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DIARY

Book 466

November 27 - 30, 1941

-ABook

Page

466

242

Appointments and Resignations

Paul, Randolph: To be in charge of preparation of
new tax bill - HMJr-Paul conversation - 11/28/41..
a) FDR notified - 12/10/41: See Book 471, page 82
b) Appointment - 12/13/41: Book 472, page 292

-BBank of America

First Trust and Savings Bank, Pasadena, California,
absorbed - 11/28/41

232

Belgium

See War Conditions: Foreign Funds Control
BISMARCK

See War Conditions: Military Reports

Businesses, Small
See Financing, Government: Defense Savings Bonds

-CCerro de Pasco Copper Corporation, Mexico
See War Conditions: Silver
China

See War Conditions: China; Foreign Funds Control
Coordinator of Information
See War Conditions: Military Reports
Correspondence

Mrs. Forbush's resume - 11/28/41
Coster, F. D.

311

See McKesson and Robbins

-DDefense Savings Bonds

See Financing, Government

-EEccles, Marriner S.
See War Conditions: Inflation
Economists

For list, see Revenue Revision

-Farm Credit Act of 1941
Summary of Treasury letter to Budget Bureau 11/28/41

Farm Mortgage Corporation, Federal
See Financing, Government

Federal Farm Mortgage Corporation
See Financing, Government

272

- F - (Continued)

Book Page

Financing, Government

Conference; present: HMJr, Haas, Morris, Murphy,
Hadley, Bell, and Schwarz - 11/27/41

466

60,97

a) $1 billion wanted by Bell to carry

through until February without further

borrowing

Federal Farm Mortgage Corporation: Bell's letter
to President Black on future financing - 11/27/41
Excess reserves and interest rates - recent changes
in: Haas memorandum - 11/27/41
"December Financing: Summary and Conclusions" Haas memorandum - 11/29/41
Defense Savings Bonds:

123
125
260

O'Mahoney (Senator, Wyoming). and HMJr discuss

priorities' effect on civilian business;

"civilian business the goose that lays the
golden egg that will pay for the defense program":

O'Mahoney - 11/27/41

93

a) Discussion at 9:30 meeting - 11/28/41
Progress report - 11/28/41
a) Status of State Organizations - map
Field Organization News Letter, No. 28 - 11/29/41
Comparative statement of sales during first 22
business days of September, October, and

November, 1941
France

See War Conditions: Foreign Funds Control

-Girard, Marie

See McKesson and Robbins

-H-

Hitler, Adolph

See War Conditions: Military Reports

-Indo-China

See War Conditions: Export Control

Inflation

See War Conditions

Irving Trust Company

See War Conditions: Silver

-LLatin America
Mexico:

See War Conditions: Silver

222
275

307
308

378

-MBook

Page

466

309

McKesson and Robbins

Insurance policies payable to Marie Girard - Foley
memorandum - 11/28/41
Mexico

See War Conditions: Silver

-oOffice of Facts and Figures
Interdepartmental Advisory Committee - personnel of:
MacLeish release - 11/27/41

138

O'Mahoney, Joseph C. (Senator, Wyoming)
See Financing, Government: Defense Savings Bonds

-PPaul, Randolph
See Appointments and Resignations; Revenue Revision
Procurement Division

in an attempt better to carry
Over-all study
out function of Government procurement - HMJr's
memorandum to Mack - 11/27/41

a) Mack reply - 11/29/41

146
310

-RRevenue Revision

Conference: present: HMJr, Kades, Blough, Paul,
Sullivan, Groves, Tarleau, Buffington, Haas, Cann,
Foley, and White - 11/27/41

3

a) Computation of tax liability on 1940 income

under present law for General Motors,
Glenn L. Martin, Curtiss-Wright, Coca Cola,
American Car and Foundry, United States Steel,

and Bethlehem Steel
"Speeding up 1942 income tax collections" - memorandum

39, etc.

for HMJr - 11/27/41
"Tax on increases in income as a means of preventing

53

"Number of white-collar salaried persons, 1935-1936

59

inflation" - 11/27/41

56

Tax-exempt Organizations: Conference; present: HMJr,

Graves, White, Foley, Kades, Sullivan, O'Connell,

Odegard, and Gaston - 11/27/41

Economists with tax experience - Blough list
Paul, Randolph: To be in charge of preparation of new
tax bill - HMJr-Paul conversation - 11/28/41

71

132
242

-S-

Book Page

Silesian-American Company

See War Conditions: Foreign Funds Control
Silver
See War Conditions
Small Businesses

See Financing, Government: Defense Savings Bonds
Spain

See War Conditions: Foreign Funds Control

Sweden

See War Conditions: Foreign Funds Control
Switzerland

See War Conditions: Foreign Funds Control

- UUnited Kingdom

For British film settlement, see War Conditions:

Foreign Funds Control

War Conditions

Airplanes:

Shipments - British Air Commission report -

466

334

11/28/41
China:

Stabilization Board: Taylor 'plane reservation

arranged for at Hong Kong - 11/29/41
Exchange market resume - 11/27/41, etc
Export Control:
Exports to Russia, China, Burma, Hong Kong,
Japan, France, and other blocked countries,
week ending November 22, 1941 - White report -

381

196,359,387

341

11/28/41

Exports to Indo-China - British Embassy

349

memorandum concerning - 11/28/41

Foreign Funds Control:

British film settlement - resume' of -

159

11/27/41

Spain: "Certain generals influenced in actions
through monetary considerations" - British
Embassy does not wish funds used for this
purpose frozen - 11/28/41

248

- W - (Continued)

Var Conditions (Continued):
Foreign Funds Control (Continued)
Administration of Executive Order 8389, as amended:
(See also Books 411, 425, 434, 442, 447, 457,

Book

Page

466

153

and 459)

Meeting - 11/27/41
a) Discussion of

1) North Africa licenses

2) French Government funds with
J. P. Morgan and Company for
servicing and amortisation of 7% and
%issues

3) Bank for International Settlements
investment of funds held at Federal

Reserve Bank of New York in shortterm bankers' acceptances
Meeting - 12/5/41: Book 469, page 237
a) Discussion of
1) General Aniline and Film Company

a) Homer Cummings quoted on "opinion

written by Covington, Burling,

Rublee, Acheson, and Shorb that
stock could be trusteed and

7

thus put beyond reach of Alien

Property Custodian" - Acheson
has no knowledge of this

b) Resume' of steps taken to date
2) Belgium: Safe conduct asked for

SS FREDERICK - to come to United States

and return with supplies for prisoners
of war

3) Switserland: Transfers from account of
National Bank of Switzerland to Spanish
Exchange Control Institute - charter
higher on vessels
4) Sweden: $4 million in Danish dollar
bonds and $4 million in Norwegian dollar
bonds now in Switzerland; Swedish Legation
wants plan worked out for pre-cancellation
of coupons before sending to United States
and interest paid into Swedish accounts.

5) China: Stabilisation Board allocation of

$700,000 for purchase of coal for Shanghai
from French Indo-China to be questioned

6) Canadian residents' sale of villa in

France with payment to be made out of
account of Swiss holding company owned
in part by prospective French purchaser
questioned

7.) Silesian-American Company: Proposal of
trustees to borrow $1,700,000 from Union
Bank of Switzerland and LaRoche and
Company not approved

- W - (Continued)
Book

Page

War Conditions (Continued)

Inflation:

"Tax on increases in income as a means of

preventing inflation" - 11/27/41

466

56

Eccles' speech before National Industrial
Conference Board on November 25, 1941

107

Press comment - Merillat report - 11/28/41

323

Lend-Lease:

British Dollar Position:
Relief of strain by making available money
from second Lend-Lease appropriation to be
discussed by Phillips and Wilson - 11/28/41.
Conference; present: HMJr, Phillips, Cochran,
and White - 12/3/41: See Book 468, page 70

333

a) Stettinius' willingness to give relief
from second Lend-Lease appropriation
provided free funds can be found
discussed

Military Reports:

"The War This Week" - 11/20-27/41 - Coordinator
of Information report.
Reports from London transmitted by Halifax 11/27/41, 11/29/41

197

198,388

Hitler's G.H.Q. - Coordinator of Information

report - 11/28/41
Description of destruction of BISMARCK - Kamarck
resume' - 11/29/41
Summary by Kamarck - 11/28/41

Libyan action report - 11/30/41

361

368
374
396

Purchasing Mission:
Federal Reserve Bank of New York statement showing
dollar disbursements, week ending November 19,
1941

Vesting order sales - 11/28/41
Silver:

155

336,337

Cerro de Pasco Copper Corporation, Mexico:

Cancellation of contracts entered into by Irving

Trust Company - 11/27/41
Mexico-United States agreement: Handy and Harman

announce price increase in connection with 11/28/41

a) Cochran memorandum - 12/1/41:
Book 467, page 33

b) Handy and Harman report - 12/1/41:
Book 467, page 35
Banco de Mexico renews arrangement concerning newly-

mined silver for January 1942 - 12/29/41:
Book 479, page 221

168

1

November 27, 1941

9:12 a.m.
HMJr:

Hello.

Operator: Mr. Forrestal.
HMJr:

Hello.

James V.

Forrestal: Henry, are you booked for the Army-Navy game?
HMJr:

Am I booked for the Army-Navy game?

F:

Uh huh.

HMJr:

No. I don't even know when it's coming.

F:

Well, that's coming - you can't be so indifferent
to the Service as that, now, Henry.

HMJr:

What's the matter?

F:

It's coming Saturday.

HMJr:

This Saturday?

F:

Would you want to - would you like to go?

HMJr:

F:

Jim, I think we're going to the country, but I our plans are to go to the country.
I see. Well, do you want to - you probably - do

you want to check and let me know, if you and
Mrs. Morgenthau would like to?
HMJr:

Well

F:

We're going up in the morning - Saturday morning
by car

HMJr:

F:

HMJr:
F:

Yeah. I will check, and I could let you know by
early this afternoon.
That's all right.

It's terribly nice of you to think of us.
Well, I haven't seen you in a hell of a while.

-2-

HMJr:

I thought it might be a chance to dicker.
Yeah. Well, I would like to see you game or
no game.

HMJr:

All right, Henry.
Thank you. I'11 let you know after lunch.

F:

Okay.

F:

2

3

November 27, 1941

9:30 a.m.

RE TAXES

Present:

Mr. Kades

Mr. Blough
Mr. Paul

Mr. Sullivan

Mr. Groves

Mr. Tarleau

Mr. Buffington
Mr. Haas
Mr. Cann

Mr. Foley
Mr. White

Mrs. Klotz.

Blough:

Here is one of your charts.

H.M.Jr:

Do you want to stand and explain it? If the
others don't see it, they can listen.

Blough:

These are the same as I had the other day

except for different companies. This one

is General Motors-H.M.Jr:

Let me see it. I don't care whether they

Blough:

This one is General Motors, which is a big
company. It has three hundred forty-seven

see it.

4

-2-

million dollars worth of income. It had
adjustments of eleven million dollars
excess profits, credit of two hundred
seventeen million, leaving excess profits

income of a hundred and thirty million
dollars.
Its excess profits tax amounted
to seventy-one million dollars.

H.M.Jr:

They earned how much?

Blough:

They earned three hundred forty-seven million
dollars.

H.M.Jr:

Whew!

Paul:

What year was that, Roy?

Blough:

This is 1940.

H.M.Jr:

I am only working with '40. I don't want
anything else but '40.

Blough:

This is the return as filed by them in 1940.

H.M.Jr:

Somebody in General Motors told a friend of
mine the other day that they earned as much

in the first six months as they had in all
of last year.

Blough:

That is a lot of money. Down here we have the
computation of the normal tax showing sixty-

six million dollars normal tax--

H.M.Jr:

Did anybody leave the room just now to buy
some General Motors?

White:

We will buy the room and sell it short after
we get through.

H.M.Jr:

The point is, did anybody leave the room?
(Laughter)

-3Foley:

It is too late now, Harry.

White:

You saw the charts last night, didn't you?

Blough:

So we have about a hundred and sixty-five

5

million dollars worth of taxes altogether,
a hundred and fifty-five million.

H.M.Jr:

How much?

Blough:

About a hundred and fifty-five million
dollars worth of taxes.

H.M.Jr:

How much did they have left over?

Blough:

They had left over a hundred and ninety

million dollars.

H.M.Jr:

What is that proportion, about?

Blough:

That proportion of three hundred forty-seven
is about forty percent.

H.M.Jr:

They had about sixty left over?

Blough:

They had about sixty percent - a little less
than sixty percent left over, between fifty

and sixty percent.
White:

What is their net value, is that there?

Blough:

That is not on this chart. They didn't
report that.
That is about a billion dollars.

Paul:
Blough:

We have some figures of our own. It must be
at least that. They have been making around

twenty-four percent or thirty percent on their
invested capital.
Now here is a case of the United States Steel

-4-

6

Corporation where they are on invested
capital basis, and they haven't made up

to their invested capital credit. Their

income begins here and goes over here. It
is a hundred and twenty million dollars.
Their excess profits credit is more than

their income by fifty-seven million dollars,
so that they are going to have an excess of
credit to carry over to 1941 which they can

use in 1941. They of course have no excess
profits tax and merely have the normal and
surtax on the regular income of the company,
the hundred and twenty million.
H.M.Jr:

They pay nothing because they have a high

capitalization?

Blough:

H.M.Jr:

That is right. In relation to their low

earnings, or low earnings in relation to
capitalization, either way.
I didn't know that was the situation on U.
S. Steel.

Foley:

Are those figures, a hundred and twenty million and three hundred forty-seven million,
net or gross?

Blough:

Those are net income figures.

Foley:

After all operating expenses?

Blough:

After all operating expenses as filed by the
company.

H.M.Jr:

Give me that U. S. Steel again. That amazes
me.

Blough:

U. S. Steel had a hundred and twenty million

dollars. In addition to that it had certain

adjustments over and beyond their normal tax
income. A hundred and two million, I beg your

-5-

7

pardon, slight adjustments there. But their
excess profit credit was a hundred and sixtytwo million dollars, so that they had left
over fifty-seven million dollars of excess
profits credit. Next year that fifty-seven
million will be carried forward as a credit
against whatever income they make next year.
H.M.Jr:

They carry it for one year?

Blough:

Two years.

Sullivan:

They have to make two hundred twelve million

dollars. The hundred and sixty-five plus
the sixty-seven, before they are subject
to excess profits tax.

Paul:

What was their excess profits credit?

Blough:

A hundred and sixty-two million dollars.

Paul:

And twelve times that approximately would

Blough:

That is substantially correct, yes.

Paul:

What would that be, then, a hundred and sixty-

Blough:

A hundred and sixty-two times twelve would

H.M.Jr:

Well, now, let me ask you this. It is amaz-

be their invested capital, wouldn't it?

two times twelve?

be about a billion nine.

ing to me. You people might have all known

this, but certainly it is an eye-opener to
me. Could you do - if you haven't already
started, I would very much like to see
Bethlehem Steel.

Blough:

We have asked for that.

Foley:

That will be just like this one, won't it?

8

-6Blough:
Paul:

It will look very much like this one.
I would like to see one of the smaller steel
companies like Inland Steel or Republic
- Steel or one of those.

H.M.Jr:

All right.

Haas:

One of the new ones that don't have obsolete

H.M.Jr:

Why not just run through the steel and see
the difference between one industry? Why
wouldn't that be a good angle?

White:

Of course, because the assumption that the

stuff to put in the capitalization.

U. S. Steel can have such a large capitalization necessary to do that business will be
shown up when you take some of the other
steel companies.

H.M.Jr:

Well, why not take National Steel and Inland
Steel and Republic and then take a little
one with a high specialty like Ludlow who
makes only these special tool steels? Why

not just stick to the steel and show the

tremendous difference within one industry?

Blough:

H.M.Jr:

What we might do is to have three of four
charts made up on steel and then have for
the rest of the companies the figures so we

can say this company is just like this chart.
Or would you like a chart for every one?
I would like one for every one. There would
only be about eight or ten. Don't you think
so?

White:

Yes, and I think somebody ought to get started
in George's shop at once to segregate the

group of steel companies that you are pick-

ing out to see which of those are sufficiently

-7-

9

similar to justify the conclusion that the
capitalization of the United States Steel

does not represent an adequate basis for

determining what their profits are. I

mean, it would be hardly fair to compare
United States Steel with some other corporation that is making high-grade specialties,

but it certainly would be fair to compare

them with several other steel companies
that make the same type of product and
which have a far higher proportion of

earnings on the basis of their capital.

H.M.Jr:

Blough:

Well, Harry, there are ten or twelve steel
companies and then let's take a look at it
and we can all begin to analyze it, but just
before I - I want to get to you - what were
the net earnings of U. S. Steel?
U. S. Steel? A hundred and two million
dollars.

H.M.Jr:

And how much federal taxes did they pay?

Blough:

They paid in federal taxes thirty-one million

H.M.Jr:

Well, now, is it an accident that most of
these are paying about a third?

Blough:

The tax rate is thirty-one percent, which is
the reason why it tends to be around a third.

Foley:

That is without any excess profits?

Blough:

That is without any excess profits.

H.M.Jr:

But even these that we have seen, I haven't
seen any with excess profits who have paid
more than that.

Blough:

General Motors paid more than a third.

six hundred thousand.

-8 - -

10

H.M.Jr:

Well, forty percent.

Blough:

Something over forty percent.

H.M.Jr:

Why do they keep telling me these companies

are paying sixty percent?

Blough:

We will get you two or three of the war
babies in here. They are paying around sixty.
They ought to be in tomorrow.

H.M.Jr:

Don't you think, Paul, it would be a good
idea to get a whole industry?

Paul:

I do. I think we might get two or three

industries, though.

H.M.Jr:

I mean, they can't turn out--

Blough:

Some, we can't turn out so many of these.

White:

Mr. Secretary, some of us are accustomed

to looking at figures rather than charts and
if it doesn't stop them, what we would like
is if somebody would do that with a great
number of industries just in a column of
figures and make as many charts as they can.

H.M.Jr:

Talk to Roy about it.

Blough:

Well, we will do that.

H.M.Jr:

I think I would like to go through, because
if we can show the difference within one
industry and then after that we can take the

airplane industry, if you want to, or the
ship building. There are not so many ship
building companies.

Blough:

Not a great many large ones, no.

H.M.Jr:

I would like to see the airplane industry.

-9-

11

Blough:

We have quite a number of airplane ones.

H.M.Jr:

Why not go through the airplane industry,
planes and engines?

Blough:

We have already asked for four or five or
six of those.

H.M.Jr:

Do that. I think that would be the most I am simply astonished.

Blough:

Do you want to look at another chart?

H.M.Jr:

I would love to.

Blough:

This is not an individual company. This is
statistics for 1940.

Paul:

Do you have the gross income?

Blough:

I would have to check that up. Gross receipts

Foley:

Well, gross receipts.

H.M.Jr:

Well, it certainly would be in the neighbor-

or gross income.

hood of two million dollars. It certainly

would be at least that, but I would have to
check on it.

H.M.Jr:

But we are going to run through the steel

Blough:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:
Paul:

Is that all right with you, Paul?
Yes, indeed. I would like to see the charts

H.M.Jr:

Well, you can talk to Roy. Go ahead.

first.

on that and see the figures on several industries.

12

- 10 Blough:

We can just hang this somewhere. It isn't
necessary to go through it in detail. Here
we have the income brackets under five

thousand dollars, five to twenty-five
thousand, twenty-five to fifty and so on,

and in this bank here we have the number of
companies with excess profits taxes. These

are the taxable companies. Practically none
of them had less than five thousand dollars
of income because they are exempt unless the

net income is different from the excess

profits tax due to capital gains and losses
and dividends or something like that. By
far the biggest number was in this five to
twenty-five thousand dollar group and then
there were nearly four thousand of those.

Then they go on down until over five million
dollars - we have a very small number of
companies.

On the other hand, we have in this bank the

net income in the pink, whatever that color
is, and the taxable excess profits, the
amount of excess profits subject to tax in
the green for the different size companies
also. The pink being of course natural
because he is much bigger than the green.

And then at the bottom the income taxes and

the excess profits taxes paid by these
companies, the income taxes in the blue-H.M.Jr:
Blough:

I don't get it. Start all over again.
It is too complicated, I will agree, but

this chart has three banks. Number of
returns, amount of income, amount of taxes.
Number of returns by the size of the income
of the company. Amount of income of those

corporations. The corporations with fifty

to a hundred thousand dollars of income had
this much income and this much subject to the

- 11 -

13

excess profits tax.
H.M.Jr:

What conclusion do you draw from that?

Blough:

Well, it shows that as usual the largest

number of companies are small, but that the
big amount of income in excess profits tax
are in a few big companies. You could cut

off - you could cut a line right down here

and cut out all companies with less than a hundred
thousand dollars of income and you would eliminate three fourths or more of the companies

subject to the tax, but you would still have
a very great bulk of the income still subject
to excess profits tax.

H.M.Jr:

Does this show whether we get it or not?

Blough:

This shows what we get.

White:

That also is the best reflection of the concentration of industries in the United States.
That is the best picture of the higness of
industry because you notice those extremely
few companies in the last two columns in the

first bank get a high income in the bank

below.
Paul:

It also shows, does it not, that - in the

middle chart the green is the amount of income subject to excess profits as I under-

stand it and that is a very small proportion
of the income of those companies in all
examples.

Blough:

That is correct on the average. These are
taxable companies. These do not include

companies which were not subject to excess

profits tax and the great bulk of them were

not.

White:

Which would accentuate the tendencies in that

Paul:

chart.
Have you any figures showing what percentage

of the companies are subject to excess profits tax?

- 12 Blough:

14

There are here around twelve thousand five
hundred returns out of five hundred thousand
corporations, of which about two hundred
thousand had an income. Most of them were

eliminated because of their size.

I have some other charts, but I think
that is enough for today if I may suggest it.

Well,

H.M.Jr:

All right. Roy, let me ask you this question.
Is this impression that I have got right as
far as we have gone? After all, let's for
a minute just forget the inflation angle on
the thing, see. Let's just talk revenue for
a minute. If you were told that you had to
get "X" billions of dollars additional
revenue, where would you look for it?

Blough:

That would depend on the size of "X", Mr.

Secretary.

H.M.Jr:

All right, five billion.

Blough:

Five billion dollars?

H.M.Jr:

Yes,

Blough:

Well, I would know to begin with that I

had to go for the bulk of that five billion
dollars to the mass of the people, because
I would know that that five billion dollars
just wasn't left in the hands of a few
hundred or a few thousand people at the

top, so that I would have to go to the
bulk of the people.

H.M.Jr:

Let me ask you this way. I will have to

lead you (Laughter) How many more billions
can you get out of the corporations?

- 13 -

15

Blough:

How many more billions can you get out of the

Paul:

Could we go back a little further and ask
what is the total corporate income? Let's
start there.

H.M.Jr:

That is a good point.

Blough:

Let's see, I am not sure that I can tell you
offhand. I think it is around thirteen
billion dollars.

Paul:

Well, the excess profits tax net income under

Blough:

Let's take this act. We expect about two billion
three hundred million dollars of excess profits
tax under this act.

Paul:

That is on an income of five billion, isn't it?

Blough:

That is on an - oh, you mean -- yes, it would

be around five billion dollars, that is right,
in that neighborhood, out of the thirteen
billion.

Paul:

That is five billion out of the excess profits.

corporations?

the last act was about five, wasn't it?

Now, that seems a large proportion of twelve

or thirteen billion total corporate profits.

Blough:

Well, thirteen billion is, but your total estimated

Paul:

So that out of the total corporate profits
of the United States you have got a little over
two billion or one, six.

White:

What is the five billion figure you are talking

corporate profits for normal tax and surtax
purposes and your five billion would be about
right for your excess profits estimate.

about?

- 14 -

16

White:

That is the profit subject to excess profits tax.
But what you are getting is two billion three
out of thirteen billion.

Blough:

Out of excess profits, that is right.

H.M.Jr:

You figure that the corporations in the calendar
year 41 will earn how much? Don't be afraid,

Blough:

just rough.

Blough:

It has been estimated at thirteen billion dollars,

H.M.Jr:

Of that how much is the United States Government

Blough:

In surtaxes about three, and the two together
about five.

Sullivan:

Five billion three.

H.M.Jr:

Five, what?

Blough:

Around five billion dollars.

White:

Where did you get that figure of thirteen billion

Blough:

Nobody told me that figure, but I took the estimates and worked back from them and that is
the estimate as of '41.

White:

What were they in 1940? We already have some

roughly.

going to collect in taxes?

for '41 income?

indication of the percentage of increase. Do

you remember what they were in '40?
Blough:

H.M.Jr:

No, I don't recall.
Well, Harry, for my purposes whether it is thirteen or thirteen and a half --

- 15 -

17

White:

No, I thought it was something like sixteen.

H.M.Jr:

Well, again --

Blough:

You see, intercorporate dividends are excluded

here, eighty-five percent of intercorporate
dividends.

White:

I will check up on that.

H.M.Jr:

How much do you think, Roy - make a guess for

Blough:

That it is going to be in '42?

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

Blough:

I would much rather George guessed. He has

H.M.Jr:

All right, George, give us a guess.

Haas:

It is just wild.

H.M.Jr:

All right, I love to see you go wild (laughter).

White:

But not over your figures.

Haas:

Sixteen.

Blough:

'42.

some basis to guess. I don't.

That is what I would say. That was one of my

wildest moments.

H.M.Jr:

Well, why wouldn't it be reasonable if there was

Paul:

Well, we interpolate one other question there.

H.M.Jr:

Supposing we took ten of it?

Paul:

Before we get to that question, Mr. Secretary,
could we ask what the corporate profits were

sixteen billion that we took ten of it?

- 16 -

18

in, say, 1939? I would like to see how much
they brought up in relation to what we pay.
White:

I can quickly get those figures.

Blough:

We have them. I just don't have them with me.

H.M.Jr:

I am starting in with a trend of thought. We
ought to get what the figures are, going back,

say, four or five years, and an estimate next

year, how much the Federal Government is taking
each year, and the percentage, see, and then

supposing we said, 'Well, why shouldn't we

take two thirds?" I talked about a hundred
per cent. Supposing we talk about two thirds.
Paul:

Well, the more they have gone up on account

of the defense effort, the more we are privileged to take.

H.M.Jr:

Well, if we took two thirds and sixteen was

Paul:

That is right.

H.M.Jr:

I had to answer myself.

white:

You don't have --

H.M.Jr:

Excuse me, just one minute, Harry. You don't
have to go down and take it out of the working

right, we would get the extra five billion
right there.

man's pocket. That is what I was trying to get
at.

White:

If it were properly distributed among corporations, otherwise - and that is the assumption

I take it, that is implicit in the very thing

you are examining, because you could distribute
that additional burden in such a way that you
would seriously hurt business enterprise and
so on.

- 16 -

18

in, say, 1939? I would like to see how much
they brought up in relation to what we pay.
White:

I can quickly get those figures.

Blough:

We have them. I just don't have them with me.

H.M.Jr:

I am starting in with a trend of thought. We
ought to get what the figures are, going back,
say, four or five years, and an estimate next

year, how much the Federal Government is taking
each year, and the percentage, see, and then
supposing we said, 'Well, why shouldn't we

take two thirds?" I talked about a hundred
per cent. Supposing we talk about two thirds.
Paul:

Well, the more they have gone up on account

of the defense effort, the more we are privi-

leged to take.
H.M.Jr:

Well, if we took two thirds and sixteen was

Paul:

That is right.

H.M.Jr:

I had to answer myself.

white:

You don't have --

H.M.Jr:

Excuse me, just one minute, Harry. You don't
have to go down and take it out of the working

right, we would get the extra five billion
right there.

man's pocket. That is what I was trying to get
at.

White:

If it were properly distributed among corporations, otherwise - and that is the assumption

I take it, that is implicit in the very thing

you are examining, because you could distribute
that additional burden in such a way that you
would seriously hurt business enterprise and
so on.

- 17 -

19

H.M.Jr:

Well, following his chart there, you would only
have to apply it to about five per cent of
the corporations to get it.

White:

That is right.
You could pick up another five billion and
not taking it out of the working man's

H.M.Jr:

pocket.

White:

That would still be a far cry from the English
practice.

H.M.Jr:

It would be a far cry from"Six per cent" Morgenthau, too.

blough:

No, you would get more money under that than
you would under the "Six per cent" Morgenthau,

if you left all under six per cent to the cor-

poration. There isn't that much above six per
cent.

H.M.Jr:

You mean I couldn't get five billion on top of

Blough:

Well, I would say offhand that if you took
six per cent across the board of the corporations
of America, there wouldn't be five billion above

six if I left them six?

that.

H.M.Jr:

Wait a minute, if I took everything above six
per cent net --

Blough:

I seriously doubt whether you would get five

H.M.Jr:

What I am asking for is ten, gross.

Blough:

Well, I mean additional money.

White:

Well, you are dealing there with facts we can

billion dollars.

easily check.

20
- 18 H.M.Jr:

Well, I would like to explore that. I would
like to explore if we wanted to take sixtysix and two thirds of the net earnings of all

the corporations in America, how much would we

get, that is proposal number one.

Proposal number two, that we left all the

corporations six per cent net, how much would

we get?
White:

You see, one of the difficulties and that is

the advantage of going through these charts,

is that if you use a flat rate of that kind,

you severely penalize a company like General

Motors, which is very efficient, and you give
an inversely proportional break to the United
States Steel Company, which has an enormous

capitalization, much of which is either in
effect water, or inefficiency.
H.M.Jr:

And the management has been grossly inefficient.

White:

Well, it is probably that. They claim they
have no water in it, but it is a combination.

H.M.Jr:

No, I am talking about management.

White:

So that there would have to be some kind of an
allowance in some way made for that.

H.M.Jr:

but Harry, no one has ever given me the
figure on my formula. Supposing we took - supposing we took everything over and above six per
cent. What would we get?

White:

Well, they ought to be able to give you that.

Blough:

Yes.

"hite:

Assuming that business remains the same and you

didn't interfere with business, initiative and
so on, it is a simple computation.

- 19 -

21

Blough:

Those assumptions, of course, are a little --

White:

Of course.

Paul:

I am a little puzzled by one thought, why
we are so afraid of penalizing corporate
management when we don't hesitate to penalize
individuals.

White:

Could you expand that?

Paul:

We put the surtaxes up in accordance with a
person's income when he is an individual,

Irrespective of what --

White:

Irrespective of what education and ability he
had to begin with.

Paul:

That is right, presumably on the general average
that the more income, the better manager he is,
but when we come to corporations, we get strangely
tender hearted.

White:

We treat capital a little bit different than

H.M.Jr:

Well, for me - of course it most likely is
boring to you people, but it is the only way

we do human ability. It is a curious phenomenon.
I can work. I have opened up another avenue
of thought as far as I am concerned.

White:

This is going to the fundamentals. It is very
significant.

H.M.Jr:

For me, I am opening up this stuff leaf by leaf.

Groves:

May I offer a suggestion to think about in
connection with this heavier taxes on
corporations?

H.M.Jr:

Please do.

- 20 -

Groves:

22

It occurs to me that it might have a bad effect

from the standpoint of inflation, at least

it is something to be considered in two respects.

One, that on Government contracts some of the
tax comes back to the Federal Government because

the bargain of the contract itself and the price
of materials in the seller's market I think
depend very considerably upon the corporation's
cost in which they put some of these taxes.

And the figures, I think, will indicate that
as the tax expands the profit expands, and
it keeps a jump ahead. Some of it is circular
and comes back on the Government.

The other thing, particularly if the corporation tax is levied on a percentage basis, the
corporation gets to have so little equity in
its marginal dollar that it tends to get indifferent as to costs, and that is very favorable
to an inflationary cycle, and they tend to
give everybody what he wants and then add it

to the bill, particularly if you are dealing

with the Government, both of which tend to

aggravate inflation. I don't know how serious

they would be.
H.M.Jr:

Well, let me ask you a question. Let's be

specific on this thing. If I understand what
you are talking about. I don't know whether

you have read the Trammel report on the cost
of the Army cantonments.

Groves:

I haven't, sir.

H.M.Jr:

Well, I don't know how many here have read it.

It is not a very long report. It will take you
maybe half an hour. Take that report. As I

remember it, the cantonments - this was a
year ago last summer, it was early - cost three
hundred million dollars more than the estimates.
Now, I don't know what form the contract was,

23
- 21 -

but it goes into what kind of a contract,
whether it was a cost plus or whatever it was.
It is all in this Trammel report, and apply
this question that you are raising to that.

Now, would it have helped or would it have hurt?
I mean, they were grossly wasteful, you see,

but did the question of taxation enter into
the thing?

Groves:

It would have been more wasteful if there had
been higher taxes, is the question.

H.M.Jr:

What you are getting to is this. I mean,

you are a tax man, but you also have a broad

conception. I just wonder that you are raising
this question. Isn't it possibly - I mean,

we have never done it, and the Bureau of the
Budget hasn't done it, but that doesn't mean

that I shouldn't. In all these talks, why

shouldn't I raise - if we once made up our mind the question of the way these Army and Navy
contracts are working.

Groves:

Very good. I think it is very important.

H.M.Jr:

As a member of Senator Byrd's committee, I have

a perfect right to raise that question. You
and I can sit here and maybe miss a billion
dollars or two, because we are fearful that the

Army contractors are going to be wasteful, but
after reading the Trammel report, my own feeling I would like you to read it and come back at

me just as hard as you want - please come back
just as though we are in class, come back
just as hard as you want, but my own feeling

is that the tax thing plays a very small part
in it. Now, I may be wrong in it, but just
take that, see, and see that the gross waste -

I mean, these Army Engineer people don't seem

to have any - they have gone just hog-wild.

- 22 -

24

Sullivan:

Excess profits wasn't written at the time most

H.M.Jr:

All right, read the one in today's newspaper,

of those contracts were awarded.
the Trammel report.

White:

That is further support.

H.M.Jr:

Read that one they have done today. They are

doing a swell job, but they make their reports
and then nothing happens, and the Bureau of

the Budget votes six or seven billion dollars
to the Army at a time and they keep right on
writing the same kind of contracts.
Sullivan:

Jere Cooper --

White:

There is a reason, Mr. Secretary, why you can

demand that. Not only because you are a member

of the Byrd committee, which I think is secondary,
but because you are examining tax programs in

which one of the important objections which is
always raised is this very real objection which
has been raised, that as you reduce the net
income that accrues to the companies, they
become more wasteful in their expenditures,
that they increase wages more easily, spend

more in advertising and so on, and isn't the
answer to that not the inauguration of a tax
program so much as the direction which you
are suggesting, a more careful examination and
more power over the contracts?
H.M.Jr:

That is what I am saying. What I am saying
is this. Professor Groves says, "Well now,
wait a minute, Morgenthau, don't do this because
of the tendency of making the contractor more

wasteful. I say he is so wasteful now there
is something the matter. There is something
rotten in Denmark. Let's take a look at it.
If we find they are being wasteful - here we are

- 23 -

25

trying to sell a billion and a half for the
Government and we might be able to save five
or ten billion dollars if the contracts were
written right.
Sullivan:

That is right. Ten per cent of your non-defense
expenditures is almost nothing. Ten per cent
of the other is a lot of money.

Foley:

Have the property supervised.

Sullivan:

Ten per cent of your non-defense expenditures

is about six hundred million dollars, a drop
in the bucket. Ten per cent of your defense
contracts runs into some real money.

Groves:

I was just going to say that there has been
a lot of talk about saving on non-defense, and

very little talk about saving in the defense
part of the Budget. I suppose it is hard to

gauge where the money is wasted there in definite
quantitative terms, but it seems that some of

H.M.Jr:

the attention should be given it. I doubt
if there is any country in the world that
gets less for its military dollar than we do.
Here is a funny thing. I heard the President
of the United States talk about the Assistant
Secretary of the Navy Roosevelt and what he
did and how he bought when he was Assistant
Secretary, and that nobody drove a closer

bargain and he keeps telling about this Charleston, West Virginia armor plate factory and what
it did and how they were able - the Navy can
take it over, at the end, grease it up and keep

it there until they needed it. But none of
the contracts are written that way today.

Sullivan:

That is right.

H.M.Jr:

We build a building for them and the company can

say at the end, "Well, we would like to have

it," or "We wouldn't.' For instance, what kind

- 24 -

26

of care are they taking of our buildings which
the taxpayers paid for, and all the rest of
that stuff?
Sullivan:

I think they are taking pretty good care of

it, Mr. Secretary, because when the show is

over you are going to find out that they
are going to take those buildings over themselves and junk their old stuff.
H.M.Jr:

Well, Groves, you have brought up a new line
of thought, and I would like to have somebody,

John, explore the question of contracts, I

mean, somebody who - I should think in Internal
Revenue could take a look at how these contracts
are written. They must have begun to review
them for '40 now, haven't they?
Who does that in Internal Revenue?
Cann:

We are going to read some of them, Mr. Secretary,

in the field, but we haven't had any report or

any information which would allow us to formulate
any opinion about that.

H.M.Jr:

Could you speed that up a little bit?

Cann:

Yes, sir.

H.M.Jr:

Couldn't you concentrate on that?

Cann:

We will look into that, yes, sir.

- 25 -

27

H.M.Jr:

Well, how would it be if, for instance, we

Cann:

I think we could.

H.M.Jr:

I mean, if we are going to do twelve steel

say we want a report on twelve steel companies?
Why couldn't we get their government contracts
and how they were written and have the whole
picture on one group at a time?

companies, why not look into their government
contracts and the forms of them, you see, and

the profits and then what they charged off.
You have got their nineteen -Cann:

Well, that information would ordinarily be gone

into as part of the regular investigation and

might not be recorded, but I mean it would be
examined.

H.M.Jr:

Well, why not, if we are going to do the twelve,
let's take a look at their government contracts
and particularly as to how much they charge off
to unusual - you know what I am after.

Cann:

Yes, sir.

H.M.Jr:

And in twelve steel companies you would get
Army and Navy, too, wouldn't you?

Cann:

Yes, sir.

H.M.Jr:

And Shipping Board.

Cann:

Yes, we would get the Shipping Board.

H.M.Jr:

I wish you would do that. Get the names from
Blough, which ones they are going to be. And

can't you speed that up a little bit?

Cann:

Yes, sir.

- 26 -

28

H.M.Jr:

Couldn't I know maybe early next week, something?

Cann:

Well now, that - I realize what you are after.

H.M.Jr:

Well, look, you will just have to. How many

men have you got who know how to examine a

corporation income tax return?

Cann:

We have enough to do that.

H.M.Jr:

How many have you got?

Cann:

Several thousand.

H.M.Jr:

All right, put as many hundred on this as
necessary. I don't care how many you put on.
Put on a couple of hundred, if necessary.

Cann:

Of course, we could get out a preliminary
report to get the precise information you want.

H.M.Jr:

But you have got to move fast. Put a couple

Cann:

All right.

H.M.Jr:

I don't care how many it takes but I am not
going to sit around and - I mean, I always get

of hundred men on it.

this stuff about two years too late.

White:

Doesn't that take only one aspect of the case
that you are interested in, Mr. Secretary? They

only go into their income. But aren't you also
interested in the contract to see whether they
are overpaid on various things? Do they have
men who do that? Do you have men who are able
to take the contract -Cann:

I would say our scope of investigation would
go into the examine tion of --

White:

Whether or not the price they paid for particular

- 27 -

29

commodities and so on is a fair price under
those conditions and whether the labor costs
and all the rest are reasonable, whether the

advertising costs and all that --

Sullivan:

Cann:

I think Reiling, Herman Reiling of Ed's shop

and Charlie Appel of Tim Mooney's shop can

give you a pretty good picture of it.
Of course, 80 far it is an element of cost
that enters in to the determination of profit
and we examine it.

H.M.Jr:

That is the answer to White.

White:

What do you mean?

Cann:

Well, we will examine it, of course, as to the
purpose of verifying the amount spent. Now,
as to --

White:

Let me ask a specific question. Here is steel

billed at thirty-two dollars a ton. The

arithmetic is all right and you know they paid

thirty-two dollars a ton.

Cann:

That is as far as we go.

White:

That is right. Do any of your men examine
whether that is an inter-corporate arrangement,

whether thirty-two dollars is a market price,
whether they couldn't have bought it for sixteen

Cann:

If you are saying that, was there any indication

of manipulation between affiliated companies,
yes, we would be expected to go into that.
White:

Or whether there was --

Cann:

But as to whether that was too great a price or
too little a price, that wouldn't be any concern
of a revenue agent.

- 28 -

30

White:

That is why I think they might also have
other procurement - there are so many angles --

Cann:

In other words, Mr. Secretary, if the United
States Government elected to buy steel at

thirty-two dollars and it should have paid only
twenty-eight dollars, the revenue agent wouldn't

be concerned in that.
H.M.Jr:

No, and from my end, if I could get what I
want at the start, what White is talking about
is something that is so broad that I would like

to think about it, but certainly you could
get a lot and I don't know how we could do it
or where we would do it and so forth, but at
least I am not putting it aside. I would like
to think about it.

Groves:

Couldn't we get a little quantitative information
as to how these government contracts are let,
by bid or by individual choice, and how much

those cost, and profit margins? I would be
interested in knowing.

White:

You see, Mr. Secretary, I happen to know one
case at the other end.

H.M.Jr:

Can you hold your thought a minute? Do you
want to say something, John?

Sullivan:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Hold your thought a minute.

Sullivan:

We have the report of the Vinson Investigating

Committee. It is just about ready for release.

It may be out today or tomorrow. They had

exactly the thing you are talking about. They

had all kinds of men in the field, in the offices
of these steel companies and ship building
companies, investigating the contracts from the

very point of view you are speaking of. I think

- 29 -

31

that might be a very good jumping off point
and furnish you with excellent leads to pursue.
H.M.Jr:

Well, let's give it all to Norman. I take it

Kades:

Mr. Secretary, you have a report on the cost

that is what he is here for. Kades, don't
burst a blood vessel. (Laughter)

of steel, made by the Procurement Division in

1939, a study of about five volumes. My

suggestion is that Procurement be asked to

bring that up to date. That would show the
comparison between the cost in the five years

preceding 1939 and now.
H.M.Jr:
White:

Chuck, write me a letter on that to Cliff Mack

and I will sign it. Harry, you had one.
It is all on those lines. I happen to know

somebody who sells some stuff to the government

and I know they are selling it at tremendous

profits. The percentage of profits would

run ridiculous sums, a hundred and twenty-five

to fifty percent. The degree of competition is
mitigated by the fact that there are certain
special characteristics of the thing, but you
could examine that income statement and it is
perfect. There is no attempt to defraud or to
avoid, but if you once go behind that into
what they are doing, that is where you will find
a terrific waste, although I do think that also
your study might reveal questions of depreciation
and obsolescence and salaries and so on.

H.M.Jr:

But Harry, my own guess is, I may be wrong, we

will find so much when we take a look at this -

now, I am not saying we shouldn't do it. I think
we should do it, but I don't want to wait here
until next May to get a report. But let's get
started on the thing and if you (Cann) are the
man to do it - that is what you are here for,

- 30 -

32

I take it. Is that right?
Sullivan:

That is right.

H.M.Jr:

So anybody that has any suggestions, turn them

in. I am not saying, Harry, we shouldn't, but

it is just -White:

It is a much larger task.

H.M.Jr:

Well, I cable to England and I find out what

the Inter-Parliamentary Committee in England
is doing. They have got a continuous committee

sitting there. I want Groves to know about it.
I heard they are doing a wonderful job in

England on the cost of government, with a
continuous committee sitting.

I cabled the Treasury man in London to let me
know what this committee is doing on all costs
so we had this in mind, but to come back to

the original thing, what I was asking for is,
I don't want to sidestep a corporate tax because
I claim that is going to make a company that is
already highly wasteful a little more wasteful.
Does that fit in all right with you?
Groves:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

I mean, I think we should do both.

Sullivan:

I don't think Harold was trying to imply that
we couldn't go any further. I think he was
raising the point that there is a point beyond
which you can't safely go. Wasn't that what
you had in mind rather than that we couldn't
go any further?

Groves:

Well, I didn't mean to suggest any definite
conclusion but merely that that be weighted in
the problem, is all. I haven't made up my
mind what we ought to do about the situation.

- 31 -

33

I merely raised the point that something
should be considered.

H.M.Jr:

Well now, what we have done this morning, we

are going to have Cann go into this thing, and
he is going to get the list and anybody that
has any suggestions on how to get - the whole
question of how much the thing has been padded

will send it in to you, see.
Cann:

All right, sir.

H.M.Jr:

And you are going to get enough men on these

Klotz:

That was a good pun.

White:

Was that intentional?

H.M.Jr:

I didn't realize it until I said it.

Paul:

Mr. Secretary, I think there is another --

H.M.Jr:

The best ones are always the ones you don't
realize.

Paul:

I think there is another important aspect of
Groves' point which has nothing to do with
defense. I am always hearing it said that if

ten or twelve steel companies, on their '40
returns, to see what they are doing. You can
use a can opener on them. (Laughter) And I
expect results.

the tax is too high, all incentive is gone,

and this applies not only to defense but people
become wasteful, say, in department stores
and completely non-defense businesses. I am

wondering if we could get at any data there to
check the good faith of that statement, because
it doesn't seem to me that people are going
to become too terribly wasteful and do so much

prestige advertising if the corporate rate is
sixty percent.

- 32 -

34

H.M.Jr:

Well, would you give --

Paul:

I don't know how you get at that, but that is
the argument that is going to be made all along
the line.

Sullivan:

I would like to bring a man here to do a study
on increased corporate advertising. It is
perfectly evident that there is a tremendous

amount of money being squandered on advertising

in ordinary periodicals, purely defense products.

You can't pick up the Saturday Evening Post

or Collier's or any of those popular magazines
without seeing full page ads for Lockheed and
Pratt and Whitney. Now, that money is being
paid for a hundred cents on the dollar by the
War Department and the Navy Department, and I

think It ought to be stopped.

White:

Absolutely.

Sullivan:

I would like to start a study on that.

White:

Isn't that the answer to what Groves and Randolph
Paul are saying, that these wastes- and there
are many of these - should merely encourage the

taxer to find ways of eliminating them. It is
easy to limit high salaries, limit the amounts
of advertising to some figure, in which you
block those avenues of waste;and there is just

one further point I would like to add. You

remember, Mr. Secretary, when you spoke of that

six percent tax, one of the important reasons

that you advanced in favor of its feasibility
was this, that if you did tax everything above
six percent, then you could be tough with the
question of increasing wage rates and labor,
and that is one of the avenues they claim is

wasteful.

They say, "Oh, well, if a man only gets six

- 33 -

35

percent out of it, he doesn't care what he
pays for labor," but at that point the government
can step in and care because it comes out of
its pocket.

H.M.Jr:

We ought to care now.

Cann:

Mr. Secretary, isn't it true that the Navy or

the Army have their own trained representatives

on the job at these particular spots also
checking these costs?

H.M.Jr:

I don't know.

Cann:

I think they do.

H.M.Jr:

It was my impression that they are simply there
on production, as inspectors.

Foley:

I think you are right about that. They don't

have the same kind of inspectors that we had
at PWA, where there was an audit of every cost,
and where there was a disallowance of items

that were exorbitant.

H.M.Jr:

I never heard of it.

White:

Anyway, so many of them joined the Electric
Boat Company afterward that they are not --

H.M.Jr:

It is the other way around, Harry. You get
retired from the Navy and then join the Electric
Boat Company.

White:

So many of them have joined the Electric Boat
Company lately that they are sympathetic.

H.M.Jr:

In this investigation on advertising, just

remember that if a man spends his money to
advertise Defense Savings Bonds, that is exempt.

- 34 -

36

Foley:

I think they ought to look at expense accounts
in advertising too.

Paul:

That is a good form of prestige advertising.

H.M.Jr:

And when Bendix goes on the air for the

Treasury Hour.

Sullivan:

Well, there is a man in Chicago I have talked

with quite a bit on this very thing, and I
think I am going to, with your permission, write
to him and ask him to come on here and let you

have a talk with him and see if we want to take
him on.

H.M.Jr:

That is all right. Well, this for me has been
a very profitable morning. If you could
continue this conversation --

Sullivan:

Do you want to see Ed and Joe O'Connell and

myself and Harry White on that regulation now?
H.M.Jr:

Not now. I have got press. I can see you men

Sullivan:

Very well.

H.M.Jr:

When do you want to see me again on this tax

at 3:30.

thing? When will you be ready? Sullivan and

who?

Blough:

We have a lot of stuff we haven't talked about
yet.

H.M.Jr:

Who is coming?

Sullivan:

You asked Foley and O'Connell and this morning
Harry White said he would like to be heard on

it too.

H.M.Jr:

On which thing?

- 35 -

37

Sullivan:

The exempt corporations furnishing information
on receipts and expenditures.

H.M.Jr:

Harry is a hard man to keep out. (Laughter)

Foley:

You ought to have Chuck Kades too, Mr. Secretary.

Sullivan:

Yes, I think Chuck should be here.

H.M.Jr:

They are a kind of team over there.

Paul:

When can we talk about the plan we discussed

after the last meeting, or have you talked

about that?
H.M.Jr:

We talked about it but we didn't get very far.
Are you going to be here tomorrow?

Paul:

I can't be tomorrow. I can be all next week
but not tomorrow. That is why I wanted to see
if we were going to have another meeting on it
today.

Sullivan:

Well, I think we had better because we are

not in any position on that to bother the
Secretary. I think after this meeting is over

we all had better go down to my room and take

our coats off and go to work on it.

H.M.Jr:

Well, this meeting of Sullivan and Foley and

Sullivan:

all the rest of these fellows shouldn't take
more than fifteen minutes, should it?
I shouldn't think 80.

H.M.Jr:

So if you tax boys want to come in after 3:30,

I will be available. I will keep it open the
rest of the afternoon. I will keep the rest of
the afternoon open.

Sullivan:

All right.

- 36 -

38

H.M.Jr:

How is that?

Sullivan:

I don't know that we will have any conclusions
for you.

H.M.Jr:

But I will just hold it open.
All right.

Sullivan:

39

Computation of tax liability on 1940 income
under present law

General Motors Corporation

Return filed on a consolidated basis, for the calendar
year.
tax.

The income method is used in computing the excess profits

Computation of excess profits tax
1. Net income

2. Adjustments in arriving at excess profits
net income

3. Excess profits credit and specific
exemption

4. Adjusted excess profits

5. Excess profits tax
6. Balance of net income, after E.P.T., subject

to normal tax and surtax
7. Normal tax
8. Surtax
9. Total income and excess profits taxes
10. Total income and excess profits taxes as a
percent of net income

Invested capital credit

Average earnings credit

Business:

$347,250,183

- 11,172,044
217,770,012
118,308,127
70,938,876
276,311,307
66,314,714
19,341,541
156,595,131
45.1%

(Data not available)

$217,765,012

Manufacture and sale of automobiles and parts, etc.

40

COMPUTATION OF TAX LIABILITY
ON 1940 INCOME UNDER PRESENT LAW
GENERAL MOTORS CORP.
Income Method
Net Income $347.3 mil. Adjusted Excess Profits $118.3 mil.
E.P. Credit $217.8 mil. Normal Tax Net Income $276.3 mil.

I. Computation of Excess Profits Tax
100%

100%

80%
80%

60%

60%

E.P.Credit
$217.8

Adjustments

40%

40%

-$11.2

E.P. Tax
$70.9
20%

20%

0

0

40

80

120

160

200

240

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS

0

280

320

347.3
Net Income

II. Computation of Income Tax and Balance after Tax
100%

100%

80%

80%

Balance after Tax
$190.7

60%

60%

E.P. Tax
$70.9
40%

40%

Surtax $19.3
20%

20%

Normal Tax $66.3
0

0

0

40

80

120

160

200

240

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS

280

320

347.3
Net Income

41
Computation of tax liability on 1940 income
under present law

Glenn L. Martin Company

Return filed on an unconsolidated basis, for the calendar
year.

The income (growth) method is used in computing the excess

profits tax.

Computation of excess profits tax
1. Net income

2. Adjustments in arriving at excess profits net inc.
3. Excess profits credit and specific exemption
4. Adjusted excess profits
5. Excess profits tax
6. Balance of net income, after E.P.T., subject to
normal tax and surtax
7. Normal tax

8. Surtax
9. Total income and excess profits taxes
10. Total income & excess profits taxes as a percent
of net income

Invested capital credit

6,672,395
1,601,375
466,818

3,750,936
44.9%

(Data not supplied)

Average earnings credit

Business:

$8,355,138
- 500
5,473,400
2,881,238
1,682,743

Aircraft and parts manufacturing

$5,468,400

12

COMPUTATION OF TAX LIABILITY

ON 1940 INCOME UNDER PRESENT LAW
GLEN L. MARTIN Co.
Income (Growth) Method
Net Income $ 8.4 mil
E. P. Credit $ 5.5 mil

Adjusted Excess Profits $ 2.9 mil.
Normal Tax Net Income $ 6.7 mil.

I. Computation of Excess Profits Tax
100%

100%

Adjustments

80%

80%

$.001

60%

60%

E.P. Credit $5.5
40%

40%

E.P. Tax $1.7
20%

20%

0

0

2

4

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS
3

5

8.4

7

6

Net Income

II. Computation of Income Tax and Balance after Tax
100%

100%

80%

80%

Balance after Tax
$4.6

60%

60%

E.P. Tax $1.7
40%

40%

Surtax $0.5
20%

20%

Normal Tax #1.6
0

0

I

0

2

3

4

5

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS

6

7

8.4

Net Income

43
Computation of tax liability on 1940 income
under present law

Curtiss-Wright Corporation

year.

Return filed on an unconsolidated basis, for calendar

The invested capital method is used in computing the
excess profits tax.
Computation of excess profits tax
1. Net income

$ 26,028,184

2. Adjustments in arriving at excess profits net inc. -

3. Excess profits credit and specific exemption
4. Adjusted excess profits
5. Excess profits tax
6. Balance of net income, after E.P.T., subject to

normal tax and surtax
7. Normal tax
8. Surtax
9. Total income and excess profits taxes
10. Total income & excess profits taxes as a
percent of net income

369,117

7,995,763
17,668,304
10,554,982

15,473,202
3,713,568
1,082,874
15,351,425
59.0%

Invested capital credit
Amount of invested capital

$113,439,465

$ 5,000,000 at 8% 400,000
108,439,465 at 7% 7,590,763

Total credit
Average earnings credit

Business: Manufacturers of aircraft.

7,990,763

2,472,258

COMPUTATION OF TAX LIABILITY

ON 1940 INCOME UNDER PRESENT LAW
CURTISS-WRIGHT CORP.
Invested Capital Method

Net Income $26.lmil Adjusted Excess Profits $17.7 mil.
E. P. Credit $ 8.0 mil. Normal Tax Net Income $15.5 mil.

I. Computation of Excess Profits Tax

100%

100%

80%

E.P. Credit

80%

$8.0

60%

60%

40%

40%

Adjustments
$0.4

E.P. Tax $10.6
20%

20%

0
0

12

9

18

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS

6

o

15

3

21

24

26.1

Net Income

II. Computation of Income Tax and Balance after Tax
100%

100%

80%

80%

Balance after Tax
$10.7

60%

60%

E.P. Tax $10.6
40%

40%

Surtax $1.1
20%

20%

Normal Tax $3.7
0

0

3

12

15

18

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS
9

6

0

21

24

26.1

Net Income

45
Computation of tax liability on 1940 income
under present law

The Coca-Cola Company

Return filed on an unconsolidated basis, for the calendar year.
The income (growth) method is used in computing the excess

profits tax.

Computation of excess profits tax
1. Net income
3

$35,818,517

2. Adjustments in arriving at excess profits net inc.
3. Excess profits credit and specific exemption
4. Adjusted excess profits
5. Excess profits tax
6. Balance of net income, after E.P.T., subject to
normal tax and surtax

7. Normal tax
8. Surtax
9. Total income and excess profits taxes
10. Total income and excess profits taxes as a percent
of net income

- 256,558

30,831,287
4,730,672
2,792,403
33,026,114
7,926,267
2,311,578
13,030,248
36.4%

Invested capital credit (Data not supplied.)

Average earnings credit

Business: Manufacture and sale of a soft-drink syrup under
trade-mark "Coca-Cola."

$30,826,287

16

COMPUTATION OF TAX LIABILITY

ON 1940 INCOME UNDER PRESENT LAW
COCA COLA Co.
Income Method
Net Income $ 35.8mil. Adjusted Excess Profits $4.7mil.
E.P. Credit $30.8mil. Normal Tax Net Income $33.0mil.

I. Computation of Excess Profits Tax

100%

100%

80%

80%

60%

60%

E.P.Credit

Adjustments
$0.3

$30.8

40%

40%

E.P.
Tax
$2.8
20%

20%

0
o

4

o

12

16

20

24

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS

8

28

35.8

32

Net Income

II. Computation of Income Tax and Balance after Tax
100%

100%

80%

80%

Balance after tax
$22.8

60%

60%

E.P.
Tax

$28
40%

40%

Surtax $2.3
20%

20%

Normal Tax $7.9
0
0

0

4

8

12

16

20

24

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS

28

32

35.8

Net Income

47
Computation of tax liability on 1940 income
under present law

American Car and Foundry Company

Return filed on a consolidated basis, for period ended 4-30-41.
The invested capital method is used in computing the excess

profits tax.

Computation of excess profits tax
1. Net income

2. Adjustments in arriving at excess profits net inc.
3. Excess profits credit and specific exemption
4. Adjusted excess profits
5. Excess profits tax
6. Balance of net income, after E.P.T., subject to

normal tax and surtax
7. Normal tax
8. Surtax
9. Total income and excess profits tax
10. Total income and excess profits taxes as a
percent of net income

$6,983,751

+ 16,931
6,612,535
388,147
192,481

6,791,270
1,629,905
475,139
2,297,525
32.9%

Invested capital credit
Amount of invested capital
$5,000,000 at 8% $ 400,000
88,679,072 at 7% 6,207,535

Total credit

Average earnings credit (Data not supplied)
Business: Manufacturers of railway cars, supplies, etc.

$93,679,072
6,607,535

48

COMPUTATION OF TAX LIABILITY
ON 1940 INCOME UNDER PRESENT LAW
AMERICAN CAR AND FOUNDRY
Invested Capital Method

Net Income $6.98 mil. Adjusted Excess Profits $0.39 mil.
E.P. Credit $6.61 mil. Normal Tax Net Income $6.79 mil.

I. Computation of Excess Profits Tax
100%

100%

80%

80%

60%

60%

E.P. Credit

Adjustments
$0.02

$6.6/

40%

40%

E.P.
20%

Tax

20%

$0.19

0

0

I

0

4

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS
3

2

6.98

6

5

Net Income

II. Computation of Income Tax and Balance after Tax
100%

100%

80%

80%

Balance after Tax

E.P. Tax
$0.19

$4.68

60%

60%

40%

40%

Surtax $0.48
20%

20%

Normal Tax $1.63
0

0

I

0

4

5

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS
2

3

6

6.98
Net Income

49
Computation of tax liability on 1940 income
under present law

U. S. Steel Corporation

Return filed on a consolidated basis, for the calendar
year.

The invested capital method is used in computing the
excess profits tax.
Computation of excess profits tax

normal tax and surtax
7. Normal tax
8. Surtax
9. Total income and excess profits taxes
10. Total income & excess profits taxes as a

+ 2,791,645
162,154,284
-

2. Adjustments in arriving at excess profits net inc.
3. Excess profits credit and specific exemption
4. Adjusted excess profits
5. Excess profits tax
6. Balance of net income, after E.P.T., subject to

$102,049,526

-

1. Net income

102,049,526
24,491,886
7,143,217
31,635,103

percent of net income

31%

Invested capital credit
Amount of invested capital

2,315,704,056

$500,000 at 8% $ 400,000
2,310,704,056 at 7% 161,749,284

Total credit

162,149,284

Average earnings credit (Data not supplied)

Business: Holding corporation owning stocks and securities of
various companies engaged in the manufacture of iron
and steel products and the production and transportation
of necessary raw materials

50

COMPUTATION OF TAX LIABILITY

ON 1940 INCOME UNDER PRESENT LAW
U.S. STEEL CORP.
Invested Capital Method
Net Income $102.0 mil. Adjusted Excess Profits -$57.3 mil.
E.P. Credit $162.2 mil. Normal Tax Net Income $102.0 mil.

I. Computation of Excess Profits Tax

100%

100%

80%
80%

60%

60%

Excess of

Adjustments

E. P.Credit

E.P.Credit

+$2.8

$162.2

-$57.3

40%

40%

20%

20%

0

0

-57.3

-40

-20

40

20

0

102.0
Net Income

80

60

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS

II. Computation of Income Tax and Balance after Tax
100%

100%

80%

80%

Balance after tax

60%

$70.4

60%

40%

40%

Surtax $7.1
20%

20%

Normal Tax $24.5
0
0

0

20

40

60

80

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS

102.0
Net Income

51

Computation of tax liability on 1940 income
under present law

Bethlehem Steel Corp.

Return filed on a consolidated basis, for the

calendar year.

The invested capital method is used in computing the

excess profits tax.

Computation of excess profits tax
1. Net income

2. Adjustments in arriving at excess profits net inc.
3. Excess profits credit and specific exemption

4. Adjusted excess profits net income

5. Excess profits tax
6. Balance of net income, after E.P.T., subject to
normal tax and surtax

7. Normal tax
8. Surtax
9. Total income and excess profits taxes
10. Total income & excess profits taxes as a percent
of net income

.

$ 63,246,906
5,200,659
42,273,328
26,174,237
15,462,981 1
47,783,925
11,468,142
3,344,625
30,275,748
47.9%

Invested capital credit
Amount of invested capital
400,000
$ 5,000,000 at 8%

$ 603,118,975

598,118,975 at 7% 41,868,328

Total credit

Average earnings credit

42,268,328

19,564,672

Business: Manufacturers of iron and steel products

1

After allowing for payment of $195,561 to U. S. Maritime Commission
as excessive profits.

52

COMPUTATION OF TAX LIABILITY
ON 1940 INCOME UNDER PRESENT LAW
BETHLEHEM STEEL CORP.

Invested Capital Method

Net Income $63.2 mil Adjusted Excess Profits $26.2 mil
E. P. Credit $42.3 mil

Normal Tax Net Income $47.8 mil

I. Computation of Excess Profits Tax
100%

100%

80%

80%

60%

60%

E.P. Credit

Pay't. to
Maritime

$42.3

Comm.
$0.2

40%

40%

Adjustments
+$ 5.2

E.P. Tax $15.5
20%

20%

o

10

0

20

30

40

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS

50

63.2
Net Income

II. Computation of Income Tax and Balance after Tax
100%

100%

80%

80%

Balance after Tax
$33.0

0%

60%

E.P. Tax $15.5
40%

40%

Surtax $3.3
20%

20%

0

0

o

10

20

30

40

MILLIONS OF DOLLARS

50

63.2
Net Income

0

53

November 27, 1941
MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY

Subject: Speeding up 1942 income tax collections.
This memorandum is intended briefly to outline a
method of securing during 1942 additional tax collections which may be required for controlling inflation
alternative to the supplementary 15 percent tax. The
plan described below incorporates the withholding

principle in our present tax structure. The essential
idea of the plan is to withhold at the source in 1942
(the year in which taxes on 1941 incomes are payable)
part of the tax on 1942 incomes. This will mean that
in 1942 taxpayers would be paying (1) their 1941 taxes
and (2) part of their 1942 taxes, thus increasing tax

payments in 1942 and reducing purchasing power; but the
additional payments in 1942 would be taxes on 1942
income and would not be a supplementary burden. In

other words, these tax payments will be on account of

tax liabilities already on the statute books, and will
not reflect any additional imposition of tax liability.
There are two methods of accelerating tax collec-

tions, as follows:

1. The first is to collect the 1941 tax liabil-

ities in 1942 in instalments under present law without
change and, in addition, as soon after January 1 as
practicable, to withhold at the source a tax of 10 percent (the basic combined normal and surtax bracket in
the present law) from wages, salaries, bond interest
and dividends. Simultaneously efforts would be made
to induce the advance payment of as much of the rest

of the tax as possible. In 1943 the withholding would
continue and the balance of 1942 tax liabilities would
be paid.

54
2-

2. A second plan for accelerating income tax

collections would be to collect the 1941 tax liabilities

as early as possible in 1942, perhaps in six monthly
installments, beginning February 15 and ending July 15.
Beginning about July 1, the 10 percent first bracket
rate would be withheld on salaries, wages, dividends and

interest in the same manner as indicated in the first
plan except that it might be found desirable to withhold at a higher rate than 10 percent in order to get
a larger proportion of 1942 tax liabilities collected

in 1942. The remaining 1942 tax would be collected in

1943.

Both of these methods involve an element of discrim-

ination in that the recipients of wages, salaries, divi-

dends and bond interest would be obliged to pay their
taxes many months in advance of the recipients of other
types of income and furthermore that the small taxpayer
would be forced to pay a greater proportion of his taxes

in advance than will the larger taxpayer. It may, there-

fore, be necessary to offer an inducement for early payment of that part of the tax liability which is not collected at the source. This may be done by offering a
discount for early payment, perhaps at a level above that
paid by the Government on its recent bond issue. A
preferable alternative might be to impose an additional
tax amounting to perhaps 5 percent of the income tax,
such additional tax to be forgiven with regard to the
withheld portion of the tax and also with regard to advance payments of the remaining tax.

The acceleration of tax collections has several advantages:

1. It constitutes a step in the direction of a system

of current income tax collections. Once established, such
a system would serve two important purposes.

(a) It would make the income tax a more

flexible and a more sensitive instrument of
public policy.
(b) It would better integrate the income
tax with personal budgets.

-3-

55

2. The acceleration of tax collections would permit

the postponement of tax rate increases while providing
the higher collections which may be immediately required
to dampen the inflationary process. Such a postponement
may be desirable because it would furnish a longer period
for studying the needs for further taxes, and also because
of the hostility of the taxpayers to new, higher tax
rates 80 soon after the recent revenue act.

3. The acceleration of tax collections would distribute the additional tax burden in accordance with the
present progressive income tax, and, therefore, would
probably be more equitable than any additional tax (including a flat 15 percent tax withheld at the source)
that might be enacted.

4. Although this plan is simpler than adding a
withholding tax, in that only one tax is imposed, it is
flexible in that the withholding rates may be changed

upward or downward when needed.

5. Politically, the speeding up of tax collections

would probably be more acceptable than the imposition of
a corresponding amount of additional taxes.

The acceleration of tax collections has several
disadvantages:

1. In substance, it is merely a postponement and
not a solution of the problem of legislation to withdraw

more purchasing power from income recipients. It may
leave a bigger tax problem for 1943 if conditions then
demand a further drastic reduction in purchasing power.

2. The speeding up of tax collections, coming at a
time when the recent substantial tax increases are be-

ginning to be felt for the first time, would not obviate
hardships or eliminate adverse public reaction to tax
increases generally.

56
November 27, 1941

Tax on increases in income as a means of preventing

inflation

Several plans for taxing increases in income have been
considered, among them the so-called "Paul plan".

The merits of a tax on increases in income depend, to

a considerable extent, on the specific form of the tax.

The following comments relate in the main to the general
idea of such a tax.

A. Equity
1. Many income increases during the defense period are

more or less windfalls to the individual which are not

necessary in order to get him to do necessary work. The
existence of such windfalls makes people who have not had
increased incomes unwilling to have their standards of living
cut through taxation as long as they see other persons who
have received such windfalls paying no higher taxes on their
incomes.

2. In general, however, a family which has been receiving a certain size income over a period of time is in at

least as good a position to pay taxes on that income as a
family which has been at a lower level of income and has
just received an increase. Furthermore, there are many situations in which increases in income are necessary and desirable and should not be subject to tax, among them the
following:

(a) Where the family has been on relief and the wageearner has just gotten a job again.
(b) Where receiving the increased wage necessitates
moving to a high-cost community, the increase in income may
have been offset by increased living expenses.
(c) Where a person has recently graduated from high
school or college or is just starting up in his profession,
increases in income would be the normal expectation regardless of the defense effort. They may be accompanied by increased responsibilities such as marriage or the birth of
children.

2-

57

3. No way has been found of separating the cases where
increases should be taxed and where increases should not be

taxed. The existence of a great number of increases that
should not be taxed would result in much inequity and hardship from a tax on increased income.

4. In general, the tax on increased incomes would
fall on younger persons to the relative benefit and advantage
of older persons. In view of the fact that the draft also
hits younger persons, the imposition of the heavy tax on increased incomes may appear to concentrate the burden of the
defense effort too much in the younger age groups.

B. Effectiveness in offsetting or preventing inflation
1. A revenue yield from the tax on increases in incomes
would necessarily be smaller than such increases since otherwise the tax would have to be 100 percent of all increases.
Actually, the rate would be much lower than 100 percent and
the tax base would be greatly diminished by exempting the
lower incomes where it appears the principal income increases

are occurring. Accordingly, a tax on increases could not be

expected to offset all the inflationary effects of increases

in incomes.

2. If inflation became worse and incomes continued to
increase, the yield from a tax on increased incomes would rise;
thus the amount of the tax would, to some extent, be determined by the seriousness of the inflation.

3. Since the tax on increases in incomes could not be
collected as a practical matter before the following year,
the effects on inflation might come too late to be of any
substantial use.

4. For these reasons, a tax on increases in income can
not be viewed as a substitute for other ant1-inflationary
taxes. At best, it would be a supplement raising a minor
proportion of the additional revenue.
C. Tax compliance and administration
1. A very simple tax on income increases would not be

particularly difficult for the taxpayer and would not be an

insuperable load added on to the present administrative burden

-3-

58

on the Bureau of Internal Revenue. A more equitable tax,
however, might prove to be too complicated for the taxpayer to compute or for the Bureau to enforce. There is
a limit beyond which a tax-administering agency cannot

increase its effectiveness within a short period of time
regardless of the amount of money available to it.

D. Anticipated political reaction
1. The tax on increased incomes seems popular because,
not having been publicly proposed, we are hearing only from
those who would be benefited by having such a tax instead

of some other form. Once it was publicly proposed, however,
the very substantial group which would be hurt by it would
oppose it vigorously. Many very serious hardships would be
revealed and much public sympathy would be developed for
such cases. It should not be expected that such a tax would
be politically more popular than any other form of tax
raising the same amount of revenue.

59
November 27, 1941

MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY

Number of white-collar salaried persons
The most recent data on the number of white-collar

salaried persons appear to be for 1935-1936. In that
year, according to the National Resources Committee,

there were almost 6 million white-collar salaried fami-

lies, as follows:
Clerical families
Salaried business families.
Salaried professional families

3,626,200
1,112,600

Total

5,728,000

989,200

More recent data are contained in the 1940 Census,

but are not yet available, except for a few selected
States.

For 1930, the Census enumerated about 10 million

"clerks and kindred workers" and salaried "professional
persons." The lower figure shown for 1935-36 does not
imply a corresponding decline in the number of white-

collar salaried persons during the five year interval;

it is partly explained by differences in classification
and the fact that the 1930 data are for persons while
the 1935-36 data are for families.

RoyBlough

60
November 27, 1941
11:45 a.m.

RE FINANCING

Present:

Mr. Haas

Mr. Morris

Mr. Murphy

Mr. Hadley

Mr. Bell

Mr. Schwarz

H.M.Jr:

Well, go ahead George, what have you got for
me?

Haas:

Among other things, I don't know if you are
interested in this at the moment or not; you
asked for another memorandum on excess --

H.M.Jr:

No, no, the financing; let's concentrate on
that. I am oozing taxes.

Haas:

Well, we are in a very preliminary stage on
the thing. I can point out some of the issues.

H.M.Jr:

Can't I settle how much money we want?

Haas:

Well, I talked to Bell and he says a billion
and a half.

H.M.Jr:

How does he get that way?

Haas:

It is the second question, that is, one or two
issues.

(Mr. Bell entered the conference)
H.M.Jr:

Come in, Professor. We can't operate without
you.

-2-

61

Bell:

I feel flattered.

H.M.Jr:

Why do you want a billion and a half?

Bell:

Well, I would like to go through until February
without borrowing any more money.

H.M.Jr:

Can you on that basis?

Bell:

Except through Treasury bills. This program
contemplates a hundred million dollars extra
money in bills on the third and then dropping

it to fifty million up to January 21, which
completes the thirteen week cycle and then

just rolling them over from there, we can
consider at that time whether we want to
increase that hundred and fifty to two hundred

million.
H.M.Jr:

Say it over again, please.

Bell:

We get an extra hundred million on the third
of December under the two hundred million

program.

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

Bell:

On the tenth this program contemplates we drop

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

Bell:

And go with a hundred and fifty until January 21,
which completes the thirteen week cycle.

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

Bell:

And then we roll them over from there to the
hundred and fifty or two hundred or whatever
they might be, but we can consider at that time
as to whether we want to increase that hundred

it to a hundred and fifty.

and fifty million weekly offering to two hundred
million, completing the thirteen week cycle
on the two hundred million, which would make

3-

62

two billion six outstanding. By borrowing a
billion and a half in December, we can go out of

December with two billion one hundred million and

out of January with one billion and a quarter.

That means we will have to borrow a million and

a half dollars in February and then, as I told
you yesterday, I would like to skip March because
of the tax -H.M.Jr:

Well, you would go out of December with how much?

Bell:

About two billion one.

H.M.Jr:

Well, then, this doesn't have to be settled right
now, but I would like to drop the bills down
to a hundred million, you see, and not go out with
so much and then pick them up in a month. But I

am just throwing that out. I think to go out with
two billion one is too much. I would like to
start next week with a hundred million borrowing
and then keep it a hundred until we need a
little more money and we will go up to a hundred

and fifty or two hundred. I don't care about
this cycle business. I am not very good at cycles.
Bell:
H.M.Jr:

I don't think that is important.
But I think to go out with two billion one is
too big; it is unnecessary, and I am just throwing
it out to these gentlemen to drop it from two

hundred to a hundred.
Bell:

I think that will improve your rate immensely and
have a psychological effect on the short term

market. Even the fifty will. A hundred million,
I think, will do that much better. We can do
that - you probably ought to complete the cycle
before February 18, when your first two hundred
million dollars matures, because then you can
you probably won't be in a position to add any
from there on in.

H.M.Jr:

That will be all right, but you could drop it
to a hundred and leave it there until --

Bell:

Well, in January you can pick it up, the first
of January. That is all right. That might be
a good thing.

63

-4H.M.Jr:

Well, nothing is settled. Of course, this
is the first meeting, but I am throwing
that out. When do we have to decide that,

Monday?

Bell:

Well, I would like for you to decide it

Monday. Of course Tuesday is your open

market meeting. I think it would help the
market if you would decide it. You threw
out a hint today, I see.
H.M.Jr:

Well, they asked me about the bills.

Bell:

Did they?

H.M.Jr:

And I said we would let them know. Your
friend Marriner Eccles goes up and makes
a speech on taxes and neither John Sullivan

nor I have yet seen a copy of it.

Bell:

Is that this New York crowd again?

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

Bell:

Is it off the record?

Schwarz:

This time they put it on the record, because

Bell:

He learned his lesson last time, I guess.

it broke last time afterward.

We are going out of November, Mr. Secretary,

I think, if we get our tax note money, with
a billion three, so that we are now in a
position to drop those bills, as you suggested.

H.M.Jr:

Well, let's put - that is the only change to
make right now.

Bell:

And we will go into December 15 with about

eight hundred million dollars on that basis.

H.M.Jr:

December 15? That is plenty.

63

-4H.M.Jr:

Well, nothing is settled. Of course, this
is the first meeting, but I am throwing

that out. Whenodo we have to decide that,

Monday?

Bell:

Well, I would like for you to decide it

Monday. Of course Tuesday is your open

market meeting. I think it would help the
market if you would decide it. You threw
out a hint today, I see.
H.M.Jr:

Well, they asked me about the bills.

Bell:

Did they?

H.M.Jr:

And I said we would let them know. Your
friend Marriner Eccles goes up and makes
a speech on taxes and neither John Sullivan

nor I have yet seen a copy of it.
Bell:

Is that this New York crowd again?

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

Bell:

Is it off the record?

Schwarz:

This time they put it on the record, because
it broke last time afterward.

Bell:

He learned his lesson last time, I guess.
We are going out of November, Mr. Secretary,

I think, if we get our tax note money, with
a billion three, so that we are now in a
position to drop those bills, as you sug-

gested.
H.M.Jr:

Well, let's put - that is the only change to
make right now.

Bell:

And we will go into December 15 with about

eight hundred million dollars on that basis.

H.M.Jr:

December 15? That is plenty.

-5Bell:

64

Yes. That is just before we get our new
money and before we get taxes.

H.M.Jr:

What do you think, Dave, about the bills.

Morris:

I think we can drop them all right.

H.M.Jr:

George?

Haas:

I think it is smart.

H.M.Jr:

Henry?

Murphy:

If you can pick up the money fast enough

so that you won't increase this financing,

I

think it is O.K. I am just having a little

perturbation-H.M.Jr:

A little who?

Murphy:

I am just a little disturbed that if the bills
were dropped it would complicate the problem

getting through to February because on bills
you have to pick it up again slowly.
H.M.Jr:

What do you think, Hadley?

Bell:

I don't have any objection to reducing them.

H.M.Jr:

We can take it up again tomorrow and we can
take it up again Monday.

Bell:

Tomorrow or Monday?

H.M.Jr:

Well, the bill thing I would take up again maybe tomorrow.

Bell:

Would you like for me to discuss that any
with the board and the bank?

H.M.Jr:

I would like you to discuss it after you
leave this room.

-6-

65

Bell:

I see.

H.M.Jr:

Just because they treat me shabbily is
no reason why I should treat them shabbily.

Bell:

Do you think Eccles is going to make a speech

H.M.Jr:

He did make a speech.

Schwarz:

Tuesday night.

Bell:

Oh, he did? That is over. I thought it

on taxes?

was next week.

Schwarz:

He made it.

H.M.Jr:

He made it. I will find out. I told John

Schwarz:

I should have a copy by now.

to call him up.
(The Secretary held an unrecorded telephone

conversation with Mr. Sullivan.)
H.M.Jr:

Well, let him give Eccles hell before lunch,
and you (Bell) can come along after lunch
and say "Well, now, look what a nice guy

we are.

Bell:

I will talk to Allan and Bob in New York
about it.

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

Well, then I think if everying is sound,
all right, and you can check with me. Before
I go home we might announce how much the

cash is going to be, tonight for tomorrow

morning's paper, you see. I would like to
do that. The more advance notice we can

give the market the better.

-7Bell:

66

Yes, because apparently the market is

drifting off a little just because of this
contemplated financing, isn't it?

Hadley:

Well, it is sort of wiggling.

H.M.Jr:

One thing I would like you to do is, Dave
Morris brought in a UP statement. I would
like you to go into your room and get out a
little written statement because they wrote
the thing up wrong, what I said in my
press conference, if you boys will take
five minutes.

Bell:

Not give out a formal statement but just

let Chick tell the boys.

H.M.Jr:

Yes, just so Chick will understand it.

Schwarz:

Just make it easy.

H.M.Jr:

Right. I haven't seen that book yet, Chick.

They tell me you are one of the only three
good men.

Schwarz:

Our library is getting it. We accumulated it.

H.M.Jr:

Somebody has written a book on it.

Schwarz:

Delbert Clark, that runs the New York Times-

Herald.
H.M.Jr:

He has written a book on it. Press contact
man.

Schwarz:

He had some nice things to say a bout the

Treasury generally, too.

H.M.Jr:

He probably never has seen it.

Schwarz:

He didn't have to submit the book to us.

H.M.Jr:

Is that as far as we can go today?

67

-8Bell:

I think 80.

H.M.Jrs

Has anybody got any bright ideas?

Bell:

It is good progress.

H.M.Jr:

Got any bright ideas, Dave?

Morris:

No, because I think the first thing is to see

the size of the issue, or the amount of money,
to decide whether we are going to gun for one

issue or two. It makes quite a difference.
Bell:

That is right.

H.M.Jr:

George, got any bright ideas?

Haas:

No, sir, I have got one idea that I would throw

out at this time. I think if we are going to

have a long issue we should put a longer call

period on it, maybe ten years. They will like
you better twenty years from now, as you like

the fellows that put the fifteen-year call

on the Liberties.
Bell:

He says he is going to leave you and I to worry

H.M.Jr:

Henry, got any bright ideas or long words that

Murphy:

Well, I don't have any long words but I have
some fine long call periods. I can support them
with quite a number of short words.

H.M.Jr:

That is the way you are going, long call period?

Murphy:

That is where you are going. That is

about that.

I could use?

where I would like to see you go. I think
there are some exceptionally good reasons

for it.

-9-

68

H.M.Jr:

Hadley, got any ideas?

Hadley:

Well, I have a feeling toward reopening of

H.M.Jr:

You boys would have to put me down and strap
me down and give me some ether before you

outstanding issues.

could get me to take that. I would hate
to tell you what Dan Bell said. I bet you
he wouldn't offer to say it again.

Bell:

Yes, I - that wasn't an offer. I just said we
might want to consider it. I am a little scared
of getting a lot of money out on the end.

H.M.Jr:

So am I.

Bell:

I have to - I realize, though, that the issuing

H.M.Jr:

of them at a high premium is a little dangerous.
So am I, Dan, but don't forget this, and you
fellows ought to make a study on this, the fact
that the insurance companies have dropped from

three to two and a half may make a lot of
difference.

Haas:

We are getting some new figures on their cash.
I called them up.

H.M.Jr:

How much have you got?

Haas:

Here it is graphically.

H.M.Jr:

Read it to me, George.

Haas:

We have got - at the end of August they were

about one billion three and - is that what you

have got here, Henry?
H.M.Jr:

You had better let Henry read his own figures.

Haas:

At the end of August they were one billion one

- 10 -

69

hundred twenty million. At the end of September,

one billion one hundred thirty-nine. This figure
I got over the telephone for the end of October
is eight hundred fifteen. That reflects the
figures.

Bell:

'67 - 72.

H.M.Jr:

Well, we might find out again --

Bell:

Reducing their rates would make our two and a

half coupon more attractive to them.

Hadley:

On the other hand, they might not have to get

Bell:

As long as they have got the cash, they

Haas:

That is a very sharp reduction. It is unusually

as many bonds.

will -sharp.

Murphy:

H.M.Jr:

It takes them back to about their lowest cash
in two years.

It depends on how fast we get this stuff out
and dropping the bills. I would like to know
what effect that has on excess reserves. Well,

take a look at it.

Haas:

It wouldn't have any on it.

Murphy:

It would have no effect as such.

H.M.Jr:

I mean on the New York banks. I mean, dropping

it - I mean, cutting it down from two hundred
to one hundred, what effect will it have on
the New York City banks, if any?

Haas:

Morris:

It will affect the rate.
Affect the rate, and that will affect what they
put up for.

70

- 11 Hadley:

What you have got maturing is a hundred million,
so it wouldn't change the amou.t that they are
going to have to buy.

H.M.Jr:

Well, look --

Bell:

It would be that much more excess hanging there.

H.M.Jr:

Sometime tell Fitz that the last thing

I do before I go home is to see you gents.
Bell:

Today?

H.M.Jr:

Today. And then you get busy and if you go

into your office now and write out a little

statement to correct whatever this mistake was

and we will give out the amount tonight. I
would like to give out the amount tonight,

a billion and a half, and I would also like it
if you fellows could decide on the bill
thing, if you are ready.

Bell:

Yes, I think we can.

71

November 27, 1941
3:30 p.m.

RE TAX EXEMPT ORGANIZATIONS

Present:

Mr. Graves
Mr. White

Mr. Foley

Mr. Kades

Mr. Sullivan

Mr. O'Connell
Mr. Odegard
Mr. Gaston
H.M.Jr:

Well, who is the barrister and who is solicitor
here?

Sullivan:

We are all members of the same bar.

H.M.Jr:

But there is a difference. Sit up here, Peter,
where I can see you. I can't see you that far.

Who is going to present the case for the plain-

tiff?

Foley:

John.

H.M.Jr:

All right, go ahead.

Sullivan:

Well, as you know, for quite some time we have
been working on a Treasury decision that would

require all of those corporations that are
exempt from the payment of income tax to furnish
information as to their receipts and expenditures.
As a matter of fact, I understand that this

was on the Commissioner's desk last Friday when

the discussion took place at the Cabinet, and

it came over Saturday morning and we went

over it. Herbert was in on that. I don't

know whether you want him here now or not, but

he was in on that discussion last Saturday

72

-2 morning. We made a few minor changes in it

at that time. Now, under the regulation as
it is now drawn, every tax-exempt organization
except churches would be required within sixty

days after the approval of this regulation
to furnish us with statements of their purposes, not only the type of organization they

have, but also their receipts and expenditures,
and then each year thereafter they would have

to give us their receipts and expenditures
for the previous year.

We had understood that you thought that churches

should be included in that, and it was the

unanimous opinion of the group that churches

should not be in the group.

(Mr. Gaston entered the conference).
H.M.Jr:

Well, why not churches?

White:

What group? This group does not include me,
Mr. Secretary.

Sullivan:

No, I understand you want churches in, because

H.M.Jr:

End of what?

Sullivan:

Harry is opposed to the whole regulation.

H.M.Jr:

Well look, this is the way I feel. I think
that this is a very momentous decision for somebody to take, if it is for me, and I don't see

that will be the end of it.

that if you are going to move on the front of

saying that organizations, even though they
are exempt from taxes, should make reports, then

I don't see why every organization in the

United States shouldn't make one to the United
States Treasury.

73

-3Sullivan:

Well, I think the attitude of the churches
is going to be very hostile, because they
will interpret this as the opening wedge
of control by the State over the Church.

H.M.Jr:

Well, it is the other way around. Why should

Foley:

They don't look at it logically, Mr. Secretary.
They will simply say that this is the first

any group of churches --

gun, and the next step is taxing them.

H.M.Jr:

Well, let's get down to brass tacks, inside
of this room. Let's get down to the Church
of the Little Flower. Now, why shouldn't that
organization make a report?

Sullivan:

You mean Father Coughlin?

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

Sullivan:

He not only does, but pays taxes.

H.M.Jr:

He does?

Sullivan:

Yes.

Gaston:

His radio station, you mean?

Sullivan:

Sure.

Foley:

The Church doesn't.

Odegard:

He doesn't pay taxes on the Church of the

Little Flower.

Sullivan:

Not on the Church, no.

H.M.Jr:

I said on the Church of the Little Flower.

White:

It is one horse and one hare. The hare
goes to the part that pays taxes.

74

-4H.M.Jr:

Sullivan:
H.M.Jr:

Let's just be impersonal as far as the Treasury
is concerned. Let's take the Church of the
Little Flower. I don't know how much you know
about the thing.
I don't know much about it.
Well, I know quite a lot, and the money that
they take in and the use that they make if all of the moneys collected are used for
church-like purposes, certainly I would be
the last one in the world to want to do anything
about it, but if by chance they should be used
for improper purposes under the guise of a
church, why shouldn't some agency know of it?

Foley:

Are you talking logically or politically?

H.M.Jr:

I am not talking politically because the way

I feel is this. I think - I am using an

extreme example. Now, as I understand it,

what you are going to do is to ask the A. F.

of L. and the C. I. 0. and all the other
unions to do it. Now, Foley could ask me,
am I going to talk politically, am I going
to talk logically. Well, I think from the
standpoint of fairness - I don't know whether

it is logical or not - that all of these or-

ganizations should through the United States
Government make a report, and if that is done
on a cooperative basis, and not a misuse

of funds in the public interest, fine, but if
they are - I mean, the argument for the union

doing it is, I mean, here in the last ten

years these unions have grown up until they
have an organization of five million men and
they can collect unknown millions and are

accountable to nobody. I don't think under
Democracy that is right.

But the only way I can see that I could face

the storm would be if I said, "No institution

75

-5in the United States that collects
money should be exempt from making
a report." "

Now, if I fall on that, if I fall

on that, well then, at least I have
fallen - I broke my neck on something

that I believe in.
Foley:

I wouldn't want to see you break your
neck, though.

H.M.Jr:

But I mean, the way I feel - and then
I would like to hear some of the others I can go anywhere and say, "Here are a
group of organizations, whether they

are religious or whether they are
for labor unions or for educational
purposes. Some of them collect
millions and I believe that those organ-

izations should file a financial
report so that they can't be used to

either undermine the Government or

to do anything else. They are secret

organizations. And under a Democracy -

and that is why I want Peter to hear it.
He will tell me if I am right or wrong.

Under a Democracy we shouldn't have any

secret organizations, not reporting.
would much rather trip and break my neck
than to run around the stone wall. Now
I

anybody else can talk.
Odegard:

Could I ask what would be the purpose of the

regulation? Is the purpose of the reg-

ulation to stop up leakages?

-6-

76

H.M.Jr:

Well, you will have to ask them.

Foley:

Well, that is the way it started, Peter.
People came and said there were certain

corporations enjoying tax exempt status that
had extended their activities way beyond

anything that was revealed to the Commissioner
when they gained that tax exempt status; and

once they got it, they never had to account
for their income or their disbursements or

their assets or their liabilities.

They never had to account for their activities
in relation to the exemption that they enjoyed
and there were a number of them that were

using their fronts against the interests of the

Government in these perilous times, that were
making absolutely no contribution whatsoever
to the Government, and were not being held
accountable because the public wasn't given the
information as to where their funds came
from and how they were employing their funds.

That is how the thing started and it started

way back a year or more ago.
H.M.Jr:

Can I go back of that?

Foley:

Yes, sir.

H.M.Jr:

Let me get the history right. Let me say the

way I remember it. As I remember the thing,

when I came in to the Treasury - and somebody
can stop me when I am through and say I am

wrong - I compared it - it may sound silly,

but when I was Conservation Commissioner and
Herbert Gaston was deputy, we went in there

and we found that a great many people of undesirable character had been given a license to
carry a gun and they were issued year after
year and nobody ever looked at them. Some of
them were most undesirable characters.

So I said, "From now on that license runs for

-7-

77

a year, and anybody that wants to carry a
gun and get a license as a deputy game

warden has to prove that he is worthy of it."
So I applied that same rule to this question
of exemptions and I said, "From now on, once

a year all of these 80-called tax exempt
societies have to prove that they are worthy

but no longer, once they get the thing, will it
run for five or ten years and nobody ever
investigate them." I said these people have
to prove that every year they are worthy of

this particular status. That is the way I
remember the thing starting, isn't that right?

Foley:

Well, that goes back of my experience with it.
I am telling you how --

H.M.Jr:

But I am telling you when I first came in --

Foley:

Yes, well, that goes beyond my time.

H.M.Jr:

But that is the things and I told the

Commissioner that he must check these things
and nobody from now on can have, so to speak,

a charter, a tax exempt charter, and these

people have to, at a regular interval - I
think I said once a year - prove that they are
worthy of this thing.
Now, this thing here, I understood this
thing, this particular thing, had been brought to
a head by Morris Ernst.

Sullivan:

That is right.

Foley:

Yes, that is what I am talking about. Morris
Ernst started discussing it a year ago.

H.M.Jr:

Morris Ernst had brought this thing to a head,

-8 -

78

but I don't see, frankly, why this - I don't

understand why this has been brought to a
head if Helvering had carried out my orders,
namely, that once a year every organization
enjoying a tax exempt status had to prove

that they were worthy of this particular status.

If that was done once a year, why do you have
to do this?
White:

Mr. Secretary --

H.M.Jr:

Just one second, Harry. What?

Foley:

Well, this is to accomplish just what you said.

H.M.Jr:

Oh. What I said was that the burden of proof
must be on the group desiring a tax exempt
charter, that they must prove that they are

worthy of it.

Foley:

They must make an annual showing that they are

worthy to continue in that status. Well, that
is what this would accomplish.

H.M.Jr:

Four or five years ago I asked for it.

Gaston:

The thing came up again, you will remember, in
connection with the Mellon tax case. The

Mellon educational and charitable trust. They
were chartered as an institution which Mellon
would contribute to and he furnished funds
for the education of young men and then it was
suddenly discovered that he had given to this

educational and charitable trust ninety million
dollars worth of paintings not envisaged in
the original prupose at all and thereupon the
charter was revoked.

Sullivan:

This goes further than what you asked for, Mr.
Secretary, because in addition to proving the
character of the organization and the type of

79
-9 -

work they are doing, they are obliged to

file operating financial sheets to indicate
the extent of it and in case of any person

being paid a thousand dollars or giving a
thousand
dollars in any one year, that has
to be itemized.
Kades:

Mr. Secretary, when I was in the Chief
Counsel's office in 1938, we were informed
that the policy of the Treasury toward tax

exempt organizations had changed to the
extent that the Secretary wanted a re-examination

of tax exempt organizations. As a result of
that, a questionnaire was sent to all organizations on our list. There are about twenty-six
thousand of them. They filled out their
questionnaire and the questionnaire was filed
in the Bureau, but that is the extent to which
the Bureau carried out instructions that you

mentioned.
H.M.Jr:

My orders were never carried out.
(Mr. Graves entered the conference.)
Harold, help me out on my memory. Come up

closer here. Were you with me when I told
Internal Revenue that I wanted every tax
exempt organization in the United States to
prove that they were tax exempt and that that

should be done, the burden of proof was on them
and that should be done regularly?
Graves:

That is right.

H.M.Jr:

Well, what the hell happened?

Graves:

Well, they started in, I would say, about the

summer of '37 - I am speaking now from memory, --

H.M.Jr:

I know.

- 10 -

Graves:

80

to make a re-canvass of every exempt

corporation case. I think that re-canvass
was still in progress when I left the Bureau
in 1939.

H.M.Jr:

Well, Chuck Kades says it was done and then
just filed and nothing ever happened.

Kades:

Mr. Secretary, some of these returned

questionnaires may have been examined, but
there was no annual return requirement imposed.

The Secretary said, Mr. Graves, that his
instructions were that we were to get annual
returns in the Bureau. It was my understanding that the questionnai re was to go out to

re-examine these tax exempt organizations, and
that such a questionnaire was sent out. Some
of them probably were examined but no annual
returns have been required.

Graves:

I don't recall that there was any requirement

for an annual return on this. I think he has
correctly stated what they did down there.

H.M.Jr:

My impression was that I said that these people,
the burden of proof on them was once a year

to prove that they were entitled to it.

Graves:

That I don't remember.

H.M.Jr:

But you went all through this, didn't you?

Graves:

Well, that thing had been begun before you
sent me down with the Bureau of Internal

Revenue. It was in progress at the time --

H.M.Jr:

But you are familiar with it.

Graves:

Yes, I am.

Odegard:

Did that apply to churches too at that time?

- 11 -

81

Foley:

The questionnaire?

Kades:

I think, Mr. Secretary, that this went only
to charitable organizations.

H.M.Jr:

I don't think it applied to churches.

Graves:

Well, I think it went to religious associations
that were owners of property that had income

which might be involved in this question of

taxability or non-taxability.

Kades:

That is right, but wherever the tax exempt
status of the organization depended upon

what it did with its money, then the questionnaire
went out but I don't think the questionnaire
went out to something which could be recog-

nized as a church or as a labor union.
Foley:

Political organizations.

Graves:

My impression is that the questionnaire went

out to all of the organizations or associations

that were on record at the time in the Bureau
of Internal Revenue as having been granted
an exempt status.
H.M.Jr:

That is right.

Graves:

Some thirty odd thousand, according to my

present recollection.

H.M.Jr:

Well, that would include churches.

Graves:

Any organization about which there has ever
been any question raised.

H.M.Jr:

Ed, you went through that with me, the
question of sending it to the Democratic and

National Committees.
Foley:

Well, that came up in connection with the two
percent clubs in Indiana.

- 12 -

82

H.M.Jr:

And we went through with it, didn't we?

Graves:

Well, I think the answer to that is this.

Foley:

You are getting awfully bold, Mr. Secretary.

H.M.Jr:

Well, I am surprised. It doesn't sound like

Wherever any political organization had
raised the question, or where we had raised
a question --

me.

Graves:

Wherever the question had been raised --

H.M.Jr:

It must have been just before a campaign.

(Laughter) Well, Roosevelt is not running

again. Go ahead, Harold.
Graves:

What I was saying was that wherever the question

of the taxable status of a political organiz-

ation had been raised and the club or organization granted a non-taxable status, that

undoubtedly was re-canvassed along with all

the --

Kades:

That is right. My recollection is similar
to yours. I thought there were twenty-six or
twenty-seven thousand, and you said about

thirty-six.
H.M.Jr:

How did we do the political clubs in Indiana

and not do the National Democratic and National

Republican ones?
Graves:

Well, that was a special expedition. We ran
into that organization as the result of our
Indiana investigation.

H.M.Jr:

But we did do that?

Graves:

We did that.

83

- 13 -

H.M.Jr:

Did you get my message about another Indiana?

Graves:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

Well, you (Odegard) ask him some questions.

Odegard:

Well, this political angle, I assume this would
supplement, then, the Corrupt Practice Act,

under which they are supposed to file returns

as to their income, as far as political organizations. My feeling is, without knowing anything about it except what has been said here,
that this thing - a general regulation of that
kind, unless it is very delicately handled, is
full of dynamite, particularly if it applied
to organizations that are fearful of control,
like churches and colleges and - if the feeling
is going to be that Treasury is going to set
itself up as a great censorship agency and

it is going to pass upon the legimitacy of

certain activities that are carried on --

Foley:

And any time you don't like what one organization
is doing, then you immediately crack down on them.

Odegard:

It would seem to me possible to draw a regulation
which would avoid that by setting up certain
standards which would be beyond question, but

unless that is done it seems to me that there

is a lot of dynamite in it.

H.M.Jr:

Harry?

White:

Well, I made quite a speech before I came in here,

H.M.Jr:

Are you afraid of meeting yourself coming home ?

Sullivan:

It is very well worth hearing, and I am sure we
would all be delighted to hear it the second

and I don't want to get started or I am liable
to repeat it. (Laughter)

time.

84

- 14 -

White:

The hell you would.

Foley:

When he gets started, Mr. Secretary, you had
better open the window so they can hear it

across the street.

White:

I think it would be a very, very grave error
for you --

H.M.Jr:

Come up closer, I can't see that far, Harry.

White:

I thought maybe you could hear me. I think
it would be a very grave error if an order

of this character, irrespective of its

merits, and I have no doubt about its merits,

but irrespective of its merits, I think that
this is a most inopportune time for an order
of this character to be promulgated.

It will be interpreted, and correctly so,

as having been designed to in some way or

other hamstring unions, labor unions.

H.M.Jr:

Hand or ham?

- 15 White:

85

Hamstring. The proximate cause, the
immediate cause of the bringing forth of

this order at this time, if my information
is correct, was just that, that it was the

desire to get at labor unions which prompted
the investigation as to whether something
can't be done about it and whether the
Treasury can't do something about it. That

is not the origin of it here in the Treasury.

I mean, that is the proximate cause, the
immediate cause of its coming forth, so
that when labor unions feel strongly sus-

picious that this is going to be another

crack by this Administration on them, they
are not far from wrong because unless it
is intended to use this as an instrument
to weaken the bargaining power of labor,
why is it coming at this particular moment,
and it clearly is an instrument which can

under improper guidance and improper control
and unsympathetic control be used to stop

any labor union in the course of a strike.
You can always find ninety-nine different

things wrong with any accounting procedure

of any large organization, and you can stop
their funds until such time as they make a
reckoning.

Now, it is quite true that there are labor

organizations and that there are possibly
charitable organizations and that there are

doubtless some churches here and there whose

accounts could not stand a careful reckoning,

but the bulk of institutions, I don't think,

would fall in that category and it seems to
me, as you said, that it should be simple
enough to determine whether a labor union

is a labor union, whether a church is a
church, that sort of information might be
possible to obtain through regulations,
whether a charitable institution is a
charitable institution, but when you push

- 16 -

86

that further and demand that labor organi-

zations, among others, file a report of the

sources of their income and their expenditures and where there are penalties implicit

in it, then I think you are laying a ground-

work for an attack against the finance of
labor unions and that is exactly where the
attack began in France. That is exactly

where the attack began in Germany. The way

to kill a labor union most quickly is to

remove its power over finance. Proof of
that is that was the reason why it was asked

for, I think, at Cabinet.

As I understand it, Madam Perkins, the great
Secretary of Labor, said the reason why

labor unions strike--

H.M.Jr:

Here! Here! (Laughter)

Well, Harry, I gather you are against it.
White:

And how! At this particular time, irrespective
of its merits maybe a year ago or more.

H.M.Jr:

But for the moment you are against it?

Sullivan:

I think Harry would agree with us that there
is no point in publishing any kind of a regulation on the other organizations unless
labor is included.

Foley:

No, because you would get it just as bad from

the people that are against the labor organizations because you left them out.

H.M.Jr:

And you don't want to do the churches and not
do the labor unions?

White:

I feel that if you do the labor unions, you
ought to do the churches, because I am sure

if you do the churches you won't do it.

- 17 -

87

(Laughter)
I was being honest before you
found me out.
H.M.Jr:

Thanks for the compliment.

Sullivan:

Harry, assuming that we were to do everything
except the churches, I mean assuming that we
decided that we are wise to go ahead now on

the labor unions, would you still think
churches should be included?

White:

Well, I don't feel that it is desirable for
Government to go into the revenues and

receipts of the churches to that extent.

Sure, there are occasions where they are

using their funds for subversive influences
but we have got to take some of the bad

because of the larger good. I think you can
determine whether a church is a church without finding out where it gets its money and

what it does with it, and I think that the

dangers of the Government interfering within
the internal frame of a church outweigh the
advantages, though I should also like to see

possibly some restrictions on the ability of
the church to interfere with the affairs of
government, but that is a horse from a

different stable. (Laughter)

H.M.Jr:

Herbert?

Gaston:

Well, I have always thought our system with
respect to these exempt organizations was

very loose. The real problem is not with the
regular labor organizations, not with the regular
church organizations, not with the regular

charitable organizations, it is on the fringes
of all those groups. That is as true of the
so-called religious organization as it is of
the charitable organization, as it is of the
labor organization, the racketeering organizations.

- 18 -

88

It may be that there is some other way to get at
this problem in the way of policing these
exempt organizations, looking at the fringes
and seeing what ones are open to suspicion

and going after them, if we have the authority

to require reports when we want a report,
when we are suspicious of an organization,
but I am very much inclined to agree with

Harry that this will now raise a terrific
furore that would be very damaging.

White:

And it goes out under the Secretary's signature, not under the President's.

H.M.Jr:

What do you think, Joe?

O'Connell:

Well, I first--

White:

I think you are right (referring to note

handed to him by the Secretary.)

H.M.Jr:

O.K.

White:

I weaken occasionally. The joke is on me.

O'Connell:

I first learned about this move about a year
ago when we were first drafting a T. D.

that would carry this into effect. At that
time I think I, as well as other people with
whom I discussed it, was entirely is sympathy with the
idea. I think it is perfectly legitimate on
the merits, but I don't think you will ever
get to the merits of this case today if you
try to require reports of trade associations
and unions because it is another way of doing
what unions will fight to the bitter end if
you do by legislation, and a lot of people
are talking about the necessity, Westbrook

Pegler and a lot of other people are talking,

there is a lot of agitation, to have these
fellows put their financial affairs in order
and to disclose their affairs.

- 19 -

89

I would rather regard the event of a little
more development of that as a matter of

public policy than to stick our necks out

at a time when labor people at least are

inclined to think that the Administration

is drifting away from them and that we are

kicking them around a little bit. Maybe

they need it, but I would be opposed to doing

it at this time.

H.M.Jr:

Why can't we do what I asked for five or

Graves:

Well, you couldn't do that this year. You
could make a start on it. But I don't think

six years ago, simply say - is it too late
for this year? - that for '41 any organization enjoying tax exempt status would have
to prove that it is worthy of it, for '41?
Is It too late to do that?
that gets you where you are trying to go,
if I understand where you are trying to go.

H.M.Jr:

No, wait a minute, somebody else is trying

to go somewhere. I didn't start this thing.
This is all comparatively new to me. I
didn't start this thing. For the time being,
I don't know whether there are twenty-six
thousand tax exempt organizations, but I
would like to go back to where I was and
simply say that all of these be canceled

for 42, and anybody who wants a tax exempt

status for '42 would have to put in an
application and prove that he is entitled

to it.

White:

Which means he would have to prove that it

is a church or a labor union or a charitable
organization and the demonstration of that
proof would be a reasonable demonstration

that it was a non-profit organization.

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

- 20 White:

I can see that.

Gaston:

What about the law on that? There are

90

certain classes of organizations that are
by law exempt from filing returns and from

paying taxes.
H.M.Jr:

But, Herbert, we make the regulations as to

what is exempt.
Kades:

We require a labor union in the first instance
to give us an account.

Gaston:

Well, I think that would be the answer, to
move in on this thing gradually.

Sullivan:

Another way this can be handled, Mr. Secretary--

H.M.Jr:

What do you think of that, I mean for '42
just make them start all over again?

Odegard:

H.M.Jr:

Of course that won't do what was in mind
here.

I didn't start this. What Morris Ernst wants,
Morris Ernst is gunning for America First.

Well, it is wrong to set up a - to try to

have the whole Treasury organization, Internal
Revenue, gun for one organization anyway.

You can't do it.

White:

It has boomerangs.

H.M.Jr:

You can't do it.

Odegard:

No, I think that is right.
If he wants to do it, let him introduce an

H.M.Jr:

act in Congress.
Sullivan:

Well, that can be done. Whenever a question

- 21 -

91

is raised about the right of an organization
to this exemption, an investigation can be
made in that particular case, and I pointed
that out to Morris, and he didn't agree with
me that that would be sufficient.
H.M.Jr:

Well, listen, it is very nice for Morris
Ernet to sit up in New York behind his

desk and have me as a cat's paw, but I wish
you would re-examine this thing along the
lines that for the year '42 anybody who
wants to enjoy a tax exempt status will

have to start de novo. I mean, I am not
issuing an order. I would like you to

consider that. Talk it over with these

people in the room and then come back in a

couple of days and talk to me about it again.
Where would that lead to, you see.
Sullivan:

That is in this.

White:

With a lot of other things.

Sullivan:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

But supposing you just did that honestly
and nothing else.

Sullivan:
H.M.Jr:

Is there to be a Cabinet meeting tomorrow?

No, there won't be any more until - for a

week.

Sullivan:

Well, when this thing comes up, there is
another way of accomplishing this. If the

feeling is--

H.M.Jr:

The President leaves tomorrow and will be
gone for a week.

Sullivan:

If the feeling is that the Treasury shouldn't
take sole responsibility for this, everything

- 22 -

92

that is set forth in this Treasury decision
can also be set forth in a statute for the
Congress to pass on.
H.M.Jr:

But they won't pass on it.

Sullivan:

Well, I don't know.

H.M.Jr:

Well, look, John, it is past four o'clock

and I am no good at this hour. Re--examine

it and talk It over with these people. Don't
bother Harold. I just brought him in to but I would like Odegard on account of you know. There is a big repercussion on the

morale of the country on this thing, on the

whole question of upsetting these people un-

necessarily, getting their minds off building
guns and buying defense stamps and so forth

and so on, you see. That is why I want you

in on it.

What?

Odegard:
Gaston:

Yes, I can see it.
You will have to consider, I think, too,
the physical dimentions of the job, as to

when it would be undertaken and whether the

Bureau could carry the load, how big a job

it is going to be.
H.M.Jr:

They could do it next year because the
burden of proof is on these organizations,

Herbert. I mean, simply say, Gentlemen,
beginning the first of January, nobody has
a tax exempt status. You have got to come
in and prove that you are worthy of it."

Sullivan:

I will go over this with the Commissioner in

H.M.Jr:

All right.

the morning.

Thank you all.

93

November 27, 1941

4:27 p.m.
HMJr:

Senator

Hello.

O'Mahoney

Hello, Henry.

HMJr:

How's Wyoming?

O:

Fine and dandy. Henry, I sent you a note the

HMJr:

Yeah.

O:

HMJr:

other day

transmitting a copy of a telegram or the
telegram I had received
Yeah.

from the Sturgis Posture Chair Company out

0:

in Sturgis, Michigan.
HMJr:

Well, I've got a backache today. I've got
lumbago, so it's a good day to talk to me about
it.

O:

Fine. Well, it's very simple.

HMJr:

What do they want?

0:

They don't want a darned thing. They want to be
permitted to stay in business.

HMJr:

What do they want

0:

The reason I was sending it to you was this.

HMJr:

Yeah.

O:

They have a factory making metal furniture.

HMJr:

Yeah.

O:

They have orders on hand for eight weeks. They

also have on hand the metal with which to fill
these orders.

HMJr:

Yeah.

94

-2But OPM gave out an order which prevents them

O:

from using the metal they have on hand to fill
the orders they have on hand; and if they'd obey
the order, they'd have to close the factory and
throw fifty-four people out of work. And a large
number of those people are buying defense bonds.
Some of them have bought as much as five hundred
dollars.

HMJr:

Yeah.

Here's the other case, of a factory at Elkhart,
Indiana, which personally - which itself - purchased thirty-five thousand dollars worth of

0:

defense bonde; and under the same order, it's
being crippled.

HMJr:

Yes.

O:

Now, I'm getting reports of this from all over
the country. That's why I have said - I said

in a broadcast on Tuesday night over the Columbia
Broadcasting Company - that civilian business 18

the goose that lays the golden egg that will pay

for the defense program.
HMJr:

Yeah.

0:

And if we kill civilian business, we kill the
goose.

HMJr:
0:

HMJr:
O:

HMJr:

O:

Yeah.

Now, nobody ought to be more interested in preserving
this goose with the golden eggs than Henry Morgenthau.
Yeah. Well

Henry, something ought to be done about it, or

we're going to catch hell.
Well, Joe - let - these two companies, I'11 have
them looked into at once.

Oh, well, no. I don't want you to bother with
that.

95

-3HMJr:

Oh, no, no. I'd look into it, because I just I don't know the status; but let me look into it,
because there's another angle that you may not
know of where I may be able to be helpful for
these two cases.

0:

Uh huh.

HMJr:

After all, we place a lot of business through

O:

Yeah.

HMJr:

Maybe we can buy something from these companies.

O:

Well, by gosh, they're not permitted to ship the

HMJr:

Well, if

0:

The OPM orders

HMJr:

Yeah, but if we buy it, we get priorities for

Procurement.

damn stuff.

them.

0:

Yeah.

HMJr:

See?

0:

HMJr:
O:

HMJr:

Oh, yes. Sure.
I mean, that's another angle.
That's right.
Look, I'11 have that explored tonight.

O:

All right.

HMJr:

And

O:

HMJr:

But the fundamental thing is the thing we must
get after, Henry.
Well, I'm tremendously interested, and I appreciate
your calling me.

96

4O:

How are you feeling except for this wrenched

HMJr:

Ch, pretty good. I wish things were going better.

O:

How's your father?

HMJr:

oh, he's fine.

O:

Give him my best, won't you?

HMJr:

I'11 do that.

O:

Henry, we can put this thing in ship-shape if

HMJr:

back?

we'll only do it.
Well, I'm interested, and I'll look into this and
call you about it myself.

O:

Okay.

HMJr:

Thank you.

O:

Thank you.

97
November 27, 1941

4:30 p.m.

RE FINANCING

Present:

Mr. Bell
Mr. Haas

Mr. Murphy
Mr. Hadley

Mr. Morris

Mr. Schwarz

Mrs. Klotz

H.M.Jr:

Bell:

All right, Bell, give me a report.
I haven't heard from Mr. Eccles. I didn't
know what the situation was until I talked
to him.

11-29

H.M.Jr:

I have got a letter here, "I would appreciate
it if you would tell the Secretary I am
sorry, the text did not get to him sooner."
I don t know.

Bell:

Well, I think you can get enough from New

H.M.Jr:

I think whatever we decide, I would call

York.

him up on the phone and tell him.
Bell:

Sproul and Rouse, I talked to them this
morning and they considered it and they are
going to call me back late this evening.
They said they strongly feel that we should not
go down to a hundred million, that you decided
some weeks ago that you were going to create

98

-2a bill market, and they think you have got a
bill market, that you have got good
distribution over the country, and that you

should keep that, and if you have got too much
cash, go out of the month with too much cash,
then you should reduce your billion and a

half offering. They think if you bring it

down to a hundred you will have a less stable

market and that you might pull the bills

back into New York where you don't want them.

They are now pretty well distributed, and
they are out there in the country where the
excess reserves are. They would like to
see you reduce it to a hundred and fifty

and complete the cycle and then consider whe-

they or not you want any more bills.

H.M.Jr:

I won't decide on it tonight, so let's just

pigeonhole that for tomorrow.

What is the next thing?
Bell:

The billion and a half, they see no objection
to announcing tonight that the issue would

be not more than a billion and a half, that is,
the offering. I had thought it ought to be that
way, not more than a billion and a half.
They saw no objection to that.

Schwarz:

I wonder why they say it like that, not more?

H.M.Jr:

Why not just say a billion and a half?

Bell:

Well, I did ask them if they had in mind this

twenty-five per cent increase that we have been

discussing, and they said, "No," that your last
statement was it would be more than a billion.
H.M.Jr:

You want a billion and a half, don't you?

Bell:

Yes.

99

-3H.M.Jr:

Iand
would
tell them it is going to be a billion
a half.

Morris:

Would you want it if you keep up your bills?

Bell:

Yes. The hundred and fifty million of bills
to complete the cycle is in our picture
between now and September 15th.

H.M.Jr:

I am not in a mental condition to argue about
anything. I don't have to make up my mind.

I would like to get out the billion and a half,
though.

Bell:

All right. We don't have to do the other

until --

H.M.Jr:

You can come back at me Monday.

Bell:

Monday you can do it. I just thought maybe

H.M.Jr:

What?

Bell:

The market. It might help the market a
little.

H.M.Jr:

I would like to think on that.

Bell:

But it is all right to let it go over until

it might help a little if we had some reduction
in the bills, but at the same time --

Monday.

H.M.Jr:

Well, I can do it tomorrow. Does anybody disagree on a billion and a half? They weren't

afraid of it?

Bell:

Sproul and Rouse?

H.M.Jr:

Yes.

Bell:

No.

100

-4H.M.Jr:

Well, what I would say is, a billion and a
half - you (Bell) tell Eccles - I mean, give
him five minutes. Go in there, Chick, while

he calls up Eccles. You may have to go to
sleep for an hour, but let him go in and talk
to Eccles --

Schwarz:

Eccles talks to him.

H.M.Jr:

And unless Eccles says "No", I would say a

billion and a half. Let's call up Eccles

now.

Bell:

You are taking on something.

Klotz:

You are taking a lot of punishment today.

H.M.Jr:

I know. You are going up on the Hill for me
tomorrow at ten o'clock. I am not going.

Bell:

Oh, you are not going?

H.M.Jr:

No, you are going up. You sit up on the dais
there in my place.

Bell:

It is quite an honor. I can't vote, can I?

H.M.Jr:

Yes, you can vote. I don't know whether I can
vote either.

Bell:

Oh, yes, you are a member of the committee,

by the resolution.

H.M.Jr:

Well, you go up there.

Bell:

But there is no provision for a substitute or

H.M.Jr:

I can't go up there without losing my temper
and I don't want to lose my temper. 01₫ Bob

an alternate.

Doughton will say, "We won't have any more

taxes without the billion and a half and

101
-5=

without cutting out the WPA and he won't
say so publicly.
(The Secretary held a telephone conversation

with Mr. Marriner Eccles as follows):

102
November 27, 1941
4:41. p.m.
HMJr:

Hello.

Operator:

Chairman Eccles.

HMJr:

Hello.

Marriner
Eccles:

Hello.

HMJr:

Marriner

E:

Yes, Henry.

we're planning to give out for tomorrow

HMJr:

morning's papers next week, barring some un-

foreseen international situation - I always
want that as a hedge - that we're proposing to
borrow a billion and a half cash.

E:

Yes. Dan called up this morning.
Yeah, he couldn't get you.
What is it?

HMJr:

I - did he talk to you?

E:

He talked to Piser.

HMJr:

Yeah.

E:

HMJr:

E:

And then I talked to Piser immediately after.
As I understood it, you were going to ask for

a billion and a half and that's practically all

HMJr:

E:

that you've given out, that the terms and
That's all. Just 80 that the market would know
the size.

and that you're going to discontinue bills that is, you're going to take care of the tum-over

only, or the roll-over.
HMJr:

Well, we're not going to say anything about that,
because New York wants us to keep on a hundred

and fifty; and I'm too tired to argue tonight.

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103

E:

Yeah, well

HMJr:

I thought we'd just say a billion and a half

E:

Now, as I understand it; we're going to meet

HMJr:

Tuesday.

E:

HMJr:

E:

HMJr:

tomorrow.

Tuesday at two-thirty; and there'11 be no
further statement on it, and no decision until
that time.
No, no. We might want to do something about the

bills, but I thought

No, I meant on the billion and a half.
No, no. There'11 be nothing more without - I
certainly wouldn't say anything more without
calling you up the way I am now.

E:

Yes. I sent a note over. I don't know whether

John Sullivan has seen you. John called me this
morning about the

HMJr:
E:

He gave it to me.
statement in New York, and I didn't know

that you weren't - that you didn't get that. I

was out of town.
HMJr:

E:

I got an awful pounding from the press on it, and

I just told them I hadn't seen it.
Yeah. Well, maybe it's just as well, then. But
my note explains the - did you read it?

HMJr:
E:

He just gave it to me. I haven't read it yet.
Well, I think you'll find the note explains it.
It was just a mistake in the office. I mean, I they were supposed to send it over - they ve had
instructions - it just wasn't done. And I hope
you will at least read that portion of the statement that I have marked.

HMJr:

I will.

-3E:

104

And it's all I said on the tax question and also
on the function of banking in relation to the
defense program.

HMJr:
E:

Well, I'11 read it, Marriner.
And if - I'd like to get your reaction. I mean,
if you feel there's any

E:

If there's anything, you'll get it - direct.
I don't think there will be.

HMJr:

Okay.

E:

All right, Henry.

HMJr:

But as we stand now, I just want to know that a

HMJr:

E:

billion and a half didn't frighten you.
No, it doesn't frighten - no, it - how can you

HMJr:

get along with less?
Well, I don't know.

E:

No, I'm not - I'm not a bit - I think that the

easiest part of the defense program is the money

end of it. If the labor and the production end

was as easy to handle as the money end, I think
HMJr:

Well, maybe this sounds terribly conceited, but

E:

Well, I think that we - I think that the other

maybe it's because the money end is done well.

you're dealing with human nature. I think on

the money end, that between the Treasury and the
Reserve, we've got most of the trump cards.

HMJr:

Yeah, but maybe it's because we do it well.

E:

Well, I think that has something to do with it.
I mean that

HMJr:

But I think the other thing could be done if it
was done properly - the production.

E:

Well, of course, you're dealing with the human
nature problem there, which is

4HMJr:

E:

HMJr:

105

Well, I'm told that the pocketbook is supposed
to be the most sensitive nerve.
We've got the control on the money picture - I
mean if - I think we have. (Laughs)

Yeah. Well, anyway, I'll be seeing you; and we'll
not make any announcements on the financing unless
either Bell or I check with you first.

E:

Okay.

HMJr:

Thank you, Marriner.

E:

All right. Good-bye.

106

-6 H.M.Jr:

You have control of the money market

until it goes sour.

Haas:

Yes.

H.M.Jr:

And the Fed. --

Bell:

He is relaxed now. The money end of it is the

H.M.Jr:

Sure, until it goes sour, until the Federal

easy part of it.

Reserve does something without telling us.

Goodnight. Remember, announce a billion and

a half, barring --

Schwarz:

Unforseen international situations.

H.M.Jr:

Or another speech by Marriner Eccles.

107

BOARD OF GOVERNORS
OF THE

FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM
WASHINGTON

OFFICE OF THE CHAIRMAN

November 27, 1941.
Dear John:

I am enclosing copies of the speech that you called
me about and regret that they did not get over to you sooner
as, of course, I mean to have them sent just as soon as they
are completed and, if possible, in advance of their getting
into the press. In this case, I was not making a long speech
and merely wanted to avoid a repetition of what happened a
year ago when I spoke to the same group and what I said off
the record was very badly garbled. I made some last minute

changes in the text of this speech so it was not ready until
late Tuesday evening. But it is largely a repetition of what
I have said publicly before.
I have marked some passages in which you might be

interested as to the fact that central banks have properly
become the servants of government and as to taxes. With re-

gard to the tax picture, I felt that I was backing up the

Treasury's position in general, so I think you would have
no occasion for criticism.

I would appreciate it if you would tell the
Secretary that I am sorry the text did not get to him sooner.
Sincerely yours,

Insteula
Honorable John L. Sullivan,
Assistant Secretary of the Treasury,
Washington, D. C.

enclosures

5

pet
ADDRESS AT MEETING OF
NATIONAL INDUSTRIAL CONFERENCE BOARD
NEW YORK CITY

TUESDAY EVENING, NOVEMBER 25, 1941

BY

MARRINER S. ECCLES

FOR RELEASE IN MORNING NEWSPAPERS OF

WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 26, 1941

2-615

108

netwer,
0

2-615

109

It is particularly gratifying to me to be on the same program
with such distinguished speakers as Sir Arthur Salter and Dr. James, for
it so happens that the two books which made the deepest impression on me

in the depths of the depression nearly a decade ago came from their respective pens. When I pleaded my inability to measure up to the high
oratorical standards of such eminent economists and authors, the arrangers

of your program intimated that they wanted me for contrast. As I recall,
Dr. Jordan, in introducing me a year ago, said that I had the habit of say-

ing the things you did not like to hear. If I succeed in living up to that
dubious reputation, I can lay some of the blame at the door of Sir Arthur's
"Recovery--The Second Effort" and to Dr. James' "The Road to Revival".
Those volumes have been in my office ever since I have been in Washington,
and in glancing back at them a few days ago, I noted again passages which

I had marked nearly ten years ago -- what I think were prophetic words.

For instance, Sir Arthur wrote: "The role of finance is to be
the handmaid and servant of economic activity", and in recording "The Pass-

ing of Laissoz-faire", he visualized the development of a "system in which
competition and individual enterprise on the one hund and regulation and
general planning on the other will be so adjusted that the abuses of each

will be avoided and the benefits of each retained."
And I noted again in Dr. James' book his remark that "the final
aim of economic activity is the enriching of human life", and his statement

that our industrial potentialities make it "possible, by the redistribution
of national income on a sounder social basis, to offer to the average man

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110
"and woman a standard of living more worthy of economic civilization."

I apologize to the authors for snatching these too brief random
statements from their context -- yet they serve to point up what I wish to
say. During the intervening years the democracies have been moving (slowly

but, I think, surely) along these paths, seeking to realize these objectives.
In a recent issue of The Economist, of London, I noted the statement that the end of the gold standard also marked "the end of the Financial

Age, the failure of the last attempt to restore the dominance of finance over
economics." And the article added: "The foundations of a new order of ideas
have been laid in the ensuing years, in Britain, in America and in Germany,

and the war will carry the process much further. The world is showing an
unmistakeable tendency to argue that, if a thing is physically possible,
whether it be fighting a war, or removing unemployment, it must not be

stopped by considerations of 'sound finance' alone. In war, finance is
manifestly a mero camp follower, and the tendency is to reduce it to dependent status in peace as well."

Sir Arthur's relegation of finance to the role of "handmaid and
servant" and not the master of our destinics is echoed in this comment ten

years later from The Economist. Dr. James' vision of the "redistribution
of national income on a sounder social basis" is today, even in a world at
war, much more of & reality, as evidenced by the trend of social legislation
in the democracies and the shaping ef fiscal, monotary and other public

policies toward a wider, more equitable distribution of national income.
We propose to save democracy, as we say, but not to repeat the economic

mistakes that lie at the botton of so much of the world's disorder. We

-3-

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propose to preserve democracy as the hope of civilized pooples to achieve
the economic progress that the machine age makes possible. The tragody is

that the world has turned the machine to producing for war instead of for
peace. Engulfed in the tide of human madness, wo have no choice but to arm.
Yet we may well take thought now of the kind of peace we mean to have on

earth and the use to which we may turn our industrial and tochnological
might whon once we are free again to move on toward the goal of "enriching
human life."

My own economic philosophy, if I may call it that, is based on the
conviction that, if we have the understanding and the will, wo can make our

capitalistic democracy produce as fully for peace as for war times -- with
vastly fewer complications and enormously greator bonefits for the human
race.

The experience of the last eight or ten years and even of the
present points the way to combine intelligent government regulation and

planning with freedom of private enterprise and competition. It can be done
without regimentation and without abandonment of representative government,

though I agree that it calls for adaptation of our political processes so
that there may be far more foresight, far better direction and timing in
public policy than has been the case in bygone eras. One does not have

to be an easy optimist to believe that a far greater, a much more widespread and enduring prosperity -- "a standard of living more worthy of

economic civilization" -- will result.
While we cannot hope to realize these high aspirations in a world
at war, they need to be kept in view as the ultimate goal and vindication

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112

of the systom we moan to defend and preserve. And with these objectives in
mind we can porhaps bottor judgo whether changes which have alroady taken

place in our economic processos are improvements and not the ovils that they
may first appoar to be.

Not the lonst significant change is the subordinatod role of finance in the world today. Central banks, for example, are no longer the
creatures of powerful private groups. They have everywhere become more and
more the sorvants of government.

Whore the color of indopendence still remains, it is largely a
fiction. The interest rate is determined, whether admittedly or not, by
governments, not by bunking or finance. In Great Britain, and in Canada, and

to & losser extent in our own country, the government has, in effect, assorted
its sovereign power over the supply and the cost of money. Governments no

longer deal at arms length with the financial world. They are no longer

obliged to finance at the high rates that provailed in the last war. Governmont action and policy are responsible for the rate structure, and with the
assumption of this responsibility governments no longer think morely in terms

of how good a bargain they can drive in the financial markets, but larger
considerations of public policy have to be taken into account. In Great
Britain, in Canada, the primary consideration is not how cheaply the war

effort can be financed, but whether the rate structure is so adapted as to
utilize most effectively the existing money supply and whether the rates are

such as will pormit the private credit system to continue its function on an
effective basis.

It is highly commendable, in my opinion, that these are some of the
considerations which our own government has been weighing in its financing

--

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operations. Extremists in all countries will not agree, of course. On the
one side are the groups that clamor for the issuance of non-interest bear-

ing government securities. While professing to be in favor of preserving
capitalism and democratic processes, nevertheless, they would strike at the
heart of both by destroying the private credit mechanism. On the other side
are the old-line conservativos who measure all things by the departed gold

standard. Despite the evidence in the lato 20's of the ineffectivenoss of
high interest rates in preventing or ovon restraining spoculativo excessos,
despite the record since then that low rates are not by thomselves sufficient

to bring about recovery, they cling to the belief that inflation can be
curbed or deflation romedied by the simple dovice of the interest rate. It
is highly unfortunate that orderly economic progress cannot be arranged that
easily. However, I cannot view with alarm the trond throughout the world to
discard such a fallacy.
The assumption by governments of responsibility for the supply and

cost of money has greatly altered the role of central banking operations.
Not only must contral banking authorities work in close cooperation with

those responsible for government fiscal and financial policies, but they
must be prepared to use central banking powers to support and sustain those

policies, once they are formulated by the government. Nor do I view this
as a backward step. It seems to me to be wholly in accord with democratic
principles that elected governments shall have command over the most important

functions essential for successful administration. It can hardly be deniod
that control of the supply and cost of money is ono of the most vital of all
functions. Those of your generation and mine are hardly in a position to

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argue that governments will be less enlightened, loss capable of successful
and proper management of this function than private interests have been.
And there is always the redress in a democracy of supplanting any government that misuses or abuses such vital powers.

But beyond this trend -- the subordination of finance to economics
it seems to me to be significant and fortunate for democracy that the new

emphasis is on production. It is, of course, tragic that the world thus

far can only gear itself to full utilization of its man power and material
resources in the making of war or the implements of war. It will be a world
tragedy if, when peace is restorod, we revert to the doctrine that we cannot
afford to employ our human and material resources in full production.
Yet there will be such a reversion unless we prepare now to make
the transition back to peace -- unless wo plan to keep the omphasis upon

full production -- the maximum that can be called forth by private enterprise and initiative, but with government prepared to assure usoful employ-

mont to all who are ablo and willing to work who cannot find jobs in private

activity. Again, I think it significant and fortunate for democracy that
the most important political loaders of all parties agroo upon that fundamental, however much they may disagree about how to apply it. I cannot view
with alarm the trond throughout the world toward onginooring rather than

finance economics as a means to full production. The defeatists are those

who say it can't be done -- that we can't afford it, that domocracy can't
achieve it. If that wore so, then domocracy could not and would not deserve
to survive. Surely we are not saving democracy from dostruction by war to

have it destroy itself in the aftermath.

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Production is the keynote of economics of peace as well as of

war. We do not ask today whether we can afford full production. We are

prepared to make every sacrifice to obtain it. Unhappily, as I have said,

it is production for destructive, not constructive, things, and it is of
necessity concentrated upon the industrial sectors of the economy. Our

economic problems are not only those of the inflationary side of the cycle,
but they are tremendously complicated because we must turn out more and

more of the implements of war and less and less for civilian consumption.
In peace times there would be no such complications.
Since I spoke here a year ago we have witnessed the gradual

evolution of our national policy toward what, in the words of the President,
has now become an "unlimited commitment" on the part of the American people

that there shall be a free world. In that period we have taken the first
steps in the program of all-out production that is necessary to imploment
that policy. Our effort thus for has been curried on in an economic
atmosphere which WAS favorable to the expansion of both military and civilian

output, and, for this reason, the public is as yet inadequately prepared for
the sacrificos that must be faced if the defense effort is to be carried to
a successful conclusion. While defense expenditures have rison in the past

your from 300 million dollars to 1,500 million dollars a month, national income expanded to an annual rate not far from 100 billion dollars a year and

industrial production has increased by about a third.
As long as defense production could be increased without diminish-

ing civilian output, little if any secrifice WLS required. It is true that
taxes have boen increased and also that we have had to pay the comparatively

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small penalty of 10 per cent increase in the cost of living. But even with
these offsets, our population in the aggregate has seen better times than
ever before due to greater production, wages and employment. The ironic fact

is that until now the defense effort has been a blood transfusion for
civilian welfare.

We seem clearly to be at the end of the rising curve of civilian
output. Although we have not yet exhausted our resources of unused labor
and industrial capacity in some categories, we have drawn heavily upon them.
The defense program has expanded in total volume far beyond what anyone en-

visaged a year ago. It is still impossible to foresee its total cost or to
estimate what proportion of our national income it will require at its peak.
At the moment, its total cost is scheduled at almost 70 billion dollars.
Defense expenditures are currently absorbing about 18 per cent of our national
income. While these expenditures have almost doubled since last June, there

has been comparatively little change in the physical volume of production, a
fact which, while attributable in part to temporary circumstances, suggests

that it will be increasingly difficult to maintain the rapid rate of increase in output that characterized the period up to last June.

In the light of these ciroumstances it is unlikely that in the
future the full requirements of the defense program can be met by drawing
unutilized reserves into the productive process. Resources now devoted to

the production of goods and civilian supplies must inovitably be curtailed.
I am speaking not only of consumer requirements but also plant, equipment,
and other capital goods available to replace and to expand productivo
capacity outside the defense industries thomsolves.

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What I have just said refers, of course, my to the over-all
total of goods for civilian use. There are many items like foodstuffs,
various non-durable goods, entertainment and other services which the

public can buy in increased volume without using resources needed for
defense, but the expansion in these sectors will be balanced and doubtless
overbalanced by the contraction in the production of durable goods using
source raw materials, machine tools and skilled labor.

The basic problem is manifestly a physical one. It is one of

production -- not of finance. Insofar as it is possible, the expansion of
output is the answer to our major difficulties. I believe that our people
as a whole confronted with the choice betwoon consuming less or working

harder would prefer to minimizo the sacrifico of living standards by doing
more work. In terms of the presont economic situation this moans longer
hours of work, maximum utilization of equipment by working as many shifts
a day as technical considerations will allow, and abandonnent of output-

restricting practice. It means drawing surplus agricultural labor from farms
into factories and it moans an increasing number of womon going from household work to commercial and industrial employment. It means emphasis on

industrial training programs and the removal of discrimination against hiring
the aged and other groups able to make a contribution to the nation's
productive offort.

But with all these extensions of effort wo shall not be able to
avoid a temporary reduction in the standard of lifo if we are to dovote our
productive resources to defense to the extent already planned. The reduction
WO should pormit noods definition. On the one hand, there are many Americans

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whose scale of living is so irreducibly low that no sacrifico can be demanded

in that quarter. Above this level roductions must be allocated to all groups.
The generally required reduction should bo shared on an equitable basis.

This means that sacrifices will havo to be distributed all along the line
in the lower middle braokets, the upper brackets and in the corporate tax
structure. We should roach a condition where no one is ablo to talk piously
about sacrifices when he is making none himself and is roally referring to

the sacrifices of the other fellow.
Moanwhile, government net expendituros will continue to rise.
Aggregate money incomes will continue to increase. In the absonce of

special restraints the people receiving those increased incomes will seek
to spend them. The prospect of an increasing flow of money and of a diminish-

ing volume of goods available for the civilian market inevitably spolls one
thing of which WO have heard a great deal since I met with you a year ago --

inflation. While it is conceivable that a very large and complex enforcement machinery, backed by rigorous penalties, might be able to hold prices
steady in the face of the mounting pressure of demand, the task will be made

infinitely easier to the extent that the growth of domand is held in check
by taxation and by other functional as well as selective restraints upon the
flow of incomos and the oxpansion of credit.

Of all the available restraints taxation is at once the most
effective and most equitable. Since the middle of 1940 we have passed three

major revenue acts, representing in the aggregate well over 5 billion dollars
por annum of additional revenue. Measured by past standards, that is a very
largo tax program and one that has sharply increased the lovies upon many

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groups of taxpayers. The normal rate of corporate income tax has been increased by about a third and a new surtax has been imposed making the total

rate of tax payable in corporate income in general about 63 per cent higher

than it was in 1939. We have taken the first steps in the direction of
effective taxation of excess profits. We have moasurably increased some
of our excise taxes. Rates have been increased and exemptions have boen

lowered under the individual income tax. As a result of those changes and

the rising level of business activity, tax collections can be expected to be
about 6 billion dollars greater in the calendar year 1942 than in the current
year.

The tax structure as it now stands will be an important restraint
upon the growth of private expenditures. In addition, of course, other
restraints have been or will be applied in the form of direct price controls, priorities and allocations that promote defense but ourb civilian
production in housing and other durable goods, regulation of instalment

credit, and the proposed increase in social security taxos. While it is
impossible to estimate how far such measures will go in preventing demand

from outrunning civilian supply, wo know that by the middle of next year
defense expenditures will probably be running at an annual rate of somewhat

more than 15 billion dollars above the middle of the current year. The
conclusion is inescapable, therefore, that additional taxation must be imposed and further rostraints applied.

So far as further taxation is concerned, I hope that it will first
tap the corporate excess profits and the middlo and upper individual income
brackets and close numerous conspicuous loopholes in the corporation,

individual income, inheritance and gift tax structures. At the same time it

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is important that Congress enact an effective price control measure and that
some curbs be applied to repeated demands for wage and salary increases, as

well as to agricultural prices. Beyond all this, however, I believe it will
be necessary ultimately to adopt measures that will tap all incomos, dividends
and other such payments at the source, possibly in the form of the so-called
withholding tax or such a tax in combination with an enforced diversion of
such income payments into government savings bonds redeemable after the
emergency is over.

From the standpoint of public morale, it is essential that the long
purses be tapped first and heaviest in accordance with the equitable princi-

ple of capacity to pay, and that there be no attempt to shift the tax burden
to the lowest income groups whose standard of living is already down to or
under reasonable subsistence levels. Only when those at the top of the income
scale, who have the ,most at stake and who do not have to make real sacrifices

in their supply of food and other necessities, have been made to bear their
full share of the tax load can reaching into the shorter purses of those who

have the least at stake be justified.
The timing as well as the nature of all measures of restraint is
of great importance. Public morale is as vital to defense as the implements
of defense. The government has to take account of mass psychology, of the

fact that the public is not yet fully awake to the gravity of the international situation and the sacrifices that must be made. So far as the
economic front is concerned, our people have the choice either of paying
taxes, subscribing to savings bonds and cooperating in other measures to curb

price inflation, or of seeing the buying power of their money progressively

shrink. The former is the only intelligent choice for anyone who even re-

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motely understands the evil consequences, now and in the future, of inflation.

I think the situation was admirably summed up in the recent report
which the Emergency Board, appointed in September under Section 10 of the
Railway Labor Act, made to the President. "The huge incomes disbursed by

both defense and civilian industries," said the report, "magnify the de-

mand for civilian goods. But the output of civilian goods is not likely to
expand significantly, if it expands at all, in the months ahead. This condition alone sets the stage for a dangerous inflation, and the process is
boing activated by wage adjustments to rising living costs and price adjust-

monts to rising wages -- the familiar vicious circle.

No group has

more to lose from inflation than the nation's wage carners. To save this

nation from the blight and chaos of inflation it will probably be necessary
to impose drastic now taxes on the public as a whole, immobilize a part of
the expanding purchasing power by some organized scheme of savings and,

most important of all, adopt a comprehonsivo plan in rogard to wages,

profits, and the prices of both agricultural and industrial commodities."
The government, as the report said, is cognizant of the problem,
and the government alone is able to make a woll formulated and coordinated

attick upon the problem. It is fair to say, I think, that the government
today shows a far greater awareness and understanding of the problem and a

far grouter dotermination to deal with it effectively than was the case in

the last war. And this is attributable partly, at any rate, to that trend
I spoke of at the outset -- the increasing assumption by government of

responsibility for economic welfare. With that responsibility goes the

obligation to act wisely, fairly, in the interest of the nation as E. whole

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and not in the interest of any group, class or section of the country.
The prophets of disaster we always have with us. And they would

have us believo that the only alternatives to a laissez-faire, gold standard
world are dictatorships and an and of our economic systom. I 800 no such

portents of evil in the broad trends in democratic countries toward responsibility for economic welfaro. And, as C. banker, I recognize that this
involves government command over the creation, cost and flow of money in the

economy. To my way of thinking, these changos are not the fororunners of

dictators or other disastors. They are necessary steps in the adaptation
of our political and economic processos to moot the challenge of a now day.

123

NOV 87 1941

My dear Mr. Blacks

The present method of financing governmental corpora-

tions and credit agencies by issuing guaranteed obligations of
the United States is making our financing more complicated as
time goes on, especially in view of the large Treasury
financing requirements made necessary by the defense program.

I propose, with the approval of the President, to undertake to
provide funds to governmental corporations and credit agencies
which heretofore have raised funds by the issuance of guaran-

teed obligations in the market, to cover their current

requirements as well as to refund any obligations now outstanding as they mature or are called for redemption.

In line with this policy the Treasury will be
prepared to purchase notes from the Federal Farm Hortgage
Corporation, from time to time as funds are needed. The
interest which will be charged on notes purchased by the
Treasury will be at the rate of 1% per annual so long as the

average interest rate on the outstanding public debt is
2-1/2% or thereabouts. If the average rate of interest on
the outstanding public debt should increase, the Treasury will
reconsider the rate of interest charged on notes of the Federal

Farm Mortgage Corporation purchased by it.

It is understood that consideration is now being given
to the matter of calling for redemption the Corporation's 3%
bonds of 1942-47 which are subject to call for redemption on
and after January 15. 1942, and also its 2-3/4% bonds of
1942-47 which are subject to call for redemption on and after
March 1, 1942. The Treasury will purchase notes of the
Federal Farm Mortgage Corporation subject to the authorisation
and approval of the Corporation's Board of Directors, in order
to provide it with funds for the purpose of redeeming the
above-mentioned bonds if they should be called for redemption
at their earliest call date or purchased by the Corporation

prior thereto. It is suggested that the Corporation's notes

nature June 30. 1942, at which time provision can be made for
the substitution of any notes then held by the Treasury with
a reneval issue. Provisions will be made whereby the

124

-2-

Corporation may at its option at any time before saturity pay
all or any part of the amount due on the notes issued by 12.

This will provide flexibility and permit current reseipts in
excess of the Corporation's requirements to be immediately
applied to the reduction of its indebtedness.

It is understood that stops will be taken to obtain
the necessary authorisation from the Board of Directors of
the Corporation to casey out this arrangement.
Very truly yours,

(Signed) D. W. BELL

Secretary of the Treasury.

acting

Honorable A. 0. Black,
President,

Federal Farm Mortgage Corporation,
Washington, D. C.

WTH:mlb 11-27-41

Prepared by: Mr. Barnett
Mr. Foy
Mr. Murphy
Mr. Haas

125
PARTMENT

INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE November 27,
1941.

Secretary Morgenthau

TO

FROM

Mr. Has

Subject: Recent Changes in Excess Reserves and Interest Rates
I.

Recent Changes in Excess Reserves

In our memorandum of November 13 we pointed out that
excess reserves of New York City banks have been much harder

hit by the developments of the past year than excess reserves of all member banks, and that excess reserves in New

York City occupy a critical position in the money market. A
pinch in excess reserves in New York City could cause a substantial rise in short-term interest rates, which might
possibly spread to long-term interest rates, even if the re-

serve position of member banks outside of New York City were
fairly easy.
Excess reserves of member banks at New York City amounted

to $773 millions on November 5, the first reporting date after
the increase in requirements. This Was a decline of 79 percent from the all-time high of $3,675 millions reached on
June 19, 1940. Movements since the outbreak of the war in
excess reserves at all member banks and at member banks in
New York City are shown in Chart I.

In the course of preparing our previous memorandum, we
consulted with Mr. Roelse of the Federal Reserve Bank of New

York with respect to the probable future course of excess
reserves. He estimated that the excess reserves of all member banks would decline by about $375 millions between

November 5 and December 24, the probable date of the seasonal

high of currency in circulation. Of this decline, he expected
that about $250 millions would occur in New York City. After
the seasonal decline of money in circulation (which he expected to be completed by the end of January), Mr. Roelse
believed that excess reserves would continue to decline,
slowly at all member banks and more rapidly at New York.

Secretary Morgenthau - 2

126

In the two weeks between November 5 and November 19 (the

last reporting date now available), excess reserves of all

member banks have increased by $278 millions. During this
period Treasury cash and deposits with the Federal Reserve
Banks have decreased by $346 millions. This has the effect
of increasing excess reserves by about 80 percent of the

amount of the decrease. Except for this one factor, therefore, excess reserves during the two-week period would have
remained almost unchanged. The decrease in the Treasury

balance is, of course, a temporary factor which will be off-

set at the time of the next financing. As this will occur

prior to December 24, Mr. Roelse quite properly made no allowance for a decrease in the Treasury balance in making his
estimate of changes in excess reserves for the November 5December 24 period.

During the two-week period, November 5 to November 19,

money in circulation increased $114 millions and monetary
gold stock decreased $10 millions. These changes, which
would have caused a decrease in reserves of $124 millions,
were almost exactly offset by increases of $61 millions in
"other Reserve Bank credit" and $7 millions in "Treasury
currency" and a decrease of $58 millions in "non-member deposits and other Federal Reserve accounts". Most of these
factors will be of little importance over any considerable
period. Unless a considerable volume of funds now frozen
in the Federal Reserve Banks are used to purchase securities
(which would tend to increase excess reserves via a decrease
in "non-member deposits"), the only one of them which is
likely to exert a continuing influence between now and
Christmas is money in circulation. There is no reason, therefore, on the basis of the experience of the last two weeks,
to set aside Mr. Roelse's estimate of the probable decrease
of excess reserves of all member banks between now and
Christmas.

Mr. Roelse estimated that excess reserves of New York
City banks would decrease by about $250 millions between
November 5 and December 24. Actually, they have increased

by $192 millions during the first two weeks of this period.
Most of this increase is probably due to the decrease in the

Treasury balance during the period, but the proportion due
to this cause cannot be estimated with any degree of accuracy for a portion of the banking system.
Mr. Roelse's estimate for the entire period to Christmas
is predicated upon a continuation of the outflow of funds
from New York which has been going on for over a year. During the two-week period, there was actually an inflow of

Secretary Morgenthau - 3

funds to New York, but this may well have been merely a

temporary interruption of the long-term tendency. In the
case of excess reserves at New York also, therefore, it
seems too early to appraise Mr. Roelse's foreoast.

II. Changes in Interest Rates
Short-term interest rates firmed while long-term rates
crease in reserve requirements and its effective date. Since
the effective date, short-term rates have continued to harden,
while long-term rates have also risen slightly. This is
shown in the following table which compares the yields of
three Treasury securities of widely varying maturity classes
continued to decline between the announcement of the in-

as of September 23, November 1, and November 26, respectively:

Changes in Yields of Treasury Securities
September 23 - November 26, 1941
Sept. 23

Nov. 1

Nov. 26

(Percent)

2-1/2's of 3/15/56-58
3/4's of 9/15/44
91-Day bills (Average yield

of last issue)

2.15

2.08

2.11

.60

.72

.80

.04

.07

.27

What will be the future tendency of rates is hard, as
always, to predict. If excess reserves at New York follow

Mr. Roelse's forecast, it is likely that short rates will

continue to firm. Whether such a tendency would spread to
long rates is more questionable. The Federal Reserve Board

appears to believe that it will not. It 18 interesting to

note, however, that in 1937, when the Board held a similar
expectation, long-term bond prices finally broke sharply
after continuing strong for three months, during which
short-term securities had been acutely weak (Chart II).
Attachments

Chlababe

EXCESS RESERVES AND INTERBANK DEPOSITS
DOLLARS

DOLLARS

BILLIONS

BILLIONS

7

7
6

6

EXCESS RESERVES.
ALL MEMBER BANKS

5
5

DOMESTIC INTERBANK DEPOSITS,

N.Y.C. BANKS
4

4

3

3

EXCESS RESERVES,

N.Y.C. BANKS
2

2

I
0
N

J

N

J

N

$

I

Office of the Secretary of the Treasury
Division of Research and Statistics

J

939

1940

$

M
J

1941

$

M
M
0

J

M

- 942

F-219

II

Cha

EFFECT OF PAST CHANGES IN RESERVE REQUIRENENTS

ON YIELDS OF U. 8. SECURITIES

936

PERCENT

1937

1938

PERCENT

(INVERTED)

(INVERTED)

Jan. 30

3315 Increase
Announced

May 1

.8

.8

145 Increase
Effective

1.0

1.0

3-5 YEAR NOTES
Mar. 1

1.2

1.2

10% Increase

Effective

April 14
10% Decrease
Announced

Effective

1.4

1.4

April 16

July 14
50% Increase

1.6

1.6

Announced

Aug. 16

505 Increase

Effective

2.4

2.4

LONG TERM TREASURY BONDS
W

2.6

2.6

2.8

2.8

3.0

3.0
M
J

1936

M
J

M

$

M

1937

.

M
J

M

J

$

.

J

.

19 38

Office of the Secretary of the Treasury

Burden / - I

F - 211

129

CONFIDENTIAL

UNITED STATES SAVINGS BONDS

Comparative Statement of Sales During
First Twenty Business Days of September, October, and November, 1941
(September 1-24, October 1-23, November 1-26)
On Basis of Issue Price

(Amounts in thousands of dollars)

:

:

:

:
:

$ 30,959

$ 1,938

Series E - Banks

62,919

60,050

53,559

2,869

Series E - Total

96,356
16,206
91,026

91,549
16,853
92,986

84,518
13,676
84,464

4,807

$203,589

$201,388

$182,658

Series F - Banks
Series G - Banks
Total

: September
541

$

:

:

$ 31,500

:

:

$ 33,438

Series E - Post Offices

over

:

:

:

over
October

Percentage of Increase
or Decrease (-)
November : October
over

October

over

:

:

: November : October : September

:

:

or Decrease (-)
November : October

:

Item

Amount of Increase

:

Sales

: September

6.2%

1.7%

6,491

4.8

12.1

5.3

647

- 1,960

7,031
3,177
8,522

8.3
23.2
10.1

$ 2,201

$18,730

1.1%

10.3%

-

Office of the Secretary of the Treasury, Division of Research and Statistics.

- 3.8
- 2.1

November 27, 1941.

Source: All figures are deposits with the Treasurer of the United States on account of proceeds of
sales of United States Savings Bonds.

Note: Figures have been rounded to nearest thousand and will not necessarily add to totals.

130
UNITED STATES SAVINGS BONDS

Daily Sales - November 1941

On Basis of Issue Price
(In thousands of dollars)

Post Office
Bond Sales
Date

10,288

9,569
6,862
7,515
5,412

5,502
2,967
5,110
3.754

936

5,312
4,145
3.107
2,375

11,750
7,714
8,764
6,603

3,259
4,025
4,811

7,897
7,320
8,903

6,564
3,636
4,788

797
612

3,259
4,025
4,811

10,621
8,273
10,405

4,542
1,987

9,669
5,631

6,475
3.976

1,149

4,542
1,987

12,166
6,804

8,485
6,662
9,337

6,068
3,467
5,290

753
969

3.996
3,387
4,631

10,817
7,491
10,890

$170,151

$ 96,356

$ 16,206

$ 91,026

$203,589

6,798
3,879
2,869
5,867
6,340
4,402

3,383

994

3,459

7,836

3,321
2,115
3,862
2,563

936

5,312
4,145
3,107
2,375

797
612

2,452

12

2,181

13

852

2,724

3,459

13,954
10,761
6,232
11,850
14,816
4,922

1,442

352

9,092
7,205
3,794
6,962
9,280
1,457

10

17

994

$ 2,767

1,442

15

5,835

$ 6,518

3,421
2,818
1,694
3,899
4,278
3,113

1,249
1,191

17,332
11,822
7,407
13,818
16,878
6,211

$ 4,201

3,377
1,061
1,175
1,968
2,062
1,289

14

352

9,092
7,205
3,794
6,962
9,280
1,457

567

$ 1,750

8

$ 7.535

Series E

$ 1,017

7

$ 4,201

Total

November 1941

6

Total

Series G

Series E

5

Series G

$

738

744
988

1,258

602
547
473

18

953

19

1,503

3,840
2,683
3,285

2,497
1,173

1,149

22

3,978
2,803

24

2,332

753

1,553

3.736
2,638
3,737

969

3.996
3,387
4,631

$ 33,438

$ 62,919

$ 16,206

$ 91,026

21

25
26

Total

Series F

Series F

Series E

1

All Bond Sales

Bank Bond Sales

829

807

840

637

567

$

738

744
988

1,258

602
547
473

807

840

637

Office of the Secretary of the Treasury, Division of Research and Statistics.

November 27, 1941.

Source: All figures are deposits with the Treasurer of the United States on account of proceeds of sales of
United States Savings Bonds.

Note: Figures have been rounded to nearest thousand and will not necessarily add to totals.

131
SECURITY

D

VETERANS ADMINISTRATION
WASHINGTON

November 27, 1941.

OFFICE OF

THE ADMINISTRATOR OF
VETERANS AFFAIRS

Honorable Henry Morgenthau, Jr.,
The Secretary of the Treasury,
Washington, D. C.

My dear Mr. Secretary:

I have had opportunity to review the
economy suggestions you submitted to the Joint
Committee on Reduction of Non-Defense Expenditures

and I wish to congratulate you upon the excellence
of your presentation.

I think we all realize the problems before
the country at this time in connection with the
cost of government and defense and the Veterans

Administration is, I assure you, exerting every

proper means to maintain economy in administration.
Sincerely yours,

FRANK T. HINES,

Administrator.

author T. Vandebet 132

Thank N.P. .

Start John Templete
Chicage, Ill.

133

Eroin growsed

John Maguire

Harvard Law School

Bernhard Kuollenberg
yala University

+ Brach
Harry the Silverson
19 Rector that
new york

Edward I Reid
Penobacot Blog

Detroit

Harley Staveus 134

Standard oil Co

225 Bush ST
San Francisco

135

TREASURY DEPARTMENT
INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE November 27
1941
TO

The Secretary

FROM

Mr. Blough

The attached list of economists with tax experience

in the Federal service (not including those in the
Treasury Department) has been prepared in accordance

with your request. The list, although compiled on the
basis of the Directory of Federal Statistical Agencies
and the National Roster of Scientific and Specialized
Personnel, as well as personal knowledge, is not necessarily complete.

RB

136
Economists with tax experience in the Federal Service*
Barkmeier, Joseph H. - Economist - Department of Commerce

Burr, Mrs. S. S. - Senior Economist - Federal Reserve Board
Colm, Gerhard - Principal Fiscal Analyst - Bureau of Budget
Despres, Emile - Principal Economist - Coordinator of
Information

Driver, John C. - Senior Economist - Office of Production
Management

Dulles, Mrs. E. L. - Principal Analyst - Social Security
Board

Fleming, John W. - Economist - Office of Emergency Management

Gilbert, Richard - Division Chief - Office GI Price
Administration

Goldsmith, Raymond - Division Assistant Director Securities Exchange Commission

Hanson, Alvin - Consultant - Federal Reserve Board
Higgins, Benjamin - Principal Economist - Federal Works Agency

Hynning, Clifford - Senior Economic Analyst - Office of
Price Administration
Jaszi, George - Associate Economist - Federal Reserve Board

Kilpatrick, Wylie - Senior Economist - Bureau of Census
Krost, Martin - Senior Economist - Federal Reserve Board
Labovitz, I. M. - Senior Economist - Bureau of Budget
Lovass, Lealie - Economist - Tariff Commission
Musgrave, Richard - Associate Economist - Federal Reserve
Board

Nelson, Richard W. - Division Chief - U. S. Forest Service,
Department of Agriculture

137

-2Rightor, Chester - Division Chief - Bureau of Census
Salant, W. S. - Economist - Office of Price Administration
Stigler, George J. - Consultant - Securities Exchange
Commission

Studenski, Paul - Consultant - Social Security Board
Sundelson, J. W. - Consultant - Social Security Board
Treanor, Richard G. - Senior Economist - Tariff Commission
Woodworth, Leo D. - Economist - Federal Works Agency

Wynne, William H. - Senior Economist - Office of Price
Administration

*

Not including those in the Treasury Department.

138
November 27, 1941

Dear Archie:

Thank you for your letter of November 26.
I assume that your inter-departmental committee
is the successor to the one which was formed
under Mayor LaGuardia's auspices.

of course it is entirely up to you

whether or not to issue a press release about
the personnel of this committee. The draft

which you sent me is perfectly satisfactory to

me if you find it necessary to publish it. I
appreciate your thoughtfulness in sending it
to me.

As I told you when we last discussed the

Office of Facts and Figures, I should like you
to count on my complete cooperation in this
vitally important job which you are doing.
Sincerely,
(Signed)

Henry

Hon. Archibald MacLeish,

Director, Office of Facts and Figures,
Washington, D. C.

FK/hkb

11/27/41

cc Thompson

OFFICE OF FACTS AND FIGURES

139

WASHINGTON

November 26, 1941

THE DIRECTOR

My dear Mr. Secretary:

It may shortly become necessary to announce the
personnel of the inter-departmental advisory committee to the
Office of Facts and Figures which we have called "The Committee
on Defense Information". Should there be a news "leak" concern-

ing the meetings of the Committee, the resulting stories would
certainly be inaccurate. It would seem to be preferable, therefore, to announce the actual situation in advance of any such
unauthorized publication. Moreover, since the Office of Facts
and Figures was established by the President to provide the pub-

lic with fuller information on defense programs and policies, it

would seem to me to be appropriate that the Office of Facts and
Figures should keep the public informed of its organization.

Since, however, the announcement involves your Depart-

ment, I should like you to see the proposed release before it is
made public. I should appreciate any comments you might care to
make as to its form, or any other circumstances in connection with
it, and therefore I am enclosing a copy of the proposed statement.
May I tell you again how deeply I appreciate your cooperation in
this undertaking which seems to me to be one of considerable
potential usefulness.

Faithfully yours,

am hunch

Archibald MacLeish

Director, Office of Facts and Figures
Enclosure
The Honorable

Henry Morgenthau, Jr.

Secretary of the Treasury
Washington, D. C.

140

Statement by Archibald MacLeish, Director, Office of Facts and Figures
For Immediate Release

Archibald MacLeish, Director of the Office of Facts and Figures,
announced today that an interdepartmental committee to be known as the
Committee on Defense Information had been formed to advise the Office
of Facts and Figures in its task of extending and improving the country's
information on the defense effort.
Members of the Committee on Defense Information were designated,

in the case of the Departments, by their respective Secretaries; in

other cases by the heads of the agencies who have elected in some instances to serve themselves. The personnel is as follows:

James C. Dunn, Adviser on Political Relations to the Secretary
of State

Ferdinand Kuhn, Special Assistant to the Secretary of the
Treasury

John J. McCley, Assistant Secretary of War

Adlai Stevenson, Special Assistant to the Secretary of the Navy
Le M. C. Smith, Special Assistant to the Attorney General
Lowell Mellett, Director, Office of Government Re ports
Wayne Coy, Liaison Officer, Office for Emergency Management
Oscar Cox, General Counsel, Lend-Lease Administration

Captain Robert E. Kintner, U. S. A., Board of office of Facts
and Figures

Archibald MacLeish, Director of the Office of Facts and Figures,
Chairman

The office of Facts and Figures is charged with the responsibility,
under the direction and supervision of the President, for formulating
programs designed "to facilitate a widespread and accurate understanding of
the status and progress of the national defense effort and of the defense
policies and activities of the Government". The interdepartmental
Committee on Defense Information will advise with the Office of Facts and
Figures on ways and means of increasing the amount of public information

on defense activities and policies.

141
- 2-

Mr. Mac Leish also announced that the following are nos engaged in
organising the Office of Facts and Figures:
Captain Robert E. Kintner, United States Army

Mr. William B. Lewis. Vice President, Columbia Broadcastin
System, on leave of absence

Mr. John R. Fleming, detailed from the Department of Agriculture
Mr. Douglas Meservey, Program Sales Manager, National Broadcasting
Company

Mr. Rensis Likert, detailed from the Department of Agriculture
Mr. George Barnes, detailed from the Department of Agriculture
Mr. Alan Barth, detailed from the Treasury Department
Mrs. Delia Kuhn

dr. Lowell Mellett, Director of the Office of Government Reports

has accepted an appointment as a member of the Board of the office of

Facts and Figures.

In announcing the organizing staff of the Office of Facts and Figures,
Mr. MacLeish said, "The Office of Facts and Figures will operate
principally within the government, as an intra-governmental clearing house
and adviser on public information on the defense program. Its task will
be to obtain additional facts and figures for the average citizen on the
defense program."
is

a

142

NOV 27 1941

Dear Mr. President:

I have the honor to recommend the appointment of
Honorable Man Wood Honeyman of Portland, Oregon, as Col-

lector of Customs for Customs Collection District No. 29,

with headquarters at Portland, Oregon, to succeed Judge

Fred Fisk whose term of office will expire on April 30,
1942.

Mrs. Honeyman is sixty years of age. She was
educated in the Portland schools and was graduated from
St. Nelene Hall and later attended Finch School in
New York. the was elected a Representative to the State
Legislature in 1934 and served during the regular and
special sessions of 1935. Mrs. Honeyman was elected to
the Seventy-fifth Congress representing the Third
Congressional District of Oregon and served from January,
1936 to January, 1938.

I am transmitting herewith a nomination for
Mrs. Honeyman's appointment.

Faithfully yours,
(Signed) N. Morgenthaw. Jr.

The President,
The White House.

n.m.c.
Handled by Thompson

143

THE WHITE HOUSE
, 194

To the

SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES
I nominate MAN WOOD HONEYMAN of Portland, Oregon,

to be Collector of Customs for Customs Collection District
No. 29, with headquarters at Portland, Oregon, to succeed

Judge Fred Fisk whose term of office will expire on

April 30, 1942.

144

NOV 27 1941

My dear Mr. Secretary

Civil sireraft arriving in the United Statos from
a foreign port or place are required by the Air Commerce
Act of 1926, as amended (U.S.C. title 49, sec. 177) and
the regulations thereunder, to make the first landing

at an airport of entry unless permission to land elsewhere is obtained in advance from the Commissioner of

Customs, Washington, D. C.

The term "civil aircraft" does not include aircraft
used exclusively in the governmental service of the
United States or a foreign country and not carrying persons or property for commercial purposes. Therefore,

military and naval aircraft arriving in the United

States are not subject to the requirement cited. How-

over, a and baggage brought into the United

States on such aircraft are subject to custome entry,
examination, and payment of duties, if any are due, in

the same senner as like merchandise and baggage brought

in by other modes of transportation.

In order to assist the customs service of this
Department in the enforcement of the laws which it is
charged to administer, it is requested that you issue
appropriate instructions to the commanding officers at
U. S. air bases and to the operators of naval and

military aircraft under your jurisdiction so that in
the event any merchandise or baggage is brought into

the United States in military or naval aircraft, the

nearest custome officer will be notified immediately and

the merchandise or baggage held intact until customs
inspection and clearance can be had. A similar request
is being made of the Secretary of Mar.

145

-2This Department would like advice as to any instructions which you may issue so that the customs
officers may be appropriately informed. Your coopers-

tion in this matter will be greatly appreciated.
Very truly yours,

(Signed) Herbert E. Gaston

Acti Secretary of the Treasury.

The Honorable,

The Secretary of the Navy.

LPJ:mc

11/26/41

146
NOV 27 1941

MEMORANDUM FOR MR. MACK:

I understand that in the past few years starts

have been made at an overall study of procurement

problems and policy, in an attempt better to carry
out the function of Government procurement. Instances of these are (1) A study of steel costs,
prices and profits made under the direction of
Admiral Peoples in 1936 or 1937; (a) $ study of
Government purchasing activities, prepared for the
TNEC under Admiral Peoples' direction; (3) An
economic commentary on Government purchasing, also

prepared for the TNEC under the direction of
Dr. Morris A. Copeland of the Bureau of the Budget
(Monograph 19, TNEC) , and (4) A special study of

special treatment steel prices of the CarnegleIllinois Steel Corporation (prepared in the Federal
Works Agency in November, 1939).

The defense program has made these studies obsolete.

Starting with these reports, however, it should be possible
to assemble essential data on cost and prices without
which the Government is in no position to negotiate a
contract with a supplier at a reasonable price.

I am particularly interested in the steel industry

and I should like you to prepare for me as promptly as

possible a report on the situation in that Industry
with particular reference to its costs and prices.

I have also asked Mr. Norman Cann, Assistant to the
Commissioner of Internal Revenue to make a similar report

regarding profits in the steel industry.

In addition I should like you to submit a memorandum
to me indicating what steps you are taking to meet the
problem of purchasing at reasonable prices during this
period when, admittedly, we are no longer in a position

to rely on the forces of competition to protect us on

price.

JJO'C.Jr/Lsw
11-27-41

(Initialed) H. M., Jr.

147
November 27, 1941

My dear Mr. Hoover:

I am writing to acknowledge re-

ceipt of your two confidential letters
dated November 25th.

The informa-

tion contained therein has been noted

with interest.
Yours sincerely,
(Signed) 1. Morgenthan,

Mr. J. Edgar Hoover,

Federal Bureau of Investigation,
Department of Justice,

Washington, D. C.

148

11/27/41

Photostatic copies to:
Mr. Foley
Mr. Pehle

JOHN EDGAR HOOVER

149

DIRECTOR

Federal Bureau of Investigation
Matted States Department of Justice
n

Washington, D. C.

November 25, 1941
PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL
BY SPECIAL MESSENGER

The Honorable

The Secretary of the Treasury
Washington, D. C.

My dear Mr. Secretary:

As of possible interest to you, information has been
received from a confidential, reliable source that the Swiss
Minister, E. Traversini, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, during July, 1941,
in discussing methods of payment to effect the liquidation of
Swiss frozen credits in Brazil and the proposals of the Swiss
National Bank and the Bank of Brazil in regard to this matter,
said that the Bank of Brazil suggested the liquidation of frozen
Swiss credits according to the following plan:

1. In order that the Bank of Brazil can legally clear
the drafts which are outstanding, it should be in a position

to declare that it has received an amount of milreis
corresponding to a similar amount in Swiss francs. According to the suggestion of the Swiss National Bank, the Bank
of Brazil would pay out from the milreis thus received, a
sum equivalent to the required amount in dollars, while for
the drawee the question would still remain open as to
whether the dollars thus acquired could finally be converted
into Swiss francs for an amount great enough to produce the

amount in Swiss francs, of the respective drafts.
2. The suggestion of the Bank of Brazil, according to the
official information of the Director of Exchange of this
establishment, would consist of the following procedure:
(a) The Swiss National Bank would place at the
disposal of the Bank of Brazil a sum in Swiss francs to

the amount necessary to cover the needs corresponding to
the accumulated credits of the Swiss exporters.

150

The Honorable

-2-

The Secretary of the Treasury

(b) Against these Swiss francs, the Bank of Brazil
would place at the disposal of the Swiss National Bank the
sum in dollars equivalent to the amount of the Swiss francs

converted at a rate of Swiss francs 4.34 to the dollar.
(c) The Bank of Brazil would place these dollars
at the disposal of the Swiss National Bank wherever the

Swiss National Bank wished to draw upon them in the
United States.

According to the information received, the Swiss Minister
feels that there is every reason to believe that the formula for

liquidation finally adopted by the two Banks would become the
compulsory method of settlement for other banking institutions of

the two countries interested in the liquidation of Swiss credits.
Sincerely yours,

I ie. 24oover

11/27/41

Photostatic copies to:
Mr. Foley
Mr. Pehle

151

152

JOHN LOGAR HOOVER
DIRECTOR

Federal Surran of Investigation
Antted States Department of Justice
Washington, D. C.
PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL
November 25, 1941

ii

BY SPECIAL MESSENGER

The Honorable

The Secretary of the Treasury
Washington, D. C.

My dear Mr. Secretary:

The Boston Field Division of this Bureau has
been advised by Mr. Henry P. Melzer, Assistant Manager
of the Foreign Department of the First National Bank
of Boston, Massachusetts, that that Bank has been
sending to various payees in Norway sums of money for
the purpose of supporting families of seamen and others

in this country.

Mr. Melser stated that he had recently been
informed, through the National City Bank in New York,
that the Oslo Bank, through which these funds clear,
has written that no more money will be paid to the
payees when the remitters are seamen, unless the name

of the ship of the remitter and the last voyage of the
ship be given. Mr. Melzer indicated that this might

be a German method of learning the movements of merchant
ships.

Please be advised that this matter has been
discussed with the officials of the War, Navy and State
Departments and in the opinion of these Departments the
information requested should not be given. The Boston
Field Division of this Bureau has been instructed to
advise Mr. Melzer of the attitude of the Departments
named.

Sincerely yours,

)

be.

above

153
November 27, 1941.
MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY'S FILES:

A meeting relative to the administration of Executive
Order 8389 was held in Mr. Foley's office at 4:30 P. M. on

November 26, 1941, attended from time to time by the following:

Messrs. Foley (Chairman), B. Bernstein, Pehle, Dietrich,
E. M. Bernstein and Aikin for Treasury; Messrs. Acheson, Luthringer
and Fisher for State; Messrs. Shea and Swidler for Justice; and
Mr. Knapp for the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System.

Mr. Pehle reported that the North Africa licenses had
been revoked and that transactions in respect to trade with that
area would henceforth be handled on a specific license basis.
J. P. Morgan & Company, New York, according to Henry

Alexander of that firm, who had been in to see Mr. Pehle, is
holding $9,784,000 for the French Government in respect to the

servicing and amortization of the French Government 7% and 72%

issues, some of which do not mature until 1949. These funds are

about sufficient to take care of both issues. Mr. Pehle said

that Morgan & Company desire to execute a trust instrument, the

effect of which would be irrevocably to set aside these funds for

the exclusive purpose of servicing the 7% and 72% issues and

paying them on maturity. To maintain their present fiscal agency
arrangements with the French Government, Morgan & Company are

anxious to execute the trust instrument so that if there is a
change in the present French Government no new instructions with
respect to the funds which Morgan & Company is holding for the
bond issues would be valid. There was considerable discussion but
no decision reached as to what Morgan & Company should be advised.

The matter will be raised at a future meeting after it has been
further considered.

Mr. Pehle reported that BIS under license had been
investing their funds held at the New York Federal Reserve Bank in
short term bankers acceptances. While recognizing the inflationary
aspects of these operations, it was observed that they are presently
confined to relatively small amounts, and it was agreed that the BIS
should be permitted to continue to invest its funds in this manner.

The Monetary Research Division and the Federal Reserve Board will
make appropriate recommendations to the committee if at any point
it should appear advisable.

154
TREASURY DEPARTMENT

Washington
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

November 27, 1941

Press Service
No. 28-64

The Treasury Department today issued a general license liberal-

izing the freezing control restrictions with respect to certain

classes of refugees who have been residing within the United States

since June 17, 1940.

General License No. 42, issued on June 14, 1941 freed the accounts of bona fide refugees who had been both domiciled and resident
in the United States since specified dates in 1940. The new General
License No. 42A conferred similar privileges on those refugees who
could comply with the residence and other requirements of General
License No. 42 but could not meet the domicile requirement.

The Treasury's decision to make this liberalization was prompted
by a special study of the census reports which have been filed on
Form TFR-300. It was explained that because of the difficulties connected with obtaining immigration visas many refugees had been barred
from the privileges of General License No. 42. It was also pointed
out that in many other cases there was doubt as to whether the
refugee could satisfy the domicile requirements of General License
No. 42. It now will be unnecessary to resolve that point because
such persons may take advantage of the new General License No. 42A.

Attention was called to the fact that while the property of per-

sons licensed under General License No. 42 need not have been reported on census report Form TFR-300 no such exemption was made under
the new General License No. 42A. The new general license expressly

states that such reports are required to have been filed.

154
TREASURY DEPARTMENT

Washington
FOR IMOEDIATE RELEASE

November 27, 1941

Press Service
No. 28-64

The Treasury Department today issued a general license liberal-

izing the freezing control restrictions with respect to certain

classes of refugees who have been residing within the United States

since June 17, 1940.

General License No. 42, issued on June 14, 1941 freed the accounts of bona fide refugees who had been both domiciled and resident
in the United States since specified dates in 1940. The new General
License No. 42A conferred similar privileges on those refugees who
could comply with the residence and other requirements of General
License No. 42 but could not meet the domicile requirement.

The Treasury's decision to make this liberalization was prompted
by a special study of the census reports which have been filed on
Form TFR-300. It was explained that because of the difficulties connected with obtaining immigration visas many refugees had been barred
from the privileges of General License No. 42. It was also pointed
out that in many other cases there was doubt as to whether the
refugee could satisfy the domicile requirements of General License
No. 42. It now will be unnecessary to resolve that point because
such persons may take advantage of the new General License No. 42A.

Attention was called to the fact that while the property of per-

sons licensed under General License No. 42 need not have been reported on census report Form TFR-300 no such exemption was made under
the new General License No. 42A. The new general license expressly

states that such reports are required to have been filed.

155

0

FEDERAL RESERVE BANK
OF NEW YORK

November 27, 1941

CONFIDENTIAL

Dear Mr. Secretary: Attention: Mr. H. Merle Cochran
I am enclosing our compilation for the week
ended November 19, 1941, showing dollar disbursements

out of the British Empire and French accounts at this
bank and the means by which these expenditures were
financed.

Faithfully yours,
/s/ L. W. Knoke,
L. W. Knoke,

Vice President.

Honorable Henry Morgenthau, Jr.,
Secretary of the Treasury,
Washington, D. C.
Enclosure

Copy: will-28-41

ANALYSTS OF BRITISH AND PRONCH ACCOUNTS

Week Ended November

(In Millions of Dollars)

DEBITS
Total
Debits

PERIOD

Gov't
Expendi-

tures(a)

First year of war
(8/29/39-8/28/40)*
War period through
December. 1940

Second year of war

UZ9745-8/27/41)

BANK OF ENGLAND (BRITISH GOVERNMENT

BANK

CREDITS

Other

Debits

Proceeds of
Sales of
Securities
Gold
(Official)(b)

Total
Credits

1,187.61,828.22,356.1

Other

Net Incr.
(+) or
Decr.(-)

Credita(c

Hn Balance

FRANCH

OF

DEBITS

CREDITS

But Incr.
(+) or
Dear. (-)

Total

Gov't
Expendi-

Other

Other

tures (d)

Debita

Total
Credits

of Gold

Debita

Sales

Credits

in Balance

Proceeds

52.0

420.1

35.0

866.3(e)

416.6(e)

449.7

1,095.3(e)

900.2

195.1(e)

+229.0

2,109.5

108.0

575.6

10.8

878.3

421.4

456.9

1,098.4

900.2

198.2

+220.1

1,193.7

274.0

722.1

- 13.2

38.9

4.8

34.1

8.8

8.8

- 30.1

176.2

20.1

2.0

154.1

35.3

0.3

0.3

0.5

0.5

0.2

150.9

0.8

150.1

+41.9

0.3

0.3

0.3

1,793.2

605.6

2,792.3

1,425.6

1.356.72.793.1

2,203.0

1,792.2

410.82.189.8

140.9

105.9

35.0

109.0

27.3

31.2

-

1941
-

-

-

Aug. 28 Oct. 1
Oct. 2-Oct. 29
Oct. 30 Dec. 3

0.3

Dec. 4- Dec. 37
1942

WEEK ENDED:

Nov. 5
12

19

46.5
20.2

15.4
29.2
16.0

29.6

20.1

23.8

8.4

108.7

17.3

16.2
16.4

4.2

-

108.7
16.2

9.5(f) 25.3(g)

Toukly Expenditures Since Outbreak of LAP

(earoug Jung 19-1949) 199.0 adidas
England (through June 19.1940) 27.6 million

England (since June 19,1940 43.0 million

*For monthly breakdown see tabulations prior to April 23, 1941.
ooFor monthly breakdown 800 tabulations prior to October 8, 1941.
(See attached sheet for other footnotes)

8.84.9

-

-

-

-

0.1

-

-

0.1

16.4

02

-

0.1
0.2

0.1

-

-30.3
..3.8

0.1

-

0.1

-

25.3(b) .4.3

15.1

-

=

Oct. 29

sur

-

Feek ended November 19, 1941

162.7

0.6
-15.1

15.1(1)

Purchasing Commonion to
Transfers from
Bank of Canada for French Account

Cumulation from July 6, 1940

=

AL

million
million

(a)

Includes
payments
for and
account
of British
Purchasing Commission, British Air Ministry, British Supply Board, Ministry of
Supply
Timber
Control,
Ministry
of Shipping.
(b) Estimated figures based on transfers from the New York Agency of the Bank of Montreal, which apparently represent the

proceeds of official Brit ish sales of American securities, including those effected through direct negitiation. In
to the official selling, substantial liquidation of securities for private British account occurred, particularly during addition the
early months of the war, although the receipt of the proceeds at this Bank cannot be ident ified with any accuracy. According
to our
datasecurities
suppliedthrough
by the December,
British Treasury
and released
by million.
Secretary Morgenthau, total official and private British liquidation
of
1940 amounted
to $334

(a) Includes about $85 million received during October, 1939 from the accounts of British authorized banks with New York banks,
presumably 1939 reflecting the requisitioning of private dollar balances. Other large transfers from such accounts since October,
receipts. apparently represent the acquisition of proceeds of exports from the sterling area and other currently accruing dollar
(d) Includes payments for account of French Air Commission and French Purchasing Commission.

(e) Adjusted to eliminate the effect of $20 million paid out on June 26, 1940 and returned the following day.
(f) Includes $4.6 million transforred to de Javasche Bank account.
(g) Includes >9.3 million of "overnight" items received on November 19 but not actually credited until November 21.
of Turkey.
(h) Includes
$3.5 million transferred from Commonwealth Bank of Australia account and $1.0 million from account of Central Bank

possessions
in Africa.
(1) $15.0
million paid,
under license, to New York account of French Paymaster General to cover exports from U. S. to French

DEBIT
Transfers

Prooseds

to

Official
Debits

PERIOD

A/C

Britten A/C

323.0

December 1940
Second year of war

477.2

10/29/10-8/27/01

Aug. 2 Oct. 1

16.6
16.6

460.4

-

23.1

-

Dec. 31

37.4

Proceeds

Total

Brittah

in Badanos

Debite

A/C

Net Incr.

of

(-) or

Debite

Sales

A/C

A/C

306.4

504.7

412.7

20.9

38.7

32.4

+181.7

31.2

3.9

27.3

36.1

30.0

6.1

+ 4.9

534.8

20.9

110.7

41.0

+230.2

57.9

14.5

13.4

62.4

50.1

12.3

4.5

3.4

123.9

88.5
31.0

+ 1.6

29.1

22.2

16.7

53.5

81.2

05

62.9

18.3

10.7

10.2

2.8

2.1

0.7

.79

7.8

- 17.7

8.2

5.5.

2.7

8.0

5.9

2.1.

0.2

For Outo

460.6

707.4

460.4

462.0

246.2

23.1

52.2

21.2

37.4

19.7

For French

-

-

1941

Oct. 10 Oct. 29
Oct. 30 - Doc. 3

to

official

(c) or
Dear. (-)

Total
Credits

Other

First your of war
(8/29/39-8/28/40)*
Bar period through

Not Tear.

11.9

-

Other

Credits

Other

Total

Debite

Credits

Gold

Sales

Other

Credits

Dear. (-)

in Balanoe

+

British

of
Gold

tremefore

Transfers from Official

+

Total

-

CREDIT

1942

WEEK ENDED:

Oct. 29

16.8

Nox 5

9.0

12

10

0.1

8.0

12.7

-

16.8
8.9

3.9

2.7

-

-

1.2

12.9

3.2

-

-

8.0

6.1
4.5

20

20

0.2
2.1

-

2.1

EXA

0.1

0.3
0.5

-

0.1

3.2

2.1

- 9.5

6.2

12.2

3.5

3.5

3.6

-

Weekly Average of Total Debits Since Outbreak of War
Million
7.5
through November 19, 1941

For monthly breakdown see tabulations prior to April 23, 1941.
.. For monthly breakdown see tabulations prior to October 8, 1941.

-

0.9
1.1

0.2

0.7

0.3
5.6

+0.1

0.5
0.6

-1.6

0.7

-2.8

+6.1

9.0

TREASURY DEPARTMENT

159

INTER OFFICE COMMUNICATION

DATE November 27,1941
TO

FROM

Secretary Morgenthau
Mr. White

Subject: British Film Settlement
Appended 18 the information you requested on the
settlement the British Government has made with American

film companies operating in England. The following are
the outstanding points in the agreement:
1. Transfer of accumulated sterling balances.
a. The 8 agreement companies may, as a group,

transfer 50% of the blocked sterling held on
October 26. The transfer may be made in 2 installments, on October 30, 1941 and on April 1,
1942, the 2 installments to be equal except that
the first will be an estimated amount subject to

correction in April. Sir Frederick estimates
the blocked sterling accounts to amount to $40
million, of which $20 million will be transferred
in the 2 installments.

b. The non-agreement companies may also transfer

50% of their blocked sterling. Sir Frederick has
estimated their blocked funds at $1 million.
2. Transfers of revenues for the film year, October 27,
1941 to October 26, 1942.

a. The agreement companies may by means of transfers

at the end of each quarter transfer up to $20 million
during the year. This amount will be reduced, however, by the agreement made by Warner Brothers, on
the occasion of their purchase of British cinema
properties, to leave a substantial portion of their
revenues in sterling.

b. The non-agreement companies may transfer that
amount of their revenues that will make the propor-

tion of transfers to revenues equal for the agreement

and non-agreement companies.

3. The companies are to make no substantial change in

their arrangements for distributing films.

THE BRITISH SUPPLY COUNCIL IN NORTH AMERICA
Box 680
BENJAMIN FRANKLIN STATION

TELEPHONE REPUBLIC 7860

WASHINGTON. D. c.

17th November, 1941.

PERSONAL

My dear White,

You asked me the other day for
further details about the new Film Agreement.
I now enclose copies of correspond-

ence between Mr. Winant and SirKingsley Wood, which

have just reached me, and which give the whole story,

so far as I know it.
If there is any additional information

which you need, you might be able to get it from the

State Department, who will no doubt have received a
report from your Embassy in London.
So far as I know the exchange of
letters has not been published, and as I do not know
whether or not it is intended to make them public,
I must in the meantime ask you to treat them as
confidential.
Yours sincerely,

(.T.K Bewkey)
twenty

Dr. H. D. White,

Director Monetary Research,
United States Treasury,
Washington,
D. C.

160

COPY

161
22nd October, 1941.

My dear Ambassador,

Thank you for your letter of October 19th informing

me
the eight
American Film Companies concerned accept
the that
Treasury's
proposal.

I confirm that the arrangements set out in the
first paragraph of your letter also apply to the non-

Agreement Companies, except that in their case the amount
to be transferred in respect of the 1941/42 Film Agreement
year is the amount equivalent to the same proportion of

their sterling revenues available for remittance as would
be represented by the transfer of 20 million dollars in the
case of the Agreement Companies. The procedure (which is
of course not quite the same as that in respect of the
Agreement Companies) will be similar to that which has
ap lied heretofore, it being of course understood that the
Companies for their part make no substantial alteration in
the general arrangements whereby films are distributed in
this country.

I approve the terms of the draft Agreement for
could be signed at the Treasury tomorrow. Perhaps he
could be good enough to get into touch with my Private
Secretary to let us know what time would suit him.

1941/42 and, if it suits Mr. Allport's convenience, it

I agree to your suggestion that the Agreement
Companies should transfer on October 30th, 1941 an amount

representing ne-half of the amount provided for in Article
2 (a) (11) of the Agreement, subject to subsequent adjustment if necessary as you propose. The payment to the non-

Agreement Companies would be made as soon as the necessary
calculations can be made.

I understand that Mr. Allport will make application
concerned for the transfer of sterling into dollars, and
the Bank of England will make the dollars available to Mr.

to the Bank of England on behalf of the Agreement Companies

All port or to such persons as he may designate without

delay.

I think you know that when Warner Brothers bought
their shareholding in a cinema owning Company in the United
Kingdom it was agreed that they would surrender to the

Treasury a substantial part of their share of any global
dollar allocation which might e agreed for the year 1941/
42, and accordingly the aggregate transfers which will be
provided against the global alloction will fall short of
20 million dollars by the amount arranged with Warner
Brothers.

I note with pleasure that you will be ready to
discuss the wider questions of future films policy mentioned
at the end of my letter of October 4th. We can return to
this at a convenient moment.

Finally I should like to say how glad I am that this

question has been so satisfactorily settled and to express
my thanks to you for all the help which you have given to
me
in bringing the negotiations to a quick conclusion, which
is what we both desired.
Yours sincerely,
(Signed)

His Excellency
The Hon. J.G. Winant

KINGSLEY WOOD.

COPY

162
EMBASSY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

(w 12586/37/49)

London, England.

19th October, 1941.
Dear Chancellor,

In reply to your two letters of October fourth
and eleventh respectively with regard to the new Film Agreement for 1941-42, I have received word that the eight
American Companies concerned therewith accept the Treasury's
proposal that : (a) the transfer of 50 percent of their
blocked sterling as on October 26, 1941, will be permitted in
two equal instalments, the first on October 30th next and the
second on April 1, 1942, and (b) for the film year from 27
October, 1941, to October 24, 1942, the Agreement Companies
will be permitted to transfer $20 million; such transfers to
take place at the end of each quarterly period.
It is understood that the preceding arrangements
also apply to the Non-Agreement Companies, except that in

their case the amount to be transferred in respect of the
same proportion of their resources available for remittance as
would be represented by the transfer of $20 million in the
1941-42 Film Agreement year is the amount equivalent to the

case of the Agreement Companies.

In accordance with our conversations, the
Agreement Companies understand that the text of the new Film
Agreement will contain the same provisions as were embodied in

losed)
had

last year's Agreement except for the insertion of the new
transfer figures and the required change in dates. For your
approval, I am attaching a draft of last year's Agreement with
the necessary alterations to conform with the new arr ngements

agreed upon between us.

The amount of the unremittable balances held by
the Agreement Companies as of October 26, 1941, probably +

cannot be finally determined before October 30th next. Might
I, therefore, suggest that the Agreement Companies be permitted
to transfer, by October 30, 1941, in one lump sum, an amount
representing one quarter of their estimated 1939-41 unremittable
funds. If it was subsequently found that the total sum thus
transferred was less than the amount the Companies were permitted
to transfer by October 30, 1941, an immediate transfer of the
difference could be made, leaving the remaining quarter of their
balances - unremittable prior to October 26, 1941 - to be transferred on April 1, 1942. I have suggested to the Companies
that their estimate of the total amount for transfer on October
30th next should be calculated conservatively so that there
would be no danger that the October 30th transfer will exceed
the proportion of the total sum upon which we have agreed.
Should this procedure meet with the Treasury's
approval, arrangements could be made to obtain from the Agreement Companies here the sterling equivalent of an estimated
sum representing one fourth of their unremittable monies for
the film years November 1, 1939, to October 25, 1941,
inclusive; the dollars representing this lump sum could then
be transferred under the authority of the Bank of England to
such recipient in the United States as may be requested by
the Companies. In view of the brief time before the end of
this month, I would appreciate any assistance you may see fit
to give to ensure that the permit for transfer is obtained to
enable the dollars to reach the Companies by October 30th next.
The Right Hon. Sir Kingsley Wood, M.P.
The Treasury
Whitehall
S. w.i.

/In

163
In accordance with the arrangements

followed in the past two years in respect to the formlities connected with the acceptance by the Companies of
the new Agreement, Mr. F. W. Allport, Foreign Representative of the Motion Picture Producers and Distributors
of America, Incorporated, will be prepared to sign the
Agreement on behalf of the eight Companies, as soon as
the Treasury indicates an agreeable time for this final
procedure.

I hope the suggestions outlined above

will meet with your approval.
in connexion with the last paragraph

of your letter of October 4th, I shall, of course, be
glad to discuss with you, at your convenience, the difficulties which you envisage. I also want to take this
opportunity to let you know hom much I have really
appreciated your co-operation and your readiness to meet
the view advanced by my Government.

Yours sincerely,
(Signed) JOHN G. WINANT.

164

COPY

(W 12285/37/49)

Treasury Chambers,
S.W. 1.

11th October, 1941.

My dear Ambassador,

With regard to the two points you
raised with me about my letter of the 4th October
on films;

(1) I readily agree that the first of
the two equal instalments referred to in the first
paragraph of my letter should be paid on the 30th

October 1941 instead of on the 1st November 1941.

(2) In view of what you said to me, I
agree to withdraw the suggestion made in the third
paragraph of my letter of 4th October.
I ought also to take the opportunity to

explain that the first paragraph of the letter was

intended to provide for 50 percent of the blocked
sterling being transferred to the Agreement Companies
as a whole, and not as entitling individual Companies
to transfer in each case 50 percent of the balance
accumulated by that Company. I understand that in
the case of the Agreement Companies the sterling
balances vary from something very small to very
considerable aums and it is essential that the
arrangements should be interpreted as applying to
the Agreement Companies as a group and not to each
individual Company.
Yours sincerely,
(Sgd.)

His Excellency
The Honourable
J. G. Winant.

Kingsley Wood.

COPY

165
TREASURY CHAMBERS,

4th October 1941.
My dear Ambassador,
Films.

I have promised to put into writing

the settlement which we have discussed. My proposal
is that both the Agreement and the non-Agreement

Companies should be entitled to transfer 50% of the
blocked sterling as on October 26th, 1941, in two equal
instalments, the first on 1st November, 1941, and the
second on the 1st April, 1942.
As regards the Film Agreement year
27th October, 1941, to 26th October 1942, the Agreement
Companies would be entitled to transfer up to 820
millions and the non-Agreement Companies to transfer

the same proportion of their resources available for
remittance as would be represented by the transfer of
320 millions in the case of the Agreement Companies.
Transfer would take place at the end of each quarterly
period.

Sterling not available for transfer

under this arrangement would be placed in separate
banking accounts in the name of the Companies, the

operation of which will be subject to Treasury permission, it being understood that such permission will
normally be granted without question for payments in
the normal course of business of the Companies.

Not contingent on these payments but

as a separate matter I hope that it will be possible to
discuss the wider questions of future Films policy about
which I spoke to you. As you know, I feel strongly
that in the true interests of both parties there should
be co-operation in an attempt to frame a constructive
policy designed both to build up an efficient British
film industry and to develop in our common interests by
mutual help the aggregate market for English speaking
pictures.
As you know, the offer which I am
making to you imposes a serious charge on our very

limited dollar resources, while the large and growing

business which the American Companies are doing here

seems likely to create a post-war liability which you
and we will find embarrassing. These are matters which
I should like to discuss further with you in due course.
In the meantime I have thought it right, despite these
facts, to put forward my offer now in view of the

importance attached by the President and the Secretary
of State to a speedy adjustment of the immediate
situation.
Yours sincerely,
VTU8891T

the is von
His

J.O. Winant.

(Sgd.) KINGSLEY WOOD.

THE BRITISH SUPPLY COUNCIL IN NORTH AMERICA

166

Box 680

TELEPHONE: REPUBLIC 7860

BENJAMIN FRANKLIN STATION

WASHINGTON D. C.

22nd October, 1941.

My dear Dr. White,

I promised to send you a line on the
subject of the settlement with the U.S. motion picture
industry.

I have not got any very up to date
figures but I gather the receipts of the companies in
the U.K. have passed a figure of $50 millions a year,
and that the amount they expend in sterling in various
ways is equal to about $15 millions, leaving a balance of
upwards of $35 millions. In the year to October 1940 we
allowed them to remit $18 millions, and the year to October
1941 we allowed them to remit $12.9 millions, but promised

that they should have a better deal later on.
In the recent discussions with Mr. Winant
the Chancellor of the Exchequer agreed that in the year to
the 26th October, 1942, the agreement companies would be
entitled to transfer up to $20 millions, and the non-agreement
companies to transfer the same proportion of their resources
available for remittance as would be represented by the
transfer of $20 millions in the case of the agreement companies.
The transfer would take place at the end of each quarterly
period. The non-agreement companies are not very important
and I think probably $20.5 millions in all would cover the
amount to be remitted under this part of the agreements.
Sterling not available for transfer under this arrangement
will be placed in separate bank accounts in the name of the
companies, the operation of which will be subject to Treasury
permission.

As a result of the working of the agreement
since the outbreak of war there is some 610 millions accumulated in the hands of the companies. The Chancellor of the
Exchequer agreed that he would allow the companies to transfer
Dr. H. D. White,
Director of Monetary Research,
United States Treasury,
Washington,
D. C.

167

-2-

one 50% on of the this 1st across of the exchange in two equal

April, 1942.1941, and the other instalments, on the
1st of November
Yours sincerely,

Hhillips

TABI

S:

TOO

168
November 27, 1941.

Federal Reserve Bank of New York,

33 Liberty Street,

New York, New York.
Gentlemen:

Astention: Mr. L. W. Inoke
Reference is made to your letter of November 26. 1941. enclosing
copies of letters of the Irving Trust Company, New York, the Cerre de

Passe Copper Corporation, Heady & Narnas and Quaranty frust Company

of New York, all of which relate to the cancellation of the following
contracts entered into by the Irving frust Company. covering the youchase of silver free the Cerre do Passe Gepper Corporation, persuant
to authorisations received free the Federal Reserve Beak of New York,
as fiscal agent of the United States:
Purchase

7/29/41

s/ 1/41
81 1/41

8/ 1/41
81 1/41
8/19/41

Purchase Authorisettes Number
D 910
D 911
D 912
D 913
D 925
D 917

Number of
Openes

100,000
200,000
200,000
100,000
200,000
100,000

Delivery
Deteber-levenber
November-December
.

Date of

900.000

As Beaty & Narma is is need of the silver is order to place 19

at the disposal of the Generaly freet Company of New York for eelange

purposes, the treasury. is view of the statements made is the letters

of Heady & Narman, Guaranty frust Company of New York and Cerre $

Passe Copper Corporation, is agreeable to the concellation of the
above seationed contracts. The Federal Reserve Beak of New York, as
fiscal agent of the United States 10 hereby authorised to cancel the
above mentioned contracts.

169

.1.
In connection with the consullation of cash contracts there so

enclosed a draft of a letter which yes are authorised to 1 to the
Isving trust Company.

Very truly years,
(Signed) D.W. BEER

Secretary of the Treasury.

FD: 4m/11/27/41

but FD. BFH-VFC-ENNT

170
COPY

November as, 1941.
PLAN

Irving frest Geneary,
New York, N. Y.

Dear Stree

Attentions Mr.
Time President-

Reference is sade to your letter of November 24, 1942, with which you
enclosed a own of the letter of the same date from Cosso do Passe Copper
Corporation, New York etty. to you and a oow of a letter dated November n.
1941, from Banky & Hasman, New York, to Corro do Passe Copper Corporation,

and to the letter of November 26, 1941, from Bendy . Massea to this beak.

In your letter you request us to deleaver to arrange for the cancells.
tion of contracte which you made parent to authorisations from this Beak

-

as fissal agent of the United States, with Serve do Passe Copper Corporation for the delivery in November and December, 1941, of approximately

900,000 ounces of eilver .m fine as followes
Number of
Purchase Author-

Date of Purchase
7/29/41

6/ 1/41
s/ 1/41

8/1/21
6/1/41
6/19/41

America
a 920
D 022
B 022

Deliver

100,000

November-December

913
D 925
D 927

,
.

.
.

Stane 19 appears from the copy of the letter dated November n. 1941,
and from the letter of November 26. 1941, from Manity a Maynes that is is is

urgent need of silver for delivery to one of the United States Ninto to fill

a colange order for a friendly and will my the commissions - to

brobers and beaks in respect of the original contracts and will use wash
oliver only to most the requirements of its colongo order as as added profit,
and since as appeare from the letter dated November m. 1942, from Corro as do

Passe Gopper Corporation that 10 will sell the alives to loaity & Marcon

the price of 35 conte per - .999 fine for delivery in November and
December, 1941, the Present has consented to the consoliation of - traste. Assessingly, w. as fiscal agent of the United States, authorize

and request you to effect the cancellation of such contracte.
Very truly years,

171

Treasury Department

Division of Monetary Research

Date 12/6/41
To:

19

Miss Chauncey

I think the Secretary might take
a quick glance at the appended letter
to Secretary Hull (top page) merely
for his information.

MR. WHITE

Branch 2058 - Room 214

172
TREASURY DEPARTMENT
WASHINGTON
DIVISION OF MONETARY RESEARCH

November 27, 1941

Dear Mr. Secretary:

I an sending to you herewith, for transmission
to the Cuban Government, the first report of the

American Technical Mission to Cuba.

This report deals only with certain immediate
problems. The Mission's recormendations concerning
Cuba's long-term monetary and banking requirements

will be the subject of a later report now in preparation.

Sincerely yours,

/s/ H. D. White
H. D. White, Chief,
American Technical Mission to Cuba.

The Honorable

The Secretary of State.

Enclosure
FORDEFENSE

BUY
UNITED

STATES
BONDS

173

American Technical Mission to Cuba

FIRST REPORT TO THE CUBAN GOVERNMENT

November 26, 1941

Personnel of Mission
G. A. Eddy, Treasury Department

W. R. Gardner, Board of Governors of the
Federal Reserve System

F. A. Southard, Jr., Treasury Department
H. R. Spiegel, Treasury Department

G. B. Vest, Board of Governors of the

Federal Reserve System

H. D. White, Chief of Mission,
Treasury Department

CONFIDENTIAL
174

AMERICAN TECHNICAL MISSION TO CUPA

The American Technical Mission to Cuba is pleased to submit the

following report.
The Mission wishes, before presenting concrete pronosals, to express its appreciation of the generous assistance extended it by those

persons with whom it worked, and to cite their contribution to the new
program. During its sojourn in Cuba, the Mission was impressed by
the understanding and constructive attitude of Cuban Government officials

- particularly in the Department of Finance - and of a number of
private individuals and organizations in Cuba, regarding Cuba's financial
problems and possible means of solving them.

In this initial report to the Cuban Government, the Mission undertakes to deal only with measures designed to meet the immediate situation,
most of which were discussed in the meetings of October 30 and 31; 1941,

in Habana. The suggestions which it offers at this time for consideration by the Cuban Government are not intended to foreshador or govern

in any way the main report which the Mission will presently subrit with
regard to measures of 2 more permanent character. While it is believed

that the measures proposed in the present report will all tend to
facilitate adoption of the long-term program, some of then may have to
be considerably modified or eliminated entirely when the permanent
machinery is set un.

The nurnoses of the suggestions for immediate consideration are:

(1) To accumulate an official reserve of foreign exchange

by utilizing the growing strength of the peso;

-2-

175

(2) To supply sufficient peso currency to meet the needs
of Cuban circulation during the coming sugar-grinding season

without the reintroduction of dollar currency; and
(3) To increase the banks capacity to lend pesos in
order to enable them more adequately to meet Cuba's growing
credit needs.

If no steps are taken in time, it seems likely that the present
very small discount on the peso may disappear within the next few months,

as a result of the foreign exchange demand for pesos, and that dollars

will be drawn into internal Cuban circulation. The Mission believes
that it would be preferable for any dollar currency which is brought
into Cuba to be accumulated in an official peso stabilization reserve

than to be dissipated into general public circulation. An official
reserve of gold or dollars would be most helnful in the initiation of
any long-run program of Cuban monetary reform. Such a reserve would

heln stimulate public confidence in the peso and enable the Government

to aid in maintaining stability of peso exchange.
The following detailed suggestions for obtaining the above objectives are submitted for immediate consideration.
(1) The Mission recommends that the Cuban Government undertake to

maintain a slight discount on the peso (or, conversely, & slight premium

on the doller) by purchasing gold or dollars at some appropriate price.
The premium on the dollar should be only large enough to mini-

mize the use of dollars for internal Cuban circulation yet not so large

as to disturb confidence in the neso. It is tentatively suggested that

--

176

this premium may be set at some noint between 25 cents and two dollars
per 100 dollars.

It is possible that the desired exchange premium on the dollar
could be maintained merely by withholding from the market an appropriate

amount of dollars received by the Cuban Stabilization Fund from sugar

exports. If it should be necessary to acquire more dollars than are
available to the Fund in this manner, they could be purchased in the
exchange market. Methods of obtaining pesos for these operations are

discussed in section (2). The legal authority for the Government to
buy, hold, pledge and sell gold and dollers should of course be clearly
established.

Sale of the gold or dollars accumulated in the reserve should

be made solely for the purpose of aiding in maintaining the stability
of the neso in the foreign exchange market. The task night be made

easier by public announcement of this nolicy. The precise level at
which, and the circumstances under which, the neso will be supported

should not be announced at this time. Appropriate policies to pursue

in promoting stability of the peso will be discussed further in the
Mission's final report. In the interim, should the Cuban Government
desire any further consultation regarding such policies, the Mission

will be glad to be available.
(2) The pesos to be used to Day for the dollars accumulated in accordance with section (1) may be obtained in several possible veys:
(a) The Cuban Government might borrow pesos from the banks

in Cube, offering the accumulated dollars as collsteral for these loans.

-4-

177

A relaxation of reserve requirements, as recommended in section (3),

should facilitate such loans.
On the basis of preliminary discussions, it is believed
that ct least some of the banks in Cuba would be willing to consider

such loans. Since the collateral consists of dollar balances, it is
assumed that the rate of interest should be low.
The number of dollars purchased with the borrowed pesos

would, of course, be less than the number of pesos by the amount of

the premium on the dollar. Should the banks insist upon having the
loans completely coll: teralized, the Cuban Government could, if it
wished, make un the very small margin in either of two ways:
(i) Make some of the proposed purchases of dollars with
Treasury peso funds other than those borrowed from the banks

for this purpose and pledge the dollars as additional

collateral;
(ii) Keen part of the Treasury's peso working balances
on deposit in the lending banks.
The non-borrowed funds required would be about the same under either

method and would be relatively insignificant, amounting to the 1/4 to
2 percent of the peso bank loans which would not be covered, dollar
for peso, by the purchased dollars. The amount borrowed from the

banks would be slightly less under the first method.
It should be noted that the arrangement suggested in this

section could be put in effect without waiting for new currency.
(b) The Government might issue peso currency against a full-

value reserve of gold or doll rs.

178

-The precise amount of pesos to be issued might correspond

either to the par value of gold or dollars accumulated by the Government,
or to the premium price at which the dollars are purchased in accordance

with section (1) above. In the first case, 100 pesos would be issued
against 100 dollars or the equivalent amount of gold at 335 per fine
ounce. In the second case, 100.25 to 102.00 pesos would be issued
against 100 dollars or the equivalent amount of gold, depending unon the

price selected in section (1). If nesos are issued against dollars or
gold only at their par value, a smaller amount of pesos will be issuable
against the accumulated reserve than will have to be paid for the gold
or dollars at the premium price.
Whether greater confidence would be created by having the

reserve in actual gold rather than in dollars is a matter which the
Cuban officials are better able to decide than is the American Mission.
Any dollars accumulated by the Cuban Government can be used to purchase

gold from the United States if the Cuban Government complies with the
United States regulations regarding gold. The United States Government,
however, charges 1/4 of one percent for purchases or sales of gold.

If it would facilitate the issue of nesos against gold
.for the purposes outlined in this section, the United States Stabilize~
tion Fund would be willing to sell gold to the Cuban Government on
credit provided that the aggregate amount of gold for which payment
has not been made does not exceed 85 million at any one time, and
provided that the Cuban Government issue no notes against this gold

in excess of the cost thereof. The United States Stabilization Fund

-6- -

179

would assume that the dollars purchased with the pesos issued against

such gold would, as soon as practicable, be used to pay for the gold.
Whenever it is considered advisable to sunnort the peso
on the foreign exchange market, the Government should use such part

of its reserve of gold or dollars as seems appropriate to buy pesos,
thereby aiding in stabilizing the foreign exchange value of the neso.
The pesos received by the Government in this process should then be

applied to reducing the bank loans incurred under section (2)(a) and

to retiring peso currency issued under section (2)(b).
Power to issue new currency for the purchase of gold or
dollars is C desirable alternative device for the Government to nossess.
It should, however, be employed in such manner as to avoid creating
unnecessarily large bank reserves.
(3) The Mission recommends that the Treasury, pending further
developments, reduce from 56 percent to a nominal figure the percentage

of their legal reserves which the banks must hold in pesos, and also
that consideration be given to making balances abroad in specified
banks eligible as reserves.
The purpose of these recommendations is to enable peso currency

now irmobilized in the banks to be used to meet the seasonal demand for
currency during the coming sugar season and to increase the capacity

of the banks to expand their neso loans and to carry larger deposits

in either dollars or pesos. How great the withdrawals of currency

from the banks will be next winter is, of course, impossible to forecast with certainty. The Mission has received tentative estimates

-7-

180

that run as high as 20,000,000 pesos. While this would be extrenely

large in relation to any previous seasonal increase it appears to be

at least a possibility in view of the anticipated increased value of
the coming sugar croc. In addition, if deposits continue to grow CS
they have for the nest year, the required reserves of the banks will

be increased. Since dollars are to be kest out of circulation, both
the withdrevals of currency from the banks and the increase of required
reserves will reduce the 7,000,000 of excess peso reserves reported

held by the banks in Cuba on Sentember 30, 1941. It is clear that this
7,000,000 pesos, some of which the banks must hold for their own working
purposes, may be quite inadequate to meet the seasonal demands unless

legal reserve requirements are reduced or new currency is issued in
adequate volume. In the absence of such measures the banks might be

forced to take restrictive action.
The Mission believes that the Government will find it possible to
finance its purchases of dollars by utilizing the existing peso resources

of the banks only if it frees neso reserves in sufficient volune to meet
the winter demands with ease, If, on the other hand, the Government were

to rely almost wholly on new note issues to finance its purchases of
dollars it is possible that bank reserves, increased by the new issues,
might be large enough to meet the winter denands without a reduction of
existing reserve requirements. This would not necessarily be the case,
however, and the Mission therefore recormends that as a first sten, and
until the situation has developed more clearly, reserve requirements
should be relaxed.

181

-8-

Reduction of the 56 percent requirement alone might prove unavailing

if the banks wore unwilling to transfer dollar currency from New York
to Hebana. Most of the reserves in Habana, as the attached tables show,
are slready needed to complete the required reserve of 25 percent against

total peso and dollar deposits. There are at present only about
2,000,000 of free dollar reserves in Habane; hence climination of the
56 percent requirement without importation of dollars by the banks would
add only 2,000,000 pesos to the existing 7,000,000 of excess peso reserves, making 9,000,000 posos in all.

If the banks are propared to bring dollars to Habena, it is estimotod that a maximum of 10,000,000 pesos could be freed, over and above

the 9,000,000 mentioned above. This is based on information offered

the Mission to the effect that banks would deem it advisable to hold
working peso cash reserves of about 15 percent of peso deposits (or
about 11 million pesos) even in the absence of legal requirements.
Some of the banks, however, might be reluctant to move large amounts

of dollars to Habana. For this reason and because of the cost of shipping
large amounts of currency, the Mission suggests the possibility of redefining legal reserves so LS to include balances in banks abroad
.

specified by the Cuban Government.

The exect peso reserve requirement to be specified in the new

ruling is, in the view of the Mission, properly left to the decision
of Cuban officials. In order, however, to provide the maximum of
freedom to the banks in their use of their present peso reserves the
Mission considers that the peso reserve requirement should be nominal

- -9 -

182

even though the banks would apparently want to hold 10 to 15 percent

of their peso deposits in readily-available peso cash for their own
protection.

It would be helpful in encouraging the banks' expansion of loans

if definite indication were given by the Government to the banks that
the new reduced requirements would not subsequently be revised uswerd

until adequate notice had been given them by the Government.
(4) A considerable supply of peso currency should be ordered from

the printers immediately. Net additional amounts of notes are needed
for the measure suggested in (2)(b). Fresh currency (but not a new
addition) is also nooded to replace the excessively worn notes now in

circulation and to make change for larger denomination notes. It is
understood that the Cuban Government now has available only 4 million

of unissued notes. However, the new notes obtained for these two
purposes should not exceed the amount estimated to be necessary during

the period before the new program can be put into effect. Whether or
not the currency issued under (2)(b) can be of the same type as that
used to replace worn notes is a question which should be given early
consideration by the Cuban Government. There is copended to this

report & note setting forth in some detail certain facts relating to
the prevision of new currency notes.
There are also attached some statistical tables which have been

compiled from material made available to the Mission. It has not been

possible to verify all of those data but the figures cited in certain
portions of the report have beun in large part drawn from the tables
and they are therefore added OS of possible interest to the Cuban
Government.

- 10 -

183

In concluding this report we wish to point out that the recommenda-

tions submitted can in almost all cases be modified to meet particular
Cuban conditions, but choice among the possible alternatives and sugges-

tions as to modifications can best be made by Cuban officials familier
with the local problems and conditions. The Mission would be most
willing to discuss the recommendations and possible changes in them
whenever the Cuban Government desires in such place and manner as can

be nutually agreed upon. Furthermore, the Mission would be glad to
work out jointly with the Cuban Government any mutually satisfactory
statement to be published under the name of the American Mission, the
Cuban Government, or both, if the Cuban Government feels it would be

desirable in introducing the program to the Cuban public.

November 26, 1941

184
AMERICAN TECHNICAL MISSION TO CUBA

Provision of New Currency Notes
(Addendum to report of November 26, 1941)

Secret Service and banknote engraving experts agree thrt badly-

worn paper currency offers the essiest opportunity to counterfeiters.
Counterfeiters have great difficulty in producing new notes of

sufficient quality to pass for the genuine. In the case of well-worn
notes, however, only experts may be able to detect counterfeits. Most

counterfeitors are said to out out well-worn paper. Accordingly it
would seem desirable for the Cuban Government to proceed immediately

to improve the condition of the notes circulating in Cuba to prevent

counterfeiting, if for no other reason.
In the United States, paper currency of $1 denordnition is replaced
on the average every nine months. There is said, however, to have

been little replacement in Cuba since silver certificates were first
issued seven years ago.

The recommendation in section (4) of the report involves the
technical tasks of holding stocks of unissued currency, of accounting

for retirements, and of destroying currency after retirement. In this
regard it is understood that the Cuban Treasury hrs set un records of
each note by number. The United States does not keep such records, having

found then unnecessary as well as excessively burdensone. No official
use is now made of the numbers on United States currency, other then for

occasional Secret Service work. The American Lission is prepared to go
into the question of these procedures in more detail if the Cuban Govern-

ment desires it tc do so,

-2-

185

The United States Government is willing to give a Cuban order for
paper priority over its own orders from the one company which produces

it. The paper used for Cuban currency is identical with that in United
States money except for the omission of the blue threads. Three weeks

are required to make the paper if it is to have maximum durability.
The Bureau of Engraving and Printing has in stock only 22,000 sheets,
which make 12 notes each, of the paper purchased for the previous issues
of Cuban pesos. The United States Treasury will proceed to order paper

from the paper company upon the receipt of a definite order from the
Cuban Government. An early order is recommended. The cost currently

is slightly under $10,000 for 1 million sheets.
At the present time, all private American banknote companies

are said to be operating at capacity and unable to take on now jobs.
Evon if they accepted & now commission, it is believed that it would
take nearly a year to produce new dies.
If the Burenu of Engraving and Printing is commissioned to use
the original dies from which the previous issues of Cuben pesos were

produced, with only mincr changes, notes could be printed within a few
weeks. The original dies have been preserved and there has been no

deterioration in then. The two engraved signatures on the face of the
notes could be changed in about three weeks after the recoint of the
new facsimile signatures. Shipment of notes could begin ct the end of

an additional three weeks for printing. Ilinor changes in the other
wording on the notes would require a month or more to make. A new note
or a new portreit or border would take as much ES a year to produce.

Official estinctes of the cost of each process are now in process and
will be forwarded within a few days.

3-

186

Notes will last longer if they are aged from three to four months

after printing before being placed in circulation.
It seems clearly desirable to place immediate orders for enough

silver certificates to replace the present worn circulation, tc supply
more flexibility among different denorinctions, and to keen C reserve
stock on hand for future replacement. Whether or not the present

silver certificate plates can also be used for the notes to be issued
under (2)(b) is a question for Cuban official determination and one on
which the Mission does not feel qualified to make a specific reconnenda-

tion. It is recognized that the logend concerning C. reserve of silver
pesos would not be correct. At the same time, it is known that a snall
amount of silver certificates have already been issued against gold.

A law night conceivably permit the use of silver certificates backed
by dollars or gold during the present emergency, it being expressly
provided that coined pesos need not be kept in the Tronsury to the

extent that dollars or gold are held as reserve. If such low is not
feasible it might be possible to obtain legislation authorizing an issue
of Cuban silver certificates against United States silver dollars.
The Mission believes that consideration might well be given to a

large initial issue of 100-peso notes. This would provide a form of
currency suitable for bank clearings, which would be more convenient

for the banks than batches of snell denomination notes. The Bureau of
Engraving and Printing could turn out a given value more quickly in
100 peso notes than in notes of small denomination. These notes would

not only finance Governmental purchases of dollars and facilitate

187
-4clearing operations but they would autometically release the small
dencrination currency now immobilized by law in bank reserves. It
would not be appropriate, however, for the banks to acquire more than
a few million pesos of the new clearing notes until they were assured
that the Government was in a position to convert them into smaller
denomination currency in case of C run on the banks or other withdrawals

of an abnornal character. For this reason and in order to meet the
needs of active circulation it is important that the Government should
proceed to take the additional steps required to obtain an adequate
supply of fresh small denomination notes.

Table 1
RESERVE POSITION OF BANKS IN CT BA OK VARIOUS ASSUMPTIONS

AS OF SEPTEMBER 30, 1941

(In thousands)

Available reserves
Legal reserves

Deposits

in Havans

Dollar

Bank

Total

In pesos

In dollers

In pesos

In dollars

balances
abroad
(August
31)

National City Bank
First National Bank of Boston

Chase National Bank

II. Golats y Cia.
Banco del Comercio
Banco Comercial
Banco Nuflez

Total

51,088
12,277

2,477
30,499
18,407
8,254
22,792
2,047

30,380
6,163
1,156
13,415
9,561

2,939
6,128

20,707

10,229
3,081

4,300

6,042

1,613

1,320

4,801

518

428

17,084
8,846
5,315
16,664

5,331
4,002

3,595
2,468

6,114

1,187

860

140

123

17

2,593

2,492

101

150,574

73,544

77,028

4

reserves:
25% of

total
deposits

12,772
3,069

1,757

619

7,625
4,602

1,757
1,625

5,672
2,157

171

327

331

1,061
1,425

1,301

1,362

1,954

947

6,635
5,260
1,464

3,503

2,064

798

3,281

3,580

337

5,698

312

3,319
2,568
1,513

517

423

365

1,086

512

230

2,584

339

339

35

10

10

12

258

258

328

7,384

9,408

18,823

lids

768

29,247

1

Royal Bank of Canada
Bank of Nova Scotia
Canadian Bank of Commerce

Required

Excess peso reserves
Assuming 56% requirement susof total repended, but 15% of peso dequired reserves posits needed in peso cash
in pesos* and
for working purposes*
counting only
Counting only Counting dollar
legal reserves legal reserves balances abroad
in Havana
in Havena
in reserves
Assusing 50%

138

17,194

2

70

28,223

648

37,644

1,868

*

count
required,
ratherare
than
as excess,toreserves.
Insofar
asas
dollar
reserves
insufficient
meet the remiidder of the 25 por cont total requirement, pesos must make up the deficiency and

CO
GO

Table II
RESERVE POSITION OF BANKS IN CUBA ON VARIOUS ASSUMPTIONS

AS OF SEPTEMBER 30, 1941

(In thousands)

Assuming 56% requirement suspended, but 15% of peso deposits
needed in peso cash for working purposes*
Counting dollar balances
Counting only legal
abroad in reserves
reserves in Havana
Excess

required
reserves:
Bank

25% of

total
deposits

Assuming 56% of total required
reserves in pesos* and counting
only legal reserves in Havans
Excess
Dollars
Pesos

Required

Dollars

Pesos

Pesos

1,757

263

8,472
1,456

4,300
1,613

1,625

171

156

191

428

327

3,355

1,061

240

2,025

1,425

443

3,595
2,468

1,301

2,577
1,156
3,191

4,030
2,134

1,868

Banco del Comercio
Banco Comercial

512

287

35

34

Banco Nunez

648

510

138

3/258

37,644

22,563

15,080

7,384

First National Bank of Boston
Chase National Bank

N. Gelats y Cia,

Total

8,472

3,069

1,719

619

347

272

7,625
4,602
2,064
5,698

4,270

0

907

798

40

1,117

947

837

2,507

312

774

2,417

3,281

1,086

225

230

334

339

1

National City Bank

3/1,757
1,362

4,300
1,350

12,772

3/10

198
0

0

2,114

178
34

1

Royal Bank of Canada
Bank of Nova Scotia
Canadian Bank of Commerce

Required

Excess

Required
Dollars
Pesos 17

10

510

138

258

20,539

17,105

9,408

Dollars

Pesos 2

0

0

0

5,672
2,157

187

432

331

2,012

919

5,613
3,168
1,623
4,779

3,319
2,568
1,513
2,584

2,082

178

334

339

454

441

0

89
0

0

89

2,127
4,269

8,215
2,145

1,434

0

0

Dollars

Pesos

924

4,557

0

Dollars

32

440

208

11,124

26,520

0

4,617
4,560
788

12

3

Total

0

328

0

18,823 18,897

Insofar as doller reserves are insufficient to meet the remainder of the 25% total requirement, pesos must make up the deficiency and
count as required, rather than as excess, reserves.
purposes.
Except in the case of the Banco del Comercio, all peso cash listed in this column for individual banks must be held to meet the
25 per

1

cent legal requirement, which requires more peso cash then the 15 per cent of peso deposits assumed to be needed for working

All the peso cash listed in this column for individual banks represents only the 15 per cent of peso deposits assumed to be needed for

2

working purposes, except that more peso cash must be held by the Canadian Bank of Commerce, the Banco Comercial, and the Banco Nunes

3

to meet the 25 per cent legal requirement.
By transferring dollars from abroad to Havena, 1,481,000 additional pesos could be released as follows: Royel Bank of Canada, 1,320,000
Banco Comercial, 14,000; Bando Nunez, 147,000.

00

190
Table III
PESO MONEY BY DENOMINATIONS: 1 TO 100 PESOS
AS OF SEPTEMBER 30, 1941

(In millions of pesos)
In circulation

New notes

Total

Donomination

net issue

held by
Fiscal

In

Trocsury

4.2

---

1 poso notos

11.3

1/2.3

25.5

1.8

5

Per cent of

Amount

total net

2

Commission

1 poso coins

In banks

2,

issue

3.3

1.0

23

.1

2.8

6.1

53

.1

7.7

15.8

62

*

10

12.9

3.0

9.9

77

20

13.9

4.6

9.4

67

"

50

9.0

2.1

6.8

76

100

"

11.0

1.8

9.1

83

25.4

58.1

66

"

Total

87.8

*

4.2

.3

Loss than 50,000 posos.
1
2

Excluding 1.4 million posos destroyed by the fire in the vaults.
The total of 25.4 million pesos "in banks" includes .1 million posos
listed by three banks as "unclassified", but is less by 1.3 million
than the total given in the monthly report to the Treasury for the
same date. Possible reasons for the apparent incompleteness of the
banks' reports to tho Mission by denominations are suggested on

page 2 of the Explanatory Note. Sinco bank holdings are slightly
understated in this table, money in circulation outside the banks
is slightly overstatod.

191
Explanatory Note to Tables
Required reserves of the banks can be computed .SO as to release for
other purposes a maximum of peso currency or a maximum of dollars. In Tables
I and II the computation has been so made as to release the maximum of peso

currency since it is in this type of currency that there is most likelihood
of a shortage.

In computing excess peso reserves the basic assumption is that 25

percent of total deposits must be held in pesos or dollars. This is the

legal requirement that has been in effect since 1885, and it is regarded
as unchanged throughout the computations. Within this framework several
assumptions as regards other features of reserve requirements are made.
In Table I it is first assumed that the Treasury maintains its present
ruling that 56 percent of total required reserves must be held in pesos.
On this basis the banks had 7,384,000 pesos in excess of legal requirements
on September 30, 1941.

It is next assumed that the 56 percent requirement is suspended and

that so far as the law is concerned the banks are free to pay out all their
pesos, providing they maintain a reserve in dollars in Havana equivalent to
25 percent of their total deposits. The banks did not have on September 30,
1941, however, enough dollars in Havana to free more than a small portion
of their peso reserves. Even without the 56 percent requirement they would
have had to continue to apply the greater part of their pesos to meeting
the 25 percent requirement. Hence their pesos in excess of legal requirements on this assumption rise only to 9,408,000.

A further assumption has been made in this second case, which is,
however, practically without effect under the conditions of September 30,

1941. It is assumed that even if the banks could legally free all their

pesos they would have to keep some working reserves. What those reserves

must be is a matter for each bank to determine; but the Mission was told
by the banks that they would for their own protection have to keep an amount
of peso cash equivalent to 10 to 15 percent of their peso deposits even if
there were no legal reserve requirements. The assumption has therefore
been made in this second case that, while the 56 percent requirement is
suspended, the banks cannot let their peso cash fall below 15 percent of
their peso deposits. As a matter of fact, on the basis of September 30
figures, all the banks except the Banco del Comercio would have been forced
by the requirement that 25 percent of total deposits must be held in dollar
or peso reserves to hold more in pesos than 15 percent of their peso deposits. Hence the assumption that 15 percent of peso deposits must be held in
pese cash is without appreciable effect in this second case.

In the third case, however, it is the governing assumption. The

assumptions are the same in the third as in the second case except that

instead of counting only dollar reserves in Havana it is assumed that dollar
balances abroad are also included in reserves. This could be achieved
without a change in the present definition of reserves if the banks moved
their dollars from abroad to Havana. Or it could be achieved by extending
the present definition of reserves to include dollar balances abroad. Whatover the method of introducing dollars abroad into reserves, it would, on

192
Explanatory Notes to Tables - continued

the basis of September 30 figures, set free virtually all the peso reserves
of the banks were it not for the assumption that they must hold peso cash
equivalent to 15 percent of their peso deposits for their own working pur-

poses. The 18,823,000 pesos shown as excess reserves in the final column

of the table are all in excess of this 15 percent.

The contrast between this excess of 18,823,000 pesos in the third
case and the 7,384,000 and 9,408,000 pesos in the first and second cases

is really greator than it seems. In both the first two cases the banks,

if they used up their so-called excess reserves, would be down to their
legal minimums (on the 56 percent basis in the first case, and on the 25
percent basis in the second). In the third case they would be down only
to their discretionary working reserves. While the banks can dip below
their legal minimums without penalty and have often don o so, they must
novertheless plan their business so that such deficiencies will not becomo
chronic. Henoo they would not fool comfortable in paying out all the oxCOSS reservos shown in the first two cases. In the third caso the whole
amount of 18,823,000 pesos could bo withdrawn and still leave the banks
with normal working reserves and plenty of dollars to meet the 25 percent
requirement should they from time to time have to dip into their working
reserves. The only banks without sufficient dollar balances abroad to
onable them to take full advantage of the conditions assumed in this third
case are the Canadian Bank of Commorce, the Banco Comercial, and the Banco

Nunoz, all of them small.

A more dotailed analysis of the reserve position of the banks is
contained in Table II. In this table the reserve position of the banks

in each of the three cases is developed in four columns instead of one.
Required, as well as excess, reserves are shown both in pesos and in
dollars. The absence of excess dollars in the second case and their

abundance in the third are sharply brought out in this table.
In Table III the peso cash of the banks is analyzed by denominations of from 1 peso to 100 pesos. This is to test whether the banks'
holdings are suitable for general circulation. The table shows that they
are. The banks' holdings are largest in the small denominations that are
in active circulation. They are least in the 100-peso notes, the denominations most suitable for clearing purposes.
The Banco Comercial, which held only 41,000 pesos of cash on Sep-

tember 30, 1941, did not supply figures by denomination to the Mission,
and data for the other banks were supplied at a time when they could not
be checked against the reports of individual banks to the Treasury as of
September 30, 1941. The total of all donominations for the nine banks
reporting to the Mission is 1,300,000 posos less than the aggregate shown

in the regular reports to the Treasury. It may be that several of the banks
in reporting denominations to the Mission failed to cover cash in tellers'
tills or in branches. The proportions in the different denominations,

however, cannot have been materially altered by the omissions.

193
TELEGRAM SENT
PLAIN

BAS

November 27, 1941
AMERICAN CONSUL

SHANGHAI, (CHIMA) vic H. R.

1052, twenty-seventh
Your 1762, November 24

You will be guided by the following reply
from the Treasury Department.
QUOTE. RE instructions of November 11, 1941

relating to General License 58 and invoices
certified thereunder and PE your 1762 of November
24.

Philippines are included in term quote
United States unquote C.S defined in Section

5 (b) of Executive Order 8369. Special certification procedure is applicable on invoices
for Philippines.
You should note in connection with shipments

from China to the Philippines that for local
Philippine customs duty purposes merchandise is

frequently invoiced in sterling although payments are to be made in United States currency.

This practice is not (repeat not) disapproved
of.

You are,

194

-2- #1052, Nov Ember 27, to AMERICAN CONSUL

SHANCHAI, (CHINA) vic N. R.

You are, therefore, authorized to place the

special certification on invoices relating to
such merchandise provided that all requirements

stated in the instructions have been complied

with and notwithstanding the fact that invoices

presented for certificction are in terms of
sterling rather than United States currency.
Care should DE Exercised to SEE that state-

ments from appointed banks in fact relate to the
transactions COVERED by invoices certified by

you. In so doing you should escErtain that the

sterling values actually correspond to the dollar
payments authorized.

Repeat to all offices in China. UNQUOTE.
MULL

(FL)

FD:FL:Bl:cB

FE

0

P

195

Y

BS

PLAIN

Tientsin via N.R.
Dated November 27, 1941

Rec'd. 4:15 a.m., Dec. 1st
Secretary of State,
Washington.

150, Twenty-seventh.

Yokohama Specie Bank circular dated November 26 notifies exporters

on behalf of Federal Reserve Bank that export of local products from
North China to United States of America Britain Netherlands India Hong Kong
and other designated countries will be permitted from now forward provided

that the corresponding import covers foodstuffs sugar oil gum products
mineral goods and any other essential commodities which have already

been or will surely be imported into the northern ports in reply to an
inquiry by this office the Federal Reserve Bank stated that the issuence
of permits for exports to designated countries suspended since the freezing order will be resumed for non-embargoed goods except bristles and furs

provided exchange has been settled against export of the above listed

articles. This will allow exporters to clear shipments direct to ultimate
destinations rather than to Shanghai for reconsignment as has been done
since the freezing order.
Sent to the Department, repeated to Chunging, Peiping and Shanghai.
KLP

CALDWELL

eh:copy
12-2-41

TREASURY DEPARTMENT

196

INTER-OFFICE COMMUNICATION
DATE November 27, 1941
Chaunoor,

TO

Secretary Morgenthau

FROM

Mr. Dietrich

CONFIDENTIAL

Registered sterling transactions of the reporting banks were as follows:
Sold to commercial concerns
£58,000
Purchased from commercial concerns £112,000

Of the latter amount, £100,000 were reported as representing the proceeds of
machinery exports.

Open market sterling remained at 4.03-1/2, and there were no reported

transactions.

The Uruguayan free peso advanced another 50 points (1/2#) to close at a

new high of .5025. The free peso is now quoted at a level 6 higher than the
rate of October 1, when the current upward movement began.

In New York, closing quotations for the foreign currencies listed below

were as follows:

Canadian dollar

11-1/4% discount

Argentine peso (free)

.2390

Colombian peeo
Mexican peso

Veneguelan bolivar

.0515
.5775
.2070
.2580

Cuban peso

1/8% discount

Brazilian milreis (free)

There were no gold transactions consummated by us today.
No new gold engagements were reported.

42.67

In London, spot and forward silver remained at 23-1/2d, equivalent to

The Treasury's purchase price for foreign silver was unchanged at 35$
Handy and Harman's settlement price for foreign silver was also unchanged at

34-3/4*.

We made no silver purchases today.

D

197

SECRET

COORDINATOR OF INFORMATION

THE WAR THIS WEEK

No. 7

November 20 - 27, - 1941

No. 25

Coordinator of Information
THE WAR THIS WEEK

SECRET

No. 7

November 20 - 27, 1941

The crescendo of German military and diplo-

matic offensives during the past week strongly
suggests the hope of high Nazi circles that a last

great effort will level the barriers to the construction of a German Europe. Russian resistance
is to be broken, or seriously compromised, by the

renewed offensives in north and south. The ousting of Weygand appears to be only the prelude to

the "coordination" of France with the German
system and the possible occupation of French North

Africa. Seven new states have been forced to sign
the Anti-Comintern Pact, among them much battered
Finland.

2-

-3These initiatives have doubtless been timed

with the Kurusu Mission to dissuade the Japanese

from any compromise unfavorable to the Nazis.
Finally, the Germans are gradually unveiling the
outlines of the "New Europe," and there are rumors

that after the new year the states of the Continent will be convened in Congress at Vienna to
consecrate that system.

the operation of the North African economic accord
(in response to the ousting of Weygand), has made

|ease-lend aid available to the Free-French, and
has despatched troops to strategic Dutch Guiana
from which this country draws seventy per cent of

its total bauxite requirements (1940).
THE GERMANS ADVANCE IN RUSSIA

The new German drive against Moscow has
ANGLO-AMERICAN OFFENSIVE

This broadly conceived German bid for vic-

tory on the Continent has met sharp rejoinders

thrown out prongs from Kalinin in the north and

Tula in the south with the apparent object of

encircling the capital. With the forces of the
from the enemy. The long prepared British offen-

sive in Africa has lashed out to the west in an

Nazis reported within a few miles of the city, the
decision in the Battle for Moscow may be only a

attempt to encircle and destroy the Axis forces in

matter of hours now.

the desert. The American government has suspended

In the southern battlefield, despite a terrific Russian counter-offensive north of Rostov,

-5- -

-4--

the Germans are still in possession of the city

availability of even a notable proportion of this

and have cut the main oil-transport artery between

oil would give the Germans a supply for a war of

the Caucasus and the heart of Russia. An immedi-

almost indefinite term. The conquest of these

ate danger is that the Germans will strike south-

fields might be a major disaster for the Allies.
Urgent Anglo-American representations were

eastward from Rostov and possess themselves of the
]

Maykop and Grozny oil fields, which lie north of

made to the Russian government on November 21,

the Caucasus mountains and are militarily far more

pointing out the importance of immediate measures

accessible than the fields to the south of the

to prepare for the prompt eventual destruction of

mountains.

the wells in these fields and offering to supply

These two fields produce together some five

Russian oil deficiencies during the war and the

million tons of oil a year or about a third of the

period of reconstruction and to provide machinery

total product now available to the Axis. It is

desired for replacement on at least as favorable a

doubtful whether Soviet destruction could deprive

basis as to other states resisting aggression.

the Germans of this oil for many months, and there

NAZI PLANS FOR RUSSIA

is reason to believe that even refineries could be

replaced within a year. In the last analysis the

German plans for the eventual disposition

of occupied Russia and the Baltic countries are

-6still veiled in secrecy but the statements in the

-7C1

press suggest that Russia is to be eliminated once

ideologist and Russian-speaking Balt, who becomes

Reich-minister for the occupied east area.

and for all as a factor in the power politics of
FINIS WEYGAND

Europe. In a lecture by one Professor Schuessler,

After weeks of rumor and speculation,

widely publicized by the German press, Communism
General Weygand was removed from the African scene
]

and Czarist imperialism are declared to be sub-

with undramatic ease. The final blow was the

stantially the same thing, and it is baldly stated
result of a German ultimatum, according to Petain,
that Germany contemplates the complete elimination
of European Russia and the control of her economic

but it reflected also opposition to Weygand in
Paris and Vichy, the General's personal aide

resources.

declares. The head of the Vichy regime states
The German press also lauds Hitler for the
that he was menaced with German occupation of all

reconstruction of the "scorched earth* in Russia

and compares this vast task in the east to the
"pioneering" of the Teutonic Knights. The immedi-

ate problem of reconstructing the administration

has been entrusted to Alfred Rosenberg, Nazi

France and military penetration of French Africa,

if he failed to yield.
Weygand himself insists that nothing is
changed, and both he and certain of his associates

urge that American economic aid to French North

8

-9
Africa be continued. But others take a different
view. One of Weygand's immediate entourage
declares that Vichy had ample means for resistance, If It had wanted to use them, and that concessions have been made to the Nazis for the mill-

tary use of Tunisia and possibly of all North
Africa. (Some color is lent this statement by the
appearance of uniformed members of the German
Armistice Commission on the streets of Casablanca

and by the landing by air of fifty uniformed and

situation has suggested to some observers that

the title is being reserved for a: active collaborationist.
General criticism of Petain in government

circles is reported from Algiers, and one official
resigned and tore up a picture of the Marshal in
the presence of his colleagues, to whom he de-

clared roundly that he would no longer serve a
six-starred mummy who was taken out of the frigidaire by the Germans every time they needed him.

fully armed German soldiers at the same place on

There is no substantial reason to believe that

November 22.) It is perhaps noteworthy that

this is not a fair appreciation of Petain at this

Weygand's exact title, Delegue General, has not

time or that he will not weakly yield to the next

been conferred upon either of the two new and most

German demands for concessions. Indeed It

important appointees, Juin and Chatel. This

reliably reported that the Marshal will soon go t.

Is

occupied France for a conference with a "hig
German personage."

- 10 -

- 11 -

THE NAZIS' "NEW EUROPE"

industry by slowing down the sending of stocks and

Rumors of a German peace offensive have

been general for some time, and preliminary
"feelers" by Petain and Darlan were noted in last

week's analysis. With Russian power in Europe
shattered, the time would be ripe for the making

of a continental peace, and it is reported that
Berlin is preparing a meeting about the first of
the year in Vienna at which the new order would
be created.

bonds from unoccupied France to Paris. The
Germans have now compelled them to withdraw these

measures and German buying goes on busily. The

theory is widely held on the Continent as well as

in London that Hitler will propose a peace and
offer to withdraw from many conquered areas, among

them France, as soon as this process approaches
completion.

Less subtle moves toward the "New Order

German insurance companies, industrial

also are in evidence. By alienating opinion in

corporations, and banking institutions are stead-

the United States, the ousting of Weygand has

ily expanding in all the occupied countries. So

already made Vichy more dependent on Germany.

is German buying of industrial stocks. In France

There are stories that French business is to be

the Vichy Government ventured upon some weak meas-

decoyed into collaboration by suggestions that it

ures to counteract the German buying of French

will be allowed to participate in the reconstruc-

- 12 - 13 -

tion of the industry of the Ukraine. Finally the

addition of seven new "states" to the Anti. Comintern front is to be viewed as another pre-

paration for the closer knitting of the continental system under German hegemony. The scene is

gradually being prepared for the realization of

will be numerous. German planes are probably

available also in the Balkans, Crete, and Italy
for this purpose.

The long-run effects of a British victory
would be more important. It would lift the Axis
menace from Egypt and provide bases for concen-

the most grandiose imperial scheme since the days

trated air attack on Italy and on Axis convoys
when the Napoleonic Empire sprawled over most of
the Continent.

bound for Africa. The results, so far as Italy
is concerned, might be disastrous. Such a victory

COUNTER-STROKE IN LIBYA

As a counter-blast to Nazi initiatives the

would presumably also free British troops for
action elsewhere in the Middle East.

Libyan campaign promises to be more spectacular
THE KURUSU MISSION

than immediately significant. Some German planes

Latest reports are that the Kurusu negotia-

may be drawn off from the eastern front, thus
relieving the Russians, but it is doubtful if they

tions are threatened with collapse as the result

of the arrival in Indochina of fresh Japanese

- 14 -

- 15 -

forces. Even in its inception the Kurusu Mission

not yet committed to all-out association with

appeared to pose the old problem of the irresist-

Germany. Although he signed the Three Power Pact

ible force and the immovable object. The policies

while Ambassador to Berlin, he is reported to have

of both sides were clear-cut and apparently

been personally opposed to it, and both rumor and

Irreconcilable.

record suggest that he is not enthuslastic over

Kurusu, said the Tokyo radio, will stay "as

long as necessary, but not too long.' Both the
Japanese press and radio continue to maintain that
war or peace depends on the United States and that

both official and press opinion in this country do
not conduce to optimism.
Saburo Kurusu is now one of Japan's senior

career diplomats in active service. He is re-

Japan's association with the Axis.
Kurusu's wife is an American, he has strong

American associations, and his attitude toward
this country is reported to be friendly. The following factors may have contributed to his appointment to the present mission: his good relations with Foreign Minister Togo and consequent

ability to transmit the views of the new Tojo
Cabinet, his reputation as an experienced and

ported to be on good terms with former Foreign
thoroughly reliable diplomat, his superior command

Minister Hirota and with the Army--presumably with

of the English language, and his extensive expeArmy leaders, such as General Sugiyama, who are
rience in commercial negotiations.

- 14 -

- 15 -

forces. Even in its inception the Kurusu Mission

not yet committed to all-out association with

appeared to pose the old problem of the irresist-

Germany. Although he signed the Three Power Pact

ible force and the immovable object. The policies

of both sides were clear-cut and apparently
Irreconcilable.
Kurusu, said the Tokyo radio, will stay "as

long as necessary, but not too long." Both the
Japanese press and radio continue to maintain that
war or peace depends on the United States and that

both official and press opinion in this country do
not conduce to optimism.
Saburo Kurusu is now one of Japan's senior

career diplomats in active service. He is reported to be on good terms with former Foreign

while Ambassador to Berlin, he is reported to have
been personally opposed to it, and both rumor and

record suggest that he is not enthusiastic over
Japan's association with the Axis.
Kurusu's wife is an American, he has strong

American associations, and his attitude toward
this country is reported to be friendly. The following factors may have contributed to his appointment to the present mission: his good relations with Foreign Minister Togo and consequent

ability to transmit the views of the new Tojo
Cabinet, his reputation as an experienced and
thoroughly reliable diplomat, his superior command

Minister Hirota and with the Army--presumably with

of the English language, and his extensive expeArmy leaders, such as General Sugiyama, who are
rience in commercial negotiations.

198
BRITISH EMBASSY
WASHINGTON D.C.

November 27th, 1941.

PERSONAL AND
SECRET

Dear Mr. Secretary,

I enclose herein for your
personal and secret information a copy

of the latest report received from
London on the military situation.
Believe me,

Dear Mr. Secretary,

Very sincerely yours,

Halifax
The Honourable

Henry Morgenthau, Jr.
United States Treasury,
Washington, D.C.

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TELEGRAM RECEIVED FROM LONDON NOVEMBER 26TH. 1941.

NAVAL.

H.M.A.S. "Sydney" six days overdue at Freemantle

she was returning from escort duty. Believed she sank
an enemy raider but definite news of "Sydney's" fate
uncertain. British tanker has picked up German seamen

from a raft, others have been sighted in lifeboats two of
which reported came a shore in Western Australia.

Indications are that Sydney was on fire when last seen by
Germans.

H.M.S. Dunodin in Central Atlantic has not

2.

answered signals for 36 hours, may have been torpedoed

as Germans claim torpedoing H.M.S. "Dragon" in that area.
3.

H.M. drifter Fishergirl has been sunk in

Falmouth harbour by near miss bomb.
4.

H.M.S. Cornwall intercepted French merchant

ship of 1129 tons northbound southeast of Cape Guardaful

carrying food and run. Prize crows taking her to Aden.
5.

H.M.S. Kenya with 2 British and 2 Russian

destroyers bombarded fort and batteries at Vardo Varanger

Fjord at 07.31/25. Results not observed.
6.

H.M. Submarine "Sea Wolf" during the night of

21st./22nd. northwest of Vardo sank with one and possibly

two hits 3000 ton tanker in uneacorted convoy. During
night of 23rd./24th "Sea Wolf" attacked 4 ships in convoy
in same area and soored one hit on a merchant ship which
probably sank.
MILITARY./

200

MILITARY
7.

German advance east of Tula and Oral

continues to make progress.
ROYAL AIR FORCE.
8.

United Kingdom. Day 25th. 6 Blenheims

bombed Marlaix aerodrome and spitfires machibe-gunned

aircraft on the ground on Calais Marck aerodrome.

Night of 25th/26th. Attacks made on
Cherbourg (17) where results reported most successful
and Brest (18) where bombs included 45 of 2000 lbs.
9.

Libya.

Between night of 23rd./24th and

night of 24th/25th inclusive.

Attacks made on

dispersed aircraft on Benina and Berca aerodromes and
near Benghazi Concentrations of enemy tanks and M.T.

and A.P.V.'s attacked in E1 Adem area near Sirte and

Misurata. Near E1 Adem hits claimed on at least 12
tanks and on many M.T. vehicles and near Misurata hits

with bombs claimed on 22 petrol lorries. 20 tons of
H.E. dropped on Benghazi where railway workshops customs

house and military H.Q. claimed hit.

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RESTRICTED

M. I. D., W. D.

G-2/2657-220; No. 554

11:00 A.M., November 27, 194

SITUATION REPORT

I.

Eastern Theater.

Ground: The German forces are driving hard in a northeasterly
direction north and south of Moscow. East of Tula the Germans have
reached Nikhailov and Skopin; north of Moscow they have crossed the
Moscow-Kalinin railroad southeast of Klin.
On the Orel-Kharkov front, the German advance continues
slowly.

The Germans claim to have stopped the Russian counter-

attack in the area east of Artemovsk.

Air: Yesterday's communique from Kuibyshev reported that
American and British fighter planes had gone into action on the Hoscow
front.

II.

Western Theater.

Air: The British claim to have renewed their attack on Germany
with raids on Emden and other targets in northwestern Germany. Ostend
was also bombed. Nazi raiders operated over the coast of South Wales.

III.

Middle Eastern Theater.

Ground: In Libya according to Axis communiques fighting is
continuing unabated.

The British say that heavy fighting continues in the
Rezegh area. Contact has been made between the British attacking face
and the Tobruk garrison. An Axis raid across the Egyptian frontier near
Sidi Omar has apparently been driven back. British capture of Gialo
Oasis is confirmed.

Air: The British today claimed continued air superiority
although they admit that Germany is rushing air reinforcements to this
theater.

RESTRICTED

202
TREASURY DEPARTMENT

Washington

FOR RELEASE, MORNING NEWSPAPERS,

Friday, November 28, 1941.

The Secretary of the Treasury, by this public notice,
invites tenders for $200,000,000, or thereabouts, of 91-day

Treasury bills, to be issued on a discount basis under competitive bidding. The bills of this series will be dated
December 3, 1941, and will mature March 4, 1942, when the face

amount will be payable without interest. They will be issued
in bearer form only and in denominations of 1,000, $5,000,
$10,000, $100,000 $500,000, and $1,000,000 (maturity value).
Tenders will be received at Federal Reserve Banks and

Branches uo to the closing hour, two o'clock p. m., Eastern

Standard time, Monday, December 1, 1941. Tenders will not be
received at the Treasury Department, Washington. Each tender

must be for an even multiple of $1,000, and the price offered
must be expressed on the basis of 100, with not more than three

decimals, e. g., 99.925. Fractions may not be used. It is

urged that tenders be made on the printed forms and forwarded
in the special envelopes which will be supplied by Federal
Reserve Banks or Branches on application therefor.

Tenders will be received without deposit from incorporated

banks and trust companies and from responsible and recognized

dealers in investment securities. Tenders from others must be

accompanied by payment of 10 percent of the face amount of
Treasury bills applied for, unless the tenders are accompanied
by an express guaranty of payment by an incorporated bank or
trust company.

Immediately after the closing hour, tenders will be opened

the Federal Reserve Banks and Branches, following which
at
public announcement will be made by the Secretary of the Treasury
of the amount and price range of accepted bids. Those sub-

mitting tenders will be advised of the acceptance or rejection
thereof. The Secretary of the Treasury expressly reserves the

right to accept or reject any or all tenders, in whole or in
part, and his action in any such respect shall be final. Pay-

ment of accepted tenders at the prices offered must be made or
completed at the Federal Reserve Bank in cash or other immediately
available funds on December 3, 1941, provided, however, any
qualified depositary will be permitted to make payment by credit

for Treasury bills allotted to it for itself and its customers

up to any amount for which it shall be qualified in excess Bank of
existing deposits when SO notified by the Federal Reserve

of its district.

The income derived from Treasury bills, whether interest

gain from the sale or other disposition of the bills, shall

or not have exemption, as such, and loss from the sale or other
disposition any of Treasury bills shall not have any special treat28-62

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203

ment, as such, under Federal tax Acts now or hereafter enacted.
The bills shall be subject to estate, inheritance, gift, or
other excise taxes, whether Federal or State, but shall be
exempt from all taxation now or hereafter imposed on the prin-

cipal or interest thereof by any State, or any of the possessions
of the United States, or by any local taxing authority. For
purposes of taxation the amount of discount at which Treasury
bills are originally sold by the United States shall be considered to be interest. Under Sections 42 and 117 (a) (1) of the
Internal Revenue Code, as amended by Section 115 of the Revenue

Act of 1941, the amount of discount at which bills issued hereunder are sold shall not be considered to accrue until such bills
shall be sold, redeemed or otherwise disposed of, and such bills
are excluded from consideration as capital assets. Accordingly,
the owner of Treasury bills (other than life insurance companies)
issued hereunder need include in his income tax return only the
difference between the price paid for such bills, whether on
original issue or on subsequent purchase, and the amount actually
received either upon sale or redemption at maturity during the
taxable year for which the return is made, as ordinary gain or
loss.

Treasury Department Circular No. 418, as amended, and this

notice, prescribe the terms of the Treasury bills and govern
the condition of their issue. Copies of the circular may be
obtained from any Federal Reserve Bank or Branch.

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