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CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-£O

1947

industry in the United States. Controls cattle. We have the disease now in
should be used for such maintenance of Mexico, and we all know that public
a synthetic rubber industry only if spe- carriers are daily coming from Mexico
cific authority is provided for that pur- into the United States without proper
pose.
regulation as to garbage that might be
I therefore recommend that.the Sen- dumped in the United States and bring
ate and the House .of Representatives, by about this infection and disease. This
joint resolution, make a declaration of bill will protect the American horticulpolicy to the effect that it is the firm in- ture, agriculture, and livestock industry.
tention of the Government to maintain I would like to see the House adopt this
a synthetic rubber industry in the United bill, because I think it is urgently needed,
States, adequate to the minimum needs particularly at this time. Mexico, our
neighboring country, has perhaps as
of national security.
I further recommend that the Senate much as half a million head of livestock
and the House of Representatives act ex- affected by the hoof-and-mouth disease.
peditiously in establishing appropriate
Mr. HOPE}. While I made a reservacommittee arrangements to consider the tion of objection, I have no intention, of
problems involved in maintaining a syn- course, of objecting to the bill. It is
thetic rubber industry in the United true, as the gentleman has stated, that
States and to draft such legislation as is the bill passed the House unanimously,
found to be necessary to accomplish this as I recall it, in the last session, and it
objective.
lacked passage only because of a clerical
I repeat my recent recommendation ^error which resulted in the considerathat the authority to continue allocation tion of the bill being postponed in the
controls on rubber be continued for 1 Senate. The Committee on Agriculture
year under title i n of the Second War the other day reported the bill unaniPowers Act, in order that the Congress mously. I know of no objection to it.
may have an opportunity to consider
Mr. ELLIOTT. It is important to
this problem and to enact such perma- bring it up at this time because of the
nent legislation as in its judgment is prevalence of the hoof-and-mouth disnecessary and appropriate.
. ease in Mexico, and I hope there will be
The program of action I have out- no objection to the passage of the measlined has the unanimous and vigorous ure at this time.
support of all agencies of Government
The SPEAKER. Is there objection to
concerned with this problem. I am in- the requesj of the gentleman frop*-*^structing these agencies to give all pos- fornia?
sible assistance to the Congress in its conThere being no objection, the clerk
sideration of the problem, and to make read the bill, as follows:
available, on request, the statistical
Be it enacted, etc., That (a) for the purmaterial and other information which poses of this act—
they have collected.
(1) The term "garbage" means waste maHARRY S. TRUMAN.

THE WHITE HOUSE, February 7,1947.
PROTECTING AMERICAN AGRICULTURE,
HORTICULTURE, LIVESTOCK, AND THE
PUBLIC HEALTH

Mr. ELLIOTT. Mr. Speaker, I ask
unanimous consent for the immediate
'consideration of the bill H. R. 597.
The Clerk read the title of the bill.
The SPEAKER. Is there objection
to the request of the gentleman from
California?
Mr. HOPE. Mr. Speaker, reserving
the right to object, will the gentleman
explain the bill?
Mr. ELLIOTT. Mr. Speaker, this bill
will provide legislation which makes
mandatory the proper handling of garbage from transportation facilities, such
as ships, railway cars, airplanes, and
other forms of transportation by which
garbage might be carried. Last year I
introduced a similar bill, which passed
the House but on account of a typographical error found on the last day of
the session in the Senate the bill was
held up. I relntroduced this bill in
January of this year.
We now have in Mexico the hoof-andmouth disease, and this bill will go a
long way to protect what I believe might
be one of the main germ carriers, transportation. Back in 1924 and 1925 we
had the hoof-and-mouth disease In the
United States. At that time it was
brought in by ships from foreign countries.
Garbage was dumped in the

waters on the west coast near San Franhttp://fraser.stlouisfed.org/
cisco, and we lost thousands of head of
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

terial, such as food scraps, table refuse, galley
refuse, and refuse from stores of ships, railway cars, and aircraft, including such waste
material In passengers' and crews' quarters,
derived, In whole or In part, from fruits,
vegetables, or animal products which have
originated outside of, and have not previously
legally entered, the continental United
States.
(2) The term "fruits, vegetables, or ^nimni
products" shall not include fruits, vegetables,
or animal products, purchased as ships' provisions in Canadian ports on the Great Lakes,
unless there Is in effect, with respect thereto,
a proclamation Issued under subsection (b)
of this section.
(3) The term "vessel" means every description of craft or other contrivance used, or
capable oT being used, as means of transportation on or in water.
(4) The term "aircraft" means every description of craft or other contrivance used,
or capable of being used, as means of transportation through the air.
(5) The term "person" means an Individual, partnership, corporation, company, society, or association, a State or any agency
thereof, or a political subdivision of a State
or any agency thereof; and such term Imports
the singular or plural, as the case may be.
(6) The term "United States," when not
limited by the adjective "continental," Includes all Territories and possessions of the
United States, with the exception?*^ the
Philippine Islands and the Canal Zoi
(7) The term "continental United btates"
means that part of the United States located
on the continent of North America, including
Alaska, but excluding Hawaii, Puerto Rico,
the Virgin Islands, and the Canal Zone.
(8) The term "territorial waters of the
United States" means all navigable waters of
the United States, including all portions of
the sea within Its jurisdiction.

TOP^SSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE

FEBRUARY 10

The press officer at the Justice Department, on the other hand, seems to function more or less as a censor or security
officer. I am told by newspapermen
that they must channel their inquiries
at the Justice Department through the
With the following committee amend- public information director. He in turn
ment:
releases only such information as he or
Page 8, line 21, after the word "March" his superiors may choose. I am sure
strike out "13" and insert "3."
Congress does not regard that type of
The committee amendment was agreed public information as desirable.
The State Department is now operto.
ating a vast foreign publicity program
The bill was ordered to be engrossed through
Office of International Inand read a third time, was read the formationitsand
Cultural Affairs. That
third time, and passed, and a motion to office
now has more than 3,000 employees.
reconsider was laid on the table.
I am told that in many cases the De^
SPECIAL ORDER
partment has taken on young men just
The SPEAKER. Under previous or- out of military service with little or no
der of the House the gentleman from experience in public relations and little
Connecticut [Mr. MILLER] is recognized
or no actual first-hand knowledge of
for 20 minutes.
American social and economic institu(Mr. MILLER of Connecticut asked tions. Yet these young men are being
and was given permission to revise and hired at salaries ranging from $6,000 to
extend his remarks.)
j $7,000 and are being sent all over the
world to serve as publicity agents for the
PROPAGANDA
United States Government. I am told
Mr. MILLER of Connecticut. Mr. I that these agents are being appointed by
Speaker, during the campaign last No- I the State Department without any exvember I repeatedly urged the residents amination whatsoever, and are being asof my district to vote on the basis of sured that after some service abroad they
facts rather than rumors or propaganda: will be given a permanent State DepartI believe I made that suggestion in every ment status without qualifying by examcampaign speech. I further promised inations.
if elected to Congress I would try
I have here an example of how this
^ep my district informed as to the
organization spends the taxpayers' hardav ities of their Government.
It was with this in view that I intro- earned dollars. Look magazine recently
duced a few days ago a resolution au- published reprints of seven paintings
thorizing a special committee to investi- purchased by the Government, we are
gate Government public relations and told at a cost of $40,000. These paintings are to be sent around the world as
propaganda activities.
So far as I can learn Congress has an exhibition of American art and culnever in contemporary times obtained an ture. If these paintings represent Amerintegrated over-all picture of what we ican art at its best, let us bury them in a
are spending on publicity agents and just deep hole instead of displaying them to
what those agents do. Various appro- our neighbors.
priations subcommittees get some of
The Federal Reserve Board presents I
these facts piecemeal as they consider another example of what I regard as a
the respective supply bills. But no com- bad practice. It has long been the habit
mittee so. far as I can ascertain has ever of many Federal agencies to hire pubcompiled this information in such form licity agents in the guise of other capacithat a House Member can learn for him- ties. Thus their budget allocations are
self the costs and functions of Govern- not identified as being for the purpose
ment publicity and propaganda. I feel of public information. At the Federal
that some House committee should col- Reserve Board, for instance, a Mr. Elliott
lect these facts,' that thereafter Con- Thurston is listed in the Official Register
gress should determine a deflnit£*policy of the United States as "Assistant to the
with respect to publicity, and that ap- Chairman." Now as a matter of fact,
propriations should be confirmed by this Mr. Thurston is a former Washington
policy.
correspondent who is actually public inLet me make it abundantly plain that formation director for the Board. This
is
well known by newspapermen here
I am not attacking the theory that Government needs information specialists who contact the Board for information.
to help the radio and press get the facts. Yet, officially Mr. Thurston has nothing
Nor am I criticizing press and radio for to do with public relations, but is listed
utilizing such services. Beyond- any as an assistant to the Chairman.
doubt there is a need in Washington for
It is my understanding that Mr.
a limited number of such information Thurston
is the highest paid Government
specialists.
public-relations man In Washington.
Newspapermen here inform me that
The Official Register of, the United
sopa^ of these press agents right now are
F
rming a number of valuable serv- States does not list his salary, but disi c e . For instance, I am told that pub- closes that his salary is paid from assesslic-relations men at the Labor and In- ments levied by the Board upon Federal
. terior Departments have evoked an open- Reserve banks.
Such disbursements by the banks natdoor policy. In other words, they encourage Washington correspondents to urally increase the cost of service to
make inquiries and they help the cor- bank patrons. I fee} sure that the public
respondents
to get in touch with the and the banks would welcome some rev
proper officials. That undeniably is a elation by Congress concerning Mr.
http://fraser.stlouisfed.org/
Thursioq's position and duties.
_ helpful
public
Federal
Reserve
Bankservice,
of St. Louis
SBC. 11. Nothing contained in section 13
of the act of March 13, 1899 (30 Stat. 1152;
33 U. S. C, 1940 ed., 407), shall be construed as forbidding the discharge of fluid
garbage into the territorial waters of the
United States.

CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE
Any Member of the House can get some
Idea of what this overgrown Federal publicity system Is costing the taxpayers by
glancing at the 1947 Budget requests for
the Office of the Secretary of Commerce.
Under this office are listed the following
publicity agents:
Director of Publications, $10,000 a
year salary.
Assistant Director of Publications,
$8,479 a year.
Chief, Editorial Section, $8,180 a year.
Chief, Publications Program, $8,180 a
year. *
Chief of the Field Publications Service,
$7,342.
Five information specialists, $29,525.
Four city editors, $23,860.
One Information specialist, $4,902.
Head of the Publications Section,
$4,902.
Now bear in mind that these press
agents are only those found in the office
of the Secretary of Commerce. Many of
the agencies in the Department have
their own public information specialists
listed separately.
These figures do not include the salaries of those who grind out the material
released.
Just to give the Members of the House
some idea of the hand-outs prepared and
distributed daily by Government public
information men I asked one of the news/^^jermen to save for me such handouts
press releases received by his office in
x day. Here they are. You can see they
make up a pile about 2 inches thick. Any
Member is perfectly welcome to look
these over if he wishes.
Here Is another phase of Government
handouts which I think the House should
look into. I hold in my hand a rather
beautiful and cdmprehensive document
printed in the Government Printing Office and compiled by the War Assets Administration. It numbers 16 pages printed on very high-grade glossy stock. It
is well filled with excellent and costly art.
It is pure undiluted propaganda.
There is not one single word of news in it
that would be regarded as legitimate copy
by a good newspaper or magazine. Its
real purpose is to convince Congress and
the public that the War Assets Administration has been making a valuable tontribution to the Nation by selling war
surpluses.
That sort of thing should be stopped.
Here is another example of Government publicity which I think should be
given attention by this House. It is
laughable, but it is costly.
This is an official Department of Commerce press release setting forth the con- elusions of specialists in that Department
who studied the establishment and operation of a book store. Here is their conclusion as set forth in this official release.
I Quote:

995

pages of short two- or three-line paraMr. Speaker, I yield back the balance
graphs which the administration hopes of my time.
newspapers will use to fill in surplus
The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr.
white space. I find it difficult to regard BISHOP). Under the previous order of
this sort of activity as essential to the the House the gentleman from Wisconpress of the Nation.
sin [Mr. BYRNES] is recognized for 30
I hold in my hand the Consumers' minutes.
Guide, a Department of Agriculture pubTAX REDUCTION
lication printed on good glossy paper
Mr.
BYRNES
Wisconsin. Mr.
with plenty of pictures. How many Speaker, ever sinceofthis
Congress conmagazines of this kind do you suppose • vened the first part of January,
have
the Government publishes? I would heard a considerable amount we
talk
like to know. We employ thousands of about reducing taxes. I do not ofbelieve
people to furnish material to private there is any Member of this House or of
publishers. Then we compete with the Senate either who would not and
them by publishing and distributing free does
not hope that he can with good conmagazines.
science vote for a reduction in taxes.
I have here a few press releases for This,
course, is a most laudable obFebruary 8 and 9. These releases used jective,of but
I wonder, Mr. Speaker,
to be sent out on plain inexpensive pa- whether we have
spent enough time talkper, but now I suppose that we are in ing about how we
can accomplish this
the money with a thirty-five billion dollar objective. We spend
too much time, I
tax income and the shooting war over. think, talking about formulas
and overNow we must have colored letterheads. looking the most important point:
That
In fact, the Public Relations Division of we can reduce taxes only as we correthe War Department now put their re- spondingly reduce expenditures. Mr.
leases out with two-color jobs—the old Speaker, we must do two very definite
red, white, and blue.
things before we can reach the point
Again, I want to emphasize my object where we discuss and talk formulas for
is to obtain the definite facts for Con- tax reduction, in my opinion. In the
gress. Talk to any Washington news- first place, we must balance the budget.
paperman or radio man and you will get We cannot spend the same amount we
all sorts of reactions and reports on have been spending in the past and still
Government public information oper- balance our budget. In order, therefore,
ations. Nobody seems to know what the » to accomplish even the first objective we
program is or is intended to be. I feel** have got to start cutting, and cutting
the time has come for Congress to lay deep. It amuses me very much, Mr.
down a-definite policy for Government Speaker, to find gentlemen from the
publicity.
other side of the aisle here entering into
Mr. VURSELL. Mr. Speaker, will the the discussion of tax reduction and tax
gentleman yield?
formulas when they themselves are comMr. MILLER of Connecticut. I yield. mitted to a Presidential budget which
Mr. VURSELL. I presume a lot of under no stretch of the imagination can
this excessive and useless mail comes leave room for any tax reduction. So I
under what is called penalty mail in believe it would come with much better
the Post Office Department.
grace for them to stop talking about forMr. MII/TiER of Connecticut. It cer- mulas for reducing taxes and to start
tainly is. There is no postage on any whittling away at their own Presidential
and party budget.
of it.
Mr. VURSELL. Being a member of
Before we talk about tax reductions
the Post Office and Civil Service Commit- we must, I believe, make provision for
tee, I find that in 1946 that Department a very substantial payment on the nastacked up-a deficit of something like . tional debt, and we cannot do even that
$300,000,000. The President has called if we are going to accept the Presidenattention to this deficit and has recom- tial budget of $37,500,000,000. So that
mended higher postal rates. Of that I believe the other side of the House
deficit probably fifty or seventy-five might well give consideration to this facmillion is on account of the unnecessary tor before they inject themselves into
and useless mail issued by the various the tax-reduction program. When we
Federal departments, known as penalty do this, when we make provision for the
mail. I do not know what can be done balancing of the budget, and when we
about it, but I think the gentleman make provision, Mr. Speaker, for a subshould be commended for bringing this stantial payment on the national debt,
to the attention of the House. Certainly . then is the time for making some cut
one way to stop this would be to blast in taxes.
out some of this bureaucracy, and put
Mr. Speaker, I am not saying that these
these people, who have nothing to do ' three
are impossible, that they
except to waste Government money, back cannotobjectives
be achieved; in fact, Mr. Speakinto civilian life where they might pro- er, I very
firmly believe that under the
duce something to support the Govern- new controls
in the House and in the
,<—vlt Is more important to be a smart busi- ment, rather than to ride and let their
Senate and under the new philosophy
Bsman than a bookworm If you are to make feet drag all the time at the expense of
that should pervade as a result of that
_ success of running a book store.
the Government.
change that all three of these objectives
That, Mr. Speaker, is a Commerce DeMr. MTT-T-BfP- of Connecticut. That Is can and will be accomplished. But I
partment press release edited and broad- exactly what I am trying to do. We want to warn the House and I want to
cast at the taxpayers' expense.
have to find out where these people warn the American public that those obI have here a handout which the Vet- are and under what title we will find jectives cannot be accomplished and will
erans'for FRASER
Administration ~ probably will them on the pay roll. They will not be not be accomplished unless there is a
Digitized
maintain is valuable and indispensable. down there as publicity experts in many, deep-seated desire and a will to achttp://fraser.stlouisfed.org/
tually cut expenditures to the bone. Mr.
It isReserve
entitledBank
"Fillers."
It presents three many cases.
Federal
of St. Louis

996

CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—HOUSE

Speaker, that is what we should concen- want Government to do more for them, In
price supports, production bonuses, and
trate on today. That is what our ob- new
guaranteed high income. States want the
jective should be. The objectives, as far National
Treasury to help out with support of
as the end results are concerned, namely, their schools.
Old people want bigger penbalancing the Budget, making a substan- sions, bigger subsidies for State pension systial payment on the national debt, and tems. Then there are costly avlatlon-develcutting taxes, are very laudable, and, as opment plans, more loans to business, more
I say, I believe they can be accomplished; money asked for subsidies.
but, as in the war period, we had an ultiI continue further:
mate objective, namely, the winning of
The demand for more mon^y. for bigger
the war. Where did we concentrate? spending, Is bipartisan, and shows a tendency
We concentrated on a plan of operation to grow and not decline with the size of
as to how to attain that ultimate ob- existing payments.
jective. That is what we have got to do
Further on and more or less in conclutoday. We have to draw up a plan of
operation in order to cut expenditures sion of this article appears the following
so as to make those things possible. This statement:
All In all, except for bills calling for Inplan of operation, Mr. Speaker, should be vestigations
past Democratic administrato eliminate at least a minimum of $7,- tion and for ofregulation
labor unions, the
500,000,000 from the Presidential budget. mass of bills in Congressof reflects
apparWe have got to spend more time talking, ently deep desire on the part of the anAmerican
thinking, acting, and doing something people to get something for nothing. Memabout that. Then we can attain our ulti- bers of Congress propose a very great range
of Ideas for pumping dollars out of the United
mate objective of cutting taxes.
Treasury and into the pockets of one
Mr. KNUTSON. Mr. Speaker, will the States
group or another. At the same time, there is
gentleman yield?
a strong desire to reduce taxes* and to lower
Mr. BYRNES of Wisconsin. I yield to the
national debt. No Member of Congress,
the gentleman from Minnesota.
however. Is offering a formula by which
Mr. KNUTSON. The gentleman will h. nd-outs and subsidies can be stepped up
agree that everything depends upon how by additional billions of dollars a year while
high or how low a ceiling we place on taxes are being reduced and debt retired.
the Budget. We will have to start from
Yes; we talk on one hand of spending
there.
more
money and we talk on the other
Mr. BYRNES of Wisconsin. The gen- hand of
reducing taxes, but the formula
tleman is absolutely correct, but I think is not presented
show how you can
he has to carry that one step further. 4£ possibly do that. to
It
just
cannot be done.
Your budget top does not mean anything ~ You have to cut first and then
your taxes
unless you are going to stick to it, stay can be cut, and you cannot increase
your
with it, and insist on it.
expenditures without increasing your
Mr. KNUTSON. The gentleman will taxes.
recall that in the reorganization law it is
Mr. RANKIN. Mr.JSpeaker, will the
provided that if the Congress exceeds the gentleman
yield?
ceiling fixed on the Budget we will have
Mr.
BYRNES
of Wisconsin. I yield to
to amend the War Debt Act to increase the gentleman from
Mississippi.
the ceiling on the war debt?
Mr. RANKIN. The gentleman would
Mr. BYRNES of Wisconsin. The gen- not attempt to handicap the rural electleman is correct, but there is always trification program, would he, since that
that loophole. That is what I am worry- money all comes back? It is merely a
ing about, and I say that every Member loan to the farmers to build their own
of the House and every citizen of this lines, and comes back with interest.
country should worry about that. They
Mr. BYRNES of Wisconsin. I am not
should not forget that you cannot give talking
about any specific cut in that
a dollar in tax reduction until you take connection,
I do say this, that we
that dollar off your expenditures. That have got to but
adopt
an attitude that if
Is where we have to concentrate.
definite economies can at the present
Mr. KNUTSON. The great danger to time be made in rural electrification,
the program, as I see it, is that too many they must be .made, in spite of our inMembers may listen to false prophets. dividual desire to see a greater expansion
Mr. BYRNES of Wisconsin. I think made. That is true of all programs,'and
the gentleman is very right in that state- there is one place, Mr. Speaker, I think,
ment. The reason I think it is neces- where we are running into difficulty. We
sary to take the floor at this time to try are inclined to take the attitude that it
in my little voice to emphasize this ne- - ls all well and good to cut the other felcessity for reduction of expenditures is low, but "do not cut me," and that is
the fact that we have still prevailing in a philosophy that we cannot let continue
the Congress, in the House of Repre- if there is going to be any cutting at all.
sentatives at least, the theory that we
There are several specific things that
can keep on going and spending on new I think this Government must do, and
things or more things, continuing on and I would like to just point them out. In
still be able to accomplish the three ob- the first place, we must shut our eyes and
jectives which I have mentioned. I our ears against new proposals for exthink it is a sad commentary to read an penditures. We have got to make up our
article in the January 31 issue of the minds that we are going to resist all presUnited States News. It is a very factual sures for increases in Federal expendistatement, and I want to call It to the tures, for new aids to groups or to States
attention of the House. Here is what or to local units of government; that for
the article states:
the time being, at least until we get our
The "gimme" theme still dominates, even financial house in order, we must close
the door to new expenditures.
in this
period of roaring prosperity. Veter
No. 2. We must cut drastically our
ans
want
more
billions
when
already
they
http://fraser.stlouisfed.org/
present proposed expenditures, and this
are receiving $7,000,000,000 a year. Fanners
Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis

FEBRUARY

has to be done in two places: First,. .
the operation even of necessary governments activities', and then, second, we
must cut out a lot of activities that are
not in and of themselves absolutely
essential or that cannot be performed by
other units of Government.
Let us look for a moment at necessary
governmental activities. We know that
there is needless and top-heavy personnel and overlapping expenditures, and
those must be investigated thoroughly.
I know that the various subcommittees
of the Committee on Appropriations are
working hard in examining under a
microscope these various departments
and other activities to cut out this deadwood and overlapping. They must jump
on the necks of every department or
employee that spends one needless dollar.
Then, Mr. Speaker, we have got to back
those subcommittees up because it will
not do any good for them to come in
with a proposal for a cut and a proposal for economies in departmental activities if the House itself is going to
overrule them and say, "No; we have got
to keep this or that appropriation up."
We have got to stand by the subcommittees of our Committee on Appropriations when they make their cuts.
Mr. KNUTSON. Mr. Speaker, will the
gentleman yield?
Mr. BYRNES of Wisconsin. I yield to
the gentleman from Minnesota.
Mr. KNUTSON. I think the gen
man from Wisconsin, who has mad».
very careful study of this question, will
agree that it is necessary to keep the
Federal spending at $32,000,000,000 or
less if we are to have any tax reduction.
Mr. BYRNES of Wisconsin. In fact,
I believe we should have a minimum cut
of $7,500,000,000, which would bring the
budget down to $30,000,000,000.
Mr. KNUTSON. Of course, there are
those who claim that the budget can be
cut down to $28,000,000,000; I do not
know. But I am satisfied it can be
brought down to $32,000,000,000 without
in any way impairing the national defense, our obligation to the veterans, and
for all needed expenditures for necessary
Government activities.
Mr. BYRNES of Wisconsin. The gentleman is- absolutely right. If we'have
the determination to do it, and the will
do it, and I sincerely hope we have, the
cuts can be made. But, we must become a little more worried as to whether
or not we are going to reach that objective. We must keep it constantly in
our minds.
Mr. KNUTSON. I think the gentleman's fears are well founded because we
detect on both sides of the aisle that
spreading disease that calls for spending and spending, and taxing and taxing.
Mr. BYRNES of Wisconsin. The gentleman is right. There are bills p f posed in this House every day. I wi
an analysis of them could be made. But
there are bills and resolutions introduced in this House every day for spending more money to start some new project. Now, you cannot do that on one
hand, and on the other hand say, "We
are going to balance the budget, and
make a payment on the national debt.