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Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 1 1 CITIZENS COINAGE ADVISORY COMMITTEE PUBLIC MEETING 2 3 4 Moderated by Dr. Peter van Alfen 5 Tuesday, April 16, 2024 6 10:01 a.m. 7 8 9 Department of the Treasury, U.S. Mint 10 801 9th Street, Southwest 11 Washington, D.C. 20220 12 13 14 15 16 Reported by: Matthew Yancey 17 JOB NO.: 6590121 18 19 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 List of Attendees: 3 Jennifer Warren, Director of Legislative and 4 Intergovernmental Affairs and Mint Liaison to the CCAC 5 Peter van Alfen, Specially Qualified as a Numismatic 6 Curator and Chairperson of the CCAC 7 Arthur Bernstein, Representing the General Public 8 Dr. Harcourt Fuller, Recommended by the Speaker of the 9 House 10 Dr. Christopher Capozzola, Specially Qualified in 11 American History 12 John Saunders, Recommended by the House Minority 13 Leader 14 Michael Moran, Recommended by the Senate Majority 15 Leader 16 Donald Scarinci, Recommended by the Senate Minority 17 Leader 18 Dennis Tucker, Specially Qualified in Numismatics 19 Kellen Hoard, Representing the General Public 20 Annelisa Purdie, Representing the General Public 21 Dr. Dean Kotlowski, former CCAC Member 22 April Stafford, Chief, Office of Design Management www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 3 1 A P P E A R A N C E S (Cont'd) 2 List of Attendees (Cont'd): 3 Megan Sullivan, Senior Design Specialist 4 Roger Vasquez, Senior Design Manager 5 Russell Evans, Design Manager 6 Boneza Hanchock, Design Manager 7 Sukrita Baijal, Design Manager 8 Joseph Menna, Chief Engraver 9 Greg Weinman, Senior Legal Counsel and Counsel to the 10 CCAC 11 Brendan Tate, Senior Government Affairs Specialist, 12 Office of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs 13 Dr. Sheila Chamberlain, Emmett Till Justice Campaign 14 Linn Cornelius, Representative of the Oneida Nation 15 Celia Belmonte, Assistant General Counsel of the 16 Oneida Indian Nation 17 Denise Desiderio, Senior Policy Advisor for Akin, on 18 behalf of the Oneida Indian Nation 19 Kristie McNally, Deputy Director, United States Mint 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 4 1 C O N T E N T S 2 PAGE 3 Call to Order & Roll Call 4 Review and Approval of Minutes and Letters to 5 Secretary from the February 27, 2024 6 Public Meeting 12 7 Public Service Award to Dean Kotlowski 13 8 Comments from Chair 16 9 Review and Discussion of the Candidate Designs 10 for the Emmett Till and Mamie Till-Mobley 11 Congressional Gold Medal 12 Review and Discussion of Candidate Designs 13 for 2026 Native American $1 Coin 14 Review and Discussion of Candidate Designs 15 for the 2025 American Liberty 24K Gold Coin 16 and Silver Medal 17 18 19 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 5 18 78 150 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 5 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Good 3 morning. I call to order this meeting of the Citizens 4 Coinage Advisory Committee, for Tuesday, April 16, 5 2024. And the time is 10:01. 6 This is the first of a two-day public 7 meeting. 8 approximately 4:00 p.m., at which point the CCAC will 9 recess until tomorrow's session, that is scheduled to 10 Today's session is scheduled to run until begin at promptly 9:00 a.m. 11 Please note that this meeting today and 12 tomorrow is recorded. 13 public watching live on YouTube. 14 want to remind members to announce your name when you 15 are speaking, for the transcript and for the public 16 listening. 17 And I want to welcome the And finally, I do Before we begin, I want to introduce 18 members of the Committee, so please respond, 19 "present," when I call your name. 20 21 22 Arthur Bernstein, representing the general public. MR. BERNSTEIN: Present. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 6 1 2 THE CHAIRMAN: Dr. Harcourt Fuller, recommended by the Speaker of the House. 3 DR. FULLER: Present. 4 THE CHAIRMAN: Dr. Christopher 5 Capozzola, the member specially qualified in American 6 history. 7 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 8 THE CHAIRMAN: 9 Present. John Saunders, recommended by the House Minority Leader. 10 MR. SAUNDERS: Present. 11 THE CHAIRMAN: Michael Moran, 12 recommended by Senate Majority Leader. 13 MR. MORAN: 14 THE CHAIRMAN: 15 Present. Donald Scarinci, recommended by the Senate Minority Leader. 16 MR. SCARINCI: Present. 17 THE CHAIRMAN: Dennis Tucker, the 18 member specially qualified in numismatics. 19 MR. TUCKER: 20 THE CHAIRMAN: 21 22 Present. Kellen Hoard, representing the general public. MR. HOARD: Present. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 7 1 2 THE CHAIRMAN: Annelisa Purdie, representing the general public. 3 MS. PURDIE: 4 THE CHAIRMAN: Present. And I am Peter van 5 Alfen, the member specially qualified as a numismatic 6 curator and the chairperson of the CCAC. 7 I believe we have a quorum. 8 MR. WEINMAN: 9 THE CHAIRMAN: We do. The agenda for today's 10 session includes approval of minutes and letters to 11 the Secretary from the February 17, 2024, public 12 meeting, a public service award ceremony for former 13 CCAC member, Dean Kotlowski, who is present with us, 14 review and discussion of the candidate designs for 15 Emmett Till and Mamie Till-Mobley Congressional Gold 16 Medal, review and discussion of candidate designs for 17 the 2026 Native American Dollar Coin, and review and 18 discussion of candidate designs for the 2025 Liberty 19 24-Karat Gold Coin and Silver Medal. 20 Before we begin our proceedings, I ask 21 the Mint liaison to the CCAC, Ms. Jennifer Warren, if 22 we are aware of any members of the press who are www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 8 1 remotely watching this public meeting? 2 MS. WARREN: Good morning. This is 3 Jennifer Warren. 4 editor, is on the call, and Mike Unser, founder and 5 editor of CoinNews Media Group. 6 7 THE CHAIRMAN: confirm that the following Mint staff are in attendance today. 11 I have called your name. 12 So please indicate "present" after Deputy Director Kristie McNally, U.S. Mint. 14 MS. MCNALLY: 15 THE CHAIRMAN: 16 Thank you For the record, I would also like to 10 13 All right. very much. 8 9 Paul Gilkes from Coin World, senior Present. April Stafford, Chief of the Office of Design Management. 17 MS. STAFFORD: Present. 18 THE CHAIRMAN: Megan Sullivan, Senior 19 Design Specialist. 20 MS. SULLIVAN: Present. 21 THE CHAIRMAN: Roger Vasquez, Senior 22 Design Manager. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 9 1 MR. VASQUEZ: 2 THE CHAIRMAN: 3 Present. Russell Evans, Design Manager. 4 MR. EVANS: 5 THE CHAIRMAN: Boneza Hanchock, Design 7 MS. HANCHOCK: Present. 8 THE CHAIRMAN: Sukrita Baijal, Design 6 9 Present. Manager. Manager. 10 MS. BAIJAL: 11 THE CHAIRMAN: 12 Present. Michael Costello, Manager of Design and Engraving. 13 MS. STAFFORD: 14 THE CHAIRMAN: Joseph Menna, Chief 15 Not present. Engraver. 16 MR. MENNA: Present. 17 THE CHAIRMAN: Jennifer Warren, 18 Director of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs 19 and Liaison to the CCAC. 20 MS. WARREN: 21 THE CHAIRMAN: 22 Present. Greg Weinman, Senior Legal Counsel and Counsel to the CCAC. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 10 1 MR. WEINMAN: 2 THE CHAIRMAN: Present. And finally, Brendan 3 Tate, Senior Government Affairs Specialist, Office of 4 Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs. 5 MR. TATE: 6 THE CHAIRMAN: 7 All right. Thank you very much. 8 9 Present. And finally, I want to note for the record that we will be joined later in the meeting by 10 the liaisons for the various programs we are reviewing 11 today. 12 Congressional Gold Medal, we will be joined by Dr. 13 Sheila Chamberlain, from the Emmett Till Justice 14 Campaign. 15 For the Emmett Till and Mamie Till-Mobley And for the 2026 Native American $1 16 Coin, we will be joined by Linn Cornelius, 17 representative of the Oneida Nation, referred to us by 18 officials for her family's research and knowledge on 19 the subject of Polly Cooper, Celia Belmonte, Assistant 20 General Counsel of the Oneida Indian Nation, and 21 Denise Desiderio, Senior Policy Advisor from Akin, on 22 behalf of the Oneida Indian Nation. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 11 1 We welcome you all. We thank you for 2 joining us today, and we look forward to hearing from 3 you on your preferences and thoughts on the 4 portfolios. 5 So I'd like to begin with the Mint. 6 Are there any other issues that need to be addressed 7 before we start? 8 9 All right. Then, the first order of business for this committee is the review and approval 10 of the CCAC minutes and letters to Secretary of the 11 Treasury, from our public meeting on February 27, 12 2024. Are there any comments on any of the documents? 13 14 All right. Hearing none, is there a motion to approve the minutes and letters? 15 MR. TUCKER: 16 THE CHAIRMAN: 17 Dennis Tucker; I move. All right. Is there a second? 18 MR. HOARD: 19 THE CHAIRMAN: 20 MS. WARREN: 21 Jennifer Warren. 22 name, and -- Second. Kellen, thank you. Excuse me. This is When you do that please, say your www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 12 1 MR. HOARD: 2 THE CHAIRMAN: 3 All right. All those in favor, please signify by saying "aye." 6 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 7 THE CHAIRMAN: 8 9 Thank you, Kellen. 4 5 Kellen Hoard; second. Aye. Are there any objections to the motion? All right. Hearing none, without 10 objection, the minutes and letters are approved. 11 The next order of business is the 12 presentation of the Citizen Coinage Advisory Committee 13 Public Service Award to Dr. Dean Kotlowski. 14 have to say -- oh, and in recognition of his loyal and 15 outstanding service, Deputy Director McNally will be 16 presenting this award to Dr. Kotlowski today. 17 And I But before we turn it over to Deputy 18 Director McNally, I would like to say that one of the 19 greatest pleasures of serving on the CCAC is spending 20 time with and getting to know the other members, and 21 although, honestly, there never really seems to be 22 enough time for that. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 13 1 So, Dean, your good cheer at the table, 2 and great insights into U.S. history, in conversation 3 as well as your critical eye for design in our 4 meetings, has really been sorely missed since we last 5 saw you nearly a year ago today. 6 pleasure to have you back, if only briefly. 7 you. It really is a great So thank 8 Deputy Director McNally, please. 9 MS. MCNALLY: Okay. I'm Kristie 10 McNally; I'm the Deputy Director at Mint, for any of 11 you who I have not met yet. 12 here this morning for this award. And I'm so excited to be 13 Appointed to the CCAC in December 2018, 14 Dr. Kotlowski served as the member specially qualified 15 in American history. 16 U.S. political and policy history, he is a professor 17 of history at Salisbury University. 18 a historical advisor to the National Archives and the 19 Richard Nixon Library. 20 Civil Rights: Politics, Principle, and Policy" and 21 "Paul V. McNutt and Age of FDR." 22 A specialist in 20th century He has served as He is the author of "Nixon's He has been a Fulbright Scholar four www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 14 1 times to Philippines, Austria and Australia. That's 2 quite the accomplishment. 3 Australia, Dr. Kotlowski showed his dedication to the 4 CCAC by joining remotely for very long CCAC meetings 5 in the middle of the night during his time. 6 with enthusiasm. During this time in He did so 7 As a member of the CCAC, Dr. Kotlowski 8 was extremely committed to the work of the Committee. 9 Specifically, over the years he has served on the 10 working group subcommittees including the FY 2022 to 11 consider theme ideas and provide recommendations back 12 to the full committee. 13 Dr. Kotlowski's last meeting was April 14 18, 2023, and today we're honoring him for his service 15 in the CCAC, the Mint, and the Department of the 16 Treasury, by presenting him with the Citizens Coinage 17 Advisory Committee Public Service Award, which is 18 beautiful. 19 The CCAC Public Service Award 20 recognizes the contribution of a member of the CCAC 21 who honorably served the public interest by advising 22 the Secretary of Treasury on theme and design www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 15 1 proposals relating to circulating coinage, bullion 2 coinage, Congressional Gold Medals, and national 3 medals produced by the United States Mint. 4 The award contains a framed certificate 5 and two bronze medals, a three-inch Alexander Hamilton 6 Secretary Medal, and a three-inch silver or bronze 7 medal, which was reviewed by the CCAC, typically 8 during the tenure of the recipient. 9 requested a three-inch bronze duplicate of the Dr. Kotlowski 10 Congressional Gold Medal, which was awarded for the 11 United States Capitol Police and those who protected 12 the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021. 13 Today, I am pleased to present the 14 Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Public Service 15 Award to Dr. Kotlowski. 16 provided inspired and thoughtful input to the 17 development of numerous United States coins and 18 medals, and is highly regarded by his colleagues, and 19 respected for his opinions and insight. 20 All right. Dr. Kotlowski consistently Ladies and gentlemen, 21 please join me in thanking and congratulating Dr. 22 Kotlowski for his service to the CCAC. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 16 1 And I will turn over the microphone for 2 a few words. Hopefully, this is not putting you on 3 the spot, but feel free. 4 DR. KOTLOWSKI: I was known for using 5 the full three minutes. 6 once. 7 previous person said." 8 "That's the shortest you've ever been." I simply said, "I agree with everything the 9 10 I'll quote John Saunders And John said afterwards, So in that vein, I've got five words. I miss you all. 11 Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: All right, Dean. Thank 12 you very much. 13 all, very much as well. 14 speak on behalf of the CCAC, and we are very happy to 15 have you back with us, again, if only briefly, as 16 you're being honored with this award. 17 congratulations, and again, thank you for your service 18 on the Committee. 19 And I have to say that we miss you, All right. And I'm confident that I So I would -- before we begin, 20 I'd like to take a moment to reflect on the work that 21 lies ahead of us today and tomorrow. 22 work that we do on this committee is focused on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 A lot of the Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 17 1 celebrating or honoring either individuals or groups 2 of individuals who have made significant contributions 3 to our nation through their hard work or sacrifices. 4 Often, as in the case of the designs 5 for the American Women Quarters Program that we've 6 been reviewing over the last several years, there has 7 been a lot of joy and real pleasure in spotlighting 8 both well-known and lesser-known women, and learning 9 of their lives and contributions, sometimes from the 10 very people who knew them vest, their family and 11 colleagues. 12 Today, as part of the Native American 13 $1 Coin program, we will be reviewing candidate 14 designs honoring Polly Cooper, and bringing her story 15 to greater light. 16 American woman to appear in this program, she is from 17 the deepest past. 18 Revolutionary War aiding Washington's troops at Valley 19 Forge predate Sacagawea's aid to Lewis and Clark by 20 several decades. 21 both born in the 18th century, on two sides of the 22 same 21st century coin will be truly remarkable and While she is not the first Native Her actions during the To have both of these native women, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 18 1 2 something to celebrate. We will also be reviewing candidate 3 designs for medals honoring two other women, Secretary 4 of the Treasury, Janet Yellen, the first woman to hold 5 that position, and Mint Director Ventris C. Gibson. 6 While Director Gibson is not the first woman to lead 7 the Mint, she is the first African American to do so. 8 And on our agenda for tomorrow, we are 9 reviewing the design candidates for a new 10 commemorative coin program celebrating the 250th 11 anniversary of the United States Marine Corps. 12 I never served, I do feel great respect, as I'm sure 13 my colleagues do, for those servicemen and women who 14 have served, and I look forward to helping the Marines 15 celebrate this great milestone. 16 While On occasion, we on this committee face 17 the darker side of our history as well, where there is 18 no joy and celebration. 19 Emmett Till in 1955, is one of the most sickening and 20 profoundly sad events to take place in this country, 21 and one that continues to resonate powerfully, nearly 22 three-quarters of a century later. The lynching of 14-year-old www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 19 1 It was only in the wake of another 2 horrific murder, that of George Floyd, that the Emmett 3 Till Antilynching Act was passed by Congress, and 4 signed into law in March of 2022, the first long 5 overdue law to define lynching as a Federal hate 6 crime. 7 to both Till and his mother, Mamie Till-Mobley, an 8 immensely courageous woman, who in the midst of grief 9 became a formidable voice for the cause of Civil Months later, Congress awarded its gold medal 10 Rights, as we shall hear shortly. By the time she 11 died in 2003, that struggle was still far from over. 12 And on that solemn note, I'd now like 13 to move on to first portfolio to be reviewed today, 14 and that is the Emmett Till and Mamie Till-Mobley 15 Congressional Gold Medal. 16 Medal was authorized by Public Law 117-334. 17 Stafford and Megan Sullivan will now present the 18 candidate obverse and reverse candidate designs for 19 the Emmett Till and Mamie Till-Mobley Congressional 20 Gold Medal. The Congressional Gold 21 April, please. 22 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And April On August Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 20 1 28, 1955, 14-year-old Emmett Till was kidnapped, 2 beaten, shot, and killed in Money, Mississippi, where 3 he had traveled from Chicago to visit his great uncle. 4 His body was discovered three days later in the 5 Tallahatchie River. 6 eye-witness testimony, but the murderers were still 7 acquitted. His uncle was able to provide 8 Emmett's mother, Mamie Till-Mobley, had 9 his body brought back to Chicago, and demanded an open 10 casket funeral, demonstrating her love for her son and 11 courage and strength in suffering. 12 wanted the world to see what they did to my baby." 13 In her words, "I Emmett's funeral drew more than 50,000 14 attendees. Till-Mobley allowed a photograph to be 15 taken of Emmett's body, which was seen across the 16 country after being published by Jet Magazine and the 17 Chicago Defender Newspaper. 18 Till-Mobley traveled to Mississippi to testify at the 19 trial of her son's murderers, and went on a national 20 speaking tour to share her son's story. 21 became a catalyst for the Civil Rights Movement, as 22 her courageous testimony and Emmett's inextinguishable Amidst her grief, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Her actions Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 21 1 light exposed the true depths of the horrors born from 2 racism in this country. 3 Till-Mobley served as chair and 4 co-founder of the Emmett Till Justice Campaign, which 5 had the dual purpose of reopening Emmett Till's murder 6 case for reinvestigation, and advocating for Federal 7 legislation to ensure that other racially motivated 8 murders during the Civil Rights era were investigated 9 and when possible, prosecuted. In 2003, Till-Mobley 10 completed her memoir, "Death of Innocence: The Story 11 of the Hate Crime that Changed America," and passed 12 away later that same year. 13 We are presenting these candidate 14 designs to the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee 15 today in pursuit of input that can help determine next 16 steps in the development of this medal, be that 17 recommendations to the Secretary of the Treasury, 18 recommended edits to existing designs, or suggestions 19 for new imagery on this subject. 20 Designs for this medal were developed 21 in consultation with Dr. Sheila Chamberlain, of the 22 Emmett Till Justice Campaign, and a family member of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 22 1 Emmett Till and Mamie Till-Mobley. 2 fortunate that Dr. Chamberlin is with us today. 3 4 We're very Dr. Chamberlain, would you like to say a few words to the Committee? 5 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: Yes, I would. 6 of all, I'd like to say my name, Sheila L. 7 Chamberlain. 8 morning, everyone. 9 here to represent my family. I hope I did that right. First Anyway, good It's a pleasure and an honor to be I think I have a little 10 bit -- a few years left, but I'm still hanging in 11 there. 12 The death of Emmett affected all of our 13 family members, different fractions inside of our 14 family. 15 unite us, and hopefully our country in a way that is 16 different -- I thank you for your time -- thank the 17 U.S. Mint -- I particularly am humbled to the 18 Smithsonian, and I'm particularly humbled to -- you 19 know, for allowing us to -- call daily, and the 20 privilege -- represent to Emmett. 21 not have been here without you, and I just wanted 22 to -- without further ado, I'm -- I'm doing okay. And I'm hoping and I pray that this will I think we could www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 23 1 2 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you, Dr. Chamberlain. 3 We'll start by reviewing the candidate 4 designs for the obverse. 5 contain the inscriptions "Emmett Till and Mamie 6 Till-Mobley." 7 through the candidate designs, stopping at any 8 preferences identified by our liaisons. 9 The obverse designs all And as is customary, I will cycle We'll start with obverse 1, 2. This 10 design features Mamie Till-Mobley holding in Emmett 11 Till in her arms as they're both embraced by a pair of 12 wings. 13 liaison, but will need an edit if it is moved forward 14 to the Secretary to make Emmett Till's face rounder, a 15 bit fuller, as this depiction you see is a slightly 16 younger Emmett Till. This design is the preferred obverse of our 17 Design 3, 3A, 4, 4A, 5, 6. Moving on 18 to the reverse designs, which all feature the 19 inscription, "Let the world see." 20 this design displays a pile of books, representing 21 Mamie Till-Mobley's plea that her son's story be 22 remembered. Reverse 1, 2, 3, 4; In the background, a fist is raised in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 24 1 solidarity for the fight against racism, and a sign 2 reads, "Justice." 3 of Congress 2023." 4 The additional inscription is "Act This design is conceptually along the 5 lines of what the liaison would like to see, but 6 they'd like to include other imagery potentially. 7 example, Mamie Till-Mobley at a podium at the 8 courthouse, following the trial. 9 suggested edit from the liaison for this design 10 11 For A requested -- a includes removal of the raised fist. Reverse 5, 6; this design depicts a 12 representation of Emmett Till's casket, held in his 13 mother's hands for all to see. 14 inscription is "Emmett Till." 15 preference of the liaison. 16 17 18 The additional This is another reverse Design 7 and 7A. That concludes the candidate designs, Mr. Chairman. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, April. And 19 thank you, Dr. Chamberlain for your presence today and 20 for your comments. 21 22 Are there any technical or legal questions from the Committee about this program or www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 25 1 these designs for the Emmett Till and Mamie 2 Till-Mobley Congressional Gold Medal before we begin 3 our general discussion? 4 Dennis, I see your hand is raised. 5 MR. TUCKER: This is Dennis Tucker. I 6 do have some technical questions about some of the 7 designs and the relief. 8 if this is a good time to ask them or if I should wait 9 for my -- 10 11 12 13 And I don't know if that's -- THE CHAIRMAN: It is a technical question; correct? MR. TUCKER: They're technical, relating to the sculpt? 14 THE CHAIRMAN: 15 MR. TUCKER: Sure, go ahead. Specifically, I'm 16 wondering about -- if you look at reverse 3, for 17 example, and reverse 7 and 7A, I was wondering if Joe 18 Menna could maybe talk a bit about how the black 19 fields would be sculpted, if those are recessed, or if 20 they're polished, or maybe just give us some 21 explanation there? 22 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Dennis. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 26 1 Joe, would you like to respond to that? 2 MR. MENNA: 3 We don't do polish on Congressional Yes. This is Joseph Menna. 4 Gold Medals, but we do incuse fields. 5 No. 7, the darkest area would be the most recessed. 6 And as the gradient -- as the gradient becomes lighter 7 towards her shoulder, that relief would raise, so it 8 would be coincident with her neck and look natural. 9 10 For the other design with the star field, I believe? 11 MR. TUCKER: 12 MR. MENNA: 13 similar to hidden figures. 14 would be recessed. 15 polish. Yes. That equally -- just, What you see in black Incused, technically, but we don't 16 And -- thank you. 17 THE CHAIRMAN: 18 MR. TUCKER: 20 THE CHAIRMAN: 22 All right. Thank you, Joe. 19 21 In this case, Thank you. Any other questions or comments? Art? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 27 1 MR. BERNSTEIN: Yes. This is Arthur 2 Bernstein, with a quick technical question. 3 Till-Mobley, I noticed some of the designs have that 4 last name hyphenated, and some don't. 5 MS. STAFFORD: Yes, sir. The name, They would 6 need be hyphenated, anything that moved forward. 7 There's one or two candidate designs that are missing 8 that hyphen that would need to be addressed. 9 you. Thank 10 MR. BERNSTEIN: Thank you. 11 THE CHAIRMAN: 12 Any other questions or comments? 13 All right. All right. Thank you. So let us begin our 14 consideration. And I'd like to remind all of the 15 members of the Committee to please keep your comments 16 to five minutes or less, and do please identify 17 yourself prior to speaking. 18 Mike Moran, would you like to begin? 19 MR. MORAN: 20 This -- I'm here. Thank you, Peter. First of all -- 21 terrible feedback -- sending an e-mail. 22 perfectly, but remote people, it's -- it's bad. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I can hear Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 28 1 Now, going to the image of -- I'm -- 2 I'm fine with the family's choice of obverse -- I can 3 see it working. 4 would about -- 5 I also would like -- there's a -- we April, if you could -- down to about 6, 6 7, 8 -- it's coming up. Oh, right there. 7 I like that. 8 the next one, it's number -- I think 10 -- excellent. 9 I think it -- it -- style as well as there's a -- this I -- it's nice, pleasing. That's a -The -- that's 10 one is appealing. 11 portray that -- that expresses -- that drove her, her 12 determination -- gold medal down in Mississippi. 13 14 15 16 17 Difficult subject to portray -- So I'll be -- on that one as well. That's it. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mike. you have any comments about the reverses at all? MR. MORAN: Again, I liked -- it's 18 the -- the image in silhouette. 19 think that's a medal. 20 Did THE CHAIRMAN: That one. All right. I -- I Thank you. 21 I can't quite tell; you were breaking up a little. 22 Are you finished? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 29 1 MR. MORAN: 2 THE CHAIRMAN: 3 Yes, I am. All right. Thank you very much, Mike. 4 Art Bernstein, please. 5 MR. BERNSTEIN: This is Arthur 6 Bernstein. With regard to the obverses, design 7 obverse 1, I appreciated the elegance and the 8 simplicity of that design. 9 I can certainly support that, and I think it's Obverse 2, the preference, 10 perfect. 11 thought it made clever use of the photograph -- of the 12 photograph from the gravestone of Emmett Till. 13 also appreciated the use of the starburst design, 14 which related to the ring that helped identify him. 15 Obverse 3, I just wanted to comment that I And I With regard to the reverses, reverse 6 16 is my favorite because it embraces the phrasing of 17 Mamie Till-Mobley, and also incorporates the casket. 18 And I think reverse 4 is also fine, although I 19 personally am having a little trouble connecting the 20 books with the idea of remembering Emmett Till. 21 understand the explanation, but for me, I didn't make 22 that connection. Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 30 1 2 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, Art. 3 Dr. Harcourt Fuller, please. 4 DR. FULLER: 5 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll try to project my voice. 6 This is Dr. Harcourt Fuller. This is 7 a very difficult topic, you know, for -- for all of us 8 to address, but nonetheless, this is why this 9 committee is here to give our advice and opinions 10 about these designs, for the benefit of the public. 11 Welcome, Dr. Chamberlain. 12 I think I would like to go with obverse 13 2; let me start with that, please. 14 loving mother, just embracing her son, which I think 15 has universal appeal. 16 provides opportunity for empathy as well. 17 Here, you see a And it, you know, it gives -- And if we could also go to obverse 4. 18 What I see here again is a loving mother just 19 supporting her son, which I also think has universal 20 appeal, and elicits empathy as well, and 21 understanding. 22 And then, if I may go to the reverses; www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 31 1 let's go with reverse 2. While, you know, it's -- 2 these are all problematic aspects of our history and 3 culture, you know, lynching, inequality, et cetera, 4 oppression, I really like the design of peeling back 5 the curtain so that the world can see some of the 6 challenges that we have faced as a country, and those 7 that we still have to continue to address. Thank you. 8 THE CHAIRMAN: 9 Dr. Christopher Capozzola, if you 10 Thank you, Dr. Fuller. would, please. 11 DR. CAPOZZOLA: All right. This is 12 Christopher Capozzola. 13 thanking the artists for these designs, and Dr. 14 Chamberlain, and also Congress for this -- for this 15 overview medal. 16 I want to also begin by I do think that it's important, as I 17 was thinking about this portfolio, to think about 18 recognizing both the historic event of 1955, as well 19 as the generations-long legacy afterward, and trying 20 to figure out how to balance that in the design, and 21 to communicate that to public audiences who may know 22 little about what happens after 1955. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 32 1 For me, I found myself actually drawn 2 to -- to several of the obverses. 3 the family's preference, was very good. 4 and maybe explicitly religious. 5 the extent to which religion was important to Till and 6 Till-Mobley, and might want to hear from the -- from 7 the family about that and to help understand that. 8 9 I thought No. 2, It is deeply I'm not familiar with As a portrait, I did also really like No. 4. It very closely tracks photographic evidence 10 that -- for, that we have of -- of them. 11 another question is whether the imagery in the back 12 that inspired the artist would have also been 13 inspirational to -- to Till-Mobley, or whether that 14 would've -- that design would be something she would 15 have recognized, and then found meaningful. 16 And again, On the reverse, I will say that I 17 actually -- I didn't love any of them, in part because 18 I do think that it's important that a reverse may be 19 the place to do this, to highlight a legacy that is 20 not just about violence and oppression, but is also 21 about resilience and persistence. 22 And so, what I would like to put on the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 33 1 table is the idea of 02, but with maybe a different 2 set of words that would -- that would, you know, 3 reflect some of the work that Till-Mobley did over the 4 course of her career. 5 the family is interested, I would support those as 6 well. But of course, 04 and 06, if Thank you. 7 THE CHAIRMAN: 8 Annelisa Purdie, if you would, please. 9 MS. PURDIE: 10 Thank you, Chris. This is Annelisa Purdie. Also I want to start by thanking Dr. 11 Chamberlain for being here and for providing the input 12 on these designs. 13 venture, but also is very difficult, and we appreciate 14 that. 15 I know that this is an exciting In terms of the obverse designs, I also 16 loved 02 -- 002. I think that it gets to the crux of 17 what this story is about, in terms of a mother 18 fighting for the recognition of her son. 19 that out of all of this -- these designs, this one 20 exemplifies that their relationship was just as valid 21 and just as strong, and something that needed to be -- 22 to be fought for. And I think I love the way that the angel wings www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 34 1 framed both of them and the way that he's leaning into 2 her. 3 very inscrutable, almost as if they knew that they 4 would not see each other again, which, unfortunately, 5 they did not. 6 I'm also very fond of the expressions. It's My only recommendation for this, 7 design-wise, would possibly be to have a border around 8 the coin, so that the wings don't necessarily lean 9 into the edge, and keeps the focus on Mamie 10 Till-Mobley and her son. 11 Let's see. In terms of the reverse 12 designs, I also was not too enthused about many of 13 them, in large part because the reliefs do not 14 resemble Mamie Till-Mobley that much. 15 these designs, she looks much older than she actually 16 was. 17 In some of But the one out of these that I found 18 really compelling was 006, with the casket and the 19 hands. 20 with this event, in large part because they are 21 grounded in an horrific act of violence. 22 that this design, once again, gets to the point of a It's very difficult to express the emotions www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 But I think Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 35 1 mother's love and persistence to fight, and a 2 reminder, as well, that this was resulting in a death, 3 unfortunately, and that she was not going to allow 4 that death to stop her without the risk of the casket 5 being open. 6 I know that there were some concerns on 7 the part of the family about representing an open 8 casket on any of the coin designs, which I completely 9 agree with. 10 But of all the reverse designs, this is the one that stood out to me the most. Thank you. 11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Annelisa. 12 Donald Scarinci, if you would, please. 13 MR. SCARINCI: So I'm going to try to 14 do this in five minutes. And even though Dr. Brown is 15 here, he -- Peter remains unknown. 16 is out -- I think the charge 17 MS. WARREN: Just speak loud. 18 MR. SCARINCI: 19 So even though Dr. Brown is not here to 20 gavel me down at the end of my five minutes, this is a 21 very important coin, and -- or, a medal. 22 very important because, you know, in part, because I'll speak loud. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And it's Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 36 1 it's a recognition of Congress. 2 So, Act of Congress 2023, needs to be 3 in this medal. 4 one. 5 Chamberlain because, you know, I always support the -- 6 when it comes to the Congressional Gold Medals, part 7 of what's interesting about collecting the series of 8 congressional gold medals in bronze is the fact that, 9 you know, the living descendants of these people, you 10 know, who made history, are having input into -- into 11 the designs. 12 I mean, it needs to be there, number Number two, I really would love to persuade Dr. But having said that, I really want to 13 try to talk you out of 02. 14 brings, you know, the -- the angel wings just bring a 15 religious component into -- into a medal that is 16 important to all people. 17 Americans who may not be, you know -- you know, of -- 18 of a Christian -- necessarily a Christian persuasion. 19 And you know, and -- and I wouldn't want the message 20 to be diluted with so blatant of a -- of illusion with 21 wings, the crucifix on her neck. 22 It's -- it's just -- it And -- and important to You know, and not that that's wrong, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 37 1 but in this instance, the message is too important. 2 And the message, you know, that we want the world to 3 see, is -- is really stated, you know, and it's so 4 relevant today. 5 that is the message. 6 talking about. 7 just think that, you know, while there are some, you 8 know, the obverse designs all fall short to me, but 9 the reverse designs are -- maybe we could have an 10 And it's stated in reverse 2. And I mean, this is what we're And -- and, you know, and -- and I obverse and a reverse from the reverse designs. 11 For example, I particularly like 2 as a 12 reverse, and -- and I like a variation -- I just love 13 the, you know, the 7 reverse, with the "Let the world 14 see." 15 which we're just not going to do. 16 removing the "let the world see here," putting the 17 Congressional -- Act of Congress there instead. 18 That requires, just designing by committee, It requires But if we want to go, you know, with an 19 obverse and a reverse, you know, in obverse 6, the -- 20 if we put Act of Congress on the -- on the edge, and 21 just take away some of that negative space by doing 22 that, because it is important. And then, go with www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 38 1 reverse 2 at, you know -- you know, or even reverse 3. 2 You know, I think -- I think it would make a nicer 3 design. 4 I don't really like -- I don't really 5 like, on the reverse choice, for Dr. Chamberlain's 6 reverse choice, I don't really, you know, like the 7 books, and the -- I don't know what that's saying, you 8 know, really. 9 fist out, but I just don't think the reverse works. 10 You know, I'm glad you want to take the So even if you wanted to keep obverse 11 2, I think there are better reverse choices than 12 reverse 4. 13 very strong designs, and -- and, you know, and I think 14 it would make a more meaningful and a more significant 15 statement as -- as a medal. 16 In fact, I think the reverse choices are So I just want to say that. And as an 17 aside to the members, to the CCAC members, I think, 18 you know, as we do this portfolio, we were going to 19 say this at the beginning, but I think as we review 20 this series for the next two days, we really should be 21 using the merit -- the merit section. 22 good -- this is -- it helps the artists -- it helps www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 This is a Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 39 1 Joe, first of all. 2 to take the temperature of how we feel about that, you 3 know, better than the gavel. 4 It certainly helps Joe Menna get Anyway, so I encourage you to use the 5 merit liberally so that Joe can see the ones that 6 really are appealing to us. Anyway -- 7 THE CHAIRMAN: 8 Harcourt, I saw that your hand was 9 10 11 12 raised. Thank you. Is this a question that can wait until after, or did you want to -DR. FULLER: It -- it could, possibly. I -- I had follow-ups, but -- but I -- 13 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. 14 Dennis Tucker, if you would, please. 15 MR. TUCKER: 16 In order to -- in order to keep to my Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 17 five minutes, I'm going to read from my notes, so I 18 apologize for that. 19 I would like to start by thanking and 20 recognizing Dr. Chamberlain. She was the first black 21 woman combat intelligence pilot in the United States 22 Army, president of the Los Angeles chapter of the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 40 1 Tuskegee Airmen, and a senior advisor for Sisters of 2 the Skies. 3 in this very important project. 4 So it's an honor to have your involvement Thank you. Let me start by saying that medallic 5 art, in its most successful form, brings an emotional 6 response to its viewer. 7 a medal for Emmett Till and his mother could invoke. 8 Outrage and anger at his murder, a righteousness in 9 the Civil Rights progress that followed, and the There are many feelings that 10 findings laid out in the public law that authorizes 11 this medal, which I encourage everyone to read if you 12 haven't. 13 We see two themes. One, the brutality, 14 violence, and injustice of Emmett Till's murder; and 15 two, the love, strength, and courage of Mamie 16 Till-Mobley. 17 a sense of loving comfort and peace. 18 depth of emotion and human connection. 19 mother and son facing each other and hugging, but both 20 are embraced by angelic wings. 21 cross shows spiritual salvation. 22 Obverse 2 is the only design that gives It has a unique Not only are The presence of the Donald, I understand what you're saying www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 41 1 about inclusion, but I feel -- and perhaps Dr. 2 Chamberlain can talk to this -- speak to this subject, 3 but to me, it seems like an important and crucial part 4 of the design. 5 Most of the other obverses are 6 traditional portraiture. Obverse 6 gets close to the 7 emotion of obverse 2, but it's tied to a weaker 8 design, in my opinion, for the reverse. 9 design that best matches obverse 2's quiet, dignified The reverse 10 sense of emotion, is reverse 3. 11 his mother are disconnected physically by his death, 12 but they remain connected spiritually. 13 this design is quiet, it captures Mamie Till-Mobley's 14 strength and courage, not with raised fists or radio 15 microphones, but with the statement, "Let the world 16 see." 17 Here, Emmett Till and Even though This carries the anger, the outrage, 18 the moral resolve. It's a message Mamie Till-Mobley 19 commanded, despite suffering something no parent 20 should ever suffer. 21 Our horror and our grief are shown by her covering her 22 face, but we're not let off the hook. And we suffered this as a nation. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 The artist Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 42 1 connects Emmett to the message, "Let the world see," 2 by the repetition of sunken relief silhouette, as Joe 3 described, and the starry night occupying Emmett's 4 form, and emphasizing the text. 5 I like the combination of obverse 2 and 6 reverse 3 because while this combination doesn't 7 ignore the sadness and horror of Emmett's murder, it 8 focuses on love, strength, courage, and hope in the 9 face of injustice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 10 THE CHAIRMAN: 11 John Saunders, if you would, please. 12 MR. SAUNDERS: 13 Thank you, Dennis. Hi, this is John Saunders. 14 In terms of the obverses line, Harcourt 15 kind of stole my thunder, which I agree with him 16 completely. 17 for reasons that people have said already. 18 loving. 19 and murdered in such a foul way as this, it not only 20 obviously affects them, it affects the people around 21 them, who they care about. 22 time we lose any person, we -- it's a loss for society I was drawn to two designs only; design 2 It shows It shows also that when someone gets killed And -- and, you know, any www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 43 1 in general, and for everyone who cares. 2 I also liked design 4 very, very much. 3 Particularly, I like the first of the two designs 4 there; either one would be okay. 5 of the hat. 6 look good. 7 when this happens. 8 boys wore hats too. 9 that is -- was very appealing to me. I like the inclusion It kind of -- I think it makes Emmett I also think it kind of shows the time It's 1950s when men wore hats and So -- and the artistic design of So that's 10 probably my first choice with design 2 as being 11 almost -- well, both great; pretty good designs 12 overall. 13 In terms of reverse, on an artistic 14 basis, I liked 3 best. I think that was -- was very 15 good art. 16 obverse shows the mother and child and reverse shows 17 mother and child, which is not necessarily bad, but 18 it's kind of repetitive. My -- my one thought is -- it's -- the 19 If you kick out 03 because of that, 02 20 would be my favorite next, again, following what 21 Harcourt said. 22 like the raised fist in 4, 'cause hopefully when we So those were two. I -- I did not www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 44 1 face the terrible things that have been done, terrible 2 injustices like this, it's a time of healing rather 3 than a time of further conflict. 4 like something that's, you know, anti-healing. 5 don't know if that's the right way of saying it or 6 not, but I did not like that. 7 And I -- I don't But I liked the art in 03, and I like 8 02, 'cause then it goes with the obverse design 9 choices well. 10 11 I THE CHAIRMAN: John, thank you very much. 12 Kellen, if you would, please. 13 MR. HOARD: 14 This is Kellen Hoard. Thank you. For the obverse, 15 I was really drawn to 4 as well. I, you know -- when 16 I was home for spring break and I saw my mother, you 17 know, she and I -- well, anyway, what happened was she 18 and I happened to stand in this exact position, so I 19 was very much just thinking of -- of my mother, as I 20 saw this, especially as -- as her son. 21 across as very comforting and very warm. 22 the warmth of their relationship. And it came It showed They're together; www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 45 1 they are in many ways touching each other emotionally 2 and physically. 3 I was really quite drawn to that. You guys are persuading me also a 4 little bit on obverse 2 for the same reasons. I think 5 it's really -- we should show the warmth on the 6 obverse. 7 to be, kind of, the first impression -- 4 is kind of 8 the preference there. I think that's -- that's an important thing 9 On the reverse, you know, my 10 inclination, what distinguished her was that she 11 didn't, you know, that she took action, that she was 12 strong in the face of tragedy, that she -- there were 13 countless mothers, I think, like her, who experienced 14 injustice and tragedy throughout this period and 15 continuing. 16 was the fact that she took the world and showed that 17 strength and bravery. 18 work and her action. 19 And I think that what differentiated her So I was inclined to show her And that led me to 1 in the first 20 place, as showing her as this, kind of, powerful, 21 action-oriented person, showing the people that she 22 impacted. Having, kind of, the words really www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 46 1 emphasized there. 2 telling and fitting with what I was looking for. 3 I thought that was really quite But then, I saw also 6. And for me, 6, 4 you know, it doesn't show her quite as well, but it 5 was a striking design that went so far beyond anything 6 even articulable. 7 speaking to, made me quite emotional. 8 was her continuing to encourage the world to see, you 9 know, the injustice that had been done, holding out 10 But which made me, like that I'm I thought it her hands in that way. 11 And I think for the public when they 12 see this, that's going to be the one that they don't 13 have to think about, they can just feel quite 14 powerfully. 15 leaning that direction there. 16 upon the obverse and then to have her continuing 17 offering those lessons in justice in the reverse was 18 really quite compelling to me. 19 20 21 22 And so, I think, you know, I'm kind of THE CHAIRMAN: So to show the warmth So thank you. All right, Kellen. Thank you very much. For myself, I also was drawn to obverse No. 2, just again, for many of the reasons that other www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 47 1 members of the Committee have expressed; the warmth, 2 the loving embrace, and so forth. 3 that not -- none of the reverses really spoke to me. 4 I -- I didn't really find any of them particularly 5 compelling or engaging in a way. 6 I do have to admit I did, however, really like the 7 combination of obverse 6 and reverse 7, which as a -- 8 from a design concept, I find the elegance and 9 simplicity of this obverse reverse combination really 10 quite engaging, although the obverse portrait of 11 Emmett, I think, leaves a lot to be desired. 12 I will leave it at that since I think 13 we do have a little bit of discussion. 14 get to that, I would like to ask Dr. Chamberlain if 15 she could address the question that was raised by Dr. 16 Capozzola about the importance for religion to the 17 family, and to the concept of the design of this 18 medal. 19 Yeah, go ahead, please. 20 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: 21 22 But before we Does that mean I speak? THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, please, if you www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 48 1 would. 2 MS. WARREN: And if -- I'm sorry, Dr. 3 Chamberlain, if you could get closer to the mic, that 4 would be helpful. 5 6 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: How about that? 8 MS. WARREN: 10 A little better, just if you could lean closer to the computer, that would help. 11 12 Let me try to turn it up. 7 9 Okay. Thank you. DR. CHAMBERLAIN: Okay, I'll try and do this. 13 MS. WARREN: Good. 14 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: Okay. So thank you 15 all very, very much for all of the recommendations. 16 They say when you want something said send a poet, but 17 when you want something done, you send an Army 18 helicopter pilot. 19 So first of all, we come from a very 20 religious family. The reflections that you do see are 21 from us as a family, as a whole. 22 too, the feelings takes on your -- which this, to me, We come from an age www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 49 1 is a coinage committee of advisors -- "In God We 2 Trust." 3 it. Of course, maybe that lost -- I'm talking to 4 I am grateful for all of the comments 5 that are made, and I ask -- consideration -- as we 6 started this journey with Alvin Sykes in 2015, this is 7 my third Congressional Gold Medal, as I also helped on 8 the -- Tuskegee Airmen Gold Medal -- 9 10 MS. WARREN: connection. 11 12 It's her internet THE CHAIRMAN: I know. Can she pause maybe? 13 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: But this is the first 14 time as the sole congressional liaison. 15 the struggle getting this through a Congress in which 16 we have. 17 little -- little helicopter pilot, with three -- other 18 people calling every day, showing up at the Capitol, 19 the impossible beginning. 20 It was quite But a little team of just four of us, a And it was done. Now, we're at this juncture, and who 21 helped it -- bless her, is Erica Gordon, who was there 22 along with her mother Ollie, who, when we had no one www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 50 1 who allowed us, Ollie Gordon stepped up and helped, 2 'cause she's part of this team. 3 because of the loss of my cousin, Wheeler Parker, 4 accepting on behalf of -- Congression, I request that 5 she be there as a -- help -- us four. 6 Ollie, who -- and So as a team, we looked at all of every 7 design. We thank every artist. Each of them were 8 beautiful. 9 because what's going on now with all that is -- seems It was a -- I wear the T-shirt of Emmett 10 like we're the only ones who are actually -- of 11 spirit. 12 THE CHAIRMAN: 13 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: 14 15 Dr. Chamberlain -So we looked at each and every one. THE CHAIRMAN: Dr. Chamberlain, I'm 16 sorry to interrupt, but we're having a lot of 17 difficulty with the audio. 18 important for us to hear, but we're only hearing about 19 every other word at the moment, unfortunately. 20 what I would suggest is that Megan Sullivan call you 21 on her cell phone, and we can then patch that into the 22 audio so we can actually hear each and every one of And your words are very www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 51 1 your words, which all of us would very much to hear. 2 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: 3 THE CHAIRMAN: 4 give us a minute, we will -- 5 6 MS. WARREN: So if you could just Ask her to mute her computer. 7 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: 8 THE CHAIRMAN: 9 Thank you. And -- yeah. If at the same time, you can mute your computer, so there won't 10 be interference with that. 11 running just momentarily. 12 MS. SULLIVAN: 13 her camera, that might help. 14 15 Thank you. MS. WARREN: We will have that up and Also if she turns off Well, Mike was having the same issue. 16 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: 17 MS. SULLIVAN: 18 MS. WARREN: 19 MS. SULLIVAN: 20 I'm going to put you on speaker on the 21 22 microphone. Hello? Okay. Mute your -- I'm muting her. Okay. Hold on just a sec. MS. WARREN: Okay, let's give it a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 52 1 shot. 2 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: 3 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 4 How about now? Better than before, but not very good. 5 MS. SULLIVAN: Yeah, can you just turn 6 the sound -- well, I don't know if she's able to hear 7 well enough. 8 Try that. 9 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: 10 11 MS. SULLIVAN: Can you hear us? I mean, can you speak? 12 13 Is that better? DR. CHAMBERLAIN: I can hear you perfectly. 14 MS. SULLIVAN: Okay. 15 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay, I think that's 16 better. Let's -- go ahead. 17 18 19 20 You guys -- MR. WEINMAN: Ask her to speak close to the phone. MS. SULLIVAN: Yeah, just speak as closely to the phone as you can. 21 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: 22 MS. SULLIVAN: Okay, how about that? Perfect. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 53 1 MR. WEINMAN: Good. 2 MS. SULLIVAN: 3 MS. WARREN: 4 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: 5 MS. WARREN: 6 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: -- we start? Yeah, go ahead. Okay. Are we ready? Okay. So that's Yes. 7 why -- how much did you all hear me -- you heard me 8 speak about Ollie Gordon? 9 Mamie. Ollie actually lived with Her features -- that's why we looked at each 10 and every one. We took three to four weeks going over 11 it thoroughly, and we came up with the No. 2. 12 there's a reason why. 13 If you could put No. 2 back up? 14 MS. SULLIVAN: 15 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: 16 MS. SULLIVAN: 21 22 Okay. I don't see It's up on our end. I'm not sure why it's not showing up. 19 20 Okay. it. 17 18 And DR. CHAMBERLAIN: up. Okay. It just came Thank you. First, with that, we were requesting that Emmett's full name be on there, not just Emmett www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 54 1 Till, but his full name. Second is because this 2 reflects who Mamie was. 3 she was. 4 requesting with Emmett, that's his childhood picture. 5 We have requested that his face be fuller to what he 6 was during the time of his death, which is a much 7 fuller face. 8 because we are a religious family, and it reflects who 9 we are, and everything that she went through and what This reflects strongly who The actual picture that's there that we're The reason why we chose the wings 10 Emmett went through. And also, we considered how it 11 would look with gold, golden wings, reflective of who, 12 and actually what happened with him, and the healing 13 of America towards what they did to my cousin. 14 Is everybody with me so far? 15 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 16 MS. WARREN: Yes, ma'am. One second. Dr. 17 Chamberlain, can you mute your computer, your sound? 18 Because I think this -- our -- we're circling back. 19 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: 20 MS. WARREN: 21 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: 22 Hold on one second. Thank you. Okay, I -- I've muted the mic. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 55 1 MS. WARREN: 2 we're good. 3 but -- 4 feedback. 6 meeting. 7 9 10 11 12 13 I think Well, you can still hear -- feedback, DR. CHAMBERLAIN: 5 8 There we go. Yeah, there's a The feedback's been there the whole MS. SULLIVAN: It's okay. We can hear you, ma'am. DR. CHAMBERLAIN: Okay, thank you. Does anybody have any questions so far for why 02 was selected? THE CHAIRMAN: No, I think you've answered the questions very well. So -- 14 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: In terms of the rear, 15 two were -- two were discussed. 16 those were her hands in the reflection of the coffin. 17 So "Let the World See" was changed to "Nation," and it 18 was much more soft, versus an in your face type thing. 19 And it reflected who she was as a strong woman, who 20 lost a child, and it also reflected each and every one 21 of us as family. 22 suffered as well. That's R6, because And collectively, a lot of us has And we thank the grateful nation www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 56 1 for even -- for doing this, and getting this done. 2 And we also looked at the back, how -- 3 how that would look in gold, as well. 4 reflected of a more soft -- softer tone. 5 have any questions of me with that? 6 THE CHAIRMAN: And it Does anybody Yes, we do have a 7 question from Dennis Tucker, if -- Dennis, if you'd 8 like to go ahead. 9 MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Dr. 10 Chamberlain. Can you expand a bit on what you were 11 saying about Emmett Till's full name? 12 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: 13 MR. TUCKER: 14 15 16 You mentioned extending the wording to include his full name? DR. CHAMBERLAIN: MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 18 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: 20 21 22 His full name, yes. You see how it just says, "Emmett Till"? 17 19 Yes. Yes. We recommended to have his full name. MS. STAFFORD: So we would add his middle name, Louis. MR. TUCKER: Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 57 1 MS. STAFFORD: Apologies for 3 THE CHAIRMAN: Dennis, could you -- 4 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: 2 neglecting -- The other one we 5 looked at was -- I believe it was R4. We did look at 6 that and we had a discussion, but we did recommend 7 that the power sign not be there because that 8 reflected the 1960s, and not the 1950s. 9 when we asked to possibly have Mamie at the podium, And this is 10 with her as she did down in Sumner, when she was there 11 during the trial. 12 That's one. The other thing was the Act of Congress 13 2023, and the books. 14 we've come as a nation. 15 family feels very strongly about. 16 17 18 And the books suggest of how far So those are the two that the And hold on, let me see if I forgot anything else. I think I got it all. THE CHAIRMAN: All right, Dr. 19 Chamberlain, thank you very much. And I have to say 20 that I really do appreciate, as I'm sure the rest of 21 the Committee does, the very long and hard journey 22 that bringing this medal to completion has been. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 58 1 2 Are there any further questions from members of the Committee? 3 4 Harcourt, I believe you had a question earlier? 5 6 DR. FULLER: May I? I promise I'll be as brief as possible. 7 THE CHAIRMAN: Please. 8 DR. FULLER: 9 I just wanted, if I may -- this is Yeah, thanks. 10 Harcourt Fuller. 11 some of the discussions if I may. 12 reemphasize, I think that the spiritual aspect, I 13 think is very important. 14 family is spiritual, is religious, and I think that it 15 is very important to highlight that for, you know, in 16 commemorating Emmett Till and Mamie Till-Mobley. 17 don't think it takes away anything necessarily, from 18 it. 19 I wanted -- I wanted to follow up on Just to As Dr. Chamberlain said, the I And then, also, I just very quickly, if 20 I may go to reverse -- what is that, reverse 2, R2. 21 What I -- if I may, what I would like to suggest is 22 that we replace those words with more aspirational www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 59 1 words, some of which have already been mentioned here 2 today. 3 hope, justice. 4 some by Dennis, et cetera. 5 that those words are more inclusive and show where we 6 would like to go as a nation. Love, strength, courage, peace, resilience, 7 8 Because I think that -- So that's -- those are my thoughts. Thank you. 9 10 All those words have been mentioned, THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, Harcourt. 11 What I would suggest is that we will 12 score the candidate obverse reverse designs first, and 13 then we can see where we are -- 14 I'm sorry? 15 MS. WARREN: 16 Dr. Chamberlain has her hand up. 17 THE CHAIRMAN: 18 Dr. Chamberlain, if you would, please. 19 20 21 22 Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't see your hand. THR REPORTER: microphone, please. And, Mr. van Alfen, the Microphone, please. DR. CHAMBERLAIN: I do have to put this www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 60 1 in. I really want the Committee to know that Mamie 2 worked for Willa Brown and Cornelius Coffey. 3 worked for them from 1941 to 1943. 4 be the one to create the Tuskegee Airmen. 5 the first 200 in Harlem, New York. 6 teenager working with them. 7 Airman ranger who accepted Emmett's body. 8 9 She Willa Brown would She trained Mamie was the It was the Tuskegee Willa Brown was my mentor until her death. So the connection with the airmen is very 10 serious with our family as well. So I don't know if 11 you all knew that connection, but now you know it, and 12 I had to get that in too. 13 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 14 THE CHAIRMAN: 15 16 17 18 Thank you. Sergeant -- Sergeant Brown? DR. CHAMBERLAIN: So in a second, I'd -- that coin would be right now. THE CHAIRMAN: Dr. Chamberlain, I 19 really do appreciate you highlighting that connection. 20 As a aviation enthusiast myself, I -- I really find 21 that quite important and fascinating. 22 for highlighting that. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So thank you Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 61 1 2 Are there any additional comments from the Mint, Joe Menna, and Mike Costello? 3 All right. Hearing none -- 4 MR. MENNA: No, thank you. 5 THE CHAIRMAN: 6 7 And before we score, Greg would like to make a comment about the scoring. MR. WEINMAN: Thank you. You may have 8 noticed, and this is for some of the newer members as 9 well, there is a column on your score sheet that says, 10 "merit," and it has a number of circles on it. 11 column has been there for some time, however, I'd like 12 to emphasize it right now and ask you to take it a 13 little more seriously, and be sure to fill it out. 14 That Over -- I've noticed as I have 15 complied the score sheets that some members give it a 16 great deal of thought; other members have seen it as 17 something more superfluous. 18 more important right now than it has been in the past. 19 It's not, and it is even As many of you know, many of these 20 designs are produced by artists as part of our 21 artistic infusion program. That is a program that's 22 been around for some time. They are contract artists; www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 62 1 they're awarded contracts and given task orders for 2 each program that comes up. 3 option years on them. 4 mint does an evaluation and makes a determination as 5 to who stays with the program. 6 program, so some artists cycle in, artists cycle out. 7 Their contracts have That means that each year, the It is an infusion Your scores, your merit scores are 8 going to be playing a more significant role as a data 9 point in determining which artists' options are 10 exercised for the coming year. 11 you score this, as you do your zero through 3 score, 12 also take seriously and check the merit box of those 13 designs that you think are particularly worthy from an 14 artistic or from any -- the criteria that you think, 15 "this is as an artist I'd like to see stay in the 16 program." 17 18 And so, I ask you as Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: Great. Thank you very much. 19 All right. So the Committee will now 20 score the obverse and reverse candidate designs for 21 the Emmett Till and Mamie Till-Mobley Congressional 22 Gold Medal. All of you should have your score sheets www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 63 1 in front of you. 2 yours electronically. 3 And, Mike, you should've received When you are done, please return them 4 to CCAC Counsel, Greg Weinman, who will tally the 5 scores and will present the results. 6 a five-minute break, and be back at 11:20. 7 (Off the record.) 8 THE CHAIRMAN: 9 And we will take Thank you. Okay, we are back. Before I turn it over to Greg, I just want to 10 apologize to Dr. Chamberlain as well as to our virtual 11 audience for the technical difficulties that we are 12 having today. 13 frustrating for you, but the team is doing its best to 14 try to resolve the problems that we are having. 15 So I now recognize Greg Weinman, I know that this is, I'm sure, very 16 counsel to the CCAC, to present the results from the 17 scoring sheets. 18 So, Greg, if you would, please. 19 MR. WEINMAN: 20 Okay. 21 22 Yes, this is -- There's feedback if I do this, so I'm going to speak loudly. Out of the possible 30 points, design www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 64 1 obverse 1 received four. Obverse 2 received 22, 2 making it the high-scoring design. 3 four. 4 received 14 points. 5 received one, and obverse 6 received six. 6 Moving on to the reverses. Obverse 3 received Obverse 3A received one point. Obverse 4 Obverse 4A received seven, 5 Reverse 1 7 received seven points. 8 Reverse 3 received 19 points; that is the high-scoring 9 design. Reverse 4 received six. 10 zero. 11 received three. 12 Reverse 2 received ten points. Reverse 5 received Reverse 6 received 17, so close. And reverse 7 Reverse 7A received one. Once again, the high-scoring designs 13 were obverse 2, with 22 points, and reverse 3, with 19 14 points. 15 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you, 16 Greg. Before we have a discussion or any further 17 debate about this, I would like to remind all of us 18 that as April mentioned at the beginning of our review 19 of this portfolio, we are not necessarily needing to 20 make a recommendation to the Secretary today, but 21 rather to help the process further along. 22 said, are there any motions or discussions? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So that Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 65 1 2 Donald, I see your hand immediately raised, so -- 3 MR. SCARINCI: I think -- I think it's 4 very important that we have "Act of Congress 2023" on 5 this medal. So I would make a motion -- 6 THE REPORTER: Sorry, the microphone. 7 MR. SCARINCI: I slipped. 8 I think it's very, very important that 9 we include the language, "Act of Congress 2023" on 10 this medal somewhere. So I'd like to make a motion 11 that -- that Joe Menna's team, you know, insert that 12 in an appropriate place, either on the obverse or the 13 reverse. 14 THE CHAIRMAN: 15 Donald? Okay. A second? Dennis has seconded, sorry. 16 And is there any further discussion or debate about 17 that? 18 19 All right. Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion, indicate by saying "aye." 20 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: Aye. 21 THE CHAIRMAN: 22 All right, the motion carries. Are there any opposed? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Any Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 66 1 other further discussion? 2 John. 3 MR. SAUNDERS: 4 you know, the liaison's -- 5 6 Saunders. 9 John, if you could wait MR. SAUNDERS: Hi, this is John The liaison's choice of reverse 4 was -MS. WARREN: 10 11 THE CHAIRMAN: just a moment? 7 8 A little discussion on, Don't put them too close. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It's not going to work. 12 THE CHAIRMAN: 13 MS. WARREN: 14 MR. SAUNDERS: Oh. It's this one. The liaison's choice of 15 4 was -- comments about redesign or placement of the 16 raised hand by perhaps a podium with speech being 17 given from the podium. 18 it was, but I might be able to vote for 4 as 19 redesigned. I couldn't vote for 4 the way 20 The other thing is our second choice, 21 17, which is a comment I neglected to make the first 22 time was -- when I looked at that, I didn't recognize www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 67 1 it as a casket until after I read that it was a 2 casket. 3 something like that. 4 assume it's because he was a -- a young man, it was 5 shaped that way, and it was just different than what I 6 was expecting. 7 recognize that as a casket, particularly, looking at 8 it. 9 It looked almost like a victory cup or To me, it's a -- you know, I I'm not sure that the public would And again, I felt that the -- there 10 were two really strong obverse designs. 11 seemed to think the same, but I'm not 100 percent 12 happy with any of the reverse designs. 13 the extent that we get some emphasis here, I would 14 suggest that we -- we -- say -- say that. 15 really happy with obverse design, and we're more 16 wishy-washy around the reverse design. 17 18 THE CHAIRMAN: 21 22 So I mean, to We're Yeah, thank you. 19 20 All right. The committee Kellen, I believe your hand was raised first. MR. HOARD: this is Kellen Hoard. Yeah, just -- I want -- I just wanted to speak to the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 68 1 high scores there. 2 pretty clear high score. 3 some margin there, and that we should maybe make a 4 motion, relevant to obverse 2. 5 I think obverse 2, this was a It seemed like there was But for the reverses, you know, I 6 thought 3 and 6 were pretty close. 7 encourage the Committee to recommend, or at least, you 8 know, share with the Mint, if we're not going to make 9 a full recommendation, 6 over 3, for the reverses. 10 And I would And part of that for me is the reason 11 that we're giving this medal in the first place, is 12 because what she did -- what was different about, and 13 how powerful about what Mamie did was that she 14 wasn't -- that she took action, that she, you know, 15 went out across the country, encouraging the world to 16 see. 17 And to me, 3 does not represent that. 18 To me, 3, you know, even though it's an ideal artistic 19 merit, I think it shows -- it doesn't show the action 20 that she undertook. 21 differentiated her or the reason we're celebrating 22 her. It doesn't show what It absolutely is emotional, but the reason that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 69 1 we're celebrating and commemorating her is because of 2 the action she took. 3 know, felt these emotions that the hundreds or 4 thousands of women and mothers have felt over the 5 course of American history, through similar tragedies. It wasn't just that she, you 6 So I think, you know, part of what so 7 struck me about 6 is that it does both literally and 8 metaphorically show the -- the action that has 9 instilled that emotional impact; the hands are very 10 compelling. And to me, because 3 and 6 were close, I 11 would be inclined for us to move towards 6 over 3. 12 13 THE CHAIRMAN: a motion to -- 14 15 Are you, in fact, making MR. HOARD: Well, let's have further discussion. 16 THE CHAIRMAN: 17 Dennis, I believe your hand was raised. 18 MR. TUCKER: 19 20 Okay. All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, this is Dennis Tucker. I agree with John. I think reverse 6 21 does not look like a casket to me. It looks like it 22 could be a plate on a -- a plate on a memorial, or -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 70 1 or something. 2 casket. 3 But when I look at that, I don't think The hands, I think, need more 4 explanation than the viewer is given, just from the -- 5 the visual aspect. 6 and physical connection that we see in reverse 3. 7 She's obviously stricken with grief here. 8 she's devastated. 9 "Let the world see," as I said before, they -- they I -- I really do prefer emotional And yet, those words in reverse 3, 10 don't let us off the hook. 11 outrage. 12 Emmett Till's murder. 13 She's -- They -- they express the They express everything disgusting about And what I might recommend is that we, 14 as -- as Kellen said, we recommend the two high vote 15 getters, obverse 2 and reverse 3, making it clear to 16 the Secretary that of this portfolio, these are the 17 candidates that we preferred. 18 Chamberlain, and the family, and the Mint feels 19 it's -- it's proper to go back to the drawing board, 20 maybe we could see -- and if there's time, maybe we 21 could see another round -- round of designs that -- 22 that use this discussion to, kind of, give us a round However, if -- if Dr. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 71 1 2 two. THE CHAIRMAN: My understanding -- and, 3 April, you can correct me if I'm wrong -- that we will 4 be able to see further candidate reverse designs or 5 obverse designs at a later date if -- if this is -- 6 MS. STAFFORD: We -- we are prepared 7 to -- to follow the recommendations that we receive 8 from both the CCAC, as well as CFA, and after we speak 9 with family representative about the incoming input. 10 11 12 13 14 15 So right now, we're just collecting data. So any way you could present the feedback for those potential paths would be helpful. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you very much, April. And again, it doesn't sound like we 16 need to make a recommendation to the Secretary today, 17 but just have further comments. 18 Kellen, your hand again was raised? 19 MR. HOARD: Yeah. I was just going to 20 say, given the number of comments about, you know, 21 dissatisfaction with -- to the reverse portfolios, and 22 that we don't have to make a recommendation, could we www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 72 1 move that the Mint look at, revise, add Act of 2 Congress to, et cetera, obverse 2, reverse 3, reverse 3 6, which was the recommendation of the liaison on both 4 2 and 6? 5 the family on those, and then come back to us? And that they have further discussions with 6 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, I believe we've 7 already had a motion to include Act of Congress 8 description somewhere on the medal -- 9 10 MR. HOARD: Oh, yeah. I -- it would encompass -- 11 THE CHAIRMAN: 12 MR. HOARD: -- but that -- right. -- estimate for those three 13 designs, and go speak further with family, confirm 14 that that was what the family's -- 15 16 17 THE CHAIRMAN: So your motion would be what exactly? MR. HOARD: Not to make a formal 18 recommendation, but to ask the Mint to focus on those 19 three designs, as they bring them back to us, and -- 20 21 22 THE CHAIRMAN: the motion for that. I don't believe we need We can -- MR. WEINMAN: I'm sorry. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I apologize. Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 73 1 What were you -- 2 THE CHAIRMAN: No, I was just saying I 3 don't believe we need to make a motion, necessarily, 4 to just leave the discussion as-is, and move forward, 5 so -- 6 7 MR. WEINMAN: No. And the discussion is what it is. 8 THE CHAIRMAN: 9 MR. WEINMAN: Yeah. We -- and I -- I'm -- 10 just to confirm that a letter from CCAC to the 11 Secretary will still be needed from this meeting -- 12 THE CHAIRMAN: 13 MR. WEINMAN: 14 Of course. -- whatever the recommendations are. 15 THE CHAIRMAN: 16 MS. WARREN: All right. Dr. -- I'm sorry -- 17 Chairman? This is Jennifer Warren. 18 Chamberlain has her hand up, so -- 19 THE CHAIRMAN: 20 MS. WARREN: 21 22 We have -- Dr. Okay. -- going to grab her real quick. THE CHAIRMAN: Fine. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 74 1 2 John, before we get to you, then we'll hear Dr. Chamberlain. 3 Dr. Chamberlain, if you would, please. 4 DR. CHAMBERLAIN: 5 In terms of number 3, Mamie was a very Yes, sir. 6 active woman. 7 cry. 8 just don't want to be looked at, and -- we're very -- 9 we're very much against -- she was not a crier. 10 She was not one to sit in a chair and And that's why number 3, I know the effort, but She was very active. 11 MR. SAUNDERS: That's a good point. 12 THE CHAIRMAN: Now, thank you very much 13 for that insight; very much appreciated. 14 John, I believe your hand was raised? 15 MR. SAUNDERS: Yes. I -- make a motion 16 that it's proper to do so -- John Saunders here. 17 That we recommend the adoption of 18 design 2 on the obverse, and that we ask for further 19 input on reverse. 20 further end -- I don't think we should restrict it to 21 the two high vote getters. 22 No. 4, which is, you know, the preferred of the And I don't think that on the Again, I would like to see www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 75 1 liaison, redesigned with some of the suggestions the 2 liaison has given. 3 reverse designs -- more varieties in reverse designs, 4 in general, rather than restrict it there. 5 6 And just -- we really -- more But I would -- I would make them do -we have -- the obverse design. 7 THE CHAIRMAN: 8 So John's motion then, would be to 9 Okay. recommend obverse design 2, but at this time make no 10 recommendation for a reverse design, and await further 11 candidate designs from the Office of Design 12 Management. Is that correct? 13 John, is that your motion? 14 MR. SAUNDERS: Yes. 15 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. 16 for that motion? 17 Dennis? 18 MR. TUCKER: 19 I second that; Dennis Tucker. 20 THE CHAIRMAN: 21 MS. WARREN: 22 Is there a second All right. Any -- Yes, excuse me. Jennifer Warren. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 This is Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 76 1 2 Just for the record, Dennis Tucker seconded it. 3 4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Dennis. 5 6 All right. Is there any further debate on this motion? 7 All right. All in favor, say "aye." 8 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 9 THE CHAIRMAN: Aye. Any opposed? 10 All right. So the motion carries. 11 Is there -- 12 Oh, John, I see your -- 13 MR. SAUNDERS: One last comment to the 14 Mint. After we've had heard the liaison thought 15 reverse design 3 with the not liking her in tears, 16 which I think is a very valid point, maybe that design 17 could be a different facial expression there. 18 the design-work, but it's somehow -- redoing it to 19 take into consideration the comments from the liaison. 20 21 22 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. I like John, thank you very much. Okay. If all our discussion on this www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 77 1 portfolio has concluded, I would really like to take a 2 moment to express our appreciations to Dr. Sheila 3 Chamberlain for joining us today, and for all of the 4 hard work that she, and her family, and others, have 5 put into brining this Congressional Gold Medal to 6 fruition. 7 So, Dr. Chamberlain, thank you again 8 very much for your presence today, and your comments. 9 And again, apologies for the technical difficulties 10 we've been having. 11 So take care. Jennifer, we are a little bit ahead of 12 schedule, so I just want to make sure that we can go 13 ahead with our next portfolio, or should we recess for 14 a few moments? 15 16 MS. WARREN: Sure. This is Jennifer Warren. 17 Just remember, the group, to state your 18 name before you talking, just again, for the court 19 reporter, for those on the call. 20 working on the microphones, so at lunch we will fix 21 that. 22 speakers above us, so they're trying to adjust the Again, we are There's some feedback that's going on with the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 78 1 volume so that they would work, but yet not being that 2 loud noise. 3 So I ask that you pretend that you're 4 outside at a baseball game, and yell as loud as 5 possible. 6 your patience. So I appreciate that, and thank you for 7 8 THE CHAIRMAN: All right, Jennifer. Thank you very much. 9 So the next portfolio for consideration 10 is the reverse candidate designs for the 2026 Native 11 American $1 Coin. 12 will present the candidate designs for the 2026 Native 13 American $1 Coin. April Stafford and Megan Sullivan 14 So, April, whenever you are ready. 15 MS. WARREN: 16 ten-minute break? 17 liaisons on. We were trying to get one of the 18 THE CHAIRMAN: 19 MS. WARREN: 20 THE CHAIRMAN: 21 22 Can we actually take a Okay. If that would be okay? Absolutely -- absolutely. MS. WARREN: So we will -- we are ahead www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 79 1 2 3 of schedule. So we were supposed to start at 12:00. MS. STAFFORD: MS. WARREN: 5 THE CHAIRMAN: Five minutes. MS. WARREN: 8 MS. STAFFORD: 9 MS. WARREN: she is -- yes, she is on. Okay. 12 THE CHAIRMAN: 13 take a five-minute recess. 14 MS. WARREN: 15 MS. STAFFORD: 18 19 20 21 22 She's here; sorry. She was there, and now, Scratch that. 17 So we will take a Oh, there she is. 11 16 Okay. five-minute recess, and we will be back at -- 7 10 If we could just make it five minutes. 4 6 Okay. All right. We will not Sorry about that. No, thank you. I appreciate everyone's patience. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. So, April, whenever you are ready. MS. WARREN: Try it. And then, if you hear feedback, turn it off. MS. STAFFORD: All right. Every year since 2009, in accordance with the Native American $1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 80 1 Coin Act, the United States Mint has annually minted 2 and issued golden-hued $1 coins that honor Native 3 Americans and celebrate the important contributions 4 made by Indian tribes, and individual Native 5 Americans, to the development and history of the 6 United States. 7 The obverse of the coins retain the 8 depiction of Sacagawea, and her infant son, first used 9 in 2000 on the Sacagawea Golden Dollar. You can see 10 that on our screen now. In 2026, the reverse design 11 will commemorate the Oneidas at Valley Forge. 12 A little bit about this theme. Polly 13 Cooper was an Oneida woman who accompanied a group of 14 Oneida warriors to join the American cause during the 15 Revolutionary War. 16 foot to Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, carrying bushels 17 of white corn to feed the starving troops. 18 They traveled hundreds of miles on Oral tradition creates Cooper for 19 preparing and teaching the soldiers how to prepare the 20 corn, which, without proper preparation, would have 21 swollen in their stomachs and killed them. 22 of her fellow Oneidas returned home, Cooper remained www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 After many Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 81 1 with the Continental Army, and continued to aid them. 2 This theme coincides with the broader 3 coin theme for 2026, celebrating the U.S. 4 Semiquincentennial, or 250th anniversary of the 5 founding of our nation, as authorized under the 6 Circulating Collectible Coin Redesign Act of 2020. 7 The United States Mint sought input 8 from the Oneida Nation and Oneida Indian Nation. 9 the feedback was that the following designs were And 10 strong representations of the subject theme. 11 1, 3, 6, and 7. 12 legislative liaisons, and the formal preferences we 13 received from the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, 14 the Congressional Native American Caucus of the House 15 of Representatives, and the National Congress of the 16 American Indian, are 1, 2, 3, 6, and 7. 17 Design Now, that input was shared with our We are very fortunate to have with us 18 today, Linn Cornelius, representative of the Oneida 19 Nation, referred to us by officials for her family's 20 research and knowledge of the subject of Polly Cooper. 21 We also have Celia Belmonte, Assistant General Counsel 22 of the Oneida Indian Nation. And with us here today, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 82 1 in person, is Denise Desiderio, Senior Policy Advisor 2 for Akin, on behalf of the Oneida Indian Nation. 3 Can I ask if our guests would like to 4 say a few words to the Committee? 5 could start with Ms. Cornelius. 6 MS. CORNELIUS: And perhaps, I Good morning. My name 7 is Linn Cornelius. I'm an ancestor to Polly Cooper. 8 She would be the 5th great-aunt from my family. 9 interested in the Revolutionary War, with her helping 10 the colonists to provide -- by providing food, 11 blankets, and -- for them. 12 them how to cook the corn. Very And Polly Cooper showed 13 Sorry, I'm echoing. 14 To cook the corn, because if you ate 15 the corn raw, you would get a bloated stomach, and get 16 sick. 17 could in proving the food for them, or the meals. She helped with the colonists as much as she 18 MS. STAFFORD: 19 And if I can ask Ms. Belmonte or 20 Thank you. Desiderio? 21 Celia? 22 Okay. Hold on one second, Ms. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 83 1 Belmonte. 2 Jen, are we -- 3 MS. WARREN: 4 they're -- I don't know if her microphone's working. 5 6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I think it just did. 7 8 Yeah, she's unmuted, but MS. BELMONTE: Oh, hi. Apologies. Did that work? 9 MS. WARREN: Yes -- yes. 10 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes -- yes. 11 MS. BELMONTE: 12 Thank you all very much for your time. Okay, great. 13 It's a pleasure being here with you all. 14 if there's any reverb. 15 I apologize Denise, if you would like to say a few 16 words on our behalf, because I think there might be 17 some reverb from me. 18 MS. DESIDERIO: Thank you, Celia. 19 Thank you for letting me be here in 20 person today. It's really a special experience. 21 was engaging with Roger earlier, I guess last weekend, 22 and I did -- I feel loud. I'm really -- okay. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 84 1 I let him know that when I got to the 2 Senate Committee on Indian Affairs in 2009, I was able 3 to participate in the designs for the first coin. 4 it was a really special experience, and I've really 5 loved this program ever since. 6 And So I am here today representing the 7 Oneida Indian Nation. And I think, just a show of 8 gratitude from the Oneida Indian Nation of New York 9 for inclusion in this program. The Polly Copper 10 experience is really the experience with the United 11 States; right? 12 Shenandoah at the time, and the Oneida Indian Nation. 13 Polly was a representative of Chief And it's, you know, there's a -- a 14 depiction of this very time, called Allies in War, and 15 Partners in Peace; right? 16 is on the coin, it really is the representation of 17 that first relationship, the first allies as the 18 United States was being formed, and the role that the 19 Oneida Indian Nation, and their representative, Polly 20 Cooper, played in -- in really bringing, kind of, 21 those first relationships that formed these United 22 States. And I think although Polly www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 85 1 So we appreciate the opportunity to 2 participate. 3 on the coins, but overall just think that this is 4 going to be a great opportunity to highlight the role 5 that the Oneida Indian Nation in New York still plays 6 in the Government, the Government relationship with 7 the United States. 8 9 And we do have, you know, some comments MS. STAFFORD: Okay. So as we move through the portfolio, I will pause to share these 10 specific preferences. 11 feature the required inscriptions, "United States of 12 America" and "$1." 13 All of the candidate designs So we'll start, first, with design 1. 14 This design depicts Polly Cooper holding ears of corn 15 while she prepares a pot of food. 16 elements around her indicate the harsh winter 17 environment and conditions at Valley Forge. 18 background, Oneida Chief Shenandoah -- 19 20 21 22 The snow-covered In the I just want to make sure I'm pronouncing that right. In the background, Oneida Chief Shenandoah hands blankets to General Washington, who www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 86 1 reaches from horseback. 2 a blanket around his shoulders. 3 inscription reads, "Oneidas at Valley Forge." 4 Beside them, a soldier wraps An additional Design 1 is, again, a preference of the 5 Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, as well as the 6 National Congress of the American Indians. 7 also identified for the strength of its depiction of 8 the theme during review by an Oneida Nations subject 9 matter expert. 10 It was Design 2 shows Polly Cooper carrying a 11 bowl of prepared corn and blankets to Continental Army 12 Troops, symbolized by the tricorn hat in the 13 foreground. 14 ear of corn, includes cabins, tents, and trees buried 15 in snow. 16 Valley Forge." 17 The design, vertically demarcated with an An additional inscription reads "Oneidas at Design 2 is a preference of the 18 Congressional Native American Caucus of the House of 19 Representatives. 20 Reverse 3 portrays Polly Cooper holding 21 a basket of corn, and standing next to General 22 Washington, who is holding an ear of corn she has www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 87 1 shared with him. 2 the hope the Oneidas' gift of corn would have inspired 3 in the soldiers. 4 "Oneidas Aid at Valley Forge." 5 The rays in the background represent And additional inscription reads, Design 3 is a preference of the Senate 6 Committee on Indian Affairs. 7 for the strength of its depiction of the theme during 8 review by Oneida Nation and Oneida Indian Nation 9 subject matter experts. 10 It was also identified Reverses 4 and 4A, 5, 6. This design 11 depicts Polly Cooper alongside a bald eagle. 12 eagle is very important to the Oneidas, as it 13 represents a protector, and a message from the 14 creator. 15 strength. 16 Allies at Valley Forge." 17 The Here, it is also a symbol of Polly Cooper's An additional inscription reads, "Oneida 6 is a preference of the National 18 Congress of American Indians, and also, was identified 19 for the strength of its depiction of the subject theme 20 during the review by an Oneida Nation subject matter 21 expert. 22 6A, 7. This design shows Polly Cooper www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 88 1 as she carries baskets, and a basket of corn. 2 additional inscription reads, "Oneidas at Valley 3 Forge." 4 And This design is a preference of the 5 Senate Committee on Indian Affairs and the 6 Congressional Native American Caucus of the House of 7 Representatives. 8 strength of its depiction of the subject theme during 9 review by an Oneida Nations subject matter expert. 10 11 Designs 8, 9, 11, 11A, and 12. That concludes the candidate designs, Mr. Chairman. 12 13 It was also identified for the THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you, April. 14 I would like to welcome and thank Ms. 15 Cornelius, Ms. Belmonte, and Ms. Desiderio for joining 16 us today. 17 And, Ms. Desiderio, you mentioned that 18 there were some comments that you had on some of these 19 designs. 20 this time, if you'd like. 21 22 Certainly welcome to hear those from you at MS. DESIDERIO: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 89 1 I will say that -- and I think we're a 2 little late to this process, so forgive me for a 3 minute. 4 preference of the Oneida Indian Nation of New York to 5 have the depiction, "Allies in War and Partners in 6 Peace," which is actually an exhibit that already 7 exists, which shows Chief Shenandoah, Polly Cooper, 8 and George Washington. 9 It would be, probably, the ultimate We -- we were, I think, a bit late to 10 the consultation process, but are very much engaged 11 now. 12 Nation has been consulting, and has identified 25 13 descendants of Polly Cooper that still reside on the 14 conditional homelands of the Oneida Indian Nation of 15 New York. 16 So if that's not possible, the Oneida Indian And the preference would be No. 3. And again, you know, Polly Cooper was a 17 representative of the Nation. But this, we think, 18 shows the -- the Nation-to-Nation, kind of, exchange, 19 and it shows the exchange of traditional culture, 20 knowledge, information to, you know, sustain George 21 Washington and his troops. 22 Nation-to-Nation relationship that we think still And again, represents that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 90 1 exists very strongly between the Nation and the United 2 States today. 3 So we want to highlight Polly Cooper 4 very strongly, and are very engaged in -- in how this 5 depicts, you know, that initial ally relationship of 6 the Nation, and the newly forming United States. 7 MS. STAFFORD: 8 And, Mr. Chair, if I can add -- and we 9 Thank you. did share this as well, the statue that was referred 10 to was absolutely provided as a reference to our 11 artist because of how incredibly well it embodies the 12 spirit of the story. 13 artists were to try to distill that to this 14 appropriate, you know, medium of -- of a coin. 15 16 And so, our charge to the And if it's okay, perhaps you'd go to Ms. Cornelius. 17 THE CHAIRMAN: 18 Yes. Oh, absolutely. I certainly would welcome 19 additional comments from Ms. Cornelius and Ms. 20 Belmonte. 21 Ms. Cornelius, if you would, please. 22 MS. CORNELIUS: Good morning. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I do Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 91 1 like the 03, the 26NA-03, because of the "Oneidas Aid 2 at Valley Forge." 3 which emphasizes Polly Cooper with the blankets and 4 the corn. 5 provide for the colonists at Valley Forge. But I also liked the 2 -- 26NA-07, It's showing what we did -- the Oneidas did 6 But, honestly, I like that one. And 7 then, I also like the other one, which is slide No. 8 10, with Polly Cooper with the eagle and the corn. 9 It's showing that we were allies at the Valley Forge, 10 and that -- and with the eagle, being the protector of 11 the United States of America. 12 she brought forward -- to really bring a picture of 13 her to bring her to life. 14 15 Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you, Ms. Cornelius. 16 17 With -- with all that Ms. Belmonte, do you have any additional comments? 18 MS. BELMONTE: Just that I would like 19 to second Denise's comments regarding the United 20 Indian Nation of New York's support of design No. 3. 21 22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you very much. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 92 1 Just had a technical moment. 2 Jennifer, are we okay? 3 MS. WARREN: 4 THE CHAIRMAN: 5 All right. 6 Are there any technical or legal Um-hmm. Oh, okay. All right. Thank you. 7 questions from the Committee about this program, or 8 the designs for the 2026 Native American $1 Coin, 9 before we begin our general discussion? 10 And, John, I see your hand is raised. 11 MR. SAUNDERS: 12 13 Yeah, it's more of a technical -- start over again. Hi, this is John Saunders. This is a 14 technical question. 15 hundreds of miles, you would've thought it would be 16 more efficient to take the grains of corn off of the 17 ear, and just bring the kernels this distance, rather 18 than bringing the whole corn ear. 19 Since this grain was hauled many Even if that is the case, I'm not 20 opposed to showing the whole corn ear, because that -- 21 that tells you what it is, because you couldn't really 22 see much if it was just some kernels. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 But I'm Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 93 1 interested in, historically, if we know which way it 2 was. 3 4 MS. DESIDERIO: I do not have an answer to that. 5 MS. STAFFORD: I believe our 6 information was that it was ears of corn that was 7 transported, if that's the question. 8 Roger? 9 10 MR. VASQUEZ: Am I correct, We could refer to Ms. Cornelius -- 11 MS. STAFFORD: 12 Ms. Cornelius, is that correct? 13 MS. CORNELIUS: 14 15 Ms. Cornelius. Well, excuse me. It came in fuzzy. MS. STAFFORD: Is it correct that the 16 way the corn was transported by the Oneidas to the 17 Continental Army was as ears of corn as opposed to 18 individual kernels? 19 20 MS. CORNELIUS: It was by ears of corn. Corn on the cob, if you would like to say. 21 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. 22 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Thank you. Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 94 1 2 Are there any other questions or comments? 3 All right. Let's being our 4 consideration. 5 the Committee members to keep it to five minutes, and 6 to please speak your name before -- before your 7 comments. 8 9 And again, I'd like to remind all of We'll begin with Dr. Christopher Capozzola, if we have a microphone available. 10 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 11 This is Christopher Capozzola, and I 12 13 All right. Thank you. think the technology is working. I'd like to thank the liaisons and the 14 artists for this work. As I was -- as I was examining 15 it, I was appreciating two factors at the same time. 16 First, wanting to center Native American agency as -- 17 as the actors in the story, maybe more than the 18 revolutionary soldiers. 19 this coin in 2026, as part of the broader 20 sesquicentennial program, the importance of including 21 Native Americans in the history of the -- of the 22 American Revolution, and our reflections on the 250th And second, the importance of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 95 1 anniversary of that. 2 And also, wherever possible, to 3 recognize, sort of, changing understandings of Native 4 Americans as -- as sovereign nations, operating on the 5 North American continent at the same time that the 13 6 colonies were navigating their own path to sovereignty 7 from Britain. 8 9 This led me to some choices as follows. In terms of a historical content, I find 01, particularly, the richest. It conveys Polly 10 Cooper; it conveys the place of Oneidas at Valley 11 Forge. 12 heft. 13 coin, and I have some concerns about whether the 14 design would be legible in its -- in its produced 15 size. I do -- and has, sort of, strong emotion and I do think it is, in part, maybe too busy for a 16 I definitely liked 03, although I did 17 have some concerns about the balance between 18 Washington and Polly Cooper. 19 they were reversed in some ways, in size, I would find 20 that much more compelling. 21 word, "aid." 22 whenever I can encounter "Oneida Allies at Valley In fact, I would -- if And I also don't like the I actually -- whenever possible, I -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 96 1 Forge," I think that conveys national sovereignty for 2 the Oneida in ways that "aid," sort of, may tap into 3 older, kind of, understandings of Native peoples as 4 helpers of the white actors. 5 In No. 6, I did appreciate the way that 6 this conveys the message, but worry that the design 7 was a bit cartoonish, and drew a little bit on 8 iconography of eagles that may be more familiar from 9 the American Southwest or Mexico, and would want to 10 know a little bit more about whether that kind of 11 eagle design resonates with Oneida communities. 12 And then, No. 7 -- I was not -- 13 although I liked the -- the individual drawing in the 14 center, I didn't feel that it necessarily conveyed 15 Valley Forge as a -- as a place and a moment, fully. 16 And that they didn't have a good 250th element to it, 17 that maybe some of the other designs had. 18 you very much. 19 20 THE CHAIRMAN: Wonderful. So thank Thank you, Chris. 21 Dennis, if you would, please. 22 MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 97 1 This is Dennis Tucker. 2 our liaisons. 3 and your advice and counsel. 4 Thank you to We appreciate your help on this program I'm from Upstate New York, so the 5 Oneida Nation is very important to me. 6 that we learned about in school when we were kids, and 7 it's an ever-present part of our -- our growing up, 8 and living in New York. 9 It's something The -- so -- and thanks to the Mint, 10 too, for a wonderful portfolio of designs here. 11 got a lot to look at, and a lot to -- to weigh. 12 We've If I -- I try to, kind of, boil down 13 who liked what, when it comes to our -- the -- the 14 Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, the National 15 Congress of American Indians, and the Oneida Nation 16 all expressed interest in design 1. 17 Committee, the Oneida Nation, and the Oneida Indian 18 Nation all expressed interest in design 3. 19 1 and 3 were the two that I focused on most. 20 The Senate So designs And my question as I looked at these 21 designs, kind of, boiled down to which one best 22 satisfies the intent of this $1 Coin program, which is www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 98 1 to honor Native Americans, and celebrate their -- 2 their contributions to the United States. 3 And I think that design 1 does. In 4 design 3, Chris, I'm going to mirror some of your 5 comments. 6 thinking along the same lines. I think we -- we were, you know, we were 7 George Washington is the main actor 8 here. He's dramatically holding an ear of corn, he's 9 clutching his cape, he commands our attention. What 10 he's looking at, we look at. 11 emphasized further by the explosion light behind the 12 ear of corn. 13 And his focus is Polly Cooper is smaller. She is 14 physically lower in our visual plane. 15 not even in Washington's point of focus, so how could 16 she really be ours with this design? 17 me, is about the United States. 18 She's -- she's This coin, to Contrast that with design 1, George 19 Washington is still there, but he's much smaller. 20 note the postures of the figures in the center. 21 Shenandoah stands straight and tall. 22 horse bows its head before Shenandoah. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Chief Washington's And Washington Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 99 1 himself bends forward in the act of receiving help, 2 almost as if he's bowing. 3 Now, look at the entirety of the coin 4 design. Polly Cooper is the main actor. She's 5 productive, she's in motion, she commands our 6 attention. 7 figures in the center, a protective figure herself. 8 This coin is about the Oneidas. She forms a sheltering arch over the 9 And I also like the way this design 10 really embodies the harsh winter struggle of Valley 11 Forge. 12 are taught about Valley Forge, and -- and that harsh 13 winter. 14 here, we have snow that's piling up on the $1 15 denomination, which is wonderfully creative. 16 actually see snow falling. 17 of the other designs, which could have happened at any 18 time of year. 19 This is what we think of when we -- when we We think of snow; we think of cold. And And we We don't see that in a lot So to me, No. 1 is really the strongest 20 in this portfolio, and it will have my creative 21 support. 22 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Dennis, thank you very www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 100 1 much for your comments. 2 Annelisa, if you would, please. 3 MS. PURDIE: 4 Hill, 4512. 5 6 Thank you. Paging Murray Can anyone hear me? Hey, paging Murray Hill. Can everyone hear me? 7 THE CHAIRMAN: 8 MS. PURDIE: 9 Thank you very much. 10 Purdie. 11 liaisons and the designers. 12 There we go. Wonderful. This is Annelisa I would also like to extend thanks to our One thing that was striking about all 13 of the designs for this coin is the role of food or 14 sustenance in maintaining life and survival. 15 think that, to a degree, all of the designs which were 16 submitted here bring that message across in various 17 ways. 18 And I I think that design 1 does hit all of 19 the necessary historical points. It emphasizes the 20 climate, it emphasizes the action, the role of 21 preparing sustenance properly in order to maintain 22 life for others. And I think that to viewers, it www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 101 1 gives the message of the story. 2 those who are familiar Valley Forge would understand, 3 but it's also something that would inspire others to 4 research more about it, which works well. 5 It's something that My preference is for the designs that 6 veer towards 5 and 7, for the sheer fact that the 7 emphasis is on Polly Cooper herself. 8 important to emphasize that her works helped the 9 soldiers to survive, it was that knowledge of her And while it is 10 people, of the preparation of this food, of this 11 sustenance that was key to that survival. 12 And I think that the designs for both 13 of these coins -- for me, 7 more so than 5 -- really 14 work to convey that. 15 historical cues about when and where this takes place, 16 but it also shows the amount of labor and effort that 17 went into, not just the preparation of this food, but 18 the transport of this food, and the consideration of 19 other things in order to provide that sustenance to 20 others. 21 22 We still get the important 5 works well in this sense too, but I found that there was a lot of activity going on in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 102 1 this coin, particularly with the tree branches. I 2 understand the emphasis on the harsh winters, but it 3 does detract from the overall design. 4 enthused about the fact that she's looking down. 5 would've made a bigger impact to see her face upwards. 6 But overall, I think that both of these I also wasn't It 7 designs emphasize her, and the role that she played, 8 and the fact that her descendants are still honoring 9 her today, so that that had impact to where we are 10 11 12 now. Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you very much, Annelisa. 13 John Saunders, if you would, please. 14 MR. SAUNDERS: 15 John Saunders here. 16 This coin has special meaning to me. Thank you. 17 One, because it's celebrating Indians' role in 18 American society, which I think was sadly uncelebrated 19 for many, many years. 20 be invited to the U.S. Mint in the 1900 to participate 21 in the striking of the first ones. 22 the strike of a Sacagawea dollar at the Mint, and they And secondly, I was honored to And I actually got www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 103 1 let me buy it for a dollar, which was very nice. 2 Anyway, in terms of designs, 3 artistically, I like design 1 a lot, but I think it's 4 got too much on it. 5 dollar, I don't think it works. 6 idea that that's George Washington in the background, 7 so it doesn't tell the kind of story that's at Valley 8 Forge, to me. 9 and this was on the silver dollar, I would like the In a coin the size of a Sacagawea I -- I would have no Maybe if there was a series of coins, 10 design. This is an attractive design, it just doesn't 11 tell the story to me, as far as I'm concerned. 12 Design 2 is nice, but you know, I think 13 there's better. 14 One, I agree that if Washington could be a little bit 15 lower, or not quite as prominent. 16 could be a little bit larger; it'd be great. 17 the way it is, I think it's fine. 18 I like design 3 best. Two comments. And Polly Cooper But even The other thing that I didn't like 19 about this, is when I first looked at it, and I -- I 20 put a lot of importance on what you see when you first 21 glance at something because a lot of the public is not 22 going to look at things in -- in detail, like us coin www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 104 1 collectors and coin nerds do. 2 Washington was holding a falcon or a bird on his hand, 3 rather than an ear of corn. 4 top of the -- whatever you call it. 5 end of the corn. 6 of a bird. 7 comments even so. Just the way it -- the The straw at the At first, it looked like a -- a head But I still like the design, those two 8 9 I thought that Design 4, I think, also tells the story, but it's kind of a dorky expression on George 10 Washington's face there; right? 11 find it, overall attractive. 12 I didn't -- I didn't Design 5 is nice, but Polly looks so 13 sad. She's bending over, and looks like she's almost 14 in tears. 15 facing forward with a, you know, a reasonable 16 expression, I would say it's great. 17 wouldn't be all for it. You know, if you had that design with her 18 But as it is, I 6, I didn't like the facial 19 expressions. I didn't know how to describe it. I 20 think Dennis -- or Chris described it right when he 21 called it somewhat cartoonish. 22 the eyebrows, the nose -- just, it didn't look right But the -- the lips, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 105 1 to me. 2 7, I liked a lot. It was my second 3 choice. 4 the one that's worried about facial expressions, but I 5 thought the facial expression was kind of strange. 6 is okay, but it -- 11A and B are okay, but it -- I 7 think there's better designs for telling the story. 8 9 8, I guess, you guys are going to think I'm And I did not like the last one, the -the 1-12. It almost looked like a snake in the 10 corner, rather than the braid holding it together. 11 Again, if you look at it for -- quickly, before you 12 study it. 13 second choice of No. 7. 14 15 11 So I am in favor of probably No. 3, with a THE CHAIRMAN: John, thank you very much for your comments. 16 And I would also invite you if you'd 17 like, to correct your comment earlier about being at 18 the Mint in 2000, rather than 1900, for the Sacagawea 19 Dollar. 20 21 22 MR. WEINMAN: I believe the event actually was 1999. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 1999. Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 106 1 All right. 2 Dr. Harcourt Fuller, if you would, 3 please. 4 5 Thank you very much. DR. FULLER: is Dr. Harcourt Fuller. 6 Thank you very much. This Thanks to all the liaisons. Let me go to 1 first, if I may? 7 you. 8 that this has a lot of information. 9 recognize that that's George Washington in the Thank I agree that this, from a historical standpoint, I wouldn't 10 background. 11 John, that it is a little bit too busy even though it 12 conveys a lot of information. 13 I also -- I would agree, I think, with And let's go to 3, please. I would 14 agree to switch perspective and the position of -- of 15 George Washington and Polly Cooper, because I do think 16 that the focus is more on Washington, and he's not 17 necessarily -- he's not even looking at Polly Cooper. 18 So I really think that -- I agree that their positions 19 and perspectives should be modified. 20 Can we pull out to all of the designs 21 on one page, please? That's why I like 6. 22 but before you go to 6, if you're looking at all of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I just -- Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 107 1 the designs on one page, the one that pops is 6. 2 though, you know, I acknowledge Christopher's comment 3 that it looks cartoonish, nonetheless, I just think 4 that this shows a lot of agency. 5 symmetry between the eagle, and Polly Cooper. 6 just -- it's a very dignified coin, and it's a coin 7 that speaks of strength and purpose. 8 think it's the best design that highlights her role, 9 and the role of the -- of you know, of Native 10 Americans in U.S. History. 11 12 You know, the It And that's why I Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah. Thank you very much. 13 14 Chris Capozzola had one brief comment, if he -- 15 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 16 Hi, this is Chris Capozzola. If I could. Just a 17 brief comment on my earlier comment. 18 that cartooning is an important tradition, part of 19 American traditions. 20 cartoonish, it's not a critique, but it -- I was 21 flagging an aesthetic choice. 22 Even To emphasize And when I say something is And personally, I don't think it's an www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 108 1 aesthetic choice proper for this coin. But I know 2 want our cartoon artists, many of them that contribute 3 that likely tune in, to feel that I have spoken 4 negatively of their work. 5 THE CHAIRMAN: 6 Mike Moran, if you would, please. 7 MR. MORAN: 8 Thank you very much. Let's hope I don't get feedback this time. 9 THE CHAIRMAN: Sounds good. 10 MR. MORAN: 11 THE CHAIRMAN: 12 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 13 MS. WARREN: 14 Are you there? We're here. We can't hear you; we're muted. 15 MR. MORAN: 16 MS. WARREN: 17 MR. MORAN: 18 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 19 MR. MORAN: 20 MS. WARREN: 21 22 We are. Shoot. We can -- go on. Can you hear me now? Probably too well. Yes, we can. mute the room so there's no feedback. MR. MORAN: Yes. Good. We have to So go on. I don't have it here www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 109 1 either. 2 I agree with everybody else that No. 1 3 is way too busy. 4 in the foreground, and it's too busy. 3, I don't like 5 the positioning of George Washington. It gets even 6 worse in 4, and the face in 4 just comes straight of 7 the $1 bill as an older image of Washington, not 8 current with Valley Forge. 9 No. 2, again, tries to do too much 5, the tree adds nothing, and needs to 10 go. But again, the face, I guess she's referential 11 towards the corn. 12 design. 13 I don't get; I get lost on the coin 6, I'm always frustrated when I see two 14 design elements against each other, competing. And 15 that being the eagle and Polly Cooper's face. 16 needs to be some negative space in there, otherwise, 17 the design's going to run together. 18 expect Joe can smooth the skin out, versus the 19 feathers, and it won't be as bad. 20 ones there. There Although, I But there're better 21 That gets us to 7; simple, but good. 22 And again, it's -- it's the correct use of negative www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 110 1 space. It conveys the story of the blankets and the 2 corn. 3 clods in No. 1. 4 Forge down below in the inscriptions. 5 to overkill it with snow on her hair, and everywhere 6 else. You don't need the snow, which looks like dirt You've got it right there with Valley You don't need So that is my choice. 7 And I did like the -- the -- of corn, 8 but I don't think they tell enough, and they certainly 9 do not give the -- the full story of the Oneida 10 contribution of Valley Forge. 11 them any votes. So I won't be giving That's it. 12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mike. 13 Donald, if you would. 14 MR. SCARINCI: So you know, one of the 15 great things about this process and the Committee is I 16 think most of come in, you know, we spend time with 17 this before we come in, and then we have our thoughts, 18 and we persuade each other about, you know, we see 19 things that some of us, you know, don't see. 20 that's the -- very much the case today. 21 22 And I really came in, you know, very positively about No. 3, you know. But I think the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 111 1 commentary from people, including Dennis, is right on 2 point that, you know, that for this coin, for this 3 series, the focus doesn't -- shouldn't really be about 4 the corn, or the General, you know, because this is a 5 Native American Indian series; right? 6 So however, that being said, we have 7 other -- we have some cool things happening in 2026, 8 and I think maybe we could see this coin, maybe in a 9 larger format down the road. This doesn't have to be 10 the last time we see design No. 3. 11 design, just not really, I think, for this series, for 12 all of the comments that have been stated so far. 13 It's a great I'll also debunk No. 1, which I did 14 debunk coming in here, simply because these figures, 15 they're smaller than a mosquito. 16 going to see it, you know. 17 front of you, you can see the size of the palette, and 18 the coin they selected to illustrate. 19 bothered me at the time we -- we discussed it. 20 You're just not And on your palette in You know, it You know, it was these little -- these 21 little men, and these little workers. 22 them. You can't see And -- and in hand, you just really need a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 112 1 loop. And you -- you know, it just almost looks like 2 it's a -- it's a blemish on the coin, you know. 3 the -- you know, from -- with using the naked eye. 4 On So I think -- I think No. 6 -- I think 5 No. 6 is potentially a poor attempt. It's not really 6 a -- you know, I wouldn't use the word cartoon for it. 7 It is a -- it is a style. 8 see, I suspect, based on what we're seeing in the 9 portfolio today, and knowing where Joe Menna is -- is And it is -- we're going to 10 leading us, you know, we're going to see more things 11 like this. 12 in -- even more in the mainstream of -- of a genre 13 like this. 14 more to be said about this later, I think tomorrow. 15 And more things, even, you know, even more So very exciting, very -- a lot -- lot However, you know, when you really look 16 at the whole portfolio, I think No. 7 is the clear 17 choice. 18 didn't come in with that. 19 I was really thinking about the Washington piece, the 20 No. 3. 21 right -- it's the right size. 22 You know, it really -- it really -- and I I came in with that as 1. But No. 7 is exactly what -- is exactly the It's, as Mike said -- and Mike said it, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 113 1 you know, better than me. 2 negative space, you've got -- you've got the focus on 3 the image, not only of the -- of the, you know, of the 4 Native American Indian, who by the way, were very 5 important at Valley Forge for providing food. 6 you know, I learned about that as I was researching my 7 book about David Brearley, who -- who prosecuted 8 deserters for General Washington at Valley Forge. 9 he -- and the descriptions of what was going on there, 10 and the hunger, and the desertion, and everything, and 11 the cold. 12 I mean, you've got the Which, And So -- so, what's -- this design is 13 perfect for the series. It's simple, it's direct, 14 it's -- it ties us into Valley Forge, which is great 15 for 2026, and the other coins that are going to be 16 coming out then. 17 the hand without the assistance of a loop. 18 it's -- and it's very consistent with the other coins 19 in the Native American $1 series, which you know how I 20 feel about that. 21 collector that when we produce these coins, we are 22 producing coins in a series. And it's clean; you can see it in So -- and It's very important to me as a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 114 1 This coin does not circulate; right? 2 This is one of the many coins that does not circulate. 3 It is collected. 4 coin, in the nature of the series, I think, is very 5 important. 6 So you know, looking at the -- the Sorry for going a touch over, but I, 7 you know, that's the problem with going last. 8 to, you know, I've heard a lot that changed my -- that 9 changed my view coming into this. 10 11 THE CHAIRMAN: Not quite last -- not quite last. 12 Kellen, if you would. 13 MR. HOARD: 14 I try Thank you. This is Kellen Hoard. 15 I'm pretty blown away, 'cause Chris 16 said everything I was going to say, word for word. 17 Like, I've never had that happen before; on the same 18 designs, on everything. 19 much -- oh, my God. 20 So I don't have much more to say. 21 22 I don't even know what to say. I like 1. should go. And then, Dennis, also pretty I think 1 is the way that we I really don't think it's as much of an www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 115 1 issue. 2 contextualizes the work that they were doing quite 3 well. 4 actually gives out a lot of these coins to young 5 people, they like having the context and the story and 6 understanding that, kind of, clearly. 7 that best. 8 9 I think it's a compelling design that As a -- you know, as a young person who I think 1 does And it does it creatively. kind of, like the snow design element. I also, Well, I'll 10 tell you -- I don't know if you guys are familiar 11 with, Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs, the kids 12 movie, but that was my concern with No. 2, was that a 13 lot of the young people would interpret it as the 14 giant food from Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs. 15 3, same comments as everybody else, 16 with the power dynamic being totally wrong. 4 isn't a 17 compelling design to me. 18 she was -- looked too sad. 19 doesn't capture what we're trying to capture. 20 find that the -- the eagle motif is related to Valley 21 Forge, or -- or their role at Valley Forge, so I'm -- 22 I shy away from that one. I liked 5, but again, I felt On 6, I just feel like it www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I don't Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 116 1 7, you convinced me a little bit on 7. 2 I like that one more after hearing from Mike and 3 Donald, but I still feel it doesn't have enough 4 context of where they are. 5 indigenous contributions to a number of different 6 things throughout American history that this could be, 7 design-wise, to me. 8 9 There have been many And then, for 11, I just don't feel it's serves the people enough. So end up back at 1, 10 as kind of, the way we should go. 11 Dennis stole all my thunder, so -- But Chris and 12 THE CHAIRMAN: Oh, well. 13 MR. SCARINCI: Can I just make one -- 14 just one very brief comment. 15 THE CHAIRMAN: 16 MR SCARINCI: Very brief. I just have to -- I just 17 have to say something about Kellen. 18 for, you know, for John, and -- and me, probably, 19 that -- that design that it referred to, we would call 20 that something out of the Land of the Giants, which 21 was a series when I was a kid. 22 THE CHAIRMAN: You know -- so Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 117 1 Art, if you would. 2 MR. BERNSTEIN: 3 Everything I was going to say has This is Art Bernstein. 4 already been said, so I'll simply indicate that No. 7 5 is my primary choice. 6 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you. 7 Yes, and I will repeat what I've heard 8 from the last few commenters, where pretty much 9 everything has already been said. 10 I don't really have that much of a 11 problem with 1. I -- I do see this as a very 12 interesting narrative. 13 denominator, it seems, for most of the liaisons and 14 represents. It -- it also is the common 15 THE REPORTER: You want to turn it off? 16 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, I'll turn that 17 18 off. I find the aesthetics of No. 6, 19 actually, really quite interesting and compelling. 20 find that to be a very strong design, and was 21 immediately drawn to it. 22 and simplicity in No. 7, as a possibility, and do I also do see the elegance www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 118 1 think that the emphasis on this coin really should be 2 on Polly Cooper herself, and certainly not on George 3 Washington, or necessarily the -- the Continental 4 Army. 5 That's all I've got to say. There are 6 a couple of questions that were raised in the 7 discussions. 8 No. 1, particularly, because there -- there does seem 9 to be some concern that this design is a little too And I would like to ask Joe Menna about 10 busy, and that some of the design elements might not 11 be as visible. 12 13 So, Joe, would you like to address that? 14 MR. MENNA: Yes, this is Joe Menna. 15 I -- I have to confess an aesthetic 16 bias. I -- I think this is, well, a miracle of a 17 design, frankly. 18 just saying I think the busyness of it, basically, 19 Polly Cooper is framing the narrative with her body. 20 She's protecting them from the snow. 21 for them. 22 could scale Washington up. And I'm not lobbying for it, I'm She's providing If the bottom text were to be reduced, you www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 119 1 Peter, you just made a comment for No. 2 7, that it -- it put focus on Polly Cooper. 3 lot of the comments seem to be that there's only 4 George Washington. 5 find a balance here. 6 other design suggestion changes are being made for 7 other coins. 8 9 Here, a I think aesthetically, you could And I only offer that in that But I do believe there are others. I'm deferring -- I would defer to whatever -- I'm not trying to lobby. I'm just saying 10 for me, I think this would -- would be unique in 11 American coin history, in terms of the aesthetics, 12 frankly. 13 14 15 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you, Joe. MR. MENNA: And for number -- and for 16 the other one, the one with George and -- and Polly 17 Cooper standing, the scale questions there. 18 cool if I offer something here? 19 THE CHAIRMAN: 20 MS. WARREN: 21 MR. MENNA: 22 Is it Sure. Yes. So if there was -- if there seems to be an absence of parity, my -- my intuition's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 120 1 telling me that the designer was -- was thinking about 2 the literal scale. 3 tallest president we've ever had. 4 giant of a man in every regard. 5 raise Polly -- if the designer were to elevate Polly 6 Cooper, make her, perhaps, bigger. 7 George Washington is probably the He was -- he was a If -- if we were to She's in the foreground; you can both 8 enlarge her and raise her at the same time. You could 9 lower the President a little bit, keep -- all the -- 10 not remove any major design elements. 11 if this -- if there was an absence of -- if this 12 seemed to be subservient or absence of parity, that 13 could be remedied, just by -- by simply moving things 14 around a little -- shuffling things very -- in a very 15 minor way, but to very great effect. 16 17 THE CHAIRMAN: So if parity -- Thank you. All right, Joe. Thank you very much. 18 There was also a question raised about 19 the eagle in No. 6, and whether or not this is 20 appropriate. 21 liaisons to comment on that, and offer any additional 22 comments that they might have at this time as well. And I would like to invite each of our www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 121 1 2 I'd be happy to start with Ms. Desiderio, here in the room with us. 3 MS. DESIDERIO: Thank you so much. And 4 this has really been amazing to see. And I love all 5 the detail and the thought that's gone into 6 everything. And it's -- it's been a really great 7 experience. And on behalf, again, of Onedia Indian 8 Nation, thank you for the inclusion in the process. 9 The Nation does look forward to working with you guys, 10 not only on the design, but on telling the story. 11 It's a really important story. 12 the first stories. 13 of the -- the consultation that's occurring. 14 You know, it's one of So we really are very appreciative I will say on No. 6, one of the things 15 that struck me about it when I first saw it -- and I 16 appreciate and enjoyed the conversation about changing 17 how, you know, not cartoonish, right, but changing how 18 depictions are occurring. 19 Americans have often been caricatured, right, and with 20 no disrespect at all to the artist; it's an amazing 21 drawing, but it reminded me a little bit more of a 22 caricature, where the others were more, I think But as, I think Native www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 122 1 reality-based as far as Polly Cooper's, you know, 2 expressions, and how that was portrayed. 3 I -- I do agree with the comments on 4 the scale on the George Washington design. 5 the preference of the Nation, just because of the 6 Nation-to-Nation relationship. 7 found on No. 1 as well. 8 the comment about changing it from "aid" to "allies." 9 I thought that was a really great recommendation. 10 That was But that can also be And I did really appreciate So I -- I think, you know, we came in, 11 you know, I think 3 -- I think 3 and 1 would portray 12 the Nation-to-Nation relationship best. 13 I think you all will make a very, very good decision. 14 And I think, you know, based on the thought that went 15 into it, you know, you can almost visualize the -- the 16 coin now. And you know, 17 THE CHAIRMAN: 18 Ms. Cornelius, would you like to make a 19 Thank you very much. comment? 20 MS. CORNELIUS: Thank you. 21 I appreciate all the comments that were 22 made, and they gave me a different perspective of some www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 123 1 of the pictures -- the -- as the speakers were 2 talking. 3 looks too busy with the snowflakes and stuff, but I 4 like how -- the interpretation of her being a 5 protector. Especially on No. 1, I understand where it 6 No. 3, I understood the comment about 7 George Washington becoming the forefront versus Polly 8 Cooper. 9 one, first I thought the same thing about her. And the cartoonish -- when I looked at that But I 10 don't know, maybe the more that I looked at it, I -- I 11 understood where that came from. 12 would still be -- doubt, No. 7, because it portrays 13 Polly Cooper. 14 simplicity. But my preference And it -- the space, and the 15 And thank you. 16 THE CHAIRMAN: 17 Ms. Belmonte, would you like to make a 18 Thank you very much. comment? 19 MS. BELMONTE: Yes, thank you. 20 And just reiterating what Denise said, 21 thank you so much for the opportunity to be here, and 22 for all of your helpful comments, and these beautiful www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 124 1 designs. 2 As Denise and I said, at the top, it is 3 the Oneida Indian Nation of New York's preference for 4 design 3, given the -- the story depicts of, you know 5 the Oneidas being the first allies -- or America's 6 first allies, and their role at Valley Forge in New 7 York. 8 monumental sculpture on display at the Smithsonian 9 Institute -- the Smithsonian Institute's National 10 And the fact that this is based on the Museum of the American Indian. 11 12 And all the designs are beautiful. Again, I think No. 3 would be the Nation's preference. 13 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. 14 very much. 15 questions from the Committee? Are there any further comments or 16 MS. WARREN: 17 THE CHAIRMAN: 18 Joe, if you would. 19 MR. MENNA: 20 21 22 Thank you Joe Menna has his hand up. Oh, okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is Joe Menna. One thing that I neglected to say about design 3, is in addition to the -- in addition to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 125 1 modifying the scales and the heights. As opposed to 2 President Washington evaluating the corn in his hand 3 as if he's evaluating Ms. Cooper, we put the corn in 4 Ms. Cooper's hand, and she's presenting it to him. 5 That also changes the dynamic right 6 there, and gives her the power. 7 visually impactful, but even symbolically, change the 8 dynamic that way, if -- if changes are wanted, that 9 is. Thank you. 10 11 THE CHAIRMAN: Chris, I believe you had your hand raised. 14 15 Joe, thank you very much. 12 13 So we would make it DR. CAPOZZOLA: All right. This is Chris Capozzola. 16 This is a question, I think, for the 17 liaisons. I have been learning a lot about Polly 18 Cooper in the last few weeks. 19 remains very uncertain to me is how old she was at the 20 time of Valley Forge. 21 known. 22 I -- wonder if the oral traditions can shed any light And one thing that And maybe this is just not It certainly wasn't in any of the sources. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 126 1 on that. 2 3 THE CHAIRMAN: I welcome any of our liaisons. 4 Ms. Desiderio? 5 MS. DESIDERIO: I do not have an 6 indication of how old she was at that time. 7 THE CHAIRMAN: 8 Ms. Cornelius, Ms. Belmonte; do you have any idea? 9 I believe that is a no. 10 MS. CORNELIUS: 11 THE CHAIRMAN: 12 All right. Are there any other questions or comments from the Committee? 15 All right, Dennis. 16 MR. TUCKER: 17 Thank you very much. 13 14 I do not. This is Dennis Tucker. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 18 I just wanted to take a quick moment to 19 emphasize that -- and maybe comfort some of our 20 committee members who are worried about the busyness 21 of design 1. 22 If you look at the amount of detail in, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 127 1 for example, the Jim Thorpe Native American Dollar in 2 2018, American Indians in Space in 2019, and the Ely 3 Parker coin in 2022, where you can see every button on 4 his uniform. 5 to do amazing things with detail. 6 The Mint's artistic staff, they're able And as Joe said, you know, No. 1 can be 7 modified to expand the scale of the figures in the 8 background if that helped. 9 don't -- don't be scared of the small canvas of the 10 dollar coin. 11 So I -- I would just say You can really pack in a lot of detail. And, Donald, I think the fact that this 12 is a coin that will go almost straight to collectors, 13 you know, this is not something that people will be 14 looking at in their pocket change and be confused by 15 it. 16 numismatic object. 17 not an issue. They will be seeking it out and studying it as a 18 So I -- I think the small size is For No. 7, I would -- I would just 19 point out that this is almost completely without 20 context. 21 here. 22 cook. She could be -- she could be doing anything She could be a housekeeper; she could be a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 128 1 It's obverse 1 that really puts her in 2 the context of Valley Forge very dramatically. 3 me, I think it's the strongest design choice. 4 you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity. 5 6 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank Dennis, thank you very much. 7 Is there any further discussion? 8 All right. 9 So for Well, hearing none, the Committee will now score the reverse candidate designs 10 for the 2026 Native American $1 Coin. 11 have your score sheets in front of you. 12 Y'all should And, Mike, you should have yours 13 electronically. 14 them to CCAC counsel, Greg Weinman, who will tally the 15 scores and present the results. 16 17 And when you are done, please return We shall take a five-minute break, and be back at quarter to 1:00. 18 (Off the record.) 19 MS. WARREN: 20 11:45, according to my time. 21 to the Chair. 22 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. We are back. It is And I'm handing it back All right. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Thank you. Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 129 1 We are back. 2 Before I recognize Greg Weinman for the 3 scores, I would like to ask Ms. Cornelius, who I 4 believe I cut off, for an answer to the question about 5 the age of Polly Cooper at the time of Valley Forge. 6 7 Ms. Cornelius, if you would like to make your comment? 8 9 MS. CORNELIUS: She would've probably been in her late-60s. 10 11 Okay. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Very good. Thank you very much. 12 All right. So I now recognize Greg 13 Weinman, counsel to the CCAC, to present the results 14 from the scoring sheets. 15 MR. WEINMAN: Once again, out of a 16 possible 30 points, design No. 1 received 16. 17 received one. 18 five. 19 four points. 20 received six points. 21 it the high vote getter. 22 No. 9 received two points. No. 3 received 13. No. 4A received five points. No. 2 No. 4 received No. 5 received No. 6 received nine points. No. 6A No. 7 received 22 points, making No. 8 received three points. No. 11 received two www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 130 1 points. 2 points. 3 4 11A received 2 points. THE CHAIRMAN: And 12 received two All right. Thank you, Greg. 5 Are there any motions? 6 John. 7 MR. SAUNDERS: I would move that we 8 recommend the high vote getter, with the caveat that 9 in design 2 -- or excuse me, design 3, when George 10 Washington is redesigned, that that be considered 11 also. 12 THE CHAIRMAN: So the motion is to 13 recommend design 7, but in addition, to recommend 14 design 3 if there are changes made to the design? 15 16 17 MR. SAUNDERS: That they consider -- they consider that we be mindful of designs. THE CHAIRMAN: I would recommend that 18 we proceed on one design at a time. 19 might be a little bit better, as a way to go forward. 20 So would you like to recast that motion? 21 22 MR. SAUNDERS: I think that that I don't know how to do it, with -- with -- when deciding on -- I -- I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 131 1 think -- let's see what other people think about my 2 suggestion, and then we'll figure out how to make it a 3 proper motion. 4 THE CHAIRMAN: 5 Dennis, would you like to comment? 6 MR. TUCKER: 7 Yeah. All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 8 9 Okay. This is Dennis Tucker. I'm -- I'm not comfortable, personally, recommending No. 7, although 10 I understand that the Committee likes -- likes this 11 particular design. 12 weight on the text. 13 really tell the story here. 14 the visual context that -- that No. 1 has or No. 3, 15 both of which were strong -- were strong preferences 16 or preferences of our liaisons and our Nations who 17 advised us. 18 I think it really puts too much The text in this design has to It's -- it doesn't have So I -- I would need some convincing on 19 No. 7. I -- I just -- I don't -- I see the appeal of 20 it from the numismatic aesthetics viewpoint, but I 21 don't see the symbolism, the strength of symbolism. 22 don't see the storytelling. I -- I think it's a -- a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 132 1 weak design in those senses. 2 THE CHAIRMAN: 3 Harcourt. 4 DR. FULLER: 5 All right. Thank you. Thank you. This is Harcourt Fuller. 6 Let's see. What do we do in a case 7 like this where the majority has spoken and 8 recommended a design that is different than the 9 designs preferred by the liaisons? 10 I guess it's a question. 11 THE CHAIRMAN: 12 DR. FULLER: The -Especially -- I'm sorry -- 13 given what Dennis has just said. 14 spoken, so what do we do? 15 THE CHAIRMAN: But the majority has My understanding is that 16 No. 7 was the preference of, not necessarily the 17 liaisons that we have with us today, but was a 18 preference of some of the other organizations that 19 have been involved in the process. 20 Is that correct, April? 21 MS. STAFFORD: 22 some clarity. So to try to bring in So we have the Oneida Nation and the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 133 1 Oneida Indian Nation that have weighed in. 2 was the single design identified by the Oneida Indian 3 Nation. 4 Oneida Nation, who also had designs 1, 6, and 7. 5 Design 3 It was also one of several identified by the And of course, as you are all aware, we 6 have three congressional committees that are that 7 are -- we legislated to consult with. 8 designs that the Oneida Nation and Oneida Indian 9 Nation identified were amongst those preferred by 10 those -- those committees. 7 and 3 were among those. 11 THE CHAIRMAN: 12 MS. WARREN: 13 THE CHAIRMAN: 14 MS. WARREN: 15 All right. Peter? Yeah. Mike Moran has his hand raised. 16 THE CHAIRMAN: 17 Would you like to -- 18 MR. WEINMAN: 19 And so, those Okay. Yeah, let me make a comment first on this -- this report. The -- 20 MR. MORAN: May I? 21 THE REPORTER: Sure, go ahead. 22 THE CHAIRMAN: Sorry. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 134 1 Mike, go ahead. 2 MR. MORAN: 3 THE CHAIRMAN: 4 MS. WARREN: 5 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 6 MR. MORAN: 7 We can hear you, yes. Yes. It's time for another -- I THE CHAIRMAN: Would you like to make a comment before -- 10 11 Yeah, we can. move we approve No. 7. 8 9 Can you hear me? MR. WEINMAN: Can I make a comment first? 12 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah. Mike, before we 13 proceed with that motion, Greg would like to make a 14 comment. 15 MR. WEINMAN: -- disappointment that 16 you mentioned. 17 tool for you. 18 clarity to the tool that was used. 19 when we used to print this out, and hand it out. 20 so, let me offer -- that I think may offer some help 21 in this decision. 22 It's important that the scoring is a And I want to give a little more And it was a time And For No. 7, there was only one member www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 135 1 that didn't score it any points. 2 of the members -- six of you gave it 3s. 3 for design No. 1, there were one, two, three four 4 members that didn't score any points. 5 only three of the numbers that gave it 3. 6 And there were six By contrast, And there were So I think this -- it's more than 7 just -- so there is a -- I should give you a little 8 bit of clarity as to how the Committee scored it. 9 And -- 10 MR. SAUNDERS: How did 3 come out? 11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 12 MR. WEINMAN: 3? There was one, two, 13 three, four members gave it no points. 14 members gave it 3s. 15 16 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, No. 3? All right. And two Thank you very much. 17 So we have a motion from Mike Moran to 18 approve, or to recommend reverse candidate design No. 19 7. Is there a second? 20 21 22 MR. BERNSTEIN: Art Bernstein would second that. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 We have a Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 136 1 2 3 second from Art Bernstein. All those in favor, or is there any further discussion or debate about this? 4 John. 5 MR. SAUNDERS: Kind of -- it's a 6 question to the Mint, and to Greg, and to everybody. 7 Would an alternative action where we recommend that 8 the Mint give us back the slightly designs of 1 and 3 9 that Joe talked about, and then reconsider it at the 10 11 next meeting, just between those three things? Or for both the timing and practical 12 ways, is that not a good choice, or not something that 13 would be appropriate for us to do? 14 MS. STAFFORD: We can request that. 15 THE CHAIRMAN: April has suggested that 16 this could be a possibility. 17 Harcourt. 18 DR. FULLER: 19 THE CHAIRMAN: 20 MR. HOARD: Why don't you go first? Or, Kellen. My question, as part of the 21 coverage of the motion. I'm wondering if the liaison 22 is going to speak to whether they feel that 7 captures www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 137 1 the full story that you're hoping to tell with this 2 coin. 3 MS. DESIDERIO: I want to start by 4 saying I respect your process and whatever decision 5 you make. 6 they -- to tell the story. 7 The Oneida Indian Nation is still honored So before I answer that, if I might 8 comment. I -- I worked at Senate Committee on Indian 9 Affairs, followed by National Congress of American 10 Indians before, you know, representing Tribes in a -- 11 in a private capacity. 12 time, as we do talk about the -- the weighing in of 13 those committees and that organization is that there 14 wasn't any outreach to the Oneida Indian Nation of New 15 York. 16 What I found unusual this When I was there, we made sure that we 17 consulted with the tribes right away, and first got 18 their input, right, before, kind of, sending the 19 recommendation back to the Mint. 20 think if -- if they had done that, we probably all 21 would have been a little bit more in sync on our 22 recommendations. And you know, I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 138 1 I -- I think this is a beautiful coin. 2 I think for some of the reasons that you all have 3 expertise in how a coin will present itself, I 4 understand the aesthetics of -- of the coin. 5 don't know if it tells the story. 6 emphasizing that it was the Oneida Indian Nation, and 7 Chief Shenandoah, and their actions that led Polly 8 Cooper; right? 9 little bit more inclusive of, you know, as I keep 10 I -- I And I think So I -- I'd like something that's a saying, the Nation-to-Nation; right? 11 And you know, I think that this is 12 beautiful, but it doesn't tell the story of the ally; 13 right? 14 the formation of the United States. The ally that the Oneida Indian Nation was to 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you very much. Ms. Cornelius, would you like to comment on that as well? MS. CORNELIUS: I agree with what the previous woman had said. MS. STAFFORD: just clarify for the process. And, Mr. Chair, if I can The three congressional www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 139 1 committees, they actually did not provide their 2 preferences until they received the input from the 3 Oneida Nation and Oneida Indian Nation. 4 have that prior to making their -- weighed in. 5 THE CHAIRMAN: 6 Ms. Belmonte, would you like to make a 7 MS. BELMONTE: 9 Yes. Thank you. And same, I -- I agree with what Denise just said. 11 12 Thank you. comment? 8 10 All right. So they did THE CHAIRMAN: very much. Thank you We do have a -- 13 Dennis. 14 MR. TUCKER: 15 Dennis Tucker. 16 motion. 17 All right. I -- I apologize. This is I've actually lost track of the THE CHAIRMAN: The motion is to approve 18 obverse -- or reverse design candidate No. 7, and 19 it -- 20 MR. TUCKER: 21 THE CHAIRMAN: 22 MR. TUCKER: Recommend it, yeah. Yeah, recommend that. Are we still in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 140 1 discussion? 2 THE CHAIRMAN: 3 MR. TUCKER: Yes, but -As part of the discussion 4 on that, I would say that I like John's idea of having 5 1 and 3 come back with the modifications that Joe 6 Menna spelled out because I think that those would 7 strengthen our portfolio, and -- and focus it. 8 THE CHAIRMAN: 9 MR. TUCKER: 10 THE CHAIRMAN: 12 consider No. 7. 13 And then, go from there. 14 And then, maybe we can The motion is though, to So why don't we first vote on that? MR. TUCKER: My -- my question though, only as discussion hopefully steered you away from -- 16 THE CHAIRMAN: 17 MR. TUCKER: 18 Well -- consider 1, 3, and 7. 11 15 All right. Right. -- where we're going to. Thank you. 19 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. 20 MS. STAFFORD: Mr. Chairman, sorry. 21 Just -- we're having just a quick conversation. 22 Mint staff would absolutely be able to support that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 The Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 141 1 motion in -- in the pursuit of having the information 2 in -- in front of you to -- to make a recommendation 3 to revise those designs and bring them back for your 4 review. 5 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. I don't take that 6 as a friendly amendment thought to this -- to this 7 motion. 8 9 MR. TUCKER: No, I -- I was presenting that only as a -- 10 THE CHAIRMAN: 11 MR. TUCKER: 12 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: THE CHAIRMAN: Supporting this motion. Right. 17 18 Supporting this motion. 15 16 -- a way to discourage people from -- 13 14 As a possible -- All right. Why don't we vote on the motion that is on the table? 19 All those in favor, say "aye." 20 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 21 THE CHAIRMAN: 22 Aye. All those opposed, "nay." www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 142 1 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 2 THE CHAIRMAN: 3 Nay. The motion has failed. Are there any other further motions? 4 MR. SAUNDERS: I -- I would move -- 5 this is John Saunders. I -- I would move my original 6 motion that I didn't know how to -- to phrase properly 7 at the time, to be exactly what Dennis just said. 8 That we ask the Mint to revise design 1 and 2, and 9 that we have an abbreviated discussion, and just vote 10 between the three of them at our next meeting, or do 11 it by mail if the next meeting is too far away to 12 narrow it to those three choices, and proceed forward. 13 THE CHAIRMAN: To make clear, do you 14 mean obverse design 1 and 3, or obverse design 1 and 15 2? 16 MS. WARREN: 17 THE CHAIRMAN: 18 21 22 Or, I'm sorry. Reverse design 1 and 3 -- 19 20 Reverse. MR. SAUNDERS: misspeak. 1 and 3. Sometimes I I'm in the wrong century. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. So my understanding is that the motion is to reconsider 1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 143 1 and 3 as possibilities with further amendments or 2 additions -- 3 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 4 THE CHAIRMAN: 5 Modifications at a -- at a future date; is that correct? 8 9 MR. SAUNDERS: Along with 7, as well. THE CHAIRMAN: Well, we've already We -- we -- 10 11 -- at a -- at a future date. 6 7 Modifications. voted on 7, so -- 12 MR. SAUNDERS: Well, we voted not to do 13 it, but I -- I think we looked at the revised 1, 3, 14 and 7 as it is. 15 from next time. And those were three choices to pick 16 THE CHAIRMAN: 17 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 18 highest vote getters. 19 20 Well -- The three We can -- we can do that. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Is there a second to that motion? 21 22 All right. MR. TUCKER: Dennis Tucker. second that. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I would Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 144 1 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. 2 Kellen, you had a comment? 3 MR. HOARD: Just a friendly amendment 4 offer as part of those modifications to make sure age 5 accuracy, as well, that was raised. 6 in one, she looks way younger. 7 MR. SAUNDERS: 8 MR. HOARD: 9 10 'Cause at least Is that friendly? I'm sorry? As part of the modifications for the Mint coming back, to make sure Polly's age appropriate. 11 MR. SAUNDERS: Right. Would be -- we 12 talked about the size, and we talked about -- Joe -- 13 Joe described what the modifications were, being 14 the -- the ear of corn in Polly's hand. 15 though George is 6-foot plus, and she's not 6-foot 16 plus, then there's some modification in terms of 17 height and presentation. 18 19 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. So you accept that friendly amendment? 20 MR. SAUNDERS: Yes. 21 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. 22 And even discussion? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Any other Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 145 1 2 All right. Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion, please signify by saying "aye." 3 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 4 THE CHAIRMAN: 5 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 6 MR. MORAN: 7 voted on. 8 9 10 Aye. Any opposed? Me. No. Opposed; it's been It's done. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Are you going to take a -THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, I think we need to 11 take a roll call, or a hand count. 12 favor, please signify by raising your hand. 13 All those opposed? 14 MR. MORAN: 15 THE CHAIRMAN: 16 four; the motion carries. So all those in Opposed. All right. All right. It is six to Thank you. 17 Any other further discussion? 18 All right. 19 MR. MORAN: 20 We have just designed -- and in my 21 22 Yes. The -- this is Mike. opinion, we've set a bad precedence going forward. THE CHAIRMAN: All right. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Well, thank Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 146 1 you. 2 3 UNIDENTIFIED: Can you repeat that please? 4 MS. WARREN: Can you repeat it, Mike? 5 And wait for a second, so I can mute. 6 won't have the feedback. And then, it 7 MR. MORAN: All right. 8 MS. WARREN: 9 MR. MORAN: 10 a bad precedence by design by committee. 11 sorry that we did this. Go. In my opinion, we just set And I'm 12 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mike. 13 MR. SCARINCI: Mike is right -- Mike is 14 right. We voted; we did -- we did it the way we do 15 every coin. 16 votes when a handful of people disagree with them, 17 then we're just never going to -- the meetings are 18 never going to end. And if we're going to start revisiting 19 MR. TUCKER: This is Dennis Tucker. 20 I have to disagree with that. I mean, 21 we have always used the voting system as a tool rather 22 than something that sets policy or -- or cements our www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 147 1 recommendations to the Secretary. 2 for portfolios to be redesigned before. 3 4 DR. FULLER: And we have asked Mr. Chair, I think this is a very -- this is Harcourt Fuller. 5 I think this is a very important moment 6 for the Committee as well as for the public. What 7 Mike said, I think -- and also Donald, I think needs 8 to be addressed, because we want the public to be 9 confident in our process that we are not subverting 10 our process by voting and then change -- and then, 11 over -- overriding that. 12 But I also want to say, on this 13 occasion, I -- I feel strongly on this occasion -- and 14 maybe I'm contradicting myself -- that we should 15 listen to the liaisons. 16 do not -- they would rather have a 1 or a 3. 17 All three liaisons here today And so, I'm kind of -- I would like 18 to -- I feel like on one hand, I want to honor how we 19 voted, for the lack of a better term. 20 other hand, I can see that the liaisons, if I may say 21 so, are not pleased. 22 that. But on the And I do not know how we resolve www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 148 1 Sorry I don't have a solution. 2 THE CHAIRMAN: I would like to thank 3 all of the Committee members for their comments on 4 this. 5 with -- with the way that this -- this was handled. 6 But one of the concerns -- thank you. And I understand the displeasure with the -- 7 But -- sorry. 8 One of the concerns that I do have with 9 I'll just turn that off. this portfolio particularly, is the complexity with 10 the number of legislative committees, as well as the 11 number of liaisons, and the rest that have weighed in 12 on this particular portfolio. 13 this case, especially the comments that we have heard 14 from our liaisons today, especially, do have to be 15 taken into consideration. 16 And I do think that in And -- and I do feel that, in this case 17 especially, that there -- there has been movement in, 18 perhaps, the right direction in that case. 19 that this was a difficult portfolio, one that I in 20 fact anticipated some difficulty with. 21 22 So I know But with that said, if there is no further discussion -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 149 1 John. 2 MR. SAUNDERS: I would kind of like to 3 agree with Mike's point, even though it's the opposite 4 of what he did. 5 I think it's -- I don't think this is a 6 precedent. I think it's a special situation, and 7 besides the -- they had two things. 8 liaisons' point of view. 9 Menna saying how he could modify these two designs, One was with the The second thing was Joe 10 during our discussion points, that make this something 11 out of the ordinary. 12 And I certainly don't want to set a 13 precedent of -- of it, but I think, again, this is a 14 special situation. 15 16 17 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you very much. All right. If all the discussion has 18 concluded, let's hope, then I would like to take a 19 moment to express our appreciation again to the 20 liaisons for attending today. 21 Cornelius, Celia Belmonte, and Denise Desiderio for 22 your participation. Thank you, Linn www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 150 1 And we will now take a lunch break, and 2 we will return at 2:00 p.m. to continue the rest of 3 today's agenda. 4 5 Thank you very much. MS. WARREN: Okay. recess. 6 (Off the record.) 7 MS. WARREN: 8 We are now in Okay. It is 2:00 o'clock, and I'm going to hand it over to the CCAC Chair. 9 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. We are back 10 from recess. 11 review and discussion of the obverse and reverse 12 candidate designs for the 2025 American Liberty 13 24-Karat Gold Coin and Silver Medal. 14 The next item on the agenda is our And before I turn it over to April, and 15 Roger Vasquez, and Russ Evans to present the 16 portfolio, I do want to mention something that has 17 been brought to my attention, which is that we do not 18 necessarily have to recommend the same designs, 19 obverse and reverse, for both the silver medal and the 20 gold coin. 21 for the coin and for the medal, which would be a break 22 from tradition, but considering the size and We can, in fact, have two distinct designs www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 151 1 complexity of this portfolio, it is something that we 2 might want to consider. 3 4 So I am happy now, to turn it over to the members of the ODM to present the portfolio. 5 April, if you would, please. 6 MS. STAFFORD: 7 The United States Mint launched the Thank you. 8 American Liberty 24-Karat High Relief Gold Coin and 9 Silver Medal Program in 2015. The Secretary of the 10 Treasury authorized the program based on the Mint's 11 statutory authority to issue gold coins and silver 12 medals. 13 modern depictions of liberty on the obverse, and an 14 eagle, American eagle, on the reverse. 15 Mint will issue a 1-ounce 24-karat gold coin, and a 16 .999 fine silver medal. 17 Designs for this biannual program feature For 2025, the So we'll move through the obverse 18 candidate designs first. Required inscriptions for 19 the gold coin obverse designs are "Liberty," "In God 20 We Trust," and "2025." 21 obverse will have "2025," with the optional 22 inscription of "Liberty." The corresponding silver medal www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 152 1 Designs are presented side by side in 2 both their gold coin and silver medal versions. 3 Because many of the obverse designs have corresponding 4 reverse designs, the first number in the name 5 indicates the artist. 6 name, the last one you see, indicates its sequence in 7 the portfolio. 8 9 The second number in the design As we move through the designs, I will only refer to the design number. Should any committee 10 member want to see an obverse and reverse option 11 together, side by side, please let us know, and we 12 will accommodate that. 13 So moving through the obverses, we'll 14 start with design 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 15 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 16 25, 25A, 26, and 27. 17 Moving to the reverse candidate 18 designs, all reverses depict an American eagle. 19 Required inscriptions for the gold coin are, "The 20 United States of America," "E Pluribus Unum," 1-ounce, 21 .999 fine gold, and the denomination $100. 22 The corresponding silver medal may www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 153 1 optionally include the inscription, "United States of 2 America." 3 gold coin and silver medal versions. Again, designs are presented in both their 4 Reverse 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 5 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, and 6 finally 23. That concludes the candidate designs. 7 8 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you very much, April. 9 Are there any technical or legal 10 questions from the Committee about this program or the 11 designs for the 2025 American Liberty 24-Karat Gold 12 Coin and Silver Medal before we being our discussion? 13 Silence. 14 MR. SCARINCI: I -- 15 THE CHAIRMAN: Donald, yes. 16 MR. SCARINCI: I heard of one -- 17 THE CHAIRMAN: Just a moment. 18 MR. SCARINCI: Oh, I'm sorry. 19 Donald Scarinci. 20 This is bold, and new, and fascinating, 21 and visionary. And I would really, before we all 22 start talking -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 154 1 If, Joe, if you wouldn't mind, kind of 2 giving a preference for, you know, the big picture 3 in -- in your sense. 4 vision for, you know -- for, you know, 21st century 5 coinage, and you know, the new. 6 if you'd be willing to share that with us, and to give 7 us a little direction, you know, before we all start 8 talking about this portfolio, you know, without that 9 knowledge. 10 11 12 I know you have an artistic MR. MENNA: too much credit, Donald. And -- and I wondered Well, you're giving me way Thank you for the kindness. This is Joseph Menna. It was the grace 13 that the Office of Design Management and -- and Greg 14 Weinman, the founder of the AIP Program offered me in 15 helping -- expanding outreach to artists from 16 different disciplines than we normally have. 17 always had great artists, but we went out to artists 18 in diff artistic communities. 19 And it's And -- and it's the artists themselves 20 that are driving this. No -- I -- I cannot take any 21 credit for anything that is special about this 22 portfolio other than helping the process with www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 155 1 procurement, with legal, with office design management 2 to reach out to street artists, to reach out to 3 lowbrow pop surrealist artists, to reach out to comic 4 book artists, to reach out to tattoo artists. 5 So you have a whole different group of 6 artists, including our traditional artists, who are 7 all awesome as well. 8 artistic talent, I think the Mint has ever had. 9 And -- and it reveals itself in this portfolio. 10 That's all I would say. 11 12 It's the biggest range of No credit to me though, Donald. Seriously. 13 MR. SCARINCI: Very modest. 14 THE CHAIRMAN: Joe, thank you very much 15 for that insight into the range of artists that have 16 put together this very large portfolio. 17 Do we have any other questions or 18 comments before we begin? 19 All right. Before we begin our 20 consideration, I do want to acknowledge the fact that 21 this is a very, very large portfolio, with 27 obverses 22 and 23 reverses to consider. We will be here all day www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 156 1 and night if each of us takes the required time, I 2 would think, to go over all of the designs. 3 ask each of you, please, to try to keep to the five 4 minutes, and to try to highlight those designs that 5 you think work best, and offer any other comments that 6 you might think are appropriate for this rather broad 7 range of material. 8 9 That said, Donald, let's begin with you. 10 11 So I will MR. SCARINCI: okay. Oh, it's joyous. So -- Where do I even start? 12 I guess, you know, we -- we need to, 13 for this series, and this is -- and this is our 14 series; right? 15 is the American Liberty Gold. 16 think what we are -- what we -- let's go back to the 17 beginning. 18 This is the American -- you know, this And you know, and I What we've tried to do, what we've 19 tried to say is we want to challenge the artists to 20 come up with designs of liberty that are relevant 21 to -- especially to -- to younger people today. 22 you know, the old concepts of the fasces and the, you www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 157 1 know, the shield, those Civil War symbols. 2 we've done the Statue of Liberty, we've done -- we've 3 done all these things. 4 them, and done them to the point where, you know, A, 5 it's saturated, and B, they've lost a lot of their 6 emotional impact. 7 they've lost their emotional impact to -- to a 8 contemporary audience. 9 You know, And we've done them, and done They never lose their meaning, but So the concept of this program is to be 10 bold and creative, and come up with liberty in new, 11 modern ways that we, as, you know, non-artists can't 12 really conceive; right? 13 the pool, which is -- you know, Joe is very modest. 14 mean, because it's a team of people, you know, because 15 he is a great artist. 16 you know, he's looked around and found, you know, 17 artists that could really give us the type of thing 18 we're looking for. It requires the artists in And -- and so he, obviously, 19 And I think Joe is -- I think Joe is 20 really listening to us when we -- you know, I think 21 we're all rowing this boat in the same direction that 22 we want to come up with new ways to give meaning. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 158 1 So my first point is -- is that, you 2 know, it has to be liberty in a new and modern way. 3 And so, my -- my first overall, you know, commentary 4 of the portfolio is those designs that are still using 5 the torch, you know, the bell, you know, or -- or are 6 taking the Statue of Liberty and doing something else 7 with it, which is kind of interesting in some of 8 these -- in some of these designs, I think we're -- I 9 think we're hitting the mark with new and different 10 here. 11 And one way we might be able to do this 12 is what if we were to use the silver medal to do 13 something that's more earthshaking to the American 14 people; right? 15 gold coin; right? 16 high-relief series. 17 may not sell, you know, and then, the marketing 18 department's going to get all upset because it doesn't 19 sell; right? 20 You know, as opposed to a 2023 $100 And so -- so because it's a gold, So that's expensive, you know, it So I'm not sure, but maybe we do a -- 21 one design that's in the series, consistent in the 22 series. Plus, you all -- you all are aware -- if www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 159 1 you're not aware, you should be aware, the American 2 Liberty Gold Coin Design is an award-winning series. 3 Virtually, I think -- I think the majority of the 4 coins we've issued in that series have won 5 international awards; right? 6 regarded. 7 And they're very highly So you know, so I'm wondering if we 8 choose a silver coin, and -- and then, also choose a 9 gold coin. Maybe the two of them -- a silver medal. 10 And the medal could be, like, you know, like, a design 11 like -- like 06. 12 also attracted to 05. 13 coins. You know, I'm attracted to 06. I'm I'm attracted to a lot of these 14 So -- but -- but, you know, and then, 15 maybe the gold coin could be something a little more 16 consistent with what we've done up to now, which is 17 maybe something like 24. 18 you know, the carving -- carving the stone thing, you 19 know, art -- art being made out -- sculpting the art 20 out of stone. 21 or Leonardo who did -- who said that. 22 You know, you've got the -- You know, I think that is Michelangelo And then, on the reverse of that, you www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 160 1 know, we find something -- you know, we find something 2 in the reverse side to go with that. 3 know, a little consistent, you know, with the obverse. 4 And I would assume it's done by the same artist, which 5 would be -- which would be one of the eagles, one of 6 the more traditional-type eagles for the reverse of 7 that. 8 we talk to the artist who did the obverse -- can 9 maybe -- Unless the artist who did the obverse -- unless 10 11 Possibly, you Mike, I know you're cringing over there. I can see you cringing. 12 So -- and then, for the silver one -- 13 MR. MORAN: 14 Well, Don, I was waiting for you -- 15 MR. SCARINCI: Are you cringing? 16 And then, for the silver one, you know, 17 we -- we, you know, we go for something like 06, you 18 know, with that cool -- you know, with that cool 19 reverse with the lettering, the "United States of 20 America" lettering. 21 22 No. 23; something like that. You know, I mean, I'm just throwing it out there as -- as, you know, as ideas. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 There's a lot Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 161 1 here to talk about. 2 it; right? 3 else for now, and we'll come back. So let me -- let me give it to somebody 4 5 I don't even know how to approach THE CHAIRMAN: All right, Donald. We'll come back. Yeah. Thank you very much. 6 Dennis, if you would. 7 MR. TUCKER: 8 And thanks, Donald. 9 really encapsulated things for us. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think you've And I -- I like 10 that idea of having two different styles to approach 11 this; one for the gold, one for the silver medal. 12 I'll talk a bit about the different 13 artists. 14 of artist 3. 15 new look to American numismatics. 16 never been done before on U.S. coins, and it would be 17 an interesting clash of media. 18 I like the comic book style designs, those They're different, and it would bring a That style has I love the fresh, urban energy of 19 artist 2. 20 in recent motifs in lettering. 21 portfolio for 2024 Olympic Games Handover Medal. 22 And we've seen some of this graffiti style For example, the In my opinion, this style needs to be www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 162 1 on a U.S. coin or a National Medal at some point. 2 hesitation here with artist 2, design 2, is this. 3 The -- and Donald talked a bit about this. 4 is fresh, but the Statue of Liberty theme is tired. 5 So I'm -- I'm torn because the art is very strong. 6 Does the overly familiar subject matter weaken the 7 strong art, or is that actually the perfect marriage 8 of old and new? 9 don't know the answer. 10 My The style That's a good question for me; I Artist 5, I think, is onto something 11 with the dandelions carried on the wind, and 12 flourishing under stress. 13 and the use of the medium is perfect, telling a story 14 across two sides of the coin or the medal. 15 The art here is compelling, Artist 6 has the start of an excellent 16 coin with the sunflower and the bee. 17 that paired with a reverse that does the art justice, 18 and takes it home the way artist 5 does with the 19 dandelions. 20 I'd like to see Artist 6's swirling eagle reverse, 21 which is reverse 12, is amazing. 22 me of an eastern, or Asian dragon. And it -- it reminds It's very active, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 163 1 and I want to see that on a medal or coin at some 2 point. 3 Artist 8. My remarks to artist 8 would 4 be, "Keep at this." I like your use of textures, and 5 patterns, and motion in your obverses. 6 MS. STAFFORD: Can we -- I'm sorry. 7 May I ask, is it appropriate if we 8 concentrate on one design at a time? 9 okay, so can we take away the doubles? 10 Would that -- And can we decide on a convention, just 11 for the discussion, whether we refer to the design 12 number or the artist number? 13 is -- can be confusing. 14 them, I used the design number, but -- Only because I think it I know when I read through 15 MR. TUCKER: 16 MS. STAFFORD: Oh. -- we're also 17 fine -- we're also fine to use artist number. 18 want to make sure that as we're flipping, we're 19 matching. 20 I just So is there a preference? MR. TUCKER: Well, I -- I -- as I went 21 through the designs and made my notes, I was thinking 22 of them in terms of the artist. So I'm -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 164 1 MS. STAFFORD: The -- okay. So just 2 for everyone's reference, the artist is the first 3 number you see in the design. 4 MR. TUCKER: 5 MS. STAFFORD: 6 MR. TUCKER: Yeah. Okay, thank you. So artist 8 is the one 7 with Lady Liberty, whose robe has evolved into old, 8 abstract patterns -- there we are. 9 use of textures, and patterns, and motion. I -- I like that I don't 10 think that these are the strongest work for the 11 numismatic canvas, but I do want to see some more 12 along these lines. 13 obverse designs. 14 And artist 8 was 15 and 16 for the Artist 12, I think we've seen before. 15 That would be designs 21, 22, 23 for the obverse. 16 Artist 12 has created some outstanding work that 17 hearkens back to traditional numismatic motifs, like 18 the French Sower, or Adolph Weinman's "Walking 19 Liberty," but crafted with fresh eyes and a modern 20 touch. 21 But I think we've seen these before -- 22 I think we've seen some -- some of this work in other www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 165 1 portfolios. 2 symbolism, but it's given with new energy and life, 3 not to mention books and kids. 4 and I have an 8-year-old daughter, Ava. 5 lot in this that's very appealing to me. 6 There's a -- there's old-fashioned I'm a book publisher, So there's a Artist 12 is the creator of my favorite 7 design in this portfolio. And maybe -- maybe I should 8 modify that and say, for the gold. 9 looking at these two different approaches. You know, if we're My 10 personal recommendation for the 2025 program for the 11 gold, would be obverse 25, which is the Wild American 12 Bison. 13 The style reminds me of Beth Zaiken's 14 2021 design for same American Liberty Program. 15 American Mustang was an international award winner. 16 It was featured on the cover of the Red Book. 17 Her And this American Bison has the same 18 exciting energy and the same uniquely American 19 symbolism. 20 collector as the animal on the Buffalo Nickel, of 21 course, and no other country could use this design to 22 symbolize liberty. The American Bison is known to every coin This is as American as it gets. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 166 1 Quickly, to summarize; I apologize for 2 taking so long. 3 exquisite. 4 Artist 12's eagle reverses are And, April, I'll have you scroll to 5 them. 6 American numismatics, there's a long tradition of 7 combining olive branches with arrows to symbolize 8 peace and military strength. 9 them combined in this way with a nest built out of 10 both. Reverse 19, to me, is the strongest. In But we've never seen To me, this is outstanding. 11 The inclusion of an eaglet brings up 12 all the wonderful symbolism of Miley Frost's Family of 13 Eagles on the American Gold Eagle bullion coins, so 14 there's another connection to tradition. 15 So in my opinion, for the gold, artist 16 12's obverse 25 and reverse 19 make a winning 17 combination. 18 experimental -- maybe something like the -- the 19 graffiti-style, of artist 2's obverse 2. 20 bigger discussion -- 21 22 For the silver, we can get the more THE CHAIRMAN: All right. thank you very much. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 But that's a Dennis, Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 167 1 John, if you would. 2 MR. SAUNDERS: 3 For the obverse design, Dennis just John Saunders here. 4 stole a lot of my thunder. 5 really liked there. 6 think breaking the fence in the next one adds 7 anything. 8 was hands-on favorite. 9 I -- there was only one I It's the 25C, artist 12. I think it actually detracts. I don't I mean, that I'll make a couple comments about some 10 of the others real quick. 11 expression; it looks very much too harsh for No. 1. 12 I'm going to talk about design numbers here, rather 13 than artist numbers. 14 I didn't like the No. 2, I liked the graffiti look. I 15 didn't quite like Madam Liberty's jaw, but I wouldn't 16 mind seeing 2 on a silver dollar. 17 separate. 18 I didn't -- it was 3 and 4, I didn't get completely. I 19 didn't like 5; it looked like an Egyptian pharaoh, or 20 "pharaohess," holding the thing. 21 22 I like 6. 7 was okay. the jaw of Liberty seems awfully wide. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Both 6 and 7, I liked 9. It Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 168 1 is a Liberty Bell, but I still like it. I thought 10 2 and 11 were kind of cute. 3 that's symbolizes liberty, but it's -- it was a cool 4 design. 12, sunflower; I'm not sure I liked it. 5 I liked 13 okay. 14, I really liked 6 the design. Again, I'm not sure it symbolizes 7 liberty, having an -- an oak leaf there, with the 8 acorn. But it -- I like the design. 9 The next two, I didn't particularly 10 like. 11 18, I didn't really get. 12 traditional, but I kind of like 19 and 20. 13 know how it would come out in coin. 14 24 was okay, but in my mind, 25 just wins. 15 like the, kind of, taught, drawn face of 26 and 27 for 16 Ms. Liberty. 17 Going onto the next page, 17. It was okay. 19 is kind of -- kind of I don't And I liked 22. I didn't In terms of reverses, if you were going 18 with the obverse 2, the -- the 23, the eagle with the 19 interesting letters looked nice. 20 through some comments on -- I didn't really 21 particularly like 1 or 2. 22 German coins to me. But again, going 3 and 4 look too much like 5, I don't particularly like. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 169 1 didn't like. 6, it looks like the eagle's going 2 straight into the ground, like a plane that's 3 crashing. I didn't like that at all. 4 7 or 8 are kind of Germanic again, but 5 okay. 6 once you see what it is, it's kind of neat. 7 one of my favorites. 8 think my favorite is 14 though. 9 eagle. 10 9 was kind of okay. 10, I liked. 12 is -13 was It's kind of traditional. I I like the soaring So I -- I think hugely, if we went with the buffalo, I would like the soaring eagle reverse of 14. 11 15's nice. 16's okay. I don't really 12 get 17. 13 it's -- it's, you know, the Mexican eagle holding the 14 snake there. 15 was okay. 16 did. 17 18 looks too much like Mexico. I mean, The eagle -- so that was out for me. I didn't get turned on as much as Dennis 20 was okay. 21, I like. 22, I think 18 the eagle's head gets lost in its wings, so I didn't 19 like that particularly. 20 favorite was 14. 21 22 19 And 23 was okay, but my THE CHAIRMAN: All right. very much, John. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Thank you Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 170 1 Dr. Harcourt Fuller. 2 DR. FULLER: 3 Thank you. This is Harcourt Fuller. 4 First of all, this is a really great 5 portfolio. 6 inclusivity. 7 of the artist pool. 8 great. 9 lot of things that I wanted to say, but let me just 10 I do like the boldness, and I do like the I like the fact -- I like the diversity I think it's really, really And I think my colleagues have already said a start with obverse 2. 11 I think it's -- it's about time, and 12 it's really great to see a graffiti lettering, if you 13 will, you know, on -- on a coin. 14 fan of the rigidness of Liberty's face. 15 a tin -- you know, like, a tin -- tin person type of 16 design. 17 obverse as far as the Liberty is concerned. 18 And then, I really liked 11. I -- I'm not a big It looks like But I -- that's probably my favorite on the Yes, I 19 think it's really cool from -- yeah, just -- I like -- 20 I mean, that -- is that a wave? 21 check that. 22 liked 11. Let me just double I want to just -- yeah. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Yeah, I -- I Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 171 1 I really like 12. I do see Liberty in 2 12. You know, when I look at a sunflower, it just 3 opens up. 4 it's -- it's, you know, not how you would typically 5 see Liberty, of course, depicted; so I really like 6 that. 7 it's always good. Children also love sunflowers in my opinion, so 8 9 It's -- it's freedom, it's inviting, and And then, if we could go to -- I really like 24. It's almost as if Lady Liberty is sculpting 10 herself out of, you know, the rock. And I think it's 11 a really unique design. And then, 25 -- 12 25C, and -- yeah. 13 designs as well. 14 All right. I -- I -- that's one of my favorite It's very bold. Yeah. On the reverses, let's go with 1. 15 want to see 1 again. 16 this reminds of a fighter jet coming in guns blazing. 17 But that's kind of what I see when I see that, so I 18 kind of like that. 19 20 21 22 I don't know. I For some reason, And then, if we go with 8; did you say it looked Germanic? MR. SAUNDERS: I think -- I think at the two above, these -- these four look Germanic. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 172 1 DR. FULLER: Germanic, yeah. 2 of like -- like those in a sense. 3 see. I do kind And then, let me I'm going to wrap up real quickly. 4 The 13C is a winner for me. I -- I 5 mean, I -- even though it's kind of classic, but I 6 just like the fact that you have this focused gaze. 7 So I like that. 8 9 Now, I'll stop right there. Congratulations to the artists. 10 11 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, Dr. Fuller. 12 Kellen Hoard. 13 MR. HOARD: 14 I really like this array of designs. 15 Whatever the Mint was doing with selecting artists, 16 they did it right. 17 Well, thank you. Keep doing it. I was drawn, really, to 2. You know, I 18 think that is, I really -- to answer Dennis's question 19 about whether you can marry old and new, I think the 20 answer's "yes" with the design. 21 say that is over the last week, I've asked, generally, 22 about 30 people under 25, like, "What does liberty And the reason why I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 173 1 look like to you in a modern context?" 2 And a plurality said the Statue of 3 Liberty was what came to mind for them, still, as what 4 they envision liberty to look like and what it should 5 look like furthermore. 6 them thought, "The Statue of Liberty is what I think 7 of, but is it still relevant today?" 8 liberty represent -- transcend, kind of, modern 9 American culture? 10 But at the same time, a lot of Is there -- does And I think this coin answers that question; yes. 11 In that graffiti is an American art 12 from that has -- that transcends into modern culture, 13 it still kind of captures some of those older values 14 back in the 1880s when this was sent over -- 1870s, I 15 guess. 16 and I think it's a neat, eye-catching design that I 17 would like to see -- I'll vote for. 18 So I really think this does marry those two, I also -- even though it's really -- I 19 didn't feel it was a modern -- I really like 1 as 20 well, for the obverse. 21 enough -- it's a beautiful design; it has artistic 22 merit. I don't think that one got I'm not sure I will vote for it 'cause I don't www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 174 1 think it's necessarily modern in the way we're going 2 for. 3 dissect the gold and silver, and you want, kind of, 4 a more of a classical gold one, I think 1 should be 5 considered. But if you want, kind of, if we're trying to 6 I also wanted to raise 22, which I 7 think has already been touched on. 22; really -- I 8 know we've seen this design before. 9 on -- but I think this is the time and the place for I think it's been 10 it. We've seen other portfolios; it hadn't quite fit 11 with those portfolios, but this one it absolutely 12 does. 13 gold, or silver, or both. 14 And again, I'd like to see that on either the So address a couple -- for 24, I don't 15 think we should do 24. 16 disagree with the premise. 17 thing. 18 to perpetuate it; she's not carving herself out. 19 That's the work of Americans, and so, I think that 20 just sends the wrong message. 21 22 At least for me, I just It's not even a design Liberty is not self-perpetuation. People have And on the bison design, I forget the number on that one. That was 25. I would also opt www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 175 1 against the bison for two reasons. 2 talking about motif, that, I feel has been done a lot. 3 The bison is, I think, one that has been, perhaps 4 overdone, including on, you know, nickels, and of 5 multiple kind. 6 One, if we're And also, I just feel like it's a lot 7 of similarity to the 2021 coin with the bucking 8 bronco. 9 It's kind of bucking in place. It feels like another iconic American animal. We have so many other 10 options, even though it's a neat design. 11 take advantage of one that's more distinct. 12 We should And the reverse, 11 was one that stood 13 out. 14 liked the, kind of, the hyperrealism. 15 the dandelion on the other side, but I like, kind of, 16 the swirling aesthetic here. 17 simple, but complex at the same time. 18 that one. 19 So 11 was one that stood out. I just really I don't love I think it -- it's And then, 12 as well. So I would vote I was looking at 20 12 in my dorm last night, and my roommate came by. 21 And he says, "That's the most badass coin design I've 22 ever seen in my life." And he's not a coin collector, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 176 1 but he -- he's like, "I would buy that," basically. 2 Especially if there's -- I mean, he's not going to pay 3 for a gold, but he'll buy the silver. 4 excited about that. 5 He was very He had never seen an eagle like that 6 before. We have a lot of story eagles; we do a lot of 7 eagles standing. 8 way. 9 raise that. What he's not seen, an eagle that He was so excited about that, that I have to And I will vote for that, 'cause I had 10 never seen a person my age who didn't collect coins to 11 be that excited about a coin design. 12 that's a bit -- somewhat indicative of the view of the 13 public. 14 15 And so, I think That's it from me. THE CHAIRMAN: Kellen, thank you very much. 16 Dr. Christopher Capozzola, please. 17 DR. CAPOZZOLA: All right. Thank you 18 to the Committee, to the artists, to the people in the 19 Committee who went before me for tackling this big 20 job. 21 too much. 22 the excuse to watch bison videos over the last couple There's a lot, and so I will try not to repeat Also thanks to whoever it was who gave me www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 177 1 of weeks. In case you were wondering, yes, they do 2 jump, and quite impressively. 3 spare time. 4 All right. Watch that in your I'm going to be referring 5 to design numbers, not to artist numbers. And so, for 6 me, the one that actually -- I do actually like a 7 great deal and that has stuck with me the longest, is 8 24. 9 both pro and con along the way. And you know, which several people have talked to But I do like the, 10 kind of, the way Liberty, as her own -- her own 11 author. 12 technique. A modern depiction of a very classic 13 That is one that I liked. In a very different way, I also really 14 liked No. 2. 15 visual aesthetic and tradition into -- into our 16 coinage, and in a way that is both modern and 17 traditional at the same time. 18 And again, after bringing the -- this I think that the -- I liked the design 19 of 25, the bison, but I think I share, actually, 20 Kellen's concern that we -- the bucking bronco looks 21 an awful lot like this, and that this may not 22 necessarily add much to the series overall. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 178 1 Just to flag a few other ones that I 2 did like; 8 and 9. 3 movement, and -- and an engagement with -- with the 4 person holding it in their hand, I presume coming 5 forward to, but with some very traditional elements. 6 Both -- both have an energy, and a And then, I will say, just a little bit 7 of something for No. 15, which is a very unusual 8 design. 9 the moon, if you play hearts. I think this fits in my category of shoot for That's where you try so 10 much and try so hard that you -- maybe you win the 11 whole thing, and -- and maybe you don't win at all. 12 And I don't know if this is a winner, but I absolutely 13 appreciate the effort, and I love the thinking behind 14 that one. 15 And onto the reverses. I think my 16 reverses may not necessarily match my obverses. But I 17 thought 12, and 12A-C is just really, as others have 18 said, truly remarkable, and something that -- that we 19 need to -- to find a way to put on -- on our coins and 20 medals. 21 not been much discussed. 22 other person addressed this one. And I also thought that 8C, which I think has Although, I think maybe one I really like the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 179 1 way that this used the frame and used the, kind of, 2 creative, visual aesthetic. 3 eagle particularly fresh. 4 than maybe some of the others that people have 5 discussed. 6 7 And this one, less German And with that, I think I'll just cede the rest of my time for future conversation. 8 9 And that that makes this THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much, Chris. 10 Annelisa Purdie. 11 MS. PURDIE: 12 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is Annelisa Purdie. 13 I also want to express my extreme 14 admiration for these designs. 15 designers' bios, and thinking about their process, I 16 would love to sit in a room with each of them, and 17 just pick their brains about how they came up with 18 these. 19 something to them, and it's shown in the way that they 20 expressed their artwork. 21 22 Reading each of the Because it's clear that liberty still means I'm also going to err on the side of brevity, so I will simply go with the ones that stood www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 180 1 out for me the most, by design number. 2 Yorker, I love No. 2. 3 artform. 4 way that Lady Liberty is reworked here to show -- to 5 reach out to those who do have a perception of liberty 6 that also matches with an art form that is important 7 to them, that they love. 9 Graffiti is a legitimate Let that go on the record. 8 As a New And I love the In terms of spacing, it possibly could use some work. Because of the graffiti style of 10 lettering, it tends to be large, but I think this 11 would be a really effective way of reaching out to 12 those who love both, and would like to see a 13 representation of both. 14 Design 12 is amazing in terms of the 15 detail. Very Isaac Watts; "How doth the little busy 16 bee. 17 the way that it shows the patience of Liberty. 18 evokes that feeling of patience, and the process of 19 working behind the scenes. 20 would stand out immediately to the viewer at once, but 21 this is definitely something that does evoke that 22 feeling, and does it well. Improve each shining hour." I love it. I love It I'm not sure that that www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 181 1 25 is one of my favorites. I think 2 this may be the first time that we do see a leaping 3 bison on the coins. 4 may feel that this has been overdone, which is 5 understandable, is because of the staid position of 6 the bison, as we usually see them on coins. 7 that he/she is in action, is reaching through, is in 8 their natural habitat. 9 that's enduring that touches a lot of coin collectors. And one of the reasons why some I love And it's still something 10 And I think that animal lovers as well, and those 11 lovers of the old west would enjoy this two. 12 All-time favorite would have to be 22. 13 Even before reading the description of the process 14 behind making this design, I think it was conveyed 15 excellently. 16 not only drawing the viewer in, but reminding everyone 17 about the importance of liberty between generations, 18 and how it's often fought for in that way. 19 I feel that it does an excellent job of For 15, I also would put this into 20 something that warrants -- warrants merit. 21 concept, as I understood the description of the 22 concept of representing the turrets of Lady Liberty's www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I like the Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 182 1 dress. I'm not sure that it's executed that well on 2 the coin. 3 because she's far back from the viewer. 4 tweaking, I don't know, but there's still something 5 about this that caught my interest that has some 6 potential there. I think it's a perspective issue as well, 7 Okay. With In terms of the reverse designs, 8 19 was the -- my top pick, my favorite. 9 idea of the eagle feeding her eaglet, and symbolically 10 nurturing the next generation of liberty. 11 detail works well. 12 which is always a concern of mine. 13 I love the And the There's not too much crowding, And my second favorite reverse is No. 14 17. I like that this is more motif-centric versus 15 symbols-image-centric, save for the eagle in the 16 middle. 17 very well, and the fact that it's hearkening back to 18 some of these older designs, coin designs, also works 19 well too. 20 And this is something that was enjoyable to see. I think that the spacing of the letters works 21 22 Very Gilded Age while still being modern. Okay. And that will be all for me. Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 183 1 2 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you, Annelisa. 3 Mike Moran, if you would, please. 4 MR. MORAN: 5 Okay. I'm here. Can you hear me? 6 THE CHAIRMAN: 7 MR. MORAN: 8 MS. WARREN: 9 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 10 MR. MORAN: Sure can. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay. Yes. Well, I listened to 11 Kellen start it off, and I thought, "Oh, he and I are 12 on different planets." 13 how I like No. 2; I don't. 14 graffiti, I just don't like the design. 15 to get some closure here before we're done, Kellen. 16 I typically start off about It's not necessarily the We're going Going through these, I also want to 17 endorse what Donald said about silver versus gold in 18 different designs. 19 could do that. 20 sense. 21 coin collectors. 22 and avant-garde with -- in selection, like, No. 6 -- That caught me by surprise that we We certainly can, and it makes some They're marketed to two different classes of And being a little bit more risque www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 184 1 and I'm going by numbers, April, not by the artists -- 2 with the dove, and -- and the stylized Liberty, that's 3 not bad at all. 4 the on the -- coin. 5 But it's not going to get my vote on I also like No. 8. There's really no 6 excuse for that. I mean, it's -- it looks almost like 7 a Disney character, but it -- I like the torch down 8 there, and I like the fact that there's a glide motion 9 there with the scarf, or the cloak, the wrap, and her 10 hand drawn back, and one drawn forward. 11 liked for a more realistic face on that one. 12 get much in the way of votes from me. 13 I would've It won't My real favorite is the sunflowers. 14 And they're well modeled, but -- that's No. 12 -- but 15 it's more than that. 16 It's the bee that pollinates, and then the seeds that 17 go forth and sprout up, and -- and create more of -- 18 of the symbol of liberty. 19 any better than that. 20 nature instead of our own human form for liberty. 21 I think in this case, it's probably my favorite of the 22 portfolio on the obverse. It's its symbolism behind that. I don't think you can get Sometimes, we ought to look to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 185 1 The second favorite, I'm always a 2 sucker for this, is 24. 3 completes the thought that it is constantly changing. 4 It's constantly reforming itself. 5 chiseling out the image of liberty out of a block of 6 granite, marble, what have you here, rock. 7 think that's good. 8 9 Liberty is -- she -- it I like the idea of And I I'm going to get on the side of the people that say too many buffalos. I don't care, the 10 leaping, or flying, or what have you. 11 buffalos on the State quarter, we've done them on 12 medals, we've done them on our nickel. 13 just won't go there. 14 We've done And I'm -- I On the reverses, I liked -- I get to it 15 here -- 12. 16 anatomically correct, but it's close enough. 17 like the fact that the -- the head and shoulders of 18 the eagle are wrapped in the -- of the feathers and 19 the wing. 20 21 22 Not that these -- it's not, I would say, And -- yeah, 12. There -- one back. And I That's not my 12. There we go. I like the idea that the feathers are www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 186 1 there, and it -- it really makes a nice design and 2 a -- circumference to -- and compliments the 3 circumference of the coin. 4 head. 5 eagles. 6 into the -- looks like the eagle with a snake, but 7 it's really chains 8 not -- I don't need an eagle We've got the -- coin, we've done soaring I'm not into the traditional design. 9 I'm not We've done eagles in nest. We did And this is where Kellen and I are in 10 agreement. It's my favorite of the portfolio. 11 No. 23. 12 great, I like the way it -- it changes it's -- it's 13 size. 14 going to look really great. 15 vote. I love it. It's a good design. The font's But I -- I think it incused around the -- it's It's going to get my 16 There you have it, Peter. 17 THE CHAIRMAN: 18 That's Mike, thank you very much. 19 Art, if you would, please. 20 MR. BERNSTEIN: This is Art Bernstein, 21 and I will use the design numbers to give some 22 comments about designs I liked, and a few that I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 187 1 didn't like. 2 Design 1 on the obverse, I thought was 3 traditional and elegant, and will get some points from 4 me. 5 Design No. 2, I was about to admit that 6 I was a minority of one. I think I'm now a minority 7 of two that doesn't like the graffiti. 8 my -- I got a pretty good scolding when we talked 9 about this on the Paris Medal. And I had I understand that 10 graffiti is an artform, but I'm a member of this 11 committee representing the general public, and I think 12 there are elements in the general public that see -- 13 still see graffiti as a criminal activity, that they 14 see in terms of property damage, and I do not believe 15 we should be celebrating graffiti. 16 that's a minority opinion. 17 And I recognize Design 3, I thought -- I wasn't making 18 connections between butterflies and liberty, and I 19 thought those designs were a little too busy. 20 Design 5, to me, was eye-popping. 21 I mean that in a positive way. 22 myself drawn to it. And I -- I just found It was so unusual. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Yes, it has a Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 188 1 certain Egyptian flavor to it, it has a certain art 2 deco flavor to it, and it just -- just really caught 3 my eye, and I think it would be a fantastic design. 4 Continuing on, the design with the 5 Liberty Bell on 09, to me, a very action-oriented 6 coin. 7 almost felt like the coin was making a sound. It just cried out, "let freedom ring," and I 8 9 Design 13; fairly simple, fairly elegant. But to me, the torch was too closely similar 10 to an ice cream cone. 11 oak leaf, I don't think anyone mentioned what was 12 mentioned in the text, which was this design was also 13 meant to mirror the Statue of Liberty with the 14 outstretched arm, and the head being the acorn. 15 thought that was very clever. 16 The next design, 14, with the And I Design No. 18; I don't recall any 17 comments on this one. 18 very traditional look, and for me, hearkened back to 19 the Flowing Hair dollar from ancient times, and I just 20 thought it was a modern take on that and the -- tree. 21 22 And to me, I thought it was a I liked all three of the designs featuring Liberty walking with a daughter, or with a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 189 1 young woman, or without a young woman. 2 three of those designs are worthy of our 3 consideration. 4 I thought all And that was it for the obverses. On the reverses, design reverse 1 and 5 2, both of those I found -- just found them sort of 6 scary. 7 modern, and I think would tie-in very well with that 8 eye-popping Egyptian design that I liked. And I liked design liked 4, to me was very 9 Again, on the reverses, design 16. To 10 me, this looked like the U.S. Postal Service symbol. 11 And so, I did not support that one. 12 concludes my comments. 13 14 15 And that Thank you. THE CHAIRMAN: All right, Art. Thank you very much. For my own comments, I'm going to refer 16 by artist number. Beginning with artist No. 1, the 17 design of obverse 1 and reverse 1, I felt compelling, 18 obviously traditional, but we're seeing some things 19 here that we've never seen before with Liberty. 20 Namely, on the obverse, Liberty clutching a fist full 21 of arrows, which my understanding of the symbolism 22 would be much more marshal, than peaceful. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I found Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 190 1 that, you know, really rather interesting, and 2 obviously pairs well with the aggressive eagle on the 3 obverse. 4 I really find these designs interesting 5 and compelling. 6 should be the designs recommended by the Committee, 7 but I certainly will be giving some score to these. 8 9 I don't necessarily think that these The artist No. 2 with the graffiti take on the Statue of Liberty; Statue of Liberty is 10 something I know well, since I pass by her twice a day 11 on my way from Staten Island, where I live, to 12 Manhattan, where I work, and back home again. 13 am drawn to her. 14 evenings, sitting outside, when the weather permits, 15 and really enjoying the view of the statue. 16 I still And I do find myself, especially on And I'm not alone, because I'm usually 17 sharing that deck with hundreds of other people, 18 tourists and others, who are crowding both the ferry, 19 as well as the other ferries that take them to the 20 island to see the statue. 21 resonates with a lot of people in this country as a 22 depiction of liberty. So the statue still clearly www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 191 1 And this take on the Statue of Liberty, 2 I think, is in many ways, really quite appropriate. 3 Not only for its setting in New York, where there is a 4 lot of street art and graffiti, but also just for the 5 very modern take on this depiction. 6 I was really drawn, as well, to the 7 work of artists No. 5, 6, and 8. They three who 8 turned to the natural world to find expressions of 9 liberty. 10 No. -- artist No. 5, with the dandelion 11 obverse and reverse, I really found these to be lovely 12 designs, as well as the design of the sunflower, by 13 artist No. 6, and the oak, by artist No. 8. 14 concern with these three designs, however, is just the 15 symbolism and expression of liberty not necessarily 16 being as impactful as I might think they might be with 17 some of the other representations. 18 these really compelling and lovely designs, but I'm 19 just not sure if the concept of liberty is being 20 expressed as well as it could be. 21 22 My Again, I find Artist No. 12, with the mom and daughter walking, is a design that I came back to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 192 1 again and again. I find that design -- 2 Yes, that one. 3 Really just, somehow, emotionally 4 engaging, and I really liked this design. 5 depiction of Liberty as, essentially, an everyday 6 woman walking with her daughter, which is a depiction 7 which we really have never seen before. 8 always been allegorical, either with a fistful of oak 9 branches, or olive branches, r in this earlier case, a 10 fistful of arrows. 11 find touching. 12 And it is a Liberty has But here, this image, I really And as Kellen noted, it is one that 13 we've seen before in various other guises, but perhaps 14 this is the time and the place, finally, for it. 15 Artist No. 12's bison, I also found really quite 16 compelling as well, but as others have expressed, 17 perhaps we've seen a little bit too many bison, as 18 well as too many -- or at least, a -- a reference, in 19 some ways, to the earlier bronco design that we did a 20 few years ago. 21 The corresponding reverses; again, the 22 reverse by artist No. 6, the swirling wings, I really www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 193 1 quite love as well. 2 That one, yes. 3 I -- I think this is, just, dynamic, 4 and something that we have never seen before. 5 really do hope we can find a place for this reverse on 6 one of the -- either the coin or the medal, this 7 afternoon. 8 9 10 And I That's all I've got to say about all of that. Are there any other further comments or questions? 11 Harcourt. Yes, please. 12 DR. FULLER: 13 THE CHAIRMAN: 14 DR. FULLER: Yes. Do I need a mic? Yes. Hi. This is Harcourt 15 Fuller. I think that when you open -- when you invite 16 diverse designers, creators, we're going to get things 17 that are not -- not traditional. 18 aim, right, where we are inviting tattoo artists, 19 comic book artists, graffiti artists, street artists, 20 I think that that means that -- I mean, a lot of these 21 are things that, I think, at one point or another, 22 might have been considered -- I don't want to speak And if that's the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 194 1 out of turn, but criminal. 2 what's the word I'm looking for? 3 Or what's the word -- Delinquent -- no, not that. Well, 4 yeah. That, disruptive, et cetera, et cetera. And 5 so, I want to go back to the point of graffiti. 6 of things that started out as rebellious, or even 7 criminal, or you know, I mean, you could look at rock 8 and roll, you could look at whatever you think about 9 hip-hop, you could look at the foundation of the A lot 10 United States, breaking away from, you know, Great 11 Britain -- 12 13 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: -- criminal designs. 14 DR. FULLER: Right. Well, it's 15 criminal, and now, has become normalized. 16 think we can always look at -- there's a saying, "It's 17 not where you start, it's where you end up." 18 I'm saying all that to say that I -- graffiti is a 19 much celebrated artform when you go to Paris, you go 20 to wherever. 21 Again, whatever you -- we might think about these art 22 forms, they are consumed and respected globally, so I So I don't And so, Again, like rock and roll, hip-hop. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 195 1 just want to make a case again, for No. 2 as a 2 legitimate and respected artform that is deserving of 3 being on a coin, if -- if that's the decision. 4 you. 5 6 THE CHAIRMAN: Harcourt, thank you very much. 7 John, if you would. 8 MR. SAUNDERS: 9 Thank I think before we rate these things, we have to make a decision whether we're 10 going to rate a separate design to the gold and the 11 silver, in the event that we could, but I don't think 12 it's a bad idea. 13 motion that we do that. 14 for merit, if we vote for it either way, we do -- we 15 create a new column beside there -- beside the other 16 medal. 17 So I -- I would actually make a And that we each, I think, THE CHAIRMAN: What -- what I would 18 recommend in this case, is that we score first, and 19 then see what obverse and reverses come out of the 20 scoring as top preferences. 21 this discussion to try to place one or the other on 22 either the gold or the silver. And then, we could have Would that be okay www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 196 1 with you? 2 MR. SAUNDERS: It's however you want to 4 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. 5 MS. WARREN: 3 6 do it, is fine. Chairman, Joe Menna has his hand up -- long time. 7 THE CHAIRMAN: 8 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 9 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 11 THE CHAIRMAN: Joe. Who? Joe. Oh -- 10 12 Did you -- Oh, Joe. Joe. Yeah. Sorry, I can't see it behind that. 13 MR. MENNA: Mr. Chairman, this is 14 Joseph Menna. I'm going to kind of give a little 15 exposition in line with what Dr. Fuller said. 16 about graffiti's origins in ancient Rome, or not 17 origins, but most famous beginnings as a way for the 18 disenfranchised to voice their -- their discontent. Think 19 And in the inner cities in the United 20 States of America, yes, the sense with it is that it 21 is criminal, but oftentimes it's the only means of 22 expression or outlet that people who are profoundly www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 197 1 disenfranchised have. That's graffiti; that's 2 tagging. 3 street art, which is different, and is not illegal. 4 It is practiced around the world, as What evolved from that is something called 5 Dr. Fuller said. But most of the kind of street art 6 that is popular today, the biggest artists in the 7 world who practice it, it's all commissioned. 8 fact, the CIA -- the CIA Building just commissioned 9 the street artist named Tristan Eaton on the inside of 10 the headquarters. 11 know this, but he told me he's doing it. 12 In I don't think anybody's supposed to Anyway, I -- I totally respect 13 everybody's; I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's 14 opinion, but street art is distinct from graffiti. 15 And what you're seeing here on No. 2 is street art. 16 And I'm -- advocating for the coin, or any other coin 17 that may present it, is being presented here legally 18 and -- and not in a criminal way. 19 about that. 20 21 22 But -- so sorry Thanks. THE CHAIRMAN: Not a problem. Thank you, Joe. Kellen, I believe you had your hand www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 198 1 raised? 2 3 MR. HOARD: No, it was -- the same thing as you, just -- 4 THE CHAIRMAN: 5 Donald. 6 MR. WEINMAN: Okay. Before Joe jumped in. I 7 think I agree. It'd be useful to us to score it. 8 then, maybe it would also be useful for us, possibly, 9 to make recommendations both ways. 10 THE CHAIRMAN: 11 MR. WEINMAN: And Right. Both a view -- a design 12 that could be on the gold and the silver, as well as 13 designs that -- that could be on each coin. 14 it -- it provides us the most information. 15 16 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. I think Thank you for that clarity. 17 Donald. 18 MR. SCARINCI: So before we continue, I 19 just want to tell you all how proud I am of you. 20 think, you know, I was very nervous coming in here 21 today, you know, 'cause I didn't know what everybody 22 was going to think, how you were going to feel about www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 199 1 this, and I've been waiting for this for years. 2 And -- and Joe, you got it; you nailed 3 it. And these are -- I think there's some artists 4 here that I definitely think we need to see more from 5 them, particularly artist No. 2. 6 maybe we can do a -- you know, if it's a -- 'cause we 7 don't -- we don't have to make decisions today; right? 8 I mean, I don't know that we have to score these 9 today. You know, maybe -- 10 If we don't, if we could see more from 11 No. 2, you know, maybe, you know, with an obverse and 12 a reverse for a silver coin, and introduce the 13 American people to this. 14 and to this art. 15 I mean, I actually take pictures of street art. 16 have a nice collection of pictures of street art. 17 know, it's -- it's from everywhere from Durham to New 18 York. 19 it speaks, it's emotive, it creates energy. 20 You know, and -- and to -- And yeah, street art's a big thing. So it's just fun -- it's just fun. I You It's good, I like the -- I like artists No. 2, No. 21 3, No. 5, No. 6, No. 8, and No. 12, is -- is, you 22 know, is you know, beckoned to the traditional. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 200 1 if I were to -- if -- if we were to go in a 2 traditional way for the gold coin, I would strongly -- 3 I would strongly suggest, 'cause I'm hearing what 4 everybody's saying about the buffalo. 5 that a buffalo jumps; maybe it does. 6 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 7 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 8 MR. SCARINCI: 9 I don't know It does. They jump. It does? I'm from New York, so I don't see buffalo, except in a zoo, and 10 they're always laying down. 11 I like -- I -- I really do like the combination of 12 what artist 12 did, the combination of 24C, as an 13 obverse, which is America inventing, and reinventing, 14 and making itself. 15 And you know, but -- but And then -- and then, a combination 16 with -- with reverse -- reverse 19, which is -- which 17 has this -- which has the eagle clasping a broken 18 chain. 19 know, it's like the eagle -- it's just America, you 20 know -- you know, it's the freedom. 21 think the combination of those two would make a nice 22 gold traditional-style medal. You know, it's -- like, kind of, freedom. You And -- and so, I But having said that, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 201 1 and having been the one who said maybe we should, you 2 know, go slow, my enthusiasm is getting to me, because 3 No. 12C, obverse 12C by artist 6, paired with artist 4 6, No. 12A-C, I think makes a nice coin. 5 the -- that's the design -- that -- I think it's nice. 6 7 THE CHAIRMAN: I think that was the MR. SCARINCI: I think it's a nice idea. 8 9 That's coin. So I mean, I -- I kind of like that if people 10 have the -- you know, if people are willing to go that 11 far in the first round. 12 would be very -- would be very compelling. 13 know -- so listen, I just -- I just, you know, I just 14 have to do, like, a victory dance here. 15 great. You know, something like that So you This is Thank you. 16 THE CHAIRMAN: Court Reporter, can you 17 put into the record that Donald actually stood up and 18 danced? 19 Thank you very much. 20 Are there any other further comments, 21 22 questions. All right. Hearing none, the Committee www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 202 1 will now score the obverse -- 2 3 MR. WEINMAN: Actually, before we score, we -- we have a comment. 4 Do it? 5 MS. STAFFORD: Yes -- yes. 7 THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, please -- please. 8 MS. STAFFORD: It's just something to 6 9 If it's okay. consider. I don't think it should impact the scoring, 10 but many of you were part of, or are part of the 11 Semiquincentennial work group, and I just wanted to 12 share that if you recall the half dollar assignment 13 for the Semiquincentennial was that look into future 14 of what it will take to keep the Republic for the next 15 250 years. 16 was some kind of depiction of liberty in that vein. 17 And so, they were encouraged to also -- to potentially 18 explore intergenerational representations of liberty. And the obverse assignment to the artist 19 So I know that there was at least one 20 design that you noted here, and we would be happy to 21 bring that back. 22 bring that back as part of that portfolio as well. It's gotten a lot of attention; www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 203 1 THE CHAIRMAN: 2 important information. 3 that, April. 4 Okay. Thank you. Very -- very So thank you very much on The committee will now score the 5 obverse and reverse candidate designs for the 2025 6 American Liberty 24-Karat Gold Coin and silver medal. 7 And you all should have your score sheets in front of 8 you. 9 And when you are done, please hand them to Counsel And Mike, you should have yours electronically. 10 Greg Weinman, who will tally up the scores and present 11 the results. 12 13 And will take a five-minute break, and be back at -- 14 15 MR. WEINMAN: break. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Make it a ten-minute THE CHAIRMAN: Or a ten-minute break, yes. MS. WARREN: It's 3:07, so we'll be back at, like, 3:17. THE CHAIRMAN: We will be back at 3:17. Sounds good. Thank you. (Off the record.) www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 All right. Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 204 1 MS. WARREN: 2 THE CHAIRMAN: We are back. It is 3:20. All right. We are back. 3 And I recognize Greg Weinman, counsel to the CCAC, to 4 present the results of the scoring sheet. 5 Greg. 6 MR. WEINMAN: 7 12 Ready to So starting with the obverses, out of -- once again, out of 30 points. 10 11 Ready. go. 8 9 Okay. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The design numbers. MR. WEINMAN: I'm going to go with -- 13 yeah, the design -- the design numbers. 14 Design No. 1, 11 points. Design No. 2, 15 20 points, which is the high scoring obverse design. 16 3 is two points, 4 is two points, 5 is six points, 6 17 is four points, 7 is three points, 8 is six points, 9 18 is six points, 10 is one point, 11 is eight points, 12 19 is 18; it's very close. 20 points, 15 is three points, 16 is two points, 17 is 21 two points, 18 is six points, 19 is three points, 20 22 is four points, 21 is 11 points, 22 is 17 points, 23 13 is one point, 14 is three www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 205 1 is seven points, 24 is 16 points, 25 is 13 points, 25A 2 is two points, 26 is two points, and 27 is two points. 3 Okay. 4 MR. BERNSTEIN: 5 you on 11. What was the number? 6 THE CHAIRMAN: 7 MR. WEINMAN: 8 9 Greg, I couldn't hear Eight. For design 11, it was eight points. MR. BERNSTEIN: Thank you. 10 THE CHAIRMAN: That's correct. 11 MR. WEINMAN: 12 Once again, out of 30 points. Ready for the reverse? Design 1 13 is three points, design 2 is three points, design 3 is 14 two points, design 4 is one point, design 5 is four 15 points, design 6 is two points, design 7 is five 16 points, design 8 is eight points, design 9 is five 17 points, design 11 is nine points, design 12A is 22 18 points, which is the high -- high vote getter. 19 13 is six points, design 14 is nine points, design 15 20 is four points, design 16 is three points, design 17 21 is four points, design 18 is eight points, design 19 22 is eight points, design 20 is four points, design 21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Design Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 206 1 is three points, design 22 is three points, design 23 2 is 12 points. 3 4 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Thank you very much, Greg. 5 So here we go. Are there any motions, 6 or should we have a discussion first before we -- 7 let's have a discussion before we start making 8 motions. 9 10 Harcourt, if you would, please. DR. FULLER: Harcourt Fuller. This is great. I don't 11 have much to say. This -- that's all 12 I wanted to say. 13 obviously, reverse 12A is the -- is the big winner, 14 and I think that the -- for the obverses, I think 15 that, you know, 12, 22, 24, 25, are the ones that I 16 think most of us really liked. So I think it went the 17 way that the discussions went. Thank you. It's really great. 18 THE CHAIRMAN: 19 Kellen. 20 MR. HOARD: I think that Thank you. This is Kellen Hoard. I'd 21 like to raise the idea, given that 12A was so dominant 22 on the scoring, that we consider doing different www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 207 1 obverse designs between the silver and the gold, which 2 has been proposed previously, and a common reverse 3 design. So 12A is on both silver and gold. 4 And then, on silver, it could go with 5 maybe one of the more, kind of bold designs, like 2. 6 And on the gold design, we could go with something 7 more traditional, like the sunflower or the 8 intergenerational. 9 official motion; just as a discussion topic. That'd be my proposal. And not as 10 THE CHAIRMAN: Right. 11 MR. SCARINCI: Two things -- two things 12 I want to say. 13 First, if we all -- I don't know how we 14 all feel about -- I think this was really 15 groundbreaking that we have a number assigned to the 16 artists. 17 number, so that we can tell when the artist has a -- 18 you know, is the same artist that's doing the obverse 19 and the reverse. 20 think -- if we want to see our coins presented this 21 way, you know, perhaps, you know, a recommendation to 22 staff would be in order for us to see all portfolios And we're able to see, not the name, but the And if the Mint -- if we -- if we www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 208 1 with identifying, where there is an obverse and a 2 reverse, identifying the obverse and reverse. 3 want to say that, number one. 4 for discussion amongst you, if there is a consensus to 5 do that; we can ask. 6 So I And -- and open that up And then, number two, I think we should 7 all just take this in for a minute. And you know, 8 this -- this is -- this is the moment that American 9 coin design has changed. And I think we -- we should 10 really just take a breath, take this in. This is a 11 story we're going to be telling for a long time, I 12 suspect, and this is a -- this is a really proud 13 moment. 14 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Donald. 15 John, your -- your hand is raised. 16 MR. SAUNDERS: 17 I think now it's important to consider John Saunders here. 18 what metal the coins are in. So for the -- like, No. 19 2, which I gave a lot of points to, I -- I don't like 20 at all for the gold coin; I like it for the silver 21 coin. 22 having the eagle that got the votes, I like the, kind And if we have that on the obverse, rather than www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 209 1 of, stylistic eagle. What is the last one there; No. 2 23 with it. 3 combination, that would be my -- my strong choice. 4 In terms -- terms of gold, well, my So I mean, if we were going for a 5 buffalo didn't make it, but I still like it. 6 think the -- the eagle reverse is a -- a good reverse 7 for the gold, the one with the, kind of, swirling 8 eagle. 9 would be a beautiful -- on a colorized design. 10 I wish we were doing a colorized coin. So I That The other comment I'd like to make. 11 It's too bad that the law is such that we can't put a 12 denomination on the silver coin, because -- 13 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 14 MR. SAUNDERS: Working on it. -- a lot of collectors 15 tend to collect coins, but not medals. 16 to get this -- any of these, to get the one that's 17 actually a coin, you have to buy the gold, which is 18 expensive for most collectors. 19 a comment that I wanted to make. 20 And you know, So -- but that's just But I like -- if we go with the eagle 21 reverse, swirly eagle reverse, I like either the -- 22 the 22 or the sunflower as an obverse with it, rather www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 210 1 than the obverse 2 that got the most votes. 2 that's -- I kind of -- I think when we have different 3 pairs, this is -- but I'm kind of saying I see things 4 a little differently when we're pairing them up, than 5 when I -- I see them as individuals. 6 THE CHAIRMAN: So What I would recommend 7 at this stage, since there does seem to be consensus 8 that we do two separate design pairs or possibly a 9 common reverse, for the gold coin and the -- 10 THE REPORTER: -- microphone. 11 THE CHAIRMAN: -- silver medal, is that 12 we first discuss say, a silver medal obverse, and try 13 to nail that down before then moving onto say, the 14 obverse for the gold, and then reverse. 15 16 17 18 19 MS. WARREN: Mr. Chairman, just so you know, Mike also has his hand up. THE CHAIRMAN: So whatever order. Okay. Mike, you have your hand up, I believe, for a while. MR. MORAN: Yeah, this is Mike Moran. 20 Thank you, Peter. I just want to point out to you 21 that the number two vote getter on the obverse was the 22 sunflower, and that's done by the same artist as the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 211 1 reverse eagle that was popular. 2 no-brainer you put the sunflower on the silver medal, 3 you have the common reverse of an eagle, and you use 4 No. 2 for the gold medal on the obverse. 5 THE CHAIRMAN: 6 MR. MORAN: 7 THE CHAIRMAN: 8 MR. HOARD: To me, it's a All right. Kellen. That way, we get an -Thank you, Mike. This is Kellen Hoard. 9 had a clarifying question for April. 10 You mentioned for the I 11 Semiquincentennial that there was discussion of -- 12 intergenerational at one point too. 13 so -- I don't really know, is that, kind of, one of 14 the main things being considered? 15 if it could be put on the half dollar, I think that's 16 even more powerful than in gold or in silver. 17 the design, I love it here, but I'd prefer it be on a 18 circulating coin if it could be. 19 MS. STAFFORD: I'm not -- yeah, 'Cause if it's -- I love When we saw the design 20 come through, we tagged it at that point for inclusion 21 in the portfolio that you'll see for the half dollar. 22 Obviously, if it's recommended by the CCAC and CFA, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 212 1 and the Secretary selects it for use on the American 2 Liberty Program, that would be a conflict. 3 would -- that's exactly why I wanted to draw your 4 attention to that work that's going on. But yes, I 5 THE CHAIRMAN: Right. 6 MS. STAFFORD: And you'll be seeing 7 that, I believe, in July, in -- in a handful of 8 months. 9 THE CHAIRMAN: 10 MR. HOARD: Okay. So then, if I could, I 11 would just make a motion, which we can shoot down if 12 we want, in discussion. 13 MR. MORAN: Did I lose audio? 14 MR. HOARD: I'm sorry? 15 Well, which would be that -- 16 MR. MENNA: 17 Me too, Mike. anything. 18 THE CHAIRMAN: 19 MS. WARREN: 20 MR. MORAN: 21 22 I don't hear Oh, sorry. The mic -- hold on. Our recommendation blew the place up. MS. WARREN: Can you guys hear us now? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 213 1 MR. MORAN: 2 MS. WARREN: 3 MR. MENNA: 4 MS. WARREN: 5 Yeah, we can hear. Okay. Yes, ma'am. For some reason, it was open, but it wasn't saying it was. 6 MR. HOARD: For B, I would make a 7 motion that we adopt, for the silver medal, obverse 2 8 and reverse 12A. 9 sunflower, which I believe was 12, and then, the And for the gold, we adopt the 10 reverse 12A. The reason I recommend that silver and 11 gold pairing; one, the sunflower, I think would look 12 great in gold -- golden flower. 13 the silver medal, which is kind of the more accessible 14 piece, I think it's going to be younger people buying 15 it. 16 kind of, that more modern design. 17 classical, and kind of, a groundbreaking one with a 18 common reverse, I think is -- That's kind of our idea. But two, is that for I'd like that to be, That would keep it 19 So that's my motion, is -- 20 MR. TUCKER: 21 MR. HOARD: 22 Can you repeat that? Sure. So obverse -- for the silver medal, obverse 2, reverse 12A. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And then, Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 214 1 for the gold coin, obverse 12, I believe it is, the 2 sunflower; and reverse 12A. 3 THE CHAIRMAN: 4 MR. MORAN: 5 THE CHAIRMAN: 6 All right. This is Mike Moran. Do we have a second for that motion? 7 MR. MORAN: Mike seconds it. 8 THE CHAIRMAN: 9 Discussion? Mike has seconded it. 10 Go ahead, Dennis. 11 MR. SAUNDERS: I have an -- an THE CHAIRMAN: Dennis is first, yeah. 12 alternate -- 13 14 Sorry. 15 MR. TUCKER: This is Dennis Tucker. 16 In my opinion, 12A is so unique and has 17 such a distinct character, it -- it's not really 18 matched by any of the obverses that we're seeing. 19 don't think it -- and I love it, and I want to see it 20 on either the coin or the medal in this program, but I 21 think it needs a proper obverse to accompany it. 22 I don't think that we are seeing that here. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I And I don't Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 215 1 think the sunflower -- it's just too jarring. 2 you've got -- you've got the sunflower imagery, and 3 then you've got this screaming eagle. 4 very different styles and temperament. 5 I mean, And they're two And then, same with the -- the street 6 art obverse. I -- I just don't think they're matched. 7 These are all strong designs, but I feel like the -- 8 the street art Statue of Liberty needs a reverse that 9 truly accompanies it, and truly matches its style and 10 poise. 11 So I would recommended we slow down and take a look at 12 the totality of these combinations. 13 14 15 And I would say the same for the sunflower. THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you. If I can just ask a question, and this is to April. The combination of sunflower and this 16 reverse 12A, were those conceived by the artist? 17 Because they are the same artist. 18 conceived of as a pair? 19 MS. STAFFORD: Were these Yes, that is correct. 20 They were asked to develop their obverse and reverse 21 design in concert with one another. 22 THE CHAIRMAN: Right. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So -- Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 216 1 MS. STAFFORD: I think that's why you 2 see the circular element repeated from the sunflower 3 to the eagle's wings. 4 THE CHAIRMAN: Right. So in this case, 5 the two that we see on the screen, the sunflower and 6 the eagle then, was conceived by the same artist as a 7 matching pair? 8 MS. STAFFORD: That is correct. 9 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay, thank you. 10 Art? 11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 12 THE CHAIRMAN: Or John; sorry. 13 MR. SAUNDERS: I've got an alternate John. 14 proposal as to getting our pairing right. 15 suggest that everybody write down three pairs for the 16 silver and three pairs for the gold. 17 like best a 3, second best 2, third best 1, and we see 18 if we -- we get an opinion on what pairs people like. 19 Because just voting on one thing to start with without 20 getting -- seeing how much agreement or disagreement 21 on pairs, I think we're maybe going down the wrong 22 road. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I would Give the one you Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 217 1 2 THE CHAIRMAN: Harcourt, I think you were next. 3 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 4 THE CHAIRMAN: 5 DR. FULLER: Harcourt? Harcourt, yeah. Peter, thanks for asking 6 that question. I think this is a no-brainer. If 7 the -- since the artist designed this as a -- as a 8 pair, that means the artists considered the ways in 9 which they work together. And so, because of that, I 10 think we -- I think we should go with this, whether in 11 silver or gold. 12 But I think we should go with this. I think it's -- we're very fortunate 13 that we've had this large pool, and we end up with the 14 obverse and reverse designed by the same artist for 15 the same coin. It's no-brainer. 16 THE CHAIRMAN: 17 Dennis, was it you, or Art? 18 MR. BERNSTEIN: 19 THE CHAIRMAN: 20 21 22 Right. It was me. It was Art. Yeah, sorry. MR. BERNSTEIN: This is Art Bernstein. And speaking to the motion on the floor -- if we would www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 218 1 consider two separate motions; one for the silver, one 2 for the gold. 3 THE CHAIRMAN: 4 Kellen, would you be willing to 5 permit -- 6 MR. HOARD: 7 THE CHAIRMAN: 8 MR. WEINMAN: 9 Yeah. Yeah -Oh, sorry. Just from -- from the Mint's perspective, just to be helpful. While it's -- 10 while I think it's good to get a recommendation on 11 silver pairing, gold pairing, also a default pairing 12 would be useful for us just in case that's where we 13 end up having to go for one reason or another. 14 So it might be a motion that the 15 default pairing would be what you laid out. 16 we're able to, "This would be a good gold pairing. 17 This would be a good silver pairing." 18 THE CHAIRMAN: 19 MR. WEINMAN: 20 But if Very good. That would be useful for us. 21 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. 22 So, Kellen, would you be willing to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Thank you. Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 219 1 amend your motion? 2 3 MR. HOARD: motion. 4 5 THE CHAIRMAN: MR. HOARD: So would you like So why don't we do gold first. 8 9 Okay. to make a motion to proceed with the gold first? 6 7 Yeah, we can split the THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So the motion then, on the table, is to consider what we see on the 10 screen at the moment, the obverse depicting the 11 sunflower, and the obverse with the -- 12A, with the 12 swirling wings. 13 Or do we need a second for the -- I believe we already have a second? 14 MR. SCARINCI: I'll second it. 15 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. 16 MR. SCARINCI: Can I -- can I make a 17 friendly amendment that this be -- that this would be 18 the bold pair. 19 can only do one design for the gold and the silver, it 20 should be this one. 21 22 So if we can only do -- so that if we THE CHAIRMAN: Kellen, do you accept that friendly amendment? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 220 1 2 MR. HOARD: a separate motion in my opinion. 3 4 Well, I think it should be THE CHAIRMAN: If that's all right. All right. Then, we will -- 5 MR. HOARD: 6 That's a separate motion. I don't -- I don't object. 7 MR. SCARINCI: Yeah, that's fine. 8 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. 9 So let's proceed with this motion then for this gold pairing. 10 All those in favor say, "aye." 11 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 12 THE CHAIRMAN: 13 All right. 14 done with the gold. 15 16 Aye. Any opposed? The motion carries. We're On with the silver. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: So I'll make a -- 17 Oh, go ahead. 18 MR. SAUNDERS: I was going to make an 19 opposing motion on the silver that either we pick out 20 two or three and we vote between the two or three, or 21 if I have to propose one, I would propose obverse 2 22 with the last reverse, reverse 23, I think. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 221 1 2 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. like to make that a motion? 3 MR. SAUNDERS: Yes. 4 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. 5 John, would you So the motion then is to pair obverse 2 with reverse 23. 6 Do I have a second for that? 7 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 8 first? 9 THE CHAIRMAN: 10 11 Can we discuss All right. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We actually need a second to discuss. 12 MR. SAUNDERS: How about -- why don't 13 we pick several obverse and reverse pairings, and then 14 we can all -- let's narrow it down to maybe three or 15 four. 16 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. 17 MR. SCARINCI: Narrow it down to maybe MR. SAUNDERS: And then -- and then, 18 19 20 three or four. choose among those. 21 MR. SCARINCI: I think that's -- 22 THE CHAIRMAN: Kellen. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 222 1 MR. HOARD: If I could -- for the -- in 2 general, the process is fine. 3 though is that on the reverses, the only one that even 4 got above half of the points was 12A. 5 highest was only 12 -- 12 points, which is pretty low. 6 And so, regardless of the broader discussion, if 7 there's -- if everyone -- option side 1 is disliked by 8 most of the Committee, I -- I think we should just go 9 with the one that's -- actually is the high score. 10 What I'd point out The next Thank you. 11 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. So there seems to 12 be a general consensus that obverse 2 is appropriate 13 for the silver medal. 14 I know that there's some -- 15 16 MR. HOARD: UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 21 22 Standalone medal. 19 20 So I would move that we recommend obverse 2; silver medal. 17 18 I don't -- for the most part. THE CHAIRMAN: As -- as a standalone medal. MR. HOARD: to begin with; right? Well, it's just the obverse Because we work with multiple www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 223 1 reverses? 2 THE CHAIRMAN: 3 MR. HOARD: 4 So I move that we just offer obverse 2. 5 6 Right. THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. on that motion? 7 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 8 THE CHAIRMAN: 9 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 10 All right. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: THE CHAIRMAN: second. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 16 MS. WARREN: 17 THE REPORTER: 21 22 Oh, well -- Hold on guys. Was there a second on that? 19 20 It didn't get a No, it didn't get a 15 18 I thought John second. 13 14 Second. had a motion on -- 11 12 Is there a second MS. WARREN: Yeah, who gave second, because -MR. SCARINCI: I -- I think it was -- Donald gave the second. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 224 1 THE CHAIRMAN: 2 Okay. It was Donald, yeah. So the motion then is to 3 recommend obverse 2 as the silver medal obverse; all 4 right? 5 6 Any further discussion on that, or should we just vote? 7 8 All right. Let's vote. favor, "aye." 9 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: Aye. 10 THE CHAIRMAN: 11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 12 THE CHAIRMAN: 13 MR. MORAN: 14 THE CHAIRMAN: 15 All those in Any opposed? Nay. Motion carries. Aye. Mike, was that a nay or a yay? 16 MR. MORAN: 17 MS. STAFFORD: Yeah. 18 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. 19 20 A nay. Thank you very much. All right. So then, let's see in the 21 next few minutes, if we can find an appropriate 22 reverse for this obverse. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 225 1 Dennis, you have your hand raised. 2 MR. TUCKER: 3 Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is Dennis Tucker. 4 Again, I just need to repeat. I don't 5 think any of these reverses are appropriate for this 6 very strong -- stylistically strong obverse. 7 recommendation would be that we solicit new designs 8 from the Mint if there's time for that, and -- and 9 reconsider. 10 So my Because reverse 23, I don't know if that's anatomically correct, this eagle. 11 We haven't had any discussion about the 12 formation of the wings, the feathers, and the crown of 13 the head, and things like that. 14 stylistically, it's -- it's night and day. 15 there's something jarring about that. 16 THE CHAIRMAN: And just And to me, And again, my 17 understanding in terms of the way the portfolio was 18 put together, that there is a corresponding reverse to 19 this obverse. 20 correct? 21 22 And that would be reverse 2; is that Yes, this one, which did not get too many votes. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 226 1 2 April, was this conceived as -- as the pair; right? 3 MS. STAFFORD: That is correct. 4 THE CHAIRMAN: So we have essentially 5 rejected this reverse as a -- as corresponding reverse 6 for this obverse. 7 All right, Kellen. 8 MR. HOARD: 9 So would it be possible to make a motion that we consider reverse 12A for this -- 10 for the obverse 2. 11 obverse 12A, we go back to the Mint for consideration 12 of other reverses? 13 14 And if the Committee votes down UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Put the motion on the table for 12A. 15 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, let's put the 16 motion on the table for 12A as the reverse. 17 All right. Is there a second? 18 Harcourt, is that a second? 19 DR. FULLER: 20 THE CHAIRMAN: That's a second. All right. So the 21 motion then is to adopt 12A as the reverse to be 22 paired with the obverse 2, which -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 227 1 MR. HOARD: 2 THE CHAIRMAN: 3 MR. HOARD: 4 THE CHAIRMAN: 5 Ask the mint for -- MR. HOARD: Oh. Ask the Mint for an For additional -- like Dennis suggested, additional options, I could say. 8 THE CHAIRMAN: 9 All right. 10 Yeah. additional -- 6 7 And if it doesn't pass -- Okay. All those in favor of the motion, "aye." 11 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 12 THE CHAIRMAN: Any opposed? 13 MR. SAUNDERS: What is the motion 14 again? 15 16 Aye. MR. HOARD: Should I divide these? this complicated? 17 THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, I would recommend 18 that we just proceed with pairing this with -- this 19 obverse 2 with this reverse alone. 20 Mr. HOARD: 21 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 22 Is And then -- Okay. goes. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 See how that Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 228 1 2 THE CHAIRMAN: And see how that goes. And then, we can go from there. 3 All right. So all those in favor of 4 this pair, 2 and 12A, signify approval by saying 5 "aye." 6 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 7 THE CHAIRMAN: 8 MR. MORAN: 9 THE CHAIRMAN: 10 Aye. Any opposed? Opposed. All right. we'll have to do -- 11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKERS: 12 THE CHAIRMAN: 13 MS. WARREN: 15 THE CHAIRMAN: I think we'll Yeah. All those in favor raise your hand, please. 17 MS. WARREN: 18 THE CHAIRMAN: 19 Okay. -- abstain. have to do a hand count then. 14 16 I think Two. All right. All those opposed? 20 MS. WARREN: Oh, three -- three. 21 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Three. 22 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Three? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 229 1 All those opposed? 2 MR. MORAN: 3 THE CHAIRMAN: 4 Opposed as well. you're in favor? 5 MR. MORAN: 6 MS. WARREN: 7 THE CHAIRMAN: 8 Mike, you're opposed, or I'm opposed. Okay. And -- All those in favor, raise your hand. 9 Three. All right. So we have three. 10 All those opposed, raise your hand. 11 MR. MORAN: 12 MS. WARREN: 13 THE CHAIRMAN: 14 Opposed. Six. All right. And any abstentions? 15 All right. We have one abstain. 16 All right. The motion does not carry. 17 All right. 18 MR. HOARD: 19 I would move then that we ask the Mint So this is Kellen Hoard. 20 for additional designs of the reverse of the silver 21 medal to consider. 22 MR. TUCKER: I would make a friendly www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 230 1 amendment to that. 2 This is Dennis Tucker. I would make a friendly amendment that 3 we do include 12A in that potential portfolio of 4 redesigns, simply so we have time to consider it in 5 context -- in the greater context of the expanded 6 portfolio. 7 THE CHAIRMAN: Before we proceed with 8 that motion, I just would like to ask the Mint if 9 there would be time for such a consideration. 10 MS. STAFFORD: Well, so certainly, we 11 have future American Liberty portfolios that we will 12 be bringing. 13 portfolios in front of you, if not before. 14 with certainty, we can say -- we can go back and work 15 with this artist to develop a complimentary reverse. 16 Or even other artists; open it out to them for 17 potential. 18 Every two years, we will be putting And so, Regarding whether or not for a 2025 19 issuance, I would have to check with our production 20 and planning team to be honest. 21 little -- we -- typically, we deliver designs to our 22 manufacturing counterparts for 2025 program. Typically, we're a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 So Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 231 1 that -- that would be my pause. But then again, I 2 believe this committee is going to try to offer 3 default recommendation, which in the event that we 4 couldn't meet that timeline, we would have materials 5 to move forward with a 2025 option. 6 THE CHAIRMAN: 7 Mike, your hand is raised. 8 Did you have a comment? 9 MR. MORAN: 10 11 Okay. Yes, I do. April, will you put reverse 23 up there next to obverse 2? 12 To me -- if there is something wrong 13 with the anatomy of the eagle, and I don't see it at 14 this level, it certainly can be fixed. 15 it is the fact that the -- the stylistic fonts on the 16 reverse are compatible with the obverse. 17 style is decent; it's circular, with the head -- being 18 circular as well. 19 this. But why I like And the I don't see anything wrong with I think it's a good design, and a good match. 20 Unfortunately, two can't do eagles 21 because there are eagle pairings often. 22 this one. But I like I think it's -- I think it's good, and I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 232 1 think we should go with it. 2 THE CHAIRMAN: 3 Mike. 4 then? All right. Thank you, Would you like to make a motion to that effect 5 MR. MORAN: -- shoot it down. I'll 6 move that we combine R23 with O2, for the silver 7 medal. 8 THE CHAIRMAN: Is there a second? 9 MR. SAUNDERS: I second. 10 THE CHAIRMAN: John has seconded it. 11 think we've discussed this to death, so why don't we 12 just go ahead and vote? 13 All those in favor, "aye." 14 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 15 THE CHAIRMAN: 16 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 17 THE CHAIRMAN: 18 Aye. Any opposed? Nay. The motion does not carry. 19 All right. Kellen, so -- 20 MR. HOARD: I don't have a vote -- 21 THE CHAIRMAN: 22 No. Or, Dennis, that there was -- www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 233 1 MR. TUCKER: No, I think we -- I think 2 we voted on a motion and have our recommendation to 3 the Secretary. 4 THE CHAIRMAN: 5 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 6 7 8 9 10 Right. What's the silver -THE CHAIRMAN: So we do not, at this point, have a silver reverse. MR. TUCKER: Oh, right. Well, in that case, we would default. 11 Yeah, as April said. 12 would default to our gold obverse reverse pairing. 13 But we ask the Mint for an expanded portfolio for the 14 reverse of the silver medal to accompany obverse 2. 15 That's our -- our letter to the Secretary. 16 17 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. If necessary, we Does it -- do we need a motion on that, or is it -- 18 MR. SCARINCI: No. 19 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. 20 MR. SCARINCI: We have it. 21 THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. 22 MR. HOARD: I just had a quick question www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 234 1 about that. So if that's our default, does that mean 2 that if we can't get another reverse for the silver 3 considered in time, that there would be no Statue of 4 Liberty silver medal? 5 6 There would be -- it MR. SCARINCI: Statue of Liberty MS. STAFFORD: If -- if this body's would be the -- 7 8 MS. STAFFORD: with -- 9 10 recommendation were selected by the Secretary, it 11 would be the sunflower obverse, and that circular 12 eagle reverse for both the gold coin and the silver 13 medal. 14 convention of the same design being used across both. That in essence, we would retain the 15 MR. HOARD: Okay. 16 MS. STAFFORD: But we would be coming 17 back to you one way or another, with complimentary 18 reverses for that design. 19 THE CHAIRMAN: Donald. 20 MR. SCARINCI: You know, I -- just -- 21 just to remind everybody, this is an experimental 22 series. I mean, we -- we conceived as an experimental www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 235 1 series. So you know -- you know, we're pushing -- 2 we're pushing it; right? 3 have the gold and the silver as the same for this 4 time, we could live with it; right? 5 And -- and if we have to We accomplished a lot, and -- and we 6 have a series that is, by its own nature, 7 experimental. 8 would be expensive, but if it's available in silver, 9 people can buy it. 10 11 So yeah, it's an expensive -- the gold THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah. All right. Thank you very much. 12 Any final comments before we conclude? 13 All right. 14 Harcourt? 15 DR. FULLER: 16 THE CHAIRMAN: Well -- No. All right. Well, I do 17 have to thank you all for this afternoon and the 18 morning sessions as well. 19 that we have accomplished quite a bit this afternoon. 20 I'm really quite happy to see where we are going with 21 this program. 22 with, you know, the direction and the designs. I have to agree with Donald I think that it really is spectacular www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 236 1 And I just really have to hand it to 2 the AIP artists as well as the Mint for putting 3 together this absolutely stunning portfolio. 4 obviously has taken quite a bit of work on the part of 5 everybody. 6 congratulations to all of you for work very well done. And so, I'd just like to offer my 7 8 And with that, we will recess until 9:00 o'clock tomorrow morning. 9 10 Thank you very much. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: THE CHAIRMAN: 12 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Oh. THE CHAIRMAN: 9:00. 15 breakfast, and 9:00 for -- 16 MS. WARREN: 17 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 9:00 a.m. 8:00 o'clock for breakfast. THE CHAIRMAN: 20 All right. 22 8:00 for 9:00 a.m. 19 21 No, it says, "9:00." 14 18 -- the itinerary says, "8:00." 11 13 It Yeah. Mike, good to see you, even virtually. MS. WARREN: We concluded at 3:51. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 237 1 Thank you. 2 (Whereupon, the meeting concluded at 3 3:51 p.m.) 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 238 1 CERTIFICATE 2 I, MATTHEW YANCEY, the officer before whom 3 the foregoing proceedings were taken, do hereby 4 certify that any witness(es) in the foregoing 5 proceedings, prior to testifying, were duly sworn; 6 that the proceedings were recorded by me and 7 thereafter reduced to typewriting by a qualified 8 transcriptionist; that said digital audio recording of 9 said proceedings are a true and accurate record to the 10 best of my knowledge, skills, and ability; that I am 11 neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any 12 of the parties to the action in which this was taken; 13 and, further, that I am not a relative or employee of 14 any counsel or attorney employed by the parties 15 hereto, nor financially or otherwise interested in the 16 outcome of this action. 17 Dated: 18 May 1, 2024 <%29511,Signature%> 19 MATTHEW YANCEY 20 Notary Public in and for the 21 District of Columbia 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 16, 2024 Page 239 1 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER 2 I, MOLLY MCCOLM, do hereby certify that this 3 transcript was prepared from the digital audio 4 recording of the foregoing proceeding, that said 5 transcript is a true and accurate record of the 6 proceedings to the best of my knowledge, skills, and 7 ability; that I am neither counsel for, related to, 8 nor employed by any of the parties to the action in 9 which this was taken; and, further, that I am not a 10 relative or employee of any counsel or attorney 11 employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or 12 otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. 13 Dated: 14 May 1, 2024 15 16 <%25728,Signature%> 17 MOLLY MCCOLM 18 19 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting [& - 1900] & & 4:3 0 002 33:16 006 34:18 01 95:9 02 33:1,16 36:13 43:19 44:8 55:11 03 43:19 44:7 91:1,1 95:16 04 33:4 05 159:12 06 33:4 159:11 159:11 160:17 07 91:2 09 188:5 1 1 4:13 10:15 17:13 23:9,19 29:7 45:19 64:1,6 78:11 78:13 79:22 80:2 81:11,16 85:12,13 86:4 92:8 97:16,19 97:22 98:3,18 99:14,19 100:18 103:3 106:6 109:2,7 110:3 111:13 112:18 113:19 114:21,21 115:6 116:9 117:11 118:8 122:7,11 123:2 April 16, 2024 Page 1 126:21 127:6 128:1,10 129:16 131:14 133:4 135:3 136:8 140:5,10 142:8,14,14,18 142:19,22 143:13 147:16 151:15 152:14 152:20 153:4 167:11 168:21 171:14,15 173:19 174:4 187:2 189:4,16 189:17,17 204:14 205:12 216:17 222:7 238:18 239:14 1-12 105:9 10 28:8 91:8 152:14 168:1 169:5 204:18 100 67:11 152:21 158:14 10:01 1:6 5:5 11 88:10 105:5 116:8 129:22 152:14 153:4 168:2 170:18 170:22 175:12 175:13 204:14 204:18,22 205:5,7,17 117-334 19:16 11:20 63:6 11:45 128:20 11a 88:10 105:6 130:1 12 4:6 88:10 130:1 152:15 153:5 162:21 164:14,16 165:6 167:5 168:2 169:5 171:1,2 175:19 175:20 178:17 180:14 184:14 185:15,20,20 191:21 199:21 200:12 204:18 206:2,15 213:9 214:1 222:5,5 12's 166:2,16 192:15 12:00 79:1 12a 178:17 201:4 205:17 206:13,21 207:3 213:8,10 213:22 214:2 214:16 215:16 219:11 222:4 226:9,11,14,16 226:21 228:4 230:3 12c 201:3,3 13 4:7 95:5 129:17 152:15 153:5 168:5 169:6 188:8 204:19 205:1 205:19 13c 172:4 14 18:18 20:1 64:4 152:15 153:5 168:5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 169:8,10,20 188:10 204:19 205:19 15 152:15 153:5 164:12 178:7 181:19 204:20 205:19 15's 169:11 150 4:16 16 1:5 4:8 5:4 129:16 152:15 153:5 164:12 189:9 204:20 205:1,20 16's 169:11 17 7:11 64:10 66:21 152:15 153:5 168:10 169:12 182:14 204:20,22 205:20 18 4:11 14:14 152:15 153:5 168:11 169:12 188:16 204:19 204:21 205:21 1870s 173:14 1880s 173:14 18th 17:21 19 64:8,13 152:15 153:5 166:5,16 168:11,12 169:14 182:8 200:16 204:21 205:21 1900 102:20 105:18 Meeting [1941 - 2:00] 1941 60:3 1943 60:3 1950s 43:7 57:8 1955 18:19 20:1 31:18,22 1960s 57:8 1999 105:21,22 1:00 128:17 2 2 23:9,19 29:8 30:13 31:1 32:2 37:4,11 38:1,11 40:16 41:7 42:5,16 43:10 45:4 46:22 53:11,13 58:20 64:1,7 64:13 68:1,4 70:15 72:2,4 74:18 75:9 81:16 86:10,17 91:2 103:12 109:3 115:12 129:16 130:1,9 142:8,15 152:14 153:4 161:19 162:2,2 166:19 167:14 167:16 168:18 168:21 170:10 172:17 177:14 180:2 183:13 187:5 189:5 190:8 195:1 197:15 199:5 199:11,20 204:14 205:13 April 16, 2024 Page 2 207:5 208:19 210:1 211:4 213:7,22 216:17 220:21 221:5 222:12 222:16 223:4 224:3 225:19 226:10,22 227:19 228:4 231:11 233:14 2's 41:9 166:19 20 152:15 153:5 168:12 169:17 204:15 204:21 205:22 200 60:5 2000 80:9 105:18 2003 19:11 21:9 2009 79:22 84:2 2015 49:6 151:9 2018 13:13 127:2 2019 127:2 2020 81:6 2021 15:12 165:14 175:7 2022 14:10 19:4 127:3 20220 1:11 2023 14:14 24:3 36:2 57:13 65:4,9 158:14 2024 1:5 4:5 5:5 7:11 11:12 161:21 238:18 239:14 2025 4:15 7:18 150:12 151:14 151:20,21 153:11 165:10 203:5 230:18 230:22 231:5 2026 4:13 7:17 10:15 78:10,12 80:10 81:3 92:8 94:19 111:7 113:15 128:10 20th 13:15 21 152:15 153:5 164:15 169:17 204:22 205:22 21st 17:22 154:4 22 64:1,13 129:20 152:15 153:5 164:15 168:13 169:17 174:6,7 181:12 204:22 205:17 206:1,15 209:22 23 152:15 153:6 155:22 160:20 164:15 168:18 169:19 186:11 204:22 206:1 209:2 220:22 221:5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 225:9 231:10 24 7:19 150:13 151:8,15 152:15 153:11 159:17 168:14 171:9 174:14 174:15 177:8 185:2 203:6 205:1 206:15 24c 200:12 24k 4:15 25 89:12 152:16 165:11 166:16 168:14 171:11 172:22 174:22 177:19 181:1 205:1 206:15 250 202:15 250th 18:10 81:4 94:22 96:16 25728 239:16 25a 152:16 205:1 25c 167:5 171:12 26 152:16 168:15 205:2 26na 91:1,2 27 4:5 11:11 152:16 155:21 168:15 205:2 28 20:1 29511 238:18 2:00 150:2,7 Meeting [3 - 8c] 3 3 23:17,19 25:16 29:10 38:1 41:10 42:6 43:14 62:11 64:2,8 64:13 68:6,9 68:17,18 69:10 69:11 70:6,8 70:15 72:2 74:5,7 76:15 81:11,16 86:20 87:5 89:15 91:20 97:18,19 98:4 103:13 105:12 106:13 109:4 110:22 111:10 112:20 115:15 122:11 122:11 123:6 124:4,12,22 129:17 130:9 130:14 131:14 133:1,10 135:5 135:10,11,12 136:8 140:5,10 142:14,18,19 143:1,13 147:16 152:14 153:4 161:14 167:18 168:21 187:17 199:21 204:16 205:13 216:17 30 63:22 129:16 172:22 204:9 205:12 April 16, 2024 Page 3 3:07 203:18 3:17 203:19,21 3:20 204:1 3:51 236:22 237:3 3a 23:17 64:3 3s 135:2,14 4 4 23:17,19 29:18 30:17 32:9 38:12 43:2,22 44:15 45:7 64:3,9 66:8,15,17,18 74:22 87:10 104:8 109:6,6 115:16 129:17 152:14 153:4 167:18 168:21 189:6 204:16 205:14 4512 100:4 4:00 5:8 4a 23:17 64:4 87:10 129:18 5 5 4:3 23:17 24:11 64:4,9 87:10 101:6,13 101:21 104:12 109:9 115:17 129:18 152:14 153:4 162:10 162:18 167:19 168:22 187:20 191:7,10 199:21 204:16 205:14 50,000 20:13 5th 82:8 6 6 15:12 23:17 24:11 28:5 29:15 37:19 41:6 46:3,3 47:7 64:5,10 68:6,9 69:7,10 69:11,20 72:3 72:4 81:11,16 87:10,17 96:5 104:18 106:21 106:22 107:1 109:13 112:4,5 115:18 117:18 120:19 121:14 129:19 133:4 144:15,15 152:14 153:4 162:15 167:21 167:21 169:1 183:22 191:7 191:13 192:22 199:21 201:3,4 204:16 205:15 6's 162:20 60s 129:9 6590121 1:17 6a 87:22 129:19 7 7 24:16 25:17 26:5 28:6 37:13 47:7 64:10 81:11,16 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 87:22 96:12 101:6,13 105:2 105:13 109:21 112:16,20 116:1,1 117:4 117:22 119:2 123:12 127:18 129:20 130:13 131:9,19 132:16 133:4 133:10 134:7 134:22 135:19 136:22 139:18 140:10,12 143:8,11,14 152:14 153:4 167:21,21 169:4 204:17 205:15 78 4:13 7a 24:16 25:17 64:11 8 8 28:6 88:10 105:3 129:21 152:14 153:4 163:3,3 164:6 164:12 165:4 169:4 171:19 178:2 184:5 191:7,13 199:21 204:17 205:16 801 1:10 8c 178:20 Meeting [9 - aesthetic] 9 9 88:10 129:22 152:14 153:4 167:22 169:5 178:2 204:17 205:16 999 151:16 152:21 9:00 5:10 236:8 236:13,14,15 236:16,17 9th 1:10 a a.m. 1:6 5:10 236:16,17 abbreviated 142:9 ability 238:10 239:7 able 20:5 52:6 66:18 71:4 84:2 127:4 140:22 158:11 207:16 218:16 above 77:22 171:22 222:4 absence 119:22 120:11,12 absolutely 68:22 78:20,21 90:10,17 140:22 174:11 178:12 236:3 abstain 228:11 229:15 abstentions 229:14 April 16, 2024 Page 4 abstract 164:8 accept 144:19 219:21 accepted 60:7 accepting 50:4 accessible 213:13 accommodate 152:12 accompanied 80:13 accompanies 215:9 accompany 214:21 233:14 accomplished 235:5,19 accomplishm... 14:2 accordance 79:22 accuracy 144:5 accurate 238:9 239:5 acknowledge 107:2 155:20 acorn 168:8 188:14 acquitted 20:7 act 19:3 24:2 34:21 36:2 37:17,20 57:12 65:4,9 72:1,7 80:1 81:6 99:1 action 45:11,18 45:21 68:14,19 69:2,8 100:20 136:7 181:7 188:5 238:12 238:16 239:8 239:12 actions 17:17 20:20 138:7 active 74:6,10 162:22 activity 101:22 187:13 actor 98:7 99:4 actors 94:17 96:4 actual 54:3 actually 32:1 32:17 34:15 50:10,22 53:8 54:12 78:15 89:6 95:21 99:16 102:21 105:21 115:4 117:19 139:1 139:15 162:7 167:7 177:6,6 177:19 195:12 199:15 201:17 202:2 209:17 221:10 222:9 add 56:20 72:1 90:8 177:22 addition 124:22,22 130:13 additional 24:2 24:13 61:1 86:2,15 87:3 87:15 88:2 90:19 91:17 120:21 227:5,6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 227:7 229:20 additions 143:2 address 30:8 31:7 47:15 118:12 174:14 addressed 11:6 27:8 147:8 178:22 adds 109:9 167:6 adjust 77:22 admiration 179:14 admit 47:2 187:5 ado 22:22 adolph 164:18 adopt 213:7,8 226:21 adoption 74:17 advantage 175:11 advice 30:9 97:3 advised 131:17 advising 14:21 advisor 3:17 10:21 13:18 40:1 82:1 advisors 49:1 advisory 1:1 5:4 12:12 14:17 15:14 21:14 advocating 21:6 197:16 aesthetic 107:21 108:1 Meeting [aesthetic - angel] 118:15 175:16 177:15 179:2 aesthetically 119:4 aesthetics 117:18 119:11 131:20 138:4 affairs 2:4 3:11 3:12 9:18 10:3 10:4 81:13 84:2 86:5 87:6 88:5 97:14 137:9 affected 22:12 affects 42:20 42:20 african 18:7 afternoon 193:7 235:17 235:19 afterward 31:19 age 13:21 48:21 129:5 144:4,10 176:10 182:19 agency 94:16 107:4 agenda 7:9 18:8 150:3,10 aggressive 190:2 ago 13:5 192:20 agree 16:6 35:9 42:15 69:20 103:14 106:7 106:10,14,18 April 16, 2024 Page 5 109:2 122:3 138:19 139:9 149:3 198:7 235:18 agreement 186:10 216:20 ahead 16:21 25:14 47:19 52:16 53:3 56:8 77:11,13 78:22 133:21 134:1 214:10 220:17 232:12 aid 17:19 81:1 87:4 91:1 95:21 96:2 122:8 aiding 17:18 aim 193:18 aip 154:14 236:2 airman 60:7 airmen 40:1 49:8 60:4,9 akin 3:17 10:21 82:2 alexander 15:5 alfen 1:4 2:5 7:5 59:20 allegorical 192:8 allies 84:14,17 87:16 89:5 91:9 95:22 122:8 124:5,6 allow 35:3 allowed 20:14 50:1 allowing 22:19 ally 90:5 138:12,13 alongside 87:11 alternate 214:12 216:13 alternative 136:7 alvin 49:6 amazing 121:4 121:20 127:5 162:21 180:14 amend 219:1 amendment 141:6 144:3,19 219:17,22 230:1,2 amendments 143:1 america 21:11 54:13 85:12 91:11 152:20 153:2 160:20 196:20 200:13 200:19 america's 124:5 american 2:11 4:13,15 6:5 7:17 10:15 13:15 17:5,12 17:16 18:7 69:5 78:11,13 79:22 80:14 81:14,16 86:6 86:18 87:18 88:6 92:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 94:16,22 95:5 96:9 97:15 102:18 107:19 111:5 113:4,19 116:6 119:11 124:10 127:1,2 128:10 137:9 150:12 151:8 151:14 152:18 153:11 156:14 156:15 158:13 159:1 161:15 165:11,14,15 165:17,18,19 165:22 166:6 166:13 173:9 173:11 175:8 199:13 203:6 208:8 212:1 230:11 americans 36:17 80:3,5 94:21 95:4 98:1 107:10 121:19 174:19 amidst 20:17 amount 101:16 126:22 anatomically 185:16 225:10 anatomy 231:13 ancestor 82:7 ancient 188:19 196:16 angel 33:22 36:14 Meeting [angeles - artist] angeles 39:22 angelic 40:20 anger 40:8 41:17 animal 165:20 175:8 181:10 annelisa 2:20 7:1 33:8,9 35:11 100:2,9 102:12 179:10 179:12 183:2 anniversary 18:11 81:4 95:1 announce 5:14 annually 80:1 answer 93:3 129:4 137:7 162:9 172:18 answer's 172:20 answered 55:13 answers 173:9 anti 44:4 anticipated 148:20 antilynching 19:3 anybody 55:10 56:4 anybody's 197:10 anyone's 197:13 anyway 22:7 39:4,6 44:17 103:2 197:12 April 16, 2024 Page 6 apologies 57:1 77:9 83:7 apologize 39:18 63:10 72:22 83:13 139:14 166:1 appeal 30:15 30:20 131:19 appealing 28:10 39:6 43:9 165:5 appear 17:16 appointed 13:13 appreciate 33:13 57:20 60:19 78:5 79:16 85:1 96:5 97:2 121:16 122:7 122:21 178:13 appreciated 29:7,13 74:13 appreciating 94:15 appreciation 149:19 appreciations 77:2 appreciative 121:12 approach 161:1,10 approaches 165:9 appropriate 65:12 90:14 120:20 136:13 144:10 156:6 163:7 191:2 222:12 224:21 225:5 approval 4:4 7:10 11:9 228:4 approve 11:14 134:7 135:18 139:17 approved 12:10 approximately 5:8 april 1:5 2:22 5:4 8:15 14:13 19:16,21 24:18 28:5 64:18 71:3,14 78:11 78:14 79:17 88:13 132:20 136:15 150:14 151:5 153:8 166:4 184:1 203:3 211:9 215:14 226:1 231:10 233:11 arch 99:6 archives 13:18 area 26:5 arm 188:14 arms 23:11 army 39:22 48:17 81:1 86:11 93:17 118:4 array 172:14 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 arrows 166:7 189:21 192:10 art 26:22 29:4 30:2 40:5 43:15 44:7 117:1,2 135:20 136:1 159:19 159:19,19 162:5,7,12,17 173:11 180:6 186:19,20 188:1 189:13 191:4 194:21 197:3,5,14,15 199:14,15,16 215:6,8 216:10 217:17,19,21 art's 199:14 artform 180:3 187:10 194:19 195:2 arthur 2:7 5:20 27:1 29:5 articulable 46:6 artist 32:12 41:22 50:7 62:15 90:11 121:20 152:5 157:15 160:4,7 160:8 161:14 161:19 162:2 162:10,15,18 162:20 163:3,3 163:12,17,22 164:2,6,12,14 164:16 165:6 166:2,15,19 Meeting [artist - back] 167:5,13 170:7 177:5 189:16 189:16 190:8 191:10,13,13 191:21 192:15 192:22 197:9 199:5 200:12 201:3,3 202:15 207:17,18 210:22 215:16 215:17 216:6 217:7,14 230:15 artistic 43:8,13 61:21 62:14 68:18 127:4 154:3,18 155:8 173:21 artistically 103:3 artists 31:13 38:22 61:20,22 62:6,6,9 90:13 94:14 108:2 154:15,17,17 154:19 155:2,3 155:4,4,6,6,15 156:19 157:11 157:12,17 161:13 172:9 172:15 176:18 184:1 191:7 193:18,19,19 193:19 197:6 199:3,20 207:16 217:8 230:16 236:2 April 16, 2024 Page 7 artwork 179:20 asian 162:22 aside 38:17 asked 57:9 147:1 172:21 215:20 asking 217:5 aspect 58:12 70:5 aspects 31:2 aspirational 58:22 assigned 207:15 assignment 202:12,15 assistance 113:17 assistant 3:15 10:19 81:21 assume 67:4 160:4 ate 82:14 attempt 112:5 attendance 8:10 attendees 2:2 3:2 20:14 attending 149:20 attention 98:9 99:6 150:17 202:21 212:4 attorney 238:14 239:10 attracted 159:11,12,12 attractive 103:10 104:11 audience 63:11 157:8 audiences 31:21 audio 50:17,22 212:13 238:8 239:3 august 19:22 aunt 82:8 australia 14:1 14:3 austria 14:1 author 13:19 177:11 authority 151:11 authorized 19:16 81:5 151:10 authorizes 40:10 ava 165:4 available 94:9 235:8 avant 183:22 aviation 60:20 await 75:10 award 4:7 7:12 12:13,16 13:12 14:17,19 15:4 15:15 16:16 159:2 165:15 awarded 15:10 19:6 62:1 awards 159:5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 aware 7:22 133:5 158:22 159:1,1 awesome 155:7 awful 177:21 awfully 167:22 aye 12:5,6 65:19,20 76:7 76:8 141:19,20 145:2,3 220:10 220:11 224:8,9 224:13 227:10 227:11 228:5,6 232:13,14 b b 105:6 157:5 213:6 baby 20:12 back 13:6 14:11 16:15 20:9 31:4 32:11 53:13 54:18 56:2 63:6,8 70:19 72:5,19 79:6 116:9 128:17 128:19,20 129:1 136:8 137:19 140:5 141:3 144:9 150:9 156:16 161:3,4 164:17 173:14 182:3 182:17 184:10 185:21 188:18 190:12 191:22 194:5 202:21 Meeting [back - boat] 202:22 203:13 203:19,21 204:1,2 226:11 230:14 234:17 background 23:22 85:18,21 87:1 103:6 106:10 127:8 bad 27:22 43:17 109:19 145:21 146:10 184:3 195:12 209:11 badass 175:21 baijal 3:7 9:8 9:10 balance 31:20 95:17 119:5 bald 87:11 baseball 78:4 based 112:8 122:1,14 124:7 151:10 basically 118:18 176:1 basis 43:14 basket 86:21 88:1 baskets 88:1 beaten 20:2 beautiful 14:18 50:8 123:22 124:11 138:1 138:12 173:21 209:9 beckoned 199:22 April 16, 2024 Page 8 becoming 123:7 bee 162:16 180:16 184:16 beginning 38:19 49:19 64:18 156:17 189:16 beginnings 196:17 behalf 3:18 10:22 16:14 50:4 82:2 83:16 121:7 believe 7:7 26:10 57:5 58:3 67:19 69:17 72:6,20 73:3 74:14 93:5 105:20 119:7 125:12 126:9 129:4 187:14 197:22 210:18 212:7 213:9 214:1 219:12 231:2 bell 158:5 168:1 188:5 belmonte 3:15 10:19 81:21 82:19 83:1,7 83:11 88:15 90:20 91:16,18 123:17,19 126:8 139:6,8 149:21 bending 104:13 bends 99:1 benefit 30:10 bernstein 2:7 5:20,22 27:1,2 27:10 29:4,5,6 117:2,2 135:20 135:20 136:1 186:20,20 205:4,9 217:18 217:21,21 best 41:9 43:14 63:13 97:21 103:13 107:8 115:7 122:12 156:5 216:17 216:17,17 238:10 239:6 beth 165:13 better 38:11 39:3 48:8 52:3 52:9,16 103:13 105:7 109:19 113:1 130:19 147:19 184:19 beyond 46:5 biannual 151:12 bias 118:16 big 154:2 170:13 176:19 199:14 206:13 bigger 102:5 120:6 166:20 biggest 155:7 197:6 bill 109:7 bios 179:15 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 bird 104:2,6 bison 165:12 165:17,19 174:21 175:1,3 176:22 177:19 181:3,6 192:15 192:17 bit 22:10 23:15 25:18 45:4 47:13 56:10 77:11 80:12 89:9 96:7,7,10 103:14,16 106:11 116:1 120:9 121:21 130:19 135:8 137:21 138:9 161:12 162:3 176:12 178:6 183:21 192:17 235:19 236:4 black 25:18 26:13 39:20 blanket 86:2 blankets 82:11 85:22 86:11 91:3 110:1 blatant 36:20 blazing 171:16 blemish 112:2 bless 49:21 blew 212:20 bloated 82:15 block 185:5 blown 114:15 board 70:19 boat 157:21 Meeting [body - capacity] body 20:4,9,15 60:7 118:19 body's 234:9 boil 97:12 boiled 97:21 bold 153:20 157:10 171:13 207:5 219:18 boldness 170:5 boneza 3:6 9:5 book 113:7 155:4 161:13 165:3,16 193:19 books 23:20 29:20 38:7 57:13,13 165:3 border 34:7 born 17:21 21:1 bothered 111:19 bottom 118:21 bowing 99:2 bowl 86:11 bows 98:22 box 62:12 boys 43:8 braid 105:10 brainer 211:2 217:6,15 brains 179:17 branches 102:1 166:7 192:9,9 bravery 45:17 break 44:16 63:6 78:16 128:16 150:1 April 16, 2024 Page 9 150:21 203:12 203:15,16 breakfast 236:15,18 breaking 28:21 167:6 194:10 brearley 113:7 breath 208:10 brendan 3:11 10:2 brevity 179:22 brief 58:6 107:13,17 116:14,15 briefly 13:6 16:15 bring 36:14 72:19 91:12,13 92:17 100:16 132:21 141:3 161:14 202:21 202:22 bringing 17:14 57:22 84:20 92:18 177:14 230:12 brings 36:14 40:5 166:11 brining 77:5 britain 95:7 194:11 broad 156:6 broader 81:2 94:19 222:6 broken 200:17 bronco 175:8 177:20 192:19 bronze 15:5,6,9 36:8 brought 20:9 91:12 150:17 brown 35:14 35:19 60:2,3,8 60:15 brutality 40:13 bucking 175:7 175:9 177:20 buffalo 165:20 169:10 200:4,5 200:9 209:5 buffalos 185:9 185:11 building 197:8 built 166:9 bullion 15:1 166:13 buried 86:14 bushels 80:16 business 11:9 12:11 busy 95:12 106:11 109:3,4 118:10 123:3 180:15 187:19 busyness 118:18 126:20 butterflies 187:18 button 127:3 buy 103:1 176:1,3 209:17 235:9 buying 213:14 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 c c 2:1 3:1 4:1 5:1 18:5 178:17 201:4 cabins 86:14 call 4:3,3 5:3 5:19 8:4 22:19 50:20 77:19 104:4 116:19 145:11 called 8:11 84:14 104:21 197:2 calling 49:18 camera 51:13 campaign 3:13 10:14 21:4,22 candidate 4:9 4:12,14 7:14 7:16,18 17:13 18:2 19:18,18 21:13 23:3,7 24:17 27:7 59:12 62:20 71:4 75:11 78:10,12 85:10 88:11 128:9 135:18 139:18 150:12 151:18 152:17 153:6 203:5 candidates 18:9 70:17 canvas 127:9 164:11 capacity 137:11 Meeting [cape - chairman] cape 98:9 capitol 15:11 15:12 49:18 capozzola 2:10 6:5,7 31:9,11 31:12 47:16 94:9,10,11 107:13,15,16 125:14,15 176:16,17 capture 115:19 115:19 captures 41:13 136:22 173:13 care 42:21 77:10 185:9 career 33:4 cares 43:1 caricature 121:22 caricatured 121:19 carried 162:11 carries 41:17 65:22 76:10 88:1 145:16 220:13 224:12 carry 229:16 232:18 carrying 80:16 86:10 cartoon 108:2 112:6 cartooning 107:18 cartoonish 96:7 104:21 107:3,20 April 16, 2024 Page 10 121:17 123:8 carving 159:18 159:18 174:18 case 17:4 21:6 26:4 92:19 110:20 132:6 148:13,16,18 177:1 184:21 192:9 195:1,18 216:4 218:12 233:10 casket 20:10 24:12 29:17 34:18 35:4,8 67:1,2,7 69:21 70:2 catalyst 20:21 catching 173:16 category 178:8 caucus 81:14 86:18 88:6 caught 182:5 183:18 188:2 cause 19:9 43:22 44:8 50:2 80:14 114:15 144:5 173:22 176:9 198:21 199:6 200:3 211:14 caveat 130:8 ccac 2:4,6,21 3:10 5:8 7:6,13 7:21 9:19,22 11:10 12:19 13:13 14:4,4,7 14:15,19,20 15:7,22 16:14 38:17 63:4,16 71:8 73:10 128:14 129:13 150:8 204:3 211:22 cede 179:6 celebrate 18:1 18:15 80:3 98:1 celebrated 194:19 celebrating 17:1 18:10 68:21 69:1 81:3 102:17 187:15 celebration 18:18 celia 3:15 10:19 81:21 82:21 83:18 149:21 cell 50:21 cements 146:22 center 94:16 96:14 98:20 99:7 centric 182:14 182:15 century 13:15 17:21,22 18:22 142:20 154:4 ceremony 7:12 certain 188:1,1 certainly 29:9 39:1 88:19 90:18 110:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 118:2 125:21 149:12 183:19 190:7 230:10 231:14 certainty 230:14 certificate 15:4 238:1 239:1 certify 238:4 239:2 cetera 31:3 59:4 72:2 194:4,4 cfa 71:8 211:22 chain 200:18 chains 186:7 chair 4:8 21:3 74:6 90:8 96:22 126:17 128:4,21 138:21 147:3 150:8 161:7 225:2 chairman 5:2 6:1,4,8,11,14 6:17,20 7:1,4,9 8:6,15,18,21 9:2,5,8,11,14 9:17,21 10:2,6 11:16,19 12:2 12:7 16:11 24:17,18 25:10 25:14,22 26:17 26:20 27:11 28:15,20 29:2 30:1,4 31:8 33:7 35:11 39:7,13,15 Meeting [chairman - check] 42:9,10 44:10 46:19 47:22 49:11 50:12,15 51:3,8 52:15 55:12 56:6 57:3,18 58:7 59:9,17 60:14 60:18 61:5 62:17 63:8 64:15 65:14,21 66:5,12 67:17 69:12,16,18 71:2,13 72:6 72:11,15,20 73:2,8,12,15 73:17,19,22 74:12 75:7,15 75:20 76:3,9 76:20 78:7,18 78:20 79:5,12 79:17 88:11,12 88:22 90:17 91:14,21 92:4 93:22 96:19 99:21,22 100:7 102:11 105:14 105:22 107:11 108:5,9,11 110:12 114:10 116:12,15,22 117:6,16 119:13,19 120:16 122:17 123:16 124:13 124:17,19 125:10 126:2,7 126:11 128:5 128:22 129:10 April 16, 2024 Page 11 130:3,12,17 131:4,7 132:2 132:11,15 133:11,13,16 133:22 134:3,8 134:12 135:15 135:22 136:15 136:19 138:15 139:5,11,17,21 140:2,8,11,16 140:19,20 141:5,10,15,21 142:2,13,17,21 143:4,10,16,19 144:1,18,21 145:4,10,15,22 146:12 148:2 149:15 150:9 153:7,15,17 155:14 161:4 166:21 169:21 172:10 176:14 179:8,11 183:1 183:6 186:17 189:13 193:13 195:5,17 196:4 196:5,7,9,11 196:13 197:20 198:4,10,15 201:6,16 202:7 203:1,16,20 204:2 205:6,10 206:3,18 207:10 208:14 210:6,11,15,17 211:5,7 212:5 212:9,18 214:3 214:5,8,13 215:13,22 216:4,9,12 217:1,4,16,19 218:3,7,18,21 219:4,8,15,21 220:3,8,12 221:1,4,9,16 221:22 222:11 222:19 223:2,5 223:8,13 224:1 224:10,12,14 224:18 225:16 226:4,15,20 227:2,4,8,12 227:17 228:1,7 228:9,12,15,18 228:22 229:3,7 229:13 230:7 231:6 232:2,8 232:10,15,17 232:21 233:4,7 233:16,19,21 234:19 235:10 235:16 236:11 236:14,19 chairperson 2:6 7:6 challenge 156:19 challenges 31:6 chamberlain 3:13 10:13 21:21 22:3,5,7 23:2 24:19 30:11 31:14 33:11 36:5 39:20 41:2 47:14,20 48:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 48:5,11,14 49:13 50:12,13 50:15 51:2,7 51:16 52:2,9 52:12,21 53:4 53:6,15,19 54:17,19,21 55:4,9,14 56:10,12,15,18 57:4,19 58:13 59:15,18,22 60:16,18 63:10 70:18 73:18 74:2,3,4 77:3,7 chamberlain's 38:5 chamberlin 22:2 chance 115:11 115:14 change 125:7 127:14 147:10 changed 21:11 55:17 114:8,9 208:9 changes 119:6 125:5,8 130:14 186:12 changing 95:3 121:16,17 122:8 185:3 chapter 39:22 character 184:7 214:17 charge 35:15 90:12 check 62:12 170:21 230:19 Meeting [cheer - coinage] cheer 13:1 chicago 20:3,9 20:17 chief 2:22 3:8 8:15 9:14 84:11 85:18,21 89:7 98:20 138:7 child 43:16,17 55:20 childhood 54:4 children 171:6 chiseling 185:5 choice 28:2 38:5,6 43:10 66:8,14,20 105:3,13 107:21 108:1 110:6 112:17 117:5 128:3 136:12 209:3 choices 38:11 38:12 44:9 95:7 142:12 143:14 choose 159:8,8 221:20 chose 54:7 chris 33:7 96:20 98:4 104:20 107:13 107:16 114:15 116:10 125:12 125:15 179:9 christian 36:18 36:18 christopher 2:10 6:4 31:9 April 16, 2024 Page 12 31:12 94:8,11 176:16 christopher's 107:2 cia 197:8,8 circles 61:10 circling 54:18 circular 216:2 231:17,18 234:11 circulate 114:1 114:2 circulating 15:1 81:6 211:18 circumference 186:2,3 cities 196:19 citizen 12:12 citizens 1:1 5:3 14:16 15:14 21:14 civil 13:20 19:9 20:21 21:8 40:9 157:1 clarify 138:22 clarifying 211:9 clarity 132:22 134:18 135:8 198:16 clark 17:19 clash 161:17 clasping 200:17 classes 183:20 classic 172:5 177:11 classical 174:4 213:17 clean 113:16 clear 68:2 70:15 112:16 142:13 179:18 clearly 115:6 190:20 clever 29:11 188:15 climate 100:20 cloak 184:9 clods 110:3 close 41:6 52:17 64:10 66:9 68:6 69:10 185:16 204:19 closely 32:9 52:20 188:9 closer 48:3,9 closure 183:15 cloudy 115:11 115:14 clutching 98:9 189:20 cob 93:20 coffey 60:2 coffin 55:16 coin 4:13,15 7:17,19 8:3 10:16 17:13,22 18:10 34:8 35:8,21 60:17 78:11,13 80:1 81:3,6 84:3,16 90:14 92:8 94:19 95:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 97:22 98:16 99:3,8 100:13 102:1,16 103:4 103:22 104:1 107:6,6 108:1 109:11 111:2,8 111:18 112:2 114:1,4 118:1 119:11 122:16 127:3,10,12 128:10 137:2 138:1,3,4 146:15 150:13 150:20,21 151:8,15,19 152:2,19 153:3 153:12 158:15 159:2,8,9,15 162:1,14,16 163:1 165:19 168:13 170:13 173:9 175:7,21 175:22 176:11 181:9 182:2,18 183:21 184:4 186:3,4 188:6 188:7 193:6 195:3 197:16 197:16 198:13 199:12 200:2 201:4,9 203:6 208:9,20,21 209:8,12,17 210:9 211:18 214:1,20 217:15 234:12 coinage 1:1 5:4 12:12 14:16 Meeting [coinage - committee] 15:1,2,14 21:14 49:1 154:5 177:16 coincident 26:8 coincides 81:2 coinnews 8:5 coins 15:17 80:2,7 85:3 101:13 103:8 113:15,18,21 113:22 114:2 115:4 119:7 151:11 159:4 159:13 161:16 166:13 168:22 176:10 178:19 181:3,6 207:20 208:18 209:15 cold 99:13 113:11 colleagues 15:18 17:11 18:13 170:8 collect 176:10 209:15 collected 114:3 collectible 81:6 collecting 36:7 71:10 collection 199:16 collectively 55:21 collector 113:21 165:20 175:22 collectors 104:1 127:12 April 16, 2024 Page 13 181:9 183:21 209:14,18 colonies 95:6 colonists 82:10 82:16 91:5 colorized 209:8 209:9 columbia 238:21 column 61:9,11 195:15 combat 39:21 combination 42:5,6 47:7,9 166:17 200:11 200:12,15,21 209:3 215:15 combinations 215:12 combine 232:6 combined 166:9 combining 166:7 come 48:19,21 57:14 72:5 110:16,17 112:18 135:10 140:5 156:20 157:10,22 161:3,4 168:13 195:19 211:20 comes 36:6 62:2 97:13 109:6 comfort 40:17 126:19 comfortable 131:9 comforting 44:21 comic 155:3 161:13 193:19 coming 28:6 62:10 111:14 113:16 114:9 144:9 171:16 178:4 198:20 234:16 commanded 41:19 commands 98:9 99:5 commemorate 80:11 commemorat... 58:16 69:1 commemorat... 18:10 comment 29:10 61:6 66:21 76:13 105:17 107:2,13,17,17 116:14 119:1 120:21 122:8 122:19 123:6 123:18 129:7 131:5 133:19 134:9,10,14 137:8 138:18 139:7 144:2 202:3 209:10 209:19 231:8 commentary 111:1 158:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 commenters 117:8 comments 4:8 11:12 24:20 26:21 27:12,15 28:16 49:4 61:1 66:15 71:17,20 76:19 77:8 85:2 88:18 90:19 91:17,19 94:2 94:7 98:5 100:1 103:13 104:7 105:15 111:12 115:15 119:3 120:22 122:3,21 123:22 124:14 126:14 148:3 148:13 155:18 156:5 167:9 168:20 186:22 188:17 189:12 189:15 193:9 201:20 235:12 commissioned 197:7,8 committed 14:8 committee 1:1 5:4,18 11:9 12:12 14:8,12 14:17 15:14 16:18,22 18:16 21:14 22:4 24:22 27:15 30:9 37:14 47:1 49:1 Meeting [committee - connection] 57:21 58:2 60:1 62:19 67:10 68:7 81:13 82:4 84:2 86:5 87:6 88:5 92:7 94:5 97:14,17 110:15 124:15 126:14,20 128:9 131:10 135:8 137:8 146:10 147:6 148:3 152:9 153:10 176:18 176:19 187:11 190:6 201:22 203:4 222:8 226:10 231:2 committees 133:6,10 137:13 139:1 148:10 common 117:12 207:2 210:9 211:3 213:18 communicate 31:21 communities 96:11 154:18 compatible 231:16 compelling 34:18 46:18 47:5 69:10 95:20 115:1,17 117:19 162:12 189:17 190:5 191:18 192:16 201:12 competing 109:14 completed 21:10 completely 35:8 42:16 127:19 167:18 completes 185:3 completion 57:22 complex 175:17 complexity 148:9 151:1 complicated 227:16 complied 61:15 complimentary 230:15 234:17 compliments 186:2 component 36:15 computer 48:9 51:6,9 54:17 con 177:9 conceive 157:12 conceived 215:16,18 216:6 226:1 234:22 concentrate 163:8 April 16, 2024 Page 14 concept 47:8 47:17 157:9 181:21,22 191:19 concepts 156:22 conceptually 24:4 concern 115:12 118:9 177:20 182:12 191:14 concerned 103:11 170:17 concerns 35:6 95:13,17 148:6 148:8 concert 215:21 conclude 235:12 concluded 77:1 149:18 236:22 237:2 concludes 24:16 88:11 153:6 189:12 conditional 89:14 conditions 85:17 cone 188:10 confess 118:15 confident 16:13 147:9 confirm 8:9 72:13 73:10 conflict 44:3 212:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 confused 127:14 confusing 163:13 congratulating 15:21 congratulatio... 16:17 172:9 236:6 congress 19:3,6 24:3 31:14 36:1,2 37:17 37:20 49:15 57:12 65:4,9 72:2,7 81:15 86:6 87:18 97:15 137:9 congression 50:4 congressional 4:11 7:15 10:12 15:2,10 19:15,15,19 25:2 26:3 36:6 36:8 37:17 49:7,14 62:21 77:5 81:14 86:18 88:6 133:6 138:22 connected 41:12 connecting 29:19 connection 29:22 40:18 49:10 60:9,11 60:19 70:6 166:14 Meeting [connections - correct] connections 187:18 connects 42:1 consensus 208:4 210:7 222:12 consider 14:11 130:15,16 140:10,12 151:2 155:22 202:9 206:22 208:17 218:1 219:9 226:9 229:21 230:4 consideration 27:14 49:5 76:19 78:9 94:4 101:18 148:15 155:20 189:3 226:11 230:9 considered 54:10 130:10 174:5 193:22 211:14 217:8 234:3 considering 150:22 consistent 113:18 158:21 159:16 160:3 consistently 15:15 constantly 185:3,4 consult 133:7 consultation 21:21 89:10 April 16, 2024 Page 15 121:13 consulted 137:17 consulting 89:12 consumed 194:22 cont'd 3:1,2 contain 23:5 contains 15:4 contemporary 157:8 content 95:8 context 115:5 116:4 127:20 128:2 131:14 173:1 230:5,5 contextualizes 115:2 continent 95:5 continental 81:1 86:11 93:17 118:3 continue 31:7 150:2 198:18 continued 81:1 continues 18:21 continuing 45:15 46:8,16 188:4 contract 61:22 contracts 62:1 62:2 contradicting 147:14 contrast 98:18 135:2 contribute 108:2 contribution 14:20 110:10 contributions 17:2,9 80:3 98:2 116:5 convention 163:10 234:14 conversation 13:2 121:16 140:21 179:7 convey 101:14 conveyed 96:14 181:14 conveys 95:9 95:10 96:1,6 106:12 110:1 convinced 116:1 convincing 131:18 cook 82:12,14 127:22 cool 111:7 119:18 160:18 160:18 168:3 170:19 cooper 10:19 17:14 80:13,18 80:22 81:20 82:7,11 84:20 85:14 86:10,20 87:11,22 89:7 89:13,16 90:3 91:3,8 95:10 95:18 98:13 99:4 101:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 103:15 106:15 106:17 107:5 118:2,19 119:2 119:17 120:6 123:8,13 125:3 125:18 129:5 138:8 cooper's 87:14 109:15 122:1 125:4 copper 84:9 corn 80:17,20 82:12,14,15 85:14 86:11,14 86:21,22 87:2 88:1 91:4,8 92:16,18,20 93:6,16,17,19 93:20 98:8,12 104:3,5 109:11 110:2,7 111:4 125:2,3 144:14 cornelius 3:14 10:16 60:2 81:18 82:5,6,7 88:15 90:16,19 90:21,22 91:15 93:10,11,12,13 93:19 122:18 122:20 126:7 126:10 129:3,6 129:8 138:17 138:19 149:21 corner 105:10 corps 18:11 correct 25:11 71:3 75:12 93:7,12,15 Meeting [correct - december] 105:17 109:22 132:20 143:7 185:16 205:10 215:19 216:8 225:10,20 226:3 corresponding 151:20 152:3 152:22 192:21 225:18 226:5 costello 9:11 61:2 counsel 3:9,9 3:15 9:22,22 10:20 63:4,16 81:21 97:3 128:14 129:13 203:9 204:3 238:11,14 239:7,10 count 145:11 228:13 counterparts 230:22 countless 45:13 country 18:20 20:16 21:2 22:15 31:6 68:15 165:21 190:21 couple 118:6 167:9 174:14 176:22 courage 20:11 40:15 41:14 42:8 59:2 courageous 19:8 20:22 April 16, 2024 Page 16 course 33:4,4 49:2 69:5 73:12 133:5 165:21 171:5 court 77:18 201:16 courthouse 24:8 cousin 50:3 54:13 cover 165:16 coverage 136:21 covered 85:15 covering 41:21 crafted 164:19 crashing 169:3 cream 188:10 create 60:4 184:17 195:15 created 164:16 creates 80:18 199:19 creative 99:15 99:20 157:10 179:2 creatively 115:8 creator 87:14 165:6 creators 193:16 credit 154:11 154:21 155:11 cried 188:6 crier 74:9 crime 19:6 21:11 criminal 187:13 194:1,7 194:12,15 196:21 197:18 cringing 160:10,11,15 criteria 62:14 critical 13:3 critique 107:20 cross 40:21 crowding 182:11 190:18 crown 225:12 crucial 41:3 crucifix 36:21 crux 33:16 cry 74:7 cues 101:15 culture 31:3 89:19 173:9,12 cup 67:2 curator 2:6 7:6 current 109:8 curtain 31:5 customary 23:6 cut 129:4 cute 168:2 cycle 23:6 62:6 62:6 d d 5:1 d.c. 1:11 daily 22:19 damage 187:14 dance 201:14 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 danced 201:18 dandelion 175:15 191:10 dandelions 162:11,19 darker 18:17 darkest 26:5 data 62:8 71:10 date 71:5 143:5 143:6 dated 238:17 239:13 daughter 165:4 188:22 191:22 192:6 david 113:7 day 5:6 49:18 155:22 190:10 225:14 days 20:4 38:20 deal 61:16 177:7 dean 2:21 4:7 7:13 12:13 13:1 16:11 death 21:10 22:12 35:2,4 41:11 54:6 60:9 232:11 debate 64:17 65:16 76:5 136:3 debunk 111:13 111:14 decades 17:20 december 13:13 Meeting [decent - design] decent 231:17 decide 163:10 deciding 130:22 decision 122:13 134:21 137:4 195:3,9 decisions 199:7 deck 190:17 deco 188:2 dedication 14:3 deepest 17:17 deeply 32:3 default 218:11 218:15 231:3 233:10,12 234:1 defender 20:17 defer 119:8 deferring 119:8 define 19:5 definitely 95:16 180:21 199:4 degree 100:15 delinquent 194:3 deliver 230:21 demanded 20:9 demarcated 86:13 demonstrating 20:10 denise 3:17 10:21 82:1 83:15 123:20 124:2 139:10 April 16, 2024 Page 17 149:21 denise's 91:19 dennis 2:18 6:17 11:15 25:4,5,22 39:14 42:10 56:7,7 57:3 59:4 65:15 69:17,19 75:17 75:18 76:1,4 96:21 97:1 99:22 104:20 111:1 114:18 116:11 126:15 126:16 128:5 131:5,8 132:13 139:13,15 142:7 143:21 146:19 161:6 166:21 167:3 169:15 214:10 214:13,15 217:17 225:1,3 227:7 230:1 232:21 dennis's 172:18 denomination 99:15 152:21 209:12 denominator 117:13 department 1:9 14:15 department's 158:18 depict 152:18 depicted 171:5 depicting 88:21 93:3 219:10 121:2,3 126:4 depiction 23:15 126:5 137:3 80:8 84:14 149:21 86:7 87:7,19 design 2:22 3:3 88:8 89:5 3:4,5,6,7 8:16 177:11 190:22 8:19,22 9:2,5,8 191:5 192:5,6 9:12 13:3 202:16 14:22 18:9 depictions 23:10,12,17,20 121:18 151:13 24:4,9,11,16 depicts 24:11 26:9 29:6,8,13 85:14 87:11 31:4,20 32:14 90:5 124:4 34:7,22 38:3 depth 40:18 40:16 41:4,8,9 depths 21:1 41:13 42:16 deputy 3:19 43:2,8,10 44:8 8:12 12:15,17 46:5 47:8,17 13:8,10 50:7 63:22 descendants 64:2,9 67:15 36:9 89:13 67:16 74:18 102:8 75:6,9,10,11 describe 76:15,16,18 104:19 80:10 81:10 described 42:3 85:13,14 86:4 104:20 144:13 86:10,13,17 description 87:5,10,22 72:8 181:13,21 88:4 91:20 descriptions 95:14 96:6,11 113:9 97:16,18 98:3 deserters 113:8 98:4,16,18 desertion 99:4,9 100:18 113:10 102:3 103:3,10 deserving 103:10,12,13 195:2 104:6,8,12,14 desiderio 3:17 107:8 109:12 10:21 82:1,20 109:14 111:10 83:18 88:15,17 111:11 113:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting [design - different] 115:1,9,17 116:7,19 117:20 118:9 118:10,17 119:6 120:10 121:10 122:4 124:4,22 126:21 128:3 129:16 130:9,9 130:13,14,14 130:18 131:11 131:12 132:1,8 133:1,2 135:3 135:18 139:18 142:8,14,14,18 146:10 152:5,9 152:14 154:13 155:1 158:21 159:2,10 162:2 163:8,11,14 164:3 165:7,14 165:21 167:3 167:12 168:4,6 168:8 170:16 171:11 172:20 173:16,21 174:8,16,21 175:10,21 176:11 177:5 177:18 178:8 180:1,14 181:14 183:14 186:1,5,11,21 187:2,5,17,20 188:3,4,8,10 188:12,16 189:4,6,8,9,17 191:12,22 April 16, 2024 Page 18 192:1,4,19 195:10 198:11 201:5 202:20 204:10,13,13 204:14,14,15 205:7,12,13,13 205:14,14,15 205:15,16,16 205:17,17,18 205:19,19,20 205:20,21,21 205:22,22 206:1,1 207:3 207:6 208:9 209:9 210:8 211:17,19 213:16 215:21 219:19 231:19 234:14,18 design's 109:17 designed 145:20 217:7 217:14 designer 120:1 120:5 designers 100:11 179:15 193:16 designing 37:14 designs 4:9,12 4:14 7:14,16 7:18 17:4,14 18:3 19:18 21:14,18,20 23:4,4,7,18 24:17 25:1,7 27:3,7 30:10 31:13 33:12,15 33:19 34:12,15 35:8,9 36:11 37:8,9,10 38:13 42:16 43:3,11 59:12 61:20 62:13,20 64:12 67:10,12 70:21 71:4,5 72:13,19 75:3 75:3,11 78:10 78:12 81:9 84:3 85:10 88:10,11,19 92:8 96:17 97:10,18,21 99:17 100:13 100:15 101:5 101:12 102:7 103:2 105:7 106:20 107:1 114:18 124:1 124:11 128:9 130:16 132:9 133:4,8 136:8 141:3 149:9 150:12,18,20 151:12,18,19 152:1,3,4,8,18 153:2,6,11 156:2,4,20 158:4,8 161:13 163:21 164:13 164:15 171:13 172:14 179:14 182:7,18,18 183:18 186:22 187:19 188:21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 189:2 190:4,6 191:12,14,18 194:13 198:13 203:5 207:1,5 215:7 225:7 229:20 230:21 235:22 desired 47:11 despite 41:19 detail 103:22 121:5 126:22 127:5,10 180:15 182:11 determination 28:12 62:4 determine 21:15 determining 62:9 detract 102:3 detracts 167:7 devastated 70:8 develop 215:20 230:15 developed 21:20 development 15:17 21:16 80:5 died 19:11 diff 154:18 different 22:13 22:16 33:1 67:5 68:12 76:17 116:5 122:22 132:8 154:16 155:5 Meeting [different - dr] 158:9 161:10 161:12,14 165:9 177:13 183:12,18,20 197:3 206:22 210:2 215:4 differentiated 45:15 68:21 differently 210:4 difficult 28:10 30:7 33:13 34:19 148:19 difficulties 63:11 77:9 difficulty 50:17 148:20 digital 238:8 239:3 dignified 41:9 107:6 diluted 36:20 direct 113:13 direction 46:15 148:18 154:7 157:21 235:22 director 2:3 3:19 8:12 9:18 12:15,18 13:8 13:10 18:5,6 dirt 110:2 disagree 146:16,20 174:16 disagreement 216:20 disappointme... 134:15 April 16, 2024 Page 19 disciplines 154:16 disconnected 41:11 discontent 196:18 discourage 141:11 discovered 20:4 discuss 210:12 221:7,11 discussed 55:15 111:19 178:21 179:5 232:11 discussion 4:9 4:12,14 7:14 7:16,18 25:3 47:13 57:6 64:16 65:16 66:1,3 69:15 70:22 73:4,6 76:22 92:9 128:7 136:3 140:1,3,15 142:9 144:22 145:17 148:22 149:10,17 150:11 153:12 163:11 166:20 195:21 206:6,7 207:9 208:4 211:11 212:12 214:9 222:6 224:5 225:11 discussions 58:11 64:22 72:4 118:7 206:17 disenfranchis... 196:18 197:1 disgusting 70:11 disliked 222:7 disney 184:7 display 124:8 displays 23:20 displeasure 148:4 disrespect 121:20 disruptive 194:4 dissatisfaction 71:21 dissect 174:3 distance 92:17 distill 90:13 distinct 150:20 175:11 197:14 214:17 distinguished 45:10 district 238:21 diverse 193:16 diversity 170:6 divide 227:15 documents 11:12 doing 22:22 37:21 56:1 63:13 115:2 127:20 158:6 172:15,16 197:11 206:22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 207:18 209:8 dollar 7:17 80:9 102:22 103:1,5,9 105:19 127:1 127:10 167:16 188:19 202:12 211:15,21 dominant 206:21 don 160:13 donald 2:16 6:14 35:12 40:22 65:1,15 110:13 116:3 127:11 147:7 153:15,18 154:11 155:11 156:8 161:5,8 162:3 183:17 198:5,17 201:17 208:14 223:22 224:1 234:19 235:18 dorky 104:9 dorm 175:20 doth 180:15 double 170:20 doubles 163:9 doubt 123:12 dove 184:2 dr 1:4 2:8,10 2:21 3:13 6:1,3 6:4,7 10:12 12:13,16 13:14 14:3,7,13 15:8 15:15,15,21 16:4 21:21 Meeting [dr - embodies] 22:2,3,5 23:1 24:19 30:3,4,6 30:11 31:8,9 31:11,13 33:10 35:14,19 36:4 38:5 39:11,20 41:1 47:14,15 47:20 48:2,5 48:11,14 49:13 50:12,13,15 51:2,7,16 52:2 52:9,12,21 53:4,6,15,19 54:16,19,21 55:4,9,14 56:9 56:12,15,18 57:4,18 58:5,8 58:13 59:15,18 59:22 60:16,18 63:10 70:17 73:16,17 74:2 74:3,4 77:2,7 94:8,10 106:2 106:4,5 107:15 125:14 132:4 132:12 136:18 147:3 170:1,2 172:1,10 176:16,17 193:12,14 194:14 196:15 197:5 206:10 217:5 226:19 235:15 dragon 162:22 dramatically 98:8 128:2 April 16, 2024 Page 20 draw 212:3 drawing 70:19 96:13 121:21 181:16 drawn 32:1 42:16 44:15 45:2 46:21 117:21 168:15 172:17 184:10 184:10 187:22 190:13 191:6 dress 182:1 drew 20:13 96:7 driving 154:20 drove 28:11 dual 21:5 duly 238:5 duplicate 15:9 durham 199:17 dynamic 115:16 125:5,8 193:3 e e 2:1,1 3:1,1 4:1 5:1,1 27:21 152:20 eagle 87:11,12 91:8,10 96:11 107:5 109:15 115:20 120:19 151:14,14 152:18 162:20 166:2,13 168:18 169:9 169:10,13,14 176:5,7 179:3 182:9,15 185:18 186:3,6 190:2 200:17 200:19 208:22 209:1,6,8,20 209:21 211:1,3 215:3 216:6 225:10 231:13 231:21 234:12 eagle's 169:1 169:18 216:3 eagles 96:8 160:5,6 166:13 176:6,7 186:5 186:7 231:20 eaglet 166:11 182:9 ear 86:14,22 92:17,18,20 98:8,12 104:3 144:14 earlier 58:4 83:21 105:17 107:17 192:9 192:19 ears 85:14 93:6 93:17,19 earthshaking 158:13 eastern 162:22 eaton 197:9 echoing 82:13 edge 34:9 37:20 edit 23:13 24:9 editor 8:4,5 edits 21:18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 effect 120:15 232:3 effective 180:11 efficient 92:16 effort 74:7 101:16 178:13 egyptian 167:19 188:1 189:8 eight 204:18 205:6,8,16,21 205:22 either 17:1 43:4 65:12 109:1 174:12 192:8 193:6 195:14,22 209:21 214:20 220:19 electronically 63:2 128:13 203:8 elegance 29:7 47:8 117:21 elegant 187:3 188:9 element 96:16 115:9 216:2 elements 85:16 109:14 118:10 120:10 178:5 187:12 elevate 120:5 elicits 30:20 ely 127:2 embodies 90:11 99:10 Meeting [embrace - exactly] embrace 47:2 embraced 23:11 40:20 embraces 29:16 embracing 30:14 emmett 3:13 4:10 7:15 10:11,13 18:19 19:2,14,19 20:1 21:4,5,22 22:1,12,20 23:5,10,14,16 24:12,14 25:1 29:12,20 40:7 40:14 41:10 42:1 43:5 47:11 50:8 53:22 54:4,10 56:11,16 58:16 62:21 70:12 emmett's 20:8 20:13,15,22 42:3,7 53:22 60:7 emotion 40:18 41:7,10 95:11 emotional 40:5 46:7 68:22 69:9 70:5 157:6,7 emotionally 45:1 192:3 emotions 34:19 69:3 emotive 199:19 April 16, 2024 Page 21 empathy 30:16 30:20 emphasis 67:13 101:7 102:2 118:1 emphasize 61:12 101:8 102:7 107:17 126:19 emphasized 46:1 98:11 emphasizes 91:3 100:19,20 emphasizing 42:4 138:6 employed 238:11,14 239:8,11 employee 238:13 239:10 encapsulated 161:9 encompass 72:10 encounter 95:22 encourage 39:4 40:11 46:8 68:7 encouraged 202:17 encouraging 68:15 endorse 183:17 enduring 181:9 energy 161:18 165:2,18 178:2 199:19 engaged 89:10 90:4 engagement 178:3 engaging 47:5 47:10 83:21 192:4 engraver 3:8 9:15 engraving 9:12 enjoy 181:11 enjoyable 182:20 enjoyed 121:16 enjoying 190:15 enlarge 120:8 ensure 21:7 enthused 34:12 102:4 enthusiasm 14:6 201:2 enthusiast 60:20 entirety 99:3 environment 85:17 envision 173:4 equally 26:12 era 21:8 erica 49:21 err 179:21 es 238:4 especially 44:20 123:2 132:12 148:13 148:14,17 156:21 176:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 190:13 essence 234:13 essentially 192:5 226:4 estimate 72:12 et 31:3 59:4 72:2 194:4,4 evaluating 125:2,3 evaluation 62:4 evans 3:5 9:2,4 150:15 evenings 190:14 event 31:18 34:20 105:20 195:11 231:3 events 18:20 everybody 54:14 109:2 115:15 136:6 198:21 216:15 234:21 236:5 everybody's 197:13 200:4 everyday 192:5 everyone's 79:16 164:2 evidence 32:9 evoke 180:21 evokes 180:18 evolved 164:7 197:2 exact 44:18 exactly 72:16 112:20,20 142:7 212:3 Meeting [examining - fasces] examining 94:14 example 24:7 25:17 37:11 127:1 161:20 excellent 28:8 162:15 181:15 excellently 181:15 except 200:9 exchange 89:18 89:19 excited 13:11 176:4,8,11 exciting 33:12 112:13 165:18 excuse 11:20 75:21 93:13 130:9 176:22 184:6 executed 182:1 exemplifies 33:20 exercised 62:10 exhibit 89:6 existing 21:18 exists 89:7 90:1 expand 56:10 127:7 expanded 230:5 233:13 expanding 154:15 expect 109:18 expecting 67:6 expensive 158:16 209:18 235:7,8 April 16, 2024 Page 22 experience 83:20 84:4,10 84:10 121:7 experienced 45:13 experimental 166:18 234:21 234:22 235:7 expert 86:9 87:21 88:9 expertise 138:3 experts 87:9 explanation 25:21 29:21 70:4 explicitly 32:4 explore 202:18 explosion 98:11 exposed 21:1 exposition 196:15 express 34:19 70:10,11 77:2 149:19 179:13 expressed 47:1 97:16,18 179:20 191:20 192:16 expresses 28:11 expression 76:17 104:9,16 105:5 167:11 191:15 196:22 expressions 34:2 104:19 105:4 122:2 191:8 exquisite 166:3 extend 100:10 extending 56:13 extent 32:5 67:13 extreme 179:13 extremely 14:8 eye 13:3 20:6 112:3 173:16 187:20 188:3 189:8 eyebrows 104:22 eyes 164:19 f face 18:16 23:14 41:22 42:9 44:1 45:12 54:5,7 55:18 102:5 104:10 109:6 109:10,15 168:15 170:14 184:11 faced 31:6 facial 76:17 104:18 105:4,5 facing 40:19 104:15 fact 36:8 38:12 45:16 69:12 95:18 101:6 102:4,8 124:7 127:11 148:20 150:20 155:20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 170:6 172:6 182:17 184:8 185:17 197:8 231:15 factors 94:15 failed 142:2 fairly 188:8,8 falcon 104:2 fall 37:8 falling 99:16 familiar 32:4 96:8 101:2 115:10 162:6 family 17:10 21:22 22:9,13 22:14 32:7 33:5 35:7 47:17 48:20,21 54:8 55:21 57:15 58:14 60:10 70:18 71:9 72:5,13 77:4 82:8 166:12 family's 10:18 28:2 32:3 72:14 81:19 famous 196:17 fan 170:14 fantastic 188:3 far 19:11 46:5 54:14 55:10 57:13 103:11 111:12 122:1 142:11 170:17 182:3 201:11 fasces 156:22 Meeting [fascinating - fix] fascinating 60:21 153:20 fashioned 165:1 favor 12:4 65:19 76:7 105:12 136:2 141:19 145:2 145:12 220:10 224:8 227:9 228:3,15 229:4 229:7 232:13 favorite 29:16 43:20 165:6 167:8 169:8,20 170:16 171:12 181:12 182:8 182:13 184:13 184:21 185:1 186:10 favorites 169:7 181:1 fdr 13:21 feathers 109:19 185:18,22 225:12 feature 23:18 85:11 151:12 featured 165:16 features 23:10 53:9 featuring 188:22 february 4:5 7:11 11:11 federal 19:5 21:6 April 16, 2024 Page 23 feed 80:17 feedback 27:21 55:2,5 63:20 71:12 77:21 79:20 81:9 108:8,21 146:6 feedback's 55:5 feeding 182:9 feel 16:3 18:12 39:2 41:1 46:13 83:22 96:14 108:3 113:20 115:18 116:3,8 136:22 147:13,18 148:16 173:19 175:2,6 181:4 181:15 198:22 207:14 215:7 feeling 180:18 180:22 feelings 40:6 48:22 feels 57:15 70:18 175:8 fellow 80:22 felt 67:9 69:3,4 115:17 188:7 189:17 fence 167:6 ferries 190:19 ferry 190:18 field 26:10 fields 25:19 26:4 fight 24:1 35:1 fighter 171:16 fighting 33:18 figure 31:20 99:7 131:2 figures 26:13 98:20 99:7 111:14 127:7 fill 61:13 final 235:12 finally 5:13 10:2,8 153:6 192:14 financially 238:15 239:11 find 47:4,8 60:20 95:9,19 104:11 115:20 117:18,20 119:5 160:1,1 178:19 190:4 190:13 191:8 191:17 192:1 192:11 193:5 224:21 findings 40:10 fine 28:2 29:18 73:22 103:17 151:16 152:21 163:17,17 196:3 220:7 222:2 finished 28:22 first 5:6 11:8 17:15 18:4,6,7 19:4,13 22:5 27:20 39:1,20 43:3,10 45:7 45:19 48:19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 49:13 53:21 59:12 60:5 66:21 67:20 68:11 80:8 84:3,17,17,21 85:13 94:16 102:21 103:19 103:20 104:5 106:6 121:12 121:15 123:9 124:5,6 133:19 134:11 136:18 137:17 140:12 151:18 152:4 158:1,3 164:2 170:4 181:2 195:18 201:11 206:6 207:13 210:12 214:13 219:5,7 221:8 fist 23:22 24:10 38:9 43:22 189:20 fistful 192:8,10 fists 41:14 fit 174:10 fits 178:8 fitting 46:2 five 16:9 27:16 35:14,20 39:17 63:6 79:3,4,6 79:13 94:5 128:16 129:18 129:18 156:3 203:12 205:15 205:16 fix 77:20 Meeting [fixed - fuller] fixed 231:14 flag 178:1 flagging 107:21 flavor 188:1,2 flipping 163:18 floor 217:22 flourishing 162:12 flower 213:12 flowing 188:19 floyd 19:2 flying 185:10 focus 34:9 72:18 98:10,15 106:16 111:3 113:2 119:2 140:7 focused 16:22 97:19 172:6 focuses 42:8 follow 39:12 58:10 71:7 followed 40:9 137:9 following 8:9 24:8 43:20 81:9 follows 95:7 fond 34:2 font's 186:11 fonts 231:15 food 82:10,17 85:15 100:13 101:10,17,18 113:5 115:14 foot 80:16 144:15,15 April 16, 2024 Page 24 forefront 123:7 foregoing 238:3,4 239:4 foreground 86:13 109:4 120:7 forge 17:19 80:11,16 85:17 86:3,16 87:4 87:16 88:3 91:2,5,9 95:11 96:1,15 99:11 99:12 101:2 103:8 109:8 110:4,10 113:5 113:8,14 115:21,21 124:6 125:20 128:2 129:5 forget 174:21 forgive 89:2 forgot 57:16 form 40:5 42:4 180:6 184:20 formal 72:17 81:12 format 111:9 formation 138:14 225:12 formed 84:18 84:21 former 2:21 7:12 formidable 19:9 forming 90:6 forms 99:6 194:22 forth 47:2 184:17 fortunate 22:2 81:17 217:12 forward 11:2 18:14 23:13 27:6 73:4 91:12 99:1 104:15 121:9 130:19 142:12 145:21 178:5 184:10 231:5 fought 33:22 181:18 foul 42:19 found 32:1,15 34:17 101:22 122:7 137:11 157:16 187:21 189:5,5,22 191:11 192:15 foundation 194:9 founder 8:4 21:4 154:14 founding 81:5 four 13:22 49:16 50:5 53:10 64:1,3 129:19 135:3 135:13 145:16 171:22 204:17 204:22 205:14 205:20,21,22 221:15,18 fractions 22:13 frame 179:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 framed 15:4 34:1 framing 118:19 frankly 118:17 119:12 free 16:3 freedom 171:3 188:6 200:18 200:20 french 164:18 fresh 161:18 162:4 164:19 179:3 friendly 141:6 144:3,6,19 219:17,22 229:22 230:2 front 63:1 111:17 128:11 141:2 203:7 230:13 frost's 166:12 fruition 77:6 frustrated 109:13 frustrating 63:13 fulbright 13:22 full 14:12 16:5 53:22 54:1 56:11,14,15,19 68:9 110:9 137:1 189:20 fuller 2:8 6:1,3 23:15 30:3,4,6 31:8 39:11 54:5,7 58:5,8 58:10 106:2,4 Meeting [fuller - god] 106:5 132:4,5 132:12 136:18 147:3,4 170:1 170:2,3 172:1 172:11 193:12 193:14,15 194:14 196:15 197:5 206:10 206:10 217:5 226:19 235:15 fully 96:15 fun 199:18,18 funeral 20:10 20:13 further 22:22 44:3 58:1 64:16,21 65:16 66:1 69:14 71:4,17 72:4 72:13 74:18,20 75:10 76:5 98:11 124:14 128:7 136:3 142:3 143:1 145:17 148:22 193:9 201:20 224:5 238:13 239:9 furthermore 173:5 future 143:4,6 179:7 202:13 230:11 fuzzy 93:14 fy 14:10 April 16, 2024 Page 25 g g 5:1 game 78:4 games 161:21 garde 183:22 gavel 35:20 39:3 gaze 172:6 general 2:7,19 2:20 3:15 5:21 6:21 7:2 10:20 25:3 43:1 75:4 81:21 85:22 86:21 92:9 111:4 113:8 187:11,12 222:2,12 generally 172:21 generation 182:10 generations 31:19 181:17 genre 112:12 gentlemen 15:20 george 19:2 89:8,20 98:7 98:18 103:6 104:9 106:9,15 109:5 118:2 119:4,16 120:2 122:4 123:7 130:9 144:15 german 168:22 179:3 germanic 169:4 171:20 171:22 172:1 getter 129:21 130:8 205:18 210:21 getters 70:15 74:21 143:18 getting 12:20 49:15 56:1 201:2 216:14 216:20 giant 115:14 120:4 giants 116:20 gibson 18:5,6 gift 87:2 gilded 182:19 gilkes 8:3 give 25:20 30:9 51:4,22 61:15 70:22 110:9 134:17 135:7 136:8 154:6 157:17,22 161:2 186:21 196:14 216:16 given 62:1 66:17 70:4 71:20 75:2 124:4 132:13 165:2 206:21 gives 30:15 40:16 101:1 115:4 125:6 giving 68:11 110:10 154:2 154:10 190:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 glad 38:8 glance 103:21 glide 184:8 globally 194:22 go 25:14 30:12 30:17,22 31:1 37:18,22 47:19 52:16 53:3 55:1 56:8 58:20 59:6 70:19 72:13 77:12 90:15 100:7 106:6,13 106:22 108:16 108:21 109:10 114:22 116:10 127:12 130:19 133:21 134:1 136:18 140:13 146:8 156:2,16 160:2,17 171:8 171:14,19 179:22 180:3 184:17 185:13 185:21 194:5 194:19,19 200:1 201:2,10 204:7,12 206:5 207:4,6 209:20 214:10 217:10 217:11 218:13 220:17 222:8 226:11 228:2 230:14 232:1 232:12 god 49:1 114:19 151:19 Meeting [goes - greg] goes 44:8 227:22 228:1 going 28:1 35:3 35:13 37:15 38:18 39:17 46:12 50:9 51:20 53:10 62:8 63:21 66:10 68:8 71:19 73:20 77:21 85:4 98:4 101:22 103:22 105:3 109:17 111:16 112:7,10 113:9 113:15 114:6,7 114:16 117:3 136:22 140:17 145:8,21 146:15,17,18 150:8 158:18 167:12 168:10 168:17,19 169:1 172:3 174:1 176:2 177:4 179:21 183:14,16 184:1,3 185:8 186:14,14 189:15 193:16 195:10 196:14 198:22,22 204:12 208:11 209:2 212:4 213:14 216:21 220:18 231:2 235:20 April 16, 2024 Page 26 gold 4:11,15 7:15,19 10:12 15:2,10 19:6 19:15,15,20 25:2 26:4 28:12 36:6,8 49:7,8 54:11 56:3 62:22 77:5 150:13,20 151:8,11,15,19 152:2,19,21 153:3,11 156:15 158:15 158:15 159:2,9 159:15 161:11 165:8,11 166:13,15 174:3,4,13 176:3 183:17 195:10,22 198:12 200:2 200:22 203:6 207:1,3,6 208:20 209:4,7 209:17 210:9 210:14 211:4 211:16 213:8 213:11,12 214:1 216:16 217:11 218:2 218:11,16 219:5,6,19 220:9,14 233:12 234:12 235:3,7 golden 54:11 80:2,9 213:12 good 5:2 8:2 13:1 22:7 25:8 32:3 38:22 43:6,11,15 48:13 52:4 53:1 55:2 74:11 82:6 90:22 96:16 108:9,22 109:21 122:13 129:10 136:12 162:8 171:7 185:7 186:11 187:8 199:18 203:20 209:6 218:10,16,17 218:18 231:19 231:19,22 236:20 gordon 49:21 50:1 53:8 gotten 202:21 government 3:11 10:3 85:6 85:6 grab 73:20 grace 154:12 gradient 26:6,6 graffiti 161:19 166:19 167:14 170:12 173:11 180:2,9 183:14 187:7,10,13,15 190:8 191:4 193:19 194:5 194:18 197:1 197:14 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 graffiti's 196:16 grain 92:14 grains 92:16 granite 185:6 grateful 49:4 55:22 gratitude 84:8 gravestone 29:12 great 13:2,5 18:12,15 20:3 43:11 61:16 62:17 82:8 83:11 85:4 103:16 104:16 110:15 111:10 113:14 120:15 121:6 122:9 154:17 157:15 170:4,8,12 177:7 186:12 186:14 194:10 201:15 206:11 206:12 213:12 greater 17:15 230:5 greatest 12:19 greg 3:9 9:21 61:6 63:4,9,15 63:18 64:16 128:14 129:2 129:12 130:4 134:13 136:6 154:13 203:10 204:3,5 205:4 206:4 Meeting [grief - help] grief 19:8 20:17 41:21 70:7 ground 169:2 groundbreaki... 207:15 213:17 grounded 34:21 group 8:5 14:10 77:17 80:13 155:5 202:11 groups 17:1 growing 97:7 guess 83:21 105:3 109:10 132:10 156:12 173:15 guests 82:3 guises 192:13 guns 171:16 guys 45:3 52:14 105:3 115:10 121:9 212:22 223:16 h habitat 181:8 hair 110:5 188:19 half 202:12 211:15,21 222:4 hamilton 15:5 hanchock 3:6 9:5,7 hand 25:4 39:8 59:16,19 65:1 April 16, 2024 Page 27 66:16 67:19 69:17 71:18 73:18 74:14 92:10 104:2 111:22 113:17 124:16 125:2,4 125:12 133:14 134:19 144:14 145:11,12 147:18,20 150:8 178:4 184:10 196:6 197:22 203:9 208:15 210:16 210:18 225:1 228:13,16 229:8,10 231:7 236:1 handful 146:16 212:7 handing 128:20 handled 148:5 handover 161:21 hands 24:13 34:19 46:10 55:16 69:9 70:3 85:22 167:8 hanging 22:10 happen 114:17 happened 44:17,18 54:12 99:17 happening 111:7 happens 31:22 43:7 happy 16:14 67:12,15 121:1 151:3 202:20 235:20 harcourt 2:8 6:1 30:3,6 39:8 42:14 43:21 58:3,10 59:10 106:2,5 132:3 132:5 136:17 147:4 170:1,3 193:11,14 195:5 206:9,10 217:1,3,4 226:18 235:14 hard 17:3 57:21 77:4 178:10 harlem 60:5 harsh 85:16 99:10,12 102:2 167:11 hat 43:5 86:12 hate 19:5 21:11 hats 43:7,8 hauled 92:14 he'll 176:3 head 98:22 104:5 169:18 185:17 186:4 188:14 225:13 231:17 headquarters 197:10 healing 44:2,4 54:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 hear 19:10 27:21 32:6 50:18,22 51:1 52:6,10,12 53:7 55:2,7 74:2 79:20 88:19 100:4,6 108:13,17 134:2,4 183:5 183:7 205:4 212:16,22 213:1 heard 53:7 76:14 114:8 117:7 148:13 153:16 hearing 11:2 11:13 12:9 50:18 61:3 65:18 116:2 128:8 145:1 200:3 201:22 hearkened 188:18 hearkening 182:17 hearkens 164:17 hearts 178:9 heft 95:12 height 144:17 heights 125:1 held 24:12 helicopter 48:18 49:17 hello 51:16 help 21:15 32:7 48:10 50:5 Meeting [help - hyphenated] 51:13 64:21 97:2 99:1 134:20 helped 29:14 49:7,21 50:1 82:16 101:8 127:8 helpers 96:4 helpful 48:4 71:12 123:22 218:9 helping 18:14 82:9 154:15,22 helps 38:22,22 39:1 hereto 238:15 239:11 hesitation 162:2 hey 100:5 hi 42:12 66:7 83:7 92:13 107:16 193:14 hidden 26:13 high 64:2,8,12 68:1,2 70:14 74:21 129:21 130:8 151:8 158:16 204:15 205:18,18 222:9 highest 143:18 222:5 highlight 32:19 58:15 85:4 90:3 156:4 highlighting 60:19,22 April 16, 2024 Page 28 highlights 107:8 highly 15:18 159:5 hill 100:4,5 hip 194:9,20 historic 31:18 historical 13:18 95:8 100:19 101:15 106:7 historically 93:1 history 2:11 6:6 13:2,15,16 13:17 18:17 31:2 36:10 69:5 80:5 94:21 107:10 116:6 119:11 hit 100:18 hitting 158:9 hmm 92:3 hoard 2:19 6:20,22 11:18 12:1,1 44:13 44:14 67:21,22 69:14 71:19 72:9,12,17 114:13,14 136:20 144:3,8 172:12,13 198:2 206:20 206:20 211:8,8 212:10,14 213:6,21 218:6 219:2,6 220:1 220:5 222:1,15 222:21 223:3 226:8 227:1,3 227:6,15,20 229:18,18 232:20 233:22 234:15 hold 18:4 51:21 54:19 57:16 82:22 212:19 223:16 holding 23:10 46:9 85:14 86:20,22 98:8 104:2 105:10 167:20 169:13 178:4 home 44:16 80:22 162:18 190:12 homelands 89:14 honest 230:20 honestly 12:21 91:6 honor 22:8 40:2 80:2 98:1 147:18 honorably 14:21 honored 16:16 102:19 137:5 honoring 14:14 17:1,14 18:3 102:8 hook 41:22 70:10 hop 194:9,20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 hope 22:7 42:8 59:3 87:2 108:7 149:18 193:5 hopefully 16:2 22:15 43:22 140:15 hoping 22:14 137:1 horrific 19:2 34:21 horror 41:21 42:7 horrors 21:1 horse 98:22 horseback 86:1 hour 180:16 house 2:9,12 6:2,9 81:14 86:18 88:6 housekeeper 127:21 hued 80:2 hugely 169:9 hugging 40:19 human 40:18 184:20 humbled 22:17 22:18 hundreds 69:3 80:15 92:15 190:17 hunger 113:10 hyperrealism 175:14 hyphen 27:8 hyphenated 27:4,6 Meeting [ice - injustice] i ice 188:10 iconic 175:8 iconography 96:8 idea 29:20 33:1 103:6 126:8 140:4 161:10 182:9 185:4,22 195:12 201:7 206:21 213:15 ideal 68:18 ideas 14:11 160:22 identified 23:8 86:7 87:6,18 88:7 89:12 133:2,3,9 identify 27:16 29:14 identifying 208:1,2 ignore 42:7 illegal 197:3 illusion 36:20 illustrate 111:18 image 28:1,18 109:7 113:3 182:15 185:5 192:10 imagery 21:19 24:6 32:11 215:2 immediately 65:1 117:21 180:20 April 16, 2024 Page 29 immensely 19:8 impact 69:9 102:5,9 157:6 157:7 202:9 impacted 45:22 impactful 125:7 191:16 importance 47:16 94:18,20 103:20 181:17 important 31:16 32:5,18 35:21,22 36:16 36:16 37:1,22 40:3 41:3 45:6 50:18 58:13,15 60:21 61:18 65:4,8 80:3 87:12 97:5 101:8,14 107:18 113:5 113:20 114:5 121:11 134:16 147:5 180:6 203:2 208:17 impossible 49:19 impression 45:7 impressively 177:2 improve 180:16 inch 15:5,6,9 inclination 45:10 inclined 45:17 69:11 include 24:6 56:14 65:9 72:7 153:1 230:3 includes 7:10 24:10 86:14 including 14:10 94:20 111:1 155:6 175:4 inclusion 41:1 43:4 84:9 121:8 166:11 211:20 inclusive 59:5 138:9 inclusivity 170:6 incoming 71:9 incorporates 29:17 incredibly 90:11 incuse 26:4 incused 26:14 186:13 indian 3:16,18 10:20,22 80:4 81:8,13,16,22 82:2 84:2,7,8 84:12,19 85:5 86:5 87:6,8 88:5 89:4,11 89:14 91:20 97:14,17 111:5 113:4 121:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 124:3,10 133:1 133:2,8 137:5 137:8,14 138:6 138:13 139:3 indians 86:6 87:18 97:15 102:17 127:2 137:10 indicate 8:10 65:19 85:16 117:4 indicates 152:5 152:6 indication 126:6 indicative 176:12 indigenous 116:5 individual 80:4 93:18 96:13 individuals 17:1,2 210:5 inequality 31:3 inextinguisha... 20:22 infant 80:8 information 89:20 93:6 106:8,12 141:1 198:14 203:2 infusion 61:21 62:5 initial 90:5 injustice 40:14 42:9 45:14 46:9 Meeting [injustices - john] injustices 44:2 inner 196:19 innocence 21:10 input 15:16 21:15 33:11 36:10 71:9 74:19 81:7,11 137:18 139:2 inscription 23:19 24:2,14 86:3,15 87:3 87:15 88:2 151:22 153:1 inscriptions 23:5 85:11 110:4 151:18 152:19 inscrutable 34:3 insert 65:11 inside 22:13 197:9 insight 15:19 74:13 155:15 insights 13:2 inspirational 32:13 inspire 101:3 inspired 15:16 32:12 87:2 instance 37:1 instilled 69:9 institute 124:9 institute's 124:9 intelligence 39:21 April 16, 2024 Page 30 intent 97:22 interest 14:21 97:16,18 182:5 interested 33:5 82:9 93:1 238:15 239:12 interesting 36:7 117:12,19 158:7 161:17 168:19 190:1,4 interference 51:10 intergenerati... 202:18 207:8 211:12 intergovernm... 2:4 3:12 9:18 10:4 international 159:5 165:15 internet 49:9 interpret 115:13 interpretation 123:4 interrupt 50:16 introduce 5:17 199:12 intuition's 119:22 invalidate 197:13 inventing 200:13 investigated 21:8 invite 105:16 120:20 193:15 invited 102:20 inviting 171:3 193:18 invoke 40:7 involved 132:19 involvement 40:2 isaac 180:15 island 190:11 190:20 issuance 230:19 issue 51:15 115:1 127:17 151:11,15 182:2 issued 80:2 159:4 issues 11:6 it'd 103:16 198:7 item 150:10 itinerary 236:9 j janet 18:4 january 15:12 jarring 215:1 225:15 jaw 167:15,22 jen 83:2 jennifer 2:3 7:21 8:3 9:17 11:21 73:17 75:22 77:11,15 78:7 92:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 jet 20:16 171:16 jim 127:1 job 1:17 176:20 181:15 joe 25:17 26:1 26:18 39:1,1,5 42:2 61:2 65:11 109:18 112:9 118:7,12 118:14 119:14 120:16 124:16 124:18,20 125:10 127:6 136:9 140:5 144:12,13 149:8 154:1 155:14 157:13 157:19,19 196:5,8,10,11 196:12 197:21 198:6 199:2 john 2:12 6:8 16:5,7 42:11 42:12 44:10 66:2,5,7 69:20 74:1,14,16 75:13 76:12,20 92:10,13 102:13,15 105:14 106:11 116:18 130:6 136:4 142:5 149:1 167:1,2 169:22 195:7 208:15,16 216:11,12 221:1 223:9 Meeting [john - know] 232:10 john's 75:8 140:4 join 15:21 80:14 joined 10:9,12 10:16 joining 11:2 14:4 77:3 88:15 joseph 3:8 9:14 26:2 154:12 196:14 journey 49:6 57:21 joy 17:7 18:18 joyous 156:10 july 212:7 jump 177:2 200:7 jumped 198:6 jumps 200:5 juncture 49:20 justice 3:13 10:13 21:4,22 24:2 46:17 59:3 162:17 k karat 7:19 150:13 151:8 151:15 153:11 203:6 keep 27:15 38:10 39:16 94:5 120:9 138:9 156:3 163:4 172:16 April 16, 2024 Page 31 202:14 213:16 keeps 34:9 kellen 2:19 6:20 11:19 12:1,3 44:12 44:14 46:19 67:19,22 70:14 71:18 114:12 114:13 116:17 136:19 144:2 172:12 176:14 183:11,15 186:9 192:12 197:22 206:19 206:20 211:5,8 218:4,22 219:21 221:22 226:7 229:18 232:19 kellen's 177:20 kernels 92:17 92:22 93:18 key 101:11 kick 43:19 kid 116:21 kidnapped 20:1 kids 97:6 115:11 165:3 killed 20:2 42:18 80:21 kind 42:15 43:5,6,18 45:7 45:7,20,22 46:14 70:22 84:20 89:18 96:3,10 97:12 97:21 103:7 104:9 105:5 115:6,9 116:10 136:5 137:18 147:17 149:2 154:1 158:7 168:2,11,11,12 168:15 169:4,5 169:6,7 171:17 171:18 172:1,5 173:8,13 174:2 174:3 175:5,9 175:14,15 177:10 179:1 196:14 197:5 200:18 201:9 202:16 207:5 208:22 209:7 210:2,3 211:13 213:13,15,16 213:17 kindness 154:11 knew 17:10 34:3 60:11 know 12:20 22:19 25:7 30:7,15 31:1,3 31:21 33:2,12 35:6,22 36:5,9 36:10,14,17,17 36:19,22 37:2 37:3,6,7,8,13 37:18,19 38:1 38:1,2,6,7,8,8 38:13,18 39:3 42:21 44:4,5 44:15,17 45:9 45:11 46:4,9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 46:14 49:11 52:6 58:15 60:1,10,11 61:19 63:12 65:11 66:4 67:3 68:5,8,14 68:18 69:3,6 71:20 74:7,22 83:4 84:1,13 85:2 89:16,20 90:5,14 93:1 96:10 98:5 103:12 104:14 104:15,19 107:2,4,9 108:1 110:14 110:16,18,19 110:21,22 111:2,4,16,18 111:20 112:1,2 112:3,6,10,11 112:15,17 113:1,3,6,19 114:3,7,8,19 115:3,10 116:17,18 121:11,17 122:1,10,11,12 122:14,15 123:10 124:4 127:6,13 130:21 137:10 137:19 138:5,9 138:11 142:6 147:21 148:18 152:11 154:2,3 154:4,4,5,7,8 156:12,14,15 Meeting [know - liaisons] 156:22 157:1,1 157:4,11,13,14 157:16,16,20 158:2,3,5,5,14 158:16,17 159:7,10,11,14 159:17,18,19 159:20 160:1,1 160:3,3,10,16 160:17,18,18 160:21,22 161:1 162:9 163:13 165:8 168:13 169:13 170:13,15 171:2,4,10,15 172:17 174:8 175:4 177:8 178:12 182:4 190:1,10 194:7 194:10 197:11 198:20,21,21 199:5,6,8,11 199:11,13,17 199:22,22 200:4,10,18,19 200:20,20 201:2,10,11,13 201:13 202:19 206:15 207:13 207:18,21,21 208:7 209:15 210:16 211:13 222:14 225:9 234:20 235:1,1 235:22 knowing 112:9 April 16, 2024 Page 32 knowledge 10:18 81:20 89:20 101:9 154:9 238:10 239:6 known 16:4 17:8,8 125:21 165:19 kotlowski 2:21 4:7 7:13 12:13 12:16 13:14 14:3,7 15:8,15 15:15,22 16:4 kotlowski's 14:13 kristie 3:19 8:12 13:9 l l 22:6 labor 101:16 lack 147:19 ladies 15:20 lady 164:7 171:9 180:4 181:22 laid 40:10 218:15 land 116:20 language 65:9 large 34:13,20 155:16,21 180:10 217:13 larger 103:16 111:9 late 89:2,9 129:9 launched 151:7 law 19:4,5,16 40:10 209:11 laying 200:10 lead 18:6 leader 2:13,15 2:17 6:9,12,15 leading 112:10 leaf 168:7 188:11 lean 34:8 48:9 leaning 34:1 46:15 leaping 181:2 185:10 learned 97:6 113:6 learning 17:8 125:17 leave 47:12 73:4 leaves 47:11 led 45:19 95:7 138:7 left 22:10 legacy 31:19 32:19 legal 3:9 9:22 24:21 92:6 153:9 155:1 legally 197:17 legible 95:14 legislated 133:7 legislation 21:7 legislative 2:3 3:12 9:18 10:4 81:12 148:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 legitimate 180:2 195:2 leonardo 159:21 lesser 17:8 lessons 46:17 letter 73:10 233:15 lettering 160:19,20 161:20 170:12 180:10 letters 4:4 7:10 11:10,14 12:10 168:19 182:16 letting 83:19 level 231:14 lewis 17:19 liaison 2:4 7:21 9:19 23:13 24:5,9,15 49:14 72:3 75:1,2 76:14 76:19 136:21 liaison's 66:4,8 66:14 liaisons 10:10 23:8 78:17 81:12 94:13 97:2 100:11 106:5 117:13 120:21 125:17 126:3 131:16 132:9,17 147:15,15,20 148:11,14 149:8,20 Meeting [liberally - looks] liberally 39:5 liberty 4:15 7:18 150:12 151:8,13,19,22 153:11 156:15 156:20 157:2 157:10 158:2,6 159:2 162:4 164:7,19 165:14,22 167:22 168:1,3 168:7,16 170:17 171:1,5 171:9 172:22 173:3,4,6,8 174:17 177:10 179:18 180:4,5 180:17 181:17 182:10 184:2 184:18,20 185:2,5 187:18 188:5,13,22 189:19,20 190:9,9,22 191:1,9,15,19 192:5,7 202:16 202:18 203:6 212:2 215:8 230:11 234:4,7 liberty's 167:15 170:14 181:22 library 13:19 lies 16:21 life 91:13 100:14,22 165:2 175:22 April 16, 2024 Page 33 light 17:15 21:1 98:11 125:22 lighter 26:6 liked 28:17 43:2,14 44:7 91:2 95:16 96:13 97:13 105:2 115:17 167:5,14,22 168:4,5,5,13 169:5 170:18 170:22 175:14 177:12,14,18 184:11 185:14 186:22 188:21 189:6,6,8 192:4 206:16 likely 108:3 likes 131:10,10 liking 76:15 line 42:14 196:15 lines 24:5 98:6 164:12 linn 3:14 10:16 81:18 82:7 149:20 lips 104:21 list 2:2 3:2 listen 147:15 201:13 listened 183:10 listening 5:16 157:20 literal 120:2 literally 69:7 little 22:9 56:3 57:5 28:21 29:19 69:21 70:1 31:22 45:4 72:1 97:11 47:13 48:8 98:10 99:3 49:16,17,17 103:22 104:22 61:13 66:3 105:11 112:15 77:11 80:12 121:9 126:22 89:2 96:7,10 161:15 167:14 103:14,16 168:21 171:2 106:11 111:20 171:22 173:1,4 111:21,21 173:5 184:19 116:1 118:9 186:14 188:18 120:9,14 194:7,8,9,16 121:21 130:19 202:13 213:11 134:17 135:7 215:11 137:21 138:9 looked 50:6,13 154:7 159:15 53:9 56:2 57:5 160:3 178:6 66:22 67:2 180:15 183:21 74:8 97:20 187:19 192:17 103:19 104:5 196:14 210:4 105:9 115:18 230:21 123:8,10 live 5:13 143:13 157:16 190:11 235:4 167:19 168:19 lived 53:8 171:20 189:10 lives 17:9 looking 46:2 living 36:9 97:8 67:7 98:10 lobby 119:9 102:4 106:17 lobbying 106:22 114:3 118:17 127:14 157:18 long 14:4 19:4 165:9 175:19 31:19 57:21 194:2 166:2,6 196:6 looks 34:15 208:11 69:21 104:12 longest 177:7 104:13 107:3 look 11:2 18:14 110:2 112:1 25:16 26:8 123:3 144:6 43:6 54:11 167:11 169:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting [looks - management] 169:12 170:14 177:20 184:6 186:6 loop 112:1 113:17 los 39:22 lose 42:22 157:6 212:13 loss 42:22 50:3 lost 49:2 55:20 109:11 139:15 157:5,7 169:18 lot 16:21 17:7 47:11 50:16 55:21 97:11,11 99:16 101:22 103:3,20,21 105:2 106:8,12 107:4 112:13 112:13 114:8 115:4,13 119:3 125:17 127:10 157:5 159:12 160:22 165:5 167:4 170:9 173:5 175:2,6 176:6,6,20 177:21 181:9 190:21 191:4 193:20 194:5 202:21 208:19 209:14 235:5 loud 35:17,18 78:2,4 83:22 loudly 63:21 louis 56:21 love 20:10 32:17 33:22 April 16, 2024 Page 34 35:1 36:4 37:12 40:15 42:8 59:2 121:4 161:18 171:6 175:14 178:13 179:16 180:2,3,7,12 180:16,16 181:6 182:8 186:11 193:1 211:16,17 214:19 loved 33:16 84:5 lovely 191:11 191:18 lovers 181:10 181:11 loving 30:14,18 40:17 42:18 47:2 low 222:5 lowbrow 155:3 lower 98:14 103:15 120:9 loyal 12:14 lunch 77:20 150:1 lynching 18:18 19:5 31:3 m ma'am 54:15 55:8 213:3 madam 167:15 made 17:2 29:11 36:10 46:6,7 49:5 80:4 102:5 119:1,6 122:22 130:14 137:16 159:19 163:21 magazine 20:16 mail 27:21 142:11 main 98:7 99:4 211:14 mainstream 112:12 maintain 100:21 maintaining 100:14 major 120:10 majority 2:14 6:12 132:7,13 159:3 make 23:14 29:21 38:2,14 61:6 64:20 65:5,10 66:21 68:3,8 71:16 71:22 72:17 73:3 74:15 75:5,9 77:12 79:3 85:19 116:13 120:6 122:13,18 123:17 125:6 129:7 131:2 133:18 134:8 134:10,13 137:5 139:6 141:2 142:13 144:4,9 149:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 163:18 166:16 167:9 195:1,9 195:12 198:9 199:7 200:21 203:14 209:5 209:10,19 212:11 213:6 219:5,16 220:15,18 221:2 226:9 229:22 230:2 232:3 makes 43:5 62:4 179:2 183:19 186:1 201:4 making 64:2 69:12 70:15 129:20 139:4 181:14 187:17 188:7 200:14 206:7 mamie 4:10 7:15 10:11 19:7,14,19 20:8 22:1 23:5 23:10,21 24:7 25:1 29:17 34:9,14 40:15 41:13,18 53:9 54:2 57:9 58:16 60:1,5 62:21 68:13 74:5 man 67:4 120:4 management 2:22 8:16 75:12 154:13 Meeting [management - menna] 155:1 manager 3:4,5 3:6,7 8:22 9:3 9:6,9,12 manhattan 190:12 manufacturing 230:22 marble 185:6 march 19:4 margin 68:3 marine 18:11 marines 18:14 mark 158:9 marketed 183:20 marketing 158:17 marriage 162:7 marry 172:19 173:15 marshal 189:22 match 178:16 231:19 matched 214:18 215:6 matches 41:9 180:6 215:9 matching 163:19 216:7 material 156:7 materials 231:4 matter 86:9 87:9,20 88:9 162:6 matthew 1:16 238:2,19 mccolm 239:2 239:17 mcnally 3:19 8:12,14 12:15 12:18 13:8,9 13:10 mcnutt 13:21 meals 82:17 mean 36:3 37:5 47:20 52:11 67:12 113:1 142:14 146:20 157:14 160:21 167:7 169:12 170:20 172:5 176:2 184:6 187:21 193:20 194:7 199:8,15 201:9 209:2 215:1 234:1,22 meaning 102:16 157:6 157:22 meaningful 32:15 38:14 means 62:3 179:18 193:20 196:21 217:8 meant 188:13 meatballs 115:11,14 medal 4:11,16 7:16,19 10:12 15:6,7,10 19:6 19:15,16,20 21:16,20 25:2 April 16, 2024 Page 35 28:12,19 31:15 35:21 36:3,15 38:15 40:7,11 47:18 49:7,8 57:22 62:22 65:5,10 68:11 72:8 77:5 150:13,19,21 151:9,16,20 152:2,22 153:3 153:12 158:12 159:9,10 161:11,21 162:1,14 163:1 187:9 193:6 195:16 200:22 203:6 210:11 210:12 211:2,4 213:7,13,22 214:20 222:13 222:16,18,20 224:3 229:21 232:7 233:14 234:4,13 medallic 40:4 medals 15:2,3 15:5,18 18:3 26:4 36:6,8 151:12 178:20 185:12 209:15 media 8:5 161:17 medium 90:14 162:13 meet 231:4 meeting 1:1 4:6 5:3,7,11 7:12 8:1 10:9 11:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 14:13 55:6 73:11 136:10 142:10,11 237:2 meetings 13:4 14:4 146:17 megan 3:3 8:18 19:17 50:20 78:11 member 2:21 6:5,18 7:5,13 13:14 14:7,20 21:22 134:22 152:10 187:10 members 5:14 5:18 7:22 12:20 22:13 27:15 38:17,17 47:1 58:2 61:8 61:15,16 94:5 126:20 135:2,4 135:13,14 148:3 151:4 memoir 21:10 memorial 69:22 men 43:7 111:21 menna 3:8 9:14 9:16 25:18 26:2,2,12 39:1 61:2,4 112:9 118:7,14,14 119:15,21 124:16,19,20 140:6 149:9 154:10,12 196:5,13,14 Meeting [menna - modest] 212:16 213:3 menna's 65:11 mention 150:16 165:3 mentioned 56:13 59:1,3 64:18 88:17 134:16 188:11 188:12 211:10 mentor 60:8 merit 38:21,21 39:5 61:10 62:7,12 68:19 173:22 181:20 195:14 message 36:19 37:1,2,5 41:18 42:1 87:13 96:6 100:16 101:1 174:20 met 13:11 metal 208:18 metaphorically 69:8 mexican 169:13 mexico 96:9 169:12 mic 48:3 54:22 193:12 212:19 michael 2:14 6:11 9:11 michelangelo 159:20 microphone 16:1 51:21 59:21,21 65:6 94:9 210:10 April 16, 2024 Page 36 microphone's 83:4 microphones 41:15 77:20 middle 14:5 56:21 182:16 midst 19:8 mike 8:4 27:18 28:15 29:3 51:14 61:2 63:1 108:6 110:12 112:22 112:22 116:2 128:12 133:14 134:1,12 135:17 145:19 146:4,12,13,13 147:7 160:10 183:3 186:17 203:8 210:16 210:17,19 211:7 212:16 214:4,7,8 224:14 229:3 231:7 232:3 236:20 mike's 149:3 miles 80:15 92:15 milestone 18:15 miley 166:12 military 166:8 mind 154:1 167:16 168:14 173:3 mindful 130:16 mine 182:12 minor 120:15 minority 2:12 2:16 6:9,15 187:6,6,16 mint 1:9 2:4 3:19 7:21 8:9 8:13 11:5 13:10 14:15 15:3 18:5,7 22:17 61:2 62:4 68:8 70:18 72:1,18 76:14 80:1 81:7 97:9 102:20,22 105:18 136:6,8 137:19 140:22 142:8 144:9 151:7,15 155:8 172:15 207:19 225:8 226:11 227:3,4 229:19 230:8 233:13 236:2 mint's 127:4 151:10 218:9 minted 80:1 minute 51:4 63:6 78:16 79:6,13 89:3 128:16 203:12 203:14,16 208:7 minutes 4:4 7:10 11:10,14 12:10 16:5 27:16 35:14,20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 39:17 79:3,4 94:5 156:4 224:21 miracle 118:16 mirror 98:4 188:13 missed 13:4 missing 27:7 mississippi 20:2,18 28:12 misspeak 142:20 mobley 4:10 7:15 10:11 19:7,14,19 20:8,14,18 21:3,9 22:1 23:6,10 24:7 25:2 27:3 29:17 32:6,13 33:3 34:10,14 40:16 41:18 58:16 62:21 mobley's 23:21 41:13 modeled 184:14 moderated 1:4 modern 151:13 157:11 158:2 164:19 173:1,8 173:12,19 174:1 177:11 177:16 182:19 188:20 189:7 191:5 213:16 modest 155:13 157:13 Meeting [modification - muting] modification 144:16 modifications 140:5 143:3,6 144:4,9,13 modified 106:19 127:7 modify 149:9 165:8 modifying 125:1 molly 239:2,17 mom 191:21 moment 16:20 50:19 66:6 77:2 92:1 96:15 126:18 147:5 149:19 153:17 208:8 208:13 219:10 momentarily 51:11 moments 77:14 money 20:2 months 19:6 212:8 monumental 124:8 moon 178:9 moral 41:18 moran 2:14 6:11,13 27:18 27:19 28:17 29:1 108:6,7 108:10,15,17 108:19,22 133:14,20 134:2,6 135:17 145:6,14,19 146:7,9 160:13 183:3,4,7,10 210:19,19 211:6 212:13 212:20 213:1 214:4,4,7 224:13,16 228:8 229:2,5 229:11 231:9 232:5 morning 5:3 8:2 13:12 22:8 82:6 90:22 235:18 236:8 mosquito 111:15 mother 19:7 20:8 30:14,18 33:17 40:7,19 41:11 43:16,17 44:16,19 49:22 mother's 24:13 35:1 mothers 45:13 69:4 motif 115:20 175:2 182:14 motifs 161:20 164:17 motion 11:14 12:8 65:5,10 65:19,22 68:4 69:13 72:7,15 72:21 73:3 74:15 75:8,13 75:16 76:6,10 99:5 130:12,20 April 16, 2024 Page 37 131:3 134:13 135:17 136:21 139:16,17 140:11 141:1,7 141:14,15,18 142:2,6,22 143:20 145:2 145:16 163:5 164:9 184:8 195:13 207:9 212:11 213:7 213:19 214:6 217:22 218:14 219:1,3,5,8 220:2,6,9,13 220:19 221:2,4 223:6,10 224:2 224:12 226:9 226:13,16,21 227:10,13 229:16 230:8 232:3,17 233:2 233:17 motions 64:22 130:5 142:3 206:5,8 218:1 motivated 21:7 move 11:15 19:13 69:11 72:1 73:4 85:8 130:7 134:7 142:4,5 151:17 152:8 222:15 223:3 229:19 231:5 232:6 moved 23:13 27:6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 movement 20:21 148:17 178:3 movie 115:12 moving 23:17 64:6 120:13 152:13,17 210:13 multiple 12:6 54:15 56:17 65:20 76:8 141:20 142:1 145:3,5 175:5 200:6 220:11 222:22 224:9 227:11 228:6 232:14,16 murder 19:2 21:5 40:8,14 42:7 70:12 murdered 42:19 murderers 20:6,19 murders 21:8 murray 100:3 100:5 museum 124:10 mustang 165:15 mute 51:5,9,17 54:17 108:21 146:5 muted 54:21 108:14 muting 51:18 Meeting [n - nice] n n 2:1 3:1 4:1,1 5:1 nail 210:13 nailed 199:2 naked 112:3 name 5:14,19 8:11 11:22 22:6 27:2,4 53:22 54:1 56:11,14,15,19 56:21 77:18 82:6 94:6 152:4,6 207:16 named 197:9 narrative 117:12 118:19 narrow 142:12 221:14,17 nation 3:14,16 3:18 10:17,20 10:22 17:3 41:20 55:17,22 57:14 59:6 81:5,8,8,19,22 82:2 84:7,8,12 84:19 85:5 87:8,8,20 89:4 89:12,14,17,18 89:18,22,22 90:1,6 91:20 97:5,15,17,18 121:8,9 122:5 122:6,6,12,12 124:3 132:22 133:1,3,4,8,9 137:5,14 138:6 April 16, 2024 Page 38 138:10,10,13 139:3,3 nation's 124:12 national 13:18 15:2 20:19 81:15 86:6 87:17 96:1 97:14 124:9 137:9 162:1 nations 86:8 88:9 95:4 131:16 native 4:13 7:17 10:15 17:12,15,20 78:10,12 79:22 80:2,4 81:14 86:18 88:6 92:8 94:16,21 95:3 96:3 98:1 107:9 111:5 113:4,19 121:18 127:1 128:10 natural 26:8 181:8 191:8 nature 114:4 184:20 235:6 navigating 95:6 nay 141:22 142:1 224:11 224:14,16 232:16 nearly 13:5 18:21 neat 169:6 173:16 175:10 necessarily 34:8 36:18 43:17 58:17 64:19 73:3 96:14 106:17 118:3 132:16 150:18 174:1 177:22 178:16 183:13 190:5 191:15 necessary 100:19 233:11 neck 26:8 36:21 need 11:6 23:13 27:6,8 70:3 71:16 72:20 73:3 110:2,4 111:22 131:18 145:10 156:12 178:19 186:3 193:12 199:4 219:13 221:10 225:4 233:17 needed 33:21 73:11 needing 64:19 needs 36:2,3 109:9,16 147:7 161:22 214:21 215:8 negative 37:21 109:16,22 113:2 negatively 108:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 neglected 66:21 124:21 neglecting 57:2 neither 238:11 239:7 nerds 104:1 nervous 198:20 nest 166:9 186:7 never 12:21 18:12 114:17 146:17,18 157:6 161:16 166:8 176:5,10 189:19 192:7 193:4 new 18:9 21:19 60:5 84:8 85:5 89:4,15 91:20 97:4,8 124:3,6 137:14 153:20 154:5 157:10 157:22 158:2,9 161:15 162:8 165:2 172:19 180:1 191:3 195:15 199:17 200:8 225:7 newer 61:8 newly 90:6 newspaper 20:17 nice 28:7 103:1 103:12 104:12 168:19 169:11 186:1 199:16 200:21 201:4,5 201:8 Meeting [nicer - office] nicer 38:2 nickel 165:20 185:12 nickels 175:4 night 14:5 42:3 156:1 175:20 225:14 nine 129:19 205:17,19 nixon 13:19 nixon's 13:19 noise 78:2 non 157:11 normalized 194:15 normally 154:16 north 95:5 nose 104:22 notary 238:20 note 5:11 10:8 19:12 98:20 noted 192:12 202:20 notes 39:17 163:21 noticed 27:3 61:8,14 number 28:8 36:3,4 61:10 71:20 74:5,7 116:5 119:15 148:10,11 152:4,5,9 163:12,12,14 163:17 164:3 174:22 180:1 189:16 205:5 April 16, 2024 Page 39 207:15,17 208:3,6 210:21 numbers 135:5 167:12,13 177:5,5 184:1 186:21 204:11 204:13 numerous 15:17 numismatic 2:5 7:5 127:16 131:20 164:11 164:17 numismatics 2:18 6:18 161:15 166:6 nurturing 182:10 o o 4:1 5:1 o'clock 150:7 236:8,18 o2 232:6 oak 168:7 188:11 191:13 192:8 object 127:16 220:5 objection 12:10 objections 12:7 obverse 19:18 23:4,4,9,12 28:2 29:7,8,10 30:12,17 33:15 37:8,10,19,19 38:10 40:16 41:6,7,9 42:5 43:16 44:8,14 45:4,6 46:16 46:21 47:7,9 47:10 59:12 62:20 64:1,1,2 64:3,3,4,5,13 65:12 67:10,15 68:1,4 70:15 71:5 72:2 74:18 75:6,9 80:7 128:1 139:18 142:14 142:14 150:11 150:19 151:13 151:17,19,21 152:3,10 160:3 160:7,8 164:13 164:15 165:11 166:16,19 167:3 168:18 170:10,17 173:20 184:22 187:2 189:17 189:20 190:3 191:11 195:19 199:11 200:13 201:3 202:1,15 203:5 204:15 207:1,18 208:1 208:2,21 209:22 210:1 210:12,14,21 211:4 213:7,21 213:22 214:1 214:21 215:6 215:20 217:14 219:10,11 220:21 221:5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 221:13 222:12 222:16,21 223:4 224:3,3 224:22 225:6 225:19 226:6 226:10,11,22 227:19 231:11 231:16 233:12 233:14 234:11 obverses 29:6 32:2 41:5 42:14 152:13 155:21 163:5 178:16 189:3 204:8 206:14 214:18 obviously 42:20 70:7 157:15 189:18 190:2 206:13 211:22 236:4 occasion 18:16 147:13,13 occupying 42:3 occurring 121:13,18 odm 151:4 offer 119:5,18 120:21 134:20 134:20 144:4 156:5 223:4 231:2 236:5 offered 154:14 offering 46:17 office 2:22 3:12 8:16 10:3 75:11 154:13 155:1 Meeting [officer - order] officer 238:2 official 207:9 officials 10:18 81:19 oftentimes 196:21 oh 12:14 28:6 59:17 66:12 72:9 76:12 79:7 83:7 90:17 92:4 114:19 116:12 124:17 153:18 156:10 163:15 183:11 196:9 196:11 212:18 218:7 220:17 223:15 227:4 228:20 233:9 236:11 okay 13:9 22:22 39:13 43:4 48:5,11 48:14 51:17,19 51:22 52:14,15 52:21 53:4,6 53:14,15,19 54:21 55:7,9 63:8,20 65:14 69:16 73:19 75:7,15 76:22 78:18,19 79:2 79:5,10 82:22 83:11,22 85:8 90:15 91:21 92:2,4 105:6,6 124:17 128:19 129:8 131:4 April 16, 2024 Page 40 133:16 141:5 143:19 144:1 150:4,7 156:11 163:9 164:1,5 167:21 168:5 168:10,14 169:5,5,11,15 169:17,19 182:7,21 183:4 183:10 195:22 196:4 198:4 202:6 203:4 204:6 205:3 210:17 212:9 213:2 216:9 219:4,8,15 221:1,4,16 222:11 223:5 224:2 227:8,20 228:12 229:6 231:6 233:16 233:21 234:15 old 18:18 20:1 125:19 126:6 156:22 162:8 164:7 165:1,4 172:19 181:11 older 34:15 96:3 109:7 173:13 182:18 olive 166:7 192:9 ollie 49:22 50:1 50:2 53:8,8 olympic 161:21 once 16:6 34:22 64:12 129:15 169:6 180:20 204:9 205:12 onedia 121:7 oneida 3:14,16 3:18 10:17,20 10:22 80:13,14 81:8,8,18,22 82:2 84:7,8,12 84:19 85:5,18 85:21 86:8 87:8,8,15,20 88:9 89:4,11 89:14 95:22 96:2,11 97:5 97:15,17,17 110:9 124:3 132:22 133:1,2 133:4,8,8 137:5,14 138:6 138:13 139:3,3 oneidas 80:11 80:22 86:3,15 87:2,4,12 88:2 91:1,4 93:16 95:10 99:8 124:5 ones 39:5 50:10 102:21 109:20 178:1 179:22 206:15 open 20:9 35:5 35:7 193:15 208:3 213:5 230:16 opens 171:3 operating 95:4 opinion 41:8 145:21 146:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 161:22 166:15 171:6 187:16 197:14 214:16 216:18 220:2 opinions 15:19 30:9 opportunity 30:16 85:1,4 123:21 128:4 opposed 65:21 76:9 92:20 93:17 125:1 141:21 145:4,6 145:13,14 158:14 220:12 224:10 227:12 228:7,8,19 229:1,2,3,5,10 229:11 232:15 opposing 220:19 opposite 149:3 oppression 31:4 32:20 opt 174:22 option 62:3 152:10 222:7 231:5 optional 151:21 optionally 153:1 options 62:9 175:10 227:7 oral 80:18 125:22 order 4:3 5:3 11:8 12:11 Meeting [order - people] 39:16,16 100:21 101:19 207:22 210:16 orders 62:1 ordinary 149:11 organization 137:13 organizations 132:18 oriented 45:21 188:5 original 142:5 origins 196:16 196:17 ought 184:19 ounce 151:15 152:20 outcome 238:16 239:12 outlet 196:22 outrage 40:8 41:17 70:11 outreach 137:14 154:15 outside 78:4 190:14 outstanding 12:15 164:16 166:10 outstretched 188:14 overall 43:12 85:3 102:3,6 104:11 158:3 177:22 overdone 175:4 181:4 April 16, 2024 Page 41 overdue 19:5 overkill 110:5 overly 162:6 overriding 147:11 overview 31:15 own 95:6 177:10,10 184:20 189:15 235:6 p p 2:1,1 3:1,1 5:1 p.m. 5:8 150:2 237:3 pack 127:10 page 4:2 106:21 107:1 168:10 paging 100:3,5 pair 23:11 215:18 216:7 217:8 219:18 221:5 226:2 228:4 paired 162:17 201:3 226:22 pairing 210:4 213:11 216:14 218:11,11,11 218:15,16,17 220:9 227:18 233:12 pairings 221:13 231:21 pairs 190:2 210:3,8 216:15 216:16,18,21 palette 111:16 111:17 parent 41:19 paris 187:9 194:19 parity 119:22 120:10,12 parker 50:3 127:3 part 17:12 32:17 34:13,20 35:7,22 36:6 41:3 50:2 61:20 68:10 69:6 94:19 95:12 97:7 107:18 136:20 140:3 144:4,8 202:10,10,22 222:13 236:4 participate 84:3 85:2 102:20 participation 149:22 particular 131:11 148:12 particularly 22:17,18 37:11 43:3 47:4 62:13 67:7 95:9 102:1 118:8 148:9 168:9,21,22 169:19 179:3 199:5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 parties 238:12 238:14 239:8 239:11 partners 84:15 89:5 pass 190:10 227:1 passed 19:3 21:11 past 17:17 61:18 patch 50:21 path 95:6 paths 71:12 patience 78:6 79:16 180:17 180:18 patterns 163:5 164:8,9 paul 8:3 13:21 pause 49:11 85:9 231:1 pay 176:2 peace 40:17 59:2 84:15 89:6 166:8 peaceful 189:22 peeling 31:4 pennsylvania 80:16 people 17:10 27:22 36:9,16 42:17,20 45:21 49:18 101:10 111:1 115:5,13 116:9 127:13 131:1 141:12 Meeting [people - point] 146:16 156:21 157:14 158:14 172:22 174:17 176:18 177:8 179:4 185:9 190:17,21 196:22 199:13 201:9,10 213:14 216:18 235:9 peoples 96:3 percent 67:11 perception 180:5 perfect 29:10 52:22 113:13 162:7,13 perfectly 27:22 52:13 period 45:14 permit 218:5 permits 190:14 perpetuate 174:18 perpetuation 174:17 persistence 32:21 35:1 person 16:7 42:22 45:21 82:1 83:20 115:3 170:15 176:10 178:4 178:22 personal 165:10 personally 29:19 107:22 April 16, 2024 Page 42 131:9 perspective 106:14 122:22 182:2 218:9 perspectives 106:19 persuade 36:4 110:18 persuading 45:3 persuasion 36:18 peter 1:4 2:5 7:4 27:19 35:15 119:1 133:12 186:16 210:20 217:5 pharaoh 167:19 pharaohess 167:20 philippines 14:1 phone 50:21 52:18,20 photograph 20:14 29:11,12 photographic 32:9 phrase 142:6 phrasing 29:16 physical 70:6 physically 41:11 45:2 98:14 pick 143:14 179:17 182:8 220:19 221:13 picture 54:3,4 91:12 154:2 pictures 123:1 199:15,16 piece 112:19 213:14 pile 23:20 piling 99:14 pilot 39:21 48:18 49:17 place 18:20 32:19 45:20 65:12 68:11 95:10 96:15 101:15 174:9 175:9 192:14 193:5 195:21 212:21 placement 66:15 plane 98:14 169:2 planets 183:12 planning 230:20 plate 69:22,22 play 178:9 played 84:20 102:7 playing 62:8 plays 85:5 plea 23:21 please 5:11,18 8:10 11:21 12:4 13:8 15:21 19:21 27:15,16 29:4 30:3,13 31:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 33:8 35:12 39:14 42:11 44:12 47:19,22 58:7 59:18,21 59:21 63:3,18 74:3 90:21 94:6 96:21 100:2 102:13 106:3,13,21 108:6 128:13 145:2,12 146:3 151:5 152:11 156:3 176:16 183:3 186:19 193:11 202:7,7 203:9 206:9 228:16 pleased 15:13 147:21 pleasing 28:7 pleasure 13:6 17:7 22:8 83:13 pleasures 12:19 plurality 173:2 pluribus 152:20 plus 144:15,16 158:22 pocket 127:14 podium 24:7 57:9 66:16,17 poet 48:16 point 5:8 34:22 62:9 64:3 74:11 76:16 98:15 111:2 Meeting [point - precedence] 127:19 149:3,8 157:4 158:1 162:1 163:2 193:21 194:5 204:18,19 205:14 210:20 211:12,20 222:2 233:8 points 63:22 64:4,7,7,8,13 64:14 100:19 129:16,18,19 129:19,20,20 129:21,22 130:1,1,2 135:1,4,13 149:10 187:3 204:9,14,15,16 204:16,16,17 204:17,17,18 204:18,20,20 204:20,21,21 204:21,22,22 204:22 205:1,1 205:1,2,2,2,8 205:12,13,13 205:14,15,15 205:16,16,17 205:17,18,19 205:19,20,20 205:21,21,22 205:22 206:1,1 206:2 208:19 222:4,5 poise 215:10 police 15:11 policy 3:17 10:21 13:16,20 April 16, 2024 Page 43 82:1 146:22 polish 26:3,15 polished 25:20 political 13:16 politics 13:20 pollinates 184:16 polly 10:19 17:14 80:12 81:20 82:7,11 84:9,11,15,19 85:14 86:10,20 87:11,14,22 89:7,13,16 90:3 91:3,8 95:9,18 98:13 99:4 101:7 103:15 104:12 106:15,17 107:5 109:15 118:2,19 119:2 119:16 120:5,5 122:1 123:7,13 125:17 129:5 138:7 polly's 144:10 144:14 pool 157:13 170:7 217:13 poor 112:5 pop 155:3 popping 187:20 189:8 pops 107:1 popular 197:6 211:1 portfolio 19:13 31:17 38:18 64:19 70:16 77:1,13 78:9 85:9 97:10 99:20 112:9,16 140:7 148:9,12 148:19 150:16 151:1,4 152:7 154:8,22 155:9 155:16,21 158:4 161:21 165:7 170:5 184:22 186:10 202:22 211:21 225:17 230:3,6 233:13 236:3 portfolios 11:4 71:21 147:2 165:1 174:10 174:11 207:22 230:11,13 portrait 32:8 47:10 portraiture 41:6 portray 28:10 28:11 122:11 portrayed 122:2 portrays 86:20 123:12 position 18:5 44:18 106:14 181:5 positioning 109:5 positions 106:18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 positive 187:21 positively 110:22 possibilities 143:1 possibility 117:22 136:16 possible 21:9 58:6 63:22 78:5 89:11 95:2,21 129:16 141:10 226:8 possibly 34:7 39:11 57:9 160:2 180:8 198:8 210:8 postal 189:10 postures 98:20 pot 85:15 potential 71:12 182:6 230:3,17 potentially 24:6 112:5 202:17 power 57:7 115:16 125:6 powerful 45:20 68:13 211:16 powerfully 18:21 46:14 practical 136:11 practice 197:7 practiced 197:4 pray 22:14 precedence 145:21 146:10 Meeting [precedent - proper] precedent 149:6,13 predate 17:19 prefer 70:5 211:17 preference 24:15 29:8 32:3 45:8 86:4 86:17 87:5,17 88:4 89:4,15 101:5 122:5 123:11 124:3 124:12 132:16 132:18 154:2 163:19 preferences 11:3 23:8 81:12 85:10 131:15,16 139:2 195:20 preferred 23:12 70:17 74:22 132:9 133:9 premise 174:16 preparation 80:20 101:10 101:17 prepare 80:19 prepared 71:6 86:11 239:3 prepares 85:15 preparing 80:19 100:21 presence 24:19 40:20 77:8 present 5:19,22 6:3,7,10,13,16 April 16, 2024 Page 44 6:19,22 7:3,13 8:10,14,17,20 9:1,4,7,10,13 9:16,20 10:1,5 15:13 19:17 63:5,16 71:11 78:12 97:7 128:15 129:13 138:3 150:15 151:4 197:17 203:10 204:4 presentation 12:12 144:17 presented 152:1 153:2 197:17 207:20 presenting 12:16 14:16 21:13 125:4 141:8 president 39:22 120:3,9 125:2 press 7:22 presume 178:4 pretend 78:3 pretty 43:11 68:2,6 114:15 114:18 117:8 187:8 222:5 previous 16:7 138:20 previously 207:2 primary 117:5 principle 13:20 print 134:19 prior 27:17 139:4 238:5 private 137:11 privilege 22:20 pro 177:9 probably 43:10 89:3 105:12 108:19 116:18 120:2 129:9 137:20 170:16 184:21 problem 114:7 117:11 197:20 problematic 31:2 problems 63:14 proceed 130:18 134:13 142:12 219:5 220:9 227:18 230:7 proceeding 239:4 proceedings 7:20 238:3,5,6 238:9 239:6 process 64:21 89:2,10 110:15 121:8 132:19 137:4 138:22 147:9,10 154:22 179:15 180:18 181:13 222:2 procurement 155:1 produce 113:21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 produced 15:3 61:20 95:14 producing 113:22 production 230:19 productive 99:5 professor 13:16 profoundly 18:20 196:22 program 17:5 17:13,16 18:10 24:22 61:21,21 62:2,5,6,16 84:5,9 92:7 94:20 97:2,22 151:9,10,12 153:10 154:14 157:9 165:10 165:14 212:2 214:20 230:22 235:21 programs 10:10 progress 40:9 project 30:5 40:3 prominent 103:15 promise 58:5 promptly 5:10 pronouncing 85:20 proper 70:19 74:16 80:20 108:1 131:3 Meeting [proper - raised] 214:21 properly 100:21 142:6 property 187:14 proposal 207:8 216:14 proposals 15:1 propose 220:21 220:21 proposed 207:2 prosecuted 21:9 113:7 protected 15:11 protecting 118:20 protective 99:7 protector 87:13 91:10 123:5 proud 198:19 208:12 provide 14:11 20:5 82:10 91:5 101:19 139:1 provided 15:16 90:10 provides 30:16 198:14 providing 33:11 82:10 113:5 118:20 proving 82:17 public 1:1 2:7 2:19,20 4:6,7 5:6,13,15,21 April 16, 2024 Page 45 6:21 7:2,11,12 8:1 11:11 12:13 14:17,19 14:21 15:14 19:16 30:10 31:21 40:10 46:11 67:6 103:21 147:6,8 176:13 187:11 187:12 238:20 published 20:16 publisher 165:3 pull 106:20 purdie 2:20 7:1 7:3 33:8,9,9 100:3,8,10 179:10,11,12 purpose 21:5 107:7 pursuit 21:15 141:1 pushing 235:1 235:2 put 32:22 37:20 51:20 53:13 59:22 66:9 77:5 103:20 119:2 125:3 155:16 178:19 181:19 201:17 209:11 211:2,15 225:18 226:13 226:15 231:10 puts 128:1 131:11 putting 16:2 37:16 230:12 236:2 q qualified 2:5 2:10,18 6:5,18 7:5 13:14 238:7 quarter 128:17 185:11 quarters 17:5 18:22 question 25:11 27:2 32:11 39:9 47:15 56:7 58:3 92:14 93:7 97:20 120:18 125:16 129:4 132:10 136:6 136:20 140:14 162:8 172:18 173:10 211:9 215:14 217:6 233:22 questions 24:22 25:6 26:20 27:12 55:10,13 56:5 58:1 92:7 94:1 118:6 119:17 124:15 126:13 153:10 155:17 193:10 201:21 quick 27:2 73:21 126:18 140:21 167:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 233:22 quickly 58:19 105:11 166:1 172:3 quiet 41:9,13 quite 14:2 28:21 45:2 46:1,4,7,13,18 47:10 49:14 60:21 103:15 114:10,11 115:2 117:19 167:15 174:10 177:2 191:2 192:15 193:1 235:19,20 236:4 quorum 7:7 quote 16:5 r r 2:1 3:1 5:1 192:9 r2 58:20 r23 232:6 r4 57:5 r6 55:15 racially 21:7 racism 21:2 24:1 radio 41:14 raise 26:7 120:5,8 174:6 176:9 206:21 228:15 229:8 229:10 raised 23:22 24:10 25:4 Meeting [raised - recommend] 39:9 41:14 43:22 47:15 65:2 66:16 67:19 69:17 71:18 74:14 92:10 118:6 120:18 125:13 133:15 144:5 198:1 208:15 225:1 231:7 raising 145:12 range 155:7,15 156:7 ranger 60:7 rate 195:8,10 rather 44:2 64:21 75:4 92:17 104:3 105:10,18 146:21 147:16 156:6 167:12 190:1 208:21 209:22 raw 82:15 rays 87:1 reach 155:2,2,3 155:4 180:5 reaches 86:1 reaching 180:11 181:7 read 39:17 40:11 67:1 163:13 reading 179:14 181:13 reads 24:2 86:3 86:15 87:3,15 88:2 April 16, 2024 Page 46 ready 53:4 78:14 79:18 204:6,6 205:11 real 17:7 73:20 167:10 172:3 184:13 realistic 184:11 reality 122:1 really 12:21 13:4,5 31:4 32:8 34:18 36:4,12 37:3 38:4,4,6,8,20 39:6 44:15 45:2,5,22 46:1 46:18 47:3,4,6 47:9 57:20 60:1,19,20 67:10,15 70:5 75:2 77:1 83:20,22 84:4 84:4,10,16,20 91:12 92:21 98:16 99:10,19 101:13 106:18 110:21 111:3 111:11,22 112:5,15,17,17 112:19 114:22 117:10,19 118:1 121:4,6 121:11,12 122:7,9 127:10 128:1 131:11 131:13 153:21 157:12,17,20 161:9 167:5 168:5,11,20 169:11 170:4,7 170:7,12,18,19 171:1,5,8,11 172:14,17,18 173:15,18,19 174:7 175:13 177:13 178:17 178:22 180:11 184:5 186:1,7 186:14 188:2 190:1,4,15 191:2,6,11,18 192:3,4,7,10 192:15,22 193:5 200:11 206:12,16 207:14 208:10 208:12 211:13 214:17 235:20 235:21 236:1 rear 55:14 reason 53:12 54:7 68:10,21 68:22 171:15 172:20 213:4 213:10 218:13 reasonable 104:15 reasons 42:17 45:4 46:22 138:2 175:1 181:3 rebellious 194:6 recall 188:16 202:12 recast 130:20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 receive 71:7 received 63:1 64:1,1,2,3,4,4 64:5,5,7,7,8,9 64:9,10,11,11 81:13 129:16 129:17,17,17 129:18,18,19 129:20,20,21 129:22,22 130:1,1 139:2 receiving 99:1 recent 161:20 recess 5:9 77:13 79:6,13 150:5,10 236:7 recessed 25:19 26:5,14 recipient 15:8 recognition 12:14 33:18 36:1 recognize 63:15 66:22 67:7 95:3 106:9 129:2,12 187:15 204:3 recognized 32:15 recognizes 14:20 recognizing 31:18 39:20 recommend 57:6 68:7 70:13,14 74:17 75:9 130:8,13 130:13,17 Meeting [recommend - remote] 135:18 136:7 139:20,21 150:18 195:18 210:6 213:10 222:16 224:3 227:17 recommenda... 34:6 64:20 68:9 71:16,22 72:3,18 75:10 122:9 137:19 141:2 165:10 207:21 212:20 218:10 225:7 231:3 233:2 234:10 recommenda... 14:11 21:17 48:15 71:7 73:14 137:22 147:1 198:9 recommended 2:8,12,14,16 6:2,9,12,15 21:18 56:18 132:8 190:6 211:22 215:11 recommending 131:9 reconsider 136:9 142:22 225:9 record 8:8 10:9 63:7 76:1 128:18 150:6 180:3 201:17 203:22 238:9 239:5 April 16, 2024 Page 47 recorded 5:12 238:6 recording 238:8 239:4 red 165:16 redesign 66:15 81:6 redesigned 66:19 75:1 130:10 147:2 redesigns 230:4 redoing 76:18 reduced 118:21 238:7 reemphasize 58:12 refer 93:9 152:9 163:11 189:15 reference 90:10 164:2 192:18 referential 109:10 referred 10:17 81:19 90:9 116:19 referring 177:4 reflect 16:20 33:3 reflected 55:19 55:20 56:4 57:8 reflection 55:16 reflections 48:20 94:22 reflective 54:11 reflects 54:2,2 54:8 reforming 185:4 regard 29:6,15 120:4 regarded 15:18 159:6 regarding 91:19 230:18 regardless 222:6 reinventing 200:13 reinvestigation 21:6 reiterating 123:20 rejected 226:5 related 29:14 115:20 238:11 239:7 relating 15:1 25:13 relationship 33:20 44:22 84:17 85:6 89:22 90:5 122:6,12 relationships 84:21 relative 238:13 239:10 relevant 37:4 68:4 156:20 173:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 relief 25:7 26:7 42:2 151:8 158:16 reliefs 34:13 religion 32:5 47:16 religious 32:4 36:15 48:20 54:8 58:14 remain 41:12 remained 80:22 remains 35:15 125:19 remarkable 17:22 178:18 remarks 163:3 remedied 120:13 remember 77:17 remembered 23:22 remembering 29:20 remind 5:14 27:14 64:17 94:4 234:21 reminded 121:21 reminder 35:2 reminding 181:16 reminds 162:21 165:13 171:16 remote 27:22 Meeting [remotely - reverse] remotely 8:1 14:4 removal 24:10 remove 120:10 removing 37:16 reopening 21:5 repeat 117:7 146:2,4 176:20 213:20 225:4 repeated 216:2 repetition 42:2 repetitive 43:18 replace 58:22 report 133:19 reported 1:16 reporter 59:20 65:6 77:19 117:15 133:21 201:16 210:10 223:17 represent 22:9 22:20 68:17 87:1 173:8 representation 24:12 84:16 180:13 representations 81:10 191:17 202:18 representative 3:14 10:17 71:9 81:18 84:11,19 89:17 representatives 81:15 86:19 88:7 April 16, 2024 Page 48 representing 2:7,19,20 5:20 6:21 7:2 23:20 35:7 84:6 137:10 181:22 187:11 represents 87:13 89:21 117:14 republic 202:14 request 50:4 136:14 requested 15:9 24:8 54:5 requesting 53:21 54:4 required 85:11 151:18 152:19 156:1 requires 37:14 37:15 157:12 research 10:18 81:20 101:4 researching 113:6 resemble 34:14 reside 89:13 resilience 32:21 59:2 resolve 41:18 63:14 147:21 resonate 18:21 resonates 96:11 190:21 respect 18:12 137:4 197:12 respected 15:19 194:22 195:2 respond 5:18 26:1 response 40:6 rest 57:20 148:11 150:2 179:7 restrict 74:20 75:4 resulting 35:2 results 63:5,16 128:15 129:13 203:11 204:4 retain 80:7 234:13 return 63:3 128:13 150:2 returned 80:22 reveals 155:9 reverb 83:14 83:17 reverse 19:18 23:18,19 24:11 24:14 25:16,17 29:15,18 31:1 32:16,18 34:11 35:9 37:4,9,10 37:10,12,13,19 38:1,1,5,6,9,11 38:12,12 41:8 41:8,10 42:6 43:13,16 45:9 46:17 47:7,9 58:20,20 59:12 62:20 64:6,7,8 64:9,9,10,10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 64:11,13 65:13 66:8 67:12,16 69:20 70:6,8 70:15 71:4,21 72:2,2 74:19 75:3,3,10 76:15 78:10 80:10 86:20 128:9 135:18 139:18 142:16 142:17 150:11 150:19 151:14 152:4,10,17 153:4 159:22 160:2,6,19 162:17,20,21 166:5,16 169:10 175:12 182:7,13 189:4 189:17 191:11 192:22 193:5 199:12 200:16 200:16 203:5 205:11 206:13 207:2,19 208:2 208:2 209:6,6 209:21,21 210:9,14 211:1 211:3 213:8,10 213:18,22 214:2 215:8,16 215:20 217:14 220:22,22 221:5,13 224:22 225:9 225:18,19 226:5,5,9,16 226:21 227:19 Meeting [reverse - room] 229:20 230:15 231:10,16 233:8,12,14 234:2,12 reversed 95:19 reverses 28:16 29:15 30:22 47:3 64:6 68:5 68:9 87:10 152:18 155:22 166:2 168:17 171:14 178:15 178:16 185:14 189:4,9 192:21 195:19 222:3 223:1 225:5 226:12 234:18 review 4:4,9,12 4:14 7:14,16 7:17 11:9 38:19 64:18 86:8 87:8,20 88:9 141:4 150:11 reviewed 15:7 19:13 reviewing 10:10 17:6,13 18:2,9 23:3 revise 72:1 141:3 142:8 revised 143:13 revisiting 146:15 revolution 94:22 revolutionary 17:18 80:15 April 16, 2024 Page 49 82:9 94:18 reworked 180:4 richard 13:19 richest 95:9 right 5:2 8:6 10:6 11:8,13 11:16 12:2,9 15:20 16:11,19 22:7 26:17 27:11,13 28:6 28:20 29:2 31:11 44:5 46:19 57:18 60:17 61:3,12 61:18 62:19 64:15 65:18,22 67:17 69:16 71:10,13 72:11 73:15 75:20 76:3,7,10,20 78:7 79:12,17 79:21 84:11,15 85:20 88:12 91:14 92:4,5 93:22 94:3,10 102:11 104:10 104:20,22 105:22 106:1 110:3 111:1,5 112:21,21 114:1 117:6 119:13 120:16 121:17,19 124:13 125:5 125:14 126:11 126:15 128:8 128:22 129:10 129:12 130:3 131:4 132:2 133:11 135:15 135:22 137:17 137:18 138:8 138:10,13,15 139:5,11 140:8 140:16,19 141:16,17 142:21 143:16 144:11,18,21 145:1,15,16,18 145:22 146:7 146:13,14 148:18 149:15 149:17 150:9 153:7 155:19 156:14 157:12 158:14,15,19 159:5 161:2,5 166:21 169:21 171:11 172:8 172:16 176:17 177:4 183:1 189:13 193:18 194:14 198:10 198:15 199:7 201:22 203:20 204:2 206:3 207:10 211:5 212:5 214:3 215:22 216:4 216:14 217:16 218:21 220:2,3 220:8,13 221:9 222:22 223:2,8 224:4,7,18,20 226:2,7,17,20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 227:9 228:3,9 228:18,22 229:9,13,15,16 229:17 232:2 232:19 233:4,9 233:19 235:2,4 235:10,13,16 236:20 righteousness 40:8 rights 13:20 19:10 20:21 21:8 40:9 rigidness 170:14 ring 29:14 188:6 risk 35:4 risque 183:21 river 20:5 road 111:9 216:22 robe 164:7 rock 171:10 185:6 194:7,20 roger 3:4 8:21 83:21 93:8 150:15 role 62:8 84:18 85:4 100:13,20 102:7,17 107:8 107:9 115:21 124:6 roll 4:3 145:11 194:8,20 rome 196:16 room 108:21 121:2 179:16 Meeting [roommate - seconded] roommate 175:20 round 70:21,21 70:22 201:11 rounder 23:14 rowing 157:21 run 5:7 109:17 running 51:11 russ 150:15 russell 3:5 9:2 s s 2:1 3:1 4:1 5:1 sacagawea 80:8,9 102:22 103:4 105:18 sacagawea's 17:19 sacrifices 17:3 sad 18:20 104:13 115:18 sadly 102:18 sadness 42:7 salisbury 13:17 salvation 40:21 satisfies 97:22 saturated 157:5 saunders 2:12 6:8,10 16:5 42:11,12,13 66:3,7,8,14 74:11,15,16 75:14 76:13 92:11,13 102:13,14,15 130:7,15,21 April 16, 2024 Page 50 135:10 136:5 142:4,5,19 143:8,12 144:7 144:11,20 149:2 167:2,2 171:21 195:8 196:2 208:16 208:16 209:14 214:11 216:13 220:18 221:3 221:12,19 227:13 232:9 save 182:15 saw 13:5 39:8 44:16,20 46:3 121:15 211:19 saying 12:5 38:7 40:4,22 44:5 56:11 65:19 73:2 118:18 119:9 137:4 138:10 145:2 149:9 194:16,18 200:4 210:3 213:5 228:4 says 56:16 61:9 175:21 236:10 236:12 scale 118:22 119:17 120:2 122:4 127:7 scales 125:1 scared 127:9 scarf 184:9 scarinci 2:16 6:14,16 35:12 35:13,18 65:3 65:7 110:14 116:13,16 146:13 153:14 153:16,18,19 155:13 156:10 160:15 198:18 200:8 201:8 207:11 219:14 219:16 220:7 221:17,21 223:21 233:18 233:20 234:7 234:20 scary 189:6 scenes 180:19 schedule 77:12 79:1 scheduled 5:7,9 scholar 13:22 school 97:6 scolding 187:8 score 59:12 61:5,9,15 62:11,11,20,22 68:2 128:9,11 135:1,4 190:7 195:18 198:7 199:8 202:1,3 203:4,7 222:9 scored 135:8 scores 62:7,7 63:5 68:1 128:15 129:3 203:10 scoring 61:6 63:17 64:2,8 64:12 129:14 134:16 195:20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 202:9 204:4,15 206:22 scratch 79:11 screaming 215:3 screen 80:10 216:5 219:10 scroll 166:4 sculpt 25:13 sculpted 25:19 sculpting 159:19 171:9 sculpture 124:8 sec 51:21 second 11:17 11:18 12:1 54:1,16,19 60:16 65:14 66:20 75:15,18 82:22 91:19 94:18 105:2,13 135:19,21 136:1 143:19 143:22 146:5 149:8 152:5 182:13 185:1 214:5 216:17 219:12,13,14 221:6,11 223:5 223:7,12,14,17 223:19,22 226:17,18,19 232:8,9 seconded 65:15 76:2 214:8 232:10 Meeting [secondly - session] secondly 102:19 seconds 214:7 secretary 4:5 7:11 11:10 14:22 15:6 18:3 21:17 23:14 64:20 70:16 71:16 73:11 147:1 151:9 212:1 233:3,15 234:10 section 38:21 see 20:12 23:15 23:19 24:5,13 25:4 26:13 28:3 30:13,18 31:5 34:4,11 37:3,14,16 39:5 40:13 41:16 42:1 46:8,12 48:20 53:15 55:17 56:16 57:16 59:13,19 62:15 65:1 68:16 70:6,9,20,21 71:4 74:21 76:12 80:9 92:10,22 99:16 99:16 102:5 103:20 109:13 110:18,19 111:8,10,16,17 111:21 112:8 112:10 113:16 117:11,21 April 16, 2024 Page 51 121:4 127:3 131:1,19,21,22 132:6 147:20 152:6,10 160:11 162:16 163:1 164:3,11 169:6 170:12 171:1,5,15,17 171:17 172:3 173:17 174:12 180:12 181:2,6 182:20 187:12 187:13,14 190:20 195:19 196:12 199:4 199:10 200:9 207:16,20,22 210:3,5 211:21 214:19 216:2,5 216:17 219:9 224:20 227:21 228:1 231:13 231:18 235:20 236:20 seeds 184:16 seeing 112:8 167:16 189:18 197:15 212:6 214:18,22 216:20 seeking 127:15 seem 118:8 119:3 210:7 seemed 67:11 68:2 120:12 seems 12:21 41:3 50:9 117:13 119:22 167:22 222:11 seen 20:15 61:16 161:19 164:14,21,22 166:8 174:8,10 175:22 176:5,7 176:10 189:19 192:7,13,17 193:4 selected 55:11 111:18 234:10 selecting 172:15 selection 183:22 selects 212:1 self 174:17 sell 158:17,19 semiquincent... 81:4 202:11,13 211:11 senate 2:14,16 6:12,15 81:13 84:2 86:5 87:5 88:5 97:14,16 137:8 send 48:16,17 sending 27:21 137:18 sends 174:20 senior 3:3,4,9 3:11,17 8:3,18 8:21 9:21 10:3 10:21 40:1 82:1 sense 40:17 41:10 101:21 154:3 172:2 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 183:20 196:20 senses 132:1 sent 173:14 separate 167:17 195:10 210:8 218:1 220:2,6 sequence 152:6 sergeant 60:14 60:14 series 36:7 38:20 103:8 111:3,5,11 113:13,19,22 114:4 116:21 156:13,14 158:16,21,22 159:2,4 177:22 234:22 235:1,6 serious 60:10 seriously 61:13 62:12 155:12 served 13:14 13:17 14:9,21 18:12,14 21:3 serves 116:9 service 4:7 7:12 12:13,15 14:14 14:17,19 15:14 15:22 16:17 189:10 servicemen 18:13 serving 12:19 sesquicenten... 94:20 session 5:7,9 7:10 Meeting [sessions - size] sessions 235:18 set 33:2 145:21 146:9 149:12 sets 146:22 setting 191:3 seven 64:4,7 205:1 several 17:6,20 32:2 133:3 177:8 221:13 shaped 67:5 share 20:20 68:8 85:9 90:9 154:6 177:19 202:12 shared 81:11 87:1 sharing 190:17 shed 125:22 sheer 101:6 sheet 61:9 204:4 sheets 61:15 62:22 63:17 128:11 129:14 203:7 sheila 3:13 10:13 21:21 22:6 77:2 sheltering 99:6 shenandoah 84:12 85:18,22 89:7 98:21,22 138:7 shield 157:1 shining 180:16 shirt 50:8 April 16, 2024 Page 52 shoot 108:15 178:8 212:11 232:5 short 37:8 shortest 16:8 shortly 19:10 shot 20:2 52:1 should've 63:1 shoulder 26:7 shoulders 86:2 185:17 show 45:5,17 46:4,15 59:5 68:19,20 69:8 84:7 180:4 showed 14:3 44:21 45:16 82:11 showing 45:20 45:21 49:18 53:18 91:4,9 92:20 shown 41:21 179:19 shows 40:21 42:17,18 43:6 43:16,16 68:19 86:10 87:22 89:7,18,19 101:16 107:4 180:17 shuffling 120:14 shy 115:22 sick 82:16 sickening 18:19 side 18:17 152:1,1,11,11 160:2 175:15 179:21 185:8 222:7 sides 17:21 162:14 sign 24:1 57:7 signature 238:18 239:16 signed 19:4 significant 17:2 38:14 62:8 signify 12:4 145:2,12 228:4 silence 153:13 silhouette 28:18 42:2 silver 4:16 7:19 15:6 103:9 150:13,19 151:9,11,16,20 152:2,22 153:3 153:12 158:12 159:8,9 160:12 160:16 161:11 166:17 167:16 174:3,13 176:3 183:17 195:11 195:22 198:12 199:12 203:6 207:1,3,4 208:20 209:12 210:11,12 211:2,16 213:7 213:10,13,22 216:16 217:11 218:1,11,17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 219:19 220:14 220:19 222:13 222:16 224:3 229:20 232:6 233:6,8,14 234:2,4,12 235:3,8 similar 26:13 69:5 188:9 similarity 175:7 simple 109:21 113:13 175:17 188:8 simplicity 29:8 47:9 117:22 123:14 simply 16:6 111:14 117:4 120:13 179:22 230:4 single 133:2 sir 27:5 74:4 sisters 40:1 sit 74:6 179:16 sitting 190:14 situation 149:6 149:14 six 64:5,9 129:20 135:1,2 145:15 204:16 204:17,18,21 205:19 229:12 size 95:15,19 103:4 111:17 112:21 127:16 144:12 150:22 186:13 Meeting [skies - spiritual] skies 40:2 skills 238:10 239:6 skin 109:18 slide 91:7 slightly 23:15 136:8 slipped 65:7 slow 201:2 215:11 small 127:9,16 smaller 98:13 98:19 111:15 smithsonian 22:18 124:8,9 smooth 109:18 snake 105:9 169:14 186:6 snow 85:15 86:15 99:13,14 99:16 110:2,5 115:9 118:20 snowflakes 123:3 soaring 169:8 169:10 186:4 society 42:22 102:18 soft 55:18 56:4 softer 56:4 soldier 86:1 soldiers 80:19 87:3 94:18 101:9 sole 49:14 solemn 19:12 solicit 225:7 April 16, 2024 Page 53 solidarity 24:1 solution 148:1 somebody 161:2 somewhat 104:21 176:12 son 20:10 30:14,19 33:18 34:10 40:19 44:20 80:8 son's 20:19,20 23:21 sorely 13:4 sorry 48:2 50:16 59:14,17 65:6,15 72:22 73:16 79:8,14 82:13 114:6 132:12 133:22 140:20 142:17 144:7 146:11 148:1,7 153:18 163:6 196:7,11 197:18 212:14 212:18 214:14 216:12 217:20 218:7 sort 95:3,11 96:2 189:5 sought 81:7 sound 52:6 54:17 71:15 188:7 sounds 108:9 203:20 sources 125:21 southwest 1:10 96:9 sovereign 95:4 sovereignty 95:6 96:1 sower 164:18 space 37:21 109:16 110:1 113:2 123:13 127:2 spacing 180:8 182:16 spare 177:3 speak 16:14 35:17,18 41:2 47:21 52:11,17 52:19 53:8 63:21 67:22 71:8 72:13 94:6 136:22 193:22 speaker 2:8 6:2 51:20 52:3 60:13 66:10 83:5,10 108:12 108:18 134:5 135:11 141:13 143:3,17 145:8 183:9 194:12 196:8,10 200:7 204:10 209:13 216:11 217:3 220:15 221:7 221:10 222:17 223:7,9,11,15 224:11 226:13 227:21 228:21 233:5 236:9,12 236:17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 speakers 12:6 54:15 56:17 65:20 76:8 77:22 123:1 141:20 142:1 145:3,5 200:6 220:11 224:9 227:11 228:6 228:11 232:14 232:16 speaking 5:15 20:20 27:17 46:7 217:22 speaks 107:7 199:19 special 83:20 84:4 102:16 149:6,14 154:21 specialist 3:3 3:11 8:19 10:3 13:15 specially 2:5,10 2:18 6:5,18 7:5 13:14 specific 85:10 specifically 14:9 25:15 spectacular 235:21 speech 66:16 spelled 140:6 spend 110:16 spending 12:19 spirit 50:11 90:12 spiritual 40:21 58:12,14 Meeting [spiritually - strong] spiritually 41:12 split 219:2 spoke 47:3 spoken 108:3 132:7,14 spot 16:3 spotlighting 17:7 spring 44:16 sprout 184:17 staff 8:9 127:4 140:22 207:22 stafford 2:22 8:15,17 9:13 19:17,22 23:1 27:5 56:20 57:1 71:6 78:11 79:2,8 79:15,21 82:18 85:8 90:7 93:5 93:11,15,21 132:21 136:14 138:21 140:20 151:6 163:6,16 164:1,5 202:5 202:8 211:19 212:6 215:19 216:1,8 224:17 226:3 230:10 234:5,9,16 stage 210:7 staid 181:5 stand 44:18 180:20 standalone 222:17,19 April 16, 2024 Page 54 standing 86:21 119:17 176:7 standpoint 106:7 stands 98:21 star 26:9 starburst 29:13 starry 42:3 start 11:7 23:3 23:9 30:13 33:10 39:19 40:4 53:2 79:1 82:5 85:13 92:12 121:1 137:3 146:15 152:14 153:22 154:7 156:11 162:15 170:10 183:11,12 194:17 206:7 216:19 started 49:6 194:6 starting 204:8 starving 80:17 state 77:17 185:11 stated 37:3,4 111:12 statement 38:15 41:15 staten 190:11 states 3:19 15:3 15:11,17 18:11 39:21 80:1,6 81:7 84:11,18 84:22 85:7,11 90:2,6 91:11 98:2,17 138:14 151:7 152:20 153:1 160:19 194:10 196:20 statue 90:9 157:2 158:6 162:4 173:2,6 188:13 190:9,9 190:15,20,20 191:1 215:8 234:3,7 statutory 151:11 stay 62:15 stays 62:5 steered 140:15 stepped 50:1 steps 21:16 stole 42:15 116:11 167:4 stomach 82:15 stomachs 80:21 stone 159:18 159:20 stood 35:10 175:12,13 179:22 201:17 stop 35:4 172:8 stopping 23:7 stories 121:12 story 17:14 20:20 21:10 23:21 33:17 90:12 94:17 101:1 103:7,11 104:9 105:7 110:1,9 115:5 121:10,11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 124:4 131:13 137:1,6 138:5 138:12 162:13 176:6 208:11 storytelling 131:22 straight 98:21 109:6 127:12 169:2 strange 105:5 straw 104:4 street 1:10 155:2 191:4 193:19 197:3,5 197:9,14,15 199:14,15,16 215:5,8 strength 20:11 40:15 41:14 42:8 45:17 59:2 86:7 87:7 87:15,19 88:8 107:7 131:21 166:8 strengthen 140:7 stress 162:12 stricken 70:7 strike 102:22 striking 46:5 100:12 102:21 strong 33:21 38:13 45:12 55:19 67:10 81:10 95:11 117:20 131:15 131:15 162:5,7 209:3 215:7 Meeting [strong - system] 225:6,6 strongest 99:19 128:3 164:10 166:5 strongly 54:2 57:15 90:1,4 147:13 200:2,3 struck 69:7 121:15 struggle 19:11 49:15 99:10 stuck 177:7 study 105:12 studying 127:15 stuff 123:3 stunning 236:3 style 28:9 112:7 161:13 161:15,19,22 162:3 165:13 166:19 180:9 200:22 215:9 231:17 styles 161:10 215:4 stylistic 209:1 231:15 stylistically 225:6,14 stylized 184:2 subcommittees 14:10 subject 10:19 21:19 28:10 41:2 81:10,20 86:8 87:9,19 87:20 88:8,9 April 16, 2024 Page 55 162:6 submitted 100:16 subservient 120:12 subverting 147:9 successful 40:5 sucker 185:2 suffer 41:20 suffered 41:20 55:22 suffering 20:11 41:19 suggest 50:20 57:13 58:21 59:11 67:14 200:3 216:15 suggested 24:9 136:15 227:7 suggestion 119:6 131:2 suggestions 21:18 75:1 sukrita 3:7 9:8 sullivan 3:3 8:18,20 19:17 50:20 51:12,17 51:19 52:5,10 52:14,19,22 53:2,14,17 55:7 78:11 summarize 166:1 sumner 57:10 sunflower 162:16 168:2 171:2 191:12 207:7 209:22 210:22 211:2 213:9,11 214:2 215:1,2,10,15 216:2,5 219:11 234:11 sunflowers 171:6 184:13 sunken 42:2 superfluous 61:17 support 29:9 33:5 36:5 91:20 99:21 140:22 189:11 supporting 30:19 141:13 141:15 supposed 79:1 197:10 sure 18:12 25:14 53:18 57:20 61:13 63:12 67:6 77:12,15 85:19 119:19 133:21 137:16 144:4,9 158:20 163:18 168:2,6 173:22 180:19 182:1 183:6 191:19 213:21 surprise 183:18 surrealist 155:3 survival 100:14 101:11 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 survive 101:9 suspect 112:8 208:12 sustain 89:20 sustenance 100:14,21 101:11,19 swirling 162:20 175:16 192:22 209:7 219:12 swirly 209:21 switch 106:14 swollen 80:21 sworn 238:5 sykes 49:6 symbol 87:14 184:18 189:10 symbolically 125:7 182:9 symbolism 131:21,21 165:2,19 166:12 184:15 189:21 191:15 symbolize 165:22 166:7 symbolized 86:12 symbolizes 168:3,6 symbols 157:1 182:15 symmetry 107:5 sync 137:21 system 146:21 Meeting [t - thank] t t 4:1,1 50:8 table 13:1 33:1 141:18 219:9 226:14,16 tackling 176:19 tagged 211:20 tagging 197:2 take 16:20 18:20 37:21 38:8 39:2 61:12 62:12 63:5 76:19 77:1,10 78:15 79:5,13 92:16 126:18 128:16 141:5 145:9,11 149:18 150:1 154:20 163:9 175:11 188:20 190:8,19 191:1 191:5 199:15 202:14 203:12 208:7,10,10 215:11 taken 20:15 148:15 236:4 238:3,12 239:9 takes 48:22 58:17 101:15 156:1 162:18 talent 155:8 talk 25:18 36:13 41:2 137:12 160:8 161:1,12 167:12 April 16, 2024 Page 56 talked 136:9 144:12,12 162:3 177:8 187:8 talking 37:6 49:2 77:18 123:2 153:22 154:8 175:2 tall 98:21 tallahatchie 20:5 tallest 120:3 tally 63:4 128:14 203:10 tap 96:2 task 62:1 tate 3:11 10:3,5 tattoo 155:4 193:18 taught 99:12 168:15 teaching 80:19 team 49:16 50:2,6 63:13 65:11 157:14 230:20 tears 76:15 104:14 technical 24:21 25:6,10,12 27:2 63:11 77:9 92:1,6,12 92:14 153:9 technically 26:14 technique 177:12 technology 94:12 teenager 60:6 tell 28:21 103:7 103:11 110:8 115:10 131:13 137:1,6 138:12 198:19 207:17 telling 46:2 105:7 120:1 121:10 162:13 208:11 tells 92:21 104:8 138:5 temperament 215:4 temperature 39:2 ten 64:7 78:16 203:14,16 tend 209:15 tends 180:10 tents 86:14 tenure 15:8 term 147:19 terms 33:15,17 34:11 42:14 43:13 55:14 74:5 95:8 103:2 119:11 144:16 163:22 168:17 180:8 180:14 182:7 187:14 209:4,4 225:17 terrible 27:21 44:1,1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 testify 20:18 testifying 238:5 testimony 20:6 20:22 text 42:4 118:21 131:12 131:12 188:12 textures 163:4 164:9 thank 8:6 10:6 11:1,19 12:2 13:6 16:10,11 16:17 19:22 22:16,16 23:1 24:18,19 25:22 26:16,17,19 27:8,10,11,19 28:15,20 29:2 29:22 30:1,4 31:7,8 33:6,7 35:10,11 39:7 39:15 40:3 42:9,10 44:10 44:13 46:18,20 48:10,14 50:7 51:2,7 53:20 54:20 55:9,22 56:9,22 57:19 59:8,9 60:13 60:21 61:4,7 62:16,17 63:6 64:15 67:17 69:18 71:13 74:12 76:3,20 77:7 78:5,8 79:15 82:18 83:12,18,19 88:12,14,21 Meeting [thank - think] 90:7 91:13,14 91:21 92:5 93:21,22 94:10 94:13 96:17,19 96:22 97:1 99:21,21,22 100:3,9 102:10 102:11,14 105:14 106:1,4 106:6 107:10 107:11 108:5 110:12 114:13 116:22 117:6 119:13 120:15 120:16 121:3,8 122:17,20 123:15,16,19 123:21 124:13 124:19 125:9 125:10 126:11 126:17 128:3,5 128:22 129:11 130:3 131:6 132:2,4 135:15 138:15 139:5,8 139:11 140:18 145:16,22 146:12 148:2,6 149:15,20 150:3 151:6 153:7 154:11 155:14 161:5,7 164:5 166:22 169:21 170:2 172:10,13 176:14,17 179:8,11 182:22 183:1 April 16, 2024 Page 57 186:17 189:12 189:13 195:3,5 197:20 198:15 201:15,19 203:1,2,21 205:9 206:3,17 206:18 208:14 210:20 211:7 215:12 216:9 218:21 222:10 224:18 225:2 232:2 235:10 235:17 236:8 237:1 thanking 15:21 31:13 33:10 39:19 thanks 58:8 97:9 100:10 106:5 161:8 176:21 197:19 217:5 that'd 207:8 theme 14:11,22 80:12 81:2,3 81:10 86:8 87:7,19 88:8 162:4 themes 40:13 thing 45:6 55:18 57:12 66:20 100:12 103:18 123:9 124:21 125:18 149:8 157:17 159:18 167:20 174:17 178:11 198:3 199:14 216:19 things 44:1 101:19 103:22 110:15,19 111:7 112:10 112:11 116:6 120:13,14 121:14 127:5 136:10 149:7 157:3 161:9 170:9 189:18 193:16,21 194:6 195:9 207:11,11 210:3 211:14 225:13 think 22:9,20 28:8,9,19 29:9 29:18 30:12,14 30:19 31:16,17 32:18 33:16,18 34:21 35:15 37:7 38:2,2,9 38:11,12,13,17 38:19 43:5,6 43:14 45:4,6 45:13,15 46:11 46:13,14 47:11 47:12 52:15 54:18 55:1,12 57:17 58:12,13 58:14,17 59:4 62:13,14 65:3 65:3,8 67:11 68:1,19 69:6 69:20 70:1,3 74:19,20 76:16 83:5,16 84:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 84:15 85:3 89:1,9,17,22 94:12 95:12 96:1 98:3,5 99:11,13,13 100:15,18,22 101:12 102:6 102:18 103:3,5 103:12,17 104:8,20 105:3 105:7 106:10 106:15,18 107:3,8,22 110:8,16,22 111:8,11 112:4 112:4,4,14,16 114:4,21,22 115:1,6 118:1 118:16,18 119:4,10 121:18,22 122:10,11,11 122:13,14 124:12 125:16 127:11,16 128:3 130:18 131:1,1,11,22 134:20 135:6 137:20 138:1,2 138:5,11 140:6 143:13 145:10 147:3,5,7,7 148:12 149:5,5 149:6,13 155:8 156:2,5,6,16 157:19,19,20 158:8,9 159:3 159:3,20 161:8 Meeting [think - time] 162:10 163:12 164:10,14,21 164:22 167:6,7 169:8,9,17 170:7,8,11,19 171:10,21,21 172:18,19 173:6,9,15,16 173:20 174:1,4 174:7,8,9,15 174:19 175:3 175:16 176:11 177:18,19 178:8,15,20,21 179:6 180:10 181:1,10,14 182:2,16 184:18,21 185:7 186:13 187:6,11 188:3 188:11 189:7 190:5 191:2,16 193:3,15,20,21 194:8,16,21 195:8,11,13 196:15 197:10 198:7,13,20,22 199:3,4 200:21 201:4,5,6,8 202:9 206:12 206:14,14,16 206:16 207:14 207:20 208:6,9 208:17 209:6 210:2 211:15 213:11,14,18 214:19,21,22 215:1,6 216:1 April 16, 2024 Page 58 216:21 217:1,6 217:10,10,11 217:12 218:10 220:1,22 221:21 222:8 223:21 225:5 228:9,12 231:19,22,22 232:1,11 233:1 233:1 235:21 thinking 31:17 44:19 98:6 112:19 120:1 163:21 178:13 179:15 third 49:7 216:17 thoroughly 53:11 thorpe 127:1 thought 29:11 32:2 43:15 46:1,7 61:16 68:6 76:14 92:15 104:1 105:5 121:5 122:9,14 123:9 141:6 168:1 173:6 178:17 178:20 183:11 185:3 187:2,17 187:19 188:15 188:17,20 189:1 223:9 thoughtful 15:16 thoughts 11:3 59:7 110:17 thousands 69:4 23:10,11,16,21 thr 59:20 24:7,14 25:1,2 three 15:5,6,9 27:3 29:12,17 16:5 18:22 29:20 32:5,6 20:4 49:17 32:13 33:3 53:10 64:11 34:10,14 40:7 72:12,19 40:16 41:10,13 129:21 133:6 41:18 54:1 135:3,5,13 56:16 58:16,16 136:10 138:22 62:21,21 142:10,12 till's 21:5 23:14 143:14,17 24:12 40:14 147:15 188:21 56:11 70:12 189:2 191:7,14 time 5:5 12:20 204:17,19,20 12:22 14:2,5 204:21 205:13 19:10 22:16 205:13,20 25:8 42:22 206:1,1 216:15 43:6 44:2,3 216:16 220:20 49:14 51:9 220:20 221:14 54:6 61:11,22 221:18 228:20 66:22 70:20 228:20,21,22 75:9 83:12 229:9,9 84:12,14 88:20 throwing 94:15 95:5 160:21 99:18 108:8 thunder 42:15 110:16 111:10 116:11 167:4 111:19 120:8 tie 189:7 120:22 125:20 tied 41:7 126:6 128:20 ties 113:14 129:5 130:18 till 3:13 4:10,10 134:6,18 7:15,15 10:11 137:12 142:7 10:11,13 18:19 143:15 156:1 19:3,7,7,14,14 163:8 170:11 19:19,19 20:1 173:5 174:9 20:8,14,18 175:17 177:3 21:3,4,9,22 177:17 179:7 22:1,1 23:5,6 181:2,12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting [time - tucker] 192:14 196:6 208:11 225:8 230:4,9 234:3 235:4 timeline 231:4 times 14:1 188:19 timing 136:11 tin 170:15,15 170:15 tired 162:4 today 5:11 8:10 10:11 11:2 12:16 13:5 14:14 15:13 16:21 17:12 19:13 21:15 22:2 24:19 37:4 59:2 63:12 64:20 71:16 77:3,8 81:18,22 83:20 84:6 88:16 90:2 102:9 110:20 112:9 132:17 147:15 148:14 149:20 156:21 173:7 197:6 198:21 199:7,9 today's 5:7 7:9 150:3 together 44:22 105:10 109:17 152:11 155:16 217:9 225:18 236:3 April 16, 2024 Page 59 told 197:11 tomorrow 5:12 16:21 18:8 112:14 236:8 tomorrow's 5:9 tone 56:4 took 45:11,16 53:10 68:14 69:2 tool 134:17,18 146:21 top 104:4 124:2 182:8 195:20 topic 30:7 207:9 torch 158:5 184:7 188:9 torn 162:5 totality 215:12 totally 115:16 197:12 touch 114:6 164:20 touched 174:7 touches 181:9 touching 45:1 192:11 tour 20:20 tourists 190:18 towards 26:7 54:13 69:11 101:6 109:11 track 139:15 tracks 32:9 tradition 80:18 107:18 150:22 166:6,14 177:15 traditional 41:6 89:19 155:6 160:6 164:17 168:12 169:7 177:17 178:5 186:5 187:3 188:18 189:18 193:17 199:22 200:2 200:22 207:7 traditions 107:19 125:22 tragedies 69:5 tragedy 45:12 45:14 trained 60:4 transcend 173:8 transcends 173:12 transcriber 239:1 transcript 5:15 239:3,5 transcriptionist 238:8 transport 101:18 transported 93:7,16 traveled 20:3 20:18 80:15 treasury 1:9 11:11 14:16,22 18:4 21:17 151:10 tree 102:1 109:9 188:20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 trees 86:14 trial 20:19 24:8 57:11 tribes 80:4 137:10,17 tricorn 86:12 tried 156:18,19 tries 109:3 tristan 197:9 troops 17:18 80:17 86:12 89:21 trouble 29:19 true 21:1 238:9 239:5 truly 17:22 178:18 215:9,9 trust 49:2 151:20 try 30:5 35:13 36:13 48:5,11 52:8 63:14 79:19 90:13 97:12 114:7 132:21 156:3,4 176:20 178:9 178:10 195:21 210:12 231:2 trying 31:19 77:22 78:16 115:19 119:9 174:2 197:13 tucker 2:18 6:17,19 11:15 11:15 25:5,5 25:12,15 26:11 26:19 39:14,15 56:7,9,13,22 Meeting [tucker - university] 69:18,19 75:18 75:19 76:1 96:22 97:1 126:16,16 131:6,8 139:14 139:15,20,22 140:3,9,14,17 141:8,11 143:21,21 146:19,19 161:7 163:15 163:20 164:4,6 213:20 214:15 214:15 225:2,3 229:22 230:1 233:1,9 tuesday 1:5 5:4 tune 108:3 turn 12:17 16:1 48:6 52:5 63:9 79:20 117:15 117:16 148:7 150:14 151:3 194:1 turned 169:15 191:8 turns 51:12 turrets 181:22 tuskegee 40:1 49:8 60:4,6 tweaking 182:4 twice 190:10 two 5:6 15:5 17:21 18:3 27:7 36:4 38:20 40:13,15 42:16 43:3,21 55:15,15 57:14 April 16, 2024 Page 60 67:10 70:14 71:1 74:21 94:15 97:19 103:13 104:6 109:13 129:22 129:22 130:1 135:3,12,13 149:7,9 150:20 159:9 161:10 162:14 165:9 168:9 171:22 173:15 175:1 181:11 183:20 187:7 200:21 204:16,16,20 204:21 205:2,2 205:2,14,15 207:11,11 208:6 210:8,21 213:12 215:3 216:5 218:1 220:20,20 228:17 230:12 231:20 type 55:18 157:17 160:6 170:15 typewriting 238:7 typically 15:7 171:4 183:12 230:20,21 u u.s. 1:9 8:12 13:2,16 15:12 22:17 81:3 102:20 107:10 161:16 162:1 189:10 ultimate 89:3 um 92:3 uncelebrated 102:18 uncertain 125:19 uncle 20:3,5 under 81:5 162:12 172:22 understand 29:21 32:7 40:22 101:2 102:2 123:2 131:10 138:4 148:4 187:9 understandable 181:5 understanding 30:21 71:2 115:6 132:15 142:22 189:21 225:17 understandings 95:3 96:3 understood 123:6,11 181:21 undertook 68:20 unfortunately 34:4 35:3 50:19 231:20 unidentified 52:3 60:13 66:10 83:5,10 108:12,18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 134:5 135:11 141:13 143:3 143:17 145:8 146:2 183:9 194:12 196:8 196:10 200:7 204:10 209:13 216:11 217:3 220:15 221:7 221:10 222:17 223:7,9,11,15 224:11 226:13 227:21 228:11 228:21 233:5 236:9,12,17 uniform 127:4 unique 40:17 119:10 171:11 214:16 uniquely 165:18 unite 22:15 united 3:19 15:3,11,17 18:11 39:21 80:1,6 81:7 84:10,18,21 85:7,11 90:1,6 91:11,19 98:2 98:17 138:14 151:7 152:20 153:1 160:19 194:10 196:19 universal 30:15 30:19 university 13:17 Meeting [unknown - want] unknown 35:15 unmuted 83:3 unser 8:4 unum 152:20 unusual 137:11 178:7 187:22 ups 39:12 upset 158:18 upstate 97:4 upwards 102:5 urban 161:18 use 29:11,13 39:4 70:22 109:22 112:6 158:12 162:13 163:4,17 164:9 165:21 180:9 186:21 211:3 212:1 used 80:8 134:18,19 146:21 163:14 179:1,1 234:14 useful 198:7,8 218:12,19 using 16:4 38:21 112:3 158:4 usually 181:6 190:16 v v 13:21 valid 33:20 76:16 valley 17:18 80:11,16 85:17 April 16, 2024 Page 61 86:3,16 87:4 87:16 88:2 91:2,5,9 95:10 95:22 96:15 99:10,12 101:2 103:7 109:8 110:3,10 113:5 113:8,14 115:20,21 124:6 125:20 128:2 129:5 values 173:13 van 1:4 2:5 7:4 59:20 variation 37:12 varieties 75:3 various 10:10 100:16 192:13 vasquez 3:4 8:21 9:1 93:9 150:15 veer 101:6 vein 16:9 202:16 ventris 18:5 venture 33:13 versions 152:2 153:3 versus 55:18 109:18 123:7 182:14 183:17 vertically 86:13 vest 17:10 victory 67:2 201:14 videos 176:22 view 114:9 149:8 176:12 190:15 198:11 viewer 40:6 70:4 180:20 181:16 182:3 viewers 100:22 viewpoint 131:20 violence 32:20 34:21 40:14 virtual 63:10 virtually 159:3 236:21 visible 118:11 vision 154:4 visionary 153:21 visit 20:3 visual 70:5 98:14 131:14 177:15 179:2 visualize 122:15 visually 125:7 voice 19:9 30:5 196:18 volume 78:1 vote 66:17,18 70:14 74:21 129:21 130:8 140:12 141:17 142:9 143:18 173:17,22 175:17 176:9 184:3 186:15 195:14 205:18 210:21 220:20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 224:6,7 232:12 232:20 voted 143:11 143:12 145:7 146:14 147:19 233:2 votes 110:11 146:16 184:12 208:22 210:1 225:22 226:10 voting 146:21 147:10 216:19 w wait 25:8 39:9 66:5 146:5 waiting 160:13 199:1 wake 19:1 walking 164:18 188:22 191:22 192:6 want 5:12,14 5:17 10:8 31:12 32:6 33:10 36:12,19 37:2,18 38:8 38:16 39:10 48:16,17 60:1 63:9 67:21 74:8 77:12 85:19 90:3 96:9 108:2 117:15 134:17 137:3 147:8,12 147:18 149:12 150:16 151:2 152:10 155:20 Meeting [want - weinman] 156:19 157:22 163:1,18 164:11 170:21 171:15 174:2,3 179:13 183:16 193:22 194:5 195:1 196:2 198:19 207:12 207:20 208:3 210:20 212:12 214:19 wanted 20:12 22:21 29:10 38:10 58:9,10 58:10 67:22 125:8 126:18 170:9 174:6 202:11 206:12 209:19 212:3 wanting 94:16 war 17:18 80:15 82:9 84:14 89:5 157:1 warm 44:21 warmth 44:22 45:5 46:15 47:1 warrants 181:20,20 warren 2:3 7:21 8:2,3 9:17 9:20 11:20,21 35:17 48:2,8 48:13 49:9 51:5,14,18,22 53:3,5 54:16 54:20 55:1 April 16, 2024 Page 62 59:15 66:9,13 73:16,17,20 75:21,22 77:15 77:16 78:15,19 78:22 79:4,7,9 79:14,19 83:3 83:9 92:3 108:13,16,20 119:20 124:16 128:19 133:12 133:14 134:4 142:16 146:4,8 150:4,7 183:8 196:5 203:18 204:1 210:15 212:19,22 213:2,4 223:16 223:19 228:14 228:17,20 229:6,12 236:16,22 warriors 80:14 washington 1:11 85:22 86:22 89:8,21 95:18 98:7,19 98:22 103:6,14 104:2 106:9,15 106:16 109:5,7 112:19 113:8 118:3,22 119:4 120:2 122:4 123:7 125:2 130:10 washington's 17:18 98:15,21 104:10 washy 67:16 watch 176:22 177:2 watching 5:13 8:1 watts 180:15 wave 170:20 way 22:15 33:22 34:1 42:19 44:5 46:10 47:5 66:17 67:5 71:11 93:1,16 96:5 99:9 103:17 104:3 109:3 113:4 114:21 116:10 120:15 125:8 130:19 141:11 144:6 146:14 148:5 154:10 158:2,11 162:18 166:9 174:1 176:8 177:9,10,13,16 178:19 179:1 179:19 180:4 180:11,17 181:18 184:12 186:12 187:21 190:11 195:14 196:17 197:18 200:2 206:17 207:21 211:6 225:17 234:17 ways 45:1 95:19 96:2 100:17 136:12 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 157:11,22 191:2 192:19 198:9 217:8 we've 17:5 57:14 72:6 76:14 77:10 97:10 120:3 143:10 145:21 156:18,18 157:2,2,2,3 159:4,16 161:19 164:14 164:21,22 166:8 174:8,10 185:10,11,12 186:4,4,7 189:19 192:13 192:17 217:13 232:11 weak 132:1 weaken 162:6 weaker 41:7 wear 50:8 weather 190:14 week 172:21 weekend 83:21 weeks 53:10 125:18 177:1 weigh 97:11 weighed 133:1 139:4 148:11 weighing 137:12 weight 131:12 weinman 3:9 7:8 9:21 10:1 52:17 53:1 61:7 63:4,15 Meeting [weinman - wrong] 63:19 72:22 73:6,9,13 105:20 128:14 129:2,13,15 133:18 134:10 134:15 135:12 154:14 198:6 198:11 202:2 203:10,14 204:3,6,12 205:7,11 218:8 218:19 weinman's 164:18 welcome 5:12 11:1 30:11 88:14,19 90:18 126:2 went 20:19 46:5 54:9,10 68:15 101:17 122:14 154:17 163:20 169:9 176:19 206:16 206:17 west 181:11 wheeler 50:3 white 80:17 96:4 wide 167:22 wild 165:11 willa 60:2,3,8 willing 154:6 201:10 218:4 218:22 win 178:10,11 wind 162:11 April 16, 2024 Page 63 wing 185:19 wings 23:12 33:22 34:8 36:14,21 40:20 54:7,11 169:18 192:22 216:3 219:12 225:12 winner 165:15 172:4 178:12 206:13 winning 159:2 166:16 wins 168:14 winter 85:16 99:10,13 winters 102:2 wise 34:7 116:7 wish 209:8 wishy 67:16 witness 20:6 238:4 woman 17:16 18:4,6 19:8 39:21 55:19 74:6 80:13 138:20 189:1,1 192:6 women 17:5,8 17:20 18:3,13 69:4 won 159:4 wonder 125:22 wondered 154:5 wonderful 96:19 97:10 100:8 166:12 wonderfully 99:15 wondering 25:16,17 136:21 159:7 177:1 word 50:19 95:21 112:6 114:16,16 194:1,2 wording 56:14 words 16:2,9 20:11 22:4 33:2 45:22 50:17 51:1 58:22 59:1,3,5 70:8 82:4 83:16 wore 43:7,8 work 14:8 16:20,22 17:3 33:3 45:18 66:11 76:18 77:4 78:1 83:8 94:14 101:14 108:4 115:2 156:5 164:10 164:16,22 174:19 180:9 190:12 191:7 202:11 212:4 217:9 222:22 230:14 236:4,6 worked 60:2,3 137:8 workers 111:21 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 working 14:10 28:3 60:6 77:20 83:4 94:12 121:9 180:19 209:13 works 38:9 101:4,8,21 103:5 182:11 182:16,18 world 8:3 20:12 23:19 31:5 37:2,13 37:16 41:15 42:1 45:16 46:8 55:17 68:15 70:9 191:8 197:4,7 worried 105:4 126:20 worry 96:6 worse 109:6 worthy 62:13 189:2 would've 32:14 92:15 102:5 129:8 184:10 wrap 172:3 184:9 wrapped 185:18 wraps 86:1 write 216:15 wrong 36:22 71:3 115:16 142:20 174:20 216:21 231:12 231:18 Meeting [y'all - zoo] y y'all 128:10 yancey 1:16 238:2,19 yay 224:15 yeah 47:19,22 51:8 52:5,19 53:3 55:4 58:8 67:17,21 71:19 72:6,9 73:8 83:3 92:11 107:11 117:16 131:6 133:13 133:18 134:3 134:12 135:11 139:20,21 145:10 161:4 164:4 170:19 170:21,21 171:12,13 172:1 185:20 194:4 196:11 199:14 204:13 210:19 211:12 213:1 214:13 217:4,19 218:3 218:6 219:2 220:7 223:19 224:1,17 226:15 227:2 227:17 228:14 233:11 235:7 235:10 236:19 year 13:5 18:18 20:1 21:12 62:3,10 79:21 99:18 165:4 April 16, 2024 Page 64 years 14:9 17:6 22:10 62:3 102:19 192:20 199:1 202:15 230:12 yell 78:4 yellen 18:4 york 60:5 84:8 85:5 89:4,15 97:4,8 124:7 137:15 191:3 199:18 200:9 york's 91:20 124:3 yorker 180:2 young 67:4 115:3,4,13 189:1,1 younger 23:16 144:6 156:21 213:14 youtube 5:13 z zaiken's 165:13 zero 62:11 64:10 zoo 200:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 1 1 CITIZENS COINAGE ADVISORY COMMITTEE 2 CCAC Public Meeting 3 4 5 6 Moderated by Chairman Peter van Alfen 7 Wednesday, April 17, 2024 8 9:02 a.m. 9 10 11 Department of the Treasury 12 U.S. Mint 13 801 9th Street, Southwest 14 Washington, DC 20220 15 16 17 18 19 Reported by: Matthew Yancey 20 JOB NO.: 6590123 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 List of Attendees: 3 Jennifer Warren, Director of Legislative and 4 Intergovernmental Affairs and Mint Liaison to the CCAC 5 Peter van Alfen, Specially Qualified as a Numismatic 6 Curator and Chairperson of the CCAC 7 Arthur Bernstein, Representing the General Public 8 Dr. Harcourt Fuller, Recommended by the Speaker of the 9 House 10 Dr. Christopher Capozzola, Specially Qualified in 11 American History 12 John Saunders, Recommended by the House Minority 13 Leader 14 Michael Moran, Recommended by the Senate Majority 15 Leader 16 Donald Scarinci, Recommended by the Senate Minority 17 Leader 18 Dennis Tucker, Specially Qualified in Numismatics 19 Kellen Hoard, Representing the General Public 20 Annelisa Purdie, Representing the General Public 21 Kristie McNally, Deputy Director, U.S. Mint 22 April Stafford, Chief, Office of Design Management www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 3 1 A P P E A R A N C E S (Cont'd) 2 List of Attendees (Cont'd): 3 Megan Sullivan, Senior Design Specialist 4 Roger Vasquez, Senior Design Manager 5 Russell Evans, Design Manager 6 Boneza Hanchock, Design Manager 7 Sukrita Baijal, Design Manager 8 Joseph Menna, Chief Engraver 9 Greg Weinman, Senior Legal Counsel and Counsel to the 10 CCAC 11 Brendan Tate, Senior Government Affairs Specialist, 12 Office of Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs 13 Jennifer Vanderveld, Chief Operating Officer of the 14 Marine Corps Heritage Foundation 15 Major General James W. Lukeman, for the President and 16 Chief Executive Officer of the Marine Corps Heritage 17 Foundation 18 Robin Salmon, former CCAC Member 19 Elizabeth Young, Mint Counsel on the 250th United 20 States Marine Corps Commemorative Coin 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 4 1 C O N T E N T S 2 PAGE 3 Call To Order and Roll Call 4 Public Service Award to Robin Salmon 5 Review and Discussion of Candidate Designs 6 For the United States Marine Corps 250th 7 Anniversary Commemorative Coin Program 8 Review and Discussion Candidate Designs for 9 The Janet Yellen Secretary of the Treasury Medal 10 Review and Discussion of Candidate Designs for 11 The Ventris C. Gibson Director of the Mint Medal 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 5 11 16 92 96 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 5 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 MS. WARREN: Good morning. This is day 3 two of the CCAC Public Meeting. 4 thank everyone for their patience yesterday. 5 hopefully have fixed all the new technology in all the 6 programs, so I do thank everyone for being 7 understanding. 8 Chairman. 9 I wanted to first We And on that I will hand it off to the CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Good morning. Thank you very 10 much. 11 meeting of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee on 12 Wednesday -- 13 14 I will call back to order this MR. TATE: Oh, can you use your microphone, Peter? 15 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: I'll start 16 over. 17 meeting of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee for 18 Wednesday, April 17, 2024. 19 the second day of a two-day public meeting that began 20 yesterday. 21 livestreaming on YouTube. 22 Good morning. Sorry. I call back to order this The time is 9:02. This is Welcome to those watching the meeting Today's session is scheduled to run www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 6 1 until approximately 3:30 p.m. 2 meeting is being recorded. 3 members to announce your name when you are speaking 4 for the transcript and for the public listening. 5 I want to remind the Before we begin, I want to reintroduce 6 members of the Committee. 7 when I call your name. 8 the general public? 9 Please respond "present" Arthur Bernstein, representing MR. BERNSTEIN: 10 11 A reminder that today's Present. CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Dr. Harcourt Fuller, recommended the Speaker of the House? 12 DR. FULLER: Present. 13 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Dr. Christopher 14 Capozzola, the member specially qualified in American 15 History? 16 DR. CAPOZZOLA: 17 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 18 Present. recommended by the House Minority Leader? 19 MR. SAUNDERS: 20 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 21 22 John Saunders, Present. Michael Moran, recommended by the Senate Majority Leader? MR. MORAN: Present. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 7 1 2 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: recommended by the Senate Minority Leader? 3 MR. SCARINCI: 4 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 5 Present. MR. TUCKER: 7 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 9 10 Dennis Tucker, a member specially qualified in numismatics? 6 8 Donald Scarinci, Present. Kellen Hoard, representing the general public? MR. HOARD: Present. CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Annelisa Purdie, 11 Representing the General Public? 12 Alfen, the member especially qualified as a numismatic 13 curator and the Chairperson of the CCAC, and I believe 14 we have a quorum. 15 And I am Peter van The agenda for today's session includes 16 Public Service Award Ceremony for former CCAC Member 17 Robin Salmon; Review and Discussion of the Candidate 18 Designs for the United States Marine Corps 250th 19 Anniversary Commemorative Coin Program; Review and 20 Discussion of the Candidate Designs for the Janet 21 Yellen Secretary of the Treasury Medal, and Review and 22 Discussion of the Candidate Designs for the Ventris C. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 8 1 Gibson Director of the Mint Medal. 2 The view and discussion of the 3 candidate designs for the Joseph R. Biden Presidential 4 Medal will be reviewed a later meeting. 5 begin our proceedings, I ask the mint liaison to the 6 CCAC, Ms. Jennifer Warren, if we are aware of any 7 members of the press who might be watching the public 8 meeting. 9 MS. WARREN: Good morning. Before we This is 10 Jennifer Warren. 11 World, Senior Editor, and Mike Unser, Founder and 12 Editor of CoinNews Media Group. 13 We do have Paul Gilkes from the Coin CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: All right. Thank 14 you very much. For the record I would also like to 15 confirm the following Mint staff who are in attendance 16 today, so please indicate your presence after I call 17 your name. 18 Mint? Deputy Director Kristie McNally, U.S. 19 MS. MCNALLY: 20 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 21 22 Present. April Stafford, Chief, Office of Design Management? MS. STAFFORD: Present. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 9 1 2 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Senior Design Specialist? 3 MS. SULLIVAN: 4 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 5 Present. MR. VASQUEZ: 7 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Present. MR. EVANS: 10 Present. CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: MS. HANCHOCK: 13 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Present. MS. BAIJAL: 16 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Present. Michael Costello, Manger of Design and Engraving? 18 MS. STAFFORD: 19 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 20 Chief Engraver? 21 I -- 22 Sukrita Baijal, Design Specialist? 15 17 Boneza Hanchock, Design Specialist? 12 14 Russell Evans, Design Specialist? 9 11 Roger Vasquez, Senior Design Specialist? 6 8 Megan Sullivan, Not present. Joseph Menna, Joe, I can see you on the screen, but MR. MENNA: No. I'm present. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 My audio Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 10 1 went out for a second. 2 My apologies. CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: No problem. 3 Jennifer Warren, Director of Legislative and 4 Intragovernmental Affairs and Liaison to the CCAC? 5 MS. WARREN: 6 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 7 Present. Greg Weinman, Senior Legal Counsel and Counsel to the CCAC? 8 MR. WEINMAN: Present. 9 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Elizabeth Young, 10 Mint Counsel on the 250th United States Marine Corps 11 Commemorative Coin. 12 MS. YOUNG: Present. 13 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Brendan Tate, 14 Senior Government Affairs Specialist, Office of 15 Legislative and Intergovernmental Affairs? 16 MR. TATE: Present. 17 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Thank you very 18 much. And finally, I want to note for the record that 19 we will be joined in the meeting today by the liaisons 20 for various programs we are reviewing. 21 States Marine Corps 250th Anniversary Commemorative 22 Coin Program, we'll be joined in person by Jennifer www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 The United Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 11 1 Vanderveld, Chief Operating Officer of the Marine 2 Corps Heritage Foundation, and Major General James W. 3 Lukeman, President and Chief Executive Officer of the 4 Marine Corps Heritage Foundation. 5 6 7 MAJOR GENERAL LUKEMAN: Thanks for having me. CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Thanks for joining 8 us today, and we certainly look forward to hearing 9 your preferences. I'd like to begin with the Mint. 10 Are there any other issues that need to be addressed 11 before we start? 12 MS. WARREN: No. 13 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: All right. So 14 hearing none, the next order of business is actually a 15 great joy for all of us. 16 the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee Public Service 17 Award to Robin Salmon in recognition of her loyal and 18 outstanding service. 19 It is the presentation of Deputy Director McNally will be 20 presenting this award to Robin in just a few moments, 21 and Robin is joining us virtually. 22 And before I turn it over to Deputy www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 12 1 Director McNally, I would like to say to Robin and 2 everybody who is with us that it really is a great 3 pleasure to see you again, if only virtually on the 4 big screen. 5 Committee together seemed far too short. 6 The time the two of us served on the And your presence on the Committee has 7 been sorely missed in the year plus since we saw you 8 last, especially before the measured, really sharp 9 observations and comments you always brought to our 10 discussions, not to mention your very good humor and 11 company, and with that I'll turn it over now to Deputy 12 Director McNally. 13 MS. MCNALLY: Good morning, everyone. 14 Appointed to the CCAC in October 2018, Robin Salmon 15 served as a member specifically qualified in sculpture 16 or medallic arts. 17 Ms. Salmon is the President of Art and 18 Historical Collections and Curator of Sculptures at 19 Brookgreen Gardens where she directs acquisition, 20 documentation, exhibition, and conservation of 21 Brookgreen's art, history, library, and archives 22 collections. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 13 1 The activity of the Carroll A. Campell, 2 Jr., Center for American Sculpture at Brookgreen 3 Gardens, and the Brookgreen Medallic Arts Program. 4 Robin has received several awards over the years, 5 including the National Sculpture Society's Medal of 6 Honor in recognition for her work. 7 CCAC, Robin was extremely committed to the work of 8 this Committee. 9 As a member of the Specifically, she served on the Working 10 Group Subcommittee in fiscal years 2021 and 2022, to 11 consider theme ideas and provide recommendations back 12 to the full Committee, and also the recent Liberty and 13 Britannia Working Group. 14 was March 1, 2023. Ms. Salmon's last meeting 15 And today we're honoring her for her 16 service to the CCAC, the Mint and the Department of 17 Treasury, presenting her with the Citizens Coinage 18 Advisory Committee for Public Service Award. 19 The Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee 20 Public Service Award recognizes the contribution of 21 the member of the CCAC who honorably served the public 22 interest by advising the Secretary of the Treasury on www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 14 1 theme and design proposals related to circulating 2 coinage, bullion coinage, numismatic coinage, 3 Congressional Gold Medals, and National Medals 4 produced by the United States Mint. 5 The award contains a framed 6 certification and two bronze medals, a three-inch 7 Alexander Hamilton Secretary Medal, and a three-inch 8 bronze or silver medal reviewed by the CCAC typically 9 during the member's service. 10 11 Ms. Salmon asked to have the 2022 American Liberty Silver Medal. I'm pleased to present the CCAC Public 12 Service Award to Robin Salmon. 13 consistently provided inspired and thoughtful input to 14 the development of numerous United States coins and 15 medals and is highly regard by her colleagues and 16 respected for her opinions and insight. 17 Ms. Salmon Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in 18 thanking and congratulating Robin for her service to 19 the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee. 20 I would like to turn it over to you if you have any 21 comments you would like to make. 22 MS. WARREN: And, Robin, Robin, make sure if you're www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 15 1 in the room turn on your mic. 2 now. It's turned off right Perfect. 3 MS. SALMON: All right. Thank you so 4 much. In the beginning I thought I knew what the 5 Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee did, but I found 6 out that there are worlds and worlds of things beyond 7 what I thought I knew. 8 9 This Committee has been a great joy, a great learning experience, and I am so happy to have 10 met so many distinguished people in the field of 11 numismatics, that of our coin design history, the list 12 goes on and on. 13 And I treasure your friendship. I 14 appreciate all of the wonderful times we shared, and I 15 thank you again for this great honor. 16 to continuing the friendships through the years, and 17 if there's anything that I can ever do to help at any 18 time, please don't hesitate to call on me. 19 I look forward I also want to put it on the record 20 that everyone has a standing invitation to visit 21 Brookgreen Gardens. 22 for you. We will roll out the red carpet Thank you so much. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 16 1 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Robin. 2 I know that I, and the rest of my colleagues miss you, 3 and really wish that you could have been here in 4 person with us today. 5 I'm confident that I speak for the CCAC 6 that we are all so happy that you joined us virtually 7 anyway, and to see you being honored for your service 8 on this Committee. 9 on that offer and come visit you at Brookgreen Gardens 10 And I will certainly take you up someday soon, so. 11 All right. So moving on to the first 12 portfolio to be reviewed today. This is the obverse 13 and reverse candidate designs for the United States 14 Marine Corps 250th Anniversary Commemorative Coin 15 Program. 16 authorized by Public Law 118-10. The Commemorative Coin Program was 17 April Stafford and Megan Sullivan will 18 present the obverse and reverse design candidates for 19 the United States Marine Corps 250th Anniversary 20 Commemorative Coin Program. 21 22 MS. STAFFORD: April? Thank you. For some background on this program, the United States Marines www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 17 1 Corps serves as the nation's premier crisis response 2 force focusing on rapid, expeditionary deployment of 3 air and ground units from the sea, for a wide variety 4 of missions, from humanitarian assistance to major 5 combat operations. 6 The Marine Corps traces its origins to 7 November 10, 1775 in Philadelphia, when the Second 8 Continental Congress resolved to raise two battalions 9 of Marines. 10 11 In 2025, the Marine Corps will celebrate its 250th Anniversary. Following the end of the Revolutionary 12 War, the Continental Marines, along with the 13 Continental Navy, went out of existence, but the 14 United States Marine Corps was reestablished on a 15 permanent basis in 1798, and took part in many 16 operations against the Barbary pirates on the shores 17 of Tripoli in North Africa. 18 Marines took part in numerous naval 19 operations during the War in 1812, and in the 20 following years, protecting American interests around 21 the world, and fought bravely during the Mexican War, 22 all the ways to the Halls of Montezuma in Mexico City. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 18 1 They served during the Civil War, the 2 Spanish American War, the Philippine Insurrection, the 3 Boxer Rebellion, and in numerous other places when 4 their nation called. 5 Corps distinguished itself on the battlefields of 6 France, including at Belleau Wood and in the final 7 Meuse-Argonne offensive. 8 9 During World War I, the Marine Marine Corps leaders anticipated the challenges of the next war, and innovative techniques 10 and equipment that allowed Fleet Marine Forces to 11 prevail in the savage amphibious assaults of World War 12 II, necessary to cross the Pacific. 13 Most notable was the capture of the 14 volcanic island of Iwo Jima, and the iconic flag 15 raising that came to symbolize American determination 16 in that war and ever since. 17 Korea and in Vietnam, leaning on their small wars 18 heritage to focus on winning hearts and minds in the 19 villages, while also fighting regular enemy forces in 20 the jungles. 21 22 Marines fought bravely in Marines fought with honor in major combat alongside the U.S. Army in Iraq in 1991, and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 19 1 again in 2003, and is part of the sustained 2 counterinsurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan in the 3 years that followed. 4 important tool for U.S. foreign policy because of its 5 ability to rapidly respond on short notice to crisis 6 that demand a wide range of mission in peace and war. 7 Its excellence in these many roles has 8 earned the reputation that there is no better friend, 9 no worse enemy than a United States Marine. The Marine Corps remains an The 10 Marine Corps prides itself on being the "First to 11 Fight". 12 people, brave men and women who choose to put service 13 above self. The Marine Corps greatest asset is its 14 It's said that being a Marine is more 15 than a job, it's a vocation or a calling. 16 Corps values are "Honor, Courage and Commitment," and 17 the official emblem, the "Eagle, Globe, and Anchor" 18 includes a ribbon with the phrase "Semper Fidelis," 19 meaning "Always Faithful." 20 The Marine This emphasis on tradition, history and 21 culture is critical to the continued success of the 22 Marine Corps. Designs for this program shall be www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 20 1 emblematic of the 250th Anniversary of the United 2 States Marine Corps. 3 In developing its candidate designs, 4 the Mint, working with the Marine Corps Heritage 5 Foundation, and we are fortunate to have with us today 6 Retired United States Marine Corps Major General James 7 Lukeman, and President and CEO of the Marine Corps 8 Heritage Foundation, and Jennifer Vanderveld, COO of 9 the Marine Corps Heritage Foundation, and our liaison 10 for this program. 11 12 Major General, Ms. Vanderveld, would you like to say a few words? 13 MAJOR GENERAL LUKEMAN: Thanks, April, 14 that was awesome. 15 when you're talking about the Marine Corps story. 16 That was great. 17 everybody for letting us come here today and talk to 18 the CCAC. 19 excited about the opportunity for this commemorative 20 coin set in 2025 for the Marine Corps, so thanks. 21 Thanks for that. 22 I mean I'm getting all choked up Good job. Thank you. Thanks for what you do. Thank you We're really Like I said, I'm General Lukeman. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 21 1 retired four years ago from the Marine Corps. 2 then was fortunate enough to be brought into the 3 Marine Corps Heritage Foundation, which is a nonprofit 4 that I lead now. 5 She's been there for gosh, close to 20, you know, 18, 6 19 years now, I believe so, so she's the brain trust 7 for the organization. 8 And Ms. Jennifer Vanderveld is our COO. What we do at the Marine Corps Heritage 9 Foundation, our mission is to preserve and share the 10 history, tradition, and culture of the Marine Corps, 11 and educate all Americans in what's best about the 12 Marine Corps. 13 history, tradition, and culture. 14 So that's our job is to preserve the And as you know, Marines are a little 15 fanatical about our history. 16 other service, we care about where we came from, and 17 celebrate that. 18 of the Marine Corps Heritage Foundation to date has 19 been to raise the money and build the National Museum 20 of the Marine Corps. 21 22 I think more so than any Probably the biggest accomplishment Has anybody here been to the National Museum of the Marine Corps yet? So it's about 45 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 22 1 minutes south of here, just outside of Quantico. 2 I f you go down 95 you'll see the 3 building off to the side, it's this tall, glass and 4 steel structure with a spire, that 6,000 people drive 5 by it and they don't know what it is. 6 a church or something, but it's the National Museum of 7 the Marine Corps. 8 9 They think it's And so that was the Foundation raised the money, built that building, and still to this day 10 it takes care of the museum, continues to improve, and 11 that's our job is to continue to support the 12 preservation of Marine Corps history. 13 supporting the history division, and The President's 14 Own Marine Corps Band, and some other programs as 15 well. 16 We do that by The proceeds we get from this 17 commemorative coin set will go to that mission. 18 in 2005 the Mint minted a 230th Anniversary of the 19 Marine Corps coin, and those proceeds had a big part 20 in raising the money to actually build the National 21 Museum of the Marine Corps, so thank you for that as 22 well. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Back Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 23 1 As was mentioned, what April didn't say 2 about the Marine Corps back in 1775 when the 3 Continental Congress decided to raise two battalions 4 of Marines was that the first Commandant of the Marine 5 Corps, Captain Samuel Nicholas, was charged with 6 raising these two battalions of Marines. 7 So he went to the bar in Philadelphia, 8 the Tun Tavern, and invited Marines to come to the 9 bar, and that were not Marines, invited people to come 10 to the bar and enlisted them in the Marine Corps. So 11 we're very proud that the Marine Corps was born in a 12 bar. 13 And to this day the museum restaurant 14 in our museum is called Tun Tavern, which is the bar 15 the Marine Corps was born, so we're very proud of 16 that. 17 responded to every crisis for the country, as said 18 from the "Shores of Tripoli to the Halls of 19 Montezuma," and beyond, and continue to do that for 20 the next 250 years. 21 22 And for 250 years now the Marine Corps has This coin set is an opportunity for all Americans to be able to recognize and honor what the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 24 1 Marine Corps has done for the country for 250 years. 2 It's an opportunity for us to make every Marine proud 3 of their service to this country, and we're excited 4 about it. 5 6 April, is it time now to talk about our preferences as well? 7 8 MS. STAFFORD: Yes, sir. If you wouldn't mind. 9 MAJOR GENERAL LUKEMAN: Great. 10 There they are. 11 the coin. 12 The image is a Color Guard of the Marine Corps, that's 13 what we called it that, and so it's two Marines with 14 rifles on the outside, and then carrying the American 15 flag and the Marine Corps colors. 16 Good. Okay. So these are preferences for We'll talk about the gold obverse first. And this image to us represents that 17 connection of the Marine Corps to our country, and 18 their dress blue uniform, which is an iconic uniform, 19 and people recognize it immediately and associate it 20 with the Marine Corps. 21 streamers on it that represent they were given to 22 every battle and skirmish the Marine Corps has fought The Marine Corps colors have www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 25 1 in its history. 2 So there are hundreds of awards on the 3 streamers that are on this set of Marine Corps colors, 4 and it talks to that 250-year history. 5 obverse preference is the flag raising on Iwo Jima. 6 And it was mentioned before how iconic the photo that 7 Joe Rosenthal took on February 23, 1945 is -- was. 8 9 The silver But it's hard to imagine the impact it had on the country at the time. We're four years into 10 World War II. 11 point, and that image -- I get choked up just talking 12 about it, that image of the Marines raising the flag 13 gave hope to the country that we're going to win this 14 war. 15 It's not certain the outcome at this And ever since then Marines have looked 16 back on that image as this is who we are. We stand on 17 the shoulders of these folks that overcame adversity 18 and successfully defeated Japan in this battle, and 19 that's the image of that. 20 of the museum as you drive down the road and you see 21 the spire that sticks up, was designed to invoke the 22 flag raising on Iwo Jima, so the building itself is So much so, that the design www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 26 1 2 that image. And anybody who sees that image that's 3 also depicted at the War Memorial here in Arlington, 4 instantly recognizes that's the Marine Corps, and 5 that's what we stand for. 6 image is two Marines, one from 1775 and one from 2025. 7 On the clad obverse, the And for this, it kind of invokes the 8 mantra that every Marine is a rifleman. So you see a 9 rifleman from 1775, a rifleman from 2025, and there's 10 no difference, that the gear changes over the years, 11 but the Marine hasn't changed, and it talks to that 12 250-year history. 13 So the story that I think we depict 14 through these three coins is one of connection to 15 country, connection to what a Marine stands for, for 16 250 years, and what the Marine Corps has -- and who we 17 are in the Marines. 18 The reverse is the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor. 19 the emblem of the Marine Corps since 1868. 20 The obverse reverse, I'm sorry. That's And it was described before, everyone 21 again as soon as you see that image you recognize it's 22 a Marine Corps image. "The Few, The Proud," at the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 27 1 bottom of the coin design just talks to our elite 2 force. 3 services, with the exception of the Space Force now, 4 who's now smaller than us. We've always been the smallest of the 5 But we were the smallest of the 6 services for 250 years, and it's always been a 7 challenge to become a Marine, and so we talk about us 8 being the "Few, the Proud, the Marines." 9 I'm happy to answer questions as we go 10 through the designs, and thank you again. Like I 11 said, we couldn't be more excited than to be able to 12 do this program in 2025 for Marines and for Americans 13 everywhere. Thank you. 14 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 15 before I turn it back over to April, I do want to 16 thank you for that very enthusiastic and heartfelt 17 education. 18 MAJOR GENERAL LUKEMAN: 19 passionate. 20 a great job on that. 21 22 Major General, We're a little It just kind of gets to you, and you did To tell you the truth. MS. STAFFORD: Megan, those were her words. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 28 1 2 MAJOR GENERAL LUKEMAN: Yeah. It's amazing, thank you. 3 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 4 MS. STAFFORD: All yours. All right. So we are 5 going to move through all of the portfolios stopping 6 on the preferences. 7 deliberations. 8 coins are "LIBERTY," "IN GOD WE TRUST, 2025," "UNITED 9 STATES OF AMERICA," "E PLURIBUS UNUM," and of course 10 And then we'll begin The required inscriptions on these the denomination. 11 So starting with the gold obverses. 12 have 2, 3, 4, 5, 5A, 6, 7, 8, and 9. 13 presents a Marine Corps Color Guard carrying the 14 American flag and the Marine Corps flag. 15 is the preferred design for the gold obverse of our 16 liaisons, and there would be one requested change. 17 We This design This again It would be to make at least one a 18 woman Marine to be represented in the color guard. 19 Moving on to the gold reverses. 20 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8. 21 obverses. 22 5, 5A, 5B. We have reverse 1, 2, Moving on to the silver We have silver obverse 1, 2, 3, 3A, 4, 4A, This design presents a modern Marine in www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 29 1 the foreground with a Continental Marine in the 2 background. 3 The additional inscriptions are, "250 4 YEARS OF HONOR, COURAGE and COMMITMENT," "USMC," and 5 "1775," as well as of course "2025." 6 again is the preferred clad obverse of our liaisons. 7 Obverse 6, 7, 7A, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14. 8 9 This design Moving on to the silver reverses. have silver reverse 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. We This design 10 displays the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor, the official 11 emblem of the United States Marine Corps, with the 12 additional inscription, "FEW, THE PROUD." 13 silver reverse 5 is the preferred common reverse of 14 our liaisons for all three coins, with of course a 15 required denomination change. 16 and 11. 17 Again, the Reverse 6, 7, 9, 9, 10, Moving on to the clad obverses. We 18 have clad obverse 1, 3 -- this design spotlights the 19 flag raising at Iwo Jima. 20 include "1775" and "Marines." 21 is the preferred design for the silver obverse by our 22 liaisons with a request to add some more detail into Additional inscriptions Again, clad obverse 3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 30 1 the main imagery. 2 Obverse 5, 6, 7, 7A, 8, 9. Moving on 3 to the clad reverses we have reverse 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 4 7, 8, and 9. 5 candidate designs. 6 And Mr. Chairman, that concludes the CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 7 you very much, April. 8 liaisons. 9 Jima, could elaborate on that? 10 All right. Thank I do have one question for our The request to add more detail to the Iwo MS. STAFFORD: Yes. If I could just 11 introduce that a little. 12 acknowledged that it's not necessary, something that 13 is going to be an incredible difference on the actual 14 coin itself, but it is something that we can add into 15 the line art to ensure that it faithfully represents 16 the men. 17 In conversation it's Correct? MAJOR GENERAL LUKEMAN: Yeah. April 18 got it right, it's just some small details to -- just 19 a little more detail. 20 can we? 21 to the uniforms to make it more clear, and in that 22 sense, it was a small detail change the way April When the first image came, what Can we make it a little more, add something www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 31 1 described it. 2 3 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Thank you very much. 4 MAJOR GENERAL LUKEMAN: Thank you. 5 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 6 liaisons to select obverse designs from different 7 categories is certainly something that we have done 8 before, so you know, we can do that, but I just want 9 to underscore that before we begin deliberation. 10 So before we begin, are there any The request by our 11 technical or legal questions from the Committee about 12 this program? Kellen, I see your hand is raised. 13 MR. HOARD: 14 MR. TATE: 15 MR. HOARD: 16 go. This is Kellen Hoard. 17 liaisons if it's okay? Yeah. I have question. Can you use the mic? Yeah. Okay. Oh. There we I have a question for the 18 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 19 MR. HOARD: Sure. I wonder, you know, there 20 are I think 12 different Iwo Jima obverses, and 23 21 different reverses, which are, you know, very similar. 22 Why these two? Why this example of this is the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 32 1 reverse? 2 MAJOR GENERAL LUKEMAN: Yeah. No. 3 Thank you for that. 4 work to create all of these designs for the Marine 5 Corps, it's amazing. 6 of looking through them all and going oh my gosh, 7 which ones do we prefer. 8 9 And the designers did incredible And so we had the same challenge This image of the flag raising on Iwo Jima, some of the reasons we preferred it was it 10 includes the entire flag and the staff, as opposed to 11 a piece of it. 12 portions of the flag raising, but not the entire one. 13 So this to us was the most recognizable image of the 14 flag raising on Iwo Jima from our perspective. 15 And several of the designs showed On the eagle, globe, and anchor, 16 really, it was a matter of they were all a little 17 different style, you know because their block is 18 always the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor, but they're just 19 different stylized versions of it. 20 Corps has used some of those in other things, in 21 recruiting ads and other stuff, some of the different 22 types of Eagle, Globe, and Anchors have been used. And the Marine www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 33 1 The one we chose, which seemed to be 2 for us the most traditional, and the one that 3 everybody I think it was most recognizable as that's 4 the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor that we liked. 5 "the Few, the Proud," was the only change in verbiage 6 on that one, so that would be on each coin then on the 7 backs of each coin. 8 9 And then That's why we chose the one we did. But you're right, the images as you look through them, 10 you're like okay, what about that one, or that one, 11 and it was just a preference for us. 12 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 13 MR. CAPOZZOLA: That's it. Chris Capozzola? This is Chris 14 Capozzola. 15 I think the Committee and anyone else that is 16 listening, or the record, could benefit from a little 17 education about some of the phrases and their status 18 in the Marine history, and also that they're official 19 or unofficial. 20 I also have a question for the liaisons. So then just to read out five that 21 appear that are not part of the legal requirements for 22 the coin. "Semper Fidelis," "Honor, Courage, and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 34 1 Commitment," "Land, Sea, Air," "the Few, the Proud," 2 and "First to Fight." 3 choices among those, and do any have the formal legal 4 status versus you know, just a traditional 5 perspective? 6 phrases? 7 So you know, and you have made What should we know as we think of those MAJOR GENERAL LUKEMAN: Yeah. Great question. 8 Thank you for that. So "Semper Fidelis" is the 9 official motto of the Marine Corps, "Always Faithful." 10 So that is official, and that's what the Marine Corps 11 uses. 12 as the core values of the Marine Corps, so that's 13 official as well, "Honor, Courage and Commitment" are 14 official. 15 "Honor, Courage and Commitment" are recognized The other three, "the Few, the Proud," 16 "First to Fight," and what was the other one? 17 "Land, Sea, Air," are more descriptions of the Marine 18 Corps that have been used in various means from a 19 bumper sticker to a saying. 20 Oh, There was a book called "First to 21 Fight," and it kind of describes what the Marine Corps 22 is. Always the first in. "The Few, the Proud," and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 35 1 the least small force, and I keep forgetting the third 2 one. 3 MS. STAFFORD: "Land, Sea, Air." 4 MAJOR GENERAL LUKEMAN: "Land, Sea, 5 Air." We are a force that has all three elements, and 6 each element comes from the sea, so that's our 7 descriptions, so those are not official. 8 Fidelis," "Honor, Courage," and the other three are 9 more descriptions that are common to the Marine Corps. 10 11 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: much. 14 Thank you very John? 12 13 "Semper MR. TATE: John, can you use the microphone? MR. SAUNDERS: Hi. John Saunders here. 15 I noticed there was a bulldog in some of the designs, 16 and you know, it's not surprising to associate a 17 bulldog with the Marines, but I'm wondering if it's an 18 official mascot, or what the story is on the bulldog? 19 MAJOR GENERAL LUKEMAN: So the bulldog 20 is the official mascot of the Marine Corps. 21 think the 16th or 17th is the current bulldog mascot, 22 lives at Marine Barracks 8th and I just down the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Chesty, I Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 36 1 street and comes out at parades and things. 2 bulldog was back in 1920 when Smedley Butler brought 3 Sergeant Jiggs, was the name of that bulldog, and 4 dressed him up in a Marine Corps outfit, and he used 5 to bring it to events down there. 6 The first Ever since then the bulldog has been 7 kind of the unofficial mascot of the Marine Corps. 8 you have a bulldog, an English Bulldog is the mascot, 9 and that's where the bulldogs came from. 10 MR. SAUNDERS: 11 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 12 Thank you. Thank you. Harcourt, did you have your hand up? 13 DR. FULLER: 14 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 15 So I don't. Art, I believe Art? 16 MR. BERNSTEIN: No I just -- 17 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 18 MR. SCARINCI: Okay. Donald? So I have a question. 19 have a question for the liaisons, and I know you're 20 prepared for this. 21 facts by the way if -- along the way. 22 by James Bradley comes out. But so, and please correct my 2000, the book 2005 the U.S. Mint www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 37 1 produces the Anniversary coin, commemorating the 230th 2 Anniversary of the Marine Corps. 3 2006 after the coin is produced, the 4 movie based on the book comes out, and you know, 5 presents a more controversial message involving the 6 photograph of that coin was -- the 2005 coin was based 7 on. 8 acknowledged. 2016 John Bradley has misidentified, and that's 9 2019 Rene Gagnon is misidentified, and 10 that's acknowledged. 11 while it is certainly an iconic image, there's no 12 question that the image itself and the history, how 13 it's taken, is steeped in some controversy. 14 controversy is not a bad thing, you know, controversy 15 creates discussion. 16 awareness. 17 There's no question right, that And Discussion creates attention and So it's not that controversy is a bad 18 thing, but I'd really think you're going to need to 19 persuade us, and I'm anxious to hear your 20 persuasiveness as to why would we restrike a coin that 21 was minted in 2005? 22 are so many other good designs here to choose from? Why would we do that when there www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 38 1 MAJOR GENERAL LUKEMAN: 2 that. 3 right on all those things, that the most interesting 4 part of it was the misidentification of two of the 5 original flag raisers, where you wonder how could it 6 be that for gosh, 70 years or so, nobody came forward 7 and said that wasn't me in that picture, or that was 8 me in that picture? 9 So first on the facts. Thank you for I think you've got them And it kind of lends to I think the way 10 Marines think about the Marines in that image. 11 it right now, by the way, by examining all the 12 photographs and film of the whole event and looking 13 through the six Marines that are currently identified 14 as the flag raisers in that photo are correct, or at 15 least we think so, but we think that's correct. 16 We got But they're anonymous to most Marines. 17 I mean I know the names, but when you look at that 18 picture, you know, the faces are visible, and so it 19 can represent every Marine, or any Marine, and it's 20 the image just stands for what Marines learned, and no 21 Marine has ever failed at anything as long as the 22 Marine Corps has been around, and I'm not about to be www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 39 1 the first. 2 When a Marine goes to boot camp, he's 3 transformed. 4 transformed into a Marine. 5 people that have gone before, in the battles that have 6 gone before, and that seed of pride that's planted in 7 every recruit stays there, which is why, you know, 8 once a Marine always a Marine, is really a true thing. 9 When a civilian goes to boot camp, he's They learn about all the But once you become a Marine you never 10 -- that never leaves you, whether you serve four years 11 or 40 years, it doesn't change. 12 restriking or having the same image on our coin in 13 2025 that was on the coin in 2005. 14 that as well. The question about We thought about 15 And to Marines, that image of the flag 16 raising on Iwo Jima is the -- the iconic image of the 17 Marine Corps, of all of them. 18 iconic image is our preference was to have it, and 19 they're all great images of the Marine Corps, the 20 designs. 21 22 We wanted to have They all show different things. The drill instructor yelling, and those kinds of things, they all show different aspects of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 40 1 it. But the flag raising is special. 2 only 600,000 people have an opportunity to have one of 3 those from 2000, so at least 330 million Americans 4 that have an opportunity to get a coin with the flag 5 raising on it in 2025. 6 And right now So I don't see it as a restriking of 7 that coin. 8 coin with that image on it that many Americans don't 9 have today. 10 I see it as another opportunity to have a MR. SCARINCI: So let's just say you 11 don't successfully persuade us, and what -- do you 12 have another, do you have any alternative preference 13 if we didn't go with this design, do you have a fourth 14 favorite obverse design? 15 MAJOR GENERAL LUKEMAN: No I don't 16 right now. 17 discussion today, that may come up with something that 18 we've haven't with a fourth. 19 We didn't go that far on the three that we -- on the 20 coins, the three we thought were the best to bring 21 forward for the country, and didn't have a fourth. 22 And if this is where we go in the I didn't go that far. So I don't have one now, but I do look www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 41 1 forward to the discussion on these designs because 2 there's, like you said, there's a lot of great ones 3 out there. 4 MR. SCARINCI: Listen, it's a great 5 strategy not to tell us what your fourth choice is, so 6 that we can go right into it. 7 MAJOR GENERAL LUKEMAN: 8 MR. SCARINCI: 9 10 13 So we will wait for the discussion, and then I'm sure we're going to press you for more. 11 12 Yeah. So okay, thank you. MAJOR GENERAL LUKEMAN: Thank you very much. MR. SCARINCI: You also did -- I just 14 want to tell you your organization did a fabulous job 15 in the sales in 2005. 16 participating, and that's something, you know, we see 17 very very often people come, you know. You were actively 18 I always ask people, you know, when 19 they go through the expensive, grueling process of 20 getting a commemorative coin passed by Congress and 21 signed by the President, I always ask them, you know, 22 and then they come to us with, you know, portraits, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 42 1 portrait designs, or designs that are just not 2 appealing, you know. 3 And I always ask them was your purpose 4 of doing all that work to get a coin that commemorates 5 your organization, or is your purpose to raise money? 6 Because the two things are mutually exclusive; right? 7 Really, it's proven when you look at the Red Book and 8 you look at the prices, and you look at the mintages, 9 it's proven that attractive, you know, compelling 10 11 designs sell. And the portrait coins, you know, while 12 they might be nice to be to the issuing organization, 13 they just don't sell, and they end up not making a 14 terrible amount of money from it. 15 commemorative coin process is really to help. And you know, the 16 You know, it's as much of a collector 17 interest as it is to help the organization, and give 18 you a product to sell in your shops and in your museum 19 stores, and you know, people who visit like to buy 20 things, and why buy junk when you can buy a United 21 States coin in your store? 22 So you did a great job the first time, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 43 1 and know you will do a brilliant job, you know, you're 2 going to make money, you can. 3 all very mindful of that, and that's why your 4 recommendation definitely carries weight. 5 want you think as you hear the discussion, that it 6 doesn't. 7 8 So that, I think we're I don't It's acknowledged that it's very respected. 9 MAJOR GENERAL LUKEMAN: Thank you for 10 that. 11 commemorate 250 years of the Marine Corps. 12 the proceeds from it is secondary. 13 into what we do at the Foundation, but most 14 importantly thing is it's going to commemorate 250 15 years of the Marine Corps. 16 17 18 And the most important thing for us is to CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: you. Earning You know, go back All right. Thank Dennis, I see your hand is raised. MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 19 Thank you, Ms. Vanderveld, and General Lukeman, my 20 brother, Michael J. Tucker, sends regards. 21 know each other, but you're both Marines. 22 from his active service in 1980, and I'm very careful www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 You don't He retired Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 44 1 when I describe that because I know that I'm not 2 supposed to say that he's a former Marine. 3 And as you mentioned, once a Marine, 4 always a Marine. 5 the State Department since. 6 a numismatist as well. 7 collecting. 8 was going into kindergarten, so he's older. 9 But he's been in law enforcement in He and I have -- and he's He actually got me into coin When he was going into the Marine Crops I But I look up to him, and he gave me my 10 first Buffalo nickel. 11 discussions about this program, and he told me about 12 some of the things that every Marine learns in boot 13 camp. 14 So he and I had had some He talked about Tun Tavern. He also 15 talked about Chesty Puller, and I wonder if you could 16 maybe talk a little bit about some of those -- if you 17 think it's important or relevant to this discussion, 18 why were some of those historical figures and places 19 not included? 20 But I think you've really done a good 21 job explaining the connection to country tradition, 22 history, and honor. I like the choices that you've www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 45 1 made, but since we're having this conversation, this 2 might be the time. 3 Thank you. MAJOR GENERAL LUKEMAN: Yeah. Thank 4 you. Lots of heroes the Marine Corps celebrates. 5 Chesty Puller being one of the most decorated Marines. 6 He served in World War II, Korea, and Vietnam. 7 Others, John Lejeune, some people call him the 8 greatest Marine of all time, and so they're 9 recognizable faces that Marines would show. 10 What we wanted to portray was the 11 Marine Corps is not about one person. 12 Marines. 13 images, so we chose images that were not personal, not 14 somebody you would know, but every Marine could be 15 that Marine, is why we -- that's what we were going 16 forward on. 17 It's about And anybody can see themselves in these Similar the locations. Tun Tavern is, 18 you know, it got torn down in the late 1700's, so it's 19 not really clear what it looked like back in the day, 20 but we have images of what we think it looked like, 21 but that's what we were going for. 22 MR. TUCKER: Thank you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 46 1 2 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: much. Thank you very Go ahead. 3 MR. SCARINCI: It's actually a question 4 for our historian. 5 you've had a chance to look at the uniform in the 6 recommendation of the obverse 5B, and I was just 7 curious if you had, you know, any questions for the 8 liaisons? 9 I just wanted -- I assume that Is this an authentic, you know, would 10 this have been the first Marine uniform? 11 commemorating 250 years, so having the proper 12 representation of the first Marine in uniform I think 13 is an important component. 14 If you have an option, you should switch it back to 15 the liaison to answer. 16 to the liaison? It needs to be depicted. Do you want to switch it back 17 MR. CAPOZZOLA: 18 MR. SCARINCI: 19 MAJOR GENERAL LUKEMAN: 20 MR. SCARINCI: 21 22 We are I would or mint staff. The first Marines. Right. Is this uniform the uniform for the first Marines? MAJOR GENERAL LUKEMAN: www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Yes, is the Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 47 1 answer to that question. 2 part of the Marine Corps University. 3 History Division as well as the museum, tracks all 4 these things back to the past, and there's a -- if you 5 go on down to the Pentagon, on the corridor where the 6 Commodore of the Marine Corps office is, there's a 7 statue at the end of the corridor, and it has two 8 Marines. 9 History Division, which is a We support One dressed like this that 1775 Marine 10 right there, and one dressed in today's Marine Corps 11 gear, which changes over the years to be accurate. 12 But the one from 1775 is that one. 13 accurate depiction of what Marines wore in the 14 Revolutionary War. 15 MR. SCARINCI: 16 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: That is an Thank you very much. Thank you very 17 much. 18 Again, I want to thank Major General Lukeman for all 19 of the backgrounds and insight into the selection. 20 think it will really help us with the discussion here. 21 22 Are there any other questions? All right. I And with that, I would like to remind our members to please try to keep your comments to www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 48 1 five minutes or less, and to identify yourself for the 2 record before speaking. 3 who is coming to us virtually. 4 Let's begin with Mike Moran, MR. MORAN: Mike? I'm here. I was paging 5 through some of the stuff. 6 hit everything across gold, silver and clad? 7 8 Peter, do you want me to CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Yeah. Let's try to do that. 9 MR. MORAN: Okay. I have too many 10 screens going here. 11 skip the reverses with one exception because I think 12 the Marine Corps recommendation of the silver 05 13 reverse is fine by me, and if they want that across 14 all three coins, fine by me again. 15 On the gold, and I'm going to So that said, on the five dollar, I 16 really don't think we need to have Iwo Jima on there 17 because it's too small. 18 the flags. 19 irrelevant. 20 I understand your choice of I would submit to them that it's Whether the figures are diverse or not, 21 they are below the flag, so you're not going to be 22 able to see them. Hey, if it were me doing the gold www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 49 1 design, I would choose 06. 2 a coin the size of a nickel, and sorry. 3 That will show up well on Moving to the silver. I personally 4 like the -- let me go back. 5 where did I see it, you were on the slides, and I have 6 a lot of pages. 7 8 On the gold, I liked -- You can see it on the gold. CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Mike, you're still with us? 9 MR. MORAN: I'm still there. 10 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 11 MR. MORAN: I'm trying to find the damn 12 thing. 13 4. 14 chose the one he did for the Iwo Jima, maybe because 15 of the fact that you don't see the entire flag and 16 staff. 17 Hold on. Okay. If I were to choose, I would choose And I understand why probably the Major General But I really like this one. I think 18 the way that the inscriptions across there, and as a 19 result that's the one we're not going to choose, and I 20 think it belongs on the silver dollar. 21 22 As for the clad, I'm fine with I think your choice was 5B, the silver which shows the two www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 50 1 riflemen in the original uniform and the uniform of 2 today. 3 I also feel like 6 was a good one on the silver dollar 4 side, and it came across as your duty, honor and 5 courage, those images. 6 I'm good with that. And I believe let's see, So that is a bit jumbled up, but that's 7 what you get when you give me all three at once. 8 good. 9 10 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: you very much, Mike. 11 All right. I'm Thank Art Bernstein if you would? MR. BERNSTEIN: Thank you Chair. This 12 is Arthur Bernstein. 13 would support the recommendations of the liaisons. 14 would just comment on the silver obverse, excuse me, 15 the clad obverse preference, which the liaisons chose 16 5B. 17 I just appreciate the additional detail on the ship 18 and helicopter, but in general I'm with the liaisons 19 on their preferences. 20 21 22 I don't have a lot of say. I I And I was also attracted to a cousin of that, 5. Thank you. CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: you very much, Art. All right. Thank Dr. Harcourt Fuller? DR. FULLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 51 1 This is Harcourt Fuller. Thank you, Major General 2 Lukeman, and all the other liaisons. 3 your service to this great country. 4 and as someone who has worked in museums as well, I 5 want to congratulate you on using coins to educate the 6 public. Thank you for As a historian, It's very important. 7 And I want to congratulate you on the 8 250th Anniversary of the United States Marine Corps. 9 Symbols matter, and so I want to support your choices 10 of using symbols that represent everyone where every 11 potential Marine can see themselves in particular 12 images, and so I'll support all of your 13 recommendations. 14 I did want to bring attention however, 15 to gold obverse 6, I think Mike also pointed that one 16 out. 17 think it will coin well, you know, mint well. 18 I just think it's a very beautiful coin. I And there are several others like that, 19 that really show great detail. However, again I do 20 agree with the idea that we want to represent. 21 want general depictions, so that everyone can see 22 themselves as part of the Marine Corps, and thanks for www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 They Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 52 1 your service to this great country, thank you. 2 3 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: much. Thank you very Dr. Christopher Capozzola please? 4 MR. CAPOZZOLA: All right. Good 5 morning, this is Chris Capozzola, and I, like my 6 colleague Mike Moran, I need to shuffle between some 7 screens here, so thanks to the artists, and to the 8 liaisons for coming up with so many ways of telling 9 the Marines stories. 10 As I was looking through this, I was 11 guided by a couple things. 12 important that this be a commemoration of the 250th 13 anniversary of the Marines, it's not just a generic 14 sort of commemoration of the Marines as a force, and 15 also making sure that it reflects the artistic 16 contributions of the mint designers. 17 I think it's very And that way I actually found myself 18 less attracted to the images of Iwo Jima that were 19 very specifically replications of the Joe Rosenthal 20 photograph. 21 the engravers and the artists have taken that iconic 22 image and made it something that's specific to I wanted to see a way in which sort of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 53 1 American coinage. 2 And so it's a slight differential, but 3 I actually think for the ones that actually didn't 4 have the full flag in part because I thought it was 5 giving me the numismatic artist little space for their 6 creation. 7 support the liaison preferences if it's specific and 8 it goes in this direction. 9 That said, I think I would completely And I think seeing it this way helps me 10 understand them as a series and a set, in a way in 11 which the Iwo Jima image is one of three. 12 looking across the three of them actually does convey 13 the Marines history from 1775 to 2025. 14 just generally say that. 15 And that So I would And let me just say maybe one or two 16 other things, which is I could -- I wanted to draw 17 attention to, one second. 18 the record, I thought the gold reverse 7, which I do 19 not think will message our work for this coin or this 20 series, I just want to reverse 7. 21 22 Just briefly while we're on I just wanted to draw attention to it for its artistic merit, and say that that I love it www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 54 1 based on, you know, some ways which this would be a 2 great outcome for women generally to be able to think 3 about the work along the way. 4 Silver 3 obverse, silver obverse 3 is 5 one that I would like to draw a little bit of 6 attention to. 7 one that I actually was drawn to the most, and again, 8 everyone knows that's Iwo Jima, but it's not just a 9 xerox of the Rosenthal photograph, and it's very All of the Iwo Jima ones, this was the 10 specifically about the Corps and the dates who may not 11 really know it. 12 So for, you know, if we're going to 13 have further discussion, I would draw some attention 14 to that. And I will cede the rest of my time. 15 16 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: much, Chris. Thank you very Annelisa Purdie? 17 MS. PURDIE: Hi. Can everyone hear me? 18 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 19 MS. PURDIE: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, 20 this is Annelisa Purdie. I'm so sorry about the 21 technical issues before, I will be there for a little 22 later. First of all I want to say you thank you so www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 55 1 much for your service, and thank you to all the 2 liaisons who have worked on this medal. 3 something that is important in large part because of a 4 family collection. 5 This is also My uncle was also in the Marines. He 6 served during Vietnam, and I remember after he came 7 home to his children and his grandchildren, niece, and 8 nephews, looking at the Marine Corps guidebook and 9 showing us the contents of his footlocker, and 10 teaching us about his time there, and something that's 11 needed to be today, so it's very exciting about this. 12 And so I will keep it brief and go 13 through the designs that I really am drawn to, and the 14 ones that I like. 15 recommendation for design 9, particularly for the size 16 and representation that this coin is meant to signify. 17 I think that this flag design is beautiful. 18 extremely detailed. 19 So, I also agree with the It's The faces of each of the Marines as 20 well, their detail, and I hope that they have their 21 own specific -- which is important, and keeping in the 22 guide that this is supposed to be representative of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 56 1 the Marine Corps as a whole, and not just one 2 particular person. 3 and all of the elements that come together and are 4 spaced together very well too. 5 I think that this works very well As I move on to 4, the artfulness of 6 the detail that's represented here, and just looking 7 at the way that they Marines are those represented 8 behind the line. 9 for different designs in order to represent the whole But I have to agree to that looking 10 of what the Marine Corps is are important, but there's 11 something about the way that each of these just 12 approach this very, very well. 13 And it's something that, especially 14 with the walls down behind the flag also I also C2. 15 For the obverse I think that my favorite was 14, and 16 once again it's also because of spacing, the way that 17 each of the elements are positioned, and thinking 18 about the way this would look on the coin overall. 19 The shading here, especially the 20 grading is detailed expertly, and I think it 21 represents the globe and the anchor very well, 22 something that it is instantly recognizable to others, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 57 1 and also has that dynamic look over all of the 2 elements. 3 person with all of the recessing and detailed shading 4 here as well. I'm excited to see how this would look in 5 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Okay. And 6 Annalisa if I could just interrupt for a second. 7 you referred to 14, was this -- which 14 was this? 8 Which portfolio? 9 MS. PURDIE: 10 11 It's the obverse. CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Gold, silver or clad? 12 13 When MS. PURDIE: Oh. Sorry. The silver; yes. 14 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Okay. Thank you, 15 thank you, just needed clarification on that. 16 ahead, you know, sorry. 17 MS. PURDIE: Okay. Go So I really 18 appreciate the design and the juxtaposition of this 19 one as well. 20 each of the three Marines are arranged with what they 21 represent. 22 And 12, especially with the way that There's just something about nature 3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 58 1 on coin that's appealing to me, and especially the 2 celebration of the longevity of the Marines, that this 3 really conveys that sense of time, the time that's 4 happening to inspire others as well for going into the 5 Corps and seeing what thing they represent. 6 will end on time. 7 8 Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: you very much Annelisa. 9 And I All right. Thank Donald Scarinci? MR. SCARINCI: So listen, I have a lot 10 of confidence in the organization, and you know, and 11 therefore you know I like these coins. 12 commemorative coins to sell; right? 13 when civil organizations make money because that means 14 a lot of coins were made, and a lot of coins are 15 available in the secondary market for people who want 16 them. 17 I like And I'm delighted And you know, and when they don't sell 18 you know people just lose -- it loses focus and 19 attention on this recipient organization as well, as 20 the market sags. 21 restrike idea, as to whether that's a good thing or a 22 bad thing. And so I'm really torn on the And I go back and forth with myself, and I www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 59 1 say on the one hand, right, sometimes when you do 2 something unconventional, you know, collectors 3 gravitate to that, like errors; right? 4 Collectors love errors; right? They're 5 all collecting the packaging replacements that the 6 Mint has been sending out, so there's a whole market 7 for the error packaging; right? 8 9 So and people like that, collectors collect, and you know, it certainly becomes a talking 10 point, you know. 11 you know, will have some articles about the, you know, 12 a restrike coin. 13 I'm sure Coin World will have a -- And collectors, you know, it might 14 really, you know, create an aftermarket for the 2005 15 coin, so I go back and forth on this, right? 16 don't really know what the right answer is, and I 17 don't see. 18 here, and you are, you know, this is not you, I'd be 19 wanting to talk about some other designs. 20 And I And there are interesting other designs But to keep to my five minutes, the 21 important point that I really -- the important comment 22 at the risk of sounding like Sean Parker in the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 60 1 Facebook movie when he turns to Mark Zuckerberg and 2 says, "Drop the thought," right? 3 scene, and you know, at risk of sounding like him, you 4 know, I'm just wondering you know if you know, the 5 objective of what you're trying to do with the gold 6 coin is clearly flags, right? 7 You know, a great Because you realize the people are 8 going to look like mosquitoes, you know, on the size 9 of the planchet, you're not going to really, the 10 people are like, you know. 11 me, I would drop the people, and I would, you know, 12 just start with the flags. 13 So honestly, if it were Start with the flagpole and the flags 14 and highlight the flags because the people are I think 15 just going to give you gas. 16 going to have, you know, it could go the way of the 17 basketball coin, you know, where we had to have, you 18 know, every conceivable group represented because this 19 is kind of what we do these days. 20 I mean I think you're You know, and you're going to get 21 criticism you know, with it unless you diversify this 22 group. You'll probably get criticism with the coin, www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 61 1 and you know. And you know, the coin itself, the gold 2 coin, they just don't, you know, people are right now, 3 especially people are spending a lot of money on the 4 gold coins. 5 coin, you know, to begin with. So it's not going to be your best seller 6 And it could give you grief if you 7 don't really change the images, even though you're 8 never going to be able to see the faces without, you 9 know, without a five time or a three-time 10 magnification. 11 just drop the people. 12 flag, do the flags. 13 So my recommendation on the gold is Just if you really want the The flags, you know, would make a good, 14 you know, would make, you know, would fill a gold 15 coin, the small size of the gold coin much better. 16 And the alternative to that is what Mike had 17 suggested, is to go with obverse 6, which would make a 18 striking gold coin, right? 19 you go into the gold coin that small size, you really 20 need one compelling image. 21 22 Because the object, when And when you look at the, you know, when you look at the sales figures of a lot of these www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 62 1 things, you know, on the theory that you know, pretty 2 coins sell, others don't, others sell less. 3 having I mean that's a compelling -- that will fill 4 the planchet. 5 You know, That design would fill the planchet. So I would recommend either going, and 6 we can do that by motion if the Committee likes the 7 flag, and likes the idea of killing people, right, you 8 know, we could always do that by motion, you know, 9 which is a simple thing. 10 We could certainly hear from the 11 engraver, but I would want you to think about that, 12 and maybe come back to you with a question before we 13 vote to see how you feel about that; right? 14 Because that would persuade me to give 15 you the flag instead of going -- instead of me, 16 personally going for voting for obverse 6, which would 17 be a prettier, a nicer, a more appealing gold coin, so 18 that's actually I was very concise, so. 19 20 21 22 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Very, thank you. Dennis Tucker? MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. General Lukeman, thank you for your presentation, and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 63 1 this is very helpful. 2 appreciate them, and they have my support. 3 I understand your choices. I Donald, you always bring up interesting 4 ideas. 5 the color guard, and you have the colors, which are 6 the flags, and then you have the guard, which are the 7 people. 8 9 I think, if I'm not mistaken, the concept of So the color guard which is depicted here would not be complete if we didn't have both, and 10 that would be one point. 11 you look at the gold coins, the gold five dollar coins 12 that the United States Mint has made in recent years. 13 A second point would be if For example, the 2019 American Legion 14 five dollar gold, the minute amount of detail on these 15 coins is exquisite, and you can really get a lot of 16 very intricate detail into the small canvas. 17 I'm not saying that we're going to have 18 super detailed portraits, but I do think it's enough 19 to warrant keeping those four figures in the design, 20 and I also think it's important to have that diversity 21 in the female member of the color guard as well. 22 When I reviewed these designs, this www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 64 1 incredible portfolio, one of my first questions was, 2 and I've rethought this, but I just want to give you 3 this background. 4 have three different reverses because we have three 5 different coins. 6 I thought we have an opportunity to So and I felt at first that we're not 7 taking advantage of that opportunity by having a 8 common obverse. 9 and I'm convinced I understand and appreciate what you But your presentation has swayed me, 10 told us, and I think the importance of having "The 11 Few, The Proud" makes sense to me, and I agree with it 12 and support that decision, so thank you, Mr. Chairman. 13 14 15 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: very much. Dennis, thank you John Saunders? MR. SAUNDERS: Hi. John Saunders here. 16 In thinking about the question, Donald, about whether 17 we should repeat an image again or not. 18 are certain images that both from a sales point of 19 view, and for just commemorative things are so iconic 20 that not bad to repeat them. 21 22 I think there I mean the Iwo Jima image was one. a kid I was a stamp collector, as well as a coin www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 As Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 65 1 collector. And there's a three-cent stamp with the 2 Iwo Jima on it, and that was always one of my favorite 3 stamps, one of the first ones I got in my collection 4 of the older things. 5 And I think this image that just cries 6 out to be on there, particularly when we get a three 7 coin set. 8 reason not to repeat the same thing as the gold coin 9 from before, but we have three of them. 10 If we only had one coin maybe there's a We're only putting Iwo Jima on one of the three coins. 11 So I don't really have a problem with 12 that now. 13 and I got shutdown on the buffalo on the coin for the 14 repeat image. 15 the point where I still like the buffalo, but okay. 16 Of course I liked the buffalo yesterday, And I think the buffalo is iconic to So I'm going to support the requested 17 and recommended images, but I also want to point out, 18 and it will be up to our Chairman as to how we do 19 this, I kind of like the idea of scoring the images, 20 even though I'm not voting for them because I want to 21 go with the program. 22 But I think it would be useful to score www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 66 1 the images for feedback to artists and so forth, as 2 well as rather than being we're voting for it to put 3 on the coin. 4 And I also want to give a shoutout for 5 on the gold coin, number 6. 6 I mean that one is the one that struck me when I was 7 looking at it before I heard the recommendation. 8 9 I agree with Mike there. And I still like that one a little bit better than the color guard, but so it's pretty 10 complicated with different reverses for different 11 reverses, but you know using different denominations 12 designs. 13 I'm going to vote with the program as recommended, but 14 I do think that that's a great design. Voting on it would be hard to do that, so 15 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: John, to answer 16 your question, I would welcome a recommendation, or a 17 motion to support the liaisons choices before we score 18 them. 19 have the scores just for the record, and also for the 20 sake of the artists and so forth. 21 finished with the discussion that could be a 22 possibility. We will score nonetheless because we do need to So once we're www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 67 1 2 MR. SAUNDERS: Okay. who else -- but other than yourself. 3 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 4 MR. SAUNDERS: 5 Okay. CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: you. Well, the motion MR. HOARD: Hoard. All right. Thank Kellen? 8 9 We have Kellen. will come later. 6 7 I don't remember Thank you. This is Kellen For me, I think you avoid the problem of the 10 restrike concept, like you said. 11 Jima image should not be on the silver dollar, and you 12 do it on either the clad or the gold. 13 more into that in a second, but I'll just start with 14 the gold to make things kind of easier to track. 15 I agree that the Iwo And I'll get On the gold I'm not usually somebody 16 who has a huge issue with sizing on the gold in a 17 small piece. 18 But I think it's an opportunity to be bold. 19 I look at it as I think detail shows up. All the gold coins that are I think, 20 artistically compelling, but I think take advantage of 21 the size and the medium, are the ones that have a have 22 the striking immediate bold design, and I don't feel www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 68 1 that 9 is quite as compelling and striking as it could 2 be, especially relative to some other ones in the 3 portfolio. 4 I found among the gold, observe 4 5 actually quite striking and bold, something that takes 6 advantage of the size and speaks out to you from that 7 small piece. 8 would appreciate, and I think it doesn't raise a 9 problem with replicating on the silver dollar if you 10 I think it really holds that well, and I do it on the gold five dollar. 11 I think it's a piece that will pop off 12 the five dollar. 13 know the liaisons want to avoid a specific person, but 14 that's one that pops of the five dollar coin. 15 taking advantage of the medium of the coinage and of 16 the gold piece and silver. 17 I also found 6 quite compelling. I That is I'll get to reverses in a little while, 18 but let's go to silver. On silver no one liked this 19 one, but I did. 20 that was a nice one. 21 vote, but I'll give it points, 1A there. 22 combine some pieces with the Iwo Jima image with some I liked 1A quite a bit. I thought I'm not sure it will get my www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 You know, Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 69 1 artistic interest. 2 But again, largely I'm disinclined to 3 go for the Iwo Jima image here because I think there's 4 opportunities. 5 it, again the young person on the Committee, a lot of 6 young people who are interested in knowing about the 7 history of the Marines in a lot of these pieces. 8 They're buying the clad coin, not the silver one. And I'll say that as they addressed 9 And so, if this is the image you really 10 want to emphasize, I would honestly look at putting it 11 on the clad coin because you're going to get a huge 12 base of people who maybe aren't even those passionate 13 collectors, but the general public is going to be 14 going for that one. 15 emphasize if that's the image you want to share. 16 That's the one I would really And so either the 4A in gold or the 3 17 series with the silver, which we should talk about as 18 well, and I think Chris probably mentioned it as well. 19 But that is a way to kind of bring any of those three 20 series if we want to click down, or actually I 21 think -- well, this is silver. 22 MS. STAFFORD: Sorry this is silver. Silver obverse? www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 70 1 MR. HOARD: Silver obverse 3, sorry. 2 Thank you for the clarification. 3 the whole flag in the image, but this is a new way, I 4 think an exciting way to show the image in a way that 5 people haven't seen it before. 6 have seen the image. 7 I know you wanted Most people I think I know I learned about it in school, 8 and my peers did as well. But this is kind of a new 9 dynamic, exciting way as Chris mentioned, to show this 10 image in a way that's unique to the medium as popping 11 and exciting, and I think the clad coins don't get 12 their due with kind of exciting designs like this one 13 that show a different angle vantage point. 14 So I would recommend this one for 15 again, maybe the clad if we're going to go with Iwo 16 Jima on there. 17 that one. 18 another one that really had pops, and if you're going 19 to put that on the clad. 20 public would get behind. 21 22 I was actually quite excited about Also 4 for the silver obverse, again that's It's exciting for what the It's remarkable when they're excited, they get the image, they get the iconography, and you www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 71 1 avoid the replication issue. 2 going to vote for artistic merit why I thought clad 6 3 was just kind of a neat design for clad obverse 6. 4 All right. For clad just I'm not That's a long PDF. Yeah. 5 I just thought that was a neat one, and I wanted to 6 shout that one out, I'll give points to the artist for 7 that one. 8 you know, with the silver you go with one of the 9 alternative designs that's not Iwo Jima. So really where I'd land is that I think, Maybe you go 10 with the one alternative, the clad design through 11 time. 12 Maybe you go with some of the other 13 images, but then Iwo Jima on the gold or the clad, and 14 do a popping design on the gold. 15 has the kind of Marines in the bold lettering, or has 16 the design 6 as well, which really placed the medium. 17 That's the one that And then I think you -- for the 18 reverse I'm fine, you know, with kind of the simple 19 one, but I think on that one you also go -- you get a 20 little bit of flavor in there as well. 21 22 You can stick, I mean on the 2005 coin it was again a very simple plain one. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And I think we Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 72 1 have an opportunity here. 2 you have an opportunity to get, you know, a little 3 more flavorful. Is you look at maybe reverse on the 4 gold, reverse 1. And there's going to be a comment. 5 I'm okay with a comment on there. 6 can add a little bit flavor, it's nothing to crazy. 7 You're 20 years older now, So again, you'll You can work with kind of an artistic 8 style if you want, but that actually allows you to get 9 a little bit more flavor. Also, you know, a little 10 should out for 6. You know, I think people like the 11 dog. 12 thought was interesting, but again, is silver reverse 13 2. For or also speaking of reverses, one that I 14 I think we should be kind of centering 15 kind of more the traditional -- but I think reverse 2 16 shows the breadth of the Marine service, which is 17 difficult to do when it shows it across the many 18 different ways and the unique ways as well, or reverse 19 silver reverse 8 is what I labeled that as well. 20 Again, this is one of them where you 21 still have that globe iconography, but you're getting 22 a little bit bolder. I mean you're popping off the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 73 1 coin, you're creating some of those really common 2 sayings. 3 I'm guessing those won't be represented 4 on the obverse design, everybody seems to like, so 5 that's an opportunity to put it on the reverse there, 6 and still have the iconography you're looking for. 7 Also, the last reverse's icon is in 1. 8 I did like reverse silver, clad reverse 1, again it's 9 one that just is kind of unique, compelling, has the 10 phrasing, has the imagery we want, but again I won't 11 do that as a common reverse if we had Imo Jima on the 12 obverse. 13 And finally, reverse 9, which is 14 unique. 15 flavor and spice to it, and then you have kind of a 16 more compelling image. 17 would recommend is we do go with the Iwo Jima image. 18 We just don't put it on the silver. 19 I mean that's one where you can add a little So long story short, what I We put it on clad because that's what 20 the public is going to buy, and that's not collectors, 21 it's not Marines, and that's what they're going to be 22 excited about, what they're going to be able to learn www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 74 1 more about. 2 The gold you know, is a kind of popping 3 design. I think clad or the silver could go with clad 4 5B or whatever else kind of spoke to you in that 5 regard. Thank you. 6 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: All right. 7 Kellen, thank you very much. 8 than happy to support the liaison's preferences. 9 is clear to me that they have spent a great deal of 10 time looking at the portfolio, but they have picked 11 and choose, selected from different elements to create 12 a selection of coins that they think will work very 13 well representing the Marine Corps, who are they are, 14 what they want to represent, and obviously what too, 15 the general public and the Marine Corps market will be 16 buying these coins. 17 For myself, I am more It I think that the images that they've 18 selected are among some of the strongest in the 19 portfolios. 20 very compelling, and a very strong image, but as Major 21 General Lukeman indicated one of the concerns that 22 they have is trying to move away from depictions of I do recognize that gold obverse 6 is a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 75 1 individuals to depictions that can represent the 2 entirety of the Marine Corps, which this image 3 obviously does not. 4 I really liked silver image obverse 12 5 with the Sergeants encouraging those, a great deal of 6 encouragement in that case. 7 compelling image, and certainly something we have 8 never seen on the U.S. coinage before. 9 I know that also was a But again, I am more than happy to 10 support the liaison's preferences in this portfolio. 11 Donald, do you have quick comment? 12 13 MR. SCARINCI: motion. 14 15 I was going to make a CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Oh. Before the motion let's -- 16 MR. SCARINCI: You know, that's why I 17 love having Kellen on the Committee, you know, he's 18 right. 19 that's their coin. 20 you know. 21 know, just thinking out loud, the coins. 22 danger of restriking -- I call it a restrike, where I mean people are going to buy the clad coin, That's the coin people can afford, And you know what? The danger, and I'm you www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 And the Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 76 1 you're restriking the 2005 coin on the silver. 2 The danger that is if you're looking, 3 you know, if next year people are still at this year 4 and last year, or the year before when people are 5 cutting corners, you know, you already have this coin, 6 so you're why would you get it again, you know? 7 And but, if you put it on the clad, 8 even the half a million people that own the silver 9 might want to buy the clad as a companion piece to the 10 silver from 2005. So from a sale point of view not 11 only do we overcome the restrike because it's not 12 really a restrike, it's a different thing, so you 13 overcome any issue of that. 14 But you know, you go back to the half a 15 million people that own the first coin, and you've got 16 the clad coin now versus putting it on the gold 17 because the gold, the golds don't have a history of 18 selling more than, you know, 15 or 20,000, you know 19 20,000 coins. 20 And I don't know that that design is 21 going to increase that very much beyond maybe 20,000. 22 So I just think Kellen made a good point, it's worth www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 77 1 discussing, and maybe if you don't mind. 2 and I would like here before we vote, I'd really like 3 to hear their comments, the liaisons comments on our 4 comments to hear what they have to say. 5 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 6 MR. TATE: 7 8 9 10 I think -- Perfect. Okay. Chairman, Joe Menna has a hand raised. CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Oh. Thank you. Joe, we'll go to you first, and then Dennis. MR. MENNA: This is Joseph Menna. Mr. 11 Chairman, is it an inappropriate juncture to make it a 12 technical sculpture observation? 13 you're going to hit me? 14 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 15 MR. MENNA: Okay. I didn't know if Please do. With all respect to 16 Donald who knows how much I value his acumen and 17 expertise, in terms of the Iwo Jima flag raising image 18 I would, from an artist perspective right, we're 19 thinking 2D here. 20 novel or a script. 21 22 2D is very much like a text, like a So take one, so and the sculpting would be like a cinematic interpretation of that by a www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 78 1 certain auteur. 2 novel True Grit. 3 that was considered a classic like this 2005 coin. 4 There was a later version in 2010 by the Cohen 5 brothers that most people considered far superior, 6 believe it or not. 7 So take Dick Charles Portis classic There was an earlier version of that As this coin -- and equally so, it's a 8 different interpretation by the actors and the 9 directors, and in this case that would be the 10 sculptor. 11 be able to visit upon this script now, as it goes to 12 20 years ago, is definitely more sophisticated. 13 not talking about digital technology. 14 The sculptural interpretation that we would I'm talking about the quality of our 15 sculpting now is probably the best since Gilroy 16 Roberts, the chief engraver. 17 in the world right now. 18 I'm We have the best staff You will have a much richer, and joyful 19 visually obviously different and more powerful 20 sculpture than we did despite the fact that I think 21 that was the coin of the year actually, that Charles 22 Vickers, that Norman Nemeth sculpted. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 79 1 Norm and Charlie did the obverse and 2 reverse. But you will have the same script, but 3 you'll have a different version of that, you'll have a 4 different interpretation of it. 5 important to consider the sculptor voices where only 6 the Committee is not limiting two potential designs 7 with a numerous amount of coin understanding behind 8 that. 9 assumption. I think it's really I'm not invalidating that, please, or making an 10 But from a sculptor's perspective, I 11 know we can make this pop, and it would be fantastic, 12 and it will honor the service people that it's meant 13 to in a brand new way, even though like when two 14 different bands play the same song, it's not really 15 the same. 16 Jimi Hendrix's Star-Spangled Banner 17 sounds completely different, right? 18 invested in it, and made it a whole new work of art, 19 but it's the same song. 20 Thank you. CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 21 very much. 22 do you have time? He actually Joe, thank you Always appreciate your insights. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Dennis, Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 80 1 MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 2 This is Dennis Tucker. 3 wonderful feedback, and we always appreciate your 4 insight, and it's always welcome by the Committee. 5 wanted to push back a little bit on this concept of 6 the clad half dollar being more the coin of the 7 people, or the more popular denomination in terms of 8 sales. 9 And thank you, Joe. That's I If you look at the sales numbers from 10 recent commemorative programs of the last 10 years or 11 so, the silver dollar, uncirculated and proof, almost 12 always sells at least as well as the half dollar, and 13 typically even better. 14 the coin of the people, you know, if you compare the 15 two. 16 So the silver dollar really is And in terms of affordability for 17 younger people, or people on a budget, I would just 18 encourage people to study the sales data. 19 20 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Thank you. Kellen? 21 22 Thank you. MR. HOARD: Thank you, Joe. This is Kellen Hoard. You know, for me I think even beyond www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 81 1 the sales data what it mostly goes to the reason to 2 the reason to do it on the clad. 3 kind of get away from a very similar design that we 4 did before. 5 we are going to do Iwo Jima on the silver coin there, 6 I think that we go with what the alternative design, 7 so like the ones that Chris mentioned that I do, first 8 maybe zoom in a little bit more, a different vantage 9 point, and a different angle. So it is just to And that's at the base level there. If 10 I think that if you're going to have 11 kind of a different musical message, or a different 12 kind of narrative, you really, you distinguish it. 13 Because to me the liaison represents now is almost 14 identical, even if it's sculpturally maybe different, 15 whereas there are 12 or 23 different Iwo Jimas on 16 this, their whole philosophy that that would be kind 17 of stylistically or compelling. 18 So if we do go with the silver, I think 19 you don't go kind of the -- you've go a little bit 20 more bolder on that one as well. 21 22 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Thank you, Kellen. I just want to underscore that there was a specific www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 82 1 reason why the Major General Lukeman underscored for 2 their selection of this, and that was to include the 3 entirety of the flag, and the entirety of the scene. 4 So you know, their selection of that 5 particular image rather than one that's a little bit 6 more -- was very specific, and very specific reasons 7 behind that. 8 9 John, I see your hand was raised? MR. SAUNDERS: John Saunders here. Yeah. Oh, the mic. I have both a comment I forgot to 10 make when I was discussing the design and motion. The 11 comment is I really like the idea of a bulldog on the 12 coin, but the designs had the bulldog too big where it 13 stole the scene. 14 What I think would be really cool to 15 do, and I'm not going to recommend it in my motion, 16 but I'm going to say it anyway, is to put a bulldog 17 maybe on all three coins, but about the size of a 18 large privy mark, so that it would have the image, but 19 not take away from it. 20 little bulldog, here's our little mascot in the other 21 corner. 22 A little sight, here's a But my motion is to accept the www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 83 1 recommendations of the liaison in its entirety, and 2 then afterwards, as our Chairman has suggested, let's 3 for feedback for future designs. 4 225th anniversary, or whatever the next one is. 5 discussed the designs, certainly new feedback for the 6 designs as well. 7 You know, 175th, And the artistic box is going to be 8 needed to be checked as well. 9 accept the liaisons' recommendation. 10 11 So my motion is we CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Do I have a second? 12 13 We MR. BERNSTEIN: Art Bernstein. I second that. 14 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 15 MR. HOARD: 16 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 17 MR. HOARD: All right. Discussion on the motion? Sure, yeah. I would suggest that -- oh 18 sorry, this is Kellen Hoard. 19 since enough different designs were raised by the 20 members of the Committee, that every member pay 21 attention to different ones. 22 I would suggest that I just ask that we score -- I'm not www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 84 1 opposed to it, but that we score first, and then we 2 can vote on the motion to approve once the designs are 3 -- I think it would be helpful to get a sense of which 4 designs generally are popular, as we usually do. 5 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: I think that that 6 might complicate things a little bit. 7 with the motion as it is, and if it does not carry, 8 then we can. 9 10 MR. HOARD: saying. Well, that's what I'm That we're not going to vote on this part. 11 12 Let's proceed CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: All right. So any other comments on the motion? 13 MR. SCARINCI: So on the motion, I 14 think Joe Menna made a brilliant point about -- and 15 another good point there, which is collectors will 16 have the opportunity compare, you know, compare the 17 remake versus the original, which by the way as he 18 mentioned, coin of the year, so everybody has the 19 information. 20 It's my recollection that this coin in 21 -- this coin was while it did win coin of the year for 22 overall, so it's voted on by over 120 international www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 85 1 voters, numismatist scholars, and people in the 2 industry. 3 this coin that the United States won another coin of 4 the year, so this is the last one for a long, long 5 time. And it wasn't until seven years later after 6 So there is no question this is an 7 iconic design, it's an important coin, it's an 8 important design, and thank you, Joe, for that 9 insight. I hadn't really thought of that, but you're 10 absolutely right. 11 And numismatists will identify the difference and 12 enjoy doing it. 13 It's going to be a different coin. So as to the motion I'm probably going 14 to -- me and John, we're going to probably vote 15 against it because I want to score first. 16 17 MR. SAUNDERS: Well, I wouldn't feel I did it right if you voted for it. 18 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: All right. And 19 let's if there are no further comments on the motion, 20 Dennis? 21 22 You have one? MR. TUCKER: This is Dennis Tucker. Just one quick comment. I would actually encourage www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 86 1 everybody to vote for this one just so that we send a 2 strong message to the Secretary of the Treasury that 3 this is our recommendation. 4 against; right? 5 MR. HOARD: We can vote for or Again, this is Kellen. I'm 6 not opposed to the motion. 7 first, so I'm going to vote against the motion so we 8 can score first, and then we can unanimously, or 9 whatever we're going to report the vote, or however 10 I just want to score you want to do it, I have to score it. 11 MR. SCARINCI: At the discretion of the 12 Chair -- at the discretion of the Chair because I have 13 the same view as Kellen on it. 14 motion as well, but I'd like to score at the 15 discretion of the Chair, can we vote on the motion, 16 and then in addition after the motion is voted for, 17 score? I'll vote for the 18 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 19 MR. SCARINCI: 20 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Sure. Yeah. All right. Okay. 21 So this motion all those in favor please signify by 22 saying aye. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 87 1 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 2 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Aye. So the motion on 3 the table at the moment is to adopt the liaisons 4 preferences as they stand, as the Committee's 5 recommendations to the Secretary. 6 those in favor of the motion please signify by saying 7 aye. 8 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 9 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 10 All right. So all Aye. All those opposed nay. 11 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 12 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 13 the motion carriers. 14 designs. Nay. All right. And so We will now score the candidate 15 MR. TATE: 16 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 17 will now score the candidate designs, and I'll be 18 handing out the score sheets, and these are the 19 equivalent to CCAC Council's -- and we'll take a 20 recess for at least ten minutes, so we will be back at 21 10 minutes to 11. 22 MR. TATE: Chairman, who said nay? Kellen. The time is 10:37. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Yeah. We Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 88 1 (Off the record.) 2 MR. TATE: 3 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: We are back. The time is 10:54. All right. Thank 4 you. 5 to the CCAC to present the results from the scoring 6 sheets. 7 I recognize Greg Weinman, Counsel MR. WEINMAN: We have some interesting 8 scores here. So let's start with the gold. Gold 9 obverse 2 received 3 points; obverse 3 received 4 10 points; obverse 4 received 9 points; obverse 5 11 received 2 points; obverse 5A received 5 points; 12 obverse 6 received 24 points. 13 high vote getter. 14 That's going to be the Obverse 7 received 4 points; obverse 8 15 received 3 points, and obverse 9 received 18 points. 16 Going to the gold reverse. 17 15 points, and again the high point getter, although 18 just barely at the 50 percent mark. 19 Reverse number 1 received Gold reverse 2 received 4 points; 20 reverse 3 received 6 points; reverse 4 received 7 21 points; reverse 5 received 3 points; reverse 6 22 received 2 points; reverse 7 received 9 points, and www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 89 1 reverse 8 received 10 points. 2 gold. 3 That takes care of Let's move to the silver. Silver 4 obverse 1 received 9 points; 2 received 7 points; 5 obverse 3 received 10 points, 3A received 7 points; 4 6 received 8 points; 4A received 10 points; 5 received 7 13 points; obverse 5A received 9 points; obverse 5B 8 received 19 points and is the high vote getter. 9 Obverse 6 received 6 points; obverse 7 10 received 4 points; obverse 7A received 3 points; 11 obverse 9 received 4 points; obverse 10 received 6 12 points; obverse 11 received 6 points; obverse 12 13 received 11 points; Obverse 18 received 5 points, and 14 obverse 14 received 5 points. 15 Moving to the silver reverses. Silver 16 reverse 6 received -- I'm sorry, silver reverse 1 17 received 6 points; silver reverse 2 received 9 points; 18 reverse 3 received 8 points; reverse 4 received 4 19 points; reverse 5 received 18 points to make it the 20 high vote getter. 21 22 Reverse 6 received 4 points; reverse 7 received 3 points; reverse 8 received 8 points; www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 90 1 reverse 9 received 4 points; reverse 10 received 5 2 points, and reverse 11 received 8 points. 3 Moving on to clad. Clad obverse. 4 Obverse number 1 received 4 points; obverse 3 received 5 15 points, making it the high vote getter only at 50 6 percent. 7 received 9 points; obverse 7 received 6 points; 8 obverse 7A received 6 points; 9 Obverse 5 received 7 points; obverse 6 Obverse 8 received 5 points; obverse 9 10 received 5 points. 11 Clad reverse 6 -- I'm sorry, clad reverse 1 received 6 12 points; clad reverse 2 received 6 points; reverse 3 13 received 5 points; reverse 4 received 7 points; 14 reverse 5 received 7 points; 15 Moving on to the clad reverses. Reverse 6 received 3 points; reverse 7 16 received 8 points; reverse 8 received 4 points; and 17 reverse 9 was the high vote getting at 9 points, below 18 the 50 percent threshold. 19 Make of that as you will. CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Okay. Thank you 20 very much again. So we have now scored, and the 21 scores indicated are interesting, but as I believe 22 we've already made the decision on the portfolio what www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 91 1 I would recommend at this point that there are at 2 least suggestions, modifications that we make on the 3 designs that have been selected at this point. 4 MR. SCARINCI: I would simply say I'm 5 sure the liaisons have already told them that the way 6 the process works is the next step is to ask the 7 Commission of Fine Arts if they haven't done it yet, 8 and then after that if they still have direct approach 9 to the Secretary makes the ultimate decision. 10 So if they change their minds on any 11 design, I think it's safe to say on behalf of all of 12 us, that we would not be offended if you change your 13 mind as you continue to go along the process. 14 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: There have been a 15 couple of issues raised by our liaisons, one of which 16 is gold obverse 9. 17 possibility of including a female service member as 18 part of that design. 19 They have requested the MR. TUCKER: This is Dennis Tucker. 20 think that's captured sufficiently in our vote. 21 voted to accept and recommend the liaisons 22 recommendations, which includes that opportunity. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 We I Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 92 1 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: you. 3 case I would like to take a moment then to express our 4 appreciation to our liaisons, Jennifer Vanderveld and 5 Major General Lukeman. 6 with your very impassioned presentation this morning, 7 Major General, and I do hope to be able to pay a visit 8 to the Marine Heritage Public Museum as soon as I 9 possibly can. 11 All right. Thank 2 10 Any other comments? All right. Again, I really was impressed Again, thank you very much. MAJOR GENERAL LUKEMAN: welcome down at the museum any time. 12 Well, in that CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: You all are Call me. All right. Since 13 we are ahead of schedule, I think it would be a good 14 idea to just press on with the agenda items. 15 next agenda item is our review and discussion of the 16 obverse and reverse candidate or candidate design, 17 sorry, for the Janet Yellen Secretary of the Treasury 18 Medal. 19 20 21 22 So the April Stafford and Megan Sullivan will now present us with the portfolio, so April? MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. As part of its bronze medal portfolio, the United States Mint has www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 93 1 historically produced Secretary of the Treasury Medals 2 to commemorate the Secretaries and their legacies. 3 The medals typically feature portraits of the 4 Secretary and the beginning dates of their terms. 5 Reverse elements often include 6 meaningful symbols, seals, and quotes. The United 7 States Mint worked closely with the Secretary's staff 8 in development of a design portfolio, and the 9 Secretary's preferred designs are below. We have 10 obverse 5 seen here. 11 Secretary Yellen, along with the inscription "JANET 12 YELLEN." 13 It features a portrait of Reverse 4 depicts a view of the 14 Treasury Building and the inscription "78TH UNITED 15 STATES SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY." 16 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Thank you very 17 much. Since this is a very small portfolio, with 18 really only one obverse and one reverse design, I do 19 not think that we need to spend five minutes each 20 discussing this. 21 are any comments or observations that might improve 22 the designs, I'd certainly welcome those comments and So what I would suggest is if there www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 94 1 discussion. 2 And I see Dennis has his hand raised. MR. TUCKER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 3 I just wanted to bring attention to the reverse, and 4 specifically the wording and the modifiers. 5 States and Secretary of the Treasury." 6 the Secretary medals have, for example for Secretary 7 Lew, it was the 76th Secretary of the Treasury. 8 9 "United Traditionally, For Secretary Mnuchin, it was 77th Secretary of the Treasury. I think we have misplaced 10 modifiers here, and this should either be 78th 11 Secretary of the United States Treasury, or simply 12 following the traditional wording, which would be 78th 13 Secretary of the Treasury. 14 The way it's worded now there is an 15 implication that there are other Secretaries of the 16 Treasury, and she happens to be the United States 17 Secretary of the Treasury. 18 MS. STAFFORD: Thank you. We will take 19 that back to the Secretary and the staff. 20 MR. TUCKER: Thank you. Other than 21 that, a wonderful portrait, and proceed apace. 22 you. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Thank Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 95 1 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 2 very much for that. 3 comments on the design? 4 Dennis, thank you Are there any other suggests or MR. SCARINCI: Peter, you said 5 comments; right? 6 because this is a gorgeous design, and I really -- I 7 was impressed with the portfolio. 8 most of these going back to Alexander Hamilton, but 9 you know, this one is really, is really gorgeous. 10 You know, so I have to comment You know, I have But you know, Joe, they did a great job 11 on the sculpt. 12 leave it is going to be Janet Yellen because I think 13 she's been the best Secretary of the Treasury since 14 I've been here. 15 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 16 you very much. 17 Dennis? 18 And you know when my time comes to Anything else? MR. TUCKER: Wonderful. Thank Are there any motions? I would just move that we 19 recommend to the Secretary of the Treasury that we 20 accept these designs, with that modification to the 21 text as we said. 22 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Very good. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Do I Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 96 1 have a second? 2 MR. BERNSTEIN: Art Bernstein. 3 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Second. Art, thank you. 4 All those in favor of the motion if there is no 5 further discussion, please indicate by saying aye? 6 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 7 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 8 All right. 9 All right. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Very good. So onto our next and final item on our 10 agenda today. 11 Obverse and Reverse Candidate Designs for the Ventris 12 C. Gibson Director of the Mint Medal. 13 and Megan Sullivan will now present us with the 14 portfolio. 15 This is a Review and Discussion of the MS. STAFFORD: April Stafford Thank you. As part of 16 its bronze medal portfolio of the United States Mint 17 has historically produced Director of the Mint Medals 18 to commemorate the Directors and their legacy. 19 Director Gibson was directly involved in the 20 development of the design portfolio of this medal, and 21 her preferred designs are as follows: 22 Obverse 1A features a portrait of www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 97 1 Director Gibson with the inscriptions "VENTRIS C. 2 GIBSON," and "40TH DIRECTOR OF THE UNITED STATES 3 MINT." 4 elements for Director Gibson. 5 family fun and her family's beloved Golden Retriever. Reverse 1 depicts a compilation of meaningful 6 The mountains for The inscriptions are "FAIRNESS, 7 INTEGRITY, TRUST," Director Gibson's core values. 8 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 9 much, April. Thank you very And again, since this is a very small 10 portfolio with only one obverse and one reverse design 11 candidate, I again will just ask for suggestions or 12 comments to improve the design if there are any. 13 Kellen? 14 15 MR. HOARD: 18 I just had a question. 16 17 This is Kellen Hoard. MR. TATE: Thank you. Can you use your mic? Yeah. Perfect. MR. HOARD: I just had a question for 19 the design staff. I see on the obverse that the top 20 letters seem to be -- have a shadowing or shading and 21 the bottom letters don't. 22 like on the medal? What is that going to look www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 98 1 2 MS. STAFFORD: I'll throw that to our chief engraver to speak to, Joe if you don't mind. 3 MR. MENNA: This is Joseph Menna. Yes, 4 Kellen, sometimes artists throw a shadow on field just 5 so it doesn't look as flat, and you get that the 6 Committees and the stakeholders can get the impression 7 that the text will be dimensional. 8 goes over a device such as, this is a low relief area, 9 CGM kind of style where it fades into the field. 10 But when that text And I think the artist is trying to do 11 the shadow is counterproductive there, so it's already 12 applied that the text, the lower text is above the 13 skull, but on the top of the design it just helps give 14 a little pop to it. 15 It doesn't mean anything specifically. It's just a little razzle dazzle. 16 MR. HOARD: 17 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 18 you very much. Thank you. Thank John, you have a comment? 19 MR. SAUNDERS: 20 MR. TATE: 21 MR. SAUNDERS: 22 All right. John Saunders. Your mic. That's okay. going to say much. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 I'm not Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 99 1 MR. TATE: So they can hear. 2 MR. SAUNDERS: Okay. John Saunders. 3 just wanted to comment that Art has finally got a 4 Golden Retriever on a coin or medal that he's been 5 working on for all this time, so. 6 7 MR. BERNSTEIN: 10 Now we need to make it the official mammal of the United States. 8 9 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: much. All right. discussion, Art? MR. BERNSTEIN: 12 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: MR. TUCKER: Okay. Do we have I would move for approval of the design as submitted. 16 17 Just looking. a motion? 14 15 Thank you very Is there any other comments, 11 13 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Is there a second? Kellen? 18 MR. HOARD: 19 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Second. Any further discussion? Thank you very 20 much. 21 those in favor please signify by saying aye. 22 I Seeing none. MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: Aye. www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 All Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 100 1 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Any opposed? 2 The motion carries unanimously. All 3 right. If all the discussion then has concluded, 4 which it seems to have, I would like to thank the CCAC 5 members and the staff, and our liaisons and the public 6 for their attendance both yesterday and today. 7 upcoming meetings will be announced in the Federal 8 Register, so it's prior to the public meeting. 9 now I will happily entertain a motion to adjourn. 10 MR. TUCKER: 11 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 12 And Dennis Tucker, so moved. All right. A second? 13 MR. BERNSTEIN: 14 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: 15 All seconds. Second. Art Bernstein All in favor signify by saying aye. 16 MULTIPLE SPEAKERS: 17 CHAIRMAN VAN ALFEN: Aye. The ayes have it, 18 so this meeting stands adjourned at 11:10 a.m. The 19 next public meeting will be posted in the Federal 20 Register, so thank you. 21 (Whereupon, the meeting concluded at 22 11:10 a.m.) www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 101 1 2 CERTIFICATE I, MATTHEW YANCEY, the officer before whom 3 the foregoing proceedings were taken, do hereby 4 certify that any witness(es) in the foregoing 5 proceedings, prior to testifying, were duly sworn; 6 that the proceedings were recorded by me and 7 thereafter reduced to typewriting by a qualified 8 transcriptionist; that said digital audio recording of 9 said proceedings are a true and accurate record to the 10 best of my knowledge, skills, and ability; that I am 11 neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any 12 of the parties to the action in which this was taken; 13 and, further, that I am not a relative or employee of 14 any counsel or attorney employed by the parties 15 hereto, nor financially or otherwise interested in the 16 outcome of this action. <%29511,Signature%> 17 MATTHEW YANCEY 18 Notary Public in and for the 19 District of Columbia 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting April 17, 2024 Page 102 1 2 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER I, HELEN VENTURINI, do hereby certify that 3 this transcript was prepared from the digital audio 4 recording of the foregoing proceeding, that said 5 transcript is a true and accurate record of the 6 proceedings to the best of my knowledge, skills, and 7 ability; that I am neither counsel for, related to, 8 nor employed by any of the parties to the action in 9 which this was taken; and, further, that I am not a 10 relative or employee of any counsel or attorney 11 employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or 12 otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. 13 14 <%17264,Signature%> 15 HELEN VENTURINI 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting [05 - 5a] 0 05 48:12 06 49:1 1 1 13:14 28:19 28:21 29:9,18 30:3 72:4 73:7 73:8 88:16 89:4,16 90:4 90:11 97:3 10 17:7 29:7,15 80:10 87:21 89:1,5,6,11 90:1 10:37 87:22 10:54 88:2 11 4:4 29:7,16 87:21 89:12,13 90:2 118-10 16:16 11:10 100:18 100:22 12 29:7 31:20 57:19 75:4 81:15 89:12 120 84:22 13 29:7 89:7 14 29:7 56:15 57:7,7 89:14 15 76:18 88:17 90:5 16 4:7 16th 35:21 17 1:7 5:18 1700's 45:18 17264 102:14 April 17, 2024 Page 1 175th 83:3 1775 17:7 23:2 26:6,9 29:5,20 47:9,12 53:13 1798 17:15 17th 35:21 18 21:5 88:15 89:13,19 1812 17:19 1868 26:19 19 21:6 89:8 1920 36:2 1945 25:7 1980 43:22 1991 18:22 1a 68:19,21 96:22 2 2 28:12,19,21 29:9 30:3 72:13,15 88:9 88:11,19,22 89:4,17 90:12 20 21:5 72:1 78:12 20,000 76:18 76:19,21 2000 36:21 40:3 2003 19:1 2005 22:18 36:22 37:6,21 39:13 41:15 59:14 71:21 76:1,10 78:3 2006 37:3 2010 78:4 2016 37:7 2018 12:14 2019 37:9 63:13 2021 13:10 2022 13:10 14:10 20220 1:14 2023 13:14 2024 1:7 5:18 2025 17:9 20:20 26:6,9 27:12 28:8 29:5 39:13 40:5 53:13 225th 83:4 23 25:7 31:20 81:15 230th 22:18 37:1 24 88:12 250 23:16,20 24:1 25:4 26:12,16 27:6 29:3 43:11,14 46:11 250th 3:19 4:6 7:18 10:10,21 16:14,19 17:10 20:1 51:8 52:12 29511 101:16 2d 77:19,19 3 3 28:12,20,21 29:9,18,20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 30:3 54:4,4 57:22 69:16 70:1 88:9,9,15 88:20,21 89:5 89:10,18,22 90:4,12,15 330 40:3 3:30 6:1 3a 28:21 89:5 4 4 28:12,20,21 29:9 30:3 49:13 56:5 68:4 70:17 88:9,10,14,19 88:20 89:5,10 89:11,18,18,21 90:1,4,13,16 93:13 40 39:11 40th 97:2 45 21:22 4a 28:21 69:16 89:6 5 5 4:3 28:12,20 28:22 29:9,13 30:2,3 50:16 88:10,11,21 89:6,13,14,19 90:1,6,9,10,13 90:14 93:10 50 88:18 90:5 90:18 5a 28:12,22 88:11 89:7 Meeting [5b - alfen] 5b 28:22 46:6 49:22 50:16 74:4 89:7 6 6 28:12,20 29:7 29:15 30:2,3 50:3 51:15 61:17 62:16 66:5 68:12 71:2,3,16 72:10 74:19 88:12,20,21 89:9,9,11,12 89:16,17,21 90:6,7,8,11,11 90:12,15 6,000 22:4 600,000 40:2 6590123 1:20 7 7 28:12,20 29:7 29:15 30:2,4 53:18,20 88:14 88:20,22 89:4 89:5,9,21 90:6 90:7,13,14,15 70 38:6 76th 94:7 77th 94:8 78th 93:14 94:10,12 7a 29:7 30:2 89:10 90:8 8 8 28:12,20 30:2 30:4 72:19 April 17, 2024 Page 2 88:14 89:1,6 89:18,22,22 90:2,9,16,16 801 1:13 8th 35:22 9 9 28:12 29:7,15 29:15 30:2,4 55:15 68:1 73:13 88:10,15 88:22 89:4,7 89:11,17 90:1 90:7,9,17,17 91:16 92 4:9 95 22:2 96 4:11 9:02 1:8 5:18 9th 1:13 a a.m. 1:8 100:18 100:22 ability 19:5 101:10 102:7 able 23:22 27:11 48:22 54:2 61:8 73:22 78:11 92:7 above 19:13 98:12 absolutely 85:10 accept 82:22 83:9 91:21 95:20 accomplishm... 21:17 accurate 47:11 47:13 101:9 102:5 acknowledged 30:12 37:8,10 43:7 acquisition 12:19 action 101:12 101:16 102:8 102:12 active 43:22 actively 41:15 activity 13:1 actors 78:8 actual 30:13 actually 11:14 22:20 44:6 46:3 52:17 53:3,3,12 54:7 62:18 68:5 69:20 70:16 72:8 78:21 79:17 85:22 acumen 77:16 add 29:22 30:8 30:14,20 72:6 73:14 addition 86:16 additional 29:3 29:12,19 50:17 addressed 11:10 69:4 adjourn 100:9 adjourned 100:18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 adopt 87:3 ads 32:21 advantage 64:7 67:20 68:6,15 adversity 25:17 advising 13:22 advisory 1:1 5:11,17 11:16 13:18,19 14:19 15:5 affairs 2:4 3:11 3:12 10:4,14 10:15 afford 75:19 affordability 80:16 afghanistan 19:2 africa 17:17 aftermarket 59:14 agenda 7:15 92:14,15 96:10 ago 21:1 78:12 agree 51:20 55:14 56:8 64:11 66:5 67:10 ahead 46:2 57:16 92:13 air 17:3 34:1 34:17 35:3,5 alexander 14:7 95:8 alfen 1:6 2:5 5:9,15 6:10,13 6:17,20 7:1,4,7 7:10,12 8:13 Meeting [alfen - attendance] 8:20 9:1,4,7,10 9:13,16,19 10:2,6,9,13,17 11:7,13 16:1 27:14 28:3 30:6 31:2,5,18 33:12 35:10 36:11,14,17 43:16 46:1 47:16 48:7 49:7,10 50:9 50:20 52:2 54:15,18 57:5 57:10,14 58:7 62:19 64:13 66:15 67:3,6 74:6 75:14 77:5,8,14 79:20 80:19 81:21 83:10,14 83:16 84:5,11 85:18 86:18,20 87:2,9,12,16 88:3 90:19 91:14 92:1,12 93:16 95:1,15 95:22 96:3,7 97:8 98:17 99:8,12,16,19 100:1,11,14,17 allowed 18:10 allows 72:8 alongside 18:22 alternative 40:12 61:16 71:9,10 81:6 April 17, 2024 Page 3 amazing 28:2 32:5 america 28:9 american 2:11 6:14 13:2 14:10 17:20 18:2,15 24:14 28:14 53:1 63:13 americans 21:11 23:22 27:12 40:3,8 amount 42:14 63:14 79:7 amphibious 18:11 anchor 19:17 26:18 29:10 32:15,18 33:4 56:21 anchors 32:22 angle 70:13 81:9 annalisa 57:6 annelisa 2:20 7:10 54:16,20 58:8 anniversary 4:7 7:19 10:21 16:14,19 17:10 20:1 22:18 37:1,2 51:8 52:13 83:4 announce 6:3 announced 100:7 anonymous 38:16 answer 27:9 46:15 47:1 59:16 66:15 anticipated 18:8 anxious 37:19 anybody 21:21 26:2 45:12 anyway 16:7 82:16 apace 94:21 apologies 10:1 appealing 42:2 58:1 62:17 appear 33:21 applied 98:12 appointed 12:14 appreciate 15:14 50:17 57:18 63:2 64:9 68:8 79:21 80:3 appreciation 92:4 approach 56:12 91:8 approval 99:14 approve 84:2 approximately 6:1 april 1:7 2:22 5:18 8:20 16:17,20 20:13 23:1 24:5 27:15 30:7,17 30:22 92:19,20 96:12 97:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 archives 12:21 area 98:8 argonne 18:7 arlington 26:3 army 18:22 arranged 57:20 art 12:17,21 30:15 36:14,15 50:10,21 79:18 83:12 96:2,3 99:3,10 100:14 artfulness 56:5 arthur 2:7 6:7 50:12 articles 59:11 artist 53:5 71:6 77:18 98:10 artistic 52:15 53:22 69:1 71:2 72:7 83:7 artistically 67:20 artists 52:7,21 66:1,20 98:4 arts 12:16 13:3 91:7 asked 14:9 aspects 39:22 assaults 18:11 asset 19:11 assistance 17:4 associate 24:19 35:16 assume 46:4 assumption 79:9 attendance 8:15 100:6 Meeting [attendees - brilliant] attendees 2:2 3:2 attention 37:15 51:14 53:17,21 54:6,13 58:19 83:21 94:3 attorney 101:14 102:10 attracted 50:16 52:18 attractive 42:9 audio 9:22 101:8 102:3 auteur 78:1 authentic 46:9 authorized 16:16 available 58:15 avoid 67:9 68:13 71:1 award 4:4 7:16 11:17,20 13:18 13:20 14:5,12 awards 13:4 25:2 aware 8:6 awareness 37:16 awesome 20:14 aye 86:22 87:1 87:7,8 96:5,6 99:21,22 100:15,16 ayes 100:17 b back 5:10,16 13:11 22:17 April 17, 2024 Page 4 23:2 25:16 27:15 36:2 43:12 45:19 46:14,15 47:4 49:4 58:22 59:15 62:12 76:14 80:5 87:20 88:4 94:19 95:8 background 16:22 29:2 64:3 backgrounds 47:19 backs 33:7 bad 37:14,17 58:22 64:20 baijal 3:7 9:13 9:15 band 22:14 bands 79:14 banner 79:16 bar 23:7,9,10 23:12,14 barbary 17:16 barely 88:18 barracks 35:22 base 69:12 81:4 based 37:4,6 54:1 basis 17:15 basketball 60:17 battalions 17:8 23:3,6 battle 24:22 25:18 battlefields 18:5 battles 39:5 beautiful 51:16 55:17 began 5:19 beginning 15:4 93:4 behalf 91:11 believe 7:13 21:6 36:14 50:2 78:6 90:21 belleau 18:6 belongs 49:20 beloved 97:5 benefit 33:16 bernstein 2:7 6:7,9 36:16 50:10,11,12 83:12,12 96:2 96:2 99:6,11 100:13,14 best 21:11 40:20 61:4 78:15,16 95:13 101:10 102:6 better 19:8 61:15 66:9 80:13 beyond 15:6 23:19 76:21 80:22 biden 8:3 big 12:4 22:19 82:12 biggest 21:17 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 bit 44:16 50:6 54:5 66:8 68:19 71:20 72:6,9,22 80:5 81:8,19 82:5 84:6 block 32:17 blue 24:18 bold 67:18,22 68:5 71:15 bolder 72:22 81:20 boneza 3:6 9:10 book 34:20 36:21 37:4 42:7 boot 39:2,3 44:12 born 23:11,15 bottom 27:1 97:21 box 83:7 boxer 18:3 bradley 36:22 37:7 brain 21:6 brand 79:13 brave 19:12 bravely 17:21 18:16 breadth 72:16 brendan 3:11 10:13 brief 55:12 briefly 53:17 brilliant 43:1 84:14 Meeting [bring - chairman] bring 36:5 40:20 51:14 63:3 69:19 94:3 britannia 13:13 bronze 14:6,8 92:22 96:16 brookgreen 12:19 13:2,3 15:21 16:9 brookgreen's 12:21 brother 43:20 brothers 78:5 brought 12:9 21:2 36:2 budget 80:17 buffalo 44:10 65:12,13,14,15 build 21:19 22:20 building 22:3,9 25:22 93:14 built 22:9 bulldog 35:15 35:17,18,19,21 36:2,3,6,8,8 82:11,12,16,20 bulldogs 36:9 bullion 14:2 bumper 34:19 business 11:14 butler 36:2 buy 42:19,20 42:20 73:20 75:18 76:9 April 17, 2024 Page 5 buying 69:8 74:16 c c 2:1 3:1 4:1,11 5:1 7:22 96:12 97:1 c2 56:14 call 4:3,3 5:10 5:16 6:7 8:16 15:18 45:7 75:22 92:11 called 18:4 23:14 24:13 34:20 calling 19:15 camp 39:2,3 44:13 campell 13:1 candidate 4:5,8 4:10 7:17,20 7:22 8:3 16:13 20:3 30:5 87:13,17 92:16 92:16 96:11 97:11 candidates 16:18 canvas 63:16 capozzola 2:10 6:14,16 33:12 33:13,14 46:17 52:3,4,5 captain 23:5 capture 18:13 captured 91:20 care 21:16 22:10 89:1 careful 43:22 carpet 15:21 carriers 87:13 carries 43:4 96:8 100:2 carroll 13:1 carry 84:7 carrying 24:14 28:13 case 75:6 78:9 92:3 categories 31:7 ccac 1:2 2:4,6 3:10,18 5:3 7:13,16 8:6 10:4,7 12:14 13:7,16,21 14:8,11 16:5 20:18 87:19 88:5 100:4 cede 54:14 celebrate 17:9 21:17 celebrates 45:4 celebration 58:2 cent 65:1 center 13:2 centering 72:14 ceo 20:7 ceremony 7:16 certain 25:10 64:18 78:1 certainly 11:8 16:8 31:7 37:11 59:9 62:10 75:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 83:5 93:22 certificate 101:1 102:1 certification 14:6 certify 101:4 102:2 cgm 98:9 chair 43:18 50:11 62:21 80:1 86:12,12 86:15 chairman 1:6 5:8,9,15 6:10 6:13,17,20 7:1 7:4,7,10 8:13 8:20 9:1,4,7,10 9:13,16,19 10:2,6,9,13,17 11:7,13 16:1 27:14 28:3 30:4,6 31:2,5 31:18 33:12 35:10 36:11,14 36:17 43:16 46:1 47:16 48:7 49:7,10 50:9,20,22 52:2 54:15,18 54:19 57:5,10 57:14 58:7 62:19 64:12,13 65:18 66:15 67:3,6 74:6 75:14 77:5,6,8 77:11,14 79:20 80:19 81:21 83:2,10,14,16 Meeting [chairman - collector] 84:5,11 85:18 86:18,20 87:2 87:9,12,15,16 88:3 90:19 91:14 92:1,12 93:16 94:2 95:1,15,22 96:3,7 97:8 98:17 99:8,12 99:16,19 100:1 100:11,14,17 chairperson 2:6 7:13 challenge 27:7 32:5 challenges 18:9 chance 46:5 change 28:16 29:15 30:22 33:5 39:11 61:7 91:10,12 changed 26:11 changes 26:10 47:11 charged 23:5 charles 78:1,21 charlie 79:1 checked 83:8 chesty 35:20 44:15 45:5 chief 2:22 3:8 3:13,16 8:21 9:20 11:1,3 78:16 98:2 children 55:7 choice 41:5 48:17 49:22 April 17, 2024 Page 6 choices 34:3 44:22 51:9 63:1 66:17 choked 20:14 25:11 choose 19:12 37:22 49:1,12 49:12,19 74:11 chose 33:1,8 45:13 49:14 50:15 chris 33:12,13 52:5 54:16 69:18 70:9 81:7 christopher 2:10 6:13 52:3 church 22:6 cinematic 77:22 circulating 14:1 citizens 1:1 5:11,17 11:16 13:17,19 14:19 15:5 city 17:22 civil 18:1 58:13 civilian 39:3 clad 26:5 29:6 29:17,18,20 30:3 48:6 49:21 50:15 57:11 67:12 69:8,11 70:11 70:15,19 71:1 71:2,3,10,13 73:8,19 74:3,3 75:18 76:7,9 76:16 80:6 81:2 90:3,3,10 90:11,11,12 clarification 57:15 70:2 classic 78:1,3 clear 30:21 45:19 74:9 clearly 60:6 click 69:20 close 21:5 closely 93:7 cohen 78:4 coin 3:20 4:7 7:19 8:10 10:11,22 15:11 16:14,15,20 20:20 22:17,19 23:21 24:11 27:1 30:14 33:6,7,22 37:1 37:3,6,6,20 39:12,13 40:4 40:7,8 41:20 42:4,15,21 44:6 49:2 51:16,17 53:19 55:16 56:18 58:1 59:10,12 59:15 60:6,17 60:22 61:1,2,5 61:15,15,18,19 62:17 64:22 65:7,7,8,13 66:3,5 68:14 69:8,11 71:21 73:1 75:18,19 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 75:19 76:1,5 76:15,16 78:3 78:7,21 79:7 80:6,14 81:5 82:12 84:18,20 84:21,21 85:3 85:3,7,10 99:4 coinage 1:1 5:11,17 11:16 13:17,19 14:2 14:2,2,19 15:5 53:1 68:15 75:8 coinnews 8:12 coins 14:14 26:14 28:8 29:14 40:20 42:11 48:14 51:5 58:11,12 58:14,14 61:4 62:2 63:11,11 63:15 64:5 65:10 67:19 70:11 74:12,16 75:21 76:19 82:17 colleague 52:6 colleagues 14:15 16:2 collect 59:9 collecting 44:7 59:5 collection 55:4 65:3 collections 12:18,22 collector 42:16 64:22 65:1 Meeting [collectors - contribution] collectors 59:2 59:4,8,13 69:13 73:20 84:15 color 24:12 28:13,18 63:5 63:8,21 66:9 colors 24:15,20 25:3 63:5 columbia 101:19 combat 17:5 18:22 combine 68:22 come 16:9 20:17 23:8,9 40:17 41:17,22 56:3 62:12 67:5 comes 35:6 36:1,22 37:4 95:11 coming 48:3 52:8 commandant 23:4 commemorate 43:11,14 93:2 96:18 commemorates 42:4 commemorat... 37:1 46:11 commemorat... 52:12,14 commemorat... 3:20 4:7 7:19 10:11,21 16:14 16:15,20 20:19 22:17 41:20 42:15 58:12 64:19 80:10 comment 50:14 59:21 72:4,5 75:11 82:9,11 85:21 95:5 98:18 99:3 comments 12:9 14:21 47:22 77:3,3,4 84:12 85:19 92:2 93:21,22 95:3 95:5 97:12 99:9 commission 91:7 commitment 19:16 29:4 34:1,11,13 committed 13:7 committee 1:1 5:11,17 6:6 11:16 12:5,6 13:8,12,18,19 14:19 15:5,8 16:8 31:11 33:15 62:6 69:5 75:17 79:6 80:4 83:20 committee's 87:4 committees 98:6 April 17, 2024 Page 7 commodore 47:6 common 29:13 35:9 64:8 73:1 73:11 companion 76:9 company 12:11 compare 80:14 84:16,16 compelling 42:9 61:20 62:3 67:20 68:1,12 73:9 73:16 74:20 75:7 81:17 compilation 97:3 complete 63:9 completely 53:6 79:17 complicate 84:6 complicated 66:10 component 46:13 conceivable 60:18 concept 63:4 67:10 80:5 concerns 74:21 concise 62:18 concluded 100:3,21 concludes 30:4 confidence 58:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 confident 16:5 confirm 8:15 congratulate 51:5,7 congratulating 14:18 congress 17:8 23:3 41:20 congressional 14:3 connection 24:17 26:14,15 44:21 conservation 12:20 consider 13:11 79:5 considered 78:3,5 consistently 14:13 cont'd 3:1,2 contains 14:5 contents 55:9 continental 17:8,12,13 23:3 29:1 continue 22:11 23:19 91:13 continued 19:21 continues 22:10 continuing 15:16 contribution 13:20 Meeting [contributions - depicts] contributions 52:16 controversial 37:5 controversy 37:13,14,14,17 conversation 30:11 45:1 convey 53:12 conveys 58:3 convinced 64:9 coo 20:8 21:4 cool 82:14 core 34:12 97:7 corner 82:21 corners 76:5 corps 3:14,16 3:20 4:6 7:18 10:10,21 11:2 11:4 16:14,19 17:1,6,9,14 18:5,8 19:3,10 19:11,16,22 20:2,4,6,7,9,15 20:20 21:1,3,8 21:10,12,18,20 21:22 22:7,12 22:14,19,21 23:2,5,10,11 23:15,16 24:1 24:12,15,17,20 24:20,22 25:3 26:4,16,19,22 28:13,14 29:11 32:5,20 34:9 34:10,12,18,21 35:9,20 36:4,7 37:2 38:22 39:17,19 43:11 43:15 45:4,11 47:2,6,10 48:12 51:8,22 54:10 55:8 56:1,10 58:5 74:13,15 75:2 correct 30:16 36:20 38:14,15 corridor 47:5,7 costello 9:16 council's 87:19 counsel 3:9,9 3:19 10:7,7,10 88:4 101:11,14 102:7,10 counterinsur... 19:2 counterprodu... 98:11 country 23:17 24:1,3,17 25:9 25:13 26:15 40:21 44:21 51:3 52:1 couple 52:11 91:15 courage 19:16 29:4 33:22 34:11,13 35:8 50:5 course 28:9 29:5,14 65:12 cousin 50:16 crazy 72:6 create 32:4 59:14 74:11 April 17, 2024 Page 8 creates 37:15 37:15 creating 73:1 creation 53:6 cries 65:5 crisis 17:1 19:5 23:17 critical 19:21 criticism 60:21 60:22 crops 44:7 cross 18:12 culture 19:21 21:10,13 curator 2:6 7:13 12:18 curious 46:7 current 35:21 currently 38:13 cutting 76:5 d d 5:1 damn 49:11 danger 75:20 75:22 76:2 data 80:18 81:1 date 21:18 dates 54:10 93:4 day 5:2,19,19 22:9 23:13 45:19 days 60:19 dazzle 98:14 dc 1:14 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 deal 74:9 75:5 decided 23:3 decision 64:12 90:22 91:9 decorated 45:5 defeated 25:18 definitely 43:4 78:12 deliberation 31:9 deliberations 28:7 delighted 58:12 demand 19:6 dennis 2:18 7:4 43:17 62:20 64:13 77:9 79:21 80:2 85:20,22 91:19 94:1 95:1,17 100:10 denomination 28:10 29:15 80:7 denominations 66:11 department 1:11 13:16 44:5 depict 26:13 depicted 26:3 46:13 63:8 depiction 47:13 depictions 51:21 74:22 75:1 depicts 93:13 97:3 Meeting [deployment - donald] deployment 17:2 deputy 2:21 8:17 11:19,22 12:11 describe 44:1 described 26:20 31:1 describes 34:21 descriptions 34:17 35:7,9 design 2:22 3:3 3:4,5,6,7 8:21 9:2,5,8,11,14 9:17 14:1 15:11 16:18 25:19 27:1 28:12,15,22 29:5,9,18,21 40:13,14 49:1 55:15,17 57:18 62:4 63:19 66:14 67:22 71:3,10,14,16 73:4 74:3 76:20 81:3,6 82:10 85:7,8 91:11,18 92:16 93:8,18 95:3,6 96:20 97:10,12 97:19 98:13 99:15 designed 25:21 designers 32:3 52:16 designs 4:5,8 4:10 7:18,20 7:22 8:3 16:13 April 17, 2024 Page 9 19:22 20:3 27:10 30:5 31:6 32:4,11 35:15 37:22 39:20 41:1 42:1,1,10 55:13 56:9 59:17,19 63:22 66:12 70:12 71:9 79:6 82:12 83:3,5,6 83:19 84:2,4 87:14,17 91:3 93:9,22 95:20 96:11,21 despite 78:20 detail 29:22 30:8,19,22 50:17 51:19 55:20 56:6 63:14,16 67:17 detailed 55:18 56:20 57:3 63:18 details 30:18 determination 18:15 developing 20:3 development 14:14 93:8 96:20 device 98:8 dick 78:1 difference 26:10 30:13 85:11 different 31:6 31:20,21 32:17 32:19,21 39:20 39:22 56:9 64:4,5 66:10 66:10,11 70:13 72:18 74:11 76:12 78:8,19 79:3,4,14,17 81:8,9,11,11 81:14,15 83:19 83:21 85:10 differential 53:2 difficult 72:17 digital 78:13 101:8 102:3 dimensional 98:7 direct 91:8 direction 53:8 directly 96:19 director 2:3,21 4:11 8:1,17 10:3 11:19 12:1,12 96:12 96:17,19 97:1 97:2,4,7 directors 78:9 96:18 directs 12:19 discretion 86:11,12,15 discussed 83:5 discussing 77:1 82:10 93:20 discussion 4:5 4:8,10 7:17,20 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 7:22 8:2 37:15 37:15 40:17 41:1,9 43:5 44:17 47:20 54:13 66:21 83:15 92:15 94:1 96:5,10 99:10,20 100:3 discussions 12:10 44:11 disinclined 69:2 displays 29:10 distinguish 81:12 distinguished 15:10 18:5 district 101:19 diverse 48:20 diversify 60:21 diversity 63:20 division 22:13 47:1,3 documentation 12:20 dog 72:11 doing 42:4 48:22 85:12 dollar 48:15 49:20 50:3 63:11,14 67:11 68:9,10,12,14 80:6,11,12,13 donald 2:16 7:1 36:17 58:8 63:3 64:16 75:11 77:16 Meeting [dr - faces] dr 2:8,10 6:10 6:12,13,16 36:13 50:21,22 52:3 draw 53:16,21 54:5,13 drawn 54:7 55:13 dress 24:18 dressed 36:4 47:9,10 drill 39:21 drive 22:4 25:20 drop 60:2,11 61:11 due 70:12 duly 101:5 duty 50:4 dynamic 57:1 70:9 e e 2:1,1 3:1,1 4:1 5:1,1 28:9 eagle 19:17 26:18 29:10 32:15,18,22 33:4 earlier 78:2 earned 19:8 earning 43:11 easier 67:14 editor 8:11,12 educate 21:11 51:5 education 27:17 33:17 April 17, 2024 Page 10 either 62:5 67:12 69:16 94:10 elaborate 30:9 element 35:6 elements 35:5 56:3,17 57:2 74:11 93:5 97:4 elite 27:1 elizabeth 3:19 10:9 emblem 19:17 26:19 29:11 emblematic 20:1 emphasis 19:20 emphasize 69:10,15 employed 101:11,14 102:8,11 employee 101:13 102:10 encourage 80:18 85:22 encouragement 75:6 encouraging 75:5 enemy 18:19 19:9 enforcement 44:4 english 36:8 engraver 3:8 9:20 62:11 78:16 98:2 engravers 52:21 engraving 9:17 enjoy 85:12 enlisted 23:10 ensure 30:15 entertain 100:9 enthusiastic 27:16 entire 32:10,12 49:15 entirety 75:2 82:3,3 83:1 equally 78:7 equipment 18:10 equivalent 87:19 error 59:7 errors 59:3,4 es 101:4 especially 7:12 12:8 56:13,19 57:19 58:1 61:3 68:2 evans 3:5 9:7,9 event 38:12 events 36:5 everybody 12:2 20:17 33:3 73:4 84:18 86:1 examining 38:11 example 31:22 63:13 94:6 excellence 19:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 exception 27:3 48:11 excited 20:19 24:3 27:11 57:2 70:16,21 73:22 exciting 55:11 70:4,9,11,12 70:19 exclusive 42:6 excuse 50:14 executive 3:16 11:3 exhibition 12:20 existence 17:13 expeditionary 17:2 expensive 41:19 experience 15:9 expertise 77:17 expertly 56:20 explaining 44:21 express 92:3 exquisite 63:15 extremely 13:7 55:18 f f 22:2 fabulous 41:14 facebook 60:1 faces 38:18 45:9 55:19 61:8 Meeting [fact - friendships] fact 49:15 78:20 facts 36:21 38:2 fades 98:9 failed 38:21 fairness 97:6 faithful 19:19 34:9 faithfully 30:15 family 55:4 97:5 family's 97:5 fanatical 21:15 fantastic 79:11 far 12:5 40:18 40:19 78:5 favor 86:21 87:6 96:4 99:21 100:15 favorite 40:14 56:15 65:2 feature 93:3 features 93:10 96:22 february 25:7 federal 100:7 100:19 feedback 66:1 80:3 83:3,5 feel 50:3 62:13 67:22 85:16 felt 64:6 female 63:21 91:17 fidelis 19:18 33:22 34:8 35:8 April 17, 2024 Page 11 field 15:10 98:4 98:9 fight 19:11 34:2,16,21 fighting 18:19 figures 44:18 48:20 61:22 63:19 fill 61:14 62:3,4 film 38:12 final 18:6 96:9 finally 10:18 73:13 99:3 financially 101:15 102:11 find 49:11 fine 48:13,14 49:21 71:18 91:7 finished 66:21 first 5:3 16:11 19:10 23:4 24:11 30:19 34:2,16,20,22 36:1 38:2 39:1 42:22 44:10 46:10,12,18,21 54:22 64:1,6 65:3 76:15 77:9 81:7 84:1 85:15 86:7,8 fiscal 13:10 five 33:20 48:1 48:15 59:20 61:9 63:11,14 68:10,12,14 93:19 fixed 5:5 flag 18:14 24:15 25:5,12 25:22 28:14,14 29:19 32:8,10 32:12,14 38:5 38:14 39:15 40:1,4 48:21 49:15 53:4 55:17 56:14 61:12 62:7,15 70:3 77:17 82:3 flagpole 60:13 flags 48:18 60:6,12,13,14 61:12,13 63:6 flat 98:5 flavor 71:20 72:6,9 73:15 flavorful 72:3 fleet 18:10 focus 18:18 58:18 focusing 17:2 folks 25:17 followed 19:3 following 8:15 17:11,20 94:12 follows 96:21 footlocker 55:9 force 17:2 27:2 27:3 35:1,5 52:14 forces 18:10,19 foregoing 101:3,4 102:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 foreground 29:1 foreign 19:4 forgetting 35:1 forgot 82:9 formal 34:3 former 3:18 7:16 44:2 forth 58:22 59:15 66:1,20 fortunate 20:5 21:2 forward 11:8 15:15 38:6 40:21 41:1 45:16 fought 17:21 18:16,21 24:22 found 15:5 52:17 68:4,12 foundation 3:14,17 11:2,4 20:5,8,9 21:3,9 21:18 22:8 43:13 founder 8:11 four 21:1 25:9 39:10 63:19 fourth 40:13 40:18,21 41:5 framed 14:5 france 18:6 friend 19:8 friendship 15:13 friendships 15:16 Meeting [full - great] full 13:12 53:4 fuller 2:8 6:11 6:12 36:13 50:21,22 51:1 fun 97:5 further 54:13 85:19 96:5 99:20 101:13 102:9 future 83:3 g g 5:1 gagnon 37:9 gardens 12:19 13:3 15:21 16:9 gas 60:15 gear 26:10 47:11 general 2:7,19 2:20 3:15 6:8 7:8,11 11:2,5 20:6,11,13,22 24:9 27:14,18 28:1 30:17 31:4 32:2 34:7 35:4,19 38:1 40:15 41:7,11 43:9,19 45:3 46:19,22 47:18 49:13 50:18 51:1,21 62:22 69:13 74:15,21 82:1 92:5,7,10 generally 53:14 54:2 84:4 April 17, 2024 Page 12 generic 52:13 gentlemen 14:17 getter 88:13,17 89:8,20 90:5 getting 20:14 41:20 72:21 90:17 gibson 4:11 8:1 96:12,19 97:1 97:2,4 gibson's 97:7 gilkes 8:10 gilroy 78:15 give 42:17 50:7 60:15 61:6 62:14 64:2 66:4 68:21 71:6 98:13 given 24:21 giving 53:5 glass 22:3 globe 19:17 26:18 29:10 32:15,18,22 33:4 56:21 72:21 go 22:2,17 27:9 31:16 40:13,16 40:18,19 41:6 41:19 43:12 46:2 47:5 49:4 55:12 57:15 58:22 59:15 60:16 61:17,19 65:21 68:18 69:3 70:15 71:8,9,12,19 73:17 74:3 76:14 77:9 81:6,18,19,19 91:13 god 28:8 goes 15:12 39:2 39:3 53:8 78:11 81:1 98:8 going 25:13 28:5 30:13 32:6 37:18 41:9 43:2,14 44:7,8 45:15 45:21 48:10,10 48:21 49:19 54:12 58:4 60:8,9,15,16 60:20 61:4,8 62:5,15,16 63:17 65:16 66:13 69:11,13 69:14 70:15,18 71:2 72:4 73:20,21,22 75:12,18 76:21 77:13 81:5,10 82:15,16 83:7 84:10 85:10,13 85:14 86:7,9 88:12,16 95:8 95:12 97:21 98:22 gold 14:3 24:11 28:11,15,19 48:6,10,22 49:4,6 51:15 53:18 57:10 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 60:5 61:1,4,10 61:14,15,18,19 62:17 63:11,11 63:14 65:8 66:5 67:12,14 67:15,16,19 68:4,10,16 69:16 71:13,14 72:4 74:2,19 76:16,17 88:8 88:8,16,19 89:2 91:16 golden 97:5 99:4 golds 76:17 good 5:2,10,16 8:9 12:10,13 20:16 24:10 37:22 44:20 50:2,3,8 52:4 58:21 61:13 76:22 84:15 92:13 95:22 96:8 gorgeous 95:6 95:9 gosh 21:5 32:6 38:6 government 3:11 10:14 grading 56:20 grandchildren 55:7 gravitate 59:3 great 11:15 12:2 15:8,9,15 20:16 24:9 27:20 34:7 Meeting [great - iconography] 39:19 41:2,4 42:22 51:3,19 52:1 54:2 60:2 66:14 74:9 75:5 95:10 greatest 19:11 45:8 greg 3:9 10:6 88:4 grief 61:6 grit 78:2 ground 17:3 group 8:12 13:10,13 60:18 60:22 grueling 41:19 guard 24:12 28:13,18 63:5 63:6,8,21 66:9 guessing 73:3 guide 55:22 guidebook 55:8 guided 52:11 h half 76:8,14 80:6,12 halls 17:22 23:18 hamilton 14:7 95:8 hanchock 3:6 9:10,12 hand 5:7 31:12 36:12 43:17 59:1 77:7 82:7 94:1 April 17, 2024 Page 13 handing 87:18 happening 58:4 happens 94:16 happily 100:9 happy 15:9 16:6 27:9 74:8 75:9 harcourt 2:8 6:10 36:12 50:21 51:1 hard 25:8 66:12 hear 37:19 43:5 54:17 62:10 77:3,4 99:1 heard 66:7 hearing 11:8 11:14 heartfelt 27:16 hearts 18:18 helen 102:2,15 helicopter 50:18 help 15:17 42:15,17 47:20 helpful 63:1 84:3 helps 53:9 98:13 hendrix's 79:16 hereto 101:15 102:11 heritage 3:14 3:16 11:2,4 18:18 20:4,8,9 21:3,8,18 92:8 heroes 45:4 hesitate 15:18 hey 48:22 hi 35:14 54:17 64:15 high 88:13,17 89:8,20 90:5 90:17 highlight 60:14 highly 14:15 historian 46:4 51:3 historical 12:18 44:18 historically 93:1 96:17 history 2:11 6:15 12:21 15:11 19:20 21:10,13,15 22:12,13 25:1 25:4 26:12 33:18 37:12 44:22 47:1,3 53:13 69:7 76:17 hit 48:6 77:13 hoard 2:19 7:7 7:9 31:13,15 31:16,19 67:8 67:9 70:1 80:21,21 83:15 83:17,18 84:9 86:5 97:14,14 97:18 98:16 99:18 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 hold 49:12 holds 68:7 home 55:7 honestly 60:10 69:10 honor 13:6 15:15 18:21 19:16 23:22 29:4 33:22 34:11,13 35:8 44:22 50:4 79:12 honorably 13:21 honored 16:7 honoring 13:15 hope 25:13 55:20 92:7 hopefully 5:5 house 2:9,12 6:11,18 huge 67:16 69:11 humanitarian 17:4 humor 12:10 hundreds 25:2 i icon 73:7 iconic 18:14 24:18 25:6 37:11 39:16,18 52:21 64:19 65:14 85:7 iconography 70:22 72:21 73:6 Meeting [idea - issues] idea 51:20 58:21 62:7 65:19 82:11 92:14 ideas 13:11 63:4 identical 81:14 identified 38:13 identify 48:1 85:11 ii 18:12 25:10 45:6 image 24:12,16 25:11,12,16,19 26:1,2,6,21,22 30:19 32:8,13 37:11,12 38:10 38:20 39:12,15 39:16,18 40:8 52:22 53:11 61:20 64:17,21 65:5,14 67:11 68:22 69:3,9 69:15 70:3,4,6 70:10,22 73:16 73:17 74:20 75:2,4,7 77:17 82:5,18 imagery 30:1 73:10 images 33:9 39:19 45:13,13 45:20 50:5 51:12 52:18 61:7 64:18 65:17,19 66:1 71:13 74:17 April 17, 2024 Page 14 imagine 25:8 immediate 67:22 immediately 24:19 imo 73:11 impact 25:8 impassioned 92:6 implication 94:15 importance 64:10 important 19:4 43:10 44:17 46:13 51:6 52:12 55:3,21 56:10 59:21,21 63:20 79:5 85:7,8 importantly 43:14 impressed 92:5 95:7 impression 98:6 improve 22:10 93:21 97:12 inappropriate 77:11 inch 14:6,7 include 29:20 82:2 93:5 included 44:19 includes 7:15 19:18 32:10 91:22 including 13:5 18:6 91:17 increase 76:21 incredible 30:13 32:3 64:1 indicate 8:16 96:5 indicated 74:21 90:21 individuals 75:1 industry 85:2 information 84:19 innovative 18:9 input 14:13 inscription 29:12 93:11,14 inscriptions 28:7 29:3,19 49:18 97:1,6 insight 14:16 47:19 80:4 85:9 insights 79:21 inspire 58:4 inspired 14:13 instantly 26:4 56:22 instructor 39:21 insurrection 18:2 integrity 97:7 interest 13:22 42:17 69:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 interested 69:6 101:15 102:12 interesting 38:3 59:17 63:3 72:12 88:7 90:21 interests 17:20 intergovernm... 2:4 3:12 10:15 international 84:22 interpretation 77:22 78:8,10 79:4 interrupt 57:6 intragovernm... 10:4 intricate 63:16 introduce 30:11 invalidating 79:8 invested 79:18 invitation 15:20 invited 23:8,9 invoke 25:21 invokes 26:7 involved 96:19 involving 37:5 iraq 18:22 19:2 irrelevant 48:19 island 18:14 issue 67:16 71:1 76:13 issues 11:10 54:21 91:15 Meeting [issuing - korea] issuing 42:12 item 92:15 96:9 items 92:14 iwo 18:14 25:5 25:22 29:19 30:8 31:20 32:8,14 39:16 48:16 49:14 52:18 53:11 54:6,8 64:21 65:2,10 67:10 68:22 69:3 70:15 71:9,13 73:17 77:17 81:5,15 j j 43:20 james 3:15 11:2 20:6 36:22 janet 4:9 7:20 92:17 93:11 95:12 japan 25:18 jennifer 2:3 3:13 8:6,10 10:3,22 20:8 21:4 92:4 jiggs 36:3 jima 18:14 25:5 25:22 29:19 30:9 31:20 32:9,14 39:16 48:16 49:14 52:18 53:11 54:6,8 64:21 65:2,10 67:11 April 17, 2024 Page 15 68:22 69:3 70:16 71:9,13 73:11,17 77:17 81:5 jimas 81:15 jimi 79:16 job 1:20 19:15 20:16 21:12 22:11 27:20 41:14 42:22 43:1 44:21 95:10 joe 9:20 25:7 52:19 77:6,9 79:20 80:2,22 84:14 85:8 95:10 98:2 john 2:12 6:17 35:11,12,14 37:7 45:7 64:14,15 66:15 82:7,9 85:14 98:18,19 99:2 join 14:17 joined 10:19,22 16:6 joining 11:7,21 joseph 3:8 8:3 9:19 77:10 98:3 joy 11:15 15:8 joyful 78:18 jr 13:2 jumbled 50:6 juncture 77:11 jungles 18:20 junk 42:20 juxtaposition 57:18 k keep 35:1 47:22 55:12 59:20 keeping 55:21 63:19 kellen 2:19 7:7 31:12,16 67:3 67:7,8 74:7 75:17 76:22 80:20,21 81:21 83:18 86:5,13 87:16 97:13,14 98:4 99:17 kid 64:22 killing 62:7 kind 26:7 27:19 34:21 36:7 38:9 60:19 65:19 67:14 69:19 70:8,12 71:3 71:15,18 72:7 72:14,15 73:9 73:15 74:2,4 81:3,11,12,16 81:19 98:9 kindergarten 44:8 kinds 39:22 knew 15:4,7 know 16:2 21:5 21:14 22:5 31:8,19,21 32:17 34:2,4,5 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 35:16 36:19 37:4,14 38:17 38:18 39:7 41:16,17,18,21 41:22 42:2,9 42:11,14,16,19 43:1,1,12,21 44:1 45:14,18 46:7,9 51:17 54:1,11,12 57:16 58:10,11 58:17,18 59:2 59:9,10,11,11 59:13,14,16,18 60:2,3,4,4,4,8 60:10,11,16,17 60:18,20,21 61:1,1,2,5,9,13 61:14,14,21 62:1,1,2,8,8 66:11 68:13,21 70:2,7 71:8,18 72:2,9,10 74:2 75:6,16,17,20 75:20,21 76:3 76:5,6,14,18 76:18,20 77:12 79:11 80:14,22 82:4 83:3 84:16 95:5,7,9 95:10,11 knowing 69:6 knowledge 101:10 102:6 knows 54:8 77:16 korea 18:17 45:6 Meeting [kristie - major] kristie 2:21 8:17 l labeled 72:19 ladies 14:17 land 34:1,17 35:3,4 71:7 large 55:3 82:18 largely 69:2 late 45:18 law 16:16 44:4 lead 21:4 leader 2:13,15 2:17 6:18,21 7:2 leaders 18:8 leaning 18:17 learn 39:4 73:22 learned 38:20 70:7 learning 15:9 learns 44:12 leave 95:12 leaves 39:10 legacies 93:2 legacy 96:18 legal 3:9 10:7 31:11 33:21 34:3 legion 63:13 legislative 2:3 3:12 10:3,15 lejeune 45:7 lends 38:9 April 17, 2024 Page 16 lettering 71:15 letters 97:20,21 letting 20:17 level 81:4 lew 94:7 liaison 2:4 8:5 10:4 20:9 46:15,16 53:7 81:13 83:1 liaison's 74:8 75:10 liaisons 10:19 28:16 29:6,14 29:22 30:8 31:6,17 33:14 36:19 46:8 50:13,15,18 51:2 52:8 55:2 66:17 68:13 77:3 83:9 87:3 91:5,15,21 92:4 100:5 liberty 13:12 14:10 28:8 library 12:21 liked 33:4 49:4 65:12 68:18,19 75:4 likes 62:6,7 limiting 79:6 line 30:15 56:8 list 2:2 3:2 15:11 listen 41:4 58:9 listening 6:4 33:16 little 21:14 27:18 30:11,19 30:20 32:16 33:16 44:16 53:5 54:5,21 66:8 68:17 71:20 72:2,6,9 72:9,22 73:14 80:5 81:8,19 82:5,19,20,20 84:6 98:14,14 lives 35:22 livestreaming 5:21 locations 45:17 long 38:21 71:4 73:16 85:4,4 longevity 58:2 look 11:8 15:15 33:9 38:17 40:22 42:7,8,8 44:9 46:5 56:18 57:1,2 60:8 61:21,22 63:11 67:17 69:10 72:3 80:9 97:21 98:5 looked 25:15 45:19,20 looking 32:6 38:12 52:10 53:12 55:8 56:6,8 66:7 73:6 74:10 76:2 99:11 lose 58:18 loses 58:18 lot 41:2 49:6 50:12 58:9,14 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 58:14 61:3,22 63:15 69:5,7 lots 45:4 loud 75:21 love 53:22 59:4 75:17 low 98:8 lower 98:12 loyal 11:17 lukeman 3:15 11:3,5 20:7,13 20:22 24:9 27:18 28:1 30:17 31:4 32:2 34:7 35:4 35:19 38:1 40:15 41:7,11 43:9,19 45:3 46:19,22 47:18 51:2 62:22 74:21 82:1 92:5,10 m made 34:2 45:1 52:22 58:14 63:12 76:22 79:18 84:14 90:22 magnification 61:10 main 30:1 major 3:15 11:2,5 17:4 18:21 20:6,11 20:13 24:9 27:14,18 28:1 30:17 31:4 Meeting [major - memorial] 32:2 34:7 35:4 35:19 38:1 40:15 41:7,11 43:9 45:3 46:19,22 47:18 49:13 51:1 74:20 82:1 92:5,7,10 majority 2:14 6:21 make 14:21,22 24:2 28:17 30:20,21 43:2 58:13 61:13,14 61:17 67:14 75:12 77:11 79:11 82:10 89:19 90:18 91:2 99:6 makes 64:11 91:9 making 42:13 52:15 79:8 90:5 mammal 99:7 management 2:22 8:21 manager 3:4,5 3:6,7 manger 9:17 mantra 26:8 march 13:14 marine 3:14,16 3:20 4:6 7:18 10:10,21 11:1 11:4 16:14,19 17:6,9,14 18:4 18:8,10 19:3,9 April 17, 2024 Page 17 19:10,11,14,15 19:22 20:2,4,6 20:7,9,15,20 21:1,3,8,10,12 21:18,20,22 22:7,12,14,19 22:21 23:2,4 23:10,11,15,16 24:1,2,12,15 24:17,20,20,22 25:3 26:4,8,11 26:15,16,19,22 27:7 28:13,14 28:18,22 29:1 29:11 32:4,19 33:18 34:9,10 34:12,17,21 35:9,20,22 36:4,7 37:2 38:19,19,21,22 39:2,4,8,8,9,17 39:19 43:11,15 44:2,3,4,7,12 45:4,8,11,14 45:15 46:10,12 47:2,6,9,10 48:12 51:8,11 51:22 55:8 56:1,10 72:16 74:13,15 75:2 92:8 marines 16:22 17:9,12,18 18:16,21 21:14 23:4,6,8,9 24:13 25:12,15 26:6,17 27:8 27:12 29:20 35:17 38:10,10 38:13,16,20 39:15 43:21 45:5,9,12 46:18,21 47:8 47:13 52:9,13 52:14 53:13 55:5,19 56:7 57:20 58:2 69:7 71:15 73:21 mark 60:1 82:18 88:18 market 58:15 58:20 59:6 74:15 mascot 35:18 35:20,21 36:7 36:8 82:20 matter 32:16 51:9 matthew 1:19 101:2,17 mcnally 2:21 8:17,19 11:19 12:1,12,13 mean 20:14 38:17 60:15 62:3 64:21 66:6 71:21 72:22 73:14 75:18 98:15 meaning 19:19 meaningful 93:6 97:3 means 34:18 58:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 meant 55:16 79:12 measured 12:8 medal 4:9,11 7:21 8:1,4 13:5 14:7,8,10 55:2 92:18,22 96:12 96:16,20 97:22 99:4 medallic 12:16 13:3 medals 14:3,3 14:6,15 93:1,3 94:6 96:17 media 8:12 medium 67:21 68:15 70:10 71:16 meeting 1:2 5:3 5:11,17,19,20 6:2 8:4,8 10:19 13:13 100:8,18 100:19,21 meetings 100:7 megan 3:3 9:1 16:17 27:21 92:19 96:13 member 3:18 6:14 7:5,12,16 12:15 13:6,21 63:21 83:20 91:17 member's 14:9 members 6:3,6 8:7 47:22 83:20 100:5 memorial 26:3 Meeting [men - national] men 19:12 30:16 menna 3:8 9:19 9:22 77:6,10 77:10,15 84:14 98:3,3 mention 12:10 mentioned 23:1 25:6 44:3 69:18 70:9 81:7 84:18 merit 53:22 71:2 message 37:5 53:19 81:11 86:2 met 15:10 meuse 18:7 mexican 17:21 mexico 17:22 mic 15:1 31:14 82:8 97:16 98:20 michael 2:14 6:20 9:16 43:20 microphone 5:14 35:13 mike 8:11 48:2 48:3 49:7 50:10 51:15 52:6 61:16 66:5 million 40:3 76:8,15 mind 24:8 77:1 91:13 98:2 April 17, 2024 Page 18 mindful 43:3 minds 18:18 91:10 minority 2:12 2:16 6:18 7:2 mint 1:12 2:4 2:21 3:19 4:11 8:1,5,15,18 10:10 11:9 13:16 14:4 20:4 22:18 36:22 46:17 51:17 52:16 59:6 63:12 92:22 93:7 96:12,16,17 97:3 mintages 42:8 minted 22:18 37:21 minute 63:14 minutes 22:1 48:1 59:20 87:20,21 93:19 misidentifica... 38:4 misidentified 37:7,9 misplaced 94:9 missed 12:7 mission 19:6 21:9 22:17 missions 17:4 mistaken 63:4 mnuchin 94:8 moderated 1:6 modern 28:22 modification 95:20 modifications 91:2 modifiers 94:4 94:10 moment 87:3 92:3 moments 11:20 money 21:19 22:9,20 42:5 42:14 43:2 58:13 61:3 montezuma 17:22 23:19 moran 2:14 6:20,22 48:2,4 48:9 49:9,11 52:6 morning 5:2,10 5:16 8:9 12:13 52:5 92:6 mosquitoes 60:8 motion 62:6,8 66:17 67:4 75:13,15 82:10 82:15,22 83:8 83:15 84:2,7 84:12,13 85:13 85:19 86:6,7 86:14,15,16,21 87:2,6,13 96:4 96:8 99:13 100:2,9 motions 95:16 motto 34:9 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 mountains 97:4 move 28:5 56:5 74:22 89:3 95:18 99:14 moved 100:10 movie 37:4 60:1 moving 16:11 28:19,20 29:8 29:17 30:2 49:3 89:15 90:3,10 multiple 87:1,8 87:11 96:6 99:22 100:16 museum 21:19 21:22 22:6,10 22:21 23:13,14 25:20 42:18 47:3 92:8,11 museums 51:4 musical 81:11 mutually 42:6 n n 2:1 3:1 4:1,1 5:1 name 6:3,7 8:17 36:3 names 38:17 narrative 81:12 nation 18:4 nation's 17:1 national 13:5 14:3 21:19,21 22:6,20 Meeting [nature - opportunity] nature 57:22 naval 17:18 navy 17:13 nay 87:10,11 87:15 neat 71:3,5 necessary 18:12 30:12 need 11:10 37:18 48:16 52:6 61:20 66:18 93:19 99:6 needed 55:11 57:15 83:8 needs 46:13 neither 101:11 102:7 nemeth 78:22 nephews 55:8 never 39:9,10 61:8 75:8 new 5:5 70:3,8 79:13,18 83:5 nice 42:12 68:20 nicer 62:17 nicholas 23:5 nickel 44:10 49:2 niece 55:7 nonprofit 21:3 norm 79:1 norman 78:22 north 17:17 notable 18:13 notary 101:18 April 17, 2024 Page 19 note 10:18 notice 19:5 noticed 35:15 novel 77:20 78:2 november 17:7 number 66:5 88:16 90:4 numbers 80:9 numerous 14:14 17:18 18:3 79:7 numismatic 2:5 7:12 14:2 53:5 numismatics 2:18 7:5 15:11 numismatist 44:6 85:1 numismatists 85:11 o o 4:1 5:1 object 61:18 objective 60:5 observation 77:12 observations 12:9 93:21 observe 68:4 obverse 16:12 16:18 24:11 25:5 26:5,17 28:15,21 29:6 29:7,18,20,21 30:2 31:6 40:14 46:6 50:14,15 51:15 54:4,4 56:15 57:9 61:17 62:16 64:8 69:22 70:1,17 71:3 73:4,12 74:19 75:4 79:1 88:9,9,10 88:10,11,12,14 88:14,15 89:4 89:5,7,7,9,9,10 89:11,11,12,12 89:13,14 90:3 90:4,4,6,6,7,8 90:9,9 91:16 92:16 93:10,18 96:11,22 97:10 97:19 obverses 28:11 28:21 29:17 31:20 obviously 74:14 75:3 78:19 october 12:14 offended 91:12 offensive 18:7 offer 16:9 office 2:22 3:12 8:21 10:14 47:6 officer 3:13,16 11:1,3 101:2 official 19:17 29:10 33:18 34:9,10,13,14 35:7,18,20 99:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 oh 5:13 31:15 32:6 34:16 57:12 75:14 77:8 82:8 83:17 okay 24:9 31:15,17 33:10 36:17 41:10 48:9 49:10 57:5,14,17 65:15 67:1,4 72:5 77:5,15 86:20 90:19 98:21 99:2,12 older 44:8 65:4 72:1 once 39:8,9 44:3 50:7 56:16 66:20 84:2 ones 32:7 41:2 53:3 54:6 55:14 65:3 67:21 68:2 81:7 83:21 operating 3:13 11:1 operations 17:5,16,19 opinions 14:16 opportunities 69:4 opportunity 20:19 23:21 24:2 40:2,4,7 64:3,7 67:18 72:1,2 73:5 84:16 91:22 Meeting [opposed - please] opposed 32:10 84:1 86:6 87:9 96:7 100:1 option 46:14 order 4:3 5:10 5:16 11:14 56:9 organization 21:7 41:14 42:5,12,17 58:10,19 organizations 58:13 original 38:5 50:1 84:17 origins 17:6 outcome 25:10 54:2 101:16 102:12 outfit 36:4 outside 22:1 24:14 outstanding 11:18 overall 56:18 84:22 overcame 25:17 overcome 76:11,13 own 22:14 55:21 76:8,15 p p 2:1,1 3:1,1 5:1 p.m. 6:1 April 17, 2024 Page 20 pacific 18:12 packaging 59:5 59:7 page 4:2 pages 49:6 paging 48:4 parades 36:1 parker 59:22 part 17:15,18 19:1 22:19 33:21 38:4 47:2 51:22 53:4 55:3 84:10 91:18 92:21 96:15 participating 41:16 particular 51:11 56:2 82:5 particularly 55:15 65:6 parties 101:12 101:14 102:8 102:11 passed 41:20 passionate 27:19 69:12 past 47:4 patience 5:4 paul 8:10 pay 83:20 92:7 pdf 71:4 peace 19:6 peers 70:8 pentagon 47:5 people 15:10 19:12 22:4 23:9 24:19 39:5 40:2 41:17,18 42:19 45:7 58:15,18 59:8 60:7,10 60:11,14 61:2 61:3,11 62:7 63:7 69:6,12 70:5,5 72:10 75:18,19 76:3 76:4,8,15 78:5 79:12 80:7,14 80:17,17,18 85:1 percent 88:18 90:6,18 perfect 15:2 77:5 97:17 permanent 17:15 person 10:22 16:4 45:11 56:2 57:3 68:13 69:5 personal 45:13 personally 49:3 62:16 perspective 32:14 34:5 77:18 79:10 persuade 37:19 40:11 62:14 persuasiveness 37:20 peter 1:6 2:5 5:14 7:11 48:5 95:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 philadelphia 17:7 23:7 philippine 18:2 philosophy 81:16 photo 25:6 38:14 photograph 37:6 52:20 54:9 photographs 38:12 phrase 19:18 phrases 33:17 34:6 phrasing 73:10 picked 74:10 picture 38:7,8 38:18 piece 32:11 67:17 68:7,11 68:16 76:9 pieces 68:22 69:7 pirates 17:16 placed 71:16 places 18:3 44:18 plain 71:22 planchet 60:9 62:4,4 planted 39:6 play 79:14 please 6:6 8:16 14:17 15:18 36:20 47:22 52:3 77:14 79:8 86:21 Meeting [please - program] 87:6 96:5 99:21 pleased 14:11 pleasure 12:3 pluribus 28:9 plus 12:7 point 25:11 59:10,21 63:10 63:10 64:18 65:15,17 70:13 76:10,22 81:9 84:14,15 88:17 91:1,3 pointed 51:15 points 68:21 71:6 88:9,10 88:10,11,11,12 88:14,15,15,17 88:19,20,21,21 88:22,22 89:1 89:4,4,5,5,6,6 89:7,7,8,9,10 89:10,11,12,12 89:13,13,14,17 89:17,18,19,19 89:21,22,22 90:1,2,2,4,5,6 90:7,7,8,9,10 90:12,12,13,13 90:14,15,16,16 90:17 policy 19:4 pop 68:11 79:11 98:14 popping 70:10 71:14 72:22 74:2 April 17, 2024 Page 21 pops 68:14 70:18 popular 80:7 84:4 portfolio 16:12 57:8 64:1 68:3 74:10 75:10 90:22 92:20,22 93:8,17 95:7 96:14,16,20 97:10 portfolios 28:5 74:19 portions 32:12 portis 78:1 portrait 42:1 42:11 93:10 94:21 96:22 portraits 41:22 63:18 93:3 portray 45:10 positioned 56:17 possibility 66:22 91:17 possibly 92:9 posted 100:19 potential 51:11 79:6 powerful 78:19 prefer 32:7 preference 25:5 33:11 39:18 40:12 50:15 preferences 11:9 24:6,10 28:6 50:19 53:7 74:8 75:10 87:4 preferred 28:15 29:6,13 29:21 32:9 93:9 96:21 premier 17:1 prepared 36:20 102:3 presence 8:16 12:6 present 6:6,9 6:12,16,19,22 7:3,6,9 8:19,22 9:3,6,9,12,15 9:18,22 10:5,8 10:12,16 14:11 16:18 88:5 92:20 96:13 presentation 11:15 62:22 64:8 92:6 presenting 11:20 13:17 presents 28:13 28:22 37:5 preservation 22:12 preserve 21:9 21:12 president 3:15 11:3 12:17 20:7 41:21 president's 22:13 presidential 8:3 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 press 8:7 41:9 92:14 prettier 62:17 pretty 62:1 66:9 prevail 18:11 prices 42:8 pride 39:6 prides 19:10 prior 100:8 101:5 privy 82:18 probably 21:17 49:13 60:22 69:18 78:15 85:13,14 problem 10:2 65:11 67:9 68:9 proceed 84:6 94:21 proceeding 102:4 proceedings 8:5 101:3,5,6,9 102:6 proceeds 22:16 22:19 43:12 process 41:19 42:15 91:6,13 produced 14:4 37:3 93:1 96:17 produces 37:1 product 42:18 program 4:7 7:19 10:22 13:3 16:15,15 Meeting [program - recognize] 16:20,22 19:22 20:10 27:12 31:12 44:11 65:21 66:13 programs 5:6 10:20 22:14 80:10 proof 80:11 proper 46:11 proposals 14:1 protecting 17:20 proud 23:11,15 24:2 26:22 27:8 29:12 33:5 34:1,15 34:22 64:11 proven 42:7,9 provide 13:11 provided 14:13 public 1:2 2:7 2:19,20 4:4 5:3 5:19 6:4,8 7:8 7:11,16 8:7 11:16 13:18,20 13:21 14:11 16:16 51:6 69:13 70:20 73:20 74:15 92:8 100:5,8 100:19 101:18 puller 44:15 45:5 purdie 2:20 7:10 54:16,17 54:19,20 57:9 57:12,17 April 17, 2024 Page 22 purpose 42:3,5 push 80:5 put 15:19 19:12 66:2 70:19 73:5,18 73:19 76:7 82:16 putting 65:10 69:10 76:16 q qualified 2:5 2:10,18 6:14 7:5,12 12:15 101:7 quality 78:14 quantico 22:1 question 30:7 31:13,16 33:14 34:7 36:18,19 37:10,12 39:11 46:3 47:1 62:12 64:16 66:16 85:6 97:15,18 questions 27:9 31:11 46:7 47:17 64:1 quick 75:11 85:21 quite 68:1,5,12 68:19 70:16 quorum 7:14 quotes 93:6 r r 2:1 3:1 5:1 8:3 raise 17:8 21:19 23:3 42:5 68:8 raised 22:8 31:12 43:17 77:7 82:7 83:19 91:15 94:1 raisers 38:5,14 raising 18:15 22:20 23:6 25:5,12,22 29:19 32:8,12 32:14 39:16 40:1,5 77:17 range 19:6 rapid 17:2 rapidly 19:5 rather 66:2 82:5 razzle 98:14 read 33:20 realize 60:7 really 12:2,8 16:3 20:18 32:16 37:18 39:8 42:7,15 44:20 45:19 47:20 48:16 49:17 51:19 54:11 55:13 57:17 58:3,20 59:14,16,21 60:9 61:7,11 61:19 63:15 65:11 68:7 69:9,14 70:18 71:7,16 73:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 75:4 76:12 77:2 79:4,14 80:13 81:12 82:11,14 85:9 92:5 93:18 95:6,9,9 reason 65:8 81:1,2 82:1 reasons 32:9 82:6 rebellion 18:3 received 13:4 88:9,9,10,11 88:11,12,14,15 88:15,16,19,20 88:20,21,22,22 89:1,4,4,5,5,6 89:6,6,7,8,9,10 89:10,11,11,12 89:13,13,14,16 89:17,17,18,18 89:19,21,22,22 90:1,1,2,4,4,6 90:7,7,8,9,10 90:11,12,13,13 90:14,15,16,16 recent 13:12 63:12 80:10 recess 87:20 recessing 57:3 recipient 58:19 recognition 11:17 13:6 recognizable 32:13 33:3 45:9 56:22 recognize 23:22 24:19 Meeting [recognize - reverse] 26:21 74:19 88:4 recognized 34:11 recognizes 13:20 26:4 recollection 84:20 recommend 62:5 70:14 73:17 82:15 91:1,21 95:19 recommenda... 43:4 46:6 48:12 55:15 61:10 66:7,16 83:9 86:3 recommenda... 13:11 50:13 51:13 83:1 87:5 91:22 recommended 2:8,12,14,16 6:11,18,21 7:2 65:17 66:13 record 8:14 10:18 15:19 33:16 48:2 53:18 66:19 88:1 101:9 102:5 recorded 6:2 101:6 recording 101:8 102:4 recruit 39:7 recruiting 32:21 April 17, 2024 Page 23 red 15:21 42:7 reduced 101:7 reestablished 17:14 referred 57:7 reflects 52:15 regard 14:15 74:5 regards 43:20 register 100:8 100:20 regular 18:19 reintroduce 6:5 related 14:1 101:11 102:7 relative 68:2 101:13 102:10 relevant 44:17 relief 98:8 remains 19:3 remake 84:17 remarkable 70:21 remember 55:6 67:1 remind 6:2 47:21 reminder 6:1 rene 37:9 repeat 64:17,20 65:8,14 replacements 59:5 replicating 68:9 replication 71:1 replications 52:19 report 86:9 reported 1:19 represent 24:21 38:19 51:10,20 56:9 57:21 58:5 74:14 75:1 representation 46:12 55:16 representative 55:22 represented 28:18 56:6,7 60:18 73:3 representing 2:7,19,20 6:7 7:8,11 74:13 represents 24:16 30:15 56:21 81:13 reputation 19:8 request 29:22 30:8 31:5 requested 28:16 65:16 91:16 required 28:7 29:15 requirements 33:21 resolved 17:8 respect 77:15 respected 14:16 43:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 respond 6:6 19:5 responded 23:17 response 17:1 rest 16:2 54:14 restaurant 23:13 restrike 37:20 58:21 59:12 67:10 75:22 76:11,12 restriking 39:12 40:6 75:22 76:1 result 49:19 results 88:5 rethought 64:2 retired 20:6 21:1 43:21 retriever 97:5 99:4 reverse 16:13 16:18 26:17,18 28:19 29:9,13 29:13,15 30:3 32:1 48:13 53:18,20 71:18 72:3,4,12,15 72:18,19 73:5 73:8,8,11,13 79:2 88:16,16 88:19,20,20,21 88:21,22 89:1 89:16,16,17,18 89:18,19,21,21 89:22 90:1,1,2 90:11,11,12,12 Meeting [reverse - sculptures] 90:13,14,15,15 90:16,17 92:16 93:5,13,18 94:3 96:11 97:3,10 reverse's 73:7 reverses 28:19 29:8 30:3 31:21 48:11 64:4 66:10,11 68:17 72:11 89:15 90:10 review 4:5,8,10 7:17,19,21 92:15 96:10 reviewed 8:4 14:8 16:12 63:22 reviewing 10:20 revolutionary 17:11 47:14 ribbon 19:18 richer 78:18 rifleman 26:8,9 26:9 riflemen 50:1 rifles 24:14 right 8:13 11:13 15:1,3 16:11 28:4 30:6,18 33:9 37:10 38:3,11 40:1,16 41:6 42:6 43:16 46:19 47:10,17 50:9,20 52:4 58:7,12 59:1,3 April 17, 2024 Page 24 59:4,7,15,16 60:2,6 61:2,18 62:7,13 67:6 71:4 74:6 75:18 77:18 78:17 79:17 83:14 84:11 85:10,17,18 86:4,20 87:5 87:12 88:3 92:1,2,12 95:5 96:8,9 98:17 99:9 100:3,11 risk 59:22 60:3 road 25:20 roberts 78:16 robin 3:18 4:4 7:17 11:17,20 11:21 12:1,14 13:4,7 14:12 14:18,19,22 16:1 roger 3:4 9:4 roles 19:7 roll 4:3 15:21 room 15:1 rosenthal 25:7 52:19 54:9 run 5:22 russell 3:5 9:7 s s 2:1 3:1 4:1 5:1 safe 91:11 sags 58:20 sake 66:20 sale 76:10 sales 41:15 61:22 64:18 80:8,9,18 81:1 salmon 3:18 4:4 7:17 11:17 12:14,17 14:9 14:12,12 15:3 salmon's 13:13 samuel 23:5 saunders 2:12 6:17,19 35:14 35:14 36:10 64:14,15,15 67:1,4 82:8,9 85:16 98:19,19 98:21 99:2,2 savage 18:11 saw 12:7 saying 34:19 63:17 84:10 86:22 87:6 96:5 99:21 100:15 sayings 73:2 says 60:2 scarinci 2:16 7:1,3 36:18 40:10 41:4,8 41:13 46:3,18 46:20 47:15 58:8,9 75:12 75:16 84:13 86:11,19 91:4 95:4 scene 60:3 82:3 82:13 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 schedule 92:13 scheduled 5:22 scholars 85:1 school 70:7 score 65:22 66:17,18 83:22 84:1 85:15 86:6,8,10,14 86:17 87:13,17 87:18 scored 90:20 scores 66:19 88:8 90:21 scoring 65:19 88:5 screen 9:20 12:4 screens 48:10 52:7 script 77:20 78:11 79:2 sculpt 95:11 sculpted 78:22 sculpting 77:21 78:15 sculptor 78:10 79:5 sculptor's 79:10 sculptural 78:10 sculpturally 81:14 sculpture 12:15 13:2,5 77:12 78:20 sculptures 12:18 Meeting [sea - silver] sea 17:3 34:1 34:17 35:3,4,6 seals 93:6 sean 59:22 second 5:19 10:1 17:7 53:17 57:6 63:10 67:13 83:11,13 96:1 96:2 99:16,18 100:12,13 secondary 43:12 58:15 seconds 100:15 secretaries 93:2 94:15 secretary 4:9 7:21 13:22 14:7 86:2 87:5 91:9 92:17 93:1,4,11,15 94:5,6,6,7,8,9 94:11,13,17,19 95:13,19 secretary's 93:7,9 see 9:20 12:3 16:7 22:2 25:20 26:8,21 31:12 40:6,7 41:16 43:17 45:12 48:22 49:5,6,15 50:2 51:11,21 52:20 57:2 59:17 61:8 62:13 82:7 94:1 97:19 April 17, 2024 Page 25 seed 39:6 seeing 53:9 58:5 99:20 seem 97:20 seemed 12:5 33:1 seems 73:4 100:4 seen 70:5,6 75:8 93:10 sees 26:2 select 31:6 selected 74:11 74:18 91:3 selection 47:19 74:12 82:2,4 self 19:13 sell 42:10,13,18 58:12,17 62:2 62:2 seller 61:4 selling 76:18 sells 80:12 semper 19:18 33:22 34:8 35:7 senate 2:14,16 6:21 7:2 send 86:1 sending 59:6 sends 43:20 senior 3:3,4,9 3:11 8:11 9:2,5 10:7,14 sense 30:22 58:3 64:11 84:3 sergeant 36:3 sergeants 75:5 series 53:10,20 69:17,20 serve 39:10 served 12:4,15 13:9,21 18:1 45:6 55:6 serves 17:1 service 4:4 7:16 11:16,18 13:16 13:18,20 14:9 14:12,18 16:7 19:12 21:16 24:3 43:22 51:3 52:1 55:1 72:16 79:12 91:17 services 27:3,6 session 5:22 7:15 set 20:20 22:17 23:21 25:3 53:10 65:7 seven 85:2 several 13:4 32:11 51:18 shading 56:19 57:3 97:20 shadow 98:4 98:11 shadowing 97:20 share 21:9 69:15 shared 15:14 sharp 12:8 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 sheets 87:18 88:6 ship 50:17 shops 42:18 shores 17:16 23:18 short 12:5 19:5 73:16 shoulders 25:17 shout 71:6 shoutout 66:4 show 39:20,22 45:9 49:1 51:19 70:4,9 70:13 showed 32:11 showing 55:9 shows 49:22 67:17 72:16,17 shuffle 52:6 shutdown 65:13 side 22:3 50:4 sight 82:19 signature 101:16 102:14 signed 41:21 signify 55:16 86:21 87:6 99:21 100:15 silver 14:8,10 25:4 28:20,21 29:8,9,13,21 48:6,12 49:3 49:20,22 50:3 50:14 54:4,4 57:10,12 67:11 Meeting [silver - stole] 68:9,16,18,18 69:8,17,21,21 69:22 70:1,17 71:8 72:12,19 73:8,18 74:3 75:4 76:1,8,10 80:11,13 81:5 81:18 89:3,3 89:15,15,16,17 similar 31:21 45:17 81:3 simple 62:9 71:18,22 simply 91:4 94:11 sir 24:7 six 38:13 size 49:2 55:15 60:8 61:15,19 67:21 68:6 82:17 sizing 67:16 skills 101:10 102:6 skip 48:11 skirmish 24:22 skull 98:13 slides 49:5 slight 53:2 small 18:17 30:18,22 35:1 48:17 61:15,19 63:16 67:17 68:7 93:17 97:9 smaller 27:4 smallest 27:2,5 April 17, 2024 Page 26 smedley 36:2 society's 13:5 somebody 45:14 67:15 someday 16:10 song 79:14,19 soon 16:10 26:21 92:8 sophisticated 78:12 sorely 12:7 sorry 5:15 26:17 49:2 54:20 57:12,16 69:21 70:1 83:18 89:16 90:11 92:17 sort 52:14,20 sounding 59:22 60:3 sounds 79:17 south 22:1 southwest 1:13 space 27:3 53:5 spaced 56:4 spacing 56:16 spangled 79:16 spanish 18:2 speak 16:5 98:2 speaker 2:8 6:11 speakers 87:1,8 87:11 96:6 99:22 100:16 speaking 6:3 48:2 72:11 speaks 68:6 special 40:1 specialist 3:3 3:11 9:2,5,8,11 9:14 10:14 specially 2:5,10 2:18 6:14 7:5 specific 52:22 53:7 55:21 68:13 81:22 82:6,6 specifically 12:15 13:9 52:19 54:10 94:4 98:15 spend 93:19 spending 61:3 spent 74:9 spice 73:15 spire 22:4 25:21 spoke 74:4 spotlights 29:18 staff 8:15 32:10 46:17 49:16 78:16 93:7 94:19 97:19 100:5 stafford 2:22 8:20,22 9:18 16:17,21 24:7 27:21 28:4 30:10 35:3 69:22 92:19,21 94:18 96:12,15 98:1 stakeholders 98:6 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 stamp 64:22 65:1 stamps 65:3 stand 25:16 26:5 87:4 standing 15:20 stands 26:15 38:20 100:18 star 79:16 start 5:15 11:11 60:12,13 67:13 88:8 starting 28:11 state 44:5 states 3:20 4:6 7:18 10:10,21 14:4,14 16:13 16:19,22 17:14 19:9 20:2,6 28:9 29:11 42:21 51:8 63:12 85:3 92:22 93:7,15 94:5,11,16 96:16 97:2 99:7 statue 47:7 status 33:17 34:4 stays 39:7 steel 22:4 steeped 37:13 step 91:6 stick 71:21 sticker 34:19 sticks 25:21 stole 82:13 Meeting April 17, 2024 [stopping - thank] stopping 28:5 store 42:21 stores 42:19 stories 52:9 story 20:15 26:13 35:18 73:16 strategy 41:5 streamers 24:21 25:3 street 1:13 36:1 striking 61:18 67:22 68:1,5 strong 74:20 86:2 strongest 74:18 struck 66:6 structure 22:4 study 80:18 stuff 32:21 48:5 style 32:17 72:8 98:9 stylistically 81:17 stylized 32:19 subcommittee 13:10 submit 48:18 submitted 99:15 success 19:21 successfully 25:18 40:11 sufficiently 91:20 suggest 83:17 83:18 93:20 Page 27 suggested 61:17 83:2 suggestions 91:2 97:11 suggests 95:2 sukrita 3:7 9:13 sullivan 3:3 9:1 9:3 16:17 92:19 96:13 super 63:18 superior 78:5 support 22:11 47:2 50:13 51:9,12 53:7 63:2 64:12 65:16 66:17 74:8 75:10 supporting 22:13 supposed 44:2 55:22 sure 14:22 31:18 41:9 52:15 59:10 68:20 83:16 86:18 91:5 surprising 35:16 sustained 19:1 swayed 64:8 switch 46:14 46:15 sworn 101:5 symbolize 18:15 symbols 51:9 51:10 93:6 technology 5:5 78:13 t 4:1,1 tell 27:20 41:5 table 87:3 41:14 take 16:8 67:20 telling 52:8 77:21 78:1 ten 87:20 82:19 87:19 terms 77:17 92:3 94:18 80:7,16 93:4 taken 37:13 52:21 101:3,12 terrible 42:14 testifying 101:5 102:9 text 77:19 takes 22:10 95:21 98:7,7 68:5 89:1 98:12,12 talk 20:17 24:5 thank 5:4,6,9 24:11 27:7 8:13 10:17 44:16 59:19 15:3,15,22 69:17 16:1,21 20:16 talked 44:14,15 20:16 22:21 talking 20:15 27:10,13,16 25:11 59:9 28:2 30:6 31:2 78:13,14 31:4 32:3 34:8 talks 25:4 35:10 36:10,11 26:11 27:1 38:1 41:10,11 tall 22:3 43:9,16,18,19 tate 3:11 5:13 45:2,3,22 46:1 10:13,16 31:14 47:15,16,18 35:12 77:6 50:9,11,19,20 87:15,22 88:2 50:22 51:1,2 97:16 98:20 52:1,2 54:15 99:1 54:19,22 55:1 tavern 23:8,14 57:14,15 58:6 44:14 45:17 58:7 62:19,21 teaching 55:10 62:22 64:12,13 technical 31:11 67:6,8 70:2 54:21 77:12 74:5,7 77:8 techniques 79:19,20 80:1 18:9 80:2,18,19,22 81:21 85:8 t www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 Meeting [thank - truth] 88:3 90:19 92:1,9,21 93:16 94:2,18 94:20,21 95:1 95:15 96:3,15 97:8,17 98:16 98:17 99:8,19 100:4,20 thanking 14:18 thanks 11:5,7 20:13,18,20,21 51:22 52:7 theme 13:11 14:1 theory 62:1 thing 37:14,18 39:8 43:10,14 49:12 58:5,21 58:22 62:9 65:8 76:12 things 15:6 32:20 36:1 38:3 39:20,22 42:6,20 44:12 47:4 52:11 53:16 62:1 64:19 65:4 67:14 84:6 think 21:15 22:5 26:13 31:20 33:3,15 34:5 35:21 37:18 38:2,9 38:10,15,15 43:2,5 44:17 44:20 45:20 46:12 47:20 48:11,16 49:17 April 17, 2024 Page 28 49:20,21 51:15 51:16,17 52:11 53:3,6,9,19 54:2 55:17 56:2,15,20 60:14,15 62:11 63:4,18,20 64:10,17 65:5 65:14,22 66:14 67:9,17,18,19 67:20 68:7,8 68:11 69:3,18 69:21 70:4,5 70:11 71:7,17 71:19,22 72:10 72:14,15 74:3 74:12,17 76:22 77:1 78:20 79:4 80:22 81:6,10,18 82:14 84:3,5 84:14 91:11,20 92:13 93:19 94:9 95:12 98:10 thinking 56:17 64:16 75:21 77:19 third 35:1 thought 15:4,7 39:13 40:20 53:4,18 60:2 64:3 68:19 71:2,5 72:12 85:9 thoughtful 14:13 three 14:6,7 26:14 29:14 34:15 35:5,8 40:19,20 48:14 50:7 53:11,12 57:20 61:9 64:4,4 65:1,6,9 65:10 69:19 82:17 threshold 90:18 throw 98:1,4 time 5:18 12:4 15:18 24:5 25:9 42:22 45:2,8 54:14 55:10 58:3,3,6 61:9,9 71:11 74:10 79:22 85:5 87:22 88:2 92:11 95:11 99:5 times 15:14 today 8:16 10:19 11:8 13:15 16:4,12 20:5,17 40:9 40:17 50:2 55:11 96:10 100:6 today's 5:22 6:1 7:15 47:10 together 12:5 56:3,4 told 44:11 64:10 91:5 took 17:15,18 25:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 tool 19:4 top 97:19 98:13 torn 45:18 58:20 traces 17:6 track 67:14 tracks 47:3 tradition 19:20 21:10,13 44:21 traditional 33:2 34:4 72:15 94:12 traditionally 94:5 transcriber 102:1 transcript 6:4 102:3,5 transcriptionist 101:8 transformed 39:3,4 treasure 15:13 treasury 1:11 4:9 7:21 13:17 13:22 86:2 92:17 93:1,14 93:15 94:5,7,9 94:11,13,16,17 95:13,19 tripoli 17:17 23:18 true 39:8 78:2 101:9 102:5 trust 21:6 28:8 97:7 truth 27:20 Meeting [try - verbiage] try 47:22 48:7 trying 49:11 60:5 74:22 98:10 tucker 2:18 7:4 7:6 43:18,20 45:22 62:20,21 80:1,2 85:21 85:22 91:19,19 94:2,20 95:18 99:14 100:10 100:10 tun 23:8,14 44:14 45:17 turn 11:22 12:11 14:20 15:1 27:15 turned 15:1 turns 60:1 two 5:3,19 12:4 14:6 17:8 23:3 23:6 24:13 26:6 31:22 38:4 42:6 47:7 49:22 53:15 79:6,13 80:15 types 32:22 typewriting 101:7 typically 14:8 80:13 93:3 u u.s. 1:12 2:21 8:17 18:22 19:4 36:22 75:8 April 17, 2024 Page 29 ultimate 91:9 unanimously 86:8 100:2 uncirculated 80:11 uncle 55:5 unconventio... 59:2 underscore 31:9 81:22 underscored 82:1 understand 48:17 49:13 53:10 63:1 64:9 understanding 5:7 79:7 uniform 24:18 24:18 46:5,10 46:12,20,21 50:1,1 uniforms 30:21 unique 70:10 72:18 73:9,14 united 3:19 4:6 7:18 10:10,20 14:4,14 16:13 16:19,22 17:14 19:9 20:1,6 28:8 29:11 42:20 51:8 63:12 85:3 92:22 93:6,14 94:4,11,16 96:16 97:2 99:7 units 17:3 university 47:2 unofficial 33:19 36:7 unser 8:11 unum 28:9 upcoming 100:7 use 5:13 31:14 35:12 97:16 used 32:20,22 34:18 36:4 useful 65:22 uses 34:11 using 51:5,10 66:11 usmc 29:4 usually 67:15 84:4 v value 77:16 values 19:16 34:12 97:7 van 1:6 2:5 5:9 5:15 6:10,13 6:17,20 7:1,4,7 7:10,11 8:13 8:20 9:1,4,7,10 9:13,16,19 10:2,6,9,13,17 11:7,13 16:1 27:14 28:3 30:6 31:2,5,18 33:12 35:10 36:11,14,17 43:16 46:1 47:16 48:7 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 49:7,10 50:9 50:20 52:2 54:15,18 57:5 57:10,14 58:7 62:19 64:13 66:15 67:3,6 74:6 75:14 77:5,8,14 79:20 80:19 81:21 83:10,14 83:16 84:5,11 85:18 86:18,20 87:2,9,12,16 88:3 90:19 91:14 92:1,12 93:16 95:1,15 95:22 96:3,7 97:8 98:17 99:8,12,16,19 100:1,11,14,17 vanderveld 3:13 11:1 20:8 20:11 21:4 43:19 92:4 vantage 70:13 81:8 variety 17:3 various 10:20 34:18 vasquez 3:4 9:4 9:6 ventris 4:11 7:22 96:11 97:1 venturini 102:2 102:15 verbiage 33:5 Meeting [version - worth] version 78:2,4 79:3 versions 32:19 versus 34:4 76:16 84:17 vickers 78:22 vietnam 18:17 45:6 55:6 view 8:2 64:19 76:10 86:13 93:13 villages 18:19 virtually 11:21 12:3 16:6 48:3 visible 38:18 visit 15:20 16:9 42:19 78:11 92:7 visually 78:19 vocation 19:15 voices 79:5 volcanic 18:14 vote 62:13 66:13 68:21 71:2 77:2 84:2 84:10 85:14 86:1,3,7,9,13 86:15 88:13 89:8,20 90:5 90:17 91:20 voted 84:22 85:17 86:16 91:21 voters 85:1 voting 62:16 65:20 66:2,12 April 17, 2024 Page 30 w w 3:15 11:2 wait 41:8 walls 56:14 want 6:2,5 10:18 15:19 27:15 31:8 41:14 43:5 46:15 47:18 48:5,13 51:5,7 51:9,14,20,21 53:20 54:22 58:15 61:11 62:11 64:2 65:17,20 66:4 68:13 69:10,15 69:20 72:8 73:10 74:14 76:9 81:22 85:15 86:6,10 wanted 5:3 39:17 45:10 46:4 52:20 53:16,21 70:2 71:5 80:5 94:3 99:3 wanting 59:19 war 17:12,19 17:21 18:1,2,4 18:9,11,16 19:6 25:10,14 26:3 45:6 47:14 warrant 63:19 warren 2:3 5:2 8:6,9,10 10:3,5 11:12 14:22 wars 18:17 washington 1:14 watching 5:20 8:7 way 30:22 36:21,21 38:9 38:11 49:18 52:17,20 53:9 53:10 54:3 56:7,11,16,18 57:19 60:16 69:19 70:3,4,4 70:9,10 79:13 84:17 91:5 94:14 ways 17:22 52:8 54:1 72:18,18 we've 27:2 40:18 90:22 wednesday 1:7 5:12,18 weight 43:4 weinman 3:9 10:6,8 88:4,7 welcome 5:20 66:16 80:4 92:11 93:22 went 10:1 17:13 23:7 wide 17:3 19:6 win 25:13 84:21 winning 18:18 wish 16:3 witness 101:4 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376 woman 28:18 women 19:12 54:2 won 85:3 wonder 31:19 38:5 44:15 wonderful 15:14 80:3 94:21 95:15 wondering 35:17 60:4 wood 18:6 worded 94:14 wording 94:4 94:12 words 20:12 27:22 wore 47:13 work 13:6,7 32:4 42:4 53:19 54:3 72:7 74:12 79:18 worked 51:4 55:2 93:7 working 13:9 13:13 20:4 99:5 works 56:2 91:6 world 8:11 17:21 18:4,11 25:10 45:6 59:10 78:17 worlds 15:6,6 worse 19:9 worth 76:22 Meeting [xerox - zuckerberg] x xerox 54:9 y yancey 1:19 101:2,17 yeah 28:1 30:17 31:13,15 32:2 34:8 41:7 45:3 48:7 71:4 82:8 83:16 86:19 87:16 97:16 year 12:7 25:4 26:12 76:3,3,4 76:4 78:21 84:18,21 85:4 years 13:4,10 15:16 17:20 19:3 21:1,6 23:16,20 24:1 25:9 26:10,16 27:6 29:4 38:6 39:10,11 43:11 43:15 46:11 47:11 63:12 72:1 78:12 80:10 85:2 yellen 4:9 7:21 92:17 93:11,12 95:12 yelling 39:21 yesterday 5:4 5:20 65:12 100:6 young 3:19 10:9,12 69:5,6 April 17, 2024 Page 31 younger 80:17 youtube 5:21 z zoom 81:8 zuckerberg 60:1 www.CapitalReportingCompany.com 202-857-3376