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DIARY

Book 514

April 7-9, 1942

-AAirplanes

Shipments to U.S.S.R. - Kamarck report - 4/8/42

Aircraft flight delivery, April 6, 1942 - British

Air Commission report - 4/8/42
Atchison, Topeka, and Sante Fe Railroad

Book

Page

514

254

256-A

See Financing, Government: War Savings Bonds
(Sante Fe Railroad)

-BBahrein Island
See Military Reports

-CComptroller of Currency

First National Bank of Detroit, Michigan: Purchase of
remaining assets discussed by Treasury group -

4/7/42

53

a) Delano memorandum

58

Conard, Charles - Admiral
See Financing, Government: War Savings Bonds

"Coordinated Circulation"
See Polivanov, Magda

-DDallas, Helen
See Financing, Government: War Savings Bonds

Dies Committee

Investigations discussed by Biddle and HMJr - 4/9/42.
Duffus, Carlton

344

See Financing, Government: War Savings Bonds

-EE1 Salvador
See Gold
Exchange Market

Resume's - 4/7/42, etc

130,276,405

Exports

Freight Situation - Haas memorandum - 4/8/42

257

-FFinancing, Government

New York banks offer every assistance to Treasury through
Federal Reserve Bank of New York - 4/7/42
a) Sproul-HMJr conversation - 4/14/42: See Book 516,
pages 141 and 145
b) Sproul asked by HMJr to get a group for conference
with Graves and Gamble - 4/21/42: Book 518, page 248

65

- F - (Continued)
Financing, Government (Continued)

Book

Page

War Savings Bonds:

See also Inflation
Interdepartmental Committee for Voluntary Payroll
Savings Plan:

HMJr's letter to FDR - 4/7/42

Proposed Executive Order - 4/7/42
Navy Secretary Knox endorses Admiral Charles Conard
as Chairman - 4/7/42
Sante Fe Railroad: Pehle memorandum on stock holdings

in connection with Payroll Allotment Plan - 4/7/42
Comparative statement of sales during first 5 business
days of February, March, and April, 1942 - 4/7/42
Agents - report on - 4/8/42

"Sales quotas" letter to FDR (not sent) - 4/9/42
Staff criticised severely by HMJr in face of hard
program ahead of Treasury - 4/9/42.

a) Duffus, Helen Dallas, etc., discussed

514

88
91

90

94

97

240,245
282
314

Payroll Savings Plan: General Electric Company case

history - 4/9/42.
a) For letters to companies based on this, see

352

Book 518, page 295

First National Bank of Detroit, Michigan
See Comptroller of Currency
Foreign Funds Control
General Aniline and Film Corporation:

HMJr's resume' of plan on completion of Board of
Directors - 4/7/42
Ozalid Corporation: Knox inquires concerning - 4/8/42.
a) Reply - 4/17/42: Book 517, page 256
1) Office of War Information, Securities and

99

373

Exchange Commission, War, etc., informed:
Book 517, page 260

Forrestal, James

See Inflation

France

Coins - new issue bearing initials of General de Gaulle
suppressed: American Consulate General, Zurich,

report - 4/9/42

401

Freight, Export
See Exports

-General Aniline and Film Corporation
Gold

See Foreign Funds Control

Latin America

E1 Salvador: Additional gold purchased and earmarked 4/7/42

Grell, H. H. Giovad
See Polivanov, Magda

123

-IInflation
Henderson invited for interview - 4/7/42
Stewart

Book

Page

514

5

- 4/7/42
a) Budget "War Program to Prevent Inflation, . HMJr's
memorandum to FDR, etc., sent to Stewart for
"

study

?

12

Forrestal's suggestion, based on British example
(War Ships Week), of voluntary contributions for ships,

planes, tanks, etc. - thus helping to close
inflationary gap - 4/7/42
a) HMJr-Phillips conversation

48
50

b) Phillips' letter - 4/18/42: Book 518, page 34

(See also Book 519, page 234)
1) FDR, etc., informed: Book 519, page 237
c) American Embassy, London, asked for additional
information - 4/22/42: Book 519, page 249

Landis invited to conference with Henderson and Smith 4/7/42

61

Conference; present: Treasury representatives, Colm,
Leland, Currie, Hansen, Landis, Henderson, Galbraith,

and Gilbert - 4/8/42

149

a) Henderson-Eccles-Smith-Wallace call on FDR

reported to HMJr by Wallace - 4/8/42

177

1) FDR's proposed speech discussed
a) Rosenman-HMJr conversation

2) HMJr reports conversation to Treasury group
3) Voluntary versue enforced savings discussed

204
183
197

a) FDR's point of view explained to

Treasury group - 4/9/42
Interdepartmental Committee for Voluntary Payroll Savings Plan
Iran

310

See Financing, Government: War Savings Bonds

Keynes and Casady (American Embassy) discuss attitude

toward British - 4/8/42

267

-K"Know Your Money"

See Secret Service

-LLatin America
E1 Salvador: See Gold
M-

Magill, Roswell
See Revenue Revision

Military Reports

British operations reports - 4/7/42, etc

131,278,
406.407

- M - (Continued)

Military Reports (Continued)
Coordinator of Information reports:
London Weekly Propaganda Digest - 4/7/42
The War This Week, April 2-9, 1942.

Book

514

Page

134

410

Royal Air Force Bombing Activity - Kamarck report 4/7/42

136

Kamarck summary - 4/9/42

411,417

-0Ozalid Corporation
See Foreign Funds Control: General Aniline and Film
Corporation

-PPolivanov, Magda

"Coordinated Circulation" plan transmitted to Mrs. FDR
and so to HMJr - 4/8/42

230

Western field offices to be visited by Mack preparatory
to consolidation - 4/9/42

353

Quinine, etc.: Foley to discuss with Parran at HMJr's
request - 4/9/42

280

Procurement Division

Public Health Service

- aQuinine

See Public Health Service

-RRevenue Revision

Magill, Roswell: Declines invitation to discuss Treasury
program on radio - 4/7/42
British 100% Excess Profits Tax - alleged "political"
benefits of: American Embassy, London, cable - 4/8/42..

(See also Book 516, page 208 - 4/14/42)
FDR to talk to Doughton - 4/9/42

67

260

311

-SSante Fe Railroad
See Financing, Government: War Savings Bonds
Secret Service

"Know Your Money": Publicity given to discussed in
Gaston memorandum - 4/9/42

"Washington Merry-Go-Round story of killing of Federal
Bureau of Investigation agent by two Army deserters
formerly stationed as White House sentries completely
denied - 4/9/42

359

361

Book

Taxation
See Revenue Revision

Page

Treasury Accounts (Emergency)

Liquidation of - 4/9/42
a) FDR's approval of plan - 4/9/42

514

354
357

-U.S.S.R.

See Airplanes
United Kingdom

See also Revenue Revision

Dollar telegraphic transfers, etc. - negotiation of
for official purposes at $4.03 per pound net in
sterling area - 4/7/42
For voluntary funds, as, for example, War Ships Week
campaign, see Inflation

114,120,
377,389

-WWar Savings Bonds
See Financing, Government
War Ships Week

See Inflation: Forrestal suggestion

"Washington Merry-Go-Round

Story of killing of Federal Bureau of Investigation

agent by two Army deserters formerly stationed as
White House sentries completely denied - 4/9/42

361

1

April 7, 1942
9:12 a.m.

HMJr:

Hello.

Operator:

Mr. Murray is in Pittsburgh until early Friday

HMJr:

Let me see. Who is there that could talk for

morning.

him during his absence?

Operator: I'll see.
HMJr:

Let me know.

Operator: Right.
9:13 a.m.
HMJr:

Hello.

Operator:

Mr. Murray's office referred me to Mr. Carey,
and he's out of town until tomorrow, but I have
his secretary. She thought perhaps she could
help you.

HMJr:

All right.

Operator:

Right. Go ahead.

HMJr:

Hello.

S:

Good morning.

HMJr:

This is Mr. Morgenthau.

S:

Yes.

HMJr:

Who, in the absence of Mr. Murray and Mr. Carey,

S:

HMJr:

can I talk to on a policy matter affecting CIO?
Well, now, I think that you should talk to either
of them. They will be calling - Mr. Carey will
be calling me today, and I'd be glad to talk to
him about it and have him call you.
Well, it's something I couldn't very well do
over the phone.

2

-2S:

I see. You want to see them personally.

HMJr:

I want to - I'd like to see one or the other.

S:

Let me see

HMJr:

Will you be speaking with Mr. Murray?

S:

Yes, I will, during the day - during the

HMJr:

morning, I think.
Well, would you make a point of it?

S:

Yes.

HMJr:

S:

HMJr:

And tell Mr. Murray I'd like to see somebody
on a policy matter that affects CIO and who
can I see today or tomorrow that would know
what was in his mind or could find out.

Yes. All right, I'11 do that, Mr. Morgenthau,
and call back your office as soon as I hear.
Call on District 2626.

S:

District 2626.

HMJr:

If you please.

S:

Yes, I will.

HMJr:

Thank you.

S:

Good-bye.

3

April 7, 1942
9:16 a.m.

Miss

Ford:

Hello.

HMJr:

This is Mr. Morgenthau speaking.

F:

Yes, sir. Mr. Green is out of the city today,

Mr. Morgenthau.
HMJr:

When will he be back?

F:

I expect him tomorrow.

HMJr:
F:

Well, will you be talking to him today?
No, I don't think 80.

HMJr:

Well

F:

What is it you have in mind.

HMJr:

I'd like to see him.

F:

Oh, yes.

HMJr:

Do you suppose you could make an appointment

for him to come over and see me - have you got
that much

F:

Authority?

HMJr:

Yeah, or influence or whatever you call it.

F:

(Laughs) Well, when did you want him to come,
tomorrow?

HMJr:

I wonder if he could come over and see me say
around three o'clock tomorrow. Supposing we

make it tentative.
F:

Well, suppose we do that.

HMJr:

I'll put him
And I'll call your office the very first thing

F:

in the morning.

HMJr:

Yeah.

4

2F:

HMJr:
F:

How will that be?

That'11 be fine. I'11 put him
Put it down, and if - I'11 call in the morning
and either confirm it or advise you what Mr.
Green.

F:

And will you call on District 2626?
District 2626.

HMJr:

You get my own operator.

F:

All right, sir, I'll do that.

HMJr:

Thank you.

F:

You're welcome.

HMJr:

5

April 7, 1942
9:22 a.m.

HMJr:

Hello.

Operator:

Leon Henderson.

HMJr:

Hello.

Leon

Henderson:-

Hello.

HMJr:

Henry speaking.

H:

Yes, sir.

HMJr:

How are you?

H:

Pretty good.

HMJr:

Leon, have you got a minute or two?

H:

Sure.

HMJr:

This business that our various staffs have

H:

Yes, sir.

HMJr:

H:

HMJr:
H:

been talking about, I think it's important
enough that some of us fellows at the top
should talk about it
because we seem to be fairly far apart
on it, and I don t know anything more important.
This 18 what I had in mind: Nelson 18 coming
over for lunch tomorrow on a Lend-Lease matter,

but I could change it, and I was thinking that
possibly just he, you, and I might talk over
this other thing.
Well, I'm going to lunch with the Boss tomorrow.
You are. Well, then that's out.
And - but if I can - and I've got one staff
matter tonight

HMJr:
H:

Yeah.

.....but I'11 be free tomorrow night. I've got

6

-2lunch with Ickes on Thursday. We're getting

ready on this oil rationing thing which is a

honey
HMJr:

Yeah.

H:

.....and that's all - I've

HMJr:

You're free tomorrow night.

H:

Yeah, I'm free tomorrow night and any other
night.

HMJr:

Well, let me take an option on tomorrow night,

H:

All right.

HMJr:

H:

and let's see what happens.

But this thing - how close are you watching

what the discussions have been?

Well, I'm spending a lot of time since I came
back on them, and I'm coming to the meeting
tomorrow morning.

HMJr:

Yeah.

H:

And we've got a number of people working on

them. I've got J. M. - in fact, I'was just

talking with J. M. Clark now, and I'11 be up

to date by tomorrow morning.
HMJr:

Okay.

H:

All right, Henry.

HMJr:

Thank you.

7

April 7, 1942
2:43 p.m.

Walter
Stewart:

Hello, Henry.

HMJr:

How are you?

S:

Very good.

HMJr:

Walter, I've got one of my real financial and

S:

Yes.

HMJr:

Hello.

S:

Yes, I get you.

HMJr:

fiscal headaches.

And there's a - confidentially the Budget particularly - they want different kind of taxes
and different kind of savings, and I wondered

if by any chance you could spend Thursday with

me.
S:

Yes.

HMJr:

Then we could

S:

Thursday of this week.

HMJr:

Yeah. Then we could have lunch together Thursday.

S:

HMJr:

All right.
And I'll tell you what I'll do. I have something on this. Where - it's pretty confidential where could I send it to you?

S:

HMJr:
S:

Now, let's see. If you could get it off today
I'11 get it off today.
Right. Well, then send it to the Institute.
I'11 take care of it. I'11 see that it doesn't
get into anybody else's hands.

HMJr:

Not to your home.

8

-2S:

No.

HMJr:

To the Institute.

HMJr:

Yeah. It will be a little prompter delivery.
Well, it'11 go out tonight.

S:

Right.

S:

HMJr:

S:

HMJr:
S:

HMJr:

And then if and when you come in Thursday, the
man who can tell you as much about this as
anything is George Haas.
Right.

And I'11 tell him to be ready.
That's fine.
And - or Roy Blough - but George has the whole
thing.

S:

I'11 go to George first.

HMJr:

I tell you, it's - I don't know, it's - the

whole thing runs so deep that
S:

HMJr:

Uh huh.

The idea is - well, the basic idea is to stop
this inflation.

S:

Uh huh.

HMJr:

Well, of course, I don't suppose anything is

more important as far as economics at home go.

S:

HMJr:

Uh huh.

But whether they've got the answer or whether
we've got the answer or nobody's got the answer,

I'd like you to take a clean look at it.

S:

Uh huh. Right.

HMJr:

And what I'm sending you is a memorandum to

9

-3the President in which I showed him where I
agreed with what they wanted to do and where
I disagreed.
S:

Right. Right.

HMJr:

Okay?

S:

HMJr:
S:

All right, Henry. I congratulate you on your
half per cent certificate.
Oh, you liked it?
Oh, yes. My God, when I think of the background
of the number of things they were trying to get

you to do
HMJr:
S:

HMJr:

Yeah.

.....I think it's damn good.
Well, I don't think the financial community yet
appreciates what I'm trying to do

S:

HMJr:

S:

HMJr:

No.

..... because I hope in about two weeks to follow
this up with increase of bills.
Yeah.

Then with the increase of bills, and the increase of these certificates, then we ought to
have a sufficient amount of short-term stuff
that the banks can move from one to another.

S:

Right.

HMJr:

And then we can come along with our longer issues.

S:

That's right.

HMJr:

What?

S:

That's right.
But - I don't know whether I've seen you since I

HMJr:

10
4-

told you - did you know that I had to definitely

lay down the law to the Fed on this?
S:

No, but I - when I saw this come out, I had a pretty
accurate imagination about what a fight it had been.

HMJr:

Well, the Fed Board and the Fed of New York finally
said, "Well, we won't do this unless you order us

to do it."

S:

Oh, oh, oh!

HMJr:

"And take full responsibility."

S:

Well, I'll be damned!

HMJr:

Hello.

S:

Yes.

HMJr:

They said, "You've got to order us to do this."

S:

Oh, my God.

HMJr:

So I said, "Well, I order you."

S:

Sure. Oh, my God.

HMJr:

But it got to that point.

S:

Oh, my God.

HMJr:

Yeah.

S:

Yes.

HMJr:

They said, "Unless you give us instructions

S:

that those - and take full responsibility, we
refuse to do it."
Well, I'11 be damned. Well, I think it shows a
lot of good judgment, Henry.

HMJr:

Well, I don't - I hope so; but this one I got
this week is worse.

S:

Right.

11

-5HMJr:

Yeah.

S:

Right.

HMJr:

Yeah.

S:

All right. Well, I'll be down then Thursday
morning.

HMJr:

S:

And I'11 save lunch and 28 much time after lunch;
but in the morning and what I've got to send you,

I think that you can get the story.
I'11 read that. Then I'll go to George.

HMJr:

Thank you.

S:

Then I'll see you.

HMJr:

Thank you.

S:

That's fine.

HMJr:

Good-bye.

S:

All right. Good-bye.

12
THE SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY
WASHINGTON

April 7, 1942

Dear Walter:

I am looking forward to seeing you at

lunch on Thursday.

I am sending you herewith, for your con-

fidential information, the following:

I. A photostatic copy of the memorandum

prepared by the Bureau of the Budget.

II. A copy of my memorandum to the President.

III. series of tables, which you may or

may not have seen, showing how we ar-

rive at the so-called "gap" of $11
billions.

IV. A copy of a memorandum of a meeting

which took place in Mr. Paul's office

V.

yesterday.
A Department of Commerce memo on rationing.

I would appreciate it, after you have read this

material, if you would return it for my files.
Yours sincerely,

Henry

Mr. Walter W. Stewart,
Institute for Advanced Study,
Princeton University,
Princeton, New Jersey.

13

A WAR PROGRAM TO PREVENT INFLATION

STRIETLY CONFIDENTIAL
BUREAU OF THE BUDGET

March 26. 1942
Revised

14
A WAR PROGRAM TO PREVENT INFIATION
INTRODUCTORY STATEMENT

The President announced in his Budget Message that "an
integrated program

will enable us to finance the war effort

without danger of inflation. This is a difficult task. But it must
be done and it can be done."

The time for such an integrated program is here. Inflation-

ary prices are not only a threat but a reality. The inflationary
price rise is about to develop into the inflationary spiral.
In line with the successful development of the war production program, war expenditures increase rapidly. The $62 billion expenditure estimate for fiscal year 1943, which was received with skepticism
when announced ten weeks ago, appears now to be an underestimate. Such

a sudden great increase in government expenditures must have a tremendous
impact on the economy.

These large expenditures become income of wage earners,

farmers, and businessmen. Incomes, especially in the lower brackets,

rose during the last year as never before in this or any other country.
This development is bound to accelerate. During the past eighteen
months, while the war program was being launched, it was still possible
to increase the supply of civilian goods at the same time. Now we have
reached the stage in which conversion makes necessary the curtailment

of many industries. In other lines, expansion has reached its definite
limits.

15

-2By the end of this year it is expected that between 15
and 20 million workers will produce war material and annitions.

They will receive wages and will spend but they will not add to the
supply of civilian goods. The discrepancy between the generation
of incomes on a gigantic scale, and the ourtailment in goods creates
the problem which we have to face.

The initial development of such a discrepancy has already

caused an increase in the cost of living of 12 percent during the

last eighteen months. This increase in the cost of living in turn
has induced wage demands and rises in wage rates. The increases in

wage rates in turn have added to the inflationary pressure.
At this time there is pending before the War Labor Board
a demand by steel workers for an increase in pay which if allowed will
be the "go" sign for many other industries. General Motors workers
have already announced demands for a substantial pay increase when

their contract expires on April 28, 1942.
The agricultural bloc in the meantime is trying to assure
the farmers still further increases in prices and parity payments.

A tax bill providing stiff levies on profits and incomes is
pending before Congress. Interested groups exert all possible pressure for emasculating the tax program. They may be successful.

Everyone admisits that full conversion of the country to war

makes sacrifices imperative, but each group tries to shift the sacrifices to others.

16
-3The administration is taying to deal with the situation by
a variety of unrelated measures. Each measure encounters a combina-

tion of interests which is able to impede or defeat the specific program. The administration time is pushed into the defensive. Such a
condition may undermine public morals and seriously impair the war

effort.
Bold and concerted action is required. Inflation cannot be
stopped as long as wage increases, as well as rising government
expenditures, create additional purchasing power. Wage increases

cannot be stopped as long as prices rise. The price rise cannot be
stopped unless part of the rapidly increasing purchasing power is
absorbed by fiscal measures. Fiscal measures cannot be effective as
long as businessmen, wage earners, and farmers can make up for taxes

by increasing their incomes. Only simultaneous action on all fronts
can stop the inflationary spiral. Such action must impose sacrifices,
but the whole program will be greeted with enthusiasm and relief if it

is made convincingly clear that all interests are restricted at the
same time and with the greatest possible fairness in distribution of
the war burden.

Such a program must contain only measures absolutely necessary

for the objective. No one should have reason to say that the administration is using the emergency to put over extraneous legislation under
shotgun pressure.

An integrated anti-inflationary program presented in the

17

-4. most dramatic way will allay class bickerings and will avert the
most inequitable of situations for the war effort and the postwar

period, 1. .., inflationary price rises. Such a program will electrify
the country; eliminate pettifogging; fortify the war spirit; give
the offensive to the administration; and show to the American people

that on this home-front the sickening slogan will not again apply

"too little and too late."

18
A MAR PROGRAM TO PREVENT INVLATION

(Tentative Outline)
INTRODUCTION

1. There is wrgent need for immediate comprehensive action to stop infla
tion. The need is evidenced by extensive and impending price and wage
developments, together with the rapid increase is war expenditures,
probably in excess of budget estimates.

2. Inflationary pressure is growing. Its prospective magnitude is measured

by the extent to which there will be an increase in consumers' domand 1.0.. in the purchasing power that consumers will seek to spend - over the
available supply of consumers' goods measured at present prices. The
amount of inflationary pressure, 18 revenue recommendations of the Budget
Message are enacted but no other action is taken, may be about $20-25

billion (estimate to be verified). lives assuming early wage and price
freesing. the inflationary pressure will be about $10-15 billion for the
fiscal year 1943.

3. The inflationary spiral can be curbed only by a comprehensive and into

grated program attacking all inflationary factors at the same time. All
the practicable methods of meeting the problem are interdependent. No

one step will suffice; each is necessary to insure success for the others.
4. The program presented here is intended to lapse after the end of the var.
The major steps in this program are enumerated below in four main categories Prices, Wages and Salaries, Fiscal Measures, and Other Controls.
A. PRICES - RETAIL, WHOLESALE AND PRODUCERS'

1. Treese price eeilings generally at market as of April 5.

(Certain agricultural commodities which cannot be frosen under

current legislation at less than 110 percent of parity are

covered below. I

2. Make provision for subsequent alignment of retail, wholesale and producer
prices, principally by holding retail prices rigid and squeesing down
'distributore' and producers' prices, but partly by adjustment of retail
prices in special cases.
3. Provide for stimulating production through subsidies where production would
otherwise be inadequate.

4. Repeal at once the present statutory restriction against freesing the
price of agricultural commodities below 110 percent of parity.

19

at market

5. Desediately thereafter place price ceilings/c remining agricultural
commodities as permitted in 4. except at the form.

6. With respect to prices at the farms
a. Place ceilings at market on comodities with prices
above parity.

b. For farm prices now below parity proceed as follows:

For basic modities place oeilings at parity
as of April 15, and

For nonbasic commodities place ceilings at parity

only if prices reach parity.

7. Price ceilings should be accompanied by price supporting devices
as follows:
For wheat, permit price support or subsidy in war bends
up to parity for domestic human consumption and 50 percent

of parity for remainder of crop.
For cotton and tobacco, permit price support up to parity

for domestic consumption and lend-lease, and 50 percent of

parity for remainder of crop.
For corn, permit price support up to 85 percent of parity
and remove acreage restrictions.

8. Remove the restriction, new in H.R. 6709, on sale of government-hold
stocks of farm products at less than parity.

9. Legislative authorisation for freesing all rents should be obtained,
(Measures designed to freese low-rent residential rents in
important areas are in preparation by C.P.A.)
B. WAGES AND SALARIES

1. Freese all basic wage and salary rates as of April 5, excepting rates
below 40 cents an hour.
a.

Under 40 cents an hour, encourage adjustments needed for

health and efficiency, but avoid taking the position that all
wage rates below 40 cents should necessarily move up to 40
cents.

b.

Permit individuals to continue to qualify for higher wage and
salary rates through promotion or transfer to higher rated jobs.

20

c. In exceptional cases, through administrative control, permit upward adjustment of basic wage and salary rates above 40 cents an

hour in war industries whennecessary to obtain or retain an adequate supply of labor.

2. Hours of work and overtime:

a. Retain the 40-hour week provisions of present law but declare
by proclamation that 48 hours shall be the normal work week in
war industries. The work week for industry in general should be
increased as rapidly as possible to a 48-hour basis.
b. In all cases in which payment of time and one-half above 40 hours
is made, provide that the extra amount above straight time shall
be paid only in war bonds of a special series which cannot be
redeemed until after the war.
3.

Encourage 3- or 4-shift operation; approve payment of appropriate differentials for night work when necessary to secure labor for 24-hour operation.

4. Declare that existing arrangements for collective bargaining between enployers and employees should be maintained for the duration of the war. (1)
C. FISCAL MEASURES

1. Support the pending 7 billion tax proposals of the Treasury. In particular the profit taxes as proposed are an essential part of a comprehensive

anti-inflationary program. Request stiffening of excess profits tax in

lieu of profit limitation.

2.

Add to the present tax bill fiscal measures designed to reach mass purchasing power.

Alternative At Increase the personal income tax yield by about 2

billion per annum above the pending Treasury proposal, and accelerate

collections through the following provisions:

a. Reduce exemptions to $1,000 for married and $500 for single
persons: and the deduction for a dependent to $250. (Under
present law these are 11,500, $750. and $400.)

b. Tax the first $500 of net taxable income at 12 percent; the
next $500 at 16 percent; then follow the rates processed by
Treasury.
C.

Require withholding of the tax by employers and others, start-

ing July 1, at the ra'e of 12 percent.

21

d. Substitute compulsory borrowing on a eliding scale for tax

payments in lower income groups. For example, give war bonds

equal to 80 percent of income tax liability to each taxpayer
with less than $1,000 net taxable income; for taxpayers with
higher incomes, let the bonds equal a declining percentage of
the tax liability; for incomes of $10,000 (1) or more, no bonds
would be given.

Make the bonis payable over a ten-year period after and of war.
Provide machinery for immediate redemption of war bonds in cases
of hardship.

Alternative Bt Leave Treasury income tax provosal unchanged. Institute a separate Universal Saving system for all individuals with incomes
above $500 (single), $1,000 (families). withhold 5 percent of whole
income, less a credit of $15 for each member of family; give war bonds
for amounts withheld. (Adjust for borderline incomes).

3. Introduce a retail sales tax with exemption of certain life necessities,
such as milk, bread, and medicines, at a rate of 2 percent beginning
July 1, 1942, of 5 percent January 1, 1943.

4. Recommend early legislative consideration of the proposed $2 billion Social
Security Program.

D. OTHER CONTROLS

1. Rationing.

2. Direct control of:
a. Inventory accumulation.
b. Construction of business plant and equipment.

c. Residential housing.
3. Credit

a. Limit instalment controls to non-rationed goods.
4. Further measures for facilitating production.

3-25-4214

22

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL
April 3, 1942.
My dear Mr. President:
You asked me to let you have tonight a memorandum

on the cost of living and what ought to be done about
it. 1 am enclosing such a memorandum, together with a

chart in which we have tried to show under three different
assumptions approximately how the estimated deficit of
$39 billions for the coming fiscal year may be financed.
Everybody in the Treasury is in agreement that we
should not leave a stone unturned to keep the cost of

living as nearly as possible at the present level. You
will notice in the plan proposed we have not limited ourselves to fiscal measures for we do not believe that

fiscal measures alone are adequate to meet the situation.

If we adopt a program of strict rationing, which we in

the Treasury strongly favor, the amount of money available

for Federal borrowing will be greatly increased and it will
come from sources that will not be inflationary. This will
very
greatly modify the divisions of the chart here presented.
There are radical points of difference between our
conclusions and those of Harold Smith's group, as you will
notice by reading the annexed outline and discussion.
We

feel strongly that it would be a mistake to yield to the
clamor for a sales tax. Rather we think the revenue bill
will contain a sales tax unless resistance to a sales tax
is greatly intensified. One very cogent reason against
consenting to a sales tax is that we think the effect of

recommending a sales tax would be that Congress would use

th S as an excuse to make drastic cuts in the Administration's proposals for increases in personal and corporate
incomes and profits, with the result that we should get
no more revenue but simply have shifted the source of
revenue to the lower income groups.

We object on the same goounds to lowering the personal
exemptions and we have in mind that the typical American

23

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL
family does not save on an income of $1250 a year
or less, and that a man with a $750 income already pays

$139 a year in Federal, state and local taxes.

We also, as you will note, are in strong disagree-

ment on the proposal to freeze wages, which we think
unnecessary, impractical and exceedingly dangerous.

We believe that the system of voluntary savings
through the sale of war savings bonds and stamps should
be continued and should not be complicated or destroyed
at this time by any compulsory savings plan. We are
inaugurating a system of quotas which we believe will
result in pushing up the sales of war savings bonds to

a billion a month by the end of July. We will know

between now and July 1 whether we can reach this result.
Both Mr. Smith's group and ourselves want to get another

$5 billions from savings. We feel that we have an excellent chance to get it through the volunteer method and
that that method is much to be preferred.
The staffs of the Budget, OPA and the Treasury will

work continuously from now until Wednesday morning when

we will meet again and see If we cannot get a closer
meeting of the minds. The fact that you stated at Cabinet
that you did not propose to do anything for three weeks

certainly should give all of us time to give you a com-

prehensive plan.

Sincerely yours,

Secretary of the Treasury.
The President,
The White House.

CC: Harry Hopkins
Harold Smith
Lauchlin Currie
he0:pm

24

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL
April 3. 1942
A PROGRAM TO CONTROL THE COST OF LIVING

During the coming fiscal year there will be at least $10
to $15 billions of money in the pockets of the people of the

United States with nowhere to go. What can we do to keep that
surplus purchasing power from driving up the cost of living?
Things That Should Be Done Now

(1) Freeze the price ceilings of consumer goods, services
and rents at current levels.

This should be the first step. It is not in

itself enough, but is an essential part of a complete
program.

(2) Urge the speedy enactment of the entire Administration
tax program.

This $7.6 billion program is the most that we can
expect to get at this time. It is a balanced program
which should have substantial effect in restricting
consumer demand.

(3) Enlarge scope of social security benefits and levy
additional social security taxes as proposed by the President.
This will reduce consumer demand particularly in
the lower income levels without having adverse effects
to be expected from other devices dipping into incomes
close to the subsistence level.

(4) Intensify the drive fro sale of war savings bonds
introducing quota features to raise an estimated $12 billions
in fiscal year 1943.
This will have a substantial effect in reducing
consumer purchasing power because the big increase is
expected to come from the wage earner through the newly

developed plan of voluntary payroll savings.

25
- 11 -

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIA

(5) Increase surveillance over credit and impose further
restrictions on installment credit, speculative loans, loans for

consumption purposes, and all credit for non-productive purposes.

The $9 billions of outstanding consumers credit
should be reduced by further restrictions of credit for
consumer purposes.

(6) Increase scope of rationing to cover as rapidly as

possible all consumer goods where shortages exist or are expected
to develop.

Rationing of goods on a broad scale is clearly

inevitable if there is to be anything like a fair dis-

tribution of consumer goods which will be available if
the war demand intensifies and existing stocks are

depleted. Rationing is fair. It makes available the
limited supplies of necessaries of life to poor and
rich alike.

(7) Give immediate consideration to a plan for restricting

or rationing total expenditures which individuals may make for
consumption goods, using income as a guide as in progressive
surtax brackets.

This would not be a substitute for all rationing
of goods, but it would eliminate the need for the

specific rationing of many commodities. Administrative
problems make this a matter for continued study rather
than for immediate action.
Things That Should NOT Be Done

(1) general retail sales tax should be strongly opposed.
The lower income groups are already disproportion-

ately taxed. The sales tax would upset price ceilings

and immensely increase the burden of tax administration.

Unless active steps are taken, a general sales tax will

be substituted in the current tax bill for part of the
income taxes now proposed.

26

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL
- 111 (2) Income tax exemptions should NOT be lowered.
Personal exemptions have been lowered twice in

the last two years and the increase in the cost of
living is in effect lowering them further month by
month. Certainly the already heavy taxes on the
low-income group should not be further increased
until the various loopholes amounting to about
$1 billion in revenue are closed by the Congress.

(3) NO form of compulsory saving should be enacted or
proposed at this time.

It would probably destroy completely the voluntary
savings plan now under way, at least so far as the
lower income groups are concerned. It might well
result in forcing immediate redemption of a very large

proportion of the $8 billions worth of United States
savings and defense bonds now outstanding.

(4) Proposal to freeze wages should be strongly resisted.
It would have a disastrous effect on morale, would
be grossly unfair, and would be discriminatory against
wage employees. It is unnecessary if other steps are

taken to stabilize the cost of living.

27

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL
A PROGRAM TO CONTROL THE COST OF LIVING

(Discussion of outline)
Few effective steps have yet been taken to deal with the

rising cost of living. Tax increases at the rate of approxi-

mately five billions a year have been imposed but prior to
March 1942 were only partially reflected in funds available
for consumer expenditure. Some price ceilings have been
imposed but their number and importance have not been such

as to affect the cost of living substantially. Consumer

rationing is not yet in effect. Action to control credit

has not yet been fully developed from the standpoint of inflation control. The prospect of shortages and higher prices
probably has done more to stimulate price increases than has
been done to counteract them.

I. Things that should be done now.

1. Price ceilings
Most of the things that should be done now are for the
purpose of reducing consumer demand. Along with all of these

it is important that the cost of living be stabilized by fix-

ing price ceilings at current price levels for all goods and
services. In the absence of general price ceilings the price
situation will become very confused. Profiteers will take

advantage of temporary shortages and "runs" on goods for which

shortages and higher prices are anticipated will be stimulated.

It is too much to expect that prices can be rigidly frozen

with no flexibility whatever. There are maladjustments among
prices which must be corrected. Furthermore, some prices must
be allowed to rise if goods are to be produced at all, unless
extensive subsidization of producers is to be provided.
However, if appropriate measures are taken to reduce
consumer demand it should be possible to set price ceilings

in such a manner that the cost of living will not rise more
than perhaps 5 percent a year. Experience has shown that

price control can be effective. The Office of Price
Administration's analyses of the Bureau of Labor Statistics'

--

28

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL
-

wholesale price index shows almost complete absence of rise of
formally controlled prices between March and December, 1941,
whereas uncontrolled prices have risen from 100 to 117 percent.
2. Treasury tax program
The Treasury program now before Congress proposes tax

increases to produce annual revenue in excess of 7 billion
dollars. It is a balanced program based upon ability to pay
and includes drastic increases in individual income tax rates,
in corporate taxes, estate and gift taxes, and in excise taxes
on luxuries and scarcity goods. This program when enacted
should have a substantial effect in restricting consumer demand

and thus controlling the cost of living. It will not have any
substantial effect until it is enacted, since discussion in

Congress roams over a wide field and leaves the greatest uncer-

tainty as to the character of the program which will be written

into law.

Any substantial changes in this program proposed by the

Administration would further greatly confuse the situation,

delay enactment, and on these accounts materially increase during

the interval inflationary tendencies. There is little or no

prospect of increasing the tax yield beyond the amount asiced for
in the Treasury program. The prospect is rather that any demend
for a change in the program now would only result in a tax bill
with lowered exemptions and a sales tax at the expense of the
proposed corporate and individual surtaxes.

3. Social Security Program
The enlargement of social security benefits, coupled with
an increase in social security taxes in the amount of approximately 2 billion dollars, would have a decided effect in reducing
consumer demand, particularly in the lower income levels, without having adverse effects to be expected from other devices for
dipping into incomes that are close to the subsistence level.
Congressional consideration and passage of the program should
be pushed aggressively.

4. Voluntary war savings

The possibilities of additional voluntary savings for the
purpose of restricting consumer demand through the sale of war
savings bonds have not been by any means fully exploited. An

29

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL
-3effective organization has been built and the experience of
December and January indicates clearly that by pursuing payroll
allotment and quota methods sales can be increased to a level
of approximately one billion dollars a month, or an increase

at the rate of approximately five billion dollars a year, which

will have a very decided effect upon consumer purchasing power

and should be a material factor in improving the price situation.

5. Credit restrictions
There are now outstanding some 9 billion dollars of consumer
credit. Much can be done to cut down this source of consumer

buying by extending controls already authorized by law. Installment selling of consumer's goods, book credit, loans for consumption purposes -- all of which have the effect of increasing
the demand for goods and thus contributing to a rise in the cost

of living -- can be drastically curtailed. Bankers of the
nation have shown great willingness to cooperate with the

Government and it is believed they will be willing to enlist
in an effort to impose credit controls that would help bring
about the desired contraction of consumer credit.

6. Rationing of goods
We have hardly begun to feel the impact of shortages in
consumer goods. This impact has been delayed by the availability

of large inventories and the fact that war production has not
yet by any means reached its full peak. Rationing of goods on
a broad scale is clearly inevitable if there is to be anything
like a fair distribution of the supply of consumer goods that
is to be available as the war demand intensifies and existing
stocks are depleted. Rationing is equitable. It imposes the
secrifices of war on poor and rich alike. Taxes and other fiscal

measures used without rationing leave the rich free to consume as
they please while the poor bear the burden of the shortages.

The rationing program must move rapidly. The difficulties
are admittedly great, but the job must be faced. In establishing the machinery for rationing it is probable that time could
be saved and duplication avoided by the extensive use of exist-

ing agencies of the Government. These could be supplemented by
the much wider use of voluntary effort now frequently employed on

enterprises that are mere outlets for patriotic energy but con-

tribute very little to the war effort.

30

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL

--

7. Total expenditure limitation or rationing
It should be possible very greatly to simplify the problem

of rationing by en over-all plan of limiting or rationing total
expenditure by individuels. This could almost certainly be

applied to the total amount of money spent on commodities that

are necessities of life and possibly to the money spent on all
goods and services for which shortages are anticipated. Expenditure rationing would have the double effect of conserving supply
end diverting funds, which would otherwise go into consumer
expenditure, to investment in Government securities. Adminis-

trative problems make this = artter for continued study rather
than for immediate action.

II. Things that should not be done now.
1. No general sales tax
The proposal to obtain a substantial or even major proportion of edditional Federal revenue from R general retail
erleg tax is : proposal to increase the tax burden on the poor
end hold down the burden on the well-to-do. The lover income
groups -re sleedy digproportionstely heavily taxed through
Federal excise trxes end more especially through state and

local taxes that violate the principle of ability to pay.

The general retail sales tax has other disadvantages and
dangers. It would usset price ceilings and induce well based
demands for wege increases. Its reparent simplicity is deceptive
for the burden of reministration and collection would be immense.

It would introduce : form of tex into our tax structure that
would be likely to nullify many years of effort to P complish
on ecuitable distribution of the tax burden.
Unless active steps are taken, E general sales trx will
be presed 08 part of the current tax bill, and the revenue

onticiosted from it used P.S on excuse for lowering the proposed
tax rates on corporations and individuals.

2. No lovering of personal exemotions
The personal exemptions of the income tax should not be

lowered at this time. They have been lovered twice in the last
two years and the increase in the cost of living is in effect

STRICTLY CONFIDENT 31

-5lowering them further month by month. Certainly the already
heavy texes on the low-income grow should not be further
increased until the various loopholes amount to about one
billion dollars in revenue are closed by the Congress.
3. No conculsory seving
The introduction of any scheme of compulsory saving at
this time would probably destroy completely the voluntary

saving plan not under very at lenet so far as it effects the

lover income groups. The voluntary plan hrs S not been given

a sufficiently thorough trial to justify its abandonment. As

previously indicated, it is being rapidly developed and expended.
There are et present outstanding United States savings and
defense bonds having : total redemotion value in excess of

eight billions of dollars. A compulsory envings plan night
ell have the result of forcing immediate redemotion of a very
large proportion of these outstending securities end to the
extent that any such redemotion occurred it would nullify the
effect of compulsory saving and other efforts to restrict
consumer expenditure.

Any compulsory savings plan, to be of elective, must accord-

ingly be on 0 very large scale. Such a plan should not be
adooted unlone and until the voluntary system, combined with
other measures hrs proven

4. No lage freezing
Besides being grossly inequitable, any attempt by statute
to freeze weges at existing levels would certainly have a
dierstrous effect on public morele. Labor orgenizations have
led a long and fairly successful fight egginst the treatment
of human labor and personal service as a commodity. A proposal
to freeze veges regards labor 02 0 commodity and proposes to
discriminate against vege employees by placing an arbitrary

ceiling on their income and by friling to place similar ceilings

on incomes derived.from other forms of personal services, as
incomes from professions, incomes from trade and the higher
levels of personal service incomes from industry.

Wage freezing is en impractical proposal. It would
probably not achieve its objectives since 3 multitude of
exceptions would have to be made for special situations.

d

falu

32

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL
-6Wage ceilings would have to be adjusted to make additional
allovences for those who are now underpaid, to take care of
changes in the cost of living. to meet urgent demands of ver
production industries, and to prevent en undue amount of
labor shifting from occupation to occupation.

Further eve, if the cost of living is stabilized the

principal pressure for wage increases will have been removed.
The mood of labor to improve its position, which was apparent
in the early stages of the defense program, has largely dis-

appeared. Labor hrs given up the right to strike. National

machinery has been established to control wages. There seems
to be no need for setting a celling on veges as = method of

stabilizing the cost of living.

The sound objectives of vege freezing can be attained
by improving existing machinery for vege adjustments and

through efforts to accomplish n better distribution of labor
supply through increased activity on the part of Federal and

local agencies already set us for this purpose. Wage demends
u to the present moment have not been excessive nor has
labor been unduly favored in the increased industrial activity
caused by the ver oro rem. Labor organisations have gone to

great lengthe to cooperate in the vsr effort. In this situr-

tion there seems nothing to varrant a proposal of extremely
coubtful value at best which could not be interpreted otherwise
than as 0 slop in the face of labor.

33

INITIAL PHSLIMINARY ESTIMATES

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL

Table I

Analysis of the Diseguilibrium Implicit in the Estimated Flow of Goods and Services and the Estimated Application of Incomes to Various Uses
Fiscal Year 1943

(Based on a national income of $115 billions and a rise in the cost of living of about 10 from December 19

(In billions of dollars)
Flow of Goods and Services
A. To be purchased by Government:
1. Defense expenditure:
a. Total
b. Less: Prepayments, land and

offshore, etc
C. Net defense expenditure

Application of Incomes code available
(Under existing habit patterns and pressures)
A. Available for Government use:
1. Assured Taxes:
B. Existing business taxes 1
b. Existing personal taxes
C. New business and personal taxes 2/
d. Total taxes

56.6

2.5
54.1

2. Other public expenditures:
a. Federal

b. State and local
C. Total other public expenditure

16.7
6.8

7.0
30.5

2. Potential - For buying Government

6.1

securities, directly or indirectly

7.8

(Unabsorbed seving, depreciation
and other allowances):
a. Unabsorbed personal saving 3/

13.9

3. Total Government

68.0

b. Social security net accumulation
C. Unabsorbed business saving 4/

d. Reserves for existing taxes

e. Reserves for new taxes
f. Unabsorbed depreciation and other
allowances 1/ 5A
6. Total

15.5
4.0
.3

1.7
0.5

4.5
26.5

3. Total income available for Government use

B. To be purchased by private persons:
1. Private capital expenditures:
a. Plant and equipment
b. Inventories:
(1) Increase in volume -.5

B. Available for private use:
1. Income absorbed by private capital
expenditures

5.5

a. Absorbed depreciation and other
allowances 1/ 5/
b. Absorbed business saving 1;
C. Absorbed personal saving
d. Total

(2) Increase in value. 1.5

(3) Total
C. Foreign balance
d. Residential housing construction.
e. Total
2. Consumption goods and services:
a. Durables
b. Non-durables and services
c. Total

57.0

1.0

-.5

4.5
1.5
.5

6.5

.5

6.5

2. Income available for consumer spending

68.0

3. Total income available for private use

79.0

3.5
64.5

3. Total private
C. National gross product plus inventory revaluations

85.5

74.5

142.5

C. National gross product plus inventory revaluations

142.5

February 4. 1942

Not included in national income concept used by Department of Commerce.

In estimating personal and business saving, the revenue to be obtained from new taxes is arbitrarily divided 1/3 each from (1) corporation income and
excess profits taxes, (2) excise taxes, and (3) individual income, estate and gift taxes.
Total personal saving, exclusive of social security net accumulation, is estimated at $16.0 billions.
Total business saving is estimated at $1.8 billions.
Total depreciation and other allowances is estimated at $9.0 billions.

Note: There is a disequilibrium implicit in the above figures, amounting to $11.0 billions. resulting from the discrepancy between the goods and
services the Government requires and the income available for Government use. This disequilibrium may be solved by transferring income now
estimated to be available for private use so that it becomes available for Government use. This may be accomplished by increasing taxes,
or
by increasing saving. either by voluntary or forced means, or by the use of direct price and rationing controls. Unless the disequilibrius
is
of
solved by changing the application of incomes, however, 14 will solve itself by changing the flow of goods and services as a result
price rises which will occur in addition to the 10 percent rise in the cost of living allowed for. This will in turn cause Government
expenditures
to increase in order to purchase the same volume of goods and services and so further complicate the problem of raising funds to
pay
for the expenditures.

Table II

34

Estimated Sources of Funds to Finance Budgetary Deficit and Federal Agencies Financed with Treasury Funds
Fiscal year 1943

(In billions of dollars)
Distribution between types of Government securities
Bew

Sources of funds

Total
;amount

Savings security
bonds

Series
E.

F.

and

to

aboorb

deferred
business
expen-

0

ditures

New

security
to

absorb

long-term
non-

Marketable securities

Special
Tax

notes

market

issues

Bold to

corporations Sold

Sold

to

trust
funds

other than

to

:individuals

funds

Sold

to

:insurance
insurance companies:

banks

and

1. Current savings and accumulations

for
to

banks
1/

companies

Subtotal
marketable

securities

estimated on the basis of existing
habit patterns and pressures
(based on a national income of
$115 billions and a rise in the
cost of living of about 10% from
December 1941):
15.5

7.0

1.1

3. Business saving

.2

.9

4.0
.3

.2

.2

1.9

4.0

4.0

-

1. Personal saving

2. Social security trust funds

6.3

.1

.1

4. Corporate tax accruals in ex-

.1

-

.1

cess of tax payments:
-

-

-

-

.4

-

.2

-

-

.2

-

.5

-

1.7

1.1

1.1

.3

.3

-

-

(b) New taxes

-

(a) Existing taxes
5. Excess of bookkeeping charges

for depreciation and similar
items over actual outlays

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

revenues over expenditures

.2

2.7

2.9

8.2

10.7

-

.2

-

1.2

-

.2

-

4.5

6. Net surplus of State and local

-

therefor

7. Total from current savings and
accumulations

26.5

7.2

3.0

1.5

2.6

1.2

.8

4.0

.2

.4

1.9

II. Funds available only at the cost
of an additional price rise:
1. Funds derived by converting old

idle balances into active bal-

ances through purchase of Government securities:
1.2

1.2

1.4

.1

.3

-

-

.2

-

.2

1.0

-

1.5

-

(a) By individuals
(b) By corporations

(c) Total from old idle bal-

-

-

1.4

39.8

8.7

3.8

2.6

8.8

8.8

8.8

17.0

19.5

-

1.2

8.8

-

-

1.5

-

13.3

-

8.5

.4

-

3. Total under Group II

1.5

-

2. Residual balance which will
have to be borrowed from banks.

4.5

-

ances

III. Total berroving according to the
budget (but this will have to be
increased as a result of prices
rising even higher than allowed for
if borroving listed under Group II
is used)

1 Includes securities sold to Federal Reserve Danis

1.2

4.0

.2

.4

1.9

March 5. 1942

35

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL

ESTIMATED SOURCES OF FUNDS TO FINANCE THE BUDGETARY DEFICIT
AND FEDERAL AGENCIES FINANCED WITH TREASURY FUNDS
Fiscal Year 1943
(Dollar figures are billions)

Inflationary borrowing

Noninflationary borrowing

Assumption 1

Assumption 2

Existing habit patterns and pressures

Noninflationary borrowing

Inflationary borrowing

$28.8
11.0

Moninflationary borrowing

Total borrowing

$39.8

Total borrowing

Inflationary borrowing

ADDITIONAL PERSONAL
SAVING CAUSED BY
RATIONING

BANKS'

$5.5

$8.8

Assumption 3

Commodity rationing and price fixing
assumed to be 50% effective in diverting
excess consumer income to personal saving
$34.3
$39.8

$3.3

Noninflationary borrowing

$39.8

Total borrowing

$39.8

Inflationary borrowing

5.5

BANKS

Either (a) commodity rationing and price
fixing assumed to be 100% effective or
(b) purchasing power rationing

IDLE
IDLE

FUNDS

FUNDS

$2.3

$2.2
IDLE

BUSINESS FUNDS

FUNDS4

$2.3

UNDER EXISTING
PATTERN

ADDITIONAL PERSONAL SAVING
CAUSED BY RATIONING

87.0

$11.0
PERSONAL SAVING
UNDER EXISTING PATTERN 142

IDLE FUNDS
$2.2

$19.5

BUSINESS FUNDS

UNDER EXISTING
PATTERN
IDLE FUNDS4
$2.3

PERSONAL SAVING

UNDER EXISTING PATTERN 162

$7.0

$19.5

PERSONAL SAVING

UNDER EXISTING PATTERN

BUSINESS FUNDS

UNDER EXISTING

$19.5

PATTERN
$7.0

$5.5 BILLIONS OF ADDITIONAL PERSONAL SAVING
BROUGHT ABOUT BY RATIONING (INDICATED BY
CROSS MATCHED AREA) HAVE REPLACED AN EQUAL
AMOUNT OF INFLATIONARY BORROWING FROM BANKS.

$11 BILLIONS OF ADDITIONAL PERSONAL SAVING
BROUGHT ABOUT BY RATIONING (INDICATED BY
CROSS MATCHED AREA) HAVE REPLACED AN EQUAL
AMOUNT OF INFLATIONARY BORROWING FROM BANKS
AND IDLE FUNDS.

NOTE: BASIC
ESTIMATES ASSUME A NATIONAL INCOME OF $115 BILLIONS AND A RISE IN THE COST OF LIVING OF 10% FROM DECEMBER 1941, BUT THIS SITUATION WILL ONLY
OCCUR IF INFLATIONARY BORROWING IS NOT USED.
1.

INCLUDES SOCIAL SECURITY

2. INCLUDES INDIRECT BORROWING (SUCH AS FROM BANKS AND INSURANCE COMPANIES) AS WELL AS DIRECT BORROWING FROM THESE SOURCES.
3. INFLATIONARY BORROWING ONLY. ADDITIONAL SUWS WOULD BE BORROWED FROM BANKS BUT WOULD BE OFFSET BY REPAYMENTS OF LOANS AND ACCUMULATION
IN THE FORM OF BANK DEPOSITS. THESE ADDITIONAL SUMS WOULD, THEREFORE, COME ULTIMATELY FROM NONINFLATIONARY SOURCES.
4. To OFFSET EXPENDITURES FOR GOODS AND SERVICES NOT PART OF THE CURRENT NATIONAL INCOME.

OF

SAVINGS

Office of the Secretary of the Treasury
Division of Research and Statistics

B-292

Extra

Confidential
Memorandum of the Conference in

Mr. Paul's Office, April 6, 1942

The group from the Budget, War Production Board, O.P.A., and

Agriculture, are of the opinion that a tax and compulsory savings
program such as is indicated below would yield approximately $6 1/4

billion during fiscal 1943. They believe that amount raised in the
manner indicated, together with the general program indicated

below, would be adequate to prevent inflation in the initial period.
If #1/2 billion additional a month could be raised during the
first 6 months of fiscal year 1943 through an aggressive program of
voluntary savings in the lower income groups, such as the Treasury
is planning, the amount raised obviously would be equivalent to the
amount that they wish to raise through additional taxes and com-

pulsory saving. But the group feel that the raising of $6 1/4
billion that way would not do the trick because they could not get
the other elements in the program, chiefly freezing prices and
rents, unless taxes on the lower groups are increased.
They also definitely believe that it would be impossible to
secure through anti-inflationary voluntary savings from the low
income groups an additional $1/2 billion a month by July, unless

the methods used under the term "voluntary" were actually coercive

to a certain extent. Finally, even if it were possible to raise

an additional #1/2 billion a month through the Treasury program,
they are strongly opposed to a so-called voluntary method of
raising the money which in fact would be coercive as compared
with outright compulsory saving.
The group from the Budget, War Production Board, O.P.A.,
and Agriculture recommend the following general program to

prevent an inflationary rise in prices:
1. Freezing prices and rents;

2. Freezing wage rates and salaries;

3. Drastic restriction of consumer credit;

4. Specific rationing;

36

37
-2-

5. The $2 billion additional from social security levies
(otherwise additional from forced savings).

6. The present tax program modified to raise another

$6 1/4 billion is as follows:

1. Lowering income tax exemptions to $500 for
individuals, $1,000 for married persons, and
$250 for each dependent, which would raise
2. Compulsory saving at the rate of 5% on income
with single income earners of $500 or less
and married income earners of $1,000 or less
excluded, which would raise

3. A war consumption tax of 5% to take effect
January 1, 1943 for the second half of the
fiscal year, which would raise

$2 billion

$3 billion

$1 1/4 billion
1

4. 100 percent excess-profits tax
5. Confiscation of all income above $50,000

1

or $100,000
Total

$6 1/4 billion
The group feels that this integrated program, including the

raising of the additional $6 1/4 billion in fiscal 1943, is
sufficient to prevent an inflationary rise in prices for the

initial period of that year, and considers the recommendations
as an integrated program that should be adopted as a whole.

1/ No estimate.

38

DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE
BUREAU OF FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC COMMERCE

WASHINGTON

CONFIDENTIAL

March 12, 1942.
DIVISION OF RESEARCH AND STATISTICS
RATIONING

By - Arthur R. Upgren and Richard M. Bissell, Jr.
Purpose of the Memorandum

The purpose of this memorandum is three-fold. It is (1)
to indicate the function of a broad system of rationing as a device
for controlling expenditure and preventing inflation as well as for
equating supply and demand in particular markets; (2) to develop the
general principles which should determine the form of the rationing
system; (3) to outline a set of provisions which would establish a
general rationing system embodying the principles referred to above.
The central economic problems facing the Federal Government at the present time are: (1) to maximize war production by the

diversion of productive resources from civilian activities to the

manufacture of war goods; (2) to secure an equitable distribution of
the available supplies of consumers goods, which will diminish stead-

ily as the first problem is successfully solved.
As conversion proceeds and as war production expands, scarcities of consumers goods in relation to the demand for them develop

from the following circumstances: (1) civilian production must necessarily be reduced or halted in those industries whose facilities
are susceptible of conversion; (2) even where facilities (and labor)
continue to be available, raw materials essential for the production
of civilian goods may become unavailable for this purpose; (3) the
curtailment of imports and the increase in lease-lend shipments reduce the supplies of consumers goods available for the domestic market; (4) the large increase in consumers incomes would create scarcities even if supplies of all consumers goods remain constant; (5)
the curtailment of expenditure on those goods of which the supply is
reduced or disappears enormously increases the demand for those that
remain abundant in absolute amounts.

There are two objectives to be realized by rationing.
First, the immediate purpose of controlling the sale of any given
commodity is to limit consumers purchases to the supply that will be
available, given the price set from time to time by the Price Admin-

istrator, i.e., it is to equate supply and demand in the particular
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39

88

market under consideration. Second, the broader purpose that can
be achieved by the widespread application of rationing is that of
limiting consumers expenditures on all those scarce commodities
which are important enough so that their prices are subject to control, and thus compelling consumers either to save larger proportions
of their income or to spend them in such a way that the distribution
of staple consumer goods will not be disturbed.

The Availability of Rationing to Reenforce Fiscal Policies.
To meet the well known price problem that is developing
from the growing unbalance between a diminishing goods supply and
an expanding purchasing power there is wide agreement upon the

desirability of adopting rigorous fiscal policies (taxation and

borrowing savings to drain away excesses of purchasing power) to

avoid a rise in prices that could otherwise only be controlled by
price-policing.
In the abstract the problem of coping with an impending
inflation is simple. The weapons consist of taxation, the borrowing power, and, perhaps, the power to compel saving. Yet, despite
the universal agreement upon the officacy of these devices for preventing inflation, recent evidence from the experience of other
countries reveals that the problem is never, in fact, solved in
this way. Rather, the weight of the evidence (especially from Britain and Germany) is in support of the view that the major and primary
responsibility for the avoidance of inflation falls upon those endow-

ed with the power of rationing. This they may not like, and it is
not intended to suggest that fiscal policy can not and should not

supplement the activities of the rationers but they must recognize
that they can and probably will perform this function. When the
power to control prices is granted, and when the difficulties in the
way of developing an adequate fiscal policy are so great, only effective broad use of the power to ration can create the conditions necessary for effective price control.

There is yet to be provided a convincing case of any country in war adopting fiscal policies in the degree necessary to maintain anything approaching substantial stability in prices. In contrast there is considerable evidence that reasonably satisfactory
fiscal measures can be adopted only if those empowered to ration have

first done their job well.

This statement rests upon the evidence that whatever stability of prices has been attained in Germany and Britain, for example, has been secured far more through effective use of the rationing weapon than by fiscal measures. In fact such fiscal measures
2-12020

probably could not have been as effective as they may have been ex-

cept for the prior exercise of rationing powers. Stated in another

way, dictatorships no less than democracies have found the imposition

of an adequate fiscal policy, initially, almost impossible unless
there was first created by rationing an excess of idle purchasing
power.

In Germany, with a government of great and effective cantralised control, only 50 percent of the war budget has been raised

by taxation. In Britain, the figure is but 27 percent. At the no-

ment we are about halfway between these extremes. Yet relative to
the price development in the United States, the price level in Britain and Germany has been reasonably well controlled under financial
conditions much more explosive than has been the case for the United
States. With their prior imposition of widespread rationing there
has been first created idle funds which subsequently have been tapped
by the government sales of bonds that have reasonably well mopped
up such surplus purchasing power.

Proponents of a frontal attack upon general inflation by
fiscal policy must recognise the extreme difficulty of first restricting purchasing power at a time when goods are still reasonably free
in supply and still free to move in price because neither rationing
nor price control has been widely used. But the use of the power to
ration can check the supplies of goods and the use of power to control

prices can further aid in reducing the stream of spending. In this
way is created & surplus of purchasing power for which inmediate and
customary use channels are not open. As a result the consumer far
more willingly acquiesces in the drive of government to secure these

funds; when his ordinary alternatives, even at rising prices, are
available to him he remains an unwilling subject or accomplice.
Thus either the controllers of prices and rations must
with historical evidence as to their responsibilities as well
as recognize the limitations a democracy, not quickly effective in
action, place upon them. It is indeed a responsibility well beyond

reckon

that of fairly distributing a few commodities that become unduly accen-

scarce in supply. This responsibility moreover is tellingly is
tuated by the fact that as the field of rationed commodities
widened the problem fast becomes intensified. This is so because
the imposition of a ration and a fixed price over a fair portion of
the field effectively brings a veritable deluge of purchasing power
upon any unrationed field of necessities. The latter say not to seem
scarce relative to the former but they become scarce relative
purchasing power.
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-

Types of Rationings Two General Extremes

The first type of rationing may conveniently be called
specific rationing and it is now well known as applied to sugar,
rubber tires, automobiles, and it will be well known probably for
almost all durable goods because durable goods production is fairly
soon expected to decline by no less than 80 percent. Specific rationing may operate well when the supplies to be doled out are extremely small. Since almost all are refused there can be only a
small amount of unfair discrimination. There seems always to be
enough differentiation within the classes of the consuming public
to allow small and important groups in the community the trickle of
available supplies. Consequently as supplies of durable goods dry
up the desirable procedure is reasonably clear where objective criterion exist.
At the other extreme there have been numerous proposals
outlining a second general type of rationing procedure - purchasing

power rationing. This form of rationing would limit (1) the total

sum of money each consumer could spend for (2) the purchase of any
and all scarce goods on a designated list. Although all goods tend
to become scarce relative to purchasing power under the conditions
of a war economy, only those which it is desired to supply in reasonably like amounts to all consuming units would-be placed upon

the restricted list. In this way, the pressure of demand would be
reduced to any desired extent in the markets for the scarcer and
more important goods. The uncontrolled field that would remain
would provide an area of "incentives" for the improvident and an
outlet for excess purchasing power in an area where limitation of
price and trading is either not worth the administrative energy re-

quired or excessive consumption would not sap away strength from the
war production effort.
The Limitations and Uses of the Two Types of Rationing.

Assuming that rationing should and will be extended to a
wider and wider group of commodities, as argued above, a well-rounded

rationing system could, theoretically, be built up through the employment of either of the two methods just described. But exclusive
reliance upon either would create grave problems, the nature of which
must be clearly grasped.

Specific rationing can work well when applied to commodities which are (a) so scarce that very few consumers need to be involved in the rationing scheme at all, or (b) so undifferentiated
(1.0., standarized) and desired or needed by consumers in such equal
amounts that consumption can be determined upon a straight per capita
2-12020

basis. But the more widely it is extended, even to necessities,
the more unsatisfactorily it operates. Consumers become all cluttered with the miltiplicity of coupon books and ration cards. The
very multiplicity of coupons, each available for only a specific
commodity, creates difficult administrative problems. But the really critical objection to the widespread use of specific rationing
is that it places A severe and unnecessary limitation upon consumers
freedom of choice.

This latter point cannot be quickly passed over. It is
fashionable these days to regard freedom of consumer choice as a

luxury that will have to be dispensed with for the duration of the
war. And, in one sense, this is true. No one denies the necessity
for reducing the number of varieties of goods and for limiting the
freedom of action of consumers in certain ways. Nevertheless, the

common failure to assess the importance of freedom of choice reveals
& really remarkable misunderstanding of the most elementary economic
considerations.
What is accomplished in peacetime through the operation
free markets for consumers goods is an allocation of goods
among individuals which gives effect to their tastes and needs.
At a time when the supply of consumers goods is greatly restricted

of

in relation to the demand for them, it is particularly important to
avoid the waste involved in an unsatisfactory allocation. Situa-

tions in which one family is granted a supply of sugar more than
adequate for its needs but is in very great need of more clothing
while another, because of differences in needs, habits, or tastes,
feels the shortage of sugar acutely and has a plentiful supply of
clothing are more serious when goods are scarce than when they are
abundant. Since consumers goods are going to be scarce, it is more
important than ever to. secure the best distribution of then among
individuals.
There is another side to freedom of consumer choice which

is at least as important. It is that which concerns the allocation
of expenditures through time. For normal and legitimate reasons, a
consumer's need for a commodity may vary widely from month to month

or season to season. No system of rationing is going to be tolerable that does not permit the consumer to forego consumption this
month in order to expand consumption next month.

The point can be illustrated by contrasting the nature of
the demand for sugar with that for gasoline. In the case of the
former, it is no hardship (though completely unnecessary) to require
the consumer to buy 12, 8, or any other designated number of ounces
each week with some one order of groceries.
2-12020

40

41
OF

But in the case of gasoline, although consumers may be

the statement of points in monetary terms is required to convert
this system to a purchasing power rationing system.) As the result
of limiting the number of points allotted to a consumer, equitable

most agreeable, because of the necessities of war, to limiting their
total annual purchases they will deem most highly the privilege of
arranging their consumption as they wish over the year. Some will
wish to economize greatly in terms of daily use to maximize summer
and vacation use. Others will develop a different pattern. And
those charged with rationing will find it difficult to convince the
public that a weekly dose of a given amount is the only way in which
the necessary reduction in total consumption can be achieved. In
fact they would probably prefer an even smaller annual total if flexibility can be arranged.

distribution of the limited supplies is achieved without strait-

jacketing the costume of the individual consumer. Again in the case
of meat no one would seriously propose the imposition upon consumers

of either the compact ration of the soldier when in the field or of
the precise cuts and qualities he may have. A ration of meat would
limit only the total pounds that might be purchased or as in Britain
the weekly financial outlay.

The case against specific rationing outlined above, however
convincing, does not prove that, to go to the opposite extreme, purchasing power rationing would by itself be adequate to prevent infla-

Any system of rationing which strictly limits consumers
freedom of choice (a) as among commodities and (b) as to the distribution of expenditure through time, has the further grave disadvantage of maximising the consumers incentive to cheat. If the

tion. Its major limitation is apparent. The scarcity of different
goods in relation to the demand for them at official prices varies

family that is especially fond of fish can enlarge its supply by

widely, depending upon (a) what happens to supply and (b) the income

economising on meat, or the family that requires more food can get
it by economizing on clothing, if the automobile owner can provide
himself with gasoline during a summer vacation by economizing through
the rest of the year, each is saved from the most acute hardships
that widespread specific rationing would impose. If each buyer is
permitted, in other words, to economize in the manner easiest for
him, the process of economising will be less painful.

elasticity of the goods in question. If a purchasing power rationing system were enforced and if the restricted list of commodities

included, at one extreme, durable consumers goods such as automobiles

of which the supply will be negligible and, at the other, foods which
will be relatively abundant, it would simply fail to achieve its

n)

The matter may be stated positively with even more emphaThe temptation to cheat is strongest when the consumer runs
out of some particular commodity he needs at some particular time.
sis.

If he is able to draw on past or future supplies (to a modest extent)

by using up coupons or to get more of the particular scarce commodity by cutting down on others, such emergencies can be handled. But
the automobile driver who runs out of his weekly ration of gasoline
20 miles from home, and the housewife whose weekly ration of milk

most immediate purpose. Consumers would be free to concentrate their
purchases on the two or three scarcest items. The demand and supply
for such necessities as sugar would not be equated, except by the
rising prices or by the disappearance of the goods from merchants
shelves. The total volume of consumer expenditure might be very adequately limited but the available supplies of really scarce commodities

would not be equitably distributed. Clearly, then, while freedom of
consumers choice is desirable, it must be limited in certain directions in order to have any effective rationing under war conditions.

gives out when her child is sick, will flout the rules if possible.

Principles of Rationing

Because freedom of choice among commodities and through time makes

possible a more efficient consumption of goods, it makes the policing problem less acute.
On these grounds widespread specific rationing must be

regarded as a highly unsatisfactory solution; its limitations have
been widely recognized by rationers elsewhere. It is not uncommon
to arrange groups of commodities for which total consumption limits
are fixed but within which the consumer may adopt different patterns
of consumption. A case in point is British and German rationing
of clothing according to a "point" system which permits & concentration of purchase of some items because experience shows that other
consumers will concentrate their purchase upon other items. (Only
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The considerations discussed above in connection with the
two extreme forms of rationing suggest two ways in which consumers
purchases might be limited with the minimum interference with free-

dom of choice. The first is through an extention of specific rationing but in terms of broad commodity groups rather than of specified
articles of consumption. By classifying all commodities of which
the sale is to be restricted into 3, 4, or 5 such groups on the basis

of their probable scarcity in relation to demand at official prices,
the major objective of specific rationing would be attained and CODsiderable freedom of choice would still exist.
2-12020

-

42

If experience proved that, in spite of the penalty thus
imposed upon purchasers of the scarcest goods, the demand for them
was greater than the supply at prevailing money prices, it would
always be possible without the reissue of coupon books or any other
administratively complicated change in the rationing system to raise

durables that use metal or machinery, for instance,

All that employ certain nonavailable imported m
together with goods constitute the class of scareest goods. These might

terials would be handled by the local rationing boards already set
appropriately tea, coffee, cocoa, woolen goods, and certain other

their "prices" in terms of points. In effect, then, the rationing

authority would issue to each consumer a limited supply of "purchasing power" available for the buying of restricted commodities. Within that class of commodities, however, something analogous to a price
system will operate as the rationing device.

up. Sugar, will readily suggest themselves form a class where
articles that of scarcity is likely to be extreme but where at least
the pressure ration would be made available to all consumers. Gasoline,

a small articles of clothing that use a small amount of wool,

many foods, and similar goods are going to be reasonably abundant

Perhaps it should be pointed out, though this should hardly

perhaps soap, still be necessary to limit purchases, especially would as rationing but it may in other fields begins to make itself felt. These

be necessary, that the ill-effects of inflation really would be
avoided by this procedure even though scarce commodities would become

fall into & third class.

In order to secure the advantage of some freedom of choice,
issued to a consumer for an article in any one class

the coupons to all the articles in that class. In other words,
should should apply be only one issue of coupons for each class of commod-

there Presumably, a weight or "price" in terms of points would be
ities. to each commodity within a class. These weights, themselves,
assigned could be adjusted to reflect the relative scarcity of the various

articles. With such a system in force, the consumer would be free
to increase his consumption of any restricted commodity if, but only
he were willing and able to reduce his consumption of other commodities if, within the same class (except in the case of those articles
in Class 1, i.e., automobiles, tires, and other scarce consumers
durables).

But even the method of rationing here outlined could be
further simplified and at the same time a still greater degree of
freedom of choice could be introduced into the rationing system.
Instead of setting up a series of classes, all restricted commodities (except those suggested above for Class 1) could be put in a
single class and excessive purchases (in relation to available supplies) of the scarcer could be prevented by placing upon them would & very

high "price" in points. If this procedure were adopted, it

be necessary to issue only a single series of coupons which would
be good in varying amounts for all those restricted cotmodities of
which the supply is to be spread, on some basis or other, among all 1.)
consumers. (Other scarce commodities would be included in Class
Without disobeying the specific regulations embodied in the rationing system, every individual consumer would have the right to pur- if

chase very large amount of, say, sugar or woolen goods. But,

these a commodities are especially scarce as compared with other There- con-

nondurables, they would carry a high price in points.

sumer the consumer who purchased large supplies would be compelled cof-

to fore, make extremely drastic cuts in his consumption of, say,tea,
fee, meats, dairy products, shoes, and gasoline.
2-12020

,

very "expensive" in terms of points. The major reasons for not leaving the money prices of goods uncontrolled in an inflationary period
is that (a) available goods would be bid away by those with more
money to spend so that a highly inequitable distribution of real income would result and (b) the cost price structure would be permanently
dislocated so that grave injustice would be done to those persons
whose money incomes did not keep pace with prices. The first of these
consequences does not ensue when "prices" in terms of points of scarce
goods rise relative to other "prices" because the distribution of
coupons can be made in such a way as to equalize the sacrifice inposed on consumers or distributed among them on any other basis
that may be selected. The second difficulty does not arise because
the structure of money prices and money costs is not affected and,
therefore, cannot suffer from permanent distortion.
As a method of avoiding general inflation and equating
supply and demand in specific markets the device here proposed has

the virtue of administrative convenience as well as that of preserving a high degree of freedom in consumer choice. As already

indicated, miscalculations can be corrected and adjustments made for
changes in supply or in demand by simply publishing a new schedule

of the weight or "price" in points to be attached to each article of
consumption. Also, means can be devised whereby the total ration in
points granted to each consumer can be expanded or reduced without the
issue of new coupon books. One way of achieving this would be to lower
the weights in points of many commodities. Another (and simpler) would
be to include in each ration book when issued more coupons than would
be required to make up the total ration for the time period in question,
and to identify the coupons either by serial numbers or by differentiation
of color. It would then be possible to change the number of points in
the total rations of the period morely by validating more coupons in
each book or invalidating some of those originally good. A third
advantage which will be increasingly important as the scope of widening
2-12020

43
11

10Insofar as larger expenditure means larger physical quantities of standardised necessities such as sugar and coffee, or larger
drafts upon the available supply of wool, the answer should almost
certainly be in the negative. But insofar as larger expenditures
mean the purchase of clothing that embodies finer workmanship or
food that is more expensively packaged, that is delivered free, or
that is bought in a high-priced store specializing in service, the
answer should unquestionably be in the affirmative. Again, the
experience of Britain and Germany lend support to the conclusion.
What is limited there is the number of suits an individual is permitted to buy and, by implication, the amount of wool he is allowed
to use but net the sum that he may spend.

expands is that new commodities can be added to the restricted list
or previously scarce commodities can be dropped from it with an absolute minimum of administrative difficulty. Presumably, the total
ration in points would be enlarged as commodities were added or reduced than if they were dropped from the list.
The Size of the Total Ration

Under the procedure here outlined, the distribution of
rations to consumers would, as rationing became widespread, largely

determine the distribution of available real income. Something
must be said, therefore, about the basis on which the distribution
should be carried out. It may be suggested that it should be de-

This example suggests another reason for issuing an over-

all ration in terms of points rather than in terms of dollars. The
"prices" in terms of points that are set upon various articles should
not reflect their cost nor should they parallel the money prices
that would rule in the absence of any controls. Instead, the "prices"
in points should reflect simply the amount and scarcity of the restricted goods and services that go into their production. An eightydollar suit, for instance, should cost little if any more in points
than a fifteen-dollar suit. A well-tailored suit without a waistcoat should cost less in points than one worth only a fifth as much

signed to achieve three objectives:

(a) The distribution of necessities should be on a
basis of equality.
(b) The consequences of the existing distribution
of money income should be modified as little
as possible so far as the apportionment of non-

in money but so designed as to use more wool. If weights or "prices"
in points were set on this basis, (as they would appear to be wherever
the point system is used abroad) the interference of the rationing
system with the habitual consumption patterns of different income

necessities is concerned.

(c) Due account should be taken of the special needs
that arise out of special circumstances.

groups would be minimised.

The second of these is, doubtless, somewhat controversial.
But an indication of the way in which it might be achieved may both
make its meaning clearer and make the principle itself more acceptable. The consumption of the higher income groups under normal conditions greatly exceeds that of the low income groups because it
includes (a) many luxuries and types of expenditure which do not
appear in low income budgets at all and (b) far larger payments for
those goods that do appear in low income budgets. Extra consumption

Once this is clearly understood, the distribution of equal
numbers of points to all consumers becomes both more acceptable and

more logical than would be the distribution of, say, equal purchasing power rations in dollar terms. The problems raised by the habitual differences between the larger consumption expenditures of the
higher income brackets and the smaller consumption expenditures of
the lower income brackets need not arise. The normal rule then

should be equal rations in points. This would take care of both
the first and the second objectives.

of the former type is not likely to be affected directly by rationing. Luxuries will probably not be rationed; they will simply be

hard to obtain and, eventually, nonexisting. The fundamental decisions that affect their supply will be made in the course of the
allocation of productive resources.

The third, again, requires a little thought. Certain of

the adjustments that should be made to reflect differences in need
occur readily to any administrator. Families where there are small
children might need less than a full ration per capita. Expectant
mothers might need more. Men doing heavy physical labor might deserve a small percentage increase in their ration which would be
sufficient to allow for a higher consumption of food.

A serious problem does arise, however, out of "extra"
spending of the second type. The rationing authority does have to
determine whether the higher income groups should be permitted to
spend more money for clothes, food, and other necessities than the

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lower income groups.

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in

13
12

10)

Certain other special needs are, however, less obvious.
Operators of automobiles, if they are to be permitted to operate,
would need enough points included in their ration to cover at least
modest purchases of gasoline. If furnace oil or the services of

add

Specific Provisions

By way of summary, the type of rationing system proposed

in this memorandum is here defined in terms of a list of specific
provisions.

utilities were to be rationed, the size of the total family ration

would have to depend upon the appliances already installed and,
presumably, upon the size of the house. These special modifications cannot be worked out in detail in a general memorandum. However, their general character and their great importance should be

(1) At intervals of six months or a year general rations

consisting of a designated number of points should be
issued to all consumers. The rations should be equal
except insofar as they are modified on the basis of
the special needs of the individual or family in question. These might arise from health, age, occupation,
characteristics and equipment of dwelling, possession
of an automobile, etc.

understood.

Administrative Features

One or two specific suggestions as to the method of administration may indicate further advantages of the proposal here advanced. First, a method of enforcement readily suggests itself.

(2) The ration should be issued in the form of ration
books, a draft or check representing the whole
number of points, or partly in the form of drafts
and partly in the form of separate coupons. Provision should be made for invalidating a part of
the coupons or draft issued or for validating further coupons and enlarging the draft by the publication of a notice without the necessity for the
issue of a new or supplementary ration.

When making purchases of restricted commodities, consumers would be
supposed to turn over the appropriate number of coupons to the re-

tailer from whom the purchase was made. The retailer, in turn,
should be required to present coupons for the appropriate number of
points (or the equivalent thereof, see below) in making purchases
from wholesalers. Wholesalers should, of course, do the same when
buying from manufacturers. The latter, in turn, should be required
to pay in points as well as in money for scarce materials made

(3) Points should be freely transferable either through

available to them.

the surrender of coupons or through the mechanism
of checking accounts.

If it were literally necessary to go through this procewith the actual coupons originally submitted by consumers, it
would be cumbersome indeed. But an obvious alternative exists and
has already been adopted by the British. There is no reason why
coupons should not be turned into the banks and bank accounts in
terms of points handled in exectly the same way as bank accounts in
terms of money. Transfer could then be by check in convenient dedure

(4) All commodities sufficiently scarce to require rationing, with certain exceptions noted below, should be on
a published list of restricted commodities. Each should

have a "price" in terms of points set on it by the rationing authority. Such "prices" should reflect simply
the scarcity of the good in relation to the potential

nominations.

money demand for it at existing money prices. "Prices"
or weights in terms of points should be changed as infrequently as possible and, so far as possible, the change
should never be announced in advance of the date when
it becomes effective.

This would be virtually essential to expedite transactions
between retailers, wholesalers, manufacturers, if the method of enforcement here suggested were adopted. But there is, of course, no
reason whatever why the same privilege of depositing coupons in the
banks should not be extended to consumers. Indeed, if the system
of rationing were really widely extended so that a large proportion
of consumers expenditures were affected, rations could be issued in
the form of "checks" as well as in the form of actual ration books.
Since points would constitute a type of money, there is no conceivable reason for not using the highly developed machinery of the banking system to make transactions in points as convenient as transac-

(5) Enforcement of rationing provisions should be carried
on, so far as possible, at the point where scarce raw
materials are issued to manufacturers or scarce manu-

factured goods are sold to wholesalers, retailers, or
consumers. It should take the form of a requirement
that the manufacturer turn over credits in points for all
scarce materials made available to him or for all scarce

tions in money.

2-12020

best

Level

2-12020
"

44

15

- 14

on

output sold by him. If this were done, the need for
further enforcement at the wholesale or retail level

Conclusion

would be minimized, for no merchant could sell scarce

The system of rationing here outlined would have the fol-

lowing a

goods for less than their proper "price" in points
without permanently depleting his inventory. Enforcement at the wholesale retail level would be necesarry,
however, to control inventories.

(1) It would insure equality between supply and demand at
official money prices in the absence of miscalculation.

(c)

These, when made, could be corrected more easily and

All scarce goods which it is desirable to distribute
exclusively on a basis of need and those too scarce to

(6)

more rapidly than under any other system of rationing.

be shared equally by the whole population should be

(2) As it became widely extended, it would limit the aggregate expenditure of all consumers for all scarce goods
and would thus create the conditions in which fiscal

omitted from the restricted list and handled by specific rationing. Obviously, this includes most dur-

able consumers goods, certain medical supplies, certain
services such as, perhaps, medical services, and railroad transportation. However, the whole purpose of
the rationing device here proposed will be defeated if

devices could be used to absorb excess purchasing power.

(3) It would permit a very high degree of freedom of consumer choice, which is another way of saying that it
would permit the most effective use of resources that
are abnormally scarce.

specific rationing is extended further than is absolutely necessary.

1

(7) The commodities that should probably be placed on the

(4) It would operate in such a way as to insure that every
family would be able to purchase its share of scarce

restricted list in the very near future are sugar,

gasoline, tea, COCOA, woolen goods of all types, elec-

goods but it would upset the consumption patterns of
different income groups to a minimum extent.

trical appliances and electricity in certain areas.

Other commodities should be added as scarcities threaten. The total ration should be altered when new com-

(5) It would have the supreme advantage of administrative
convenience for both the administrative agency and the
nation's consumers. Commodities could be added to or
removed from the restricted list, changes in supply
could be allowed for and other contingencies could be
met without the issue of new rations.

modities are put on the list so as to minimize the
necessity for changing the prices in points already
established for scarce articles. (It is assumed that
goods now subject to rationing, such as automobiles
and tires, would continue to be handled by specific
rationing.)
(8)

(6) The incentive for violation would also be minimized,
and with it the policing problem. The freedom of

The rationing of housing space is probably unnecessary

except in certain localities. Where its use does have
to be restricted, the number of points charged for the

choice allowed to consumers would enable them to
meet contingencies and to secure those scarce goods
they most desired by economizing on others. The polic-

use of a dwelling should be based on the number of bed-

rooms it contains in relation to the size of the family

ing of retailers and wholesalers could be largely

and on no other feature. This would penalize consumers
who occupy premises designed for larger families and
would automatically favor those already living in overcrowded conditions. But it would not interfere with
those qualitative differences between houses and neighborhoods which reflect the present distribution of money

avoided by concentrating supervision at the manufac-

turing level.
2-12020

income.

2. 12020

the

"

45

46

ap

16

Evaluation

D. Probably the solidest objection of all will come from
the potential administrator who will recognize that
the proposed rationing system would

Against the proposal certain objections will be urged:

(1) call for rather careful calculation before a

A. The most reasonable is the contention that freedom of
choice for consumers is not desirable at this time.
This implies that the rationing authority should
decide what people need to keep them at full efficiency
and should then see that they get it whether they want

"price" in points was established and

(2) involve the risk that a sudden run on one or
more restricted commodities would occur too

quickly to be halted by a sharp rise in its
cost in points. That this risk would exist
cannot be denied. And it must be admitted

it or not. As applied to essential foods, this con-

tention may have some merit. But the practical disadvantages of interfering with freedom of consumer choice
are so great and unnecessary regimentation so undesir-

that it would grow as more commodities were

added to the restricted list and the total

able that it will not be accepted (except by those

rations were enlarged. Even at the outset,
there might be a run on tea or coffee and a
decline in purchases of, say, sugar and coffee.
The risk of such things happening would be
greatly increased if "prices" in points were
believed by consumers to be unstable and to be

whose basic values deny the major premise underlying
the case for freedom of choice even in normal times).

B. A plausible but less reasonable objection is that this
system of rationing will be too complicated to explain
to consumers. This is a point that cannot be settled
in writing. But it is hard to see why a system
involving coupons or points of only one type should be
more complicated than one involving a multiplicity of

liable to increases. But, after all, a run on
sugar that began in December 1941 necessitated

the imposition of rationing which could not be
accomplished until March 1942. A way has been
found, somehow, to halt the run, or meet it,
until permanent measures could be taken. With
the rationing system here described already
set up, prices in points could be altered
within two or three days of the appearance of
extraordinary demand. Moderately competent
administration could meet this objection OODclusively.

coupon books or why a system of prices expressed in
points that has worked well within commodity groups
should not work when extended to cover all scarce goods.

C. An objection, closely related to the second referred to
above, will be made by all those who argue that rationing means telling people how much they can have and

that there is something inherently strange and wrong
about a device which restricts consumers freedom of

action so little. The same people will argue that this
proposal implies setting up another price system to
control the allocation of goods and that it must,
therefore, be unjust because an uncontrolled money
price system would be unjust. They are correct, of
course, that what is here suggested is a type of price
system but, for reasons explained above, it would not
operate to the disadvantage of any persons except those
whose need or desire for all scarce goods was
especially great. And they are going to suffer whatever system is devised.
2-12020

The rationing system which has been proposed, therefore,
would yield a comprehensive and workable solution for the impending problem of scarcities.

2.12020

47

April 7. 1942.

Dear Mr. Melsons

I thought you night be interested in

having a copy of my confidential letter to
the President of April 3. 1942, together
with accompanying memorandum and chart, on

the cost of living and what ought to be done
about it.
Sincerely,
(Signed) R. Morgenthan, IN

Honorable Donald H. Welson,
Chairman,

Var Production Board,
Washington, D. C.

Inclosure.

n.m.c.
copiests Dr.Have
By Messenger 10:40 Veach

GCHsek

FILE COPY

48
April 7, 1942

su sunderick
sent remain 14/15/42

Dear Jim:

see me Chelps

I read your letter of April 5

ltn of 4/18

with great interest.
I should be glad to discuss

this with you further at any time.
Yours sincerely,
(Signed) Henry

Hon. James V. Forrestal,

Under Secretary of the Navy.

Permal

By Messenger reach 3:45

49
THE UNDER SECRETARY OF THE NAVY
WASHINGTON

5 April 1942

Dear Henry:

This is not an official communication and I am going
outside my province in writing it, but I have been so
much impressed by the facts that I can't keep myself
from stepping out of bounds.

The British some weeks ago set a goal of 525,000,000

pounds sterling for voluntary contribution to what was
designated "British Isles War Ship Week." So far, without a full report, 515,000,000 sterling has been contributed. It seems to me that in closing the so-called

inflationary gap there are possibilities for us in this
example -- not only war ships but planes, tanks, etc.

A number of people are skeptical as to what we could

get on a voluntary basis in this country, but I am

enough of an optimist and a salesman to believe that

it might be considerable. I don't want to go off the

deep end in promoting this idea any further without a

word from you.

I hope you will forgive this amateur presumption.
Sincerely,

tountal
James Forrestal
The Honorable

The Secretary of the Treasury

V

50

April 7, 1942
2:55 p.m.

HMJr:

Morgenthau.

Sir

Frederick

Phillips:

Yes, sir.

HMJr:

How are you?

P:

HMJr:

Oh, I'm all right, thank you.
Two things - I seem to be making a little bit
of headway now in getting you some money.
Good. Yeah.

P:

HMJr:

Ione
both
got a letter from Mr. Stimson, and today
from Mr. Jones.
Yes.

P:

HMJr:

And by going after Mr. Hopkins - he's now given
it to - oh, whatever the man's name is over at
Lend-Lease - McCabe.

P:

McCabe, yes.

HMJr:

On the question of picking up outstanding con-

P:

Yes.

HMJr:

tracts.

So McCabe said that he was going to concentrate

on it this week.

P:

Uh huh.

HMJr:

So

P:

I'll be seeing him tomorrow.

HMJr:
P:

HMJr:
P:

Well, I thought you'd like to know this.
Yes. I did call on Mr. Jones
Did you?

and he expressed his interest in the subject.

51

-2HMJr:

Yeah. Well, the thing - 80 that you could
help on your end, White's looking after it

for me, but Hopkins has turned his end over
to McCabe.

P:

HMJr:

P:

I see.

And
all weI just
can.wanted to let you know we're doing

I got - as a matter of fact - I got a letter

in just this moment from McCabe
HMJr:
P:

Yeah.

which is about one of our Lend-Lease appli-

cations, and it runs, "It seems to us that in
order to grant your request, we would be required
to relax our rules of eligibility. Furthermore,
we do not feel justified in taking this step
without having determined in conjunction with
the Treasury that the British dollar position

is such that a major change of policy is necessary." #

HMJr:
P:

HMJr:

Yeah.

It's obvious he's been thinking along some of
those lines.

Yeah. Let me ask you this - I just had a note
from Mr. Forrestal about the British Isle War
Ship Week.

P:

British Isle War Ship Week.

HMJr:

Yes.

P:

Yes.

HMJr:

Now, he said they were trying to get five hundred
and twenty-five million pounds sterling, and it
says "voluntary contribution". Does that mean in
the way of a loan or a gift, do you know?

P:

Oh, well, I haven't heard the details of that
thing, but - it gives it like what they used to

52

-3call the "Weapons Week". They try and get all

they could voluntarily, I should think; but also
they'd count into their total anything they got
subscribed in the particular town or district
in War Bonds and 80 on.

HMJr:
P:

HMJr:

P:

HMJr:

Well, would

The general idea is to - with that kind of thing is to put, say Liverpool in competition with
Manchester and make them try and race each other
for a total.
Would you mind sending a cable to your Chief
and saying that I'm interested?
Yes.

Would he send over just enough details so that
you could. tell me about it?

P:

That's right. I'11 do that today.

HMJr:

Will you?

P:

Yes.

HMJr:

That I'm interested and I'd like to know.

P:

Yes.

HMJr:

If he'd cable back just a description of what

P:

Right. That shall be done.

HMJr:

Might learn something.

P:

Yes.

HMJr:

Thank you.

P:

Thank you very much.

it is.

53

April 7, 1942

At three o'clock a group met in the office of the Secretary of the Treasury. In addition to Secretary Morgenthau,
those present were: Mr. D. W. Bell, Under Secretary of the
Treasury, Mr. E. H. Foley, Jr., General Counsel of the
Treasury; Mr. Preston Delano, Comptroller of the Currency;
Mr. Robert B. McCandless, Deputy Comptroller of the Currency;

Mr. Norman Tietjens, Assistant General Counsel of the Treasury;
and Mr. C. B. Upham, Deputy Comptroller of the Currency.

Mr. Bell informed the Secretary that the matter up for
consideration had to do with a proposal for the purchase, by
e corporation to be organized in Detroit, of the remaining

assets of the First National Bank-Detroit, insolvent. Mr. Bell
said that Mr. Delano would tell the story and give the background of the receivership during the nine years that it has
been under liquidation by the Office of the Comptroller of the
Currency.

Mr. Delano then placed before the Secretary a memorandum,

copy of which is attached, giving the salient points of the
proposed action. After he had read that, the Secretary asked
Mr. Delano and Mr. Foley and Mr. Bell if they favored

54

-2the acceptance of the offer of the Detroit group and each
one of them said that he did.
Mr. Bell said one feature had caused some doubt in his

mind--namely, the fact that the purchasers expect to borrow
the necessary money ($25 million) from the RFC. Mr. Bell

felt this left the Federal Government in the picture and it
might look as if it were one Government agency turning the
assets over to another Government agency. Moreover, he had
some doubts about the use of Government funds for that pur-

pose under the existing circumstances. He explained that
when he made that point to Senator Brown, the Senator reported

back to him that the Detroit purchasers feel that they can
pay the RFC off in approximately two years, refinancing the
debt locally in Detroit.
Mr. Morgenthau asked who the group in Detroit was and
r. Delano gave him the names of the members of the Committee

and pertinent facts about their positions and connections and

standing in Detroit. He explained particularly that the
Committee had been sponsored by Senator Brown and that the

mayor of Detroit had appointed a representative of the public
interest on the Committee.

55

-3Mr. Foley said that it seemed like a good deal to him,
the only question being price, which he understood was satis-

factory to the Comptroller. This the Comptroller confirmed.
He told the Secretary that we had already paid the depositors

in this half billion dollar receivership all of the principal
of their deposits and that we would be enabled to pay them

approximately 8 per cent dividend out of the 12 per cent plus
that has been earned. He explained that a safeguard has been
set up under which any depositor who so desired could partici-

pate with the corporation in future liquidation rather than
retaining the 8 per cent which will be made available to him.
r. Morgenthau expressed himself as being of the opinion that

this was particularly important and stipulated that the utmost
care should be used to see that this participation feature
was carefully followed out.

Mr. Bell pointed out that the offer of $41 million is
approximately 80 per cent of the appraised value of the assets,
and Mr. Delano explained that the bulk of the remaining assets
is around 2,000 pieces of real estate and several thousand
land contracts.

56

-4Mr. Morgenthau asked why the group in Detroit wanted

to purchase the assets. To this Mr. Delano replied that
they seem to have three mein purposes: (1) To regain
possession and administration of the assets in e local
Detroit group, as was done in the case of the Guardian
Bank (thus removing something of a stigma, as they felt,

in having a Federal receivership in their city); and
(2) because of their feeling that the more leisurely
liquidation of the real estate assets which they contemplate would have less of an adverse effect on real estate
values generally than would the more pressing liquidation
which we must necessarily pursue; and (3) because they

felt they might also by a longer period of liquidation get
more out of the assets for eventual return to shareholders

then could be realized by us. Mr. Bell supplemented this
by observing that in his opinion it is desirable from our
point of view also that the Government wind up this type

of activity and get out of the liquidation business as
rapidly as possible.
Mr. Morgenthau initialed the memorandum which had been

presented to him and asked that he be given a photostatic

copy for his files.

lepon

pls file desti
of Hyper

approval
4/7

58
March 18, 1942

MEMORANDUM TO: Secretary Morgenthau

FROM: Comptroller of the Currency Delano

The Comptroller of the Currency has received an

offer of $41,100,000 for all of the remaining assets

of the First National Bank-Detroit, insolvent.
The offer is made by a Committee of depositors

and shareholders representing important interests in

Detroit who propose to form a liquidating corporation in
the hope that some eventual return may be made to stock-

holders who have paid assessments. I consider this offer
as equivalent to the present cash value of the assets
and, subject to your approval, I propose to accent the
offer and terminate the receivership as soon as possible.

The sale will, by law, be subject to court approval.

This is our largest receivership. Since the bank's
closing in 1933, the receiver has liquidated 90 percent of
the assets and has returned to depositors the full amount
of their deposits amounting to 335,000,000.
The ten percent remaining assets are the least

59

-2desirable and least liquid of all the assets of the
trust. These assets have been appraised at
$51,546,287 but this estimate contemplates liquida-

tion extending over a period of five or more years.
The present emergency renders all such estimates of

value problematical, and the sale of the remaining

assets at a substantial discount from appraisal is
certainly preferable to the extended continuation
of a receivership already over nine years old.
The proposed sale will enable us to pay

denositors an additional dividend, by way of interest,
of between seven percent and eight percent, which

will be more than half of the entire interest accrued
on depositors' claims.
The Committee has stated that it will permit

any depositor who so desires, to participate in its

liquidation, if he thinks it is to his advantage to
do so, rather than retain the seven percent or eight
percent cash dividend that he will receive from us.
Some depositors may wish to retain an interest in the

60

-3-

assets until they have been finally liquidated.
In my judgment, the price offered is in the
interest of the depositors, and I recommend that
the sale should be made.

OK Throughom

61

April 7, 1942
4:00 p.m.

HMJr:

Hello.

HMJr:

Mr. Landis is out of his office attending a
meeting. He'll be back at four-thirty, or
they could reach him if it's urgent.
I would call it urgent.

Operator:

Right.

Operator:

I would call it urgent.
Operator: All right.
HMJr:

4:05 p.m.
HMJr:

Hello.

Operator:

James Landis.

HMJr:

Hello. Hello.

James

Landis:

Hello.

HMJr:

Henry talking.

L:

Yeah.

HMJr:

I wouldn't bother you but it will just take
a second. Mr. Daniels is here, and I was
telling him that at nine-fifteen tomorrow

morning we're having a meeting on the subject

which you tried to find out something about
at Cabinet the other day.

L:

Yeah.

HMJr:

And Harold Smith is going to be here, and
Leon Henderson and that whole group, to talk
about rationing and forced savings and 80

forth and so on. And I thought that if you
didn't have anything better to do, you'd find

it interesting.

62

-2L:

Yes, I would.

HMJr:

At nine-fifteen.

L:

All right.

HMJr:

Because I haven't got a friend in town - they
all want me to give up volunteer and go to
forced savings.

L:

Uh huh.

L:

So it affects you, I think, about as much as
it'11 affect me.
Yeah, I think it does.

HMJr:

What?

L:

I think it does.

HMJr:

So come on in; the water's fine.

L:

All right. I'll be there.

HMJr:

Nine-fifteen.

L:

Nine-fifteen.

HMJr:

Okay.

L:

Right. Thanks.

HMJr:

63

MEMORANDUM

To:

Secretary Morgenthau

From: Mr. Paul

April 7. 1942

I talked with Leon Henderson this afternoon and he

said he would be glad to lead off at tomorrow's meeting

if you will turn to him at the beginning of the meeting
and give him some opening, such as, "I haven't seen you
for some time, Leon, what are your ideas on this whole
subject?"

RST

64
BOARD OF GOVERNORS
OF THE

FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM
WASHINGTON

OFFICE OF THE CHAIRMAN

and

April 7, 1942.

Dear Henry:

Thank you for your note of
April 6 commenting on the assistance
which Governor Szymczak rendered in

connection with the evacuation problem

on the West Coast. He will be very
gratified, as I am, by your commendation.

Sincerely yours,

Marmer
Honorable Henry Morgenthau, Jr.,

Secretary of the Treasury,
Washington, D. C.

Delivered and accepted

4-7-42

New York, April
3. 1942. 10m2 65
fyme, by allan
throul

Allan Sproul, Seq., President,
Federal Reserve Bank of New York,
New York, N. Y.

To give expression to their views voiced at the meetings
which you initiated, the principal member banks of New York City wish
to advise you - and request that you, in turn, inform the Secretary of
the Treasury - of their desire to assist where they can be helpful in
meeting the immediate problems of government financing.

The banks appreciate the grave responsibility and burden
which has been placed upon the Treasury, and are particularly anxious
to cooperate with the Treasury and the Federal Reserve System in order
to help make the financing program operate smoothly and successfully.
1. Under the leadership and advice of the Federal Reserve Bank
of New York, the member banks of New York City can and will so conduct

their operations as to make all of the funds at their disposal most
effective in furthering the Treasury's financing program.
2. Through their organisations, the banks have excellent

facilities for the distribution of government securities, not only to
bank investors, but to non-bank investors as well. They are glad to
place these facilities at the disposal of the Treasury, and to offer

their cooperation in an active and aggressive campaign of distribution
of government securities under its direction.

3. As a group which may be used as active agents for the
distribution of securities to others, and as purchasers of government
securities for themselves, the personnel and experience of the New York
City banks are at the disposal of the Treasury for consultation in
considering financing programs or the particular types of securities
which might most effectively be used in forwarding such programs.

WILLIAM C. POTTER

Chairman of the General Committee
of the New York Money Market.

66

Bank of the Manhattan Company

J. Stewart Baker,

Chairman

Bank of New York

J. C. Traphagen,

President

Bankers Trust Company

B. A. Tompkins,

Vice Pres.

Central Hanover Bank and Trust Company

Henry P. Turnbull

Vice Pres.

Chase National Bank

Winthrop W. Aldrich,

Chairman

Chemical Bank and Trust Company

N. Baxter Jackson,

Vice Pres.

Commercial National Bank and Trust Company

Herbert P. Howell,

Chairman

Corn Exchange Bank Trust Company

Ralph Peters, Jr.,

President

First National Bank

Leon Fraser,

President

Guaranty Trust Company of New York

W. C. Potter,
W. P. Conway,

Ch.,Ex. Com.
Ch., Board

Irving Trust Company

Harry E. Ward,

Chairman

J. P. Morgan and Company, Inc.

George Whitney,

President

Marine Midland Trust Company

James G. Blaine,

President

Manufacturers Trust Company

Harvey D. Gibson,

President

National City Bank of New York

G. S. Rentschler,

Chairman

W. R. Burgess,

Vice Ch.

New York Trust Company

John E. Bierwirth,

President

Public National Bank and Trust Company

E. Chester Gersten,

President

67

two Klaty Please note.
10m.z.
MEMORANDUM

To:

Secretary Morgenthau

From: Mr. Paul

April 7, 1942

The following paragraph is quoted from a
memorandum sent to me by Mr. Clevenger today:

"After deliberation Roswell Magill
has turned down the radio talk. He came
to the conclusion that inasmuch as he
could not agree with several of the more
important points of the Treasury's Program
his speech would have some embarrassing

omissions. In a telephone conversation,

he said-(1) that he did not have any
talent for interpreting tax matters to the
general public, and (2) that he has followed
the policy of staying out of public discussions since he left the Treasury, and
had refused on several occasions to appear
before the House Ways and Means Committee.

h2p

68
THE SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY
WASHINGTON

APR 7-1942

My dear Mr. President:

It has been proposed that the existing
shortage in copper may be alleviated to some extent

by substituting silver for copper in certain processes
in connection with war production. The Department
of the Treasury would make available to war plants,
both Government and privately owned, certain "free

silver" from the available silver stocks of the
Government. The silver would not become a part of

the products of the plants, nor would it be used up.
It would rather be used as plant equipment in such

a way as to permit substantially all of it to be
returned to the Government at or about the termin-

ation of the war, or before if the Government should
80 demand. The silver would not be sold, and safeguards would be adopted to insure the return thereof
to the Government and to indemnify the United States

against loss of the silver from wear and tear or
POPDEFENSE from other reason. "Free silver" is uncoined silver
BUY

69

-2owned by the Government, but which is not held for

redemption of any outstanding silver certificates.

The supply of "free silver" is large enough to release large quantities of copper for other war

needs, if the proposal is carried out.
It is the view of this Department that you
have plenary power under the Joint Resolutions of
December 8 and December 11, 1941, 55 Stat. 795, 796,

797, in which a state of war was declared between
the United States and Japan, Germany, and Italy, to

authorize action to be taken in accordance with the
above outlined proposal. Furthermore, the Department

is in receipt of an opinion of the Attorney General
of the United States to the effect that the Secretary
of the Treasury has authority to carry out the proposal without approval or authorisation from you.

However, for policy reasons, as well as to
strengthen the legal grounds, I am of the opinion
that action should not be taken under the proposal

without your approval and authorization. If you will
indicate your approval and authorization below, I

70

-3shall take steps to put the proposal into operation
under such conditions and arrangements as I find
necessary and proper to protect and promote the

interests of the United States.

Faithfully yours,

Secretary of the Treasury.

The President,
The White House.

Approved:

+/8

71

APR 7-1942 -

My dear Mr. President:

It has been proposed that the existing
shortage in copper may be alleviated to some extent

by substituting silver for copper in certain processes
in connection with war production. The Department

of the Treasury would make available to war plants,
both Government and privately owned, certain "free

silver" from the available silver stocks of the
Government. The silver would not become a part of

the products of the plants, nor would it be used up.
It would rather be used as plant equipment in such

a way as to permit substantially all of it to be
returned to the Government at or about the termination of the war, or before if the Government should
so demand. The silver would not be sold, and safeguards would be adopted to insure the return thereof
to the Government and to indennify the United States

against loss of the silver from wear and tear or
from other reason. "Free silver" is uncoined silver

72

-2owned by the Government, but which is not held for

redemption of any outstanding silver certificates.

The supply of "free silver" is large enough to release large quantities of copper for other warense

needs, if the proposal is carried out.
It is the view of this Department that you
have plenary power under the Joint Resolutions of
December 8 and December 11, 1941, 55 Stat. 795, 796,

797, in which a state of war was declared between
the United States and Japan, Germany, and Italy, to

authorize action to be taken in accordance with the
above outlined proposal. Furthermore, the Department

is in receipt of an opinion of the Attorney General
of the United States to the effect that the Secretary
of the Treasury has authority to carry out the proposal without approval or authorisation from you.

However, for policy reasons, as well as to
strengthen the legal grounds, I am of the opinion
that action should not be taken under the proposal

without your approval and authorisation. If you will
indicate your approval and authorisation below, I

73

shall take steps to put the proposal into operation
under such conditions and arrangements as I find
necessary and proper to protect and promote the

interests of the United States.

Faithfully yours,
(Signed) H. Morgenthau, Jr.

Secretary of the Treasury.

The President,
The White House.

Approved:

ERF:EHFivls - 4/6/42

74

April 7, 1942
MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY'S DIARY:

Secretary Morgenthau suggested that Harry White

and I talk to the legislative leaders in regard to a proposal made by the War Production Board that we make some

of our free silver stock available for use in war plants

being erected by the Government or by private persons for

the production of war materials as a substitute for copper.

The silver would be loaned under control safeguards and
would be returned to the Treasury after the emergency when
the copper shortage was not so acute.

Harry White and I saw Congressmen Jere Cooper and
Eugene Cox, Acting Majority Leader and Speaker pro tem in
the absence of Congressman McCormack and Speaker Rayburn,

in Parliamentarian Lewis Deschler's office at 1:30 P.M. on

Thursday, April 2, 1942. Deschler was also present. I

outlined the proposal and told them that we had looked into
the legality and had come to the conclusion that the scheme

was legally feasible. I also told them that we had taken
the matter up with the Attorney General and from our con-

versations with his representatives it appeared to us that
he would agree with our conclusions. I told them that our
purpose in coming to them was to get their reaction as to

whether or not we should go ahead, provided the Attorney
General was with us, without coming to Congress for specific

legislative authority.

Congressman Cox read carefully my memorandum

(printed copy of which is attached) as did Mr. Deschler.

After some discussion Congressman Cox thought our position
was reasonable and saw no reason why we should not go ahead

if the proposal is within the law. Congressman Cox did not
think we could be criticized and if we were he said he

would defend us publicly. Congressman Cooper said we might

come down and discuss it with them if the Attorney General's
opinion was not favorable at which time he would call in

Congressman Martin to see if some agreement couldn't be

reached on the wording of a joint resolution restricted to

75

-2what we wanted to accomplish. Otherwise he thought we

should go ahead without legislation. Mr. Deschler was
concerned merely by the scope of the President's authority
under the Joint Resolution declaring a state of war to

exist between the United States and Germany should we

conclude that the language of the resolution is broad
enough to permit the President to make the free silver
stock available as a copper substitute for war plants.

His observations held merely to the reasons expressed
in the memorandum. He had no objection to the purpose

wh ich we sought to achieve.

Mr. White and I then went to Col. House's office
where we talked briefly with Senator Barkley. Senator
Barkley told us that the Senate was in recess until
April 20 and would not have a quorum for the conduct of

legislative business until that time. After I had ex-

plained the problem to him he thought we should go ahead
but agreed to consult Senator McNary. When McNary

joined us I told him what we proposed to do and without
hesitation he suggested that we go ahead. He said that

silver legislation at this time would open up the entire
silver question and the delay would be interminable.

9.117th

OP. NO. 517

MAR. 30 1942
To:

Secretary Morgenthau

From: Mr. Foley

The question has arisen whether there is authority
to permit the use of the available oilver stocks 1/ of the Government in-Industrial defense plants, both Government and privately

owned, in substitution for copper. The silver is to be used in

such manner that it will not become a part of the product or be
used up, but will be made a part of the plant equipment and will
be returned at the termination of the war. There may be some
small loss from conversion and reconversion of the bars of silver.

The authority of the Secretary of the Treasury to sell
silver pursuant to section 4 of the Silver Purchase Act of 1934 2,
can be exercised only when the market price of silver is in excess
of its monetary value or silver stocks exceed 25 per centum of the
value of the monetary stocks of both gold and silver, neither of
which conditions presently exists. However, the Joint Resolution
of December 8, 1941, declaring a state of war between the United
States and the Imperial Government of Japan (Joint Resolution of
December 8, 1941, c. 561, 55 Stat. 795). provides:
..

the President is hereby authorised
and directed to employ the entire naval and

military forces of the United States and the
resources of the Government to carry on war
I

The only silvor which is considered in this connection is the
so-called "free silver". Section 5 of the Silver Purchase Act of

1934 requires the maintenance, as security for outstanding silvor

certificates, of silver bullion and standard silvor dollars of a

monetary value equal to the total face amount of silver certificates issued both before and after the passage of the Act.
2

Act of June 19, 1934, C. 674, sec. 4, 48 Stat. 1178, (U.S.C.,
1940 ed., title 31, SOC. 734b).

76

77
-

against the Imperial Government of Japan; and,

to bring the conflict to a successful termination, all of the resources of the country are

hereby plodged by the Congress of the United
States.

3 (Underscoring supplied.)

That language is identical with the language of the
Joint Resolutions of April 6, 1917. 40 Stat. 1, and December 7.
1917, 40 Stat. 429, which respectively declared a state of war to
exist between the Imporial Gorman Government and the United States
and betwoon the Imperial and Royal Austro-Hungarian Government
and the Unitod Statos.

That broad powers were granted to the President by the
Joint Resolutions of April 6, 1917, and December 7. 1917, has been
recognized both by the Supreme Court and the lower Federal courts
and in proclamations and executive orders issued by President Wilson
during the first World War. Thus, the Suprome Court in Highland V.
Russell Car Company, (1929) 279 U.S. 253, sustained the fixing of
the price of coal under the Lever Act (Act of August 10, 1917.
C. 53, 40 Stat. 276, as amended). and in 60 doing, citod, among

other applicable statutos, the Joint Resolution of April 6, 1917.

as follows:

"The Joint Resolution of April 6, 1917.
40 Stat. 1, declaring war with Germany directed
the President to employ the entire naval and
military forces and pledged all the resources of
the country to bring the conflict to a successful
termination."

*

*

The Court in that case hold that ..

the Congress and

the President exert the war power of the nation, and they have wide

The identical language is contained in the Joint Resolution
of December 11, 1941, C. 564, 55 Stat. 796, declaring a state of

3/

war between the United States and the Government of Gormany, and

in the Joint Resolution of December 11, 1941, C. 565, 55 Stat. 797,
declaring a state of war between the United States and the
Government of Italy.

-3-

78

discretion as to the means to be employed successfully to carry on. .
See also Virginian Railway V. Mullens, (1926) 271 U.S. 220, 224.
Again in United States V. Wells, (D. T.D. Wash. 1917) 262 Fed. 833,
the court stated that since the President was directed by the
Congress to employ the entire naval and Military forces to carry
on war against the Imporial German Government, it was immaterial,
in a prosocution for conspiracy to prevent the enforcement of laws
relating to mobilization of the Army, whother the Selectivo Draft
Law (Act of May 18, 1917, C. 15, 40 Stat. 76) had been passed or

not at the time of the alleged conspiracy. Finally, in United

States V. McIntosh, (D. E.D. Va. 1932) 2 F. Supp. 244, app. dism.
(C.C.A. 4th, 1934) 70 F. (2d) 507. cert. denied (1934) 293 U.S.

586, the court, in an obiter dictum, recognized the right of the

Government to condemn land by virtue of the powers granted in the

Joint Resolution of April 6, 1917.

Censorship of telephone and telograph lines and submarino cables was established by President Wilson pursuant to the
authority of the Joint Resolution of April 6, 1917, supra. Thus,
by Executive Order No. 2604, datod April 28, 1917, he prohibited
the transmission by companies or persons owning, controlling, or
supplying telegraph and telophone lines or submarine cables from
transmitting messages without the United States and from delivering
messages received from such points except under rules and regula-

tions ostablished therefor. The only authority cited for the

action was:

the power vested in mo under the
Constitution and by the Joint Resolution passed
by Congress on April 6. 1917. declaring the ex*

n+

istence of a state of war,

Exocutive Order No. 2605A, dated April 30, 1917, authorising the Secretary of the Navy to take over radio stations, was
stated to be issued upon the authority of the Joint Resolution of
Congress dated April 6, 1917 and the Act to Regulate Radio ComExecutivo Order No. 2967, dated September 26, 1918, which
nodified Executive Order No. 2604, was predicated upon the same
authority.

4

79

-4munications, approved August 13, 1912. 5 In addition, President
Wilson issued three proclamations taking over various rail and
water transportation systems. Proclamation of December 26, 1917,

40 Stat. 1733; Proclamation of April 11, 1918, 40 Stat. 1769;
Proclamation of June 22, 1918, 40 Stat. 1808. In all of those
proclamations the President cited as authority for the action
taken not only the Act of August 29, 1916, empowering him to assume control of the systems of transportation, but also the
Joint Resolutions of April 6, 1917 and December 7. 1917.

It is apparent, therefore, that the direction contained
in the Joint Resolutions of December 11, 1941, and December 8.
1941, authorizing and directing the President to employ the
resources of the Government to carry on the war, vests in him
broad discretionary powers concerning the use of the Government
resources. The "resources" of a county have been defined to
include "land, timber, coal, crops, improvements, railways, factories, and everything that goes to make up its wealth or to
render it desirable. N Jofferson County V. Peter, (Ky. 1907)
105 S.W. 887, 888. And in Moore V. State Social Security Connission, (Mo. App. 1938) 122 .7.(2d) 391, 394, the word "resources"
was defined as "money or any property that can be converted into
supplies: means of raising money or supplies; available means or
capability of any kind."

My conclusion, therefore, is that it is within the
President's powers under the Joint Resolutions of December 8, 1941,

and December 11, 1941, to direct that "free silver" contained in
the available stocks of the Government be transmitted to industrial
plants engaged in defonso production for uso by such plants in that
production in a mannor which will permit substantially all of it
to be returned at the termination of the war.
(Signed) E. H. Foley, Jr.
General Counsel

5/

It is to be noted that the order was originally issued as

Executive Order No. 2585, dated April 6, 1917. The two orders

are identical except that the latter order inserted as an authority for the action taken the Joint Resolution of April 6, 1917.

80
COPY

OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

WASHINGTON, D. 0.

April 7. 1942

The Honorable,

The Secretary of the Treasury.
My dear Mr. Secretary:

If you approve, I should like to have published, in accordance

with U.S.C., title 5. sec. 305, my opinion to you of April 7. 1942.
transmitted herewith, concerning the authority of the Treasury Do-

partment to lease or license free silver in place of copper for production.

Please let me know whether you have any objection to its publication.

Respectfully,

/a/ Francis Biddle

Atterney General.

81
COPY

OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

Washington, D. C.

April 7, 1942

The Honorable,

The Secretary of the Treasury.
My dear Mr. Secretary:

Your letter of April 1, 1942, requests my opinion on the following
questions Can the Treasury lease or license the use of "free silver"
in the place of copper for war production in both Government and
privately-owned plants under an agreement to assure the return of
the silver?

It is my opinion that you, as Secretary of the Treasury, can so
lease or license the use of "free silver."
In your request for my opinion you state that:

"It is not intended that the silver will become a part of

the products or be used up, but rather will become a part
of the plant equipment in such a way as to permit substan-

tially all of it to be returned to the Government at the

termination of the war or before at the Government's request. The silver will not be sold, and safeguafds will

be adopted to insure the return of the silver * * # and
properly to indeanify the Government if any silver is lost

from wear and tear or for other reason."

The silver referred to in your statement is "free silver"-uncoined
silver owned by the Government which need not be held as security for

outstanding silver certificates.
With the approval of the President, the Secretary of the Treasury
is authorised by the Silver Purchase Act of June 19, 1934 (48 Stat. 1178;

-2-

82

U.S.C., title 31, sec. 734(b)), to sell "free silver" acquired under
that Act. This authority may be exercised "whenever and so long as
the market price of silver exceeds its monetary value or the monetary

value of the stocks of silver is greater than 25 per centure of the

monetary value of the stocks of gold and silver." either of those
conditions now exists. This statutory provision does not, therefore,
confer authority, under present conditions, for the sale of "free
silver" acquired under the Silver Purchase Act. But nothing in the
Act of June 19, 1934, or in any other statute, prohibits the leasing
or licensing of *free silver" for the intended purposes.

Leasing of the "free silver" is authorised by statute (Act of
March 3, 1879, c. 182, 20 Stat. 377, 383, U.S.C., title 40, sec. 303(a)).
That statute provides as follows:

"That authority be, and is hereby, given to the
Secretary of the Treasury to legue, at his discretion for

a period not exceeding five years, such unoccupied and
unproductive property of the United States under his con-

trol, for the leasing of which there is no authority under

existing law, and such leases shall be reported animally to

Congress."

Nothing in the statutes which relate specifically to silver excepts
free silver from the broad sweep of the authority conferred by the Act of
March 3, 1879, in the circumstances here presented.

The authority to lease conferred by the Act of March 3, 1879, is not

limited to property of any particular kind. It applies to property of any
and every kind, owned by the United States and under the control of the

Secretary of the Treasury, provided only that that property is "unoccupied

83
-

and unproductive." Personal property as well as real property can be
unoccupied or unproductive. Where Congress intends to confine its

authority to real property it usually says so in so many words, as it
did, for example, in the surrounding sections of the Code by referring

to "lands", "buildings" or #real property* (U.S.C., title 40, secs. 301,
302, 303b, 304, 304 a-m, 305, 306). Nothing in the legislative history
of the Act of March 3, 1879, indicates that Congress did intend to limit

the statute to real property. In fact, the Act of July 28, 1892 (27 Stat.
321)-giving similar power to lease to the Secretary of War-has been held

to apply to personal property. 31 Op. 457. And the legislative history
of that Act shows that Congress intended to give the Secretary of War in
a more *restricted" manner the power previously given to the Secretary
of the Treasury. 23 Cong. Rec. 2187 (March 18, 1892).

Licensing or other similar permission to use the Pfree silver" is
also authorised by section 161 of the Revised Statutes (U.S.C., title 5,
sec. 22) which provides that,
"The head of each department is authorised to prescribe

regulations, not inconsistent with law, for the government of
his department, the conduct of its officers and clerks, the
distribution and performance of its business, and the custody,
use, and preservation of the records, papers, and property
appertaining to it."
Revocable licenses in the public interest for the use of Government property

can and have been granted many times under this statute. Illustrative is
34 Op. 320, in which Attorney General Stone held that the Secretary of
the Navy had the power to grant revocable licenses to use Government-owned

patents without specific congressional authority.
Aside from the question whether the war powers of the President under

the Constitution may, under certain circumstances, authorise the President to dispose of property of the United States independently of the

-4-

84

constitutional provision authorising the Congress to make and regulate

such dispositions, it is clear that the Congress, in Section 161 of the
Revised Statutes, has given the head of a department power-short of

complete alienation of title and control-over "the oustody, use and
preservation" of such property. Under this statute, the Secretary of
the Treasury is empowered to permit the use of free silver when he does

not relinquish paramount control over it. But such permission to use
must result in a benefit to the Government. The benefit need not be
consideration in the technical sense. Under the circumstances stated,
the Government would be arranging for the use of the silver to permit

the release of copper-a strategie and critical material vitally necessary in the manufacture of articles of war. Such a benefit is of the
highest order. For governments, as for individuals, self preservation
is one of the first rules of existence.

But such a benefit alone is not sufficient to justify a windfall
to a private manufacturer, The lease or license should be so drafted
that any exorbitant profit which might accrue to a private manufacturer
by stbstitution of silver for copper would be compensated for by some

payment or other benefit flowing from the private manufacturer to the
United States, The payment or other benefit need not be exactly equiva-

lent, a broad range of negotiation, of course, exists in which the Secretary may exercise his administrative discretion.
The leasing or licensing of "free silver", under the conditions
stated by you, would not be inconsistent with the silver policy declared
by the Congress. Section 2 of the Silver Purchase Act of 1934 states

85

10 to be #the policy of the United States that the proportion of silver to
gold is the monetary stocks of the United States should be increased,

with the ultimate objective of having and maintaining. one-fourth of the

menotary value of such stocks in silver." The leased or licensed silver,
though not in the possession of the Treasury or of the Government dan.

ing the term of the lease, would still be a part of the "stocks of
silver." That term, 18 is provided in section 10 of the Silver Purchase
Ast of 1934, "neans the total amount of silver at the time owned by the
United States (whether or not held as security for outstanding currency

of the United States) and of silver contained is coins of the United
States at the time outstanding." There is as statute which requires

that *free silver' ovaed by the United States shall be retained in the
possession of the Treasury in deregation of the authority to lease conforred by the Ast of March 3. 1879. or to license conferred by Section
161 of the Revised Statutes. On the centrary, the policy of Congress
has been to direct that all necessary steps be taken to develop and con-

serve our supplies of strategie and critical materials. See Act of
June 7. 1939 (53 Stat. 811; U.S.O., title 50. sec. 98).

Since 19 is not desired to sell the #free silver" is is unnocessary
to pass ea the question of whether such statutes as the Ast of July 9.
1918, as amended (40 Stat. 845, U.S.O., title 40, sec. 314, 40 Stat.
1173: 45 Stat. 986), when read together with the Silver Purchase Act

of 1934 authorise the sale of silver as a war material.
Because it is my opinion that you, as Secretary of the Treasury.
without approval or other action by the President, are authorised by
statute to lease #free silver' to agencies of the Government and to

86

-6private interests for the use is question, for terms not exceeding five

years, or to great a reveable license for each use, I doom 10 eary to determine whether there is authority is the President, conferred

by the Constitution, to permit such a use of #Suce silver." Similarly,
I de set think 19 is necessary for me to assuer the question whether the
Joint Resolutions of December 8 and 11, 1941 (55 Stat. 795: 55 Stat. 796:

55 Stat. 797). directing the President to employ "the resources of the
Government's 90 carry on the war, constitute congressional senation for

the alienation of title to or the use of #free silver* in the war
effort.
Respectfully,
(signed) Francis Biddle
Attorney General.

87
APR 7 1942

Mr. Elmer L. Irey,

Chief of Intelligence Unit,

Bureau of Internal Revenue.

Sirs

You are hereby appointed Technical Assistant to the

Secretary, effective April 9, 1942, without change in compensation or pay rell.
Under your new assignment you will devote full time to

the work of coordinating the activities of the enforcement
branches of the Treasury Department, and are hereby relieved

of your responsibility as Chief of the Intelligence Unit,
Bureau of Internal Revenue.

Very truly yours,
(Signed) R. Morgeathan. site

Secretary of the Treasury.

n.m.c.
copies T thompson
on

4-3-42

88
APR 7 1942
Through the Bureau of the Budget
Attorney General

Division of the

Federal Register
My dear Mr. President:

There is submitted for your consideration a proposed Executive
Order establishing the Interdepartmental Committee for the Voluntary
Pay Roll Savings Plan for the purchase of Defense Savings Bonds.
Programs providing for the purchase of Defense Savings Bonds by
means of periodic allotments from pay have been widely adopted

throughout business and industry, and in a few instances by departments of the Government. Such arrangements are popular with the employees to whom the savings and investment facilities are made

available. This is reflected not only in a high percentage of per
capita participation but also in a substantial increase in the amount
of bonds periodically purchased.
The Treasury Department has recently established such a system a Pay Roll Savings Plan whereby every officer and employee has the
opportunity to purchase Defense Savings Bonds through periodic

allotments from his pay. The plan is entirely voluntary. The election as to whether to participate, and as to the amount (in excess
of a reasonable minimum) to be deducted each pay day for accumulation

towards the purchase of a bond, are matters within the discretion of
the individual.

Issuance of the proposed Executive Order would most effectively
promote the adoption of the Pay Roll Savings Plan throughout the

89

-2Government, thereby making the plan available to substantially all
civilian officers and employees. The Order does not contemplate
that the Interdepartmental Committee would exercise regulatory

authority over the administrative practices or policies of the
several departments, establishments, and agencies.
The proposed Executive Order designates Rear Admiral Charles

Conard, Supply Corps, United States Navy, Retired, to be Chairman

of the Interdepartmental Committee. Admiral Conard is Coordinator
for Defense Savings Bonds in the Navy Department, and under his

direction campaigns for the sale of these bonds throughout the Naval

establishments have achieved impressive results. He is familiar
wi th the Pay Roll Savings Plan in operation in the Treasury Department, and is, in every way, competent and qualified to undertake the
important task of leadership contemplated by the proposed Executive

Order. I am informed that his designation in the proposed Executive
Order meets with the approval of the Secretary of the Navy.

Faithfully yours,
(Signed) E. Morgoathan. IN

Secretary of the Treasury.

The President,
The White House.

n.m. C.

file to Thought
By

Messenger Sturges 5:31pm

THE SECRETARY OF THE NAVY
WASHINGTON

April 1, 1942

Ny dear Henry:

This will acknowledge receipt of yours of March 31
enclosing a copy of a proposed executive order establishing the
Interdepartmental Committee for the Voluntary Pay Roll Savings Plan

for the Purchase of Defense Savings Bonds.

I BE very much delighted that the good work done by
Admiral Conard in the Navy Department has resulted in this well

deserved recognition from you and from the President, I will be
very glad, indeed, to acquiesce in the selection of Admiral Conard
for Chairman of the proposed committee. I assume that he will want
to take with him, P.B his assistant, Commander Bubank, who has been

associated with him here in the Department in this work, To lose
both of these men from our program will be R serious loss, but I

will try to find some way to fill the gap.

Sincerely yours,

The Honorable Henry Morgenthau, Jr.

Secretary of the Treasury
Washington, D. C.

91

EXECUTIVE ORDER

ESTABLISHING THE INTERDEPARTMENTAL COMMITTEE FOR THE
VOLUNTARY PAY ROLL SAVINGS PLAN FOR THE PURCHASE OF
DEFENSE SAVINGS BONDS

WHEREAS it daily becomes more apparent that victory

will require the fullest participation of all of the people
in our war effort, and that the purchase of Defense Savings

Bonds constitutes a direct and effective participation;
WHEREAS every purchaser of Defense Savings Bonds

invests not only in the success of the Nation's common
cause, but also in his own personal security and independ-

ence; and it is, therefore, to the manifest advantage of
both the Government and every citizen that the sale of
Defense Savings Bonds should be facilitated; and,
WHEREAS employers and employees in many business and

industrial enterprises, as well as some Governmental activities, have developed, and are maintaining, with notable
success, programs that provide for the purchase of Defense
Savings Bonds through regular, voluntary pay allotments; and

it is proper that all civilian employees and officers in the
executive branch of the Government should be afforded equal

opportunity for voluntary participation in such systematic
purchase programs;

92

-2-

NOW, THEREFORE, by virtue of the authority vested in

me by the Constitution and the Statutes of the United

States as President of the United States, it is hereby
ordered as follows:

1. There is hereby established the Interdepartmental
?

Committee for the Voluntary Pay Roll Savings Plan for the
Purchase of Defense Savings Bonds (hereinafter referred

to as the Committee). The Committee shall consist of
Rear Admiral Charles Conard, Supply Corps, United States
Navy, Retired, who shall serve as Chairman, and the head

of each of the several departments, establishments, and
agencies in the executive branch of the Government. Each
member of the Committee, other than the Chairman, may

designate an alternate from among the officials of his
department, establishment, or agency, and such alternate

may act for such member in all matters relating to the
Committee.

2. The Committee shall perform the following functions and duties:
a. Formulate and recommend to the several departments,

establishments, and agencies in the executive branch of the
Government a uniform plan whereby all civilian officers and
employees may systematically purchase Defense Savings Bonds

through voluntary pay allotments.
b. Assist the several departments, establishments, and

agencies in the adoption of said voluntary pay allotment
plan and in the solution of any special problems that may
develop in connection therewith.

93

-3-

c. Act as a clearing house for the several departments,
establishments, and agencies in the dissemination of such

statistics and information relative to the execution of
the plan as may be deemed advantageous.

d. Recommend to the several departments, establishments,
and agencies any improvements in the program adopted pursuant

to said plan.

3. In each of the departments, establishments, and
agencies in the executive branch of the Government which has

not heretofore adopted a program of the character contemplated

by this Executive Order there shall be instituted and set in
operation as soon as may be the plan recommended by the

Committee, with such modifications as particular circumstances may render advisable. Each Committee member shall

act as liaison officer between the Committee and his department, establishment, or agency with regard to said plan.

THE WHITE HOUSE

April

, 1942

TREASURY DEPARTMENT

94

INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE April 7, 1942.
TO

FROM

The Secretary
Harold Graves

Herewith I hand you a memorandum from Mr. Pehle regard-

ing the stock of the Santa Fe Railroad which is under Government
control.

You will recall that this matter came up in connection
with some supposed difficulties which have arisen in the Santa

Fe Railroad's payroll allotment plan.

95

TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION
DATE

April 30, 1942

Mr. Graves

Mr. Pehle

Re: Stock Holdings in Atchison, Topeka
and Santa Fe Railroad.

The following information is furnished at your request.
Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railroad Common Stock - Amount held by foreign nationals is

31% Approximately one-half of this 31% is owned
by nationals of the Netherlands, Canada and the
United Kindgom.

Preferred Stock - Amount held by foreign nationals

is 2%. Most of the 2% is held by nationals of the
United Kingdom.

Nationals of Germany, Italy and Japan have very small hold-

ings in either preferred or common stock of the railroad.

JOHNSAN

NEW YORK - P. M. - April 7. 1942.

96

Treasury's Anti-Labor Blast
Suppressed by Morgenthau
Secretary Recalled Transcriptions of Program
Dramatizing Scripps-Howard Editorial in 40-Hour-Week Fight
By KENNETH G. CRAWFORD
PM's Bureau

The program opened with the voice of a
laboling man demanding higher wages,
shotter hours and less work. Other voices
joined in. Employers demanding greater
profits joined when that theme became a

WASHINGTON, Apr. 7.-Treasury
Secretary
intervened
PIII personally Morgenthau
last week to suppress an
chorus. But it was labor's demands that got
antilabor broadcast arranged and approved
the most attention.
by the Treasury's Defense Savings division
places the program followed closely
The broadcast was a dramatization of the theIneditorial,
which said:
rip roaring labor is to - blame-for-almost
"We will not get maximum production
everything editorial recently published by
Unless, first, we fully realize our awful
the Scripps-Howard newspapers. It was peril and, second, get over the gimmes of
written by E. T. Leech, editor of Scripps
recent years.
Howard's Pittsburgh Press, and carried by
all members of the chain.
Labor Misrepresented
Many other newspapers have reprinted
"Gimme shorter hours, gimme higher
the editorial. It has been a hot coal in the wages, gimme bigger profits, gimme more
fire under the 40-hour week. Because it
overtime, gimme less work, gimme more
harped on the theme that labor was hopepensions, gimme greater crop benefits,
lessly avaricious, it probably will enjoy still
gimme more appropriations and patronage,
further national circulation.
gimme plants for my Congressional district,
The broadcast-one of the highly success
gimme fees and dues to work for Uncle
ful series put on by Treasury bond salesSam, gimme ham 'n' eggs, gimme share-themen-was made before Morgenthau found
wealth, gimme $30 every Thursday.
out about it. Several renowned movie actors
"France had the gimmes, too-had them
till the Germans were close to Paris. Then
including Fredric March and Janet Gaynor,
played parts. It was transcribed for broad
everybody went frantically to work - too
cast by local stations throughout the coun- late.
try.
"France has no gimmes today - except
gimme
food for my baby, gimme a place to
Morgenthau Steps In
lay my head, gimme death.
Morgenthau immediately ordered the re
Just who was responsible for the program
call of the transcriptions.
was
not disclosed. The Treasury is full of
It is understood that one station in CleveOld Dealers, some of whom apparently
land used the records either because it
tried to put over an antilabor broadcast at
failed to get the recall order or because
Government expense without Morgenthau's
ignored it. The Treasury has announced the
were

available is
program will be junked

the digates However, records that the the best recalled information for "revision

rather than revised.

knowledge.

The fact is that labor organizations have
been the most enthusiastic supporters of the

Government's bond program. Hundreds of
union members have authorized deductions

from their to buy bonds. The Treasury's

is recalcitrant at
trouble at the moment, it is

only with pay employers who understijod, ball

checking off the bond purchase money.

97

CONFIDENTIAL

UNITED STATES SAVINGS BONDS

Comparative Statement of Sales During

First Five Business Days of April, March and February 1942
(April 1-6, March 1-6, February 1-6)
On Basis of Issue Price
(Amounts in thousands of dollars)

:

:

:

:

:

:
:

Total

over
March

$ 16,436
48,680

$ 20,228
54,304

$ 25,467
98,234

65,115
9,400
36.773

74,532
9,768
52,758

123,701
19,116
91,087

$111,289

$137,058

$233,904

-$ 3,792

:

:

:

Series F - Banks
Series G - Banks

:

Series E - Total

February

:

Series E - Banks

March

over

: February

: March

March
over

: February

- 5,624

-$ 5,239
- 43,930

- 10.4

- 44.7

- 9,417

- 49,169

- 12.6

- 18.7%

- 20.6%

- 15,985

- 38,329

- 9.348

- 3.8
- 30.3

- 39.7
- 48.9
- 42.1

-$25,769

-$96,846

- 18.8%

- 41.4%

-

368

Office of the Secretary of the Treasury, Division of Research and Statistics.
Source:

: April
: over

:

:

:

April

Percentage of Increase
or Decrease (-)
:

:

Series E - Post Offices

or Decrease (-)
March
April

:

:

Item

Amount of Increase

:

Sales

April 7. 1942.

All figures are deposits with the Treasurer of the United States on account of proceeds
of sales of United States savings bonds.
Note: Figures have been rounded to nearest thousand and will not necessarily add to totals.

CONFIDENT
UNITED STATES SAVINGS BONDS

Daily Sales - April, 1942
On Basis of Issue Price

(In thousands of dollars)
Post Office
Date

Bank Bond Sales

Bond Sales

All Bond Sales

Series E

Series E

Series F

Series G

Total

Series E

Series F

Series G

Total

$ 2,476

$ 10,517

$ 2,380

$ 9,608

$ 22,504

$ 12,993

$ 2,380

8,264
7,572
9,292

$ 9,608

$ 24,980

2,999
3,222
2,778

2,119
1,185
1,387

7,570
6,235
5,334

17,953
14,992
16,013

11,263
10,794
12,070

2,119
1,185
1,387

7.570
6,235
5,334

20,953
18,214
18,790

4,961

13,035

2,329

8,027

23,391

17,996

2,329

8,027

28,352

$ 16,436

$ 48,680

$ 9,400

$ 36,773

$ 94,853

$ 65,115

$ 9,400

$ 36,773

$111,289

April 1942
1

2

3

4

6

Total

Office of the Secretary of the Treasury, Division of Research and Statistics.
Source: All figures are deposits with the Treasurer of the United States on account of proceeds of
sales of United States savings bonds.
Note: Figures have been rounded to nearest thousand and will not necessarily add to totals.

April 7. 1942.

99

APR 7- 1942

Dear Mr. McConnell:

On March 6, 1942, I discussed with you the

operation of the affairs of General Aniline and Film
Corporation. I pointed out that the Treasury Department would not try to run an industrial company, but

wanted to be sure that the affairs of General Aniline
were in the hands of competent mon of both technical
training and business experience capable of operating

the affairs of the company in a business-like manner.

At that time I indicated my desire that those
chosen to manage the affairs of the company take into

account at all times the fact that (1) the United

States is at war; and (2) that it is the intention
and desire of the Government as the company's principal

stockholder, and presunably of all other stockholders,

that the activities and facilities of the company are

to be applied to the fullest extent to the war effort.
You agreed to suggest without delay a Board

of Directors of not more than four who in your judgment

100

would be well qualified to conduct the affairs of
the company along these lines.

Accordingly, the following were suggested
by yous

Dr. Robert E. Wilson
Mr. George M. Moffett
Dr. Edward R. Weidlein

Mr. A. E. Marshall
A meeting was arranged for me with Mr. Moffett,

Dr. Wilson and Dr. Weidlein for 11 o'clock on March 9.
At that time we came to a general understanding both as

to the fact that you would assume the presidency of the
company when elected as such by a new Board of Directors

(to include Mr. Moffett and Dr. Wilson) and as to the

general policies to be pursued in the operation of the
company.

How that the new Board of Directors, composed

of yourself, Mr. Moffett, Dr. Wilson and Mr. Marshall,
has been elected, and you have been selected by them as

Chairman of the Board and President, I wish to confirm

officially to you and your Board the substance of my

101

-3earlier discussions with you, as outlined above. I
might also repeat what I have said before to the effect
that the new Board of Managing Directors is to have

complete authority and control of the selection of competent Americans to restaff the company, and that the
company, both during and after its Americanisation, is
to be run in all ways in accordance with sound American
business methods,

I might say to you that this letter has the
approval of Mr. Leo Crowley, Alien Property Custodian.

Sincerely yours,

(Signed) H. Morgenthau, Jr.

Secretary of the Treasury.
Mr. R. E. McConnell,
President,

General Aniline & Film Corp.,

230 Park Avenue,
New York, New York.

Read to Leo Crowley over telephone and approved
JJO'C 1mdm

4/6/42

4/7/42 - 3:20 p.m. per E. H. F., Jr.

102

APR 7-1942

Dear Mr. McConnell:

On March 6, 1942, I discussed with you the

operation of the affairs of General Aniline and Film
Corporation. I pointed out that the Treasury Department would not try to run an industrial company, but
wanted to be sure that the affairs of General Aniline
were in the hands of competent mon of both technical

training and business experience capable of operating
the affairs of the company in a business-like manner.

At that time I indicated my desire that those
chosen to manage the affairs of the company take into

account at all times the fact that (1) the United

States is at war; and (2) that it is the intention
and desire of the Government as the company's principal

stockholder, and presumably of all other stockholders,

that the activities and facilities of the company are

to be applied to the fullest extent to the war effort.
You agreed to suggest without delay a Board

of Directors of not more than four who in your judgment

103

would be well qualified to conduct the affairs of
the company along these lines.

Accordingly, the following were suggested
by yous

Dr. Robert E. Wilson
Mr. George M. Moffett
Dr. Edward R. Weidlein

Mr. A. E. Marshall
A meeting was arranged for me with Mr. Moffett,
Dr. Wilson and Dr. Weidlein for 11 o'clock on March 9.
At that time we came to a general understanding both as

to the fact that you would assume the presidency of the
company when elected as such by a new Board of Directors

(to include Mr. Moffett and Dr. Wilson) and as to the
general policies to be pursued in the operation of the
company.

Now that the new Board of Directors, composed

of yourself, Mr. Moffett, Dr. Wilson and Mr. Marshall,
has been elected, and you have been selected by them as

Chairman of the Board and President, I wish to confirm

officially to you and your Board the substance of my

104

-3earlier discussions with you, as outlined above. I
might also repeat what I have said before to the effect
that the new Board of Managing Directors is to have

complete authority and control of the selection of competent Americans to restaff the company, and that the

company, both during and after its Americanization, is
to be run in all ways in accordance with sound American
business methods.

I might say to you that this letter has the
approval of Mr. Leo Crowley, Alien Property Custodian.
Sincerely yours,

(Signed) H. Morgenthau, Je.

Secretary of the Treasury.
Mr. R. E. McConnell,
President,

General Aniline & Film Corp.,

230 Park Avenue,
New York, New York.

Read to Leo Crowley over telephone and approved

JJO'C 1mdm

4/6/42

4/7/42 - 3:20 p.m. per E. H. F., Jr.

105

APR 7 1948

Dear Mr. Ambassador:

I am glad to receive your letter of March 24,

1942 transmitting to me a message from Dr. H. N. Kung
regarding the Wood 011 Loan. I appreciate your gener-

oue words recalling the situation at the time when the
Wood 011 Loan was granted to China. As you know, the

fight of the Chinese people for their independence and

freedom has always had ay admiration and support, and
it has been a source of great satisfaction to me to be
of some assistance.

The difficulties which the Chinese Government has
had to overcome in repaying this loan and the benefits
derived by the American people from this loan are deeply
appreciated by ayeelf and the other members of the
United States Government.

I am enclosing a massage which you will kindly
forward to Dr. Kung in reply to his message to me.
Sincerely yours,
(Signed) M. Morgenthan, Jine

Secretary of the Treasury.
His Excellency,

The Ambassador of the

Republic of China,

Washington, D. C.
Enclosure

Photo plenin.c
By Messenger Brown

4:25

ISF/efe
4/6/48

Return to Secretary's office

106

APR ' 1942

To:

Dr. Kung

From: Secretary of the Treasury
Your telegram of March 21, 1942 informing
as that you have authorized the Universal Trading
Corporation to hand over the last installment
necessary for the complete repayment of the Wood
011 Loan of February 8, 1939 was transmitted to
as by Ambassador Hu Shih.

You. Mr. K. P. Chen and the other members
of the Chinese Government the are responsible for
the splendid record which China has is the repay-

sent of this lean have acted in a matter in accordand with the honorable tradition of China and its
Government in its relations with the United States.

19F/efa
4/7/42
By Messenger

CHINESE EMBASSY
WASHINGTON, D.C.

March 24, 1942
My dear Secretary:

It gives me great pleasure to transmit to you the
telegraphic message from Dr. H. H. Kung in which he
informs you that he has authorized the Universal Trad-

ing Corporation to pay the last installment necessary for
the complete repayment of the Wood oil Loan of February

8, 1939. The proceeds from the sale of wood oil have
enabled the Chinese Government to liquidate its obligations almost two years ahead of the schedule.
In the absence of Mr. K. P. Chen who originally
negotiated this loan, I cannot help adding a few words
to express my profound personal appreciati on of your great
kindness and that of Secretary Jones in recommending to

the President the granting of this first loan to China at
a time when the fortunes of the war seemed to be desperately
against the Chinese people.

This loan, which was signed on February 8, 1939, was
announced to the public on December 16, 1938. But, as you

may recall, the granting of the loan WAR actually communicated to Mr. K. P. Chen and myself by you on the
evening of October 25, 1938, - which was the day after

-2-

the evacuation of Hankow, the first provisional capital, and
three days after the loss of Canton. The loss of Canton
and Hankow meant that China from that time on had to fight

a long and most difficult war from her new military bases
in Western China without any direct access to the sea. The
Burma Road had not been completed. And France was under

strong pressure from Japan to close the French Indo-China

Railway to Chinese war materials. China's outlook of the
war was very black indeed.

Both Mr. Chen and I were greatly disheartened that
day when a message came from you inviting both of us to

a cocktail party at your residence in the evening.
When we arrived at your house, there were no signs

of a cocktail party. If I recall correctly, you said to us:
"The arrangements for the first loan to be secured on wood
oil were completed this morning and Mr. Jesse Jones has
approved them. We both recommended to the President that

the loan be granted to China. The President said that
he would be glad to authorize the loan; but, because of
the bad news of the war of the last few days, he would like
to have some assurance from the Chinese Government that

there will be no change of the Chinese Government's policy

of continuous resistance to aggression. The President will
authorize the loan when such assurance is obtained from the
Chinese Government."

-3-

Mr. Chen and I, without waiting for the cocktails,
withdrew and immediately sent a Joint confidential telegram
to Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek and Dr. H. H. Kung informing them of this important and heartening news. Because of
the absence of the Generalissimo from Chungking, this assurance
from our Government did not come until November 10th. In
the meantime, the details of the Wood 011 Loan were being
worked out between Mr. K. P. Chen and the experts of the

Treasury and the Excort-Import Bank. The loan was announced in December and finally signed on February 8, 1939.

I record these circumstances in order to recall to

you the historical fact that this first important loan was
one of the few factors which helped the Chinese Government

in its determination to fight on for many years to come.
For this generous gesture on the part of the American Government furnished China with the most convincing proof that she
had not been deserted by her friends in her darkest hours

of defeat and distress. The moral effect of this first loan
cannot be over-stated by future historians.
In conclusion, I am very happy to know that China has

been able to repay this friendly assistance, not only by

her faithful fulfilment of the obligations under the terms
of the first and subsequent loan agreements, but also by

-4-

supplying under most difficult conditions a large amount
of strategic materials to the Amrican Government and public.
These loans have brought our two peoples more closely to-

gether in our common fight against aggression and international anarchy.

With renewed assurances of highest esteem, I remain
Yours sincerely,

Hn Shirt
Hu Shih

Honorable Henry Morpenthau, Jr.

Secretary of the Treasury
Washington, D.C.

TELEGRAM TO

MR. HENRY MORGENTHAU, JR., SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY
FROM

DR. H. H. KUNG, MINISTER OF FINANCE
CHUNGKING MARCH 21, 1942

I am happy to inform you that I have authorized
the Universal Trading Corporation to hand over the last
instalment necessary for the complete repayment of the
Wood Oil Loan of February 8, 1939. While the terms of

the Agreement do not require full liquidation of obligation until January 1, 1944, sufficient funds have accumulated to make it possible at this time.
May I say that the Universal Trading Corporation's
action is an indication of China's determination to main-

tain its traditional policy of faithful fulfillment of
all its obligations. I shall also like to take this opportunity of expressing our deep appreciation for United
States financial assistance to China which has been all
the more welcome because of its timeliness.

H. H. Kung

112
THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE
WASHINGTON

April 7, 1942

Personal and

Confidential
Dear Henry:

I am enclosing a copy of a letter which the
President has addressed, under date of April 4,
to the Generalissimo with regard to the repay-

ment of the first twenty-five million dollar
loan. You will remember you spoke to me about

this at the last Cabinet meeting. Many thanks
for your very helpful suggestion.
Believe me

Yours very sincerely,

Enc.

To General Chiang Kai-shek

from President, April 4, 1942

Nathy

The Honorable

Henry Morgenthau, Jr.,

Secretary of the Treasury.

113
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON

April 4, 1942
My dear General Chiang:

The recent notification which we received

through the Chinese Ambassador of arrangements

for completion of the repayment of the Wood 011
Loan of February 8, 1939, in advance of the

schedule provided for in t he contract and entirely from the receipts of the wood oil exported to
this country, has caused this Government much

gratification. I want you to know that we ap-

preciate the attitude of the Chinese Government
in making provision for completing repayment of
the loan in question during these times when the
resources of your country are being so severely

taxed. The splendid tradition which is being
built up by your Government in its financial
relations with us is one of which we, as friends
and partners of China, can be as justly proud
as you must be.
Very sincerely yours,
FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT

General Chiang Kai-shek,
Chairman of the Executive Yuan

of the National Government

of the Republic of China,
Chungking, China.

C
0

April 7. 1942

P

114

I

Mr. Livesey

Mr. D. F. Bell

Referring to telephonic conversation, will you please send the following
telegram to the American Embassy, London:
"From Treasury.

1. The United States Treasury has been informed that the British
Government has agreed to the negotiation of dollar telegraphic transfers, checks drawn on the Treasurer of the United States and the sale

of United States currency for official purposes at the rate of 4.03-1/2
per pound net in the sterling area. To facilitate this program, the
following procedure is suggested.

2. All United States dollar checks drawn on the Treasurer of the
United States negotiated by the London branches of the National City
Bank of New York, the Guaranty Trust Company of New York, the Chase

National Bank of the City of New York and the Bank of England, London,
respectively are to be delivered to the American Embassy, London,

accompanied by list in triplicate with complete description of each
check as follows: name of drawer; symbol number: check number; amount;
payee's name; date of check.

Consular officer will carefully verify checks against list and
advise Treasury by telegram through the State Department aggregate

amount of checks delivered by each bank. Upon receipt of this advice
Treasury will effect payment in corresponding amount to the New York

offices of the National City Bank of New York, the Guaranty Trust
Company of New York and the Chase National Bank of the City of New

-a

115

York respectively and to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York in the
case of the Bank of England.

Consular officer should instruct the respective banks to use all
possible diligence in identification of payee and determining validity
of endorsements. The respective banks should endorse checks as follows:

Quote Pay to the order of the Treasurer of the United States for credit
of our account with (name of bank). Signed (name of bank). London,

England. Unquote. Treasury will look to the respective banks only
for usual guarantee under laws applicable in England.
Consular officer should forward checks accompanied by one copy

of list to Treasurer of United States, Washington, as promptly as possible
by safest means available. Second copy of list should follow by separate

carrier at earliest possible date. Third copy should be retained by
consular officer.

3. In the case of excess United States paper currency, instruct
the banks mentioned above to prepare list in quadruplicate showing
amount of each denomination of each kind of currency separately, and
for Federal Reserve notes and for Federal Reserve Bank notes the list
must show separately the amount of each denomination of the issue of

each bank, out currency in half vertically and stamp or write name of

bank on each half in ink. Then deliver both halves and list in
quadruplicate to American Embassy, London.

4. Consular officer will verify amount of currency delivered
to him against list prepared by bank and then he will telegraph

-3-

116

Treasurer of United States through State Department the amount of

currency delivered to him. When Treasury receives this advice payment in corresponding amounts will be made as outlined in paragraph
number 2. Upon receipt and examination Treasury reserves right to
claim reimbursement for any currency which is not genuine. Each set
of halves should be forwarded by separate carrier accompanied by a

copy of the list. The third copy of list should be forwarded by still
another carrier. American consular officer will retain fourth copy
of list.
5. Consular officer should make no arrangements for insurance
as shipments of both checks and currency will be covered by Government Losses in Shipment Act.

6. The Bank of England, London, is hereby designated a deposi-

tary of public monies of the United States in order to carry out the
procedure outlined in this telegram.
7. Please advise the respective banks and other United States
Government officials of appropriate parts hereof.
8. In order to keep the number of telegrams dispatched to a
minimum it is suggested, if convenient, that the respective banks
deliver to the Embassy their accumulation of checks and currency on
the same day each week and that the Treasury be advised in a single
telegram of the individual amounts of checks and currency received
from each bank.

117

-49. To minimise number of checks drawn on Treasurer of United

States suggest that you advise disbursing officers that they should
telegraph through their respective departments their leal currency
requirements. Arrangements will then be made to advance dollar

credits to their bank of deposit."
The Department approves the foregoing. Any expense incurred in

carrying out the instructions contained in this telegram should be
included in regular accounts as separate item for billing Treasury in
accordance with Sec. V - 45. Foreign Service Regulations.

FD:da:4/7/42

118

TELEGRIM SENT
GR.Y

PH

April 7, 1942
9 p.m.
MEMB..SSY

LONDON (ENGLAND)

1440

For Casaday from the Secretary of the Treasury.
QUOTE. In reply to your 1313 of March 19,
containing inquiry regarding commitments on credit
to Russia, this question is a Lend-Lease and Army

matter, and any inquiry regarding it should be
addressed to the LEnd-LEASE idministration.
WELLES

.......
(FL)

FD:FL:BMcB

C

PARAPHRASE OF TELEGRAM SENT

0

119

P

Y

TO:

American Commissioner, New Delhi, India

DATE:

April 7, 1942, 11 p.m.

NO.:

106

if

The Department has been informed by the National
City Bank of New York that the Bombay branch of the
Bank will be continued.
This telegram should be repeated to Bombay as
no. 120 of the Department.
WELLES

Acting

eh:copy
4-9-42

120
April 7. 1942
Mr. Livesey

Mr. D. W. Bell

Referring to telephonic conversation, will you please send the following
telegram to the American Consul, Belfast, Northern Ireland:
"From Treasury.

1. The United States Treasury has been informed that the British
Government has agreed to the negotiation of dollar telegraphic transfore, cheeks drawn on the Treasurer of the United States and the sale

of United States currency for official purposes at the rate of $4.03-1/2

per pound not in the stealing area. To facilitate this program, the
following procedure is suggested.

2. All United States dollar checks drawn on the Treasurer of
the United States negotiated by the Northern Bank Limited, Delfast,
are to be delivered to the American Consul, Delgast, accompanied by

list in triplicate with complete description each check as follows:
Name of drawer; symbol number: check number: amount: payee's name:
date of cheek.

Consular officer will carefully verify checks against list and
advise Treasury by wire through State Department aggregate amount

of checks delivered by bank. Upen receipt of this advice, Treasury
will effect payment in corresponding amount to the New York corre-

spendent of the Northern Bank Limited. Please include in your first
telegram name of New York correspondent to whom payments are to be
made.

-2

121

Censular officer should instruct Northern Beak Limited to use

all possible diligence in identification of payee and determining
validity of endorsements. Northern Bank Limited should endorse

checks as follows: Quote Pay to the order of the Treasurer of
the United States for credit of our account with (name of bank).
Signed Northern Bank Limited, Belfast. Unquete. Treasury will
look to Northern Bank Limited only for usual guarantee under laws

applicable in Northern Ireland.
Consular officer should forward checks accompanied by one cow

of list to Treasurer of United States, Washington, as promptly as
possible by safest means available. Second COW of list should

follow by separate carrier at earliest possible date. Third copy
should be retained by consular officer.

3. In the case of excess United States paper currency, instrust
Northern Bank Limited to prepare list in quadruplicate showing the
amount of each denomination of each kind of currency separately,
and for Federal Reserve notes and for Federal Reserve Bank notes,

the list must show separately the amount of each denomination of

the issue of each bank, out currency in half vertically and stamp
or write name of bank on each half in ink. Then deliver both halves
and list in quadruplicate to American Consul, Belfast.

4. Consular officer will verify amount of currency delivered
to him against list prepared by bank and then he will wire Treasurer
of United States through State Department the amount of currency

-s-

122

delivered to him. Then Treasury receives this advise, payment in
corresponding amount will be made to the New York correspondent

of the Northern Bank Limited. Upon receipt and examination Treasury

reserves right to claim reimbursement for any currency which is not
genuine. Each set of halves should be forwarded w separate carrier

accompanied by a cow of the list. The third oow of list should
be forwarded by still another earrier. American consular officer

will retain fourth sow of list.
5. Consular officer should make no arrangements for insurance
as shipments of both checks and currency will be covered by Governmont Losses in Shipment Act.

6. The designation of the Northern Bank Limited, Belfast,
as a depositary of public monies of the United States is hereby
extended to carry out the procedure outlined in this telegram.
7. Please advise Northern Bank Limited, Delfast, and other
United States Government officials appropriate parts hereef.
8. To minimise number of cheeks drawn on Treasurer of United

States, suggest that you advise disbursing officers that they should
cable through their respective departments their local currency
requirements. Arrangements will then be made to advance dollar

credits to the Northern Bank Limited, Delfast."
The Department approves the foregoing. Any expense incurred in carrying

out the instructions contained in this telegram should be included in regular
accounts as separate item for billing Treasury is accordance with See. V - 45,
Foreign Service Regulations.
FD:da:4/7/42

123
BANCO CENTRALE DE RESERVA DE EL SALVADOR
REPUBLICA DE EL SALVADOR, CENTRO AMERICA

San Salvador, April 7. 1942
Refer 98/748

Federal Reserve Bank of New York
New York, U.S.A.
Dear Sirs:

The ratio of our gold reserve to our sight liabilities dropped

to 41.95% as of March 31, 1942. According to the law our gold
reserves should currently not fall below 30%

As we expect that the same circumstances responsible for the
drop in the ratio of reserves may prevail for some time entailing
a further drop, and as the balance of payments may continue in
our favor and we wish to maintain the U.S. dollar rate of exchange
at the same level, we have decided to strengthen our gold reserve
and for this purpose we should be much obliged to you if you
would kindly buy for our account 71 standard gold bars of approxi-

mately 400 fine ounces each.

We wish that this gold be held by you under earmark for our
account. Please obtain the necessary licenses.

Thanking you in advance for your cooperation in this matter.
We are, dear sirs,

Very truly yours,
Banco Centrale de Reserve de el Salvador

(sgd.) Louis Alfaro Duran,
President

(sgd.) V. Manuel Valdes,
Secretary

Received by telephone from Federal Reserve Bank of New York -

4/13/42

kma

Note: Approximately $1,000,000

/see
note

124

C

0

P

Y

DEPARTMENT OF STATE
WASHINGTON

In reply refer to

April 7. 1942

Le 740.00113 European
War 1939/334

The Secretary of State presents his compliments to the
Honorable the Secretary of the Treasury and having reference
to his communication of March 23, 1942 transmits for the in-

formation of the Secretary of the Treasury a copy of a telegram dated April 1, 1942, received from the American Legation

at Bern, Switzerland transmitting a further summary of Thai
legislation on the control of enemy persons and property.

Enclosure:

Telegram from Bern

April 1, 1942.

125
COPY

PLAIN
AS

Bern

Dated April 1, 1942.
3:33 a.m., 2nd

Rec'd

Secretary of State,
Washington.
-

1310, First.
AMERICAN INTERESTS THAILAND

Legation's 1088, March 17.
According telegram March 23 from Swiss Consul, Bangkok; date act BE 2484
is December 26, 1941 and act BE 2485 is February 13, 1942 date act BE 2485

previously incorrectly reported as December 26, 1941 correct date is February
20, 1942 and supplements BE 2485.

Delete fourth paragraph Legation's 1088, March 17 which now appears to be
summary of act BE 2484 duplicated more at length in first paragraph.

Text act BE 2485 and supplement is as follows (original in English): one
act dealing with enemy nationals and their properties BE 2485 of February 13,
1942.

Sections 1 and 2 - definitions.
Section 3, in this law "enemy nationals" means persons whom the Minister
of Interior has named and specified as enemy nationals as in the following

classes: (A) persons whose domiciles are in the territories of the country or
possessions at war with Thailand, (B) persons who are nationals of the country
and possessions at war with Thailand, (c) partnerships, associations or foundations controlled by enemy nationals.

Section 4. It is prohibited to have any connection with enemy nationals

unless permission has been received from the competent official.

Section 5. Enemy nationals are forbidden to possess firearms, explosives,
radio apparatus, secret communicating instruments and also alarm signal or code.

Section 6. The competent official shall fix the place where the enemy

nationals are to be confined or may intern them in any compound.

Section 7. With regard to the properties of the enemy nationals measures
have to be taken in accordance with the provisions of the law dealing with the
control and management of business or properties of aliens of certain categories
in time of emergency.

Section 8. Whosoever fails to comply with the provision of section 4 of
this act shall be liable to a fine not exceeding baht ten thousand or an
imprisonment not exceeding three years or both.

126
-2Section 9. Whosoever fails to comply with the provision of section 5 of
this act shall be liable to a fine not exceeding baht fifty thousand or an im-

prisonment not exceeding ten years or both.

Section 10. Enemy nationals whosoever who leave the area of the compound where

the competent officials fixed for them to stay or in which they are confined
without the permission of the competent official shall be liable to a fine not

exceeding baht five thousand or an imprisonment not exceeding two years or both.

Section 11. The Ministers of Interior and of Economics are to see that it is
carried out in accordance with this act and have also power to appoint competent
officials to carry out in accordance with this act 2 dealing with enemy nationals
and their properties number 2 BE 2485 of February 20, 1942.
Section 1 definitions.
Section 2 concerns publication.

Section 3 the following provision shall be added to the act dealing with
enemy nationals and their properties BE 2485 as section 7 supplement: properties

of enemy national whosoever who escapes from the Kingdom leaving his property
behind shall become properties of state.

HARRISON

EMB

Copy:vv:4-9-42

127

Dinnel

0

0

P

DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Y

WASHINGTON

In reply refer to

April 7. 1942

FF 102.102/568

The Secretary of State presents his compliments
to the Honorable the Secretary of the Treasury and

transmits copies of telegram no. 251, dated April 6,
1942, noon, from the American Embassy, Montevideo, for

Pehle, Treasury, from Towson, concerning proposed visit to

Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands to discuss freezing
control problems.

Enclosure:

Copies of telegram no. 251,

dated April 6, 1942, from
Montevideo.

eh:copy
4-8-42

128

Montevideo

TRB

This telegram must be
paraphrased before being
Communicated to anyone
other than a Governmental
agency. (BR)

Dated April 6, 1942
Rec'd 12:48 P.M.

Secretary of State,
Washington.

251, April 6, noon.
FOLLOWING FOR PEHLE TREASURY FROM TOWSON.

Your 471, April 4, 3 p.m.
Suggest following arrangements: on present
schedule will arrive Trinidad EVENING of April 17.
Can proceed directly to Puerto Rico arriving there

next day. This will Eliminate return visit of three
days in Caracas on present itinerary. Suggest stay
in Puerto Rico one WEE! proceeding on Sunday April 26
to Saint Thomas. LEAVE Saint Thomas May 2 for Miami

arriving Washington May 4. Would appreciate receiving

your confirmation particularly with respect to
Elimination Caracas return and proposed length of

stay in Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands before I proCEED to make new plane reservations which I will Endeavor to do here.

It would be most helpful if you could arrange
to have Peden meet ME in San Juan in order that he
may bring LIE up

129

-2-

#251, April 6, noon, from Montevideo.

may bring ME up to date on recent developments in

Spanish situation which is urgent in Puerto Rico,
possible Danish complications in Virgin Islands,
plans with respect to alien property control in each
place, data on foreign holdings in each place and other

pertinent information, with respect to all of which
I am out of touch. As I feel sure these matters will
form important topics in proposed conversations, urge

that he be sent with indicated information. HE would
also be of great assistance to ME during conferences.
Charge Treasury.
DAWSON

WSB

130

TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE April 7. 1942.
TO

Secretary Morgenthau

CONFIDENTIAL

FROM Mr. Dietrich

Registered sterling transactions of the reporting banks were as follows:
Sold to commercial concerns

£60,000

Purchased from commercial concerns

55,000

Open market sterling held at 4.03-3/4, with no reported transactions.
night.

The Canadian dollar closed at a discount of 13-1/8%, as against 13% last

In New York, closing quotations for the foreign currencies listed below

were as follows:

Argentine peso (free)

Brazilian milreis (free)

Colombian peso
Mexican peso

.2370
.0516
.5775
.2064

Venezuelan bolivar

Uruguayan peso (free)

.5295
.2815

Cuban peso

3/326 premium

There were no gold transactions consummated by us today.
The Federal Reserve Bank of New York reported that the Central Reserve Bank

of Peru shipped $169,000 in gold from Peru to the Federal for its account, disposition
unknown.
In London, spot and forward silver remained at 23-1/2d, equivalent to 42.674.
The Treasury's purchase price for foreign silver was unchanged at 35$. Handy
and Harman's settlement price for foreign silver was also unchanged at 35-1/8
We made no purchases of silver today.

131
Copy No.

13

BRITISH MOST SECRET

(U.S. SECRET)
OPTEL No. 114

Information received up to 7 A.M., 7th April, 1942.
1, NAVAL

H.M. Destroyer HAVOCK ran aground on the sixth on the North East

Coast of TUNISIA. As it was impossible to refloat her, she was destroyed. A Dutch
tanker has been torpedoed and sunk when on passage to CURACAO. A British merchant
vessel reported being shelled by an enemy submarine off COLOMBO on the sixth.
2g MILITARY

BURMA. IRRAWADDY Front: During 3rd and 4th enemy aircraft continued
dive bombing and machine gunning our troops and transport causing about one hundred

fatal casualties in one brigade. During night 3rd/4th a further withdrawal was
made without any enemy ground interference. Demolitions have been carried out
successfully in the THAYETMAYO area.
3. AIR OPERATIONS

HESTERN FRONT. 5th/6th. 178 tons of H.E. and 67 tons of incendiaries were dropped on COLOGNE and the area. Several large fires were started but
generally observation was prevented by cloud. At HAVRE eighteen tons were dropped
and bombs were seen to burst across the docks. At GENNEVILLIERS where nineteen tons

were dropped, good fires were reported as a result of the attack on the Gnome-Rhone

Factory. Two of our aircraft crashed, not three. A Wellington destroyed one enemy
night fighter. 21 R.C.A.F., 21 R.A.A.F. and 12 New Zealand aircraft took part. Two
New Zealand aircraft were among those lost.

6th/7th. 157 aircraft were sent to attack ESSEN. Preliminary reports indicate that operations were severely hampered by storms. Five aircraft are
missing.

MALTA. 5th/6th and 6th. Attacks by a total of nineteen aircraft
caused no damage.

132

CONFIDENTIAL

ENCLOSURES

COPY No.

(Classification)

(For Reened Section only)

MILITARY INTELLIGENCE DIVISION. (Britism
W. D..G.
S.
Empire)

N.Y. Office, M.I.S.

MILITARY ATTACHE ********* REPORT

I.G.No.

N. Y. Office, (Brief title)
descriptive

M.I.S.

XXXX

Report No.

degree

and

3531

April 7, 1942
British subject, employed as medical officer

From M. A.
Sours

(Country reported on)

Material for Strategic Survey

Subject

by

Bahroin Island

reliability

of

Date

the Bahroin Petrolous Co. In the middle fifties, of moderate
Considered reliable.

intelligence.

SUMMARY.-Here enter careful summary of report, containing substance succinctly stated; include
important facts, names, places, dates, etc.

Water approaches. Possibility of air-borne invasion.
Nature of soil. Climate. lister supply. Road not-work. Loading
and unloading oil terminals. Air-field on island of Uuhar rap.

Hospitals. Prevalent diseases.

Population pro-British. Activity of German spice.
Oil production.
Resources,

LH:deR

Distribution by originator

Routing space below for use in M. I. D. The section indicating the distribution will place a check mark in

the

lower part of the recipients' box in case one copy only is to go to him, or will indicate the number of copies
in case more than one should be sent. The message center of the Intelligence Branch will draw a circle around
the box of the recipient to which the particular copy is to go.
GHQ

G-1

G-3

0-4

QNI

OFFICE

State

Comm

F.B.I.

Treas

A W.C.

C.A G.
8.8.

Ind.Coll

Export
Control

3
1

0-2
A C.of

Chief I in

MA See.

FL Sec.

Rec Bee

Trans.

G-2

CIB

Sec.

2

880 Sec

BE

CR

EE

BE

WE

Def.

Coord

LA

Inf.

Sec.

Dtr.

Trun

1

All

Coord.

FR

SIL

LA

Cost.

Disease

Field

Masion

ABW

USW

ASWA

Med.

Engr.

Fin.

Pers.

+

1

CHIEFS OF ARMS AND SERVICES
Cav.

Attachi at

FA

CG PMIL

CAC

AO

CO Pas

CG Haw

2'

Siz

Armd.

Ord.

QM

ows
2

Int

fid. of

Econ. Tarf. (1)

CONFIDENTIAL

Enclosures:

WAR DEPARTMENT

(Classification)

- GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

CONFEDENTIAL
Source arrived in New York on March 22nd, 1942, having

flown from Bahrein, where he has resided for the last five years.
Shallow water and numerous roofs render the approach to

Bahroin by sea, from all directions, relatively hasardous. There
are no port facilition at Manama, and ships have to anchor several
miles off-shore in an open and unprotected roadstead. An air-force
invasion would present loss difficulties than a sea-borne invasion,

for in addition to the air-field on the island of Muharrap, there are

many places on the island where emergency landings oan be made. This

is particularly true in the southern part of the island, where there

are patches of smooth and hard sand.

The highest point of the island is some 125 ft. above sea-level.

The nature of the soil is rocky (limestone) in the center of the
island, and sandy is the low-lying ooastal areas.

During the four winter months the climate of bahrein is
temperate. The hot weather starts in May and lasts until the end of
October. The average temperature during those months varies between
108 and 110, with a maximum of 118 degrees Fahrenheit. Humidity is

very high, in spite of the low annual rainfall of 2 inches. The
"wet months" are November and March.

The water supply comes from artesian wolls, often drilled

to a depth of 200 foot. Although the water is salty, it is usually
safe.

The oil fields are situated in the center of the island.
The wells are connected with each other, with the company's camp,
refinery and terminals on the East and Tiest coasts, and with the
town of Manaza, by a good net-work of roads, constructed and maintained
by the company.

The londing terminal, which is used by tankers, is at Sitra
small island near the northern extremity of the East coast. The
tankers are moored to a lightly constructed, isolated dock off shore
where six pipe-lines from the storage tanks have their terminals.
At Zelong, on the Rest coast, is the unloading terminal for
the barges which transport the crude oil from the Arabian mainland.

On account of roefs, navigation between Bahrein and the mainland is
dangerous, and the oil-laden bargos have formerly used a roundabout

route. Shortly before source's departure, a now obarnel, which will

reduce the haul very considerably, was discovered and was being marked
with buoys.

On the island of Kuharrap, which is connected with Bahrein

by a causeway, is situated a good natural air-field. The soil is hard
sand. The field is used as . base by planes flying to and from India.
There are no hangars, but sheds for repair work and for the storage
of spare parts have been erected. Buildings, sufficient to accomodate of
1000 mon, are in the course of construction. Plans for the defense
Bahroin, which will be based on Muharrap, have been elaborated. At
present, the only air defenses consist of a half-battery of obsolete

anti-aircraft artillery.

East of the causeway connecting the two islands in a relatively
sheltered stretch of water, is the sea-plane anchorage.
The Bahroin Patroleum Co. has built and equipped a modern,

air-conditioned, 20-bed hospital. It has on hand an 18 months supply
of quinine.
The American Mission Hospital, which is organised primarily
the natives, could in 0880 of need Rocomodato about 10 Europeans.
for Its rooms and words, which are not air-conditioned, are provided

CONFIDENTIAL
-2-

CONFIDENTIAL

133

with
electric
The
hospital is under the direction of a very able
American
doctorfans.
named
Harrison.
The Bahrein Government Hospital for nativos is nearing
completion, when terminated, it could accomodate a for European patients.

In addition to the foregoing, there is the Queen Victoria
Hospital,
which is merely a small dispensary run by a cuarantine
doctor.
prevalent in the island and amoebic dysentory
is commonMalaria
among is
thewidely
natives.
The population, except for about 300 Europeans, most of whee
are employed by the petroleum company, numbers about 95000. They are

all Johnsmocans. They are for the most part pro-British, although .
Nationalist
has been recently organized, and succeeded in bringing
about a fewParty
strikes.
German spies are active. A few months ago there WAS a dinturbance in Manama, the nows of which first reached the company's GREEN
a for miles away through the Berlin evening broadcast.

The Bahrein daily crude oil production is approximately

20.000 barrels the capacity of the refinery, which was completed in

1957, is about 30,000 barrels a day.

Outside of dates in season, and fish the whole year round,
there are no resources on the island, which depends entirely on imports.
In the past, these came principally from India; they are now beginning
to come from South Africa.

FREDERICK D. SHARP,

Lieut. Col., G.S.C.

CONFIDENTIAL
-3-

134
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT

COORDINATOR OF INFORMATION
WASHINGTON, D.C.
UP

SECRET
April 7, 1942
The Honorable

The Secretary of the Treasury
Washington, D. C.
Dear Henry:

The attached has just come to us from our

London office. It is the Ministry of Economic Warfare
weekly propaganda digest.

Sincerely,

Bill

William J. Donovan

135

SECRET

"1. Included among German inspired economic measures
to Nazify Europe are:

(a) Ukraine: A system has been imposed that resembles

the French revolutionary assignats, new currency will be
issued by the new central bank of issue at Rovno; this currency will be called karbovanetz and will be valued at one
tenth of a reicho mark, backed by mortgage on real estate;

(b) Latvia: To place entire economic life under
Nazi control, a new credit institute Gemeinschaftsbank Ostland has been established;
(c) Former Russian-Poland: Germans have imposed

complete Nazi financial control with foreign exchange legislation;

(d) France: There is a system of exemptions from

excess profits tax which favors collaborationist enterprises.
"2. In order to increase the food supply for the
cities, German agricultural labor will be reapportioned in
relationship to the size of farms and intensity of culture.
Despite the increase of farm labor by more than one million
five hundred thousand prisoners of war and foreigners whose

will is not in their work. The Germans are having difficulties
with Spanish workers, and they hesitate before the risks of
using "undependable" Russians.

"3. Italy:
a. Because of a desperate need for nickel,
Italy has withdrawn twenty centesimo coins after having already withdrawn fifty centesimo and one and two lire coins.
b. Ordered that all motor vehicles manufactured
before 1930 be confiscated;
C. Obtained one hundred thousand tons of rye
from Germany after agreeing to return an equivalent amount
of wheat after the harvest.

"4. The cut of German meat, bread and fat rations,
effective April 6th, brings meat and bread down to 1914-18
war level at 10 to 14 ounces of meat weekly and 71 to 80

ounces of bread weekly. However, the fat at 7 to 9 ounces
per week is much higher than the 2 ounces weekly alloted
during the last war.

136
TREASURY DEPARTMENT

2

INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE April 7, 1942

Secretary Morgenthau

TO

Mr. Kamarck

FROM

Subject:

Monthly Report: Royal Air Force Bombing Activity
in March, 1942

1. Bombing activity of the R.A.F. flared up in March, after

the relatively quiet early winter months. Two notable raids
occurred in this month: the attack on Paris and the one on the
Baltic port of Lubeck. The attack on the Renault plant in Paris

exceeded the German bombings of London in tonnage of bombs

dropped, a cargo of 477 tons being unloaded by the British.
2. Reports from Sweden indicate that the R.A.F. descent in

force upon Lubeck, a city which is seldom bombed, achieved notable

results. The following description of the raid, based on confidential British sources, might be of interest:
The attack on Lubeck occurred on Tuesday night and early

Wednesday morning, March 28/29. 205 bombers, including 46 heavy

four-motor bombers, took part. The sky was clear, with a bright

moon and no cloud. The arrival and departure of bombers over
Lubeck took place on schedule, like trains passing through a
large terminal. The bombers cruised over the town at varying
heights, from 1,300 to 17,000 feet.
After the first bombs and incendiaries were dropped, the
center of the town blazed up. Some of the later bombers were
guided to the target by the fire seen from 100 miles away.
Towards the end of the raid, the island center of the town was
blazing like one large fire. A machine tool factory was definitely
seen to have been flattened out and two other large factories were
at least badly damaged.

A total of 163 tons of high explosives, with 146 tone of
incendiaries, were dropped, 1.e., a rain of well over 100,000
single incendiary bombs. Included in the high explosives were
17 two-ton super-bombs. Very little anti-aircraft was experlenced, but a large number of fighters were sent up. Twelve
bombers were lost in the operation.

137

-I. Losses

Losses during
March

Total Losses in raids
to April 1,1942

R.A.F. bomber losses

in bombing raids in

II. Analysis of Targets

1,501

62

Northern Europe

Attacks during
March

Ports,docks, shipping

Industrial plants

Airdromes and seaplane bases

1,533

11

917

880

011 refineries, synthetic

III. Leading Cities Attacked

to April 1,1942

16

9

plants and tank farms
Total of above

Total Number of attacks

359

1

3,689

37

Attacks during
March

Total Number of attacks

to April 1, 1942

A. Germany

Cologne (industrial center)

Bremen (port)
Hamburg (port)
Emden (port)

Wilhelmshaven (port)

Kiel (port)
Mannheim (industrial center)

Berlin (industrial center)

Essen (industrial center)
Gelsenkirchen (synthetic oil)
Hanover (synthetic oil)

2

97

0

87
85

o

72

1

61

O

58

1

57

o

50

o

46
3

o

43

o

42

Total of above (11 cities)

698
7

B. Occupied Areas
Boulogne (port)

Brest (port)

Ostend (port)

Calais (port)
Flushing (port)
Lorient (port)

120
107
102

1

0

2

Turin (industrial center)
Total of above (2 cities)

63

0

52

0

Total of above (6 cities)
C. Italy
Naples (port)

79

o

523

3

24
0

13

o

0

37

138
April 8, 1942
MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY'S DIARY

Senator Truman and Messrs. Foley and Cairns were

in the Secretary's Office at 8:45 a.m. today. The Secretary
handed to Senator Truman the attached questionnaire for

dollar-a-year and W.O.C. men. Senator Truman said that his
Committee had been working along the same lines and he thought

the Secretary, in his questionnaire, "had something". The
Secretary explained he thought it was essential that the boys
in the Army and Navy should remain convinced that there was
no crookedness in the Government and that the people in
Washington were not becoming enriched. Senator Truman said

he agreed with him fully.
The Secretary said that Senator Truman could have

the questionnaire for what it was worth and that he had not
shown it to anyone. Senator Truman said he would be happy

to have the Secretary as a partner, but the Secretary replied
that so far it was his own personal idea and that the Senator
should take the questionnaire for his own purposes.

Attachment.

Huntington Girms

139
Date

1. Name (print)
2.

(First name)

a. Post Office address
b. Legal address

(Street)
(Street)

C. Business address

3.

(Street)

(Middle name)

(Last name)

(City)

(State)

(City)

(State)

(City)

(State)

If citizenship
Are you a citisen of the United States?
was acquired by naturalisation, marriage, or through parent, give

particulars, including place, date, and court of naturalisation pro-

ceedings of self, spouse, or parent.

4.

Place of birth

5.

Date of birth

6.

Father's name

Place of father's birth
Mother's maiden name

Place of mother's birth
Place of spouse's birth
Wife's maiden name

7. Height

Height

Color of hair

Color of eyes

8. Have you ever made any change or alteration in your name either with

or without legal proceedings? If so, explain in detail

140

-9. Indicate below your sex and marital condition by check, thus
MARITAL CONDITION

SEX

: Single $ Married : Divorced: : Widowed

Male : Female

10. Are you in good health?

11. Explain fully any physical defects or infirmities you may have

12.

EDUCATION
TO

(Year)

(Year)

:

FROM

NAME AND LOCATION

DID YOU
GRADUATE?

Elementary

High school
College

Degree obtained

Business school

Other training
1

13. State briefly experience, techniques, aptitudes, or skills which you
believe qualify you for Federal employment.

14. Military and naval record. If any, check ( to indicate branch and
other information and give dates of enlistment and discharge.
:

Marine : Const

War

Veterans
Bureau

:

None Army : Navy Corps : Guard Veteran Pensioner :tbeneficiary

141
3Enlisted

Enlisted

Discharged

Discharged

Organisation

Organisation

15. Have you registered under the Selective Service Act?

What is your classification?

There?

16. Have you ever been indicted for, or found guilty by any court of, any
crime, either misdemeanor or felony?
2

17. Has any corporation of which you are or have been an officer or director
been indicted during the last ten years for violation of Federal law?

If 80, state the offense, charged, and the title, place, date, and result

of the proceedings.

18. Have any civil suits or proceedings been filed by you or against you during

If so, state cause, disposition, place,

the past ten years ?

date, and court or tribunal

19. Have you ever been adjudicated a bankrupt, taken advantage of state
insolvency laws, or made an assignment for benefit of creditors?

If so, give date, place, title of proceedings, and other particulars.

20. Are there any outstanding judgments against you?

If so, give

details

21. If you are a professional man, have you ever been disbarred, had your
license suspended or revoked, or been cited for or charged with unethical
practices?

If so, furnish dates, places, and complete details.

22. Names of relatives in the Government Service and where employed

142

-423.

Give names, addresses, occupations, and relationships of relatives
residing outside the United States.

24. Have you used intoxicants to excess or narcotics at any time during the
past two years?

25. Are you now, or have you been during the past five years, a member of
any Communist or German Bund organisation or any political party or
organisation which advocates the overthron of our constitutional form of
government in the United States, or do you have membership in, or any

affiliation with, any group, association, or organisation which advocates,

or lends support to any organisation or movement advocating the overthrow
of our constitutional form of government in the United States?
If so, name the organisation

26, Give name and address of present employer

27. Position held

Approximate average salary for
last three years (including bonuses and other remuneration)

28. How long have you been employed by your present employer?

29. If you are in business or practice for yourself, what is the nature
thereof?

Place

Name under

which business or practice is conducted

30. Net income from such business or practice during last three years

31. Do you plan to sever, before accepting a position with the Federal
Government or its agencies, all connection with your present employer,

business, or practice? If not, state details of

any understanding, arrangements, or agreements, including those with
respect to compensation during Federal service and with respect to reemployment after termination of Federal service

143

-5 32.

that sources of income, other than from employment or business or
practice given above, did you have during the last three years?

33. List below all employment, or business, or practice, other than present,
during past ten years.

Period

Name of employer

business, or practice

Position

Place

34. Have you ever been dismissed or forced to resign for cause from any

If so, explain in detail

employment or office?

35. List all public offices or employment (Federal, State, or local) held by
you during the past ten years.
Period

Office

Place

36. List, with addresses, all corporations or companies in which you are, or
have been during the past ten years, a director, trustee, or officer, or
in which you hold or have held a similar position. Give position.

144
6-

37.

List all directorships, trusteeships, offices, or similar positions
presently held in any corporation or company by spouse, brothers, and
sisters, parents, and children.

38. List, with addresses, all partnerships of which you are a member

general or special. List partners in each partnership.

39. List name and address of all corporations of which you are the sole

stockholder or in which you hold or control a controlling interest.

40. Attach list of all property (foreign or domestic) in the following
categories presently held by you or in which you have a beneficial

interest.

a. Stocks, bonds, and other securities.
b. Accounts (other than ordinary trade accounts) and notes receivable.
C. Deposits in banks or other deposit institutions (name banks and
institutions).
Real estate (other than living quarters for self and dependents)
and give location thereof.

d.

0. Mortgages.

f. Surrender value of insurance policies (name insurance companies).
R. Patents and copyrights.
h. Mining and oil claims.
1. Stooks or inventories of materials in which the Government might be

interested in the war effort.

1. Ships or vessels.
k. Cash over $10,000.

41. Do same for your wife and children.

42. Attach list of all creditors, with addresses, and amount of debt (do
not include ordinary charge accounts and personal debts of $5,000 or
less).

43. Do same for your wife and children.

145

44.

Have you filed Federal income tax returns during the past five years?
Give collector's office and year for each return.

45. Give name and address of all associations, institutes, and organisations

(fraternal, trade, labor, industrial, or otherwise, but not political

or religious) of which you are, or have been during the past ten years,
a member. Indicate those which have any foreign affiliations.

46. If you have been an officer of such association, etc., give office and
date thereof.

47. List all your writings which have been published. Give title of
publication, date thereof, journal in which it appeared, and any other
details that would aid in finding or identifying it. If you have been
employed as a regular writer for a publication or journal, give only
name thereof and period of such employment.

48. List all reported speeches and addresses giving time and place made

and any other details which would aid in finding or identifying them.

49. Are you, or have you ever been, registered as a foreign agent or
representative?

146

-850. Are you registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission?
51.

Give names of all Government Departments or agencies with which you are
registered or are enrolled.

52. To your knowledge, have you ever been investigated by any Federal agency
or Congressional Committee?

53. Have you ever appeared before a committee of the United States Senate
If so, give date and
or House of Representatives?
name of committee and subject on which you appeared

54. If you have made any trips abroad during the past ten years, give
countries visited, dates, and purpose of each trip.

55. Have you during the past ten years rendered any services for any foreign
If so, give
government or foreign corporation or company?
date, nature of services, and for whom rendered

56. List all business transactions, in which you have personally had a part,
with any foreign concern during the past ten years by (a) you, (b) your
business, (c) your employer, or (d) any corporation or company of which
you are, or have been, an officer, director, or substantial stockholder.

57. Have you ever received any award or other mark of merit or distinction
from any foreign government or concern?

If so, give details.

147
9-

58.

Is your business, your present employer, or any company or corporation

of which you are an officer, director, or substantial stockholder, a
contractor with, or a supplier to, the United States or any of its
agencies, or a subcontractor with, or supplier to, any such contractor?
Are you personally such a contractor, supplier,
or subcontractor, or interested in such contracts?
If so, list such contracts with all pertinent information.

59. List persons, firms, corporations, or companies which to your knowledge
are now contracting, or negotiating for a contract, with the United
States or its agencies and for which you have been agent, attorney, or
representative since June 30, 1940.

60. List corporations, companies, and persons with whom you have entered

into contracts in excess of $10,000 during the past three years. Also
list contracts.

61. List corporations, companies, and persons with whom your business or
the concern by which you are or were employed has made contracts in
excess of $100,000 during the past three years, and with which contracts
you have personally been concerned. (Omit those listed under No. 58.)

62. State here any facts which you think might be possibly construed by

others to have some influence on your official activity to the prejudice

of the United States or its agencies. For example, give any circumstances
under which a corporation in which you are substantially interested might
be under obligations to a person or corporation with whom you would probably

deal in your official capacity.

148
- 10 63. Do you agree to be subject to the same supervision and direction as
regular salaried officers, to observe established policies and rules
governing attendance on duty and absence from duty, as required by your
impediate superiors, and to be governed by the provisiona of law regulating the conduct of Federal employees generally?

64. Are you acquainted with the so-called Hatch clean politics acts and other
Federal prohibitions against political activity by Federal officers and
employees?

65. Do you understand that while serving as a Government official all actions
taken by you must be in the public interest and not in the conflicting

interest of any individual, partnership, corporation, trust, association,
company or firm, and that it is your duty to report to your superior
officer any official transaction in which you might, by reason of your
official position, have any conflicting interest, no matter how slight?

(This certificate must be sworn to before
an officer authorised generally to administer oaths.)
I,

being first duly sworn do

,

certify, depose, and say that all the above statements, answers, and
attachments are true and correct to the best of my knowledge and
belief.

(Signature)
Subscribed and sworn to before me
at

this

day of

, 194 .

(Signature and title of officer
administering oath)

149

April 8, 1942
9:15 a.m.

INFLATION

Present: Mr. Bell

Mr. Cairns

Mr. Gaston'
Mr. Colm-

Mr. Leland
Mr. White
Mr. Blough

Mr. Sullivan
Mr. Haas

Mr. Paul

Mr. Jones

Mr. Currie
Mr. Foley*
Mr. Hansen'

Mr. Landis

Mr. Henderson

Mr. Galbraith
Mr. Gilbert

H.M.JR: Leon, last week when we had this meeting,

we all said our piece and so I haven't had--

MR. HENDERSON: Is that p-i-e-c-e or p-e-a-c-e?

H.M.JR: Unfortunately, p-i-e-c-e. Inasmuch as this
is - the problem has at least three corners, if not more,
you
occupying one, I would like very much to hear your
side.
MR. HENDERSON: Well, I will put it this way. We

started in with the choice of the type of price control

150

-2legislation. Some things seemed rather academic, but

of any
have
aswould
an the

very forcefully academic. That is, they were the

we on control have
probably started things that the administrator, price professor legislation atmosphere accepted, wouldn't in which but types

stirred his stumps to take action about. They were, I
would say, a recognition that price control, in and of
itself, could not control a war economy and probably

would have big difficulty in controlling a defense

economy, say, one that ran perhaps twenty-five to thirtyfive percent diversion of productive energies to defense
preparations. We set out, as you know, that there was

need for appropriate tax legislation, that there was a
necessity for a control over the distribution of scarce

goods, and that there was a need for a savings program and

controls over the expansion of credit at least and probably

a
direction
toward a diminution of credit, particularly
that
of consumers.
I don't believe that - I believe as I say with what

seemed then an academic recital than even the people who

had the most pessimistic outlook as to what would be
available for consumers envisaged what the actual physi-

cal supply situation is sure to be this year and what it

is planned to be for next year.

For the first time since I have been connected with
one of the defense organizations, we have had to think in
terms of shrinkage of the war production program. I don't

know whether you realize what that means.

H.M.JR: Expand on that.
MR. HENDERSON: We were pressing an internal group

for a faster and larger program, as you know, having taken
part in it. When we got an acceptance of the program in
terms of, say, the bench marks of sixty thousand planes,
forty-five thousand tanks, and seven million tons of
shipping, things like that, and you apply your tables of

conversion to those, as the Army and Navy have been doing,

your program runs beyond what it is either possible for
the economy to afford in this current calendar year or
what it is physically possible by even the strongest of

151

-3efforts of transforming the civilian economy to war-time
production to make. At the program
last estimate the -

message on old tables of
year's President's that is, out-payments ammunition and for the the filling conversion, out this the

everything else, would run up-

wards of sixty-five billion dollars, with one quarter

already gone and total out-payments not much over seven

billion. I mean, it is an impossibility of making fiftyeight billion dollars worth of goods in nine months.

Now, the 1943 program would contemplate, at the

price level as of the beginning of this year, seventyfive billion dollars. I don't know, our estimates probably
would say not more than a hundred and twenty billion dollars, Dick, as a total for next year's production, considering the bottlenecks. This seventy-five billion

dollars is without the pay and - oh, some of the goods and

food and things like that which will run another ten bil-

lion dollars. That is, an impossibility in any terms of

what we see the productive capacity is. But the lesson

of that to me is this: We are finding quite a bit of

energizing is taking place in the production program, as
you can see with the index rising and the income rising,
but at every point where there is this pressure now to
roll back some of the war program, the choice will always
be made, can't we get that out of the civilian economy.
Now, we are down on steel, for example, to less
steel for purely consumer purposes than we had in 1932.

We are down, and we are being pressed to find some out

of that to go forward with a rail program. Now, within

not more, I would say, than ninety days, more probably
within sixty days, consumers durable goods will be almost
completely out. That is, we have made no provision so
far for anything beyond repair and maintenance items.
That is, we have made no provision even by a consolida-

tion into one plant or a limited number of plants for a

continuance of the making of even a small amount of con-

sumer durables. Part of that is by choice. My own

feeling has been that if a company does not have any

civilian orders that the accrual of pressure toward getting
war contracts will be heavier, and I think that the evidence supports that. I feel that this is the time to make

152

-4the cut if we are going to get into a total program.

What really the civilian has got to do, the civilian

community has got to come back in and talk about its
elemental needs, and then we build whatever our concentrated
out
of that.industrial consumer durable goods program is

Now, that may be a harsh approach, but we now have
a Requirements Committee which is operating fairly

effectively on the major raw materials, and every pressure, the pressure of carrying out the Russian protocol,
for example, the pressure for any speed up in bombers,

the pressure for this synthetic rubber program, the
pressure for the - what the President wants of another
million tons of shipping, and probably what we ought to
have is two million tons, all of that focuses now on the
limited amount that we have available for civilian purposes.
(Mr. Paul left the conference.)
Now, with that in mind, we have programmed, I would
say, about five weeks ago that we would go as far on the

price front as our law, stretched to its fullest, would
let us go. It was about six weeks ago. We have been

busy, and we are ready now at any time and expect to go

when the signal is given, with what amounts not just to
a retail price freeze but a complete price stop with
exemptions which are really minor. We expect to utilize
the law as it was passed to make a price stop.
H.M.JR: Does it bother you for me to ask you a

question?

MR. HENDERSON: Oh, no.

H.M.JR: Does that include agriculture prices?
MR. HENDERSON: As far as we can go with them, yes.

Now, the ones - you went over the list finally last

night.

MR. GALBRAITH: The exemptions are relatively minor

when you come right down to it, Mr. Secretary. We excluded,

153

-5for reasons of Section 3 of the Act a hundred and ten
provision, on the--

H.M.JR: Is that your Act?
MR. GALBRAITH: Yes. Only butter, cheese, evaporated

milk, poultry products, which we would primarily have to
exclude anyway for seasonal reasons, dried beans, and a

few - sour cherries and so forth. We also do exclude

feeds, feed grains being the major commodities which are

below the standards of the Act, below parity. It will

be necessary to find some other means to hold them stable

in order to maintain a fixed price on, for example, fluid
milk. That is, Section 3 of the Act, in other words, is
not
disturbing as far as the generality of the move is
concerned.

H.M.JR: I don't want to take up - I just want to
ask one other question which isn't clear. This price
thing, at what level - either the farm or factory or
retail-MR. HENDERSON: At all levels. As I say, it is not

a retail price freeze, althought our job will be similar

to what the job of the Canadians has been, maintaining that

consumer or cost-of-living line as rigid and intact as we

can and working back through wholesale prices and pro-

duction with every available means; but this, in effect,
is equivalent to, I would say, the German price stop of
'36, and certainly it is equivalent to what Canada has
done, as I think their open ends-MR. GALBRAITH: They are very much the same.

MR. HENDERSON: Now on the rationing front, on these

consumer durable goods, I expect it is apparent, with

this supply above ground, we have the choice every day,
do we allow the ordinary channels of business and so forth

to do the rationing on account of the fact that it is a

disappearance item, or do we take complete control, and
on most of them we are just letting them go out through

the system and keeping the price as near to what it
normally has been. But we anticipate that each month for

154
-6

for the next several months we will have some major program

of rationing affecting the cost of living.

(Mr. Paul returned to the conference.)

That is, we have got the gasoline. We probably will have
shoes by June or July. We will have some clothing at least

in the early fall and probably fats and oils in July. The

whole fats and oil question, as it relates to consumer

consumption, is probably the toughest one to handle on a

rationing basis on account of the fact that there are

eighteen hundred of them and many of them are interchangeable.

The sources of them and the interchangeability of them for
industrial purposes and war purposes as such. But we have

the feeling that we can handle satisfactorily with the

organizational structure about one major program a month

now. The printing itself is one of the big deterrents
on it.

Now, independent of that, or tied to it, I will put
it that way, I think that we face an inflationary gap that

is going to press on us tremendously just the same, and I
feel that we have passed the place of what I call the
academic consideration, the recognition of the varieties

of it and the agreement of principles, and if we don't take
hold now, we will almost surely lose control. All the
reports that we get in from the consumer end, the retail

end, indicate that even with what we do we are going to
have tremendous pressure on the markets, particularly for
these tail-ends of these consumer durable goods. Now,

what that will do to the general market, I don't know.

We have arranged for an organizational structure clear
down, a Federal system, clear down into the rationing
boards. We are going to convert the rationing boards, some
nine thousand in number, to price and rationing boards if
we get the money out of Harold Smith, and that is the
reason I was late, trying to persuade some of his boys
that we really needed it, and with an executive in each
of the boards, what a state administrative set-up and

a regional set-up above that with policy direction here.

Now, we can make that kind of an administrative set-up

155
-7

fast enough to take care of, say, a May 1 date for

are
to
do
that.
I
feeling a about criticism

place away from labor

price while little stop. I We sensitive have been equipped that and may Government has be taken our

officials. I would say that anybody who can do it any
faster, I would be glad to have written applications.
Now, on the other front, you probably know the

position I took about wages. I took that position with
a clear realization of what it meant, what it seemed to
imply, but with the one single cold fact, that is, there

was no possible way that we saw of lifting the volume of
goods available to consumers and that it meant, except
for readjustments that take place by equity reasons,
particularly those in the low income groups, that it meant
nothing but a changing of the price tags and that meant

just shere inflation. I have taken that position and I

stay with it.

H.M.JR: Your position on a ceiling on wages, what
is it?
MR. HENDERSON: My position is that we should have

no general increase in wages, that we should have a what amounts to a freeze at this level with the exception
of wages under forty cents an hour, and that we should make

our plans, together with the rationing, for maintenance of
a standard of living for the substandard groups, not only
on wages but the fixed income groups or people who derive
their income from other sources.

H.M.JR: Leon, I wondered if some of these people
didn't want to ask you some questions about your own
responsibility.
MR. HENDERSON: All right.

H.M.JR: Does anybody want to ask Henderson about

what he said about rationing and his plans and so forth?
MR. WHITE: What proportion of the total expenditure
on consumer goods do you anticipate, roughly, that you will

156

-8have
let us
say, October
of howby,
much
coverage
that is?1? Do you have some idea
MR. HENDERSON: Only the roughest estimate. I don't

think it would be more than fifteen to twenty percent.
You mean all the cost of living items?
MR. WHITE: Yes.
MR. HENDERSON: Including rent?

MR. WHITE: No, exclusive of rent.
MR. HENDERSON: On rent, as I say, we expect to get

a coverage of about ninety million out of our existing
law, but on the items at retail somewhere between fifteen
and twenty percent by October 1.

MR. GASTON: How is that, Leon, with respect to the
goods that we should expect actual shortages to develop
in?
MR. HENDERSON: I would say that our present plan

does not call for rationing of the remainderings of the

consumer durable goods production. That is, assuming you

have got twenty-five million refrigerators and you have a

stock now of six hundred thousand. We do not propose to do
with them as we have done with automobiles, that is, locked
those up and put them out, because our contemplation is now

of a victory model of refrigerator when we actually have

to make replacements and have that in a concentrated produc-

tion.

Now, where there is some acute item, of which there

will not only be a shortage but a nullity, we may take
over the rationing of that scarce commodity.

MR. LANDIS: Your price stop will cover rents?
MR. HENDERSON: We have in contemplation at the time
when the President gives the go-ahead announcements which

will cover the rents in communities having about ninety

157

-9million population. You see, Jim, we are limited now to
a defense area; but, because of the diffusion of war
production, we can get most of the populace centers and
that would be - would mean that we would get a price
stop on that within sixty days.
MR. CURRIE: On the wage ceiling, Leon, is it not
true that there has been no wage advance of a general

nature since last March?

MR. HENDERSON: You mean wage rate?

MR. CURRIE: Wage rates.

MR. HENDERSON: Dick knows that much better than I;

but, as I recall, we have been having a general rise in
the wage rates particularly in the defense or war production--

MR. CURRIE: Isn't that largely attributable to the

increase of wage income due to the increased employment

and higher wage industries and longer hours, but as I

have been told--

MR. HENDERSON: No, what you get - now, what we have

been greatly disturbed about, Lauch, is the operation of
these - what do they call them, area-MR. GALBRAITH: Area agreements?

MR. HENDERSON: No, not area agreements--

MR. LELAND: Collective bargaining agreements?

MR. HENDERSON: No, wait a minute. Is it the Bacon-

Davis Act?

MR. GASTON: Prevailing wage?

MR. HENDERSON: The prevailing wage. Lauch, you would

find that the prevailing wage rate has been on an escalator
basis. It has not generally affected the war production -

158
- 10 I mean the total wage rate because of the fact that we
have only had a relatively small percentage in war work;
but, if that particular provision stays intact, most of
your unions are able to negotiate an increase in the
rate, actual hourly rate by that provision. As you move
toward ten million employed on war industries, it becomes
a very decisive factor.

MR. CURRIE: What I was trying to get at is this:
if you can avoid a general increase in wage rates through
voluntary means rather than compulsory, that would be

desirable, I should say; and, if it is true, as I say,

that there has been a remarkable restraint in that field
last year, that labor - organized labor has given up the
right to strike, has agreed to abide by the War Labor
Board's decision, I should think you are pretty well protected with these things, particularly if you can get a
further voluntary agreement on the wage rate.

MR. HENDERSON: But the whole purpose in asking

for the dollar a day of the War Labor Board was admittedly

for raising the whole level of wage rates. That was the
purpose of it, and it was for that reason that we have
resisted it.

MR. CURRIE: But if you could get this thing voluntarily, you would prefer it to compulsory, wouldn't you?
MR. HENDERSON: Well, what do you get voluntarily?

You get voluntarily a coverage, yes, of important in-

dustries, but not a complete coverage. It is the

same way we have had a very, very swell response from

retailers as to the averaging of their cost of inventory
and their retail prices, but you can't hold the dike;

and you wouldn't be in my mind - maybe I have gone to-

talitarian, Lauch, but I don't see any way in which you
can hold this flood by the voluntary method, particularly as

other elements.

MR. GALBRAITH: Lauch, do you mean by voluntary, non-

statutory measures?

MR. HENDERSON: Or agreement?

159
- 11 -

MR. CURRIE: Well, it is partly voluntary and partly
the right to strike, they give up the main weapon for
advancement of wage rates. If, in addition, they abide
by the decisions of the Labor Board and if they refrain
compulsory, I would say, Ken. When labor has foresworn

from asking for a general over-all advance, the main
things you are worrying about, it seems to me, is not

going to prevent the wage ceiling, that is the increase
in labor income due to increased employment and longer
hours.
You are going to let that be.
MR. GALBRAITH: I think, so far as going to Congress
for maximum wage legislation, statutory authority, that

there is no difference of opinion. I suppose the dif-

ference of opinion turns on the strength of the executive
declaration asking for no more wage advances, if there is
a difference of opinion.
MR. HENDERSON: I resisted, as you know, all along

the inclusion of wage control under the price control,
and our position is consistent with what we are taking
now. I would not like to see Congressional wage control.
I would like to see it as an executive policy which was
pending on all the agencies and that you get the greatest
amount of participation and cooperation from your labor

groups, but I think unless you get that that the pressure
will always be for what they call an adjustment to the
cost of living.
Well, now, in terms of what is available of the

real goods, there cannot be that adjustment and make

forty-two billion dollars worth of war goods this year

out of--

MR. CURRIE: I think you have your price ceiling
plus the extension of rationing, and you don't get that

pressure, do you?

MR. HENDERSON: Well, if you had a completely closed

and controlled system, you probably wouldn't.

MR. WHITE: Isn't your device for obtaining from

160

- 12 labor a share in the reduction of the standards of

living which is called for by the reduction in

goods
the
regular
namely,
taxes
you
have
every
of
the and to
cost and to of be savings, share obtained living down that through expect labor hope channels, to holding take consumers' an

increasing of that sacrifice
by not after
letting
following
a with

the of living is I

rates rise increase in the concomitantly cost something really lag wage

don't think you believe there. I mean, you yourself

hope to keep down the cost of living through the various

are some -

devices; but, notwithstanding that, it is necessary to

reduce consumption of consumers' goods, and you are going
to take other methods to accomplish that, measures which

reasonable designed schedule presumably
to with
reasonablewe
on some
spread that
sacrifice,
ought

to
call it, over the population in some progressive form or
in some way which will fall less on those less able to
bear it, but you have already got an agency to accomplish
that, so I don't think you would want to advance the
argument in favor of fixing wage rate ceilings, that you

want to have labor curtail consumption power.

MR. HENDERSON: Well, I certainly do, Harry, because

I think that the gap is so large.

MR. WHITE: Well, Leon, if the gap is large, let's
tackle it in the reasonable way. After all-MR. HENDERSON: My point may be - you talk about
a reasonable way, Harry--

MR. WHITE: Well, I mean--

MR. HENDERSON; I am more jittery about it than you
are because I sit there every day and make the recommenda-

tions for just taking the physical goods out of production

entirely.

MR. WHITE: I don't-MR. HENDERSON: And I think the - I think if you had
to listen to the ping pong manufacturers and the pin ball
manufacturers and the copper manufacturers, all these people

161

- 13 who actually make these goods, and know what a drying up

there
going to be, you would favor a complete program
at
thisistime.
MR. WHITE: Well, Leon, I know we have the same

objectives, that is why there is some purpose in arguing.
If we didn't, there wouldn't be any. The necessity to
reduce the purchase of those commodities, I think there is
complete agreement on. I think that you feel the most
impact on that, but you are closest to the Maginot Line.
And yet, isn't the way to attack that problem the way you
have always held, is through taxes or voluntary savings
or forced savings or some scheme, because when you arrange
a program of that character, you pay some attention to the
reasonable basis for the reductions. When you permit, on
the other hand, the rise in the prices with the lag in wage
rates to be the vehicle through which you force a reduced
consumption, you know it is very unfair. Now, if we were
unable to accomplish it through any other channels, then
I would agree with you fully that we have to go to the
next, though less desirable, means. Are you convinced
that it is impossible to attack it through other channels?
MR. HENDERSON: Yes, and to get the control that is
implicit.

MR. WHITE: Well, I don't see that, because if what
you are after is a curtailment of purchasing power and that
is what you are driving for when you say you want wages to
lag behind prices, what you mean is they won't have enough
money to command real goods. Isn't that right? Now,
we have other vehicles for accomplishing that purpose right
at hand. We may not have gone far enough, and I think that

we might want to push to go further, but certainly that is

the vehicle to go because when we use that instrumentality,
we certainly can be reasonable and fair.
MR. HENDERSON: Let's make it specific. I favor
the President telling the War Labor Board that as a matter
of national policy they should not authorize wage rate
increases, such as the dollar a day.

Now, do I understand that you don't favor that?

162
- 14 MR. WHITE: Well, I think what the President

the no increase in rates

should communicate to his various agencies,
they are

the you spoke of, unless they result in

should War adjustments be Labor permitted Board, unless is that necessary wage including to make

increased production, except in certain industries
where it may be necessary to offer additional inducements in order to get additional work, and finally

unless it is necessary to be adjusted to cost of living.
I don't mean identically, but somewhere along the line.

Now, if you accompanied that labor philosophy, which can

be carried out at his instructions without any legislation and without any Administrative order, if you follow
that with a successful keeping down of the cost of living to some small percentage, then I think you have

handled the labor situation satisfactorily, and you

tackle the necessity to reduce consumption through the
usual channels, namely, increase in taxes and increase

in savings. If it isn't voluntarily forthcoming in

adequate quantities, you force it, and I think you have

an adequate control.

MR. HENDERSON: Dick wants to talk.

MR. GILBERT: I think it is important to keep the

facts in mind in this discussion. I don't think Harry
is. The facts are that real hourly earnings, hourly
earnings corrected for the cost of living, are precisely

today where they were a year ago, real hourly earnings
are unchanged. The real weekly earnings are up twelve

percent. Up to this time labor has taken no cut, twice
the reverses. Its position is immensely superior to
what it was a year ago. Now, the proposition is that from
this time forward, this year there is to be a twelve
percent cut in the amount of goods available to the
entire nation. Labor simply cannot maintain its real
standard of living without imposing upon other groups

in the community a cut in their standards of living

beyond the twelve percent which must be the average for

the nation. It is a basic point.

163

- 15 MR. HENDERSON: It is not only that, but what
you would have - you wouldn't get a uniform adjustment upward of wages. You would get the strategic
bargain groups and the strong-powered groups who

would be getting it at the expense of other groups
that are not able to make their wage increase.
MR. GILBERT: And the second point I think Harry
has neglected is, what is the magnitude of the increase
in purchasing power that will result from the increase
in wages? We have done a very careful job in trying

to calculate that, and we calculate that it will mean
seven billion dollars this year, the difference between

freezing wages and permitting them to go up as they

have been going up. That will mean seven billions of
dollars. Now, Mr. Secretary, you have got to devise

programs to take up an awful lot of money. What we have
been discussing these past few days and weeks, has been

an increase of the program to yield six billion dollars,

and that would be enough if you had wage freezing. If
you don't have a wage freeze, you have got to get
thirteen billions more, an additional seven over and

above the six. Now, I say as a practical matter, you

just cannot devise fiscal and other means to sop up
purchasing power as rapidly as it is now being generated,
and we have got to recognize that fact. It doesn't make
any sense to break our backs finding new techniques for pulling
purchasing power out of the market when we don't close
off this clear avenue through which the funds are pouring
out.

H.M.JR: Could I go back a minute to your (Henderson's)
board that you are going to set up, which you hope to get
the money for? This is your problem, and nobody can

answer this but you. Is it impractical - let's say that

you are successful on the first of May or whatever date
the President and you decide to set a ceiling on prices.

You have got these nine thousand boards, appeal boards

and all that sort of thing, I suppose, and while - the
other thing is done but still within your responsibility

I mean you can't go further than rationing and doing the

164
- 16 -

thing that you described? You spoke about getting one
thing a month or one in two months or something.
MR. HENDERSON: I said one group.

H.M.JR: Year can't move faster on that front?
MR. HENDERSON: Can't move much faster. But

what
is the argument for taking a complete regimentation of expenditure?
H.M.JR: Argument for?
MR. HENDERSON: Yes.

H.M.JR: Well, I am not arguing for anything. I

am just asking for information.

MR. HENDERSON: Here there will be a number of

goods in which there will be a plenty for those who
choose to exercise that choice.

H.M.JR: Well, let's take soap, for example. You
fix the price of soap.
MR. HENDERSON: We will fix the price and we will

probably have to fix - we will probably have to ration
soap before the year is out.

(Mr. Smith and Mr. Sullivan left the conference.)

H.M.JR: What I am getting at, you fix the price,

and then you don't ration soap. I mean, your problem
irrespective of what anybody else does to keep the price
of soap down; if there is not enough supply of soap,
people
isn't it?begin to compete, it is very much more difficult,
MR. HENDERSON Yes, but what makes it difficult,

what makes it particularly difficult, is that excess

of purchasing power in the possession of people who as
we know have been short on goods for a long time, and it

165

- 17 -

is the breaking of the - that is what I think would
break any of our controls.

H.M.JR: I agree with you.
MR. HENDERSON: And that is the reason why I favor
SO strongly mopping up at the source this purchasing

power.

H.M.JR: I agree with you, but I-MR. HENDERSON: I think my point is this.

H.M.JR: Can I just say this? Supposing the people

working for Mr. Roosevelt could devise a scheme of mop-

ping up a great deal of what we call the gap of eleven

billion or fifteen billion, whatever it is, the job of

doing that, if it was done simultaneously with rationing,
both things would be a greater success than if you did

one without the other, that is the thing.
MR. HENDERSON: Oh, yes.

H.M.JR: I mean, if you moved on both fronts, using
soap as an example. I know just enough about it not to

discuss it in detail, but to get down - I mean, with the

money in the people's pockets - and let's say a family

uses two cakes of soap a week, and there is only a cake

and a half to go around, and they are going to bid for
that soap, it makes your job that much more difficult
no matter how successful the people may be in trying to
sop up the excess earnings.

MR. HENDERSON: What I would put--

H.M.JR: I wonder if we can't move more on the two
fronts, Leon, not rely solely on the people to mop up
the excess money, or we rely solely on you for rationing,
but try to move together.
MR. HENDERSON: I will put it this way. What I was

saying to Harry, I am probably more jittery than he is,

166
- 18 I have been through, as you haven't been, this increase

in farm prices and felt the power of the farm bloc. I

have been through the increase in the labor income and

seen what it has done. I have been seeing and anticipate more acutely what is likely to happen because of
the enormousness of the gap. That is, a very greatly
reduced volume of goods with a tremendous increased
volume of purchasing power with the prospect that if
something Isn't done we get five to seven billion dollars
more just from rates alone, regardless of what - as
Lauch points out, the increase that you get because
people are moving up to a higher wage rate because the

industry calls for that rate. My jitteryness comes
to this. I think that with everything that we can do,

as far as we can get with taxation and with saving,
compulsory and voluntary, as far as we can get with
rationing, as far as we can get with price control,
that there will still be enough leakage so that we

will have managerial problems.

In other words, I am in favor of hitting on all
fronts, and not only that, but I think you have got to

have a unified program on profits, on the farm, wages,

cost of living, and rationing, and rents, and everything
else in order to get a complete acceptance here.

I think maybe my difference is one of seeing the
leakages. You check up on priorities. Out of about

three thousand firms I think close to fifty percent of

them were shown to have violated in some way the prior-

ity regulation. We are paying dearly for that leakage
now. I think we will have leakage on price and on
rationing, and I don't see - I think the whole program

will break down unless there is a tremendous amount of
money taken from the source; and also unless a program
comprehends taking away the excess profit, stopping the
wage, except for the adjustments necessary, and hitting

the farmer, preventing this lock up that they are trying

167
- 19 to make with the commodities, on all fronts, and I

think even then we have got a magnitude of a gap in
my opinion that no country has really had to face without
several years of preparation.

MR. HAAS: Leon, may I ask you a question? I
believe as you do, and the Secretary does, that we
have to move on all fronts, and then you have got a

very difficult job on your hands, but the case you
point out for it is very rapid conversion over a large
sector of the economy. It seems to me to indicate
that you will have to move more rapidly on the rationing front than you are now indicating it is possible
to move.

I don't know whether it is possible to move more

rapidly or not unless you change your rationing schemes,

but I think it can't be helped by fiscal devices for

this reason, that the fiscal devices become less effec-

tive as you get this tight situation, as you point out;

because as you pull the purchasing power out, it is

like lifting bucketfuls of water out of a spring. You
get liquidation of other assets. You don't get a net
reduction. So that the only device to handle the problem that is confronting this country now with this very
huge conversion seems to me one of much more rapid

extension of the rationing.

I think the other thing has itsplace, but rationing has to go more rapidly because the fiscal devices
will not be effective. You have got all this--

- 20 -

168

MR. HENDERSON: I will say I don't think you and

I have got any quarrel on that. My only plea is to
go as far as we can make go.

I we are anyway on the

make think the fiscal the better device off matter of it

financing war, but that is something else, again.

MR. HAAS: Well, we discussed the technique of rationing and so forth, but you start discussing the technique
of how to absorb purchasing power, make net reductions

in expenditure by the fiscal devices, then you have
got some really difficult problems and they become

more difficult as this pressure, that you indicate,

increases; and it seems to me that you have got several
devices here, but as the pressure increases more the

rationing thing has to get more in the forefront as
the only device that can handle the thing. It has to

be, of course, accompanied by the other device.

MR. HENDERSON: I don't say that is the only device.
Your rationing device breaks down, George--

MR. HAAS: I don't believe in doing one and none
of the other, but you have to put more emphasis on the
rationing device as your pressure gets tighter, because

you get liquidation of the other assets, you don't get
a net reduction in expenditures.

MR. HENDERSON: That is right.

MR. HAAS: And I think, Leon, the figure you gave

to Harry of how far you can move, I think if you don't

move faster than that, and we are moving on all fronts,

that the situation will get out of control.

MR. HENDERSON: Do you mean, George, that we ought

to take over the control of a supply that is not short?
MR. HAAS: Well, I am not advocating which type of
rationing to use, but I think you have to get a more
complete - a larger percentage of the expenditures under
control than fifteen percent by the date you indicated.
MR. HENDERSON: Well, if we get rent and gasoline

- 21 -

169

and
certain elements of clothing, all of the tight items
disappear.
MR. HAAS: That would be more than fifteen percent.
MR. HENDERSON: You asked me by October 1.

MR. GASTON: That answers the question, doesn't it?

If you take care of the tight items--

MR. WHITE: No, I don't think it does, because Leon,
you would recognize at once that all items are tight at
the price you want to freeze them, that is the trouble,
and the more you ration, the greater your segment of
rationing, the tighter becomes the non-rationed items
because of the released purchasing power which, in part,

tends to concentrate on them so that all items are short
according to the general plan that you outlined at the
beginning. They are short at the price that you want to
keep them at. They are not short from the point of view
that you can probably get all you want if you want to pay
enough money.

MR. GALBRAITH: Harry, with all of the administrative
complexities that are involved, would you advocate a rationing program for electric toasters?

MR. WHITE: Well, I think the point at issue on the
cleavage, and I don t think there is any difference of

opinion, is merely that you have to proceed with the
rationing of items very, very rapidly, because you are

dealing with a situation in which everything is in short
supply from the price point of view, which is the point
of view on which you are tackling it.
Now, which shall be the items - which fronts you
shall move on first, you know better than I.
MR. GALBRAITH: It is not a question of moving first.
It is a question of whether to move at all or not. We can
set up three categories of commodities for purposes of
discussion. One of them, the first, is items which are not

- 22 -

170

going to be short in supply, tobacco, for example.
MR. WHITE: You mean, they are not going to rise

in price?

MR. GALBRAITH: There is not going to be any difficulty
maintaining the supply of Chesterfield cigarettes at fifteen
cents (M package or whatever the current price is.
MR. WHITE: In other words, an adequate supply will
be forthcoming at present prices?
MR. WHITE: Then you are no longer interested in that.
MR. GALBRAITH: That is right. Next we have commodities

of continuing rising prices which are vital, gasoline,
fats and oil, sugar. Clearly, we have a problem or rationing those. We are not arguing about those. But the conversion is striking at consumer durables primarily. Now,
to be sure, we are rationing automobiles. We.are rationing
automobiles primarily when it comes right down to it, because they have four rubber tires on them. That is the

only reason we are rationing automobiles, if you want to come

right to it.

H.M.JR: You don't want to say that.
MR. GALBRAITH: That is right.

H.M.JR: You want the capacity of automobile plants.
MR. HENDERSON: No, the rationing of what is already

made, Mr. Secretary.

H.M.JR: But you want the plants.
MR. GALBRAITH: The reason is that there are four
new tires on the car.

H.M.JR: But you are not talking about the automobile

- 23 -

171

plants.

MR. HENDERSON: No, we are talking about the cars

already made.

H.M.JR: O.K.

MR. GALBRAITH: Now, for the rest of consumers goods

they are the type of electric toasters. They are not
articles of universal consumption. They are not articles
which have to be sold to Mrs. "X" today in order to
enable her to keep her family fed and housed and clothed.

I am just putting this question. Would you seriously
contend that a rationing program with all it involves
should be set up for each of those scores upon scores

upon scores of items?

(Mr. Sullivan returned to the conference.)
MR. WHITE: Well, Ken, you have answered the question

in the kind of case you have stated, but I don't think

that is the kind of case that is at point. The issue
simply is that there will be increasing pressure for all
items, most items. So, there will be an adequate supply
and the price won't rise, like cigarettes. So the price
will rise but the amount of consumption will so vary that
it doesn't lend itself to rationing. Now, there is a
wide area of commodities in which, if you had time, you
would want to move in, one after the other. You would

be far from the total even after a couple of years. Not

on the sole point that George is making. The point we
are all making is that you have to go forward in that
area very rapidly. What you include would depend upon
the particular commodity in your duties as to what lends

itself most easily to rationing, and what benefits most

by rationing, but certainly you would have more than the
half dozen commodities you have suggested.

MR. HENDERSON: Oh, yes. I said groups of items.

I didn't want to leave the impression that I didn't feel

we would increase our coverage. I was talking about what
we could frankly see between now and October 1.

- 24 -

172

MR. HAAS: One of the main points I wanted to

you you

make
is, as you get a tight situation, the fiscal
mopping, up becomes less and less

ofassets.
has
demand
securities
don has all
t sold getthese
The net Treasury reductions,
effective, get liquidation
because
out,
savings
bonds,
and
the

means, as gets tighter and

rationing system, so you
prevent spending, the strong situation is the only tighter, effective when to
make
up a case for rationing, it seems to

that you
makerapid
- you extension
have to make
a strong
case
a very
-Ia
case
for
conversion,
to
make
a
case
simultaneously the for simultaneously rapid for rapid mean, strong strong me
a extension of rationing because

as far as I know that is the only effective way of
handling that situation, and I am not advocating that
you don't move on the other fronts, but all you can do
on the other fronts would not stop it. The only effective
way it could be handled is by extensive rationing. Do
you agree with that, Leon?
MR. HENDERSON: Oh, I agree on the matter of equitable
distribution,
yes.

H.M.JR: Well, I would just like to say for myself,

that what Henderson has said this morning is - I don't
know that he was ready to move as far as he says he is
ready to move this month.

MR. HENDERSON: Maybe I ought to say in self defense -

it is unusual for me to be on the defensive, but I-H.M.JR: Is that the South American way?

MR. HENDERSON: This is while I was away in South

America, put it that way. But we have had this in our
contemplation. We did not emphasize it while we were

getting our price law, that we had started on an original
set up, as far as price administration was concerned,

and had many weeks ago - well, we had determined when we

got the law as soon as we could accomplish our re-organization,
and meet our statutory terms that we would go forward very

- 25 -

173

boldly with our program, and five weeks ago, seeing the
rest of this coming, we had determined that about the
middle of April we would get almost a complete retail
price stop and we have gone further than that since we

find that you can't distinguish your retail prices and

expect to have a complete stop. The point I would like
to make, is that this is not something that was thunk

up over night.

H.M.JR: Well, what I was going to say was simply

this. In view of what you said this morning, I want to

re-examine our own problem again. In other words, I
want another twenty-four or forty-eight hours to reexamine the whole problem because this is terribly important,

and I would like time to think about it.

MR. LANDIS: May I ask a few questions on Mr.
Henderson's program? Your price controls will not only

go down on retail prices, but on other price levels as
well. Now, the exemptions that you have on section
three, those are statutory exemptions, and you are not
creating any more?

MR. HENDERSON: Yes. In fact, we are straining as

far as we can go.

MR. GALBRAITH: I didn't quite get Jim's question.
Are we creating any additional exemptions? Yes, but

they are trivial. Auction sales and--

MR. HENDERSON: I thought you meant on the agricultural end.

MR. LANDIS: There is where my question was, along

the agricultural front. There your statutory exemptions
go to retail prices of specified commodities, but you
can't even touch the retail prices of others, and then
they go also to agricultural commodities where you can
touch the retail angle. Does that worry you very much?

MR. GALBRAITH: Well, I will give you a reference to

- 26 -

174

one of the members of your staff, Mr. McLaughlin, who
has become an expert on agricultural commodities vis-a-vis

section three of the act. The exclusions under section
three, under the McLaughlin construction of section three,
if I may say so, are of two sorts. They are commodities,
of which butter is one, that we cannot come to grips with
at any point. At the other extreme is cotton, which is
a cent or so from the levels established in the act, but

where we have wide margins, very wide margins between the

price of cotton, say, and the price of a shirt, we are
going to make the argument that that margin is wide

enough so that the price of cotton can go up, as it can,

without affecting the retail price. We are going to

make that same argument as far as bread is concerned. That
comes within a very small group of commodities, not fixed

at retail, which is, after all, what we are after. The
group that I listed to the Secretary at the beginning is
the group which cannot be touched anywhere. In addition
to that we are not fixing fresh fruits and vegetables
for reasons, I suppose, that are obvious.

MR. LANDIS: That group doesn't worry me as far as

I see it, the group where you can't touch the product

at all. I don't think the pressure on that group is

likely to bring a general price increase. Are you worried
at all about the pressure from the group where you can

only fix the retail price and not the price of the nonprocessed article, but instead of rolling back where it

will come up so tough against the retailer that you are
going to get a break in your general price level?

MR. GALBRAITH: The answer is yes, Jim, we are
worried, but the commodity, the only important commodity,
the key commodity in that group, is wheat, bread, where

fortunately, we have a promise of - we have the largest
supplies on record and we are going to have even larger
supplies next year. We are going to have a carry-over

of fantastic proportions. It is going to have to be part
of this over-all measure, and this measure has been discussed with the Department of Agriculture to stop this

business of tying up the wheat stocks, that is very important, which

and, secondly, to maintain a surplus disposal program

- 27 -

175

would also maintain maintain the price of wheat. That, incidentally,

will the stability in the price of feeds

which
should
cause the same effect as far as dairy
products
is concerned.

MR. LANDIS: I mean, that is the point I am a little

worried
about
the application
apart from
any in
other
pressures. of your own scheme,

MR. GALBRAITH:
We have been doing a good deal of brain
sweating
on that problem.

H.M.JR: Any other questions?

MR. PAUL: I would like to get to another phase of
the discussion if you have time, and that is the constituency of the other end apart from the wage situation,
what should we try to do by way of fiscal controls?
H.M.JR: Well, in view of the discussions taking
place here this morning I would like time to re-examine
our own problem, if you don't mind.

MR. HENDERSON: We haven't discussed to any great

length, and I don't know how much the group has, some-

thing that I consider absolutely vital, and that is that

program touched on all the elements which are straining

this problem now. I think it - I can't see how you can

get a wide acceptance of one or another. We found out
this. We checked the people on the Administration side
who voted with the farm block despite the greatest of
pressure. There is the President and Barkley and Jimmie
Byrnes. We threw everybody into the breach to try to
lick the things that they put on us. When you got down

to the heart of hearts of the fellows who were not -

the Cotton Ed Smiths or the Bankheads, they said, "I
know just as well as I am sitting here that wages are

not going to be restrained and that profits are not
going to be restrained, and this is the only equitable
way they can see to give the farmer a break." Now,

when we got down, as I say, to the group that would have

- 28 -

176

swung, that you ordinarily look to, the Administration
looks to, that was uniformly, and we got that from
many checking angles, it was the most enlightening
experience, Hill-wise, - that I have gone through. When

they got down to it, it was because they felt that the

other elements in the community were going to get an
increasing rate, and the only way the farmers could keep

pace would be to leave their hands relatively free.
much.

H.M.JR: If there is nothing else, thank you all very

177
April 8, 1942
2:18 p.m.

HMJr:

Hello. Hello.

Operator:

He'll be on in just a moment.

HMJr:

Hello.

Operator:

Here he is, Mr. Secretary.

Vice

President
Wallace:

Hello.

HMJr:

Hello, Henry.

W:

I had a swell conference with the Bose this

morning.
HMJr:
W:

HMJr:
W:

oh, did you?

A swell conference. Harold and Leon and
Eccles were there immediately following,
and the Boss asked me to stay over for that.
I see.

And I judge what it gets around to is a speech

he wants to make on April 27.
HMJr:
W:

I see.

As to just what's to be in that speech, and he
suggested the four of us get together with you
and Sam Rosenman and work on that speech.

HMJr:
W:

Good.

Now, I expect you better - you'll be seeing him
tomorrow?

HMJr:
W:

Yes.

The directives were not too clear. Maybe the
other boys know more about it than I do, but
it's obvious that he wants to stop the increase

in the cost of living.

178
2HMJr:
W:

Yeah.

So that we're supposed to get something together

any taxi driver will understand.

HMJr:
W:

For when?

April 27.

HMJr:

I together? see. Well, when do you think we should get
W:

Well, I told Harold when we got through to
I suppose it depends on when Sam's in town - told Harold to let me know and I would do the I it would be okay with me; I thought I could

fit it in most any time.

HMJr:

Yeah.
I think Rosenman's here on Friday's and
Saturday' 8.

W:

I suspect that's what determines it.

HMJr:

Yeah.

W:

Well,
you called me - oh, I called you, didn't
I.

HMJr:

Yes.

W:

Well, this is what I wanted to tell you.

HMJr:

(Laughs) How'd you get along on your own thing

on the
W:

HMJr:
W:

Say, oh, just marvelously.
Did you ask for those things?

I think it's all right. It's a combination

outcome, that I think is perfectly satisfactory.

HMJr:

And you're happy about it?

W:

I'm happy.

HMJr:

Well, that's good. And you didn't - well, you

179

-3didn't get from the President what direction

he wants this speech to go.
W:

HMJr:

I think he wants compulsory - he wants com-

pulsory savings in, I think.

Yeah. And

I - (Laughs) - I asked whether he wanted - he

says - referring to sales tax - "Mustn't use sales taxes
I mustn't
use. That's a naughty
word.
Use 'excise
taxes'"
HMJr:

Yeah.

Then later when I tried to get it a little more

definite what he wanted in the speech later on,
I said, "Do you want compulsory savings in?"

HMJr:

Yeah.

He said, "Yes." I said, "Do you want excise

taxes?" And he started talking about something
else, so I don't know whether he does or not.
(Laughs)

HMJr:

Well, who does he want that - I didn't quite
hear you say who he wanted to work on it. It
was Smith

W:

The six of us, I take it.

HMJr:

I see.

Leon, Harold, Eccles, you, Sam Rosenman, and
myself.

HMJr:
W:

I see. I see. Well, I
I got into this thing in a purely accidental
fashion. It was just the sequence of appoint-

ments.
HMJr:

Well, I think it's very fortunate. Well, I'm

glad you did well on that other business - on
the Economic Warfare - because I think that's
terribly important.

180

-4W:

HMJr:

W:

The fine. - it'11 be - I think the thing's coming
Good.

And what it's going to work around to then is,
I think, rather frequent meetings of the Board,
which I felt were desirable for some time, but
until
he had
any use
in it.made up his own mind, I didn't see

HMJr:

Right.

W:

But now that he's made up his mind - he'll have

HMJr:

a meeting, I take it, and will make things clear.
Yeah. I tell you, the way I've been thinking
today on this forced savings, and see how this

hits you. I was thinking of putting this up to

the President tomorrow. Why not get the authority
to, let's say, have forced savings anywhere from

W:

HMJr:

one up to fifteen per cent.
Say, that's a pretty good thought.
And then start it with, say, one per cent in

order to get the machinery going; and then say
to us, "Well, now, go ahead and see what you
can do."

W:

You've got a good combination thought there, I
think, Henry.

HMJr:

And if you can't do it by July, Henry, then"to me - "then

HMJr:
W:

HMJr:

W:

That sounds swell.
"

W:

then we'll do the other."

Sounds swell.

But get the authority to do not five per cent,
but to do between one up to fifteen.
I think you've got something, Henry

181

-5HMJr:

W:

HMJr:

W:

HMJr:

W:

HMJr:

W:

HMJr:

W:

What?

I think you've got something.
Because five might not be enough.
Yeah. Yeah.

It - and then again it
That's the question mark I've had right along.
And then again, supposing he slaps on .....

I thought - can you do it variably?
Oh, yes.

I mean - no, I mean, when I say variably, at

one - can you have one rate with one group and
another rate with another group?
HMJr:
W:

No, that isn't what I meant.
Yeah, I know what you mean, but I wondered if

you couldn't do it

HMJr:

Oh, you could do it by income groups, yes.
by income groups.

W:

HMJr:

Oh, yes.

W:

It's worth thinking about, although I don't

know which way you 11 load it.
HMJr:

And I wouldn't object then going down as low
as they wanted to go

W:

Yes.

HMJr:

on that. I mean, if you let the $500
fellow - if you had some savings for him,
fine. He's the fellow that needs it the most.

W:

Yeah.

182

-6HMJr:

W:

HMJr:
W:

HMJr:

W:

HMJr:

But don't lower the income tax brackets on

that, then, and get it through forced savings.
Well,
where. I think you're beginning to get someHow does that strike you?
Sounds good.

Well,
that's what I was going to suggest to
him
tomorrow.
I think you've got something.

I think that - do you think that would be the

answer?
W:

Sounds good to me.

HMJr:

Okay.

W:

Well, I'11 be seeing you, I suppose, sometime

the latter part of this week then.

HMJr:

Yes. Right.

W:

Fine.

HMJr:

Thank you.

183

April 8, 1942
2:35 p.m.

INFLATION

Present: Mr. Gaston

Mr. Sullivan

Mr. Paul
Mr. Graves
Mr. Kuhn

Mr. Blough

Mr. Haas

Mr. Foley

Mr. Bell

Mr. White

H.M.JR: Well, I will go backward and give you

the dirt first. This is a Treasury party. I find

I have more than two friends. I didn't think I had
any friends, but I find I have got one. The Vice
President just called me up, very pleased, and he

asked my advice on Economic Warfare. He saw the
President, and got what he wants.
MR. WHITE: Good.

H.M.JR: He just wanted to let me know. So he
said, "I thought you would like to know, Henry, what
happened this morning." If He said, "I was over to see
the President with Harold Smith. We had a very fine
meeting." He said, "They followed me with Harold
Smith, Marriner Eccles and Leon Henderson to talk to

the President on cost of living. So the President
said to me, 'Well, you had better stay, Henry, as long
as you are here. You had better sit in on this.

Don't you love this? It is a wonderful city, isn't it?
MR. BELL: What time was this, after your meeting?

184

-2H.M.JR: Yes.

MR. WHITE:
Did they know they were going there?
I suppose
so.

MR. BELL: It was all prearranged.

MR. SULLIVAN: Harold left here at ten o'clock.
H.M.JR: Don't you think, Randolph, that the
lawyers
inhere
Newa York
have
been
while?are really a nice crowd after you
MR. PAUL: These fellows are not all lawyers.

Some of them are bankers. (Laughter)
H.M.JR: Bankers?

MR. PAUL: Marriner is a banker.
MR. BELL: No.
MR. FOLEY: No?

MR. BELL: No. (Laughter)

H.M.JR: Well, I always say when you are doing a

tax bill you have got to sleep on the floor so a fellow
can't put a knife in your back. Well, I gathered that
they tried to press the President as to the sales tax,

and he said, "Can't you call it by some other name?"
Wallace said he pressed him and couldn't get anything.
But the upshot of the meeting was that the President
appointed a committee of six to work with Sam Rosenman

for a speech to be given on the 27th of April, the committee to be composed of the Vice President, as he said,
by accident because he happened to be there, and myself,
Harold Smith, Marriner Eccles, and Leon Henderson, and

Judge Rosenman. The only thing to do is to laugh about
these things. Well, I had Donald Nelson for lunch, and

he read my memorandum, and I tried out on him the plan

which I think is the answer from the Treasury standpoint

185

-3as far as savings go, and I want to try it out on you
people. Nelson was very enthusiastic. That is this,
that I say to the President, "Now look, Mr. President
I think that with the help of OCD and ourselves that
we could reach a billion dollars a month of "E"
bonds by July, but it is a thing, and I can't guarantee
it. Therefore, as the Treasury is as much interested
in inflation as anybody else, if you will read that
speech I gave in Boston on September 7, my suggestion,

Mr. President, is that we put into the statute a law

which would permit you to have forced savings anywhere

from one to fifteen percent, because you don't know
how much you need, and starting with one percent get
the machinery oiled up, and telling us to go ahead and
do the very best we can, and telling the public that

if the thing goes well we won't put in forced savings;
but if they fall down on the job and don't get enough

money, we will, and the advantage of having it from

one to fifteen, if they ask for five, five may not be

enough. On the other hand, you might want to run it
up to ten; and after you have had it there for six
months, you might want to drop it. You don't know."
Now I tried this out this morning on White, and I tried
tried it out on Nelson at lunch, and Nelson was very

enthusiastic about it. That is the answer. he said.

He said, "Unless you can guarantee the billion, which

I don't see how you can, I think it is a mistake for you
to assume that responsibility." He likes the volunteer
plan. He would like to see -go ahead and put on a big

campaign with OCD.

He would like to see us do it. When the Vice President
got through, he said to me, "Henry, the President is for
forced savings." Then I tried this out on him, and he
said, "Well, that is the best suggestion I have heard yet.
That answers all arguments. He said, "That is better,

and I don't think five persent is enough. Now, to go
a step further, I would say to the President, "Now, I
don't care how much down the line you go on forced saving. You can start at two hundred dollars, if you want
to, I don't care. You can start at any level that you

want to, but don't do anything on sales tax, don't do

186

-4anything about lowering the exemptions, and don't do

anything on the tax bill. Leave it alone. Now, I

am having supper alone tonight with Leon; and for
some of you who may not understand the signals I sent

you, I didn't want Leon to get started on the tax

bill and commit himself before twenty people, and then

find he couldn't withdraw his position tonight after
I

had a chance at him alone. I hope you understand

what I did.

MR. PAUL: No, I thought you had some motive.
it

H.M.JR: And I wrote Leon a note. I said, "If

is just the same to you, keep off the Treasury's
problems, and wait until we get together tonight.'

You could see that is what Leon did, and I checked
with Nelson. Nelson said, "I know what Leon is going

to do." I said, "Do you?" I told him. He said, "No,

I didn't know this. I have been seeing him every day,
and he didn't tell me about this." Leon made up his
mind about that during the night. My guess is, coming
to this meeting this morning late and rushing to the
Bureau of the Budget, in getting ready to come to this
meeting this morning - Donald Nelson said, "I see him
every day, and Leon didn't tell me anything- about this,"
so to get ready for this meeting - because Leon stayed
behind and said, "God, I never went to bed last night,
I have been working all night through.'
MR. WHITE: Well, you remember what his Lieutenant

said at your first meeting. He said they hoped to get
this in eighteen months. So, apparently, he at that
time wasn't fully cognizant of 1t.
H.M.JR: I think Leon made up his mind during the

night, and I don t think Gilbert was with him. I don't
think he worked with him.

MR. BELL: He made it appear as though his mind
had been made up for six weeks.

H.M.JR: Well, he started to apologize, saying, "I
don't like to apologize, but I had this all made up.

187

-5 But, Don Nelson who had been with him didn't know it

until I told him today, and he lunched with him on
Monday. Well, starting with Bell, what do you think-MR. BELL: It is quite a crowd around town.
H.M.JR: They say the English should trust us, and 2
we should trust the English. All they have got to do is
see how we trust each other. Why don't you tell MacLeish
to start a little morale program amongst the people that
work for Roosevelt? (Laughter)

MR. WHITE: He would have a hard time finding out
who is working for him.

H.M.JR: Well, starting with Dan, we will go around

the room. What do you think?

MR. BELL: Well, I suppose it is the best you can

do. It isn't a bad idea. Apparently we are all alone
on this thing.

H.M.JR: It happens to be mine, and my corns are
not tender. This happens to be my own idea.

MR. BELL: I think there is one part of this program
on which they have given in to you, and that is forced
savings, and I think possibly there are some people in
the Treasury feel like forced savings.
H.M.JR: Have you smelled out a few?

MR. BELL: Well, I think there is some feeling around
here that forced savings is in the picture, and I think
it is a good compromise.
H.M.JR: Roy?

MR. BLOUGH: If the Congress will give the President

that power, which I doubt, I think it is excellent.
H.M.JR: Ed?

188

-6-

MR. FOLEY: I like it. Is this tied up with the

bonds, forced saving, or would it be forced savings

generally?

H.M.JR: My suggestion is that you would have the
President and myself have the authority to apply to the
pay rolls, earnings of the country, anywhere from one
up to fifteen percent.
MR. FOLEY: And give them bonds?

H.M.JR: A piece of paper.
MR. GASTON: It would have to be a new security.
It couldn't be a redeemable security.

H.M.JR: Give them some kind of piece of paper

which would be payable after the war. Most likely it

would be non-interest-bearing, a piece of paper payable
sometime after the war.

MR. BELL: It kills your voluntary plan when you
start that.
H.M.JR: Not necessarily. If you say one percent

and you hold it there, and if we get to a billion dollars

a month and get our quota, we will leave it one percent,
which would be a club over their heads. This would be
the coercion.

MR. BELL: Well, it might work that way, but I

mean that whenever you start on your percentage, then
you kill Harold's program.

H.M.JR: That is right. That is what I tell every-

body, and they won't believe me, but I tell that to
everybody.

MR. WHITE: I don't believe that.

MR. SULLIVAN: Well, don't you kill it before that?

189
7-

MR. GASTON: You are speaking about two different

things. It will kill Harold's program in the form in
which it is now set up. He will have to devise a different
kind ofway.
a program addressed to different groups
in a different
MR. WHITE: That will make it a better program.
MR. SULLIVAN: Can't you do both things, Mr.

Secretary? I take it that you and a lot of other people

here have been anxious to let this go ahead and develop
its own momentum for two or three months more and see

how much we can get. Now, it seems to me that if this
is announced, the minute this is announced, and certainly
the minute the statute goes on the books, it is going to
cut into your receipts from voluntary savings very, very
substantially. Now, I am wondering if you can't accom-

plish both objectives by letting this thing ride in the

House and then putting it on in the Senate. If you can
do that, you will have had this time so that the program,

unharmed by this impending movement, will be able to

prove what it can do.

H.M.JR: The reason that your suggestion isn't acceptable to the President is, he wants to make a speech on
the twenty-seventh of April where he is going to say
everything he has got in his mind.

MR. SULLIVAN: And insists on including this with it?
H.M.JR: Wallace told me the President is for forced
savings. Wallace is for forced saving.
MR. FOLEY: I think we have got to come to it sooner
or
that.later. I see no reason why we shouldn't recognize
MR. WHITE: It seems to me--

H.M.JR: Just a second, Harry. Go ahead Randolph.

MR. PAUL: I think the flexibility devolved in
it is very ingenuous. I take it that at whatever stage

190

-8the bill is in on April 27, it would be necessary then
to bring the matter up in the regular legislative process

and the end of it would be that there would be no com-

plication of the tax bill except the intrusion of forced
savings. I am for that. I think that part of it won't
unduly complicate things. It may require further hearings, but that will only be a delaying factor. I think

we can show reasons why - reasons for an extension of
our front, and that was one reason for our embarrassment.

The budget figures are up, and so on. So I think it is
a good idea. I am awfully glad to get the sales tax out
of the way.

H.M.JR: You haven't got it out of the way.
MR. PAUL: Well, I think we are helped a great deal
by the President's statement.
H.M.JR: Well, today he told Wallace he wanted it

by another name.

MR. PAUL: Pardon me, I thought you said that he
didn't.
H.M.JR: Well, our man who was at the press conference
reported the President saying, and the newspapers said,

that he came out flatly against it.

MR. PAUL That is what I understood.

H.M.JR: This morning he said, "Call it excise tax
or anything else, but don't--'
MR. GASTON: Their name is war consumption tax.

MR. PAUL: I think we have got to see to it that
there isn't a verbal confusion there, that we ought to

do our work between now and April 27 on that.

H.M.JR: Well, this gives us a lot of time.

191
9-

MR. PAUL: But then, of course, on the personal
exemption I have felt from the beginning that we
should lower it, but think now that we have taken the
other position it would stick out like a sore thumb
if we changed our position.
H.M.JR: How do you mean?

MR. PAUL: I was originally for lowering the exemptions, as you know. But we went up on the Hill and
said we didn't want to lower it. Now, a change of

front on that, particularly if you additionally change

your front on the sales tax, means that you pick out
two points, both of which hit the lower income groups,
and change your mind about them so that your whole

additional program falls on them.

H.M.JR: Let's say that they give me a new front.

It isn't the old front. I am not changing. my mind. It
is being changed for me. Last year I didn't want to
lower it to seven hundred fifty dollars, and I had to
do it at the end. I mean, that is one thing, one unpleasant part you will have to learn. I haven't changed

my position, but what are you going to do against a
gang like this?

MR. PAUL: Well, if the sales tax and the lowered
exemptions problem is still open, then we are just about

where we were.

H.M.JR: I am just trying to be realistic.
one.

MR. PAUL: I think your forced saving idea is a good

H.M.JR: Well, I wouldn't- well, you sat in all the

discussions and heard a lot that I haven't. But as to
the forced savings--

MR. PAUL: I think that is an ingenuous development.

I mean, I think we provide for one of our fears there.

192
- 10 We get it higher, which is very good, and we also get

flexibility in the sense that we can put it on at any
time, and we can take it off if it doesn't work. I
think that is very good.
H.M.JR: George?

MR. HAAS: I think the whole situation is very
difficult, and I think we have reached a very good
compromise. There is only one point I would like to
emphasize, that if when Henderson hears that you are

willing to go along on this, he would not think that
he can go leisurely on his rationing, because I don't

think this forced saving - the initial part is easiest
to get, and it is most effective. Afterward, when we

bring out that pressure he spoke of, the only way to
handle that is through rationing and direct control;
so if the heat stays on Henderson's crowd to push

rationing, that they don't relax on that.
H.M.JR: Ferdie?

MR. KUHN: I think it is just as harmful to talk

about forced savings three months in advance as it is
to talk about a sugar rationing well in advance. You
are defeating your own ends by talking about it, and
taking the heart out of the voluntary savings campaign.
If we are going to do the forced savings, that is one

thing; and if we are just going to hold it as a threat

over peoples' heads, and it will operate as determined
from the purchase of regular Savings Bonds, that is

another thing. Secondly, I think the one to fifteen
percent - I suppose it is one to fifteen percent of the
total pay roll, and not of individual earnings.
H.M.JR: Yes.

MR. KUHN: Because it has got to be graduated in

order to be fair, hasn't it?

MR. GRAVES: That couldn't be applied, except on

a uniform basis.

193
- 11 -

H.M.JR: I mean, you might have a sliding scale;
but
when
I was talking one to fifteen, I was talking of
the total
amount.
MR. WHITE: I doubt if Congress would give you the

authority both to raise it from one to fifteen, and

permit you yourself to set a schedule of progress, a
progressive schedule.

H.M. JR: The President.
MR. WHITE: Or the President.

MR. KUHN: The flat rate for individuals is just

as unfair as a sales tax, because it doesn't take any

account of what a man earns and what he has got to pay.

MR. PAUL: But it isn't a tax, Ferdie. I mean, it
goes back to him. It isn't as unfair as the sales tax,
because it isn't permanently withheld from him.
MR. KUHN: But he has got to pay it.

MR. PAUL: It comes out, yes, but it goes back to

him, whereas the sales tax never does.

MR. KUHN: I don't see that that makes any difference
to the man who can't afford this, and who has got to
cut down in order to meet it and to the other man who
has plenty to spare and who can just pay it like that.
I was trying to find out whether the idea was one to

fifteen percent of the nation's pay roll--

H.M.JR: One to fifteen percent of the nation's

pay roll.

MR. FOLEY: Nothing to do with rents or dividends

or interest?

MR. BLOUGH All income.

194

- 12 MR. HAAS: Then you would have maybe as high as a

hundred and twenty billion, fifteen percent of that.
H.M.JR: Well, they figure five percent on--

MR. day.
BELL: Sixty billion was the figure they used
the other
MR. BLOUGH: They were figuring on an exclusion at

the bottom of five hundred dollars for a single person,
and a thousand dollars for a married couple, not an
exemption, but an exclusion at the bottom.
H.M.JR: Well, I have got Green coming in at three
o'clock, and I want to give Harold the chance to know

this. I didn't want to keep Mr. Green waiting.
MR. GRAVES: Well, I don't think that this is

practical at all for the reason that if the President

were to say this in his talk on the twenty-seventh,
I think that would practically kill any hope of reaching
the objectives you had in mind on a strictly voluntary
basis. If we are to reach those amounts that we talked
about the other day, we can only do it with the cooperation of the management and labor in all of the thousands of plants that are involved in the pay roll savings
plan.

H.M.JR: Excuse me a minute.
MR. GRAVES: In my opinion, to announce that kind

of a program, especially if it is coupled, as I under-

stood you to say, with the prospect that you at once
apply one percent pay roll savings, I don't think you
could count on the cooperation of management or the

cooperation of labor. That would be absolutely essen-

tial to the success of the voluntary plan, if we are to

reach anything like the amounts that we talked about the

other day. You take the one percent withholding. It
takes just as much machinery, just as much labor, on

the part of the people that you would expect to collect
that one percent for you, to collect that one percent

195

- 13 -

as it would take to collect fifteen percent; and the

people who would be collecting that one percent are
the people that are now administering the pay roll
allotment
plan, which
keystone
of the voluntary
thing. To expect
them is
to the
come
in-H.M.JR: How many businesses have you got now that

have the pay roll allotment plan?

MR. GRAVES: Big and little, about forty-four

thousand.

H.M.JR: That is what I told Nelson. He couldn't

believe it. I said forty-four thousand.

MR. GRAVES: That is right. I think that if such

a program were announced, it would just put an end to
any chance for the success of the voluntary thing in
the dimensions that we have been talking about. It
just won't do.

MR. BELL: Do you think that just asking for legislation to put it in to effect when the time comes would

do that?

MR. GRAVES: Yes, especially if you had involved
in your announced plan the application at once.

H.M.JR: Well look, this is so important and I have

got two appointments, one at three and one at three

thirty. When the three-thirty goes, I will ask you to

come back. In the meantime, you can be thinking about

it, but I am not going to rush you on this thing. I

mean, I don't want to cut a fellow off in thirty seconds.
When you come back, I will give you plenty of time.
MR. GRAVES: All right.

H.M.JR: As soon as my second appointment leaves.

You know who is coming at three thirty? I have got a

ray that will kill people through the wall.

196
- 14 MR. PAUL: Where was it this morning?

MR. BELL: Murray came out strongly against the
sales tax, didn't he?

MR. PAUL: Hetzel did for him. I talked with

Hetzel up there yesterday.

H.M.JR: Well, as soon as this second appointment

leaves, I will get in touch with you, and you can

come back, and we will have another discussion. In the
meantime, don't burst any blood vessels, Harry.

MR. WHITE: I will try not to, because I have a

couple that will break.

197

April 8, 1942
4:00 p.m.
INFLATION

Present:

Mr. Sullivan
Mr. Gaston

Mr. Bell

Mr. Blough
Mr. Graves
Mr. Kuhn -

Mr. Haas
Mr. White
Mr. Paul
Mr. Foley

Mr. Odegard

H.M.JR: I take it they brought you up to date,

Odegard. I am very glad to welcome you in this crowd.
MR. ODEGARD: I am not so sure I am glad to be here.

H.M.JR: I am serious.
Well, Harold, you continue. Look what Harry White
has done. He has gotten over on the other side of Harold

so I would call on him first. (Laughter)

MR. SULLIVAN: Leave him right there, boss, we are
going the other way.

MR. GRAVES: Well, I think I had practically concluded what I had to say. I might sum up by saying that
I feel that this is not a thing that can be compromised,
that if voluntary savings are to have any change at all,

there can be no announcement of any other alternative program.

198

-2I think that the decisions should be made now whether

voluntary savings are to have that chance and, if that
is the decision, then I believe, as I said on Monday,

that perhaps by July we could demonstrate what can be
done with voluntary savings so that you would know and
everybody else concerned would know whether that was a

feasible approach to this problem. I think that if the

President is to go as far as he suggested on the twentyseventh of April, it would be much preferred for him to
go the whole distance and say he is recommending a program

of compulsory savings. All that is without any reference

to my own feeling about the merits of compulsory savings,
which I am violently opposed to.
H.M.JR: Why?

MR. GRAVES: Among other reasons, the administrative

difficulties of the thing. My own preference for a straight
tax instead of the collection of money that is, after some
lapse of time, to be repaid. That is to say, if we are
going to try to get this income by compulsory methods, in

my judgment it would be far better to take it in taxes

with no obligation on the part of the Government to repay

it. There is one other part of the plan that you suggested
that I would like to comment on and that is the proposition
of using OCD. I think that is something that ought to be

very carefully canvassed before any commitment to use OCD

as such is made on this voluntary plan if it is to be
continued. I think that that would be apt to get us into
grave difficulty and do more harm than good.

H.M.JR: Well, Harold, here in the Treasury family
I am going to be very honest. Here is this whole group
around the President who, without a single exception, say
that we can't get this money. We have got to get it, and
I agree with them that we have to get it one way or the
other. There is nothing in these figures to give me any

confidence that we can get it. Now, after all, for the

first seven days of April we are nineteen percent behind
March and for the first seven days of March we were thirtyseven percent off over February. Now, I just don't know

where this thing is going to disappear to. Now, it is
all very nice to say that that is following the same course

199

-3the United States Savings Bonds did, but we had practically

no sales campaign, one or two men doing mail order and

that is all. Here we have got this vast publicity campaign,

and we are at war and my sales just dwindle out between

my fingers.

MR. GRAVES: Well, I think you a. # I have canvassed

that. I feel that with the announcement of quotas that

you and I were on the verge of announcing, that you find
a sharp change in those results. You see, we have been
going on all these months opposed to quotas. That is, that
was our stated policy, rejecting quotas. We have made
our program one that people could participate in or not as
they chose, one in which people could determine how much

they were to invest with not even a suggestion from the
Treasury as to what the dimensions of the program were.

You corporations have been to asking increase me to participation; go ahead and and, try to in induce connection

with that, I told you that we would have to tell these

people
what we considered satisfactory participation would
be.

H.M.JR: Well, I asked you to pick out, while I was

away - I asked you to pick out some, and I don't know what

has happened. Nobody has given me a report.

MR. GRAVES: Well, we did that. We picked out two
companies and that work is progressing right now, but, as

I told you--

H.M.JR: But Harold, your people here, and they can

interrupt me if they want - until I had a week to think

this thing over in Arizona, nobody, Kuhn, Odegard, or
Graves, said to me, "We can't do this thing without quotas.
There isn't a one of you that said to me, Morgenthau,
in order to make this thing a success, we have got to have

quotas."

MR. GRAVES: Well, I told you that immediately upon
your return.

H.M.JR: Well, when I told you what I wanted to do,

200
-4I came back and said, "Something has got to happen," and

you could tell from the telegrams which I sent-MR. GRAVES: Exactly--

H.M.JR: You could read the handwriting on the wall.
There wasn't a one of the three of you before I went, and

then I sent these dirty telegrams.

MR. ODEGARD: When was this, Mr. Secretary?

H.M.JR: Three weeks ago. When I was in Arizona
I sent these telegrams to Bell and Graves, and when I

found things the way they were out there, I got excited
about
it. But before I left, which was on the - when was
it?
MR. BELL: The twentieth, wasn't it?
MR. KUHN: It was the twenty-seventh.
H.M.JR: Was it the seventeenth or the twenty-seventh?
MR. FOLEY: It was the twenty-second. The seventeenth
was Tuesday, Mr. Secretary. It was the end of that week.
H.M.JR: We left on Sunday the twenty-second and I

got back here on the thirtieth.

MR. ODEGARD: I think you will find that the preparation of the savings schedule which set a definite goal -

we didn't like the word "quota" and we didn't call it

quota - but the things to set a definite goal for dif-

ferent groups had been formulated and completed at least

a month ago.

MR. GRAVES: More than that. The Secretary used it
in his Baltimore speech.
MR. KUHN: February 14.

MR. GRAVES: But we never did get to the point of

201
5-

them throwing
thatathat
at the participating companies and asking
usetoas
yardstick--

H.M.JR: And there is nothing in Oregon to
after yourdeduction
pledge campaign,
that it had
any effect prove, on your
pay-roll
plan, because
I had

go
Oregon
our on this pledge campaign and there

pinning Tickton into whole that faith whole situation, George and Haas we and were

is nothing to prove that that is going to get the results.
MR. GRAVES: Well, I don't know what Mr. Haas may

have told you. He has told me nothing about his analysis

so far as figures go, but I disagree with that.

MR. HAAS: Our statement, I don't think, Mr. Secre-

tary, if I recall - I think the figures for Oregon were

better than the average for the country as a whole. There
is nothing conclusive about the Oregon situation.
H.M.JR: I asked Tickton if he could see that the
pledge campaign in Oregon had any effect on the pay-roll
deduction and the answer I got was no.
MR. HAAS: You asked me that in a wire or something,

and we looked into it and we couldn't get anything - it
didn't interfere. The two plans went along together, and

the performance in Oregon on the number of companies which

are participating and the amounts and so on, the Oregon
State average is higher than the average for the country
as a whole. I don't know what conclusions you can draw

from that. You couldn't say it was--

H.M.JR: Anyway, that is the impression I got. I
mean, the point that I am getting at is simply this: For

me to say to the President of the United States tomorrow

morning - we are talking here inside of this room - "I

can guarantee you a billion dollars a month of E Bonds
for the month of July and a constant increase each month

over that, a constant increase, each month a little bit

more, throughout the year providing that you say to us
that from now until July you will give us the whole-

hearted support of the volunteer plan." Now, I think that

202
-6for
me to
do that,
put
my head in that noose - I just
frankly
haven't
gotto
the
confidence.
MR. GRAVES: Well, I don't think you should. I

never suggested that you should.

H.M.JR: And you wouldn't do it yourself.
MR. GRAVES: No, I wouldn't do it myself. But here
is the funny thing about that, Mr. Secretary. You and I
are asked that, can we produce
which, aif billion
not dollars month
after Bonds, July will out be of spent.
savings
The invested
a in Defense
counter
proposal,
as I analyze

Mr. Paul's memorandum which you gave me Monday evening, is

a forced savings scheme which, If Congress should adopt

it, will produce three billion dollars in a year and a
lowering of income tax exemptions which, if Congress will
adopt that, will produce two, a total of five billion. We
are asked to give up the prospect of a billion which we
are doubtful about to take five billion - I mean a billion
a month to take five billion a year. That is just as
ridiculous to me as anything could possibly be because

the five billion, if you get it, will kill all chances to

get a billion a month.

H.M.JR: You know what their answer will be. "Well,

if that isn't enough, we will just make it ten percent."
MR. BELL: I think their answer is that they want
the five billion in addition to what you expect to get in
Savings Bonds.

MR. GRAVES: You will get nothing in Savings Bonds.

MR. BELL: That is where I think the whole thing is
wrong.

MR. GRAVES: You will get nothing in Savings Bonds
if you introduce a forced savings scheme and lower your

income tax exemptions. You kill the voluntary thing. You

lose a billion a month, or what chance you have to get a

billion a month, to get half that much.

203

-7-

MR. BELL: I think that is right.
MR. ODEGARD: I haven't heard all the discussions,
but I am convinced that these two plans are more or less

mutually exclusive, Mr. Secretary. I honestly don't think
that you can go on on a voluntary basis of savings and

have a system of compulsory saving at the same time,

realistically. Now, I ask this question. Can you get
this legislation that you propose to ask for?
H.M.JR: Well, the President is going to ask for it.
MR. ODEGARD: If you can't get the legislation, even

if the President asks for it, then what is the effect of

the request for this legislation upon the Defense Savings

program?

H.M.JR: Lew Douglas came in here when he first went

in and said, "Can't you give us the statement that there

will be no forced savings?" Do you remember?
MR. ODEGARD: Yes.

H.M.JR: And I told him I would love to, but I can't

do it because I don't know what is going to happen. Do
you remember? Don't get me wrong. I am for this volunteer plan. At lunch Nelson said, "Why are you so strong
for it?" so I gave him the reasons, the mental processes
that the people have to go through and all the rest of
that and what it is worth to have them do it on a volunteer basis, the cooperation and so forth and so on.
(The Secretary held a telephone conversation with

Judge Rosenman as follows:)

204
April 8, 1942
4:19 p.m.

HMJr:

Hello.

S:

Here's Judge Rosenman.

HMJr:

Thank you.

Judge

Rosenman: Henry.

HMJr:
R:

How are you?

I'm
just leaving
a
cousin
of yours.the office to go up and marry

HMJr:

Which one?

R:

Rita Morgenthau's daughter.

HMJr:

(Laughs) Oh, really? That's very nice.

R:

She's getting married.

HMJr:

Good. The reason I'm calling you is, the
Vice President has informed me that he, and
you, Harold Smith, and Eccles, myself - I
don't know - there were six of UB all together and Henderson - are to write him a speech on

the cost of living and inflation

R:

Yes.

HMJr:

April.

between now and the twenty-seventh of

R:

Uh huh.

HMJr:

And I was making some plans, and I didn't know
just what your schedule was and when you were

coming down here.
R:

I'll be down tomorrow.

HMJr:

Tomorrow.

R:

Did Harold show you the draft of a message?

205

-2HMJr:

No, he did not.

R:

Well, we've been working on the draft of a

HMJr:
R:

HMJr:

R:

HMJr:

message - did he say a message or a speech?
He said a speech.

I see. Well, it must have changed.
And 80 I wanted to make my plans accordingly
and - well, you're going to be down tomorrow?
Yeah.

Well, supposing you give me a ring and let me
know when you want to work.

R:

All right. Well, now, who - well, we'll have
to find out from those other fellows, too,
won't we?

HMJr:
R:

Yeah.

Well, now, who's going to - all right. I was
just thinking about who's going to act to get
them together, Wallace?

HMJr:

R:

Well,
will. I suppose you will. I say, I suppose you

Well, all right. I'll give you a ring tomorrow,
Henry.

HMJr:
R:

Yeah. And

Is the date set, the twenty-seventh?

HMJr:

That's what Wallace told me.

R:

Uh huh.

HMJr:

Yeah.

R:

All right. This is the first I've heard of

HMJr:

Well, I was calling you. I didn't know whether

206
-3they'd called you, but I didn't know whether

I would go away this week-end or whether I'd
stay here and work, or how you wanted to do
this, and 80 forth and 80 on.
R:

HMJr:

Well, suppose I call you tomorrow?
Will you?

R:

Yes. When would you be going?

HMJr:

Well, if I'd go away, I'd go away Friday night.

R:

Oh. All right. Well, I'll call you tomorrow.

HMJr:

Right.

R:

Okay.

HMJr:
R:

HMJr:
R:

HMJr:

Good luck.
Fine.

I hope you get ten dollars.

I don't get a cent, damn it. Maybe I'll try
to - maybe this time I'11 send you a bill.
Well, take a - make them give you a Defense
Bond.

R:

(Laughs) Okay. It's a big wedding.

HMJr:

Good. Well, it ought to be worth two Defense
Bonds.

R:

HMJr:

I'll get something to eat.
All right.

R:

I'11 get something to eat.

HMJr:

All right.

R:

Okay, Henry.

HMJr:

Good-bye.

207

-8H.M.JR: Just so that you get the complete picture,

I am in a good humor this afternoon because the more
dirt I get - Judge Rosenman just said, "Have you seen
the message to Congress that Harold Smith has got all
drafted that we have been working on?" (Laughter)

MR. BELL: This committee is just window dressing.
H.M.JR: He said, "We have been working on that for

a
time." I didn't know it was a speech. The message
is long
all drafted.
MR. BELL: Harold told us the other day that the

message would almost take the form of an Executive order.

H.M.JR: He didn't tell us it was drafted.
MR. HAAS: .He said the outline of the memorandum.

H.M.JR: Nice people.

MR. BELL: I think you can go away for the week end.

MR. WHITE: Well, it takes less time to change a
draft than to write a new one.
MR. PAUL: Not one of his.
time.

MR. GASTON: Do you think so? It will take a long, long

MR. WHITE: I can tell better after I see it, Herbert.
H.M.JR: I don't think there is much use wasting time

on it. Go ahead, Peter.

MR. ODEGARD: I am concerned with one thing and that

is this suggestion that we stop, in the Defense Savings
Staff, the announcement of quotas, the plans that we had
underway for a more intensified-H.M.JR: You would do what?

208

-9MR. ODEGARD: I say that we stop the plans we had

underway for a more intensified program. I think if we
could go ahead now regardless of what the plans may be,

whether hopes or fears, for compulsory saving, that Treasury

would certainly be in no worse position if the decision is
later to adopt a plan of forced saving.

MR. PAUL: But you are not facing the lemon that
they have, that this plan which the President announces
which is sponsored by Mr. Smith must be intellectually
symmetric. He can't propose part of the thing and not
all. They have said that repeatedly, we can't announce
anything but an all-out program, all the way down the
line. Hansen was frank enough at one time to say, "What

will the editorials say if we don't cover this point?"

MR. ODEGARD: I think what the editorials are going
to say, as Ferdie has been talking about and I think very,

very realistically too, what the editorials and columnists
are going to say if this whole business gets into the

hands of the Arthur Krocks and the Frank Kents and so on,
and they say, "Well, the Defense Savings Staff, the

voluntary effort is a failure anyway, that is, the

compulsory savings people needling these columnists,
whether consciously or unconsciously, have a devastating

effect not only upon the voluntary savings program but

I think they add to the conflict and so on. Our program

has one very great advantage, that we have no partisan

flavor. I think perhaps almost without exception in our

effort in the defense program the Defense Savings Staff
has come clean of almost any partisan hostility or any

factional hostility, and we are in a much stronger posi-

tion to push ahead on a more vigorous intensified program
than almost any other agency in the Government, and we

sacrifice that, in my judgment. If the President asks for

this, if he asks for it, then I think we ought to be

prepared to more or less abandon the voluntary effort and
go all-out for a really substantial program of compulsory
savings on a graduated basis that will yield not two or

three billion dollars a year but will yield ten or twelve

or more, and my preference would be all sorts of taxes
and have done with it except perhaps to sweeten it--

209
- 10 MR. GASTON: Your preference would be what, Peter?

MR. ODEGARD: To make it a straight out tax.

MR. GASTON: And not have it a forced loan at all?
MR. ODEGARD: Not have it a forced loan except perhaps where it may necessary to sweeten it at the lower
end.

MR. KUHN: In cases of privation.
MR. ODEGARD: I would exempt those cases anyway from

the tax. This, it seems to me, is neither fish, flesh, nor

fowl, as I see it. Now, I am not an expert.
H.M.JR: Well, I am sorry you haven't sat in on more
of these. One place where I disagree with you, and I think

Harold will agree with me, is that he wouldn't want me to
put my own signature on a letter to forty-four thousand
corporations and write a letter to the head of every unit

saying that on the fifteenth of April we are starting a

plan whereby we are asking them to deduct ten percent from

the pay roll and this is a must, you see. And then the
first of May start a quota of so much per county and so on

and go out on this thing. If we were to write forty-four

thousand corporations and ask them to do this, "This is the
thing that Washington wants, this is what the Treasury
wants, and this is what we want from here, you have got

to do this thing," and then on the twenty-seventh of
April have the President go to the country on a fire-side
chat and tell them what we want to do is to raise five
percent through forced savings, I don't think Harold

wants me to do that.

MR. GRAVES: I don't.

H.M.JR: Peter said he thought we ought to go ahead

no matter what is in the offing.

MR. GRAVES: Anything short of an announcement that

the President is going to recommend legislation for forced

savings.

210
- 11 H.M.JR: Do you want me to do that?
made.

MR. GRAVES: Not if that announcement is going to be

MR. ODEGARD: Not if the President is going to make
that announcement, Mr. Secretary, but until we know that

he is going to make that announcement, if there is any
doubt that he will, I think we ought to go ahead.
H.M.JR: Well, Wallace this afternoon came from the
White House and said the President was for forced savings.
I am seeing him tomorrow morning, and I will know. When
I come back from there tomorrow morning I will know. I
will make it my business to know.
MR. KUHN: Mr. Secretary, the point that Peter made
was this very strange absence of any leaks among the

columnists who are just itching to get onto this subject.

There has been nothing from Sullivan, Krock, Frank Kent,

or any of those babies, and I am just sure that they are
going to come out with the indirect story of this con-

troversy within the Government and are going to come out

and say, "Well, the Treasury thing has been a failure,"
and that is going to react on our campaign-H.M.JR: Where are they going to get that from?
MR. KUHN: From the people who usually feed them

around town.

H.M.JR: Let me see - you mean that once these people
know the President is for forced savings, they are going

to tell them that?

MR. KUHN: Even if he is not, Mr. Secretary, because

the favorite way of fighting a case in town is to fight

it in the newspapers; and, if the people around town are
bluffed, they go to the columnists.

H.M.JR: Well, this crowd that was in here this

morning doesn't work with that crowd of columnists. I mean,

211
- 12 -

that isn't the crowd that does it.
MR. KUHN: The OPA and the War Production Board and

all those people?

H.M.JR: Well, Ferdie, if you don't mind, I want to

make up my mind as near as I can on what is right without
watching the gallery.

MR. KUHN: I only thought of its effect on it.
H.M.JR: After all, from coast to coast every edi-

torial writer in the United States condemned me for my
six percent plan and I didn't get any support from the

Administration, and now Robert Taft comes out and says

it should only be five percent. So I mean, I can't be

guided by what the newspapers will or won't say. I mean,
I can't say, "Well, I won't do this because the newspapers

may or may not attack me."

MR. KUHN: That wasn't in my mind. It was simply
what Dan had said about the effect of discussion on the
sale of Savings Bonds.

H.M.JR: Well, to sum up, if I may, the impression
that the three of you leave with me is that you want me
to tell the President that he should make up his mind
either to continue to give us this chance until July to

demonstrate we can or cannot or to say he is going to go

for forced savings, and I should say to him, Well, then,
make up your mind that the voluntary plan will just peter
out. Whatever you are counting on from this, just strike
it off the books. "
MR. GRAVES: With this addition, if I may repeat.

I think the President's attention should be called to the
fact that the concrete proposition, so far as it has

crystallized, is for five billion dollars a year.
MR. WHITE: Six and a quarter.

MR. GRAVES: No, the one and a quarter is a sales
tax, as I suppose, which need not have any material effect

212
- 13 -

on a voluntary savings plan. It will have some, of course.

MR. WHITE: I say, if you wouldn't get that-MR. GRAVES: Well, six and a quarter.
MR. SULLIVAN: As against what?

MR. GRAVES: As against twelve. Now, I think that

you would not be taking a risky position at all if you

were to say to the President that you can exceed that six
and a quarter billion on a voluntary - on a continuation
of the Defense Savings program.

H.M.JR: Say that again, will you please.
MR. GRAVES: The specific proposal that is stated in

Mr. Paul's memorandum is for lowering of income tax

exemptions which will produce two billion dollars, compulsory savings which will produce three billion dollars,
and the consumption tax item which will produce a billion

and a quarter, or a total of six and a quarter billion
dollars in the fiscal year '43. Now, I said that I thought

you would be entirely safe in saying to the President that
we can exceed that six and a quarter billion dollars by
continuation of the Defense Savings program, so if the

choice between those alternatives - I believe the President ought to be urged to leave the voluntary program
alone.

H.M.JR: You mean as between that and six and a
quarter?

MR. GRAVES: Right.

MR. SULLIVAN: Sure.

213
- 14 -

MR. GASTON: Harold's point is that we are not talking here about a mere matter of increasing the amount of

the voluntary savings. This twelve billion dollars a year,

some
of
his
as
is
that
the
tary program is imperiled by putting into effect compulbillion a month program, contemplated increasing the

voluntary point, savings I understand by five it, billions whole dollars; volun- but

sory savings, which means wiping out some six and a half

billion
dollars
we are now getting from voluntary savings,
but
I don't
think-MR. WHITE: That is not fair.
MR. GASTON: I don't think that would be wholly

true. I think you could save a considerable part of
that voluntary program. I think you would lose some of
it without a doubt.
MR. PAUL: Of course there would be a period from
now until, say, July when you would lose - you would be

getting neither the one nor the other. Anything you lose

on the voluntary would be minus, and you wouldn't have

the compulsory in effect. You must take that into ac-

count.

MR. GRAVES: Isn't there another important thing that
has to do with the technique of this thing?
In my judgment, the minute you expect employers

throughout the country to collect your three billion in
enforced saving, that kills the pay-roll allotment plan.
That will kill the pay-roll allotment plan, so that you
will lose entirely except for what casual buying
employees will make in banks and post offices.

214
- 15 H.M.JR: Of the forty-four thousand corporations

signed up, how many employees does that represent?

MR. GRAVES: About twenty million.
H.M.JR: You mean twenty million are exposed?

MR. GRAVES: That is right. Our participation
there, as you have noted, is constantly increasing. Now,

it is about forty-five percent.

H.M.JR: You know, you would think this crowd

discovered inflation. I look in my Boston speech in
September, and I say we have been talking about inflation for a long time as if it was a threat remote from
our daily lives. We are facing it now, and we must
deal with it at once.
MR. WHITE: That was six months ago.

H.M.JR: September. They act as though they discovered inflation.
MR. GASTON: This group in the Treasury, Dan's

Friday lunch, has been talking this inflation thing now
for a year.

MR. BELL: Since October, 1940.

MR. SULLIVAN: It seems to me, Mr. Secretary, there

is one very important aspect of this thing.
(Mr. Foley left the conference.)
MR. ODEGARD: Mr. Secretary, on the quotas, just

as a matter of historical interest, in a memorandum
which I sent to you on January 14, 1941, you will find

a suggestion of the possibility of quotas.
H.M.JR: Recommending it?

MR. ODEGARD: Not recommending it, not disapproving

it, suggesting it. The idea had been thought of. I
merely suggested it.

215
- 16 H.M.JR: I said recommended to me. What I say,

and I repeat, is that until I got back here on the

thirty first, nobody had said to me in the Defense
Savings group that in order to make this thing a success
you have got to have quotas.
MR. BELL: Had you talked about a billion a month

before?

H.M.JR: Yes.

MR. SULLIVAN: It seems to me, Mr. Secretary, that
this discussion is completely neglecting one aspect of

the situation that I consider very important. Everything

we talked about so far has been very cold blooded, just
dollars and cents. I think you know my opposition to
enforced savings, but what I am going to say now has no

relationship to that. I think this Defense Savings plan

has been not only the biggest job the Treasury has under-

taken, but it has certainly been the most widely publicized cooperative effort the American people have ever

engaged in; and if while this is just getting underway

we quit and admit that it is a failure, there are going

to be repercussions throughout the country, intangible
and incapable of measurement, but I think they are going
to be very serious and very harmful.
(Mr. Foley entered the conference.)

MR. SULLIVAN: You have thousands of people all
over the country who have been doing good patriotic work,

contributing their time and their efforts and their

talents.

H.M.JR: How many have you got, Harold, just roughly?
MR. ODEGARD: Seventy-six or seventy-eight thousand.

MR. GRAVES: Well, it is more than a hundred thousand
members of our local committees.

MR. SULLIVAN: Now, all of those people are going

to feel let down. In addition to that, I think that

216
- 17 everybody who has bought a bond is going to feel a

little bit peculiar about this situation. Yes, I do,

sir. I mean, when a person buys a bond now, that is
a chance for him to make a voluntary patriotic contribution to his Government, and there isn't any amount of
money you can get out of a legally enforced contribution
that is going to make up for the morale that goes along
with that voluntary contribution. Whereas, Harold points
out that the twelve billion a year that he hopes to get
through voluntary exceeds the amount that this program

calls for, I would say that even if you didn't get but

three-quarters as much out of the voluntary savings as
you get out of this program with the enforced savings, I

would still be in favor of the voluntary system. I

don't think that you can go ahead with this thing on a
purely cold-blooded regimented basis and get half the
response in morale from the country that you will get
under a voluntary savings plan.
Now, Mr. Secretary, maybe it is true that the
President has told the Vice President he is for forced
savings, but I would be rather inclined to - disclined
until I learned otherwise to believe that he told anybody

he was for it until he discussed it with you.

This is your baby, and I think he is going to listen

more to you and your views than all of the crowd that is
around him. Not only have that crowd not been intimately
acquainted with what has happened in this drive, but they

never were for it in the first place, I don't think. I
think they were all for voluntary savings or some type
of Keynes' plan from the very beginning.
H.M.JR: You mean compulsory.
MR. SULLIVAN: Yes.

MR. ODEGARD: Mr. Secretary, can I ask this question?

H.M.JR: All right. Harry is going to have a

217
- 18 MR. WHITE: Sure is. The clock is moving around,
and they are going to adjourn before they get to me.
(Laughter)

MR. ODEGARD: The question I would like to ask is

this. If we went ahead on a withholding tax basis, a

straight-oui tax, I hope it wouldn't be a flat tax, but

a graduated tax. Then we could save, it seems to me,
a very substantial part of the voluntary savings program

if that is a straight-out tax; but if it is in the nature

of a savings program, a compulsory savings program, you

are saying to the American people, "This is what you
want us to save," and they are through saving. I think

it will kill the savings program if you call it a compulsory savings program. If you call it a straight-out

tax program, event hough you collect the same amount of
money, the chances of saving the voluntary savings pro-

gram are greater than if you call it a compulsory savings

program.

H.M.JR: Now if you will all just give me one minute, please. Are you through, John?
MR. SULLIVAN: No, I had just two more comments I
wanted to make. I know that there are many people who

are now for forced savings because they are scared to
death of the word "coercion," and they think that between
the present leaning-over-backward program and actual
coercion there is no midway, and I don't agree with them.
I think that a great deal more enthusiasm can be put
into this campaign without coming to anything that is

really coercion. The other thing I want to suggest is
this, that I think that in the April 27 speech the
President can very well go on with the rest of his pro-

gram and say, "We must have so much from savings. If
we are unable to get it from voluntary savings, we may
have to adopt some other system," and I think he can do

that, and he can present the entire picture just as well

as he can by coming out and enforcing compulsory savings.

That is all I have to say, sir.
H.M.JR: Herbert?

218
- 19 MR.GASTON: I think that the mere announcement that

a plan of compulsory saving is going to be put into
effect will have some effect and a decided effect upon
the voluntary program. Just the mere announcement

of putting that into effect will have a much stronger

effect on it, will hit it very much harder. It will

practically kill the voluntary program when you put it
into effect, so I think you can't contemplate a program
initiating at a rate of one percent or even five percent
as a general proposition. I think you have got to start

in. If you are going to do this thing, you have got to
start in quick, and I think you will have to scale it
down to the little taxpayer, but I think you will have to

have a rate upward of ten percent. Now, if I thought we
could stop the sales tax and stop a lowering of exemptions,
I think I would say that would be all right to do that,
recognizing the fact that you have got to have a drastic
program of compulsory saving; but I don't think we are

going to be in a position to dicker at all, so I think

it would be better just to say what are the disadvantages,
what are you going to do to a program that is yielding at
the rate of about five billions a year now and can yield

considerably more, and that they are proposing an alternative that probably won't yield anywhere near as much.

H.M.JR: You are not getting anything like five
billion now. In March you got three hundred thirty-four.
MR. GASTON: Total?

H.M.JR: Of "E" bonds.
MR. GASTON: Oh, that is "E" bonds only.
H.M.JR: And you are running twenty percent below

March now.

MR. HAAS: But, Mr. Secretary, there is a large
volume of savings that under no conditions would come
through into the Treasury via the Savings Bonds, which

are anti-inflationary, and you want to preserve those.
We
estimating
andwere
a half
billion. that personal savings would be fifteen

- 20 -

219

H.M.JR: Where will they go?
MR. HAAS: They are in the same status as the "E,"

"F," and "G." The key point of the whole thing is this.

When you say you want forced savings, what do you mean

by forced savings? You mean savings that won't be spent.
By putting them in this way, do you achieve this notspending that is wanted in that manner? This rationing
brings about a forced saving, because it prevents spending.

MR. BELL: That is what you want.
MR. HAAS: That is what you want, and you could

continue with a so-called voluntary effort if the
rationing is extensive, and I think what is going to

happen here, and you remember, Harry Hansen said even

a year from today you may be over-all extensive ration-

ing, but he said the public is not prepared for that.
H.M.JR: Harry?

MR. WHITE: I think much of what has been said is

very cogent; but if one analyzes the two different types
of saving which are the issue, I gather, the program

which you now have of voluntary saving has two important

objectives. One is to raise money, which is a question
of magnitudes from the proper sources, raise it from
the proper sources. The second is the psychological,
the morale-building effect, which is very real and very
important. Those are the two objectives. Now, with

respect to the first objective, that of magnitudes, I

don't think the voluntary saving has any chance to
satisfy the requirements that we are going into. In

the first place, it is not twelve billion that you are
raising. It is only six from the sources that we are
talking about. You are only going to - the maximum,
if you are successful a hundred percent, you expect to

get ten percent of the salaries, and that isn't twelve
billion, that is closer to six. They are about equal

amounts, six and a quarter and six, because the other
type of saving is going to take place anyhow. People
are not going to throw money down the sink or put It

- 21 -

220

in a rat hole when they can get three percent for it,
so you will have plenty of people investing still on
the voluntary saving, so I think from the point of
view of magnitudes it is very doubtful that you will
get enough. I agree with Harold that a forced saving
plan must start with something substantially more than
one percent, because it will greatly curtail the amount
that you expect to get from voluntary sources. Now,
the chief point is that voluntary saving is out the

window the moment you introduce forced saving. I don't
see that at all if you forget magnitudes and confine
yourself to the psychological and morale-building effect.

In fact, I think you can do a far better job in building

morale, in selling democracy, in getting the war spirit,
if you are not concerned with the fact that you have got
to make a quota, because being concerned with that you

very gradually and surely go to methods that only with a
stretch of imagination can be called voluntary saving,

and you resort to types of pressure which cause a boomerang;

whereas if you are free from the necessity of attaining
a certain level, depending upon forced saving to give you
the magnitude, then you can make your appeal a pristine,

patriotic appeal. You can do everything you are doing
now and double it and get good results, and I think it
will yield some quantity unquestionably.

H.M.JR: What is a pristine appeal? (Laughter)
MR. WHITE: It is a new kind of appeal. You have
to be young to have it. (Laughter) So I think much
of the cogency of your argument, the appeal that John
and the rest of you are making, which is very real,
because I too am impressed with the fact that I think
this program is the best morale building there is, I

think it has even greater possibilities, and I would
like to see your efforts concentrated on that kind of

appeal, rather than appealing to a man's patriotism by

holding a gun to his head, which is what it will get to
when you have to deliver a billion ollars by a given
time, so that I don't see why both possibilities do not
exist. Go ahead with your voluntary program, but don't

expect to get quantitative results that are large.

221

- 22 Depend upon that for your forced saving, which will
help your tax bill, because with the forced saving you
don't have to talk about reducing exemptions. You can
start lower.
MR. GASTON: You have got to leave people some-

thing to live on. They can't live on a non-cashable
bond.

MR. WHITE: Well, the bond could easily be made,

I take it - those are just administrative features.

You would make the collateral for a loan at low rates
of interest under special circumstances.
MR. GASTON: And if you go to this new principle
of a forced loan, aren't you going to adopt the income
tax principle, and aren't you going to have to grade
it all the way up to income available?

MR. WHITE: I am in favor of making it progressive

and not a flat rate, but, of course, this plan of mine
is a second choice anyway. The first choice is out.
H.M.JR: Harold?

MR. GRAVES: I think there is one thing that Harry
overlooked that has to do with the mechanics of this
thing. We are depending upon the employers to sell our
bonds for us, take care of all the accounting and recording, and to a considerable extent the issuing of bonds.
MR. WHITE: You won't need that.

MR. GRAVES: I was trying to say that if you give
them the other job to do, of collecting your compulsory
savings, the two just can't exist together.

MR. WHITE: I quite agree with you. I don't think
you can look for pay-roll deduction plans. I think
pay-roll deductions should be out.

MR. GRAVES: And that is what I meant when I said

that this would kill your voluntary plan largely because
your pay roll allotment thing is gone.

222
- 23 MR. WHITE: Well wait, I don't regard the two

as identical. The pay-roll allotment plan is gone. I
still think there is a very broad area for a voluntary
appeal for savings.

H.M.JR: If you have a pay roll allotment plan - you

are not going to have the manufacturer doing two jobs.

MR. WHITE: Well, the manufacturer doesn't build any

morale.

MR. GRAVES: I disagree with that.

H.M.JR: Now let me just tell you something. I

wanted to have everybody hear it. Nobody asked me what

Mr. Green had to say. Is anybody interested in what he
has to say?

MR. GASTON: Yes, I would be interested in what he

has to say about the sales tax as one thing. They quote
him as favoring it.
H.M.JR: Well, Mr. Green is opposed to any ceiling
on wages. He is opposed to all cellings. (Laughter)
MR. WHITE: On prices too?
MR. BELL: On prices?

H.M.JR: Yes, that is what he says. He says, "We

can't be for a ceiling on prices without being for a
ceiling on wages."

MR. WHITE: He is a patriot.

H.M.JR: Now, he is against the sales tax. Then I
got to him on this question of forced savings and the

voluntary plan, and I said, "Now look, Mr. Green, supposing the President of the United States would give me a
letter and ask me to go out and ask the unions and the
manufacturers to voluntarily deduct ten percent of their

pay roll each week. Would you do it?" "Yes," he said,

223
- 24 -

"that is reasonable, and that is the way to do it."

He said he would like to do it, and he said, "The

unions are very proud and very happy in what they are

doing." He said, "It means a lot to them. They are
very happy and very proud," and he didn't ask for a
letter from the President. He said, "You write me a

lafter, and we will do it." But I said, "Well, I

wouldn't do it unless the President put it in writing
to me publicly, that that is what he wants.
MR. GASTON: I wonder if anybody has considered

this phase of it?

H.M.JR: But I thought you might be interested in
what he had to say, but the other thing he said - I

thought it was the most amazing statement - I have heard

a lot of statements all week. (Laughter)

MR. WHITE: At least he is consistent, Mr. Secretary.
MR. BELL: You have heard a lot of statements about

the attitude of labor.

MR. SULLIVAN: Give him credit; he is consistent.

H.M.JR: But that takes the cake. Yes. And then at

the end--

MR. WHITE: He probably wanted to stop the war.

H.M.JR: I said, "How are you about inflation, do
you think we should hold our prices?" He said, "Oh,
by God, yes, we should hold our prices."

MR. GASTON: He is just like a farmer.

H.M., JR: So it is a great world we live in.
MR. GASTON: I wonder if anybody has considered this

phase of this thing?
H.M.JR: Isn't that amazing? At least he was honest.
MR. BELL: How about the other side, are you going
to see them too?
MR. FOLEY: Murray?

224
- 25 H.M.JR: He is out of town.
MR. BELL: That comes right from the horse's

mouth.

H.M.JR: Nobody speaking for labor would be as
honest as that.
MR. WHITE: As honest?

H.M.JR: As Green was with me.

MR. WHITE: I would say he was foolish.

H.M.JR: Well, he was honest.
MR. WHITE: If he was honest, he was foolish.
MR. PAUL: They are the same thing frequently.

MR. HAAS: I think that is the trouble with them.
H.M.JR: Now look, I got around as far as Paul,
and everybody thought this idea from one to fifteen was
swell, and then these fellows know, Graves knows,
Sullivan knows. Haas?

MR. HAAS: I viewed it as a compromise situation.

I thought you - I mean, if Henderson goes ahead exten-

sively on rationing and the thing is kept in the lower
brackets, I think you can run the two things; but without

rationing, the situation is lost.

H.M.JR: Just as much as Henderson let us see this
morning. Suppose he goes just that far, and no further?
MR. HAAS: That isn't enough.

H.M.JR: Yes, but what about my one and fifteen?
Going as far as Henderson did this morning.
MR. HAAS: I don't think - of course, Henderson

has got the job of holding prices, and I don't think
he can hold them that way.

225

- 26 H.M.JR: But, I have got to say something to the

President tomorrow morning.

MR. HAAS: On that thing I felt it was, out of a

difficult situation, probably as good as you can make

out of it. I took that position. If you feel - you said

you
couldn't get anywhere with this over-all rationing
at all.

H.M.JR: George, you are not giving me an answer.
I can do one of three things tomorrow morning. I can
go to the President and say, "Go ahead with forced
savings, go ahead with - give me a chance to continue
until July with my volunteer plan and see what we can

do the way I said in my letter," or I can say, "Let us
go ahead and see what we can do-until July, but-i is
all right with us if you ask Congress to give you the
authority to put in forced savings if and when you think
it is necessary."

MR. HAAS: Oh, well, I think I would put in another

alternative there where you can achieve success. You
can go ahead on your volunteer plan, providing the ration-

ing is stepped up very rapidly; and you could explain to
the President that that is the only way you can stop this
situation in any case, that the forced saving as now
visualized will not do it, because all the leakages there will be liquidation of assets which people have,

and certain things.

H.M.JR: Well, Herbert?

MR. GASTON: Well, I think that one to fifteen is
no good on the lower end. I think if you start, you have
got to start fairly heavily, and the minimum is five
percent.

H.M.JR: Well, if you had to say - if you were going

over tomorrow and had to tell the President, where would
you stand on this whole thing?

MR. GASTON: Give us another chance on the voluntary

savings, because there are possibilities in it, and I

- 27 -

226

don't think they fully realize the difficulty on the
other side. There is another one that hasn't been
mentioned. I think it is going to have some effect

both on national morale and on world morale, the idea

that we are forced to go to forced saving at this stage
of our participation in the war, that we can't get the
money, we can't finance ourselves, we have got to go to
forced loans to do it.
H.M.JR: That is good. Harry?
MR. WHITE: I should be inclined to tell him the
third point you made, that you would like to go ahead
with the voluntary savings, but that he ought to ask
in his message for authority to impose forced savings,

or that he will ask for forced saving. I don't think he
ought to ask the authority to do it. That is, if it

doesn't work out. That prepares you both ways. You are
asking for a chance to continue, and you are also recognizing the possibility that you may not be successful,
and you are preparing the groundwork, or he is, to say
that he may come to them soon and ask for a program of

forced saving. He is protecting himself either way. If
it is enough, fine; and if it isn't, he will come before
them and ask for legislation on forced saving. I don't
think it is necessary for him to say anything more than

that.

H.M.JR: Dan, do you want to change?

MR. BELL: Well, I would say that if you can get

the voluntary savings, that is it; but I didn't think
you could get it in this picture at this time, because
they were going to insist on an all out program, and

the best you could get was what you suggested a while

ago, a sort of a compromise. But, I would be in favor

of the voluntary plan if you could get that. If not,
I would take the compromise from one to fifteen. Put
it in whenever the President feels that it should be
put in.

MR. FOLEY: I think, Mr. Secretary, you are going
to come to forced savings sooner or later, as I said

227
- 28 -

before, and I certainly think you ought to at least
tell the President he should recommend forced savings

legislation in this message. You can go ahead with the
volunteer in the meantime until we have to impose

forced savings, but I think we ought to be realistic

and recognize that that is what we are coming to.
H.M.JR: Roy?

MR. BLOUGH: I feel much as I did before, that if
you could do just what you wanted to do, ask for the
voluntary, but have the country put on notice that
a great deal of purchasing power must be taken out, either
through taxes or voluntary or compulsory, that the next

best thing is to either ask directly for legislation now
or to put Congress on notice that you will ask for it in
case the voluntary saving program is not adequate.

H.M.JR: Randolph, have you got any second thoughts?

MR. PAUL: My only second thought is not so very

different. I think your discretionary idea is a good
one. I don't speak about precise percentages, but I

think we ought to settle forced saving. I don't think

we are going to get anywhere with the voluntary. I
don't mind leaving the door open to the voluntary effort,
but I think we ought to accept the forced saving idea and
trade as much out of it as we can, and perhaps get rid
of the sales tax and lowering the exemptions. That is the
way it looks to me, that we might be able to stifle some
of our opposition if we agree to the forced saving.
H.M.JR: O.K., gents.
MR. BELL: One thing, Henderson and his group, of

course, will be in a position to almost kill our voluntary

plan through inaction on the rationing.

MR. GASTON: Well, that means that they just abandon

their function, and they can't - you can't assume they
will do that.