. SCARINCI: Okay. Nay. John? Aye. Mike? No. 10 DR. BROWN: 11 MR. TUCKER: 12 DR. BROWN: 13 DR. VAN ALFEN: 14 DR. BROWN: 15 MS. TUCKER: 16 DR. BROWN: Kellen? 17 MR. HOARD: Nay. 18 MR. WEINMAN: 19 Dean? Dennis? Nay. Peter? Nay. Darla? Nay. Sounds like the motion fails. 20 DR. BROWN: Next motion? 21 MR. HOARD: I'd like to make a motion 22 Kellen? to approve both Obverse 1 and Reverse 1 -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 174 1 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 7: 2 MR. HOARD -- for the silver dollar. 3 DR. BROWN: Is there a second -- 4 MR. HOARD: Correct. 5 DR. BROWN: Which one? 7 MR. HOARD: The top vote-getters. 8 DR. BROWN: Yes. 9 MR. HOARD: Yeah. 10 DR. BROWN: Obverse 1 and Reverse 1; 6 11 Silver dollar. The silver dollar? Okay. yes. 12 DR. VAN ALFEN: 13 DR. BROWN: 14 MR. SCARINCI: And I'll second that -- Okay. Second by Peter. Point of order. 15 really need a motion because they're the two 16 prevailing designs? 17 DR. BROWN: 18 MR. SCARINCI: 19 DR. BROWN: Do we They would be the default. Oh, okay. It would be -- that would 20 be the default position. If you want -- but however 21 when the letter is written it does give the 22 recommendation more strength if it comes from a motion www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 175 1 so -- 2 3 MR. WEINMAN: Especially if it's unanimous. 4 DR. KOTLOWSKI: This is Dean Kotlowski. 5 I think in light of the extended discussion that we've 6 had today it might be a good idea just to take a vote 7 on this motion. 8 9 10 DR. BROWN: Okay. discussion on the motion on the table? Hearing none, all those in favor, aye. 11 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 12 DR. BROWN: 13 Any further nay. Aye. Opposed to the -- opposed Motion carries unanimously. 14 MR. WEINMAN: 15 DR. BROWN: Next motion. 16 MR. HOARD: I'd like to make a motion 17 All right. DR. VAN ALFEN: 19 DR. BROWN: Second. Okay. Van Alfen. That's the gold. Repeat it once more. 21 22 Kellen? on the gold piece for Obverse 4 and Reverse 1A. 18 20 One down. MR. HOARD: Obverse 4 and Reverse 1A for the gold. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 176 1 DR. BROWN: Okay. 3 MR. HOARD: This is gold. 4 DR. BROWN: Discussion? 5 MR. SCARINCI: 2 6 second. DR. BROWN: 8 MR. SCARINCI: Please. Could we also amend the motion to include the showing of the hair? 10 11 Discussion on the motion? 7 9 And there's a MR. HOARD: Oh, and of course, yes, it would also include at the Mint's discretion for that. 12 DR. BROWN: 13 discussion on the motion? 14 favor, aye. Okay. Any further Hearing none, all those in 15 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 16 DR. BROWN: Aye. Opposed, nay. 17 the motion carries unanimously. 18 the table? Okay. Seems like Next motion on 19 MR. HOARD: Now I'm nervous. 20 DR. BROWN: Go for it, Kellen. 21 MR. HOARD: I would motion to approve 22 Obverse 4 and Reverse 5 -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 177 1 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 8: 2 MR. HOARD: 3 MS. WARREN: 4 DR. BROWN: 6 MR. TUCKER: second. 14 15 I was going to admit that DR. BROWN: Very good. MR. HOARD: Obverse 4 and Reverse 5 for DR. BROWN: Yes; okay. There's been a Any further discussion on the motion? MR. SCARINCI: Excuse me. Just for clarification, so we're talking about the gold? 16 MR. HOARD: 17 MR. SCARINCI: 18 DR. BROWN: 19 MR. SCARINCI: 20 Repeat the the clad. 12 13 Dennis? motion again. 10 11 Dennis has his hand same motion so I'll second it. 8 9 For the clad. raised. 5 7 For the clad. the clad. The clad. Clad. Clad. Oh, we're talking about I'm sorry. 21 DR. FULLER: 22 DR. BROWN: I guess -- may I? Please. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 178 1 DR. FULLER: My only concern is I feel 2 -- and I don't even remember how I voted. 3 4 from the clad and Reverse 5 to me -- I'm sorry. 4 I see Obverse 4 and Reverse 5? But Obverse 5 MS. WARREN: Four is up right now. 6 DR. FULLER: Four and Reverse 5. 7 just look similar to me. 8 I'm sorry. 9 DR. FULLER: 11 DR. BROWN: 12 Yep. And that's it. Further comments on the motion on the table? 13 14 They It's like a two-headed coin. MR. SCARINCI: 10 Can MR. SCARINCI: I completely agree with Harcourt. 15 DR. KOTLOWSKI: This is Dean Kotlowski. 16 That's the point I've been trying to make even earlier 17 today. 18 DR. BROWN: Okay. Someone want to 19 offer a friendly amendment for the maker of the 20 motion? 21 22 DR. KOTLOWSKI: I can do an unfriendly one. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 179 1 DR. BROWN: You can just vote it down. MR. HOARD: You can just vote it down 5 DR. BROWN: Okay. 6 MR. HOARD: I would speak on that 2 Okay. 3 4 then. 7 discussion as well. Earlier to Peter's point, I think 8 there is something to be said for continuity between 9 the designs in addition to what I said about there 10 actually being greater value in having some level of 11 explicit education out there. 12 And then actually even though I think 13 Reverse 3 I think is the one that is an alternative, 14 even though I think that one does have, you know, some 15 level of education to it. 16 Even beyond the points of congruity and 17 education it's just not I think as attractive a design 18 as it could be, including the fact that I think the 19 chains to me look a little bit like ClipArt as they're 20 currently set. 21 22 And that I could go into, you know, Word and search "broken chains" and pop that in. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 180 1 so that's less visually compelling to me than -- again 2 as a student with a limited budget who wants to buy 3 one of these coins, one that would last -- learn 4 something new and share that with people as well -- as 5 a coin collector share the education factor of it. 6 DR. BROWN: 7 DR. KOTLOWSKI: Thank you, Mr. 8 Chairman. 9 have a very full set here of three coins and then a 10 Dean Kotlowski. Dean? lot of text. 11 I think that, you know, we We have a lot of education here. I think I'm not persuaded that this 12 reverse is incongruous with the first obverse. 13 think that -- I think there's just, like Harcourt was 14 saying, there's just too much similarity between the 15 two. 16 I You have a figure of Harriet Tubman. 17 And then you've got something kind of military in the 18 background. 19 little bit like you're hammering the point home just a 20 little too much. 21 22 And I think you're just -- it feels a And I'm going to go back to where I started here about three hours ago talking about the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 181 1 design I love more than life itself -- that no one 2 else loved, by the way. 3 You know, I'm going to keep -- I'm not 4 going to let it go. I think there needs to be a place 5 for some kind of modernity and innovation here -- 6 something that really -- I mean, where you pick it up 7 and you think, "Oh my goodness. 8 It's a different way of experiencing Harriet Tubman. 9 That's all. This is a leader." I'm not going to say anymore. 10 DR. BROWN: Appreciate it. 11 motion on the table here. 12 comments about the motion on the table? Anyone have any further 13 MR. SCARINCI: 14 MR. TUCKER: 15 DR. BROWN: 16 MR. TUCKER: 17 DR. BROWN: 18 And then Donald. 19 We have a Yes. Dr. Brown? Dean? This is Dennis Tucker. Oh, I'm sorry. Dennis? Proceed, Dennis. MR. TUCKER: Oh, thank you. This is 20 Dennis Tucker. 21 comes to the reverse of the clad half-dollar. 22 We can listen to our liaisons when it Reverse 3 was only favored. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Reverse 5 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 182 1 was a formal preference. A minor or seemingly minor 2 distinction, but I think one that's important. 3 would say we give the weight to the liaisons' 4 preference of Reverse 5. 5 DR. BROWN: 6 MR. SCARINCI: So I Donald? So I guess, you know, if 7 I have to be the lawyer here on what the -- and 8 interpret what the liaisons were saying, there is one 9 things that's not happening in all three coins that is 10 not going to happen unless we support 3 for this 11 reverse. 12 And that is that the word "Free" is not 13 used in this entire set unless you use it here and you 14 select -- and select Reverse 3. 15 DR. BROWN: 16 vote now. 17 table please say "aye". I think we are prepared to All those in favor of the motion on the 18 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 19 DR. BROWN: 20 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 21 MR. WEINMAN: 22 DR. BROWN: Aye. Those opposed? Nay. Roll call. Roll call. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Art Bernstein? Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 183 1 MR. BERNSTEIN: 2 DR. BROWN: 3 DR. FULLER: 4 Harcourt? I'm a little bit confused about what we're voting on. 5 MR. SCARINCI: 6 DR. BROWN: 7 8 9 No. Yeah. We're voting on the motion -MR. WEINMAN: You're voting on recommending Obverse 4 and Reverse 5. 10 DR. FULLER: Nay. 11 DR. BROWN: 12 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 13 DR. BROWN: 14 MR. SAUNDERS: 15 DR. BROWN: Mike? 16 MR. MORAN: Nay. 17 DR. BROWN: Donald? 18 MR. SCARINCI: 19 DR. BROWN: 20 MR. TUCKER: 21 DR. BROWN: 22 DR. VAN ALFEN: Dean? Nay. John? Nay. Nay. Dennis? Yay. Yes. Peter? Yes. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 184 1 DR. BROWN: 2 MS. JACKSON: 3 DR. BROWN: Kellen? 4 MR. HOARD: Aye. 5 DR. BROWN: Did I get everyone's vote? 6 It fails. Darla? Aye. It fails. 7 MR. MENNA: Could I add something? 8 DR. BROWN: You certainly may. 9 MR. MENNA: Just if it makes anyone 10 feel better or worse, just from a purely technical 11 perspective, Dr. Dean brought up a stamp that had this 12 graphic image because it works very successfully as a 13 graphic image. 14 It is a graphic image. It will 15 generate a totally flat coin if that's of any interest 16 to anyone. 17 design. I'm not saying it's not an excellent 18 But it is a graphic design, brilliant 19 as it may be. 20 coin one will not have it on that artistically 21 speaking. 22 If one is interested in relief on a DR. BROWN: -- not a reverse. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 185 1 MR. MENNA: 2 MR. VASQUEZ: 3 The reverse, reverse. May I follow up on that, please? 4 DR. BROWN: May I suggest the 5 appropriate time to get a motion on the table and then 6 we can have discussion after? 7 we've got three possibilities. 8 Peter. 9 DR. VAN ALFEN: I see the hands. Let's start with My notes indicate that 10 Obverse 5 of the clad was the runner-up. 11 to adopt Reverse 5 with Reverse 3. 12 DR. BROWN: 13 DR. VAN ALFEN: 14 17 18 19 20 My motion is Obverse 5? Or Obverse 5 with Reverse 3 to see if that gets us our vote. 15 16 So DR. BROWN: Is there a second for that motion? DR. KOTLOWSKI: I second that. That's actually what I was going to move. DR. BROWN: Very good. Further discussions on that motion? 21 MR. SCARINCI: 22 one we're talking about now? Can you show us which www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 186 1 2 MR. HOARD: This obverse with Reverse 3, which is the -- this reverse. 3 DR. BROWN: Let's go to Kellen. 4 MR. HOARD: I would just say this 5 design to me moves entirely away from her work during 6 the Civil War. 7 And as a member of the public I would 8 not only not realize it was related to the Civil War, 9 I would also have nothing to indicate to me that I 10 should look more into her Civil War work by my own 11 research. 12 So I would probably not support this 13 motion just in that I think it's too far divorced from 14 the lineage we're trying to establish. 15 DR. BROWN: So Peter, I see you're 16 shaking your head. 17 to withdraw your motion or not? 18 19 Does that mean that you're willing DR. VAN ALFEN: this motion goes. 20 DR. BROWN: 21 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 22 I'd like to see where withdraw my second. Okay. Dr. Brown, I have to I thought this was for 4 and 3. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 187 1 And it's not. 2 my second. It's for 5 and 3. 3 MR. SAUNDERS: 4 DR. BROWN: 5 I'll second it. So John, you had a comment about the -- 6 MR. SAUNDERS: 7 DR. BROWN: 8 So I'm withdrawing Yeah. I -- We've got the motion on the table that I'm happy to revise -- 9 MR. SAUNDERS: Okay. I have a problem 10 with 5. I think the leaves when you first look at it. 11 Again the average person looks at it they're going to 12 think it's a feather. 13 And all of a sudden we've turned her 14 into a Native American here. 15 Native Americans. 16 17 Nothing wrong with But they're just -- MS. HILL: Right. But it's not what we're doing here. 18 MR. HOARD: Are we able to ask -- 19 DR. BROWN: We certainly are. 20 MS. HILL: If I could, this is a 21 beautiful coin. But it's not -- it is not 22 sufficiently depicting her work in using natural www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 188 1 medicine to be honest about it. 2 feathers. 3 And it does look like And I thought it was a headdress. And you need to know that Tubman did a 4 lot of work with native women in the suffrage space. 5 And so I think it's going to really make it very 6 murky. 7 considered. 8 9 And for that reason I don't think it should be And I do think that the 50 cent piece is going to be the one that's going to be the most 10 purchased by young people, by new voters, by a broad 11 swath of people. 12 And even though it has Harriet on both 13 sides of it doesn't make it a bad thing. 14 people feel like for their 50 cents they -- piece they 15 got a whole -- a, like, big bang for their buck so to 16 speak. 17 MR. HOARD: 18 MS. HILL: I think Two Harriets for one. Two Harriets for one. 19 they got some education about the Civil War. 20 scout, spy with the tents. 21 22 And Nurse, That is the one image where what she's wearing is perfect as compared to all the other images www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 189 1 that you've looked at because the other ones have to 2 be adjusted. 3 And I think saying, "Roger, they've got 4 to go and adjust this. 5 that image doesn't need to be adjusted. 6 think that, you know, it -- I could see not having her 7 on both sides. 8 9 10 They've got to adjust" -- but And I just But 4 and 5 as a young person and I bought that piece for -- got that 50 cent piece then I would say I got two Harriets. 11 DR. BROWN: So Peter, do you -- 12 DR. VAN ALFEN: I would like to take 13 those comments into consideration and respectfully 14 withdraw my motion. 15 DR. BROWN: 16 new motion on the table. 17 Dennis. 18 Thank you. We'll hear a Oh, I'm sorry. One second, We'll get to you. MR. KEOWN: I just had a quick comment. 19 I think it's important. I mentioned earlier about 20 talking about the complete -- telling the complete 21 story about Harriet Tubman. 22 important for us to keep the picture in mind. And I think it's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 190 1 And I think the comments that were made 2 about the fact that we're trying to talk about her 3 significant contributions as a conductor in the 4 Underground Railroad, and then the key leadership role 5 she played in the Civil War, and then what she did in 6 her older -- later stages of life. 7 I think it's important to really kind 8 of just -- this Combahee River raid was very, very 9 important. And I think it -- these two pieces that we 10 landed on basically talks to that from a historical 11 standpoint. 12 I think it's very important to keep 13 that in mind -- to share that information. 14 really brings out a significant part of her leadership 15 and contribution to the country. 16 MS. HILL: I think it And there are -- I'm sorry. 17 But there are some significant historical books coming 18 out about the Combahee raid. 19 And I think it would really make this 20 commission committee look like you were behind the -- 21 way behind the curve not to include this piece of 22 history in the 50 cent piece -- in the most obtainable www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 191 1 piece. 2 DR. BROWN: 3 DR. FULLER: Yes? Please permit me -- I know 4 we've been discussing this a lot. 5 some time on this. 6 questions if I may please. 7 And we've spent So I just need to ask a couple of Are you comfortable with a double -- I 8 want to go back to my previous comment. Are you 9 comfortable with a double -- what I'm calling a 10 double-headed coin? I know it's not technically a 11 double-headed coin. But are you comfortable with 12 that? 13 MR. MENNA: This is Joseph Menna. 14 Fuller, with all due respect, I don't feel it's 15 appropriate for me to comment on that. 16 committee discussion. 17 DR. FULLER: That's more I understand. But as a 18 member of the committee I would like your opinion 19 about it. 20 MR. MENNA: Dr. I'm comfortable with a coin 21 where I think historically for me the obverse tells it 22 -- the obverse is kind of the main -- the obverse is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 192 1 kind of the star of the show. 2 And the reverse is typically the 3 supporting cast where the obverse tells the main story 4 and the reverse is exposition. 5 interpret that. 6 MR. WEINMAN: However you want to Point of information. 7 This would not be -- by our standards this would not 8 be a two-headed coin. 9 bodied images. 10 We frequently feature full- MR. MENNA: And an exposition could be 11 if you look at our first spouse full metal series the 12 portrait was prominent on the obverse. 13 Oftentimes the first spouse was again 14 represented telling her story of what she did, how she 15 lived, what she liked on the reverse. 16 presented both times both as the marquis but then also 17 on stage doing what it is that she did. 18 DR. FULLER: So she was And in conclusion, if I 19 may be permitted, just going back to the liaisons -- 20 again we've been talking about this for, you know, a 21 while. 22 portrayed on both sides? So you're fine with the -- with her being That's what you're saying? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 193 1 MS. HILL: 2 DR. FULLER: 3 MS. HILL: 4 Yes. So in that -As long as we're dealing with the Civil War on the reverse. 5 DR. FULLER: So in that case I will 6 withdraw what I said before. 7 along with what the liaisons prefer if that -- and 8 that might mean I'm going back to my original 9 position. 10 And I will happily go But in light of these discussions I 11 will go ahead with what the liaisons have so 12 eloquently pointed out. 13 DR. BROWN: There seems to me from the 14 conversation here that there may be a different 15 receptivity to a motion that failed previously. 16 that be the case, I think -- 17 MR. WEINMAN: 18 DR. BROWN: 19 20 So if Motion to reconsider? Motion to reconsider. And I think, Kellen, you were the maker of that motion. MR. HOARD: Okay. I'll motion to 21 reconsider for the clad piece Obverse 4, Reverse 5 22 based on the comments of the liaisons. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 194 1 DR. BROWN: 2 MR. SCARINCI: 3 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 4 surprise. 5 liaisons said. Is there a second? I'll second. I'm actually going to I'm gong to second now based on what the 6 DR. BROWN: My apologies, Dennis. I 7 just wanted to get through this as quickly as I can. 8 So please forgive me for not recognizing you earlier. 9 Do you have a comment? 10 MR. TUCKER: Understood. Oh, well, I 11 was going to make that same motion. 12 if it comforts people, let you know that there's 13 precedent of having the honoree of a commemorative 14 coin on both obverse and reverse -- the Benjamin 15 Franklin commemoratives and the Christa McAuliffe 16 commemoratives. 17 that concern. 18 But I would also, So if that consoles anyone who had Anyway, that's all I had. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much, Dennis. 19 Any further questions or comments that have not been 20 further discussed previously? 21 in favor of the motion signify by saying "aye". 22 Hearing none, all those MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: Aye. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 195 1 DR. BROWN: 2 MR. SCARINCI: 3 tell people I oppose this. 4 DR. BROWN: All those opposed by "nay". I have to be able to So I'm a nay. Okay. 5 motion passed nearly unanimously. 6 on this matter? It appears that the Any other motions 7 Hearing none, if all discussion has 8 concluded then I would like to take this moment to 9 really express our appreciation and heartfelt thanks 10 to our liaisons for attending this meeting. 11 This has been a meeting that is unlike 12 any that I have come to participate in. So we really 13 want to thank you for what you have provided to us. 14 And we look forward to continuing to 15 support such a phenomenal commemorative coin program. 16 Thank you so much. 17 lunch at this time? Is it possible for us to consider Do you think that's fine? 18 MS. WARREN: 19 DR. BROWN: It's not set up yet; no. Okay. Then if that's the 20 case then may I suggest that we take a five-minute 21 break? 22 Five-minute break and then we'll come back. (Off the record.) www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 196 1 2 MS. WARREN: It is 11:59 a.m. And it is recording. 3 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. The 4 second item for today is our review and discussion of 5 the candidate design for the Congressional Gold Medal 6 for the members of the Women's Army Corps who were 7 assigned to the 6888th Central Postal Director 8 Battalion, known as the Six Triple Eight, authorized 9 by Public Law 117-97. 10 We are so pleased to have Megan 11 Sullivan to introduce the program and present the 12 obverse and reverse candidate designs. 13 MS. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 14 As you mentioned, Public Law 117-97 awards a 15 Congressional Gold Medal to the members of the Women's 16 Army Corps who were assigned to the 6888th Central 17 Postal Directory Battalion, known as the Six Triple 18 Eight. 19 During WWII warehouses in Birmingham, 20 England were filled with millions of letters and 21 packages intended for US servicemembers in Europe. 22 The servicemembers noticed that they were not www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 197 1 receiving mail from home. 2 that the lack of reliable mail was hurting morale. 3 And Army officials reported As Allied forces drove across Europe, 4 the ever-changing locations of servicemembers hampered 5 mail delivery. 6 Army officials reported that the 7 personnel shortage resulted in millions of pieces of 8 undelivered mail and packages sitting in warehouses 9 across the region. Army officials predicted that it 10 would take six months to restore mail delivery to the 11 troops. 12 In November of 1944, a battalion of 13 817, later 824, enlisted personnel and 31 officers of 14 African American women were selected for overseas 15 assignment. 16 This unit was designated as the Six 17 Triple Eight Central Postal Directory Battalion, 18 nicknamed "Six Triple Eight". 19 Adams was chosen as the newly formed unit's battalion 20 commander. 21 22 Major Charity Edna While stationed in Birmingham working in austere wartime conditions and segregated by gender www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 198 1 and race, Major Adams devised an efficient 24-hour 2 mail processing system for the Six Triple Eight to 3 route approximately 65,000 pieces of mail per eight- 4 hour shift. 5 Based on processing approximately 6 195,000 pieces of mail per day, the Six Triple Eight 7 cleared the over seventeen million mail and package 8 backlog in three months -- well ahead of the Army's 9 six-month goal. 10 After mission success in Birmingham, 11 the Six Triple Eight relocated to France and cleared 12 those mail backlogs -- some undelivered mail dating 13 back as far as three years. 14 While in France, the Six Triple Eight 15 suffered a tragic loss when three of its members were 16 killed in a crash and were buried at Normandy, funded 17 by the other members of the Six Triple Eight. 18 On March 2, 1946, the last members of 19 the Six Triple Eight boarded a transport ship in 20 France for return to the United States. 21 22 There was no parade or any recognition for the important work done by the battalion until www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 199 1 they received the Meritorious Unit Commendation from 2 the Army in 2019. 3 The motto of the Six Triple Eight was 4 "No mail, low morale", reflecting the critical 5 contributions made by the unit to increase the morale 6 of all United States personnel stationed in the 7 European theater of operations during World War II. 8 In developing the designs, the Mint 9 worked with three liaisons -- the primary liaison, 10 Edna Cummings, Six Triple Eight advocate and producer 11 of the Six Triple Eight documentary; Carlton Philpot, 12 chairman and project director of the Six Triple Eight 13 monument projects; and Tracy Bradford, curator at the 14 US Army Women's Museum. 15 And we have all three of them available 16 to us today. 17 speaking? And then would you like to begin by 18 MS. CUMMINGS: Sure. 19 MS. SULLIVAN: Thank you. 20 MS. CUMMINGS: Hello. Thank you so, so 21 very much to the committee. And I appreciate the 22 opportunity to discuss the Six Triple Eight portfolio. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 200 1 This is probably one of the highlights 2 of my life. 3 retired Army so this is very, very close to my heart 4 as it is with Tracy and Carlton. 5 You know, I'm an Army brat and I'm also The Six Triple Eight was a unique World 6 War II Women's Army Corps unit who solved the 7 military's mail and morale problem. 8 9 I know we have at least one veteran in here who happens to be army. But if you're in the 10 military, regardless of where you are in theater, the 11 Army is in charge of your mail -- or the executive 12 agent. 13 So as with many segregated African 14 American World War II units, the unit consisted of 15 predominately African American women. 16 But it contained soldiers from diverse 17 ethnic and cultural backgrounds. 18 woman was from Puerto Rico because of her skin tone. 19 We know at least one When she came to the US the Black women 20 went to one side who were dark-skinned because it was 21 summertime and the light-skinned women went to the 22 other side. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 201 1 Wintertime, she went overseas, she was 2 -- her tan had faded. 3 the White unit. 4 So she was able to go work with So it just depended. So either by birth, choice, or the one- 5 drop rule this diverse ethnic and cultured group of 6 women served with the Six Triple Eight. 7 And something interesting about the Six 8 Triple Eight is that all the women had to have high 9 school diplomas. 10 Now in World War II post-Depression the 11 literacy level of the United States was very, very low 12 -- less than 50 percent high school diplomas. 13 About 85 percent of the Six Triple 14 Eight either had college degrees or they were -- all 15 of them were high school graduates -- women between 16 the ages of 21 and 50. 17 again coming from most of the states that represented 18 the diversity. 19 And some got waivers. So And moreover the Six Triple Eight is 20 now the only military women's unit to receive the 21 nation's highest honor -- the Congressional Gold 22 Medal. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 202 1 You have the women's air service pilots 2 -- was not a military unit. 3 veteran status until 1977. 4 unit receiving benefits once they left active duty, 5 the Six Triple Eight was that unit. 6 They did not receive So in terms of a military A year ago we started this process with 7 Megan. 8 with some suggestions for inscriptions and designs. 9 And then we refined those to give some of those must- 10 11 So thank you so very much. And we came up haves. As I listened to the discussion about 12 the Harriet Tubman coin, it is important that this 13 coin represents history. 14 deeper and when they see the images on this coin and 15 inscriptions it makes them curious. 16 We want the public to dig So based on our review of the 17 portfolio, we had some collective concerns about some 18 representations. 19 the presentation before. 20 Again I'm just so excited. I heard Because some of the ethnic 21 representations for African American Women is so 22 important as the only military women's unit that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 203 1 happened to be African American. 2 But we still have a story to tell. 3 this story of the Six Triple Eight has inspired so 4 much far beyond the Congressional Gold Medal. 5 a documentary. 6 musical. 7 We have a monument at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas and just articles and articles. 9 genuine public interest. 11 We have There's a movie in the works, a 8 10 And So there is So we have an opportunity here to tell their story on a coin. So we have the designs in this 12 portfolio that I believe represent our ten areas of 13 agreement with refinement of course. 14 want the final coin to represent the history of the 15 Six Triple Eight and a curiosity as a learning tool. 16 Megan, you talked about the three women 17 who were buried at Normandy. 18 Normandy, there are only four women. 19 from the Six Triple Eight. 20 Arlington National Cemetery. 21 22 And we again Of the 9,000 graves at And three are There are 14 buried at And there are Six Triple Eight women buried in our national cemetery. So that's an image www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 204 1 that we would like incorporated on the coin. 2 there now. 3 refinements. 4 It's not But that's just an example of some of the Charity Adams was a battalion 5 commander. 6 leader. 7 of the Six Triple Eight and their leader has also 8 generated a lot of public interest. 9 This is a unit award. But a unit has a So collectively the image and representation As part of DOD's base renaming efforts, 10 Fort Lee will now be named Fort Gregg-Adams after 11 Charity Adams, the Six Triple Eight commander, and 12 Lieutenant General Gregg. 13 what this coin represents. 14 That's just an example of And by the way, she was only 26 years 15 old. 16 855 people normally in today's time is a lieutenant 17 colonel, maybe in the 40s, mid-40s. 18 To our veteran here, a battalion commander of This 26-year-old woman led 855 women 19 overseas to clear a problem that was impacting the 20 war. 21 this was in February when these women went over to 22 solve a problem that was impacting the morale. The war wasn't over until September of '45. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 205 1 So as the primary liaison I reviewed 2 the portfolio and agreed that the current portfolio, 3 specifically Obverse and Reverse 3, tells that story 4 with refinements of course. 5 And it serves as a historical 6 commemorative coin that I believe the nation will 7 appreciate to see. 8 9 So subject to your questions, are there -- I don't know if I'm supposed to -- but consistent, 10 you know, with the portfolio I think again Obverse and 11 Reverse 3 with refinements -- that's what the majority 12 of our team members support. 13 And thank you for your time and energy 14 to tell this amazing story. So with that I will turn 15 it over to Carlton, Carlton Philpot, another liaison 16 member. 17 the airport going to Greece -- And Tracy may have some comments. 18 DR. BROWN: 19 MS. CUMMINGS: 20 21 22 have any comments? She's at We'll get Tracy -Yeah. Tracy, do you Maybe she got on the plane. MS. SULLIVAN: Okay. She indicated to me she wasn't necessarily planning to speak -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 206 1 MS. CUMMINGS: Okay. 2 MS. SULLIVAN: -- because she is in the 3 airport. But appreciated. 4 5 MS. CUMMINGS: All right. Thank you for your time. 6 DR. BROWN: 7 MS. CUMMINGS: 8 MR. PHILPOT: 9 DR. BROWN: 10 Thank you, Edna. Sure. Good morning, Dr. Brown. Good morning. MR. PHILPOT: Committee members here 11 and committee members virtually, the Mint staff, 12 special tribute to Tracy -- I mean -- 13 MS. SULLIVAN: 14 MR. PHILPOT: 15 MS. SULLIVAN: 16 MR. PHILPOT: Megan. -- Ms. Sullivan. There you go. And my three liaison 17 members. 18 promptly replied to my many questions and those types 19 of things. 20 She answered a lot of questions. She always And being the only gentleman involved 21 in this I was often as at home with three -- a wife 22 and two daughters -- it is a tremendous pleasure and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 207 1 an immense responsibility. 2 But what I'm getting ready to say and 3 the decisions that we make today is going to impact 4 for generations and generations to come. 5 And hopefully this coin -- and I was 6 impressed as I listened to your process and 7 deliberation for the Harriet Tubman coin and the 8 various options. 9 And so today I'm going to focus on some 10 areas that I disagree with what has been presented 11 today and the recommendations. 12 recommendations are this. 13 the Mint. 14 on. 15 And the basis for my And it's on the website of I don't know why I didn't put my glasses Congress had an intent when they 16 invented the -- approved the Congressional Gold Medal. 17 And that was to honor those individually and as a 18 group who had performed an achievement that has an 19 impact on American history and culture that is likely 20 to have latched long in the recipient's field as long 21 as the achievement has been done. 22 So my comments are based on that. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 208 1 I'm going to highlight in mine issues -- highlight 2 issues with the current illustration that are not 3 uniquely applicable to the 6888th, suggest 4 inscriptions and images that are uniquely applicable 5 to the 6888 because it was awarded to the 6888th and 6 not to recognize newspapers and their contributions. 7 I'd like to offer to collaborate with 8 the Mint staff, this committee's commission, and 9 anyone with the expertise that I have as we move 10 forward. It's important to move forward. 11 I know there's concern about the ages. 12 When we started this project in 2014 we located 15 13 6888th veterans. 14 100 to 103. 15 Left now are six ranging in age from And the most mentally agile is the one 16 that's 103. She is an accomplished artist. And she 17 was one of the drivers assigned to Charity Adams. 18 I want to -- we all have the same goal 19 -- to ensure that the 6888th receives a Congressional 20 Gold Medal worthy of their services and sacrifice. 21 They served this country before the 22 country served them with images and inscriptions www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 209 1 uniquely applicable to the 6888th and to meet 2 Congress's intent. 3 Now let's take the inscriptions. We 4 started out with 14. 5 adjustments. 6 these illustrations are they do not reflect an 7 achievement that has an impact on American history and 8 culture. 9 They made modifications and And we're down to nine. Germane to all Generic images and inscriptions are not 10 uniquely applicable to the 6888th. 11 words "6888th" off those coins does it -- does the 12 images tell you that this is the 6888th? 13 them one-by-one if you may. 14 15 MS. HANCHOCK: MR. PHILPOT: 17 MS. HANCHOCK: STE-001. Excuse me, sir. We're I'm sorry. We haven't presented the portfolio yet. 19 MR. PHILPOT: 20 MS. HANCHOCK: 21 MR. PHILPOT: 22 Let's take not there yet. 16 18 If you take the Okay. That's at the -The images that I do not think are applicable and unique to the 6888th -- I can www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 210 1 discuss those individually when you get to them. 2 And my background is this. For 30 3 years or more I have spearheaded eight monuments 4 honoring the 6888th, the Buffalo Soldiers, Colin 5 Powell. 6 I have worked with the artists who do 7 the Buffalo Soldiers stamp. I worked with Felix de 8 Weldon, who did the Iwo Jima monument on designing the 9 Buffalo Solider monument. That's what I've done. And 10 I've created several commemorative coins out of 11 bronze, 99.99 silver, and 24-karat gold honoring the 12 Buffalo Soldiers. 13 Now really the most important thing is 14 I'm willing and committed to working with this 15 committee, this commission, and anyone who wants to 16 move forward with this. 17 And all of the women -- I know there 18 may be a delay. 19 they want everything done right. 20 of time necessary to make it applicable to the 6888th. 21 22 But everyone that I've talked to -They want the amount And concerning Charity Adams' image, she is a leader. I commissioned a $50,000 sculpture www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 211 1 to her. And it's placed on top of the monument. 2 all that I've talked to feel that no one person should 3 be reflected as the 6888th. 4 But And I think that's a technicality of 5 legislation I was just told -- and was passed -- that 6 it must be dedicated to the group. 7 technicality that Charity Adams' name was mentioned in 8 the brief. 9 10 There's a Thank you for your time. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Donald, did you have a question? 11 MR. SCARINCI: Before he sits down -- 12 I'm sorry. 13 that you would like more time on the design and you 14 would like us to reject all the designs and go back to 15 the board? 16 So you are asking us -- you are suggesting Is that what you're asking? MR. PHILPOT: To be candidly, I'm 17 saying that I would like to work with someone. I have 18 ideas. 19 we've talked to Felix de Weldon, the master sculpture. 20 Now that limited-edition prints that we But all the other projects that we've had 21 did -- the experts, which you all are, we gave our 22 ideas. You came forward. They came forward with www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 212 1 better ideas than we have. 2 My recommendation out there -- yes, 3 sir. To answer your question, yes, sir. 4 to -- I think I want to move forward with what we 5 have. 6 But I want And if we can find working with Megan's 7 team, Ms. Sullivan's team, and your input -- I would 8 like to see if we can just move forward and move -- 9 take what we have now someplace and move forward. 10 I don't know that answer. 11 MR. SCARINCI: Are there any images in 12 this packet that you would -- you and the people you 13 talked to -- 14 MR. PHILPOT: Looking at the artwork -- 15 that was a good question. 16 look at STE-001 and STE-002, which is not applicable 17 to the -- with the 6888th. 18 Looking at the artwork, I ST-03, STER-03 -- that I could work 19 with the artist. But with the input that we have -- 20 as long as it's historically accurate and it's 21 applicable -- uniquely applicable to the 6888th as set 22 forth on the website of the USS Mint and it's long- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 213 1 2 lasting. What I see so far are general postal 3 duties that if you took 6888th off could you tell it's 4 the 6888th unit? 5 you have to answer that question. 6 That's the question I ask. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. I think You've 7 given us a large amount of information to consider. 8 May I suggest the following? 9 there are some aspects of the design that you've seen It seems to me that 10 that you can embrace. And there are some aspects for 11 which you might have different suggestions. 12 fair representation? 13 MR. PHILPOT: 14 DR. BROWN: Is that a Yes, sir. So that being the case, if 15 you would be receptive to allow us to continue with 16 the process and then define those designs that we 17 think have artistic and historical benefit and get 18 your feedback at that point, especially since we do 19 have -- and we've got the benefit of another liaison 20 and the primary liaison -- 21 MR. PHILPOT: 22 DR. BROWN: Right. -- with respect to this www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 214 1 design. 2 MR. PHILPOT: 3 DR. BROWN: 4 5 that? Yes. And I think -- Would you be able to do Would that be -MR. PHILPOT: Yes, sir. With the 6 artists and with the expert I've heard here today I 7 think we can come to a conclusion that the 6888th 8 women, their family members, the six living women now, 9 will be appreciative of. 10 And it tells a story. let the coin tell the story. 11 DR. BROWN: 12 MR. PHILPOT: 13 DR. BROWN: And Yes, sir. Appreciate that. Yes, sir. So with that, I suggest 14 that we have Megan go through the design candidates 15 that we currently have and see from the perspective of 16 the CCAC those which we embrace and get the feedback 17 from our liaison, particular our primary liaison, as 18 we decide to go forward or not to go forward. 19 MR. SCARINCI: Mr. Chairman, in the 20 presentation, Megan, could you -- you know, maybe I 21 don't understand the two liaisons. 22 us a little bit about the two liaisons in your And could you tell www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 215 1 presentation about the recommended designs? 2 MS. SULLIVAN: I can tell you flat out 3 two of the liaisons -- both Ms. Cummings and then 4 Tracy, who you did not hear from -- agree on one 5 particular recommendation. 6 made no recommendation. Mr. Philpot has had -- 7 MR. SCARINCI: Okay. 8 MS. SULLIVAN: So -- 9 MR. SCARINCI: Thank you. 10 MS. SULLIVAN: I'll highlight that one MS. HANCHOCK: And who's the primary 11 too. 12 13 14 15 liaison again? Just to remind the -MS. SULLIVAN: primary liaison. Colonel Cummings is the Oh, she's over here now. 16 MS. CUMMINGS: Thank you. 17 MS. SULLIVAN: You just moved on me. 18 MS. WARREN: This is Jennifer. Just so 19 you know, the designation is made by the sponsors of 20 the law, not by us. 21 they give primary. 22 We are given all the names. Just giving it for the record. DR. BROWN: Yes. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 216 1 MS. SULLIVAN: 2 DR. BROWN: Okay. And I think that's useful 3 to put on the public record so the public can see 4 that. 5 that with us. 6 So thank you so much, Jennifer, for sharing MS. SULLIVAN: Okay. So we'll move 7 through to the designs. 8 Charity Adams holding boxes under one arm while 9 flipping through papers in her other hand. 10 Obverse Design 1 features Two members of the Six Triple Eight 11 work to sort mail behind her. 12 the three members lost in France. 13 Three stars represent Design 2 depicts a member of the Six 14 Triple Eight with a letter in her hand standing next 15 to a large sack of letters and packages. 16 Behind her is a four-by-four Dodge 17 Weapons Carrier, representing the three members who 18 were killed in a vehicle crash. 19 features a map of Europe. 20 Triple Eight Central Postal Directory Battalion. 21 22 The background And the inscription is Six Design 3, Obverse Design 3, depicts Major Charity Adams next to a row of members from the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 217 1 Six Triple Eight. 2 envelope inscribed with "Women's Army Corps", 3 "2/12/1945-3/21946", and "Act of Congress 2022". 4 The additional inscription is Six 5 Triple Eight Central Postal Directory Battalion. 6 going to stumble over that every time. 7 apologize. 8 9 A partial exergue is created by an I'm And I This design is the preferred design of two of the three liaisons. If selected it will 10 require minor edits to correct uniform elements and 11 facial features. 12 Obverse Design 6 depicts Major Charity 13 Adams on an imagined stamp with cancellation lines 14 surrounding the dates February 12, 1945, and March 2, 15 1946. 16 The additional inscriptions are the Six 17 Triple Eight, US Army Postal Service, Major Charity 18 Adams, APO, England, and France. 19 And Obverse Design 7 depicts a member 20 of the Six Triple Eight holding a piece of mail being 21 redirected to a solider. 22 are "The Six Triple Eight", "2.12.45-3.2.46", and "No The additional inscriptions www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 218 1 mail - low morale". 2 Moving on to the reverse designs. 3 Reverse Design No. 1 featured -- features a pile of 4 mixed mail sacks, wrapped boxes, and stacks of 5 envelopes with an orderly motif of envelopes and 6 parcels along the right side. 7 "No mail, low morale", "Act of Congress 2022", and 8 "2.12.45-3.2.46". 9 The inscriptions are, Reverse No. 2 depicts a fusion of the 10 European Theater of Operations patch combined with the 11 double Vs, representing victory at home and victory 12 abroad. 13 2022" are additional inscriptions in the design. 14 These phrases as well as "Act of Congress Reverse Design 3 depicts a member of 15 the Six Triple Eight filing mail to be sent out to 16 American soldiers. 17 battalion are sorting and addressing mail to the 18 troops. 19 Behind her, members of her They work in a warehouse filled to the 20 ceiling with unsorted mail. The additional 21 inscriptions are England, France, and "No mail, low 22 morale". www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 219 1 This is the preferred design of two of 2 the three liaisons. 3 edits. 4 If selected it will require minor And Reverse Design No. 7 depicts a 5 close-up of a member of the Six Triple Eight sorting 6 mail. 7 Postal Directory Battalion, England, and France. 8 that concludes the presentation. The inscriptions are Six Triple Eight Central 9 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. And To the 10 committee, are there any technical or legal question 11 from the committee about this program? 12 off with Art. 13 MR. BERNSTEIN: We'll start This is Art Bernstein. 14 Megan, you mentioned maybe some edits. 15 the pins on Major Adams' lapel -- is that just -- I 16 couldn't figure out what that was. 17 Is that something that's going to be 18 corrected or what? 19 be on both sides? 20 21 22 On Obverse 3 What are those pins that seem to MS. SULLIVAN: Colonel Cummings, would you like to answer that? MS. CUMMINGS: Yes. The intent is to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 220 1 show Pallas Athena. 2 war and represented the Women's Army Corps. 3 Pallas Athena was the goddess of So that design on her lapel is designed 4 to show -- and that's the correct way the uniform was 5 worn. 6 Athena, Women's Army Corps. That's the correct placement. 7 So that's Pallas As a point of full disclosure, the 8 Women's Army Corps was disbanded in 1978. 9 member for a while. 10 And I was a So that uniform needs a little work. 11 But so I am kind of sort of authority on that. 12 the Women's Army Corps -- yeah; that's Pallas Athena. 13 MR. BERNSTEIN: 14 MS. CUMMINGS: But Thank you. And it'll be amplified 15 to show that, which was really important to the 16 Women's Army Corps. 17 MR. BERNSTEIN: 18 DR. BROWN: 19 MR. SCARINCI: Can I ask you a question 21 MS. CUMMINGS: Yes, sir. 22 MR. SCARINCI: -- the -- along the same 20 Thank you. Donald? about -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 221 1 lines of the changes. So this is clearly -- the 2 prominent facing figure clearly is Charity Adams; is 3 that correct? 4 MS. CUMMINGS: That's correct. 5 MR. SCARINCI: And the other people in 6 this medal -- do they depict any -- 7 MS. CUMMINGS: No; they do not. 8 MR. SCARINCI: They're just generic? 9 MS. CUMMINGS: Generic, yes. So and 10 keeping with the spirit of the unit, as I said every 11 unit has a leader, and so she was the leader. 12 rank and placement of the rank and insignia of the 13 uniform indicates that. And her 14 Which it's unique just to have African 15 American women in the Women's Army Corps in nineteen, 16 you know, forty-five. 17 African American women. 18 There were only, like, 6,000 So the Six Triple Eight represent 13 19 percent of that 6,000 or so African American women on 20 active duty during World War II. 21 MR. SCARINCI: 22 consensus in the two groups? And how strong was the Was there a lot of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 222 1 discussion about this -- recommending this design or 2 is this -- 3 MS. CUMMINGS: Well -- 4 MR. SCARINCI: -- was it mostly MS. CUMMINGS: Well, for the three of 5 unanimous? 6 7 us. 8 representation in terms of the design elements that 9 all of us agreed on -- there were about ten that we 10 And two of us agreed because of the sent -- our areas of agreement. 11 This image has most of those. It 12 represents African American women, Women's Army Corps, 13 Act of Congress, Pallas Athena. 14 The patch is the communication zone, 15 which is although not unique to the Six Triple Eight, 16 Lee Marvin and I think and the Dirty Dozen had that on 17 his patch. 18 Theater of Operations patch. 19 That was the Comm Z -- the European But what's unique -- it's on the 20 shoulder of these African American women. 21 were the only ones who served overseas during World 22 War II. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And they Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 223 1 So the consensus -- two of us agreed 2 that this, you know, with refinements would be the 3 representation. 4 As an example, Charity Adams is 26 5 years old. 6 even though the age range was about 18 to 50 in the 7 Women's Army Corps. 8 refinements with the rank placement and her facial 9 features. 10 That is not the image of a young woman, So just, you know, little Yeah; thought that represented -- 11 that's sort of a historic photo because when the women 12 arrived in Europe they had to march. 13 housed at the King Edward School in Birmingham, 14 England. 15 And they were So there was this inspection photo. And it's an iconic inspection photo for 16 where the women are lined up and she's inspecting 17 them, getting ready to, you know, have a passing 18 review for Lieutenant General John Lee, the 19 communication zone commander. 20 So this captures some of that history 21 in a subtle way but yet and still shows her -- says, 22 "Hey, you know, we are representing more than just www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 224 1 these 855 women." 2 MR. SCARINCI: Thank you. 3 MS. CUMMINGS: Sure. 4 DR. BROWN: 5 MS. BRADFORD: 6 This is Tracy Bradford. 7 Edna said? Other questions? Hi. This is Tracy. Could I add something to what 8 DR. BROWN: Please proceed. 9 MS. BRADFORD: Yes. In Charity Adams' 10 book she also makes reference to how proud she was of 11 how her women marched. 12 mentioned is really symbolic. 13 of that. And so that photo that Edna And she was very proud 14 DR. BROWN: 15 MS. BRADFORD: 16 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 17 MR. HOARD: I have one quick question 18 if I could. Sorry. Thank you. Thank you. I don't mean to -- 19 MS. CUMMINGS: 20 MR. HOARD: Oh, no. Sure. -- keep you up. In terms 21 of Design 1, Obverse Design 1, I was wondering on that 22 design whether you feel -- what you feel is lacking www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 225 1 from that in relative to -- 2 MS. CUMMINGS: Well, first of all, the 3 three stars do not capture the women at Normandy 4 because we prefer three crosses. 5 carry packages. 6 And officers don't I mean, she was a battalion commander. 7 I look at that -- and no disrespect to the artist. 8 But it reminds me of someone in a department store. 9 And you know, that's just not a 10 professional representation of what a battalion 11 commander would do in a wartime environment. 12 supervises. 13 She She directs. She has more packages in her hand than 14 the women behind, even though there is one lifting. 15 But that's just -- it just doesn't fully capture the 16 Six Triple Eight's spirit of leadership and their -- 17 the magnitude of their accomplishments while in the 18 European Theater. 19 MR. HOARD: 20 MS. CUMMINGS: 21 DR. BROWN: 22 from the committee? Thank you. Sure. Other questions or comments I just have a few. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 226 1 MS. CUMMINGS: 2 DR. BROWN: Yes, sir. Just a few. In the design 3 that was preferred -- if we could go back to that one 4 -- can you share with us -- the ribbon above her 5 pocket. What was that to symbolize? 6 MS. CUMMINGS: The ribbon above her 7 pocket. The artist put that in because they received 8 a meritorious unit commendation. 9 one of her ribbons. 10 That may have been Because Charity Adams was in the first 11 class of the Women's Army Corps in 1942 -- the Women's 12 Army Auxiliary Corps. 13 Triple Eight she had other assignments. 14 And before she joined the Six So that ribbon could be symbolic of her 15 duties before the Six Triple Eight that made her 16 qualified to lead this unit overseas. 17 generic ribbon. 18 the artist's interpretation. 19 And I presume that that was part of What I need to check on is the actual 20 placement because it seems kind of off. 21 only one it should be in the middle. 22 So it's a But that's a minor edit. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 If there's But it's to Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 227 1 capture her experience prior to joining the Six Triple 2 Eight. 3 DR. BROWN: I ask that -- as we have 4 discussed, I'm a veteran. I didn't get too many of 5 those ribbons. 6 MS. CUMMINGS: 7 DR. BROWN: That's right. But I got a few. So I'm a 8 little understanding about that. I'm sort of curious 9 about the uniform because in the military there's the 10 dress uniform and then there's the uniform that you 11 work in. 12 And having worked also part-time in a 13 postal office, I was really wanting to see that 14 depiction, which was in fact a reflection of what the 15 post office outside of the military looked like in the 16 60s and 70s of the boxes that were mailed that you had 17 to sort. 18 That's not the same as a post office today. But I was sort of curious about the 19 uniforms. Is that a fair reflection of what they 20 would be working -- wearing when they're actually 21 doing the mail sort versus what they would be wearing 22 when they're actually doing marching in front of a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 228 1 commanding officer? 2 MS. CUMMINGS: This is a marching or 3 command review or inspection uniform. 4 shows the work uniform. 5 This is the inspection. 6 The reverse So again we get both sides. As Tracy mentioned, she's showing, you 7 know, I'm proud of these women. 8 what's called Class A or the suit -- the jacket, 9 probably a skirt. 10 And they are in their And we attempted to -- and it's kind of 11 hard to show the insignia. 12 the US Army and the Pallas Athena. 13 You have to have the circles, the insignia, on the 14 uniform. But that would be the Class A or the dress 15 uniform. And reverse would be the work uniform. 16 DR. BROWN: But just some disc to show Thank you. 17 question from the committee? 18 begin our consideration. 19 20 MR. MENNA: But just symbolic. Any other Hearing none, let us If I could just come up for just a couple -- 21 DR. BROWN: Please. 22 MR. MENNA: Just to maybe help allay www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 229 1 concerns or address concerns in advance of discussion, 2 historically Congressional Gold Medals or any coin it 3 is not separating text and the art would necessary 4 make anything anonymous. 5 We have Greg LeMond without the -- his 6 name on the coin with him riding a bike it could be 7 anyone riding a bike. 8 the artwork historically in Congressional Gold Medals. 9 So text is an integral part of Also when you have groups of people 10 represented -- in the Rosie's there was not an 11 individual in particular so they were represented 12 anonymously. 13 But other instances where military -- 14 not necessarily battalions but military groups or 15 people of great achievement as a team have been 16 represented it is not unusual historically -- in the 17 history of Congressional Gold Medals it is 18 symbolically not unusual to have a single individual 19 be emblematic of that effort. 20 clarification of the history of the medal. 21 22 DR. BROWN: So just for Thank you so much. just remind the liaisons that after we hear the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Let me Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 230 1 considerations by each of the committee members we 2 will be coming back to you to again receive any 3 comments that you have based on you -- what you've 4 heard from the discussion. 5 So then let us begin, committee 6 members, our consideration. 7 the committee members to please, sir, and ma'am, to 8 try to keep your comments to three minutes or less. 9 I would like to remind Additionally that you will be given an 10 opportunity to ask further questions at the end of 11 this discussion period. 12 Dean. 13 So let's begin then with DR. KOTLOWSKI: Thank you, Mr. 14 Chairman. 15 the liaisons, for the information that you've 16 provided. 17 completes the story of the four women buried in 18 Normandy. 19 This is Dean Kotlowski. Thank you, all of And in particular, Ms. Cummings, it I knew about the fourth, which was Liz 20 Richardson, the Clubmobile Red Cross worker. There's 21 a book written about her by a person who I'm very 22 close to. So thank you for completing the story. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 231 1 This is wonderful history. And as you 2 said very elegantly and eloquently, the point of the 3 Congressional Gold Medal is the door to people 4 learning. 5 be emphasized. It's not the final word. 6 And that has to Even if I'm going over my three minutes 7 I want to make this point because it's really, really 8 important. 9 quick here because I go with what the liaisons say 10 And then I'm going to be really, really here. 11 I think you've done your homework in 12 terms of obverse -- it's even easy here. 13 and Reverse 3. 14 6 was really innovative. 15 innovation and not saying anything about that. 16 Obverse 3 As a stamp collector I thought Obverse But I'm dropping the I think 3 -- Obverse 3 and Reverse 3 -- 17 look, a discussion about if it didn't have -- I heard 18 something about 6888th, if that wasn't there you 19 wouldn't know. 20 It's going to be there. So I mean, it's -- I think with Obverse 21 3 you've go the individual. 22 -- the individual. You stressed that earlier But you've got the collective. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 232 1 You've got the leader. 2 but the group. 3 And maybe not the followers And so they're there in this line. It's very attractive. 4 compelling. 5 that that's very good. 6 use the word "very". And it's very And it's very military-like. 7 And I think And I tell my students not to And here I'm using it. But on Reverse 3 you see actually what 8 they're doing. And I just think that it works. 9 fits together. Thank you. 10 11 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. It And to Harcourt. 12 DR. FULLER: Thank you. This is 13 Harcourt Fuller. 14 opportunity to review this portfolio. 15 both of you my job is easier because I will go with 16 the recommendations of the liaisons. 17 Again it's a pleasure to have the And thanks to I know that there are some differences 18 in opinion about whether or not to depict one 19 individual or the collective. 20 that. 21 then on the reverse I will go with 3 as well. 22 So I'd like to speak on But before that, yes; I'll go with 03. But let me say this. And I think everyone www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 233 1 wins here. I think, to use a sports analogy, there's 2 insider baseball. 3 sense. 4 There's outsider baseball in a If you don't -- if someone from the 5 outside picks up this coin, right, they don't 6 necessarily know, you know, that this -- the main 7 person depicted here is Charity Adams even though she 8 is named. 9 here because it's both general and specific. So that's why I'm saying that everyone wins 10 So I think you get the named person, 11 Charity Adams. 12 comments it's also general because those who are not 13 familiar with the story -- they're not immediately 14 going to say, "That's Charity Adams." 15 And from what I gathered from your So what I'm saying is that I think it's 16 a win-win situation for these coins. 17 main things that you're wishing for, even though I 18 understand that at the end of the day all three of you 19 want this medal to be issued to commemorate these 20 brave Americans. 21 sense. 22 You both get the So I hope that -- I hope I made But -DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Quite Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 234 1 2 thoughtful as usual. Donald? MR. SCARINCI: So you know, just and 3 for the benefit of the new members, you know, I always 4 -- I think part of the interesting thing -- this is a 5 Congressional Gold Medal. 6 Part of the interesting thing about 7 Congressional Gold Medals is when the constituent of 8 -- when the recipient in this case expresses a 9 preference on design. 10 You know, I think that makes this -- I 11 think that makes the series for those who are still -- 12 at $160 per bronze medal collecting Congressional 13 Bronze Medals -- you know, to the public, you know, 14 but, you know, it does make an interesting series and 15 an interesting, you know, look into America and 16 American history. 17 So I think, you know, I also, you know, 18 I always work the -- on Congressional Gold Medals as 19 opposed to other things I always support the -- either 20 the recipients' recommendations. 21 22 And in this case, you know, I think we, having listened to the, you know, to the other www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 235 1 recipient group, you know, I think we can achieve what 2 he's looking for here. 3 So you know, so I'll support -- I do 4 just want to make a comment. So I will support 3 and 5 3. 6 the -- on Design 6, which I think is, you know, a very 7 interesting design. You know, but I do want to make a comment on 8 And a topic that will come up in some 9 of our administrative meetings in the future about 10 making contact with the US Postal Service Board of 11 Governors to consider doing a joint numismatic postal 12 product, which I think would, you know, particularly 13 be effective in the sesquicentennial as we discuss 14 that at some future time. 15 So I do like Design 6, Dean. You know, 16 I think the stamp -- the concept of a stamp on metal 17 is a very interesting concept. 18 since this is a Congressional Gold Medal we support 19 the recipients. 20 DR. BROWN: But for simplicity and Thank you. 21 to consider. Appreciate that. 22 three minutes, pretty please. Another thought Gentlemen and ladies, Moving on to Dennis. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 236 1 MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 2 thank you to our liaisons for your input. 3 heard this discussion, I am comfortable supporting 4 Obverse 3 and Reverse 3. And Having Thank you, Mr. Chair. 5 DR. BROWN: Thank you. 6 DR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Mr. 7 Chairman. 8 Obverse 3, Reverse 3, although I don't really find 9 them as attractive designs, frankly, as Obverse 1 and 10 Peter van Alfen. Peter? I also would support Reverse 1. 11 In fact I was a little disappointed to 12 hear from Colonel Cummings that depiction of Major 13 Adams carrying packages would not reflect well on her 14 leadership. 15 Because, forgive me, I do find the 16 pairing of 1 -- Obverse 1 and Reverse 1 to be quite 17 nice, particularly with the elements and the vertical 18 and horizontal elements and with her. 19 support the preferences of -- 20 DR. BROWN: 21 MR. SAUNDERS: 22 But again I'll John? I too when I first looked at the art that's on it I liked Obverse 1. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 But Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 237 1 in view of the comments that were made I'm in favor of 2 Obverse 3. 3 so this was an easy one. And I liked Reverse 3 from the beginning, 4 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 5 MR. BERNSTEIN: Art? This is Art Bernstein. 6 I embrace everything that's been said about Obverse 3 7 and Reverse 3. 8 Obverse 6. I also support the attraction of But that's for another day. Thank you. 9 DR. BROWN: Thank you. Mike Moran? 10 MR. MORAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. This 11 is Mike Moran. 12 fatigue over figures in a line. 13 in the last year with Rosie the Riveter and with the 14 Harlem Hellfighters. 15 I personally am suffering from some We've done it twice However I overcame that listening to 16 the liaison because it is a good design. And I will 17 be supporting No. 3 on the obverse and 3 on the 18 reverse. Thank you. 19 DR. BROWN: 20 MS. JACKSON: Very good. Darla? This is Darla Jackson. 21 Thank you to everyone for such amazing information. 22 am just going to say I do support Obverse 3 and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 238 1 Reverse 3. 2 However I do want to just make a note 3 about Obverse 1 because I do feel like as opposed to 4 Obverse 3 it speaks to them as a unit in action. 5 And it shows the important aspect of 6 small acts and how large of an impact they can have 7 over a longer period of time. 8 about the packages, which was what pushed me further 9 toward Obverse 3 so -- However the comment 10 DR. BROWN: Thank you. Kellen? 11 MR. HOARD: Darla and I are exactly in 12 line -- like, exactly. 13 and Reverse 3. 14 one is visually compelling and attractive. 15 liaison comments said otherwise so I go with them. 16 So yeah; I support Obverse 3 But I do think -- I think the first DR. BROWN: But the Thank you so much. The 17 stamp on the chair -- I want to disclose the fact that 18 one of -- there are a couple of reasons why I align 19 with this program as well as the preferences by the 20 liaisons. 21 22 One, I worked at the post office so I know how that works. And number two, as someone who's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 239 1 been in the military -- mail is so crucial. 2 So what this unit did was no question 3 of service to this country and helped, in my humble 4 opinion, to win the war -- particularly with morale. 5 And the third item is I come to find 6 out a connection between Major Adams and Harlem 7 Hospital. 8 internal medicine. I was trained at Harlem Hospital in 9 And her husband that she married 10 actually -- Stanley Armstead Earley -- was also 11 trained at Harlem Hospital. 12 degree after having served in the military. 13 And he got his medical At that time there were barriers to him 14 being in medical school and being out of States. 15 he was trained in Switzerland. 16 So I found this phenomenal. So But 17 somehow or another as we tell this story that we also 18 tell these related components to let people know that 19 she as a leader -- she chose him who then became a 20 physician to serve the country in a different way. 21 please forgive me. 22 Again I just -- MS. CUMMINGS: And she outranked him www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 240 1 while they were on active duty. 2 DR. BROWN: 3 outranked him. 4 lieutenant colonel. 5 partners. That is true. That is true. She He later became a Then in fact they were clearly Very good. 6 Let me ask are there any -- let's hear 7 from our liaisons if you have any additional comments 8 that you'd like us to consider before we begin our 9 scoring. 10 MS. CUMMINGS: I'll just say thank you 11 so very much. We appreciate your time. And as I 12 said, with refinements I think this will be a best- 13 seller. We're counting on it. 14 And with Stanley Earley -- this 15 fascinating story -- in terms of a backstory, his 16 children -- they feel like they're imposters. 17 The one we're talking about -- Stanley, 18 Jr. -- he says, "I don't know that woman you all are 19 talking about. 20 was limited in medical schools. 21 22 I only know Mom" because Dr. Earley She got out of the Army, followed him to Zurich. And he was a linguist and interrogated www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 241 1 POWs while he was on active duty. 2 married. 3 board of the Red Cross. And they got And in terms of the Red Cross she was on the 4 They came back to the US, settled in 5 Dayton, Ohio. 6 So I'll share that comment now with them. 7 you for that. 8 9 So I'm very close to the Earley family. DR. BROWN: So thank Dennis, any further comment, question? 10 MR. PHILPOT: 11 DR. BROWN: 12 MR. PHILPOT: 13 DR. BROWN: 14 MR. PHILPOT: Can I say something? I'm sorry. I'd just like -One second, Dennis. -- to reiterate that I'm 15 willing to work with other designs as long as we 16 can -- if we can choose -- I have some suggestions 17 about wording and inscription. 18 As you indicated in the Harriet Tubman 19 discussion, inscriptions and historical accuracy if 20 possible. 21 22 If we can tell the story with the images I'm willing to work and move forward with it. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 242 1 And that's still STO-3 -- you know, either one I have 2 some suggestions if that's okay. 3 4 DR. BROWN: May I suggest that you consider working with the Mint staff -- 5 MR. PHILPOT: 6 DR. BROWN: Yes. -- to actually when it goes 7 to the Secretary to provide that additional 8 information as they seem to think that it provides 9 additional value? 10 11 I think that makes sense. And your points are well-appreciated. We understand that of the designs that 12 are presented to the CCAC as much as we try to make 13 sure we touch every base that there's always going to 14 be something that we miss, something that we wish that 15 we could have had. 16 But we realize that we're looking at 17 this, as Harcourt said, to be a win-win. 18 extent to which we can still achieve that even though 19 we have some things on the edges that we could improve 20 upon we certainly would like to do so. 21 22 Your points are well-taken. So the And we'll make sure that at least in the letter to the Secretary www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 243 1 we recognize that there was in fact a robust 2 discussion with respect to these designs. 3 so much. Thank you 4 MS. WARREN: Dennis has his hand up. 5 DR. BROWN: 6 MS. WARREN: You're muted, Dennis. 7 MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Dr. Brown. Dennis? And 8 thank you again to our liaisons. 9 time, I don't think I've heard any objections from the 10 In the interest of committee on recommendation Obverse 3 and Reverse 3. 11 I would recommend that we skip the 12 voting, send our votes in maybe after the meeting to 13 Greg just so they're on the record, and then the 14 motion would be the committee recommend to the 15 Secretary of the Treasury Obverse 3 and Reverse 3. 16 17 DR. BROWN: Sounds like a motion. there a second? 18 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 19 DR. BROWN: 20 Is the motion? Second, Chair Brown. Second. Any discussion on Hearing none, all those in favor, aye. 21 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 22 DR. BROWN: Aye. Those opposed, nay. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 244 1 Appears that the motion passed unanimously. 2 point, ladies and gentlemen, we are in recess. 3 MS. WARREN: Why don't we -- if this is 4 okay with ODM, we go to recess until 1:20. 5 like, five minutes -- 6 MS. SULLIVAN: 7 MS. WARREN: 8 That's -- -- so that should give you MS. SULLIVAN: 10 MS. WARREN: -- fine. -- to eat. Does that make sense? 12 DR. BROWN: 13 MS. WARREN: 14 Sure. So add, guys enough time -- 9 11 At this It goes. Okay. So it is 12:49. are going to go into recess until 1:20. 15 DR. BROWN: One more thing. If I can 16 really thank our liaisons on behalf of the CCAC. 17 mean, listen, it's been phenomenal. 18 I apologize. 19 We MS. SULLIVAN: I Before we recess, Respectfully, Dr. Brown, 20 I do think it would actually be helpful for you to 21 hear the discussion of some of the inscriptions 22 because I do think that it is a bit more than the Mint www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 245 1 is properly positioned to answer. 2 I think we would really appreciate your 3 insight. I know you -- I'm keeping you guys from 4 lunch. 5 really important for this program. And I apologize. 6 But I do think it's actually DR. BROWN: So if the committee members 7 do not mind we're going to not go into recess. 8 we're going to entertain and hear that portion of the 9 suggestion, please. 10 11 MR. SAUNDERS: Chairman, as long as we're not limited to 1:20. 12 13 And DR. BROWN: We will not be limited until 1:20. 14 MR. SAUNDERS: Thank you. 15 MS. SULLIVAN: Would you like to share 16 17 some of the considerations? DR. BROWN: Is it possible that we 18 might be able to do this within about five minutes, 19 ten minutes max? 20 Does that make sense? MS. SULLIVAN: I think just a -- I 21 don't think we necessarily -- and Greg, correct me if 22 I'm wrong -- necessarily will need a vote on it. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 But Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 246 1 I just think hearing some discussion I think will be 2 very helpful as everybody moves forward. 3 DR. BROWN: 4 MR. PHILPOT: Makes sense. And thank you, Dr. Brown. 5 I have a list of -- a packet that I can leave with 6 each of the members that you can review. 7 inscription I think that are missing is World War II 8 is not prevalent on there. 9 Some of this Put my glasses on. I have an image that I suggested on the 10 other side. It's that they were known for -- if you 11 envision -- trailblazers is one word that they used. 12 Record breaker. 13 records for sorting mail. 14 624,000 in 30 days. 15 that timeframe. 16 They broke all the Other postal units did These ladies did 5.85 million in I think that -- they didn't ask for 17 images. 18 in the original package that show those 6888th ladies 19 sitting on top of a stack of mail. 20 But we do have some images that was included If you envision a Super Walmart 21 store -- six of them empty with six bags stacked -- 22 big bags stacked from floor to ceiling with the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 247 1 ladies -- and you'll see the current -- the ladies 2 sitting on top -- these ladies moved these things from 3 the rafters to drop them to the floor. 4 That was across the ships that they 5 were on -- there were five of them. 6 considered. 7 that I think are unique to them. 8 sorting the packaging -- But those would be further inscriptions 9 10 Might be AUTOMATED SPEAKER: Listen what they did Tracy Braford is now exiting. 11 MR. PHILPOT: -- mail, censoring mail. 12 Those are some inscriptions that better describes what 13 they did. 14 these women were 18, 20, 25 years old. And I think that, while I was not asked, 15 And if you look there the images are 16 much older. And they were excited about serving. 17 you can consider -- the artist considered that -- 18 elevating that. 19 And the uniforms -- I'm a man. If The 20 chest was flat. And the uniforms were kind of loose. 21 They wore their uniforms -- what do I want to say -- 22 proudly. If you've been in the military, that shirt www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 248 1 was tucked in. 2 the skirt showed the body. 3 It was tucked in at the waist. And So those are some things that I would 4 offer as you go through forward moving to depict -- 5 the images were included in the original design 6 package that you have in your packet there in front of 7 you. I'm not sure why they were not included. 8 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 9 MR. PHILPOT: Thank you for the 10 opportunity, Ms. Sullivan, for giving me an 11 opportunity to -- 12 MS. SULLIVAN: 13 DR. BROWN: Oh, you're very welcome. Are there any further 14 matters that the staff would like us to hear on this 15 program? 16 that we go into recess. 17 we can come back -- let's back it at 1:40. 18 Hearing none, then on that basis I suggest We're going to modify it. MS. WARREN: That might push us to 19 people having to fly out so I would suggest, if we 20 could, maybe 1:30, 1:35. 21 DR. BROWN: 22 MS. WARREN: 1:30? Okay. The time is 12:54. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 If Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 249 1 (Off the record.) 2 MS. WARREN: 3 Brown, you can go ahead. 4 virtually as well. 5 DR. BROWN: It is 1:37. And Dr. Your two members are on Thank you. And we are back 6 from recess. 7 discussion is the candidate designs for the Greatest 8 Generation Commemorative Coin Program authorized by 9 Public Law 117-162. 10 11 The third item today for our review and Once again we are pleased to have Megan Sullivan take us through the candidate designs. MS. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 12 Public Law 117-62 requires the Secretary of the 13 Treasury to mint and issue five dollar gold coins, one 14 dollar silver coins, and half-dollar clad coins 15 emblematic of the World War II Memorial and the 16 service and sacrifice of American soldiers and 17 civilians during World War II. 18 The National World War II Memorial 19 honors the 16 million who served in the armed forces 20 of the United States, the more than 400,000 who died, 21 and all who supported the war effort from home by 22 joining the workforce, increasing factory and farm www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 250 1 outputs, planting victory gardens, and through 2 rationing. 3 The Memorial opened to the public on 4 April 29, 2004, and was dedicated one month later. 5 is located on the National Mall in Washington, D.C. 6 It Symbolic of the defining event of the 7 20th century, the Memorial is a monument to the 8 spirit, sacrifice, and commitment of the American 9 people to the common defense of the nation and to the 10 broader causes of peace and freedom from tyranny 11 throughout the world. 12 The Memorial is meant to inspire future 13 generations of Americans, deepening their appreciation 14 of the World War II generation's accomplishments in 15 securing freedom and democracy. 16 Above all, the Memorial stands as an 17 important symbol of American national unity, a 18 timeless reminder of the moral strength and awesome 19 power that can flow when a free people are at once 20 united and bonded together in a common and just cause. 21 22 Surcharges for this program are authorized to be paid to the Friends of the National www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 251 1 World War II Memorial to support the National Park 2 Service in maintaining and repairing the World War II 3 Memorial, and for educational and commemorative 4 programs. 5 The United States Mint worked with 6 Holly Rotondi, the Executive Director of the Friends 7 of the National World War II Memorial, in developing 8 the design portfolio. 9 Holly to say a few words. 10 And I would like to introduce MS. ROTONDI: Hi. Thank you so much. 11 I'm proud to be here. 12 process. 13 National World War II Memorial was founded by the 14 folks who built the World War II Memorial. 15 members of the American Battle Monuments Commission. 16 We're very excited by this Just as a quick background, Friends of the They were And after the memorial was dedicated in 17 2004 the Friends was founded to provide a 18 commemorative and educational extension to the 19 memorial experience. 20 But we worked very closely with the 21 National Park Service. We embarked on this effort 22 because we knew the Park Service was in need of a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 252 1 partner in the maintenance of the memorial. 2 that was our goal for this commemorative coin. 3 And so And we're excited that we're here at 4 this process. 5 and the designs they came up with. 6 We are so impressed by the design team We obviously had preferences more 7 related to the memorial and showcasing the memorial 8 because for us there's no greater representation of 9 the entire generation. 10 Seventeen years, more than twenty-six 11 public hearings really going through every symbol of 12 that memorial to make sure that it appropriately 13 remembered and honored the World War II generation. 14 And so we obviously -- and as it will 15 be the 20th anniversary memorial our preferences are 16 that way. 17 discussions. 18 But we're looking forward to the And we're proud to be here. MS. SULLIVAN: Thank you. Thank you. All right. 19 If there are -- are there any questions? 20 like me to begin the -- reviewing the designs? 21 22 DR. BROWN: Or would you I think that makes sense. And I think that we'll use the format that we did www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 253 1 previously for the other commemorative coin program so 2 that -- where we covered each of the planchets 3 separately. 4 through them all. 5 But I think when you're ready you can go MS. SULLIVAN: 6 Okay. 7 gold obverse designs. 8 the shape of the Wall of Stars at the World War II 9 Memorial with a single star to mark the dead and roses 10 Happy to do so. Go through all of them? All right. Beginning with the Gold Obverse Design 1 depicts to honor their passing. 11 The Wall of Stars at the memorial 12 contains 4,048 gold stars, representing the Americans 13 who gave their lives in service during World War II. 14 Each star represents approximately 100 service 15 members. 16 The additional inscription, "Here we 17 mark the price of freedom" echoes the inscription in 18 front of the Memorial Wall. 19 preference of the liaison. 20 This design is the second Obverse Design 2 -- Gold Obverse Design 21 2 -- depicts an eternal flame, a symbol of 22 commemoration and a reminder of our nation's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 254 1 commitment during World War II. The flame is flanked 2 by laurels, signifying victory. The additional 3 inscription is, "They answered the call". 4 Gold Obverse Design 3 depicts the Wall 5 of Stars at the World War II Memorial with an olive 6 branch and the additional inscription, "World War II 7 Memorial". This is the liaison's preferred design. 8 9 Gold Obverse 4 depicts stars representing the Wall of Stars at the World War II 10 Memorial with an olive branch and eagle. 11 additional inscription is, "Honoring sacrifices of 12 World War II". 13 The Moving on to the gold reverse designs. 14 Gold Reverse 1 and 1A depict a folded flag with the 15 additional inscription, "World War II Memorial". 16 Design 1 also features the inscription, 17 "Here we mark the price of freedom". Design 1A also 18 features the inscription, "To unite the generation of 19 tomorrow". 20 Gold Reverse 2 depicts a view of the 21 National World War II Memorial surrounded by a rope 22 representative of the bronze ropes connecting the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 255 1 pillars at the memorial. 2 is, "Honoring their service and sacrifice". 3 the liaison's preferred design. 4 The additional inscription This is Gold Reverse 3 and Gold Reverse 3A 5 depict ropes representative of the bronze ropes 6 connecting the pillars of the World War II Memorial 7 and a wreath inspired by those hanging on each pillar. 8 9 The additional inscriptions in Design 3A are, "World War II", "1941-1945", and "Unity and 10 Sacrifice". Design 3 is the liaison's second 11 preference. And 3A is the third preference. 12 Gold Reverse 4 depicts stars 13 representing the Wall of Stars at the memorial with an 14 olive branch and eagle. 15 Gold Reverse 5 depicts an oak wreath 16 and an excerpt from a quote from President Truman 17 inscribed at the memorial, "America will never 18 forget". 19 And that completes the gold designs. Moving on to the silver obverse 20 designs. As previously mentioned, the liaisons do not 21 have a preference for the silver obverse designs but 22 welcome the committee's assistance in determining the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 256 1 best design for this phase of the coin. 2 Silver Obverse 1 and 1A depict a view 3 from above a baldacchino, a sculptural canopy, inside 4 a victory pavilion in the World War II Memorial 5 featuring four eagles holding a laurel wreath. 6 the wreath is a globe centered on the Atlantic Ocean. 7 Inside The additional inscriptions are, 8 "Victory", "In the Air", "At Sea", and "On Land". 9 Design 1 additionally includes the inscription, "In 10 11 the Atlantic". And we have Design 1 and 1A. Silver Obverses 2, 2A, and 2B feature 12 an allegorical tableau of figures supporting a globe. 13 Each figure represents a branch of the US Armed Forces 14 during World War II -- Air Force, Cost Guard, Navy, 15 Army, and Marine Corps -- plus a figure representing 16 the critical work of the merchant marines. 17 Design 2 additionally features a 18 decorative rope and scroll inspired by bronze 19 sculptural pieces at the World War II Memorial. 20 Design 2B features the additional 21 inscriptions, "World War II Memorial", "1941-1945", 22 and "Defenders of Freedom". www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 257 1 Silver Obverse 3 features a reimagining 2 of the figure of liberation on the World War II 3 victory medal awarded to all who served in the Armed 4 Forces during the war. 5 are, "World War II" and "They answered the call". The additional inscriptions 6 Silver Obverse 4 depicts a silhouetted 7 soldier in salute pose with overlaid flag stripes and 8 stars in the background, honoring those who served 9 during World War II. 10 Silver Obverse 5 and 5A depict the 11 victory medal centered in a design that marks the 12 victory in the Atlantic and Pacific by sea, air, and 13 land. 14 The design is encircled by ropes 15 representing the unity of the country during World War 16 II. 17 propeller. 18 the silver obverse designs. Design 5 additionally includes an anchor and 19 So Design 5 and 5A. And that completes Moving on to the silver reverse 20 designs. Silver Reverses 1 and 1A depict a view from 21 beneath a baldacchino, sculptural canopy, inside a 22 victory pavilion in the World War II Memorial www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 258 1 featuring four eagles holding a laurel wreath. 2 the wreath is a globe centered on the Pacific Ocean. 3 Inside The additional inscriptions are, 4 "Victory", "In the Air", "At Sea", and "On Land". 5 Design 1 additionally features the inscription, "In 6 the Pacific". 7 design. Design 1A is the liaison's preferred 8 Silver Reverses 2 and 3 depict a thick 9 rope inspired by the bronze ropes at the World War II 10 Memorial, created by six separate smaller strands. 11 Each strand represents a branch of the 12 US Armed Forces that served in World War II with a 13 sixth strand representing the service and support of 14 the merchant marines. 15 Design 2 features the insignia of each 16 of the six organizations and the additional 17 inscriptions, "Air Force", "Coast Guard", "Navy", 18 "Army", "Merchant Marines", and "Marine Corps". 19 In Design 3 a rabbit -- a ribbon wraps 20 across -- around the rope inscribed with six stars, 21 also representing the six branches. 22 Or 4. No. Two and three. Design 3 and 3A. Sorry about that. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 259 1 Design 4 depicts a view of the World 2 War II Memorial surrounded by a rope representing the 3 bronze ropes and connecting the pillars of the 4 memorial. 5 their service and sacrifice". 6 The additional inscription is, "Honoring Silver Reverse 5 depicts an aerial view 7 of one of the towers at the National World War II 8 Memorial. 9 Pacific Tower at the National World War II Memorial. 10 Designs 6 and 6A depict a view of the Design 6 also features trees in the 11 background and the additional inscriptions, 12 "Sacrifice", "Courage", and "Perseverance". 13 In Design 6A, the additional 14 inscriptions are, "Unity", "Honor", "Humility", 15 "Courage", "Sacrifice", and "Freedom". 16 the liaison's second preference. 17 liaison's third preference. 18 Design 6A is And Design 6 is the Silver Reverse 7 and 7A depict the 19 World War II victory medal against a globe rotated to 20 show both the Atlantic and Pacific theaters of World 21 War II. 22 "1945", "Courage", "Honor", and "Sacrifice" -- 7 and The additional inscriptions are "1941", www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 260 1 7A. 2 Silver Reverse 8 is inspired by a 3 sculpture at the World War II Memorial showing the 4 eagle facing towards peace and crowned with a banner 5 emblazoned, "E. Pluribus Unum" and 13 stars 6 representing that American's unity led to victory. 7 And that completes the silver reverse designs. 8 9 Moving on to the clad. Clad Obverse 1 and 1A depict an oak wreath with drawn sword and 10 shield representing the industrial might of the United 11 States during World War II. 12 The elements are circumscribed by the 13 rope of bronze that connects the pillars at the World 14 War II Memorial. 15 1 is "Righteous strength forged through unity". 16 the additional inscriptions in Design 1A are "World 17 War II" and "Righteous strength". 18 preference. 20 preference. 22 And Design 1 is the liaison's third 19 21 The additional inscription in Design And Design 1A is the liaison's second Clad Obverse 2 and 2A depict a young boy in mourning holding a folded flag. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 In Design 2 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 261 1 the additional inscriptions are "Freedom", 2 "Sacrifice", "Honor", "Humility", "Courage", and "A 3 nation conceived in liberty and justice". 4 In Design 2A the additional 5 inscriptions are "Sacrifice" and "The price of freedom 6 is not free". 7 Clad Obverse 4 depicts a mother and son 8 working in a victory garden watching a C-17 -- 9 watching C-17 transport planes flying soldiers to war. 10 The additional inscriptions are "Freedom", 11 "Selflessness", "Honor", "Courage", "Humility", and 12 "Sacrifice". 13 Clad Obverse 5 depicts the hands of 14 three workers on the home front holding a hammer, a 15 garden hoe, and a wrench -- symbolic of America's 16 rapidly-changing labor market during World War II as 17 citizens of all ages worked in agriculture and 18 manufacturing to produce large quantities of food, 19 supplies, and equipment for US troops. 20 inscription is "Fighting for liberty" and "On the home 21 front". 22 The additional Clad Obverse 6 depicts a pillar at the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 262 1 World War II Memorial with a bronze wreath surrounded 2 by rays and a rope representing bronze ropes at the 3 memorial. 4 The additional inscriptions are "1941", 5 "1945", and "United we stand". 6 liaison's preferred design. Design 6 is the 7 Moving on to the clad reverse designs. 8 Clad Reverse 1 depicts a wreath of wheat with a plow, 9 representing the agricultural might of the United 10 11 States during World War II. The elements are circumscribed by the 12 rope of bronze that connects the pillars at the World 13 War II Memorial. 14 "Forged through unity". 15 The additional inscription is Clad Reverse 2 depicts one of the many 16 communities across the nation where residents united 17 in the home front war efforts such as rationing, 18 donating scrap metal, and growing victory gardens. 19 The additional inscription is "National unity". 20 Clad Reverse 3 depicts a view of the 21 World War II Memorial with a flag flying behind. 22 additional inscriptions are "Unity" and "1941-1945". www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 The Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 263 1 Design 3 is the liaison's second preference. 2 Clad Reverse 4 depicts a field of stars 3 representing the Wall of Stars at the World War II 4 Memorial. 5 1945", "A grateful nation", and "Remembers Gold Star 6 Families". The additional inscriptions are "1941- 7 Clad Reverse 5 features an upraised arm 8 clutching a wrench with a B-17 bomber and liberty ship 9 in the background with a border of riveted panels. 10 And Clad Reverse 7 depicts the World 11 War II Memorial from the point of view of a person 12 walking up a ramp leading to one of the towers. 13 Design 7 is the liaison's preferred design. 14 completes the portfolios. 15 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. And that At this 16 point I would suggest that the committee consider if 17 there's any technical or legal questions pertaining 18 first to the gold obverse and reverse. 19 MR. BERNSTEIN: Art? Just a quick technical 20 question. On Obverse 2 for the gold -- it's been a 21 while since I've been to the memorial. 22 eternal flame at the memorial? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Is there an Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 264 1 MS. ROTONDI: 2 MS. WARREN: 3 Dennis Tucker has his hand up. 4 DR. BROWN: 5 MR. TUCKER: 6 No. Dennis? Thank you. And I didn't hear the answer to that last question. 7 MS. ROTONDI: 8 DR. BROWN: 9 MR. TUCKER: No; there is not. The answer is no. Okay. Thank you. I did 10 have a technical question on Gold Obverse 3 the -- 11 which was a preference of the liaisons. 12 in the words "World War II" seems very tight. 13 that something that could be refined a bit so that 14 there's more spacing between those three words? 15 MR. MENNA: The crooning Joe, is This is Joseph Menna. 16 Dennis, not only World War II could be expanded 17 leftwards or -- regardless of what the graphics 18 present our product design specialists and artists 19 always find a way to make the coins imminently 20 readable. 21 22 Even if they need to be modified, to modify it in a way that maintains their stylistic and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 265 1 design integrity but just makes them more coinable. 2 So in this case I understand why it's 3 aesthetically compressed. But we would -- we'll make 4 it so it would work if this would be the Secretary's 5 selection. 6 MR. TUCKER: 7 MR. MENNA: Thank you. 8 DR. BROWN: Any other legal or 9 Thank you, Joe. technical question from the committee? 10 MR. SAUNDERS: What was the committee's 11 -- or what was the constituent's preference for the 12 reverse? Number one preference. 13 MS. SULLIVAN: The gold reverse? 14 MR. SAUNDERS: Yeah. 15 MS. SULLIVAN: Sure. 16 design is Reverse 2. 17 second preference is Reverse 3. 18 preference. 19 The preferred The second preferred -- the DR. BROWN: And 3A is the third Other questions from the 20 committee? I just have one. I'm looking forward a 21 century from now and looking at the fact that we have 22 this fantastic commemorative coin program. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 266 1 And also thinking about that term -- 2 the greatest generation. 3 the thinking about the -- not including that 4 inscription. 5 I'm sort of curious as to I'm sort of curious. MS. ROTONDI: That's to me? That's 6 interesting. Just to give a little background, that 7 was changed. The name of the program was changed -- 8 or the legislation by a senator in the later drafts. 9 So it wasn't the initial intention to 10 have that. 11 generations which is we don't use it as often. 12 always talk about the next greatest generation. 13 I think it's one of those greatest We But every generation should be striving 14 to be a great -- a greatest generation; right? 15 that's sort of where we are coming from. 16 opposed to it necessarily. So I'm not 17 But I think for us we don't necessarily 18 lean on that phrasing as an organization because we're 19 -- we work a lot in education and are striving to 20 teach youth that you can be a greatest generation as 21 well. 22 So that's sort of where we come from. DR. BROWN: Understood. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Thank you. Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 267 1 DR. FULLER: May I follow up on that? 2 This is Harcourt Fuller. 3 do young folks see -- I guess you've answered it. 4 I guess I would like to ask for a more specific 5 explanation. 6 generation as the greatest generation? 7 So in today's classrooms how Do they recognize the greatest MS. ROTONDI: It is interesting that 8 you say that because we actually are in the 9 classrooms. 10 So there's this program we started in 2021 where we're actually in the classrooms. 11 And then that -- just last year we 12 started doing surveys. 13 you know what the greatest generation is. 14 80 percent said no; they've never heard the 15 expression. 16 And one of the questions is do And I think Which is interesting. And it's something that's so common to 17 me that I was actually a little bit surprised. 18 they did -- had never heard the -- these are high 19 school students. 20 familiar to them at all -- the phrase "greatest 21 generation", which was interesting. 22 But It was something that was not And so we're going in -- as we're www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 268 1 telling the stories of the everyday men and women who 2 served in the hopes of offering them inspiration from 3 the act -- ordinary people, you know, with 4 extraordinary circumstances and what they were capable 5 of. 6 equally capable of being extraordinary. And sort of trying to inspire them that they are 7 DR. BROWN: 8 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 9 Chairman. Dean? Thank you, Mr. This is Dean Kotlowski. And if I remember 10 correctly I almost want to say that World War II is 11 one of these wars that has inspired these labels that 12 come from popular books. 13 And from what I remember, Greatest 14 Generation was this book by Tom Brokaw. 15 popular book was a book by Studs Terkel, an oral 16 history called The Good War. 17 But the other And those appellations have been used. 18 And then they have been emphasized, deconstructed, 19 discarded, brought back. 20 that is ongoing with these phrases. 21 22 So I mean, it's something But I had a question. Let's say even though you're not putting "greatest generation" on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 269 1 these coins, this is what this is being labeled -- so 2 we've got the big theme. 3 I'm just wondering if there are -- if 4 there's a subtheme for the gold, subtheme for the 5 silver, subtheme for the clad -- something that might 6 be parallel to what we had with the Harriet Tubman 7 coin where it was chronology. 8 envisioned? 9 one. And if you don't I am going to impose And I don't -- 10 11 Was that in any way MS. ROTONDI: Meagan or me. 12 I don't know if you want I can -MS. SULLIVAN: We had initially spoken 13 about the three representing -- the gold representing 14 the sacrifice, the fallen soldiers. 15 The silver -- and correct me if I'm 16 getting this wrong, Holly -- the silver representing 17 the service of, you know, those who served in uniform. 18 And then the clad representing everyday Americans who 19 were not necessarily in uniform. 20 look. So -- 21 22 That was the initial DR. BROWN: comments? Any further questions or Hearing none, seeing none, let us begin our www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 270 1 consideration. 2 to keep our comments to three minutes or less. 3 you have questions we'll have an opportunity at the 4 end to pose them. 5 I would like to plead with the members So let's begin with -- DR. VAN ALFEN: 6 point of clarification. 7 planchets -DR. BROWN: 9 DR. VAN ALFEN: 11 DR. BROWN: Correct. at this point. DR. VAN ALFEN: 13 DR. BROWN: 15 -- or are we -- We're just focusing on gold 12 14 Dr. Brown, just a quick We are doing the separate 8 10 And if less. Okay. All right. So again, three minutes or Let's begin with none other than Dennis Tucker. MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Dr. Brown. I 16 think that the liaison's preferences of Obverse 3 and 17 Reverse 2 will make a wonderful coin. 18 the choices that I support. And those are Thank you. 19 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 20 MR. SAUNDERS: I like Obverse 2. 21 be nice if there was a flame at the memorial to 22 correspond to it. John? It'd But I still like the design anyway. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 271 1 It looks nice-looking and it's inspiring and so forth. 2 Though also Obverse 4 would look perfectly acceptable 3 to me. 4 On the reverse drawing design I like 5 1A. The reason is my father fought in World War II. 6 And when he died, which was not during the war -- it 7 was 12 years ago or so -- they took a flag because he 8 was in the service and put it over his coffin. 9 And they folded it up in this design 10 and presented it to me at the funeral or slightly -- I 11 don't know exactly when I got it. 12 fold ever since then in a box. 13 I kept it in that And it was really wonderful of my 14 father. So that means something to me personally so I 15 like that design best. 16 if we didn't go with that design Reverse 4 is a nice 17 design as well. And let's see. I also thought That's it for me. 18 DR. BROWN: Thank you. 19 MR. SCARINCI: Yeah. Donald? I think Obverse 3 20 is a no-brainer and just about makes it onto the size 21 planchet. 22 The reverse is a little more www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 272 1 challenging. 2 the most interesting one. 3 is going to be somewhat lost on the planchet size. 4 You know, I mean, obviously Reverse 2 is But you know, that detail You know, I just think the others are 5 just too boring to consider. 6 I'm going to go with Obverse 3 and Reverse 2. 7 8 DR. BROWN: So I just have to do -- Thank you so much. Let's turn now to Dean. 9 DR. KOTLOWSKI: Thank you, Mr. 10 Chairman. And Megan, thank you. 11 sacrifice -- the highest form of sacrifice for the 12 gold for the second, which is the clad or the silver? 13 MS. SULLIVAN: 14 DR. KOTLOWSKI: These were my Silver. The silver. 15 have said instead of "sacrifice" "victory". 16 MS. SULLIVAN: 17 DR. KOTLOWSKI: I would Okay. And then the last would 18 be the clad. I would have said in terms of the theme 19 there "the home front" representing the home front. 20 MS. SULLIVAN: 21 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 22 There is some -More on that later. But as Don said and as others have said, Design 3 for www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 273 1 the obverse is a no-brainer. 2 beautiful design. 3 aspect of the memorial that's very inspiring. 4 It's actually a very And it's very evocative of an Again I have to agree and maybe 5 disagree with Don. 6 reverse. 7 I have a lot of problems with the And then ultimately I just simply 8 decided I can't go with Obverse 2 because it's simply 9 too detailed and it's too small. And I think we may 10 be wanting to do some things with the memorial a 11 little later. 12 So I actually wound up agreeing with 13 John. 14 grandfather's service and when he died with the folded 15 flag. 16 so those were my choices. 17 DR. BROWN: 18 19 I thought that 1A reminded me of my And that really hammered the issue home. And Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you so much. Let's turn now to Peter. DR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 20 I just want to preface my comments by saying I spent 21 about two hours at the memorial yesterday. 22 really spent time there before. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Haven't Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 274 1 And I really wanted to try to 2 understand what it was I was looking at on the coin 3 designs and to just try to get a sense of all this. 4 Obverse 3 I think is, as Dean said, 5 very evocative. 6 also mentioned, we might want to choose some similar 7 design to -- for a later consideration with the clad 8 or what have you. 9 I like that quite a bit. And as he So I prefer the second choice of the 10 reverse -- the second preference -- Reverse 3 -- since 11 this incorporates some of the major just design 12 elements of the monuments -- the wreaths as well as 13 the bronze ropes that are there. 14 And I think since this is -- in a way 15 this program is focused on the monument as well as 16 what the monument represents. 17 I think they're trying to incorporate 18 elements of the monuments rather than, say, full flag, 19 which is symbolic but is not actually part of what is 20 represented at the monuments. 21 Obverse 3 and Reverse 3 are my preferences. 22 DR. BROWN: So again 3 and 3 -- Thank you so much. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Art? Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 275 1 MR. BERNSTEIN: This is Art Bernstein. 2 I'm having a little trouble with the phrase "no- 3 brainer" because I don't agree. 4 that says about my opinion. 5 And I don't know what But I'm afraid I don't agree with the 6 liaison's recommendation. 7 the wall to be -- to seem like an optical illusion. 8 And for me the stars appear misshapen and so I was not 9 attracted to that design. 10 I found that curvature of I like the more traditional approaches 11 of designs -- Obverse Designs 1 and 2. 12 reverse I would go with the preference of the liaison. 13 I thought Reverse 2 would be a good choice. 14 15 DR. BROWN: And for the Thank you so much. Dr. Fuller? 16 DR. FULLER: Thank you, Dr. Chairman. 17 This is Harcourt Fuller. 18 these designs, all of them, they are wonderful. 19 First of all let me say that They I think evoke so much history, 20 emotions. It makes it challenging to choose. 21 Nonetheless I will go ahead and endorse the 22 recommendations of the liaison. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 276 1 2 DR. BROWN: Thank you. Let's go to MR. MORAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. Mike Moran. 3 This 4 is Mike Moran. I guess I'm falling in the no-brainer 5 category here. It's dangerous. 6 I actually, when I went through these, 7 looked at Gold Obverse 3 and 4. 8 equal. 9 them. 10 I felt they were And still feel that way between the two of Maybe if I had my way I would lean to 4 over 3. But I'd probably give them both threes. 11 On the reverse I like Gold Reverse 3. 12 It's uncluttered. 13 World War II and the date there as you do in 3A. 14 I don't think you need to have the I also like the tie back to the 15 memorial itself using the design elements from the 16 memorial. 17 reverse for that. 18 19 I think the wreath and the rope make a nice So that's where I am. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Let's turn now to Darla. 20 MS. JACKSON: 21 Thank you so much. 22 Obverse 2. This is Darla Jackson. I was really leaning toward But hearing that there was no eternal www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 277 1 flame at the site it made me go in favor of the 2 preferred design of 03 -- Obverse 3. 3 And then the reverse -- I felt that at 4 this scale, while Reverse 2 was my preferred design 5 overall, just looking at it at that size that it would 6 be produced at it became problematic in terms of 7 legibility from my point of view. 8 9 And so I went for Reverse 5. It's one of the more simplified but it references the wreaths, 10 which have a few present at that location. 11 felt it -- to honor them in that way would be nice. 12 13 DR. BROWN: And so I Thank you so much. Let's turn now to Kellen. 14 MR. HOARD: Thank you. 15 Hoard. 16 obverse designs were kind of boring. 17 really spoke to me. This is Kellen Honestly with all due respect I thought the 18 None of them As we mentioned, I feel like I see a 19 lot of stars. I see a lot of olive branches. 20 those really spoke to me as anything particular to 21 greatest generations or World War II besides there 22 being a Wall of Stars. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 None of Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 278 1 And as a member of the public I feel 2 the same in representing the public. 3 stars. 4 obverse. 5 I see a lot of So none of them really -- 3 was fine for an Like, I'd be okay with that. I'd also even be okay using Reverse 1A 6 as an obverse even. 7 together what the liaison said about, you know, 8 generations today and tomorrow realizing the 9 applicability going forward. 10 I think that might tie better And actually trying to make it the 11 greatest generation themselves because it actually 12 does key in on the generations of tomorrow. 13 would tie it in on the obverse. 14 And I think that -- even that kind of 15 somewhat more interesting design. 16 -- would even be on the table for me. 17 And then so that's And then on the reverse my initial 18 inclination was to go to 2 on reverse. 19 that's going to be probably too many details. 20 still give it points. 21 too many details. 22 So that But I think I'll But I think it's going to be So I would go with probably one of the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 279 1 wreath ones. 2 Larger point was just I was not really taken with any 3 of the obverses there. 4 I have no strong opinions there either. So yeah. DR. BROWN: Thank you. Thank you so much. 5 confess that I was probably moved more by the 6 preferences of the liaison. 7 align my votes with them. 8 9 10 I must So I'm going to in fact At this point are there any additional comments or motions from the members? Mike or Joe, do you have any additional comments? 11 MR. MENNA: 12 MR. SCARINCI: 13 additionally? 14 earlier. 15 too. 16 No, sir. Can I say something I'm thinking about what John said You know, and I happen to have a folded flag And I think the purpose, you know, the 17 purpose of a commemorative program, you know, in 18 addition to memorializing something, right, is at the 19 end of the day you want to make money; right? 20 want that surcharge; right? 21 you know? 22 And you Because that's important; So I'm kind of thinking by putting the, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 280 1 you know, by putting the folded flag on the reverse 2 you are at least doing something here that does create 3 a connection to living people that will buy -- that 4 possibly will buy this coin; right? 5 create those constituencies of coin. 6 And therefore So as much as I -- and I don't 7 particularly care for any of the reverse designs. 8 I think No. 2 -- Darla's completely right. 9 And And the more I look at No. 2 I know I'm 10 going to regret it when I see the coin because it's 11 going to be -- you know, forget a seven -- you know, 12 we're going to need a seven-time loop to look at this 13 coin; right? 14 So probably No. 2, as nice as it is, 15 maybe we could put it into -- I think Peter said this. 16 There are other places where we do this. 17 can save No. 2 for one of the larger, you know, one of 18 the larger planchets. 19 So maybe we And I could see where Darla's coming 20 from with Reverse 5. 21 thing. 22 with 3. It's simple. It's a small I could also see where Mike is coming from But I think 1A creates some constituency for www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 281 1 the coin. So I just wanted to just add that. 2 DR. BROWN: 3 members of the committee? 4 will now score the candidate designs for the Greatest 5 Generation Commemorative Coin Program. 6 Any further comments by Hearing none, the committee Again as usual you have your 7 scoresheets -- and those of us participating 8 virtually. 9 We will take a five-minute break for the scoring and 10 Please all provide them to Greg Weinman. tallying. 11 (Off the record.) 12 MS. WARREN: 13 It is 2:16. We are back We are back. I recognize recording. 14 DR. BROWN: 15 Greg Weinman, counsel to the CCAC, to present the 16 results from the scoring. 17 MR. WEINMAN: The results for the gold. 18 The obverse was fairly conclusive. 19 points, Obverse 1 received 4. 20 Obverse 3 received 27. 21 design. 22 Out of 33 possible Obverse 2 received 11. That became the high-scoring And Obverse 4 received 13. The reverses were a little less www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 282 1 conclusive. Reverse 1 received 2. 2 received 18, making it technically the highest vote- 3 getter. 4 Reverse 1A Reverse 2 received 16. 5 received 15. Reverse 3A received 3. 6 five. 7 less conclusive on the reverses. 8 respect to the obverse. And then Reverse 5 received 12. 9 DR. BROWN: Okay. Reverse 3 Four received So a little But conclusive with Following the 10 pattern that we did previously let us then proceed to 11 the silver. 12 it at three minutes or less. 13 Tucker. Again I'd like to recommend that we keep 14 MR. TUCKER: Let's turn to Dennis Thank you, Dr. Brown. 15 the obverse of the silver dollar I was attracted to 16 Obverse 2 in its various iterations. 17 I think central design is really neat. 18 It spells out the coin's purpose. 19 It's dramatic. 20 accomplishment. 21 22 For It's monumental. It speaks to service and work and So I was really drawn to Obverse 2. think that this is -- it's so monumental. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It's I Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 283 1 something that we would expect to see on the three- 2 inch bronze Congressional Gold Medal for a World War 3 II theme. 4 So I really like. Of the three, I think 2B is the 5 strongest because it spells out what's going on. 6 know, it's got the inscriptions, "World War II 7 Memorial". 8 9 You It has the dates 1941 to 1945, defenders of freedom. So 2B is my strong preference. 10 And then for the reverse I think the liaison's 11 preference of 1A is strong. 12 And I think it's -- these are just 13 going to be wonderful sculptural opportunities for the 14 Mint's engravers. 15 for the reverse. 16 17 18 I like 2B for the obverse and 1A Thank you, Mr. Chair. DR. BROWN: Thank you. Turning now to John. MR. SAUNDERS: For the obverse, first 19 question on Obverse 03. 20 hand that doesn't have the sword? 21 bolt or a series of lightning bolts or -- 22 What is being held in the MS. SULLIVAN: Is that a lightning It's a broken sword. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 284 1 MR. SAUNDERS: It's a broken sword? 2 MS. SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. 3 DR. BROWN: 4 The other side of the sword -- the broken sword. 5 MR. SAUNDERS: Okay. I like the 6 design. I would like something -- an olive leaf, 7 branch, instead of a broken sword for the other side 8 to kind of be consistent with American coins. 9 like that one. 10 And I thought 05A is not bad. 11 like the other better. 12 really liked with the obverse design. 13 But I I still And those are the only two I Reverse design I like the ones where 14 they show the memorial. 15 6A. I think my favorite would be But I could live with 6, 5, or 4 for that matter. 16 And if we didn't choose Obverse 2 I 17 like 7 also. 18 know, you wouldn't put a group of planes on it. 19 They're on opposite sides of each other. 20 DR. BROWN: 21 22 Same reason I liked Obverse 2. Thank you so much. You Turning to Donald. MR. SCARINCI: I really do like Obverse www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 285 1 1 or 1A would be fine. 2 even though it's not something I would typically like 3 it does kind of remind you of some of our classic 4 commemorative coins from the classic series. 5 I think Obverse 2B, you know, And so I think I would go with -- as 6 far as an obverse I think it's a tough call between 1A 7 and 2B. But I think probably it's 2B. 8 For the reverse I agree with John about 9 this is our -- this is an independent -- I think Peter 10 said it earlier in the opening context of the gold. 11 There's another opportunity to get this monument in. 12 This might be the place to do it. 13 So any one of those -- 4 or 5 -- 14 probably 4, 5, or 6A -- 5 being a little more 15 interesting because of the -- a little more 16 artistically interesting in terms of the view, which 17 is not something you might normally see. 18 probably will go with 5. 19 20 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Let's turn now to Dean. 21 22 So I DR. KOTLOWSKI: Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much, This is Dean Kotlowski. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I'm very Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 286 1 grateful to the members of the committee who went 2 before me because they helped to clarify my thinking 3 about this program and about this portfolio, which I 4 really struggled with. 5 So I'm going to start out with what I 6 didn't much care for. 7 were one -- Obverse 1 and 1A. 8 versions of this. 9 And those were the ones that And then we get You know, I don't know. I'm going to 10 come across and fill the scene here a little bit. 11 you know, I -- it reminded me Esther Williams and 12 Busby Berkeley musicals where you're looking at the 13 top of something and there are people sort of swimming 14 around in there. 15 And those were the eagles -- I had 16 trouble making it out and seeing how it all fit 17 together. 18 the artist. 19 short. 20 But I think it was a good effort on the part of There's something about it that just fell Like John, I think it's time to 21 represent on the coin the victory medal. 22 a victory again here. And so I see So I was very drawn to Obverse www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 287 1 3. 2 I really discounted 2, 2A, ad 2B. But 3 Dennis, you know, got me -- and others got me thinking 4 that, you know, maybe 2B is good. 5 depiction of people. 6 I like the And so I'm going to give that some 7 consideration and see what everyone else says. 8 very much a follower with this one. 9 I'm But on the reverse I was very much 10 attracted to 6A, 6, and 5. 11 I'm in -- if I want to be a little bit artistic I 12 agree with Don. 13 And depending what mood You know, 5 really gives you a 14 different perspective -- manages to cover a good 15 portion of the monument. 16 For me it's a tie between 5 and 6A, 17 which is very traditional. 18 don't have the trees in the background. 19 all of those nice words. 20 to it. 21 22 But it's uncluttered. You And you have And it's got a good balance So it's kind of a tie between 5 and 6A and then maybe -- yeah. And then 6 being maybe a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 288 1 little bit below that. 2 3 Thank you, Mr. Chair. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Let's turn now to Art. 4 MR. BERNSTEIN: This is Art Bernstein. 5 There were some obverse designs and reverse designs 6 that featured those eagles that we were just speaking 7 of. 8 9 10 And I found those eagles hard to see. And so I discounted both of those designs for the obverse as well as for the reverses. 11 I also was attracted to the depiction 12 of victory. I like the tie in with the victory medal. 13 And so my preference for the obverse would be Obverse 14 3. 15 depiction of victory. I also like Obverse 5 and 5A again because of the 16 For the reverse I wanted a reverse the 17 features the memorial itself as I was putting victory 18 on the obverse. 19 And I looked carefully at Design 5. To 20 me that looked a little bit like an MC Escher print. 21 The looking at it from above I saw the stairs going up 22 and down in the same look. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 289 1 And it just -- I found it made me a 2 little dizzy. 3 reverses that features the memorial. 4 be 6 and 6A. 5 6 So I would go with one of the other And that would Thank you. DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Dr. Fuller? 7 DR. FULLER: 8 Chairman. 9 Yes. 10 Thank you so much, Dr. Just a couple of things on the obverse. As someone who likes to highlight 11 international relations, I like the fact when we're 12 able to highlight, you know, the Atlantic, for 13 example, you know, all the various countries that 14 played a role in the Second World War. 15 highlighting the Atlantic. 16 So I like With that said though, I do think that 17 although I do like the designs, some of them for me 18 they're too busy. 19 to 04. 20 And that's why I would like to go I really love this coin because it 21 reminds me of the -- is it Evita Adar? 22 one? And also the hope coin; right? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Is that the Because it's Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 290 1 just the way how the lines work. 2 it's a unique coin. 3 And I just think And the other thing I like about this 4 is when I see this, this could be a soldier or a 5 police officer. 6 both. You know, that's just how I -- when I read 7 that. So I really like that. 8 9 And I feel like it pays homage to And then on the reverse I want to say a couple of things. I do like 3. I don't know why. 10 see that as a -- sort of like a double helix. 11 has an unusual design that kind of pulls you in. 12 I It just Nonetheless I do really like 5 because 13 it just feels like you could dive into it. You know, 14 it gives you that three-dimensional look. 15 unusual in the sense that it invites you in. 16 you. For me it's Thank 17 DR. BROWN: Thank you. 18 MR. MORAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. I 19 want to expand a little bit on what Dennis said. I 20 agree with him on the obverse. 21 is. 22 Mike Moran? It's 2B I believe it Back up here. But I want to explain why he chose what www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 291 1 he chose on the reverse. When you look at 2A -- no; 2 2B. 3 there it's got the Atlantic. When you look at 2B and you look at the globe 4 So that is why Dennis went to on the 5 reverse 1A because that's the Pacific. 6 regard Dennis was getting the whole world and the two 7 hemispheres there. 8 accomplish with that. 9 So in that That's what he was trying to I kind of like the way the eagles' 10 wings feather out against the rim there. 11 it'll make a nice coin. 12 I think But I also think in terms of the 13 reverse a couple of observations. 14 it's redundant with what you have if you go with 2B on 15 the obverse. 16 there as well. 17 one. 18 I liked 2. But You already have the various services So I'm not going to be going with that Everybody seems to like 5 because of 19 its three-dimensional aspect on the reverse. 20 is in the drawing three-dimensional. 21 you when you get coin ready you're going to lose that 22 third dimension. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And it But I guarantee Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 292 1 And it's going to look like a mess. I 2 don't think that you're going -- unless you know what 3 you're looking at -- you're going to be able to 4 instantly envision what the artist is trying to 5 represent there. 6 relief. 7 I think it will get lost in coin If you feel that you need to tie into 8 the monument itself the best one with the least amount 9 of clutter is 6A. 10 medal. I like the idea of the victory But I don't like it on the reverse. 11 And the eagle to me is awkward. So I'm 12 really going to be splitting my votes on the reverse. 13 That's it for me. 14 And I have watched my battery go from 15 55 percent to 24 percent. 16 Something is wrong. 17 shut it down here in a minute and get my juice back. 18 19 It must be the server here. But anyway I'm going to have to DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Let's turn to Darla. 20 MS. JACKSON: Hello. This is Darla 21 Jackson. In terms of this set being geared towards 22 service, 2A Obverse is the one that I'm looking at. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 293 1 I enjoyed the whole No. 2 set but I 2 think that giving the figures a little bit of room 3 around them representing each of the arms here 4 supporting together the world I think is a really 5 beautiful sentiment. 6 I think the other ones would work as 7 well. I just think on a smaller scale it just starts 8 to get a little bit more difficult to read. 9 In terms of the reverse I am in favor 10 of the designs that showcase the memorial. 11 partial to No. 5. 12 think the composition is really interesting. 13 I am very I understand the concerns. But I And it's this idea of looking back and 14 looking over what has been accomplished. 15 conceptually I enjoy that idea. 16 So I think However I'd also be very happy with a 17 more straightforward view such as 6A. 18 that's very clean. 19 design to be showcased but not overwhelmed by the text 20 involved. 21 22 I think that There's a lot of room for the DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. turn to Kellen. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Let's Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 294 1 MR. HOARD: Sure. I aligned with a lot 2 of people earlier around Obverse 2B. 3 was compelling. 4 design. 5 I thought that And I liked the people-oriented I think that's -- especially for the 6 public -- pretty exciting to look at. Often more so 7 than allegorical depictions of liberty, especially if 8 we're focusing on greatest generation and trying to 9 tie it back in some way to that theme. And then on 10 the reverse, Joe, I had a question for you if I 11 could -- 12 MR. MENNA: Yeah. 13 MR. HOARD: -- which is that for 14 Reverse 5 there were concerns it would not show up. 15 Do you feel technically that wouldn't -- that it 16 wouldn't show up as three-dimensional in practice? 17 MR. MENNA: This is Joseph Menna. If 18 one refers back -- with all due respect to Mike, we 19 did multiple American innovator dollars that had 20 forced perspective. 21 standing above a city skyline. 22 We had one with an ironworker And we also had one -- forgive me for www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 295 1 forgetting which state. 2 of a tunnel in forced perspective that was -- that is 3 infinitely more difficult to pull off in perspective 4 than this. 5 But there was a cross-section And that was very ably pulled off by 6 the design sculpting staff. Virginia. I guarantee we 7 can pull this off with all due respect to Mike -- 8 MR. HOARD: Perfect. So then -- 9 MR. MENNA: -- ably. 10 MR. HOARD: In that case I would land 11 somewhere on 5 or 6 for reverse. 12 go for 6A. 13 previously mentioned I'm not a fan of vertical lists 14 of words on coins. 15 interesting, less compelling thing. 16 I actually wouldn't I think 6 would be better. And because as I just find them to be a less And to me it kind of seems as if we 17 couldn't find out any way to do that through design or 18 through symbolism so we decided to write the words 19 down directly and not even put it on creatively. 20 So I would rather go with at least 6, 21 which has at least some level of curvature to it, 22 fewer words, and kind of embraces that symbolism more www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 296 1 than explicitly just listing off words that they 2 couldn't find a way to express artistically in a 3 different way. 4 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 5 Chair I must confess that I'm looking -- 6 MS. WARREN: 7 DR. VAN ALFEN: 8 DR. BROWN: 9 As the You missed Peter. Yeah. I'm sorry. I -My apologies. Please. 10 DR. VAN ALFEN: This is Peter van 11 Alfen. 12 monument yesterday is because there are these series 13 of roughly 24 plaques -- bronze plaques -- that are 14 about three feet long and about a foot high that 15 depict various scenes of combat, scenes of the home 16 fronts, and so forth. 17 Part of the reason I spent two hours at the And I find that Obverse 2 actually 18 really ties in well to what you see of the figures 19 across a wide spectrum of activities that are depicted 20 on those plaques. 21 actually really quite compelling. 22 And I find that tie in to be Also this obverse seems reminiscent of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 297 1 that iconic image of the flag raising on Iwo Jima, 2 which also is an iconic image from the Second World 3 War. 4 them -- probably 2A. So I'm very much in favor of Obverse 2 or one of 5 Now part of the other reason I spent a 6 great deal of time there yesterday was that in each 7 one of these towers there is this amazing structure 8 where bronze columns rise up. 9 There are then the eagles perched on 10 top of them which have the ribbons in their mouths, 11 which then support the wreath. 12 amazing thing to look at from different perspectives. 13 And what you're seeing in Reverse 2 -Sorry. And so it is an 14 oh, no. 15 directly below that structure looking up through the 16 opening in the ceiling of that tower where in this 17 case that globe has been positioned where the open sky 18 would be. 19 Reverse 1 is essentially standing And so I also like the tie in between 20 the globe on the -- this reverse and the globe on the 21 obverse of 2. 22 And so there's some continuity between www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 298 1 both the obverse and reverse designs with that as well 2 as some of -- I think some of the most amazing 3 architecture as well as many artistic aspects found on 4 the monument that are represented to some degree in 5 the Obverse 2 and then Reverse 1. 6 favor of that combination of designs. 7 DR. BROWN: So I'm very much in So thank you. Again I want to thank my 8 colleagues for their comments. From my military prism 9 I think I would lean in the direction of Obverse 2B, 10 which actually gives a depiction of one theater and 11 also focuses on people, and Reverse 1A. 12 That gives the globe in another part -- 13 the Pacific -- to the points that were raised earlier. 14 At this point are there any additional questions or 15 comments from members of the committee? 16 MR. SAUNDERS: You know, I know we're 17 never going to do this. 18 Obverse 1A and Reverse 1A done in relief as a medal -- 19 even if the Mint marketing staff wants to do it -- has 20 to do bullion -- I think would be a really cool medal. 21 Really cool. 22 as a set. Anyway. But I think 1A -- I think And then they could market it www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 299 1 DR. BROWN: So we can return the focus 2 on this program. 3 things -- other options later on when the time is -- 4 yes? 5 And we can talk about other MS. ROTONDI: I just wanted to make one 6 comment because I think -- I'm learning a lot 7 listening to all of you and what you're looking for. 8 It's interesting that you -- a lot of 9 you chose the 2 and 2B depicting people. And that was 10 something that we were very concerned about is 11 depicting people because inclusivity and then 12 somebody's excluded. 13 I mean, for example, the 442nd all 14 Japanese American were the most decorated unit. 15 don't think there's an Asian depicted. 16 So I mean, so that -- for me when I 17 look at it I think of who's not represented. 18 that for me was something that was struck. 19 know, I just wanted to make that comment. 20 DR. BROWN: 21 there any further questions or comments? 22 I MS. WARREN: And so But you Thank you so much. Dennis has his hand www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Are Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 300 1 raised, sir. 2 DR. BROWN: 3 MR. TUCKER: 4 MS. WARREN: 6 DR. BROWN: 7 MS. ROTONDI: 8 MR. TUCKER: 10 Thank you, Dr. Brown. I think was that Holly who was just speaking? 5 9 Dennis? that commentary. Yeah. Correct. Yes. Oh. Holly, thank you for And that actually was in the back of my mind as I was reviewing this portfolio. 11 My grandfather-in-law was a member of 12 the USAFFE. So he was a Filipino who volunteered for 13 the United States Armed Forces in the Far East. 14 And anyway, coin design can't do 15 everything. 16 do think that 2B is a great accomplishment. 17 represents well the great accomplishments of that 18 generation. 19 But it can accomplish quite a bit. And I And it So I'm not overly concerned about that 20 absence. But I am aware of it. But it's not of great 21 concern. But thank you for your commentary on that. 22 And thank you, Dr. Brown. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 301 1 DR. VAN ALFEN: I would also just like 2 to respond to Holly's comments. 3 depicting groups of people like this, which is 4 surprisingly representative of an entirely broad 5 population, you are going to have problems like that. 6 As always, when But you know, with concerns of that 7 sort if this were to be chosen we could have a motion 8 to adjust some of the features and some of the people 9 depicted to be a little bit more inclusive. So I 10 mean, that is always an option, you know, with 11 something like that. So adjust as necessary. 12 MS. ROTONDI: 13 DR. BROWN: 14 15 Thank you. Joe and Mike, did you have additional comments or suggestions? MR. MENNA: An inappropriate one -- 16 maybe out of my lane. 17 and I'm not -- I don't want to speak on behalf of ODM 18 -- is to make it more -- to make this more fully 19 representational there'd have to be researches to 20 regiments, uniforms, this and that. 21 22 The only thing with that Peter, Because we do not -- everybody wasn't allowed to fully participate in the same way. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So we'd Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 302 1 have to pick which one of these folks can be this, 2 represent this part of the society, which one of these 3 folks could do that. 4 And that could get a little tricky I 5 think just from my experience of representing a lot of 6 different service people. 7 DR. BROWN: No further comments at this 8 point? Then on that basis I suggest that we make the 9 score. And again please pass your scoresheets -- 10 those of us that are here. 11 participating virtually please send them to Greg. 12 will take five minutes for the score and the tally. 13 14 MS. WARREN: And those that are It is 2:40. (Off the record.) 16 MS. WARREN: 18 Stopping recording. 15 17 It is 2:48 and we're back to recording. DR. BROWN: We are back. I recognize 19 Greg Weinman, counsel to the CCAC, to present the 20 results of the scoring sheets. 21 22 We MR. WEINMAN: Once again there is a more clear preference for the obverse than the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 303 1 reverse. But beginning with the obverse. 2 received 4 points. 3 2A received 9. 4 01A received 6. Obverse 01 02 received 7. 2B received 25 out of a possible 33, 5 making it the high vote-getter -- high-score design. 6 03 received 12. 7 5A received 5. 8 9 04 received 4. 05 received 7. And Moving on to the reverses, which was a little less definitive. Reverse 1 received 5. 10 Reverse 1A received 18, making it the high vote-getter 11 -- 18 out of 33. 12 02 received 2. 13 received 7. 14 received 14. 15 received 1. 16 03 received 4. 04 05 received 17 -- so very close. 06 6A received 15. 7 received 3. 7A And 8 received 1. DR. BROWN: Very good. We will 17 continue now with the clad. So are there any 18 questions or comments from the committee regarding the 19 clad designs? 20 coming from the liaison or our chief of engraving? Hearing none and seeing none, any 21 MR. MENNA: No, sir. 22 DR. BROWN: Okay. That being the case, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 304 1 let us then begin our discussion. 2 fantastic pattern we've had in the past, let's begin 3 again with Dennis Tucker. 4 MR. TUCKER: And continuing that Thank you, Dr. Brown. The 5 portfolio for the half-dollar was harder for me. 6 Dean's earlier question, I tried to focus on the home 7 front. 8 obverses in particular deal with that theme. 9 To Obviously a lot of these designs for the My father was 6 years old when the 10 United States entered the war. 11 older. 12 course his parents, my grandparents, were solidly in 13 the home front generation. 14 And his brothers were They actually served in the military. So everybody was involved. And of Everybody 15 in the family, everybody in America at that time of 16 course was involved in collecting scrap metal. 17 If you're a kid, you know, you're 18 outside watching for airplanes, whether that really 19 helps the military effort or not. 20 course. 21 22 Rationing of But then something I've done is I've looked through old newspapers for references to my www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 305 1 grandparents. 2 And you know, all the ladies back 3 then -- my grandmother and her friends -- they would 4 have benefit luncheons and clothing and food drives. 5 And they would welcome soldiers home if they were home 6 on leave. 7 And there was just wonderful news from 8 that era. 9 that showed that everybody was involved in this war 10 Just small, you know, little hometown news effort. 11 So having said that and just segueing a 12 bit on an unrelated note, for the obverse I really 13 like the motif of Obverse 1. 14 I say 1 I include 1A in that group. 15 And that was -- and when Obverse 1 was the liaison's third 16 preference. 17 take that back. 18 inscription -- righteous strength forged through 19 unity. 20 I actually prefer 1A. No; I'm sorry. I I prefer Obverse 1 with the longer I think that that captures the essence 21 of that home front activity and involvement in the 22 war. The nation had righteous strength. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And it was Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 306 1 forged through being united. 2 I would prefer to see World War II on 3 the shield on Obverse 1 -- so take that from 1A and 4 put that on 1. 5 detailed if 1 ends up being the preference. 6 But anyway, I know you're not that For the reverse this was harder. I 7 think the reverse designs that depend on architectural 8 views of the memorial are not really appropriate. 9 We're doing that elsewhere in this suite of coins. 10 And it doesn't really speak specifically to the home 11 front. 12 So my preference for the reverse is -- 13 strangely enough it's actually Reverse 2. 14 more for the text than for the image. 15 And it's When I first saw Reverse 2 I thought, 16 "Well, that row of houses doesn't really -- that could 17 be anywhere, anytime. 18 It could mean anything." But I think the addition of the text 19 "National unity" in such a big font -- and E. Pluribus 20 Unum, which reinforces the concept of one out of many 21 -- I think that brings together a nice cohesive design 22 when you add it to the obverse. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 307 1 So Reverse 2 was actually my favorite. 2 But Reverse 3, which was the liaison's second 3 preference -- I think again more for the text -- the 4 use of the word "unity" I thought that that had some 5 merit as well. 6 But Reverse 2 combined with Obverse 1 7 or 1A or some combination of those -- those are my 8 choices and my thoughts. 9 thank you, Dr. Brown. 10 Thanks to our liaisons and DR. BROWN: 11 thoughtful comments. 12 remember three minutes. Thank you so much for your Ladies and gentlemen, please John, next? 13 MR. SAUNDERS: 14 MS. WARREN: John Saunders. Hold on. This is 15 Jennifer. Is there someone that has their mic open in 16 the room? Okay. 17 there's an echo. 18 Let me check these people because MR. SAUNDERS: 19 still John Saunders. 20 comments Dennis made. Okay. Well, this is I want to echo a bunch of 21 My brother enlisted in World War II. 22 And he was luckily -- had a good war in England, in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 308 1 France, or in Germany. 2 overseas for three or four years. 3 Wasn't shot at. But he was And my mother, who you'd never -- if 4 you knew her you'd never think of her having a job 5 like this. 6 making machine guns. She went down and got a job in a factory 7 She ground machine gun barrels. So the part of getting the whole -- the 8 unity in the United States together and everybody 9 wanting to chip in and help I thought is a theme 10 that's worth doing. 11 But I'm sorry. I didn't think any of 12 these designs really accomplished that scene. 13 with Dennis. 14 national unity. 15 the houses there as they're meaning anything. 16 I'm I like the legends on the reverse I like that legend. I just don't see So for the obverse design even though 17 I'd like to present the national unity, I like the 18 looks of Design 1 and 1A. 19 with Dennis. 20 And I think I'm kind of I like 1 better. But I think moving World War II over to 21 thing on 1A -- and in terms of reverse is to say I 22 love the legends. I'd like to see the national unity www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 309 1 on one of the reverse designs. 2 But I also think that we -- I think we 3 rejected all the architecture ones. 4 with the stars and the thing that -- personally but I 5 like the -- they all together probably have more votes 6 than the design we picked for the -- or put in favor 7 of for the silver dollar. 8 9 I think we need to give the folks at the memorial at least one coin that has the 10 architectural features on it. 11 I'm in favor of 3 and 7. 12 13 We have that one DR. BROWN: minutes. And so for that reason Thank you so much. Three Moving on to Donald. 14 MR. SCARINCI: So I think this may very 15 well become the commemorative -- the contemporary 16 commemorative dollar coin that has two reverses or the 17 one that has no obverse. 18 So I am not going to vote for any of 19 these obverses. And I would implore people not to 20 support the -- I guess unless this is Hawaii and these 21 planes are Japanese I don't know where this Coin No. 4 22 is going. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 310 1 But the Ozzie and the Harriet view of 2 Reverse 2 -- or the suburbanization of America in the 3 40s maybe -- that's the theme of all the -- of all 4 these houses that are not my reality. 5 My reality is a four-bedroom -- a four- 6 room apartment in Union City -- a three-room 7 apartment. 8 support any of the obverses. I'm sorry. 9 So I think I'm not going to There are not obverses. The reverse I agree. I think someone 10 said it -- I forgot who -- you know, to give the 11 memorial something that depicts the memorial. 12 they like Reverse 3, Reverse 3 is good. 13 good. Reverse 7 is Anything but Reverse 2, please. 14 15 So if DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Turning now to Dean. 16 DR. KOTLOWSKI: Thank you, Mr. 17 Chairman. 18 with this. 19 fought in the war and won a silver and bronze star. 20 And his wife, my grandmother, was a Rosie the Riveter. 21 I've mentioned that before. 22 This is Dean Kotlowski. Again struggling Really briefly, grandson of a person who I also wrote a biography of Paul www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 311 1 McNutt, who headed the war manpower division in World 2 War II. 3 miserable appointment for somebody who had a lot of 4 political prospects. So the home front -- and that was a pretty 5 So all of that is to say that I was 6 looking at the home front. And you know, you could do 7 1. 8 could pair it with -- talking about two reverses, 9 Donald, here. If you're looking at the Obverse 1 and 1A you 10 You could pair it with Reverse 1. And 11 then you'd have a kind of swords and ploughshares type 12 motif. 13 the obverses I was drawn to No. 5. 14 anybody's going to say anything about No. 5. 15 sorry here. 16 17 I'm not necessarily recommending that. But of I don't know if UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 9: But Somebody answer it quickly. 18 DR. KOTLOWSKI: Yeah. This is going to 19 happen. I don't think anybody's going to go for No. 20 5. 21 the work and the factories -- the stuff that was done 22 at home. I think No. 5 brought in the barns and the idea of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 312 1 And I have no idea what to do with the 2 reverse. 3 persuaded that the thing with the eagles and the 4 ribbons -- I might go with that. 5 Right now, the reverse, I'm kind of being And if I do then we do need to have the 6 memorial. And maybe we have Reverse 7. 7 take one of the silver memorials -- like the one with 8 the cross-section view that finished second -- and 9 maybe make that the half-dollar reverse. 10 that strike people? 11 Chairman. 12 13 Just a thought. DR. BROWN: Or maybe we How would Thank you, Mr. Thank you so much. turn now to Peter. 14 DR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Mr. 15 Chairman. 16 has been said here. 17 is my preference currently. 18 So I'll just keep it brief and say that's that. 19 20 21 22 Let's I'm mostly in agreement with a lot of what And the preference for Obverse 1 DR. BROWN: And Reverse 7 as well. Thank you so much. Let's turn now to Art. MR. BERNSTEIN: This is Art Bernstein. In referencing my recommendations I was hoping to say www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 313 1 this is a no-brainer. 2 liaison's preferences -- 5 and 7. 3 Reverse 7. 4 5 But I'm in support of the DR. BROWN: Obverse 5 and Thank you so much. Let's now turn to Dr. Fuller. 6 DR. FULLER: Thank you. I'm thinking a 7 lot about what Donald said. 8 for me because I agree with what you're saying. 9 And so this is difficult Nonetheless I like 2A. There's 10 something about that little boy clutching the flag. 11 Even if you didn't have the legend in there it's very 12 emotional. 13 It makes you think about the sacrifices 14 even if it didn't have the word "sacrifice". 15 price of freedom is not free. 16 powerful statement. 17 The I just think that's a And then with respect to 4 I -- I'm not 18 as -- I guess if I understand you correctly, Donald, 19 you're not sure if that image is historically correct. 20 Nonetheless to see, you know, the woman 21 -- she's sort of waving, you know, the Air Force, you 22 know, wishing them well and, you know, there's farming www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 314 1 going on. 2 boy. There's the homestead. There's a little It underscores the notion of the home front. 3 And then for the reverse I think going 4 with the theme of including people and the home front 5 I would go with 5. 6 7 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Let's turn now to Darla. 8 9 Thank you. MS. JACKSON: Darla Jackson. Thank you. Yes. Hello. This is I am having trouble 10 finding somewhere where I feel like the contributions 11 of everyday Americans is shown here in a way that 12 translates well. 13 So I'm going to just go toward the 14 design that I feel like is going to work beautifully 15 on a coin, which I feel like is Obverse 1. 16 And then in terms of the reverse 17 because of a lot of folks having echoed that we don't 18 have a representation of the monument itself I'm going 19 to go with Reverse 7. 20 I think that this is a nice viewpoint. 21 If you were someone -- an everyday civilian coming to 22 honor these heroes you would be walking down the path www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 315 1 in this way. And so I think the perspective sort of 2 echoes the idea here a bit, which is nice. Thank you. 3 DR. BROWN: Thank you. Kellen? 4 MR. HOARD: Thank you. Kind of in line 5 with the other members of the committee, I was not 6 really again struck by any of the obverse designs 7 here, especially as a representative of the general 8 public. I just didn't see much that spoke to me. 9 In regard to a -- I mean, like, maybe 10 1A. I think it's important to call for World War II 11 there. 12 Harcourt mentioned I understand that's looking at life 13 -- sacrifice, not being free. In regard to the two designs that I think 14 I think it will be ultimately seen as 15 the depressed little boy coin. 16 to, you know, kind of give that impression. 17 airplane flying overhead didn't really strike me 18 either. 19 And so I didn't want And the So I was -- I didn't really have any 20 one that stood out to me there. 21 reverses. 22 Reverse 3 I'd recommend against. Same with the Mostly I'd recommend against some, like www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 316 1 It looks like unity is dead as of 1945 2 to me. It only lasted four years. 3 with that one. 4 So I wouldn't go I do think we should have the monument 5 on one of the coins. 6 recommendation for the reverse just because it's not 7 in any of the other ones. 8 9 So I would say 7 would be my I think it's a nice design. So if I had to a -- I guess my question for the committee generally would be are there any 10 specific designs that you're actually passionate about 11 versus fine with? 12 Because what I've heard so far is 13 mostly, like, "It's okay." 14 and we want it on the coin. 15 ask. 16 pairing. But not much we love it So that's what I would Not only for individual designs but also for 17 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 18 MR. HOARD: Thank you. 19 DR. BROWN: Let's turn to Mike. 20 I think you'll find the answer to that pretty soon. 21 MR. HOARD: Yeah. 22 DR. BROWN: Mike? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 317 1 MR. MORAN: 2 is Mike Moran. 3 is for Peter. Thank you, Dr. Brown. I have one question first. This And this What model B-17 is that? 4 DR. VAN ALFEN: 5 MR. MORAN: 6 DR. VAN ALFEN: It's a G model. G model? Or maybe a late F. 7 They started putting chin turrets on some of the late 8 F models. 9 But definitively a G model. MR. MORAN: Okay. Just so everybody 10 knows, Peter knows a lot about that. 11 think the design on Obverse 1 or 1A -- either one. 12 Seriously. But what does it tell me? I You have to 13 put World War II on there before I can really make an 14 association with it. 15 Maybe I'm missing something there. But 16 it doesn't jump out to me, nor do I think it will jump 17 out to the average person that picks up the coin. 18 The other obverses I -- what can I say 19 about them? 20 Rosie the Riveter theme. 21 it's kind of an ugly design. 22 The 05 -- I get the need to recognize the But I don't think this -- I mean, just, I get it. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 It's in nice Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 318 1 little rectangles there on it. 2 it. 3 But I can do without I don't really have an obverse that I 4 think is appropriate. And I would throw out to you 5 that if there was a point where we should put the 6 victory medal it might be here. 7 Because when I go to the reverse -- and 8 nobody's talked about this -- I'm still doing the clad 9 half-dollar as one that recognizes the sacrifice at 10 home but also the victory that was achieved at the end 11 of the war. 12 And for the reverse I feel like Reverse 13 4 -- commemorating the gold star families because it 14 wasn't all a victory for everyone that came home. 15 put that on the reverse of the victory medal. 16 it made some sense. 17 To me I get the point that we don't have the 18 -- any of the monument structures on any of these 19 coins. 20 You But it really doesn't bother me. But we're going to have some problems 21 with this obverse. 22 you any on that. And I don't know that I can help Oh, lord. I could not get -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 319 1 DR. BROWN: 2 MS. WARREN: 3 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 10: 4 5 Mike, is that it? Mike, you're muted. He's on the phone. MR. MORAN: I'm sorry. I couldn't get 6 the -- turn off the -- the notification came right 7 over the microphone. 8 one because it's my home alarm. 9 Anyway, I'm going to go get that DR. BROWN: Be back. So let me quickly answer 10 the question that Kellen -- now I'm not really someone 11 who typically is in love with a number of things that 12 are sentimental. 13 really bring feeling to me. 14 But there are some things that And I must tell you that Obverse Design 15 2 and 2A reminded me a bit about the commemorative 16 program dealing with the Purple Heart and that saying 17 that all day some, someday all. 18 And there are currently people on the 19 home front who lost. 20 say a reaching out, a symbolism of the lost. 21 22 So to me that's a -- you might And nothing is more sentimental of loss than a little boy holding a flag. I think to me that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 320 1 makes this really that powerful. 2 From the standpoint of the reverse, as 3 much I understand that this is supporting the World 4 War II Memorial, this is not the World War II Memorial 5 Commemorative Program. 6 So I have to be -- as much as I don't 7 have any objection to them, I'm not in fact at a loss 8 for it not being reflected on any of the coins. 9 To me the one that is more reflective 10 of that is actually Reverse 4. 11 quickly to actually Reverse -- yes. 12 And let me speak Reverse 2. I have a different perspective than 13 Donald. 14 fact turned 90, to ask her what was life like in the 15 urban settings and the housing projects. 16 before she even got to be eligible for the housing 17 projects in World War II. 18 I posed a question to my mother, who just in And this was And she says that she can only remember 19 her mother yelling out of the third floor of a tenant 20 saying that the world -- the war was over. 21 22 So their houses did not look anything like in fact to -- so that's not an adequate www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 321 1 representation to me of enough of America, whether 2 you're talking about an -- I actually Googled New York 3 City and its appearance in the 40s and then Chicago in 4 the 40s. 5 And none of them look like that. So to 6 me that was not sufficiently representative if you 7 want to be representative. 8 9 10 So as someone from a military background, the thing that was more powerful was again Obverse 2 or 2A and Reverse 4 -- the gold star. 11 Because again, that was something left 12 with some families at the close of the war on the home 13 front. 14 also loss. 15 entertain comments and questions from members. As much as they saluted victory, there was Please forgive me. 16 DR. FULLER: 17 DR. BROWN: 18 DR. FULLER: We're going to now May I? Yes, please. Just hearing you speak on 19 that I do think that -- what is it, 2? 20 the little boy and then 4 -- because I guess both 21 would represent loss. 22 Obverse 2 with And let me just ask frankly. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Would Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 322 1 that make it too sad then if we sort of have, you 2 know, I mean, or is it just the reality? 3 I'm -- but I agree that they would go together. 4 is that, you know, too sad? 5 DR. BROWN: 6 MR. SAUNDERS: That's what But John? I like Mike's idea of 7 putting the piece on the obverse. And I don't know 8 how we vote for this or when it's appropriate to bring 9 it up. But that seemed like something that if it 10 would work from a design point of view, which I'm sure 11 we'll hear whether it works or not -- but I'd like to 12 see that. 13 And the second thing is while I still 14 favor the monument, the 3 says unity. I'd like it to 15 say national unity. 16 know, concept better. 17 work the word "national" in there I'd really like it a 18 lot better. I like the national unity, you And if there's a way we could 19 DR. BROWN: Donald? 20 MR. SCARINCI: A couple of things. 21 First, this is a commemorative -- in spite of what 22 they're calling it, it's a program that supports the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 323 1 monument; right? 2 MS. ROTONDI: Yes. 3 MR. SCARINCI: Okay. 4 MS. SULLIVAN: The legislation Thank you. 5 specifically indicates that -- the design to be 6 emblematic of the World War II Memorial and the 7 service and sacrifice of American soldiers and 8 civilians during World War II. 9 MR. SCARINCI: And the funds -- 10 MS. SULLIVAN: The funds do; yes. 11 MR. SCARINCI: The funds go to the 13 MS. SULLIVAN: Absolutely. 14 MR. SCARINCI: Okay. 12 memorial? 15 Okay. 16 thing. 17 Silver Obverse 3 design, which is the standing figure. 18 Thank you. That's good. You know, I was thinking the same Someone when they spoke did refer to the You know, and that -- if we could 19 use -- if we could appropriate that image then the 20 coin with no obverse now has an obverse. 21 22 And the other possibility is to go with what, you know, with what Larry was saying, which is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 324 1 if we use the child holding -- raising the flag -- 2 that is emotional. 3 that any work of art can be too sad. 4 And is it too said? DR. FULLER: I don't know Well, I was saying if you 5 have it on both sides -- the gold star and the little 6 boy on either side as well. 7 MR. SCARINCI: I think if we were to 8 use this as the obverse then I think this qualifies as 9 giving the coin with no obverse an obverse. 10 or. 11 the boy holding the flag. Either Either we go with Silver Obverse 3 or we go with 12 But if we go with the boy holding the 13 flag then maybe we can revisit the gold reverse that 14 we selected depicting that flag, which I think just 15 now only got enough votes as a majority for the gold. 16 And then revisit that and maybe choose 17 something more simple as Darla maybe suggested for the 18 gold. 19 some surgery. So there's a way to save this if we want to do 20 DR. BROWN: 21 then Dean and then Peter. 22 MR. TUCKER: We can do so. Dennis and Thank you, Dr. Brown. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 325 1 don't think we need to use the clad half-dollar to 2 represent the idea of sacrifice. 3 the gold five dollar. 4 That's covered with If we go with the rankings that we've 5 voted on already the -- I believe it was Megan who 6 said that the idea was to have the gold coin represent 7 sacrifice, silver represent service, and clad 8 represent the home front. 9 So I think, you know, as compelling as 10 those gold star-related designs might be for the clad 11 I think it's just the right place to have those. 12 I think Obverse 1 for the clad. 13 mean, it's just a cool-looking design. 14 a military medal from the 1930s or 1940s. I It looks like 15 I think that that, you know, if you 16 look at it you think World War II even if the word 17 "World War" -- you know, you think 1940s even if World 18 War II is not there. 19 And another thing I would point is 20 something that Peter mentioned. And I think some 21 people are losing this thought -- is that we do based 22 on our rankings and voting -- we do have designs that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 326 1 show the memorial. 2 They might not show kind of an 3 architectural blueprint view. 4 significant design elements like that canopy of eagles 5 with banners. 6 as towers or walkways. 7 But they show That is as much part of the experience So I wouldn't let that hang -- you 8 know, don't get hung up on that too much I would 9 think. So I really -- I think this concept of 10 sacrifice and gold star families -- not for putting on 11 the clad dollars -- or clad half-dollar. 12 Not every family lost a family member 13 during the war. 14 You know, they had scrap drives. 15 But they all put into the war effort. They sacrificed in a million ways. 16 That was the home front. 17 family member. 18 in. 19 They saved food. They didn't have to lose a Nobody had to die for them to be all So I would say veer away from this 20 concept of sacrifice for the half-dollar. 21 represent the home front. 22 figure out how to do that. Let that And then we just have to Thank you, Dr. Brown. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 327 1 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. 2 DR. KOTLOWSKI: Dean? This is Dean Kotlowski. 3 I really wanted to depict the home front on the coins, 4 especially on the clad. 5 the designs are there to make that possible. 6 And I just don't think that So what I am going to propose here is 7 modification of the three themes. So on the gold we 8 have the theme of sacrifice and the highest form of 9 sacrifice. 10 And then what we have on the silver, 11 which I've revised my views on -- the number one to 12 look at is the theme of service. 13 And then on the clad the theme is 14 victory. And so there you have the World War II 15 service and the liberty; right? 16 taking -- you're moving it over there. 17 Which you're And then you have No. 7 for the reverse 18 as the monument. 19 sword. So you have liberty with that broken And there you have your three themes. 20 Dr. Brown, I love what you said about 21 the little boy and also being very evocative of the 22 Purple Heart. Now that medal was so -- that coin was www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 328 1 so great. You know, the some gave -- all gave some, 2 and some gave all. 3 It's so evocative. It's not being replicated or anywhere 4 reached here I think in the artistic design. 5 think we should just, you know, not try to redo that 6 theme here. 7 So I I think if you have a gold and you have 8 a clad that are both focused on, you know, death and 9 loss then I do think it becomes too somber. 10 11 DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. Turn now to Peter. 12 DR. VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 13 I'm not overly worried about trying to find themes 14 with each one of these -- the metal types -- simply 15 because I don't think that the designs within each 16 group are cohesive enough to try to identify things 17 for each and every one. 18 The one thing I do want to point out 19 was the image of the victory. On the floors of each 20 one of these towers is that victory with the broken 21 sword. 22 embedded in the floors with that design. There's a big bronze medallion essentially www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 329 1 So that broken sword victory also is 2 essentially a representation of an element of the 3 monument as well. 4 clarification more than anything. 5 So that's just a point of DR. BROWN: Understood. Any further 6 comments, questions? 7 additional that you would like to offer us before we 8 score? 9 Holly, do you have anything MS. ROTONDI: You know, I will say I 10 agree. We did not prefer the one showing the housing 11 for the very reasons that several of you mentioned. 12 They did not feel representative, 13 especially out of the Depression. 14 that's the 50s ideal was -- you know, idealistic view 15 of America. 16 of -- so but no; I appreciate all of your feedback. 17 I've learned a lot. 18 19 20 21 22 You know, I think But I don't think that was representative DR. BROWN: Thank you so much. basis then we shall then score. MR. HOARD: Please -- Is there a way to score other designs and incorporate them into this? DR. BROWN: On that I think -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 330 1 MR. SCARINCI: Could we not make the 2 Silver Obverse 3 as a clad obverse? 3 do that? 4 5 DR. VAN ALFEN: There's no way to Maybe just vote first and then see where we are and then -- 6 MR. WEINMAN: And no; people shouldn't 7 -- I think the idea -- and keeping in mind this is 8 meant to be an interest tool. 9 designs as we are and then you can make motions based 10 on that? 11 DR. BROWN: 12 scoresheets. 13 -- for scoring the tally. 14 15 Why don't you score the So again turn in your We'll take a five-minute break -- recess MS. WARREN: It is 3:21. We're going to stop recording. 16 (Off the record.) 17 MS. WARREN: 18 DR. BROWN: 3:27 and we have started. We are back. I recognize 19 Greg Weinman, counsel to the CCAC, to present the 20 results from the scoring sheet. 21 22 MR. WEINMAN: For the gold obverse, Design No. 1 was the high vote-getter with 19 points. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 331 1 1A received a score of 14. 2 of 4. 3 Design 5 received 8. Design 2 received a score Design 2A received 6. 4 Design 4 received 7. And Design 6 received 2. Moving on to the reverses. Reverse 2 received 8. Reverse 1 5 received 1. 6 9. 7 Reverse 7 was the high vote-getter with 28 points out 8 of a possible 33. Reverse 4 received 6. 9 10 Reverse 3 received Reverse 5 received 4. DR. KOTLOWSKI: And Greg, I didn't hear. Reverse 2 was how many? 11 MR. WEINMAN: Reverse 2 was 8 points. 12 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 13 DR. BROWN: 14 DR. KOTLOWSKI: Eight? Thank you. Dean? I'm going to make a 15 motion. I'm going to move -- and I don't have my 16 laptop up so if somebody could open theirs. 17 do the silver victory. I think this is Obverse 3. 18 MR. MORAN: 19 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 20 the clad obverse. 21 And so there it is. 22 Clad Reverse 7. I want to It's 03. Obverse 3, making that That would become the clad obverse. And that would be paired with the And I'm just asking for a motion on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 332 1 this if you like it, if you want to second it, if you 2 want to vote for this. 3 all together. Then we can talk about them But we can at least have an idea -- 4 MR. SCARINCI: 5 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 6 MR. SAUNDERS: 7 MR. MORAN: Mike Moran will second it. 8 DR. BROWN: Okay. 9 I second --- of what -I third it. So the maker of the motion in this case, just for the record, would be 10 Dean. The second in this case -- and please forgive 11 me, Mike, but you're not in the room -- would be John. 12 13 MR. MORAN: me sitting here and pushing the microphone. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 There's a disadvantage to DR. BROWN: question. That tells the story, no Dennis? MR. MORAN: But remember I was the one that brought this up in the discussion. DR. BROWN: We'll make sure the record demonstrates that. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 11: We'll dedicate it to Mike. DR. BROWN: Dennis? You have a comment www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 333 1 on the motion? 2 MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Dr. Brown. 3 This is Dennis Tucker. 4 you're talking about using Silver Obverse 3, okay, and 5 Clad Reverse 7? 6 So just to clarify here -- Dean, I understand what you're saying 7 about having the half-dollar focused on victory. 8 don't think the World War II Memorial is a victory 9 monument. 10 It's a memorial. So for that reason I don't know if 11 that's quite appropriate. 12 half-dollar focused on the home front. 13 14 15 DR. BROWN: I would rather keep the Thank you so much. further comments on the motion? MR. HOARD: Thank you. Any Kellen? Just in general I'm less -- 16 I'm also kind of less tethered to specifically 17 sectioning out themes for each. 18 emblem pivot on this one as well. 19 I I kind of like an But if we limit ourselves to themes -- 20 as I think someone said earlier -- I'm not sure 21 there's anything cohesive enough across or within 22 portfolios to get exactly what we're looking for. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 334 1 I wouldn't base my vote solely on that. 2 3 DR. BROWN: Thank you. Dean, you have additional comments on your motion? 4 DR. KOTLOWSKI: Well, I mean, I think, 5 Dennis, point well taken. 6 the monument -- I think they have different 7 experiences and they interpret it differently. 8 9 I think people who visit Some are definitely going to think about the sacrifice and the loss. And the others are 10 going to meditate that this was a war that was really 11 a righteous war in terms of what the US was fighting 12 against. 13 And it ultimately prevailed. And the architecture of it -- I 14 wouldn't call it triumphant. 15 too much into this. 16 And I don't want to get I think that, you know, we can have 17 these themes and they can be there and we know them. 18 We don't have to publicize it; you know? 19 have to issue a press release and say point one, point 20 two, point three. 21 22 We don't But we know what's going on here. And then thanks to Peter, who shared some photographs with me, I think I was -- I think I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 335 1 prodded you a little bit with your trip. 2 little embarrassed that I didn't go to the monument. 3 And I'm a But you know, there is a representation 4 at that monument of, you know, the World War II medal 5 likeness in the ground. 6 together for, you know, the agency that would benefit 7 from the commemorative coin. 8 9 10 So I do think it fits DR. BROWN: May I suggest that we get some feedback from our engraving leadership? we're talking about again the planchets. 11 MR. COSTELLO: Because Mike? I have absolutely no 12 issue with the obverse -- that silver obverse -- 13 pairing with the clad -- with the reverse. 14 MR. MENNA: And one thing I would like 15 -- this is Joe Menna. 16 special about the one on the right is it's an 17 interpretation of the piece of medal. 18 So isn't the figure enough of a 19 victory? 20 my grandfather's. 21 22 The thing that I think is A victory medal; right? I have one. It's So it's not very a detailed sculpture. You can see in the drawing it's a very detailed www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 336 1 drawing. So I think at this scale it would be really, 2 really nice to see. 3 4 DR. BROWN: Thank you. So John and then Kellen. 5 MR. SAUNDERS: I'd like to ask Dean to 6 consider an amendment to his motion even though I 7 seconded it. 8 it right now. 9 The Obverse 03 -- I was just looking at It says, "They answered the call". If we substituted for that "National 10 Unity", which is what Dennis liked but in the one with 11 the houses I think it would create our theme better. 12 And we don't -- if this was the silver 13 dollar, yes, the issue -- they have to call it 14 inappropriate. 15 think "National unity" instead would be an 16 improvement. 17 18 19 But since this is the half-dollar I DR. BROWN: Dean, do you accept that friendly amendment? DR. KOTLOWSKI: You know, I'm hearing 20 the "mm-hmm" over here. I don't know. 21 no problem with it. 22 into the home front; wouldn't it? I guess I have It would lead us a little bit www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 337 1 2 MR. SAUNDERS: DR. KOTLOWSKI: I'd like to hear maybe a little bit of discussion about it. 5 6 But that's the point. 3 4 Yeah. DR. BROWN: Okay. Then let's then go to Kellen and then to Donald. 7 MR. HOARD: I was hoping to hear 8 thoughts on both the design and this recent change 9 from our liaison. 10 DR. BROWN: Okay. 11 MR. HOARD: If possible. 12 DR. BROWN: Holly? 13 MS. ROTONDI: Actually as you guys were 14 -- I actually just asked Megan, "I wonder if we could 15 change that to "We answered the call". 16 And it would be a reference to the 17 entire nation. 18 thought that would tie it all together to the home 19 front, to the -- you know, to the entire country. 20 21 22 That was sort of my thought. DR. KOTLOWSKI: And I I would regard that as a very friendly amendment. MR. SAUNDERS: That's why you're the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 338 1 liaison. 2 MS. ROTONDI: And the person who's 3 holding the coin can feel that pride. They are part 4 of that answering the call -- their history. 5 DR. KOTLOWSKI: And just to Joe's 6 point, I have my grandfather's World War II medal too. 7 And there is nothing on there that says, "We answered 8 the call". 9 moving beyond, you know, that -- So here it is a reinterpretation and a 10 DR. BROWN: Yes, sir. 11 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 12 MR. SCARINCI: -- classic design. I was going to suggest 13 we do this in two steps. 14 on the general, like, do we agree to do this; right? 15 Step one, let's take a vote And then step two, let's talk about the 16 -- unless we think we could do it all in one step 17 that's fine. 18 do this then we can discuss and debate changing the 19 legend. 20 21 22 But you know, if we have an agreement to DR. BROWN: Well, actually we have the benefit of the maker of the motion accepted -MR. SCARINCI: Who accepted the -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 339 1 right. 2 DR. BROWN: 3 MR. SCARINCI: 4 DR. BROWN: 5 DR. FULLER: 6 we changed "they" to "we"? 7 -- with respect to that. Saved us the discussion. Comment? Who would the "we" be if Who is the "we"? MS. ROTONDI: In my interpretation it 8 would be -- because one of the things about -- that I 9 think is beautiful about the World War II Memorial -- 10 it is to the entire generation. 11 those who served in uniform. 12 generation. 13 It's not to just It is the entire And if I was holding that coin to me 14 that would reflect that. 15 country. 16 invested because they were sacrificing here at home 17 for the purpose of supporting the troops abroad. 18 It would reflect the entire Every man, woman, and child had to be DR. FULLER: Just allow me to follow up 19 though. I just want to make sure I understand. 20 the we -- if someone who, let's say, you know, someone 21 who does not have a direct connection the Second World 22 War through a family member and they're holding it and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 But Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 340 1 they see the "we" -- how does that apply? 2 MS. ROTONDI: Well, if you're -- as a 3 United States citizen or an allied nation it would be 4 -- anyone can look at it. 5 the Allied Forces or the support here at home -- I 6 feel like that would be included in the "we". 7 interpretative. And anyone who was part of 8 DR. FULLER: Okay. 9 MS. WARREN: Dennis was his hand 10 It's raised. 11 MR. MENNA: Out of my lane -- but if 12 I'm really -- kind of like a time machine. 13 generation is speaking to us saying we answered the 14 call? 15 MS. SULLIVAN: 16 DR. BROWN: 17 18 Is it that Oh, I like that. Ladies and gentlemen, we need to move this along. DR. KOTLOWSKI: And Dr. Brown, just I 19 think you've just helped to internationalize this by 20 bringing in allies too. Excuse me. 21 DR. BROWN: 22 MS. WARREN: Okay. Very good. Dennis has his www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 341 1 hand -- sorry. 2 DR. BROWN: 3 MR. TUCKER: Dennis, if it can be -Oh, thank you, Dr. Brown. 4 I had a different motion. 5 because I think the solution that we hit on here would 6 work. 7 But I'm going to table that I like this idea of having Silver 8 Obverse 3 with the legend changed to "We answered the 9 call". 10 I think that does satisfy the home front concern that I had. 11 John, I don't know if we then need to 12 add "National unity" to the reverse. 13 I think this might be sufficient with -- just let that 14 view of the memorial tell the tale. 15 with its amendments has not been seconded I would 16 second it now. 17 DR. BROWN: I think that -- So if this motion Well, just for clarity, the 18 maker of the motion has accepted the amendment as a 19 friendly amendment. 20 conversation on the motion as it is on the table we 21 will now vote. 22 signify by saying "aye". If there's no further All those in favor of the motion www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 342 1 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 2 DR. BROWN: 3 by saying "nay". 4 unanimously. 5 6 Aye. All those opposed, signify Hearing none, the motion passes MR. MORAN: This is Mike. You're brilliant. 7 MR. SCARINCI: 8 motion approved unanimously. 9 DR. BROWN: 10 gentlemen. 11 gold and silver. 12 And Dean had his first Moving forward, ladies and Moving forward. We now need to go to the DR. VAN ALFEN: I would like to move 13 that the -- sorry -- that we go with the high scorers 14 for both gold and silver -- to adopt those designs. 15 And this would be Gold Obverse 3, Gold Reverse 1A, 16 Silver Obverse 2B, and Silver Reverse 1A. 17 18 DR. BROWN: motion? 19 20 21 22 Is there a second for this MR. TUCKER: I second that. Dennis Tucker. DR. BROWN: Dennis Tucker, second. Further discussion on the motion? Hearing none, all www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 343 1 those in favor, aye. 2 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 3 DR. BROWN: 4 Those nay? Hearing none, the motion passes unanimously. 5 6 Aye. MR. SCARINCI: Wow. Whoa. Amazing. Yes. 7 DR. BROWN: Excellent. Very good. At 8 this point if there is no further discussion on this 9 program again we'd like to thank Holly for your 10 leadership. 11 yours as well. 12 And we'd like to thank our Mint staff for Moving on to the next item. And the 13 last item on the agenda is our review of the candidate 14 design for the Congressional Gold Medal commemorating 15 the servicemembers who perished in Afghanistan on 16 August 26, 2021, during the evacuation of citizens of 17 the United States and Afghan allies at the Karzai 18 International Airport, as authorized by Public Law 19 117-72. 20 discussion. 21 22 Once again Megan will lead us through this MS. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Dr. Brown. At 9:44 a.m. on August 26, 2021, an explosion occurred www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 344 1 at the airport at Hamid Karzai International Airport, 2 later confirmed to be a suicide bombing by the ISIS-K 3 terrorist group. 4 Estimates as high as 200 deaths were 5 reported, including 13 United States servicemembers; 6 hundreds more were wounded. 7 August 26th was the single -- deadliest 8 single day of the war in Afghanistan for the United 9 States in more than a decade. 10 These brave men and women served in the 11 United States Marine Corps, the Army, and the Navy and 12 were posthumously awarded the Purple Heart. 13 These American servicemembers went 14 above and beyond the call of duty to protect US 15 citizens and our allies during the extremely dangerous 16 situation as the Taliban regained control over 17 Afghanistan. 18 They exemplified extreme bravery and 19 valor against armed enemy combatants. 20 their lives. 21 22 They dedicated And their heroism deserves great honor. In developing the designs, the United States Mint worked with congressionally-designated www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 345 1 representatives from the American Gold Star Mothers, 2 the Gold Star Wives, and the Special Operations 3 Association of America. 4 will be indicated. 5 And their design preferences None of those members are able to 6 attend today due to some scheduling conflicts. They 7 did want me to express that one of their purposes here 8 was not only to highlight the sacrifice but to really 9 highlight the service, the importance of what they 10 were doing, and the cause for which they lost their 11 lives. 12 So moving into the designs, Obverse 13 Design 1 depicts US servicemembers aiding in the 14 humanitarian efforts during the evacuation at Hamid 15 Karzai International Airport. 16 inscriptions are August 26, 2021, "Kabul", and 17 "Afghanistan". 18 The additional Obverse Design 2 depicts a 19 servicemember carrying a young child with an incused 20 C-17 in flight. 21 representing the transition from danger to safety. 22 The inscriptions are "Kabul" and August 26, 2021. The pair walk into an incused field, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 346 1 Obverse Designs 3 and 3A depict 2 servicemembers in silhouette standing on a wall. 3 central inscription "Kabul" reveals an airborne C-130. 4 Design 3 features the additional inscriptions Act of 5 Congress and 2021. 6 stars, representing the 13 servicemembers lost. 7 The Design 3A features 13 incused Obverses 4 and 4A depict a 8 servicemember carrying a young child draped in an 9 American flag against a backdrop of the inscription 10 "Kabul", a depiction of the mountains of Kabul, and a 11 silhouetted C-17. 12 Design 4 additionally features 13 13 stars. Design 4A additionally features a second C-17 14 on a runway and the added inscription Act of Congress 15 2021. 16 Obverse Design 5 depicts servicemembers 17 assisting local citizens during the humanitarian 18 mission in Afghanistan. 19 the background against the mountains of Kabul. 20 additional inscriptions are Kabul, Act of Congress, 21 and 2021. 22 An open C-17 can be seen in Obverse Design 6 depicts five www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 The Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 347 1 servicemembers in silhouette standing over a crowd of 2 people waiting to board a C-17 with the mountains of 3 Kabul in the background. 4 There are 13 stars incused over their 5 heads, representing 13 fallen. 6 obverse of all three liaisons. 7 This is the preferred Moving into the reverse designs. All 8 of the reverse designs feature the names of the fallen 9 service members. 10 In terms of the order of the names, if 11 they are not in alphabetical order the names were just 12 placed in an order so as to best fit the design. 13 There is no other ranking indicated here by these 14 names. 15 Reverse Design 1 features the names of 16 the fallen servicemembers with the letters spelling 17 "heroes" highlighted. 18 name of the fallen servicemembers next to the Purple 19 Heart. 20 2021. 21 22 Reverse Design 2 depicts the The additional inscription is Act of Congress Reverse Design 3 features the name of the fallen service members alongside a young girl www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 348 1 placing an American flag. 2 Reverse Design 4 features the names of 3 the fallen servicemembers surrounded by 13 columns, 4 eagles, and flags. 5 Reverse Design 5 features the names of 6 the fallen servicemembers above an American flag with 7 a helmet, boots, and dog tags. 8 mountain range representing the mountains of Kabul are 9 depicted above. 10 The Purple Heart and a And Reverse Design 6 features the names 11 of the fallen servicemembers and an American flag 12 surrounded by a wreath. 13 preferred design of all three liaisons. 14 completes the portfolio. 15 16 DR. BROWN: Reverse Design 6 is the And that Thank you so much. Are there any technical -- please, Peter? 17 DR. VAN ALFEN: I have a question for 18 Joe about Obverse 6. 19 figures on Obverse 6 -- they couldn't necessarily be 20 incused; would they? 21 they looking? 22 How could the silhouetted Or how would they -- how are MR. MENNA: This is Joseph Menna. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 The Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 349 1 figures would be in a graduated way incused more fully 2 at the top. 3 that would eventually become flush with the field. 4 they would fade into the field. And that incuse would be on an include 5 DR. VAN ALFEN: 6 DR. BROWN: 7 MR. SCARINCI: 8 All right. So Thank you. Donald? Megan, was this -- so Obverse 6 and Reverse 6 was unanimous among the -- 9 MS. SULLIVAN: It was -- 10 MR. SCARINCI: -- families? 11 MS. SULLIVAN: -- unanimous among -- 12 not among the families. 13 families. 14 representative from the Gold Star Mothers, the Gold 15 Star Wives, and the Special Operations of America. 16 We didn't work with the We were directed by Congress to work with a So people who are touched by this 17 particular issue but not specifically related to these 18 13 servicemembers. 19 MR. SCARINCI: Mr. Chairman, do you 20 think it's appropriate -- I would like to make a 21 motion. 22 would like to make a motion accepting Obverse 6 and I don't think we need to discuss this. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 350 1 Reverse 6 since it was unanimous. 2 3 DR. BROWN: motion? 4 5 DR. VAN ALFEN: 8 9 Second. Peter van Alfen. 6 7 Is there a second for that DR. BROWN: Any discussion about the MR. HOARD: I would speak just against motion? that motion just for the -- just for our pre- 10 discussion because I have some other designs that I 11 think would be important to discuss as well. 12 DR. BROWN: Okay. Any further 13 discussion for the motion? Hearing none, all those in 14 favor of the motion please signify by saying "aye". 15 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: Aye. 16 DR. BROWN: Those opposed? 17 MR. HOARD: Nay. 18 DR. BROWN: Okay. The motion carries. 19 I must share with you all that the only reservation I 20 have is the fact that we haven't seen the Purple Heart 21 commemorative coin. 22 it's one -- can be colorized. I just wish this one -- since That's it. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 351 1 MS. SULLIVAN: 2 Congressional Gold Medal. 3 DR. BROWN: 4 MS. SULLIVAN: 5 DR. BROWN: 6 MS. SULLIVAN: 7 DR. BROWN: 8 only kidding. Okay. 9 that is done. Very good. Excuse me, sir. It is a I understand. They can't colorize -- Can't put purple on gold? Not on the gold medals. Not like the Lakers. Thank you. Okay. I'm Stand corrected. And based on where 10 we are, are there any additional comments or motions 11 from the members at this time? 12 MR. SCARINCI: So Can I just applaud the 13 service and the first meeting of our three new 14 members? 15 all three members making a very valuable contribution 16 today. I think all three -- I think we all observed 17 And they're really hitting the ground 18 running and making some really, really terrific 19 observations, great comments, and a great motion. 20 And you know, and a great, you know, 21 and I understand. 22 for all of us. And you know, I think I'm speaking You know, we appreciate the three www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 352 1 people. 2 3 DR. BROWN: motion. Well, that sounds like a Is there a second? 4 MR. HOARD: Second. 5 DR. BROWN: All those in favor, aye? 6 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 7 DR. BROWN: Aye. Opposed, nay? 8 it for the record to put it unanimous. 9 much. We just want Thank you so John? 10 MR. SAUNDERS: Is there any way that we 11 should score this last one? 12 But maybe the artist would like to know whether we -- 13 the merit and maybe points that we -- you got a lot of 14 points on this one even though you didn't win it. 15 16 DR. BROWN: We made a decision, yeah. So that's been our procedure in the past so we'll do that. 17 DR. KOTLOWSKI: 18 DR. BROWN: 19 DR. KOTLOWSKI: Dr. Brown? Dean? I just want to commend 20 the people who were not here in person and shared with 21 us and helped us especially through that last one 22 remotely. Mike, I do feel a little guilty. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 You did Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 353 1 raise that idea originally to go with the clad. 2 problem is you weren't here and you didn't see the 3 sidebar conversations -- this was a good idea. 4 sorry about that. 5 The So We'll catch you next time. MR. SCARINCI: 6 Don't be absent next time. 7 tremendously. Hey, Mike and Dennis? We miss you. 8 MR. TUCKER: 9 MR. SCARINCI: I miss you Yes. We'll see you next time. 10 MR. MORAN: We'll be in touch. 11 DR. BROWN: Okay. Ladies and 12 gentlemen, if all discussion has been concluded then 13 that was the last order of business for today. 14 like to thank my colleagues, the CCAC members, and the 15 Mint staff for their dedication and attendance today. 16 I'd Once again I would also like to thank 17 those members of the public and from the numismatic 18 community who have sent in questions and 19 recommendations to the CCAC. 20 so through the email address of info@ccac.gov. 21 Your communications reflect the 22 And again, they've done continued interest in America's coinage and numismatic www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 354 1 projects. 2 The next meeting -- the next CCAC 3 meeting, public meeting, is set for September 2023. 4 All upcoming meetings will be announced in the federal 5 registry several weeks prior to the public meeting. 6 will now entertain a motion to adjourn. I 7 MR. BERNSTEIN: Art Bernstein so moves. 8 DR. KOTLOWSKI: Dean second. 9 DR. BROWN: 10 Okay. All those in favor signify by saying "aye". 11 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 12 DR. BROWN: Aye. Anyone saying nay? While 13 my vision and hearing is not what it used to be, it 14 seems to me that the ayes have it. 15 16 MS. WARREN: We are adjourned. The meeting is ending at 3:50 p.m. 17 (Whereupon, the meeting concluded at 18 3:50 p.m.) 19 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 355 1 2 CERTIFICATE OF DEPOSITION OFFICER I, MATTHEW YANCEY, the officer before whom 3 the foregoing proceedings were taken, do hereby 4 certify that any witness(es) in the foregoing 5 proceedings, prior to testifying, were duly sworn; 6 that the proceedings were recorded by me and 7 thereafter reduced to typewriting by a qualified 8 transcriptionist; that said digital audio recording of 9 said proceedings are a true and accurate record to the 10 best of my knowledge, skills, and ability; that I am 11 neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any 12 of the parties to the action in which this was taken; 13 and, further, that I am not a relative or employee of 14 any counsel or attorney employed by the parties 15 hereto, nor financially or otherwise interested in the 16 outcome of this action. <%29511,Signature%> 17 MATTHEW YANCEY 18 Notary Public in and for the 19 District of Columbia 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 18, 2023 Page 356 1 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER 2 I, LEANN SULLIVAN, do hereby certify that 3 this transcript was prepared from the digital audio 4 recording of the foregoing proceeding, that said 5 transcript is a true and accurate record of the 6 proceedings to the best of my knowledge, skills, and 7 ability; that I am neither counsel for, related to, 8 nor employed by any of the parties to the action in 9 which this was taken; and, further, that I am not a 10 relative or employee of any counsel or attorney 11 employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or 12 otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. 13 14 <%27211,Signature%> 15 LEANN SULLIVAN 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting [& - 18] April 18, 2023 Page 1 & & 5:3 0 0 90:13 001 209:13 212:16 002 212:16 01 34:9 35:20 37:21 39:13 40:19 41:7 46:21 53:11 57:12,12 78:10 78:15 148:20 171:11 303:1 01a 40:19,21 41:7,13,17 148:20 303:2 02 34:15 37:22 303:2,12 03 116:19 117:1,7 149:2 149:22 150:2 212:18,18 232:20 277:2 283:19 303:6 303:12 331:18 336:7 04 34:19 35:1 38:14 57:20 66:14 70:6 78:14 289:19 303:6,12 05 34:19 148:20 303:6 303:13 317:19 05a 42:21 148:20 284:10 06 303:13 07 35:2,9 66:6 66:15 78:2 116:3,6,20,22 171:11 08 56:11 1 1 23:13 38:1 41:10 61:12 65:6 66:10 67:18 68:4,8 70:9,18 71:3 74:18,22 75:10 75:11 77:10 79:1 80:18 81:22 83:20 84:15,15 87:19 87:20 97:15,21 98:1 99:1,6,16 100:7,13 102:12 103:4,6 103:12 109:4 112:11 115:9 116:1 121:14 121:16 125:10 125:16,17 131:7,9,16 135:1,1 140:15 142:4 143:7 144:12 152:12 152:19,22 153:17,21 154:2,19 155:5 155:5 161:20 162:3 166:11 171:15,15 173:22,22 174:10,10 216:7 218:3 224:21,21 236:9,10,16,16 236:16,22 238:3 253:7 254:14,16 256:2,9,10 257:20 258:5 260:8,15,18 262:8 275:11 281:19 282:1 285:1 286:7 297:14 298:5 303:9,15,15 305:13,14,15 305:17 306:3,4 306:5 307:6 308:18,19 311:7,7,10 312:16 314:15 317:11 325:12 330:22 331:4,5 345:13 347:15 10 153:2 319:3 100 208:14 253:14 103 208:14,16 10:01 97:5 10:40 130:17 10:46 130:20 10th 15:6 11 76:2 97:11 98:4,5 152:14 281:19 332:20 117-162 249:9 117-163 25:21 26:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 117-62 249:12 117-72 343:19 117-97 196:9 196:14 11:09 151:19 11:13 152:1 11:59 196:1 12 76:2 217:14 271:7 282:6 303:6 12:49 244:13 12:54 248:22 13 26:22 97:18 97:21 221:18 260:5 281:21 344:5 346:5,6 346:12 347:4,5 348:3 349:18 130 346:3 14 203:19 209:4 303:14 331:1 15 5:4 14:20 25:13 208:12 282:5 303:14 16 131:14,19 131:22 152:19 154:9,13,19 249:19 282:4 160 234:12 17 131:12 261:8,9 263:8 303:13 317:3 345:20 346:11 346:13,18 347:2 18 1:6 6:4 131:17,21 Meeting [18 - 21] 136:19 154:13 223:6 247:14 282:2 303:10 303:11 1822 26:17 1840s 76:9 1849 26:18 1862 27:14 39:18 1896 27:7 19 330:22 1930s 325:14 1940s 325:14 325:17 1941 259:21 262:4 263:4 283:8 1941-1945 255:9 256:21 262:22 1942 226:11 1944 197:12 1945 217:14 259:22 262:5 263:5 283:8 316:1 1946 198:18 217:15 195,000 198:6 196 5:12 1963 102:9 118:14 1977 202:3 1978 220:8 1986 81:6 1:20 244:4,14 245:11,13 April 18, 2023 Page 2 1:30 248:20,21 1:35 248:20 1:37 249:2 1:40 248:17 1a 134:17 143:7,10,12 144:9,12 145:13 146:9 152:13,19 154:19 155:15 155:16,19 175:17,21 254:14,17 256:2,10 257:20 258:6 260:9,16,19 271:5 273:13 278:5 280:22 282:1 283:11 283:14 285:1,6 286:7 291:5 298:11,17,18 298:18 303:10 305:14,16 306:3 307:7 308:18,21 311:7 315:10 317:11 331:1 342:15,16 1st 8:11 2 2 36:3 38:1 39:16 40:19 41:18 65:14 74:19 82:11 84:3,16 97:17 98:3 100:7,14 112:11 119:8 131:8,17,17,21 134:11 137:1,3 137:18,22 141:17 146:7 148:6 152:12 152:14,22 159:6 198:18 216:13 217:14 218:9 253:20 253:21 254:20 256:11,17 258:8,15 260:21,22 262:15 263:20 265:16 270:17 270:20 272:1,6 273:8 275:11 275:13 276:22 277:4 278:18 280:8,9,14,17 281:19 282:1,4 282:16,21 284:16,17 287:2 291:13 293:1 296:17 297:3,13,21 298:5 299:9 303:12 306:13 306:15 307:1,6 310:2,13 319:15 320:11 321:10,19,19 331:1,3,5,10 331:11 345:18 347:17 2.12.45-3.2.46 217:22 218:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 2/12/1945-3/... 217:3 20 15:10 16:9 60:9 97:19,22 131:18,21 136:20 152:20 153:22 154:12 154:21 161:19 247:14 200 344:4 2003 25:13 2004 250:4 251:17 2014 208:12 2018 13:13 14:3 2019 199:2 2020 13:12 2021 5:19 9:2 13:16 19:15 267:10 343:16 343:22 345:16 345:22 346:5 346:15,21 347:20 2022 14:19 217:3 218:7,13 20220 1:13 2023 1:6 6:4 15:3 23:13,13 25:10 37:7 354:3 2024 33:20 20th 25:10 60:6 250:7 252:15 21 11:5 97:15 97:22 201:16 Meeting [22 - 4] 22 153:18,21 161:20 23 5:5 15:3 25:10 24 198:1 210:11 292:15 296:13 249 5:15 25 98:2 247:14 303:4 26 5:8,19 9:2 11:5 154:2 204:14,18 223:4 343:16 343:22 345:16 345:22 26th 344:7 27 281:20 27211 356:14 28 23:13 131:10,14 154:7 331:7 28th 8:11 29 250:4 29511 355:16 2:16 281:12 2:40 302:13 2:48 302:16 2a 256:11 260:21 261:4 287:2 291:1 292:22 297:4 303:3 313:9 319:15 321:10 331:2 2b 256:11,20 283:4,9,14 285:1,7,7 April 18, 2023 Page 3 287:2,4 290:20 291:2,2,14 294:2 298:9 299:9 300:16 303:4 342:16 2nd 1:12 3 3 36:7 38:3 39:20 42:3,12 61:22 73:20 90:14 98:3,3 101:20 103:20 103:22 104:6 105:6,7,11 111:16,18,21 112:1 113:5,5 113:20 114:1,4 115:14 131:9 131:17,21 132:20 134:12 134:12 136:2 136:17,18 137:8 138:10 139:17 145:7 146:9 149:21 152:13,22 154:13 158:16 158:21 159:6 159:14 160:18 160:20 163:9 163:10 164:8 164:11,12 165:7 179:13 181:22 182:10 182:14 185:11 185:14 186:2 186:22 187:1 205:3,11 216:21,21 218:14 219:14 231:12,13,16 231:16,16,21 232:7,21 235:4 235:5 236:4,4 236:8,8 237:2 237:2,6,7,17 237:17,22 238:1,4,9,12 238:13 242:1 243:10,10,15 243:15 254:4 255:4,10 257:1 258:8,19,21 262:20 263:1 264:10 265:17 270:16 271:19 272:6,22 274:4 274:10,20,20 274:21,21 276:7,9,11 277:2 278:3 280:22 281:20 282:4,5 287:1 288:14 290:9 303:14 307:2 309:11 310:12 310:12 315:22 322:14 323:17 324:10 330:2 331:5,17,19 333:4 341:8 342:15 346:1,4 347:21 30 73:6 97:11 97:14 98:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 152:14 154:17 210:2 246:14 31 197:13 32 28:9 33 131:11 136:19 152:11 152:15,19,20 154:3,8,17 281:18 303:4 303:11 331:8 343 5:19 3:21 330:14 3:27 330:17 3:50 354:16,18 3a 255:4,9,11 258:21 265:17 276:13 282:5 346:1,5 3s 111:22 4 4 34:20 36:12 36:18 38:7 40:19 41:1 60:18,19 63:21 63:21 64:15,15 68:5 70:10,11 70:11 71:4,4 71:14 77:18 78:7 79:1,2,3 88:6,7 97:17 98:4,5 100:15 103:7,7 104:9 104:17,22 107:5,9 108:6 108:13,14 109:16,18 112:5,11,12 Meeting [4 - 6888th] 113:1,2 114:10 116:9,11 118:5 125:9 131:8,8 131:10,13,14 133:20 134:5,6 135:17 137:1,3 137:18 138:18 140:10 141:4 141:19 142:17 143:11 144:2 146:7 148:6,7 148:15 149:18 149:21 152:14 152:15 154:7 154:17 155:6,7 155:7 156:8,8 164:11,19 175:17,21 176:22 177:10 178:3,4 183:9 186:22 189:8 193:21 254:8 255:12 257:6 258:22 259:1 261:7 263:2 271:2,16 276:7 276:9 281:19 281:21 284:15 285:13,14 303:2,6,12 309:21 313:17 318:13 320:10 321:10,20 331:2,2,6,6 346:7,12 348:2 4,048 253:12 400,000 249:20 April 18, 2023 Page 4 40s 204:17,17 310:3 321:3,4 442nd 299:13 45 204:20 4a 346:7,13 5 5 38:15 40:1,6 40:9,19 42:16 42:18 43:3,6 43:19 60:19,22 97:18 105:1,21 106:8,9,22 107:5,7 108:6 108:7,8,13,18 109:8 110:11 112:6 113:5,21 114:1,16 118:5 118:6 131:12 131:18,20 134:5,17 135:19 136:5 136:20 141:6 146:9 149:10 152:15 153:1 154:12 155:6,7 155:19 156:9 158:16 159:1 159:11 160:18 160:22 161:4 162:18 163:17 164:13,16,19 164:19 166:6 176:22 177:10 178:3,4,6 181:22 182:4 183:9 185:10 185:11,12,13 187:1,10 189:8 193:21 255:15 257:10,16,17 259:6 261:13 263:7 277:8 280:20 282:6 284:15 285:13 285:14,14,18 287:10,13,16 287:21 288:14 288:19 290:12 291:18 293:11 294:14 295:11 303:7,9 311:13 311:14,20,20 313:2,2 314:5 331:3,6 346:16 348:5 5.85 246:14 50 188:8,14 189:9 190:22 201:12,16 223:6 50,000 210:22 50s 329:14 54 28:3 30:18 55 292:15 5833637 1:21 5a 42:16 43:4 43:19 44:1 134:17,18 139:2,15 140:1 145:10,11 153:2 257:10 257:17 288:14 303:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 6 6 5:3 38:20 40:19 41:4 131:13,19 138:6 152:16 152:16 170:8 217:12 231:14 235:6,15 237:8 259:8,10,16 261:22 262:5 284:15 287:10 287:22 289:4 295:11,12,20 303:2 304:9 331:2,3,6 346:22 348:10 348:12,18,19 349:8,8,22 350:1 6,000 221:16 221:19 60s 227:16 624,000 246:14 65 39:19 65,000 198:3 6888 208:5 6888th 2:18 5:11 8:17 196:7,16 208:3 208:5,13,19 209:1,10,11,12 209:22 210:4 210:20 211:3 212:17,21 213:3,4 214:7 231:18 246:18 Meeting [6a - accomplishments] 6a 259:8,13,15 284:15 285:14 287:10,16,21 289:4 292:9 293:17 295:12 303:14 7 7 36:22 39:4,10 40:1,7 63:21 64:5,11,13 74:19 79:2 81:4,4 86:12 86:14,14 88:10 97:17,19,22 98:4,4 99:6 102:11 106:3,9 106:22 107:7 108:8 112:11 112:12,18 113:2 115:1 116:9,9 118:21 121:12 122:1 125:15 130:1 131:13,18,22 153:1,22 154:8 154:13 161:19 161:19 171:21 174:1 217:19 219:4 259:18 259:22 263:10 263:13 284:17 303:2,6,13,14 309:11 310:12 312:6,17 313:2 313:3 314:19 316:5 327:17 331:2,7,22 April 18, 2023 Page 5 333:5 70 27:1,3 700 27:22 38:13 70s 227:16 750 127:14 7a 259:18 260:1 303:14 8 8 35:10,15 37:7 40:13 61:3 65:18 74:11,20 75:11 79:2 82:11 97:18,20 98:5 101:6 105:8,11 131:16,19 177:1 260:2 303:15 331:3,5 331:11 80 267:14 801 1:11 817 197:13 824 197:13 85 201:13 855 204:16,18 224:1 8:06 1:7 6:5 9 9 19:1,11 22:3 153:1 303:3 311:16 331:6 9,000 203:17 90 320:14 91 54:1 99.99 210:11 9:44 343:22 9th 1:11 a a.m. 1:7 6:7 196:1 343:22 abhorrent 139:14 abilities 27:16 ability 31:12 114:21 355:10 356:7 able 18:8 33:3 48:11 52:4 55:18 86:6,18 91:1,3 93:5 127:14 163:13 163:14 187:18 195:2 201:2 214:3 245:18 289:12 292:3 345:5 ably 295:5,9 abolition 28:4 abolitionist 26:14 above 35:22 36:4 226:4,6 250:16 256:3 288:21 294:21 344:14 348:6,9 abroad 218:12 339:17 absence 300:20 absent 353:6 absolutely 61:7 150:7 323:13 335:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 abstaining 23:21 academy 15:14 accept 158:3,8 162:10 171:13 336:17 acceptable 46:15 88:8 271:2 accepted 338:21,22 341:18 accepting 349:22 access 28:11 85:12 86:6 accessibility 85:11 accessible 22:21 85:9 86:8,8 87:2,2 110:8 162:22 accompany 56:3 accomplish 91:2 291:8 300:15 accomplished 208:16 293:14 308:12 accomplishing 29:9 accomplishm... 282:20 300:16 accomplishm... 156:15 225:17 250:14 300:17 Meeting [accuracy - adjunct] accuracy 69:14 70:5 122:22 241:19 accurate 109:18 123:7 212:20 355:9 356:5 accurately 37:19 achieve 235:1 242:18 achieved 318:10 achievement 207:18,21 209:7 229:15 acknowledge 13:10 acre 28:9 act 26:11,11,12 101:9 217:3 218:7,12 222:13 268:3 346:4,14,20 347:19 action 74:14 80:15,21 82:21 83:21,22 84:8 94:12,14,19 109:14 238:4 355:12,16 356:8,12 activate 54:22 activated 54:10 54:20 active 19:12 28:15 112:21 202:4 221:20 April 18, 2023 Page 6 240:1 241:1 activities 296:19 activity 305:21 acts 238:6 actual 93:3 146:20,22 226:19 actually 11:14 46:20 48:10 60:19 80:14,20 81:12 85:20 90:9 97:16 109:4,20 110:13,21 112:18 117:15 117:15 123:3 124:10 138:10 144:9,13,19 145:3,12,18,21 148:15 162:21 163:8 170:14 170:16 171:6,9 179:10,12 185:18 194:3 227:20,22 232:7 239:10 242:6 244:20 245:4 267:8,10 267:17 273:1 273:12 274:19 276:6 278:10 278:11 295:11 296:17,21 298:10 300:9 304:11 305:16 306:13 307:1 316:10 320:10 320:11 321:2 337:13,14 338:20 ad 287:2 adams 197:19 198:1 204:4,10 204:11 208:17 210:21 211:7 216:8,22 217:13,18 219:15 221:2 223:4 224:9 226:10 233:7 233:11,14 236:13 239:6 adar 289:21 add 18:17 23:5 98:7 125:6 128:16 144:3 184:7 224:6 244:4 281:1 306:22 341:12 added 346:14 adding 84:21 142:13 addition 34:22 83:16 179:9 279:18 306:18 additional 27:3 36:9,15 37:5 37:14 39:2,15 39:17,20 40:4 40:15 42:1,18 42:22 89:1 92:16 118:10 142:12 146:12 217:4,16,21 218:13,20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 240:7 242:7,9 253:16 254:2,6 254:11,15 255:1,8 256:7 256:20 257:4 258:3,16 259:4 259:11,13,21 260:14,16 261:1,4,10,19 262:4,13,19,22 263:4 279:8,10 298:14 301:14 329:7 334:3 345:15 346:4 346:20 347:19 351:10 additionally 6:12 14:1 15:16 51:18 230:9 256:9,17 257:16 258:5 279:13 346:12 346:13 address 13:7 229:1 353:20 addressing 218:17 adds 69:20 141:10 adequate 320:22 adequately 48:18 adjourn 354:6 adjourned 354:14 adjunct 15:13 Meeting [adjust - allies] adjust 189:4,4 301:8,11 adjusted 84:12 153:19 189:2,5 adjustments 209:5 administering 16:13 administrating 19:19 administrative 235:9 admit 177:6 adopt 185:11 342:14 adopted 60:4 adopting 164:10 advance 229:1 advancing 29:9 advantage 93:8 advantages 101:22 advisory 6:3 18:2 21:17 25:12 34:3 advocate 3:6 12:16 199:10 aerial 259:6 aesthetically 145:15 265:3 affairs 2:12,19 10:17 11:18,19 18:21 affected 59:18 afghan 9:3 343:17 April 18, 2023 Page 7 afghanistan 2:16 5:18 9:1 11:5 343:15 344:8,17 345:17 346:18 afraid 275:5 africa 52:17 african 27:18 28:12 31:3 39:8,9 52:16 197:14 200:13 200:15 202:21 203:1 221:14 221:17,19 222:12,20 age 18:22 19:1 208:13 223:6 aged 41:19 agency 335:6 agenda 8:7 24:4 25:18 92:2 343:13 agent 200:12 ages 201:16 208:11 261:17 agile 208:15 aging 69:5 94:6 ago 24:6 59:3 60:10 105:16 180:22 202:6 271:7 agree 82:11 85:21 92:4 106:22 122:4 126:16 135:15 141:8 146:5 149:1 165:5,6 166:8 178:13 215:4 273:4 275:3,5 285:8 287:12 290:20 310:9 313:8 322:3 329:10 338:14 agreed 205:2 222:7,9 223:1 agreeing 273:12 agreement 160:2 167:2 203:13 222:10 312:15 338:17 agricultural 262:9 agriculture 261:17 ah 160:10 ahead 29:16 33:14 121:10 161:20 193:11 198:8 249:3 275:21 aided 45:8 aiding 345:13 air 202:1 256:8 256:14 257:12 258:4,17 313:21 airborne 346:3 airplane 315:17 airplanes 304:18 airport 9:3 205:17 206:3 343:18 344:1,1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 345:15 alarm 319:8 alfen 3:21 7:17 7:18 23:18,18 46:19 47:4,11 47:18 67:9,10 106:12 107:20 140:9 164:6,18 169:15 173:13 174:12 175:18 175:18 183:22 185:9,13 186:18 189:12 236:6,7 270:5 270:9,12 273:19 296:7 296:10,11 301:1 312:14 317:4,6 328:12 330:4 342:12 348:17 349:5 350:4,5 align 238:18 279:7 aligned 100:5 144:8 294:1 alignment 29:4 allay 228:22 allegiance 17:7 17:9 20:20,22 allegorical 120:22 256:12 294:7 allied 197:3 340:3,5 allies 9:3 340:20 343:17 344:15 Meeting [allocate - appears] allocate 170:19 allocation 170:22 allow 18:16,17 23:4 162:9 213:15 339:18 allowed 301:22 allows 67:3 alluding 37:14 alongside 347:22 alphabetical 347:11 alternative 179:13 amazing 18:9 29:20 30:14 205:14 237:21 297:7,12 298:2 343:5 ambiguity 152:17 154:11 154:18 ambivalent 131:16 amend 167:1 171:18 176:8 amendment 158:3,8 171:9 171:14 178:19 336:6,18 337:21 341:18 341:19 amendments 341:15 america 30:13 32:2 33:21 52:17 60:10 April 18, 2023 Page 8 84:20 120:13 120:15 234:15 255:17 304:15 310:2 321:1 329:15 345:3 349:15 america's 261:15 353:22 american 3:15 7:2 18:9 19:15 24:16 27:19 28:16 32:17 37:8 39:5,9,9 108:20 119:22 187:14 197:14 200:14,15 202:21 203:1 207:19 209:7 218:16 221:15 221:17,19 222:12,20 234:16 249:16 250:8,17 251:15 284:8 294:19 299:14 323:7 344:13 345:1 346:9 348:1,6,11 american's 260:6 americans 28:12 73:9 129:18 187:15 233:20 250:13 253:12 269:18 314:11 amos 4:7 9:11 amount 62:11 210:19 213:7 292:8 amplified 220:14 analogous 14:16 analogy 14:14 233:1 analysis 73:17 73:20 75:5 anchor 257:16 andrew 69:9 angle 129:6 angles 62:10 annette 32:6 anniversary 25:11 252:15 announce 6:11 announced 136:16 354:4 anonymous 229:4 anonymously 229:12 answer 168:16 212:3,10 213:5 219:21 245:1 264:6,8 311:17 316:20 319:9 answered 206:17 254:3 257:5 267:3 336:8 337:15 338:7 340:13 341:8 answering 338:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 answers 84:15 168:18 anybody 62:2 93:5 157:1 anybody's 115:8 311:14 311:19 anymore 130:8 181:9 anytime 306:17 anyway 77:2 90:5 107:22 140:5,19 194:17 270:22 292:16 298:21 300:14 306:4 319:7 apart 36:4 128:21 apartment 310:6,7 apex 129:6,6 apo 217:18 apologies 194:6 296:8 apologize 98:11 217:7 244:18 245:4 appealed 61:22 appealing 106:20 146:10 appear 49:8 139:2 275:8 appearance 321:3 appeared 68:3 appears 40:22 159:17 195:4 Meeting [appears - artistic] 244:1 appellations 268:17 applaud 351:12 apples 42:6 applicability 278:9 applicable 208:3,4 209:1 209:10,22 210:20 212:16 212:21,21 application 22:19 apply 340:1 appointed 13:13 14:3 15:3,5 appointment 311:3 appreciate 31:19 43:12 56:9 63:14 64:10 73:13 85:3,5 96:13 104:13 117:17 181:10 199:21 205:7 214:11 235:21 240:11 245:2 329:16 351:22 appreciated 206:3 242:10 appreciation 64:15 93:22 195:9 250:13 April 18, 2023 Page 9 appreciative 214:9 approach 64:1 approachable 40:22 approaches 275:10 appropriate 29:15 62:11 100:21 134:1 158:8 185:5 191:15 306:8 318:4 322:8 323:19 333:11 349:20 appropriately 88:12 90:12 252:12 approval 5:5 8:10 23:11,17 approve 23:15 162:2 171:6 173:22 176:21 approved 51:11 207:16 342:8 approximately 27:3 198:3,5 253:14 april 1:6 6:4 15:5 25:10 250:4 apryl 2:17 11:8 araminta 26:16 arc 106:17,21 107:3 architectural 129:10 306:7 309:10 326:3 architecture 298:3 309:3 334:13 areas 203:12 207:10 222:10 argument 166:14 arlington 203:20 arm 37:10,10 129:1,3 216:8 263:7 arm's 37:13 armed 27:20 38:11 249:19 256:13 257:3 258:12 300:13 344:19 arms 35:21 63:3 129:3 140:18 293:3 armstead 239:10 army 3:9 5:11 8:16 11:10 12:14,19 27:12 27:13,15 38:16 38:22 39:17 40:3 117:11 196:6,16 197:1 197:6,9 199:2 199:14 200:2,3 200:6,9,11 217:2,17 220:2 220:6,8,12,16 221:15 222:12 223:7 226:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 226:12 228:12 240:21 256:15 258:18 344:11 army's 198:8 arrived 223:12 art 15:12 22:21 23:16,19 44:4 44:5 58:18 63:18,19 67:3 71:3,4 78:15 81:5 104:13,14 137:20,21 141:8 161:7 165:8 168:21 170:1 172:22 182:22 219:12 219:13 229:3 236:22 237:4,5 263:18 274:22 275:1 288:3,4 312:20,21 324:3 354:7 arthur 3:12 6:18 articles 19:2 203:8,8 artifacts 24:13 artist 48:16,21 49:12 53:12,13 53:17 121:14 147:6 208:16 212:19 225:7 226:7 247:17 286:18 292:4 352:12 artist's 226:18 artistic 67:22 159:15 213:17 Meeting [artistic - aye] 287:11 298:3 328:4 artistically 78:3 82:4 121:7 122:18 125:7 184:20 285:16 296:2 artistry 62:1 artists 62:5 66:13 94:4 210:6 214:6 264:18 arts 4:4 7:20 13:14 15:4,14 16:17 19:22 44:9 artwork 212:14,15 229:8 asantewaa 53:5 asian 299:15 asked 56:1 150:19 247:13 337:14 asking 168:5 211:12,15 331:22 aspect 28:16 106:5 112:2 113:12 116:17 238:5 273:3 291:19 aspects 112:17 213:9,10 298:3 aspirational 124:5 assign 65:10 April 18, 2023 Page 10 assigned 5:11 8:17 11:11 12:14 196:7,16 208:17 assignment 197:15 assignments 226:13 assistance 255:22 assisting 346:17 association 19:7,15 317:14 345:3 assume 16:15 19:20 44:10 46:3 assure 25:6 athena 220:1,1 220:6,12 222:13 228:12 atlantic 256:6 256:10 257:12 259:20 289:12 289:15 291:3 attached 134:14 attempted 46:3 228:10 attend 345:6 attendance 9:15 353:15 attendees 2:2 attending 195:10 attention 49:8 61:5 73:13 75:6,8 86:10 87:6 88:11 114:15,22 128:1 attentive 68:22 attorney 355:14 356:10 attracted 137:22 275:9 282:15 287:10 288:11 attraction 237:7 attractive 102:12 106:20 107:2 138:7 179:17 232:3 236:9 238:14 auburn 28:4 29:8 42:7 55:14 58:21 59:3 73:7 93:2 127:9 128:2 audio 355:8 356:3 august 5:19 9:1 11:5 343:16,22 344:7 345:16 345:22 austere 197:22 authentic 32:8 authentication 92:22 authored 19:2 authority 220:11 authorization 25:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 authorized 25:20 29:6 196:8 249:8 250:22 343:18 autobiograph... 45:10 automated 154:4 247:9 automobile 59:15 auxiliary 226:12 available 54:3 119:22 199:15 average 137:6 187:11 317:17 avoid 111:20 award 204:5 awarded 208:5 257:3 344:12 awards 196:14 aware 9:6 300:20 awesome 93:14 128:12 250:18 awfully 22:13 awkward 292:11 aye 23:22 24:1 47:22 48:1 167:12,13 169:15,17,19 172:16,17 173:5,7 175:10 175:11 176:14 176:15 182:17 182:18 184:2,4 194:21,22 Meeting [aye - belabor] 243:20,21 341:22 342:1 343:1,2 350:14 350:15 352:5,6 354:10,11 ayes 354:14 b b 263:8 317:3 back 13:18 22:3 35:3 43:9 65:4 76:14 97:6,7 98:6 131:2 132:19 137:16 142:8 146:17 148:9 152:5,7 153:15 153:16 154:15 161:3 180:21 191:8 192:19 193:8 195:21 198:13 211:14 226:3 230:2 241:4 248:17 248:17 249:5 268:19 276:14 281:12,14 290:21 292:17 293:13 294:9 294:18 300:9 302:16,18 305:2,17 319:8 330:18 backdrop 346:9 background 35:6,13 36:14 38:8 41:20 April 18, 2023 Page 11 47:5 58:1 60:16 65:22 107:15 109:20 117:4 180:18 210:2 216:18 251:12 257:8 259:11 263:9 266:6 287:18 321:9 346:19 347:3 backgrounds 200:17 backlog 198:8 backlogs 198:12 backstory 240:15 bad 49:10 101:9 188:13 284:10 bags 246:21,22 balance 100:22 287:19 baldacchino 256:3 257:21 bandanna 168:9 bang 188:15 bank 52:18 53:3,4,5,8 bankruptcy 55:13 banner 260:4 banners 326:5 barely 97:17 barns 311:20 barrels 308:6 barriers 157:18,22 239:13 barring 70:6 153:7 base 204:9 242:13 334:1 baseball 24:8,9 24:15,15 233:2 233:2 based 48:19 51:11 86:6 90:14 92:17 150:16 193:22 194:4 198:5 202:16 207:22 230:3 325:21 330:9 351:9 basement 76:12 bases 95:7 basic 112:19 basically 79:10 80:7 95:12 122:11 124:6 168:14 190:10 basis 207:11 248:15 302:8 329:19 basketball 14:17 battalion 5:12 8:18 196:8,17 197:12,17,19 198:22 204:4 204:15 216:20 217:5 218:17 219:7 225:6,10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 battalions 229:14 battery 292:14 battle 251:15 beacon 28:13 bear 17:6,8 20:19,21 beat 81:5 beautiful 64:9 82:4,4 83:14 114:16 115:2 159:19 187:21 273:2 293:5 339:9 beautifully 314:14 beauty 85:3 86:13 157:4 beckon 82:18 beckoning 81:2 becoming 128:1 bedroom 310:5 beg 55:13 began 97:11 118:4 120:2 begging 55:8 beginning 237:2 253:6 303:1 beginnings 83:22 behalf 13:3 18:18 23:5 31:6,19 244:16 301:17 belabor 130:7 Meeting [believe - boneza] believe 8:6 11:14 13:3 25:14 47:9 50:12 56:8 85:8 90:12 100:8 122:21 147:5 148:5 156:8 164:11 203:12 205:6 290:20 325:5 believed 120:14 beneath 257:21 benefit 99:14 213:17,19 234:3 305:4 335:6 338:21 benefits 202:4 benjamin 194:14 bequeathed 31:2 berkeley 286:12 bernstein 3:12 6:18,19 23:16 23:16 44:5,5 44:12,15 45:12 63:19,19 104:14,14 105:10 137:21 137:22 161:8 168:21,22 170:1,2 171:16 171:20 172:1,4 172:6 182:22 183:1 219:13 219:13 220:13 April 18, 2023 Page 12 220:17 237:5,5 263:19 275:1,1 288:4,4 312:21 312:21 354:7,7 best 34:7 72:16 87:16 134:3 135:19 136:5 137:5 140:11 146:2 240:12 256:1 271:15 292:8 347:12 355:10 356:6 better 44:20 58:19 70:10,12 91:17 116:10 117:1 120:13 125:9 151:8 164:13 165:7 166:10 184:10 212:1 247:12 278:6 284:11 295:12 308:19 322:16,18 336:11 beyond 78:12 93:11,11,22 125:16 126:21 135:7 145:19 179:16 203:4 338:9 344:14 biases 117:21 bicentennial 2:15 3:4 5:7 8:13 11:2 12:11 25:20 26:10,12 big 35:22 36:4 83:7 145:6 161:19 188:15 246:22 269:2 306:19 328:21 bigger 139:17 bike 229:6,7 biography 45:4 45:5 58:20 60:11 310:22 birmingham 196:19 197:21 198:10 223:13 birth 26:12 201:4 bisected 115:6 bit 32:5,15 58:20 60:4 61:1 68:4 77:22 78:21 80:10,21 82:11 82:15,22 85:7 100:10,13 101:12 107:7,9 108:18 114:18 116:9 117:3 120:9 131:6 136:2,22 137:3 141:18,21 142:19 144:6 147:13,17,17 156:18 157:14 157:20 179:19 180:19 183:3 214:22 244:22 264:13 267:17 274:5 286:10 287:11 288:1 288:20 290:19 293:2,8 300:15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 301:9 305:12 315:2 319:15 335:1 336:21 337:4 black 31:8 38:18 52:16 117:4 200:19 blacks 54:8 blair 53:3 blank 124:16 blocks 145:11 blown 144:9 blows 149:4 blueprint 326:3 board 15:16 19:6 31:19 211:15 235:10 241:3 347:2 boarded 198:19 boat 35:13 48:13 109:17 116:15 123:2 boats 38:8 166:20 bodied 192:9 body 248:2 bold 63:1 108:17 141:5 boldest 142:18 bolt 283:21 bolts 283:21 bomber 263:8 bombing 344:2 bonded 250:20 boneza 2:8 10:7 Meeting [book - brown] book 44:22 224:10 230:21 268:14,15,15 bookend 111:1 books 190:17 268:12 boots 348:7 border 263:9 borer 2:7 10:2 10:3 33:15 boring 77:22 272:5 277:16 born 26:15 73:5 bother 318:19 bothered 66:17 bothers 156:18 bottom 111:5 150:9 bought 189:9 box 139:18 271:12 boxes 216:8 218:4 227:16 boy 260:22 313:10 314:2 315:15 319:22 321:20 324:6 324:11,12 327:21 bradford 3:9 12:19 45:4 154:4 199:13 224:5,6,9,15 bradford's 45:10 braford 247:9 April 18, 2023 Page 13 brainer 104:1 271:20 273:1 275:3 276:4 313:1 branch 254:6 254:10 255:14 256:13 258:11 284:7 branches 258:21 277:19 brat 200:2 brave 108:17 233:20 344:10 braved 26:21 bravery 344:18 breadth 73:11 break 79:10,16 80:13 97:2 195:21,21 281:9 330:12 breaker 246:12 breakfast 64:20 105:14 105:15 breaking 36:4 66:22 102:4 157:18,22 brendan 2:19 11:18 brevity 85:4 86:13 157:4 bridge 35:21 brief 133:19 211:8 312:18 briefly 149:16 310:18 brighter 58:1 brilliance 268:19 311:20 61:10,10 332:17 brilliant 103:3 brown 1:5 2:3 184:18 342:6 6:2,7,20 7:1,4 bring 49:7 7:7,10,13,16 319:13 322:8 7:19,22 8:3,3 bringing 81:11 9:13,18,21 148:3 340:20 10:2,4,7,10,13 brings 84:5 10:16,20 11:1 144:12 165:4 11:8,14,17,21 190:14 306:21 12:2 16:8 broad 188:10 18:16 19:10 301:4 20:1 23:4,19 broader 157:20 24:2 26:6 250:10 29:15,17 30:3 brokaw 268:14 43:10,11 44:4 broke 94:16 44:11,13 45:13 137:14 246:12 46:18 47:16,19 broken 39:21 47:21 48:2 79:18 102:3 49:17 51:3,9 157:7 179:22 53:21 56:19 283:22 284:1,4 57:4,7,9 58:4 284:7 327:18 63:13 64:17,19 328:20 329:1 66:20 67:8,10 bronze 210:11 68:14 70:14 234:12,13 72:18,20 75:17 254:22 255:5 79:4 83:2 85:2 256:18 258:9 87:5,8 88:16 259:3 260:13 89:1,4,5,7,8,14 262:1,2,12 90:6 91:5 92:1 274:13 283:2 92:11,13 96:12 296:13 297:8 97:6,7 98:13 310:19 328:21 98:15,16,21 brother 307:21 99:2,6,12,16 brothers 102:18 104:12 304:10 105:12,17,18 brought 110:12 106:10,12 144:17 184:11 108:10 109:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting [brown - buck] 112:7 114:5,6 115:19 117:8 118:17,20 120:16,17,18 121:1,6,9,10 122:2,4,5 123:10 124:18 125:13,20 127:5 128:5,14 128:15 129:13 129:15,16 130:9 131:2 132:1,5,9,14 133:7,12 135:11 136:6 136:12,15 137:19 138:16 140:7,9 141:1 141:13 142:14 142:16 143:21 143:22 146:4 148:6,16 149:9 149:12 150:13 151:10,15,22 152:3,7 153:5 153:6,9 154:22 155:2,12,17,20 155:22 156:3 158:2,6,10 159:4 160:13 160:14 161:6 162:6,12,16 163:22 165:2 165:19 166:1 166:21 167:4 167:14,17,20 168:16,19 169:1,3,5,7,9 April 18, 2023 Page 14 169:11,14,16 169:18,20 170:6,10 171:12,19,22 172:3,5,7,10 172:14,18,21 173:2,4,6,8,10 173:12,14,16 173:20 174:3,5 174:8,10,13,17 174:19 175:8 175:12,15,19 176:1,4,7,12 176:16,20 177:5,8,12,18 177:22 178:11 178:18 179:1,5 180:6 181:10 181:14,15,17 182:5,15,19,22 183:2,6,11,13 183:15,17,19 183:21 184:1,3 184:5,8,22 185:4,12,15,19 186:3,15,20,21 187:4,7,19 189:11,15 191:2 193:13 193:18 194:1,6 194:18 195:1,4 195:19 196:3 196:13 205:18 206:6,8,9 211:9 213:6,14 213:22 214:3 214:11,13 215:22 216:2 219:9 220:18 224:4,8,14,16 225:21 226:2 227:3,7 228:16 228:21 229:21 232:10 233:22 235:20 236:1,5 236:20 237:4,9 237:10,19 238:10,16 240:2 241:8,11 241:13 242:3,6 243:5,7,16,18 243:19,22 244:12,15,19 245:6,12,17 246:3,4 248:8 248:13,21 249:3,5,11 252:21 263:15 264:4,8 265:8 265:19 266:22 268:7 269:21 270:5,8,10,13 270:15,19 271:18 272:7 273:17,19 274:22 275:14 276:1,3,18 277:12 279:4 281:2,14 282:9 282:14 283:16 284:3,20 285:19 288:2 289:5 290:17 290:18 292:18 293:21 296:4,8 298:7 299:1,20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 300:2,3,6,22 301:13 302:7 302:18 303:16 303:22 304:4 307:9,10 309:12 310:14 312:12,19 313:4 314:6 315:3 316:17 316:19,22 317:1 319:1,9 321:17 322:5 322:19 324:20 324:22 326:22 327:1,20 328:10,12 329:5,18,22 330:11,18 331:13 332:8 332:14,18,22 333:2,13 334:2 335:8 336:3,17 337:5,10,12 338:10,20 339:2,4 340:16 340:18,21 341:2,3,17 342:2,9,17,21 343:3,7,21 348:15 349:6 350:2,6,12,16 350:18 351:3,5 351:7 352:2,5 352:7,15,17,18 353:11 354:9 354:12 buck 188:15 Meeting [bucktown - ccac] bucktown 59:16 budget 110:1 180:2 buffalo 59:9 210:4,7,9,12 build 163:8 building 76:8 built 76:13 251:14 bullion 298:20 bunch 307:19 burdock 38:18 buried 198:16 203:17,19,22 230:17 busby 286:12 business 15:1 23:10 353:13 bust 80:11,14 busts 77:21 80:20 busy 82:15 148:21,22 289:18 buy 180:2 280:3,4 c c 2:1 3:1 4:1 5:1 6:1 37:21 37:21 38:14 39:13 261:8,9 345:20 346:3 346:11,13,18 347:2 call 5:3,3 6:2 6:17 98:11 April 18, 2023 Page 15 167:18 172:21 182:21,22 254:3 257:5 285:6 315:10 334:14 336:8 336:13 337:15 338:4,8 340:14 341:9 344:14 called 9:16 128:6,7 168:4 228:8 268:16 calling 191:9 322:22 camp 22:8 campus 60:13 canada 53:4 cancellation 217:13 candidate 5:6,9 5:13,16 8:13 8:15,19,21 25:19 26:2 28:17 29:3 196:5,12 249:7 249:10 281:4 343:13 candidates 50:18 113:3 214:14 candidly 211:16 canopy 256:3 257:21 326:4 canvas 143:1 capable 268:4 268:6 cape 59:22 captivating 141:6 capture 147:7 147:8 225:3,15 227:1 captured 63:1 143:4 captures 223:20 305:20 care 22:8 28:7 28:11 41:9,21 54:7 280:7 286:6 cared 42:7 55:13 120:8 careful 89:22 carefully 288:19 caribbean 52:17 carlton 3:7 12:17 199:11 200:4 205:15 205:15 carolina 27:22 38:13 39:14 127:15 carried 54:19 carrier 119:7 216:17 carries 48:3 175:13 176:17 350:18 carry 225:5 carrying 38:3 115:22 236:13 345:19 346:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 case 46:6 57:21 72:10,12 108:5 115:8 132:18 133:14 193:5 193:16 195:20 213:14 234:8 234:21 265:2 295:10 297:17 303:22 332:9 332:10 cases 122:22 cast 192:3 catalyst 22:21 catch 353:4 catches 157:15 category 276:5 catherine 53:3 60:11 cause 55:21,22 250:20 345:10 causes 28:6 250:10 cca 13:4 24:21 ccac 1:1 2:3,12 2:13 5:4 8:5,9 8:12 9:5 10:18 10:21 12:22 13:12,15,16,22 14:2,2,10,13 16:12,16 18:18 19:17,21 22:12 22:20 23:5,11 24:6,19 25:3,9 25:13 52:6 86:2 97:8 131:3 152:9 214:16 242:12 244:16 281:15 Meeting [ccac - choice] 302:19 330:19 353:14,19 354:2 ccac's 14:18 ccac.gov. 25:5 353:20 ccac.org 25:4 ceiling 218:20 246:22 297:16 celebrate 81:16 104:15 celebration 93:19 cemetery 203:20,22 censoring 247:11 cent 188:8 189:9 190:22 centennial 118:15 center 3:3 12:11 29:7,12 30:2 31:21 35:17 36:20 40:11 41:2 42:14 43:4,6 43:19 59:14 60:3 center's 43:22 centered 96:3 256:6 257:11 258:2 central 5:12 8:17 88:14 196:7,16 197:17 216:20 217:5 219:6 April 18, 2023 Page 16 282:17 346:3 cents 90:5 188:14 century 60:6 250:7 265:21 ceo 2:22 12:8 certain 31:13 certainly 30:18 67:6 71:3 87:3 93:12 126:19 156:10 184:8 187:19 242:20 certificate 355:1 356:1 certify 355:4 356:2 chain 37:12 39:21 117:6 chains 36:4 102:3,4,9 119:4 157:7 179:19,22 chair 8:5 13:10 14:14 24:19 47:12 52:2 75:16 83:5 85:3 112:9 127:3 130:8 133:17 135:10 141:3 169:20 236:4 238:17 243:18 273:16 283:15 288:1 296:5 chairman 3:7 12:17 52:12 57:1 58:3,7 60:16 63:12 92:11 100:3 108:12 118:11 133:18 156:5 180:8 199:12 214:19 230:14 236:7 245:10 268:9 272:10 275:16 285:22 289:8 310:17 312:11,15 349:19 chairperson 2:3 43:10 challenge 50:15,16,19 challenges 34:12 challenging 49:5,6 272:1 275:20 championship 14:17,19 change 78:20 79:21 110:12 170:22 337:8 337:15 changed 266:7 266:7 339:6 341:8 changes 221:1 changing 79:20 160:2 197:4 261:16 338:18 chapter 86:16 characterize 119:11 characterized 28:14 54:17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 charge 65:2,4 200:11 charging 136:15 charity 197:18 204:4,11 208:17 210:21 211:7 216:8,22 217:12,17 221:2 223:4 224:9 226:10 233:7,11,14 check 226:19 307:16 checking 109:17 cherry 38:18 chest 247:20 chicago 321:3 chief 2:9 10:10 25:21 34:6 87:15 94:3 121:19 303:20 child 324:1 339:15 345:19 346:8 children 240:16 chin 317:7 chip 308:9 choice 78:9 91:21 116:20 126:4 140:11 156:21 165:11 166:11,11 201:4 274:9 275:13 Meeting [choices - close] choices 91:20 91:20 135:18 148:19 161:14 170:4 270:18 273:16 307:8 choose 49:18 85:20 86:17 171:1 241:16 274:6 275:20 284:16 324:16 chooses 49:21 chose 69:12 115:2 239:19 290:22 291:1 299:9 chosen 197:19 301:7 christa 194:15 chronology 29:4 269:7 church 31:4,8 76:6 chute 76:17 cincinnati 29:7 60:3 circle 128:10 circles 228:13 circularity 62:9 circulating 24:22 circumscribed 260:12 262:11 circumstances 268:4 citizen 124:7 340:3 April 18, 2023 Page 17 citizens 6:3 9:2 18:1 21:16 25:11 55:14 261:17 343:16 344:15 346:17 city 24:11 55:14 294:21 310:6 321:3 civil 27:12,20 28:2,11,22 29:2 38:1,8,11 38:22 39:1,2,6 40:3,4,6,16,20 60:7 100:20 101:16 102:6 104:16,20,21 106:4,18 107:6 109:9 110:4,9 110:14,17 111:6,13 112:2 112:6,14,16 116:13,16 117:17 120:7 122:10,11,11 124:12 125:18 132:12 157:9 166:7,15,17 186:6,8,10 188:19 190:5 193:4 civilian 314:21 civilians 249:17 323:8 clad 37:16,18 39:12 50:21,22 82:7 86:7 90:3 98:20 99:21 103:7 104:5 105:21 106:18 122:1 136:16 137:8 149:2,19 150:3 154:6,7 154:7 155:5 156:7 162:18 177:1,2,11,16 177:17,18,20 178:3 181:21 185:10 193:21 249:14 260:8,8 260:21 261:7 261:13,22 262:7,8,15,20 263:2,7,10 269:5,18 272:12,18 274:7 303:17 303:19 318:8 325:1,7,10,12 326:11,11 327:4,13 328:8 330:2 331:20 331:20,22 333:5 335:13 353:1 clarification 89:2 90:7 108:4 177:15 229:20 270:6 329:4 clarify 43:18 160:5 286:2 333:3 clarifying 155:18 clarity 341:17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 clasped 70:21 84:17 clasping 35:21 135:22 class 226:11 228:8,14 classic 285:3,4 338:11 classrooms 267:2,9,10 clean 82:18 103:10,10,11 104:11 166:8 293:18 clear 30:21 56:6 82:22 134:13 138:4 152:12,18 154:1,7,16 165:17 172:8 204:19 302:22 cleared 198:7 198:11 clearer 111:4 clearing 60:16 clearly 64:2 68:19 77:12 81:10 127:1 128:21 221:1,2 240:4 clinton's 60:11 clipart 179:19 close 34:20 66:18 136:20 144:4 146:19 153:22 156:22 158:17 165:9 165:10,16,17 Meeting [close - colorize] 200:3 219:5 230:22 241:5 303:13 321:12 closed 54:22 closely 34:5 77:11,13,17 87:14 97:22 154:12 251:20 clothing 123:8 305:4 clubmobile 230:20 clue 45:20 clutching 263:8 313:10 clutter 166:18 292:9 cluttered 71:19 coal 76:17 coalesce 45:21 coast 258:17 coffin 271:8 coherent 67:1 cohesive 306:21 328:16 333:21 coin 2:15 3:4 4:7,8 5:8,14 8:14,20 9:10 9:12 11:3 12:12,22 16:19 18:1 24:7 25:20 26:11 29:1 31:9 37:8 45:19 52:14 56:4 58:15 61:19 68:2 69:2,2 70:1 April 18, 2023 Page 18 71:6,17 72:11 75:11 77:15 80:3 87:15 101:1 104:2,15 112:15 113:7 115:3 125:6 129:8,9,11 134:2,4 138:2 138:3,19,22 139:8 140:5,12 141:7 142:1 145:14 147:8 148:21 151:1 157:10,15 159:11,13,17 161:2,10,15 162:22 178:7 180:5 184:15 184:20 187:21 191:10,11,20 192:8 194:14 195:15 202:12 202:13,14 203:10,14 204:1,13 205:6 207:5,7 214:10 229:2,6 233:5 249:8 252:2 253:1 256:1 265:22 269:7 270:17 274:2 280:4,5,10,13 281:1,5 286:21 289:20,22 290:2 291:11 291:21 292:5 300:14 309:9 309:16,21 314:15 315:15 316:14 317:17 323:20 324:9 325:6 327:22 335:7 338:3 339:13 350:21 coin's 282:18 coinable 265:1 coinage 6:3 14:5 18:2 21:16 25:12 52:18 53:1,8 58:9 64:8 353:22 coinages 47:14 coins 20:12 22:6,10 24:22 30:12,20 31:10 31:13 32:10 37:18 45:18 48:10 67:5 71:9,16 73:15 77:21 85:9 93:17 102:1 110:1 123:6 124:21 145:7 151:8 156:13 157:3 159:11 163:5 180:3,9 182:9 209:11 210:10 233:16 249:13,14,14 264:19 269:1 284:8 285:4 295:14 306:9 316:5 318:19 320:8 327:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 colin 210:4 collaborate 208:7 collaboration 23:6 72:5 collaborative 125:21 colleagues 6:16 13:20 14:8 57:18 85:4 102:16,19 118:9 134:9 146:6 166:3 298:8 353:14 collecting 22:4 22:5 234:12 304:16 collection 24:13 collective 202:17 231:22 232:19 collectively 204:6 collectivity 135:3 collector 19:11 180:5 231:13 collectors 93:11 college 14:17 201:14 colonel 204:17 215:14 219:20 236:12 240:4 color 32:20 colorize 351:4 Meeting [colorized - committee] colorized 350:22 columbia 355:19 columns 297:8 348:3 combahee 27:21 38:9,12 39:3,14,15 40:5,11 107:10 190:8,18 combat 296:15 combatants 344:19 combination 75:11 86:12 116:7 298:6 307:7 combined 218:10 307:6 combining 139:7 come 16:1 37:6 39:18 62:6 63:15 65:4 66:19 72:16 76:22 80:22 85:3,5 98:6 125:12 162:20 195:12,21 207:4 214:7 228:19 235:8 239:5 248:17 266:21 268:12 286:10 comes 49:3 61:16 73:8 106:8 129:19 April 18, 2023 Page 19 143:20 171:11 174:22 181:21 comfortable 123:13 130:4 191:7,9,11,20 236:3 comforts 194:12 coming 97:6 190:17 201:17 230:2 266:15 280:19,21 303:20 314:21 comm 222:17 command 228:3 commander 197:20 204:5 204:11,15 223:19 225:6 225:11 commanding 228:1 commemorate 31:22 233:19 commemorat... 5:17 8:22 11:4 318:13 343:14 commemorat... 253:22 commemorat... 2:15 3:4 5:7,14 8:14,20 11:3 12:12,22 24:8 24:22 25:20 26:10 72:11 75:21 81:7 194:13 195:15 205:6 210:10 249:8 251:3,18 252:2 253:1 265:22 279:17 281:5 285:4 309:15,16 319:15 320:5 322:21 335:7 350:21 commemorat... 50:21 194:15 194:16 commend 352:19 commendation 199:1 226:8 comment 75:21 94:10,22 123:20 158:12 160:5,16 161:9 161:16 187:4 189:18 191:8 191:15 194:9 235:4,5 238:7 241:6,9 299:6 299:19 332:22 339:4 commentary 158:13 300:9 300:21 comments 23:14 51:16,19 56:20 58:7,13 63:14 67:16 72:15 73:20 78:22 85:4 87:13 88:17,19 89:2 92:1,13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 92:16 94:22 96:10 102:19 118:10 122:5 122:20 142:14 146:6,9,12 148:18 150:15 151:11,13 162:7 167:6 178:11 181:12 189:13 190:1 193:22 194:19 205:16,20 207:22 225:21 230:3,8 233:12 237:1 238:15 240:7 269:22 270:2 273:20 279:9,10 281:2 298:8,15 299:21 301:2 301:14 302:7 303:18 307:11 307:20 321:15 329:6 333:14 334:3 351:10 351:19 commission 44:9 190:20 208:8 210:15 251:15 commissioned 210:22 commitment 250:8 254:1 committed 210:14 committee 6:4 6:8,15 15:15 Meeting [committee - conditions] 18:2 21:17 22:20 23:11 25:12 43:12,13 48:5,7 49:1,16 49:17,21 51:10 51:15 53:16 66:10 67:4 72:3 73:1 83:7 88:20 89:15 90:10,13,15,20 90:21 92:19 96:14 101:3 117:9 130:10 132:15,18 133:12 135:11 139:14 146:12 146:14,17 148:9 150:15 155:3 167:9 190:20 191:16 191:18 199:21 206:10,11 210:15 219:10 219:11 225:22 228:17 230:1,5 230:7 243:10 243:14 245:6 263:16 265:9 265:20 281:3,3 286:1 298:15 303:18 315:5 316:9 committee's 49:7 73:16 90:17 208:8 255:22 265:10 committees 34:3 87:11 139:21 common 79:22 79:22 250:9,20 267:16 communed 72:2 communicate 129:22 151:8 163:12 communicati... 2:20 11:22 222:14 223:19 communicati... 353:21 communities 262:16 community 19:13 24:21 41:15 42:10 43:1 353:18 comparatively 82:12 compare 70:5 compared 87:3 188:22 comparison 115:11 compelling 39:7 81:3 82:18,22 106:15 112:3 144:21 163:14 180:1 232:4 238:14 294:3 295:15 296:21 325:9 complete 32:11 189:20,20 April 18, 2023 Page 20 completed 14:16 completely 135:16 158:18 161:22 178:13 280:8 completes 84:15 230:17 255:18 257:17 260:7 263:14 348:14 completing 230:22 complex 71:14 compliment 62:7 component 107:6 components 239:18 composition 68:2 128:17 137:13 293:12 compositional 128:17 comprehensive 24:14 compressed 265:3 compromise 91:2 116:7 139:3,22 computer 136:15 conceived 58:17 261:3 concept 94:10 96:3,7 104:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 119:12 235:16 235:17 306:20 322:16 326:9 326:20 conceptually 293:15 concern 70:7 74:1 75:14 89:14,16 107:8 108:1,19 115:16 178:1 194:17 208:11 300:21 341:10 concerned 67:20 69:21 70:4 139:6 164:10 299:10 300:19 concerning 210:21 concerns 202:17 229:1,1 293:11 294:14 301:6 concerted 34:12 concluded 99:18 195:8 353:12 354:17 concludes 43:8 219:8 conclusion 192:18 214:7 conclusive 281:18 282:1,7 282:7 conditions 197:22 Meeting [conductor - continued] conductor 27:8 28:21 35:4,11 36:17 190:3 conference 1:12 confess 59:2 279:5 296:5 confidence 41:3 confidently 35:3 confirm 9:14 confirmed 344:2 conflicts 345:6 conformed 70:12 confused 136:1 183:3 congratulatio... 18:1,17 21:16 23:5 congress 207:15 217:3 218:7,12 222:13 346:5 346:14,20 347:19 349:13 congress's 209:2 congressional 2:16,17 5:10 5:17 8:15,22 11:3,9 12:13 196:5,15 201:21 203:4 207:16 208:19 229:2,8,17 231:3 234:5,7 234:12,18 235:18 283:2 343:14 351:2 congressiona... 344:22 congruity 164:21 179:16 conjunction 145:1 connect 79:9 79:16 95:18 connected 91:19,20,21 connecting 254:22 255:6 259:3 connection 9:9 27:10 35:8 40:11 68:11 74:6,17 86:19 140:16 149:6 239:6 280:3 339:21 connections 59:11 60:8 connectivity 135:4 connects 37:3 260:13 262:12 consensus 46:4 142:17 144:1 148:7 221:22 223:1 consequences 111:9,9 conservative 161:1 April 18, 2023 Page 21 consider 47:14 51:12,19 53:16 88:20 145:6 148:9 159:11 160:1 162:8 168:11 170:2 195:16 213:7 235:11,21 240:8 242:4 247:17 263:16 272:5 336:6 consideration 51:14 56:10,16 56:18 57:20 135:9 162:9 189:13 228:18 230:6 270:1 274:7 287:7 considerations 50:6 230:1 245:16 considered 45:5 188:7 247:6,17 considering 113:9 consisted 200:14 consistent 54:12 77:5 205:9 284:8 consoles 194:16 constellation 35:22 36:5 constituencies 280:5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 constituency 280:22 constituent 139:3 234:7 constituent's 265:11 constitution 16:22 17:3 20:14,17 119:15,18 construct 60:12 cont'd 3:1 4:1 contact 34:12 235:10 contained 200:16 contains 253:12 contemporary 69:19 95:21 96:2 101:21 107:12 159:15 309:15 content 128:19 context 46:12 87:4 101:17 110:19 127:7 128:9 153:12 285:10 continue 58:7 98:20 133:13 144:18 162:15 213:15 303:17 continued 28:6 81:16 84:17 353:22 Meeting [continues - culture] continues 35:9 111:7 117:12 continuing 109:14 156:5 195:14 304:1 continuity 179:8 297:22 contributed 124:12 contribution 13:22 74:6 108:16 190:15 351:15 contributions 14:9 32:12 190:3 199:5 208:6 314:10 control 344:16 convention 27:7 conversation 68:17 118:9 124:22 130:14 133:13 150:16 193:14 341:20 conversations 125:21 353:3 coo 3:5 12:10 cool 298:20,21 325:13 copy 22:9 96:18 core 41:14 42:4 42:15,21 150:22 151:1,6 corporate 2:20 11:22 April 18, 2023 Page 22 corps 5:11 8:16 11:10 12:14 196:6,16 200:6 217:2 220:2,6 220:8,12,16 221:15 222:12 223:7 226:11 226:12 256:15 258:18 344:11 correct 44:10 44:11 47:2,7 100:16 174:4 217:10 220:4,5 221:3,4 245:21 269:15 270:8 300:6 313:19 corrected 219:18 351:8 correction 46:7 48:21 correctly 47:1 268:10 313:18 correspond 270:22 cost 256:14 costello 2:10 10:13,15 88:21 151:14 335:11 cottages 55:16 counsel 2:13,14 2:17 10:21,21 11:2,9 97:8 131:3 152:8 281:15 302:19 330:19 355:11 355:14 356:7 356:10 counting 240:13 countries 53:1 289:13 country 32:13 32:21 58:10 84:22 119:3,13 119:17 126:5 126:11,13 127:2,11 150:20 190:15 208:21,22 239:3,20 257:15 337:19 339:15 couple 65:13 143:15 148:18 191:5 228:20 238:18 289:8 290:9 291:13 322:20 courage 101:9 259:12,15,22 261:2,11 courageous 94:17 course 30:8 45:3 57:22 87:17 102:5 109:17 113:15 121:18 122:17 123:22 134:7 176:10 203:13 205:4 304:12 304:16,20 court 130:21 152:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 cover 11:17 287:14 covered 88:3 95:11 253:2 325:2 covering 88:7 94:5 110:4 cows 147:21 crash 198:16 216:18 create 280:2,5 336:11 created 35:21 148:13 210:10 217:1 258:10 creates 280:22 creating 15:11 creative 159:15 creatively 295:19 crew 13:16 critical 126:18 199:4 256:16 crooning 264:11 cross 230:20 241:2,3 295:1 312:8 crossed 38:4,5 63:4 crosses 225:4 crowd 347:1 crowned 260:4 crucial 239:1 cultural 200:17 culture 207:19 209:8 Meeting [cultured - defend] cultured 201:5 cummings 3:6 12:15 199:10 199:18,20 205:19 206:1,4 206:7 215:3,14 215:16 219:20 219:22 220:14 220:21 221:4,7 221:9 222:3,6 224:3,19 225:2 225:20 226:1,6 227:6 228:2 230:16 236:12 239:22 240:10 curator 3:9,22 7:17 12:19 199:13 curiosity 203:15 curious 123:16 202:15 227:8 227:18 266:2,4 currency 53:3 109:2 current 205:2 208:2 247:1 currently 162:18 179:20 214:15 312:17 319:18 curvature 275:6 295:21 curve 190:21 d d 6:1 April 18, 2023 Page 23 d.c. 250:5 danger 345:21 dangerous 27:6 135:15 165:5 276:5 344:15 dangers 68:10 dark 200:20 darla 4:4 7:20 8:9 15:2,9 16:7 72:22 83:3,4 90:8 114:7,8 115:22 126:16 141:14,15 143:3 169:16 173:14 184:1 237:19,20 238:11 276:19 276:20 292:19 292:20 314:7,9 324:17 darla's 280:8 280:19 dash 39:18,18 data 98:19 date 13:17 14:7 276:13 dates 217:14 283:8 dating 198:12 daughter 18:12 daughters 206:22 davis 120:7 day 53:9 93:20 111:7,10 144:18 198:6 233:18 237:8 279:19 319:17 344:8 days 246:14 dayton 241:5 dc 1:13 de 210:7 211:19 dead 253:9 316:1 deadliest 344:7 deaf 127:20 deal 66:13 297:6 304:8 dealing 193:3 319:16 dean 3:15 7:2 43:15,16 56:20 58:5 64:14 92:2,3 100:1,3 103:1 118:12 123:12,18 124:18,19 133:15,17 135:15 138:9 156:3,4 158:12 169:3 173:2 175:4 178:15 180:6,8 181:15 183:11 184:11 230:12,14 235:15 268:7,9 272:8 274:4 285:20,22 310:15,17 324:21 327:1,2 331:13 332:10 333:6 334:2 336:5,17 342:7 352:18 354:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 dean's 304:6 death 328:8 deaths 344:4 debate 126:19 338:18 decade 27:1 344:9 decide 71:13 91:9 214:18 decided 90:4 273:8 295:18 decision 91:12 92:8,9 102:16 352:11 decisions 91:12 94:7 207:3 deconstructed 268:18 decorated 299:14 decorative 256:18 dedicate 332:21 dedicated 59:14 211:6 250:4 251:16 344:19 dedication 353:15 deepening 250:13 deeper 202:14 default 174:17 174:20 defend 16:22 17:3 20:14,17 126:5 Meeting [defenders - deserves] defenders 256:22 283:9 defense 250:9 defer 123:21 deference 139:21 defiance 41:3 63:1,5 define 213:16 defining 250:6 definitely 159:7 334:8 definitive 90:16 131:6 303:9 definitively 317:8 degree 45:18 239:12 298:4 degrees 201:14 delay 210:18 deliberately 69:12 deliberation 207:7 deliberations 44:7 delivery 197:5 197:10 democracy 250:15 demonstrates 64:2 104:20 332:19 dennis 3:20 7:14 72:19 89:5,7 91:1 92:6 98:14,15 April 18, 2023 Page 24 112:8 129:13 129:15 142:15 144:8 153:3,5 153:9 154:22 158:5,6 160:6 160:12,15 162:7 166:4,21 168:6 169:11 173:10 177:3,5 181:16,17,18 181:20 183:19 189:17 194:6 194:18 235:22 241:8,13 243:4 243:5,6 264:2 264:4,16 270:14 282:12 287:3 290:19 291:4,6 299:22 300:2 304:3 307:20 308:13 308:19 324:20 332:15,22 333:3 334:5 336:10 340:9 340:22 341:2 342:19,21 353:5 dennis's 91:18 164:22 denomination 33:22 denominations 31:8 departed 97:12 department 225:8 departure 85:8 depend 306:7 depended 201:3 dependent 90:3 depending 71:8 287:10 depict 40:1 41:7 53:12 66:15 124:3 156:19 221:6 232:18 248:4 254:14 255:5 256:2 257:10 257:20 258:8 259:8,18 260:9 260:21 296:15 327:3 346:1,7 depicted 52:22 69:9,11 107:14 233:7 296:19 299:15 301:9 348:9 depicting 69:15 123:3 187:22 299:9,11 301:3 324:14 depiction 74:20 75:2 88:7 121:14 227:14 236:12 287:5 288:11,15 298:10 346:10 depictions 38:17 88:2 294:7 depicts 34:9,15 35:2 37:9 38:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 38:20 39:4 41:18 42:3 216:13,21 217:12,19 218:9,14 219:4 253:7,21 254:4 254:8,20 255:12,15 257:6 259:1,6 261:7,13,22 262:8,15,20 263:2,10 310:11 345:13 345:18 346:16 346:22 347:17 deposition 355:1 depressed 315:15 depression 201:10 329:13 depth 73:11 deputy 2:4 9:16 15:21 19:8 descent 52:16 described 22:11 45:7 describes 247:12 descriptions 33:15 43:9 133:5,9 descriptive 112:12,21 deserves 344:20 Meeting [design - designs] design 2:5,6,7 2:8,10 9:19,22 10:2,4,7,14 15:11 24:21 25:22 26:13 29:13 30:5 33:15 34:9,14 34:15,19,20 35:10,15 36:2 36:3,7,12,18 36:20,22 37:7 38:1,1,3,7,15 38:20 39:4,10 39:16,20,22 40:6,7,9,13,19 40:19 41:1,4 41:10,16,18 42:3,12,18,21 43:3,6,9 44:17 46:5,11,17 48:8,12,18,22 49:22 52:11 58:15 61:3,6 61:13 62:3 63:9 64:7,10 66:19 68:6,9 68:12 69:2,3 70:5,22 71:14 73:21 77:4,16 77:18 78:1,7 78:11 79:2 82:5,12 86:11 87:19,20 88:8 88:11 90:13 92:5 100:15 104:5 105:2 108:2 112:3,19 113:7,13,13,20 April 18, 2023 Page 25 115:17 116:3 116:17,21,21 117:20 121:12 125:11 126:15 126:18 128:18 128:20,21 130:5,7,10 135:19 136:1,3 138:1,5,15 139:7,14 141:11,17 142:22 145:1 145:21 146:2 148:18 149:2 155:7 159:7 160:20,21 161:2,19 162:2 162:4 163:2,10 168:11 171:6 171:21 179:17 181:1 184:17 184:18 186:5 196:5 211:13 213:9 214:1,14 216:7,13,21,21 217:8,8,12,19 218:3,13,14 219:1,4 220:3 222:1,8 224:21 224:21,22 226:2 234:9 235:6,7,15 237:16 248:5 251:8 252:4 253:7,18,20,20 254:4,7,16,17 255:3,8,10 256:1,9,10,17 256:20 257:11 257:14,16,17 258:5,6,7,15 258:19,21 259:1,10,13,15 259:16 260:14 260:16,18,19 260:22 261:4 262:5,6 263:1 263:13,13 264:18 265:1 265:16 270:22 271:4,9,15,16 271:17 272:22 273:2 274:7,11 275:9 276:15 277:2,4 278:15 281:21 282:17 284:6,12,13 288:19 290:11 293:19 294:4 295:6,17 300:14 303:5 306:21 308:16 308:18 309:6 314:14 316:7 317:11,21 319:14 322:10 323:5,17 325:13 326:4 328:4,22 330:22 331:1,2 331:2,3,3 337:8 338:11 343:14 345:3 345:13,18 346:4,5,12,13 346:16,22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 347:12,15,17 347:21 348:2,5 348:10,12,13 designated 197:16 344:22 designation 215:19 designed 50:8 63:1 220:3 designer 34:6 87:15 121:19 designing 210:8 designs 5:6,9 5:13,16 8:13 8:15,19,21 24:7 25:19 26:2,5 28:17 28:20,22 29:3 33:16,18 34:2 34:9 35:20 37:17,22 39:12 40:1,19 41:6 42:16 43:8,14 45:19 46:13,15 48:8,13 49:18 52:5 55:5 56:12 57:2 58:18 60:17 61:8 73:19 75:8,14 77:2,4 78:10,18 82:18 86:10,16,17 87:11 91:14 95:21 100:4 101:21 102:15 106:15,19 107:1 112:10 Meeting [designs - disbanded] 113:5,11 116:8 118:22 130:2 133:18 134:8 134:11 136:16 141:16 143:6,6 143:9 144:10 144:16 157:11 159:10,12,13 162:5 164:22 170:3,21 174:16 179:9 196:12 199:8 202:8 203:11 211:14 213:16 215:1 216:7 218:2 236:9 241:15 242:11 243:2 249:7,10 252:5,20 253:7 254:13 255:18 255:20,21 257:18,20 259:8 260:7 262:7 274:3 275:11,11,18 277:16 280:7 281:4 288:5,5 288:9 289:17 293:10 298:1,6 303:19 304:7 306:7 308:12 309:1 315:6,11 316:10,15 325:10,22 327:5 328:15 329:21 330:9 342:14 344:21 345:12 346:1 April 18, 2023 Page 26 347:7,8 350:10 desirable 121:15 desire 71:8 desmond 53:4 despite 27:5 50:5 detail 87:20 101:2 112:13 147:13 272:2 detailed 273:9 306:5 335:21 335:22 details 32:7 278:19,21 determination 28:15 41:3,16 42:11 43:2 60:20 61:1 77:19 143:16 determined 13:17 56:14 determining 255:22 developed 28:18 developing 29:13 199:8 251:7 344:21 development 32:20 devised 198:1 devoid 143:7 diagonal 128:22 129:1,2 129:3 diameter 66:12 75:15 diametrically 158:18 die 326:17 died 249:20 271:6 273:14 difference 69:1 differences 232:17 different 45:18 49:18 53:1 66:19 79:13 101:10 138:14 143:15 156:16 158:1 159:9 161:14 162:4 167:10 181:8 193:14 213:11 239:20 287:14 296:3 297:12 302:6 320:12 334:6 341:4 differently 23:8 114:18 334:7 difficult 50:8 65:19 106:14 293:8 295:3 313:7 difficulty 156:7 dig 202:13 digital 355:8 356:3 dignified 65:6 65:8 67:19 dignity 55:18 dimension 69:20 291:22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 dimensional 290:14 291:19 291:20 294:16 diplomas 201:9 201:12 dipper 35:22 36:5 direct 339:21 directed 349:13 direction 98:22 115:8 167:3 298:9 directly 96:22 295:19 297:15 director 2:4,11 3:7,11 8:17 9:16 10:16 12:18 13:1 15:21 19:8 44:7 196:7 199:12 251:6 directors 31:20 directory 5:12 196:17 197:17 216:20 217:5 219:7 directs 225:12 dirty 222:16 disadvantage 332:12 disagree 125:17 207:10 273:5 disappointed 236:11 disbanded 220:8 Meeting [disc - don] disc 228:11 discarded 268:19 discharge 17:17,20 21:10 21:13 disclose 238:17 disclosure 220:7 discounted 287:2 288:9 discourage 49:20 discretion 155:8 168:11 176:11 discuss 90:7 133:7 156:2 199:22 210:1 235:13 338:18 349:21 350:11 discussed 154:16 163:4 163:20 194:20 227:4 discussing 118:12 191:4 discussion 5:6 5:9,13,16 8:12 8:14,19,21 25:8 46:16 47:21 48:3 51:20 73:18 74:10 87:7 89:11 92:16 96:14 99:18,21 137:11 153:7 156:1 158:9,11 April 18, 2023 Page 27 170:11 172:15 175:5,9 176:4 176:5,13 177:13 179:7 185:6 191:16 195:7 196:4 202:11 222:1 229:1 230:4,11 231:17 236:3 241:19 243:2 243:19 244:21 246:1 249:7 304:1 332:17 337:4 339:3 342:22 343:8 343:20 350:6 350:10,13 353:12 discussions 89:12 185:20 193:10 252:17 dismissed 84:3 displays 24:13 disrespect 225:7 disrespectful 125:1 distinction 182:2 distinctive 66:2 distinguished 38:10 distinguishing 27:19 distracted 132:22 distraction 65:21 district 355:19 disturbing 126:17 dive 290:13 diverse 94:14 200:16 201:5 diversity 141:11 201:18 division 311:1 divorced 186:13 dizzy 289:2 doctor 89:3 documentary 12:17 199:11 203:5 documentation 95:12 documents 23:14 dod's 204:9 dodge 216:16 dog 348:7 doing 6:16 16:17 20:10 57:2 59:20 74:14 80:15 91:7 92:9 104:3 107:9 149:11 150:19 157:11,22 165:16 187:17 192:17 227:21 227:22 232:8 235:11 267:12 270:6 280:2 306:9 308:10 318:8 345:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 dollar 28:20,22 29:1 37:8 61:18 63:20 65:5,20 66:2,5 66:12,18 69:8 70:1,3 71:5 75:12,16 81:7 89:10 90:3,4 91:9,10,15,15 91:21 98:20 100:10 101:1 105:3 112:20 113:17 116:1,2 116:6,6 134:4 137:16 139:8 143:1 149:3 150:3,6 155:4 155:5,6 157:18 157:19 161:18 162:3 170:3 171:21 174:1,2 174:6 181:21 249:13,14,14 282:15 304:5 309:7,16 312:9 318:9 325:1,3 326:11,20 333:7,12 336:13,14 dollars 294:19 326:11 domestic 17:1 17:5 20:15,18 dominates 138:20 don 272:22 273:5 287:12 Meeting [donald - dr] donald 3:18 7:11 45:13 68:15 102:22 104:18 109:19 123:10 125:3 138:17 153:20 159:4 165:3,5 166:3 169:9 173:8 181:18 182:5 183:17 211:9 220:18 234:1 271:18 284:21 309:13 311:9 313:7,18 320:13 322:19 337:6 349:6 donating 262:18 door 231:3 dot 25:4 double 191:7,9 191:10,11 218:11 290:10 dozen 19:2 222:16 dr 1:5 2:3 3:13 3:15,21 6:2,7 6:20,21,22 7:1 7:2,3,4,7,10,13 7:16,17,18,19 7:22 8:3,3 9:13 9:18,21 10:2,4 10:7,10,13,16 10:20 11:1,8 11:14,17,21 12:2 16:7 18:16 19:10 20:1 23:4,18 April 18, 2023 Page 28 23:19 24:2 26:6 29:15,17 30:3 43:11,16 44:2,4,11,13 45:13 46:18,19 47:4,11,16,18 47:19,20,21 48:2 49:17 51:3,9 52:1,2,2 52:12 53:21 55:3,10 56:8 56:19,20,22 57:4,6,7,8,9,10 58:4,6 61:2,14 63:13,14 64:17 64:19 66:20 67:8,9,10,10 68:14 70:14 72:18,20 73:19 75:17 79:4 83:2,5 85:2 87:5,8 88:16 89:1,4,7,8,14 89:16 90:6 91:5 92:1,3,11 92:13 96:12 97:6,7 98:13 98:15,16,21 99:2,3,6,7,11 99:12,14,16 100:2 102:18 104:12 105:8 105:12,17,18 106:10,12,12 107:20 108:10 108:12,12 109:10 112:7 114:5,6 115:19 117:8 118:11 118:17,20 120:16,17,18 121:1,6,9,10 122:2,3,3,5 123:10,18,20 124:18,19 125:13,20 127:5 128:5,14 128:15 129:13 129:15,16 130:9 131:2 132:1,5,9,14 133:7,12,16 135:11 136:6 136:12,15 137:19 138:16 140:7,9,9 141:1,3,3,13 142:14,16 143:20,22 146:4,15 147:2 147:4 148:5,16 149:9,12,13 150:13 151:10 151:15,22 152:3,7 153:5 153:6,9 154:22 155:2,12,17,20 155:22 156:2,3 156:4 158:2,4 158:6,10 159:4 160:13,14 161:6 162:6,12 162:16 163:22 164:6,18 165:2 165:19 166:1 166:21 167:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 167:14,17,20 168:16,19 169:1,2,3,4,5,7 169:9,11,14,15 169:16,18,20 170:6,10 171:12,19,22 172:3,5,7,10 172:14,18,21 173:1,2,3,4,6,8 173:10,12,13 173:14,16,20 174:3,5,8,10 174:12,13,17 174:19 175:4,8 175:12,15,18 175:19 176:1,4 176:7,12,16,20 177:5,8,12,18 177:21,22 178:1,6,10,11 178:15,18,21 179:1,5 180:6 180:7 181:10 181:14,15,17 182:5,15,19,22 183:2,3,6,10 183:11,12,13 183:15,17,19 183:21,22 184:1,3,5,8,11 184:22 185:4,9 185:12,13,15 185:17,19 186:3,15,18,20 186:21,21 187:4,7,19 189:11,12,15 Meeting [dr - eagle] 191:2,3,13,17 192:18 193:2,5 193:13,18 194:1,3,6,18 195:1,4,19 196:3,13 205:18 206:6,8 206:9 211:9 213:6,14,22 214:3,11,13 215:22 216:2 219:9 220:18 224:4,8,14,16 225:21 226:2 227:3,7 228:16 228:21 229:21 230:13 232:10 232:12 233:22 235:20 236:1,5 236:6,20 237:4 237:9,10,19 238:10,16 240:2,19 241:8 241:11,13 242:3,6 243:5 243:7,16,18,19 243:22 244:12 244:15,19 245:6,12,17 246:3,4 248:8 248:13,21 249:2,5,11 252:21 263:15 264:4,8 265:8 265:19 266:22 267:1 268:7,8 269:21 270:5,5 270:8,9,10,12 April 18, 2023 Page 29 270:13,15,19 271:18 272:7,9 272:14,17,21 273:17,19,19 274:22 275:14 275:14,16,16 276:1,3,18 277:12 279:4 281:2,14 282:9 282:14 283:16 284:3,20 285:19,21 288:2 289:5,5 289:7,7 290:17 290:18 292:18 293:21 296:4,7 296:8,10 298:7 299:1,20 300:2 300:3,6,22 301:1,13 302:7 302:18 303:16 303:22 304:4 307:9,10 309:12 310:14 310:16 311:18 312:12,14,19 313:4,5,6 314:6 315:3 316:17,19,22 317:1,4,6 319:1,9 321:16 321:17,18 322:5,19 324:4 324:20,22 326:22 327:1,2 327:20 328:10 328:12,12 329:5,18,22 330:4,11,18 331:9,12,13,14 331:19 332:5,8 332:14,18,22 333:2,13 334:2 334:4 335:8 336:3,17,19 337:3,5,10,12 337:20 338:5 338:10,11,20 339:2,4,5,18 340:8,16,18,18 340:21 341:2,3 341:17 342:2,9 342:12,17,21 343:3,7,21 348:15,17 349:5,6 350:2 350:4,6,12,16 350:18 351:3,5 351:7 352:2,5 352:7,15,17,17 352:18,19 353:11 354:8,9 354:12 drafted 126:4 128:6 drafts 266:8 drama 64:15 dramatic 282:19 draped 346:8 drawing 49:10 115:11 271:4 291:20 335:22 336:1 drawn 109:16 140:15 260:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 282:21 286:22 311:13 dress 88:13 227:10 228:14 drill 51:7 drivers 208:17 drives 109:21 305:4 326:14 drop 201:5 247:3 dropping 231:14 drove 197:3 dual 93:9 due 92:6 104:18 109:19 117:16 191:14 277:15 294:18 295:7 345:6 duly 355:5 dumb 127:20 duties 17:17,20 21:10,13 213:3 226:15 duty 202:4 221:20 240:1 241:1 344:14 dynamic 80:6 94:11 e e 2:1,1 3:1,1 4:1,1 5:1 6:1,1 33:21 260:5 306:19 eagle 254:10 255:14 260:4 292:11 Meeting [eagles - emblematic] eagles 256:5 258:1 286:15 288:6,8 291:9 297:9 312:3 326:4 348:4 earley 239:10 240:14,19 241:5 earlier 29:21 55:20 64:7 77:1 129:18 144:15 160:5 178:16 179:7 189:19 194:8 231:21 279:14 285:10 294:2 298:13 304:6 333:20 easier 50:21 67:6 161:10 232:15 east 300:13 eastern 58:22 59:12 easy 231:12 237:3 eat 244:10 eating 65:1 echo 307:17,19 echoed 314:17 echoes 253:17 315:2 edges 242:19 edit 226:22 edited 88:12 edition 211:20 editions 45:9 April 18, 2023 Page 30 editor 4:7,9 9:11,12 editorial 143:14 editorializing 128:19 edits 217:10 219:3,14 edna 3:6 12:15 197:18 199:10 206:6 224:7,11 educate 120:21 163:3 educating 30:12 education 22:22 24:20 85:12 163:16 179:11,15,17 180:5,10 188:19 266:19 educational 251:3,18 edward 223:13 effect 14:22 effective 61:16 235:13 effectively 163:4 efficient 198:1 effort 39:7 229:19 249:21 251:21 286:17 304:19 305:10 326:13 efforts 27:12 41:8 204:9 262:17 345:14 eight 3:6,8 8:18 11:11 12:15,16 12:17,18 35:17 35:18 39:18,18 66:17 82:15 127:14 162:5 196:8,18 197:17,18 198:2,3,6,11 198:14,17,19 199:3,10,11,12 199:22 200:5 201:6,8,14,19 202:5 203:3,15 203:19,21 204:7,11 210:3 216:10,14,20 217:1,5,17,20 217:22 218:15 219:5,6 221:18 222:15 226:13 226:15 227:2 331:12 eight's 225:16 either 50:22 75:8 96:18 111:21 114:1 139:15 143:16 171:11 201:4 201:14 234:19 242:1 279:1 315:18 317:11 324:6,9,10 elderly 28:8 electronically 96:19 electronics 96:21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 elegant 68:6 82:2,5,13 elegantly 231:2 element 329:2 elements 15:11 48:8,12,18 139:7 141:11 217:10 222:8 236:17,18 260:12 262:11 274:12,18 276:15 326:4 elevating 247:18 eligible 320:16 eliminating 165:14 elliott 18:20 eloquently 193:12 231:2 email 96:20 149:16 353:20 emailed 25:4 emancipation 102:5,8 113:14 118:15 157:7,8 embarked 251:21 embarrassed 335:2 embedded 328:22 emblazoned 260:5 emblem 333:18 emblematic 26:13 41:10 229:19 249:15 Meeting [emblematic - european] 323:6 embrace 85:5 118:1 213:10 214:16 237:6 embraces 295:22 embracing 85:17 emotional 313:12 324:2 emotions 61:22 275:20 emphasize 81:19 110:8 146:2 emphasized 231:5 268:18 emphasizing 144:19 145:3 145:16 employed 355:11,14 356:8,11 employee 355:13 356:10 empty 246:21 enamored 57:15 encircled 257:14 encompassed 145:22 encouraged 55:2 endorse 275:21 ends 90:4 110:21 306:5 enemies 17:1,4 20:15,18 enemy 344:19 energy 205:13 engage 106:20 engagements 150:20 england 196:20 217:18 218:21 219:7 223:14 307:22 engraver 2:9 10:11 34:6 87:15 121:19 engravers 283:14 engraving 2:10 10:14 146:14 303:20 335:9 enjoy 72:22 83:18 84:12 115:14 141:17 293:15 enjoyed 293:1 enlisted 197:13 307:21 enormous 94:5 enormously 63:11 enslaved 26:15 27:22 28:7 38:13 41:22 63:8 157:8 ensure 33:4 208:19 ensuring 32:7 enter 17:18,21 21:11,14 April 18, 2023 Page 31 entered 304:10 entertain 245:8 321:15 354:6 enthusiasm 12:5 enthusiastic 16:11 19:17 entire 33:2 80:7 129:8 138:21 182:13 252:9 337:17 337:19 339:10 339:11,14 entirely 68:13 85:17 186:5 301:4 enumerated 155:11 envelope 217:2 envelopes 218:5,5 environment 225:11 envision 246:11,20 292:4 envisioned 269:8 episcopal 31:4 epitomizes 36:20 equal 276:8 equality 41:16 42:11 43:2 equally 137:1 160:6,8 268:6 equipment 261:19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 era 24:16 38:8 39:1 40:7 305:8 es 355:4 escher 288:20 especially 13:4 68:21 79:7,17 86:21 104:5 141:22 157:2 175:2 213:18 294:5,7 315:7 327:4 329:13 352:21 espoused 80:4 essence 123:4 305:20 essential 128:20 essentially 49:9 297:14 328:21 329:2 establish 31:4 60:13 186:14 established 25:17 54:6 55:16,20 esther 286:11 estimates 344:4 eternal 253:21 263:22 276:22 ethnic 200:17 201:5 202:20 europe 196:21 197:3 216:19 223:12 european 199:7 218:10 222:17 225:18 Meeting [evacuation - extremely] evacuation 9:2 343:16 345:14 evans 10:4 evasion 17:12 17:15 21:6,8 event 40:12 116:14 250:6 events 19:4 eventually 349:3 everybody 31:11 78:11,20 113:19 116:19 246:2 291:18 301:21 304:14 304:14,15 305:9 308:8 317:9 everybody's 153:15 everyday 268:1 269:18 314:11 314:21 everyone's 184:5 everything's 81:21 91:19 evidenced 14:19 evita 289:21 evocative 68:9 273:2 274:5 327:21 328:2 evoke 275:19 exactly 56:4 109:21 238:11 238:12 271:11 333:22 example 48:12 49:21 164:13 204:2,12 223:4 289:13 299:13 excellence 61:9 excellent 45:14 61:12 98:9 100:4 102:15 149:3 184:16 343:7 except 23:20 69:9 82:1 103:7 134:11 144:3 exceptional 27:17 exceptions 102:20 excerpt 47:10 255:16 exchange 49:18 excited 18:7 22:18 23:1 83:7 202:18 247:16 251:11 252:3 exciting 18:9 81:13 294:6 excluded 299:12 excuse 6:12 25:4 39:19 134:5 177:14 209:14 340:20 351:1 executive 3:11 13:1 200:11 251:6 April 18, 2023 Page 32 exemplified 344:18 exergue 217:1 exhibits 24:13 existential 50:2 exiting 247:10 expand 45:2 128:7 290:19 expanded 264:16 expect 283:1 expedition 27:20 38:11 experience 48:19 227:1 251:19 302:5 326:5 experienced 120:14 experiences 334:7 experiencing 181:8 expert 149:8 214:6 expertise 208:9 experts 211:21 explain 53:18 290:22 explained 56:17 explaining 135:6 157:3 explains 137:9 explanation 51:6 56:9 267:5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 explicit 163:21 179:11 explicitly 163:19 296:1 explosion 343:22 exposition 192:4,10 express 18:6 195:9 296:2 345:7 expressed 36:20 expresses 234:8 expressing 50:6 expression 30:21 34:12 114:13 267:15 extend 52:7 extended 43:7 45:22 49:9 68:1 69:18 100:11 175:5 extension 251:18 extent 86:2 112:5 242:18 extraordinarily 60:1 extraordinary 268:4,6 extreme 344:18 extremely 16:11 19:16 22:16 30:16 344:15 Meeting [eye - federal] eye 34:12 74:20 157:15 eyes 63:10 f f 317:6,8 face 77:19 121:12,22 133:22 facial 217:11 223:8 facing 221:2 260:4 fact 19:4 23:9 49:20,22 54:16 56:12 57:20 66:18 107:21 109:17 126:22 130:1,14 162:3 170:1,17 179:18 190:2 227:14 236:11 238:17 240:4 243:1 265:21 279:6 289:11 320:7,14,22 350:20 factor 180:5 factories 311:21 factory 249:22 308:5 faculty 15:15 fade 349:4 faded 201:2 failed 193:15 fails 169:21 173:19 184:6,6 April 18, 2023 Page 33 failure 49:11 fair 55:10,11 213:12 227:19 fairly 281:18 faith 41:15 42:10,19 43:1 126:13 faithfully 17:17 17:20 21:10,13 fall 26:18 fallen 269:14 347:5,8,16,18 347:22 348:3,6 348:11 falling 276:4 falls 128:21 familiar 15:10 33:7 157:12 233:13 267:20 families 263:6 318:13 321:12 326:10 349:10 349:12,13 family 18:11 41:15 42:10,20 43:1 214:8 241:5 304:15 326:12,12,17 339:22 famous 19:5 fan 111:19 145:6 161:19 295:13 fantastic 48:16 62:1 68:9 74:1 75:1 76:4 142:14 265:22 304:2 far 87:21 93:22 135:17 140:11 145:2 186:13 198:13 203:4 213:2 285:6 300:13 316:12 farm 28:9 42:7 249:22 farming 313:22 fascinating 240:15 fastened 37:12 father 271:5,14 304:9 fatigue 237:12 favor 23:20 47:22 49:8 64:13 104:22 122:9 123:2 126:15 148:19 162:17 164:3,7 167:11 172:16 175:10 176:14 182:16 194:21 237:1 243:20 277:1 293:9 297:3 298:6 309:6,11 322:14 341:21 343:1 350:14 352:5 354:9 favored 38:1 39:22 41:5 42:12 43:6 112:10 113:4 138:6 154:2 181:22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 favorite 100:15 118:22 152:12 152:18 154:7 154:11,17 284:14 307:1 favorites 63:21 feat 127:15 feather 187:12 291:10 feathers 188:2 feature 42:16 192:8 256:11 347:8 featured 156:12 218:3 288:6 features 24:12 34:19 35:20 216:7,19 217:11 218:3 223:9 254:16 254:18 256:17 256:20 257:1 258:5,15 259:10 263:7 288:17 289:3 301:8 309:10 346:4,5,12,13 347:15,21 348:2,5,10 featuring 256:5 258:1 february 8:11 23:13 204:21 217:14 fed 55:14 federal 354:4 Meeting [feedback - five] feedback 51:21 213:18 214:16 329:16 335:9 feel 18:8 24:5 31:12 50:1 60:17 62:3 65:6,17 71:1 84:4,21 92:10 101:3 114:12 123:15,16,16 135:6 141:16 141:18 144:5 156:20 178:1 184:10 188:14 191:14 211:2 224:22,22 238:3 240:16 276:8 277:18 278:1 290:5 292:7 294:15 314:10,14,15 318:12 329:12 338:3 340:6 352:22 feeling 84:5 146:6 319:13 feels 84:6,11 115:6,11 132:18 141:21 157:1 180:18 290:13 feet 296:14 felix 210:7 211:19 fell 286:18 fellow 120:6 felt 61:7 62:17 62:22 119:21 April 18, 2023 Page 34 135:8 146:10 276:7 277:3,11 female 93:7 fence 34:17 ferry 39:14,15 fewer 295:22 field 60:6 207:20 263:2 345:20 349:3,4 fields 103:11 104:11 166:9 fight 126:9 127:9 fighting 261:20 334:11 figure 62:13,14 80:1 81:17 87:21 88:14 180:16 219:16 221:2 256:13 256:15 257:2 323:17 326:22 335:18 figures 47:1 61:21 88:11 237:12 256:12 293:2 296:18 348:19 349:1 files 109:7 filing 218:15 filipino 300:12 fill 286:10 filled 76:18 196:20 218:19 filling 110:22 final 41:11 122:19 125:14 132:17 137:11 203:14 231:4 finality 96:8 finally 12:2 31:12 33:1 53:7 88:1 financially 355:15 356:11 find 22:16 68:8 79:7 81:12 89:19 95:19 106:14,19 115:12 139:14 157:17 161:10 162:1 212:6 236:8,15 239:5 264:19 295:14 295:17 296:2 296:17,20 316:20 328:13 finding 314:10 fine 15:14 44:9 78:9 83:19 100:14 113:13 114:2 124:13 130:7 192:21 195:17 244:9 278:3 285:1 316:11 338:17 finish 132:16 finished 95:14 101:14 105:13 105:15 312:8 first 15:1,8 22:3,4,4,9 25:12 27:20 33:17 38:11 45:4,9,9 72:21 75:20 77:15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 78:9 83:6,11 91:16 94:1 114:9 115:3,22 119:4 122:15 123:19 142:8 146:12 148:18 149:6 153:10 160:1 180:12 187:10 192:11 192:13 225:2 226:10 236:21 238:13 263:18 275:17 283:18 306:15 317:2 322:21 330:4 342:7 351:13 fiscal 14:19 fist 55:1 fit 88:12 110:22 142:22 286:16 347:12 fits 62:18,19 232:9 335:5 five 29:1 35:11 43:21 51:16 63:17 66:1 83:18 114:3 130:15,15 134:4 137:5,16 139:7 143:1 149:3 150:6 151:17,18 155:6 158:21 158:22 159:6 195:20,21 221:16 244:5 245:18 247:5 249:13 281:9 Meeting [five - forward] 282:6 302:12 325:3 330:12 346:22 flag 38:4 39:5 112:16 115:6 119:5,6,11 120:9,10,12 121:3 123:13 124:9,10,13 125:5,16 126:14,15,18 127:6,16 128:11,18,22 129:4 130:2,6 254:14 257:7 260:22 262:21 271:7 273:15 274:18 279:14 280:1 297:1 313:10 319:22 324:1,11,13,14 346:9 348:1,6 348:11 flags 348:4 flame 253:21 254:1 263:22 270:21 277:1 flanked 254:1 flat 184:15 215:2 247:20 flight 345:20 flip 161:22 flipped 49:9 flipping 216:9 floor 1:12 164:2 246:22 247:3 320:19 April 18, 2023 Page 35 floors 328:19 328:22 flow 151:2 250:19 flower 38:18 flush 349:3 fly 248:19 flying 261:9 262:21 315:17 focus 61:4 67:3 145:3 163:11 207:9 299:1 304:6 focused 274:15 328:8 333:7,12 focuses 298:11 focusing 270:10 294:8 fold 271:12 folded 108:16 254:14 260:22 271:9 273:14 279:14 280:1 folks 130:11 251:14 267:3 302:1,3 309:8 314:17 follow 73:19 104:9 160:16 185:2 267:1 339:18 followed 91:12 97:22 131:12 131:19 154:8 154:12 240:21 follower 287:8 followers 232:1 following 8:8 9:14 33:18 213:8 282:9 font 306:19 food 261:18 305:4 326:14 foot 296:14 force 256:14 258:17 313:21 forced 294:20 295:2 forces 197:3 249:19 256:13 257:4 258:12 300:13 340:5 foregoing 355:3,4 356:4 foreign 17:1,4 20:15,18 forever 93:13 forged 260:15 262:14 305:18 306:1 forget 255:18 280:11 forgetting 295:1 forgive 12:5 86:13 127:2 194:8 236:15 239:21 294:22 321:14 332:10 forgiveness 55:6 forgot 310:10 form 272:11 327:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 formal 98:18 182:1 formalized 143:19 format 113:6 252:22 formed 197:19 former 13:10 14:12 55:17 formerly 41:21 forming 142:17 forms 36:1,6 129:5 fort 203:7 204:10,10 forth 78:15 91:2 93:10 95:2,5,8,11,22 119:15,18 136:4 151:4 212:22 271:1 296:16 fortunately 103:21 forty 221:16 forward 18:2 21:17 23:6 56:14 65:10 67:7 73:1 80:2 82:18 125:20 141:21 144:7 195:14 208:10 208:10 210:16 211:22,22 212:4,8,9 214:18,18 241:22 246:2 248:4 252:16 Meeting [forward - funds] 265:20 278:9 342:9,10 fought 28:6 119:1,2 271:5 310:19 found 26:20 27:3 76:6 81:2 107:12 239:16 275:6 288:8 289:1 298:3 foundation 73:15 75:7 foundational 145:22 foundations 25:16 founded 251:13,17 founder 4:8 9:11 four 66:1 83:18 112:12 158:21 158:22 178:5,6 203:18 216:16 216:16 230:17 256:5 258:1 282:5 308:2 310:5,5 316:2 fourth 230:19 fragments 37:13 france 198:11 198:14,20 216:12 217:18 218:21 219:7 308:1 franchise 128:7 April 18, 2023 Page 36 franklin 194:15 frankly 86:11 122:16 150:21 236:9 321:22 free 30:19,21 30:22 36:11 38:6 39:21 40:17 42:1 54:7 95:22 96:3,7,9,9 113:9,10 117:3 119:22 126:8 126:11 127:14 137:14 157:6 182:12 250:19 261:6 313:15 315:13 freed 26:17 27:18 28:1,7 38:13 39:8 113:15,19 freedom 3:3 12:10 26:20 27:2,4,11 28:15 29:7,12 30:2 31:9,14 31:21 32:12 34:13 35:17 36:8,9,14,20 37:2,14 40:10 40:14,15 41:2 41:15 42:10,14 42:19 43:1,4,6 43:19,22 54:3 54:3,11,21 55:21,22 56:13 60:3 80:22 94:19 119:2,14 127:10,13,13 128:7 163:6,11 250:10,15 253:17 254:17 256:22 259:15 261:1,5,10 283:9 313:15 freely 17:11,14 21:2,4 127:21 frequently 192:8 fresh 89:17 91:8 friendly 158:3 158:8 171:9,14 178:19 336:18 337:21 341:19 friends 3:10 13:1 250:22 251:6,12,17 305:3 front 57:15 227:22 248:6 253:18 261:14 261:21 262:17 272:19,19 304:7,13 305:21 306:11 311:2,6 314:2 314:4 319:19 321:13 325:8 326:16,21 327:3 333:12 336:22 337:19 341:9 fronts 296:16 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 fruits 55:15 full 89:11 100:10 103:14 103:16 106:3 130:14 180:9 192:8,11 220:7 274:18 fuller 3:13 6:21 6:22 52:1,2 55:3,10 56:8 57:10 61:2,14 63:14 89:16 99:3,7,11,14 108:12 122:3,4 123:20 141:3,4 146:15,16 147:2,4 169:2 173:1 177:21 178:1,6,10 183:3,10 191:3 191:14,17 192:18 193:2,5 232:12,13 267:1,2 275:15 275:16,17 289:6,7 313:5 313:6 321:16 321:18 324:4 339:5,18 340:8 fullness 128:12 fully 225:15 301:18,22 349:1 function 106:7 funded 198:16 funds 323:9,10 323:11 Meeting [funeral - giving] funeral 54:19 271:10 further 50:10 51:21 96:13 147:6 150:15 151:11,12 153:7 158:11 167:6 172:15 175:8 176:12 177:13 178:11 181:11 185:19 194:19,20 230:10 238:8 241:8 247:6 248:13 269:21 281:2 299:21 302:7 329:5 333:14 341:19 342:22 343:8 350:12 355:13 356:9 fusion 218:9 future 25:9 58:1 125:22 235:9,14 250:12 g g 6:1 40:19,21 41:7 317:4,5,8 game 12:6 garden 147:18 261:8,15 gardening 147:19 gardens 250:1 262:18 April 18, 2023 Page 37 gathered 233:11 geared 292:21 gender 197:22 general 3:12 4:6 6:18 7:22 8:4 14:5 18:7 20:2,4,8 33:9 44:6 77:6 79:8 80:9 82:9 83:16 109:18 110:19 142:17 144:20,21 162:22 204:12 213:2 223:18 233:9,12 315:7 333:15 338:14 generally 316:9 generate 184:15 generated 204:8 generation 5:14 8:20 12:21 41:14,14 249:8 252:9,13 254:18 266:2 266:12,13,14 266:20 267:6,6 267:13,21 268:14,22 278:11 281:5 294:8 300:18 304:13 339:10 339:12 340:13 generation's 250:14 generationally 23:8 generations 31:15 207:4,4 250:13 266:11 277:21 278:8 278:12 generic 209:9 221:8,9 226:17 genesee 93:2 gentleman 206:20 gentlemen 130:13 235:21 244:2 307:11 340:16 342:10 353:12 genuine 203:9 geographical 102:13 geography 109:5 george 18:21 germane 209:5 germany 308:1 gesture 41:7 53:19 67:21 95:9,10 getter 100:9 131:12,20 152:21 153:17 153:22 154:20 154:20 162:19 282:3 303:5,10 330:22 331:7 getters 153:13 155:11 164:2 168:2,15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 170:15 171:7 171:15 174:7 getting 58:8 161:3 207:2 223:17 269:16 291:6 308:7 ghana 53:5 gilkes 4:7 9:10 gill 14:1 girl 347:22 give 56:9,17 57:19 58:2 92:10 112:4 135:9 142:11 143:11 164:9 165:12 174:21 182:3 202:9 215:21 244:7 266:6 276:10 278:20 287:6 309:8 310:10 315:16 given 45:20 56:15 71:19 72:8,12 73:14 85:4 86:3 116:3,5 119:1 170:17,21 213:7 215:20 230:9 gives 60:19 63:9 75:12 287:13 290:14 298:10,12 giving 28:10 108:8,13 215:21 248:10 293:2 324:9 Meeting [glad - gold] glad 12:3 110:3 glasses 207:13 246:8 globe 256:6,12 258:2 259:19 291:2 297:17 297:20,20 298:12 gloves 147:19 gnarled 147:11 go 29:16 33:14 41:11 45:17 47:15 50:21,22 53:11 57:11 65:13 66:6 70:3,9,10 71:14 78:6 81:14 82:17 84:9 99:21 100:8 101:11 103:4,6 116:11 121:10 123:19 127:9 131:1 133:8 134:11 135:2 136:11 141:14 142:3 146:13,17 149:10 151:9 159:6 160:12 161:7 164:2 166:16 169:22 176:20 179:21 180:21 181:4 186:3 189:4 191:8 193:6,11 201:2 206:15 211:14 214:14 214:18,18 April 18, 2023 Page 38 226:3 231:9,21 232:15,20,21 238:15 244:4 244:14 245:7 248:4,16 249:3 253:3,5 271:16 272:6 273:8 275:12,21 276:1 277:1 278:18,22 285:5,18 289:2 289:18 291:14 292:14 295:12 295:20 311:19 312:4 314:5,13 314:19 316:2 318:7 319:7 322:3 323:11 323:21 324:10 324:10,12 325:4 335:2 337:5 342:10 342:13 353:1 goal 93:16 198:9 208:18 252:2 god 33:20 goddess 220:1 goes 85:22 103:12 141:9 186:19 242:6 244:12 going 12:4 22:3 24:17 33:14 39:12 48:10,18 55:6 56:3 57:4 61:11,19 62:3 62:20 65:2,12 65:15,19,22 66:3 71:13,18 76:11 77:6 78:10,19 85:5 85:7,16,22 86:7,17,21 91:2 92:7 101:6 103:4 106:9 110:7 123:6 125:3,4 125:8 130:17 132:6,14,16 133:18 134:15 134:21 135:7,9 135:12,15 139:8 145:5 146:11,13 151:9 152:2 153:16 156:10 159:10,12,18 160:16 166:1,5 166:16 168:20 177:6 180:21 181:3,4,9 182:10 185:18 187:11 188:5,9 188:9 192:19 193:8 194:3,11 205:17 207:3,9 208:1 217:6 219:17 231:6,8 231:19 233:14 237:22 242:13 244:14 245:7,8 248:16 252:11 267:22 269:8 272:3,6 278:9 278:19,20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 279:6 280:10 280:11,12 283:5,13 286:5 286:9 287:6 288:21 291:16 291:16,21 292:1,2,3,12 292:16 298:17 301:5 309:18 309:22 310:7 311:14,18,19 314:1,3,13,14 314:18 318:20 319:7 321:14 327:6 330:14 331:14,15 334:8,10,20 338:12 341:4 gold 2:16,18 5:10 8:15,22 11:3,9 12:13 29:1 40:18 41:6 49:2,6 50:1,6,10,12 50:22 66:4 71:16 82:8 87:3 91:22 103:15 132:16 132:19 133:1 134:4 137:16 138:19,22 139:7 147:8 149:3 150:6 154:15 155:6 155:13,13,15 168:8 175:17 175:19,22 176:3 177:15 Meeting [gold - guarantee] 196:5,15 201:21 203:4 207:16 208:20 210:11 229:2,8 229:17 231:3 234:5,7,18 235:18 249:13 253:7,7,12,20 254:4,8,13,14 254:20 255:4,4 255:12,15,18 263:5,18,20 264:10 265:13 269:4,13 270:10 272:12 276:7,11 281:17 283:2 285:10 318:13 321:10 324:5 324:13,15,18 325:3,6,10 326:10 327:7 328:7 330:21 342:11,14,15 342:15 343:14 345:1,2 349:14 349:14 351:2,5 351:6 gong 194:4 good 6:2 10:22 26:7,7 72:3,6,9 73:22 78:13,13 80:18 94:20 98:12 99:9 100:6,12,22 106:2 113:2 116:7,7 119:8 132:9,12 137:2 April 18, 2023 Page 39 137:15 139:22 143:1 144:7 163:17 175:6 177:8 185:19 206:8,9 212:15 232:5 237:16 237:19 240:5 268:16 275:13 286:17 287:4 287:14,19 303:16 307:22 310:12,13 323:14 340:21 343:7 351:9 353:3 goodness 181:7 googled 321:2 gorgeous 159:7 gov 25:4 government 2:19 11:18 governmental 11:19 governors 235:11 grace 55:18 gradually 65:2 graduated 349:1 graduates 201:15 grandfather 300:11 grandfather's 273:14 335:20 338:6 grandmother 305:3 310:20 grandparents 304:12 305:1 grandson 310:18 granted 122:16 graphic 184:12 184:13,14,18 graphics 264:17 grasped 37:9 grasping 36:3 140:17 grateful 13:21 14:9 22:17 263:5 286:1 gratitude 18:6 gravely 54:16 graves 203:17 gravitated 104:17 great 30:13 32:21 52:3 66:7 69:2,2 78:11,13 102:21 109:6 229:15 266:14 297:6 300:16 300:17,20 328:1 344:20 351:19,19,20 greater 73:11 179:10 252:8 greatest 5:14 8:19 12:21 249:7 266:2,10 266:12,14,20 267:5,6,13,20 268:13,22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 277:21 278:11 281:4 294:8 greece 205:17 greetings 73:5 greg 2:13 10:20 96:22 97:8 131:3 151:17 152:8 155:11 158:15 160:16 171:17 229:5 243:13 245:21 281:8,15 302:11,19 330:19 331:9 gregg 204:10 204:12 grew 73:6 ground 308:6 335:5 351:17 groundwork 75:7 group 4:8 9:12 16:18 20:11 47:15 73:15 201:5 207:18 211:6 232:2 235:1 284:18 305:14 328:16 344:3 groups 139:4 139:22 221:22 229:9,14 301:3 growing 262:18 grown 32:5 guarantee 291:20 295:6 Meeting [guard - harriet] guard 256:14 258:17 guess 70:6 111:16 116:19 135:21 171:18 177:21 182:6 267:3,4 276:4 309:20 313:18 316:8 321:20 336:20 guidance 42:17 guide 27:1 32:17 143:14 guiding 42:19 guilty 352:22 gun 308:6 gunboats 107:13 guns 308:6 guys 22:17 244:8 245:3 337:13 h hair 94:4 121:13 148:10 148:14 155:10 168:9 176:9 haitian 53:3 half 28:21 75:15 81:7 90:3 91:10,14 91:21 98:20 101:1 116:1,6 149:2 150:3 155:5 157:18 181:21 249:14 304:5 312:9 April 18, 2023 Page 40 318:9 325:1 326:11,20 333:7,12 336:14 hamid 344:1 345:14 hammer 261:14 hammered 273:15 hammering 180:19 hampered 197:4 hanchock 2:8 10:7,9 209:14 209:17,20 215:12 hand 15:21 16:21 20:13 34:10,16 35:4 37:3 39:6,13 42:17,19 43:7 45:22 49:9 53:14,15,20 54:1,5,9,20 55:8 57:21 64:10 65:7,10 69:18 77:12 78:4,16 81:10 83:10,22 84:8 84:17 89:6 94:22 95:9 96:22 98:13 100:11 112:22 115:11,13 124:11 125:11 129:3,14 135:22 139:4 139:12,16 142:13 151:2 177:3 216:9,14 225:13 243:4 264:2 283:20 299:22 340:9 341:1 hand's 153:3 handed 41:7 hands 35:9 36:3 37:9 47:4 57:15 61:13 68:1 70:21 77:14 108:16 123:14 134:16 135:21 140:17 140:18 142:8,9 145:17 146:18 146:20,22 147:7,10,10,14 147:22 168:20 185:6 261:13 hang 326:7 hanging 255:7 happen 161:18 182:10 279:14 311:19 happened 136:17 203:1 happening 79:20 84:18 182:9 happens 79:19 200:9 happily 193:6 happy 31:1 58:8 72:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 108:6 133:11 140:10 164:22 187:8 253:6 293:16 harcourt 3:13 6:21 52:1 92:4 108:11 122:4 123:11,19 125:4 141:2,4 146:16 169:1 172:22 178:14 180:13 183:2 232:11,13 242:17 267:2 275:17 315:12 hard 96:18 103:19 145:12 147:14 161:13 228:11 288:8 harder 304:5 306:6 harlem 237:14 239:6,7,11 harriet 2:14,21 3:3 5:7 8:13 11:2 12:8,11 25:19 26:10,12 26:15 27:10 28:2 29:8,13 29:22 30:9 31:2 32:8 33:19 34:4,10 34:15,20 35:2 35:10 36:7,12 37:4,22 38:2,3 38:7,15,20 39:4,13,16,22 40:1,13,20,21 Meeting [harriet - highest] 41:4,5,8,11,13 41:18,19 42:3 42:12,16 43:5 44:1 45:4,10 52:13,15 53:20 54:1 58:8 59:4 59:13,22 60:13 64:2 67:19 68:6 73:8 74:2 74:14 75:22 79:12 80:3 87:18 88:2 93:21 100:13 100:18 101:19 104:15 113:9 123:14,21 126:6,17 128:13 129:10 129:19 133:22 134:19 138:8 144:17 148:12 155:9 156:12 156:14 157:21 161:4 163:5 168:9 180:16 181:8 188:12 189:21 202:12 207:7 241:18 269:6 310:1 harriet's 34:11 harriets 188:17 188:18 189:10 harsh 62:10 haves 202:10 hawaii 309:20 he'll 152:5 head 63:4 88:3 88:7 103:14,17 April 18, 2023 Page 41 159:17 186:16 headdress 108:20,20 188:2 headed 178:7 191:10,11 192:8 311:1 heads 347:5 headwrap 148:10,14 health 28:11 hear 57:17 75:18 136:11 145:4 153:10 153:12 189:15 215:4 229:22 236:12 240:6 244:21 245:8 248:14 264:6 322:11 331:9 337:3,7 heard 33:4 87:13 92:15,17 99:10 118:8 130:9,10,11 171:17 202:18 214:6 230:4 231:17 236:3 243:9 267:14 267:18 316:12 hearing 23:14 24:3 47:22 88:18 92:14 96:14 99:17 132:2 146:8 148:17 151:15 167:8 172:15 175:9 176:13 194:20 195:7 228:17 243:20 246:1 248:15 269:22 276:22 281:3 303:19 321:18 336:19 342:3,22 343:3 350:13 354:13 hearings 252:11 heart 54:2,9,15 200:3 319:16 327:22 344:12 347:19 348:7 350:20 heartfelt 195:9 heavily 115:4 held 25:9,13 79:22 283:19 helix 290:10 hellfighters 237:14 hello 83:4 114:8 199:20 292:20 314:8 helmet 348:7 help 26:18 36:13 41:9 42:18 46:12 65:12 95:3 114:10 136:21 228:22 308:9 318:21 helped 74:7 126:8 239:3 286:2 340:19 352:21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 helpful 51:4 73:15 86:4 114:1,19 244:20 246:2 helping 32:17 95:7,13 142:21 helps 51:6 85:20 304:19 hemispheres 291:7 hereto 355:15 356:11 heroes 314:22 347:17 heroism 344:20 hey 223:22 353:5 hi 115:21 137:21 224:5 251:10 high 58:2 97:16 97:21 98:1,2 119:21 131:11 131:20 152:20 153:13,13,16 153:21 154:20 154:20 155:10 155:14 164:2 168:2,15 170:4 201:8,12,15 267:18 281:20 296:14 303:5,5 303:10 330:22 331:7 342:13 344:4 highest 162:19 201:21 272:11 282:2 327:8 Meeting [highlight - honor] highlight 52:12 56:11 81:16 121:21 208:1,1 215:10 289:10 289:12 345:8,9 highlighted 100:20 347:17 highlighting 80:16 289:15 highlights 200:1 hill 2:21 12:7 29:22 30:8 45:3 53:22,22 55:9,11 67:16 73:4,9 92:18 92:18 119:20 127:4,6 147:1 147:5 150:17 155:9 168:8 187:16,20 188:18 190:16 193:1,3 hips 77:14 historian 122:21 historic 223:11 historical 81:17 122:22 190:10,17 205:5 213:17 241:19 historically 40:12 123:7 191:21 212:20 229:2,8,16 313:19 April 18, 2023 Page 42 history 3:16 7:2 18:9 22:21 24:14,16 60:10 117:19 118:4 123:5 124:4 190:22 202:13 203:14 207:19 209:7 223:20 229:17,20 231:1 234:16 268:16 275:19 338:4 hit 341:5 hitting 351:17 hmm 284:2 336:20 hoard 4:6 8:1,2 8:10 15:5 18:19,20 19:10 19:11,18 20:2 20:9,16,21 21:3,7,12,19 21:22 22:2 23:21 72:21 79:6 109:12 118:18,21 125:14 144:1 155:21 162:17 164:3 169:19 170:12 171:13 173:17,21 174:2,4,7,9 175:16,21 176:3,10,19,21 177:2,10,16 179:3,6 184:4 186:1,4 187:18 188:17 193:20 224:17,20 225:19 238:11 277:14,15 294:1,13 295:8 295:10 315:4 316:18,21 329:20 333:15 337:7,11 350:8 350:17 352:4 hockey 14:17 hoe 261:15 hoist 119:6 hold 9:8 307:14 holding 38:20 39:4 40:2 53:20 118:14 121:3 129:4 216:8 217:20 256:5 258:1 260:22 261:14 319:22 324:1 324:11,12 338:3 339:13 339:22 holly 3:10 13:1 251:6,9 269:16 300:4,8 329:6 337:12 343:9 holly's 301:2 homage 290:5 home 2:21 12:8 18:13 29:8,13 29:22 38:2 39:22 40:22 41:5,19,21 42:13 43:5 44:1 59:6 60:9 87:18 88:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 101:19 109:21 120:7,8 180:19 197:1 206:21 218:11 249:21 261:14,20 262:17 272:19 272:19 273:15 296:15 304:6 304:13 305:5,5 305:21 306:10 311:2,6,22 314:2,4 318:10 318:14 319:8 319:19 321:12 325:8 326:16 326:21 327:3 333:12 336:22 337:18 339:16 340:5 341:9 homestead 28:10 314:1 hometown 305:8 homework 108:3 231:11 honest 55:7 56:1 128:10 188:1 honestly 277:15 honor 6:15 8:5 13:19 14:7 15:19 16:13 19:19 67:13 201:21 207:17 253:10 259:14 259:22 261:2 261:11 277:11 Meeting [honor - images] 314:22 344:20 honored 67:12 252:13 honoree 194:13 honoring 210:4 210:11 254:11 255:2 257:8 259:4 honors 64:2 249:19 hope 30:11 37:14 93:19 233:20,20 289:22 hopefully 18:4 207:5 hopes 268:2 hoping 312:22 337:7 horizon 39:1 40:7 horizontal 236:18 hospital 55:21 239:7,7,11 hour 198:1,4 hours 59:4 180:22 273:21 296:11 house 3:14 4:2 6:21 7:4 59:4 housed 223:13 houses 306:16 308:15 310:4 320:21 336:11 housing 320:15 320:16 329:10 April 18, 2023 Page 43 howard 8:9 15:5 ht 34:9,15,19 34:19 35:1,2,9 35:20 37:21,21 38:14 39:12 40:19,21 41:7 huge 93:21 111:19 hugely 67:14 human 68:11 74:16 75:2 140:16 143:4,8 humanitarian 345:14 346:17 humanity 74:6 74:16,21 142:21 humble 239:3 humility 259:14 261:2 261:11 hundreds 344:6 hung 326:8 hurting 197:2 husband 18:13 239:9 hyphen 143:17 i iconic 32:1 223:15 297:1,2 idea 62:18,19 84:19 103:3 115:10 142:8 157:6 175:6 292:9 293:13 293:15 311:20 312:1 315:2 322:6 325:2,6 330:7 332:3 341:7 353:1,3 ideal 329:14 idealistic 329:14 ideals 119:14 ideas 109:13 211:18,22 212:1 identified 34:2 87:11 100:6 identify 51:16 328:16 ii 3:10 13:2 110:20 199:7 200:6,14 201:10 221:20 222:22 246:7 249:15,17,18 250:14 251:1,2 251:7,13,14 252:13 253:8 253:13 254:1,5 254:6,9,12,15 254:21 255:6,9 256:4,14,19,21 257:2,5,9,16 257:22 258:9 258:12 259:2,7 259:9,19,21 260:3,11,14,17 261:16 262:1 262:10,13,21 263:3,11 264:12,16 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 268:10 271:5 276:13 277:21 283:3,6 306:2 307:21 308:20 311:2 315:10 317:13 320:4,4 320:17 323:6,8 325:16,18 327:14 333:8 335:4 338:6 339:9 illegible 50:11 142:5 illusion 275:7 illustrated 84:6 illustration 208:2 illustrations 107:12 209:6 image 65:16 93:10,13,14 94:1 100:11,12 102:3 106:2 141:7 148:2,12 148:13 159:16 184:12,13,14 188:21 189:5 203:22 204:6 210:21 222:11 223:5 246:9 297:1,2 306:14 313:19 323:19 328:19 imagery 37:17 156:14 166:7 166:15,17 images 49:12 67:2 92:20 Meeting [images - indigent] 120:21 147:7 188:22 192:9 202:14 208:4 208:22 209:9 209:12,21 212:11 241:22 246:17,17 247:15 248:5 imagination 63:10 76:20 imagine 76:15 imagined 217:13 immediately 84:3 233:13 immense 207:1 imminently 264:19 immortalized 52:18 impact 207:3 207:19 209:7 238:6 impactful 104:5 159:16 impacting 204:19,22 implore 309:19 importance 74:5 134:19 143:4 144:16 345:9 important 14:11 30:16 52:13 54:21 56:6 59:8,19 60:1,14 67:14 68:17,21 69:16 April 18, 2023 Page 44 81:15,18 84:22 85:15 86:1,18 87:1,17 92:15 93:12 94:2 104:19 110:8 117:13 118:2,5 122:2 127:10 127:10,11 134:20 139:11 142:2,6 144:14 144:22 145:2 146:1 148:8,11 157:9 165:8 182:2 189:19 189:22 190:7,9 190:12 198:22 202:12,22 208:10 210:13 220:15 231:8 238:5 245:5 250:17 279:20 315:10 350:11 impose 269:8 imposters 240:16 impressed 33:8 207:6 252:4 impression 315:16 improve 34:3 87:12 242:19 improvement 336:16 improvements 121:18 inappropriate 301:15 336:14 inappropriately 94:6 inarticulate 127:20 inch 75:14 283:2 incident 59:17 inclination 278:18 include 33:18 39:2,18 40:4 46:16 51:20 120:4 176:9,11 190:21 305:14 349:2 included 22:9 42:2 246:17 248:5,7 340:6 includes 8:7 34:21 40:6 41:11,13 42:18 42:21 256:9 257:16 including 15:12 27:14 28:8 35:12 59:16 179:18 266:3 314:4 344:5 inclusion 42:15 inclusive 301:9 inclusivity 299:11 incongruity 164:12 incongruous 180:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 incorporate 274:17 329:21 incorporated 12:9 29:8 204:1 incorporates 274:11 incorrect 20:7 increase 199:5 increasing 249:22 increasingly 27:6 incremental 14:18 incuse 349:2 incused 47:1,9 137:2 345:19 345:20 346:5 347:4 348:20 349:1 independent 31:5 134:22 156:6 285:9 independently 161:11,15 indiana 60:5 indicate 9:15 185:9 186:9 indicated 44:8 205:21 241:18 345:4 347:13 indicates 221:13 323:5 indicating 58:1 indigent 41:20 55:17 Meeting [individual - international] individual 101:9 135:3 229:11,18 231:21,22 232:19 316:15 individually 75:9 207:17 210:1 individuals 16:19 20:11 48:12 indulgence 64:21 industrial 260:10 infinitely 295:3 infirmary 54:6 infirmed 55:19 influence 89:12 info 25:4,5 353:20 information 85:13 90:20 98:19 132:15 158:14 163:13 168:17 190:13 192:6 213:7 230:15 237:21 242:8 infused 157:16 initial 22:19 92:9 266:9 269:19 278:17 initially 269:12 innovation 37:8 66:18 181:5 231:15 innovative 113:6 114:4 160:21 163:10 231:14 innovator 294:19 input 212:7,19 236:2 inscribe 49:14 inscribed 217:2 255:17 258:20 inscription 34:21 36:15 37:5,15 38:4 39:15,21 42:1 42:18 137:2 216:19 217:4 241:17 246:7 253:16,17 254:3,6,11,15 254:16,18 255:1 256:9 258:5 259:4 260:14 261:20 262:13,19 266:4 305:18 346:3,9,14 347:19 inscriptions 33:19 34:22 36:10 39:2,17 40:4,16 42:9 42:22 43:7 202:8,15 208:4 208:22 209:3,9 217:16,21 218:6,13,21 219:6 241:19 April 18, 2023 Page 45 244:21 247:6 247:12 255:8 256:7,21 257:4 258:3,17 259:11,14,21 260:16 261:1,5 261:10 262:4 262:22 263:4 283:6 345:16 345:22 346:4 346:20 inside 256:3,5 257:21 258:1 insider 233:2 insight 245:3 insignia 221:12 228:11,13 258:15 inspecting 223:16 inspection 223:14,15 228:3,5 inspiration 268:2 inspire 250:12 268:5 inspired 60:12 203:3 255:7 256:18 258:9 260:2 268:11 inspiring 61:7 271:1 273:3 instances 229:13 instantly 292:4 instructions 27:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 instructs 26:13 integral 229:7 integrity 265:1 intended 196:21 intent 207:15 209:2 219:22 intention 266:9 interaction 74:12 143:5,8 interest 15:7 184:15 203:9 204:8 243:8 330:8 353:22 interested 22:13,16 79:9 101:2 184:19 355:15 356:12 interesting 115:12,13 159:2 201:7 234:4,6,14,15 235:7,17 266:6 267:7,15,21 272:2 278:15 285:15,16 293:12 295:15 299:8 interests 14:4 intergovernm... 2:12 10:17 intern 19:5 internal 239:8 international 9:3 18:21 289:11 343:18 344:1 345:15 Meeting [internationalize - joseph] internationali... 340:19 internet 59:21 interpret 53:16 182:8 192:5 334:7 interpretation 67:20 226:18 335:17 339:7 interpretative 340:7 interpreted 95:10 interrogated 240:22 interrupted 64:20 intimately 15:10 introduce 6:14 26:1 29:16,20 196:11 251:8 introduced 33:7 introduction 5:4 15:2 26:9 29:21 invented 207:16 invested 16:19 20:12 339:16 invite 13:18 18:3 invited 14:6 invites 290:15 inviting 80:21 80:21 involved 76:5,7 76:9 92:22 107:16 206:20 293:20 304:14 304:16 305:9 involvement 112:16 305:21 ipad 68:19 ironclad 104:20 107:15 116:12,12,16 123:1 ironworker 294:20 isis 344:2 isolated 96:4 issue 24:5 172:4 249:13 273:15 334:19 335:12 336:13 349:17 issued 102:9 118:16 233:19 issues 13:6 208:1,2 it'd 111:3 270:20 it'll 220:14 291:11 item 24:4,17 25:18 196:4 239:5 249:6 343:12,13 iterations 282:16 iwo 210:8 297:1 April 18, 2023 Page 46 j jacket 37:19 228:8 jackson 4:4 7:20,21 8:9 15:2,9,9,13,16 16:3,5,7,8,12 17:2,8,13,19 17:22 18:5,16 23:20 69:9,11 72:22 83:4,5 114:8,9 141:15 141:15 169:17 184:2 237:20 237:20 276:20 276:20 292:20 292:21 314:8,9 jamaica 53:2 109:3 japanese 299:14 309:21 jennifer 2:11 9:5,10 10:16 133:4 215:18 216:4 307:15 jersey 59:22 jima 210:8 297:1 job 1:21 45:14 48:22 67:6 72:6 95:13 110:18 232:15 308:4,5 joe 46:20 48:6 51:3 62:2,4 88:18 120:18 120:19 129:17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 130:5 149:7,12 149:14 151:10 264:12 265:6 279:9 294:10 301:13 335:15 348:18 joe's 338:5 john 4:2 7:5 75:18,18,19 91:5,6 92:4 115:20,21 135:13 148:16 149:15 165:3 169:5 173:4 183:13 187:4 223:18 236:20 270:19 273:13 279:13 283:17 285:8 286:20 307:12,13,19 322:5 332:11 336:3 341:11 352:9 john's 122:20 join 16:2,18 20:10 39:7,9 52:15 140:10 joined 12:7,15 12:22 27:13 120:1 226:12 joining 154:5 227:1 249:22 joint 235:11 jointly 75:9 joseph 2:9 10:10 47:8 48:20 50:4 191:13 264:15 Meeting [joseph - know] 294:17 348:22 journey 26:21 27:6 31:9 35:15 36:13 37:2 joy 33:6 jr 3:2 12:9 62:20 240:18 juice 292:17 jump 73:18 317:16,16 jumped 138:2 justice 41:16 42:11 43:2 261:3 k k 344:2 kabul 345:16 345:22 346:3 346:10,10,19 346:20 347:3 348:8 kansas 24:11 203:8 karat 210:11 karen 2:21 12:7 29:21 30:6 31:18 32:6 45:2 53:21,22 92:18 karzai 9:3 343:17 344:1 345:15 keep 51:15 92:19 109:20 111:14 113:10 117:18 132:8 April 18, 2023 Page 47 132:12 133:19 160:22 166:15 181:3 189:22 190:12 224:20 230:8 270:2 282:11 312:18 333:11 keeping 103:19 122:9 221:10 245:3 330:7 kellen 4:6 8:1,9 15:5 18:19 19:10 23:4 72:21 79:5 90:8 109:11 117:16 125:13 132:11 143:22 155:22 161:7 162:16 169:18 173:16,20 175:15 176:20 184:3 186:3 193:19 238:10 277:13,14 293:22 315:3 319:10 333:14 336:4 337:6 kellen's 122:5 132:11 keown 3:2 12:9 30:1 31:18 67:16 73:10 94:8,8 119:10 189:18 keown's 113:8 kept 271:11 key 42:5 136:4 138:14,15 139:18,20 190:4 278:12 kid 304:17 kidding 351:8 killed 198:16 216:18 kind 14:14 62:20 66:12 74:2 78:7 79:21 80:10 81:1,5,11,18 82:6,17 83:12 91:15 95:4 101:5,20 103:13 108:22 109:12 110:21 111:1 116:13 116:18 117:5 119:5 124:21 125:16 135:14 137:13 144:4,5 144:13 145:8 145:11,11,14 159:15 163:10 180:17 181:5 190:7 191:22 192:1 220:11 226:20 228:10 247:20 277:16 278:14 279:22 284:8 285:3 287:21 290:11 291:9 295:16 295:22 308:18 311:11 312:2 315:4,16 317:21 326:2 333:16,17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 340:12 kindly 53:20 kinds 59:11 60:8 king 62:20 223:13 knew 120:3,13 230:19 251:22 308:4 knocked 76:13 know 22:15 30:17,18 44:15 45:6,20 46:2 53:12 54:18 55:4 56:2,4 58:15 59:10,16 62:2 69:4,5,17 70:2,6,6,7,8,12 70:19,21 71:7 71:8,17,18,21 72:1,5,6,6,8 76:19 77:4 78:6 83:8 89:17,22 90:2 90:22 92:4 93:5,7,11 94:7 95:9 96:5 97:19 100:19 101:2,7,11 102:3,7,11 103:2,10,13,16 107:16 108:2,3 108:14,15,16 108:17 109:5,7 110:11,19 111:16 113:21 114:18 117:9 119:10 122:14 Meeting [know - landed] 122:16 123:2 124:8,11,13,20 125:1,3,17 127:17,17 128:9,10 130:3 132:12 134:10 134:12 135:21 136:3 138:19 138:20 139:3,4 139:6,9,11,13 139:21,22,22 140:3 141:5,10 142:11 143:18 145:8,12 146:18 147:18 147:20,20 148:5,12 150:17 151:6,7 152:4 156:9 157:2,17,21 159:7,8,8,9,18 159:18,20,21 163:2,16 165:10,12,17 166:11 172:22 179:14,21 180:8 181:3 182:6 188:3 189:6 191:3,10 192:20 194:12 200:2,8,17 205:9,10 207:13 208:11 210:17 212:10 214:20 215:19 221:16 223:2,7 223:17,22 225:9 228:7 April 18, 2023 Page 48 231:19 232:17 233:6,6 234:2 234:3,10,13,13 234:14,15,17 234:17,21,22 235:1,3,5,6,12 235:15 238:22 239:18 240:18 240:19 242:1 245:3 267:13 268:3 269:10 269:17 271:11 272:1,2,4 275:3 278:7 279:14,16,17 279:21 280:1,9 280:11,11,17 283:6 284:18 285:1 286:9,9 286:11 287:3,4 287:13 289:12 289:13 290:6,9 290:13 292:2 298:16,16 299:19 301:6 301:10 304:17 305:2,8 306:4 309:21 310:10 311:6,13 313:20,21,22 313:22 315:16 318:21 322:2,4 322:7,16 323:15,18,22 324:2 325:9,15 325:17 326:8 326:14 328:1,5 328:8 329:9,13 329:14 333:10 334:16,17,18 334:20 335:3,4 335:6 336:19 336:20 337:19 338:9,17 339:20 341:11 351:20,20,21 351:22 352:12 knowing 15:20 knowledge 32:4 38:17 355:10 356:6 known 8:18 54:14,18 93:17 163:6 196:8,17 246:10 knows 317:10 317:10 kotlowski 3:15 7:2,3 43:16,17 44:2 47:20 56:21,22 57:6 57:8 58:6 73:20 92:3,3 100:2,3 105:8 118:11,12 123:18,18 124:19,20 133:16,17 149:13 156:2,4 156:4 158:4 169:4 173:3 175:4,4 178:15 178:15,21 180:7,8 183:12 185:17 186:21 194:3 230:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 230:14 243:18 268:8,9 272:9 272:14,17,21 285:21,22 310:16,17 311:18 327:2,2 331:9,12,14,19 332:5 334:4 336:19 337:3 337:20 338:5 338:11 340:18 352:17,19 354:8 kristie 2:4 9:16 kudos 73:4 l labeled 269:1 labels 268:11 labor 261:16 lack 143:7 197:2 lacking 224:22 ladies 130:13 235:21 244:2 246:14,18 247:1,1,2 305:2 307:11 340:16 342:9 353:11 laid 75:6 119:15 lakers 351:7 land 256:8 257:13 258:4 295:10 landed 190:10 Meeting [landscape - liaison's] landscape 35:7 lane 301:16 340:11 lapel 219:15 220:3 lappers 160:17 laptop 331:16 large 45:18 47:13 48:9 62:14,16 141:7 144:4 163:18 163:19 213:7 216:15 238:6 261:18 larger 279:2 280:17,18 largest 61:19 133:21 larry 323:22 lasted 316:2 lasting 213:1 latched 207:20 late 317:6,7 laurel 256:5 258:1 laurels 254:2 law 25:21 26:9 94:16 196:9,14 215:20 249:9 249:12 300:11 343:18 lawrence 1:5 2:3 8:3 laws 27:5 lawyer 182:7 layer 83:16 lead 27:20 34:16 38:11 April 18, 2023 Page 49 129:10 226:16 336:21 343:19 leader 3:17,19 4:3 7:5,8,11 27:17 28:13 32:1 39:3 40:6 72:6 80:6 81:18 94:11 111:5 120:3 181:7 204:6,7 210:22 221:11 221:11 232:1 239:19 leaders 27:15 leadership 36:21 64:3 95:5,5 190:4 190:14 225:16 236:14 335:9 343:10 leading 27:11 35:8 36:8 40:14 56:13 263:12 leads 35:3 129:7 leaf 284:6 league 24:15 leagues 24:7,8 lean 118:6 266:18 276:9 298:9 leaning 115:8 141:19 276:21 leann 356:2,15 learn 180:3 learned 32:3 76:20 95:2 329:17 learning 203:15 231:4 299:6 leave 117:14,15 168:10 246:5 305:6 leavenworth 203:7 leaves 63:10 108:19 187:10 led 151:7 204:18 260:6 lee 204:10 222:16 223:18 leeway 61:20 left 63:11 103:10 202:4 208:13 321:11 leftwards 264:17 legacy 26:13 31:3,5 legal 2:13 10:20 43:13 48:4 51:10 219:10 263:17 265:8 legend 308:14 313:11 338:19 341:8 legends 308:13 308:22 legibility 277:7 legible 50:13 legislation 211:5 266:8 323:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 legislative 2:11 10:17 11:19 lemond 229:5 length 100:10 lengthened 88:14 lesson 85:11 lessons 110:10 letter 44:7 174:21 216:14 242:22 letters 5:5 8:10 23:12,15 196:20 216:15 347:16 level 108:15 179:10,15 201:11 295:21 liaison 2:12 9:5 10:18 61:2 85:21 162:21 199:9 205:1,15 206:16 213:19 213:20 214:17 214:17 215:13 215:15 237:16 238:15 253:19 275:12,22 278:7 279:6 303:20 337:9 338:1 liaison's 254:7 255:3,10 258:6 259:16,17 260:18,19 262:6 263:1,13 270:16 275:6 283:10 305:15 Meeting [liaison's - little] 307:2 313:2 liaisons 12:4 13:5 29:16,20 34:6,14 35:1 36:2,18 38:14 39:11 40:10 41:17 44:21 45:17 46:4,8,8 46:9,22 51:21 52:8,9 53:11 58:11 63:22 66:22 67:16 72:15 73:4 75:4,6 83:6 85:18 87:16 92:14 99:15 100:5,17 107:4 112:10 118:8 118:19 121:20 123:21 125:1 129:17,20 130:11 134:7,8 138:7 143:10 143:13 146:13 150:16 156:10 160:20 161:3 181:20 182:3,8 192:19 193:7 193:11,22 194:5 195:10 199:9 214:21 214:22 215:3 217:9 219:2 229:22 230:15 231:9 232:16 236:2 238:20 240:7 243:8 244:16 255:20 April 18, 2023 Page 50 264:11 307:8 347:6 348:13 liberation 257:2 liberty 28:13 33:20 35:7 64:7,14 80:22 81:7,7,12 94:5 261:3,20 263:8 294:7 327:15 327:18 lieutenant 204:12,16 223:18 240:4 life 27:5 28:3 28:14,16,18,19 29:1 30:22 32:5,15 41:9 54:10 58:16 59:18 67:1 73:9,10,14 74:8 80:8,16 95:6,7 109:14 126:21 129:19 129:20 135:6 137:13 142:10 145:19 148:1 150:18 156:15 181:1 190:6 200:2 315:12 320:14 life's 41:10 lifting 145:17 225:14 light 56:16 117:3 132:7 175:5 193:10 200:21 lightning 283:20,21 liked 65:18 96:2 100:17 101:20 105:1,2 125:15 158:21 159:1 192:15 236:22 237:2 284:12,17 291:13 294:3 336:10 likely 34:1 47:9 50:10 85:9 86:5 88:3 207:19 likeness 121:17 146:22 335:5 likenesses 34:3 87:12 likes 289:10 liking 103:13 limit 102:19 111:12 333:19 limited 55:4 59:4 110:1 170:4,19 180:2 211:20 240:20 245:11,12 limiting 172:1 line 38:4,5 39:1 232:2 237:12 238:12 315:4 lineage 186:14 lined 223:16 lines 160:17 166:20 167:1 217:13 221:1 290:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 linguist 240:22 lining 40:7 list 2:2 119:21 145:8 246:5 listen 78:19 134:7 181:20 244:17 247:7 listened 202:11 207:6 234:22 listening 6:13 18:14 78:21 102:15 160:19 237:15 299:7 listing 296:1 lists 145:7 295:13 literacy 201:11 literal 122:8,9 literally 114:3 121:3 127:18 140:17 little 45:16 58:20 60:4,22 64:21 68:3 70:4 77:21 78:20 80:10,21 82:11,15,21 84:11 85:7 88:13 100:10 100:13 101:12 106:14 107:7,9 107:13 108:18 114:13,17,21 116:9 117:2 131:6,16 134:12 136:1,2 136:22 140:14 141:21 142:19 Meeting [little - lot] 144:6,11 145:12 147:13 147:17,17 152:17 154:10 154:18 156:18 157:13,14,20 162:1 179:19 180:19,20 183:3 214:22 220:10 223:7 227:8 236:11 266:6 267:17 271:22 273:11 275:2 281:22 282:6 285:14 285:15 286:10 287:11 288:1 288:20 289:2 290:19 293:2,8 301:9 302:4 303:9 305:8 313:10 314:1 315:15 318:1 319:22 321:20 324:5 327:21 335:1,2 336:21 337:4 352:22 live 55:18 166:20 284:15 lived 30:18 41:22 54:1,10 55:1 58:22 60:5 192:15 lives 253:13 344:20 345:11 living 28:3 119:14 127:8 214:8 280:3 April 18, 2023 Page 51 liz 230:19 llc 4:8 9:12 lobby 167:9 local 15:17 346:17 located 208:12 250:5 location 39:14 277:10 locations 197:4 lon 53:3 lonely 74:3 long 27:6 59:2 105:16 140:1 193:3 207:20 207:20 212:20 212:22 241:15 245:10 296:14 longer 238:7 305:17 look 18:2 21:17 23:6 24:14 41:3 56:3 68:17 71:8,10 73:1 77:3,7,8 77:11,13,15 79:22 80:1 86:4 88:13 94:7 102:7 103:5 108:19 123:6 125:20 137:12,15 141:6 178:7 179:19 186:10 187:10 188:1 190:20 192:11 195:14 212:16 225:7 231:17 234:15 247:15 269:20 271:2 280:9,12 288:22 290:14 291:1,2,2 292:1 294:6 297:12 299:17 320:21 321:5 325:16 327:12 340:4 looked 62:4,22 69:11 78:9 83:17 137:8 189:1 227:15 236:22 276:7 288:19,20 304:22 looking 35:3 46:13 56:14 58:12 60:17 62:2 66:3 77:17 95:21 101:12,13 114:9,11 138:13 141:5 141:21 144:7 161:13 163:17 212:14,15 235:2 242:16 252:16 265:20 265:21 271:1 274:2 277:5 286:12 288:21 292:3,22 293:13,14 296:5 297:15 299:7 311:6,7 315:12 325:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 333:22 336:7 348:21 looks 29:1 48:17 65:11 78:13 103:11 187:11 271:1 308:18 316:1 325:13 looming 62:16 looms 62:14 loop 139:9 280:12 looping 142:7 loose 247:20 lord 318:22 lose 65:3 291:21 326:16 losers 161:21 165:14 losing 164:19 325:21 loss 198:15 319:21 320:7 321:14,21 328:9 334:9 lost 27:8 36:16 65:4 68:2 89:19 216:12 272:3 292:5 319:19,20 326:12 345:10 346:6 lot 30:17 58:12 58:13 59:10 61:19 62:10 78:1 79:9,18 88:10 94:17 96:1 100:3 Meeting [lot - making] 107:2 110:5,18 116:19 117:6 118:12 128:10 134:18 135:16 137:6 140:20 148:7 150:19 150:20,21 157:3,3,11,15 165:10 180:10 180:10 188:4 191:4 204:8 206:17 221:22 266:19 273:5 277:19,19 278:2 293:18 294:1 299:6,8 302:5 304:7 311:3 312:15 313:7 314:17 317:10 322:18 329:17 352:13 love 12:3,3 57:16,16,17 58:15 60:18,18 60:19 61:12 103:20 115:16 125:4,4 181:1 289:20 308:22 316:13 319:11 327:20 loved 138:10 160:20 181:2 low 199:4 201:11 218:1,7 218:21 lower 37:10,13 loyal 119:17 April 18, 2023 Page 52 luckily 307:22 lunch 195:17 245:4 luncheons 305:4 luther 62:19 m ma'am 230:7 machine 308:6 308:6 340:12 made 27:6,10 67:6 108:15 121:13 124:4 132:11 166:15 169:11 190:1 199:5 209:4 215:6,19 226:15 233:20 237:1 277:1 289:1 307:20 318:16 352:11 magazine 22:6 22:10 magnitude 225:17 mail 22:8 197:1 197:2,5,8,10 198:2,3,6,7,12 198:12 199:4 200:7,11 216:11 217:20 218:1,4,7,15 218:17,20,21 219:6 227:21 239:1 246:13 246:19 247:11 247:11 mailed 227:16 main 191:22 192:3 233:6,17 maintaining 251:2 maintains 264:22 maintenance 252:1 major 197:18 198:1 216:22 217:12,17 219:15 236:12 239:6 274:11 majority 3:17 7:8 162:4 205:11 324:15 make 13:19 14:14 31:13 48:14 55:17 58:13 69:1 70:10 75:20 77:11 85:19 86:4 91:4 93:16,19 94:7 94:18 95:16 98:18 103:9,10 104:8 105:19 107:6 111:2 122:19 123:20 132:6,17 139:15,16 142:5 149:3 153:8 155:3 170:14,16 171:4,10 173:21 175:16 178:16 188:5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 188:13 190:19 194:11 207:3 210:20 229:4 231:7 234:14 235:4,5 238:2 242:12,22 244:10 245:19 252:12 264:19 265:3 270:17 276:16 278:10 279:19 291:11 299:5,19 301:18,18 302:8 312:9 317:13 322:1 327:5 330:1,9 331:14 332:18 339:19 349:20 349:22 maker 158:2 159:22 178:19 193:19 332:8 338:21 341:18 makes 81:14 144:5 160:22 171:10 184:9 202:15 224:10 234:10,11 242:9 246:3 252:21 265:1 271:20 275:20 313:13 320:1 making 91:12 92:8,8 102:16 152:20 160:2 235:10 282:2 286:16 303:5 303:10 308:6 Meeting [making - meditate] 331:19 351:15 351:18 male 93:7 mall 250:5 man 157:4 247:19 339:15 manage 31:5,6 management 26:1 108:2 management's 48:22 manager 2:7,8 2:10 9:22 10:2 10:5,8,13 manages 287:14 managing 72:7 manpower 311:1 manufacturing 261:18 map 39:13 109:5,6 115:12 216:19 march 8:11 15:3 23:13 198:18 217:14 223:12 marched 224:11 marching 227:22 228:2 marine 256:15 258:18 344:11 marines 256:16 258:14,18 mark 25:10 253:9,17 April 18, 2023 Page 53 254:17 marked 111:15 market 261:16 298:21 marketing 298:19 marks 58:2 257:11 maroons 53:2 109:2 marquis 192:16 married 120:6 239:9 241:2 martin 62:19 marvin 222:16 maryland 26:16,22 58:22 59:13,20 master 211:19 matches 166:10 matching 50:20 matter 43:9 195:6 284:15 matters 25:7 248:14 matthew 1:20 355:2,17 max 245:19 mc 288:20 mcauliffe 194:15 mcnally 2:4 9:16,17 15:22 16:1,4,6 17:6 17:10,16,22 19:9 20:5,7,10 20:19 21:1,5,9 21:15,20 22:1 mcnutt 311:1 meagan 269:11 mean 12:3 62:7 63:7 70:17 77:10,12,19 82:14 91:11 103:2,20 121:2 128:4 139:10 139:20 150:6 159:9 165:14 166:22 181:6 186:16 193:8 206:12 224:18 225:6 231:20 244:17 268:19 272:1 299:13 299:16 301:10 306:17 315:9 317:22 322:2 325:13 334:4 meaning 69:20 308:15 means 28:7 53:19 97:13 271:14 meant 104:15 155:19 250:12 330:8 mechanism 90:9 medal 2:16,18 5:10,17 8:15 8:22 11:4,10 12:13 196:5,15 201:22 203:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 207:16 208:20 221:6 229:20 231:3 233:19 234:5,12 235:18 257:3 257:11 259:19 283:2 286:21 288:12 292:10 298:18,20 318:6,15 325:14 327:22 335:4,17,19 338:6 343:14 351:2 medallic 4:4 7:20 13:14 15:4,12 16:17 19:21 medallion 328:21 medals 229:2,8 229:17 234:7 234:13,18 351:6 media 4:7,8 9:11,12 medical 54:7 239:11,14 240:20 medicinal 38:17 106:1 medicine 108:22 109:3 117:21 118:1 188:1 239:8 meditate 334:10 Meeting [meet - meritorious] April 18, 2023 Page 54 meet 209:1 15:6 33:8 meeting 1:1 6:3 49:18 51:15,18 6:13 8:7,12 9:7 52:6 68:22 14:13 23:12 88:17 89:15 25:9,12 44:9 90:7 97:11 44:13 64:22 101:3 117:9 87:12 97:12,12 130:10 133:12 195:10,11 135:12 146:13 243:12 351:13 146:14,17 354:2,3,3,5,15 150:15 158:21 354:17 159:1 196:6,15 meetings 78:21 198:15,17,18 235:9 354:4 205:12 206:10 meets 50:12 206:11,17 megan 2:5 9:18 214:8 216:10 25:21 196:10 216:12,17,22 202:7 203:16 218:16 230:1,6 206:13 214:14 230:7 234:3 214:20 219:14 245:6 246:6 249:10 272:10 249:3 251:15 325:5 337:14 253:15 270:1 343:19 349:7 279:9 281:3 megan's 212:6 286:1 298:15 member 13:10 315:5 321:15 13:14 14:2,4 345:5 347:9,22 15:3 16:16 351:11,14,15 19:6,21 20:2,8 353:14,17 90:1 186:7 memorial 3:11 191:18 205:16 13:2 249:15,18 216:13 217:19 250:3,7,12,16 218:14 219:5 251:1,3,7,13 220:9 278:1 251:14,16,19 300:11 326:12 252:1,7,7,12 326:17 339:22 252:15 253:9 members 5:4 253:11,18 5:10 6:8,15 8:8 254:5,7,10,15 8:16 9:6 11:10 254:21 255:1,6 12:14 14:12 255:13,17 256:4,19,21 257:22 258:10 259:2,4,8,9 260:3,14 262:1 262:3,13,21 263:4,11,21,22 270:21 273:3 273:10,21 276:15,16 283:7 284:14 288:17 289:3 293:10 306:8 309:9 310:11 310:11 312:6 320:4,4 323:6 323:12 326:1 333:8,9 339:9 341:14 memorializing 279:18 memorials 312:7 men 27:18 39:9 268:1 344:10 menna 2:9 10:10,12 47:3 47:8,8 48:20 48:20 50:4,4 51:8 62:2 88:22 120:17 120:19,19 121:2,7 128:14 128:16 149:14 149:14 150:1,4 150:7,9 151:12 184:7,9 185:1 191:13,13,20 192:10 228:19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 228:22 264:15 264:15 265:7 279:11 294:12 294:17,17 295:9 301:15 303:21 335:14 335:15 340:11 348:22,22 mental 17:11 17:14 21:5,7 mentally 208:15 mention 33:17 52:22 57:12 84:2,13 mentioned 16:8 19:11 61:7 64:5 82:10 109:1 118:13 140:13 144:10,15 189:19 196:14 211:7 219:14 224:12 228:6 255:20 274:6 277:18 295:13 310:21 315:12 325:20 329:11 mentioning 115:22 merchant 256:16 258:14 258:18 merit 307:5 352:13 meritorious 199:1 226:8 Meeting [mess - mm] mess 292:1 message 56:6 135:2 167:10 messaging 61:17 62:12 125:7 157:10 met 44:12 metal 192:11 235:16 262:18 304:16 328:14 metals 16:19 20:12 49:19 metaphor 62:21 metaphorical 120:22 metaphorically 127:17 methodist 31:4 mic 307:15 michael 2:10 2:20 10:13 11:21 microphone 6:10 319:7 332:13 microscope 140:2,4 microsoft 6:10 mid 204:17 middle 226:21 midwesterner 60:4 mike 3:17 4:8 7:8 9:11 64:18 67:18 73:3,16 75:13 88:18 105:13 106:22 April 18, 2023 Page 55 136:7,7,8 141:8 149:2 151:11 152:4 167:19,20 168:3,16 169:7 170:9,10 172:12,14 173:6 183:15 237:9,11 276:2 276:4 279:9 280:21 290:17 294:18 295:7 301:13 316:19 316:22 317:2 319:1,2 332:7 332:11,21 335:10 342:5 352:22 353:5 mike's 78:5 322:6 miles 73:7 military 27:15 100:19 102:13 106:5 117:13 126:2 180:17 200:10 201:20 202:2,3,22 227:9,15 229:13,14 232:4 239:1,12 247:22 298:8 304:11,19 321:8 325:14 military's 200:7 milked 147:21 million 198:7 246:14 249:19 326:15 millions 196:20 197:7 mind 30:7 74:19 78:20 91:8 92:19 109:13 113:10 123:12,12 167:11 189:22 190:13 245:7 300:10 330:7 mindful 85:10 128:8 minds 89:17 mine 208:1 minor 182:1,1 217:10 219:2 226:22 minority 3:18 4:2 7:5,11 mint 1:10 2:4 9:5,14 13:6 29:11 30:14 33:2,9 34:5 87:14 138:13 199:8 206:11 207:13 208:8 212:22 242:4 244:22 249:13 251:5 298:19 343:10 344:22 353:15 mint's 25:22 155:8 168:10 176:11 283:14 minted 48:10 minting 30:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 minty 26:16 minus 112:6 minute 97:2 195:20,21 281:9 292:17 330:12 minutes 5:5 8:10 23:11,15 51:16 63:17 102:20 103:19 130:15,16 135:13 140:6 151:18,18 230:8 231:6 235:22 244:5 245:18,19 270:2,13 282:12 302:12 307:12 309:13 miserable 311:3 misinterpret 55:8 missed 14:8 77:15 296:6 misshapen 275:8 missing 246:7 317:15 mission 198:10 346:18 missions 29:10 misspoke 105:6 mistake 20:6 mixed 218:4 mixing 50:20 mm 284:2 336:20 Meeting [mnuchin - motion] mnuchin 13:13 14:4 mode 119:19 model 124:7 317:3,4,5,8 models 317:8 moderated 1:5 modern 88:13 138:1 141:17 157:13 modernity 181:5 modification 168:7,9,11 327:7 modifications 209:4 modified 37:18 155:8 264:21 modify 248:16 264:22 mom 15:20 240:19 moment 16:12 19:18 58:10 90:15 92:11 152:5 195:8 momentous 30:9 money 53:8 279:19 monitor 107:19 107:21 month 198:9 250:4 months 197:10 198:8 April 18, 2023 Page 56 monument 3:8 12:18 199:13 203:7 210:8,9 211:1 250:7 274:15,16 285:11 287:15 292:8 296:12 298:4 314:18 316:4 318:18 322:14 323:1 327:18 329:3 333:9 334:6 335:2,4 monumental 282:18,22 monuments 210:3 251:15 274:12,18,20 mood 287:10 moon 35:14 84:7 moral 81:18 250:18 morale 197:2 199:4,5 200:7 204:22 218:1,7 218:22 239:4 moran 3:17 7:8 7:9 64:18,19 67:18 75:13 105:13,15,18 136:7,10,14,21 152:5 167:19 167:19,21 168:18 169:8 170:9,9 172:12 172:13,14 173:7 183:16 237:9,10,11 276:2,3,4 290:17,18 317:1,2,5,9 319:5 331:18 332:7,7,12,16 342:5 353:10 moran's 73:3 morning 6:2 10:22 137:8 206:8,9 moses 36:10 44:17 45:1,8 45:11 62:12,19 101:17 105:2 mother 261:7 308:3 320:13 320:19 mothers 345:1 349:14 motif 218:5 305:13 311:12 motion 23:15 24:3 47:17,22 48:2 51:11 104:8,10 132:3 132:4,7 139:16 142:19 153:8 155:3,21 156:1 158:3 159:22 160:1 162:9,10 162:14 164:1,4 164:7 165:1,3 165:21,22 166:2,5 167:1 167:5,5,7,10 167:12,21 168:2,12,14,21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 169:12,21,22 170:7,11,13,14 170:16 171:5,6 171:10,18 172:8,11,15,16 172:19 173:18 173:20,21 174:15,22 175:7,9,13,15 175:16 176:6,9 176:13,17,17 176:21 177:7,9 177:13 178:12 178:20 181:11 181:12 182:16 183:7 185:5,10 185:16,20 186:13,17,19 187:7 189:14 189:16 193:15 193:17,18,19 193:20 194:11 194:21 195:5 243:14,16,20 244:1 301:7 331:15,22 332:9 333:1,14 334:3 336:6 338:21 341:4 341:14,18,20 341:21 342:3,8 342:18,22 343:4 349:21 349:22 350:3,7 350:9,13,14,18 351:19 352:3 354:6 Meeting [motions - nay] motions 88:17 99:17 132:1 195:5 279:9 330:9 351:10 motto 199:3 mountain 348:8 mountains 346:10,19 347:2 348:8 mountaintop 62:18,20 101:13 mourning 260:22 mouths 297:10 move 15:1 37:16 40:18 89:20 92:2 101:4 126:22 138:17 167:3 170:2 185:18 208:9,10 210:16 212:4,8 212:8,9 216:6 241:22 331:15 340:17 342:12 moved 63:11 135:8 215:17 247:2 279:5 movement 120:2 moves 23:16 186:5 246:2 354:7 movie 203:5 moving 35:19 41:6 60:18 April 18, 2023 Page 57 64:12 65:5 131:15 142:20 154:6,15 218:2 235:22 248:4 254:13 255:19 257:19 260:8 262:7 303:8 308:20 309:13 327:16 331:4 338:9 342:9,10 343:12 345:12 347:7 muddled 68:3 multicultural 94:14 multiethnic 94:15 multiple 24:1 27:14 46:11 48:1 79:13,13 167:13,16 172:17,20 175:11 176:15 182:18,20 194:22 243:21 294:19 342:1 343:2 350:15 352:6 354:11 murky 188:6 museum 3:9 12:20 24:9,9 24:12 59:22 199:14 musical 203:6 musicals 286:12 mute 6:9 130:18 muted 136:8,9 243:6 319:2 n n 2:1 3:1 4:1 5:1,1 6:1 name 6:11,17 9:16 115:6 132:11 138:4 211:7 229:6 266:7 347:18 347:21 named 46:12 204:10 233:8 233:10 names 215:20 347:8,10,11,14 347:15 348:2,5 348:10 nana 53:5 nanny 53:2 109:2 narrative 56:3 85:22 86:3 106:17,21 113:22 142:12 nation 124:12 151:4 205:6 250:9 261:3 262:16 263:5 305:22 337:17 340:3 nation's 117:19 201:21 253:22 national 3:2,10 12:10 13:2 29:6,12 30:1 31:20 35:16 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 36:19 40:10 41:2 42:14 43:4,5,18,21 60:2 67:14 203:20,22 249:18 250:5 250:17,22 251:1,7,13,21 254:21 259:7,9 262:19 306:19 308:14,17,22 322:15,15,17 336:9,15 341:12 native 108:20 114:18 187:14 187:15 188:4 natural 94:4 144:5 148:10 187:22 nature 96:2 141:20 navigating 34:17 navy 256:14 258:17 344:11 nay 48:2 167:15,16 168:22 169:2,4 169:6,8,10 171:5 172:19 172:20 173:1,3 173:11,13,15 173:17 175:13 176:16 182:20 183:10,12,14 183:16,18 195:1,3 243:22 Meeting [nay - number] 342:3 343:3 350:17 352:7 354:12 ncaa 14:17 near 55:13 nearly 195:5 neat 282:17 necessarily 111:12 112:3 121:3 124:15 205:22 229:14 233:6 245:21 245:22 266:16 266:17 269:19 311:12 348:19 necessary 28:7 51:21 79:21 111:6 167:9 169:21 210:20 229:3 301:11 neck 121:22 need 13:7 34:2 37:18 66:4 71:1,9 79:21 84:11 89:19 104:6 111:11 117:2 123:7 130:3,7 139:8 140:1,4 151:3 163:20 166:18 167:18 168:17 168:20 174:15 188:3 189:5 191:5 226:19 245:22 251:22 264:21 276:12 280:12 292:7 309:8 312:5 April 18, 2023 Page 58 317:19 325:1 340:17 341:11 342:10 349:21 needed 14:22 76:1 126:22 needs 95:11 124:15 148:14 181:4 220:10 negative 62:10 70:18 116:20 157:16 nego 24:8 negro 24:7,15 negroes 41:20 neither 45:6 355:11 356:7 nelson 120:7 nervous 176:19 network 26:19 94:13,15 96:6 never 27:8 36:16 80:7 95:13 255:17 267:14,18 298:17 308:3,4 new 5:4 8:8 15:3,6 23:9 28:4 29:8 42:7 54:17,17 58:21 58:21 59:9,22 68:22 73:5,6 163:12,16 180:4 188:10 189:16 234:3 321:2 351:13 newly 27:18 28:7 39:8 197:19 newman 19:5 news 4:8 9:12 305:7,8 newspapers 208:6 304:22 nice 78:17 115:10 141:9 141:22 236:17 270:21 271:1 271:16 276:16 277:11 280:14 287:19 291:11 306:21 314:20 315:2 316:7 317:22 336:2 nicknamed 197:18 night 34:17 37:2 nine 55:16 209:5 nineteen 221:15 nobody's 318:8 nod 84:21 nope 151:14 normally 204:16 285:17 normandy 198:16 203:17 203:18 225:3 230:18 north 36:1,5 52:17 73:7 northwest 1:11 19:7 nos 74:18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 notary 355:18 note 34:1 37:17 49:13 53:5,5 87:6,10,19 88:8 115:5 121:11 125:14 141:16 238:2 305:12 noted 40:11 notes 20:7 52:19 53:4,8 105:20 185:9 notetaking 89:22,22 90:22 92:7 noteworthy 158:15 notice 138:14 noticed 101:19 196:22 notification 319:6 notion 314:2 november 197:12 nowadays 79:10 nuanced 73:11 nudge 137:3 number 30:12 46:15 48:8 61:22 94:10 102:14 105:5 106:15 163:18 163:19 170:19 238:22 265:12 319:11 327:11 Meeting [numbers - obverse] numbers 164:20 167:18 numismatic 3:22 7:17 19:6 19:7,12,15 24:20 235:11 353:17,22 numismatics 3:20 7:14 19:14 numismatist 18:22 19:16 numismatists 19:4 nurse 27:13 38:16 39:2,19 40:5,16 101:16 110:14,16 111:4,8 122:11 127:7 128:1 188:19 nursing 105:22 106:7 o o 5:1 6:1 34:9 34:15,19,19 35:1,2 36:1,6 37:21,21 38:14 40:19,21 oak 255:15 260:9 oath 16:13,15 19:19,20 objection 98:21 320:7 objections 24:2 243:9 April 18, 2023 Page 59 obligation 17:11,14 21:2 21:3 93:10 151:4 observations 291:13 351:19 observed 351:14 obtainable 190:22 obverse 26:2 33:19 34:8 35:17,18 37:4 37:5,16 40:18 49:8 57:2,3,5 63:21,21,21 64:5,14 65:6 66:15 74:11,18 74:19,19,20 75:11 77:10 79:2 80:18 81:4,4 82:14 82:16 83:20 84:16,16 86:12 86:13 96:15 97:15,17,17,18 97:19,20,21,22 99:6,6,22 103:7 104:17 104:22 105:20 107:1,5,9 108:7,8 109:16 111:17,18,18 112:5,11,18,19 113:1 114:9,15 115:1,15 116:4 116:8 118:5,21 121:14,16 122:1 125:10 125:15,16 130:1 131:6,7 131:7,8,9,10 131:12,13,13 131:14 133:20 134:5,6 135:17 137:1,18,22 138:6,18 140:10,15 141:10,16,19 142:17 143:2 143:11 144:2 146:7 148:6 152:11,12,13 152:13,14,15 152:16,19,19 152:22,22 153:1,2,17,17 153:21,22 154:7,8,13,13 154:16,17 155:5,6,7,7 156:8,8,9 159:6 161:19 161:20 162:3 164:11,13,14 164:21 166:9 166:16,19 168:8 170:4 171:15,21 173:22 174:10 175:17,21 176:22 177:10 178:2,4 180:12 183:9 185:10 185:12,13 186:1 191:21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 191:22,22 192:3,12 193:21 194:14 196:12 205:3 205:10 216:7 216:21 217:12 217:19 219:14 224:21 231:12 231:12,13,16 231:20 236:4,8 236:9,16,22 237:2,6,8,17 237:22 238:3,4 238:9,12 243:10,15 253:7,7,20,20 254:4,8 255:19 255:21 256:2 257:1,6,10,18 260:8,21 261:7 261:13,22 263:18,20 264:10 270:16 270:20 271:2 271:19 272:6 273:1,8 274:4 274:21 275:11 276:7,22 277:2 277:16 278:4,6 278:13 281:18 281:19,19,20 281:21 282:8 282:15,16,21 283:14,18,19 284:12,16,17 284:22 285:1,6 286:7,22 288:5 288:10,13,13 Meeting [obverse - olive] 288:14,18 289:8 290:20 291:15 292:22 294:2 296:17 296:22 297:3 297:21 298:1,5 298:9,18 302:22 303:1,1 305:12,13,15 305:17 306:3 306:22 307:6 308:16 309:17 311:7 312:16 313:2 314:15 315:6 317:11 318:3,21 319:14 321:10 321:19 322:7 323:17,20,20 324:8,9,9,10 325:12 330:2,2 330:21 331:17 331:19,20,20 333:4 335:12 335:12 336:7 341:8 342:15 342:16 345:12 345:18 346:1 346:16,22 347:6 348:18 348:19 349:8 349:22 obverses 63:20 69:15 74:10 108:13 256:11 279:3 304:8 309:19 310:8,8 311:13 317:18 April 18, 2023 Page 60 346:7 obvious 49:15 107:7 obviously 67:14 76:13 122:14 252:6 252:14 272:1 304:7 occasion 30:9 occurred 343:22 ocean 256:6 258:2 odd 114:13 115:7 odm 244:4 301:17 offer 30:3 32:10 65:12 85:6 178:19 208:7 248:4 329:7 offering 34:10 34:16 39:6 42:17 84:1 268:2 office 2:20 11:19,21 16:14 17:17,20 19:19 21:10,13 25:22 48:22 108:2 227:13,15,17 238:21 officer 228:1 290:5 355:1,2 officers 197:13 225:4 officials 197:1 197:6,9 oftentimes 192:13 oh 11:16 23:18 46:9 57:9,10 89:4 105:6,8 132:10 168:6 174:18 176:10 177:19 181:7 181:17,19 189:16 194:10 215:15 224:19 248:12 297:14 300:8 318:22 340:15 341:3 ohio 29:7 37:7 241:5 okay 9:9 11:8 16:1,6 20:5 29:19 30:6 33:12 43:14 44:2,15 51:13 53:22 57:6 70:19 89:7 97:5 99:9,16 105:5,17 118:17 120:11 123:22 128:6,6 130:20 131:1 132:9 133:7 135:20 136:14 136:21 147:4 147:19 148:16 150:4,12,19 151:15,22 153:14 155:17 158:10 162:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 169:1,21 170:10 171:12 171:19 172:3,5 172:21 173:2,6 174:8,13,18 175:8,19 176:1 176:12,17 177:12 178:18 179:2,5 186:20 187:9 193:20 195:4,19 205:20 206:1 209:19 215:7 216:1,6 242:2 244:4,13 248:21 253:6 264:9 270:12 272:16 278:4,5 282:9 284:5 303:22 307:16 307:18 316:13 317:9 323:3,14 323:15 332:8 333:4 337:5,10 340:8,21 350:12,18 351:8,9 353:11 354:9 old 19:12 22:3 76:2,17 204:15 204:18 223:5 247:14 304:9 304:22 older 147:7 190:6 247:16 304:11 olive 254:5,10 255:14 277:19 Meeting [olive - pacific] 284:6 once 34:2 48:10 87:11 90:21 97:21 131:11,14 152:8,10 153:10 157:5 175:20 202:4 249:9 250:19 302:21 343:19 353:16 ones 80:17 82:12 83:17 98:8 118:6 148:19 165:17 189:1 222:21 279:1 284:13 286:6 293:6 309:3 316:7 ongoing 268:20 online 136:7,9 open 35:6 42:17 53:10 54:1,2,5,9,9,15 54:20 83:10 297:17 307:15 331:16 346:18 opened 59:13 250:3 opening 285:10 297:16 operations 199:7 218:10 222:18 345:2 349:15 opine 52:4 opinion 46:4 61:11 149:8 April 18, 2023 Page 61 191:18 232:18 239:4 275:4 opinions 279:1 opportunities 283:13 opportunity 13:9 31:22 32:11,18 33:11 34:13 52:12 67:13 71:15,18 82:20 86:3 90:20 128:13 159:10 163:3,8 163:15 199:22 203:9 230:10 232:14 248:10 248:11 270:3 285:11 oppose 195:3 opposed 48:2 167:14 172:18 175:12,12 176:16 182:19 195:1 234:19 238:3 243:22 266:16 342:2 350:16 352:7 opposite 158:18 284:19 oppression 63:2 optical 275:7 option 301:10 options 207:8 299:3 oral 268:15 orchard 147:21 order 5:3 6:3 15:1 23:10 29:3 34:7 51:12 87:16 174:14 347:10 347:11,12 353:13 orderly 218:5 ordinary 268:3 organization 15:18 24:10 266:18 organizations 258:16 oriented 94:14 94:19 109:15 110:9 294:3 original 168:12 193:8 246:18 248:5 originally 59:10 353:1 ought 49:12 outcome 355:16 356:12 outer 144:14 outlasts 145:2 outputs 250:1 outranked 239:22 240:3 outside 59:3 227:15 233:5 304:18 outsider 233:2 outstanding 33:3 66:8,11 outstretched 77:12 78:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 81:10 83:22 84:8,16 112:22 125:12 129:1,2 134:16 overall 88:4 108:6 277:5 overcame 237:15 overhead 315:17 overlaid 257:7 overlap 159:2 160:9 overly 300:19 328:13 overseas 197:14 201:1 204:19 222:21 226:16 308:2 oversee 48:16 48:21 overwhelmed 293:19 owe 151:6 own 27:4 186:10 owned 54:7 ozzie 310:1 p p 2:1,1 3:1,1 4:1,1 6:1 p.m. 354:16,18 pacific 19:7 257:12 258:2,6 259:9,20 291:5 298:13 Meeting [package - pennsylvania] package 22:9 198:7 246:18 248:6 packages 196:21 197:8 216:15 225:5 225:13 236:13 238:8 packaging 247:8 packet 212:12 246:5 248:6 page 5:2 paid 29:6 128:1 250:22 pair 35:21 106:2 115:18 311:8,10 345:20 paired 164:13 331:21 pairing 78:6 115:15 116:5,6 236:16 316:16 335:13 palette 50:9 65:20 palettes 66:3 pallas 220:1,1 220:5,12 222:13 228:12 palm 147:15,16 pam 2:7 10:2 33:15 99:9 121:15 149:18 panels 263:9 papers 216:9 parade 198:21 parallel 129:2 129:5 269:6 parallels 64:6 paraphrase 38:5 parcels 218:6 parents 22:9 304:12 park 251:1,21 251:22 parliamentary 161:8,9 165:15 part 14:2 18:9 33:9 49:1,11 76:12 77:15 79:15 94:21 117:10 124:22 144:16 157:9 168:12 190:14 204:9 226:17 227:12 229:7 234:4,6 274:19 286:17 296:11 297:5 298:12 302:2 308:7 326:5 338:3 340:4 partial 217:1 293:11 participate 24:19 195:12 301:22 participating 6:8 13:5 96:19 281:7 302:11 participation 73:2 April 18, 2023 Page 62 particular 58:10 72:10 76:1 87:18 92:11 112:15 116:14 128:18 140:12 214:17 215:5 229:11 230:16 277:20 304:8 349:17 particularly 32:20 66:4 71:16 85:11 92:5 96:1 106:18 117:19 163:1 235:12 236:17 239:4 280:7 parties 355:12 355:14 356:8 356:11 partner 252:1 partners 240:5 pass 31:15 302:9 passed 31:3 41:14 167:10 195:5 211:5 244:1 passenger 27:8 36:13,16 passengers 35:8,12 36:22 37:3 passes 342:3 343:4 passing 223:17 253:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 passion 58:14 passionate 80:10 104:1 316:10 past 76:22 95:18,20 304:2 352:16 patch 218:10 222:14,17,18 path 36:8,9 40:14,15 80:1 314:22 patriot 119:21 120:6 124:9,11 124:16,16 126:20 127:16 patriotism 120:9 127:12 pattern 39:5 282:10 304:2 paul 4:7 9:10 310:22 pause 14:22 pavilion 256:4 257:22 paw 38:19,19 pay 86:9 114:15,22 pays 290:5 peace 250:10 260:4 peak 42:4 105:5 pedantic 120:20 pennsylvania 15:14 26:21 Meeting [people - photographs] people 27:1,3 27:11,22 28:8 28:12 30:17 31:13 32:17 36:10 41:9,22 44:18 45:8,11 51:5 55:14 56:13 59:10 62:12 71:1 74:7,8,15 75:2 76:7 77:16 78:16 79:8,10 79:16,17 82:10 93:12,12 94:17 94:18 95:19 101:18 104:8 105:19 122:14 125:17 126:22 127:14 128:10 144:10 148:4 148:11,17 157:8 163:19 163:20 165:10 167:2 180:4 188:10,11,14 194:12 195:3 204:16 212:12 221:5 229:9,15 231:3 239:18 248:19 250:9 250:19 268:3 280:3 286:13 287:5 294:2,3 298:11 299:9 299:11 301:3,8 302:6 307:16 309:19 312:10 314:4 319:18 April 18, 2023 Page 63 325:21 330:6 334:5 347:2 349:16 352:1 352:20 percent 201:12 201:13 221:19 267:14 292:15 292:15 perched 297:9 perfect 75:10 188:22 295:8 perfectly 271:2 performed 207:18 perilous 26:21 37:2 period 70:8 88:13 106:18 113:18 124:16 230:11 238:7 periods 28:18 29:4 perished 5:18 9:1 11:4 343:15 permit 55:4 191:3 permitted 52:21 192:19 perseverance 259:12 person 12:4 13:18 14:7 35:3 65:11 119:5,6,11 124:1 187:11 189:8 211:2 230:21 233:7 233:10 263:11 310:18 317:17 338:2 352:20 personage 156:19 personal 149:16 personally 27:1 90:2 237:11 271:14 309:4 personnel 197:7,13 199:6 persons 38:13 perspective 74:4 94:9 147:12 184:11 214:15 287:14 294:20 295:2,3 315:1 320:12 perspectives 33:4 124:20,21 297:12 persuade 159:5 persuaded 100:11 125:9 180:11 312:3 pertaining 263:17 peter 3:21 7:17 23:19 46:18 67:9 106:11 140:8 143:3 161:7 163:22 169:14 173:12 174:13 183:21 185:8 186:15 189:11 236:5,7 273:18 280:15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 285:9 296:6,10 301:16 312:13 317:3,10 324:21 325:20 328:11 334:21 348:16 350:4 peter's 179:7 phase 256:1 phases 58:16 67:1 phenomenal 48:17 94:15 195:15 239:16 244:17 philadelphia 15:14,17 philpot 3:7 12:17 199:11 205:15 206:8 206:10,14,16 209:16,19,21 211:16 212:14 213:13,21 214:2,5,12 215:5 241:10 241:12,14 242:5 246:4 247:11 248:9 phoenix 73:6 phone 6:9 319:4 photo 223:11 223:14,15 224:11 photograph 146:21 photographs 334:22 Meeting [phrase - point] phrase 44:17 44:18 267:20 275:2 phrases 218:12 268:20 phrasing 266:18 physician 117:22,22 239:20 pick 77:7 91:9 91:14 181:6 302:1 picked 83:12 309:6 picks 233:5 317:17 picture 48:15 189:22 piece 31:11,14 66:4 84:22 94:19 104:1 114:17 134:4 137:16 145:5 149:4 150:6 175:17 188:8 188:14 189:9,9 190:21,22 191:1 193:21 217:20 322:7 335:17 pieces 82:8,21 110:4 145:5 190:9 197:7 198:3,6 256:19 pile 218:3 pillar 255:7 261:22 April 18, 2023 Page 64 pillars 255:1,6 259:3 260:13 262:12 pilots 202:1 pins 219:15,18 pivot 333:18 pivotal 126:7 placards 93:21 place 41:12 53:7 80:19 106:7 119:4 135:2 153:11 181:4 285:12 325:11 placed 49:22 211:1 347:12 placement 220:5 221:12 223:8 226:20 places 280:16 placing 348:1 plan 89:11 planchet 68:18 70:1 71:20 85:15 86:7,22 138:21 162:10 271:21 272:3 planchets 153:10 253:2 270:7 280:18 335:10 plane 205:20 planes 261:9 284:18 309:21 planning 205:22 plantation 26:16 planting 250:1 plants 38:17 106:1 114:18 plaque 42:3,4 46:1 151:2 plaques 296:13 296:13,20 play 138:21 played 14:1 32:20 190:5 289:14 plead 270:1 please 6:16 9:15 12:5 16:20 18:16 20:12 23:4,22 34:1 51:15 53:11 90:11 96:20 99:8 118:10,20 120:18 121:10 127:2,5 128:15 146:17 151:16 160:14 166:3 176:7 177:22 182:17 185:3 191:3,6 194:8 224:8 228:21 230:7 235:22 239:21 245:9 281:8 296:9 302:9,11 307:11 310:13 321:14,17 329:19 332:10 348:16 350:14 pleased 13:4 196:10 249:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 pleasing 145:15 pleasure 15:19 33:13 206:22 232:13 ploughshares 311:11 plow 262:8 pluribus 33:21 260:5 306:19 plus 256:15 pocket 226:5,7 point 13:19 61:11 63:7 65:2 67:7 78:5 89:10 90:6 91:18 95:15 97:20 98:18,19 115:7 116:4 117:17 122:19 124:16 125:19 130:8 131:9 132:12 138:12 143:12 146:11 150:18 152:22 156:12 158:14 159:2 163:2 174:14 178:16 179:7 180:19 192:6 213:18 220:7 231:2,7 244:2 263:11 263:16 270:6 270:11 277:7 279:2,8 298:14 302:8 318:5,17 322:10 325:19 328:18 329:3 Meeting [point - precise] 334:5,19,19,20 337:2 338:6 343:8 pointed 67:18 77:3,20 103:2 193:12 pointing 39:13 points 35:22 36:5 97:16,17 97:18,20 98:2 108:8,13 112:5 131:8,8,11,12 131:13,14,16 131:17,18,18 131:19,21 135:10 136:19 152:11,12,13 152:15,15,16 152:19,20 153:1,1,2 154:3,8,12,14 154:17,21 158:17,17 160:18,21,22 161:19 164:9 165:13 170:19 171:2 179:16 242:10,21 278:20 281:19 298:13 303:2 330:22 331:7 331:11 352:13 352:14 poking 59:21 pole 87:22 128:22 police 290:5 April 18, 2023 Page 65 policy 60:7 polished 47:10 political 311:4 pondering 150:13 pop 179:22 popular 268:12 268:15 population 301:5 populations 86:5 portal 19:6 portfolio 29:14 44:8 47:13 50:12,19 52:8 67:12 88:5 92:5 102:1 106:13 199:22 202:17 203:12 205:2,2,10 209:18 232:14 251:8 286:3 300:10 304:5 348:14 portfolios 52:10 263:14 333:22 portion 118:3 245:8 287:15 portrait 41:4 65:6 67:19 70:5,8 74:13 77:20 84:11 93:1,3 100:18 103:14,16,17 112:21 121:13 129:7 133:21 138:20 141:18 144:5 192:12 portraits 34:7 34:20 49:4 60:18 69:5,15 70:11 77:21,21 80:11 83:18 86:20,22 87:10 87:16 100:7 portray 37:22 40:20 141:22 portrayal 67:19 68:6 portrayed 192:22 portrays 36:12 38:15 pose 257:7 270:4 posed 320:13 position 16:16 19:20 174:20 193:9 positioned 245:1 297:17 positive 111:9 possibilities 185:7 possibility 323:21 possible 50:2 51:6 63:16 98:3 102:20 131:10 136:19 152:11,15 154:3,8 195:16 241:20 245:17 281:18 303:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 327:5 331:8 337:11 possibly 156:19 166:8 167:5 280:4 post 201:10 227:15,17 238:21 postal 5:12 8:17 118:16 196:7,17 197:17 213:2 216:20 217:5 217:17 219:7 227:13 235:10 235:11 246:13 posthumously 344:12 potential 69:13 potentially 115:10 powell 210:5 powelson's 93:1 power 250:19 powerful 117:19 138:19 140:20 148:3 313:16 320:1 321:9 pows 241:1 practice 294:16 pre 350:9 precarity 63:7 precedent 194:13 precise 91:7 Meeting [predecessors - prior] predecessors 25:16 predicted 197:9 predominately 200:15 preface 67:11 74:10 273:20 prefer 43:20 70:22 71:3 111:3 125:17 162:4 171:17 193:7 225:4 274:9 305:16 305:17 306:2 329:10 preference 34:14 35:1,16 36:2,18 38:14 39:10 40:9,21 41:1,17 42:13 43:3,5,18,22 44:1 45:22 46:1 61:3 63:22 68:5 69:10 71:22 74:9,11 75:4 79:3 88:1 100:16 114:4 134:6,17 156:10 182:1,4 234:9 253:19 255:11,11,21 259:16,17 260:19,20 263:1 264:11 265:11,12,17 265:18 274:10 April 18, 2023 Page 66 275:12 283:9 283:11 288:13 302:22 305:16 306:5,12 307:3 312:16,17 preferences 44:16 46:11,17 72:2,13,15 78:18 89:10 103:21 107:4 112:10 134:14 236:19 238:19 252:6,15 270:16 274:21 279:6 313:2 345:3 preferred 46:21 75:8 112:20 113:5 130:2 143:10 217:8 219:1 226:3 254:7 255:3 258:6 262:6 263:13 265:15,16 277:2,4 347:5 348:13 premature 98:17 prepare 41:12 135:2 prepared 18:4 64:20 130:12 133:13 182:15 356:3 presence 67:17 present 6:17,19 6:22 7:3,6,9,12 7:15,18,21 8:2 9:15,17,20 10:1,3,6,9,12 10:15,19,22 11:6,7,12,15 11:20 12:1 25:15 26:1 52:9 95:18 97:1,8 131:3 152:9 196:11 264:18 277:10 281:15 302:19 308:17 330:19 presentation 202:19 214:20 215:1 219:8 presented 29:3 51:13 52:5 192:16 207:10 209:17 242:12 271:10 presenting 26:4 45:15 presents 33:15 74:2 president 2:21 3:4 12:8,9 69:8 69:10,12 255:16 presidential 69:8 presidents 60:7 press 9:6 334:19 pressure 83:8 prestigious 16:18 20:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 presume 226:17 pretending 127:20 pretty 78:3 81:20 135:16 235:22 294:6 311:2 316:20 prevailed 334:12 prevailing 174:16 prevalent 246:8 previous 32:15 191:8 previously 109:13 193:15 194:20 253:1 255:20 282:10 295:13 price 163:2 253:17 254:17 261:5 313:15 pride 338:3 primarily 83:18 primary 23:19 199:9 205:1 213:20 214:17 215:12,15,21 print 68:18 288:20 prints 211:20 prior 6:11 51:17 227:1 354:5 355:5 Meeting [prism - public] prism 86:5 117:10 298:8 privilege 6:16 8:5 13:9 24:19 52:4 probably 14:13 58:12 76:17 78:5,9 79:2 100:15 107:13 110:19 112:4 118:6 137:17 140:4 153:12 162:8 163:4 165:5 168:4 171:9 186:12 200:1 228:9 276:10 278:19 278:22 279:5 280:14 285:7 285:14,18 297:4 309:5 problem 66:14 106:16 128:11 139:1 187:9 200:7 204:19 204:22 336:21 353:2 problematic 49:3 51:1 140:14 277:6 problems 273:5 301:5 318:20 procedure 352:16 proceed 133:14 160:14 181:18 224:8 282:10 April 18, 2023 Page 67 proceeding 356:4 proceedings 9:4 13:5 355:3 355:5,6,9 356:6 process 15:11 32:4,6 33:5 202:6 207:6 213:16 251:12 252:4 processing 198:2,5 proclamation 102:9 113:15 118:15 157:7 prodded 335:1 produce 261:18 produced 277:6 producer 3:6 12:16 199:10 product 235:12 264:18 productive 171:3 professional 15:10 16:8 225:10 professor 15:13 profit 31:5 profound 70:22 program 2:15 3:4 5:8,15 6:10 8:14,20 11:3 12:12,22 24:8 25:20 26:1,3 28:17 29:5 33:10 43:14 51:19 60:10 72:12 73:16 89:13 90:21 102:1 195:15 196:11 219:11 238:19 245:5 248:15 249:8 250:21 253:1 265:22 266:7 267:9 274:15 279:17 281:5 286:3 299:2 319:16 320:5 322:22 343:9 programs 14:20 251:4 project 2:14,17 3:7 11:1,9 12:18 83:7 199:12 208:12 projects 3:8 12:19 199:13 211:18 320:15 320:17 354:1 prominent 192:12 221:2 promise 120:15 promote 163:16 promptly 206:18 propeller 257:17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 properly 13:19 14:7 245:1 property 54:6 55:17 127:8 proponent 94:3 propose 327:6 proposed 164:21 prospects 311:4 protect 344:14 proud 15:20 18:13 33:9 119:7 120:12 224:10,12 228:7 251:11 252:17 proudly 247:22 prove 124:15 proved 27:17 provide 24:14 26:9 28:6 35:15 46:12 242:7 251:17 281:8 provided 27:2 41:21 54:7 195:13 230:16 provides 242:8 public 1:1 3:12 4:6 6:12,18 8:1 8:4 9:7 14:5 15:7 20:3,4,8 23:12 24:20 25:21 26:9 51:4 53:16 55:7 79:8 85:10,12 86:8 Meeting [public - quorum] 87:3 117:9 132:15 144:20 144:21 162:22 186:7 196:9,14 202:13 203:9 204:8 216:3,3 234:13 249:9 249:12 250:3 252:11 278:1,2 294:6 315:8 343:18 353:17 354:3,5 355:18 public's 77:6 publication 54:18 publications 19:3 publicize 334:18 puerto 200:18 pull 295:3,7 pulled 295:5 pulling 37:10 57:22 148:9 pulls 290:11 punctuated 143:16 purchase 85:10 purchased 127:8 188:10 purchaser 56:4 purchasing 110:2 purely 128:17 184:10 purple 319:16 327:22 344:12 347:18 348:7 April 18, 2023 Page 68 350:20 351:5 purpose 17:12 17:15 21:6,8 29:9 279:16,17 282:18 339:17 purposes 68:16 345:7 pursuit 28:15 163:6 push 61:11 248:18 pushed 238:8 pushing 101:15 125:18 332:13 put 27:5 58:17 76:14 85:19 119:3 123:12 127:6 130:18 139:18 150:2 151:4 171:5 207:13 216:3 226:7 246:8 271:8 280:15 284:18 295:19 306:4 309:6 317:13 318:5 318:15 326:13 351:5 352:8 putting 93:10 123:13 134:19 268:22 279:22 280:1 288:17 317:7 322:7 326:10 q qualified 3:15 3:20,21 4:4 7:1 7:13,16,19 13:14 15:4 16:16 19:21 50:18 226:16 355:7 qualifies 324:8 qualities 106:1 quantities 261:18 quarrel 156:11 quest 45:8 127:13 question 43:17 44:16,21 45:15 47:12 48:9,17 53:10,18 55:10 55:12 57:1,9 58:5 62:7 78:4 118:18 119:1,9 136:14 137:9 146:16 149:1 150:14 168:17 211:10 212:3 212:15 213:4,5 219:10 220:19 224:17 228:17 239:2 241:9 263:20 264:6 264:10 265:9 268:21 283:19 294:10 304:6 316:8 317:2 319:10 320:13 332:15 348:17 questions 25:3 43:13 44:6 46:19 48:4 51:7,10,19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 56:20 99:2 150:14 191:6 194:19 205:8 206:17,18 224:4 225:21 230:10 252:19 263:17 265:19 267:12 269:21 270:3 298:14 299:21 303:18 321:15 329:6 353:18 quibble 156:11 quick 77:7,9 90:6 99:3 105:19 189:18 224:17 231:9 251:12 263:19 270:5 quickly 117:6 141:16 164:7 194:7 311:17 319:9 320:11 quite 32:5,15 67:11 68:4 78:14 79:9 81:10,12 86:11 107:2 114:3 115:12 122:16 135:20 140:16 150:20 233:22 236:16 274:5 296:21 300:15 333:11 quo 79:11,16 80:13 quorum 8:6 Meeting [quos - really] quos 79:18 quotation 135:7 quote 38:5 74:3 255:16 r r 2:1 3:1 4:1 6:1 35:9,20 39:13 41:7 r1a 146:17 r3 141:9 rabbit 258:19 race 198:1 racism 63:2 rafters 247:3 raid 27:21 38:9 38:12 39:3 40:6,11 111:5 116:14 190:8 190:18 raids 107:10 railroad 3:2 12:10 26:19 27:9 28:21 29:7,12 30:2 30:17 31:21 34:21 35:5,11 35:16 36:17,19 36:21 37:1,11 37:15 40:10 41:2 42:14 43:4,6,19,22 45:2 59:14 60:3 64:4 68:10 74:15 75:3,22 76:3 76:10,16,20 April 18, 2023 Page 69 94:13 96:6 102:5 110:5 113:18 163:7 190:4 raise 16:20 20:13 353:1 raised 25:7 47:5,6 98:14 117:17 153:3 157:16 177:4 298:13 300:1 340:10 raising 137:9 297:1 324:1 ramp 263:12 range 223:6 348:8 ranging 208:13 rank 221:12,12 223:8 ranking 168:15 347:13 rankings 325:4 325:22 rapidly 79:20 261:16 rate 90:13 91:13 rather 47:12,14 61:5 67:4,19 140:15 274:18 295:20 333:11 rationing 250:2 262:17 304:19 rays 262:2 reach 36:14 93:10 163:18 163:19 reached 328:4 reaches 36:13 reaching 57:21 64:10 65:10 78:16 95:2,6 95:12 148:3 319:20 read 24:4 33:14 36:10 40:16 42:9 45:6 49:4 60:11 76:3 95:1 133:10,11 139:9 140:2,4 167:21 290:6 293:8 readable 117:6 264:20 reading 42:22 46:22 reads 36:15 37:5,15 39:15 47:10 ready 34:16 84:9 130:21 152:1 162:2 169:22 207:2 223:17 253:3 291:21 real 77:7,9 123:22 149:1 realistic 120:21 reality 310:4,5 322:2 realize 186:8 242:16 realizing 278:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 really 12:2 18:9 22:20 32:1,5,7,8 43:11 48:11 51:4,7 54:21 57:12,16,20 59:18 60:20 63:14 64:6,10 67:13 68:9 69:1,2,16 70:17 71:10,22 71:22 72:1 76:1,20 77:18 79:1 81:6 82:1 83:10 85:5,15 87:1 92:15 94:2,6,15,18 95:4 96:4,13 101:15 104:4 104:12 105:21 106:7,19 107:1 108:13 109:21 114:16,19 115:1,10,14 117:13 118:4 126:7,10,17 127:20 134:15 134:15 137:4 137:12 141:22 142:2 144:3,14 144:22 145:8 145:13 146:7 146:10 148:11 156:20 158:21 159:1,14,18,18 163:8 164:8 165:8 166:18 170:22 174:15 Meeting [really - reconsider] 181:6 188:5 190:7,14,19 195:9,12 210:13 220:15 224:12 227:13 231:7,7,8,8,14 236:8 244:16 245:2,5 252:11 271:13 273:15 273:22 274:1 276:21 277:17 277:20 278:3 279:2 282:17 282:21 283:3 284:12,22 286:4 287:2,13 289:20 290:7 290:12 292:12 293:4,12 296:18,21 298:20,21 304:18 305:12 306:8,10,16 308:12 310:18 315:6,17,19 317:13 318:3 318:19 319:10 319:13 320:1 322:17 326:9 327:3 334:10 336:1,2 340:12 345:8 351:17 351:18,18 reason 25:2 65:1 79:15 84:13 85:14 93:4 104:16 110:16 188:6 April 18, 2023 Page 70 271:5 284:17 296:11 297:5 309:10 333:10 reasonable 50:2 51:13 reasons 105:2 238:18 329:11 recall 104:3 receive 201:20 202:2 230:2 received 96:19 97:15,17,18,18 97:19,21 98:3 98:4,4,5,5 99:5 131:8,8,9,10 131:13,13,16 131:17,17,18 131:19 136:18 136:20 152:12 152:13,14,14 152:15,16,19 152:20,22 153:1,1,2 154:17 163:1 199:1 226:7 281:19,19,20 281:21 282:1,2 282:4,5,5,5,6 303:2,2,2,3,4,6 303:6,6,7,9,10 303:12,12,13 303:13,14,14 303:14,15,15 331:1,1,2,2,3,3 331:5,5,5,6,6 receives 208:19 receiving 131:12 154:19 154:19,20 197:1 202:4 recent 22:11 24:11 337:8 recently 14:16 receptive 213:15 receptivity 193:15 recess 130:15 151:18 244:2,4 244:14,17 245:7 248:16 249:6 330:12 recharge 65:3 recipient 24:9 234:8 235:1 recipient's 207:20 recipients 234:20 235:19 recognition 58:9 198:21 recognize 32:1 32:19 48:11 93:5 97:7 131:2 152:8 208:6 243:1 267:5 281:14 302:18 317:19 330:18 recognized 27:15 32:16 60:15 recognizes 26:11 318:9 recognizing 52:13 194:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 recollection 153:16 recommend 24:12 49:19 50:3,5 57:4 89:9,21 98:17 117:14 155:3 168:2,14 243:11,14 282:11 315:21 315:22 recommenda... 90:17 98:18 153:11 155:9 174:22 212:2 215:5,6 243:10 275:6 316:6 recommenda... 14:20 72:9 85:17 132:17 153:8 207:11 207:12 232:16 234:20 275:22 312:22 353:19 recommended 3:13,17,18 4:2 6:20 7:4,7,10 34:2 49:13 87:11 121:12 168:7,8 215:1 recommending 183:9 222:1 311:12 reconcile 46:3 reconciled 113:20 reconsider 193:17,18,21 Meeting [reconsidered - reminder] reconsidered 113:10 record 9:13 51:17 54:18 89:19 97:4 118:14 130:19 151:21 195:22 215:21 216:3 243:13 246:12 249:1 281:11 302:15 330:16 332:9,18 352:8 355:9 356:5 recorded 355:6 recording 130:18 151:20 152:1 196:2 281:13 302:14 302:17 330:15 355:8 356:4 records 246:13 recruit 126:9 recruited 39:8 recruiting 27:18 rectangles 318:1 red 230:20 241:2,3 redirected 217:21 redo 328:5 reduced 355:7 redundant 291:14 reemphasizes 163:11 refer 26:11 30:12 323:16 reference 123:7 224:10 337:16 references 277:9 304:22 referencing 312:22 referred 44:22 65:7 refers 64:3 294:18 refine 34:7 87:16 refined 202:9 264:13 refinement 203:13 refinements 204:3 205:4,11 223:2,8 240:12 reflect 28:20 37:19 148:1 155:10 209:6 236:13 339:14 339:14 353:21 reflected 48:19 211:3 320:8 reflecting 94:11 199:4 reflection 227:14,19 reflective 320:9 refresh 153:15 regained 344:16 regard 44:17 63:20 291:6 April 18, 2023 Page 71 315:9,11 337:20 regarding 24:21 155:9 303:18 regardless 200:10 264:17 regiments 27:18 39:9 301:20 region 197:9 registered 61:3 registry 354:5 regret 280:10 regularly 165:16 reimagining 257:1 reinforce 73:3 reinforces 306:20 reinterpretati... 338:8 reiterate 241:14 reject 211:14 rejected 309:3 related 186:8 239:18 252:7 325:10 349:17 355:11 356:7 relations 289:11 relationship 59:7 relative 225:1 355:13 356:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 relaxed 141:21 release 334:19 relevance 81:17 relevant 80:5 82:7 144:18,20 reliable 22:21 197:2 relief 184:19 292:6 298:18 relocated 198:11 remain 87:22 remained 28:5 remarkable 73:21 remarks 113:8 remember 72:11 76:11 107:5 113:8 127:7 178:2 268:9,13 307:12 320:18 332:16 remembered 252:13 remembers 263:5 remind 6:7,12 51:15 63:16 215:13 229:22 230:6 285:3 reminded 273:13 286:11 319:15 reminder 104:15 135:12 167:8 250:18 Meeting [reminder - results] 253:22 reminds 102:8 225:8 289:21 reminiscent 81:6 296:22 remiss 18:10 remotely 9:7 352:22 remove 110:13 132:7 166:9,13 removed 87:22 renaming 204:9 rendering 138:8 repairing 251:2 repeat 16:21 129:18 149:15 175:20 177:8 repeatedly 26:22 replicated 328:3 replied 206:18 reported 1:20 197:1,6 344:5 reporter 130:21,22 reporter's 152:1 represent 15:6 28:22 34:7 38:8 61:21 87:17 108:5 124:3 128:12 203:12,14 216:11 221:18 April 18, 2023 Page 72 286:21 292:5 302:2 321:21 325:2,6,7,8 326:21 representation 204:6 213:12 222:8 223:3 225:10 252:8 314:18 321:1 329:2 335:3 representatio... 301:19 representations 202:18,21 representative 3:12 4:6 254:22 255:5 301:4 315:7 321:6,7 329:12 329:15 349:14 representatives 29:11 345:1 represented 101:8 120:10 192:14 201:17 220:2 223:10 229:10,11,16 274:20 298:4 299:17 representing 6:17 7:22 8:4 32:8 37:10 38:16 101:8 121:4 216:17 218:11 223:22 253:12 254:9 255:13 256:15 257:15 258:13 258:21 259:2 260:6,10 262:2 262:9 263:3 269:13,13,16 269:18 272:19 278:2 293:3 302:5 345:21 346:6 347:5 348:8 represents 14:4 36:9 40:15 42:5 124:9 202:13 204:13 222:12 253:14 256:13 258:11 274:16 300:17 require 217:10 219:2 required 33:18 34:22 requirements 50:13 requires 73:11 249:12 research 107:9 186:11 researches 301:19 reservation 17:11,14 21:6 21:8 350:19 residents 262:16 resolute 28:5 resolved 114:14 resonance 101:17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 resonated 83:11 respect 30:4 52:13 86:9 92:6 104:18 109:19 117:16 120:15 126:14 191:14 213:22 243:2 277:15 282:8 294:18 295:7 313:17 339:2 respected 33:5 respectful 138:11 156:7 respectfully 189:13 244:19 respond 6:16 301:2 responding 149:15 response 122:5 122:20 responsibility 93:15 128:12 207:1 rest 28:3 93:19 111:1 149:4 165:18 restore 197:10 result 97:1 161:22 resulted 197:7 resulting 27:21 38:12 results 25:8 97:2,9 131:4 152:9 281:16 Meeting [results - review] 281:17 302:20 330:20 retired 200:3 retract 132:4 return 151:17 198:20 299:1 returning 26:22 reveals 346:3 reverse 26:2 33:20 35:19 37:8 39:12 41:6 45:21 46:21,21,22 57:3,7,11,11 64:11,13,15,15 68:8 70:13,16 70:16 73:20 74:22 75:10,11 78:6,10,18 84:14 86:12,14 87:20 88:6,6 88:10 96:15 98:1,3,3,4,4,5 99:13,14,16,22 101:4 103:18 103:20,20,22 104:7 105:1,5 105:6,6,10,11 106:3 107:1,6 108:7,9 109:4 110:11 111:14 111:17,18,21 112:1,6 113:4 113:5,20,21 115:9 116:18 117:20 118:6 131:7,15,16,17 April 18, 2023 Page 73 131:17,18,18 131:19,20,21 131:22 132:8 134:10 135:19 136:17,18,20 137:8,17 138:9 138:10 139:1 139:17 140:18 140:19 141:9 142:3,4 143:3 143:9,12 144:8 144:10 146:8 148:18 149:3 149:10,19,20 150:6 152:18 154:2,2,12,19 154:19 155:5,6 155:7,13,15 158:16,16,21 159:1 162:18 163:17 164:8 164:11,12,14 164:19,22 166:6,7,17 171:15,22 173:22 174:10 175:17,21 176:22 177:10 178:3,4,6 179:13 180:12 181:21,22,22 182:4,11,14 183:9 184:22 185:1,1,11,11 185:14 186:1,2 192:2,4,15 193:4,21 194:14 196:12 205:3,11 218:2 218:3,9,14 219:4 228:3,15 231:13,16 232:7,21 236:4 236:8,10,16 237:2,7,18 238:1,13 243:10,15 254:13,14,20 255:4,4,12,15 257:19 259:6 259:18 260:2,7 262:7,8,15,20 263:2,7,10,18 265:12,13,16 265:17 270:17 271:4,16,22 272:1,6 273:6 274:10,10,21 275:12,13 276:11,11,17 277:3,4,8 278:5,17,18 280:1,7,20 282:1,1,4,4,5,6 283:10,15 284:13 285:8 287:9 288:5,16 288:16 290:8 291:1,5,13,19 292:10,12 293:9 294:10 294:14 295:11 297:13,14,20 298:1,5,11,18 303:1,9,10 306:6,7,12,13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 306:15 307:1,2 307:6 308:13 308:21 309:1 310:2,9,12,12 310:12,13 311:10 312:2,2 312:6,9,17 313:3 314:3,16 314:19 315:22 316:6 318:7,12 318:12,15 320:2,10,11,11 321:10 324:13 327:17 331:4,5 331:5,6,6,7,10 331:11,22 333:5 335:13 341:12 342:15 342:16 347:7,8 347:15,17,21 348:2,5,10,12 349:8 350:1 reverses 49:5 61:5 64:12 66:9,10 74:22 81:20 82:10 98:1 105:1 137:4 140:13 146:9 154:1,10 154:18 257:20 258:8 281:22 282:7 288:10 289:3 303:8 309:16 311:8 315:21 331:4 review 5:5,6,9 5:13,16 8:12 8:14,18,20 Meeting [review - runner] 23:11 25:19 57:1 91:3,3 99:19 196:4 202:16 223:18 228:3 232:14 246:6 249:6 343:13 reviewed 24:6 25:8 205:1 reviewing 252:20 300:10 revise 162:8,8 187:8 revised 327:11 revisit 90:21 92:12 324:13 324:16 revote 159:21 161:21 170:3 revoting 170:13,17,22 rhetorical 62:7 ribbon 226:4,6 226:14,17 258:19 ribbons 226:9 227:5 297:10 312:4 rich 92:5 richardson 230:20 rico 200:18 rid 103:8,8,9 104:10 139:16 139:17,18 166:19 riding 229:6,7 April 18, 2023 Page 74 right 16:4,6,12 16:20,20 20:12 20:13 21:15 26:8 33:14 47:11 52:20 57:8 68:18 69:13,20 70:1 71:10 79:3 83:8 87:21 103:4 107:5,20 120:5,16 133:3 133:8,16 139:9 139:19 146:20 146:21 150:1 159:6,11 164:18 166:1 175:14 178:5 187:16 206:4 210:19 213:21 218:6 227:6 233:5 252:18 253:6 266:14 270:12 279:18 279:19,20 280:4,8,13 289:22 312:2 319:6 323:1 325:11 327:15 335:16,19 336:8 338:14 339:1 349:5 righteous 260:15,17 305:18,22 334:11 rights 28:11 60:7 rim 144:14 291:10 rise 297:8 rising 35:7 81:11 risk 27:5 risks 68:10 river 27:21 35:14 38:9,12 39:3 40:5,11 107:10 190:8 riveted 263:9 riveter 237:13 310:20 317:20 road 36:8 40:14 roads 129:10 robin 2:14 11:1 13:10,12,15,18 14:18 robust 243:1 roger 2:6 9:21 33:2 43:16,17 44:16 45:3,15 51:13 87:9 132:19 189:3 role 24:21 32:19 38:16 104:16 127:3 190:4 289:14 roles 27:14 roll 5:3 167:18 172:21 182:21 182:22 romanticized 84:6 roof 42:5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 room 1:12 293:2,18 307:16 310:6,6 332:11 root 38:18 rope 254:21 256:18 258:9 258:20 259:2 260:13 262:2 262:12 276:16 ropes 254:22 255:5,5 257:14 258:9 259:3 262:2 274:13 roses 253:9 rosie 237:13 310:20 317:20 rosie's 229:10 ross 26:16 rotated 259:19 rotondi 3:10 13:1 251:6,10 264:1,7 266:5 267:7 269:10 299:5 300:7 301:12 323:2 329:9 337:13 338:2 339:7 340:2 roughly 296:13 route 198:3 row 39:1 40:6 216:22 306:16 rule 201:5 run 14:19 165:19 runner 185:10 Meeting [running - scholars] running 351:18 runway 346:14 russell 10:4 rustic 37:12 s s 2:1 3:1 4:1 5:1 6:1 34:9,15 34:19,19 35:1 35:2,9,20 sack 216:15 sacks 218:4 sacrifice 126:12 208:20 249:16 250:8 255:2,10 259:5 259:12,15,22 261:2,5,12 269:14 272:11 272:11,15 313:14 315:13 318:9 323:7 325:2,7 326:10 326:20 327:8,9 334:9 345:8 sacrificed 326:15 sacrifices 254:11 313:13 sacrificing 339:16 sad 322:1,4 324:3 safe 138:15 safety 345:21 salisbury 59:1 60:12 April 18, 2023 Page 75 salmon 13:11 salute 257:7 saluted 321:13 sam 14:1,2,6,18 sanite 53:2 sarah 45:3,10 sassafras 38:18 sat 93:1 satchel 87:21 satisfied 120:10 satisfy 341:9 saunders 4:2 7:5,6 75:18,19 75:20 91:6,6 107:18 115:20 115:21,21 135:14 148:17 149:17,20,22 150:2,5,8,11 165:4,20 169:6 173:5 183:14 187:3,6,9 236:21 245:10 245:14 265:10 265:14 270:20 283:18 284:1,5 298:16 307:13 307:13,18,19 322:6 332:6 336:5 337:1,22 352:10 save 280:17 324:18 saved 74:7 326:14 339:3 saving 74:15 75:2 124:12 saw 54:13 55:22 59:3 64:6 95:10 288:21 306:15 saying 23:22 50:15,17 61:14 67:11 72:11 83:9 108:15 122:11 126:15 167:12,15 172:16,19 180:14 182:8 184:16 189:3 192:22 194:21 211:17 231:15 233:8,15 273:20 313:8 319:16 320:20 323:22 324:4 333:6 340:13 341:22 342:3 350:14 354:10 354:12 says 104:21 116:13,16 223:21 240:18 275:4 287:7 320:18 322:14 336:8 338:7 scale 49:3,5 50:6 90:13 142:1,4 277:4 293:7 336:1 scales 50:20 scarf 94:6 scarinci 3:18 7:11,12 45:14 46:9 68:16 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 98:6,7,10 103:1 123:11 132:3,6,10 138:18 153:20 159:5 160:10 160:12 166:4 169:10 173:9 174:14,18 176:5,8 177:14 177:17,19 178:9,13 181:13 182:6 183:5,18 185:21 194:2 195:2 211:11 212:11 214:19 215:7,9 220:19 220:22 221:5,8 221:21 222:4 224:2 234:2 271:19 279:12 284:22 309:14 322:20 323:3,9 323:11,14 324:7 330:1 332:4 338:12 338:22 339:3 342:7 343:5 349:7,10,19 351:12 353:5,9 scene 286:10 308:12 scenes 296:15 296:15 scheduling 345:6 scholars 123:6 Meeting [school - see] school 18:21 76:7,11 201:9 201:12,15 223:13 239:14 267:19 schools 240:20 score 92:10 96:15 97:1,10 97:13,16 121:8 141:12 151:16 152:11 154:12 161:17 281:4 302:9,12 303:5 329:8,19,20 330:8 331:1,1 352:11 scored 97:13 scorer 98:2 scorers 170:5 342:13 scores 90:14 153:20 scoresheet 96:18 scoresheets 96:22 151:17 281:7 302:9 330:12 scoring 90:9 91:16 97:2,9 98:19 131:4,7 152:9 153:15 240:9 281:9,16 281:20 302:20 330:13,20 scout 27:15 38:21 39:3,19 40:2,5,16 April 18, 2023 Page 76 101:16 106:6 110:14,16 111:4,8 127:8 188:20 scouting 39:16 scrap 262:18 304:16 326:14 screen 99:8 scroll 256:18 sculpting 15:9 16:9 295:6 sculptor 16:9 sculptural 256:3,19 257:21 283:13 sculpture 4:5 7:20 13:15 15:4,12,17 16:17 18:7 19:22 210:22 211:19 260:3 335:21 sculptures 15:17 sea 256:8 257:12 258:4 seal 138:13,14 search 179:22 searching 34:11 seat 96:17 second 23:18 23:20 24:17 45:9 47:11,19 47:20 116:20 122:15 142:13 153:22 155:21 170:6,8,10 172:10,12 174:3,12,13 175:18 176:2 177:7,13 185:15,17 186:22 187:2,3 189:16 194:1,2 194:4 196:4 241:13 243:17 243:18,19 253:18 255:10 259:16 260:19 263:1 265:16 265:17 272:12 274:9,10 289:14 297:2 307:2 312:8 322:13 332:1,4 332:7,10 339:21 341:16 342:17,19,21 346:13 350:2,4 352:3,4 354:8 secondary 42:13 167:5 seconded 336:7 341:15 seconds 155:22 172:14 secretary 8:11 13:13 14:3,21 23:12 155:4 167:11 168:14 242:7,22 243:15 249:12 secretary's 69:10 265:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 section 106:13 106:15 295:1 312:8 sectioning 333:17 sections 88:4 securing 250:15 see 22:20 48:15 56:13 61:1,13 65:12,21 68:19 77:8 78:3 84:18 88:4 90:14 91:8,9 93:20 96:9 99:4,7 100:3 102:3 111:17 128:22,22 129:2,3 138:4 143:15 145:12 147:15,16 149:13 159:13 160:1 171:11 178:4 185:6,14 186:15,18 189:6 202:14 205:7 212:8 213:2 214:15 216:3 227:13 232:7 247:1 267:3 271:15 277:18,19 278:2 280:10 280:19,21 283:1 285:17 286:21 287:7 288:8 290:4,10 296:18 306:2 Meeting [see - sesquicentennial] 308:14,22 313:20 315:8 322:12 330:5 335:22 336:2 340:1 353:2,9 seeing 24:3 76:12 138:4 148:21 159:14 269:22 286:16 297:13 303:19 seem 45:17 219:18 242:8 275:7 seemed 322:9 seemingly 182:1 seems 58:8 60:22 62:17 81:10 148:7 176:16 193:13 213:8 226:20 264:12 291:18 295:16 296:22 354:14 seen 37:4 41:3 213:9 315:14 346:18 350:20 segregated 197:22 200:13 segueing 305:11 seize 34:13 seized 63:8 select 16:18 20:11 171:20 182:14,14 selected 19:15 45:18 98:8 April 18, 2023 Page 77 197:14 217:9 219:2 324:14 selection 132:8 160:3 265:5 selections 72:3 self 41:15 42:10 43:1 143:16 selflessness 261:11 seller 240:13 senate 3:17,18 7:7,10 senator 266:8 send 243:12 302:11 senior 2:5,6,13 2:19 4:7 9:10 9:18,21 10:20 11:18 55:19 sense 45:16 48:15 53:4 60:20 63:3,6 91:4 96:8 111:2 119:16 122:10 128:17 129:12 142:17 160:22 171:5 171:10 233:3 233:21 242:9 244:11 245:19 246:3 252:21 274:3 290:15 318:16 sent 25:3 218:15 222:10 353:18 sentiment 293:5 sentimental 319:12,21 separate 45:17 162:10 170:13 258:10 270:6 separately 47:14 253:3 separating 229:3 separation 126:16 september 204:20 354:3 series 69:8,13 70:12 71:9,10 83:13 103:5 192:11 234:11 234:14 283:21 285:4 296:12 serious 34:11 56:5 seriously 30:10 59:17 317:10 servant 95:4 serve 239:20 served 13:12 13:16 14:2 15:16 19:6 27:14 120:13 126:2,3 201:6 208:21,22 222:21 239:12 249:19 257:3,8 258:12 268:2 269:17 304:11 339:11 344:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 server 292:15 serves 15:15 205:5 service 13:21 14:9 118:16 202:1 217:17 235:10 239:3 249:16 251:2 251:21,22 253:13,14 255:2 258:13 259:5 269:17 271:8 273:14 282:19 292:22 302:6 323:7 325:7 327:12 327:15 345:9 347:9,22 351:13 servicemember 345:19 346:8 servicememb... 5:18 9:1 11:4 196:21,22 197:4 343:15 344:5,13 345:13 346:2,6 346:16 347:1 347:16,18 348:3,6,11 349:18 services 208:20 291:15 serving 14:13 24:9 247:16 sesquicenten... 235:13 Meeting [set - silver] set 63:15 102:1 133:22 166:11 179:20 180:9 182:13 195:18 212:21 292:21 293:1 298:22 354:3 setting 35:15 settings 320:15 settle 71:11 settled 241:4 seven 37:4,5 41:13 42:4,15 42:21 150:22 280:11,12 seventeen 198:7 252:10 several 52:19 210:10 329:11 354:5 seward 59:6,7 shackle 37:12 shaking 135:21 186:16 shape 140:18 253:8 share 24:5,17 32:11 48:7 64:14 96:10 118:13 146:5 180:4,5 190:13 226:4 241:6 245:15 350:19 shared 75:4 81:1 95:11 334:21 352:20 sharing 30:7 30:15 216:4 April 18, 2023 Page 78 she'll 11:7,12 sheet 330:20 sheets 97:9 131:4 152:9 302:20 shelter 42:6 shield 260:10 306:3 shift 198:4 shining 36:14 ship 198:19 263:8 ships 112:17 247:4 shirt 247:22 shoes 88:11 shore 58:22 59:12 short 286:19 shortage 197:7 shortly 152:6 shot 308:1 shoulder 87:22 119:6 222:20 show 12:5 80:15 82:20 109:8 121:15 121:17 135:22 145:22 147:13 148:10,15 149:19 168:20 185:21 192:1 220:1,4,15 228:11,11 246:18 259:20 284:14 294:14 294:16 326:1,2 326:3 showcase 293:10 showcased 293:19 showcasing 252:7 showed 248:2 305:9 showing 94:12 108:22 176:9 228:6 260:3 329:10 shown 94:4 314:11 shows 35:10 36:3,7,22 38:3 39:13,16 40:7 40:13 74:11 78:16 80:20 81:9 83:21 134:1 148:3 223:21 228:4 238:5 shrinking 50:9 shut 65:3 292:17 sickly 120:7 side 70:13 82:16 117:3 147:16,16 200:20,22 218:6 246:10 284:3,7 324:6 sidebar 353:3 sides 99:4 156:12 158:18 188:13 189:7 192:22 219:19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 228:4 284:19 324:5 sidewheel 107:13 signature 355:16 356:14 signed 9:7 22:5 significance 100:19 significant 24:5 32:17,19 33:10 40:12 108:21 190:3,14,17 326:4 signify 23:22 42:5,6 167:12 167:14 172:16 172:19 194:21 341:22 342:2 350:14 354:10 signifying 254:2 silhouette 36:8 40:8,14 47:1 57:13,16,17 346:2 347:1 silhouetted 257:6 346:11 348:18 silhouettes 35:20 39:20 61:15 70:20 silver 28:20 34:8 35:17,19 46:21 49:22 50:9,21,22 51:22 57:3 61:18 63:20 Meeting [silver - snapshots] 65:5,20 66:2,5 66:12 69:22 70:3,16 71:5 75:12,16 88:6 89:10,13 90:4 91:9 96:16 97:15 100:9,9 105:3 112:20 113:17 116:1,6 121:13,15 125:10 153:16 153:17,21 154:2 155:4 161:18 162:3 166:12 170:3 171:21 174:1,2 174:5 210:11 249:14 255:19 255:21 256:2 256:11 257:1,6 257:10,18,19 257:20 258:8 259:6,18 260:2 260:7 269:5,15 269:16 272:12 272:13,14 282:11,15 309:7 310:19 312:7 323:17 324:10 325:7 327:10 330:2 331:17 333:4 335:12 336:12 341:7 342:11 342:14,16,16 similar 66:16 69:7 78:7 91:14 112:19 April 18, 2023 Page 79 125:11,17 178:7 274:6 similarity 180:14 simple 134:13 135:2 280:20 324:17 simpler 68:6 simplicity 235:17 simplified 277:9 simply 57:2 273:7,8 328:14 single 165:22 229:18 253:9 344:7,8 sir 29:17 88:22 130:20 131:1 136:13 168:19 209:14 212:3,3 213:13 214:5 214:10,12 220:21 226:1 230:7 279:11 300:1 303:21 338:10 351:1 sit 80:8 site 277:1 sites 59:15 sits 211:11 sitting 83:6 138:12 197:8 246:19 247:2 332:13 situation 233:16 344:16 six 3:6,8 8:18 11:11 12:15,16 12:16,18 135:18 146:3 161:14 196:8 196:17 197:10 197:16,18 198:2,6,9,11 198:14,17,19 199:3,10,11,12 199:22 200:5 201:6,7,13,19 202:5 203:3,15 203:19,21 204:7,11 208:13 214:8 216:10,13,19 217:1,4,16,20 217:22 218:15 219:5,6 221:18 222:15 225:16 226:12,15 227:1 246:21 246:21 252:10 258:10,16,20 258:21 sixth 258:13 size 65:20 68:18,20 70:1 70:3 71:20 75:16 134:3 138:20 142:5 144:11 271:20 272:3 277:5 sizeable 101:1 sized 71:6 skills 355:10 356:6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 skin 200:18 skinned 200:20 200:21 skip 243:11 skirt 228:9 248:2 sky 34:18 35:22 36:4 61:15 297:17 skyline 57:16 294:21 slash 157:19 slave 55:17 slavery 26:17 27:2 63:2 126:22 slaves 113:15 126:8,11 slightly 37:18 47:5,6 63:4 153:19 271:10 small 46:7 48:8 48:18,21 55:14 61:21 62:13,14 62:15 71:19 87:20 103:15 103:15,16 127:15 134:4 134:16 138:3 140:5 141:7 150:10 238:6 273:9 280:20 305:8 smaller 48:11 258:10 293:7 snaps 37:13 snapshots 123:4 Meeting [social - specify] social 41:16 42:11 43:2 society 302:2 softer 61:1 soldier 257:7 290:4 soldiers 27:19 39:10 120:8 127:14 200:16 210:4,7,12 218:16 249:16 261:9 269:14 305:5 323:7 solely 334:1 solemnly 16:21 17:2 20:13,16 solider 210:9 217:21 solidly 304:12 solution 341:5 solve 204:22 solved 200:6 somber 328:9 somebody 67:13 76:4 79:12 95:3,7 311:3,16 331:16 somebody's 299:12 someday 319:17 someplace 212:9 somewhat 68:1 90:3 272:3 278:15 April 18, 2023 Page 80 son 261:7 soon 316:20 sorry 9:8,9 18:2 25:22 43:14 60:15 82:14 105:4,6 105:9 107:17 111:18 118:10 132:11,21 133:4 149:15 151:16 155:16 164:19 177:20 178:3,8 181:17 189:16 190:16 209:16 211:12 224:18 241:11 258:22 296:8 297:14 305:16 308:11 310:7 311:15 319:5 341:1 342:13 353:4 sort 62:18 84:21 93:9 141:5 142:12 151:2 156:13 156:14 216:11 220:11 223:11 227:8,17,18,21 266:2,4,15,21 268:5 286:13 290:10 301:7 313:21 315:1 322:1 337:17 sorting 218:17 219:5 246:13 247:8 sought 54:2 sound 120:20 120:20 sounds 22:12 47:17 139:2 171:8 173:18 243:16 352:2 source 22:20 south 27:22 38:13 39:14 127:15 space 62:11 70:18 157:16 188:4 spacing 264:14 speak 13:3 25:14 58:11 64:13 95:5 150:19 162:17 164:3,7 166:2 170:12 179:6 188:16 205:22 232:19 301:17 306:10 320:10 321:18 350:8 speaker 3:13 6:20 99:1 119:8 132:20 149:18,21 154:4 164:16 170:8 174:1 177:1 247:9 311:16 319:3 332:20 speakers 24:1 48:1 167:13,16 172:17,20 175:11 176:15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 182:18,20 194:22 243:21 342:1 343:2 350:15 352:6 354:11 speaking 51:17 121:7 150:20 165:2 184:21 199:17 288:6 300:4 340:13 351:21 speaks 104:20 114:17,20 238:4 282:19 spearheaded 210:3 special 206:12 335:16 345:2 349:15 specialist 2:5,6 2:19 9:19 11:18 specialists 264:18 specially 16:16 specific 114:22 233:9 267:4 316:10 specifically 3:15,20,21 4:4 7:1,13,16,19 13:14 15:4 19:21 46:13 111:13 205:3 306:10 323:5 333:16 349:17 specify 111:11 Meeting [spectrum - steamers] spectrum 296:19 speeches 28:10 spelling 347:16 spells 114:3 282:18 283:5 spent 28:3 191:4 273:20 273:22 296:11 297:5 spirit 221:10 225:16 250:8 spite 322:21 splitting 292:12 spoke 80:18 130:5 277:17 277:20 315:8 323:16 spoken 19:3 269:12 sponsors 215:19 sport 24:15 sports 14:15 233:1 spot 123:13 spouse 192:11 192:13 spreads 145:14 spy 27:15 38:21 39:3,19 40:3,5,17 101:16 106:6 110:15,17 111:4,8 122:12 127:7,19 188:20 April 18, 2023 Page 81 spyglass 38:21 40:2 spying 39:17 square 129:5,6 squeaked 161:20 st 212:18 stack 246:19 stacked 246:21 246:22 stacks 218:4 staff 9:14 31:20 146:14 206:11 208:8 242:4 248:14 295:6 298:19 343:10 353:15 stage 63:15 192:17 stages 150:18 190:6 stairs 288:21 stakeholders 121:4 stamp 102:8 118:15 184:11 210:7 217:13 231:13 235:16 235:16 238:17 stand 172:22 262:5 351:8 standards 192:7 standing 41:19 63:2 70:20 216:14 294:21 297:14 323:17 346:2 347:1 standpoint 68:1 190:11 320:2 stands 137:10 250:16 stanley 239:10 240:14,17 star 36:1,5 70:19 84:20 192:1 253:9,14 263:5 310:19 318:13 321:10 324:5 325:10 326:10 345:1,2 349:14,15 stars 34:17 35:14 39:5 47:6 70:17 71:1,2 84:4,7 216:11 225:3 253:8,11,12 254:5,8,9 255:12,13 257:8 258:20 260:5 263:2,3 275:8 277:19 277:22 278:3 309:4 346:6,13 347:4 start 13:7 36:13 80:19 83:9 133:14 136:15 185:7 219:11 286:5 started 22:5 180:22 202:6 208:12 209:4 267:9,12 317:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 330:17 starting 22:4 34:8 37:21 starts 293:7 state 59:12,20 94:4 295:1 stated 27:7 statement 313:16 states 14:5 17:1 17:4 20:15,18 25:1 31:8 32:2 33:21 84:20 93:18,22 117:15 119:3 198:20 199:6 201:11,17 239:14 249:20 251:5 260:11 262:10 300:13 304:10 308:8 340:3 343:17 344:5,9,11,22 static 54:12 74:13 stationed 197:21 199:6 statue 60:13 81:6 status 79:11,16 79:18 80:13 202:3 stay 63:17 ste 209:13 212:16,16 steamers 107:13 Meeting [step - suffrage] step 31:10 338:13,15,16 stepped 127:2 steps 338:13 ster 212:18 stick 125:8 159:16 sticking 72:15 stiff 141:18 stimulating 92:6 sto 242:1 stone 76:12,13 stood 61:9 315:20 stop 130:18 330:15 stopped 80:7 151:19 stopping 302:13 store 59:16 225:8 246:21 stories 268:1 story 30:15,16 31:14 32:11 66:7 67:4,14 84:15,17,22 85:15,21 86:10 86:16,18,21 87:1 105:22 106:3 113:22 114:11 117:13 124:17 127:17 129:8,22 161:2 161:4 189:21 192:3,14 203:2 203:3,10 205:3 April 18, 2023 Page 82 205:14 214:9 214:10 230:17 230:22 233:13 239:17 240:15 241:21 332:14 storybook 84:5 straight 145:8 straightforwa... 293:17 strand 258:11 258:13 strands 258:10 strangely 306:13 street 1:11 93:2 strength 37:11 130:5,6 147:12 174:22 250:18 260:15,17 305:18,22 strengths 113:2 stressed 231:21 strike 312:10 315:17 stripes 257:7 strive 122:21 124:7 striving 266:13 266:19 strong 37:9 74:11 75:12 78:17 102:3 112:21 115:17 147:12 167:9 221:21 279:1 283:9,11 stronger 156:20 strongest 74:20 135:18 143:9 283:5 stronghold 28:4 strongly 49:4 148:19 159:20 struck 64:6 75:21 76:20 299:18 315:6 structurally 128:19 structure 129:9 129:11 297:7 297:15 structured 170:18 structures 318:18 struggle 95:17 struggled 101:5 286:4 struggling 67:2 95:16 310:17 stubbornness 94:11 stuck 166:5 student 18:20 109:22 151:5 180:2 students 73:9 123:5 129:19 232:5 267:19 studio 93:2 studs 268:15 stuff 50:14 103:8,9,9 104:10,19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 132:7,8,12 166:9,13,15,19 311:21 stumble 217:6 style 143:14 stylistic 164:12 264:22 subject 163:17 205:8 submit 153:20 submitted 14:20 subscription 22:6,10 substituted 336:9 subtheme 269:4,4,5 subtle 223:21 suburbanizati... 310:2 success 36:17 198:10 successfully 184:12 succession 69:4 sudden 187:13 suffered 198:15 suffering 237:11 sufficient 341:13 sufficiently 187:22 321:6 suffrage 27:7 28:11 120:2,3 188:4 Meeting [suggest - symbol] suggest 51:11 85:16 99:20 117:18 130:13 153:9 167:4 171:17 185:4 195:20 208:3 213:8 214:13 242:3 248:15 248:19 263:16 302:8 335:8 338:12 suggested 91:1 161:12 246:9 324:17 suggesting 161:14 211:12 suggestion 161:9,9,15 162:7 245:9 suggestions 25:3 88:19 92:17 202:8 213:11 241:16 242:2 301:14 suicide 344:2 suit 228:8 suite 306:9 sullivan 2:5 9:18,20 25:21 196:11,13 199:19 205:21 206:2,13,14,15 215:2,8,10,14 215:17 216:1,6 219:20 244:6,9 244:19 245:15 245:20 248:10 248:12 249:10 April 18, 2023 Page 83 249:11 252:18 253:5 265:13 265:15 269:12 272:13,16,20 283:22 284:2 323:4,10,13 340:15 343:21 349:9,11 351:1 351:4,6 356:2 356:15 sullivan's 212:7 summer 22:8 summertime 200:21 sums 137:13 sun 35:7 36:14 57:22 super 144:9 171:3 246:20 supervises 225:12 supervisor 25:22 supplies 261:19 support 16:22 17:3 18:11 20:14,17 28:10 37:11 68:12 98:8 108:6 127:1 140:10 162:14,21 164:22 171:10 182:10 186:12 195:15 205:12 234:19 235:3,4 235:18 236:7 236:19 237:7 237:22 238:12 251:1 258:13 270:18 297:11 309:20 310:8 313:1 340:5 supported 160:6,8 249:21 supporting 192:3 236:3 237:17 256:12 293:4 320:3 339:17 supports 322:22 supposed 108:5 147:8 205:9 surcharge 279:20 surcharges 29:5 250:21 sure 13:19 31:18 48:14 51:5 55:17 77:11 85:19 86:4 93:16 105:13 107:14 108:2 117:1 121:1,6 134:13 135:20 170:20 171:2 199:18 206:7 224:3,19 225:20 242:13 242:22 244:6 248:7 252:12 265:15 294:1 313:19 322:10 332:18 333:20 339:19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 surface 103:11 113:7 surgery 324:19 surprise 194:4 surprised 267:17 surprisingly 301:4 surround 151:1 surrounded 254:21 259:2 262:1 348:3,12 surrounding 145:21 217:14 surveys 267:12 sustain 42:7 swath 188:11 sway 121:8 swear 16:21 17:2 20:13,16 swearing 5:4 8:8 15:2,8 18:19 swimming 286:13 switzerland 239:15 sword 260:9 283:20,22 284:1,3,4,7 327:19 328:21 329:1 swords 311:11 sworn 355:5 symbol 123:22 124:1 250:17 252:11 253:21 Meeting [symbolic - tend] symbolic 35:4 35:7 38:21 40:2 75:1 78:17 130:6 224:12 226:14 228:12 250:6 261:15 274:19 symbolically 82:4 121:4 229:18 symbolism 66:8 69:19 113:6 117:14 295:18,22 319:20 symbolize 226:5 symbolizing 41:8 synergizes 37:7 syracuse 73:6 system 170:18 198:2 t t 5:1,1 table 158:19 165:3,22 166:2 167:6,12 172:9 175:9 176:18 178:12 181:11 181:12 182:17 185:5 187:8 189:16 278:16 341:4,20 tableau 256:12 tabletop 157:14 April 18, 2023 Page 84 tags 348:7 take 13:8 17:10 17:13 21:1,3 30:10 49:13 50:8,22 52:12 59:15 70:14 77:7 91:18 97:2 99:21 113:7 122:15 151:17 160:21 170:3 175:6 189:12 195:8 195:20 197:10 209:3,10,12 212:9 249:10 281:9 302:12 305:17 306:3 312:7 330:12 338:13 taken 66:7 94:5 148:12 242:21 279:2 334:5 355:3,12 356:9 tale 341:14 taliban 344:16 talk 61:6 79:7 119:12 127:21 136:22 190:2 266:12 299:2 332:2 338:15 talked 71:17 105:19 148:6 203:16 210:18 211:2,19 212:13 318:8 talking 6:11 56:5 90:8 113:14,18 116:5 129:11 161:18 177:15 177:19 180:22 185:22 189:20 192:20 240:17 240:19 311:8 321:2 333:4 335:10 talks 142:11 190:10 tally 97:3 302:12 330:13 tallying 281:10 tan 201:2 task 70:15 tate 2:19 11:18 11:20 taught 110:5 teach 58:22 73:14 129:22 266:20 teachers 73:10 129:20 161:4 teaching 16:9 60:10 150:21 team 33:2,8 205:12 212:7,7 229:15 252:4 teams 6:10 teamwork 26:7 technical 43:13 48:4 51:10 102:12 184:10 219:10 263:17 263:19 264:10 265:9 348:16 technicality 211:4,7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 technically 191:10 282:2 294:15 tell 31:14 67:5 85:15,20 86:10 86:18 87:1 112:14 113:22 114:11,11 117:13 126:12 131:5 161:2 195:3 203:2,10 205:14 209:12 213:3 214:10 214:21 215:2 232:5 239:17 239:18 241:21 317:12 319:14 341:14 telling 86:16,21 118:3 189:20 192:14 268:1 tells 66:7,11 105:22 130:3 142:20 191:21 192:3 205:3 214:9 332:14 templates 50:14 temporarily 89:20 97:12 99:18 ten 22:15 31:3 97:2,13 120:2 171:1 203:12 222:9 245:19 tenant 320:19 tend 69:17 79:9 Meeting [tentative - thank] April 18, 2023 Page 85 tentative 24:7 text 50:14 tents 39:1 40:7 62:11 113:22 109:8 166:6,16 134:18 136:3,4 188:20 145:11 150:9 tenure 13:15 156:14 157:3 terkel 268:15 180:10 229:3,7 term 266:1 293:19 306:14 terms 33:3 306:18 307:3 61:16,20,21 thank 15:20 77:2 78:15 16:3,5 18:5,10 81:20 82:9 18:15 19:9 84:14 94:10 20:9 21:19,22 96:5 102:13 23:2,9 25:2 109:13 116:8 26:6,7,8 31:22 116:18 119:16 33:1,10,12 119:17 123:8 43:11 44:2 124:4 125:11 45:12 49:15 133:22 135:18 51:8 52:2,3 141:11 142:3 55:3 56:7,18 202:3 222:8 56:19,22 58:2 224:20 231:12 58:4,4,6 63:12 240:15 241:2 63:13 64:16,17 272:18 277:6 64:19 66:22 285:16 291:12 67:7,8,10,15 292:21 293:9 68:13,14 72:17 308:21 314:16 72:18,20 73:19 334:11 347:10 75:16,17,19,20 terribly 148:8 79:4,6 83:2,5,5 terrific 60:21 85:2 88:15,16 351:18 89:8 96:12 terrorist 344:3 98:16 99:8,11 terry 2:14 11:1 99:16 100:2 test 157:14 102:16,18 testament 103:1 104:12 36:16 105:12,18 testifying 355:5 106:9,10,12 tethered 108:9,10,12 333:16 109:9,10 112:7 112:9 114:5,6 115:19 117:8 120:16 122:3 123:8,10 125:13 129:16 129:17 130:8,9 133:16 135:10 135:11 136:6 136:22 137:18 137:19 138:16 140:7,9,22 141:1,3,12,13 142:16 143:20 143:22 146:4 146:15 151:10 153:6 154:22 155:2 156:5 158:12 160:11 161:6 162:6 168:19 172:6,7 180:7 181:19 189:15 194:18 195:13,16 196:3,13 199:19,20 202:7 205:13 206:4,6 211:8 211:9 213:6 215:9,16 216:4 219:9 220:13 220:17 224:2 224:14,15,16 225:19 228:16 229:21 230:13 230:14,22 232:9,10,12 233:22 235:20 236:1,2,4,5,6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 237:4,8,9,10 237:18,21 238:10,16 240:10 241:6 243:2,7,8 244:16 245:14 246:4 248:8,9 249:5,11 251:10 252:17 252:18 263:15 264:5,9 265:6 265:7 266:22 268:8 270:15 270:18,19 271:18 272:7,9 272:10 273:16 273:17,19 274:22 275:14 275:16 276:1,3 276:18,21 277:12,14 279:3,4 282:14 283:15,16 284:20 285:19 285:21 288:1,2 289:4,5,7 290:15,17,18 292:18 293:21 296:4 298:6,7 299:20 300:3,8 300:21,22 301:12 304:4 307:9,10 309:12 310:14 310:16 312:10 312:12,14,19 313:4,6 314:5 314:6,9 315:2 Meeting [thank - think] 315:3,4 316:17 316:18 317:1 323:3,15 324:22 326:22 327:1 328:10 328:12 329:18 331:12 333:2 333:12,13 334:2 336:3 341:3 343:9,10 343:21 348:15 349:5 351:8 352:8 353:14 353:16 thankful 25:15 thanks 18:14 31:18 129:17 195:9 232:14 307:8 334:21 theater 199:7 200:10 218:10 222:18 225:18 298:10 theaters 259:20 theirs 331:16 theme 75:22 78:7 112:15 269:2 272:18 283:3 294:9 304:8 308:9 310:3 314:4 317:20 327:8 327:12,13 328:6 336:11 themes 78:13 327:7,19 328:13 333:17 333:19 334:17 April 18, 2023 Page 86 thick 258:8 thing 9:9 22:4 33:17 55:5 66:21 76:4 84:10 91:7 101:9 110:12 126:6 134:21 137:2,7 165:13 170:13 188:13 210:13 234:4,6 244:15 280:21 290:3 295:15 297:12 301:16 308:21 309:4 312:3 321:9 322:13 323:16 325:19 328:18 335:14,15 things 55:22 79:7,20 82:16 83:15 87:6 88:9 94:9,15 96:2 114:12 122:13 124:3 126:21 128:4 135:22 146:9 147:22 161:17 182:9 206:19 233:17 234:19 242:19 247:2 248:3 273:10 289:8 290:9 299:3 319:11 319:12 322:20 328:16 339:8 think 14:11 18:12,14 22:19 31:7 32:3,10 32:15,18,21 46:10,14,15 48:22 49:4 53:6 55:9,11 58:17 60:19,20 61:8,12,13,14 61:15,15 62:1 63:9 65:7,9,11 65:14,18 66:4 66:7,11,19 67:5 68:11 69:1,14,18,19 69:22 70:2,21 71:9,21,21,22 72:2,4,4,8,9,12 72:22 74:5 75:10,15 76:11 76:16,21 77:8 77:16,19 78:5 79:12,15,17 80:3,12,12 81:9,15,15 82:1,5,20 83:1 83:14,21 84:5 84:14 86:4,20 88:3,19 90:22 91:3,7,13 92:4 92:7,8,15,19 93:9 94:19,20 94:21 96:8 100:6,21 101:1 101:6,7,16,21 102:2,11,12 103:3,22 104:2 104:4,19,19 105:4 106:1,2 107:2,5,6,18 108:8,14,14,21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 109:6,20 110:7 110:18 111:3,6 111:11,18 112:11,20 113:1,12,13,19 114:1,10,16,17 114:20 115:13 115:17 116:5,9 116:11 117:2,7 119:13,18 122:7,13,14,16 124:2,8,14 125:5,7,15 126:18,20 127:1,19 128:8 129:21,21 130:2,6,7,11 132:10,11 133:20 134:3,3 134:13,16 135:17 136:2 137:1,12 138:18 139:10 139:11,20 140:11,19 141:4,7,9,10 141:20 142:1,4 142:7,18,21 143:1,8,20 144:4,6,12,14 144:19 145:10 145:13,20,20 146:1 147:13 148:2,8,14,20 149:2,4,7 151:7 155:12 156:7 157:2,6 157:9,12 158:7 Meeting [think - three] 159:8,17 160:19 161:4 163:1,5,9,13 163:15 164:12 164:18,20 165:7,13,15,16 168:8 169:21 171:4,9,16 175:5 179:7,12 179:13,14,17 179:18 180:8 180:11,13,13 180:18 181:4,7 182:2,15 186:13 187:10 187:12 188:5,6 188:8,13 189:3 189:6,19,21 190:1,7,9,12 190:13,19 191:21 193:16 193:19 195:17 205:10 209:22 211:4 212:4 213:4,17 214:2 214:7 216:2 222:16 231:11 231:16,20 232:4,8,22 233:1,10,15 234:4,10,11,17 234:21 235:1,6 235:12,16 238:13,13 240:12 242:8,9 243:9 244:20 244:22 245:2,4 245:20,21 April 18, 2023 Page 87 246:1,1,7,16 247:7,13 252:21,22 253:3 266:10 266:17 267:13 270:16 271:19 272:4 273:9 274:4,14,17 275:19 276:12 276:16 278:6 278:14,18,20 279:16 280:8 280:15,22 282:17,22 283:4,10,12 284:14 285:1,5 285:6,7,9 286:17,20 289:16 290:1 291:10,12 292:2,5 293:2 293:4,6,7,12 293:14,17 294:5 295:12 298:2,9,17,17 298:20 299:6 299:15,17 300:4,16 302:5 305:20 306:7 306:18,21 307:3 308:4,11 308:18,20 309:2,2,8,14 310:7,9 311:19 311:20 313:13 313:15 314:3 314:20 315:1 315:10,11,14 316:4,7,20 317:11,16,20 318:4 319:22 321:19 324:7,8 324:14 325:1,9 325:11,12,15 325:16,17,20 326:9,9 327:4 328:4,5,7,9,15 329:13,15,22 330:7 331:17 333:8,20 334:4 334:5,6,8,16 334:22,22 335:5,15 336:1 336:11,15 338:16 339:9 340:19 341:5,9 341:12,13 349:20,21 350:11 351:14 351:14,21 thinking 72:1 72:14 115:3 134:22 141:22 156:6 266:1,3 279:13,22 286:2 287:3 313:6 323:15 third 89:18 239:5 249:6 255:11 259:17 260:18 265:17 291:22 305:15 320:19 332:6 thoroughly 100:21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 thought 62:5 64:9 76:3 78:2 80:18 81:5,5 82:15 83:19 112:1 115:1,9 127:21,22 134:12 137:5 138:3,7 143:19 161:3 186:22 188:2 223:10 231:13 235:20 271:15 273:13 275:13 277:15 284:10 294:2 306:15 307:4 308:9 312:10 325:21 337:17 337:18 thoughtful 234:1 307:11 thoughts 85:1 89:13 90:2 114:5 142:13 143:4 307:8 337:8 thread 83:15 three 24:7 28:18 31:13 35:12 45:16 46:3,5 58:16 67:1,5 69:15 93:17 94:9 102:1,19 103:19 107:16 109:7 135:12 140:6 156:20 158:21,22 160:18,21,22 Meeting [three - tower] 164:17 165:12 180:9,22 182:9 185:7 198:8,13 198:15 199:9 199:15 203:16 203:18 206:16 206:21 216:11 216:12,17 217:9 219:2 222:6 225:3,4 230:8 231:6 233:18 235:22 258:22 261:14 264:14 269:13 270:2,13 282:12 283:1,4 290:14 291:19 291:20 294:16 296:14 307:12 308:2 309:12 310:6 327:7,19 334:20 347:6 348:13 351:13 351:14,15,22 threes 170:21 276:10 throat 60:16 throw 140:20 161:21 318:4 throws 125:6,7 thursday 44:14 tide 81:11 tie 64:11 83:15 112:1 276:14 278:6,13 287:16,21 288:12 292:7 294:9 296:20 April 18, 2023 Page 88 297:19 337:18 ties 64:13 108:22 296:18 tight 264:12 tilted 63:4 time 6:4 12:6,6 16:7 19:9 22:12 37:20 45:1 55:4 59:3 62:8 70:14 72:22 75:2 76:22,22 83:6 88:12,18 91:13 96:15 99:22 105:16 106:20 116:16 117:10 118:12 119:2 120:22 123:4 124:5,14 129:21 133:5 133:15 143:20 146:20 165:6 185:5 191:5 195:17 204:16 205:13 206:5 210:20 211:8 211:13 217:6 227:12 235:14 238:7 239:13 240:11 243:9 244:8 248:22 273:22 280:12 286:20 297:6 299:3 304:15 340:12 351:11 353:4,6,9 timeframe 246:15 timeless 250:18 timely 53:6 times 26:22 53:12 54:17,18 55:12 122:7,8 192:16 title 44:22 today 9:15 12:4 12:7 26:5 33:11 44:9 46:16 52:13 67:17 79:18 80:5 81:17 82:7 87:13 95:17 119:12 134:22 144:16 145:6 175:6 178:17 196:4 199:16 207:3,9 207:11 214:6 227:17 249:6 278:8 345:6 351:16 353:13 353:15 today's 8:7 44:6 204:16 267:2 together 37:9 42:5 58:17 61:16 83:15 232:9 250:20 278:7 286:17 293:4 306:21 308:8 309:5 322:3 332:3 335:6 337:18 told 129:9 211:5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 tom 268:14 tomorrow 254:19 278:8 278:12 tone 96:8 200:18 took 84:7 94:17 118:12 213:3 271:7 tool 90:12 203:15 330:8 top 74:3 96:4 97:13 100:9 110:14 170:14 171:6,14 174:7 211:1 246:19 247:2 286:13 297:10 349:2 topic 235:8 total 167:17 totally 184:15 touch 242:13 353:10 touched 146:7 349:16 tough 50:7 285:6 tour 59:15 toward 81:11 101:6 145:18 238:9 276:21 314:13 towards 90:16 104:17 118:7 141:19 152:18 260:4 292:21 tower 259:9 297:16 Meeting [towers - tubman] towers 259:7 263:12 297:7 326:6 328:20 track 164:20 tracy 3:9 12:19 154:4 199:13 200:4 205:16 205:18,19 206:12 215:4 224:5,6 228:6 247:9 tradition 134:22 156:6 157:21 traditional 64:1 80:11,14 80:20 93:11 108:22 109:3 117:21 118:1 138:10 157:12 161:2 275:10 287:17 tragic 198:15 trailblazers 246:11 trained 239:7 239:11,15 transcriber 356:1 transcript 356:3,5 transcriptionist 355:8 transition 345:21 translates 314:12 April 18, 2023 Page 89 transmitting 44:8 transport 198:19 261:9 travel 37:1 traveled 32:14 traveling 35:20 treasury 14:21 155:4 168:15 243:15 249:13 treat 128:2 tree 38:19 trees 35:14 65:21 259:10 287:18 tremendous 206:22 tremendously 353:7 tribute 206:12 tricky 302:4 tried 46:4 304:6 tries 65:18 trip 335:1 triple 3:6,8 8:18 11:11 12:15,16,16,18 196:8,17 197:17,18 198:2,6,11,14 198:17,19 199:3,10,11,12 199:22 200:5 201:6,8,13,19 202:5 203:3,15 203:19,21 204:7,11 216:10,14,20 217:1,5,17,20 217:22 218:15 219:5,6 221:18 222:15 225:16 226:13,15 227:1 triumph 63:6 triumphant 334:14 troops 197:11 218:18 261:19 339:17 trouble 275:2 286:16 314:9 troubled 65:9 troubling 162:2 true 146:22 240:2,3 355:9 356:5 truly 105:22 truman 255:16 trust 33:20 truth 17:6,8 20:19,21 55:12 76:17 try 65:14 80:1 103:5 130:15 133:19 230:8 242:12 274:1,3 328:5,16 trying 53:14,17 67:5 72:16 75:14 81:16 95:3,16,17 106:19 120:20 121:8 124:2,3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 124:6 178:16 186:14 190:2 268:5 274:17 278:10 291:7 292:4 294:8 328:13 tubman 2:14 2:21 3:3 5:7 8:13 11:2 12:8 12:11 25:19 26:10,15,17 27:7,10,17 28:2,5,12 29:8 29:13,22 30:21 31:2,12,14 32:9 33:19 34:4,10,16,20 35:2,10 36:7 36:12 37:4,19 37:22 38:2,3,7 38:10,15,20 39:4,8,16,22 40:1,8,13,20 40:21 41:4,5 41:18,19,22 42:13 43:5 44:1 45:4,6,11 52:14,15 53:7 53:20 54:1,16 58:8 59:4,7,13 59:22 60:13 64:2 67:20 68:7 73:8 74:2 74:14 76:1 79:12 80:3 87:13,18 88:2 88:2 92:21 93:3,14,21 Meeting [tubman - unanimously] 94:1 95:1 100:13,18 101:19 113:9 123:22 126:6 126:17 128:13 129:10 133:22 138:8 144:17 151:5 156:15 157:21 163:5 180:16 181:8 188:3 189:21 202:12 207:7 241:18 269:6 tubman's 26:12 28:18 30:15 32:5 36:16 39:13 41:8,11,13 42:4,6,17 104:16 123:14 129:19 134:20 148:12 155:10 156:12 161:4 168:9 tucked 248:1,1 tucker 3:20 7:14,15 72:20 89:5,8,21 98:14,16 112:9 129:13,16 142:16 153:4,6 155:2,15,19 158:7,11 160:7 160:11,13,15 160:15 162:11 162:13 166:22 168:6,7 169:13 173:11,15 177:6 181:14 181:16,16,19 181:20 183:20 194:10 236:1 243:7 264:2,5 264:9 265:6 270:14,15 282:13,14 300:3,8 304:3 304:4 324:22 333:2,3 341:3 342:19,20,21 353:8 tuesday 1:6 6:4 tunnel 76:16 295:2 turn 18:18 21:20 24:3 43:9 56:20 63:17 64:18 67:9 68:14 72:19 79:5 83:2 92:14 102:21 104:13 105:13 106:11 108:11 109:11 112:8 114:7 115:19 132:19 136:7,10 137:20 140:7 141:2 142:15 155:1 205:14 272:8 273:18 276:19 277:13 282:12 285:20 288:3 292:19 293:22 312:13 312:20 313:5 April 18, 2023 Page 90 314:7 316:19 319:6 328:10 330:11 turned 137:4 187:13 320:14 turning 19:8 66:9 114:19 283:16 284:20 310:14 turrets 317:7 twenty 252:10 twice 237:12 two 8:8 14:12 24:6 30:4 36:3 37:9 38:8 41:7 44:6 46:8,8,9 46:19 58:11 61:8 63:20 78:17 82:15 86:15 90:5 98:8 106:9 112:18 123:15 124:2 134:15 135:21 139:7 141:16 142:9 148:19 149:9 157:19 158:16 158:20,22 160:6,9 162:5 165:8,9,17 170:4 174:15 178:7 180:15 188:17,18 189:10 190:9 192:8 206:22 214:21,22 215:3 216:10 217:9 219:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 221:22 222:7 223:1 238:22 249:3 258:22 273:21 276:8 284:11 291:6 296:11 309:16 311:8 315:11 334:20 338:13 338:15 type 107:21 311:11 types 206:18 328:14 typewriting 355:7 typically 118:1 192:2 285:2 319:11 tyranny 250:10 u u.s. 1:10 2:4 3:9 ugly 317:21 ultimately 46:17 100:8 273:7 315:14 334:12 unable 46:5 59:5 unanimous 175:3 222:5 349:8,11 350:1 352:8 unanimously 175:13 176:17 195:5 244:1 342:4,8 343:4 Meeting [uncluttered - unwavering] uncluttered 276:12 287:17 uncomfortable 123:17 125:5 undelivered 197:8 198:12 undeniable 24:19 under 216:8 underground 3:2 12:10 26:18 27:9 28:21 29:6,12 30:1,17 31:21 34:21 35:5,11 35:16 36:17,19 36:21 37:1,11 37:15 40:10 41:2 42:14 43:4,6,19,22 45:1 59:14 60:3 64:3 68:10 74:15 75:3,22 76:3,9 76:16,19 94:13 96:6,6 102:5 110:5 113:18 163:7 190:4 underscores 127:1 314:2 understand 44:21 75:3,13 95:20 118:2 134:19 140:1 168:1 191:17 214:21 233:18 242:11 265:2 274:2 293:11 313:18 315:12 320:3 333:6 339:19 351:3 351:21 understanding 32:4 73:12 107:11 126:8 227:8 understands 53:13 understood 95:1 152:7 155:20 162:16 194:10 266:22 329:5 unfortunately 115:10 unfriendly 178:21 unidentified 99:1 119:8 132:20 149:18 149:21 164:16 170:8 174:1 177:1 311:16 319:3 332:20 unified 94:14 uniform 112:17 217:10 220:4,10 221:13 227:9 227:10,10 228:3,4,14,15 228:15 269:17 269:19 339:11 uniforms 227:19 247:19 247:20,21 April 18, 2023 Page 91 301:20 union 27:12,13 38:16,22 39:17 40:3 119:2 120:8 126:9 310:6 unique 200:5 209:22 221:14 222:15,19 247:7 290:2 uniquely 208:3 208:4 209:1,10 212:21 unit 197:16 199:1,5 200:6 200:14 201:3 201:20 202:2,4 202:5,22 204:5 204:5 213:4 221:10,11 226:8,16 238:4 239:2 299:14 unit's 197:19 unite 254:18 united 14:5 16:22 17:4 20:14,17 24:22 31:7 32:2 33:21 84:20 93:18,22 119:3 198:20 199:6 201:11 249:20 250:20 251:5 260:10 262:5,9 262:16 300:13 304:10 306:1 308:8 340:3 343:17 344:5,8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 344:11,21 units 200:14 246:13 unity 250:17 255:9 257:15 259:14 260:6 260:15 262:14 262:19,22 305:19 306:19 307:4 308:8,14 308:17,22 316:1 322:14 322:15,15 336:10,15 341:12 universally 32:16 university 18:22 59:1 60:9,12 unpopular 126:3 unquote 74:3 unrelated 305:12 unremarkable 115:11 unser 4:8 9:11 unsorted 218:20 unum 33:21 260:5 306:20 unusual 45:16 229:16,18 290:11,15 unusually 61:5 unwavering 28:15 Meeting [upcoming - viewers] upcoming 354:4 upfront 57:14 131:5 upper 37:9 129:3 upraised 263:7 upstate 58:21 73:5 upward 37:10 63:4 urban 320:15 urge 159:20 usaffe 300:12 use 66:15 98:19 103:14,16 113:6 122:1 182:13 232:6 233:1 252:22 266:11 307:4 323:19 324:1,8 325:1 used 39:5 107:13 109:3,9 116:13 123:2,3 182:13 246:11 268:17 354:13 useful 216:2 uses 44:17 90:10,13 113:21 using 68:19 104:9 106:1 123:3 187:22 232:6 276:15 278:5 333:4 uss 212:22 April 18, 2023 Page 92 usual 64:20 234:1 281:6 v valor 344:19 valuable 79:14 351:15 value 46:11 106:8 138:4 179:10 242:9 valued 33:5 values 41:14 42:4,9,15,22 79:22 80:1,5 80:16 81:1 134:20 144:13 144:17 145:16 145:18 150:22 151:1,6 van 3:21 7:17 7:18 23:18,18 46:19 67:9,10 106:12 107:20 140:9 164:6,18 169:15 173:13 174:12 175:18 175:18 183:22 185:9,13 186:18 189:12 236:6,7 270:5 270:9,12 273:19 296:7 296:10,10 301:1 312:14 317:4,6 328:12 330:4 342:12 348:17 349:5 350:4,4 variations 161:11 varieties 101:10 variety 19:3 101:22 various 207:8 282:16 289:13 291:15 296:15 vasquez 2:6 9:21 10:1 26:4 26:6,8 29:19 30:6 31:16 33:12 43:21 44:3,20 46:7 46:10 56:2,7 87:5,9,9 121:9 121:11 132:21 133:3,10 185:2 veer 101:6 326:19 vegetables 55:15 vehicle 216:18 vein 80:13 verify 77:8 versions 286:8 versus 131:21 227:21 316:11 vertical 39:21 145:6 236:17 295:13 vessel 107:14 107:15,21 108:4 vessels 107:16 veteran 117:10 200:8 202:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 204:15 227:4 veterans 208:13 victory 218:11 218:11 250:1 254:2 256:4,8 257:3,11,12,22 258:4 259:19 260:6 261:8 262:18 272:15 286:21,22 288:12,12,15 288:17 292:9 318:6,10,14,15 321:13 327:14 328:19,20 329:1 331:17 333:7,8 335:19 335:19 vietnam 110:20 view 126:2 159:3 237:1 254:20 256:2 257:20 259:1,6 259:8 262:20 263:11 277:7 285:16 293:17 310:1 312:8 322:10 326:3 329:14 341:14 viewed 31:10 127:12 viewer 34:10 34:13,16 39:6 80:21 81:13 82:19 viewers 114:1 Meeting [viewpoint - war] viewpoint 314:20 views 33:4 306:8 327:11 viola 53:4 virginia 295:6 virtual 54:13 54:14 virtually 6:8 92:20 96:19 206:11 249:4 281:8 302:11 vision 354:13 visionary 28:13 visit 24:11 334:5 visitors 59:13 visual 112:12 129:12 visually 129:9 129:11 180:1 238:14 voice 124:20 volunteered 300:12 volunteers 31:20 vote 23:22 90:17 92:9 98:2 100:9 106:9 120:5 121:8 130:12 131:11,20 137:18 139:15 139:17 149:11 151:16 152:20 153:13,13,16 153:21 154:20 April 18, 2023 Page 93 154:20 155:10 162:13,14,19 164:2 165:9 167:2 168:2,15 168:20 170:14 170:15 171:5,7 171:11,14,14 174:7 175:6 179:1,3 182:16 184:5 185:14 245:22 282:2 303:5,10 309:18 322:8 330:4,22 331:7 332:2 334:1 338:13 341:21 voted 98:11 161:10 178:2 325:5 voters 188:10 votes 89:19 137:17 143:11 153:10 158:17 169:20 243:12 279:7 292:12 309:5 324:15 voting 89:9 90:9 91:15,16 162:5 170:18 183:4,6,8 243:12 325:22 vs 218:11 w waist 248:1 wait 89:11,17 132:5,16 waiting 347:2 waivers 201:16 walk 81:7 345:20 walking 64:7 64:14 263:12 314:22 walkways 326:6 wall 253:8,11 253:18 254:4,9 255:13 263:3 275:7 277:22 346:2 walls 76:12 walmart 246:20 want 6:14 13:19 18:6 25:2 30:4,20 45:2 48:3,14 53:10 56:11 61:4,6,20 66:21,21 67:11 71:12 73:3,19 81:14 84:2,13 85:19 86:9 93:5 108:4 114:15,22 115:5,7 118:13 122:4,8,9 123:19 132:5 141:16 146:18 149:10 153:12 156:19 164:6 174:20 178:18 191:8 192:4 195:13 202:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 203:14 208:18 210:19,19 212:3,4 231:7 233:19 235:4,5 238:2,17 247:21 268:10 269:10 273:20 274:6 279:19 279:20 287:11 290:8,19,22 298:7 301:17 307:19 315:15 316:14 321:7 324:18 328:18 331:16 332:1,2 334:14 339:19 345:7 352:7,19 wanted 57:10 83:9 88:8 89:9 94:9 96:10 111:20 121:21 194:7 274:1 281:1 288:16 299:5,19 327:3 wanting 227:13 273:10 308:9 wants 31:11 53:12 180:2 210:15 298:19 war 3:10 13:2 27:12,21 28:2 29:1,2 38:1,8 38:12,22 39:1 39:2,6 40:3,5,6 40:16,21 100:20 101:16 102:6 104:16 Meeting [war - we've] 104:20,21 106:4,18 107:6 109:9 110:4,9 110:14,17,20 110:20 111:6 111:13 112:2,6 112:14,16 113:16 116:13 116:15,16 117:17,18 120:7 122:10 122:11,12,15 124:12 125:18 126:3 132:12 157:9 166:7,15 166:17 186:6,8 186:10 188:19 190:5 193:4 199:7 200:6,14 201:10 204:20 204:20 220:2 221:20 222:22 239:4 246:7 249:15,17,18 249:21 250:14 251:1,2,7,13 251:14 252:13 253:8,13 254:1 254:5,6,9,12 254:15,21 255:6,9 256:4 256:14,19,21 257:2,4,5,9,15 257:22 258:9 258:12 259:2,7 259:9,19,21 260:3,11,14,17 261:9,16 262:1 April 18, 2023 Page 94 262:10,13,17 262:21 263:3 263:11 264:12 264:16 268:10 268:16 271:5,6 276:13 277:21 283:2,6 289:14 297:3 304:10 305:9,22 306:2 307:21,22 308:20 310:19 311:1,2 315:10 317:13 318:11 320:4,4,17,20 321:12 323:6,8 325:16,17,18 326:13,13 327:14 333:8 334:10,11 335:4 338:6 339:9,22 344:8 warehouse 218:19 warehouses 196:19 197:8 warm 52:7 warranted 91:4 warren 2:11 6:6 9:5,8,10 10:6,16,19 11:7,12,16 20:4,6 29:18 89:3,5 97:5 98:13 99:9 129:13 130:17 130:20 131:1 133:1,4,8 136:8,13 147:3 81:12 89:19 151:19,22 94:18 100:20 152:4 153:3 101:3 109:15 168:3 177:3 125:1 141:22 178:5 195:18 145:2,15 150:9 196:1 215:18 156:16 157:1 243:4,6 244:3 160:4 161:17 244:7,10,13 163:14,18,18 248:18,22 165:11 166:10 249:2 264:2 170:17 181:2,8 281:12 296:6 190:21 204:14 299:22 300:5 220:4 223:21 302:13,16 239:20 252:16 307:14 319:2 264:19,22 330:14,17 269:7 274:14 340:9,22 276:8,9 277:11 354:15 290:1 291:9 wars 268:11 294:9 295:17 warship 104:21 296:2,3 301:22 wartime 314:11 315:1 197:22 225:11 322:16 324:18 washington 329:20 330:2 1:13 18:21 349:1 352:10 250:5 ways 60:14 watched 79:13,14 82:21 292:14 110:3 143:15 watching 70:14 145:18 326:15 261:8,9 304:18 we've 23:7 32:6 waved 120:12 33:7 89:11 waver 120:9 90:22 104:2 waving 119:5 130:9,10,11 119:11 127:16 161:7 163:4,20 313:21 166:13,14 way 27:3 32:21 175:5 185:7 55:1 62:3 63:1 187:7,13 191:4 65:7 71:19 191:4 192:20 73:4 75:5 77:5 211:18,19 78:8,16 81:2 213:19 237:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting [we've - wondering] 269:2 304:2 325:4 weapons 216:17 wearing 188:22 227:20,21 website 207:12 212:22 weeks 354:5 weigh 86:3 143:13 weight 140:21 182:3 weinman 2:13 10:20,22 90:19 96:22 97:8,10 98:9,12 131:3 131:5 136:18 152:8,10 153:14 154:6 158:14,15 160:4,8 164:1 164:5 165:21 168:1 171:8 172:8 173:18 175:2,14 182:21 183:8 192:6 193:17 281:8,15,17 302:19,21 330:6,19,21 331:11 weird 22:13 welcome 16:7 16:11 18:1,18 19:10,17 21:16 22:1 29:21 44:3 52:7 April 18, 2023 Page 95 72:21 248:12 255:22 305:5 welcoming 21:17 weldon 210:8 211:19 went 22:7,7 76:6,8 103:7 133:1 200:20 200:21 201:1 204:21 276:6 277:8 286:1 291:4 308:5 344:13 whatnot 163:7 whatsoever 78:4 wheat 262:8 whitaker 2:17 11:9 white 2:20 11:21 12:1 117:5 201:3 whites 54:8 whoa 343:5 wholehearted... 24:12 wide 19:3 35:6 296:19 widely 93:17 wife 206:21 310:20 wild 38:17 william 59:6 williams 286:11 willing 68:12 186:16 210:14 241:15,22 win 233:16,16 239:4 242:17 242:17 352:14 wings 291:10 wins 233:1,8 wintertime 201:1 wise 157:4 wish 133:11 242:14 350:21 wishing 233:17 313:22 withdraw 159:22 162:9 186:17,22 189:14 193:6 withdrawing 187:1 withhold 137:17 witness 355:4 witnessed 128:2 wives 345:2 349:15 woman 27:20 30:19,22,22 38:11 80:8 92:21 93:6 94:1 109:1 200:18 204:18 223:5 240:18 313:20 339:15 women 32:19 32:20 52:16,16 52:22 120:4,4 188:4 197:14 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 200:15,19,21 201:6,8,15 202:21 203:16 203:18,21 204:18,21 210:17 214:8,8 221:15,17,19 222:12,20 223:11,16 224:1,11 225:3 225:14 228:7 230:17 247:14 268:1 344:10 women's 3:9 5:11 8:16 11:10 12:14,20 27:7 28:10 120:1,3 196:6 196:15 199:14 200:6 201:20 202:1,22 217:2 220:2,6,8,12 220:16 221:15 222:12 223:7 226:11,11 won 310:19 wonder 337:14 wondered 51:5 wonderful 30:5 52:5 53:9 58:18 67:13 68:12 73:22 75:1 133:18 231:1 270:17 271:13 275:18 283:13 305:7 wondering 44:18 47:13 Meeting [wondering - 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